# Prep for covid



## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

It feels like recently this covid situation is reaching a peak in the area I live. I know quite a few people who have had it. They all seem to get over it pretty easily. Yesterday I spent maybe two hours in a small office at the bank with a young woman who was just returning to work after spending last week at home with covid. At one point another young woman in the next office walked in a said that she also was out last week with covid. Now they have both tested negative. I asked what their symptoms were and they said the worst part was the raspy/sore throat...

I need some woodwork done and mentioned it to the woman who cleans my house once a week. She knows the carpenter and she reports that he has covid at the moment. Today I have an hierro coming by with 2-3 other guys to begin a new project. They will be painting (with a spray gun) all the metal fencing / doors around the house.The hierro has had covid I believe twice now...

I have had my two Pfizer shots as well as the booster. I have also had the flu vaccine.

If I came down with covid I wouldn't even know where to go for treatment. BUT - if I were to self-isolate, what sort of drugs / medicines should I have in the house as preparation ? I have things like aspirin / ibuprofen / paracetamol. I might have some old cough drops etc. But is I were to build a covid care kit what should I put in it ? Thanks.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

paracetamol to feel a little better otherwise if it gets bad you need oxigen and that is usually a condition where a doctor should be consulted and a hospital would probably be the plave to go . Talk to your doctor and ask him where is the place covid patients go.. If you only have flu type symptoms. you need to stay put at home and should have food in the fridge , water and paracetamol. All doctors I have spoken to say no aspirin.
Covod is a weird thing, you get from zero symptoms to flu like symptoms to really serious symptoms that have to be treated in a hospital so frankly good luck on being ready for it. Right now just everyone in my family in France has covid including a 8 month old baby who is in the hospital with high fever and oxigen.. The kids are giving it to all the adults and to other kids and back and forth, it is a nighmare. Stay put wear a good mask stay away from kids and wait it out.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Paracetamol (Tylenol) is what is recommended for Covid, not aspirin or ibuprofen.

As with most illnesses, drink lots of liquids, mainly water.

Vitamin C and zinc.

My all time favorite cure for almost everything is garlic miso soup. I take an entire bulb of garlic, peel the cloves and simmer in about a liter of water. When the garlic is soft, either mash it with a fork or let the mixture cool and put it in the blender. Then add a couple tablespoons of miso (you can heat up a mixture with miso, but high heat destroys its beneficial properties, so just warm up this broth if necessary, don't boil it).

The garlic fights bacteria and viruses, the miso has digestive enzymes and is very nutritious, so it's great if you don't have much of an appetite. Plus this broth is delicious.
I've made this for friends and family who were sick in bed with anything from a stomach bug to full-blown flu and they all said it was like a miracle cure- they all felt better within hours.

Make sure you let someone you can rely on know you are feeling ill, check in with them a couple times a day to let them know you are still alive and okay, and ask them to phone and check on you if they don't hear from you. You should do this even if you don't live alone, as there have been cases where a couple isolating sick at home have suddenly taken a turn for the worse and both been found dead in their home.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I sent you a PM, except you'll have a hard time finding it. It's a 'conversation', click the second icon from the right in the banner at the top, it's probably a big 'M' in a box (mine's a big E, I think it's for eastwind, not an eye chart).


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## Art2write (Jan 8, 2021)

Do consider taking extra precautions and staying out of public places if you’re over 60 years old, or have a condition, as you have a higher risk of developing the disease.

If age is more, you probably feel respiratory issues. If you don't want to go to a hospital, ask someone for medicines who already recovered by using that.

DON’T touch your eyes, nose, and mouth. If you have somehow come into contact with the virus, touching your face can help it enter your body.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> paracetamol to feel a little better otherwise if it gets bad you need oxigen and that is usually a condition where a doctor should be consulted and a hospital would probably be the plave to go . Talk to your doctor and ask him where is the place covid patients go.. If you only have flu type symptoms. you need to stay put at home and should have food in the fridge , water and paracetamol. All doctors I have spoken to say no aspirin.
> Covod is a weird thing, you get from zero symptoms to flu like symptoms to really serious symptoms that have to be treated in a hospital so frankly good luck on being ready for it. Right now just everyone in my family in France has covid including a 8 month old baby who is in the hospital with high fever and oxigen.. The kids are giving it to all the adults and to other kids and back and forth, it is a nighmare. Stay put wear a good mask stay away from kids and wait it out.


Sorry to hear that your family in France is ill with Covid. I feel especially concerned about the baby. Sending my best wishes for a complete recovery for all of them.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

surabi said:


> Paracetamol (Tylenol) is what is recommended for Covid, not aspirin or ibuprofen.
> 
> As with most illnesses, drink lots of liquids, mainly water.
> 
> ...


If Garlic was so great , believe me there would be no problem in Southern France, Spain or Italy.. We make a chiken with 40 cloves in France and still get sick.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes staying put and treating it like a bad flu and isolating is the best you can do. If it gets worse and you cannot breath well go to a covid hospital fast. My brother passed out like 3 hours after feeling he could not breath and never regain consiousness before he was entubed and died.. Have the phone of someone who ca help you handy, have someone you know check on you with instructions to call your doctors .

If you are vaccinated chances are that it will feel like a nasty flu at worse.. just watch out for low oxigene in the blood. buy one of these little meter thingy and do not let yourself go below 90 without a doctor knowing about it.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

cancelled


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

citlali said:


> buy one of these little meter thingy and do not let yourself go below 90 without a doctor knowing about it.


That's something I can agree with. Sorry about your brother. 

It's a shame the official scientific response to getting sick is so much based on faint hope: take Tylenol and hope not to die. If you can't breath, go to the hospital and get a tube stuck down your throat while the virus multiplies until you die. 

And the prevention is so useless too, masks didn't help, isolation measures didn't stop the spread, vaccines don't help to prevent getting sick or transmitting the disease. 

I'm not mischaracterizing the official narrative am I? We were first told that shutting down and flattening the curve for a month would handle the problem, then we were told a vaccine would cure the problem, then we told the vaccine was mostly effective, then we were told it was effective only at keeping you from getting very sick. The US had an election and one of the candidates made promises to Shut Down the Virus, but it's not slowed at all, is it?


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

How would you know if the virus has been slowed or not? Compared to what? A hypothetical?

Masks help. They don't stop transmission dead in it's tracks, but that's not the same thing as saying they don't help at all.

The vaccines have been very effective against most variants, but not this particular one. They haven't stopped transmission dead in its tracks, but that's not the same thing as saying they don't help at all.

= = = = =

Back on the topic of preparedness... I imagine that not being all alone might be the best thing. If you don't have someone who lives right there with you, then identify someone who will go out and buy groceries for you, check up on you every so often, answer the phone even if it's 3am.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

eastwind said:


> That's something I can agree with. Sorry about your brother.
> 
> It's a shame the official scientific response to getting sick is so much based on faint hope: take Tylenol and hope not to die. If you can't breath, go to the hospital and get a tube stuck down your throat while the virus multiplies until you die.
> 
> ...



To be fair it is a new virus and the scientists are trying things they think should work but no one knows.. There was an interesting article written by a German researcher who said everything was done to insurre the virus continued because the only way to stop it was to vaccinate the whole world at once and with all the delays and screw ups and half ass vaccination programs we gave the time to the virus to develop variants and get stronger.. He wrote this a year or so ago and it seems that he may have been right. Just one country doing something means nothing and actually helps the virus..
At this time it looks like good masks may work ok.. not perfect.. vaccine may prevent some deadly cases although not all and that is about it.
Right now France is a disaster..In the district where my family lives 60% f the kids at school are positive and are spreading the virus to families and teachers.. The rate of vaccination is high , the death rate is less than at the beginning but it is spreading like wildfire despite vaccines, isolation and masks.. The majority of death are amongst the non vaccinated but vaccinated people die too..
It looks like they will all get it eventually .. Let´s hope for the best. I know my faily is at 50% right now.and many had covid a year ago ad are vaccinated so the immunity theory does not seem to work neither from covid or from vaccines.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

Actually, the majority of cases seem to be among the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated. I don't mean to start a big argument but we are finding that to be the case at least since the "variants" were named.









Studies show vaccinated people more likely to catch COVID than the unvaccinated - LifeSite


Several European countries have recently reported higher COVID infection rates in ‘fully vaccinated’ people.




www.lifesitenews.com


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> yes staying put and treating it like a bad flu and isolating is the best you can do. If it gets worse and you cannot breath well go to a covid hospital fast. My brother passed out like 3 hours after feeling he could not breath and never regain consiousness before he was entubed and died.. Have the phone of someone who ca help you handy, have someone you know check on you with instructions to call your doctors .
> 
> If you are vaccinated chances are that it will feel like a nasty flu at worse.. just watch out for low oxigene in the blood. buy one of these little meter thingy and do not let yourself go below 90 without a doctor knowing about it.


QEPD tu hermano.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Regarding monitoring the O2 level in the blood... I have this really nifty smartwatch I picked up on Amazon Mexico for 699 pesos. I bought it to measure my blood pressure throughout the day, and it does a good job with that. But it also measures the O2 blood level (I'm at 98 at the moment) as well as my sleep pattern. It downloads all the data to my iphone.

I thought it was a bad situation when I stood on a slow moving line (for eight hours) to get my booster shot a while back. Well I've got to say that is nothing compared to what I am seeing this week around here. There are lines which purportedly stretch 5 km today. And no one follows social distancing. Those people are butted right up to the person in front of them. 

I can appreciate using a mask - although I very rarely use one on my own property - regardless of who is here. Generally speaking visitors always wear a mask. I don't accept gel when it is offered at entries to stores, but I do wash my hands when I return home. One practice I have not noticed anywhere else in the world except Mexico (but I don't travel) are these mats filled with water when you enter some stores. And then there are stores which - even at the earliest hours when there is not another person in sight - take your temperature and then, rather than simply allow you to walk in the door, send you down a 50-100 ft long line only to then return and then enter the store. It is almost like a crude test of a person's physical stamina or something. I just read that a fever is present in about 50% of covid cases...


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Takingiteasy said:


> Actually, the majority of cases seem to be among the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated. I don't mean to start a big argument but we are finding that to be the case at least since the "variants" were named.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LifeSiteNews is a Canadian Catholic far-right anti-abortion advocacy website and news publication. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021, was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation.Wikipedia


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

You're shooting the messenger there. The study was not done by them, they just reported it. Which the MSM social-media-oligarch-approved news media will not, because it doesn't fit the narrative. 

Here's another:









SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.529 (Omicron) Variant — United States...


This report describes the initial spread and impact of the Omicron COVID-19 variant in the U.S.




www.cdc.gov





Let me extract the important line for you:

Among these cases of COVID-19 attributed to the Omicron variant, 34 (79%) occurred in persons who completed the primary series of an FDA-authorized or approved COVID-19 vaccine ≥14 days before symptom onset or receipt of a positive SARS-CoV-2 test result


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

citlali said:


> If Garlic was so great , believe me there would be no problem in Southern France, Spain or Italy.. We make a chiken with 40 cloves in France and still get sick.


Oh I certainly wasn't saying it's going to prevent you from getting Covid or any other disease, but it's definitely an immune booster and it has helped a lot to feel better whenever I or friends or family have been sick.

As far as you saying masks aren't working, or vaccines, or other measures, that isn't true. Current hospitalizations and deaths are overwhelmingly among the unvaccinated. Of course, the higher the rate of vaccination, the more it appears that vaccinated get infected, but that's misleading. If 95% of the population is vaccinated, there is going to be a much higher percentage of vaccinated who get infected than in places where there is only 58% vaccinated, which will show much higher infecttion rates among the unvaxed.

But what you mentioned that doctor said is true- if everyone masked up properly, isolated as much as possible, and were vaccinated, and every country had closed its borders back a year and a half ago, and dealt with all the cases they had, and enforced lockdowns, this thing would have been over long ago. A virus dies out when it has no one to infect.

But throughout this there have been people almost everywhere who have refused to comply with regulations and mandates, and keep going out and spreading it around, so of course it just continues.

And even people who think they are taking precautions sometimes let their guard down, or do unconscious things like adjust their mask by grabbing it with their thumb and finger, putting their thumb on the inside of the mask. If you've just touched something that is contaminated with the virus, you have now transferred it to the inside of the mask and are breathing it in.

I used to pull my mask off when I got out of the supermarket and was loading my groceries in the car, but after having someone unmasked walk by in the parking lot only a couple meters from me, and sneeze heartily, I now wait to take off the mask until I am safely inside my car.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Claim: About 80-90% of those hospitalised with Covid-19 are unvaccinated. (The Economist, 16 Oct 2021)
Fact Check: Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact
Verdict: This used to be true. The figure now is more like 35%.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

eastwind said:


> Claim: About 80-90% of those hospitalised with Covid-19 are unvaccinated. (The Economist, 16 Oct 2021)
> Fact Check: Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact
> Verdict: This used to be true. The figure now is more like 35%.


It's not at all surprising that the effectiveness of vaccines diminishes as new variants evolve. That's completely normal, and I'm confused as to why anybody would have expected different. But, just because Omicron is pretty vaccine-resistant, that doesn't necessarily mean that the next big variant will be as well.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Takingiteasy said:


> Actually, the majority of cases seem to be among the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated. I don't mean to start a big argument but we are finding that to be the case at least since the "variants" were named.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Life Site News is an unreliable source of information: Lifesite News Bias and Reliability - Ad Fontes Media


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

Isla Verde said:


> Life Site News is an unreliable source of information: Lifesite News Bias and Reliability - Ad Fontes Media
> 
> 
> It is fairly easy to learn what an organization supports and reports with their own bias. This organization (Lifesite) is politically and anti-abortion based so it is quick to report any "study" that supports their bias. This is true of many groups on *both *sides of the hot button issues.
> ...


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Mango you could get a test kit and test yourself if you have symptoms to start with knowing that there are lots of false negatve and maybe some false positive.. I say thar because my niece who teaches had to rest herself every day Nd in one weel of test one day only was positive so a little strange.
IT would give yoj an idea if the sympyoms are covid or somethkng else.
The important thing is tl know that nothing is 100% for sure.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Maybe 6-8 months ago I went for my annual lab test at a very credible laboratory. They were offering some flavor of covid test for let's say 400 pesos or so. I said - what the heck - throw that in as well. All I know is that it did not entail a nasal swab and it came back negative. I always have figured there is no preventing picking up covid the day after you are tested. 

Sorry to say but I am getting old. On Friday I carried four heavy steel SCUBA tanks into a dive shop in DF and this morning my chest is a little tight. There is probably 0% chance that the tightness is in anyway related to covid.

In a very large way I live the life of a hermit. Oh sure I have meetings at (say) the bank (which can last hours) but for the most part I'm not rubbing elbows with people at a market or on public transit etc. At one point I read somewhere that the transfer of the virus requires a minimal amount of time exposed to someone with the virus. I think it was in excess of five minutes. I keep that in my mind when I meet someone I don't know...


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

eastwind said:


> Claim: About 80-90% of those hospitalised with Covid-19 are unvaccinated. (The Economist, 16 Oct 2021)
> Fact Check: Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact
> Verdict: This used to be true. The figure now is more like 35%.


Yes, I don't think it matters if the weatherman is biased when he says a storm is coming and can show it on the radar. Likewise, I think its best if we all check the radar, or check the facts ourselves rather than take the word of someone or some company. The major media is very unreliable, imo. That does not mean I laugh when they say a storm is coming but I will check the facts myself.

We have medical people saying the covid is still dangerous and we have medical people saying its not particularly dangerous, that it was never as bad as they claimed and right now it is very mild. So do we just flip a coin to decide what to believe or should we check those "experts" and the studies they claim to base their opinion on? Rather than take the opinion or the word of cnn, fauci, the president, or someone on a forum, we should check the facts ourselves as best we can

Robert Malone invented the pcr test and is perhaps the most highly regarded in his field. He does not believe in the covid vaccine. Here is his site with his credentials and he tells you what he thinks. You can find left wing sites that will sneer at him because they believe fauci or the guy on the news. I can give links to many other doctors and scientists if anyone is interested Robert W Malone MD


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> Life Site News is an unreliable source of information: Lifesite News Bias and Reliability - Ad Fontes Media


It's part of science to have debates and diverse findings and results, and "settled science" is an oxymoron. Only listening to the authorities or those with the loudest voice (e.g. social media tycoons) results in not hearing the Isaac Newton's who claim the world is round when the authorities are certain it's flat.


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

Doing your own "research" and relying on your own interpretation of same? Robert Malone claims to be the inventor of the mRNA vaccine, not the PCR test. There is no single inventor of the mRNA vaccine. The inventor if the PCR test died in August, 2019, so would not have commented on the reality of COVID 19.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

Anne, you are correct, I went from memory rather than double checking. He is the inventor of the mRNA vaccine, not the test. 

Eastwind, you are of course correct



> "settled science" is an oxymoron


Science is never settled, a theory may be the most highly regarded and have more evidence behind it such as einstiens theory of relativity. But it is not called "settled science" and they don't tell you to believe it without checking it for yourself. When someone like fauci tells us he is science and if you don't agree with him it means you don't believe in science, that simply means he is a liar or an idiot. I suspect he will go to prison before long but that is a side issue.

"Dr" fauci is no doctor, he treats no patients, he is a beaurocrat. Dr Malone is a real doctor and scientist. He is not the only one saying this but he is probably the most well credentialed. Fauci has been caught lying to congress under oath.

And as has been already proven, the vaxxed are the ones coming down with covid much more so than unvaxxed. We can discuss that again if you like. There is lots of evidence out there but if no one wants to look at the evidence then ok no point in digging it up and posting it here


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Takingiteasy said:


> And as has been already proven, the vaxxed are the ones coming down with covid much more so than unvaxxed.


That's total BS. Absolutely false. Go peddle your nonsense on your right wing conspiracy forums.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

surabi said:


> That's total BS. Absolutely false. Go peddle your nonsense on your right wing conspiracy forums.


Is that how you discuss things, surabi, by insulting the other person? We have given links to scientific articles and studies. Dr Robert Malone the inventor of the very same mRNA treatment used to make the so called vaccines also agrees with us and is against your point of view. That is far from nonsense or a conspiracy

I realize that people do not like to learn that what they were told by the authorities was not true or was incorrect in a major way. Even more so when they have taken a treatment and are told later that it may have bad effects on their health and may provide no protection, they do not easily accept that as a fact. Much easier to deny it and call people names who try to bring it to your attention. You want to reassure yourself that you did not make a major mistake.

It may be that this subject is too emotional and controversial to be discussed on this board. Perhaps its better to wait until there is even more evidence? I am sticking my neck out knowing I will be attacked by a few in hopes that others will be persuaded not to take the booster or not take the original shots.

I don't want to upset anyone, I'm sure surabi was not the only one upset to hear this news. I have said my piece, no need to keep banging the same drum. If someone wants to discuss some article or subject fine, but I will not bring it up first.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

eastwind said:


> It's part of science to have debates and diverse findings and results, and "settled science" is an oxymoron. Only listening to the authorities or those with the loudest voice (e.g. social media tycoons) results in not hearing the Isaac Newton's who claim the world is round when the authorities are certain it's flat.


Huh? Isaac Newton didn't claim that the world was round.

In fact, he claimed that the world was _*not*_ perfectly spherical. And, in point of fact, the work in which he claimed it (Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, Book III, "De mundi systemate") was derided by many mathematicians of his day as having a bunch of holes in the math and science: too many unsubstantiated assertions, too many claims based on analogy, statements that went beyond the scope of the supporting data, etc.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

whatever, it's an analogy. point remains.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

kphoger said:


> Huh? Isaac Newton didn't claim that the world was round.
> 
> In fact, he claimed that the world was _*not*_ perfectly spherical. And, in point of fact, the work in which he claimed it (Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, Book III, "De mundi systemate") was derided by many mathematicians of his day as having a bunch of holes in the math and science: too many unsubstantiated assertions, too many claims based on analogy, statements that went beyond the scope of the supporting data, etc.


Eastwind said "the Isaac Newton's who claim..." he did not say the original isaac newton, he was referering to the brilliant scientists of today I believe. 

This is fine, lets look at the evidence and the data. If a claim is incorrect like saying aspirin cures covid then we look at the evidence or lack of it and say no it does not seem to do that. On the other hand if something is well backed by data, then its worth taking seriously. I don't want to be like the mythical ostrich with my head in the sand while the world goes on around me

Does anyone doubt that ivermectin is a valid treatment? It should not upset anyone to talk about that, I would think. We have loads of evidence that it is, including the states of brazil and mexico, just going by memory, which gave it out to everyone and they found that deaths fell dramatically. I will post some links and quotes if someone wants to talk about that


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

But it gets at what you consider "the authorities".

I'm assuming you were probably sort of


eastwind said:


> whatever, it's an analogy. point remains.


But it gets at what you consider "the authorities".

I'm assuming you were probably sort of thinking of Galileo having his work shut down by the Roman Catholic church for proposing that the earth revolved around the sun and not vice versa.

What people like to overlook is that geocentrism _*was*_ the prevailing scientific consensus. The Church financially supported Galileo's work. Because heliocentrism ran contrary to a strictly literal interpretation of certain Bible verses, he was cautioned to publish his work as only a hypothesis, and to also acknowledge the shortcomings of his theories. He didn't. When the Inquisition became involved, they deferred to a priest/scientist to analyze Galileo's claims on both theological and scientific grounds. That man, Ingoli, was also a lawyer and a professor, had already published two essays on astronomy, and was considered an expert in the field. He identified 22 points of dispute with Galileo's positions, but only four of them were theological in nature; the other eighteen were scientific disputes. Galileo never even responded—well, not until eight years later, by which time it was kind of pointless.

Not having received any response from Galileo to Ingoli's disputes, the Inquisition then turned to a council of non-scientific theologians to weigh in. That council unanimously ruled that heliocentrism ran afoul of established Church interpretation of the Bible. The Pope, however—even though he personally held the majority (geocentrist) opinion—assured Galileo that he was safe to proceed with his work. At this point, the course of events could have taken a different turn. There might have ensued a healthy debate within the Church about how to interpret the Bible when new scientific discoveries appear to contradict it. From the Church's perspective, the burden was upon Galileo to overcome the majority consensus and prove heliocentrism—not upon the majority to prove geocentrism—at which point there could begin real dialogue. Galileo, however, never really attempted to defend his positions against scientific objection, and he essentially told the Church that they were interpreting the Bible wrong.

Still within the good graces of Pope after Pope, Galileo then published a work ("Dialogue") in which the majority opinion was embodied in a character named Simplicio—a buffoon who lacked any sense of logic, who insisted on using only the "standard" arguments, who was ridiculed as stupid by the other characters, and whose name could be translated as "Simpleton". Galileo probably didn't intend this to be a direct dig at the Pope, who personally held that majority opinion, but that's how it came to be seen in the Pope's eyes anyway. As such Galileo lost his main source of support within the Church, the Inquisition sentenced him to imprisonment, and he remained under house arrest at his villa for the rest of his life.

My point in all of this is that Galileo shouldered just as much responsibility for what happened as did the Church. He refused to answer genuine scientific rebuttals to his assertions. His arguments had holes in them that he refused to acknowledge. He put forth as settled facts that which would not be supported by evidence until hundreds of years later. He chose ridicule and obstinacy over dialogue and humility. He made enemies of scientists and theologians alike. It's little wonder that the Church dug its heels in and acted the way it did. In all honesty, Galileo was just as closed-minded as they were.

As for the matter at hand, let us take a lesson from it all. Let neither side of the debate resort to calling the other side stupid or illogical or lemmings who blindly follow their favorite talking head on YouTube. Let us instead look at the things actually being said and evaluate them on their own terms. Dispute science with science. Be specific.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Takingiteasy said:


> Is that how you discuss things, surabi, by insulting the other person?


I don't try to "discuss" things with people who promote falsehoods, and who are responsible for continuing to spread a deadly disease around. I am thoroughly disgusted by you and your ilk.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

surabi said:


> I don't try to "discuss" things with people who promote falsehoods, and who are responsible for continuing to spread a deadly disease around. I am thoroughly disgusted by you and your ilk.


I too am disgusted by people who spread falsehoods. I happen to think you are one of them. You have decided to believe a certain narrative, obviously without doing any due diligence to see if the majority of scientists believe what you were told in the media. Someone who does that certainly wants to be lead around and told what to think by authorities. 

Its also false what you said about unvaxxed spreading the disease. Its been shown that the vaxxed are more likely to catch it and to spread it. We could look at the data, but those like you will never discuss facts, only spew insults and emotion when they encounter information going against their beliefs. You may be trying to goad me into an exchange of name calling but I will not descend to your level. Since facts and honest debate might not be something you are into, perhaps direct your posts to someone who appreciates them?


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

The vast majority of reputable scientists do not concur with Malone or with the conspiracy theories you present as fact. Although I prefer not to engage in name calling, I agree that it is impossible to engage in discussion when one side's "facts" are falsehoods. I wish this thread could be closed as it has strayed far from the OP's question. Regardless of whether dangerous misinformation is being spread which would have been banned from other social media, the discussion does not seem to be focused on Mexico.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

Well, Anne, at least you didn't lower yourself to hurling insults and you did make a statement about facts you believe. Are you willing to discuss your claim that the "vast majority" of scientists agree with the shot, quarantines, masks etc and disagree with malone? I believe I can show that happens to not be true but if many people on the forum are going to be offended by views different than their own, then perhaps you are correct and we should drop the subject? 

The original topic was prep for covid. I gave recommendations for easily obtained drugs such as ivermectin which have been shown to be effective against covid and other viruses. We can discuss that fact. It is a fact mexico is giving it out to the citizens and the govt believes it works. S korea too and some other countries have turned to ivermectin and also hydrochloroquin with excellent results. Vid D, preferable d3 and zinc help to ward off the disease in the first place. Are these the things you wanted to discuss?


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

No, I am not willing to enter into discussion with you.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

One specific thing that is scientifically squirrelly is the efficacy of face masks against the spread of the virus. Everyone, government agencies included, makes blanket statements like _Masks prevent the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19_ or whatever. However, good scientific studies analyzing the actual extent to which those statements are true have been in short supply. Perhaps the largest-scale real-world study was conducted in Bangladesh, where it was found that three-layer surgical masks reduced the spread of the coronavirus by 95% and cloth masks (two layers of fabric with polypropylene on the outside) by 37%. However, despite those numbers, the actual spread of COVID-19 in villages where surgical masks were worn was only 11% lower than mask-less villages, and it was only 5% lower in villages where cloth masks were worn. That is to say, what laboratory studies find to be true doesn't necessarily carry over into the real world.

Other real-world studies have shown greater efficacy of mask use, but they tend to focus on situations in which people are in close proximity for longer periods of time—such as in schools, on airplanes, aboard an aircraft carrier, within a household, and even vague things like self-reported "high-risk exposures". It might therefore be reasonably concluded that wearing masks in situations of merely incidental proximity likely has little effect on the spread of COVID-19.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Takingiteasy said:


> Its also false what you said about unvaxxed spreading the disease. Its been shown that the vaxxed are more likely to catch it and to spread it


Shown where? Endlessly repeating falsehoods does not make them credible.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AnneLM said:


> The vast majority of reputable scientists do not concur with Malone or with the conspiracy theories you present as fact. Although I prefer not to engage in name calling, I agree that it is impossible to engage in discussion when one side's "facts" are falsehoods. I wish this thread could be closed as it has strayed far from the OP's question. Regardless of whether dangerous misinformation is being spread which would have been banned from other social media, the discussion does not seem to be focused on Mexico.


This thread will be closed as soon as I finish typing this message. In future, any forum member who wishes to spread false information about Covid-19 and how best to deal with it will be banned. ¡He dicho!


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