# Bull fighting



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

I am sitting watching bull fighting and am trying to understand it. It seems to me that by the time the torreodor gets to the bull the odds are with him?! This has probably been discussed many times before but I am really trying to understand why he is so brave!!!! I suppose the bull doesn't look so threatening on TV as it does in the arena. Can someone explain to me the process please. I could google it but I would rather have it explained in plain english the proceedure and hankies, thumbs up and things if anyone has the time to do so.

I would like to see a bullfight just once to get the atmosphere then maybe I will understand it better so that's on my list of things to do.

Thanks. x


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Chica said:


> I am sitting watching bull fighting and am trying to understand it. It seems to me that by the time the torreodor gets to the bull the odds are with him?! This has probably been discussed many times before but I am really trying to understand why he is so brave!!!! I suppose the bull doesn't look so threatening on TV as it does in the arena. Can someone explain to me the process please. I could google it but I would rather have it explained in plain english the proceedure and hankies, thumbs up and things if anyone has the time to do so.
> 
> I would like to see a bullfight just once to get the atmosphere then maybe I will understand it better so that's on my list of things to do.
> 
> Thanks. x


i don't understand it either.
it's a barbaric out of date sport if u can call it that. and it should be stopped that's my view anyway. how anyone can do that to any animal is past me !


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

jkchawner said:


> i don't understand it either.
> it's a barbaric out of date sport if u can call it that. and it should be stopped that's my view anyway. how anyone can do that to any animal is past me !


That's how I feel too. I wondered that if I understood it and the dangers to the picllo, matador and the rest, maybe I wouldn't feel so bad for the bull. I believe the piccador cuts the nerve so that the bull charges in a particular way so that the chances of the bull damaging the torreador are less. I know there are injuries now and then but I think the odds are too great against the bull for it to be a brave sport. Can anyone convince me I am wrong?!?!?


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

It's awful - went into an electrical shop not so long ago and they were playing it on all the tv's there - actually turned away in disgust and with tears in my eyes when I saw them sticking the bull with those stick/spear things with the coloured streamers. Just a prolonged torture until the inevitable. Am I the only one to stand up and cheer when the bull manages to injure the Toreador?!?!


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Am I the only one to stand up and cheer when the bull manages to injure the Toreador?!?!


No you're not...I'm there with you..lol. I will the bull not to fight as I believe they are left to graze for the rest of their life (not sure if it's true tho').


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> It's awful - went into an electrical shop not so long ago and they were playing it on all the tv's there - actually turned away in disgust and with tears in my eyes when I saw them sticking the bull with those stick/spear things with the coloured streamers. Just a prolonged torture until the inevitable. Am I the only one to stand up and cheer when the bull manages to injure the Toreador?!?!



When I first moved to Spain I watched some bull fighting on TV and the bull ripped the "matador" to bits!! It was really gruesome, he was wailing and holding in his intestines while the medics were rushing to get him out of there!! I was amazed they showed it on TV!!

As for Bull fighting itself, cruel and unecessary

Jo xx


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> It's awful - went into an electrical shop not so long ago and they were playing it on all the tv's there - actually turned away in disgust and with tears in my eyes when I saw them sticking the bull with those stick/spear things with the coloured streamers. Just a prolonged torture until the inevitable. Am I the only one to stand up and cheer when the bull manages to injure the Toreador?!?!


let's be right maybe if the matador had spears hanging out of him then poss things could alter on the bull fighting front.
maybe i have the solution if we all go to bull fights and throw spears at the matador  we could put an end to this sick sport.:clap2:


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Wanna be macho? Wanna show bravey?

Get in a boxing ring.....man to man. If they want to test their bravery try fighting on with your nose broken and both eyes closed. 

Or join the miltary and get on the frontline with our boys in some hellhole in the Middle East!

There's no glory or honour in animal cruelty.

They justify it by saying it's part of their culture......what they're saying is animal cruelty, and the _glorification_ of animal cruelty is part of their culture? 
Should be consigned to the same place as The Spanish Inquisition and Franco's Death Squads!

Wanna know why domestic violence is the highest in Europe? The condoning of barbarism like bullfighting. Any psychologist will confirm the link between animal cruelty and domestic violence....they're a double edged sword.

The whole thing just sickens and disgusts me! And a lot of Spanish feel the same way to!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

jojo said:


> When I first moved to Spain I watched some bull fighting on TV and the bull ripped the "matador" to bits!! It was really gruesome, he was wailing and holding in his intestines while the medics were rushing to get him out of there!! I was amazed they showed it on TV!!
> 
> As for Bull fighting itself, cruel and unecessary
> 
> Jo xx


As a nurse yourself, I'm sure you've seen worse in the A&E dept after a Friday night session, hon!!

xxx


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

XTreme said:


> Wanna be macho? Wanna show bravey?
> 
> Get in a boxing ring.....man to man. If they want to test their bravery try fighting on with your nose broken and both eyes closed.
> 
> ...


dam right i can't stand and animal cruelty in any shape or form.
there is no need for it. if people stopped going to them then no bull fights would take place anyway. so guess what it's the public's fault really


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

XTreme said:


> The whole thing just sickens and disgusts me! And a lot of Spanish feel the same way to!


Apparently not enough to get it stopped



Doggy


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

owdoggy said:


> Apparently not enough to get it stopped
> 
> 
> 
> Doggy


How are the fires up your way Doggy??

Jo xx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

owdoggy said:


> Apparently not enough to get it stopped


I think it is banned in a number of provinces doggy....not sure which ones but I think Catalunya is one of them.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2009)

Must admit that bullfighting does seem to be a pointless and cruel activity as do many of the other so called traditions such as running bulls into the sea to drown. 
Old traditions die hard especially where we are in Murcia, and I think that such things will live on for a long while in the more rual areas. A friend of our was telling us about how much his son loves animals and wants to fight bulls when he is older!!

Much better to bait a fly instead or squash a mossie


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> How are the fires up your way Doggy??
> 
> Jo xx


Officially "under control" but the temps have been a bit down today, the wind not so strong and no new outbreaks reported so hopefully it's sorted.




Doggy


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## Liberty (Jul 12, 2009)

Chica said:


> No you're not...I'm there with you..lol. I will the bull not to fight as I believe they are left to graze for the rest of their life (not sure if it's true tho').


No, they get killed the same as others. I saw a blind bull in the ring back along....they didn't realise he was blind until he was in the ring, but of course he couldn't fight. Still got killed though....just not part of the "show". The ones that get let off being killed are the ones they deem to have been particularly brave, or put on a good show. 

Oh and guys....don't forget bullfighting isn't and never has been a "sport". You'll be labelled an ignorant tourist if you say that in public!

There's some great stuff on uTube if you like watching matadors getting gored. Google "corneado" and "toros".


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Fact of the matter is that the Spanish themselves are voting with their feet.
Wherever I've travelled around Spain I've been amazed at the number of towns and villages with long abandoned bullrings.
It now seems to be a minority and mainly specialist thing,... (cant call it sport),.. for the rich and very well heeled, on special occasions only, in the big cities.
There has been a dramatic decline in the numbers attending traditional bull "fighting" throughout the country as a whole over the last thirty years or so.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> Fact of the matter is that the Spanish themselves are voting with their feet.
> Wherever I've travelled around Spain I've been amazed at the number of towns and villages with long abandoned bullrings.
> It now seems to be a minority and mainly specialist thing,... (cant call it sport),.. for the rich and very well heeled, on special occasions only, in the big cities.
> There has been a dramatic decline in the numbers attending traditional bull "fighting" throughout the country as a whole over the last thirty years or so.


I would agree that it is on the decline, however in Murcia we still have travelling bull rings. They are almost like a travelling circus. They turn up, erect a bull ring and sell tickets. 
Mind you in a region where we still have the Matanza del cerdo its not all that suprising. My understanding is that it is totally illigal but the Guardia turn a blind eye, in fact quite a few even attend!


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

When will the bull learn not to go for the red rag. It's a stupid animal. You'd think he would cotton on after a time that there's only air behind it!!!!


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## paul.I.O.W (Jul 13, 2009)

I strongly agree with what you are saying and im pleased there are alot of spanish people that also agree.very well put Xtreme


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## Liberty (Jul 12, 2009)

When I read forums like this I often read that bullfighting is in decline, which I am quite pleased about. 

But then I see no real evidence of that "on the street" so to speak. People were standing in line for 4 hours a few weeks ago in my town just to buy tickets for the José Tomás fight. Completely sold out. The area of our bullring has recently undergone a complete refurbishment, so I guess they don't think it is declining here.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I've campaigned for some time to get these Bullfight Events replaced with Wifebeating Festivals.

After all, up until 1975 it wasn't even considered a crime, and judging by the statistics old habits die hard.

So you could turn up and beat your wife....or perhaps for a premium entry fee you could beat someone elses.

What a result.....another tradition upheld and a field still full of happy bulls!


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Apparently it is only about 30% of Spain that want the "activity" stopped.

Bullfighting Soon to be Banned in Spain? : Planetsave


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Sorry, I read the above wrong. It says that less than 30% of spanish citizens LIKE bullfighting!!!!!!!! That puts a different complex on it. 

How is it in the UK with fox-hunting now???!!!


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## paul.I.O.W (Jul 13, 2009)

On the island here the hunts still go out but use drag hunting method so they say!


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

XTreme said:


> I think it is banned in a number of provinces doggy....not sure which ones but I think Catalunya is one of them.


Also banned in the Canaries,....as I think is the "bull baiting",(common on the mainland), where they turn bulls loose in restricted area of towns and villages, for the locals idiots to goad them before diving over the safety barriers out of reach.

I believe they did have ox pulling contests on the islands to see which were the strongest at pulling heavy loads, but there were strict limits on how they could be used.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Chica said:


> Sorry, I read the above wrong. It says that less than 30% of spanish citizens LIKE bullfighting!!!!!!!! That puts a different complex on it.


I believe that most of the ones who like or approve of the traditional "bull fights", are in the older generation age group,....not such a large percentage of the younger ones,....another sign that popularity is waning.
A previous poster mentioned Jerez as still going strong, but it should be noted that the S.W.corner of Spain has always been one of the strongest traditional hotbeds of the activity.


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> I believe that most of the ones who like or approve of the traditional "bull fights", are in the older generation age group,....not such a large percentage of the younger ones,....another sign that popularity is waning.
> A previous poster mentioned Jerez as still going strong, but it should be noted that the S.W.corner of Spain has always been one of the strongest traditional hotbeds of the activity.


I hope, that like foxhunting, after a bit more time, the youngsters will put more pressure on to stop this. Anyway,I hope it be while I'm still around...lol


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

I don't agree with it at all but I'm an immigrant here so if the Spanish want to keep it or can it then I'll respect their choice.



Doggy


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

owdoggy said:


> I don't agree with it at all but I'm an immigrant here so if the Spanish want to keep it or can it then I'll respect their choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Doggy



I totally agree with you Doggy!! I hate it, its terrible, but I didnt come here to inflict my values! 

Jo xx


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## Ruff (Jul 22, 2009)

Fox hunting was banned in the UK from the end of 2004 (the law was implemented from Feb 2005) and they use drag hunts now - though I suspect some illegal hunting still happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if (eventually) bull fighting follows that route here - though I find Spain tends to be 20 years behind Northern Europe in doing anything.

For example how long ago did the UK ban the sale of dogs and cats in pet shops? The 1970s/80s I would guess and yet I still see those poor pups sitting in pools of their own muck in pet shops here (sorry second time I have mentioned it but its my current pet hate). About time this was out lawed too.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ruff said:


> Fox hunting was banned in the UK from the end of 2004 (the law was implemented from Feb 2005) and they use drag hunts now - though I suspect some illegal hunting still happens.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if (eventually) bull fighting follows that route here - though I find Spain tends to be 20 years behind Northern Europe in doing anything.
> 
> For example how long ago did the UK ban the sale of dogs and cats in pet shops? The 1970s/80s I would guess and yet I still see those poor pups sitting in pools of their own muck in pet shops here (sorry second time I have mentioned it but its my current pet hate). About time this was out lawed too.



Its funny the pet shop puppies dont worry me. In the UK I've seen infinately worse conditions in apparently legal kennels. Then you get puppy farms, legal and illegal and they too are very grim. Dogs kept in row upon row of little smelly wooden crates with little light or fresh air that they can barely stand in............. dont go there, it upsets me! At least the pet shops have to keep the puppies clean, healthy looking and happy. otherwise no one would buy them. They also take alot of details and do checks when selling them to prospective owners.

Jo xxx


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Ruff said:


> For example how long ago did the UK ban the sale of dogs and cats in pet shops? The 1970s/80s I would guess and yet I still see those poor pups sitting in pools of their own muck in pet shops here (sorry second time I have mentioned it but its my current pet hate). About time this was out lawed too.


I'm with Ruff on this. I can't stand seeing those dogs and cats in those little glass boxes. MAKES ME MAD! GGRRRRRR!!!!!:boxing:


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

jojo said:


> I totally agree with you Doggy!! I hate it, its terrible, but I didnt come here to inflict my values!
> 
> Jo xx


Nothing wrong in inflicting good values Jo.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Ruff said:


> Fox hunting was banned in the UK from the end of 2004 (the law was implemented from Feb 2005) and they use drag hunts now - though I suspect some illegal hunting still happens.
> .


Its true that due to loopholes in the law that some fox hunting still takes place.
I also wonder what will happen if the Tories go back to power with a very large majority,,which seems quite likely at present?
Its possible they could overturn the fox hunting law and throw out the ban making it legal again.


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## Ruff (Jul 22, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> Its true that due to loopholes in the law that some fox hunting still takes place.
> I also wonder what will happen if the Tories go back to power with a very large majority,,which seems quite likely at present?
> Its possible they could overturn the fox hunting law and throw out the ban making it legal again.


I think the Tories would be scared to go that far due to the overall general publics reaction....surely?


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Ruff said:


> I think the Tories would be scared to go that far due to the overall general publics reaction....surely?


They could end up between the devil and the deep blue sea.

As you say most likely an adverse public reaction if they changed the law, but on the other hand many of their staunchest supporters who may well be considered to be almost the backbone of the party, have strong expectations that they will overturn the ban.

Should be interesting.


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Not going to read the whole thread because I can guess what the majority of posts will be but just to put my tuppence in, I don't see what the problem is, its Spain's business and if they want to ban it or allow it to grow then its their business... me personally, I love it, no shame in saying so, I hunt and shoot here in the UK so to say I disagree would be hypocritical.


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Hurricane said:


> Not going to read the whole thread because I can guess what the majority of posts will be but just to put my tuppence in, I don't see what the problem is, its Spain's business and if they want to ban it or allow it to grow then its their business... me personally, I love it, no shame in saying so, I hunt and shoot here in the UK so to say I disagree would be hypocritical.


Shame on you.


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Chica said:


> Shame on you.


Not enough people these days stand up to be counted, we live in a PC nuts world where we pretend to agree just to avoid an argument and to stay in the "in" crowd...


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Hurricane said:


> Not enough people these days stand up to be counted, we live in a PC nuts world where we pretend to agree just to avoid an argument and to stay in the "in" crowd...


My point was that I can't understand why the toreador is believed to be so brave when the bull has been stabbed so many times before he gets to it??? And like a lot of others I hate to see pain deliberately inflicted on animals. OK, the bull is far bigger than a man but as the bull is so stupid charging after a red rag I don't find it entertaining at all.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chica said:


> My point was that I can't understand why the toreador is believed to be so brave when the bull has been stabbed so many times before he gets to it??? And like a lot of others I hate to see pain deliberately inflicted on animals. OK, the bull is far bigger than a man but as the bull is so stupid charging after a red rag I don't find it entertaining at all.


Chica, why are you from the USA and living in the USA on your header thingy??

Jo xxx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

I could have sworn I called her on a Spanish number yesterday!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Chica, why are you from the USA and living in the USA on your header thingy??
> 
> Jo xxx


I was thinking exactly the same thing. As Will and Jack will NOT tell about their jobs (another thread), will you please tell us how come you've changed nationality so quickly?!

Waiting with baited breath...


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I hope Chica doesn't start Line Dancing and watching NASCAR now!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> I hope Chica doesn't start Line Dancing and watching NASCAR now!



Actually, Chica is having trouble getting onto the forum according to Facebook. Is there anything you can do Xtreme??

Jo xxx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> Actually, Chica is having trouble getting onto the forum according to Facebook. Is there anything you can do Xtreme??
> 
> Jo xxx


The forum software is running fine so the problem's not here Jo. It'll be on her system somewhere.....and could be any number of things.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> The forum software is running fine so the problem's not here Jo. It'll be on her system somewhere.....and could be any number of things.



Can you get intouch with her?


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

jojo said:


> Can you get intouch with her?


INCOMING!!! 

Maggie's just phoned me - wanted an update on Dave's course through France on his way back to UK as he texted us earlier (hi Dave!! if you get to read this at some point).

It appears that her account has been blocked or whatever - she cannot access the forum and would appreciate if XT could unlock or revalidate her account so she can join in. Thanks!! Tally.xxxx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> INCOMING!!!
> 
> Maggie's just phoned me - wanted an update on Dave's course through France on his way back to UK as he texted us earlier (hi Dave!! if you get to read this at some point).
> 
> It appears that her account has been blocked or whatever - she cannot access the forum and would appreciate if XT could unlock or revalidate her account so she can join in. Thanks!! Tally.xxxx


I'm not a Mod or Admin here Tally....I'm just a member. I have no access to anything.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

I didn't mean that. I just meant as the computer guru here perhaps you could advise?


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> I didn't mean that. I just meant as the computer guru here perhaps you could advise?


If her account is blocked on here.....maybe she tried to login with the wrong password so the system has suspended it....then only Bob can unlock it I'm afraid.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> I'm not a Mod or Admin here Tally....I'm just a member. I have no access to anything.



I cant help her either, sadly! 

Jo xx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> I cant help her either, sadly!
> 
> Jo xx


Jo....do any of the other Mods have Admin CP access if Bob isn't on?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Jo....do any of the other Mods have Admin CP access if Bob isn't on?


No that I know of. I've Pmd Bob and he usually doesnt take long to answer!!? Altho at this time of night he's probably asleep!! Too bloody hot to sleep here!! 

Jo xx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

XTreme said:


> If her account is blocked on here.....maybe she tried to login with the wrong password so the system has suspended it....then only Bob can unlock it I'm afraid.


Yes hopefully it will be something silly like that...you know us girls ....queue one of your links to "Women Know Your Place"!!! Hopefully it'll get sorted soon. Just a thought though, whilst incorrect passwords might log the account, wouldn't she be able to see the site as a visitor anyway? Cos apparently she can't even do that! Anyway, what do I know???

Tally.xxx


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

So... bullfighting...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hurricane said:


> So... bullfighting...


We've had a bit of "thread drift" going on!!!!! :clap2:

Jo xxx


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> We've had a bit of "thread drift" going on!!!!! :clap2:
> 
> Jo xxx


Shameful, are there no Mods on duty here?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hurricane said:


> Shameful, are there no Mods on duty here?


Ahh, but there is a link, however tenuous it might be! We're discussing "Chica" and this is Chicas thread!!!! See!! 

Jo xxx


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> Ahh, but there is a link, however tenuous it might be! We're discussing "Chica" and this is Chicas thread!!!! See!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Tenuous to say the lest!


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Hello again all...well I'm back from the USA :confused2::noidea: Whatever the problem was it has now been sorted so I would like to thank whoever it was that fixed it...thank you.:kiss:

Also, thanks for all your concerns especially Jo and Tally. I panicked when I couldn't get on. It's sad to say but I feel this is my home now :loco: and that I have met some lovely people on here (anybody would think I had been away for weeks...lol)!!

So, back to normal. Got a bit of reading to do so catch ya later.

Chica. xx


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

XTreme said:


> I hope Chica doesn't start Line Dancing and watching NASCAR now!


Well, funny you should say that. The linedancing thing anyway


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I was thinking exactly the same thing. As Will and Jack will NOT tell about their jobs (another thread), will you please tell us how come you've changed nationality so quickly?!
> 
> Waiting with baited breath...


Well, I set off to the USA at 6pm last night and returned at 7pm of the same night..lane:. That was the quickest flight in history so it could only have been by rocket...lol. lane:

Seriously tho, somehow the settings got changed, how, I don't know but hopefully it will stay as it should be now.


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