# King's Father flees Spain



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Wow. King's father has fled Spain. Destination unknown. Huge news!!!!


----------



## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Dominican Republic according to the Daily Mail.....so could be anywhere really...


----------



## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Personally I think he´s in Benidorm


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

He had become an embarrassment to Spain but clearly the old guard felt he was untouchable. Hope they keep up the investigations and expose more of these people. It's a good way of diminishing the power of the right plus its karma for shooting elephants!!!


----------



## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

It´s his long suffering wife I feel sorry for.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Catalunya22 said:


> It´s his long suffering wife I feel sorry for.


I agree. She cant divorce him really but it must be do embarrassing with all his mistresses


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

He wins all round. He's leaving Spain but with all our money stuffed down the front of his trousers!!!
Many older people have a soft spot for him as he took over from a dictator and took the country on a different route. Then he saw off a coup, but in my time in Spain he's always been known for liking the good life, often spotted dining out in Madrid and in the company of women. He was often described as "campechano", one of the lads, a good bloke. Wonder if that will still be used to describe him.
Notice the former queen, Sofia, is not named as taking part in the various scandals that have come up rover the years. I reckon she could dish up a lot of dirt on him if things got to that stage. As soon as he abdicated their already separate lives became even more separate and she already lives abroad I think, at one time in London. She just comes back for the family.
Still he had him moments like "¿porqué no te callas? To Chavez in an IberoAmerican meeting:tongue::lol::lol:


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I agree. She cant divorce him really but it must be do embarrassing with all his mistresses


Was an arranged marriage.


----------



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Catalunya22 said:


> Personally I think he´s in Benidorm


Or maybe the last place you would expect him to go, Scarborough.


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Will he be teaming up with Puigdemont? 

That must be the question on everyone's lips...


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

With the cash and properties he has accumulated, I'm amazed he stayed so long anyway, it's almost like he was seeing how long it would take to get to this point.

Good riddance to the old fool.

I just hope that Valtonyc's official pardon is in the post...


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

He's shacked up with Elvis in a townhouse just down from Benidorm Palace 😉

Steve


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Very pally with the Saudi's who are also mixed up in the money. I'm sure he'll not want for anything.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

At least they wont have to fork out for a state burial sometime in future. In truth this is what happens when you fail to deal with the past. Sure JC was a figurehead and mover of democracy after Franco but it came with very sacrifice for him. Others also were happy with the move provided their fortunes were protected and their crimes forgotten. Unfortunately the proceeding decades meant a kind of untouchable elite circled around political power making sure it kept its nose out of their business. JC was one of these guys. Greed, machismo personas, the pursuit of pleasure, all with a sense of enlightenment and a feeling of privilege. Well I for one hope he rots away with his bank notes in some lonely foreigner country ostracized by his family and country and this is the final scene of this 40 year history


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

He's fled the country to avoid justice, like a common criminal. Sofia will be fine, they haven't done anything together for years apart from family photo opportunities, and now she won't have to force a smile and endure those either.

He's probably gone to Switzerland, not so far to walk to the bank.


----------



## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Not born in Spain and probably won´t die in Spain.
Queen Sofia on the other hand...she has CLASS.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> He's fled the country to avoid justice, like a common criminal. Sofia will be fine, they haven't done anything together for years apart from family photo opportunities, and now she won't have to force a smile and endure those either.
> 
> He's probably gone to Switzerland, not so far to walk to the bank.


Yes doesn't La Infanta live in Switzerland with her husband and they basically do so as they are also accused of corruption ( maybe her husband was sentenced in absence , I cant remember) Anyway that's where , as you say lots of the money is. And here is us getting fined thousands if we so much as get a date wrong on our 720s!!!


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I saw an article a few years ago which claimed the King had dementia. Was accompanied by a video where he didn’t recognise an old friend. 
He was useful during the transition period but should have been reined in afterwards.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It suppose for us guiris it's not a big thing but for the Spanish it is. It is a dark stain on their image of a country that prided itself in change. The fact also that he in no way apologised for his behaviour has brought huge shame on the populace as it implies no guilt and that rules exist for many but not all.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> It suppose for us guiris it's not a big thing but for the Spanish it is. It is a dark stain on their image of a country that prided itself in change. The fact also that he in no way apologised for his behaviour has brought huge shame on the populace as it implies no guilt and that rules exist for many but not all.


You'd think so, but my Facebook feed this morning contains a surprising number of comments thanking him for doing such a great job and wishing him a happy retirement! 

The idea that he championed Spain's transition to a democracy is very prevalent, despite the fact that he actually changed very little when he first came to the throne, leaving most of the fascist infrastructure in place. It was pressure from overseas and political organisations within Spain that led to him eventually agreeing to modernise.

The CIS (official opinion poll) last asked people their opinion on the monarchy in 2015, just after he abdicated. There was a majority in favour of retaining it. I wonder what the result would be now.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> It suppose for us guiris it's not a big thing but for the Spanish it is. It is a dark stain on their image of a country that prided itself in change. The fact also that he in no way apologised for his behaviour has brought huge shame on the populace as it implies no guilt and that rules exist for many but not all.


I suppose at least he has the decency to distance himself, albeit it implies guilt.


Prince Andrew however...


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > It suppose for us guiris it's not a big thing but for the Spanish it is. It is a dark stain on their image of a country that prided itself in change. The fact also that he in no way apologised for his behaviour has brought huge shame on the populace as it implies no guilt and that rules exist for many but not all.
> ...


I suppose the difference is Juan Calos' actions have been pretty much substantiated as fact whereas Prince Andrews' remain allegations unsubstantiated ( unless you subscribe to the validity of the court of public opnion)


----------



## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

I saw an interesting French media piece on this this morning, and I think most would be very surprised at what it says.

Here it is, it is a real eye opener - if you don't speak/read French, use your transaltion app 

https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/geopolitique/geopolitique-04-aout-2020?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1V5ZbvUOtga6i968U1emflqCWfaMlcN8iTQ9RPbWymNz11cJgfgV1orRg#Echobox=1596523262


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

It is a big step that the family are being openly criticised. I remember one critical article in one of the national newspapers was confiscated from outlets.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> I saw an interesting French media piece on this this morning, and I think most would be very surprised at what it says.
> 
> Here it is, it is a real eye opener - if you don't speak/read French, use your transaltion app
> 
> https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/geopolitique/geopolitique-04-aout-2020?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1V5ZbvUOtga6i968U1emflqCWfaMlcN8iTQ9RPbWymNz11cJgfgV1orRg#Echobox=1596523262


Interesting but not an eye-opener for me, most of this is echoed in the Spanish left-wing media like Publico.
https://www.publico.es/politica/hui...bra-anos-escandalos-millonarios-ingresos.html


----------



## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting but not an eye-opener for me, most of this is echoed in the Spanish left-wing media like Publico.
> https://www.publico.es/politica/hui...bra-anos-escandalos-millonarios-ingresos.html


I was really surprised that he had been formally representing Spain abroad and have to wonder whether he might do so again.

From the comments on this thread, though, it seems to me that many don't understand the way the democratic monarchy works in Spain, it is as if it were unviolable.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> Wow. King's father has fled Spain. Destination unknown. Huge news!!!!


Couldn't give a toss. Won't put more money in my pocket. I also doubt 'fled' is the word. Conjures up images of Louis and Marie Antoinette trying to escape in their carriage....in their case to no avail and we know what happened to them.

In the case of Rey Emeritus Juan Carlos it's more likely he made a leisurely departure with tons of dosh stashed away, loads of luggage and by private jet or First Class cabin on a commercial flight

But unimportant as such things are in the global scale of rascalry at least it's a fresh topic and not another seemingly endless regurgitation of posts about this ****ing virus..


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Catalunya22 said:


> Not born in Spain and probably won´t die in Spain.
> Queen Sofia on the other hand...she has CLASS.


Shame about her Nazi inclined parents though. I remembering demonstrating against her mother Queen Frederika when she visited London in the 1960s.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Shame about her Nazi inclined parents though. I remembering demonstrating against her mother Queen Frederika when she visited London in the 1960s.


Isn't she descended from Queen Victoria, therefore related to Elizabeth II? how far back does this tainted bloodline go?


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. King's father has fled Spain. Destination unknown. Huge news!!!!
> ...


I think fled is the word. He certainly has gone and it was not via any convoy of royal vehicles under the eye of the public media. Dont think any need to stuff money down his trousers as the whole point of the recent news stories is the money is not in Spain. It does make a change to talking about Covid 19 though!!


----------



## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

How did he get away with it for so long. I think the whole regime had to be dragged kicking and screaming to democracy after they joined the EU. The Guardia Civil were behaving as if nothing had changed for years after Franco's death


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

fortrose52 said:


> How did he get away with it for so long. I think the whole regime had to be dragged kicking and screaming to democracy after they joined the EU. The Guardia Civil were behaving as if nothing had changed for years after Franco's death


The royal family get away with these things because they believe themselves to be above the law. One of the legacies of the dictatorship was that the institutions of the state - the judiciary, the military, the Catholic church, the Guardia Civil etc - protected the interests of the ruling class. They still do. Look at Udangarin and Infanta Cristina, the ex King's daughter; a slap on the wrist for him, total exoneration for her. Yet they were both as bent as the proverbial three bob note. Look at all the corrupt politicians and bankers; a token prison sentence to pacify the masses, and they're back home in a few weeks. 

You might be right about joining the EU (1896) being a force for change. But given the level of corruption that still exists in this country I don't think it made that much difference.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Isn't she descended from Queen Victoria, therefore related to Elizabeth II? how far back does this tainted bloodline go?


Don't know about her but I think DC 'S father's mother was a great granddaughter of Victoria. She must be related to Prince Philip, though. He has close relatives who wee SS officers. Some of his close relatives were discretely excluded from his wedding ceremony.
Too close after the war for comfort.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> I saw an interesting French media piece on this this morning, and I think most would be very surprised at what it says.
> 
> Here it is, it is a real eye opener - if you don't speak/read French, use your transaltion app
> 
> https://www.franceinter.fr/emission...8iTQ9RPbWymNz11cJgfgV1orRg#Echobox=1596523262


 No, there is nothing new in there for the Spanish. His role or function was never hidden in any way; what did you think was surprising?





> From the comments on this thread, though, it seems to me that many don't understand the way the democratic monarchy works in Spain, it is as if it were unviolable.


According to the Spanish constitution the monarchy is unviolable and is something very much discussed in the news atm
https://www.rtve.es/television/20200804/rey-emerito-abandona-espana/2037200.shtml


----------



## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> But unimportant as such things are in the global scale of rascalry at least it's a fresh topic and not another seemingly endless regurgitation of posts about Brexit.


Fixed it for you.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Don't know about her but I think DC 'S father's mother was a great granddaughter of Victoria. She must be related to Prince Philip, though. He has close relatives who wee SS officers. Some of his close relatives were discretely excluded from his wedding ceremony.
> Too close after the war for comfort.


Extensive inbreeding plus inherited privilege - not an ideal qualification for ruling over the rest of us.


----------



## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Extensive inbreeding plus inherited privilege - not an ideal qualification for ruling over the rest of us.


All royals are extensively inbred.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Extensive inbreeding plus inherited privilege - not an ideal qualification for ruling over the rest of us.


They don't rule. They reign.

Example: In the UK Dominic Cummings rules over the citizens.

Queen Elizabeth reigns over her subjects.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> All royals are extensively inbred.


My point exactly.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It is becoming clearer why he's gone to the Dominican Republic. He's being investigated by the Swiss Prosecutor's office and the DR has no extradition treaty wih Switzerland.

https://diario16.com/el-rey-juan-ca...R2hCJe0tJY7Mhq2Lj5x3SngeWXOSZE1dYhanVuw1K7myw


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> It is becoming clearer why he's gone to the Dominican Republic. He's being investigated by the Swiss Prosecutor's office and the DR has no extradition treaty wih Switzerland.
> 
> https://diario16.com/el-rey-juan-ca...R2hCJe0tJY7Mhq2Lj5x3SngeWXOSZE1dYhanVuw1K7myw


Yes. On the news they say he went to Porgugal on Monday and is believed to have flown to DR from Portugal.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> They don't rule. They reign.
> 
> Example: In the UK Dominic Cummings rules over the citizens.
> 
> Queen Elizabeth reigns over her subjects.


Did you mean "*Demonic*" Cummings?


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> The royal family get away with these things because they believe themselves to be above the law. One of the legacies of the dictatorship was that the institutions of the state - the judiciary, the military, the Catholic church, the Guardia Civil etc - protected the interests of the ruling class. They still do. Look at Udangarin and Infanta Cristina, the ex King's daughter; a slap on the wrist for him, total exoneration for her. Yet they were both as bent as the proverbial three bob note. Look at all the corrupt politicians and bankers; a token prison sentence to pacify the masses, and they're back home in a few weeks.
> 
> You might be right about joining the EU (1896) being a force for change. But given the level of corruption that still exists in this country I don't think it made that much difference.


Corruption is also one of the legacies of dictatorships whether of the right or left. As is the legacy of mistrust due to the lack of civil society and its voluntary institutions.
As in Franco's Spain so in the Socialist People's Republics of Eastern Europe and of course the Soviet Union.
The interests of the former ruling class have also been protected and continued in these successor 'free' liberal states. The nomenklatura of the former SU, former Czechoslovakia, Poland, all enriched themselves with the people's assets when the previous regimes collapsed. The former managers of state-owned enterprises took them over and became Directors and got very very rich.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

They are now saying he didn't go to DR. President Pedro Sanchez claims he has no idea where he is, and is keeping quiet about his discussions with the King on the matter.

Apparently before he decided to leave he was given the option of regularising his tax affairs in Spain, declaring his overseas assets in full and paying what he owed, thereby avoiding prosecution for tax fraud. Nobody knows what he's worth, because he has never declared it, but in 2012 the New York Times estimated €2,000 million, taxable at 60%, plus the fines for telling fibs on his Modelo 720. But this was ruled out because it is currently beyond his means. (Imagine if that option were available to everyone...)

Source: https://www.eldiario.es/temas/juan-carlos-i/


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes it is his wealth that is at the focus of all this. Apparently he is paid 200.000 euros a year and therefore it is the fact that his estate is said to be so large that begs the question. Where did he get the money??


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> Yes it is his wealth that is at the focus of all this. Apparently he is paid 200.000 euros a year and therefore it is the fact that his estate is said to be so large that begs the question. Where did he get the money??


I think Felipe stopped his €200k pocket money last year so he's having to dip into his reserves now. 

The Swiss are currently investigating a $100m bung from the Saudis in 2008 relating to the contract to build a high-speed railway to Mecca. Undeclared and un-taxed. There will be many more examples coming to light I'm sure. He's immune from prosecution in Spain for any crimes committed before his abdication (2014) but that doesn't stop the Swiss going after him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53415781


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> They are now saying he didn't go to DR. President Pedro Sanchez claims he has no idea where he is, and is keeping quiet about his discussions with the King on the matter.
> 
> Apparently before he decided to leave he was given the option of regularising his tax affairs in Spain, declaring his overseas assets in full and paying what he owed, thereby avoiding prosecution for tax fraud. Nobody knows what he's worth, because he has never declared it, but in 2012 the New York Times estimated €2,000 million, taxable at 60%, plus the fines for telling fibs on his Modelo 720. But this was ruled out because it is currently beyond his means. (Imagine if that option were available to everyone...)
> 
> Source: https://www.eldiario.es/temas/juan-carlos-i/


According to this report he is living in the style he is accustomed to in Abu Dhabi:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...os-abu-dhabi-news-report-200807100852671.html


----------



## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

We should all be grateful to the Rey Emeritus for two reasons:

1. In the 1970's he led Spain out of a dictatorship to a constitutional monarchy and

2. In the 2020's, he is leading Spain out of a constitutional monarchy and into the Third Spanish Republic.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

timwip said:


> We should all be grateful to the Rey Emeritus for two reasons:
> 
> 1. In the 1970's he led Spain out of a dictatorship to a constitutional monarchy and
> 
> 2. In the 2020's, he is leading Spain out of a constitutional monarchy and into the Third Spanish Republic.


If only ... 

Interesting article by Ian Gibson yesterday about JC's failure to ever condemn the fascist regime. He even swore allegiance to it when he came to the throne. It was economic pressure that persuaded him to transition to democracy - Spain couldn't have joined the Common Market and become a modern trading nation otherwise.

https://www.eldiario.es/cultura/his...xU5R7q_Bk3mslWPpIpJL-64WZCn5X0MX243xD7kacaB4w


----------



## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Thanks for posting the interview with Mr. Gibson. Like Mr. Gibson, I believe that Spain is moving toward a Third Republic.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

timwip said:


> Thanks for posting the interview with Mr. Gibson. Like Mr. Gibson, I believe that Spain is moving toward a Third Republic.


I'd love to think so but there is still a lot of support for the monarchy and the old regime. Felipe has taken care to present himself as squeaky-clean, distancing himself from his father and other dubious relatives. I believe Juan Carlos Borbon will just be written off as a bad egg (albeit in a very long line of bad eggs) and if there were a referendum now people would vote for the status quo. Still, we can live in hope.


----------

