# Help with citizenship application..



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

My ex husband has had ILR for about 5 years now and has recently applied for citizenship.
The has just got a letter back from the Home Office asking for proof that he was in fact resident for the period 18/12/09 - 11/07/2011. His Zimbabwean passport expired some years ago as he was told he would have to physically go to Zimbabwe to renew it  so has not bothered with it since. As a result he has never left the UK. The HO is asking for other evidence, some of which he has been able to supply but there is a gap. 

As he had suffered several mini strokes he did not work during that period and did not claim benefits either. He was caring for his mother and she was supporting him although he only applied for carers allowance after those dates.

He has applied for citizenship mainly to get a passport so he can visit our son in Zimbabwe. If the citizenship is turned down (which they have indicated it may well do) does anyone have any suggestions as to where he goes from there??


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The only thing I can suggest is to get an emergency passport, one-way passport etc from the Zimbabwean High Commission, and get his passport renewed there while visiting his son.

Does he have utility or council tax bills, expired NHS pre-payment certificate, insurance documents etc to show UK residence?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Was he receiving medical care during that time? Are there records?

If he's refused he will still have ILR.

Did he actually contact the Embassy to find out the procedure for renewing his passport? I don't know if this is an official site but I found this which seems to indicate he can apply from within the UK for a passport renewal:

http://www.zimbabwepassportservices.co.uk/subpage2 Passport Applications.html


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

He did have a phone line in his name but utility bills are not on the list of the suggested documents. His prescriptions he gets for free, being a diabetic. Another problem he is having is his memory since the strokes so this is very hard work.

The documents they are suggesting are more to do with income.

If he were to get an ETD and travel to Zimbabwe, renew his passport there, how would he stand when returning to UK? I take it he would not need a visa and would just show his ILR?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

nyclon said:


> Was he receiving medical care during that time? Are there records?
> 
> If he's refused he will still have ILR.
> 
> ...


Yes Nyclon he was very much receiving medical care as he is diabetic and has had 4 strokes, however the letter from the doctor saying he was registered there would not suffice.

Yes he will still have his ILR although it will be a shame to have wasted £1000 

It was a while ago that he enquired about the passport renewal so I shall have a look at that link. I do know it's an ongoing problem for Zimbabweans who have to renew their passports...


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Are doctors records evidence? Do a data protection request to doctors or any public body in fact and they will provide all info you request. Ie all contact with them between date 1 & date 2.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

_shel said:


> Are doctors records evidence? Do a data protection request to doctors or any public body in fact and they will provide all info you request. Ie all contact with them between date 1 & date 2.


I think the letter which he got from the doctor just stated that he was a patient there for 12 years so I can understand why that may not be acceptable.

How does a data protection request work? He was certainly visiting the doctor on a regular basis and being prescribed medication as he is diabetic and suffered several strokes, went for many tests and so on.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Shel, I've googled it and we are going to send an email to the Home Office asking if this will be acceptable information to them and the reasons why he cannot provide what they have requested. They are only giving him a week to send the information so we are going to ask for an extension as this will obviously take longer than a week to do and the fact that he needs a lot of assistance due to his health matters... :fingerscrossed:


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hertsfem said:


> If he were to get an ETD and travel to Zimbabwe, renew his passport there, how would he stand when returning to UK? I take it he would not need a visa and would just show his ILR?


Yes, on his BRP or his expired passport.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Yes, on his BRP or his expired passport.


No BRP Joppa as still applying for citizenship, would they give him a document on strength of ILR?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Hertsfem said:


> No BRP Joppa as still applying for citizenship, would they give him a document on strength of ILR?


He said BRP *or* expired passport with ILR will allow him to re-enter the UK if he travels to Zimbabwe.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Sorry Nyclon I'm confused! If he were to travel to Zimbabwe without being granted British citizenship then he could possibly get an ETD, renew his Zimbabwe passport whilst there and travel back showing his ILR at the border right? Where would a BRP fit into that as he does not have British citizenship as yet?


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## ngwestoe (Mar 15, 2014)

Hertsfem said:


> I think the letter which he got from the doctor just stated that he was a patient there for 12 years so I can understand why that may not be acceptable.
> 
> How does a data protection request work? He was certainly visiting the doctor on a regular basis and being prescribed medication as he is diabetic and suffered several strokes, went for many tests and so on.


He can actually request a GP factual report/ data print from when he was registered at the docs to present. It usually contains all the information or records about his visits to the GP and all monthly repeat prescriptions. Some GPs will ask for a small fee for them to release or print that data for him but usually its not much. Hope this helps x


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Hertsfem said:


> Sorry Nyclon I'm confused! If he were to travel to Zimbabwe without being granted British citizenship then he could possibly get an ETD, renew his Zimbabwe passport whilst there and travel back showing his ILR at the border right?


 Yes, which would be in his expired passport because they were not issuing BRPs when he applied for ILR. 




> Where would a BRP fit into that as he does not have British citizenship as yet?


It doesn't. Depending on when he applied for ILR he would either have a vignette in his passport *OR* a BRP. *If* he is granted UK citizenship then he will apply for a UK passport.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

ngwestoe said:


> He can actually request a GP factual report/ data print from when he was registered at the docs to present. It usually contains all the information or records about his visits to the GP and all monthly repeat prescriptions. Some GPs will ask for a small fee for them to release or print that data for him but usually its not much. Hope this helps x


Thanks for that info, will follow up on it...


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

nyclon said:


> Yes, which would be in his expired passport because they were not issuing BRPs when he applied for ILR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok got it now thanks Nyclon, he has his ILR on a seperate bit of paper called an Immigration stutus document as his passport had already expired at the time..

P.S. It says residence permit on it (never noticed that before) Just thought it was his ILR which it is.....but


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Hertsfem said:


> Ok got it now thanks Nyclon, he has his ILR on a seperate bit of paper called an Immigration stutus document as his passport had already expired at the time..
> 
> P.S. It says residence permit on it (never noticed that before) Just thought it was his ILR which it is.....but



Did he get it a really long time ago? I am just going to guess that if it was a really long time ago then that was what they issued and it was called a resident permit rather than ILR. ILR is a resident permit.

Hopefully Joppa can confirm.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

01/12/2008 Indefinate leave to remain it says. I'm just looking at a scanned copy of the pages of which there are four. One just says Home Office UK Border Agency, Immigration status document. Another gives his name DOB etc, another is like T & C's and the other which states date of issue etc is the one with the shiny bit, photo etc..


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Immigration Status Document is effectively a Home Office letter in place of visa/leave stamp or vignette. Yes, he can re-enter UK on that provided he hasn't been away longer than 2 years.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Immigration Status Document is effectively a Home Office letter in place of visa/leave stamp or vignette. Yes, he can re-enter UK on that provided he hasn't been away longer than 2 years.


Thanks everyone, holding thumbs they accept the medical records :fingerscrossed:


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

What I don't understand is why they want this information! The time covered i not 2 years so even if he was outside the country what difference would it make to his citizenship?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Is he applying on the basis of being married to a British citizen, for which the residential requirement is 3 years, or other basis which is 5 years?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Is he applying on the basis of being married to a British citizen, for which the residential requirement is 3 years, or other basis which is 5 years?


He is applying in his own right as we are no longer together Joppa So when does the 5 years begin?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

5 years leading up to his date of application. Total number of days allowed out of UK during that period is 450 days, and 90 days in the last 12 months.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> 5 years leading up to his date of application. Total number of days allowed out of UK during that period is 450 days, and 90 days in the last 12 months.


Thanks, so that be the reason then


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

So the fact he has lived there since 2001 has no bearing Joppa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

They will look at where he has been during the last 5 years and see if he has been away from UK for more than 450 days. So that will be 2010 to 2015, with exact dates depending on when he applied. Any former periods of residence have no bearing on their consideration and decision. They can use discretion over 450 days in 5 years, such as just a week or two over or reasons for absence were compassionate, such as serious illness or bereavement of close family members (with evidence supplied).


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Joppa, it's difficult proving that you did not leave the country at all. I assumed having no passport would be good enough but apparently not..


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If he has been in work during those periods, perhaps a letter from employer verifying his absences?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

No Joppa he was not in work as he was caring for his mother.

We got an automated email back from them today which basically refers to their website. 
In the letter we received it said if we were unable to supply the documents then they could be contacted either by email or post. The email says "IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ AS YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE ANOTHER RESPONSE‏"

I have suggested printing off the email send and the one received and sending it with a covering letter. What do you think Joppa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Very circumstantial, as emails can be sent and received anywhere in the world with UK-based email account. 
Perhaps a doctor or nurse looking after his mother can write something? That your ex was his mother's carer and he was always with her when they went to the house, or something.
Perhaps the best solution is to postpone applying for citizenship until the blank period drops out of reckoning.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

We are talking about 4 years ago here Joppa so it could be tricky. We just want to know if they can extend the deadline and if his medical records will be enough to satisfy them..


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As in my edited reply, the best solution, if declined, is to wait until the blank period drops out of reckoning, about a year or so from now.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Joppa but I doubt he will be able to find another £1000


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Seems like it could be good news! They made a phone call to the Home Office and asked if the medical records would satisfy the Secretary of State and they said "yes providing it covers the period" Also asked for the deadline to be increased and they said that would need to be put in writing which we are doing.

So they have gone off to the doctors to get it sorted :fingerscrossed:


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

If he's on good terms and they're able the doctor may well just print off what he needs there and then. Good news for him


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

_shel said:


> If he's on good terms and they're able the doctor may well just print off what he needs there and then. Good news for him


Thanks Shel, it's a new doctor as he recently moved but they should still have all the records. The ladies at the desk are very helpful so holding thumbs


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Doctors now routinely charge their own rate for producing a document. A fee of £50 to £100 is common.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Yes, that's not a problem in the grand scale of things lol


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

More worrying is that it can take a long time for an overworked doctor or surgery staff to produce a one-off document, especially if it involves looking up uncomputerised record.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

If using a subject access request under the data protection act they can charge £50 max and must respond in 40 days.

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/personal-information/


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Whether that is acceptable to Home Office is a moot point. I'd have thought it will have to be tailor-made to answer Home Office's specific query. Also government itself routinely exceed the 40-day time limit with impunity, with just an apology. And I believe you can decline to supply a written answer under FOI if it costs you more than £100 (I think that is the amount) to produce it.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

They just got back from the doctor who was most helpful said there was no problem. They are going to phone him back once it has been done. He has written a letter to the HO asking for the deadline to be extended etc :fingerscrossed:


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

They picked up the print out today which pretty much covered the whole period, at least one event each of the months (19 months) eye appointments, visits to the doctor, prescriptions, laser treatment, diabetic nurse appointments etc. They even made a complete set of copies for him (about 7 pages) and gave him an envelope to post it off with. All of that for NO charge 

Holding thumbs they will be satisfied now :fingerscrossed:


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

He has a very helpful and understanding GP!
Hope the evidence is sufficient.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Yes Joppa so do we :fingerscrossed:


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

He had a phone call today to say a decision had been made! should get it in the post by Thursday..

So it has taken exactly 5 months..

:fingerscrossed:


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Just an update...

This has been a compete disaster!

The documents with the decision made were posted out on 16th April to the OLD address, having been notified of a new address..

This has only recently come to light and he has now had to travel (at great expense) back to the original address to see if the documents are there. The flat is being renovated so there is nobody residing in the flat. On arrival it was all closed up so he had to go to the Estate agents to ask them. They are going to meet him at the flat tomorrow morning to see if the documents are in fact inside.

ALL this waiting and messing around and we still don't know if the decision is a positive one or not..


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Still no documents!

Seems it's all been sent back to Home Office


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

YAY he got the citizenship! Had a letter from Home Office but still not found the documents. I'm sure they will pitch up soon.

Now to book the ceremony then apply for a passport lane:

We are off to see our eldest son in Zimbabwe

Thanks for all the help Joppa, Nyclon and all of those that contributed


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Hertsfem said:


> YAY he got the citizenship! Had a letter from Home Office but still not found the documents. I'm sure they will pitch up soon. Now to book the ceremony then apply for a passport lane: We are off to see our eldest son in Zimbabwe Thanks for all the help Joppa, Nyclon and all of those that contributed


Great news!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Finally! Very happy for you!


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thank you lane:


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

So it turns out his documents were posted (to the wrong address) on 14th April. The email from Home Office is asking for our patience as they will hopefully be returned to them. FIVE weeks have already passed. Inside that envelope is every single bit of ID he has and he won't be able to apply for his passport without his old passport and birth certificate. We have applied for a duplicate drivers license for him so he at least has some ID.

What would you suggest is the way forward?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

What a mess! I suppose you have no choice but to wait for the missing parcel to be located and sent on.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> What a mess! I suppose you have no choice but to wait for the missing parcel to be located and sent on.


It sure is a mess Joppa, hope to goodness nobody chucked it in the bin!


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