# Moving to Egypt I have 2 questions



## Horus

Hi

It's my first post here so please be nice to me I have tried to be concise 

I have a few questions I hope they are not numpty ones because I hope to contribute here once I move to Sharm el Sheikh or Hurgada in 1 - 2 years time

A bit about myself; I am 40 years old with an extensive background in sales and marketing and business development, finding a job or setting about a business should not be overly problematic - I also speak German

1. How much can I expect to purchase (not rent) an average studio or 1 bedroom apartment in:

a) Sharm (Naama or Nabq Bay where ever best to find work)
b) Hurghada (not been but have heard cheaper)

2. How much money can I expect to need every month for an average single lifestyle; I don't drink or smoke just plain kinda guy, car not required. I would be taking money with me and either looking for work or running my existing business via the internet

I am 40 average looking with all my hair and teeth hopefully when I am out there I might even find a female to establish a long term relationship. I would imagine however there are hundreds of males fighting over every female so I take my chances in that department

Any answers to the above would be much appreciated, I have done lots of careful planning and set myself goals to raise the relevant funds and keep that momentum going when I am out there.

I don't speak Arabic but can't see that as a problem and hope to learn here or as I go along


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## Horus

EDIT to the above - I have found property - I only need answer to this question:

How much money can I expect to need every month for an average single lifestyle; I don't drink or smoke just plain kinda guy, car not required. (bills etc)

Thanks


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## MaidenScotland

Hi and welcome to the forum

Firstly Cairo is not cheap despite what people tell you. If you live like a poor Egyptian you can I suppose get by on about 600 LE but to be honest I don't really know as I don't live as a poor person.
Meat is more expensive here.. and it is the pits, full of fat and your paying for that fat.
Chicken is about the same price as in the U.K 
Eggs same price as the U.K
Rice is cheap.
Fruit and vegetables are a reasonable price
Sliced bread is expensive.. very expensive but local bread is cheap however alot of the cheap bread has no nutritional value. 

Taxis are cheap very cheap compared to the U.K.


There are very few bargains to be had in the supermarkets here.. no buy one get one free on chickens etc, and if there is a free gift with something you have to take your receipt up to another desk to collect it so if you don't read Arabic chances are you don't know their is a free gift.. the cashier will not tell you!


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## Horus

Hi

Thanks for your reply and the welcome much appreciated.

I went to Cairo and it did not appeal to me as I like to be near the sea.

I don't eat out or much so cook my own or traditional where possible, cous cous, pasta, rice, throw in some chicken.

What I am trying to establish are average monthly costs for:

Utilities (water, electric)
Broadband (work use not downloading large files etc)
General Expenses

Just a general figure, ie. can I live on £150 - £300 per month in Hurghada I think that might make it easier.

As for life style just an average middle class person who is easy to please

Just need to raise the funds to buy my property have enough to live on for a long while and I am off


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## MaidenScotland

Horus said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for your reply and the welcome much appreciated.
> 
> I went to Cairo and it did not appeal to me as I like to be near the sea.
> 
> I don't eat out or much so cook my own or traditional where possible, cous cous, pasta, rice, throw in some chicken.
> 
> What I am trying to establish are average monthly costs for:
> 
> Utilities (water, electric)
> Broadband (work use not downloading large files etc)
> General Expenses
> 
> Just a general figure, ie. can I live on £150 - £300 per month in Hurghada I think that might make it easier.
> 
> As for life style just an average middle class person who is easy to please
> 
> Just need to raise the funds to buy my property have enough to live on for a long while and I am off




Hi,

If you look through the forum there is a topic on electricity bills and this should help you.
But what is average? average to who? 
My electric bill is huge.. I run my aircon etc willy nilly.. If I need it on then on it goes I don't worry about cost.
My mobile phone bill is like the national debt.
Bottled water is cheap..
My broadband cost me 75 LE per month.
Bottle gas is cheap.
You can buy cheap pasta but if you like pasta then I think you would not be happy with the quality.. 
Prices are rising daily.

I do not smoke or drink but I could not live on 300 pound sterling and I do not pay my own bills nor do I have rent etc to find.
Who can tell what the exchange rate will be in 2 years. 4 years ago I was getting 11 LE to one pound sterling.. now we get around about 8


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## MaidenScotland

You will never pay what an Egyptian pays for anything unless you shop in a supermarket/store that already has the priced marked on it.


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## Horus

Thanks again

Mobile phone - I use this very little in the UK and when I was in Egypt only to call the taxi or hotel, 2 weeks 10 LE

Property - Will be purchased in cash

Money to take with me about £20K via bank transfer

Air Con - I turned it on sporadic while in Egypt and slept with the window open

Quality of food - Not a picky eater; I notice the cheese in Egypt is like wax and the sausage is not better.


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## Helen Ellis

Horus said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for your reply and the welcome much appreciated.
> 
> I went to Cairo and it did not appeal to me as I like to be near the sea.
> 
> I don't eat out or much so cook my own or traditional where possible, cous cous, pasta, rice, throw in some chicken.
> 
> What I am trying to establish are average monthly costs for:
> 
> Utilities (water, electric)
> Broadband (work use not downloading large files etc)
> General Expenses
> 
> Just a general figure, ie. can I live on £150 - £300 per month in Hurghada I think that might make it easier.
> 
> As for life style just an average middle class person who is easy to please
> 
> Just need to raise the funds to buy my property have enough to live on for a long while and I am off


I live in Hurghada.
Most months I spend less than 300 sterling on general living expenses, I don't pay rent but I dive most weeks.
A good furnished studio with pool can be had for 1,500 egp per month, or a 2 bed no pool for the same. One friend pays 400egp I believe, unfurnished, don't know what it's like though.
My water and electric are usually under 200 egp per month combined, and can be under 100.
Food is cheap if you shop at the market and eat like an egyptian, ie mostly veggies/rice/pasta/bread with lots of tomatoes. You can eat out for 5egp and less for Koshary and the like from Cherry St in Hurghada
I pay 150 egp per month for broadband, the studio with pool where a friend lives has broadband included.
Public beach in that area (Arabia)5egp for a bed ( last time I went)


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## Beatle

Hi

It is possible to live quite cheaply in Egypt, if you are able to adapt to a very basic lifestyle. I don't have prices specific to Hurghada/Sharm. Egyptian salaries are generally low and prices of basic goods and services reflect that. I have expat friends who have earnt in the region of 400GBP and lived a frugal lifestyle on that money - they travel by microbuses, eat koshary if they eat out (an Egyptian pasta/rice dish) or fuul or taamiya - street food is quite cheap; go to Egyptian cafes for tea/shisha; don't use the aircon much; shop in Egyptian shops. If you are able to pick up some Arabic then obviously that helps - you will find it easier to negotiate prices in shops after a while. It really depends on how much you are able to adapt and whether you can sustain that lifestyle in the long term. 

2 things I think you need to factor in are the volatility of the GBP/LE exchange rate. As MS said, it's not so long ago that it was around 11LE to the pound. If I remember correctly it dropped to 7/8LE to the pound - it went back up to 9LE not that long ago but has dropped again. It's certainly not looking as if it will be back at the same favourable exchange rate (well favourable if you are British) as a few years ago. Secondly inflation seems to be high in Egypt at the moment. Egyptians are struggling with the rise in the cost of basic foods/petrol etc

Good luck with the move


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## jenni_11

If you live like a poor Egyptian you can I suppose get by on about 600 LE but to be honest I don't really know as I don't live as a poor person.


Egypt might be a third world country but using the word 'poor' to describe the locals and the people of the country personally to me is rather rude.


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## MaidenScotland

jenni_11 said:


> If you live like a poor Egyptian you can I suppose get by on about 600 LE but to be honest I don't really know as I don't live as a poor person.
> 
> 
> Egypt might be a third world country but using the word 'poor' to describe the locals and the people of the country personally to me is rather rude.




When you live here you will find the word poor is used to describe the poor here...and the word rich is used to describe the rich...


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## jenni_11

MaidenScotland said:


> When you live here you will find the word poor is used to describe the poor here...and the word rich is used to describe the rich...


I have lived in Cairo, I know the culture and people like the back of my hand. True it's used there, but I've never used it to describe anyone nor will I ever.


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## Sam

Hi,

I live in Sharm. I have to be honest with you, I don't really track my money, but I never seem to have any left at the end of the month 

It sounds like you'd be living a lifestyle similar to myself (aside from having to buy my daughter all the sweets, crisps, toys, shoes etc. that she NEEDS), I rarely eat out or generally go out even, I use buses not taxis and generally try to save where needed. My water/electricity bills tend to be 200-300 EGP, but prices of water & electricity vary from place to place. If you were to live in Hadaba/Hay el Nour you pay the government prices of utilities, in resorts electricity for example can be as much as 0.75 EGP/Kilowatt.

If you buy then you do not have to worry about rent, but you may need to consider the maintenance fees (which could be paid monthly, annually or maybe as a one time payment on handover).

Supermarket shopping here I find little difference in my spending than that in the UK.

My internet I use the unlimited download option with Etisalat, which costs 150 LE monthly. The resort I'm in (as do many) have a monthly subscription the their wireless network which is a similar price. I prefer to pay for the dongle though so at least I can take it anywhere!

Not speaking Arabic is not really a problem since most everyone in Sharm (and probably Hurghada too) understand English, but understanding Arabic does help since I've found many shop workers discussing in Arabic about prices when they rip you off, at least then you know what's going on. 

If it's Sharm that you choose, then the best place to live/work depends on what kind of work you are looking for. Property in Nabq Bay is much cheaper and personally Nabq is my favourite part of Sharm. If you were to do your own business online this may be the best for you.


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## Sam

jenni_11 said:


> I have lived in Cairo, I know the culture and people like the back of my hand. True it's used there, but I've never used it to describe anyone nor will I ever.


So what is now the politically correct term for poor people? When I was at school that's what we called poor people. Didn't realise it was rude, but since I've left UK you can't say black either so it's hard to keep up.


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## Horus

Thanks for all the replies so far; I am a frugal person but I know how to have a good time and I believe I should be able to get by, I eat like an Egyptian anyway.

a) I will not pay rent as my accommodation will be bought
b) I will have saved at least £6K that should keep me going for 2 years
c) My internet business makes about £400 per month and I plan on working


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## Beatle

MaidenScotland said:


> When you live here you will find the word poor is used to describe the poor here...and the word rich is used to describe the rich...


The words poor and rich are used in most countries to be honest, I am just not sure I would normally use the terms in such a patronising way. 

Anyway, we digress :focus:


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## jenni_11

Sam said:


> So what is now the politically correct term for poor people? When I was at school that's what we called poor people. Didn't realise it was rude, but since I've left UK you can't say black either so it's hard to keep up.


I wouldn't think there was a politically term for poor people. I would just describe the majority of egyptians to be 'working class locals' as the majority of them are not poor.


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## Horus

Maybe a political correct word for poor people might be "financially challenged" or "credit crunched" 

I have got my evil eye pendant just in case the hand bags come out 

I did notice there are no chavs in Egypt, well at least I did not see any burbury hijabs but plenty of bling at the markets maybe they don't have poor people :ranger:


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## Beatle

Sam said:


> So what is now the politically correct term for poor people? When I was at school that's what we called poor people. Didn't realise it was rude, but since I've left UK you can't say black either so it's hard to keep up.


Interesting question - there are a variety of terms used to describe low income households. For example those that qualify for free school lunches etc are not categorised as "children of poor people".

There are lots of terms that were historically used to describe various ethnic groups that are no longer considered acceptable to use. That's the great thing about living in a multi-cultural society and long may it continue! (Except for the term dual heritage which your daughter would be classified as in the UK now - I hate that term!)


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## starchief

Sam said:


> So what is now the politically correct term for poor people? When I was at school that's what we called poor people. Didn't realise it was rude, but since I've left UK you can't say black either so it's hard to keep up.


Why can't you say 'black'? None of my black friends seem to have a problem with being called black. Sometimes the Daily Mail exaggerates things (difficult to believe, I know).


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## Horus

Ladies I only wanted to know 2 questions that I focused into one


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## Beatle

starchief said:


> Why can't you say 'black'? None of my black friends seem to have a problem with being called black. Sometimes the Daily Mail exaggerates things (difficult to believe, I know).


"Black" is still used. In an official context, it's still acceptable to refer to "Black Minority Ethnic" (BME) to distinguish this group of the population from the white population . The term Afro-Caribbean is used but I have also heard people object to this term stating that the correct term should be African-Caribbean. Or some people seem to prefer to be referred to as African or Caribbean


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## Beatle

Horus said:


> Ladies I only wanted to know 2 questions that I focused into one


Oh - I thought from your summary in the last post that your questions had been answered 

What else do you want to know?


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## Horus

Beatle said:


> Oh - I thought from your summary in the last post that your questions had been answered
> 
> What else do you want to know?


They have all been answered perfect and I even had a PM to clarify costs etc so I am a very happy man 

The other question I have you cannot answer and is down to myself and plenty of Lynx and luck and wearing a nice white shirt and tight jeans


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## expatagogo

Horus said:


> Hi
> What I am trying to establish are average monthly costs for:
> 
> Utilities (water, electric)
> Broadband (work use not downloading large files etc)
> General Expenses
> 
> Just a general figure, ie. can I live on £150 - £300 per month in Hurghada I think that might make it easier.
> 
> As for life style just an average middle class person who is easy to please


I read somewhere that 20% of Egypt lives on less than 140 LE a month. I don't know how they can possibly do it, even with government subsidies (rice, oil, etc.), a farm and a garden. How do they buy razors and other necessities on that?!?

Others have guided you about the electric bills. 

If anyone actually pays for water in Egypt, this will be the first I've heard of it.

Broadband is certainly on offer, however there are other ways to purchace internet access. It is possible to have it strung from a net cafe (if one is close enough), or capture it from a switch inside the building which is what I did for 30 LE each month. Television cable, the same way, for 25 LE. Consider a monthly installment for the beweb as well as a few bills in case you need him to run errands. Contrary to popular belief, the money the beweb collects is never all his to keep. Sure, he will get some of it, but if you take a long hard look at how he (and his family) live, you will see that he's not getting over by any means. Not only that, a good relationship with a good beweb is a good idea (running errands, dusting cars, picking up the ironing). Of course you could always get yourself a rope and a basket and save money shopping that way. Ask schools about good nannies and you will never have to shovel that never-ending dust out the door or beat a carpet yourself.


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## elrasho

Hi Horus,

You said you saved £6k and plan to live off that for 2 year but then you also said you get £400 a month from your Internet company. From the way you described how you will be living you won't have to touch the £6k you have saved.

The £400 a month will cover your monthly stay and some left over too. I'm coming to Cairo next month and plan to live off around £300 a month (rent, food, necessities) and my lifestyle seems a lot similar to yours.


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## Sam

Beatle said:


> Interesting question - there are a variety of terms used to describe low income households. For example those that qualify for free school lunches etc are not categorised as "children of poor people".
> 
> There are lots of terms that were historically used to describe various ethnic groups that are no longer considered acceptable to use. That's the great thing about living in a multi-cultural society and long may it continue! (Except for the term dual heritage which your daughter would be classified as in the UK now - I hate that term!)


Dual heritage... is dual-nationality no longer applicable?!

As I have said in a previous thread, I have a tendency to live under a rock and cannot keep up with anything new. I don't know any of the new music out or new fads. No idea what Glee is. But I do like the "Inbetweeners"


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## Beatle

Sam said:


> Dual heritage... is dual-nationality no longer applicable?!
> 
> As I have said in a previous thread, I have a tendency to live under a rock and cannot keep up with anything new. I don't know any of the new music out or new fads. No idea what Glee is. But I do like the "Inbetweeners"


You can hold dual nationality without actually originating from one of the countries you hold nationality for. Plus children of "mixed race" (to use the old term) may only hold nationality for one country. So children from two different "heritages" are now given the charming title of "dual heritage"


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## Horus

elrasho said:


> Hi Horus,
> 
> You said you saved £6k and plan to live off that for 2 year but then you also said you get £400 a month from your Internet company. From the way you described how you will be living you won't have to touch the £6k you have saved.
> 
> The £400 a month will cover your monthly stay and some left over too. I'm coming to Cairo next month and plan to live off around £300 a month (rent, food, necessities) and my lifestyle seems a lot similar to yours.


Thanks for the reply

True the £6K is just back up in case things go wrong I am currently offering a UK to UK service for my products which are very difficult to get in the UK and they are for a niche market so the service I would have is Egypt to UK however there would be no element of "next day" and extra postage charges but customers keep coming back for more.

I plan on working out there as well and providing a unique service, I accept the wages won't be fantastic and long hours but will keep me busy and help me network with other people just in case I do meet someone and want to do dating I can buy them plenty of falafel for that £6K and mango juice if I like them


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## Beatle

Horus said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> True the £6K is just back up in case things go wrong I am currently offering a UK to UK service for my products which are very difficult to get in the UK and they are for a niche market so the service I would have is Egypt to UK however there would be no element of "next day" and extra postage charges but customers keep coming back for more.


Will you be relying on Egyptian post to send your products to the UK or have I misunderstood?


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## Beatle

Sam said:


> As I have said in a previous thread, I have a tendency to live under a rock and cannot keep up with anything new. I don't know any of the new music out or new fads. No idea what Glee is. But I do like the "Inbetweeners"


I just saw an advert for the Inbetweeners! I had no idea what you were on about....:noidea:


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## Sam

Beatle said:


> I just saw an advert for the Inbetweeners! I had no idea what you were on about....:noidea:


Yay, I'm not so behind with the times 

My younger brother introduced me whilst back home in May. I think it's onto series 3 now though, so I was still late "getting with it", lol.


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## Horus

Beatle said:


> Will you be relying on Egyptian post to send your products to the UK or have I misunderstood?


It will be Egyptian post, I expect that on the UK side the customer might have to pay import duty, I have already looked at the commodity code from Inland Revenue.

I get payments currently via paypal and google payments so hopefully one of those is acceptable in Egypt

If you have any idea of Egyptian Postal Charges for small packets that weight 250 - 500grams that would be fantastic together with an idea of how long it takes I would much appreciate it.


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## Sam

Horus said:


> It will be Egyptian post, I expect that on the UK side the customer might have to pay import duty, I have already looked at the commodity code from Inland Revenue.
> 
> I get payments currently via paypal and google payments so hopefully one of those is acceptable in Egypt
> 
> If you have any idea of Egyptian Postal Charges for small packets that weight 250 - 500grams that would be fantastic together with an idea of how long it takes I would much appreciate it.


If what you are shipping is valuable the I highly recommend NOT using Egyptian post. Some things arrive, many things don't. If the "chance" of them not reaching there and being reshipped is okay, then costs are low. But otherwise FedEx, DHL or Aramex or the like which can be tracked are much more efficient and reliable.

I personally tend to receive rather than ship, but have only ever received a handful of items that were sent by Royal Mail recorded delivery. One of them I did receive was 6 months after posting!!! It may be better going to UK than from it though. I've send a couple of things which didn't matter if they got lost in sending, they all arrived within 3 weeks.


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## Beatle

Sam said:


> If what you are shipping is valuable the I highly recommend NOT using Egyptian post. Some things arrive, many things don't. If the "chance" of them not reaching there and being reshipped is okay, then costs are low. But otherwise FedEx, DHL or Aramex or the like which can be tracked are much more efficient and reliable.
> 
> I personally tend to receive rather than ship, but have only ever received a handful of items that were sent by Royal Mail recorded delivery. One of them I did receive was 6 months after posting!!! It may be better going to UK than from it though. I've send a couple of things which didn't matter if they got lost in sending, they all arrived within 3 weeks.


I was just about to say the same thing. One friend recently said he had ordered a variety of goods but only received one out of the four.


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## Horus

Thanks for the advice

What happens, do these items get stolen within the Egyptian postal system?


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## mamasue

Horus said:


> Thanks for the advice
> 
> What happens, do these items get stolen within the Egyptian postal system?



Yes. It happened to me twice.


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## Horus

I found out the solution to my shipping problem is to use a Egypt to UK agent then UK to UK

Everything is working out to plan, inshallah in one year I will be in Egypt the land of scams :clap2:

Also learning Arabic it's challenging but not as bad as I thought many of the "throuty" ways to say things is similiar to German which I am fluent in, just confuses me how they seem to say some things "backwards" like yoda and good morning translates as the morning light?


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