# Visa questions



## hollyherr

Hello there! I am a new member and just trying to familiarize myself with the site, so forgive me if my question has been answered a million times somewhere else.

My husband and I are planning on moving to Italy (Lecce) in May. We currently have an apartment rented through Airbnb for 2 months and our thought was to continue to do this through a year, finding a new region in italy every 2 months or so, so we can experience many areas before we make a permanent decision to buy a place. 

My question is the visa. We want to stay longer than the 90 days, but in order for us to get the residence visa we have to show that we have a signed agreement for a long-term rental or residence. Has anyone here dealt with that issue and if so, is there a way to get around it somehow? We certainly can't afford to come back to the US every 3 months and then go back.

Any help will sure be appreciated.

Thanks

hollyherr


----------



## accbgb

Which consulate in the US will you be dealing with for your visa? Some seem to be more forgiving than others.

Having said that, are you planning to retire to Italy and seek an "Elective Residency" visa? Or, are you looking for a work visa?

Presuming the former (as the latter is nearly impossible to obtain for us "normal" folks), then you will most likely need to have a minimum 13 month lease in hand before applying for your visa. The bigger problem is, the visa only permits you to enter Italy; once in Italy, you have a very limited amount of time to obtain residency and a PdiS (Permesso di Soggiorno, or Permission to Stay). You can't wander around Italy for 12 months while you decide where you want to settle because you HAVE TO settle someplace in order to do the above (residency & permesso). And that, once again, requires a proper lease (or purchase) of a "suitable" property (running water, minimum size requirements depending on number in your family, hot water, etc.).

Sorry, that's just the way it usually works.


----------



## Bevdeforges

And actually, you can't just keep returning to the US. That 90 days is only 90 days in any rolling 180 day period. So, you'd have to return to the US (or at least somewhere outside the Schengen area) for a full 90 days after spending 90 days in Italy.

Your best option would be to plan on a base of operations in a single location, and then make extended forays to "visit" other areas in Italy during your first year in the country. After the first year you can decide whether to stay where you're settled, or to move elsewhere.

But honestly, if you're looking for "permanent residence" you really need to stay in one location for a good year or more to properly size up what it's like to live in an area.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## hollyherr

Thanks so much for the reply. I will be dealing with the consulate in San Francisco and yes, we want to retire to Italy. So I guess I have just one more question (I'm sure that's not really true!), but when we go to Italy in May (we have a place rented for two months), can we find a "permanent" place to live during the time we are there and then apply for the "elective residency" visa while in Italy?


----------



## accbgb

Sorry, but no.

Visas must be applied for at the consulate which represents your place of legal residence which will remain the US until you manage to become legal in Italy - something you cannot do until you have a visa. 

And, I don't want to be negative but I DO want to advise you to enusre that when you find a place to stay that you ensure you have a way out of any rental contract should the need arise.

Elective Residency visas are not an absolutely "sure thing" - there are income requirements (some would say "significant" income requirements) and other potential issues. I don't know how much you have researched this but wanted to point this out.

And, again, I always ask this question: do either of you have any Italian blood? If yes, then there is at least a possibility of Italian citizenship jure sanguinis (by blood right). With citizenship, all these other issues are moot.


----------



## BBCWatcher

To expand on this lease requirement a bit, in order to qualify for an Elective Residence visa you need to demonstrate the intention to reside in Italy for more than one year. A 13 month (or longer) lease, or ownership of an adequate residence, is one important part of how you demonstrate that intention.

That said, the lease could have an exit clause -- that's allowed. For example, if the lease allows early termination with payment of a penalty (such as loss of your security deposit), that's OK. The "headline" lease term must be in excess of one year. Also, there's no prohibition on having a formal lease with somebody you know well, such as a close friend or family member.


----------



## hollyherr

Thank you again for the information. Not one drop of Italian blood unfortunately (which is probably why I'm so attracted to it). But I am a concert pianist which gives me "musical" blood, which I think makes me Italian in spirit I'm sure 

I have researched the income requirements and feel comfortable there. And you've made it clear that I will have to have a lease in place BEFORE I leave for Italy in May. Thanks so much.


----------



## BBCWatcher

You'll need the lease to apply for an ER visa, so well before leaving for Italy. And, assuming you do not have and cannot obtain EU/EEA status of some kind, you cannot stay in Italy all that long unless you first obtain an ER visa (or some other suitable visa).

One step at a time.


----------



## Mrtcpip

BBCWatcher said:


> You'll need the lease to apply for an ER visa, so well before leaving for Italy. And, assuming you do not have and cannot obtain EU/EEA status of some kind, you cannot stay in Italy all that long unless you first obtain an ER visa (or some other suitable visa).
> 
> One step at a time.


Hi there,

My wife and I went through some of this in our journey to obtain an ER visa, it may seem difficult but it's doable. We first went to the Italian consulate with our visa application and when it came to the lease we just had a signed letter of intent from a landlord. Needless to say this didn't meet their qualifications which required a second trip to Italy to secure a place. That said, the consultate gave us some guidance that this was our only missing requirement, so we felt comfortable committing to a 12 month lease prior to actually having the permission granted to stay in Italy for those 12 months. We returned with lease in hand, rescheduled and had our ER visa within a few weeks. 

So my suggestion, is have a conversation with the consulate and try to determine that the lease requirement is the only thing that preventing them from approving your application for an ER visa. If there are other things, I would suggest correcting them before committing to a 12/13 month lease. 

My 2 cents..

Don't give up, you can do it!

Best!


----------



## BBCWatcher

For the record, the consulate has absolute discretion in whether to grant an ER visa or not. It's not a right, and there's no right to review. We're simply giving advice on what the requirements are, but even if you meet all the requirements you can still be rejected for whatever reason(s) or no reason at all.

I might feel a little differently than Mrtcpip. I think it's best to go in, from the beginning, with as strong an application as possible, including a proper lease as required. If that means you're going to lose your lease deposit if your ER visa isn't approved, so be it. Life has some risks, and there is some financial risk here that you must assume. That's rather the point. The consulate isn't likely to approve an ER visa if you can't handle some financial risk. This is a visa intended for those who are going to contribute economically (if nothing else) to Italy, to bring foreign wealth into the country and spend it, much more than a typical tourist would -- and not to become a burden on the state. That's the bottom line. So you must be serious about this move and demonstrate that seriousness. If you're simply looking for a way to spend more than 90 days in Italy as a "tourist plus," this isn't your visa.


----------



## sancerre

I am in the process of applying for an Elective Residence visa for an appointment at the Los Angeles Consulate on March 11. As the previous poster stated, you do need to have a rental contract as part of this process and in LA, it seems they do require a rental contract that is for the length of the visa (12 months). I just returned yesterday from a 10 day trip to Florence to look for a furnished apartment so that I can secure this contract for my consulate visit and meet this requirement. I had hoped to just get a 3 month rental and then explain "once I arrive in Italy I can then take time to secure something more permanent for the remainder of the visa.. " but a couple who just went through this process in LA a year ago told me you MUST have the one year rental contract, which is why I've just taken a trip to view apartments. I've heard it varies from consulate to consulate and maybe some would take the 3 month rental, but seems you might risk having your visa denied.


----------



## accbgb

sancerre said:


> I am in the process of applying for an Elective Residence visa for an appointment at the Los Angeles Consulate on March 11. As the previous poster stated, you do need to have a rental contract as part of this process and in LA, it seems they do require a rental contract that is for the length of the visa (12 months). I just returned yesterday from a 10 day trip to Florence to look for a furnished apartment so that I can secure this contract for my consulate visit and meet this requirement. I had hoped to just get a 3 month rental and then explain "once I arrive in Italy I can then take time to secure something more permanent for the remainder of the visa.. " but a couple who just went through this process in LA a year ago told me you MUST have the one year rental contract, which is why I've just taken a trip to view apartments. I've heard it varies from consulate to consulate and maybe some would take the 3 month rental, but seems you might risk having your visa denied.


I've been doing this a very long time and have never heard of anyone obtaining an ER visa from any consulate with less than a 12 month lease in hand.


----------



## Mrtcpip

My experience was it was a requirement for 12 months min. As an aside, We received a two year PdiS. We are renewing it now for another two, and they told me that with the ER visa you get a PdiS for two years. Also for what it's worth, When you buy your annual Italian health insurance, (assuming you will do so, we did and it has been very good for us) if your PdiS expires prior to the one year of health insurance, they make the sanitaria tessura valid to the end of the PdiS. And once your renew your PdiS, you have to go back to the sanitaria services and get a new card that is good for the entire year.


----------



## sancerre

Hello Mrtcpip,
Thanks for the information. I have a couple of questions based on your reply.
1. Once you receive elective residence visa for one year, you have to remain in Italy for one entire year without leaving the country (could not come back to the US for one week, for instance)
2. What is a PDiS?
3. Could you share the approximate cost of your Italian health insurance.

Many thanks


----------



## accbgb

sancerre said:


> Hello Mrtcpip,
> Thanks for the information. I have a couple of questions based on your reply.
> 1. Once you receive elective residence visa for one year, you have to remain in Italy for one entire year without leaving the country (could not come back to the US for one week, for instance)
> 2. What is a PDiS?
> 3. Could you share the approximate cost of your Italian health insurance.
> 
> Many thanks


Until he returns,


You can come and go as you wish (but see below). I believe there may be some limitations, but they are on the order of being out of the country for many months at a time. Perhaps BBCWATCHER has additional info.
PDiS = Permesso di Soggiorno or Permission to Stay. The ER Visa allows you to enter _Italy_, the PDiS allows you to _stay_ in Italy. You need to apply for your PDiS soon after settling in your comune and within 30 days (if I recall correctly) of entering Italy with your ER Visa. It is generally advised that you remain in Italy until you have your PDiS in hand. Google is your friend.
As dual (US/Italy) citizens, we do not have to pay to enter the healthcare system, so I am not certain of the amount. My recollection is that it varies based on your income and province (location), and at the very low end is about €350 per year per person.


----------



## accbgb

Correction: you should apply for your PDiS within 8 days of arrival in Italy.


----------



## Mrtcpip

accbgb said:


> Until he returns,
> 
> 
> You can come and go as you wish (but see below). I believe there may be some limitations, but they are on the order of being out of the country for many months at a time. Perhaps BBCWATCHER has additional info.
> PDiS = Permesso di Soggiorno or Permission to Stay. The ER Visa allows you to enter _Italy_, the PDiS allows you to _stay_ in Italy. You need to apply for your PDiS soon after settling in your comune and within 30 days (if I recall correctly) of entering Italy with your ER Visa. It is generally advised that you remain in Italy until you have your PDiS in hand. Google is your friend.
> As dual (US/Italy) citizens, we do not have to pay to enter the healthcare system, so I am not certain of the amount. My recollection is that it varies based on your income and province (location), and at the very low end is about €350 per year per person.


Greetings, accbgb's reply covers it well! Regarding the cost for two to buy into the Italian healthcare system, it is based on your income. I believe the low end is around what accbgb mentioned, and I am not sure of the high end, but would guess around €2,700 for two. Sorry to be so vague!


----------



## Mrtcpip

P.S. For what it's worth, I would recommend buying into the Italian healthcare system as soon as allowable. I believe it is after you receive your PdiS, correct me others if I am wrong.


----------



## accbgb

Mrtcpip said:


> P.S. For what it's worth, I would recommend buying into the Italian healthcare system as soon as allowable. I believe it is after you receive your PdiS, correct me others if I am wrong.


Yes, but just one thing:

You buy in on a calendar year basis. If you do so on January 2nd, you will pay €xxxx; if you do so on December 24th, you will still pay €xxxx - in other words, the exact same amount. So, it pays to buy in as early as possible and/or risk possible illness should you arrive close to the end of the year and not want to "throw money away".


----------



## BBCWatcher

accbgb said:


> So, it pays to buy in as early as possible and/or risk possible illness should you arrive close to the end of the year and not want to "throw money away".


No, don't do that. You should have insurance already of some kind because you needed that to get your ER visa. And/or, if you're coming from the U.S., you probably have health insurance that provides at least emergency/urgent medical coverage in Italy. Just keep that coverage through the end of the calendar year (2016 in this case), then decide whether you want to enroll in the public medical system in January, 2017, bearing in mind that the public medical system and your EHIC doesn't provide any coverage in the United States or much of anywhere else outside Europe.


----------



## Mrtcpip

accbgb said:


> Yes, but just one thing:
> 
> You buy in on a calendar year basis. If you do so on January 2nd, you will pay €xxxx; if you do so on December 24th, you will still pay €xxxx - in other words, the exact same amount. So, it pays to buy in as early as possible and/or risk possible illness should you arrive close to the end of the year and not want to "throw money away".


True, what happened to us is my wife broke her leg in the first September we were in Italy, and we had a high deductible personal international healthcare policy, so ended up paying the Italy healthcare system for a full year but only having coverage sept to December 31st. For the one day we did not have the Italian healthcare system coverage we had to pay €500 out of pocket. So now we renew every Jan. Right away.


----------

