# Building in Tulum



## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

I have decided to settle in Tulum and will be remodelling an existing building to covert it into a posada. However, I will be doing this on somewhat of a tight budget. and I am already feeling a little overwhelmed with conflicting information and very vague costings. 

Naturally, I don't want to just wade in and would benefit greatly from some local knowledge with regards to the building process and the legalities entailed.

If anyone could offer pointers it would be greatly appreciated!!

Brian


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I can give you advice, when you can, send me a PM


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I can give you advice, when you can, send me a PM


The OP will be able to send you a PM once he has made 5 posts.


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

Thanks for your post Gary

Unfortunately, as you can see I am unable to PM to get some more details directly from you.

I am very close to signing a lease agreement (in fact, I've postponed the signing today until Wednesday) but I am more than slightly concerned about my lack of knowledge of the full costs and the legalities involved and how to source good (and reliable) tradesmen.
I am taking a lease out on a commercial building and remodelling (and adding to it) to turn it from a restaurant/ bar into a hostel/posada. What little information I am getting is conflicting and confusing (not just in a bureaucratic way). 

Basically, I could benefit greatly from some good honest local advice here in Tulum.

Are you familiar with any good bilingual lawyers, accountants, and tradesmen here in Tulum (or Playa) that could assist me?

I should add that my funds are rather limited and I am by no means a flash expat.

Any advice you could offer would be great!

Best regards

Brian


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

.bdc said:


> Thanks for your post Gary
> 
> Unfortunately, as you can see I am unable to PM to get some more details directly from you.
> 
> ...


Just post another few times and you can PM me


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

You are going to put a bunch of money in a rental .... doesn't sound wise to me


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok Gary... then I will post away!


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

Thanks for the input Sparks!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> Just post another few times and you can PM me


Exactly three more times.


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

Post no.5.... Now can I private message????


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Do you have an attorney/notario publico and an accountant assisting you with this? My suggestion is not to sign anything/buy anything until after you have a better understanding of the legalities, including land ownership and any immigration requirements. IMO, using the forum solely to solicit information by PM kind of defeats the purpose of a public forum ... where questions/answers are available for all to see ... now or 6 months from now. Not posting the most intimate of the details isn't a wise thing to do, I understand.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

.bdc said:


> Thanks for the input Sparks!


I expected you to say that I misunderstood you and you are not leasing this place. Fixing up someone else's place because they can't afford to sounds like disaster


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Do you realize that you will have to hire both an attorney (scary) and an accountatnt (even more so) to start and to operate a business; on top of having to have the proper visa, working permission/notification to immigration authorities, and then......employee requirements and obligations; all in Spanish legalese.
I see a money pit situation on your horizon.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Do you realize that you will have to hire both an attorney (scary) and an accountatnt (even more so) to start and to operate a business; on top of having to have the proper visa, working permission/notification to immigration authorities, and then......employee requirements and obligations; all in Spanish legalese.
> I see a money pit situation on your horizon.


I agree. Based on what you have told us, it seems very premature to be signing a lease on a building.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

He needs a Notario/lawyer just to find out if this property has issues. Clean ownership, leans, family squabble .... or if "the owner" is really the owner. Then what if "the owner" wants to nullify the lease once it's fixed up.

Then comes the running the business legally side of it .....

Totally crazy if you ask me


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sparks said:


> He needs a Notario/lawyer just to find out if this property has issues. Clean ownership, leans, family squabble .... or if "the owner" is really the owner. Then what if "the owner" wants to nullify the lease once it's fixed up.
> 
> Then comes the running the business legally side of it .....
> 
> Totally crazy if you ask me


"Crazy" might be a bit too harsh - maybe "unrealistic" is a better way to describe it.


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## RTL44 (Nov 26, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> I agree. Based on what you have told us, it seems very premature to be signing a lease on a building.


I also agree. I know of someone who was told by government entities that she could renovate and remodel an abandoned property in Tulum and rent it out. After spending months and 10's of thousands of dollars renovating it, the original "owner" came out of nowhere to reclaim their land. She lost it all with absolutely no recourse. 

I know that isn't the exact same situation, but patience and some thorough research would be wise.


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

sparks said:


> I expected you to say that I misunderstood you and you are not leasing this place. Fixing up someone else's place because they can't afford to sounds like disaster


Thanks again Sparks. You really are a great help! With regard to 'fixing up someone else's place because they can't afford it' , you couldn't be more wrong. The landlord is very much in a financial position to do works himself and it's me who is remodelling to suit my own needs and to generate an income.


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

Longford said:


> Do you have an attorney/notario publico and an accountant assisting you with this? My suggestion is not to sign anything/buy anything until after you have a better understanding of the legalities, including land ownership and any immigration requirements. IMO, using the forum solely to solicit information by PM kind of defeats the purpose of a public forum ... where questions/answers are available for all to see ... now or 6 months from now. Not posting the most intimate of the details isn't a wise thing to do, I understand.


Thank you for you response and I appreciate that I should be doing this publicly on the forum. Due to time constraints, I was just hoping that there was somebody here in Tulum I could meet face to face to talk about the process. 

I have set-up some meetings with different lawyers and accountants today and hopefully in the next few days I will have found the people I'm comfortable working with.

Again, thank you for your post which gives me some direction.  

Hopefully I will be posting a current 'how to do' in Mexico in the not too distant future.  Just right now it's a bit of minefield for me.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

.bdc said:


> Thank you for you response and I appreciate that I should be doing this publicly on the forum. Due to time constraints, I was just hoping that there was somebody here in Tulum I could meet face to face to talk about the process.
> 
> I have set-up some meetings with different lawyers and accountants today and hopefully in the next few days I will have found the people I'm comfortable working with.
> 
> ...


Do you have a decent command of Spanish? Even if the lawyers and accountants you will be discussing your plans with speak English, there is always something lost in communication when neither side has a good command of the other's language.


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> Do you have a decent command of Spanish? Even if the lawyers and accountants you will be discussing your plans with speak English, there is always something lost in communication when neither side has a good command of the other's language.


To be honest my Spanish could be a whole lot better. But fortunately, I do have Spanish speaking friends (from Europe and Latin America) who are happy to sit in on any meetings I have to ensure I am fully versed before signing anything. 

Aside from lawyers and accountants I was hoping that I could get clarification on the building process.

For example, I have met with an architect, here in Tulum, and was advised that she would do my plans and obtain all the necessary permits in one fee. However, she also said that another architect would need to approve her plans before they could be submitted to the local council for approval. The fee for the 2nd architect is coming in very close to the original. To me it seems a bit strange that an accredited professional's work needs to be verified by another. Particularly one which works in the same office. Is this the norm??

Thanks!


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Do you have a decent command of Spanish? Even if the lawyers and accountants you will be discussing your plans with speak English, there is always something lost in communication when neither side has a good command of the other's language.


And when it comes to legal documents, even if you are fluent in Spanish it can be challenging to understand everything. When we were purchasing our property there were some phrases in the documents that weren't 100% clear to me. I figured I'd have my husband clarify later. Turned out he wasn't 100% sure, either. So next time we went to the Casa del Pueblo I had the _juez de paz_ translate the legalese into plain Spanish.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> And when it comes to legal documents, even if you are fluent in Spanish it can be challenging to understand everything. When we were purchasing our property there were some phrases in the documents that weren't 100% clear to me. I figured I'd have my husband clarify later. Turned out he wasn't 100% sure, either. So next time we went to the Casa del Pueblo I had the _juez de paz_ translate the legalese into plain Spanish.


Legal language in any language is a foreign language even to native speakers. Does that make any sense?


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Legal language in any language is a foreign language even to native speakers. Does that make any sense?


It makes complete sense. 

My husband and I also signed powers of attorney for each other at the Mexican Consulate in Toronto. Since I am not Mexican I had to sign an extra document stating I understood the POA document, which was written in Spanish, so I carefully read it through. Again, there were a few phrases I didn't totally understand, so I requested clarification. The staff person we were dealing with wasn't sure himself, and called someone higher up to clarify, and even she had a bit of a time explaining some of the phrases to me - I think no one had ever asked before, they just signed the documents.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> It makes complete sense.
> 
> My husband and I also signed powers of attorney for each other at the Mexican Consulate in Toronto. Since I am not Mexican I had to sign an extra document stating I understood the POA document, which was written in Spanish, so I carefully read it through. Again, there were a few phrases I didn't totally understand, so I requested clarification. The staff person we were dealing with wasn't sure himself, and called someone higher up to clarify, and even she had a bit of a time explaining some of the phrases to me - I think no one had ever asked before, they just signed the documents.


Good for you! That was probably the first time anyone had ever asked for a "translation" from legal to colloquial Spanish


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

no I did that too and I do it in my own native language. For some reason the legal language of Latin counries seems more apart from the everyday language than the everday and legal language in English.
I had to review contracts in my job in the US and I was much more comfortable doing it than reviewing a French or Spanish contract.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> no I did that too and I do it in my own native language. For some reason the legal language of Latin counries seems more apart from the everyday language than the everday and legal language in English.
> I had to review contracts in my job in the US and I was much more comfortable doing it than reviewing a French or Spanish contract.


I meant the first time that anyone had done that at the Mexican Consulate in Toronto, not in the history of the world!


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

.bdc said:


> To be honest my Spanish could be a whole lot better. But fortunately, I do have Spanish speaking friends (from Europe and Latin America) who are happy to sit in on any meetings I have to ensure I am fully versed before signing anything.
> 
> Aside from lawyers and accountants I was hoping that I could get clarification on the building process.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the clarification on legalities. Could someone perhaps advise me some more on the actual building process i.e. using architects to submit plans, locating tradesmen


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

.bdc said:


> Thanks for all the clarification on legalities. Could someone perhaps advise me some more on the actual building process i.e. using architects to submit plans, locating tradesmen


As far as I undersaand it the Architects build the buildings with their own crew of Abañales and have plumbers and electricians and Engineers they prefer and suppliers they get discounts and good service from all along the way. I haven´t heard of Architects that just drawup plans for small projects here, yet. It will be better to get a detailed estimate from an Architect/builder and pay in phases. IMO

That is the way we did it and everyone we know who built does it.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

.bdc said:


> Thanks for all the clarification on legalities. Could someone perhaps advise me some more on the actual building process i.e. using architects to submit plans, locating tradesmen


You're asking for very specific advice for a very specific location in Mexico and I don't think you understand or appreciate that just as we see in many other countries, there are local, state and federal regulations which apply to each situation - oftentimes varying by location/situation. IMO, you should select a local attorney who can advise you, walk you through all of this. It's unlikely that such matters as local approvals for renovations and construction are handled similarly in Baja California as they are in the Lake Chapala communities, in the D.F. or in Tulum. It's more than likely the steps which are to be followed in Tulum are different than elsewhere in Quintana Roo. If you attempt to 'cut corners' and save on expenses by excluding competent legal/accounting advice at the front end, you will likely end-up paying for it, and more for the advice, after you stumble along the way. I have a picture in my mind that you're a nice sized fish swimming in a pool of sharks. It's not the place to be. People here are marvelously helpful, but it's local, good local advice you need.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

.bdc, your posts #1 and #4 have defined your problems and the aforementioned sharks will have picked up on that already; without having to read your posts. Frankly, I agree that you are a fish in a pool of sharks and that the sharks can smell blood from a long way away.....fresh, naive blood.
Why do you want to do this? Do you have a detailed marketing plan? Are you aware of the pitfalls already mentioned, and that there are many, many more? 
Everything will escalate and go way over budget; there will be problems and confusion until you are broke. Then the really big sharks will circle, hoping to squeeze assets from your stones, even if they are in your home country........


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

My friend paid cash for a oceanfront lot 3 1/2 years ago at the advise of the Notario he hired near Careyitos, Jalisco. He had hopes 2 years ago of getting the "escriptura". He has no INM document except his 180 day FMM tourist cards every winter and rents in Bucarias for 4 months. The last time we were with him in Bucerias he wouldn´t even talk about it.


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## .bdc (Jun 16, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> .bdc, your posts #1 and #4 have defined your problems and the aforementioned sharks will have picked up on that already; without having to read your posts. Frankly, I agree that you are a fish in a pool of sharks and that the sharks can smell blood from a long way away.....fresh, naive blood.
> Why do you want to do this? Do you have a detailed marketing plan? Are you aware of the pitfalls already mentioned, and that there are many, many more?
> Everything will escalate and go way over budget; there will be problems and confusion until you are broke. Then the really big sharks will circle, hoping to squeeze assets from your stones, even if they are in your home country........


I am aware of the fact that I am naive when it comes to doing business in Mexico, hence the reason I am trying to get my hands on as much useful information (both on here and speaking to local people who have gone through the same process) to minimise any problems. What I'm NOT looking for is some random sitting in front of his computer all day, hoping to p*ss all over somebody's dream. 

My title clearly states "Tulum" and not all of Mexico, as I am aware the process differs from state to state. All I was hoping for was for someone who has already done some building work in Tulum that could possibly shed some light on the processes and difficulties they has encountered (and how they overcame them). 

Your input is clearly of no interest to me, as it offers no local knowledge. Therefore, please feel free to jog on.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

.bdc said:


> I am aware of the fact that I am naive when it comes to doing business in Mexico, hence the reason I am trying to get my hands on as much useful information (both on here and speaking to local people who have gone through the same process) to minimise any problems. What I'm NOT looking for is some random sitting in front of his computer all day, hoping to p*ss all over somebody's dream. My title clearly states "Tulum" and not all of Mexico, as I am aware the process differs from state to state. All I was hoping for was for someone who has already done some building work in Tulum that could possibly shed some light on the processes and difficulties they has encountered (and how they overcame them). Your input is clearly of no interest to me, as it offers no local knowledge. Therefore, please feel free to jog on.


I agree with you on most of your comment

Just because there has been some, even many, people who failed, does not mean it has to happen to you

I have lots of experience building, dealing with notarios, albañiles, foremen, suppliers, etc. And I think I could be of help, for free of course, PM me or write an email if I can be useful


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

.bdc said:


> To be honest my Spanish could be a whole lot better. But fortunately, I do have Spanish speaking friends (from Europe and Latin America) who are happy to sit in on any meetings I have to ensure I am fully versed before signing anything. Aside from lawyers and accountants I was hoping that I could get clarification on the building process. For example, I have met with an architect, here in Tulum, and was advised that she would do my plans and obtain all the necessary permits in one fee. However, she also said that another architect would need to approve her plans before they could be submitted to the local council for approval. The fee for the 2nd architect is coming in very close to the original. To me it seems a bit strange that an accredited professional's work needs to be verified by another. Particularly one which works in the same office. Is this the norm?? Thanks!


No, that is not the norm
There are some certified Engineers and Architects to sign the official blueprints and act as DRO, director responsable de obra
DRO's are to be paid more
Well, depending on the type of drawings to be made, some are very detailed, with renders and all and are rather expensive


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

AlanMexicali said:


> As far as I undersaand it the Architects build the buildings with their own crew of Abañales and have plumbers and electricians and Engineers they prefer and suppliers they get discounts and good service from all along the way. I haven´t heard of Architects that just drawup plans for small projects here, yet. It will be better to get a detailed estimate from an Architect/builder and pay in phases. IMO
> 
> That is the way we did it and everyone we know who built does it.


I went into Obras Publicas only for a permit ... but had heard they usually have engineers in office that will draw legal plans. My napkin drawing was enough for the engineer to produce a large scale legal drawing for about a 1000 pesos. Any engineer could have done that.

No way could that happen in Vallarta or Mazatlan but this is a smaller community


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## Playaboy (Apr 11, 2014)

.bdc, I sent you the name of a contractor I used in a PM. Good luck.


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## jenerous22 (Nov 17, 2013)

Any International Living folks who purchased in Aldea Zama?


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