# European report on La Linea and Gibraltar



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

In its letter to Spain, the Commission recommends: 1) to optimise the physical space available on the Spanish side of the crossing point in view of ensuring a greater fluidity of traffic (and in particular to review the traffic organisation on entry into Spain and on exit from Spain in order to increase the number of vehicular lanes for travellers or to make better use of the existing lines); 2) to optimise risk-based profiling: carrying out more targeted checks, based on a refined risk analysis, in order to reduce the large amount of random border controls and 3) to develop the exchange of information with the United Kingdom on tobacco smuggling. 
In its letter to the United Kingdom, the Commission recommends: 1) to develop risk-based profiling (in particular Gibraltar should ensure non-systematic and risk analysis-based checks on travellers and their belongings upon exit from Gibraltar at the crossing point of La Línea de la Concepción); 2) optimising legislation and safeguards in view of contributing to an efficient fight against tobacco smuggling and 3) develop the exchange of intelligence on tobacco smuggling with Spain. 

More info here
EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Commission reports on the border situation in La Línea (Spain) and Gibraltar (UK)


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

An utter waste of time & money then ,but was the lunch nice ?
The other thing is the recommendation to the UK isn't really worth anything as Gibraltar is an independent colony & the UK guarantee's its sovereign status but has no say in matters of state.

I was reading an article early this week that said that sales of cigarettes were down in Spain, in 2012 , by 2000 million packets. Some of this could be due to people stopping but the vast majority is thought to be illegal smuggling. Unfortunately Gibraltar only sold 140 million packs of cigarettes in 2012. So even if ALL the cigarettes sold in Gibraltar were smuggled into Spain this only represents 7% of the missing amount ! Where's the other 93% coming from ?

They would be looking elsewhere for the smuggling if they truly wanted to do anything about it rather than just cause havoc & aggravation with Gibraltar .


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

There has always been people trying to take more than their allowance out of Gib, I know it, you know it and the police know it. It has gone on for years and apart from a few occasional hold ups in traffic, there has been little in the way of problems. The current crisis started with Gib dumping. concrete in an area to protect fishing grounds and that is the crux to this dispute. The Gibraltarian government must have been aware this would upset the Spanish and yet they were prepared for that to happen. Until they reach an agreement on that sort of action, the dispute will not go away. If Gib removed that concrete we could all go back to a normal existence, but there are political agendas going on and I doubt we will know about that. The UK government has to support Gibraltar come what may, public opinion back home will demand that. 
On a personal basis, it doesn't affect me. I just base my opinion on how I see it. In every dispute in every country, there are behind the scenes politics going on and this dispute will be no different.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Aron said:


> There has always been people trying to take more than their allowance out of Gib, I know it, you know it and the police know it. It has gone on for years and apart from a few occasional hold ups in traffic, there has been little in the way of problems. The current crisis started with Gib dumping. concrete in an area to protect fishing grounds and that is the crux to this dispute. The Gibraltarian government must have been aware this would upset the Spanish and yet they were prepared for that to happen. Until they reach an agreement on that sort of action, the dispute will not go away. If Gib removed that concrete we could all go back to a normal existence, but there are political agendas going on and I doubt we will know about that. The UK government has to support Gibraltar come what may, public opinion back home will demand that.
> On a personal basis, it doesn't affect me. I just base my opinion on how I see it. In every dispute in every country, there are behind the scenes politics going on and this dispute will be no different.


If only it was that simple. The Gibraltarian artificial reef, for that is what it is, has EU approval. Additionally Spain has dozens of these & has been building them for years ,as I posted a while back & complete with links to where they are. 
Also the Spanish originally approached Gibraltar, & inspected theirs & were assisted by Gibraltar, on how best to install/maintain theirs before they started construction! 
Finally , The Gibraltarians are paying wholly for there reefs, The Spanish have 75% EU grants for all theirs.

Yes it might well affect the Spanish fishermen out of the local ports but a recent investigation found that it will only affect 'bottom trawlers' , of which there is only one Spanish boat currently using this process & secondly the 'bottom trawling ' is totally illegal under EU rules as it disturbs & kills far more creatures than fish actually caught.

It was all a scheme to deflect criticism of the government during the quite period of the summer for the press. All smoke & mirrors.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Like most of these disputes, it's the 'ordinary' people that suffer. Workers, tourists and families with relatives on both sides of the border are those most affected by the dispute.
I doubt that EU observers or any politicians or diplomatic envoys have to queue at the border and have their briefcases inspected. They most likely are helicoptered over the waiting plebs beneath.

The recommendations are so obvious and sensible as to be almost unnecessary. Anyone with an IQ of more than a cuttlefish would suggest that yes, the access roads are ridiculously narrow for what is an international frontier.
Equally bleedin' obvious is the suggestion that smugglers and other criminals should be 'profiled' and that to stop and exhaustively search the cars of harmless daytrippers off to buy HP sauce and cheap gin at Morrisons is a waste of time and resources. ( I no longer have an interest in gin or any other spirits, cheap or expensive, on doctor's orders).

The current PP government in Spain is obviously keen to indulge in sabre-rattling over sovereignity to distract from the crisis. It's what governments do. The UK government cannot afford to turn deaf ears to the complaints of people who so desperately want to remain British...although it happened before with Hong Kong. But that was then.

It's clear that both Spain and the UK have an urgent common need to solve this small but noisy and insistent problem. Both Spain and the UK share huge fiscal losses from the lawful and unlawful activities connected with the peninsula. As I see it, no progress will be made until the Spanish economy picks up as the issue is too useful as a propaganda weapon for meaningful negotiations to take place.

It's equally clear how ineffective and downright useless the EU is in solving disputes between member states. As well as Spain v the UK over Gibraltar, there's still the long-festering sore of Cyprus which must be dealt with before any suggestion of Turkey's EU membership is mooted.

For these and all kinds of other reasons I'm beginning to think more and more that the UK needs to seriously rethink its relationship with the EU.
When we joined in the 1970s we joined a common market with no tariff walls to hinder trade. The 1976 Referendum was centred on membership of that kind of union. Nada mas.
Now we are a member state of a 'community' of culturally, economically and physically disparate nation states with a common foreign policy, a military task force, common laws and for many states a common currency.
And that is something I and millions of others would never have agreed to had we seen where a simple club of free traders would lead to fifty years on.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

There is no point in having a dispute over fishing in that area as there are virtually no fish there. You could trawl Tilbury Docks and find more fish!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> . So even if ALL the cigarettes sold in Gibraltar were smuggled into Spain this only represents 7% of the missing amount ! Where's the other 93% coming from ?
> .



Perhaps the Canary Isles, there is only 7% duty here. Ironic that the Rock is harassed yet we have never been checked when entering Spain, I wonder if the car ferries are checked.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Hepa said:


> Perhaps the Canary Isles, there is only 7% duty here. Ironic that the Rock is harassed yet we have never been checked when entering Spain, I wonder if the car ferries are checked.


We have been stopped three times at Portsmouth by customs driving a Spanish car, once at Plymouth and once at Caen in France. It doesn't bother us as we don't break the rules.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Hepa said:


> Perhaps the Canary Isles, there is only 7% duty here. Ironic that the Rock is harassed yet we have never been checked when entering Spain, I wonder if the car ferries are checked.


Andorra used to be another major entry point, even being smuggled into the UK!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> If only it was that simple. The Gibraltarian artificial reef, for that is what it is, has EU approval. Additionally Spain has dozens of these & has been building them for years ,as I posted a while back & complete with links to where they are.
> Also the Spanish originally approached Gibraltar, & inspected theirs & were assisted by Gibraltar, on how best to install/maintain theirs before they started construction!
> Finally , The Gibraltarians are paying wholly for there reefs, The Spanish have 75% EU grants for all theirs.


I think you posted a link about this in a previous thread. If it was you, could you post it again Gus (more possible class material with my lawyer!)


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Yer tiz!

Gibraltar row: Spain 'misinformed' over artificial reef | Environment | theguardian.com

2002 reefs of Europe.
Spain had 14 then.
http://140.121.160.124/sm/961_2/李佳遠.pdf

Original thread here ;links on page 10
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...living-spain/176737-gibraltar-latest-bbc.html

P.s. I've just noticed that on the reef map , numbers 9 & 14 , Andalucia & Catalunia are reversed.

"At least 57 reefs have been constructed in Spanish waters, some several km in area, mainly with habitat
protection (anti-trawling) and/or artisanal fishery enhancement as the main aims."

apparently that report doesn't show Every reef in europe but only what they consider the main ones.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Yer tiz!
> 
> Gibraltar row: Spain 'misinformed' over artificial reef | Environment | theguardian.com
> 
> ...


THanks very much Gus!


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