# Animal abuse



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

You may like to follow this link 

NO MORE POISONING IN DAHAB! - Petitions24.com


Strychnine is a horrific painful death so I am guessing it must be cheap here.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> You may like to follow this link
> 
> NO MORE POISONING IN DAHAB! - Petitions24.com
> 
> ...


I can see where this is heading Maiden and whilst I can see why many are distressed by the cruelty shown towards wild dogs, I have to admit that I dont truts Egypt to carry a campaign in which these animals can be captured and put down in a civilised manner. Or even better, captured, castrated and let them free in the desert. 

The fact remains that.the dog population is out of control and whilst most are shy from attacking people in crowded places, they can be agresive when there is noone around and you happen to step in "their terrotory".

Rabies is also a problem and I suspect that many locals don't seek treatment after a dog attack because of ignorance and or costs. I wonder if we have any data regarding deaths of humans from rabies in Egypt.

I think given that Egypt is still a very undeveloped country and doesn't have the mechanisms to deal wth the dog population in a developed manner, there are only two choices regarding wild dogs: these are either exterminate in ways that are afordable albeit cruel and painful or feel compasion for the animals and let them roam freely, thus poising a health and danger hazard for the people.

I choose the former.


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## Sam (Aug 27, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> I can see where this is heading Maiden and whilst I can see why many are distressed by the cruelty shown towards wild dogs, I have to admit that I dont truts Egypt to carry a campaign in which these animals can be captured and put down in a civilised manner. Or even better, captured, castrated and let them free in the desert.
> 
> The fact remains that.the dog population is out of control and whilst most are shy from attacking people in crowded places, they can be agresive when there is noone around and you happen to step in "their terrotory".
> 
> ...


For the most part I agree with this statement.

I have seen this petition on facebook and would love to support it, but have refrained so far. I am an animal lover and I hate to see suffering, but I also think that the stray population in Egypt needs to be "attended to". I don't like to see them poisoned or facing cruel and painful deaths, but to get out there and castrate all animals I can't see ever actually happening. And whilst religious beliefs put animals into the "dirty" category then I can't see any amount of education making this situation better. You cannot teach a person to care. 

I really can't yet formulate what I, as an animal lover, believe would be the kindest but most effective solution which also would be relatively cheap, since I can't see the Egyptian authorities putting any significant sum of money towards such a campaign (why would they when there are so many people on the streets too).


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I have no problem with the strays dogs being humanely put to sleep but the fact is they poison these dogs and the dogs are then left to die in the streets. I am sure that a humane form of could be found. I would always put people before animals and I know the country is struggling but lets be honest if you came on holiday and saw a dog dying of this poison you would never return..


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## Sam (Aug 27, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> I have no problem with the strays dogs being humanely put to sleep but the fact is they poison these dogs and the dogs are then left to die in the streets. I am sure that a humane form of could be found. I would always put people before animals and I know the country is struggling but lets be honest if you came on holiday and saw a dog dying of this poison you would never return..


It's very true. Even when poor animals get hit by cars they get left on the side of the road. I've had to tell my daughter several times about sleeping cats, that are amazingly still sleeping in the same place many days later 

Poisoning is very cruel, but would somebody ever actually finance a campaign to catch the animals and administer the necessary jabs. Perhaps an army campaign to shoot the animals. I know that's not really humane either, but it's quick at least and you don't have to approach the animal, which could be dangerous. Would imagine it'd be cheaper too. There has to be a happy medium. Luckily it's not such a big problem in Sharm as other areas, although I am sure that there are a lot of cafes that encourage kittens into their cafe to attract tourists, only to kick them out once they grow too much


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## Whiskey96 (Jun 6, 2010)

I also largely agree with Sonrisa, but feel that there should be much more
care taken on where and how the strays are "attended" to....
3 of my dog's puppies went to ex-pats in Sharm, and all died of 
poisoning within a matter of 4 years....


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## marenostrum (Feb 19, 2011)

hoe bad is this problem in Cairo?

In my neighboroud here i have not seen a problem with stray dogs but is probably only chance. I did have a few scary moments in marsa last year.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

marenostrum said:


> hoe bad is this problem in Cairo?
> 
> In my neighboroud here i have not seen a problem with stray dogs but is probably only chance. I did have a few scary moments in marsa last year.


Well Tagamoa, Maadi, Rehab get more than a fair share of strays, I think because surrounded by desert, which locals treat as a free for all dumping space for all kinds of rubbish, etc. so you get these packs of famished animals roaming as they search for food just outside major built up areas, sometimes going in and scaring the living lights out of people


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes, I recently moved to a place by Canal street and there is a few gangs of stray dogs too. 
I have seen many naive expat residents here that feed them, which doesnt help really. The also attack pet dogs when residents walk them in the gardens. I know a friend that had her labrador badly injured by a gang of strays while walking her at nighttime in the canal street, and he got badly bitten too as he was trying to save his lab. 

Stray cats are a different matter, as they pose no danger , they are sweet and friendly and they eat the mice rats and pests. 

I have read the thread of Doc Maurice now and It is heart breaking. Sadly i don't see how the signatures will help get anything done, as it is mostly locals who poison the strays and they don't care about pets (in fact they probably want to hurt the pet dogs too!). I don't think the "authorities" will do anything, nor will the hotels, but since these are mostly expat areas, it would make sense to set a poison free area for walking the dogs or volunteer to capture strays, castrate them and release them in the desert? Just an idea.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Public relations... if Egypt wants the tourist back then maybe this could be one of their proposals, tell the world that stray dogs are humanely eradicated.. There are animal organisations that have vets who work voluntary so in reality it wouldn't take a lot of money for the army to help get these dogs castrated which would take a lot of the fight out of them or indeed just put them all to sleep. The army has horses so they too must have vets that work with them..
Poisoning dogs is humane, lazy and in this day and age there is no need for it.
btw I would personally euthanize all the animals in the zoo here in Giza that is also one very cruel practise.


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## SHendra (Oct 18, 2010)

Giza zoo is heartbreaking, went one time only and noticed they drug the lions the one they allow people to stand next to and get photos! Saw one being pulled out of it's enclosure like it was totally stoned, made to 'sit' so that a person could have a photo with it. Alexandria zoo isn't much nicer either. Was a case there where an old elephant was chained to the bars so she didn't wonder off around her space so that the keeper could make more money in having her fed buy people! Although I have heard that has since changed. But again people treat it like a rubbish dump, you see locals throwing their rubbish into the animals, cans etc too!

Last week while on way out to the city centre the taxi passed an area by a canal here in Alexs.. also known for rubbish etc and there was a awful smell in the air but not like normal rubbish! Then I spotted it a dead horse dumped to the side! I could not eat for the rest of the day!


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

And the bears in Giza Zoo. They are locked in small cages. It really is a sad show.


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

SHendra said:


> Giza zoo is heartbreaking, went one time only and noticed they drug the lions the one they allow people to stand next to and get photos! Saw one being pulled out of it's enclosure like it was totally stoned, made to 'sit' so that a person could have a photo with it. Alexandria zoo isn't much nicer either. Was a case there where an old elephant was chained to the bars so she didn't wonder off around her space so that the keeper could make more money in having her fed buy people! Although I have heard that has since changed. But again people treat it like a rubbish dump, you see locals throwing their rubbish into the animals, cans etc too!
> 
> Last week while on way out to the city centre the taxi passed an area by a canal here in Alexs.. also known for rubbish etc and there was a awful smell in the air but not like normal rubbish! Then I spotted it a dead horse dumped to the side! I could not eat for the rest of the day!


well dont go to the pyramids as the canal that runs down the side,always has dead dogs, horses and cows belly up in it, and the woman wash there clothes,the kids swim ,the pyramid horses get washed and the people selling veg by the road side keep there produce fresh with it.if you saw that youd not eat for a month.


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## Docmaurice (Dec 7, 2009)

*Petition*

And also:

www.petitiononline/sharmpet/petition.html

thanks thanks thanks


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## Docmaurice (Dec 7, 2009)

Sam said:


> For the most part I agree with this statement.
> 
> I have seen this petition on facebook and would love to support it, but have refrained so far. I am an animal lover and I hate to see suffering, but I also think that the stray population in Egypt needs to be "attended to". I don't like to see them poisoned or facing cruel and painful deaths, but to get out there and castrate all animals I can't see ever actually happening. And whilst religious beliefs put animals into the "dirty" category then I can't see any amount of education making this situation better. You cannot teach a person to care.
> 
> I really can't yet formulate what I, as an animal lover, believe would be the kindest but most effective solution which also would be relatively cheap, since I can't see the Egyptian authorities putting any significant sum of money towards such a campaign (why would they when there are so many people on the streets too).


Sam and Sonrisa,

The problem is that poison does not discriminate between rabid strays and people's pet cats and dogs, which ARE part of their families. Nor does it discriminate between rabid strays and inquisitive toddlers' stray fingers!!
Also if you ever see an animal dying of strychnine poisoning, you might change your mind. 

Ten to twenty minutes after exposure, the body's muscles begin to spasm, starting with the head and neck in the form of trismus and risus sardonicus. The spasms then spread to every muscle in the body, with nearly continuous convulsions, and get worse at the slightest stimulus. The convulsions progress, increasing in intensity and frequency until the backbone arches continually. Convulsions lead to lactic acidosis, hyperthermia and rhabdomyolysis. These are followed by postictal depression. Death comes from asphyxiation caused by paralysis of the neural pathways that control breathing, or by exhaustion from the convulsions. The subject dies within 2–3 hours after exposure.

There is no specific antidote for strychnine. Treatment of strychnine poisoning involves an oral application of an activated charcoal infusion which serves to absorb any poison within the digestive tract that has not yet been absorbed into the blood. Anticonvulsants such as phenobarbital or diazepam are administered to control convulsions, along with muscle relaxants such as dantrolene to combat muscle rigidity. If the patient survives past 24 hours, recovery is probable.

This is how I saw MY border collie, Sean, die. He had been my companion for six years, since he was a puppy. He was an intelligent, affectionate, happy, loyal and playful member of our family, and loved by everyone who knows us. My three year old grandson, Max, used to ring us from UK to talk to Sean! Using military terms one could say that his death was inevitable "collateral damage". I do NOT and will not accept that-nor do the countless other pet owners in Sharm and Dahab who's pets have been cruelly poisoned.


‎"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Gandhi


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

But you cannot educate some folk.

NIMBY City pet owners dump their dogs on week-end vacations in places like Sharm and Hurghada, as the Nile Delta is already full of animals.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Docmaurice said:


> Sam and Sonrisa,
> 
> The problem is that poison does not discriminate between rabid strays and people's pet cats and dogs, which ARE part of their families. Nor does it discriminate between rabid strays and inquisitive toddlers' stray fingers!!
> Also if you ever see an animal dying of strychnine poisoning, you might change your mind.
> ...


Dear Maurice, 

First of all, I am really sorry about your loss. I whish I would have known before writting my previous posts, I would have chosen my words more carefully. I understand how devastating it is to lose our beloved pets, and more so in such sad cirmcumstances. 

I totally agree that this way of treating animals is cruel and dangerous, but what else could the locals do? In some of the beautiful resorts by the sea, it is only too easy to forget that this is an undeveloped country ,with its problems, many of which we are unaware of. Who are we we tell egyptians how to deal with their own demons and change their ways? There are huge cultural differences to start with, for us murdering animals without merci is depicable, for them keeping dogs at home is dirty and sinful. 
THe best we can do is to protect our loved ones, including our pets, so we don't get cought in the cruelty, misery and dangers of a country that doesn't treat its own citizens humanly, let alone its wild life. 

I believe you are doing a great thing raising awareness on the dangers of poison, so that other pet owners and parents who do not know, will watch out carefully . Someone mentions muzzling dogs to prevent them from picking anything with their mouths. Expats with dogs need to know that leaving poison is common practice in Egypt and take appropiate measures. 

I hope your pet is the last one murdered in such a horrific way. I'm really sorry.


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## Horus (Sep 17, 2010)

I sometimes prefer the company of animals to people and they depend on us it sickens me to read this

I do think they need to euthanise all of these strays in a humane manner, I love cats but they cause severe ecological damage and have been responsible for pushing many reptile and bird species to extinction - ultimately parts of Sharm are conservation areas

These cute kittens and puppies only will grow into a life of misery


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