# Baby Passport?



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh boy! I just realized the time is nearing to when I'm going to be submitting my application for a spousal visa... (NERVES ARE KICKING IN ALREADY!!)

I was told that my newborn son is a UK citizen by decent (Because his daddy is a UK citizen who was born in the UK himself) even though he (our son) was born in the US and will have a US passport and all that jazz.... and also doesn't need a visa to move to the U.K because of this....

I failed to think of this sooner! So I'm asking you all! 

Do/Should I send his US passport in with the application (sending in his birth cert. as well obviously) even though he will not need a visa? (I'm thinking yes to this question, but thought I'd ask)

But more importantly.... do we need to get his U.K passport before we apply for 'my' spousal visa? Or can we get it in the U.K (when and if visa gets approved) when we arrive there? Cause I know here in the U.S he (our son) has to be present to get a U.S passport when applying... I'm unsure of how the U.K ones work.


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

If your son is entitled to a UK passport, you should put in for that as soon as possible - before you go to the UK. Not sure if it's required for your visa application but the passport shouldn't take all that long to obtain and it will save you endless grief in the moving process.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hollylane said:


> Oh boy! I just realized the time is nearing to when I'm going to be submitting my application for a spousal visa... (NERVES ARE KICKING IN ALREADY!!)
> 
> I was told that my newborn son is a UK citizen by decent (Because his daddy is a UK citizen who was born in the UK himself) even though he (our son) was born in the US and will have a US passport and all that jazz.... and also doesn't need a visa to move to the U.K because of this....
> 
> ...


It will make things a lot simpler to get his British passport now, rather than later in UK. If he has his US passport already, you will have to submit it together with the application but will be returned. Just go the UK embassy site and follow instructions on how to apply:
How to apply from USA
Plus Form C2 and Notes (click on right-hand side)
The processing time can be up to 4 weeks, so bear this in mind when you submit your visa application.
If you decide not to apply for his British passport now, he will have to travel on his US passport, be admitted as visitor into UK at the port of arrival, and then apply for his British passport to the Identity and Passport Service (IPS). But to avoid any possible hassle at the arriving airport, it's much better to get his passport in advance.


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Thank you both for this information, and sadly... one more question! Though I'm unsure if you'll be able to answer this or not....

Does he (our son) need to be registered as a British citizen before all of this happens as well? From the research I've been doing... I'm getting two different answers. (insert crossed eyed look here)

I've read that I don't need a UK birth cert. to get him a UK passport but they 'recommend it' (whoever they are, I have no idea) 

I've been so busy with things on my end (getting his US documents) I've spaced out on his UK ones. 

Cause where as I know it's recommended to get his UK passport before leaving for the UK to avoid issues at the airport (which I do want to avoid) but worse case.... they stamp his US passport as a visitor (which can be up to 6 months) we would have the amount of time they stamp on his US passport to get his UK passport. 

I guess basically what my question is.... (in simple terms) Do we need to register our son as a U.K citizen and get him a U.K birth certificate proving he has U.K rights by decent.... before getting his passport.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hollylane said:


> Thank you both for this information, and sadly... one more question! Though I'm unsure if you'll be able to answer this or not....
> 
> Does he (our son) need to be registered as a British citizen before all of this happens as well? From the research I've been doing... I'm getting two different answers. (insert crossed eyed look here)
> 
> ...


Registering a child as a British citizen has a specific meaning under UK nationality law, and it doesn't apply here (it's to do with someone who was born of a parent who is British by descent; your husband is British otherwise than by descent because he was born in UK). What you are asking is registering his birth at a British consulate.
There is no need to register his birth at a British consulate in order to get his passport - his US birth certificate, plus proof of your husband's nationality (birth certificate, British passport, marriage certificate etc) will be sufficient. However, registering his birth does have its advantages, in that you will be able to obtain copies of his British birth certificate from the General Register Office in UK (your son's details will be sent by the consulate to GRO). Registering at a consulate isn't cheap, but I think it's worth it for the long term. You can also register at the Foreign Office in London by mail after arriving in UK, though usually it's quicker to do it in US.
Birth registration
Registering a birth


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

-chuckles @ self- I seriously did like 2 hours of searching and my husband found out what I'd been looking for in 10 minutes... Not sure if I'm insulted or in awe of his greatness... haha. 

Thanks for the advice joppa! I'm thinking the registering is a good idea as well. I 'LOVE' the fact you gave me links too.


----------



## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

hollylane said:


> Thank you both for this information, and sadly... one more question! Though I'm unsure if you'll be able to answer this or not....
> 
> Does he (our son) need to be registered as a British citizen before all of this happens as well? From the research I've been doing... I'm getting two different answers. (insert crossed eyed look here)
> 
> ...


If you are leaving the US to settle in Britain it would be inappropriate for the Consulate to register your son (i.e., keep his name on file as resident within their jurisdiction).

The UK is one of the many countries (NOT including the USA) that allow their citizens to travel to and from the UK on a foreign passport. You can get a sticker put in that (US) passport attesting to his right of abode in the UK. (The sticker does not mention citizenship so as not to cause problems for dual nationals of countries that forbid dual nationality.) Whether you get a UK passport is optional: my 27-y.o. daughter has never done so (she travels to and from the UK on her Swiss passport, which exempts her from control anyway, although she's lived in the UK most of her life).

That said, a passport is the best proof of nationality, generally binding on other countries' authorities. (But not on British ones: I once saw a British consul withdraw the passport of a woman he discovered had been born in the UK to a Swedish diplomatic family. He checked with Whitehall first.)


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Punktlich2 said:


> If you are leaving the US to settle in Britain it would be inappropriate for the Consulate to register your son (i.e., keep his name on file as resident within their jurisdiction).
> 
> The UK is one of the many countries (NOT including the USA) that allow their citizens to travel to and from the UK on a foreign passport. You can get a sticker put in that (US) passport attesting to his right of abode in the UK. (The sticker does not mention citizenship so as not to cause problems for dual nationals of countries that forbid dual nationality.) Whether you get a UK passport is optional: my 27-y.o. daughter has never done so (she travels to and from the UK on her Swiss passport, which exempts her from control anyway, although she's lived in the UK most of her life).
> 
> That said, a passport is the best proof of nationality, generally binding on other countries' authorities. (But not on British ones: I once saw a British consul withdraw the passport of a woman he discovered had been born in the UK to a Swedish diplomatic family. He checked with Whitehall first.)




That's what me and husband have decided to do (not register) simply for the sake of ... I've got enough to do here as it is to add more to my list. I'm just thankful my husband is going to do that end of things cause my brain is fried at this point with all this other paperwork and getting the US passport.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hollylane said:


> That's what me and husband have decided to do (not register) simply for the sake of ... I've got enough to do here as it is to add more to my list. I'm just thankful my husband is going to do that end of things cause my brain is fried at this point with all this other paperwork and getting the US passport.


As I've said, registering his birth can be done at the Foreign Office in London by post after arrival, but do get his British passport through UK consulate. Despite what punktlich says, having a British passport for the baby will make things a lot easier when you arrive in UK.


----------



## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Joppa said:


> As I've said, registering his birth can be done at the Foreign Office in London by post after arrival, but do get his British passport through UK consulate. Despite what punktlich says, having a British passport for the baby will make things a lot easier when you arrive in UK.


*Please do not misrepresent what I said: I said the opposite of what you claim.* A passport is the best proof of nationality. However, the baby will not be excluded from Britain, does not need (and anyway as a citizen is ineligible for) an expensive UK visa and (so long as other proof of UK nationality is provided) will not have a time limit on his stay. The time limit would have to be removed by the Home Office and that's a nuisance. Failure to remove the time limit won't affect rights but will hinder proof of entitlement to those rights (health care, schooling...)

The point of my post was to say that one does not register as a UK citizen residing abroad if one intends to move right away to Britain: that just adds to clutter in the consular files. Registering the birth of a UK citizen abroad (and the reciprocal, registering the birth of a US citizen abroad) with a consulate (quite a different thing from registering foreign residence) has the following advantage: the consulate is charged with knowing the formalities and the documents appropriate to the country where the baby was born (or the couple married, etc.) The Foreign Office and the Home Office are not. It is always more difficult to register a birth later: indeed registrations after the age of 5 years of US citizens born abroad always are referred to Washington because of the risk of fraud.

Getting a passport, on the other hand, is trivial.

That said, one either is or is not a citizen of the UK and/or the USA at birth. Nothing the parents do will change that, ever. (Well, I could conceive of one thing: taking up residence in a territory that subsequently becomes independent. Puerto Rico, say. Or Gibraltar. But even in those cases there would doubtless be a right of option. And denaturalization would probably only apply to persons born there as well as residing there at the time of independence. Some UK decolonization laws worked that way. The Philippines independence laws, beginning 1934, were a bit different and Filipinos in the USA got only green cards, not US citizenship. Reflecting the fact that not all US "nationals" (certain Asian & Pacific Islanders) or "protégés (think of American Indians prior to 1925) were/are citizens. (And, further, there's a difference between "statutory" and "constitutional, 14th Amendment" citizens. Statutory citizens comprise persons born abroad and in outlying territories.))


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Well we're getting his passport before (hopefully) but as for registering that's what I ment in terms of not doing, we'll probably do it in the UK but as for now, I can't really travel to Denver (bout 70 miles away) without a lot of planning and prep work with a child (if it resulted in me having to go to the consulate that is) 

I would rather have things easier when getting through the airport immigration simply for the fact my noodle will already be fried from being on a long flight.

I've just got to get his (son) photos taken and notarized to be a true copy/picture of em and send em to husband and he's gonna take care of that.


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Random question.....

If our son has his UK passport does he still need his US passport to get into the UK? We're wondering cause if we don't need to get 2 right away (one us, one uk) that we won't.


----------



## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

hollylane said:


> Random question.....
> 
> If our son has his UK passport does he still need his US passport to get into the UK? We're wondering cause if we don't need to get 2 right away (one us, one uk) that we won't.


No. A US passport is only required for traveling to (and in principle, according to US law from,) the USA. 

If you/he leaves the USA with a British passport the airline may ask why there is no I-194 or similar form attached. They are supposed to collect proofs of departure for ICE. It is invariably enough to say that the passportholder also has a US passport or a green card. The airline employee will not ask to see it.

The UK (or other foreign) authorities will only want/need to see the UK passport. That is true also of Canadian border police, who will be satisfied/amused with a third-country passport, even at the land border.


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Punktlich2 said:


> No. A US passport is only required for traveling to (and in principle, according to US law from,) the USA.
> 
> If you/he leaves the USA with a British passport the airline may ask why there is no I-194 or similar form attached. They are supposed to collect proofs of departure for ICE. It is invariably enough to say that the passportholder also has a US passport or a green card. The airline employee will not ask to see it.
> 
> The UK (or other foreign) authorities will only want/need to see the UK passport. That is true also of Canadian border police, who will be satisfied/amused with a third-country passport, even at the land border.



We decided to get the US passport for the sake I've been reading it can be a pain in the backside to get one in the UK, we're going to set up an appointment to get his UK passport when me and son travel there. I understand it will be a bit of a headache for me at the airport with him not having his UK passport yet, but right now with everything going on it will simply be easier in the long run to do it in the UK for us. But having an appointment set up before I travel there will be good as well.


Anyways thanks everyone for the advice/information. You've all been very helpful!!


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hollylane said:


> We decided to get the US passport for the sake I've been reading it can be a pain in the backside to get one in the UK, we're going to set up an appointment to get his UK passport when me and son travel there. I understand it will be a bit of a headache for me at the airport with him not having his UK passport yet, but right now with everything going on it will simply be easier in the long run to do it in the UK for us. But having an appointment set up before I travel there will be good as well.
> 
> 
> Anyways thanks everyone for the advice/information. You've all been very helpful!!


If you are going to do that, be prepared to answer a series of questions about your son when you arrive in UK. If you say that he is a dual US-UK national by virtue of his parentage, they may want to see a proof of that, so carry, as well as his US passport, his birth certificate naming his parents, and your husband's birth certificate or a photocopy of the bio page of his passport. Once they are satisfied about your son's immigration status, he will probably be admitted as a visitor for 6 months. Then you can apply for his British passport to the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) within 6 months. BTW he will be a British citizen by descent. Normally he won't be able to transmit his nationality to his children born outside UK, but if he lives in UK for at least three years, he will be able to hand down his citizenship.


----------



## hollylane (Dec 9, 2010)

Joppa said:


> If you are going to do that, be prepared to answer a series of questions about your son when you arrive in UK. If you say that he is a dual US-UK national by virtue of his parentage, they may want to see a proof of that, so carry, as well as his US passport, his birth certificate naming his parents, and your husband's birth certificate or a photocopy of the bio page of his passport. Once they are satisfied about your son's immigration status, he will probably be admitted as a visitor for 6 months. Then you can apply for his British passport to the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) within 6 months. BTW he will be a British citizen by descent. Normally he won't be able to transmit his nationality to his children born outside UK, but if he lives in UK for at least three years, he will be able to hand down his citizenship.




:glee: Yah I figured I would be asked TONS of questions, so I intend to have all the paperwork on him with me in the diaper bag right down to the marriage license/certificate. Thanks for the info!!


----------

