# Lousy Product Alert



## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Back in February I purchased a new office chair from S&R in Cebu. However, last week two of the caster wheels suddenly broke while I was sitting in my chair. I'm not really that heavy, and I only weigh around 80 kilograms or so. I looked at the wheels very carefully, and the seem to be made from very light weight abs plastic, and I can actually deform the wheels by squeezing them with my hand. 

Of course back in the state such an unsafe product probably wouldn't make it to the store shelf, but over here anything goes, and I'm surprised that something like this is being sold at S&R.

I don't know the actual model number of the chair. It has a chrome base, black fabric padding, and plastic arm rests. Apart from the substandard caster wheels it seems to be a decent enough office chair, and it looks similar to the chair that I had at my last job in California. However, in this case if you put too much weight on anyone of its wheels, you could find yourself laying on the floor as I did. I've looked all over the place, can't find suitable replacement wheels, so I guess I'm just our of luck. Lesson learned. Be very very careful when purchasing furniture here.


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## overmyer (Aug 15, 2013)

Maxx62 said:


> Back in February I purchased a new office chair from S&R in Cebu. However, last week two of the caster wheels suddenly broke while I was sitting in my chair. I'm not really that heavy, and I only weigh around 80 kilograms or so. I looked at the wheels very carefully, and the seem to be made from very light weight abs plastic, and I can actually deform the wheels by squeezing them with my hand.
> 
> Of course back in the state such an unsafe product probably wouldn't make it to the store shelf, but over here anything goes, and I'm surprised that something like this is being sold at S&R.
> 
> I don't know the actual model number of the chair. It has a chrome base, black fabric padding, and plastic arm rests. Apart from the substandard caster wheels it seems to be a decent enough office chair, and it looks similar to the chair that I had at my last job in California. However, in this case if you put too much weight on anyone of its wheels, you could find yourself laying on the floor as I did. I've looked all over the place, can't find suitable replacement wheels, so I guess I'm just our of luck. Lesson learned. Be very very careful when purchasing furniture here.


Ah, the joys of "Made in China!
Something like that happened to me. I had a month old desk/computer chair that I was sitting in when my darling wife flung herself into my lap. The weld on one of the caster legs gave way. Down we went!


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

The first desk chair I bought did not last long. The plastic arms cracked and I reinforced them by bolting metal strips on each side. Then the plastic wheels broke and I could not find a way to replace them.

Now I think I may have the same chair that you have. I shopped around a lot found this one at Pure Gold (same company as S & R) for 20% off, which was around $110 USD. Not cheap. It seemed better made than others because it has metal arms and metal base. However, it does still have the plastic wheels you mentioned.

I just pulled one of the wheels. I might see if I can replace them with some heavy duty casters. I saw a nice selection of casters at one of the large hardware stores in Pampanga. It may have been Ace Builders.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Computer chairs, desks*



Maxx62 said:


> Back in February I purchased a new office chair from S&R in Cebu. However, last week two of the caster wheels suddenly broke while I was sitting in my chair. I'm not really that heavy, and I only weigh around 80 kilograms or so. I looked at the wheels very carefully, and the seem to be made from very light weight abs plastic, and I can actually deform the wheels by squeezing them with my hand.
> 
> Of course back in the state such an unsafe product probably wouldn't make it to the store shelf, but over here anything goes, and I'm surprised that something like this is being sold at S&R.
> 
> I don't know the actual model number of the chair. It has a chrome base, black fabric padding, and plastic arm rests. Apart from the substandard caster wheels it seems to be a decent enough office chair, and it looks similar to the chair that I had at my last job in California. However, in this case if you put too much weight on anyone of its wheels, you could find yourself laying on the floor as I did. I've looked all over the place, can't find suitable replacement wheels, so I guess I'm just our of luck. Lesson learned. Be very very careful when purchasing furniture here.


I've been through two large computer chairs like this and the first thing that goes is the arm rests, I am now using a very sturdy affordable high quality (500 pesos) plastic chair with arm rests, it don't break.

I still have on of those computer desks purchased in the stores, it's horrible, I can't stand it, so next month I'm going to have a carpenter make me a custom well built computer desk my way with bolts, nuts and washers so it can be large but taken apart and moved, good quality wood not the particle board stuff sold on the streets and in the hardware, grocery stores.

This goes for BBQ grills, entertainment centers, clothing and kitchen shelves, I have learned the hard way to have it made at the house, it can cost the same or less and last for years.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

*Picture of broken caster wheels*

[/attach]

Here's two pictures of the type of caster wheel found on my S&R office chair. I tried looking in all the major hardware stores in my area (Ace Hardware, Handy Man, & Saver's Home Depot) but I don't seem to be able find anything I can use, without having to do a lot of drilling and tapping. If you happen to see anything that looks like it might work, give me a shout. Also, on closer examination it appears that the arms of the chair are made out of some type of metal, but they are covered in black rubber vinyl, making them look like plastic.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> [/attach]
> 
> Here's two pictures of the type of caster wheel found on my S&R office chair. I tried looking in all the major hardware stores in my area (Ace Hardware, Handy Man, & Saver's Home Depot) but I don't seem to be able find anything I can use, without having to do a lot of drilling and tapping. If you happen to see anything that looks like it might work, give me a shout. Also, on closer examination it appears that the arms of the chair are made out of some type of metal, but they are covered in black rubber vinyl, making them look like plastic.


Maxx, you might try to locate a Japanese surplus office furniture store. We have one up here close to Clark Air Base. Excellent quality chairs and rollers on the bottom of each...


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Surplus chairs from Japan*



Jet Lag said:


> Maxx, you might try to locate a Japanese surplus office furniture store. We have one up here close to Clark Air Base. Excellent quality chairs and rollers on the bottom of each...


Wish I had one of those spots near me, I've seen the bike surplus stores but wasn't aware of other surplus spots for heavy duty chairs and even desks, I'll have to ask and look around my area, I just can't buy the local stuff anymore it don't hold up.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Machine shop should be able to make one of these cheaply.


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

I quit comparing stuff as it only frustrates you more and more so don;t do it you wont get the product here if you do it cost you. Right you would not see such a product on the shelve in the US because it would go through 14 different government agencies to get approved. Then once it was on the shelve it would cost 4 times the price here. Same goes for the quality of work. How many of you would work for 500 peso a day? or 5000 peso a month. you get what you pay for folks remember that. OH one of the driving factors that 90% of us used to move here was cost of living. 
They sell casters at wilcon.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> Maxx, you might try to locate a Japanese surplus office furniture store. We have one up here close to Clark Air Base. Excellent quality chairs and rollers on the bottom of each...


Hey Jet, Do you happen to know the name of one of these places? Here in Cebu we've got people selling surplus Korean car parts, bicycles, and misc items that look like they were donated, but I don't think I've seen anyone specializing in office stuff. I guess I can ask one of my in-laws, but I've always got bribe them to help me.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> Hey Jet, Do you happen to know the name of one of these places? Here in Cebu we've got people selling surplus Korean car parts, bicycles, and misc items that look like they were donated, but I don't think I've seen anyone specializing in office stuff. I guess I can ask one of my in-laws, but I've always got bribe them to help me.


The place I mentioned is just a single store and not a chain as far as I know. Can't remember the name of the place and not sure if I ever paid attention to a name on the building.
I will however, take note of it the next time I'm over in Dau (Mabalacat) and will post the name here.
If you get into this area, it is located quite close to and on the same side of the street as the Hypermart.

This place sells all kinds of stuff too. Desks, chairs, used (real) washing machines, and even bed frames etc. I got my desk chair there and I think my wife paid about P1,000 or maybe a bit less.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> Hey Jet, Do you happen to know the name of one of these places? Here in Cebu we've got people selling surplus Korean car parts, bicycles, and misc items that look like they were donated, but I don't think I've seen anyone specializing in office stuff. I guess I can ask one of my in-laws, but I've always got bribe them to help me.


Maxx, I'm heading over that way later today and will take a photo of the place and get the name. Will try to get back online tonight and get the info posted for you...


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Office Furniture Etc*



Jet Lag said:


> Maxx, I'm heading over that way later today and will take a photo of the place and get the name. Will try to get back online tonight and get the info posted for you...


Maxx, I'll put three photos of the furniture place here although not sure what good it may do you being so far from here.

It is a small--single store and not a chain of stores. The chairs in the photo are ones employees use and are not for sale. However, most all chairs for office use have metal castor wheels and like mine, are well built. I know I'll be going back again and even saw huge 50 some inch second hand flat screen TV's for only P9,000. Would be good for a kids bedroom or whatever as they are not expensive...


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

Near Hypermart on MacArthur, correct?


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

DonAndAbby said:


> Near Hypermart on MacArthur, correct?


Yes, that's the place. Just North of Hypermart on the same side of the street..


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Jet Lag said:


> Yes, that's the place. Just North of Hypermart on the same side of the street..


Took the kids on our motor trike over there yesterday and tell ya what, I'm staying at home and in the aircon till November! It was like an oven yesterday!!!


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> Maxx, I'll put three photos of the furniture place here although not sure what good it may do you being so far from here.
> 
> It is a small--single store and not a chain of stores. The chairs in the photo are ones employees use and are not for sale. However, most all chairs for office use have metal castor wheels and like mine, are well built. I know I'll be going back again and even saw huge 50 some inch second hand flat screen TV's for only P9,000. Would be good for a kids bedroom or whatever as they are not expensive...


I think that I remember seeing some Japanese surplus places in downtown Cebu, old brick store fronts near Fuente Osmena Circle (buildings look like they came from 1930s America), but man driving a car down there is a real chore. I think I will convince my wife that we need to take a cab down there to visit relatives, next week. Maybe that will give me a chance to look around.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> I think that I remember seeing some Japanese surplus places in downtown Cebu, old brick store fronts near Fuente Osmena Circle (buildings look like they came from 1930s America), but man driving a car down there is a real chore. I think I will convince my wife that we need to take a cab down there to visit relatives, next week. Maybe that will give me a chance to look around.


Yea the driving here takes a LOT of getting use to. 11yrs on now and I'm still on my toes when driving.

The biggest safety hazard with office/desk chairs in the country is not so much the casters as it is the legs breaking when on the chair or sitting down. I've read stories of guys here having that happen. One guy broke his neck in the fall and another I read of broke a collar bone and dislocated a shoulder at the same time. 
So It's really important to buy chairs with metal support legs rather than the plastic. 
We all moved here to the islands to enjoy life and not to support doctors and hospitals in avoidable accidents...


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> Yes, that's the place. Just North of Hypermart on the same side of the street..


I will try to stop in next time we are around there. We will probably go to S & R soon.

Is is worth a visit to Hypermart? I have never been to one and I have heard people say they have excellent prices.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

DonAndAbby said:


> I will try to stop in next time we are around there. We will probably go to S & R soon.
> 
> Is is worth a visit to Hypermart? I have never been to one and I have heard people say they have excellent prices.


Yea Hypermart is pretty good. Products and food are good quality as well. Prices are about the same as Puregold so it's not a fortune. Hypermarts are owned by and are part of SM malls. So there is also a large Hypermart inside of SM Clark. We spend a lot of time at Marquee Mall so end up getting items at the grocery store there as well. The bulk of our food shopping is at the local open market but some things they just don't carry.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

I have a very small computer desk that is made for a 10 year old kid and a chair that has metal legs, did have the cheap casters, pigskin upholstery on the back and arms and is very uncomfortable to sit in. I hate them both. I want to have a custom built and installed net café slot installed onto my living room wall where I have enough room to get my feet and legs under the slot, and it is high enough for me to be comfortable on height and get all the electric wiring off the floor and have the monitor at proper height and the tower and speakers in proper position. I also want a chair that can hold me, I am a large size man but I am also tall, 6'2" and need the support. The chair cost me $100US, about 4,500 pesos and I had to have it modified so it would hold me up, otherwise I am grasshoppered when sitting in this chair. The desk was cheap, made of particle board and the top is warped badly. I want my net café slot made of industrial grade 3/4" plywood with extra strong brackets.


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

JimnNila143 said:


> I have a very small computer desk that is made for a 10 year old kid and a chair that has metal legs, did have the cheap casters, pigskin upholstery on the back and arms and is very uncomfortable to sit in. I hate them both. I want to have a custom built and installed net café slot installed onto my living room wall where I have enough room to get my feet and legs under the slot, and it is high enough for me to be comfortable on height and get all the electric wiring off the floor and have the monitor at proper height and the tower and speakers in proper position. I also want a chair that can hold me, I am a large size man but I am also tall, 6'2" and need the support. The chair cost me $100US, about 4,500 pesos and I had to have it modified so it would hold me up, otherwise I am grasshoppered when sitting in this chair. The desk was cheap, made of particle board and the top is warped badly. I want my net café slot made of industrial grade 3/4" plywood with extra strong brackets.


Luckily I found a furniture builder here who does good work for a fair price. He built me this desk to my specs for p5800. It is furniture quality laminated plywood which keeps the cost and weight down. I used to help my dad build furniture so I know that good laminate works well when done right. He built several things for us.

Unfortunately the chair I mentioned earlier has a razor like edge on the arm, which has scraped the front of the desk. I'm sure he can sand it and refinish it for a few hundred pesos. I need to wrap the arm with something.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

DonAndAbby said:


> Luckily I found a furniture builder here who does good work for a fair price. He built me this desk to my specs for p5800. It is furniture quality laminated plywood which keeps the cost and weight down. I used to help my dad build furniture so I know that good laminate works well when done right. He built several things for us.
> 
> Unfortunately the chair I mentioned earlier has a razor like edge on the arm, which has scraped the front of the desk. I'm sure he can sand it and refinish it for a few hundred pesos. I need to wrap the arm with something.


That's a good looking desk you have and should last a long-long time. Our bedroom where the computer is is quite small. So just bought a standard computer desk and it fits right in.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Heavy duty laminated*



DonAndAbby said:


> Luckily I found a furniture builder here who does good work for a fair price. He built me this desk to my specs for p5800. It is furniture quality laminated plywood which keeps the cost and weight down. I used to help my dad build furniture so I know that good laminate works well when done right. He built several things for us.
> 
> Unfortunately the chair I mentioned earlier has a razor like edge on the arm, which has scraped the front of the desk. I'm sure he can sand it and refinish it for a few hundred pesos. I need to wrap the arm with something.


I had a large entertainment system built with the heavy duty laminated wood... it survived 4 feet of water for 3 months, It did have the clear coating on it. I like the desk, gonna have one made similar but with an upper area.


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

mcalleyboy said:


> I had a large entertainment system built with the heavy duty laminated wood... it survived 4 feet of water for 3 months, It did have the clear coating on it. I like the desk, gonna have one made similar but with an upper area.


This guy can build just about anything. He does a lot of hotel work like front desks, etc. He built the kitchen cabinets in our house (for my landlord, 10+ years ago) and they are holding up fairly well for that age.

Additionally, I had him make a low rise entertainment stand for me, a DVD shelf, and a book case.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

My last run, two days ago into Sta Cruz Laguna I noticed a Japanese surplus office store and in the front area a couple heavy duty computer chairs, high back, gonna stop in tomorrow and check pricing and see what else they have.


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

Saying holds true again..."you get what you pay for"...... I was at Citi hardware today looking for some electrical items to wire a room. When I spotted a perfect size breaker box, I asked the saleslady to test fit the breakers. That's when we noticed that 4 out of 8 slots were damaged, making it terribly unsafe to use. I asked, "how can you even sell this death trap?" Her response was, "it was overstock". There was another style of breaker box I liked, but all 12 units they had were all scratched up......"how can you sell this stuff" I asked. they just smiled. finally I got all my supplies.....but when I attempted to replace an old "fuse box" , I found out it the line and load wires were all connected together........making that unsafe to work on too. so now I have to get power company to disconnect so I can work safely. san mig light sounds pretty good right now.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

George6020 said:


> Saying holds true again..."you get what you pay for"...... I was at Citi hardware today looking for some electrical items to wire a room. When I spotted a perfect size breaker box, I asked the saleslady to test fit the breakers. That's when we noticed that 4 out of 8 slots were damaged, making it terribly unsafe to use. I asked, "how can you even sell this death trap?" Her response was, "it was overstock". There was another style of breaker box I liked, but all 12 units they had were all scratched up......"how can you sell this stuff" I asked. they just smiled. finally I got all my supplies.....but when I attempted to replace an old "fuse box" , I found out it the line and load wires were all connected together........making that unsafe to work on too. so now I have to get power company to disconnect so I can work safely. san mig light sounds pretty good right now.


In my opinion, you're still taking a risk, even when you're paying premium prices, here, and you still have to inspect everything very carefully before making a purchase. My mistake was that I foolishly assumed that products sold at S&R would be safe, since S&R tends to sell many of the brands as Costco back in the US. Boy, what a foolish assumption on my part. Lesson learned.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Japanese surplus*



mcalleyboy said:


> My last run, two days ago into Sta Cruz Laguna I noticed a Japanese surplus office store and in the front area a couple heavy duty computer chairs, high back, gonna stop in tomorrow and check pricing and see what else they have.



The cool high back chair with leather, it looked and felt real but not 100% sure, the wheel castors didn't look high quality, the price was 4,000 peso's. A little update, hard to keep my internet connection these days, I seem to be the only one in my barangay that has this issue so my responses might be a little slow.


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

Maxx62 said:


> In my opinion, you're still taking a risk, even when you're paying premium prices, here, and you still have to inspect everything very carefully before making a purchase. My mistake was that I foolishly assumed that products sold at S&R would be safe, since S&R tends to sell many of the brands as Costco back in the US. Boy, what a foolish assumption on my part. Lesson learned.


Yes, I'm finding that true in just about everything I buy here........got to inspect it, test it, look at it really well. 
I really don't mean to "knock" the businesses here, and I kinda feel sorry for them....but does it seem that Philippine companies, even the big ones like SM, Citi-hardware, S&R...........are they just getting the "rejects" and out-dated products from the US and other countries??


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

George6020 said:


> Yes, I'm finding that true in just about everything I buy here........got to inspect it, test it, look at it really well.
> I really don't mean to "knock" the businesses here, and I kinda feel sorry for them....but does it seem that Philippine companies, even the big ones like SM, Citi-hardware, S&R...........are they just getting the "rejects" and out-dated products from the US and other countries??


I think for the most part that most of the products sold here are made and intended for the (majority of) the locals that simply can not afford much. Comes back to that old saying: 
you get what you pay for." 

A good example of this are the Honda motor bikes that are sold here. They are actually made by Honda but are nothing more than junk. These bikes and others like them are made for the affordability of the local market. If Honda tried to sell these junk bikes in the states they would be out of business in nothing flat.

It really does take a lot of time and effort to locate and buy good quality products here. And there are times that we do unknowingly end up buying junk.

Personally, as much as I hate wasting money on junk from time to time, it's still a darned sight better than dealing with the high cost and BS of "trying" to enjoy the golden years somewhere in Southern California.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

George6020 said:


> Yes, I'm finding that true in just about everything I buy here........got to inspect it, test it, look at it really well.
> I really don't mean to "knock" the businesses here, and I kinda feel sorry for them....but does it seem that Philippine companies, even the big ones like SM, Citi-hardware, S&R...........are they just getting the "rejects" and out-dated products from the US and other countries??


I don't think they are western rejects as most of it is far substandard to start with. I think if there was anything I would change about the Philippines it would be to introduce some strong consumer laws. Agreed it would increase prices but it would stop people wasting their hard come bye money on what is little more than junk.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Wasted money and more costly*



Gary D said:


> I don't think they are western rejects as most of it is far substandard to start with. I think if there was anything I would change about the Philippines it would be to introduce some strong consumer laws. Agreed it would increase prices but it would stop people wasting their hard come bye money on what is little more than junk.


Wasted money and it's more costly, I have bought several items over and over again. I've learned so much from my in-laws and neighbors, they make their own dust pans and handles out of steel and quality PVC piping it last for decades (can't count how many plastic dust pans I've been through), quality mops, I use the steel/heavy duty platic upper portion because it doesn't break but the long handle portion does within days, I'm using bamboo for that portion. 

Tools, break really fast also but there again a welder or can make steel saws with interchangeable small blades(forgot the name of this saw), I use it mainly for cutting steel, masonry products also are made that will last, I have a steel hammer and that includes the handle it's heavy but it's great for tough jobs, the bolo knifes also welded to steel handles/steel pipes and then wrapped with inner tube tire for grip, I know I could go on.

I now see steel ladders made, before in my area it's bamboo but those ladders if left out in the rain and it happens start to weaken instantly, the steel ones can be repaired, the negative could be the weight but the Philippine weather is very destructive on everything.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

George6020 said:


> Yes, I'm finding that true in just about everything I buy here........got to inspect it, test it, look at it really well.
> I really don't mean to "knock" the businesses here, and I kinda feel sorry for them....but does it seem that Philippine companies, even the big ones like SM, Citi-hardware, S&R...........are they just getting the "rejects" and out-dated products from the US and other countries??


Well, I guess I feel a little sorry for the store employees, who have to deal with angry customers over here, but I'm not too sure if I have much sympathy for the businesses themselves?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Maxx62 said:


> Well, I guess I feel a little sorry for the store employees, who have to deal with angry customers over here, but I'm not too sure if I have much sympathy for the businesses themselves?


I think one of the problems is that Filipino customer don't get angry. Perhaps if they did things would improve.


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

Gary D said:


> I think one of the problems is that Filipino customer don't get angry. Perhaps if they did things would improve.


I believe that would work, IF....and its a big IF Filipinos would start complaining about damaged and substandard products. But I also feel sorry for the sales people as well as lower management that have to make excuses for their products. BUT, 1 thing I did find out....is that management doesn't like people(foreigners) making LOUD complaints within their store. It worked for me 1 time in a Davao City Gaisanos, then the manager FINALLY refunded my money......on the condition that I continue as a customer....hehehee.


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## overmyer (Aug 15, 2013)

George6020 said:


> I believe that would work, IF....and its a big IF Filipinos would start complaining about damaged and substandard products. But I also feel sorry for the sales people as well as lower management that have to make excuses for their products. BUT, 1 thing I did find out....is that management doesn't like people(foreigners) making LOUD complaints within their store. It worked for me 1 time in a Davao City Gaisanos, then the manager FINALLY refunded my money......on the condition that I continue as a customer....hehehee.


Filipinos don't (in general) complain about poor service/products, as do Westerners, for cultural reasons. What they do is take their business elsewhere. It is a cultural trait to avoid public disagreements. Probably one reason why long past slights can fester for years until suddenly released in fits of drunken rage.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

overmyer said:


> What they do is take their business elsewhere.


That's how I do 80% if not more of my complaining....got to learn to pick your battles.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Little or no complaining*



overmyer said:


> Filipinos don't (in general) complain about poor service/products, as do Westerners, for cultural reasons. What they do is take their business elsewhere. It is a cultural trait to avoid public disagreements. Probably one reason why long past slights can fester for years until suddenly released in fits of drunken rage.


I like this trait, I find this trait a positive one, it's peaceful when shopping, I've learned also to take my business elsewhere with no fuss.

Buying products/produce the Philippine consumer will open up and inspect the item from top to bottom and the sales people most of the time will make sure it's operational even the light bulbs, some items do have warranties and I've had to return several items and they repaired them as advertised, I do inspect everything I buy now and I don't grab the first item sticking out either, it usually turns out to be a returned product or damaged in some other way.


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## overmyer (Aug 15, 2013)

mcalleyboy said:


> I like this trait, I find this trait a positive one, it's peaceful when shopping, I've learned also to take my business elsewhere with no fuss.
> 
> Buying products/produce the Philippine consumer will open up and inspect the item from top to bottom and the sales people most of the time will make sure it's operational even the light bulbs, some items do have warranties and I've had to return several items and they repaired them as advertised, I do inspect everything I buy now and I don't grab the first item sticking out either, it usually turns out to be a returned product or damaged in some other way.


Inspecting the item to be purchased prior to doing so is important. Consumers in Russia do this as well because there is no return!
We in the West are spoiled!


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

I guess that the business mindset here in the Philippines is simply way over my head, and I guess that I'll never understand their overall philosophy of running a company here. It seems to me, that if just one company provided a product with passable quality standards that they could own the market by stealing all the customers away from their competitors? 

A while back I had a minor plumbing problem in our house, and I decided to take care of it on my own. I went down to the the hardware store to pick up some 1/2" nipples, a ball valve, and a flex line. When I got home I realized that most of the nipples that I had picked up were not threaded properly, and that instead of actually having pipe threads on their ends, they only had vague indentations in the surface of the pipe where the threads should be. 

I threw the pipes with the defective threads in my growing junk pile, and obtained replacement pipes, which appeared to have suitable threads. Of course after I put everything back together I had a couple of leaks. I took it apart and found that the female treaded fittings on my plastic ball valve were grossly over sized, and that the male pipe wasn't getting tight like it should.

After a few days of playing around with this, I got tired and decided to hire a local plumber. The plumber took one look at my work and told me that I wasn't using enough Teflon tape on my connections. Well, I've been putting pipes together in the US for years, and I though I had a good idea how much tape to use. 

The plumber and I went back to the store and picked up three rolls of imported teflon tape, and then when we got home, he used approximately half of a roll on each pipe connection. He put so much tape on the pipe, that it looked like he was wrapping a bandage! He then treaded everything together, and I realized that the tape was acting like a cork in the female fitting, and the male pipe thread really wasn't doing any of the sealing at all! What a joke! Well, I didn't think it was going to hold, but so far so good.

It seems to me that if just one of these local plumbing suppliers would produce pipe fittings that worked correctly, that they would own the market, and who would be willing to buy from the other bozos? Why would I want to save two pesos by buying a pipe fitting that isn't even threaded correctly, only to turn around and waste money by using ten times (not an exaggeration) as much teflon tape, compensate for the bad threads? Well, I guess that many things over here are just over my head, and I just don't get it.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Backwards Logic & Thinking*



Maxx62 said:


> Back in February I purchased a new office chair from S&R in Cebu. However, last week two of the caster wheels suddenly broke while I was sitting in my chair. I'm not really that heavy, and I only weigh around 80 kilograms or so. I looked at the wheels very carefully, and the seem to be made from very light weight abs plastic, and I can actually deform the wheels by squeezing them with my hand.
> 
> Of course back in the state such an unsafe product probably wouldn't make it to the store shelf, but over here anything goes, and I'm surprised that something like this is being sold at S&R.
> 
> I don't know the actual model number of the chair. It has a chrome base, black fabric padding, and plastic arm rests. Apart from the substandard caster wheels it seems to be a decent enough office chair, and it looks similar to the chair that I had at my last job in California. However, in this case if you put too much weight on anyone of its wheels, you could find yourself laying on the floor as I did. I've looked all over the place, can't find suitable replacement wheels, so I guess I'm just our of luck. Lesson learned. Be very very careful when purchasing furniture here.


Maxx, That is such a good post that I recommended it to be included in a future site news letter.
I along with countless others share your frustration and wonderment in the absolute lack of thinking in these matters. 
Honestly, I'd love to try answering the rhetorical questions you pose in your post. Problem is, that if I truly voiced my thoughts and opinions, as a moderator on the site -- I'd have to ban myself for sure :banplease:!!! Hahaha.

Tell ya what though, I've often had the same thought on just one company offering best quality in whatever the product or service is. Internet service for example.
Just imagine what would happen to these local internet providers if AT&T or Veriosn were to offer service here all of a sudden.

Yep, I think all of us feel the pain and frustration in the quality of products and services because it will likely never get any better...


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

It's very real the low quality of many things, I've wasted so much money on products that won't last longer than month, in 5 years I've been through at least 12 plastic dust pans and you can tell they wont' last, also they try to sell metal dust pans that will break also, the metal is so thin I've learned to modify and make many things for simple and mundane tasks and the raw materials are in every single municipality your local mom and pop hardware store.

All of the office furniture they sell in the grocery stores or other area's similar made form particle or pressed wood board (it looks really nice and *fools the wife*) has either been eaten bugs or has fallen apart in our home, this stuff can't get wet and when it does it falls apart, I started having items made from scratch and there's no shortage of carpenters and quality wood.

Those tongs used for the BBQ grill, I can't buy anything in my area that won't fall apart or the metal is paper thin but the fair in town brings in supplies from Manila and they sell quality tongs for 65 peso's long ones and short ones the same tongs you see in the Grocery stores (meat section) but the grocery stores don't sell them...lol, they sell those cheap paper thin ones even in Manila grocery stores, so these products are sold by the Divisoria or Binondo market area's. 

Quality knifes (*fillet knifes*) for a decent price and won't rust to dust...forget it! That was one item I shopped for in the thrift stores US, brought a large bag of knifes, each knife cost me 25 cents and quality knife sharpener, there again I bought it at thrift store for $3 and it's branded with three grades of sharpening.


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

Another successful complaint....and a little artificial emotion....my acting career might be taking off.
Citi-hardware again. I purchased a "light duty" welding machine, for welding steel bar to angle bar for supporting a water tank. I thought a "light duty" machine would work.....but. After initial spot welding went well, we tried a little continuous welding of the joints. After just 5-10 minutes of intermittent welding, it shut down. Total use was approx. 1 hour. So, I cleaned up the cables and machine, then returned to Citi-hardware. This was last Friday 5pm....the dept in-charge said must wait to Monday for manager, because its on consignment. I said NO, I want to exchange for "medium duty" machine NOW....."I bought from Citi-hardware, NOT consignee", CH can deal with consignee, not me." He insisted can do nothing....I informed him that he has 2 choices, 1-return my money NOW.....or allow me to exchange for better machine and pay you NOW. He refused to call manager at home, until I insisted with my professional acting. The manager informed him...to do the exchange, and also give 6 month warranty. Problem solved. YIPPEE
By the way.....the light duty machine was Chinese.....the medium duty is Japanese and it worked great.


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## bbazor (Nov 18, 2013)

George6020 said:


> Another successful complaint....and a little artificial emotion....my acting career might be taking off.
> Citi-hardware again. I purchased a "light duty" welding machine, for welding steel bar to angle bar for supporting a water tank. I thought a "light duty" machine would work.....but. After initial spot welding went well, we tried a little continuous welding of the joints. After just 5-10 minutes of intermittent welding, it shut down. Total use was approx. 1 hour. So, I cleaned up the cables and machine, then returned to Citi-hardware. This was last Friday 5pm....the dept in-charge said must wait to Monday for manager, because its on consignment. I said NO, I want to exchange for "medium duty" machine NOW....."I bought from Citi-hardware, NOT consignee", CH can deal with consignee, not me." He insisted can do nothing....I informed him that he has 2 choices, 1-return my money NOW.....or allow me to exchange for better machine and pay you NOW. He refused to call manager at home, until I insisted with my professional acting. The manager informed him...to do the exchange, and also give 6 month warranty. Problem solved. YIPPEE
> By the way.....the light duty machine was Chinese.....the medium duty is Japanese and it worked great.


Do you care to elaborate on your acting? Maybe you could give the rest of us some tips on dealing with these types of issues.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

George6020 said:


> Another successful complaint....and a little artificial emotion....my acting career might be taking off.
> Citi-hardware again. I purchased a "light duty" welding machine, for welding steel bar to angle bar for supporting a water tank. I thought a "light duty" machine would work.....but. After initial spot welding went well, we tried a little continuous welding of the joints. After just 5-10 minutes of intermittent welding, it shut down. Total use was approx. 1 hour. So, I cleaned up the cables and machine, then returned to Citi-hardware. This was last Friday 5pm....the dept in-charge said must wait to Monday for manager, because its on consignment. I said NO, I want to exchange for "medium duty" machine NOW....."I bought from Citi-hardware, NOT consignee", CH can deal with consignee, not me." He insisted can do nothing....I informed him that he has 2 choices, 1-return my money NOW.....or allow me to exchange for better machine and pay you NOW. He refused to call manager at home, until I insisted with my professional acting. The manager informed him...to do the exchange, and also give 6 month warranty. Problem solved. YIPPEE
> By the way.....the light duty machine was Chinese.....the medium duty is Japanese and it worked great.


George, That's the right and usually only way to deal with workers at stores. They seem to want to do nothing to fix or make a problem right. 

Filipinos for the most part will not push, insist, or demand anything. As such, store keepers/workers/managers, and owners have come to expect to have to do nothing except sell a product and the buyer is simply stuck with the purchase. 

As much as I hate to do it, I've had to raise my voice and cause a scene before a store employee or manager would do the "right thing." Too bad it's that way but until the locals start to speak up and demand satisfaction on products and services purchased, it will likely not change for the better...


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

*Warning Cube Kitchen Systems*

So we are remodeling our kitchen. I went to several places to get bids. Cube looked nice quality is good hinges were German made. OK for us to do our kitchen 800K. Because of my disability and special cabinets needed OK I can live with that. Got the Quote under Scope of Work it says 
CUBE will undertake the delivery and installation of KITCHENS. Owner will cover additional labor cost for change of schedule or off specification site preparation, As well as airline and accommodation for outside Metro Manila projects.

Installation should start once site is ready. Coordination on date should be pre-arranged prior to delivery to avoid delays and possible damages. Damages on-site due to owner/contractor staff and work will be the responsibility of owner. Re-ordering parts and repairs are charged to owner.

Yes you read that right I must pay for the delivery to Antipolo (outside Manila) and for the hotel of the installers. And any damages that occur on my property is my responsibility even though its their installers. 

Bottom line the 800K is now 800K+ 
well Cube you just lost me as a customer. AMAZING


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

c_acton98 said:


> So we are remodeling our kitchen. I went to several places to get bids. Cube looked nice quality is good hinges were German made. OK for us to do our kitchen 800K. Because of my disability and special cabinets needed OK I can live with that. Got the Quote under Scope of Work it says
> CUBE will undertake the delivery and installation of KITCHENS. Owner will cover additional labor cost for change of schedule or off specification site preparation, As well as airline and accommodation for outside Metro Manila projects.
> 
> Installation should start once site is ready. Coordination on date should be pre-arranged prior to delivery to avoid delays and possible damages. Damages on-site due to owner/contractor staff and work will be the responsibility of owner. Re-ordering parts and repairs are charged to owner.
> ...


Wow....just amazes me that us foreigners have to sign all sorts of papers, and are liable for nearly everything.....but I did learn the hard way NOT to pay fully until I was satisfied, no matter how long it takes...and don't care how many times workers have to return. But, sometimes I fail my own plan, by getting a little impatient and allowing substandard work.


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

bbazor said:


> Do you care to elaborate on your acting? Maybe you could give the rest of us some tips on dealing with these types of issues.


Well, I am a little proud of myself and really felt good after management did the right thing. 
But really, I'm more of the factual, straight to the point, calmer type....hehehhee.

BUT, after the "in-charge" kept denying me....I raised my voice a bit, but in dissatisfaction, NOT anger, which is not accepted very well here.
Many of the employees came over to listen, and even agreed with me......customers also took note. BUT, this "in-charge" would not budge. Finally, I told him I wanted managers name and number, that I will make the call, because manager had day off. Then the Assistant Manager came over, heard my story, told her I will not shop here again.............that's when she made the call to the manager, who made the right decision. 
BUT, the more I talked, gaining more and more attention, and stating facts and my intentions in kinda "animated" form...............the more these people were taking my side. Possibly the bottom line was, that instead of CH returning my money, I was wanting to give them MORE money for a better machine. 
I was dissatisfied, but still respectful to them, which they really appreciate.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

George6020 said:


> Another successful complaint....and a little artificial emotion....my acting career might be taking off.
> Citi-hardware again. I purchased a "light duty" welding machine, for welding steel bar to angle bar for supporting a water tank. I thought a "light duty" machine would work.....but. After initial spot welding went well, we tried a little continuous welding of the joints. After just 5-10 minutes of intermittent welding, it shut down. Total use was approx. 1 hour. So, I cleaned up the cables and machine, then returned to Citi-hardware. This was last Friday 5pm....the dept in-charge said must wait to Monday for manager, because its on consignment. I said NO, I want to exchange for "medium duty" machine NOW....."I bought from Citi-hardware, NOT consignee", CH can deal with consignee, not me." He insisted can do nothing....I informed him that he has 2 choices, 1-return my money NOW.....or allow me to exchange for better machine and pay you NOW. He refused to call manager at home, until I insisted with my professional acting. The manager informed him...to do the exchange, and also give 6 month warranty. Problem solved. YIPPEE
> By the way.....the light duty machine was Chinese.....the medium duty is Japanese and it worked great.


I agree, sometimes raising your voice is sometimes the only way to get taken seriously over here. I've had to resort to this tactic on more than one occasion. However, I'd be careful pushing it too far in this country. 

About ten years ago my wife and I took Asiana from Seoul down to Manila. We were standing in line to get our boarding passes for Cebu, when the couple in front of us got into an argument with ticketing agent. The agent came them seats in different parts of the plane, and the husband came completely unglued in front of the agent. To make a long story short, she tried to reason with him, but he wouldn't calm down, so they had a three or four guys (not sure police or security) wrestle him to the ground, cuff him, and then took him away somewhere else. The flight from Manila from Cebu is only about one hour, I don't know why he couldn't sit apart for such a short time, but he got arrested, and hauled off to only god knows where. You have to pick your battles carefully.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Back in February I also purchased an inexpensive particle board desk. However, a few weeks after I purchased it, I noticed that it was starting to bow, and to collapse in the middle. I was about ready to throw my desk out, when I happened to come across a small hardware store selling turned wooden posts. I purchased two posts, wood glue, and some varnish for less than 400 Php. I was able to reinforce my desk using the posts, and now I can rest my elbows on top, without fear that it will collapse. Well, usually I don't like throwing good money after bad, but in this case it was a small gamble, and so far the results are passable.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

The other day I happened to be at Wilcon Hardware, for the first time, and I happened to notice that that have a fairly decent selection of caster wheels there, so I picked up a set of five Japan Maxim caster wheels for less than 200 Php. The threaded stud on top of the caster turned out to be 12mm x 1.0, and finding a nut with the correct pitch was a little bit difficult. At first I located them at TrueValue, but they wanted 280 Php for each nut! I asked them if 280 Php wasn't the price for an entire box, but they said that was the price for each nut. Next, I again came across the correct sized nut at a small bolt supply place (not really a hardware store) here in Lapu Lapu City. I don't recall exactly, but I think I paid around 30 Php for each nut. After that I took everything to a local welder, and had him spot weld the nuts onto the bottom of my old chair base. So for less than a thousand pesos I was able to fix my old chair, and right now I'm rolling around leaving black rubber marks on our tiles. Boy is my wife p***ed! Looks like I'll have to find some sort of clear mat to put under my chair.


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