# Black Points



## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm after a bit of advice! I've only been in the UAE for just under a year, and I wasn't aware of exactly how the black point system worked (my fault for not checking, I know) so when I went to look into how I renew my car registration, it turns out that I have a significant number of Black Points (more than 40 from what I can make out) that I wasn't aware of.

They're all of the 12-point variety, for travelling 60km over the speed limit - I travel from Dubai to Abu Dhabi every day, so I have a feeling that they have mainly been accrued on Yas Island, as they're listed as Abu Dhabi Police on the Dubai Police website.

I stupidly assumed that if I did anything that was likely to cause me problems with my licence, the police would contact me; the last points were accrued in June, but I have received no notifications whatsoever. In fact, the Dubai Police website only has 20 of the points listed against my licence - the rest are listed against the car registration.

So, my question is, has anyone else fallen foul of this type of situation, and if so, what are the options? I know that 'officially' you can buy 8 black points back, but in reality, can this number be increased? 

I realise that I'm likely to have my car impounded and lose my licence, and will obviously have to pay the fines, but what is the best way to approach the situation? Should I instruct a solicitor to act on my behalf, or should I try to get a local Emirati to go to the police station with me?

Any help appreciated!

Scott.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

The best approach is clearly to stop driving like a lunatic. 

Other than that, I have no idea.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

You don't need a local with you, go yourself, early, explain the situation, be really apologetic etc. and maybe you'll get a discount at least. 40+ fines of 12 points is pretty bad situation though, if it was 1 or 2 then they might be lenient, but i think you'll be lucky to get any discount - however if you don't ask you won't get. Isn't it mandatory that after each number of points, I think it's 24 or so but not sure, then your car gets impounded for a month and you're banned for a year? If you have many times that then you're going to be taxiing for a while (you can't rent a car with your UK license if you're banned with your UAE one).

Hope you learned your lesson, if it was me in your situation I'd go there on my own and be really apologetic, however I'm sure they'll want to take you to court as it's so excessive, you could easily be looking at some time too.


Edited to add, I'd get a lawyer mate, each 12 point fine includes a 30 day vehicle impound and a 30 day driving ban, so that's over 3 years!

Re lawyers, contact this woman, she works closely with English lawyers in the UAE and can give you the best advice (for free).


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

The Rascal said:


> You don't need a local with you, go yourself, early, explain the situation, be really apologetic etc. and maybe you'll get a discount at least. 40+ fines of 12 points is pretty bad situation though, if it was 1 or 2 then they might be lenient, but i think you'll be lucky to get any discount - however if you don't ask you won't get. Isn't it mandatory that after each number of points, I think it's 24 or so but not sure, then your car gets impounded for a month and you're banned for a year? If you have many times that then you're going to be taxiing for a while (you can't rent a car with your UK license if you're banned with your UAE one).
> 
> Hope you learned your lesson, if it was me in your situation I'd go there on my own and be really apologetic, however I'm sure they'll want to take you to court as it's so excessive, you could easily be looking at some time too.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Have you read the first post properly?
He may only have 40 points - not 40 x 12 points!
If so, then situation is not so bad!
Cheers
Steve


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Have you read the first post properly?
> He may only have 40 points - not 40 x 12 points!
> If so, then situation is not so bad!
> ...


Early morning, no coffee, 24 points is still a month ban and impoundment so not a good position, but significantly better! LOL


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## iggles (Jan 4, 2015)

Scott123 said:


> They're all of the 12-point variety, for travelling 60km over the speed limit - I travel from Dubai to Abu Dhabi every day, so I have a feeling that they have mainly been accrued on Yas Island, as they're listed as Abu Dhabi Police on the Dubai Police website.


So you were doing 200km? 

Which bit of this sign did you not understand, the English, or the number, or the camera sign










Zero sympathy from me, as your probably one of those dicks flashing his lights at me, aggressively informing me that I am not good enough to drive in front of you. Putting me in danger, other drivers in danger - whilst we are the ones going the legal speed limit.


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## asih7262 (Jul 30, 2015)

glad i came across this post bc i move to dubai in 2 weeks, ever since I recieved my license years ago, I've always had a sport car, always raced and had a lead foot here in NY, have had probably over 100 encounters with police and countless tickets & fines , but have been lucky enough to have a close uncle with a high rank in the police that has saved my a** more than a few times ...without him I would have no license right now ....that being said , w.o this luxury with me in Dubai , the best thing for me is to buy a vespa


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

asih7262 said:


> glad i came across this post bc i move to dubai in 2 weeks, every since I have gotten my license I have always had a sport car, always raced and had a lead foot here in NY, have had probably over 100 encounters with police and countless tickets & fines , but have been lucky enough to have a close uncle with high rank in the police that has saved my a** more than a few times ...without him I would have no license right now ....that being said , w.o this luxury with me in Dubai , the best thing for me is to buy a vespa


Oh that's all we need, another self confessed racer on the public roads, it's not as if there aren't enough already....


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

The Rascal said:


> Oh that's all we need, another self confessed racer on the public roads, it's not as if there aren't enough already....


It might be a lesson well learnt if he actually gets a Vespa and rides around on that. Won't last long...


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

Thanks for the replies that are actually offering advice - definitely not 40 fines with 12 points each, but I have accumulated over 40 black points for 60km over the speed limit (which is 120 btw, not 140 - that's the radar limit)

And no, I wasn't driving up people's backsides flashing my lights - for anyone that has every driven over Yas/Sadiyat island, you'll know that it's 6 lanes of new tarmac that is VERY lightly used, so only travelling over 180 when safe, although I know that's not an excuse. Please do keep your negative comments to yourself though, as trying to get advice, not trolled by sad individuals.

Scott.


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## notdave (Jul 11, 2015)

Perhaps you should just explain to them how their silly speed limits shouldn't apply to safe drivers like you...


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## iggles (Jan 4, 2015)

Scott123 said:


> Thanks for the replies that are actually offering advice - definitely not 40 fines with 12 points each, but I have accumulated over 40 black points for 60km over the speed limit (which is 120 btw, not 140 - that's the radar limit)
> 
> And no, I wasn't driving up people's backsides flashing my lights - for anyone that has every driven over Yas/Sadiyat island, you'll know that it's 6 lanes of new tarmac that is VERY lightly used, so only travelling over 180 when safe, although I know that's not an excuse. Please do keep your negative comments to yourself though, as trying to get advice, not trolled by sad individuals.
> 
> Scott.


I drive that route weekly going to Yas Mall, the camera's and signs are clearly visible. It's also very bumpy, and you have to account for the winds from the sea. The wind surfers are the clue that it's windy. You are still going 60km over the speed limit, lets say its at 180km in our language that is 111mph. 

If you were in the UK would you drive at 111mph? So why do you think its acceptable here? 

It's not sad individual, its reckless drivers like your self that take a 30 minute journey home into 2 hours.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Scott123 said:


> so only travelling over 180 when safe, although I know that's not an excuse. Please do keep your negative comments to yourself though, as trying to get advice, not trolled by sad individuals.
> 
> Scott.


1. 180kmh isn't safe. What you say is what killers say just before they kill someone. 

2. The roads around here would be much safer without you on it. Face that fact.

3. The advice is not to drive like a ****head, which you still don't appear to accept.

Best advice is to stop driving until you can behave like an adult.


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## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

Scott123 said:


> Thanks for the replies that are actually offering advice - definitely not 40 fines with 12 points each, but I have accumulated over 40 black points for 60km over the speed limit (which is 120 btw, not 140 - that's the radar limit)
> 
> And no, I wasn't driving up people's backsides flashing my lights - for anyone that has every driven over Yas/Sadiyat island, you'll know that it's 6 lanes of new tarmac that is VERY lightly used, so only travelling over 180 when safe, although I know that's not an excuse. Please do keep your negative comments to yourself though, as trying to get advice, not trolled by sad individuals.
> 
> Scott.


*Troll*: someone who ​leaves an ​intentionally ​annoying ​message on the internet, in ​order to get ​attention or ​cause ​trouble.

That's not the case here, you are being correctly informed that you are a hazard to other road users.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Ugh....I hope they take your license away. One less bad driver on the road to worry about!


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

What are you expecting from us? Someone to get you off the charges or sympathy?

You're not going to get much sympathy to be honest. Cough up the fine, surrender your car and licence if you have to. Talk to the police, not an internet forum.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

asih7262 said:


> glad i came across this post bc i move to dubai in 2 weeks, ever since I recieved my license years ago, I've always had a sport car, always raced and had a lead foot here in NY, have had probably over 100 encounters with police and countless tickets & fines , but have been lucky enough to have a close uncle with a high rank in the police that has saved my a** more than a few times ...without him I would have no license right now ....that being said , w.o this luxury with me in Dubai , the best thing for me is to buy a vespa


Best thing for you would be no licence and a dose of reality


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Just for comparison, if the OP were at home, it would be an automatic ban for 12 months or so, retake test most likely and significantly increased insurance premiums.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Worse than that, once you hit 180 it's classed as racing, big, big fines (especially if a regular problem), then it's a jail term and deport. I hope he get's a lawyer and learns his lesson.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

There's parts of saadiyat highway where the limit is 100, possibly less on the junctions and stuff, so maybe not fines from doing 180+


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

Thanks TwoWheelsGood - I completely understand that is the logical interpretation of the situation, and I'm fully prepared for that... It's just proving very difficult to get any realistic information on similar scenarios, as things don't always follow the obvious path out here, as I'm sure you're aware!

I've tried speaking to a solicitor, asking locals that I work with, and now forums, but there just seems to be no relevant information to hand.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

Should also ask for the photo evidence, it's not uncommon for some folks to use fake number plates. Unlikely but worth a check just in case given severity of it


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Count yourself lucky you're here and not in certain European countries...
Perhaps UAE should introduce a salary based fine system? 

https://www.thrillist.com/rides/the-most-expensive-and-biggest-speeding-tickets-ever


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

Thanks RacingGoat - somebody else said that; I'm prepared to take responsibility for anything that I have done, it doesn't hurt to check that the information is correct, especially out here!


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## iggles (Jan 4, 2015)

QOFE said:


> You seem to have learnt a lesson or two?


didn't get any fines out in Finland nor UK. 

I got one here though on my hire car, but it wasn't me.

1st day working for my company. Thing is I had a driver for the first week. But I have no proof to prove it other wise. (emails etc etc)


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I drive to AD from Dubai daily.

You were still doing 180km, which is way too fast, even if there aren't too many cars around. I know what you mean about Yas being fairly empty. But the point is that at 180km you are still driving dangerously and without consideration of other drivers. Iggles is justified in being indigent. 

I drive around 145km and have been doing so all year and never have had a speeding ticket nor a black point.

I'll remind people (not for your benefit but for others) that the main speed traps are by the Deerfield Mall to the Yas exit, where the speed limit drops suddenly by 20km, and from Yas onto Saadiyat, where it also drops another 20km. 

As for you, the only thing that might be in your favour is that there's often a reduction on the fines announced once a year. But if you have to register your car, you're out of luck. Fork over the money and accept the ban. Find a taxi driver to take you to work although it might be cheaper to stay in a hotel in AD for a month.



Scott123 said:


> Thanks for the replies that are actually offering advice - definitely not 40 fines with 12 points each, but I have accumulated over 40 black points for 60km over the speed limit (which is 120 btw, not 140 - that's the radar limit)
> 
> And no, I wasn't driving up people's backsides flashing my lights - for anyone that has every driven over Yas/Sadiyat island, you'll know that it's 6 lanes of new tarmac that is VERY lightly used, so only travelling over 180 when safe, although I know that's not an excuse. Please do keep your negative comments to yourself though, as trying to get advice, not trolled by sad individuals.
> 
> Scott.


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

TallyHo said:


> As for you, the only thing that might be in your favour is that there's often a reduction on the fines announced once a year.


Actually in AD there is a "permanent" 50% discount on fines if paid within a few months. (so the min. speeding fine is 600, as in Dubai, but reduces to 300 after the discount). How long the fine remains discounted, I am not sure.


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## Desert_Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

TallyHo said:


> As for you, the only thing that might be in your favour is that there's often a reduction on the fines announced once a year.


They've stopped the Ramadan reduction for fines in Dubai.

Dubai police rule out reduction in traffic fines | The National


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

R Sinner/Desert Ed,

Apologies, but the main point of my post has been lost with all the unnecessary chatter - to summarise, I'm not trying to get out of paying fines or facing the consequences, as I realise that I've messed up and that I have to take responsibility, what I'm after is any relevant advice as to how I should approach the situation, as this can have profound effects on the outcome out here, as with lots of things, not just speeding violations.

I've tried to contact a solicitor, but nobody seems to know anything about this sort of thing, which surprises me, as there are a lot worse drivers than me out there committing far more serious violations, but there you have it... 

I was wondering if I should speak to one of my local Emirati contacts and ask them to accompany me when I go to speak to the police, as that may at least ensure that nothing is lost in translation etc. 

No problems if nobody can offer any constructive advice, but I figured posting a question on a forum would be one place worth a try.


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## Desert_Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

Scott123 said:


> Apologies, but the main point of my post has been lost with all the unnecessary chatter - to summarise, I'm not trying to get out of paying fines or facing the consequences, as I realise that I've messed up and that I have to take responsibility, what I'm after is any relevant advice as to how I should approach the situation, as this can have profound effects on the outcome out here, as with lots of things, not just speeding violations.


Scott,

I didn't add any further comments because I didn't have anything constructive to say. I think you're being sincere, so I won't add to the bashing you've already received.

I was merely trying to point out to others on the forum that the reduction in fines has been stopped by the Dubai police because it didn't help with their policy of trying to reduce the number of accidents.

Desert Ed


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

Scott123 said:


> R Sinner/Desert Ed,
> 
> Apologies, but the main point of my post has been lost with all the unnecessary chatter - to summarise, I'm not trying to get out of paying fines or facing the consequences, as I realise that I've messed up and that I have to take responsibility, what I'm after is any relevant advice as to how I should approach the situation, as this can have profound effects on the outcome out here, as with lots of things, not just speeding violations.
> 
> ...


You don't need a lawyer. First, go to AD traffic police. Just go with an Emirati or at the very least an Arabic speaker. Plead your case and try for a discount. Pay the fine. They may then redirect you to the RTA for impounding the car and/or paying the fine. If they dont tell you anything, just stay put till the time of re-registration.

PS: Driving 60 kmph above the speed limit when other cars are driving at or below the speed limit (sometimes up to 60 km below the enforced limit) in the left most or the 2nd lane is still dangerous because of the sheer variability in speed. I do take that road often, and even if it has light traffic, there are always cars around. And it not "new" - the road has been around since 2009. Plus there are areas where there are "bumps" when you get on and off a bridge.

Edited to add: Read up some of the links on abudhabi.ae e.g. https://www.abudhabi.ae/portal/publ...ate=3cfg10bwj_122&_afrLoop=10130642373593814#!

Since you have a Dubai car it may not be applicable though. You will have to rely on trial and error


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## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

I remembered reading something about the 100's of different violations you can commit and the differing fines, found this by Google:
Rules of Black Points on Driving License from RTA and Dubai Police

According to that any more than 24 black points in a year you get a years ban. 

The 8 points buy back is only available in Dubai, so if offences were in Abu Dhabi then it looks like you can't do it. I think I remember reading something before that you need white points to trade these off against anyway, do you have any of those? You also pay a fine to remove the 8 points. 

Exceeding maximum speed limit by more than 60km/h = 1000AED fine, 12 points 30 day car confiscation. 

So, from the link, you're looking at 4000AED fine (at least), 120 day car confiscation and a two year ban? Presuming that all the points were accrued through doing more than 60km/h over the limit. 

Just as a point of reference, you get the same amount of points for killing someone while driving as you do by speeding 60km/h over the limit. Not looking to beat you with that or anything, but I found it interesting.


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

DesertEd - no problems, just wanted to reiterate my main point, as wasn't sure if it was obvious anymore!


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

RSinner - that's very helpful, thank you!


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

WindSweptDragon - likewise - very helpful, so thank you! 

I completely accept that the consequences will likely include lost licence, car impounded, and heavy fines - just want to go prepared, so I don't make a bad situation any worse!


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Scott123 said:


> WindSweptDragon - likewise - very helpful, so thank you!
> 
> I completely accept that the consequences will likely include lost licence, car impounded, and heavy fines - just want to go prepared, so I don't make a bad situation any worse!


Hi,
If you think you are getting fines on Yas highway - I hope you realize that they use hidden speed traps, in addition to the overt cameras.
I go that way each day to drop my son at school on Saadiyat and I have seen three speed traps in the last week alone.
Cheers
Steve


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## Scott123 (Oct 14, 2015)

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply! I certainly do now! Somebody mentioned that to me the other week, but I hadn't seen any myself (obviously) so wasn't aware up until that point...


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## asih7262 (Jul 30, 2015)

Racing_Goats said:


> Best thing for you would be no licence and a dose of reality


and out come the safety rangers ...underground racing is huge where I am from, its a normal thing here if you have a sport car that you street at least on occasion ...this doesn't mean at 4 pm in normal traffic ..that is stupid , & not even racing at all just a waste of gas ...ive been with my car club for 6 yrs, all ferraris, lambos, AMG, porsche, etc ...over 500 members, when we race it is during the wee hours of the night on the beach highways where there are no cars overnight..this is when we go fast ...6 years with my club, countless races, we've NEVER had a single incident ...i just keep that statistic in my mind when the safety rangers aka prius drivers start preaching ...speed limit is 50 mph on the highway, alot of my encounters with traffic police are for cruising along at 70 mph , not exactly lightning speed nor illegal in dubai ..all very relative...also for seatbelt, tints too dark, exhaust to loud, other nonsense..traffic laws here are only designed to generate maximum revenue for the government, so though i've had many encounters with police, its for BS, which why having a family member in the police, they usually just say have a nice day and I'm on my way, bc the police officers themselves know that it is BS...if you get pulled over for actually doing something crazy, who you know will not matter at all, u will still get in a load of trouble. 

that being said, since I don't have any connection in dubai and also I know there are cameras littering the roadways in dubai, I plan to drive like a grandma & within the law to the T as my goal here is not to accumulate a mountain of fines or lose my license. 
just thought i'd share, an interesting thing, over 50% of the highways in Germany has no speed limit yet they have a lower highway accident rate & fatality rate than most other countries ....its all relative


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

Racing on the roads places a lot of trust in the drivers around you, do you trust the reactions of your average Dubai driver texting on Whatsapp while driving? 

You can race as much as you like at the autodrome, please keep it there. Bumps, crappy surfaces and oil make roads a terrible place to race, you'll get far more out of a car on a track surface.

And I'm not some nanny state Prius driver, I was in a sportscar club in the UK and our cars would run rungs around the Ferraris, Porsches and poser-mobiles that would turn up to track days. We strictly wouldn't race on public roads because who wants to write off a car you built yourself? With no ABS or electronic gizmos to sort out your bad driving habits and your butt a couple of inches from the floor in car with no doors, you don't half feel vulnerable and drive defensively because if there is a crash, you're coming off worse.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

asih7262 said:


> just thought i'd share, an interesting thing, over 50% of the highways in Germany has no speed limit yet they have a lower highway accident rate & fatality rate than most other countries ....its all relative


Hi,
I would like you to revisit your quote above - once you have lived here for 6 months and experienced the general driving standards that exist here!
I guarantee you will see the most amazing and unbelievable crashes, near misses and odd driving that will make your hair stand on end!
Cheers
Steve


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

Putting aside safety for a moment...at home you had a 'get out of jail free card'. When you came here, you knew you didn't. Surely, you would have considered that fact (note, I use the word 'fact', not 'factor')?


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## shaunfella (Jul 1, 2013)

asih7262 said:


> glad i came across this post bc i move to dubai in 2 weeks, ever since I recieved my license years ago, I've always had a sport car, always raced and had a lead foot here in NY, have had probably over 100 encounters with police and countless tickets & fines , but have been lucky enough to have a close uncle with a high rank in the police that has saved my a** more than a few times ...without him I would have no license right now ....that being said , w.o this luxury with me in Dubai , the best thing for me is to buy a vespa


Or you could buy any car you like and drive respectfully.

Too much like common sense?

sent from my porridge powered deep fried haggis device


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

shaunfella said:


> Or you could buy any car you like and drive respectfully.
> 
> Too much like common sense?
> 
> sent from my porridge powered deep fried haggis device


Common sense is not so common out here Shaun. Out here we have a bunch of egomaniacs who are pretty much nobodies back home pretending to be Dominic Toretto an Brian O'connor on the streets of Dubai (or Abu Dhabi)


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## T'challa_Udaku (Nov 14, 2014)

pamela0810 said:


> Common sense is not so common out here Shaun. Out here we have a bunch of egomaniacs who are pretty much nobodies back home pretending to be Dominic Toretto an Brian O'connor on the streets of Dubai (or Abu Dhabi)


Hahaha best post of the day


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

If you wish to post the sort of childish comments I've just removed, then find a childrens forum

Jo


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