# Transferring UK SIPP to a provider with access from Mexico



## Ibris77 (3 mo ago)

Hello,

I am living currently in UK and have a UK based SIPP in Vanguard. I am considering moving to Mexico and want to find the provider to transfer the SIPP to. With Vanguard I can 1) manage my investments myself 2) the withdrawal scheme is quite clear and transparent. 

Any advisers/providers/solutions you could recommend for me to consider. While checking the offshore solutions, i.e.*GOWER PENSIONS MANAGEMENT LIMITED *it is unclear, how trustworthy that provider is. Is there either your personal experience with some of these providers or/and a source where I can read more of people's experiences with some of these solutions? 

How to go about finding the advisor for the International SIPP solutions? One I have contacted so far literally advised me to just send all money to their fund and they (presumably) will manage it for me. Which was far less than ideal.

Thank you and best regards.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I have more questions for you than answers, I'm afraid, because I'm not familiar with UK tax laws. I don't know whether there are any regular posters here who are from the UK. 

For the US, the normal advice is to leave the plan in place in the US and manage it remotely. But part of that answer is due to the fact that the US will tax you heavily if you withdraw the money to a non-qualified plan, and if you move it to an overseas IRA (US equivalent to a SIPP) the US will _still _tax you on withdrawals. So you don't gain anything tax-wise by moving it, and you typically lose investment alternatives and get stuck with greater fees.

So for the UK - if you move the plan to Mexico, what UK taxes will you be liable for? Will there be taxes on the whole amount at the time of the move? Will there be UK taxes later when you withdraw? Or are there no taxes on withdrawals from this sort of plan in the UK in the first place?

Regardless of the tax answers, my advice would be to leave all your money and UK banking accounts active while you are moving, and only think about closing anything after you're completely set up in Mexico and have time to open 'destination' accounts. Waiting at least a year after you move is not unreasonable at all. 

What do other people retiring from the UK and moving overseas typically do? You might get better info on other country forums that have more Brits.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Some random thoughts - you say you are considering moving to Mexico. Have you visited a Mexican consulate and discussed the requirements to become a resident of Mexico ? There are certainly income requirements, either salary or investment. Perhaps you are going to need your UK investments for proof of your financial solvency ? I suspect that no respectable/sizable Mexican financial institution would discuss investment opportunities unless you had residency status (and likely the permanent flavor). You are going to need an RFC. My personal experience - it is rather important to have a relationship with the people you invest with in Mexico. It is kind of an individual/local thing. For example a person having dealings with Banco A in Cancun very likely may have a different experience than someone having dealings with Banco A in Mexico City. The level of your financial commitment might influence the 'quality' of your experience. Unless you are fluent in Spanish I suggest you seek out a local bilingual 'representative' after landing in Mexico. Whenever dealing with international financial transactions don't lose sight of related fees - such as currency exchange rates etc. Finally - make no assumptions that financial transactions conducted in Mexico are conducted in a manner you are accustomed to in the UK. Good Luck.


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## Ibris77 (3 mo ago)

Thank you every one for replying. 

@eastwind
In regards to Taxes - for SIPP as for IRA I will be taxed on withdrawals, but as far as I understand not at the time of the withdrawal, but as an Income tax at the end of the year, when I file the tax declaration.

Mexico and UK have double taxation agreement. Which means (on the high level as I haven't investigated that in full) that I will have to pay the Income tax in Mexico and not in UK. 

There won't be tax on the whole amount at the time of moving it to another provider if that provider is QROPS (Qualified Recognised Oversees Pension Scheme) qualified. But unfortunately there are no QROPS providers in Mexico. And yes, there will be 55% transfer tax if the provider is not QROPS qualified.

Which leads to one possible option (it seems) some kind of offshore solution. The offshore solution as far as I understand, is simply a company registered offshore from the mainland UK, i.e. on the Island of Man or Gower in my above example. I am still researching, but some of these solutions, although similar in terms of taxation and withdrawal rules, are not transparent at all. I.e. I won't be able to manage my investments and not sure how much information I can get about my account in general, which is less than ideal.

If I won't have an UK postal address (i.e. if I sell my house), then I technically won't be able to keep SIPP account as to have it the UK proof of address is required. At that point ideally I would need a provider to transfer my pension to. I know that there is Vanguard in Mexico and I am sure they will be happy to take cash to open an account, but need to check and almost sure they won't be able to transfer SIPP from UK. 



eastwind said:


> Regardless of the tax answers, my advice would be to leave all your money and UK banking accounts active while you are moving, and only think about closing anything after you're completely set up in Mexico and have time to open 'destination' accounts. Waiting at least a year after you move is not unreasonable at all.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. I will keep my house for some time anyway and thus can keep the bank accounts and the pensions running.



MangoTango said:


> Have you visited a Mexican consulate and discussed the requirements to become a resident of Mexico ?


Not yet, but I am aware of the requirements and pretty sure I can satisfy them. No, I don't need to show SIPP for that. 



MangoTango said:


> I suspect that no respectable/sizable Mexican financial institution would discuss investment opportunities unless you had residency status


Hmm, the main question is really can that institution accept a SIPP transfer (and that transfer should be possible without 55% withdrawal tax) and of course how reputable they are.

@MangoTango Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights. Will keep it in mind when dealing with Mexican organisations.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Again I have to start with "I don't know about the UK, but..."

In the US, the residence requirement is applied at the time the accounts are opened. Once you open the accounts, all you need is a US mailing address to maintain them. After that all you need is a little constructive non-communication with the financial institution (you don't tell them you moved overseas unless they ask, which they won't, unless you give them reason to, which you shouldn't).

So in the US what people do is set up a mailbox with a service that can forward mail, or scan and email your mail to you. Or they line up a relative to deal with it for them. You do that well ahead of time, then, while you are still in your house, you change your 'mailing address' to the forwarder and make sure that is working (they will typically send an acknowlegement to both new and old addresses, so you need to collect that at the house). Then you are set as long as you maintain that forwarding service or willing volunteer forwarder.

At that point you can sell the house. 

Of course if you have the means to not sell the house, keeping it for a while after you move to Mexico is good for other reasons - it gives you a fall-back if you find out you don't like living in Mexico. Just the availability of that fall-back can make it psychologically easier to put up with things about Mexico you discover that annoy you (and which, of course, you can't change). No matter where you move, there will always be some of those, but for a few expats they can become overwhelming and some percentage of expats return within a year. That's also one reason why people recommend renting for a year in Mexico first. (The other big reason is to get familiar with the way things work here so you don't end up getting ripped off).


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Ibris77 said:


> Mexico and UK have double taxation agreement. Which means (on the high level as I haven't investigated that in full) that I will have to pay the Income tax in Mexico and not in UK.


Not quite, if I have it right. My understanding is that the double taxation agreement means you can pay tax in one of the countries, and deduct it from what you owe to the other. So you can choose which way gives you an advantage.


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## Ibris77 (3 mo ago)

@eastwind yes, makes perfect sense in terms of how to go about the address. Will start investigation on the forwarding mailbox. Selling the house might be a little cumbersome if I relocate as I need to organise it with the agency to do the viewings and potential repair work(s) without me being present much. But it is doable. 

@maesonna Yes, I think you are right. This is the way it works.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

_If I won't have an UK postal address (i.e. if I sell my house), then I technically won't be able to keep SIPP account as to have it the UK proof of address is required ....._

I don't have a UK address and I have had a SIPP for years there with AJ Bell Youinvest .....

QROPS have been discussed for years on this forum and others, and as far as I understand, no-one has been able to move their SIPP.


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## Ibris77 (3 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> I don't have a UK address and I have had a SIPP for years there with AJ Bell Youinvest .....


Sorry a little bit late in replying. Good to know thanks for sharing. I have mine with Vanguard UK currently. Although I know that there is Vanguard Mexico, but as everyone seems to be saying, not possible to move SIPP to it...


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