# Moving to Spain



## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hello,

Firstly thank you to all of you for such a great forum, I've used it on many occasions as a source for information. 

Myself and my fiancé are looking to move to Spain, more specifically the andalusia region in the next 2 years. We were both born and live in the UK.

We're both fortunate with our jobs so we can both work remotely from anywhere in the world (as long as there's an Internet connection) so work will not be an issue. Our only slight problem may be my fiancés health. Although young, she suffers from rehurmatroid arthritis and requires pain relief. When being on long holidays to Spain her arthritis has reduced due to the warmer climate so it is expected the requirement of such medication will reduce.

Will her health effect her ability to register for residency in Spain? Also, like in the UK will she be able to access specialists in hospital. We have looked into private health insurance, but most won't insure preexisting conditions, of which this of course is, will this be a problem? 

Finally, how will taxation work? As our employer is based in the UK?

Thank you in advance, 
Sean


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

As you will be living in Spain on a permanent basis and as you will be working here (all be it for a UK employer), it is my belief that you will have to pay tax here. You may have to pay tax in UK first and then declare this on your Spanish tax return - you won't pay the same tax twice though!

If I remember correctly, you can contact DWP and mention that you are working for a UK employer (and therefore are paying NI contributions in UK) but are living in Spain. In this situation they can then issue you with an S1 form which you can use to get state health care in Spain.

You need to get health care sorted (via the S1) and have salaries paid into a Spanish bank before you arrive so that you can then register on the list of foreigners (sometimes know as getting your "residencia").

Best of luck.


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. Are the S1 forms still valid as I was under the impression that they were not as of July this year (see NHS website, sorry i can't post links yet). 

Is all very complicated, does the fact we will still be paying national insurance contributions in the UK entitle us to an S1 form. 

This is our main concern so some clarification would be very much appreciated. 

Thanks again
Sean.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

sean14592 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Are the S1 forms still valid as I was under the impression that they were not as of July this year (see NHS website, sorry i can't post links yet).
> 
> Is all very complicated, does the fact we will still be paying national insurance contributions in the UK entitle us to an S1 form.
> 
> ...


The S1 forms are no longer valid for early retirers. That's the only change AFAIK.

To be honest you are better off contacting the official government department about this than asking on forums, where you will get a load of conflicting replies (not saying we don't know what we are talking about, but things change so quickly and it's a very complicated area!)

Full details here:

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-in-spain


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> The S1 forms are no longer valid for early retirers. That's the only change AFAIK.
> 
> To be honest you are better off contacting the official government department about this than asking on forums, where you will get a load of conflicting replies (not saying we don't know what we are talking about, but things change so quickly and it's a very complicated area!)
> 
> ...


I decided just to have a read-through of that webpage and find that it states that:


> Purchasing public health insurance
> If you are not covered for state-run healthcare through any other means, the Spanish regional health authorities offer a special pay-in scheme (convenio especial). This is a public health insurance scheme available nation-wide where you pay a monthly fee to access state-run healthcare. The scheme is managed by each autonomous region.
> 
> Policy holders pay on an individual basis for access to public healthcare, regardless of pre-existing conditions, anywhere in Spain. Children do not have to join the Convenio Especial as they are protected under Spanish law and can access state healthcare for free.


I understood that one had to be resident for 12 months before one could access the convenio especial.


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thank you very much for that information. I think I definitely need to get in touch with some governing bodies both here in the UK and in Spain. If anyone has any other information id greatly appreciate it. 

Thanks again, 
Sean


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sean14592 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Are the S1 forms still valid as I was under the impression that they were not as of July this year (see NHS website, sorry i can't post links yet).
> 
> Is all very complicated, does the fact we will still be paying national insurance contributions in the UK entitle us to an S1 form.
> 
> ...


you'd be best checking with the DWP tbh - S1s are available for the family resident in Spain, of someone _*living & working*_ in the UK - but I'm not sure if they are available if you're living in Spain & paid by a UK employer

they are also still issued to pensioners


if you don't qualify for S1s, then you'll need private healthcare, or it _might _be simpler to register as self-employed here (thereby accessing state healthcare here ) & invoice your UK company, if that's possible


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thank you again for your reply. The company I work for would allow me to send them invoices. If I was to do this can I confirm that by registering as self employed in Spain I would be able to access state healthcare? If an s1 is not available then this sounds like a very good option. How would of effect my fiancé, once I was registered, would she be able to also use the state healthcare?

Regards, 
Sean


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## Your Europe (Apr 10, 2013)

Hello sean14592, 

you can't choose the health care system under which your fiancé and you will be covered. As soon as you spend 183 days per year or more in Spain, you become a resident of that country, pay your taxes there and need to also get health insurance there. More information is to be found here: Your Europe - Using healthcare when living in another EU country. The Spanish National Contact Point on cross-border healthcare will also be able to advise you. 

Good luck!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sean14592 said:


> Thank you again for your reply. The company I work for would allow me to send them invoices. If I was to do this can I confirm that by registering as self employed in Spain I would be able to access state healthcare? If an s1 is not available then this sounds like a very good option. How would of effect my fiancé, once I was registered, would she be able to also use the state healthcare?
> 
> Regards,
> Sean


yes, once registered as self-employed you would have full access to state healthcare

your fiancee wouldn't though, unless you managed to register as _pareja de hecho _but most areas are insisting upon 2 years living together *in Spain *for two years before they will allow this

if you were married, she would be covered as your dependant


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Your Europe said:


> Hello sean14592,
> 
> you can't choose the health care system under which your fiancé and you will be covered. As soon as you spend 183 days per year or more in Spain, you become a resident of that country, pay your taxes there and need to also get health insurance there. More information is to be found here: Your Europe - Using healthcare when living in another EU country. The Spanish National Contact Point on cross-border healthcare will also be able to advise you.
> 
> Good luck!


not quite - it's possible to be paid in another country, pay income tax there & have it offset against any income tax due in Spain - although of course as tax resident here you have to submit a tax return

as for healthcare - can you clarify if you know if the UK would issue an S1 to someone working for a UK company, paying tax & NI in the UK via that company, & yet resident in Spain?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Your Europe said:


> Hello sean14592,
> 
> you can't choose the health care system under which your fiancé and you will be covered. As soon as you spend 183 days per year or more in Spain, you become a resident of that country, pay your taxes there and need to also get health insurance there. More information is to be found here: Your Europe - Using healthcare when living in another EU country. The Spanish National Contact Point on cross-border healthcare will also be able to advise you.
> 
> Good luck!


Not quite. As soon as you are here for more than *90 days* you are deemed to be *resident* and must register on the foreigners register and to do that you must show that you have financial and healthcare provision in place. *183 days* in a financial year (Jan-Dec) and you are deemed to be* tax-resident* and must submit tax returns of your world-wide income.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> not quite - it's possible to be paid in another country, pay income tax there & have it offset against any income tax due in Spain - although of course as tax resident here you have to submit a tax return
> 
> as for healthcare - can you clarify if you know if the UK would issue an S1 to someone working for a UK company, paying tax & NI in the UK via that company, & yet resident in Spain?


From gov.uk -



> If your UK employer sends you to work abroad temporarily (for up to 2 years) you might have to carry on paying National Insurance - you won’t have to pay social security contributions abroad. Ask your employer if this applies to you.
> 
> You may still get free or reduced cost medical treatment in the country where you’re working.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> From gov.uk -


 yes- if the company *sends you to work abroad*

it doesn't sound as if that applies to the OP


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## Your Europe (Apr 10, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> as for healthcare - can you clarify if you know if the UK would issue an S1 to someone working for a UK company, paying tax & NI in the UK via that company, & yet resident in Spain?


Snikpoh may have answered this, or else you can get in touch with the NHS contact point: UK National Contact Point - Access to healthcare in Europe - National Health Services (for other countries check National contact points).


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

sean14592 said:


> The company I work for would allow me to send them invoices.


Sean beware the dreaded VAT (IVA in Spain). No VAT registration threshold exists in Spain.


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

We are choosing to move to Spain, the company we work for is not sending us to work there. We are currently on holiday in Germany, but as soon as we're back in going to give the national contact point a call to see what our options are. Moving to Spain has always been a dream for us so we'll do whatever we can to move there, however obviously access to health services is important. 

Thank you to everyone that had helped, it really does mean a lot


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Your Europe said:


> Snikpoh may have answered this, or else you can get in touch with the NHS contact point: UK National Contact Point - Access to healthcare in Europe - National Health Services (for other countries check National contact points).


I already told him to contact the DWP for the info, because it is the DWP, not the NHS which issues the S1 - just wondered if you knew

contacting the NHS will get him nowhere


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Ah okay, thank you for clarification, i will contact the DWP as soon as we're back in the UK.


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

It is likely that when we come to move to Spain we will be married, assuming we are if I was to register as self employed would any state health benefits also apply to her? 

Thank you again, 
Sean


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sean14592 said:


> It is likely that when we come to move to Spain we will be married, assuming we are if I was to register as self employed would any state health benefits also apply to her?
> 
> Thank you again,
> Sean


yes that's right, as your wife she would be able to register as your dependant for healthcare


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Brilliant, always good to have a plan B. Thanks again for your help!


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Phoned the DWP today who told me to ring HMRC. HMRC said that because the national insurance contributions would be passed through to Spain I wouldn't be eligible for an S1 form. However the lady at the overseas healthcare call centre did mention that because my girlfriend gets support in the UK as she is disabled it may be possible to use this to get an S1 form. 

So a bit of bad news, however we still have a few more options to research. (including the self employed option)


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

sean14592 said:


> Phoned the DWP today who told me to ring HMRC. HMRC said that because the national insurance contributions would be passed through to Spain I wouldn't be eligible for an S1 form. However the lady at the overseas healthcare call centre did mention that because my girlfriend gets support in the UK as she is disabled it may be possible to use this to get an S1 form.
> 
> So a bit of bad news, however we still have a few more options to research. (including the self employed option)


I'm not at all sure about this and am more confused than ever. 

Why are your NI contributions being sent to Spain - and how? If they are, then how do you (or Spain) use them to pay for health care?


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

To be honest, I'm not sure how it works. The gentlemen simply said "no, because you would be paying NI contributions to the state you reside in and not the UK. i did explain that I would be being paid by a UK company via PAYE.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

When you leave you'll have to fill in a P85. You can do that now and withdraw it later if you don't eventually go. The benefit of doing it now is that you'll get written confirmation of exactly how your circumstances result in your taxes being handled in future.



sean14592 said:


> To be honest, I'm not sure how it works. The gentlemen simply said "no, because you would be paying NI contributions to the state you reside in and not the UK. i did explain that I would be being paid by a UK company via PAYE.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

sean14592 said:


> To be honest, I'm not sure how it works. The gentlemen simply said "no, because you would be paying NI contributions to the state you reside in and not the UK. i did explain that I would be being paid by a UK company via PAYE.


Ah, now I see. What he said was that if you pay NI in UK, then this only covers you for the UK. If you want health care in Spain, then you must make payments there. What he failed to tell you was that even if you pay NI in UK, you can't get cover there because you are resident in Spain.

So, .... try not to pay NI in the UK. Go self-employed here or open a Spanish branch and work for them (although I suspect this will not be worth the agro).

By being self-employed here, the payments will cover your entire family. The costs are about 260€ per month (fixed as in, not a percentage of earnings).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> =snikpoh;6013778
> By being self-employed here, the payments will cover your entire family. The costs are about 260€ per month (fixed as in, not a percentage of earnings).


But the payments for first time self employed (autónomos)are reduced now, aren't they?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But the payments for first time self employed (autónomos)are reduced now, aren't they?


Yes, currently €53.07 for the first six months, according to this link, increasing after that but still less than the full rate up to the first 18 months of operation:-


Tarifa plana para autónomos de 50 euros de Seguridad Social | Infoautónomos


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

I think going self employed seems the best option. Would alarm bells ring as I would be getting payments from the same company every month?

Thanks,
Sean


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

sean14592 said:


> I think going self employed seems the best option. Would alarm bells ring as I would be getting payments from the same company every month?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sean


In this case you'd be un_ trajabador autónomo económicamente dependiente_. I'm not sure what difference this makes, if any, but you need to make this clear to the tax office.


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

It would be interesting to know if this would make any difference? If anyone could shed some light on this id be very much grateful.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Equally, because it's an existing business that you will be working for and not a new start-up, I had assumed that the reduced payment scheme would NOT apply.

Am I correct - does any one know?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Equally, because it's an existing business that you will be working for and not a new start-up, I had assumed that the reduced payment scheme would NOT apply.
> 
> Am I correct - does any one know?


I would have thought that it would tbh - he would be a new autónomo registration - his client would be a former employer - he wouldn't still be an employee


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Surely as I would be starting a new business self employed the reductions would apply to me. I'm a Web developer, so it is possible that I could end up doing work for others too, however the company I currently work for will provide me with work each month.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sean14592 said:


> Surely as I would be starting a new business self employed the reductions would apply to me. I'm a Web developer, so it is possible that I could end up doing work for others too, however the company I currently work for will provide me with work each month.


that's exactly how I'm looking at it

many new registrations would have established businesses as clients - it's the fact that YOU are a new registration/business, that counts imo


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

My mistake then. I thought I read somewhere that you were employed by that company.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> My mistake then. I thought I read somewhere that you were employed by that company.


he is atm - but he said that when he moves over here it seems to make sense to become self-employed & have the company as a client


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

@xabiachica Would Spain have an issue with the fact that my only client (at least for a year or so) will be one company in the UK? - I suppose under normal circumstances if you were a consultant, to have one single client for a long period is a very real scenario.

Thanks again,
Sean


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Just two thoughts:

1. In the UK they introduced IR35 to stop contractors who sold themselves to just one client from delaying tax payments. The way around it was to dummy in an invoice or two, or appear to be selling a product (a bit of code?) so you could demonstrate that your business model was not just a way to avoid PAYE. Might be worth doing just in case. Rules do change.

2. Sean this is not aimed at you; you seem to be working everything out and I assume you are two people without dependents. But what you are aiming to do would be a very dangerous strategy for many and I think it is as well to point that out for others who may pass by.

While your employer may want now to keep you employed when they see the extra admin, the hassle, and start to forget you they may start to think otherwise. If they get a turndown in business you might be the first to suffer as you're now contracted and not an employee. While VAT may not seem a hassle if the company already trades in Europe it is a real pain. And VAT rules may change so that it is not reclaimable under such circumstances. And there's the extra costs and admin time associated with this new business entity. In a job like web design, as with others, the technology is very fast moving and attracts hundreds of graduates every year - can you keep your skills up while being remote, out of the main loop, and not pressing flesh?

As I say Sean you by your questions seem to be covering all the bases but I wouldn't want others to think - wow that sounds easy.


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

alborino said:


> Just two thoughts:
> 
> 1. In the UK they introduced IR35 to stop contractors who sold themselves to just one client from delaying tax payments. The way around it was to dummy in an invoice or two, or appear to be selling a product (a bit of code?) so you could demonstrate that your business model was not just a way to avoid PAYE. Might be worth doing just in case. Rules do change.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your reply and you are absolutely right, I wouldn't want people thinking that either. Moving overseas is a risky and big move that most shouldn't contemplate unless 100% certain they can sustain themselves (hence why the 4 pages of questions).

I'd just like to clarify a few things based upon you message though...

Firstly, this is still all very new (and very interesting) to me so if there is any part of my plan which may seem illegal or "dodgy" in the UK or Spain please do say. I want the best for myself and my fiance, however I won't break any laws to achieve this. As far as I'm aware I'll actually be paying more taxes in Spain than in the UK and avoiding such taxes I'll never be apart of. *Please don't see this as me accusing you of thinking such*, it's not that at all, I just feel the need in case anybody else reads this for me to make my position clear. I'm also in the process of starting a new online business focused on services to holiday rental properties so I do think it's better I be self employed anyway.

In regards to employment, you are again right Alborino, however I'm fortunate in my position. I actually owned a limited company which was sold in January 2014. The buyer of my company was a larger competitor prior to the sale and now employees me as the *only web developer* in the company. I have developed (as they were included in the sale) all the companies internal and external systems and I'm heavily relied upon to ensure the company stays operational (as it is an online retailer). I'm confident in my position.

With this said, I assure you we also have a contingency plan should things go sour. Me and my fiancee are seeing this as a potential opportunity prior to having children. We both love Spain and holiday there every year, I'd go as far to say we have passion for the Spanish culture and the way of life (we're currently taking Spanish lessons). At the same time we don't have a problem with returning back to the UK if we need to. We don't dislike the UK, it's a great (although cold) country, but our hearts are set on a possible move to Spain. We wouldn't attempt the move after having children (because of schooling) so we feel now is a good time. In addition to this, we have lived away from our family (in the UK) for quite sometime so the travelling time for them to come to see us by car is about the same by plane to Spain.

Finally, in regards to staying in the loop. I'm an entrepreneur at heart, so very ambitious in nature. I have been working remotely for a year now and have had the privilege of learning two new programming languages while doing so. So I can't see any reason for this to change.

Thanks again for your reply and sorry for the long response!
Sean


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

sean14592 said:


> Thanks again for your reply and sorry for the long response!
> Sean


Sean don't apologise for that; I was only interested in the thread because you drilled into the detail. Well and also you didn't want to teach the spaniards how to run a bar 

As for legality for sure if you combine your businesses as one, and thus multiple services/clients, then you are doing nothing illegal and you avoid any hassle for not only you but your UK client company. 

I myself have a UK IT company and will soon be resident in Spain and after consulting my large spanish family (many autonomo) I will use a UK limited company and that will pay me dividends. I will probably for a while go autonomo if it offers benefit but it will be with minimum turnover (but I'm married to a spaniard so somewhat easier for me regarding health).

One final thought, you will need at somepoint to consider a private pension. Autonomos tend to accrue less benefit and the spanish system in any case is creaking.

But I wish you every success and hope you'll keep this place up to date with the good and bad as your adventure goes forward. Enjoy hopefully your last UK Christmas as I will enjoy mine. It may be cold but there are a lot worse places than blightie and I'll miss her like crazy


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thank you! It's great to hear that you're moving to Spain, it sounds like you have it all planned out and I would also love to hear how your journey goes. Best of luck and please do keep in touch!

Sean


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

I've been doing a bit more research this evening and my understanding is to register as self employed in Spain and open a bank account you need an NIE number. My question is, to obtain an NIE number do you have to provide proof of state or public healthcare?

As I will be registering as self employed i was hoping to use the Spanish healthcare system, however if I can't get hold of an NIE number to access such a system my plan is flawed from the beginning. 

Further to this, assuming I get an NIE number and go to register as a resident, when asked for details on my private or public health insurance, is it acceptable to say that I'm covered under the Spanish system as a result of being self employed? 

Thanks, 
Sean


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sean14592 said:


> I've been doing a bit more research this evening and my understanding is to register as self employed in Spain and open a bank account you need an NIE number. My question is, to obtain an NIE number do you have to provide proof of state or public healthcare?
> 
> As I will be registering as self employed i was hoping to use the Spanish healthcare system, however if I can't get hold of an NIE number to access such a system my plan is flawed from the beginning.
> 
> ...


to get a NIE number you don't have to show proof of anything - that is for registering as resident

just say you need it to open a bank account - many banks now insist on this anyway

for registering as resident you will be able to show your autónomo documentation & your SS number & health card - you will have no problems at all

have a read of the MOVING TO SPAIN document on the first post here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html


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## sean14592 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks again, I'll give it a read now. 

Sean


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