# Health Care



## lozza7173 (Feb 6, 2011)

I know not every country has a health care like the NHS but how does it work in Canada? Is medical Insurance required? Is it done per individual or can it be done by family?


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

lozza7173 said:


> I know not every country has a health care like the NHS but how does it work in Canada? Is medical Insurance required? Is it done per individual or can it be done by family?


Canada has a universal health system. All doctor/hospital care is paid for from taxes. It does not cover drugs (except when in hospital) dental and many ancillary areas. More often than not such uncovered items are provided by an employer benefit scheme. For example my employer scheme combined with the Provincial scheme means I have *NEVER* personally paid any health/dental costs.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

*Not ALL is covered*



Auld Yin said:


> Canada has a universal health system. All doctor/hospital care is paid for from taxes. It does not cover drugs (except when in hospital) dental and many ancillary areas. More often than not such uncovered items are provided by an employer benefit scheme. For example my employer scheme combined with the Provincial scheme means I have *NEVER* personally paid any health/dental costs.


Saying that ALL doctor/hospital care is paid for from taxes is misleading, It is only covered if you have insurance paid for by either you or your employer or both, or are on welfare. It is not covered if you decide to pay for it yourself to get it done sooner, rather than waiting months, and in alot of times, years for surgery.. At least in BC.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

gringotim said:


> Saying that ALL doctor/hospital care is paid for from taxes is misleading, It is only covered if you have insurance paid for by either you or your employer or both, or are on welfare. It is not covered if you decide to pay for it yourself to get it done sooner, rather than waiting months, and in alot of times, years for surgery.. At least in BC.


And where do you buy this insurance? If someone immigrates to Canada (Ontario) and has no job and is not on welfare they are provided a OHIP card (without any payment) after three months. At this point they can go to a doctor or hospital for treatment and will not be asked for any payment.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

*Not all provinces the same*



Auld Yin said:


> And where do you buy this insurance? If someone immigrates to Canada (Ontario) and has no job and is not on welfare they are provided a OHIP card (without any payment) after three months. At this point they can go to a doctor or hospital for treatment and will not be asked for any payment.


"The universe does not revolve around Ontario", Canada is a big country and rules in one provonce are not always the same as in others. People thinking of moving to Canada should not be lead to believe otherwise. In BC, if your MSP (Medical Services Plan) premiums are not paid by the employer, then the individual must pay. The current monthly rates, fresh from their website are $60.50 for one person, $109 for 2, $121 for family of 3 or more. There is financial assistance for low income.


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## Heading South (Jan 29, 2011)

*Sad but True!*



gringotim said:


> "The universe does not revolve around Ontario", Canada is a big country and rules in one provonce are not always the same as in others. People thinking of moving to Canada should not be lead to believe otherwise. In BC, if your MSP (Medical Services Plan) premiums are not paid by the employer, then the individual must pay. The current monthly rates, fresh from their website are $60.50 for one person, $109 for 2, $121 for family of 3 or more. There is financial assistance for low income.


It is sad that people in eastern Canada think that everything that applies to them also applies to people in BC, and people thinking of moving to Canada don't realize that it is a big country and that healthcare, taxes, cost of living, housing, lifestyle, weather, employment, education, etc etc are not the same all across the country. My wife and I have our health insurance (MSP) premiums and extended medical and dental paid by our employers. but after been on a waiting list for over 21 months to have insurance covered vien surgery, she finally got tired of the constant pain and with no date in sight, opted to pay $2200 out of pocket to have it done. She has also been waiting almost 6 months to have an MRI, and my boss has been waiting 10 months for knee surgery and they still can't give him a date. Alot of people don't have insurance for dental, and as a result there are lots of people with very bad teeth because they can't afford to see a dentist. My wifes mom and stepdad, from BC, spend winters in Yuma Arizona and cross the border into Mexico to have their dental work done, By a Canadian born/trained dentist. She just had work done for $900 CDN, that she was quoted would cost $2800 in BC. They both have medical insurance in BC, but must still pay for hearing aids, so bought them in Mexico and saved $1700, (the exact same ones). If people coming to Canada from another country can get FREE health care, then maybe people who were born and raised, and have paid taxes in Canada all their life who don't get it for free should leave and them migrate back.


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## No.9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*sharp reminder*



Heading South said:


> My wifes mom and stepdad, from BC, spend winters in Yuma Arizona and cross the border into Mexico to have their dental work done, By a Canadian born/trained dentist. She just had work done for $900 CDN, that she was quoted would cost $2800 in BC. They both have medical insurance in BC, but must still pay for hearing aids, so bought them in Mexico and saved $1700, (the exact same ones). If people coming to Canada from another country can get FREE health care, then maybe people who were born and raised, and have paid taxes in Canada all their life who don't get it for free should leave and them migrate back.


Wow! as least it is not the US which is the most unequal society in the world (and the poor US public still believe that myth about their country being the greatest nation - very sad and tragic) 
.. I thought Canada followed much of the UK and the much maligned NHS. But stories like this remind me how good it really is back in the old country. Grass is always greener I suppose


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## gmonahan (Nov 5, 2011)

Health insurance in the US is dictated by the insurance companies. We didn't need health care reform, we needed health insurance reform.

I'm working on a relocation to Vancouver, and I was quite stunned by the benefits offered by the employer. Don't know if I must keep my US plan though.


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## Peg (Sep 22, 2011)

My friend in the USA nearly lost her house because of the cost of her daughter's chemo treatments. Their community came together and supported them - without that they would have lost their home.

Having a baby in British Columbia did not cost me one penny - monthly then weekly doctor's visits, ultrasound, 4 day hospital stay, follow-up by public health nurse. Different story for my friend in Pennsylvania.

Some children with life-threatening food allergies in the USA do not see an Allergist because they cannot afford it. Here, in Manitoba, children who need it get to see a Pediatric Allergist. Without sharing a long lesson in food allergies, that is a HUGE difference. 

My family does not have full coverage for our prescriptions, other medical etc but if it came to a set percentage of our income I think there would be a reduction in our income taxes to help us.

I will take our health care in Canada any day.


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## Ladyhawk (Sep 11, 2011)

gringotim said:


> Saying that ALL doctor/hospital care is paid for from taxes is misleading, It is only covered if you have insurance paid for by either you or your employer or both, or are on welfare. It is not covered if you decide to pay for it yourself to get it done sooner, rather than waiting months, and in alot of times, years for surgery.. At least in BC.


Where in Canada can you jump the queue and pay for your own care IN CANADA? I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for knee surgery and would have to go out of the country to buy it myself. 
Canada is one of the few countries in the world where you are simply not allowed to use your own money for your own health care if what you want is paid by the government's health insurance. I am in Ontario - is BC different? 
It's the waiting lists that make this a horrendous system. Yes once you get care, it's usually good. But while you wait and wait and wait, your condition deteriorates, you lose time and therefore life, and your full participation is lost to the economy and the culture and your family and friends. All of these are hidden costs to Canada which are not mentioned when the Canadian Health system brags about how little they spend per person compared to the US.

People in the US hate the ridiculous insurance system, but they have among the highest rates of satisfaction with the health care they get. And most of them do get health care. It should be possible to combine the best of both and get one that actually works for people.


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## Ladyhawk (Sep 11, 2011)

No.9 said:


> Wow! as least it is not the US which is the most unequal society in the world (and the poor US public still believe that myth about their country being the greatest nation - very sad and tragic)
> .. I thought Canada followed much of the UK and the much maligned NHS. But stories like this remind me how good it really is back in the old country. Grass is always greener I suppose


i fear the Canadian system is heading the way of the NHS.
Health care delayed is health care denied.


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## Cafreeb12 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ladyhawk said:


> i fear the Canadian system is heading the way of the NHS.
> Health care delayed is health care denied.


That issue is different depending on where you live as each province, even different cities present a different situation here. 

We have waits where I live but, they are largely for things like elective surgery. I did wait for gall bladder surgery but, not long and I was told if I had any pain to go to emerg and I'd have my surgery that day. I do know some people are waiting longer for certain things where I live but, then again my sister in the U.S. has been waiting over a year for access to someone who can do her ankle surgery. No system is perfect. So far, I've still preferred the health care I've got in Canada. My mother was a nurse and my dad a doctor in the U.S. so I always had access to the best doctors there. All in all with my sons serious health issues we'd not be able to afford to live in the U.S. at all. I DO think Canada made a big mistake off loading a lot of health care directly to the provinces. There have been more issues in recent years and more or less depending on your location. I DO hope they find workable solutions keeping in mind no system is perfect but, I would not support anymore privatization of services.


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## Ladyhawk (Sep 11, 2011)

Cafreeb, I totally understand your attitude toward the Canadian health care system, because it has worked out for you, having a child with expensive health issues. That truly is a blessing, and I would not want to see that taken away. 

But the price that we ALL pay for situations like yours, under this particular choice of health care management, is seeing substantial percentages of folks without doctors, often for years; seeing people wait unconscionable (and dangerous) amounts of time for treatment for even common problems; being cut off from some of the newest and most effective treatments and drugs because of their cost (so even here, even with the "benevolent" government paying the costs, the availability of needed care for YOU is determined by a third party, based on the bottom line!), and there is much less money available to fund research on new treatments or better ways of doing older ones. 

I do think privatization in some areas would be beneficial if there were competition to keep costs down. Just think if the government gave you, the patient, a chunk of cash for your health care - you would use it the way you use your own money, ie, you'd scout around looking for the best value for your money. That is what keeps prices as low as feasible. And there is privatization already for some things, because the government outsources certain things to private companies. Around here the blood work and other diagnostics are done by private businesses, paid for by the government. 

Personally, I would also be willing to start making some modest co-pays for some things, like $10 for a doctor's appointment, if that helped put more money into the system. This insistence on getting everything for free is totally unrealistic - it isn't free. And we don't have an inherent right to get medical care for free. It has to be paid for.


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## Peg (Sep 22, 2011)

Ladyhawk said:


> Personally, I would also be willing to start making some modest co-pays for some things, like $10 for a doctor's appointment, if that helped put more money into the system. This insistence on getting everything for free is totally unrealistic - it isn't free. And we don't have an inherent right to get medical care for free. It has to be paid for.


Me too! Price it either a package of cigaretttes or a six-pack of beer or a gourmet coffee :clap2:


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## Cafreeb12 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ladyhawk said:


> Cafreeb, I totally understand your attitude toward the Canadian health care system, because it has worked out for you, having a child with expensive health issues. That truly is a blessing, and I would not want to see that taken away.
> 
> But the price that we ALL pay for situations like yours, under this particular choice of health care management, is seeing substantial percentages of folks without doctors, often for years; seeing people wait unconscionable (and dangerous) amounts of time for treatment for even common problems; being cut off from some of the newest and most effective treatments and drugs because of their cost (so even here, even with the "benevolent" government paying the costs, the availability of needed care for YOU is determined by a third party, based on the bottom line!), and there is much less money available to fund research on new treatments or better ways of doing older ones.
> 
> ...


I don't see people who need and use our system as a _burden_ or a cause of the issues we are currently having at all. This system did indeed give my son excellent care with five specialists he needed at CHEO and eventually experimental advanced care I never could have afforded in the U.S. and without which he would not be here at all.In fact a large portion of the care that saved his life due to it being experimental would have been denied by a private for profit insurance company. I in fact did not just approve of the system here because of my sons serious health issues but, believed in National health care long before that. I do see health care as a rights issue though unlike many in the U.S. 

Many of the issues we are having here are the same in the U.S. and magnified when the sick are denied care or when they are kicked off their insurance. My sister awaits an ankle surgery now for two years straight because her HMO provider doesn't support the only surgeon in her city who does the surgery.* a third party indeed making health care decisions* In fact the insurance industry can and does deny procedures completely and many of those decisions are not made by a medical professional at all. 

All systems have these issues. In Ontario the wait list issues and doctor shortages *in my city this situation is MUCH better than five years ago* until many of the health care services were off loaded to the provinces. That's when a lot of these issues began. Having said that yes, they do need to address some of the longer wait lists in some locations. I think they are trying to do so judging from the OHIP website and other government medical sites. We HAVE seen some co pays and fees come into play. For instance some medical exams for work, missed appointments etc. emergency rooms charge for crutches, ambulance services are paid for through fees. There's getting to be quite a bit of it lately. 

 I never felt the system was free, it is paid for with our taxes which I see as a responsibility I am very happy to take on. In fact it's one area of taxes that I'm pleased to pay. I'm glad to know that if someone has cancer or is as ill as my son has been that they will not be bankrupted or worse not get care at all due to denial from a for profit insurance industry. I'm extremely grateful I did not have to deal with decisions being made by an insurance industry that make their money from denying care OR a HMO who would tell me which providers I can see or not see. 

There are issues indeed and I like many others would love to see them solved. I do not have a problem with small co pays but, really worry about the ravenous insurance industry as they have been champing at the bit for years to get further into the Canadian system. Most Canadians are happy with the system according to recent polls and national articles here and would not want it traded for something radically different. Small co pays would be fine as long as Canada kept control of those co pays and did not go so far down the path of privatization it caused more harm than good. I have a lot of concerns about two tiered health care. However, small payments for those who could afford it are an issue I think the government is already doing more of and will continue to do.

We have issues with wait lists more in some areas of the country than others. I've seen a lot of improvement where we live on some of the issues you state there. For instance it's much easier here to get a new GP than it was even three years ago. I'm not happy with everything here but, I think I'm much happier than I would be if I were still under a for profit health care system. I totally agree there are problems with this system but, I DO hope they find workable solutions that will allow Canada to continue with a National health care service for the most part. It's one of the main reasons I would not move back to the U.S. so I certainly don't want to see that here. I don't think most Canadians would disagree with that. I agree with realistic solutions that improve the Canadian system but, keep it Canadian. It's an interesting discussion but, I do believe Canada is trying to find it's own solutions, for instance where we live any person going to medical school can have some or all of their training paid for if they agree to become a family doctor for a period of five years or more in an area which needs GP's. Encouraging immigration of physicians and approving those physicians and specialists to practice sooner. I recently had surgery done by a Russian immigrant who gave me stellar medical care. 

So I do believe Canada IS trying to address these issues they know they have. I just pray they keep it Canadian.


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## Ladyhawk (Sep 11, 2011)

Cafreeb, like I said, I do understand your position. I am not an advocate of the US system. And there are huge problems, often the same problems, in both systems. 

One of the problems is that whenever you have a third party paying the bills, important decisions about your health care are made by non-medical bureaucrats. There are horror stories about that on both sides of the border. There are horror stories in both countries about people being denied care, people dying on waiting lists, people unable to get doctors, people unable to access a specialist.

In both countries you have costs spiraling out of control. You have more money spent on fighting fraud. You have demands made on health care providers in both countries that cause huge doctor burnout and early retirement of the best ones.

In both countries you have people who love their system and would not trade it for the other one. 
In both countries the majority of people get the health care they need, but not all the health care they want.
So both systems result in very similar problems. I believe there are better ways of doing this, and both systems need improvements badly. 
One big problem, however, is that people on both sides are afraid to allow changes to the system for exactly the same reason - they are afraid they'll lose what they already have. And that is the main reason that problems take forever to be resolved.


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## Cafreeb12 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ladyhawk said:


> Cafreeb, like I said, I do understand your position. I am not an advocate of the US system. And there are huge problems, often the same problems, in both systems.
> 
> One of the problems is that whenever you have a third party paying the bills, important decisions about your health care are made by non-medical bureaucrats. There are horror stories about that on both sides of the border. There are horror stories in both countries about people being denied care, people dying on waiting lists, people unable to get doctors, people unable to access a specialist.
> 
> ...


I hope there are better ways of doing it. You are right, I see the U.S. system as far worse in many ways. I have never seen someone turned away for care completely here. IF and it's a big IF two tiered were a solution I'd look at it but, like I said I'm truly worried about the insurance industry getting in there. In Canada right now there are criteria but, decisions about your health care are made between you and your doctor. That set of criteria aka "triage" has caused a lot of problems but, at least most decisions are still made by someone with a medical degree and not some insurance agent. I find that terrifying. You are so right. lol. And I'm probably one of those people who do not want to see so much change that we lose what we have. I'm actually laughing at that because in which case I will admit to being part of the problem. lol. Like I said I'd love to see Canada come up with workable, long term solutions that are uniquely Canadian and leave the for profit insurance industry out of it. I think that IS doable but, it's not going to be easy at all. I still think off loading to the provinces caused a lot of these problems we have now. I'm really interested in this topic. Maybe there is something more *i* should be doing pro actively to help change things.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Ladyhawk said:


> Where in Canada can you jump the queue and pay for your own care IN CANADA? I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for knee surgery and would have to go out of the country to buy it myself.


Hi, your family doctor was supposed to use his contacts and manage that. In some cases, they might ask you to travel to a different province for surgery depending on your case. If treatment is not available in Canada, OHIP (if you are in ontario) will pay your costs for treatment where is offered



Ladyhawk said:


> Canada is one of the few countries in the world where you are simply not allowed to use your own money for your own health care if what you want is paid by the government's health insurance. I am in Ontario - is BC different?


I share the same views. And That's why health has to be a FEDERAL undertaking rather than provincial. Even if you have insurance, it does not mean you will get what you want on the spot. Why would make you think that just because you ve got insurance you should be the first on the list ? In order for this to happen, Canada must allow private hospitals/care to operate in the country and then people who can afford would buy insurance. FAT CHANCE. Insurance on top of taxes are killing



Ladyhawk said:


> It's the waiting lists that make this a horrendous system. Yes once you get care, it's usually good. But while you wait and wait and wait, your condition deteriorates, you lose time and therefore life, and your full participation is lost to the economy and the culture and your family and friends. All of these are hidden costs to Canada which are not mentioned when the Canadian Health system brags about how little they spend per person compared to the US.


I totally agree with that, Canadian health system works for some and does not work for others. Governments in all provinces are aware of the issue. The Federal government knows about it, but there is a lack of doctors. Ask your doctor if he could check with the hospitals in Ottawa or in the surroundings. They do not have long waiting lists. 



Ladyhawk said:


> People in the US hate the ridiculous insurance system, but they have among the highest rates of satisfaction with the health care they get. And most of them do get health care. It should be possible to combine the best of both and get one that actually works for people.


We have more people sick than doctors. In US the number of patients per doctor is probably the half or 1/3 of Canada's (if not less)


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## JackieInNovaScotia (Jul 27, 2009)

Most Canadians believe that their health service is like the UK, but it isn't. We came from the UK in 2006 and were quite surprised that we needed a health insurance coverage. The TV commercials out here make you realise that if you all of a sudden become really ill with cancer and don't have any proper health cover you will end up losing your house to pay for the medication that's needed. It's quite sad to think that everything isn't covered, and we've also found out that each province is different. It's not cheap to live out here... My husband and I are 48 and 52 and thankfully healthy at this point and we pay Blue Cross health insurance $215 per month! Blue Cross are the best in Nova Scotia, which is where we are, especially as we are self employed, but other provinces have other providers.
Insurance Quotes Nova Scotia


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## marko2 (Feb 21, 2012)

Your healthcare monthly payment in Canada is based on your last year's revenues, so the less you earn, the less the payment is. It is a very good system.


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## JackieInNovaScotia (Jul 27, 2009)

marko2 said:


> Your healthcare monthly payment in Canada is based on your last year's revenues, so the less you earn, the less the payment is. It is a very good system.


This isn't the case in Nova Scotia. Although I do know that out west in British Columbia that there is a fairer system for those with low incomes. Each province is different and many Canadians themselves don't realise that there are differences in health cover across the country.


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## gpeperat (Feb 20, 2012)

Canada has a fairly healthcare system. Here in BC you pay a monthly fee (individual or per family) for the provincial medical plan. You can a discount depending on your income, or you family's income.


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