# Ban on Airbnb in Palma



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I see that the ayuntamiento in Palma is going to introduce a ban on renting apartments for short term lets. In my opinion a good idea that will hopefully be rolled out across other communities in Spain. The increase in people renovating flats and then renting on Airbnb is really bad where I live. First we have foreigners who refuse to respect the siesta hours hammering away all afternoon then a constant stream of loud holiday makers partying during the summer months. It really is bad and fails to respect the rest of the owners who live and work all year. If you want to profit from property investment fair enough but do it with detached houses as far away from other people as you can. Spain shouldn't be used as a cash cow for already rich Europeans


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> I see that the ayuntamiento in Palma is going to introduce a ban on renting apartments for short term lets. In my opinion a good idea that will hopefully be rolled out across other communities in Spain. The increase in people renovating flats and then renting on Airbnb is really bad where I live. First we have foreigners who refuse to respect the siesta hours hammering away all afternoon then a constant stream of loud holiday makers partying during the summer months. It really is bad and fails to respect the rest of the owners who live and work all year. If you want to profit from property investment fair enough but do it with detached houses as far away from other people as you can. Spain shouldn't be used as a cash cow for already rich Europeans


Totally agree but the ban should be extended to detached houses in purely residential areas although the problem is obviously worse in pisos.

For the past two years our Spanish neighbour has moved into an apartment from March to end of October and has been renting his house solely to Brits. He charges 3k euros a week in May!!!!
Although we have a large stretch of garden between us and his house when there are groups who see Spain as a place to get drunk and party until the early hours, noise carries in this quiet area and most people round here get up to go to work.
We're pretty sure the cash goes straight into Manolo's pockets, no tax paid.

Do you know if there is some kind of register of legally rented apartments kept at the local Ayto?


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## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Have recently been in Ibiza for a few weeks and they have really clamped down on Air B n B and other similar internet based accommodation rentals. Massive fines for people flouting the new laws which are being implemented at present. The whole Air B n B type operation needs to be overhauled and stricter guidelines put in place everywhere not just Spain, I'm sure they are much stricter in some places than others.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Do you know if there is some kind of register of legally rented apartments kept at the local Ayto?


I believe it's the Junta de Andalucia you have to register with, rather than the Ayuntamiento. But the requirement to register only came in a couple of years ago and I've no idea how many private renters have actually done so. My friend has been trying for months, as she lets out part of her house in the summer, and it is not a straightforward process.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

The apartment directly above ours has been turned into a holiday let and is advertised through numerous sites. It is the only holiday let in the whole block amongst families who have young children, old age pensioners and others who have to get up early for work. There has been a variety of nationalities that have used the apartment. They often wake us up in the early hours coming back drunk and noisy. Its amazing how many times furniture is dragged about for whatever reason at 4 in the morning? 

All airbnb apartments should be closed down that are within residential buildings. 

Steve


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

The problem is that so many people see it as a way to maintain a second property whilst it is empty. In my opinion it is pure greed. I hope folk who come on this site read these comments as there are lots of people asking about buying properties here in Spain with a view to renting. The laws that are in place here to make sure that at least some of the money stays in Spain is often ignored by foreigners who think renting to families and friends is okay. At least my neighbours are organising themselves to denounce these people go authoroties which goes some way to helping stem the problem


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Our daughter and her husband went to Palma for a long weekend a fortnight ago. They stayed in an Air BnB in a lovely looking historical apartment, in the centre of town. They said although the apartment was really nice, the drains were stinking and the noise outside was really bad, (not from other apartments), they found it hard to sleep. So although theý loved Palma, next time they said, it'll be a nice hotel in a quieter area. But it just goes to show not all the noise comes from the air BnB. Oh and by the way, it was Spanish owned, not foreigners as in the OP post.
There is a guy in our village who runs a very nice Air BnB, no parties , loud music etc so we can't tar everyone with the same brush. He even brings his guests to help out at the local dog rescue ☺☺


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Roy C; .
There is a guy in our village who runs a very nice Air BnB said:


> Obviously a very nice guy...when are we going to see you again, Roy? Soon, I hope


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I see that the ayuntamiento in Palma is going to introduce a ban on renting apartments for short term lets. In my opinion a good idea that will hopefully be rolled out across other communities in Spain. The increase in people renovating flats and then renting on Airbnb is really bad where I live. First we have foreigners who refuse to respect the siesta hours hammering away all afternoon then a constant stream of loud holiday makers partying during the summer months. It really is bad and fails to respect the rest of the owners who live and work all year. If you want to profit from property investment fair enough but do it with detached houses as far away from other people as you can. Spain shouldn't be used as a cash cow for already rich Europeans


As far as I understand it the Air B&B problem is far more than noisy rentals. In some areas like Madrid city centre, Barcelona old town and Palma it is undermining the whole economy of the sector/ region/ town area. In areas of the Balearic islands there are huge problems not only for the hotels which are seeing business being taken away from them, but for the people who work in the hotels ( or people who just want to live in Palma) as reasonably set rents are almost impossible to find. Some of the workers live in the hotels, the more seasonal staff, but full timers don't and rents are sky high and difficult to come by.
The same has happened to Madrid city centre where owners no longer do long term rents as it's far more lucrative to rent to tourists through Air B&B. I don't see it as greed. It's making the most of your assets - normal.
In the retail trade...
I was in Bilbao this weekend and H&M are closing up their main shop there and are not opening another of the same size. There have been strikes in the logistics centre in Madrid; the beginning of the end to physical shops for H&M? Blanco shut up shop completely last year. British Homestores left the high street in the UK... How many photography shops are there now? How many dedicated to mobile phones?
Air B&B, like Uber and Amazon have fukced up the market, but they offer products/ services that the public want. The market place is changing and the way of buying and selling, the role of the consumer and provider is changing too.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> I believe it's the Junta de Andalucia you have to register with, rather than the Ayuntamiento. But the requirement to register only came in a couple of years ago and I've no idea how many private renters have actually done so. My friend has been trying for months, as she lets out part of her house in the summer, and it is not a straightforward process.


Why there - all depends where you live surely?

It's usually the local tourist office who handle the registration and the licence.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Why there - all depends where you live surely?
> 
> It's usually the local tourist office who handle the registration and the licence.


As you say, it depends where you live. Mary and I both live in Andalucia and she was talking about a residential property in her neighbourhood. You can present the application online or at a tourist office, but the register is centralised, AFAIK not kept by the ayuntamiento.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Well despite the anti- social behaviour that I feel comes with these short term rents there is another reason why I don't like them. They erode the sense of community. Anyone who lives in apartments blocks in Spain must have experienced the sense of being part of a small community. You know your neighbours well. You know their names, the business, their family etc. For Spanish working class this is a very strong and important part of their culture and daily identity. I love that I am accepted here as one of this "family. I love that people know my name and will offer me fruit from their villages etc. But when the buildings get taken over by short term lets this sense of respect gets water- downed and something is lost for the sake of another man's gain. If you think I am alone in thinking this take a look in Barcelona where many people are expressing the same idea. I know it is all healthy capitalism etc but as usual the real losers are the less well off who are losing part of their world for the easy benefits of the wealthy


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Well despite the anti- social behaviour that I feel comes with these short term rents there is another reason why I don't like them. They erode the sense of community. Anyone who lives in apartments blocks in Spain must have experienced the sense of being part of a small community. You know your neighbours well. You know their names, the business, their family etc. For Spanish working class this is a very strong and important part of their culture and daily identity. I love that I am accepted here as one of this "family. I love that people know my name and will offer me fruit from their villages etc. But when the buildings get taken over by short term lets this sense of respect gets water- downed and something is lost for the sake of another man's gain. If you think I am alone in thinking this take a look in Barcelona where many people are expressing the same idea. I know it is all healthy capitalism etc but as usual the real losers are the less well off who are losing part of their world for the easy benefits of the wealthy


You haven't quoted anyone so don't know if this is directed at any one post or is a general complaint.
I agree that Air B&B, well not so much the company itself, but the way that this style of tourism has taken off, has very much changed some areas of towns. Things _do_ change and a lot of the time things change to the dislike of the people who were living in these areas before. 
Common ways forward need to be found because these companies are not going away, IMHO. Old and new must come up with ways to to work together or else one of them is going to die.
BTW I stayed at a B&B last year and managed to not trash the place, nor play loud music nor run naked up and down the stairs. When we were leaving though, some people in the flats did accuse us of disturbing them when we knew it had been the people in the the flat next door to us - people who lived there all year round! Give a dog a bad name...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You haven't quoted anyone so don't know if this is directed at any one post or is a general complaint.
> I agree that Air B&B, well not so much the company itself, but the way that this style of tourism has taken off, has very much changed some areas of towns. Things _do_ change and a lot of the time things change to the dislike of the people who were living in these areas before.
> Common ways forward need to be found because these companies are not going away, IMHO. Old and new must come up with ways to to work together or else one of them is going to die.
> BTW I stayed at a B&B last year and managed to not trash the place, nor play loud music nor run naked up and down the stairs. When we were leaving though, some people in the flats did accuse us of disturbing them when we knew it had been the people in the the flat next door to us - people who lived there all year round! Give a dog a bad name...


I agree. I do understand the annoyance felt by permanent residents at the nuisance caused by some inconsiderate tourists, and the way they feel their areas are being changed. But you are right, changes do happen, for all kinds of reasons.

We like to take city breaks, and almost always choose apartments (although we haven't used Airbnb itself). Some of them have been individual apartments in residential blocks, and some in dedicated blocks of short term rental apartments. I don't believe we have ever caused problems for anyone else either staying there or living in the building, we don't get drunk, play music, come back late at night or get up early in the morning, and we always time our arrival and departure so as not to get there late or leave very early. We prefer not to stay in hotels as we like the extra space and feeling of being able to relax which an apartment gives (we don't cook for ourselves so do spend money in local restaurants and bars) and we don't want to have to rent a detached house which would be far too big for two of us, somewhere out in the suburbs with no access to public transport. But our choice is going to be restricted if more cities adopt the same measures as Palma - and accommodation there is already expensive by Spanish standards.

The area we used to live in changed a lot in the 13 years we owned our house. At first almost all the houses were occupied by mainly older Spanish people and some families, with a sprinkling of full time foreign residents. Over time, a lot of the older people died, and several families moved to apartments in the town. Every property which was sold was sold as a second home to foreigners (which ours originally was, so we were part of the problem, until we moved over permanently), and others owned by Spanish families were just left empty. The majority of the foreign residents who used to live there full time moved back to their own countries, for a variety of reasons. In some ways the number of houses left empty for all or part of the year was quite good (less noise) but overall the effect didn't change the area for the better - it became quite isolated living in the middle of so many empty properties, their exteriors weren't maintained so well and the pavements outside them weren't cleaned every day as they were when lived in full time, and they were more vulnerable to break-ins. Many of the small independent shops and bars nearby closed (more properties left empty) as there was not enough trade for them, and the Council relocated the indoor market to another area of the town where there is much more trade for the stallholders. And when we moved, our house became one more holiday home as foreign buyers were the ones looking for properties in the area. 

But what can be done? People can't be forced to live where they don't want to live (the younger Spanish people aren't interested in living somewhere that isn't accessible by car, the older ones come to want somewhere easier to get to as well, and prefer modern flats to old houses needing a lot of upkeep - as we did, eventually - and if restrictions were placed on second home ownership it would become very difficult for people to sell their properties).


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Seems entirely overkill to me, people we know have moved out of their rental property because the community restrictions were mental. 
I mean they are not even aloud to have a bbq let alone rent the property out as a holiday let. Heaven forbid you have children who like to play outside.

I'm guessing all the legal requirements are already in place to clean up and regulate the industry as is although nobody will admit their failings so instead of fixing a problem they(regulating authorities) created it would seem easier to punish everybody by creating a potentially bigger problem they wont enforce. 

But hey, airbnb users don't have the deep pockets the hoteliers association does so there is that too. 
I think it would be nice of the government to make laws that force people to come and give me money as well.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Private short-term lets have been going on for donkeys' years in Spain, The UK and probably everywhere else. We have hardly ever stayed in a hotel in 40 years of holiday-making - always had self catering of some sort. 

Airbnb are hardly to blame - it's just a different way of doing it.

If some places in southern Spain (e.g. Estepona) banned short-term private lets it would effectively kill off the holiday market as that's just about all there is there - hardly any hotels to speak of. 

Apply proper safety, quality and fiscal controls - yes. 

Ban - nope.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

There are other ways of managing tourism besides bans. Barcelona now has a "roadmap", which includes measures such as promoting areas where you can stay that are well away from the overcrowded, expensive central district, and laying on extra buses to ferry people to and from the most popular destinations.

https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/tu...onsible-tourism-with-public-leadership_460506


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Just been watching the news here and it looks like more regions are taking action against these short term lets. Madrid and Valencia are now restricting rents to street level flats and with independent access. Looks like it will start to be rolled out in other places. So warning for those who are looking to rent top floor flats etc .


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> Just been watching the news here and it looks like more regions are taking action against these short term lets. Madrid and Valencia are now restricting rents to street level flats and with independent access. Looks like it will start to be rolled out in other places. So warning for those who are looking to rent top floor flats etc .


It will be interesting to see how they enforce this. Will they have council employees actively checking out rental sites, or rely on residents grassing up their neighbours?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

The communidad will have permission to decide in some regions and all properties will need numbers that need to shown on advertising. Not sure about " grassing up your neighbour " more a case of your neighbour needing to think about the obligations they have to their community.

Anyway the long and short of it is take care those people who are looking to buy properties here in Spain as rental flats. This is not something that estate agents will be obliged to point out to you and it might take time too filter through the expat grapevine.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cities-efforts-to-curb-airbnb-say-campaigners

I know it's not the tone of the article at all but it's good to see that complaints have been made to the EU and there is a possibility this may end up in the ECJ.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

This new measure might reduce the number of properties advertised as tourist rentals on Air BnB and other sites!

https://elpais.com/economia/2018/12/17/actualidad/1545059077_405401.html


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

It's interesting reading all the complaints about AirBnb and the tourists it brings. Of course I've seen the protests in Barcelona on the news so don't doubt it's a problem, but I live in an old mining town that's dying as the mines and power plant disappear so turning tourists away seems like madness. The only tourism we get is people passing through on the Camino de Santiago and I've never done any studies on it, but I doubt many of them are the type who go out drinking all night and move furniture when they get back.

My real-bug bear with AirBnb is that an empty apartment with a digital keypad on the door isn't a BnB. As people on the Camino tend to take it slow and have an interest in local culture I reckon they'd be the perfect candidates for a true BnB experience where a host can explain things to them and show them around.

Perhaps the real solution is to make it live up to its name and limit BnB licences to occupied apartments renting spare rooms only.


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## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

tebo53 said:


> Its amazing how many times furniture is dragged about for whatever reason at 4 in the morning?


Making space for the put me up beds!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

_Si_ said:


> It's interesting reading all the complaints about AirBnb and the tourists it brings. Of course I've seen the protests in Barcelona on the news so don't doubt it's a problem, but I live in an old mining town that's dying as the mines and power plant disappear so turning tourists away seems like madness. The only tourism we get is people passing through on the Camino de Santiago and I've never done any studies on it, but I doubt many of them are the type who go out drinking all night and move furniture when they get back.
> 
> My real-bug bear with AirBnb is that an empty apartment with a digital keypad on the door isn't a BnB. As people on the Camino tend to take it slow and have an interest in local culture I reckon they'd be the perfect candidates for a true BnB experience where a host can explain things to them and show them around.
> 
> Perhaps the real solution is to make it live up to its name and limit BnB licences to occupied apartments renting spare rooms only.


There's always couchsurfing.com - as far as I know that's still true to it's original concept.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

_Si_ said:


> It's interesting reading all the complaints about AirBnb and the tourists it brings. Of course I've seen the protests in Barcelona on the news so don't doubt it's a problem, but I live in an old mining town that's dying as the mines and power plant disappear so turning tourists away seems like madness. The only tourism we get is people passing through on the Camino de Santiago and I've never done any studies on it, but I doubt many of them are the type who go out drinking all night and move furniture when they get back.
> 
> My real-bug bear with AirBnb is that an empty apartment with a digital keypad on the door isn't a BnB. As people on the Camino tend to take it slow and have an interest in local culture I reckon they'd be the perfect candidates for a true BnB experience where a host can explain things to them and show them around.
> 
> Perhaps the real solution is to make it live up to its name and limit BnB licences to occupied apartments renting spare rooms only.


Yes, most/ a lot of the places now are just rented out like all other holiday rentals, no special Airbnb concept behind it all, and you'll find that people own more than one properties in the same area, just like where I live there are 2 or 3 families that own most of the bars...


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