# Just decided to move to spain from London



## Jasmine Cross (May 27, 2010)

Hi all!!

My husband and I have just decided (today) to move to spain. We're thinking of Alicante. I have a dutch passport and my husband a South African one. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!!


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Hi all!!
> 
> My husband and I have just decided (today) to move to spain. We're thinking of Alicante. I have a dutch passport and my husband a South African one. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!!


might sound silly, but base evrything you do on YOUR nationality not hubby's. Get as much paperwork sorted before arriving (nie number is a must)


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## Jasmine Cross (May 27, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> might sound silly, but base evrything you do on YOUR nationality not hubby's. Get as much paperwork sorted before arriving (nie number is a must)


Thanks! We pretty much have everything as we've been living in the UK for almost 4 years. Hubby is a resident in the UK but still has a south african passport. Do you know if Alicante is a good area?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Hi all!!
> 
> My husband and I have just decided (today) to move to spain. We're thinking of Alicante. I have a dutch passport and my husband a South African one. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!!


Hi!
My advice would be to search this site for absolutely everything you want to know about (Alicante, cars, work, healthcare, education, benefits, furniture, renting etc etc etc) then ask if you have any specific questions.
Have fun!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Thanks! We pretty much have everything as we've been living in the UK for almost 4 years. Hubby is a resident in the UK but still has a south african passport. Do you know if Alicante is a good area?


If he stays in UK for another year, he will be eligible to apply for naturalisation as British citizen, which solves all visa problems at a stroke - none needed! Getting a spouse visa as someone married to an EU citizen (but not Spanish) is relatively easy, but as you know, having a British passport makes his life so much easier as he won't need a Schengen visa to visit most of Europe.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Alicante is huge province, I live in the province but up in a mountain area well away from the coast (40min drive) and think the area is great, the locals are wonderful and wouldn't move elsewhere


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## Jasmine Cross (May 27, 2010)

Thanks for all the help and advice!  We're in the very early stages of planning having only decided yesterday to do it! VERY EXCITING!! We're looking for an area that has an english community as well as job opportunities and of course, a beach!! Do any of you know of towns that fit this bill? 

We have purchased some books as well as some 'learning spanish' audio's so we are well on our way to making this a reality. We're trying to start a family as well so hopefully there will be 3 of us making the move (5 if you count the cats!).

Are there many South Africans living in Spain?

I'm looking forward to chatting to you all over the next couple of months and hopefully when we arrive we can meet up for a cold drink in the sunshine! (which London is lacking a little bit)

Thanks!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Thanks for all the help and advice!  We're in the very early stages of planning having only decided yesterday to do it! VERY EXCITING!! We're looking for an area that has an english community as well as job opportunities and of course, a beach!! Do any of you know of towns that fit this bill?
> 
> We have purchased some books as well as some 'learning spanish' audio's so we are well on our way to making this a reality. We're trying to start a family as well so hopefully there will be 3 of us making the move (5 if you count the cats!).
> 
> ...


we have an English community


lots of beaches

sunshine today

cool drinks


I used to have a South African neighbour here - no idea if she's still here though



BUT

no real work opportunities at the moment

who knows what it will be like in a year or so though


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> Alicante is huge province, I live in the province but up in a mountain area well away from the coast (40min drive) and think the area is great, the locals are wonderful and wouldn't move elsewhere


Sounds ideal, may i ask which area ?


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

My daughter moved to a lovely Spanish inland village about 25 minutes from Alicante.. there are a few expats in the area but they are in the minority and my daughter says it's the best thing she has ever done but she threw herself into the Spanish way of life firstly by going to night classes to learn Spanish at her local town hall and then she went almost full time to college in Alicante to further her Spanish, she is by no means fluent but she gets by and of course daily increases her vocabulary. Breakfast for her is taken after the school run at a local cafe with all the Spanish mums and as she says she has no option but to chat in Spanish, the only downside of this is the cigarette smoke that is a constant blue fug but she copes with it in order to improve her Spanish and make friends.

Maiden


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Jaxx said:


> Sounds ideal, may i ask which area ?


near alcoy. beautiful place, stunning views and nice people


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

um....I know this may sound weird, but why are you looking to relocate to Spain if you want to live in an English community ? There are many English communities in Spain of course, but if you are already learning Spanish and wish to make Spain your home, wouldn't it make more sense to look for an area that has only/mostly Spanish people living in it as opposed to only/mostly English?


or am I missing something.....




Jasmine Cross said:


> Thanks for all the help and advice!  We're in the very early stages of planning having only decided yesterday to do it! VERY EXCITING!! We're looking for an area that has an english community as well as job opportunities and of course, a beach!! Do any of you know of towns that fit this bill?
> 
> We have purchased some books as well as some 'learning spanish' audio's so we are well on our way to making this a reality. We're trying to start a family as well so hopefully there will be 3 of us making the move (5 if you count the cats!).
> 
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jewel003 said:


> um....I know this may sound weird, but why are you looking to relocate to Spain if you want to live in an English community ? There are many English communities in Spain of course, but if you are already learning Spanish and wish to make Spain your home, wouldn't it make more sense to look for an area that has only/mostly Spanish people living in it as opposed to only/mostly English?
> 
> 
> or am I missing something.....


Well sometimes people move to Spain because they prefer the climate, the scenery and the way of life it offers them, but they still wish to be with people who they can easily understand and communicate with!! 

Jo xxxx


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

Hi Jo,

doesn't living the way of life that Spain offers also mean that one integrates which, in order to integrate one would have to live and communicate mostly with the Spanish right ?

or am I seeing this way to black and white ? 

It could also be that being Dutch I think differently than a British person does (I just watched the link on another thread with the youtube video from solchannel, where the lady was talking about the British and how they stand out in Spain compared to the other Europeans living in Spain)

Having moved to several different countries on different continents I always made it a point of blending in with the local people there in order to live their way of life. (meaning living in an area with locals, not expats, shopping at local stores, not the expat stores, etc) I felt it gave me a firsthand view of how living in that particular country really felt and meant. Sure, I had English speaking friends too, but most of the people I hung out with were locals, it not only helped with learning the language faster, it also helped with getting to know how to get things done in that particular place faster 





jojo said:


> Well sometimes people move to Spain because they prefer the climate, the scenery and the way of life it offers them, but they still wish to be with people who they can easily understand and communicate with!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jewel003 said:


> Hi Jo,
> 
> doesn't living the way of life that Spain offers also mean that one integrates which, in order to integrate one would have to live and communicate mostly with the Spanish right ?
> 
> ...



I dont disagree with you at all! But horses for courses and altho I didnt come here to live in "Little Britain", there are areas here in Spain where it can be done and some folk like that, it gives them the best of both worlds. There are people who like Britain, the people etc and actually arent particularly in need of integrating into the "Spanish way", they just prefer a Spanish climate, sandy beaches, blue sea etc...! In fact most countries have areas of "Little wherever" Cos in general, people feel more secure with "their own" and tend to cling together.


Another thing I've noticed in my area, is that the modern Spanish are very European these days and dont like a typically Spanish lifestyle either, its like everything is moving towards being European, even Spanish schools are now, in the main bilingual, so in a few generations time, there maybe no differences at all!!

Jo xxxx


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## Guest (May 28, 2010)

Jewel003 said:


> talking about the British and how they stand out in Spain compared to the other Europeans living in Spain


Interesting! A quick wander around some of the more cosmopolitan towns and you'll undoubtedly see a group of Germans sticking out like sore thumbs all eating in the German restaurants and drinking in the German bars. Wander past a Swedish owned bar/restaurant and it'll be full of Swedes. Huge groups of Italians congregating on the beaches. Irish bars full of Irish (although the Spanish seem to like them too for some strange reason!)

I personally don't think the Brits are worse than anyone else, it's just there's more of them here


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Jewel003 said:


> It could also be that being Dutch I think differently than a British person does (I just watched the link on another thread with the youtube video from solchannel, where the lady was talking about the British and how they stand out in Spain compared to the other Europeans living in Spain)


I'd be interested in seeing this link Jewel - though why the British would stand out more from any other "European" - ie anyone speaking another language other than Spanish - is surely gonna make heads turn amongst the natives, don't you think? Beats me..... Or was it more the stereotypical lager lout she was banging on about which tends to tar people with the same brush???


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

true, most countries do have that going on, and I tend to steer away from that since it kinda spoils part of the reason I moved to a new country in the first place 

thanks for the update on how the Spanish people are becoming more European and less Spanish, that I didn't know - any idea how they are just north of Alicante, like in Javea, Moraira etc ?




jojo said:


> I dont disagree with you at all! But horses for courses and altho I didnt come here to live in "Little Britain", there are areas here in Spain where it can be done and some folk like that, it gives them the best of both worlds. There are people who like Britain, the people etc and actually arent particularly in need of integrating into the "Spanish way", they just prefer a Spanish climate, sandy beaches, blue sea etc...! In fact most countries have areas of "Little wherever" Cos in general, people feel more secure with "their own" and tend to cling together.
> 
> 
> Another thing I've noticed in my area, is that the modern Spanish are very European these days and dont like a typically Spanish lifestyle either, its like everything is moving towards being European, even Spanish schools are now, in the main bilingual, so in a few generations time, there maybe no differences at all!!
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> I'd be interested in seeing this link Jewel - though why the British would stand out more from any other "European" - ie anyone speaking another language other than Spanish - is surely gonna make heads turn amongst the natives, don't you think? Beats me..... Or was it more the stereotypical lager lout she was banging on about which tends to tar people with the same brush???


I apparently don't look 'British' 

In shops I often get spoken to in German - they know I'm not Spanish when I speak Spanish, but don't know where I'm from


& there's a shop I've used for 6 years to have photos done for school & so on - I always speak Spanish there (although I know the owner speaks really good English)

I went in recently for my passport photos - 'de Francia?' he said'

'No - un pasaporte Britanico ' says I



'I always thought you were French' says he!!!


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## Guest (May 28, 2010)

LOL! 

We found out the other day that the woman in the local chemist was English, over the last couple of years we've been speaking to her in Spanish all the time and her back in a perfect slangy impossible to understand Andaluz accent. OH was struggling to get across what she wanted (would've done in English to be fair) and the woman just broke out into an obvious mother tongue English.. we were both amazed, she even looked Spanish!


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

Here is the link, it is in the useful links thread here on the forum 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ving-spain/22949-useful-links.html#post144652

scroll down to permalink nr 7





Tallulah said:


> I'd be interested in seeing this link Jewel - though why the British would stand out more from any other "European" - ie anyone speaking another language other than Spanish - is surely gonna make heads turn amongst the natives, don't you think? Beats me..... Or was it more the stereotypical lager lout she was banging on about which tends to tar people with the same brush???


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

oh don't get me wrong, I didn't mean the British were worse by any standard!

I have been frustrated by the attitude of several different European nationalities (either on vacation or living there) many times when I lived outside of Europe! I was explaining what I saw and heard in the youtube video, which had a British woman speaking on how the British 'stand out'





ShinyAndy said:


> Interesting! A quick wander around some of the more cosmopolitan towns and you'll undoubtedly see a group of Germans sticking out like sore thumbs all eating in the German restaurants and drinking in the German bars. Wander past a Swedish owned bar/restaurant and it'll be full of Swedes. Huge groups of Italians congregating on the beaches. Irish bars full of Irish (although the Spanish seem to like them too for some strange reason!)
> 
> I personally don't think the Brits are worse than anyone else, it's just there's more of them here


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I live in a modern spanish town, not many expats of any nationality. However, in my town there is an indian restaurant, two chinese restaurants, two italian restaurants, a Belgian fast food restaurant, an asian restaurant...... and at one end of town and I find this quite fascinating, there is an Irish bar owned and run by two Spanish chaps and next to it is a Lebanese bar, owned and run by a swedish couple!!? All these bars and restaurants are always full of Spanish. The few British expats in town tend to go to the Spanish bars!

Jo xxx


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## Guest (May 28, 2010)

Modern Spanish like new places, no matter what they are or who they are owned by. The myth that Real Spain revolves around living in a run down finca in the middle of nowhere, a donkey to take you to the bread shop and a smelly smoke filled bar filled with loud old men playing dominos seems to appeal to expats more than the Spanish nowadays!

Similarly a bar/cafe has just opened down the road from us, clearly aimed at the English speaking market if their marketing is anything to go by. Place is rammed full of Spanish, not sure how the owners will be coping.. that'll be a baptism of fire... cafe con leche won't really cover the hundred variations of coffee they seem to require


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

ShinyAndy said:


> Modern Spanish like new places, no matter what they are or who they are owned by. The myth that Real Spain revolves around living in a run down finca in the middle of nowhere, a donkey to take you to the bread shop and a smelly smoke filled bar filled with loud old men playing dominos seems to appeal to expats more than the Spanish nowadays!


......... you forgot the TV blaring out in the corner!!!!!! 

Jo xxxx


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## Guest (May 28, 2010)

Oh yeah.. we even had soft porn on the other day in our local!


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> I apparently don't look 'British'


Me either it seems!! I'm often spoken to in italian or spanish - I'm quite olive skinned (rather than permatanned or 'St Tropez' orange) and dark. In the middle east I get asked questions in arabic! If I speak in spanish then on the whole the locals reply in spanish, although the quizzical look on their face shows their trying to work out where I'm from!

Of course if I'm with dd2 no-one speaks to me at all as she is now very blond with blue eyes and a tan and hears 'chica guapa' following her most of the time. (In Thailand when we lived there - 'helloooo babeeee'!!!)

I agree with Shiny Andy - the young spanish have grown up in the country with no services, no telephones, no internet, costs a fortune to keep, post once a week etc etc. Your new iPad isn't going to work in the finca!! Little apartments with service charges are the way to go!


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

The thing is, you can't live your life as if its an anthropological study. Wherever you end up living, you have to feed and clothe your family first and foremost... and you do that the way you know best. So, adopting a Spanish lifestyle may appeal on paper, but in reality, continuing to use your native habits and language may be preferable to some. 
And why the preciousness about it anyway? Back in the UK, we had families from Pakistan, India, Greek Cypriots, etc etc all living around us and I don't think anyone was hounding them to stop shopping in their own shops and cooking their own native food?? In fact, it made the International Evening at my son's school such an occasion, with 55 different countries represented!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

fourgotospain;308411
I agree with Shiny Andy - the young spanish have grown up in the country with no services said:


> Is this supposed to read
> the young Spanish who have grown up in the country with no....???
> 
> 'cos otherwise it doesn't make sense to me. The young Spanish (at least the young Spanish who are in towns) have grown up with mobiles, post everday, Nintendos etc. Perhaps their parents didn't have everything or more likely you're referrinf to their grandparents???


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## Jasmine Cross (May 27, 2010)

Jewel003 said:


> um....I know this may sound weird, but why are you looking to relocate to Spain if you want to live in an English community ? There are many English communities in Spain of course, but if you are already learning Spanish and wish to make Spain your home, wouldn't it make more sense to look for an area that has only/mostly Spanish people living in it as opposed to only/mostly English?
> 
> 
> or am I missing something.....


Doesn't sound weird at all. We will happily live in a spanish community but it would be nice to have english people in the area. We aren't looking to move to an area that is mostly populated by english speakers, just an area that has english people in it. I suppose we'd feel more comfortable to start off in an area where there are others that have made the move and then once we're settled and we know Spain a bit better, we can move. Hope that clarifies...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Doesn't sound weird at all. We will happily live in a spanish community but it would be nice to have english people in the area. We aren't looking to move to an area that is mostly populated by english speakers, just an area that has english people in it. I suppose we'd feel more comfortable to start off in an area where there are others that have made the move and then once we're settled and we know Spain a bit better, we can move. Hope that clarifies...


We all have our different reasons for moving and our different wish lists and expectations. spains a big place and theres enough room for everyone and everything lol!!! We always get carried away on here, digressing, going off topic etc with the questions and answers lolol

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> Modern Spanish like new places, no matter what they are or who they are owned by. The myth that Real Spain revolves around living in a run down finca in the middle of nowhere, a donkey to take you to the bread shop and a smelly smoke filled bar filled with loud old men playing dominos seems to appeal to expats more than the Spanish nowadays!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its like "Real England" I guess, pretty villages, thatched cottages, a church, a pub, a little post office, a green where they play cricket on a Sunday afternoon........ Its idyllic, but its not real life (well maybe for a lucky few, but not the younger generation), cos when you get down to the nitty gritty and you wanna decent internet connection, see the latest film, go clubbing, go to a shopping mall, live near to the office..... the real people need to be in or close to a big bustling town and towns, as you say mary are becoming more and more homogenous ! Spains no different!

jo xxx


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> Its like "Real England" I guess, pretty villages,(no public transport) thatched cottages,(listed buildings - a planning nightmare) a church, (which only 10 people go to, except Christmas Mass of course) a pub, (car park full of Range Rovers not a 'local' in sight) a little post office, (closed down) a green where they play cricket on a Sunday afternoon (if you can get a team together)........


I grew up in Real England and it's not all that....


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

fourgotospain said:


> I grew up in Real England and it's not all that....




I grow up in real Scotland and it's full of English now


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> I grow up in real Scotland and it's full of English now


That's payback for dumping Gordon Brown in England...pretty please don't send Alex Salmond south..... the english won't just invade Scotland as a reprisal...they'll nuke us


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Lol true or we could say they deserved him hehe.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> Lol true or we could say they deserved him hehe.


nobody deserved that........I still say it's allthe fault of the Scottish tourist Board with their "keep Scotland tidy" slogan... we did and we threw our rubbish in England.....look what happened ..

karma or what


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

yep, that makes total sense  




Jasmine Cross said:


> Doesn't sound weird at all. We will happily live in a spanish community but it would be nice to have english people in the area. We aren't looking to move to an area that is mostly populated by english speakers, just an area that has english people in it. I suppose we'd feel more comfortable to start off in an area where there are others that have made the move and then once we're settled and we know Spain a bit better, we can move. Hope that clarifies...


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## m3mpower (May 1, 2010)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Thanks! We pretty much have everything as we've been living in the UK for almost 4 years. Hubby is a resident in the UK but still has a south african passport. Do you know if Alicante is a good area?


Hi, yes Alicante is great, i have been there many many times, i was there last week and i'm going there again next month.
i (we) also want to move there..
it is not the same Alicante i have seen 10 years ago, because of the bad economy, the city could very quiet, but hopefully it will pick up again.
if you can get a job there, then its definitely worth moving, totally totally different life style compared to London, in my opinion, much better life style, better climate, better food, laid back...etc
Good luck anyway


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## elgordo (Nov 28, 2008)

*hi there*



dunmovin said:


> Alicante is huge province, I live in the province but up in a mountain area well away from the coast (40min drive) and think the area is great, the locals are wonderful and wouldn't move elsewhere


hi there im a young 64 and want to move well away from the coast why go to spain just to be back home, what are the rental costs inland can you help .
david


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## queby (May 9, 2009)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Hi all!!
> 
> My husband and I have just decided (today) to move to spain. We're thinking of Alicante. I have a dutch passport and my husband a South African one. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!!



From reading your posting it sounds as though you haven't been to Alicante. Wouldn't it be a good idea to visit and maybe rent for a while to see if you like it? Also, if you need to work - dont' forget that Spain is in the throes of a recession and it's difficult for Spanish people to get work, let alone anyone else.


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## reggiedh (Jan 24, 2010)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Thanks! We pretty much have everything as we've been living in the UK for almost 4 years. Hubby is a resident in the UK but still has a south african passport. Do you know if Alicante is a good area?


Hi Jasmine
We recently bought in a town called Javea; somewhere between Alicante and Valencia. We will be there for 3-4 months beginning in August. We are Canadian (me) and my wife is a London lass. We are living and working in Zambia and were wondering if there were any South Africans around; now it loos like there might be. If you are there during that time and want to meet cor coffee feel free to PM me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

reggiedh said:


> Hi Jasmine
> We recently bought in a town called Javea; somewhere between Alicante and Valencia. We will be there for 3-4 months beginning in August. We are Canadian (me) and my wife is a London lass. We are living and working in Zambia and were wondering if there were any South Africans around; now it loos like there might be. If you are there during that time and want to meet cor coffee feel free to PM me.


That sounds like a nice idea, but you need to post at least five times before you can send or receive PMs I believe.
Why don't you start a thread about why you chose Javea, for example or how the buying process went??? It's all good info for other forum members...


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## reggiedh (Jan 24, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That sounds like a nice idea, but you need to post at least five times before you can send or receive PMs I believe.
> Why don't you start a thread about why you chose Javea, for example or how the buying process went??? It's all good info for other forum members...


Good idea. Mean time Jasmine contact me via the forum if you have interest till I buld up my posts.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

elgordo said:


> hi there im a young 64 and want to move well away from the coast why go to spain just to be back home, what are the rental costs inland can you help .
> david


Just over a year ago we were renting a new 3 bed/2bath apartment in a small town near Cocentaina for 350 euros/month excluding utilities so with the economy as it is there are probably better deals available now. Villas with private pool tend to be in the 500 - 600/month bracket but tend to be booked early by the Spanish for the summer.


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## franny (Jul 12, 2008)

If you're used to the buzz and culture of London, you may seriously suffer far from Madrid or Barcelona. Here, most people are earning around 1000 euros a month for a 42-hour week. If you find work teaching English or Dutch, you'll be expected to be self-employed (250 euros a month to declare yourself self-employed). You won't have the right to unemployment benefit (paro) even if you do go legal.

I would advise you to hang on to any property you may own in London and not burn your bridges. Rent a place for six months or a year and see how you like it. Also, read as much as you can about Spain's history (Leyenda Negra) and you'll get some insight into the Spanish psyche (fatalism, blatant corruption but people just shrug their shoulders). I know people here who have not been paid for building work done (one friend is owed 6K and his wife is pregnant with their third child), and they do not have CAB to turn to, and bureaucracy here is labyrintine. 

Caveat emptor. Be very careful. There are a lot of dregs who have moved here too.


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## franny (Jul 12, 2008)

Learn Spanish. Vital. And don't oversmile. People take you for a _giri_ idiot. Giri is pejorative for northern european.


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## franny (Jul 12, 2008)

*Javea*

I made the fatal mistake of moving to Javea in 2006 and I have been trying in vain to sell my flat ever since. It is the most corrupt ayuntamiento in Spain, but as I said earlier, read about Spain. Javea is not Spain, it is the costa. My partner is from Extremadura and he says that Javea is not Spanish.

If you get any work done, ask for a written presupuesto (quote) with labour separate. Decent workers do this anyway. If you live in an urbanisation where you pay a monthly fee for maintenance, pay it as and when you get the bill, not by direct debit. Always query unusual amounts. Don't waste your time trying to reason or appeal to a Spaniard you're having a disagreement with's better nature. They will smile and say, vale, vale and then you'll hear nothing. English friends here say you'll never win an argument with a Spaniard. Ask to see all bills for materials, etc, etc, all the crap clichés I though were being trotted out by racists, but which sadly are so true here on the costa.

Read the Alatriste series by Arturo Perez-Reverte and you'll get a really great insight into the Spanish attitude: no mercy for northern foreigners. You have money, we'll gaily relieve you of it. You are going to have to develop a hard-nosed attitude and select your workers (plumbers, etc) with extreme care. BTW, the minimum hourly rate here is 4.35 euros. The Spanish government treats its own people appallingly.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

franny said:


> I made the fatal mistake of moving to Javea in 2006 and I have been trying in vain to sell my flat ever since. It is the most corrupt ayuntamiento in Spain, but as I said earlier, read about Spain. Javea is not Spain, it is the costa. My partner is from Extremadura and he says that Javea is not Spanish.
> 
> If you get any work done, ask for a written presupuesto (quote) with labour separate. Decent workers do this anyway. If you live in an urbanisation where you pay a monthly fee for maintenance, pay it as and when you get the bill, not by direct debit. Always query unusual amounts. Don't waste your time trying to reason or appeal to a Spaniard you're having a disagreement with's better nature. They will smile and say, vale, vale and then you'll hear nothing. English friends here say you'll never win an argument with a Spaniard. Ask to see all bills for materials, etc, etc, all the crap clichés I though were being trotted out by racists, but which sadly are so true here on the costa.
> 
> Read the Alatriste series by Arturo Perez-Reverte and you'll get a really great insight into the Spanish attitude: no mercy for northern foreigners. You have money, we'll gaily relieve you of it. You are going to have to develop a hard-nosed attitude and select your workers (plumbers, etc) with extreme care. BTW, the minimum hourly rate here is 4.35 euros. The Spanish government treats its own people appallingly.


you didn't get to France then?


personally I love Javea - it's not perfect (is anywhere:confused2, but it's home



don't you think you're shooting yourself in the foot rather if you're trying to sell your property?

the rest of your advice I'd agree with though


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

franny said:


> I made the fatal mistake of moving to Javea in 2006 and I have been trying in vain to sell my flat ever since. It is the most corrupt ayuntamiento in Spain, but as I said earlier, read about Spain. Javea is not Spain, it is the costa. My partner is from Extremadura and he says that Javea is not Spanish.
> 
> If you get any work done, ask for a written presupuesto (quote) with labour separate. Decent workers do this anyway. If you live in an urbanisation where you pay a monthly fee for maintenance, pay it as and when you get the bill, not by direct debit. Always query unusual amounts. Don't waste your time trying to reason or appeal to a Spaniard you're having a disagreement with's better nature. They will smile and say, vale, vale and then you'll hear nothing. English friends here say you'll never win an argument with a Spaniard. Ask to see all bills for materials, etc, etc, all the crap clichés I though were being trotted out by racists, but which sadly are so true here on the costa.
> 
> Read the Alatriste series by Arturo Perez-Reverte and you'll get a really great insight into the Spanish attitude: no mercy for northern foreigners. You have money, we'll gaily relieve you of it. You are going to have to develop a hard-nosed attitude and select your workers (plumbers, etc) with extreme care. BTW, the minimum hourly rate here is 4.35 euros. The Spanish government treats its own people appallingly.


Obviously Spain didn't work out for you, shame that you can't get out when you so desperately want to be shot of the place. It must be horrible living in a place you really don't want to be in.

I agree there's a lot of corruption in local government and central government, there's no doubt about that. However I do think this is probably just as rife in the uk, but not so evident, deeper down, and for that reason may even be worse in some ways.

Your other comments I feel are not really fair and/or relevant for example
If you get any work done, ask for a written presupuesto (quote) with labour separate
Wouldn't you get a quote done like that in the Uk, or any other country?

BTW, the minimum hourly rate here is 4.35 euros
The minimum rate for what, for plumbers?? Perhaps it is, but it doesn't mean to say that's what you're going to earn; it's what it says - the minimum rate. The plumbers I know and have seen don't do badly here - good houses, good cars - mind you they work all the hours god etc sends

you'll get a really great insight into the Spanish attitude: no mercy for northern foreigners.
I've really got no idea what you're talking about here. If anything there may be racism against Africans, but I've never heard of this

Anyway, I'm very happy here even though it's definitely got it's problems and now more than ever. You on the other hand seem to have *issues* with Spain. Hope you can leave soon before you get too bitter about the place


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> franny said:
> 
> 
> > I know people here who have not been paid for building work done (one friend is owed 6K and his wife is pregnant with their third child), and they do not have CAB to turn to, and bureaucracy here is labyrintine.
> ...


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

elgordo said:


> hi there im a young 64 and want to move well away from the coast why go to spain just to be back home, what are the rental costs inland can you help .
> david


where I live (Muro del Alcoy, Cocentaina area) we rented a well appointed 3 bedroom flat for 300 euros per month if you want PM me and I'll give yo the contact number for the agent..... who, by the way, is a star.


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## NorthernLass (Nov 9, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Obviously Spain didn't work out for you, shame that you can't get out when you so desperately want to be shot of the place. It must be horrible living in a place you really don't want to be in.
> 
> I agree there's a lot of corruption in local government and central government, there's no doubt about that. However I do think this is probably just as rife in the uk, but not so evident, deeper down, and for that reason may even be worse in some ways.
> 
> ...


Oh dear..someone has made the fatal mistake of saying something negative about Spain....


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

NorthernLass said:


> Oh dear..someone has made the fatal mistake of saying something negative about Spain....


why is that a fatal mistake? Spain isn't everyones bliss. Everyone is entilted to an opinion, and a shared expirence helps all, good and bad. sharing helps avoid problems and advice is always welcome


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

NorthernLass said:


> Oh dear..someone has made the fatal mistake of saying something negative about Spain....


 

I wouldn't say *fatal* mistake , but only giving a negative opinion *is* a mistake I think. 
However, everybody has a different story to tell and I do find it sad when people have put a lot of effort, time and money in to trying to make a move that they presumably think is for the better.
I'm happy to say that hasn't been my case, although I know, and have said many a time before, Spain isn't perfect. Corruption, unemployment, eccentric education system to name a few problems. The thing I would dispute is are these areas any better off in the UK? Some people would are that yes, they are. I happen to think there are just as many negatives in these areas in the Uk as in Spain.

PS So Northern Lass, I'm interested to hear your views on the areas franny brought up. The characteristics of the Spanish, the racism of the Spanish towards northern europeans, minimum wages, plumbers etc etc


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

can you elaborate on what you mean by the eccentric education system please ? 

That would be much appreciated 





Pesky Wesky said:


> I wouldn't say *fatal* mistake , but only giving a negative opinion *is* a mistake I think.
> However, everybody has a different story to tell and I do find it sad when people have put a lot of effort, time and money in to trying to make a move that they presumably think is for the better.
> I'm happy to say that hasn't been my case, although I know, and have said many a time before, Spain isn't perfect. Corruption, unemployment, eccentric education system to name a few problems. The thing I would dispute is are these areas any better off in the UK? Some people would are that yes, they are. I happen to think there are just as many negatives in these areas in the Uk as in Spain.
> 
> PS So Northern Lass, I'm interested to hear your views on the areas franny brought up. The characteristics of the Spanish, the racism of the Spanish towards northern europeans, minimum wages, plumbers etc etc


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jewel003 said:


> can you elaborate on what you mean by the eccentric education system please ?
> 
> That would be much appreciated



Yes PW, elaborate!!! 

Seriously tho, I personally think what she means is that schools are not regulated as in the UK and a little bit hit or miss as to whether you get a good school/teacher or not. There doesnt seem to be any real accountability - thats now I see it???

Jo xxx


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## NorthernLass (Nov 9, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wouldn't say *fatal* mistake , but only giving a negative opinion *is* a mistake I think.
> However, everybody has a different story to tell and I do find it sad when people have put a lot of effort, time and money in to trying to make a move that they presumably think is for the better.
> I'm happy to say that hasn't been my case, although I know, and have said many a time before, Spain isn't perfect. Corruption, unemployment, eccentric education system to name a few problems. The thing I would dispute is are these areas any better off in the UK? Some people would are that yes, they are. I happen to think there are just as many negatives in these areas in the Uk as in Spain.
> 
> PS So Northern Lass, I'm interested to hear your views on the areas franny brought up. The characteristics of the Spanish, the racism of the Spanish towards northern europeans, minimum wages, plumbers etc etc



I was just being a bit cheeky... .it's just when someone comes along as seems to have had a bad experience in Spain and says something negative..out come the arrows to shoot it down!

Or it's .. go back to where you came from...

I do like to read ALL views on Spain,,not just the happy stories..but often they don't return after that!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I mean that little makes sense to me about state education in Spain. The teachers are given limited training or none about actually teaching - they do *not* do teaching practice. To be a secondary school or higher teacher you have to pass a theoretical exam and then explain orally what you'd do in a class to teach x point, but it tests what content you would include in the class not really the way you'd teach it etc etc.
Teachers have often not stepped into a class room since they left school themselves which could be 5 years ago or 35 years ago. When they start teaching there are no observations, no one knows what's going on in their class room. Again they have to give in a programme talking about the academic content, not how it's going to be taught ie groups, using real models, presentations...
Although there are some national or at least area syllabuses it is the class teacher that sets the exam so there is no national level exam like o levels.
Teachers are very hard done by in some ways though. You can plough your way through the Teaching English thread to learn about the trials and tribulations of oH being a teacher if you want.
Other things...
My daughter doesn't do Religion because we think religious studies would be usful if they studied religions and not just one the catholic religion, but here the children who opt for this subject are prepared to be catholics. If you choose not to do Religion you do something else which changes names about every 2 years. This year it's called MAE, but i can't remember what it means. Anyway it's supposed to be something to do with learning study techniques. In reality the children do nothing or homework - 2 hours a week!!

Everything is geared around pass or fail. You pass with a 5 so you pass not knowing 50% of the material. Kids will constantly ask, "Is this going to be on the exam?" If the teacher innocently says "No" she's signed her own death warrant. Why listen if it's not going to be on the exam?

I could go on but anybody else want to join in??

In spite of all I say, I'm amazed that there are always some exceptional teachers who do an excellent job, loads of OK teachers who do their job and always a couple of teachers who really are a waste of space. Same for the kids. So is the end result really so different from schools in the UK??


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Yes PW, elaborate!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Are you winding me up Jojo??!!


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## NorthernLass (Nov 9, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I mean that little makes sense to me about state education in Spain. The teachers are given limited training or none about actually teaching - they do *not* do teaching practice. To be a secondary school or higher teacher you have to pass a theoretical exam and then explain orally what you'd do in a class to teach x point, but it tests what content you would include in the class not really the way you'd teach it etc etc.
> Teachers have often not stepped into a class room since they left school themselves which could be 5 years ago or 35 years ago. When they start teaching there are no observations, no one knows what's going on in their class room. Again they have to give in a programme talking about the academic content, not how it's going to be taught ie groups, using real models, presentations...
> Although there are some national or at least area syllabuses it is the class teacher that sets the exam so there is no national level exam like o levels.
> Teachers are very hard done by in some ways though. You can plough your way through the Teaching English thread to learn about the trials and tribulations of oH being a teacher if you want.
> ...


I'd like to join..but I wouldn't be very complimentary about the spanish system.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Are you winding me up Jojo??!!


Yes hun   Actually I wanted to hear what you had to say

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Yes hun   Actually I wanted to hear what you had to say
> 
> Jo xxx


Nothing new!


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

I lived in Scotland during my primary school years and as I remember it, we didn't have a choice to which school we went to, nor did we have a choice in teachers, it was one school, one teacher for the first three years, then a different one from 4th to 7th grade. 

Then High school came along, (in Scotland) again only one High school and although we had different teachers for different subjects, I sure wouldn't say that all those teachers we good. I do recall that we were treated as individuals and I feel we as kids weren't repressed.

Most of them stood before a classroom like they HAD to, and were not enjoying teaching. 

From my second year of High school onwards I moved around Europe a lot and spent the rest of my High school years in several different International and American schools. My perception of the teachers in these schools was that they ENJOYED teaching much more than in the Scottish state schools and that they were better than the teachers in the state schools. My grades sure increased substantially and we learned much more in less time (even at that time, in all schools I went to, one had to follow the main I.B. curriculum)

When I had kids of my own and they started school, I was living in Belgium. It is said that Belgium has one of the highest levels of education in Europe (kids in grade school have approx. 1 hour of homework per day). (I compared it to my friends children in primary school in Scotland but they were quite a bit further behind even though they were in the same grade) One is allowed to send their child to whichever school they choose in whichever town or city, one is not bound by where one lives. But, belgian schools have, IMO, the worst teachers as they stand before a class of kids and don't teach, they DRILL the kids, none of the kids being allowed to be different, individuality is NOT appreciated and kids punished for the most elementary things (no talking allowed AT ALL in the lunchroom, lunch must be eaten in silence, this is common practice in all Belgian schools in Flanders). When my eldest graduated high school, if you put her in the same room with other graduates, one almost wouldn't be able to tell who is who, that's how stripped they are of their individuality! Some teachers in my daughters high school even admit they don't like teaching, that they do it for the fact they have a guarenteed job with lots of vacation - how sick is that! 

In my eyes, if a school has teachers that care about really wanting to teach the kids and they give the kids room for to be themselves, then that is a good and even great school. 

From what I have gathered so far, in Spain one has to send their child to a school within a certain area of where one lives, but there are different schools to choose from in that area. Is that correct ? If so, surely there must be at least one school which one feels is good for their child ? And I also gathered that Spanish schools are quite high when it comes to the level of education. 

Please tell me more about the schools in Spain coz my childrens education is very important to me. 




jojo said:


> Yes PW, elaborate!!!
> 
> Seriously tho, I personally think what she means is that schools are not regulated as in the UK and a little bit hit or miss as to whether you get a good school/teacher or not. There doesnt seem to be any real accountability - thats now I see it???
> 
> Jo xxx


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

I'd like to hear your thoughts anyway :eyebrows:




NorthernLass said:


> I'd like to join..but I wouldn't be very complimentary about the spanish system.


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## barryoconnorsa (Dec 27, 2010)

Jasmine Cross said:


> Hi all!!
> 
> My husband and I have just decided (today) to move to spain. We're thinking of Alicante. I have a dutch passport and my husband a South African one. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!!


Hi i am a new to the site and just wondering how you got on with your move as i am in the same situation
Thanks in advance


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