# Mexico-less



## BookNookBlue

I have been traveling through Mexico gently and in the "magic stage" where I love everything and ready to throw away my whole previous life to live in this land of mystery. 

Just asking, what are the things that you all miss - if anything- from your previous lives? Thanks in advance.


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## SirRon

food food food and food


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## Isla Verde

There are some friends living in the States whose company I miss. Other than that, not much.


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## lagoloo

I miss feeling confident (perhaps falsely) in taking a long drive in our car to remote locations, such as up or down the coast. Some recent horror stories inhibit that. May do it anyway, but back in CA it was more or less safe and a real pleasure.

I miss friends, too. Not enough to leave our happy home in Mexico, though.

Food? Hey, I'm a good cook, so tasty food in no probem, and there are plenty of places to dine where it's a treat.


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## RVGRINGO

Flip side: We lived in Chapala for 13 years, having to move to AZ for Medicare and VA services. We really miss the fresh food in Mexico, especially seafood, the variety of restaurants, our many friends and the weather & beauty of the country and its people......a lot! I even miss the more caring medical care, but I needed too much of it and it added up over time.
I wish we could have moved to Mexico at 40 instead of 64.
Go for it!


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## citlali

All depends where you are planning to move...Mexico is a large country. It also depends on where you live and what you expect.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> All depends where you are planning to move...Mexico is a large country. It also depends on where you live and what you expect.


Good point, citlali. If you expect to have access to all the food, public services and so on that you had access to in your home country, then you're bound to be disappointed.


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## dwwhiteside

I don't miss very much; and there are a WHOLE LOT of things I am glad NOT to have. But, if forced to make a list, I would say, in no particular order; college football, cheddar cheese (although it is available at City Club from time to time), Whataburger (it's a Texas thing) and that is about it. I really cannot think of anything else that I truly miss.

On the other hand, the list of things I WOULD miss if I left Mexico and went back to the US is much longer.


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## RVGRINGO

An hour ago, I went for a bit of a walk. There are no people to greet, nothing to see but houses similar to ours, an occasional car, no street dogs, nothing; absolutely nothing! Not a taco stand between here and Nogales; Nuts!


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## maesonna

I sometimes miss the comfortableness of understanding everything; the words, the undertext, and the unspoken cultural assumptions.
Obviously I don’t miss them enough to give up on Mexico, and on the other hand, learning a new language and a new set of cultural expectations more than makes up for it.
And Lebanese food. That’s the only food I miss a lot. Fortunately we can get some of it here. Plus plenty of other good food of all kinds.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> An hour ago, I went for a bit of a walk. There are no people to greet, nothing to see but houses similar to ours, an occasional car, no street dogs, nothing; absolutely nothing! Not a taco stand between here and Nogales; Nuts!


That sounds a lot like the boring, somewhat souless suburb where I grew up. I really emphasize with you right now, RV.


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## makaloco

What I miss most about my previous lives is my youth!


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## lagoloo

RV: I do empathize. However: I, too, due to my husband's jobs in the states, was dropped into what seemed like hopeless places on a number of occasions and forced to learn to bloom where I was planted.
If you have a hobby of any kind and you search out others (on the net, through bulletin boards or however) for those who share your interests, you will find a "group" to become involved with. Next thing you know, life will get more tolerable. If you don't have a hobby, it's not too late to find one and go from there.
What was the most interesting thing you found to do in your life in Chapala?


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## RVGRINGO

Having lived some years in Turkey, I also love Middle Eastern food, but we were able to find what we needed to make it at home in Mexico.


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## citlali

You can make Middle Eastern food in Tucson, just buy what ou cannot find on the internet .
Tuscon has a large Mexican population so I am sure you can find Mexican food there.
I used to buy tacos and all kinds of other food from the roach coach that would stop at the warehouse in Tucson, I bet you you can get tacos in Tuscon.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Good point, citlali. If you expect to have access to all the food, public services and so on that you had access to in your home country, then you're bound to be disappointed.


There are so many cuisines in Mexico, regional variations, I never missed food from _back home_. Certainly there have been items I'd have liked to eat once and a while (such as a White Castle), but I've found so much food I've liked in Mexico that I really didn't, and haven't missed daily meals I'd eaten in the USA. I cooked a lot when I lived in Mexico, and still cook when I travel in Mexico and rent an apartment, so I can have just about anything I want. Mexico's climate provides for a wealth of fresh vegetables, and the chicken is okay, but the beef is lacking in quality (I was accustomed to) IMO. Public services can be either really bad, or excellent in Mexico. My experiences have been with many inept or corrupt public employees and with the lack of code/law enforcement ... and those things will cause a coronary if you/we/me let them _get_ to us. Expats who _crash and burn _in Mexico, from what I've observed, are those who lack the ability or interest in compromising or adjusting to the norms/way of life in Mexico and who don't make the effort to learn the language.


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## Longford

RVGRINGO said:


> An hour ago, I went for a bit of a walk. There are no people to greet, nothing to see but houses similar to ours, an occasional car, no street dogs, nothing; absolutely nothing! Not a taco stand between here and Nogales; Nuts!


All of what you describe is, IMO, because of where, the neighborhood, you choose to live in Tucson. I think you need to spend some time learning to like where you live, instead of seemingly looking for reasons to dislike it. I lived and worked in Tucson, and my experiences were opposite those of yours.


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## citlali

I do miss all kinds of Asian foods, I cook a lot of Thai and Vietnamese food but I miss good authentic Chinese food and great sushi and seafood from cold waters. We get nice seafood in Guadalajara but nothing great like in Boston, France or Seattle. I miss great veggies or great strawberries like the Marat des Bois or great unpasteurized cheeses but then when I am in Europe I miss the smell of tortilla, all the various chilis we have here, the various moles, the fresh tropical fruit , the limes at a price I can afford and so on..I guess the trick would be to never move and never experience anything new so you would not miss anything.


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## Isla Verde

Not sure I've ever had authentic Chinese food, but occasionally I miss the tasty and inexpensive Chinese food that I enjoyed in the Chinatowns of NYC and Philadelphia.


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## lagoloo

Isla Verde said:


> Not sure I've ever had authentic Chinese food, but occasionally I miss the tasty and inexpensive Chinese food that I enjoyed in the Chinatowns of NYC and Philadelphia.


And San Francisco and Silicon Valley. My taste buds miss the dim sun. Badly. 
However, it's better to have good taste memories (and hope) than to have missed the life experience of having the good stuff. You never know when it'll come 'round again!


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## citlali

I had some good Chinese food in NYC but not in the towns I have been to in Mexico. To be fair I have heard of a handful of good ones in DF but I have not gotten a chance to go there yet..


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> And San Francisco and Silicon Valley. My taste buds miss the dim sun. Badly.
> However, it's better to have good taste memories (and hope) than to have missed the life experience of having the good stuff. You never know when it'll come 'round again!


I make a point of eating in Chinatowns during my annual trips to the East Coast to visit my mother and various and sundry friends. When I first moved back to Mexico, I tried out the food at a few Chinese buffets in Mexico City. The price was right, but the food was awful! And even the food in more upscale Chinese eateries was not very good, so I gave up looking for my Chinese favorites in Mexico. On the other hand, I've found a couple of places in my neighborhood serving Japanese food that was tasty and not too terribly expensive.


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## Hound Dog

RVGRINGO said:


> An hour ago, I went for a bit of a walk. There are no people to greet, nothing to see but houses similar to ours, an occasional car, no street dogs, nothing; absolutely nothing! Not a taco stand between here and Nogales; Nuts!


RV must have moved into an extraordinarily dull and non-descript neighborhood of Tucson to have been inspired to have described that city, which does have its faults as do all cities, as such a dull place that there is "...nothing to see but houses similar to ours, an occasional car, no street dogs, nothing; absolutely nothing! Not (even) a taco stand between (Tucson) and Nogales...."

Back in 2000 while we were in the process of trying to identify a U.S. place suitable for our pending retirement and having ruled out California for state income tax reasons, Tucson, along with parts of New Mexico and Coastal Alabama topped our list at the time. We had ruled out dreadful Phoenix and most of the rest of Arizona but liked Tucson´s adaptation of its dry desert climate as the city´s ambient theme so we were drawn there despite the fact that the city was so spread out and dependent on the automobile to get just about anywhere outside of one´s own back yard.

One thing we liked about Tucson was the proliferation of interesting homes surrunded by low-maintenance and beautiful desert gardens as opposed to Phoenix´ attempts to turn residential áreas into simulated golf courses with wasteful wáter practices artificially delivered as far as the eye could see.

Back then Tucson was a bit too expensive for us for the residential desert garden we desired due to the housing bubble of the day so we moved on from there and came up with the notion of Mexico as an alternative. Had we been able to afford a home with the desert garden we sought, I have no doubt we might have settled in Tucson for retirement despite the city´s flaws. Whether or not we would still be there is anyone´s guess.

We, like RV, ended up at Lake Chapala and also in the Chiapas Highlands and, like RV, would only be inclined these days, some 14 years later, to return to the U.S. if required for compelling medical reasons and would miss Mexico dearly if we were forced to leave here. Fortunately for us, no such complelling medical reason has occurred as of yet so we are firmly ensconced here at Lake Chapala and in the Chiapas Highlands of Southern Mexico alternating semi-annually between places we have come to love. Moving back to the U.S. or my wife´s native France are moves not in the cards for us barring some unforeseen emergency and a hell of an emergency it would have to be. 

One thing I don´t understand about RV´s comment. While Tucson has many flaws including a stifflingly hot summer and way too many cars jamming way too many endless expressways in a town where a private automobile is a must to reach any desireable destination, we consider the housing stock in many parts of town to be quite interesting and not akin to the Levytown sameness he seems to see there and, in our explorations there some 15 years ago, we had no trouble observing an abundant street dog population and a variety of appealing Mexican-style places to dine including myriad taco joints here and there all the way to Nogales. 

No matter; you´ll notice we are not in the U.S. and have no intention of returnng there but I can think of worse places than Tucson to settle if we should ever do so.

Sorry you had to move back to the states, RV, but we all play the cards we are dealt. Maybe you´ll get used to it over time. Good luck to you.

Meanwhile, we´re off to San Cristóbal de Las Casas which is about as far from Arizona as one can get and still (marginally) be in North America. Adios.


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## RVGRINGO

I never did like ‘suburbia‘, but here we are. I also recognize that my feelings are the direct result of my failing eyesight and inability to walk more than half a block before turning around and going home to rest. Car dependency is a fact here, but I am now a passenger and not a driver. That said, my wife feels more secure here with a house and the other safety nets that she might need after my demise.


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## Anonimo

*Chow Fan!*



Isla Verde said:


> Not sure I've ever had authentic Chinese food, but occasionally I miss the tasty and inexpensive Chinese food that I enjoyed in the Chinatowns of NYC and Philadelphia.


This is Chinese food (dim sum), as authentic as it gets in México.

Jing Teng.


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## Isla Verde

Anonimo said:


> This is Chinese food (dim sum), as authentic as it gets in México.
> 
> Jing Teng.


Thanks for the tip. Is the link to your website?


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## citlali

Yes that dim sum look pretty authentic. Have you tried some other place in the Viaducto La Piedad area? There are a couples of restaurants that are supposed to be good, I would love to have your opinion.


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## Anonimo

*Yes*



Isla Verde said:


> Thanks for the tip. Is the link to your website?


Yes.


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## Isla Verde

Anonimo said:


> Yes.


Your blog looks like a great resource for finding good things to eat in Mexico. Thanks for posting the link.


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## Pastel de nata

Awwww RVGringo! I feel for you! I've just moved to Mexico so am still missing my 'former life'... good luck to all of us in finding and enjoying the best things about our new homes and situations! How are your neighbours, for example? Hugs. 
(By the way in no way do I mean to complain about Mexico. So far I've had a lovely time and an easy arrival, aside from the drug- and corruption-related darkness. I'm just a bit deracinated.)


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## RVGRINGO

Neighbors? They seem isolated and not at all interested in each other, nor in a couple of newly arrived geriatrics. One just next door has yet to be seen; we may have to go knock on his door. No Aunt Bea with a casserole to be found here.


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## Hound Dog

_


RVGRINGO said:



I never did like ‘suburbia‘, but here we are. I also recognize that my feelings are the direct result of my failing eyesight and inability to walk more than half a block before turning around and going home to rest. Car dependency is a fact here, but I am now a passenger and not a driver. That said, my wife feels more secure here with a house and the other safety nets that she might need after my demise.

Click to expand...

_I know this move to Arizona from Mexico has been an unpleasant experience for you RV and I understand completely what puts you off about suburban Tucson versus small city Chapala. We wish you the best up there and I am sure I will share your dread if the day comes I must make the same move for medical reasons.

As for your demise - try to put that off for a while. Even suburban Tucson beats that. 

Good luck and keep in touch with us still down here.

Dawg


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## Longford

Hound Dog said:


> I know this move to Arizona from Mexico has been an unpleasant experience for you RV and I understand completely what puts you off about suburban Tucson versus small city Chapala. We wish you the best up there and I am sure I will share your dread if the day comes I must make the same move for medical reasons.
> 
> As for your demise - try to put that off for a while. Even suburban Tucson beats that.
> 
> Good luck and keep in touch with us still down here.
> 
> Dawg


My experience as a former resident of Tucson, a former resident in Mexico, and as someone who has traveled widely in Mexico and the United States, has been that Tucson is probably as affectionately deeply rooted in Mexico as anyplace in the USA. I've also witnessed that people in Tucson don't suffer fools wisely. Braggards and persons professing self importance ... are quickly ignored. We've learned that Mexico couldn't provide the level and frequency of healthcare at an affordable cost for RVGringo and that he, like many others in similar health-challenged situations in Mexico, chose to return "home" to the USA. While I can't relate to the health challenges RVGringo faces, I can relate to the re-entry/assimilation (back into the USA) adjustments. It took me 6 months to a year to become comfortable once again in the USA. Such a clean country. Less security concerns, for me. So many light-skinned people! I think there can be worse places to move to (from Mexico) than Tucson. But like so many other things, our opinions are formed as a result of our total live experiences.


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## lagoloo

How about a little nasty reality about humans in general, certainly humans in the states?

People really don't want to get too close to old people these days: especially unhealthy old people. The "forever young" culture is so pervasive that I suspect some people think that "old" is a communicable disease. If you doubt me, take a look at the ads on your Yahoo news page: "This hairdo will knock 15 years off your age"; this exercise routine will do etc. "this face cream will get rid of those laugh lines". And so on. Check out the plastic surgery ads.
So, if one is forced to move back to the land of health care, "Ageism" comes with the territory. 

That's one nice thing about residing in this little enclave of older expats. Got lots of company with gray hair and wrinkles. Well, wait a minute. Lots of ads for plastic surgery in our local expat rag. Some do care, at considerable expense. The heck with them.

RV: maybe you should check out the local Senior Center and find some contemporaries to hang with. No diss intended there, since that's just what I'd do.


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## citlali

Actually my mother who is 92 told me old foks become invisibe...The marketing companies do not survey anyone over 45, they know we know what we want or like and will not spend money experimenting with new things , we are the past..except for all the ads direced at the old folks we do not exist. People can have plastic surgery all they want their birthday gives them away and they disappear too. They just make prettier cadavers.
The IS is particularly bad about it but the search for the fountain of youth is universal no matter what we say.


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## coondawg

Sadly, RV, you could not experience "small town" Texas, as I have. Those "Aunt Beas" do exist in places. Certainly in large areas, it is very difficult to find them; in small areas, much easier. I think Longford nailed it when he said that it took "time" to reestablish a life NOB that was more comfortable. My wish for you is that the time will be much shorter than you think. 
My having family in the area where we return to, makes lots of things much easier. 
We find lots of people our age at the local YMCA, when we go to the pools or gym. Our membership is only $35 a month for 2, full access. We miss that interaction when we are in Mexico, but we honesty have not made an effort here in Leon to find people our age. I understand some people have more limitations than others. It does get better, but you must help it.


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## Isla Verde

coondawg said:


> . . . but we honesty have not made an effort here in Leon to find people our age. . . .


Almost none of the friends I've made in Mexico are around my age. Most of them are younger than me, and I am fine with that!


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## lagoloo

I'm happy to say that I have friends and acquaintances in a lot of different age groups, but the comments about people becoming "invisible", especially in the states, are also true.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> I'm happy to say that I have friends and acquaintances in a lot of different age groups, but the comments about people becoming "invisible", especially in the states, are also true.


I don't yet feel invisible, but I'm not as old as citlali's mother. Because I'm a foreigner here, I think I'm less invisible than I would be if I were still living in the States.


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## coondawg

I am happily looking forward to that "invisible " time myself. Then maybe people will quit hitting on me for money.  
Guess I'll need to get back to the states full time for that to happen. My mom, also 92, won't let anyone forget she exists. Still sharp as a "tack" and gets around without the walker after recovering from broken hip. What a woman !  Sure hope I got a lot of those genes.


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## Longford

Older people in the USA are "invisible" to others, and older people in Mexico aren't. Both examples, if that's the suggestion being made by some ... sounds to me like observations from persons who don't know what they're talking about. I find older people treated about the same, in both Mexico and the USA ... and in most other countries I've visited. Some older people are active by choice, others withdraw by choice. Some older people have few other family members, or those who have family members don't have contact with them often. That's true, from what I've experienced, in both Mexico in the USA. I happen to live in a building with 218 units in the USA, many which are occupied by old people. Really old people. People in their late-80s and into their late 90s. Most if not all are very active for their ages ... and certainly not invisible, to anyone.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Older people in the USA are "invisible" to others, and older people in Mexico aren't. Both examples, if that's the suggestion being made by some ... sounds to me like observations from persons who don't know what they're talking about. . . .


Just because you don't agree with a forum member's comments, there's no need to get nasty and say they don't know what they're talking about.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Just because you don't agree with a forum member's comments, there's no need to get nasty and say they don't know what they're talking about.


If you have a question about remarks I've made, please ask them ... instead of posting nasty insinuations and/or accusations based on assumptions which are likely to be incorrect. I typically supply the quote of a persons remarks when my response is specific to those. The rules of participation apply to us all.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> If you have a question about remarks I've made, please ask them ... instead of posting nasty insinuations and/or accusations based on assumptions which are likely to be incorrect. I typically supply the quote of a persons remarks when my response is specific to those. The rules of participation apply to us all.


My comment did quote your comment about people being visible or not as they get older in Mexico and the US. You stated that certain posters who expressed their opinion about this question "didn't know what they were talking about". In my mind, that's a nasty comment on your part. You may not agree that it was nasty, so I'll play nice and change it to "uncalled for."


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## mattoleriver

My mom turned 93 last month. At her peak she wasn't much over five feet tall and she has been steadily getting shorter for the past several decades. If she gets much shorter she will disappear. Nothin' cultural about it.


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## Isla Verde

mattoleriver said:


> My mom turned 93 last month. At her peak she wasn't much over five feet tall and she has been steadily getting shorter for the past several decades. If she gets much shorter she will disappear. Nothin' cultural about it.


In _One Hundred Years of Solitude_, Gabriel García Marquez' masterpiece of a novel, there is one character, an old, old woman, who shrank so much from age that she ended up sleeping in a dresser drawer. I hope that is not your mother's fate!


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## citlali

My mother is also shrinking and she is the one with other seniors who feel that society is putting them aside .
She was a concert violinist until 5 years ago , played in an orchestra with young people and was difficult to get before midnight as she was usualy out..Has lots of friends and goes out a lot. Everyone in the family and in the neighborhood knows she is not invisible, believe me. She lives alone, does her own housework and garden ans drives everywhere, she is not a shrinking violet and yet she feels that way so maybe her opinion is as valuable as the one from a younger person who is not there yet.
In the US people get discarded from their job on a regular basis because of their age and cannot get jobs because of theirage, age and youth is very important there, more so than in many other countries. 

People have different lifes and different experiences and that it does not mean "they do not know what they are talking about". Longford you may have rules the roost at one time with your expert opinions but you now have competition so get used to it and try to be gracious about it.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> Older people in the USA are "invisible" to others, and older people in Mexico aren't. Both examples, if that's the suggestion being made by some ... sounds to me like observations from persons who don't know what they're talking about.


It appears to me you are once again talking about yourself and not about those whom have expressed an opinion about this that they see happening around them daily in Mexico and had seen this happening around them when living in the US.

When is the last time you lived in Mexico? You seem to have a very vague idea about modern day life in Mexico from some of your comments. IMO


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> In the US people get discarded from their job on a regular basis because of their age and cannot get jobs because of theirage, . . .


This happens in Mexico too. I can think of a woman I know who is her early forties who lost her job recently after working for a company for over 20 years. Her husband told me that they got rid of her to hire a younger person at a much lower salary. Apparently, this is not uncommon here.


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## coondawg

I think anywhere a person does not "grow" with their job, they are subject to replacement. Since 1999 I have lived about 50% of the year in Mexico and 50% NOB. I realize that everyone has different experiences, and some of us , from time to time, rely on "facts" as provided by friends. Everyone has someplace they are "coming from", so "facts" should often be taken with a "grain of salt".
IMHE (experiences), I have not found "invisible" old people NOB, nor in Mexico. I do not know anyone NOB that has ever been "discarded" from their job because of their age. I am 72, and have been offered many jobs (full and part-time) NOB when I am there, and have never gone looking. (no interest on my part). 
I do know people who have "lost" their job because they were unwilling or unable to maintain the quality of work that was needed in their job by extra education/training, and thus were replaced. Often the replacement was a younger person, as they had the skills and training needed to perform the work. A person (IMHO) can't expect to "just hang on" in their work if they don't maintain the necessary skills.(although I have a personal feeling that many people believe they are "entitled") If you can't perform, you need to move aside and let someone that can do the job do it.
One thing I know for sure is that the US is a lot different in those 16 years that I have been coming here, than it was in the 90s. (at least where I go). It is a MUCH more desirable place to live, to obtain health care, and the treatment and attitude toward retirees is outstanding; sadly, the weather has not improved, nor has it worsened. 
Often, people on these Forums have a tendency to 'put down" NOB (and certainly the US has made a TON of mistakes and continues to do so). However, when they say this and that is true of the US, I believe that it would add credibility to their comments if they would kindly tell about their "own" personal experience(not of their "friends" or others) and PLEASE tell where in the US that actually happens, and WHEN that happened. The US is HIGHLY diversified and things are different in different places. Please be specific, and "first hand". knowing one or two people that are affected by something does NOT make it a universal truth. We are "too old" for rumors.


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## lagoloo

I think you could mix *******'s post with perlite and a little peat moss and grow absolutely anything.

Speaking of the tech industry in particular, the people who were once in such high demand for their skills, even in their youth, were replaced at every opportunity by people from other countries who were willing to work for much, much less money. "Little India" formed in Silicon Valley. The government cooperated with the giant corporations (big surprise) by giving special visas to those workers because it was such an "emergency". New graduates in Computer Science weren't grabbed as one would think. A number of startups never made it on the long haul and when their staff was dumped on the market, it was well known by anyone paying attention that older workers applying for other jobs were rejected, regardless of their skills. That's reality. If ******* had a different experience........lucky him.
There is plenty of information to back this up, but I'm not being paid to do that kind of research.

In Mexico, at least they are honest about it, as in "wanted, receptionist 20-30 years old"
Let us not "kid" ourselves.


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## citlali

Coondawg
I was an executive in a large International Corporation and I could put everyone to sleep with all the exemples I saw in the 25 years I worked in that corporation. Left in 1998. 


As far as healthcare I also went through a horror story in September 1972 in Oakland , Ca. because some government clerk´s mistake . She refused to enroll me in the insurrance program because I was pregnant and that was a precondition in those days. I think she was wrong but she screwed up our lives for a few years with that mistake. I found out first hand what it was like not to have insurrance and not being able to get some decent one.
For 4 years most of our money went to pay doctors who did very little for what they did. Including not recognizing I was going through labor telling me not to go to the hospital having my husband delivering the baby and not getting a penny back from the docor who got out of the delivery and 3 months of worth of prenatal visits. Then having to pay for an average of 10 physicians checking our baby who was dying anyways.
My indigenous friends who have their babies delivered in the woman´s hospital in San Cristobal get better care than I got..

I personaly started at the bottom and ended near the top so I know the pluses and minuses of the system. 
Life is great if you are at the top not so good when you are at the bottom. Life is great if you are in the type of industry that will have you until your retire or partially retire not so good for many other people.

Sometimes I get a little tired of hearing how wonderful the system is in the US, it is far from great in my opinion and could use a lot of improvements like many other systems.
I am a fast learner and decided to protect myself so I did very well but many other people were not as lucky.
In 2000 I bumped in one of our previous emplyee (45 years old) who ended up as a bag lady living on the street in Santa Monica because of mental problems with zero help as well .

As you said many people have different experiences and lives. You may not have met anyone who feels invisible in the States but I have.


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## coondawg

citlali said:


> Coondawg
> As you said many people have different experiences and lives. You may not have met anyone who feels invisible in the States but I have.


My point was that just because you know someone that "feels" invisible, does not make it a fact of life for the entire US. Think about it. 

Sometimes things change, for the better or for the worse. Seldom do things stay the same. What happened in 1972 may or may not be true in that area since 2000. The only way to know for sure is to live there and experience, not rely on what others suggest. The past is not the same as the future in many places. You speak as if what happened in California was typical of all the other states in every instance. I can assure you that it was not, and is not.


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## citlali

It happened in large corpeations all over the States not so much with family organizations, what happened in California also happened i other States. I had an office in NYC and covered 13 Western States so I saw it happen in other States that California. Did not have Texas so I cannot speak about Texas. 

I know plenty of "invisibles" in the State and many of them are a whole lot younger tha 92. we obviously had very different paths.

Yes the past is the past but al I said happened in the States so it is part of the system some changed or will change. If you want to talk about the future go ahead but I left my crystal ball back in a cellar so go ahead.


----------



## coondawg

lagoloo said:


> I think you could mix *******'s post with perlite and a little peat moss and grow absolutely anything.
> 
> Speaking of the tech industry in California. If ******* had a different experience........lucky him.
> There is plenty of information to back this up, but I'm not being paid to do that kind of research.
> 
> In Mexico, at least they are honest about it, as in "wanted, receptionist 20-30 years old"
> Let us not "kid" ourselves.


Let us not kid ourselves, what happened in silicon valley did not happen in the entire US , nor in every industry that employs workers. That is a "segment" of the work force, and certainly does not account for all those employed in the US. To base ones comments that this sort of thing is prevalent in the entire US because of "tech" jobs is very close minded, no? I did not work in that industry, nor did anyone that I know. As I said, I have know "lazy" people who lost their jobs and were replaced by younger workers because they were unwilling to maintain the skills needed in their work. But, it was much easier for them to say " I was fired and they hired someone younger so they could save money". I happened to be one who did some of that "firing" and "hiring", and never did it have to do with age or saving money. So, what happens in one place and one industry does not speak about the entire US. Think about it.


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## lagoloo

I'm not in the habit to speaking or writing without thinking about it. In addition, I think that ******* or anyone else is being unfair to another poster when they pick and choose PORTIONS of the post in order to either refute it or distort the meaning, as he did in this case.

What he did in his own business experience is not the picture of what happens in general.
A little research on his part would support the notion that ageism and saving money-ism has been and is now alive and well in *all *ndustries as the downsizing, off shoring and outsourcing continues to destroy the moribund "American Dream". I wonder how long the pundits can continue to pretend it's still breathing, although on life support.


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## citlali

Age discrimination is the hardest thing to prove so companies get away with it. 

On the oher hand we had a distributor in California who went the other way, he told me he was always looking for older people who were smart and needed money, he said they did not need much supervision, had experience and were the best employees, many of them worked for about nothing because they were offered health insurrance: another side of the same coin.


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## BelloBello

Isla Verde said:


> In _One Hundred Years of Solitude_, Gabriel García Marquez' masterpiece of a novel, there is one character, an old, old woman, who shrank so much from age that she ended up sleeping in a dresser drawer. I hope that is not your mother's fate!


I had to respond to this, I am also what many consider old, senior, very mature and in general where I have lived the last 10 years "invisible".
I noticed it when I first turned 50, and thought I was the only one who felt this.
I asked my friends, my women friends also felt the same, the men not so much.

I lived in the San Francisco Bay area, was active, worked and belonged to a few work related assocciations. Kept busy in me social life and private life. And then I became invisible.
Next I moved to Northern California, and the same thing there. 
Lat year I moved to Squim Washington, bingo...the same invisiblity.
I kayak, hike and do my best without being intrusive to be generally interested in others.
It's the sign of the times, sad to say.
In my case perhaps because I don't quite belong. I am a widow, no children and no grandchildren, so therefore I don't quite fit in.????
I am so active that I could run the "young one into the ground" if I chose to. The twits.
By the way, I am 64. 
I've come to the conclusion, to hell with them, if I am invisible to them, it's because I move to fast. 
Yes, as one gets older if you can call 50 older, we do become invisible. It's not a falshood, it's alive and thriving.

What I really want to know.......If I am invisible... like so many, Why do I worry about becoming fat?


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## Anonimo

*Ka Won Seng?*



citlali said:


> Yes that dim sum look pretty authentic. Have you tried some other place in the Viaducto La Piedad area? There are a couples of restaurants that are supposed to be good, I would love to have your opinion.


The best known Chinese restaurant in the Viaducto Piedad area of Mexico City is Ka Won Seng, on Calle Albino García, about two blocks to the west of Jing Teng. But we haven't eaten there yet.

I'm imagining first having a few choice dim sum at Jing Teng, then walking to KWS and getting the serious Cantonese main courses. (I see in the Nick Gilman article on KWS that dim sum is sometimes available there as well. But it's always available at Jing Teng.

We have also made dim sum at home, as recently as last Sunday. You really gotta love to cook to do this!

Even more.


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## TundraGreen

Anonimo said:


> The best known Chinese restaurant in the Viaducto Piedad area of Mexico City is Ka Won Seng, on Calle Albino García, about two blocks to the west of Jing Teng. But we haven't eaten there yet.
> 
> I'm imagining first having a few choice dim sum at Jing Teng, then walking to KWS and getting the serious Cantonese main courses. (I see in the Nick Gilman article on KWS that dim sum is sometimes available there as well. But it's always available at Jing Teng.
> 
> We have also made dim sum at home, as recently as last Sunday. You really gotta love to cook to do this!
> 
> Even more.


I am jealous. Guadalajara is filled with Chinese restaurants, but they all serve a buffet that is far from any real Chinese food. I have yet to find one that attempts to serve true Chinese cuisine. If anyone knows of one in Guadalajara, I would like to hear about it.


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## lagoloo

Ah, dim sun. Memories of San Francisco. Around lakeside, an enterprising person has been been making some fairly nice packages of a dozen potstickers. Not quite there, but not bad. Then a friend tried something from, of all places, Costco, under the Royal Asia brand, which alleged to contain none of that nasty stuff like MSG, so in spite of it's fairly ridiculous price (214 pesos), I tried it. Beautifully presented with different varieties of tiny shrimp enhanced dim sun items, plenty for two, and for a dim sin deprived person, a treat. This ain't the real thing, folks, but good enough if you're desperate. Tasty sauce packet included.

After over ten years here in Mexico, I have found that if one gets too picky about remembering the great meals they had once upon a northern time, they will spend too much time in a state of disappointment. This isn't the Big City, and the culinary offerings they create best around these climes is way too spicy for my stomach. Viva Mexico anyway!


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## citlali

Anonimo I have never met anyone who made dim sum at home and I knew a whole lot of Chinese inSan Francsico as I lived on block up from China town and my husband worked in the Oakland Chinatown. That is a whole lot of work! I used to love the duck feet at the dim sum place near embarcadero in San Francisco but that is not something I would prepare, I also would not prepare all the dumplings ..you must really love cooking!
Thanks for the name of the Chinese restaurant, that is the one I wantd to try but I have not been there yet. Maybe La Isla will go with me when I go through DF on the 25th of April or or the 1st of May, i just have to try!

By the way the Korean supermarket on Av. Mexico sells Korean dumplings in Guadalajara, check out the refri or freezer.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> ...
> Thanks for the name of the Chinese restaurant, that is the one I wantd to try but I have not been there yet. Maybe La Isla will go with me when I go through DF on the 25th of April or or the 1st of May, i just have to try!


If I'm in town, I certainly will!


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## Anonimo

citlali said:


> Anonimo I have never met anyone who made dim sum at home and I knew a whole lot of Chinese inSan Francsico as I lived on block up from China town and my husband worked in the Oakland Chinatown. That is a whole lot of work! I used to love the duck feet at the dim sum place near embarcadero in San Francisco but that is not something I would prepare, I also would not prepare all the dumplings ..you must really love cooking!
> Thanks for the name of the Chinese restaurant, that is the one I wanted to try but I have not been there yet. Maybe La Isla will go with me when I go through DF on the 25th of April or or the 1st of May, i just have to try!
> 
> By the way the Korean supermarket on Av. Mexico sells Korean dumplings in Guadalajara, check out the refri or freezer.


Citlalli, we will be in Guadalajara toward the end of June, and may look up that Korean store. I need a little Gochujang (sp?) and perhaps a few other items. Although we often go to Mexico City and stay within a 10 minute walk of Koreatown in the Zona Rosa, we have not recently gone there.

Can you give me an address for the Korean store on Avenida Mexico?

Thanks!


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## citlali

I will try to get the address , they are 2 Korean stores in Guadalajara and some Korean restaurants. The store I am talking about is on the right handside of Av Mexico in te dirction of Las Americas, I will try to get you a number. if Thundergreen does not have it before I do.
I should spend 3 days in Guadalajara starting Monday so I will try to go by to give you a better address.

It is not far from the Sunday flee market so not far from Av. Mexico and Chapultepec.


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## TundraGreen

citlali said:


> I will try to get the address , they are 2 Korean stores in Guadalajara and some Korean restaurants. The store I am talking about is on the right handside of Av Mexico in the direction of Las Americas, I will try to get you a number. if Thundergreen does not have it before I do.
> I should spend 3 days in Guadalajara starting Monday so I will try to go by to give you a better address.
> 
> It is not far from the Sunday flee market so not far from Av. Mexico and Chapultepec.


I know of two Asian food stores in Guadalajara. One may be Korean flavored, the other is Japanese, but both carry a variety of Asian food stuffs. Both are just west of Chapultepec on Av. México and are the two Citlali mentioned.

The Asian Market (Av. México 2154, Col. Ladrón de Guevara) is at the intersection of Av. México and Plasencia on the NW corner. 

The other is Toyo Foods (Manuel M.Diéguez 130) in a building with a few shops at the SW corner of Av. México and Manuel M. Dieguez. Toyo Foods has a couple of other smaller shops as well, one in Chapalita and one in Centro. Toyo also runs a couple of decent Japanese restaurants near the Av. Mexico and Chapalita stores.

According to the Asian Food Stores in Guadalajara, Mexico | discoverGDL, there is another but I haven't visited or seen it.


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## Anonimo

TundraGreen said:


> I know of two Asian food stores in Guadalajara. One may be Korean flavored, the other is Japanese, but both carry a variety of Asian food stuffs. Both are just west of Chapultepec on Av. México and are the two Citlali mentioned.
> 
> The Asian Market (Av. México 2154, Col. Ladrón de Guevara) is at the intersection of Av. México and Plasencia on the NW corner.
> 
> The other is Toyo Foods (Manuel M.Diéguez 130) in a building with a few shops at the SW corner of Av. México and Manuel M. Dieguez. Toyo Foods has a couple of other smaller shops as well, one in Chapalita and one in Centro. Toyo also runs a couple of decent Japanese restaurants near the Av. Mexico and Chapalita stores.
> 
> According to the Asian Food Stores in Guadalajara, Mexico | discoverGDL, there is another but I haven't visited or seen it.


There's a Toyo Foods in Morelia not far from where we live.I like it, but the selections are limited.I would imagine that the Guadalajara location would have more items. 

Thanks for the addresses.

From this Google Street View, it seems possible that Asian Food Stores, at least at that location, is going out of business.

Now, upon a closer look, I see that the store was well stocked in 2013, when the Google Camera Car took its picture.


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## citlali

The Ave Mexico store used to be on Lopez Mateos on the left handside just before your reached the Cristobal COlon statue and moved. I was in there last year wit ha Korean friend , she was excited about what she found. Hopefully for her it will not go out of business.
I mostly cook Vietnamese and Thai food and I can find most of that I ned in San Antonio in Super Lake,
I am not impressed with Toyo´s selection , I went there to find ume paste could not find it and lost interest.


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## TundraGreen

Anonimo said:


> There's a Toyo Foods in Morelia not far from where we live.I like it, but the selections are limited.I would imagine that the Guadalajara location would have more items.
> 
> Thanks for the addresses.
> 
> From this Google Street View, it seems possible that Asian Food Stores, at least at that location, is going out of business.
> 
> Now, upon a closer look, I see that the store was well stocked in 2013, when the Google Camera Car took its picture.


It has always looked somewhat temporary. The Google street view from the side street seems to have been taken before it opened since it shows an empty store. The Street View from Avenida México is more up to date. Every time I visit it, it feels like they have just finished unpacking the boxes and have not really moved in yet.

Toyo is pretty good for Japanese stuff, both food and utensils, bowls, etc. It is not so good for other cuisines. It would be nice to find a place that carries Indian spices, but neither Toyo nor Asian Market seem to do that. Mamá Coneja is not bad for a lot of raw ingredients, but not asian ingredients.


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## vantexan

coondawg said:


> My point was that just because you know someone that "feels" invisible, does not make it a fact of life for the entire US. Think about it.
> 
> Sometimes things change, for the better or for the worse. Seldom do things stay the same. What happened in 1972 may or may not be true in that area since 2000. The only way to know for sure is to live there and experience, not rely on what others suggest. The past is not the same as the future in many places. You speak as if what happened in California was typical of all the other states in every instance. I can assure you that it was not, and is not.


Years ago on a Phillipines forum a poster said when he visited his hometown, Houston, it seemed no one was interested much in anything he had to say or his life overseas, not even his family. But in the Phillipines he was "Tio Henry" in his neighborhood and all the locals gave him friendly greetings every time they saw him. He said he felt important there. Having worked all over the U.S. I can relate a bit to the alienation one can feel in bigger cities. But I grew up in the small town South where everyone knows you or your parents and always say hi.

Concerning Tucson, my wife and I moved there in May of 2014, but left after 3 months when I got rehired by my former employer in another AZ town. We managed to rent an apartment in Tucson that happened to be the former residence of a drug dealer(the apartment mgrs neglected to tell us they had forced him out before we showed up). We had several men knocking on our door at 3-5:30 a.m., one being very belligerent. A week before we left I had been up late watching a movie. Went to bed at 3a.m. but stayed awake surfing the Internet. At 4:00 I heard a noise at the front door and got up to investigate. I turned on the kitchen light and stood fascinated watching the deadbolt turn. The door opened about an inch, then I jumped over to it and slammed it shut with my shoulder. The man outside started cursing and slamming his shoulder against the door while trying to turn the deadbolt. I started yelling to my wife to call 911 and after a minute or so he left. The police said that apartment owners aren't required to change locks! But they definitely did after I spoke with them. However they refused to give us any break on breaking the lease so I'll be paying on that penalty for two more years. Tucson has a lot going for it, but I'll never rent another apartment there.


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## citlali

Superlake sometimes has some vindaloos and various chutneys but I would not call it well stocked if you want to cook Indian food, I gave up on that one a long time ago..
Aladino has some ingredients for Lebanese food. That is where my Lebanese friends shop but the selection is pretty sad as well. It is al very basic. Guadalajara is not the place I would spend a lot of time looking for exotic spices, I would think you can do a whole lot better in Mexico City.


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## TundraGreen

citlali said:


> Superlake sometimes has some vindaloos and various chutneys but I would not call it well stocked if you want to cook Indian food, I gave up on that one a long time ago..
> Aladino has some ingredients for Lebanese food. That is where my Lebanese friends shop but the selection is pretty sad as well. It is al very basic. Guadalajara is not the place I would spend a lot of time looking for exotic spices, I would think you can do a whole lot better in Mexico City.


"Superlake", "Aladino" ??? I assume these are stores. What part of the world are we talking about here.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> "Superlake", "Aladino" ??? I assume these are stores. What part of the world are we talking about here.


The Never-Never-Land Mexican expat enclave also known as Lakeside!


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## citlali

Aladino is a store and maybe several stores in Guadalajara . One of them was and maybe still is near Las Fuentes, near the Burger King at the entrance of La Fuentes in Guadalajara (Lopez Mateos)

Superlake is in San Antonio between Chapala and Ajijic.


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## Cristobal

There is an Aladino located on Pablo Neruda in Providencia. I believe the one in the plaza with the BK on L. Mateos has closed.


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## TundraGreen

Cristobal said:


> There is an Aladino located on Pablo Neruda in Providencia. I believe the one in the plaza with the BK on L. Mateos has closed.


Thanks. I will have to check it out sometime.


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## citlali

I think Cristobal is right, I went to the one on L Mateos when I pick up some translation in Las Fuentes but I think last time I went by , it was closed.


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## citlali

Do not expect any kind of good selection of Arabic food there but it is a nice store . You can find most of what they carry in other places you just may have to go to several stores.


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## Snoopy1Can

sorry u left ******. Enjoyed your stuff...u were smartest of the bunch. I never got there long enough to meet you and sorry I missed the chance. Please live a rest of your good life ..good. Snooy1can (Jim.San Diego.)


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## Panama2Mexico

I don't live in Mexico yet, but I am an expat living in the interior of Panama (very "developing country-esque) so I think my "miss list" will become smaller when I move to Mexico.

I miss plush carpet, dressing up for a fancy event, quick internet, reliable utilities, and being able to walk to the restroom at night without a risk of stepping on a scorpion. I also miss buying secondhand items, an extensive produce selection, and Mexcian food. The second list is what I anticipate I will be more likely to find in Mexcio and never in Panama.


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## coondawg

Panama2Mexico said:


> so I think my "miss list" will become smaller when I move to Mexico.
> 
> I miss plush carpet, dressing up for a fancy event, quick internet, reliable utilities, and being able to walk to the restroom at night without a risk of stepping on a scorpion. I also miss buying secondhand items, an extensive produce selection, and Mexcian food. The second list is what I anticipate I will be more likely to find in Mexcio and never in Panama.


Second list, yes. Although quality in your produce can be debated. Secondhand items, yes, but many believe that it still has almost the new price value.  Lots of Mexican food, but not typical NOB Mexican food, real Mexican food.
Your first list (although utilities have improved) still basically does not exist much here. I must say scorpions are less than when we first arrived some 16 years ago(maybe we work harder at trying to discourage them from coming indoors).


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## lagoloo

Uh, "plush carpet"?? Tile floors are the most common in Mexico. For one thing, there are fewer places for those nasty bugs to hide.

Dressing up? I suppose that depends on where you live. Around "never never land" (lol) there are many nice restaurants and some fancy parties on occasion, but most people dress very, very casually. It is not unusual at all to see a chubby old guy and his female counterpart dining out in a nice restaurant wearing t-shirts and shorts.

However, I think you'll like it better in Mexico anyway. Good luck.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> Uh, "plush carpet"?? Tile floors are the most common in Mexico. For one thing, there are fewer places for those nasty bugs to hide.
> 
> Dressing up? I suppose that depends on where you live. Around "never never land" (lol) there are many nice restaurants and some fancy parties on occasion, but most people dress very, very casually. It is not unusual at all to see a chubby old guy and his female counterpart dining out in a nice restaurant wearing t-shirts and shorts.
> 
> However, I think you'll like it better in Mexico anyway. Good luck.


Good point about plush carpets, which are not popular anywhere in Mexico that I've been. You can buy lovely hand-woven carpets here to put on the ubiquitous tile floors that are common in most homes.

Where do you live, lagoloo (what is "never never land" for you?)? In Mexico City people dress up a lot, even to go to the supermarket. And I've never seen anyone eating at a nice restaurant wearing a t-shirt and shorts, not even tourists.


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## Isla Verde

Panama2Mexico said:


> ng country-esque)
> . . . I also miss buying secondhand items, an extensive produce selection, and Mexcian food. The second list is what I anticipate I will be more likely to find in Mexcio and never in Panama.


Not sure about secondhand items being available here, but the produce is always good, even in Walmart type supermarkets, and every neighborhood has a market with fresh fruits and vegetables for sale. I'm surprised that the produce isn't good in Panama. All the food in Mexico is "Mexican", but I guess you're referring to typical street and snack food like tacos, tamales and quesadillas.


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## lagoloo

Isla Verde said:


> Good point about plush carpets, which are not popular anywhere in Mexico that I've been. You can buy lovely hand-woven carpets here to put on the ubiquitous tile floors that are common in most homes.
> 
> Where do you live, lagoloo (what is "never never land" for you?)? In Mexico City people dress up a lot, even to go to the supermarket. And I've never seen anyone eating at a nice restaurant wearing a t-shirt and shorts, not even tourists.


From our own "Isla Verde" on this very thread:

"The Never-Never-Land Mexican expat enclave also known as Lakeside! "

As one who lives in Ajijic, I will assume Isla Verde is either making a joke or is being a tad insulting to us folks who live here. BTW, the population of "lakeside" is overwhelmingly Mexican.

And trust me on this: the "dress code" hereabouts is as I described it.
This isn't Mexico City, by a long shot. The Mexicans dress much better than either the expats OR the tourists.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> From our own "Isla Verde" on this very thread:
> 
> "The Never-Never-Land Mexican expat enclave also known as Lakeside! "
> 
> As one who lives in Ajijic, I will assume Isla Verde is either making a joke or is being a tad insulting to us folks who live here. BTW, the population of "lakeside" is overwhelmingly Mexican.
> 
> And trust me on this: the "dress code" hereabouts is as I described it.
> This isn't Mexico City, by a long shot. The Mexicans dress much better than either the expats OR the tourists.


Ooops, got me!  I spent a few days in Chapala/Ajijic last year. Whenever I was in Ajijic, I always ran into many more expats than Mexicans. Certainly the proportion of foreigners to locals is much higher there than in other parts of the country where I've lived or spent a lot of time, hence my use of the word "expat enclave". I'm sorry if you were insulted by my language, but that's how I felt when I was there.

Mexicans dress much better than expats and tourists in the capital too. I do my best to fit in, but I've given up trying to look like a Mexican woman of my age.


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## lagoloo

Isla Verde said:


> Ooops, got me!  I spent a few days in Chapala/Ajijic last year. Whenever I was in Ajijic, I always ran into many more expats than Mexicans. Certainly the proportion of foreigners to locals is much higher there than in other parts of the country where I've lived or spent a lot of time, hence my use of the word "expat enclave". I'm sorry if you were insulted by my language, but that's how I felt when I was there.
> 
> Mexicans dress much better than expats and tourists in the capital too. I do my best to fit in, but I've given up trying to look like a Mexican woman of my age.


No insult taken, and I do imagine the number of expats was shocking after being in the large mainly Mexican cities.

But now, do tell what a Mexican of your age dresses like??? Curious minds, y'know.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> But now, do tell what a Mexican of your age dresses like??? Curious minds, y'know.


I'm a youthful 69 going on 70. Mexican women my age would never think of leaving home without putting on make-up and having their hair fixed just so, and their hair is usually dyed (mine is proudly silver gray). They would never wear jeans and very casual pants like I do most of the time and would never wear sneakers, which is my favorite footwear, except on very warm days when I wear my wonderful Lands End walking sandals. They just look more "put-together" than I do.


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## smkeller

'What I really want to know.......If I am invisible... like so many, Why do I worry about becoming fat? '

LOL, take heart, you can never become completely invisible if you have a sense of humor!


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## smkeller

lagoloo said:


> Ah, dim sun. Memories of San Francisco. Around lakeside, an enterprising person has been been making some fairly nice packages of a dozen potstickers. Not quite there, but not bad. Then a friend tried something from, of all places, Costco, under the Royal Asia brand, which alleged to contain none of that nasty stuff like MSG...


Just as a curious side note. MSG was given a bad rap by mistake. It never has been bad for consumption. In fact, besides the sweet, sour, bitter and salty taste buds on our tongues, we also have one more - for gultimate. This one enhances all the others. Who knew?


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## citlali

I think the Chinese knew..MSG does give me a headache. Some people in Chiapas use a lo of it in the Tapachula area and they use it in Mexican food like the Soapa de Pan from San Cristobal..I forget what they call it but it is hs a Japanese name ..


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## lagoloo

MSG deserves it's bad rap, in many cases. When you get a helluva headache and your gut gets that bloated feeling...........it's not harmless.
It is purveyed to the public under a number of multiple syllable names you need a magnifying glass to read on the list of ingredients.
One of these days, I figger the FDA will break down and tell us the truth about it, as in so many things they've kept covered as a result of lobbying. It's been the mouse watching the cheese for years. Grrr


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## citlali

I remember now it is called ajimoto, which I believe is the name of the company tat came out with it or at least it is part of the name of the company..


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## GARYJ65

Ajinomoto


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## citlali

yes thank you.


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## GARYJ65

Msg is a food flavor enhancer, very effective, but many people are allergic to it


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## lagoloo

That's what it's supposed to do, but if many people are allergic to it, what the hay is it doing on most of the food on the shelves as well as in restaurants* with no warning?*

Why don't they make food with old fashioned good flavors? Probably because tossing in the MSG and its brethren is ............CHEAPER.


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## RVGRINGO

Allergies are on the increase everywhere. Why? Because in the old days the truly allergic did not make it to breeding age. Now, we are defeating the natural progression of evolution. Soon, everyone will be allergic to everything and the problem will be solved.


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## lagoloo

Now, that's really cynical, RV.
In the olden days, people weren't being *deceptively * fed crap. They ate real food. It's no wonder we're developing new "allergies" in our world. For instance, I recently read that they feed salmon on chicken crap in some of those farms. Seriously. If you saw a modern chicken farm itself, you'd gag. How many people know that the commercial "veggie burgers" have no veggies: just chemicals?
But, given the way things are, people will probably drop dead before reaching breeding age.

Personally, the ONLY thing I'm allergic to is MSG, which was never heard of when I was a puppy, and I've already "bred".............but I feel badly for the coming population, many of whom don't even know what "real food" tastes like.


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## GARYJ65

Food quality is better now than before
I know many will disagree, but I am ready to explain why. Besides, I am a food production expert
We also have crap food, much more than before, we have options


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## lagoloo

The fact you are stating is no doubt true in its way, but that's not what's going wrong in general. So, good food is more available across the country due to modern transport methods, some more enlightened farming practices, etc.

That's not what I'm referring to. What I'm talking about is the kind of things that are being ADDED to real food before it reaches the consumer. Why do we need to spray apples to have "shine appeal"? 
Why do we have so many cereals that might as well be candy, due to added "corn syrup".
Why do we have such an obese population with more diabetics than ever before?
Why are little girls going through puberty as early as age seven?
And about a zillion more questions along all these lines.

Sure, people have choices about what they buy and of course, there's the farmers' markets where the prices are often out of reach of the less affluent. The fact remains that the population is getting fatter and sicker every year. While all this is happening, the television industry is bombarding the population with ads encouraging people to eat what's worst for them.

I say: "just follow the money", for the answer.


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## Anonimo

smkeller said:


> Just as a curious side note. MSG was given a bad rap by mistake. It never has been bad for consumption. In fact, besides the sweet, sour, bitter and salty taste buds on our tongues, we also have one more - for gultimate. This one enhances all the others. Who knew?


Umami?


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## Anonimo

*One Man's Meat is Another Man's Poisson*



GARYJ65 said:


> Msg is a food flavor enhancer, very effective, but many people are allergic to it


Parmesan cheese, soy sauce and other accepted as safe foods contain glutamate. Those, and Asian fish sauce. Probably Worcestershire sauce and more. And, of course, Knorr-Suiza brand Caldo de Pollo en Polvo. (Powdered chicken {and beef, and shrimp} base made by Knorr Suiza, or other, lesser known brands. It's ubiquitous in México.)

Here's what the Mayo Clinic says about MSG. But your personal reactions may vary, of course.

Wikipedia.org says: MSG is found in tomatoes, Parmesan, potatoes, mushrooms, and other vegetables and fruits."


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## lagoloo

But, as the Mayo clinic also says:

"The only way to prevent a reaction is to avoid foods containing MSG."

...Which is about all we really know.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> But, as the Mayo clinic also says:
> 
> "The only way to prevent a reaction is to avoid foods containing MSG."
> 
> ...Which is about all we really know.


Then one would have to avoid eating such common foods as ". . . tomatoes, Parmesan, potatoes, mushrooms, and other vegetables and fruits."


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> Then one would have to avoid eating such common foods as ". . . tomatoes, Parmesan, potatoes, mushrooms, and other vegetables and fruits."


How does the quantity of MSG occurring naturally in those plants compare to the quantity add to processed foods? Not a loaded question, I am curious to know?


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## GARYJ65

lagoloo said:


> The fact you are stating is no doubt true in its way, but that's not what's going wrong in general. So, good food is more available across the country due to modern transport methods, some more enlightened farming practices, etc. That's not what I'm referring to. What I'm talking about is the kind of things that are being ADDED to real food before it reaches the consumer. Why do we need to spray apples to have "shine appeal"? Why do we have so many cereals that might as well be candy, due to added "corn syrup". Why do we have such an obese population with more diabetics than ever before? Why are little girls going through puberty as early as age seven? And about a zillion more questions along all these lines. Sure, people have choices about what they buy and of course, there's the farmers' markets where the prices are often out of reach of the less affluent. The fact remains that the population is getting fatter and sicker every year. While all this is happening, the television industry is bombarding the population with ads encouraging people to eat what's worst for them. I say: "just follow the money", for the answer.


We have many many more options on food, the question here is why would many people eat the wrong type?
Why are we, as population, not well informed about food quality? About nutrition
Things are changing, improving, today we don't have cigarettes ads as we did before, we know many more things are carcinogenic and we did not know that before, obese people cannot blame anyone but themselves about being fat, we always have choices
Tv ads are the ones to blame? Or people stupidity to follow them?
If the thing here is why do we have so many more options, that is a whole different discussion
Food quality is much better today
Humans are living much longer
Many Young people are taller, healthier
Today we are **** sapiens sapiens, evolution at its best, in the most cases


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## lagoloo

As has been true throughout human history, it's not possible to cure stupidity, which is not the same as lack of intelligence........... so I guess that is the answer to "why". We certainly have all the things available to live longer, healthier lives if we choose to.


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