# Fifty years of progress



## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

Here are two excerpts from the Wikipedia article "Ugly American":

_The Encarta dictionary defines "Ugly American" as: stereotypical offensive American: a loud, boorish, nationalistic American, especially one traveling abroad, who is regarded as conforming to a stereotype that gives Americans a bad reputation.[12] In contrast, Dictionary.com defines "the Ugly American" as: Pejorative term for Americans traveling or living abroad who remain ignorant of local culture and judge everything by American standards.[13]

In the book [the 1958 novel by William Lederer and Eugene Burdick], a fictional Burmese journalist wrote, "For some reason, the people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They're loud and ostentatious. Perhaps they're frightened and defensive, or maybe they're not properly trained and make mistakes out of ignorance."[38]_


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

I try to avoid all Americans where ever I go in the world. If my wife and I hear an American accent, we only whisper to each other so they won't know we are from the states.

Since their are so few Americans that actually have passports and there are so any wonderful places to visit inside the USA we just don't get normal Americans abroad.


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## KhwaamLap (Feb 29, 2008)

The Americans' have the "Ugly American" and the Brits have the "Larger Lout" and "Football Hooligan". We all have sectors of our societies we are not proud of, that make us cringe and want to pretend we're not from the same country, but democracy and national wealth (consumerism) breed differences: differences of class, education, outlook, bigotry and just about everything else. 

American's should consider themselves lucky in that because pretty much every climate can be found somewhere in the USA, as Cobragb said, at least you don't export so many. In Britain, thanks to an overly generous benefits system, and cheap flight, we still manage to export even the gutter trash. Once upon a time it was Greece and Spain that took this brunt, now we get them here (in Thailand) too, in ever greater numbers. Brits always had a pretty good reputation here as a whole, but the "kee nok" generation is pushing it deeper into the mire. Its just lucky most Thais think those Brits are American's too  (sorry!)


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## Mr. Soap (Feb 6, 2010)

*kee nok*



> = Brits always had a pretty good reputation here as a whole, but the "kee nok" generation is pushing it deeper into the mire. Its just lucky most Thais think those Brits are American's too  (sorry!)


5 5 5 (ha ha ha) We do think Brits are American unless you look like Mr. Bean or P. C. or start calling a truck a lorry, and using the word ‘bloody’. (I love the U.K. too, we had a great time driving a Vauxhall around. I’ve never seen a Vauxhall anywhere else.)

For some new expats who may not know “Farang eats farang” can happen in Thailand.
Being called a farang kee-nok by some is not so bad and not a dreaded curse of anything. Khi-Niow (stingy) is a harder sounding I think.

A farang kee-nok usually represents an inferior quality farang. (Just like the guava) 

“Tom, can you climb the tree and get that yellow mango?” (10 feet up)
“ A piece of cake” Tom climbed 3 feet up and fell on his behind.
“ตาย แล้ว ฝรั่ง ขี้ นก” = reading “Tai laew, farang kee-nok”
= meaning “Oh oh, bird-dropping guava”
Or literally translated “Dead! Bird-poop guava” 
The loving insult comes before asking if Tom is okay. It can be kind of an endearing term too.
Mrs. สบู่


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## hydroman (Feb 21, 2010)

I am british and ashamed at some of the things i see here from british people its not good but the worst are the italians come here think they are above every body. Not 3 days ago i was in samui checking in to a lovely hotel myselve wife and 5 month baby two people walk in we are already demand that they can stay for 400 bht per night shout a lot in italian as the staft tell them that they are checking us in (this hotel is 5*) German people here are the best they change in spain you don't need to meet them but here always polite next come the US keep them selves to the selves except 1 i call him James bond long story but not a nice man, never had a problem with the french but for sure the best are the thais always have a smile for you


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

*It's not always easy being worse*



hydroman said:


> the worst are the italians come here think they are above every body.


It’s always risky to make broad generalizations about any group of people. The most obnoxious tourist I saw in Asia happened to be German, but I only know that because the girl I was with and her sister knew him from previous encounters and called him German. He spoke in English, as did many tourists in the Philippines. His features could as easily have been Anglo-Saxon as Teutonic. If I had not been told he was German, I might have assumed he was English or from the States. 

I don’t like the term _American_, as it’s vague and ambiguous. What’s an American? In one sense, Mexicans, Canadians, Peruvians, Argentineans, Jamaicans, Haitians, and others are also Americans, as their nations are part of North America or South America. What gives citizens of the United States the right to pre-empt others in this hemisphere from also claiming the term? 

But even forgetting those other nations, which we usually do anyway, what is an American? Is it a Native American, the indigenous Aleuts, Polynesians and American Indians who populated Alaska, Hawaii and the former colonies? If we define American as a citizen, we would have to include those pesky Puerto Ricans, and that simply wouldn’t do. And what do we do about those Creoles who talk funny? Limiting the term to descendants of the original pilgrims has a philosophical allure, but that would be a relatively small group. 

Many Americans consider themselves hyphenates: Afro-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Polish-Americans, Asian-Americans, etc. I consider myself Italian-American, even though I am only half Italian, third generation and know fewer words in Italian than in Japanese. Most nations are defined by a relatively homogenous group with shared ethnicity, language, culture and religion. In some countries there may be two or three distinct groups who are often trying to kill one another. But Americans are not so easily pigeonholed. The same could probably be said for many other nations.

I am a bit disconcerted when somebody at the Thai Cultural Center tries to point out a cultural difference by calling me an American. I ask, “What do you mean, American? You’re an American also.” But for most of us, American is a political distinction, not a cultural, ethnic or religious distinction. 

I haven’t noticed many of the posts mentioning Japanese or Korean tourists.


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## PaulJ (Feb 24, 2010)

Making broad 'generalisatons' is bad form of course.
But Americans are typically loud people in public places. This makes me want to avoid them at all costs. Paticularly when they have the ability to embarrass me infront of people I am trying to impress with my typically British demeanor.
They are second only to the British, whom I try to avoid even in Britain.
There's nothing like a good old brit getting drunk and farting down the mic at a karaoke night.
I think I just dislike people.


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

You are absolutely correct Gino. We have no right to call ourselves American outside the USA. I think people from the United States are incapable of describing what it is to be an American. As you so eloquently describe, we have no right to call ourselves original Americans unless we were raised on a reservation.


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## KhwaamLap (Feb 29, 2008)

In the UK Asian mean Indian. There is BBC Asia (Indian music, news and chat), Asia supermarkets (Indian food), Asian everything and all related to India. Other countries in Asia are called by the country, but we almost never hear Indian radio, but Asian radio etc. Really used to get my goat - China is a fairly big lump of Asia, as is Russia, but in the UK Asian means Indian.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Making broad 'generalisatons' is bad form of course. but it is something that I would guess that we have all done from time to time lets face it there must be a reason why we generalise.
I'm a Scot and we have a reputation for liking a drink... and we do.
Americans are loud..... Yes they are as it doesn't matter where you are in the bar you can share an Americans conversation with the guy who is sitting inches away from him.
I owned a hotel many many moons ago and as a hotelier the staff and myself would be able to tell who would tip, who would complain, who would take all the fruit out of the breakfast room to save buy lunch, who would sit in the bar with a bottle of water all evening.
All based on nationality and we were very rarely wrong.


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

*Racial profiling*



MaidenScotland said:


> Making broad 'generalisatons' is bad form of course. but it is something that I would guess that we have all done from time to time lets face it there must be a reason why we generalise.
> I'm a Scot and we have a reputation for liking a drink... and we do.
> Americans are loud..... Yes they are as it doesn't matter where you are in the bar you can share an Americans conversation with the guy who is sitting inches away from him.
> I owned a hotel many many moons ago and as a hotelier the staff and myself would be able to tell who would tip, who would complain, who would take all the fruit out of the breakfast room to save buy lunch, who would sit in the bar with a bottle of water all evening.
> All based on nationality and we were very rarely wrong.



There is an interesting scene in _Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story _where Bruce Lee (Jason Scott Lee) attends the screening of some Marilyn Monroe film (sorry, before my time, possibly _The Seven Year Itch_) where she encounters a Chinese-American. The character is a caricature of Chinese-Americans, with sloped shoulders, thick glasses and an exaggerated accent. Jason Scott Lee is a big, muscular guy who, in typical Hollywood style, doesn’t look at all like Bruce Lee and doesn’t look very Chinese either, although his he definitely has the moves to play the role. This big, muscular, supremely self-confident guy is shown sitting alone in the theater, crying when he sees how Chinese are depicted on film by the country of which he wants to be a part.


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

*Uk 1, usa 0*



KhwaamLap said:


> The Americans' have the "Ugly American" and the Brits have the "Larger Lout" and "Football Hooligan".





The Larger Louts trounced the Ugly Americans last night in Bangkok.

I came back to my hotel last night to find the receptionist, a tiny thing who can’t weigh more than about forty kilos a bit stressed out. Seems a guest had chewed her out over the phone. I think the guests arrived late with a couple of exhausted kids and found the hotel had not yet set up the extra bed they had requested because they were too cheap to rent adjoining rooms. 

This morning I encountered what I’m sure is the family. (There aren’t many guests as it’s the off-season and the red shirts have put a further dent in tourism.) I can’t believe they have two children. I can understand some poor fool getting that drunk once, but not twice. Loud, obnoxious, cheap. The husband was a bit milquetoast, but the wife made special demands on the wait staff in a voice loud enough to be heard two doors down the street. I was tempted to stand up and shout, “ผมมาจากสหรัฐอเมริกา,” or sing _The Star Spangled Banner_, but my voice would have been drowned out for sure. Waiting for the lift, I could hear her admonishing her children through the elevator shaft two floors away. 

I’m hardly perfect. If somebody is really obnoxious or insensitive or presumptuous, I can get my dander up and hit them below the belt with some biting sarcasm. But Thais almost universally are so polite, I can’t imagine raising my voice. 

But the encounter reminded me of a joke about expats:

Three guys were having a beer in a bar in London. They were all relative newly-weds and they were talking about their wives. 

The first man said he'd married a woman from India. He told her that she was to do the dishes and house cleaning. It took a couple of days, but on the third day, he came home to see a clean house and dishes washed and put away. 

The second man had married a woman from the Philippines. He gave his wife orders that she was to do all the cleaning, dishes and the cooking. The first day he didn't see any results, but the next day he saw it was better. By the third day, he saw that his house was clean, the dishes were done and there was a huge dinner on the table. 

The third man married a girl from London. He ordered her to keep the house cleaned, dishes washed, lawn mowed, laundry washed, and hot food on the table for every meal. He said that the first day he didn't see anything, the second day he didn't see anything but by the third day, some of the swelling had gone down and he could see a little out of his left eye, and his arm was healed enough that he could fix himself a sandwich and load the dishwasher. He still has some difficulty when he pees.


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## Serendipity2 (Feb 22, 2009)

I don’t like the term _American_, as it’s vague and ambiguous. What’s an American? In one sense, Mexicans, Canadians, Peruvians, Argentineans, Jamaicans, Haitians, and others are also Americans, as their nations are part of North America or South America. What gives citizens of the United States the right to pre-empt others in this hemisphere from also claiming the term? 



With all due respect it isn't vague or ambiguous!

"American" means [to virtually everyone] someone from the United States of America. Were they to add "North" as in "North America" then you would be correct. Only those from the United States of America refer to their country as "America" and themselves as "American". Mexicans call their country Mexico and Canadians call theirs Canada. Are both in North America? Of course, along with Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Belize, Honduras and Guatemala to name the others. Without exception those citizens refer to themselves by the country they live in but would also be correct to say they are North Americans - but NO nation other than the United States of America refers to themselves as American.

As for "preempting" the word "America", nonsense. The naming of seven continents that make up this world is a fairly recent phenomenon. North and South America are first used in 1507 by Martin Waldseemüller when he published a world map, Universalis Cosmographia. As for names, the Spanish grabbed the name "Mexico", the French or British named our neighbor to the north, "Canada" and the United States grabbed "America" first. So they can all correctly say they're from North America but they are not Americans - without the "north" added. 

Everyone knows "American" is a shorthand or slang for someone that is a legal [NOT illegal] citizen of the United States of America, regardless if they were born here or not. The same would hold true of South America but not the island nations - they are not a part of the North American or South American continent. I'm an American. I was born in the United States of America but I would also be an "American" if I had legally immigrate to the United States. Illegals are not Americans. They are illegal invaders here against the laws of the United States which our government refuses to enforce but they are still not Americans. 

Like most, I try to avoid the stereotypical "Ugly American" when I travel but the overwhelming number of Americans are good, decent and generous people. [I do not hold that same lofty opinion of our corrupt government] That said, many Americans who travel think they should be catered to simply because they ARE American. I disagree with their notion. They are usually the wealthier or kids from wealthier families on their "World Tour" and think the world owes them. It doesn't. When I'm traveling I rarely seek out other foreigners - American or others. I'm not there for that reason. I'm there to experience the country I'm in and try to gain from that experience. Anyway, great discussion so I thought I would drop an oar in! 

Serendipity2


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

Serendipity2 said:


> Illegals are not Americans. They are illegal invaders here against the laws of the United States which our government refuses to enforce but they are still not Americans.


_America_ can refer to the United States of America or to the Americas, the continents of North America and South America and various Caribbean islands. 

I think Martin Waldseemüller applied the name America to both continents. Judging from his map, South America was believed to be considerably larger than North America, although it’s actually smaller. 

I wonder if the true illegal invaders are not undocumented emigrants, but ugly people. Think about it. There are no ugly babies or children (with rare exceptions, such as those with Downs syndrome and **********). Even Lakshmi Tatma, the Indian girl born recently with a parasitic twin (eight limbs) was considered cute and revered as a goddess by the villagers. But there are a lot of ugly adults. From where do ugly adults come? 

Perhaps ugly people are illegal aliens from outer space sent here to inhabit the bodies of beautiful children and listen and learn while awaiting orders from some distant galaxy to launch some nefarious plot for world domination. 

The next time you see a truly ugly person, ask them where their home is. If they look up, you’ll know why.


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## Serendipity2 (Feb 22, 2009)

"America" can refer to either or both continents but a person from any country other than the United States of America would not be considered an "American". He/she would be from whatever country they are from. No Mexican and no Canadian, for example would ever call themselves an American but they could say they're from North America. 

That said, if they referred to themselves as a North American or a South American that would be correct but convention is that only those who inhabit or are residents of the United States would be called American. No Caribbean island is a part of either continent so, again, convention would not call them American, North American or South America unless they were a part of a specific North or South American country. See all the trouble that Italian Amerigo Vespucci caused. And he didn't even know it! 

Serendipity2


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

*Who says?*



Serendipity2 said:


> No Mexican and no Canadian, for example would ever call themselves an American but they could say they're from North America.




Is this based on some empirical evidence? Has somebody conducted interviews of a large enough sample of Mexicans and Canadians to determine the validity of such an assertion? Or is it based on wistful xenophobic nationalistic sentiments that America is for Americans who fit a particular definition of _American_? 

Many of the undocumented emigrants in the States consider themselves Americans. Many consider themselves Californians. 

Many terms have evolved in meaning. While I’m not scholar of history, I suspect when our founding fathers declared that all men are created equal, they meant all Caucasians. When they professed a desire for religious freedom, they really meant you could be any type of Protestant you wanted to be. And cruel and inhuman punishment referred to such practices as being hung, drawn and quartered, not to being pricked a few extra times with a needle by some inept anesthesiologist or phlebotomist searching for a blood vessel. 

I’m sure many people who favor more restrictive immigration reforms also favor a more restrictive definition of _American_, but I’m not sure the same could be said of those on the other side of the debate. 

As far as I’m concerned, American immigration policy took a nosedive in February 1973 when Chairman Mao met with Henry Kissinger and proposed sending ten million Chinese women to the United States and Kissinger failed to jump on the idea. I think Clinton should sit down with Hu and see if we can’t get this proposal back on track. Forget about dysprosium and terbium. Send us Shu Qi, Li Man and Zhang Ziyi.


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## Guest (May 3, 2010)

A revolutionary ancestor of mine had the dubious distinction of being one of the last people to be hung, drawn and quartered in England, fortunately not before he had fathered a few offspring. As you suggest, I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference in terms of cruel and inhuman punishment with the likes of the electric chair. 

One of my first girlfriends at the age of 16 was half-Chinese, and from my memories of that relationship, I would have been absolutely delighted had they decided to send a million or so more to the UK back in the 70s.


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## Mr. Soap (Feb 6, 2010)

*Liu Yifei*

Khun Gino, that joke is really funny (though a bit brutal to the man). If a Thai wife dared to yell back or questioned the husband’s authority the husband might say the old Thai saying เดี๋ยว โดน เอาซี่โครง เหน็บ ข้างฝา หรอก. Most Thai women have heard this saying but usually in jest. It means ‘watch out or I will stuff your ribs to the (crack of the) wall.’ What a cruel threat to us little things! Possibly hence most Thai girls are meek and subservient too. (Sigh again)

Since you are willing to forget the vital part of green energy, dysprosium and terbium (thanks for the vocabs) for the girls, don’t leave out Liu Yifei in the group. The Thais went nuts over this girl a few years back in the TV series shown dubbed Thai on channel 3. The TV series is an adaptation of Louis Cha's novel The Return of the Condor Heroes. It is the second installment of a trilogy produced by Zhang Jizhong, preceded by The Legend of the Condor Heroes or มังกรหยก (2003) and followed by The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber (2009). I haven’t seen the remake of the last one yet. The first one has been remade quite a few times. It was one of the first few Chinese series that had invaded Thai TV world and gripped the nation for a couple of hours every week for awhile in the late 70s, I believe. The very first one was produced almost entirely in the studio in Hong Kong with fake trees and mountains etc. but now they have fantastic on location scenes in mainland China, making them even more addictive. Shu Qi must be the girl in the movie The Transporter, I looked up her image on the web. I love both guys in that movie, the transporter and the French cop.

Mrs. Soap


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## Serendipity2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Empirical evidence, ginocox? Surely you jest. 

The only people I've ever met that think an illegal here in America IS an American are those same illegals - and liberals. They are Mexicans [mostly] and they bring their misery and drugs with them. We have about 30 million illegals in this country, not all Mexicans, but most are. They cost us over $10,000 per person per year. Do the math - that's $300 BILLION that WE pay for these "Americans". That's $1000 per man, woman and child. That isn't the only cost either. Everyone with insurance has to have un-insured and under-insured coverage since virtually NONE of the Mexicans bother with insurance and I'm sure homeowner's insurance is higher too due to burglaries. Those are just a few of the problems they cause. Class overcrowding, anchor babies, babies that now live in Mexico that receive Social Security because they were born here - but not of an American father. They come across the border pregnant, have the baby, register it as being born here then head back to old Mexico and get monthly checks. Why? The answer is corrupt politicians and liberal hacks who run our government. 

I've never met one Canadian or one Mexican who think of themselves as other than Canadian or Mexican - except illegals. And, no, it's not based on "wistful xenophobic nationalistic sentiments" but the fact that they are proud to be what they are. Our liberals, apparently aren't proud to be what they are so they, like President Barack Hussein Obama, denigrate his own country. Those illegals who think of themselves as Californians sure do like to celebrate May day [Communists? International Workers of the World?] and love flying not the American flag which gives them the freedoms they enjoy but the Mexican flag instead. Sorry, NOT impressed with these phony "Americans" nor are the majority here in the United States. They are unwelcome invaders and most of us want them gone.

The opening of the United States Declaration of Independence, written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776, states as follows:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;" 

I don't think he was discussing Mexicans or Canadians in our Declaration of Independence nor was there any discussion of a religious preference and I'm sure we had more than Protestants at the time. Do you have a problem with Protestants? Perhaps I missed it but I didn't see any mention of them in the Declaration of Independence or our Constitution. I'm sure there was a Jew or three and maybe even a Catholic somewhere. We know the Founding Fathers were, for the most part, Free Masons.

Being an American citizen is being born in the United States OR immigrating here. legally. It does NOT mean someone who is here illegally!  Every year we admit hundreds of thousand who do it the right way, jump through all the hoops and come here to help make this a better country. Then we have the illegals who sneak across the border. That's a federal crime. We don't have a problem with immigrants. We DO have a problem with illegals. Apparently you do not. Suffice to say you are in the minority - by a huge margin. 

As for Henry Kissinger, he should have been shot - right along with Allen Greenspan - for treason.


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## Guest (May 3, 2010)

Mr. Soap said:


> Khun Gino, that joke is really funny (though a bit brutal to the man). If a Thai wife dared to yell back or questioned the husband’s authority the husband might say the old Thai saying เดี๋ยว โดน เอาซี่โครง เหน็บ ข้างฝา หรอก. Most Thai women have heard this saying but usually in jest. It means ‘watch out or I will stuff your ribs to the (crack of the) wall.’ What a cruel threat to us little things! Possibly hence most Thai girls are meek and subservient too. (Sigh again)
> 
> Mrs. Soap


I am still having a hard time differentiating between the exaggerated stereotypes and the reality, with respect to relationships in Thailand. I have witnessed violence towards wives and girlfriends, usually when the Thai man is drunk, but this is hardly an unknown phenomenon in the West. Is there, in your opinion, a distinctly greater level of spousal violence in Thailand?


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## Guest (May 3, 2010)

Serendipity2 said:


> They are Mexicans [mostly] and they bring their misery and drugs with them. We have about 30 million illegals in this country, not all Mexicans, but most are.


I'm having a hard time imagining that all 30 million, or even most of them, are miserable drug addicts. 

I'm also trying to imagine what S2 would do, in circumstances of dire poverty, when there is the hope of being able to work, albeit illegally, across the border, and earn a little to support a family back home. Given the choice, I imagine many would take that option, even if it doesn't work out as hoped.

We have a worldwide economic and political system with built-in, often inflexible fault lines. The wealthy nations appeal for cheap labour from abroad to do our dirty work when there is growth and prosperity at home, then depict them as invading reprobates with no desire to work, simply there to sponge off the state, when times are hard. As for the 'illegals', these were tempted in originally because black market work was made available for them by the upstanding citizens (of whichever country, not just the US). These upstanding citizens were and remain delighted to make a quick buck from anyone prepared to work for below the going rate. 

It's a worldwide problem that has been exaggerated over time through the massive and increasing wealth differentials that exist between rich and poor nations. Sooner or later the whole house of cards is going to come crashing down.


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

*http://vn.lbvmt.net/images/061107/Liu-Yi-Fei-Luu-Diec-Phi-05.jpg*



Mr. Soap said:


> Khun Gino, that joke is really funny (though a bit brutal to the man). If a Thai wife dared to yell back or questioned the husband’s authority the husband might say the old Thai saying เดี๋ยว โดน เอาซี่โครง เหน็บ ข้างฝา หรอก. Most Thai women have heard this saying but usually in jest. It means ‘watch out or I will stuff your ribs to the (crack of the) wall.’ What a cruel threat to us little things! Possibly hence most Thai girls are meek and subservient too. (Sigh again)
> 
> Since you are willing to forget the vital part of green energy, dysprosium and terbium (thanks for the vocabs) for the girls, don’t leave out Liu Yifei in the group. The Thais went nuts over this girl a few years back in the TV series shown dubbed Thai on channel 3. The TV series is an adaptation of Louis Cha's novel The Return of the Condor Heroes. It is the second installment of a trilogy produced by Zhang Jizhong, preceded by The Legend of the Condor Heroes or มังกรหยก (2003) and followed by The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber (2009). I haven’t seen the remake of the last one yet. The first one has been remade quite a few times. It was one of the first few Chinese series that had invaded Thai TV world and gripped the nation for a couple of hours every week for awhile in the late 70s, I believe. The very first one was produced almost entirely in the studio in Hong Kong with fake trees and mountains etc. but now they have fantastic on location scenes in mainland China, making them even more addictive. Shu Qi must be the girl in the movie The Transporter, I looked up her image on the web. I love both guys in that movie, the transporter and the French cop.
> 
> Mrs. Soap




Yes, Liu Yi Fei is gorgeous. She was also in _The Forbidden Kingdom_ with Jackie Chan and Jet Li. Although it would be a bit time consuming, I'm sure I would have very little trouble finding the names of ten million attractive Chinese ladies. Getting their phone numbers could take a little more work. 

Shu Qi has been in a lot of films. She starred in _So Close_, which is the film that inspired my passion for Hong Kong cinema. It's not a great film. The plot is a bit ridiculous, but I was fascinated by the way the filmmakers blended elements of different genres and blown away to find this was not a great HK film, although it puts many Hollywood films to shame in a number of ways. I have just about every film that Shu Qi has made, including a couple of obscure titles from her early days. 

I like Jason Stratham. His films are typically crowd pleasers that are unlikely to win Academy Awards, but he is an action entertainer, like Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Daniel Craig and Tony Jaa, all of whom do most (if not all) of their own stunts, as do Shu Qi and Zhang Ziyi. Compare their work in _So Close_ and _The House of Flying Daggers_ to some of the lame action sequences in _Charlie's Angels_ and _Electra_. 

For those who haven't been watching the news, dysprosium and terbium are two rare earth elements used in the manufacture of solar energy panels and batteries for electric cars. China controls most of these materials. 

But meek and submissive are not desirable qualities in women, except possibly to misogynistic louts. I would prefer to think Thai girls are attractive from the grace and agility attained through training in traditional dance from an early age and from the social graces and etiquette learned from a traditional upbringing.


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## gino (Jul 20, 2009)

Serendipity2 said:


> The only people I've ever met that think an illegal here in America IS an American are those same illegals - and liberals.


You are missing the point and overreacting. 

Yes, many undocumented emigrants in the States consider themselves part of American society, although I'm sure they are acutely aware that they don't have many privileges and duties associated with citizenship and live with the concern that they might one day be deported. 

But I also think that many people in Latin American countries, particularly those formerly under the rule of Spain or another European nation, which struggled for independence, often through armed conflict, now consider themselves American in the sense of being part of South America, Central America or even North America. Particularly when negotiating with the States over NAFTA or some other legislation, I suspect they are more likely to stress elements of commonality, such as sharing patches of land in the new world. 

And I suspect many native Americans are as cynical of your claim to a patch of land in Idaho or wherever it is you live as you are of some of the rights asserted by undocumented immigrants. But I expect if one were to go back far enough in their history, you'd find many of the Indian tribes got their land by killing off other Indians or peace-loving farmers from Asia.


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## Serendipity2 (Feb 22, 2009)

frogblogger said:


> I am still having a hard time differentiating between the exaggerated stereotypes and the reality, with respect to relationships in Thailand. I have witnessed violence towards wives and girlfriends, usually when the Thai man is drunk, but this is hardly an unknown phenomenon in the West. Is there, in your opinion, a distinctly greater level of spousal violence in Thailand?



frogblogger,

Maybe that's why at least some Thai women prefer marrying a farang rather than marrying a Thai? I'm sure there's an economic component in there as well for those few who do marry a farang but that's true the world over. Can't say that I blame them - it's easy to marry poor but poverty sucks!


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## Armysig (Apr 28, 2010)

Well said S2


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## Armysig (Apr 28, 2010)

I know this is an older post, but I thought I would wiegh in anyway. I have done a considerable amount of traveling, although most has been with the military and not vacationing, still I've worked and lived with people from quite a few countries. I find alot of the Americans or people from the United States I have met, are almost self-conscious about this loud American stigmatism and I don't know why. In most of the places I have been, Canada makes up the lesser part of the contingent behind the Americans and the British. Because of this, I have interacted with more people from those two countries than most others. The more peolpe you meet from the same country, you are going to meet a larger number of people you don't necessarly like however, you tend to forget about the people you meet that were very nice even if only for a brief moment. You could meet 50 Americans in a day, 49 of them would hold the door for you or say hello ect but 1 was loud, drunk, obnoxious ect, that's the guy you're going to remember.
In all, I've enjoyed working with my American and British counterparts, and would'nt think twiced about joining either nationality for a drink while on vacation. I have niebours on my street here in Canada you would fit the description of "Ugly American" quite well and we are niether on vacation or in the U.S. Every contry has them.


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

ginocox said:


> There are no ugly babies or children (with rare exceptions, such as those with Downs syndrome and **********).


Are you for real? No doubt these children are beautiful to their parents and others - what an offensive statement!


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