# Selling a property with tenants in it?



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I've had "issues" with the owners of the house I'm renting here, which I have posted about before. they initially wanted us to leave for the summer - firstly they said it was because they'd sold it, then they said it was because the wanted to be here for the summer - anyway, our contract states quite clearly that we can stay here until beginning October as long as we adhere to all the clauses - which we do.

For the last couple of weeks, the letting agent has been asking to allow people to look around the house with a view to buy it (we knew it was on the market). I have reluctantly agreed to it as long as I can be present and I'm given due notice! But its getting more and more frequent, we've had three in the last two weeks.

Tonight, when just the children were here and I was at work, the agent phoned and TOLD the kids that she'd be round with potential buyers within half an hour!! I had to get a friend (thanks Natalie) to come to stop these people marching in the house (the kids were a bit intimidated). The Letting agent then phoned me saying that she had arranged this viewing this morning and had tried to let me know, but I wasnt in, so she couldnt get my permission. She was really quite angry - anyway, we've had "words"!! I'm not sure where I stand with all this though?? I assume that I dont even have to let her show people round, I assume that should any of these people want to buy it, they'll either have to wait for us to go in October or pay us to leave early ?????? Its all getting very uncomfortable now!

Any words of wisdom???

Jo xxx


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## mrnkar (Feb 25, 2011)

If I were you I would let her know that you have to be given more notice for buyers to view or refuse all together. Your contract is for 11 months and they don't have any rights unless it is stated in the contract but if I remember from your other posts, it isn't. I feel they could also even let on the house has sold, again to get you out before summer, judging by what they are doing at the moment. What would have happened if no one had been at home. If they have keys they could have entered the house without your knowledge as they had already arranged the viewing. I know that when my rental in my first apartment was coming to an end the agents asked if it was ok to show people around it but they always phoned and ask me when it would be suitable. Stick to your guns & show them who boss.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

absolutely jojo

I think that since you know it's on the market then you probably do have to let them show it -or did you not know when you first rented it?

if you are going to let them show it, then tell them you want at least 24 hours notice - I'm sure the agent has your e-mail & mobile number so there is no way they couldn't get hold of you

if you think they might go in when you're not there, get the locks changed - you'd probably only have to change one door - the others could I'm sure be locked from the inside?

I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing this to make things difficult for you, and they aren't even genuine viewings

even if they are, & even if they sell before you move, they have to sell with sitting tenants - you don't have to move out before the end of your contract


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I cant remember if I knew or not when we first rented it - I think we were told that it had been on the market, but they couldnt sell it so they were going to rent it. However, they have asked nicely in the past and shown a couple of viewers. but only two in the 5 months we've been here. then we had all the "fuss" a couple of months ago when they told us we had to leave cos they'd sold it?? changing that to "they wanted to live in it for the summer" and in the end they stopped hassling us. Til now that is, when, in the last three weeks we've had three viewings and this will be the forth. Each time, she's tried to arrange it for within an hour of phoning me. 

And yes, its an interesting point that if we werent here, would she come round and show the house anyway???? I just hope they cant make us leave before the end of the contrac - "unofficially" make us leave, by making things difficult. 

Its such a shame, cos actually we're very good tenants!

Jo xxx


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## casaloco (Mar 30, 2011)

i had a similar problem here years ago when my landlord wanted to come back from oz early.


just found this dont know if its any help,

Selling your rental property

If a tenant is renting a property on a Vivienda contract and the owner wishes to sell, then the tenant has the right of pre-emption (derecho de tanteo) and the tenant must be offered first refusal. This is legal law and the owner must notify the tenant in writing detailing the price and conditions of the sale and must give them a reasonable period of time to reply. If the tenant does not reply or refuses then the owner is free to sell. Failing to inform the tenant means the tenant has the right to have the sale annulled and purchase the property themselves at the price stated on the sale contract.

A purchaser who buys a property that is occupied by a tenant on a Vivienda contract must take on the rights and obligations of the vendor. The new owner cannot terminate the contract and must allow the tenant to stay in the property until the end of the contract.

With temporary contracts the right of pre-emption does not apply however it is strongly advised to inform the tenant immediately if you wish to sell the property, possibly offering first refusal as a good will gesture. Although it is a temporary contract, the law states that the tenant has the right to stay in the property until the end date stated on the contract and if the property is sold before this date the new owner must honour the existing temporary contract.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

casaloco said:


> i had a similar problem here years ago when my landlord wanted to come back from oz early.
> 
> 
> just found this dont know if its any help,
> ...


Thanks for that, yes they have asked us if we want to buy it, but they didnt put that in writing. In fact as with most rentals here, its all done in cash and not declared - even the bills are in their name and the name of the owner on our contract is a company!? I'm fairly confident that if they do sell it, then we will dig our heals in and suggest that they either offer to "buy us out" or put up with us here til October. As I say we've not been officially declared as tenants, they probably have more to lose than we do??????????

They want waaaaaaaaaaay over the odds for it anyway!!! 300,000€ FFS, its barely worth half that!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

casaloco said:


> i had a similar problem here years ago when my landlord wanted to come back from oz early.
> 
> 
> just found this dont know if its any help,
> ...


interesting - where did you find that? - do you have a link?


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## casaloco (Mar 30, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> interesting - where did you find that? - do you have a link?


yes its funny a site protecting agents and landlords!!!!

Landlord and tenant law in Spain.

ive found a few more.

Property law in Spain, a guide for landord & tenants

theres an interesting bit in here!

Rentals of one year or longer are considered long term and this applies to short term contracts that have been mutually extended i.e. a six month contract that is renewed for a further six months.


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## casaloco (Mar 30, 2011)

What happens in Spain if a tenant is not willing to vacate our property? - belegal.com


sorry if i'm butting in, but this sort of behaviour by landlords, riles me up,


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## casaloco (Mar 30, 2011)

This is Spain: Free legal Advice

The third paragraph down is Very interesting!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

casaloco said:


> What happens in Spain if a tenant is not willing to vacate our property? - belegal.com
> 
> 
> sorry if i'm butting in, but this sort of behaviour by landlords, riles me up,


But what did this landlord do that was unacceptable? They bought a property for retirement, rented it until they were ready to occupy it...then wanted to terminate the contract.
The landlord merely wishes to repossess their property for their use.
I've been a landlord in the UK and abroad and am now a tenant and can see both sides. What has happened to Jo is outrageous. No decent landlord would behave like that and I hope she gives them hell.
But in spite of what many think, renting your property as a landlord is more risky than renting it as a tenant. We were responsible landlords and are very good tenants but it was the perverse and unreasonable behaviour of a couple of our tenants that made us decide to sell our properties after their leases had expired.
Most landlords here in Spain will tell you horror stories - I would never rent here(unless to people like Jo) and my son and dil will now rent their house only to friends and work colleagues and some of them leave the place in a less than desirable state on departure. The worst were the duo who left the loo unflushed and the dishwasher crammed with food-encrusted crockery for several days in blistering summer heat...
So yes, Jo's landlords/agents are evil.....but we need a sense of balance.
When one rents, it's your home but your landlord's house. Respect needed on both sides.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> But what did this landlord do that was unacceptable? They bought a property for retirement, rented it until they were ready to occupy it...then wanted to terminate the contract.
> The landlord merely wishes to repossess their property for their use.
> I've been a landlord in the UK and abroad and am now a tenant and can see both sides. What has happened to Jo is outrageous. No decent landlord would behave like that and I hope she gives them hell.
> But in spite of what many think, renting your property as a landlord is more risky than renting it as a tenant. We were responsible landlords and are very good tenants but it was the perverse and unreasonable behaviour of a couple of our tenants that made us decide to sell our properties after their leases had expired.
> ...



I've seen both sides too. I've viewed many properties where the previous tenants have simply trashed em and when we've viewed there have been workmen/cleaners in and the state some people leave places is horrendous - and many have done a flit without paying any rent. Hence alot of landlords want three months rent as deposit and some rent money up front, so I kinda see both sides and being a landlord is probably more risky. However, I keep this place clean and tidy - well.... lived in, we're a family with teenagers and dogs!!!!!!!!!!!! I pay my rent and bills on time and I'm ok with showing people round if I'm given notice and as long as its made clear that we live here. The last people who looked a couple of days ago were told that we're only staying here on holiday??????? Er..... my children were here in their school uniforms!??? I even make a point of showing the good things about the house, hiding the damp patch in the bedrooom, telling them how lovely the area is etc...

Jo xxx


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## casaloco (Mar 30, 2011)

casaloco said:


> What happens in Spain if a tenant is not willing to vacate our property? - belegal.com
> 
> 
> sorry if i'm butting in, but this sort of behaviour by landlords, riles me up,


sorry i wasnt refering to the behaviour of the landlord in the link, i actually have some sympathy with them as they obviously were not advised correctly when they rented their property, it was just used as an example of the tenancy law in spain, its not the first time i have read that if a leese is renewed, that the tenant then has the right to stay for a further 5 years. 

*
its the behaviour of the landlord/agent that Jo has, that has riled me.*

i also am not sure the landlord/agent has any rights to come into jo's *property* without her permission???
*Jo's Home*


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I've seen both sides too. I've viewed many properties where the previous tenants have simply trashed em and when we've viewed there have been workmen/cleaners in and the state some people leave places is horrendous - and many have done a flit without paying any rent. Hence alot of landlords want three months rent as deposit and some rent money up front, so I kinda see both sides and being a landlord is probably more risky. However, I keep this place clean and tidy - well.... lived in, we're a family with teenagers and dogs!!!!!!!!!!!! I pay my rent and bills on time and I'm ok with showing people round if I'm given notice and as long as its made clear that we live here. The last people who looked a couple of days ago were told that we're only staying here on holiday??????? Er..... my children were here in their school uniforms!??? I even make a point of showing the good things about the house, hiding the damp patch in the bedrooom, telling them how lovely the area is etc...
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, any landlord should nurture tenants like you (and us).
Here's my advice, for what it's worth: show these agents that they are not dealing with some dumb foreigner. Write them a formal letter pointing out that you have a contract which gives you rights which they are attempting to ignore. 
Tell them that you consider this harassment which is a crime and that if they persist you will take action, i.e. denuncia. 
Tell them you require at least 24 hours notice before allowing viewings and that under no circumstances should they enter your property in your absence and that if they do you will report this as a burglary.
You could also hire Our Little Azor....only joking. He liked you -he prefers women(wonder why) - and would deter any unwanted visitors.
Seriously, you need to make it clear that up with this you will not put!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

casaloco said:


> sorry i wasnt refering to the behaviour of the landlord in the link, i actually have some sympathy with them as they obviously were not advised correctly when they rented their property, it was just used as an example of the tenancy law in spain, its not the first time i have read that if a leese is renewed, that the tenant then has the right to stay for a further 5 years.
> 
> *
> its the behaviour of the landlord/agent that Jo has, that has riled me.*
> ...



Ahh...all is now clear
The landlord cannot enter a tenant's home without their permission...only under very limited circumstances and these are not applicable in Jo's case.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

The tone of this thread should be a warning to any prospective landlord. I have a property in Arroyo de la Miel but there is no way I would ever consider a long let either to Spaniards or resident or long term non-resident foreigners. I would rather that it stood empty.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Jo why not tell her she has to contact you by email and wait for your reply.
That way you will have it all documented plus there will be no I phoned you but couldn't get in touch.

Chris


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

MaidenScotland said:


> Jo why not tell her she has to contact you by email and wait for your reply.
> That way you will have it all documented plus there will be no I phoned you but couldn't get in touch.
> 
> Chris


Thats not a bad idea! I get my e-mail on my phone, so even if I'm not at the pc................

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Beachcomber said:


> The tone of this thread should be a warning to any prospective landlord. I have a property in Arroyo de la Miel but there is no way I would ever consider a long let either to Spaniards or resident or long term non-resident foreigners. I would rather that it stood empty.


Surely the tone of this thread is that both landlord and tenant have rights and obligations which they should respect?
But I agree, I would never rent out a house here.
I wouldn't buy either.


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