# Scottish Vote



## expatantigua (Feb 16, 2014)

Having now retired after over 40 years as a Scottish born Commissioned Officer in the U.K. I have failed to see in any debate what is to be the fate of us Scots living abroad.

Do I keep my U.K. passport?

Will the Cypriot Government allow me to stay here as Scotland (if they vote "YES") will not be in the E.U.?

Will I lose my U.K. pension?
Will I lose my U.K. heating allowance?

My main concern is that it would appear I become "Stateless" according to an official from the BHC.

My other main objection was that I cannot even vote as I do not live there any more - no postal votes for the millions of Scots living outside Scotland.

We will all be no doubt be joining the hordes of stateless refugees in Calais trying to hide in trucks to get "home"!


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

expatantigua said:


> Having now retired after over 40 years as a Scottish born Commissioned Officer in the U.K. I have failed to see in any debate what is to be the fate of us Scots living abroad.
> 
> Do I keep my U.K. passport?
> 
> ...


Presumably Scotland will issue Scottish passports.
Also you would probably get a Scottish pension which will no doubt be more than a UK pension as Scottish people have always had more per head of Westminster money spent on them than their poorer English neighbours.
Heating allowance is being stopped anyway for Brits living abroad.

If Scotland does get independance maybe all of the Sottish MPs who sponge off the English government and make descisions about how England is governed will go back to Scotland.


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

expatantigua said:


> Having now retired after over 40 years as a Scottish born Commissioned Officer in the U.K. I have failed to see in any debate what is to be the fate of us Scots living abroad.
> 
> Do I keep my U.K. passport?
> 
> ...


Sorry expatantigua but I think all Scots living abroad are doomed! Lets face it Alex Salmond won't even let you vote on Thursday, shows how much he considers your view and position important.
Maybe you should have joined the Barmy Army instead of the British Army. 

Wish for a 'No' vote so you can continue to retire in peace.


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

Just a bit of humor from John Oliver explaining to Americans what is going on in Scotland. Enjoy!


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

We recently sat having drinks with some of our Scottish friends and I asked who would be voting. The only person at the table that had a vote happened to be the only other Englishman there!

I recently did some on-line research into the debate. It seems fairly clear that Scotland can succeed independently so there would be no disaster in a Yes vote. However nowhere could I find any worthwhile reason for independence. It comes across as change for politician's sakes. The worst possible reason.

Pete


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> We recently sat having drinks with some of our Scottish friends and I asked who would be voting. The only person at the table that had a vote happened to be the only other Englishman there!
> 
> I recently did some on-line research into the debate. It seems fairly clear that Scotland can succeed independently so there would be no disaster in a Yes vote. However nowhere could I find any worthwhile reason for independence. It comes across as change for politician's sakes. The worst possible reason.
> 
> Pete


Pete,

I don't share your confidence about Scotland being able to succeed independently. The health service and pension promises Alex Salmond has promised have to be paid for, presumable out of direct taxation. Given the ageing population and migration of younger people I think the ensuing tax burden on the remaining population would be rather high.
On the industrial side, Salmond has given reassurances to the shipbuilders on the Clyde that they will still get business from HM Gov., more than likely this would go to Harland & Wolf in Belfast not Scotland. Oil extraction, a subject I do have first hand experience of, is in decline and has been for some time, the UK went gas negative in 2004! Staff at Grangemouth are amongst the most militant in the UK and refuse to adopt productivity improvements making it unattractive for investment. Conoco Philips are already pulling out of a joint venture in the Clair field and some investment houses, not to mention banks have indicated they will relocate. With the supermarkets threatening to pass on any increase in distribution costs to the customer I fear not only for the ongoing Scottish balance of payments but the probable increase in the cost of living. There is a hint of introducing the 50% income tax rate, surly this will only lead to further exedus of professionals, thus reducing further tax revenues required to pay for an increasing cost burden. The Scottish NHS is already in deficit to the tune of c£450m
Im sure there are other arguments but personally I can see no economic reason for a Yes vote. I believe it's purely jingoism and Alex Salmond will have wounded more than just the Scots if he gets his Yes vote.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Rema said:


> Pete,
> 
> I don't share your confidence about Scotland being able to succeed independently. The health service and pension promises Alex Salmond has promised have to be paid for, presumable out of direct taxation. Given the ageing population and migration of younger people I think the ensuing tax burden on the remaining population would be rather high.
> On the industrial side, Salmond has given reassurances to the shipbuilders on the Clyde that they will still get business from HM Gov., more than likely this would go to Harland & Wolf in Belfast not Scotland. Oil extraction, a subject I do have first hand experience of, is in decline and has been for some time, the UK went gas negative in 2004! Staff at Grangemouth are amongst the most militant in the UK and refuse to adopt productivity improvements making it unattractive for investment. Conoco Philips are already pulling out of a joint venture in the Clair field and some investment houses, not to mention banks have indicated they will relocate. With the supermarkets threatening to pass on any increase in distribution costs to the customer I fear not only for the ongoing Scottish balance of payments but the probable increase in the cost of living. There is a hint of introducing the 50% income tax rate, surly this will only lead to further exedus of professionals, thus reducing further tax revenues required to pay for an increasing cost burden. The Scottish NHS is already in deficit to the tune of c£450m
> Im sure there are other arguments but personally I can see no economic reason for a Yes vote. I believe it's purely jingoism and Alex Salmond will have wounded more than just the Scots if he gets his Yes vote.


I bow to your superior knowledge particularly where oil is concerned. However from what I read there would still be substantial oil revenues for many years to come from existing fields 91% of which would end up in Scottish hands if they agree to divide the seas as before. I also wonder if many of the other arguments implying defections of companies are simply hot air. It costs a lot to move a company especially if you lose an effective workforce.

Don't mistake my "confidence" as support. Frankly I don't give a sh*t about their independence. What does make me annoyed is the potential damage Salmond is doing without offering any good positive reasons to become independent. He's conning his electorate.

Pete


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I bow to your superior knowledge particularly where oil is concerned. However from what I read there would still be substantial oil revenues for many years to come from existing fields 91% of which would end up in Scottish hands if they agree to divide the seas as before. I also wonder if many of the other arguments implying defections of companies are simply hot air. It costs a lot to move a company especially if you lose an effective workforce.
> 
> Don't mistake my "confidence" as support. Frankly I don't give a sh*t about their independence. What does make me annoyed is the potential damage Salmond is doing without offering any good positive reasons to become independent. He's conning his electorate.
> 
> Pete


Agreed but the oil revenue can only be claimed by Scotland if it comes ashore in Scotland for example at Cruden bay or Sullem Voe but the majority of the fields are outside the three mile limit and therefore subject to international law. It would not be impossible, if perhaps a little costly, to divert the oil to TyneSide, perhaps Salmond has not noticed this point.
I somehow didn't think you would be a supporter of independence, I too am only an interested bystander.
I really believe Salmond is doing this for his own personal prestige. He is banking on the historic anti English rhetoric. Good luck to them but if they loose I hope they don't all want to move to Cyprus in the aftermath, but if he wins will he commandeer Balmoral for himself?


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

It's not quite on topic but an English friend who returned to Cyprus yesterday from Edinburgh sent the following email recounting an experience at the airport. I thought you might like to read this extract;


On entering the baggage hall I joined the queue (yes ,men have to queue as well) for the gents followed by several of my mature travellers from Edinburgh.

The gentleman behind me in the queue engaged me in conversation ,probably to keep those Pavlovian calls of nature at bay. He enthused about the fact we had escaped the "wretched referendum" .I commented how disappointed I was at the standard of the Salmond/ Darling debates. A rammy ?

When I took my turn to face the wall, the man to my right ,who I had never met before , spat out with venom and aggression the following words at me in a broad scottish accent-" I heard you speak.You are ****ing English.The trouble with Scotland is you ****ing English.Now **** off.I am voting yes.We will get you."

One of my fellow travellers remonstrated with the man ,telling him he was a disgrace to the human race, a disgrace to all Scots and a disgrace to Scotland. My abuser replied by saying that he had a vote and he was voting ****ing yes so **** off !

I have always wondered how the SNP were going to create a fairer and more equitable society.With support like this I think they will have a hard task creating a society.

No-one should have to live in a society where this sort of thing happens at all , let alone on a regular basis.

I wish you luck for the future.You are all going to need it .I am pretty robust but this encounter left me visibly shaken and totally disillusioned.

Be careful what you wish for.Perhaps all will not be well in The Brave(heart ) New World.


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## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

As a Dutch person having lived in the UK for 10 years, and immensely enjoyed my many trips to Scotland, I think first and foremost that Independence for Scotland won't destroy anything or anyone. 

Scotland will do fine, and so will the UK. All the scaremongering on both sides was, and still is, ridiculous, and mostly offensive and insulting of the English and Scottish people in general. 

I am highly amused by the spastic behavior of the current UK "leadership" as they are terrified not of losing Scotland, but of ending up with egg on their face. Imagine Cameron as being the great-great-great grandson of a staid family that has been quietly and very successfully running a huge corporation. Cameron is the current CEO/Chairman. He will forever be the family idiot that broke up the business. His portrait along the stairwell of the family mansion will be turned to face the wall. 

The entertainment value of the #indyref is awesome, and I cannot wait for the results:








I'm rooting for the aye's, I think a yes result will be an absolute hoot.

Martijn :ranger:


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

If the vote is "Yes" it will be on the basis of an inherent contempt for the English and a means to stick 2 fingers up to them.

That to date is the only reason for independence that I am aware of and a very outdated and stupid one.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Pete


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## expatantigua (Feb 16, 2014)

Really sad to her the above story (REMA).

Scotland has as many "bampots" as everywhere else in the U.K.
It is, sadly, the age of the common man where good manners and respect seem to be in the distant past.

Pity that Salmon does not introduce an IQ test to qualify for Scottish citizenship.
Those that fail could be sent to a remote desolate island (the one with Anthrax?) to be re-educated back into society.


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## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

expatantigua said:


> Those that fail could be sent to a remote desolate island (the one with Anthrax?) to be re-educated back into society.


... That escalated quickly...


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Well it seems the Scots know which side of thei bread is buttered and have decided to stay and keep milking Westminster to the detriment of the English .


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Veronica said:


> Well it seems the Scots know which side of thei bread is buttered and have decided to stay and keep milking Westminster to the detriment of the English .


Can I detect a wee drop of prejudice there?

You can add to this the fact that life expectancy in Scotland is lower than in England. This means that by them staying in the UK you are going to die sooner. B*stards!

On top of this they have the gall to contribute over £8.5 billion worth of revenue with exports of gas and oil while their food and drinks sector contributes £5.4 billion. The swine!

Now all politicians can sit down and mull over a glass of Scotch on how to get that kind of turnout in a local or general election while Salmond can kick himself for concentrating on how instead of why. Although I suppose that apart from his own ego he couldn't have answered why!!!

Pete


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> Can I detect a wee drop of prejudice there?
> 
> You can add to this the fact that life expectancy in Scotland is lower than in England. This means that by them staying in the UK you are going to die sooner. B*stards!
> 
> ...


So, we can now say with some form of certainty that 55% of Scots are not so stupid after all.


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## Davetheeagle (Jun 5, 2014)

Fell sorry for all those Polish bricklayers that were first in the queue to rebuild Hadrians wall! :-(


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## H&S (Jun 12, 2013)

Veronica said:


> Well it seems the Scots know which side of thei bread is buttered and have decided to stay and keep milking Westminster to the detriment of the English .


Veronica, with this comment (and previous ones) you seem to have no understanding of the Scottish psyche or the common recent discussions regarding the referendum. 

There are a lot of Scots in Cyprus, do you want to wind us all up?

I would expect a more moderate viewpoint from a moderator of an open forum.


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## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

H&S said:


> I would expect a more moderate viewpoint from a moderator of an open forum.


Moderating a forum doesn't mean you are no longer entitled to an opinion! 

Martijn :ranger:


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

H&S said:


> Veronica, with this comment (and previous ones) you seem to have no understanding of the Scottish psyche or the common recent discussions regarding the referendum.
> 
> There are a lot of Scots in Cyprus, do you want to wind us all up?
> 
> I would expect a more moderate viewpoint from a moderator of an open forum.


Actually I have plenty of good Scottish friends and am not at all prejudiced. My only gripe is the inequality with people north of the border getting so many more benefits than those who live in England. 
Also Scottish mps vote on matters which are relevant only to England but English mps can,t vote in the Sottish parliament.
I am all for a truly United Kingdom if all things were more equal


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

H&S said:


> Veronica, with this comment (and previous ones) you seem to have no understanding of the Scottish psyche or the common recent discussions regarding the referendum.
> 
> There are a lot of Scots in Cyprus, do you want to wind us all up?
> 
> I would expect a more moderate viewpoint from a moderator of an open forum.


Take care you can get banned. you just broke a rule:boxing:



"Reason: Rule Violation
-------
Questioning moderation on the forum is against the forum rules"


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

H&S said:


> Veronica, with this comment (and previous ones) you seem to have no understanding of the Scottish psyche or the common recent discussions regarding the referendum.
> 
> There are a lot of Scots in Cyprus, do you want to wind us all up?
> 
> I would expect a more moderate viewpoint from a moderator of an open forum.


H&S That you no longer reside in Scotland might indicate you have given up on the place. I wonder if that would make you a 'No' voter but your response to Veronica would indicate you have a strong nationalistic pride, would that then make you a 'Yes' voter? In which case I can see why you, along with Alex Salmond, would not want to have aired any of the facts about how England supports Scotland.

To be honest I have had enough of the unfortunate Scottish habit of cursing anybody and anything English, not from you I might add, but please see my earlier post. So you see I really have no qualms about Scottish sensitivities, Scots can seemingly dish it out but don't like it back.

And before I'm called an English *******, know that I too have Scottish blood running through my veins.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> Take care you can get banned. you just broke a rule:boxing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They didn't question moderation, therefore haven't broken any rules


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Veronica said:


> They didn't question moderation, therefore haven't broken any rules


So question the moderator is not the same thing? :confused2:


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> So question the moderator is not the same thing? :confused2:


No, only questioning moderation.
How can we have interesting debates if anyone who disagreed with a moderator in debate got banned


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Veronica said:


> How can we have interesting debates if anyone who disagreed with a moderator in debate got banned


Many people on the other Forum which shall not be named would no doubt be asking this question if they had not been banned!


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## H&S (Jun 12, 2013)

Still don't think 'let's keep on milking the English' was a factor in most Scottish minds in voting No. Yes there are more benefits available for people living in Scotland but I think many would agree they are unsustainable without tax increases, which will undoubtably happen.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

I think the decision was the right one, and so do the markets - sterling was up at one point today to €1.29.

For me, the debate has rightly highlighted issues which remain unresolved

Why were 16 year olds enfranchised for the referendum when they cannot yet vote for MPs, MEPs or MSPs?

Why could Scots living abroad (including the rest of the UK) not have a vote about the future of their country?

Why could immigrants (including English!) living or owning property in Scotland vote on the future of a nation they are not members of?

To put the referendum into perspective, there are 5 million people living in Scotland who were/are able to decide on their future, and with devolved power this will include taxes, welfare and other major regional issues. There are 2.5 million people living in Manchester who are not able to decide such things, whilst as Veronica has pointed out Scottish, Welsh and NI MPs will have this power. Makes you think...!


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## Andrea59 (May 1, 2014)

Having spent the last 2 weeks in Scotland I can't wait to get back to Cyprus. Everywhere you went you had the yes campaigners in your face trying to persuade you to vote yes, although on asking any questions they were unable to answer and a handbook was pushed at you. 
Houses and cars were covered in yes posters, stickers and placards, we even saw a dog covered in yes stickers. 
On an evening out with friends I mentioned that I hadn't seen any no posters, I was then very shocked to hear that some houses who displayed no posters had graffiti (and worse) scrawled on their doors, therefore the no posters had been removed. 
I am English and have lived in Scotland for many years due to my husband being posted here with the RAF. Over the years I have suffered a great deal of verbal abuse from the 'locals' and so have many of my friends. Being English and with the armed forces made us an easy target.
People living in Scotland have been fortunate in that they have free prescriptions and university fees.
We will have to see what happens next - Mr Salmond has already resigned - what a surpise!! :juggle:


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## expatantigua (Feb 16, 2014)

Well it is all over after many years of debate and after serving the 'cause' for over 20 years, Mr A. Salmond had fallen on his sword in a most dignified manner.

Now we will await the next series of debates arising from Mr Cameron's promises.
City devolution? 

Boris for president of the U.K. Federation?

Welsh/Irish/English parliaments?

All in all it looks like more and more politicians are going to be created costing us all as much as the E.U.

As George Bernard Shaw wisely said a few years back: "_Anyone who wants to be a politician should be banned for life_".

An intelligent man!


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## expatantigua (Feb 16, 2014)

*Scottish blood*



Rema said:


> And before I'm called an English *******, know that I too have Scottish blood running through my veins.


It is a widely held fact that as the garden of Eden was located 8 miles East of Inverness, the whole world has some Scottish links!


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## wizard4 (Feb 3, 2013)

Well folks the argument is academic now the answer was no to independence, as a scot its been many years since I lived there but I suppose this was always simmering in the pot with regard to independence. However there is a bigger issue brewing, and that is the proposed referendum on whether the UK stays in the EU.The implications of pulling out surely will affect every expat living in the EU, if I understand it correctly, if the UK is not in the EU, then the state pension is no longer valid to anyone outside of the EU, I may be wrong about that, but if im right then the implications make the Scottish referendum pale into insignificance.
Cheers


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

wizard4 said:


> ?..if I understand it correctly, if the UK is not in the EU, then the state pension is no longer valid to anyone outside of the EU, I may be wrong about that, but if im right then the implications make the Scottish referendum pale into insignificance.
> Cheers


The UK state pension will still be payable, but if you live outside the EU, you do not receive the annual increase unless the UK has an agreement with the country of residence.

If you return to the UK, it is restored in full again.


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