# Two or maybe three years in Spain



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

My OH & I are thinking of spending the next two or three years in Spain, while we are of an age to still afford it & young enough to enjoy it.

We have kids that will be at Uni for the next three/four years so an ideal time to be away, as their accommodation etc is sorted & hopefully we could rent somewhere that they could stay with us for a week or two over xmas/summer/spring break/ should they wish to (probably have too many new friends !)

Is this a practical proposition? We have no interest in severing connections with the UK & have property we could rent out for maybe 2K a month, plus OH took redundancy/early retirement at 52 & has a pension which is a monthy constant to top up rental income . I've been working non stop for 35 years and feel it's time to move over and give the young uns a chance, so will have been paying NI contributions up until we go. 

We are well under the new UK state pension ages, so assume no entitlement to any health care in Spain? We both get a few repeat prescriptions every 8 weeks here which we pay the standard £7.60 per item for. 

Is this easy to organise in Spain. Boring stuff that some over 50ties need like blood pressure tablets, HRT etc. I guess we need private health care, so a company recommendation would be good. We used to have BUPA here but never used it so discontinued it. I assume there are similar Spanish companys, but how do they view pre-existing condition that are medicated ?

OH still does some work on a consutancy basis for his old company, most of which is done via laptop/telephone conferences, would that be practical. It is done on a self employed basis here & he just pays an accountant £800 a year to sort out tax as we have been on PAYE all our lives so dont understand what is involved. 

Are internet connections and communications in general good, reliable & affordable, that sort of thing seems to run well and cheaply here but heard it can be different elsewhere ? We have had problems when abroad and he has had to access emails etc in a hurry including Spain, but it may be different in a home to when in hotels.

Many, many apologies for being long winded there seems to be much to consider, is it best to do long or short term rental, healthcare, what our status would be? We dont want to do anything illegal as that has never been our way here so certainly wouldn't want to do anything wrong in another country.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi Tilley. :welcome:
It seems you and your husband are in a good position to move to Spain.

If you can show details of your income, which seems ok, then there should be no problem being a resident here.

Two ways you can go about health care (and you will now have to provide evidence of this before you can get your residents certificates or cards).

As you have been paying NI contributions up to the present time, I see no problem with you obtaining an S1 to cover you for state health care (although for how long will vary according to contributions made).
In your particular case, it would be a good idea to contact Newcastle before you move here, to get the S1's in motion as they appear to take some time organising these.
Of course, the most you are likely to get an S1 for is around two years. But as the rules on this appear to change according to claimant, it could be more...or less.

If, however, you choose to go the private health care route, then you will need to sort out where you are moving to first.
Members on here can give you advice about the company they use, but it will very much depend on whether they have doctors and health centres you can visit easily in your particular area.

As to pre-existing conditions...
Yes, this can be a problem, but very much depends on the condition as to whether you will get cover and how much that cover will cost you.
The best way would be to contact the insurers and ask them for a plan specific to suit you and your husband.

As to repeat prescriptions, you will need to be signed on with a doctor, who will examine you and determine suitable medication.
But don't worry too much about this. Apart from generic names for medication being different in some cases, you are likely to get the same medication you received in the UK, or a very close equivalent.

However, as a stop gap, until you get signed up with a doctor, I am sure that your UK doctor can write you prescriptions to cover your first few weeks of medications.
The farmacia is usually quite happy to fulfill these prescriptions. This may mean going back the next day to collect it (as farmacias do not necessarily have all meds on the premises and order in from one of their suppliers) and it may be a slight compromise, as the available medication may be slightly different, but it's usually fine.


Internet...
Again, that will depend very much on the area (or even the street!) you choose to live in.

Something interesting I noticed recently on another forum was that the person actually looked at internet coverage before they chose the area they would live in. And for her it made sense, as her work was all online.

But (from experience) I would say that larger cities usually have decent coverage, whilst rural areas (and often coastal areas too) may have difficulty.
I can give you an example from the Granada region -
The city itself is reasonably covered, with average download speeds of 6mbps and 3G coverage for mobile internet.
There were discussions about going fibre optic, but everything is now on hold because of the recession.

However, we live in a village and have rural ADSL. Speeds are supposed to be 6mbps down, but are actually _up to_ 3mbps down and 250k up _on a very good day_ and vary considerably according to time of day and the weather!
Many rural areas have to rely on Satellite, WIMAX or usb dongles for mobile coverage (and mobile coverage is often EDGE or 2G at best).

Your husband's consultancy work...
As you intend to live in Spain for more than 6 months, your husband would need to become a fiscal resident and declare his Worldwide earnings.
He would need to speak to an accountant who understands Spanish and UK taxes, to see how best to handle this. There may be a case of his financial interests being in the UK, but this is hard to prove without reliable assistance and it is more liley that he would have to sign up as autonomo and pay monthly deductions as well as tax. So he would really need to find out if this is feasible.
The good thing about this, however, is that where he to go ahead and set up as autonomo, he and you would then be covered for state health care.

Hope that helps!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Good move! As long as you aren't looking for work, Spain is still a great place to work.

As you have paid-up NI contributions in the UK you will get free state healthcare for up to 2.5 years. You need to get an S1 form from the Dept of Work and Pensions. Check out the NHS website:
Living abroad

When that runs out and you need to go private, Sanitas is the equivalent to BUPA.

Internet access is fine, unless you live out in the sticks or behind a mountain! Just make sure you rent a place with an existing telephone line.

Most rental contracts are for 11 months, after which you have strong tenants' rights which landlords don't like. Shorter terms will work out more expensive especially in holiday areas as they charge more for summer lets.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you for such a comprehensive reply and yes it helps very much.

I was worried I had asked too much of people. We have been to Spain too many times to recount & various areas. I know we will need to settle on one at some point and need to do some serious thinking on that aspect alone. 

My Mum, God rest her, had a place in Spain for 6 years in the seventies and I lived (not sure if that is the right word, long holiday might be better) there for 6 months after I finished my A levels, but that was then and we are now many years down the line, so no meaningful comparisons to be had there.

I have a bit of a now or never thing going on. When kids are out of Uni & starting on young adult life we will want to be back here to give them any physical/time & maybe financial support they need, as family is important to us. 

I have just seen your post alcalania so thank you as well. I note what you say about the 11 month criteria for rental. Ideally we would like to feel 'settled' in whereever we choose, but if we have to rent in two different properties over the duration it is not an insurmountable problems. I need to think how this would work out in relation to renting our home in the UK, am not sure it would make any differnce as would use a letting agent in the UK.

I'm sure my GP would give us 6 months worth of scripts if I asked to tide us over, but seem to remember that you can buy a lot of meds in spain that you need a script for here so possibly not an issue anyway. Think I bought some hrt there last time over the counter as it was cheaper than here and not soi highly regulated, the same ingrediants but a different brand name.

My OH may need to look into the matter of continuing his part time consutancy business to see if it is financially viable.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Tilley said:


> Thank you for such a comprehensive reply and yes it helps very much.
> 
> I was worried I had asked too much of people. We have been to Spain too many times to recount & various areas. I know we will need to settle on one at some point and need to do some serious thinking on that aspect alone.
> 
> ...


I think that _for you and your OH_ now will be a great time to move to Spain for a while.
And its good to be able to give some positive advice nowadays.



Tilley said:


> I'm sure my GP would give us 6 months worth of scripts if I asked to tide us over, but seem to remember that you can buy a lot of meds in spain that you need a script for here so possibly not an issue anyway. Think I bought some hrt there last time over the counter as it was cheaper than here and not soi highly regulated, the same ingrediants but a different brand name.


One thing about this...
I _think_ that there may be more stringent rules applied now than in the past.
One year ago, I could walk into my local farmacia with a packet of UK-prescribed HRT and she would give me the Spanish equivalent, no questions asked.
Now she only gives these out on prescription.

The other day I had a tooth infection but my dentist was closed so I could not get a prescription for antibiotics.
At first, the farmacia said sorry but she could not give me antibiotics without prescription, and it was only because it was a Friday night, with the dentist not open again until Monday evening, and because she had given me these antibiotics in the past, that she finally relented.
However, she still insisted I get a prescription for these as soon as the dentist was open. Which I did.
So it's not as easy as it once was. At least where we live...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Good move! As long as you aren't looking for work, Spain is still a great place to work.
> 
> As you have paid-up NI contributions in the UK you will get free state healthcare for up to 2.5 years. You need to get an S1 form from the Dept of Work and Pensions. Check out the NHS website:
> Living abroad
> ...


yes, that's what the agents will tell you.............

in actual fact, if the property is your only or main residence here & you are officially 'resident' you have tenants rights under the LAU from day one.......... regardless of the terms of the contract


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I cannot foresee any problems with your move to Spain. Like you, we took early retirement when we decided we'd had enough of the rat race. We sold up all our properties,business and rental and our UK home. We rent a large house with pool and large gardens on the edge of a quiet Spanish village on the coast...after three years in Prague. We too have an eleven-month rental contract but we're now in our fourth year in this house and as we are on excellent terms with our landlord renewing it is a formality. I'm hoping my dil and son, who own property near us, will buy the house from him.
One piece of advice that may be useful...look at properties outside the price range you feel comfortable with and negotiate...you may be pleasantly surprised at the reduction you may be given. We now pay 800 euros a month less rent than when we first signed our contract.
Relocating from Prague to Spain was the best move we ever made.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Internet access is fine, unless you live out in the sticks or behind a mountain! Just make sure you rent a place with an existing telephone line.
> 
> .


Hey you!!

I live out in the sticks, our internet connection is fantastic and eventually will be free!

And we have electricity, tarmacked roads, buses and flush toilets


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that's what the agents will tell you.............
> 
> in actual fact, if the property is your only or main residence here & you are officially 'resident' you have tenants rights under the LAU from day one.......... regardless of the terms of the contract




.... and to add more weight to that; 11 month contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on.


Do it properly and get a legal contract - this will state 12 months (or more) and that it is renewable. It must also be in Spanish and, optionally, English (but don't trust the translation).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> .... and to add more weight to that; 11 month contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on.
> 
> 
> Do it properly and get a legal contract - this will state 12 months (or more) and that it is renewable. It must also be in Spanish and, optionally, English (but don't trust the translation).


I could almost have written that myself 

so now that's a tenant & a landlord agreeing


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks again for the new input, on prescriptions which I can see wont be a big issue, but more interestingly on the 11 month rental issue as I think ideally we would like to stay in the same property for the duration if practical. I intend to spend tomorrow doing some internet searches on what is available to rent in various places.

I am now going to ask what my OH would term a saddo question but will I be able to access some form of quality UK TV, such things as Dramas etc, Lewis, Silk, Vera, maybe things like wimbledon, grand prix etc (feel embarassed asking this but feel I need to know) as while hoping to embrace a more outdoor lifestyle for a couple of years, as in the UK most people live their lives in their homes, it would be good to have a little familiarity. I'm assuming there are Spanish versions of things to sky plus etc home entertainment systems. I cant see how we would get an instant network of friends so home things might be important first off.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that's what the agents will tell you.............
> 
> in actual fact, if the property is your only or main residence here & you are officially 'resident' you have tenants rights under the LAU from day one.......... regardless of the terms of the contract


xabia, could you tell me what the LAU is or give me a link to smth. 
I know I know, I should just Google it, but I just wondered if you knew of a good link...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> I am now going to ask what my OH would term a saddo question but will I be able to access some form of quality UK TV, such things as Dramas etc, Lewis, Silk, Vera, maybe things like wimbledon, grand prix etc (feel embarassed asking this but feel I need to know) as while hoping to embrace a more outdoor lifestyle for a couple of years, as in the UK most people live their lives in their homes, it would be good to have a little familiarity. I'm assuming there are Spanish versions of things to sky plus etc home entertainment systems. I cant see how we would get an instant network of friends so home things might be important first off.


Hahaha!

I think that has been officially recognized as top saddo question!!

Welcome to the forum anyway


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> xabia, could you tell me what the LAU is or give me a link to smth.
> I know I know, I should just Google it, but I just wondered if you knew of a good link...


Ley de Arrendamientos Urbanos


would you believe there's a link in the 'renting in spain' post on the 'forms.....etc..........etc.... sticky'


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Ley de Arrendamientos Urbanos
> 
> 
> would you believe there's a link in the 'renting in spain' post on the 'forms.....etc..........etc.... sticky'


Yes, I would
Thanks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tilley said:


> Thanks again for the new input, on prescriptions which I can see wont be a big issue, but more interestingly on the 11 month rental issue as I think ideally we would like to stay in the same property for the duration if practical. I intend to spend tomorrow doing some internet searches on what is available to rent in various places.
> 
> I am now going to ask what my OH would term a saddo question but will I be able to access some form of quality UK TV, such things as Dramas etc, Lewis, Silk, Vera, maybe things like wimbledon, grand prix etc (feel embarassed asking this but feel I need to know) as while hoping to embrace a more outdoor lifestyle for a couple of years, as in the UK most people live their lives in their homes, it would be good to have a little familiarity. I'm assuming there are Spanish versions of things to sky plus etc home entertainment systems. I cant see how we would get an instant network of friends so home things might be important first off.


while it's still legal........Download music, movies, games, software! The Pirate Bay - The galaxy's most resilient BitTorrent site is great for downloading the odd UK or US thing you can't see otherwise, unless you want to fork out for a dish


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

I can take being a saddo at my age, whist enjoiying my brit dramas, my backs broad 

Will be quite happy to pay for a dish assuming they are a reasonable price, as said earlier not interested in doing anything illegal. Have to pay for one here anyway even though it is only allowed on the back of the house due to consevation or something & has to raised up high as have a forest at the end of the road. Oh the pirate bay is legal, if so that may be a possibility, goodo. OH is only bothered about football so not an issue for him as that appears to be everywhere in the world.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Tilley said:


> Thanks again for the new input, on prescriptions which I can see wont be a big issue, but more interestingly on the 11 month rental issue as I think ideally we would like to stay in the same property for the duration if practical. I intend to spend tomorrow doing some internet searches on what is available to rent in various places.
> 
> I am now going to ask what my OH would term a saddo question but will I be able to access some form of quality UK TV, such things as Dramas etc, Lewis, Silk, Vera, maybe things like wimbledon, grand prix etc (feel embarassed asking this but feel I need to know) as while hoping to embrace a more outdoor lifestyle for a couple of years, as in the UK most people live their lives in their homes, it would be good to have a little familiarity. I'm assuming there are Spanish versions of things to sky plus etc home entertainment systems. I cant see how we would get an instant network of friends so home things might be important first off.


If there is already a dish, or you put one up, then, I think, you can use a UK Freesat box, save a bit of money on Sky subscription if you don't need to-ooo big a variety of UK progs!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Tilley said:


> I am now going to ask what my OH would term a saddo question but will I be able to access some form of quality UK TV, such things as Dramas etc, Lewis, Silk, Vera, maybe things like wimbledon, grand prix etc (feel embarassed asking this but feel I need to know) as while hoping to embrace a more outdoor lifestyle for a couple of years, as in the UK most people live their lives in their homes, it would be good to have a little familiarity. I'm assuming there are Spanish versions of things to sky plus etc home entertainment systems. I cant see how we would get an instant network of friends so home things might be important first off.


At the moment, with quite a small satellite dish and a Sky or Freesat box, you can view most UK channels in most parts of Spain, but that is likely to change come the end of this Summer, when British TV channels are moved to a new satellite.

After this time, it will very much depend on the area you choose to live in, what size dish you will need to get a decent reception.
There are some genuine Sky and Freesat installers on most expat forums, but also a load of fly by night agents, and who can help you will vary by area. So do ask for plenty of advice and check everyone out diligently when or if that need arises. 

One thing you will need to do with Sky is to keep a UK contact number, so having a UK mobile phone to hand if ever you need to call them is helpful.
Also, hang on to your Sky box and viewing card, make sure both are working correctly before you move here.
If things go wrong, you can usually Google for an answer, but ringing Sky is only recommended if from a UK number....


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

You can afford to move to Spain, you have little ties in the UK, you dont need to work - then Spain is your oyster.

You want to go to Spain for around three years. You are thinking of rental contracts. It is a Renters Market in Spain. If I were in your shoes I would spend several months in different locations and would not get bogged down in contracts that were barely acceptable even in the good economy times.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks again for the info regarding TV/dish and the warning to be cautious with installers.

Its certainly and idea to move around Leper, i'm not ruling anything out at this stage as i am just on an inforamtion gathering excercise and want to keep and open mind on things. Whilst no ties as such, for example we would want to be within an hours drive of an airport with decent connetions, so lots of things to think about.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I could almost have written that myself
> 
> so now that's a tenant & a landlord agreeing


Sensible landlords and amenable tenants usually do agree - after all, it's in their mutual interests.

I'm not sure Alca is right when she says landlords don't like those long-term contracts. When I was a landlord I valued continuity and stability and wanted tenants who were into long-term renting.

Both sides have rights and need protection from possible 'bad behaviour' from the other.

This morning I've heard another horror story of a tenant from hell...a British woman with a drink problem and her daughter who makes a habit of renting properties, not paying any rent or utility bills and creating mayhem for all around her.

No way would I rent a property in Spain unless it was to extremely elderly people, nuns or monks (not together) or people I'd had checked out by MI 5. Many people who rent properties are not hard-faced property speculators but people for whom their rented property represents their savings for retirement.

When I lived in London and was politically active I experienced at first hand appalling cases of rapacious landlords who exploited and often terrorised their tenants.
Here in Spain it seems, to some extent, to be the other way round.

Now before the more sensitive leap on that comment: I'm a tenant and know that the majority of renters cause absolutely no problem. But there is a very large minority who do.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tilley said:


> I can take being a saddo at my age, whist enjoiying my brit dramas, my backs broad
> 
> Will be quite happy to pay for a dish assuming they are a reasonable price, as said earlier not interested in doing anything illegal. Have to pay for one here anyway even though it is only allowed on the back of the house due to consevation or something & has to raised up high as have a forest at the end of the road. Oh the pirate bay is legal, if so that may be a possibility, goodo. OH is only bothered about football so not an issue for him as that appears to be everywhere in the world.




If you have Sky already, bring the set-up -box, dish, with you.

It is not 'illegal' in the sense that you can be prosecuted or locked up for receiving Sky outside the UK or ROI - were that the case, Spanish jails would be full to overcrowding.
Your Sky contract states you must have a UK landline for a period of one year. Sky knows that probably millions of Brits watch Sky outside the UK and ROI - 
we used our Sky in Prague alongside Czech tv as did every British person we knew - and in the CR as in Spain, France, Itlay there are companies that instal Sky for immigrants.
Sky would lose £millions in revenue if they clamped down.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Well hopefully we would be in the large majority that do not cause any problems, but am worried that we do not fall into the extremely elderly category that seems to be your tenant of choice, so wont be looking to yourself to house us lol

Presumably there are many properties/landloards who are deperate to rent out without fulfilling your stringent criteria.

You will get landords from hell and tenants from hell all over the world not just Spain and the UK, however also like everywhere they should be in the minority.

We have people renting a 4 bed semi opposite us for 2 years and unless they hadn't mentioned they were renting we would have assumed they were owner occupiers, also they haven't mentioned having a rapacious landlord !

Many thanks for the further info on the sky box and bringing it with, need to also decide on if we should leave it for any that rent our house, ive never been a landlord and have no idea what the protocols are for it in the UK, but I have got to start speaking to a manageing agent as dont want to handle all this myself even though I assume they will want 10%.

We have friends who something similar but for 4 years to Greece some years back and I am going to ask them who they used to manage the renting out of their property, as I like personal recommendations if possible, although of course staff and management change over the years and its 5 years since they are back.

Thanks again.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Well had a mooch round the forum today as am off in a few weeks for a look around in the Alicante and Valencia areas, although the place my family had years ago was on the costa tropical - dont remember it having an exotic name like that in the seventies. Still seems a lot of negativity about but I guess that is more aimed at those that need to find work out there and move families across. Thought I would put on an update for the folk that offered help.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Tilley said:


> Well had a mooch round the forum today as am off in a few weeks for a look around in the Alicante and Valencia areas, although the place my family had years ago was on the costa tropical - dont remember it having an exotic name like that in the seventies. Still seems a lot of negativity about but I guess that is more aimed at those that need to find work out there and move families across. Thought I would put on an update for the folk that offered help.


Thanks for the update Tilley.

No, I don't remember the Costa Tropical being called that a few years ago but it does make it sound rather exotic. 

Personally, I haven't found any negativity about it, but I live inland so I may simply not have noticed. What I will say though is that our 'village day trips' never seem to go to the Costa Tropical, but to Benalmádena or Fuengirola, but perhaps that's just because they are further away...

But it is a great journey from Granada down to the Costa Tropical. The scenery is stunning.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

Solwriter said:


> Thanks for the update Tilley.
> 
> No, I don't remember the Costa Tropical being called that a few years ago but it does make it sound rather exotic.
> 
> ...


I`ve got to agree with Solwriter. I live between Granada and the Costa Tropical and it is an amazing run down to the coast. Stunning motorway carving through the foothills of the Sierra Nevada. Whilst places like Motril and Salobrena aren`t everyone`s cuppa , there are many little alternative places dotted along the coast - especially if you head up towards Almeria, busier if you head other way towards Malaga.

It certainly is not as densely populated as other coastal areas, which suits me very much. I also like the fact I can travel from the mountains down to the coast in around 40 mins, but in summer, expect the usual faffing about with delays at the coast. Adds a bit more time, but hey, it´s not Chiswick roundabout on a Monday morning...


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Opps. Poor English on my part lol, not negativity about that particular part of Spain, negativity on the forum about moving to Spain in general. 

I did visit a couple of years back and it was quite a culture shock having not been there for 28 years, the sheer scale of the development. I have very fond memorys of Motril, Almunecar, Salobrena etc when we had our place in the later, all the urban sprawl along the coast was just sugar cane, seems like a lifetime ago - well I guess it was and life moves on, the Spainish deserve a robust economy if they can get it just like anywhere else in the world.

Needless to say the motorway wasn't there in those days 28 years back, but when I was driving along it a couple of years ago, it seemed to 'run out' at Almunecar has that changed now, or did we just get lost a bit ?

LOL I love Chiswick you cant beat a bit of 'toff area' London.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Something positive:

Unemployment fell last month on the Island of El Hierro, and all the other Canary Islands.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tilley said:


> Well hopefully we would be in the large majority that do not cause any problems, but am worried that we do not fall into the extremely elderly category that seems to be your tenant of choice, so wont be looking to yourself to house us lol
> 
> Presumably there are many properties/landloards who are deperate to rent out without fulfilling your stringent criteria.
> 
> ...


Well, I guess that MI5 wouldn't dig up any dirt on you so I could sleep soundly with you as a tenant
I did make it clear that there were dodgy people on both sides. My experiences as a landlord have not been positive and that is bound to colour my judgment. I've also heard horrendous stories of truly dreadful tenants in Spain. The fact is it's easy for foreign tenants to simply cut and run leaving unpaid bills and damage behind them and that happens far too often.

Be very careful when renting in the UK via an agent. I used an agent to handle the short-term renting of the house we lived in whilst it was on the market after we moved to Prague. I was told the tenant had 'excellent' references but the agency knew this to be untrue as they had had problems with her before. There were other things that they undertook to do and didn't.
Make sure the contract is 100% legal and water-tight. The agent, if a good one, will arrange for tax on your rental income to be properly declared.

Good Luck!


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you, I will heed your warnings. I think I am too boring to be wanted by M15


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tilley said:


> Thank you, I will heed your warnings. I think I am too boring to be wanted by M15


Don't pay too much attention - I am becoming a miserable old sod. Glass always half-empty and all that...


I blame it on Mrs. Thatcher.....


(It's an in-joke)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> Still seems a lot of negativity about but I guess that is more aimed at those that need to find work out there and move families across.


As you say Tilley, negativity AKA _
Life in Spain for People with Dependants and Who are Looking for Work_ 
is not directed at people who are financially secure and not needing employment. If you want to come over and spend some money in Spain, come on down!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Tilley said:


> Needless to say the motorway wasn't there in those days 28 years back, but when I was driving along it a couple of years ago, it seemed to 'run out' at Almunecar has that changed now, or did we just get lost a bit ?


It still does 'run out' there. 
No real problem on the journey from Granada (turning off either towards Malaga or towards Almeria), but can be confusing on the way back as it is not well-signposted.

First time we did the journey back from Nerja to Granada this way, we overshot the motorway turn-off and ended up far towards Almeria, until I could convince my husband that he had missed the turn-off (he's stubborn like that, lol!).


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Did they run out of money ? It just seemed an odd place for it to end, and it looked like they were intending to continue it but it was brought to a halt for some reason.

I used to love the journey from Malaga to Salobrena all those years ago seemed like an adventure as it was still very untouched, sometimes we did it by cab if we had enough money and could find someone to take us all the way, otherwise we used public transport & I think we used to change in Motril, it seemed to take forever but we were young and just didn't care. Happy days.


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## Sceptocrat (Jun 3, 2012)

All I would say is, give it a try. You must be interested in the idea, so go for it. Otherwise you will possibly regret not doing it later on in life.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We originally intended to spend three years in Spain then move to France.
We have decided to stay.


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## Sceptocrat (Jun 3, 2012)

Spain is addictive. Plus, France is full of French people for some reason....


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> We originally intended to spend three years in Spain then move to France.
> We have decided to stay.


Would the French have let you in?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sceptocrat said:


> Spain is addictive. Plus, France is full of French people for some reason....


Well, we spent three years in Prague, then moved here and the plan was to stay here for a while then move on to France. My son helped a friend rebuild and restore houses in a small hamlet which he bought in a beautiful rural area of the Perigord and where we would have occupied one of the houses he rents out.
The plan was then to go to Glasgow and rent an apartment in the Merchant City.
All that changed over a year ago when I went in April to a Conference in Glasgow....it was almost as cold as Prague in January, I kid you not... At every corner I was met by an icy blast that almost knocked me off my feet.
So on my return I plonked down my bag and said firmly: 'I wish to stay here'.
OH, who is Glaswegian, didn't need much persuading.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> Would the French have let you in?


Mais oui....on m'acceptera sans hesitation....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Mais oui....on m'acceptera sans hesitation....


:laser: ahem.......language


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> :laser: ahem.......language



Alright then: 


Why the **** wouldn't they?

(Very loose translation)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Alright then:
> 
> 
> Why the **** wouldn't they?
> ...


hmmmm very................


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Mais oui....on m'acceptera sans hesitation....


Why yes they would accept me without hesitation.


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## CroptopMartin (Oct 1, 2010)

We have a place in Mijas Costa. Telefonica took a whole year telling us that there were technical problems our end, for why our landline Internet connection never ever worked. After a year, they said our exchange couldn't support Internet broadband. Our solution throughout this time has been a Wi-Fi connection. There is a permanent receiver unit (about 20cm x 5cm x 3cm) bolted to wall outside. We get about 1.3megabit download speed. 

In the UK we subscribed to a service that gives us a Voice Over IP phone, with a UK based phone number the same as our home exchange in UK. When in Spain, we just plug it into our Wi-Fi router (see wifi above), and have an apparently UK number although we are in Spain. 
Anyone in the UK calling us, is charged UK call rates. We don't pay any call charges except the subscription to V.O.I.P. service, as long as calls are less than 60mins and are to normal landlines. i.e. Numbers beginning 01 or 02 etc. National numbers begin 01. London is 020 and so on. 

If you come across numbers 0844 0845 0870 etc, premium rates, check this free website to see if there is a UK landline number. saynoto0870 dot com


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## CroptopMartin (Oct 1, 2010)

PS you can pay higher rates for faster speeds on our Wi-Fi connection.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Mmm, seems to be a bit of thread drift, have come back from a couple of weeks reccie and am not so sure about this as an idea now. Looking at things through the eyes of someone going to live there for 2 or 3 years rather than just holiday makers eyes, even with few money worries it may not be the place to be. Perhaps we need to look at another area but the deep south east really isn't the place for us. The lack of green and the parched unattractive nature of the place didnt appeal (maybe should look at Santander or somewhere like that). The apartment we stayed in last year and was for sale for £399,000 is now for sale at £275,000 with no takers 12 months down the line, and I will be interested to see what it's for sale for next summer. Decent meals for 4 not rubbish like pasta and pizza were 150 euros  with a bottle of nice wine, so I can eat better and cheaper here.Perhaps we were in the wrong place but the graffiti problems were horrendous along the main motorways etc it looks like the Authorities have no money to deal with this. Also a lot of the people seemed miserable obviously not all and I am not someone who ever tars all with the same brush as that is just immature, but then of course we were spending euros all the time. I think I am trying to have the gap year I never had when i finished my A levels maybe i should just accept that it should have been done then and as a middle aged couple we are best off with what we have. I also didn't really get to grips with how the rental contracts worked and certainly wouldn't want to buy at present, has a spanish speaker with us but it all seemed a bit more complcated than here, and the potential to be ripped off for deposits seemed rife. i hope anyone going comes on here and takes a lot of advice first so that they know the pitfalls as once you are out of your comfort zone you could agree to something that really isn't going to work for you. Haven't ruled it out 100% but now have reservations that you dont have when you look at a place as a potential home rather than a holiday resort.


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Tilley said:


> Mmm, seems to be a bit of thread drift, have come back from a couple of weeks reccie and am not so sure about this as an idea now. Looking at things through the eyes of someone going to live there for 2 or 3 years rather than just holiday makers eyes, even with few money worries it may not be the place to be. Perhaps we need to look at another area but the deep south east really isn't the place for us. The lack of green and the parched unattractive nature of the place didnt appeal (maybe should look at Santander or somewhere like that). The apartment we stayed in last year and was for sale for £399,000 is now for sale at £275,000 with no takers 12 months down the line, and I will be interested to see what it's for sale for next summer. Decent meals for 4 not rubbish like pasta and pizza were 150 euros  with a bottle of nice wine, so I can eat better and cheaper here.Perhaps we were in the wrong place but the graffiti problems were horrendous along the main motorways etc it looks like the Authorities have no money to deal with this. Also a lot of the people seemed miserable obviously not all and I am not someone who ever tars all with the same brush as that is just immature, but then of course we were spending euros all the time. I think I am trying to have the gap year I never had when i finished my A levels maybe i should just accept that it should have been done then and as a middle aged couple we are best off with what we have. I also didn't really get to grips with how the rental contracts worked and certainly wouldn't want to buy at present, has a spanish speaker with us but it all seemed a bit more complcated than here, and the potential to be ripped off for deposits seemed rife. i hope anyone going comes on here and takes a lot of advice first so that they know the pitfalls as once you are out of your comfort zone you could agree to something that really isn't going to work for you. Haven't ruled it out 100% but now have reservations that you dont have when you look at a place as a potential home rather than a holiday resort.


Yes, I went through the same experience. We went for a look to spend winters in Spain but on our retrun we found.

1) it was too cold in winter and houses not made for the cold there.
2) The CDS really lacks soul with the ghettos cynically built by the side of the motorways
3) They lost the plot with building everywhere.
4) parched and not too green

We like living near a city for cinemas, children's activities, restaurants and so on. I guess the main city would be Malaga. No thanks.

For me it would have to be Barcelona/Valencia/Serville. The CDS really did not float my boat at all.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

maxd said:


> Yes, I went through the same experience. We went for a look to spend winters in Spain but on our retrun we found.
> 
> 1) it was too cold in winter and houses not made for the cold there.
> 2) The CDS really lacks soul with the ghettos cynically built by the side of the motorways
> ...


You went to the wrong place at the wrong time, max. February wasn't it? And a cold and miserable one too.

How can you speak of cold winters when you live in Prague??? And the muck and mud when it thaws?

You live in a city where the southern and eastern outskirts resemble a scene from the Battle for Stalingrad and you talk of ghettos by motorways??

Come on, max, you saw a very small part of the CdS. Much of it is ugly and tatty as is most of the CR. But not everywhere. You're giving an impression of what you experienced. There is more to the CdS than that.

Look at the pictures of my village I posted in SCenes from Spain or whatever the thread is called.

I've got guests from the UK and we've just returned from a lunch in the mountains near Casares, the kind of lunch you would find nowhere in Prague. We're now having a siesta by the pool surrounded by greenery, trees, sea and mountain views.
Later we'll go to our very quiet beach for a walk and nightcap in the village. No high-rise, no beach bars, very few people.

We had a lovely house just outside Prague and enjoyed our stay there but couldn't live in such a comparatively primitive country. You should not judge the CdS by what you see along the A7.
Sadly you can judge Prague by what yuou see along the motorways.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Tilley said:


> Mmm, seems to be a bit of thread drift, have come back from a couple of weeks reccie and am not so sure about this as an idea now. Looking at things through the eyes of someone going to live there for 2 or 3 years rather than just holiday makers eyes, even with few money worries it may not be the place to be. Perhaps we need to look at another area but the deep south east really isn't the place for us. The lack of green and the parched unattractive nature of the place didnt appeal (maybe should look at Santander or somewhere like that). The apartment we stayed in last year and was for sale for £399,000 is now for sale at £275,000 with no takers 12 months down the line, and I will be interested to see what it's for sale for next summer. Decent meals for 4 not rubbish like pasta and pizza were 150 euros  with a bottle of nice wine, so I can eat better and cheaper here.Perhaps we were in the wrong place but the graffiti problems were horrendous along the main motorways etc it looks like the Authorities have no money to deal with this. Also a lot of the people seemed miserable obviously not all and I am not someone who ever tars all with the same brush as that is just immature, but then of course we were spending euros all the time. I think I am trying to have the gap year I never had when i finished my A levels maybe i should just accept that it should have been done then and as a middle aged couple we are best off with what we have. I also didn't really get to grips with how the rental contracts worked and certainly wouldn't want to buy at present, has a spanish speaker with us but it all seemed a bit more complcated than here, and the potential to be ripped off for deposits seemed rife. i hope anyone going comes on here and takes a lot of advice first so that they know the pitfalls as once you are out of your comfort zone you could agree to something that really isn't going to work for you. Haven't ruled it out 100% but now have reservations that you dont have when you look at a place as a potential home rather than a holiday resort.


Thanks for coming back and telling us about your experiences Tilley.

As to the parched appearance...
I would say that a great many areas in Spain have that parched appearance right now. But the summer started earlier this year, which adds to the problem (along with the fires of course).
Where we live, we expect to see parched-looking fields from July onwards, but last year we had greenery for quite a long time into the summer (there again, we had more rain - cant have everything, lol!). But this year, the whole area looks like something from a spaghetti western.

Graffiti...
Our village has actually paid a group of workers to paint Graffiti images all along the main walls on the main road through the village. Must have been some sort of job-making scheme. 
I like it - it's very well done - but doesn't quite give the appearance of the tranquil Spanish village that some holiday makers may be looking for I guess. 

I would definitely take a look at Santander if I were you, or the surrounding area.
It does seem an awful lot greener. But apart from the look, I actually like Santander and would have considered living there had we not already decided on Granada region. It just felt right and the people seemed friendly and helpful.
Haven't been back there for a while though....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Thanks for coming back and telling us about your experiences Tilley.
> 
> As to the parched appearance...
> I would say that a great many areas in Spain have that parched appearance right now. But the summer started earlier this year, which adds to the problem (along with the fires of course).
> ...


S/he did say they were in south-east Spain....CdS is really south-west.

WE have two lots of graffiti in our village. One says rude things about Estepona police, the other says Death to immigrants...


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> You went to the wrong place at the wrong time, max. February wasn't it? And a cold and miserable one too.
> 
> How can you speak of cold winters when you live in Prague??? And the muck and mud when it thaws?
> 
> ...


Wife felt the same Mary. It was/is in our opinion contrived, basically Disneyland for northern Europeans.
We are going to Southern Florida or Australia for the winter months this coming Winter.

That is all it is for us really a winter escape, we are not interested in a permanent move.

Glad you are happy though, everywhere has it's good and bad points and it depends where you are or want to be in life. For us we are happy here 8 month a year, the winters really do drag though.

Just to add to that, I really do love Spain so I do not have it in for the country. Love my trips to Barcelona and Madrid. My wife's ideal place would be a house in the hills above Barcelona, just a shame it is too far north.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> S/he did say they were in south-east Spain....CdS is really south-west.
> 
> WE have two lots of graffiti in our village. One says rude things about Estepona police, the other says Death to immigrants...


Yes...
But this is the OP's thread and I was thanking her for posting an update and telling us about her particular experiences.

We get some pretty nasty graffiti in places too, but it usually gets cleaned away pretty quickly by the locals.
I was just saying that, just the same as in the UK, all graffiti isn't bad graffiti.
That's all.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Yes...
> But this is the OP's thread and I was thanking her for posting an update and telling us about her particular experiences.
> 
> We get some pretty nasty graffiti in places too, but it usually gets cleaned away pretty quickly by the locals.
> ...


Some graffiti brightens a place up....

The whole point about experiences of Spain or anywhere is that they are very largely subjective and also depend on your past experiences and future expectations.
It's also not fair to judge any place on a relatively short acquaintance and holiday experiences rarely if ever resemble every-day life.

For years I dreamed of living in Prague. I'd visited friends for decades, thought I knew enough about the city and was thrilled to be able to leave the UK for what I thought would be a long-time stay if not a permanent one. The first year was idyllic. We had a lovely apartment for our first year in a quiet village fifteen minutes by train or bus from Central Prague, then moved to a large house roughly the same distance away.. Severe cold and deep snow were novelties. We travelled round the country a lot and made trips to many other places in Europe. I went back regularly to the UK so it was all new and exciting.
The second year the rose-coloured specs fell off and we realised we were living in a country with a much lower living standard than we were used to. I'm not talking about designer boutiques or fashionable restaurants - just everyday things like poor quality fruit and vegetables, poor public and personal hygiene and an almost total lack of what for lack of a better term I'll call elegance.
We also found the 'it's good enough' and 'we've always done it this way' mentality irritating. 
Snow loses its charm when it thaws and there is thick mud everywhere even in the city centre.
So off to Spain where we stayed in my son's house and looked around for a place of our own. We visited quite a few places along the CdS and inland but they weren't to our taste. But loads of immigrants obviously had settled happily there. When we settled where we our now I began to feel at home. But if anyone had asked me during the first few months how I felt about Spain I woulod have been very negative. I think that perhaps we have been very lucky.
What I have come to realise is that people have preconceptions about the CdS possibly because of its reputation as the Costa Del Crime...and yes, parts are horribly over-developed with hideous apartment blocks - just like Prague. Snobbish friends raised their eyebrows when I said we were moving there. Even my son thought we'd prefer France.
But to my surprise I'm very happy. I knew Sandra would be. As a vegetarian who eats fish she found life very hard in Prague. We laughed as we observed that she began eating with enjoyment the moment we crossed from the CR into Germany on our voyage down to Spain.
So no-one should be either put off or lured by individual experiences. You really do need to spend some time in a place to find out what everyday life is like before deciding this or that place is for you.

Interestingly, we have guests from the UK who are enjoying their stay but couldn't live here as it's too quiet apart from our neighbour's cockerel which wakes them up each morning...


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

maxd said:


> Yes, I went through the same experience. We went for a look to spend winters in Spain but on our retrun we found.
> 
> 1) it was too cold in winter and houses not made for the cold there.
> 2) The CDS really lacks soul with the ghettos cynically built by the side of the motorways
> ...


Hi and many thanks for your reply. It is good to hear from someone who has tried to look into doing something similar. We were really looking down in what I beleive is called the Costa Calida and its environs and touring round various places as we had a feeling that a smaller Spanish City might suit. 

We are probably being too picky as we do not want to be in somekind of ex-pat enclave neither do we want to be stuck in the middle of a village with no access to anything, we also do not want it too quiet. We've been to Malaga many times so wouldn't investigate it for us as although we are not 100 % sure where we want to be, we also know a few places we dont want to be, if that makes sense (probably sounds like goobledgook)

So it's kind of back to the drawing board for us and I think the next venture will to visit a few towns in northern spain, but I probably need to stop visiting this forum, and finding myself posting and do some research, and book things up for some weeks down the line or our window of opportunity will fast close in on us. 

I hope you enjoy Florida DH has a hankering to go there as well, but I have been sticking out for Spain. Mainly due to nostalgia as my dear Mum (God rest her) had a place there for 6 maybe 7 years and we used to live there for months at a time but that is light years ago.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> Hi and many thanks for your reply. It is good to hear from someone who has tried to look into doing something similar. We were really looking down in what I beleive is called the Costa Calida and its environs and touring round various places as we had a feeling that a smaller Spanish City might suit.
> 
> We are probably being too picky as we do not want to be in somekind of ex-pat enclave neither do we want to be stuck in the middle of a village with no access to anything, we also do not want it too quiet. We've been to Malaga many times so wouldn't investigate it for us as although we are not 100 % sure where we want to be, we also know a few places we dont want to be, if that makes sense (probably sounds like goobledgook)
> 
> ...


You're not being too picky, you're looking for what is right for you. No point in getting something which doesn't tick the boxes and then only half enjoying it. There are some threads here about northern Spain, there was one just last week I think, so if you search north Spain/ northern Spain and some place names like Cantabria/ Santander/ Galicia/ Bilbao you'll get some info, if you want it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Why do people thinkthat you have two choices when deciding to live in Spain....either being in 'expat-land'(?) or stuck in the middle of a village??? There is much more to the CdS than Torremolinos...

As for 'adult Disneyland'....I'm wondering just where max spent his week in February...because there is nothing remotely resembling that description within several hours' drive from where I live.

I would have thought Florida would resemble 'adult Disneyland' more than anywhere in Spain. Brash, tacky in parts....blue-rinse territory...

Agreed that after three years in Prague a week in a half-way decent hotel in Morecombe would seem like heaven...

It's impossible to recommend a place to anyone without knowing their tastes, boredom threshold etc. We've got two friends from the UK staying....one is perfectly content just lying around our pool, pottering around the village and going for lunch in a little unpretentious venta in the campo.
The other is bored with our quiet life, misses bars, 'good' restaurants and shops so is off to Marbella tomorrow while the rest of us take a stroll to the village for our morning coffee and churro.
And this a couple who've lived together for twenty years who obviously couldn't agree where to settle when they retire abroad, as no doubt they will....


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Yes, there is more to the CDS than Torremolinos, as there is more to the Costa Blanca than Benidorm. Either way, many people are happy to live in these places while others are not.

Again, there are many different types of villages in Spain - some tiny, others what many in the UK would call large towns.
But most of us here know what being "stuck in the middle of a village" means.
I certainly do anyway. If I didn't have access to a car, I would be stuck - two buses a day, going only there and back to one place and a return timetable that doesn't make sense.

I will admit that I do not know anywhere in Andalucia I would describe as Adult Disneyland, but maybe I've been missing something, as I wouldn't mind spending a day there. It would make a nice break from village life.

I agree that it's impossible to recommend a place to anyone without knowing their tastes, boredom threshold etc. But there is no harm in trying.
As you say, people vary in their tastes and by that I would think that they also vary in how they describe a particular place.
But just because their description of a particular area is not the same as others' descriptions, it should not be taken as an affront.

It could well be that others reading this thread have more in common with some of the posters than you do and therefore find their posts useful.
Spain is diverse as are the people living here or thinking about moving here and therefore diverse views should be welcome.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

When I started this thread I never for a moment implied that I only thought there were two places that people could happily spend a few years in Spain, ie huge ex-pat communities or a village, and spent the last fortnight exploring options that were neither of these two extremes. So I am unsure where that has all come from 

Thank you Solwriter for your balanced view. I am very aware that people cannot choose an ideal place for others to live with just information based on a few forum posts, i would imagine that many at best hope for some helpful suggestions that they can then go and further research themselves as to suitability. That was all I hoped for not an actually street recommendation.


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