# Future Expat hopeful.



## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

Hello everyone! 

My name is Tomas. Right now I am living in Los Angeles and it is my dream to live in Spain, or at least some where in Europe. I have been to many websites searching for information about emigrating from the United States. What I have learned is that it won't be easy. However this hasn't deterred me from my goal. I want to move to Spain with my wife ( She is from El Salvador but lives with me in LA.) I speak basic Spanish, but have no college degree. I have a variety of work and travel experience. Presently I work at an airport for a jet charter company. I also have some Real Estate, and call center experience. If any current expats could give me some advice about what methods I should choose to get myself and my wife to Spain I would appreciate it greatly. Are there any work sponsorship programs for industries in need of labor? I am highly motivated but I would like to know what other expats have done to get to where they are. Thank you.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Tomas, 

If you have read anything about moving to Spain you will be aware that it has the highest unemployment rate in the Eurooean Union - an average of 20 percent, much higher in the south.

It is very unlikely you will find work here, as you will be competing with 4 million Spanish people, many of whom are highly trained. Also, as you say, it is much harder for a US citizen than someone from an EU country to become resident here.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but that iis how it is right now.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

Tomas, it's going to be a real headache trying to get over here. Unless you get here under some sort of work-sponsored plan or have an enormous heap of savings (to prove you can survive without the help of the Spanish government), the Spanish government doesn't tend to let Americans in to live.

Here's the current catalog of "Ocupaciones de Dificil Cobertura:" https://www.redtrabaja.es/es/portal...rtura/CatalogoOcupacionesDificilCobertura.pdf
Please note, however, that these jobs mean living and working in the region listed. The government defines these jobs as: "_La presencia de una ocupación en el catálogo de la zona geográfica de que se trate, implica, para el empleador, la posibilidad de tramitar la autorización para residir y trabajar dirigida a un trabajador extranjero._"

How'd I get here? A scholarship through the Spanish government to assist in English classes. Unfortunately, this scholaship is limited to those in their junior or senior years of college and/or graduates. 

Another thought - where are your parents from? 

Good luck.


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## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Hi Tomas,
> 
> If you have read anything about moving to Spain you will be aware that it has the highest unemployment rate in the Eurooean Union - an average of 20 percent, much higher in the south.
> 
> ...


The last thing I want, is to live in a country and to be taking, I would prefer to acquire a skill that would allow me to contribute to the community I live in. Do you have any knowledge of how I could achieve this? Is there another country in Europe that I would have better chances. Unfortunately my favorite countries seem to be doing the worst economically right now. Cheers!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Symboliclarity said:


> The last thing I want, is to live in a country and to be taking, I would prefer to acquire a skill that would allow me to contribute to the community I live in. Do you have any knowledge of how I could achieve this? Is there another country in Europe that I would have better chances. Unfortunately my favorite countries seem to be doing the worst economically right now. Cheers!


I think it would be fair to say that the whole of Europe is still in crisis. The eurozone (the countries that use the eurodollar) are having a rough ride. Probably the most sound right now is Germany, altho even that is debatable. I really dont know of a skill you could acquire that could guarantee you work (computer, IT work seems to be buzz words???), but I think its safe to say that you would need to acquire it before you leave where you are now. That would also buy you some time to allow things to pick up over here maybe?????

Jo xxxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I think it would be fair to say that the whole of Europe is still in crisis. The eurozone (the countries that use the eurodollar) are having a rough ride. Probably the most sound right now is Germany, altho even that is debatable. I really dont know of a skill you could acquire that could guarantee you work (computer, IT work seems to be buzz words???), but I think its safe to say that you would need to acquire it before you leave where you are now. That would also buy you some time to allow things to pick up over here maybe?????
> 
> Jo xxxx


Even the IT industry is in trouble in Europe, as companies are outsourcing software development etc to places like India and Singapore where labour is cheaper.

The only "growth industry" seems to be caring for the elderly ... the population is ageing!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Hi Tomas,
> 
> 
> It is very unlikely you will find work here, as you will be competing with 4 million Spanish people, many of whom are highly trained. Also, as you say, it is much harder for a US citizen than someone from an EU country to become resident here.
> ...


Absolutely right! I met a spanish friend of a friend last week who spoke perfect english as well as dutch and german. He has countless qualifications in IT, as well as experience in customer service, management and much more...and guess what...he cant get work :confused2:

If he cant get a job, then sadly chances of a newcomer finding work are slim... but having said that.. right time, right place etc... who knows!

Good luck!:clap2:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Tomas, just curious and please don't feel obliged to answer, but why do you want to leave the US and live in Europe?


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## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Tomas, just curious and please don't feel obliged to answer, but why do you want to leave the US and live in Europe?


I have been to Europe twice now, and I feel like I have much more in common with the culture. I feel like I was born in the wrong country to be honest. I don't know if you have been to the US, but the lifestyle here does not fit me. Given my admiration of art and history I want to be immersed in a setting with a rich past. I could go on with my reasoning in depth but I would hate to bore you.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Symboliclarity said:


> I have been to Europe twice now, and I feel like I have much more in common with the culture. I feel like I was born in the wrong country to be honest. I don't know if you have been to the US, but the lifestyle here does not fit me. Given my admiration of art and history I want to be immersed in a setting with a rich past. I could go on with my reasoning in depth but I would hate to bore you.


I'm sure it wouldn't be boring! I have been to the US, but only to Boston and NYC on business. I could have spent weeks in the museums and art galleries there, especially the Met, far better than most European cities can offer! Though I'm sure LA is culturally very different from New York, just as London is worlds apart from where I live now in Southern Spain, and where I feel much more at home.

I believe you can make your own lifestyle wherever you are, and culture is more than just buildings and paintings. But I appreciate your desire to explore the world, especially as we are always hearing that so many of your fellow countrymen never leave the USA and wouldn't even be able to find Spain on a map. Best of luck!


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## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I'm sure it wouldn't be boring! I have been to the US, but only to Boston and NYC on business. I could have spent weeks in the museums and art galleries there, especially the Met, far better than most European cities can offer! Though I'm sure LA is culturally very different from New York, just as London is worlds apart from where I live now in Southern Spain, and where I feel much more at home.
> 
> I believe you can make your own lifestyle wherever you are, and culture is more than just buildings and paintings. But I appreciate your desire to explore the world, especially as we are always hearing that so many of your fellow countrymen never leave the USA and wouldn't even be able to find Spain on a map. Best of luck!


I guess it depends on ones taste whether it is boring here or not. I find LA to be a place full of movie star wanna be's who can't hold any significant conversation. Of course I'm generalizing but it's something that is prevalent here. New york I can't really speak for, I've only been once, but it's a bit too urban for my taste. As far as what you hear about some Americans not leaving the states and not knowing much about other places, it's mostly true. I try my best to make my lifestyle here, but you can't even see a decent game of football here. I try hard to enjoy MLS but even with Beckham LA Galaxy fail to impress. haha Although the buildings and paintings are what I love it's also the mentality in Europe I find appealing. It's difficult to relate to people here when all they know is the headlines in the latest tabloid or just wanna party or whatever. I'm not saying everyone is like this but you have to filter through a lot of it to find some people who are real and down to Earth. Maybe I was lucky but I was able to meet so many people who were interesting, and who I was able to have a variety of discussion with. Nothing has matched the joy I experienced while being in Europe with the exception of meeting my wife of course. Perhaps one day things will get better and I can find my place there.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

Symboliclarity said:


> I guess it depends on ones taste whether it is boring here or not. I find LA to be a place full of movie star wanna be's who can't hold any significant conversation. Of course I'm generalizing but it's something that is prevalent here. New york I can't really speak for, I've only been once, but it's a bit too urban for my taste. As far as what you hear about some Americans not leaving the states and not knowing much about other places, it's mostly true. I try my best to make my lifestyle here, but you can't even see a decent game of football here. I try hard to enjoy MLS but even with Beckham LA Galaxy fail to impress. haha Although the buildings and paintings are what I love it's also the mentality in Europe I find appealing. It's difficult to relate to people here when all they know is the headlines in the latest tabloid or just wanna party or whatever. I'm not saying everyone is like this but you have to filter through a lot of it to find some people who are real and down to Earth. Maybe I was lucky but I was able to meet so many people who were interesting, and who I was able to have a variety of discussion with. Nothing has matched the joy I experienced while being in Europe with the exception of meeting my wife of course. Perhaps one day things will get better and I can find my place there.


Tomas, may I just comment that if there's one thing I've learned while living abroad is that the world truly isn't as different as people like to think. If you want to get away from the latest tabloid, I suggest you take note of the Spanish afternoon programming lineup - between 3 and 8 pm, I'd bet about 1/4 of the programming is basically a television tabloid. Look up who "Belen Esteban" is, and why she's famous. 

Don't set yourself up for a big disappointment. Know that, worldwide, you're going to find things you like, and the very things you're trying to get away from.

If you dig down to the bottom, worldwide, we seem to all want the same things. You're going to find both good and bad worldwide. I'm currently frustrated because I was denied admission to a masters program, to which the first cut off point is my GPA. My GPA was good, but not good enough for the program. It's frustraing to come from a place where admission is based on so much more than x/4.0, and have to try to understand this new system.

May I suggest you take a smaller step before spending so much time and absolute frustration on trying to get to Europe? Maybe you might want to take a trip to another part of the US, and see how you like things? You like art? Boston, with its enormous concentration of universities might be of interest to you. The MFA just opened up a new wing, which I've heard is amazing. 

Either way, best of luck. Getting here legally will be a tough process, but I suppose if you're determined enough you can somehow make it happen.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

halydia said:


> May I suggest you take a smaller step before spending so much time and absolute frustration on trying to get to Europe? Maybe you might want to take a trip to another part of the US, and see how you like things? You like art? Boston, with its enormous concentration of universities might be of interest to you. The MFA just opened up a new wing, which I've heard is amazing.


Good idea - Boston has a very European feel about it and reminded me very much of Oxford, where I lived for 30 years. I could happily have lived there; several of my British friends did in fact relocate there.


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## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

halydia said:


> Tomas, may I just comment that if there's one thing I've learned while living abroad is that the world truly isn't as different as people like to think. If you want to get away from the latest tabloid, I suggest you take note of the Spanish afternoon programming lineup - between 3 and 8 pm, I'd bet about 1/4 of the programming is basically a television tabloid. Look up who "Belen Esteban" is, and why she's famous.
> 
> Don't set yourself up for a big disappointment. Know that, worldwide, you're going to find things you like, and the very things you're trying to get away from.
> 
> ...


I haven't been to Boston but I hear it's nice. The dilemma I would have would be to either use my vacation time to see Boston, or to explore more of Europe.

I realize there is much I haven't seen in the United States, though I feel like I've seen enough. San Francisco is the nicest place I can think of that I have been to. (Excluding the National parks.) However, nowhere has equaled the Majesty of Rome, Paris, Barcelona, or Stockholm. Not to mention the food, the arts, and music, the easy accessibility from point A to B. Then there is the melting pot that Europe is. Though the US is diverse there is still somewhat of a Xenophobic mentality here. People are afraid of immigrants, it is grossly offensive to speak another language aside from English to many. Though I'm aware that this is not a problem unique to the States it's something I want to escape from. I know I can't escape the superficiality, and materialism that I complain about here, because it is everywhere. I just hope to be somewhere that my soul will find some peace. Maybe it's because I was a tourist on vacation, but I did find my peace in much of Europe. Not just in the cities but in the countryside and nature as well. Few places I can think of have modern living in proximity to nature as well. I guess I am a demanding person and want it all. Sorry to be on a rant but there is no one I know that I can express this desire to.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Symboliclarity said:


> I haven't been to Boston but I hear it's nice. The dilemma I would have would be to either use my vacation time to see Boston, or to explore more of Europe.
> 
> I realize there is much I haven't seen in the United States, though I feel like I've seen enough. San Francisco is the nicest place I can think of that I have been to. (Excluding the National parks.) However, nowhere has equaled the Majesty of Rome, Paris, Barcelona, or Stockholm. Not to mention the food, the arts, and music, the easy accessibility from point A to B. Then there is the melting pot that Europe is. Though the US is diverse there is still somewhat of a Xenophobic mentality here. People are afraid of immigrants, it is grossly offensive to speak another language aside from English to many. Though I'm aware that this is not a problem unique to the States it's something I want to escape from. I know I can't escape the superficiality, and materialism that I complain about here, because it is everywhere. I just hope to be somewhere that my soul will find some peace. Maybe it's because I was a tourist on vacation, but I did find my peace in much of Europe. Not just in the cities but in the countryside and nature as well. Few places I can think of have modern living in proximity to nature as well. I guess I am a demanding person and want it all. Sorry to be on a rant but there is no one I know that I can express this desire to.



the saying "the grass is always greener on the other side" springs to mind!!! Sadly alot of what you've said about the USA is the same in Europe, especially what you say about immigrants, I've certainly not noticed a "melting pot" and as for language, the Spanish, in general expect you to speak Spanish and if you dont at least try its frowned upon. Living here, working and struggling to make ends meet here is different from a visit! In the end, its the same sh!t, different place!

BTW, I'm not trying to put you off and as I've never been to the US I'm not really in a position to make comparisons!

Jo xxx


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## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

jojo said:


> the saying "the grass is always greener on the other side" springs to mind!!! Sadly alot of what you've said about the USA is the same in Europe, especially what you say about immigrants, I've certainly not noticed a "melting pot" and as for language, the Spanish, in general expect you to speak Spanish and if you dont at least try its frowned upon. Living here, working and struggling to make ends meet here is different from a visit! In the end, its the same sh!t, different place!
> 
> BTW, I'm not trying to put you off and as I've never been to the US I'm not really in a position to make comparisons!
> 
> Jo xxx


I understand that as a tourist I wasn't able to gain a realistic perspective of life in another country. I visited Barcelona last February and when I arrived, I received a warm reception. I remember getting off the bus in la placa de catalunya not entirely sure where I was. My hostel was all the way in Badalona. After walking a few meters I realized I was walking down Las Ramblas; that I read about. I figured why not eat Tapas while I'm here. After eating I realized how easy it was to use the metro, and to get to where I was going. I didn't need a taxi, or a bus. In Los Angeles you're lucky if you wait less than 15 minutes, and you need to give yourself at least an hour and a half if you plan to use public transport. Most everyone has a car here any way. My Spanish worked well enough to get around smoothly, though I wouldn't call myself fluent. After arriving at my hostel and getting settled in, I walked the streets and found a frankfurt bar. After having a beer and having conversation with the staff they gave me a drink on the house. I have had so many experiences in Europe where I was welcomed like this. Not that I'm a freeloader, but no one has ever bought me a drink in my hometown. I'm not equating these friendly encounters with life being peachy in Europe either. It's just that I felt more at home than I have ever felt here. It's like my DNA was telling me this is where I came from. It wasn't just in Spain but in Italy, and Scandinavia as well. But why are my eyes on Spain? Well the most simple explanation is that I speak a lot more Spanish then any other foreign language. If I don't end up up there permanently I would at least dream to stay long enough to explore to my hearts content. After returning home I found myself wishing I could have been to the Nou Camp, and see a Barcelona game. Why did I skip the Parc Gruell? Valencia was only a few hours a way I wish I made the time to visit. So on and so forth. Anyways it is evident that my fascination and wanderlust is not quenched, but who's to say it will ever be. It's just that I'm a world away from where I want to be. Thank you for allowing me to share what's on my mind. It's just crazy lately I can't get the notion of one day living there out of my mind. I even have dreams about it. Waking up to realize, "Oh I'm still here, time to go back to work." I hope I'm not sounding pathetic, it's just after living in one place for 27 years, I am ready to make a drastic change. Cheers!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

You could always try the Czech Republic....Prague is a city everyone should visit once.
Poland.....the economy is growing steadily, there are some beautiful cities...Krakow is also a must-visit place.
Germany is becoming more and more Anglofied/Americanified each time I visit. English is widely spoken and an enormous number of English words have entered the German vocabulary.The economy is sound, exports booming -although Germany has ceded first place as world's leading exporter to China.
But as a non-EU citizen you will come last in the queue for jobs.
That will be true for most of the more 'developed' countries in Europe.
You also need to be aware of the new regulations for non-EU citizens intending to stay for long periods in member states which are in the Schengen Group.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Symboliclarity said:


> I understand that as a tourist I wasn't able to gain a realistic perspective of life in another country. I visited Barcelona last February and when I arrived, I received a warm reception. I remember getting off the bus in la placa de catalunya not entirely sure where I was. My hostel was all the way in Badalona. After walking a few meters I realized I was walking down Las Ramblas; that I read about. I figured why not eat Tapas while I'm here. After eating I realized how easy it was to use the metro, and to get to where I was going. I didn't need a taxi, or a bus. In Los Angeles you're lucky if you wait less than 15 minutes, and you need to give yourself at least an hour and a half if you plan to use public transport. Most everyone has a car here any way. My Spanish worked well enough to get around smoothly, though I wouldn't call myself fluent. After arriving at my hostel and getting settled in, I walked the streets and found a frankfurt bar. After having a beer and having conversation with the staff they gave me a drink on the house. I have had so many experiences in Europe where I was welcomed like this. Not that I'm a freeloader, but no one has ever bought me a drink in my hometown. I'm not equating these friendly encounters with life being peachy in Europe either. It's just that I felt more at home than I have ever felt here. It's like my DNA was telling me this is where I came from. It wasn't just in Spain but in Italy, and Scandinavia as well. But why are my eyes on Spain? Well the most simple explanation is that I speak a lot more Spanish then any other foreign language. If I don't end up up there permanently I would at least dream to stay long enough to explore to my hearts content. After returning home I found myself wishing I could have been to the Nou Camp, and see a Barcelona game. Why did I skip the Parc Gruell? Valencia was only a few hours a way I wish I made the time to visit. So on and so forth. Anyways it is evident that my fascination and wanderlust is not quenched, but who's to say it will ever be. It's just that I'm a world away from where I want to be. Thank you for allowing me to share what's on my mind. It's just crazy lately I can't get the notion of one day living there out of my mind. I even have dreams about it. Waking up to realize, "Oh I'm still here, time to go back to work." I hope I'm not sounding pathetic, it's just after living in one place for 27 years, I am ready to make a drastic change. Cheers!


I can understand that feeling of just wanting to be in another place, to try something different, to want to know about other places.
At university I had a picture of the statue of Christ in Rio on my wall, and it wasn't for any religious reason. I barely knew where it was, certainly didn't know anything about the country of Brazil, but it was always there at the back of my mind. Well, I never did get there, but I spent 2 years in Colombia and travelled around a fair bit in South America.
However I did have a job to go to and a certain amount of help at the beginning getting settled. 
What people say here about Europe at this moment is true, and Americans looking for work are in a very difficult situation. I hate to say this, but you may be looking at saving up your money and coming on a grand tour OR making a long term plan of looking for work in an American company that has offices in Europe. Meanwhile, brush up those language skills.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2010)

jojo said:


> the saying "the grass is always greener on the other side" springs to mind!!!* Sadly alot of what you've said about the USA is the same in Europe, especially what you say about immigrants, I've certainly not noticed a "melting pot" and as for language, the Spanish, in general expect you to speak Spanish and if you dont at least try its frowned upon.* Living here, working and struggling to make ends meet here is different from a visit! In the end, its the same sh!t, different place!
> 
> BTW, I'm not trying to put you off and as I've never been to the US I'm not really in a position to make comparisons!
> 
> Jo xxx


What Jo said is very important. In my personal opinion, I'd argue that Spain is more openly "intolerant" to immigrants than the US is. Remember, that immigration is new to Spain after so many years of effectively being closed off to the rest of the world. Once you've been racially profiled in the bus station and an undercover immigration cop stops you to ask for your papers, you might get a different feeling about the country. Looking "guiri" passes you off as a tourist, but if you look like you're from one of the countries that the vast majority of immigrants come from to Spain, you'll find things are different. 

And regarding the melting pot, the US is *EXPONENTIALLY* more diverse than where I live here. I miss diversity, and the benefits it brings!

As far as waking up and having the crushing realization that you have to go to work, know that it's just as rotten here once you've gotten over the delight of the new country. Look into the salary rates here and what you'd be paying in taxes. Calculate whether or not you'd be able to get by. Take into account that if you have a car, gas is three/four times more expensive here. If it wasn't for the fact that my fiancé is a government employee and I earn a grant, we wouldn't make enough for the both of us to get by.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2010)

I feel the need to state that it's not that we don't want you here, it's just the reality that without a significant chunk of savings (I think the figure is at least in the six-figures) you can't just get permission to be here. If you had a college degree, there's a really neat program to work in public schools assisting with teaching English, and that'd be the easiest way to get here apart from an American company bringing you in. 

You're going to be facing a lot of serious competition who are fluent in Spanish and have working papers. Do you have a unique skill? That could help, but as Pesky said, brush up on your Spanish. (Look into getting the DELE, that could help prove your Spanish skills to employers.) Unemployment here is twice what it is back home, so things are pretty rough even for the natives right now. This will not be an easy dream to fulfill.


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## Symboliclarity (Dec 8, 2010)

halydia said:


> I feel the need to state that it's not that we don't want you here, it's just the reality that without a significant chunk of savings (I think the figure is at least in the six-figures) you can't just get permission to be here. If you had a college degree, there's a really neat program to work in public schools assisting with teaching English, and that'd be the easiest way to get here apart from an American company bringing you in.
> 
> You're going to be facing a lot of serious competition who are fluent in Spanish and have working papers. Do you have a unique skill? That could help, but as Pesky said, brush up on your Spanish. (Look into getting the DELE, that could help prove your Spanish skills to employers.) Unemployment here is twice what it is back home, so things are pretty rough even for the natives right now. This will not be an easy dream to fulfill.


Thank you all for your comments, It is clear that first I should finish my studies, and then come up with a plan. It would be nice to have more than two weeks a year to see the World. Being a husband to an immigrant I can appreciate the difficulties of trying to make another country home. My wife is essentially a prisoner in this country. She has not seen her mother in 15 years, but due to the political climate in her country (El Salvador) she was granted protective status. Every year we pay about 1000 dollars to renew her work permit, and get her finger prints done, yet if I am to sponsor her she will have to return to her home country for anywhere from 6 months to 10 years. I was hoping we could find a better country to emigrate to, so we can avoid being separated. Right now El Salvador isn't at war anymore, but there is a lot of gang/drug violence. We are trying to stay away from that. Best wishes to all!!! Good luck with all your endeavors.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2010)

Tomas / first I must say that you definitively have the right spirit to go, to make something good in Europe. I have friends from the US, I have made a lot business there, travelled etc, there are all kinds of people in this big country, but some have a spirit like you have, it is a rare asset, don't loose it.

Second, wise forumers here have made it clear for you that it is not that easy to just come here and make success. I understand ofc your affection for Spain, having visited, your wife's language, your knowledge etc. It is not easy though, Spain is messy and there are many obstacles, many of which I have not encountered in other European countries I lived in.

A suggestion: while thinking this over, have a look at Romania. It is a country that just goes up from the revolution to now and forward. It is still very cheap compared to "western" Europe and imo oppotunities are great. The country have a not so good reputation, but it disappears after a first, even short visit and some basic knowledge. Language? It is basically latin, I have many Romanian friends who find Spanish very easy to understand. People are a charming mix of latin and slavic. Latin to the temper and to the characther, slavic to duty, work etc. 

Personally, I am in love with Romania, I am just waiting for property prices to raise here in Spain, if ever? ) so I can relocate. If so, ofc I will miss the climate here in Andalucia, but I am sure my heart will be warmer in Romania. 

Check it out, all the best of luck!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

VidaTombola said:


> slavic. Latin to the temper and to the characther, _*slavic to duty, work *_etc.
> 
> 
> !



I can't say I noticed much of that during my years in Prague


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I can't say I noticed much of that during my years in Prague


Prague is not Romania, or are you referring to Romanians there? I have visited the Czech republic, in my experience people are very different in those two countries. When I ask friends and people I meet in Ro if they feel more latin or more slavic, most answer latin. The language and the very name of the country gives a hint... I do not think you can compare the two countries at all.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Symboliclarity (my, that's a mouthful!), have you considered doing voluntary work in a Spanish-speaking Latin American country? That would certainly give you a view from the other side.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

VidaTombola said:


> Prague is not Romania, or are you referring to Romanians there? I have visited the Czech republic, in my experience people are very different in those two countries. When I ask friends and people I meet in Ro if they feel more latin or more slavic, most answer latin. The language and the very name of the country gives a hint... I do not think you can compare the two countries at all.


I wasn't. You miss the point. I was commenting on your 'slavic to duty and work' phrase which I have found to be untypical of Czechs, Russians and to some extent Poles, although the attitude there has changed greatly in the past two decades.
Czechs are Slavs......and they are not renowned for having a highly-developed sense of duty or a work ethic.
You should read Hasek's 'The Good Soldier Scwejk' which many Czechs themselves see as a faithful reflection of the Czech character.
I'm afraid Romanians in the CR, UK and most advanced European countries are not very popular, chiefly because most Romanian migrants in these countries are Sinti or Roma and experience much prejudice...some of which is, sadly, deserved.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I wasn't. You miss the point. I was commenting on your 'slavic to duty and work' phrase which I have found to be untypical of Czechs, Russians and to some extent Poles, although the attitude there has changed greatly in the past two decades.
> Czechs are Slavs......and they are not renowned for having a highly-developed sense of duty or a work ethic.
> You should read Hasek's 'The Good Soldier Scwejk' which many Czechs themselves see as a faithful reflection of the Czech character.
> I'm afraid Romanians in the CR, UK and most advanced European countries are not very popular, chiefly because most Romanian migrants in these countries are Sinti or Roma and experience much prejudice...some of which is, sadly, deserved.


yeah, mrypg, sorry, I missed the point in your comment. You have more experience than me in judging attitudes towards work, duties etc in Slavic countries. I have though seen this sense of duty in Romania and I, probably, misidentified it as "slavic", (opposed to pure latin where I really do not see it...).

I have read Svejk, first as a kid ages ago, gift from my father, then again some 15 years ago, very good book.

Besides that, you are right about the rep of Romanians in "western" Europe. And, yes, most of it is prejudice, like you say, sadly, very much deserved. I have a few Roma friends, life is not easy for them, not in Romania, not anywhere else. This is a problem. What concerns other Romanians living/working abroad my experience is that you do not notice them at all. Here in Spain I have come across a number of Romanians who I thought were Spanish, lol.

Anyway, to the OP, my thinking is that Romania is an interesting country on the move upwards, with many possibilities, maybe as opposed to Spain...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

VidaTombola said:


> yeah, mrypg, sorry, I missed the point in your comment. You have more experience than me in judging attitudes towards work, duties etc in Slavic countries. I have though seen this sense of duty in Romania and I, probably, misidentified it as "slavic", (opposed to pure latin where I really do not see it...).
> 
> I have read Svejk, first as a kid ages ago, gift from my father, then again some 15 years ago, very good book.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right on that point. I had a few Romanian students back in the UK, they had left Romania immediately after the overthrow of Ceasescu. They were keen to learn and as you rightly point out, the Latin legacy has infused the language so I was able to converse albeit in a basic way with my basic Italian.
Roma are treated very badly in the Czech education system: but it's a kind of vicious circle. Because of the intense prejudice against them in employment,Roma parents fail to see the value of education. Czech teachers interpret this as low intelligence and a disproportionately high number of Roma children are in 'special' schools.
The amount of open prejudice against Roma is quite shocking, even amongst supposedly cultured and educated people.
Education plus a change in attitude on both sides is needed but I fear the prospects are slim...


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2010)

mrypg / now I am getting seriously off topic discussing Roma in this thread, but yes, it is a vicious circle. The more badly treated, the more mess they get themselves into. Sad to hear about the Czech education system, but it is the same in other countries too. Then the trend, like in France, to send Roma people back to Romania or elsewhere, just because they are Roma, open hunting season it seems. Ok, sorry for this, back to topic. Symbol, check out more countries in Europe, travel around some if you can, but ofc the language here in Spain appeals to your wife, makes things so much easier.


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