# Warning: Zafarana Beach Resort



## Sam

For anybody who has either bought in this project or thinking to buy in this project, please be aware that a Dutch company known as IPI has been ILLEGALLY selling this project. The legitimate Egyptian developers have already established a court case against them.

For anybody who may be affected by this you may contact me for further information.

For anybody buying any property in Egypt please be aware of non-Egyptian representatives, especially agents marketing the project, signing the contract. They almost never have the authority to do so and a lot of people have lost money this way.


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## Eco-Mariner

Hi Sam.

From your personal opinion as an assistant to a property lawyer, why do you think Egyptian landowning developers always fall out with their marketing partners at the final hurdle?

They seem to work fine together while selling and taking client monies through the 2-3 years build, yet there always seems to be money issues at project completion and handover stages.

Regards.

Alan.


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## taflen

*Zafarana Beach Resort*

Hi Sam,
We have bought a 2 Bed Penthouse Apartment in Zafarana Beach Resort in 2007 and would be grateful for any information on the current situation as we are not being in formed by IPI 
Sue


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## Sam

taflen said:


> Hi Sam,
> We have bought a 2 Bed Penthouse Apartment in Zafarana Beach Resort in 2007 and would be grateful for any information on the current situation as we are not being in formed by IPI
> Sue



Hi Sue,

The current situation does not go in favour of IPI so it does not surprise me that they have not informed you. 

To put it simply, IPI had a marketing contract with the Egyptian developers to market the property at Zafarana. In addition to marketing the property IPI sold the property and signed contracts and they had no legal authority to do so, therefore every contract that has been signed by IPI is not worth the paper it is written on and every person who has a contract issued and signed by IPI does not legally own anything.

Owner's in this position are strongly encouraged to contact the Egyptian developers to arrange for a new contract to be issued.

Sam


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## Eco-Mariner

Hi Sam.

Does Zeiad now have a copy of the original partnership agreement that IPI had with the developer?

You may find the European party IPI had the necessary poa to work with client monies under the articles between the two parties. More likely the dispute was over what was in the bank holding account for clients (the profit share) and not just about the right to sign contracts.

Either way, owners once again are being sold a pack of lies and may have a dispute for years.

Alan.


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## Sam

Eco-Mariner said:


> Hi Sam.
> 
> Does Zeiad now have a copy of the original partnership agreement that IPI had with the developer?
> 
> You may find the European party IPI had the necessary poa to work with client monies under the articles between the two parties. More likely the dispute was over what was in the bank holding account for clients (the profit share) and not just about the right to sign contracts.
> 
> Either way, owners once again are being sold a pack of lies and may have a dispute for years.
> 
> Alan.



We have requested all the paperwork, and everything we have been provided with shows only that IPI and El Mohanad Real Estate had a marketing agreement. 

I would have to check what I am about to say later with the lawyer, but my understanding is that a PoA for such things in Egypt, i.e. authority to sell or administrative rights of an Egyptian company, can only be issued to another Egyptian, in which case _if_ there was a PoA it would not have been valid. But, I will have to check that later. As you know, I have been extensively trained, but am not a lawyer, so can only speak within the scope of what I know. 

What I know as a fact, is that IPI issued contracts and signed contracts and these contracts (the ones I've seen are not even in Arabic) and that these contracts are not recognised either in Egyptian law or by the Egyptian developers of the project. 

Anyway, as you say, whatever has happened between the developer and IPI in the past is irrelevant, what we care about are the owners who have invested their money into the project and for them to not lose it all. The most important thing is for each owner who has a contract with IPI and not the developer to contact the developer to get a new contract issued, otherwise they effectively own nothing.

As you have correctly said, the dispute between IPI and the developer may be lengthy. Should a case go ahead between owners and IPI to claim lost monies this may also be lengthy. BUT, my understanding is that the development is nearly complete, and IPI aside, if owners contact the developers, a new contract can be issued with relative ease and speed, and at least their loss can be minimalised and they can continue to take handover of the property they put money in to.


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## Eco-Mariner

Nicely put Sam.

What we all need to know is, did IPI have a "Practical Partnership" agreement which is effectively a 50/50 partnership in construction and marketing, or a Main Agency agreement which would be for promotion and administration only.

The concept of them being one and the same has confused many investors. Not least the dispute with WWD and El Riad (Desert Pearl projects), Sigma and Adley (Regency projects) and Estates Alliance with Iraida (Oasis projects).

The difference is that agents can take commissions and partners handling money can take a contractable share of income and profits because they had poa in the original formation of the company, irrespective of the nationality of the partner.


Alan.


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## taflen

Hi Sam

Thanks for info, much appreciated.

As mentioned by Alan in a previous post there are other similar disputes on-going. We are also involved in a similar dispute in Sahl Hasheesh, (Sunset Pearl) between WWD and Nagy Azab of the Pyramisa Group. In this instance we were advised by Grant Thornton, the accountants handling the liquidation of WWD, not to sign a contract with the Pyramisa group as we would then have two valid contracts for the same property. (Grant Thornton had appointed a representative with poa to assist purchasers to completion). This is still ongoing and we are wating for the outcome of an impending court case in Egypt.

The current sittuation with Zafarana is that, after failing to pay the second guaranteed rental payment, we threatened legal action against IPI. Ths resulted in a statement from IPI that if any purchaser commenced legal action against them, they would put the company into liquidation. This was followed by the issueing of a new contract. This contract if signed deffered any rental payments due, as well as removing you right to sue them. An additional insult was to ask for contrbutions to fight the legal case against EMR. 

All things considered I would like to contact EMR at this stage and ask for a new contract. I am not sure how to go about this as the only reference on my contract to EMR is the company name with no address or contact numbers.

Once again many thanks,

Regards

Sue


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## Sam

Eco-Mariner said:


> Nicely put Sam.
> 
> What we all need to know is, did IPI have a "Practical Partnership" agreement which is effectively a 50/50 partnership in construction and marketing, or a Main Agency agreement which would be for promotion and administration only.
> 
> The concept of them being one and the same has confused many investors. Not least the dispute with WWD and El Riad (Desert Pearl projects), Sigma and Adley (Regency projects) and Estates Alliance with Iraida (Oasis projects).
> 
> The difference is that agents can take commissions and partners handling money can take a contractable share of income and profits because they had poa in the original formation of the company, irrespective of the nationality of the partner.
> 
> 
> Alan.



Hi Alan,

I have enquired, and I can confirm that we have not been provided with the original contracted agreement between IPI and the developer. We also have not been presented with a PoA, if one existed (and I checked and it is possible to have issued a PoA to a non-Egyptian to do this).

However, again as I have mentioned, the papers as we see them are what counts. Even if IPI had a PoA to sign contracts, the contracts that were issued were issued by them and not by them in their capacity, so the contract is still illegal. 

Every investor should make sure that a due diligence check is done on a property by a reputable lawyer prior to buying. The most important things to check are ownership papers, first party within the contract to ensure the right person is signing (and within the right capacity if it is a representative of the owner) and the building license. It is also important to check taxes due on the property and the financial status, where possible.

Partners, agents, commissions etc are all irrelevant if the sale is illegal. As long as the transaction is legal, then money should only be transferred to the bank account, which should be mentioned in the contract, or a escrow account.

Sam


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## Sam

taflen said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> Thanks for info, much appreciated.
> 
> As mentioned by Alan in a previous post there are other similar disputes on-going. We are also involved in a similar dispute in Sahl Hasheesh, (Sunset Pearl) between WWD and Nagy Azab of the Pyramisa Group. In this instance we were advised by Grant Thornton, the accountants handling the liquidation of WWD, not to sign a contract with the Pyramisa group as we would then have two valid contracts for the same property. (Grant Thornton had appointed a representative with poa to assist purchasers to completion). This is still ongoing and we are wating for the outcome of an impending court case in Egypt.
> 
> The current sittuation with Zafarana is that, after failing to pay the second guaranteed rental payment, we threatened legal action against IPI. Ths resulted in a statement from IPI that if any purchaser commenced legal action against them, they would put the company into liquidation. This was followed by the issueing of a new contract. This contract if signed deffered any rental payments due, as well as removing you right to sue them. An additional insult was to ask for contrbutions to fight the legal case against EMR.
> 
> All things considered I would like to contact EMR at this stage and ask for a new contract. I am not sure how to go about this as the only reference on my contract to EMR is the company name with no address or contact numbers.
> 
> Once again many thanks,
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sue



Hi Sue,

I found their number searching on Google.

0224143978

Hope you can sort things out.

Sam


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## leeroberts

Hi All

Can anybody please tell me the state of play concerning Zafarana - what are people planning (will the court case in June be the final straw for one of the parties?).

From what I understand the contractual language wasn't as issue for the Egyptian authorities (as they want it localised)...

Please email me at [

Thanks
Lee


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## leeroberts

Hi Alan
What is the current thought on Zafarana - what do people or [ast experience say how this will fall?

Have the investors any comeback?

Thanks
Lee


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## taflen

Sam said:


> Hi Sue,
> 
> I found their number searching on Google.
> 
> 0224143978
> 
> Hope you can sort things out.
> 
> Sam


Hi Sam

I managed to contact the site manager for Zafarana who confirmed that my IPI contract was not legal. He told me that future events would depend on the outcome of the court case in June. Either all monies received (approx. 40-50% of that agreed) would be returned to IPI and all apartments remarketed, or new contracts would be offered to investors by EMR.

Regards Sue


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## leeroberts

Hi taflen
Very interesting response from the site manager (I think that was what Zafarana always needed - a site manager!)

But anyway, I have been in contact with IPI about Sam - they know of this individual as a rouge trying to persuade investors in Egyptian properties to get him to take up a case for them. He does know Egyptian law etc, but takes the monies (up front) from investors, gives them papers and then disappears....

I would hold off on using him. 

The issue about the non-localisation of the contract and whether IPI had POA - is not an issue now, as IPI have the legal documents for reselling and the TDA would of thrown it out from the start (the wording is what counts...not language - a contract is a contract - and what is coming from IPI - is that they have nothing to worry about, concerning the tightness of the wording).

The land belongs to the TDA (it is handed to parties to develop - EMR in this case) , until EMR fulfills it's obligation (build resort) to IPI\investors.....

I would take what is said here with a very large pinch of salt.....

Just a fact for others - IPI cleared EMR's outstanding debt (not so long ago too) - so EMR will have a few more questions to answer in court (if it goes that far) than IPI.

You have to remember that the timeline for Zafarana is now based around court dates (June hearing yes, then the court case for real a number of months later as both parties will need time to prepare their defenses)...you won't know the final outcome for the resort until maybe September this year!!!

Regards
Lee

PS I can be contacted at /SNIP/ if anybody wishes to discuss this any further!


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## samui13

*Crossed Wires perhaps*

Lee I think you may have got your wires crossed. Sam is in fact a She and yes she does know what she is talking about. Rogue!!!! Perhaps IPI may say that. It was the Law firm that Sam works for that that actually made IPI get the contracts in order for the Marsa Alam Beach Resort project which would probably have gone a very similar way had Zeiad not insisted on certain amendments to the contract. I was purchasing at Marsa and until the lawyer who Sam works for got involved, the contracts were very dodgy to say the least and not legal (for one they were not in Arabic and there were other issues like permissions) - I am not saying they were intentionally incorrect with a meaning that IPI were trying to cause problems, but I believe IPI have received some very very poor legal advice when it comes to Egyptian Contracts.

The lawyer worked through these problems with IPI to ensure that the purchase was a safe one. I actually pulled out because I didnt like the attitude of IPI when I asked valid questions (as directed by my lawyer) and I found them quite unprofessional and very rude at the time, however, they did correspond with my lawyer and managed to iron out all the issues for other purchasers (I believe their intentions were good but their law advice was very very bad).

Anyway when I pulled out of Marsa they basically told me to ****** off as they had plenty of other purchasers and they didnt care. I would quite like to phone them right now if they still think my lawyer didnt know what he was talking about which is what they suggested at the time when I pulled out.

Anyway each to their own but be careful when taking advice from IPI - they do not know the law as well as an Egyptian lawyer, which is probably how they come about to be stitched up in this mess in the first place.

Lou


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## leeroberts

Hi All
Not to sure on Sam - a nice profile picture etc. 

But I have my reservations about what she is saying - to me she is positioning herself or her lawyer company for work from our disaster!!!

I have heard it so many times on other forums - so negative - it's not as if this was the first Egyptian resort to be hood winked by a corrupt Egyptian builder!!!

To be honest it was so inevitable in the end what EMR was doing - they dragged it out so that IPI would have to pay late fees....but IPI got away with that....now EMR are taking them to court....for what? Money that is owed to them.....their late building has cost the investors money - EMR have come back to the steering committee - stating that they will finish the build for a fee (no IPI involved) - now WTF is that about...

I know this resort will get completed - might not be with the investors that started out, but it will be finished (in a number of years)!!!

You have to remember too, IPI cleared EMR's debts not so long ago....there was an outstanding bill on the land - EMR owed another developer money (IPI where not the first company to resell the apartments) - EMR has a track record....

Lee


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## Eco-Mariner

Not far off the truth my friend....

Alan.


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## samui13

"Not to sure on Sam - a nice profile picture etc"

er, I can confirm this is Sam, ive met her!!

"But I have my reservations about what she is saying - to me she is positioning herself or her lawyer company for work from our disaster!!!"

Zeiad and Sam have worked on IPI matters for a while. As mentioned they actually got the contracts legal for Marsa Beach Resort -otherwise right now purchasers probably would be going through very similar issues. Oh and before you think they are in it for the money they didnt charge most people for Marsa Beach Resort - Sneddons (IPI's recommended lawyer) were charging £1500 per purchase for their copy of the due diligence - not bad for a complex sold with full due diligence but then you had to pay for it - Sneddons must have done pretty well out of that with the few hundred flats sold. I wonder if Sneddons also did the due diligence for Zafarana?? Zeiad acted on behalf of a group and charged next to nothing - some people even got it for free.

I know IPI have probably been stitched up like a kipper in all of this but to be fair, when Zeiad was trying to advise me on my purchase, they really did not like being told that their contracts were not legal and the correct permissions were not in place. However, working with the clients and Zeiad, the contracts did eventually get sorted for Marsa and thats why I believe IPI's intentions are not necessarily bad, they have just become another victim of Egyptian scamming. However, when so much money was at stake, its hard to believe they used a UK solicitor who appears to have not fully known Egyptian Law (for instance they should have insisted that the contracts were both in Arabic and English). 

I do sincerely hope everyone gets their properties on Zafarana and I hope people take advice from the correct people (i.e. the lawyers who know what they are talking about, as, after all, this is how this mess got started in the first place.

Please dont discount or disregard people's offer to help. Their thread started with a warning to advise people of a situation about to arise and many people will be grateful for that. Use them if you wish, or do not use them and carry on as you are, but do not discredit them on an open forum for others to read, when you do not know the facts regarding Sam and Zeiad's legal practice. For instance referring to Sam as a man like you know who they are! People may interpret that as you have come across them and are well aware of who they are, which appears not to be the case.
Lou .


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## Sam

leeroberts said:


> Hi taflen
> Very interesting response from the site manager (I think that was what Zafarana always needed - a site manager!)
> 
> But anyway, I have been in contact with IPI about Sam - they know of this individual as a rouge trying to persuade investors in Egyptian properties to get him to take up a case for them. He does know Egyptian law etc, but takes the monies (up front) from investors, gives them papers and then disappears....
> 
> I would hold off on using him.
> 
> The issue about the non-localisation of the contract and whether IPI had POA - is not an issue now, as IPI have the legal documents for reselling and the TDA would of thrown it out from the start (the wording is what counts...not language - a contract is a contract - and what is coming from IPI - is that they have nothing to worry about, concerning the tightness of the wording).
> 
> The land belongs to the TDA (it is handed to parties to develop - EMR in this case) , until EMR fulfills it's obligation (build resort) to IPI\investors.....
> 
> I would take what is said here with a very large pinch of salt.....
> 
> Just a fact for others - IPI cleared EMR's outstanding debt (not so long ago too) - so EMR will have a few more questions to answer in court (if it goes that far) than IPI.
> 
> You have to remember that the timeline for Zafarana is now based around court dates (June hearing yes, then the court case for real a number of months later as both parties will need time to prepare their defenses)...you won't know the final outcome for the resort until maybe September this year!!!
> 
> Regards
> Lee
> 
> PS I can be contacted at /SNIP/ if anybody wishes to discuss this any further!




Wow, I see IPI clearly know all about me!!!!!!!!! Last time I looked down I was definitely female 

I would also hold off using this "Sam" fella too, sounds a bit shifty to me.


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## Sam

leeroberts said:


> Hi All
> Not to sure on Sam - a nice profile picture etc.
> 
> 
> Lee


Why thanks 

But anyway, I have no idea who you are or what your point is, so I don't really know why you have to be sure on me or not, I haven't asked anything from you, nor would I. Actually I haven't asked anything from anybody on this forum, so nobody has to be sure on me. I could well be a man using a fake profile pic, oh except for the fact I have met a few people who post here and Lou is my neighbour 

Anyway, I don't ever speak from an opinion, only facts. And fact of the matter is that IPI do not own the land and therefore do not own the right to sell the land or any building on said land. Regardless of any contract, PoA or whatever there may have been, the contracts between IPI and their purchasers were just that, IPI signed as themselves and not in any capacity on behalf of any owner, and that in Egyptian law, my friend, is illegal. So think of me what you want to, I don't take opinions myself.


@Sue (teflen) - I hope things work out for you and you can soon enjoy the property you intended to buy. If things work out for the best for you then I can be happy that my post here has helped someone.

@Lou - thanks for the support. Our law firm is not always the most popular amongst developers as we do not blindly accept clients to illegal projects when other lawyers do, so we are used to this kind of backlash. But, our firm has a lot of respect from developers and those with legal projects are proud to work with us. As are our clients when they are steered away from potential pitfalls. Look forward to seeing you again when you're next out!


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## Eco-Mariner

Hi Sam.
How are you?

I was reading your comment "IPI signed as themselves and not in any capacity on behalf of any owner, and that in Egyptian law, my friend, is illegal.".

So have you seen or read the original partnership contract between IPI and EMR when they created their relationship?

If an Article of Agreement actually states in their contracts of Association (and each party signs) that a poa is given to its partner (and an overseas partner in this case,) do you mean to say it is actually illegal in Egypt?

Alan.


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## Sam

Eco-Mariner said:


> Hi Sam.
> How are you?
> 
> I was reading your comment "IPI signed as themselves and not in any capacity on behalf of any owner, and that in Egyptian law, my friend, is illegal.".
> 
> So have you seen or read the original partnership contract between IPI and EMR when they created their relationship?
> 
> If an Article of Agreement actually states in their contracts of Association (and each party signs) that a poa is given to its partner (and an overseas partner in this case,) do you mean to say it is actually illegal in Egypt?
> 
> Alan.



Hi Alan,

I'm doing fine thanks  Hope all is well with you.

Let me give you an example of what I'm trying to say.

Mr. A owns a plot of land. As the owner Mr. A is entitled to sell said land or any building on it.

Mr. A grants to Mr. B a Power of Attorney allowing Mr. B to sign sales contracts on Mr. A's behalf.

Mr. B is now legally allowed to sign sales contracts as the _legal representative_ of Mr. A. If Mr. B signs a contract as himself and not in his capacity as a legal representative, then Mr. B does not have the legal right to do so, as Mr. B is not the owner, but a representative of the owner.

I hope that makes sense.

In answer to your question, I have not seen the original contract between EMR and IPI, but it does not affect the legal status of the contracts IPI signed, because IPI signed as themselves as though they were the owners not as representatives of the owners.

I hope that has clarified my point.

Sam


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## Eco-Mariner

It partly does Sam. 
However, without reading the exact words "as legal representative" or "as the company partner" as we become accustomed to in normal business, therefore we should not presume there was no such agreement.

I'm sure the lawyers of these large companies would have made sure this was the case prior to them commencing business. Written in both languages. Or do you think this was not correctly translated and conflict ensued?

Regards.

Alan.


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## leeroberts

I think I may owe Sam an apology.... from what i have learned in the last couple of days - it looks like IPI may not have been very truthful at all with the investors - in that they were going to make money resort built or not...
EMR bought the land and sold the apartments to IPI - who in turn sold the apartments to us the investors...for a huge profit. They have fallen out and EMR fancies it's chances in court over the translation of the contracts.......June will not be the end of it - this will go on for many months after June!!!


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## Sam

leeroberts said:


> I think I may owe Sam an apology.... from what i have learned in the last couple of days - it looks like IPI may not have been very truthful at all with the investors - in that they were going to make money resort built or not...
> EMR bought the land and sold the apartments to IPI - who in turn sold the apartments to us the investors...for a huge profit. They have fallen out and EMR fancies it's chances in court over the translation of the contracts.......June will not be the end of it - this will go on for many months after June!!!


I was not aware of any formal sale between IPI and EMR, but can ask about that.

By any means, I can quite agree with you, I also do not expect for this saga to be over in June, or even this year. BUT the investors of Zafaraana are lucky in that their resort is almost completed and I do believe it will be completed. And EMR appear ready to rectify contracts and complete handovers. And thus I am encouraging owners to contact EMR to sort out their situation and claim their rights to their property. A case between EMR and IPI could go on years even, but if an investor can get themselves a legitimate contract and take handover then they can go on and enjoy their property without worrying about what's going on between the two companies.


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## leeroberts

Hi Sam
I hear what you are saying - but just getting the deeds to an apartment in a non-functioning resort is as worthless as getting no deeds at all - who could you sell to, how would you enjoy the resort with just security gaurds in the complex!

Even if (and thats a big IF) EMR did play fair with investors and only ask them for 5% of the apartment fees to finish their apartment - you have to rely on them to get an operator to manage the resort and be at EMR's mercy come resort fees etc.

Lee


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## angelra

I have just...today...paid my £100 to the steering committee who are getting legal advice for us...the investors. I don't like paying any more money,but having read the previous forum,I am even more depressed, and feel we all have to join up and fight for our rights.
I suggest any investor reading this joins up and contacts Poli Avramidis and contributes to the fund. It can only help.....


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## angelra

Sam said:


> I was not aware of any formal sale between IPI and EMR, but can ask about that.
> 
> By any means, I can quite agree with you, I also do not expect for this saga to be over in June, or even this year. BUT the investors of Zafaraana are lucky in that their resort is almost completed and I do believe it will be completed. And EMR appear ready to rectify contracts and complete handovers. And thus I am encouraging owners to contact EMR to sort out their situation and claim their rights to their property. A case between EMR and IPI could go on years even, but if an investor can get themselves a legitimate contract and take handover then they can go on and enjoy their property without worrying about what's going on between the two companies.


Hi Sam
You seem to talk sense. I am an hotel owner,and have been told that as a result I am in a different context from the rest. Apparently EMR cannot sell the apartments belonging to hotel owners. The others have been offered deals with EMR but nothing for us. What do you recommend? Is there any hope for us or do we just lose our money?


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## leeroberts

*EMR Crooks*

From what I see in the forumns and the documents sent out.

EMR have asked everybody (no mater what type of apartment you bought) for an extra 21k euro to finish your apartment......if you have a penthouse you come out best with this deal.....

But, I urge you to be VERY careful when dealing with EMR - as the questions posed by the Dutch steering group are very particular to us.....if you agree to give 21k and let EMR finish your apt. - you must ask yourself these questions:

1) In what timeline - 5 years to get here (knowing what they were going to do all along until the monies dried up in the escow accounts - or access restricted)

2) Who will manage the resort - EMR and another operator?

3) What fees will you be annually charged

4) What use of the apt will you be given?

5) No restaurant or well center to be finished for at least two years - not an attractive reason to visit the resort if you are a tourist

6) You have to pay for the furniture package (again - 6k euro) on top of 21k

I ask you can you trust EMR, after what they have done to IPI\investors. people need to be very weary when thinking about taking this option as it will create two contracts - which is illegal in itself. 
As has been mentioned the IPI contract has been accepted as evidence by the Egyptian court and nothing EMR can do about that - So IPI had a legal stance to sell the apt's to us (given to them by EMR)....

People should wait until the court case has been digested to see what is the best way forward!


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## GMB1980

Sam said:


> For anybody who has either bought in this project or thinking to buy in this project, please be aware that a Dutch company known as IPI has been ILLEGALLY selling this project. The legitimate Egyptian developers have already established a court case against them.
> 
> For anybody who may be affected by this you may contact me for further information.
> 
> For anybody buying any property in Egypt please be aware of non-Egyptian representatives, especially agents marketing the project, signing the contract. They almost never have the authority to do so and a lot of people have lost money this way.


Hi Sam,

It was interesting to read your posts on this site.

I purchased a 2 bed apt at Zafarana in 2007 paying the full fee upfront. As you know, things have gone from bad to worse, with the now impending court case.

You mention contacting EMR to have the contract switched, in order that I have legal ownership. EMR will not approve this.

It seems that IPI have made a huge error of judgement from the outset and all investors that assumed due diligence had been done and that the bank guarantee was worth something are now in a very difficult situation.

IPI got into this mess and the real issue is that all the investors are now out of pocket with it looking like they will never receive an apt they believed they had paid for.

In your opinion, can you see any positive news in the future for the investors or do you believe that this battle has already been lost? Do Egyptian court cases relating to real estate and he Zafarana situation typically go on for years?

I've accepted that the funds I paid will never come back...and I'll learn from this, but do you foresee any positive news for the investors?

Many thanks,

John


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## Sam

angelra said:


> Hi Sam
> You seem to talk sense. I am an hotel owner,and have been told that as a result I am in a different context from the rest. Apparently EMR cannot sell the apartments belonging to hotel owners. The others have been offered deals with EMR but nothing for us. What do you recommend? Is there any hope for us or do we just lose our money?


Never lose hope.

We would recommend hiring a Dutch law firm to sue IPI whilst simultaneously initiating the necessary cases in Egypt. You are the victim here and with documents to support you, don't lose hope.


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## Sam

GMB1980 said:


> Hi Sam,
> 
> It was interesting to read your posts on this site.
> 
> I purchased a 2 bed apt at Zafarana in 2007 paying the full fee upfront. As you know, things have gone from bad to worse, with the now impending court case.
> 
> You mention contacting EMR to have the contract switched, in order that I have legal ownership. EMR will not approve this.
> 
> It seems that IPI have made a huge error of judgement from the outset and all investors that assumed due diligence had been done and that the bank guarantee was worth something are now in a very difficult situation.
> 
> IPI got into this mess and the real issue is that all the investors are now out of pocket with it looking like they will never receive an apt they believed they had paid for.
> 
> In your opinion, can you see any positive news in the future for the investors or do you believe that this battle has already been lost? Do Egyptian court cases relating to real estate and he Zafarana situation typically go on for years?
> 
> I've accepted that the funds I paid will never come back...and I'll learn from this, but do you foresee any positive news for the investors?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> John


Hi John,

Sorry to hear you're caught up in all this too 

One thing I know is that Egypt relies quite heavily on foreign investment and post revolution there is a push to both promote this and protect this. In this respect I am hopeful that the troubled resorts will have satisfactory conclusions, in favour of the investor.

Court cases in Egypt typically take a long time. A civil case such as this would take years, whilst criminal cases are usually processed much faster. The speed your case is processed would therefore depend on the nature of the case, and of course the strength of the petition and supporting evidence.

As I mentioned in a previous post, in this very case it would be recommended to sue both in Egypt and in Holland.

What compensation the investors receive and when would all be dependent on the judge, but according to my knowledge the investors do have a strong case.

Sam


----------



## marenostrum

GMB1980 said:


> Hi Sam,
> 
> It was interesting to read your posts on this site.
> 
> I purchased a 2 bed apt at Zafarana in 2007 paying the full fee upfront. As you know, things have gone from bad to worse, with the now impending court case.
> 
> You mention contacting EMR to have the contract switched, in order that I have legal ownership. EMR will not approve this.
> 
> It seems that IPI have made a huge error of judgement from the outset and all investors that assumed due diligence had been done and that the bank guarantee was worth something are now in a very difficult situation.
> 
> IPI got into this mess and the real issue is that all the investors are now out of pocket with it looking like they will never receive an apt they believed they had paid for.
> 
> In your opinion, can you see any positive news in the future for the investors or do you believe that this battle has already been lost? Do Egyptian court cases relating to real estate and he Zafarana situation typically go on for years?
> 
> I've accepted that the funds I paid will never come back...and I'll learn from this, but do you foresee any positive news for the investors?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> John


I don't know who you are but I'm really sorry for what is happening to you. I know what it is like to have the rug pulled from under your feet like that.

I hope it works out for you and best of luck.

It would be nice if foreign Governments represented their citizens in disputes such as this but they are too busy looking after "others" than pursuing justice for their own.


----------



## leeroberts

*Hold off on IPI*

i would hold off on IPI as they have their monies well and truly hidden and will dissolve anyway. Your best bet is to let IPI fight your case against EMR - who ever wins - be 40 faced and see what they can do for you - if nothing then it's time to take court action as more details will have been released by then.

PS Check out IPI's latest newletter



Sam said:


> Never lose hope.
> 
> We would recommend hiring a Dutch law firm to sue IPI whilst simultaneously initiating the necessary cases in Egypt. You are the victim here and with documents to support you, don't lose hope.


----------



## DSmith

Hi Sam

I am another one caught up in this. You mention civil and criminal cases. Any idea why IPI have chosen criminal action against EMR and not civil action? How could this help us get our apartment? IPI refuse to give details of the criminal action only that that is what they are doing.

Regards
Dave



#


Sam said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Sorry to hear you're caught up in all this too
> 
> One thing I know is that Egypt relies quite heavily on foreign investment and post revolution there is a push to both promote this and protect this. In this respect I am hopeful that the troubled resorts will have satisfactory conclusions, in favour of the investor.
> 
> Court cases in Egypt typically take a long time. A civil case such as this would take years, whilst criminal cases are usually processed much faster. The speed your case is processed would therefore depend on the nature of the case, and of course the strength of the petition and supporting evidence.
> 
> As I mentioned in a previous post, in this very case it would be recommended to sue both in Egypt and in Holland.
> 
> What compensation the investors receive and when would all be dependent on the judge, but according to my knowledge the investors do have a strong case.
> 
> Sam


----------



## leeroberts

Yeah
Good question - I don't trust either - the shifty Egyptian or the bungling Dutchman...to be honest, from what I glem from the SC - the Egyptian looks to have the upper hand legally - though the details cannot be disclosed (but you must put your trust in the SC)....so with that predicate, IPI are stalling for time - but for what reason....

I feel like most I will buy my apartment (again), this time, from EMR - for £7k (sterling) extra to have it finished....

As far as I know EMR owe the TDA 1.4millon to convert the apartments into tourist apartmrnts - this i swhy they are asking the investors to stump up the extra monies....then later they will draw up another contract, detailing how they propose to run the resort in the long run...

Emmmmm, but I still can't get my head around to accepting that I have to deal with the shifty Egyptian....it just doesn't seem right that, in that EMR waited till no monies where left in the account and then took court actions...PLANNED!!!

Lee 



DSmith said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> I am another one caught up in this. You mention civil and criminal cases. Any idea why IPI have chosen criminal action against EMR and not civil action? How could this help us get our apartment? IPI refuse to give details of the criminal action only that that is what they are doing.
> 
> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> #


----------



## Ashee

*new*



angelra said:


> Hi Sam
> You seem to talk sense. I am an hotel owner,and have been told that as a result I am in a different context from the rest. Apparently EMR cannot sell the apartments belonging to hotel owners. The others have been offered deals with EMR but nothing for us. What do you recommend? Is there any hope for us or do we just lose our money?


Hi, just came across this forum tonight. Please advise on what our position is with our apartment, you say EMR can't sell Hotel apartments and as you rightly stated we have been offered nothing .so where does this leave us /

thanking you in anticipation.


----------



## DSmith

Lee

May have been a typo on yours but the amount EMR want is £17-18k - depends on xchange rate at time. Not a clue what IPI are up to. Hope SC knows.

Dave





leeroberts said:


> Yeah
> Good question - I don't trust either - the shifty Egyptian or the bungling Dutchman...to be honest, from what I glem from the SC - the Egyptian looks to have the upper hand legally - though the details cannot be disclosed (but you must put your trust in the SC)....so with that predicate, IPI are stalling for time - but for what reason....
> 
> I feel like most I will buy my apartment (again), this time, from EMR - for £7k (sterling) extra to have it finished....
> 
> As far as I know EMR owe the TDA 1.4millon to convert the apartments into tourist apartmrnts - this i swhy they are asking the investors to stump up the extra monies....then later they will draw up another contract, detailing how they propose to run the resort in the long run...
> 
> Emmmmm, but I still can't get my head around to accepting that I have to deal with the shifty Egyptian....it just doesn't seem right that, in that EMR waited till no monies where left in the account and then took court actions...PLANNED!!!
> 
> Lee


----------



## leeroberts

Hi DSmith

No typo - I would and wouldn't expect anybody to pay 17k sterling for an apartment that might need 5k max (inc. furniture - again) to have it finished.....

The SC are going to make a counter offer - they would be very very foolish to accept the shifty Egyptian's first offer of 17k, nobody in their right mind would pay that and hope that it is finished for a second time, please do not pay that!

Lee

PS it's not totally in the Egyptians favor to get rid of us - who is going to pay the 1.4 millon to the TDA - he needs as many of us (investors) as possible - that's why he came up with the extra 17k (@100 investors taking him on)....

If he just goes ahead and resells that apartments (which i don't think he can with a court case pending on them - for the next 2 years) - he will use that monies to convert apt's to tourist apts - but he will not have made as big a profit as he would of expected....



DSmith said:


> Lee
> 
> May have been a typo on yours but the amount EMR want is £17-18k - depends on xchange rate at time. Not a clue what IPI are up to. Hope SC knows.
> 
> Dave


----------



## Eco-Mariner

The culture of raising construction capital from foreign investors through marketing agents, then creating faults to get rid of them was nothing short of criminal. But it's been the centre of trade since the mid-nineties and we agents fell for the hype.

There are laws which protect both construction partners and customers, but these become long term court proceedures and as these "shifty" Egyptians knew of the slow course of actions allowed bad practices to continue unchecked.

However, times are changing. Prosecutions and reforms are in the air. What companies like IPI should be doing is pressing for consumer rights and protection, rather than walking away from litigation.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## Pete100

Sam said:


> For anybody who has either bought in this project or thinking to buy in this project, please be aware that a Dutch company known as IPI has been ILLEGALLY selling this project. The legitimate Egyptian developers have already established a court case against them.
> 
> For anybody who may be affected by this you may contact me for further information.
> 
> For anybody buying any property in Egypt please be aware of non-Egyptian representatives, especially agents marketing the project, signing the contract. They almost never have the authority to do so and a lot of people have lost money this way.


Hi Sam

Am interested in what you're saying about IPI not having the authority to sell the units. Our Purchase Agreement (and I assume it's the same as everyone elses) says 
'This Agreement for purchase of Apartment is entered into on 24 May 2007 by: IPI International Property Investors B.V. of (address), a limited liability company incorporated and organised under the laws of the Netherlands in a joint venture with El Mohanad Realestate, of (address), a limited liability company registration number 29572 in the Suez Commercial Register (herein referred to as the "Developer").
Sorry if thats old news, but as I see it, IPI aren't claiming ownership of the resort, merely being part of a 'joint venture' with EMR, and as such, would have an agreement with EMR to market and take payments. 
That does raise the question though of who to sue, IPI alone? EMR alone, or both?
What a mess. I expect this is going to take years before there is any resolution.


----------



## denisj77

*Info*



Sam said:


> For anybody who has either bought in this project or thinking to buy in this project, please be aware that a Dutch company known as IPI has been ILLEGALLY selling this project. The legitimate Egyptian developers have already established a court case against them.
> 
> For anybody who may be affected by this you may contact me for further information.
> 
> For anybody buying any property in Egypt please be aware of non-Egyptian representatives, especially agents marketing the project, signing the contract. They almost never have the authority to do so and a lot of people have lost money this way.


Hy Sam,
I'm a Italian Investor in Marsa Alam Beach Resort Phase 2 ( IPI Group )
Have you got Info? Can You help me? Here in Italy , the principal seller of IPI Project (IPS) , addressed all of us investors in mabr to start a law suit with a Lower Company in Amsterdam (Boekel de Nerèe).
My-Email: [
Thanks


----------



## realinvestor

*Marsa Alam Beach Resort*



denisj77 said:


> Hy Sam,
> I'm a Italian Investor in Marsa Alam Beach Resort Phase 2 ( IPI Group )
> Have you got Info? Can You help me? Here in Italy , the principal seller of IPI Project (IPS) , addressed all of us investors in mabr to start a law suit with a Lower Company in Amsterdam (Boekel de Nerèe).
> My-Email: [
> Thanks



Hi Denis

I am a Uk investor in both Zafarana and MABR. I understand that a group of Uk investors are also seeking legal help against IPI as MABR is now in deep deep trouoble. Can you privide more details of the Italian agent and also perahsp send me your emailif possible so we can discuss things?

Thanks


----------



## 007agents

Hi,
We have a hotel apartment, and bought in 2007.
Reading our contract over and over again, it mentions EMR partners in the building side but does not mention they own all the land.
We would not have bought on this basis!
Escrow account a complete waste of time, IPI had misled us big time.

We are left with nothing, just waiting for at least a message from EMR, that we have sold your apartment which you thought was your's and probably laughing at us.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

The real crooked part of most Egyptian sales is the lack of real information your lawyers can obtain on these developers. Especially on their land-owning partners.

Most of these revelations only come to light when the marketing partners have a dispute and the current licenses are re-checked to validate their part in the client contracts. In EMR's case is was blatently obvious this would be exposed and the double-sold many units in the process.

Was it deliberate? Of course. IPI were misled from day one and exited when they found the flaws. The ones who lost out are owners.

Would you advise others to buy? Maybe.... But make sure they know the pitfalls and the Delights of Egyptian Promises.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## leeroberts

OMG
I couldn't believe it when i read above about the Mabr going under too....I remember when zafarana was dumping, mabr people starting to distance themselves....acorn and tree come to mind....we all got shated by IPI - didn't mater who the developer was....I was told by EMR themselves that my apt block hasbeen sold Adela B


----------



## bartas

We are Polish investors in Marsa Alam (junior suit) and are very 
concerned about the development of construction of the resort. We don't trust IPI any more and would like to receive our money back. Could you give us some advice what we should do on the basis of your experience?


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Dear Bartas.

If you make 4-5 more posts you can receive private messages which may assist you personally.

Eco-Mariner


----------



## leeroberts

bartas said:


> We are Polish investors in Marsa Alam (junior suit) and are very
> concerned about the development of construction of the resort. We don't trust IPI any more and would like to receive our money back. Could you give us some advice what we should do on the basis of your experience?


Hi 
Please sit tight, EMR are not selling anybodies apartments - they want to see what the courts do first - and that will take 12-24 months to finalise before they can be 100% sure of reselling the apartments.
But, there are always ways to thwart EMR and time is on your side in this case. I will be in contact in two months time, to let you know how I get on.

Lee


----------



## hennazaf

*zafarana beach resort*

Hi leeroberts
How do you know for sure that EMR are not selling the apartments? Have you been to the resort yourself to see adela block B - where you say yours is - really has been sold (or any other apartment for that matter)?
Thanks


----------



## leeroberts

hennazaf said:


> Hi leeroberts
> How do you know for sure that EMR are not selling the apartments? Have you been to the resort yourself to see adela block B - where you say yours is - really has been sold (or any other apartment for that matter)?
> Thanks


Hi
I have been in contact with one of the buyers and what has happened is EMR putting a spin on things. These people have repurchased their apartment as they want to enjoy it....but EMR puts it out that they have resold the apartment - not saying that they have resold it to the original owners!!!!

One thing that EMR stress is that they want back the (useless) IPI contract so as to negotiate a new contract - WHY? Since the IPI one is (in their words) worthless.

I have other information as to how EMR are not selling also, but not for a public forum.... please do not waste more money and repurchase your already (over) paid apartment.....it will take a few years but hold tight.

Lee


----------



## hennazaf

leeroberts said:


> Hi
> I have been in contact with one of the buyers and what has happened is EMR putting a spin on things. These people have repurchased their apartment as they want to enjoy it....but EMR puts it out that they have resold the apartment - not saying that they have resold it to the original owners!!!!
> 
> One thing that EMR stress is that they want back the (useless) IPI contract so as to negotiate a new contract - WHY? Since the IPI one is (in their words) worthless.
> 
> I have other information as to how EMR are not selling also, but not for a public forum.... please do not waste more money and repurchase your already (over) paid apartment.....it will take a few years but hold tight.
> 
> Lee


Hi Leeroberts
Thanks for the info. I'd be very interested in hearing more if you could PM me please


----------



## leeroberts

*EMR up to their old tricks*

It has come to my attention, that EMR have put a spin on finding out that secret investor was at Zafarana trying to purchase an apartment.....

There replay to this was "we did not like the look of the investor, and so did not try to sell to him...we want to have zafarana as a respectful resort..."

WTF, you are OK with ripping 400 (respectful) investors off, but are getting fussy about who you want to invest a second time.....a load of bu!!

EMR was embarrassed by this secret investor (finding out some truths about EMR not fully selling the European apartments) that they put a spin only the Conservative party would be proud of on it....

The facts are that they are no reselling (yet) and the apartments that they have said to have resold - yes - they are telling the truth they have resold some of the apartments to the owners again!!!

People, do not repurchase your already bought apartments for the time being, it is only playing into EMR's hands - giving them the much needed cash - as they too are a company with cash flows and purchasing your apartment again will only be disingenuous to your fellow investors.

Lee


----------



## Eco-Mariner

My company and colleagues are suing El Riad in Hurghada. They too doubled (and treble) sold owners apartments saying the master agent did not work totally to their contractual agreements.... However, we proved El Riad partners took and received client monies therefore the initial sale contracts are valid, or else they refund all the monies.

Zafarana is another example of Egyptian malpractice and if owners have validated sales in the first instance, they should be the legal ones that should have the option to complete. If EMR state otherwise, they should prove they did not have the fees. If you owners can prove they have, they must return it before reselling your units.

Eco-Mariner.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Eco-Mariner said:


> My company and colleagues are suing El Riad in Hurghada. They too doubled (and treble) sold owners apartments saying the master agent did not work totally to their contractual agreements.... However, we proved El Riad partners took and received client monies therefore the initial sale contracts are valid, or else they refund all the monies.
> 
> Zafarana is another example of Egyptian malpractice and if owners have validated sales in the first instance, they should be the legal ones that should have the option to complete. If EMR state otherwise, they should prove they did not have the fees. If you owners can prove they have, they must return it before reselling your units.
> 
> Eco-Mariner.




Good luck on this


----------



## PaulAshton

When buying off plan anywhere not just Egypt (the land of scams) it's a case of buyer beware I see many "shells" where there are spurts of work

I think it's always best to buy somewhere established rather than buying a dream as it could turn into your holiday home from hell as the developer runs out of money.

The phrases "work in progress" "soft roll out" "up and coming" make me shudder and alarm bells go off.

I nearly go suckered into some property in Hurghada last year, it's still soft roll out and work in progress with a lovely auto cad / photo shopped .jpeg

Even when you buy something established be sure to inspect the roof, communal areas etc a few times to see if they are maintained and not just cleaned prior to inspection - and also location to the mosque unless you are one of those who like to hear 1,825 vocalisations per year

If it's too good to be true it normally is :eyebrows:


----------



## SJH11

realinvestor said:


> Hi Denis
> 
> I am a Uk investor in both Zafarana and MABR. I understand that a group of Uk investors are also seeking legal help against IPI as MABR is now in deep deep trouoble. Can you privide more details of the Italian agent and also perahsp send me your emailif possible so we can discuss things?
> 
> Thanks


Hi, I am an investor in MABR and I am desperately seeking contact with other MABR investors in view of the currentl situation. Can we all discuss this please.


----------



## SJH11

SJH11 said:


> Hi, I am an investor in MABR and I am desperately seeking contact with other MABR investors in view of the currentl situation. Can we all discuss this please.


I can be contacted on the following email ********************


----------



## SJH11

This is what is bothering me, from the latest IPI newsletter received this week re Marsa Alam Beach Resort, No doubt Zafarana investors will be interested in this too and I understand you don't receive info any more from IPI. Incidentally emails to IPI in Holland are already bouncing back, seems like they have all gone: 
*Due to the recession and the situation in Egypt, the finances of the IPI group of
companies have been very tight for quite some time now. This has had a direct
consequence in that the Head Office staff can no longer be paid. That is why the decision
was taken to cease the work in Europe until further notice. For the European IPI staff
this is obviously very unpleasant news.
A bankruptcy of the legal person, IPI Group BV, for which everyone is active is inevitable.
The relevant legal person is in fact a company in which costs are hosted. This has no
direct effect on the organization as a whole, as the name would suggest.
As a consequence is it not inconceivable*


----------



## SJH11

woops, second bit got cut off 
*As a consequence is it not inconceivable that the remaining activities, will be done from
Egypt in the near future.
As usual, we will keep you up to date when new facts are known.*


----------



## SJH11

leeroberts said:


> OMG
> I couldn't believe it when i read above about the Mabr going under too....I remember when zafarana was dumping, mabr people starting to distance themselves....acorn and tree come to mind....we all got shated by IPI - didn't mater who the developer was....I was told by EMR themselves that my apt block hasbeen sold Adela B


Hi Lee, 
As a MABR investor, when I read that Zafarana was in trouble afew years back, I tried to contact a few owners as I felt we had a common problem and needed to talk. All I got was some extremely rude replies telling me where to go. This included: "Go gloat somewhere else." I really couldn't understand the reaction.


----------



## leeroberts

SJH11 said:


> Hi Lee,
> As a MABR investor, when I read that Zafarana was in trouble afew years back, I tried to contact a few owners as I felt we had a common problem and needed to talk. All I got was some extremely rude replies telling me where to go. This included: "Go gloat somewhere else." I really couldn't understand the reaction.


Hi SJH11 
Yeah I remember those days well, ah they where a simpler slagging people off time...
Ah anyway, I see IPI have finally got your place sorted and sold to an Saudi company - which can only be good news for MA investors.....so, go ahead - have a gloat at us Zafarana investors - one more time 

Lee


----------



## leeroberts

Hi SJH11 
If you are interested - I took a screenshot of that site "Eyes on the world" that we all used back then, I had the last comment on it....before they took it down.


----------



## CatMandoo

leeroberts said:


> Hi SJH11
> If you are interested - I took a screenshot of that site "Eyes on the world" that we all used back then, I had the last comment on it....before they took it down.


Do you need to find information from an old website that no longer exists?


----------



## Cliff123

leeroberts said:


> Hi SJH11
> Yeah I remember those days well, ah they where a simpler slagging people off time...
> Ah anyway, I see IPI have finally got your place sorted and sold to an Saudi company - which can only be good news for MA investors.....so, go ahead - have a gloat at us Zafarana investors - one more time
> 
> Lee


Hi
Can you tell me where you found the information that Marsa Alam Beach Resort has been sold to a Soudi company.I'm a investor in MABR and have not heard anything.
Cliff


----------



## zekim

Cliff123 said:


> Hi
> Can you tell me where you found the information that Marsa Alam Beach Resort has been sold to a Soudi company.I'm a investor in MABR and have not heard anything.
> Cliff


Hi Cliff123

I too am an investor in MABR and likewise have not heard any news of any Saudi investment in the development. I hope this information has some substance. As time passes I am getting increasingly concerned as to what the future holds for my investment. The following extract has started alarm bells ringing even louder. 

Bankrupt: The IPI Group BV, Egmond aan den Hoef
business february 1, 2012. Last update: February 1, 2012-58 views 1 February 2012 IPI Group BV, Egmond aan den Hoef (Chamber of Commerce: 50452487) is January 31, 2012 the court declared bankrupt. February 1, 2012 Related News> Bankrupt: Source Of Excellence Consultancy BV in Utrecht> Bankrupt: Worx4you BV


----------



## lockewarren

I invested in zaf and made a trip to the resort about 2 years ago. I came away with a bad feeling then. Like alot of other developments in the same area all had been started but nothing finished. I have since moved to the middle east and have realised that you never buy property here!!..the law lies with the locals and all rules fall in favour towards them!.. I shall never part with money again in the arab world in property. I wish MABR owners the best of luck if a saudi company has saved them. I hope for their sake they have not lost everything like we have. I trusted IPI as an investor but I guess they have lost aswell and the only ones to benefit are the egyptians with the law on their side, but to honest, the state of Egypt now, I am not sure i would want to holiday there anyway!!!!


----------



## siamoricat

SJH11 said:


> Hi, I am an investor in MABR and I am desperately seeking contact with other MABR investors in view of the currentl situation. Can we all discuss this please.



Hi, I am also an investor in MABR. I am really concerned after reading this thread and the last newsletter from IPI. As our money is in escrow can we get what is left in there back?


----------



## Cliff123

Hi 
There is a group on facebook just typ MABR into facebook search.

Cliff


----------



## Cliff123

siamoricat said:


> I can't find it. I can only see an Italian one.


Hi again
Try searching facebook for (Pure WOW wellbeing resort) it should have worked with MABR but I'm sure you shold be able to find us.
Cliff


----------



## MaidenScotland

Dont push it folks.. I let the link stay but dont turn this into facebook links


----------



## SJH11

Re the MABR / Pure Well Being Resort: I have today received an email from IPI (in response to my email about bankruptcy fears). I'll post it here in the interests of keeping confidence in the project as high as it can be, which, as investors, is obviously in all our best interests. 
It states: 
IPI Group BV (not to be confused with IPI group of companies) is bankrupt. This legal entity could be seen as an employment agency for the other legal entities of the group of companies. Due to the bankruptcy there is hardly any European staff left.

In the mean time IPI is reorganizing. As a result future communication will come directly from El Sery. I would like to point out that the changes in Europe will not affect the project, or the funds which are in Escrow. These are different legal entities. El Sery remains the party which should deliver. (Here is added the email address for El Sery which I had better not put on this forum).

Work is being done at the 2 bedroom apartment buildings. The most important procedures (obtaining the final documents in regard to the remaining buildings and finalizing the arrangement with the outside investor) are still running. All details of the Joint Venture documentation are finalized and it is ready to sign. The joint venture leads to all the necessary funding for finalizing the resort and will be made available by the outside investor.

We are now awaiting the conclusion of the construction agreement with a major international construction company, obtaining the necessary visas for foreign workers and the import permit for the building material.

We expect to inform all parties about the outcome in the very near future. We anticipate that this will be weeks instead of months.


----------



## zekim

SJH11 said:


> Re the MABR / Pure Well Being Resort: I have today received an email from IPI (in response to my email about bankruptcy fears). I'll post it here in the interests of keeping confidence in the project as high as it can be, which, as investors, is obviously in all our best interests.
> It states:
> IPI Group BV (not to be confused with IPI group of companies) is bankrupt. This legal entity could be seen as an employment agency for the other legal entities of the group of companies. Due to the bankruptcy there is hardly any European staff left.
> 
> In the mean time IPI is reorganizing. As a result future communication will come directly from El Sery. I would like to point out that the changes in Europe will not affect the project, or the funds which are in Escrow. These are different legal entities. El Sery remains the party which should deliver. (Here is added the email address for El Sery which I had better not put on this forum).
> 
> Work is being done at the 2 bedroom apartment buildings. The most important procedures (obtaining the final documents in regard to the remaining buildings and finalizing the arrangement with the outside investor) are still running. All details of the Joint Venture documentation are finalized and it is ready to sign. The joint venture leads to all the necessary funding for finalizing the resort and will be made available by the outside investor.
> 
> We are now awaiting the conclusion of the construction agreement with a major international construction company, obtaining the necessary visas for foreign workers and the import permit for the building material.
> 
> We expect to inform all parties about the outcome in the very near future. We anticipate that this will be weeks instead of months.


Many thanks SJH for sharing your update I agree that maintaining confidence in MABR should remain high as I for one certainly do not want to jeopardize my investment however difficult this is for me. Its been nearly 5 years since I made the investment. 

You have beaten me to it as I have also emailed El Sery for a progress update as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here. Hopefully the new investors will sign soon and get the build underway (fingers, toes crossed!)


----------



## SJH11

zekim said:


> Many thanks SJH for sharing your update I agree that maintaining confidence in MABR should remain high as I for one certainly do not want to jeopardize my investment however difficult this is for me. Its been nearly 5 years since I made the investment.
> 
> You have beaten me to it as I have also emailed El Sery for a progress update as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here. Hopefully the new investors will sign soon and get the build underway (fingers, toes crossed!)


Indeed Zekim, let's hope one day we will all be meeting up over there!


----------



## Cliff123

SJH11 said:


> Re the MABR / Pure Well Being Resort: I have today received an email from IPI (in response to my email about bankruptcy fears). I'll post it here in the interests of keeping confidence in the project as high as it can be, which, as investors, is obviously in all our best interests.
> It states:
> IPI Group BV (not to be confused with IPI group of companies) is bankrupt. This legal entity could be seen as an employment agency for the other legal entities of the group of companies. Due to the bankruptcy there is hardly any European staff left.
> 
> In the mean time IPI is reorganizing. As a result future communication will come directly from El Sery. I would like to point out that the changes in Europe will not affect the project, or the funds which are in Escrow. These are different legal entities. El Sery remains the party which should deliver. (Here is added the email address for El Sery which I had better not put on this forum).
> 
> Work is being done at the 2 bedroom apartment buildings. The most important procedures (obtaining the final documents in regard to the remaining buildings and finalizing the arrangement with the outside investor) are still running. All details of the Joint Venture documentation are finalized and it is ready to sign. The joint venture leads to all the necessary funding for finalizing the resort and will be made available by the outside investor.
> 
> We are now awaiting the conclusion of the construction agreement with a major international construction company, obtaining the necessary visas for foreign workers and the import permit for the building material.
> 
> We expect to inform all parties about the outcome in the very near future. We anticipate that this will be weeks instead of months.


Hi sjh11
Thank's for the update let's hope that this joint venture goes ahead with the upmost speed.
Cliff


----------



## Cliff123

To Moderator MaidenScotland

To the moderator I was not intending to break any forum rules, I was just trying to make contact with other mabr investors without putting personal information on an open forum


----------



## zekim

Cliff123 said:


> To Moderator MaidenScotland
> 
> To the moderator I was not intending to break any forum rules, I was just trying to make contact with other mabr investors without putting personal information on an open forum


I second that, I simply wanted to link in with other MABR investors. Without a Private Messaging facility it is difficult to communicate, without divulging email addresses and phone numbers on a public forum.


----------



## SJH11

zekim said:


> I second that, I simply wanted to link in with other MABR investors. Without a Private Messaging facility it is difficult to communicate, without divulging email addresses and phone numbers on a public forum.


Zekim, I have private messaging here but cannot PM you as you don't. If you post a few more things, you should get it soon and we can PM eachother.


----------



## SJH11

Cliff123 said:


> To Moderator MaidenScotland
> 
> To the moderator I was not intending to break any forum rules, I was just trying to make contact with other mabr investors without putting personal information on an open forum


Cliff, I think you are one post short of getting Private Messaging. If you post something else, you should get it soon and we can PM eachother.


----------



## MaidenScotland

I am sure you are not intending to break rules but the fact is links etc to other forums are not allowed although as mods we are allowed discretion and that is why I allowed it however there is no way I want this page to be full of facebook links.. after all the forum is here to help people not to divert them elsewhere,


----------



## Cliff123

Hi again
Thank you for that information, perhaps this mesage will be enough posts.
Cliff


----------



## SJH11

Cliff123 said:


> Hi again
> Thank you for that information, perhaps this mesage will be enough posts.
> Cliff


hmmm it's not working yet. But I'm sure it will soon. I'll check back in a while.


----------



## Cliff123

zekim said:


> I second that, I simply wanted to link in with other MABR investors. Without a Private Messaging facility it is difficult to communicate, without divulging email addresses and phone numbers on a public forum.


Hi Zekim
If you make 3 more posts I will be able to pm you with my email, I have already contacted SJH11


----------



## MaidenScotland

It would be nice to see a contribution post on the forum other than asking people to pm each other,

Maiden


----------



## MaidenScotland

Surely there is information you can share on here but not facebook links to another group.

The purpose of the thread is to get information out to people who have invested.


----------



## SJH11

zekim said:


> Many thanks SJH for sharing your update I agree that maintaining confidence in MABR should remain high as I for one certainly do not want to jeopardize my investment however difficult this is for me. Its been nearly 5 years since I made the investment.
> 
> You have beaten me to it as I have also emailed El Sery for a progress update as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here. Hopefully the new investors will sign soon and get the build underway (fingers, toes crossed!)


Zekim, which block have you invested in?


----------



## Cliff123

MaidenScotland said:


> Surely there is information you can share on here but not facebook links to another group.
> 
> The purpose of the thread is to get information out to people who have invested.


Unfortunately there has been little or no work done on either Zafarana since July 2009 or Marsa Alam Beach resort since January 2010 and no news from the developer since early January this year. There are a lot of very worried investors out there that have invested their life savings in these projects and this is probably the reason that people are trying to contact other investors to get help and support without giving private information on an open site that the developers can see.


----------



## zekim

SJH11 said:


> Zekim, which block have you invested in?


Hi SJH11

We have invested in C Block


----------



## SJH11

zekim said:


> Hi SJH11
> 
> We have invested in C Block


What did El Sery have to say when you wrote to them?


----------



## zekim

Cliff123 said:


> Unfortunately there has been little or no work done on either Zafarana since July 2009 or Marsa Alam Beach resort since January 2010 and no news from the developer since early January this year. There are a lot of very worried investors out there that have invested their life savings in these projects and this is probably the reason that people are trying to contact other investors to get help and support without giving private information on an open site that the developers can see.


I have to admit they have done a good job on the coastguard station, what are the Egyptian squatters rights! 

In my earlier post I mentioned that I had phoned and emailed EL Sery asking for them to contact me. So far this has been met with silence, I await with baited breath!

Zekim


----------



## zekim

SJH11 said:


> What did El Sery have to say when you wrote to them?


Another thought comes to mind regarding the penalty payments. If and when are they going to be re-introduced.

The only crumb of comfort I can offer is from this piece of text

"According to Tarek Shalabi, Vice Chairman of Marsa Alam Investment & Tourism Association (MAITA), the FJP's program astounded all attendees. Shalabi asserted that the FJP’s message was very clear and transparent, and genuinely prioritized tourism investment, placing right at the top of its agenda, for the near future, by promoting all types of tourism in Egypt without exception."


----------



## SJH11

I wrote to the IPI email address a couple of weeks ago and got a reply within a day. However, they did ask me to write to aftersales at elsery.com if I had any other emails to send. And I notice that the email I received from IPI actually came from that elsery email address.


----------



## SJH11

zekim said:


> Another thought comes to mind regarding the penalty payments. If and when are they going to be re-introduced.
> 
> The only crumb of comfort I can offer is from this piece of text
> 
> "According to Tarek Shalabi, Vice Chairman of Marsa Alam Investment & Tourism Association (MAITA), the FJP's program astounded all attendees. Shalabi asserted that the FJP’s message was very clear and transparent, and genuinely prioritized tourism investment, placing right at the top of its agenda, for the near future, by promoting all types of tourism in Egypt without exception."


I never got any penalty payments - they said I was entitled to them from Feb 10 but that they would pay them when my apartment was completed. Of course Force Majeure stopped all that in Feb 11.


----------



## zekim

SJH11 said:


> I wrote to the IPI email address a couple of weeks ago and got a reply within a day. However, they did ask me to write to aftersales at elsery.com if I had any other emails to send. And I notice that the email I received from IPI actually came from that elsery email address.


I sent a message through the El Sery website contact form, rather than the email link. I would assume that they would still be in receipt of a message? 
I emailed IPI after-sales a several weeks ago, and they did reply pretty quickly. I think I will follow up the message with an email.


----------



## duped

IPI has apparently gone into liquidation. 

Regarding Marsa Alam Beach Resort I received an email from Global Investment Concepts, a legal entity, asking if I'm interested in seeing all official paperwork with a view to joining in a collective legal action against El Sery, the project's owner. Meanwhile, El Sery has asked investors to be patient and wait a few weeks for more news on a new major investor. Has anyone here had dealings with Global Investment Concepts?


----------



## Eco-Mariner

zekim said:


> Another thought comes to mind regarding the penalty payments. If and when are they going to be re-introduced.
> 
> The only crumb of comfort I can offer is from this piece of text
> 
> "According to Tarek Shalabi, Vice Chairman of Marsa Alam Investment & Tourism Association (MAITA), the FJP's program astounded all attendees. Shalabi asserted that the FJP’s message was very clear and transparent, and genuinely prioritized tourism investment, placing right at the top of its agenda, for the near future, by promoting all types of tourism in Egypt without exception."



This piece of propaganda is no more than a coat of paint.
The country is in complete turmoil and investors are now angry and have had enough of lies.
Let me explain simply, refunds and penalties will never be part of Egypt's reality. They will always make excuses to foreigners as their own families will come first.
IPI are only one of many companies who found they cannot trust Egyptian land-owners as their partners and found that they had to sever contractual agreements, mostly because of Egyptian attitudes in breaching every article in those Practical Partnership contracts made under the old regime.

So IPI went into voluntary liquidation.

The problem was that Egypt took your money and will not consider foreigners as valuable, only when they have none...... Which is now.

So they lie and believe more mugs will follow. That will not happen.
The trust has gone. Action speaks louder than words and it will take more than a few words from Tarek Shalabi to put it all right. 


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## Cliff123

duped said:


> IPI has apparently gone into liquidation.
> 
> Regarding Marsa Alam Beach Resort I received an email from Global Investment Concepts, a legal entity, asking if I'm interested in seeing all official paperwork with a view to joining in a collective legal action against El Sery, the project's owner. Meanwhile, El Sery has asked investors to be patient and wait a few weeks for more news on a new major investor. Has anyone here had dealings with Global Investment Concepts?


Hi Duped 
I take it that you have also bought into MABR. There are many people that I know including myself that have received this email. Non that I know of have replied but all are wondering where they got our email addresses from.


----------



## SJH11

duped said:


> IPI has apparently gone into liquidation.
> 
> Regarding Marsa Alam Beach Resort I received an email from Global Investment Concepts, a legal entity, asking if I'm interested in seeing all official paperwork with a view to joining in a collective legal action against El Sery, the project's owner. Meanwhile, El Sery has asked investors to be patient and wait a few weeks for more news on a new major investor. Has anyone here had dealings with Global Investment Concepts?


I got one these letters and think it all looks very suspicious. I think we are on a suckers list.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

SJH11 said:


> I got one these letters and think it all looks very suspicious. I think we are on a suckers list.


Ambulance chasers.... Companies wanting to make quick bucks from other folk's crisis.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## duped

I've asked them about where did they get my e-mail and whom are the other mysterious entities that they mentioned in their communique and they replied that I should give them my phone number in order to answer all my questions. I am insisting on e-mail communication only for the time being.


----------



## SJH11

duped said:


> I've asked them about where did they get my e-mail and whom are the other mysterious entities that they mentioned in their communique and they replied that I should give them my phone number in order to answer all my questions. I am insisting on e-mail communication only for the time being.


We are having nothing to do with them. They are asking for more money so they can invest it in another Egyptian property that's finished. There's got to be something wrong there. Anyone can do that and there are plenty of people out there doing precisely that. They say they have been in contact with IPI yet IPI say they have never spoken to them a
nd cannot get hold of them.


----------



## duped

Are we talking about the same people? They want €1800 so that they can go to court in Egypt and gain access to our escrow statuses or something like that. The guy's a property lawyer, but I don't trust lawyers touting for business.


----------



## Cliff123

duped said:


> Are we talking about the same people? They want €1800 so that they can go to court in Egypt and gain access to our escrow statuses or something like that. The guy's a property lawyer, but I don't trust lawyers touting for business.


Yes that seems about right, also I believe he is a property agent as well. If you do get an email from them answering your questions please let us know.


----------



## SJH11

duped said:


> Are we talking about the same people? They want €1800 so that they can go to court in Egypt and gain access to our escrow statuses or something like that. The guy's a property lawyer, but I don't trust lawyers touting for business.


Yes, that is what they told someone who emailed them asking what options are available.


----------



## SJH11

SJH11 said:


> Yes, that is what they told someone who emailed them asking what options are available.


And I can't see how someone can go to court in Egypt to get access to our escrow accounts when the escrows are held in a bank in Holland???


----------



## scubadoo1

*Mabr*



Cliff123 said:


> Hi
> There is a group on facebook just typ MABR into facebook search.
> 
> Cliff


HI Cliff123,

I have never used facedbook before today but I created an account and did a search as you said but only found an Italian group. Is that the one you are referring to?

If anyone else out there is an investor in the Marsa Alam Beach Resort like myself I'd love some news and to talk about this as we are deeply concerned about our investment.


----------



## scubadoo1

SJH11 said:


> Re the MABR / Pure Well Being Resort: I have today received an email from IPI (in response to my email about bankruptcy fears). I'll post it here in the interests of keeping confidence in the project as high as it can be, which, as investors, is obviously in all our best interests.
> It states:
> IPI Group BV (not to be confused with IPI group of companies) is bankrupt. This legal entity could be seen as an employment agency for the other legal entities of the group of companies. Due to the bankruptcy there is hardly any European staff left.
> 
> In the mean time IPI is reorganizing. As a result future communication will come directly from El Sery. I would like to point out that the changes in Europe will not affect the project, or the funds which are in Escrow. These are different legal entities. El Sery remains the party which should deliver. (Here is added the email address for El Sery which I had better not put on this forum).
> 
> Work is being done at the 2 bedroom apartment buildings. The most important procedures (obtaining the final documents in regard to the remaining buildings and finalizing the arrangement with the outside investor) are still running. All details of the Joint Venture documentation are finalized and it is ready to sign. The joint venture leads to all the necessary funding for finalizing the resort and will be made available by the outside investor.
> 
> We are now awaiting the conclusion of the construction agreement with a major international construction company, obtaining the necessary visas for foreign workers and the import permit for the building material.
> 
> We expect to inform all parties about the outcome in the very near future. We anticipate that this will be weeks instead of months.



Hi,

I also recieved an email almost identical to this a couple weeks ago when I sent an email to IPI for an update. Recently I sent two separate emails to Elsery but have not had a reply yet. I'm thinking of calling them on the number shown on the website. I'll post a reply if I get anywhere.

In the meantime I'd like to let you know that I was contacted by a Legal firm offering two options 1.a swap of apartment or 2. Joint legal action with other ivestors. Its sounds fishy to me but has anyone else been contacted about something similar?


----------



## SJH11

scubadoo1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I also recieved an email almost identical to this a couple weeks ago when I sent an email to IPI for an update. Recently I sent two separate emails to Elsery but have not had a reply yet. I'm thinking of calling them on the number shown on the website. I'll post a reply if I get anywhere.
> 
> In the meantime I'd like to let you know that I was contacted by a Legal firm offering two options 1.a swap of apartment or 2. Joint legal action with other ivestors. Its sounds fishy to me but has anyone else been contacted about something similar?


Hello, Yes, lots of us have been contacted by this firm. We think they got our emails from an old IPI list as they haven't been able to contact some people who changed their email addresses. Nobody is having anything to do with them. To my knowledge, only one other person has been offered an apartment swap - but it's not a swap, you've got to pay them several thousand more!! Sounds like typical fraudsters.


----------



## SJH11

scubadoo1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Recently I sent two separate emails to Elsery but have not had a reply yet. I'm thinking of calling them on the number shown on the website. I'll post a reply if I get anywhere.


I've never contacted El Sery - let us know how you get on.


----------



## duped

duped said:


> I've asked them about where did they get my e-mail and whom are the other mysterious entities that they mentioned in their communique and they replied that I should give them my phone number in order to answer all my questions. I am insisting on e-mail communication only for the time being.


After refusing to supply them with my phone number they stopped contacting me:clap2:


----------



## SJH11

duped said:


> After refusing to supply them with my phone number they stopped contacting me:clap2:


Hi Duped, yes apparently they do like to try to get into conversation over the phone - another typical fraudster trait!


----------



## SJH11

duped said:


> After refusing to supply them with my phone number they stopped contacting me:clap2:


did they offer you an apartment swap for an extra £20k?


----------



## scubadoo1

SJH11 said:


> Hello, Yes, lots of us have been contacted by this firm. We think they got our emails from an old IPI list as they haven't been able to contact some people who changed their email addresses. Nobody is having anything to do with them. To my knowledge, only one other person has been offered an apartment swap - but it's not a swap, you've got to pay them several thousand more!! Sounds like typical fraudsters.


Thanks for your reply SJH,

I think so too. Its very strange how they got contact details and also that a legal firm would chose to commuicate in such a way. The whole MABR thing is really stressing me out. It's not that I lost my whole life savings but its still hard earned cash and it also frustrating not being able to do anything about it. I thought that after my sight visit last Autumn that I could trust them to complete despite the delays. I would rather see it completed and not lose my money and I couldn't really care less about payments for delays in completion to be honest.

Whats the concensus among the investors about the project as a whole?


----------



## duped

SJH11 said:


> did they offer you an apartment swap for an extra £20k?


No they didn't. That would have absolutely confirmed that they were scammers.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Have you ever checked the headers of your emails to find out from what country the email originates ?


----------



## duped

MaidenScotland said:


> Have you ever checked the headers of your emails to find out from what country the email originates ?


They come from his own dot com website; he uses 2 phone numbers codes are 0033 and 0039. I can supply his full address by private message if you want.


----------



## MaidenScotland

duped said:


> They come from his own dot com website; he uses 2 phone numbers codes are 0033 and 0039. I can supply his full address by private message if you want.




No it is ok thanks..I am not involved.

He is using a France and Italian phone number.. wonder if these are mobiles that are on roaming. 

Seems rather strange to me that he would be using two different countries unless of course he doesn't want to be tracked.


----------



## MaidenScotland

check your email headers to see where the email originated... mobile phones from other countries can be on roaming..


----------



## SJH11

scubadoo1 said:


> Thanks for your reply SJH,
> 
> I think so too. Its very strange how they got contact details and also that a legal firm would chose to commuicate in such a way. The whole MABR thing is really stressing me out. It's not that I lost my whole life savings but its still hard earned cash and it also frustrating not being able to do anything about it. I thought that after my sight visit last Autumn that I could trust them to complete despite the delays. I would rather see it completed and not lose my money and I couldn't really care less about payments for delays in completion to be honest.
> 
> Whats the concensus among the investors about the project as a whole?


They are not a long-standing legal firm, from what i can see they have not been set up long. Certainly the managing director hasn't been around long. Google him. Or is your letter from the woman?


----------



## SJH11

MaidenScotland said:


> check your email headers to see where the email originated... mobile phones from other countries can be on roaming..


The lead guy is based in France so that ties in with 0033


----------



## SJH11

scubadoo1 said:


> Thanks for your reply SJH,
> 
> Whats the concensus among the investors about the project as a whole?


I think most of us are willing to wait a couple of months, apparently there is news of an investor. We all want the site to be built, that's the only way we will at least get our money back.


----------



## scubadoo1

SJH11 said:


> did they offer you an apartment swap for an extra £20k?


Yeah something like that. 

For everyone following this discussion here's a little information I recieved (free) from a UK based international lawyer:

He said that a swap will not remove the contractual obligation with IPI. He also suggested waiting a while as it sounds like IPI is struggling financially and that if that fails to get a group together to start legal action as we stand a better chance and can split the cost (£475 p.h.). Individually we may be "throwing good money after bad" as he put it.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I understand these interfering solicitors letters are coming from French and German sources and are speculating that MABR owners will leave and want their funds back, cashing in on a scam.

As an agent of El Sery it struck me that client e-mail addresses must have been lifted by an employee of the now defunct IPI marketing sector and I'm as angry as clients are for confidential information being circulated.

El Sery will restart construction with new funding partners and those who have patience will see rewards. However those who require refunds must accept administration charges if you ask to cancel contracts. Those who wish to push for the penalty clauses must apply via your solicitors as this is a legal obligation not a verbal way forward. 

Most of those investors challenging the company are Italians who bought into the half of MABR sold by the Italian marketing partner and it caused most of the trouble we see now. Hence the surge of Italian sales wanting their money back, effecting confidence in the rest of the project sold by our UK and European agents.

We all need to know that the escrow account still has client monies and I'm in discussions with top officials shortly to get answers.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

*Legalities*



scubadoo1 said:


> Yeah something like that.
> 
> For everyone following this discussion here's a little information I recieved (free) from a UK based international lawyer:
> 
> He said that a swap will not remove the contractual obligation with IPI. He also suggested waiting a while as it sounds like IPI is struggling financially and that if that fails to get a group together to start legal action as we stand a better chance and can split the cost (£475 p.h.). Individually we may be "throwing good money after bad" as he put it.


Please note, International Lawyers HAVE NO LEGAL JURISDICTION IN EGYPT if they are not registered in Egypt with a licensed operating company. They need to have Arabic speaking partners who can stand up in court to defend clients..
Every UK or international real estate lawyer uses sub-contract Egyptian clerks to do their bidding and charge >400% above Egypt rates.

There is nothing more crooked than an "ambulance chasing" lawyer.
Ohh I forgot, there's the bankers that put everyone in this mess in the first place.


----------



## duped

Eco-Mariner said:


> Please note, International
> Ohh I forgot, there's the bankers that put everyone in this mess in the first place.


The Arab Spring didn't help either.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

duped said:


> The Arab Spring didn't help either.


And neither will the consequences of a MB President and an Islamic government help either. Their motives are completely opposite to societies that value freedom and justice and what it really means is a replacement for the NDP regime and further plundering of its people and the foreigners who may visit or invest.

Zaffarana resort was infiltrated by the Egyptian regime. MABR was trying not to allow SCAF to interfere, but it has and due process had to take over. What we all hope is the new Government now understand the impact previous SCAF control and corruption had on its economy and let free market forces be the order of the day.


----------



## scubadoo1

the problem caused by european bankers has to be one of the biggest kick in the teeth for hard working tax payers. They got rich, bailed out then we have to pay higher taxes. 

Pease let me know when you here something regarding the escrow accounts Eco-Mariner.


----------



## leeroberts

I see one of the EMR's CEO is going to be doing time for fraud (small mercies). Hope he enjoys the couple of years (max) and has plenty of time to look back on what he and his co-partners put people through at Zafarana!!!

Anyway, I still believe, the quickest outcome will be early next year concerning the court case (don't hold out much hope on this - Europeans in an Egyptian court etc), and the steering group should have a resolution as if they are able to proceed legally by the last quarter of this year.

So fingers crossed for the steering group.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

What does this tell you...? In my book, having completed the circle suing companies like EMR in my backyard Hurghada, these crimes are done by the Egyptian partners and not the European partners who in all good faith entered into business to complete projects not to pull out from them half finished. Completed developments and tourist facilities are where profits are supposed to be made, not from deposits by customers.

The latest knock-on effect with El Sery Directors in Marsa Alam Beach Resort is not associated, but the same infiltration by the government and SCAF is quite apparant.

The underlying problem is that there is no regulatory body other than court proceedures, which obviously take time and money. Ultimately however this is also contrived as the government seek to claw back the projects by default.

The losers ?... Investors of course, as you never see the government paying you all back while in receivership or after the companies have been liquidated, do you?

The projects then get sold to families for peanuts further down the line and ownership is always in contension, just like in Spain and Cyprus. The plot thickens let me tell you.


----------



## tomnellyuk

Hi,
Do you know anything about IPI and the Marsa Alarm WOW beach resort, As I paid for a 2 bed appartment in Sep 2008 and still not completed yet, Ive had a Legal company email me GIC but have been advised to stay away from them.

Thanks 

Tom


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Ignore these speculating lawyers. No company can determine the survival or success of El Sery-Wellbeing, the developers of MABR at this stage.

GIC are fishing for cash from distressed clients when the problem is mostly of Italian making. 
Let the Italians sort out their own issues with companies like GIC and I would insist the UK/Dutch owners sort it out with a bone-fide Egyptian lawyer with Egyptian credentials, if and when the time comes.


Eco Mariner.


----------



## SJH11

Hi Tom, I'm a MABR investor too. I don't know of any MABR investor that is having anything to do with GIC. There might be some Zafarana investors that are using them (maybe someone can confirm that). But MABR and Zafarana appear to be quite different entities.


----------



## leeroberts

tomnellyuk said:


> Hi,
> Do you know anything about IPI and the Marsa Alarm WOW beach resort, As I paid for a 2 bed appartment in Sep 2008 and still not completed yet, Ive had a Legal company email me GIC but have been advised to stay away from them.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom


Hi Tom
For the Zafarana (and I can't see it being much different the the Marsa project) - there is an 80% (maybe 90%) that my money is lost.....

The slim chances are that the TDA favor IPI, and from what I have read IPI are not making themselves the darlings of the TDA in Egypt....
The other option is to give EMR the asking price again (30k) and convert the contracts to Egyptian (which was one of the stumbling blocks) and they will finish my apartment (which I guess shouldn't cost more that 10k to finish and furniture) 

Marsa investors need to get a steering group together, it's only that the Zafa investors have had to do this some years ago now, and are well established - you should be able to learn from their experiences and costs involved - maybe a good thing to do is to see how the Zaf steerig group get on first and if they win - then you have your avenue of direction - rather than wasting money on dead ends.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Lee....You forget !!!! 
TDA are the very framework of companies like EMR and it was the likes that gave companies like IPI the licences to build and to promote..... Why are the TDA involved, because of their connections (businesses and families who were offered land and shares/partnersips.) 

So why would this Egyptian ex-regime, side with any foreign company wanting to come to Egypt and try to be successful?

On the contrary, the "long-scam" was to make every 'outsider' project fail so they could take over by default.... Often for free, after YOUR MONEY part buit them.

Now do you get it everyone.


Eco-Mariner.

p.s. I'm not afraid in the TDA reading this truth on here, I'm already winning court battles against their operations. A few more insults and I'm expecting a law-suit..... I say bring it on Ministers.


----------



## lucabrnroma

hi eco mariner...ipi and el sery said that the problems come from italian investors...it's a complete lie! they continue to pull our legs talking about a new investor but at the moment there's no investor at all. they are trying to take time and abuse of our patience .Some italian investors payd for a lawyer in order to check the real financial situation...the truth is that in the escrow accounts there's only few money(they said that most of money have been used to buy...the interior furnishing!!!), the works are stopped from a long time and no joint venture with another partner have been done.
they continue to use the major force for not paying the penalty of delay and are not a serious at all.
i hope for well for everybody...but i don't trust on this company. best regards
p.s. sorry for my poor english


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I've spoken on the phone today in great depth with El Sery's Eric Maan.
They have no grounds for failure in MABR. Only if SCAF and the institution behind SCAF place more obsticles in their way will it fail and that will not be the case because they are determined not to let them ruin El Sery-Wellbeing and Marsa Alam Beach Resort, like they did with Zafarana

El Sery have indeed used some Egypt escrow account money for construction. The issue is not what those Dutch and Egypt accounts hold in reserves, but what SCAF and the Central Bank of Egypt have designs for it. Hence the scepticsm of the International Investment Banks who are in negotiation with El Sery (to continue with construction) concerning Bank Guarantees for any future injection of working capital.

Mr. Maan will be in contact with each and every MABR investor and will also be explaining in detail in a Newsletter outlining the current difficuties. However, no matter how much mud sticks to the present Egyptian Authorities and their excuses for clamping down on Egypt's construction industry as a whole, they say not until a President is put in place, a new Constitution is written and a proper Parliamentary Assembly gets itself organised, no performance will be seen in this market..... Or many other markets for that matter.

So I suggest, what is the point in arguing amongst yourselves when you don't get the bigger picture. Any winner here will be the courts and legal officials skimming money off you all. 
Money that you don't have under the present economic climate.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## Lee Penni

Hi I'm new to the forum but have been watching in the background with interest.

I am an Investor in Marsa alam and I am concerned as everyone else is about our investment.

I also have received correspondence from the GIC-legal company and I urge people to tread with caution if you are even contemplating using them. 

I agree with many other members who state that they are speculation lawyers and if you do a little digging yourself you will see what they are saying doesn't ring true.

Kind Regards

Penni


----------



## Cliff123

Hi Penni I am in contact with quite a few MABR investors and nobody trusts GIC Legal. Have you received an invite to a meeting in London? I have just received a response from El Sery about this but they have asked that I do not make it public the most I can say here is that they are not happy with GIC. If you make 5 posts on this site you can then private message me and I can tell you a bit more.
regards
Cliff


Lee Penni said:


> Hi I'm new to the forum but have been watching in the background with interest.
> 
> I am an Investor in Marsa alam and I am concerned as everyone else is about our investment.
> 
> I also have received correspondence from the GIC-legal company and I urge people to tread with caution if you are even contemplating using them.
> 
> I agree with many other members who state that they are speculation lawyers and if you do a little digging yourself you will see what they are saying doesn't ring true.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Penni


----------



## Lee Penni

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Penni I am in contact with quite a few MABR investors and nobody trusts GIC Legal. Have you received an invite to a meeting in London? I have just received a response from El Sery about this but they have asked that I do not make it public the most I can say here is that they are not happy with GIC. If you make 5 posts on this site you can then private message me and I can tell you a bit more.
> regards
> Cliff


Hi Cliff,

Yes I have received the invite to London and I also have received a response from El Sery which I believe will probably have the same information as yourself.

It would be good to be in regular contact with people in the same position!

But again I am not naive and foolish enough to think all is well but as long as there is a small chance of a successful outcome I will try and stay positive.

Kind Regards

Penni


----------



## Cliff123

Hi Penni
I think you have the same mindset as the rest of our group. Please make a few more posts so that I can pm you 
Cliff


Lee Penni said:


> Hi Cliff,
> 
> Yes I have received the invite to London and I also have received a response from El Sery which I believe will probably have the same information as yourself.
> 
> It would be good to be in regular contact with people in the same position!
> 
> But again I am not naive and foolish enough to think all is well but as long as there is a small chance of a successful outcome I will try and stay positive.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Penni


----------



## Lee Penni

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Penni
> I think you have the same mindset as the rest of our group. Please make a few more posts so that I can pm you
> Cliff


Will do!


----------



## Lee Penni

Forgot to say Thanks


----------



## Cliff123

Hi Penni
I see that you are listed as Lee Penni do I call you Lee or Penni ?Thanks for the posts I think we are nearly there.
Cliff


Lee Penni said:


> Forgot to say Thanks


----------



## Lee Penni

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Penni
> I see that you are listed as Lee Penni do I call you Lee or Penni ?Thanks for the posts I think we are nearly there.
> Cliff


Penni's fine Cliff..... thanks!


----------



## Cliff123

Thanks Penni I have sent you a private message.
Cliff


Lee Penni said:


> Penni's fine Cliff..... thanks!


----------



## samcaz1

Regarding zafarana are we as investors expected to sit back and wait for the bull**** to rid us of our hard earned cash or can we do something positive now to enhance our prospects of getting the propertys delivered, watching the project progress it looked almost there structurally, escrow account delivering moneys in stages, anthony seddon & co solicitors overseeing the legalities, where is the problem lying..............


----------



## SJH11

Is anyone going to the "GIC FIRST MABR CLIENT MEETING UK" at Stansted Airport later this month?


----------



## Lee Penni

SJH11 said:


> Is anyone going to the "GIC FIRST MABR CLIENT MEETING UK" at Stansted Airport later this month?


Everyone I have spoke to has said "NO"!


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Wait until owners get this week-ends buletins from El Sery before jumping to conclusion.


----------



## SJH11

Am i missing something? Was there a post by Red Sea Curtains? Did it get deleted?


----------



## Cliff123

SJH11 said:


> Am i missing something? Was there a post by Red Sea Curtains? Did it get deleted?


I also wonderd the same I had notification both on the Zaf and Mabr forums.


----------



## MaidenScotland

SJH11 said:


> Am i missing something? Was there a post by Red Sea Curtains? Did it get deleted?




Yes it did, the post was for advertising plus the user name is a violation of our rules


----------



## tomnellyuk

*Mabr*

Hi all,

Has anybody herd from El Sery in the last month, they sent me a copy of a letter they had sent to GIC with a number of questions on it.?

Tom


----------



## leeroberts

Has anybody heard any news on Zafarana - been so long now since anything from either party!!!


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## Eco-Mariner

When the top crooks are freed to continue their scams, you would expect the same ex-NDP EMR directors to continue their argument and to fight IPI's demands for completion of works. 

With so much scandal and confusion and cash-shortages over the Real Estate industry, Zafarana will be years in the courts before it comes to any suitable conclusion.


Eco-Mariner


----------



## SJH11

Does anybody know anything about the Egyptian lawyer that GIC are employing? What are his credentials?


----------



## soulje

Hi Gary, please let us kow how anyone could be helpful to you?


----------



## MaidenScotland

Only comments relevant to Zafarana are allowed on this thread.. please do not discuss other business dealings.


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## soulje

Hi Maiden, my reply to Gary has nothing to do with business deals or something like it. I am an owner of an apartment on The Zafarana resort, and just wondered if anyone could be helpful to him and maybe others in any way.


----------



## leeroberts

soulje said:


> Hi Maiden, my reply to Gary has nothing to do with business deals or something like it. I am an owner of an apartment on The Zafarana resort, and just wondered if anyone could be helpful to him and maybe others in any way.


Hi soulje
When you say "an owner of an apartment on the zafarana resort", do you mean an owner in waiting or have you re-bought your apt.?

lee


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## soulje

*ownership Zafarana*

Hello Lee,

We are the legitimate owners of an apartment on what was Zafarana Beach Resort, but is now days called El Hayah Beach Resort, in Zafarana, Egypt. We bought the apartment in 2006 from IPI, who did not give us our purchase, while it was standing there, ready to use, for already a couple of years. We became more than tired from waiting for IPI to deliver. So we asked EMR to hand over the apartment to us. In return we did have to pay EMR our share of the amount of money they lost on IPI and they need to finish of the resort. We did not purchase the apartment again. For the last year we are finally the legitimate owners.There are more European owners now, who also became tired of waiting and did not have any faith in IPI. The building period in the contracts was only 12 months. In the meantime more than 6 years past..... EMR finishes the apartments and the resort very nicely and untill now to everybodys satisfaction.


----------



## Dawnied

*Mabr*

Hi
I've just found this posting and am interested to hear if you are one of the Italian investors who bought from IPS and are now dealing with GIC? Is it true that your money never reached the escrow account? So many rumours flying about - it would be interested to speak to someone from the Italian side.









denisj77 said:


> Hy Sam,
> I'm a Italian Investor in Marsa Alam Beach Resort Phase 2 ( IPI Group )
> Have you got Info? Can You help me? Here in Italy , the principal seller of IPI Project (IPS) , addressed all of us investors in mabr to start a law suit with a Lower Company in Amsterdam (Boekel de Nerèe).
> My-Email: [
> Thanks


----------



## river_traveler

Sam said:


> For anybody who has either bought in this project or thinking to buy in this project, please be aware that a Dutch company known as IPI has been ILLEGALLY selling this project. The legitimate Egyptian developers have already established a court case against them.
> 
> For anybody who may be affected by this you may contact me for further information.
> 
> For anybody buying any property in Egypt please be aware of non-Egyptian representatives, especially agents marketing the project, signing the contract. They almost never have the authority to do so and a lot of people have lost money this way.


Thank you for warning!


----------



## leeroberts

soulje said:


> Hello Lee,
> 
> We are the legitimate owners of an apartment on what was Zafarana Beach Resort, but is now days called El Hayah Beach Resort, in Zafarana, Egypt. We bought the apartment in 2006 from IPI, who did not give us our purchase, while it was standing there, ready to use, for already a couple of years. We became more than tired from waiting for IPI to deliver. So we asked EMR to hand over the apartment to us. In return we did have to pay EMR our share of the amount of money they lost on IPI and they need to finish of the resort. We did not purchase the apartment again. For the last year we are finally the legitimate owners.There are more European owners now, who also became tired of waiting and did not have any faith in IPI. The building period in the contracts was only 12 months. In the meantime more than 6 years past..... EMR finishes the apartments and the resort very nicely and untill now to everybodys satisfaction.


Hi
The court case in Holland has told allot, it seems that people that repaid for their apartments from EMR (gotten new contracts etc.) will also lose out if IPI go under - as these new contracts are not safe - you need to get in contact with one of the steering groups - to get the wording - but IPI themselves have stated this now, after the court case!!!

Looks like we are all back in this together even the people that have repaid\over paid for their apartment.


----------



## leeroberts

soulje said:


> Hi Maiden, my reply to Gary has nothing to do with business deals or something like it. I am an owner of an apartment on The Zafarana resort, and just wondered if anyone could be helpful to him and maybe others in any way.


Hi Soulje
The court case in Holland has told allot, it seems that people that repaid for their apartments from EMR (gotten new contracts etc.) will also lose out if IPI go under - as these new contracts are not safe - you need to get in contact with one of the steering groups - to get the wording - but IPI themselves have stated this now, after the court case!!!

Looks like we are all back in this together even the people that have repaid\over paid for their apartment.


----------



## realinvestor

leeroberts said:


> Hi
> The court case in Holland has told allot, it seems that people that repaid for their apartments from EMR (gotten new contracts etc.) will also lose out if IPI go under - as these new contracts are not safe - you need to get in contact with one of the steering groups - to get the wording - but IPI themselves have stated this now, after the court case!!!
> 
> Looks like we are all back in this together even the people that have repaid\over paid for their apartment.


Investors who paid more to EMR to get their apartments completed and become legal owners have nothing to fear. I know of three investors who have done extensive due diligence via a variety of Egyptian lawyers and all the guidance is the same. EMR is the legitimate owner of the land and the resort itself and as long as the process is done via the courts it is not only legitimate but legally empowers investors to secure their property under Egyptian law. Even in the worst case scenario of EMR going under, they will still be the owners of the unit. Anyone who states that the new contracts between EMR and the investors are not safe has virtually no idea of the process of ownership in Egypt and are misleading investors as they are associated with IPI. The court case in Netherlands was explicit in that IPI is now liable to pay all investors both for accrued rent and for delivery of apartments. Anyone who is left singing for IPI is now singing their song in the depths of the IPI grave.


----------



## Lisajayne1

Please can someone help!! This is my 1st time to a forum! We brought an apartment in MABR 21/2 years ago and have been burying our head in the sand & praying it will all come good in the end!!
A few months ago we were awaiting new investors & once again stupidly I hoped this was true 
Now I am not getting replies to my emails & searched for IPI site but came across this forum. 
Please please please can someone help me as to what is actually happening & where we stand with IPI & the escrow accounts?
I am so overwhelmed by what I have just read on the forum that I really could use some advise from someone who is unto date with what is happening


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## Eco-Mariner

Please note: Marsa Alam Beach Resort posts has its own thread.

Zafarana was originally a partnership with IPI however the two projects have totally different issues. That's why many investors are getting confused.


Eco-Mariner.
p.m. me if anyone needs updates.


----------



## siamoricat

Hi, I am an investor with MABR and in communication with around 70 other investors. We are looking to start legal action and are interested to know the outcome of the Zafarana situation. Could anyone please advise the outcome. Also who the lawyers were? We are at the stage of looking for reputable lawyers.


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## soulje

*article*

Hi Siamoricat, you can read about what happened with the Zafarana project in the article "Expats ripped off buying property in Egypt, on expatmoneywatch


----------



## leeroberts

realinvestor said:


> Investors who paid more to EMR to get their apartments completed and become legal owners have nothing to fear. I know of three investors who have done extensive due diligence via a variety of Egyptian lawyers and all the guidance is the same. EMR is the legitimate owner of the land and the resort itself and as long as the process is done via the courts it is not only legitimate but legally empowers investors to secure their property under Egyptian law. Even in the worst case scenario of EMR going under, they will still be the owners of the unit. Anyone who states that the new contracts between EMR and the investors are not safe has virtually no idea of the process of ownership in Egypt and are misleading investors as they are associated with IPI. The court case in Netherlands was explicit in that IPI is now liable to pay all investors both for accrued rent and for delivery of apartments. Anyone who is left singing for IPI is now singing their song in the depths of the IPI grave.


From what has been said in the forum (Steering committee) and IPI (though I would take them with a pinch of salt) - people who have renegotiated their contracts with EMR for their apartments are not safe.....as they can't have the deeds until the RESORT is finished......thus they do not fully own the apartment and if EMR go under that will only complicate things as to who owns what!!!


----------



## realinvestor

leeroberts said:


> From what has been said in the forum (Steering committee) and IPI (though I would take them with a pinch of salt) - people who have renegotiated their contracts with EMR for their apartments are not safe.....as they can't have the deeds until the RESORT is finished......thus they do not fully own the apartment and if EMR go under that will only complicate things as to who owns what!!!


Mr Roberts, I disagree with your view that investors who have renegotiated with EMR will lose out as well. You are right in that these investors will need the full green registration ultimately when the TDA resolves the matter. But at least this sale agreement has been sanctioned by the court as well as verified properly and this is the same procedure for over 90% of all Egyptian property agreements which are normally validated under the court-verification system. With most of the resort almost built and the land owned by EMR, the TDA has already announced that this is a commercial matter that will need to be addressed by the civil case that EMR first brought against IPI. The steering committees handling the ZBR matter in ZBR are both lame ducks unable to do nothing with only the Dutch foundation still behind IPI. And we all now know the truth about the scandals at IPI and the huge fraud committed there. In essence the reality is that in ZBR the problems with EMR have been of a commercial nature as they were unable to finish the resort and both EMR and IPI had huge contractual issues with each other and only a civil court in Egypt can address how best to resolve this commercial matter. The real fraudulent activity possibly started when the seeds of this mess were being laid by IPI, a huge misrepresentation on their marketing and false advertising and crucially how they sucked and milked investors by using the sanctity of an indepenendt escrow account.....I know of three investors who have independtly found out that the two of the three directors of the escrow accounts at both MABR and ZBR were Jurgen's family members!


----------



## Eco-Mariner

And that was where the exploitation of public funds started.
To them it must have been seen as a licence to print money and the £750 fund security fee was a deliberate scam.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## SJH11

Eco-Mariner said:


> And that was where the exploitation of public funds started.
> To them it must have been seen as a licence to print money and the £750 fund security fee was a deliberate scam.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Do you have any suggestions what we investors should do about this. I know Eric Maan is trying to get the resort built but does that mean Jurgen Oddens and his family get away with this fraud?


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I have experiences of unfinished projects and prosecutions.....

Unless owners actually register their ownership of *"a sale" *then they have no grounds to sue or ask who ever takes over to complete it for you.
As IPI and now IPI-El Sery have built in Egypt, then that's where everyone's cases should be justified and this process is more than the Court Signiture Validation.

A Green Certificate stating you are full owner of the unit is the only way any investor can contest malpractice, exploitation, failure to fulfil contracts or even fraud in Egypt. That route not only secures your purchase but gives you rights in Egypt.

I state this because a Judge has to recognise your case and property/unit/location etc. irrespective of whether the money was misused or fruadulently obtained..... The law is clear in Egypt and the facts are clear, there was a sale and you have receipts.... So how would the courts know until you register them in the courts and obtain a case number justifying it, in the event you wish to sue at a later stage.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## SJH11

Eco-Mariner said:


> I have experiences of unfinished projects and prosecutions.....
> 
> Unless owners actually register their ownership of *"a sale" *then they have no grounds to sue or ask who ever takes over to complete it for you.
> As IPI and now IPI-El Sery have built in Egypt, then that's where everyone's cases should be justified and this process is more than the Court Signiture Validation.
> 
> A Green Certificate stating you are full owner of the unit is the only way any investor can contest malpractice, exploitation, failure to fulfil contracts or even fraud in Egypt. That route not only secures your purchase but gives you rights in Egypt.
> 
> I state this because a Judge has to recognise your case and property/unit/location etc. irrespective of whether the money was misused or fruadulently obtained..... The law is clear in Egypt and the facts are clear, there was a sale and you have receipts.... So how would the courts know until you register them in the courts and obtain a case number justifying it, in the event you wish to sue at a later stage.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


This is precisely why I cannot sue in Egypt. It appears IPI have furnished me (and others) with fake contracts. When some of us approached IPI to say we needed dual language contracts, we were told they were not needed. This is why I am looking to Holland. Jurgen Oddens set up the Escrow illegally knowing that money was to be taken out of it immediately contrary to everything we were told. Why else would he get his mother and step-father to be signatories? Oddens must have planned this fraud from the start. This was all done in Holland with a Dutch bank and with an English firm of solicitors doing the Due Diligence. I don't see that this has anything to do with Egypt. I say that Jurgen Oddens is a crook; he and his family members are personally liable under Dutch Escrow laws and they must be prosecuted in Holland.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> I have experiences of unfinished projects and prosecutions.....
> 
> Unless owners actually register their ownership of *"a sale" *then they have no grounds to sue or ask who ever takes over to complete it for you.
> As IPI and now IPI-El Sery have built in Egypt, then that's where everyone's cases should be justified and this process is more than the Court Signiture Validation.
> 
> A Green Certificate stating you are full owner of the unit is the only way any investor can contest malpractice, exploitation, failure to fulfil contracts or even fraud in Egypt. That route not only secures your purchase but gives you rights in Egypt.
> 
> I state this because a Judge has to recognise your case and property/unit/location etc. irrespective of whether the money was misused or fruadulently obtained..... The law is clear in Egypt and the facts are clear, there was a sale and you have receipts.... So how would the courts know until you register them in the courts and obtain a case number justifying it, in the event you wish to sue at a later stage.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.



You are right in that the courts will need to look at all documents including purchase nd sale agreements and money transfer receipts etc. However, I strongly disagree with you that the courts will only allow registered green documents. As I have stated before over 90% of all Egyptian transactions used the court signature validation procedures (after al it is court-verified) and therefore the courts do indeed address these contracts. I know of quite a few people who have done so in Egypt and have had their matters fully addressed by the courts. What is a must is that you have dual language sales and purchase agreements and that the land is indeed owned by an Egyptian ( person or entity) and that you provide evidence of what you paid. So in MABR as long as you have an El Sery contract in dual language and provide evidence of money transfer you have a strong case. In ZBR, investors will have a lot of difficulty as the original contracts were between the investor and IPI in Netherlands and even then they were not in dual language. So there is no way you can enforce that. The court verification is a tested and tried model in Egypt and the court will always ensure that they have the full details of both the seller (the land owner) and the buyer and will enact procedures to make sure that the owner owns the land is a willing seller etc.. before giving approval to the ownership status. Of course the green registration is a more secure process and another security layer but it will take a long time before this process is widely used.


----------



## SJH11

realinvestor said:


> So in MABR as long as you have an El Sery contract in dual language [......] you have a strong case.


That's most of us stuffed then! IPI told some of us we didn't need dual language contracts. I also hear that there are problems with some of the dual language contracts because IPI lied about the Power of Attorney with El Sery.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Then you were conned from day one. 
When I saw the flaws especially in the lack of factual content of the translations when my Egyptian client's scrutised the diligence of the MABR contract, I never continued promoting it. I knew this was going to be an issue even more so with the Italian connection reneged on their agency contract.

I still insist that the CSV is only a stepping stone to ownership. Fully registering your purchase to obtain a green certificate is a mighty document to hold up in court when you need to. Unless you test the system you will never know.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## kevr1

SJH11 said:


> That's most of us stuffed then! IPI told some of us we didn't need dual language contracts. I also hear that there are problems with some of the dual language contracts because IPI lied about the Power of Attorney with El Sery.


Hi there, new to this forum.
I would like to hear from anybody who has actually dealt with EMR and gone back and either repurchased!! their apartment or just got rid. Getting fed up to the back teeth of not knowing what is going on with this mess. 
Is the resort! actually up & running & is it worth going back to EMR and paying the extra to get the apartment? Would like to hear from anybody who has actually done the deed. 

Rgds


----------



## realinvestor

Eco Mariner you are right in that one will need to fully test the system in Egypt. But you only have to look at the lessons learned from Zafarana and it is crystal clear that end investors in ZBR are highly unlikely to be able to enforce their legal contracts in Egyptian courts as they were only either in English or Dutch between UK or Dutch ( and possibly other) and IPI. In turn, IPI had no ownership of any apartments at all via the court registered verification system at all as their own contract was in English and drawn up in Netherlands.This strangely was the advice given to IPI by their own former lawyers (and they have changed so many lawyers!) and revealed to an investor I know. Hence it is is no wonder that in Zafarana it was EMR that acutually first brought the civil case against IPI to cancel their contract. And as IPI knew they were in deep trouble, they used the criminal suit to divert attention away from the real commercial issues, and of course they have been somewhat successful in painting a BAD EMR in the eyes of the Dutch foundation that is still in bed with IPI. In many ways IPI have shot themselves on the other foot as they have claimed that MABR investors will be unsussful in thier legal case against El Sery due to INVALID contracts, because this also means that their very own contract with IPI was long invalid! And now with so much open evidence of fraud within IPI and mismanagement of escrows, all this will find its way in the Egyptian court system as well.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Don't you think this was all planned from the very beginning?
I believe both Zafarana and MABR were designed to fail as 95% of Egyptian residential projects were also placed in similar situations so that the authorities could claim them by default.

My team of legal associates suggest 90% of contracts, even if they were dual translated could be worthless if the projects were destined to fail. Hence my insistance to have more than CSV to prove your ownership rights. Receipts of payments especially those who paid in full, prove a sale therefore the building you bought in Egypt should legally be yours (built or not) once you challenge it through the courts.

That process is not actually suing anyone at this stage as that would be seen as provocation. It is a necessary step in case litigation ensues.


Eco-Mariner.


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## Eco-Mariner

I tested the legal system in Hurghada High Courts and proved that our fully audited accounts were genuine and won our cases. Therefore the accused developers were judged guilty of fraud BECAUSE they couldn't produce accurate audited accounts to contest ours. The same will apply if owners push for justice with IPI and EMR.


Eco-Mariner.


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## SJH11

Eco-Mariner said:


> I tested the legal system in Hurghada High Courts and proved that our fully audited accounts were genuine and won our cases. Therefore the accused developers were judged guilty of fraud BECAUSE they couldn't produce accurate audited accounts to contest ours. The same will apply if owners push for justice with IPI and EMR.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


I hope this does happen and that IPI are adjudged guilty of fraud - there is certainly enough evidence of this. ZBR investors have, in a sense, been held to ransom in order to get their apartments built. MABR investors appear to have lost all their money, what are the real chances of recouping anything? MABR was a 25 million euro fraud. I agree with you that it was planned to fail. IPI were guilty of deception from the start. The best we can hope for is Jurgen Oddens, his mother and step father to lose their houses, cars, yachts and planes and go to prison for a very long time. But with this money recouped shared among 597 investors, it won't come to much.


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## soulje

Dear Kevr1, 
We are the ones who did the deed almost 2 years ago and still don't regret it. Sure it was sad to pay EMR an extra amount they lost by IPI, but now we are the legitimate owners of a beautiful apartment, very close to the Red Sea, which we can enjoy when ever we like. The resort is not up and running yet, but EMR is doing a great job in finishing the project. Swimming pools are in operation and great food being served. EMR is planning a soft opening next spring. In the mean time quit some European IPI-clients are doing business with EMR. Untill now they did not let anybody down. The same goes for the buyers who returned their unit to EMR. They are getting paid by EMR as planned. Last summer there were quit some European owners enjoying their summer vacation on the resort. Untill now we get great service and more respect than we ever got from IPI. They only took the money of about 1.000hard working people and deliverd nothing but lies and lots of sleepless nights on both spoiled projects.


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## leeroberts

soulje said:


> Dear Kevr1,
> We are the ones who did the deed almost 2 years ago and still don't regret it. Sure it was sad to pay EMR an extra amount they lost by IPI, but now we are the legitimate owners of a beautiful apartment, very close to the Red Sea, which we can enjoy when ever we like. The resort is not up and running yet, but EMR is doing a great job in finishing the project. Swimming pools are in operation and great food being served. EMR is planning a soft opening next spring. In the mean time quit some European IPI-clients are doing business with EMR. Untill now they did not let anybody down. The same goes for the buyers who returned their unit to EMR. They are getting paid by EMR as planned. Last summer there were quit some European owners enjoying their summer vacation on the resort. Untill now we get great service and more respect than we ever got from IPI. They only took the money of about 1.000hard working people and deliverd nothing but lies and lots of sleepless nights on both spoiled projects.




It nearly makes me sick soulje to hear you sounding like an EMR brochure....it's amazing that EMR is now putting it's full weight behind the finishing of the resort, considering all the stoppages they done over the years to slow it to a halt (and make IPI pay up the overdue payments to investors - EMR know what they were doing too)....don't think for one minute that EMR is your friend out there.....and don't try and (re)sell us our apartments....you should be so ashamed of yourself for flaunting that it was easy to do business with EMR....you are such a sad couple.....so many have lost money and you think that it's like turning a page on a book - easy for us to take in your gloating......oh by the way don't bother sending us pictures of the resort again....holy f**k that was disgusting!!!!


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## realinvestor

leeroberts said:


> It nearly makes me sick soulje to hear you sounding like an EMR brochure....it's amazing that EMR is now putting it's full weight behind the finishing of the resort, considering all the stoppages they done over the years to slow it to a halt (and make IPI pay up the overdue payments to investors - EMR know what they were doing too)....don't think for one minute that EMR is your friend out there.....and don't try and (re)sell us our apartments....you should be so ashamed of yourself for flaunting that it was easy to do business with EMR....you are such a sad couple.....so many have lost money and you think that it's like turning a page on a book - easy for us to take in your gloating......oh by the way don't bother sending us pictures of the resort again....holy f**k that was disgusting!!!!


Mr Roberts,

Your remarks are out of line and frankly quite abusive to members. This is a forum and all should respect different views. You may have a completely different view of what has happened and what will likely happen but you cannot just ignore the rights of others to express actually what be be factually correct as well. In terms of the facts, mist who have dealt with EMR are not saying that tiger are either angels or gods. Of course they are in the wrong in some respects. at the end it boils down to a commercial decision as to how best to save one's investment. And here the fingers should be pointed at IPI where the fraud actually started. Do you know where your final escrow balance is? and did you know that this was a scam from IPI right from the start and did you know the two of the former escrow managers were actually Jurgen's family members? who have have also misappropriated the MABR escrow funds on a much larger scale than ZBR. The reason so many have lost money is mostly due to the scam and fraud at IPI as the full story unravels in front of us now. At least EMR is still offering to pay you back at least Eur17k for an apartment and while this may be a third of what we put, is IPI or any of their directors prepared to pay you that? The 50% of the funds we paid to IPI went to build ZBR as it stands today and one could argue that EMR could have pocketed some of that in profits. But how about IPI which took the other 50%, are they willing to give any of the profits back to you? or willing to fight the case in Egypt? In summary you need to put things into perspective and the facts tell us that the bulk of the problems at ZBR were incompetence, fraud and mismanagement at IPI


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## MaidenScotland

They only took the money of about 1.000hard working people and deliverd nothing but lies and lots of sleepless nights on both spoiled projects.


taking the money from one person never mind about 1000 is not something to be so easily dismissed


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## realinvestor

MaidenScotland said:


> They only took the money of about 1.000hard working people and deliverd nothing but lies and lots of sleepless nights on both spoiled projects.
> 
> 
> taking the money from one person never mind about 1000 is not something to be so easily dismissed


well said Maidenscotland. I might add that those who have dealt with EMT have come under no pressure to do so and it has all been a matter of weighing and assessing factual developments and protecting one's investments given all the constraints.


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## Eco-Mariner

This is what we call a "chicken and egg" scenario.... Who did what first?

In my long experience of over 26 years in Egypt and around other Red Sea countries I've found that all businesses in the Arab /African world have their own ulterior motives.

The long-scam being perfected by the financial industry recently has filtered down to opportunist companies like EMR, El Riad, Iraida and hundreds more, while not only screwing their own nationals turned their attention to connecting to foreign marketing companies like Worldwide Destinations, Property Hotspots Worldwide etc. who had plied their trade in the "Time-Share" industry; some prosecuted for malpractices and saw Egypt as an open book.

Naturally these crooks taught Egypt how to scam. Only to find an ever decreasing market because people/investors learn from their mistakes..... Those mid-session buyers often getting nothing for their money, like leeroberts apparantly.

Zafarana was a classic example of partnership mistrust and misuse of investors funds only for the same to happen in MABR because they have had practice of skimming your money. 
GIC see the same as "ambulance chasing" legal advisors.


Eco-Mariner


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## SJH11

*ZBR and Marsa Alam Beach Resort Con / scam / fraud*

I wonder how many of these companies were linked from the start in these scams. We know of links between the legal firm GIC and the Italian sales agent in MABR. 

Big Ben posted something on the MABR section of this site. If you don't read the book, at least read this. It looks like this has happened here: 

I don't know anything about GIC or MABR but i did read a book called the called "The Big Con" by David Maurer. It was about 10 years ago but from what I remember if MABR was a con ( and it sounds likely from what you say) then GIC is probably what they term " the blow off" and has the same people behind it.

Basically its serves two purposes

it identifies people who will throw more money at it ( so they can con you again)

it distracts you from mounting your own investigation/legal challenge and just taps your money /will power until you give up

As I said, I don't know anything about GIC/MABR so I could be completely wrong but I recommend you read the book, its about 8 pounds on Amazon


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## realinvestor

Several Zafarana investors have privately expressed worries as to the implications for ZBR investors of the potential significant fraud at MABR/El sery. NO El Sery/IPI people are left at all in Egypt and the main perpetrators will not come to Egypt now that there will be several laws suits and potential police action agianst them so it just means that there is the Dutch foundation and the Uk legal fund fighting separately to get their hands on Zafarana. Mondi lost the faith of most investors a long time ago and just cannot claim to be an impartial middleman as they are so heavily biased to IPI right from the beginning. I have no idea what they are doing behind the scenes, but I doubt very much that they can do anything at all now that this will be a major court battle. It should be remembered that Rob at Mondi and Jurgen knew each other and it was Jurghen who introduced Mondi to investors to create the aura that IPI was not guilty and there was no fraud. We all know the truth now, and with so many illegal transfers of monies between the two MABR/ZBR escrows and so much money illegally transferred and vanished this nightmare will be hard to come to terms. The scope of misappropriation by IPI so large at MABR that one seriously has to question how to place faith in Mondi to act as an honest broker.


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## kildare

I am a ZBR investor and would appreciate any infomation and contact details regarding possibly gaing control of my investment.
thank you


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## kildare

thats gaining control.

kildare


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## Phillip1210

Hi 1st time post, my Mother invested her life savings into zafarana so I'm now trying to do whatever I can to try and get something back ( if that's even possible. ).
Has anyone had any luck selling thier appartment back to EMR, if so how much did they receive and how did they go about it, sorry am new to this so any assistance would be greatly appreciated


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## realinvestor

Phillip1210 said:


> Hi 1st time post, my Mother invested her life savings into zafarana so I'm now trying to do whatever I can to try and get something back ( if that's even possible. ).
> Has anyone had any luck selling thier appartment back to EMR, if so how much did they receive and how did they go about it, sorry am new to this so any assistance would be greatly appreciated


hi Philip,

Have you joined the Uk legal fund at all? Also did you go through the Uk solicitors Seddons? I understand from some investors who remain in Dialogue with EMR that they are still committed to their original offer of either selling your unit to them (for around eur17k depending on the unit you have) or securing your unit by paying around additional Eur23k. Neither of them will allow any investor to recover their full capital but with IPI almost bankrupt and the odds of the Egyptian case heavily in favour of EMR theatre are no viable alternatives.


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## Phillip1210

realinvestor said:


> hi Philip,
> 
> Have you joined the Uk legal fund at all? Also did you go through the Uk solicitors Seddons? I understand from some investors who remain in Dialogue with EMR that they are still committed to their original offer of either selling your unit to them (for around eur17k depending on the unit you have) or securing your unit by paying around additional Eur23k. Neither of them will allow any investor to recover their full capital but with IPI almost bankrupt and the odds of the Egyptian case heavily in favour of EMR theatre are no viable alternatives.


Hi realinvestor
Thanks for taking the time to reply, she didn't join the legal fund as I think she had just given up hope by then, not sure who the solicitors were, will dig into it. entire life savings were poured into it so paying the additional 23k is a no go but I guess we can explore the possibility of receiving some payment from EMR.
Do you know how we make initial contact with them?
Many thanks again for your help


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## realinvestor

Phillip1210 said:


> Hi realinvestor
> Thanks for taking the time to reply, she didn't join the legal fund as I think she had just given up hope by then, not sure who the solicitors were, will dig into it. entire life savings were poured into it so paying the additional 23k is a no go but I guess we can explore the possibility of receiving some payment from EMR.
> Do you know how we make initial contact with them?
> Many thanks again for your help


Ok if you are able to post your email address, I shall reply back.


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## Phillip1210

realinvestor said:


> Ok if you are able to post your email address, I shall reply back.


Thanks. Email address removed


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## realinvestor

Some of the ZBR investors might have received a recent communication from Jurgen/IPI painting a positive spin to the story that EMR has given up on the civil case and that this is interpreted as a win by IPI and also that the Dutch embassy will intervene. Please take this communication with a truckload of salt as IPI can just not be trusted. EMR is not responding to my recent query to verify the latest situation but I am in contact with a UK investor who has just visited EMR and says that EMR is in a strong position and it is in their interest to stall the case until IPI is bankrupt, which is very imminent. But also that EMR is still willing to deal with individual investors but on their own terms. IPI is not even physically in Egypt and they have literally no idea of the intricacy of Egyptian law to make their latest statement. What is perhaps of the utmost importance is the wider picture where the Egyptian authorities will soon go after El sery/IPI after the huge fraud in MABR that has been reported by their own former CEO. Some UK investors have already written to the Dutch embassy to intervene in Netherlands and the TDA in Egypt as the amount of missing MABR escrow funds is millions of euros.How can you trust IPI on their latest statement on ZBR when on MABR when they have just not communicated to their investors at all. And let us not forget that they are still liable to ZBR investors in arms of missing escrow funds in Zafarana as well. We know that according to our contractual terms there should be at least a few million euros in the zafarana escrow as well but nobody now seems to care about that mismanagement. With all the serious issues we now know about the mismanagement of both escrows it is not likely at all that either the TDA or the Dutch embassy can support IPI when both these institutions now have so many complaints against IPI.


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## jonmich

Hi All,
Another first timer here. I invested in ZBR with IPI, this is the first forum I have found with any real information on it. I do not belong to the UK legal fund. Does anyone have contact details for them and EMR.
I thank you for any help you can and info you can give me, J&M


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## realinvestor

Someone has managed to contact EMR and I have been told they are very hesitant to reveal what their next move is. But they say that the latest communications from IPI is pure rubbish and they have not abandoned their case. if anything, they are now going through another more accelerated legal move that will squash the chairman's criminal verdict as well as expand on their civil case. There is no one from IPI in Egypt and EMR is now using all the factual evidence from the fraudulent MABR activity to highlight the real criminality by IPI in Egypt. It seems the TDA is now in possession of a lot of hard facts about the grave escrow management of MABR and the real motivations of IPI from the beginning - from the use of family members as escrow managers, false marketing and advertising to attract innocent investors' money to the fraudulent project until the mismanagement in Egypt where El Sery had for a long time not even filed their accounts with the Egyptian authorities. It is no wonder that IPI have abandoned MABR completely as they now they face the risk of being penalised by the Egyptian authorities


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## leeroberts

*Sites are down*

I see that EMR's site is down...http://www.elsery.com/black.html
And that IPI's is down .... http://www.ipi-group.eu


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## leeroberts

*This brings it all back...*

So naive we were!

Zafarana Beach Resort Investors Group: IPI Fully Committed to 5 Star Resort

Soulje are you still as upbeat as ever


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## Joanne Pavitt

Hi

I have just found this site. I am an investor of Marsa Alam Beach Resort through IPI. I would be grateful for any information of groups I could join to find out what has happened to my money.

Thanks.


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## soulje

leeroberts said:


> So naive we were!
> 
> Zafarana Beach Resort Investors Group: IPI Fully Committed to 5 Star Resort
> 
> Soulje are you still as upbeat as ever


Lee, Elserey.com is not EMR's website.


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## soulje

yes Lee, lots of us were so naive. It's so sorry to have to find out that el Serey's website is also out of the air. Wouldn't it have been nice if they would have informed their buyers?


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## realinvestor

there have been some very interesting developments on Zafarana recently. The outcome of the latest court case in Netherlands against IPI by a couple of Zafarana investors has resulted in a very successful outcome for the investors. Contrary to some some spin by both IPI and the legal fund that this is a victory for IPI investors can approach the court and get the verdict via other public sources and the outcome is very clear. IPI has to pay the investors the full capital amount plus all the accrued rent due as well as costs etc . This amounts to over 100,000 euros. Because the contract is with IPI and the investor and not the escrow manager, the court seems to have stated that the escrow manager may not be liable for the final 10% now. But if IPI does not pay this to the investors then another court case could be mounted against both IPI and escrow managers. But investors should be warned what the real truth is and the should be careful of spin from IPI as if they are in the clear.


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## karenbroom77

*re zafarana*

hi, can you contact me or provide contact details as I'm thousands of pounds out of pocket and this was a retirement investment.
Any help would be appreciated.

my personal email

thanks in advance

karen


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## Eco-Mariner

Read through back posts and join the many others on PURE WoW Welbeing group on facebook..... It relates to your situation.

This forum cannot go into details.


Eco-Mariner.


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## karenbroom77

hi do you have a link as only thing i see is a sewing circle page?

karen



Eco-Mariner said:


> Read through back posts and join the many others on PURE WoW Welbeing group on facebook..... It relates to your situation.
> 
> This forum cannot go into details.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


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## hurghadapat

karenbroom77 said:


> hi do you have a link as only thing i see is a sewing circle page?
> 
> karen[/QUOT
> 
> Links to other forums are not allowed...but when you have made three more posts your PM facility will be enabled.


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## karenbroom77

Does this count as 1?


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## hurghadapat

karenbroom77 said:


> Does this count as 1?


Lol....yes


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## leeroberts

Looks like things might be turning in favor of IPI\investors.....

The TDA didn't know all the facts behind EMR's tricks and are starting to get involved at long last....

IPI just need to keep themselves solvent until the end of the year and "Cook et al" getting a grip on reality and holding of until IPI have had a chance to work with EMR's banks against EMR....yes thats right....EMR's banks are into them too....all bodes badly for EMR now...TDA & banks now know what they have been like for the last 4 years.....

EMR has once again stalled the courts in Egypt with new material until May....what could be so new......thats right.....nothing........he is just giving Cook et al time to bankrupt IPI


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## leeroberts

On a separate not - IPI's lawyers have come out and said that people that have bought from EMR for the second time (and I knew when EMR wanted your old useless contracts back to change them.....smelt a rat there).....

But I must admit if IPI fold - there second contract will be valid.


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## jonmich

*spend the day reading*

I like many others have buried my head in the sand over this, I went to all the meetings with IPI and must admit most of what was said went right over my head.
I am going to get up tomorrow morning and starting at page 1, I'm going to read every post :ranger:
I don't do facebook or twitter, is there another way to get contact details for IPI/EMR ?
Wish me luck I'm going in lane:


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## JackieBrian

*Hi All*

I am in the same situation so any up to date information would be very much appreciated. 

I bought a property at Zafarana Beach which they never had the right to sell me in the first place.

A good friend of mine works at a law firm in London and she has got her teeth into the matter too so help is at hand. She has advised me to contact Watchdog and I just wondered if anyone else would be interested. I am sending them my file of papers and hopefully they will investigate the matter. 

Good luck everyone and don't give up!

Best wishes

Jackie


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## karenbroom77

Hi is anyone any further forward on this?

Karen


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## Doratheexplorer

Hi, this is my first post. I am trying to find contact details for EMR. Could anyone help please? Thank you.


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## Doratheexplorer

jonmich said:


> Hi All,
> Another first timer here. I invested in ZBR with IPI, this is the first forum I have found with any real information on it. I do not belong to the UK legal fund. Does anyone have contact details for them and EMR.
> I thank you for any help you can and info you can give me, J&M


Hi, We are trying to find out contact details for EMR. Please could you let me know if you can help?


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## Doratheexplorer

kildare said:


> I am a ZBR investor and would appreciate any infomation and contact details regarding possibly gaing control of my investment.
> thank you


Hi, we bought a 2 bed ground floor apartment at ZBR. We are trying to find contact details for ZBR. Would you be able to help please?


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## Doratheexplorer

Hi, did you manage to find contact details for EMR? If so, please could you let me know. Thanks very much


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## Doratheexplorer

Hi, another question! Has anyone managed to sell their apartment to EMR and actually received payment? We purchased a 2 bedroom garden apartment in Block B I think without checking the paperwork in the guaranteed rental scheme. We've buried our heads in the sand over this but its time to try and sort it out. We recieve the regular emails from C Dominicus and thats about it. Any advice or info greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## karenbroom77

*re zafarana*

hi, we've not got anywhere along with everyone else. any help is welcome

karen


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## leeroberts

HI
How far did you get - was your lawyer friend any help or did you contact Watchdog?

Lee



JackieBrian said:


> I am in the same situation so any up to date information would be very much appreciated.
> 
> I bought a property at Zafarana Beach which they never had the right to sell me in the first place.
> 
> A good friend of mine works at a law firm in London and she has got her teeth into the matter too so help is at hand. She has advised me to contact Watchdog and I just wondered if anyone else would be interested. I am sending them my file of papers and hopefully they will investigate the matter.
> 
> Good luck everyone and don't give up!
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jackie


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## karenbroom77

Hi, I'm interested in this if it's going ahead?

Karen


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## lizzas

*Zafarana*



taflen said:


> Hi Sam,
> We have bought a 2 Bed Penthouse Apartment in Zafarana Beach Resort in 2007 and would be grateful for any information on the current situation as we are not being in formed by IPI
> Sue


Hello Sam, I too have paid for a 2 bed apartment at the Zafarana Beach Resort and even had a rental agreement in place, not to mentioned a penalty pay out for everyday the property was over its deadline for completion. 
Do I have any recourse now and if so, who should I contact. I'd be very much obliged for some advice.


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## lizzas

Doratheexplorer said:


> Hi, another question! Has anyone managed to sell their apartment to EMR and actually received payment? We purchased a 2 bedroom garden apartment in Block B I think without checking the paperwork in the guaranteed rental scheme. We've buried our heads in the sand over this but its time to try and sort it out. We recieve the regular emails from C Dominicus and thats about it. Any advice or info greatly appreciated. Thank you.


Hello, I think my 2 bed flat was in block B too, it had a view of the sea (perhaps it still does). Like you, I've buried my head in the sand but feel it's time to pull it out and come up for some air. Have you managed to get anywhere?

Lizzas


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## lizzas

lizzas said:


> Hello, I think my 2 bed flat was in block B too, it had a view of the sea (perhaps it still does). Like you, I've buried my head in the sand but feel it's time to pull it out and come up for some air. Have you managed to get anywhere?
> 
> Lizzas


I meant to add too that I think the UK lawyers should be held accountable. Surely they were duty bound to make sure that the contracts we signed were sound and as they clearly weren't perhaps we could seek redress through their insurance indemnity?

Lizzas


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## jonmich

*Hi All*

Anyone received this email?

THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE OF MR. A. CLAUS

email message 26-2-2014

Dear Sir, Madam,
By Verdict of the Court Noord-Holland, location Alkmaar, in Holland, the Company I.P.I., with its registered address Herenweg 181, 1934 Egmond aan den Hoef was declared bankrupt on 9th April 2013, and the undersigned has been appointed by the Court as the Custodian.

Through this letter I would like to inform you about several developments since the date of the Bankruptcy of I.P.I., the present situation, and the further proposed actions presented by me to you. 
I would like to ask you to treat this information as confidential.
I look forward to hear from you within the mentioned timeframe.

Kind regards,
Alexander Claus, Custodian

There is an attachment that goes on to explain a plan of action and asks for a contribution to the legal fund!
Look forward to hearing from anyone that has received it and knows any more on the subject.
Cheers Jon.


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## karenbroom77

Not received anything? Can you forward the contact details of this company?

Karen


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## jonmich

Hi Karen,
The company website is ww.tanger.nl I Googled them and had their website come up. My translator is not working today but if yours works you can find the bankruptcy report an English version of the action plan that the message I posted eludes too and all the contact details for Alexander Claus, curator Tanger Advocaten N.V.


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## jonmich

Quick update on how to find and access the info,
I used web translate or similar, type in ww.tanger.nl into the search bar. Once the translated site appears ( if your on the right site you should see a person with there back to you) scroll to the foot of the page, along the bottom you will find "Bankruptcy Defeated" click on it and a list of bankruptcy reports comes up scroll to the foot of the page , click next, go to the third page, IPI are second down on the list, the action plan with all contact details is there, Interestingly, last night when I looked there were 3 documents, one of which was a bankruptcy report, tonight the site says that the bankruptcy claim is defeated ?
Hope this helps.
Jon.


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## karenbroom77

*Ipi*

Hi Jon thanks for that, it does seem that there's been a deadline missed unless I'm reading it wrong?

Karen


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## leeroberts

Hi All
Anybody ever hear any news on Zafarana - its been a year since I heard anything?


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## karenbroom77

Hi, has anyone heard anything from this company? I haven't been able to find any details however I do have Google alerts and one today highlighted properties for sale in Zafarana?

Thanks in advance.

Karen


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## magy2misho

Thanks all for the heads up!


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## leeroberts

Looks like some good news from Zafarana at last....small steps in the right direction.
The courts have placed a custodian in charge of the (European) section of the resort!
I'd say still a few years in this yet - but I feel we are starting to move....


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## Faye123

Hi all. I’m totally new to this but also have property in this development. My mum actually dealt with it all for me but has since passed away. Is there any update on this. Is there anyone I can contact about this. I’ve found all my paperwork and now wondering where to start.


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