# Is this it? Spain insolvent?



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

A link I saw on another forum whilst looking for info about something else...
Spain is officially insolvent: get your money out while you still can – Telegraph Blogs


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

yes i saw this as well this morning. Is it telling us anything new?


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## doro (Aug 1, 2010)

I honestly find the article title irresponsible. From a simple news to panic is just one step. Spain is in trouble, we all know it, but this kind of article title does not help anyone.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

doro said:


> I honestly find the article title irresponsible. From a simple news to panic is just one step. Spain is in trouble, we all know it, but this kind of article title does not help anyone.


Yes, I was shocked by the headline!


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

Read the comments which follow that scaremongering article.

:heh:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

well the self flagellating group will like this LOL


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

The thought the whole world was insolvent ?

I owe a trillion, you owe 5 trillion etc etc .............. look leaders pop around here for a cuppa & I will broker a deal where we all start afresh


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Complete and utter bollocks.

Nations which are 'insolvent' in the sense that they cannot meet their debts simply default.
Apparently the first recorded default was in the fourteenth century when one of the King Edwards was unable to repay his debt to a Florentine banker. Then Charles 32, I think it was, defaulted in 1600 something.

Many nations have defaulted in recent history. No big deal really. But as has been said, something else for timorous British immigrants to ponder and worry about over their cornflakes.

Why don't these Jeremiahs just pack up and go home and leave the rest of us to enjoy our lives without their whingeing....Or maybe to France


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Why don't these Jeremiahs just pack up and go home and leave the rest of us to enjoy our lives without their whingeing....Or maybe to France


Mary, behave yourself!!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Mary, behave yourself!!




teehee


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Thick sttttoooopid man! Social panic he could create with his stttooooopid comments. 

Pah!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Complete and utter bollocks.
> 
> Nations which are 'insolvent' in the sense that they cannot meet their debts simply default.
> Apparently the first recorded default was in the fourteenth century when one of the King Edwards was unable to repay his debt to a Florentine banker. Then Charles 32, I think it was, defaulted in 1600 something.
> ...


Various Spanish monarchs have declared bankruptcy and defaulted on their debts, particularly after the Jews were kicked out. The first that I can recall was in 1557 by Charles V, then 1575, 1596, 1607, 1627, 1647, 1643, 1680, and maybe more since. I haven't yet studied much of the history between the Imperial period 1469-1716 and the 20th century. Have just finished the Visigoths (not a good book - jumps about more than a flea on a hot plate) and am taking a break from heavy histories by reading the Box of Delights.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

It is exceptionally hard for a state with its own fiat currency to default. If anybody knows of any cases of this happening then I'd be most interested. Argentina had its own currency when it defaulted 10 or so years ago, but I believe it had pegged it to the dollar somehow.

Warner's article simply points out that according to the IMF projections, Spain will not be able to reduce its structural deficit. Eventually it would have to take on debt in order to pay interest on its existing debt. Which means Spain would be insolvent. In fact there is quite a lot Spain could do to avoid this scenario, but I doubt whether it has the politicians capable of doing it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> It is exceptionally hard for a state with its own fiat currency to default. If anybody knows of any cases of this happening then I'd be most interested. Argentina had its own currency when it defaulted 10 or so years ago, but I believe it had pegged it to the dollar somehow.
> 
> Warner's article simply points out that according to the IMF projections, Spain will not be able to reduce its structural deficit. Eventually it would have to take on debt in order to pay interest on its existing debt. Which means Spain would be insolvent. In fact there is quite a lot Spain could do to avoid this scenario, but I doubt whether it has the politicians capable of doing it.


There have been hundreds of such defaults....Britain in 1932 and Poland in 1981 to give two instances.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> There have been hundreds of such defaults....Britain in 1932 and Poland in 1981 to give two instances.


The British coupon cut in 1932 was not a default. Not sure if Poland actually defaulted in 1981 either - do you have any details? thanks


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> The British coupon cut in 1932 was not a default. Not sure if Poland actually defaulted in 1981 either - do you have any details? thanks


I'm not talking about the coupon cut from 5 to 3.5% In 1932 Britain and France defaulted on War debt to the US.

The Polish debt to US and other banks was repaid by the Reagan Administration. This was at the time of the imposition of martial law under General Jarusielski Spelling probably wrong!.


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## Maple Sugar (May 5, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Why don't these Jeremiahs just pack up and go home and leave the rest of us to enjoy our lives without their whingeing....Or maybe to France


No, thanks! We like you all exactly where you are.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm not talking about the coupon cut from 5 to 3.5% In 1932 Britain and France defaulted on War debt to the US.
> 
> The Polish debt to US and other banks was repaid by the Reagan Administration. This was at the time of the imposition of martial law under General Jarusielski Spelling probably wrong!.


I believe the default on the inter-allied debt was more linked to the German default, and more a case of "if they're not paying us then we're not paying you" rather than a default due to insolvency. But anyways, the point I was getting at was that with your own currency and access to the debt markets, you can avoid technical default simply by QE'ing ad infinitum. Well, not quite ad infinitum, but certainly enough to get by without a default. It will eventually destroy the economy of course, but there'd be no reason not to pay the debts.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Chopera said:


> I believe the default on the inter-allied debt was more linked to the German default, and more a case of "if they're not paying us then we're not paying you" rather than a default due to insolvency. But anyways, the point I was getting at was that with your own currency and access to the debt markets, you can avoid technical default simply by QE'ing ad infinitum. Well, not quite ad infinitum, but certainly enough to get by without a default. It will eventually destroy the economy of course, but there'd be no reason not to pay the debts.


That is what the UK and the US have been doing which is why it is so infuriating that they have been playing the holier than thou card over various Eurozone countries that don't 'own' their own currency and can't keep themselves afloat by QE


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## Gobeyond60 (Sep 27, 2012)

Today I have seen Franco back graffiti on walls in villages round here. Then this in Telegraph.....

Mon 13 May 2013	Updated 11 mins ago



SECTIONS
Home » Finance »
Spanish prelate fears 'mutual hatred' over euro crisis

Braulio Rodriguez, the Archbishop of Toledo, has warned that soaring unemployment in Spain and across southern Europe has become "very dangerous".


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## doro (Aug 1, 2010)

I really doubt Spain will crash. Let's be realist. That will not happen. EU will NOT let that happen. And EU will survive crisis, with all sacrifice. Who want old currency back is just a nostalgic. Euro as currency is here to stay. EU economy is way to powerful to do not survive.

What Spain needs now, is a set of economical measure to rise up individual/small and medium business, minimize bureaucracy, and not rising taxes. I've seen the "rise taxes" experiment in Romania who failed with 5 stars. That's not the way to go. Let peoples do business easy and will see the results fast.

As for UK, do not get me wrong, I never see UK full in EU with Euro currency. You guys still have yards and don't want meter, you still drive on the other side of the road. I doubt you will ever abandon pounds. Maybe that's the reason you do not like EU.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

doro said:


> I really doubt Spain will crash.


I guess it depends on what you mean by "crash" but I think most people consider Spain to have crashed already.



doro said:


> Let's be realist. That will not happen. EU will NOT let that happen. And EU will survive crisis, with all sacrifice. Who want old currency back is just a nostalgic. Euro as currency is here to stay. EU economy is way to powerful to do not survive.


I think some of the people who want their old currency back do so because they and their families are suffering like never before, and their children's futures are being destroyed, rather than nostalgia. If you think that the EU is so powerful that they will sacrifice everything in order to save their currency then you should be worried. As it happens I agree with you, I think they will destroy everything in order to preserve their currency - their jobs depend on it - it's just that Idon't happen to see that as a good thing.



doro said:


> What Spain needs now, is a set of economical measure to rise up individual/small and medium business, minimize bureaucracy, and not rising taxes. I've seen the "rise taxes" experiment in Romania who failed with 5 stars. That's not the way to go. Let peoples do business easy and will see the results fast.


Yes I agree with this. Spain needs a revolution - a complete removal of the political class, and a good many funcionarios can go as well. To be replaced by a system that allows people to go about their business without the government sticking its grubby little hands in. I can see why the Spanish are so pro EU - because their domestic politicians are even worse.



doro said:


> As for UK, do not get me wrong, I never see UK full in EU with Euro currency. You guys still have yards and don't want meter, you still drive on the other side of the road. I doubt you will ever abandon pounds.


The UK switched to the metric system 30 years ago and over a third of the world drive on the left. The UK did investigate switching to the right a long time ago but it was found to be prohibitively expensive.



doro said:


> Maybe that's the reason you do not like EU.


Nope. There are more obvious reasons than that.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> I guess it depends on what you mean by "crash" but I think most people consider Spain to have crashed already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The phrase 'Spain has crashed' means little in the context of everyday economic life. Yes, 27% of people seeking work are unemployed. But by definition then 73% are not. Shops and bars are open for business, people in work get paid, government pensions are received. So what do we mean by 'crash', I wonder...

As for exiting the eurozone: that will not cure any problems and could in the short-term further deepen catastrophe. We need to focus on the fundamental, structural problems that have led to the current crisis. Replacing one currency with another is merely sticking plaster over arterial bleeding. Until the current neo-liberal economic model is replaced by one which replaces the market society with a social market philosophy, tinkering with what are essentially peripherals is pointless. Politicians and economists are like mechanics trying to start an engine with the wrong tools and without realising that anyway the engine is ****ed!
I don't like talking in generalities when referring to a new more socially responsive model so I would point as a model worthy of consideration that which helped propel Germany post 1948 into one of the most prosperous nations in Europe, if not the world. This model, known as Ordo economics, is based on a responsible corporatism with individual reward coupled with a good social wage, plus employee participation in industrial decision-making, the famed 'Mitbestimmung'.. 

The same with loose usage of words like 'revolution'. Meaningless without some substantive input. Whatever happens in Spain or elsewhere, one GOVERNMENT will be replaced by another GOVERNMENT and those involved in it will be POLITICIANS. It's what people do and stand for that counts.

Why are the Spanish so 'pro EU'? Well, I'm not so sure that 'the Spanish' are. It seems to be a characteristic of the ruling elites of countries that have experienced repressive regimes to be enthusiasts for the European project. Not only Spain but the former socialist states. Even the Czech Republic, a Eurosceptic country compared to, say Poland, plans to introduce the euro in five years' time. 
This could well be because having been cut off from the post-war mainstream of democratic civil society they see belonging to a European community as a way of reentering that shared European world.
And the generous development grants, of course...


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## doro (Aug 1, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> The phrase 'Spain has crashed' means little in the context of everyday economic life. Yes, 27% of people seeking work are unemployed. But by definition then 73% are not. Shops and bars are open for business, people in work get paid, government pensions are received. So what do we mean by 'crash', I wonder...


Sorry I disagree. You do not keep a country with bars and shops. 73% still have to work, that's good. But can be even worst. I know a few European company's, who are in panic mode since last years because of Asian compention.



mrypg9 said:


> As for exiting the eurozone: that will not cure any problems and could in the short-term further deepen catastrophe. We need to focus on the fundamental, structural problems that have led to the current crisis. Replacing one currency with another is merely sticking plaster over arterial bleeding. Until the current neo-liberal economic model is replaced by one which replaces the market society with a social market philosophy, tinkering with what are essentially peripherals is pointless. Politicians and economists are like mechanics trying to start an engine with the wrong tools and without realising that anyway the engine is ****ed!
> I don't like talking in generalities when referring to a new more socially responsive model so I would point as a model worthy of consideration that which helped propel Germany post 1948 into one of the most prosperous nations in Europe, if not the world. This model, known as Ordo economics, is based on a responsible corporatism with individual reward coupled with a good social wage, plus employee participation in industrial decision-making, the famed 'Mitbestimmung'..
> 
> The same with loose usage of words like 'revolution'. Meaningless without some substantive input. Whatever happens in Spain or elsewhere, one GOVERNMENT will be replaced by another GOVERNMENT and those involved in it will be POLITICIANS. It's what people do and stand for that counts.


Replacing one currency with other does not solve the problems indeed. And peoples did not lost they jobs because of Euro as currency. Unfortunately, "some" euro political leaders have no idea how economy works besides books, and they totally ignore our world actual context, where Asian products conquer the world every day.

Speaking if political model, I am not sure which one works in our days. But I am sure things could be much better with less bureaucracy and corruption.



mrypg9 said:


> Why are the Spanish so 'pro EU'? Well, I'm not so sure that 'the Spanish' are. It seems to be a characteristic of the ruling elites of countries that have experienced repressive regimes to be enthusiasts for the European project. Not only Spain but the former socialist states. Even the Czech Republic, a Eurosceptic country compared to, say Poland, plans to introduce the euro in five years' time.
> This could well be because having been cut off from the post-war mainstream of democratic civil society they see belonging to a European community as a way of reentering that shared European world.
> And the generous development grants, of course...


No point to start a west vs east Europeans. We are all the same, same ideals, same culture. We are part of Europe. What happen now is just a natural transition to a united Europe, what should happen many many years ago. I only hope the politicians will handle this well.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

doro said:


> Sorry I disagree. You do not keep a country with bars and shops. 73% still have to work, that's good. But can be even worst. I know a few European company's, who are in panic mode since last years because of Asian compention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To start with your last point: no, sorry, we are not 'all the same'. We do not have the same culture as Eastern Europeans, not at all. We do not share your history, traditions, religion or political culture. Neither is there unity among Eastern Europeans. Hungarians, Poles, Romanians, Slovakians are all very different peoples. Hungary doesn't even share the same original Indo-European language as other Slavs and Western European peoples. Its language is from the Finno-Ugrian language family. Of course we are all Europeans and all human but we are most definitely not the same.

I have lived and spent time in many Eastern European countries. What is clear about the European Union in its current state is the failure of the attempt to meld together countries with not only different cultures and traditions but which are at different levels of economic development. This is one of the main problems of the eurozone. 

As a British person I do not really want to be part of the EU *as it stands.* It is not the Europe I voted to stay in in 1975. No-one has asked me or any European voter if we want to be part of a united states of Europe. If we were asked, I'd wager the answer would be a resounding 'NO'. The EU is not 'Europe', you know. It's a trading bloc which has been taken over by neo-liberals to fit their project. The free movement of people, goods, capital benefits only the global corporations and money markets. Many people in the UK do not want unrestricted immigration from the EU and do not make the mistake of confusing this with racism because it's about numbers and strains on existing services. It could easily become racist though if people bring their very different cultures and show no signs of adapting to our way of doing things. What's good for British imigrants in Spain is good for immigrants to Britain, no?

People do lose their jobs because of being stick in the eurozone. Spain would be better off in many ways if it had control of its own currency. The euro is simply set at too high a rate for countries like Spain, Greece and Portugal to compete in the export market. At least we in the UK have control over our £ and interest rates and can determine our own value plus print money....not that I'm happy with that!

Asian competition has cut into western import markets since the 1970s, nothing new there. We've coped, albeit not that well. But what is happening now is that astute countries such as Germany are focusing big time on the Asian market and succeeding with increased exports to China in particular, especially of luxury goods.

As for which political model 'works' - well, we know which one doesn't. Whilst I don't believe you can fit 'foreign' models neatly over countries with diverse cultures and traditions, you can take from what works elements which can be adapted to new conditions.


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

It's at times like this I'm glad we're skint ........ you see, there's an advantage to everything.... you just have to find it



Doggy


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## doro (Aug 1, 2010)

mrypg9

When I said "the same", maybe I did not give the right dimension. If you want to see the real difference, go visit any arab country, or asian one, and you will feel the difference at first step.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

doro said:


> mrypg9
> 
> When I said "the same", maybe I did not give the right dimension. If you want to see the real difference, go visit any arab country, or asian one, and you will feel the difference at first step.


I have visited several Arab countries. Their cultures, traditions and histories are as different to the Anglo-Saxon as are the Romanian, Hungarian etc. We share only our common humanity.
Your Romanian culture has more in common with that of the Mediterranean world than that of Britain or Germany.
There is nothing wrong with recognising cultural differences- in fact we should celebrate them. They are powerful forces which we ignore at our peril.

When I lived in Prague I was told by many Czechs that they shared the 'western European culture'. No way! You can't spend the past few centuries living first under Austrian rule then after a brief interlude of indepence five decades under first Nazi then Soviet rule without this having a profound effect on your way of life and outlook.

For one thing, geography has had a great influence on British history,tradition and culture. Being an island people brought us an overseas empire and has saved us since 1066 from foreign invasion. All that helped shape our peculiar culture just as history,geography and religion shaped the culture of Romania.



.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> To start with your last point: no, sorry, we are not 'all the same'. We do not have the same culture as Eastern Europeans, not at all. We do not share your history, traditions, religion or political culture. Neither is there unity among Eastern Europeans. Hungarians, Poles, Romanians, Slovakians are all very different peoples. Hungary doesn't even share the same original Indo-European language as other Slavs and Western European peoples. Its language is from the Finno-Ugrian language family. Of course we are all Europeans and all human but we are most definitely not the same.
> 
> I have lived and spent time in many Eastern European countries. What is clear about the European Union in its current state is the failure of the attempt to meld together countries with not only different cultures and traditions but which are at different levels of economic development. This is one of the main problems of the eurozone.
> 
> ...



Spot on.

I do believe that Spain would, in the long run, be better out of the Euro. However it would involve more pain short term (inflation) but it wouldn't work because the political will isn't there to radically change and capitalise on what Spain has and does well. Self employed autonomo payment level is one example, red tape in setting up a business another. The recent apparent clamp down on people letting out rooms or whole properties is too. Spain should be trying to double its tourist business not discouraging it. All those folk spend which is good for tax revenues. I am afraid the politicians just plod on like weary farmers hoping something will turn up.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

IMHO and don't shoot me down because I am no expert and have long since lost real interest as I really feel that my opinion, wherever i live does not count anymore, however I watch and still vote , but i think most people in Europe, feel they would be better with there own currency, values and culture rather than the homogenized society that those in power want, we are all humans but it is our diversity that makes us interesting, except Germany who it seems to me are the main benifactors of everything euro......


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## jay5858 (Feb 6, 2012)

I had an e.mail earlier about this insolvency thing but I still want to move to spain with my wife within the next 2 years and have been looking at the property prices, can somebody tell me why they really are so cheap, maybe the long term ex pats will know a lot more than what we hear about in the UK, my daughter has friends there and they still keep asking her to go over to carry on her teaching with spanish students as she did last year, so it doesnt seem to make sense what the scaremongoring is all about, I hope this is the right thread


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jay5858 said:


> I had an e.mail earlier about this insolvency thing but I still want to move to spain with my wife within the next 2 years and have been looking at the property prices, can somebody tell me why they really are so cheap, maybe the long term ex pats will know a lot more than what we hear about in the UK, my daughter has friends there and they still keep asking her to go over to carry on her teaching with spanish students as she did last year, so it doesnt seem to make sense what the scaremongoring is all about, I hope this is the right thread


Unfortunately some proprty agents quote silly low prices as a "come on" and while true may relate to a ruin that will cost you many thousands to make habitable or to a property that is "Oh, I'm sorry, that one has been sold, now I've got this...". You really need to get yourself on the ground and see what is available and at what prices.

However, first off, you need to decide just what you want and what you don't want, then where you are going to find it. There's a whole lot of work to be done if you are thinking of moving here. It is not a "quick let's pop over to Spain and buy a place that we can retire to", at least it isn't if you are thinking of making a success of it. The alternative: you come, you spend, you lose all your money, you go back with your tail between your legs.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Unfortunately some proprty agents quote silly low prices as a "come on" and while true may relate to a ruin that will cost you many thousands to make habitable or to a property that is "Oh, I'm sorry, that one has been sold, now I've got this...". You really need to get yourself on the ground and see what is available and at what prices.
> 
> However, first off, you need to decide just what you want and what you don't want, then where you are going to find it. There's a whole lot of work to be done if you are thinking of moving here. It is not a "quick let's pop over to Spain and buy a place that we can retire to", at least it isn't if you are thinking of making a success of it. The alternative: you come, you spend, you lose all your money, you go back with your tail between your legs.



Good posy

As a couple planning to move at the end of the year, I have to agree with Baldi.

We have already been once and viewed property ranging from fab to you are having a laugh, at all different prices. I think it is also important to walk away, breath and then re-think.

For us the main and most difficult decision is where. we have been to Andalusia, we are now visiting another area, What type of area do you want, we have always believed that for us a rural location is what we want, HOWEVER having visited and seen what is available we are now leaning towards another type of house, although nothing is certain, which is why we intend taking our time. We will rent initially UNLESS we find something that we love, because the area is the most important thing. 

Also if you want to move to Spain permanently there are lots of other things to take into consideration not just where to live, income, tax, cost of living, residency etc and the acceptance that it is an every changing scenario. BUT I hope like us you enjoy the research,planning x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jay5858 said:


> I had an e.mail earlier about this insolvency thing but I still want to move to spain with my wife within the next 2 years and have been *looking at the property prices, can somebody tell me why they really are so cheap*, maybe the long term ex pats will know a lot more than what we hear about in the UK, my daughter has friends there and they still keep asking her to go over to carry on her teaching with spanish students as she did last year, so it doesnt seem to make sense what the scaremongoring is all about, I hope this is the right thread


Property prices have fallen by 50% or more because the construction boom has turned to bust. It's quite simple, really. All about the law of supply and demand.

Scenario: Northern Europeans attracted to Spain started buying property, often at silly prices. Demand pushed up prices. Greedy or short-sighted or both developers built more and more and as could have been predicted over-supply led to falling demand and a price crash.
Elementary economics.

As for work here: 27% of Spaniards -seven million - are unemployed. If your daughter is a qualified teacher with recognised credentials she may find work but I doubt such work will be well paid.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Property prices have fallen by 50% or more because the construction boom has turned to bust. It's quite simple, really. All about the law of supply and demand.
> 
> Scenario: Northern Europeans attracted to Spain started buying property, often at silly prices. Demand pushed up prices. Greedy or short-sighted or both developers built more and more and as could have been predicted over-supply led to falling demand and a price crash.
> Elementary economics.
> ...


and this does not include the effect of the US sub-prime mortgage fiasco that pushed up property prices there until the bubble burst and there was insufficient real equity in the properties to cover the mortgages thereby causing the property price crash there which dominoed across the Atlantic to affect all the other markets.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

jay5858 said:


> I had an e.mail earlier about this insolvency thing but I still want to move to spain with my wife within the next 2 years and have been looking at the property prices, can somebody tell me why they really are so cheap, maybe the long term ex pats will know a lot more than what we hear about in the UK, my daughter has friends there and they still keep asking her to go over to carry on her teaching with spanish students as she did last year, so it doesnt seem to make sense what the scaremongoring is all about, I hope this is the right thread


Property prices are not cheap. They are simply going back to something like normality after one of the most ridiculous bubbles ever. What scaremongering are you referring to?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jay5858 said:


> I had an e.mail earlier about this insolvency thing but I still want to move to spain with my wife within the next 2 years and have been looking at the property prices, can somebody tell me why they really are so cheap, maybe the long term ex pats will know a lot more than what we hear about in the UK, my daughter has friends there and they still keep asking her to go over to carry on her teaching with spanish students as she did last year, so it doesnt seem to make sense what the scaremongoring is all about, I hope this is the right thread


As people have said, the cheap prices are due mainly to the huge surpless that was built. The bubble burst not just here, but all over Europe so add to that surpless the number of Europeans that were going to buy and that didn't. Then add to that the number of immigrants that have gone home, above all South Americans who have received money to leave the country. And then add the people who are evicted for non payment of mortgage which I recently read was 40 people a day IN MADRID!! (I don't know how true that is, but that's what I read) So the banks are swimming in repossessed properties.
I don't think it wrong to be worried about Spain and what's happening here. The country has been severely damaged by the financial crisis and whilst it has been said that we'll have recovered by 2018, it has also been said that it's not likely that people will recover their previous standard of living - mainly because the high standards of before were "false"
However, that doesn't necessarily mean that people shouldn't come over, but you dohave to research very well the area you want to go to, the long term job prospects if you need one and the long term prospects for young people if you have any in the family. Unemployment for under 25's is 57.2% for example. That's not going to be solved within a few years...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> Property prices are not cheap. They are simply going back to something like normality after one of the most ridiculous bubbles ever. What scaremongering are you referring to?


I think it depends where you are. What you say is probably true for Madrid. In some parts in the south of Spain they'll give you a house free if you buy a bag of carrots. Well, not literally.
Mrypg9 had a good story about a sign near her house advertising houses for sale


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