# Driving fine in Florence



## denz1968 (Oct 17, 2019)

Hi there all

I was on holiday in Florence from the UK

I have received a fine for driving in a bus lane in the city whilst there.

Should I pay? I have been referred here from MoneysavingExpert forums as they said you guys may be able to help me better


Thanks in advance


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## Troz (Jan 29, 2018)

Were you driving your own car or a hire car, and if the latter did you receive the fine directly or via the hire car company? If the former I'd say you should definitely pay. If the latter I'd say you should probably pay. Years ago you could get away with not paying but I for one would not risk it now. The Italian authorities are getting more organised, and you are not dealing with some rural comune but the Florence city government.

There is also the consideration that Italian authorities are becoming much more conscious of the financial and social costs they bear from tourism, Florence particularly so. This could make them more inclined to pursue it.


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## denz1968 (Oct 17, 2019)

Troz said:


> Were you driving your own car or a hire car, and if the latter did you receive the fine directly or via the hire car company? If the former I'd say you should definitely pay. If the latter I'd say you should probably pay. Years ago you could get away with not paying but I for one would not risk it now. The Italian authorities are getting more organised, and you are not dealing with some rural comune but the Florence city government.
> 
> There is also the consideration that Italian authorities are becoming much more conscious of the financial and social costs they bear from tourism, Florence particularly so. This could make them more inclined to pursue it.



The fine has come direct from Commune Di Firenze - Polizia Municipale

It has taken 9 months to arrive though from the hire car company notifying me of the issue, and even that was 4 months after we had visited, so the offence is a year old now


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## GeordieBorn (Jul 15, 2016)

If you did so, then you should pay the fine. If you are unsure, then you could contest it, but I would suggest not. Put it down to one of the problems of choosing to drive abroad in big towns or cities. I hope it is not a large fine and/or with penalties. If it does have the latter there are likely high costs if not paid within a certain time.


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## denz1968 (Oct 17, 2019)

GeordieBorn said:


> If you did so, then you should pay the fine. If you are unsure, then you could contest it, but I would suggest not. Put it down to one of the problems of choosing to drive abroad in big towns or cities. I hope it is not a large fine and/or with penalties. If it does have the latter there are likely high costs if not paid within a certain time.



82 Euros is the fine if paid within 60 days

Just been googling though and it looks like case C-224/00 has a bearing and they have to notify you in 210 days. My notification is close to a year.

So I'm thinking of appealing on those grounds


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Notification isn't from the offense if you're driving a rental. It's from when the rental firm notifies them of the driver.


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## denz1968 (Oct 17, 2019)

NickZ said:


> Notification isn't from the offense if you're driving a rental. It's from when the rental firm notifies them of the driver.



The rental have already charged me 60 euro for supply of my information in January this year.

This now the actual fine


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Yes but the clock doesn't start ticking until they notify the city.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

Of course paying the fine for the offense you committed is the right thing to do.
Sincerely,
Boy Scout


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## Troz (Jan 29, 2018)

PauloPievese said:


> Of course paying the fine for the offense you committed is the right thing to do.
> Sincerely,
> Boy Scout


Upstanding citizens though we all are, I suspect that the OP was not referred to this forum for ethical advice  

But since we're on the subject, about 15 years ago a (cough) friend received a fine in similar circumstances which he did not pay, mainly because he couldn't work out how to do so from overseas. But unlike the OP, he didn't receive the notice directly from the authorities - the hire car company forwarded it to him. Next time he returned to Italy and presented his driving licence at a car rental desk, he did feel rather nervous but fortunately there did not seem to have been an Interpol alert out for him. Things are different now, overseas payments are much easier, and the Comune di Firenze has the OP's name as the offender, not Hertz or Avis.

Fines are also supposed to be collectable across the EU - see https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/types-judicial-cooperation/payment-fines_en. It may be that the trigger for invoking that mechanism could be a default judgement being recorded against the OP for non-payment. I read somewhere that this arrangement is the reason one no longer sees cars with German and Swiss plates being driven at ridiculous speeds on Italian roads as one did 20 years ago.

Setting aside matters for the OP's conscience, I would argue on pragmatic grounds that paying the fine is a good idea in order to avoid an unquantifiable but not negligible risk that the alternative might be more costly.


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## GeordieBorn (Jul 15, 2016)

I can see the hassle of paying being an issue, as for paying, it is relatively simple and cheap (2-3 euro) if you have an IBAN/SWIFT a/c number. Transfrwise or Currencyfair. Used them both in the past quite often and very good and reliable companies. If it’s a matter of principle, then I can’t argue with that, but Italy is in my opinion I much more costly place in the principle stakes…


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

*Moral Ambivalence*



Troz said:


> the OP was not referred to this forum for ethical advice


Funny how it works out.
Avoid risk? Pay the fine
Do the right thing? Pay the fine

When I think of things I should have been ticketed for; e.g. blithely cruising through pedestrian zones, or, my favorite, misinterpreting the ambiguity of "free" parking.

:flypig:


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## denz1968 (Oct 17, 2019)

Thanks all for the input

I have gone back on the Italians fine portal asking for photo evidence. 
Doing some googling there is a European case which brings the notification time to 220 days. 
They are clearly longer than this.

I have also looked at the photo evidence (separate Italian website) and it is just the rear of the car. So when they send the evidence I will ask for photo of who was driving as we had two named drivers on the vehicle

Basically then I will ask for the fine letter to be translated correctly in my native language (as per the European case law)

I will make it hard for the Italians basically

Thanks


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Not really. The fine goes to the car owner. In this case the rental company that have blamed you. You can claim you weren't driving but you're responsible. Unless you can tell the court who was driving when you had responsibility for the car you still get the fine.


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## Troz (Jan 29, 2018)

Well, @denz1968 , whether people on here approve of your proposed course of action or not, and whatever we think of your chances of success, I'm sure we would all like to know how you get on! 

And your experiences may help inform people who find themselves in the same situation in future, which is of course why you yourself came on here and posted. 

So please come back on in due course and tell us what happened.


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