# Eleven month rental contracts



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There was a recent post about these eleven month rental contracts in which it was stated that they have no legal status.
So what is the status of a tenant who has had four consecutive eleven month contracts on the same house? What rights does that tenant enjoy if the contracts have been illegal?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> There was a recent post about these eleven month rental contracts in which it was stated that they have no legal status.
> So what is the status of a tenant who has had four consecutive eleven month contracts on the same house? What rights does that tenant enjoy if the contracts have been illegal?


Are they in Spanish?

The person (you?) would probably have the same rights as if they had been for longer. The point really is that they are NOT considered 'short-term contracts' - the landlord and the tenant still have the same rights.

Some people wrongly believe that the landlord has more rights if the contract is only 11 months - wrong!

Why keep renewing an 11 month contract if they are thought to be wrong/illegal?

Correct contracts do NOT need renewing.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> There was a recent post about these eleven month rental contracts in which it was stated that they have no legal status.
> So what is the status of a tenant who has had four consecutive eleven month contracts on the same house? What rights does that tenant enjoy if the contracts have been illegal?


This a complex subject. What is legal or illegal would need to be answered by a lawyer in tenancy rights. The law has recently changed in respect of evictions, and unless you are familiar with tenancy law, it would be difficult to answer.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

This is a useful link

Rental mistakes


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

We signed an 11 month rental agreement, written in Spanish.

If, we should wish to leave the property earlier - would we be required, by law, to pay up until the 11 month date ?


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

Hi mrypg9;-) 
We have had two "eleven month contracts"different houses, but both of them have had a two month get out clause for both parties, our second contract, the agent stressed that we had to agreed to the eleven month contract as we were moving in in july, being the start of the peak rental period , the owner was worried that we would let for the summer then leave.
But in the contract, which all the pages have been signed by all parties, it clearly states the 2 month get out clause, so not sure the point of the "eleven month contract"
Is there such a thing as a full eleven month contract? i know on our house back home, on both parties our tenant has a two month get out clause.
Just out of curiosity? The tenant who is in my house back home has more rights over my house than i do, is this the same in Spain? I figure not?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> We signed an 11 month rental agreement, written in Spanish.
> 
> If, we should wish to leave the property earlier - would we be required, by law, to pay up until the 11 month date ?


no, you wouldn't - although the owner might believe that you should & the agent would probably demand that you do

the bottom line, is that if it's your home/primary residence here - so you're on the padrón etc - then the LAU overrides anything the contract says (unless the contract specifically says it overrides the LAU) 

the LAU says that a month notice is all that is required to end a residential rental contract


although the link posted by snikpoh says the opposite :confused2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> no, you wouldn't - although the owner mught believe that you should & the agent would probably demand that you do
> 
> the bottom line, is that if it's your home/primary residence here - so you're on the padrón etc - then the LAU overrides anything the contract says (unless the contract specifically says it overrides the LAU)
> 
> the LAU says that a month notice is all that is required to end a residential rental contract


But what if the contract containing the 'over-riding' clause is itself invalid?

I'm asking this out of curiosity, not because we are experiencing problems, far from it.


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

So it all boils down to the "main residence"?
So what happens at the 11 month mark when he wants you out?

Quote "main residence"?.....and te contract continues....or you get wrongly evicted and go through the courts?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> But what if the contract containing the 'over-riding' clause is itself invalid?
> 
> I'm asking this out of curiosity, not because we are experiencing problems, far from it.


I'm not sure what you mean.....

if the contract specifically says that by signing it you agree to not be bound by the LAU...... then you aren't 

I recently translated a contract for someone which had had this clause added.... they refused to sign unless it was removed - the agent had it removed


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

el pescador said:


> So it all boils down to the "main residence"?
> So what happens at the 11 month mark when he wants you out?
> 
> Quote "main residence"?.....and te contract continues....or you get wrongly evicted and go through the courts?


as long as you're paying the rent & not breaking the terms of the contract in any other way, you have the right to stay - you could be taken to court but it's highly unlikely the owner would win

essentially the only way would be for them or a close family member to move in within 3 months of you leaving, if a court demanded that you move out in order for them to move in


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks
That's really helpfully.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks Xabiachica,

I will check the contract......Presumably, if we left early - the landlord would have an excuse to keep our 1 month deposit !

We probably won't move until the end of January, the 11 month period. There will be more rental choices out of season & perhaps, it would be morally wrong to leave early.....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.....
> 
> if the contract specifically says that by signing it you agree to not be bound by the LAU...... then you aren't
> 
> I recently translated a contract for someone which had had this clause added.... they refused to sign unless it was removed - the agent had it removed


We've had four eleven month contracts with that clause but if the contract is itself invalid then that clause about LAU must be also invalid, surely?

Our contract is in Spanish, we pay our four-figure monthly rent in two instalments upfront, have improved the house ourselves and it's our sole residence, not our main residence!

I'm asking out of curiosity as I intend to offer our landlord a three year deal. If we said we were leaving I think he would lie down in front of the removal truck. We are the only tenants who have actually paid any rent in the over eleven years he's owned the house.

Scott, Janice and Co...yes, I think you are right. I actually think that tenants have too many rights here! I've been a landlord myself and am now a tenant so I can see both sides. 

But I have a gut feeling that if our landlord wanted to move us out he'd find it very difficult. He is Austrian, lives in Austria.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> no, you wouldn't - although the owner might believe that you should & the agent would probably demand that you do
> 
> the bottom line, is that if it's your home/primary residence here - so you're on the padrón etc - then the LAU overrides anything the contract says (unless the contract specifically says it overrides the LAU)
> 
> ...


Would you like to comment on point 3 of the tenants section in the following link.

Rental mistakes


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> Thanks Xabiachica,
> 
> I will check the contract......Presumably, if we left early - *the landlord would have an excuse to keep our 1 month deposit !
> *
> We probably won't move until the end of January, the 11 month period. There will be more rental choices out of season & perhaps, it would be morally wrong to leave early.....


sadly, they almost always find some excuse to keep it 

not *all *landlords will.......... but I've rarely come across anyone who got their deposit back....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Would you like to comment on point 3 of the tenants section in the following link.
> 
> Rental mistakes


that's what I meant....

point 3 of the tenant's section sort of contradicts point 5 of the landlord's..........


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I've had a look at our contract in which it says that it is not 'de necesidad devivienda permanente del arrendatoria'....but if such an eleven month contract has no legal status or validity presumably that means....nada.

We have lived here for four years plus, paid the rent before time, have no other properties of any kind, have been on our padron since we arrived in Spain five years ago....


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My understanding is that the 11 month contract came from an historical legal point which then stated that anyone who had a contract for 12 months would be entitled to stay in the property for 5 years, the landlord having very little power to evict. This was changed some time ago; more recently and I cannot find proof (sorry but it is out there somewhere) the rental law was changed to give the landlord greater rights so that evictions would be easier (not, in fact, proving to be the case) but tenants, upon completion of living in a rental property for 12 months, regardless of the length of contract, then had the right to stay in the property for a reduced period - 4 years. The landlord may evict on two counts, first that he/she wishes the property to become their own main residence and would have to prove that, or the tenant was breaking the terms of the contract (non-payment of rent, pets where no pets allowed is stipulated, changes to the building etc). Of course, this may be entirely incorrect, especially on a Thursday or if the feria is in town.... This is Spain, after all.....
I would also point out that my parents, having just finished their 12th month in their rental home have just been offered a 3 year contract by their landlord who stated what I state above as the reason...


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> This is a useful link
> 
> Rental mistakes


Biggest mistake of all - renting your property out in the first place.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> that's what I meant....
> 
> point 3 of the tenant's section sort of contradicts point 5 of the landlord's..........


Not really.

What point 3 states is that you have to pay to the end of the contracted period - I'm not sure this is true.

What I say to everyone, is that they should make sure that the contract states a one month get-out clause. Whether this is de-facto or not doesn't then matter as it's stated anyway.

Point 5 is all about 11 month contracts and how they can be challenged.



As I see it, if it's your main home, then it doesn't matter if you have a 12 month contract or an 11 month one, you have the right to remain for as long as you want (up to a total of 5 years = 12 months + 4 years) provided the landlord does NOT need it as his main residence.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> Not really.
> 
> What point 3 states is that you have to pay to the end of the contracted period - I'm not sure this is true.
> 
> ...


Yes that is correct although in 2012 they changed it to a total of 4 years.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Campesina said:


> Biggest mistake of all - renting your property out in the first place.


How I agree with that! We had rental properties in the UK and Canada, problems with difficult tenants in the UK and a pushy Canadian tenant who wanted the whole house recarpeted, painted...It was a big area to paint and carpet and would have cost almost the year's rent.
We sold the lot.

Big Mistake Number Two: starting your own business, that is a business with several employees. Better to work for someone and have your tax, insurance, pension fund, sick pay and holidays all sorted for you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Not really.
> 
> What point 3 states is that you have to pay to the end of the contracted period - I'm not sure this is true.
> 
> ...


we agree - I don't think it's true either that you have to stay til the end of an 11 month contract - because of the fact that they can be challenged under the LAU - which says that only 1 month notice is required.....

actually it's not just me that thinks that - it's a lawyer friend of mine, too


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

So...my question: if eleven-month contracts are per se invalid....then it follows logically that all contained therein is invalid, including any clauses which stipulate that the property is not your main or sole residence.
My point is that in a case like ours where we have lived in a property for over four years then surely it is clear that it is our main or sole residence, whatever the contract states?

Another question: if a landlord refuses to do necessary repairs, what redress would a tenant have? After all, if a heating or hot water system malfunctions and the landlord does nothing to repair it then surely the tenant is entitled to take action?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> So...my question: if eleven-month contracts are per se invalid....then it follows logically that all contained therein is invalid, including any clauses which stipulate that the property is not your main or sole residence.
> My point is that in a case like ours where we have lived in a property for over four years then surely it is clear that it is our main or sole residence, whatever the contract states?
> 
> Another question: if a landlord refuses to do necessary repairs, what redress would a tenant have? After all, if a heating or hot water system malfunctions and the landlord does nothing to repair it then surely the tenant is entitled to take action?


in theory - with the agreement of the landlord

for example - the washing machine finally gave up on Saturday - the drum came away

the landlord said he'd get the technico in to repair it, I said it's not worth it, (the machine must be 10 years old) but it's your money

by 11am Monday the water in the machine was stinking the whole house out - no 'empty' function so no way of getting it out - I rang the landlord who said he hadn't managed to reach the technico

I told him that either it was repaired or replaced by the end of the day or I'd be going out on Tuesday & buying the best machine I could afford & either taking the cost off next month's rent or if he didn't want to pay I'd take the machine with me when I left, so he'd have to buy one in the end anyway (not that I intend to move any time soon)

lots of humming & haaing - several more phone calls & at one point he suggested 50:50 - yeah right.....

in the end I had a bright shiny new machine delivered before 2 pm.....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> in theory - with the agreement of the landlord
> 
> for example - the washing machine finally gave up on Saturday - the drum came away
> 
> ...


Our traktor has broken down...something to do with the gearbox, I think. It's ancient anyway. I'm not sure of the right term in Spanish, it's one of those you sit on and drive around. I'll get it done myself as I have 1000 euros I kept back from the block rent I paid to help him out by paying the yearly alarm company charges, which I've done since we've been here, then deducted from rent. 

I think he is terrified of us leaving, a feeling I intensified by showing him empty properties that had been squatted and stripped when he was last here. No way would I take advantage of him as he is a good landlord but in the present climate no tenant should put up with essential repairs left undone.

So...sorry to harp on my question re contract: but am I right in assuming that an eleven month contract is invalid whatever clauses it may contain?

You give so much free advice...if you charged you'd be a millionaire! In Prague there was a small company, 'Help4Expats', run by a young lawyer. It specialised in providing services for immigrants, rather like a gestor, I guess, but she was bilingual and was very well 'connected'. 
Now there's a suggestion for a business venture!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Another question: if a landlord refuses to do necessary repairs, what redress would a tenant have? After all, if a heating or hot water system malfunctions and the landlord does nothing to repair it then surely the tenant is entitled to take action?


In Belgium it's the tenants responsibility to fix pretty much everything.

Just another reason I can't wait to move.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Our traktor has broken down...something to do with the gearbox, I think. It's ancient anyway. I'm not sure of the right term in Spanish, it's one of those you sit on and drive around. I'll get it done myself as I have 1000 euros I kept back from the block rent I paid to help him out by paying the yearly alarm company charges, which I've done since we've been here, then deducted from rent.
> 
> I think he is terrified of us leaving, a feeling I intensified by showing him empty properties that had been squatted and stripped when he was last here. No way would I take advantage of him as he is a good landlord but in the present climate no tenant should put up with essential repairs left undone.
> 
> ...


you're not the first to suggest it..........if only I had the time!!

yours is complicated by the bit that says it's not subject to the LAU - but the mere fact that you've been there 4 years would put you in a seriously strong position if it ever became necessary for you to fight the point


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> you're not the first to suggest it..........if only I had the time!!
> 
> yours is complicated by the bit that says it's not subject to the LAU - but the mere fact that you've been there 4 years would put you in a seriously strong position if it ever became necessary for you to fight the point


Thanks for that. We moved in on May 15th 2009 and current eleven month contract expires on 15th December this year. That will be our fifth!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

As far as I know, the only part of an 11 month contract that is meaningless is the referral to 11 months, IF, you are on your second or more contract. The first contract can mean 11 months and if the landlord so desires they can throw you out at the end of it, BUT only if they have given you notice, either as stipulated in the contract or whatever the local law states should be the minimium period.


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