# What rights do I have?



## Nicmilton (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi,
Moved to Spain. UK nationals. Have put everything into this. I have health insurance, rental contract, bank account. I can eventually get a job teaching English but I am waiting for my kids to go to school.We can even show we have enough money to be here so in essence fulfill the new immigration requirements. I can get a padron from the town hall also. However, at the police station they are being very very demanding about paperwork...like they want a copy of everything translation, more dated copies of our marriage certificates translated officially...we have all originals and translations of everything already but they don't want to give the nie. Now we can run around getting more and more stuff but also I need to send my kids to school now (local). If this takes another 6 or 9 months I can't keep them out of school that long. What rights do I have to send them to school here if I am not quite resident. I guess I'm not full on illegal immigrant because I'm EU but do they have an obligation to let me send my kids to school as they are school age?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nicmilton said:


> Hi,
> Moved to Spain. UK nationals. Have put everything into this. I have health insurance, rental contract, bank account. I can eventually get a job teaching English but I am waiting for my kids to go to school.We can even show we have enough money to be here so in essence fulfill the new immigration requirements. I can get a padron from the town hall also. However, at the police station they are being very very demanding about paperwork...like they want a copy of everything translation, more dated copies of our marriage certificates translated officially...we have all originals and translations of everything already but they don't want to give the nie. Now we can run around getting more and more stuff but also I need to send my kids to school now (local). If this takes another 6 or 9 months I can't keep them out of school that long. What rights do I have to send them to school here if I am not quite resident. I guess I'm not full on illegal immigrant because I'm EU but do they have an obligation to let me send my kids to school as they are school age?


I guess you mean that you are trying to register as resident?

As an EU citizen, they can't refuse to allow you to register as resident proving that you can show sufficient income/savings & that you have healthcare provision

I don't understand why they'd need marriage certs - all you need are your passports, the forms & the proof of funds & healthcare provision (& some areas want padrón) - passports don't need to be translated (unless one of you isn't an EU citizen - registration in that case for that person IS more complicated)

to just get a NIE you only need your passport - you don't even need to be resident here- but it's also not the same as 'residency'

there must be something else going on here - the best thing I can suggest is to go see a gestor for help - it shouldn't cost the earth

around here you do need to show proof of residency to get your kids into school, although I know in some areas the padrón is enough

from your previous post you have a 1 year old & a 6 year old? They don't start school til age 6 here, so don't panic yet - but of course s/he does need to be in school


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## Nicmilton (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks for this and all the previous advice. I think you can't separate residency and NIE under the new rules now though?? So my husband has to go to the UK, get more forms, get them translated, come back etc and my daughter is finiding it hard not being at school and meeting people yet. Don't know if we can get her in school from 6 while our residencia/nie is in progress though. i though even if you were illegal they are under legally obligated to let you send kids to school


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I don't understand why they'd need marriage certl



Does Spain have a family register ? I think most Latin countries do. Unless they're asking for proof of marriage etc then the forms are going into the family's file . No different then any local .


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nicmilton said:


> Thanks for this and all the previous advice. I think you can't separate residency and NIE under the new rules now though?? So my husband has to go to the UK, get more forms, get them translated, come back etc and my daughter is finiding it hard not being at school and meeting people yet. Don't know if we can get her in school from 6 while our residencia/nie is in progress though. i though even if you were illegal they are under legally obligated to let you send kids to school


when you register as resident they issue a NIE number, but again, in some areas they want you to get a NIE number first & separately

I'm not sure what you think you need to get translated??

the forms (EX18) are downloadable from this forum - why do you think your husband needs to go to the UK for anything?

as I said - you only need your passports for registering as resident - no other documents such as marriage certs 


have you tried registering your child for school yet? as I said, you might well be able to do so with your padrón


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> when you register as resident they issue a NIE number, but again, in some areas they want you to get a NIE number first & separately
> 
> I'm not sure what you think you need to get translated??
> 
> ...




As Xab says, you don't usually need Marriage certs, translations, etc.

From you initial post - is it just you and kids who are trying to register, while your husband remains UK resident??

If so, I'm guessing this could be causing your problems. Perhaps they are doubtful that a properly marrried couple would not be planning to live in the same country - and that being the case, you may not get the money from your husband to satisfy the financial requirements for residencia?

It has also been suggested previously, that it may not be considered acceptable for a husband to be resident, pay tax, etc elsewhere - i.e. the fact he supports a family in Spain may be enough for him to have to be tax resident in Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

brocher said:


> As Xab says, you don't usually need Marriage certs, translations, etc.
> 
> From you initial post - is it just you and kids who are trying to register, while your husband remains UK resident??
> 
> ...


yes, that occurred to me too

although there are lots of people here who are in that position who registered with no problems at all


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

OH translates for others at our local Extranjeros Office, and they are becoming increasingly strict on the requirements for Residencia for EU residents.

Last week he accompanied a couple, who were refused residencia on the grounds that they could not prove sufficient income (they both had sufficient private pensions and savings). A P60 was not accepted, on the basis that this had to be translated into Spanish and authorised by the Notary (although the English S1 form was accepted).

The couple had sufficient money in a UK bank, however this was not accepted, as money should be in a Spanish bank or regular income, direct, from a pension provider sent direct to a Spanish bank. The Officer stated that monthly income into a Spanish bank, should be ideally for at least a year, until it was pointed out that Residencia requirements are within 3 months!!!

These specific income requirements (documents translated into Spnish) were certainly not required a few months ago, so it appears that stricter controls are being put in place.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica22 said:


> OH translates for others at our local Extranjeros Office, and they are becoming increasingly strict on the requirements for Residencia for EU residents.
> 
> Last week he accompanied a couple, who were refused residencia on the grounds that they could not prove sufficient income (they both had sufficient private pensions and savings). A P60 was not accepted, on the basis that this had to be translated into Spanish and authorised by the Notary (although the English S1 form was accepted).
> 
> ...


yes, I think they are tightening up - the income requirements have been in place since the beginning of September, though to be fair they have been vague at best, but payment into a Spanish account has been required

someone I know has been told (on Friday) that they need 610€ a month paid into their account *in Spain* - in fact they can show that considerably more has been going into their account here for years, but not in regular amounts - they simply transfer some as & when (not sure if that's each, but I don't think so)

she is panicking that she can't show _exactly _that amount - I'll try & remember to post how they get on next week

they have only now got around to registerung after quite a few years here, because the police turned up at their house last week with a summons for her husband to report to the police station within 10 days, basically to explain why he is on the padrón if not resident, or not registered as such if he lives here..........


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

We were asked for original marriage certificate and sworn translation when we registered as residents. That was because we moved for husband's job and so he was "supporting" me till I started work - is this a similar situation??
What other documents exactly are they asking for?

ETA: Actually, if the OP has sufficient funds, this shouldn't be a problem... Seems to be quite a bit of difference as to what "sufficient funds" are though...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> We were asked for original marriage certificate and sworn translation when we registered as residents. That was because we moved for husband's job and so he was "supporting" me till I started work - is this a similar situation??
> What other documents exactly are they asking for?
> 
> ETA: Actually, if the OP has sufficient funds, this shouldn't be a problem... Seems to be quite a bit of difference as to what "sufficient funds" are though...


from the OP's previous post her husband is staying most of the time in the UK & wasn't planning to register here - maybe that's the issue

but as you/we said - as long as she can show sufficient funds that shouldn't make a difference


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

The funds required in our region are 5,000 euros for a single person, and 8,500 for a couple. I think the point that now a P60 needs to be officially translated, and that they will only accept pension income paid directly to a Spanish bank makes a significant difference to what was previously asked for.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Use the Solvit process . 
Here; 
https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/

You can use both advice/assistance at the same time.

Things they cannot legally do.
A) ask you to supply information that they would not ask a Spanish national for .

B) Ask you to supply information that they can obtain themselves. There is no requirement for an EU citizen to run around gathering info for the LB's posing as funcionarios. 
Every time you are asked to do this/provide something ask for the 'hojas de reclamación' . Make a complaint every time. The more the better .

" I would also ask for the 'hojas de reclamación' on your return before even starting any new dialogue with them & make a complaint at least on the grounds that they are asking you to

A) supply information that they would not ask a Spanish national to supply. This is illegal under EU rules. You cannot be asked to supply anything that a spanish national would not be asked for. They supplied that to me in writing. Your second complaint ,should be 

B) also supplied to me in writing through the Solvit process is that they state that all eu soc.sec. hacienda /tax offices have the ability to converse with each other & if they require additional documentation they should contact their opposite numbers in the relevant country directly . 

"THE EU CITIZEN SHOULD NOT BE ASKED TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT THE OFFICE CAN COLLECT THEMSELVES. " 

: & that is exactly how they expressed it & instructed me to make an official complaint. You should not be being asked to supply info & be running around. That is what they are paid to do.

You can use the solvit process to ask questions exactly as you have done on here & they will reply within 10 days. Yoiu can also make a second request for them to work on your behalf.



The mere request for the 'hojas' & preferably ask also for the manager should be enough to straighten out even the most obnoxious piece of work. Remember also that you cannot make too many complaints & if you can actually furnish the name of said misery & put ii in every complaint , so much the better.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Chica22 said:


> The funds required in our region are 5,000 euros for a single person, and 8,500 for a couple. I think the point that now a P60 needs to be officially translated, and that they will only accept pension income paid directly to a Spanish bank makes a significant difference to what was previously asked for.


Under EU rules they can only ask for certain things. Providing you supply correctly the requested documents , they CANNOT ask for any additional documentation. If they have made a mistake that is there problem not yours. 
What people should do is when asked for the documentation ask politely that it is in writing. Always ask whether it requires translating & if so that that is specified. On return with said documents only those on the list are required nothing else & if asked just reply requesting the 'hojas'. If you do make a complaint usiing them ALWAYS maske exactly the same complaint to the EU through the solvit process. 

It would appearfor some reason that the main problems /difficulties/obnoxiousness etc; etc; are , as usual , in Andalucia.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica22 said:


> The funds required in our region are 5,000 euros for a single person, and 8,500 for a couple. I think the point that now a P60 needs to be officially translated, and that they will only accept pension income paid directly to a Spanish bank makes a significant difference to what was previously asked for.


as I said, they've been asking for proof of funds into a Spanish bank since September

at least in my area according to people I know personally, & others, according to posters here who have registered since then


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> It would appearfor some reason that the main problems /difficulties/obnoxiousness etc; etc; are , as usual , in Andalucia.


On what do you base that disparaging remark. Andalucía has never been problematic. Perhaps it is YOUR geography that is the difficulty. This thread is about the usual culprits, the Catalans, or were you not aware that Barcelona is not in Andalucía?


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## cbhcm (Jan 5, 2013)

As a total non-expert, I might suggest that sudden stricter Spanish bank requirements might reflect the fact that Spanish banks are in big trouble at the moment. They have suffered huge deposit flight out of fear that Spain will be forced out of the Euro currency, and one Sunday midnight all your Spanish bank accounts will be converted to Pesetas. It wouldn't be a surprise if the Spanish government would use any leverage they have with anyone to force more cash into Spanish bank accounts to keep the banks solvent.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cbhcm said:


> As a total non-expert, I might suggest that sudden stricter Spanish bank requirements might reflect the fact that Spanish banks are in big trouble at the moment. They have suffered huge deposit flight out of fear that Spain will be forced out of the Euro currency, and one Sunday midnight all your Spanish bank accounts will be converted to Pesetas. It wouldn't be a surprise if the Spanish government would use any leverage they have with anyone to force more cash into Spanish bank accounts to keep the banks solvent.


while I guess that's always a possibility , I for one can't understand why, if you live in a country, you wouldn't have a bank account there :confused2:

they don't actually ask that you keep much in it


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Does Spain have a family register ? I think most Latin countries do. Unless they're asking for proof of marriage etc then the forms are going into the family's file . No different then any local .


you don't need a marriage cert to register as resident, unless for example your passport has a different name on it


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

cbhcm said:


> As a total non-expert, I might suggest that sudden stricter Spanish bank requirements might reflect the fact that Spanish banks are in big trouble at the moment. They have suffered huge deposit flight out of fear that Spain will be forced out of the Euro currency, and one Sunday midnight all your Spanish bank accounts will be converted to Pesetas. It wouldn't be a surprise if the Spanish government would use any leverage they have with anyone to force more cash into Spanish bank accounts to keep the banks solvent.


I think it is probably more likely to be an attempt to cut down on illegal activities.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes, I think they are tightening up - the income requirements have been in place since the beginning of September, though to be fair they have been vague at best, but payment into a Spanish account has been required
> 
> someone I know has been told (on Friday) that they need 610€ a month paid into their account *in Spain* - in fact they can show that considerably more has been going into their account here for years, but not in regular amounts - they simply transfer some as & when (not sure if that's each, but I don't think so)
> 
> ...



my friend & her husband now have their resident certs

they accepted the bank statements showing regular bank transfers from the UK - as a 'belt & braces' they had also got a letter from their bank manager, but didn't need it

she needed to show her marriage cert because it has a different name to her passport (never got around to changing it...I'm detecting a theme here )

she didn't need the marriage cert translated or apostilled


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> On what do you base that disparaging remark. Andalucía has never been problematic. Perhaps it is YOUR geography that is the difficulty. This thread is about the usual culprits, the Catalans, or were you not aware that Barcelona is not in Andalucía?


My apologies & yes the Catalans are as bad but 90+% of all those who have problems on the forums I use are in Andalucia. Perhaps they are the only ones who complain ?
Thinking about it ,& going off -topic,all the Trafico/Guardia civil/Mossas complaints are all mainly from both those regions ?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> My apologies & yes the Catalans are as bad but 90+% of all those who have problems on the forums I use are in Andalucia. Perhaps they are the only ones who complain ?
> Thinking about it ,& going off -topic,all the Trafico/Guardia civil/Mossas complaints are all mainly from both those regions ?


It could also be that Andalucía is very large Community and has a very high number of expats many of whom are not properly equipped for life in another country and, therefore, fall foul of the various tripping hazards that there are in living in any foreign country. Cataluña is another area with a lot of expats AND a very different attitude towards those it doesn't like. Andalucía has a much more laid-back attitude.


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Under EU rules they can only ask for certain things. Providing you supply correctly the requested documents , they CANNOT ask for any additional documentation. If they have made a mistake that is there problem not yours.
> What people should do is when asked for the documentation ask politely that it is in writing. Always ask whether it requires translating & if so that that is specified. On return with said documents only those on the list are required nothing else & if asked just reply requesting the 'hojas'. If you do make a complaint usiing them ALWAYS maske exactly the same complaint to the EU through the solvit process.
> 
> It would appearfor some reason that the main problems /difficulties/obnoxiousness etc; etc; are , as usual , in Andalucia.


I dont see why Spain should have to specify that a document needs translating, perhaps in the past English documentation was accepted, but now the rules are being tightened. I dont see this as being obnoxious, but a mere expectation that documents should be provided in the relevant language of the country in which you live/or wish to reside.


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