# Moving to Singapore



## clarence1977

Hi I will be moving to Singapore shortly and need some help to understand cost of living, housing, travelling, etc. We are a small Indian family and have a child of 1 year 10 months. I would like to know the cost of living for a family of 3 including a child. My child is still small and will start play school next year. However my wife also intends to work as and will start to look out for work once we are in Singapore. The company will take care of visa for family and I have been offered 5500 SGD. 

I would look out for a 1 bhk. Not sure what the rents will be there. Food most likely will be cooked at home. What are the cost for utilities like water, electricity, gas, groceries. 

Does transportation cost a lot. I will be joining in as a Sales Manager, could you advise what are the salaries offered in Sales position.

Thanks and look forward to all your views.


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## alatal

clarence1977 said:


> Hi I will be moving to Singapore shortly and need some help to understand cost of living, housing, travelling, etc. We are a small Indian family and have a child of 1 year 10 months. I would like to know the cost of living for a family of 3 including a child. My child is still small and will start play school next year. However my wife also intends to work as and will start to look out for work once we are in Singapore. The company will take care of visa for family and I have been offered 5500 SGD.
> 
> I would look out for a 1 bhk. Not sure what the rents will be there. Food most likely will be cooked at home. What are the cost for utilities like water, electricity, gas, groceries.
> 
> Does transportation cost a lot. I will be joining in as a Sales Manager, could you advise what are the salaries offered in Sales position.
> 
> Thanks and look forward to all your views.


Hi there,

I can't help with much but just wanted to share that I'm almost in the exact same boat moving from Dubai to Singapore in the next couple of months! Wish you the best of luck with your move, and perhaps we can touch base to compare notes about the move!
Take care


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## beppi

- You can find answers to most of your questions by searching this or similar forums on the Internet.
- For cost of life comparisons, try Cost of Living
- There are almost no 1bhk in Singapore and those few cost a lot. Better look for a two bedroom public housing (HDB) flat. Simple ones far from the city should be available for S$2000/month, but you better budget S$2500/month to have more choice.
- Basic cost of living (without luxuries) is about S$600/month per person, including your child because child items are not cheap. (Eating at home costs same or more than food stalls in a hawker centre!)
- Play school (whole day) will cost S$1000-1500/month (you won't get the 50% subsidy locals enjoy).
- It is difficult for foreigners to find jobs, so don't count on your wife finding one! She will also not be allowed to work on a standard dependency visa (as she will most likely get in the beginning).
- Having a car, maid, frequent trips home or major savings will not be possible on that kind of salary.


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## Japer

clarence1977 said:


> Hi I will be moving to Singapore shortly and need some help to understand cost of living, housing, travelling, etc. We are a small Indian family and have a child of 1 year 10 months. I would like to know the cost of living for a family of 3 including a child. My child is still small and will start play school next year. However my wife also intends to work as and will start to look out for work once we are in Singapore. The company will take care of visa for family and I have been offered 5500 SGD.
> 
> I would look out for a 1 bhk. Not sure what the rents will be there. Food most likely will be cooked at home. What are the cost for utilities like water, electricity, gas, groceries.
> 
> Does transportation cost a lot. I will be joining in as a Sales Manager, could you advise what are the salaries offered in Sales position.
> 
> Thanks and look forward to all your views.


Hi Clarence,

Frankly speaking, with that amount of salary, it would be better to look for a HDB flat which you should find no problems with, it can cost you from 1800 to 2500 for a 3 room flat to a 4 room flat in a relatively central area.

As for cost of utilities and groceries, it is really subjective as it really depends on your usage and consumption, but a relative figure would be around $600 but that is assuming it is just the bare minimum with not much usage of the air conditioning.

For transportation itself, are you looking at your own persoanl transport or you would not mind public transport, the most expensive train ride from 1 end of singapore would set you back about $3+ so you can do the maths. 

Regards!


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## simonsays

Japer said:


> Hi Clarence,
> 
> Frankly speaking, with that amount of salary, it would be better to look for a HDB flat which you should find no problems with, it can cost you from 1800 to 2500 for a 3 room flat to a 4 room flat in a relatively central area.



1,800 for a 3 room flat, centrally ? Where is it ? I would like to put a deposit NOW !!!!!

Nothing goes less than 2,200 or more and more now ..


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## Japer

ecureilx said:


> 1,800 for a 3 room flat, centrally ? Where is it ? I would like to put a deposit NOW !!!!!
> 
> Nothing goes less than 2,200 or more and more now ..


Not to sound rude or anything but i seen some in places like toa payoh.


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## simonsays

they advertise 1,800 and when you show interest price goes up .. no kidding

And Toa Payoh isn't central Per-se .. still ..


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## clarence1977

Thanks Japer, I would use public transport. I have a child also 1 year 10 months will there be a full day care center for children and what would the cost be. Do maids cost a lot. Are HDB's furnished.


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## beppi

clarence1977 said:


> Thanks Japer, I would use public transport. I have a child also 1 year 10 months will there be a full day care center for children and what would the cost be. Do maids cost a lot. Are HDB's furnished.


There are full daychild care centres all over Singapore. For a child below 2 years old, it will cost S$1200-1800/month.
Having a maid costs about S$1000/month (inkl. levy, insurance, etc.), but on top of that you need to provide accommodation (a room in your flat) and food.
Some HDB's come furnished, some not. Depends on the landlord. If it is furnished, don't expect anything nice or of good quality!


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## ToiHendricks

*Child Care vs Maid/Nanny*



beppi said:


> There are full daychild care centres all over Singapore. For a child below 2 years old, it will cost S$1200-1800/month.
> Having a maid costs about S$1000/month (inkl. levy, insurance, etc.), but on top of that you need to provide accommodation (a room in your flat) and food.
> Some HDB's come furnished, some not. Depends on the landlord. If it is furnished, don't expect anything nice or of good quality!


I would like to know what the laws are on being a Nanny/Maid since there are many laws to abide by in Singapore. Clarence1977 - Could you possibly negotiate housing accommodations with a Certified, Bonded, Experienced, Live in Nanny to reduce your living expenses as well as child care?


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## simonsays

For staying out .. not allowed. End of story

Not even with the agent who sourced the maid.

The maids are only allowed to stay with their employer, perform duties for their employer only... 

the only other place that houses maids are the shelter for maids in distress

some maids are some sort of basic nursing courses, and they don't come cheap .. like the loads I see with the old folks home, or personal care assisstants for disabled


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## Japer

ecureilx said:


> they advertise 1,800 and when you show interest price goes up .. no kidding
> 
> And Toa Payoh isn't central Per-se .. still ..


Hi Ecurelix, I meant, it's really subjective but I will take note of that next time, thank you for the knowledge.


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## simonsays

Japer said:


> Hi Ecurelix, I meant, it's really subjective but I will take note of that next time, thank you for the knowledge.


No worries  

Currently the rental market is heating up due to added rental restrictions .. don't know much of your pay you could split for rental .. 50 % ? or more ??  

Scary ..


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## Japer

ecureilx said:


> No worries
> 
> Currently the rental market is heating up due to added rental restrictions .. don't know much of your pay you could split for rental .. 50 % ? or more ??
> 
> Scary ..


From my understanding from friends in the industry, it really depends on how much you want to earn and it's all negotiable.


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## simonsays

Japer, I meant, with the rising rental .. it is a tough thing to decide .. as to at what level you say it is not worth while to work here ..

Of course, those on Expat packages need not worry though ..


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## wesmant

Hi TS,

will try to put in some info, might be usefull for u.

1. apartment

- location. first of all, you might want to locate your workplace. Singapore is quite small, but housing is everywhere, you may want to pick a location nearer to your workplace. there's no point getting your house in central but you are working in Woodland area, or Tuas Area, or Changi Area. So, please get your work location, and find a flat nearer to workplace. getting one nearer your workplace will reduce travel time too, beside its cost 

- rental. I agree with some reply, for a small family of 3, you may consider getting a 3 rooms HDB rental (meaning: 2 bedroom). as for the price, depends on location.

2. living cost

- utilities: get ready abt $200 p.m. all in (gas, electricity, conservancy)

- food: well, $600 quite reasonable for basic. you may consider setting aside a little more since you have baby (milk, etc)

-. if your wife is not working, I don't see the need to put in day care. once your kids hit 2.5 y.o, you can send to some Pre-Nursery level playgroup. won't cost you more than $200 p.m. else, if you insist on daycare, all other had given input on the price.

-. maid: you can get from your hometown, or get here(agency) if needed. monthly cost won't be less than 1k, on top of all others.

3. transportation etc. you know it already.

good luck


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## beppi

ToiHendricks said:


> I would like to know what the laws are on being a Nanny/Maid since there are many laws to abide by in Singapore. Clarence1977 - Could you possibly negotiate housing accommodations with a Certified, Bonded, Experienced, Live in Nanny to reduce your living expenses as well as child care?


- Only citizens and permanent residents can be part-time live-out maids (thus this category is almost non-existent - and expensive!). In order to become a (full-time, live-in) maid as a foreigner, you have to be from one of a handful of approved countries (Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, as far as I can remember), have basic education (secondary), pass a health test and get a work permit (WP). There are some other preconditions, e.g. about wages, which are country-specific.
In most cases, you'll engage an agency to place you and prepare the paperwork. The agency will charge your first six months salary as fee.
Once in Singapore, you are not allowed to work (or even help out) any other place than your employers household, where you also must live. You are not allowed to become pregnant (you'll be deported immediately) and you cannot marry a Singaporean without approval by MoM (which is difficult to get).
You are entitled to one day off per week, but this is not enforced (many get a day per month only).
Your salary will be low. Apart from basic personal needs (clothes, toiletries, mobile phone), you'll be able to afford a weekly (on your day off) trip to your ethnic enclave, have a meal with your friends and watch a cinema movie there. Since you want to save and send money home to your family, you will not do this every week, though. 
While you may have a two year contract, your employer can dismiss you at any time for almost any reason (incl. not following his/her orders, or needing medical treatment). In that case you have to leave Singapore immediately.
You'll have (basic) health insurance, paid for by your employer, but if you need treatment that is not covered, you are at your employer's mercy.
If you are deported, you will never be allowed to work in Singapore again.

- Arrangements where accommodation includes maid services are either illegal (in case of foreign maid) or unaffordable (local maid).


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## DrPaulMasters

clarence1977 said:


> my wife also intends to work as and will start to look out for work once we are in Singapore.


If your wife is on a dependants pass, she will need permission from MOM to look for work. Once she has that, there are lots of employers who want to employ DP's as there are no minimum wage requirements. She might be better off converting the DP into an EP, if she has the qualifications (degree/experience) to do so.

Also, I have heard of DP's being granted for spouses, but rejected for their children. Before you sign up to any tenancy agreements, make sure that everyone has got their visas.


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## philgallo

Maids costs depend... ours only costs $140 per month! This is if you dont do it through an agency... This is a handy guide for cost of living in Singapore...


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## HappyLiving

Tampines is a good area to live in.


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## asublimepizza

Wow. This is a tough one. Food costs of equal quality and portion have risen and exceeded UK, even after conversion rates, just as an idea of food, and nutritionally much oil and msg, carbs and sugar.

Focus on making value judgements on food, education, transportation and health care. The slow killer will be rental which you will want to keep looking. In my opinion, most government housing let out can be in much better condition. Be aware of location, ventilation, heat build up akin to skin building syndrome partly due to thin walls of council/HDB flats, that take up more air conditioning, hence electrical costs.

Rental is a slow beast, but you can vary transport times within reason as most locals have a peculiar fashion of communal movement, such as meal times and going home at the same time.

I know sporty people who routinely ship in health food as do chefs who bring their own equipment from abroad as the local shops consider many items a speciality. If you have very specific tools or dietary requirement, make sure you can get them flown in or brought in within reason. 

- Buy what you have to in Singapore only and the odd luxury you cannot get back home.
- Keep looking for rental places affordable to you.
- Make sure your rented place is habitable, as there are many through agents who regard certain amenities as a luxury, such as cooking. Ironically, if you are rich enough, you will not want to live in a council/HDB flat, and probably not need to cook in any case or be importing some of your food.
- Vary your travelling times as locals tend to be very rigid with their way of what can and cannot be done, such as travel times, such as all leaving for meal times at the same time despite flexible lunch hours. Naturally, you will have to fit in your customers meeting times around your own.
- Maid is sufficiently cheap but Singapore has been addicted to cheap labour in a misguided way of trying to out do China. In times of profit, it does not invest but continues to use cheap labour, as a general operations rule, amongst all the jargon out there of efficiency, effectiveness and so on. However, as most cheap maids are not trained, do not expect Canada style of maids who can be relatively highly trained that the Singapore local typically considers as expensive as they like their cake without having to pay for it. Trained maids in pediatrician or similar will cost as in any other good profession, as Singapore does not subsidize employers unlike France or have a certain similar cost reduction policy of a stated duration.
- Pass for working, enquire early and keep looking. Best places are to be a teacher, executive, do that by networking with Indian School, businesses, but have an eye on all of them. Retail and kitchen jobs are still looked down upon and not very professional, unless you are working for an establishment run for example, by an enlightened employer, usually not a person of the region, as a general rule, especially like any country, Singapore can be rather secular in its outlook in a touristy fashion, and by those who control the reigns over money and influence, unless they are truly travelled.

Best of Luck. It is possible to find something, initially to be close to your work, once you are familiar with your job movements, you might decide to station on other parts of the island or even neighbouring country or have a smaller but habitable space. Unless you go private, do enquire any way, as they may have a larger option and different group of social grouping, for which the old class move for that precise reason, unlike the nouveau riche who move to be seen.


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## beppi

philgallo said:


> Maids costs depend... ours only costs $140 per month.


The recommended minimum monthly salary for a maid is S$450. What you are doing is INHUMANE!
You also have to pay the maid levy (a kind of tax for having a maid) of S$265 to the government, health insurance, and provide a room and food. Altogether having a maid costs above S$1000/month.


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## wesmant

beppi said:


> The recommended minimum monthly salary for a maid is S$450. What you are doing is INHUMANE!
> You also have to pay the maid levy (a kind of tax for having a maid) of S$265 to the government, health insurance, and provide a room and food. Altogether having a maid costs above S$1000/month.


At first, i was about the react the same way, but on second tought, i think he refer to part time maid? Visit once a week, at $35 each visit?


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## simonsays

philgallo said:


> Maids costs depend... ours only costs $140 per month! This is if you dont do it through an agency... This is a handy guide for cost of living in Singapore...


you mean you only pay your maid 140 $ ??


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## beppi

The common rate for part-time maids is S$15/hour, so he/she won't get much for S$140/month.


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## HappyLiving

cost of maid is pretty steep here. it's now about $500/ month for their salary. This does not include govt levy, agency fee, insurance.


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## beppi

Steep?!?
Would YOU work full-time for S$500/month?
Or try to hire a maid in any developed country - you'd have to payS$3000/month or more in Europe.
Singapore is still cheap for unskilled labour!


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## HappyLiving

Most families with children need maids in spore because of the fast-paced, hectic lifestyle in spore. parents work late and children need someone to cook and care for them. plus, parents need the time to coach their kids as the education system in spore is very tough and demanding.

in europe, only the very rich can afford maids. in spore, it has become a necessity. also, in european countries, the pace of life is much slower and parents do not need to coach their children that much or ferry them for enrichment classes.

it's a different lifestyle we are talking here. if a necessity cost us $3k per month, the people in the country will be up in arms against the govt.


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## simonsays

beppi said:


> Steep?!?
> Would YOU work full-time for S$500/month?
> Or try to hire a maid in any developed country - you'd have to payS$3000/month or more in Europe.
> Singapore is still cheap for unskilled labour!


not to wade in .. but .. for a resident here, a total of about 1000 S$ is a luxury, especially if they are not on expat terms .. 

Then again, 500 $ in the 'source' countries for maids - it is more than a white collar job worker's salary .. 

Well, if anybody could afford it, of course I would expect them to pay more  

Like somebody 'willing buyer, willing seller'


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## HappyLiving

yes, definitely, if you can afford it, go for it! it also comes with their own unreasonable demands too! this is a packaged deal!


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## BBCWatcher

S$140/month would be realistic for fortnightly housekeeping service.

I disagree that a live-in housekeeper is uniquely necessary in Singapore due to the "hectic" lifestyle. Compared to, say, the U.S. or Japan? No. Live-in maids are extremely rare in those countries, and lifestyles are at least as hectic. Live-in maids are more common in Singapore simply because live-in maids are more _affordable_ to hire in Singapore, not because the lifestyle is materially different. If anything there are household conveniences in Singapore that are less common elsewhere, though it's interesting that dishwashing appliances are very uncommon in Singapore precisely because live-in maids are much more common.


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## asublimepizza

Precisely of the examples given previously, perfectly illustrates the addiction to cheap labour, much less know about a living wage. Many expect their cake and eat it. $500. 

Try living off that in the present environment. Perhaps you might want to try it yourself and see if your health deteriorates with hard labour and poor nutrition, which local food generally comprises of sugar, ie. carbohydrates..into sugar, with lashings of msg and oil.

It is precisely because the Labour Union in Singapore is non-existent in legal substance but legal form, that such business practices continue. 

There are the Singaporeans who go abroad expecting the same, akin to a business venture in Australia who wanted a Manager's work done for a pittance, who got into a dispute several years back.

This shows much more of the Singapore local general thinking to the expats here who obviously have not mixed at a social level, only the superficial business parties of how hunky dory everything is.

Ironically, it shows both sides of the divide, of being in Singapore without being in Singapore. ( I hear rationalizations in some cog wheels moving already..generalisations, etc. )


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## BBCWatcher

asublimepizza said:


> Perhaps you might want to try it yourself and see if your health deteriorates with hard labour and poor nutrition, which local food generally comprises of sugar, ie. carbohydrates..into sugar, with lashings of msg and oil.


I'd say that's also unfair. Live-in maids must receive room and board, they're typically preparing meals for the household, and they're generally eating as well as the rest of the household. For most the diet is a big improvement.

Moreover, Singaporeans live a _long_ time on average, so whatever they're eating it's not killing them prematurely. I find it comparatively easy to eat healthy food in Singapore in every price range.


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## wesmant

asublimepizza said:


> Ironically, it shows both sides of the divide, of being in Singapore without being in Singapore. ( I hear rationalizations in some cog wheels moving already..generalisations, etc. )


isn't this issue is being discussed everyone by almost every singaporean nowadays? hehehe.

Expats should try to live local style to understand how living in Singapore is.


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## HappyLiving

Yes, i totally agree. live like a local, earn like a local, have children in local Primary Schools and then we talk.


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## simonsays

wesmant said:


> isn't this issue is being discussed everyone by almost every singaporean nowadays? hehehe.
> 
> Expats should try to live local style to understand how living in Singapore is.


I got the impression asublimepizza is spinning it on Singaporeans for NOT PAYING Enough .. Pardon me, if my intelligence is not great ..


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## HappyLiving

I have the same impression too. but i don't blame them. one needs to live in the suburbs and live like a local to truely understand what a singaporean's struggles and average lifestyle is.


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## wesmant

Happyliving and Ecureilx:


That's a sad but true things about all these. That's why expat should discuss what is things abt expat, not commenting on local things


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## HappyLiving

wesmant, thanks. agree too!


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