# Spanish bachillerato and A levels at same time



## boris12 (May 9, 2020)

Hi All,

My daughter is coming up to bachillerato next year and we are thinking about the options for getting into UK university. As far as I can see the UK and Spanish systems are unequal as the equivalent of an AAA offer in the UK has been achieved by 22.6% of UK students but the equivalent of bachillerato and PAU of 9-10 is only achieved by 5-10% of Spanish pupils making it much harder for Spanish pupils to enter UK universities. I have been looking at several possibilities but the most obvious (i.e. moving to UK school) is not possible for me at the moment. Instead I have been thinking that she could take the bachillerato here and A levels on-line at the same time as there should be a lot of overlap between the subjects (thinking Maths, Physics and further maths). Anyone have any experience of such a scheme - or thoughts welcome.

Thanks in advance

Ben


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Are you aware that at bachi students take (roughly) 11 subjects? This means, inevitably, those subjects are not covered in nearly as much detail as A levels are. I suspect the amount of overlap is minimal.

Personally, having recently had 3 children go through the system, I would think that would be far too much work and would overwhelm your child. 

My eldest was lucky and achieved a PAU score of 11 or 12 and so was able to go to a good University here in Spain. Why do you or your daughter want to go to a UK Uni? I would suggest going to Uni here.


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## boris12 (May 9, 2020)

As I understand it is 4 (or 5 in Basque and Catalan) core subjects and four optional subjects. Yes this is more than 3/4 A levels but if child is not a generalist and much better at Maths and science than languages (particularly if Basque is one of core subjects) then their average score will be lower compared to going A level route which at the end of the day can only really prepare them better for a university degree in maths and science than if they only did the bacillerato.

Nothing wrong with Spanish university ( I teach at one), just that some UK universities are better. According to Times list top 3 universities (all Catalan) are ranked 156, 170 and 193 in the world, after the top 5 they go into >400 in world raking


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Have you considered the International Baccalaureate? According to the governing body there are 88 schools in Spain offering it (International education)

I believe it's highly regarded (and accepted) by UK universities (I think they reduced the entrance reuirements a few years ago) as well as Spanish ones.

My kids haven't got to that stage of their education yet, but I imagine that doing A levels and bacchillerato at the same time is incredibly difficult. The IB might be a good compromise, although you'd need to check how it is implemented at prospective schools.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am faced with same dilemma. My son finishes ESO 4 this year and wants to go to a Scottish university and study in his native language. ( as it has no tuition fee, so good for me). His gripe is that the Bachi contains redundant subjects for him Castellano, Valenciano and English. All take up time and offer little practical assistance for studying in UK. The one advantage in setting sights on UK is there is no need to do Selectividad as that only applies for those wishing to access Spanish universities


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

boris12 said:


> As I understand it is 4 (or 5 in Basque and Catalan) core subjects and four optional subjects. Yes this is more than 3/4 A levels but if child is not a generalist and much better at Maths and science than languages (particularly if Basque is one of core subjects) then their average score will be lower compared to going A level route which at the end of the day can only really prepare them better for a university degree in maths and science than if they only did the bacillerato.
> 
> Nothing wrong with Spanish university ( I teach at one), just that some UK universities are better. According to Times list top 3 universities (all Catalan) are ranked 156, 170 and 193 in the world, after the top 5 they go into >400 in world raking


I have checked with my eldest - he did 11 subjects at Bachi. For the PAU it was 4 core subjects plus 3 or 4 optionals (recommended)


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## boris12 (May 9, 2020)

Unfortunately IB not an option for us as only school locally is private. The problem is not so much the bachi, it is really the PAU which as snikpoh says is 4 core subjects but in PV and Catalonia is 5 subjects and one of those is euskera which has equal weighting as maths - I´d dare say we would have a shot at Catalan but basque is completely another world and though my daughter is a fantastic linguist (English, Spanish, Chinese and French) she lacks the motivation to learn a completely alien language that will be of no use to her unless she decides to stay here (which she doesn´t) and she is at a distinct disadvantage as neither parent speak it. Equally although we spend a small fortune on private tuition extra lessons etc it is of no use if she wants to do science (which she does), and as mentioned doing A levels in science would not be wasted as it would be a higher level than bachi so would prepare her better for university. 

Should also mention that as an October child she could effectively sit her A levels a year later than bachillerato anyway as she would be in different year under UK system.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

This is a tough one. I guess another option is just doing A levels online, and forgetting about the bachillerato. Although I personally don't think 100% online study is ideal, especially for subjects with a practical element, such as sciences.

Alternatively she could possibly do the bachillerato and, if her grades aren't hgh enough to get onto her course of choice, she could then study A levels in a year at a specialist sixth form college in the UK afterwards. Obviously it means takiing an extra year before starting university, but plenty of international students study foundation years before entering a uk university so it's not that unusual. Also with her October birthday, it might not make much of a difference anyway.

BTW I don't think Spanish Universities are necessarily a worse option. Obviously some of the UK Universities have more prestige, but a lot of that is based around research rather than the quality of teaching. You do get a much wider choice of degree options in the UK, but for established, plain vanilla subjects there might not be such a difference. And there's always the option of studying for a Masters in the UK afterwards, possibly when your daughter has a clearer idea of what she wants to study anyway.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Why would you do the PAU if you want to go to UK university? Just do the Bachi whichis what the UK universities use as entry level qualifications. If she wanted to have a bit more learning in Sciences then take an extra year at college to get some more relevant qualifications in English. ( In fact English is usually required at at least GCSE level for degree courses and the Spanish English is a second language- so not the same) Besides this, it is good for a youngster to take a bit of a break from full time study before university. Part time college and some work experience etc gives them time to really think about what they might want as a career as I know lots of kids ( my students) who changed university studies after a year or two and it is quite demotivating


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

kaipa said:


> Why would you do the PAU if you want to go to UK university? Just do the Bachi whichis what the UK universities use as entry level qualifications. If she wanted to have a bit more learning in Sciences then take an extra year at college to get some more relevant qualifications in English. ( In fact English is usually required at at least GCSE level for degree courses and the Spanish English is a second language- so not the same) Besides this, it is good for a youngster to take a bit of a break from full time study before university. Part time college and some work experience etc gives them time to really think about what they might want as a career as I know lots of kids ( my students) who changed university studies after a year or two and it is quite demotivating


I think the problem with the bachillerato is the high entrance requirements for UK universities. But yes, there's no point in doing the PAU if you are not applying to a Spanish university.

For English I'm pretty sure most UK universities accept a wide range of qualifications, not just GCSE. I think a C1/C2 certificate will get you in almost anywhere for example. After all, they want to make it as easy as possible for foreign students to get on their courses, since they pay the most money.

However I agree about taking your time in general. It is easy to get sucked into treating higher education as some kind of race to get a good degree, followed by a good job as quickly as possible, so as not to get "left behind". I think these days there are so many different options and opportunities available, it's perfectly acceptable to take a bit longer and experiment a bit more.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I wonder what they do with English if you are a native speaker? The Cambridge, Trinity, exams are taken by second language speakers ( and to be honest are nothing like the GCSE English/ A level). Would a native speaker be required to do a GCSE or a C1 Cambridge?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

kaipa said:


> I wonder what they do with English if you are a native speaker? The Cambridge, Trinity, exams are taken by second language speakers ( and to be honest are nothing like the GCSE English/ A level). Would a native speaker be required to do a GCSE or a C1 Cambridge?


The answer is yes. In my experience, my eldest had to do Cambridge exams to prove he could 'speak' english.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> The answer is yes. In my experience, my eldest had to do Cambridge exams to prove he could 'speak' english.


So can native speakers use a C1 Cambridge instead of a GCSE English?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

kaipa said:


> So can native speakers use a C1 Cambridge instead of a GCSE English?


I don't think being native is relevant here. If you've been through the GCSE system they'll look at your GCSE grade, if you haven't they'll look for a C1 (or equivalent) instead. My kids will take the Cambridge Advanced (C1) exam at the end of ESO because their school will insist, even though they have native English.



https://www.cambridgeenglish.org/images/513617-global-recognition-highlights.pdf





> ...
> UK C1 Advanced and C2 Proficiency are accepted by nearly all UK universities and colleges for undergraduate and postgraduate courses. Top institutions like the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE), the University of Oxford and the University of Warwick accept our qualifications
> ...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

The C1 exam is not at all suitable for children ( ESO4) It is designed for graduates ( always was). The topic matter ( Work, Relationships, Travel) is not something easily accessible for 15/16 olds. Cambridge and Trinity dont offer high level English for school age although many do the exam without really understanding it ( Proposal : Town planning for new parking Zones!!!)


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I have no idea about the content of the curriculum, it is not something I am familiar with at all. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a fair bit of "exam prepping" involved in getting kids through the CAE, but they seem to do it. The British Council also offers CAE training for 12 to 17 year olds:



https://www.britishcouncil.es/en/english-courses/children/cambridge/cae-advanced


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I teach the CAE exam and was also an examiner in UK. The B2 is possible in a school form and then another for adults however this is not the case with CAE. You are right that fairly rigorous exam prep can get many students over the line - that said, love to see a 12 year old dealing with a Guardian article on speed dating!!


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## Su1 (11 mo ago)

Hi,
My eldest went to uk to do a levels and stayed with family. My youngest has just started bachillerato (with catalan) here, (it wasn't possible for her to go to the uk). Bachillerato is an enormous amount of study, she does a lot more hours and exams than my other daughter did with A levels and not doing so well in it either. There are a lot of subjects, the majority of which she doesn't enjoy. She also has been through the Catalan system so has a good understanding of it but still it is difficult. We are now thinking of switching to do A levels online so she can focus better. (She wants to do Maths, Biology and Chemistry). My other daughter did A levels in Maths, Physics and Psychology, and now is studying Maths at uni in London. 
I regret not being able to sort out A levels for my youngest. Not everyone know what they want to study so Bachillerato is good for that. But if your child knows already what she is interested in I would say A levels are better.
Although, I am looking for anyone who has experience with the online A levels! It might not be so good as in a college.
The other side is that funding for uni is a bit unsure with brexit. Even with a British passport it is unclear if they would now have to pay overseas fees (double home status for uk). 
Hope that is some help!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I m not sure if you mean that your youngest will stop school and just study from home? I understand your intentions and can see why she might do this. Do you mean she would simply study herself from books or enrol on an online course? I would probably choose for mine to do the same but I'm worried about the lack of participation that would occur if he didn't actually go to school. Having said that he would love to do it if it was his choice as he is very self-motivated and mature for his age. I also feel that there are number of subjects that are of little value to him that he needs to do in Bach.

As far as university goes my son was born in Scotland and lived there until 10. As he has been only in an EU country since and registered before Brexit then he can return to Scotland as a Home student and qualify for the fee exemption. He does not need to be in UK for 3 years prior to starting university- so that is a good thing. I believe that English students will not be treated as international students if the situation was the same for them although obviously there is no fee exemption in England. This however is only until 2026- after that UK nationals will not be home students unless resident for 3 years prior to course commencement.


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## Su1 (11 mo ago)

Yes that's right, I would maybe stop her studying the bachillerato and start A levels at home. I am worried too about her being disconnected a bit. But she doesn't really get to go out currently as they are constantly studying for exams. And there are SO many subjects, like you say of little value. And they have to do well in all of them to count to the final grade. My daughter is the same, self motivated. But I think also if they are studying what they have chosen it makes all the difference to motivation. 
She has uk nationality but was born here and never lived in UK. Hopefully like you say until 2026 she can get home fee status. The student finance people were unsure with my other daughter and it was a nightmare getting the home fee status, they kept changing their minds whether she was entitled to it because of brexit. I think it's probably a bit clearer now then.
Good luck with your son and whatever you chose with him. X


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Not sure about England but in Scotland you must be born there to UK parents to count as home student. What I'm not sure about is if you want to go to a uk university do you need to do selectividad/ Pau? Can you just do the Bachillerato?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

One good thing is that they can easily do the Spanish A level or Advanced Scottish Higher with little work so at least they have that.


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## Michaela Robinson (10 mo ago)

boris12 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My daughter is coming up to bachillerato next year and we are thinking about the options for getting into UK university. As far as I can see the UK and Spanish systems are unequal as the equivalent of an AAA offer in the UK has been achieved by 22.6% of UK students but the equivalent of bachillerato and PAU of 9-10 is only achieved by 5-10% of Spanish pupils making it much harder for Spanish pupils to enter UK universities. I have been looking at several possibilities but the most obvious (i.e. moving to UK school) is not possible for me at the moment. Instead I have been thinking that she could take the bachillerato here and A levels on-line at the same time as there should be a lot of overlap between the subjects (thinking Maths, Physics and further maths). Anyone have any experience of such a scheme - or thoughts welcome.
> 
> ...


My d


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Im now considering putting my son in a fee-paying school which does the English curriculum. I was thinking of returning to Scotland and putting my son into 5th form for Scottish Highers but that has proved difficult as the Higher courses start in May and my kid wont finish ESO 4 until June. Plus there was simply no guarantee my kid would get a place in our local school. So staying in Spain and doing Alevels is the best option. The school does offer a blended program of Bach an A- levels but it seem a bit like trying to get the best of both worlds and would probably not mean much in the UK. Now that the scottish government have changed the rules for home - student status it means my son would get free university without needing to have lived in Scotland for 3 years prior to study ( which was the case prior to last year). So hopefully this will work out to be the best solution all round


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## Michaela Robinson (10 mo ago)

My children have all been through the Spanish education system and the school has made the children sit the Cambridge exams which I was very happy about.

My eldest daughter started year 1 of Bachillerato during the pandemic but felt she was unable to carry on as she suffers from severe hearing loss and because she has to lip read, she struggled with the wearing of mandatory masks in class. We were worried about what this could do to her mentally as we could see she wasn´t coping very well and decided to pull her out. With a bit of investigating we found an online British school called Kings Interhigh school. The lessons are live and also recorded so if she misses one or doesn´t understand something she can always go back to it. She chose sociology and psychology A levels and is loving it, she has about four hours of live classes a day and has found the classes really interesting. 
Whilst she waited to start the new term we got her to sit the C1 Cambridge English exam and then she sat the Spanish A level ( we registered her at a British school in Alicante to sit the A level exam as an external student).
I also have twins who are currently in year 4 of ESO, I have one that wants to carry on and do Bachillerato but the other has decided to go down the A level route. I have been told by a friend who works at an British school in Spain that if they do decide to go to a Spanish Uni, having sat A levels then it counts as 10 points.


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## Michaela Robinson (10 mo ago)

Su1 said:


> Hi,
> My eldest went to uk to do a levels and stayed with family. My youngest has just started bachillerato (with catalan) here, (it wasn't possible for her to go to the uk). Bachillerato is an enormous amount of study, she does a lot more hours and exams than my other daughter did with A levels and not doing so well in it either. There are a lot of subjects, the majority of which she doesn't enjoy. She also has been through the Catalan system so has a good understanding of it but still it is difficult. We are now thinking of switching to do A levels online so she can focus better. (She wants to do Maths, Biology and Chemistry). My other daughter did A levels in Maths, Physics and Psychology, and now is studying Maths at uni in London.
> I regret not being able to sort out A levels for my youngest. Not everyone know what they want to study so Bachillerato is good for that. But if your child knows already what she is interested in I would say A levels are better.
> Although, I am looking for anyone who has experience with the online A levels! It might not be so good as in a college.
> ...


Kings Interhigh is an online British school, my daughter has been studying her A levels with them and loves it. The classes are live and also recorded.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I was considering online but I'm worried that my son would become too isolated. He doesn't socialize much as it is and if he were to work online he would make zero effort to meet people - given that he is an only child with no family here that is not a good route for me.

Incidentally isnt the Spanish A level module- form? How did she prepare for it if she wasn't at school?


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## Ilovepatnevin (Feb 26, 2009)

Michaela Robinson said:


> I have been told by a friend who works at an British school in Spain that if they do decide to go to a Spanish Uni, having sat A levels then it counts as 10 points.


To get 10 points to enter a Spanish university you needs 4 A levels each at A* grade. That's quite a big ask! 
4 A levels each at A grade will give you 9.09


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Ilovepatnevin said:


> To get 10 points to enter a Spanish university you needs 4 A levels each at A* grade. That's quite a big ask!
> 4 A levels each at A grade will give you 9.09


This is very true. There is quite a mismatch between Alevels and the Bach. I teach kids in Bach years. There work ridiculously hard for those years and are great kids to teach. The problem is that whilst they might appear to have a broader scope of education by doing 11 subjects- in reality everything is memorized as much as is possible and once you place things in new contexts they simply cant understand them. At least the A level students are learning a few things in detail and the exams are designed to test understanding not ability to produce the correct response in a familiar context. On top of this university in Spain doesn't do much better- students use the same approach to unversity as school. Because of this and the unfortunate fact that the UK and America still carry a lot of weight in terms of education I feel a uk degree will provide many more opportunities for my son than going to a Spanish university.


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