# Leon?



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

There's a great website called "Crazy Man on a Bike" where cyclists post pictures and details of their long distance tours. Looked at one guy's tour of central Mexico last night where he gave his impressions and photos of the many cities and towns he passed through earlier this year. He said that Leon had many excellent bike paths throughout the city and was noted as one of the best cities in Latin America for biking. He backed that up with pictures that would make American cyclists drool. Looked like separate roads just for bikes, away from car traffic. So I'm wondering about the quality of life there. Found a post from early this year here that suggests Leon is very affordable. But would you want to live there?


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Well, it is true that Leon has lots of bike paths (doubt they would make too many real American cyclists drool) and probably is a leader in this area in Central America. Most are in the middle of very busy streets, not in a park-like environ. Living can be very reasonable, as maybe the gringos here can be counted on one hand(me included). Sam's, WalMart, etc., etc., etc. are located here. The traffic can be terrible most of the day (about 2 million people). Very small Centro Historico, and just a dawg UGLY city, IMHO. Only reason I am here is the wife had 13 brothers and sisters and her dad here. Would I be here otherwise? No way!


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Never been to León. I do know that it's a great place to buy shoes!


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


coondawg said:



Well, it is true that Leon has lots of bike paths (doubt they would make too many real American cyclists drool) and probably is a leader in this area in Central America. Most are in the middle of very busy streets, not in a park-like environ. Living can be very reasonable, as maybe the gringos here can be counted on one hand(me included). Sam's, WalMart, etc., etc., etc. are located here. The traffic can be terrible most of the day (about 2 million people). Very small Centro Historico, and just a dawg UGLY city, IMHO. Only reason I am here is the wife had 13 brothers and sisters and her dad here. Would I be here otherwise? No way! 

Click to expand...

_Good post coondawg. 

I am surprised that Leon has a population of two million people. I had no idea it was that big. We live in "Lakeside" at Lake Chapala with some 60,000 people and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas with about 130,000 people and those towns are big enough for us with normally easily negotiable traffic although I would only ride a bike in San Cristóbal with a great deal of caution. 

Just yesterday, on one of my periodic visits to Guadalajara, a city with some 5,000,000 people, more or less, in residence, I was thanking my lucky stars that I did not live there even though it is an attractive city because the traffic can be horrendous. Old goobers such as I, do not need to waste the little time we have left sitting eternally in stalled traffic and breathing noxious automóbile and bus fumes.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Well, it is true that Leon has lots of bike paths (doubt they would make too many real American cyclists drool) and probably is a leader in this area in Central America.


I wasn't aware that Mexico was now in Central America - thanks for the heads up!


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> Good post coondawg.
> 
> I am surprised that Leon has a population of two million people. I had no idea it was that big. We live in "Lakeside" at Lake Chapala with some 60,000 people and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas with about 130,000 people and those towns are big enough for us with normally easily negotiable traffic although I would only ride a bike in San Cristóbal with a great deal of caution.
> 
> Just yesterday, on one of my periodic visits to Guadalajara, a city with some 5,000,000 people, more or less, in residence, I was thanking my lucky stars that I did not live there even though it is an attractive city because the traffic can be horrendous. Old goobers such as I, do not need to waste the little time we have left sitting eternally in stalled traffic and breathing noxious automóbile and bus fumes.


You need to ditch your car. In Guadalajara you can walk to everything one might need. Take the bus from Chapala and stretch your legs a bit.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Leon and Guadalajara are about the same size, in terms of population (1.5 million). The larger metropolitan area surrounding GDL brings the number up to 4.5 million however. I've enjoyed visits to Leon and its size and location, proximity to other places in Central Mexico ... and the nearby international airport ... makes it a place I'd consider retiring to one day. It's not at the top of my list, but if I wanted a manageable urban area (something less than the D.F.) it would do. My assumption might change after living there (or anyplace else) for a year or two, however. For whatever reason, I've not been able to think GDL would be a place I'd want to live. Can't put my finger on the exact reasons, but if I wanted a larger metropolitan area I'd just choose the D.F.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Wikipedia says Leon is the 5th largest city in Mexico. I read a post here from February where someone was renting in Leon a 3 bedroom, 3 bath home with yard, gated security with 24 hr guard, for $375 a month. All other tenants were Mexican citizens. Leon has it's own international airport for direct flights to the U.S.. I guess all those bike paths don't mean much if the city isn't very attractive. That cyclist really enjoyed the ease with which he got around. He greatly enjoyed Zacatecas and San Luis Potosí too for different reasons. He extended his stay in SLP because of it's centro. I noticed on Numbeo that apartment rents in the center of SLP were much higher on average than in Leon's center.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

vantexan said:


> He greatly enjoyed Zacatecas ............


There was a time when I've fly into Mexico on a 'red eye' flight on my way to Mexico City and the plane would stop in Zacatecas before continuing on to Mexico City. So, I had to clear Immigration/Customs there. I didn't stay-over, though. But a couple of years ago I included Zacatecas for a several day/week stay as I visited the D.F., Guadalajara, Aguascalientes and ... Zacaetacas. I fell in love with the city, extended my stay (deleting a stop in San Luis Potosi) and didn't want to leave. It's one of those places in Mexico where I can envision myself living long-term.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> You need to ditch your car. In Guadalajara you can walk to everything one might need. Take the bus from Chapala and stretch your legs a bit.


Good advice TG. However, since I can stretch my legs on solitary, wide beaches along the shores of Lake Chapala with my five mutts for kilometers daily between La Floresta and San Juan Cosala, only limited by my personal exuberance of the day and without ever even entering a bus or a car, I think I´ll forego that advice.

I might add that there are numerous bars, groceries and all other services required by this ancient gent within walking distance of my abode. 

Thanks anyway.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Hound Dog said:


> I might add that there are numerous bars, groceries and all other services required by this ancient gent within walking distance of my abode.
> 
> .


It's nice to see a fellow Southern Gentleman with his priorities in order.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

vantexan said:


> Wikipedia says Leon is the 5th largest city in Mexico. I read a post here from February where someone was renting in Leon a 3 bedroom, 3 bath home with yard, gated security with 24 hr guard, for $375 a month. All other tenants were Mexican citizens. Leon has it's own international airport for direct flights to the U.S.. I guess all those bike paths don't mean much if the city isn't very attractive. That cyclist really enjoyed the ease with which he got around. He greatly enjoyed Zacatecas and San Luis Potosí too for different reasons. He extended his stay in SLP because of it's centro. I noticed on Numbeo that apartment rents in the center of SLP were much higher on average than in Leon's center.


My wife, born and reared here in Leon, says that the Infonavit houses can possibly be rented for that amount, and some are almost new. Rather small and poorly constructed, but decent for 5-7 years before major problems and the neighborhood deteriorates. There are a few nice things in Leon, but if I had my choice, I would live in the capital city, Guanajuato, about 40 minutes from Leon. The airport is in Silao, about 20 minutes outside Leon, and is a good airport. 

BTW, As IV pointed out, Leon is the Leather Capital of Mexico: shoes, purses, jackets, etc. And, Leon has more bike paths than any country in Central America. 

I remember reading in a travel book in 1998 that the state of Guanajuato is home to the most beautiful city in all of Mexico, and the ugliest city in all of Mexico. Guanajuato is very pretty. The locals kinda tolerate/ignore the expats, as they are not impressed very much by people from other countries and their economy does not depend on expats, like Lakeside has in the past. Maybe 300 expats live in Guanajuato, most just go about their own business.

Leon has LOTS of graffiti, but there has been improvement over the last few years. About 6 years ago, when we were building our home, we rented a 2/1.5 new infonavit house in a gated community for $100 a month, for 8 months (unfurnished). It was a 2 story cracker box, but was adequate. Now, that area and house is junk. So go these types of cheap houses here. I wish I could tell you lots of great things about Leon, but it is a working man's city. Guanajuato is the cultural city oif the whoile state. But, it is only about an hour there from here on a cheap bus.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> The locals kinda tolerate/ignore the expats, as they are not impressed very much by people from other countries and their economy does not depend on expats, like Lakeside. More like Dolores Hidalgo, where expats are not looked on with favor. Maybe 300 expats live in Guanajuato, most just go about their own business.


Hmmm, I live in a pleasant middle-class barrio in Mexico City, where there are some expats (Koreans as well as gringos), but we just kind of blend in with the Mexicans who live here. I feel neither tolerated nor ignored, accepted as just another _vecina_.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> Hmmm, I live in a pleasant middle-class barrio in Mexico City, where there are some expats (Koreans as well as gringos), but we just kind of blend in with the Mexicans who live here. I feel neither tolerated nor ignored, accepted as just another _vecina_.


Then that is a plus for the Chilangolandia.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> Hmmm, I live in a pleasant middle-class barrio in Mexico City, where there are some expats (Koreans as well as gringos), but we just kind of blend in with the Mexicans who live here. I feel neither tolerated nor ignored, accepted as just another _vecina_.


Koreans _are _ gringos although that Word "******" is a despicable racist word plus the Koreans have some of the best food on the planet which reminds me that the Korean grocery calling itself the Asian Market in Guiadalajara, perhaps the finest Korean (plus some Japanese) grocery in all of Mexico, has moved its store to a much nicer downtown área but still serves up the best Kimchi and other Korean food in Mexico.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> Isla Verde said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm, I live in a pleasant middle-class barrio in Mexico City, where there are some expats (Koreans as well as gringos), but we just kind of blend in with the Mexicans who live here. I feel neither tolerated nor ignored, accepted as just another vecina.
> ...


According to Wikipedia "****** is a term, mainly used in Spanish-speaking countries, to refer to an English-speaking foreigner, especially an American person. The term is often used in a disparaging sense, but in and of itself is not derogatory."

With that definition, Koreans would not be included.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Oops, it's actually "Crazy Guy on a Bike" in case someone looks for it. I did find a Guanajuato specific forum that's pretty active. Most of their comments about Leon concern the airport or shopping. One man new to Leon asked them about safety to which they assured him that Leon and Guanajuato State in general was very safe. 

My wife hurt her knees many years ago while in the Army and gets a small disability check plus VA coverage. A lot of the scenic towns that I go crazy for like Zacatecas, San Miguel, and Taxco are too extreme for her. I didn't find San Miguel to be that strenuous but it was for her. So I've given up on some hillside apartment with great views and stairs leading up to it. Our second floor apartment stairs were hurting her in San Miguel, not to mention she tripped on cobblestones which exacerbated her problems in her left knee for months. So the bike paths of Leon, local safety, nearby Guanajuato and other good places to visit, reasonable cost of living, decent climate, good airport are definitely making me want to check it out. I've already seen in pictures it has good shopping like Home Depot, etc. Leon was even the first Mexican city to adopt the BRT(Bus Rapid Transit) system, which makes the bus system much like a subway with dedicated bus lanes, the ability to change red lights, allowing passengers to walk right off onto same height platforms at "stations." Obviously Leon isn't on the radar of those seeking a beautiful spot but I at least like what I'm reading!


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;4560826]According to Wikipedia "****** is a term, mainly used in Spanish-speaking countries, to refer to an English-speaking foreigner, especially an American person. The term is often used in a disparaging sense, but in and of itself is not derogatory."

With that definition, Koreans would not be included.[/QUOTE]_

Nonsense. The racist, dismissive and always disparaging word "******" is used to disdain and belittle strangers no matter their language, skin color or exotic characteristics. I grew up in a very openly racist culture and know the way words can be used to designate people as unworthy of true inclusión in the local preferred community. When I hear white foreigners living in Mexico refer to themselves as "Gringos", it makes my skin crawl and reminds me of compliant and self-defacing African Americans in my home state of Alabama in the 1950s referring to themselves as "us colored folks". 

By the way, in Chiapas, unlike Jalisco, the word "******" is considered a deep affront and would never be used frivolously face to face with a foreigner unless meant to be an insulting expletive. I have lived in Chiapas for eight years and have never heard the word used by anyone,

Never underestimate the insidious nature of offensive language-


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> TundraGreen said:
> 
> 
> > According to Wikipedia "****** is a term, mainly used in Spanish-speaking countries, to refer to an English-speaking foreigner, especially an American person. The term is often used in a disparaging sense, but in and of itself is not derogatory."
> ...


Except for the disagreement about whether it includes non-US people I agree with you about the use of the G-word. I have only been called that a few times by Mexicans and it was clearly not friendly. Once it was in a group and the guy was talking about me to a third party. However, many people from the US seem to use it to refer to members of their group as you point out. I don't like it either.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Hound Dog said:


> [_
> it makes my skin crawl and reminds me of compliant and self-defacing African Americans in my home state of Alabama in the 1950s referring to themselves as "us colored folks".
> Never underestimate the insidious nature of offensive language-_


_

With your childhood experience, any comment when the US President uses the phrase "folks, we gotta get past this and move on. " What is he referring to by "folks"? He uses "folks" a lot._


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

vantexan said:


> One man new to Leon asked them about safety to which they assured him that Leon and Guanajuato State in general was very safe.


***As safe as any large city in Mexico, or anywhere else. Guanajuato is having a problem with numerous assaults in alleys and areas that people should not wander alone. We keep a low profile, and dress very plain, and are very careful to never open our door unless we have invited the person over.



> My wife hurt her knees many years ago while in the Army and gets a small disability check plus VA coverage.


*** I very sorry to hear that. I was in a walking cast for 6 months and can relate to her feelings. Leon is basically flat. the public transportation is cheap, and the taxis can be negotiated reasonably, except on holidays, when the price goes to 150-200 pesos one way. Finding a taxi you like and always calling him, could save even more.



> So the bike paths of Leon, local safety, nearby Guanajuato and other good places to visit, reasonable cost of living, decent climate, good airport are definitely making me want to check it out. I've already seen in pictures it has good shopping like Home Depot, etc. Leon was even the first Mexican city to adopt the BRT(Bus Rapid Transit) system, which makes the bus system much like a subway with dedicated bus lanes, the ability to change red lights, allowing passengers to walk right off onto same height platforms at "stations." Obviously Leon isn't on the radar of those seeking a beautiful spot but I at least like what I'm reading!


*** THis is all true. Just a big city, with a few interesting things, such as a great public pool for "cheap " swim lessons, and LOTS of shopping. A really good base to Bus cheaply.to visit other towns.

***VanTexan, if you could give me an idea of a good day/week in your life(as you would be happy), maybe I could reference some other things about Leon.


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

vantexan said:


> Oops, it's actually "Crazy Guy on a Bike" in case someone looks for it. I did find a Guanajuato specific forum that's pretty active. Most of their comments about Leon concern the airport or shopping. One man new to Leon asked them about safety to which they assured him that Leon and Guanajuato State in general was very safe.
> 
> My wife hurt her knees many years ago while in the Army and gets a small disability check plus VA coverage. A lot of the scenic towns that I go crazy for like Zacatecas, San Miguel, and Taxco are too extreme for her. I didn't find San Miguel to be that strenuous but it was for her. So I've given up on some hillside apartment with great views and stairs leading up to it. Our second floor apartment stairs were hurting her in San Miguel, not to mention she tripped on cobblestones which exacerbated her problems in her left knee for months. So the bike paths of Leon, local safety, nearby Guanajuato and other good places to visit, reasonable cost of living, decent climate, good airport are definitely making me want to check it out. I've already seen in pictures it has good shopping like Home Depot, etc. Leon was even the first Mexican city to adopt the BRT(Bus Rapid Transit) system, which makes the bus system much like a subway with dedicated bus lanes, the ability to change red lights, allowing passengers to walk right off onto same height platforms at "stations." Obviously Leon isn't on the radar of those seeking a beautiful spot but I at least like what I'm reading!


Vantexan, I know this thread is about Leon, but I recall on a different thread you mentioned Puebla as a possibility for you and your wife. My stepson lives in Puebla, so I've spent some time there - although certainly not enough to be an expert on it! I really liked the city, and think it would be a nice place to live. Weather wise, we were there in Dec/Jan, and it does get quite chilly overnight in the winter months, even down to freezing point. We had a little space heater going overnight, so we wouldn't be so chilly in the mornings. It warmed up comfortably in the day, though. 

Puebla is quite flat, so walking should not be a problem for your wife. It's streets are fairly wide in general, laid out on a NSEW grid (Norte Sur Oriente Poniente) making it pretty easy to navigate. There are some diagonals that kept throwing me off, though! We were renovating the washroom/bathroom at my stepson's place, and I was the "gofer", so I drove quite a lot around the city to various stores and building supply places. But even the couple of times I temporarily got "lost", it was easy to find my way back with the grid street system. My stepson likes to say you can't stay lost in Puebla.

As a major city, it has all the amenities and cultural offerings. It has a beautiful Centro Histórico, many cultural events, great food, and shopping, including the NOB bigbox stores. In addition to its world famous cuisine, it also has exquisite _talavera_ ceramics and tiles. 

As far as I could tell and from what my stepson and other Poblanos report, Puebla is quite safe. We were in the main Zócalo in the historic centre - even at midnight the zócalo was still full - there were young people, couples and entire families from babes in arms to grandparents. For entertainment there were jugglers, musicians, street theatre, vendors, etc. It was lively and lovely!

It does have an airport, although I believe the only international destination is Houston. It probably would be more economical to fly into DF, and take one of the round the clock buses that depart from inside the airport. They are easy, comfortable, and safe. Currently the cost is about $260 (pesos) Mexico City Airport to Puebla. If I am remembering correctly, it's about a 2 hr trip _más o menos_. You can see the schedule on the website of the Aeropuerto Internacional de la Ciudad de México - Transportation - Buses. 

I can tell you are really trying to find a place that will meet both your and your wife's needs. I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

coondawg said:


> ***As safe as any large city in Mexico, or anywhere else. Guanajuato is having a problem with numerous assaults in alleys and areas that people should not wander alone. We keep a low profile, and dress very plain, and are very careful to never open our door unless we have invited the person over.
> 
> 
> *** I very sorry to hear that. I was in a walking cast for 6 months and can relate to her feelings. Leon is basically flat. the public transportation is cheap, and the taxis can be negotiated reasonably, except on holidays, when the price goes to 150-200 pesos one way. Finding a taxi you like and always calling him, could save even more.
> ...


We're moving this weekend, took a remote job in AZ in order to get back on with my previous employer. Feel free to send me any info about Leon, and it's greatly appreciated. I'll be working at least 3 years before coming down. Thanks!


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> Vantexan, I know this thread is about Leon, but I recall on a different thread you mentioned Puebla as a possibility for you and your wife. My stepson lives in Puebla, so I've spent some time there - although certainly not enough to be an expert on it! I really liked the city, and think it would be a nice place to live. Weather wise, we were there in Dec/Jan, and it does get quite chilly overnight in the winter months, even down to freezing point. We had a little space heater going overnight, so we wouldn't be so chilly in the mornings. It warmed up comfortably in the day, though.
> 
> Puebla is quite flat, so walking should not be a problem for your wife. It's streets are fairly wide in general, laid out on a NSEW grid (Norte Sur Oriente Poniente) making it pretty easy to navigate. There are some diagonals that kept throwing me off, though! We were renovating the washroom/bathroom at my stepson's place, and I was the "gofer", so I drove quite a lot around the city to various stores and building supply places. But even the couple of times I temporarily got "lost", it was easy to find my way back with the grid street system. My stepson likes to say you can't stay lost in Puebla.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this very good info. I've read very good things about Puebla and it's an example of too many good choices in Mexico. I'm kind of sold on Leon, but ultimately it'll be my wife's choice so we'll look at several cities before deciding.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Thanks for this very good info. I've read very good things about Puebla and it's an example of too many good choices in Mexico. I'm kind of sold on Leon, but ultimately it'll be my wife's choice so we'll look at several cities before deciding.


I've visited Puebla many times and found it an attractive city bursting at the seams with Mexican history and culture, not to mention delicious food. I have the feeling that after spending time in León and Puebla, you'll opt for the latter.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I've visited Puebla many times and found it an attractive city bursting at the seams with Mexican history and culture, not to mention delicious food. I have the feeling that after spending time in León and Puebla, you'll opt for the latter.


The problem is my wife only wants to live in Mexico long enough to pay off her house mortgage. I'm sure she'd prefer Puebla, but we'll be living on Social Security while I pay off the mortgage with my pension. So I'm looking at affordable alternatives. There are a lot of Mexican cities that never get mentioned here or on other forums and I suspect it's due to pretty mundane circumstances that Americans and others wouldn't find appealing. I see in Leon a city that's trying hard to improve the lives of it's citizens with some very progressive ideas. It's not just the usual good bus system or taking cabs, but a chance to get out and enjoy a bike ride without risking your neck. That cyclist I mentioned stayed at the home of a family that participated in a 10k fun run the next day with 3000 runners. I like their attitude!


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> The problem is my wife only wants to live in Mexico long enough to pay off her house mortgage. I'm sure she'd prefer Puebla, but we'll be living on Social Security while I pay off the mortgage with my pension. So I'm looking at affordable alternatives. There are a lot of Mexican cities that never get mentioned here or on other forums and I suspect it's due to pretty mundane circumstances that Americans and others wouldn't find appealing. I see in Leon a city that's trying hard to improve the lives of it's citizens with some very progressive ideas. It's not just the usual good bus system or taking cabs, but a chance to get out and enjoy a bike ride without risking your neck. That cyclist I mentioned stayed at the home of a family that participated in a 10k fun run the next day with 3000 runners. I like their attitude!


Well, you won't know what León is like till you've spent some time there. Relying on a cyclist's blog for information is not a great way of having an idea of what it's like to live there. Puebla could turn out to be as affordable as León - you won't know till you've done more research.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Well, you won't know what León is like till you've spent some time there. Relying on a cyclist's blog for information is not a great way of having an idea of what it's like to live there. Puebla could turn out to be as affordable as León - you won't know till you've done more research.


Actually have done quite a bit of research on Puebla. It's a great city but a bit pricey. The cyclist's blog was just a good bit of info on not only Leon but numerous other cities in central Mexico. He really liked San Luis Potosí. I noticed on Numbeo that SLP's centro's average rent is twice that of Leon. From a cyclist's perspective he hated Guadalajara. Rude drivers who constantly cut him off and made for a nerve wracking experience. He was dreading riding into Leon but found extremely courteous drivers and bike paths all over the city. He loved cities like Zacatecas and San Miguel for all the obvious reasons but enjoyed the friendliness of Leon. Leon doesn't appear to be involved in the drug wars so definitely worth looking into.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

inland Mexico is such that you can find a reasonably price place in any city it all depends on your priorities. Frankly picking an ugly city because it has bike lanes or has an airport sounds a little strange to me. Maybe your wife should be doing the research or tell you her priorities.,
If she does not speak Spanish she will feel lost on a city like Leon..just my 2 cents.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

vantexan said:


> the friendliness of Leon. Leon doesn't appear to be involved in the drug wars so definitely worth looking into.


I doubt there is a city in Mexico of any size that is not involved in the "drug war". With the cap put on reporting by this President, one never knows the truth about how many are being murdered, or where. (bad for tourist business to report the facts, and certainly bad for his image). The Zetas seem to be getting more pressure in Veracruz and Tamaulipas, so the "cockroach effect" is happening: they are looking for a new home with less pressure, such as Leon. Check out this link by BB where the plaza boss was captured the other day in Leon, followed by several murders in the city.

Borderland Beat: Zetas: Victoria Plaza Chief Captured in Guanajuato


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> inland Mexico is such that you can find a reasonably price place in any city it all depends on your priorities. Frankly picking an ugly city because it has bike lanes or has an airport sounds a little strange to me. Maybe your wife should be doing the research or tell you her priorities.,
> If she does not speak Spanish she will feel lost on a city like Leon..just my 2 cents.


Unless, of course, biking is your passion in life which it is for some people. I can't imagine my son-in-law living somewhere where you couldn't bicycle everywhere you wanted to go.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Unless, of course, biking is your passion in life which it is for some people. I can't imagine my son-in-law living somewhere where you couldn't bicycle everywhere you wanted to go.


Would he choose a place to live primarily because it had a good system of bike paths with nothing much else to recommend it?


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Would he choose a place to live primarily because it had a good system of bike paths with nothing much else to recommend it?


Y'all are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. In a nutshell my wife despises Mexico. Simple as that. But she can see the merit of living there or elsewhere if the affordability allows us to pay off the mortgage with my pension while we live on Social Securiry. She DOES like to shop, and Leon not only has just about all the American big box stores, but is the leather goods and shoes capital of Mexico. There are literally hundreds of little shoe stores plus every kind of leather goods like belts, saddles, coats, etc at extremely affordable prices. She has bad knees and Leon is level. And biking is a favorite hobby of mine. There are literally hundreds of Mexican cities and towns that never get discussed here. I can certainly see the attraction of the favored areas, but we tried one of the most popular, and she couldn't stand it. She loves shopping for bargains, she loves familiar American restaurant chains, and she doesn't want to be there one iota longer than necessary. Leon should work for both of us.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

vantexan said:


> Y'all are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. Leon should work for both of us.


As one who lives in Leon, I believe that it will work for you for a while, hopefully as long as you need it to do so. Leon is indeed a big city. I understand what you are looking for. If I can answer any more questions, just P.M. me. Good luck.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Would he choose a place to live primarily because it had a good system of bike paths with nothing much else to recommend it?


No, but he wouldn't live someplace where you needed a car. And given the paucity of bike paths in Mexico, bike paths might be the determining factor.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

vantexan said:


> Y'all are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. In a nutshell my wife despises Mexico. Simple as that. But she can see the merit of living there or elsewhere if the affordability allows us to pay off the mortgage with my pension while we live on Social Securiry. She DOES like to shop, and Leon not only has just about all the American big box stores, but is the leather goods and shoes capital of Mexico. There are literally hundreds of little shoe stores plus every kind of leather goods like belts, saddles, coats, etc at extremely affordable prices. She has bad knees and Leon is level. And biking is a favorite hobby of mine. There are literally hundreds of Mexican cities and towns that never get discussed here. I can certainly see the attraction of the favored areas, but we tried one of the most popular, and she couldn't stand it. She loves shopping for bargains, she loves familiar American restaurant chains, and she doesn't want to be there one iota longer than necessary. Leon should work for both of us.


You should have told us the leather shops appealed before. That wraps it up. No place compares to León for that. And the city of Guanajuato is just a short bus ride away if you want to get away once in a while.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes the city of Guanajuato is exacty what someone with bad knees need as well...Good luck in your search.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> You should of told us the leather shops appealed before. That wraps it up. No place compares to León for that. And the city of Guanajuato is just a short bus ride away if your want to get away once in a while.


You can't beat central Mexico for the many trips one can take for interesting places!


----------



## inflagrante (Jun 8, 2014)

I am currently living in Guanajuato, but I drove out to Leon yesterday to do some shopping. I agree that the city isn't very pretty, but I loved the energy. The bike paths seem to run between all of the major streets, and on a lot of them, there's a bit of a grassy area surrounding the bike path with walking paths closer to the street. I saw lots of families out walking together, even at 8pm, as well as horses grazing next to a fairly major street. As much as I like living in Guanajuato, I definitely felt tempted by Leon. If your wife doesn't particularly care for Mexico and wants a lot of the convenience of living in the states, she'll probably find it in Leon. I did notice a Chili's restaurant, and there are lots of NOB stores. I didn't tour through the whole city, but I'm sure that there are really nice neighborhoods. And as an American who doesn't speak a whole lot of Spanish, I've found the people in this area to be really gracious and accommodating. 

As for Guanajuato and its hills -- yes, it is hilly. But most of the center of town is fairly flat, so I think it would work out nicely for a day trip, even for someone who has bad knees.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

vantexan, have you thought of asking your wife to do the search for a place? Maybe that would give you an idea of what she will agreed to and what she will not consider. I am wondering why you insist on Mexico if she despises it. Just move to a cheap place in the US and forget Mexico.
There are places in Mexico (Moderator Note: US?) where you provably can live just as cheaply as in Mexico.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

citlali said:


> vantexan, have you thought of asking your wife to do the search for a place? Maybe that would give you an idea of what she will agreed to and what she will not consider. I am wondering why you insist on Mexico if she despises it. Just move to a cheap place in the US and forget Mexico.
> There are places in Mexico where you provably can live just as cheaply as in Mexico.


I think you meant the States in that last statement but I know what you mean. If there were truly places in the States where one can live just as cheaply as Mexico I suspect those places would be highly touted for their affordability. About the only way one can truly live cheaply in the States is own some land in a rural area with low taxes, grow your own food, stay healthy, maybe use a motorcycle for transportation. Rents on average in the States are higher, healthcare before qualifying for Medicare is ridiculous, and transport for most means having a car because good public transport is limited to a few cities. 

I've mentioned that we're only going to be there for a number of years, 6-7 at the most. My wife's house is in Overland Park, KS, where her two grown kids and her best friends are. Over the years I've noticed that most women lose interest very quickly when I told them about wanting to live overseas. Most women in my experience think right where they're at is the best place to live with friends and family close by. Not all, of course, but most. My wife told me before we got married that she very much wanted to live overseas, that she wanted to watch sports with me, whatever I wanted to do she was eager to try also. Hasn't been the case, LOL. As soon as we got married she backtracked on living in Mexico and complained the whole time we were there. To tell you the truth I had visions of spending time in Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, and Argentina before ultimately going to the Philippines to find a nice lady to marry if I was lucky. But my wife came along, and while it's true she wasn't exactly honest upfront she has been a wonderful companion and friend overall and I am willing to compromise and give her what she wants. But I want to be smart about it, getting her mortgage paid off to lessen the burden in our advanced years. So I get to somewhat fulfill my expat dreams a little, and to make it easier on her try to find a place that she'd enjoy too. She's a shopper, loves thrift stores. She's also a very picky eater. She actually loves Americanized Mexican food but thinks the real deal is too weird. I've been sharing everything I'm reading by the way and she likes what I've found about Leon. On the Skyscraper City forum there are good pictures that show the bike lanes, city parks, big box stores, etc. In San Miguel there were some good supermarkets, but shopping was very limited overall, requiring trips to Queretaro. She had a bad case of culture shock, and her opinion of Mexico was already badly formed from dating a Hispanic man in Kansas for about a year who treated her badly. 

I am truly surprised that there seems to be such a negative reaction to a place like Leon. Isla made the comment that there was nothing to recommend it except for bike paths. It's got a good climate, mountain scenery, it's safe, has excellent shopping and restaurants, has gone way beyond most Mexican cities in addressing transportation issues. Has a very large, attractive city park, a nice enough centro, an annual balloon fiesta, the Guanajuato state fair, it's affordable, and close enough to major Mexican attractions for easy trips. And an excellent airport. People recommend places like Puebla(expensive but very nice), Merida(supposed to be amazing but boiling hot), and Oaxaca(great zocalo and food but a long ways from anything else and fairly high rents due to popularity.). I like what I've found out about Leon, works for me and her, but would be happy to learn more about similar places. We could just fly Spirit to Nicaragua and live in Esteli on $700 a month. Would accomplish our goal to pay off the mortgage but Leon looks like paradise in comparison.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I am amazed that you are so.......well, never mind. She will shop while you pay off her mortgage.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Does she lie window shopping or buying? Because when you are in your sixties most people have just about everything they need so how much shopping can one do. 
So they are lots of leather things to buy in Leon and then once you have bought all the bags and shoes you need how many leather things do you want to look at. 
I love flee markets and I have not seen anything in Mexico that has me really excited when it comes to second hand things. Actually I find the old stuff quite expensive here so I would not come down from the States for that.
If she is a picky eater she is better off cooking. Let´s face it if she like American type restaurant chains she will find cheaper ones in the States. She does not strike me as a good candidate to live in Mexico.
Yes you can live cheaper here than in the States if you are willing to adapt otherwise you can live cheaper in a small town in the South or in the Midwest so maybe you should forget asking her to move to Mexico and just come down for some nice relaxed vacations and maybe the place will grown on her..


----------



## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Boy interesting "most women" theories. Not my experience as a woman or of "most" of the women I know. Hope you find what you are looking for.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Same here most of he people I know who live abroad and not just talk about it are women. As you say Terry it all dpends who you associate with.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

terrybahena said:


> Boy interesting "most women" theories. Not my experience as a woman or of "most" of the women I know. Hope you find what you are looking for.


If you've lived in Mexico quite some time I suspect you and your Anglo friends with common interests fall into the latter camp. But more than half of the population of the U.S. are women, and I'm betting a clear majority want to be near family and friends and the life they've built over time. Been my experience dating, as well as sharing my goals with family and friends and coworkers. Most think I'm out of my mind. But then I'm from the South, a subset culture.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

citlali said:


> Same here most of he people I know who live abroad and not just talk about it are women. As you say Terry it all dpends who you associate with.


Interesting dig Citlali. I'm 52, have tried living in Mexico already, now have to wait for income to kick in. A few years away, not just talk.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

citlali said:


> Does she lie window shopping or buying? Because when you are in your sixties most people have just about everything they need so how much shopping can one do.
> So they are lots of leather things to buy in Leon and then once you have bought all the bags and shoes you need how many leather things do you want to look at.
> I love flee markets and I have not seen anything in Mexico that has me really excited when it comes to second hand things. Actually I find the old stuff quite expensive here so I would not come down from the States for that.
> If she is a picky eater she is better off cooking. Let´s face it if she like American type restaurant chains she will find cheaper ones in the States. She does not strike me as a good candidate to live in Mexico.
> Yes you can live cheaper here than in the States if you are willing to adapt otherwise you can live cheaper in a small town in the South or in the Midwest so maybe you should forget asking her to move to Mexico and just come down for some nice relaxed vacations and maybe the place will grown on her..


Which is why I've stated repeatedly that we aren't going to live there permanently. Plus she'll go back for visits. But I have to disagree with you about living in the States. Groceries and gas are about the same wherever you go. Folks spend a lot of money on heat in the Midwest, serious money. They spend quite a bit on a/c in the South. Hard to get around in those towns without a car. Medical expense is greater. And if Mexico isn't 40-50% cheaper overall then we will go where it is.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> I am amazed that you are so.......well, never mind. She will shop while you pay off her mortgage.


Come on now give me a little credit. The house will be in my name too. I have a stent in an artery, high blood pressure, and diabetes. I may not make it to 70. I want to get her set up, including a survivor benefit on my pension that'll give her $1100 a month.


----------



## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

I've only been here 2 years. But I think maybe both men and women are happy to live near family, to be with friends...& I mean friendships forged as an adult thru work or neighborhood, of course, we are not lone creatures...For me the only thing I miss from the states is my 2 daughters. My brothers & sisters are spread far and wide....

I think maybe there are adventurers and those happy to stay put...and it goes for men & women. You sound like a nice guy, but in a bit of a struggle as an adventurer with a non. Leon will probly be just fine..maybe you could take a vacation there to check it out.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Reading all of the discussion, now and previously ... I'm of the opinion that the woman in question is never going to agree to move to Mexico. Either give up the dream of convincing her to do that, the obsession (it seems to me) or find another woman who truly shares your life's interests ... or one whose interests you can share. Otherwise? I see, in my crystal ball, a life ahead full of conflict in the house. Best wishes.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Agreed, Mwxico is a dream and you picked the wrong partner to mke it happen so be happy with your partner in the States, She wants to be in Kansas with HER friends and family so I am afraid that is where you will be. end of subject..change dream or change partner. Keep life simple .


----------



## inflagrante (Jun 8, 2014)

Wow, there are some seriously judgmental people on this board. My advice to vantexan would be to live his life the way he wants to live it and stop asking for advice from the people of this board.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

vantexan said:


> Come on now give me a little credit. The house will be in my name too. I have a stent in an artery, high blood pressure, and diabetes. I may not make it to 70. I want to get her set up, including a survivor benefit on my pension that'll give her $1100 a month.


I suspected as much, but could not resist making the comment just for the fun of it. I am a quarter century ahead of you and still trying to accomplish the same goal that you have set for yourself, with 8 stents and some other rather serious inconveniences. So, I do understand your situation, and we now have our home up for sale and are dreading the thought of having to move closer to a VA hospital, etc. Giving up living at Chapala will be hard to do, as we have been here for over 13 years. We have no ties to the USA any more and it seems a strange place from afar.
Good luck in your quest.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

inflagrante said:


> Wow, there are some seriously judgmental people on this board. My advice to vantexan would be to live his life the way he wants to live it and stop asking for advice from the people of this board.


For some months now, vantexan has been pouring his heart out to the members of this forum detailing the obstacles he's faced with balancing his long-held desire to move to Mexico and keeping his new marriage together. He's asked for our advice, and we've given it to him. Whether or not he takes to heart what we've said is certainly up to him. What you call being judgmental, I would call being honest with a very good man who has found himself in a very difficult situation.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


Isla Verde said:



For some months now, vantexan has been pouring his heart out to the members of this forum detailing the obstacles he's faced with balancing his long-held desire to move to Mexico and keeping his new marriage together. He's asked for our advice, and we've given it to him. Whether or not he takes to heart what we've said is certainly up to him. What you call being judgmental, I would call being honest with a very good man who has found himself in a very difficult situation.

Click to expand...

_Well, Vantexan, all I can say, in all due respect, is that it is improvident, in my judgment, to, when two people who value each other´s presence in a relationship, push too hard on the notion of where, if they live together, they should establish residence even temporarily (as in a few years - not months). If one partner acquiesces to the other out of a spirit of compromise or in an attempt to save a future, perhaps, fractured or fracturing relationship, then that place in which the partners are living in the future may become a bone of contention between them for no other reason than that one partner is displeased with the place of residence while the other is content there. This can drive people apart as you know.

Now, since this is the Mexico Expat Fórum, it is not surprising that I and some others posting here might choose to say this sort of thing but, if I may say, that may also explain the tone of some of the responses you have received to your inquiry. As places to live, Kansas vs. Mexico is a no brainer for me and that is why, after 13 years in Mexico I have become a Mexican citizen and intend to spend the rest of my life here if possible but I have relatives and friends back in my native Alabama who would think me touched-in-the-head for asserting that Mexico is better than the U.S. as a place to live full time. What the hell, if we all loved the same place it would be unbearably crowded there whether Kansas, Mexico or Bhutan. 

Good luck to you. Maybe Overland Park, Kansas isn´t such a bad place after all. Even Fresno, California has some beautiful trees and great Armenian food. Nothing else to recommend it, however.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Thanks for the advice everyone. Some I agree with, some not so much. But I'd like to get back to the original question of whether Leon is a worthwhile place to live. Forgot to mention it has a zoo with 2000 animals, lol. It does seem that those who've been there think it's a decent place and those who've never seen it dismiss it. So I'd like to ask just what cities in Mexico, wait I'll start a new post.


----------



## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> I am amazed that you are so.......well, never mind. She will shop while you pay off her mortgage.


lol. I've seen home wars too many times. Those two grown sons are not going to want the OP around, I'd wager, once mortgage is paid off. Careful, sir.


----------



## sunnyvmx (Mar 14, 2010)

If you really want to give the both of you a chance to live in Mexico then the Lake Chapala area is your only answer. Your wife will not have to adapt to a foreign culture. She can shop to her hearts content at all the bazars, thrift shops, weekly or almost daily street markets, weekend garage sales and hunt for those treasures she loves to find. I know I do as do many others. 
Restaurants do cater to American tastes and service. Easy flat walking if care is taken on the cobblestones. Many, many expats to befriend and socialize with so she will hardly know she's left the States. You on the other hand can find enough Mexican influence to feel you are really living in Mexico and you'll only be happy if she's happy. It will be the best of both worlds for both of you.

I sometimes think if my husband and I had settled in Lakeside instead of the Mexican town of Catemaco in the State of Veracruz, we might still be together....but then probably not.


----------



## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

inflagrante said:


> Wow, there are some seriously judgmental people on this board. My advice to vantexan would be to live his life the way he wants to live it and stop asking for advice from the people of this board.


Vantexan asked us for opinions. We didn't force him to do anything he doesn't want to.


----------



## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

> Maybe Overland Park, Kansas isn´t such a bad place after all.
> 
> 
> > We lived in Overland Park, KS for a couple of years in the early '70s. I was bored to tears. The best thing was a Northern and Sichuan Chinese restaurant in the lower level of the Metcalf South Mall. THere was also a not bad BBQ joint.
> ...


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sunnyvmx said:


> If you really want to give the both of you a chance to live in Mexico then the Lake Chapala area is your only answer. Your wife will not have to adapt to a foreign culture. She can shop to her hearts content at all the bazars, thrift shops, weekly or almost daily street markets, weekend garage sales and hunt for those treasures she loves to find. I know I do as do many others.
> Restaurants do cater to American tastes and service. Easy flat walking if care is taken on the cobblestones. Many, many expats to befriend and socialize with so she will hardly know she's left the States. You on the other hand can find enough Mexican influence to feel you are really living in Mexico and you'll only be happy if she's happy. It will be the best of both worlds for both of you.


I visited the Chapala are last fall for a few days and had a very nice time, though it doesn't appeal to me as a part of Mexico I'd want to live in. I agree with everything you've written except the bit about walking on those damn cobblestones. I am in excellent health and used to walking everywhere, but I found navigating on those big bumps paving almost every street in Chapala and Ajijic, not an easy thing to do, especially if I were wearing sandals.


----------

