# from bad to worse



## MaidenScotland

VIDEO: Egyptian police strip, beat man in front of presidential palace - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


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## aykalam




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## Homeless

aykalam said:


> ‫??? ?? ???????? ??????? .. ???? ??????‬‎ - YouTube


A few years ago-way before the revolution- I was vacationing in Dahab. I dived with the same center I had dived with on previous trips and used to hang out with the guides and instructors at the center. A canadian woman was there for about a month doing her divmaster and used to hang with the guys as I and others did. One day. I was sitting with a couple of the guys and they were talking about a staff member who was fired for attacking the woman the previous night and tried rape her. She screamed and hit him and got away. The other guy exclaimed something like "what about me, I'd like to rape her too". Difficult to translate exactly from Arabic but what he meant was what a lucky guy, the other guy was, for getting the chance to rape her that he would've liked to do the same. The moral of the story is the society is so rotten to the roots that the norms of behavior have been turned upside down. The ills of the society require decades of treatment that needs a strategy and will that doesn't exist anywhere in the world today. This is why I lost hope for any meaningfull change in Egypt. And this is one reason why I wrote that it is wise for those wanting to live in Egypt to not learn the language. You don't want to know what the really believe.


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## Homeless

YouTube

This guy is saying that the man who was stripped of his clothes by CSF actually took his clothes off so the they can not catch him. You have to admit these sheikhs are often comical.


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## expatagogo

Homeless said:


> The moral of the story is the society is so rotten to the roots that the norms of behavior have been turned upside down. The ills of the society require decades of treatment that needs a strategy and will that doesn't exist anywhere in the world today.


It's even more difficult to wrap your head around when it comes all wrapped up in an angel suit.

You're right; it's twisted.


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## ptrichmondmike

Lots of posts on this forum depict a very sordid Egypt. Why do you all stay?


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> VIDEO: Egyptian police strip, beat man in front of presidential palace - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


They're not police.........:ranger:


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## MaidenScotland

ptrichmondmike said:


> Lots of posts on this forum depict a very sordid Egypt. Why do you all stay?




Some of us have family here and it's home, others work and are under contract, some of us think it's better the devil you know, and then some of us think well it's not like this every day.


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## DeadGuy

Homeless said:


> A few years ago-way before the revolution- I was vacationing in Dahab. I dived with the same center I had dived with on previous trips and used to hang out with the guides and instructors at the center. A canadian woman was there for about a month doing her divmaster and used to hang with the guys as I and others did. One day. I was sitting with a couple of the guys and they were talking about a staff member who was fired for attacking the woman the previous night and tried rape her. She screamed and hit him and got away. The other guy exclaimed something like "what about me, I'd like to rape her too". Difficult to translate exactly from Arabic but what he meant was what a lucky guy, the other guy was, for getting the chance to rape her that he would've liked to do the same. The moral of the story is the society is so rotten to the roots that the norms of behavior have been turned upside down. The ills of the society require decades of treatment that needs a strategy and will that doesn't exist anywhere in the world today. This is why I lost hope for any meaningfull change in Egypt. *And this is one reason why I wrote that it is wise for those wanting to live in Egypt to not learn the language. You don't want to know what the really believe.*


A very realistic way to describe how messed up the Egyptian "society" is..........

Learning Arabic would probably help avoiding many situations, true, but again what happened in Hurgada while I was working there for less than 2 weeks comes to mind..........A waiter "teaching" a female tourist the Arabic of something, _"I'm a cow"_.........I can't remember what the Hell was he telling her he's _teaching _her, but he didn't tell her he was teaching her THAT! 

I'd say trusting *NO ONE* in Egypt would be the wise thing to do for those wanting to live in Egypt..........:juggle:


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## ptrichmondmike

MaidenScotland said:


> Some of us have family here and it's home, others work and are under contract, some of us think it's better the devil you know, and then some of us think well it's not like this every day.


Well, those cover most of the bases...lol. Interesting variations in expat attitudes toward the host country from forum to forum. There seems to be a mixture of love/hate here, while most Phillipines expats (those posting, anyway) clearly dislike it, and most of my Mexico compadres adore the place, warts, violence and all.


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## expatlady

DeadGuy said:


> A very realistic way to describe how messed up the Egyptian "society" is..........
> 
> Learning Arabic would probably help avoiding many situations, true, but again what happened in Hurgada while I was working there for less than 2 weeks comes to mind..........A waiter "teaching" a female tourist the Arabic of something, _"I'm a cow"_.........I can't remember what the Hell was he telling her he's _teaching _her, but he didn't tell her he was teaching her THAT!
> 
> I'd say trusting *NO ONE* in Egypt would be the wise thing to do for those wanting to live in Egypt..........:juggle:


When I was a young student I backpacked through Europe -and over to Morocco with half a dozen others. Arriving with the ferry in Morocco late in the evening, we sat down in a park and discussed the options for the night. 

A group of very sweet young local children, about 8-10 years old, soon arrived on the scene, dancing and singing around us. We, especially the females in the group, found the children absolutely adorable.

That is, until the one Arab-speaker in our group translated what the children were singing: "Go, go, go and sleep in the park tonight, so we can steal your money."

Adorable/charming children/adults, singing/speaking in a language I do not understand, have never been the same to me since.


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## MaidenScotland

I had a child aged about 8 banging on my car window yesterday shouting for money.. we of course just sat and ignored her then she stated shouting just one pound and then in english.. you SOB we all cracked up..


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## Buffy7

Egypt may have fetid aspects of its society - like MANY around the world do, to some degree or another - but I would like to hope that many of the expats in Egypt find at least some small facet of daily life that is enjoyable..it is sad that there is a heavy majority of ill-educated, sexist idiots here in Egypt, but there are also delightful, intelligent, and incredible people here that far eclipse the negative characteristics of some others here.
I came from Switzerland - we in fact moved from Geneva - an area of Switzerland that is fast becoming notorious for drug crime and random violence - after I received news an 86 year old woman; friend of the family; was beaten and robbed by four men in a park in a supposedly upper class area. I was also victim to a violent attack, which prompted me to move here - and I am far happier, irregardless of the tumultuous circumstances.
If you search for positivity you can find it in life in any country; we must simply adapt and learn to phase out these negative things - as some suggested, not to trust any stranger or be cautious in general - and life can be good here!


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## MaidenScotland

Buffy7 said:


> Egypt may have fetid aspects of its society - like MANY around the world do, to some degree or another - but I would like to hope that many of the expats in Egypt find at least some small facet of daily life that is enjoyable..it is sad that there is a heavy majority of ill-educated, sexist idiots here in Egypt, but there are also delightful, intelligent, and incredible people here that far eclipse the negative characteristics of some others here.
> I came from Switzerland - we in fact moved from Geneva - an area of Switzerland that is fast becoming notorious for drug crime and random violence - after I received news an 86 year old woman; friend of the family; was beaten and robbed by four men in a park in a supposedly upper class area. I was also victim to a violent attack, which prompted me to move here - and I am far happier, irregardless of the tumultuous circumstances.
> If you search for positivity you can find it in life in any country; we must simply adapt and learn to phase out these negative things - as some suggested, not to trust any stranger or be cautious in general - and life can be good here!




Yes of course we find many fine aspects about living here, although Pat says I live in a bubble. I do have Egyptian friends that I socialise with but on the whole I do not go to Egyptian "style" venues. mainly because I do not like the fact I cannot get away from cigarette smoke or music that is just about bursting my eardrums. 


One thing I do find hard to understand.. 

I am just back from Shabramant and found to my disgust/horror that the huge area underneath the Monieb bridge is being filled in with household rubbish by official rubbish collectors.. this is close to houses and the canal... the smell, flies, rats will be appalling when the warmer days are here.. 

Why would anyone dump here, why would people allow it..


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## Buffy7

MaidenScotland said:


> I am just back from Shabramant and found to my disgust/horror that the huge area underneath the Monieb bridge is being filled in with household rubbish by official rubbish collectors.. this is close to houses and the canal... the smell, flies, rats will be appalling when the warmer days are here..
> 
> Why would anyone dump here, why would people allow it..


I detest seeing areas with large amounts of litter..I know it's useless but I try and "clean up" a bit when I take my dog out and find fast-food bags and all this garbage lying around, it's not so hard to toss it in a bin or a bag! I put a plastic garbage can outside of our building and am pleased to report people have stopped ditching paper/food waste around this area..I've noticed a distinct lack of public bins on the streets.
Are there any volunteer clean-up crews or something like that in Egypt? I know when the revolution died down the first time a bunch of Egyptians cleaned up the refuse and damage from the streets. Hopefully other people will be as irritated as you are and form another clean up crew!


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## MaidenScotland

Buffy7 said:


> I detest seeing areas with large amounts of litter..I know it's useless but I try and "clean up" a bit when I take my dog out and find fast-food bags and all this garbage lying around, it's not so hard to toss it in a bin or a bag! I put a plastic garbage can outside of our building and am pleased to report people have stopped ditching paper/food waste around this area..I've noticed a distinct lack of public bins on the streets.
> Are there any volunteer clean-up crews or something like that in Egypt? I know when the revolution died down the first time a bunch of Egyptians cleaned up the refuse and damage from the streets. Hopefully other people will be as irritated as you are and form another clean up crew!




I was more concerned about the health aspect, this is very close to homes and the canal although it does annoy me the amount of rubbish laying around. I once proposed a tax on plastic bags and fast food cartons, that would raise enough revue to clean the place up,


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes of course we find many fine aspects about living here, although Pat says I live in a bubble. I do have Egyptian friends that I socialise with but on the whole I do not go to Egyptian "style" venues. mainly because I do not like the fact I cannot get away from cigarette smoke or music that is just about bursting my eardrums.
> 
> 
> One thing I do find hard to understand..
> 
> I am just back from Shabramant and found to my disgust/horror that the huge area underneath the Monieb bridge is being filled in with household rubbish by official rubbish collectors.. this is close to houses and the canal... the smell, flies, rats will be appalling when the warmer days are here..
> 
> Why would anyone dump here, why would people allow it..


 
Can't comment about Cairo but i do know that many of the Bowabs that you pay to remove your rubbish in Hurghada just take it away from your building and dump it....i put a rubbish bin outside of the walls of my house in Hurghada but couldn't get my rubbish in for the amount of rubbish the egyptians had put in it...now Hurghada is a tourist city but go one street behind the main town Sekalla and it is full of rubbish...many times i have had to dodge stuff being thrown from a balcony.Also i may add that where i lived rubbish was collected on a daily basis but only if it was outside your building in bags...so why take it and throw it...beyond my comprehension.


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## hurghadapat

DeadGuy said:


> They're not police.........:ranger:


Victim of Egyptian police torture says 'officers were helping me' - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


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## Sonrisa

hurghadapat said:


> Victim of Egyptian police torture says 'officers were helping me' - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


You see this is what I dont understand. You can clearly see in the video that poor guy being brutally beaten by police officers. The general egyptian population cannot possibly be that stupid


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## hurghadapat

Sonrisa said:


> You see this is what I dont understand. You can clearly see in the video that poor guy being brutally beaten by police officers. The general egyptian population cannot possibly be that stupid


But look at what DeadGuy said....so who or what do you believe at the end of the day.


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## aykalam

The man has today been transferred from the police hospital to a civilian state hospital, which has 'prompted' him to change his version of events and say yes he was viciously attacked by CSF, as per video.

"Hamada Saber, the man who was filmed being beaten by police outside the presidential palace, denied the statement he made to the prosecutor general, in which he said he was attacked by the protesters, and accused police of beating, stripping and dragging him, various media outlets reported Sunday."

http://www.egyptindependent.com/new...previous-testimony-accuses-police-beating-him


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## Sonrisa

i believe my eyes. I saw it live on tv when as it happened and it was horrifying. These were clearly police officers.


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> But look at what DeadGuy said....so who or what do you believe at the end of the day.


It's not really a matter of believing when TV channels broadcast live a man being abused and dragged around by guys in riot police uniform next to their armored vehicle. Even the government realised they couldn't deny it and issued an official apology


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## DeadGuy

hurghadapat said:


> Victim of Egyptian police torture says 'officers were helping me' - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


To make it easier for you folks............Look for the new provider for both police and army uniforms...........And look back at the first time riots erupted near the palace.......

It *IS* much worse than what anyone thinks.........


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## Sonrisa

jeez, what now. ...


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> The man has today been transferred from the police hospital to a civilian state hospital, which has 'prompted' him to change his version of events and say yes he was viciously attacked by CSF, as per video.
> 
> "Hamada Saber, the man who was filmed being beaten by police outside the presidential palace, denied the statement he made to the prosecutor general, in which he said he was attacked by the protesters, and accused police of beating, stripping and dragging him, various media outlets reported Sunday."
> 
> Dragged man retracts previous testimony, accuses police of beating him | Egypt Independent


The man comes from the same generation that blames rape victims for being raped, and it’s probably much worse for him, as an Egyptian male living in a poor area with bizarre definitions of the word “Honour”, add having daughters to the equation, add being too poor to afford anything more than a ROOM to live in, not even a single room apartment, just A room, also add the fact that the similar incidents that happened before ended with no one but the victim being subjected to all kind of criticism, without any real justice of any kind, then you’ll understand why this poor guy is so scared and embarrassed of admitting what actually happened to him, also add the new job he’s offered and the steady income, and the fact that he’d never “win” if he didn’t take this deal..........

I don’t blame the poor man, simply cause I do know for a fact that he does not know any better, and what happened to him probably scared the living sh!t out of him, mind you what happened when the VIPs started "visiting" him in his room after wards.............

It’s the system that provides such a shameful cover for a horrible incident like this one’s fault.............


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## DeadGuy

Sonrisa said:


> jeez, what now. ...


Well, nothing? Now it's a good time to just hope for the best.......:juggle:


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## Sonrisa

are you suggesting that this was someone else (read military) dressed and acting as CSF, possibly hoping that current regime will lose all credibility. Cant be that twisted.


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> The man comes from the same generation that blames rape victims for being raped, and it’s probably much worse for him, as an Egyptian male living in a poor area with bizarre definitions of the word “Honour”, add having daughters to the equation, add being too poor to afford anything more than a ROOM to live in, not even a single room apartment, just A room, also add the fact that the similar incidents that happened before ended with no one but the victim being subjected to all kind of criticism, without any real justice of any kind, then you’ll understand why this poor guy is so scared and embarrassed of admitting what actually happened to him, also add the new job he’s offered and the steady income, and the fact that he’d never “win” if he didn’t take this deal..........
> 
> I don’t blame the poor man, simply cause I do know for a fact that he does not know any better, and what happened to him probably scared the living sh!t out of him, mind you what happened when the VIPs started "visiting" him in his room after wards.............
> 
> It’s the system that provides such a shameful cover for a horrible incident like this one’s fault.............


I understand he must have been scared to death, specially since he was taken to the police hospital and wasn't initially aware the whole thing had been videoed. But he's now telling people that yes, it did happen


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## aykalam

Sonrisa said:


> are you suggesting that this was someone else (read military) dressed and acting as CSF, possibly hoping that current regime will lose all credibility. Cant be that twisted.


what credibility?  

Anyhow, too many conspiracy theories for my liking, it seems to be the national pastime of choice. I don't think the army would need to intervene to demonstrate how utterly incompetent and vicious CSF are. This incident was broadcast live, but it's certainly not the first time that protesters get abused and beaten up by them.


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