# buying land/ruins and living off grid



## miss jones

Hey!
Can anyone shed any light on buying and living off grid in Italy (Portugal/Spain)
I have seen that you need a licence if a ruin if post 1951, 
How would you go about building a cob house? would you need planning permission and what are the chances of gaining this,
do most people buy land, build an electric source and hope for the best when living in a caravan?
we would be looking to keep livestock also, having seen some properties online some say it is possible to build or to use a caravan,

Also the tax'es (depending on value of property) is it only around 100 euros on a land and ruin worth around 30,000 euros?

Thanks


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## NickZ

What's a cob house?

Unless the area has some issues (quakes,landslides etc) you can normally rebuild what was there. You likely can't increase size but rebuilding can fall into routine repairs.

Italians don't normally live in caravans. You'll likely have trouble getting residence in one. In theory residence requires a habitable home.

Livestock? If you're talking about the common stuff (chickens,pigs,sheep,goats etc) there shouldn't be any issue outside of town. In small villages even in town might not be a problem.

Taxes? Which ones? You'll have purchase taxes. Land is taxed at different rates if it's over a certain size ( I think 10,000 square metres) If you buy a ruin and can't get residence you'll be paying second home rate for both the purchase and the on going council tax (IMU)

Taxes aren't based on market value but the recorded value. You'll pay more then €100 in purchase taxes. You'll pay much more then that in the various purchase fees.


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## miss jones

Thanks for your reply Nick, 
a cob house is made from clay, mud, and straw
I tried to post a link but couldnt

We have seen that in Portugal there are many people living self sufficiently and thought italy would be the same? by building a hut or living on the land, and use solar and wind turbines,
The yearly taxes I meant were things like council tax, or similar
Would you require planning permission to build and fix a ruin?

Livestock would be chickens, goats, sheep, ducks, to enable us to live self sufficiently, do you normally require a licence for this? just wondered why it wouldn't be as easy as buying livestock to put on your land?

Thanks


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## NickZ

Fix is one thing. Build new can be harder. 

Some of this is covered by regional/provincial laws. That means you'll find differences in different parts of the country. But normally if you don't increase the footprint of the home fixing a ruin shouldn't be an issue. Obviously check before buying. The bigger issue would be value. Fixing a ruin can end up more expensive then buying something already in reasonable shape.

If you get residence a home with a market value of 30K would almost certainly have zero in IMU (council tax). You'll face garbage tax which varies by location. But likely won't be enough to matter. If you don't get residence then IMU would likely be under €100 but this varies by town so could be slightly higher. If you have a fair bit of land you'll face farm IMU on the land.

I don't think you'll need a licence to raise. Things like slaughtering can be covered by various laws. At least for the bigger animals. Obviously if you intended to sell anything things get more legal.


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## BBCWatcher

miss jones said:


> a cob house is made from clay, mud, and straw


You could look at buying or renting a _trullo_ which looks like something a J.R.R. Tolkien character would live in. They are most commonly found in Puglia which is the southeastern part of Italy that includes the "heel of the boot."


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