# Spanish crime statistics



## Lonely (Aug 11, 2012)

I wanted to have a look to understand which areas are safer so I started googling for stats...maybe you can add your own experiences, thanks.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/w...es-spains-farmers-patrol-their-land.html?_r=0

Crime trends in detail - Statistics Explained

Crime statistics - Statistics Explained


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lonely said:


> I wanted to have a look to understand which areas are safer so I started googling for stats...maybe you can add your own experiences, thanks.
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/w...es-spains-farmers-patrol-their-land.html?_r=0
> ...



there isn't much in the way of major crime - mostly it's 'petty' crime & crime of opportunity

certainly there seems to be an increase in house burglaries of empty properties & robberies from cars

someone I know was burgled while they were away - only cash & small, easily sell-able things were taken

a very expensive watch was left behind - maybe it would have been too difficult to sell?

general feeling is that it's robbery for survival rather than anything 'organised'


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes, keep your purses/wallets close to you at all times !!

I have had my purse removed from my closed bag, since I moved here in February & am now very aware of this type of opportunist crime.

Last year, when on holiday, in Fuengirola - my beach bag was stolen. It was right beside my sun bed. I was awake & reading & never saw a thing !!


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

They use hooked sticks to drag them away - they have been known to do the same in restaurants/outside cafes too.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

I can only add, I feel safer living in Spain than I did in the UK.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I watch the local news for Cadiz province every night and there definitely seems to be an increase in petty theft and burglaries compared to six years ago. Drug smuggling is at epidemic proportions. Theft accompanied by violence is still extremely rare, but not unheard of.

Several visiting friends have had valuables nicked on the beach while they were swimming. They seem to think that Spain is "safer" than the UK, and they can be more relaxed about leaving their belongings unattended. This is nonsense, you have to use a bit of common sense wherever you are in the world.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Much safer than i.e. Italy or the UK.

Lol!


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## Lonely (Aug 11, 2012)

oh everyone knows that the UK is not safe.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lonely said:


> oh everyone knows that the UK is not safe.


I have to disagree - the UK is very safe, but then it all depends where you are.

Central London is probably not as safe as in a small village in the Cotswolds. 

Same in Spain. The South coast is probably not as safe as an inland village.


Overall, I suspect that Spain is safer than UK (England).


In all the time that we've been here I've only heard of a couple of problems and in those, nothing much of value was taken.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

One cannot rely on statistics, when deciding if a place is safe to live, most crime committed is not reported, and some crimes that are reported are not recorded.

You can tell when a place is safe, people leave their handbags, phones on the bar when going to the bathroom or outside for a smoke, people leave the keys in the ignition and engine running whilst away from their vehicles. Children play safely without fear and are unsupervised.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> there isn't much in the way of major crime - mostly it's 'petty' crime & crime of opportunity
> 
> certainly there seems to be an increase in house burglaries of empty properties & robberies from cars
> 
> ...


& it's official too 

at least in my town

Recorded crime rate in Jávea is 8 points down for 2013 | José Chulvi


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## TSN.IMM (May 13, 2013)

Hepa said:


> ...
> You can tell when a place is safe, people leave their handbags, phones on the bar when going to the bathroom or outside for a smoke, people leave the keys in the ignition and engine running whilst away from their vehicles. Children play safely without fear and are unsupervised.


I have problem finding such place. Where children play safely without fear and are unsupervised, then no car and bar, and vice versa.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

TSN.IMM said:


> I have problem finding such place. Where children play safely without fear and are unsupervised, then no car and bar, and vice versa.



children play safely & without fear with little to no supervision here, outside bars next to roads.........


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## TSN.IMM (May 13, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> children play safely & without fear with little to no supervision here, outside bars next to roads.........


Sounds great place, Xabiachica!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

TSN.IMM said:


> Sounds great place, Xabiachica!


I'd like to say it's only where I live - but it isn't 

I think it's a culture thing - everyone looks out for everyone else's children, the older children look out for the little ones


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lonely said:


> oh everyone knows that the UK is not safe.


Neither is Italy, the only country apart from Spain where I have actually been robbed and where even more than in Spain corruption and organized crime are rife.

But then Italy did have Berlusconi as it's elected PM.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I'd like to say it's only where I live - but it isn't
> 
> I think it's a culture thing - everyone looks out for everyone else's children, the older children look out for the little ones


It's the same here too. We have several areas in the village where children can play safely while their parents sit at an adjacent bar and have a drink and a chat. Very civilised!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We would consider this village to be safe and kids (even under 10s) are about as late as 9 or 10pm on their way home from classes/ band practice/ football practice/ etc. with no problems. Occasionally the odd pickpockets (often with the clipboard trick) will drift in briefly and out again without getting much.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Only petty theft around here mostly and children play safely until midnight - not our boy, we are sticking, at least for now, to UK bedtime rules. In the villages front doors are usually open, cars are never locked and it basically feels safe. Certainly much safer that the leafy Surrey town we left where robberies, muggings, stabbings and murder was pretty much commonplace.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Crime overall in Spain is no different to most countries i have lived in....but...but petty crime is a pain in backside. The only problem I have with Spain is petty crime, (that and my inability to speak the language) handbag, wallet, breaking and entry, property and car, mobiles off tables,etc etc. 

In spain the media have a different view on what to and not to report as news which does give a slanted view on Spain. There are certain crimes that are very rare in Spain (and Portugal) because they do not get reported.

There is no way it can be compared with the UK (referring to the bucket and spade areas of spain)

sorry if it upsets those living the dream and lifestyle but its true, after 19 years its not getter better or worse it just is.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

ssbn02 said:


> Crime overall in Spain is no different to most countries i have lived in....but...but petty crime is a pain in backside. The only problem I have with Spain is petty crime, (that and my inability to speak the language) handbag, wallet, breaking and entry, property and car, mobiles off tables,etc etc.
> 
> In spain the media have a different view on what to and not to report as news which does give a slanted view on Spain. There are certain crimes that are very rare in Spain (and Portugal) because they do not get reported.
> 
> ...


Have you lived in other parts of Spain, besides the Costa del Sol?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

thrax said:


> Only petty theft around here mostly and children play safely until midnight - not our boy, we are sticking, at least for now, to UK bedtime rules. In the villages front doors are usually open, cars are never locked and it basically feels safe. Certainly much safer that the leafy Surrey town we left where robberies, muggings, stabbings and murder was pretty much commonplace.



Altho I know what you mean, sometimes we have to also remember that a small, quiet village in the UK is just as safe. I have a friend who lives in such a village in east sussex and would say the same. She moved there from London for that reason - almost no crime!

Its more about the crime in big towns in both countries. But I would say, like for like theres not much difference. Altho I would say that its possible crime in Spain is for need, in the UK its for greed

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

thrax said:


> Only petty theft around here mostly and children play safely until midnight - not our boy, we are sticking, at least for now, to UK bedtime rules. In the villages front doors are usually open, cars are never locked and it basically feels safe. Certainly much safer that the leafy Surrey town we left where robberies, muggings, stabbings and murder was pretty much commonplace.


Same here. However we are in a village (pop. c.5000), where almost everybody knows everybody else and since the majority are related through families being inter-married, anything that anyone does is invariably involving a family member. There was a bit of a problem up until about a year ago but they were expats who have now moved back to where they came from.

Walking the dogs, 10pm the other evening and I met a couple of four year olds whom I have never seen before, walking home quite safely, we exchanged greetings and carried on our separate ways. "Don't talk to strangers"? Who is a stranger in a place like this?


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Have you lived in other parts of Spain, besides the Costa del Sol?


Barcelona for 4 years, Alicante for 2, madrid for 2, murcia for 1 and sunny marb for 4, all with gaps in between. First came to live in spain 1995, petty crime was rife in barcelona, still is and is just something that 'is'. 

Have family in other parts on the coast, lots of friends of all nationalities spread up and down the coast and it is just a way of life here, it is annoying and rife.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I'd like to say it's only where I live - but it isn't
> 
> I think it's a culture thing - everyone looks out for everyone else's children, the older children look out for the little ones


Even in the centre of Madrid the norm is to find a plaza where the kids can be outside playing and the parents nearby having a coffee or a beer; Plaza Olavide, Plaza Conde Suchil and Plaza Dos de Mayo very near Chueca for example.
Depending on the age of the children the parents have to be or less "there", but unless they're very small most parents encourage them to go off to a certain distance to play, but will obviously be keeping an eye out for them.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

ssbn02 said:


> Barcelona for 4 years, Alicante for 2, madrid for 2, murcia for 1 and sunny marb for 4, all with gaps in between. First came to live in spain 1995, petty crime was rife in barcelona, still is and is just something that 'is'.
> 
> Have family in other parts on the coast, lots of friends of all nationalities spread up and down the coast and it is just a way of life here, it is annoying and rife.


Away from the big cities and Costas it's still relatively rare. It's got worse everywhere in the past few years though, with the massive rise in unemployment. 

I live in a rural town, pop. 5,600 with less than 30 non-Spanish immigrants. When I first came here in 2005 crime was almost non-existent, but now there are maybe three or four reported break-ins a year and a fair bit of petty crime. The perpetrators that get caught are invariably local kids with a drug habit; it's a big problem because these people have very few options.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Away from the big cities and Costas it's still relatively rare. It's got worse everywhere in the past few years though, with the massive rise in unemployment.
> 
> I live in a rural town, pop. 5,600 with less than 30 non-Spanish immigrants. When I first came here in 2005 crime was almost non-existent, but now there are maybe three or four reported break-ins a year and a fair bit of petty crime. The perpetrators that get caught are invariably local kids with a drug habit; it's a big problem because these people have very few options.


I totally agree with you, away from the main coastal towns and resorts its not a real problem.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Even in the centre of Madrid the norm is to find a plaza where the kids can be outside playing and the parents nearby having a coffee or a beer; Plaza Olavide, Plaza Conde Suchil and Plaza Dos de Mayo very near Chueca for example.
> Depending on the age of the children the parents have to be or less "there", but unless they're very small most parents encourage them to go off to a certain distance to play, but will obviously be keeping an eye out for them.


Same here.

Occasionally children _do_ go missing in Spain, it's not unheard of. But you don't get the same level of parental anxiety and over-protectiveness that you see in Britain. I wonder why this is? Is Britain really less safe for children?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> Barcelona for 4 years, Alicante for 2, madrid for 2, murcia for 1 and sunny marb for 4, all with gaps in between. First came to live in spain 1995, petty crime was rife in barcelona, still is and is just something that 'is'.
> 
> Have family in other parts on the coast, lots of friends of all nationalities spread up and down the coast and it is just a way of life here, it is annoying and rife.


I haven't been to Barcelona for quite a while (I used to live near there), but I believe that petty crime is, as you say, still high. 
Here's someting else related to Barcelona. I found it in English too for those that haven't got to grips with the lingo yet
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-against-out-control-tourism.html#post5002337


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Same here.
> 
> Occasionally children _do_ go missing in Spain, it's not unheard of. But you don't get the same level of parental anxiety and over-protectiveness that you see in Britain. I wonder why this is? Is Britain really less safe for children?


Yes, you're right they do. And there are peadophiles as well, of course and all the other dangers that we know of. But I don't know the stats.
I might go as far as saying there are more church related crimes here than in *Britian*...


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Same here.
> 
> Occasionally children _do_ go missing in Spain, it's not unheard of. But you don't get the same level of parental anxiety and over-protectiveness that you see in Britain. I wonder why this is? Is Britain really less safe for children?


I prob think this level of crime is on the same level as in the UK, prob is in the UK it is liked by the media and get alot of coverage. In spain it is not reported by the media as widely so doesnt exist. I may be wrong, normally am thanks to The Sun, that certain area of portugal were known for such crimes, it was a sort of resort for them, it was only the maddy incident that put it out there and let us all know how common a prob it was and is...a client i have in Barcelona will not even entertain the idea that this sort of crime happens in spain, if it does it is a problem imported by the british!!!!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Same here.
> 
> Occasionally children _do_ go missing in Spain, it's not unheard of. But you don't get the same level of parental anxiety and over-protectiveness that you see in Britain. I wonder why this is? Is Britain really less safe for children?





Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, you're right they do. And there are peadophiles as well, of course and all the other dangers that we know of. But I don't know the stats.
> I might go as far as saying there are more church related crimes here than in *Britian*...


Un total de 667 menores están en paradero desconocido en España desde 2013 - Noticias de España



> *Un total de 667 menores están en paradero desconocido en España desde 2013*


http://missingkids.co.uk/missing/

137 still missing apparently
*

0.0014/100 people in Spain compared to 0.00022/100 people in Britain

*so it seems that it's a bigger problem in Spain than the UK...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Un total de 667 menores están en paradero desconocido en España desde 2013 - Noticias de España
> 
> 
> Search for missing children - Missing Kids UK
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Un total de 667 menores están en paradero desconocido en España desde 2013 - Noticias de España
> 
> 
> Search for missing children - Missing Kids UK
> ...


I've edited my post a bit - but yes, apparently a child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK 

most are found very quickly however - the number for both countries is those not found


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I've edited my post a bit - but yes, apparently a child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK
> 
> most are found very quickly however - the number for both countries is those not found


it would be interesting to see the difference between reporting a missing child in the uk, at the same time walking into a police station over here and reporting the same, seeing if the incident in spain ever made it onto any statistic.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I can say from my experience and observation in several tourist towns on CDS and UK over the past 15 years, that the level of ‘reported crime’ in Spain is considerably lower than a comparable town in UK, and that crime involving ‘intended injury’ is extremely low.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I've edited my post a bit - but yes, apparently a child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK
> 
> most are found very quickly however - the number for both countries is those not found


Well, well done to the British police then!


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, well done to the British police then!


Not sue the stats bear out that they are as competent as at first sight may appear,

In UK I believe all missing children reports are logged and go in to the records. Most children are found by their parents, friends etc. before any active police involvement, as they have just wandered off in shopping centres, parks etc.. That is why the number recorded as 'missing' is so high.

PS I would also suspect that the numbers rose along with the use of mobile phones, as it likely that most parents, or someone close by, would call the police immediately they are aware their child is not with them.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> I prob think this level of crime is on the same level as in the UK, prob is in the UK it is liked by the media and get alot of coverage. In spain it is not reported by the media as widely so doesnt exist. I may be wrong, normally am thanks to The Sun, that certain area of portugal were known for such crimes, it was a sort of resort for them, it was only the maddy incident that put it out there and let us all know how common a prob it was and is...a client i have in Barcelona will not even entertain the idea that this sort of crime happens in spain, if it does it is a problem imported by the british!!!!!!


I think that could well be the case, or at least it was. What I mean is that there are no no newspaper equivalent newspapers here to the Sun, Daily Mail, Express and such like. (There used to be EL Caso, anyone remember that one?)Our local paper isn't anything like the local paper my parents receive either; it's a much more serious affair. News on tv doesn't tend to dwell on small local events either. So, as you say, this kind of crime in not well covered in the traditional media
However, nowadays we have social media and I think I think that may fill the gap somewhat. Also rubbish tv is doing a good job of fanning the shock/ horror news stories, especially morning tv from what I've seen!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I've edited my post a bit - but yes, apparently a child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK
> 
> most are found very quickly however - the number for both countries is those not found


But these aren't all crime stats though. Kids go missing of their own accord. I'd be interested in knowing how many actually get abducted, and whether the levels of anxiety and over-protectiveness found in the UK are actually justified.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> But these aren't all crime stats though. Kids go missing of their own accord. I'd be interested in knowing how many actually get abducted, and whether the levels of anxiety and over-protectiveness found in the UK are actually justified.


true - but I thought it would be interesting to see how many kids really go missing in Spain - & stay missing - as opposed to in the UK


& of course with those who stay missing - which is what these figures are - we don't know if there is crime involved or not


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I didn't see much anxiety and over-protectiveness on the tough estate where I worked in the UK...quite the opposite. Children as young as four were put out like the cat. Well past midnight you could see young children, under the age of twelve, out on the streets.
It may be different in 'nicer' areas, I don't know. My very middle-class dil wasn't over-protective of her boys but they had set hours to be home by and had to say where and with whom they were going. Just as with me and my very working-class mum!
I may be wrong but it seems that most cases of child abduction don't take place in leafy middle-class areas but in tough estates where parental supervision is slack to the point of being non-existent. On 'my' estate the number of deaths of young people under the age of eighteen I knew of was horrendous. Three young children died in a fire one Saturday morning, playing with lighters whilst parents had a lie-in, road traffic accidents, drug-related deaths, even two murders and one rape.
Child abductors will commit their horrible crimes where it's easiest to do so, which is where there are very large numbers of children playing out of their houses and gardens unsupervised.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I didn't see much anxiety and over-protectiveness on the tough estate where I worked in the UK...quite the opposite. Children as young as four were put out like the cat. Well past midnight you could see young children, under the age of twelve, out on the streets.
> It may be different in 'nicer' areas, I don't know. My very middle-class dil wasn't over-protective of her boys but they had set hours to be home by and had to say where and with whom they were going. Just as with me and my very working-class mum!
> I may be wrong but it seems that most cases of child abduction don't take place in leafy middle-class areas but in tough estates where parental supervision is slack to the point of being non-existent. On 'my' estate the number of deaths of young people under the age of eighteen I knew of was horrendous. Three young children died in a fire one Saturday morning, playing with lighters whilst parents had a lie-in, road traffic accidents, drug-related deaths, even two murders and one rape.
> Child abductors will commit their horrible crimes where it's easiest to do so, which is where there are very large numbers of children playing out of their houses and gardens unsupervised.


Wasn't that quite a long time ago though?

It was/is certainly evident in Oxford, amongst all social classes. They won't even let them walk to and from school on their own, they are so terrified that evil is lurking in the bushes.

Sad really when most child abuse is committed by friends and family.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Child abductors will commit their horrible crimes where it's easiest to do so, which is where there are very large numbers of children playing out of their houses and gardens unsupervised.


In my experience that was not the case. Children are more likely to be taken from areas where the crime is less likely to be witnessed.

Lots of children means potentially lots of witnesses. 

A lone child in a lonely place, taken by someone who probably is not directly connected with that place, are the most difficult cases. Of course one can only be 100% certain of what happened (and even then not always) if the investigation is successful ether hopefully recovering the child and/or a conviction.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Wasn't that quite a long time ago though?
> 
> It was/is certainly evident in Oxford, amongst all social classes. They won't even let them walk to and from school on their own, they are so terrified that evil is lurking in the bushes.
> 
> Sad really when most child abuse is committed by friends and family.


No, it was quite recent...within the last ten years. 

Things have apparently got worse..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

larryzx said:


> In my experience that was not the case. Children are more likely to be taken from areas where the crime is less likely to be witnessed.
> 
> Lots of children means potentially lots of witnesses.
> 
> A lone child in a lonely place, taken by someone who probably is not directly connected with that place, are the most difficult cases. Of course one can only be 100% certain of what happened (and even then not always) if the investigation is successful ether hopefully recovering the child and/or a conviction.


Your experience may not be typical of most cases of child abduction. To be sure of that we'd have to examine a lot of cases stretching back over decades. When you speak of 'lonely places' I presume you are not referring to the middle of Dartmoor or halfway up Ben Nevis. Anywhere with no adult around can be a lonely and dangerous place for a young child. There are lots of lonely places in cities.
I can assure you that on the estate I worked in for many years there were very many unobserved corners and alleys where muggings and assaults took place. Children are often lured away and abducted from groups of children. One of the worst cases of child abduction that of Jamie Bulger, abducted by other children, occurred in a crowded shopping mall.
The place of abduction is not as important as the degree of adult supervision of children. An unsupervised young child in the middle of Oxford Street can be in danger...in fact more so than ifs/he were in a less crowded place.
My point is about supervision not location.

As for being unknown to the child....it is surely more often the case that the perpetrator is known to the child or lives in the vicinity. It's well-known that women and children are more likely to be assaulted or abused by family members than complete strangers.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> As for being unknown to the child....it is surely more often the case that the perpetrator is known to the child or lives in the vicinity. It's well-known that women and children are more likely to be assaulted or abused by family members than complete strangers.


Yes when there is a link the case is easier to solve. 

The only case involving the abduction/murder of a child I worked on, which we did not solved, was that of David Lawrence, a five year old taken and killed on 8th March 1968 in Southwark. That we could not find any link was the obstacle we could not surmount. 

The unsolved murder of David Lawrence|MurderMap - London Homicide Reported Direct from The Old Bailey


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Even in the centre of Madrid the norm is to find a plaza where the kids can be outside playing and the parents nearby having a coffee or a beer; Plaza Olavide, Plaza Conde Suchil and Plaza Dos de Mayo very near Chueca for example.
> Depending on the age of the children the parents have to be or less "there", but unless they're very small most parents encourage them to go off to a certain distance to play, but *will obviously be keeping an eye out for them*.


and so will be everybody else!


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## Tel Boy (Jul 1, 2014)

I live in a really safe haven near the south downs, but recently my ex suburbian neighbours reported that egg was thrown on there car to the police. I think it was logged as a crime, oh my lord, and im not religious.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I've edited my post a bit - but yes, apparently a child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK
> 
> most are found very quickly however - the number for both countries is those not found





ssbn02 said:


> it would be interesting to see the difference between reporting a missing child in the uk, at the same time walking into a police station over here and reporting the same, seeing if the incident in spain ever made it onto any statistic.





larryzx said:


> I can say from my experience and observation in several tourist towns on CDS and UK over the past 15 years, that the level of ‘reported crime’ in Spain is considerably lower than a comparable town in UK, and that crime involving ‘intended injury’ is extremely low.


I'm sure all of these points influence in the numbers. I find it difficult to believe there's such a high number of missing children in Spain compared to the UK, but maybe that's right??


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ssbn02 said:


> I prob think this level of crime is on the same level as in the UK, prob is in the UK it is liked by the media and get alot of coverage. In spain it is not reported by the media as widely so doesnt exist. I may be wrong, normally am thanks to The Sun, that certain area of portugal were known for such crimes, it was a sort of resort for them, it was only the maddy incident that put it out there and let us all know how common a prob it was and is...a client i have in Barcelona will not even entertain the idea that this sort of crime happens in spain, if it does it is a problem imported by the british!!!!!!


There is a very distuturbing spate of cases of child abduction by a paedophile going on in Madrid right now (although thankfully the children have been released) and they are certainly being reported in the Spanish press - the latest one is in both El Pais and Diario Sur today:-
El pederasta de Madrid secuestra a otra niña y la libera a la hora y media | Madrid | EL PAÃ�S

We had a case locally a couple of years ago when a man attempted to snatch a 12 year old girl off the street and force her into his car as she was walking home from an after-school sports session, but luckily she managed to get out of the car and run away. The man was identified as a convicted paedophile from North Wales who had been released from prison and believed to be living in Spain for a few months. Within 6 months of this incident the man was caught in Morocco having attempted other abductions there.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> There is a very distuturbing spate of cases of child abduction by a paedophile going on in Madrid right now (although thankfully the children have been released) and they are certainly being reported in the Spanish press - the latest one is in both El Pais and Diario Sur today:-
> El pederasta de Madrid secuestra a otra niña y la libera a la hora y media | Madrid | EL PAÃ�S
> 
> We had a case locally a couple of years ago when a man attempted to snatch a 12 year old girl off the street and force her into his car as she was walking home from an after-school sports session, but luckily she managed to get out of the car and run away. The man was identified as a convicted paedophile from North Wales who had been released from prison and believed to be living in Spain for a few months. Within 6 months of this incident the man was caught in Morocco having attempted other abductions there.


How horrible.

However, in general I agree with ssbn22 that there is not so much media coverage of this kind of thing, or at least not as much as in the UK


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Re press coverage.

In the UK reporters from the local papers keep in touch, visit at least weekly, their local police stations and are supplied with 'local news' items. The magistrates courts are attended daily throughout the proceedings by local reporters, thus all local news is picked up and so is available for publication.

In Spain I have never seen a reporter in the police stations I know well. I suspect also that reporters are not in the Courts of First Instant (more or less equivalante to Magistrates' Courts) so I suspect local news is not picked so easily in Spain.

That may explain at least some of the difference in press coverage from one country to the other.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

larryzx said:


> Re press coverage.
> 
> In the UK reporters from the local papers keep in touch, visit at least weekly, their local police stations and are supplied with 'local news' items. The magistrates courts are attended daily throughout the proceedings by local reporters, thus all local news is picked up and so is available for publication.
> 
> ...


Certainly in my area, the police/Ayuntamiento issue press releases almost daily saying that people have been arrested on suspicion of having committed various crimes, which are then reported in the local press, and if they involve more serious crimes Diario Sur, a regional paper covers them too. Latest example:-


La Policía Local detiene a un individuo por un presunto delito de robo con violencia

The attempted abduction of the local girl I referred to was all over local press for weeks, and the follow-up stories about her abductor being tracked down and subsequently being arrested and convicted in Morocco were too.

Here is another example from late last year where an incident involving the abduction of children was reported locally and also picked up by the national press:-


http://www.elmundo.es/andalucia/2013/11/19/528b4f486843415e368b4581.html

Sorry, but I think it is just not true to say that the Spanish press does not report such incidents widely - when they happen.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Certainly in my area, the police/Ayuntamiento issue press releases almost daily saying that people have been arrested on suspicion of having committed various crimes, which are then reported in the local press, and if they involve more serious crimes Diario Sur, a regional paper covers them too. Latest example:-
> 
> 
> La Policía Local detiene a un individuo por un presunto delito de robo con violencia
> ...


here too, regarding press releases

interestingly though, when a 15 year old girl went missing from here in May, there was nothing 'official' for something like 2 weeks

the police & other agencies dealing with it wanted to be allowed to get on with their investigations before there was anything published


she's still missing - her mother has stated publicly that she thinks her daughter has joined a cult - although something like a month after her disappearance her father found a 'suicide note' in her bedroom


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Certainly in my area, the police/Ayuntamiento issue press releases almost daily saying that people have been arrested on suspicion of having committed various crimes, which are then reported in the local press, and if they involve more serious crimes Diario Sur, a regional paper covers them too. Latest example:-
> 
> 
> La Policía Local detiene a un individuo por un presunto delito de robo con violencia
> ...


It seems that this is a case of it depends.
I live in a large town outside of Madrid (32,000). There is one local free paper which is a dry old thing that comes out once a month and occasionally reports, on half a page, a local incident like some drug traffickers who were caught or once about 5 years ago there was a stabbing, but there are many smaller local incidences which are not reported. There is no other local paper.
In national press of course there stories are printed about muggings/ sexual assaults/ robberies but personally I don't see the same amount of page space given to them nor the same length of time given to covering a story - and this approach has its pluses and its minuses as does the opposite so I'm not saying that one approach is better than another, but I do think there's a difference.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> here too, regarding press releases
> 
> interestingly though, when a 15 year old girl went missing from here in May, there was nothing 'official' for something like 2 weeks
> 
> ...


There must be press releases, but whether they are written up by a jounalist in a newspaper or other media or not is another matter

Actually, I do see a lot more of those "human interest" stories on morning tv shows. Have you ever tried to watch telly in the morning????????? I think that's where they are given more exposure in Spain. There are certainly no Sun/ Daily Mail type papers as far as I know. However I'm sure they'd sell well here - a business opportunity perhaps


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It seems that this is a case of it depends.
> I live in a large town outside of Madrid (32,000). There is one local free paper which is a dry old thing that comes out once a month and occasionally reports, on half a page, a local incident like some drug traffickers who were caught or once about 5 years ago there was a stabbing, but there are many smaller local incidences which are not reported. There is no other local paper.
> In national press of course there stories are printed about muggings/ sexual assaults/ robberies but personally I don't see the same amount of page space given to them nor the same length of time given to covering a story - and this approach has its pluses and its minuses as does the opposite so I'm not saying that one approach is better than another, but I do think there's a difference.


of course the newspapers will decide what is reported

I get the press releases - very often the info doesn't make it to the local press


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> here too, regarding press releases
> 
> interestingly though, when a 15 year old girl went missing from here in May, there was nothing 'official' for something like 2 weeks
> 
> ...


Her poor parents, they must be worried sick.

The most recent case I remember locally was a few years ago now, when a 15 year old boy went missing from Canillas de Aceituno, a small village in La Axarquia. That was reported in the press immediately, and made the national press too:-


Desaparece un menor de 15 años en un pueblo de Málaga | Edición impresa | EL PAÃ�S

Tragically, his body was found in the campo 2 weeks later, it was thought that he took his own life.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> ¡ Sorry, but I think it is just not true to say that the Spanish press does not report such incidents widely - when they happen.


(Spanish crime stats) The problem is that unless one knows of all the cases they cannot know how many or what percentage get reported in the press. I have never seen a case which I know was reported as a crime, or someone I know who was arrested, reported in a local paper.

But I accept that is not a scientific observation, albeit that I may get to know about more crimes which are reported and arrests made, which I believe would be reported in UK's local press, than many other citizens.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Her poor parents, they must be worried sick.
> 
> The most recent case I remember locally was a few years ago now, when a 15 year old boy went missing from Canillas de Aceituno, a small village in La Axarquia. That was reported in the press immediately, and made the national press too:-
> 
> ...


yes as soon as allowed, it made the national press & TV - & was also reported Internationally - there are/were links to Germany & the Ukraine

but she hasn't been found to date

awful too, for that lad's parents - but I suppose at least they know 


during the searches here, the skeleton of a fortyish year old male was found in one of the caves on Montgó !


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

just caught this on the TV this morning

El secuestrador de ni?as de Ciudad Lineal vuelve a actuar en la zona | Madrid | EL MUNDO




> Este agresor también es sospechoso de raptar en abril a una niña de nueve años en el mismo distrito, concretamente en el *parque de San Juan Bautista*. La víctima fue encontrada aturdida cinco horas después en una boca del Metro de Canillas. El mismo día, el secuestrador habría intentado raptar a una niña de origen japonés en la calle Torrelaguna, aunque esta menor pudo huir.


translation: The offender is also suspected of abducting a 9 year old girl in April in the same district, in the San Juan Bautista park. The dazed victim was found five hours later in an entrance to the Canillas Metro . The same day, the kidnapper tried to abduct a girl of Japanese origin in C/ Torrelaguna, although this child was able to flee.




I've been wondering if the _perception_ among the British expat population here in Spain, that this type of crime doesn't happen here, is largely due to the fact that so very many don't watch Spanish TV nor read the Spanish press? The English language press tends to be local/regional rather than national - & obviously UK TV channels don't show Spanish news....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> just caught this on the TV this morning
> 
> El secuestrador de ni?as de Ciudad Lineal vuelve a actuar en la zona | Madrid | EL MUNDO
> 
> ...


Yes apparently this was front page news on every major newspaper in the country according to RNE 1, so there's no disputing that this is being given full coverage, but I'm still of the opinion that there is a different style of reporting amongst Spanish and British newspapers, both national and local. That is not to say that they are not becoming more similar, mainly due, IMO, to the magazine type programmes on the TV (Ana Rosa, Mª Teresa Campos and such like, which as Xabiachica says, I'm sure do not draw a large expat audience) the style of which has been imported from the US via the UK and magazines like Cuore, also imports.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I put it down to stereotyping.....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I put it down to stereotyping.....


hahaha

I know hardly anyone among the Brits here who watch Spanish TV nor read the Spanish press - some do, but they are a tiny minority


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I've been wondering if the _perception_ among the British expat population here in Spain, that this type of crime doesn't happen here, is largely due to the fact that so very many don't watch Spanish TV nor read the Spanish press? The English language press tends to be local/regional rather than national - & obviously UK TV channels don't show Spanish news....


Hopefully, the police are a step closer to catching the man who is committing these crimes in Madrid now that they have a description:-

'Es rubio, corpulento y de cara fina. La ni?a se baj? del coche y le sigui?' | Madrid | EL MUNDO

Opinion seems to be divided, judging by this thread, between those expats who don't think this type of crime happens here, and those who believe it happens but people aren't aware of it because the Spanish press doesn't report it.

You have, of course, touched upon the possible explanation for those perceptions - that many expats don't read the Spanish press or watch Spanish tv.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Another attempt made to abduct a child in Madrid (thankfully unsuccessful).

Intentan sin ?xito raptar a una ni?a en Coslada

Please note, press coverage taken from a regional newspaper covering an area nowhere near Madrid - ergo, these crimes do receive widespread press coverage.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Another attempt made to abduct a child in Madrid (thankfully unsuccessful).
> 
> Intentan sin ?xito raptar a una ni?a en Coslada
> 
> Please note, press coverage taken from a regional newspaper covering an area nowhere near Madrid - ergo, these crimes do receive widespread press coverage.


Sorry, Lynn, I still don't agree. _*This*_ case is receiving a lot of coverage, but there are many others that aren't, and I think this is the typical case that has got caught up in the media (which is not a bad thing) because it's the summer, and for some reason I've never been able to fathom there's not so much "news" then. Also there was a comment from of the officers in the case about back to school coming up and the press latched on to that.
There are fashions in news stories too. A few years ago it suddenly became the thing to report on domestic abuse cases and now it's very common to hear news about this. Maybe this will be another craze.
Not such a bad thing, even though some of the reporting is definitely on the shock, horror, probe side.
Anyway I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We had a lot on a case about Marta Castillo (involving a group of boys), whose body has not yet been found. It occurred, I think, 2009 and still comes up from time to time. 

Another about two young kids disappeared/murdered in Córdoba (parental dispute).

Occasionally a marital violence case makes the headlines.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> We had a lot on a case about Marta Castillo (involving a group of boys), whose body has not yet been found. It occurred, I think, 2009 and still comes up from time to time.
> 
> Another about two young kids disappeared/murdered in Córdoba (parental dispute).
> 
> Occasionally a marital violence case makes the headlines.


Two women have been killed by their partners in recent weeks not so far from here - one in Malaga capital and one who lived in Torrox Costa (the victim was Director of the Nerja History Museum). Both received lots of press coverage, with typical quotes from relatives and neighbours.

In recent days the press has been full of a case where a young woman reported that she had been raped in the early hours of the morning after leaving her temporary job in one of the casetas at the Malaga Feria, by a gang of five young men, two of them minors. They were all arrested, but according to the news coverage many inconsistencies appeared in her story and witnesses came forward whose statements led the judge to believe that the sexual acts were consensual and he released the defendants. There have been reports that the young woman may face charges of making a false denuncia.

The biggest case I remember of child murder was little Mari-Luz in Sevilla, who went missing and it transpired she'd been murdered by a paedophile neighbour. That was huge in terms of press coverage.

Oh, and the case of Amy Fitzpatrick who went missing on the CDS a few years ago now and I don't think has ever been found. Likewise, lots of press coverage - and that one did make the English language press in the area too.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

And José Breton
And Las niñas del Alcácer/Alcassèr
Amy Fitzpatrick didn't make big headlines here as far as I know, and of course it would make the British press
Yes, there are always big cases, all of them horrible and we don't need to drag them all up


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Here's something new to talk about - gangs of Dutch and German bikers.

Spain on alert over new biker gangs


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And José Breton
> And Las niñas del Alcácer/Alcassèr
> Amy Fitzpatrick didn't make big headlines here as far as I know, and of course it would make the British press
> Yes, there are always big cases, all of them horrible and we don't need to drag them all up


Amy Fitzpatrick's disappearance certainly DID make the Spanish national press, right from the very early days after she went missing:-


La Guardia Civil busca a una menor irlandesa desaparecida en Mijas | Edición impresa | EL PAÃ�S

I am not sure why you say "we don't need to drag them all up". If we don't produce examples of where such cases have indeed been reported in the Spanish press, and not just one which you claim has been latched onto, how are we to counter the argument that the Spanish press doesn't report them, or doesn't report them widely?


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> Amy Fitzpatrick's disappearance certainly DID make the Spanish national press, right from the very early days after she went missing:-
> 
> 
> La Guardia Civil busca a una menor irlandesa desaparecida en Mijas | Edición impresa | EL PAÃ�S
> ...


counter the argument, there is no argument. spain does not report, feel the need to report in the press or media in general as many crimes against minors as they do in the uk. yes of course they have news articles etc but i think the delightful subject on this was just that it is not as widely reported as lets say the uk. i cant see where it says they do not report them or put the reports out to the press. even more so in portugal, might be due to the catholic mafia, who knows. then again maybe not catholics as this never happened in Eire.

if you want to find an argument over something then tell me why over the weekend my local cafe served me steak from the uk and not a spanish chunk of beef as it was cheaper to buy and get from the uk!!!!!! the owner was telling me if he shows a uk provenance on the menu he can charge more!!!!!! I understand from my daughter I should end comments or observations like this with WTF!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

This seems to be developing into one of those threads in which somebody living, often unhappily, in XYZ sometimes having made a bad choice of location, etc looking for excuses to run down XYZ by comparing it with their native home of ABC that usually provoke the wrath of the Mods when somebody dares to say what everybody else is thinking "If ABC is so wonderful, why don't you go back there!"


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> This seems to be developing into one of those threads in which somebody living, often unhappily, in XYZ sometimes having made a bad choice of location, etc looking for excuses to run down XYZ by comparing it with their native home of ABC that usually provoke the wrath of the Mods when somebody dares to say what everybody else is thinking "If ABC is so wonderful, why don't you go back there!"


where is abc


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> This seems to be developing into one of those threads in which somebody living, often unhappily, in XYZ sometimes having made a bad choice of location, etc looking for excuses to run down XYZ by comparing it with their native home of ABC that usually provoke the wrath of the Mods when somebody dares to say what everybody else is thinking "If ABC is so wonderful, why don't you go back there!"


'Mods' and most other folk are fully aware that its really isnt that simplistic or straight forward! So it's a pointless and unhelpful comment don't you think

Jo xx


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ssbn02 said:


> counter the argument, there is no argument. spain does not report, feel the need to report in the press or media in general as many crimes against minors as they do in the uk. yes of course they have news articles etc but i think the delightful subject on this was just that it is not as widely reported as lets say the uk. i cant see where it says they do not report them or put the reports out to the press. even more so in portugal, might be due to the catholic mafia, who knows. then again maybe not catholics as this never happened in Eire.
> 
> if you want to find an argument over something then tell me why over the weekend my local cafe served me steak from the uk and not a spanish chunk of beef as it was cheaper to buy and get from the uk!!!!!! the owner was telling me if he shows a uk provenance on the menu he can charge more!!!!!! I understand from my daughter I should end comments or observations like this with WTF!!!


I have rarely read anything so garbled and illogical so certainly won't waste my time attempting to unravel it.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I have rarely read anything so garbled and illogical so certainly won't waste my time attempting to unravel it.


'''how are we to counter the argument that the Spanish press doesn't report them, or doesn't report them widely?''

the above is not a true statement, from what i re read on the forums. Illogical, no i dont think it was, yes I tried to bring a little humour into the postings as its not a very nice subject to harp on about, a pissing in the wind competition between expats on who or who does not report the most on child crimes....and a palm off to those that may not agree with you or maybe even see things in a different way is not really the basis to hold a debate.....maybe in my illogical garbled brain i am wrong and maybe the forums are better suited to cake recipes, where to buy incontinent pants and best places to live in spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> '''how are we to counter the argument that the Spanish press doesn't report them, or doesn't report them widely?''
> 
> the above is not a true statement, from what i re read on the forums. Illogical, no i dont think it was, yes I tried to bring a little humour into the postings as its not a very nice subject to harp on about, a pissing in the wind competition between expats on who or who does not report the most on child crimes....and a palm off to those that may not agree with you or maybe even see things in a different way is not really the basis to hold a debate.....maybe in my illogical garbled brain i am wrong and maybe the forums are better suited to cake recipes, *where to buy incontinent pants* and best places to live in spain.


Mercadona


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Just as in the UK, there is in Spain the tabloid press and the more 'substantial' press read by we right-on people.

Two things I know are that 1) domestic violence is more prevalent in Spain than in the UK and 2) Seventy years ago Spain indulged in a killing spree that left up to five hundred thousand men, women and children killed. That surely constitutes violent crime.
There even today are a few on both left and right of the political divide that would like to see a rematch.

Comparing statistics tells you nothing, really. Now the UK media spreads its tentacles nation-wide a child murder or rape that fifty years ago might not have been known outside the area where it took place is now national headline news and, to our shame, infotainment.
This often sows alarm and panic and gives the impression that crime is all around us and your next-door neighbour might be eyeing up your wife or child with malevolent attempt.

We cannot of course say that Spain is less crime-prone and violent than the UK unless we have an array of statistics from all regions going back at least fifty years lest we be perpetuating stereotypes.


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