# If you were me, where would you go?



## Beachy Futures

Hey guys! 

Been reading non stop through forums here today and getting a lot of good info, however I still find myself unsure of what to do.

I'm a single caucasian guy (30) from Canada, work online and travelling with a friend to the Philippines for 3-5 months depending how we like it. My flight is in one week.

I lived abroad before having lived for half a year in Thailand last year which I found incredibly safe and never had any issues. Although I evaded a couple pickpocketing attempts still didn't phase me and it comes with the territory IMO. (However I fully understand Pl isn't Thailand).

In any case I'm looking at Cebu, more recently Tagbilaran and Panglao area. I can have internet drops but I need to be sure I can do email and basic Web work for about 5 hours day at least 5 days per week.
I also want close proximity to beaches and preferably a less crowded area but night life can be found within a 15 to 20 min drive.

It would be good to have all essential amenities as well. Of course safer is better, I understand no matter where I go to be careful and aware. Although I'll pay for increased safety and everything else I mentioned above.

Budget is $500 usd month for rent ($1000 total between the two of us). I imagine food costs cannot rival the $500 to $600 month I currently pay so I'm not so concerned about that.

I've read a lot on here about Subic bay which I hadn't even heard of before. It looks quite nice, not sure it has the beach though.

I should also add I was living in Chiang Mai for a good portion of being in Thailand and would love to find something similar (if it exists!) In the Philippines with a beach = ) 

Any thoughts or recommendations are greatly appreciated.

All the best.
Ryan


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## jon1

Ryan,

Subic has several beaches. Camayan Beach, Dungeree Beach, All Hands Beach, and SBMA beach. All but SBMA beach charge a 300p entrance fee. The first to me is the nicest. Subic is very widespread (It can take you 30 minutes (almost 10 miles) from Ocean Adventure to the Central Business District). 

I would look up in the Cubi Point area for an apartment (Crown Peak?, etc.). There are a couple of places there that rent (I have seen advertisements as low as 6000p/mo=$150 USD for a 1 bedroom). There is also a bus there that shuttles people to different places around the freeport (Not sure how much that costs or the frequency/schedule). You might also want to consider getting a bicycle or a scooter. You could easily get a 2 bedroom duplex for less than $1000/mo. I would recommend Binictican or Cubi Point. Kalayaan still has break in issues (closest to Olongapo/SBMA boundary). 

The internet here is spot on. Never had any issues in 1.5 years. There are 3 plans; 999p/mo (1MB), 1999p/mo (2MB) and 3000p/mo (3MB). These are DSL connections. You will also have to pay for a landline (603p/mo). I have the 3MB plan and get really good throughput. However, I have tested between here and the states and the best I could average was 768K. Still good enough to video calls, etc. I use an IP based phone (VOIP) for my US/International Calls and rarely have any packet droppage.

Right now is the peak of tourist season. The weather is great (85-88 degrees daytime and 70-75 at night) and very little rain (rained twice in the last month). So rentals will be in high demand. There is always a nice breeze here which makes it seem even cooler.

There is some nightlife in the Freeport (Pier 1) but the girlie bars are mostly in Barrio Barretto (about 30-35 minutes from Cubi. 20-25 minutes from Binictican).

Jon


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## Beachy Futures

*Thanks!*

Thanks Jon!

That really helps clear things up about Subic! It's definitely a likely spot now. I get the impression it's a major Expat hub? 

I don't suppose you have experience anywhere else in the Philippines to compare it to? If Subic truly is THAT much better than places like Cebu, Tagbilaran & Dumaguete then it will be a no brainer for me. My friend is still really caught up in going to Cebu and Bohol, but it's good to know of a high quality option.

Yeah I plan on getting a scooter where-ever I go. Internet sounds very solid as does the weather and beaches!

Have you thought about going elsewhere in the Philippines or is Subic perfect in your opinion for what you need?

Thanks,
Ryan



jon1 said:


> Ryan,
> 
> Subic has several beaches. Camayan Beach, Dungeree Beach, All Hands Beach, and SBMA beach. All but SBMA beach charge a 300p entrance fee. The first to me is the nicest. Subic is very widespread (It can take you 30 minutes (almost 10 miles) from Ocean Adventure to the Central Business District).
> 
> I would look up in the Cubi Point area for an apartment (Crown Peak?, etc.). There are a couple of places there that rent (I have seen advertisements as low as 6000p/mo=$150 USD for a 1 bedroom). There is also a bus there that shuttles people to different places around the freeport (Not sure how much that costs or the frequency/schedule). You might also want to consider getting a bicycle or a scooter. You could easily get a 2 bedroom duplex for less than $1000/mo. I would recommend Binictican or Cubi Point. Kalayaan still has break in issues (closest to Olongapo/SBMA boundary).
> 
> The internet here is spot on. Never had any issues in 1.5 years. There are 3 plans; 999p/mo (1MB), 1999p/mo (2MB) and 3000p/mo (3MB). These are DSL connections. You will also have to pay for a landline (603p/mo). I have the 3MB plan and get really good throughput. However, I have tested between here and the states and the best I could average was 768K. Still good enough to video calls, etc. I use an IP based phone (VOIP) for my US/International Calls and rarely have any packet droppage.
> 
> Right now is the peak of tourist season. The weather is great (85-88 degrees daytime and 70-75 at night) and very little rain (rained twice in the last month). So rentals will be in high demand. There is always a nice breeze here which makes it seem even cooler.
> 
> There is some nightlife in the Freeport (Pier 1) but the girlie bars are mostly in Barrio Barretto (about 30-35 minutes from Cubi. 20-25 minutes from Binictican).
> 
> Jon


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## Asian Spirit

*Subic*



Beachy Futures said:


> Thanks Jon!
> 
> That really helps clear things up about Subic! It's definitely a likely spot now. I get the impression it's a major Expat hub?
> 
> I don't suppose you have experience anywhere else in the Philippines to compare it to? If Subic truly is THAT much better than places like Cebu, Tagbilaran & Dumaguete then it will be a no brainer for me. My friend is still really caught up in going to Cebu and Bohol, but it's good to know of a high quality option.
> 
> Yeah I plan on getting a scooter where-ever I go. Internet sounds very solid as does the weather and beaches!
> 
> Have you thought about going elsewhere in the Philippines or is Subic perfect in your opinion for what you need?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ryan


My wife and I live less than an hour from Subic Bay, close to Angeles city and inland from the ocean.
I agree with Jon in that the entire Subic area is a fantastic place to call home-especially if you enjoy the beach. Also, other places away from Subic have truly sub-standard internet service. For me, if I were going to move, Subic would be the only place I would consider. Been here 10 years now and still love living in the country...


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## Beachy Futures

Thanks Gene 

I've read several of yours and jon1s posts. Seems you guys are really big supporters of Subic over the other areas quite a bit. I guess I'm just having a hard time fully understanding exactly why this is. It's not that I doubt Subic is great, it's just that there also seem to be countless other (what seem to be) amazing/popular spots in the Philippines. 

Just so I can understand though, if I were to sum it up

_Elsewhere I'll have to put up with;_
- Poor Internet
- Rolling Brown Outs
- Increased Crime Potential
- Less available amenities (in many cases)

That pretty much sums it up?

I've decided with my friend that we're going to check out Subic in a couple weeks after arriving in Manila and touring for a few days. Then we'll head out to Cebu, Bohol and I think have a good idea of the comparison first hand, which is what I think we really need.

More than anything is it the safety that Subic offers over other parts of the Philippines that makes it so alluring to you guys?

Many thanks for your advice as well!
Ryan




Gene and Viol said:


> My wife and I live less than an hour from Subic Bay, close to Angeles city and inland from the ocean.
> I agree with Jon in that the entire Subic area is a fantastic place to call home-especially if you enjoy the beach. Also, other places away from Subic have truly sub-standard internet service. For me, if I were going to move, Subic would be the only place I would consider. Been here 10 years now and still love living in the country...


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## Asian Spirit

*Paradise*



Beachy Futures said:


> Thanks Gene
> 
> I've read several of yours and jon1s posts. Seems you guys are really big supporters of Subic over the other areas quite a bit. I guess I'm just having a hard time fully understanding exactly why this is. It's not that I doubt Subic is great, it's just that there also seem to be countless other (what seem to be) amazing/popular spots in the Philippines.
> 
> Just so I can understand though, if I were to sum it up
> 
> _Elsewhere I'll have to put up with;_
> - Poor Internet
> - Rolling Brown Outs
> - Increased Crime Potential
> - Less available amenities (in many cases)
> 
> That pretty much sums it up?
> 
> I've decided with my friend that we're going to check out Subic in a couple weeks after arriving in Manila and touring for a few days. Then we'll head out to Cebu, Bohol and I think have a good idea of the comparison first hand, which is what I think we really need.
> 
> More than anything is it the safety that Subic offers over other parts of the Philippines that makes it so alluring to you guys?
> 
> Many thanks for your advice as well!
> Ryan


Yea, I think that just about covers the reasons for Subic. Infrastructure and safety issues for sure. It's kinda like living in Hawaii but at about 1/3 the cost. Many other places in the country that are great but Subic is the place I like going. There and Baguio City---but no beaches in Baguio.
Just stay away from the southern part of the country. It is a dangerous place by all accounts. Check your embassy website for travel warnings in the South...


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## jon1

Beachy Futures said:


> Thanks Gene
> 
> I've read several of yours and jon1s posts. Seems you guys are really big supporters of Subic over the other areas quite a bit. I guess I'm just having a hard time fully understanding exactly why this is. It's not that I doubt Subic is great, it's just that there also seem to be countless other (what seem to be) amazing/popular spots in the Philippines.
> 
> Just so I can understand though, if I were to sum it up
> 
> _Elsewhere I'll have to put up with;_
> - Poor Internet
> - Rolling Brown Outs
> - Increased Crime Potential
> - Less available amenities (in many cases)
> 
> That pretty much sums it up?
> 
> I've decided with my friend that we're going to check out Subic in a couple weeks after arriving in Manila and touring for a few days. Then we'll head out to Cebu, Bohol and I think have a good idea of the comparison first hand, which is what I think we really need.
> 
> More than anything is it the safety that Subic offers over other parts of the Philippines that makes it so alluring to you guys?
> 
> Many thanks for your advice as well!
> Ryan


Ryan,

That sums it up pretty much. 

The beaches in Subic are nice but not the pristine ones that you would envision at for example, El Nido Palawan and the like. I have traveled throughout the country and the remoteness of the provinces have their appeal. However, you will have to accept the issues with the power, security, internet outages/lag, etc. Then they may appeal to you. 

Do not quote me on the rent I previously posted for Crown Peak. I only got that figure from a post board at the SCTEX Toll booth. I am sure that you and your friend can find a place between $500-1000/mo without a problem. Be prepared to pay for the full six months with a 2 month deposit. You also want to make sure that the lease has some kind of verbage detailing how quickly the landlord has to refund the deposit.

Also, check out this post I put out describing the leasing practices over here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/981160-post17.html
This will give you an idea of what you will be running into before you get here.


I like the vantage point of Subic. It's perfect for launching off on little 2-3 day road trips, along with just shooting up to Clark and flying to wherever we wish to fly in country.

Jon

You will find that Subic is very close to living in Western conditions without the local hassles (trikes, jeepneys, beggars). Also, if you want to interact, the locals are a 15 minute drive away and you can get your fill of the culture.

Jon


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## Beachy Futures

Thanks Guys!

Appreciate the insights. I'm closing in on leaving (less than 4 days now).

A few last questions. 

I read some things online that gave Subic bay the moniker sludge or **** river? Because there's a constant flow of waste into the bay apparently? Is there any truth to this? Or is there just a certain area you don't swim in but there's a fresh area further away?

If I only wanted to stay initially for 1-2 months do you still think I could find something affordable in my price range, or is everyone going to expect a 6 month minimum? I just know when I was travelling through Thailand it was fairly easy to find month to month, not sure if it's the same in the Philippines...

Lastly, are there health stores like we have in North America in the Philippines? Specifically in Subic Bay?

Many thanks again!
Ryan


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## jon1

Beachy Futures said:


> Thanks Guys!
> 
> Appreciate the insights. I'm closing in on leaving (less than 4 days now).
> 
> A few last questions.
> 
> I read some things online that gave Subic bay the moniker sludge or **** river? Because there's a constant flow of waste into the bay apparently? Is there any truth to this? Or is there just a certain area you don't swim in but there's a fresh area further away?
> 
> If I only wanted to stay initially for 1-2 months do you still think I could find something affordable in my price range, or is everyone going to expect a 6 month minimum? I just know when I was travelling through Thailand it was fairly easy to find month to month, not sure if it's the same in the Philippines...
> 
> Lastly, are there health stores like we have in North America in the Philippines? Specifically in Subic Bay?
> 
> Many thanks again!
> Ryan


Ryan,

You can swim at the beaches without worry about sludge. The bay is pretty clean. They place that they refer to as **** river is pretty much filled in with silt (maybe 1' deep at high tide). I am sure that there is human waste being fed into the water basin somehow (most likely from squatters areas in Olongapo and Barrio Barretto). I can't speak to the water sanitation system outside of the Freeport. I believe that the Freeport is still using the infrastructure that they inherited from the USN. There has been very little (if any) rain as it is mid-dry season now. That would also help keep the waters clear from the silt runoff. One thing to worry about right now is jellyfish. They have started to drift into the bay and I know that places like Camayan are trying their best to keep the beach clear of them and have prepared their staff for immediate treatment. I am not sure which variety is out there but it appears to be a non-lethal, pesky type that gives a nasty little sting (could be serious if you were allergic to the sting).

I do know that the diving is supposed to be pretty good here. There are a bunch of wrecks in the bay to dive on, some even pre-WWII. The only active Dive shop that I am aware of is Johan's in Baloy (next to Barrio Barretto). Vasco's has shut their dive shop down for now (not sure if it will reopen in the future).

As far as short term (less than 6 months), you might want to look at Subic Homes (Long Term Lease | Subic Homes) and maybe you can negotiate something. They do weekend/weekly rates and short/long term leases. Naturally the weekend/weekly rates can be pricey. The good news is the peak of the season is on the down slide. You should also look at the Crown Peak/Cubi area. There are some condotels in the Central Business District near the boardwalk. I am not sure if they do short-term rentals or not. 

I have not seen any health stores here in the Subic Bay area. Since you are already planning on hanging out initially in Manila, I would look there and buy what you need (GNC Live Well Philippines - Store Locator) if you can't bring with you what you require. When it comes to products from the States/North America, expect a 20-25% price markup on what you would pay at home. And if you are into something specific, you may not be able to find what you use, even in Manila.

I recommend that you bring some OTC meds with you. Loperamide (the local dosage is half what we are used to), Antihistamine, and also check on any shots that you can get (Yellow fever, Tetanus, etc.). Bring some really good sunscreen too (SPF50). 

Jon

PS I forgot to mention that in Cubi/Binictican they are wired for 110v/220v so that you could use your 110v devices. You will not find that anywhere else in-country


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## Beachy Futures

Awesome stuff! Thanks Jon that really helps clear things up!

My only concern now is that the internet will cut it while travelling. I'm recalling how my 6mb connection in Chiang Mai felt slow compared to what I've enjoyed here in Canada the last few months  I'll know soon enough!

Well noted on the supplements/medication! Getting that all sorted out over the next couple days. I guess it isn't like Thailand with a Pharmacy every 10 feet it seems. 

I actually learned the hard way in Thailand with an order about $550 USD that was stopped at customs and after at least 20+ hours of wasted effort on it trying to get it, I had to let it go and it was "destroyed". Basically the bribe they wanted to let it pass was practically the cost of re-ordering. It was either that or get evidence of at least 5 people who were splitting the order, as of course it's impossible for one person to want 12 different items from an online health store without intent to re-sell... Ugh lol! Explaining I was buying in bulk in one shipment to last the next 3 months wasn't good enough apparently.

I don't expect it to be the same over in the Philippines but in any case I've learned if I buy ANYTHING overseas I buy in small amounts air parcels and not to use a courier ever unless I want trouble.

So ironic, Jelly Fish were my one and only real concern about swimming there, guess it's like anywhere else, just keep aware of your surroundings and you'll be ok. Sounds like there's a lot to do in any case.

Oh and do people rent cars over there? Or is it basically bikes or taking those Jeepneys around. Just curious how the transportation works? I LOVED driving the scooters around in Thailand.

Great to hear about the 110v! I struggled for months in Thailand to find a converter for 220v to 120v/110v before I gave up. I destroyed a couple electronics in the process, came to the conclusion, if I want an electric shaver that works I'll need to buy one over there.


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## jon1

Beachy Futures said:


> Awesome stuff! Thanks Jon that really helps clear things up!
> 
> My only concern now is that the internet will cut it while travelling. I'm recalling how my 6mb connection in Chiang Mai felt slow compared to what I've enjoyed here in Canada the last few months  I'll know soon enough!
> 
> Well noted on the supplements/medication! Getting that all sorted out over the next couple days. I guess it isn't like Thailand with a Pharmacy every 10 feet it seems.
> 
> I actually learned the hard way in Thailand with an order about $550 USD that was stopped at customs and after at least 20+ hours of wasted effort on it trying to get it, I had to let it go and it was "destroyed". Basically the bribe they wanted to let it pass was practically the cost of re-ordering. It was either that or get evidence of at least 5 people who were splitting the order, as of course it's impossible for one person to want 12 different items from an online health store without intent to re-sell... Ugh lol! Explaining I was buying in bulk in one shipment to last the next 3 months wasn't good enough apparently.
> 
> I don't expect it to be the same over in the Philippines but in any case I've learned if I buy ANYTHING overseas I buy in small amounts air parcels and not to use a courier ever unless I want trouble.
> 
> So ironic, Jelly Fish were my one and only real concern about swimming there, guess it's like anywhere else, just keep aware of your surroundings and you'll be ok. Sounds like there's a lot to do in any case.
> 
> Oh and do people rent cars over there? Or is it basically bikes or taking those Jeepneys around. Just curious how the transportation works? I LOVED driving the scooters around in Thailand.
> 
> Great to hear about the 110v! I struggled for months in Thailand to find a converter for 220v to 120v/110v before I gave up. I destroyed a couple electronics in the process, came to the conclusion, if I want an electric shaver that works I'll need to buy one over there.


You can get higher than 3MB in Manila but that depends on the accommodations/building that you are staying in.

There are Pharmacies everywhere, just not the quality/full spectrum of products that you grow accustomed to. If you have to get some meds, stick with the big name Pharmacies like Watson or Mercury.

If you order anything and have it sent in, you can expect to pay betweeen 50-75% on tariffs. This is excluding the scenario about quantities that you dealt with. I bought a $100 motorcycle part in Singapore, paid for it to be shipped here and had to pay $50 to get it released/delivered. The couriers dont ever precoordinate deliveries (even though they can track the shipment every step of the way, you provide numbers for contact/text, etc. etc.) and will take a couple of days to get your package once it is at the LOCAL delivery stop.

It's hard to get cars rented. Most likely only in Manila is your option. Also, if you are going to rent one, might as well go with a driver too. That way you don't deal with the driving headaches and if there is an accident, the local should be able to resolve any issues. Manila sucks for driving and it can take 2 hours to cross the city (6-7km) in the worst of traffic periods. I don't know about renting a scooter (one can be purchased for between $1-2000USD/40-80,000php). I know of a place in Angeles that rents out bikes. Also, the best way to get to Subic is via the expressways (no scooters, trikes, bikes below 400cc are allowed). Once you get to the NLEX it's 2 hours to Subic via the expressways. In Subic a scooter is a good option for travel if you are able to locate one for rent. Not much traffic, slower speeds. Also, to ride a scooter/motorcycle here you need a helmet that is locally certified (has an "ICC" sticker on the back) and wear shoes not sandals. You can use an International Driving Permit + your valid home country Driver's license for 90 days. After that to drive here legally after 90 days you will need to get a local driver's license. You also need to be carrying a copy of the Registration (CR) and Receipt for Registration (OR) when driving the scooter. If you are renting, I would carry a copy of the rental contract too (or a Letter of Authorization for you to drive a motorcycle not in your name). If you purchase used, keep a copy of the Deed of Sale.

In the Freeport, traffic laws are strictly enforced on the road coming from the SCTEX thru the Central Business District. Use your signals and observe solid lines/STOP signs and you should be OK.

Be wary on the Jeepneys. There are lots of pickpockets that will even slice your pockets to get your stuff. I would not use those in Manila. In the Subic Freeport, use the Winstar or Shuttles. Taxies are costly in comparison.

If you can afford to, bring devices that can use either current that way you won't risk frying them. Step down converters can be purchased (I think they go for around $30-40USD) locally at most hardware stores.


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## mihia

I would also recommend Tagaytay - Batangas for your stay. Close to the beaches and easily around good accommodations (eg. Canyon Cove and Anvaya). 

Nuvali is one of the upscale green-developments up there if you want to stay for a few months or more.


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## Beachy Futures

Yikes @ the tariffs! So regardless of what you order into the country you're looking at paying that much eh? wow.

Didn't think of renting a car and getting a driver, I suppose it's affordable.
Definitely an interesting option. 

Thanks for the tips on the scooters AND the jeepneys, I probably wasn't going to hesitate about riding those until now. Slicing pockets open, jeez! I like to carry a small over the shoulder bag I keep in front of me, I'll just have to be extra watchful. 
Happy to know I'm not going to be in Manila for long, yikes!



jon1 said:


> You can get higher than 3MB in Manila but that depends on the accommodations/building that you are staying in.
> 
> There are Pharmacies everywhere, just not the quality/full spectrum of products that you grow accustomed to. If you have to get some meds, stick with the big name Pharmacies like Watson or Mercury.
> 
> If you order anything and have it sent in, you can expect to pay betweeen 50-75% on tariffs. This is excluding the scenario about quantities that you dealt with. I bought a $100 motorcycle part in Singapore, paid for it to be shipped here and had to pay $50 to get it released/delivered. The couriers dont ever precoordinate deliveries (even though they can track the shipment every step of the way, you provide numbers for contact/text, etc. etc.) and will take a couple of days to get your package once it is at the LOCAL delivery stop.
> 
> It's hard to get cars rented. Most likely only in Manila is your option. Also, if you are going to rent one, might as well go with a driver too. That way you don't deal with the driving headaches and if there is an accident, the local should be able to resolve any issues. Manila sucks for driving and it can take 2 hours to cross the city (6-7km) in the worst of traffic periods. I don't know about renting a scooter (one can be purchased for between $1-2000USD/40-80,000php). I know of a place in Angeles that rents out bikes. Also, the best way to get to Subic is via the expressways (no scooters, trikes, bikes below 400cc are allowed). Once you get to the NLEX it's 2 hours to Subic via the expressways. In Subic a scooter is a good option for travel if you are able to locate one for rent. Not much traffic, slower speeds. Also, to ride a scooter/motorcycle here you need a helmet that is locally certified (has an "ICC" sticker on the back) and wear shoes not sandals. You can use an International Driving Permit + your valid home country Driver's license for 90 days. After that to drive here legally after 90 days you will need to get a local driver's license. You also need to be carrying a copy of the Registration (CR) and Receipt for Registration (OR) when driving the scooter. If you are renting, I would carry a copy of the rental contract too (or a Letter of Authorization for you to drive a motorcycle not in your name). If you purchase used, keep a copy of the Deed of Sale.
> 
> In the Freeport, traffic laws are strictly enforced on the road coming from the SCTEX thru the Central Business District. Use your signals and observe solid lines/STOP signs and you should be OK.
> 
> Be wary on the Jeepneys. There are lots of pickpockets that will even slice your pockets to get your stuff. I would not use those in Manila. In the Subic Freeport, use the Winstar or Shuttles. Taxies are costly in comparison.
> 
> If you can afford to, bring devices that can use either current that way you won't risk frying them. Step down converters can be purchased (I think they go for around $30-40USD) locally at most hardware stores.


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## Asian Spirit

*Living Here*



Beachy Futures said:


> Yikes @ the tariffs! So regardless of what you order into the country you're looking at paying that much eh? wow.
> 
> Didn't think of renting a car and getting a driver, I suppose it's affordable.
> Definitely an interesting option.
> 
> Thanks for the tips on the scooters AND the jeepneys, I probably wasn't going to hesitate about riding those until now. Slicing pockets open, jeez! I like to carry a small over the shoulder bag I keep in front of me, I'll just have to be extra watchful.
> Happy to know I'm not going to be in Manila for long, yikes!


Don't know how much time if any you have spent here in the past, but suggest you not commit yourself to moving or staying here unless you until you stay for an extended amount of time. Guaranteed you will be in shock by just the things you see within 5 minutes of leaving the airport in a taxi etc.
The slashing of pockets and other forms of theft and corruption are in every corner of this country top to bottom.
This is not to discourage your coming here in any way. Just want you to understand living here is not a walk in the park and more like a walk through a minefield with a blindfold on.
Would hate to see you wind up one of the statistics that we read about in the local news paper or blog site like this one...


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## DonAndAbby

Beachy Futures said:


> More than anything is it the safety that Subic offers over other parts of the Philippines that makes it so alluring to you guys?
> 
> Ryan


Hi Ryan,

I have been in Phils since October and just spent 3 weeks in Subic, Cebu City and Davao City. Now I have decided to move to Subic as it seems to be the best fit for us. We will be back there for house hunting in a few weeks.

Cebu City has many expats but it is a bit too much city for me, with lots of traffic. I didn't care for Mactan which is where the beaches are. The decent beaches seem to be all at the resorts. Davao City is fairly nice and clean and organized but the main thing I don't like is that you are very limited in local travel opportunities. Davao city is very safe but you can't go very far outside the city without getting into higher risks. It is a shame because it is a beautiful area of the Philippines.

Subic is safe and I like the fact that you can drive in the freeport almost like you are in the US. I like to ride bikes and that is also safe in the freeport. I didn't make it to any beaches so I can't comment on that. I am a SCUBA diver so I hope to dive as much as possible, but I am not expecting the absolute best diving or visibility in the bay. They have a beautiful new Ayala mall in the freeport but you will pay US like prices most of the time there. Good place to hang out though and you will see many expats including expat families. The people in the freeport were very friendly and helpful. Of course it helps that Abby likes to chat with everyone and makes new friends easily! The proximity to Clark airport is great for discount flights to domestic and int'l destinations.

The only thing we didn't like about Subic was the taxis! No meters and high prices, even with Abby's bargain hunting! I was surprised that they did not have meters as I would think SBMA would require them.

Good luck!

Don


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## richardsinger

I regularly have meds shipped to Philippines (buying from online pharmacy). The only charge I have to pay is 40 pesos at the post office for VAT.

Richard


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## casualcaveman

Hi All,

Thanks for a great thread so far.

I think I should add my questions here rather than start a new thread since, like Ryan, I'm also interested in comparing and contrasting Subic with some of the more recommended parts of the Visayas. Plus I'd like to keep up with any observations Ryan posts during his travels.

1) Do any of the beaches around Subic Bay have surfable waves? Or are they sheltered by the bay? Plus I guess I'd like to ask the same general question for the rest of the country's beaches - are the waves generally surfable or more of the small/lapping variety?

2) What are the best and worst months to visit? (the Philippines in general and Subic in particular)

3) Are there any high-rise residential options in the freeport or surrounding areas? (I've found in other countries that mosquitoes are less of a hassle the higher you live ) 

4) What about gated communities in the freeport? (Or is the whole of the freeport like one big gated community, as I read somewhere?)

Thanks again!
CC


----------



## jon1

casualcaveman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thanks for a great thread so far.
> 
> I think I should add my questions here rather than start a new thread since, like Ryan, I'm also interested in comparing and contrasting Subic with some of the more recommended parts of the Visayas. Plus I'd like to keep up with any observations Ryan posts during his travels.
> 
> 1) Do any of the beaches around Subic Bay have surfable waves? Or are they sheltered by the bay? Plus I guess I'd like to ask the same general question for the rest of the country's beaches - are the waves generally surfable or more of the small/lapping variety?
> 
> 2) What are the best and worst months to visit? (the Philippines in general and Subic in particular)
> 
> 3) Are there any high-rise residential options in the freeport or surrounding areas? (I've found in other countries that mosquitoes are less of a hassle the higher you live )
> 
> 4) What about gated communities in the freeport? (Or is the whole of the freeport like one big gated community, as I read somewhere?)
> 
> Thanks again!
> CC


CC,

The beaches in the bay are too sheltered for surfing. Most surfers go to La Union (China Sea, 6 hours north of Subic, Baler (Pacific, ? hours from Subic), Leyte (Pacific, very remote hard to get too), and Surigao (Pacific).

Best months in Subic are November - May (Dry Season). Worst is July - September (heaviest of Monsoon season).

There are only a few high rises (and even then they are about 5-6 stories max). Crown Peak has a few (I believe 3-4 stories) and there is one in the Central Business District (maybe 5 stories, can't remember the name).

Basically the whole Freeport is a gated community. There are guard posts at every gate, plus at the entrances/exits of each majore housing area (Kalayaan and Binictican).

If you are in the Visayas you will be dealing with more and stronger Typhoon winds when they roll thru. They usually roll thru there first.

Jon


----------



## casualcaveman

jon1 said:


> CC,
> 
> The beaches in the bay are too sheltered for surfing. Most surfers go to La Union (China Sea, 6 hours north of Subic, Baler (Pacific, ? hours from Subic), Leyte (Pacific, very remote hard to get too), and Surigao (Pacific).
> 
> Best months in Subic are November - May (Dry Season). Worst is July - September (heaviest of Monsoon season).
> 
> There are only a few high rises (and even then they are about 5-6 stories max). Crown Peak has a few (I believe 3-4 stories) and there is one in the Central Business District (maybe 5 stories, can't remember the name).
> 
> Basically the whole Freeport is a gated community. There are guard posts at every gate, plus at the entrances/exits of each majore housing area (Kalayaan and Binictican).
> 
> If you are in the Visayas you will be dealing with more and stronger Typhoon winds when they roll thru. They usually roll thru there first.
> 
> Jon


Hi Jon,

Thanks very much for your reply.

I don't recognize the other beach spots, but La Union is actually on my list of places to investigate further because of allegedly decent security. Does anybody have anything good or bad to say about La Union?

In terms of security generally, would it be fair to say that SBMA is on a whole higher level than the rest of the country?

Another security question - would you recommend owning dog(s) in SBMA to be as essential as I've seen it recommended in the rest of the country?

And one more animal question - given the lack of high rises, are mosquitoes a problem?

Thanks again!
CC


----------



## jon1

casualcaveman said:


> Hi Jon,
> 
> Thanks very much for your reply.
> 
> I don't recognize the other beach spots, but La Union is actually on my list of places to investigate further because of allegedly decent security. Does anybody have anything good or bad to say about La Union?
> 
> In terms of security generally, would it be fair to say that SBMA is on a whole higher level than the rest of the country?
> 
> Another security question - would you recommend owning dog(s) in SBMA to be as essential as I've seen it recommended in the rest of the country?
> 
> And one more animal question - given the lack of high rises, are mosquitoes a problem?
> 
> Thanks again!
> CC


I think La Union is relatively safe. I haven't stayed there. I do know that they get lots of foreign tourists for the surfing. 

I think that the Subic Freeport is about as safe as you can get (without being encumbered with walled property, guard dogs, etc.). You can own dogs in the Freeport but you have to keep them under control. Lots of people here have dogs (mostly toy from what I have seen but a fair number of larger breeds). If the dog(s) are excessive yappers you will probably get complaints from your neighbors via SBMA and then will have to get rid of the dog(s). Also, if you want your yard fenced you will have to get a special permit from SBMA for that. Check out the SBMA web site (Official Website of SUBIC BAY METROPOLITAN AUTHORITY (SBMA)) and download the Resident's Handbook. It has lots of good info about do's, don'ts and how to's.

Mosquitoes can be problematic depending on where you are renting. Using some common sense can help mitigate them. Keep the grass trimmed down, clutter free yard (leaves and other materials that can collect water) and your storm drain system unclogged pay huge dividends. I know of one case of Dengue in the last year where I live.

I highly recommend getting any immunizations that you can prior to coming here. Yellow fever, Tetanus and Rabies come to mind.


----------



## richardsinger

Window and door screens also help a lot with flies and mosquitoes. I have experienced living in 2 houses that are next door to each other, so essentially they face the same environment as far as mozzies are concerned.

The house without screens is always plagued by hundreds of flying things, the one with screens only has the occasional fly or mozzie getting inside. The bugs are coming from a vacant lot with trees that has been used as a dumping ground, and from a sugar cane plantation over the back wall. So if you can't control the source as suggested by jon1, screens can help a lot to make your house more comfortable.

Richard


----------



## jon1

richardsinger said:


> Window and door screens also help a lot with flies and mosquitoes. I have experienced living in 2 houses that are next door to each other, so essentially they face the same environment as far as mozzies are concerned.
> 
> The house without screens is always plagued by hundreds of flying things, the one with screens only has the occasional fly or mozzie getting inside. The bugs are coming from a vacant lot with trees that has been used as a dumping ground, and from a sugar cane plantation over the back wall. So if you can't control the source as suggested by jon1, screens can help a lot to make your house more comfortable.
> 
> Richard


Richard is spot on about the screens. I installed 2 screen doors in my place (cost me about 4000p total). Now, I get additional cross flow of air that keeps the house cool and no mosquitoes/flies.


----------



## casualcaveman

Thanks to both of you for your help!

I'll have a bit of a think to digest what I've learned, and then I'm sure I'll be back with some more questions


----------



## DonAndAbby

jon1 said:


> Ryan,
> 
> Kalayaan still has break in issues (closest to Olongapo/SBMA boundary).
> 
> Jon


Jon, can you tell me more about break-in issues in Kalayaan? Or is there another source of information about this? Sounds like the type of break-ins that that decent security system would deter, and we will have a nanny as well, so there will be someone at the house most of the time.

Thanks!

Don


----------



## jon1

DonAndAbby said:


> Jon, can you tell me more about break-in issues in Kalayaan? Or is there another source of information about this? Sounds like the type of break-ins that that decent security system would deter, and we will have a nanny as well, so there will be someone at the house most of the time.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Don


Don,

I got this info from people that used to live here when the USN was here and since the turnover. Historically, Kalayaan has been prone to break ins due to it's close proximity to the edge of the base/freeport. I had a conversation with a Kalayaan resident about 2 months ago. He said that his neighbor recently discovered a burglar in his house (middle of the night) and luckily the perp fled w/o any altercation. I have no visibility on the security measures being taken up there (other than the guards at the 2 entrances). 

I would think that some standard security practices would mitigate this. Maybe bar the windows? Install dead bolt locks. Have a small dog that can alert you. Keep the dog inside as burglars love to poison dogs before entering (common method is poisoning an egg). Maybe motion sensor lights would help too. Don't leave tools unsecured that could assist in the break in (saw, machete, ladder, etc.). Having someone in the house most of the time (daytime) I believe is a good idea also. Also, the more random your habits are the less the chance that they can figure out a good time for them to break in.

Jon


----------



## DonAndAbby

OK, thanks Jon, I will keep this in mind.

When we walked around Kalayaan, one of the houses we looked at was across the street from a very nice house that had a security guard. I asked the owner of another house we looked at about that, she said that some of the high profile residents hire full time security. I guess it would not be a a bad idea to live next door or across the street from one of them!

However, the area feels very safe during the daytime and all the houses we looked at had a very safe area for kids to play. There is almost no traffic up there.


----------



## Asian Spirit

*Security*



jon1 said:


> Don,
> 
> I got this info from people that used to live here when the USN was here and since the turnover. Historically, Kalayaan has been prone to break ins due to it's close proximity to the edge of the base/freeport. I had a conversation with a Kalayaan resident about 2 months ago. He said that his neighbor recently discovered a burglar in his house (middle of the night) and luckily the perp fled w/o any altercation. I have no visibility on the security measures being taken up there (other than the guards at the 2 entrances).
> 
> I would think that some standard security practices would mitigate this. Maybe bar the windows? Install dead bolt locks. Have a small dog that can alert you. Keep the dog inside as burglars love to poison dogs before entering (common method is poisoning an egg). Maybe motion sensor lights would help too. Don't leave tools unsecured that could assist in the break in (saw, machete, ladder, etc.). Having someone in the house most of the time (daytime) I believe is a good idea also. Also, the more random your habits are the less the chance that they can figure out a good time for them to break in.
> 
> Jon


That's great advise Jon. One thing too, is that locals seem to think of things or ways of doing things (even break-in's) that don't seem to cross our minds. Mostly because to us it would be too risky. So try to cover all the bases in your home security. Another security risk unfortunately can by any hired help you end up with. Maids, nanny's, and even drivers and gardeners pose a serious risk. They all have families and some could even get a job working for you as a way to rip off what you have to support their family. I'v always joked with my wife that if we didn't have such an honest family here as we do, that we would have to hire security and then hire other security to watch them! Sounds crazy but here, it's not that far off the truth...


----------



## jon1

DonAndAbby said:


> OK, thanks Jon, I will keep this in mind.
> 
> I guess it would not be a a bad idea to live next door or across the street from one of them!


I agree with you on this. As the presence of their security would help keep others away from your place (free guard). I have a similar situation in that there is a retirement village across the street from me that has a security guard sitting out front all night. A free extra set of eyes is always great.


----------



## jon1

Gene and Viol said:


> That's great advise Jon. One thing too, is that locals seem to think of things or ways of doing things (even break-in's) that don't seem to cross our minds. Mostly because to us it would be too risky. So try to cover all the bases in your home security. Another security risk unfortunately can by any hired help you end up with. Maids, nanny's, and even drivers and gardeners pose a serious risk. They all have families and some could even get a job working for you as a way to rip off what you have to support their family. I'v always joked with my wife that if we didn't have such an honest family here as we do, that we would have to hire security and then hire other security to watch them! Sounds crazy but here, it's not that far off the truth...


Yes Gene you are correct. You have to worry about anyone you hire. It is also very hard to vet people (unless they have been with the family for a while). Also, I believe that if you bring in a maid from the outside you will have to get NBI/local records checked and filed with SBMA for their SBMA ID. An honest family is priceless...


----------



## jon1

Here is an old article (from 2010) that I just found. SCTEX « View from Kalayaan

It's a Kalayaan resident's blog. It sounds to me that either the thefts are going unreported and/or the SBMA is being non-responsive.


----------



## DonAndAbby

jon1 said:


> Here is an old article (from 2010) that I just found. SCTEX « View from Kalayaan
> 
> It's a Kalayaan resident's blog. It sounds to me that either the thefts are going unreported and/or the SBMA is being non-responsive.


That is certainly enlightening and I will keep it in mind. I wonder if much has changed in the past two years?


----------



## jon1

DonAndAbby said:


> That is certainly enlightening and I will keep it in mind. I wonder if much has changed in the past two years?


Found another note about the same problem. SBMA administrator aims to turn Subic Freeport around during his term | Inquirer Business story was dated March of last year. It looks like the majority of thefts are "inside" jobs. As Gene alluded to previously. Basically, most of the homes victimized were vacation/weekend homes so the owner not always there.


----------



## hollyrose

*Whats the verdict?*

So Ryan, whats the verdict? You must be in PI by now, hopefully safe, happy and with an apartment. I'd love to hear any feedback you have about the places that were recommended to you. It would be nice to get the perspective of someone that isn't a long term resident/married to a local/retiree (not that I don't appreciate those opinions, they are probably the most accurate, however I like to have varied sources of information ). 

I work in the mining industry in Australia on a 2weeks on 1 week off roster and would like to start spending the majority of my weeks off in Asia. I was 100% set on the Philippines, but I'm feeling slightly intimidated the more I read. I'm a 26y caucasian Female, single and more than likely traveling alone. A work colleague and his Filo GF have offered to have me stay with them the first time I visit, which is a great start. But in the long term I need to be based in a country where I can be independent. Safety is obviously a huge concern, but its not worth doing it if I'm going to have to be wrapped in cotton wool and behind a guarded wall the whole time - I can do that in Australia. 

Subic certainly sounds good in terms of safety, but I have some questions re. lifestyle-
Ryan, what are the demographics like in the places you visited? 
CasualCaveman, are you in PI yet? Did you find any good surfing towns?
Locals - Is there much in the way of adventure sports around Subic? - Mountains, cliffs, reefs etc.? 

Thanks, 
Holly.

Still excited, but slightly dubious about my first few trips...


----------



## DonAndAbby

jon1 said:


> Found another note about the same problem. SBMA administrator aims to turn Subic Freeport around during his term | Inquirer Business story was dated March of last year. It looks like the majority of thefts are "inside" jobs. As Gene alluded to previously. Basically, most of the homes victimized were vacation/weekend homes so the owner not always there.


I just spent the last week in Subic Bay and spent a lot of time in Kalayaan. We finally decided to rent a house right in the center of Kalayaan. We looked at several and it seems that West Kalayaan is the area that might be more accessible to break-ins, because it is close to Olongapo. Everyone we asked had not heard of any recent break ins. However, it seemed that the houses we looked at in WK were more fortified against break ins.

I am not sure how recent it is, but there are a couple of police outposts in the community, so that may have been in response to the mentioned issues.


----------



## DonAndAbby

One more followup because car and scooter rentals were mentioned.

Regarding rental cars, there is a small car rental outfit in the Freeport, across from the big Jollybee next to the Ayala mall. I rented an old Korean diesel SUV from them for 2000 p per day (about $50). It did the job. They had a much newer SUV for 2500p a day and I might try it next time. They have some other cars too. After I had rented, I noticed that there is an Avis office in town too, but I did not inquire.

I only drove in the Freeport, and it is like the US, but even more strict on the main road. They have traffic cops at the main road intersections and they will pull you over quickly for any infractions. I think mostly they get people for rolling the stop signs and maybe for not stopping for peds in the crosswalks. Completely the opposite of most of the rest of the Phils where driving is absolutely crazy!

For scooter rentals, they can be had in Baloy Beach at Harley's hotel and at least one other place. Harley's quoted me 500p a day and they have a weekly rate too, but I ended up not renting one.


----------



## jon1

DonAndAbby said:


> I only drove in the Freeport, and it is like the US, but even more strict on the main road. They have traffic cops at the main road intersections and they will pull you over quickly for any infractions. I think mostly they get people for rolling the stop signs and maybe for not stopping for peds in the crosswalks. Completely the opposite of most of the rest of the Phils where driving is absolutely crazy!


That is where they prey on the new people and tourists. They will also hit you up if you change lanes (cross the solid lines) at the intersections or go straight thru the intersection from a lane marked as turn only. The new stop signs across from the Ayala mall are a favorite target along with rolling stops coming out of the gate from Olongapo...

Another thing is not using your turn signals. Anywhere else in the freeport you are safe from this harassment... i mean enforcement hehehehe


----------



## Asian Spirit

jon1 said:


> That is where they prey on the new people and tourists. They will also hit you up if you change lanes (cross the solid lines) at the intersections or go straight thru the intersection from a lane marked as turn only. The new stop signs across from the Ayala mall are a favorite target along with rolling stops coming out of the gate from Olongapo...
> 
> Another thing is not using your turn signals. Anywhere else in the freeport you are safe from this harassment... i mean enforcement hehehehe


Hey Jon, how's it goin? Ya know I remember living on Subic Freeport about 5 years ago. Traffic even then ran smoothly because of the strict enforcement of traffic laws. At that time too, they used radar guns to clock speed even over at Cubi Point and even on some side streets. Sure helped to keep people within the speed limits. Considering the "nutzoid" driving world outside of the freeport, it seemed like a true relief to have the cops actually doing their jobs-Hahaha


Gene


----------



## Beachy Futures

*Update...*

Hi Holly and everyone, 

Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been going non-stop and the times I had thought of responding to this thread go figure I didn't have Wifi.

Yes I ended up staying in the Philippines for about a month before I left for Vietnam and then Thailand where I am now. 

I went to Manila, Cebu and stayed in Cebu for the Sinulog festival then went off to Bohol and Panglao for a bit before heading back to Cebu and then Manila. I couldn't fit Subic into this trip although I DO plan to return and include Subic on that trip. We had to make a choice of Ho Chi Minh/Vietnam or Subic due to our schedule.

So my *overall impressions* after seeing other parts of SE Asia is this.


*Food:* What they say is true, if you like to eat healthy or are a picky eater it can be rough as the options are not so great unlike Vietnam where food is #1 IMO for Asia so far with Thailand just behind. Lots of Meat which is ok but everything is fried for the most part and lots of sugar, lots of fast food. Again I'm sure if you were to lock down a place and find all the local shops you could find what you need, I didn't spend enough time to confirm this but I think it may be possible. I personally found better food options in Cebu than Manila btw. 
I suppose if you were a fruitarian you could excel here lol. Otherwise for those who are looking for a balanced but "clean" diet here it will be tougher than your homeland more than likely.

Panglao was decent but expensive due to the location. Bohol on the other hand had some unique food options I found and was truly Epic in fact I DO believe when I return I will try to do an extended stay on Bohol as I really felt comfortable there and it was absolutely beautiful. 


*Lodging/Ammenities/Costs:* I would say out of the places I went to Cebu actually had the most "stuff" and is definitely MUCH more liveable than Manila, however there were other districts and suburbs I didn't visit. So there's more to see for sure. Bohol had enough to get by as did Panglao. For long term stay Cebu would win hands down IMO. Costs were more than I expected though overall, I was expecting things to be less than Thailand, not more. I found a nice place on Panglao for $1000 USD/month that was quite nice and I believe places on Bohol were considerably lower but I can't confirm how much as I didn't inquire at the time as I was leaving. Overall I would actually rate the Philippines as the most expensive place I've visited in SE Asia outside of maybe Bangkok, Thailand (I have yet to do Malaysia and Indonesia) but I can actually get by for less in Bangkok. I was pretty surprised about this as everyone had been telling me the opposite was true. Although with that said the rise of the Thai baht is not helping the case for Thailand. Vietnam was hands down as the cheapest and for the quality to $$$ ratio it can't be touched. Ho Chi Minh City is a A class city and the costs of staying/living there are mind boggling cheap by comparison, plus there's an awesome tourist/expat scene there. 


*Safety:* I also had a near altercation after the Sinulog festival in Cebu as I noticed a couple of guys within the crowd I was walking in who I could just feel were eyeing me and were close behind me. I abruptly stopped walking and walked in the opposite direction, they walked past me a few feet and then stopped themselves. I then walked within the crowd to lose them temporarily, went to a different angle and then stared at them HARD from a decent distance to let them know I was onto them, their gaze eventually fell onto mine and I think I scared the **** out of them and they went away. Had I not been surrounded by so many people I likely would have just ran away but it made sense to do what I did. 

Now I'm 6'1 and can look intimidating if I want to, so I think for these guys I gave the impression that I wasn't worth the trouble, however the fact that this occured after just a few days of being there tells me it would just be a matter of time if you're out at night before something would happen.

What annoys me most about this though is that there are in fact MANY wealthy Cebu Residents where I was wearing nice clothes and watches, driving nice cars. I was dressed like a bum in my IMO in my sandals and just happened to have my roughed up small pouch over my shoulder. Still these guys look at me like I'm rolling in it meanwhile the guy with the rolex, armani suit getting into his mercedez doesn't get a second look!!! That pissed me off and added weight to the argument that over there any white person walking around is looked as #1 for $$$ regardless of outward appearances.

The near theft attempt wasn't enough to really phase me though as the festival draws out criminals as well so it was expected in a way. Outside of that one incident though everything was fine and I never really felt overly unsafe but I always had my guard up. With that said there is definitely a vibe and knowing about their gun issues I would say I felt the least safe in the Philippines compared with Vietnam and Thailand. The least safe city being Manila in fact, waaaay too sketchy downtown, especially at night. Followed by Cebu and then Panglao/Bohol.


*People:* This is where they win and the reason I want to return. They were the friendliest and most laid back people I've met. Especially out in the Visayas although they were really nice in Manila as well. Also the added bonus of virtually everyone speaking English is HUGE, in fact that IS the reason the Philippines has so much pull. As much as I love Thailand it's a hassle to do most things that go beyond ordering food or finding a washroom. 

You asked about demographics, do you mean typical age range? I guess I'm lost on that a bit. Basically there is about 99.5% Filipino and 0.5% foreigner based on what I saw in the non-tourist zones. I would say its much lower though. My friend and I were stared at and even with dropped jaws in some cases by women or men I assume have not seen many young white guys up close in their lives. Was quite hilarious to see. Some would run up and give my friend a hug as he's quite a big jolly guy. Definitely not something that happens back home in Canada! Yes you WILL stand out here unless you're in Panglao/Boracay/Palawan. 


*Other Things:* Internet is problematic and its true what they say, it ain't so great. I would need to find a solution to this on my next trip as it isn't quite a deal breaker but for someone like myself that requires internet daily that is of at least moderate speed it was just below what I would like. I do believe Subic Bay would have what I would want based on what I have heard.


You're so close you should just make the trip and hang out with your friends here for a bit. If going out in the evening make sure to go out with your friends who live there. The further out of the cities IMO the safer it is, although you always want to keep your wits about you. 

Thailand is fairly close at the same time is it not? I just finished a stay in Ao Nang, Krabi and its beautiful and affordable! You can also get by on very basic Thai.

Hope that helps give some insights?

Regards!
Ryan




hollyrose said:


> So Ryan, whats the verdict? You must be in PI by now, hopefully safe, happy and with an apartment. I'd love to hear any feedback you have about the places that were recommended to you. It would be nice to get the perspective of someone that isn't a long term resident/married to a local/retiree (not that I don't appreciate those opinions, they are probably the most accurate, however I like to have varied sources of information ).
> 
> I work in the mining industry in Australia on a 2weeks on 1 week off roster and would like to start spending the majority of my weeks off in Asia. I was 100% set on the Philippines, but I'm feeling slightly intimidated the more I read. I'm a 26y caucasian Female, single and more than likely traveling alone. A work colleague and his Filo GF have offered to have me stay with them the first time I visit, which is a great start. But in the long term I need to be based in a country where I can be independent. Safety is obviously a huge concern, but its not worth doing it if I'm going to have to be wrapped in cotton wool and behind a guarded wall the whole time - I can do that in Australia.
> 
> Subic certainly sounds good in terms of safety, but I have some questions re. lifestyle-
> Ryan, what are the demographics like in the places you visited?
> CasualCaveman, are you in PI yet? Did you find any good surfing towns?
> Locals - Is there much in the way of adventure sports around Subic? - Mountains, cliffs, reefs etc.?
> 
> Thanks,
> Holly.
> 
> Still excited, but slightly dubious about my first few trips...


----------



## jon1

Gene and Viol said:


> Hey Jon, how's it goin? Ya know I remember living on Subic Freeport about 5 years ago. Traffic even then ran smoothly because of the strict enforcement of traffic laws. At that time too, they used radar guns to clock speed even over at Cubi Point and even on some side streets. Sure helped to keep people within the speed limits. Considering the "nutzoid" driving world outside of the freeport, it seemed like a true relief to have the cops actually doing their jobs-Hahaha
> 
> 
> Gene


I am doing alright. I will be back in country in a few weeks. 

Honestly, I haven't seen a radar trap since I moved there in Sep 2011. I will have to scope things out when I get back to make sure it is still safe before I take the bike out !!

Other than the tourists/outsiders stopping needlessly at places they have the right of way or confused by the confusing road markings in the road, driving in the Freeport is a breeze.

Anyways, as long as you have a SBMA sticker on your vehicle (Car or Motorcycle) you will usually not be screwed with.. 

Jon


----------



## dhream

DonAndAbby said:


> Hi Ryan,
> 
> The only thing we didn't like about Subic was the taxis! No meters and high prices, even with Abby's bargain hunting! I was surprised that they did not have meters as I would think SBMA would require them.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Don


Hi Don & All on the thread,

Could you define 'high' prices? I recall a similar thread about airport taxis in Chiang Mai being branded expensive. Then someone pointed out that the flame war was over US$5-8 dollars max! To go to the airport -from anywhere in Thailand's second largest city!

I myself, once a spendthrift to ruinous excess, have become one of those cheap charlies in Chiang Mai.

Cheers D.


----------



## dhream

I have just read this thread from end to end...
My situation in Thailand seems untenable in the very long term. 
But the talk of security to watch the security, even as a bitter joke, is very off putting indeed. And this is in the 'best' part of the PI!?

Ryan's own report about being menaced while 'looking like a bum' and being a youthful 6'1" was also worrying. I'm not that tall or that young, and I don't like getting about looking like a bum!
Can I carry arms, and can I use them? Seriously, it has been a LONG time since I went armed, and I am more against an armed population than for, but this place sounds not worth the bother, unless I can bring them smack freaking down, like the old days...

Then there's the landlords, and they say the Thais are shifty? I have yet to be scammed by any Thai at a level beyond tuk tuk drivers. 

Finally, as I suspected, the prices are not great in comparison to the neighbouring economies, although the peso is better for me than the baht, for now... it's surprising given the depth and breadth of the poverty spread. I have seen the urchins covered in road dust in manila, and thinking of them in the context of the high costs, crime, and the landlords, is all very disheartening indeed!


----------



## simonsays

dhream said:


> Hi Don & All on the thread,
> 
> Could you define 'high' prices? I recall a similar thread about airport taxis in Chiang Mai being branded expensive. Then someone pointed out that the flame war was over US$5-8 dollars max! To go to the airport -from anywhere in Thailand's second largest city!
> 
> I myself, once a spendthrift to ruinous excess, have become one of those cheap charlies in Chiang Mai.
> 
> Cheers D.


In Philippines, going by Manila trend, a 200 peso metered fare can escalate to 1000 peso or more ...

Airport taxi metered, for example, about 300 peso

When the taxis vanish along comes touts offering limousine for 3000 or more for same distance

In comparison engaging a travel agency pick up to hotel costs me a fixed sum of 1000 peso!!!


----------



## simonsays

dhream said:


> Can I carry arms, and can I use them?


Is that a serious question?

Foreigners aren't allowed to own or carry a gun

Locals on the other hand can build and own home made guns for hunting, shooting dogs and everything


----------



## Asian Spirit

ecureilx said:


> Is that a serious question?
> 
> Foreigners aren't allowed to own or carry a gun
> 
> Locals on the other hand can build and own home made guns for hunting, shooting dogs and everything


100% correct. Even the possession of just one live bullet can get you arrested and forever deported.


----------



## dhream

I'd rather not even have had to think about it, the sidearm. For someone who had a casual approach to life and death at nineteen, or maybe because of it, I am now very squeamish about violence and violent crime in my mature years... so I was serious, but it was fear, not macho-ness, that prompted my question, this place sounds pretty darn scary TBH. It must take some adjusting to, but then again, if you lived in Miami or Chicago... maybe not. I'm seriously disillusioned at the number of posts I have read today alone about crime and scammers from people with whom I normally would expect mutual respect and trust (landlords).


----------



## cvgtpc1

ecureilx said:


> In Philippines, going by Manila trend, a 200 peso metered fare can escalate to 1000 peso or more ...
> 
> Airport taxi metered, for example, about 300 peso
> 
> When the taxis vanish along comes touts offering limousine for 3000 or more for same distance
> 
> In comparison engaging a travel agency pick up to hotel costs me a fixed sum of 1000 peso!!!


Europcar to a local Manila hotel is 600P. Book it online before you leave your home country. Their stand is outside all the terminals. I've always booked prior but assume you can walk up.


----------



## jon1

dhream said:


> Hi Don & All on the thread,
> 
> Could you define 'high' prices? I recall a similar thread about airport taxis in Chiang Mai being branded expensive. Then someone pointed out that the flame war was over US$5-8 dollars max! To go to the airport -from anywhere in Thailand's second largest city!
> 
> I myself, once a spendthrift to ruinous excess, have become one of those cheap charlies in Chiang Mai.
> 
> Cheers D.


Taxis in the Freeport can cost between 250-300p ($5.5-6.5). Which add up quick. There is a service called "Winstar" which is an unairconditioned L300 that comes by every 30 minutes for 20p. Not really conducive for grocery shopping. A vehicle is a must have in the Freeport.


----------



## jon1

dhream said:


> I'd rather not even have had to think about it, the sidearm. For someone who had a casual approach to life and death at nineteen, or maybe because of it, I am now very squeamish about violence and violent crime in my mature years... so I was serious, but it was fear, not macho-ness, that prompted my question, this place sounds pretty darn scary TBH. It must take some adjusting to, but then again, if you lived in Miami or Chicago... maybe not. I'm seriously disillusioned at the number of posts I have read today alone about crime and scammers from people with whom I normally would expect mutual respect and trust (landlords).



i believe that you can carry pepper spray legally. I have seen it for sale at a local store (can't remember the price). I bought my wife and sister in law some when we were in the states (cost $20 for 2).


----------



## jon1

An update on Internet plans prices; You can now get 3MB DSL for 1999p plus 600 for landline. They have recently installed Fiber to the houses so you can opt for that and get 8MB+. It is pricey, starting at 4000p. Since they upgraded the Fiber and backbone, I have been able to get 6MB sometimes (burst speeds) on my DSL. Aside from the Typhoon, I have not had any outages. They also offer to bundle TV in that which is very high in price. 

Globe has recently moved into the Freeport and I believe that is the factor in the competitive prices and bandwidth.


----------



## simonsays

jon1 said:


> i believe that you can carry pepper spray legally. I have seen it for sale at a local store (can't remember the price). I bought my wife and sister in law some when we were in the states (cost $20 for 2).


I am pretty sure the hidden and obscure rules that govern foreigners stay will somewhere say any offensive weapon is not to be in the possession of foreigners

And that would include Pepper spray too

Just my 2 cents, carrying a pepper spray is the same as the proverbial 'bringing a knife to a gun fight ... '

Avoidence is the key to survival ..


----------



## dhream

ecureilx said:


> I am pretty sure the hidden and obscure rules that govern foreigners stay will somewhere say any offensive weapon is not to be in the possession of foreigners
> 
> And that would include Pepper spray too
> 
> Just my 2 cents, carrying a pepper spray is the same as the proverbial 'bringing a knife to a gun fight ... '
> 
> Avoidence is the key to survival ..


I'm not a pro-weapons guy, but the stories on this site are bone-chilling, another PI resident PM'd to say it was not all bad and some of you guys tend to focus on the negative...

However, the OP, Ryan, also had problems with feeling unsafe almost as soon as he arrived, and that is telling. I have been all over the place in Thailand, and only felt unsafe once, in BKK in a slum after midnight, no, don't ask... also, I was not openly menaced in the slum, people were gawking, but I did feel I could have easily been rolled, or simply 'disappeared'... I was with a local, and all ended well, the point being, that if that is my appetite for risk, and you guys have spooked me, well, maybe the avoidance I need to practice is to stay away from PI.

As I said, someone from a larger US city may find the level of crime and risk acceptable. I don't. There are other factors my few days of diligence have uncovered. While corruption and other racist hassles (price gouging is racist) are endemic is asia, these guys seem even more relentless than the Thais, which is odd, since to some extent, they share heritage with the west, maybe we taught them! haha..

I don't have the energy to count teaspoons and launch a federal case every time I rent a condo, it's ridiculous!

Anyway, I appreciate all the contributions, PI definitely want to tackle crime in a concerted effort, to get me to look again...

peace out!


----------



## simonsays

dhream said:


> Anyway, I appreciate all the contributions, PI definitely want to tackle crime in a concerted effort, to get me to look again...
> 
> peace out!


My 2 cents says man may colonise the moon before that happens


----------



## richardsinger

dhream said:


> Hi Don & All on the thread,
> 
> Could you define 'high' prices? I recall a similar thread about airport taxis in Chiang Mai being branded expensive. Then someone pointed out that the flame war was over US$5-8 dollars max! To go to the airport -from anywhere in Thailand's second largest city!
> 
> I myself, once a spendthrift to ruinous excess, have become one of those cheap charlies in Chiang Mai.
> 
> Cheers D.


When I have to fly, I usually travel to Manila by bus and then take a taxi to the airport. Going to the airport by metered taxi from the bus stop is around 200 pesos, but the return direction is maybe 700 or 800 pesos for a normal taxi (van type is much higher). It's a total ripoff, but unless you can get a friend to pick you up, you just have to pay it.

Richard


----------



## Gary D

richardsinger said:


> When I have to fly, I usually travel to Manila by bus and then take a taxi to the airport. Going to the airport by metered taxi from the bus stop is around 200 pesos, but the return direction is maybe 700 or 800 pesos for a normal taxi (van type is much higher). It's a total ripoff, but unless you can get a friend to pick you up, you just have to pay it.
> 
> Richard


Shuttle bus to the Genesis bus terminal on EDSA in Pasay (Rotunda) is 30 pesos.


----------



## richardsinger

Gary D said:


> Shuttle bus to the Genesis bus terminal on EDSA in Pasay (Rotunda) is 30 pesos.


Gary I've never seen this shuttle bus and would love to use it. Where exactly does it pick up passengers? I'm flying to Boracay next week and will seek it out on my return.

Richard


----------



## Gary D

richardsinger said:


> Gary I've never seen this shuttle bus and would love to use it. Where exactly does it pick up passengers? I'm flying to Boracay next week and will seek it out on my return.
> 
> Richard


From the EDSA end it's no problem as just ask a security guard and they'll point you to it. From the other end I've only used it from terminal 3, (Cebu Pacific). They park up just across the road from the terminal doors on the access road between the carpark and the terminal road. I'm sure from any terminal someone should be able to give directions. I beleive from NAIA you need to walk to the end of the terminal building, but don't quote me on it.


----------



## richardsinger

Thanks Gary!


----------



## cvgtpc1

You guys are a lot more adventurous than I. I may be kuriput otherwise but when it comes to airport transport I really like having a car waiting.


----------



## simonsays

cvgtpc1 said:


> You guys are a lot more adventurous than I. I may be kuriput otherwise but when it comes to airport transport I really like having a car waiting.


after having a hair raising moment of a highway near-hold up, I stopped taking busses and such in Manila or anywhere, except in Baguio !!! or in the mountain area

A meter Taxi it is, or travel agency advanced book van, to the bus terminal in Pasay !

I guess I may be tempted if I travel very light, but not with a piece or two of luggage.


----------



## richardsinger

I tend to take a cue from my local friends. So if they are comfortable to take the bus from Batangas to Manila I am happy to go along with that. So far, in 4 years, I haven't seen any problems. Which is just as well, since there are no taxis available in Batangas province (as far as I can see).

I did take a taxi from the airport all the way to Lipa City once, but the driver started renegotiating the price once we were halfway so that wasn't a very good experience.


----------



## cvgtpc1

richardsinger said:


> I tend to take a cue from my local friends. So if they are comfortable to take the bus from Batangas to Manila I am happy to go along with that. So far, in 4 years, I haven't seen any problems. Which is just as well, since there are no taxis available in Batangas province (as far as I can see).
> 
> I did take a taxi from the airport all the way to Lipa City once, but the driver started renegotiating the price once we were halfway so that wasn't a very good experience.


Yeah, if I did the trip with a person in the know to show me the ropes first I'd feel a lot more comfortable.

Why I like the Europcar experience. Pay at the airport desk and you're done. Can even use a credit card. I have arranged pick up at the house and done cash then with the driver but he'll have a receipt and it's the price they emailed you.


----------



## simonsays

richardsinger said:


> I tend to take a cue from my local friends. So if they are comfortable to take the bus from Batangas to Manila I am happy to go along with that. So far, in 4 years, I haven't seen any problems. Which is just as well, since there are no taxis available in Batangas province (as far as I can see).
> 
> I did take a taxi from the airport all the way to Lipa City once, but the driver started renegotiating the price once we were halfway so that wasn't a very good experience.


I may have not been clear

I have no qualms taking a "NON-STOP" bus from Baguio or anywhere, to Manila, or vice versa

I avoid busses that stop, as every stop has people getting in/out and vendors also selling this and that and occasionally grabbing stuff before jumping off

I would never take a bus WITHIN Manila .. that's my own personal decision based on my Manila friend's experiences in robberies/pick-pockets and hold ups, one too many to count .. 

Long distance non-stop busses haven't been in the news for hold ups, but those which stop at every city or town have numerous incidents !


----------



## Gary D

The shuttle bus goes between the bus station and airport terminals. It doesn't stop to pick up casual passingers.


----------



## simonsays

Gary D said:


> The shuttle bus goes between the bus station and airport terminals. It doesn't stop to pick up casual passingers.


 Shoulde check it then

My transit is by Victory Liner Pasay or Cubao though

I can switch to Joy Bus!!


----------



## fredsmith

I want to chime in regarding people who seem concerned about safety. First of all you are probably going to be safer from violent crime in the PI then you will in the western world where you came from. Any talk of anything that would lead you to believe otherwise is false. You hear about violent incidents towards foreigners for one simple reason. Because it's rare. So when it happens it becomes news. 

The vast majority of crime people are referring to in the PI is petty crime. Most of that is pickpocketing. There is a lot of pickpocketing. That's the only type of crime you should stay aware of. It's almost never violent. As soon as the people realize you are aware of them they almost always just run away. 

There are very simple common sense things you can do to protect yourself from pickpockets. Never put anything of value in your back pockets. Never tuck in shirts so they hang over your pockets. Never ever wear anything of value. NEVER! No expensive watches. No gold necklaces. No jewelery. Never ever! Simple as that.

Relax and enjoy. Do not worry about safety. If anyone here is making you paranoid about it don't listen to them. I went through the same thing reading all these stories. Then I went to the PI and realized I was worrying over NOTHING! Then I got angry at these people on these forums because it turned out to be a distortion. I don't know what their motivation is but properly informing people is apparently not one of them.

To the guy saying he doesn't take buses because he is worried about bandits lol(extremely rare btw). You think the sight of a meter taxi on a country road with you all alone in the back is going to make you safer? Lol.


----------



## cvgtpc1

fredsmith said:


> I want to chime in regarding people who seem concerned about safety. First of all you are probably going to be safer from violent crime in the PI then you will in the western world where you came from. Any talk of anything that would lead you to believe otherwise is false. You hear about violent incidents towards foreigners for one simple reason. Because it's rare. So when it happens it becomes news.


I also don't have much fear in the PI but violence does happen fairly often to foreigners. Read the last couple years of Harry the Horse newsletters.

Granted being mostly about Angeles City the stats can be skewed considering the various elements drawn to Angeles, but crime against expats being rare isn't true imo.


----------



## simonsays

fredsmith said:


> . You hear about violent incidents towards foreigners for one simple reason. Because it's rare. So when it happens it becomes news.


I dunno where in Philippines you live in, but in Luzon alone a handful of murders I personally know never made it to the news and those, including a close friend's business partner who was shot at his home - was news for one day and then forgotten, and last year alone it was 4 fellows I know or had friends who knew them.

Locally a few murders get classified as 'he saw it coming' or Philippines Finest tagged it as 'love gone bad' and then nobody cares

Even the murder caught on camera of the US Embassy Marine (or was he attached in some other capacity??) Lost its steam.

After all the laws are full of loopholes and you hear incredible defense motions and soon the case gets forgotten

Like in the murder caught on camera the defence demanded the video be proven authentic ..etc etc

And in the case of the Taiwan fisherman shot dead, the defence asked for the case to be dismissed as the defendants never saw the dead body = nobody died = no case

Yep, such is the lawyers talented here ..

And the judges know whose side to take, in cases involving foreigners, lest they too get knocked off and they will adjourn the case for years till the prosecution runs out of money or the witnesses disappear .. no witness, no case.

As for highway robberies as recent as two months ago a victory liner bus was held up and passengers relieved of their valuables. I guess in your opinion that didn't happen.

I take bus, but those non-stop busses for long distance, and avoid bus within Manila specially! Outside areas are reasonably safe

That's my 2 cents, not painting a sad picture nor am I white washing it

PS, a few months ago up in the mountain a couple of NPA folks were killed, and a Army fellow was air lifted .. that too didn't see the news ... that's Philippines! Serious bad news tends to be down played!!!


----------



## fredsmith

So a couple people chimed in and said not true I know about this thing I read and that thing I read. I personally know this and that blah blah.

I can't say that about living where I am in what is considered a very nice safe area. You know why? Because there are stories every day. No way to keep track. Every day someone is robbed or worse or there is a road rage incident or whatever and when it happens it makes the news. This is in a very safe desireable smaller city in North America.

It's all relative. the PI has 3x the population of Canada in 1/30 the land area. 

Murder rate per 100,000 is 8.8 in the PI, Thailand is 5.0, US is 4.7, Canada is 1.6. It's not letting me post the source link but just google it and go the the wikipedia link.

The vast majority of those murders are Filipinos killing each other. So it's really not all that bad imho considering how many people they have crammed into such a small area and considering the poverty.

You want unsafe? Go to Honduras, Venezuela, or Belize. 90.4, 53.7, 52.6 respectively! Lots and lots of expats living in Belize btw.

So hide in your condo in Toronto or NY or London or wherever freezing your a** off 8months of the year because you think the world is just too scary a place or don't. Up to you.


----------



## Asian Spirit

fredsmith said:


> I want to chime in regarding people who seem concerned about safety. First of all you are probably going to be safer from violent crime in the PI then you will in the western world where you came from. Any talk of anything that would lead you to believe otherwise is false. You hear about violent incidents towards foreigners for one simple reason. Because it's rare. So when it happens it becomes news.
> 
> The vast majority of crime people are referring to in the PI is petty crime. Most of that is pickpocketing. There is a lot of pickpocketing. That's the only type of crime you should stay aware of. It's almost never violent. As soon as the people realize you are aware of them they almost always just run away.
> 
> There are very simple common sense things you can do to protect yourself from pickpockets. Never put anything of value in your back pockets. Never tuck in shirts so they hang over your pockets. Never ever wear anything of value. NEVER! No expensive watches. No gold necklaces. No jewelery. Never ever! Simple as that.
> 
> Relax and enjoy. Do not worry about safety. If anyone here is making you paranoid about it don't listen to them. I went through the same thing reading all these stories. Then I went to the PI and realized I was worrying over NOTHING! Then I got angry at these people on these forums because it turned out to be a distortion. I don't know what their motivation is but properly informing people is apparently not one of them.
> 
> To the guy saying he doesn't take buses because he is worried about bandits lol(extremely rare btw). You think the sight of a meter taxi on a country road with you all alone in the back is going to make you safer? Lol.


Curious -- considering you are not here in country now, how much time do you spend here each year? How long have you lived here?

While most of us as expats do not experience crime, it is a common occurrence. This is due mainly to do some being careless about safety issues, we are highly noticeable/visible, and locals "assume" we are wealthy. Another factor in crime against foreign expats and visitors is that the locals go about it in ways that are unusual and catch us off guard.

With those things in mind we are a natural target for all types of crime and to suggest otherwise is folly and inviting crime and safety issues.

With all due respect; living/visiting here without taking ample precautions for personal safety and crime prevention is exceedingly risky and even dangerous. 
Best of luck in spending time here - you will need it..


----------



## fredsmith

Jet Lag said:


> Curious -- considering you are not here in country now, how much time do you spend here each year? How long have you lived here?
> 
> While most of us as expats do not experience crime, it is a common occurrence. This is due mainly to do some being careless about safety issues, we are highly noticeable/visible, and locals "assume" we are wealthy. Another factor in crime against foreign expats and visitors is that the locals go about it in ways that are unusual and catch us off guard.
> 
> With those things in mind we are a natural target for all types of crime and to suggest otherwise is folly and inviting crime and safety issues.
> 
> With all due respect; living/visiting here without taking ample precautions for personal safety and crime prevention is exceedingly risky and even dangerous.
> Best of luck in spending time here - you will need it..



I will need it....booga booga! I've lived for several years in Thailand and now will be moving to the PI after having spend some time there. 

I read lots of posts about how Thailand is becoming so very very dangerous now from people supposedly living there and just laugh. There was one story that made big international news recently about 2 backbackers killed on Koh Tao island and now everyone thinks Thailand is dangerous....lol.

Yep, so very dangerous...stay away...booga booga booga.

Like I said definitely a lot of petty crime in PI compared to Thailand and most of that is picketpockets. Had people try to pick my pockets a few times. Mostly in Manila. I acknowledge that. As far as the other stuff. Hyperbole! There is bad stuff happening every day everywhere. If all you do is read about all the bad stuff happening everywhere you will become a frightened little bunny rabbit scared to ever leave your house.

If you have no street sense then you can get yourself into a lot of trouble in any 3rd world country. Most of the time those are the types of people you read about. Usually you only read about one side of the story though. How they were just sitting there minding their own business or whatever. Sometimes you hear the other side where they were acting like a drunken idiot treating the locals bad and flashing around money or whatever. Seen it hundreds of times. 

Frankly people like that have no business going anywhere besides disneyworld if they want to see the world and should not be allowed to own passports. For the rest of us, With a little common sense and street sense you are quite safe in the PI imho. As long as you understand the fundamental difference between living in the 3rd world and the 1st world. The fact life is a lot cheaper and the way foreigners are viewed.


----------



## Manitoba

Jet Lag said:


> '''''
> 
> With all due respect; living/visiting here without taking ample precautions for personal safety and crime prevention is exceedingly risky and even dangerous.
> .....


With all due respect; living/visiting *anywhere *without taking ample precautions for personal safety and crime prevention is exceedingly risky and even dangerous.


----------



## simonsays

fredsmith said:


> So a couple people chimed in and said not true I know about this thing I read and that thing I read. I personally know this and that blah blah.


Thanks for the compliments .. well, not gonna spend time how or where I get the information .. it is not a he said-she said !!



> The vast majority of those murders are Filipinos killing each other. So it's really not all that bad imho considering how many people they have crammed into such a small area and considering the poverty.


Crammed into a small area ? Really ? oh .. ho .. there are 7107 Islands that has disbursed the living souls, except Manila-that can be called congested .. 



> You want unsafe? Go to Honduras, Venezuela, or Belize. 90.4, 53.7, 52.6 respectively! Lots and lots of expats living in Belize btw.


You also forgot Angola, Congo, Ethiopia, Somalia, Nigeria .. Liberia .. Afghanistan .. 



> So hide in your condo in Toronto or NY or London or wherever freezing your a$$ off 8months of the year because you think the world is just too scary a place or don't. Up to you.


you see, the point I was trying to make is simple

Relatively, in Asia, Philippines is at the bottom in terms of law and order, or preserving the peace



fredsmith said:


> Like I said definitely a lot of petty crime in PI compared to Thailand and most of that is picketpockets.


Interesting .. that you knew that ...



fredsmith said:


> How they were just sitting there minding their own business or whatever. Sometimes you hear the other side where they were acting like a drunken idiot treating the locals bad and flashing around money or whatever. Seen it hundreds of times.


Drunken sailors provoking the natives may be a common thing in Thailand, but that's not an everyday thing in Philippines

there are enough places, any time a foreigner walks in alone, a dozen kids/men and all will start following you, or take a keen interest in you

And even if you are not alone, that wont stop a few, especially in Manila, from walking alongside you and sizing you .. 

ah, there are enough jobless men looking to make a few peso, and poverty runs rampant in places !



> The fact life is a lot cheaper and the way foreigners are viewed.


the natives have been engaging in blood sports for long time, and even ended Magellan's life !

Not here to say things are scary, but .. things aren't so rosy as you are harping on

I wish you luck, and a little tip I heard from a Filipino, who is into Muai Thai - when it comes to foreigners who are bigger, it is better to beat them harder and knock them out, because when bigger guys swing their arms, it can get nasty - put them down at the first chance, and ask questions later - was her note, on handling foreigners

When I asked what if the fellow is innocent, she smiled and said "most foreigners are bad .. "

Cheers, have a great day !!


----------



## Manitoba

fredsmith said:


> Where do you live? How long have you lived there? If the PI why do you continue to live in such a scary dangerous place?


I am not frightened of being here. I have been around the world several times in many countries and not been frightened there. I was not frightened of being in Afghanistan for the last 9 years either.

I took the appropriate safety precautions, just as I did at home and as I do here in the Philippines and everywhere as well.

My point was, and I have made it several times before, that *anywhere* can be dangerous if you do not take proper precautions and exercise due diligence. If you want to call that common sense then go ahead. 

It however is my observation in live that common sense is as uncommon as common courtesy as you amply demonstrated.


----------



## colemanlee

fredsmith said:


> .


So you now live in Thailand? Or do you now live in the Philippines? Excuse the questions, but you seem to have a lot of experience about living here. So hopefully you wont mind if I ask....just how much time do you have living here?


----------



## simonsays

colemanlee said:


> So you now live in Thailand? Or do you now live in the Philippines? Excuse the questions, but you seem to have a lot of experience about living here. So hopefully you wont mind if I ask....just how much time do you have living here?


I am curious to know the answers 

fredsmith: I understand you love Philippines more than anybody, so I do agree .. Philippines is safe






PS, where did I compare PH with Singapore ?? If I compare with Singapore, or expected Singapore standards, I would have never setup shop in Philippines. you should read up more on my writings, than just looking at my current location !

Flaming are we ??


----------



## fredsmith

ecureilx said:


> I am curious to know the answers
> 
> fredsmith: I understand you love Philippines more than anybody, so I do agree .. Philippines is safe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS, where did I compare PH with Singapore ?? If I compare with Singapore, or expected Singapore standards, I would have never setup shop in Philippines. you should read up more on my writings, than just looking at my current location !
> 
> Flaming are we ??


<Snip> How long have you lived there? <Snip> why are you still living in such a dangerous scary place?


----------



## holly1

DonAndAbby said:


> OK, thanks Jon, I will keep this in mind.
> 
> When we walked around Kalayaan, one of the houses we looked at was across the street from a very nice house that had a security guard. I asked the owner of another house we looked at about that, she said that some of the high profile residents hire full time security. I guess it would not be a a bad idea to live next door or across the street from one of them!
> 
> However, the area feels very safe during the daytime and all the houses we looked at had a very safe area for kids to play. There is almost no traffic up there.


I often thought about living in the philippines with my fiance, but she wont go back there to live she is out and staying out she says, 
All the talk of break ins and robbery and having the worry of some one coming into your house at night has put me off as well now. Im 62 now and not very agile so defending my self would be out of the question.
I had no idea it was that dangerous to live there, now i know why she wached me like a hawk when we holidayed there.


----------



## simonsays

fredsmith said:


> <Snip> How long have you lived there? <Snip> why are you still living in such a dangerous scary place?


I have been living in and out for the past 8 years. In Philippines

And why do I live there ?

I don't know you enough to tell you that

Have a Great Day !!!



holly1 said:


> I often thought about living in the philippines with my fiance, but she wont go back there to live she is out and staying out she says,
> All the talk of break ins and robbery and having the worry of some one coming into your house at night has put me off as well now. Im 62 now and not very agile so defending my self would be out of the question.
> I had no idea it was that dangerous to live there, now i know why she wached me like a hawk when we holidayed there.


well, to be honest, as it was explained before, it is bad if you want it to be bad !

The places I have been to and live most of the time, are comparatively safe

Your GF, pardon my words, is a bit OA, from living in a gated community and thinking somebody is gonna kidnap her kids .. to thinking you will be kidnapped.

This is Philippines, and if somebody is gonna 'take' you, they will take you .. regardless of who is watching over you !!! And if somebody is gonna evaporate you, you can't do nothing about it

Then again, you only get kidnapped if a) you live in kidnap central, or b) flaunt your wealth too much or .. c) make company with the wrong crowd, or d) piss the natives too much or e) insist you are somebody who need to be taught a lesson . 

After all, visitors should be that, visitors, unless you hold a Philippines passport, a deportation order is just a step away, and people get deported for trivial stuff, like pissing off a local politico's co-brother's distant cousin's wife !

there is also a f) which is, SH*T does happen !! 

Maybe she has to move out of her gated community and learn to live a simple life - places like Bagiuo, Mountain Province and the likes have very low crime, (if you discount the NPA's action .. )

Fly under the radar and you are safe !!


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## dhream

Hi all, 
I am back looking at the PI again (from Thailand) I know fredsmith has ruffled a few feathers on this thread, but I think his earlier posts resonated with my own thinking and limited (manila) experience. Where I safely walked away from many late nights in areas that might be said to be crime magnets, thus, don't 'victimize' yourself, and accept there is going to be an element of chance involved whatever you do.

It is now clear that there are one or two posters who feel that pressing home the bleaker side of the crime statistics relentlessly is the way to get the message across, and while I respect that, and don't discount their message, it can make living in the PI sound like being an antelope in the Serengeti, rather than a place where crime happens, but smart and unassuming people are usually gonna die from something other than gunshot wound or be robbed blind daily and twice on sunday.

So I want to say thanks to the posters here that have added a little more balance. I agree that it's wise to understand the level of crime in PI, but what people on a forum like this need to get an accurate sense of is this:

Given the undeniably high crime rate: If I move here, and take sensible precautions, (and not live in Manila) am I going to be able to move about most regional cities and town without being in a constant state of combat-readiness? All I want to do is be able to focus on living life happily most of the days, most of the time.

PS: Don't lets fight anymore on this thread, it's bad enough on the streets!


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## Asian Spirit

dhream said:


> Hi all,
> I am back looking at the PI again (from Thailand) I know fredsmith has ruffled a few feathers on this thread, but I think his earlier posts resonated with my own thinking and limited (manila) experience. Where I safely walked away from many late nights in areas that might be said to be crime magnets, thus, don't 'victimize' yourself, and accept there is going to be an element of chance involved whatever you do.
> 
> It is now clear that there are one or two posters who feel that pressing home the bleaker side of the crime statistics relentlessly is the way to get the message across, and while I respect that, and don't discount their message, it can make living in the PI sound like being an antelope in the Serengeti, rather than a place where crime happens, but smart and unassuming people are usually gonna die from something other than gunshot wound or be robbed blind daily and twice on sunday.
> 
> So I want to say thanks to the posters here that have added a little more balance. I agree that it's wise to understand the level of crime in PI, but what people on a forum like this need to get an accurate sense of is this:
> 
> Given the undeniably high crime rate: If I move here, and take sensible precautions, (and not live in Manila) am I going to be able to move about most regional cities and town without being in a constant state of combat-readiness? All I want to do is be able to focus on living life happily most of the days, most of the time.
> 
> PS: Don't lets fight anymore on this thread, it's bad enough on the streets!


Amen to that Bro. While this can be a dangerous place, there are millions of places that are great living and danger is something seen mostly on TV.
Hope you find a good place to drop anchor over this way and really enjoy life..


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## DonAndAbby

This thread was linked in another newer thread, and I re-read it with great interest and a few chuckles! Below are some quotes with updated info below them.



DonAndAbby said:


> OK, thanks Jon, I will keep this in mind.
> 
> When we walked around Kalayaan, one of the houses we looked at was across the street from a very nice house that had a security guard. I asked the owner of another house we looked at about that, she said that some of the high profile residents hire full time security. I guess it would not be a a bad idea to live next door or across the street from one of them!
> 
> However, the area feels very safe during the daytime and all the houses we looked at had a very safe area for kids to play. There is almost no traffic up there.


I've been living in Subic for a bit over 4 years now and Jon was a great help when we moved here. We found a rental house in the Kalayaan neighborhood in April 2013. After about 1.5 years, we found a cheaper house and moved. Guess what? It was across the street from the house with the security guard and we became good friends with him, and his boss. His boss is a female executive and both her husband and her travel a lot, so they hired the security guard for nights only to provide some security for the 3 or 4 fulltime live-in female nannys and maid they employ.

He kept an eye on our place too whenever we were away, and fed our cat! We felt very safe at that house but we wanted to buy a long term lease, and did that in April 2016. That rental house was cheap by Subic standards, 25k, but needed a lot of work.

"Asking" prices for long term leases have been going up a lot, but I don't know what the real prices are. The best way to move here long term is to rent a house while patiently looking for good deal on a long term lease. I bought mine from an Aussie who wanted out, and we have a great property. Huge lot with a lot of room to expand the house at a later date.



jon1 said:


> Don,
> 
> I got this info from people that used to live here when the USN was here and since the turnover. Historically, Kalayaan has been prone to break ins due to it's close proximity to the edge of the base/freeport. I had a conversation with a Kalayaan resident about 2 months ago. He said that his neighbor recently discovered a burglar in his house (middle of the night) and luckily the perp fled w/o any altercation. I have no visibility on the security measures being taken up there (other than the guards at the 2 entrances).
> 
> I would think that some standard security practices would mitigate this. Maybe bar the windows? Install dead bolt locks. Have a small dog that can alert you. Keep the dog inside as burglars love to poison dogs before entering (common method is poisoning an egg). Maybe motion sensor lights would help too. Don't leave tools unsecured that could assist in the break in (saw, machete, ladder, etc.). Having someone in the house most of the time (daytime) I believe is a good idea also. Also, the more random your habits are the less the chance that they can figure out a good time for them to break in.
> 
> Jon


The last time I heard of a break-in in Kalayaan was over three years ago. We have a neighborhood group and we keep in touch with a group e-mail, so we are aware when things happen. The group also has representatives who pursue neighborhood and SBMA issues with the SBMA management. The last big "crime" news was a month ago when 2 construction workers got in a fight.

There were 2 or 3 break-ins in Binictican 5 or 6 months ago. All in the same area and assumed to be carried out by the same person.

We feel very safe here in Kalayaan but take the standard precautions that most take all over the world. 



jon1 said:


> That is where they prey on the new people and tourists. They will also hit you up if you change lanes (cross the solid lines) at the intersections or go straight thru the intersection from a lane marked as turn only. The new stop signs across from the Ayala mall are a favorite target along with rolling stops coming out of the gate from Olongapo...
> 
> Another thing is not using your turn signals. Anywhere else in the freeport you are safe from this harassment... i mean enforcement hehehehe


Actually I love watching the Manila idiots getting pulled over when they pull their Manila stunts! I wish enforcement was even stronger!



jon1 said:


> Taxis in the Freeport can cost between 250-300p ($5.5-6.5). Which add up quick. There is a service called "Winstar" which is an unairconditioned L300 that comes by every 30 minutes for 20p. Not really conducive for grocery shopping. A vehicle is a must have in the Freeport.


Still agree that you should have a car, but a few expats ride the Winstar. Taxi is not quite that high. I have to use one occasionally and I usually pay p150 to get from CBD back to the house.



jon1 said:


> An update on Internet plans prices; You can now get 3MB DSL for 1999p plus 600 for landline. They have recently installed Fiber to the houses so you can opt for that and get 8MB+. It is pricey, starting at 4000p. Since they upgraded the Fiber and backbone, I have been able to get 6MB sometimes (burst speeds) on my DSL. Aside from the Typhoon, I have not had any outages. They also offer to bundle TV in that which is very high in price.
> 
> Globe has recently moved into the Freeport and I believe that is the factor in the competitive prices and bandwidth.


I'm glad to report that this has changed for the better! We have PLDT Fibr here now and for not much more than DSL, we get fantastic service! I pay p3500 a month for 50 MBPS internet, land line and digital TV with over 100 channels, 16 in HD. Well worth it!


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## esv1226

DonAndAbby said:


> This thread was linked in another newer thread, and I re-read it with great interest and a few chuckles! Below are some quotes with updated info below them.
> 
> Actually I love watching the Manila idiots getting pulled over when they pull their Manila stunts!
> 
> I could spot non resident drivers too.
> 
> Taxi is not quite that high. I have to use one occasionally and I usually pay p150 to get from CBD back to the house.
> 
> Rates haven't changed?
> 
> 
> I pay p3500 a month for 50 MBPS internet, land line and digital TV with over 100 channels, 16 in HD. Well worth it!


I don't remember having these many channels. We should subscribe to???

We are returning to Subic next month. We've been in the US for a couple of years so it'll be an adjustment again. This time, we know what to expect. Hopefully adjustment will be easier.

Are there more dealers other than Mitsubishi and Ford? We will be needing a car and would opt for a "new" used car if we could find one. Where do we start? 

Thanks guys!


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## DonAndAbby

esv1226 said:


> I don't remember having these many channels. We should subscribe to???
> 
> We are returning to Subic next month. We've been in the US for a couple of years so it'll be an adjustment again. This time, we know what to expect. Hopefully adjustment will be easier.
> 
> Are there more dealers other than Mitsubishi and Ford? We will be needing a car and would opt for a "new" used car if we could find one. Where do we start?
> 
> Thanks guys!


Your color highlighting didn't work for some reason but I hope I will answer correctly. If not, ask again.

I think you are asking about the cable TV. We used to have Subic Cable for p600 a month but dropped it when we got PLDT FIBR. The FIBR internet package includes the 100+ Cignal digital TV channels + music channels, along with the internet. You can get up to 1 GB ps but it costs a lot more. We pay p3500 +p200 for the Cignal box.

Welcome back! Where do you plan to live? The only recent new downside to the freeport is that it is getting more tourists and traffic, mainly on weekends. There are several new waterpark attractions and a lot of sporting events that bring the crows. Ayala mall parking lot fills up every weekend now.

Right now, still only Ford and Mitsi but Toyota has signs posted that they will open a dealer right at the SCTEX exit. I'm looking for a small car with Toyotas on the top of the list, so that is good news. Toyota also has a new dealer in Bataan, about 40 minutes away. Also, Honda opened a new dealer in Clark that is closer than the one in San Fernando.

Ford and Mitsi do not have used car sales at their Subic locations, so you would have to go to San Fernando. Olongapo has some used cars but not much. OLX online has a few.


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