# Portugal Warning



## jonwr

Hello all
I have been spending time looking around the web for a little place to buy in central Portugal over the last few months and have been on a couple of viewing trips.

i have noticed a worring trend. 

There are companies advertising property that look like official estate agents, but on closer inspection are not legal and registered to be estate agents in Portugal, there are dozens of these companies on the web and even advertising in magazines.

The problem is that some of these companies are not legal and are not working within the government guide lines for estate agents, and have no one to answer to when things go wrong, they are more likely to just tell you anything to get a sale.then you want see them for dust!!
They are not registered with the governing body INCI and a lot of them dont even have a registered office they just operate from home. they will have no insurance should you need it if the sale goes wrong.

I am choosing to steer well clear of these companies when i come across them on the web. after a little probing they reluctantly tell me they are not legal agents but 'ADVERTISERS' whatever that means, Just think what would have happend if i had tried to buy a house through these guys. i did ring one up and asked what it would cost for them to sell my house they told me 2% commission. they also advertise properties for local estate agents, the agents charge up to 5% and then the ADVERTISERS charge you a further 2% makes it a expensive way to buy a house.

One other thing that i have noticed while surfing the Advertisers and estate agents sites is that on a lot of the uk based/run Advertisers websites i have found property that is advertised by a local agent, the same pictures, the same ref number, the same details. appear on both the advertisers website and on the estate agents own website, only one very big difference. THE PRICE!! it seems that some of these Portuguese agents or indeed the advertisers are increasing the price sometimes by tens of thousands of Euros when targeting the British market, i have kept links to some of these if anyone would like to see what i mean. 

I find it disgusting that unscrupulous estate agents and English Advertisers will knowingly try to rip people off and overcharge buyers. especially anoying is that they think were all so stupid that we dont check around the web till we find thier website with the same house at a different price! or indeed look in the agents window!!

take my warning, only use INCI registered estate agents, check them out before you view property with them, via the Inci website. and ask around to see what sort of reputation they have. Be carefull.

I would advise people not to use ADVERTISERS it will only cost you more money, they are not legal registered estate agents, they dont have licenses, insurance, knowledge of the property laws, planning laws etc, would you trust your hard earned money to someone that has just set up in business to make quick money from people looking for a place in the sun. or to someone that has been trained and approved to handle your purchase, 

To work out who is legal and who is not.

A fully lisenced and legal estate agency will have an AMI number displayed on all its marketing material, website, business cards etc. they also will have the full company name and address displayed evrywhere too, a lisenced agent will also carry a id card issued by INCI with them at all times, ask for this too.. if you cant find these on a "agents" website, chances are they are not legal, ask them for thier AMI numnber, they will of coarse also have an office, not just a pc and a website!

sorry for the rant but just like to warn others looking to buy in central Portugal, of course during the last few months i have come across some excellent (legal) Estate Agents who are completly honest and trustworthy and deal with customers in a honest and proffessional manner. I can recomened these proffessional companies completely.


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## Stravinsky

Thanks for that jpnwr. Much the same in Spain, anyone can start trading as an estate agent, and they can charge what they like to whoever they like. Its not unusual to find the same property for sale with two different agents at two different prices


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## jonwr

Its a sad world when people are happy to just rip others off.
Just think of the large number of people who buy a house through some of these people only to find out afterwards that the price they bought the house for was inflated especially for them!!! 
this practice of over charging buyers is terrible, during the last few months i have come across several advertisers that regularly have property advertised at a much higher price than the house actually is, sometimes several thousands more. the worse case i have seen is from a well known advertiser that had a house at 40,000 euros more than the local Estate agencies. 

I also met up with a couple of these people when i was viewing properties, no office or business address, they just meet up with you in cafe or garage or someplace, show you the property, normally they dont even have copies of the paperwork, they dont know about the property, some have never even been in the house and have only taken pictures from the outside. 
they then try to sell you a house that they have just added 10,000 or 20,000 euros to the asking price. if they are lucky (and they must be sometime) they will get a buyer interested, they then approach the owner and say they will handle the sale, the owner gets the original price, the advertiser gets a huge payment from the unsuspecting buyer!

the other thing that i have come across a lot was some Portuguese estate agents use these people and thier websites to attract buyers, but because they charge the agencies 2% or 3 % the agents will just increase the price to cover the extra costs, the seller gets the same amount, but the commission goes up. in one particular case an agency added 10,000 euros to every single house they put on an advertisers web site. even the cheaper properties got the 10,000 treatment in effect almost doubling the price of a cheap house!

If anyone is looking to buy in Portugal, do your homework, check out and only use registered INCI estate agents, dont forget just because they say they are legal doesnt mean they are, ask to see thier license and AMI number etc.

It turns out that INCI the governing body is trying to stamp out these illlegal agents and websites, some of them have had 20,000 euro fines from the tax people because they are not legal and registered but it does seem that a lot of them are still willing to break the law and take the chance, well i suppose if the fine is 20,000 euros thats just the commission from one house sale!! and they are probably selling one a month so its worth it to keep doing it.

The more people that learn about these people the better, If your buying in Portugal look around and find the good agents, there are some real gems out there. luckilly i have gone through the rubbish to find the good guys.


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## Ray Scott

Hello Jonwr,
Good timely advice, thanks for alerting us! The more info we have the less chance of getting ripped off!
Cheers, Ray Scott


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## Mamacats

Dito!
Thanks for the information.

Diane aka Mamacats
Ragdoll Breeder
Portugal


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## jonwr

No problem, 
only hope that if enough people know about these illegal agents it will avoid someone being overcharged for a house they could have bought cheaper had they gone direct to the owner (if they can talk Portuguese) or bought through a reputable Legal Estate agent, always look for the AMI number, a proper agent will have it displayed for all to see. if there is no AMI number then be careful they may not be what they seem.


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## agnes

hi jonwr. been reading your post and would like the links to some of these advertisers so that we know who to avoid. cheers


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## Stravinsky

agnes said:


> hi jonwr. been reading your post and would like the links to some of these advertisers so that we know who to avoid. cheers



Unfortunately agnes its going to be difficult to name them on here as there are legal implications for the site owner .... maybe get the details by pm


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## agnes

happy to receive them by pm what info do you need


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## MinhoAmado

To all,
As in any country there are always people trying to earn a quick euro. Not only in realestate but also in legalising your imported car, getting insurance etc etc.
(SNIP)
Kind regards, MinhoAmado


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## Philippa Fox

*Philippa Fox*

Many thanks for the views on the estate agencey side. Fortunatly for me and my husband we did check out our agent and would recommend him. After working in the US. he thinks with a different mind too : )
We bought our house yesterday after a long wait and paper work. The thing that I would like to bring to your attention is an old Law in Portugal that if your land is registed as rural your neighbours have the right to buy/take the land from you for the price you paid. This is fromm the time that they know about the sale...... so for example your neigbour could be working in Brazil for example and not be aware that the land has sold....... 5 years later He returns and finds that land belongs to you...... He then goes to the local council gets a copy of the deeds for a small fee from the deeds office..... then..... Bang...... your land /house is his.
To stop this happening...... which is why we waited for the papper work trail in the buying of our house in the Minho valley...... you have to change the land into urban......

So you have been warned...... be safe in your buying and patient 

Philippa Fox


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## Gillyann

A really interesting and worthwhile thread, thanks to everyone.


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## omostra06

Philippa Fox said:


> Many thanks for the views on the estate agencey side. Fortunatly for me and my husband we did check out our agent and would recommend him. After working in the US. he thinks with a different mind too : )
> We bought our house yesterday after a long wait and paper work. The thing that I would like to bring to your attention is an old Law in Portugal that if your land is registed as rural your neighbours have the right to buy/take the land from you for the price you paid. This is fromm the time that they know about the sale...... so for example your neigbour could be working in Brazil for example and not be aware that the land has sold....... 5 years later He returns and finds that land belongs to you...... He then goes to the local council gets a copy of the deeds for a small fee from the deeds office..... then..... Bang...... your land /house is his.
> To stop this happening...... which is why we waited for the papper work trail in the buying of our house in the Minho valley...... you have to change the land into urban......
> 
> So you have been warned...... be safe in your buying and patient
> 
> Philippa Fox


not really as easy as that, the law is there but its not as worrying as it sounds, your lawyer will explain this law and how to solve any potential future problems.


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