# Moving to Thailand



## alexviseu

Hey everyone.

I'm new to the whole Thailand scene so I decided to ask a couple of questions to expats already living there. First some info about me.

I'm a 30 year old male Portuguese. I'm a freelance web developer. I work online for employers mostly in America, UK and Australia, so it doesn't really matter where I live.

I'm at the moment renting a room in Lisbon for about $400/month (utilities included). I could rent cheaper elsewhere but I can only find Boxing in the Capital (not very popular around here). I rarely go out at night and most of my expenses (probably around $800) is food (I eat out pretty much every single meal).

I moved to Mexico last year for work purposes and I liked the experience of living in a foreign country. I like hot and relaxed places. The cheaper the better. 

I've been reading about how cheap one can live in Thailand so I decided to explore the possibility of moving there for the remainder of 2013, allowing me to both save money and possibly decrease my workload allowing me to work on some personal projects.

I don't need much comfort to live and I'm not materialistic at all. A small bedroom with a bathroom, cheap food and an internet connection is mostly what I need. My aim is to spend maybe $300/$400 a month while saving up everything I can. In addition to that I'm also planning on taking Muay Thai classes in addition to that.

My idea is to move to Bangkok although I'm open to the idea of other towns. I prefer urban areas as opposed to rural areas. I know absolutely nothing of Thai and ideally I would like to be in walking distance of most relevant places (the gym, a mall, food vendors, etc).

I've visited the Thai Embassy in Lisbon to check requirements for visa and they told me no visa is needed for a 30 day stay (they just stamp the passport).

What area of Bangkok do advice me to move to? I'm looking for a studio around 2000 to 4000 bahts in a area with good internet and ideally plenty variety of local cheap food. 

What clothes should I bring? I've read that it's good taste to wear pants and tshirt/shirt instead of going flip flops and shorts.

Know any good on-the-cheap-side Muay Thai gyms? I've read about monthly passes costing around $250, which sounds crazy to me (I pay around $50 for boxing here in Portugal).

Did you guys take any vaccine shots before going to Thailand?

Any general tips? I know next to nothing about Thailand other that they have this bowing and joining hands greeting.

Thanks!


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## Hippie69

Well first of all you better check craigslist on rentals then there are things like do you want a mudhut or half ways decent place? Then there is the Visa issue since your not retired and plan on doing online work you need work permit plus if you choose not to get one then you got visa runs to consider twice monthly I do suppose you want to eat? food is cheap women Well can be cheap but at times can cost more all depends on taste.


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## visual effects editor

I think I know where you are coming from. I like to be positive, but $400 a month is not enough. You could get by on maybe $800, but not much fun. 

Better look into Visa requirements and how that will cost you in border visa runs. Security at super cheap hotels or backpacker places might mean your laptop might disappear, so you will be carrying it everywhere. A super cheap room in Bangkok may not be air conditioned, and believe me it is hot in Bangkok, like 90 degrees and very high humidity. You might find it hard to work, concentrate and sleep under those conditions. Parts of Bangkok are VERY noisy with crazy traffic. Security on the street is not a problem, but in a very funky room in a very funky building, again your computer could be gone fast. 

Look into all the restrictions for foreigners working in Thailand. You should be OK doing web design alone in your room, just don't work for anyone INSIDE Thailand. Don't tell anyone you are working without a work permit. 

All my THAI friends in Bangkok are living on $1000 US and that is very basic. They all have room mates to split rent and food and that is something you might look into.

Because your are young and male you will have no problems making friends. Chose wisely and stay away from bar girls. Don't get a Thai girlfriend because, like dating everywhere, it gets expensive, unless you are splitting expenses, that might work. Find a nice Thai college student with a degree in computer science that you can trust. 

If you went way up north and got out of Bangkok right away and rented a room in some farm house, maybe you could find a WiFi network you could use. Maybe in a village. That could be cheap and peaceful. Not sure about boxing. 

Thailand JUST got 3G network. Internet speed is hit or miss. It can be fast or super slow, depends on where you are. 

You don't need much in the way of clothes, but just have a nice shirt and pants for official business at visa runs. The rest of the time it is 80-90 degrees so shorts and tee-shirts. Some parts of Thailand can be cool in the evening, so one VERY light jacket. I have a very light weight plastic rain jacket that folds up in my pack. You will need one if you get caught out in the open in the rain to cover your laptop and you. It pours in Thailand. I would not wear flip flops unless I was at the beach, but that is me. A small hat for the sun and sunscreen when you are out in the country or at the beach. One small backpack for your computer and a small duffel bag should do it. 

Cellphones and network access is cheap, services and labor are cheap, public transportation is cheap, cars and fuel are very expensive, consumer electronics and computers and replacement parts are about the same or slightly more. Computer stores are in every big city. Bangkok has a super mall full of computers. 

Everyone gets lost. You will get lost. I navigate using a old iPhone 4 with a GPS app call Sygic SE. $40 but worth it as it does not need cellphone network access to work. I have driven all over Thailand and it works everywhere. It is really great when dealing with taxi drivers who are ALWAYS lost or can't find anything which is very common, or on a bus just wondering how much longer to go. The iPhone is also my camera. Also look into Thai language apps. 

Food can be cheap if you eat with Thai people which is great fun and part of the experience. Not sure how you will pay for medical if you get in a accident. You will be riding the bus and train, or taxi to get around. Taxis in town are cheap.

To be safe, you will need to drink bottled water almost everywhere. There is cheap beer, but if you go into a bar you will quickly go over your tight monthly budget, and you will learn why the first night.  

Don't over stay your visa or you will be thrown in jail. Don't be around drugs or you will be throw in prison, don't say anything bad about the Royal family EVER, anywhere in cyberspace, in a email or in the real world. Don't get into a fight, ever. As you are not Thai, YOU WILL LOSE EVERY TIME. I say this because of your boxing references. No weapons of any type and don't disrespect the police. 

So I say GO FOR IT but research and know what you are doing. And look into Cambodia. MUCH BETTER on your budget.


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## visual effects editor

Also bank fees for transferring money from the E.U. and ATM fees access to E.U. banks can be VERY expensive. It really adds up on a tight budget. I would bring as much cash with you as you legally can and open a savings account in a Thai bank with a ATM card so you can access your cash without ATM fees. You will be paying almost all cash for everything. I am assuming your employers will be sending money to your E.U. bank?


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## visual effects editor

here are rooms for rent in Bangkok. Some prices are per night. Some are free if you are female! hehehe....

thailand rooms & shares classifieds - craigslist



Apartments: 

thailand apts/housing for rent classifieds - craigslist


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## alexviseu

Hey, thanks a lot for the replies!

While I would have no trouble having a $1000/month budget, I don't really understand why such high amount is needed. If I chose a cheap studio in a relatively safe area of the street, food should be cheap enough to avoid getting my budget need high right?

I'm planning on doing a visa run every odd Sunday by using an agency. Portuguese citizens have a "free" 30 day entry. No visa needed at all. They just stamp my passport and are done with it. I've read that Thailand policy made changes so that land border visas now only last 15 days. While I'm not sure what would happen in my particular case I'm assuming the worse case scenario. (I was told 30 days every time I entered Thailand but I didn't ask for clarification on repeated land border passages)

Regarding the cheap hotels, I'm not really planning in staying in Hotels, but thanks for the warning. As I will definitely need some place to crash before I manage to find and rent a decent studio. In what areas of town do you advice me to search for a studio? I definitely do not want my laptop stolen. 

I'm not going to work for anyone or any company in Thailand so I should be fine.

I'm planning on bringing my Vodafone Smart II (a cheap smart phone with GPS) so I can find my around town. I figured this is specially important since I know next to nothing in Thai. Already unlocked my phone in hopes that it is easy to buy a pre-paid SIM card.

I'll definitely get a backpack for my laptop. Is it easy to find plastic rain jacket in Bangkok? Or should I bring one of those with me? What kind of shoes should I use during the rain season? (Isn't that now?)

I researched about some travel insurances that included health bills (or if the treatment is too expensive, they cover the moving costs back to Portugal where I have both insurance and a public health care system).

Bottled water goes without saying. I've done it while I was staying in Mexico, and some years ago when I was in Angola and Mozambique. Hell, I even drink mostly bottled water here in Portugal just because I don't like the tap water taste.

I work through an online platform which joins employers and employees (odesk). It allows me to transfer the money anywhere I want, although transferring to my Portuguese bank offers me the least amount of fees.

I would also not dream of fighting anyone in the street or disrespecting the police. I'm a very calm non-violent live-and-let-live kind guy. I'm also aware that I would be accepted in Thailand as a good-will and a privilege. It's not my divine right to be there so I better be on my best behavior.

Thanks again for your reply, it was really helpful.


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## alexviseu

Oh! Almost forgot. I read somewhere that it was a good idea to try finding studios in Bangkok using local real estate companies, which would add a small fee but would be extremely helpful and streamline the process of finding somewhere for me to stay. 

Have you had any experience with that?


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## visual effects editor

maybe you can do it! I have not seen these super cheap places. 

great info here:

How To Live Like a VIP in Bangkok for $285.06 Per Month

How to Rent Cheap Apartments in Bangkok, Thailand

Let me know what you find.

and here:

http://www.mrroomfinder.com/

and here:

http://en.9apartment.com/


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## visual effects editor

cheapest listing i could find:

Bangkok Apartments & Thailand Condos Property Details

1800 baht near the university.


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## Sateev

The longer you live there, the cheaper it becomes. As you learn Thai, you will be able to get things cheaper, and they will be easier to find.

Note that I'm talking about YEARS not weeks to get to that level of comfort and proficiency.

In the meantime, you have VERY few options to allow you to stay in Thailand long enough to get to that point. Land border crossings are 15 days for everyone, NOT 30. Flying in gets you 30, but obviously it's impractical. Going to a nearby Consulate in one of the neighboring countries will get you 60 days (which you can extend by 30 for 1900 baht), but they are even tightening that process, depending on which Consulate you consult.

The best, but not really cheapest, option is to study Thai on an ED visa, usually about 25,000 baht/year. Plenty to choose from in Bangkok.

Finding a 2000-4000 baht room in Bangkok is possible, but it won't be much, and it won't be within walking distance of either the BTS or MRT. And you won't find much English spoken in those neighborhoods, either. It's all doable, especially if you have a Thai friend help you get started.

Also remember that if you choose the ED visa method, you'll have to attend classes, and it can be quite a chore to get from some cheap neighborhood to a school in one of the business districts, not to mention expensive.

It all adds up, and even a cheap apartment and street food, internet, mobile phone, transportation, etc., all contribute to a surprisingly large budget every month.

Gone are the days when I could rent a cheap room in Sukhumvit, walk everywhere, and eat for $2 a day.

One last thing: go to the Consulate you mentioned, and pay for a Tourist visa before you go. Stay 90 days (60+extension), and then try a border run for another Tourist visa. That gets you close to six months, and an idea of what you are dealing with. Then get back to us.

Good luck.


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## Laislica

Download Steven Leather's book - Private Dancer.
It's free and will give you insight into the seamy side of Thailand.
Not wishing to spoil the ending..... What was intended for the ending actually happens in Thailand.
Buy Thailand Fever and it will help you to understand the differences between Thai and weatern cultures. (.torrent?)
Look in YouTube for something like Big trouble in Thailand, a TV series about just how easy it is to fall foul of the law and how hard they will come down on you.
I read an earlier post advising you against bar girls, I'd add beach parties with buckets of booze, jet skis, tuk tuk and taxi scams. Oh, and stay away from balconies.....
Have a search for 101 things to do in Bangkok (Mark Wiens)
He also has many pages on his website about street eating Thai food.
There is a great podcast that will help you learn Thai, not expensive but super (since your English is so good). Learn Thai Podcast, try some of the free stuff first.

What ever you do keep your sensible head on and refuse the temptation to wear a Tropical Holiday Head. You'll understand this soon after you arrive.
Good luck and enjoy.


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## alexviseu

Hey!

Sorry for the long delay. I actually just had my apartment broke into and my laptop stolen. Guess it's not just in Thailand that this kind of thing happens. Luckily I have insurance so I'll get it back eventually. I guess I'll need to make sure my travel insurance also includes theft of laptops before moving to Bangkok.

I will need to be extra careful while in Thailand. Here in Portugal I was able to get my old desktop to work while I wait for the insurance company to reimburse me my stolen laptop, but I wouldn't be able to do it while in Thailand. And I do need it for work.

Aside from renting an apartment in a relatively safe neighborhood (in terms of house break ins) is there anything else I can do to prevent theft? Are safes cheap and safe enough to secure a laptop while I'm out of the house? I don't want to walk around with my laptop all the time, and I would probably lose it or have it stolen even faster if I were to do that.

As a back up, are low-end laptops cheap in Thailand? And will they come with Thai characters on it? In the event I get my laptop stolen I'll need to replace it ASAP. So the most I know about that the better. I read there is a huge electronic/hardware building mall, anyone knows where in Bangkok it is located?

Would living near a university make it safer or more unsafe in terms of house break ins?

The ED visa option seems really a good idea, and it kills two birds with one stone as I would be able to learn Thai and avoid visa runs. Which are two things I will definitely want to do if I eventually decide to stay long term.

The reason I will probably not do the 60 day visa here in Portugal is because they told me they need a return flight to be scheduled, which I do not want to buy before I need it. I might stay in Thailand for 5 months, or I might stay for a month or so and they try Japan and/or South Korea, then back to Bangkok. I will depend much on my experience while I'm there. I prefer to have to do visa runs every 15 days a couple of times instead of being stuck with a plane ticket I'll probably spend a ton of money rescheduling over and over again.

I'm not too worried about the budget really. I would be able to have a way larger budget, but just trying to make it cheap so I can save money for other travels or personal projects. Everything I've researched so far is way cheaper in Thailand than in Portugal, well except beer, coffee and Muay Thai classes, so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine if I keep my current lifestyle as close to what I have right now as possible.

That Big trouble in Thailand series was actually entertaining to watch. It was like COPS but in Thailand. That Jet Ski segment was really scary, no wonder everyone kept warning against it. Luckily I don't usually drink alcohol (had like 4 beers the last year and half), don't do drugs and don't particularly care for Jet Ski. So I'm guessing if I keep my wits about taxi meters and obvious tourist traps I should be fine. 

I've been researching about Thai etiquette, manners and the way to be polite in Thailand. I'm always petrified wherever I go that I'll end up offending the locals somehow. 

I'm planning to move to Thailand by the end of next month or so. I should be able to speak very basic Thai (say hello, say thanks, ask for food, etc). Is there some sort of "support group/organization" for new farangs? Somewhere in Bangkok I can go if I have some sort of questions or even just for socializing.

Thanks again for all your replies, these are being really helpful. Feeling a bit more confident that everything will be as close to OK as possible.


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## Sateev

Agree with the previous poster: read everything you can about Thailand, but, most of all, be sure you know and accept the REAL reason(s) why you want to move there.

Be prepared for a lot of hassles with government officials, particularly if you want to stay long-term. No two Immigration officers will have the same requirements, even though they are supposed to follow the law, they often make it up as they go along, depending on their mood, and whether or not they like you.

Also, bear in mind that visiting on a Tourist visa and actually living in Thailand are two ENTIRELY different things. If you actually live there, you will want to get at least a motorcycle and driving license, which means more interaction with government stooges; you may need a phone line for internet: more issues, not difficult, but without Thai language skills, may be harder. Many small things pop up that you will have to deal with, and you'll definitely pay more for everything than locals, or even farangs who know the ropes.

My own take (and why I left Thailand earlier this year) is that the government is anti-foreigner, and actively propagandizing to encourage anti-foreigner sentiment in order to shift the focus from their own mis-deeds. This manifests in many small ways, but at all adds up to a less enjoyable experience than in the past. At least you don't have the additional burden of being American 

Also, things may go completely bad when the Big Event happens. Don't underestimate this. His Majesty is the single most important thing in the average Thai's life, and they are very emotionally invested. Public reaction could well be violent against foreigners, especially if whipped up by the government.

Lastly, without a visa AND/OR a return or onward flight, you will most likely not be allowed to board an aircraft for Thailand. If you do, and the Thai authorities won't let you in, the airline is responsible for repatriating you. They won't take the chance.

Instead, buy a full-fare, fully-refundable onward ticket to a neighboring country, like Cambodia or Singapore, and just cash it in when you arrive. It will be cheap, although it may take 60 days to get your refund. It will allow you to get a Tourist visa in advance, and save you far more than the several visa runs you will have to make in order to stay 90 days.

Be smart; think out of the box. You could fly to Siem Reap, and see Angkor Wat, send your passport to Phnom Penh for another single-entry Tourist visa (agents in Siem Reap do it routinely), and then stay another 90 days (60 + 30 extension). No return flight needed in that scenario.

Oh, and, pack light. Be ready to move quickly. Avoid possessions that you can't just walk away from.

Good luck.


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## visual effects editor

alexviseu said:


> Hey!
> 
> Sorry for the long delay. I actually just had my apartment broke into and my laptop stolen. Guess it's not just in Thailand that this kind of thing happens. Luckily I have insurance so I'll get it back eventually. I guess I'll need to make sure my travel insurance also includes theft of laptops before moving to Bangkok.
> *
> Sorry about your laptop.*
> 
> I will need to be extra careful while in Thailand. Here in Portugal I was able to get my old desktop to work while I wait for the insurance company to reimburse me my stolen laptop, but I wouldn't be able to do it while in Thailand. And I do need it for work.
> 
> Aside from renting an apartment in a relatively safe neighborhood (in terms of house break ins) is there anything else I can do to prevent theft? Are safes cheap and safe enough to secure a laptop while I'm out of the house? I don't want to walk around with my laptop all the time, and I would probably lose it or have it stolen even faster if I were to do that.
> 
> *The crime worry is a function of your wanting to live in a cheap apartment. If you rent a nicer place then security increases.
> *
> 
> As a back up, are low-end laptops cheap in Thailand?
> 
> *Yes*
> 
> And will they come with Thai characters on it?
> 
> *No, or if you want*
> 
> In the event I get my laptop stolen I'll need to replace it ASAP. So the most I know about that the better. I read there is a huge electronic/hardware building mall, anyone knows where in Bangkok it is located?
> *
> MBK Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> 
> Would living near a university make it safer or more unsafe in terms of house break ins?
> 
> *No, renting a nicer place will. *
> 
> The ED visa option seems really a good idea, and it kills two birds with one stone as I would be able to learn Thai and avoid visa runs. Which are two things I will definitely want to do if I eventually decide to stay long term.
> 
> 
> Scan your passport (all pages) and email it to yourself as a .pdf file. That way if you lose it you can access it over the web if your embassy need to look at it. Put a copy of the .pdf on your phone.
> Password protect your phone.
> 
> Don't give your passport to anyone for a deposit for a rental, like a scooter or anything else. Just give them cash money. Make sure you look at your passport it gets handed back to you every time to make sure it is yours. (this happened to me, wrong passport)
> 
> Change your ATM password to four numbers. I have been told Thai banks have a problem with greater than four number codes.
> 
> Change your ATM password after you leave Thailand.
> 
> Set up with your bank if you can to email you alerts for every transaction. ATM card cloning is happening big time in Thailand so monitor your account that is linked to your ATM card.
> 
> Try not to use credit cards for little things or at all. Tell your credit card company you are going to Thailand.
> 
> Exchange Euros at the airport when you get off the plane. Ask for some 100 baht bills.
> 
> If you give someone a 1000 baht bill (very common) make sure you point to the 1000 and see that they know you know it is 1000 not 100.
> 
> I would book a hotel on line for the first few nights, have the name
> and address on a piece of paper with a simple map for the cab driver.
> 
> Agoda.com has the best prices for hotels in Asia and a app for booking on line. It is great.
> 
> Don't forget to tie your shoes.
> 
> and you are going to have a great time.


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## Sateev

Agree with most of the above poster's comments. Would add Pantip on Petchburi Rd. in Pratunam as the single best IT shopping area in Thailand, best selection and prices. MBK is more cellphone and misc department store stuff. Other good areas for tech stuff are Fortune Town (off the MRT at Praram 9), and Zeer in Rangsit.

Laptops are generally MORE expensive in Thailand than in Western countries, however, and most WILL come with both Thai and English characters on the keyboard. Never seen a Thai-only input device...

Especially agree with the security observations: living in a super-cheap place (including university student populated areas) will increase the likelihood that you will get ripped off. Still, there are places reasonably near the MRT in the 5-7000 baht range that have key card entry, and 24hr security. Where I lived, it was 4500/month, on a dead-end street (no traffic passing by at all hours), and I kept my fairly high-end motorcycle outside, and a ton of goodies in my apartment, with never a single issue. There was a loud-barking dog, and a security guy in the parking lot from dusk to dawn...look around the Ladprao/Ratchadapisek intersection and MRT station for reasonably safe and convenient smaller apartments. Walk the sois - they are there.

Cheers.


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## alexviseu

Hey. Thanks for all your replies. 

Regarding the budget, if I need to spend 7000 baht or so a month to greatly diminish the chance of getting robbed, so be it. Still way cheaper than anywhere in Portugal anyway. 

My "plan" is to rent a hotel room for a couple of days (well, however much time it takes really) while I physically search for a home. Thinking in dropping a visit to the local real estate companies and check for rentals in good areas and good security. Having a previous idea of what is good and what is not is certainly going to help out. With any luck I'll be able to find a decent place, not too expensive and relatively secure, which will allow me to rent for a minimum of 3 months or so.

Knowing I will not be stuck with a Thai only keyboard in the event I have to replace my laptop is great news. 

Portuguese ATM is also 4 digits so I should be fine. Also I'm not planning on using the credit card for anything other than buying flight tickets.

A refundable ticket is actually a pretty good idea. I might do just that. I'm estimating maybe going to Japan around September/October, which is when the weather is usually nicer over there, so I wouldn't need to renew anything during my first stay, and then going back to Thailand from Japan by plane would allow me to stay in Thailand up until Christmas with minimal visa issues.

And if refundable tickets are a problem I might just get a low-cost flight to wherever nearby.

Also thanks for the countless comments and tips you guys are giving me. I really hope I do indeed get to have a great time in Thailand.

kob kun mak krab (my first words in Thai )


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## visual effects editor

Yes Pantip.

Pantip Plaza Bangkok - IT Malls


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## Bundy

I follow this thread with interest, since I have similar plans.
I also read a lot about thailand and will give you the following advice:

Consider using airbnb(dot)com instead of hotel and stay with a family, you can even find English-speaking families, they will be able to help you in daily life if problems arise (for free). Then you do not need to spend money to rent Internet and the apartment is probably in a fairly safe area already.
usually you can get 50% discount if you rent a room for a month.

Since you can work virtually anywhere, consider Chiang Mai instead of Bangkok, everything is 30% cheaper there ... and still a great city.

Just my 5 cents


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