# Studying Mandarin in Singapore



## Doug1943

I will be in Singapore for a couple of weeks in late March/early April.

I would like to take an intensive total beginners course in Mandarin. It could be during the day, the evening, the weekend, whenever.

Can anyone recommend any schools, or private tutors? 

Thank you!


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## anneteoh

Doug1943 said:


> I will be in Singapore for a couple of weeks in late March/early April.
> 
> I would like to take an intensive total beginners course in Mandarin. It could be during the day, the evening, the weekend, whenever.
> 
> Can anyone recommend any schools, or private tutors?
> 
> Thank you!


When you land in SG, get a copy of The Straits Times. You'll find lots of adverts offering Mandarin tuition. It'll be best to find a mainland Chinese teacher, esp one from Beijing for the accent. Soutern Mandarin, and Taiwanese Mandarin are slightly different - there're a lot of regional varieties. Though communication and understanding are not a problem, I think Beijing Mandarin is standard pronunciation. However, Taiwanese teachers might have retained more of the traditional culture and its impact on the language. 

An intensive course for complete beginners should be around 2 hours everyday with the teacher and lots of revision and writing on your own. You'll go through analytical stages and at some stage, you might just want to give up and say,"Impossible!" But then, you'll think of the millions who use the language fluently and knuckle down to it. Remember each character comprises a radical, sound and image component. Some teachers even teach pronunciation of the strokes but you'll find PINYIN indispensable and so helpful.

It's a fascinating language, especially if you find a great teacher who can explain the Qi in the wrtiting and the anatomy!
Good luck.


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## Doug1943

*Anneteoh*: Thank you so much for your advice! It was very helpful! (Especially the part about getting someone with a Beijing accent.) Do you know what tutors charge? I will have almost all day, for about ten days, to study. 

I will also be able to do some preparation before I come, starting now. Do you happen to know -- I will Google for it in any case -- of some simple on-line course, or source, for beginning to learn Mandarin?

Thank you again!


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## anneteoh

Doug1943 said:


> *Anneteoh*: Thank you so much for your advice! It was very helpful! (Especially the part about getting someone with a Beijing accent.) Do you know what tutors charge? I will have almost all day, for about ten days, to study.
> 
> I will also be able to do some preparation before I come, starting now. Do you happen to know -- I will Google for it in any case -- of some simple on-line course, or source, for beginning to learn Mandarin?
> 
> Thank you again!


You have such a passion for learning Mandarin, it makes me wonder why! To me, it's very powerful communication. I remember reading a simple poem in Chinese characters - the feeling is immense as it expresses itself visually and the music of the tones is surreal.
Regarding preparation, you can buy books pitched at the various stages or borrow them from libraries. If you're in the states, it'll depend on where you are.
Having been a bit of the old China hand before, I can say that there are many Americans involved with China, from the early Maoist days and even before - right back to the 18th century. It'll be a good guide to your learning and will definitely make you feel you're not on foreign ground.
I used to simply goggle Learning Mandarin and found on line courses for my school students who, at 11 - 13 years were dead keen on learning Chinese in 2005!
I also have a series of software which I bought in SIMLIM in SG - it's the place to go for computer wares. You'll find ad haoc stalls set up by mainland Chinese offering software packages for learning Mandarin. They are comprehensive packages with writing pads, pronunciation and double checking commands etc. but I never use it! It cost about $200 - 300 , I think.
I personally learn best with a teacher rather than a machine. 
But I think you have the same idea. The research and initial googling will certainly boost your learning so you'll start on sure footing.
All day learning for 10 days!!! - though PINYIN's romanized lettering, you must get the sounds right. That'll help your Mandarin pronunciation.
You might want to watch children's and other tv programmes for picking up on the intonations.
Ni hao?
Hen hao.
Xia xia ni. 
zhai jian.


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## Doug1943

Anneteoh: xièxiè! 

Why learn Chinese? They are one of the oldest civilizations on earth. As a teenager, I read the *Travels of Marco Polo* -- he found an advanced civilization, using paper money! -- when Europe was still in the dark ages. Later I read -- well, read some of -- Joseph Needham's *Science and Civilization in Ancient China. * No one who has the least familiarity with China can doubt that they will soon take their place as one of, if not THE, leading nations of the earth. 

I expect many great things from them: the people who invented the compass and gunpowder and many other things have a reputation for not being creative, for just copying: well, if that was somewhat true in the past, you can bet your bottom dollar -- if the dollar is still worth anything -- that they will soon regain their creativity. 

I probably won't be here to see that, but I want to inspire my grandchildren to "think Chinese" -- so I want to know at least enough about the language to give them elementary lessons, and make them knowledgeable enough about China so that they begin, naturally, to follow the developments there. I hope to send them to study there, when they are old enough.. And of course I look forward to speaking some myself.

Yes, Americans have long had much to do with China, not all of it benign. I am no Anna Louise Strong, but I can understand the powerful sentiment behind Mao's statement, in 1949, "The Chinese people have stood up!" And it was true, despite the follies and crimes of that European invention unfortunately adopted by him, Communism.

Let them learn from the mistakes of the Europeans, and avoid war (while remaining strong) and they will astonish us all, I am sure.

Thank you again for your very helpful advice!


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## anneteoh

Douglas, ni shuo le Han yu hen hao. 

Ah, so you read Sir Joseph Needham, late president of SACU - Society for Anglo-Chinese Understanding. He had indeed, brought out the countless inventions from China. There was also a French historian Jean ... who wrote about Chinese history commenting that Mao was a romantic politician and that China had experimented with the most romantic form of politics - equal status and pay for all. Unfortunately, that couldn't work as many who did not profit personally preferred to laze about rather than slave for the enrichment of the state! Such is the capitalism inherent in those whose altruism have not been developed. 

Regarding A.L. Strong, there were so many others, among them Edgar Snow and Helen Snow, Norman Bethune, Pearl S. Buck and names I can't recall at the moment - many of whom marched with the communists. I think that if you were to read the people's struggles against the KMT and the Japanese invasion, not to say the the 'gun boat' policy of Europe, you will appreciate how most Chinese people empathise with the communists. It was an intellectual movement and was clean and highly effective before the cultural revolution . But, some China watchers attribute China's success today to a lot of the experiments carried out in the disastrous great leap forward right up to the cultural revolution, and I would agree with them for many reasons to do with understanding the changes a deeply conservative 
( and feudalistic ) society like old China needed to propel the country into the 20 century.

But as you said, I hope the benign and peaceful attitude don't change! Throughout history, other countries invaded China rather than the other way round; hence the great wall.
The West had done atrociously bad things in China; but that was during the time of the Manchus when the Chinese themselves were discriminated against in their own kingdom (!) . Lu Xun wrote The Story of Ah Q, a poignantly satirical story about the Chinese themselves. which reminds me that apart from business, inventions and the like, China has a very ancient literary tradition; its early poems explored ideas of colours, images, rhymes and sounds and have largely contributed towards the modern development of Haiku.

It's great to hear about your high regards for China. I had envisioned sending my daughter to Shao Lin to study kung fu and the moral discipline in Chinese tradition. Ethical considerations like filial piety and virtue are such civilized concepts and good practices - one realises in middle age! However, Shao Lin came right across my road instead but my daughter went for Wing Chun instead. 

It's also great to hear you take reponsibility for the political arrogance of some of the politicians in the West but there're also good things from good people in the West. I dearly appreciate the concept of free will and personal liberty and balancing freedom with virtue and filial piety are very civilized ideals indeed. A harmonious relationship between the East and the West is what we all need. They can balance each other like the complementary concept of Daoism e.g. freedom and restraint, light and darkness etc. 

I think Chinese is best appreciated through its characters and sounds - in the irrelevant masterstrokes of its calligraphy and musical intonations, so I won't use Pinyin, though it's useful as a tool: but its precision and syllabic translation rather stifle the beauty of Mandarin.


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## simonsays

my 2 cents: from my own experience - as Anne says : unless you are passionate, it is a tough language with each tone making a different meaning .. 

If you are passionate - you can do it ..


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## Kara1948

I know that to really begin to learn this language, I would have to live in China for years. But I can at least make a start, and even the longest journey begins with but a single footstep.

I'm going to do as much as I can of the BBC Chinese course, so by the time I get to Singapore in late March I will already have some familiarity with it. I think the main thing I will need is someone who can correct my pronunciation, especially the tones.


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## simonsays

The tones are what makes or kills you - my 2 cents is - try to practice with friends - and my suggestion is from having followed six months of lessons and not being able to speak as the fear or wrong tone leading to a different meaning haunts me (well, it was an embarassing incident though .. )

You need to practice and if you can, find a chinese speaking person back home and practice .. 

Chinese, unlike most people, are a bit vary of non-native people speaking their language, and they frown on those who try to throw a few words here and there .. unlike Malays, Indonesians or Filipinos .. But once you show you have some meat, then they will warm up to you fast .. 

Fret not ...


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## anneteoh

ecureilx said:


> The tones are what makes or kills you - my 2 cents is - try to practice with friends - and my suggestion is from having followed six months of lessons and not being able to speak as the fear or wrong tone leading to a different meaning haunts me (well, it was an embarassing incident though .. )
> 
> You need to practice and if you can, find a chinese speaking person back home and practice ..
> 
> Chinese, unlike most people, are a bit vary of non-native people speaking their language, and they frown on those who try to throw a few words here and there .. unlike Malays, Indonesians or Filipinos .. But once you show you have some meat, then they will warm up to you fast ..
> 
> Fret not ...


Ecureilx;43771
I see numbers being attached to all your names and hey, bingo! What's this about numbers added after the names , Ecureilx, please?

There're only four tones in Mandarin - just practise them like you're singing a scale in C major - level, rising, fall-rise, departing: --- , / , V , ! ( sorry , slant the exclamation the other way to the right ).

If I remember correctly, you're French aren't you? Mandarin shouldn't be difficult for you really. Just let go of your fears - languages are fun. And even if a tone or two create semantic uncertainties for the listener, they will have the context in your sentence, and it's not hard to know what you intend to express. 

I personally find it deliciously pleasing to hear foreigners speak native languages. They add colours and tones to the received pronunciation and enrich the particular language like Franglais for example.

Some Chinese can't speak Mandarin and some speak it with their dialectal accents which you will think is strange.

Chinese, like most other people, love to hear foreigners speaking Chinese. I'm not fluent in Mandarin myself and when I stumble for words, the lao bai xin in Beijing would laugh and call me a foreigner - wai guo ren ( literal translation - outside national ) but they'll help. 

Selamat hari.


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## anneteoh

Doug 1943
You've opened up an interesting thread, What encouragement would you have for Ecureilx?
BTW, why is everyone like Kara and yourself going to SG to learn Mandarin? I'm actualy going to SG myself in early April!


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## simonsays

anneteoh said:


> Ecureilx;43771
> I see numbers being attached to all your names and hey, bingo! What's this about numbers added after the names , Ecureilx, please?


Well, that numbers is the forum thread number - something that I mucked up while replying  Ignore it .. and dunno how it happened 



> If I remember correctly, you're French aren't you? Mandarin shouldn't be difficult for you really. Just let go of your fears - languages are fun. And even if a tone or two create semantic uncertainties for the listener, they will have the context in your sentence, and it's not hard to know what you intend to express.


Well, I did spend six months with the Singapore Buddhist center, along Dickson road, before giving up .. no ma'am, I am not french, and maybe that plays a part in my not being able to swirl my tongue 



> I personally find it deliciously pleasing to hear foreigners speak native languages. They add colours and tones to the received pronunciation and enrich the particular language like Franglais for example.


Well, as I said, most chinese I have seen frown on those who speak a sprinkling of words .. and warm up if the person knows more than a few words  

Guess it is a cultural thingy .. 



> Some Chinese can't speak Mandarin and some speak it with their dialectal accents which you will think is strange.


Am used the various dialects - so I'm careful not to butt in, when it doesn't sound mandarin, and instead quitely ask what it was all about !! 



> Chinese, like most other people, love to hear foreigners speaking Chinese. I'm not fluent in Mandarin myself and when I stumble for words, the lao bai xin in Beijing would laugh and call me a foreigner - wai guo ren ( literal translation - outside national ) but they'll help.


Ha ha .. mostly I only hear siao ang moh  Nah - kidding .. and while contemplating whether I should put Xiao or Siao - I got the following on Wiki !!

Xiao may refer to:

* Xiào, “filial piety", or "being good to parents", a virtue
* Xiao (flute), a Chinese end-blown flute
* Xiao (rank), a rank used for field officers in the Chinese military

Cheers


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## simonsays

anneteoh said:


> Doug 1943
> You've opened up an interesting thread, What encouragement would you have for Ecureilx?
> BTW, why is everyone like Kara and yourself going to SG to learn Mandarin? I'm actualy going to SG myself in early April!


Leave me alone lady   (that was in jest .. )

I been here for 10 years, and not knowing Mandarin didn't bother me much, except while trying to order food from the hawkers - who are majorly from China nowadays .. 

As for Doug and Anne - yah, why Singapore ? That's a question of Curiosity ..


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## anneteoh

Ecureilx
*是你送我汉语的词典吗?

谢谢你*


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## simonsays

anneteoh said:


> Ecureilx
> *是你送我汉语的词典吗?
> 
> 谢谢你*


I used google translation to decipher your chinese  

Well, I think your pc has the 'multi language' option and is refusing to switch back to English - 

No - you don't get infected by reading a forum .. all that happens is those tool-bars, like the AskJeeves, or Google toolbar think you are continuing in chinese and switch keyboard to chinese .. PM me if you need some pointers ..


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## anneteoh

Ecureilx 
You're an unsung hero.
Now I can write using zhong -* 中* (centre) or ying* 英* ( heroic) meaning Chinese or English.
You must be working for Google or Microsoft?
This will certainly help me, and others learn or upgrade their Mandarin. Can everyone have access to this amazing tool?

*这 可 事 请是 真很 利害 了！现在 我们客人仪一切望全学汉语。*Awesome technology.
But one spends a lot of time brushing up on the pinyin. I'm sure this will hep improve my reading though.
Can you read at least 30% of what's written in Chinese here?


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## simonsays

no ma'am - I cant read Chinese 

I used translate.google.com - nothing fancy  

And as of now, I am looking for a job  No kidding ..

Cheers


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## anneteoh

*Good luck!*



ecureilx said:


> no ma'am - I cant read Chinese
> 
> I used translate.google.com - nothing fancy
> 
> And as of now, I am looking for a job  No kidding ..
> 
> Cheers


I'm sure you won't be out of work for long. SG seems to be the place where people go to get a job. 
I was thinking of finding work in SG and looking at the prosepct of getting PR and retiring out there but from what I gather, living expenses are rising steeply out there. 
Good luck Ecureilx. and let us know how it goes.


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## simonsays

anneteoh said:


> I was thinking of finding work in SG and looking at the prosepct of getting PR and retiring out there but from what I gather, living expenses are rising steeply out there.
> Good luck Ecureilx. and let us know how it goes.


Well, within this region, and probably the whole of Asia, Singapore is the only country where 7-11 shops don't have armed guards, and Goldsmiths and Jewelery shops are not built like fortresses .. and every criminal is named and shamed and crime is lowest in the region .. yeah, the higher cost of living does have it's trade-offs


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## Doug1943

I chave been coming to Singapore for about twenty years, to teach, during the Easter vac. 

But I have spare time on my hands during the day, so I decided to learn as well. And it seemed like a good place to start learning Mandarin.

I figure if I can get past the tones, i.e. learn them, that I can go a good ways forward on my own.


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## anneteoh

BTW, since I replied to you , I have had help from Ecureilx who activated my Chinese language software with the commands 中 or 英 。I can now word process in Mandarin so long as I know the pinyin, but it takes time，as unless I'm sure of the characters, I need to check it with the dictionary. 

你 好。在见。


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## Doug1943

I didn't quite follow the exchange which resulted in your being able to type in pinyin and get proper characters ... is it possible to explain how I go about it?

Thanks!


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## Doug1943

I didn't quite follow the exchange which resulted in your being able to type in pinyin and get proper characters ... is it possible to explain how I go about it?

Thanks!


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## anneteoh

ecureilx said:


> Well, within this region, and probably the whole of Asia, Singapore is the only country where 7-11 shops don't have armed guards, and Goldsmiths and Jewelery shops are not built like fortresses .. and every criminal is named and shamed and crime is lowest in the region .. yeah, the higher cost of living does have it's trade-offs


Hi. Hope you've found the job of your dreams. 
It can't be that dangerous in SE Asia? I don't see armed guards in 7/11 shops in KL or Penang? 
I recently watched a documentary on the Philippines which shocked me as the capital, Manila, seems to be degenerating into uncontrolled overpopulation, overcrowding and crime. It seems that the current PM hasn't done much to improve the standard of living for the country.
But SG has always been a safe place long before the current hike in the general cost of living. 
I reckon the high cost of living arrived first with the global economic downturn in America and Europe brought about by the fraudulent investment fund managers and is followed by the current oil crisis which triggered inflation in petrol and food prices. 
The trade off must surely come from the economic success itself which helps to increase the population and spending power of SG by bringing in skilled workers.


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## anneteoh

Doug1943 said:


> I didn't quite follow the exchange which resulted in your being able to type in pinyin and get proper characters ... is it possible to explain how I go about it?
> 
> Thanks![/QUOTE/}
> 
> Hi. First of all, thanks for your feedback re the reason you're taking up Mandarin in SG. Yes, indeed, concerning my sudden access to Mandarin - it's an enigma I would have understood myself. It truly seems like divine providence! And Ecureilx is the angel. According to him, my system is already installed with Google multil- languages and all he did was to activate the Mandarin component.
> I have known I was able, sometimes, to get French translations but that did not really work perfectly and the command tool and translation are not as efficient as the Chinese - English tool which appears and stay at the baseline of my computer. It appeared as miraculously as that - just popped out and works at my command. Very much like a personal translator.
> Since you sound like a sharing internationalist, I can tell you that I bought my laptop from Simlim in SG, the centre for all things techonolgical. So I gather you can follow one or all of these steps:
> 1. Visit Simlim and ask about the multilanguages software
> 2. Ask Ecureilx to help explain how you can get the multilanguages software and have it activated
> 3. Goggle your question.
> Good luck and let us know how it works as I'd like to have French/Italian/Latin and German, and a few more languages in my baseline though I'm not in any way close to being a translator.


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## Adent

Wow, this website is fascinating...

I am going to move to Singapore in about 8 months with my family. I will finish high school in Singapore and was wondering if it was worth it to learn Mandarin. I'm not sure where I'm going to go for college (states or SG), but if I do stay in SG how useful is it to know Mandarin? If I was to learn the language, what would be the best way to go about it? A class in school or outside of school? Should I prepare before I move, if so when should I start and how should I do it?


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## Doug1943

Adent: I am in something similar to your situation, just fifty years ahead of you.

For what it's worth: you can get by fine in Singapore without Mandarin. But start studying it anyway! It is going to rival English as a world-historic language within your lifetime, and even having just a very basic acquantance with it will put you streets ahead of most Americans. You may even find you get jobs because what distinguished you from the other applicants is that you "know some Chinese".

I wouldn't expect to "learn Mandarin" , i.e. become reasonably fluent, during your stay, however. For that, you would probably need intensive study and a period of time living in a provincial Chinese city were almost no one speaks English.

But think how proud of yourself you'll be, if you can say, "Hello, Goodbye, My name is, I lwas born in, I am studying xxxx, my favorite chinese author is, Gosh, it's hot/cold/nice/rainy today, where is the nearest toilet please, how do I get to the railway station, " etc etc. And you can learn these phrases fairly quickly. 

And Singapore will give you lots of chances to practice .... and practice is the key! Don't be embarrased about your terrible accent... just boldly go where you haven't gone before. You'll never regret it.


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## anneteoh

Adent said:


> Wow, this website is fascinating...
> 
> I am going to move to Singapore in about 8 months with my family. I will finish high school in Singapore and was wondering if it was worth it to learn Mandarin. I'm not sure where I'm going to go for college (states or SG), but if I do stay in SG how useful is it to know Mandarin? If I was to learn the language, what would be the best way to go about it? A class in school or outside of school? Should I prepare before I move, if so when should I start and how should I do it?


Glad you find it so. Mandarin's a very difficult language. At some stage, you'll find it impossible ( like I did ) but then you begin to grasp how to identify the radicles, phonics and images and it becomes fascinating. Mao simplified it - old Chinese or Jian di fan would have been near impossible as there wasn't any Pinyin and the translations were hideously different from different sources.
But it's all made much easier now.
Most, if not all, Chinese students take Mandarin as their mother tongue language -and the standard's much higher than that in the Oxbridge modern languages exams papers.
English is the official language in SG so you needn't worry but you'l have to get used to Singlish.
There're innumerable places where you can learn M in SG - check out posters advertising M classes in the evenig or w/ends, read The Times classofied ads, ask you college teachers...
ALways good to prepare ahead - buy some Learn M books written in English with Pinyin and M characters, read about how the langauge developed ( fascinating) and learn to read and write about 200 characters with the correct intonation.
Google can access you to many sources online too.


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## anneteoh

One of my old books, Fun with Chinese Characters, Federal Publications 1982, SG makes learning to write Chinese characters intelligible. This can be illustrated with the image of -

*聪 明* （cong ming)
radicle - *耳* = meaning ear, thus suggesting attentiveness
phonic - *聪 *（ without the ear ) meaning comprehensiveness over *心* heart or emotion
= good comprehension combined with *明* = ming - formed from the original images of the sun and moon, meaning brightness
Hence, *聪 明* = intelligent.

Imagine teaching a young child intelligent in Chinese. Makes a lot of sense?


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## Adent

Wow! Thanks you guys for answering so quickly.

Yeah, I never expected to "learn" the language, because I have a friend who has been taking it for 10 years and still isn't fluent.

About how expensive would a class be? I don't know what type of class I would be able to take coinciding with school, so if the only thing I could do is once a week, would I really be able to learn the basics?

And on another note, how are the colleges in Singapore compared with the US? I did some searches and NUS and NTU seem good. How would they compare with say the University of Washington, Harvard, Stanford, Arizona?


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## anneteoh

Adent said:


> Wow! Thanks you guys for answering so quickly.
> 
> Yeah, I never expected to "learn" the language, because I have a friend who has been taking it for 10 years and still isn't fluent.
> 
> About how expensive would a class be? I don't know what type of class I would be able to take coinciding with school, so if the only thing I could do is once a week, would I really be able to learn the basics?
> 
> And on another note, how are the colleges in Singapore compared with the US? I did some searches and NUS and NTU seem good. How would they compare with say the University of Washington, Harvard, Stanford, Arizona?


I guess we had the time and a passion for the subject matter.
Doug1943 gave some very good advise - just do it. Try to find an opportunity to work/tarvel to Mandarin speaking countires when you have some Mandarin - best to live and learn among the target language speakers. 

You could advertise for languages swap - e.g. English for Mandarin, It should be quite cheap to enroll at community language centres - you'll find no end of places to learn Mandarin once you're in SG.

I was at the SG university for a 2 day conference on Teaching English in SE Asia. I was amazed with the standard and up to the minute courses e.g. in deconstructionism more than a decade ago.Most students are only accepted for the BA degrees at SG Uni if they get a clutch of A*- As for their A levels。

Well, I think Havard is in a league of its own and SG uni is fairly new compared to vintage like Stanhope, Princeton or MIT, Cambride or Oxford. When I left SG in 2001, the SG univeristy of Business Management or something to that equivalent was being set up - it probably has American/International connections. Google the colleges and ask for prospectuses.


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## ghlk

A recommendation for you. If you need an intensive course, one-on-one classes will be suitable because of its flexibility. I am now learning Mandarin in an online school and find it really a great choice for total beginners (here is their location: http://www.echineselearning.com ). The school provides its students with professional Chinese teachers (as far as I know, they all have studied Chinese-teaching and of course they are mainland native speakers), tutoring via Skype (or other Internet communication tools), and when and how often you will have classes is up to you. No need to worry about yourself being a total beginner. They will show you the best way to learn Mandarin and design the lessons according to your levels and requirements. BTY, my teacher is with a beautiful Beijing accent, completely the same with the news report in Chinese!):eyebrows:


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