# Working remotely and VISA restrictions for spouse



## lavidabuena (Nov 27, 2013)

Hello everyone 

I am a software developer and I'm looking into working remotely from home for a company based in the U.S. and obtain my visa to move to Spain and work from there.

My question: according to the salary I'll be earning I can satisfy the requirements for a non-lucrative visa but it seems I could also apply for an investors/self-employed visa... which one would be best to apply for? For a non-lucrative visa, can employment income count as your source of income for the income requirements?

I did my research and tried calling the consulate but, of course, contacting them is nearly impossible without setting up an appointment and talking to them in person.

My other question: I'll be bringing my spouse... it seems that by applying for either visa she would not be able to work for any Spanish employer. I can satisfy the income requirements for both of us so that's not an issue but she would still like to be able to work without having to wait 5 years to obtain permanent residency and THEN be able to work. She mentioned she can apply for a Tarjeta de Residencia Temporal (Temporary Residency Card) at a police station and that it would allow her to work but I don't see much documentation that supports this idea. Does anyone know if there is any way she'd be able to work with a dependent visa?

I already know about the employment situation in Spain and yes we both speak Spanish. So please stay on topic 

Thanks!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lavidabuena said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I am a software developer and I'm looking into working remotely from home for a company based in the U.S. and obtain my visa to move to Spain and work from there.
> 
> ...


you can't have a non-lucrative visa if you'll be working - even remotely for a company outside Spain

a non-lucrative visa means you can do _*no work of any description*_

if you are physically in Spain when you do the work you need a work visa

the company would need to apply for one for you with all the proof that no EU citizen could do the job etc etc


I'm not at all sure, if you managed to get a work visa, whether or not your wife would be able to work - I suspect not though

your local Spanish consulate really is the best & only real authority on this - the rules/requirements change & different consulates seem to have different requirements


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## lavidabuena (Nov 27, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> you can't have a non-lucrative visa if you'll be working - even remotely for a company outside Spain
> 
> a non-lucrative visa means you can do _*no work of any description*_
> 
> ...


I won't be working a Spanish company. Their office is in the U.S. so why would I need a work visa? There's no need to prove that a non-EU citizen can't do the job - anyone in the WORLD can do the job.

I appreciate your help but it seems like this is the default answer whenever any non-EU citizen mentions moving to somewhere within the EU.... even though, in this case a work visa does not pertain.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

Its the default answer because it is a fact. No work means no work regardless of where your employer is based. 
If you are physically in Spain and wanting to work any way you need a visa that allows employment. That requires a sponsor and they need to prove why they need you to do that work in Spain and not use a Spanish worker. 

Pretty much the same rules if I wanted to work in the US.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lavidabuena said:


> I won't be working a Spanish company. Their office is in the U.S. so why would I need a work visa? There's no need to prove that a non-EU citizen can't do the job - anyone in the WORLD can do the job.
> 
> I appreciate your help but it seems like this is the default answer whenever any non-EU citizen mentions moving to somewhere within the EU.... even though, in this case a work visa does not pertain.





_shel said:


> Its the default answer because it is a fact. No work means no work regardless of where your employer is based.
> If you are physically in Spain and wanting to work any way you need a visa that allows employment. That requires a sponsor and they need to prove why they need you to do that work in Spain and not use a Spanish worker.
> 
> Pretty much the same rules if I wanted to work in the US.


as _shel said - it simply IS that way


it doesn't matter where the company is - it's where YOU are that counts as far as Spain is concerned


if you are physically here for more than 90 days consecutively, you need a resident visa, as you know

if you are physically here for more than 183 days in a calendar year you are tax resident & would have to submit a tax return - & would have to declare that you are working

if YOU are here doing the work - then you're working in Spain - it's that simple - & therefore you need a visa which allows you to work


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

[I appear to have deleted the first attempt at this post.]

Sadly, the world of physical borders has not quite caught up to the reality of remote work in the internet world. 

The following advice probably breaks all kinds of rules and is likely to annoy a percentage of readers. However, based on experience elsewhere in the EU, I'd say you have two options:

1. Come over for 90 days as a tourist, maybe even twice per year following the 90/180 rule. Continue to work remotely. Tell nobody.

2. Go to the consulate and concoct some story about why you want/need to be in Spain for more than 90 days - improve your Spanish, paint watercolours, write a novel, whatever - then apply for a one-year non-lucrative visa. You'd need to prove sufficient assets to support yourself for 12 months, and health insurance. Then once you arrive, go back to working remotely. Tell nobody.

In neither case could your spouse obtain a work permit.

All that being said, I'd be curious to see what would happen if someone went to a consulate and asked: hey, I've got this great online job, I'd like to move to your country semi-permanently, I'll pay all my taxes etc. etc. so please can I have a visa? Sooner or later they will wake up to the fact that having well-paid web developers living year-round near their beaches is an economic benefit, and that it's not much different from the wealthy retirees they already accept.

PS It's a long shot, but if either of you has a university or academic connection, it's relatively easy to come over for a year or two as a researcher. You do need to prove means of support, of course, but in this case your domestic earnings might qualify. (Typically for university professors on sabbatical, you can live in X while being paid in Y, and are not considered tax resident by X even if you stay past 183 days.)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nononymous said:


> [I appear to have deleted the first attempt at this post.]
> 
> Sadly, the world of physical borders has not quite caught up to the reality of remote work in the internet world.
> 
> ...


the problem with much of this, is that it's skating pretty close to the wrong side of the law

coming for 90/180 twice a year is fine - doing any kind of work (other than the odd e-mail/phone call as you might if you run a business) ISN'T - as far as Spain is concerned - & questions DO get asked at borders, especially of younger people coming & going so frequently

you're right though that it would be great if there was a legal way to move here & work remotely - but atm there isn't - maybe one day there will be


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## lavidabuena (Nov 27, 2013)

Per the website of the Miami consulate regarding a WORK VISA: "This visa allows a person to work as an employee in a company located in Spain."

Link: Work Permit

Problem solved. *Moving on*... if anyone here has done or is doing remote work in Spain please chime in or send me a message! Thanks!


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

lavidabuena said:


> Per the website of the Miami consulate regarding a WORK VISA: "This visa allows a person to work as an employee in a *company located in Spain*."
> 
> Link: Work Permit
> 
> Problem solved. *Moving on*... if anyone here has done or is doing remote work in Spain please chime in or send me a message! Thanks!


 Your employing company is not located in Spain! 

The Application Form Requires specific information about the employing Spanish company and the visa can only be applied for AFTER their application for work authorisation has been approved. 

So not quite moving on


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## Claire la richarde (Jul 6, 2009)

lavidabuena said:


> Per the website of the Miami consulate regarding a WORK VISA: "This visa allows a person to work as an employee in a company located in Spain."
> 
> Link: Work Permit
> 
> Problem solved. *Moving on*... if anyone here has done or is doing remote work in Spain please chime in or send me a message! Thanks!


I was wondering, when you use the form (linked to above) to apply for a visa, how you were going to fill in section 27 "Data of employer or company in the case of application for residence and employment visa".


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

lavidabuena said:


> Per the website of the Miami consulate regarding a WORK VISA: "This visa allows a person to work as an employee in a company located in Spain."
> 
> Link: Work Permit
> 
> Problem solved. *Moving on*... if anyone here has done or is doing remote work in Spain please chime in or send me a message! Thanks!


Problem *not* solved. This also means that there is no visa that allows you to work in Spain for a company not located in Spain. Ergo, you cannot get a visa to live there and work remotely.

Options are:

1. Ask anyway, maybe you'll get lucky.

2. Try for a self-employed visa as a consultant, with the understanding that your US employer would be your client, not your employer (this is really just a variation of #1).

3. Attempt a quasi-illegal fudge (per earlier comment) for up to a year.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

lavidabuena said:


> Per the website of the Miami consulate regarding a WORK VISA: "This visa allows a person to work as an employee in a company located in Spain."
> 
> Link: Work Permit
> 
> Problem solved. *Moving on*... if anyone here has done or is doing remote work in Spain please chime in or send me a message! Thanks!


You said yourself, the company is located in the US - not Spain.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

lavidabuena said:


> Per the website of the Miami consulate regarding a WORK VISA: "This visa allows a person to work as an employee in a company located in Spain."
> 
> Link: Work Permit
> 
> Problem solved. *Moving on*... if anyone here has done or is doing remote work in Spain please chime in or send me a message! Thanks!


I do remote work and am required to be registered as self employed and all income must be declared and taxes must be paid to the Spanish authorities.


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## lavidabuena (Nov 27, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> I do remote work and am required to be registered as self employed and all income must be declared and taxes must be paid to the Spanish authorities.


Perfect  Thanks! So I assume your US employer does not remove federal income taxes from your paychecks? And when you file your yearly U.S tax return you claim to be working and paying taxes abroad?


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

elenetxu said:


> I do remote work and am required to be registered as self employed and all income must be declared and taxes must be paid to the Spanish authorities.


There you go. It is possible.

But just to be sure, did you obtain your residence permit exclusively as a US citizen supported by freelance work? Or do you have some other type of connection - family, another EU citizenship, whatever?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lavidabuena said:


> Perfect  Thanks! So I assume your US employer does not remove federal income taxes from your paychecks? And when you file your yearly U.S tax return you claim to be working and paying taxes abroad?


Her situation won't help you. She's already a legal resident here married to a Spaniard. She doesn't need to apply for a visa.


so you clearly can't apply for a work visa since the company isn't based in Spain, doesn't have a Spanish ID number & you therefore won't be able to answer that particular question, as Claire pointed out......


what's your next move?

we aren't being purposely difficult - just telling it as it is


if you find a LEGAL way of dealing with this a lot of other members of this & other forums would be delighted for you to share the info


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

I notice very early on you mentioned spouse rather than wife. If you are not married this will have an effect on your arrangements.


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## lavidabuena (Nov 27, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> Her situation won't help you. She's already a legal resident here married to a Spaniard. She doesn't need to apply for a visa.
> 
> 
> so you clearly can't apply for a work visa since the company isn't based in Spain, doesn't have a Spanish ID number & you therefore won't be able to answer that particular question, as Claire pointed out......
> ...


Will do. I'll be in Barcelona next month and I'm going to ask at the police station what is the correct move. I'll report my findings.



Calas felices said:


> I notice very early on you mentioned spouse rather than wife. If you are not married this will have an effect on your arrangements.


Yep we realize that. Thanks for the advice though. We are currently engaged and will be getting married before moving and before applying for any visa paperwork.

I checked EVERYWHERE to see if there is a minimum amount of time that you are required to be married in order to request a dependent visa but there is nothing I could find that indicates this. If anyone knows about this please share the information.

Nevertheless, we're not going to risk it and will be getting married soon to avoid any issues at the consulate.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Calas felices said:


> I notice very early on you mentioned spouse rather than wife. If you are not married this will have an effect on your arrangements.


Yes, it could help ..... If not marries already, the OP could marry a Spaniard, then be allowed to go through the process to become a dependant of a EU citizen......then work on the same basis as Elentxu!

I'm pretty sure Elentxu was trying to make the point that she has to obey the laws, and work by Spanish laws but the OP chose to read it otherwise. ... Apologies if I'm wrong.


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

No, there is no minimum time to be married to be able to apply for a dependant visa. 
But I'm fairly certain that whatever visa you apply for, it has to be done in the US before you come here. 
I can't see the police in Barcelona being any help, but be sure to keep us updated.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

@lavidabuena I think you're missing the point, or only seeing what you want to see. 

Based on what's been written, the poster @elenetxu appears to have legal status in Spain (residence and work permit) by virtue of marriage to a Spanish citizen. This gives her the right to live and work in Spain. She appears to work as a self-employed person with a US client (a.k.a. working remotely for an American employer) in a manner that is fully compliant with Spanish law. What you don't seem to accept is that the logic only works in one direction: as a US citizen she can work remotely only because she is entitled to live in Spain by virtue of marriage to a Spaniard; conversely she could not live and work in Spain solely because she's working remotely. That should be very straightforward.

I'm on your side here, it's something I've done in Germany (albeit using the academic route to get residence) and something I support, but you need to be realistic or it's not going to happen.


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## lavidabuena (Nov 27, 2013)

Nononymous said:


> @lavidabuena I think you're missing the point, or only seeing what you want to see.
> 
> Based on what's been written, the poster @elenetxu appears to have legal status in Spain (residence and work permit) by virtue of marriage to a Spanish citizen. This gives her the right to live and work in Spain. She appears to work as a self-employed person with a US client (a.k.a. working remotely for an American employer) in a manner that is fully compliant with Spanish law. What you don't seem to accept is that the logic only works in one direction: as a US citizen she can work remotely only because she is entitled to live in Spain by virtue of marriage to a Spaniard; conversely she could not live and work in Spain solely because she's working remotely. That should be very straightforward.
> 
> I'm on your side here, it's something I've done in Germany (albeit using the academic route to get residence) and something I support, but you need to be realistic or it's not going to happen.


I absolutely understand. Yes, it was a frustrating reality to face because many countries have not yet caught up to what it means to work remotely. However, I get now that I need official work authorization regardless of who I work for.

Thanks for your continued support and advice  I'll let everyone know what happens.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lavidabuena said:


> I absolutely understand.* Yes, it was a frustrating reality to face because many countries have not yet caught up to what it means to work remotely.* However, I get now that I need official work authorization regardless of who I work for.
> 
> Thanks for your continued support and advice  I'll let everyone know what happens.



an EU citizen can't just pitch up to live in the US to work remotely either................


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

brocher said:


> Yes, it could help ..... If not marries already, the OP could marry a Spaniard, then be allowed to go through the process to become a dependant of a EU citizen......then work on the same basis as Elentxu!
> 
> I'm pretty sure Elentxu was trying to make the point that she has to obey the laws, and work by Spanish laws but the OP chose to read it otherwise. ... *Apologies if I'm wrong.*


You are most definitely not wrong.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Nononymous said:


> @lavidabuena I think you're missing the point, or only seeing what you want to see.
> 
> Based on what's been written, the poster @elenetxu appears to have legal status in Spain (residence and work permit) by virtue of marriage to a Spanish citizen. This gives her the right to live and work in Spain. She appears to work as a self-employed person with a US client (a.k.a. working remotely for an American employer) in a manner that is fully compliant with Spanish law. What you don't seem to accept is that the logic only works in one direction: as a US citizen she can work remotely only because she is entitled to live in Spain by virtue of marriage to a Spaniard; conversely she could not live and work in Spain solely because she's working remotely. That should be very straightforward.
> 
> I'm on your side here, it's something I've done in Germany (albeit using the academic route to get residence) and something I support, but you need to be realistic or it's not going to happen.


I don't work for an American client, but I do work for other international clients. Everything must be done in compliance with Spanish laws, which includes: 
1. Applying to be self employed. 
2. Being "in the tax registry" for each activity I do
3. Declaring and paying all tax on the work that is done. 
4. Having legal papers to work in Spain. 

I am ONLY permitted to be here because I'm married to a local. Over the years I have had a number of good friends from the States who, despite being productive members of Spanish society, had to pick up and go home after their legal work gig was over despite job offers or their own ideas to start their own businesses. 

Immigration is a ... perra. A female dog. It's tough to get here and it's even worse to try to get into the States. If you've got a boatload of cash to invest in Spain (we're talking over a million) and you're willing to create x-number of jobs for the local, they will roll out the red carpet. Otherwise, it's tough cookies all around.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

This is why I recommend Berlin. I swear, an American or Canadian with a pulse and basic typing skills can get residence. It's easier than falling off a log.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Nononymous said:


> This is why I recommend Berlin. I swear, an American or Canadian with a pulse and basic typing skills can get residence. It's easier than falling off a log.


That is amazing. I wish I spoke German. 
(I do, however, get the feeling I'd like the south of Germany much more.)


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## adi700 (Apr 26, 2018)

lavidabuena said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I am a software developer and I'm looking into working remotely from home for a company based in the U.S. and obtain my visa to move to Spain and work from there.


Did you finally get to work for your remote company using your non-lucrative visa? I am in the same situation.


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