# Landlord Refusing to Hand Over Deposit or Monies Paid for Invoices



## AngryTenantSpain (Oct 19, 2018)

I rented an apartment in Valencia, Spain as an American doing part of my medical residency here.


The contract was for 11 months - starting Nov 1 2017 to end of September 2018.

I paid a 1400 euro deposit + 1400 for utilities.


The contract stated:


La fianza de 2800€, entregada como depósito será devuelta al ARRENDATARIO en el plazo de QUINCE días desde la entrega de las llaves, mediante transferencia bancaria en una cuenta designada por el ARRENDATARIO, una vez inspeccionado convenientemente el piso, restando el importe aproximado correspondiente a las facturas de suministro pendientes de pago.

Este importe aproximado será resultado de la ponderación de las facturas de suministro previas


I left the apartment on 15 September and gave him the keys then. When he saw the apartment on 15 September he said it was in perfect condition.


It is now October 19 and he has not returned my deposit and has not shown any bills / invoices to me. I feel he is trying to keep my money. He now is saying I damaged the property. He did not make any mention of any damage till today - October 19 - 


However, my question is given that 15 days is over and he made no mention of this prior to the cut-off date of 15 October. Is he permitted by law to keep my money?

What can I do ? 2800 is a lot for a new graduate


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

He "said" it was in perfect condition?

What gets said, gets forgotten. Do you have any documentary proof that the apartment was ok when you handed him the keys / did the inspection?

You may struggle in a legal battle without such evidence as he will simply say that there were damages.

In any case, by law the landlord cannot keep the money from a deposit in his own account during the period of the tenancy, in Madrid at least there is a central deposit for the lodging of deposits. You could ask the local authority if there is such a thing where you were and mention casually to the landlord that you are investigating with the authorities, see if that wakes him up! Landlords which keep the deposits in their own accounts usually have more to hide than just that.


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

This happened to me and from what I hear it is common practice. Some say the word deposit in Spanish means gift. Also whoever has the money in their pocket owns it. In Spain you can have as many laws, rules and regulations you like, but if there is no realistic cost effective system to enforce them they are worthless.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Overandout said:


> He "said" it was in perfect condition?
> 
> What gets said, gets forgotten. Do you have any documentary proof that the apartment was ok when you handed him the keys / did the inspection?
> 
> ...


He is required by law to have a complaints book. Ask for a "Hoja de reclamacíon" If you don't get one go to the OMIC at the ayuntamiento. Frequently just asking for the complaint form will prompt action.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> He is required by law to have a complaints book. Ask for a "Hoja de reclamacíon" If you don't get one go to the OMIC at the ayuntamiento. Frequently just asking for the complaint form will prompt action.


I think not; the relationship between landlord / tenant is not a consumer relationship. A landlord is not obliged to have a "libro de reclamaciones".


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I think not; the relationship between landlord / tenant is not a consumer relationship. A landlord is not obliged to have a "libro de reclamaciones".


That's correct.

if he's simply letting his own property & isn't a company, then no complaints book.

However, that doesn't mean that OMIC won't help as a go-between if the OP is getting nowhere on his own.


As you say though, unless there's documentary proof - photos / something in writing - that the property was in perfect condition when the OP left, it will be tough getting that deposit back.


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

There is an EU wide small claims court that you can apply to. Most folk have never heard of it. Cannot remember what it is actually called. You might fins details on gov.uk or google


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

maureensco said:


> There is an EU wide small claims court that you can apply to. Most folk have never heard of it. Cannot remember what it is actually called. You might fins details on gov.uk or google


The EU small claims court is for international claims within the EU only. The OP does not state where they are now. If in Spain it would be a domestic matter, if in another EU country it could be the EU small claims court, if back in US any claim for €2,800 is probably not going to be cost effective. In any event it seems the OP has no documentary evidence of no damage when leaving the property. The OP has been turned over, apparently standard practice in Spain.:amen:


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

I think the lesson to take away from this is - to always have a witness to hand when the Landlord comes to
inspect the apartment before you leave and if you think the occasion merits it - a witness who's your
Lawyer or a Gestor.

Although I wouldn't tell the Landlord that - just let the Landlord turn up as if it's just the two of you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Photographic evidence upon entry & again when leaving, signed by both parties, is the best way.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> Photographic evidence upon entry & again when leaving, signed by both parties, is the best way.


Yes the more evidence, witness & signatures you have the better.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AngryTenantSpain said:


> I rented an apartment in Valencia, Spain as an American doing part of my medical residency here.
> 
> 
> The contract was for 11 months - starting Nov 1 2017 to end of September 2018.
> ...



Hi,
It's a shame that your first post is about getting ripped off in Spain. Seems to be a spate of first time posters with a hard luck story... I'm glad nothing like that has ever happened to me! 

Most people arrange with the landlord not to pay the last month's rent and the deposit is used up in this way. There are of course landlords who just want to rip you off, but as in every country in the world, most people are not trying to fleece the foreigner. I would try to see the landlord face to face and very reasonably ask what he is doing. If you don't get your money back, then walk away - you're a doctor, you'll make that money up easily!!
As for the doctor thing, could you tell us how you went about doing residency here, what steps you had to go through?


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> Photographic evidence upon entry & again when leaving, signed by both parties, is the best way.


Without doubt, but what do you do when the landlord refuses to turn up because he/she has no intention of refunding the deposit/ gift, standard practice? All tenants should consider the deposit lost once it leaves their hand. You are in Spain.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> Fortunately I've lived in Spain longer than you and don't take kindly to your suggestion that being in Spain = being ripped off !!


I think much depends on where one is in Spain and one's relationship with the locals. Usually, the ones doing the ripping-off here, are Brits


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I think much depends on where one is in Spain and one's relationship with the locals. Usually, the ones doing the ripping-off here, are Brits


There can be baduns in every country, Baldi !!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

It happens elsewhere:
https://www.expatforum.com/expats/f...ce/1465024-french-landlord-stole-deposit.html


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

uknowwhatimeanharry said:


> With regard to being ripped off in Spain, over half the posts on all Spain expat forums are about injustice.


Can we have a link to the source of that statistic, please?

I read the posts on 3 of them daily, and it does not seem to me that anywhere near half the posts are about injustice.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

uknowwhatimeanharry said:


> Without doubt, but what do you do when the landlord refuses to turn up because he/she has no intention of refunding the deposit/ gift, standard practice? All tenants should consider the deposit lost once it leaves their hand. You are in Spain.


Yes it's a common occurrence - but not 'standard practice' - & in fact is illegal.

If the outgoing tenant has proof that the property is in good order when they leave, & the landlord is witholding the deposit, OMIC will get involved if asked & aid the tenant in the recovery of the deposit.

Plus interest after a certain period of time.


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## Tellus (Nov 24, 2013)

The trick is very familiar to me-not in Spain but in Germany.
I too had a landlord who was not really serious about repaying the bail.
Luckily, I experienced it from other tenants and stopped the payment three months before the extract. 
He still tried to claim the remaining euros.. Vain. 

btw: GSM 's usually are with camera. Not only for selfies...


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## AngryTenantSpain (Oct 19, 2018)

I've already tried reasoning with him. No luck. 

I've got a lawyer and am taking him to court. It's not about money. It's about principle




Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi,
> It's a shame that your first post is about getting ripped off in Spain. Seems to be a spate of first time posters with a hard luck story... I'm glad nothing like that has ever happened to me!
> 
> Most people arrange with the landlord not to pay the last month's rent and the deposit is used up in this way. There are of course landlords who just want to rip you off, but as in every country in the world, most people are not trying to fleece the foreigner. I would try to see the landlord face to face and very reasonably ask what he is doing. If you don't get your money back, then walk away - you're a doctor, you'll make that money up easily!!
> As for the doctor thing, could you tell us how you went about doing residency here, what steps you had to go through?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I think much depends on where one is in Spain and one's relationship with the locals. Usually, the ones doing the ripping-off here, are Brits


Surely those most guilty of major ‘rip-offs’ in Spain are Spanish politicians stealing from and defrauding the ‘locals’ aka as the national, regional and municipal voting public.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Surely those most guilty of major ‘rip-offs’ in Spain are Spanish politicians stealing from and defrauding the ‘locals’ aka as the national, regional and municipal voting public.


But doesn't that apply in which ever country one is considering, such as the UK?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

AngryTenantSpain said:


> I've already tried reasoning with him. No luck.
> 
> I've got a lawyer and am taking him to court. It's not about money. It's about principle


Good luck!

It's good to see someone else prepared to go through the hassle of a court case for the sake of principle.

I am nearly two years into my "demanda" against someone who ripped me off with the purchase of a property and we still haven't set foot in a court...

Arm yourself with lots of patience, and remember that even if you lose, you are at least making his life a bit more difficult for a short while!

Please let us know how you get on!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> But doesn't that apply in which ever country one is considering, such as the UK?


No. It doesn't. Not on such a massive scale and with every political Party and even trades unions. Of course there is corruption in the UK but we have a lot to learn from what is commonplace in Spain.
When nearly every Mayor along the south coast of the UK and some major towns or cities is either in prison, has been charged with fraud or is under investigation for fraud, when leading financiers and politicians are involved in massive corruption scandals, when laundered money is used to fund a third or more of construction projects, then you can make a valid comparison with the UK.
In all my decades in politics in the UK I met very many stupid people but not one single corrupt person. We still have a culture of honour in public service which although frayed is absent in countries like Spain and the former socialist countries of Central and Eastern Europe where, like Spain, civil society s in its infancy or non-existent. That's what happens to countries that have experienced dictatorship.
Sometimes I think you view Spain through slightly rose-tinted spectacles ...Not everything in the Spanish garden is fragrant and lovely. Not all Brits are rude and stand-offish. Not all Spaniards are warm and friendly. 
When I went to pay a bill of 600 euros at the small Spanish taller I use I asked whether that included IVA and could I pay by card or bank transfer. I was asked if I was crazy and why I wanted to pay tax...and effectivo.
Most Spaniards and indeed most people are involved in a massive rip-off against the Spanish state when they evade tax. Then they complain about poor services.
It will need years and a massive culture shift to change this attitude as most people seem to accept the current state of affairs with complacency or resignation.


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## AngryTenantSpain (Oct 19, 2018)

2 years? 

Damn, this guy simply is ignoring me. We had a clear cut contract. Not a complex issue. 

He is even refusing to hand over the deposit that was supposed to given to the local council. 

I plan on telling him that I will make an under oath declaration to the police, local council that I suspect there was some money laundering involved and tax fraud. Hence, his relucutance to follow the law. 

That should get his attention





Overandout said:


> Good luck!
> 
> It's good to see someone else prepared to go through the hassle of a court case for the sake of principle.
> 
> ...


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## growurown (Sep 3, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> Surely those most guilty of major ‘rip-offs’ in Spain are Spanish politicians stealing from and defrauding the ‘locals’ aka as the national, regional and municipal voting public.


But this thread is abut a local Spanish person who in no means is a politician. Why is everything avec you is "blame the politicians" or at least bring politics into every thread??? /SNIP/ the 2-5 year wait for an answer on how the court case goes.


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## AngryTenantSpain (Oct 19, 2018)

2-5 years? Really? for a matter worth only 2800 euros? 

I think it's best I threaten to report him to tax authorities .


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

growurown said:


> But this thread is abut a local Spanish person who in no means is a politician. Why is everything avec you is "blame the politicians" or at least bring politics into every thread??? Back to the thread please and the 2-5 year wait for an answer on how the court case goes.


This post displays a staggering lack of knowledge of my previous posting history although,/SNIP/ you have shown a great deal of interest in it in the past.
/SNIP/


The short answer to the OP’s questionis that he has scant change of getting a cent of his money back.
/SNIP/


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

AngryTenantSpain said:


> 2-5 years? Really? for a matter worth only 2800 euros?
> 
> I think it's best I threaten to report him to tax authorities .


You could try that, but generally speaking, the authorities in Spain do not act quickly, and the Spanish know that. My personal opinion is that it won't worry him much.

The court action is the one which will hit him in the pocket, at least in the short term because he will have to pay a lawyer or at least a "procurador" to defend him.

But yes, don't expect it to be quick. My case is currently suspended because one of the defendants is applying for "legal aid" as she claims that she can't afford to pay the procurador. My heart bleeds. It took the court nearly a year to serve the summons...


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Keep at it until you get something. It will make him less likely to pull the same trick on other people.


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