# FREDDIE the FREELOADER



## mrbobo

*How to Handle a Freeloading Relative*

I married my Filipina wife 15 years ago (2000). I met her while working abroad. She had two sons at the time, one 13 and one 15, the youngest died in a tragic motorcycle accident a few years ago. I paid to put her oldest son though school and he is a college grad (IT). Here's my problem. He has never worked a day in his life as his mother has always taken care of him, with my money of course. I built a big home in one of the provinces in 2006 and he has been living in it since then. I was working abroad until 2012 when I retired. I only had to deal with him when I came home on vacation. I sent my wife a generous monthly allowance while abroad and she always provided for him. He is now married (I paid for the wedding) and has two children. They all live in my house. I am paying for his food, his cigarettes, his gasoline, his children's food, his wife's food, school for the kids etc. You get the picture. This is a 30 year old healthy guy, perfectly capable of working, but is a freeloader. I am really getting fed up. I spoke with my wife several times about it but nothing is happening. My wife sent him to the ATM last month (with my card) to withdraw 20000 pesos. I checked my balance and noticed that 21000 was withdrawn. He pocketed a 1000 for himself. I confronted my wife and she said "oh, he always does that". He always used my wife's ATM card so I was unaware that he was stealing from her. I did confront him about stealing my money and trust me he won't be doing that again. I am almost at the point where I am going to give my wife an ultimatum, "he goes or I go". I would have no problem taking care of his wife and kids if he goes. The tension is so thick when I see him that you can cut it with a knife. I realize that Filipinas have extended families but this ridiculous. There is no way in h*ll that I am going to let this go on any longer. I worked hard my entire life, I joined the army at 18, was out at 21, then worked my way through college by myself, and enjoyed a fairly successful career. I now have a good pension and SS and I don't plan on letting my son-in-law help me spend it? Any advice?


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## Asian Spirit

mrbobo said:


> I married my Filipina wife 15 years ago (2000). I met her while working abroad. She had two sons at the time, one 13 and one 15, the youngest died in a tragic motorcycle accident a few years ago. I paid to put her oldest son though school and he is a college grad (IT). Here's my problem. He has never worked a day in his life as his mother has always taken care of him, with my money of course. I built a big home in one of the provinces in 2006 and he has been living in it since then. I was working abroad until 2012 when I retired. I only had to deal with him when I came home on vacation. I sent my wife a generous monthly allowance while abroad and she always provided for him. He is now married (I paid for the wedding) and has two children. They all live in my house. I am paying for his food, his cigarettes, his gasoline, his children's food, his wife's food, school for the kids etc. You get the picture. This is a 30 year old healthy guy, perfectly capable of working, but is a freeloader. I am really getting fed up. I spoke with my wife several times about it but nothing is happening. My wife sent him to the ATM last month (with my card) to withdraw 20000 pesos. I checked my balance and noticed that 21000 was withdrawn. He pocketed a 1000 for himself. I confronted my wife and she said "oh, he always does that". He always used my wife's ATM card so I was unaware that he was stealing from her. I did confront him about stealing my money and trust me he won't be doing that again. I am almost at the point where I am going to give my wife an ultimatum, "he goes or I go". I would have no problem taking care of his wife and kids if he goes. The tension is so thick when I see him that you can cut it with a knife. I realize that Filipinas have extended families but this ridiculous. There is no way in h*ll that I am going to let this go on any longer. I worked hard my entire life, I joined the army at 18, was out at 21, then worked my way through college by myself, and enjoyed a fairly successful career. I now have a good pension and SS and I don't plan on letting my son-in-law help me spend it? Any advice?


Lousy situation for sure. Just a short reply as we are leaving for the evening.

Take absolute and sole control of all finances. Give her son a 90 day notice that he is employed and out of the house within that time and then ENFORCE IT-To the letter. That would include any and all other family. Hopefully the strain it puts on your marriage will be manageable.

Unfortunately that is the only sure way to handle it that I can see. You will likely have to use caution with her son as he may not be passive with his free living and $$$ being taken away.



Good Luck


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## jon1

Jet Lag said:


> Lousy situation for sure. Just a short reply as we are leaving for the evening.
> 
> Take absolute and sole control of all finances. Give her son a 90 day notice that he is employed and out of the house within that time and then ENFORCE IT-To the letter. That would include any and all other family. Hopefully the strain it puts on your marriage will be manageable.
> 
> Unfortunately that is the only sure way to handle it that I can see. You will likely have to use caution with her son as he may not be passive with his free living and $$$ being taken away.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck


I agree with Jet.

First take control of the Money. Have a good talk with her before you do this and get her to understand and agree that it best for you both. If she doesn't buy into this you will be fighting the whole family. Without her assistance you will lose or die trying (literally).

Your wife is your first line of defense no matter how correct you are.

Just remember it's harder to take away than to give (or in this case allowed by your wife).


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## Gary D

I would also suggest moving away as well, although this might not be practical. Your biggest problem is going to be overcomming the what's yours is mine attitude that prevails in the Philippines.


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## M.C.A.

Your in for one heck of a battle with your primary problem and that's the enabler in your home, most have these and it's the wife, she allows this to happen because she never runs out of money plus apparently she's close to her son and now grand kids, Oooh boy I can feel your pain.

Now that your retired, you need to relax and enjoy life, do everything you can to keep the stress down and think harder and longer on this subject, first of all he's not going anywhere that's reality, he has no job but decided to start a family with wife and kids. The only cure is a job, so someone needs to get him one, is there any other family members, contacts that can get him a job? 

My adopted daughter, I helped send her through college, I think a similar degree, maybe not she said she's a computer engineer but she started work in the Philippines working for a Super Ferry, shipping business and then after several years she got a job in Qutar, not sure what she's doing now we've become estranged.

Worst case scenario, try to change it to a better case scenario, I had similar issues and got in my car and went for long drives by myself from mall to mall, I was so angry I was shaking, hands were numb but I had to think out the whole picture. How important are the grand kids to you, they might be very important to your wife, does he help around the house at all or his wife, if they do the dishes, clean up the house and you can afford the loss of income it might be worth it, he seems expensive though, 21,000 Peso's and your feeding his family, gosh.... thats nutz. If your blessed with money, can you modify the home and give him his own area.

Why can't he get a job at a call center if all else fails they need IT guys, there's no shortage of call centers and business looking, many have sign on bonuses.

Here's a short cut to Job Street, jobs in the Philippines, all will probably be located in and around Manila.
TRAVEL Agent| Metro Manila | Earn up to 21k Salary! | Metacom Business Process Outsourcing

If this will make you feel any better my daughter, her live in husband and my grand child moved back in today, reason... the old man that they rented from groped my daughter, live in husband wants to hurt the elderly man so..... and there's no apartments or a place they can rent out of in our area.


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## Gary D

Why should he look for a job, he's got free money. Beats working for it. Your only defense is that you are now retired and your income has dropped so you will need him to help you with finances.


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## jon1

Gary D said:


> Why should he look for a job, he's got free money. Beats working for it. Your only defense is that you are now retired and your income has dropped so you will need him to help you with finances.


Or better yet, help his mother with HER finances (which are both of their's) and play the guilt trip on him.


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## esv1226

Does your wife really know how you feel? Does she know how her son feels about you? 

Let her know why you are taking control of the money. Don't ever lose sight of your finances otherwise, some will again find its way back to her son. 

I would let her drive away the son and his wife. They'll find a way to live. 

Offer to take care of the grand kids. They can take them back only when they can afford to.


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## Tukaram

After this many years - it is almost too late to try and change the situation. 

The only way you can gain control of the money is if you really have your wife's support too. Good luck.

I heard lots of these horror stories before I got here so I have saying "no" to the family since day one. They finally quit asking for money.


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## pakawala

mrbobo said:


> Any advice?


1. Thoroughly and carefully read The Family Code of The Philippines. 

THE FAMILY CODE OF THE PHILIPPINES : Executive Order No. 209 - FULL TEXT - CHAN ROBLES VIRTUAL LAW LIBRARY

2. Take time to realize the serious repercussions and various scenarios where you could be liable for his debts/actions/ etc. etc. etc. etc. as your step son, living with you who you are supporting, under THE FAMILY CODE OF THE PHILIPPINES

3. Seek the advice of an Attorney in your area.


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## colemanlee

I cant add to whats been said, what I can do is tell you if you read a lot of the post on this forum you are not the only one thats had this problem...most here have in one way or another.
Remember, your not the first, your not the last....but you can stop it in its tracks if you decide to be strict on the subject. 
Your wife can be your biggest asset in this...if you can get her on board. 
Either way, best of luck, keep us informed if for nothing else but support....


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## 197649

I can relate. This thread works hand in hand with the thread American Arrogance. I've been married for 13 years she has 2 kids one female is so lazy its unreal. Paid for her school then paid for her college which she quit after 2 months. So I made a pact I'll help when she helps herself. So far its cost me nothing. Her son is just as lazy he is going to school I am footing the bill. He too has failed to work. His wife on the other hand has her own business. She has asked to borrow money from me, I reluctantly loaned her the money. She did pay me back when she told me she would.
I have told him time and again to get a part time job as he has 0 work experience but it’s always an excuse. We own a home in Marikina and a lot. In the house her daughter lives and son w/ wife and child. They pay me no rent only the bills they make. I make them pay the taxes and repair items that are broken.
In the lot her sister lives with 6 kids and a non-working husband. I told them all they need to do was maintain the lot. HA HA the toilet is broken the place needs painting it’s almost disgusting. 
He even drives for us when we go into Manila. The a$$ thinks we should pay him, yet he can’t fix anything nor pay rent. 
I have come to the point of giving up. I know my wife gives them money. She has a couple condos we bought a long time ago she rents. I don’t care about the money.
She has to pay her taxes and maintenance on them. I know she is giving her kids money but oh well.
The saving grace for me is the $ account she cannot touch, the peso account is hers and mine. When I get the bills PLDT WATER ETC. I put enough money in the peso account and pay the bill electronically. But some like water and Cignal she has to pay direct. When she spends money she must give me the receipt, until she does no money gets transferred. 
This is where the independence and inter-dependence are a big difference in our cultures.


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## Asian Spirit

c_acton98 said:


> I can relate. This thread works hand in hand with the thread American Arrogance. I've been married for 13 years she has 2 kids one female is so lazy its unreal. Paid for her school then paid for her college which she quit after 2 months. So I made a pact I'll help when she helps herself. So far its cost me nothing. Her son is just as lazy he is going to school I am footing the bill. He too has failed to work. His wife on the other hand has her own business. She has asked to borrow money from me, I reluctantly loaned her the money. She did pay me back when she told me she would.
> I have told him time and again to get a part time job as he has 0 work experience but it’s always an excuse. We own a home in Marikina and a lot. In the house her daughter lives and son w/ wife and child. They pay me no rent only the bills they make. I make them pay the taxes and repair items that are broken.
> In the lot her sister lives with 6 kids and a non-working husband. I told them all they need to do was maintain the lot. HA HA the toilet is broken the place needs painting it’s almost disgusting.
> He even drives for us when we go into Manila. The a$$ thinks we should pay him, yet he can’t fix anything nor pay rent.
> I have come to the point of giving up. I know my wife gives them money. She has a couple condos we bought a long time ago she rents. I don’t care about the money.
> She has to pay her taxes and maintenance on them. I know she is giving her kids money but oh well.
> The saving grace for me is the $ account she cannot touch, the peso account is hers and mine. When I get the bills PLDT WATER ETC. I put enough money in the peso account and pay the bill electronically. But some like water and Cignal she has to pay direct. When she spends money she must give me the receipt, until she does no money gets transferred.
> This is where the independence and inter-dependence are a big difference in our cultures.


What's amazing to me is that for centuries the people of many of these islands were unable to have contact with each other due to distance etc. Yet, the same problems and attitudes are incredibly pervasive over the entire nation. 
Although I'm lucky enough to not have these issues, it does paint a hopeless picture of what appears to be a failed society that will likely never change.

Kind of reminds me of a (real life) version of an old TV show I use to watch as a kid; where Maynard G. Krebs always has a vocal, knee-jerk reaction to the word *work* as in the clip below:


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## 197649

Jet Lag said:


> What's amazing to me is that for centuries the people of many of these islands were unable to have contact with each other due to distance etc. Yet, the same problems and attitudes are incredibly pervasive over the entire nation.
> Although I'm lucky enough to not have these issues, it does paint a hopeless picture of what appears to be a failed society that will likely never change.
> 
> Kind of reminds me of a (real life) version of an old TV show I use to watch as a kid; where Maynard G. Krebs always has a vocal, knee-jerk reaction to the word *work* as in the clip below:
> 
> http://youtu.be/pqzpQPDSr2s


you are dating yourself long before Gilligan remember the terms Beatnik


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## Asian Spirit

c_acton98 said:


> you are dating yourself long before Gilligan remember the terms Beatnik


Hahaha--Yea, I thought of that AFTER I posted it; but what the heck.........

Use to love Gilligan's Island too. They filmed that in a wash area in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles where I grew up.


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## Manitoba

Jet Lag said:


> ..... it does paint a hopeless picture of what appears to be a failed society that will likely never change.
> 
> .....


Is it so much a failed society in absolute terms or one that has failed to adapt to modern world with communications, travel etc?

In North American Aboriginal culture, in common with most hunter gather societies, it was common for all to share if one had. This worked well in small groups where social pressures could force all to contribute according to their ability and allowed the group to survive.

Now with modern world a reality the groups are larger and people can get by freeloading on the group without making any contribution at all.

Could something similar be happening in the Philippines? What was a valid survival strategy before modern technology now be working against the people and holding them back?

The sharing culture could be so ingrained that it is impossible to change as fast as technology changes. The western world which developed the technology had time to adapt to the technological changes and now can culturally exploit the technology to its fullest. 

In every one of these threads on Philippine cultural issues I see a common theme. Philippine culture is bad absolutely and western culture is good absolutely. Could it be that Philippine culture has not adapted well to modern technology and that Western culture would not do well in a more technology undeveloped world?


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## M.C.A.

*Freeloaders who don't contriubute*



Manitoba said:


> Is it so much a failed society in absolute terms or one that has failed to adapt to modern world with communications, travel etc?
> 
> In North American Aboriginal culture, in common with most hunter gather societies, it was common for all to share if one had. This worked well in small groups where social pressures could force all to contribute according to their ability and allowed the group to survive.
> 
> Now with modern world a reality the groups are larger and people can get by freeloading on the group without making any contribution at all.
> 
> Could something similar be happening in the Philippines? What was a valid survival strategy before modern technology now be working against the people and holding them back?
> 
> The sharing culture could be so ingrained that it is impossible to change as fast as technology changes. The western world which developed the technology had time to adapt to the technological changes and now can culturally exploit the technology to its fullest.
> 
> In every one of these threads on Philippine cultural issues I see a common theme. Philippine culture is bad absolutely and western culture is good absolutely. Could it be that Philippine culture has not adapted well to modern technology and that Western culture would not do well in a more technology undeveloped world?


Great point "Freeloaders that don't contribute" or I like to call it a one-way relationship.

It's refreshing to hear that other expats have similar issue's and share them here on the forum. I had these same in-law conversations while I was in the Navy with US citizens some were green card holders actually but all were active duty military and of Philippine heritage and they didn't even bat an eye they knew exactly what I was talking about when it came to my many family issues here and they too... had the same problems so it's not just an expat issue but I'd say that they are better prepared for the in-laws, what I mean is they lock up goods, canned or packaged goods in a room some even have a lock on the refrigerator, I don't find this crazy, they also don't serve such terrific food, it's going to be bitter melon and dried fish, rice, so basically they don't make it so lucrative and money is not given out for doing household chores or maintenance on the house. 

When the in-laws were allowed in our house they got freezer burn from opening the fridge so much, when the meat dwindled down to almost nothing their numbers followed. Christmas was fast approaching 2009 and the brother in-law said he needed some meat, I told him I don't have much meat and that's when he went to my fridge, (Smaller fridge with upper freezer) and opened up the freezer and it was full but I just filled it for the month and he said the fridge is full of meat, I told him that was my budget for the month of December and some of that will be for the holidays, he didn't want to understand, this was after providing him and his family with meals and drinks.

My adopted kids don't want to work either, they both were kicked out years ago but my daughter is now living with us again and her family due to the dirty old man landlord and his grabby hands. My son and his family are in Manila he's working, I think he makes 100 peso's a day, he's been fired from several fast food mom and pop restaurants (stealing food) but now is selling lip stick, nail polish and other goods as a cashier, he just had a baby girl, I don't know how he makes it.


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## Asian Spirit

*Sink Or Swim*



mcalleyboy said:


> Great point "Freeloaders that don't contribute" or I like to call it a one-way relationship.
> 
> It's refreshing to hear that other expats have similar issue's and share them here on the forum. I had these same in-law conversations while I was in the Navy with US citizens some were green card holders actually but all were active duty military and of Philippine heritage and they didn't even bat an eye they knew exactly what I was talking about when it came to my many family issues here and they too... had the same problems so it's not just an expat issue but I'd say that they are better prepared for the in-laws, what I mean is they lock up goods, canned or packaged goods in a room some even have a lock on the refrigerator, I don't find this crazy, they also don't serve such terrific food, it's going to be bitter melon and dried fish, rice, so basically they don't make it so lucrative and money is not given out for doing household chores or maintenance on the house.
> 
> When the in-laws were allowed in our house they got freezer burn from opening the fridge so much, when the meat dwindled down to almost nothing their numbers followed. Christmas was fast approaching 2009 and the brother in-law said he needed some meat, I told him I don't have much meat and that's when he went to my fridge, (Smaller fridge with upper freezer) and opened up the freezer and it was full but I just filled it for the month and he said the fridge is full of meat, I told him that was my budget for the month of December and some of that will be for the holidays, he didn't want to understand, this was after providing him and his family with meals and drinks.
> 
> My adopted kids don't want to work either, they both were kicked out years ago but my daughter is now living with us again and her family due to the dirty old man landlord and his grabby hands. My son and his family are in Manila he's working, I think he makes 100 peso's a day, he's been fired from several fast food mom and pop restaurants (stealing food) but now is selling lip stick, nail polish and other goods as a cashier, he just had a baby girl, I don't know how he makes it.


I love the last part of your last sentence--> "I don't know how he makes it." That's the whole point here. They do make it one way or another; just as they did before us foreign ATM's married and or moved into their families. I feel very fortunate that I don't or no longer have to deal with this. We put a stop to it years ago and so far there has never been a problem again.
I'm no scrooge, but this behavior is something I would not tolerate back home and I certainty will not here. 
These are or are supposed to be "The Golden Years." Not the time to play the goose that laid the golden egg.


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## colemanlee

_ My son and his family are in Manila he's working, I think he makes 100 peso's a day, he's been fired from several fast food mom and pop restaurants (stealing food) but now is selling lip stick, nail polish and other goods as a cashier, he just had a baby girl, I don't know how he makes it._

Thats something else I do not understand about the Philippines, what makes people here think that stealing is ok? I have one sis in law that if I know she is coming over, I go through the house and lock up or put away any money or valuables....you cant leave anything around. 
One day I purposely took three 20p notes, wrote on the middle one "Why do you Steal" in large black magic marker...folded them together and put them on the table...sure enough in a hour or so they were gone....never heard anything about it, but she looked sheepish for a while...


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## M.C.A.

*No Proof*



colemanlee said:


> _ My son and his family are in Manila he's working, I think he makes 100 peso's a day, he's been fired from several fast food mom and pop restaurants (stealing food) but now is selling lip stick, nail polish and other goods as a cashier, he just had a baby girl, I don't know how he makes it._
> 
> Thats something else I do not understand about the Philippines, what makes people here think that stealing is ok? I have one sis in law that if I know she is coming over, I go through the house and lock up or put away any money or valuables....you cant leave anything around.
> One day I purposely took three 20p notes, wrote on the middle one "Why do you Steal" in large black magic marker...folded them together and put them on the table...sure enough in a hour or so they were gone....never heard anything about it, but she looked sheepish for a while...


They think they can steal because you need to show them overwhelming proof and I'v showed overwhelming proof and it turns into a he, he, ha ha joke and I mentioned to the other in-laws that I had caught the individual... their response, so it's not in your budget? hwell:


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## Asian Spirit

mcalleyboy said:


> They think they can steal because you need to show them overwhelming proof and I'v showed overwhelming proof and it turns into a he, he, ha ha joke and I mentioned to the other in-laws that I had caught the individual... their response, so it's not in your budget? hwell:


Yea well--If I ever caught anyone in a "joke" like that, the joke would be on them and that would be the very last time they would ever come anywhere on the property..


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## lefties43332

mrbobo said:


> I married my Filipina wife 15 years ago (2000). I met her while working abroad. She had two sons at the time, one 13 and one 15, the youngest died in a tragic motorcycle accident a few years ago. I paid to put her oldest son though school and he is a college grad (IT). Here's my problem. He has never worked a day in his life as his mother has always taken care of him, with my money of course. I built a big home in one of the provinces in 2006 and he has been living in it since then. I was working abroad until 2012 when I retired. I only had to deal with him when I came home on vacation. I sent my wife a generous monthly allowance while abroad and she always provided for him. He is now married (I paid for the wedding) and has two children. They all live in my house. I am paying for his food, his cigarettes, his gasoline, his children's food, his wife's food, school for the kids etc. You get the picture. This is a 30 year old healthy guy, perfectly capable of working, but is a freeloader. I am really getting fed up. I spoke with my wife several times about it but nothing is happening. My wife sent him to the ATM last month (with my card) to withdraw 20000 pesos. I checked my balance and noticed that 21000 was withdrawn. He pocketed a 1000 for himself. I confronted my wife and she said "oh, he always does that". He always used my wife's ATM card so I was unaware that he was stealing from her. I did confront him about stealing my money and trust me he won't be doing that again. I am almost at the point where I am going to give my wife an ultimatum, "he goes or I go". I would have no problem taking care of his wife and kids if he goes. The tension is so thick when I see him that you can cut it with a knife. I realize that Filipinas have extended families but this ridiculous. There is no way in h*ll that I am going to let this go on any longer. I worked hard my entire life, I joined the army at 18, was out at 21, then worked my way through college by myself, and enjoyed a fairly successful career. I now have a good pension and SS and I don't plan on letting my son-in-law help me spend it? Any advice?


I would put my foot down. They could all hit the road


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## cvgtpc1

Jet Lag said:


> Give her son a 90 day notice that he is employed and out of the house within that time and then ENFORCE IT-To the letter. That would include any and all other family. Hopefully the strain it puts on your marriage will be manageable
> Good Luck


I did something similar with some family members....and they surprised me by having jobs 2 days later and moving out 2 weeks later. I was lucky. And my wife was fine with it because she knew I was right.


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## lefties43332

cvgtpc1 said:


> I did something similar with some family members....and they surprised me by having jobs 2 days later and moving out 2 weeks later. I was lucky. And my wife was fine with it because she knew I was right.


Excellant...but thats the exception. Pitched first and second loves for that crap


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## cvgtpc1

lefties43332 said:


> Excellant...but thats the exception. Pitched first and second loves for that crap


Yeah, relatives aren't perfect but seem better than many. Helps that some have real jobs.


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## lefties43332

cvgtpc1 said:


> Yeah, relatives aren't perfect but seem better than many. Helps that some have real jobs.


Agreed
Don't enable them


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## M.C.A.

*There's jobs and work is available*



cvgtpc1 said:


> I did something similar with some family members....and they surprised me by having jobs 2 days later and moving out 2 weeks later. I was lucky. And my wife was fine with it because she knew I was right.


Amazing just how many jobs are available. After we kicked the in-laws out of the house and took them off of social welfare (mcalleyboy's money), well the smiles are still there but the behind the scenes bad mouthing and daggers in the back haven't stopped.

I was still visiting on my vacations and dealing with in-laws and then later my adopted kids (kids the wife wanted not me) anyway it got so bad that they were lounging around waiting for food to be cooked by my wife or me, distant in-laws were coming over during feeding times asking "What's on the menu". My adopted son was so lazy if I asked him to buy me something he'd still be laying down, turn to his original family member (a younger brother) and immediately tell him to go get it. 

That was the final straw those that were hanging around had houses of their own and adopted kids were booted as well, all were kicked out of the In-law parents home, they recently passed, we took it over.


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## Asian Spirit

mcalleyboy said:


> Amazing just how many jobs are available. After we kicked the in-laws out of the house and took them off of social welfare (mcalleyboy's money), well the smiles are still there but the behind the scenes bad mouthing and daggers in the back haven't stopped.
> 
> I was still visiting on my vacations and dealing with in-laws and then later my adopted kids (kids the wife wanted not me) anyway it got so bad that they were lounging around waiting for food to be cooked by my wife or me, distant in-laws were coming over during feeding times asking "What's on the menu". My adopted son was so lazy if I asked him to buy me something he'd still be laying down, turn to his original family member (a younger brother) and immediately tell him to go get it.
> 
> That was the final straw those that were hanging around had houses of their own and adopted kids were booted as well, all were kicked out of the In-law parents home, they recently passed, we took it over.


There are jobs here for those that are willing to get off their butts and do something. But that I think is the ONLY way to really handle the situation.--To forcibly boot them out the door and then stick to your guns and enforce it.

From what I have seen in many local and expat families is just what you describe; laziness beyond description and a determination to continue that lifestyle or come back to it if possible. Kinda like sweeping water out of a low spot. Soon as you stop sweeping, the water returns and settles back in the same spot.

This seems to be a common behavior everywhere here and the problems simply will not stop unless they are made to stop.

I have even heard of and read of other cases where when the foreign husband does make the forced change and evict the low-life, and his {local} wife will actually sneak money and food out the back door so-to-speak to keep supporting her useless tribe!

For me, that would be the absolute end of the line and it would either stop or I would be a bachelor again. The whole point of getting or being married is to enjoy life and not have to fight :fencing:with our wives or their family members. These retirement years are meant to be enjoyed and not endured..


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## fmartin_gila

Jet Lag said:


> There are jobs here for those that are willing to get off their butts and do something. But that I think is the ONLY way to really handle the situation.--To forcibly boot them out the door and then stick to your guns and enforce it.
> 
> From what I have seen in many local and expat families is just what you describe; laziness beyond description and a determination to continue that lifestyle or come back to it if possible. Kinda like sweeping water out of a low spot. Soon as you stop sweeping, the water returns and settles back in the same spot.
> 
> This seems to be a common behavior everywhere here and the problems simply will not stop unless they are made to stop.
> 
> I have even heard of and read of other cases where when the foreign husband does make the forced change and evict the low-life, and his {local} wife will actually sneak money and food out the back door so-to-speak to keep supporting her useless tribe!
> 
> For me, that would be the absolute end of the line and it would either stop or I would be a bachelor again. The whole point of getting or being married is to enjoy life and not have to fight :fencing:with our wives or their family members. These retirement years are meant to be enjoyed and not endured..


The last paragraph is what it is all about and why most of us are here. This seems to the most troubling thing of mixing our cultures. They don't see that we have put in many years(51 in my case) of paying into our system so we may enjoy in our later years what we have worked hard so many years for. They only see that we are enjoying it and it is available so we should share. As has been mentioned, they did manage to get along before we came into focus and they will somehow manage after we are gone/passed whichever way our support leaves.

Fred


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## jon1

This thread further reinforces what has previously been preached, *"do not reside near your Philippine family. One island away is good, two even better."*

I am so thankful that I heeded that advice and have not had to deal with this type of situation. My in-laws have a place to stay and the wife fends off any financial requests (she hasn't had any in quite a while).


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## Nickleback99

I would also be worried for your safety when push comes to shove, as in his lazy mind, You will be cause of His problems and You are taking away his "livelyhood"...which is being a mooch. Make sure, true or not, that they All believe you are worth Nothing if dead, that all income ceases including your asawa. She clearly is the enabler in this mess; so, does sound like you will have an uphill battle. If they have any hint that even Half the pension etc will continue, then you could easily be at risk. In the end force her to be the bad guy, and if we're me, I might even give them a " severance ", as hard as is to swallow, to go get set up in a 1 room Apt some where that actually maybe you and her have actually already paid the first month ( that being the severance ) Just watch your back! Yeah some of these threads make me worry about moving back in 2016, although my wife assures me only her parents will be living with us.


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## lefties43332

Nickleback99 said:


> I would also be worried for your safety when push comes to shove, as in his lazy mind, You will be cause of His problems and You are taking away his "livelyhood"...which is being a mooch. Make sure, true or not, that they All believe you are worth Nothing if dead, that all income ceases including your asawa. She clearly is the enabler in this mess; so, does sound like you will have an uphill battle. If they have any hint that even Half the pension etc will continue, then you could easily be at risk. In the end force her to be the bad guy, and if we're me, I might even give them a " severance ", as hard as is to swallow, to go get set up in a 1 room Apt some where that actually maybe you and her have actually already paid the first month ( that being the severance ) Just watch your back! Yeah some of these threads make me worry about moving back in 2016, although my wife assures me only her parents will be living with us.


Why will her parents be living with you? Ur likely heading the same direction. U can't be nice...it will bite u.
.its enabling in a likely to freeload culture
Just my experience


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## M.C.A.

*Mother in-law the problem*



lefties43332 said:


> Why will her parents be living with you? Ur likely heading the same direction. U can't be nice...it will bite u.
> .its enabling in a likely to freeload culture
> Just my experience


My mother in-law ended up being the gang leader of her kids, what an enabler of bad behavior she did nothing to stop it, she also made life hard on my wife. :drama:


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## Nickleback99

mcalleyboy said:


> My mother in-law ended up being the gang leader of her kids, what an enabler of bad behavior she did nothing to stop it, she also made life hard on my wife. :drama:


Good point/ question both lefties and mcalley...they will be well into their 60s by then and I've been around them enough to feel comfortable, and they've always worked hard themselves. We've been a "couple" 7 yrs and they ask for very little. Mom is strict and holds all the kids accountable, and pretty much kicked the freeloader "partners" of 2 of her daughters out of the house there when they were making babies and doing next to nothing to support. The one daughter semi moved away and the other does all the laundry and part cleaning for all in exchange for meals. The other two daughters work and one probably going OFW, plus son now in college...hopefully Not to be like first "boy" at start of this thread. I know it's a mixed bag, but I'm comfortable enough with the idea to give a try After we get ourselves settled. They've also already nixed the other extended relatives mooching at all to point of some of those relationships are now kaput, which great ahead of time. Mom can't sit still too long and will always be looking to help with cooking, cleaning whatever until old age some point catches up. She's worked hard since she was young to get out of poverty...took a long while, but she made it. My wife is kind of in line, I guess, to be the next matriarch as siblings all look up to her as one who took the risks, went overseas to work and help family before, and She rules the roost when there, other than mom, even though younger than 3 of em. She also then hooked up with me, then waited 5 yrs to finally get here to WA, waiting through my " fun" in Iraq and A'stan, not knowing what that outcome would be. I guess I'll post a question thread to see who else Has done same thing with parents Successfully? I know it's like Vegas and all could Look good until playing that final hand and losing all the "winnings".


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## lefties43332

Nickleback99 said:


> Good point/ question both lefties and mcalley...they will be well into their 60s by then and I've been around them enough to feel comfortable, and they've always worked hard themselves. We've been a "couple" 7 yrs and they ask for very little. Mom is strict and holds all the kids accountable, and pretty much kicked the freeloader "partners" of 2 of her daughters out of the house there when they were making babies and doing next to nothing to support. The one daughter semi moved away and the other does all the laundry and part cleaning for all in exchange for meals. The other two daughters work and one probably going OFW, plus son now in college...hopefully Not to be like first "boy" at start of this thread. I know it's a mixed bag, but I'm comfortable enough with the idea to give a try After we get ourselves settled. They've also already nixed the other extended relatives mooching at all to point of some of those relationships are now kaput, which great ahead of time. Mom can't sit still too long and will always be looking to help with cooking, cleaning whatever until old age some point catches up. She's worked hard since she was young to get out of poverty...took a long while, but she made it. My wife is kind of in line, I guess, to be the next matriarch as siblings all look up to her as one who took the risks, went overseas to work and help family before, and She rules the roost when there, other than mom, even though younger than 3 of em. She also then hooked up with me, then waited 5 yrs to finally get here to WA, waiting through my " fun" in Iraq and A'stan, not knowing what that outcome would be. I guess I'll post a question thread to see who else Has done same thing with parents Successfully? I know it's like Vegas and all could Look good until playing that final hand and losing all the "winnings".


Tama ka(ur right) crap shoot not in or favor but good luck


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## cvgtpc1

Nickleback99 said:


> Good point/ question both lefties and mcalley...they will be well into their 60s by then and I've been around them enough to feel comfortable, and they've always worked hard themselves. We've been a "couple" 7 yrs and they ask for very little. Mom is strict and holds all the kids accountable, and pretty much kicked the freeloader "partners" of 2 of her daughters out of the house there when they were making babies and doing next to nothing to support. The one daughter semi moved away and the other does all the laundry and part cleaning for all in exchange for meals. The other two daughters work and one probably going OFW, plus son now in college...hopefully Not to be like first "boy" at start of this thread. I know it's a mixed bag, but I'm comfortable enough with the idea to give a try After we get ourselves settled. They've also already nixed the other extended relatives mooching at all to point of some of those relationships are now kaput, which great ahead of time. Mom can't sit still too long and will always be looking to help with cooking, cleaning whatever until old age some point catches up. She's worked hard since she was young to get out of poverty...took a long while, but she made it. My wife is kind of in line, I guess, to be the next matriarch as siblings all look up to her as one who took the risks, went overseas to work and help family before, and She rules the roost when there, other than mom, even though younger than 3 of em. She also then hooked up with me, then waited 5 yrs to finally get here to WA, waiting through my " fun" in Iraq and A'stan, not knowing what that outcome would be. I guess I'll post a question thread to see who else Has done same thing with parents Successfully? I know it's like Vegas and all could Look good until playing that final hand and losing all the "winnings".


Her mom (father deceased) lived with us for 7 years, BUT not in the Philippines which really kept things in line. Made her a military dependent and she traveled the world with us. Was a great arrangement with having small kids.

My wife is in the same family position, oldest girl with 3 older brothers but she runs things. Another example against the men run the world myth, its nice being married to the queen haha


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## lefties43332

jon1 said:


> This thread further reinforces what has previously been preached, "do not reside near your Philippine family. One island away is good, two even better."
> 
> I am so thankful that I heeded that advice and have not had to deal with this type of situation. My in-laws have a place to stay and the wife fends off any financial requests (she hasn't had any in quite a while).


Same here jon


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## Nickleback99

Yeah, might end up at Subic, which certainly controls who can come onto the facility. We'll see. Lot to sort out between getting kid(s) in Good school and living arrangements. Fortunately my parent in laws and at least one sister and hubby are Proud and do not mooch as it is....Noting everything is subject to change. Don't mind taking care mom and dad in old age, but that's the limit. The other thing is that I now follow the mantra of Deniiro in "Heat"....Never get involved with anything or anyone that you can't walk away from in 10 seconds. Not that I can do the 10 secs, but I'm never afraid to "walk" to save my sanity.


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## M.C.A.

*Hard to keep family away from parents*



Nickleback99 said:


> Good point/ question both lefties and mcalley...they will be well into their 60s by then and I've been around them enough to feel comfortable, and they've always worked hard themselves. We've been a "couple" 7 yrs and they ask for very little. Mom is strict and holds all the kids accountable, and pretty much kicked the freeloader "partners" of 2 of her daughters out of the house there when they were making babies and doing next to nothing to support. The one daughter semi moved away and the other does all the laundry and part cleaning for all in exchange for meals. The other two daughters work and one probably going OFW, plus son now in college...hopefully Not to be like first "boy" at start of this thread. I know it's a mixed bag, but I'm comfortable enough with the idea to give a try After we get ourselves settled. They've also already nixed the other extended relatives mooching at all to point of some of those relationships are now kaput, which great ahead of time. Mom can't sit still too long and will always be looking to help with cooking, cleaning whatever until old age some point catches up. She's worked hard since she was young to get out of poverty...took a long while, but she made it. My wife is kind of in line, I guess, to be the next matriarch as siblings all look up to her as one who took the risks, went overseas to work and help family before, and She rules the roost when there, other than mom, even though younger than 3 of em. She also then hooked up with me, then waited 5 yrs to finally get here to WA, waiting through my " fun" in Iraq and A'stan, not knowing what that outcome would be. I guess I'll post a question thread to see who else Has done same thing with parents Successfully? I know it's like Vegas and all could Look good until playing that final hand and losing all the "winnings".


We sent money here for almost a decade and my adopted kids stayed with the mother in-law, one of my wifes sister or brother would stay in the house and the money was sent to my mother in-law so she could care for my kids but upon visits we noticed that our kids were under the table with mosquito bites and scared to touch the food had to switch from brother to sister to the other brother, so we went through all of her 8 sisters and brothers, on another visit my wife gave her sister money to buy the kids clothes and toys, they came back and our kids had junky toys and the cheapest clothes their kids had designer clothes and quality toys.....they're shameless.

Final straw my wife confronted the sister and she said it wasn't in the budget, my wife said what? Not in the budget, anyway my wife found a book and the entire family (Played like they're fighting each other) was alloted money, my kids were supposed to be getting milk, good foods ect.. Mother in-law wasn't happy my wife found out about this, she ended up getting the royal boot from her own home and lived with her children, actually she left.

Another sign the in-laws are using you, they wash your dish's take care of kids, household chores, these are just the many lessons I've learned over two decades, you also don't want Ya-ya's .....trouble is, if you don't get help in the home, you'll be the one doing the dish's taking care of the kids, nobody cares here, they leave it up to hired help and in-laws it's a real privileged society, similar to other 3rd worlds the person with cash does very little to lift a finger (wife) and has the hired help do all the chores for them but what needs to happen is a royal right kick to the behind of all non essential slugs and start doing it yourself just like in the states.

Bottom line is if the parents worked hard all their lives? Why do they need you, they should have been successful at something and should be able to make it on their own, if not all bets are off and don't forget when the parents start having health issues (what about our health issues) who's gonna take care of the parents? Their children's children will be doing that task within your house. Don't forget that the mother in-law will need to see her kids or they kids will need to visit you so they can be with their mother, will happen on every single holiday or event and they don't stay one day but weeks if not months.


----------



## lefties43332

mcalleyboy said:


> We sent money here for almost a decade and my adopted kids stayed with the mother in-law, one of my wifes sister or brother would stay in the house and the money was sent to my mother in-law so she could care for my kids but upon visits we noticed that our kids were under the table with mosquito bites and scared to touch the food had to switch from brother to sister to the other brother, so we went through all of her 8 sisters and brothers, on another visit my wife gave her sister money to buy the kids clothes and toys, they came back and our kids had junky toys and the cheapest clothes their kids had designer clothes and quality toys.....they're shameless.
> 
> Final straw my wife confronted the sister and she said it wasn't in the budget, my wife said what? Not in the budget, anyway my wife found a book and the entire family (Played like they're fighting each other) was alloted money, my kids were supposed to be getting milk, good foods ect.. Mother in-law wasn't happy my wife found out about this, she ended up getting the royal boot from her own home and lived with her children, actually she left.
> 
> Another sign the in-laws are using you, they wash your dish's take care of kids, household chores, these are just the many lessons I've learned over two decades, you also don't want Ya-ya's .....trouble is, if you don't get help in the home, you'll be the one doing the dish's taking care of the kids, nobody cares here, they leave it up to hired help and in-laws it's a real privileged society, similar to other 3rd worlds the person with cash does very little to lift a finger (wife) and has the hired help do all the chores for them but what needs to happen is a royal right kick to the behind of all non essential slugs and start doing it yourself just like in the states.
> 
> Bottom line is if the parents worked hard all their lives? Why do they need you, they should have been successful at something and should be able to make it on their own, if not all bets are off and don't forget when the parents start having health issues (what about our health issues) who's gonna take care of the parents? Their children's children will be doing that task within your house. Don't forget that the mother in-law will need to see her kids or they kids will need to visit you so they can be with their mother, will happen on every single holiday or event and they don't stay one day but weeks if not months.


I'm with you ....no ya yes for us. We dont need to prove social status. That's rediculous. Wouldn't trust that to few


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## Asian Spirit

mcalleyboy said:


> We sent money here for almost a decade and my adopted kids stayed with the mother in-law, one of my wifes sister or brother would stay in the house and the money was sent to my mother in-law so she could care for my kids but upon visits we noticed that our kids were under the table with mosquito bites and scared to touch the food had to switch from brother to sister to the other brother, so we went through all of her 8 sisters and brothers, on another visit my wife gave her sister money to buy the kids clothes and toys, they came back and our kids had junky toys and the cheapest clothes their kids had designer clothes and quality toys.....they're shameless.
> 
> Final straw my wife confronted the sister and she said it wasn't in the budget, my wife said what? Not in the budget, anyway my wife found a book and the entire family (Played like they're fighting each other) was alloted money, my kids were supposed to be getting milk, good foods ect.. Mother in-law wasn't happy my wife found out about this, she ended up getting the royal boot from her own home and lived with her children, actually she left.
> 
> Another sign the in-laws are using you, they wash your dish's take care of kids, household chores, these are just the many lessons I've learned over two decades, you also don't want Ya-ya's .....trouble is, if you don't get help in the home, you'll be the one doing the dish's taking care of the kids, nobody cares here, they leave it up to hired help and in-laws it's a real privileged society, similar to other 3rd worlds the person with cash does very little to lift a finger (wife) and has the hired help do all the chores for them but what needs to happen is a royal right kick to the behind of all non essential slugs and start doing it yourself just like in the states.
> 
> Bottom line is if the parents worked hard all their lives? Why do they need you, they should have been successful at something and should be able to make it on their own, if not all bets are off and don't forget when the parents start having health issues (what about our health issues) who's gonna take care of the parents? Their children's children will be doing that task within your house. Don't forget that the mother in-law will need to see her kids or they kids will need to visit you so they can be with their mother, will happen on every single holiday or event and they don't stay one day but weeks if not months.


A large percentage of Filipinos (mostly men) drink every chance they get and smoke wherever they are. Most Filipinos are like the American Indians and are unable to hold their liquor. A few drinks and they become complete mindless {and possibly dangerous} idiots. So a long time ago, we instituted a policy here for family or anyone else. The use of any alcohol or tobacco products is NOT allowed or permitted anywhere on our property. Also, if in the event someone shows up here drunk or goes somewhere else to get drunk while visiting us, they are instantly ejected and are gone. Naturally they don't understand or like this but, so far ray: it has worked without throwing anyone out in the gutter.
We are raising our (4) kids with the idea that these are things that should not be done. So for us to allow drunks and smoking on property would be sending them the wrong message
Fortunately for my blood pressure AND piece of mind, this policy reduces the family visits to about once or perhaps twice per year and only a few hours each time..


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## colemanlee

I gotta say, some of your stories make me feel blessed. There was a while when Maline and I got together that I had a lot of trouble with her family, the usual, stealing stuff, coming over eating all the food etc...Ive posted that before...but when I read what some of you guys have/are putting up with it makes me feel blessed....
If I had known what I know now, the minute I knew that Maline and I would be together, I would have moved us somewhere away from here. Probably somewhere around Cebu or up toward AC....I would not have invested in business here as now we cant leave. 
But hindsight is always 20/20 and in the end you have to be grateful for what you have..


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## lefties43332

Jet Lag said:


> A large percentage of Filipinos (mostly men) drink every chance they get and smoke wherever they are. Most Filipinos are like the American Indians and are unable to hold their liquor. A few drinks and they become complete mindless {and possibly dangerous} idiots. So a long time ago, we instituted a policy here for family or anyone else. The use of any alcohol or tobacco products is NOT allowed or permitted anywhere on our property. Also, if in the event someone shows up here drunk or goes somewhere else to get drunk while visiting us, they are instantly ejected and are gone. Naturally they don't understand or like this but, so far ray: it has worked without throwing anyone out in the gutter.
> We are raising our (4) kids with the idea that these are things that should not be done. So for us to allow drunks and smoking on property would be sending them the wrong message
> Fortunately for my blood pressure AND piece of mind, this policy reduces the family visits to about once or perhaps twice per year and only a few hours each time..


Good ideas jet


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## Nickleback99

mcalleyboy said:


> We sent money here for almost a decade and my adopted kids stayed with the mother in-law, one of my wifes sister or brother would stay in the house and the money was sent to my mother in-law so she could care for my kids but upon visits we noticed that our kids were under the table with mosquito bites and scared to touch the food had to switch from brother to sister to the other brother, so we went through all of her 8 sisters and brothers, on another visit my wife gave her sister money to buy the kids clothes and toys, they came back and our kids had junky toys and the cheapest clothes their kids had designer clothes and quality toys.....they're shameless.
> 
> Final straw my wife confronted the sister and she said it wasn't in the budget, my wife said what? Not in the budget, anyway my wife found a book and the entire family (Played like they're fighting each other) was alloted money, my kids were supposed to be getting milk, good foods ect.. Mother in-law wasn't happy my wife found out about this, she ended up getting the royal boot from her own home and lived with her children, actually she left.
> 
> Another sign the in-laws are using you, they wash your dish's take care of kids, household chores, these are just the many lessons I've learned over two decades, you also don't want Ya-ya's .....trouble is, if you don't get help in the home, you'll be the one doing the dish's taking care of the kids, nobody cares here, they leave it up to hired help and in-laws it's a real privileged society, similar to other 3rd worlds the person with cash does very little to lift a finger (wife) and has the hired help do all the chores for them but what needs to happen is a royal right kick to the behind of all non essential slugs and start doing it yourself just like in the states.
> 
> Bottom line is if the parents worked hard all their lives? Why do they need you, they should have been successful at something and should be able to make it on their own, if not all bets are off and don't forget when the parents start having health issues (what about our health issues) who's gonna take care of the parents? Their children's children will be doing that task within your house. Don't forget that the mother in-law will need to see her kids or they kids will need to visit you so they can be with their mother, will happen on every single holiday or event and they don't stay one day but weeks if not months.


Thank you for the insight. The parents aren't rolling in the dough...they simply lifted selves out of abject poverty by working, be it a maid at Subic in the day (her) and driving a truck (him), or later getting their own fish biz up and running, while raising 6 kids at some point about 2-3 yrs apart in age...enough to build own house up in Caloocan and expand it, and acquire some rentals too. Problem, like you all have noted, they cthen carried load for Some kids who had too many babies they could never afford. Mom made the one get tube tied if she wanted anymore help and food for kids. Sadly the other...The "Smart" college one...seems clueless and move a town away. 
Did Same mess and now does nothing with 4 kids and hubby works odd construction jobs. All the others are solid and working, or Jr. Going to college rt now. In reality, mom may want to just stay where they are, although neighbors jealous and gossip over anything we do for them. So, we'll see. ...nothing written in stone yet. I'll be D'---d though if anyone is coming over unannounced or to "stay" I've already made that firm and wife is on board. If someone just shows up, which can't at Subic, "we have plans, so sorry, call next time" and stick to it till they learn. Anyway, Once she got away from that drama of sorts and neighbors, she went back for a month after a year here, And was ready to come back home Here after just a week. Loves life here, the peace quiet and functionality, but of course missed PI and some family. So, we'll see. Yeah I've thought about the medical piece...That I Don't have a handle on.


----------



## Nickleback99

Jet Lag said:


> A large percentage of Filipinos (mostly men) drink every chance they get and smoke wherever they are. Most Filipinos are like the American Indians and are unable to hold their liquor. A few drinks and they become complete mindless {and possibly dangerous} idiots. So a long time ago, we instituted a policy here for family or anyone else. The use of any alcohol or tobacco products is NOT allowed or permitted anywhere on our property. Also, if in the event someone shows up here drunk or goes somewhere else to get drunk while visiting us, they are instantly ejected and are gone. Naturally they don't understand or like this but, so far ray: it has worked without throwing anyone out in the gutter.
> We are raising our (4) kids with the idea that these are things that should not be done. So for us to allow drunks and smoking on property would be sending them the wrong message
> Fortunately for my blood pressure AND piece of mind, this policy reduces the family visits to about once or perhaps twice per year and only a few hours each time..


Great advice Jet. Luckily none smoke!...and Dad drinks sparingly. The daughters rarely on special occasions. Of course if booze were c readily available, who knows. After reading these posts/replies, wife and I just de-discussed. ..she's on board and really doesn't want Or plan be involved in any sister drama...she's re-enforced that several times already to them and message slowly sunk in. We'll see how transpires once there!


----------



## Asian Spirit

Nickleback99 said:


> Great advice Jet. Luckily none smoke!...and Dad drinks sparingly. The daughters rarely on special occasions. Of course if booze were c readily available, who knows. After reading these posts/replies, wife and I just de-discussed. ..she's on board and really doesn't want Or plan be involved in any sister drama...she's re-enforced that several times already to them and message slowly sunk in. We'll see how transpires once there!


Hope it works well for you and your family. It was never a serious problem here but I just refused to have drunks hanging around on the patio. It looks bad and smells even worse-plus like I had said before; it sends a wrong message to our kids that are being raised to be alcohol and tobacco free.
I'm figuring our kids or most of them will live and work in the states and it will make life and keeping employment a lot easier as well as healthier for them and their own families some day..


----------



## M.C.A.

*Rules for in-laws*



Jet Lag said:


> A large percentage of Filipinos (mostly men) drink every chance they get and smoke wherever they are. Most Filipinos are like the American Indians and are unable to hold their liquor. A few drinks and they become complete mindless {and possibly dangerous} idiots. So a long time ago, we instituted a policy here for family or anyone else. The use of any alcohol or tobacco products is NOT allowed or permitted anywhere on our property. Also, if in the event someone shows up here drunk or goes somewhere else to get drunk while visiting us, they are instantly ejected and are gone. Naturally they don't understand or like this but, so far ray: it has worked without throwing anyone out in the gutter.
> We are raising our (4) kids with the idea that these are things that should not be done. So for us to allow drunks and smoking on property would be sending them the wrong message
> Fortunately for my blood pressure AND piece of mind, this policy reduces the family visits to about once or perhaps twice per year and only a few hours each time..


Jet I agree with you, when the in-laws were allowed to visit (all banned and couldn't have happened sooner) they don't understand locking the door and our house was just a stepping stone so they could run around to the various parties, run up my electrical bill with 24/7 TV and electric fans but I put an end to that by locking the door and taking the key... that didn't go over well because they are smokers, they love to smoke cigarettes, found out later that they kept bugging my wife for cigarette money.

Drinking earlier this year with neighbors and every single one of them was smoking they asked me if I smoke and I mentioned...well I like an occasional cigar but (Cigars not sold in our area) I don't smoke cigarettes they're full of chemicals, many are very proud of their Marlboro cigarettes and they won't smoke those cheaper ones, I chimed in there again and said that it really doesn't matter what you smoke, the cheaper cigarettes would be a better value because it's all chemicals...Lol, they barely get it, it's like talking to a brick wall from the 70's, I also mentioned Americans used to smoke like the Philippines but that was in the 1970's and even worse earlier than that.

I remember as a kid in the states 1974, standing in line behind an older couple and each person had a full grocery bag of cigarette cartons, I asked them is that for you guys and the guy said yea me and wife both smoke, he seemed very proud, many were unaware of the health risks.

Drinking.... I'm taking a large break from it and thankfully so has the wife but feel tempted during the holidays, I can hear the neighbors with their party and drinking, trouble is that if I was to go over there they'd be down to the last quarter of the bottle and very little food to eat, man it gets old breaking down every single time, so I'm concentrating on my family this Christmas season, made roast beef, with potato's in the crock pot, wife is making Pancit. 

Daughter and her family are now living with us, they're is not much in the form of apartment buildings in our Municipality and si they were renting from an elderly couple the old man comes into their apartment to read the electrical meter and then he started fondling my daughters breasts, so..... they're with us for now.


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## lefties43332

pakawala said:


> 1. Thoroughly and carefully read The Family Code of The Philippines.
> 
> THE FAMILY CODE OF THE PHILIPPINES : Executive Order No. 209 - FULL TEXT - CHAN ROBLES VIRTUAL LAW LIBRARY
> 
> 2. Take time to realize the serious repercussions and various scenarios where you could be liable for his debts/actions/ etc. etc. etc. etc. as your step son, living with you who you are supporting, under THE FAMILY CODE OF THE PHILIPPINES
> 
> 3. Seek the advice of an Attorney in your area.


I have had friends tell me that. I know filipinos who dont believe in it as i dont. Im not filipino. In my house its my rules....if u dnt like it hit the road.


----------



## Manitoba

One suggestion that I have heard about is to give the wife an allowance for all family obligations. This came from a different forum and related to Indonesian spouses but I believe the same general principles can apply.

Each month the money goes into a fund and loans are made and recorded. If a family member pays back the “loan” then the money returns to the fund. If not paid back then the fund is depleted.

In the case of an emergency i.e. a serious health issue, you may advance contributions but recover them in the future by not making the monthly contributions.

If you can stick to this then the family will see the fund as theirs and put some pressure on the deadbeat members to repay any “loans” If not repaid then it is the family that suffers.

It takes the pressure off of you to make ad hoc “loans” and makes the distribution of your support a family issue. It also means that you are seen as fulfilling your obligations as a member of the family by marriage to help support the extended family.

Anyone ever try something like that here? How did it work out?


----------



## Asian Spirit

Manitoba said:


> One suggestion that I have heard about is to give the wife an allowance for all family obligations. This came from a different forum and related to Indonesian spouses but I believe the same general principles can apply.
> 
> Each month the money goes into a fund and loans are made and recorded. If a family member pays back the “loan” then the money returns to the fund. If not paid back then the fund is depleted.
> 
> In the case of an emergency i.e. a serious health issue, you may advance contributions but recover them in the future by not making the monthly contributions.
> 
> If you can stick to this then the family will see the fund as theirs and put some pressure on the deadbeat members to repay any “loans” If not repaid then it is the family that suffers.
> 
> It takes the pressure off of you to make ad hoc “loans” and makes the distribution of your support a family issue. It also means that you are seen as fulfilling your obligations as a member of the family by marriage to help support the extended family.
> 
> Anyone ever try something like that here? How did it work out?


While it might be a workable plan for some, I think it would be better suited in a different, more advanced society. 

To put this in the kindest possible way for the benefit of local readers; what I have seen and experienced in places I've lived here over the years is that for these locals, long term planning is no more than about two (2) weeks down the road. On top of that, the level of responsibility is almost non-existent in many cases. One or two members of any given family may be somewhat responsible and the remainder unable or unwilling to be.

All of this as well as the idea you posted is dependant on the willingness of expats to subscribe to the idea. 

In our home for example, it would be a no-go. My wife read your post and even she said it would not work well with most people she knows and would be too much of a headache trying to manage and enforce.

We help in the event of a major medical emergency or if weather destroys a much needed crop by brother in law is counting on.
Other than those examples we simply do not get involved in the family financial or material needs. To do otherwise would (in their eyes) start something that would just never stop..


----------



## cvgtpc1

I've never heard the concept of money given being considered a loan to be paid back. 9.99 times out of 10 how would they unless it was only 500P maybe and then they'd probably make 20-50P payments lol. Can count on one hand how many in my family have a real 9-5 job with a paycheck.


----------



## Manitoba

cvgtpc1 said:


> I've never heard the concept of money given being considered a loan to be paid back. 9.99 times out of 10 how would they unless it was only 500P maybe and then they'd probably make 20-50P payments lol. Can count on one hand how many in my family have a real 9-5 job with a paycheck.


They repay the family fund then it is available for others. If not then not available.

Either way not yor problem because you have donated the agh
reed amount to support the family.


----------



## Nickleback99

Manitoba said:


> One suggestion that I have heard about is to give the wife an allowance for all family obligations. This came from a different forum and related to Indonesian spouses but I believe the same general principles can apply.
> 
> Each month the money goes into a fund and loans are made and recorded. If a family member pays back the &#147;loan&#148; then the money returns to the fund. If not paid back then the fund is depleted.
> 
> In the case of an emergency i.e. a serious health issue, you may advance contributions but recover them in the future by not making the monthly contributions.
> 
> If you can stick to this then the family will see the fund as theirs and put some pressure on the deadbeat members to repay any &#147;loans&#148; If not repaid then it is the family that suffers.
> 
> It takes the pressure off of you to make ad hoc &#147;loans&#148; and makes the distribution of your support a family issue. It also means that you are seen as fulfilling your obligations as a member of the family by marriage to help support the extended family.
> 
> Anyone ever try something like that here? How did it work out?


I've tried very hard to instill something like that...a Set amount every month to help out the few who made the bad choices early on, but at least have stopped...we send to the parents and one trusted sister to divy up as they see fit because we know we can trust them to ensure spent properly on food and school clothes for the kids, etc. God forbid someone gets truly sick. When I was in Iraq in 2009, a "friend" of ours tried the " my brother has malaria, in hospital and need $600" routine. I told my wife that while we were "dodging" those pesky rocket attacks, to go to the hospital and Confirm it, then we'd talk about a small amount. Of course that never happened because none of it was true, but Never tried that again. Fortunately the gal Did finish nursing school and now lives in France married to a "Frenchie", working and has a baby boy. I know the pressure was from her own family at time, but it Did change my relationship with her a bit. As has been stated many times here, we are seen as money trees, which for That purpose I Do have one of those copper wire Asian money trees on my desk, which I'll bring with me on move....Anyone Asks for money, I'll refer them to that tree and tell them to figure it out.


----------



## Manitoba

Nickleback99 said:


> ..... I Do have one of those copper wire Asian money trees on my desk, which I'll bring with me on move....Anyone Asks for money, I'll refer them to that tree and tell them to figure it out.


Not familiar with that. Can you post a picture?


----------



## fmartin_gila

colemanlee said:


> _
> 
> Thats something else I do not understand about the Philippines, what makes people here think that stealing is ok? I have one sis in law that if I know she is coming over, I go through the house and lock up or put away any money or valuables....you cant leave anything around. _


_

On this line of thinking, what I can't understand is how in this Country that seems to have such a high regard for Religion, they can go to Church and pray to be more like Jesus and turn right around and stab you in the back or rob or cheat you in some way and it's OK. 

To go with the quote, on the 24th we had some relatives here and she found she had forgot to get some fruit cocktail to mix in the salad. I asked her if I should drive her (she does not drive) quickly to the market to get some. She said "one of us has to stay here" and she gave her sister some money to go get some. Seems sad to me but just normal way of life here.

Fred_


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## 197649

Read most of the posts here. something I did not see mentioned is how the companies sc**w people. They pay poor wages none OF US WOULD EVEN CONSIDER WORKING FOR THAT AMOUNT!!!. Plus they hire people then make them do more than they should be doing in their 15 hour day. After a month or 2 the people are fed-up with being dumped on. If after a short period the employee continues to work, they get terminated so the company does not have to pay into SS or health care. That's why most every hospital in every country has a Filipino/a working there. Better wages and they don't get dumped on. Now that's not to say there aren't some lazy people here, I can provide a laundry list, but come to think of it I can think of some Americans who are just as bad. See welfare. Just want to put that out there since the threat seems to indicate ALL are freeloaders. I got a niece who has a kid through immaturity she lives with her parents who are freeloaders but she works. She has been hired and terminated more than I have in my 61 years. All because of the above problem. Her I help


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## M.C.A.

Nickleback99 said:


> Thank you for the insight. The parents aren't rolling in the dough...they simply lifted selves out of abject poverty by working, be it a maid at Subic in the day (her) and driving a truck (him), or later getting their own fish biz up and running, while raising 6 kids at some point about 2-3 yrs apart in age...enough to build own house up in Caloocan and expand it, and acquire some rentals too. Problem, like you all have noted, they cthen carried load for Some kids who had too many babies they could never afford. Mom made the one get tube tied if she wanted anymore help and food for kids. Sadly the other...The "Smart" college one...seems clueless and move a town away.
> Did Same mess and now does nothing with 4 kids and hubby works odd construction jobs. All the others are solid and working, or Jr. Going to college rt now. In reality, mom may want to just stay where they are, although neighbors jealous and gossip over anything we do for them. So, we'll see. ...nothing written in stone yet. I'll be D'---d though if anyone is coming over unannounced or to "stay" I've already made that firm and wife is on board. If someone just shows up, which can't at Subic, "we have plans, so sorry, call next time" and stick to it till they learn. Anyway, Once she got away from that drama of sorts and neighbors, she went back for a month after a year here, And was ready to come back home Here after just a week. Loves life here, the peace quiet and functionality, but of course missed PI and some family. So, we'll see. Yeah I've thought about the medical piece...That I Don't have a handle on.


Sounds like a typical Philippine family situation only the parents seem to be doing OK and they have rentals, if they move in with you and leave all they worked hard for to live with you, your stuck with them and they'll expect you to handle all spending costs, so real expensive relationship. The neighbor jealousy, that don't go away no matter where your at. Reason neighbors are jealous is that they're life long buddies with the in-laws and if they in-laws have been cut off so too have they, it's a no win situation, the neighbors and in-laws are as one and share items work jobs together (that's what I've experienced with mine).

Like you I don't have a handle on my health care and I'm a retired vet. Switching to the positive aspects of living here, when you cook for yourself, get away from all the restaurant sales and eat-all-you-can Chinese spot stateside you drop weight and feel better, I dropped 50 plus pounds, if you know what sort of medication you need, some things are over the counter such as antibiotics, Benedryl, I'm sure several others. so no need to see a doctor for prescription the cost of medications, if you do need to see a doctor its about 500 peso's, so doctors cost lower and medications, some seem much lower.

The whole family showing up un-announced they have so many ways around your rules get ready, basically they'll show up and stay with friends in the area, walk by the house and let it be known they're in town, send their mutual buddies over to talk with wife or they send the secret weapon.... kids first and once the kids have received hugs and kiss'es they'll show up for lunch, dinner and the following morning they're in your house and waking up to breakfast, man you just can't make this stuff up! You'll have to get stuck in the experience.

The college educated ones will still be getting along well with family members but the in-laws won't be eating the same food you serve...Lol and they'll have their stuff locked up in a room. They'll also sneak out to restaurant and won't have in-laws tagging along with them unlike us, when were here on visit's, that don't happen, so you could say the college educated kids have a handle on budget and spending, they also have the in-laws doing all the chores around the house.


----------



## lefties43332

mcalleyboy said:


> Sounds like a typical Philippine family situation only the parents seem to be doing OK and they have rentals, if they move in with you and leave all they worked hard for to live with you, your stuck with them and they'll expect you to handle all spending costs, so real expensive relationship. The neighbor jealousy, that don't go away no matter where your at. Reason neighbors are jealous is that they're life long buddies with the in-laws and if they in-laws have been cut off so too have they, it's a no win situation, the neighbors and in-laws are as one and share items work jobs together (that's what I've experienced with mine).
> 
> Like you I don't have a handle on my health care and I'm a retired vet. Switching to the positive aspects of living here, when you cook for yourself, get away from all the restaurant sales and eat-all-you-can Chinese spot stateside you drop weight and feel better, I dropped 50 plus pounds, if you know what sort of medication you need, some things are over the counter such as antibiotics, Benedryl, I'm sure several others. so no need to see a doctor for prescription the cost of medications, if you do need to see a doctor its about 500 peso's, so doctors cost lower and medications, some seem much lower.
> 
> The whole family showing up un-announced they have so many ways around your rules get ready, basically they'll show up and stay with friends in the area, walk by the house and let it be known they're in town, send their mutual buddies over to talk with wife or they send the secret weapon.... kids first and once the kids have received hugs and kiss'es they'll show up for lunch, dinner and the following morning they're in your house and waking up to breakfast, man you just can't make this stuff up! You'll have to get stuck in the experience.
> 
> The college educated ones will still be getting along well with family members but the in-laws won't be eating the same food you serve...Lol and they'll have their stuff locked up in a room. They'll also sneak out to restaurant and won't have in-laws tagging along with them unlike us, when were here on visit's, that don't happen, so you could say the college educated kids have a handle on budget and spending, they also have the in-laws doing all the chores around the house.


Lil mark


----------



## lefties43332

mcalleyboy said:


> Sounds like a typical Philippine family situation only the parents seem to be doing OK and they have rentals, if they move in with you and leave all they worked hard for to live with you, your stuck with them and they'll expect you to handle all spending costs, so real expensive relationship. The neighbor jealousy, that don't go away no matter where your at. Reason neighbors are jealous is that they're life long buddies with the in-laws and if they in-laws have been cut off so too have they, it's a no win situation, the neighbors and in-laws are as one and share items work jobs together (that's what I've experienced with mine).
> 
> Like you I don't have a handle on my health care and I'm a retired vet. Switching to the positive aspects of living here, when you cook for yourself, get away from all the restaurant sales and eat-all-you-can Chinese spot stateside you drop weight and feel better, I dropped 50 plus pounds, if you know what sort of medication you need, some things are over the counter such as antibiotics, Benedryl, I'm sure several others. so no need to see a doctor for prescription the cost of medications, if you do need to see a doctor its about 500 peso's, so doctors cost lower and medications, some seem much lower.
> 
> The whole family showing up un-announced they have so many ways around your rules get ready, basically they'll show up and stay with friends in the area, walk by the house and let it be known they're in town, send their mutual buddies over to talk with wife or they send the secret weapon.... kids first and once the kids have received hugs and kiss'es they'll show up for lunch, dinner and the following morning they're in your house and waking up to breakfast, man you just can't make this stuff up! You'll have to get stuck in the experience.
> 
> The college educated ones will still be getting along well with family members but the in-laws won't be eating the same food you serve...Lol and they'll have their stuff locked up in a room. They'll also sneak out to restaurant and won't have in-laws tagging along with them unlike us, when were here on visit's, that don't happen, so you could say the college educated kids have a handle on budget and spending, they also have the in-laws doing all the chores around the house.


Lil...experience


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## Woodyforest

mrbobo said:


> I married my Filipina wife 15 years ago (2000). I met her while working abroad. She had two sons at the time, one 13 and one 15, the youngest died in a tragic motorcycle accident a few years ago. I paid to put her oldest son though school and he is a college grad (IT). Here's my problem. He has never worked a day in his life as his mother has always taken care of him, with my money of course. I built a big home in one of the provinces in 2006 and he has been living in it since then. I was working abroad until 2012 when I retired. I only had to deal with him when I came home on vacation. I sent my wife a generous monthly allowance while abroad and she always provided for him. He is now married (I paid for the wedding) and has two children. They all live in my house. I am paying for his food, his cigarettes, his gasoline, his children's food, his wife's food, school for the kids etc. You get the picture. This is a 30 year old healthy guy, perfectly capable of working, but is a freeloader. I am really getting fed up. I spoke with my wife several times about it but nothing is happening. My wife sent him to the ATM last month (with my card) to withdraw 20000 pesos. I checked my balance and noticed that 21000 was withdrawn. He pocketed a 1000 for himself. I confronted my wife and she said "oh, he always does that". He always used my wife's ATM card so I was unaware that he was stealing from her. I did confront him about stealing my money and trust me he won't be doing that again. I am almost at the point where I am going to give my wife an ultimatum, "he goes or I go". I would have no problem taking care of his wife and kids if he goes. The tension is so thick when I see him that you can cut it with a knife. I realize that Filipinas have extended families but this ridiculous. There is no way in h*ll that I am going to let this go on any longer. I worked hard my entire life, I joined the army at 18, was out at 21, then worked my way through college by myself, and enjoyed a fairly successful career. I now have a good pension and SS and I don't plan on letting my son-in-law help me spend it? Any advice?


You are lucky that he is not your son. So it is time to change your "shirt" if you know what I mean. There are better looking and newer and possibly cleaner shirt around. Get yourself a lawyer that you can trust. <Snip> Life is great for me. I am 69 going 70 and got a young one who makes money for us. She just needs guidance and some initial funding. Woody


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## Nickleback99

Manitoba said:


> Not familiar with that. Can you post a picture?


Will do...on my desk at office. Will post that Monday. I either bought in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur back in 2011. Probably my favorite "cheap " souvenir.


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## Nickleback99

lefties43332 said:


> Lil mark


I probably am. I "can hardly wait!". Be still my fury heart. Well as all Y'all have said, Have an Exit plan. We'll see.


----------



## Cebu Citizen

WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE ?

I have read several posts in this Forum and I fully understood how a westerner would be viewed in terms of financial issues before I made the decision to move here...so I was prepared. No matter how much you make, the Filipino people think we are all rich with money falling out of our pockets. I know for me and I am sure for most of us...we all worked long and hard for many long years to accumulate our little nest eggs.

I have always been brought up to help those around us and I do not mind "helping" people or my new Filipino family from time to time. HOWEVER...the key word is "HELP" and not handout like an ATM Machine! I have also been taught to help those who help themselves...if an individual or family is really trying...then a little helping hand is OK.

But how do you handle the freeloaders just wanting handout after handout? Those with no intention of trying to help themselves out of a difficult situation! They don't even try...

Recently, my wife's family came into a few serious issues, one right after the other but the situations were all self inflicted. The climax to the entire situation a was a very lazy 22 year old brother-in-law who does not work, will not help around his parents house...all he ever does is play games on the computer. It always amazed me that no matter how much financial stress my wife's family is in, they always seem to have plenty of cell phone load and internet access for computer games and Facebook and their Karaoke Machine and they always have beer...even if they claim not to have any food to eat.

Anyway...back to the story, this lazy brother-in-law spent so much time playing on line over the past few days that he became seriously dehydrated and had to be hospitalized. He refused to eat or drink or even take a bath for several days while playing some game with a bunch of people online. Now my wonderful in-laws are expecting my wife and I to foot the hospital bills and "Help" the family out.

I know what I need to do and I know what should happen but I was curious if any of you have had similar situations arise in your extended families. I have my own set of expenses and my wife and I just bought a new place...papers signed and I cannot back out now without severe financial penalties. But it is so difficult to get these people to understand, just because I have "X" amount of money coming in every month, does not mean that it is open for mass spending and it is not designated for prior expenses.

It is also impossible to get them to understand, (or care), that "IF" I blow my entire nest egg helping them, (when they refuse to try to help themselves)...there is nothing left to fall back on in later years.

Any thoughts????? Or similar stories anyone might want to share?????


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## Nickleback99

Brother, feel your pain a bit...I would put that on your wife to convey whatever it is you Two are/are not going to do for them. Amazingly, my 26 y.o. or so bro-in-law, I guess I'd call him (he's my True sis in law's common law hubby) was just recently Kicked out by my Asawa's sister, but only after fathering 4 kids and Quitting jobs saying he's bored! My wife was like &$#@@ ! ...he has 4 kids, so boredom Should be irrelevant. Each situation/family is different, but other than individual Xmas money gifts to each sister (4 of 'em), we send a Set monthly amount to Mom, who manages it all, ensuring first the nieces/nephews eat, and they help them w/ a place to live since they own a block of one bedroom apartments they mostly rent out. Luckily, the family mbrs that do work (one bro in law, one sis and mom and dad) all pool resources and make it work out Caloocan City. Also, mom makes them all Work for the support, whether it be cleaning the house, doing all the laundry for Everyone in house by one sister, etc. The one son is now in "college" there and getting equivalent of a 4.0; so, he's going to be next up to help carry some load when finished. Bottom line though, I put it on my wife to be the enforcer on what we will/will not do for them, and although it took a couple yrs of her being Here and seeing how real world functions and money is mostly fixed amt, she's now 98% on board. I'm aiming for 100% ! As for the med issue now your end, you are going to be the "bad guy" regardless of who says no, if you do say no, but you need to keep pushing that to your wife. Wish you the best in this one, which is sort of a no win situation, but I'd make Any help be contingent on Removing All gaming capability from the home And that the loser is going to go get a job doing something.


----------



## galactic

Being dehydrated while playing an online game is just too much.
Throw in the fact that your sig line states that you are with Water for the World Initiative then the irony doubles 
But on a serious note, all you can do is have a heart to heart talk with your wife and the two of you decide on how to approach this seeming escalating problem you guys are in.
Draw a line and stick to it.


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## cvgtpc1

CC, I'll tell you this. If you weren't there they would manage it somehow. So I tell my wife they need to pretend I'm not available and do that and they do. Depending on the brgy they can get assistance, that's one avenue for them.

I've learned that what I can give can never be enough so why start.

Like Nickleback we give a monthly stipend to Nanay and she spends it how she needs to and knows that's it for the month.

You said they seem to have money for loads, beer, etc and I'll throw that back at them. Facebook isn't their friend, if they post something extravagant they really know they're cut off! LOL 

If I do give it's generally things to make their lives better in the long run. I put indoor plumbing in several homes. Giving a small banca boat motor to another this year. 

I also have the benefit of them having 30+ years experience with me so they know how I am. The new generation of nieces and nephews will try to get one over but we've nipped that pretty good.


----------



## jon1

Yes, you definitely have to get the wife on your side, get her to fend off the family or it will never work and you will be screwed. I would tell my wife that this is a game breaker if she doesn't nip it in the bud. My wife already knows this and has done an excellent job of this over the years.

Good luck!


----------



## jon1

Cebu Citizen said:


> I do have an advantage...my wife is already 100% onboard as far as what we should or should not do to help her family. I am typically the weak link and I have a soft heart and I am always wanting to help as much as possible BUT I hate to be lied to and I hate helping people who just sit around all day and sing Karaoke and don't even try to work and pay their own bills.


That is a huge advantage and you have been more than fair. They screwed up from A-Z and they broke all of the rules. Time to wipe your hands of the matter and do not entertain any communication with them. Let the wife handle it all..


----------



## Cebu Citizen

cvgtpc1 said:


> CC, I'll tell you this. If you weren't there they would manage it somehow. So I tell my wife they need to pretend I'm not available and do that and they do. Depending on the brgy they can get assistance, that's one avenue for them.
> 
> I've learned that what I can give can never be enough so why start.
> 
> Like Nickleback we give a monthly stipend to Nanay and she spends it how she needs to and knows that's it for the month.
> 
> You said they seem to have money for loads, beer, etc and I'll throw that back at them. Facebook isn't their friend, if they post something extravagant they really know they're cut off! LOL
> 
> If I do give it's generally things to make their lives better in the long run. I put indoor plumbing in several homes. Giving a small banca boat motor to another this year.
> 
> I also have the benefit of them having 30+ years experience with me so they know how I am. The new generation of nieces and nephews will try to get one over but we've nipped that pretty good.



This is exactly what my wife and I have agreed to do. We never give them any money ever because they simply waste it on unnecessary garbage expenses. We provide them with a flat, set amount for food or rent and my wife pays that amount directly to the landlady or buys the food herself at the store and brings it to her parents. We have told them that this is it...there is no more because my wife and I have expenses of our own.

This is my retirement life and I have plans to have a nice home and a vehicle and a few other comforts. I do not need to live like a king and I do not believe in flaunting my finances in front of the families face...but I did work very hard all me life and I do deserve to have a few nice things in my later years.

Up until now this has been OK until the mother got into further debt and the older brother became hospitalized for his dehydration. There always seems to be something new coming up.


----------



## Cebu Citizen

jon1 said:


> Yes, you definitely have to get the wife on your side, get her to fend off the family or it will never work and you will be screwed. I would tell my wife that this is a game breaker if she doesn't nip it in the bud. My wife already knows this and has done an excellent job of this over the years.
> 
> Good luck!



Yes Jon1...I am very fortunate in this area. My wife is absolutely 100% on board and is actually stronger with our level of family support than I am but I am getting better at it. My wife has had many years to see and learn how her parents really are. I however have a little more to learn about them and their underhanded actions. My wife had to quit her college dreams to go and get a job to help pay the family expenses since her father will not work at all. When things get so bad, the father is always threatening to leave the family behind and go off by himself. Then usually another of my wife's siblings will quit school to go and get a job to help pay the family expenses.

Last month a 12 year old brother started gathering scrap for money and has evidently quit going to school now! Twelve years old and no future...it makes me so sad.

My wife actually wants to buy some land and build a home so far away from her parents that she will not have to face these issues every day...that's why we have been searching for some beachfront property in Palawan of a neighboring island.

We will remain living here near Manila while we are searching for and actually buying our land and then later we will design and build our home over then next few years. After the home is livable, we will move into our new home and maybe see her parents every year for Christmas.

This does not sound like the best scenario but it may be the only way we can actually get on with our lives here. We will see how it unfolds.

Thanks for everyone's shared stories and suggestions...


----------



## Nickleback99

From descriptions parents, etc, then I'd just say they made their own bed and now have to lie in it or clean it up themselves. As noted by others, if you did not exist, they'd find a way to make it. If were me, with what you've described, I'd make them "make it" on their own for a year and tell them, "No work? No Money from me" Easier said than done I know, but as noted, it's only gonna get worse otherwise, And you just got there!. I'd put as much distance as possible between you and them for quite a while


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## Nickleback99

"BUT I hate to be lied to and I hate helping people who just sit around all day and sing Karaoke and don't even try to work and pay their own bills."

."..but this family, they don't seem to care and the parents are the worse ones for lying, stealing and cheating whenever they can. "

THESE TWO LINES Say ALL You Need to Know. I'd Cut the Chord for a While, possibly permanently is no change and just watch your back. Really stinks for you to start out this way.


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## jon1

Since you and the wife are not working, other than just setting up your place you really have no ties to having to stay in Manila. I would find another temporary place now, even if you have to break your lease. The longer that you stay there, the more it will cost you in the long run (as you now know they will steal from you aside from the lying and laziness). 

Maybe even look at Cebu just to get some good distance?


----------



## M.C.A.

*Been there done that*



Cebu Citizen said:


> WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE ?
> 
> I have read several posts in this Forum and I fully understood how a westerner would be viewed in terms of financial issues before I made the decision to move here...so I was prepared. No matter how much you make, the Filipino people think we are all rich with money falling out of our pockets. I know for me and I am sure for most of us...we all worked long and hard for many long years to accumulate our little nest eggs.
> 
> I have always been brought up to help those around us and I do not mind "helping" people or my new Filipino family from time to time. HOWEVER...the key word is "HELP" and not handout like an ATM Machine! I have also been taught to help those who help themselves...if an individual or family is really trying...then a little helping hand is OK.
> 
> But how do you handle the freeloaders just wanting handout after handout? Those with no intention of trying to help themselves out of a difficult situation! They don't even try...
> 
> Recently, my wife's family came into a few serious issues, one right after the other but the situations were all self inflicted. The climax to the entire situation a was a very lazy 22 year old brother-in-law who does not work, will not help around his parents house...all he ever does is play games on the computer. It always amazed me that no matter how much financial stress my wife's family is in, they always seem to have plenty of cell phone load and internet access for computer games and Facebook and their Karaoke Machine and they always have beer...even if they claim not to have any food to eat.
> 
> Anyway...back to the story, this lazy brother-in-law spent so much time playing on line over the past few days that he became seriously dehydrated and had to be hospitalized. He refused to eat or drink or even take a bath for several days while playing some game with a bunch of people online. Now my wonderful in-laws are expecting my wife and I to foot the hospital bills and "Help" the family out.
> 
> I know what I need to do and I know what should happen but I was curious if any of you have had similar situations arise in your extended families. I have my own set of expenses and my wife and I just bought a new place...papers signed and I cannot back out now without severe financial penalties. But it is so difficult to get these people to understand, just because I have "X" amount of money coming in every month, does not mean that it is open for mass spending and it is not designated for prior expenses.
> 
> It is also impossible to get them to understand, (or care), that "IF" I blow my entire nest egg helping them, (when they refuse to try to help themselves)...there is nothing left to fall back on in later years.
> 
> Any thoughts????? Or similar stories anyone might want to share?????


With the help of your wife (key) give the heave-ho and royal back side kick to all those that aren't immediate family members. Things are not going to change and this is a similar situation that we've all been through, say your goodbye's because they'll never talk to you again and will probably think of many ways to make trouble for you.

If the wife is onboard and they still don't want to leave the house get the barangay involved and they'll get the heave ho and will be drinking beers with other family members and smoking cigarettes. If they don't leave they'll be eaten up all your peanut butter, beers, soda's and meat and then when your out of money they'll hook up with friends and other family members for good times when you check comes in they'll be back to do it all over again, the cycle will never stop until they're booted for good.


----------



## George6020

Hey CC............lots of stress on your mind, no doubt. Having a soft, kind heart is a great attitude to have, but I also HAD to learn how to say NO...........Wala... Typical reply here is, "No, Sorry, No budget."
Before coming to the Philippines and getting married, I read several forums about Filipina families, and what to expect if living here. All posts giving advice "INSISTED" that we never live near the family of the wife...........because of these same reasons.
Someone above said.........better to break lease and move NOW, because the situation will stay the same or even get worse. .........I agree. Start taking short trips to other islands, there is lots of great places, tons of rentals everywhere.

We help my wife's family monthly, plus we buy extra foods and things, and give to family. BUT, on 3 occasions, I said NO to money borrowing, even when stated as urgent. Well, amazing that soon afterward, they somehow got the money to pay what they needed........a miracle...hehehe.


----------



## lefties43332

Cebu Citizen said:


> WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE ?
> 
> I have read several posts in this Forum and I fully understood how a westerner would be viewed in terms of financial issues before I made the decision to move here...so I was prepared. No matter how much you make, the Filipino people think we are all rich with money falling out of our pockets. I know for me and I am sure for most of us...we all worked long and hard for many long years to accumulate our little nest eggs.
> 
> I have always been brought up to help those around us and I do not mind "helping" people or my new Filipino family from time to time. HOWEVER...the key word is "HELP" and not handout like an ATM Machine! I have also been taught to help those who help themselves...if an individual or family is really trying...then a little helping hand is OK.
> 
> But how do you handle the freeloaders just wanting handout after handout? Those with no intention of trying to help themselves out of a difficult situation! They don't even try...
> 
> Recently, my wife's family came into a few serious issues, one right after the other but the situations were all self inflicted. The climax to the entire situation a was a very lazy 22 year old brother-in-law who does not work, will not help around his parents house...all he ever does is play games on the computer. It always amazed me that no matter how much financial stress my wife's family is in, they always seem to have plenty of cell phone load and internet access for computer games and Facebook and their Karaoke Machine and they always have beer...even if they claim not to have any food to eat.
> 
> Anyway...back to the story, this lazy brother-in-law spent so much time playing on line over the past few days that he became seriously dehydrated and had to be hospitalized. He refused to eat or drink or even take a bath for several days while playing some game with a bunch of people online. Now my wonderful in-laws are expecting my wife and I to foot the hospital bills and "Help" the family out.
> 
> I know what I need to do and I know what should happen but I was curious if any of you have had similar situations arise in your extended families. I have my own set of expenses and my wife and I just bought a new place...papers signed and I cannot back out now without severe financial penalties. But it is so difficult to get these people to understand, just because I have "X" amount of money coming in every month, does not mean that it is open for mass spending and it is not designated for prior expenses.
> 
> It is also impossible to get them to understand, (or care), that "IF" I blow my entire nest egg helping them, (when they refuse to try to help themselves)...there is nothing left to fall back on in later years.
> 
> Any thoughts????? Or similar stories anyone might want to share?????


You're wife must deal with it. I wouldn't allow them 1 peso for such a redicioulous situation


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## mrbobo

Cebu Citizen,

You are not alone. Here is a thread that I opened up last month dealing with the issue of lazy, blood sucking, free loading in-laws:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/philippines-expat-forum/628465-how-handle-freeloading-relative.html


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## HondaGuy

Cebu,

It sounds like you've cleared the biggest hurdle by getting your wife on board. My wife was fairly strict with her family, but still came to me with a few "problems" that needed cash to fix. Since we have kids together, I explained to her that every peso that we gave to her family was one less peso for our kids for food, clothing, school and whatnot. That really made her reconsider her priorities and she has since become MUCH stricter with her family about money issues.

I think the idea of getting away from the family isnt bad. Get some distance and relax.

Good luck!


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## esv1226

Paying for rent, food, etc is not helping. It is creating dependency. What have they been doing before you came into their lives. There are always "valid" reasons to borrow, ask for help or to "ask for a job". It isn't easy to say no.


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## Tukaram

I figure they did ok before I came around... and my wife (and her family) did not win the lottery by finding me...

I started giving 1 loan at a time. Until it was paid back no more money. One cousin borrowed p1,000 a fairly regular basis (Uncle works for the school district and they pay late apparently). But they always paid it back. One time she asked for p5,000 to get a necklace out of the pawn shop. She paid back half and stopped. So... no more loans to any family members for over a year. Works good if your wife is on your side ha ha.


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## M.C.A.

Cebu Citizen the problems won't go away and only get worse and more tormenting, thinking up emergencies, figuring out ways to get money (its' called estafa here). I agree with Jon1, you've done enough to help them and get this.... when the Bank of American stops giving away his wealth the family members end up getting hungry and that's when they get up off their feet and work, there's jobs everywhere here, they don't pay well but hey... this is the Philippines. 

I helped send two family members (both girls) get through college and bought supplies for another family member that had excellent skills in tattoo but on all counts they've become selfish or won't work and because I don't give them any more money (I'm retired now) they don't know me, sure is a far cry from being called "Daddy" back in the early 90's.

Family members little kids and young ones.... I used to care but not any longer the kids grow up just like the parents and they listen to their parents no matter how you try to help them, no matter how close you are to them, their parents come first and this includes stealing. 

I was real close to sister in-laws daughter, treated her like my own and she treated me like her daddy, I helped to send her through school and she stole several items over and over again and gave them to her sister and mother, she's history, so the bottom line is I focus on my daughter, son and grandson and everyone else can go to heck, I don't smile anymore when we meet, I don't frown either.

Parents use the kids as pawns, they tell them what to say and it's a game here for money and your fancy food, you know you've been had when they call you "Daddy", you've paid for that title and man.... that's all.. it.. is.., a title.

This vicious cycle for me has lasted about two decades and my wife.... the slowest person on earth and the most forgiving person on earth (dangerous practice here) is finally on board, we lost our roof last year in Typhoon Glenda and sure enough not a single family member came over to help, they also kept our metal roofing, stacked it up....lol, family members were drinking next door and laughing, that finally did the wife in.

Ran into an elderly expat that does everything for his in-laws and wife, he pushes a wooden cart in Sta Rosa Laguna and is skinny as nail, his money gets used up as soon as it arrives, he hasn't the heart or any back bone left to stop it. I mentioned to my wife if we keep our money and don't share it we win and they lose.


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## Jim151

Gawd, after reading these horror stories, I think it will be best to look for an orphan to marry.


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## Cebu Citizen

mcalleyboy said:


> With the help of your wife (key) give the heave-ho and royal back side kick to all those that aren't immediate family members. Things are not going to change and this is a similar situation that we've all been through, say your goodbye's because they'll never talk to you again and will probably think of many ways to make trouble for you.
> 
> If the wife is onboard and they still don't want to leave the house get the barangay involved and they'll get the heave ho and will be drinking beers with other family members and smoking cigarettes. If they don't leave they'll be eaten up all your peanut butter, beers, soda's and meat and then when your out of money they'll hook up with friends and other family members for good times when you check comes in they'll be back to do it all over again, the cycle will never stop until they're booted for good.



NO PROBLEM here with this issue because they are NOT living with me and I do not have anyone to kick out of my house. They all live an hour away in Quezon City and my wife and I are currently in Pasay but getting ready to move to our new place in Paranaque...which will be even further away from her family by another twenty minutes.

My wife and I only see them if we go and visit them which has not been since Christmas now. Every now and then the mother will call and drop hints as to how difficult their lives are and how many bills they owe and no food in the house...you know, the same ol story, month after month.

I simply cannot support a family of fourteen...twelve in her family plus my wife and I!


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## lefties43332

esv1226 said:


> Paying for rent, food, etc is not helping. It is creating dependency. What have they been doing before you came into their lives. There are always "valid" reasons to borrow, ask for help or to "ask for a job". It isn't easy to say no.





Cebu Citizen said:


> I AGREE 100%...and as mentioned earlier, I am extremely fortunate that my wife is and has already been onboard about giving up on her family. I have tried to keep an open mind and be as helpful as possible but no matter what we do, they DO NOT APPRECIATE ANYTHING! She tells me all the horror stories of how lazy her family is and that is the only reason why her mother and father had so many children...so the parents can stop working and let all the kids support them and pay all the bills.
> 
> At one point, (before we were married, my wife told me of a time when she was sick and could not go to work for three days and her father beat her senseless for not bringing home a decent salary that week). This situation came up once when we were visiting her family and my wife and her father got into it and he got in her face and grabbed her and shoved her hard against the wall...I simply put him up against the wall and told him "Don't you ever touch my wife like that again" and I thought he was going to cry. It seems no one ever stood up to him before. I try to stay civil with them all and speak to them with respect but I am not sure they deserve it.
> 
> I get more respect from total strangers that we have helped through the WATER for the WORLD Organization. I have an entire community in Haiti that we helped after the big earthquake there and they still send me messages about how they are doing and last year the community came together and made a sizeable donation to our organization so we might be able to help others, (and I know they cannot afford it). And a family in Japan, following the devastating Tsunami there, still sends me Christmas Cards and emails with regular updates of their progress to rebuilding their lives. And my most precious friend was a little girl we helped in Guatemala who lost her entire family in a mud slide and we helped get her life back on track and now she has graduated from college and does social work in her community helping others and still writes to me to this day. This would NEVER happen from my wife's family! They never have nor will they ever say Thank You nor do they appreciate anything we do...


I went thru that crap for 2 yrs and that was too much .to the tune of 50 grand of my retirement. Stand up...get a backbone.. Why not take care of our own.? People in

View attachment 36937


USA losing homes everyday. USA just pledged another 40 million to Phil's military for 2015. Absolutely redicioulous


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## Cebu Citizen

lefties43332 said:


> I went thru that crap for 2 yrs and that was too much .to the tune of 50 grand of my retirement. Stand up...get a backbone.. Why not take care of our own.? People in
> 
> View attachment 36937
> 
> 
> USA losing homes everyday. USA just pledged another 40 million to Phil's military for 2015. Absolutely redicioulous



I do stand up for myself and for what is right and I do have a backbone...there is NO PROBLEM there. I live my life well and I can sleep at night because I know in all cases, I try very hard to always do the best thing possible in every case.

No one walks all over me but I do give everyone the benefit of the doubt and until they actually lie to me or stab me in the back, I had to just give them enough rope to hang themselves.

We lose nothing here...it is the Filipino families that have lost out by treating foreigners the way they do.


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## M.C.A.

*No decent paying jobs*



Jim151 said:


> Gawd, after reading these horror stories, I think it will be best to look for an orphan to marry.


LOL.... it all comes down to no jobs and low paying jobs there's no motivation to do anything and the person with money pays everything, this includes friends and acquaintances so marrying an orphan won't work either but marrying a level headed women that won't allow the abuse is a must. My wife has been a real challenge but she no longer forgives, she and me have been kicked so many times that it's not possible to kick us anymore, the sob stories no longer work the forgiveness is not there anymore and the in-laws have become estranged and they have no one to blame for their woe's but themselves.


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## lefties43332

mcalleyboy said:


> LOL.... it all comes down to no jobs and low paying jobs there's no motivation to do anything and the person with money pays everything, this includes friends and acquaintances so marrying an orphan won't work either but marrying a level headed women that won't allow the abuse is a must, my wife has been a real challenge but she no longer forgives, she and me have been kicked so many times that it's not possible to kick us anymore, the sob stories no longer work the forgiveness is not there anymore and the in-laws have become estranged and they have no one to blame for their woe's but themselves.


I'm so lucky 3rd time around. Wife's family last 3 generations hard workers. Grandfather's worked and worked. Bought land again and again. Japanese Filipino. Her moms dad was murdered over a land deal.


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## Asian Spirit

*Truth*



mcalleyboy said:


> LOL.... it all comes down to no jobs and low paying jobs there's no motivation to do anything and the person with money pays everything, this includes friends and acquaintances so marrying an orphan won't work either but marrying a level headed women that won't allow the abuse is a must, my wife has been a real challenge but she no longer forgives, she and me have been kicked so many times that it's not possible to kick us anymore, the sob stories no longer work the forgiveness is not there anymore and the in-laws have become estranged and they have no one to blame for their woe's but themselves.


Good reading the truth :nod:.. Your post and all of the others combined should be _*required reading*_ for ANYONE that is even remotely considering a move or long term stay here in the Philippines!


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## Jim151

Just an FYI and barely related, I have lived in Guatemala for over 10 years (maybe a year or so in the Bay Islands of Honduras as well). It is no different here. Marry the woman (dory needed of course to parents, and they will attempt to extort as much as possible) and then are expected to support the family for life that you bought into. I had naively thought it was only a 3rd world Caribbean thing.


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## lefties43332

Jim151 said:


> Just an FYI and barely related, I have lived in Guatemala for over 10 years (maybe a year or so in the Bay Islands of Honduras as well). It is no different here. Marry the woman (dory needed of course to parents, and they will attempt to extort as much as possible) and then are expected to support the family for life that you bought into. I had naively thought it was only a 3rd world Caribbean thing.


Not all Filipino families play this game
About 90% do


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## cvgtpc1

Not 99%? LOL


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## Gary D

Our immediate family are ok but the extended family you would check you are still wearing your wedding ring after shaking hands.


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## Cebu Citizen

The saddest part is that these Filipino families cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel! They are only concerned about the here and now...they are unable to look to the future! Or tomorrow for that matter.

After telling lies and stealing a significant amount from my wife and I...I am very reluctant to ever help them again...EVER! Had they treated us right and acted like fellow human beings, gave us some courtesy, dignity and respect, they would benefit so much over the years but now they have drawn the line in the sand and established themselves as unworthy of our help.

It all came to a head yesterday when the family has now started spreading vicious rumors to other family members about my wife and I not "HELPING" the family with their dependency issues. We have not provided any financial assistance since our Family Christmas when we bought everyone of my wife's family a very nice gift and paid for an extravagant Christmas dinner.

Now they have decided to inform all of the rest of the extended family of just how bad my wife and I are by not helping them with their needs. I can handle this just fine, (I lived without them in my life for 60 years, and I can continue to live the rest of my life without them), but my desire is that this will not take too much of a toll on my wife. She certainly does not agree with what her family is doing and she does not like it and at her own suggestion we should break ties and stop helping them in any way...but in the end, it is her family and I wonder how much she will begin to miss them. I think she will be OK...especially since we have some very supportive friends here in the Philippines.

I am buying a new home, I have just gotten my Philippine Driver's License and am buying a vehicle...I have "ALL" this money and I am not sharing my wealth with the family...BUT what they do not realize is that I am certainly NOT rich and this little nest egg I had tucked away is all I had and once it is gone, it is gone forever because I am retired and only have my pensions now.

I am trying to spend my money wisely by securing a nice home and vehicle so that my wife and I will have some sort of secure future. Blowing all our money is certainly not a wise thing to do. My personal goal coming here to the Philippines was to have a vehicle and home...complete with all the necessary furnishings and appliances...all paid for, so that we are completely set-up and ready to live our lives on just my monthly pension. I still think we will reach that goal but it is certainly harder now with the amount the family has already gotten from us. We will need to tighten our belts a little to make this goal happen but it is doable.

When people treat me fairly, I will do anything for them...but when they lie and cheat and steal from me...it takes no effort at all to turn my back and walk away.


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## jon1

CC,

I am not surprised by the turn of events. It's always "everybody else's fault" but never their own. Short sightedness is more common than not here. Sorry to hear that it all had to come to a head like that but once you have some distance from them (communications wise) things will get better. 

You have justifiable concern about your wife. Despite the stance that she stood with you, I would be willing to bet that she will be missing some of her family members in the future. It is good that she has some supportive friends here and that will go a long way. It is key that you support her and get your relationship rock solid on every aspect so that if this should rear it's ugly head again in some way, she will side with you.

They will never "get it" so feel lucky that you are being able to break away. The rest of the family will figure it out eventually (getting freeloaded off of by these apples) and deal with it in their fashion.

my $.02


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## lefties43332

Cebu Citizen said:


> The saddest part is that these Filipino families cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel! They are only concerned about the here and now...they are unable to look to the future! Or tomorrow for that matter.
> 
> After telling lies and stealing a significant amount from my wife and I...I am very reluctant to ever help them again...EVER! Had they treated us right and acted like fellow human beings, gave us some courtesy, dignity and respect, they would benefit so much over the years but now they have drawn the line in the sand and established themselves as unworthy of our help.
> 
> It all came to a head yesterday when the family has now started spreading vicious rumors to other family members about my wife and I not "HELPING" the family with their dependency issues. We have not provided any financial assistance since our Family Christmas when we bought everyone of my wife's family a very nice gift and paid for an extravagant Christmas dinner.
> 
> Now they have decided to inform all of the rest of the extended family of just how bad my wife and I are by not helping them with their needs. I can handle this just fine, (I lived without them in my life for 60 years, and I can continue to live the rest of my life without them), but my desire is that this will not take too much of a toll on my wife. She certainly does not agree with what her family is doing and she does not like it and at her own suggestion we should break ties and stop helping them in any way...but in the end, it is her family and I wonder how much she will begin to miss them. I think she will be OK...especially since we have some very supportive friends here in the Philippines.
> 
> I am buying a new home, I have just gotten my Philippine Driver's License and am buying a vehicle...I have "ALL" this money and I am not sharing my wealth with the family...BUT what they do not realize is that I am certainly NOT rich and this little nest egg I had tucked away is all I had and once it is gone, it is gone forever because I am retired and only have my pensions now.
> 
> I am trying to spend my money wisely by securing a nice home and vehicle so that my wife and I will have some sort of secure future. Blowing all our money is certainly not a wise thing to do. My personal goal coming here to the Philippines was to have a vehicle and home...complete with all the necessary furnishings and appliances...all paid for, so that we are completely set-up and ready to live our lives on just my monthly pension. I still think we will reach that goal but it is certainly harder now with the amount the family has already gotten from us. We will need to tighten our belts a little to make this goal happen but it is doable.
> 
> When people treat me fairly, I will do anything for them...but when they lie and cheat and steal from me...it takes no effort at all to turn my back and walk away.


Walk away....far. You're lucky u know already. Hope your wife can hold up. Watch your back


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## lefties43332

lefties43332 said:


> Walk away....far. You're lucky u know already. Hope your wife can hold up. Watch your back


part of life here unfortunately with many families.


----------



## M.C.A.

*Same thing has happened to us*



Cebu Citizen said:


> The saddest part is that these Filipino families cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel! They are only concerned about the here and now...they are unable to look to the future! Or tomorrow for that matter.
> 
> After telling lies and stealing a significant amount from my wife and I...I am very reluctant to ever help them again...EVER! Had they treated us right and acted like fellow human beings, gave us some courtesy, dignity and respect, they would benefit so much over the years but now they have drawn the line in the sand and established themselves as unworthy of our help.
> 
> It all came to a head yesterday when the family has now started spreading vicious rumors to other family members about my wife and I not "HELPING" the family with their dependency issues. We have not provided any financial assistance since our Family Christmas when we bought everyone of my wife's family a very nice gift and paid for an extravagant Christmas dinner.
> 
> Now they have decided to inform all of the rest of the extended family of just how bad my wife and I are by not helping them with their needs. I can handle this just fine, (I lived without them in my life for 60 years, and I can continue to live the rest of my life without them), but my desire is that this will not take too much of a toll on my wife. She certainly does not agree with what her family is doing and she does not like it and at her own suggestion we should break ties and stop helping them in any way...but in the end, it is her family and I wonder how much she will begin to miss them. I think she will be OK...especially since we have some very supportive friends here in the Philippines.
> 
> I am buying a new home, I have just gotten my Philippine Driver's License and am buying a vehicle...I have "ALL" this money and I am not sharing my wealth with the family...BUT what they do not realize is that I am certainly NOT rich and this little nest egg I had tucked away is all I had and once it is gone, it is gone forever because I am retired and only have my pensions now.
> 
> I am trying to spend my money wisely by securing a nice home and vehicle so that my wife and I will have some sort of secure future. Blowing all our money is certainly not a wise thing to do. My personal goal coming here to the Philippines was to have a vehicle and home...complete with all the necessary furnishings and appliances...all paid for, so that we are completely set-up and ready to live our lives on just my monthly pension. I still think we will reach that goal but it is certainly harder now with the amount the family has already gotten from us. We will need to tighten our belts a little to make this goal happen but it is doable.
> 
> When people treat me fairly, I will do anything for them...but when they lie and cheat and steal from me...it takes no effort at all to turn my back and walk away.


Your right Cebu Citizen, enough with the presents and money you need to focus on your home and vehicle, these two items are very important and the money and excess food costs with the in-laws don't bring you closer, they'll never be satisfied. You're right the wife is going to miss talking with her sisters and brothers; here's how we do it, we only share what's left over from our dinner and rarely do we break out any extra food when the family comes over for visits.

Bad talk, been there done that and still going through this and the pressure will always be on your wife (they want money....Oh what a surprise). The family will also try to talk to you in private and created a wedge with bad talk and lies or half truths, don't believe it and don't talk with them in private, after all they're all guilty of lies they spin, wife's sister is a player her brother is a player with several wives, heavy drinkers and smokers, they steal they swindle, it's useless talking with this kind of person. 

I started deploying some tactics on the wife (main problem and enabler), all failed on me except the current tactic I now use and it seems to be very effective and that's just not getting the money or I'll delay getting money, I also won't dig into my nest egg, there's always an emergency, I no longer cater to emergencies, poor and bad planning on their account doesn't necessarily make it an emergency on my account. I won't buy more than a weeks worth of food also. When the in-laws show up, I don't buy groceries at all and we begin to eat fish, these foods scare them away like the plague or like I mentioned they only eat the left overs. No more fried chicken (thats what they want) Beef bone soup (Bulalao) another must have they don't get this either anymore.

The in-laws really don't need you, they don't need your money it's all about scamming you out of your hard earned dollars, they work you for every dime they can strangle out of your pockets. In-laws are self sufficient and they do work or can find work, they also have a huge network of other family members, life time friends and neighbors, I wouldn't lose another hour of sleep worrying about them, their bad talk only hurts them more, the only way you lose is when your money gets in their hands.

Many of us have been through this same issue, some have found ways around the in-laws and others have had to start their life over with someone else, there's no cutting away from the family but there's way's to regulate it, don't feel obligated in any way to give money to her parents or her brother and sisters, they'll alway's play the pity game with you, it's a no winner. :boxing:


----------



## Asian Spirit

Cebu, I agree with your post and ideas and do I also with all other posters up to this point.

I feel very lucky to not have to deal with these issues but you deffinetly have the right ideas. If it were me and in a home that "I" paid for, these people would NEVER come in the house or even on property again. I say that in support of Lefties suggestion to watch your back. These *people* have very little in the way of common sense and even less judgment and could be a serious potential danger. On top of that, if they can't get your money, they would not hesitate to "five finger" any items in your house that caught their eye.



Good Luck!

Jet Lag


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## cvgtpc1

CC, bright side and might be worth the money lost is your wife now sees how these people are. Expensive but very valuable lesson. Many don't learn that and have lost it all. 

Another bright side is hopefully the bad talk will prevent relatives she never knew she had from trying to scam you lol

I thank them because they turned my wife into a hard a** lol


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## lefties43332

Cebu Citizen said:


> The saddest part is that these Filipino families cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel! They are only concerned about the here and now...they are unable to look to the future! Or tomorrow for that matter.
> 
> After telling lies and stealing a significant amount from my wife and I...I am very reluctant to ever help them again...EVER! Had they treated us right and acted like fellow human beings, gave us some courtesy, dignity and respect, they would benefit so much over the years but now they have drawn the line in the sand and established themselves as unworthy of our help.
> 
> It all came to a head yesterday when the family has now started spreading vicious rumors to other family members about my wife and I not "HELPING" the family with their dependency issues. We have not provided any financial assistance since our Family Christmas when we bought everyone of my wife's family a very nice gift and paid for an extravagant Christmas dinner.
> 
> Now they have decided to inform all of the rest of the extended family of just how bad my wife and I are by not helping them with their needs. I can handle this just fine, (I lived without them in my life for 60 years, and I can continue to live the rest of my life without them), but my desire is that this will not take too much of a toll on my wife. She certainly does not agree with what her family is doing and she does not like it and at her own suggestion we should break ties and stop helping them in any way...but in the end, it is her family and I wonder how much she will begin to miss them. I think she will be OK...especially since we have some very supportive friends here in the Philippines.
> 
> I am buying a new home, I have just gotten my Philippine Driver's License and am buying a vehicle...I have "ALL" this money and I am not sharing my wealth with the family...BUT what they do not realize is that I am certainly NOT rich and this little nest egg I had tucked away is all I had and once it is gone, it is gone forever because I am retired and only have my pensions now.
> 
> I am trying to spend my money wisely by securing a nice home and vehicle so that my wife and I will have some sort of secure future. Blowing all our money is certainly not a wise thing to do. My personal goal coming here to the Philippines was to have a vehicle and home...complete with all the necessary furnishings and appliances...all paid for, so that we are completely set-up and ready to live our lives on just my monthly pension. I still think we will reach that goal but it is certainly harder now with the amount the family has already gotten from us. We will need to tighten our belts a little to make this goal happen but it is doable.
> 
> When people treat me fairly, I will do anything for them...but when they lie and cheat and steal from me...it takes no effort at all to turn my back and walk away.


I had a Filipino friend murdered in 2009 and I believe my ex wife's family had it done because he was telling me that the treatment(mistreatment) I was getting wasn't filipino culture. ..it was their culture. He left a young wife and 4 kids. Rip junior. These type of slugs will do anything


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## northwoods

my ex was from peru .
sounds,,,exactly point on - on all account's !
she had an ex ..... rip .


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## Cebu Citizen

Jet Lag said:


> Cebu, I agree with your post and ideas and do I also with all other posters up to this point.
> 
> I feel very lucky to not have to deal with these issues but you deffinetly have the right ideas. If it were me and in a home that "I" paid for, these people would NEVER come in the house or even on property again. I say that in support of Lefties suggestion to watch your back. These *people* have very little in the way of common sense and even less judgment and could be a serious potential danger. On top of that, if they can't get your money, they would not hesitate to "five finger" any items in your house that caught their eye.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> Jet Lag




I fully intend on addressing this issue with an intelligent mindset, rational thinking and a clear conscious when I fall asleep each night.

The old saying is absolutely true:

take advantage of me once...shame on you
take advantage of me twice...shame on me!

My wife's family will not have the opportunity to do it again. We just bought our new place and as far as I am concerned, after we move there over the next few weeks, we will not even tell them the address or location of our new home. Should my wife's family absolutely "need" to contact us for whatever reason, they can contact my wife through her Facebook account.

We have not even given them our new mobile phone numbers.


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## Cebu Citizen

jon1 said:


> CC,
> 
> I am not surprised by the turn of events. It's always "everybody else's fault" but never their own. Short sightedness is more common than not here. Sorry to hear that it all had to come to a head like that but once you have some distance from them (communications wise) things will get better.
> 
> You have justifiable concern about your wife. Despite the stance that she stood with you, I would be willing to bet that she will be missing some of her family members in the future. It is good that she has some supportive friends here and that will go a long way. It is key that you support her and get your relationship rock solid on every aspect so that if this should rear it's ugly head again in some way, she will side with you.
> 
> They will never "get it" so feel lucky that you are being able to break away. The rest of the family will figure it out eventually (getting freeloaded off of by these apples) and deal with it in their fashion.
> 
> my $.02




My wife has a huge family with siblings ranging from 5 to 34, still living at home. Her biggest concern are her two youngest brothers, (ages 5 and 7). She does not want the two boys to grow up in this negative environment but I told her that her parents are the legal guardians of their own children and there is not much she can do about how her parents choose to live.

Other than these two young boys, my wife has no compassion or sympathy for the rest of her family and she is the one that is really pushing me to separate ourselves from them with a significant distance.

I did not want to alienate myself from my wife, so I have allowed her to "see" how her family is treating us and for the most part let her make this relationship decision to separate from them and then I wholeheartedly supported her decision...because if I make that decision alone...she could later blame me for the loss of her family ties.

I am not trying to manipulate my wife's decision but by allowing her to make the initial decision, then during the supportive husband process, it allows me to voice my opinions but still make the original idea hers alone with me only playing the supportive husband role.

This allows us to keep our marriage strong yet still solve this issue in a satisfactory way.


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## Cebu Citizen

mcalleyboy said:


> Your right Cebu Citizen, enough with the presents and money you need to focus on your home and vehicle, these two items are very important and the money and excess food costs with the in-laws don't bring you closer, they'll never be satisfied. You're right the wife is going to miss talking with her sisters and brothers; here's how we do it, we only share what's left over from our dinner and rarely do we break out any extra food when the family comes over for visits.
> 
> Bad talk, been there done that and still going through this and the pressure will always be on your wife (they want money....Oh what a surprise). The family will also try to talk to you in private and created a wedge with bad talk and lies or half truths, don't believe it and don't talk with them in private, after all they're all guilty of lies they spin, wife's sister is a player her brother is a player with several wives, heavy drinkers and smokers, they steal they swindle, it's useless talking with this kind of person.
> 
> I started deploying some tactics on the wife (main problem and enabler), all failed on me except the current tactic I now use and it seems to be very effective and that's just not getting the money or I'll delay getting money, I also won't dig into my nest egg, there's always an emergency, I no longer cater to emergencies, poor and bad planning on their account doesn't necessarily make it an emergency on my account. I won't buy more than a weeks worth of food also. When the in-laws show up, I don't buy groceries at all and we begin to eat fish, these foods scare them away like the plague or like I mentioned they only eat the left overs. No more fried chicken (thats what they want) Beef bone soup (Bulalao) another must have they don't get this either anymore.
> 
> The in-laws really don't need you, they don't need your money it's all about scamming you out of your hard earned dollars, they work you for every dime they can strangle out of your pockets. In-laws are self sufficient and they do work or can find work, they also have a huge network of other family members, life time friends and neighbors, I wouldn't lose another hour of sleep worrying about them, their bad talk only hurts them more, the only way you lose is when your money gets in their hands.
> 
> Many of us have been through this same issue, some have found ways around the in-laws and others have had to start their life over with someone else, there's no cutting away from the family but there's way's to regulate it, don't feel obligated in any way to give money to her parents or her brother and sisters, they'll alway's play the pity game with you, it's a no winner. :boxing:




Yes! I agree about the nest egg. My wife does not even have access to it. I will not put myself in the position of being worth more dead than alive...so I keep the bulk of my assets and money tucked safely away in my US bank and I only transfer here exactly what I need. I am very fortunate after reading other posts in this Forum, how some Expats have found it difficult getting their US based funds but my US bank, (Wells Fargo), has a program, (Express Send), that allows me to electronically get my money directly into my hands usually in less than an hour!

I have even tested this program on weekends and holidays and it does not matter...my funds still arrive very quickly and are immediately available for use through my ATM Card. So, this keeps me in full control of the finances and my wife has never ever betrayed me with anything related to our finances. Even through the buying process of our recent home purchase she handles money very well and does not like to spend anything unnecessarily. I consider myself very fortunate to have her by my side...


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## Cebu Citizen

cvgtpc1 said:


> CC, bright side and might be worth the money lost is your wife now sees how these people are. Expensive but very valuable lesson. Many don't learn that and have lost it all.
> 
> Another bright side is hopefully the bad talk will prevent relatives she never knew she had from trying to scam you lol
> 
> I thank them because they turned my wife into a hard a** lol




You are absolutely right! If there is a bright side to this whole scenario, it is the fact that my wife and are standing firmly side by side with this issue and I consider it a very worthwhile investment in our mutually beneficial future!

United...we can withstand anything!
Divided...we will sustain nothing.


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## mrbobo

*How to handle a freeloading relatine (Update)*

A few weeks ago I posted this:

I married my Filipina wife 15 years ago (2000). I met her while working abroad. She had two sons at the time, one 13 and one 15, the youngest died in a tragic motorcycle accident a few years ago. I paid to put her oldest son though school and he is a college grad (IT). Here's my problem. He has never worked a day in his life as his mother has always taken care of him, with my money of course. I built a big home in one of the provinces in 2006 and he has been living in it since then. I was working abroad until 2012 when I retired. I only had to deal with him when I came home on vacation. I sent my wife a generous monthly allowance while abroad and she always provided for him. He is now married (I paid for the wedding) and has two children. They all live in my house. I am paying for his food, his cigarettes, his gasoline, his children's food, his wife's food, school for the kids etc. You get the picture. This is a 30 year old healthy guy, perfectly capable of working, but is a freeloader. I am really getting fed up. I spoke with my wife several times about it but nothing is happening. My wife sent him to the ATM last month (with my card) to withdraw 20000 pesos. I checked my balance and noticed that 21000 was withdrawn. He pocketed a 1000 for himself. I confronted my wife and she said "oh, he always does that". He always used my wife's ATM card so I was unaware that he was stealing from her. I did confront him about stealing my money and trust me he won't be doing that again. I am almost at the point where I am going to give my wife an ultimatum, "he goes or I go". I would have no problem taking care of his wife and kids if he goes. The tension is so thick when I see him that you can cut it with a knife. I realize that Filipinas have extended families but this ridiculous. There is no way in h*ll that I am going to let this go on any longer. I worked hard my entire life, I joined the army at 18, was out at 21, then worked my way through college by myself, and enjoyed a fairly successful career. I now have a good pension and SS and I don't plan on letting my son-in-law help me spend it? Any advice? 


Update!

There is a god after all. Last week my loser son-in-law's wife mouthed off to my wife.
She had the audacity to tell my wife that she was not doing enough for her grandchildren and she then told my 5 year old adopted daughter that she was adopted, which really ticked me off. I guess putting a roof over their heads, paying for their food, their schooling, their toys and their clothing wasn't enough. I may also add here that they were running the A/C in their large room 24/7 along with their own private flat screen TV with cable. My electric bill averages 9000 a month and was 12,000 pesos one month. She really disrespected my wife and to my amazement my wife threw out! The next day she left with her two kids, and the following day the loser son left. I was dumbfounded. I spoke with my wife and told her that they are not getting back in or I am leaving and she is on board. They four of them are now living with her mother in a shack so let's see how long they survive with no income. The loser son took off on his motorbike, yes, the one I paid for. My next step is to get the motorbike back so he has no transportation to go along with no cigarettes, no food, no beer, and no job. I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted off my shoulders. I hope that everybody out there that is being used as a private ATM machine for lazy, ungrateful relatives has a similar resolution.


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## jcbf

@mrbobo

I am truly amazed at the amount of generosity you have shown those ungrateful people. God has truly answered your prayers.

Change your locks and make sure they have no spare keys with them.


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## cvgtpc1

mrbobo
fortunately they crossed that line!


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## Asian Spirit

They will be getting hot and hungry very quickly. I'd be seriously considering the safety of your wife, yourself, and your kids.

You all made the right choice though for sure!!


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## M.C.A.

The blessing was the women fighting, once that happens all bets are off, one of the ladies has to exit. The son sure has some balls, running the electricity up like that and even bigger ******* driving off with the motorcycle as if it's his, hopefully the bike is in your name and you have a spare key, you might have to get that back secretly because if he finds out you want the bike back he'll sell it or hide it.

Well they both belong in a shack, it's not right taking advantage of someone like that, especially someone who's on a pension, dang what's he doing running the Air Conditioner, I haven't ran my AC unit for 3 months it's cool enough (I run fans) you don't need it. Cigarette smoker ta boot, oh heck no and drinking my beers oh hell nooooo!!!! Change your locks.


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## cvgtpc1

Get new big dog that doesn't know them lol


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## Nickleback99

Cebu Citizen said:


> I fully intend on addressing this issue with an intelligent mindset, rational thinking and a clear conscious when I fall asleep each night.
> 
> 
> My wife's family will not have the opportunity to do it again. We just bought our new place and as far as I am concerned, after we move there over the next few weeks, we will not even tell them the address or location of our new home. Should my wife's family absolutely "need" to contact us for whatever reason, they can contact my wife through her Facebook account.
> 
> We have not even given them our new mobile phone numbers.


Sounds like you have a great plan. Best of luck. I know we all often apply Our experience, or family's actions (good and bad) to yours and maybe not always fairly, other than Your story seems to repeat itself across almost all of the situations we have at some level or another...some worse than others. Your story simply makes me appreciate even more My own less than perfect scenario of wife's sisters w/ baby's they Never had means to support but kept having 'em, while at Least I have a kick butt mom in law that lays down the law or wood and kicks people out when they go full stupid on her. My one sis in law just Finally kicked out her do nothing partner after 10 yrs and 4 kids ...he quit numerous driver jobs because he said he is BORED! What? Are ya kidding me? You have 4 kids fella...Boredom is Not an option. So, mom has told her daughter that if she allows the mooch to come back mom is kicking them Both out of the small 2 room cinderblock mom owns and allows them rent free. The money we sent over yrs ensured these cinderblocks built and the kids eat and go school, But required adults work...him doing something for actual $ and her for doing All family laundry in exchange for having meals for family. Anyway, it's a bad cycle as you know, and without your parent in laws being on board, it really is hopeless. Again, best of luck and keep us updated with changes and lessons learned. Thanks for all your input.


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## mrbobo

Jet Lag,

Thanks for the heads up on the potential threat. I am well aware of it and security is the HIGHEST priority for me and my family. My wife has been involved in local politics (ex city counsellor) and has been subject to many death threats over the years as politics in the Philippines is a dangerous game. In retrospect I was naïve and never should have let her get involved in politics in the first place. I myself have been threatened via text messages to my wife's phone. It took me a while to figure it out who was behind the threats. I believe it was my wife's loser son trying to scare me and drive me back to the US, although he denies it. We were victims of a home invasion a few years ago when my wife was running for office and I was overseas working in the Middle East. Five armed men came in, tied up the women and children, busted down my bedroom door and stole the 2000 dollars that my wife was going to use for a political event the next day. I believe that she was setup by her brother who knew the money was in the house. About two years later her brother was murdered right across the street. He was walking home at 2 am and was shot in the back. I trust NOBODY except my wife as at the end of the day my life is really in her hands. I live in a secure compound with cement walls topped with barbed wire and we have three dogs who go crazy if a stranger comes around. With that being said most westerners that fall victim to foul play are not victimized by strangers. It usually someone close that is behind it and its an inside job, wife's boyfriend, housemaid boyfriend, etc. With all the external security I do have I am aware that it would be easy for someone in the house to go out and open the gate and let the perps in while we are all sleeping. Everyone's security situation is different and everyone must take the requisite measures to ensure the safety of their family. In my family's case we will use lethal force should the bad guys enter the premises after hours.


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## Asian Spirit

mrbobo said:


> Jet Lag,
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the potential threat. I am well aware of it and security is the HIGHEST priority for me and my family. My wife has been involved in local politics (ex city counsellor) and has been subject to many death threats over the years as politics in the Philippines is a dangerous game. In retrospect I was naïve and never should have let her get involved in politics in the first place. I myself have been threatened via text messages to my wife's phone. It took me a while to figure it out who was behind the threats. I believe it was my wife's loser son trying to scare me and drive me back to the US, although he denies it. We were victims of a home invasion a few years ago when my wife was running for office and I was overseas working in the Middle East. Five armed men came in, tied up the women and children, busted down my bedroom door and stole the 2000 dollars that my wife was going to use for a political event the next day. I believe that she was setup by her brother who knew the money was in the house. About two years later her brother was murdered right across the street. He was walking home at 2 am and was shot in the back. I trust NOBODY except my wife as at the end of the day my life is really in her hands. I live in a secure compound with cement walls topped with barbed wire and we have three dogs who go crazy if a stranger comes around. With that being said most westerners that fall victim to foul play are not victimized by strangers. It usually someone close that is behind it and its an inside job, wife's boyfriend, housemaid boyfriend, etc. With all the external security I do have I am aware that it would be easy for someone in the house to go out and open the gate and let the perps in while we are all sleeping. Everyone's security situation is different and everyone must take the requisite measures to ensure the safety of their family. In my family's case we will use lethal force should the bad guys enter the premises after hours.


No problem,

There are many that have no clue of the endless potential safety issues here without a doubt.

Yea politics in this country is just about like posting a target on your back and sitting outside at 2am.
It does get "interesting" here and your post along with others will hopefully catch the attention of those thinking of moving here.



Regards

Jet Lag


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## Maxx62

mrbobo said:


> I married my Filipina wife 15 years ago (2000). I met her while working abroad. She had two sons at the time, one 13 and one 15, the youngest died in a tragic motorcycle accident a few years ago. I paid to put her oldest son though school and he is a college grad (IT). Here's my problem. He has never worked a day in his life as his mother has always taken care of him, with my money of course. I built a big home in one of the provinces in 2006 and he has been living in it since then. I was working abroad until 2012 when I retired. I only had to deal with him when I came home on vacation. I sent my wife a generous monthly allowance while abroad and she always provided for him. He is now married (I paid for the wedding) and has two children. They all live in my house. I am paying for his food, his cigarettes, his gasoline, his children's food, his wife's food, school for the kids etc. You get the picture. This is a 30 year old healthy guy, perfectly capable of working, but is a freeloader. I am really getting fed up. I spoke with my wife several times about it but nothing is happening. My wife sent him to the ATM last month (with my card) to withdraw 20000 pesos. I checked my balance and noticed that 21000 was withdrawn. He pocketed a 1000 for himself. I confronted my wife and she said "oh, he always does that". He always used my wife's ATM card so I was unaware that he was stealing from her. I did confront him about stealing my money and trust me he won't be doing that again. I am almost at the point where I am going to give my wife an ultimatum, "he goes or I go". I would have no problem taking care of his wife and kids if he goes. The tension is so thick when I see him that you can cut it with a knife. I realize that Filipinas have extended families but this ridiculous. There is no way in h*ll that I am going to let this go on any longer. I worked hard my entire life, I joined the army at 18, was out at 21, then worked my way through college by myself, and enjoyed a fairly successful career. I now have a good pension and SS and I don't plan on letting my son-in-law help me spend it? Any advice?



Any chance you can dupe this meathead into heading over to Saudi Arabia, or some place else , as an Overseas Filipino Worker? Maybe you can offer to pay the recruitment agency fees for him to get the ball rolling? Try telling him that their are a lot of loose women over there, that might get his attention.


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## lefties43332

Maxx62 said:


> Any chance you can dupe this meathead into heading over to Saudi Arabia, or some place else , as an Overseas Filipino Worker? Maybe you can offer to pay the recruitment agency fees for him to get the ball rolling? Try telling him that their are a lot of loose women over there, that might get his attention.


Lol max.....perfect!!


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## mrbobo

Been there done that. He went to an agency that supposedly had jobs in Korea. The caveat was you had to pass a Korean language test. I paid the 10,000 peso for the Korean language lessons even though I knew in my mind it was a waste of money. That was 5 months ago. His wife's father works in Saudi and that would he a great place for him. I worked in Saudi in the early 1990's for a year. If the planet earth was to receive an enema Saudi Arabia would surely be the insertion point.


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## Maxx62

mrbobo said:


> Been there done that. He went to an agency that supposedly had jobs in Korea. The caveat was you had to pass a Korean language test. I paid the 10,000 peso for the Korean language lessons even though I knew in my mind it was a waste of money. That was 5 months ago. His wife's father works in Saudi and that would he a great place for him. I worked in Saudi in the early 1990's for a year. If the planet earth was to receive an enema Saudi Arabia would surely be the insertion point.


If he's like a lot of these guys over here, then he's probably getting bored with having a wife and kids, and if he thinks that he go to Saudi Arabia, Singapore, or Dubai, and play hanky panky with some filipina working as a hotel maid over there, then he'll probably jump at the chance.


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## mrbobo

You may be right. His wife's father works in Saudi and hasn't been home in 6 years. I am sure that he has some "extracurricular" activity going on.


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