# Need signature notarized



## VVChuck

I'm living in La Paz and need my signature notarized for a US pension application. Where can I get such a thing here in Baja?


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## TundraGreen

VVChuck said:


> I'm living in La Paz and need my signature notarized for a US pension application. Where can I get such a thing here in Baja?


As far as I know, the only place to get a signature notarized on a US document that will be accepted in the US is at the US Embassy in DF or at one of the US Consulate offices. 

There is a Consular Agent in Cabo. It is an extension of the Tijuana Consular office. You could try them.

Consular Agent in Cabo San Lucas
(An extension of the Consulate in Tijuana)

Blvd. Marina Local C-4
Plaza Nautica
Centro
Cabo San
Lucas, B.C.S. 23410

Monday-Friday: 9:00 a.m.-2:00 p.m.

Phone: [52] (624) 143-3566,
Fax: [52] (624) 143-6750

E-Mail: [email protected]

Consular Agent: Trena Brown Schjetnan


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## RVGRINGO

We've used a 'notario' for such things, including real estate located in the USA; no problem.


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## TundraGreen

Okay. I had to have a bank document notarized and they would not accept anything other than the Consular notarization. It cost about $450 mxn incidentally.


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## La Paz

TundraGreen said:


> Okay. I had to have a bank document notarized and they would not accept anything other than the Consular notarization. It cost about $450 mxn incidentally.


The closest authorized US Notary is at the US Consular in Cabo. Someone on another Baja forum had something notarized there & he said the charge was $70-75 (USD equiv). VVChuck, you might explain to the powers-that-be at the pension company that Mexico doesn't have US type notary services & that it'd entail a 6-hour round-trip drive on your part to Cabo & back, so could they possibly see their way clear to accept the Branch Manager of your local bank witnessing your signature....a friend did that in lieu of notary requirement once.


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## RVGRINGO

A 'Notario', in Mexico, is a specialized attorney who is licensed by the state to deal in property matters, wills and other important documents. Regular attorneys aren't allowed to do that, and there is certainly no 'notary public' without any special education, as we had in the USA. There are a few retired here; some of whom have signed documents for other expats, but that is quite illegal because the US notary has no standing outside of his home jurisdiction; certainly not outside of the country. Nevertheless, they do like to charge the same high fees as a 'notario' as they wink and suggest that you are magically transported to a certain US county for a moment.


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## Hound Dog

RVGRINGO said:


> A 'Notario', in Mexico, is a specialized attorney who is licensed by the state to deal in property matters, wills and other important documents. Regular attorneys aren't allowed to do that, and there is certainly no 'notary public' without any special education, as we had in the USA. There are a few retired here; some of whom have signed documents for other expats, but that is quite illegal because the US notary has no standing outside of his home jurisdiction; certainly not outside of the country. Nevertheless, they do like to charge the same high fees as a 'notario' as they wink and suggest that you are magically transported to a certain US county for a moment.


Well, here at Lake Chapala as RV states, there are a number of U.S. licensed notary publics and since going into the Guadalajara consulate is such a pain these days with all the security surrounding the building, we decided to use a U.S. licensed notary resident here for some durable powers of attorney we were executing and she signed as a notary in her home state and county in the U.S. documents clearly stating the documents were signed in the State of Jalisco, Municipality of Chapala. and neither my attorney back in Alabama nor my investment banker in Phoenix AZ had any problem with that. In fact the estate planning department of that investment house which deals with many thousands of international customers where no U.S. notary is easily found, says on their web site that there are alternatives they can suggest if that access is a problem. This major international investment house deals with clients with IRA accounts living all over the world and they expressed no problem with using a U.S. notary on their official documents so it may be illegal as RV says but it seems to be a widespread practice.

Of course, ours was not a real estate transaction or a Mexican will and here in Mexico you would need the services of a Mexican notario for those types of transactions for sure.

Our notario at Lake Chapala charged us $250 Pesos per document or about the equivalent of $23 USD. That is cheaper than the Guadalajara U.S. consulate and I shudder at the thought of going anywhere near there for any reason.


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## TundraGreen

Just to clear up the, only partly mistaken, impression that it is a pain to visit the US Consulate...

It is easy.  You just have to leave everything except your ID at the paqueteria across the street. No lipstick, keys, computers, food, or just about anything else you can imagine. The list of forbidden items is very long. The paqueteria used to be a block away. Now it is very convenient. 

In contrast, I once had occasion to visit the German consulate in Guadalajara. It is on the second floor of a building. On the lower floor there is an auto repair shop. There is no security or any kind of check. We walked straight into the building and were waited on by the German Consul General herself. She was a very nice lady who has lived in Guadalajara forever and speaks German, English and Spanish fluently. It turns out her father runs the auto shop and owns the building. The German government rents space from him. The contrast between the US and German consulates could not be greater.


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## Longford

RVGRINGO said:


> We've used a 'notario' for such things, including real estate located in the USA; no problem.


For documents to be valid and enforceable in the USA, a Notary Public legally appointed for the USA is required. That's why people go to the consulate. A Notario Publico is different and unacceptable for those purposes, from what I'm recalling. I don't know about Mexico-only documents. I'm assuming an attorney or Notario Publico (which is also an attorney) may be, as you say, the route to go. A U.S. Notary wouldn't have much weight in Mexico.

Regarding the comment from someone that he/they used a local resident who was a registered Notary in the USA: I'm a Notary Public in Illinois and my authority does not travel beyond the state in which I'm licensed and there are residency requirements for persons appointed a Notary. Maybe other states have different laws. But I don't think so. For an important document such as a Will/Trust/Power of Attorney I would never cut corners. I probably wouldn't even cut corners on a relatively unimportant document. I believe going to the Consulate is the best course of action.


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## Hound Dog

Longford said:


> For documents to be valid and enforceable in the USA, a Notary Public legally appointed for the USA is required. That's why people go to the consulate. A Notario Publico is different and unacceptable for those purposes, from what I'm recalling. I don't know about Mexico-only documents. I'm assuming an attorney or Notario Publico (which is also an attorney) may be, as you say, the route to go. A U.S. Notary wouldn't have much weight in Mexico.
> 
> Regarding the comment from someone that he/they used a local resident who was a registered Notary in the USA: I'm a Notary Public in Illinois and my authority does not travel beyond the state in which I'm licensed and there are residency requirements for persons appointed a Notary. Maybe other states have different laws. But I don't think so. For an important document such as a Will/Trust/Power of Attorney I would never cut corners. I probably wouldn't even cut corners on a relatively unimportant document. I believe going to the Consulate is the best course of action.


Longford:

You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> Longford:
> 
> You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.


It seems like it is human nature to feel that if something is too expensive or inconvenient then they are justified in finding a short cut. As far as I know, it is illegal for a US notary to notarize something outside of the jurisdiction where they are licensed, as was pointed out earlier in this thread. I believe it is equally illegal for someone to notarize a document if they do not actually witness the signing as suggested above. Maybe someone can correct me on that. Often there are other ways to guarantee a signature. Banks can do that, although when I tried to get a bank here to guarantee my signature they wanted a form in Spanish. However, if you absolutely positively need a US notarized signature and you are in a foreign country, you really have only one option: the consulate/embassy. The alternative---find someone willing to break the rules for you and hope it is never questioned in court---seems a risky shortcut to me.


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## makaloco

It may depend on the purpose of the document and what the party requesting it is willing to accept. My US bank wanted a notarized letter, and when I explained how expensive and impractical it would be to travel to the the consulate to get it done, they said a signature guarantee by a "bank officer" would do. I wrote the letter in English, translated it myself into (definitely imperfect) Spanish on the same page, and signed it in front of my Bancomer branch manager, who also signed and stamped it. There was no charge.


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## Longford

TundraGreen said:


> I believe it is equally illegal for someone to notarize a document if they do not actually witness the signing as suggested above. Maybe someone can correct me on that.


As has been commented already, the answer here depends largely on how much the OP wants to obey the letter/intent of the rules and also the importance of the document. If the document isn't something that's likely to be challenged in the future than the standards might be lessened. Though I don't think that's the right thing to do. An attorney with whom someone has lengthy experience and who speaks via telephone with someone who's in Mexico and who also has signatures on file with which to compare to ... oftentimes will have the signature notarized and sent back to the client. I think someone should consider this latter option only for documeents which are unimportant. I don't understand the reluctance to visit the Consular office if it's not all that far away. Consider it a shopping trip!


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## pappabee

This thread has become very sad for me. Here we are living in Mexico and trying to get people to understand that they must follow the Mexican laws and we find Americans trying to figure out a way to break the US laws.

A notary in most states has very limited powers. Here's the link to more about them: 
Notary public - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not only illegal but it should be immoral for someone to bread their oath and it also should be immoral for someone to ask for that to be done.

If it's that important to have something notarized then it's worth the effort to have it done correctly.


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## Detailman

pappabee said:


> This thread has become very sad for me. Here we are living in Mexico and trying to get people to understand that they must follow the Mexican laws and we find Americans trying to figure out a way to break the US laws.
> 
> A notary in most states has very limited powers. Here's the link to more about them:
> Notary public - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It is not only illegal but it should be immoral for someone to bread their oath and it also should be immoral for someone to ask for that to be done.
> 
> If it's that important to have something notarized then it's worth the effort to have it done correctly.


I definitely agree with what you, TG and Longford have said.

There is one other thing that should be remembered. If a notarized document is called for and other means are used to circumvent the request it might not matter what you were told by someone in a bank or some other place. Despite what they agree to accept they may not be in the ultimate position to make that decision and if it gets to court and a document is challenged you might not have much success in trying to say: "But so and so said that I could do it a different way this time."

Perhaps he had no right (or authority) to say what he did and especially if it contravenes policy. And you can be called on the carpet for knowing that it was supposed to be notarized and instead looking for a "work around" that was not entirely legal.

When it comes to legal documents, which I have handled for over thirty years, dot every "i" and cross every "t". It is the times that you try to circumvent policy that something comes back and bites you in the ass. Especially if it is in the best interest of some company or their legal representative that you get into a disagreement with. You will be left holding the bag.


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## trpt2345

Hound Dog said:


> Longford:
> 
> You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.


Last January I needed a document notarized and went to the consulate in Guadalajara rather than the embassy in DF. (We live in Morelia). We were in and out in fifteen minutes, treated politely by everyone, no problems whatsoever. I thought it curious that most employees were Mexicans who did not speak English, but what the heck. Having dealt with the Mexican consulate in Chicago for many years I thought the US consulate in Guadalajara a model of efficiency.


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## mickisue1

Hound Dog said:


> Longford:
> 
> You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.


It's a common misconception that notarization is (or should be, as this poster seems to argue) transferable nation to nation. In fact, a notarized document, whether from the US or MX or any other country, so far as I know, is only acceptable within that country. 

Just as a doctor needs to be licensed within MX to practice there, even if she's licensed in the US, a notary's stamp only works in her own country.

For internationally needed documents, an apostille is required. Not because the other country is considered inferior, but because that's the way it works, internationally.

I wonder if whatever agency is requiring notarization would accept an apostille?


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## pappabee

If you live at Lakeside and need something notoarized then check out the Lake Chapala Society becaquse they get a visit form the US Consul once a month. They'll notarize a document for $50.00.


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## Hound Dog

_


pappabee said:



If you live at Lakeside and need something notoarized then check out the Lake Chapala Society becaquse they get a visit form the US Consul once a month. They'll notarize a document for $50.00.

Click to expand...

_That´s an excellent idea if one lives in or around the Chapala area. For those of you living even fairly close to the LCS in Ajijic this is a good alternative to visiting the U.S. consulate in Guadalajara which I have had occasion to visit (of necessity) many times over the eleven years I have lived at Lakeside which visits have almost almost always been a pain to deal with for a number of reasons. One does not have to be a member of the LCS in Ajijic to utilize the consular services. They visit the LCS every first Wednesday of each month at about 10:00AM after having visited the American Legion post in Chapala before that the same day. Both venues are open to all.

On the other hand, if one lives, as I also do part of the year, in Chiapas, there are no consular visits and one must travel to consulates in Mérida or Mexico City - very long and expensive journeys - to get something notraized to U.S standards. It seems there must be an alternative way to accomplish one´s goal to have a document notarized to U.S. standards but I have yet to find that alternative.


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## mickisue1

Hound Dog said:


> That´s an excellent idea if one lives in or around the Chapala area. For those of you living even fairly close to the LCS in Ajijic this is a good alternative to visiting the U.S. consulate in Guadalajara which I have had occasion to visit (of necessity) many times over the eleven years I have lived at Lakeside which visits have almost almost always been a pain to deal with for a number of reasons. One does not have to be a member of the LCS in Ajijic to utilize the consular services. They visit the LCS every first Wednesday of each month at about 10:00AM after having visited the American Legion post in Chapala before that the same day. Both venues are open to all.
> 
> On the other hand, if one lives, as I also do part of the year, in Chiapas, there are no consular visits and one must travel to consulates in Mérida or Mexico City - very long and expensive journeys - to get something notraized to U.S standards. It seems there must be an alternative way to accomplish one´s goal to have a document notarized to U.S. standards but I have yet to find that alternative.


If I may ask: what in particular makes it such a pain to visit the consulate in Guadalajara?


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## Jerry S

I have used Mexican notaries in the sale of two houses. Also C Schwab and Citi Bank accepted them.


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## TundraGreen

mickisue1 said:


> If I may ask: what in particular makes it such a pain to visit the consulate in Guadalajara?


As one example, I can recount what happened when I renewed my passport at the Consulate in Guadalajara last month. I filled out the application form on-line. Then I went to the Gdl Consulate web site. It said you need an appointment to renew a passport. I tried to make an appointment, but the site would not let me. You had to be a special case to get an appointment. The site had no option for just a standard renewal. So I emailed them and asked what I should do. They responded that I didn't need an appointment.

The next morning I went to the Consulate. First I carefully emptied my pockets of everything. There is a list posted in front of the Consulate of all the things you are not allowed to bring into the Consulate. The list includes just about everything anyone might carry, not just weapons, but magazines, books, lipstick, mirrors, keys, food, drinks, etc. There is a paqueteria across the street where you can lock up things.

Arriving at the Consulate I was told I needed an appointment before I would be admitted. I explained that I had been told I did not need one for an ordinary passport renewal. After checking with someone the security officer had me fill out an appointment request which he accepted. Then I waited across the street with 20 or so other people. After about an hour, my name was called and I went through the metal detector and entered the Consulate.

Inside the Consulate I was given a number and sat in the waiting area with some 50 other people. My number, as I recall, was 74 and they were on about 50 when I arrived. After about an hour and a half, my number came up. I took the form, my old passport, and a credit card to the window and turned in the form. They took them and told me to wait. About 10 minutes later they called me back to the window and told me everything was in order and I could go.

Total time about 3 hours. On the positive side my new passport was delivered to my house about 8 days later.


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## Longford

Jerry S said:


> I have used Mexican notaries in the sale of two houses. Also C Schwab and Citi Bank accepted them.


Who signs what and where is, most of the time, insignificant. Such things become important if a question of validity arises. Such as in a contested Will. Or with the rightful ownership of real property. My understanding and belief has always been that if a document has some value in the USA then a Notary Public appropriately appointed (by one of the states in the USA) with the right to verify a signature is required. In Mexico the Notario Publico is a substantially more important position than a Notary Public is in the USA. A Notario Public is an attorney appointed/authorized to handle many sorts of transactions .. including the sale of real property. Generally, and maybe specifically ... what a Notario Public may or may not do in Mexico has no legal standing/value in the USA. There may be exceptions. But I don't think so.

Anyhow, the Texas Secretary of State has published information to its website discussing the issue and drawing the contrasts between these two similarly named but different positions which may enlighten us all:

About.com: http://www.sos.state.tx.us/statdoc/notariopublicoarticle.shtml


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> Who signs what and where is, most of the time, insignificant. Such things become important if a question of validity arises. Such as in a contested Will. Or with the rightful ownership of real property. My understanding and belief has always been that if a document has some value in the USA then a Notary Public appropriately appointed (by one of the states in the USA) with the right to verify a signature is required. In Mexico the Notario Publico is a substantially more important position than a Notary Public is in the USA. A Notario Public is an attorney appointed/authorized to handle many sorts of transactions .. including the sale of real property. Generally, and maybe specifically ... what a Notario Public may or may not do in Mexico has no legal standing/value in the USA. There may be exceptions. But I don't think so.
> 
> Anyhow, the Texas Secretary of State has published information to its website discussing the issue and drawing the contrasts between these two similarly named but different positions which may enlighten us all:
> 
> About.com: http://www.sos.state.tx.us/statdoc/notariopublicoarticle.shtml


Nice article. Thanks for posting it.

There are many terms that sound similar in English and Spanish but have very different meanings. Notary Public/Notario Publico is one of the important ones. 

Some others that are notable:
Embarrassed/Embarazada
Grocery/Groseria


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## mickisue1

TundraGreen said:


> As one example, I can recount what happened when I renewed my passport at the Consulate in Guadalajara last month. I filled out the application form on-line. Then I went to the Gdl Consulate web site. It said you need an appointment to renew a passport. I tried to make an appointment, but the site would not let me. You had to be a special case to get an appointment. The site had no option for just a standard renewal. So I emailed them and asked what I should do. They responded that I didn't need an appointment.
> 
> The next morning I went to the Consulate. First I carefully emptied my pockets of everything. There is a list posted in front of the Consulate of all the things you are not allowed to bring into the Consulate. The list includes just about everything anyone might carry, not just weapons, but magazines, books, lipstick, mirrors, keys, food, drinks, etc. There is a paqueteria across the street where you can lock up things.
> 
> Arriving at the Consulate I was told I needed an appointment before I would be admitted. I explained that I had been told I did not need one for an ordinary passport renewal. After checking with someone the security officer had me fill out an appointment request which he accepted. Then I waited across the street with 20 or so other people. After about an hour, my name was called and I went through the metal detector and entered the Consulate.
> 
> Inside the Consulate I was given a number and sat in the waiting area with some 50 other people. My number, as I recall, was 74 and they were on about 50 when I arrived. After about an hour and a half, my number came up. I took the form, my old passport, and a credit card to the window and turned in the form. They took them and told me to wait. About 10 minutes later they called me back to the window and told me everything was in order and I could go.
> 
> Total time about 3 hours. On the positive side my new passport was delivered to my house about 8 days later.


Thanks for the detailed reply, Will.

Aside from the forbidding of magazines, etc, it sounds like any dealings with any government agency: excessively redundant procedures, inadequately trained people on the front lines, and too few employees to deal with too many citizens.

I can see why one would prefer not to spend three hours waiting for a notarization. Given that you can walk into a bank in the US, and any officer will do it for free.


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## Longford

mickisue1 said:


> I can see why one would prefer not to spend three hours waiting for a notarization. Given that you can walk into a bank in the US, and any officer will do it for free.


The difference being ... you wouldn't be in the USA. It's not common or frequent that the average expat living in Mexico would need to have a document notarized to USA standards/acceptance while in Mexico. When the situation does occur I think the wait is relatively insignificant.


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## mickisue1

Longford said:


> The difference being ... you wouldn't be in the USA. It's not common or frequent that the average expat living in Mexico would need to have a document notarized to USA standards/acceptance while in Mexico. When the situation does occur I think the wait is relatively insignificant.


Exactly. But if one has spent a lifetime in the US (and many, many expats are not only having their first experience living in another country, they are having their first experiences BEING in another country for an extended time) it's understandable that the protocols at a consulate would seem overly time-consuming in comparison to what one is used to.

Also, if, again, one is not used to the levels of security at government buildings, that even higher level of security at a consulate may seem, in the words of one poster here, "humiliating."

I'm not saying that I agree. Just that I have some sympathy for that POV. 

I deal with people all the time who think that driving from the far northern suburbs into the downtown area is "scary". I can only imagine their pain at dealing with consular rules and regulations.


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> The difference being ... you wouldn't be in the USA. It's not common or frequent that the average expat living in Mexico would need to have a document notarized to USA standards/acceptance while in Mexico. When the situation does occur I think the wait is relatively insignificant.


I am not sure why the situation has gotten worse there. I went to the same consulate twice a few years ago and only waited a few minutes each time. Most of the people waiting are there for visa interviews, US visas that is. But they have separate windows for that so you are not in line behind them for US citizen services like notarization or passports.


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## pappabee

mickisue1 said:


> Exactly. But if one has spent a lifetime in the US (and many, many expats are not only having their first experience living in another country, they are having their first experiences BEING in another country for an extended time) it's understandable that the protocols at a consulate would seem overly time-consuming in comparison to what one is used to.
> 
> Also, if, again, one is not used to the levels of security at government buildings, that even higher level of security at a consulate may seem, in the words of one poster here, "humiliating."
> 
> I'm not saying that I agree. Just that I have some sympathy for that POV.
> 
> I deal with people all the time who think that driving from the far northern suburbs into the downtown area is "scary". I can only imagine their pain at dealing with consular rules and regulations.


Security has gotten much tighter all over the world. Just go into the Capitol in Washington ( or government buildings in ANY state) and loudly proclaim how much you dislike Obama and see what type of TLC you get. And yet they don't walk around toting AK47's and bullet proof vests. In Mexico the security is more obvious and not so hidden.


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## Longford

pappabee said:


> Security has gotten much tighter all over the world. Just go into the Capitol in Washington ( or government buildings in ANY state) and loudly proclaim how much you dislike Obama and see what type of TLC you get. And yet they don't walk around toting AK47's and bullet proof vests. In Mexico the security is more obvious and not so hidden.


One of the differences in security as compared to what exists in better developed nations, including the USA and Canada, is that in Mexico the security personnel tend to be drawn from the least educated, most ignorant and most fearful ... and that's why there's such a _show_ of force. Just ask them to (or if they have the need to) use the weapons and you'll quickly see how incompetent they are. there are few exceptions. I'm not referring to elements of the Mexican military in my criticism. Most intelligent expats and people who travel extensively understand why security procedures exist at most if not all Embassies and Consulates.


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## tepetapan

Longford said:


> One of the differences in security as compared to what exists in better developed nations, including the USA and Canada, is that in Mexico the security personnel tend to be drawn from the least educated, most ignorant and most fearful ... and that's why there's such a _show_ of force. Just ask them to (or if they have the need to) use the weapons and you'll quickly see how incompetent they are. there are few exceptions. I'm not referring to elements of the Mexican military in my criticism. Most intelligent expats and people who travel extensively understand why security procedures exist at most if not all Embassies and Consulates.


:confused2:.....


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## mickisue1

Longford said:


> One of the differences in security as compared to what exists in better developed nations, including the USA and Canada, is that in Mexico the security personnel tend to be drawn from the least educated, most ignorant and most fearful ... and that's why there's such a _show_ of force. Just ask them to (or if they have the need to) use the weapons and you'll quickly see how incompetent they are. there are few exceptions. I'm not referring to elements of the Mexican military in my criticism. Most intelligent expats and people who travel extensively understand why security procedures exist at most if not all Embassies and Consulates.


There is also that "show of force" mentality that says that if you scare people, you can control them.

When my brother and sister in law lived in Romania, I didn't understand how truly different it was, till she came to visit when the kids were 8 and 5. We were walking around downtown Mpls, and the five year old asked why there weren't any police in Minnesota. 

We replied that, yes, there were, of course, police. He responded that it didn't look like it, because there were no policemen on the corners with machine guns.

That's what he'd gotten used to in Romania.


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## Bajaceresa

*Legal notary services in Mexico*

As of July 1, 2012 you can have your documents notarized LEGALLY online. The State of Virginia has approved eNotarizations through their eNotaries, dispensing with the need for a person to physically appear before the notary. Only eNotaries in Virginia are allowed to provide this service, but the service is available to everyone, everywhere needing a document notarized for use in the US. Google "enotary" for a list of service providers. The ones I found charge $14.95 per document. Anyone owning a PC with camera and scanner can do this from the privacy of their own home. Finally! An inexpensive, legal way for ex-pats to get their documents notarized without having to pay $50 per document at the US Consulate office or $25 to someone who is breaking the law.



Hound Dog said:


> Well, here at Lake Chapala as RV states, there are a number of U.S. licensed notary publics and since going into the Guadalajara consulate is such a pain these days with all the security surrounding the building, we decided to use a U.S. licensed notary resident here for some durable powers of attorney we were executing and she signed as a notary in her home state and county in the U.S. documents clearly stating the documents were signed in the State of Jalisco, Municipality of Chapala. and neither my attorney back in Alabama nor my investment banker in Phoenix AZ had any problem with that. In fact the estate planning department of that investment house which deals with many thousands of international customers where no U.S. notary is easily found, says on their web site that there are alternatives they can suggest if that access is a problem. This major international investment house deals with clients with IRA accounts living all over the world and they expressed no problem with using a U.S. notary on their official documents so it may be illegal as RV says but it seems to be a widespread practice.
> 
> Of course, ours was not a real estate transaction or a Mexican will and here in Mexico you would need the services of a Mexican notario for those types of transactions for sure.
> 
> Our notario at Lake Chapala charged us $250 Pesos per document or about the equivalent of $23 USD. That is cheaper than the Guadalajara U.S. consulate and I shudder at the thought of going anywhere near there for any reason.


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