# Marrying in UK without fiance visa?



## Aliana

Hello everyone, 

This is NOT about me  

I met someone who was looking for help online regarding getting married in UK as a tourist. I told her she couldn't because that's what I have read on the UKBA page that you can't (I have also read it here and on Yahoo answers). 

However an immigration solicitor has told her she actually can because her fiancé proposed out of the blue and if it was an unplanned situation you "can get married in UK'. He told her she could go back to her country and applied for a spouse visa and come back. Now they have gone to the register office and they approved the application.  

So I am confused, can you or can't you? Will she have any consequences when applying for her spouse visa and try to settle in UK? It worries me a bit for this couple.

Thanks


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## Joppa

Aliana said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This is NOT about me
> 
> I met someone who was looking for help online regarding getting married in UK as a tourist. I told her she couldn't because that's what I have read on the UKBA page that you can't (I have also read it here and on Yahoo answers).
> 
> However an immigration solicitor has told her she actually can because her fiancé proposed out of the blue and if it was an unplanned situation you "can get married in UK'. He told her she could go back to her country and applied for a spouse visa and come back. Now they have gone to the register office and they approved the application.
> 
> So I am confused, can you or can't you? Will she have any consequences when applying for her spouse visa and try to settle in UK? It worries me a bit for this couple.


This is a complicated situation and I'm not surprised that you and your friend are confused.

Under UK's marriage law, a tourist can get legally married. But under the immigration rules, non-EEA citizen wishing to marry and then leave UK will have to get marriage visitor visa, which has to be obtained in advance. This alpplies to all regardless of whether they need a visitor visa (i.e. visa and non-visa nationals).

What the solicitor said is also (partly) true. The rules say that you cannot enter UK as a general visitor with the intention of getting married. But if someone decides to have a quick marriage after entering UK, there's nothing to stop them.

Register offices have to follow marriage law but it's not their job to enforce immigration rules. Some registrars refuse to proceed with legal preliminaries to a marriage (giving notice etc) without seeing an appropriate visa in the non-EEA citizen's passport. Others are less concerned.

To marry and then to stay on (settle) in UK, fiancé(e) visa is essential. Without it, the non-EEA spouse has to leave UK and apply for spouse visa from their country of residence.


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## Aliana

Thanks Joppa, 

so from what I am understanding she can get married without the visa and go back to her country and apply for a spouse visa without any consequences?


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## AnAmericanInScotland

To add to what Joppa has written-I was here in the UK on a visitor visa when I married my Scottish husband, but the Registrar interviewed us at length before agreeing. She was very nice about it but she was very clear that she was not having any potential sham marriages or visa overstayers through her office. 

She was quickly satisfied that ours was a genuine relationship-we all live in a small town and she knew my husband-but she wanted to make sure I understood I must leave the UK and return to the US to apply for the spouse visa. She didn't ask for it, but she was happy to see my return ticket.

We did cut it a bit close, I left three days before my visitor visa was due to expire. Lol, when my husband got home from taking me to the airport there was a message on the answer phone from the UKBA wanting to know when I was leaving the UK per my expiry.

As to your question if marrying whilst on a visitor visa will be a problem when the UKBA reviews any application to return on the spouse visa-I received my spouse visa on 13th June (dated the 10th) and was back in the UK on 17th June.


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## Aliana

Thanks AnAmericanInScottland, that makes me calmer that this girl will not get into trouble for this decision. I kept telling her she couldn't do this but I am glad I was wrong somehow!

Have good day


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## Joppa

Aliana said:


> Thanks AnAmericanInScottland, that makes me calmer that this girl will not get into trouble for this decision. I kept telling her she couldn't do this but I am glad I was wrong somehow!


Each situation is different and while AAIS had no trouble, it doesn't mean the same for your friend.

She will have to stress that marrying in UK on tourist visa (leave) was unplanned, otherwise she would have got marriage visitor visa. A covering letter to that effect will probably satisfy ECO (visa officer), giving some background information about how she changed her mind and got married in UK when she did.


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## AnAmericanInScotland

Oh yes, absolutely what Joppa has just posted! 

When I wrote my letter for the spouse visa I think I actually worded it so that I apologised for the impetuous marriage, saying that we would have applied for the fiancee visa if we'd known we could actually share one tiny bathroom without constant rows before I came over on the visitor visa. 

That was the purpose of the visitor visa, you see We 'knew' we loved one another but when you've been on your own for so long (18 years for him and close to twelve for me), we also knew it's the little things like shared bathrooms and personal habits that really be a deal breaker-we wanted to be sure of that and so arranged for the visit. 

But after we'd been together for a few months, we knew we were indeed right in all the right ways, and so married whilst on the visitor visa. Somehow I managed to explain that in the short intro letter, apparently, because I did get the spouse visa approved.


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## lucillew

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> To add to what Joppa has written-I was here in the UK on a visitor visa when I married my Scottish husband, but the Registrar interviewed us at length before agreeing. She was very nice about it but she was very clear that she was not having any potential sham marriages or visa overstayers through her office.
> 
> She was quickly satisfied that ours was a genuine relationship-we all live in a small town and she knew my husband-but she wanted to make sure I understood I must leave the UK and return to the US to apply for the spouse visa. She didn't ask for it, but she was happy to see my return ticket.
> 
> We did cut it a bit close, I left three days before my visitor visa was due to expire. Lol, when my husband got home from taking me to the airport there was a message on the answer phone from the UKBA wanting to know when I was leaving the UK per my expiry.
> 
> As to your question if marrying whilst on a visitor visa will be a problem when the UKBA reviews any application to return on the spouse visa-I received my spouse visa on 13th June (dated the 10th) and was back in the UK on 17th June.


Hi there
I am in a similar situation to you were. I am inAustralia and my partner in LOndon. WE had both been living on our own and not in a relationship for several years before we met.For the 14 months we have been seeing each other I have travelled to LOndon to see him 3 times for a month and he has just left Australia after spending 6 weeks here. We simply cannot sustain the relatinship either financially or emotionally this way anymore - we have spent more than 6000 pounds on airfares and every successive good bye is more and more heartbreaking. We too would like to be sure if we could actually live with each other and as I have grown up children in Australia it will be a huge move for me to marry and move to the UK leaving behind an established life. We are hoping that I can come to the UK again on a visitor visa for 6 months so we can be sure and then marry while on the visitor visa. Applying for a visitor marriage visa would allow me to enter the UK for 6 months and marry however the requirement is that we have no intention of settling in the UK which is not the case and I would be scared that if we did that and I returned home to Australia tp apply for the spouse visa it would be rejected because of this. 
So I was very interested to hear that you can marry on a visitor visa and apparently not have that disadvantage your spouse visa application. 
However could you tell me how long you had to wait back in the US for your visa to be approved before you could return to the UK to be with your husband again?
Many thanks


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## AnAmericanInScotland

lucillew said:


> Hi there
> I am in a similar situation to you were. I am inAustralia and my partner in LOndon. WE had both been living on our own and not in a relationship for several years before we met.For the 14 months we have been seeing each other I have travelled to LOndon to see him 3 times for a month and he has just left Australia after spending 6 weeks here. We simply cannot sustain the relatinship either financially or emotionally this way anymore - we have spent more than 6000 pounds on airfares and every successive good bye is more and more heartbreaking. We too would like to be sure if we could actually live with each other and as I have grown up children in Australia it will be a huge move for me to marry and move to the UK leaving behind an established life. We are hoping that I can come to the UK again on a visitor visa for 6 months so we can be sure and then marry while on the visitor visa. Applying for a visitor marriage visa would allow me to enter the UK for 6 months and marry however the requirement is that we have no intention of settling in the UK which is not the case and I would be scared that if we did that and I returned home to Australia tp apply for the spouse visa it would be rejected because of this.
> So I was very interested to hear that you can marry on a visitor visa and apparently not have that disadvantage your spouse visa application.
> However could you tell me how long you had to wait back in the US for your visa to be approved before you could return to the UK to be with your husband again?
> Many thanks


Hi Lucillew!

When I married here on the visitor visa the rules hadn't been changed so drastically as they were on 9 July 2012. First of all, at the time, whilst difficult, it was possible to marry on a visitor visa as long as the registrar believed the non-UKC would do as promised-return to country of origin. With the changes I don't know if that's possible at all now.

I know the thought of leaping into the actual marriage without a lengthy 'can we really share a tiny bathroom' trial period is daunting. Using the link I posted below, look around carefully on the UKBA site, you may find that you can marry whilst here as long as you A-don't tell the border folks you might, and B-come fully prepared to get back on that plane even if you do marry-and that won't be easy, trust me!

I think, though, that the 'fiancee' visa is still available and actually the requirement is that you both intend the UK as your permanent residence. You'll need to carefully read the link I'm posting below, and be sure to check all of the information pages linked on the left-side navigation bar, but basically, according to these pages, you can apply (and pay a rather hefty fee) to come here on a 6 month visa, marry whilst here on that visa, and then apply for the Leave to Remain-with this visa you would not have to return to your 'home' country to apply to remain in the UK after the wedding-*but you must meet ALL of the requirements to apply for the fiancee visa.*

There are several 'flaming hoops' to leap through to achieve this, be sure to read each page line-by-line to be sure you are able to meet all of the requirements to apply. Stay calm (not easy, I know), take copious notes, and check-recheck-recheck again to be sure you A-understand all of the rules, and B-that you have all of the documents and financial ability to apply. 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/v...ns-settled/fiancee-proposed-cp/can-you-apply/

Because I didn't come over on the fiancee visa I did have to return to the US to apply for the Leave to Enter visa. I stayed with my adult son (poor guy!) four months  assembling all of the documents needed, and studying the rules to be sure I would not be wasting ££££+ in non-refundable fees. Holy moly was that a looooooong four months, and the waiting for an answer from UKBA NYC was the looooooooongest, most nerve-wracked '28 working days' (my timeline from application submittal to approval of the application) of my life. 

I returned to the UK mid-June 2011 and will be applying for the Leave to Remain visa in mid-May (can. not. wait!). Leaving the US was difficult because I have adult children and a grandchild as well-I do understand what you're going through and oh wow yes it is a HUGE move. But my son and grandson both said that at my age (I was only 53 when all this got started) I was too young to spend the rest of my life alone. They gave their full blessing and enjoy making visits to the UK.


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## lucillew

Thank you so much for your reply it is such a relief to find this forum. I was aware of the fiancee visa, it would have been ideal. Sadly we do not meet the new financial requirements as my partner has only been back in the workforce for 4 months after a much needed break after several years caring for his terminally ill partner. He is also only working part time so even if we waited another 2 months (6 months is required) he does not earn


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## AnAmericanInScotland

lucillew said:


> Thank you so much for your reply it is such a relief to find this forum. I was aware of the fiancee visa, it would have been ideal. Sadly we do not meet the new financial requirements as my partner has only been back in the workforce for 4 months after a much needed break after several years caring for his terminally ill partner. He is also only working part time so even if we waited another 2 months (6 months is required) he does not earn


Oh ouch, those new rules are something else, aren't they?! 

My husband had retired but went back to work when the new rules were being 'leaked' because we were afraid there wouldn't be a transitional arrangement and his pension income was only just at the rumoured amount. Luckily the transitional arrangement is very reasonable and we would have been fine without him going back to work...but to be honest he's a lot happier back in work, lol, and doesn't plan to retire again now until he's at the 'normal' retirement age. 

Does your partner have any savings? I believe there is a formula that permits combining pay (after six months in work) and savings-once he's been in work for six months will his savings (if any) be enough to combine with pay to meet the requirement?

I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but is there any chance he could emigrate to AU instead?


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## lucillew

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Oh ouch, those new rules are something else, aren't they?!
> 
> My husband had retired but went back to work when the new rules were being 'leaked' because we were afraid there wouldn't be a transitional arrangement and his pension income was only just at the rumoured amount. Luckily the transitional arrangement is very reasonable and we would have been fine without him going back to work...but to be honest he's a lot happier back in work, lol, and doesn't plan to retire again now until he's at the 'normal' retirement age.
> 
> Does your partner have any savings? I believe there is a formula that permits combining pay (after six months in work) and savings-once he's been in work for six months will his savings (if any) be enough to combine with pay to meet the requirement?
> 
> I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but is there any chance he could emigrate to AU instead?


Yes he has some savings, but the rules state that only the amount above 18600 pounds will be taken in to account.... you did not sound insensitive and him emigrating to Australia is an option. We were hoping however to spend a few years in LOndon before we did that as Australia is a long long way from anywhere and once you are here it can be very expensive.


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## AnAmericanInScotland

lucillew said:


> Yes he has some savings, but the rules state that only the amount above 18600 pounds will be taken in to account.... you did not sound insensitive and him emigrating to Australia is an option. We were hoping however to spend a few years in LOndon before we did that as Australia is a long long way from anywhere and once you are here it can be very expensive.


I know what you mean! We love AU and NZ, have several close friends in both countries and to be honest none of us can really afford to visit each other any time soon. Between the sky rocketing costs of living and the prices of travel, it's more and more out of reach.

Choosing which country to live in and when to do it is difficult. It took us about six months of discussion to decide on the UK, and that was before I came over on the 'trial run'.

We thought about my husband emigrating to the US because he doesn't have any children and all of his family has passed on-that's usually a real decider for people especially when there are adult children, and grandchildren from the other partner in a relationship. 

But after careful consideration we decided for our specific situation it was better for us to live in the UK. He's had cancer twice and while he has not had a recurrence since 2004 we knew we'd be in a really bad spot in the US if the cancer came back. While I was in the States applying for the spouse visa we had a real scare so the decision to live in the UK was the right one for us. This past summer he made the Ten Year celebration but his consultant says with his type of cancer that doesn't mean as much as we'd like it to. 

I'm 56 now. I have a small pension from the US (I'm a retired statistician) that pays my private health insurance (and not much else, LOL!) which is an important consideration at our age. In the States my husband wouldn't be able to get insurance, and my premiums were going to be nearly four times what I pay here in the UK. 

Does your partner have health concerns (apart from the 'normal' so-called joys of aging)? And does he have family here in the UK that might make emigrating a nearly impossible choice? Could he find work in AU if he wanted it? Has he looked into what his UK state pension options are if he emigrates? A private pension follows where ever but I'm not clear on state pensions.

So many things to consider!

My son is a chef and (thank-heavens) has a very good job-financially it's fairly easy for him to bring my grandson over every summer to visit. And truthfully it's less strain on him to travel than it is on me-wowsa is long haul travel wearing!


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## t_j_25

*UK-Gulf Marriage*



AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Oh ouch, those new rules are something else, aren't they?!


Hi all,
Appologies for resurrecting an old thread, but its slightly related to what I was hoping to ask.

So at 30 years of age, I meet my dream girl and propose to her on one knee at the top of a mountain at sunset. To my surprise she agrees to spend the rest of her life with crazy old me.

The trouble is (and I knew this before getting down on one knee), she comes from one of the Gulf countries. In these countries (UAE, Saudi, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain), citizens must seek permission from the government before marrying someone from outside the Gulf. 

Unfortunately earlier this week her application for permission was rejected as she is under 30 and her extenuating circumstances where not strong enough (sigh!). After panicking and losing a few nights sleep, I figured it was time to move onto plan B - marry in the UK.


We both work for the same company, and they have promised that they will do there best to find her a job in the UK, but that they don't recognise anything short of a marriage certificate before they can move this forward. She visits the UK every 3 months or so for meetings and training courses at work, and has never overstayed or caused any other concern to UKBA. 

So our plan was to get a Marriage Visit visa, she can then come here, get married, and return to Oman. She can then apply for a spouse visa, and at the same time inform her boss that we are now married so that he can start looking for her new position in the UK - all perfectly fine so far I hope.

Unfortunately there are 2 holes in our plan:
1) Our UK lawyers have told us that once she applies for a Marriage Visit Visa, this will supercede her Business Visitor Visa. So she will be unable to make any business trips to the UK until we get the spouse visa which I'm imagining could take 3-4 months. This may cause problems at work.

2) Once she gets the marriage visa, the local authorities may try to restrict her from leaving the country as it is clear on the visa that she is leaving in order to marry - which they have not approved. It's a long shot that the border police will pick it up and report it to the interior ministry, but if they do, then they may try to stop her from leaving indefinately.

So the only solutions I can come up with are
A) Marry with her existing business visit visa similar to what AnAmericanInScotland did. I have spoken to 3 registry offices. One said "impossible", one volunteered information to the effect of "we dont care what visa she has" and one said the same thing, but only after some leading questions. My concern with this option is it may jeopardise her chances of obtaining a spouse visa in the future. Our UK lawyers confirmed this is the case - but to be honest they just wanna make money out of us by getting as many visas as possible.

B) Bight the bullet. Apply for the visa. Hope it comes by June as thats when we were hoping to get married. And hope nobody in her home country picks it up when she is leaving.

FYI we meet all of the requirements for the Fiance/Spouse visa - we just opted for Marriage Visit instead of Fiance as it seems more likely we will get it by June.

Any help no matter how small , even just emotional support, would be vastly appreciated. And please feel free to ask any questions about the process of marriage to a foriegner in the gulf if anyone is facing a similar ordeal, or is just curious to know.


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## nyclon

As you are being advised by lawyers you should direct your questions to them.


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## t_j_25

Thanks for your prompt reply nyclon.
They are immigration lawyers, so thus far they have just been giving free advice. My worry is they have an alternative agenda... I.e getting us to do as many visa applications as possible so they can make money.

Any neutral perspectives would be greatly appreciated.


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## Joppa

What you are suggesting is that she elopes to UK to get married in defiance of her government. Even if she manages to get away, I think this will have a serious consequence for her. Does she have any family - parents and siblings in her native state - whom she wishes to keep in touch with and visit? What about her nationality - will they try to revoke it or put restrictions on her movement? Will she become a wanted criminal? While your desire to get married and settle together in UK is laudable, think very carefully about any consequences which may make her future life very difficult. I'd get legal advice from a lawyer in her country.


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## t_j_25

thanks for your quick reply Joopa!

I should have mentioned this in my original post -sorry.

While we were looking into getting married in her country, we contacted a couple of local lawyers. They both told us that it is preferable to obtain the permission. However if we get rejected, then we should get married outside the country. We can then go to the interior ministry and "confess" to having married without the permission. They will then give us a moderate fine (about £1000) and a slap on the hand. We can then ratify our marriage to get a local marriage certificate.

So I guess if I get a bit more specific about my questions, what I would love to know is:

1) How have the laws changed since the original post by AnAmericanInScotland. Is it still possible to marry without on a visitor visa?
2) Did who managed to get married on a visitor visa later manage to get a spouse visa - were any questions raised?
3) Do you think when we apply for our spouse visa they will take into consideration the 2 reasons I mentioned - i.e. having to continue working and not wanting to raise alarm bells when leaving her home country
4) Can anyone think of any other ideas which prevent us from breaching the terms of her current visa?

thanks so much guys - this is one of the most stressful experiences of my life and I don't know what I would do if I hadn't found all the posts which already exist on this forum.


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## AnAmericanInScotland

t_j_25 said:


> thanks for your quick reply Joopa!
> 
> I should have mentioned this in my original post -sorry.
> 
> While we were looking into getting married in her country, we contacted a couple of local lawyers. They both told us that it is preferable to obtain the permission. However if we get rejected, then we should get married outside the country. We can then go to the interior ministry and "confess" to having married without the permission. They will then give us a moderate fine (about £1000) and a slap on the hand. We can then ratify our marriage to get a local marriage certificate.
> 
> So I guess if I get a bit more specific about my questions, what I would love to know is:
> 
> 1) How have the laws changed since the original post by AnAmericanInScotland. Is it still possible to marry without on a visitor visa?
> 2) Did who managed to get married on a visitor visa later manage to get a spouse visa - were any questions raised?
> 3) Do you think when we apply for our spouse visa they will take into consideration the 2 reasons I mentioned - i.e. having to continue working and not wanting to raise alarm bells when leaving her home country
> 4) Can anyone think of any other ideas which prevent us from breaching the terms of her current visa?
> 
> thanks so much guys - this is one of the most stressful experiences of my life and I don't know what I would do if I hadn't found all the posts which already exist on this forum.


I wish I could offer more hope but for one thing the rules have changed drastically since I came over in 2010, and for another, more important thing - while we would have qualified under current rules, our situation is vastly different from yours. 

I am an American, your love is a citizen of a completely different country with laws that will make her a criminal if she marries you without permission.

Depending on her social status and political conditions current at the time you did this, this descent into criminality could have extremely serious consequences for her - to be honest I'm shocked to the core any reputable immigration advisor would suggest it would be smart and safe to sneak off, marry, and then present her local authorities with a fait accompli in hopes of 'gaining forgiveness rather than permission'.


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## ashkevron

Wow, that seems like an insane situation and I'm really sorry to hear about it  I wouldn't even think such things could happen and have no experience whatsoever but I'd imagine that if you decide to get married and then apply for a spouse visa, having a lot of paperwork will be beneficial for getting the spouse visa, though I may be completely wrong. Things like the letter where her request to get married was rejected because she is younger than 30, ideally a written report from one of the local lawyers in Oman, on a headed company paper with the stamp and everything, stating his advice (that you should get married in the UK and it will not be considered a criminal offence in Oman, but more of a civil offence for which you will be fined). Then a personal letter explaining the entire situation and included with her spouse visa application... 

I guess the UKBA won't really like the fact that you knew you were breaking the law, so to speak (is this even the law since she did not have to ask for permission to marry as far as I understand?) and also somewhat ignored the rule about the fiancee visa, but I am really, really hoping that UK and UKBA are sensible enough to understand the situation and not cause trouble, especially since you are meeting the financial and accommodation requirements. But, it IS risky. It's difficult to tell. Just as an idea... isn't it possible to get married in a third, neutral country for which she won't need a fiancee visa? It may be more complicated in the short run but I'd say once you've done that, you shouldn't have any other problems in the UK and the Oman should be fine as well if the local lawyers are correct?

Just wanted to add, Oman authorities possibly preventing her to travel indefinitely is also a huge risk, not only would she be in trouble with the authorities, but she may not be able to do her work any more, as it requires travel.


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## t_j_25

Thanks for your moral support guys. We really are deeply in love with each other and just want to spend the rest of our lives making each other happy. Its especially hard because I'm trying to be the strong one who supports her emotionally and promises her it will be ok, but in reality I sometimes don't know if this is going ot work out. I guess worst case scenario we have to be apart until shes 30 and can get approval.

Thanks for your suggestion ashkevron, not a bad idea at all. Do you have any ideas which countries make this kind of thing easy? I'm thinking places like Canada and Switzerland are usually very neutral and supportive.

How long does it usually take to get the Marriage visit visa? Is it unrealistic to try and get married in June? I had a look on the statistics section of the UKBA website, but couldn't see any section specifically for marriage visit visas - just settlement vs non-settlement.

Is it possible that the British consulate in her country reject giving a Mariage Visit Visa on the basis that she doesn't have permission from her government?

She is coming over for some meetings in 2 weeks, and I am inclined to go and register intent to marry. At least then she only has to come over once for the marriage minimising the chance that they ask any questions at the airport. Perhaps coming via a third country and booking the tickets seperately may also help as they then wont be looking to check she has a UK visa when she leaves?

Thanks again guys for the moral support guys and please keep us in your prayers.


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## fergie

t_j_25 said:


> Thanks for your moral support guys. We really are deeply in love with each other and just want to spend the rest of our lives making each other happy. Its especially hard because I'm trying to be the strong one who supports her emotionally and promises her it will be ok, but in reality I sometimes don't know if this is going ot work out. I guess worst case scenario we have to be apart until shes 30 and can get approval.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestion ashkevron, not a bad idea at all. Do you have any ideas which countries make this kind of thing easy? I'm thinking places like Canada and Switzerland are usually very neutral and supportive.
> 
> How long does it usually take to get the Marriage visit visa? Is it unrealistic to try and get married in June? I had a look on the statistics section of the UKBA website, but couldn't see any section specifically for marriage visit visas - just settlement vs non-settlement.
> 
> Is it possible that the British consulate in her country reject giving a Mariage Visit Visa on the basis that she doesn't have permission from her government?
> 
> She is coming over for some meetings in 2 weeks, and I am inclined to go and register intent to marry. At least then she only has to come over once for the marriage minimising the chance that they ask any questions at the airport. Perhaps coming via a third country and booking the tickets seperately may also help as they then wont be looking to check she has a UK visa when she leaves?
> 
> Thanks again guys for the moral support guys and please keep us in your prayers.


I don't think Going to Canada or. Switzerland would be any different re your marriage,
If your fiancé needs permission, or be over the age of 30, then those are her countries rules, and her countries government could cause problems wherever you married her.
Unfortunately some countries rules/religion still treat women like chattels, and as second class citizens.


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## t_j_25

Thanks Fergie,
I think you're right, the best bet is trying to get a visa and hope nobody notices/cares.

Yeah, the law sucks! But it would be the same if I was a man from the gulf marrying a woman from outside. 

I couldn't understand it for a long time because it goes against our religion. I kind of get it now though, the countries offer so many benefits to their citizens (free health care, free schooling, free university at home or abroad, free housing, gaurentees of a job or high state benefits if they dont find you a job etc etc) So they are basically paranoid about people coming just to mooch off the system.


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## Joppa

You can put the British consulate in a difficult position, by processing a visa for marriage without the approval of the host country, as it can develop into a diplomatic affair.


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## ashkevron

I don't really know anything about Oman, but as far as I can see there are two possible things:

1. Oman likes to be a bit bullish and controlling when it comes to their traditions but is in fact a reasonable country. Thus, they would refuse your girl's right to get married and make things difficult for her, but if she did get married, they would accept it, fine you and give you a slap on the wrist and everything will be fine. What your lawyers in Oman told you, may actually be how things are done in practice and Oman government is used to this. You should maybe check the precedents and make sure it does all go fine EVERY time. This I think is the most likely scenario. 

2. Oman every now and then likes to stamp its foot down and make an example if given a chance. Thus, if they catch your girl trying to elope, they may ban her from travelling, put her in prison, make an example out of her and basically destroy her life. If there is ANY chance of this, you should definitely not try and do anything against the law.

Regarding the visa for marriage (this is the first time I've heard of it), I think if the British consulate does not ask for the approval of the host country, then they should not make a problem. If they do ask for approval, then there is no point in her applying. 

I do not think that all laws of all countries are reasonable and should always be followed at all costs, but you need to make sure how grave the breaking of the law is going to be seen in the country. This is especially important because the one who will suffer for any problems is your girl, and not you. If all you need to do is wait for a couple of years until she is 30, that's not too bad. If however you need to wait for 6 more years, than I can see your motivation to do something sooner maybe justified, but I don't like the situation in which your girl is the one who is most at risk.


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## t_j_25

Thanks for your feedback ashkevron. You have hit the nail on the head with both points.
(And sorry for the delay in replying, I have been travelling, trying to look at options of doing this outside the UK).

We have since applied for her Marriage Visitor Visa, and we're waiting to see what happens.

Assuming we get it, we had been planning for her to visit the UK twice, once (for 9 days) to give notice, and once (over 15 days later) to get married. However, I learnt today that the process is much easier in Scotland, we can provide all the documents by post, and once of us might need to visit the registery office beforehand, but essentially she wont need to come until the marriage. My grandad is scottish, so I think this could work.

The down side is that they ask for more paperwork than in England, but I think its doable.


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