# Financial liability of marriage



## ExpatMRTW (Apr 3, 2016)

Hi there,

so, I had an interesting conversation with a friend and since I am not sure about the actual legal situation with regards to marriage to a Pinay, I thought to ask the experts here.

Essentially, I was told that once married to a Filipina, under Philippine law, all assets of the spouse would immediately be split 50/50.

I find that very hard to believe as:

a) Philippine authorities would have no jurisdiction to garnish my 401k and/or savings accounts and/or foreign income in the US (or elsewhere abroad). How could such garnish (or whatever the proper term is) be executed when either living in the Philippines or, even harder, abroad?

b) The net-worth accumulated as of the marriage going forward could be split (I actually agree to that to a certain extend); however, the net-worth accumulated up to the point of marriage would continue to be owned by the spouse individually (lets say assets in form of property and/or cash values in form of 401k/long term stock investments, cash savings, etc.

Now, I am not an expert whatsoever in that field and have never been married before.

I understand that marriage in the Philippines can only be annulled and that divorce is unlawful, which provides another layer of gray on this topic.

Wondering if anyone has an opinion on this topic.

Thanks in advance.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

I don't know the legal answer, but the money in the US would be hard for them to get to. You can get divorced outside the PIs, like in your home country. I doubt most retirement accounts would give her half. 

But I know that after marriage the husband and wife are seen as one financial entity. So any retirement money you have here would probably be half hers as of the date you marry. Also, any debt she accrues is half yours. Being a foreigner they would come after you for the money before her, maybe.

The way I look at it (again, not legal advice) is that a house here is legally both of yours, but realistically more hers. Your money is legally both of yours but realistically more yours.


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Not a lawyer either but here are my $.02....

As Tukaram said you can get divorced in your home country if need be. I do know that it is very hard to set up your wife (as a non-US Citizen) for any US Inheritances (Life Insurance, Bank Accounts, etc.). 

In the PI, I think that you are correct about post marital asset accumulation. Any property in the PI is primarily hers anyways due to the 51/49 percentage requirements. Should she die before you, it gets sticky on the inheritance of a property to a foreigner and is best to sell as soon as possible.


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## JRB__NW (Apr 8, 2015)

It wasn't clear from your post if you ever plan to bring her to the US. Since the US will recognize the marriage, it will subject you to the divorce rules applicable to your state of residence (usually entitles her to half the gains from marriage date onwards) and entitle her to death benefits (50%) from your retirement plans unless you specifically exclude her, although I can't imagine anyone doing that.

With regard to the post above, it's not difficult to add a non-citizen wife or girlfriend in the Philippines to your estate through a will or trust. The executor/trustee will just have to track them down and confirm all the details.


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

Let me pose this question, is it you who are going to get married in the near future?
Or is a question just a question for discussions sake?


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## ExpatMRTW (Apr 3, 2016)

Tukaram said:


> The way I look at it (again, not legal advice) is that a house here is legally both of yours, but realistically more hers. Your money is legally both of yours but realistically more yours.


That is what I would expect as well. 

Locals to have the upper hand on local rights/property/assets whereas foreigners have the realistic 'safe-haven' related to assets outside Philippines.


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## ExpatMRTW (Apr 3, 2016)

galactic said:


> Let me pose this question, is it you who are going to get married in the near future?
> Or is a question just a question for discussions sake?


The question is twofold: 

1. discussion between my friend who is living with a Pinay in Singapore since a few years and refuses to marriage due to the liability (he is planning to move to PI midterm)

2. My own interest being with a Pinay for sometime though no marriage plans in sight.


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## ExpatMRTW (Apr 3, 2016)

JRB__NW said:


> It wasn't clear from your post if you ever plan to bring her to the US. Since the US will recognize the marriage, it will subject you to the divorce rules applicable to your state of residence (usually entitles her to half the gains from marriage date onwards) and entitle her to death benefits (50%) from your retirement plans unless you specifically exclude her, although I can't imagine anyone doing that.
> 
> With regard to the post above, it's not difficult to add a non-citizen wife or girlfriend in the Philippines to your estate through a will or trust. The executor/trustee will just have to track them down and confirm all the details.


No concrete plans for us yet but we both would most likely stay in PI or rather go to Europe as oppose to the US... but again, that is not yet on the radar on that detailed level.


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## ExpatMRTW (Apr 3, 2016)

jon1 said:


> In the PI, I think that you are correct about post marital asset accumulation. Any property in the PI is primarily hers anyways due to the 51/49 percentage requirements. Should she die before you, it gets sticky on the inheritance of a property to a foreigner and is best to sell as soon as possible.


Again, that is my understanding as well.

Basically local rights as a foreigner are greatly diminished and a split would pose financial risk within the PI.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

It would all be governed by the Philippine family code.


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## expatuk2016 (Mar 20, 2016)

To the best of my understanding my position is this the home is split 50/50 I have no assets in the UK other than a small monthly private pension which is paid into a UK bank.And another private pension which is paid every march into my Philippines bank.
we have a new car which we have put into the sisters name and we pay the monthly payment into her bank. our home is worth around 1.5 million pesos .
Overall I paid around 80% of the home and the wife the other 20%
but since we married from day 1 it has never been my money or her money in the UK we had a joint account.
only since we moved here to phil did we have seperate accts on the advice of the bank manager
Where we live is on the edge of Laguna de Bay and the land our home is is Government owned land as is most of the land on the edge of the bay.
even though we still pay taxes for the land etc etc yearly.
My wife also owns the family home which is worth around 1 million pesos but that will never be sold . so if the wife passes on before I do I will get only my UK Pension.
If I go before her she gets our home and 50% of my private pensions.
What we do for love ?


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Gary D said:


> It would all be governed by the Philippine family code.


And the Philippine Family Code puts us, being foreigners, at 5th place or thereabouts on the ranking of rights.

Fred


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## esv1226 (Mar 13, 2014)

If you put financial indicators to marrying a Filipina and living in the Philippines - you'll end up in the red. You can either forget it and stay away from the Philippines. Or, make sure the Filipina is rich or who earns more than you do. (Believe me they exist).

May I suggest? Use your money to ensure your marriage/happiness.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

esv1226 said:


> If you put financial indicators to marrying a Filipina and living in the Philippines - you'll end up in the red. You can either forget it and stay away from the Philippines. Or, make sure the Filipina is rich or who earns more than you do. (Believe me they exist).
> 
> May I suggest? Use your money to ensure your marriage/happiness.


Not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
Are you suggesting that unless you marry a Filipina that is rich, you will end up financially drained?
How would we use our money to ensure our marriage/happiness?


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## JRB__NW (Apr 8, 2015)

Buy flowers.. take her places.. haha. That's what I do with my woman.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

Sign a pre-nup.

Then you know exactly how the split will be handled.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Tiz said:


> Sign a pre-nup.
> 
> Then you know exactly how the split will be handled.


Do Prenuptial's actually work? I thought about this long and hard, lots of research led me to believe they are not worth the paper they are written on though some one more astute could advise otherwise I'm sure.

When I divorced some 11 years ago after 22 years of marriage the settlement was 60/40 in my ex wives favour, a million odd bucks and 20 grand a year child support, all good, we parted amicably and are still great friends and have 2 beautiful children, adults these days.
I did not begrudge the settlement as we built our wealth together over that 22 years.

But, and here is the but. My new Filipino partner of nearly 5 years had nothing when we met, I like most westerners, I had plenty. As said I talked about and looked at prenups, discussed this and the reasons why with my better half and it was not a problem for us to have counselling and seperate lawyers. We never did it, I hear you say fool or whatever but for me it was a no brainer, love and trust my partner and it is reciprocal, we are both adults and if ever we do part ways then I have had happiness and contentment with a decent human being.

Simply put I accept and can live with the consequences of employing trust in our relationship. I didn't and don't want to sabotage a great time in our lives.
In a few years when I retire (superannuation, no pension as too many assets, I think that's a 401 in the states) my better half will still be working as he does now in Australia. when we move there he will find a job and contribute to our home.

Talk to me in 10 years and see if it's still working. 

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I have to add that we are all unique and have different ideas and goals, this is only my opinion and the path we decided to travel, it's up to the individual to choose what is right for their circumstances obviously.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Scott E (Jun 1, 2015)

The Family Code says you must show evidence of "Fraudulent" circumstances to annul a Marriage ,, there are 6 types of fraud that are described in the Family Code , 1 has to do with a medical outlook of the situation !!
As for any properties involved ,, well that depends ,, You should be able to prove "WHO" financed said property and your name should be on the Title ,, The courts knows the deal with these foreign marriages !!


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Scott E said:


> As for any properties involved ,, well that depends ,, You should be able to prove "WHO" financed said property and your name should be on the Title ,, The courts knows the deal with these foreign marriages !!


The courts may know the deal but that is not relevant. To be practical about it the chances of a foreigner coming out ahead is very close to nil.

Fred


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## Scott E (Jun 1, 2015)

fmartin_gila said:


> The courts may know the deal but that is not relevant. To be practical about it the chances of a foreigner coming out ahead is very close to nil.
> 
> Fred


Not so ,, in the case of the Scam Marriage !!


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

fmartin_gila said:


> The courts may know the deal but that is not relevant. To be practical about it the chances of a foreigner coming out ahead is very close to nil.
> 
> Fred


I have to agree with Fred here. A scam (of most any kind) would be difficult to prove at best and here, the burden of proof is always double on or for a foreign citizen. So much so, that in most any case that goes to court or even the Brgy police for that matter will be decided in favor of the Filipino even with concrete evidence to the contrary.

With a pre-nup, all the Filipino has to do in court is claim he or she didn't understand it and signed the document "under duress" and bingo, the pre-nup is declared null and void.The Filipino gets the gold mine -- and the foreigner gets the shaft. (Pun Intended)


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Jet Lag said:


> I have to agree with Fred here. A scam (of most any kind) would be difficult to prove at best and here, the burden of proof is always double on or for a foreign citizen. So much so, that in most any case that goes to court or even the Brgy police for that matter will be decided in favor of the Filipino even with concrete evidence to the contrary.
> 
> With a pre-nup, all the Filipino has to do in court is claim he or she didn't understand it and signed the document "under duress" and bingo, the pre-nup is declared null and void.The Filipino gets the gold mine -- and the foreigner gets the shaft. (Pun Intended)


Probably true jet as I am unsure of the laws if any on prenups in the Philippines, I know with the little research I did that counselling is suggested on some sites but really the crux of the matter here in Oz is that both parties must by law have at arms length seperate lawyers (attorney) so the couple go into the prenup agreement with eyes wide open, maybe I am gullible but happy with my choice not to go down that path and well aware that if the fit hits the shan with us, I will come out of it a lot poorer.

In saying all this, rambling now, if we are together when I pass my better half will get the bulk of the estate anyway, lol, may as well hang around until the bitter end.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Scott E (Jun 1, 2015)

Annlument
http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/grounds-for-annulment-of-marriage-in-the-philippines/447/

SUBTITLE B. PROPERTY RIGHTS AND LIABILITIES CHAPTER 3. MARITAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND LIABILITIES 
page 28
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/SDocs/FAMILYCODE.pdf

There are Supreme Court cases which have favored foreigners ,, Find a good Atty. if you get into a jam up !!


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Scott E said:


> Annlument
> http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/grounds-for-annulment-of-marriage-in-the-philippines/447/
> 
> SUBTITLE B. PROPERTY RIGHTS AND LIABILITIES CHAPTER 3. MARITAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND LIABILITIES
> ...


Wow, I read for a while and though like Peyton Place I see the plight of what appears to be a great people suppressed by an archaic belief in a dying if not defunct system though some would beg to differ I am sure, hhmmm. A system created for the betterment of the few.

We have friends in PH. that are in similar situations, it goes on and on and is perpetuated by a legal system (the learned adults that are paid to sort this sh***t out) that is abused for their betterment instead of the suffering people. Another mark on my visa application? I don't care, there are plenty of people that would agree that in the 21st century the system stinks.
Glad I am gay and while accepted in PH, pushed into corner because it is too hard, we have no rights but our pesos are always accepted.

Cheers, Steve


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

bigpearl said:


> we have no rights but our pesos are always accepted.
> 
> Cheers, Steve


This just about covers it all. I sometimes have the feeling that we are begrudgingly accepted because of this.

Fred


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

fmartin_gila said:


> This just about covers it all. I sometimes have the feeling that we are begrudgingly accepted because of this.
> 
> Fred


Good point Fred, I have not looked at it that way before, begrudgingly/opportunistic yes/no maybe with some but not others. 
My personal experience tells me that my immediate family and friends there are not like that at all but that is for another post.

Cheers, Steve.


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