# Renounced US citizenship but my Spanish Bank is asking me to fill in forms for US person!



## Travis Black

I recently (finally) renounced my US citizenship for the American side (after having done it 15 years ago for the Spanish side after taking Spanish citizenship). I recently went to open a new account in a bank in Spain and was told that since I had: Born: US on the back of my National Identity Document (DNI) that I still needed to give them my old SS number or perhaps fill in the W9 or W8 BEN. I provided them with a copy of my Certificate of Loss of Nationality but was told that they still needed me to provide one of the forms (I don't think the agent was sure which one). I don't understand why I should need to supply anything other than my DNI and a copy of my certificate of loss of nationality. Why should I be treated differently than any other Spanish citizen? The agent agreed to try to explain the "special" circumstances to the FACTA department of the bank, but wasn't confident the loss of nationality certificate would be enough. I don't want to fill in any forms related to the US, the IRS or anything to do with FACTA. As a Spanish citizen with absolutely no obligations to the US I think this is unjustifiable and I really think I should not have to supply any information or sign any papers other than those any other Spanish citizen (i.e. my wife) would need to.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this post-renounced situation of trying to open a back account and still being hassled? Is there anything I can say to do to help the bank understand that I am no longer within the US system or FACTA or anything similar?

Thanks for your comments.


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## Bevdeforges

You should fill in a W8 BEN form and give it to the bank. The form simply states that you are NOT a "US person" (though you are asked to provide your US Social Security number on the form - up to you what you want to do on that). The form itself is retained by the bank - it specifically says on the form NOT to send it to the IRS or anyone else in the US. It's a "cover your ass" document for the bank.

The bank does have FATCA (think "fat cat" and then drop the T) obligations to consider. They are required to report information on any US persons with bank accounts over a certain balance, usually to the national bank authority (Bank of Spain, if there is such a thing) - and they are supposed to report anyone with "US indicia" like a US birthplace unless they have "proof" that the person has renounced or otherwise isn't considered a "US person" for purposes of the bank's FATCA reporting requirements. 

In theory, the IRS could audit the bank, and if they happened upon your account and noticed your US birthplace without the W8 BEN form explaining your status, the bank would lose all banking privileges in the US. In practice, it's next to impossible that the IRS will ever get around to auditing any foreign banks given that they are so far behind on auditing hard working US resident tax evaders - but this is the way the FATCA thing works.

So, net, net, give them the W8 BEN form (with or without your US SS number - though I think it appears on your CLN), along with a copy of your CLN to help them keep the IRS off their case and out of their hair. In some countries (like here in France), some banks are asking all their customers with "foreign backgrounds" to sign a form stating what countries they have tax obligations to. It's part of an EU regulation meant to guard against money laundering and tax evasion. They aren't hassling you - they are simply protecting their own posterior region.


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## Harry Moles

In this case you simply fill out the W8 BEN, show your CLN as proof of renunciation and that's the end of that. Problem solved. If the bank still demands the SSN, give it to them - it doesn't matter since nothing will be reported under FATCA. Due to the fact that you were born in the US, the bank has an obligation (under Spanish law) to determine and record whether or not you are a US person. In some cases banks will have their own forms to indicate foreign tax residency (for both FATCA and CRS purposes); in other cases banks will use the W9 and W8 BEN forms, which they keep on file, without submitting to the IRS.

If you refuse to sign a US government form on principle, fine, continue arguing with the bank. It's a strange hill to die on, but whatever. Best of luck to you.



Bevdeforges said:


> with or without your US SS number - though I think it appears on your CLN


An SS number does not appear on the CLN. You are not required to provide, or even possess, an SSN when you renounce.


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## Travis Black

Thanks for your replies!


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