# English at Spanish secondary school



## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi all,

Happy New Year! Hope you had a good Christmas 

My first question of the year is...

...As some of you know, I'm working as a private English teacher here in Barcelona. Tomorrow evening I'm meeting 2 boys aged 12 & 15 whose parents want them to have one to one English lessons. The 12 YO is in the first year of ESO, and the 15 YO in the third. Can anyone tell me what this means in terms of their level? Will the 12 YO have studied any English at primary school? How far do they get by third? I'm also googling, and am meeting them for a short consultation tomorrow before we start proper lessons, but it's always good to get advice here!

Thanks in advance


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Happy New Year! Hope you had a good Christmas
> 
> ...


they will have been studying English since at least age 7 probably

I say 'studying' because that doesn't mean they'll actually be able to _speak _English

the emphasis in language teaching in Spanish schools is on grammar rather than actual communication - they'll probably know English grammar way beyond any English child of the same age in the UK - or even A level stage!!


my daughters are 13 & 16 - they mostly have Spanish friends who thay have known since they were little - some of them speak reasonably good English & you can pretty much have a conversation with them - others can pass all the exams & yet barely speak a word....


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> they will have been studying English since at least age 7 probably
> 
> I say 'studying' because that doesn't mean they'll actually be able to _speak _English
> 
> ...


Hmm, interesting... thank you  That certainly fits with what I experienced when teaching Spanish adults/older teenagers in London: a lot of them had very good grammar but couldn't speak well.

I guess I'll only know for certain when I meet them - will let you know tomorrow


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

One of the problems is that most of the teachers are Spanish and the kids get English with a variety of Spanish accents, some of them as thick as treacle. Another problem is many of the teachers hate English and are not _per se_ English teachers but forced into it under the premise "you are a teacher, therefore you can teach anything". The best way to find out the level they are at is to get them to bring their books along - just hope that they are not OUP rubbish which, in our experience, is useless.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> One of the problems is that most of the teachers are Spanish and the kids get English with a variety of Spanish accents, some of them as thick as treacle. Another problem is many of the teachers hate English and are not _per se_ English teachers but forced into it under the premise "you are a teacher, therefore you can teach anything". The best way to find out the level they are at is to get them to bring their books along - just hope that they are not OUP rubbish which, in our experience, is useless.


Another problem we have encountered, is that our children are not being taught English at all but AMERICAN! The children then complain when I correct them - "ah but the teacher said ..."


At our school (semi-private) they are being taught "GOT" as in "this car has got four wheels"! I spoke to the teacher concerned and explained her error and was then shown the book used to teach English - there it was in black and white. They even say that the past participle is "GOTTEN" - argh! and that the verb being conjugated is "to have got" duh!

I explained that the phrase should have been "the car HAS four wheels" but the teacher told me I was wrong!!!!!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Another problem we have encountered, is that our children are not being taught English at all but AMERICAN! The children then complain when I correct them - "ah but the teacher said ..."
> 
> 
> At our school (semi-private) they are being taught "GOT" as in "this car has got four wheels"! I spoke to the teacher concerned and explained her error and was then shown the book used to teach English - there it was in black and white. They even say that the past participle is "GOTTEN" - argh! and that the verb being conjugated is "to have got" duh!
> ...


Since when is "have got" an Americanism?? I had never heard it used until I moved to Spain and was told to teach it! Yes, it is ridiculous that it is taught instead of plain old "have". But any English teacher (ie Spranish born teacher who teaches English) should know that plain old "have" is not incorrect! 

I have to disagree that American English is taught in schools. Sorry, all the books used British English (trousers, lift, lorry, etc). My kids have always have trouble with teachers who refuse to accept their American vocabulary/spelling.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kalohi said:


> Since when is "have got" an Americanism?? I had never heard it used until I moved to Spain and was told to teach it! Yes, it is ridiculous that it is taught instead of plain old "have". But any English teacher (ie Spranish born teacher who teaches English) should know that plain old "have" is not incorrect!
> 
> I have to disagree that American English is taught in schools. Sorry, all the books used British English (trousers, lift, lorry, etc). My kids have always have trouble with teachers who refuse to accept their American vocabulary/spelling.


same here - I had never heard it before but there it was in the textbook I was given to use at the academy I was working in - a British English one in fact


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

goingtobcn said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Happy New Year! Hope you had a good Christmas
> 
> ...


In my experience as an English teacher at a language academy, kids vary enormously in their level of English. Theoretically by 1st of ESO kids should be able to use the present simple and continuous, the future with going to, and the simple past, with basic vocabulary. By 3rd of ESO they've added in the past continuous, present perfect and 'will', and tons of irregular verbs. But this is in theory. In fact most kids don't have much of anything clear. You really need to see for yourself where they are. You should also determine what the parents' goals are for their kids. Is the goal for them to pass English is school? Improve oral fluency? Pass an official exam like the PET? The way you focus your class will depend on what the parents want the kids to get out of it.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

kalohi said:


> The way you focus your class will depend on what the parents want the kids to get out of it.


PLUS what the kids, themselves, want. We had a number of remedials (many at their parents' insistence) over the summer but after passing their retakes with good to excellent marks are striving to not only keep up but stay ahead of the rest of their schoolmates by means of continuing private lessons. Really a case/cases of success breeding success! We even have a couple of teachers' kids!


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Baldilocks - I definitely found a lot of my Spanish students back in the UK had very thick accents too!
Snikpoh - I agree with the others that "have/has got" isn't an Americanism. I do agree that it'd be easier just to use "have/has".... Students get confused with e.g. "the car has got 4 wheels" and think it's present perfect, but I and most of the native speakers I know use this construction a lot. Past participle of "to get" certainly isn't "gotten" in British English though!
Kalohi - All the coursebooks we used were British English. Thanks for your advice: so far, the parent have just said they want to improve their speaking, but I'll get a much better idea tomorrow.
And baldilocks again - definitely agree that it's important to ask them what they want too.

Thanks all


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Surprising!
Some people seem to have a lot of issues about American or British English, plus the English that they personally use. English is English in Canada, Australia, Ireland and a bunch of other countries. It has different vocab, some different grammar and different pronounciation and it doesn't make it more or less correct. It makes it English from that part of the world.
I was really surprised that some of you had never heard or used "have got". I use it 99% of the time and have American teacher colleagues who do too. Must depend on which part of the country you come from.
Anyway, back to goingtobcn, in the end, if the aim of the parents is that the students pass the school exams or get better grades, then *the English that's in their books, or that the teacher gives them* is what you'll have to teach. Obviously, if what is published is actually wrong then it'll be a more difficult situation, but nowadays it rarely is. It may sound a bit off, a bit unnatural, but that's a result of trying to dumb down everyday speech for a Spanish teenager to understand and reproduce.
Like everything, there are text books and textbooks. Some people have criticised books in the past because they use contractions instead of the full form of the verb "to be", but in natural native English the contracted form is far more common than the full form and therefore a lot of emphasis is given to using contractions. Text books are much more real English orientated these days and they try to get the students prepared as much as possible for the English that they'll here in an English speaking country.
Like I say, in the end it's the parents that will dictate the needs. If it's school exam orientated, then the teacher will end up being the dictator. Probably it'll be a lot of grammar and vocab, possibly listening and little speaking, but it depends. Get a good look at the books and try to log on to the publishers page.
Have fun!


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks PW - that's all useful stuff 
I used lots of different course books when teaching in the UK and definitely saw the things you mention.
Tomorrow is my free consultation so only a short meeting. After that, I should be better prepared to teach the first full lessons.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Surprising!
> Some people seem to have a lot of issues about American or British English, plus the English that they personally use. English is English in Canada, Australia, Ireland and a bunch of other countries. It has different vocab, some different grammar and different pronounciation and it doesn't make it more or less correct. It makes it English from that part of the world.
> I was really surprised that some of you had never heard or used "have got". I use it 99% of the time and have American teacher colleagues who do too. Must depend on which part of the country you come from.
> Anyway, back to goingtobcn, in the end, if the aim of the parents is that the students pass the school exams or get better grades, then *the English that's in their books, or that the teacher gives them* is what you'll have to teach. Obviously, if what is published is actually wrong then it'll be a more difficult situation, but nowadays it rarely is. It may sound a bit off, a bit unnatural, but that's a result of trying to dumb down everyday speech for a Spanish teenager to understand and reproduce.
> ...


Hear, I mean hear.
I am fatigued from my fog filled journey, Bilbao - Madrid.
Please correct asap mods!!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

My son, aged five, tried to explain to his teacher, Concha, during the English lesson in his bilingual school, that lemons were not 'sewer' but sour and that acorns grew on oak trees, not ack-orns, but she wouldn't have it!

Thick fog from 11am here in Madrid, like being back in London!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Madliz said:


> Thick fog from 11am here in Madrid, like being back in London!


Incredible, isn't it???


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Incredible, isn't it???


I've just seen it on the news 

it's totally clear here


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hear, I mean hear.
> I am fatigued from my fog filled journey, Bilbao - Madrid.
> Please correct asap mods!!


:lol:


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Another problem we have encountered, is that our children are not being taught English at all but AMERICAN! The children then complain when I correct them - "ah but the teacher said ..."
> 
> 
> At our school (semi-private) they are being taught "GOT" as in "this car has got four wheels"! I spoke to the teacher concerned and explained her error and was then shown the book used to teach English - there it was in black and white. They even say that the past participle is "GOTTEN" - argh! and that the verb being conjugated is "to have got" duh!
> ...


How on earth could you not have heard of the 'have got' construction?  It's a perfectly correct construction in British English and it's EVERYWHERE! I genuinely can't understand how it's possible for a British person not to have heard of this. You've never heard anyone say 'I haven't got any money'? or 'Have you got a car'?


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## Leanne7011 (Jan 4, 2013)

Both are correct I believe, I study linguistics in UNI. But it's new, not typical old English. I think it's just a matter of what you're used too. When I hear the likes of "I got four wheels", that sounds like bad grammar, whereas "I have got no money" sounds ok to me. It's still very wishy washy I'd prefer it not to be thought that way though, If I had a say.


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

Leanne7011 said:


> Both are correct I believe, I study linguistics in UNI. But it's new, not typical old English. I think it's just a matter of what you're used too. When I hear the likes of "I got four wheels", that sounds like bad grammar, whereas "I have got no money" sounds ok to me. It's still very wishy washy I'd prefer it not to be thought that way though, If I had a say.


'Have got' isn't wishy washy. It's perfectly correct English and is widely used. 'I got four wheels' is just bad grammar.


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## Leanne7011 (Jan 4, 2013)

Clemmie00 said:


> 'Have got' isn't wishy washy. It's perfectly correct English and is widely used. 'I got four wheels' is just bad grammar.


Haha do you have to go against everything I say? Amongst my age group, I have got four wheels is wishy washy as you just rarely here it, you'd hear I have four wheels a lot more frequently therefore making it wishy washy


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

Leanne7011 said:


> Haha do you have to go against everything I say? Amongst my age group, I have got four wheels is wishy washy as you just rarely here it, you'd hear I have four wheels a lot more frequently therefore making it wishy washy


No, but I have no idea how 'have got' could be thought of as wishy washy. It's your opinion and I'm sure you're correct about it not being widely used in Cork, but it's perfectly correct English, widely used in Britain and elsewhere. I see it every day in the press, in novels, in e-mails, everywhere.


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## Leanne7011 (Jan 4, 2013)

Clemmie00 said:


> No, but I have no idea how 'have got' could be thought of as wishy washy. It's your opinion and I'm sure you're correct about it not being widely used in Cork, but it's perfectly correct English, widely used in Britain and elsewhere. I see it every day in the press, in novels, in e-mails, everywhere.


Ok, we forgot that we live in different countries that practice different English in some ways. Nothing is wrong just some things are used more and less in different places. As with every language.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

On the subject of contractions of the verbs 'to be' and 'to have' - these are fine if the person knows the full form first, but the teaching sources (especially OUP) don't give the full form first, that is left to many chapters down the road and the student needs the full form for asking questions. "Mum, 're we going to the cinema?" or "Mum, are we going to the cinema?"

On the subject of 'I have' or 'I have got' the question is whether the student can distinguish the "to have" can be an auxilliary or a verb in its own right.


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Well I met the 12 YO today who is very funny, think he'll be good fun to teach... He's A1/A2 level.
His brother was ill so meeting him at the next lesson next week, but he's repeating 3rd year of ESO so needs support with English schoolwork and a grammar review especially.

Thank you again for all your advice


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