# Interesting conversation with Charles Schwab



## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

My wife has been told she has maybe four months.

We have always taken great care with the way we have set up our financial accounts. Accounts held in common have always been Joint Tenants w/ Rights of Survivorship. We have always had reciprocal powers of attorney. We have always been beneficiaries on each others retirement accounts.

I called Schwab today to make sure everything was still setup correctly. Well our savings account is an 'International' account. The way it works is on her passing I would need to provide a death certificate (and some other forms which they weren't clear on) AND the joint account would then be FROZEN. Perhaps at some point the IRS is brought into the picture for possible estate taxes (on our joint monies !!).

The alternative solution I came up with on the phone (with an extremely helpful rep) was to write a letter requesting that my wife's name be removed from the account. We have already written, signed, scanned and emailed that letter. 

In many ways I am grateful that we have been given advance notice to take care of these sorts of things.

Oh - and when my wife is removed from the savings account, the Schwab debit card is cancelled and I need to request a new one. (True I don't use the ATM all that often but I would hate to insert the card at some point down the road to find it is no longer valid).

I'm sharing this in case it helps someone else...


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your wife. Alan


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

AlanMexicali said:


> So sorry to hear about your wife. Alan


Thanks - and thanks to everyone else ahead of time...

Just went through the same process with Fidelity - but unlike Schwab, Fidelity had a much more electronic process. Lots and lots of questions but pretty easy.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Condolences, that's really tough. I hope her remaining time is not too difficult.

From what I remember when my Dad passed away leaving everything to my Mom (and this is 20 years ago), half the value of a joint account counts towards the estate, as did half the current value of the house owned jointly. Back then the estate tax threshold was much lower (but she still escaped it). 

From what I learned when I moved here, your 'domicile' is the last state you were a resident of before leaving the US, and that state's inheritance tax rules apply. Most states don't tax inheritance, and others have high thresholds, so you're probably ok, but you might want to do a quick check.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

But unless I am missing something - if your dad had a runway leading up to his passing - he could have transitioned the joint account to an individual account in your mother's name and it might have been easier (for everyone). I am not an accountant nor tax consultant but let's say for a moment your mother did not fall under the estate tax threshold. She would have paid AND assuming you get some stuff from her there is a chance that YOU would pay taxes on those same monies !! That just seems crazy to me.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Yep. Super-rich people set up trusts for their grandkids to avoid having the estate taxes applied multiple times.

The hazard with undoing joint ownership is what happens if, next week, you get run over by a bus. Your wife would maybe have problems accessing enough funds to get by until everything could be resolved.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

So sorry to hear about your wife. There is always a chance the doctors are wrong and that she will live way pass the date the doctors told her, it happened to several all of my relatives.
Also as easwing noted you do not know who will go first and should think about that too.
Who will advise Schwab? Since you are a Mexican citizen why would anyone tell the consulate?

In my case I am French and Mexican so the US consulate would not be notified at all and Schwab is where I have the money.
The custom in France where all ac****s are immediately frozen is to take all the money out the minute someone is in serious condition. Why couldn t you transfer the money in an account in your name ?
I am with Easwind on that one I would not take her name off of the account.

Your post started a conversation in our home , that we had a few years ago but that we should have again. In our case we would transfer money to personal accounts in Mexico. But I am making an appointment with a notay to get all the details we need to know when one of us go. Thank you for posting and sorry it is in those circumstances.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

MangoTango said:


> My wife has been told she has maybe four months.
> 
> We have always taken great care with the way we have set up our financial accounts. Accounts held in common have always been Joint Tenants w/ Rights of Survivorship. We have always had reciprocal powers of attorney. We have always been beneficiaries on each others retirement accounts.
> 
> ...


It is very thoughtful of you to share this information with us in the midst of your grief about your wife.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

citlali said:


> So sorry to hear about your wife. There is always a chance the doctors are wrong and that she will live way pass the date the doctors told her, it happened to several all of my relatives.
> Also as easwing noted you do not know who will go first and should think about that too.
> Who will advise Schwab? Since you are a Mexican citizen why would anyone tell the consulate?
> 
> ...


Yes - have you ever seen the 1980's film Cocoon ? That would be great. 

This is my wife's 3rd cancer experience and she has probably lasted this long because she has always received the best care she could get. We have done two PET-CT scans in the last 1-2 years. We even had 'experts' come out from Mexico City. That was interesting - two/three van loads of students/doctors loaded up with equipment. Unfortunately it is just time. 

Enough on the medical - as for the financial aspects...

I have sent off the request to remove my wife from our US joint accounts for the most part. I still have to wait a couple weeks to see if those requests are completed successfully. Then, for those accounts I will make her the beneficiary. (in the event of that bus). My wife has a friend in the States for much longer than the 40+ years I have known her and they talk EVERY Sunday. I am going to make her the sole beneficiary of our US funds. Currently those funds are targeted the Shriners (due to my father-in-laws association) and a cancer hospital at U of Miami. It would be like a lottery winning experience for the friend. We have US wills but as I understand it the specific beneficiary designations override anything in a will.

As for Mexico - we have a very varied collection of friends / relationships. My wife has one nice expat friend. Our truly best friend in Mexico is a quite remarkable Mexican woman. We have travelled together. She is very very wealthy. (But if you saw her on the street you would never know it). She is the executor of our Mexican wills. I am going to change all that up and after moving all the monies from my wife's Mexican accounts into our joint account I am going to make our executor the sole beneficiary of our Mexican accounts. I think in Mexico our wills currently give everything to a Shriner hospital in Polanco. Our Mexican friend will certainly be able to put our monies to better use/purpose than I can.

Our imported car is in my wife's name. we met with another friend today who is our 'mechanic' (but he also is a very unique person). He is going to handle all the transactions needed to put the car in my name. Because of the pedimenieto (?) that process can take a couple months (and a few pesos). Even though the car has had Mexican plates for over a decade.

This friend said - oh changing the ownership of the car will be trivial. Changing the ownership of the house is going to be much more difficult. We will need to meet with our notary and get a better sense of that - but I've got to think that our situation is rather common. We will see.

Finally - I would trade places with my wife in a heartbeat.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well a bunch of faceless posters isn't much, but for whatever good we are, we'll be here for you. I don't want to be the only grumpy old man on the forum!

FWIW I have the same understanding about account beneficiaries overriding wills in the US. I suppose if there's a challenge to the execution of the estate it could get tricky, but that sounds unlikely in your situation.

My Mom is 101 years old and still hanging in there. She's in great shape (for 101) from the neck down, still walking without a walker or cane. She somehow avoided covid even though living in a facility with 4000 residents. But from the neck up all her systems are going bad. Her macular degeneration is complete, so she's legally blind. She's typically deaf, and the dementia really increased over the last 2 years so my brother just moved her from her independent living apartment into memory care. He's going through her stuff dividing up all the stuff from her apartment. It's tough on me, feels like she's already gone and we're divvying up the estate. But she's downsizing from an apartment to a hospital-type room. She has just tons and tons of bric-a-brac to deal with. The problem has always been she just had the two sons, and neither of us wanted all her pretty stuff. 

I'm going to have to load up a rental truck in Virginia and drive it to Laredo, and that will double my existing problem of getting my stuff which is already in Laredo in storage down to Cancun. But I'm working on it. I'm going to get some furniture I can use here, plus other stuff like pictures, quilts and towels.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

eastwind said:


> Well a bunch of faceless posters isn't much, but for whatever good we are, we'll be here for you. I don't want to be the only grumpy old man on the forum!
> 
> FWIW I have the same understanding about account beneficiaries overriding wills in the US. I suppose if there's a challenge to the execution of the estate it could get tricky, but that sounds unlikely in your situation.
> 
> ...


I come from a totally dysfunctional family. As far as I know (from internet searches) I have 1 of 3 brothers still alive and he is currently on his third wife. His first wife was the daughter of the 'hot dog king' of the US. Literally - this guy got a piece of every hot dog sold. As a wedding gift he gave my brother (and his new bride) a house (free and clear) in a very nice area just outside DC - where my brother was working at the time. Maybe that marriage lasted a couple years...

Anyway - I did not even attend my father's wake (but I liked him - sort of). I did attend my mother's wake years later (and I did not like her at all). Before her passing my mother and I talked briefly on the phone and I told her (nicely) - oh I don't need your money. Just leave everything to my brother's children. Well she followed my wishes - EXCEPT for one bank CD which was the remnants of my grandparents estate. It was left ITF (in trust for) me. I ended up getting those monies (with no effort on my part) - but that never sat well with my brother apparently.

Anyway - I never participated in the distribution of the family heirlooms. I might have liked the stamp / coin collections etc. No problem.

Fortunately my wife and I don't accumulate all that much stuff. Well - except she might have every receipt / utility bill / bank statement etc we have ever received in 40 years. SCUBA was a huge part of our lives back in Florida and we have (maybe) 20K of what was top of the line equipment. We are trying to have a shop in Mexico City take on all that stuff on consignment. It is that or give it to the local fire dept - who might not appreciate the gift. 

101 years is a lot (and I have no ambitions in that area) but I will share with you that my wife has had problems with her eyesight in recent years and there is an eye joint in Cuernavaca that you might want to at least shoot an email to for an opinion on your mother's situation. I have only been there a handful of times but I promise you that they see many many old people. 

You can simply google "acrec opthomology". They are the real deal.


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