# Obtaining Portuguese Citizenship through descent



## swedeinus

I've googled this and found on wiki that if a child is born to a Portuguese parent in a foreign country, he/she is automatically a Portuguese citizen. But no information about children who are now adults and who did not register while under 18. I'm 31, my father is Portuguese, but I lived in Sweden my entire childhood. 

Does anyone have information about this, whether or not it's possible for me to obtain citizenship, and how to go about it. And what about my kids? 

Thanks.


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## asdrubal

Well, you are not "automatically" a portuguese citizen. You have to request your citizenship to portuguese government (see letter "c", nº 1, article 1 of Law nº 37/81). The grandchildren of portuguese nationals also have the right to portuguese citizenship, even if their parents are already dead (see nº 4 of article 6 of the same law). For the proceedings, you have to look at decree-law nº 237-A/2006. 

Unfortunately, I can't post links yet. I will try to answer any further doubts you have.


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## swedeinus

Thanks so much. I'm not quite sure how to find these laws online or elsewhere and I doubt my Portuguese will carry me through legal language. But it does seem that there is a possibility for me to obtain citizenship.
Do you know whether there are any requirements besides just descent? Does my father have to sign anything, or in any other way be contacted in the proceedings?

Are these things fairly straightforward and uncomplicated?

Who do I contact?

Thanks again.









asdrubal said:


> Well, you are not "automatically" a portuguese citizen. You have to request your citizenship to portuguese government (see letter "c", nº 1, article 1 of Law nº 37/81). The grandchildren of portuguese nationals also have the right to portuguese citizenship, even if their parents are already dead (see nº 4 of article 6 of the same law). For the proceedings, you have to look at decree-law nº 237-A/2006.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't post links yet. I will try to answer any further doubts you have.


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## asdrubal

swedeinus said:


> Thanks so much. I'm not quite sure how to find these laws online or elsewhere and I doubt my Portuguese will carry me through legal language. But it does seem that there is a possibility for me to obtain citizenship.
> Do you know whether there are any requirements besides just descent? Does my father have to sign anything, or in any other way be contacted in the proceedings?


First of all, you should contact the portuguese consulate of your area. They probably may instruct you better. 

Your father won't have to sign anything nor he will be contacted.

A few things you need:


Your birth certificate (long form), translated to portuguese and certified by the portuguese diplomatic or consular authority;
Your father's birth certificate (long form).;
Your passport or ID;
A declaration requesting your citizenship.

You can hand in your declaration at the portuguese consulate of your area or at the "Conservatória dos Registos Centrais" in Lisbon.



swedeinus said:


> Are these things fairly straightforward and uncomplicated?


It depends on many things... 



swedeinus said:


> Who do I contact?


As I said before, you should first contact the portuguese consulate or embassy in your area.


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## swedeinus

Thank you very much for the detailed info. I will be in Portugal by the end of next week so I'll probably do it all there. 

If my father doesn't need to be contacted, how do I get his birth certificate? I have a copy of the Swedish register, with his name and birth date on it, but that probably doesn't count.

For the portuguese translations and the declaration, would I need a professional translation?

Finally, not sure if this applies to your experience, but I'm wondering whether in the case of settling in Portugal, being a citizen would improve my situation any, as compared to just claiming residency based on my European citizenship. My husband is American and I think that in Portugal he would be eligible for the EEA Family Permit, which is free of charge, but as a spouse of a Portuguese citizen, he would apply for a visa, which I'm guessing costs money and takes longer. Perhaps the best route is to apply for citizenship after he's arrived, since I can imagine it takes time to process.



asdrubal said:


> First of all, you should contact the portuguese consulate of your area. They probably may instruct you better.
> 
> Your father won't have to sign anything nor he will be contacted.
> 
> A few things you need:
> 
> 
> Your birth certificate (long form), translated to portuguese and certified by the portuguese diplomatic or consular authority;
> Your father's birth certificate (long form).;
> Your passport or ID;
> A declaration requesting your citizenship.
> 
> You can hand in your declaration at the portuguese consulate of your area or at the "Conservatória dos Registos Centrais" in Lisbon.
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on many things...
> 
> 
> 
> As I said before, you should first contact the portuguese consulate or embassy in your area.


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## asdrubal

swedeinus said:


> If my father doesn't need to be contacted, how do I get his birth certificate? I have a copy of the Swedish register, with his name and birth date on it, but that probably doesn't count.


Google "portal do cidadão certidões online". There you can search for your father's birth certificate. But the site is in portuguese. You pay with credit card and receive the certificate (if they find it with the data you provide) in less than 2 weeks. But you don't need his birth certificate if you know the "Conservatória" (notary office) where he was registered, his birth date and the number and year of the registry.



swedeinus said:


> For the portuguese translations and the declaration, would I need a professional translation?


As far as I know, yes. 




swedeinus said:


> Finally, not sure if this applies to your experience, but I'm wondering whether in the case of settling in Portugal, being a citizen would improve my situation any, as compared to just claiming residency based on my European citizenship. My husband is American and I think that in Portugal he would be eligible for the EEA Family Permit, which is free of charge, but as a spouse of a Portuguese citizen, he would apply for a visa, which I'm guessing costs money and takes longer. Perhaps the best route is to apply for citizenship after he's arrived, since I can imagine it takes time to process.


I´m not entirelly aware of all portuguese law and permits , but according to the nationality law your status would be the same as someone born in Portugal child to portuguese parents. 

In Lisbon you can ask for help at "Centro Nacional de Apoio ao Imigrante (CNAI)" at Rua Álvaro Coutinho, 14, tel. 21 810 61 00.


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## swedeinus

Very helpful, thanks again. I'm trying to get resgistered online to obtain the document--I think my Portuguese is sufficient enough. 



asdrubal said:


> Google "portal do cidadão certidões online". There you can search for your father's birth certificate. But the site is in portuguese. You pay with credit card and receive the certificate (if they find it with the data you provide) in less than 2 weeks. But you don't need his birth certificate if you know the "Conservatória" (notary office) where he was registered, his birth date and the number and year of the registry.


What is the number and year of the registry? I think my mom knows the town he was born in, and of course I have the date, but not sure what the number and year means. 
If I have enough info for the Conservatoria, then I only need to submit this information along with my application?

I googled whether Portugal allows dual citizenship and someone online mentioned that an application for citizenship must go through the Embassy of the country of birth. Do you know if this is true? You mentioned that I can go to Lisbon to do this, correct? 

As far as obtaining citizenship for my sons, is there mandatory military service in Portugal? If so, how long, and is it something one can opt out of (ie claiming that one is pacifist)?

Thanks.


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## asdrubal

swedeinus said:


> If I have enough info for the Conservatoria, then I only need to submit this information along with my application?


Correct.



swedeinus said:


> I googled whether Portugal allows dual citizenship and someone online mentioned that an application for citizenship must go through the Embassy of the country of birth. Do you know if this is true? You mentioned that I can go to Lisbon to do this, correct?


No, it's not true. I may even submit the application by mail. 



swedeinus said:


> As far as obtaining citizenship for my sons, is there mandatory military service in Portugal? If so, how long, and is it something one can opt out of (ie claiming that one is pacifist)?


Military service in Portugal is no longer mandatory since 2004.


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## swedeinus

Thanks again--just what I wanted to hear



asdrubal said:


> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not true. I may even submit the application by mail.
> 
> 
> 
> Military service in Portugal is no longer mandatory since 2004.


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## swedeinus

Do you happen to know how long these applications for citizenship may take?

Also, do you know anything about applying for a spouse visa of a citizen? We applied for one for my husband in Sweden years ago, and there was no requirement to show proof of financial support (from me), but when I applied for green card, the US government required that sort of thing. 

I've tried searching the site you linked, portal da cidadao, both for EEA Permit info and spouse visa, but I wasn't able to come up with anything. Is there another site with details about visas and entry permits?

Thanks.


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## outahir

Does anybody know if one can obtain a Portuguese residence any other way? If I remember correctly, my father's grandfather was from there. Does this give me any chances? 
I'm interested in going to Portugal and would truly appreciate some info/help.

Thanks


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## michellemichelle

Hello

I wondered if you knew anymore about applying for portuguese citezenship through desent? I'm 32 and because of many difficulties and family stubborness to say the least, my dad and mom have reconcilled and he is now on my zimbabwean birth cert. I wanted to know if you thought I was too old to apply for citizenship?

Please help,

Many thanks


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## nelinha

Hi nthere, as far as I know, if you register your marriage at the Port consulate then your husband is automatically allowed to reside and go to Port as if he was a permanent resident. A new law came out awhile ago in that if a Port citizen is married for more than 3 years to a non Port citizen, you can apply for citizenship without any problems. You need marriage certificate, his passport, your Port citizen card and a letter requesting the citizenship. I will be doing it for my hubby very shortly. My sons were born in South Africa but I registered them straight away at the consulate so they have dual citizenship.


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## michellemichelle

Hello

Thank you for your response but I am enquiring about myself. I am 32 and have just had my dad added to my zimbabwean birth certificate. What I wanted to know is am I too old to apply for Portuguese nationality through desent?

My dad is originally from Madeira.

Thanks

Michelle


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## Sonho

No, you are not too old. I am going through the process as well and I am 47. My grandparents were both from Madeira but I am American.

The minimum length of time for the application is 6 months. I have been working on it for over 1 1/2 years though. They keep changing the game. Now, they want the birth certificate of my Grandfather, even though I have already provided the bc of my grandmother. They are also requesting a certified copy of my passport even though the copy of my current passport was made at one of their embassies. Finally, the criminal record from one of the countries in which I have lived wasn´t good enough so I have to get a different type. BTW, that made 6 proofs of a lack of criminal history.

There are also language requirements.


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## michellemichelle

Hi 
Thanks for replying. From all the information I have gathered from speaking to the embassies, what you're applying for is naturalisation. Through naturalisation apparently you have to have the CRB checks along with taking an exam in Portuguese. The information I've been sent from the Manchester consulate doesn't specify any of what you've told me. I'll wait and see. I just think it's so unfair to be messed about especially as we have every right to claim our ancestry.


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## acorey

Hi, 
I just got my dual Portuguese citizenship here in the USA. I wanted to leave my experience here as this site helped me piece together some of the info I needed.

My grandfather (dad's side) was born on Sao Miguel in the Azores. 

Mt first step was to gather as much information from my family as I could. I was able to get my grandfathers naturalization papers which listed Portugal as his place of birth. My grandparents marriage certificate from the church in Massachusetts. I found some census info on family tree dot com. I also gathered all of the verbally passed on family info from my father and my Uncle that I could squeeze out of them. This yielded much good intel such as my grandfathers town of birth in the Azores. I guess the moral here is get all of the documentation and info you can get your hands on first.

I then hired a genealogist in the Azores to find my grandfathers birth record form his town in the Azores. I found the genealogist on a genealogical website and after a few emails back and forth I took the plunge and paid him via pay-pal. One nice thing about Portuguese people is that they are by and large honest. So within a couple of weeks I had grandpa's birth record. A certified copy from the Arrifes town hall. It cost me $50 US.

It was only after getting all of this together that I called the Portuguese consulate here in Los Angeles for help. I spoke to the consular officer over the phone and explained to him what I wanted to do. He informed me that I could get citizenship on my own but that it would be much easier to do if MY FATHER GOT HIS FIRST. If I were to get it on my own I would be applying for citizenship and the process is difficult. You DO have to take a language test. Which is doable. But you also have to prove a connection to the Portuguese community which is vague and MUCH more difficult. The Officer explained to me that there is currently a woman in San Diego trying to get her citizenship this way. She has done everything correctly. Has letters from the curch, community groups, and friends (there is a large Portuguese community in San Diego). But this is still not enough for the people who decide this because she never lived in Portugal and doesn't have references from there. My father, BEING FIRST GENERATION IS ALREADY A CITIZEN OF PORTUGAL and simply had to register all of our family info to claim this.
NO TEST, NO PROOF OF CONNECTION TO COMMUNITY.

Fortunately for me, my father is still alive and was willing to do this. We had to register (with Portugal) my grandparents marriage and deaths. My parents marriage. And then me.
Basically, you are documenting lineage. My father IS a Portuguese citizen as the child of a national. Once he registers his identity and circumstances with Portugal. I am then the child of a national. So I am already a citizen. No Test. Nothing. Simply register Myself.

What we ended up needing ;
Grandparents birth marriage and death certificates. 
My parents birth and marriage certificates.
My birth certificate.

(The other documents help prove legitimacy to the consul and the more the better)

For me some of this was difficult to get. Especially as I am on the west coast and my Family is on the east coast of the USA. Luckily for me My father was keen to do this as well and really helped a lot. I paid for everything but he made trips to town halls and his local consulate to acquire and register all of the information. Also he has a gift for dealing with people in bureaucratic offices. He charmed the pants off of the ladies at the Rhode Island Portuguese consulate.

It took us about two months and US$1100 to accomplish this. We now have our Portuguese Birth Certificates. 

I am getting my Portuguese ID and Passport next here in LA. It will take a few more months and cost between US$200 and $400 to accomplish. The Consular Officer told me exactly what documentation to bring so this should require two visits to the Consul for me.

I do not have a Portuguese name or speak fluent Portuguese.

If I could give some advice;

1. Have your stuff together as much as possible. The Consul is not there to do the work for you. Show respect by putting the work in.

2. Be patient and polite. LISTEN. And take notes when you speak to them. No one likes to have their time wasted.

3. Don't panic if you hit an obstacle. Think, and diligently work through or around the problem. 

4. Think about what you say BEFORE you say it and speak as clearly as possible. 

5. BE POLITE. Most people in a bureaucracy are willing to help someone with a good attitude that makes doing their job as easy as possible for them. Remember, they just have forms and files to fill. It's your job to give them the stuff to put in. And they don't make the rules or have any way to bend them, so never give them any grief over an obstacle you run into. It's your problem, not theirs. 

Additionally, Anyone familiar with Portuguese culture knows that family comes first. I often used the term "My Family" instead of "ME" and "we" instead of "I". If you want a Portuguese person on your side, let them know you are trying to do something for your family. And thank them on behalf of your family. This is respected more than the idea that you just want EU citizenship. I am glad to have EU citizenship but I truly wanted to restore something I felt that we lost when we came to the US. Though I was born in the US and am thankful for that, I was raised around my Portuguese relatives and love the culture. And the food! My ancestors came here because they were poor. Not because they didn't like Portugal. Restoring our citizenship, for me, is a way of getting back something that was lost, and honoring my ancestors struggle. I think I was able to get this across to the Consular officers and they were very good to us.

I hope this helps someone and Good luck!

AC


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## swedeinus

Thanks for sharing your story. 

My, that sounds like a lot of money just to register your citizenship. However, definitely worth it if you're from a non-European country. 

I already have a EU passport so if it's that expensive I'd probably not go for it, at least not anytime soon. I do have contact with my dad and his relatives there, albeit somewhat sporadic, so getting paperwork would be easy. 

The passport will cost you an additional $200-400? A Swedish one is $50.

Congratulations on your Portuguese citizenship! Are you planning on moving there?


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## acorey

You are welcome.

It seems expensive but it was all just the fees for filing each document. 

It was around US$90each. So to register My Grandparents (Birth, Death, Marriage), My Parents (Birth, Marriage), and myself it added up quickly. Just to get to this point That's at least 10 documents/forms/etc.. 

The $200-$400 estimate is for both the ID and the Passport. Estimates only. I will post the actual cost after I'm through.

I am planning to visit as soon as possible. I would love to move there in the future if My girlfriend is willing. 

I am fond of the expression that- Success is when preparation meets opportunity. Getting My ID and Passport is just that. If I travel to Portugal and like what I find, I will be all ready to take action. If I want to stay, I can just stay..

Thanks,

AC


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## Waterdog

Question. What is citizenship as opposed to domicile status, residency or nationality? And what extra benefits/responsibilities does it carry?


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## acorey

Hi Waterdog,

Not sure if you are asking me but,

I meant Citizenship as synonymous with Nationality. In my case it means I am a citizen or national of the USA and of Portugal. 

To me The benefits are a return of my rightful heritage, The ability to open a Portuguese bank account or stay in Portugal or the rest of the EU as long as I like with no visa required. Also the right to work in 27 more countries than I was able to a few months ago is pretty dope. I can use my Portuguese passport to travel more safely in countries that hate the US (which is pretty much all of them thanks to G.W. Bush and our kind and generous corporations).

I have also made this easier for my brothers and sisters and their children to do if they choose to pursue it. 

As far as responsibilities, nothing has changed for me. If I was in Portugal or the USA I still have to uphold the laws citizen or not. Due to taxation treaties, I would pay taxes in whichever country I was living in full time. If I moved to Portugal, I would still have to file in the US, but only pay in Portugal. 

Not sure if this answers your questions...

AC


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## Surfin USA

This opens a whole bag of worms. How do we work out what we really are?

Think I am American domicile/national, resident in the UK (I pay taxes in both countries) but citizenship? Well just not sure? Is it where I am currently living or where I originate from?


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## Waterdog

Thank you acorey.

Your answer & surfin's follow up fill me with curiosity because it is my impression from previous discussions in these forums that there are many perceptions of these differing conditions, which are based on individual circumstances.

But each term: nationality, domicile status, residency & citizenship, must have a specific definition & carry both privileges & responsibilities, possibly moral, certainly legal.

Hope I have got my thoughts across lucidly.

Possibly this should form a new thread, because unless we know what these terms mean how can we know what status is in our best interests?

What do you think?

After my recent 'What kind of Expat' thread I hesitate to embark on another blood letting session!

Woof


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## canoeman

Then why ask the question/, it's an individuals choice, if they actually have that choice in the first place.


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## acorey

You are welcome Waterdog,

It is each of our responsibility to do the research for the countries of interest.

Before seeking Portuguese nationality I did just that. I didn't want any surprises like an unexpected tax bill, or a request to serve compulsory military service. 
In my search I found many contradictory opinions and a surprising array of moral views in the subject of dual nationality here in the US. All I care about is the legal facts of the matter. 

The United States does not have any laws against multiple Nationality and you cannot lose ones US nationality by adopting another. Even if you make a sworn statement disavowing other nationality in the process of obtaining your new one. This has been upheld by the supreme court of the United States. The only way to lose ones US nationality is to officially declare it in a sworn statement for that sole purpose.

Portugal has no laws against multiple citizenship either. Similarly, one cannot lose ones Portuguese nationality. Which is why I was able get my citizenship easily. By emigrating to the US, my grandfather never lost his Portuguese nationality. My father is, by default, a Portuguese National as the child of one. In spite of the fact that he's never set foot in Portugal. It was simply a matter of proving his lineage, and registering his status. Which then opened the door for me.

I see that you are from the UK and there may be different interpretations of the terms we use between "American" and "British" English .

citizenship
[sit-uh-zuhn-ship, -suhn-]   Origin

cit·i·zen·ship
   [sit-uh-zuhn-ship, -suhn-] 
noun
1.
the state of being vested with the rights, privileges, and duties of a citizen.
2.
the character of an individual viewed as a member of society; behavior in terms of the duties, obligations, and functions of a citizen: an award for good citizenship.

na·tion·al·i·ty/ˌnaSHəˈnalitē/
Noun:	

The status of belonging to a particular nation.
Distinctive national or ethnic character: "the change of a name does not discard nationality".

I guess I have been a bit loose with my terms. Strictly speaking, I probably should have only used the term "Nationality". Here in the US we (or perhaps just me) treat then as synonyms but they really aren't.
I should have been more careful with my words.

@surfinusa- I guess that makes you a US National and a citizen whatever city you reside in.

Ultimately it only matters what the law is in a persons particular situation. It's on them to learn what that is. 

A new thread is probably overkill. We might be better served by me learning to use the proper terms for things I am trying to write about.

In my defense, The common term here in the US is "Dual Citizen", not "Dual National". So... I am going to blame the system on this one...


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## Waterdog

_Then why ask the question/, it's an individuals choice, if they actually have that choice in the first place._

canoeman Who are you directing you apparent score at – moi? And, as sometimes happens, do not understand your banter? What do you mean? 

Domicile status for one, is normally clearly defined & if challenged in the UK normally settled by the courts on a case by case basis, often after the subject is deceased. Hardly that individual's choice.

Residency is another matter – within certain bounds, very much an individual’s choice & not necessarily the same as that individual's domicile status.

I believe nationality is a matter of parentage & possibly place of birth - not much choice there.

Whereas citizenship is the place where you choice to eke see out your days - totally your choice.

All this can have both short & long term implications but I believe we may have been here before?


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## Waterdog

Acorey Thank you very much for sharing all of your research.

Think this must be the definitive answer, which closes this subject out.

Bottom line, background, circumstances, location & aspiration makes everyone a unique case, who must research his or her own solution.

From my experience in the US, many Americans hanker after their original roots.

Best of luck when you get back to your old country.


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## anapedrosa

I also have dual citizenship, Canadian-Portuguese. I was lucky that though I was born in Canada, my mother registered my birth in Lisbon. My path was much easier, I went to the local consulate with my passport and birth certificate and completed an application. Within 6 months I had an identify card and a Portuguese passport. I will need to go through some additional steps for my daughter who has asked that I help her to get her Portuguese citizenship.

On the subject of rights and taxes, there are a few differences that one needs to be aware of with dual citizenship. As a Portuguese citizen in Portugal, my Portuguese citizenship takes precedence i the eyes of the law. For example, with estate planning in Portugal there are rules for inheritance of the family home that you can not change with a will. If I was a Canadian resident in Portugal they would respect my Canadian will, but as a Portuguese citizen Portuguese law applies. 

In terms of taxes, it may be different for the US, but the Canadian-Portuguese tax treaty (as most) is intended to avoid double taxation. When I move to Portugal I will pay taxes in Canada on my Canadian income (15% for non-residents) and will complete a Portuguese tax form in which I will have to declare my 'world income', I then get a credit for taxes I paid in Canada.

A question was asked on this thread about non-Portuguese spouses. My Canadian spouse will need to apply for a visa before we go. Once we are in Portugal we will apply for his residency under the Family reunification act. He will need to have his police check to get the visa (I did not need one).


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## lowellao

*Portugese Nationality.*



swedeinus said:


> I've googled this and found on wiki that if a child is born to a Portuguese parent in a foreign country, he/she is automatically a Portuguese citizen. But no information about children who are now adults and who did not register while under 18. I'm 31, my father is Portuguese, but I lived in Sweden my entire childhood.
> 
> Does anyone have information about this, whether or not it's possible for me to obtain citizenship, and how to go about it. And what about my kids?
> 
> Thanks.


Dear Swedeinus
My son well over 18 obtained his Portuguese Citizenship when his Mother a Portuguese Citizen applied with him. If you visit/communicate with the Embassy/Counsel in your area they will explain the procedure as they apply to your/your father's situation.

Regards,


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## canoeman

"I believe nationality is a matter of parentage & possibly place of birth - not much choice there.

Whereas citizenship is the place where you choice to eke see out your days - totally your choice."

Nationality your correct and a person might well have dual nationality, because of place of birth or parents.

But I believe your confusing Residency with Citizenship, you can choose to be Resident in Portugal providing you fulfill criteria, it doesn't give you the same rights as a Portuguese National or citizen.
Taking up Citizenship is a very different decision and process, and is called in Portuguese AQUISIÇÃO DE NACIONALIDADE PORTUGUESA, acquiring Portuguese Nationality.


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## siobhanwf

you might like to have a look at this other thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...-portuguese-citizenship-through-ancestry.html


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## Sonho

Swede, A PT passport is EUR70. The ID card is about $US120.

Acorey, you're a good person to write all of that. Much better than me! I got my citizenship this past summer. It was a solid 3 years of work. Of course, I moved to three different countries in that time so that didn't help. I have to say that the Latvians at the PT embassy in Riga were a godsend!


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## SmOrg

*My current experience*

Hi everyone,

I just started following this thread because I am here right now trying to sort out my Portuguese nationality. My mother was Portuguese, father British. I have made many journeys to immigration et cetera to have reached my current standstill.

Apparently I have to have my Father's Birth Certificate and my Mother and Father's Marriage Certificate legalised by way of the Portuguese Consulate in Great Britain. Also I need them translated to Portuguese along with my Birth Certificate. Okay, now what I am wondering is why I need to go to the Embassy in London to have this done. Surely it could be done from Lisbon. I simply can't afford to fly to England, present documents, or send precious documents in the post just to have them validated in this way.

Does anyone know if I can get these documents legalised here in Lisbon? It would make sense that the British Embassy could do it here but I have been on some merry wild goose chases up until now, attempting to get myself registered. 

Any leads would be greatly appreciated.


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## Sonho

SmOrg, there is no reason you need to go to London. I had to have apostilled copies but all it took were phone calls, money and some patience waiting for it to arrive by post.


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## SmOrg

Sonho said:


> SmOrg, there is no reason you need to go to London. I had to have apostilled copies but all it took were phone calls, money and some patience waiting for it to arrive by post.


Thanks Sonho,

I emailed the Portuguese Consular General in London, and got quick reply that, yes, I could do it at the embassy here. So have booked myself an appointment.

SmOrg


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## brevity

*Learning this Process*

Hi 
I just found this thread and am grateful it exists....wish I found it a few hours or days ago...got frustrated with the person at the consulate...

So in my case, my grandmother registered her children at the local church...is that right or should I be looking somewhere else. When my mother went to the Azores she saw she had been recorded, even though she was born in the US. So she decided to record her children and told me she had done that.

Now I need to renew my passport and I have been asked to get dual citizenship so I can go with her to stay for extended periods of time if needed. She is not well and wants to return and we feel she should have one of us who is able to stay if needed and that means me as I am single and have no children.

What I am coming to understand is I can renew my US passport and keep it for 12 years...I don't have to surrender it when this dual citizenship comes in.

I did not know that. So I have my grandmothers Portuguese birth certificate and my mothers US birth certificate. I am told that my mother is registered and when she obtained her first passport they automatically gave her a dual citizenship passport. When I asked to get myself a dual passport they said I need my mothers Portuguese birth certificate....she was born in the US....so do I write to the church in the town of my grandmother?

Also my mother said she registered her children when she was there last....like 5 years ago or maybe more. Should I ask if there is a birth record for me? 

From earlier posts being registered is an important step and if my mother got her passport automatically as a dual citizen then it is very likely she is officially registered. 

My mother is still alive, what should I get from her. She never had to go through this and doesn't know what I need. The consulate says I need her Portuguese birth record. Cant I just use her passport info...does her passport have her place of registry?


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## Sonho

brevity said:


> Hi
> I just found this thread and am grateful it exists....wish I found it a few hours or days ago...got frustrated with the person at the consulate...
> 
> So in my case, my grandmother registered her children at the local church...is that right or should I be looking somewhere else. When my mother went to the Azores she saw she had been recorded, even though she was born in the US. So she decided to record her children and told me she had done that.
> 
> Now I need to renew my passport and I have been asked to get dual citizenship so I can go with her to stay for extended periods of time if needed. She is not well and wants to return and we feel she should have one of us who is able to stay if needed and that means me as I am single and have no children.
> 
> What I am coming to understand is I can renew my US passport and keep it for 12 years...I don't have to surrender it when this dual citizenship comes in.
> 
> I did not know that. So I have my grandmothers Portuguese birth certificate and my mothers US birth certificate. I am told that my mother is registered and when she obtained her first passport they automatically gave her a dual citizenship passport. When I asked to get myself a dual passport they said I need my mothers Portuguese birth certificate....she was born in the US....so do I write to the church in the town of my grandmother?
> 
> Also my mother said she registered her children when she was there last....like 5 years ago or maybe more. Should I ask if there is a birth record for me?
> 
> From earlier posts being registered is an important step and if my mother got her passport automatically as a dual citizen then it is very likely she is officially registered.
> 
> My mother is still alive, what should I get from her. She never had to go through this and doesn't know what I need. The consulate says I need her Portuguese birth record. Cant I just use her passport info...does her passport have her place of registry?


Hi Brevity, 
If your mother registered your birth, the only thing you should need is a Certidão do registo de nascimento which the consulate can order for you (EUR20). If she hasn't registered your birth officially, you will need her Certidão do registo de nascimento and your birth certificate (apostilled). You cannot use her passport or identity card information unfortunately. I just tried using mine last week for my children's passports and it was a no go. I am still fuming as the PT Consulate in the US told me that the Certidão do registo de nascimento was unnecessary and from now on, the ID card would be all that was necessary. If anyone tells you that, don't believe it and keep the certificate!
Good luck!

ETA: Brevity, I just noticed that you are in FL. I finished the process (for me) at the Consulate in Orlando. Very nice man, but he was the one who misinformed me on the need to keep the Certidão do registo de nascimento. Just a heads up! I am now in the process for my children in Prague.


----------



## acorey

brevity said:


> Hi
> I just found this thread and am grateful it exists....wish I found it a few hours or days ago...got frustrated with the person at the consulate...
> 
> So in my case, my grandmother registered her children at the local church...is that right or should I be looking somewhere else. When my mother went to the Azores she saw she had been recorded, even though she was born in the US. So she decided to record her children and told me she had done that.
> 
> Now I need to renew my passport and I have been asked to get dual citizenship so I can go with her to stay for extended periods of time if needed. She is not well and wants to return and we feel she should have one of us who is able to stay if needed and that means me as I am single and have no children.
> 
> What I am coming to understand is I can renew my US passport and keep it for 12 years...I don't have to surrender it when this dual citizenship comes in.
> 
> I did not know that. So I have my grandmothers Portuguese birth certificate and my mothers US birth certificate. I am told that my mother is registered and when she obtained her first passport they automatically gave her a dual citizenship passport. When I asked to get myself a dual passport they said I need my mothers Portuguese birth certificate....she was born in the US....so do I write to the church in the town of my grandmother?
> 
> Also my mother said she registered her children when she was there last....like 5 years ago or maybe more. Should I ask if there is a birth record for me?
> 
> From earlier posts being registered is an important step and if my mother got her passport automatically as a dual citizen then it is very likely she is officially registered.
> 
> My mother is still alive, what should I get from her. She never had to go through this and doesn't know what I need. The consulate says I need her Portuguese birth record. Cant I just use her passport info...does her passport have her place of registry?


Brevity,

You are talking about different things here all jumbled together.

If you, or your parents were registered at a church that does not mean there is an official birth certificate for you/them.

Just like in the US. A baptismal record or church document means nothing to the IRS etc... Though it does help establish lineage and is used as evidence to establish identity. Along with sworn affidavits and other corroborating evidence.

The question is; Does anyone (You, Your parents, Your grand parents) Have an official Portuguese Birth Certificate? NOT A CHURCH RECORD.

If the answer is yes, then you just have to work from there. Recording births and deaths using official documents. Like American death certificates and birth certificates. You must make sure the BC is updated with children, marriages, and deaths as the case may be.

If the answer is no, then you must start with the last person born in Portugal and get an official Portuguese Birth Certificate created for them. Using church records and whatever else you can get to establish identity. Then create Portuguese BC's for the next generation and then yourself. (assuming you started with your great grandparents) Children, marriages, and deaths are all recorded on the birth certificates.

Your American passport has nothing to do with any of this.
Your American Birth Certificate is only used to establish identity. ( they will want official copies)

When someone at a foreign consulate asks for a "birth certificate" or "Passport", try to remember where you are. They are talking about documents from their country. Otherwise they would specify "American Passport" or "American BC". 
Once they can ID you with their own system they will almost never ask for foreign (to them) documentation. 

If your Mother has a Portuguese Passport, then there should be a Portuguese BC for her. But remember that Portugal only recently modernized so maybe not. But it should not be difficult to get one made for her, and then you. 

It really sounds to me like your Mother needs to go to the consulate and have everything updated. She can get a BC created for you then. Once you have the Official Portuguese Birth Certificate, it is fairly straight foreword. You get a PORTUGUESE ID next. Then a PORTUGUESE PASSPORT.

Good Luck!


----------



## acorey

TO ALL,

Portugal considers a Birth Certificate to be a transitory document. 

It doesn't just record your birth. They record all of the major things that happen to you on it as an addendum. So you got born, got married, had kids, died. All on one document.

As opposed to, say, here in the U.S. where it only records your birth.

So, If you are trying to get Portuguese citizenship/nationality, *All birth certificates of the relevant line between you and your last ancestor actually born in Portugal need to be up to date.*

In Most cases you are going back many years before Portugal was modernized.
YES you will be dealing with church records.
YES you will be dealing with immigration documentation.
Yes you will be dealing with official documentation from your current country.
YES you will be dealing with your weird old aunts stories.

NO These are not Portuguese Birth Certificates.

Up to you to go submit the forms and supporting documents to Update/create OFFICIAL PORTUGUESE BIRTH CERTIFICATES for the involved parties.

If your goal is a Portuguese Passport, The right to live/work in Portugal, The right to live/work in Europe. Here are the three steps;

1. Update/receive PORTUGUESE Birth certificate.
2. Receive PORTUGUESE ID
3. (AND THIS IS OPTIONAL) Receive PORTUGUESE Passport.

There are other threads here that I have posted LITERALLY all of the info that you need. So poke around here, get armed with info, and get it done.

It really isn't all that difficult if you truly qualify. Even if the relevant ancestors are no longer with us. If you are second generation, it can be done.

I spent few months and about $1000 to get my father's and my BC's, ID's and Passports. 

Good Luck and God Speed!

AC


----------



## brevity

*Conservatoria vs Biblioteca*

Well they were all jumbled in my head...so it came out that way.

The biggest thing that I did not know was that I could keep my US passport. It is going to cost me 110 dollars and I didnt want to have to surrender that and waste that money. I wil have to pay 453 to the consulate once I have all the documents I need. I would like to just get the one passport and save 110 if I can. 

I am researching and learning and sometimes the words get confusing. Like Birth Certificate and Birth Record. I dont need to start with my grandmother or grandfather because I have theirs. And my mother has her citizenship. 

My mother said she recorded her children at the Parrish. Parrish in Lousiana means county and likely means the county building in Portugal as well. When I was told the local Parrish, I thought Church but now I believe she meant the local county office.

In my research, there are two place to write to get Birth Records, the Biblioteca or the Conservatoria. My grandmothers Birth Record says Conservatoria on the Top.
I have both addresses and read that is will require an 18 dollar money order. I will probably start with the Conservatoria. The consulate said all I need is my mothers Portuguese Birth Record. My research indicates Birth Records are kept at the library but I think now that it may be the really old records are kept there. Like before 1940.

My mother was born in 1934 and WWll was in 1936 and they had a pretty extensive draft system so I am fairly certain that the records are detailed and current begining with the 1940s. It seems likely my grandmother did not travel back to Portugal until after the war following my mothers birth for her to be recorded.

I am thinking when you go to get a passport you have to show your birth certificate. when my mother got her passport she must have shown her BC. On everyones BC it shows each parent and the location of their birth, city, state and country. It clearly says St Michael, Portugal on my mothers for each parent.

My thoughts are would that have been all she needed....is it possible she could have gotten her dual citizenship without anything more than her US BC which states her parental lineage. Is it possible she does not have a Portuguese Birth Record....or is it not possible and I can safely assume she has one she just doesnt physically have it in her possession...but it can be ordered from the local Parrish Conservatoria.

I will try to research how to create/update then obtain the Portuguese Birth Record of someone else on their behalf. I dont think my mother will be able to do it since she doesnt seem to understand why it is not so easy for me to just go to the consulate and get my dual citizenship.

The things we do for our mothers....Happy Mother's Day Mom...I do love you.


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## anapedrosa

Brevity,

My mother registered my birth in Portugal and when I went to the consulate, I did not have to produce any of my parent's documentation. I had my birth certificate (born in Montreal) and my Canadian passport. None of the documents I produced showed my parents birthplace. Apparently, my mom saved me a lot of trouble by registering my birth. 

Good luck either way. 

Ana


----------



## acorey

brevity said:


> Hi
> I just found this thread and am grateful it exists....wish I found it a few hours or days ago...got frustrated with the person at the consulate...
> 
> So in my case, my grandmother registered her children at the local church...is that right or should I be looking somewhere else. When my mother went to the Azores she saw she had been recorded, even though she was born in the US. So she decided to record her children and told me she had done that.
> 
> Now I need to renew my passport and I have been asked to get dual citizenship so I can go with her to stay for extended periods of time if needed. She is not well and wants to return and we feel she should have one of us who is able to stay if needed and that means me as I am single and have no children.
> 
> What I am coming to understand is I can renew my US passport and keep it for 12 years...I don't have to surrender it when this dual citizenship comes in.
> 
> I did not know that. So I have my grandmothers Portuguese birth certificate and my mothers US birth certificate. I am told that my mother is registered and when she obtained her first passport they automatically gave her a dual citizenship passport. When I asked to get myself a dual passport they said I need my mothers Portuguese birth certificate....she was born in the US....so do I write to the church in the town of my grandmother?
> 
> Also my mother said she registered her children when she was there last....like 5 years ago or maybe more. Should I ask if there is a birth record for me?
> 
> From earlier posts being registered is an important step and if my mother got her passport automatically as a dual citizen then it is very likely she is officially registered.
> 
> My mother is still alive, what should I get from her. She never had to go through this and doesn't know what I need. The consulate says I need her Portuguese birth record. Cant I just use her passport info...does her passport have her place of registry?


OK Brevity, Here's the deal,

You write that you have your grand mother's Portuguese BC.
That will have to be updated with her marriage, children, and death. As applicable.

You then will have to find your mothers Portuguese BC and update it with Her life info. i.e. marriage, children etc...

If your Mother does not have a Portuguese BC (Which is very likely) then you will have to have one created for her and then updated with her relevant info. i.e. birth, marriage, children.

None of this turns out to be that big of a deal. It is a little time consuming. I did it and my grandfather never had a Portuguese BC. He was born in 1909. I had to get notarized copies of his parish records from the Azores.

You should not have to do this. If there is a valid Portuguese BC for your Gran, then the consulate will accept the supporting American documents to verify the births, marriages, and deaths of subsequent ancestors. 

It sounds like you might have to register your Grand Parents Marriage as I had to. And register their deaths. As I had to. 

Then you either update your Mom's BC if you find it, or have one created and then record her marriage, children.

Then you do Yours.

Then you get your ID

Then you get your Passport. You don't necessarily need a Portuguese passport.
If you have an ID that is enough. You can stay in PT on that as long as you like.
Or do anything else a citizen can do...

Best of luck..


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## brevity

yeah, you know I was just thinking of that....my mother is really the best one to do this...I was thinking I needed to do it for her, but she wants it and being older she would get respect from the people working at the consulate...and she can speak portuguese. 

I think I am going to sell her on the idea...let her know it is very important to me and how she is the best one for the job.


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## canoeman

Dual citizenship and dual passports are useful in that it makes it a easier moving around the world. For example on a Portuguese Passport you can move freely within the EU, on an American you can't, if you wan't to enter US easy on an American Passport more difficult on a Portuguese, so overall saving $110 is soon lost.

You really want the Conservatoria as that is the Portuguese National Registration Centre for everything. Instituto dos Registos e Notariado: Cidadãos


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## MRohde

My mother's father was born in Portugal and I have been collecting information for her so she can apply for citizenship. I have a simple question - when I obtain copies of her US records (birth certificate, etc.) will I need to get an Apostille seal for them? I didn't see this mentioned in the older discussions.


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## JOKERSTAR212

Hi All.. Can any1 give some good addvice?? Im 31 yrs old have a wife and we have a 2 yr old child were from Ireland looking to find home somewhere in Europe [ANYWHERE] warm somewhat safe and hopefully the language NOT 2 much of a problem. were looking 2 buy maybe a site/plot of land and hopefully build in time. 50k euro is about all we have 2 work with and that includes buying their.. anything would be great i.e countries/island that would be a better way of life for the 3 of us.. Many Thanks
Mark


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## canoeman

For Portugal 50K€ is not enough to realistically buy anything you could afford to build on, rebuild or renovate, it would be enough to rent and cover expenses in the short term but employment is near enough impossible to find unless you have a specific reguired skill and the language, which is one of the harder European ones to learn.


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## MRohde

MRohde said:


> My mother's father was born in Portugal and I have been collecting information for her so she can apply for citizenship. I have a simple question - when I obtain copies of her US records (birth certificate, etc.) will I need to get an Apostille seal for them? I didn't see this mentioned in the older discussions.


Also, in addition to this question, should I have English-language documents like birth certificates translated into Portuguese?


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## anapedrosa

MRohde said:


> Also, in addition to this question, should I have English-language documents like birth certificates translated into Portuguese?


 I haven't gone back to check the thread - did you say whether you would be applying in NJ or in Portugal. I usually go to the PT consulate in Ottawa and they accept English documents. If you go in Portugal I suspect they will want translations. Our consulate here is very helpful when I drop in and ask questions.

oh - and I did not need an Apostille for anything, but my situation is different than yours as my parents were born in PT.


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## MRohde

anapedrosa said:


> I haven't gone back to check the thread - did you say whether you would be applying in NJ or in Portugal. I usually go to the PT consulate in Ottawa and they accept English documents. If you go in Portugal I suspect they will want translations. Our consulate here is very helpful when I drop in and ask questions.
> 
> oh - and I did not need an Apostille for anything, but my situation is different than yours as my parents were born in PT.


We would be applying through the consulate in New York City. If the Ottowa consulate accepted English documents then I would imagine the NY one will also, but I suspect I will need to get the Apostille. I suppose I should just contact the consulate but I don't want to annoy them with questions that may turn out to be obvious!


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## JOKERSTAR212

canoeman said:


> For Portugal 50K€ is not enough to realistically buy anything you could afford to build on, rebuild or renovate, it would be enough to rent and cover expenses in the short term but employment is near enough impossible to find unless you have a specific reguired skill and the language, which is one of the harder European ones to learn.


Thanks for getting bk on that and i share it what you say i was just hoping some1 would come up an say yes theirs a place i.e somewher in Europe where you can maybe fullfill what i could afford right now, because Ireland right now is a no go 4 me and my family.. Do you think i could do it anywhere on your knowledge anywher at all besides home [Ireland] 50K euro is all we have if even, and both me and my wife only have half of our qual me 2 yrs electrician and my wife 2 yrs hairdressing, i know it dont help but your advice i know and any1 eles will and greatly apprecat...

Many Thanks


----------



## lucastamatea

*Link to Portuguese Community?*

Hi there, 
My mother will apply for citizenship through her grandfather who was a Portuguese citizen. I've read through all the requirements on-line and don't see anything about proving a link to the Portuguese community. Is that written down somewhere? Seems like an extremely vague and frustrating requirement.
Thanks very much


----------



## brownindian

acorey said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> It seems expensive but it was all just the fees for filing each document.
> 
> It was around US$90each. So to register My Grandparents (Birth, Death, Marriage), My Parents (Birth, Marriage), and myself it added up quickly. Just to get to this point That's at least 10 documents/forms/etc..
> 
> The $200-$400 estimate is for both the ID and the Passport. Estimates only. I will post the actual cost after I'm through.
> 
> I am planning to visit as soon as possible. I would love to move there in the future if My girlfriend is willing.
> 
> I am fond of the expression that- Success is when preparation meets opportunity. Getting My ID and Passport is just that. If I travel to Portugal and like what I find, I will be all ready to take action. If I want to stay, I can just stay..
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> AC


Dear Acorey
My parents were Portuguese citizens born in Goa, Estada da India and I was born in East Africa. I am now living in Hong Kong and would like your help as i am planning to apply at the embassy here.
1. When you say have all your stuff together - does it mean i have to go the consulate with my parents, mine and child's birth certificates all together?
2. Does the consulate register all the births, deaths, marriage in the embassy or do you have to do it personally in crc,lisbon.
3. do you know anyone in portugal who can register for me ? or does the consulate do it?
4. did you need a police clearance certificate and did you need to translate your birth certificates to portuguese?
5. did you need to attest any of your documents? and if so does the embassy do it for you?

I would really apprecaite your help and advise in this matter.

Thanks and Regards
BI


----------



## acorey

Hi brownindian,

1. When you say have all your stuff together - does it mean i have to go the consulate with my parents, mine and child's birth certificates all together?

If you could do this, it would be ideal. Register everybody at once. Bring your BC and theirs. If your parents already have proof of Portuguese citizenship you are golden.
If not bring your Grandparents info. Register your parents first, then their marriage, then you.

2. Does the consulate register all the births, deaths, marriage in the embassy or do you have to do it personally in crc,lisbon.

I did mine at the consulate here in the states no problem. Don't know about the consulate in Hong Kong, I would imagine that they do though..

3. do you know anyone in portugal who can register for me ? or does the consulate do it?

I do not know anyone in Portugal, but you shouldn't need that anyway.

4. did you need a police clearance certificate and did you need to translate your birth certificates to portuguese?

No and No. But I do not know if the rules are any different in Hong Kong. The forms are in Portuguese but the people at the consulate were happy to help fill them out.

Note: This is personal opinion, but I feel that this is what I meant about having your stuff together. The folks at the consulate are there to help Portuguese citizens. If your Parents are citizens, then so are you. If you have your documentation together and they can see this, they will know you are not trying to be dishonest and trick them. It is their job to help you. And they will.

5. did you need to attest any of your documents? and if so does the embassy do it for you?

No. All of my documentation was officially released by my state and federal government. (Birth Certificate and Social Security ID) Or corroborated by such. It was really no trouble. In fact, I got a call from the consulate from the lady looking over my info. She didn't see a way to prove that the man on the birth record from the Azores was the same man as my grandfather. But then I asked her to look at the death certificate I had also provided and all of the names were there. That was enough for her and we were done.

Note: Here in the stated a lot of consulates want an official release of a birth certificate with some official stamp on it that costs an extra sixty bucks. The Portuguese consulate did not require this. In fact, I was told that if there was any question about any documentation, or there was documentation missing, We could just sign an affidavit swearing to the fact. (An affidavit is a legal document here in the states that basically means that you really, really promise something is true. In case you don't know.) So all in all, I would say that the Portuguese consulate is pretty easy to deal with.

Remember, If your situation is legit, then there is nothing to worry about. If your parent, or parents is/are a Portuguese citizen, then you are too. It is your right to register and have an ID, and a passport if you want. The only problem will be if you don't have the documentation to prove you are a citizen. Which is understandable. Proving that is not the consulates job. 

All the best and I wish you the best of luck!

acorey


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## brownindian

Hi Acorey
I just to-day found my father's certificate of naturalisation as British citizen wherein his nationality is given as portuguese. Also my grandmother and grandfather's names and nationality are there in that document.
Since he was in East Africa, and I was born there, I was a British citizen till Idi Amin came and we went back to India as refugees. Hence I now have Indian citizenship and am a HK PR and in Hong Kong (HK) for last 20 odd years.
I have some documents here and some must be with my brother in India, I hope it works for me. I have my father's and mother's original birth certificate, but it was registered in the CRC at Goa. So I too have go through the whole process of registering my father and mother's birth, marriage and death certificates and then mine and then my marriage and then my daughter.

Also since my birth certificate is from Uganda, and I have no contact there, I caanot give them a recent one. IS there a way out for this issue? Also did your Dad have to collect all recent certificates? LAos please can you give me the geneology website so I can look up if my Dad's BC is there.

We need to go the Macau consulate, so I shall be emailing them first . Just wondering whether I collect everything first or ask them first as too much money and time to go to India and then return .After reading in this forum (which is very helpful and I am very grateful to one and all). I think different consulates deal with it differently.

Please I am addressing it to AC, but please respond to this if you can give me any advise.
Muit obrigado (going to learn now, my Dad used to speak fluent portuguese)


----------



## brownindian

Hi Smorg
Did everythiing go snoothly at the ambassy or did you have to translation too? How long did the whole process take?
Thanks & Regards.


----------



## acorey

Hi again brownindian,

I found a guy in the Azores, where my grandfather is from to get a copy of his birth record from the parish of his town. It would be best to locate a genealogist close to where your parents record is likely to be. But depending on how long ago it was, there may not be a birth certificate for your parents. You could check with the consulate to see of PT has any record of him already. Probably not though.. So you would need a genealogist or someone near the town to get a birth record from the church that baptized them.. But you probably don't need this if you have an official immigration document stating that they were from Portugal. It is also good that both of their names are on it. And their marital status.

It's really tough to say what you need. My grand father came over in 1914 so there wasn't a lot of paperwork. The consulate wasn't expecting a lot either it seemed. It is common for names to change (as in our case) and there was no good record keeping system until recently.

If you read my original posts on the matter all of the info is there. In short, you need birth certificates. If your father didn't have one, it's not the end of the world. You just have to prove who he was and get one made for him. I used my grand father's naturalization papers, his death certificate,and his birth record. To be honest, I think the birth record may not have been needed. Plus, in my case, the naturalization papers had both versions of our name on it so that helped a lot.

So- again- if there are no birth certificates for your parents, then you need to get them made. An immigration document will probably be good enough to get started with... Then you need their marriage certificates (or what ever proof they use from the country they were married in). Their marriage is added as an event that happened as an addendum onto the birth certificate. (don't ask me why- that's just how they do it...) If your parents have passed, then you will need to submit death certificates too..Then you add yourself on to your parents bc as a child they had. Then you get a bc of your own. That's the order it goes in..

Stay focused on just providing reasonable proof of your claim. You are just proving lineage really. That you dad is who you say he is and from where you say he is. And then creating an official paper trail of that.. Keep in mind that the consulate deals with confused, complicated cases all the time. Things were messed up in PT for a long time and people went all over the place. I was really worried about the name change in my family but the folks at the consulate said they saw it all the time. Worst case, they said, is we'd have to sign an affidavit that the names had been changed.. 

Regarding Birth Certificates; I don't know about other countries, but in the US a BC records your birth. That's it... In Portugal, it's a life document that records all of the big events that happen to you.. Being born, getting married, having children, getting divorced, It's all on there.. Or it is supposed to be. So it is used in a different way than it is in some other countries. 

You may find it helpful to think of it this way brownindian, you are just getting your paperwork in order. They are not giving you anything you don't already have.
If you have to go back a few times or dig for another piece of info- no big deal. Just get you father's paper work caught up and take it one step at a time.

acorey


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## brownindian

Thanks a lot AC, and have a good weekend.


----------



## bpereira

brownindian said:


> Dear Acorey
> My parents were Portuguese citizens born in Goa, Estada da India and I was born in East Africa. I am now living in Hong Kong and would like your help as i am planning to apply at the embassy here.
> 1. When you say have all your stuff together - does it mean i have to go the consulate with my parents, mine and child's birth certificates all together?
> 2. Does the consulate register all the births, deaths, marriage in the embassy or do you have to do it personally in crc,lisbon.
> 3. do you know anyone in portugal who can register for me ? or does the consulate do it?
> 4. did you need a police clearance certificate and did you need to translate your birth certificates to portuguese?
> 5. did you need to attest any of your documents? and if so does the embassy do it for you?
> 
> I would really apprecaite your help and advise in this matter.
> 
> Thanks and Regards
> BI



Hi BI
Its a bit more complicated than it seems as Portugal lost all records when India invaded Goa, you will therefore need to register your parents in Lisbon first with proof of their residence between January 1974 - December 1975 as they do not qualify for Portuguese citizenship if they lived in any Portuguese colonies in Africa as those were given independence and there was a specific period within which they could claim PRT citizenship.

To reclaim PRT nationality through a Goa connection you will need to first list your parents in Lisbon for this you will require a copy of their Birth Teor from Goa along with one original document such as the Documento para viagem or Portuguese passport or Birth certificate and a letter from the Mamladar or Sarpanch of your vaddo in Goa confirming residence between 1974 & 1975. This could be for either parent. that parent would then be listed as a Portuguese citizen in Lisbon. You will then need to register their marriage which is fairly simple once the birth is listed and then you could very easily list yourself, your spouse and kids.

Saude!


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## brownindian

Thanks BPereira for the information. Can I register my parent's birth directly in portugal? Or how can I check if his birth is not already registered there as born in 1922? Also can I register my birth there directly? 
Thanks 
BI


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## bpereira

brownindian said:


> Thanks BPereira for the information. Can I register my parent's birth directly in portugal? Or how can I check if his birth is not already registered there as born in 1922? Also can I register my birth there directly?
> Thanks
> BI


Yes you will need to register your parents birth in Lisbon as no documents were taken back to Portugal from Goa since the 1500s. It is very unlikely that their birth records would be in Portugal even if they were registered in Goa in 1922. Its only after you list either parents birth in lisbon can you list their marriage then your birth then marriage and then the birth of your children. These have to be done in lisbon you can do it through the portuguese consulates or directly in lisbon. Its much faster doing it directly rather than through a consulate. 
If you are listing them now you will also have to provide proof of residence between 74 and 75. If they lived in goa then you can get the letter of residence from the local sarpanch. You will also need one portuguese issued original document to expediate the case.


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## brownindian

*Portuguese nationality*



swedeinus said:


> I've googled this and found on wiki that if a child is born to a Portuguese parent in a foreign country, he/she is automatically a Portuguese citizen. But no information about children who are now adults and who did not register while under 18. I'm 31, my father is Portuguese, but I lived in Sweden my entire childhood.
> 
> Does anyone have information about this, whether or not it's possible for me to obtain citizenship, and how to go about it. And what about my kids?
> 
> Thanks.


Dear Swedeinus
Did you get your portuguese nationality finally? And how long did it take? It has taken me 1 year to do my dad's and now I am applying for my turn. Before I do my daughter's. Also does anyone know what is the verification process that they mention?
Thanks in advance.


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## acorey

Congrats on getting your Father's done brownindian, you are almost there- well done! Once you have that, it is just connecting yourself to your father, then your daughter to you. Any assessment is just to verify that you (and she) are who you claim to be. It shouldn't be an issue unless there is some exotic documentation, even then, just remember that they need something to put in a file someplace that meets a criteria. The game is just to help them with that. Hang in there!


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## LLisbao

*Obtaining Citizenship as a 3rd-Generation Immigrant*

Hi everyone,

I've read everything closely and think I understand how it all works, in regards to birth certificates, proving lineage, etc. However I have a slightly different / more complicated situation and am wondering if someone can shed some light on whether what I want is possible and how it would work. I'd greatly appreciate your help!

I hold both American and Brazilian nationalities & passports, as my mother and her parents are both Brazilian. My grandfather (mother's mother) was born in Brazil to immigrants from Portugal. This means my great-grandparents were Portuguese citizens. I do not believe my grandfather or mother hold any Portuguese documents much less citizenship (officially). However, they are both still alive. My grandfather lives in Brazil, my mother lives in the USA and I live temporarily in Germany (and am often in the States).

Is it possible to establish Portuguese lineage back three generations, and obtain a Portuguese citizenship & passport myself? Even if three generations have never lived in Portugal?

Drawing from other things I've read here, it seems it might be possible to do so, if I obtain PT birth certificates (with marriage, children, and death adddendums) for my great-grandparents, PT birth certificate for my grandfather, and PT birth certificate for my mother. However I'm wondering if they would each need to officially obtain PT citizenship first before I could do so, or if the official PT birth certificates are enough. (Maybe I'm misunderstanding and it's the same thing.)

Does anyone have experience or recommendations with this kind of situation? Any idea if I have to go through the process person by person (grandfather, then mother, then me), or if I can accomplish this all at once with the right documents? Is it even possible for me to obtain citizenship or is it a pipe dream?

Thanks very much in advance!


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## acorey

Hi LLisbao,
It sounds like you understand it perfectly. You will have to go back to the last people in Portugal, Update their birth/life/death record to include your Grandfather. Then have one created for your Grandfather that includes his marriage/children/death (if applicable) then your parent in line with them, then yourself. I don't know if there is a cut-off in terms of so many generations.

The way it was explained to me by the guy at my local consulate is simply that "the child of a Portuguese Citizen is considered Portuguese by the nation of Portugal. Period. They can never lose citizenship for any reason". He explained it as a kind of loophole around applying for citizenship- which does definitely have a cut-off. His point was this: You/your family has the right to make sure that the documentation for the last person living in Portugal from your family is in order. If that happens to include children born in another country- so be it. your family has the right to have their paperwork in order, and because they too are Portuguese, their children, and so on. I think that the thing that prevents this for most people is providing proof, however, Portugal knows that it's record keeping was a disaster until about 1980, so there is quite a bit of lee-way granted even with that. For example, if you managed to get your great-grandparent's info/birth cert in PT, but due to say a name change upon emigration there is no direct proof that your grandparent is that person's child- they will accept sworn affidavits to that effect. They kind of have to because they can't disprove anything because there are no records..

So yeah, I think it is more constructive to approach it from that perspective as well- Just getting paperwork and records in order- the fact that there is a passport in it for me at the end is coincidental, and really, none of their business.

You will have to go through the process for each person from the last that was living in Portugal. If your Grandparent is still alive, they will have to do this for themselves, as would your mother- you can't do it on their behalf. They will have to go to the consulate and sign documents etc.

In my case, my father was surprisingly willing to go and get his own citizenship (I paid for everything), and was willing to take care of getting my (deceased) grandparents paperwork sorted out with Portugal. I supplied him with all of the supporting documentation so he really just had to go fill out forms and sign things. 

If you are in Portugal, this may help you in finding all of the info from your Grandparents local birth parish. Church records were the only records for a lot of people. Your biggest challenge will be getting your grandparents to go to their nearest Portuguese consulate in Brazil, and then your parents in the US to go to theirs. You will be dealing with a lot of bureaucrats. I did it with three consulates here in the US. The one near my parents, the one near me, and then a third I had to go to because the one near me doesn't issue passports- so, it can be done.

It is still cheaper and faster than going to China, becoming a millionaire, and then investing 200k in Portugal in exchange for a "Golden Visa"..


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## 3r3bx

Hi All,

Sorry for resurrecting an old post but need some guidance.
My mother is Goan and was born in 1951 outside Goa, however her mother registered her (written on her baptism certificate and confirmed by her mother who is now deceased) but we do not have her Nascimento. My mother does have her parents nascimento's and they were both born in Goa. They were married outside of India though so do not have a Casamento.
So my question is how can my mother go about getting Portuguese citizenship by descent and then her kids (my brothers and I) and is there an easy way outside of India to do it?
I am currently in UAE so if there is any way to start the process from here it would be much easier.


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