# State of the Economy



## PENBC (Sep 9, 2008)

Given the state of the world is in a downward spiral...are there any signs on the ground in Dubai. Any layoffs, slow down in real estate etc. Has anyone had their offers of employment revoked because of the economy?


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## Smiles:-) (Mar 5, 2008)

PENBC said:


> Given the state of the world is in a downward spiral...are there any signs on the ground in Dubai. Any layoffs, slow down in real estate etc. Has anyone had their offers of employment revoked because of the economy?


YES, I had a job in the bag (Property development) they were just waiting on the chairman to give final ok and today I got a call saying sorry but the chairman just put a hiring freeze and the position has been put on hold indefinitely. I was sooo bummed! They said it was because of the economy.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I worked in the automotive business in Dubai. I was finding it more and more difficult sourcing diesel 4x4's as they are very popular. Plenty of petrol ones but they're of no use in war zones! However, we did end up having to use them eventually.

I often wondered when driving around Dubai if the credit crunch had reached it, there seems to be massive building projects going on all over. This was also evident in Abu Dhabi and when I visited Doha.

Having been back in Europe for a couple of months, it seems everyone is worrying about a recession although people are still spending; I sat in traffic for 1 hour this morning as the shopping mall was congested with shoppers, parking was almost non existant. I do wonder if the media are scaremongering......


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## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> I worked in the automotive business in Dubai. I was finding it more and more difficult sourcing diesel 4x4's as they are very popular. Plenty of petrol ones but they're of no use in war zones! However, we did end up having to use them eventually.
> 
> I often wondered when driving around Dubai if the credit crunch had reached it, there seems to be massive building projects going on all over. This was also evident in Abu Dhabi and when I visited Doha.
> 
> Having been back in Europe for a couple of months, it seems everyone is worrying about a recession although people are still spending; I sat in traffic for 1 hour this morning as the shopping mall was congested with shoppers, parking was almost non existant. I do wonder if the media are scaremongering......


The local press are definitely not scare mongering. In fact, they have only just started to acknowledged that there is a slow down. I have heard of redundancies and met people who have been laid off. Hubby's company is cutting costs left, right and centre. Just look at the property pages in the Gulf News. Off Plan properties, in particular, are very hard to sell.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Dubai is being affected, but you won't see it reported in the press. 

The property sector has been hit, with huge amounts of resales advertised but fewer buyers than before. Partly market sentiment and partly due to the fact the strengthening of the US Dollar makes the UAE more expensive for British and European buyers. I know for a fact that certain developments are slowing down and I am waiting to hear of some being cancelled. This has happened before.

The UAE is not immune to global markets, whatever the press says, but the sheer size of the soveriegn wealth funds (AD = trillions of Dollars) and the massive reserves in Abu Dhabi (already bailing out some Dubai projects I hear) means that the rulers can prop up the country.

-


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

I have a friend who works as landscape architect and her customers are all the major developers. Yesterday she learnt that one of the big ones will lay off 400 people in the next few days.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I read a report on the BBC News website about the effects of the credit crunch on Dubai....it's regarded as a weak area and likely to be more affected than other Gulf states.

Could be interesting times ahead.....


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## PENBC (Sep 9, 2008)

Elphaba said:


> Dubai is being affected, but you won't see it reported in the press.
> 
> The property sector has been hit, with huge amounts of resales advertised but fewer buyers than before. Partly market sentiment and partly due to the fact the strengthening of the US Dollar makes the UAE more expensive for British and European buyers. I know for a fact that certain developments are slowing down and I am waiting to hear of some being cancelled. This has happened before.
> 
> ...


I hope that proves to be true.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

It does seem like the property boom is coming to an end!

= FOCUS: Dubai Property Agents Fear Crash As Home Sales Slump


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

There is no property slump here. We're immune to the rest of the worlds problems, living in our own little microcosm called virtual reality. 

Didn't you not know...


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Andy Capp said:


> There is no property slump here. We're immune to the rest of the worlds problems, living in our own little microcosm called virtual reality.
> 
> Didn't you not know...


You worry me sometimes.... Lol


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## ReloMan (Aug 31, 2008)

Has anyone seen a drop in rents? I am interested to see if we are starting to see more of a supply of open rental properties.

Thanks for the info in advance.


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

Financial Storm Hits Gulf - WSJ.com

Meanwhile, in Dubai, real-estate agents are seeing what could be the first signs that the city-state's property boom is sputtering. There's no concrete evidence yet of significantly falling prices, and Dubai's property developers have said they remain optimistic. But property investors, who were making big gains buying and then reselling property just a few months ago, are lowering asking prices and increasingly willing to stomach losses to free up cash, brokers said.

The sudden softening could be an early warning of deeper problems for Dubai, which has fueled its recent supercharged growth through debt. Amid today's financial crisis, overseas borrowing and refinancing are much more difficult, raising questions about Dubai's ability to pay back its loans.


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

ReloMan said:


> Has anyone seen a drop in rents? I am interested to see if we are starting to see more of a supply of open rental properties.


Unfortunately, no. My rent has been increased twice in the past 9 months. It looks like they will keep on increasing the rent every time there is a crackdown on people sharing villas and to compensate for fewer home sales I suppose.

I think the RE here is way overpriced anyway. The bubble has to burst at some pt. Agents here don't want to realize that there is a limit to what people are willing to pay for low quality housing in a developing country. My rent here is higher than anything I've ever paid for housing in the first world.


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

Andy Capp said:


> There is no property slump here. We're immune to the rest of the worlds problems, living in our own little microcosm called virtual reality.
> 
> Didn't you not know...



aaawww, I just wish somebody would have warned me about that stupid red pill!!!


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

DesertStranded said:


> Unfortunately, no. My rent has been increased twice in the past 9 months. It looks like they will keep on increasing the rent every time there is a crackdown on people sharing villas and to compensate for fewer home sales I suppose.
> 
> I think the RE here is way overpriced anyway. The bubble has to burst at some pt. Agents here don't want to realize that there is a limit to what people are willing to pay for low quality housing in a developing country. My rent here is higher than anything I've ever paid for housing in the first world.


Same here, I pay more for a room here than I do for my whole apartment back in the UK 

On the flipside I don't have to send as much back to pay the mortgage now (although just planning on making overpayments with the budgetted extra cash), my travel allowance is worth more and I paid my UK credit card off twice as quick as I had anticipated.


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## Giadita (Sep 21, 2008)

ReloMan said:


> Has anyone seen a drop in rents? I am interested to see if we are starting to see more of a supply of open rental properties.
> 
> Thanks for the info in advance.


That will be an interesting thing to check on the next months. Actually the drop of real estate market usually doesn't turn into lower renting but the opposite. As there's less demand for buying property there's higher demand for renting so that takes renting prices to go up. That's happening in Europe already. Of course this economic rule applies where demand of housing is higher than offer of houses.

But here in Dubai some rules don't apply, plus, as someone mentioned, the government seems to "fill the gaps" to keep things smooth over here, plus we know how real estate market in Dubai is altered by a lot of money laundering for which a lot of property is just unused.

I am aware of a project of actually applying the islamic law which forbids to house share if you're not close relatives with your house mates (husband/wife/mum/dad/grands/siblings I believe it's all that's allowed). Far now this rule has been not applied strictly, but they are supposed to be applying it severely from next year.
Of course, as always happens, they start by hitting the hammer on the weakest and more needed. Just yesterday a filipino friend of mine found herself awaked in the middle of the night by the police who had came to the villa she was sharing with other 8 people to make them evacuate. Europeans and Americans are still immune (we europeans and americans should be embarrassed of such privileges instead of being proud of them) but rumors say from next year the law will be the same for everybody (if one pretends to be so naive to believe here things could ever be equal).
I can't even think of the effects of such a law being seriuosly applied, how many europeans in Dubai are sharing a flat with other people as they could never afford a rent on their own? Thousands! Will the government take the risk of applying such a law? What will be the response? A lot of people heading back home? Salary increasing (hum....)? Renting going down?

Live to see it, far now my company has already told me they wont be able to be fulfilling my accommodation anymore and that they have cash flaw problems as they are not able to sell the properties they've invested on the past years as market is flat...but you know what? The bubble had to burst at a certain point and I was quite aware that Dubai wasn't the paradise it looked like.


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## grandesigner (Oct 5, 2008)

This thread and the one currently next to it " is 26,000 enough" are the same question. It isnt the rent thats going to move down in a crunch, its the wages. The first thing to go in a crisis is the staff. Getting rid of the expensive ones, and replacing with an equally skilled, but cheaper available alternative. Not usually the wisest move, but often the most financially prudent.The rest of the world, well certainly Europe, is suffering a financial crash. Stopping finance, slowing development,etc.,etc. This frees up a desperate workforce, and they start to move. They are forced to accept and live off less, due to fear of having nothing at all as an alternative.

I'm leaving this part of Europe, because there is no work here. I know no-one earning enough to pay their mortgages. House prices have dipped, rent has dipped, but wages and employment have crashed

Hopefully its true that the Royals can prop up the economy with their bag fulls of cash. But they aren't daft. There must be a reduction in new developments. We all thought they were clever enough to see that oil wont last and tourism, finance, technology etc. were where it is at. Since then, the financial world has collapsed on its money grabbing arse, western Europeans have less to spend on a holiday, and the first thing to go in the past in a company is the research and Development Dept.

As I sit here, with too much time on my hands; waiting for Wednesday when I fly to join you. The FTSE100 has lost 5% in an hour. That's not the holding companies collapsing,they still own the stock, the oil, the coal, the ore. Thats the pension system collapsing. That is the sound of those that own property panicking, holding on to it, and putting prices up to compensate.

What a very gloomy man I am this morning, think I'll put Radio one on. Cheers all


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

Giadita said:


> Europeans and Americans are still immune (we europeans and americans should be embarrassed of such privileges instead of being proud of them)



I wouldnt say that you should be embarrassed about it because after all its not you who made these racist laws. However something that I do notice out here is that Europeans/Americans tend to hang out amongst themselves and many do think that they are better than the Indians/Pakistanis/Filipinos etc. At least thats the feeling i get when i see them in shopping malls.


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## Giadita (Sep 21, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> I wouldnt say that you should be embarrassed about it because after all its not you who made these racist laws. However something that I do notice out here is that Europeans/Americans tend to hang out amongst themselves and many do think that they are better than the Indians/Pakistanis/Filipinos etc. At least thats the feeling i get when i see them in shopping malls.


Maybe embarrassed is not the right term, may be grateful is, as being born in Europe or America is not a choice or an achievement, it was just an accident. But I do believe everyone participates of laws and rules as far as we witness them and do nothing about them. If there's a bar who wouldn't let a filipino/pakistan/indian/etc. in, one as an european or american should avoid that bar as well, that's what I think and that's what I do. If euro/americans keep on bringing money to places that discriminate they are feeding racism.

G


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> I wouldnt say that you should be embarrassed about it because after all its not you who made these racist laws. However something that I do notice out here is that Europeans/Americans tend to hang out amongst themselves and many do think that they are better than the Indians/Pakistanis/Filipinos etc. At least thats the feeling i get when i see them in shopping malls.


Maybe I've been sheltered from this so far but in the group of people I hang about with there are plenty of nationalities. It's who you choose to be around. Last time we were all out there were people from (in no particular order):

UK, US, Malaysia, Kenya, Seychelles (she's is strange though), Phillipines, India, Sri Lanka, Iraq, Australia...apologies to those I've missed out.

We even had people from the poorer parts of the world like Hull  

Why come to a place like this and hide away from all this wonderful diversity? What makes me laugh is when I here expats tell me they've moved away from the UK because of all the 'immigrants' taking all the jobs and then get offended when I tell them that's exactly what they are


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

The rules regarding sharing have been law for a long time and there were announcements about cracking down about two years ago. There are ongoing radio campaigns about it too.

Someone mentioned about the UK pension system collapsing. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I guess they were referring to investments, whereas the fact is that for anyone who is an indivudual scheme and far from retiring, this is no bad thing. Anyone close to retiring should have been appropriately invested.

Property, as an investment, is just another asset class. Anyone who thinks different is just deluding themselves. Property values have always fallen and risen. If you have been around a while, or read some economic history, that would be quite clear.

And for the record I said that UAE rulers would prop up the economy, not bail everyone out. Quite different things. The rulers do not accept normal market forces and appearance is all. Hang around a bit longer and you'll understand.


-


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## grandesigner (Oct 5, 2008)

Elphaba said:


> The rules regarding sharing have been law for a long time and there were announcements about cracking down about two years ago. There are ongoing radio campaigns about it too.
> 
> Someone mentioned about the UK pension system collapsing. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I guess they were referring to investments, whereas the fact is that for anyone who is an indivudual scheme and far from retiring, this is no bad thing. Anyone close to retiring should have been appropriately invested.
> 
> ...


Well, i wasnt particularly referring to the UK,as I havent lived there for nearly a decade. But in terms of hanging around, I intend to. Occasionally I actually like my pessimism being proved wrong


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

There's no reason for rents to go down as demand still way outstrips supply. There's more people coming in here than leaving so you wont get a reduction, that and the greedy ******s who are renting their proprties out, aren't worried about dropping the price, for every villa?apartment up for lease, there's 10+ calls for it - source 3 leasing agents who specialise in JBR and Marina. Fact.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> ... Seychelles (she's is strange though),


Strange? Moi? Mais au contraire!  I am very much normal - in a strange way!! 

You must like strange people cause I still receive invites!! Thank God for the strange people in the world, else you would have no friends!


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> Last time we were all out there were people from (in no particular order):
> 
> UK, US, Malaysia, Kenya, Seychelles (she's is strange though), Phillipines, India, Sri Lanka, Iraq, Australia...apologies to those I've missed out.
> 
> ...



this doesnt count though because you got to know each other thru this forum and connected somehow 

so Maz is strange huh ?


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> so Maz is strange huh ?


Mais oui Monsieur bien sur!!! Elle est tres strange!!!

I haven't met all the people I know through the forum either. People from work are generally Sri Lankan and Indian. Landlady's friend's are generally Kenyan...

...there is only one race, the human race!!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> Mais oui Monsieur bien sur!!! Elle est tres strange!!!
> 
> I haven't met all the people I know through the forum either. People from work are generally Sri Lankan and Indian. Landlady's friend's are generally Kenyan...
> 
> ...there is only one race, the human race!!


Are you trying to impress me with your french! 

I do agree with you there (not the part about me being strange though!). I think we all need to be very tolerant and appreciative of other cultures; I've met so many great people here from all over the world and for those who choose to mix only with their fellow countrymen, well - their loss! We have someone from every continent at work (except America) and we all get on brilliantly and for some reason, I feel that Dubai tends to bring out the best (and sometimes the worst - yep, crazymazy, I am referring to your drinking habits ) in people!!!


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> I do agree with you there - part about me being strange of course.


Glad you agree 



Maz25 said:


> We have someone from every continent at work (except America)


How come you've never introduced me to the person you have from Antarctica, they must find this weather very difficult to adjust to.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> ...there is only one race, the human race!!


Bravo, Crazy!!! Best one liner I've ever heard!


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> \ I feel that Dubai tends to bring out the best (and sometimes the worst - yep, crazymazy, I am referring to your drinking habits ) in people!!!


i thought u meant the way they drive when you said that Dubai tends to bring out the worst in people sometimes


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> i thought u meant the way they drive when you said that Dubai tends to bring out the worst in people sometimes


Dubai never made my driving worse......faster....but not worse!


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

i know what you mean, i always slow down in the city when i see a cop car because i am doing 80+ whereas back in berlin i would have my license revoked in a second if i drove 80 in the city.

on the other hand it sucks that they have a speedlimit on the freeways out here, esp when the surface is soooo smooth and also cause there are basically no curves. wish the autobahns back in germany were so smooth


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## Mourm (Oct 22, 2008)

PENBC said:


> Given the state of the world is in a downward spiral...are there any signs on the ground in Dubai. Any layoffs, slow down in real estate etc. Has anyone had their offers of employment revoked because of the economy?


Working in Sales for a real estate company i would like to add something. The market has been slowing down since Ramadan but has not stopped. You find that less off plan properties are being sold but the demand for completed properties is still striving. We are in close connection with a Mortgage broker company and we have been told that Citi Bank is still ready with funds for any struggling financial institution over here. True Abu Dhabi does lend Dubai money but we have lent to them in the past. One way to look at it is that this is a city (Dubai) and the UAE as a whole is the country. The rulers will not let the market fail over here and the main thing is there is a lot of scared people. These scared people bring there prices down for quick sales which has the knock on effect of others waiting and not buying. At the minute there is a lot of sales in other emirates for off plan and this in effect will help the whole of the UAE.

The best example I can think of is the near petrol crisis we had in the UK. It was said that it was going to happen and then people panicked and emptied the stations. It was later released that they would of had enough supply if every one carried on as normal. This is a great country and I feel people need to have more trust for the market. I am still making people money (those who believe in the market) and will continue to do so for some time. It is true that the world as a whole looks to be in trouble but as released the 2 main unaffected countries are UAE and China. Its not all doom and gloom why can't we make the difference and carry on as we were?


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> Glad you agree
> 
> 
> 
> How come you've never introduced me to the person you have from Antarctica, they must find this weather very difficult to adjust to.


Stop editing my posts!  I am not strange (I prefer the word different!) or should I say that it takes one to know one! 

Ok, missed out Antartica when I was thinking of the continents! You looking to add a few Eskimos to your friends' list!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Bravo, Crazy!!! Best one liner I've ever heard!


It's his nr 1 chat up line!! How sad! 

Pasanada - you are so lucky! I've lost count of the number of times I've heard the speech about the human race. Someone clearly fancies himself as Martin Luther King. ''I have a dream that one day I will be able to drink the bar dry and not wake up with a hangover!''


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> Stop editing my posts!  I am not strange (I prefer the word different!) or should I say that it takes one to know one!
> 
> Ok, missed out Antartica when I was thinking of the continents! You looking to add a few Eskimos to your friends' list!


I think you'll find that its Inuit (Inuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and they are indigenous to the northern arctic. There are no native human populations in Antarctica. Only researchers and explorers from many different nations live there for a time while they are doing their work.

Maybe I should arrange for my first born child to be born there and become the father of Antartica, then he can create an underground lair from which to plan his world domination and take over the world....

...muwahahahahaha!!!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> I think you'll find that its Inuit (Inuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and they are indigenous to the northern arctic. There are no native human populations in Antarctica. Only researchers and explorers from many different nations live there for a time while they are doing their work.
> 
> Maybe I should arrange for my first born child to be born there and become the father of Antartica, then he can create an underground lair from which to plan his world domination and take over the world....
> 
> ...muwahahahahaha!!!



Me thinks that someone has been watching the 'Discovery Channel' and Pinky and the Brain a little bit too much! Maybe, you should stay away from Cartoon Network for a few days - make that a few years! 

Mind you, if your first born child ends up like you, he would properly be sufficiently crazy to try and take over the world, helped by his mad Northerner dad!  I, on the other hand, would like my children to be sane - my one and only will be a psychiatrist (there are enough crazymazzies in this world to keep him employed!)!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> It's his nr 1 chat up line!! How sad!
> 
> Pasanada - you are so lucky! I've lost count of the number of times I've heard the speech about the human race. Someone clearly fancies himself as Martin Luther King. ''I have a dream that one day I will be able to drink the bar dry and not wake up with a hangover!''


If thats the best he can do..........no, I'll keep my thoughts to myself! LOL

Anyway, back to the original thread; there is an article on todays BBC News giving a view of Dubai and the property industry. I would put the link on here but at the bottom of the page, there is video footage shot in one of the Labour camps. The powers that be in Dubai don't like bad publicity so I'll leave it to you good people to find the webpage or you can email me for the link.


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## 30knots (Sep 30, 2008)

Giadita said:


> Maybe embarrassed is not the right term, may be grateful is, as being born in Europe or America is not a choice or an achievement, it was just an accident. But I do believe everyone participates of laws and rules as far as we witness them and do nothing about them. If there's a bar who wouldn't let a filipino/pakistan/indian/etc. in, one as an european or american should avoid that bar as well, that's what I think and that's what I do. If euro/americans keep on bringing money to places that discriminate they are feeding racism.
> 
> G


Giadita I think it is very very difficult to be consistent in these cases. Just think which country we (myself from november) have chosen to work in...they promote (UAE and most of the gulf countries) a hostile policy towards Israel, nevertheless
with our work (very well paid or at least better paid than at home) we help these countries to grow and enrich.
As money rules I am sure that any well off filipino/pakistan etc. is wellcome everywhere in the world as much as I am not allowed in some clubs of my hometown. It already happened!!


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

30knots said:


> they promote (UAE and most of the gulf countries) a hostile policy towards Israel


excuse me but since they are Arabs and the Palestinians (you know the ones that lost their homes because Jews were being slaughtered in Europe) are also Arabs, I believe that the UAE and other PERSIAN Gulf states are not doing nearly enough to help their Palestinians "brothers" out.


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## 30knots (Sep 30, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> excuse me but since they are Arabs and the Palestinians (you know the ones that lost their homes because Jews were being slaughtered in Europe) are also Arabs, I believe that the UAE and other PERSIAN Gulf states are not doing nearly enough to help their Palestinians "brothers" out.


first of all I would like you to explain to me the meaning of "the Palestinans lost their homes because jews have been slaughtered in Europe"...I would put the sentence this way; jews have been slaughtered in Europe and the Yalta winner decided to reward them giving them part of a nation (Jordania) that was not theirs and, above all, did not partecipate to the "slaughter". Out of that, you're not probably well informed because if the agreement so called "road map" (which was miserable for Palestinians) among Ariel Sharon, Arafat and Clinton didn't succeed was for the strong influence of the major arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Siria and Iran (this last even not beeing an arab country).
My answer to Giadita wanted to be neutral but I probably explained myself in the wrong way...english is not my mother tongue...


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## boogiedownberlin (Oct 22, 2008)

first of all how long has it been since Israel occupied the golan heights, sheeba farms, the west bank and east jerusalem? secondly the road map that was agreed by the righteous and fair Mr. Bush didnt include the right of return for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees, and it sure as hell didnt include any talks about east jerusalm. 

just look at the amount of water that is stolen from the west bank and golan heights. hell the palestinians in the west bank have barely any water whereas the ILLEGAL Zionist settlers have water to waste. the way i see it Israel doesnt want to give up ALL of West Bank and Golan for precisely this reason. Iran has stated many times that it would agree to whatever the Palestinians and Israelis agree to. you say iran has no business to interfere in the whole conflict because it isnt even an Arab nation.....hmm well what exactly is the US doing in the thousands of miles away from home in the Persian Gulf? also who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin, was it an Iranian, Saudi or Syrian? the road map failed because it was the Israelis who provoked the palestinians by killing civilians FIRST. After all did you really think the "butcher of beirut" would be interested in peace? i hope he rots in his coma forever. 

so you see knots, i am not that illinformed as you might think


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> excuse me but since they are Arabs and the Palestinians (you know the ones that lost their homes because Jews were being slaughtered in Europe) are also Arabs, I believe that the UAE and other PERSIAN Gulf states are not doing nearly enough to help their Palestinians "brothers" out.


Wow, you're showing true German form today. 

Since when are Palestinians 'brothers' to other Gulf states? Are you seriously operating under the mistaken notion that there is any semblance of Arab unity in the ME. 

Arabs/muslims don't hesitate to fight each other if there is something to be gained. Look at the plight of the Kurds: what they suffer at the hands of nations in which they are found and the hypocritical lack of sympathy shown to them by western PC monkeys simply because it is Turks, Arabs and Persians rather than Jews denying them their own homeland. sigh. I'm really sick of all the PC causes of the moment as if said PC monkeys really care. In reality, they are just seeking justification for their already existent prejudices and hiding behind sympathy of a particular group to shield them from any accusations of prejudice.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

boogiedownberlin said:


> first of all how long has it been since Israel occupied the golan heights, sheeba farms, the west bank and east jerusalem? secondly the road map that was agreed by the righteous and fair Mr. Bush didnt include the right of return for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees, and it sure as hell didnt include any talks about east jerusalm.
> 
> just look at the amount of water that is stolen from the west bank and golan heights. hell the palestinians in the west bank have barely any water whereas the ILLEGAL Zionist settlers have water to waste. the way i see it Israel doesnt want to give up ALL of West Bank and Golan for precisely this reason. Iran has stated many times that it would agree to whatever the Palestinians and Israelis agree to. you say iran has no business to interfere in the whole conflict because it isnt even an Arab nation.....hmm well what exactly is the US doing in the thousands of miles away from home in the Persian Gulf? also who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin, was it an Iranian, Saudi or Syrian? the road map failed because it was the Israelis who provoked the palestinians by killing civilians FIRST. After all did you really think the "butcher of beirut" would be interested in peace? i hope he rots in his coma forever.
> 
> so you see knots, i am not that illinformed as you might think



You are mis-informed on several of these issues and I do not appreciate the racist sentiments implicit in many of your comments. Further vitriol of this nature will not be tolerated on this board.

I can now closing this thread and suggest that you read, and certain other posters, a few more history books and learn some facts.

This board is not the place to get into a heavy discussion of Middle Eastern politics. Anyone who has been around a while will understand why.

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