# How has the economic situation affected you?



## corfiot (Jul 10, 2011)

In these trying times, I was wondering how it has affected expats in Greece? I know that is some places, islands for example it is a buoyant summer with lots of tourists, but how is it really?

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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

- we make significantly less money than we used to because of cuts to my husband's salary
- there is less work for me
- we pay higher taxes (sales tax, income tax, etc)
- we have several unemployed friends who were not unemployed previously
- my husband is not going to get a raise that he otherwise would have received
- we had had problems using our health insurance at pharmacies (although I think it is working again)
- some things are more expensive, some things are cheaper
- on a more personal note, we are spending less money and being more careful about where we do spend money. 
- we are considering buying a home although not for 2 years at least
- we're getting some really good deals right now as we are furnishing our new apartment, because a lot of places are offering really good sales, or going out of business sales.
- and just for fun, I get so sick of "defending" our childfree (by choice) lifestyle to super nosy people, I tell them "we decided not to have children because of financial reasons" LOL.

Life is still great. We live within our means. Our means are a little less than they were before, but like every other family on the planet, we just redid the budget to reflect our income now and our needs now and work from there. We LOVE living here, we don't have plans to desert, in fact we just moved to a new city and are in the process of setting up our new home and are really excited about it. 

We do see differences between there and our previous home (a small Cycladic island). On the island there were no signs of the economic crisis whatsoever. There was a lot of construction all winter, people eat out at tavernas every night, throw money around, nice cars, international vacations to Norway, Germany, etc., everyone just gets richer. The crisis is NOT everywhere in Greece. In our new city, yes, there are a lot of recently closed businesses, that is a reality. And the taxi drivers are actually participating in the current taxi strike. On the island, no one went on strike ever, for any reason, because going on strike means you don't make any money!


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## corfiot (Jul 10, 2011)

Interesting thoughts and glad you're still loving it. It's nice to here someone being positive. Good luck in your new home.

Darren


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## scoobie (May 25, 2009)

In general we notice the cost of some things going up. Though if we wanted new furniture,clothes etc then there are good deals. We have found some great places to eat out that are not trying to rip you off so to the places we ate for years and now charge crazy prices, it is their loss. One car and a scooter instead of two cars which also works out better and we get more use out of.
Interesting about the opinions on islands , agree with the building work, maybe people trying to use up their non taxed paid money quickly. Though the tourists are not everywhere and I saw many empty sunloungers , many empty restaurants, lots of cars still for rental today.
We certainly watch what we spend now and give more thought to needing something or just wanting something. As happy as we were years ago , actually far more content.


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## panos1313 (Aug 31, 2011)

Oh yet another pyramid scheme

How unique


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## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

:clap2:
*Oh yeah, send those free things my way - Ive not had a wage since last June... my rent is 2½ months behind... Ive no job/work... nor has my room mate... we have a huge electricity bill... and this week we have actually been hungry - our last few euros are buying basic foods - anyone without work is welcome to come eat our simple fare of rice or lentils (seriously). We still try and take some food to 'our' park people. Please, remember those who are on the streets during this time.
How has the economic situation affected me? How do you think?*


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## panos1313 (Aug 31, 2011)

As a private-sector worker, initially the economic crisis affected me positively (yes thats right). Big cuts to state worker salaries brought em down to levels closer to mine which led to reductions in the prices of some stuff i cared about like alcohol prices at bars and rent on which i received a 50 euros reduction.Ofc some things become worse, like gas price, but overall i felt my buying power increase.

Now as of last 3-4 months the cuts have been so big that they 've affected me in a negative way too.Nothing too big since im single without too many must-have's but im considering making some changes to my life in order to save some money (mostly selling my hungry motorbike for a more economical one that isnt such a thieves-target to require private garage either)


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

We got hit hard this month, when my husband's salary was reduced suddenly by another 23%. It was unexpected, unannounced, and it REALLY hurt. If we hadn't already been living very frugally, we'd be in trouble now.

The reason his salary was reduced 23% has to be new taxes. It wasn't the solidarity tax, they sent us a big bill for that which was due on September 30, that covered January-September 2011, but it wasn't SO much money that a 23% cut on October - December salary could be accounted for by that alone.

I think that's only a small part - the largest part has to be the new lower tax deduction. It was €12,000/year, now it's €5,000/year, so that means that we owe taxes on €7,000 suddenly and they are taking that out of his salary for Oct, Nov, and Dec. I am still unclear on whether the withholding that is going on right now is based on a €5,000/yr amount or the €8,000/yr amount which went into affect earlier this year. If it's the former, I suppose that starting January, the withholding will go up even more.

Once the "New Salary Scale" (or whatever the English translation of νέο μισθολόγιο is), we'll lose another €120/month or so.

I understand the need for ALL of this stuff, although I don't personally agree that raising taxes is helping the economy, but the thing that bothers me the most is that there seems to be NOWHERE taken into account in my husband's salary that he doesn't just have a university degree, he has a masters degree in the field in which he works. Up til now, he got a little extra for that (like €35/month - not much, but SOME recognition of the years he could have been working and getting paid, but wasn't, and the fact that obviously he's better qualified for his job - he uses this stuff on a daily basis) but it appears that that has disappeared and there is no extra for a Masters of a PhD, even when it's completely relevant to the job. That makes me very sad because it means that anyone who does get an advanced degree will lose those years in terms of earnings, job advancement, retirement - and yet will make no additional money. The result is you end up with a much less educated workforce.

Is that really what Greece wants for its teachers, nurses, ministry employees, archaeologists, etc?


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## gonefishing (Oct 8, 2011)

We retired here - couldn't have got timing worse really - agreed price of house and before could get money across the exchange rate dropped to 2 thirds what it was - so all reserves eaten up immediately! The builder then robbed us of over 20K. The exchange rate never recovered so the pension is only two thirds that expected. Everything continues to go up in price and the new taxes look like pushing us to the bread line and beyond. Yes we had a dream but we thought we had planned carefully - but now we have to count every cent, we cannot travel back to see family, many UK friends have already fled, all our friends (Greek and English)are worried or frightened and our life is now rather drab and confined. Many folk are in a far worse state than us - but now we are in the classic position of people on a fixed income...


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## LGK616 (Sep 22, 2009)

It has affected us so much that we are leaving Greece and going back to Canada in 3 weeks.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear that, LGK. We up here in Northern Greece have been hit harder than Athens, according to the numbers at least. I believe it. I was in Neapoli not that long ago and seemed like every other store had gone out of business


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## athenakoll (Jan 2, 2010)

My husband has had to close his business. I have had to go back to work, and thank god I found a job quite close to home, last year making 5 euros and hour. It's part time! I have 2 children in high school and 1 in elementary. I have had to cut out their tutors and extra school activites. We own our apt, (my husband's inheritance when his parents pass), we've had to sell our 2 cars. We now live on lentils, rice, potatoes and the odd souvlaki! We won't be buying heating oil this year, so we'll use our A/C for heat when the cheap electricity comes on. Our Credit cards are being paid later and later, and even though I want to go back to Canada with the children and husband to follow later (he's not a Canadian citizen) firstly, we can't afford to renew the children's passports, and second, we couldn't afford the air tickets. So, yes I could say the economic situation in Greece is pretty serious and has affected us in an extremely negative way. I always thought that by the time I turn 50 I'd be financially secure! However, I can be thankful that we're all healthy.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Athena, I can definitely relate on the diet of lentils and rice. I bake all our own bread and we haven't eaten meat in about a year. We're lucky to have a pretty affordable laiki here on Saturdays and we can still get cheap seasonal produce. But it's getting harder to find inexpensive food at the supermarket. For example, the big supermarket where I shop hasn't had their store brand lentils since we moved here in July, but they have the Agrino ones which cost more than twice as much. So it takes a lot more work to find food. I spend a lot more time than before shopping - we now go to at least 4 supermarkets plus the laiki.

We don't own a home and we have a car loan so things are not fun here either as between rent and the car payment, we are under a lot of financial pressure. My husband keeps saying he wants us to move to the US but it would be very complicated. He's not a citizen and I don't have a job there. I don't know if it would even be possible. 

We are holding on and just trying to enjoy our time here, since we don't know what the future will bring.


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## EriEli (Oct 26, 2011)

My fiancé and I can relate as well. Though I am in the us right now, we have had our share of hardships. His salary as a firefighter has decreased by almost 50% since 2009. He has really fought to maintain our quality of life by picking up odd jobs whenever and wherever he can (seasonal waiter for a catering company, bill collector for cleaning companies...whatever it takes). We have parked the car (no $ for registration, gas, and insurance) and use only a motorcycle if we go out and we never leave the house hungry. 

The one thing that has saved us is his family farm. His parents send us crates of food on a KTEL bus every other week - eggs, olive oil, feta, tomatoes, onions, beans, peppers, oranges, spinach, potatoes, pitta, bread....you name it. We stretch every meal out...using every last bit of fresh food and adding in lentils, rice and the odd piece of meat. It's not an easy adjustment but I have become quite the creative chef and we have honestly eaten extremely healthy. We drink less alcohol, if at all, and we even share a frappe in the morning instead of making two - which has been a good change for our health. I guess all we can do is think optimistically (especially when we're craving our old deluxe diet) and be thankful for our health.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

On a lighter note, and since we're talking of how the crisis is affecting our diets, a book came out recently here in Greece on the meals Greeks ate during the occupation, and it mentions that before the war, "gemista" were actually peppers and tomatoes stuffed with mayonnaise (gag!!) and stuffing them with rice was actually the frugal Greek housewife's way of getting around the lack of mayo! Personally, I'll take my gemista with rice any day!


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## EriEli (Oct 26, 2011)

I think I may have puked in my mouth a little. Ha, ha. Gemista me mayo?!?! No thank you. 

Hey - hate to crack jokes in this honestly very scary time - but maybe this crisis will cure Greeks' of their present addiction pasta dishes with krema galaktos? I lived in Northern Italy for over 4 years and never saw half as much heavy creamy pastas as there are in Greece. Ew.

Any other "bright sides" we can find?


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Oh, I'm sure I can think of a few!!!

- no one is getting their electricity bill because DEH can't afford the paper to print them out!
- they haven't staffed the brand new tollbooths on the Egnatia Highway because they can't afford to hire toll-takers, so it's a free ride even though they were going to start charging in July...
- if Greece leaves the Euro, some of us expats with money in non-Euro currency could see our buying power in Greece increase.

that's all I have now...


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## athenakoll (Jan 2, 2010)

I suppose on the brighter side, we are taking the opportunity to discover Athens more. Going for picnics on Filopapou, taking advantage of free museum entry days using the bus/metro more instead of the car, which means more exercise for us, and my youngest child enjoys it more than when we used to spend every Sunday at a taverna!


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## dubioustranger (Jun 3, 2011)

...and meanwhile the rich Greek shipowner families (Onassis , Niarchos) are wallowing in money, everybody seems to have forgotten them, as long as the European taxpayer is there to help the Greek economy, why disturb the Greek billionaires?


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

No one has forgotten them. Articles on the topic are in every damn newspaper in Greece every week. You must have gotten behind on your reading


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## dubioustranger (Jun 3, 2011)

And what are the Greek medias saying ? didn't read or hear a word in the Anglo saxon (Daily Mail , Huffington Post, Daily Telegraph) and German medias. It seems that these people are completely forgotten (did the Greek government asked them to contribute financially ?)


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

The usual stories about tax evasion, stories about wealthy people being arrested in the middle of the night at their mansions, jabs at people who live high on the hog, the usual. It's long been fodder for the media.


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## athenakoll (Jan 2, 2010)

I think that the situation here would be more tolerable if the companies and ministers and people in high places who have robbed the Greek economy for years and have been let to get away with it, were publicly put on trial and made to pay back what they've stolen. I'm talking billions of euros! But no, the ministers have asylum (for use of a better word) from the legal system! So you and I and the pensioners and minimum wagers have to pay for all the pilfering of funds from the public sector to pay the workers int eh public sector. If the guilty and under suspicion were brought to justice, I wouldn't mind living so frugally, if I knew that it's in the best interest for Greece and her future, for heaven's sake, everyone has to pay taxes.:


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

It should be pointed out of course that public sector workers CANNOT evade taxes. The government deposits their paycheck directly into the bank after withholding taxes and knows exactly what they make. 

As the wife of a very poorly paid Greek public servant, I'm absolutely SICK of hearing about public sector workers evading taxes. We pay 100% of the taxes that apply to us and yet 3/4 of the times that we go to small businesses, they don't offer a receipt, so we have to ask. Who is really evading taxes? Do you honestly believe it's REALLY the kindergarten teacher (public servant)?

(Athena, this isn't directed at you, just a reaction to what we hear a lot of.)


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## athenakoll (Jan 2, 2010)

WKA hello,
rightly so, not all public workers are the same, however, a large majority choose to be in the public sector simply because they can never be fired. The exceptions for me are the Firefighters, elementary school teachers, police officers (hmm) and a few others. In most of the public sector jobs, the employees were paid much more than their worth, worked much less than they should have and shamefully blackmailed anyone wanting an official paper for important things. Doctors at hospitals?, Nurses, DEH, Building permits and so on. In my previous statement, I actually did not say that public workers don't pay taxes, that was my afterthought of the Greek public in general. Yes, I know in many businesses they don't give a receipt, and that is the mentality that has to be changed, but when you have business, did you know that even if you pay all your proper taxes faithfully, the tax officer will pay a visit, ask to check you books, he'll find something on a technicality, give you a fine if you don't bribe him, and then after all that, every 3-5 years you are made to pay a supplementary tax just incase you did a previous tax evasion?! So it's a vicious cycle, and the corrupt culprits have to be punished, and then IF and that happens and is used as an example then I'm sure the Greeks (especially the younger ones) will start to become northern europeanized.Whew, I'll take a breather now.


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## GR Joe (Nov 28, 2011)

The Situation here has gotten beyond a joke and we are planning to leave after 8 happy years in greece and having finally gotten fluent in one of the most difficult languages there is.
I work in the private sector for a firm that is actually doing very well as it is an exporter so not affected by the collapse of the greek market, with typical greek logic the firm has taken advantage of the crisis non the less, cutting hours and wages with the hope of recieving government grants to "ailing" companies.therefore the boss steals from the government and his staff at the same time whilst keeping up the same amount of production -clever eh?

the cost of living has gone through the roof and shows no sign of slowing its rise. I am a skilled worker with what was a relatively high wage and I cant cope - how the staff here that make 500 euro a month are surviving is beyond me.

I came to greece for my health as I had a long term arthritic problem which the greek climate helped cure so leaving greece is abig risk i swore I would never do. even so I am packing up my stuff. -that should put the severity of the situation in prerspective.

For those planning on coming here i can only say be prepared. If you are financially secure you should be ok but have a "plan B" ready for what you will do when/ If greece goes bankrupt. (as far as I am concerned it is when and my bet is soon)

For years my greek mates have joked that greece is a third world country, which seems sadly prophetic now.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

GR Joe, how about another country nearby? You already speak Greek, Cyprus has a similar but even hotter and drier climate. Just an idea, thinking about your arthritis.


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## GR Joe (Nov 28, 2011)

I have tried but Cyprus is now overrun with greeks (5 mates of mine includes) who have recently left greece, its a tiny economy with a growing surplus of qualified workers. Plus my mates there tell me wages are being driven down by the new influx of greeks used to working for peanuts and without insurance etc. I have sent my CV alover the world to companies who are advertizing for employees and those that arent but are in my field - the greeks and cypriots simply do not reply whilst I get 4-5 emails a day from the UK and Ireland.
thanks for the thought though.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Oh well, it was an idea. We've thought about Cyprus too. My husband is half-Cypriot and we have a lot of family there, but there are no openings for his work there either.


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## Surfin USA (Nov 11, 2011)

You guys may wish to note that the Portuguese site has just started an identical thread.

My first impressions are that you are having a far rougher ride than the ex-pats in Spain or Portugal.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Surfin USA said:


> You guys may wish to note that the Portuguese site has just started an identical thread.
> 
> My first impressions are that you are having a far rougher ride than the ex-pats in Spain or Portugal.



http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...ncial-situation-affecting-you.html#post671483

Jo xxx


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## precociousindy (Dec 6, 2011)

The person I am living with in Crete gets paid very infrequently but it stuck working there hoping he will get paid eventually. He works black like most people in the service industry do so that the employer doesn't have to pay into the health insurance program.

I have noticed that in the hotel industry at least, every worker is taking what they can from the hotel. Soaps, food, etc. perhaps in a good economy it isn't much different but the feeling now is they are doing this because they must. Many honest people otherwise, are conceding that they have to do this in order to survive especially when the pay is so infrequent. 

Things are bad, that is true, however being from capitalist America I also see that many Greek businesses are simply lazy and could be more profitable with some effort.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Precociousindy, that is a rough situation. I have friends who are teachers in the public schools who don't get paid on time either. It's everywhere. It's very difficult to get by when you don't get paid or don't get paid regularly. We had a friend over to play Monopoly tonight, she has gone unpaid for most of the school year. She still shows up for work every morning at the school, and works in the evenings as well.


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