# Was my return Ok or not?



## FFMralph (Dec 22, 2012)

One thing that annoys me, is that we never hear from the IRS if the return was accepted without complications. You only hear from the IRS if problems occur.

This happened two years ago to me. Only the IRS letter arrived 2 months after the deadline set by the IRS! 

Now we have December and according to the App "Where's my refund?" my return is still being processed. 

Did another letter get lost? Should I call?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I've never heard of the IRS sending out any sort of acknowledgment that your returns have been "accepted without complications." Have always assumed that they want to keep all their options open throughout the entire statute of limitations period. (And if they suspect there's some income out there you haven't reported, there's no statute of limitations at all.)

Generally, no news is good news. Though if you're waiting for a refund, things get tricky.

I assume you've already seen the IRS FAQ on refunds, but for the benefit of others who may have the same sorts of issues: 2014 Tax Season Refund Frequently Asked Questions
Cheers,
Bev


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## FFMralph (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks Bev. Actually, I am not expecting a refund. I just want to avoid the hassle I had two years ago where a letter was not delivered on time. Back then, I would have had to pay interest if I had owed taxes.

Good, this can also happen if you live in the U.S. 
It is however, bad practice from the IRS. 
Here in Germany we get a tax statement after processing. 

You have no way of knowing if your US tax return was ok or not.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes, you do. You can order a tax transcript from the IRS for free. The tax transcript indicates whether the IRS has processed your tax return. It will also indicate any outstanding tax bill owed on processed tax returns up to the point when the IRS issues the transcript.

As pointed out, in most countries (including the United States) the tax authorities always have the option to pursue additional tax collections at any point in time up to the statute of limitations, including after they have received your tax return and processed it.


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## jbr439 (Nov 17, 2013)

FFMralph said:


> Thanks Bev. Actually, I am not expecting a refund. I just want to avoid the hassle I had two years ago where a letter was not delivered on time. Back then, I would have had to pay interest if I had owed taxes.
> 
> Good, this can also happen if you live in the U.S.
> It is however, bad practice from the IRS.
> ...


Canada also sends you a "Notice of Assessment" after processing your return. Seems like a reasonable and civilized thing to do given the stakes involved.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Another "trick of the trade" is that you can enclose an estimated tax payment for the next quarter in your submission to the IRS. It could even be for one U.S. dollar. If your estimated tax payment is processed -- if the check clears -- then you know the IRS received your tax return.

Let's not push hard for killing more trees with paper, OK? The tax transcript service -- particularly if electronic/online -- is a perfectly fine approach if you're interested in the IRS's up-to-the-minute current view of your tax situation.

_Every_ tax agency always reserves the right to alter its view up to the statute of limitations, and no paper in the mail will ever say otherwise. (Unless the tax agency is incompetent, and some are.)


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I should also mention that you can file a change of mailing address with the IRS at any time using IRS Form 8822. Note that your mailing address need not match your physical domicile -- that's up to you.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

jbr439 said:


> Canada also sends you a "Notice of Assessment" after processing your return. Seems like a reasonable and civilized thing to do given the stakes involved.


Just a question out of curiosity - does Canada have a "self-assessment" system? (i.e. like the US - where you report your income and deductions, then calculate your taxes yourself and send in any amounts due with the return)

I'm beginning to see that many (if not most) European systems are based on reporting all the relative figures and then receiving an assessment (i.e. they calculate your taxes based on what you reported). Doesn't mean they can't come back later to "correct" or ask questions, but they do the calculations for you. Am starting to see the advantages of that approach... if only for a certain level of closure.
Cheers,
Bev


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## FFMralph (Dec 22, 2012)

The tax transcript seems like the way to go. Thanks BBCWatcher. Problem is, the online registration doesn't work!


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

FFMralph said:


> Problem is, the online registration doesn't work!


No problem. Worst case -- and not at all bad -- is to use paper IRS Form 4096-T. Fill that short form out per the instructions, mail it to the IRS, and the IRS will send you a tax transcript via return postal mail. (They do so pretty quickly in my experience.) There's no fee except the cost of printing the form, the envelope, and the cost of a postage stamp.

Yet _another_ trick I should mention is that if you have to pay U.S. self-employment tax that'll show up in your U.S. Social Security Administration earnings history. After a reasonable period of time has elapsed you can (probably) pull up your Social Security earnings history online even if you're unable to pull up your tax transcript from the IRS online. For example, if you paid SE tax in tax year 2013 and sent your 1040 into the IRS along with your tax payment (including SE tax) in, say, June, 2014, you'd almost certainly see 2013 pop up on your SSA earnings history by now (December, 2014). You can then check the precise earnings amount to make sure it matches the self-employment income that you reported to the IRS. That's another excellent verification that the IRS received and processed your tax return.

Of course a tax refund paid to you is also evidence the IRS processed your tax return. You can "force" a refund even if you end up at zero income tax owed by making even one estimated tax payment of even one U.S. dollar a month or two (or longer) before you submit your tax return. You can also provide account details right on your tax return for the IRS to deposit your refund directly into your U.S. bank or U.S. credit union account. (It could even be something like an American Express Bluebird account. Anything with an U.S. ACH routing number and account number, really.)

Anyway, this really isn't something to worry about -- even though for some reason people do.  If hypothetically the IRS doesn't process your tax return you have a perfect defense if you have proof of receipt of your tax return at the IRS. Most of the world's postal systems can provide proof of receipt if your mail piece lands in the U.S. Postal Service's system as either registered or certified/return receipt mail. Proof of e-filing (if you're able) is also just fine.


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## Pacifica (Oct 19, 2011)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just a question out of curiosity - does Canada have a "self-assessment" system? (i.e. like the US - where you report your income and deductions, then calculate your taxes yourself and send in any amounts due with the return)
> 
> I'm beginning to see that many (if not most) European systems are based on reporting all the relative figures and then receiving an assessment (i.e. they calculate your taxes based on what you reported). ...


Canada uses self-assessment.


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## jbr439 (Nov 17, 2013)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just a question out of curiosity - does Canada have a "self-assessment" system? (i.e. like the US - where you report your income and deductions, then calculate your taxes yourself and send in any amounts due with the return)
> 
> I'm beginning to see that many (if not most) European systems are based on reporting all the relative figures and then receiving an assessment (i.e. they calculate your taxes based on what you reported). Doesn't mean they can't come back later to "correct" or ask questions, but they do the calculations for you. Am starting to see the advantages of that approach... if only for a certain level of closure.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Yes, Canada has a "self-assessment" system like the US. The only real difference is that we get a "Notice of Assessment" after the return has been processed. Unless you made a mistake on your return the NOA just confirms what you sent in. If you made a mistake, the NOA will tell you what was adjusted.

Really doesn't make much sense to me to make the hapless taxpayer do the calculations. It would be easy as pie for the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) to set up a web page for the tax payer to report income and deductions and let the CRA take care of the rest. It's almost like we're not in the 21st century. For folks who don't have access to computers, pen & paper (forms) & snail mail would still be available.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

jbr439 said:


> It would be easy as pie for the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) to set up a web page for the tax payer to report income and deductions and let the CRA take care of the rest. It's almost like we're not in the 21st century. For folks who don't have access to computers, pen & paper (forms) & snail mail would still be available.


That's effectively what happens now when you use tax preparation software or web sites. You enter the numbers, it makes the calculation, you transfer the file electronically and either write or wait for a cheque. 

Of course you do pay $25 or thereabouts for this service from a private company. If CRA developed its own site it would probably cost us all more in taxes, and nobody would trust it enough to use.


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## jbr439 (Nov 17, 2013)

There would be a one-time cost to setting up the website, then there would be a significantly smaller ongoing maintenance cost. UFile charges $16 for an online return (closer to $10 or $11 if you can find a discount code, which is usually find-able) if your income is more than $20k, free otherwise. Given UFile's rates, I don't see why a government run website should cost taxpayers anything noticeably more in taxes.

And I have to ask why you think people would not trust a CRA website and thus not use it? Personally, I would find it an improvement to not have to give my financial info over to a private company in order to do my taxes in an efficient manner.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Here in France, they actually pay you to use the e-filing site. First time you file online, you get a 20€ credit against your taxes. The various pages of the site are laid out just like the tax forms they send you - and even are pre-filled for the information the government has (salary, taxable benefits, interest from bank accounts, etc.). 

When you file, you get a certificate back to indicate that your declaration was received at the Fisc. Only wish the US had something half as useful for us overseas types!
Cheers,
Bev


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## theOAP (Aug 30, 2010)

A very broad brush, generalised, nonspecific description of the UK tax system:

Well over 50% of the population do not know what a tax return is. They do not file anything; they may never have filed anything in their entire life, even if their income may have been above the national average. They pay tax via the PAYE system where the government collects tax due at the source of payment (earned income, interest, etc.). If the individual agrees with what is being taken, there is no communication with HMRC.

Those who must file a self assessment return (have foreign income, for example) completes a form or files online. HMRC always responds by either a calculation of tax or a running balance of the individuals account.


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## ForeignBody (Oct 20, 2011)

theOAP said:


> A very broad brush, generalised, nonspecific description of the UK tax system:
> 
> Well over 50% of the population do not know what a tax return is. They do not file anything; they may never have filed anything in their entire life, even if their income may have been above the national average. They pay tax via the PAYE system where the government collects tax due at the source of payment (earned income, interest, etc.). If the individual agrees with what is being taken, there is no communication with HMRC.
> 
> Those who must file a self assessment return (have foreign income, for example) completes a form or files online. HMRC always responds by either a calculation of tax or a running balance of the individuals account.


There is at least an annual notice from HMRC giving the "Code" to be used for the up-coming year and the basis on which it is calculated. If there is any under or over payment in a year it is normally carried forward as an adjustment to the following year.

This crazy US system of (just about) everyone filing a return annually, and paying for a preparer or software to do it, is bureaucratic nonsense.


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## the_mighty_tim (Jan 10, 2014)

FFMralph said:


> The tax transcript seems like the way to go. Thanks BBCWatcher. Problem is, the online registration doesn't work!


Phew. Thought it was just me. I tried some months ago to get an online transcript but it just would not work for me.


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## maz57 (Apr 17, 2012)

I'll put in a good word for Canada's Notice of Assessment even though the IRS' "no news is good news" system is probably cheaper. 

I imagine any country's tax authority reserves the right to reassess things if new information comes to light, but when a taxpayer receives their NOA they know the return was received, the return was accepted as filed (or not), but most of all, the NOA begins with the words "Thank you for filing.....". It's amazing just how much this does for taxpayer moral!

Seems to me this is a good way to do business if you have a self-assessment system. Treating people with a little respect never hurts.


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