# Citizenship



## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

Hi, long time since I posted. If one becomes a Philippine citizen are you still classified as an ALIEN and therefore have to have a yearly report? If that is the case then how can one now produce their UK passport? There does not seem to be any clear information regarding this and I wondered if anyone has actually gone through this process. Thanks, John


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Not all visa types have to do a yearly report.

SRRV for example is exempt from the annual reporting requirement.


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## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

Hi thanks for reply. I'm on a 13A visa having married just over 5 years ago and therefore am eligible to apply for citizenship. Just wanted to know what the real benefits were, such as actually being considered a Philippine citizen and not an alien who happens to have a new piece of paper. In January I asked some staff at Immigration but they seemed to think that it made no difference and I would still have to undergo the annual report; if that is the case then for me becoming a Philippine citizen is not worth it. John


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

John1850 said:


> Hi thanks for reply. I'm on a 13A visa having married just over 5 years ago and therefore am eligible to apply for citizenship. Just wanted to know what the real benefits were, such as actually being considered a Philippine citizen and not an alien who happens to have a new piece of paper. In January I asked some staff at Immigration but they seemed to think that it made no difference and I would still have to undergo the annual report; if that is the case then for me becoming a Philippine citizen is not worth it. John


From what I've heard there's very little benefit anyway. Also athough the UK allows dual citizenship the Philippines doesn't. About the only benefit is that you can own land. I wouldn't personnally bother, at least with a British passport there's a change they'll repatriate you when China moves in.


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## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks for your reply; I suspected as much. Owning some land does seem to be about the only real benefit; but it seems that even with your shiny new piece of paper you would still be counted as an alien. I agree with all your points; especially your last sentence. If I come across any real benefit then I will post it here, but will be retaining my red or blue or black (or what ever colour they finally decide) UK passport for the foreseeable future. That reminds me, I will have to start the UK passport renewal soon. Thanks again.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

John1850 said:


> you would still be counted as an alien.


Citizens obviously aren't aliens, that's part of the definition itself. 



John1850 said:


> Owning some land does seem to be about the only real benefit


The right to own land is just one big benefit, also voting, business, gun ownership, once you're a citizen you have _all _the same rights as any other citizen under the law. The only "negatives" is you have the same corresponding responsibilities, such as paying income tax, etc.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> athough the UK allows dual citizenship the Philippines doesn't


The law doesn't state that: https://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9139.html


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

*No Filipino citizenship for non-compliant foreigners: CA*

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1094235


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## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

Shadowman said:


> Citizens obviously aren't aliens, that's part of the definition itself.
> 
> +++++++++++++++++
> 
> ...



Yes I did realize the definition which other countries use. However I did base my reply on a face to face conversation with immigration officials in Intramuros in January after the yearly registration. Perhaps it depends on whom one is actually speaking to in the Philippines.

Owning land just in my name is no biggie for me; my wife and I have 4 houses on subdivisions and looking to buy a few more in a year or two. I don't like working and prefer a life of leisure now so owning a business has no interest to me; my wife has her own business. No point in owning a gun unless you are going to fire it so not particularly interested in that. As for tax I only pay tax on interest at the bank from my UK pensions.
As I previously mention, dual citizenship would be appealing but the Philippines does NOT allow foreign born people to become dual citizens.

Thanks for the replies.


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## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

Shadowman said:


> The law doesn't state that: https://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9139.html


No dual citizenship for people born in another country UNLESS they can prove their parents etc are Philippine citizens.

The Philippine law DOES state that a foreigner, like me, can become a Philippine Citizen but it then goes on to say that this is presuming that I would relinquish the citizenship of my birth country.

This is not an exchange of equal passports. UK, USA, Canada, Australia, EU can gain entry into many more countries than a Philippine passport.


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## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

Hey_Joe said:


> https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1094235


That's me out then. Not fluent, but can get by. Didn't realize that they had changed that one sentence.


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## John1850 (Oct 31, 2014)

John1850 said:


> Yes I did realize the definition which other countries use. However I did base my reply on a face to face conversation with immigration officials in Intramuros in January after the yearly registration. Perhaps it depends on whom one is actually speaking to in the Philippines.
> 
> Owning land just in my name is no biggie for me; . I don't like working and prefer a life of leisure now so owning a business has no interest to me; my wife has her own business.
> No point in owning a gun unless you are going to fire it so not particularly interested in that.
> ...


Dual citizenship seems to be reserved for Philippine people only in the Philippines.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Hey_Joe said:


> "[Appellant] failed to convince the [RTC] that he could speak and write Tagalog or any local dialect. This, despite his claim that he had lived in the country for 37 years and his claim that he mingled socially with Filipinos.


So you can live in a country and mingle with the locals for 37 YEARS and then get denied citizenship because...you can't speak the local language? :lol:


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

John1850 said:


> Dual citizenship seems to be reserved for Philippine people only in the Philippines.


To gain citizenship you need to renounce. However once you have Philippine citizenship, you can regain your previous citizenship.

In most countries that means getting permanent residence or greed card type of visa, living there for years etc.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

John1850 said:


> Dual citizenship seems to be reserved for Philippine people only in the Philippines.


A friend who lives here was one of the White Russian Refugees who came here as a child. He speaks Fluent Tagalog, was granted Philippine Citizenship, owns titled land (resort) in his own name. 

https://www.rappler.com/nation/96920-in-photos-white-russians


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Shadowman said:


> So you can live in a country and mingle with the locals for 37 YEARS and then get denied citizenship because...you can't speak the local language? :lol:


Same with being disabled or a senior. Don't matter how long one lives here.

Non Citizens can't get Disabled Cards, park in Disabled parking spots, etc. 

Non Citizens can't get a Senior Card. But over 60 will get you locked up during a quarantine.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> To gain citizenship you need to renounce. However once you have Philippine citizenship, you can regain your previous citizenship.


There is nothing to regain, since you haven't lost anything. 

The law is clear - https://lawphil.net/statutes/comacts/ca_473_1939.html

You only have to _say _"I renounce absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, and particularly to the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . of which at this time I am a subject or citizen" etc

You don't have to _do _anything, not under Philippines law, and not under US law or any other nation that allows dual-citizenship.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

You don't have to [I said:


> do [/I]anything, not under Philippines law, and not under US law or any other nation that allows dual-citizenship.


Yes but the Philippines doesn't allow dual citizenship for non native born foreigners, so you suggest just lying.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> the Philippines doesn't allow dual citizenship for non native born foreigners


Whoever told you that should actually read the law itself: https://lawphil.net/statutes/comacts/ca_473_1939.html


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Shadowman said:


> Whoever told you that should actually read the law itself: https://lawphil.net/statutes/comacts/ca_473_1939.html


Not a legal expert but all Immigration people I know said the same. If you become a PH citizen, you must show proof you relinquished your existing citizenship. but that's not a requirement if A) you have filipino roots, or B) you were a former filipino 

Oh, Becoming a filipino citizen is NOT easy. Though it's easy on paper.

For women who marry filipino men, it's easier. Less than 5 years and they do get it, and lots have gotten it. 

For Men who marry a filipina, not so easy, as a Famous referee himself, tried a few times before it was fast tracked by a Congress resolution.

The only guaranteed way to get it is to get a congress resolution. Aka, connection, or $$$ (or Piso)

Others, like a few Iranians and Indians and all, who have lived here like more than 30 years, are still on TRV (no, TRV or 13A don't matter) .. or 13A. 

And don't forget, a Congresswoman recently proposed a law making it hard for foreigners to marry filipinas, As if lots of foreigners pump and dump, while locals breed 120K teen mothers every year and go scot free 



John1850 said:


> Dual citizenship seems to be reserved for Philippine people only in the Philippines.


Actually Filipinos swear they won't take up another citizenship, in strict places like Singapore, to take up Singapore citizenship. And then quickly fly home, and get back their PH citizenship. And it's cool as long as Singapore doesn't know or find out. (Well, PH doesn't share all sensitive data to other countries, heck, they themselves can't find information like proof of renewal of Visa) until somebody rats them out .. then they get a minimum of 1 year in prison and restricted travel .. 

ever wonder when you arrive, why the Foreigner queue is full of Filipinos as well ? Most are former Filipinos. And when the Filipino queue is small, they dash there, show their PH passport and cruise by !!!



Shadowman said:


> There is nothing to regain, since you haven't lost anything.
> 
> The law is clear - https://lawphil.net/statutes/comacts/ca_473_1939.html
> 
> ...


Well, In Singapore, one must show proof of renunciation of existing citizenship


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

simonsays said:


> If you become a PH citizen, you must show proof you relinquished your existing citizenship.


If true that's a game-changer, but like you said it's almost impossible to acquire citizenship anyway. 

I just think it's funny when people say it's not a big deal to become a citizen, when the whole reason that the government made it so difficult is _because _it's a big deal.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Shadowman said:


> If true that's a game-changer, but like you said it's almost impossible to acquire citizenship anyway.
> 
> I just think it's funny when people say it's not a big deal to become a citizen, when the whole reason that the government made it so difficult is _because _it's a big deal.


And not gonna insist I am right there, but new citizens have restrictions I understood, like gun ownership, or land ownership. It's not 1 to 1 vs born filipinos. Heck, even for politics and government tenders, one of the requirement is "Naturally born filipino.., " as if some are unnaturally born  hell, that's one point that was tried against Grace Poe as she was an orphan .. and when she was bidding to be the president, the cased file include questioning her birth. It was beyond Vile, i would say, though I don't like that woman


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## Rebaqshratz (May 15, 2016)

Gary D said:


> From what I've heard there's very little benefit anyway. Also athough the UK allows dual citizenship the Philippines doesn't. About the only benefit is that you can own land. I wouldn't personnally bother, at least with a British passport there's a change they'll repatriate you when China moves in.


Fire arm permit is restricted?


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

simonsays said:


> for politics and government tenders, one of the requirement is "Naturally born filipino.., "


Nothing unusual there, US has the same requirement. 

However, and correct me with the law if I'm wrong, once you're a full citizen you have the same rights as any other citizen.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Shadowman said:


> Nothing unusual there, US has the same requirement.
> 
> However, and correct me with the law if I'm wrong, once you're a full citizen you have the same rights as any other citizen.


i have read through lots of US government tender documents and worked on a program over one billion USD and another one over 250 million and no where did any document say anything about natural born US citizen.

I saw lots of positions restricted to US citizens but there were all ones requiring a security clearance. Sometimes citizen or Green Card holder, for positions in the USA, but never a distinction between natural born and naturalized.

The only place I have ever seen that distinction is as a requirement for the presidency.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Rebaqshratz said:


> Fire arm permit is restricted?


Yes, the Philippines is not a gun carrying society.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Gary D said:


> Yes, the Philippines is not a gun carrying society.


Yes it is. Many have permits to legally carry, especially business owners or anyone handling cash transactions.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Gary D said:


> Yes, the Philippines is not a gun carrying society.


They carry guns in our area concealed most drivers.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> The only place I have ever seen that distinction is as a requirement for the presidency.


That's the one I meant.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Hey_Joe said:


> Yes it is. Many have permits to legally carry, especially business owners or anyone handling cash transactions.


Permits, We don't need no stinking permits.

Do you really think everyone carrying a gun here has a permit?? And I am not just talking criminals.

Not everyone behind the wheel has a driver license either.

From what I read they can be easy to get, some professions can get them automatically.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

M.C.A. said:


> They carry guns in our area concealed most drivers.


You must live in a very dodgy area then. I someone wished to aquire Philippine citizenship just so they can carry a gun they would have to be a very sad person.

I suspect a large number that carry do so illegally.

For foreigner it's still definitely a no no.

It Is Illegal For Foreigners To Possess Firearms In The Philippines

REPUBLIC ACT No. 10591, the Philippines’ comprehensive firearms and ammunition law, is very clear on this matter: 
ARTICLE II OWNERSHIP AND POSSESSION OF FIREARMS - Section 4. Standards and Requisites for Issuance of and Obtaining a License to Own and Possess Firearms. – In order to qualify and acquire a license to own and possess a firearm or firearms and ammunition, the applicant must be a Filipino citizen, at least twenty-one (21) years old and has gainful work, occupation or business or has filed an Income Tax Return (ITR) for the preceding year as proof of income, profession, business or occupation. 

“applicant must be a Filipino citizen”


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> “applicant must be a Filipino citizen”


That's the whole point; when a foreigner becomes a citizen, he obtains rights of citizenship; business, voting, gun ownership, property ownership, etc. Except of course being elected to certain political positions where one would have to be born in country.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

LOL, all we can afford is a bolo and a large stick.
Seriously if you want to jump through the hoops to gain what? I looked into citizenship many years ago and it's too hard for all but the dedicated.
Gun ownership in the Philippines is prevalent whether legal or no. My better half can own a gun/s legally which means they are available to me? Self defence? Where do we stand legally defending our property?
Ben shot the intruder, I woke when the gun went off!

Walk softly but always carry a big stick. OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> LOL, all we can afford is a bolo and a large stick.
> Seriously if you want to jump through the hoops to gain what? I looked into citizenship many years ago and it's too hard for all but the dedicated.
> Gun ownership in the Philippines is prevalent whether legal or no. My better half can own a gun/s legally which means they are available to me? Self defence? Where do we stand legally defending our property?
> Ben shot the intruder, I woke when the gun went off!
> ...


I could own a gun in the UK if I wanted to go through the strick requirements, that doesn't make the UK into a gun carrying society.

The Philippines is the same, yes you can own a vun but unless you are a gangster most people don't own a gun or know anyone who does.

Gun ownership in the Philippines is very strick although I suspect very unregulated like most other things here.

"and has gainful work, occupation or business or has filed an Income Tax Return (ITR) for the preceding year as proof of income, profession, business or occupation."

They don't want poor people owning guns, heavens forbid they might get ideas above there station.

You wouldn't believe the rules here even to own a balo.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Sorry Gary I must be dim but I don't understand your ending/last comment.

"You wouldn't believe he runs here even to own a balo."

Aside, the same in Oz as we own 0ver 40 acres and hold firearms for vermin control. Prior to the Port Arthur massacre, 1996 and the government amnesty (John Howard), I held illegal military assault rifles as well as previously legal semi automatic rifles and a couple of pump action shot guns,,,,,, riot guns. All had to be relinquished and while compensation was paid it effectively disarmed the honest populace from holding semi and automatic weapons. While I won't get into the politics and outcome in Australia I am well aware that the Filipino people are well armed, legal and illegal. Like all things here it depends on who you know and what you are prepared to pay. Ben got his gun licence easily. For years I have learnt that most gun owners here don't talk about it, nor did I in Australia, nor you in our mother country.

"They don't want poor people owning guns, heavens forbid they might get ideas above there station."

Disarming the the populace is paramount in control whether poor or rich as we see and while controlled we only need to look at the statistical figures for those countries, yours and mine included to see the positive results. Criminals will always obtain firearms but their motives are very different to those holding a firearm for self protection.
While I'm sorry to diverge from the OP "citizenship" other members raised issues, property ownership, gun ownership, voting rights etc.
OMO but disarming the populous here ain't going to happen and one only has to look at the last hundred odd years of occupation to see where the mindset comes from, not being derogatory but it is what it is and gaining citizenship won't get you into the club unless?
Sorry for the waffle but guns are here and plenty.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> ..... My better half can own a gun/s legally which means they are available to me? Self defence?
> 
> ......


Like everything else here the result will depend on a lot of things and not all of them are necessary written down.

I would think that a foreigner using a restricted weapon even in self defense would have to show why they should not be charged.

Remember that foreigners have been deported for having pocket knives here.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

And for using a simple thing as foul language/disrespect and claiming nonsense. Deportation,,,,,,, honestly most likely deserved as Filipino people are very tolerant. Perhaps you never read "Ben shot the intruder, I woke when the gun went off!", something practiced? The bolo or the carving knife? regardless one will find themselves in sh1t but alive to fight.(one hopes)

Cheer, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Sorry Gary I must be dim but I don't understand your ending/last comment.
> 
> "You wouldn't believe he runs here even to own a balo."
> 
> ...


I think you must have read my comment before I had corrected the spelling, typing on my kindle is a pain.

Basically to own a balo it needs to be part of your occupation like a farmer. A foreigner is definitely no allowed to own one.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Basically to own a balo it needs to be part of your occupation like a farmer.


Or every coconut vendor


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> I think you must have read my comment before I had corrected the spelling, typing on my kindle is a pain.
> 
> Basically to own a balo it needs to be part of your occupation like a farmer. A foreigner is definitely no allowed to own one.


Understand now, Ta.
Our local Capitan has seen me wielding our bolo hacking down the prickle trees on the beach, he never said anything, perhaps seeing how incompetently I used it saw no threat? LOL.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Gary D said:


> I think you must have read my comment before I had corrected the spelling, typing on my kindle is a pain.
> 
> Basically to own a balo it needs to be part of your occupation like a farmer. A foreigner is definitely no allowed to own one.


It would be helpful if you posted sources to some of your comments. It appears you are misinformed.

The law doesn't segregate foreigners. There are too many scenarios where I and other foreigners have followed the law below and used the items listed below both outside and inside the residence as tools or in pursuit of a lawful activity.


Source:
"3. It is unlawful to carry outside of one's residence any bladed, pointed or blunt weapon such as "knife", "spear", "pana", "dagger", "bolo", "barong", "kris", or "chako", except where such articles are being used as necessary tools or implements to earn a livelihood or in pursuit of a lawful activity. Any person found guilty thereof shall suffer the penalty of imprisonment of not less than one month nor more than one year or a fine of not less than Two Hundred Pesos nor more than Two Thousand Pesos, or both such imprisonment and fine as the Court may direct."
https://www.chanrobles.com/bataspambansabilang6.htm#.Xsr2tkBuIcA


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

bigpearl said:


> Understand now, Ta.
> Our local Capitan has seen me wielding our bolo hacking down the prickle trees on the beach, he never said anything, perhaps seeing how incompetently I used it saw no threat? LOL.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


He didn't say anything because you were not violating any laws. You as a Foreigner were in possession of a Bolo outside your residence, using it as a tool in pursuit of a lawful activity. 

It is unlawful to carry outside of one's residence any bladed, pointed or blunt weapon such as "knife", "spear", "pana", "dagger", "bolo", "barong", "kris", or "chako", except where such articles are being used as necessary tools or implements to earn a livelihood or in pursuit of a lawful activity. Any person found guilty thereof shall suffer the penalty of imprisonment of not less than one month nor more than one year or a fine of not less than Two Hundred Pesos nor more than Two Thousand Pesos, or both such imprisonment and fine as the Court may direct." chanrobles virtual law library
https://www.chanrobles.com/bataspambansabilang6.htm#.Xsr2tkBuIcA


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

So a knife in your home is safe, taking one outside of your home for pursuit of a lawful activity is OK.

A pocket knife should be OK if you can claim a lawful activity for it, " I was going to buy an apple and peal it" should (might?) work.

Like everything else here a lot will depend on who sees you with it, what you are doing etc.


However there was a report here several years ago of a foreigner being deported for carrying one. He got a sliver and used the tweezers to remove it, was seen by a guard and ended up on his way home. 

Prior to reading that I had been carrying my Swiss Army knife and it was seen by several guards at a mall when searched on entry with no issues. Now I don't carry it, first time since I was 10 years old I have not had a knife in my pocket on a regular basis.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> The knofe law states
> 
> 
> _"3. It is unlawful to carry outside of one's residence any bladed, pointed or blunt weapon such as "knife", "spear", "pana", "dagger", "bolo", "barong", "kris", or "chako", except where such articles are being used as necessary tools or implements to earn a livelihood or in pursuit of a lawful activity. _
> ...


You're a Diver correct?

How many Foreigner Scuba Divers have you seen get arrested for using a Pana (spear gun), dive knife, spear while diving?

Have you ever seen any laws, signs, warnings posted in any Philippine Dive Operations that read it's against the law to use a Pana( spear gun), dive knife, spear/poke pole while diving?


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hey_Joe said:


> He didn't say anything because you were not violating any laws. You as a Foreigner were in possession of a Bolo outside your residence, using it as a tool in pursuit of a lawful activity.
> 
> It is unlawful to carry outside of one's residence any bladed, pointed or blunt weapon such as "knife", "spear", "pana", "dagger", "bolo", "barong", "kris", or "chako", except where such articles are being used as necessary tools or implements to earn a livelihood or in pursuit of a lawful activity. Any person found guilty thereof shall suffer the penalty of imprisonment of not less than one month nor more than one year or a fine of not less than Two Hundred Pesos nor more than Two Thousand Pesos, or both such imprisonment and fine as the Court may direct." chanrobles virtual law library
> https://www.chanrobles.com/bataspambansabilang6.htm#.Xsr2tkBuIcA


Not sure Joe, I was on our tax declared lot in front of our titled lot, these tax declared lots are traversed by the public as they all go to the high tide mark. You are correct though,,, or the law is and I was pursuing a lawful activity. That was last year, this year it's a chain saw as I never mastered the bolo, the chain saw is a lot quicker and just as dangerous.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

bigpearl said:


> Not sure Joe, I was on our tax declared lot in front of our titled lot, these tax declared lots are traversed by the public as they all go to the high tide mark. You are correct though,,, or the law is and I was pursuing a lawful activity. That was last year, this year it's a chain saw as I never mastered the bolo, the chain saw is a lot quicker and just as dangerous.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


The law is pretty clear and has common sense wiggle room.

I've never seen any law that Foreigners can't go into a WILCON or ACE Hardware located in any SM Mall and buy an assortment of large bladed garden tools, garden machete's, pointed bladed devices. Never seen a law stating Foreigners are banned from buying kitchen knives in a market? There are many other examples were all of us have purchased bladed devices for use in legal activities.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Perhaps the point here is not so much what you own/in your possession but as a non citizen living here and confronted and accosted by intruder/s in the middle of the night,,,,, day for that matter and defended myself, my partner and possessions with a pointed stick or a bolo where do I/we stand?
I am aware that home invasions resulting in the invader being killed or injured is viewed as self defence in other countries, here?
While I have no intention to test such a case I am sure it's happened here, outcome? Nasty and prolonged I'm sure.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

bigpearl said:


> Perhaps the point here is not so much what you own/in your possession but as a non citizen living here and confronted and accosted by intruder/s in the middle of the night,,,,, day for that matter and defended myself, my partner and possessions with a pointed stick or a bolo where do I/we stand?
> I am aware that home invasions resulting in the invader being killed or injured is viewed as self defence in other countries, here?
> While I have no intention to test such a case I am sure it's happened here, outcome? Nasty and prolonged I'm sure.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


1. *Anyone* who acts in defense of his person or rights, provided that the following circumstances concur; 

https://attorney.org.ph/legal-news/307-when-can-a-claim-of-self-defense-be-valid


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hey_Joe said:


> 1. *Anyone* who acts in defense of his person or rights, provided that the following circumstances concur;
> 
> https://attorney.org.ph/legal-news/307-when-can-a-claim-of-self-defense-be-valid


While I love google Joe it appears you like it more so, thanks for the link. Pretty self explanatory until one ends up in court or worst case dead, not a problem then.
I particularly like #6. Is that to protect law enforcers/military/employee/spouse or even an attack dog, providing it is lawful. A very broad inclusion that opens many doors.
Citizenship or no it would end up a battle perhaps worse than the altercation with only the mouth pieces winning as well as greasy palms. Let's hope none of us end up there.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Section 4 seems to be about disproportionate force. So shooting an unarmed intruder would lead to serious problems.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> Section 4 seems to be about disproportionate force. So shooting an unarmed intruder would lead to serious problems.


Article 11 as posted by Hey_Joe needs to be considered in its entirety as it's written by those like most laws, ready to milk the system.

4. Any person who, in order to avoid an evil or injury, does not act which causes damage to another, provided that the following requisites are present; 

First. That the evil sought to be avoided actually exists;

Second. That the injury feared be greater than that done to avoid it;

Third. That there be no other practical and less harmful means of preventing it.

How do you read this?

"Third. That there be no other practical and less harmful means of preventing it."

Well judge, my pointed stick and bolo was in the next room so my partner shot the intruder/s threatening us with a knife/s fearing for our lives.

As said a sticky situation and only won by the mouth pieces sponging your money, how deep are your pockets?

Let's hope none of us are ever put in this situation.

Where we live is crime free,,,,,,, apparently according to the locals, I questioned our Barangay Capitan about this last year. His response? "No one goes near your area (all foreign owned 99%) and everyone knows that foreigners own guns".
Foreigners in this country cannot own guns but our spouse can.
The blow ins here also employ and build great relationships, those local people also protect.

Our biggest worry here is the goats eating the garden, what size generator to purchase, which builder to employ to build fences to keep the goats out and house the generator, garage, extensions etc. this has little to do with citizenship, too difficult and personally I won't be going there.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Hey_Joe said:


> You're a Diver correct?
> 
> How many Foreigner Scuba Divers have you seen get arrested for using a Pana (spear gun), dive knife, spear while diving?
> 
> Have you ever seen any laws, signs, warnings posted in any Philippine Dive Operations that read it's against the law to use a Pana( spear gun), dive knife, spear/poke pole while diving?


My dive tool is a specific tool, for a specific purpose and it is attached to my dive gear, no question that it is there for use in a lawful act and is a part of that act. The only time I am actually carrying it is when I am geared up to go diving or I am transporting my gear and then it is usually in a gear bag.

However a every day carry knife, be it a folding one like a Swiss army knife or a fixed bade hunting knife when carried just out in public is not as clear cut. 

If I was a cop, I would accept that a swiss army knife was just a took that some guy was carrying in case he needed a tool, no problems the knife is actually pretty useless as a weapon anyway. But this is the Philippines and some cop or mall guard may just decide today that he wants to hassle some foreigner and if me and my Swiss Army knife are the first foreigner with a reason to hassle he sees then I would be SOL.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Section 4 seems to be about disproportionate force. So shooting an unarmed intruder would lead to serious problems.


For the intruder.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> For the intruder.


I assume you are saying that in jest or you really don't know how things work here.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> you really don't know how things work here.


You keep saying that without posting any actual laws or even any examples.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

OMO but the example, legislation was supplied by Hey-Joe, we have been debating the interpretation/s and for me how this legislation affects blow ins such as myself, I only hope that none of us need to test such a situation whether a PH. national, a naturalised national or an alien.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Well judge, my pointed stick and bolo was in the next room so my partner shot the intruder/s threatening us with a knife/s fearing for our lives.


Case dismissed. 

And that's if a case would even be filed, which is unlikely. 

Either way, it's like they say


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I would also say that if a foreigner is in the picture? A totally different can of worms as we are not citizens and apparently have dollars to be milked used and abused, opportunity is missed by no Filipino. As said pray none of us ever get involved in a situation like this.
As Gary wisely mentioned things are very different here and we have to play the game to live in this our chosen destination.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Have to add and OMO. Your motif might carry weight in your home country but,,,,,,,.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> Case dismissed.
> 
> And that's if a case would even be filed, which is unlikely.
> 
> Either way, it's like they say


I agree with you Shadowman life is better than death no second chances in death and I used to carry legally stateside but just in case there's any Expats reading this we are not allowed to carry guns or weapons no matter how close you are with the local PNP or Barangay Chief... And when that video comes out or you get caught shooting somebody they'll throw you under the bus even with your issued gun carry permit because it's fact that Philippine Law states only a registered Philippine Citizen can carry guns.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Shadowman said:


> Nothing unusual there, US has the same requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> However, and correct me with the law if I'm wrong, once you're a full citizen you have the same rights as any other citizen.


Lot of laws in Philippines go "naturally born filipino", so becoming A Filipino - not the same as born. One perfect example, holding public office. Must be a born filipino.. even though you lived all you life in Philippines, dicey. As few politicians found out, when somebody dug up their birth records

Sent from my ASUS_X008 using Tapatalk


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

M.C.A. said:


> I agree with you Shadowman life is better than death no second chances in death and I used to carry legally stateside but just in case there's any Expats reading this we are not allowed to carry guns or weapons no matter how close you are with the local PNP or Barangay Chief... And when that video comes out or you get caught shooting somebody they'll throw you under the bus even with your issued gun carry permit because it's fact that Philippine Law states only a registered Philippine Citizen can carry guns.


Well, it'll be my Asawa who shot the intruder and eliminated the threat. I'm just a witness. :clap2:


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Nickleback99 said:


> Well, it'll be my Asawa who shot the intruder and eliminated the threat. I'm just a witness. :clap2:


You would have an uphill battle proving that. The "pistol packing mama" does not exist in the Philippines. Best to be sure that she knows how to handle the weapon and can explain it to the police.

Don't forget about GSW. She will have to fire a round and you will have to wash and change. You may have to explain the time lag between the shots.

Of course not needed if she actually shoots the bad guy.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> Don't forget about GSW.


This is the Philippines, they care much less about GSW and much more if the intruder was an 'addict'.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> This is the Philippines, they care much less about GSW and much more if the intruder was an 'addict'.


I guess you just need to say the intruder was trying to sell you drugs so you shot him. Then you of course have the family who will be seeking revenge to deel with. A shot from a motorbike a year down the road. Filipinos have a very long memory and never drop a grudge.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Then you of course have the family who will be seeking revenge to deel with. A shot from a motorbike a year down the road. Filipinos have a very long memory and never drop a grudge.


Thousands of 'addicts' have been killed by police and nobody cares, you need to understand that not all Filipinos are the same or belong to the same class.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> Thousands of 'addicts' have been killed by police and nobody cares, you need to understand that not all Filipinos are the same or belong to the same class.


I assume you haven't researched the number of police killed and injured by drive by motorcyclists.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> I assume you haven't researched the number of police killed and injured by drive by motorcyclists.


Again, there is a hierarchy in the Philippines that you're missing. 

Nobody cares if a street addict intruder gets capped on scene, or later after he "tried to grab the gun of pulis". 

Now if you happen to shoot the mayor's nephew or something, that's an entirely different situation.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Shadowman said:


> Again, there is a hierarchy in the Philippines that you're missing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nobody Cares ? Ahem. Nope. When they are dead, families pop up like mushrooms, to demand compensation. Don't try it 

Sent from my ASUS_X008 using Tapatalk


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

simonsays said:


> When they are dead, families pop up like mushrooms, to demand compensation.


Not sure who told you that, but the reality is literally thousands have been killed by police, and nobody cares. It didn't stop because of "families" it only stopped because of pressure from the West. 

There is no "compensation" to be demanded if you kill some addict home invader, this is not your home country.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> There is no "compensation" to be demanded if you kill some addict home invader, this is not your home country.


The cost of the funeral, family support, you'll end up paying one way ar another.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

M.C.A. said:


> I agree with you Shadowman life is better than death no second chances in death


U.S national parks would always have no weapons allowed on the trailhead marker which I never understood. Always thought I'd rather get in trouble for shooting a charging bear than it eating me.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

cvgtpc1 said:


> U.S national parks would always have no weapons allowed on the trailhead marker which I never understood. Always thought I'd rather get in trouble for shooting a charging bear than it eating me.


For sure and what about our Bases... as a military member you can't carry weapons "WHAT THE HECK" on base so in a terrorist attack call the SWAT Team? Call the local Sheriff or the Military Police Force (mall cops) or calling local police to protect them... INSANE!


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