# Help!! Crazy Electric Bill!!!



## Mattskii (Oct 28, 2009)

Does anyone understand the calculations behind power consumption? 

I have just got the most crazy bill from edp - almost €700 for 3 months!!! There is no way we can be using that much power.

We have the lower rated supply - 16 something I can't remember.

Our fuse box cuts out as you approach 15 Amps. 

We are being told that we have used something like 3711 KWh over 103 days.

That's 36 KWh per day. 1.5KW per hour. I don't believe for a moment we are using an average of 6.52 Amps per hour 24 hours a day 7 days a week!!!! 

So the question is have I got the maths right? 

Or the question could be is this an average amount of electricity to use? 

Or is the question Where the hell has my power been going? And how do I find out? 

I was not expecting this. I was told electricity was cheap in Portugal!!!!!!


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

That's strange. My friend in Azores that own the Condo cost him only 39 dollars a month. I am not sure about my family there but I am sure that they are about the same euro amount for a month as well. Something's really wrong with yours. You need to find out what.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Are you using electric heating at all?

FWIW, we have all electric cooking and don't even use that much.


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## Mattskii (Oct 28, 2009)

We use electric heaters a bit, but since we installed the wood burner in December that has reduced a lot obviously. 

I am going to have to create a spread sheet with all our appliances on - it's no good. I don't understand it. Even if we had it on full for 12 hours a day (We never do I don't think) that would work out at 18KW. 

I'm going to spreadsheet it!


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

Dont think there is much wrong, probably either the start reading or the end reading are estimated so this may well be just an estimated bill or a catch up from an earlier estimated bill.

23% of the bill is IVA, you then pay exploration tax a standing charge for actually having a connection at all and for your Portuguese TV licence. All on the same fatura

15amps rated supply is 15 amps per phase if you have a three phase supply. Cost of a kilowatt hour varies depending on the tariff you are on but is probably around 18 or 19 cents with IVA

Switch off everything and see whether the meter stops (you may have an earth leak) then switch on different appliances in the house and take readings every hour to do some simple calculations on which appliances use what current.

If you have any spare cash after paying the bill then one of the gadgets from here is a good investment Home Of Energy Monitors, Electricity Meters, Power Display

Electricity is DEFINITELY not cheap in Portugal and 1.5kw an hour is nothing. 

Got an electric water pump ? Got a borehole ? Got a pool ? All big users


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi,
If you meter is like the one in the photo then would you take a reading of the "kWh" today and another reading tomorrow at about the same time and post the two here and we can then work out how much you use.


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## DREAMWEAVER1 (May 28, 2013)

Who on earth informed you that electricity was cheap in Portugal?

Talk about being misinformed!!!!





David


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## Mattskii (Oct 28, 2009)

DREAMWEAVER1 said:


> Who on earth informed you that electricity was cheap in Portugal?
> 
> Talk about being misinformed!!!!
> 
> ...


I was misinformed about a great many things by certain people here with a vested interest. So so many lies. 

I am working on a spreadsheet of all my electrical appliances and their ratings. I am automating it so that I can put in hours use per day for each item and it will calculate my daily power usage. I might add some additional fields for prices etc so it works it all out for me. 

Will let you know how I get on.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Hi Mattski
I, too would be interested in how you get on. Our bill sometimes seems inordinately high but then we check and find out that the m-i-l has been burning electricity like it was free.


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## izian (Nov 21, 2013)

Hi, just for comparison, we are a family with 3 small children in a 3 bed detached, and totally exposed on all sides, house, so we have our air conditioning units on in 3 or 4 rooms all night, every night, and one or two on during the day. Our cooking is also all electric. 
We have had 4 estimated bills at around 44 euros over winter so were expecting a biggie to come in, and it just has. 443 euros. So even these figures are not as much as yours. 
We are also with edp and on 15 amp. 

Hope you get to the bottom of it and find out what's going on.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

You might consider buying a power monitor which are advertised by Amazon and other companies so you can check power consumption of the house against the claimed power consumption of the meter. 

I haven't looked but would assume local companies such as Worton's also sell them.


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

EdP here also. Singular household, everything on electricity. Air condition (inverter) for heating. 6.9 kW fuse. Last invoice was for 94 days (up and until13 Jan.) with 960 kWh metered. Being 10,2 kWh a day. Then estimated for following time period (13 days), as I never bothered to read the meter, 129 kWh. 10 kWh per day. I hear you can cut your electricity bill in half by subscribing for gas for cooking and heating, but not an option in my street.


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

*Not so crazy here*



Mattskii said:


> Does anyone understand the calculations behind power consumption?
> 
> I have just got the most crazy bill from edp - almost €700 for 3 months!!! There is no way we can be using that much power.
> 
> ...


Not sure either that there's something wrong with your electricity bill: Come to think of it, I think factors like the cold winter we've endured might explain it. I had to heat only a few days last winter, but this winter it's been running almost constantly. So, if your consumption is higher than mine by a factor of 3,5 maybe the size of your house matters, and the number of household members (for warm water usage).
One last thought: If you installed a wood burner in December, could that be part of the problem? In my old country electricity is comparatively cheap, so everyone uses it for heating, as I do here. There they say that wood burners are a negative factor as people use them not for general heating but for comfort heating only. And the chimney loses heat especially if not used that often. Just a thought.


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## Mattskii (Oct 28, 2009)

I am confused as top how putting in a wood burner can increase my electricity consumption??? 

We use gas to heat water. 

My spreadsheet can explain the figures for Jan/Feb, but the December numbers are still a mystery to me. 

More testing to follow.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

I have today come across this PDF with regards to electricity costs in Portugal because I was under the impression that electricity itself was cheaper when compared to the UK.
http://www.erse.pt/pt/Simuladores/Documents/PreçosRef_BTN.pdf

When I compared this to my recent UK electric bill the costs were comparable to what I am charged by NPower. I currently pay 11p/day standing charge and 16p/kWh , which equates to roughly 15.4 cent/day and 22.4cent/kWh.

It would seem that the Portuguese companies are making the money with their standing charges especially if you are on or more than a 10kVa system. 

I guess if one takes into account the lack of insulation in Portuguese homes generally, then energy use over winter will / could be higher than what may have been used in a former life. However with the worldwide hikes in energy prices it may seem that the costs are significantly more than you payed back home but if you were from the UK you can see that there is not a lot of difference, in fact price per kW used is cheaper in Portugal....or am I missing something? :confused2:


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## DREAMWEAVER1 (May 28, 2013)

:spit:


advolex said:


> EdP here also. Singular household, everything on electricity. Air condition (inverter) for heating. 6.9 kW fuse. Last invoice was for 94 days (up and until13 Jan.) with 960 kWh metered. Being 10,2 kWh a day. Then estimated for following time period (13 days), as I never bothered to read the meter, 129 kWh. 10 kWh per day. I hear you can cut your electricity bill in half by subscribing for gas for cooking and heating, but not an option in my street.



If you are referring to "bottled" gas for heating,it is probably the most expensive form of heating.



David


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## Mattskii (Oct 28, 2009)

oronero said:


> I have today come across this PDF with regards to electricity costs in Portugal because I was under the impression that electricity itself was cheaper when compared to the UK.
> http://www.erse.pt/pt/Simuladores/Documents/PreçosRef_BTN.pdf
> 
> When I compared this to my recent UK electric bill the costs were comparable to what I am charged by NPower. I currently pay 11p/day standing charge and 16p/kWh , which equates to roughly 15.4 cent/day and 22.4cent/kWh.
> ...




It isn't the cost of the electricity which is the the main concern, it is the amount I seem to have used. I have found a fault in the kitchen lights. Two short florescent tubes. I have not checked out what they are rated at but they seem to be pulling far too much current. Will have them out and replaced tomorrow hopefully.


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

*Chimney?*



Mattskii said:


> I am confused as top how putting in a wood burner can increase my electricity consumption???
> 
> We use gas to heat water.
> 
> ...


@Mattskii, I'm under the impression that the skeptics think that a wood burner is less than optimal because the chimney leaks the heated rising air, especially when not constantly used.

Bottled gas? I was thinking of city gas, distributed through pipes, which is available in some parts of Porto but not where I live. Was surprised to hear that bottled gas is the most expensive energy supply nowadays, as I recently looked at a newly built house in Aveiro which was equipped with gas heating by the bottle. Could it really be cheaper to install than simple electric radiators?


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

advolex said:


> @Mattskii, I'm under the impression that the skeptics think that a wood burner is less than optimal because the chimney leaks the heated rising air, especially when not constantly used.
> 
> Bottled gas? I was thinking of city gas, distributed through pipes, which is available in some parts of Porto but not where I live. Was surprised to hear that bottled gas is the most expensive energy supply nowadays, as I recently looked at a newly built house in Aveiro which was equipped with gas heating by the bottle. Could it really be cheaper to install than simple electric radiators?


 
Unfortunately it's only possible to make comparisons of similar installations in similar buildings otherwise it is all hearsay. Bottled gas in a portable heater is the most efficient as 100% of the heat produced is emitted in the room and the installation cost is zero also it's possible to heat one space (like a bedroom) for ten minutes. If you try to compare this with a wood burning stove with back boiler to run radiators to heat one room for ten minutes you realise it not like for like. Installing electric radiators could be oil filled wall mounted low wattage running on existing wiring or storage heaters needing complete new and larger uprated wiring with new consumer unit to handle the extra power.

City gas, where available, and bottled gas are often used as the boilers and small and (new ones),very efficient, reliable, can produce instant hot water and have short start up time for heating.

You need to look at the building a whole and what you want to achieve in terms of heating and hotwater then it will be possible to work out the options and relative costs.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Equally important is the insulation or lack of it and quality of the windows...... you can generate as much heat as you like but if you're losing it as fast as you're making it then you'll never be warm and your energy bill will rise.


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

@BodgieMcBodge I agree with everything you say. May I just clarify: When I talked about the cost of heating with city gas, I just referred to the cost of energy as it was considered that electricity was expensive here. An EDP rep. told me that you get twice the amount of energy (kWh) for your € by buying city gas from EDP over flat rate electricity from them. Of course it matters how you use the energy. What would be interesting to know is whether the difference is mainly caused by higher production costs or by taxes. It's not from the side costs added to your bill, that's for sure. The TV licence was only around 2 € in the bill I referred to.


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

I have not had dealings with city gas in Portugal but on the basic assumption that EDP retail both citygas and electricity and produce their electricity by running generators on citygas in their powerstation you'd expect the electricity to be more expensive. 

However, for domestic heating, it is possible to use an electrical powered heatpump, a reverse aircon, which can produce several times more kW of heat then it consumes in kW of electricity so this could work out cheaper per kW of heat then the EDP half price citygas.


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