# retrospective planning permission



## Sarah Shadbolt (Jun 22, 2014)

Good Morning, we have been in the process of buying a property in the Murcia region. The property has had a pool and workshop/storage shed added which is not on the papers. Our solicitor has been trying to get this sorted prior to us buying but the stumbling block is the first part of the process is to ask the Community and while the property is on a small urbanisation they do not have a community. I don't understand that when the owners are now trying to legalise the pool/workshop they are not able to due to the process. Has anyone had any experience of this or have a suggestions or advice to offer. We really like the propery but feel unable to proceed due to this. Any help greatly appreciated.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

1) The community is not constituted? Red flag. 
2) No building permission? Red flag. 

Given all the bologna that has happened down south, I'd run away.


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## Sarah Shadbolt (Jun 22, 2014)

Thanks for your reply.
As we understand it there is no community.
The house is legal does have original planning etc but the small pool and storage room has been added after registration.
Spain is quite rightly introducing new laws to ensure this doesn't happen and that they are paid full taxes for properties etc. But the process is flawed if you are trying to legalise and do the right thing. In England notices are placed to ensure local residents etc have the opportunity to object if you wish to build etc. It is really only this step which is missing. The pool has been there 8 years and no one has objected. But yes I do take your point thankyou


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Sarah Shadbolt said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> As we understand it there is no community.
> The house is legal does have original planning etc but the small pool and storage room has been added after registration.
> Spain is quite rightly introducing new laws to ensure this doesn't happen and that they are paid full taxes for properties etc. But the process is flawed if you are trying to legalise and do the right thing. In England notices are placed to ensure local residents etc have the opportunity to object if you wish to build etc. It is really only this step which is missing. The pool has been there 8 years and no one has objected. But yes I do take your point thankyou



I am very surprised that the community is not constituted. That's the first thing we did in our urb. when more than two people moved in. Are there lights? How are they paid for? Is there a community antenna? How's it paid for? What about the road/s in the community? Are they town-maintained or is the community responsible? Who takes care of coordinating the maintenance for the community? 

You wouldn't have to "legalize and do the right thing" if you did it correctly in the first place. The pool may have been there for eight years, but that doesn't fix the fact that it was illegally installed. If the town hall wants to, they can tell you to take down the shed and fill in the pool. 

Make whatever decision you want. However, it would be a huge red flag to hear the property owners/real estate agent admitting that these things have been done. I'd be wondering what else there is that you haven't been told.


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## Sarah Shadbolt (Jun 22, 2014)

Totally agree the owners should have done this in the first place. We had been told these things are dealt with via Murcia. There is no community charge. Certainly street lights are on and skips/bins are collected as we have seen this when visiting. But all useful information to be reviewed many thanks.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sarah Shadbolt said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> As we understand it there is no community.
> The house is legal does have original planning etc but the small pool and storage room has been added after registration.
> Spain is quite rightly introducing new laws to ensure this doesn't happen and that they are paid full taxes for properties etc. But the process is flawed if you are trying to legalise and do the right thing. In England notices are placed to ensure local residents etc have the opportunity to object if you wish to build etc. It is really only this step which is missing. The pool has been there 8 years and no one has objected. But yes I do take your point thankyou


they aren't new laws though - the rules for planning permission were in place LONG before this shed & pool were built - & the system isn't dissimilar to that in the UK


what would happen in the UK if someone built an extension on their house without planning permission? Maybe no-one complained or objected at the time, but when it came to be sold there would more than likely be problems - or if a neighbouring property was sold, the new owners discovered that there was no permission for the extension - they could demand that it be removed

it really isn't so very different here - & even if the 'community' issue was resolved, there's no guarantee that retrospective permission would be granted


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Who is in charge of legalizing the pool and shed: the buyers or the sellers? It will be a relatively expensive process, especially if you have to get a _proyecto_ from an architect. 

The only reason I am so insistent about this is that I have been through a similar process. It's a right nightmare.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

The fact that the pool etc isn't on the escritura doesn't 't mean they are illegal, just that the owner hasn't had them added to the deeds. It doesn't seem to be a problem when selling. I bet many a house has been sold that has added a flat to the under build , or a glazed in terrace which had planning permission, but has not been added to the escritura.
If the buyer feels this is a stumbling block, ask for the required sum to register these additions to be deposited at time of sale.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> The fact that the pool etc isn't on the escritura doesn't 't mean they are illegal, just that the owner hasn't had them added to the deeds. It doesn't seem to be a problem when selling. I bet many a house has been sold that has added a flat to the under build , or a glazed in terrace which had planning permission, but has not been added to the escritura.
> If the buyer feels this is a stumbling block, ask for the required sum to register these additions to be deposited at time of sale.


from what I understand though, the issue is that there is a problem getting them added to the escritura.... & from what the OP says there isn't planning permission


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

extranjero said:


> The fact that the pool etc isn't on the escritura doesn't 't mean they are illegal, just that the owner hasn't had them added to the deeds. It doesn't seem to be a problem when selling. I bet many a house has been sold that has added a flat to the under build , or a glazed in terrace which had planning permission, but has not been added to the escritura.
> If the buyer feels this is a stumbling block, ask for the required sum to register these additions to be deposited at time of sale.


Extranjero's interpretation of the post brings up a good point: 

Are the pool and shed: 
1. Not on the escritura
or 
2. Without permission from the town hall ?


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## Sarah Shadbolt (Jun 22, 2014)

Not on the escritura as we understand it the owners didn't apply for permission as unfortuanatley seemed to be the norm back then.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Sarah Shadbolt said:


> Not on the escritura as we understand it the owners didn't apply for permission as unfortuanatley seemed to be the norm back then.


So, who's going to pay for and wait out the permissions process? It will take a while.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> So, who's going to pay for and wait out the permissions process? It will take a while.


well if I was buying, I'd insist that all permissions etc were in place before I signed anything - & that it was all at the vendor's expense


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> well if I was buying, I'd insist that all permissions etc were in place before I signed anything - & that it was all at the vendor's expense


This is what we are doing now, although if the seller is unresponsive then it may knock the sale on the head. 
The house has the pool and bbq declared on the catastral but once we got the nota simple they aren't mentioned on there. So the lawyer has drawn up the correct papers and made a proposal to the seller that 'he must' rectify this before any contract is signed.
Seems odd, why register one and not the other.

Now I don't know if this is a regional thing but according to the lawyer if the pool is over 4 years old and a surveyor can vouch for that then the process to add it to the nota simple is straightforward.
As for the other things well I don't care too much, if they either can't be legalised, the seller can't afford to or whatever I'm not fussed if they go.

We'll see what happens anyway.


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## Sarah Shadbolt (Jun 22, 2014)

Problem is, the process is to get approval from the community group lawyers etc, then apply to the town hall, pay the fee's etc. HOWEVER, there is NO community group, so chicken and egg scenario


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

extranjero said:


> The fact that the pool etc isn't on the escritura doesn't 't mean they are illegal, just that the owner hasn't had them added to the deeds. It doesn't seem to be a problem when selling. I bet many a house has been sold that has added a flat to the under build , or a glazed in terrace which had planning permission, but has not been added to the escritura.
> If the buyer feels this is a stumbling block, ask for the required sum to register these additions to be deposited at time of sale.


Please do NOT do this! From experience of helping others, this rarely works;

Because the town hall won't grant a retrospective licence - what do you do then?
Not enough money is with-held - it can often cost a LOT more than expected especially with cadastral (IBI) fines etc.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Please do NOT do this! From experience of helping others, this rarely works;
> 
> Because the town hall won't grant a retrospective licence - what do you do then?
> Not enough money is with-held - it can often cost a LOT more than expected especially with cadastral (IBI) fines etc.


Wise, wise advice. 
We were set back nearly a year because of town hall funny business.


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