# Can an annuity count as income for Social Security?



## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Here's a really challenging question - I think. Hopefully someone can figure this out...

As a Spanish citizen, I'm allowed healthcare if I have a job or if I'm on a pension. I can't work anymore because I'm too sick, so I'm applying for Canada Disability Pension. It can take a very long time before I find out if I'm accepted for the Disability Pension. Until I find out if I'm eligible for the pension, I can't get my Social Security #, which I need to get my healthcare card. 

But I've been thinking there may be another way that I can get my Social Security #, which is through a monthly annuity that I get. Does anyone know if an annuity is counted as savings or as income? If it can be counted as income, perhaps I can apply for my SS# with the annuity? 

I've looked at the SS website and can't find anything remotely helpful. Here is their website map so perhaps someone else might be able to figure this out Seguridad Social:Site Map :fingerscrossed:


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> But I've been thinking there may be another way that I can get my Social Security #, which is through a monthly annuity that I get. Does anyone know if an annuity is counted as savings or as income? If it can be counted as income, perhaps I can apply for my SS# with the annuity?
> 
> I've looked at the SS website and can't find anything remotely helpful. Here is their website map so perhaps someone else might be able to figure this out Seguridad Social:Site Map :fingerscrossed:



I must say I'm rather confused - what has income got to do with SS numbers?

For us Europeans, we need to show income to get a residence certificate but I've never heard anyone needing proof of income to get an SS number.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I must say I'm rather confused - what has income got to do with SS numbers?
> 
> For us Europeans, we need to show income to get a residence certificate but I've never heard anyone needing proof of income to get an SS number.


 Don't you have to be working to get a SS#?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> Don't you have to be working to get a SS#?


... don't think so.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> ... don't think so.


 So I can't work without a SS#, but that does not mean that I *have* to work to have a SS#?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I don't think so. Look here
Seguridad Social:Información útil


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think so. Look here
> Seguridad Social:Información útil


 I'm sorry, but I don't understand that chart as the Spanish is too difficult for me. Could you please explain that you're pointing out?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Maybe it's better that I put my question this way... I understand the order of identification that I need to get is as follows:
1. Spanish citizenship.
2. Spanish passport.
3. Empadronamiento.
4. DNI.
5. SS#.
6. Healthcard.

At what point in that six-step list do I have to prove that I have a job/income/pension?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Maybe it's better that I put my question this way... I understand the order of identification that I need to get is as follows:
> 1. Spanish citizenship.
> 2. Spanish passport.
> 3. Empadronamiento.
> ...


are you absolutely certain that you have to???

& your DNI is your proof of Spanish citizenship & you only need a passport to travel outside Europe - your DNI card is sufficient for travel within Europe


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> are you absolutely certain that you have to???


 I think so, because of this:

Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Asistencia Sanitaria en Canadá


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I think so, because of this:
> 
> Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Asistencia Sanitaria en Canadá



what about section B1 part e?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> what about section B1 part e?


 Meaning do I make over 100,000 euros a year? No. Not even close!!! Not even a teensie weensie bit close. 

Since looking at that site a few months ago, my Spanish is a little better, and now that I look at this, I think this is not what I thought it was before. I thought this was a list of qualifications for regular healthcare. But now that I read this, I think this is something completely different, that being a healthcare assistance program on top of regular healthcare. Is that correct?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Meaning do I make over 100,000 euros a year? No. Not even close!!! Not even a teensie weensie bit close.
> 
> Since looking at that site a few months ago, my Spanish is a little better, and now that I look at this, I think this is not what I thought it was before. I thought this was a list of qualifications for regular healthcare. But now that I read this, I think this is something completely different, that being a healthcare assistance program on top of regular healthcare. Is that correct?


it says that if you're a 'returning' Spanish national & you live in Spain, & have an income of less than 100,000€ a year you are 'insured' inasmuch as you are entitled to free state healthcare


now I'm not 100% certain that applies to, since you aren't exactly a 'returning' Spanish national as much as a 'new, just arrived' one .......


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> it says that if you're a 'returning' Spanish national & you live in Spain, & have an income of less than 100,000€ a year you are 'insured' inasmuch as you are entitled to free state healthcare
> 
> 
> now I'm not 100% certain that applies to, since you aren't exactly a 'returning' Spanish national as much as a 'new, just arrived' one .......


 They told me at the Consulate of Spain in Toronto that I'm considered "returning," but I don't know how official that term is in my case. It's all so very, very confusing since I've never lived in Spain so the rules are sometimes different - such as getting my DNI for the first time and getting my healthcard for the first time. Then of course there are assumptions made that I know what's going on since I'm returning - when in fact I'm not. 

But if what you're saying in this thread is true, that I don't need a job to get healthcare... Well, I can't tell you how absolutely unequivocally positively amazing that would be. 

What should I do at this point? I'm so overwhelmed. Perhaps I should just take one ID step at a time and see where I'm led?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I forgot to thank you guys... Thank you so much your help Snikpoh, Pesky Wesky and Xabiachica.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> They told me at the Consulate of Spain in Toronto that I'm considered "returning," but I don't know how official that term is in my case. It's all so very, very confusing since I've never lived in Spain so the rules are sometimes different - such as getting my DNI for the first time and getting my healthcard for the first time. Then of course there are assumptions made that I know what's going on since I'm returning - when in fact I'm not.
> 
> But if what you're saying in this thread is true, that I don't need a job to get healthcare... Well, I can't tell you how absolutely unequivocally positively amazing that would be.
> 
> What should I do at this point? I'm so overwhelmed. Perhaps I should just take one ID step at a time and see where I'm led?


well if you're a 'returner then I'd say you're covered

just take it one step at a time...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't understand that chart as the Spanish is too difficult for me. Could you please explain that you're pointing out?


Well, I'm not sure so perhaps the others can help out here, but the first part of the chart says

Who can ask for one?
Then in the first rectangle it says
All *citizens* or workers (self employed or others) who don't already have one.

Aren't you a Spanish citizen?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> well if you're a 'returner then I'd say you're covered
> 
> just take it one step at a time...


 Oh, I hope to be considered a returner. Yes, one step at a time, so I don't trip.



Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, I'm not sure so perhaps the others can help out here, but the first part of the chart says
> 
> Who can ask for one?
> Then in the first rectangle it says
> ...


 Yes, I'm a Spanish citizen, so that should cover me. But I thought to get my healthcard I need to work or have some income. I don't know where I came across that before, no matter how long I look for it now. 

But the more I think about what you guys are saying, this makes sense. Otherwise, Spaniards without a job or other income would be without healthcare. It's the same in Canada, that you don't need to have an income or work to be eligible for public healthcare - as long as you are a Canadian citizen and a resident of a province. So I really think you're right here.

I can't tell you guys how much of a relief this is to me! It can take up to six months before I find out whether or not I get the Canada Pension Disability. If they deny me, there are three levels of appeal, with each level taking several months. So you can just imagine, especially being sick, how costly my healthcare could be over what could be a span of over a year. Once again, my Angels in Spain have come to my rescue. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is now going to be a good weekend.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Oh, I hope to be considered a returner. Yes, one step at a time, so I don't trip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well until 2 years ago, Spanish citizens with no income didn't get healthcare.....


as for the requirement for a job etc - I think you're getting confused with non-Spanish citizens - if you were one of those you would indeed need to be working to get healthcare


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> well until 2 years ago, Spanish citizens with no income didn't get healthcare.....
> 
> 
> as for the requirement for a job etc - I think you're getting confused with non-Spanish citizens - if you were one of those you would indeed need to be working to get healthcare


 Perhaps that's what I'm getting confused from having read in the past - old rules for Spaniards and from others on this forum who do need an income for healthcare. I'll use that as my reason for getting so confused. Thanks for the out.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

All heart, please check all this out with the Seg Soc when you get a chance 
Have a good weekend!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> All heart, please check all this out with the Seg Soc when you get a chance
> Have a good weekend!


 Yes, I'll check with Seg Soc for sure. On Monday, I'll get my empadronamiento. Then I'll get my DNI. Then I'll check with Seg Soc. Then I'll check with healthcare. At this point, I'll just take one step at a time, so that I can stay sane through this. 

Yes, I'm going to have a good weekend now that I have a glimmer of hope from you guys. Oh, and now that I have my very awesome apartment.  I hope you have a great weekend yourself. Again, thanks for all your help. Take care.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I got up at 7:50 (pretty late for me) and went directly to the garden shears and cut the honeysuckle hedge that we have. It was so bad it was actually growing all over the tiled floor, but it faces south and by 10:00 it's just been too hot to do anything. (Madrid is having a long hot end to the summer) As OH and I usually leave the house at 7:10 there's been no time to cut the blumming hedge. By 9:30 it was all bagged and swept, just leaving an awkward corner for Him to do, which he doesn't know about yet! . Other than that it's pottering, housework, preparing classes and a day's walking on Sunday with tortilla sandwiches for lunch and a dry Martini to finish the day with hopefully









Valle de la Fuenfria: rutas a pie

PS Your flat sounds amazing


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I got up at 7:50 (pretty late for me) and went directly to the garden shears and cut the honeysuckle hedge that we have. It was so bad it was actually growing all over the tiled floor, but it faces south and by 10:00 it's just been too hot to do anything. (Madrid is having a long hot end to the summer) As OH and I usually leave the house at 7:10 there's been no time to cut the blumming hedge. By 9:30 it was all bagged and swept, just leaving an awkward corner for Him to do, which he doesn't know about yet! . Other than that it's pottering, housework, preparing classes and a day's walking on Sunday with* tortilla sandwiches *for lunch and a dry Martini to finish the day with hopefully
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I LOVE tortilla boccies & sandwiches - with olive oil on the bread......

my English friends think I'm really weird.....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I LOVE tortilla boccies & sandwiches - with olive oil on the bread......
> 
> my English friends think I'm really weird.....


And if you're out in the open air, and on top of that you didn't make them yourself, I guarantee you they are _*un verdadero manjar*
_
PS have seen your message_
_


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I got up at 7:50 (pretty late for me) and went directly to the garden shears and cut the honeysuckle hedge that we have. It was so bad it was actually growing all over the tiled floor, but it faces south and by 10:00 it's just been too hot to do anything. (Madrid is having a long hot end to the summer) As OH and I usually leave the house at 7:10 there's been no time to cut the blumming hedge. By 9:30 it was all bagged and swept, just leaving an awkward corner for Him to do, which he doesn't know about yet! . Other than that it's pottering, housework, preparing classes and a day's walking on Sunday with tortilla sandwiches for lunch and a dry Martini to finish the day with hopefully
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What beautiful images you paint in my head of your weekend. Thanks for those images. 

Yes, in my experience too the two best ways to maximize the taste of food are eating in the open air and having someone else make the food. 

I'm not clear on why you posted the blog link. Is that your blog?

It's hot here in Malaga too, but my apartment is perfect, as the windows don't get direct sunlight. So it's quite cool. 

It's been a crazy busy week to find this apartment, do the negotiations and move in. I also met my new family doctor for the first time this week. He's an real sweetheart and an excellent doctor. We meet eye to eye in my healthcare needs, so that's a huge relief and comfort. Now that the two biggest steps are done (apartment and family doctor), my weekend will be entirely devoted to chilling out, and bonding with my apartment and neighbourhood. There's nothing exciting to report in my life yet, but once I'm settled in I hope to post something exciting too.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> What beautiful images you paint in my head of your weekend. Thanks for those images.
> 
> Yes, in my experience too the two best ways to maximize the taste of food are eating in the open air and having someone else make the food.
> 
> ...


Our doctor's name is Vicioso....but he's very nice too. Once when I had an ECG in his surgery from a nurse who didn't know my history and got alarmed when she saw the results and rushed to him, he got out a pencil and a copy of ABC and matched up the ECG against the newspaper edge, finally stating that everything was OK, no change. So I said,' Great, I guess that means I won't die over the weekend' to which he replied, 'Who knows...we could all die over the weekend...have a good weekend'.

I found that quite comforting....

Eating al fresco makes even my cooking taste like Cordon Bleu. We eat outside whenever we can throughout the year.

Glad to know all is progressing smoothly, Spanish bureaucracy isn't as labrynthine as some fear.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I'm not clear on why you posted the blog link. Is that your blog?


No, I just posted it if anyone wanted more info on Fuenfría


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> . Now that the two biggest steps are done (apartment and family doctor), my weekend will be entirely devoted to chilling out, and bonding with my apartment and neighbourhood. There's nothing exciting to report in my life yet, but once I'm settled in I hope to post something exciting too.


I think that's exciting enough!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, I just posted it if anyone wanted more info on Fuenfría


Gotcha.



Pesky Wesky said:


> I think that's exciting enough!


Well, it's exciting for me. Thank you for sharing in my enthusiasm. 



mrypg9 said:


> Our doctor's name is Vicioso....but he's very nice too. Once when I had an ECG in his surgery from a nurse who didn't know my history and got alarmed when she saw the results and rushed to him, he got out a pencil and a copy of ABC and matched up the ECG against the newspaper edge, finally stating that everything was OK, no change. So I said,' Great, I guess that means I won't die over the weekend' to which he replied, 'Who knows...we could all die over the weekend...have a good weekend'.
> 
> I found that quite comforting....
> 
> ...


Yes, thanks to you guys, things are progressing quite smoothly so far.

Dr. Vicioso? That's funny. My doctor's name is funny too: Dr. Paine. 

The thing about dying... I've been on my deathbed since my teens with one illness and disorder after another. Up until three weeks ago, almost every part of my body was sick from something. Then three weeks ago, I was diagnosed with two types of breast cancer - ductal carcinoma in situ and invasive carcinoma - and it's already spreading. I'm so fortunate that I decided to move to Malaga because there is an organisation here that my doctor is referring me to - CUDECA. Here's their website, in case you or anyone else is interested: Cudeca Foundation¸ Cancer Hospice¸ Costa del Sol They specialise in palliative care for terminal cancer. Palliative care is the route I've decided to take. I'm sick and tired of all the invasive tests and exams, and of being sick all the time. I should have been dead decades ago, but thanks to my fighting spirit I've lasted this long. My last wish was and is to live in Spain. And here I am.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So glad you made it to Spain.
Enjoy.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So glad you made it to Spain.


 Once again, thank you for your shared enthusiasm.



Pesky Wesky said:


> Enjoy.


 I promise.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to,hear that. But nil desperandum. I have a friend here in Spain who beat breast cancer and colon cancer within five years. You will find yourself wanting to fight for your new life in Spain. 

I know CUDECA very well, they have a branch and shop in Estepona and I often meet up with their volunteers. They do great work.

Two years ago a friend nagged at me to have a free health check so to shut her up I went. I went to the surgery thinking I was 100% fit and emerged after being told I had numerous serious heart disorders and blood pressure so dangerously high that I was in imminent danger of a stroke or heart attack. . Well, I laughed. What else could I do? Tbh I'd had warning signs for quite a while but ignored them. Once I stopped laughing I felt indignant that this should happen...to me!! So I detemined I would do everything in my power to put things right. I lost weight, exercised more, drank less wine and coffee, cut out some of my favourite foods...and now, after several visits to the hospital and numerous tests, ECGs etc. I was told that surgery is now ruled out, everything that was severe is now 'ligero' and I feel great. Only downside is having to take five pills daily...but wtf!! 
I'm telling you this because sometimes you have more power over what happens to you than you think. Me, I want to live as long as I can. I love life. So at the risk of being trite....think positive.

Nil illegitimi vobis carborandum, as the saying goes.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Sorry to,hear that. But nil desperandum. I have a friend here in Spain who beat breast cancer and colon cancer within five years. You will find yourself wanting to fight for your new life in Spain.
> 
> I know CUDECA very well, they have a branch and shop in Estepona and I often meet up with their volunteers. They do great work.
> 
> ...


Mary, thank you for your encouraging stories. It's really good to hear your story of revival. As I said in my post, I've been sick for a very long time, and this is just the last straw. Even if I wanted to undergo treatment, I couldn't at this point because I'm too sick. In July, a routine mammogram was suspicious for cancer, and to be honest at that point I was wishing for cancer because I'm so very, very tired of fighting. I've lived a clean lifestyle my whole life and pulled out every possible tool for coping with illness, and I've gone as far as I can. The only thing I do 'wrong' is smoke. But I have reasons for that. Abraham Lincoln said, _"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues."_ So smoking is proof that I am virtuous.  Also, if I didn't smoke, I'd be pretty much perfect, and who wants to befriend a person who is perfect? So smoking ensures friendship in my life. 

Kidding aside, somehow I still look fabulous on the outside. 

OK, to be serious now... I've led a full life and I'm ready to go. The mods are very strict on this forum about staying on topic in a thread, and since I found out about CUDECA on Tuesday, I've been wanting to get information from people on the forum. But I didn't know how to bring it up. So now that I've 'come out' about my cancer, perhaps I could start a new thread about this and you could provide your input, since you say you know of CUDECA? I would really appreciate your help with that. What do you think?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Mary, thank you for your encouraging stories. It's really good to hear your story of revival. As I said in my post, I've been sick for a very long time, and this is just the last straw. Even if I wanted to undergo treatment, I couldn't at this point because I'm too sick. In July, a routine mammogram was suspicious for cancer, and to be honest at that point I was wishing for cancer because I'm so very, very tired of fighting. I've lived a clean lifestyle my whole life and pulled out every possible tool for coping with illness, and I've gone as far as I can. The only thing I do 'wrong' is smoke. But I have reasons for that. Abraham Lincoln said, _"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues."_ So smoking is proof that I am virtuous.  Also, if I didn't smoke, I'd be pretty much perfect, and who wants to befriend a person who is perfect? So smoking ensures friendship in my life.
> 
> Kidding aside, somehow I still look fabulous on the outside.
> 
> OK, to be serious now... I've led a full life and I'm ready to go. The mods are very strict on this forum about staying on topic in a thread, and since I found out about CUDECA on Tuesday, I've been wanting to get information from people on the forum. But I didn't know how to bring it up. So now that I've 'come out' about my cancer, perhaps I could start a new thread about this and you could provide your input, since you say you know of CUDECA? I would really appreciate your help with that. What do you think?


I really don't know enough in detail,about how CUDECA functions. The best thing you coulddo,is google them.

One of my favourite authors, George Orwell, wrote 'It is not given to one person to have all the vices' so I guess you're allowed one!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I really don't know enough in detail,about how CUDECA functions. The best thing you coulddo,is google them.


 Yes, I already have googled them, and they look fabulous. I'm looking to talk to people on the forum who have any experience with them. 



mrypg9 said:


> One of my favourite authors, George Orwell, wrote 'It is not given to one person to have all the vices' so I guess you're allowed one!


 Thank you for your blessing.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Mary, thank you for your encouraging stories. It's really good to hear your story of revival. As I said in my post, I've been sick for a very long time, and this is just the last straw. Even if I wanted to undergo treatment, I couldn't at this point because I'm too sick. In July, a routine mammogram was suspicious for cancer, and to be honest at that point I was wishing for cancer because I'm so very, very tired of fighting. I've lived a clean lifestyle my whole life and pulled out every possible tool for coping with illness, and I've gone as far as I can. The only thing I do 'wrong' is smoke. But I have reasons for that. Abraham Lincoln said, _"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues."_ So smoking is proof that I am virtuous.  Also, if I didn't smoke, I'd be pretty much perfect, and who wants to befriend a person who is perfect? So smoking ensures friendship in my life.
> 
> Kidding aside, somehow I still look fabulous on the outside.
> 
> OK, to be serious now... I've led a full life and I'm ready to go. The mods are very strict on this forum about staying on topic in a thread, and since I found out about CUDECA on Tuesday, I've been wanting to get information from people on the forum. But I didn't know how to bring it up. So now that I've 'come out' about my cancer, perhaps I could start a new thread about this and you could provide your input, since you say you know of CUDECA? I would really appreciate your help with that. What do you think?


I think we've dealt with the original title of the thread?

you take it anywhere you want to now

I don't know te organisation, but they sound pretty amazing from what I've just read

so glad you got your wish & made it here to Spain


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I think we've dealt with the original title of the thread?


 I'm not 100% positive yet, and we'll see when I get to Social Security. I do hope you guys are right.



xabiachica said:


> you take it anywhere you want to now


 Thank you. 



xabiachica said:


> I don't know te organisation, but they sound pretty amazing from what I've just read


 So we both know as much at this point. Yes, pretty amazing indeed.



xabiachica said:


> so glad you got your wish & made it here to Spain


 Thank you.


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