# REALLY stupid question; boiling water



## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

Okay guys. I know that this is REALLY REALLY stupid, and a total waste of space.

I recognize that I am 7000 feet above sea level. I recognize that because of the altitude, my cooking times are a LOT longer.

But I have NEVER had trouble boiling water in higher altitudes. Of course, the highest altitude I have cooked in is about 5k above sea level.

Now, I don't profess to be a cook, but someone please tell me something. And I apologize profusely for the inane content of this thread.

I waited for forty minutes for water to boil at high gas level on my stove, with TONS of salt in it at 7k altitude in Mex City the other day. Now in Dallas, it takes about 10-15 at most with the amount of water. Super-low altitude of course, but I am trying to use this as a point of comparison for myself to determine the amount of time it might take between the altitude differences.

All I wanted to do was hard boil some eggs. I could NOT get the water to boil.

I used salt like I do in the states to try to get the water to boil faster. No go. More salt. No go.

Does water not boil up this high? Am I stupid? What am I doing wrong? I have other things I need to boil, like pasta and stuff. How am I being stupid? Please help!

Michelle


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

The water should boil at lower temps.

The gas will burn cooler IIRC.

Salt slows things down. Add it later.

You used a lid?


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## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

Okay. No on the lid, since never had to do that. No on the lower temps, since we use high temps at lower altitudes.

In lower altitudes, we add salt in the beginning because that speeds things up.

So basically, up is down and down is up? 

Let me just make sure I understand.

Don't use highest setting.
Use lid to boil water.
Don't add salt.

What does it mean "gas will burn cooler at IIRC?"

Thanks in advance.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Is it a gas stove? The gas itself will burn cooler.

Use the highest setting you have. Salt raises the boiling point if I think.


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## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

Oh okay.

Gotcha. No salt, like in the states, which actually helped it boil.

Put lid on pot. Use highest setting like I did. I'll give this a shot.

So, guys, any idea how long I should wait for like, say, a bigger pot of water? Would you wait thirty to forty minutes, if it took me say, 15 minutes at low altitude for the same pot of water back in the states if I am at 7k altitude? Sorry, I am still on freakin' American system, and haven't converted to metric in my head yet.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Salt indeed raises the boiling point of water (minutely) - regardless of elevation. Higher elevations lower the boiling point of water so it should boil more quickly if elevation was the only factor. 
In my experience I have to wait much longer for water to boil here in Mexico but I decided that it's because the stoves and gas supplies are different and the burners don't provide as much heat as my trusty old stove did in the US. I have found some stoves with more powerful burners that boil stuff more quickly. I will have to buy a stove within a year (I'm renting for now but when my house is done...) and I wish I could test the burners in the store!


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## MangoMike (Apr 7, 2010)

*Burner Ratings*



circle110 said:


> Salt indeed raises the boiling point of water (minutely) - regardless of elevation. Higher elevations lower the boiling point of water so it should boil more quickly if elevation was the only factor.
> In my experience I have to wait much longer for water to boil here in Mexico but I decided that it's because the stoves and gas supplies are different and the burners don't provide as much heat as my trusty old stove did in the US. I have found some stoves with more powerful burners that boil stuff more quickly. I will have to buy a stove within a year (I'm renting for now but when my house is done...) and I wish I could test the burners in the store!


All stovetop burners gas or electric have a BTU/Hr rating. Cheaper ranges typically have low BTU/Hr burners while the upper end one like my Thermador typically have higher ratings and better control. Not sure but I think the avg ones are about 11,000 and better ones around 18,000. I am also a homebrewer and built a stove with a 35,000 BTU/Hr propane burner. Try bringing 12 gallons to a boil with a small burner, .. just isn't going to happen. It's all basic science and available by Google-ing. Sé cocinar feliz!
MM


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## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

Well gee, I guess my simple thread isn't so simple after all!!!!

I didn't know that elevation lowered the boiling point of water. I think that I am going to need to take a class on meteorology / weather patterns etc to be able to cook up here.

So, since I despise cooking, I will just pretend this is science. I will 

1. cover pot
2. use no salt
3. run gas as high as possible
4. use smaller pot
5. hang dead chicken over stove and do silly chant that makes neighbors think I am crazy
6. Wait forty to sixty minutes and see what happens and then report back.

Sound good?

Michelle


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## elchante (Dec 22, 2008)

just wait until you try to bake something at that altitude in a mexican oven!!


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## ken_in_dfw (Nov 14, 2009)

I think your problem is the infamous variability of Mexican cooking appliances. circle110 is right. Your stove may look like it's putting out a bunch of BTUs, but chances are it's fooling you.

Covering the pot will help water to come to a boil faster at any elevation because it traps the steam, removing the evaporative effect that lowers the temperature of the water. (I do this here in Dallas at 575 feet above sea level because I'm an inpatient cook.)

Water actually boils at a lower temperature the higher up you go. HOWEVER, what really makes a difference is the atmospheric barometric pressure. The lower the pressure, the lower the temperature required to boil water. The average atmospheric pressure at sea level is 30 inches of mercury. The average air pressure at 7000 feet above sea level (approximately the elevation of Mexico D.F.) is 23 inches of mercury. Therefore, it usually takes a lower temperature to get water to boil at a higher elevation.

Where people get confused is that it takes longer for things to cook. This is because cooking is a function of temperature and time. If your air pressure at 7000 feet is lower than it would be by the sea (and chances are that it is), then the water will boil at a lower temperature - say 199 degrees F instead of 212. So you're cooking something (like a potato) at a lower temperature. And so it takes longer to cook the potato at 199 degrees than it would at 212.

In sum:

1) Cook on the most powerful burner you can use
2) Cover the pot
3) Don't salt the water
4) Plan on items taking longer to cook in the boiling water than you're used to at sea level.
5) As always when cooking, hope for the best and plan for the worst. ¡Provecho!


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## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

Oh. My. God.

Can someone recommend some kind of science course on this? Ken_in_DFW, I just moved from there (like, two weeks ago). I lived in Frisco. Anyway, I always wondered how high we were above sea level. Now I know.

Thank you so much for the lesson. I had no idea I would need a total science course in this. I work in Business Intelligence with databases and stuff; not a meteorologist at ALL. 

Of course, I did know about cooking times in altitudes, and I absolutely LOATHE cooking. I always tell my friends that I need a mife (man-wife), because I am a career-chick; no domestic ability whatsoever.

Can anyone tell that I "can't even boil water"? I guess that's literally the case here. Hehe.

I think I will get a barometer, go sit outside, and find out what the pressure is. 

Find some general calculation online. 

Get the EXACT boiling temperature for 7k feet altitude above sea level.

Determine the BTUs on the stove, and adjust for +/- variance with wind gusts since we keep windows open.

Determine cups of water (yes CUPS  , as I have yet to be able to convert, (see note below), figure that into the algorithm, put candy thermometer into pot, and see if algorithm works.

Come up with theorem for the perfect algorithm. 

If algorithm fails, adjust theorem, reapply to algorithm until algorithm is perfect.

LOL!

**Note**
Okay. You will find this funny. THIS is cooking for me. Again NOT DOMESTIC. I was going to make one of those pasta in a packet thingies. It said, add "blah blah" ml of water.

pause...

Uh...

Okay. Now I have to boot computer, turn on Igoogle to get to my unit converter. Seriously? No. I am so not going to do that just to convert especially since I can't even boil water yet. AND this means cooking. Nope. Peanut butter out of a jar and a spoon it is again for dinner thank you very much. At least my spoon isn't measured in milligrams; at least, it didn't speak to me that way...And if it did, I might run screaming into the other room.


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## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

My apologies. My response should have been short and to the point. I am used to other boards where the content can be light and jovial with others who have things in common.

From here-on-out, I will abstain from straying from the content with jokes and jovial humor.

No one got onto me or anything; I read the rules of the forum, and believe that I broke the rules with my jokes.

Please accept my apologies.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Ha! I just got back from vacation.
True; please try to stay on topic, but a bit of humor is just fine.
If the altitude is high enough, the water will boil at such a low temperature that the food just won't cook.


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## MJB5293 (Feb 26, 2009)

*boling water*

Air pressure affects the boiling point. Water does not ALWAYS boil at 212 degrees F. It only boils at 212 at sea level with pressure at around 14 psi. As you increase altitude, this pressure drops, thus, water will boil at a LOWER temperature. Roughly, the temperature at which water will boil drops just under 1 degree per 550 ft. So, at 7,500 ft. elevation, water would boil at around 198 degrees. This explains why foods cooked in boiling water at high elevations take longer to cook. 



cheldear said:


> Okay guys. I know that this is REALLY REALLY stupid, and a total waste of space.
> 
> I recognize that I am 7000 feet above sea level. I recognize that because of the altitude, my cooking times are a LOT longer.
> 
> ...


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## canajun (Jul 10, 2010)

Once you get the water to boil, if you are trying to cook for eg an egg, it will take longer to bring it to the desired hardness at higher elevation. The water is boiling but is not actually as hot as at sea level. So if you like a soft 2 min egg, cook it longer when higher.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

And for some things (not boiled eggs obviously) why not consider a pressure cooker?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Finally! John Boy has given you the key to cooking at high altitudes. You must contain the pressure created by boiling water, rather than letting it escape. Increasing the pressure in a closed vessel will raise the boiling point of the water, simulating sea level or even lower altitudes, making cooking faster at the resultant higher temperatures.
Another suggestion: Use heavy pots and pans which will hold heat better and distribute it evenly across the bottom.
Do pay attention to the BTU ratings when shopping for stoves, or even outdoor grilles.


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## cheldear (Apr 14, 2010)

Did some research the other day on baking and cooking at high altitude. They recommended using pressure cooker for beans and various other things.

I DID finally get my water to boil; apparently, the burner that I was using was not a good burner. My aunt told me this after the fact.

I did, however, have to cover the pot to get the water to boil and keep it covered.

I didn't bring my pressure cooker with me since it was too much of a pain to bring everything down since I didn't know if I was going to be able to get an FM3 or whatever. And, it's just plain expensive to move furniture, cooking supplies, etc.

But now that you mentioned the pressure cooker, and I had read about it the other day when researching altitude cooking, I am going to invest in one.

Thank you for the recommendation and solution.

BTW, whoever was talking about the BTUs on the oven and range and stuff, this is a very poor oven and range, so that probably had a lot to do with it as well.

And my egg salad did turn out very nicely.

I AM going to have to take a course in chemistry and meteorology.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You will understand those courses much better, if you first take some physics courses.


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