# Death of a Spouse



## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

Hi Everyone,
I hope people won't mind me posting on here as I am not actually an expat (not yet anyway!) but I am writing on behalf of my elderly mother who is a long time resident in Campello, Alicante and has recently lost her husband of nearly 50 years.
Unfortunately, my poor mother is struggling to come to terms with living alone and dealing with her loss. At the same time, she is finding it very difficult to deal with all the legal/tax problems that this entails. I have visited twice to try and help but there are some issues we really don't know what to do about.
My parents bought their house in Spain in 1984 and have been living there permanently since 1995. Their house is in both their names, as is their bank account. Obviously, these now need to be officially changed to her name. She has no immediate plans to sell the house but has been told to get the house changed to her name will cost a lot of money (one friend said as much as €5,000, which is virtually all her savings). 
Obviously, this has upset her greatly and is the last thing she needs at this awful time.
Therefore I would be very grateful to anyone who could advise us on this and any other useful information she may need.
I should perhaps also point out that she is not officially resident in Spain even though it is the only property she possesses and she has been living there permanently since 1995.
Thanks again for any help anyone can give.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Corky01 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I hope people won't mind me posting on here as I am not actually an expat (not yet anyway!) but I am writing on behalf of my elderly mother who is a long time resident in Campello, Alicante and has recently lost her husband of nearly 50 years.
> Unfortunately, my poor mother is struggling to come to terms with living alone and dealing with her loss. At the same time, she is finding it very difficult to deal with all the legal/tax problems that this entails. I have visited twice to try and help but there are some issues we really don't know what to do about.
> My parents bought their house in Spain in 1984 and have been living there permanently since 1995. Their house is in both their names, as is their bank account. Obviously, these now need to be officially changed to her name. She has no immediate plans to sell the house but has been told to get the house changed to her name will cost a lot of money (one friend said as much as €5,000, which is virtually all her savings).
> ...


:welcome:

difficult situation & she really does need to get a gestor to help her here

do you mean she isn't registered as resident?

it will be more complicated if she isn't & they hadn't been submitting tax returns

what were they doing about healthcare? If they had access to the state system that would indicate that she probably is registered as resident


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

They definitely weren't registered as resident. They always used an E111 for health care and it appears my father never paid tax there despite assuring my mother that they were. She is very worried about this recent revelation too.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Corky01 said:


> They definitely weren't registered as resident. They always used an E111 for health care and it appears my father never paid tax there despite assuring my mother that they were. She is very worried about this recent revelation too.


well he most likely wouldn't have had to actually _pay _any tax, if they were living on pensions from the UK

it certainly won't help matters though 

you both really really need professional advice on this - a gestor is best, since they deal with these kinds of things on a daily basis & don't always cost the earth


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

Thank you for your reply.
Could you tell me what a Gestor is and how I might go about procurring one?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Corky01 said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> Could you tell me what a Gestor is and how I might go about procurring one?


Gestores are people who deal with paperwork - there's no English translation really, they don't exist in the UK

pretty much all businesses will use one, and lots of private individuals too - they will do 'one-off' jobs for you, or like my gestor does, almost run your life!!

they aren't lawyers or accountants, but usually work closely with them so have access to all the info & services

I'm sure if you ask around locally you can get recommendations - does your mum get out & about to ask, does she have friends who might know of one?


in my town they're on almost every corner - & in the Campello area I'm pretty certain you could find an English Speaking one


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

She is very active for her age, with some good friends. She probably knows all about them - just hasn't told me.
Are they expensive and, more importantly, reliable? Can they all be trusted? Are they registered in some way?


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

One piece of advice that may be helpful - don't tell the bank that her husband has died until she takes all the money out and puts it into an account in her name only (and any payments in are transferred such as pensions) as it is likely the account will be suspended until the formalities have been settled.


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

Thanks for that piece of advice. Actually, she was already advised to do that and indeed it proved apposite.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

I live in El Campello. We have used a Gestor in the town on several occasions. 

The name is Inmo Sanz y Gestiones Fiona. She is English and most of her staff speak very good English. They are an estate agent and gestoria

If you are in Campello, you will find them at C/ San Bartolomé, 128 (The main shopping street, the end nearest the port).

Their webpage is INMOSANZ. 
Their email is [email protected]


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## xocolate (Jan 12, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> Gestores are people who deal with paperwork


Noticed your location so I hope you don´t mind me asking if you could recommend me a good (English speaking one) in Javea?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xocolate said:


> Noticed your location so I hope you don´t mind me asking if you could recommend me a good (English speaking one) in Javea?


yes, mine - they don't all speak English but Moisés does

Asesoria Jávea Vera Cruanyes | Laboral, fiscal, mercantil, contable


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## xocolate (Jan 12, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> yes, mine - they don't all speak English


 and you send me to a page all in Spanish!  I can contact them using English then, can I? I´d be so grateful if this would be the case. I just have such a hard time learning Spanish... but I´d guess I´m not the only one.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xocolate said:


> and you send me to a page all in Spanish!  I can contact them using English then, can I? I´d be so grateful if this would be the case. I just have such a hard time learning Spanish... but I´d guess I´m not the only one.


Havent you got google translate on your PC??? Sadly, most businesses in Spain only write their websites in Spanish

Jo xxx


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## xocolate (Jan 12, 2013)

Well, I need to talk to one face to face and then Google translate isn´t of much help..kinda


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xocolate said:


> Well, I need to talk to one face to face and then Google translate isn´t of much help..kinda



Xabiachica did say that one within the group spoke English???

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xocolate said:


> Well, I need to talk to one face to face and then Google translate isn´t of much help..kinda


phone them

as I said, the gestor there, Moisés, speaks near-perfect English - one of the receptionists speaks some, too



naturallythe website is in Spanish....we're in Spain


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xocolate said:


> Well, I need to talk to one face to face and then Google translate isn´t of much help..kinda


For the webpage I think she meant...


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

xocolate said:


> and you send me to a page all in Spanish!  I can contact them using English then, can I? I´d be so grateful if this would be the case. *I just have such a hard time learning Spanish*... but I´d guess I´m not the only one.


Your profile says you are originally from Spain


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## xocolate (Jan 12, 2013)

DunWorkin said:


> Your profile says you are originally from Spain


baaah! no, I'm not originally from Spain, but I can´t change the bleepi´n profile until having posted a few more posts. I wrote Spain because I don´t like snooping  Love the sun tho! :yo:


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## xocolate (Jan 12, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> For the webpage I think she meant...


With friends like you, who needs NME:s!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Why don't people become resident with all that it entails-tax etc. if they are living here? I am really surprised that your mother has got away with using an E111 all that time for health care-I think it's illegal to do that. I believed they are tightening up on it now. As she is is not registered on the Spanish tax system she will not be eligible for all the concessions with inheritance tax and capital gains tax. She must have been wrongly advised when she moved here and it has not done her any favours. So many think they can live under the radar until it comes to death and selling a house. Some try and hide the fact that someone has died, but it is not a wise move-they will be found out. The tax office can now explore unpaid tax for more than four years back, and the new assets law is scary.


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2013)

extranjero said:


> .... can now explore unpaid tax for more than four years back, and the new assets law is scary.


What new assets law? Just getting back to things after six months away from exploring a future in Spain and clearly some things have changed. Not for the better!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

meetloaf said:


> What new assets law? Just getting back to things after six months away from exploring a future in Spain and clearly some things have changed. Not for the better!



http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...on-overseas-assets-spanish-tax-authority.html


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ll-your-details-heres-how-its-going-used.html


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

extranjero said:


> Why don't people become resident with all that it entails-tax etc. if they are living here? I am really surprised that your mother has got away with using an E111 all that time for health care-I think it's illegal to do that. I believed they are tightening up on it now. As she is is not registered on the Spanish tax system she will not be eligible for all the concessions with inheritance tax and capital gains tax. She must have been wrongly advised when she moved here and it has not done her any favours. So many think they can live under the radar until it comes to death and selling a house. Some try and hide the fact that someone has died, but it is not a wise move-they will be found out. The tax office can now explore unpaid tax for more than four years back, and the new assets law is scary.


I really don't know why my parents didn't become resident. As you say, they were clearly wrongly advised. I just assumed that they knew what they were doing.
With regard to inheritance tax and capital gains tax, does this apply to my mother as the house was jointly owned? If not, what costs will she have to pay? She has very little money saved and is worried that these expenses will clean her out. 
Is there a site in English where I can get some idea of the costs she might incur? For example, do the Spanish tax people have a dedicated site advising residents (and non-residents!) of their liabilities under local tax laws?
All this help is much appreciated, thanks.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Corky01 said:


> I really don't know why my parents didn't become resident. As you say, they were clearly wrongly advised. I just assumed that they knew what they were doing.
> With regard to inheritance tax and capital gains tax, does this apply to my mother as the house was jointly owned? If not, what costs will she have to pay? She has very little money saved and is worried that these expenses will clean her out.
> Is there a site in English where I can get some idea of the costs she might incur? For example, do the Spanish tax people have a dedicated site advising residents (and non-residents!) of their liabilities under local tax laws?
> All this help is much appreciated, thanks.


try this one
Spanish inheritance tax
If that doesn't have the info you want, just Google "Inheritance tax in Spain" and you'll find quite a few


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Corky-if your parents had been resident and fiscally resident, inheritance would have been much easier.
Your mother would have had a large allowance for IHT.If she sold the property, being over 65, tax resident, and lived in the house for over 3 years there would be no Capital gains tax.
Now, it looks as if there will be IHT as in Spain the tax is on the person not the estate and your fathers share of the house and possessions are not handed over free to the wife as in UK, it is taxed.I hope you find a good solicitor/tax accountant.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Corky01 said:


> I really don't know why my parents didn't become resident. As you say, they were clearly wrongly advised. I just assumed that they knew what they were doing.
> With regard to inheritance tax and capital gains tax, does this apply to my mother as the house was jointly owned? If not, what costs will she have to pay? She has very little money saved and is worried that these expenses will clean her out.
> Is there a site in English where I can get some idea of the costs she might incur? For example, do the Spanish tax people have a dedicated site advising residents (and non-residents!) of their liabilities under local tax laws?
> All this help is much appreciated, thanks.


For what its worth ....... we are about €70 kms from you. Some years ago a non resident residents husband died. She did all the correct things, and I believe there were no wills but the house was in joint names. She still lives in that house and paid no IHT. The whole matter was handled by a gestor, and the only proviso seemed to be at the time that she had to reside in the house for another 10 years.

So .... get her to go and see a gestor for a little advice as previously mentioned. Mine is in Gandia which is too far for her probably


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll speak to my mum and get her organised with a Gestor. It seems to be a bit of a legal minefield so a specialist is clearly the only answer.


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## Corky01 (Apr 13, 2013)

Just heard from my mother that she can expect to pay €2,000 for a lawyer to sort all this out. That seems very expensive. Is this about average in Spain?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Corky01 said:


> Just heard from my mother that she can expect to pay €2,000 for a lawyer to sort all this out. That seems very expensive. Is this about average in Spain?


I don't know, but gestor is different from laywer (abogado). I thought you were looking for a gestor?


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

It would appear that anything to do with officialdom costs. Yes, council tax may seem cheap but they have to get the money somehow and the way they do it in Spain is to charge for everything that involves a form or a stamp. Try asking for a breakdown of the costs before you make an agreement - it would be amusing to see how the price is arrived at.


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