# Important - new irs ovdi



## Guest

Please check the latest report from the IRS regarding the reopening of the OVDI. The memo is also on the IRS website. Not sure what it means that they are putting everyone in this program that came forward after the last one closed. New increased penalties, etc. Please read. 


IRS Offshore Programs Produce $4.4 Billion To Date for Nation?s Taxpayers; Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program Reopens



IRS Reopens Offshore Amnesty Program For Cheats And Non-Cheats Alike - Forbes


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## saddened

CanadianAtHeart said:


> Please check the latest report from the IRS regarding the reopening of the OVDI. The memo is also on the IRS website. Not sure what it means that they are putting everyone in this program that came forward after the last one closed. New increased penalties, etc. Please read.
> 
> 
> IRS Offshore Programs Produce $4.4 Billion To Date for Nation?s Taxpayers; Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program Reopens
> 
> 
> 
> IRS Reopens Offshore Amnesty Program For Cheats And Non-Cheats Alike - Forbes


ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!


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## Guest

CanadianAtHeart said:


> Please check the latest report from the IRS regarding the reopening of the OVDI. The memo is also on the IRS website. Not sure what it means that they are putting everyone in this program that came forward after the last one closed. New increased penalties, etc. Please read.
> 
> 
> IRS Offshore Programs Produce $4.4 Billion To Date for Nation?s Taxpayers; Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program Reopens
> 
> 
> 
> IRS Reopens Offshore Amnesty Program For Cheats And Non-Cheats Alike - Forbes


Thanks and Wow! -- could you post at The Isaac Brock Society | Liberty and justice for all United States persons in Canada and abroad There are lots of folks there who will be interested.


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## Guest

Calgary411 said:


> Thanks and Wow! -- could you post at The Isaac Brock Society | Liberty and justice for all United States persons in Canada and abroad There are lots of folks there who will be interested.


Hi,

I'll try to post, but I'm not registered there, so if you are, it might be faster for you to get it out over there. I'm still trying to decipher what Shulman wrote, but I'm thinking that the people who are being put into the latest version are those who identified under OVDI after the deadline. I'm not sure where those who went the quiet route because they had no taxes owing and only missing documents are in all this.


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## Mona Lisa76

CanadianAtHeart said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'll try to post, but I'm not registered there, so if you are, it might be faster for you to get it out over there. I'm still trying to decipher what Shulman wrote, but I'm thinking that the people who are being put into the latest version are those who identified under OVDI after the deadline. I'm not sure where those who went the quiet route because they had no taxes owing and only missing documents are in all this.


Good question


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## JHarmon

A bit of hope in the following:

"This includes awareness by dual citizens and others who may be delinquent in filing, but owe no U.S. tax. The IRS is currently developing procedures by which these taxpayers may come into compliance with U.S. tax law."

Perhaps slowly they're finally catching on?

As for the other piece: I don't take much stock in articles from Forbes anymore - The woman who wrote the related article consistently equates any foreign bank account with money laundering and tax evasion, while frequent offshore commentator Robert Wood offers very little in the way of original insight, basically passing off rehashed IRS press releases as his own while adding a bit of gloom-and-doom for good measure.


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## Guest

CanadianAtHeart said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'll try to post, but I'm not registered there, so if you are, it might be faster for you to get it out over there. I'm still trying to decipher what Shulman wrote, but I'm thinking that the people who are being put into the latest version are those who identified under OVDI after the deadline. I'm not sure where those who went the quiet route because they had no taxes owing and only missing documents are in all this.


Thanks, I took the liberty of doing so and there are already 5 comments to it posted. I think you should check this site out for very good commentary on all of this. Thanks so much for posting these links!!


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## Guest

*Unexpected News*



CanadianAtHeart said:


> Please check the latest report from the IRS regarding the reopening of the OVDI. The memo is also on the IRS website. Not sure what it means that they are putting everyone in this program that came forward after the last one closed. New increased penalties, etc. Please read.
> 
> 
> IRS Offshore Programs Produce $4.4 Billion To Date for Nation?s Taxpayers; Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program Reopens
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, this is awful news. :jaw: I especially dislike this:
> 
> "The program is similar to the 2011 program in many ways, but with a few key differences. Unlike last year, there is no set deadline for people to apply.
> However, the terms of the program could *change at any time going forward.* For example, the IRS may increase penalties in the program for all or some taxpayers or defined classes of taxpayers – or decide to end the program entirely at any point.:
> 
> "For the new program, the penalty framework requires individuals to pay a penalty of *27.5 percent of the highest aggregate balance *in foreign bank accounts/entities or value of foreign assets during the eight full tax years prior to the disclosure. That is up from 25 percent in the 2011 program. Some taxpayers will be eligible for 5 or 12.5 percent penalties; these remain the same in the new program as in 2011."
> 
> I find it completely confusing that there is a statement regarding duals and working something out versus the indication in December, that refunds could be given for those penalized after the last OVDI. This makes no sense to me at all and creates more distrust as far as I'm concerned. :ballchain:
> 
> I'm really glad I've got 4 years of returns/FUBARS submitted and a final appointment January 20, to renounce. That will leave 2011 and the final return plus 8854. I was still doubting, but now, I've made my mind up for sure. Absolutely no point in sticking around for any more of this. :frusty:


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## Guest

CanadianAtHeart said:


> ..."I'm still trying to decipher what Shulman wrote, but I'm thinking that the people who are being put into the latest version are those who identified under OVDI after the deadline. I'm not sure where those who went the quiet route because they had no taxes owing and only missing documents are in all this."


Although I am totally freaking out over this statement "Those who have come in since the 2011 program closed last year _will be able _to be treated....," I remember reading Peg's story and I think you actually have take a number of actions resulting in pre-clearance before being entered into OVDI. So I am keeping my fingers crossed that my voluntary disclosure, based upon the December IRS statement, does not make me automatically enrolled. If so, I am exactly back to where I started on Sept 14, prepared to refuse to pay, be ready to never be able to enter the US again and the whole horrible ,unendingtension, fear and anxiety.

How do others read this phrase?


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## Guest

*Hello from Cafreeb*

I phoned Cafreeb to make sure this news was communicated. The only reason for the long absence is computer break down. So, a "hello to all" was communicated and very good news, Cafreeb's CDN citizenship ceremony is Jan 23! And as you can imagine, reaction to this news is :yell: :mad2:


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## Guest

nobledreamer said:


> Although I am totally freaking out over this statement "Those who have come in since the 2011 program closed last year _will be able _to be treated....," I remember reading Peg's story and I think you actually have take a number of actions resulting in pre-clearance before being entered into OVDI. So I am keeping my fingers crossed that my voluntary disclosure, based upon the December IRS statement, does not make me automatically enrolled. If so, I am exactly back to where I started on Sept 14, prepared to refuse to pay, be ready to never be able to enter the US again and the whole horrible ,unendingtension, fear and anxiety.
> 
> How do others read this phrase?


It totally boggles my mind after the December 7th missive.

The IRS is currently developing procedures by which these taxpayers may come into compliance with U.S. tax law. The IRS is also committed to educating all taxpayers so that they understand their U.S. tax responsibilities.

More details will be available within the next month on IRS.gov. In addition, the IRS will be updating key Frequently Asked Questions and providing additional specifics on the offshore program.

Here is an interpretation by Moodys LLP: IRS Promises New Procedure for Taxpayers Who Haven't Filed But Owe No Tax And Indefinitely Extends Offshore Voluntary Disclosure (OVDI) Program


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## Guest

nobledreamer said:


> I phoned Cafreeb to make sure this news was communicated. The only reason for the long absence is computer break down. So, a "hello to all" was communicated and very good news, Cafreeb's CDN citizenship ceremony is Jan 23! And as you can imagine, reaction to this news is :yell: :mad2:


I'm so glad to hear that -- I sent her a note today, saying I was thinking of her and hoped all was OK. 

Yea on January 23rd Canadian Citizenship for Cafreeb!!!

Let's get her computer fixed!!!!!!!!!!


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## saddened

Calgary411 said:


> I'm so glad to hear that -- I sent her a note today, saying I was thinking of her and hoped all was OK.
> 
> Yea on January 23rd Canadian Citizenship for Cafreeb!!!
> 
> Let's get her computer fixed!!!!!!!!!!


Yeah!!! CAFREEB!!! Congratulations!!!:canada::canada:


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## Ladyhawk

Calgary411 said:


> It totally boggles my mind after the December 7th missive.
> 
> The IRS is currently developing procedures by which these taxpayers may come into compliance with U.S. tax law. The IRS is also committed to educating all taxpayers so that they understand their U.S. tax responsibilities.
> 
> More details will be available within the next month on IRS.gov. In addition, the IRS will be updating key Frequently Asked Questions and providing additional specifics on the offshore program.
> 
> Here is an interpretation by Moodys LLP: IRS Promises New Procedure for Taxpayers Who Haven't Filed But Owe No Tax And Indefinitely Extends Offshore Voluntary Disclosure (OVDI) Program




I do not understand Moody's saying "this is a very promising development". What's with "new procedures by which these taxpayers (ie, delinquent but owing no taxes) may come into compliance". Well how about they just file their delinquent returns with the "Tax owing ZERO" and then nothing happens to them, just like delinquent filers who live IN the US? 

"New procedure" for someone who just hasn't filed and owes no money does not sound "promising", it sounds bloody ominous. It sounds like they are going to fine us. Why not, they're on a roll with their shiny new $4billion buckaroos they got from the last sh*t-scaring "procedures".


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## Guest

Ladyhawk said:


> I do not understand Moody's saying "this is a very promising development". What's with "new procedures by which these taxpayers (ie, delinquent but owing no taxes) may come into compliance". Well how about they just file their delinquent returns with the "Tax owing ZERO" and then nothing happens to them, just like delinquent filers who live IN the US?
> 
> "New procedure" for someone who just hasn't filed and owes no money does not sound "promising", it sounds bloody ominous. It sounds like they are going to fine us. Why not, they're on a roll with their shiny new $4billion buckaroos they got from the last sh*t-scaring "procedures".


Well, they _are_ tax advisors and we all know who gains from IRS' messes.
I agree, it sounds frightenly onimous and like there is not going to be a way out, very soon.
And just imagine, US cops on Canadian soil........


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## Guest

nobledreamer said:


> Well, they _are_ tax advisors and we all know who gains from IRS' messes.
> I agree, it sounds frightenly onimous and like there is not going to be a way out, very soon.
> And just imagine, US cops on Canadian soil........



A growth industry -- many, like the present tax accountant I have (very good) don't want any more US clients. The immigration lawyer I went to see earlier this year said that he was looking for a good tax accountant as his was retiring.


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## Ladyhawk

Calgary411 said:


> A growth industry -- many, like the present tax accountant I have (very good) don't want any more US clients. The immigration lawyer I went to see earlier this year said that he was looking for a good tax accountant as his was retiring.


I am trying to do my returns myself. I am bloody resentful that the tax code is so complex you can't do them yourself any more. If I goof I can always file an amended return and say "oops sorry!"


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## Lovecheese

So what is this meaning now???if you don't owe us taxes and file back now you will get fined? This is nonsense! They can only fine people penalties on taxes owing...correct? Nothing to do with the wonderful FBAR which I'm still certain they would have quite a fight to get money out of any of us on Canadian soil.


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## Guest

*Our fave, Sen Levin's comments on IRS announcement*

Carl Levin - United States Senator for Michigan: Newsroom - Press Releases

Levin Statement on the IRS Announcement of a Third Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program

Monday, January 9, 2012

WASHINGTON – Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., today made the following statement regarding the IRS announcement that it is reopening its offshore voluntary disclosre program:

"The fact that 33,000 taxpayers have turned themselves in and paid $4.4 billion in back taxes, with more to follow, *shows how enormous the offshore tax evasion problem is*. Taxpayers are turning themselves in, because federal prosecutors have finally begun to go after the individual tax haven banks, bankers, and other financial professionals helping them cheat on their taxes. The Justice Department needs to keep up the pressure to stop offshore tax evasion costing us an estimated in $100 billion each year in unpaid taxes. And Congress must finally enact stronger laws to combat offshore tax abuses, including passing my Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act, S. 1346."

What an self-possessed idiot. He really only knows the Swiss Bank side of it all. I really wonder how many of the 33,000 are USC's in Canada.......


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## Peg

Must stop reading these notes at bedtime... :frusty:

Sometimes I think it would be beneficial to take a break from even thinking about the IRS in case I need to build up energy to fight them. For what, I don't know since I don't owe taxes and *gasp* merely had bank and retirement accounts in the country in which I live.


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## Peg

Ladyhawk said:


> I am trying to do my returns myself. I am bloody resentful that the tax code is so complex you can't do them yourself any more. If I goof I can always file an amended return and say "oops sorry!"


I did them by myself and patiently wait to hear what they thought of my work


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## Lovecheese

I still think us who did quiet disclosures stand a good chance with no taxes owing...this is just more scare tactics for the big money accounts people are hiding


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## pwdunn

*Press release: Isaac Brock Society*

*Caution to U.S. Citizens and U.S./Canada dual citizens who are residents of Canada about the IRS announcement (IR-2012-5) January 9, 2012, regarding Offshore Voluntary Disclosure*

On January 9, 2012, the IRS announced a renewed Offshore Voluntary Disclosure program. This is an IRS program designed to bring tax cheats into compliance. During the last two disclosure programs in 2009 and 2011, a significant number of unsuspecting Canadian residents entered these programs to “make it right” with IRS. We strongly warn law-abiding Canadian residents of the dangers of entering this program which is intended to attract tax cheats who live in the United States but have undisclosed offshore accounts.

The United States has dusted off a long neglected, possibly unconstitutional law which requires all United States persons to file a yearly disclosure of foreign financial accounts (FBAR). There is widespread ignorance of FBAR, and up until recently, very limited compliance. A significant number of Canadians learned about the 2011 Offshore Voluntary Disclosure program from the Canadian media and entered it in fear, not realizing that the IRS had every intention of levying fines of 25% of their net worth (or in some cases 5% for those who were unaware that they were United States citizens), even though in most cases they owed no taxes to the United States, had no knowledge of the FBAR reporting requirement, and had innocent and necessary bank accounts in accordance with the laws of Canada. As a result of this crackdown by the IRS, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty went to bat for Canadian residents, insisting that the IRS get off the backs of hard working Canadian residents who had done no wrong and who were abiding by the tax and banking laws of Canada. “Canada is not a tax haven”, he insisted. As a result of Flaherty’s efforts, United States Ambassador to Canada, David Jacobson tried to assure Canadians that the IRS was not out to get grandma’s bank accounts. He said, “My message on this is to sit tight. We are not unreasonable. We are not unsympathetic. We are not irresponsible.” Law abiding residents of Canada, please do “sit tight”. Do not enter this program out of fear, and do not allow a lawyer to enter you into this program without clearly explaining why you should. If you enter the program, the IRS will surely fine you up to 27.5% of all of your monetary and non-monetary financial assets.

All residents of Canada, who may be affected by the extra-territorial reporting requirements of the United States, should also know the following points:

(1) The Canadian government has said it will not enforce the collection of FBAR fines. Thus the IRS has no means to collect fines from any accounts in Canada.

(2) The Canadian government has said it will not collect taxes for the IRS from Canadian citizens, provided that the person incurred the tax liability while a Canadian citizen.

(3) The IRS cannot be trusted. The Tax Advocate Service, the ombudsman service within the IRS, issued a rare Tax Advocate Directive rebuking the IRS and ordering them to respect the terms of the program and be more lenient, returning to the policy of the FAQ 35 which said that those who enter the program would not be fined more than they would have under existing statutes. To date the IRS has ignored the Taxpayer Advocate Directive. This suggests that the IRS has decided that Offshore Voluntary Disclosure should be a revenue generating instrument and apply the fines of 20% and 25% without regard to the innocence of the people that entered into the program. The IRS presumes that everyone who enters these programs is a tax cheat.

(4) We must stress that the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure program, which the IRS has announced, is not a mandatory law but a voluntary program. Therefore, enter it only if you wish to relinquish voluntarily 27.5% of your hard earned savings and other assets to the IRS.

(5) If you are a United States citizen or Green Card holder and are or were unaware of your filing requirements, we urge you to get sound information regarding your rights and responsibilities from reliable sources. If you are living in Canada and abiding by Canadian tax laws, you are not a criminal nor should you permit the government in Washington D. C. to treat you as one. Know also that “cross border” accountants and lawyers do not have equal standards of competency or morality. Buyer beware!

_Peter W. Dunn has written this press release on behalf of the Isaac Brock Society, which is an informal group of individuals who are concerned about the treatment by the United States government of US persons who live in Canada and abroad. We have come together to fight the overreach of the IRS and to provide one another with accurate information, peer-to-peer advice and comfort. Our website is The Isaac Brock Society | Liberty and justice for all United States persons in Canada and abroad._


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## jimmyjam

*never visit IRS website*

The IRS website is designed to induce panic and fear.

I am convinced it is their strategy and this whole FATCA / FBAR thing is just an extreme application of that strategy.

You cannot get objective information from the IRS website, much better to ask your CPA or tax lawyer what his experience has been.

Don't use their website unless you want to scare yourselves silly.


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## Guest

jimmyjam said:


> The IRS website is designed to induce panic and fear.
> 
> I am convinced it is their strategy and this whole FATCA / FBAR thing is just an extreme application of that strategy.
> 
> You cannot get objective information from the IRS website, much better to ask your CPA or tax lawyer what his experience has been.
> 
> Don't use their website unless you want to scare yourselves silly.


I don't trust that what anyone's experience has been is enough -- we seem to be in uncharted waters.


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## AmTaker

My impression is that the IRS/DoJ may be on the verge of getting more names from Swiss banks, or at least think they might be able to do so or want to give the impression that they will do so etc etc. So for people who have accounts at Wegelin Bank or any other bank in the IRS's crosshairs who think their names may be turned over to the IRS, this provides a 'guaranteed' penalty ceiling. I don't think it has any significance for an expat who owes little to no taxes and has no other 'red flags'.


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## jimmyjam

*Tax inspectors at the embassies + Special campus for disclosures*

I found this video of a conference on FATCA in Florida.

Here is a CPA explaining about what the IRS is doing to ramp up officers and scrutinize quiet disclosures; also comments about how the IRS is sending tax inspectors to be residents in embassies around the world.


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## Guest

jimmyjam said:


> I found this video of a conference on FATCA in Florida.
> 
> Here is a CPA explaining about what the IRS is doing to ramp up officers and scrutinize quiet disclosures; also comments about how the IRS is sending tax inspectors to be residents in embassies around the world.
> 
> 
> 8 - Quiet Filings.mp4 - YouTube


*DON'T BOTHER LISTENING TO THIS VIDEO*
I don't know who this guy is, but given that he is a "CPA" I can say that he represents the worst of his kind. His "talk" was full of misinformation, innuendo, and fear-mongering. I'm not sure who his audience was, but it is clear that he is trying to drum up business by pressing people into fearful action. A couple of things:

1) He clearly does not understand the distinction between "quiet" disclosure, voluntarily entering into the OVDI program, and simply sending in forms that we didn't even know existed in the first place. He has no concept of how the program has unfolded. 

2) He talks about the Treasury Dept. "campus" in Austin, Texas as if it sprung up overnight. It has been there for decades. I have family there, some who have worked at the facility. Sorry, buddy. 

3) He talks about IRS agents being posted as attaches at embassies around the world. I would welcome an agent posted to any Canadian embassy or consulate designated to help me fill out these &^%&* impossible forms. The IRS website clearly shows that there are very few IRS contacts in very few places. We don't even get a toll-free number for Pete's sake. Plus, if these are "secret" agents, how does he know about it? 

4) He makes a confused and confusing statement at the end that we can all bet that if we put our money in any place that is NOT considered a tax haven that we will even more carefully scrutinzed, so we had better be prepared. This leads me to believe that he is trying to scare Canadians because we are not considered a tax haven.

DON'T GIVE HIM THE TIME OF DAY. I wish there was some way to warn his audience, whom I suspect may be mainly Canadian snowbirds and the elderly. VULTURE WARNING!!!


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## TooMuchCoffee

CanadianAtHeart said:


> *DON'T BOTHER LISTENING TO THIS VIDEO*
> 4) He makes a confused and confusing statement at the end that we can all bet that if we put our money in any place that is NOT considered a tax haven that we will even more carefully scrutinzed


I initially interpreted the last point the same way as you, and then went back and listened to it a few more times because it doesn't make any sense. 

I think he just stuttered over what he was trying to say, which is "If you put money in any place that is NOW considered a tax haven..."

Otherwise...well, as I said, it doesn't make sense.


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## Guest

TooMuchCoffee said:


> I initially interpreted the last point the same way as you, and then went back and listened to it a few more times because it doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I think he just stuttered over what he was trying to say, which is "If you put money in any place that is NOW considered a tax haven..."
> 
> Otherwise...well, as I said, it doesn't make sense.


I did the same, listened a couple of times, and decided it makes no sense (or nonsense, as the case may be :confused2. Clearly, no matter what, this type of person is too dangerous to have as one's advocate. I hate the thought of more innocent and vulnerable people lead down this slippery slope because of people like this.


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## JHarmon

CanadianAtHeart said:


> *DON'T BOTHER LISTENING TO THIS VIDEO*
> 
> DON'T GIVE HIM THE TIME OF DAY. I wish there was some way to warn his audience, whom I suspect may be mainly Canadian snowbirds and the elderly. VULTURE WARNING!!!



Bravo! I've come to that conclusion as well. Aside from folks such as Jack Townsend, Phil Hodgen (both of whom run very good blogs) and a gentleman from New Brunswick (the name doesn't spring to mind), I don't think there's been too many tax professionals who have written about these issues without inevitably slinking into scaremongering or simply carrying the IRS' water.


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## somerfugl

Ladyhawk said:


> I am trying to do my returns myself. I am bloody resentful that the tax code is so complex you can't do them yourself any more. If I goof I can always file an amended return and say "oops sorry!"


I've heard you can be fined if you file yourself and make a mistake. Is this true? The only way I can file is if I do it myself, but I am afraid to. I don't owe any tax, and don't want to be fined for a stupid mistake. I know the CRA won't collect any fines but it would mean no more travel to the US to visit relatives.


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## Ladyhawk

somerfugl said:


> I've heard you can be fined if you file yourself and make a mistake. Is this true? The only way I can file is if I do it myself, but I am afraid to. I don't owe any tax, and don't want to be fined for a stupid mistake. I know the CRA won't collect any fines but it would mean no more travel to the US to visit relatives.


Nobody can predict what the IRS will do, but although they talk about fines for inaccuracy, that is within OVDI and is for people they think are willful cheats. I think of how they must handle ordinary maybe poorly-educated people in the US - they simply cannot punish everyone who makes a simple mistake on their tax returns, nor everybody who is behind in filing.

I know I made mistakes on my 2011, which was the first one I did, but you can file an amended return anytime. If you make a mistake, the IRS will first ask you for clarification of what you did, long before they fine you. And as long as you have not defied them if they come back with questions, and you have filed returns (send by registered mail and carry the receipt with you when crossing the border), there won't be any problems at the border. If you don't hear from them, no news is good news. If you owe no taxes, they may never contact you at all, even if they find minor errors.


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## Guest

somerfugl said:


> I've heard you can be fined if you file yourself and make a mistake. Is this true? The only way I can file is if I do it myself, but I am afraid to. I don't owe any tax, and don't want to be fined for a stupid mistake. I know the CRA won't collect any fines but it would mean no more travel to the US to visit relatives.


The unfortunate truth is, yes, you can be fined or penalized for making mistakes on your income tax reports and on the information reporting docs (such as FBAR). However, there are all kinds of factors to take into account, and as Bev (most excellent poster/moderator/commentator you will find on any of these threads) has frequently pointed out, you will likely have a chance to correct mistakes that are clearly not intentional, outrageous, or grossly misrepresenting your circumstances. The same applies to any professional who might prepare your form. But the IRS website clearly states that we are ultimately responsible for what goes on our forms, regardless who prepares them. 

That said, we will continue to have to live with the threat of outrageous penalties, legal actions that will destroy our lives and the lives of those we are connected to, and nightmarishly complex and indecipherable reporting forms that encourage mistakes because of the actions of a few very wealthy criminals who will remain untouched. 

This is made even worse because those who have the power to help us rub their hands together with sinister glee over the Hell they have put us in and merely see it as a way to keep us cowering with anguish and fear. Or, as they pat us on the heads saying "there, there, don't you fret" while we say, with an air of puzzlement, "Grandma, what big teeth you have......." 

Remember, these are the same people who, as children, plucked the wings from flies and watched them buzz helplessly while they tried to ignite them with a magnifying glass.


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## jimmyjam

*you guys are right but I can't remove that video*



TooMuchCoffee said:


> Otherwise...well, as I said, it doesn't make sense.


Sorry guys for planting that bomb; you are absolutely right these people are scare mongers.

I have been out of the US for far too long, in the countries I have lived in recently, accountants, lawyers and doctors actually and honestly really try to help their clients / patients instead of trying to extort money out of them by scaring them like in the USA.

For me someone who is an accountant is authentically there to help you - this is the way it is in my country - sorry for being so naive!

Mea culpa.


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## jimmyjam

*its the legal fees too not just the tax or penalty*



CanadianAtHeart said:


> That said, we will continue to have to live with the threat of outrageous penalties, legal actions that will destroy our lives and the lives of those we are connected to, and nightmarishly complex and indecipherable reporting forms that encourage mistakes because of the actions of a few very wealthy criminals who will remain untouched.


You are right, the legal fees can easily be higher than any penalties; if for some reason you get targeted you are going to lose a LOT of money even if you "win" your case against the IRS.


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## justbrowsing

jimmyjam said:


> Sorry guys for planting that bomb; you are absolutely right these people are scare mongers.
> 
> I have been out of the US for far too long, in the countries I have lived in recently, accountants, lawyers and doctors actually and honestly really try to help their clients / patients instead of trying to extort money out of them by scaring them like in the USA.
> 
> For me someone who is an accountant is authentically there to help you - this is the way it is in my country - sorry for being so naive!
> 
> Mea culpa.


From what I have seen the Canadian accountants and lawyers are not far behind those in the US in terms of trying to scare the heck out of us. $2500 per 1040 and another $2500 per fbar being quoted by a medium size CDN accounting firm, give me a break. Ripoff artists and totally unethical trying to take advantage of our misery.


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## Guest

jimmyjam said:


> Sorry guys for planting that bomb; you are absolutely right these people are scare mongers.
> 
> I have been out of the US for far too long, in the countries I have lived in recently, accountants, lawyers and doctors actually and honestly really try to help their clients / patients instead of trying to extort money out of them by scaring them like in the USA.
> 
> For me someone who is an accountant is authentically there to help you - this is the way it is in my country - sorry for being so naive!
> 
> Mea culpa.


No need for the apology for the posting! Everything serves to educate us. We certainly need to be aware of what's out there and we can never know what might help (or harm). It's good to see discussion and review, and the critical analysis that allows us to bypass the bad, (a good example: the infomercial over on another thread for a tax accountant that got the boot). I'm very proud of us all for being a little calmer and a lot more analytical, even while we drift through a world of uncertainty.


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## Guest

*Maybe this will make you think twice about preparing your own taxes*



somerfugl said:


> I've heard you can be fined if you file yourself and make a mistake. Is this true? The only way I can file is if I do it myself, but I am afraid to. I don't owe any tax, and don't want to be fined for a stupid mistake. I know the CRA won't collect any fines but it would mean no more travel to the US to visit relatives.


Commissioner Schulman says some interesting things about this:

"IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman does not file his own taxes in part because he believes the tax code is complex." :heh:

IRS commissioner doesn't file his own taxes - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room


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## pwdunn

*professional help.*



nobledreamer said:


> Commissioner Schulman says some interesting things about this:
> 
> "IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman does not file his own taxes in part because he believes the tax code is complex." :heh:
> 
> IRS commissioner doesn't file his own taxes - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room


That man needs professional help, and I don't mean a tax specialist.


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