# finca alterations



## georgina13 (Nov 23, 2011)

I have lived in my finca on the campo for 8 years. We bought it cash and the solicitor who did the transfer told us that we could not extend the property and the house was the largest allowed on the 1000 sq metres we had. We built a pool with all the necessary permission from the town hall. We also changed a trastero in the house into a cloakroon (toilet and washbasin. We also added a wooden structure over the back door,just roof no doors or windows to provide an outdoor eating area. 
We have rcently had an estate agent to value the property with a view to selling. He has told us that the house has no certificate of habitation and we would be unlikely to get one in view of the alterations and the escitura is now incorrect. The changes we made were done 7 years ago.We cannot afford the large fees we would have to pay to get this changed,we are pensioners 80 and 75 years old and did not realise we were doing anything wrong. Any advice would be welcome


----------



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

First of all I wouldn't believe anything an estate agent told you. Your first cll should be with a properly qualified solicitor to see what your options really are. The EA was correct with regard to the escitura being incorrect, but I believe there are rules regarding the time an alteration has been in effect. Others on here will no doubt be able to advise on that but go see a solicitor!!


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I can't even see where the problem would be! The pool is legal & can be added to the escritura without any problems. No one adds it until they sell normally. The old trastero , well normally nothing internally would be identified on an old property anyway , so changing that wouldn't be a problem. The only incorrect thing is the outdoor roofed eating area & that can be easily sorted by taking it down if it's too much trouble to legalise.


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

As a fellow owner of a restored Finca in Alicante, the only advice I would offer would be to speak directly with the architect at your local Town Hall. Regulations can and do vary from Town to Town, so any advice would be subject to where you live exactly.


----------



## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

The main problem with selling a property where the escritura does not match the layout of the property is that a prospective purchaser will not be able to obtain a mortgage which severely limits the potential market and will attract cash sellers who are willing to 'take it off your hands' at a bargain basement price.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It looks like the problem isn't that the escritura doesn't match the layout, which is relatively simple to fix, but that there is no Certificate of Habitation. However my understanding is that these are only necessary on newly built properties or renovated ruins?


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> It looks like the problem isn't that the escritura doesn't match the layout, which is relatively simple to fix, but that there is no Certificate of Habitation. However my understanding is that these are only necessary on newly built properties or renovated ruins?


That's the way I read it too. I've always been told that it is very difficult to get extensions and alterations legally done to fincas, so I was surprised when the OP mentioned they had a pool legally done .... however if that was 8 years ago then it wasn't unusual for Town Halls to allow "illegal" things to be done

I'd say in this day and age the main problem will be in selling such a property at a reasonable price ads people are now so suspicious of anything that is slightly out of order. As you say, a mortgage is unlikely without proper documentation. A villa down the road failed on a mortgage because the parcela had been split incorrectly.

Having said all that ...... this is Spain and anything is possible


----------



## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> ... but that there is no Certificate of Habitation. However my understanding is that these are only necessary on newly built properties or renovated ruins?


This is not so. Certificates of first occupation are being requested on _all_ resales regardless of how old the property is or how many times it has changed hands as well as a certificate of an absence of impending legal action against the property.

A certificate of first occupation is also required in order to be able to change the name of the contract holder of the electricity supply and sometime the water supply as well.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Beachcomber said:


> This is not so. Certificates of first occupation are being requested on _all_ resales regardless of how old the property is or how many times it has changed hands as well as a certificate of an absence of impending legal action against the property.
> 
> A certificate of first occupation is also required in order to be able to change the name of the contract holder of the electricity supply and sometime the water supply as well.


I think this may be an 'over generalization'.

Many houses in the campo simply don't have certificates and yet are still being bought (all be it slowly).

You can certainly change suppliers without a certificate - I have several properties and not been required to produce one on any of them.


I suspect, as always in Spain, it simply depends where you are buying as to what the rules are.


----------



## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

There is nothing to prevent someone purchasing a property that does not have a certificate of first occupation but people are increasingly reluctant to do so because of possible subsequent problems. Neither are certificates of an absence of pending proceedings required in order to register the property once the escritura has been completed but it does not mean that there are none in existence which may come to light at a later date especially if the property has been built in Andalucía since 2002.

Regulations regarding the electricity supply have changed several times over the past few years and, unless it is a recent installation, an upgrade and new bulletins will be required, together with a certificate of first occupation, in order to change the electricity contract into the name of the new owner. I don't know about changing suppliers and I did not mention this in my previous post.

I think anyone considering the purchase of a property without these certificates would be very unwise to proceed unless they are doing so with full knowledge of the possible consequences.


----------



## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi, the OP is in the Communidad de Valencia where there are two certificates of habitation; of First Occupation for property under 10 years old and of Second occupation over 10 years old. I don´t whether you need to have one to sell a property but I had to get one recently in order change the name on my leccy bill and have the supply upgraded. But this was only because the original contract was very old. If the finca is over 10 years old I´d suggest that the OP look at obtaining a Licence of Second Occupation from the town hall.


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

It would be a mistake to try and apply a 'general rule' here, as issues like this are almost always decided on a local level.
For example, my 200 year old Finca does not have a cedula. The reasons given for it being declined would not apply in the next village up the valley.
Talk to your local Mayor and local Architect and local Abogado. Why should you care what the law is or isn't in areas of the region that don't apply to you ?


----------



## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

A property in Vera (Almería) was granted a building licence and a certificate of first occupation on a local level but it was subsequently demolished on the orders of the regional government.

The head-in-the-sand attitude may work for a while but it does no good in the end. Ask the non-resident property owners who have been scoffing at the idea of submitting non-resident tax returns and who are now receiving letters from AEAT wanting to know why they have not been doing so.


----------



## Mexberry (Dec 19, 2011)

We are considering buying property in rural Spain. What I find disturbing is the seemingly rag tag manner in which the rules are interpreted. Is there a list of lawyers that practice in a particular area ? The OP did have a solicitor, who seemingly did not fully advise and now the owners have a problem.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mexberry said:


> We are considering buying property in rural Spain. What I find disturbing is the seemingly rag tag manner in which the rules are interpreted. Is there a list of lawyers that practice in a particular area ? The OP did have a solicitor, who seemingly did not fully advise and now the owners have a problem.


welcome to Spain !!!

each autonomous comunidad has slightly different rules, so you would need a lawyer local to the area

there have been a lot of problems with illegal builds - just google 'property scandal spain' or 'illegal builds spain´and have a good read

this is possibly the most famous - or infamous - case Helen Prior - A Capricorn against the Spanish legal system


----------



## donz (May 5, 2010)

the other issue you find here with lawyers is it is not the same as UK (not that you should expect it to be but you would expect certain things covered....) you must ensure you ask if everything has been covered - as an example I had presumed a survey would have been completed to ensure my house wasn't going to fall off the side of the mountain or fall down around my ears but no this is not normal here but on the other side of the coin it is normal for them to transfer all the utilities into your name...


----------



## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

When something goes wrong the standard excuse from a Spanish lawyer is 'You didn't ask us to check that'. So how are you supposed to know what questions to ask unless you research the whole property purchasing procedure from scratch? If you do that you may as well dispense with the services as a lawyer and do it all yourself just as a Spaniard would in a similar similar situation.


----------



## donz (May 5, 2010)

not to say I have had anything go wrong.....just was prudent I guess in my buying! I was close to completion when I asked for the results of the survey.....'what survey' was the response?!? Hence I then got one done..


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

donz said:


> the other issue you find here with lawyers is it is not the same as UK (not that you should expect it to be but you would expect certain things covered....) you must ensure you ask if everything has been covered - as an example I had presumed a survey would have been completed to ensure my house wasn't going to fall off the side of the mountain or fall down around my ears but no this is not normal here but on the other side of the coin it is normal for them to transfer all the utilities into your name...


I'm not sure I agree with this. 

We bought a 600 year old bakery. Tried to get the electricity into our name but found that the name had not been changed for 38 years (or so) which amounted to 3 or 4 sales over those years. We were told that we had to have the signature of the previous owner who had signed the original (electricity) contract just to have the meter removed. When we mentioned that we did not know who the person was, where he lived or even if he was still alive, we were told that those were the rules and that until we had his signature we could do nothing.

On the other hand, we could put the contract into our name but would need a boletin - problem was that there was no cabling in the building, just the meter. It would have cost loads to get the boletin, just so I could then get the meter taken out.

... ONLY IN SPAIN:confused2::confused2:


----------



## donz (May 5, 2010)

hmmm yes know what you mean. I think a lot of it now is money making - a friend just bought a restaurant and have been told they cannot change the name for the electrivity unless they have the place rewired!!


----------

