# Wills



## cab65

Hi, do I need to make a will in Portugal as well as In the UK. I have properties in both places and am not a resident of Portugal


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## canoeman

If your not a Resident then you make a UK will, including Portuguese property.

Portugal accepts UK wills and division of estate, you do NOT have to follow Portuguese law on succession. 

Try if possible to avoid things like_ trusts_ as it is not an accepted form of inheritance and can cause complications.

Clearly identify beneficiaries, who if inheriting property or items like cars or money in Bank A/cs will reguire a Fiscal number to complete transfer of ownership.


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## dharmabum

I agree! 

You don't need to follow Portuguese law on this one.

Thumbs up for canoeman's reply!!!


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## siobhanwf

Canoeman bang on the financial mark as always :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## mrforja

Speaking from experience where as English institutions will except copy’s of wills death certificates etc. etc. in Portugal it had to be the originals.


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## dharmabum

I looked into the problem and found the Convention on the conflicts of laws relating to he form of testamentary dispositions. I'm not alowed to post links in the website yet. But just google Convention on the conflicts of laws relating to the form of testamentary dispositions (concluded 5 October 1961). You'll find a website HCCH

Maybe you can find a specific answer to your problem in the convention.


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## dharmabum

OMG

Just noticed that in my previous post if you google hcch you end up with somevery bad websites...

Instead type Hague Conference on Private International Law.

sorry for the mistake!


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## siobhanwf

Yep I know the years are advancng but OH has been asking about funeral costs and wills etc... MORBID person... I play to live forever 

So while googling I came up with this information

Facts regarding wills and probate in Portugal and why
it is beneficial to have a Portuguese Will. 

Wills in Portugal
a) Inheritance tax (imposto de selo) 0% between spouses or 'linha recta' parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren etc. otherwise 10%
b) Law regarding restrictions of inheritance e.g Portuguese can not disinherit spouse or children without special circumstances. Law of nationality applies e.g British free to dispose as they choose.
c) Portuguese will regarding Portuguese estate can be general- all assets including property, bank accounts, pensions, shares etc..
d) Better to have different wills for different countries, different legal systems and avoids confusion over taxation.
e) Portuguese wills different to British wills as they are formal, drawn up at the notary with 2 independent witnesses and a translator if not fluent in the language. Also it MUST be by the Notary not an assistant, the original is deposited and you can not be given copies except to the will maker or upon production of a death certificate. It can be revoked and do a new one.
f) After death, the lawyer will check with the central registration for any deposited wills and latest valid one.
g) Depositing a British will can be done at a notary but you are unable to get a copy unless death occurs.
h) A British will is valid but can cause delays and extra expenses, probate.

Probate
a) Must be submitted to Financas (tax office) by cabeca do casal (spouse or beneficiary, normally eldest but can be closest geographically) by the end of the 3rd month following the date of death. Must include a list of assets.
b) Then comes "escritura de habilitacao", at a notary estate can be divided (partilha) or in common for beneficiaries
c) Which can then be registered in common name of the inheritors for onward sale.
d) Quite complicated and if not fluent in the language with a reasonable knowledge of the system better to get a lawyer involved.
e) Probate can be carried out by lawyer with respective power of attorney.

Funeral Plans Portugal, SPN Funeral Plans

It is a site recommended by AFPOP


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## canoeman

Just a couple of furher points a 
e) you can make a Will before a Notary that is *not* registered at the Central registry, therefore cheaper, the Will is Notarized and returned to you. 

g,h) A UK Will has to be Probated in the UK *before* it is legal in Portugal and Portuguese probate can commence. See Probate a)

Inheritors will reguire Fiscal Numbers

My information is different to yours in that a Portuguese Notary can only handle/Notarize documents in Portuguese and not in any other language.


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## siobhanwf

canoeman said:


> Just a couple of furher points a
> e) you can make a Will before a Notary that is *not* registered at the Central registry, therefore cheaper, the Will is Notarized and returned to you.
> 
> g,h) A UK Will has to be Probated in the UK *before* it is legal in Portugal and Portuguese probate can commence. See Probate a)
> 
> Inheritors will reguire Fiscal Numbers
> 
> My information is different to yours in that a Portuguese Notary can only handle/Notarize documents in Portuguese and not in any other language.



Thanks canoeman. guess the site wasn`t as up to date as I thought it was


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## moggy666

canoeman said:


> Just a couple of furher points a
> e) you can make a Will before a Notary that is *not* registered at the Central registry, therefore cheaper, the Will is Notarized and returned to you.
> 
> g,h) A UK Will has to be Probated in the UK *before* it is legal in Portugal and Portuguese probate can commence. See Probate a)
> 
> Inheritors will reguire Fiscal Numbers
> 
> My information is different to yours in that a Portuguese Notary can only handle/Notarize documents in Portuguese and not in any other language.


I have been talking to my Portuguese solicitor on this very subject yesterday and I have been told that:

1. A UK Will is valid in Portugal but must be professionally translated to Portuguese and then certified by a solicitor as a true copy. The cost i was given for mine and my wife's will was €250 - €300 for the translation and certification. All assets, both Portuguese and UK can be included in the will.

2. A Portuguese will can be prepared in Portuguese by a solicitor, Our solicitor also supplies all the documents in English for us :clap2:, but can only be drawn up and officiated by the Notary. The cost for this is approximately €300 Each.

lane:


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## canoeman

Yes but, there are a couple of other issues to consider, apart from your paying twice for the same service.
1. Unless that UK Will translated into Portuguese is* notarized* it must still be Probated in UK before Probate can commence here.

2. There is an inherent danger in translating a UK Will as there are two major things differences in Portuguese Law, which does* not* recognize* Trusts* or *Joint Tenancy * neither exist, anything held jointly will be held under tenancy in common, including immoveable property and bank accounts. The asset will, therefore, not pass automatically to the other joint owner.

3. Codicils don't exist in Portuguese Law, a new Will has to be made if there any changes.

4. Even a UK style Will either translated or made here with a Notary, still reguires on death to be *proven* as legal under UK Law, and requires further Certification by a Recognized UK Lawyer.

For a *Resident* as far as I'm aware UK assets don't form part of Portuguese Probate, and a seperate UK Will should be in place to cover those assets.
A Non Resident should have a UK Will and a Portuguese Will to cover assets in Portugal, if the Portuguese assets where taxed then then that could be offset against any UK IHT on same assets.


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## robc

Would it not be simpler to have the will written, notarised and held in the country in which you reside but also to have a second will in any other country in which assets are held. (This being a "direct" copy/translation of the first will)


I do not believe that you cannot have multiple wills, just not able to have multiple wills in any one country.

Rob


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## canoeman

robc said:


> Would it not be simpler to have the will written, notarised and held in the country in which you reside but also to have a second will in any other country in which assets are held. (This being a "direct" copy/translation of the first will)
> 
> 
> I do not believe that you cannot have multiple wills, just not able to have multiple wills in any one country.
> 
> Rob


If your a proven Non UK Resident for IHT, then you needn't mention Portuguese assets in UK Will. 
It's just your bracket sentence that's could cause confusion or not maybe make the best of asset disposal i.e. your UK Will could have Trusts, Trustees, joint tenancy, Codicils.


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## robc

canoeman said:


> If your a proven Non UK Resident for IHT, then you needn't mention Portuguese assets in UK Will.
> It's just your bracket sentence that's could cause confusion or not maybe make the best of asset disposal i.e. your UK Will could have Trusts, Trustees, joint tenancy, Codicils.



Yes I see what you mean.

Sometimes it is better to re-read carefully. 

I would not want to knowingly confuse.

Rob


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