# Help with buying in Spain for first time



## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Hi All,

My and my girlfriend would like to buy a villa in Spain in around 2 - 3 years to live in full time. I would still work in the UK through the week, but Friday lunch time fly to Spain and Monday morning fly back to the UK.

We would also like to have a child at some point so would like somewhere with an English school would be a good shout as neither me or my girlfriend can speak Spanish very well.

Becasue I'd be flying so much we would need to have somewhere close to a main airport like Alicante where you can fly for cheap prices if booked in advance throughout the entire year.

We would like a property with at least three bedrooms and a swimming pool with a bit of a wow factor.

We could afford to pay around £150k in cash or around £300k if we got a mortgage.

We would like somewhere that you can sit outside by the pool and enjoy having freinds over for drinks and food with music on that doesn't disturb neighbours so not too close to another property, but also not out in the sticks miles away from anything.

Have been looking into this for around a year now and have found properties on rightmove that looked great at Camposol but then found out they are falling to bits and have also read that within the Valencian region you can easily jsut lose your property and get stung with charges for land grab.

Obviously this is all very off putting, but I'm hopeful that with the right homework all this can be avoided and we could still get a dream home to raise a family in the sun.

I just don't really know where to start that's all, I imagine there are area's which provide much better value for money so just after a bit of support really and the big things to steer clear from.

Thanks for reading and help would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Terence


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

terenceslattery said:


> My and my girlfriend would like to buy a villa in Spain in around 2 - 3 years to live in full time. I would still work in the UK through the week, but Friday lunch time fly to Spain and Monday morning fly back to the UK.


Hi Terence.

You need to think through the financial and tax implications of all this very carefully. You realise you'd have to pay Spanish taxes (as well as UK taxes)* on your UK income if your family were consider domiciled in Spain?

Two flights a week over a year is going to be a significant cost outlay as well as the time involved can you really afford to do this?

What you propose in terms of a Villa is perfectly doable within the budget and areas you mention but personally I think finding and locating the right property is the least of your concerns at this point. 

I'd be seriously crunching figures in terms of travel costs, taxes, health insurance for you and your family etc to see if this is really financially viable before I'd start looking at properties.

It's a brave, innovative and audacious plan. Seriously crunch the figures to see if it's really financially viable or not would be my advice.


*Just to stop the pedants from frothing at the mouth, this would be according to the double taxation agreement. You don't pay the same tax twice but would still be liable to Spanish taxes over and above that paid to HMRC whether claimed back or whatever.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> Hi Terence.
> 
> You need to think through the financial and tax implications of all this very carefully. You realise you'd have to pay Spanish taxes (as well as UK taxes)* on your UK income if your family were consider domiciled in Spain?
> 
> ...



Hi mate,

Thanks for the response.

Financially it would be okay.

I'm a self employed consultant that get's paid a day rate and can off set expenses against my limited company such as living and travel expenses in the UK to reduce the amount of corporation tax that I would need to pay and the rest of the profit after my small PAYE salary with tax and NI is deducted is paid to me as dividend payments with corporation tax deducted.

To break it down if I earn say £2500 a week I'll take home around £1900 a week so even if I paid for my flights out of my personal dividend payments which many budget airlines fly to the likes of Alicante such as Jet2 and Easyjet it still won't break the bank.

Also I'm aware of the double tax, but also know that they can be claimed back via my accountant.

The way we look at it is that most of my friends who do what I do for a living finish at lunch time on a Friday and get a train from say London for example up North to say Newcastle or Leeds and see their family then and Monday to Thursday stay in a hotel which is offset as a business expense to reduce corporation tax which is what we were going to do but thought it is actually in many cases cheaper and quicker to fly to Spain if booked in advance with a budget airline rather than get the train for four to five hours in England.

We are sure about it and really want to do it, the support we need is in knowing where to look for the best value for money and to not get caught with our pants down by making a beginners mistake when buying our first villa.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

What we want to do is find the best places based on what experienced ex pats like yourselves tell us, do a littel research, find some properties then over the next couple of year visit those places on holiday to get a good feel for them and then make the purchase you see.

We just feel that without knowing we could end up paying £x for a villa that paying £x for a different villa in a different area could have been a much better investment as not as popular a resort with tourists for example or would be safe from land grab etc.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

You don't like paying tax do you?

For someone as financially savvy as you appear to be, you won't make any mistakes buying anything in Spain.

Good luck!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Looks like you've got your financial head on but not the property one. A lot can happen in two or three years but just now prices are still falling. I would suggest you both rent a place for a year or two and retain mobility. You can fall in love with a house but things can change, the 'honeymoon' period wears off and your stuck with a house you will have a job selling. Rent, explore and experience different areas. Renting for a year or two will also give you time to understand Spain and realise if its really what you all want for the future.

If you have a child out there and they attend a Spanish school they will become bilingual...end up teaching mom and dad perhaps. If you think there is a chance of not staying in Spain in say ten years time then an International school is a better option. Some follow the UK exam routes, some now offer the International Baccalaureate. This is held in higher regard by many universities now than the 'A' level route. 

Good luck and keep planning


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

where exactly did you find out that houses on Camposol are falling down?
A very few houses have problems, not unique to any other urbanisation in the world.
I urge you to visit Camposol and see for yourself, don't listen to rumour mongers. I am surprised that you are willing to accept this untruth without proof! There are many houses in your price range, detached, with pool, good sized plots and many amenities.
The unspoiled port of Mazarron is a short drive away, with lovely beaches and new marina. There is the national park, and quaint villages, and lots of places to visit within easy reach. Everything you need is in this area.
By the way, do you really consider a monthly salary of £2,500 is small ?for some of us that is 3 months income!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

extranjero said:


> By the way, do you really consider a monthly salary of £2,500 is small ?for some of us that is 3 months income!


I think the figure stated was £2500 per WEEK (see post 3)


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> I think the figure stated was £2500 per WEEK (see post 3)


So a months income would be a years income for a lot of us!
I shouldn't bother coming to Spain-the taxman will love you!


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

extranjero said:


> I shouldn't bother coming to Spain-the taxman will love you!


He's hiding most of his income behind a UK Limited Company.

Mind you, investment income such as dividends are still taxed at between 21 - 27% with only €1,500 tax free which is still ouch but not as high as he'd be paying on PAYE.


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## wiseup (Oct 1, 2013)

Listen to Bob Bob come and try first , rent out, may seem ideal place now, but in 2-3years everything can change; tax levies , planning applications, political interference etc. Will the "cheapflights" wherever you get them from co-incide with your Monday & Friday requirements and even still, exist? Treat the girfriend to weekend visits in the meantime and look around.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Cheers for the advice guys, can you recommend any area's that are nice and reasonable in price, I had a look at a few in a place called Denia which appeared to be canny.

As for the Camposol post, I read on a forum how people have committed suicide living there and it's really grim and then someone posted a link to a video on youtube from the TV show, "homes from hell" the evidence was more than apparent that it's falling to bits, residents explained how they are living in hell and it looked very dangerous, here is the video.

Doh it won't let me post it yet, next post should allow.

If that ever happened I'd be devastated so thought I'd definitely stay away from there and any other places where stuff like that is happening, so just need a bit of advice on places really, but I fully intend to rent for a bit at the recommended places first prior to buying.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Nah it won't allow me, just go on google and search for camp arse hole, it will come up.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

I'll check out Mazarron now as well thanks.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Don't rule out the islands, Mallorca is very "international" and has excellent flight links to the UK. It's more expensive than many places but that doesn't seem to be a problem for you. 

I've just spent a week there and fell in love with the capital, Palma, which has something for everyone. I would avoid Magaluf though ...


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Don't rule out the islands, Mallorca is very "international" and has excellent flight links to the UK. It's more expensive than many places but that doesn't seem to be a problem for you.
> 
> I've just spent a week there and fell in love with the capital, Palma, which has something for everyone. I would avoid Magaluf though ...


Just checked but way too far out my price rage I'm afraid, cheapest three bedroom villa in Palma is > £1m on rightmove.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Forget Rightmove, try the Spanish website Fotocasa - you can select your price range, no of bedrooms and area. They aren't all for millionaires!

venta de Viviendas en Palma de Mallorca | Fotocasa.es


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

terenceslattery said:


> Nah it won't allow me, just go on google and search for camp arse hole, it will come up.


Are you so gullible that you are influenced by a video?
I repeat, the properties affected were a very small number, and the problems hyped up for the documentary.The vast majority are established and absolutely fine.
I have lived on Camposol for 12 years and I know what I'm talking about.
You would be shown fantastic properties in your price range.
You should come and see for yourself!


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

extranjero said:


> Are you so gullible that you are influenced by a video?
> I repeat, the properties affected were a very small number, and the problems hyped up for the documentary.The vast majority are established and absolutely fine.
> I have lived on Camposol for 12 years and I know what I'm talking about.
> You would be shown fantastic properties in your price range.
> You should come and see for yourself!


I don't think seeing video footage like that of residents showing you how their houses are falling apart following on from heavy rain as well as comments from people on forums stating people are devastated after purchasing properties there and know people who have committed suicide and where you can see the ground has completely came away from the properties makes me gullible for thinking it's somewhere to stay clear from in all honesty...

Whilst I also understand that the urbanisation is very large and only around 1 - 2% of the homes were impacted by this it's still enough to put you off without being gullible, come on man give is a break. I had my heart on Camposol when I first seen the properties until I witnessed that video and are you telling me that you wouldn't have been put off by that video. Personally I would think it's more naive to go ahead like everything is fine and dandy as apposed to gullible for sparing wide. 

I appreciate what you are saying though and if it really is fine then I'd be prepared to take a holiday there and check it out more thoroughly as to be honest the properties I looked at online appeared to be fantastic, so me and my girlfriend were devastated when we seen the video as I'm sure for the 1 - 2 % of people impacted by the subsidence the properties they bought also looked amazing when they bought their property at Camposol until they started falling to bits.

Weren't it the same construction company who built them all so the potential that the others are just ticking time bombs, that's what I'd be apprehensive of?

Also I didn't mean to be disrespectful to your home when I mentioned it, but it's certainly worth calling out as even if hyped up for the documentary some of that footage is pretty indisputably shocking mate.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Forget Rightmove, try the Spanish website Fotocasa - you can select your price range, no of bedrooms and area. They aren't all for millionaires!
> 
> venta de Viviendas en Palma de Mallorca | Fotocasa.es


Champion, I'll check it out, cheers mate.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Forget Rightmove, try the Spanish website Fotocasa - you can select your price range, no of bedrooms and area. They aren't all for millionaires!
> 
> venta de Viviendas en Palma de Mallorca | Fotocasa.es


That site is amazing, cheers mate, far better value for money as apposed to rightmove.


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## keith277 (Jun 27, 2013)

terenceslattery said:


> That site is amazing, cheers mate, far better value for money as apposed to rightmove.


Look at areas such as Algaida...its 10 - 15 mins from the airport, not touristy and you get a lot more for your money, slightly isolated from the ex pat communities such as Clavia / Santa Ponsa and the south west but nowhere is that far on the island.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

terenceslattery said:


> I don't think seeing video footage like that of residents showing you how their houses are falling apart following on from heavy rain as well as comments from people on forums stating people are devastated after purchasing properties there and know people who have committed suicide and where you can see the ground has completely came away from the properties makes me gullible for thinking it's somewhere to stay clear from in all honesty...
> 
> Whilst I also understand that the urbanisation is very large and only around 1 - 2% of the homes were impacted by this it's still enough to put you off without being gullible, come on man give is a break. I had my heart on Camposol when I first seen the properties until I witnessed that video and are you telling me that you wouldn't have been put off by that video. Personally I would think it's more naive to go ahead like everything is fine and dandy as apposed to gullible for sparing wide.
> 
> ...


I saw the programme when it was shown on ITV,"Homes from Hell "
I think if my home was going to develop problems like those, it would have shown signs of it by now, after 12 years? Those on A are 14 years old now, and no significant problems. No shortage of potential buyers, and do you know the most popular area? On D, where that film was made. It is a huge poligono and that area affected was a tiny one.
Any area you look at will have some history of houses with problems, but they won't tell you!
Never heard of any suicides!
What have you got to lose by coming here and visiting different parts


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

extranjero said:


> I saw the programme when it was shown on ITV,"Homes from Hell "
> I think if my home was going to develop problems like those, it would have shown signs of it by now, after 12 years? Those on A are 14 years old now, and no significant problems. No shortage of potential buyers, and do you know the most popular area? On D, where that film was made. It is a huge poligono and that area affected was a tiny one.
> Any area you look at will have some history of houses with problems, but they won't tell you!
> Never heard of any suicides!
> What have you got to lose by coming here and visiting different parts


Aye ya should be alreet if it's been up for 12 years you would think like.

I'll have a look and see what I think cheers.

One of the things that's a bit off piutting from photos is that they all seem quite close together so you could get complaints about having music playing out by pool when late, are there any larger plots on the urbanisation that are a bit more out of the way from the other houses or are they all okay for stuff like that?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

terenceslattery said:


> Aye ya should be alreet if it's been up for 12 years you would think like.
> 
> I'll have a look and see what I think cheers.
> 
> One of the things that's a bit off piutting from photos is that they all seem quite close together so you could get complaints about having music playing out by pool when late, are there any larger plots on the urbanisation that are a bit more out of the way from the other houses or are they all okay for stuff like that?


It's an urbanisation! Unless you buy a finca in the middle of nowhere you will hear music from neighbours at times, or various clubs, but there are rules. No one minds if a neighbour has a party-it's an occasional thing, and not a problem.Most of the time it is extremely quiet, and the noise comes from cicadas, or birds.Some plots are bigger, and situated on the outskirts of the urbanisation, some are more private than others, shaded by trees or due to their position. If you crave completeprivacy and peace, then look at villages, or remote areas, but if you are getting older then you may want to be nearer people.As I said, come and see for yourself!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

extranjero said:


> It's an urbanisation! Unless you buy a finca in the middle of nowhere you will hear music from neighbours at times, or various clubs, but there are rules. No one minds if a neighbour has a party-it's an occasional thing, and not a problem.Most of the time it is extremely quiet, and the noise comes from cicadas, or birds.Some plots are bigger, and situated on the outskirts of the urbanisation, some are more private than others, shaded by trees or due to their position.* If you crave complete privacy and peace, then look at villages,* or remote areas, but if you are getting older then you may want to be nearer people.As I said, come and see for yourself!


Privacy? in a village? not here. This is like the villages in Uk of old where everybody knows everybody else's business. They aren't being nosey, not in their eyes, they are taking an interest in their neighbours. If there is anything wrong, you don't need to ask, they'll be there to help.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Privacy? in a village? not here. This is like the villages in Uk of old where everybody knows everybody else's business. They aren't being nosey, not in their eyes, they are taking an interest in their neighbours. If there is anything wrong, you don't need to ask, they'll be there to help.


Likewise peace and quiet, not in our village anyway. At feria time there is ear-splitting disco music blaring away till 6 am. Life is nocturnal in the summer, at 2 a.m. the old folks are having conversations from their balconies, families are sitting in the street with the telly in the doorway facing outwards, and kids are playing footie in the square.

It's a foreign country, they do things differently here - you just have to be flexible!


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Likewise peace and quiet, not in our village anyway. At feria time there is ear-splitting disco music blaring away till 6 am. Life is nocturnal in the summer, at 2 a.m. the old folks are having conversations from their balconies, families are sitting in the street with the telly in the doorway facing outwards, and kids are playing footie in the square.
> 
> It's a foreign country, they do things differently here - you just have to be flexible!


That's what I like the sound of, I'm more of a night person myself, I'm sure I'm an owl trapped in a mans body, I jsut wouldn't want to be upsetting neighbours by being sat out drinking a bottle of wine by the pool at 3 am with some music on so was thinking of trying to get something that doesn't disturb people wanting to get to sleep.


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

Take a look at places around Gran Alicant, Santa Pola. Really great value for money on properties, very close to the airport (10/15 mins drive) and Alicante City Centre (less than 20 mins). You mentioned Denia but if your going to be travelling quite alot from the UK, the last thing you would want is a 1 hour drive from the airport every time, it would be around a 200km round trip minimum each time.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

RichTUK said:


> Take a look at places around Gran Alicant, Santa Pola. Really great value for money on properties, very close to the airport (10/15 mins drive) and Alicante City Centre (less than 20 mins). You mentioned Denia but if your going to be travelling quite alot from the UK, the last thing you would want is a 1 hour drive from the airport every time, it would be around a 200km round trip minimum each time.


That's the kind of advice I'm after, cheers mate, that's brilliant.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> Champion, I'll check it out, cheers mate.


From someone who lived in the Northern Costa Blanca and travelled to Alicante Airport I have to say given the choice between the Denia area and The Alicante area I would not even think twice. People on here probably know I am not a great lover of the Alicante area. I always describe it as looking a bit like an industrial estate as you come up from the airport 

As you travel further north the countryside gets better and better, and thats not just me speaking ... that was the opinion of many of our visitors also.

The drive from Alicante upwards is not terribly long. It's an hour and 15 to Gandia which is further North than the Denia or Javea area. Imho the travel is worth it!


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> I always describe it as looking a bit like an industrial estate as you come up from the airport


But that's Elche... The only industrial part around here I can think of is the port, which for obvious reasons has a few cranes... and then the next industrial-ish looking area after that is around Benidorm which is miles away.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> From someone who lived in the Northern Costa Blanca and travelled to Alicante Airport I have to say given the choice between the Denia area and The Alicante area I would not even think twice. People on here probably know I am not a great lover of the Alicante area. I always describe it as looking a bit like an industrial estate as you come up from the airport
> 
> As you travel further north the countryside gets better and better, and thats not just me speaking ... that was the opinion of many of our visitors also.
> 
> The drive from Alicante upwards is not terribly long. It's an hour and 15 to Gandia which is further North than the Denia or Javea area. Imho the travel is worth it!


Yeah from the photo's I've looked at the Javea and Denia properties have looked more appealing, but the trip from Alicante airport does sound painful (just the Monday mornings really) but with having to be back in the UK around 11 am on a Monday morning for work the closer I can be to the airport the better really otherwise it means going back on a Sunday night.

There will be periods however between contracts where I will have prolonged periods in Spain where I might decide to take six weeks off work which makes it seem worthwhile. Villa's ion Denia and Javea around the £320k mark look outstanding like, had really been warming ot that area, but the ride had been playing on my mind and it will no doubt be longer on a hot bus...


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

terenceslattery said:


> Yeah from the photo's I've looked at the Javea and Denia properties have looked more appealing, but the trip from Alicante airport does sound painful (just the Monday mornings really) but with having to be back in the UK around 11 am on a Monday morning for work the closer I can be to the airport the better really otherwise it means going back on a Sunday night.
> 
> There will be periods however between contracts where I will have prolonged periods in Spain where I might decide to take six weeks off work which makes it seem worthwhile. Villa's ion Denia and Javea around the £320k mark look outstanding like, had really been warming ot that area, but the ride had been playing on my mind and it will no doubt be longer on a hot bus...


Easily longer if you get the Alsa buses, I used to get them from Alicante to Benidorm when I worked in Alfaz and that took around 45 mins, there are some that go to Denia I think but you will most likely either have to change in Benidorm (horrible bus station) or go from the Airport to Alicante bus station... or worst case is get the tram from Alicante to Denia which changes in Benidorm, which is every 30 mins from Alicante to Benidorm and takes around 1 hour and 10 mins or so and then the change from Benidorm to Denia is every hour. The trams dont run late though.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

****ing hell, Gandia is even better again, look at this man, 9 bedrooms and a tennis court for £300k! Cheers!

9 bedroom villa for sale in Valencia, Valencia, Gandía, Spain


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

terenceslattery said:


> ****ing hell, Gandia is even better again, look at this man, 9 bedrooms and a tennis court for £300k! Cheers!
> 
> 9 bedroom villa for sale in Valencia, Valencia, Gandía, Spain


Nice, might be worth looking at Pisos en alquiler en España, Madrid y Barcelona - Enalquiler.com and other spanish sites, they will have more options. Plus if that is split into 3 separate houses you might have a larger tax bill.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

RichTUK said:


> Nice, might be worth looking at Pisos en alquiler en España, Madrid y Barcelona - Enalquiler.com and other spanish sites, they will have more options. Plus if that is split into 3 separate houses you might have a larger tax bill.


Yeah worth checking out like, something like that would be ideal though, I mean that is the kind of thing I'd be ecstatic with. I could get my parents to sell and move over as well and put them in the side studio house and still have enough room to entertain friends and it looks amazing for bringing a kid up, pool, tennis court, not the concrete jungle I was dragged up in, that looks really beautiful, however I don't fancy paying three lots of taxes on it or something like that if that's what I get. :faint:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

terenceslattery said:


> ****ing hell, Gandia is even better again, look at this man, 9 bedrooms and a tennis court for £300k! Cheers!
> 
> 9 bedroom villa for sale in Valencia, Valencia, Gandía, Spain


I'd be tempted to get feet on the ground and look at what is being sold locally. Often stuff is put on Rightmove (a good site to AVOID) because it is mostly looked at by people who have more money than sense and tend to be more gullible, with the consequence that prices are inflated to what those people will pay. 

Fly over and either pick a centre roughly half-way between the airport and where you think you might like to live then work outwards from there, or stay two weeks and make it a two centre stay so that you can look at a wider area.

Make every effort you can to check the legalities surrounding any property before you commit yourself or part with any money. 

BUT be very very careful of agents who think they can play you for a patsy. If your Spanish isn't up to much, remember, you are more likely to be ripped off by the Brit you go to simply because he speaks your language. NEVER EVER fall for the one "There are a couple of other people interested in this property, so if you like it get a deposit put down today, etc" story.


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## stmary (Dec 30, 2012)

terenceslattery said:


> Cheers for the advice guys, can you recommend any area's that are nice and reasonable in price, I had a look at a few in a place called Denia which appeared to be canny.
> 
> As for the Camposol post, I read on a forum how people have committed suicide living there and it's really grim and then someone posted a link to a video on youtube from the TV show, "homes from hell" the evidence was more than apparent that it's falling to bits, residents explained how they are living in hell and it looked very dangerous, here is the video.
> 
> ...


Hi , we just got back from Spain , and went to camposol to see for yourself what all this camposol was about , so we got there drove over the mountains and down to camposol . We started in sector A , shops there need updating , so then went to sector B oh so nice , lovely bars restaurants and a fab big shopping supermarket sold everything you needed so wouldn't go hungry . We decided to go to sector C and D 
,you have to drive through a motorway that separates the 2 sectors, we drove to C and not bad we thought , then we drove round D ,thats where it came as shock , some little houses in a row on the outside of the urbanation all very tall weeds and grass growing in the gardens , not a soul in them , no electric in boxes and the roads in some parts of the urbanisation was like a field trip driving over the roads , with cracks and looking up the roads they were all wavy , we saw many a builder patching up walls and houses , But i must say some of the houses looked lovely and very nicely kept as the side if the roads , neighbours had planted flowers and gravel to look pretty .
But once there in Camposol if you don't drive or get too old to , your stuck , you might as well be on the moon , I know plenty brits live there and are very happy with their lot , but listen mate don't buy ........ and Yes Mazarron country club is lovely too , but nothing there , you also need a car , you can't even walk for paper .
Try punta prima , la zenia ,areas , the La zenia boulevard is great , everything you need and a mixture of spanish and brits .We would buy there and we have looked all over , so good luck with your journey and well done with your planning , take notice of the older members on here they also know what they are talking about .


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

stmary said:


> Hi , we just got back from Spain , and went to camposol to see for yourself what all this camposol was about , so we got there drove over the mountains and down to camposol . We started in sector A , shops there need updating , so then went to sector B oh so nice , lovely bars restaurants and a fab big shopping supermarket sold everything you needed so wouldn't go hungry . We decided to go to sector C and D
> ,you have to drive through a motorway that separates the 2 sectors, we drove to C and not bad we thought , then we drove round D ,thats where it came as shock , some little houses in a row on the outside of the urbanation all very tall weeds and grass growing in the gardens , not a soul in them , no electric in boxes and the roads in some parts of the urbanisation was like a field trip driving over the roads , with cracks and looking up the roads they were all wavy , we saw many a builder patching up walls and houses , But i must say some of the houses looked lovely and very nicely kept as the side if the roads , neighbours had planted flowers and gravel to look pretty .
> But once there in Camposol if you don't drive or get too old to , your stuck , you might as well be on the moon , I know plenty brits live there and are very happy with their lot , but listen mate don't buy ........ and Yes Mazarron country club is lovely too , but nothing there , you also need a car , you can't even walk for paper .
> Try punta prima , la zenia ,areas , the La zenia boulevard is great , everything you need and a mixture of spanish and brits .We would buy there and we have looked all over , so good luck with your journey and well done with your planning , take notice of the older members on here they also know what they are talking about .


Great stuff cheers mate, I'll check those area's out.

I think I need to make a real consious effort to learn the language over the next couple of years.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

stmary said:


> Hi , we just got back from Spain , and went to camposol to see for yourself what all this camposol was about , so we got there drove over the mountains and down to camposol . We started in sector A , shops there need updating , so then went to sector B oh so nice , lovely bars restaurants and a fab big shopping supermarket sold everything you needed so wouldn't go hungry . We decided to go to sector C and D
> ,you have to drive through a motorway that separates the 2 sectors, we drove to C and not bad we thought , then we drove round D ,thats where it came as shock , some little houses in a row on the outside of the urbanation all very tall weeds and grass growing in the gardens , not a soul in them , no electric in boxes and the roads in some parts of the urbanisation was like a field trip driving over the roads , with cracks and looking up the roads they were all wavy , we saw many a builder patching up walls and houses , But i must say some of the houses looked lovely and very nicely kept as the side if the roads , neighbours had planted flowers and gravel to look pretty .
> But once there in Camposol if you don't drive or get too old to , your stuck , you might as well be on the moon , I know plenty brits live there and are very happy with their lot , but listen mate don't buy ........ and Yes Mazarron country club is lovely too , but nothing there , you also need a car , you can't even walk for paper .
> Try punta prima , la zenia ,areas , the La zenia boulevard is great , everything you need and a mixture of spanish and brits .We would buy there and we have looked all over , so good luck with your journey and well done with your planning , take notice of the older members on here they also know what they are talking about .


I agree that if you live on C orvD you need a car; we live on B and shops are in easy reach as they are on A. As I said previously, there is a problem area on D-so don't look there, there are plenty of other villas in nice areas on Camposol without these problems, 
you will never find a perfect place anywhere in the world. There is no shortage of buyers on Camposol!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

RichTUK said:


> But that's Elche... The only industrial part around here I can think of is the port, which for obvious reasons has a few cranes... and then the next industrial-ish looking area after that is around Benidorm which is miles away.


Well ... you only have to drive up the motorway from the airport upwards and until you are past Alicante its very industrialised with areas of waste land.

The tram you mention btw is a proper train from Benidorm to denia


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> ****ing hell, Gandia is even better again, look at this man, 9 bedrooms and a tennis court for £300k! Cheers!
> 
> 9 bedroom villa for sale in Valencia, Valencia, Gandía, Spain


The further North you go the cheaper property gets.
A 4 bedroom two bathroom villa with stunning views, swimming pool sold recently near Oliva for €160,000. The area between Denia and Gandia is a great place to live, but as you rightly point out there is a price to pay with the trains and busses if you dont have a car. Having said that short term car hire HERE is another option where you can get a car for a week for €33 all in.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> The further North you go the cheaper property gets.
> A 4 bedroom two bathroom villa with stunning views, swimming pool sold recently near Oliva for €160,000. The area between Denia and Gandia is a great place to live, but as you rightly point out there is a price to pay with the trains and busses if you dont have a car. Having said that short term car hire HERE is another option where you can get a car for a week for €33 all in.



€33 is really cheap, thinking about it though my girlfriend could pick me up from the airport Friday lunch time and take me there Monday mornings as she will be staying in Spain so I wouldn't even mind the hours drive if you are going to save that much on the property.

What area's/villages such I search for between Denia and Gandia, I'm not sure of where to look for. TBH I'd be happy with both of those places and if there is something in between closer to Denia and with the low price of Gandia that would be superb.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Actually it's sound, I see El Verger, Oliva, Piles, Daimus, I'll check those out.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Javea is over the mountain from Denia, 
Elverger & Ondara are next to each other
The there is Oliva Gandia & La Font D'en Carros and Villalonga.

Oliva has the old town, the new town and the beach area
Gandia has the main town and the beach area
La Font is slightly inland, a nice town as is Villalonga

Piles and Daimus are part of a string of small places all joined together between Oliva and Gandia


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> Well ... you only have to drive up the motorway from the airport upwards and until you are past Alicante its very industrialised with areas of waste land.
> 
> The tram you mention btw is a proper train from Benidorm to denia


Well, from Benidorm to Denia is a train, yes but its very slow, very old and only runs once an hour. Once it gets taken off diesel and runs on electric which is in the pipeline (whenever that is) then it will be a tram.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

RichTUK said:


> Well, from Benidorm to Denia is a train, yes but its very slow, very old and only runs once an hour. Once it gets taken off diesel and runs on electric which is in the pipeline (whenever that is) then it will be a tram.


Thats progress ... eh?


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Okay guys, cheers for all the help with recommendation for areas to live, but things have picked up considerably after an idea I had last night.

The plan is to no longer buy, but to now rent until further notice (I know this sounds financially mental, but it's actually the more financially astute option in the long run as it allows the base savings amount to grow and with the compound interest it will man I can retire a lot earlier as the compound interest is far greater than the rent in say four or five years if I don't just spend say £170k on deposit in 3 years and keep saving at rate I am and investing in stocks through my IFA).

Now as long as I can persuade wor lass tonight, the plan is to move to Spain from just next year, wish me luck.

What I now need however is help in renting, what should I expect to pay per month on say a £250k villa in the regions we have been talking about, what are best agents to go through, any websites you can recommend etc?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> Okay guys, cheers for all the help with recommendation for areas to live, but things have picked up considerably after an idea I had last night.
> 
> The plan is to no longer buy, but to now rent until further notice (I know this sounds financially mental, but it's actually the more financially astute option in the long run as it allows the base savings amount to grow and with the compound interest it will man I can retire a lot earlier as the compound interest is far greater than the rent in say four or five years if I don't just spend say £170k on deposit in 3 years and keep saving at rate I am and investing in stocks through my IFA).
> 
> ...


That makes sense because more importantly you can look around whilst you are renting and choose an area you like.

You will have to declare that money to the Spanish Tax man though, and the interest it makes (when you hit the required time mark in a financial year)

Good luck by the way with trying to get some decent interest on your pot. Ive been trying to find somewhere for ages in the UK, and the best I can find is by opening a number of Santander 123 accounts @ 3%, but you can only get interest on the first £20k 
Long term with your money tied up for 1 year you cant do that much better and of course you can only put £5700 a year into a cash ISA, which of course you wont be able to open once you are a non UK resident


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> That makes sense because more importantly you can look around whilst you are renting and choose an area you like.
> 
> You will have to declare that money to the Spanish Tax man though, and the interest it makes (when you hit the required time mark in a financial year)
> 
> ...


Pay an IFA to manage your portfolio, don't use the pissy banks interest rates for saving mate. Gary from Close Brothers who used to work for E&Y is one I have had come very highly recommended from some accountants I know as being really good. My Dad had two IFA's and gets 10% on his £100k savings and my mates Dad manages IFA's and gives them advice and was speaking to a couple out on the drink in Newcastle and was advised getting 7% - 10% is easily achievable if you pay the right IFA and are preparred to let it wait.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Eh BTW I seen this, I know it's not sunny all year round which is a shame, but you can get to Girona airport dirt cheap from all over UK but look at this which is in budget.

Villa in Begur, Girona for long term rental


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> Pay an IFA to manage your portfolio, don't use the pissy banks interest rates for saving mate. Gary from Close Brothers who used to work for E&Y is one I have had come very highly recommended from some accountants I know as being really good. My Dad had two IFA's and gets 10% on his £100k savings and my mates Dad manages IFA's and gives them advice and was speaking to a couple out on the drink in Newcastle and was advised getting 7% - 10% is easily achievable if you pay the right IFA and are preparred to let it wait.


I have an IFA, but unfortunately over the last years since the beginning of the bank crisis things have not been so good until recently. At one point we were down around £30k, but it's recovered now. As you know even with investments, its never a sure fire guarantee.

Funds I have now are to do with villa sale funds, and to have a balanced portfolio I dont want to be putting more into investments as its short term until we buy another property in the UK

I repeat though, for your investments and cash you STILL have to declare to the Spanish Tax man or risk huge fines


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

terenceslattery said:


> Eh BTW I seen this, I know it's not sunny all year round which is a shame, but you can get to Girona airport dirt cheap from all over UK but look at this which is in budget.
> 
> Villa in Begur, Girona for long term rental


They don't seem to be able to make up their minds as to whether is is 4bed 4Bath
or 7 beds/baths.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> I have an IFA, but unfortunately over the last years since the beginning of the bank crisis things have not been so good until recently. At one point we were down around £30k, but it's recovered now. As you know even with investments, its never a sure fire guarantee.
> 
> Funds I have now are to do with villa sale funds, and to have a balanced portfolio I dont want to be putting more into investments as its short term until we buy another property in the UK
> 
> I repeat though, for your investments and cash you STILL have to declare to the Spanish Tax man or risk huge fines


i read something about this, really to umderstand more about the spanish taxes like, what are you being stiffed on from spanish taxman on assets and savings like?


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> I have an IFA, but unfortunately over the last years since the beginning of the bank crisis things have not been so good until recently. At one point we were down around £30k, but it's recovered now. As you know even with investments, its never a sure fire guarantee.
> 
> Funds I have now are to do with villa sale funds, and to have a balanced portfolio I dont want to be putting more into investments as its short term until we buy another property in the UK
> 
> I repeat though, for your investments and cash you STILL have to declare to the Spanish Tax man or risk huge fines


Should be to cover most of it from him as well with the help of a good accountant easily enough though do you think?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

No, I dont think you understand

A tax resident in Spain now has to declare their world wide assets in detail, including bank account numbers, property details, investment policy numbers etc etc. on forum Modelo 720. This is €50k per investment area. use the search on here for asset declaration and you can read more.

Tax free pension lump sums are generally taxable in Spain. CGT is payable on a second home.

No, I dont get stiffed by hacienda. I've moved away from Spain now for various reasons, but had I stayed I would have limited my visits there to less than half a year to avoid being tax resident there.

There are varying views as to the reasons why the asset declaration has to be so detailed and specific ... none of us really know which way it will go in the long term. 

There is a wealth tax in Spain as well on worldwide assets .. at the moment the level is so high that it wont affect most expats, but it used to be zero rated for all and was changed. Will it change again? Who knows.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> No, I dont think you understand
> 
> A tax resident in Spain now has to declare their world wide assets in detail, including bank account numbers, property details, investment policy numbers etc etc. on forum Modelo 720. This is €50k per investment area. use the search on here for asset declaration and you can read more.
> 
> ...


I meant to mention, the fines for not declaring your assets are horrendous


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> No, I dont think you understand
> 
> A tax resident in Spain now has to declare their world wide assets in detail, including bank account numbers, property details, investment policy numbers etc etc. on forum Modelo 720. This is €50k per investment area. use the search on here for asset declaration and you can read more.
> 
> ...



Bollocks, this has jsut put a dent into my plans, I hope it's still affordable. I'll look more into it cheers for the heads up mate.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

I think I might be alright.

Our lass doesn'/won't make much and if she is in Spain with our children she will be classed as a resident, however as I will work in the UK and fly to Spain on weekends I will only stay 3 days per week (Friday, Saturday & Sunday) then fly back to UK Monday morning so in essence I only stay in spain 3 * 52 = 156 days a year so my assets as a non resident shouldn't need to submitted if I'm understanding it correctly?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> I think I might be alright.
> 
> Our lass doesn'/won't make much and if she is in Spain with our children she will be classed as a resident, however as I will work in the UK and fly to Spain on weekends I will only stay 3 days per week (Friday, Saturday & Sunday) then fly back to UK Monday morning so in essence I only stay in spain 3 * 52 = 156 days a year so my assets as a non resident shouldn't need to submitted if I'm understanding it correctly?


Be careful, even though you may be here less than the 183 days you will (may?) be considered tax resident as your 'centre of interest' is in Spain. That is, if your family is here, and you spend a lot of time here, then the cards are stacked against you.

Also, are the assets in your sole name or joint? - this makes a difference.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Be careful, even though you may be here less than the 183 days you will (may?) be considered tax resident as your 'centre of interest' is in Spain. That is, if your family is here, and you spend a lot of time here, then the cards are stacked against you.
> 
> Also, are the assets in your sole name or joint? - this makes a difference.


in all honesty, even if he never/rarely visited, Spain would almost certainly consider him tax resident just because he supports a family here


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> I think I might be alright.
> 
> Our lass doesn'/won't make much and if she is in Spain with our children she will be classed as a resident, however as I will work in the UK and fly to Spain on weekends I will only stay 3 days per week (Friday, Saturday & Sunday) then fly back to UK Monday morning so in essence I only stay in spain 3 * 52 = 156 days a year so my assets as a non resident shouldn't need to submitted if I'm understanding it correctly?


I admire your ingenuity my friend, but ask yourself this. If someone who has happily lived in Spain for years decides that the only way he can possibly avoid being a tax resident in Spain is by just not being here for 6 months of the year, then thats pretty drastic isn't it. With the experience I had of Spain I investigated every avenue, and there was always a catch. Others have just highlighted the catch in your current plan.

I think you need to get this into perspective though, as I dont think this should necessarily put you off coming to Spain.

The asset declaration is only what you might perceive it to be. Many say that it's nothing, and just aimed at rich Spaniards. The "many" often though seem to be people with limited assets and so it doesnt really worry them anyway. Others say that its a plan for the future for the Spanish Government, and once they have your details then they can choose how to use them in the future. For instance ... you have a place in Spain and a house in the Uk you bought 30 years ago. The Spanish government only want you to declare the purchase price on your declaration. So what happens if you decide to sell it? The difference between the original purchase price and the sales price are subject to CGT?

You just need to be aware of what you are possibly putting yourself up for. I spent nearly 7 years in Spain and enjoyed every minute of it, even if some of it was stressful. As someone mentioned here once, Spain can make you nervous. I wouldn't have missed doing it though for one minute, and if you want to do it then plan properly. Maybe transfer some assets. Spread them out. Maybe you wont hit the €50k figure on a particular asset base. Know what to expect, and that will make it a more enjoyable time for you.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> I admire your ingenuity my friend, but ask yourself this. If someone who has happily lived in Spain for years decides that the only way he can possibly avoid being a tax resident in Spain is by just not being here for 6 months of the year, then thats pretty drastic isn't it. With the experience I had of Spain I investigated every avenue, and there was always a catch. Others have just highlighted the catch in your current plan.
> 
> I think you need to get this into perspective though, as I dont think this should necessarily put you off coming to Spain.
> 
> ...


Even if there had never been a 720, CGT would have to have been paid on a house sold in UK;The question is, would the seller have declared it?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

extranjero said:


> Even if there had never been a 720, CGT would have to have been paid on a house sold in UK;The question is, would the seller have declared it?


Yes, thats true but it was bought to the fore with the raft of other things at the same time in the 720 thing

Personally, I guess I would have been a little mift if I had owned a house for, say, 40 years and then had to pay CGT to the Spanish Authorities on the vale from 40 years ago ... but hey, thats a choice you make when moving to Spain and keeping it. You could always rent here instead.

Now, taxes being introduced _after_ I move to Spain or being re introduced .... thats something people have to make a choice about


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Okay so I think if I'm understanding it correctly this is just a bit of a big brother exercise and I'll not be taxed any more than I should be.

I'll give you a scenario and see if I'm accounting for everything okay.

My limited company earns £2000 per week. On that £2000 I pay for expenses in England such as 4 nights hotel, food for work, travel etc that comes to £300 which is relieved from corporate tax.

I am paid a salary £150 per week and pay no tax on it as under tax free HMRC threshold, but pay a small amount of NI on the PAYE salary.

This leaves say £1500 in my company account which I can subsequently pay myself as a director in the form of a dividend minus 20% corporate tax on leaving around £1200 for me to withdraw.

I then rent in Spain and pay Spanish bills for £300 per week with the remaining £900 being my disposable income.

I live in Spain on the Friday, Saturday and Sunday night and travel backto UK Monday morning where I work until Friday lunch time and repeat this cycle.

I declare annually to the Spanish Government my savings/stocks I have and how much my limited company has made that year.

As over whatever the upper annual tolerance is will I then subsequently be taxed from the Spanish on my assets I own such as stocks and bonds or do they just want to know to be nebby?

I am aware I will be required to pay both Spanish and UK tax, however the double taxation will be reimbursed so don't need to worry about that, it's just the asset declaration I need to know if I will get a further tax to pay on that as earned more than 50k euros or have stocks of over 50k euros?

Cheers guys,


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> Okay so I think if I'm understanding it correctly this is just a bit of a big brother exercise and I'll not be taxed any more than I should be.
> 
> I'll give you a scenario and see if I'm accounting for everything okay.
> 
> ...



I must have missed that (Ltd Company), for that may change things 
I ran a Ltd Company whilst in Spain for many years.
Constructive Accounting rules OK.
Employ your wife, using the allowance levels
Have a good expense account
Split the shareholding 50/50, 60/40 whatever you like to dilute the value

There is presently no wealth tax on your assets unless its over something like €750k. There is no tax on the actual asset as such even when it is over the €50k amount, just on income received.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> I must have missed that (Ltd Company), for that may change things
> I ran a Ltd Company whilst in Spain for many years.
> Constructive Accounting rules OK.
> Employ your wife, using the allowance levels
> ...


Sweet, plus I read wealth tax is gone in 2015 so if I was to accrue over 750k euro in future I should unless the law changes be okay on that as well.

Happy days, I'm well ready to go now, have enquired about that property in Girona today, waiting on a respnse from owner, hoping to move across at the start of December. Need to look into getting a Spanish Bank next.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> Sweet, plus I read wealth tax is gone in 2015 so if I was to accrue over 750k euro in future I should unless the law changes be okay on that as well.


Oh thats interesting news .... where did you hear that?
It doesn't really make sense for them to do it when they need all the tax income they can get.

It did get phased out for a few years as it was returned to zero, but they bought it back but with a high allowance. Iirc it needs a law change to actually abolish it


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> Oh thats interesting news .... where did you hear that?
> It doesn't really make sense for them to do it when they need all the tax income they can get.
> 
> It did get phased out for a few years as it was returned to zero, but they bought it back but with a high allowance. Iirc it needs a law change to actually abolish it


It's on here mate.

Wealth Tax In Spain | Lawyers, economists, accountants and fiscal advisors in Marbella, Costa del Sol

BTW people I'm really struggling finding somewhere to rent.

The place in Girona is only free from November to March so might go there for a couple of month and see if it's easier finding something when in Spain.

I want a contemporary villa like that one for a decent price, but it's not easy like, I've tried these two sites.

Pisos en alquiler en España, Madrid y Barcelona - Enalquiler.com
inmobiliarias, casas y pisos en venta en Espaa, alquila o compra tu piso o casa en Espaa

I can't find nowt though, also I read you need a Spanish bank account to get a place generally, but they don't give you one of them unless you have a fixed abode, wtf?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

terenceslattery said:


> It's on here mate.
> 
> Wealth Tax In Spain | Lawyers, economists, accountants and fiscal advisors in Marbella, Costa del Sol
> 
> ...


You can open a Spanish bank account as a non-resident and then convert it to a resident's account once you are here.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

terenceslattery said:


> It's on here mate.
> 
> Wealth Tax In Spain | Lawyers, economists, accountants and fiscal advisors in Marbella, Costa del Sol
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. I actually think what that means is that they are zero rating it again. their not getting rid of it, so it can be reinstated at any time they wish to in the future by just raising the rate from zero and applying whatever allowances they feel they want to.
Where specifically are you looking for rentals


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

terenceslattery said:


> It's on here mate. Wealth Tax In Spain | Lawyers, economists, accountants and fiscal advisors in Marbella, Costa del Sol


 Let us not forget that it was reintroduced for 2 years initially (2011/2012), and then extended for another year (2013), and now another (2014). Also the same as the temporary income tax increases, with personal tax allowances at the same levels as they were in 2007. So, will it disappear in 2015, maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't hold my breath. In any case, as Strav says, they just zero rate it, so it can be reintroduced at any time.


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## terenceslattery (Oct 1, 2013)

Well I've found a place and spoke with the owner who is really helpful. The place is in Coin in Malaga. It looks nowhere near as gangster as that one in Girona, however it's still pretty amazing and a lot easier to get to. Just waiting on finding out about the redundancy now and all going well I'll be putting the deposit down in the next three weeks and moving at the start of December. Here it is here, it actually looks a bit like Tony Soprano's house.










Thanks for all your help people, albeit temporarily until I start looking at NIE numbers and so on and get stuck again.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Have you got a big family


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> Have you got a big family


*he's got a big picture *that stops us reading posts with ease. 

Mods: We need some form of clipping device that restricts the size of posted pictures.


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## pizzacheaze (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi Terence, that place looks lovely, how did you get on??

Are congratulations in order??


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