# Full time contractor or casual



## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi Guys,

If someone is a full time contractor, does the payroll slips being marked as casual employment normal?


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi amitnm, 

if you are working full-time for them you should check whether you should be paid as an employee and not a contractor. Do you have an _Australian Business Number_ (ABN) and issue bills to the company? If yes, you are a contractor, if no (= you receive pay slips) you are an employee. Companies prefer to pay people as contractors because then you have to take care of tax, which might considerably reduce a seemingly generous hourly rate. More information: 

Promoting a level playing field for business (ATO)

If you receive pay slips and there are PAYG and super deductions on the pay slips, you are in an employee relationship. As a _casual_ employee you are paid on an hourly basis. The hourly rate is usually higher than a "normal" employee's hourly rate. The downside of a casual contract is that you don't get paid sick or annual leave, that the hours may be irregular and that your working relationship can be terminated without notice. More information: 

Casual employees - Fair Work Ombudsman

If your pay slips say "casual" although you think you are a "permanent" staff member, check your work contract and talk to your supervisor.


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi Espresso,

Thank you for your email.

Actually I am asking this for my acs, will acs approve my work experience as a casual employee who has above 20 hours each week, working in my field for immigration purposes under the graduate assessment scheme?

Please reply I am very scared


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Oh, that's completely different. You can relax, casual employment is ok, provided that you can demonstrate that you *worked 20+hrs in every week*, that your work is at a sufficiently skilled level and that you were paid (= ACS does not care about that, but DIBP does). The important thing is that work weeks during which you worked less than 20hrs will not be counted. 

When I started working I was on a 18hr/week contract for 3 months until our funding came through. These three months were not counted by ACS and DIBP. Make sure you submit a detailed breakdown of your work hours with your reference letters and you should be fine, though.


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi espresso,

You mentioned that DIBP will cares.

What do you mean? Does DIBP care of the applicant is casual or not?

Ill be finishing up a year of work experience after graduating in November. After that, I will be lodging my assessment with ACS, upon receiving a positive outcome, I will be applying for my PR.

I await your valuable reply.


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

espresso said:


> Oh, that's completely different. You can relax, casual employment is ok, provided that you can demonstrate that you *worked 20+hrs in every week*, that your work is at a sufficiently skilled level and that you were paid (= ACS does not care about that, but DIBP does). The important thing is that work weeks during which you worked less than 20hrs will not be counted.
> 
> When I started working I was on a 18hr/week contract for 3 months until our funding came through. These three months were not counted by ACS and DIBP. Make sure you submit a detailed breakdown of your work hours with your reference letters and you should be fine, though.


Also, do you have a PR?

What documents did you submit to DIBP particularly to prove your work experience?

The payslips and the tax returns will do fine?


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

No, DIPB cares about *payment*, ACS does not. You can submit voluntary work to ACS as well. DIBP will only give you points for 20hrs/week, paid employment after the ACS "skilled" date that will be printed on your result letter. If you don't plan to claim work experience points or apply for a visa that is not points-tested, you don't have to worry about that.

Edited to add: 


> I'll be finishing up a year of work experience after graduating in November. After that, I will be lodging my assessment with ACS, upon receiving a positive outcome, I will be applying for my PR.


In your case ACS will probably deduct one year of work experience, so you won't be able to claim work experience points. In that case, you don't have to submit pay slips or tax return documents to DIBP when you apply for PR. You only need to provide the same documents (reference letters etc.) that you submitted to ACS for cross-checking. 

And yes, we received our PR (189 visa) 1.5 years ago. I applied as "Software Engineer".


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Also, the reason for the whole "Full time contractor" is that my friend applied for his ACS, and in the letter he was given as "Full time contractor" but he is not a contractor, as he does not get paid through ABN, but rather TFN. Moreover, his payslips are marked as casual.

He however, got his ACS proved, and will be applying for 189 skilled visa soon. I think he may huge problems because of the conflicting letter and the payslips.

Espresso, just to confirm, both ACS and DIBP accepts casual employment that is above 20 hours a week, paid, and in your field, correct? (Sorry if I am being a pest, I just want my transaction to be smooth as possible)


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

espresso said:


> In your case ACS will probably deduct one year of work experience, so you won't be able to claim work experience points. In that case, you don't have to submit pay slips or tax return documents to DIBP when you apply for PR. You only need to provide the same documents (reference letters etc.) that you submitted to ACS for cross-checking.


I will be applying for Graduate Skill Assessment, as I have completed my masters in Australia here and will be applying for 1 year experience after my graduation. Will it be still counted. 

Please do not scare me.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

*Question 1: *First, regarding your friend: "Contractor" is misleading because it is usually used to mark a self-employed person. As a self-employed applicant you have to submit different evidence to ACS than as a normal employee (see ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines on page 15). But if he has payslips, it should be fine. "Casual" employment is accepted as long as he can prove that he worked 20+hrs/week. 

*Question 2:* Refer to the ACS Summary of Criteria and Understanding the ACS Result Letter 2014. ACS will only consider you skilled after graduation from an Australian bachelor (or higher) plus one year of relevant work experience. You will "lose" this year and won't be able to claim any points for it. Exception: If you were skilled before you came to Australia (e.g. you already had an *overseas bachelor degree* and *2+ years of work experience*), you may be able to claim points for your Australian work experience. If it's the only work experience you have, you are out of luck.


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

espresso said:


> *Question 1: *First, regarding your friend: "Contractor" is misleading because it is usually used to mark a self-employed person. As a self-employed applicant you have to submit different evidence to ACS than as a normal employee (see ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines on page 15). But if he has payslips, it should be fine. "Casual" employment is accepted as long as he can prove that he worked 20+hrs/week.
> 
> *Question 2:* Refer to the ACS Summary of Criteria and Understanding the ACS Result Letter 2014. ACS will only consider you skilled after graduation from an Australian bachelor (or higher) plus one year of relevant work experience. You will "lose" this year and won't be able to claim any points for it. Exception: If you were skilled before you came to Australia (e.g. you already had an *overseas bachelor degree* and *2+ years of work experience*), you may be able to claim points for your Australian work experience. If it's the only work experience you have, you are out of luck.


Hi espesso,

I have done my Masters of IT here at Swinburne and completed it in November 2013. In terms of my work experience in my field that, where November this year will mark one year, can't I claim work experience from that? 

I was told by a migration agent that I can...I am wo confused


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Write down your whole education and work history (degree/employer-country-from-to) for me, anonymised if you want (e.g. "employer 1", "employer 2"), and I'm sure we can figure it out together.


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Bachelors in Management Information Systems from St. Georges University, Grenada from 2006 till 2011

Masters of Information Technology from Swinburne, Melbourne from 2012 till 2013 (Grad nov 3014)

Employment:

Business process developer - from 2013 feb till 2014 feb - richmond Melbourne

Marketing and stratgeic business coordinator from 2014 feb till date, same employer as above


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi amitnm1991, 

are your roles (Business process developer, Marketing and strategic business coordinator) at the current employer even ICT related? If you want positive assessment from ACS you need a year of relevant IT experience for which you cannot claim points. You cannot get positive skills assessment from ACS without a year of ICT work experience. 

If you get assessed for a management occupation (based on your bachelor and work experience) instead, you may be able to claim points for you Australian work experience. But I'm not as familiar with the rules for management occupations - each assessing authority has its own rules.

What ANZSCO code did the consultant recommend for assessment?


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

The roles and responsibilities are closely related to what ACS has a description for an ICT Ba.

I called acs to findout whether title has a partto play to determine the outcome of a positive assessment, they told me its just the roles and responsibilities. 

Will I be able to claim points?


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Ok, that clarifies it for me:

If you apply for assessment as _ICT Business Analyst_ via the _Post Australian Study Skills Assessment_ stream, you will indeed be able to claim points for the Australian experience. Sorry for the confusion . To quote from the ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines on page 3: 



> The *skill level requirement date* for the Post Australian Study Skills Assessment will be noted as the *completion date of the relevant Australian degree*. _Suitable employment completed after the completion date of the relevant Australian degree will be eligible for points under the skilled migration points test_.


It does not work that way for "general" skills assessment, so I got turned around . Your agent/consultant informed you correctly!


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Espresso!

You nearly gave me a heart attack! Phew!


Just a few things to clarify

So me being casual will still work with acs and immi, granted that the work is in my field and the hours are above 20 hours, correct?

Also the title has no input for a positive assessment, correct?

I was also told that if acs were to give you a positive response, most likely immi will also grant me points due to the acs outcome letter, is this true?


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

> So me being casual will still work with acs and immi, granted that the work is in my field and the hours are above 20 hours, correct?
> 
> Also the title has no input for a positive assessment, correct?


Yes, both correct . DIBP generally follows the ACS decision as long as you have _pay slips or tax return documents_ in addition to the reference letter you submitted to ACS.


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## amitnm1991 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi Espresso,

Thank you so much for all your help.

I had posted about my luck with the HR department here, and they have given me a chance to review my reference letter prior being printed and signed from someone of higher authority in the company. 

I thought, if you can let me know what do you think about it prior being printed and signed 

His duties as a Marketing and Business Strategic Coordinator at this time include:

•	Identifying, evaluating and documentation of inefficiencies across various organisational departments and recommending and implementing optimal business practises and processes, to eliminating silos across departments
•	Responsible for creating end user system training documentation and providing training sessions 
•	Responsible for formulating business requirements and coordinating with team members to deploy solutions across departments and performing various implementation and integration test scenarios
•	Preparing marketing reports by retrieving, analysing, documenting and summarising sales data
•	Handling of corporate and home customer escalations including, frauds, disputes and reconciliation 
•	Accountability of project planning using a broad project coordinating tools, and responsible for task allocation 
•	Coordinating with operations manager to develop cost-benefit analysis and calculate return on investment
•	Acting as a secondary source to provide guidance and assistance with project managing
•	Responsible for analysing competitors market presence and providing marketing strategies to gain market presence by planning campaigns targeting corporate clients and casual customers





His duties as a Business Process Developer included: 

•	Identify and recording of basic inefficiencies within departments and to record redundancies present in the ecommerce infrastructure and coordinating with developers and vendors to eliminate these inefficiencies to harness an improved business process
•	Assisting operations manager in preparation of requirements analysis
•	Coordinating with operations manager to develop user documentation for training purposes
•	Coordinating with operational manager to develop organisation’s intranet and responsible for ongoing maintenance 
•	Modelling of processes to illustrate “to be” for system requirement evaluation
•	Coordinating required stakeholders to perform system acquisition with multiple vendors
•	Developing clear and concise weekly, monthly project status reports detailing project status and technical issues
Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me

Yours Sincerely,


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## kunal.libra (Jul 19, 2017)

espresso said:


> No, DIPB cares about *payment*, ACS does not. You can submit voluntary work to ACS as well. DIBP will only give you points for 20hrs/week, paid employment after the ACS "skilled" date that will be printed on your result letter. If you don't plan to claim work experience points or apply for a visa that is not points-tested, you don't have to worry about that.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> ...



Hi espresso,

I am new to this thread.


I have a question and cant get exact answer. 

I applied for ACS this year in May and got my assessment Positive. I also claimed 5 points for Aus Exp. During the time of assessment, I requested my boss to provide a ref letter, latest payslips and latest bank statement. ACS verified and came back as positive. 

Next, I applied for 190 (VIC) and I submitted same documents what I submitted for ACS. VIC guys rang my company and spoke with my boss and verified the details. After successfully verifying it, they immediately invited me for the lodgement. 

In August this year, after getting my invite, I lodged the application and 2 week later I got the first CO contact requesting for additional documents. As I was claiming points for my Aus Work Exp, they requested me to provide supporting documents for the company I work for in Melbourne. I then submitted my PAYG, Appointment letter, reference letter, latest payslips and latest bank statement. The reference letter and Appointment letter shows my start date (4 April 2016) till current. 

Now, on 5 Dec, I again got the second contact from the DIPB, requesting for additional documents. They need evidence of employment prior to my invitation date for the claims. Asking me to provide payslips or bank statements for 2016 only. 

The main question here is, when I started working this company in Aus, I was on trial period for 1st three months and I was paid on my ABN and cash in hand. I have got a new reference letter from my boss on his letterhead and signed, stating that I have worked with them from April 2016. I was on probation. During this period they were paying me cash as I was on my ABN. After successfully completing my probation, i was then confirmed on TFN. 

If I have worked on ABN, then can I provide this ref letter, Invoices that i generated to them ( from april 2016 to July 2016) and after my probation when i started getting my salary in my bank account -the bank statements, is that ok? 

Please advice on this please. 


Regards,


Kunal


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## Simran_1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Hi,

I was a contractual employee of Company Z and any payroll was outsourced to Company X.. So all the documents that i have are of Company X like appointment letter, payslips, experience letter and resignation letter. Can someone please tell me from whom should i take the experience letter which has my R&R ?


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## auspr17 (May 6, 2017)

Simran_1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was a contractual employee of Company Z and any payroll was outsourced to Company X.. So all the documents that i have are of Company X like appointment letter, payslips, experience letter and resignation letter. Can someone please tell me from whom should i take the experience letter which has my R&R ?


In your case it has to be client which is company Z so get a RNR from company Z with start and end dates number of hours you work and designation location along with roles and responsibilities.

Experts correct me if i am wrong... all the best


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