# South African looking for advice and opportunity in Dubai



## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Good Day

I am currently an Acquisition Private Banker at one of the big 4 banks in SA and I am looking for an opportunity in Dubai in the same field (private banking).

I am married and have a young son (3 months old). I would like to enquire as to what the average costs of moving from SA to Dubai are? What is the nature of schooling and education in Dubai and which areas in Dubai are the best for raising a child?

With regards to salary, what is a decent salary for bankers in Dubai?

How do property rentals work? Is it advisable to have around R100k savings before considering moving to Dubai? Or does the employer cover the relocation costs?

Sorry for all the questions. I am focused on moving to Dubai in the near future and I would like to get the ball rolling.

Thank you kindly,

Mitesh


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

Moving costs for myself and my wife, think it was about R50 000 for a 20 foot container, paid by her company, used Pickfords. Takes about 6 weeks.

Rentals, paid annually, usually 1 cheque. Lots of info on the forums about this, including extra costs (agency fees, DEWA bills).

Not a banker, so can't help you with that.

Some companies will pay moving costs, yearly rent, help with car, and schooling for the kids, big international ones.

Hope this helps some.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Hi Klaaf,


Thank you for the feedback. Helps a lot.

What is life like for South Africans there? I've read a lot of positive and negative things so I'm stuck in the middle at the moment.

Thanks again

Mitesh


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

South Africa is a diverse country, so not sure your lifestyle.

I'm from Cape Town, did mountain biking and hiking Table Mountain once a week, love the rain, so this is a big adjustment for me, but its a new experience, and I'm embracing it. I got to watch some rugby in an Irish pub, with a bunch of Brits, an a few Ozzies, which was great.

Things are expensive here compared to SA, except fuel, cars, and water. The malls are big, but nothing you can't get from the V&A or Canal Walk....Gateway in KZN, or Sandton up North, unless you want to shop at Guess for kids....WTF. Decent sales on if you are a shopper, on a huge variety of things. Not paying income tax does help.

Its safe, its clean, and the interest rate is 1/2 of what it is in SA. Its a travel hub, is pretty central, bring Middle East and all.

In case you are not sure if you can handle the heat, its like Durban on steriods with humidity, and its pretty weird when you walk outside and your sunglasses mist up, but this is Summer.

Rentals are insanely expensive, make sure your future company pays you an allowance of more than 100 000 AED/ year, and its going up fast. Check out dubizzle Dubai for rentals to get an idea (owned by NASPERS back home).

If you homesick, there is South Africa all over the place, food products, hospitals, green and gold jerseys, or the Rugby/Cricket on OSN. Some companies offer return tickets back home yearly.

I've read some people get lonely here, but i guess this could be true for anywhere. Join a club, take up a hobby, meet people from different nationalities, and embrace being far from home.

Maybe you get lucky and more South Africans can comment.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Hi Klaaf,

I appreciate your detailed response. We are based in Jhb but have a very simple lifestyle. Low expenses etc.

Sport is obviously extremely important so very good to hear that  

I want to ask if a salary of aed12000 a month would be sustainable for a family of 3?

Thanks again for all your advice thus far.

Mitesh


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

mitesh said:


> Hi Klaaf,
> 
> I appreciate your detailed response. We are based in Jhb but have a very simple lifestyle. Low expenses etc.
> 
> ...



I just had a SA guy give up and go back home after less than a year. 14,000 salary, housing, vehicle, mobile paid as well as 65% of school fees for the two kids. Wife with a job.

Said he couldn't make it here on that but also had personal issues.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Thank you for that. Seems like a decent package. I guess it's about lifestyle at the end of the day. Which industry are you in?


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

mitesh said:


> Thank you for that. Seems like a decent package. I guess it's about lifestyle at the end of the day. Which industry are you in?


Related to heavy construction. I will have to add I budget 15,000 of my salary for here in Dubai, same type of benefit package but no kids.

I drink way too much, eat out (or delivery) 90% of the time, travel a lot on vacation and tend to enjoy the nightlife and am doing fine.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

XDoodle****** said:


> Related to heavy construction. I will have to add I budget 15,000 of my salary for here in Dubai, same type of benefit package but no kids.
> 
> I drink way too much, eat out (or delivery) 90% of the time, travel a lot on vacation and tend to enjoy the nightlife and am doing fine.


I need to get into construction haha. I'm a mild drinker these days and we only eat out once or twice a week so I would assume that it wouldn't be too bad on a salary of 15000 for myself. It would however be nice to get a package similar to yours with the benefits added. 

Nightlife....that's non existent for us, 3 month old baby is game over.


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

The wife is in FMCG, HR Dept. I'm in IT.

Hope you get more answers here on what is enough, because is it ever enough? Get as many people's opinion.

If you want a Porsche Boxster, or Land Rover LR 4, then the more you earn the better. Lots of people seem to live the high life, while others live comfortably and save a ton.

The trick is what the company pays versus you. Rent, Schooling, Car, DEWA, return flights, all your applications to the government and telecoms, then what you earn is what you live on.

My opinion, I agree with the previous poster, 15k AED, with lots of company perks, and large international company if possible.


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

mitesh said:


> I need to get into construction haha. I'm a mild drinker these days and we only eat out once or twice a week so I would assume that it wouldn't be too bad on a salary of 15000 for myself. It would however be nice to get a package similar to yours with the benefits added.
> 
> Nightlife....that's non existent for us, 3 month old baby is game over.


I put in my time, I was a single parent from the time my daughter was 1-1/2 years old. She is now in the university and I'm living out a mid-life crisis and plan on doing so for as long as possible :clap2:

I've already owned a Z06 Corvette and still own a '68 Camaro, but I see a sports car for here in my future! Maybe I need to budget 20,000 for here in Dubai


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Klaaf said:


> The wife is in FMCG, HR Dept. I'm in IT.
> 
> Hope you get more answers here on what is enough, because is it ever enough? Get as many people's opinion.
> 
> ...


True! It's never enough wherever you are. Porsche Boxster haha I wish. The aim is just to be there for 5 years max, live simple and save a ton. Main focus is career progression with a view to securing a job in the US which is ultimately our final destination (we hope)

Is a car really required there? I've been reading that most companies don't offer the perks as much as they used to.

I have begun the process of engaging with a recruitment agent so hopefully they can provide better insight into what sort of packages are on offer in the private banking space.


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

mitesh said:


> True! It's never enough wherever you are. Porsche Boxster haha I wish. The aim is just to be there for 5 years max, live simple and save a ton. Main focus is career progression with a view to securing a job in the US which is ultimately our final destination (we hope)
> 
> Is a car really required there? I've been reading that most companies don't offer the perks as much as they used to.
> 
> I have begun the process of engaging with a recruitment agent so hopefully they can provide better insight into what sort of packages are on offer in the private banking space.


You can get around but I would not be happy without a car. It's a driving country like the US.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

XDoodle****** said:


> I put in my time, I was a single parent from the time my daughter was 1-1/2 years old. She is now in the university and I'm living out a mid-life crisis and plan on doing so for as long as possible :clap2:
> 
> I've already owned a Z06 Corvette and still own a '68 Camaro, but I see a sports car for here in my future! Maybe I need to budget 20,000 for here in Dubai


Good on you! I give it up to single parents! You are a legend my friend! We are 2 and boy do we find it tough with the little one! It's exhausting so Z06 Corvette, '68 Camaro (drool) and a Ferrari are well deserved! 

Mid life crisis, nah! I think that you in the right place though. 

I am at the opposite end with no assets to speak of and in the process of building that life plan for my son to go to the best schools and university! Tax free Dubai, career progression all in one whilst my country is falling apart. Why not I say!!

Do you have any banking contacts there that may be in a position to help me?


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

XDoodle****** said:


> You can get around but I would not be happy without a car. It's a driving country like the US.


Final destination is the US for us


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

mitesh said:


> Good on you! I give it up to single parents! You are a legend my friend! We are 2 and boy do we find it tough with the little one! It's exhausting so Z06 Corvette, '68 Camaro (drool) and a Ferrari are well deserved!
> 
> Mid life crisis, nah! I think that you in the right place though.
> 
> ...


Not really any banking contacts. But I have a picture of my Camaro 



















450HP Small Block Chevy plus 150HP shot of Nitrous Oxide for a "passing gear".


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

Depending on where you live, you may or may not need a car. Taxis are widely used here, and some of them drive just like our minibus taxis back in SA. The metro is pretty cool, just don't get into the ladies only compartment (sorry again), but this limits where you can stay.

Cars and fuel, cheap, as is insurance, compared to SA.

If you lived by the metro, you could get away with not needing a car for a few months I think, the public transport system is great here compared to SA (think Gautrain), but would get a car, think its in my blood (we are a driving people, from a driving country).

If you find a solid company, and are a solid candidate, the company pays for you. We paid for our cat to get here, thats about it (well, and penalties on cancelling Vodacom, gym, etc).

When you do come, please bring a few packets of Natures Choice muesli, the orange packet. I am yet to find a decent replacement


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I should clarify that when someone mentioned 15k+benefits would be doable that means 15k base salary + housing + transportation + school fees + health insurance.

If it's a 15K all in offer it won't be sufficient for a family of three who wants to maintain a basic middle class lifestyle by western standards.

Only a few companies still offer the once standard base salary + separate housing paid for and full school fees and company cars. Most firms nowadays are going to offer you an 'all in' offer. For accounting purposes they'll break down the offer into base/housing/transportation components but at the end of the day it'll be the fixed sum paid into your bank account each month. Sometimes the company will offer a one-off housing loan/allowance to allow you to pay your rent a year in advance and the sum will be deducted from your monthly salary across the year. 

I don't know what private acquisition bankers do or what the going rates are for that but you should aim for a package value (inclusive of everything) of no less than 30,000 if you want to live in quiet comfort and be able to save money. Once your child hits school age you'll want a package value much closer to 40,000.


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

Housing is expensive here, hugely more expensive that SA, and the hardest thing to adjust to if you had to pay for it yourself because of the expense.

Our rent is 130 000 AED per year (one cheque discount), or R360 000/pa for a 2 bedroom villa with a decent size garden and separate showers (mentioned because, in my experience, this isn't the norm, its mostly shower over bath which grates my carrot). In SA, you would pay in the region of say R120 000/pa for the same thing (albeit monthly), so 3 times more expensive and going up significantly monthly.

Utilities is also expensive (DEWA) compared to SA, and then you have added complications on air cons (be it straight DEWA, Chiller, etc). There are a few threats about this already, but the base price is a % of your annual rental /12 months. At 120 000 AED, thats 500 AED per month, which is R1400 odd before usage (I think).

Internet and TV, is about the same price in SA if you get bundles. Check out Du or Etisalat for the home bundle packages. Its about the same for DSTV+ADSL and they throw in the landline with free local calls (call it R1800), and you get faster internet.

Schooling, don't have kids, so can't comment, but believe the wife's company covers this too.

But man, its summer year all year round, Winter is NOT coming, its safe, its clean, and you will get great international exposure. What made up my mind was the wife's company put the offer on the table, we came to check the place out, and went for it, because it cost us nothing (R15 000 to bring the cat), and we earn about double of what we did back home with very few expenses, and like you want, it is a stepping stone to the next place, or stay if they want us here.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Hey Klaaf


How you doing? 

I've been crazy my side! Thanks again for the info. Been applying there like crazy but no luck. Looking now at Abu Dhabi and Qatar as well. 

Just need to get out of here!!


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

Its like the first week of Jan here, I'm told it picks up from next week, so don't give up yet.

Contact Michael Page, Hayes, check Bayt, LinkedIn, Gulftalent.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

I am on those sites every day. Chatted to the lady at Michael Page as well. Hopefully it picks up soon.

How are things there though? Still decent? Lol better than SA bud, we have Julius running around with his crew and his new political party. 

My boy is already 5 months old and I want to get him out of this place ASAP! Hopefully I can give him a bday present in another country 

Is life as stressful and difficult there as it is here in SA?


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

Whats it like here?....I like it. I've met about 7 or so other South Africans here, and none have any desire to return to SA any time soon (if at all).

Obviously I am comparing to South Africa, and more so Cape Town....this is my subjective opinion 

It seems it is better to be a second class citizen in the UAE than it is to be one in South Africa for many reasons. Our income tax isn't wasted on presidential palaces, or luxury cars and holidays for politicians. My wife feels she can grow more here, without having to worry about the colour of her skin or that she is a Brit....these more than likely help her, versus limit her. 90% of the population are not from the UAE, so its not that hard to fit in.

Anyway, the point is, there is good and bad, and for us, its nice to be out SA for a bit, deal with different issues for a change. Not having to deal with strikes, BBBEE and hijackings anymore, now its just civil war, sanctions, religion, (country name in here)ization, etc, guilty until proven innocent law. I also think it pisses the wife off when people ignore her. In SA sales people will sell to woman, here they don't even speak to them...is actually very funny. The wife gets tense.

For me I find it odd that when you deal with various service providers, they just seem to tell you want you want to hear, or make a million and 1 excuses. EG, for home: the plumber isn't here anywhere NEAR on time, so I call, and am told that he ran my bell and phoned me but no one answered.....from the plumber, the aircon guys, average delivery guys, just always the same old excuse. Blame somewhere else, don't take accountability....is weird. I'll die of shock when someone calls me to tell me they are running late.

Not sure if this is true either, could be urban legend, but apparently some tourist was driving here and pulled the middle finger at someone else on the road. Next thing he knows he is arrested at his hotel, his family are deported, and he spends some time in jail and then also deported.....for showing the middle finger to a local. You do hear about these stories, and most people I know have "plans" for such events, make sure most of their money isn't here, etc.

This guy who works with my wife, his family (wife and kids) were detained by the police because the police have beef with the hired car company. Family was a bit traumatized by this. They did nothing wrong, just driving a car from the wrong hired car company. Its a hired car, the cops know its a hired car, why detain the family?....to put pressure on the hired car company no doubt. Was this really necessary?

Then there was the South African woman who picked up someone's watch who left it in a basket at the airport. Was running after the guy to return it and was arrested and spent a month in jail and was deported.

Coming from South Africa, gesturing in traffic is normal, crime is in control, not the law (one could argue the law is run by suspected criminals/politicians anyway), and statistically you will be the victim of a crime, here you might just be a statistic of the law. I don't feel I am going to be hijacked at the robots, or held up in my home, robbed and the wife raped, because JZ would rather build a palace then eradicate poverty with my tax money.

Well, my 2 cents anyway.


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

Klaaf said:


> Not sure if this is true either, could be urban legend, but apparently some tourist was driving here and pulled the middle finger at someone else on the road. Next thing he knows he is arrested at his hotel, his family are deported, and he spends some time in jail and then also deported.....for showing the middle finger to a local.


Quick Google search...

_As per Article (9) of the Federal Penal Law 1987, if any driver uses a bad hand sing to abuse another driver, or a passenger, or a pedestrian, it is considered a public obscenity crime.

The person committing this crime can be punished with not less than six months in jail. This punishment could be doubled to not less than a year if the offender meant to abuse a woman or a child (less than 15-years-old), according to Article 358 under the same law._


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Yeah that did happen, didn't hear about the family being deported etc (although it could have been collateral damage if the bloke lost his job due to this and the family was on his sponsorship). But yes something like a year or so back a guy flipped off a taxi driver (i think, not sure if it was a local) driving down SZR. He had to go to jail for that.. 

p.s: it isn't the only case, there are some others ... keep the fingers firmly holstered out here ...


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## Klaaf (Jul 7, 2013)

Well then he should be OK, it was a bad hand sign, not sing....INNOCENT!

Bad hand sing is anything they do in a Brittany Spears video hahahaha


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

Klaaf said:


> Well then he should be OK, it was a bad hand sign, not sing....INNOCENT!
> 
> Bad hand sing is anything they do in a Brittany Spears video hahahaha


A testament to the middle east efficiency... Its actually two laws in one, it is illegal for "bad hand" as well as "sing"...


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Hi klaaf,


How are you?

How do I PM you or can I get your email addy?

Thanks bud


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## zatapa (Jun 21, 2013)

My experience in Cape Town was completely different, I was only there for a week on a project in the shipyard, but even at night going to places with customers it felt quite safe, at least in the busier areas with bars and restaurants. CT is actually in my top three of nicest places I have been to in the world, possibly even in my top one. I do realise that things are always different when you live somewhere permanently, especially with kids.
Having said that, UAE is a pretty safe place if you stay away from the police. You may get the odd pickpocket now and then, but you'll find those anywhere these days.


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## sammylou (Oct 29, 2012)

mitesh said:


> Hi klaaf,
> 
> 
> How are you?
> ...


if you click on their username, a drop down menu will appear with the option to send them a message.


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## mitesh (Mar 17, 2009)

Thank you sammylou


Zatapa I have been considering Cape Town as it will be an easier move but at the end of the day, we would still be exposed to the political environment, crime etc that is pretty much everywhere in SA. 

Cape Town is definitely the best run city in SA but its still SA!


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