# Carte de séjour in France and EEA family permit



## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

Hello,

I have posted a few times before about my predicament, but will give you a brief synopsis - I am a UK citizen married to a US citizen. We are currently living near Beziers, France after making some unsuccessful visa applications in England. We are hoping to gain an EEA Family Permit and I had a few questions I was hoping you might be able to help us out with.

We chose France as it seemed the best option - not only was it close to home, but my family had some Expat contacts here as well. I was promised steady work, which would help me to meet the requirements necessary for exercising my economic treaty rights, but the people who I thought we could depend on have turned out to be completely unreliable, leaving us in a bit of a pickle.

Since my wife is a US citizen, I was under the impression that it was necessary for her to apply for a carte de sejour - this in and of itself has turned out to be a lengthy process as I am registered as an Auto-Entrepeneur and am currently trying to gather enough invoices together to prove that I am working and supporting us. 

My questions are these:

1. I have been told that invoices would suffice in lieu of the payslips required by the sous-prefecture as proof of income, but I would like to have this confirmed? I have a Contrat D'agent Commercial Exclusie as well as invoices for my work. 

2. Is it absolutely necessary for the non EU citizen in the relationship to have a carte de sejour before making the EEA Family Permit application? You can probably tell this is asked out of sheer desperation!

3. Would it be detrimental to our application if we attempted to apply without her having a carte de sejour?


Honestly, we are both at the end of our ropes here. We have reached out to people who have promised to help us every step of the way, but have turned out to be complete phonies. We feel stuck here now - we live in a small village, don't have transportation and have a pretty poor command of the French language - the main deciding factor for coming here was the promises of others and it has all turned out terribly. ANY advice or help you can offer would be amazing.

Thank you!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

As far as the application for a carte de séjour goes, it's kind of up to the local préfecture as to what they require in terms of "proof" that you are exercising your EU rights. If you are registered as an AE, do you have any confirmations of your declarations of revenue as an AE? That should work as well as producing your invoices.

As far as getting the EEA Family Permit, you may want to pose this question over in the British section of the forum. In fact, I will post a copy of this over there for you.
Cheers,
Bev


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Jrge should be home from work in a couple of hours (where he lives is GMT -7:00), so hopefully he'll mosey in soon-ish and answer your questions... he's a good sort in that regard.

*Hi, Jrge!*


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I believe for EEA family permit, local resident permit for the non-EEA family member isn't an absolute necessity, but I too would wait for Jrge to chip in.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


bunzidia said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have posted a few times before about my predicament, but will give you a brief synopsis - I am a UK citizen married to a US citizen. We are currently living near Beziers, France after making some unsuccessful visa applications in England. We are hoping to gain an EEA Family Permit and I had a few questions I was hoping you might be able to help us out with.
> 
> ...


1.- For as long as you have legal invoices and evidence of having paid corresponding taxes, then you are ready to apply.

2.- *NO, IT IS NOT*. However, it will expedite and facilitate the approval of her EEA-FP.

3.- *NO, IT WILL NOT*. However, read the above.

If there's something I have learned in life, is not to rely nor depend on anyone. 

(**WestCoastCanadianGirl** Whatssup girl?  nice to see ya back. Hope Ed is fine, and today I was granted PR status in Canada )

Animo
(Cheers)


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

Jrge said:


> If there's something I have learned in life, is not to rely nor depend on anyone.


*Jrge*, I couldn't agree more! It is a tough lesson to learn at anytime, but even more so when one is away from the comforts ans familiarities of home.

Thanks so much for all of your help and answers - everyone is so kind here and I just want to pass on our appreciatio to all of you.

We have all of our paperwork translated that needs translating, photocopies of everything, etc and we will make the application for the carte de sejour for my wife in a few days time, so fingers crossed! 

I have questions about the next steps we take after we receive the CDS - I had asked in another post and seem to have gotten mixed answers. Is it the VA5 form or the EEA2 that is applied for next?

If it is the VA5 we use next, it seems to say that the application can be made online rather than by mail - does anyone have any experience dealing with the Visa4UK website? Is it better/worse than a traditional application?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


bunzidia said:


> *Jrge*, I couldn't agree more! *It is a tough lesson to learn at anytime*, but even more so when one is away from the comforts ans familiarities of home.
> 
> Thanks so much for all of your help and answers - everyone is so kind here and I just want to pass on our appreciatio to all of you.
> 
> ...


Y'all first will apply on-line and will use form VAF5 and after being admitted to UK, she will apply for a Residence Card by using form EEA2.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

Cheers, Animo!

I had a few questions about filling in the VA5 paperwork and mailing it off versus making the application online - does one have an advantage over the other?

There seem to be a few bits in the paperwork which seem unclear to us - would it be ok to ask about them here or would it be better to start a new thread?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You *must *apply online, then print out the completed form and take it to your biometric appointment with your supporting documents.


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

Ah, ok - that makes a bit more sense to me now, thank you!

As for my questions regarding the online application -
1. When the form calls for a permanent address, do they mean our address in England or France? 
2. Is it detrimental to state that she intends to settle (for the question 'How long do you intend to stay?')
3. In the spouse/partner section, it seems unclear whether this part is for the person making the application or for the EEA citizen?
4. For the purpose of this form, would the sponsor be considered the same as the spouse? If not, would it help the application to have a sponsor?
5. For the question 'What do you plan to do in the UK?', she hopes to live and eventually find work - is this a sufficient answer?
6. Will the biometric registration be performed in Paris, or are there additional locations?

Kindest regards,
Rheiner


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

bunzidia said:


> Ah, ok - that makes a bit more sense to me now, thank you!
> 
> As for my questions regarding the online application -
> 1. When the form calls for a permanent address, do they mean our address in England or France?


When you are applying so in France.



> 2. Is it detrimental to state that she intends to settle (for the question 'How long do you intend to stay?')


No. Some don't want to settle but stay only as long as their EEA partner does.



> 3. In the spouse/partner section, it seems unclear whether this part is for the person making the application or for the EEA citizen?


EEA partner.



> 4. For the purpose of this form, would the sponsor be considered the same as the spouse? If not, would it help the application to have a sponsor?


EEA partner is always the sponsor.



> 5. For the question 'What do you plan to do in the UK?', she hopes to live and eventually find work - is this a sufficient answer?


To stay/live with EEA partner.



> 6. Will the biometric registration be performed in Paris, or are there additional locations?


Only in Paris, at visa application centre run by WorldBridge, 18 rue de Prony,
92600 Asnières-sur-Seine.


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks for helping to clear that up for us, Joppa!

If and when she recieves her CDS, we will immediately make the application for the VA5. After this has happened, we would very much like to travel to our home and family in the UK - do any of you see it presenting a problem if we were to travel from France to England whilst the VA5 form is being processed?

Again, she is an American citizen who has travelled with me to France - she didn't come here with any particular visa but has applied for a carte de sejour. We have been living and working here since July 2013.

Cheers and Happy New Year to you all!!


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

bunzidia said:


> Thanks for helping to clear that up for us, Joppa!
> 
> If and when she recieves her CDS, we will immediately make the application for the VA5. After this has happened, we would very much like to travel to our home and family in the UK - do any of you see it presenting a problem if we were to travel from France to England whilst the VA5 form is being processed?
> 
> ...


Happy New Year! 

Just checking: are you aware of the changes to how the UK deals with Surinder Singh applications that have come into effect today?

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...-living-uk/284442-surinder-singh-changes.html


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

Hello ALKB - no, we were not aware of the changes made to the Surinder Singh route. We read through your other post and the replies to it as well. 

We have dropped everything in the UK in order to move to France and try our best to meet the requirements laid out by the UKBA and have followed all of the suggestions made to us by the good people of these forums. We have come too far at this point to just give in, so we can only hope that what we have done (opening a bank account, renting a home, registering a business here and applying for the CDS) will still be sufficient. 

Thanks for the heads up - it is good to be informed! We will definitely give updates as to our progress and keep you in the loop when it comes to any decisions made in our case, lest it help others in a similar situation.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

bunzidia said:


> Hello ALKB - no, we were not aware of the changes made to the Surinder Singh route. We read through your other post and the replies to it as well.
> 
> We have dropped everything in the UK in order to move to France and try our best to meet the requirements laid out by the UKBA and have followed all of the suggestions made to us by the good people of these forums. We have come too far at this point to just give in, so we can only hope that what we have done (opening a bank account, renting a home, registering a business here and applying for the CDS) will still be sufficient.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up - it is good to be informed! We will definitely give updates as to our progress and keep you in the loop when it comes to any decisions made in our case, lest it help others in a similar situation.




Nyclon is the one to credit for the other post 

Just out of interest - how long have you been in France now?

It will be interesting to see how strict HO will be regarding this "transferring one's centre of life".

I was very surprised about this change of rules but have since learned that Denmark has had a similar viewpoint to Surinder Singh for several years now and the European Commission doesn't seem to find anything wrong with that... 

In any case, good luck!


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

*ALKB* - We have been in Roquebrun since July, so we are coming up to the 6 month mark very soon. As staying here is just a means to a hopeful end for us, we are very eager to get back home. It has been difficult for us to intergrate and while we have met some very friendly people, we have had a hard time trying to exist. Everything is made worse by our poor grasp of the language, no means of transport to/from a relatively remote village, a laptop that died once we arrived and a sudden lack of work due to unreliable contacts who promised to aide us if we came to this specific place... but I digress.

Since we have yet to reach the part of the process that deals with the EEA family permit or even the VA5 for that matter, we were hoping that once the CDS is recieved, that we could return to England for a few weeks to visit our family. Do you (or anyone else) think that this will cause us any aggravation if we were to take the trip - either at the borders or when the time comes to make the applications?


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

bunzidia said:


> *ALKB* - We have been in Roquebrun since July, so we are coming up to the 6 month mark very soon. As staying here is just a means to a hopeful end for us, we are very eager to get back home. It has been difficult for us to intergrate and while we have met some very friendly people, we have had a hard time trying to exist. Everything is made worse by our poor grasp of the language, no means of transport to/from a relatively remote village, a laptop that died once we arrived and a sudden lack of work due to unreliable contacts who promised to aide us if we came to this specific place... but I digress.
> 
> Since we have yet to reach the part of the process that deals with the EEA family permit or even the VA5 for that matter, we were hoping that once the CDS is recieved, that we could return to England for a few weeks to visit our family. Do you (or anyone else) think that this will cause us any aggravation if we were to take the trip - either at the borders or when the time comes to make the applications?


Sorry for the late reply!

Wow, that's a tiny place! I can see that expats probably struggle there quite a bit as soon as summer ends.

Am I understanding right that you want to visit the UK showing the CDS in order to get an A1 stamp at the border?

As you had a spouse visa rejection, I imagine that you might face some difficulties, especially with the new rules in effect - I don't think anybody has reported their experience with Surinder Singh/A1 since New Year. 

Why don't you apply for the EEA family permit first to be on the safe side? The UK Embassy/Consulate should get back to you within about 15 days.


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

bunzidia
allmodcons

Thanks for the reply 

In hindsight, I will be the first to admit our naivety in coming to Roquebrun - I had worked here about 8 years ago with my father doing some building work for some expats in the area and my father. From the few contacts we had made in the area (most of whom aren't actually here), we we were put in touch with an expat Englishman who owns a business in the village - we should've been wary, but promised to secure us a home and some work. He also put our minds at ease, saying that his sister had been through all of this before and that both he and she would assist us in any way possible in securing our Family permit. Sad to say that he turned out to be a complete liar and a bit of a drunk to boot, but unfortunately we had to find this out the hard way. Lesson learned, but you can probably gather that we are a tad bitter! 

My wife wasn't forcibly removed from the UK, but rather after recieving the visa refusal contacted the Home Office to arrange to leave on her own. We were told by the person handling her case that as she had elected to leave in this manner, that there would be no adverse marks on her passport. Whether that is entirely true or not remains to be seen.

We are still waiting on the CDS to arrive - we hope that it will arrive soon. Once she has it in her hands, we had thought that the next step was to make the VA5 application - is this the one that you are suggesting we go ahead and apply for?

We thought that we needed the CDS before doing this as with the previous visa refusals, showing that she had essentially set up residence in France would help her VA5 application greatly.

Again, please forgive my ignorance.... I feel only slightly ridiulous in asking what an A1 stamp is! We had hoped that once she had the CDS that we could book a flight back to England where we could visit our family and I could work for a couple of weeks before returning to France to make the application for the VA5. Of course, if it is better to wait until the VA5 is granted before we travel then we would much rather do that - we would hate to jeopardise anything!

I guess we were uncertain about the VA5 processing times and had this nightmare in our heads that it would take months and months to get one. I had checked the processing times online and it seems to vary wildly - anywhere from 5 days to 120 days! :O


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

bunzidia said:


> bunzidia
> allmodcons
> 
> Thanks for the reply
> ...


Oh my. hat sounds like quite an ordeal - I am so sorry this happened to you!




bunzidia said:


> My wife wasn't forcibly removed from the UK, but rather after recieving the visa refusal contacted the Home Office to arrange to leave on her own. We were told by the person handling her case that as she had elected to leave in this manner, that there would be no adverse marks on her passport. Whether that is entirely true or not remains to be seen.


As far as I know, any prior visa refusal leads to increased scrutiny of subsequent applications. Any application she makes from now on will not be seen as straightforward.

This is also why Americans with a spouse visa refusal are advised to apply for a visitor visa instead of counting on being admitted under the visa waiver programme to avoid being turned away at the border.




bunzidia said:


> We are still waiting on the CDS to arrive - we hope that it will arrive soon. Once she has it in her hands, we had thought that the next step was to make the VA5 application - is this the one that you are suggesting we go ahead and apply for?
> 
> We thought that we needed the CDS before doing this as with the previous visa refusals, showing that she had essentially set up residence in France would help her VA5 application greatly.


Yes, the VAF5 is the form you fill in to apply for the EEA family permit (EEA1, if you will  ) at the UK Embassy/Consulate. The CDS is not strictly a must-have but it is a nice, official confirmation that she is a permanent resident in France and the spouse of an economically active EEA partner. So, yes, having the CDS is a good thing. 

My area is more Germany than France and I am a bit bewildered by how long they take - in Germany it's more of a no-fuss attitude. But I have heard before that countries like Spain and Ireland also take ages to issue the residence card while Germany and Austria do it in a few weeks.




bunzidia said:


> Again, please forgive my ignorance.... I feel only slightly ridiulous in asking what an A1 stamp is! We had hoped that once she had the CDS that we could book a flight back to England where we could visit our family and I could work for a couple of weeks before returning to France to make the application for the VA5. Of course, if it is better to wait until the VA5 is granted before we travel then we would much rather do that - we would hate to jeopardise anything!


The Code A1 stamp is basically an EEA family permit issued on the spot at the border.

Now, I really don't know what to tell you with the new rules looming in the background. 

Even before, border officers were not very happy about issuing A1 stamps and I have no idea what they will now do with Surinder Singh cases.

Personally, I would not risk it, but that's up to you.

(Jrge, any thoughts on this? *meeps*)




bunzidia said:


> I guess we were uncertain about the VA5 processing times and had this nightmare in our heads that it would take months and months to get one. I had checked the processing times online and it seems to vary wildly - anywhere from 5 days to 120 days! :O


European regulation states 15 days and the UKBA statistics for visas issued in France show 99% of all EEA family permits issued in November within 15 days and 100% within 40 days.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/countries/france/processing-times1/?langname=UK English


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Sorry, it's actually Code 1A.


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## bunzidia (Jun 21, 2013)

My wife finally has her carte de sejour and we are now filling out the visa application online - hooray for progress! 

We had some additional questions on some of the more unclear parts of the application form:

In the "Questions about the EEA National" section -
1. She has marked my current work status as being Self-Employed, as I have registered as an auto-entrepeneur here in France. The next question asks for a National Insurance Number - do they mean my UK NIN or my French siret number?

2. "Who owns your home?" - Which home are they referring to? My UK home or my French house?

In the "Employment" section -
1. As my wife is currently unemployed, are we to assume that they are asking for her income at this point and not mine? Should she mark her income as what I earn? 

2. We both have some cash savings which we feel we should note on the application - will we be asked to prove that we have these savings and if so, how would that even be documented? They seem to want to know how she can afford her trip to the UK - can anyone give us an idea of what they will want, document-wise to back this up?

3. As her spouse, I am also her sponsor, correct? There is a section that asks for my country of residence - again, we are unclear as to whether she would mark this as the UK or France, as my home is in England but I have been living in France for the past 6 months in the hopes that she can gain a visa.


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