# Validation trip in Sydney



## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

Hi,

We recently booked tickets from New York (JFK) to Sydney for travel between May 4 and May 11. We (wife and 10 month old son) are going to be spending 5 days in Sydney (landing on May 6 around 6:30am and leaving May 11 around 10am) and had a few general questions:

1. Getting around: We rented a car through enterprise. We are going to pick it up from the terminal. Since we have a baby, we asked for a baby seat and have also asked for a GPS. Are the baby seats rented through car rental companies comfortable enough? Are there other options at the airport for baby seats? Also, is the GPS unit worth the cost (we were charged AUD 45 for the whole trip which can be reversed if we decide not to use it)? Or should we use google maps for navigation (we plan to buy a sim card)? We don't plan to go to any remote locations. Will mostly be staying in the Sydney area. 

2. Sim card: I know there is an Optus and Vodafone store at the international terminal. Which one would you recommend? We don't plan to go too far from the Sydney area so coverage wise which would be better? I know Telstra is the best but don't think they have a store at the airport. Whatever sim car I get, will it still be valid when we permanently move about a year later?

3. Accommodation: We plan to book an AirBnb so what areas would you recommend that are at a 30-45 min driving distance from the airport? Our trip is going to be for 5 nights so we are looking for some place safe, not too expensive (upto 100 AUD per night) and has a atleast one supermarket (or even a local grocery store). We are open to a studio or 1br apt. 

4. Flights: We are flying from JFK to LAX (Los Angeles) and LAX to Sydney through Virgin Australia. I am a little anxious about the LAX to Sydney flight as it almost 16 hours long with a baby. Has anyone flown long distance with Virgin Australia with a child? How was your experience? Since we booked last minute, we were unable to secure any bassinet seats so most likely we are going to have to travel with the baby on our laps. 

5. Attractions: We are still planning on what we would do once we get to Sydney. So any suggestions on what we should definitely check out would be great. Please note that we would prefer places that we can drive to. Want to avoid the hassle of using public transport with a child.

6. Driving: I want to go over the traffic and driving rules in Australia/Sydney. Any pointers would be great. I am a little nervous though as driving in the US is the opposite of driving in Australia. I just hope I don't screw up.

7. Car insurance: I am not sure how car insurance works in Australia but I do understand that the car we are renting already has some baseline insurance. What other insurance would you recommend we take? I want to play it safe so please suggest an option where if God forbid we are in an accident, I can simply walk away without having to pay anything. 

8. Health insurance: We currently have health insurance here in the US and it will cover only 80% of the costs incurred overseas (that to after satisfying a $3000 deductible). In case we need to use emergency medical services, will we be able to use Medicare (since we have PR) without registering?

9. Cash: I have read on several forums online that cash is really not that necessary as almost all places accept credit cards. Also, since I have an account with Bank of America and they have an international affiliation with Westpac, I should be able to use my debit card at Westpac atm's without charge. How widespread are Westpac ATM's in Sydney? Are there any at the airport? We still plan to carry about 500 USD that we can use for exchanging in case of emergencies. Do you think this is good enough given we are going to book almost everything before arriving? Any other thoughts on the necessity of cash?


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## seventyseven (Jan 24, 2017)

arpithjain said:


> Hi,
> 
> We recently booked tickets from New York (JFK) to Sydney for travel between May 4 and May 11. We (wife and 10 month old son) are going to be spending 5 days in Sydney (landing on May 6 around 6:30am and leaving May 11 around 10am) and had a few general questions:
> 
> ...


1) Yes, baby seats should be comfortable (and safe) enough but maybe drop them an email and ask about the exact model. The GPS is not worth the cost. Use your smartphone and download the greater Sydney area in Google Maps for offline use - that should also do the trick. You don't even need to have mobile data enabled for that. But since you mention that you don't plan to leave Sydney, I wonder why you need a car at all? Sydney has a great train/ferry/bus network of public transportation - so you might want to consider that as you get to see more and you don't have to pay for parking.

2) Mhm. All prepaids I know expire after 28 days, so you'd need to top up your prepaid card on a monthly base and probably can't/won't use your credit before you return to Down Under. If you wish to present an Australian phone number on your CV I'd recommend to get a VoIP number instead (i.e. Skype) as it's much cheaper. As for the carrier, I'd go with boost.com.au - they offer very competitive prices and are on the Telstra network (which is arguably better than Optus and Vodafone).

3) Check out Regent's Court Sydney (Potts Point) - https://regentscourtsydney.com.au. I stayed there during my last visit to Sydney and found it extremely good value for your money. The apartments are large, they have a fully stocket kitchenette and the hotel is situated in a very quiet road. Also, there are many grocery stores just around the corner.

4) That's a tough one... So far I have never had an issue with long-haul flights EU-AU as my kid seems to enjoy them (he is already 6 though), but with a baby on your laps for 16 hours wouldn't dare to make any predictions. :fingerscrossed:

5) Again, in terms of "hassle" I'd recommend public transportation a gazillion times over renting yourself a car for getting around in Sydney. As for attractions I would recommend to check out CBD, Botanic Gardens, Harbour Bridge, Taronga Zoo, Manly and Bondi just to name a few. A day trip to the Blue Mountains (also easily accessible via train) is also recommendable.

6) Best of luck with that.  I am not familiar with the driving rules in the US - but at least the European driving rules don't differ too much from the driving rules in Down Under. So I guess there won't be too much of a difference to the US rules either.

7) There are insurances like that but they'll cost you. Whatever you decide, book them online before you arrive at the station to pick up your car as I can guarantee you that the guy behind the counter will try his best to talk you into buying additional safety-packages at a premium price. I usually book cars at rentalcars.com as their insurances cover most accidents (not all though, so-called single-vehicle accidents where wildlife is involved are not covered).

8) No, you'll need to enrol for Medicare before you can make any claims.

9) Carrying around US$ 500,- seems a little weird - you're not travelling to a third-world country.  Also, exchange rates for cash are usually worse than those that ATMs use to convert the AU$ you withdraw into your debit card's home currency. There is an abundance of ATMs in Sydney and almost every store accepts credit cards (although, a small surcharge for CC payments might occur) so I'd suggest that you don't bring US$, withdraw cash in AU$ whenever you need it and bring along a Visa or Mastercard for cashless payments.


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## basu_sb (Nov 2, 2014)

arpithjain, 
Are you planning to visit Sydney for visa validation trip ? I have got NSW state nomination last year and have to make entry before 12/07/17. Planning for a quick validation trip to Sydney to keep the VISA activated.Wanted to understand is there any minimum no. of days limitation that you have to spend for the first time entry and is there any formalities to complete like to report any govt offices like DIBP, centrelink ? BTW, I have been to Sydney before for around 2 yrs but that was on 457 visa. I am planning to explore AIRBNB this time.


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## spprivate (Aug 22, 2012)

basu_sb said:


> arpithjain,
> Are you planning to visit Sydney for visa validation trip ? I have got NSW state nomination last year and have to make entry before 12/07/17. Planning for a quick validation trip to Sydney to keep the VISA activated.Wanted to understand is there any minimum no. of days limitation that you have to spend for the first time entry and is there any formalities to complete like to report any govt offices like DIBP, centrelink ? BTW, I have been to Sydney before for around 2 yrs but that was on 457 visa. I am planning to explore AIRBNB this time.



Even if you just land get out of immigration and take next flight back,your validation is done.There is no minimum stay period


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## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

Thanks @Seventyseven. 

I cancelled my enterprise rental and used your suggestion to use rentalcars.com. Got a much better deal for the same car type with good insurance options. Ironically, I still have to pick up the car from Redspot which is an Enterprise location. 

Will definitely check out Boost for phone needs. 

I agree that a rental car is not necessary but the wife insists (ordered?) on getting one so can't argue with that  

Thanks for your suggestion on cash. Looks like the best option as you suggested is to just use my bank's debit card at an ATM in AUS to withdraw AUS dollars. Also found out that my bank here (Bank of America) has an affiliation with Westpac which means I can withdraw upto USD1000 for free from Westpac's ATM's. I do see a Westpac ATM in the international terminal of Sydney airport and several atm's all over the city so I guess cash is not going to be an issue. 

Thanks again for your post. Any other suggestions are welcome. We are super excited and anxious at the same time. Hoping everything is smooth.


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## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

Landed in Sydney two days ago. Immigration was a breeze. Just asked for our passports, scanned them and waved us through. i have been through immigration counters at a few different countries and have never been so underwhelmed. Not a single question asked. Only 4 words spoken in total "Passports please" and a "Thank You" from us. We were out of the airport about an hour later. 

Real fun started after that. Driving was not easy  Got honked 7 times in a 12km drive to our Airbnb. Apparently I wasn't maintaining lane discipline. In my defense, I have been driving in the US for the past 7 years on the right side. Adjusting to driving on the left in a first world country was not as easy as I thought it would be. I have driven extensively in India but that experience did not come in handy as I had to follow so many rules down here  Anyway, 2 days later, I am pro on Aussie roads now. I hope I don't forget how to drive when I get back to the US in 3 days. 

First day was spent resting. We went to Bondi beach yesterday and have made plans for Taronga zoo and Sydney harbor/Opera house. Will end with shopping on Wednesday. 

In the 2 days we have been here, our experience has been truly amazing. I am impressed with how easy, cheap and clean public transportation is in this city. We feel like we wasted money renting a car. We didn't even drive that much. A grant total of 50kms (12 of which were from the airport to our accommodation) so far and we don't anticipate more driving as getting to the zoo and opera house is much easier and lesser hassle with public transport. 

Had some amazing Thai food at Bondi beach. I thought portions were huge in the US but the Thai curry we ordered came in the biggest bowl ever. We were super hungry and still couldn't finish it. We packed the rest and took it home for dinner. So, a bowl of thai curry can feed 4 people. Side note: apparently you need to order rice separately with dishes here. When we asked the waitress if our curry came with a side of rice (all Asian dishes in the US come with a free side of rice), she gave us a puzzled look (like I asked for her kidney or something). So we ordered rice separately. 

Grocery was about 50% more expensive compared to the US. We expected this but were still surprised at how much we paid for so little. Alcohol was particularly quite expensive. Funny story: Apparently you can't take your grocery cart out of the store here. You need to return the cart to where you picked it from and carry your bags to your car. I didn't know that and happily wheeled the cart out of the store and one of the attendants came running out to inform us. So there we are transferring our bags from the cart to our baby stroller all the while explaining to the nice lady that we are not trying to steal the cart. We are new to the country and it is quite common (almost necessary) in the US to wheel grocery and other carts to our car. Lucky for us that we had a stroller as there were 12 bags of grocery, 4 hands to carry them and about half km walk to our car. 

People are really nice here. They would offer to help carry our baby stroller (Called trams here btw. Learning something new everyday ) into the train/bus. Even on the flight there was an Australian family sitting behind us (3 kids and parents) who offered to take care of our son who was being extra fussy, while we ate our dinner. Our Airbnb host even offered to babysit our son so we could check out the local bars/nightlife. We plan to take her up on that offer tonight. 

So far our experience has been positive and we can see ourselves living here in the future. We did find everyday things expensive but I guess that is the price you pay for a high quality of life. Here is to 3 more days of Aussie awesomeness and hope to be back for good soon.


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## basu_sb (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi Arpith, 
Thanks for the much detailed narration, which is really helpful for others in the queue  I am planning 
to land in Sydney for a validation trip on June 1st week. In Melbourne and Sydney public transport is so good, there is no need to hire a car and you rightly said people are really helpful out here. Though I have been to Sydney earlier for about 2 years but that was on work visa, still would like to get some recommendation from you related to short term travel. 
1. How was the overall AIRBNB experience and which suburb you have taken accommodation. I used to stay in western sub in my previous stint but this time planning to explore central or northern suburb. 
2. What internet plan you have choosen which is suitable for 3-4 days travel ? Optus / Lebara ? 
3. Did customs official made any stamping in the passports at the immigration counter ? Hope this is not required anymore as everything e-Visa now. 

PS: Bondi beach is no doubt the best and most hyped beach NSW have but don`t miss Manly beach either. Ferry ride from Circular quay to Manly is a real fun and best way to explore Sydney Harbor where the ferry sails below the harbor bridge. Best opportunity to shoot Harbor bridge and opera hours.Enjoy your stay in down under.


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## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

basu_sb said:


> Hi Arpith,
> Thanks for the much detailed narration, which is really helpful for others in the queue  I am planning
> to land in Sydney for a validation trip on June 1st week. In Melbourne and Sydney public transport is so good, there is no need to hire a car and you rightly said people are really helpful out here. Though I have been to Sydney earlier for about 2 years but that was on work visa, still would like to get some recommendation from you related to short term travel.
> 1. How was the overall AIRBNB experience and which suburb you have taken accommodation. I used to stay in western sub in my previous stint but this time planning to explore central or northern suburb.


Airbnb is always great. We almost exclusively use Airbnb for all our trips. I have used it in the US, Canada and now Australia and never had any issues. 
Our Airbnb is in Sylvania. It is south of the airport so I guess a southern suburb? Very nice place. Quite and peaceful. Infact so quiet that I had difficulty sleeping as I am used to a bit of road noise at night. 



> 2. What internet plan you have choosen which is suitable for 3-4 days travel ? Optus / Lebara ?


I used Telestra. I hear they have the most extensive network (and the best).They have a $10 offer where you get a sim, unlimited talk and text within Australia and 1GB high speed data. All of this for a week which was good enough for us. There is no store at the airport. We got the sim from the local Woolsworth grocery store. 




> 3. Did customs official made any stamping in the passports at the immigration counter ? Hope this is not required anymore as everything e-Visa now.


Nope. No stamp on passport. 



> PS: Bondi beach is no doubt the best and most hyped beach NSW have but don`t miss Manly beach either. Ferry ride from Circular quay to Manly is a real fun and best way to explore Sydney Harbor where the ferry sails below the harbor bridge. Best opportunity to shoot Harbor bridge and opera hours.Enjoy your stay in down under.


Even our Airbnb host suggested Manly beach but our next 3 days is fully packed and will most likely not be able to get to Manly beach. Maybe when we come back for good.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

arpithjain said:


> Apparently you can't take your grocery cart out of the store here. You need to return the cart to where you picked it from and carry your bags to your car. I didn't know that and happily wheeled the cart out of the store and one of the attendants came running out to inform us. So there we are transferring our bags from the cart to our baby stroller all the while explaining to the nice lady that we are not trying to steal the cart. We are new to the country and it is quite common (almost necessary) in the US to wheel grocery and other carts to our car. Lucky for us that we had a stroller as there were 12 bags of grocery, 4 hands to carry them and about half km walk to our car.


With bigger chain supermarkets which have big carparks (Coles, Woolworths, Aldi, etc) you can always take your shopping trolley to the car. Put it back in one of the nearby collection points in the carpark when you're done. 



arpithjain said:


> People are really nice here. They would offer to help carry our baby stroller (Called trams here btw.)


Prams, not trams.


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## Zidane's Daddy (Feb 28, 2017)

Hey Arpith, just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experience. Is going to help a lot of newbies who plan to do their trips down to OZ 

Cheers!


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## sachinleo80 (Jul 24, 2016)

arpithjain said:


> Landed in Sydney two days ago. Immigration was a breeze. Just asked for our passports, scanned them and waved us through. i have been through immigration counters at a few different countries and have never been so underwhelmed. Not a single question asked. Only 4 words spoken in total "Passports please" and a "Thank You" from us. We were out of the airport about an hour later.
> 
> Real fun started after that. Driving was not easy  Got honked 7 times in a 12km drive to our Airbnb. Apparently I wasn't maintaining lane discipline. In my defense, I have been driving in the US for the past 7 years on the right side. Adjusting to driving on the left in a first world country was not as easy as I thought it would be. I have driven extensively in India but that experience did not come in handy as I had to follow so many rules down here  Anyway, 2 days later, I am pro on Aussie roads now. I hope I don't forget how to drive when I get back to the US in 3 days.
> 
> ...




Amazing!! Please share your overall experience at the end of your trip too!!

All the best and enjoy your vacation on PR


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

A tip for anyone flying with little ones. We flew 24 hours each way with two toddlers (1 year old and 2 year old) for our validation trip. We used two bedboxes (here). They were an absolute lifesaver. We took the middle section on the our A380 flights (4 seats across) and basically made a double bed in between us two parents. It transformed a nightmare journey into one that was bearable. Do check if your chosen airline allows them, however.


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## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

Thanks for all wishes and tips here. We returned home yesterday around 4am. Travel was exhausting but pleasant as flights were almost half empty both ways. This validation trip has been great. We were kinda sad that we had to leave but also happy that we might end up moving here soon. We did the city tour and Taronga zoo on our last couple of days. Saw some of the most exotic animals and a great seal show. 

I wanted to provide some insight into my experience and will compare it to life here in the US. Obviously, I am no expert as I only spent 6 days and all of those in Sydney so take all of this with mountains of salt  

Cost - From our brief stay here we figured that the cost of living is atleast 50% higher that it is in the US. For instance, a liter of petrol is about AUD1.35 (~USD 1). In the US, it is about half of that. Same goes for food - milk, bread, groceries etc. all cost atleast twice. We knew about this beforehand so this wasn't a surprise. 

Weather - aahhh the weather. It was perfect. We loved how sunny it was most of the time. One thing you come to appreciate after living in northeastern US for 7 years is sunlight. We get so little of it here. Our Airbnb host thought it was weird that something as simple as sunlight excited us so much  We were lucky that it was sunny for all 6 days that we were there. 

Driving - We felt driving is more fun in the US. Roads were narrow with several twists and turns. My wife got nauseous several times and almost threw up twice. All this after driving a mere 200 km. Do people take road trips in Australia? We typically go about 1 road trip a month that averages about 500 miles (800 km). Even the speed limits were no fun. The highest I got to drive at was 80kmph on the M5. But we felt people drove much better in Australia. Didn't see any idiots speeding in their flashy cars. Speed limits were strictly followed and there was a general sense of respect for fellow travelers on the road - something that is sorely lacking in the US. Also, the roads were much better quality - I don't think we encountered any potholes for the time we were there. 

Cleanliness - we were pleasantly surprised to find how clean and green the city was. We toured it extensively and am happy to say there were hardly any unsavory sights or weird smells. Even the train stations were clean. The suburbs were nice too. Beautiful houses with trees everywhere. Compare this to New York’s concrete jungle where if you walk long enough, you will be flashed by a homeless guy or be subject to a torrent of **** smells and don't even get me started on New York's trains and subway stations. Granted New York has twice as many people but still that is no excuse for filth everywhere. 

Diversity - met a lot a people from different countries. We were amazed by how many nationalities were represented in Sydney. 

There was one thing that bothered us though. Not sure if this is representative of Sydney or any other Aussie city but we didn't see many Indians. We saw several Asian nationals (China, Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, etc) but surprisingly not as many Indians. Lack of Indians was not what concerned us but rather the fact that most Indians we encountered mostly worked in low skilled jobs - petrol station attendants, train station cleaners, airport security, etc. I am not trying to demean any of these jobs but it struck us as odd that most Indians we met were working such jobs. I spent sometime talking to a 7-11 attendant and he seemed pretty disgruntled with his life and future prospects. He was from Tamil Nadu and had been in Sydney for almost a year and hasn't been able to secure a permanent job. Back home he was a project manager for a mid-size IT company. He complained that prior experience doesn't matter in Australia and he has been struggling and continues to struggle with convincing Australian employers to take a chance with him. He further said that there are several people like him who are forced to take up such jobs while looking for employment so he wasn't surprised that many Indians were working in low skilled jobs. I told him that we live in the US and are considering moving to Sydney permanently in a year. His response was and I quote "Why would you leave the US and move to Australia? If I had an H1b visa, I would never leave". Luckily this interaction was at the end of our trip when we were driving back to the airport and stopped at 7-11 to tank up the rental car but this encounter left a bad taste. I couldn't help but ask the question - Am I doing the right thing? My reason for considering Australia was simple - I am frustrated with US immigration policy. I have lived here for almost 7 years and still have about 15 - 20 years of wait before I can get a green card. It would be quicker to have my son who is a US citizen by birth sponsor my green card when he turns 18. But if there are no prospects down there, then I might have to reconsider my strategy. Don't get me wrong - we have a comfortable life here in terms of good salary, house, car etc. The problem is the H1b visa that I am on makes life very unpredictable for us. Anytime we leave the US and need a new H1b visa stamp to reenter, it gives us nightmares. There were atleast 2 occasions when I had to cancel or postpone travel overseas because of H1b issues. And not to mention the current anti-immigrant wave in the US that specifically targets H1b abuses has added more scrutiny to an already difficult visa. 

I know the topic of jobs in Australia has been discussed to death in other threads but want to invite more experienced members to give their 2 cents. I am not going to base my decision of moving to Australia on one bad conversation I had but would certainly appreciate more insights. How big a deal is this local experience thing I keep hearing about? I recently changed jobs and my new company does have an office in Sydney and the plan was to talk about a transfer a year or so down the line. Does this sound like a good plan? I think what would be most useful is if people could talk about their job search experience and share strategies and tips that would be helpful.


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## Rahul_UK183 (Mar 30, 2017)

arpithjain said:


> Thanks for all wishes and tips here. We returned home yesterday around 4am. Travel was exhausting but pleasant as flights were almost half empty both ways. This validation trip has been great. We were kinda sad that we had to leave but also happy that we might end up moving here soon. We did the city tour and Taronga zoo on our last couple of days. Saw some of the most exotic animals and a great seal show.
> 
> I wanted to provide some insight into my experience and will compare it to life here in the US. Obviously, I am no expert as I only spent 6 days and all of those in Sydney so take all of this with mountains of salt
> 
> ...


Very insightful post, thanks for sharing your exp.

Needless to say but moving to Aus via an internal company transfer is the simplest and easiest of all options in my honest opinion. Finding a transfer may not be easy but once done you would be killing numerous birds with one stone.

If the transfer doesn't work then I am told-

1) Applying for jobs from overseas doesn't fructify in most cases, you got to be locally present for interviews.

2) If you are locally present for interviews, the wait can be indefinitely long. Unless you have a niche skillset or a good luck it appears to be very difficult to crack a job. You got to come with very good savings and maybe without the family initially.

3) 189 or 190 will again put you in a sticky situation in terms of work location depending on the demand of jobs. If you are 189 then atleast this won't be an issue.
I see a lot of people restricted because of 190.

These are my thoughts/observations so far. I work with an MNC and will be targeting for an internal transfer hands down once I have my PR.




Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

Rahul_UK183 said:


> Very insightful post, thanks for sharing your exp.
> 
> Needless to say but moving to Aus via an internal company transfer is the simplest and easiest of all options in my honest opinion. Finding a transfer may not be easy but once done you would be killing numerous birds with one stone.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rahul. Appreciate your input. Yes, I will be working my ass off to get that internal transfer to Sydney through my company. Hopefully it will work out. And good luck with your PR process. 

My wife and I still can't get over the fact that most Indians we saw in Sydney were working low skilled jobs. Would love to hear from Indians already in Sydney about this. We were only there for 6 days so maybe what we saw isn't representative of the situation on the ground (hopefully that is the case) but it was concerning nonetheless.


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## basu_sb (Nov 2, 2014)

arpithjain said:


> Thanks Rahul. Appreciate your input. Yes, I will be working my ass off to get that internal transfer to Sydney through my company. Hopefully it will work out. And good luck with your PR process.
> 
> My wife and I still can't get over the fact that most Indians we saw in Sydney were working low skilled jobs. Would love to hear from Indians already in Sydney about this. We were only there for 6 days so maybe what we saw isn't representative of the situation on the ground (hopefully that is the case) but it was concerning nonetheless.


Arpith, there are significant number of Indian workforce present in Sydney who are in so called white-collar job. I think reason you did not noticed them because you stayed at the eastern suburb which has less Indian communities. Most of the Indian population is concentrated at inner-west, western and too some extent northern suburbs. Trust me you`ll never feel you are outside India if you are in some places like Parramatta, Westmead, Wentworthill etc. You have to be at the Central or Wynyard station at the peak office hours to feel the Indian workforce at Sydney. In Australia, unless you are commuting through train and visiting the pubs or coffee shop you can`t get the actual picture. This is something I felt significantly different from US based on my own experience of staying at both the places.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

arpithjain said:


> Thanks Rahul. Appreciate your input. Yes, I will be working my ass off to get that internal transfer to Sydney through my company. Hopefully it will work out. And good luck with your PR process.
> 
> My wife and I still can't get over the fact that most Indians we saw in Sydney were working low skilled jobs. Would love to hear from Indians already in Sydney about this. We were only there for 6 days so maybe what we saw isn't representative of the situation on the ground (hopefully that is the case) but it was concerning nonetheless.


I think the laws of supply and demand will play out in Sydney as much as anywhere else. The fact is that the DIBP points system has enabled a very large group of Indian migrants with little experience and degrees from what are (rightly or wrongly) considered as less desirable universities to head over to NSW and Victoria. A couple who graduated from uni with an IT bachelors and only 24 months experience can make it to Australia, and thousands have done so. They will be competing against peers from Aussie unis who have native English skills and extensive experience of functioning in Australian culture. With hundreds of migrants entering the market each month, the majority with little experience and all of that experience from another culture... you're going to find the competition tough.

Add to this the numbers of the same that are being exploited by 457 and, unfairly, by association this will make it difficult for Indian migrants who don't fit that profile; i.e. good experience, practical skills, a history of working in a similar environment. Your task is to differentiate yourself. One way is by getting that transfer. That will give you the foothold you need to stand out from the crowd. Your English ability already marks you up also.

Although I'm sure there are neighbourhoods with far more Indian nationals (though this in itself is worrying as they are either unable to settle in higher cost neighbourhoods or self selecting to form enclaves - neither of which are positive) I think migrating to a new country with a thin profile is risky. Doing so alongside thousands of others with very similar backgrounds is doubly so. 

I really do worry when I read the posts here sometimes. For every poster like you - aware, savvy, rightfully cautious - there are 5 posting "when can I expect my visa?" and then asking strikingly naive questions about Australia. I wish them all the best, but fear the worst.


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## Rahul_UK183 (Mar 30, 2017)

FFacs said:


> I think the laws of supply and demand will play out in Sydney as much as anywhere else. The fact is that the DIBP points system has enabled a very large group of Indian migrants with little experience and degrees from what are (rightly or wrongly) considered as less desirable universities to head over to NSW and Victoria. A couple who graduated from uni with an IT bachelors and only 24 months experience can make it to Australia, and thousands have done so. They will be competing against peers from Aussie unis who have native English skills and extensive experience of functioning in Australian culture. With hundreds of migrants entering the market each month, the majority with little experience and all of that experience from another culture... you're going to find the competition tough.
> 
> Add to this the numbers of the same that are being exploited by 457 and, unfairly, by association this will make it difficult for Indian migrants who don't fit that profile; i.e. good experience, practical skills, a history of working in a similar environment. Your task is to differentiate yourself. One way is by getting that transfer. That will give you the foothold you need to stand out from the crowd. Your English ability already marks you up also.
> 
> ...


Sad but true and you have indeed raised a vital and very alarming concern.

Having spent good time on expat forum I am in complete agreement with your comments.

Migration is happening at a mind boggling rate with even rookies applying as much as experienced professionals, age points working in a lot of fresher cases.

DIBP is properly milking 189 / 190 and I believe they should rethink the criteria given the latest cutoffs, some crazy backlogs I see. 

I have nothing against the freshers but I feel they are being misled to a great extent and falling into the 'all is easy and good' in Aus and migrating is going to change their fortunes trap.

To add to this the looming fear that IT industry at broad is subjected to in future, very concerning. 

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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

Rahul_UK183 said:


> Sad but true and you have indeed raised a vital and very alarming concern.
> 
> Having spent good time on expat forum I am in complete agreement with your comments.
> 
> ...


The numbers each year for the Migration Program are set by Parliament, not by DIBP.

Similarly the allocations within the Skilled Migration Program are set by the Department of Employment in line with their research (along with other Government Departments).

DIBP does not control either of these parameters, so it would be quite wrong to suggest they are "milking" anything. 

Although the cost of visas is high, but it does not cover the cost of running DIBP.


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## Rahul_UK183 (Mar 30, 2017)

kaju said:


> The numbers each year for the Migration Program are set by Parliament, not by DIBP.
> 
> Similarly the allocations within the Skilled Migration Program are set by the Department of Employment in line with their research (along with other Government Departments).
> 
> ...


Ok my apologies in calling out DIBP. I was anyway referring to the relevant body.

These "research", would you say they are real and effective ? They are definitely not in sync with the number of people applying for PR to number of jobs available. Appreciate it can't be precise but I dont think they are even close.

The research especially matters a lot for the 190 sponsored people.



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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

Rahul_UK183 said:


> Ok my apologies in calling out DIBP. I was anyway referring to the relevant body.
> 
> These "research", would you say they are real and effective ? They are definitely not in sync with the number of people applying for PR to number of jobs available. Appreciate it can't be precise but I dont think they are even close.
> 
> ...


Supposedly these Government Departments are able to gauge the need in different areas of employment and then they effectively set the occupation limits for DIBP to process. Personally, I suspect that like most Government Departments anywhere, they are probably often using data that may be outdated by a couple of years or more, by the time the numbers are alllocated to DIBP.

I don't think it's a huge issue for Australia - as it generally has a growing economy, for many years now migration numbers have been high - but individuals that do choose to migrate should do their own research and understand that they may not get employment quickly, they may have to find alternative employment, etc.

This is not just true for Australia of course, same thing happens in quite a few places if you migrate. Fortunately, most migrants tend to be young, skilled and perhaps more important, flexible, and most understand they may have to sacrifice to reach their longer-term goals. Then, if they are lucky, and things do work out quickly, it;s a great bonus!


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## rvd (May 21, 2016)

kaju said:


> Supposedly these Government Departments are able to gauge the need in different areas of employment and then they effectively set the occupation limits for DIBP to process. Personally, I suspect that like most Government Departments anywhere, they are probably often using data that may be outdated by a couple of years or more, by the time the numbers are alllocated to DIBP.
> 
> I don't think it's a huge issue for Australia - as it generally has a growing economy, for many years now migration numbers have been high - but individuals that do choose to migrate should do their own research and understand that they may not get employment quickly, they may have to find alternative employment, etc.
> 
> This is not just true for Australia of course, same thing happens in quite a few places if you migrate. Fortunately, most migrants tend to be young, skilled and perhaps more important, flexible, and most understand they may have to sacrifice to reach their longer-term goals. Then, if they are lucky, and things do work out quickly, it;s a great bonus!


Other thing what I personally felt is that Government will issue more invite/grants than the current requirements of the country since many people may not come to Australia after the grant. To balance this attrition Government has to increase the numbers than the actual requirements.

Your thoughts will be helpful for understanding.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

rvd said:


> Other thing what I personally felt is that Government will issue more invite/grants than the current requirements of the country since many people may not come to Australia after the grant. To balance this attrition Government has to increase the numbers than the actual requirements.
> 
> Your thoughts will be helpful for understanding.


More invites on a rolling basis, yes, as not all may be used, as you say. But they can't issue more than the Skilled Migration limits allow all at once - in case they were all accepted! 

In terms of grant numbers, DIBP can NOT exceed the numbers already approved for the Migration Program for each financial year, by Parliament. That is set each year by Parliament and is legislated - that is, the numbers are set by law. 

That is why the grants of skilled visas slow right down at this time of year - DIBP can not under any circumstances exceed the legislated number of places approved by Parliament.


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## arpithjain (Sep 21, 2016)

> Arpith, there are significant number of Indian workforce present in Sydney who are in so called white-collar job. I think reason you did not noticed them because you stayed at the eastern suburb which has less Indian communities. Most of the Indian population is concentrated at inner-west, western and too some extent northern suburbs. Trust me you`ll never feel you are outside India if you are in some places like Parramatta, Westmead, Wentworthill etc. You have to be at the Central or Wynyard station at the peak office hours to feel the Indian workforce at Sydney. In Australia, unless you are commuting through train and visiting the pubs or coffee shop you can`t get the actual picture. This is something I felt significantly different from US based on my own experience of staying at both the places.


Ok that makes more sense. Now that I think about it, we traveled in trains mostly during non peak hours. Thanks for the clarification Basu. 



> I think the laws of supply and demand will play out in Sydney as much as anywhere else. The fact is that the DIBP points system has enabled a very large group of Indian migrants with little experience and degrees from what are (rightly or wrongly) considered as less desirable universities to head over to NSW and Victoria. A couple who graduated from uni with an IT bachelors and only 24 months experience can make it to Australia, and thousands have done so. They will be competing against peers from Aussie unis who have native English skills and extensive experience of functioning in Australian culture. With hundreds of migrants entering the market each month, the majority with little experience and all of that experience from another culture... you're going to find the competition tough.
> 
> Add to this the numbers of the same that are being exploited by 457 and, unfairly, by association this will make it difficult for Indian migrants who don't fit that profile; i.e. good experience, practical skills, a history of working in a similar environment. Your task is to differentiate yourself. One way is by getting that transfer. That will give you the foothold you need to stand out from the crowd. Your English ability already marks you up also.
> 
> ...


Very well put. Thanks for your thoughts. It is true that Indians have a tendency to congregate together and even then sub groups are formed based on which region of India one comes from. This thread is quite critical about those suburbs having a substantial Indian populace - http://www.expatforum.com/expats/platypus-den/1071882-indian-communities-social-groups.html. Paramatta in particular is criticized the most. 



> Supposedly these Government Departments are able to gauge the need in different areas of employment and then they effectively set the occupation limits for DIBP to process. Personally, I suspect that like most Government Departments anywhere, they are probably often using data that may be outdated by a couple of years or more, by the time the numbers are alllocated to DIBP.
> 
> I don't think it's a huge issue for Australia - as it generally has a growing economy, for many years now migration numbers have been high - but individuals that do choose to migrate should do their own research and understand that they may not get employment quickly, they may have to find alternative employment, etc.
> 
> This is not just true for Australia of course, same thing happens in quite a few places if you migrate. Fortunately, most migrants tend to be young, skilled and perhaps more important, flexible, and most understand they may have to sacrifice to reach their longer-term goals. Then, if they are lucky, and things do work out quickly, it;s a great bonus!


Encouraging to know that economy is mostly growing even if IT jobs have reached saturation. To add to your point about being flexible and ready to sacrifice, I feel one needs to come with the right expectations too. When I first moved to the US, I had huge expectations because I was going to a great university with a strong alumni network. I was arrogantly confident of getting a 6 figure job (or atleast high 5 figures) based solely on my educational credentials. Fortunately, I quickly realized that while education, university, etc are important, what is vital in securing a job is who you know, how you present yourself, what skills you bring (nobody cares if you have 4.0 GPA. If you lack critical thinking skills, don't even expect a second interview) and are you a generally cordial person to work with. For me there was an extra layer of complication because of all the immigration hassles. After that reality kick in the nut, I lowered my expectations accordingly. Without that reality check, I would still think the world owed me a good life and would probably not have survived all these years in the US. I think one fundamental mistake a lot of people make (including myself when I first moved to the US) is to think life is all set when you move to developed countries. That everything is going to be great going forward. Now this may be true for some exceptionally talented people, but for most average Joes like me, the struggle has only just begun. 

Thanks for all the honest comments here. Keeps us all firmly tethered to reality.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

You sound like a thoroughly grounded person; I have no doubt you'll do just fine.
I liked your story of arriving in the US, it's interesting to hear the mindset behind some of the behaviours I see. And I do see the behaviour you described over here in Europe. Confidence is great, but it can slip into careless arrogance all too easily.




> Encouraging to know that economy is mostly growing even if IT jobs have reached saturation.


I don't think the IT market is saturated, just unbalanced. That's always going to be an issue in countries that are growing - the number of enthusiastic novices is going to outnumber those with more experience that guide them. That's doubly so for a rapidly growing industry in a growing economy in a growing country. Experience is king. What they are short on is people who have been around the block. They have universities churning out IT grads as quickly as possible, a migration policy that is importing thousands of low experience workers and a 457 policy that IT firms are using to staff at the lowest level (and lowest wage). They have enough raw horsepower to deliver IT outcomes, what they lack is the talent to harness that capability and turn it into business outcomes. 

IMHO I think you're going to be in demand if you've had some time in the US doing more than being a simple developer.


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## abhishekv (Oct 6, 2016)

Still waiting for my grant, but good to read your experiences and views.

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## abhishekv (Oct 6, 2016)

Hi all. Planning my move in Feb from India. How's the experience with immigration at the airport especially at India's (Mumbai's) end? Any issues or confusion on not seeing a visa stamped on the passport? Would it better to have a print out handy?

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## Ausysdhome (Jan 28, 2014)

FFacs said:


> You sound like a thoroughly grounded person; I have no doubt you'll do just fine.
> I liked your story of arriving in the US, it's interesting to hear the mindset behind some of the behaviours I see. And I do see the behaviour you described over here in Europe. Confidence is great, but it can slip into careless arrogance all too easily.
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
This reply is little late in the day, but you are spot on. Experience is the king. It also depends on what kind of skill you have i.e. person who has his skills updated definitely had an edge over the person who is still working on some legacy program/technology.


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## Ausysdhome (Jan 28, 2014)

arpithjain said:


> Ok that makes more sense. Now that I think about it, we traveled in trains mostly during non peak hours. Thanks for the clarification Basu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hi Arpit,
So did you finally move? I have the same occupation code and have lodged my visa application. If you have moved, can you please share your experience?

You mentioned that you would try for internal transfer, so wanted to know if your company supported you in that.

Cheers.


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