# janice moving to Spain!



## tanquillasunrise

hi im new to this site .im going to be moving to spain at the end of the year an would be greatful for advice on this move.imfrom coatbridge outside glasgow


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## baldilocks

tanquillasunrise said:


> hi im new to this site .im going to be moving to spain at the end of the year an would be greatful for advice on this move.imfrom coatbridge outside glasgow


I think you might get more response if you start a new thread with a more appropriate title than "janice" - How about "Planning to move to (_insert area/community/town, etc_) at the end of the year, help needed.

However be aware, as you should be if you have done any research into this move, that we can offer little in the way of optimism for you since there is high unemployment (worse than UK), there are tough new restrictions on residency (which you MUST take out within 90 days) which could end up with your going back to Coatbridge.


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## Megsmum

tanquillasunrise said:


> hi im new to this site .im going to be moving to spain at the end of the year an would be greatful for advice on this move.imfrom coatbridge outside glasgow



Where are you moving to
what will you be doing
who are you going with
what do you need to know
Balidlocks is correct to be able to recieve any opinions you need to offer more that i moving at the end of the year. Come back with more and you will gets loads of help and advice
take care

x


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## jojo

I've "adjusted" the title of your post so that a few more folk may help and advise. Yes, we need to know more really - where abouts, your circumstance etc. Spain is a harsh but beautiful country and I would recommend it to anyone who has an income and no real commitments. Tell us more tho

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

Official figures state unemployment in Andalucia is now 39%.

If the OP is coming here to look for work, better to stay in Scotland.
But we don't know, as others have pointed out.


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## tanquillasunrise

im a mobile beauty therapist do you think that would be ok ?


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## tanquillasunrise

dont know anything about these resrictions??/


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## tanquillasunrise

my family are all grown up now and moving to the sunshine is what i want to do Im still workin as a self employed beauty therapist and would like to carry this on abroad


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## xabiaxica

tanquillasunrise said:


> im a mobile beauty therapist do you think that would be ok ?


if you are going to work as self-employed, you will have to register as such - your monthly NI-equivalent will be upwards of 250€ a month, + tax on top - no matter how much you earn (or don't earn)


tanquillasunrise said:


> dont know anything about these resrictions??/


the restrictions jojo mentioned are as follows:

within/at 90 days of arriving in Spain you are required to register as resident - in order to do that you have to prove to the govt. that you can financially support yourself & that you have healthcare provision in place


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## tanquillasunrise

my partner will still be working in the uk and coming over every other week and I hav a small buisness here in the uk and ill still be earning from that and hopefully i can get a wee job there doing beauty


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## tanquillasunrise

im lookin to rent a small appartment


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## xabiaxica

tanquillasunrise said:


> im lookin to rent a small appartment


have a look at the _FAQs & useful info _thread - you'll find links to national rental websites


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## tanquillasunrise

xabiachica said:


> have a look at the _FAQs & useful info _thread - you'll find links to national rental websites


thanks


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## tanquillasunrise

thanks a lot im trying to come to grips with this


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## tanquillasunrise

*moving to spain*

hi im moving to spain early next year with my 20 year old son,i would like to move to the costa del sol but dont know what would be a nice safe area with nice but cheap accomodation hopefully my partner can move over later but meanwhile he be working in the uk an supporting us there.I also have a small beauty business here in the uk which will be run by my daughter.i hope to rent a room perhaps in a hairdressers or somthing and earn cash there,im not lookin to get rich just a a nice life in the sun and earn enough to get me by i will be gratfull for any advice hopefully positive xx


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## Cazzy

You and hundreds of other, beauticians and hairdressers!!!


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## jojo

tanquillasunrise said:


> hi im moving to spain early next year with my 20 year old son,i would like to move to the costa del sol but dont know what would be a nice safe area with nice but cheap accomodation hopefully my partner can move over later but meanwhile he be working in the uk an supporting us there.I also have a small beauty business here in the uk which will be run by my daughter.i hope to rent a room perhaps in a hairdressers or somthing and earn cash there,im not lookin to get rich just a a nice life in the sun and earn enough to get me by i will be gratfull for any advice hopefully positive xx


First of all, you and your son will need to prove income and healthcare provision within 90 days of arriving in Spain to allow you to become residents, so your son will need to have a contract job preferably before he arrives. If you are going to start your own business you'll need to register as autonomo and pay 260€ a month regardless of income + tax on earnings. Your son will also have to prove his income and healthcare provision. Its incredibly hard in Spain right now - there are squillions of beauty related professionals, many who are bilingual so could appeal to the Spanish market - altho because of the recession there probably isnt much call for any new beauty therapists. One thing for sure, if you can manage to get residency, you wont become rich and its unlikely that you'll manage without a sizable income from your partner


Sorry if it sounds negative, but its not negativity, its the facts


Jo xxx


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## Cazzy

It is a real shame that no one wants to live inland. The language school where I work is desperate for another Native English teacher to join their staff (fully legal) Knowledge of Spanish is not required, but a high level of English grammar is! The pay is quite good too!


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## xabiaxica

tanquillasunrise said:


> thanks a lot im trying to come to grips with this


or take a look at the Classifieds here ....


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## mrypg9

tanquillasunrise said:


> my partner will still be working in the uk and coming over every other week and I hav a small buisness here in the uk and ill still be earning from that and hopefully i can get a wee job there doing beauty


Janice, whilst I can understand anyone living in Glasgow wanting to live in the sun -my partner is Glaswegian- I honestly don't think you realise that there is more involved now in moving to Spain than you seem to think

I would rate your chances of setting up in your business here as almost zero. People who can afford beauty treatments won't use mobile beauticians, they will use established salons as does my partner. Those who haven't any disposable income -and there are an awful lot of those now -won't be spending money on that kind of thing whether mobile or fixed.

There are as has been said restrictions you must comply with before being allowed to live and work here. You must show that you have a contracted job or sufficient income to support yourself. Your partner will need to do the same if he comes to live here. You will need around £12k in the bank and proof of health insurance.

Have you thought of issues such as transport? You can't use your UK plated car here. You need a Spanish-plated LHD.
It also helps if you speak Spanish.

Sorry to sound negative but the fact is that life in Spain now isn't all sun, sea and cheap living, far from it.
It's harsh and there are no welfare benefits to support you as in the UK when times get tough.

Spain in 2012 isn't like Spain in 1990 and it never will be again.

And nice safe areas are never cheap to live in, whether Spain or Glasgow.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Janice, whilst I can understand anyone living in Glasgow wanting to live in the sun -my partner is Glaswegian- I honestly don't think you realise that there is more involved now in moving to Spain than you seem to think
> 
> I would rate your chances of setting up in your business here as almost zero. People who can afford beauty treatments won't use mobile beauticians, they will use established salons as does my partner. Those who haven't any disposable income -and there are an awful lot of those now -won't be spending money on that kind of thing whether mobile or fixed.
> 
> There are as has been said restrictions you must comply with before being allowed to live and work here. You must show that you have a contracted job or sufficient income to support yourself. Your partner will need to do the same if he comes to live here. You will need around £12k in the bank and proof of health insurance.
> 
> Have you thought of issues such as transport? You can't use your UK plated car here. You need a Spanish-plated LHD.
> It also helps if you speak Spanish.
> 
> Sorry to sound negative but the fact is that life in Spain now isn't all sun, sea and cheap living, far from it.
> It's harsh and there are no welfare benefits to support you as in the UK when times get tough.
> 
> Spain in 2012 isn't like Spain in 1990 and it never will be again.
> 
> And nice safe areas are never cheap to live in, whether Spain or Glasgow.


I posted this, this morning http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la...-people-looking-work-spain-13.html#post946118


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## Cazzy

There is work though! If you are lucky. We came here to retire and most weeks are working 7 days. It is fitting it all in we have trouble with. Though I wouldn't like to get anyone's hopes up, especially for those wanting to move to the coast where the unemployed ex-pat situation seems to be the worst.


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## xabiaxica

Cazzy said:


> There is work though! If you are lucky. We came here to retire and most weeks are working 7 days. It is fitting it all in we have trouble with. Though I wouldn't like to get anyone's hopes up, especially for those wanting to move to the coast where the unemployed ex-pat situation seems to be the worst.


that's the point, isn't it?

IF you have a skill which is required AND you're in the right area , as you & I seem to be, thankfully, you'll most likely be fine


it's a big IF though


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## thrax

Totally agree with Xabi. But also with Cazzy. We came here with an income and a business plan which we haven't even begun to start yet. Instead we are far busier here than we ever were in UK and have to turn down work at times. None of what I am now doing I could have dreamed of back in the UK when we staqrted making our plans which is why I always say to people determined to live here, have your plans in place before you come over but be prepared to change them 100%.


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## goingtobcn

thrax said:


> Totally agree with Xabi. But also with Cazzy. We came here with an income and a business plan which we haven't even begun to start yet. Instead we are far busier here than we ever were in UK and have to turn down work at times. None of what I am now doing I could have dreamed of back in the UK when we staqrted making our plans which is why I always say to people determined to live here, have your plans in place before you come over but be prepared to change them 100%.


What do you do, just out of interest?


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## thrax

I teach English to Spanish kids, teens and adults. I teach remedial maths, physics and biology to English kids and GCSE maths to English kids. I look after a number of rental apartments and villas and I help my wife who is doing landscape gardening. In my spare time I have a brandy.....


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## goingtobcn

thrax said:


> I teach English to Spanish kids, teens and adults. I teach remedial maths, physics and biology to English kids and GCSE maths to English kids. I look after a number of rental apartments and villas and I help my wife who is doing landscape gardening. In my spare time I have a brandy.....


Wow! I'm not surprised you need the brandy  
Good on you two for doing so well


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## thrax

We also have a young boy who is nearly 3 and he tends to take up quite a lot of time. Two sets of parents both living over here and lots of friends means that we tend to have about 9 days in every week.


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## mrypg9

Professionals such as Cazzy, Xavi and Thrax will always be in demand. No way do I want to work but I was offered various jobs in Prague -I eventually worked for the Czech Govt. teaching English to senior Civil Servants one day a week -and I know I could work here if I wanted. Both OH and I have been offered jobs which we've declined.

It's the carpenters, plasterers, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, beauticians, hairstylists, dog walkers and so on that aren't in such demand.

I'm just guessing that some of the would-be immigrants aren't doing that well in the UK. That being the case, Spain isn't the answer to their problem.


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## Cazzy

mrypg9 said:


> Professionals such as Cazzy, Xavi and Thrax will always be in demand. No way do I want to work but I was offered various jobs in Prague -I eventually worked for the Czech Govt. teaching English to senior Civil Servants one day a week -and I know I could work here if I wanted. Both OH and I have been offered jobs which we've declined.
> 
> It's the carpenters, plasterers, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, beauticians, hairstylists, dog walkers and so on that aren't in such demand.
> 
> I'm just guessing that some of the would-be immigrants aren't doing that well in the UK. That being the case, Spain isn't the answer to their problem.



I am flattered to be called a profesional, the work I do now is totally different to what I did in the UK. Now I work in a language school, sell houses and clean holiday properties. In the UK i worked for social services living with and looking after mentally ill adults. I think it is easier to find work if you are not in an area with a high population of ex-pats.


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## tanquillasunrise

*nursing home jobs in costa del del*

I imagine theres plenty of nursing homes in spain is it difficult to find work there?


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## xabiaxica

tanquillasunrise said:


> I imagine theres plenty of nursing homes in spain is it difficult to find work there?


it's difficult to find work in everything here................

Spanish run nursing homes (do you mean for the elderly, or hospice-type?) would need fluent Spanish

those for English speakers are few & far between


ooh - btw 'costa del .............what?' ... I'll change it for you


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## jojo

I seem to keep coming along and p******* on your dreams - I'm sorry. I had been a qualified nurse practitioner when I arrived in Spain. I approached several expat nursing homes when we first arrived. I managed to get a job as a bank care assistant (they werent interested in my qualifications). The pay was 5€ an hour. I did two training shifts of 8 hours each - split with a 4 hour lunch break (siesta). After that I got one work shift and that was that. I phoned a few times and was told that there were 28 other people on the bank staff and they rotated their names to give everyone a chance - but we were only needed to cover holidays and sickness. That was nearly 5 years ago. The nursing home went out of business, the others never got back to me. 

also got a job as a community carer which involved going to ex pats homes to care for them, washing, bathing, dressing, feeding, housework, shopping... It also involved caring for expats in hospital who didnt have family to look after them there. The pay was 7€ an hour and 8.50€ an hour for over nights (8pm til 8am), but didnt include petrol.

The only other jobs that seem to be available are telesales. Mainly selling timeshare or insurance to people in the UK - most are commission only, which means you need to be an autonomo, but some do give three month contracts. The pay isnt good, but the commission can bring it up to something half decent. When I was selling cheap holidays for one particular company I was taking home around 400€ a month. Sadly that company no longer exists either

That said, why dont you find some addresses/websites and send them your cv and ask what jobs they may have available. 

Jo xxx


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## tanquillasunrise

:eyebrows:well im now getting rid of a morgage of £1000 a month gas and electric £200 pm phenomenal food bills £200 pm council tax and s.a.d with the terrible weather depression tryin to afford all this give me a we bit of comfort in the sun


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## jojo

tanquillasunrise said:


> :eyebrows:well im now getting rid of a morgage of £1000 a month gas and electric £200 pm phenomenal food bills £200 pm council tax and s.a.d with the terrible weather depression tryin to afford all this give me a we bit of comfort in the sun


 As long as you dont sell your UK house and rent it out so that when you need to return you can. The electricity in spain is much higher than the UK and needed more cos there is no mains gas on the CDS, so you're at the mercy of electric or bottle gas heaters. But yes it can be cheaper - but then income will be so much less - thats the problem, its still a struggle and its still grim in the winter. Its torrential rain by all accounts in spain today

Jo xxx


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## jojo

Look, why dont you do what we're doing this winter. Rent out a house in Spain for three months and see what happens. If you can get employment then you can become a resident and stay, if your son gets employment then so can he. If things dont work out, well you'll have tried and got away from the UK for the winter and you wont have lost too much.

We have friends who go to Spain every winter so we're giving it a go this year. I'm not going for the sunshine tho, I know how awful the weather over there can be, I'm going cos I love Spain and miss my friends there lol

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> As long as you dont sell your UK house and rent it out so that when you need to return you can. The electricity in spain is much higher than the UK and needed more cos there is no mains gas on the CDS, so you're at the mercy of electric or bottle gas heaters. But yes it can be cheaper - but then income will be so much less - thats the problem, its still a struggle and its still grim in the winter. Its torrential rain by all accounts in spain today
> 
> Jo xxx


yep - bucketing down over much of the country - parts Andalucia are on orange alert for torrential rain tomorrow

I've had to use the central heating for a short time today - I'm one of the lucky ones living in a modern well-insulated house...... but I'm DREADING the bills................. my gas, electricity & water run at well over 200€ a month - on the months I'm not using aircon or heating 

I've turned the heating off & we're in our warm fluffy PJs, fur-lined slippers, and the snugglys are at the ready..............


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## goingtobcn

jojo said:


> Look, why dont you do what we're doing this winter. Rent out a house in Spain for three months and see what happens. If you can get employment then you can become a resident and stay, if your son gets employment then so can he. If things dont work out, well you'll have tried and got away from the UK for the winter and you wont have lost too much.
> 
> We have friends who go to Spain every winter so we're giving it a go this year. I'm not going for the sunshine tho, I know how awful the weather over there can be, I'm going cos I love Spain and miss my friends there lol
> 
> Jo xxx


Sounds like a good idea


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## 90199

I need a builder with dry stone walling experience, I have two collapsed terraces, our house insurance will cover the expense, it was surveyed this morning.

I found a local one, highly recommended by friends, he inspected the work, seemed interested, so I asked him for a written estimate. He would not give a written estimate, does not sign anything, nor declare any earnings etc. etc.

I wonder of how many more of Spain's so called unemployed are working the system?

I arranged for an Electrician to fit cables for an electric cooker in a new kitchen, he won't look me in the eye now, the cooker is now five years old, the man who works for the red cross did the job for cash.

Try finding a carpenter, electrician, plumber, plasterer here, do not know about a dog walker, the nearest thing we have is Tobi and he belongs next door.

I am still looking for a builder who will give a written estimate.


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## mrypg9

tanquillasunrise said:


> :eyebrows:well im now getting rid of a morgage of £1000 a month gas and electric £200 pm phenomenal food bills £200 pm council tax and s.a.d with the terrible weather depression tryin to afford all this give me a we bit of comfort in the sun


Whatever you do, do NOT sell any property you have in the UK.If you do come to Span and things don't work out you need a Plan B.

You will not find sun everyday in Spain, we've pointed that out. It's only just regisrered with me that your son will be looking for work as well...has he any skills in demamd here?

Your electricity, water and gas bills will be much the same as in the UK. I personally don't find the cost of living where I live much different from the UK.

Can I ask...how well do you know Spain? How much time have you spent here? And remember, holidays aren't like real everyday life.

Jo's suggestion is a good one. Come to Spain in winter, say for three months from January to March. Rent your house in Scotland. 
But whatever you do, don't sell it and pin all your hopes on a new life in Spain. 
Because the odds are stacked heaviliy against you, I'm sorry to say..as do others who live here.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Whatever you do, do NOT sell any property you have in the UK.If you do come to Span and things don't work out you need a Plan B.
> 
> You will not find sun everyday in Spain, we've pointed that out. It's only just regisrered with me that your son will be looking for work as well...has he any skills in demamd here?
> 
> Your electricity, water and gas bills will be much the same as in the UK. I personally don't find the cost of living where I live much different from the UK.
> 
> Can I ask...how well do you know Spain? How much time have you spent here? And remember, holidays aren't like real everyday life.
> 
> Jo's suggestion is a good one. Come to Spain in winter, say for three months from January to March. Rent your house in Scotland.
> But whatever you do, don't sell it and pin all your hopes on a new life in Spain.
> Because the odds are stacked heaviliy against you, I'm sorry to say..as do others who live here.


tanquillasunrise has just posted on another thread that her son is fluent in both Spanish & French


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## tanquillasunrise

I also am a qualified drugs an alcohol counsellor and worked in prisons I imagine a lot of help will be required in this field


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## xabiaxica

tanquillasunrise said:


> I also am a qualified drugs an alcohol counsellor and worked in prisons I imagine a lot of help will be required in this field


why do you imagine that?

I know I keep sounding negative, but do you really not imagine that Spain doesn't have drug & alcohol counsellors already?

do you speak Spanish as well as your son?


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## jojo

The bottom line is that there is mass unemployment in Spain, the country is in crisis, austerity measures and unrest everywhere - believe me, the UK is paradise by comparison! Go over and have a few fact finding trips, send your cv off to as many companies that you and your son can find and maybe rent for a short period to see how you find things. 

We've told you what we know and how things are, you now are armed with some knowledge, so go and see how you find it. unfortunately, theres nothing more we can add to make it better for you

Jo xxx


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## Navas

Cazzy said:


> It is a real shame that no one wants to live inland. The language school where I work is desperate for another Native English teacher to join their staff (fully legal) Knowledge of Spanish is not required, but a high level of English grammar is! The pay is quite good too!


Where inland?


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## Megsmum

jojo said:


> I seem to keep coming along and p******* on your dreams - I'm sorry. I had been a qualified nurse practitioner when I arrived in Spain. I approached several expat nursing homes when we first arrived. I managed to get a job as a bank care assistant (they werent interested in my qualifications). The pay was 5€ an hour. I did two training shifts of 8 hours each - split with a 4 hour lunch break (siesta). After that I got one work shift and that was that. I phoned a few times and was told that there were 28 other people on the bank staff and they rotated their names to give everyone a chance - but we were only needed to cover holidays and sickness. That was nearly 5 years ago. The nursing home went out of business, the others never got back to me.
> 
> also got a job as a community carer which involved going to ex pats homes to care for them, washing, bathing, dressing, feeding, housework, shopping... It also involved caring for expats in hospital who didnt have family to look after them there. The pay was 7€ an hour and 8.50€ an hour for over nights (8pm til 8am), but didnt include petrol.
> 
> The only other jobs that seem to be available are telesales. Mainly selling timeshare or insurance to people in the UK - most are commission only, which means you need to be an autonomo, but some do give three month contracts. The pay isnt good, but the commission can bring it up to something half decent. When I was selling cheap holidays for one particular company I was taking home around 400€ a month. Sadly that company no longer exists either
> 
> That said, why dont you find some addresses/websites and send them your cv and ask what jobs they may have available.
> 
> Jo xxx



I like Jo am a fully qualified nurse in a theatre management role here in the UK. 

I have emailed my CV to a few of the private plastic surgery hospitals
and have received, nada nothing at all and why would I, nurses in spain are coming to the UK I actually employ 2 in my operating department and their English is fluent as in medical terms etc. As a Councillor you would need the same skills in Spanish......plus knowledge of spanish medical terms

Believe you me I am really one for positivism but from reading your various posts I do not believe you are researching properly or are choosing to ignore the situation that most of Europe finds itself in. I really do hope you find whatever you are looking for and hate to be a downer, your son cannot find a job in his own country despite speaking two languages fluently, why would he stand a better chance in Spain, what is it that he actually does apart from speaking 2 languages, I am not being flippant, there needs to be a skill attached to fluent in languages, even in the UK

I really hate being negative i really do as someone who has asked questions and had some


> not want i want to hear responses


 it can be disheartening i know, but these are meant to make you sit and think, we have adapted our plans several times, and I get the impression from your posts that you are having issues...but please sit and write down everything about here and Spain, the financial situation, what contingency plans you have for you and your son

I genuinely wish you well and do hope that it works for you


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## mrypg9

tanquillasunrise said:


> I also am a qualified drugs an alcohol counsellor and worked in prisons I imagine a lot of help will be required in this field


Not really. FRom my experience of Scotland I'd say such counsellors would be of more use there.

And that is not meant as a slur on Scottish people. It's just a fact that alcoholism is more of a problem over the border.

There are very many qualified and unqualified drug and alcohol counsellors in Spain. Local papers, both Spanish and immigrant, contain many ads for such people.

I'm off to pour a glass of wine...that's what writing about alcohol has done.

The power of suggestion...


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## baldilocks

We spent 7½ years planning and doing all the research about where? how? why? why not? and got to where we are now - in our little bit of heaven on earth. It all works for us and, as somebody said recently, "we are actually living the elusive dream" but it wasn't just sitting there waiting for us to arrive, we had to work at it to make it happen. 

7½ years not just 7½ days/weeks/months but years. I could say 'come on in the water's lovely, it's a wonderful fantastic place and life', I could paint you a rosy picture of our life here in Spain but I won't because that would be irresponsible of me.  

YOU have to research all the options to find what suits YOU and what is best for your circumstances, we can't do that for you and as somebody else has said it is no good making the move because you are running away from something - so many expats (especially Brits) are here for that reason, well I should say 'were here', because so many have packed up and gone elsewhere (mostly back to UK) because they ran to somewhere they shouldn't - they had no money, no income, no hope, nothing!


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## brocher

From the info you gave in another post, I may have a solution to your son's employment needs - 

If he gets a job in McDonalds in Glasgow, I believe they operate a system called McDonalds Passport, which would allow him to get a transfer to Spain.

Working in McD's would give him the chance to do a good, honest, hard days work with excellent promotion prospects through several levels to retail management, for those who prove themselves capable.

P.S. just so you know, unemployment in the under 25 age group in Spain is currently around 55%, it's less than half that figure here in Scotland.


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## tanquillasunrise

sorry but do your research your wrong and i do feel it was a slur on the scots by the look of you i could have a full time job both in counselling and a few beauty treatments we scots are also cheeky b..dards lol


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## Cazzy

Navas said:


> Where inland?


The job is in La Lantejuela, Andalucia


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## Guest

Please, everyone, try to be understanding. We don't know what Janice has been through!


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## mrypg9

tanquillasunrise said:


> sorry but do your research your wrong and i do feel it was a slur on the scots by the look of you i could have a full time job both in counselling and a few beauty treatments we scots are also cheeky b..dards lol


Some of you are also very silly. It seems a few of you could do with an English dictionary.  You came on this forum to ask for advice. You didn't like the advice you got. You became defensive, for some reason.

My dog is certainly better looking than me and he also has more sense than some humans...

.....


Btw, it's 'tequilla', not 'tanquilla'.......


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## xabiaxica

tanquillasunrise said:


> sorry but do your research your wrong and i do feel it was a slur on the scots by the look of you i could have a full time job both in counselling and a few beauty treatments we scots are also cheeky b..dards lol


I think you'll find that brocher is Scottish.....


janice - the only way you'll find out for yourself is if you come over & try - you clearly don't believe us

you might be one of the lucky ones - who knows - if not, go back - I'm sure you wouldn't want to be living here 'illegally'

maybe your OH & your business in the UK will be enough to support your life here - if so, you're one of the lucky ones again - but if you NEED an income here, bear in mind that you probably won't make it

PLEASE try to take our advice on board - however hard you might think it is in Scotland, the general situation here is far far worse - that's official figures- not just us saying it

yes, we get more sun (though not this week) - but that really is the ONLY thing we get more of


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Some of you are also very silly. It seems a few of you could do with an English dictionary.  You came on this forum to ask for advice. You didn't like the advice you got. You became defensive, for some reason.
> 
> My dog is certainly better looking than me and he also has more sense than some humans...
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> Btw, it's 'tequilla', not 'tanquilla'.......


this is a tanquilla - have to admit it doesn't conjure up quite the same image











or...........maybe janice is a Star Wars fan?

Tanquilla Beach - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I think you'll find that brocher is Scottish.....
> 
> 
> janice - the only way you'll find out for yourself is if you come over & try - you clearly don't believe us
> 
> you might be one of the lucky ones - who knows - if not, go back - I'm sure you wouldn't want to be living here 'illegally'
> 
> maybe your OH & your business in the UK will be enough to support your life here - if so, you're one of the lucky ones again - but if you NEED an income here, bear in mind that you probably won't make it
> 
> PLEASE try to take our advice on board - however hard you might think it is in Scotland, the general situation here is far far worse - that's official figures- not just us saying it
> 
> yes, we get more sun (though not this week) - but that really is the ONLY thing we get more of


MRYPG9s partner of 30 odd years is scottish and I think they lived in Glasgow for many years. 

It doesnt matter where you come from, its where you are going that counts. Research and knowledge is king and this forum has given you a snapshot - the rest is down to you to make your decisions! I'm glad that tanquillasunrise joined us, cos she has enabled us to think about Spain and how it is to live there. I like to think she'll take a few visits and come back to us with a fresh pair of eyes and tell us how she found it



Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> MRYPG9s partner of 30 odd years is scottish and I think they lived in Glasgow for many years.
> 
> It doesnt matter where you come from, its where you are going that counts. Research and knowledge is king and this forum has given you a snapshot - the rest is down to you to make your decisions!
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


yes I'd forgotten that

& you're right - it really doesn't matter where you are from - it's where you are going that counts

and no-one can make a decision for you - hopefully forewarned is forearmed though !


----------



## baldilocks

One small spark of light in the darkness for tanq or teq is peripatetic hairdresser/beautician and serve the elderly who are less able to get to the "beauty" salons but may still want to have their hair done - those of us who are here know what they are like, they may only have a few strands of hair but they will have those few permed and teased into a full head of hair. While there are plenty of salons, I haven't heard of any travelling hairdressers. Of course, there are also those potential clients who live out on the campo.


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## jojo

bobería said:


> Please, everyone, try to be understanding. We don't know what Janice has been through!


I understand what you are saying, but if she's been thru tough times, then she needs to have a clear and easy plan. The easy option would be without a doubt to stay where she is, rather than to step into the unknown without a safety net - remember, Spain isnt like the UK, if you fall over there, theres no financial or welfare assistance. I hope she isnt offended cos all we can say on here is how it is.

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo

baldilocks said:


> One small spark of light in the darkness for tanq or teq is peripatetic hairdresser/beautician and serve the elderly who are less able to get to the "beauty" salons but may still want to have their hair done - those of us who are here know what they are like, they may only have a few strands of hair but they will have those few permed and teased into a full head of hair. While there are plenty of salons, I haven't heard of any travelling hairdressers. Of course, there are also those potential clients who live out on the campo.


Ok, forget overheads for a moment. Lets say that each client would pay 20€ a time (probably it would be less, but...) hairdressing tends to work in 6 week cycles, few people have their hair done more often - well maybe a wash and set, but that wouldnt bring 20€. So, lets say 3 heads a day over 5 days = 15! 15 x 20€ = 300€ a week. You'd need a data base of 15 x 6 to ensure that you have work for 5 days a week during the 6 week cycle.. So you'd need a database of 60 regular folk who will pay 20€ a time to bring in 1200€ a month before stoppages. Other beauty treatment would maybe add to the income, but I have no idea of procedures or costs

Overheads would be autonomo payments of 260€ a month, car maintenance and petrol, equipment, which would be tax deductable, this would bring in close to 1000€ a month after deductions (I'm not an accountant BTW, just trying to work out some rough figures)....................... Could it be done???? Could 20€ be charged? Could 60 clients be found?

Jo xxxx


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## baldilocks

jojo said:


> Ok, forget overheads for a moment. Lets say that each client would pay 20€ a time (probably it would be less, but...) hairdressing tends to work in 6 week cycles, few people have their hair done more often - well maybe a wash and set, but that wouldnt bring 20€. So, lets say 3 heads a day over 5 days = 15! 15 x 20€ = 300€ a week. You'd need a data base of 15 x 6 to ensure that you have work for 5 days a week during the 6 week cycle.. So you'd need a database of 60 regular folk who will pay 20€ a time to bring in 1200€ a month before stoppages. Other beauty treatment would maybe add to the income, but I have no idea of procedures or costs
> 
> Overheads would be autonomo payments of 260€ a month, car maintenance and petrol, equipment, which would be tax deductable, this would bring in close to 1000€ a month after deductions (I'm not an accountant BTW, just trying to work out some rough figures)....................... Could it be done???? Could 20€ be charged? Could 60 clients be found?
> 
> Jo xxxx


Depends on where she is. Maybe in an expat area where perhaps there are elderly or semi infirm who don't want to go to a Spanish Peluquería because everyone gabbles away in Spanish. I have no idea - it was just a thought as to how she could put her skills to use. Here in this village there are about half a dozen overt peluquerías plus an uncountable number of behind-the-curtains ones!


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## Francesca747

Having just spent 2 years in the Broch, I am delighted to be back in Spain..I know what its like to look out the window everyday in Scotland and wonder if summer is ever going to arrive, going to the post office and wondering if the druggies will move out the way so you can go through the door....I came out here many years ago with nothing but a dream and I made it happen, getting work here and there. As everyone is telling you nowadays its alot more difficult but not impossible, if we didnt have dreams and hope where would we be, still sat in Scotland looking out the window wondering when summer is going to arrive!! 

So come and try and see what happens, just have something/ somewhere to fall back on IF you cant find work or earn enough to make it happen here.....Spain is full of problems and always has been, animal abuse , rudeness, stupid drivers..to name but a few of them..


----------



## jojo

Francesca747 said:


> Having just spent 2 years in the Broch, I am delighted to be back in Spain..I know what its like to look out the window everyday in Scotland and wonder if summer is ever going to arrive, going to the post office and wondering if the druggies will move out the way so you can go through the door....I came out here many years ago with nothing but a dream and I made it happen, getting work here and there. As everyone is telling you nowadays its alot more difficult but not impossible, if we didnt have dreams and hope where would we be, still sat in Scotland looking out the window wondering when summer is going to arrive!!
> 
> So come and try and see what happens, just have something/ somewhere to fall back on IF you cant find work or earn enough to make it happen here.....Spain is full of problems and always has been, animal abuse , rudeness, stupid drivers..to name but a few of them..



All well and good - you arrived before the rules changed tho and now, you cant become a resident without proved income and healthcare arrangements - now the best you can get is a temporary/90 day NIE. 

So yes, I agree with giving it a go and seeing what happens, but dont burn any UK bridges

Jo xxx


----------



## Francesca747

Yes dont burn your UK bridges ...I totally agree with that....But you can post on a forum until your blue in the face, the only person to know if this is the right place for you , is you. Take everyones advice onboard and digest it well but unless you try you will never know, I totally agree it is far harder to arrive here these days, it certainly isnt care free (legally wise) as it was back in the day.


----------



## baldilocks

Francesca747 said:


> Spain is full of problems and always has been, animal abuse , rudeness, stupid drivers..to name but a few of them..


 ...and expats who have no resources, no income, no job, no hope and should never have strayed away from the playpen in the first place but are only too willing to blame their misfortune on the government, the local people, other expats, the banks..., anybody but their own stupidity.


----------



## jojo

I think a lot of the problem is simply because life is so easy now in the UK, everyone assumes its the same in Spain but with sunshine. People may complain and moan about things here in good ole blighty, but for heavens sake, tell me what other country gives you money indefinitely if you're out of work, earn too little, have children, free healthcare..... Somewhere to live if you dont have anywhere........ I dont think its a good thing and its breeding a generation that cant begin to look after themselves - but you get none of that in Spain. Ok, so its sunny in the summer, booze and ciggies are cheaper - but thats about it - Fall or fail, and you're on your own!!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## Francesca747

baldilocks said:


> ...and expats who have no resources, no income, no job, no hope and should never have strayed away from the playpen in the first place but are only too willing to blame their misfortune on the government, the local people, other expats, the banks..., anybody but their own stupidity.


Yes totally in agreement, also expats who come here and expect spanish people to speak english to them, or try and find a job without speaking spanish...that has never made sense to me


----------



## jojo

Francesca747 said:


> Yes totally in agreement, also expats who come here and expect spanish people to speak english to them, or try and find a job without speaking spanish...that has never made sense to me


... again its because in the UK its ok not to speak english and provision is made for that. 

Theres also this thing about Spain that because there are supposedly so many British there, that there is a whole community/lifestyle of people who dont need to ever speak Spanish. This maybe true of those who dont need to work, but its not a viable option to not speak, read or write the language if you do - regardless of who you deal with


Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

I've come to the conclusion that there are two types of wannabe immigrants: those who genuinely seek advice from posters and stickies on this forum and those who have already made up their mind that they are coming to Spain whatever advice they get...some of them do indeed throw their toys out of the playpen when they don't get the answers they want to hear.

The first category may come to Spain and if they do they will most probably settle happily into their new life.

The second category may never get beyond posting but if they do come in spite of all advice will be as unhappy and unsettled here as they are in the UK.

The most important point is that the economic climate here has changed hugely since we came here in 2008. Plasters, hairdressers, plumbers and so on, especially those who don't speak Spanish, have a 1% chance of finding legal, contracted work, if that. The new regulations regarding assets, income and health insurance requirements will rule out some people too.

But many people hear what they want to hear....


----------



## jojo

mrypg9 said:


> I've come to the conclusion that there are two types of wannabe immigrants: those who genuinely seek advice from posters and stickies on this forum and those who have already made up their mind that they are coming to Spain whatever advice they get...some of them do indeed throw their toys out of the playpen when they don't get the answers they want to hear.
> 
> The first category may come to Spain and if they do they will most probably settle happily into their new life.
> 
> The second category may never get beyond posting but if they do come in spite of all advice will be as unhappy and unsettled here as they are in the UK.
> 
> The most important point is that the economic climate here has changed hugely since we came here in 2008. Plasters, hairdressers, plumbers and so on, especially those who don't speak Spanish, have a 1% chance of finding legal, contracted work, if that. The new regulations regarding assets, income and health insurance requirements will rule out some people too.
> 
> But many people hear what they want to hear....


The question to ask is why???? Why go to a country that is now known for being in such a financial mess?? Is it the sun? Is it the cheap booze and ciggies? Is it the so called care free lifestyle (that doesnt exist anymore) ???? Is it to get away from the UK??? 

The one thing I learnt from our four years in Spain is that the UK aint that bad - its a kind and safe country (too bloody kind lol). We wanted to move to Spain for a better life, better weather, more space and freedom. We were lucky, my husband had his business in the UK which funded us and I'm glad we did it, I only wish we could have stayed - but the economy in Spain really made it impossible ( I have two teenagers). Its that impossible side of things that is stopping us coming back permanently and that will cause untold hardship to those who think its an easy option to live in Spain. 

there will be people who move to Spain who dont read the various forums (that all tell the same story), they hopefully wont burn their bridges. I'm definitely glad that we didnt - we kept our UK house and my husband still has his business and we're planning to just spend our winters in Spain for the time being???!!

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9

jojo said:


> *The question to ask is why????* Why go to a country that is now known for being in such a financial mess?? Is it the sun? Is it the cheap booze and ciggies? Is it the so called care free lifestyle (that doesnt exist anymore) ???? Is it to get away from the UK???
> 
> The one thing I learnt from our four years in Spain is that the UK aint that bad - its a kind and safe country (too bloody kind lol). We wanted to move to Spain for a better life, better weather, more space and freedom. We were lucky, my husband had his business in the UK which funded us and I'm glad we did it, I only wish we could have stayed - but the economy in Spain really made it impossible ( I have two teenagers). Its that impossible side of things that is stopping us coming back permanently and that will cause untold hardship to those who think its an easy option to live in Spain.
> 
> there will be people who move to Spain who dont read the various forums (that all tell the same story), they hopefully wont burn their bridges. I'm definitely glad that we didnt - we kept our UK house and my husband still has his business and we're planning to just spend our winters in Spain for the time being???!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I think there are many reasons, Jo. Some people seem to think Spain is an English colony where you don't need to speak Spanish as everyone speaks English and that there is a huge reservoir of Brits queueing up to use the services they offer.
Many of these people have experienced 'abroad' only through holidays, some of which are the type where everything is organised for you.

Then there are those who are dissatisfied with their lives in the UK, mainly for good reasons. No-one likes grey skies, cold weather, job insecurity. 
But these people are seemingly unaware that the sun doesn't shine every day, that Spanish winters can be as cold and wet as in the UK and that six million plus are unemployed.

Then there are what I call the 'chancers'....people with no solid jobs or assets in the UK and who think they can make an easier living in Spain. These are often the dodgy characters you find hanging around Brit bars, offering cheap jobs in trades they have no qualifications to practise. They tend to live from hand to mouth on occasional black market casual work.

Then there are the single, the footloose and fancy-free, no dependents...I always advise these people to give it a go, providing they have a Plan B if it goes pear-shaped.

Finally there are the prudent and sensible: the retired with good incomes, the professionals with a secure and well-paid contract, those with busineeses in the UK or who work abroad or off-shore. To them I say 'Welcome'.

THen there are the plain daft who often get abusive when they don't hear the encouragement they expect....


----------



## Megsmum

mrypg9 said:


> I think there are many reasons, Jo. Some people seem to think Spain is an English colony where you don't need to speak Spanish as everyone speaks English and that there is a huge reservoir of Brits queueing up to use the services they offer.
> Many of these people have experienced 'abroad' only through holidays, some of which are the type where everything is organised for you.
> 
> Then there are those who are dissatisfied with their lives in the UK, mainly for good reasons. No-one likes grey skies, cold weather, job insecurity.
> But these people are seemingly unaware that the sun doesn't shine every day, that Spanish winters can be as cold and wet as in the UK and that six million plus are unemployed.
> 
> Then there are what I call the 'chancers'....people with no solid jobs or assets in the UK and who think they can make an easier living in Spain. These are often the dodgy characters you find hanging around Brit bars, offering cheap jobs in trades they have no qualifications to practise. They tend to live from hand to mouth on occasional black market casual work.
> 
> Then there are the single, the footloose and fancy-free, no dependents...I always advise these people to give it a go, providing they have a Plan B if it goes pear-shaped.
> 
> Finally there are the prudent and sensible: the retired with good incomes, the professionals with a secure and well-paid contract, those with busineeses in the UK or who work abroad or off-shore. To them I say 'Welcome'.
> 
> THen there are the plain daft who often get abusive when they don't hear the encouragement they expect....



this is all very true but even for the likes of us with a reasonable income, property and money in the bank.........sounds fab... but we are still going to have a frugal life and will not be easy.. no more easier than here... but different.. and its a risk. and i think that's the issue with a lot of people... they dont see the risks or choose not to. When we arrive and if it goes wrong then it goes wrong, we cannot blame anyone, thats life and our choice.

When we watch the TV place in the sun, get a new life etc the statement that always makes us ROFL is

" we want to go to spain/france/oz etc because we want to spend more time together as a family. All we do in the UK is work"

Its like the rest of the world is having this fab time and no one works.
Fliiping eck Meldew weekend has now turned into medrew monday!!!!:juggle:


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## spanish_lad

in spain you work just as hard, if not harder, with longer hours, for less money. 

you spend more on fuel and electric and phone lines and internet.

the houses are smaller and colder. 

you have to drive 50-100 km for something that in the uk you could get from the corner shop. 


seriously, its not all sun sea and sangria.


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## tanquillasunrise

I have always been a worker an never had to rely on benefits and Iwill come to spain and try to find work here and there if Its too difficult Ill come home but I have to give it a try no harm in that is there???


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## jojo

tanquillasunrise said:


> I have always been a worker an never had to rely on benefits and Iwill come to spain and try to find work here and there if Its too difficult Ill come home but I have to give it a try no harm in that is there???


Make several visits first to get an idea of what it is you're going to

Jo xxx


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## jojo

Heres a post from another thread where someone has just visited Spain with a view to moving there, pre retirement. I feel it sums up the situation and applies to your situation



Leper said:


> Hi Sirtravelot,
> 
> Mistake No. 1:- You want to work in Spain. I wish you the best of luck, but you saw for yourself; the last thing Spain needs now is another Western European looking for a job that does not exist. You might think it does' it doesn't. [No offence, please].
> 
> Mistake No. 2:- Your expectation exceeded the reality. Not unusual, expect less and you will achieve more. Ask not what Spain can do for you, but what you can do for yourself. Spain won't.
> 
> Mistake No. 3:- Giving up an occupation with good income in the UK or even thinking about it. Keep your job, nourish it, cherish it, hold on to it, love it because Spain will murder it.
> 
> Go for a long walk in Scotland, smile at passers by, salute some motorists, look around and even if it is windy and raining love it.
> 
> Eventually, when you retire, Spain will still be in the doldrums. Then come to Spain from September to May. You will have the time of your life. Rent and don't buy.


Jo xxx


----------



## MaidenScotland

mrypg9 said:


> I've come to the conclusion that there are two types of wannabe immigrants: those who genuinely seek advice from posters and stickies on this forum and those who have already made up their mind that they are coming to Spain whatever advice they get...some of them do indeed throw their toys out of the playpen when they don't get the answers they want to hear.
> 
> The first category may come to Spain and if they do they will most probably settle happily into their new life.
> 
> The second category may never get beyond posting but if they do come in spite of all advice will be as unhappy and unsettled here as they are in the UK.
> 
> The most important point is that the economic climate here has changed hugely since we came here in 2008. Plasters, hairdressers, plumbers and so on, especially those who don't speak Spanish, have a 1% chance of finding legal, contracted work, if that. The new regulations regarding assets, income and health insurance requirements will rule out some people too.
> 
> But many people hear what they want to hear....




We have the same problem on the Egypt page..

We ask why would you want to come to a country that is in political turmoil indeed as I write this we have the army and police physically against each other in the outskirts of Cairo.. and they always answer back If it is so bad why are you still there?

People that ask for information are already sold on the idea of coming and nothing is going to stop them they only want you to confirm what they believe their life will be,


----------



## Cazzy

tanquillasunrise said:


> I have always been a worker an never had to rely on benefits and Iwill come to spain and try to find work here and there if Its too difficult Ill come home but I have to give it a try no harm in that is there???


I think you are mad!! But saying that I came here without the need to work and I work long hours! Surprisingly out of the 34 replies I have had for the job I advertised I have had none from any ex-pats already living here, so I guess the ex-pats that live here aren't that desperate for work!


----------



## xabiaxica

Cazzy said:


> I think you are mad!! But saying that I came here without the need to work and I work long hours! Surprisingly out of the 34 replies I have had for the job I advertised I have had none from any ex-pats already living here, so I guess the ex-pats that live here aren't that desperate for work!


that's more than likely true - most of us still here either have work sorted or don't need to 

any recent immigrant would have to to be in that position before they came


----------



## jojo

Cazzy said:


> I think you are mad!! But saying that I came here without the need to work and I work long hours! Surprisingly out of the 34 replies I have had for the job I advertised I have had none from any ex-pats already living here, so I guess the ex-pats that live here aren't that desperate for work!


 I dont know where else you've advertised the position, but its my understanding (forgive and correct me if I'm wrong) that the job is "out in the sticks" and not very quick, easy or cheap to get to??? and depends on living in the area, an area which doesnt attract a lot of expats????

Jo xxx


----------



## Francesca747

Cazzy said:


> I think you are mad!! But saying that I came here without the need to work and I work long hours! Surprisingly out of the 34 replies I have had for the job I advertised I have had none from any ex-pats already living here, so I guess the ex-pats that live here aren't that desperate for work!


I live here I would have applied for the job but its too far away from where I live!!


----------



## agua642

I'm an expat came here 28-30 years ago I was only 22  I've seen and been involved in the boom times of Spain, also been through recession (crises) in Spain, but trust me this time is different, it's not just the expats who can't find work, the Spaniards are also unemployed! any jobs are gonna go to there own kind 1st. Be realistic don't be under any illusion, the cheap carefree Spain has gone for good, the Government are pulling Spain into line with the rest of EU. Genuine hard workers expat who have lived in Spain for many many years are even returning to their home country, surely that tells us all something about Spain! these people have lived full on in Spain, have children, worked, payed into systems, speak fluent Spanish, fully integrated, properly never thought or had any intentions of returning to their home Country! are having to return they seriously see No future in Spain.
You have to feel for the Spaniards many of them are truly stitched up here, all because of the Government making error after error. 
Listen to advice and stay put! or go somewhere else..


----------



## Cazzy

jojo said:


> I dont know where else you've advertised the position, but its my understanding (forgive and correct me if I'm wrong) that the job is "out in the sticks" and not very quick, easy or cheap to get to??? and depends on living in the area, an area which doesnt attract a lot of expats????
> 
> Jo xxx


The job is about 30km out of Ecija which used to be the capital of Andalucia, It is no good for people who want 'little Britain' but for anyone who wants to immerse themselves in Spanish it is ideal. There are hundreds of expats scattered around the area.


----------



## Megsmum

Cazzy said:


> jojo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know where else you've advertised the position, but its my understanding (forgive and correct me if I'm wrong) that the job is "out in the sticks" and not very quick, easy or cheap to get to??? and depends on living in the area, an area which doesnt attract a lot of expats????
> 
> Jo xxx[/QUOT
> 
> The job is about 30km out of Ecija which used to be the capital of Andalucia, It is no good for people who want 'little Britain' but for anyone who wants to immerse themselves in Spanish it is ideal. There are hundreds of expats scattered around the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well i would go for it for def if I was there. Its just flipping 10 months to early for me and my pension:juggle::juggle:
Click to expand...


----------



## baldilocks

Cazzy said:


> Ecija which used to be the capital of Andalucia,


Really? since when? supporting evidence please. 

It is known as the Sarten de Andalucía or The Frying pan of Andalucía because it gets so hot there.


----------



## Cazzy

baldilocks said:


> Really? since when? supporting evidence please.
> 
> It is known as the Sarten de Andalucía or The Frying pan of Andalucía because it gets so hot there.



I will try and get you some!


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## Francesca747

It might be know as the sarten of Andalucia but having just read up on it , looks like theres more sights and places to walk there than the dump of a town I live in, thumbs up for Ecija from me


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## Cazzy

Francesca747 said:


> It might be know as the sarten of Andalucia but having just read up on it , looks like theres more sights and places to walk there than the dump of a town I live in, thumbs up for Ecija from me


It is a beautiful place! Very hot though.


----------



## Megsmum

Cazzy said:


> It is a beautiful place! Very hot though.


what about the winter cazzy, is it v cold often the way with the v hot summers


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## Cazzy

cambio said:


> what about the winter cazzy, is it v cold often the way with the v hot summers



I would say we get about 6 frosts a year. At the moment we are around 20 in the day and 10 at night. The temperatures drop a little more, but not much more generally. Once the sun goes down it gets chilly, but I never wear a coat only a fleece.


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## jojo

Its not so much the actual temperature, its that Spanish houses dont "do" the winter very well - central heating rare, insulation not good, no carpets, expensive electricity..... And of course the weather may not be cold as such, but torrential rain, high winds tend to be more difficult to deal with and unpleasant than just coldness!!!

Jo xxxx


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## thrax

On this thread there are a number of posts which say the cost of living here is the same as UK. Maybe where you live but not where I live. I rent which means I don't pay the small 'council tax' as opposed to where we ended up in UK renting (having sold our house) but still having to pay council tax at over two grand a year. We paid about 2,500 a year for gas and electricity and here the bill is around €2,000 (my keyboard has a € symbol but not a quid one unless each time I want a £ (see??) I have to reconfigure the keyboard and usually end up hitting CAPS LOCK BY MISTAKE SO i HAve to wipe out what I wrote and start again - I digress). I don't smoke and never have but I might take it up as ciggys are so cheap here I'd be saving a fortune!!! My food and household essentials bill is €400 - €500 a month and we but almost everything we had in UK where our monthly bill was close to 1000 (no £ sign note). Brandy (good brandy) is about a third of the cost. Some regulars here might recall I enjoy a glass or two of brandy a month.... When we arrived we had money in the bank and I have a pension. We didn't need to work but now we are busier than we ever were in UK. BUT we've been very very lucky in that regard and we recognise it. JoJo if you can find a ladies hairdresser that charges €20 or less please let OH know. She used to pay €70 for a cut and blowdry (more for a colour) but now she travels 30 kms inland to a lady who only charges €35. But I guess that's Nerja for you. OH cuts my hair and being a slave driver I refuse to pay her a cent. In UK I used to pay £40 for a haircut in Mayfair (I thought I was wealthy but it was more my inability to see through the red mist). We have a good life here; we work hard and would play hard if we had the time but we don't. We eat well but hardly ever go out (the boy and lack of babysitters sees to that) but we don't mind. We live in a house that is pretty easy to keep warm. Log fire and gas fire are all we require. We find ourselves atm saving money each month something we found almost impossible to do in UK even though we were both on pretty good salaries; I think the trap there is that the more you earn the more you spend so you are never better off. Here our lifestyle is so different and rewarding but we get to save money. Can't be bad. Howevedr, having had my go at being postive and optimistic I have to remind everyone who wants to move out here to be mindful of two things: all of the 'negative' posts are all true and you will need a lot of luck and be prepared to change your well laid plans 100%. Oh, that's three things. I'll stare at the brandy bottle - too early to have one.


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## jojo

> JoJo if you can find a ladies hairdresser that charges €20 or less please let OH know. She used to pay €70 for a cut and blowdry (more for a colour) but now she travels 30 kms inland to a lady who only charges €35


 I used a Spanish lady in a village inland where I used to live. She had turned her garage into a salon. She only charged 5€ - 10€ depending on if she did a cut and blow dry or just a dry cut!! That said, I usually cut my hair myself, altho every now and again I have to go to a hairdresser to do a major rectification job lol!!!! I do know someone in Nerja who knows everything there (Have you heard of Jonny unplugged???) - there is nothing he doesnt know in and around Nerja. I'll ask him about hairdressers

Jo xxx


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## thrax

Yes we know Jonny Unplugged... We also know all the hairdressers lol


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## baldilocks

thrax said:


> my keyboard has a € symbol but not a quid one unless each time I want a £


If you want a '£' symbol - just hold down the <Alt> key and on the Numeric keypad (Number lock on of course) hit 0163 For those of you who are using a UK keyboard, it is Alt 0128 to get the € symbol.

If you go to "Start" then "Run", type in "charmap" (without the quotes) hit OK and you will get the full range of symbols/letters etc in every font on your computer, unless you are usung a Mac in which case I haven't a clue.


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## thrax

Thanks Baldi but really my way is just a tad easier - all that was a bit tongue in cheek. All I do is hit the keyboard icon and change it from Spanish to English and then shift 3 gives me the pound sign. I have to change it back again because all the symbols above the numbers shift once to the right...


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## baldilocks

jojo said:


> I used a Spanish lady in a village inland where I used to live. She had turned her garage into a salon. She only charged 5€ - 10€ depending on if she did a cut and blow dry or just a dry cut!! That said, I usually cut my hair myself, altho every now and again I have to go to a hairdresser to do a major rectification job lol!!!! I do know someone in Nerja who knows everything there (Have you heard of Jonny unplugged???) - there is nothing he doesnt know in and around Nerja. I'll ask him about hairdressers
> 
> Jo xxx


My barber charges €6 for a very good haircut (he is a qualified barber - alway uses scissors - rarely the trimmer - not just somebody who got a trimmer from Lidl. I usually give him an extra Euro (black) which is what I used to pay in £s in UK.


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## baldilocks

thrax said:


> Thanks Baldi but really my way is just a tad easier - all that was a bit tongue in cheek. All I do is hit the keyboard icon and change it from Spanish to English and then shift 3 gives me the pound sign. I have to change it back again because all the symbols above the numbers shift once to the right...


I put it up for the benefit of others as much as anything, especially for those who have difficulty with the €. Being an old fogey, I find working with a Spanish keyboard less than comfortable so I stick with a UK one. In one of my jobs I used to do computer auditing and going to various countries and having to type in English on a foreign keyboard wasn't easy - unless you are a touch-typist anyway, it isn't easy to remember which letter is where. For example the French keyboard is AZERTY instead of QWERTY - don't ask me what the other differences are - I can't remember.


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## Megsmum

baldilocks said:


> If you want a '£' symbol - just hold down the <Alt> key and on the Numeric keypad (Number lock on of course) hit 0163 For those of you who are using a UK keyboard, it is Alt 0128 to get the € symbol.
> 
> If you go to "Start" then "Run", type in "charmap" (without the quotes) hit OK and you will get the full range of symbols/letters etc in every font on your computer, unless you are usung a Mac in which case I haven't a clue.


€
€
€

thanks another learning experience 



> [quotethrax On this thread there are a number of posts which say the cost of living here is the same as UK. Maybe where you live but not where I live. I rent which means I don't pay the small 'council tax' as opposed to where we ended up in UK renting (having sold our house) but still having to pay council tax at over two grand a year. We paid about 2,500 a year for gas and electricity and here the bill is around €2,000 (my keyboard has a € symbol but not a quid one unless each time I want a £ (see??) I have to reconfigure the keyboard and usually end up hitting CAPS LOCK BY MISTAKE SO i HAve to wipe out what I wrote and start again - I digress). I don't smoke and never have but I might take it up as ciggys are so cheap here I'd be saving a fortune!!! My food and household essentials bill is €400 - €500 a month and we but almost everything we had in UK where our monthly bill was close to 1000 (no £ sign note). Brandy (good brandy) is about a third of the cost. Some regulars here might recall I enjoy a glass or two of brandy a month.... When we arrived we had money in the bank and I have a pension. We didn't need to work but now we are busier than we ever were in UK. BUT we've been very very lucky in that regard and we recognise it. JoJo if you can find a ladies hairdresser that charges €20 or less please let OH know. She used to pay €70 for a cut and blowdry (more for a colour) but now she travels 30 kms inland to a lady who only charges €35. But I guess that's Nerja for you. OH cuts my hair and being a slave driver I refuse to pay her a cent. In UK I used to pay £40 for a haircut in Mayfair (I thought I was wealthy but it was more my inability to see through the red mist). We have a good life here; we work hard and would play hard if we had the time but we don't. We eat well but hardly ever go out (the boy and lack of babysitters sees to that) but we don't mind. We live in a house that is pretty easy to keep warm. Log fire and gas fire are all we require. We find ourselves atm saving money each month something we found almost impossible to do in UK even though we were both on pretty good salaries; I_ think the trap there is that the more you earn the more you spend so you are never better off. Here our lifestyle is so different and rewarding but we get to save money. Can't be bad. Howevedr, having had my go at being postive and optimistic I have to remind everyone who wants to move out here to be mindful of two things: all of the 'negative' posts are all true and you will need a lot of luck and be prepared to change your well laid plans 100%._ Oh, that's three things. I'll stare at the brandy bottle - too early to have one.]


[/QUOTE]
how true this is. It is I also believe what you see as "lifestyle" and what compromises you are willing to make. We are expecting a different lifestyle, I think some people imho mix up a "better / different" lifestyle in monetary terms and maybe that is where the failings lie better is not always fancy houses, cars and holidays, again when i say this to my daughters they humph, maybe its just an age thing.


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## baldilocks

> how true this is. It is I also believe what you see as "lifestyle" and what compromises you are willing to make. We are expecting a different lifestyle, I think some people imho mix up a "better / different" lifestyle in monetary terms and maybe that is where the failings lie better is not always fancy houses, cars and holidays, again when i say this to my daughters they humph, maybe its just an age thing.


Apart from not working more than 12 hours a day just to stay afloat and keep up with the payments on the mortgage, council tax, gas, electricity, water, sewage, etc we don't feel that we have particularly changed lifestyle - we aren't bar-proppers, rarely go to a concert/theatre, we aren't beach people, etc. 

Our cost of living has shrunk considerably. Our eating habits have improved, in part due to availability of good fresh fruit and veg and proper meals (no sandwiches). We have never been fast-food types except for a quick cheese on toast, etc. We now only have one vehicle because that is all we need, we take a couple of holidays a year within Spain. We are far more relaxed without the constant stress and have time to say hello and chat with neighbours (what should only be a ten minute walk with the dogs can take an hour or more).

Compromising suggests that you make do with less or fewer things than you would like but we don't feel we have made compromises and, in fact, have got far, far more.


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## Megsmum

baldilocks said:


> Apart from not working more than 12 hours a day just to stay afloat and keep up with the payments on the mortgage, council tax, gas, electricity, water, sewage, etc we don't feel that we have particularly changed lifestyle - we aren't bar-proppers, rarely go to a concert/theatre, we aren't beach people, etc.
> 
> Our cost of living has shrunk considerably. Our eating habits have improved, in part due to availability of good fresh fruit and veg and proper meals (no sandwiches). We have never been fast-food types except for a quick cheese on toast, etc. We now only have one vehicle because that is all we need, we take a couple of holidays a year within Spain. We are far more relaxed without the constant stress and have time to say hello and chat with neighbours (what should only be a ten minute walk with the dogs can take an hour or more).
> 
> _Compromising suggests that you make do with less or fewer things than you would like but we don't feel we have made compromises and, in fact, have got far, far more._


I totally agree, maybe compromise was the wrong word, I was trying to say exactly what you said but not so articular. We like you are not pub goers even here in the UK the odd walk to the local hostelry on the odd nights through the year yes, HATE the beach. and would love a dog or two but the 12/13 hour days 5 days a week here at the moment means that a dog is out of the question, to be honest at the moment with the hours ;/ shift patterns I work, anything apart from work is out of the question.:juggle:


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## Cazzy

I pay 12 Euro for a wash, cut and blow dry and 30 euro for a wash, cut, colour and blow dry.


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## Guest

Don't know about EU keyboards, but in Windows there are lots of keyboard setups. I HATE spanish keyboards so I installed International English. Now this is my solution because I type a lot in both English and Spanish and sometimes Portugese/Italian but if you look you might find a keyboard that provides is a solution for other symbols as well.


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## Goldeneye

Cazzy said:


> I pay 12 Euro for a wash, cut and blow dry and 30 euro for a wash, cut, colour and blow dry.


30 Euros !!! Here in Canada~ I just paid $160 for a wash, cut, colour and blow dry!! think that's about 124 Euros! OUCH!!!


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## spanish_lad

124€ for a hair cut ??? that cant be the "normal" price ?!?!?!!


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## Goldeneye

spanish_lad said:


> 124€ for a hair cut ??? that cant be the "normal" price ?!?!?!!



YUP... That's the price I just paid in CANADA after currency conversion...........for a wash, cut, colour (highlights) and blow dry!


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## jojo

Goldeneye said:


> YUP... That's the price I just paid in CANADA after currency conversion...........for a wash, cut, colour (highlights) and blow dry!


 Yes, but theres some and some. My friend in the UK spends a fortune at the hairdressers (you'd not notice lol!!) and then theres me, I cut my own hair 99% of the time and I often get compliments - altho I've got dead straight hair that just hangs there lol! Its a personal choice - like everything else!

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9

I pay 80 euros for cut, colour and blow dry and feel I get vfm....and how you feel is the most important thing about hairdos, for women at least. 

We were able to afford 'top' international stylists in Prague, the equivalent to posh West End/Mayfair stylists in the UK and paid several £00s for our hairdos. We could do that because then the exchange rate was so favourable.

Was it worth it? Well, I got the best cut ever. But generally, not really. Sadly, nature has not been kind to me so I need the best outside help affordable and available.


This topic of lifestyles and affordability is so subjective imo that any advice is a trifle meaningless. Take the 'beach issue'....We don't lie all day on the sand baking ourselves -and what's wrong with that? - as we can do that by our private pool. But we do like the 'nearness'of the sea as I grew up on the Dorset coast and we enjoy walking on the beach with our dog in autumn, winter and spring at dawn and dusk.

We chose to spend most of our money on renting a large non-community type house because we enjoy privacy, although we have good Spanish neighbours. Apart from that major outlay on rent we spend comparatively little, dining out now and then but preferring eating well at home, reading, watching sensible tv and conversation.


I find it a bit strange when people ask 'which part of Spain would you recommend?' or 'how much do I need to live on?' It all depends on lifestyles. If we moved into a piso on an urb. we could drive a posher car, go on posh holidays, drink classier wines and eat at posh restaurants. But we chose differently.

Once again I must say: Sobre los gustos no hay disputos...


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## British Bulldog

tanquillasunrise said:


> hi im new to this site .im going to be moving to spain at the end of the year an would be greatful for advice on this move.imfrom coatbridge outside glasgow


Its a big move janice with lots pitfalls,as already mentioned 25% unemployment,6.000.000 milion people out work,just heard on the radio bay radio costa blanca 3.000.000 living on the streets no abode,no home,destitute,people scavenging in waste food bins to survive,its grim,many shops businesses closing down,big strikes even chemists now and a lot of chemists closed because they have not been paid by the govermnent,chemists are usually family run so they rely on money to support their families,many people could not get insulin because chemists were SHUT on rota.
A mountain of paperwork here to go through compared uk,usually gets better in time but has recently increased new legislation.

A lot depends on your circimstances janice,if you have already work to come to great!,if you have plenty income or money in the bank,savings ect,but if your intending to look/get work i do not think you will be very fortunate,dole here is 420 euros month normally but that has to pay for everything including rent,food,bills,everything!,ect ,having been here 6 years i do like spain a lot thats why i moved here,there is not much to dislike,however life has changed dramatically for many in the last 3 years or so,and many expats have gone back to the uk from here and also france aswell ect as there is at least help support there for the needy unlike here!,here you can be dead in the water with little help.

Plus points obviously.
1/good weather
2/cheaper living costs council tax,car tax,(not telephone,internet,electric)
3/more relaxed lifestyle generally
4/good roads comparably
5/much cheaper property prices and rental(depends locality)
6/agreeable spanish people
5/great outdoor life
6/good spanish healthcare doctors and hospitals,low cases of infections,not head of heard since being here.
7/healthy food mediterannean,good varias tapas dishes.
8/fiestas

There are many more not mentioned!

Down Points

1/no work
2/new changes in residency need proof income and private health cover if pre-retiree,proof money bank to support yourself,making it harder fo rpeople to live here in sain so you are not a drain on the economy.
3/poverty all ages bad especially children
4/price increases vat tax at uk level now
5/beurocracy gone mad/paperwork
6/difficult to get justice done seems to be in favour of criminals,takes years resolve legal problems.
7/high home re-possesions people literally thrown on the street children too,if they fail to pay their mortgage they are stil liable for it even after the propery has been repossesed by the bank and sold...2 suicides so far on this subject!
7/high corruption everywhere still.
8/a lack of real help/support if you run into difficulties compared to the uk france ect.

Again many more down points.

Finally i would say if you want to take a big big chance go for it you will definetely get a cheap property bargain now!,but if you are not financially secure or have work to go to,do not move to spain,you wont get help if you have/run into problems especially now with the crisis here.

bulldog:ranger:


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## Elena_gr

*a question of luck?*

Hello! 

I moved to Seville on April, without a work, or anything, and I found in just two weeks a small job at Decathlon. I didn't like it a lot, but it was ok to start. Anyway, I moved my CV everywhere and now I have a really nice job on my area.

My point of view is... We don't need to be scared, thing are not easy in Andalucia at the moment, but they are not impossible neither. 

Don't hesitate to ask me for anything you may need!


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## xabiaxica

Elena_gr said:


> Hello!
> 
> I moved to Seville on April, without a work, or anything, and I found in just two weeks a small job at Decathlon. I didn't like it a lot, but it was ok to start. Anyway, I moved my CV everywhere and now I have a really nice job on my area.
> 
> My point of view is... We don't need to be scared, thing are not easy in Andalucia at the moment, but they are not impossible neither.
> 
> Don't hesitate to ask me for anything you may need!


forgive me if I misunderstand your flags - they seem to suggest that you're Spanish?

that would make a difference, surely?


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## Elena_gr

I'm spanish, but the difference is not so big if you look fo a job in tourism, or something similar, because here there are not so many english speaker. That's an open door for you


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## xabiaxica

Elena_gr said:


> I'm spanish, but the difference is not so big if you look fo a job in tourism, or something similar, because here there are not so many english speaker. That's an open door for you


in my area, while speaking English might be an advantage - it seriously limits your options if you don't also speak Spanish


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## mrypg9

Elena_gr said:


> Hello!
> 
> I moved to Seville on April, without a work, or anything, and I found in just two weeks a small job at Decathlon. I didn't like it a lot, but it was ok to start. Anyway, I moved my CV everywhere and now I have a really nice job on my area.
> 
> My point of view is... We don't need to be scared, thing are not easy in Andalucia at the moment, but they are not impossible neither.
> 
> Don't hesitate to ask me for anything you may need!


The obvious point to make is that to get that job at Decathlon you are fluent in Spanish. 
The second is ....was it a temporary contract for the Christmas period?
I'm guessing the wages aren't good.

No-one is saying it's impossible to get a job. We're merely pointing out the obvious...which is that some people are less likely to get work than others.....very much less likely.

No offence intended...but who would want to move lock stock and barrel from the UK to work at Decathlon????

I went shopping today and saw an ad in the window of an upmarket shoe shop for a 'chica 29 -25, aprendiz'.
I'm guessing the hours are long and the pay low.


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## agua642

Absolutely spot on who would move lock stock & Barril .. To move to another Country nowadays you need to have researched & be prepped up for it. Previous life has to had been pretty poor if someone is prepared to move just to be a shop assistant on low salary, poor work conditions, low salary and so fourth ...


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## Elena_gr

At Decathlon wasn't Christmas period, but begining of summer (very low season here in Seville).
Well, I have to tell that when I moved to England, I was studing english for a while, but anyway, the job that I get was as a housekeeping. And I didn't like it, they pay me the less they could to be legal, and when my english level get better, I start working as a waitress. I had finish my universities studies, and I had work previusly in Spain in different areas, with a good salary and in relation with my career. But when I moved to England I had to take those kind of jobs to start. Thing aren't also easy for a spanish girl over there, trust me. 
What I mean it's that if you want something you need to start by a real begining. And, learn the lenguage could be a good start.
No offence intended neither, but moved somewhere is not easy, and the beginings use to be difficult for everyone, no matter how prepared we are. That depends on us and our inner strength


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## xabiaxica

Elena_gr said:


> At Decathlon wasn't Christmas period, but begining of summer (very low season here in Seville).
> Well, I have to tell that when I moved to England, I was studing english for a while, but anyway, the job that I get was as a housekeeping. And I didn't like it, they pay me the less they could to be legal, and when my english level get better, I start working as a waitress. I had finish my universities studies, and I had work previusly in Spain in different areas, with a good salary and in relation with my career. But when I moved to England I had to take those kind of jobs to start. Thing aren't also easy for a spanish girl over there, trust me.
> What I mean it's that if you want something you need to start by a real begining. And, learn the lenguage could be a good start.
> No offence intended neither, but moved somewhere is not easy, and the beginings use to be difficult for everyone, no matter how prepared we are. That depends on us and our inner strength


of course things aren't easy when you move to a new country where you speak little to none of the language

I'm curious - if you had had a family to support - would you have moved to England & taken them with you?

it sounds like you didn't have a job lined up before you went there - would you have done the same if you'd had children with you?


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## Elena_gr

*moved to england*

I don't have childrens, I had all my freedom to make a mistake and be the only affected. But in case of have them, I would take them with me everywhere. I found my first job in England from Spain, by an agency which is called Angloschola. Maybe you can find something similar over there. 
Are you a teacher? Do you know hor few native teachers are in Seville? Try by this area, try to learn spanish, there are some good courses here for that, and they are not expensive. I have a friend who is spanish teacher, maybe she can help you with that.


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## xabiaxica

Elena_gr said:


> I don't have childrens, I had all my freedom to make a mistake and be the only affected. But in case of have them, I would take them with me everywhere. I found my first job in England from Spain, by an agency which is called Angloschola. Maybe you can find something similar over there.
> Are you a teacher? Do you know hor few native teachers are in Seville? Try by this area, try to learn spanish, there are some good courses here for that, and they are not expensive. I have a friend who is spanish teacher, maybe she can help you with that.


could you have supported a family on what you were earning?


yes, I'm a teacher - I actually teach Spanish as well as English & maths as a private tutor - I do pretty well


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## Elena_gr

In England? No way! Salary was so low...! And England it's so expensive! But here life is cheaper. I'm sure you do pretty well, and you will do perfect here, because native teacher are needed. You could take a list of private schools, and come other english speaker schools. Also privates academies could be a good place to check.


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## xabiaxica

Elena_gr said:


> In England? No way! Salary was so low...! And England it's so expensive! But here life is cheaper. I'm sure you do pretty well, and you will do perfect here, because native teacher are needed. You could take a list of private schools, and come other english speaker schools. Also privates academies could be a good place to check.


pay is lower here too!!

I'm glad you said that you wouldn't have moved to the UK with children on the pay you were earning - so many think that they can move to Spain on whim & support a family on a low paid job - becuase that's all they'd get (if anything) without Spanish or a skill or qualification which is in demand

I might one day decide to move within Spain - but for now, while my girls are in secondary school, I'm staying put


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## mrypg9

Elena_gr said:


> At Decathlon wasn't Christmas period, but begining of summer (very low season here in Seville).
> Well, I have to tell that when I moved to England, I was studing english for a while, but anyway, the job that I get was as a housekeeping. And I didn't like it, they pay me the less they could to be legal, and when my english level get better, I start working as a waitress. I had finish my universities studies, and I had work previusly in Spain in different areas, with a good salary and in relation with my career. But when I moved to England I had to take those kind of jobs to start. Thing aren't also easy for a spanish girl over there, trust me.
> What I mean it's that if you want something you need to start by a real begining. And, learn the lenguage could be a good start.
> No offence intended neither, but moved somewhere is not easy, and the beginings use to be difficult for everyone, no matter how prepared we are. That depends on us and our inner strength


Well, I have to tell you that moving from the UK, first to the Czech Republic then after three years to Spain, was VERY easy for us, as for others in our position and for one simple reason: we weren't looking for work and we had more than enough money to continue living in Spain at the same level as we did in the UK.
That is the simple truth that many wannabe immigrants fail to comprehend...it's all about money, like most things in life.

There is another important difference: you are educated beyond the average, clearly, as you are a university graduate. So you will have a professional skill to offer and are more likely to find secure, well-remunerated employment than the less skilled and educated.

Another difference: you were young, had no dependents. Like Clemmie, you could take chances. That's not the case for people with families.

Finally, the job market in the UK is more flexible than in Spain. UK labour laws are amongst the laxest in Europe. Easy to find a job, albeit low-paid, easy to lose a job too! 

You seem to have all the qualities needed to get on in life...but the most important point is that you are Spanish in Spain, know the system, speak the language....which cannot be said for the monolingual plasterer for Plaistow, however ambitious or hardworking he may be!


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## Elena_gr

I don't know why you don't see that now I'm a spanish in Spain, but before I was a spanish in France, UK, or Andorra, and I can understand your point of view, but what I mean is that souldn't be so hard for a graduate teacher find a career here. We are not in the best moment, but Spain is such a strong country, kindly an open to everyone. That's how I see it


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## jojo

Elena_gr said:


> I don't know why you don't see that now I'm a spanish in Spain, but before I was a spanish in France, UK, or Andorra, and I can understand your point of view, but what I mean is that souldn't be so hard for a graduate teacher find a career here. We are not in the best moment, but Spain is such a strong country, kindly an open to everyone. That's how I see it


 I agree to a point - Spain is a strong and open country - *its a wonderful country*!!!! But sadly its been abused by, not only its own government and its ease to evade taxes, but by so many expats arriving and expecting to find work. The financial issues are being addressed (???), it will take time and for now, Spain needs to re-group and look after those who are already there, without more folk arriving. Hence the tightening up on the laws for new arrivals

Jo xxx


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## Elena_gr

Thanks, Jo, I'm agree with that. And I'm optimist with our future. From my point of view, every worker as xabiachica, looking for a future here, is really wellcome, and I whish all the best. 
We are not going to go trough this bad situation by the hand of our goverment, but by the hands of every worker.


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## mrypg9

Elena_gr said:


> I don't know why you don't see that now I'm a spanish in Spain, but before I was a spanish in France, UK, or Andorra, and I can understand your point of view, but what I mean is *that souldn't be so hard for a* *graduate teacher find a career* here. We are not in the best moment, but Spain is such a strong country, kindly an open to everyone. That's how I see it




I don't think anyone is denying that a graduate teacher could find work here. I'm a graduate, have worked as a teacher and have had job offers I didn't want both in Prague and in Spain!!

But my point and that of other posters is that yes, graduates or other professionals - chartered engineers, chartered accountants, high-level IT specialists and so on - have qualifications and skills that are exportable to most countries in the world, plumbers, plasterers, beauticians, hairdressers and other trades do not. There are very many Spanish plumbers, hairdressers etc. looking for work in Spain now.

And that is the simple point that we are still chewing over after twelve pages of posts....


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