# Official survey all expats in Mexico



## teadust (Aug 4, 2007)

Hi all-

I've posted this info on a few expat message boards and I hope it's useful to folks here. Was reading the CancunCare message board yesterday and saw this mentioned:

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"Americans and Canadians living here, here's your chance to gripe ;-) I received this info in a newsletter from the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City.

"The Mexican Government is conducting a perception survey among citizens of the United States and Canada living in Mexico in order to identify the main difficulties they faced during the process of migrating to Mexico and once they have settled in the country. Its purpose is to collect information, analyze the main difficulties, and propose policy changes to facilitate migration to Mexico."

SURVEY: Main difficulties faced by US and Canadian citizens when migrating to Mexico

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(Please note that the URL goes to a domain name "surveymonkey" and while that seems wonky, it is a legitimate online survey company who has done these for clients like Toyota, Wells Fargo Bank, etc. Most likely the Mexican government doesn't have its web servers configured to run a survey, and hired a specialty company to host it and collect the results for them.)

It's anonymous, you are NOT asked to enter any personal identification info.

The questions include rating the difficulty of things, such as opening a local bank account, or getting a fixed phone line, or finding acceptable health care providers, or renting a home. It also asks about difficulties expats in Mexico might have with agencies in the U.S. and Canada once they are in Mexico, i.e. getting reimbursed from Medicare, or getting Social Security benefits, etc.

There are also areas you can write in your own comments and suggestions.

I think this is a pretty cool effort on the part of Mexico to query resident expats on their opinions and experiences in moving to and residing in Mexico. Hopefully the feedback they get will enlighten them on where they might improve things related to expat immigration and long-term residency.


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## Just Visiting (Feb 28, 2008)

I have no idea of the realities in Mexico, however it has a horrible and strong rep for corruption and usually this is targeted to the police. It is also know to be a people ripe with violence and suffering with a narco-insurgency. Why move to a place that can't keep locals thugs from owning armies, let alone in check?

Work on this and I bet you people will flock to Mexico.


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## Rodrigo84 (Mar 5, 2008)

My cousin is an expat living down here (I expect him to join the forum shortly) and though Mexico has its issues, I always tell fellow Mexicans to treat all foreigners with respect. Reason being that it is common human courtesy and also we depend on their tourism and business for our economy. My cousin related a story to me about how one person had a very bad time with a police officer locally here in D.F., and decided to close his business, firing 100 employees in the process and let the mayor know. The person did nothing wrong, but simply was targeted for a bribe because of his foreign plates.

I think this survey is important so that my country can improve itself.


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## teadust (Aug 4, 2007)

The Guadalajara Reporter wrote a follow-up article about the survey:

Guadalajara Reporter

Mexico to back expats’ Medicare offensive
Written by Megan Smith
Saturday, 24 May 2008

After surveying some 2,250 U.S. and Canadian expatriates living in Mexico, officials in the Ministry of Finance (Hacienda) believe there is sufficient interest to push for the extension of U.S. government healthcare coverage to foreign residents.

Access to quality healthcare was the primary concern for U.S. citizens who responded to an online survey measuring difficulties experienced by expats, conducted by Hacienda’s Department of Investor Relations earlier this spring.

Administrator Rodrigo Garcia Verdu said the overwhelming response to the survey has given his office impetus to support U.S. citizen efforts petitioning legislators to extend benefits abroad.

“Essentially our interest is that it is economically beneficial for both our nations. Our projections show that more and more retirees will be moving to Mexico. If they can obtain healthcare coverage here, that makes Mexico more attractive to investment and creates jobs for Mexico and the costs of medical services received in Mexico will be less,” said Garcia.

Garcia said his office supports the launch of a “Demonstration Project” or “Collaborative Research Project” under a Social Security Act proviso authorizing experimental cost-saving projects.

“This summer we will likely launch a signature campaign of foreign residents interested in receiving Medicare benefits while in Mexico,” he said.

Eighty percent of survey respondents were U.S. citizens while 14 percent were Canadians and six percent were dual citizens. Men were more represented than women, 58 to 42 percent.

“We believe we had a very good response,” said Garcia, adding that the multiple-choice survey is still up on his office’s website (SHCP - Secretaría de Hacienda y Crédito Público, select “Relaciones con Inversionistas” then click on “Survey of US and Canadian Citizens Living in Mexico”) and he welcomes expats to continue contributing despite closure of the formal study.

Though data gleaned from the survey’s responses has yet to be formally released, Garcia said the profile of an average survey respondent was: someone who has lived in Mexico five years, is living with their partner or spouse, lives in Mexico year round, returns to their country of origin once a year, is not fluent in Spanish, has medical insurance in their home country and pays out of pocket for medical services in Mexico.

Most respondents said the quality of healthcare received in Mexico was comparable to their home countries, Garcia added.

Besides concern about healthcare coverage, Garcia said many respondents were dissatisfied with the difficulty and expense of immigration services, such as obtaining a work or resident visa.

“Many people complained that they were left in limbo while their immigration applications were in process, unable to obtain banking services or rent a house or get car insurance,” reported Garcia.

Hacienda is currently determining how best to distribute the results of the survey to other governmental agencies, such as Migration (INM), that could take the information under advisement as they review policy.

“It’s a bit delicate politically,” Garcia cautioned. “Some agencies aren’t happy that we asked the questions that we did and they certainly aren’t interested in hearing how people responded.”


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Since Medicare only has enough money to cover expats in the US until 2013, I don't think this has any chance of happening. I can't imagine them managing very well, either.


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## teadust (Aug 4, 2007)

synthia said:


> Since Medicare only has enough money to cover expats in the US until 2013, I don't think this has any chance of happening. I can't imagine them managing very well, either.


If Medicare only has enough money to cover citizens in the US through 2013, the U.S. hasn't managed very well, either... 

There already are large private insurance companies in the U.S. now (Blue Cross Shield of South Carolina, Health Net, Aetna Inc.) who send their policy holders to Mexico for certain medical procedures - because it's quality health care and it saves money for both the companies and the patients. 

Mexico Gets Medical Tourists as Health Net Sends U.S. Patients 

This trend's going to increase; Medicare might as well consider it, IMHO.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

dental tourism has already been around a long time. a friend of mine just went back to canada after he spent 5 weeks here in 2 trips 3 months apart.
his dental cost here in chapala was $3100 cdn for:26 crowns,4 tooth removable bridge,3 root canals,3 extractions and the various temps require until the permanents were ready. his air fare and other expenses were another $2000 cdn and of course he had a 5 week vacation as well.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

That's every tooth in his mouth. Not only do I wonder what he's been up to all these years .... but I can't imagine that being much of a vacation.

We have a dentist here that does post implants for full or partial bridges. He also teaches the process in Guad


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

There is a big difference between sending people who are already covered to another country for medical care, and adding coverage for people who don't have it.

And no, we haven't managed any of this very well at all.


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## mexicachica (Oct 13, 2008)

Quoted from post #4, above:

“It’s a bit delicate politically,” Garcia cautioned. “Some agencies aren’t happy that we asked the questions that we did and they certainly aren’t interested in hearing how people responded.”



This last paragraph of the report tells me NOTHING is going to get done. The results will just be another paper for a bureaucrat to push.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

Just Visiting said:


> I have no idea of the realities in Mexico, however it has a horrible and strong rep for corruption and usually this is targeted to the police. It is also know to be a people ripe with violence and suffering with a narco-insurgency. Why move to a place that can't keep locals thugs from owning armies, let alone in check?
> 
> Work on this and I bet you people will flock to Mexico.


Your first clause is the most correct. Those of us who spend a lot of time in Mexico do not feel affected by the things you mention. That is because we are not affected by the things you mention.

There are also people still telling us smog in Mexico City is terrible and growing constantly worse, so tourists come back totally amazed how clean the air was. When I am in the States, I am along the border in the RGV, and it is far more dangerous here than in rural Puebla.

As far as police, I am far more afraid of US cops. I am not going to explain here, because most people do not yet have a clue what is being done in the US to innocent travelers, so there is no point in telling it to those who won't believe.

In Mexico, seldom does a cop want more than a couple hundred dollars. In the US they want your car, and are willing to violate the law to get it.

If it were as bad as you say, none of us would be in Mexico.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Quote: "If it were as bad as you say, none of us would be in Mexico."

That is the truth! Frankly, we've never felt safer anywhere in the world. If you aren't involved in crime or corruption yourself, you are quite safe. Random acts of violence are rare and the attempts by 'traficos' to extort money from travelers can be avoided by knowing a bit of the law and speaking some Spanish. Otherwise, just demand the ticket and hold your ground. They'll tire and go away, but it might take half an hour of sitting with your window closed and your arms crossed, ignoring his taps on your window.


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## verdeva (Sep 18, 2008)

RVGRINGO said:


> Quote: "If it were as bad as you say, none of us would be in Mexico."
> 
> That is the truth! Frankly, we've never felt safer anywhere in the world. If you aren't involved in crime or corruption yourself, you are quite safe. Random acts of violence are rare and the attempts by 'traficos' to extort money from travelers can be avoided by knowing a bit of the law and speaking some Spanish. Otherwise, just demand the ticket and hold your ground. They'll tire and go away, but it might take half an hour of sitting with your window closed and your arms crossed, ignoring his taps on your window.


I know by agreeing with the MOD that I'll be labeled a lackey, but the truth is the truth. We too feel safer in our little ol' pueblito than in most places in the U.S. Beyond casual theft (not robbery, not breaking and entering, not assault, all of which are extremely rare) about the worst thing that's happened in well over two years is getting pulled over by a transito who was looking for some extra money for the holidays. It took 30 min. and a lot of "why have you detained me?", but when I did not offer money it was "have a safe trip." Involved in drugs? This isn't a good place to be (but probably not safe darn near anywhere.) Forewarned is Forearmed, i.e. do your homework first.
VerdeVa


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## handels (Oct 23, 2008)

I feel much safer in DF than in NYC, for certain. Equal chances of getting mugged, much smaller chance of being killed because they felt like it.

I'm glad you brought up the air quality too. I think it's at least as clean if not better than other large cities. I go running outside and haven't had any effects at all on my asthma, even with the altitude change.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

Several times, in the Texcoco/La Paz area, we have had cops try to extort us. 

So, when we came back to the States in September (stuck here getting mobile home hurricane damage fixed) a cop pulled us over at the west end of Texoco-Peñon cuota, just before turning north on the Mexiquense. I thought, oh, no, here we go again. 

But, he actually asked us if the local cops had given us any problems. We told him not today, in the past, but not today. 

He told us to be sure to report any such attempts, and smiled, then waved us on.


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

teadust said:


> I think this is a pretty cool effort on the part of Mexico to query resident expats on their opinions and experiences in moving to and residing in Mexico. Hopefully the feedback they get will enlighten them on where they might improve things related to expat immigration and long-term residency.


Yes, assuming someone actually acts on the information;

I've been hearing for *years* that they intend to simplify/streamline the Migracion procedures, the latest passionate promises being from the woman that Calderon appointed to head that department, but .......... nothing has changed in the eight years that I've been here except the cost. 
Every friggin' year you have to make multiple trips to Migracion to renew your resident visa! and even when nothing ever changes in your situation (e.g. address, income, etc) they'll *still* find something to reject your renewal, even when you've filled it out exactly like previous years.
I refuse to give the mordida that the lawyers there at Migracion say will smooth my renewal through the process, so each year it's a hassle.

Yes, maybe someone will read these surveys and actually DO something to change the current climate but I'm not holding my breath.


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

PieGrande said:


> In Mexico, seldom does a cop want more than a couple hundred dollars. In the US they want your car, and are willing to violate the law to get it.
> If it were as bad as you say, none of us would be in Mexico.


Are you serious?? It almost sounds like it's okay (or at least acceptable) with you to be shaken down for "a couple hundred dollars".
Seems you had some experience in the U.S. with the police that makes Mexico some kind of safe paradise; are you referring to numerous attempts by U.S. police to take your car? or just one experience?

Today I went for my monthly haircut, and was talking with her about the armed theft of my neighbor's car recently. I asked her (a native in this colonia) what her & her neighbor's experiences have been with theft, violence, etc. Well, did I get an ear-full !! 
This is a relatively safe neighborhood when compared to 90% of the rest of the city, but seems hardly a single family has been untouched by violence and robbery and theft around here. Just one example: the TelCel distributor a few doors from my hairstylist just closed his doors last week, because they'd been robbed three times this year already. 
And it "feels" like a very safe neighborhood !! And, according to crime statistics I've seen that are posted at the offices of the Delegacion, in fact *it is* one of the safest areas of the city.

But you are being naive if you think you're safer here in Mexico (in general) than you are in the U.S. (in general).

I'm happy for you though that you can feel so positive about your position; really.

Nowhere is the expression "Ignorance is Bliss" more applicable than here in Mexico.


As for your contention that none of us would be here if it were that bad: well, many many foreigners who did come here to stay, are *in fact* no longer here because of security issues, in addition to the third-world living standards. I have made many friends here in my eight years living in Mexico who've mostly just up and left eventually when the crime and living standards proved to be just too much to handle. 
I believe we often convince ourselves that things are not so bad here, because of the investment & commitment we've made here; and we just don't want to admit we might have been overly optimistic about a few things. And I suppose hiding our heads in the sand is one type of response.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

Big Mutt, you have a writing style exactly like a well known person on the Web, including the very negative view of Mexico, which is strange for someone who voluntarily lives there. Even your initials are the same, BM. Also, your sarcastic accusations directed at others who dare to have a different viewpoint,which is the benefit of a forum, are exactly like his. So, perhaps I owe you an apology, since even the initials are correct, because that person only visits Mexico a few weeks a year since 1998.

August 2007 in Mississippi a cop pulled me over on totally bogus probable cause, and he tried to forcibly enter my back hatch, also with no probable cause and without permission, then told some phony story about why he had stopped me. Clearly, he was hoping to find cause to steal my mini-van since it was out of state plates. I am convinced if he had opened that hatch, my car would have been gone with a packet of drugs from his own pocket. If you choose not to believe that, it is your choice, I don't give a hoot because I was there and you weren't.

Later, when I called my son, he told the same bogus probable cause to stop had occurred to him around two hours earlier in Arkansas, and on a previous trip he had told me before a cop stopped him with no probable cause which really upset him. WE FIGURED IT OUT!!!

I have talked to other people who have had the same experience in other places, and if you investigate, you will learn they are doing highly illegal things, including confiscating quantities of cash less then the $10,000 they are authorized by Federal law to confiscate, then smirking and saying, "So sue us!" knowing such lawsuits cost around $30,000.

SCOTUS in 1998 ruled cops do not have the right to do a complete car search for a bad light or speeding ticket, (Knowles v. Iowa). Cops routinely lie to people and tell them they have the right to search their car. I see those poor devils sitting way up on the bank of the Interstate while cops shred the contents of their cars.

I must add, wish it were not necessary, that I do not take the defensive position very well, especially from those not qualified to judge my comments. You can report your own experience, that is the function of a forum, but I would appreciate it if you back off on the personal attacks and sarcasm directed at those who dare to state a different opinion. I did not come here to be subject to your negative remarks. And, I do not grant you the right to judge my comments or to evaluate them for truth or accuracy. You state what you see and know, and I will do the same thing. I don't judge you; you don't judge me.

If you would rather have your car stolen by robber cops in the US than pay $200 to robber cops in Mexico, that is your choice. I have a different opinion.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Ok, let's play nice or I'll have to push the 'vanish button.'


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