# "Expats": Mind your word choice!



## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

This goes back to something I think Pesky Wesky said a while ago: 

Expatriate Games

Thoughts?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Interesting that the Japanese word for foreigners, _gaijin_, is almost the same as the gypsy word for non-Roma - _gadje_.

I hate the term expat, it sounds old-fashioned and colonial and I always refer to myself as an immigrant.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> This goes back to something I think Pesky Wesky said a while ago:
> 
> Expatriate Games
> 
> Thoughts?


interesting

I think of myself as an immigrant

I used to teach english in an academy - I was teaching a group of 8 & 9 year olds, and we were all introducing ourselves in an early lesson - I'm Ana, I'm from Spain, - I'm Bárbara I'm from Colombia, & so on

my younger daughter was in the same year at school as these kids, so I knew what they studying at the time, so I wasn't surprised when I heard them saying _inmigrante_

I said yes - I'm a immigrant

they didn't agree - as far as they were concerned I was European - so not an immigrant

the girl from Colombia was the immigrant, even though they had a language in common!!


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## wakawakawoo (Mar 28, 2011)

I am an Expat hence a member of an Expat forum !! An immigrant usually refers to a permanent relocation to a single country, hence most countries offer a resident visa or similar not a migrant visa unless you want citizenship.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

Do you call yourself an immigrant? 
How do you feel in the Oficina de Extranjeros?
How are you _treated_ in the Oficina de Extranjeros? 



I'm halydia, from the US. I'm came because of a teaching grant, and am staying (for now) because of a boy. I don't really call myself anything! Just a guiri.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting that the Japanese word for foreigners, _gaijin_, is almost the same as the gypsy word for non-Roma - _gadje_.
> 
> I hate the term expat, it sounds old-fashioned and colonial and I always refer to myself as an immigrant.


:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:
When Somalis, Poles etc. in the UK are routinely referred to as expats I'll use the term myself.
Until then, like you, I'm an immigrant.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

wakawakawoo said:


> I am an Expat hence a member of an Expat forum !! An immigrant usually refers to a permanent relocation to a single country, hence most countries offer a resident visa or similar not a migrant visa unless you want citizenship.


No it doesn't. It means merely that one has left one's native land, either temporarily or permanently. 
It is actually the word 'expatriate' that has transitory connotations.
Residence and citizenship refer to different legal statuses.
Most immigrants in the UK return to their native lands and have no right of permanent residence.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

halydia said:


> Do you call yourself an immigrant?
> How do you feel in the Oficina de Extranjeros?
> How are you _treated_ in the Oficina de Extranjeros?
> 
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Great article which covers almost everything I think, except perhaps that we should consider how we are classified by the country we are in. I'm pretty sure that politically speaking I, and probably you, are classified as an immigrant, like it or not. That means we are lumped in with Nigerians, Bolivians, Russians, Moroccans and even Germans. So, even if you want to refer to yourself as an expat, you are officially an immigrant.
I think sometimes a word just gets old; the world moves on and it doesn't. Frock comes to mind, motor car, you blighter(!!), salve -they sound old fashioned and out of place just like expat does to me.
Apart from that, there are all the other stereotypes that some still believe like expats are a cut above the others etc. I too would prefer expressions like temporary resident, short/ longterm visitor/ worker etc.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Great article which covers almost everything I think, except perhaps that we should consider how we are classified by the country we are in. I'm pretty sure that politically speaking I, and probably you, are classified as an immigrant, like it or not. That means we are lumped in with Nigerians, Bolivians, Russians, Moroccans and even Germans. So, even if you want to refer to yourself as an expat, you are officially an immigrant.
> I think sometimes a word just gets old; the world moves on and it doesn't. Frock comes to mind, motor car, you blighter(!!), salve -they sound old fashioned and out of place just like expat does to me.
> Apart from that, there are all the other stereotypes that some still believe like expats are a cut above the others etc. I too would prefer expressions like temporary resident, short/ longterm visitor/ worker etc.


yes......

I'm not sure if I'm temporary or permanent or longterm

for sure not short term - though what is that:confused2:

when does longterm begin??

this is my home - I don't go 'home' to the UK - if I'm forced by circumstance to go there I come home to Spain....

but I accept it might not be my forever home

my OH & I said to each other last night that we have (_separately_, oddly enough) decided that we intend to retire within 3 years - then travel _together_, so who knows where we'll end up??

YOU are longterm & pretty certainly permanent, having a Spanish hubby & daughter - though again, it's just possible that you will move to the UK..............or somewhere else..........


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Call me what you like, expat, immigrant, guiri, blondie........ They're all just words. I'll answer to anything lol

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> YOU are longterm & pretty certainly permanent, having a Spanish hubby & daughter - though again, it's just possible that you will move to the UK..............or somewhere else..........


Good grief, what are you trying to do to me! That sent a shiver down my spine!!
I have no intention of ever going back to the UK. I'm not saying that with pride or being supercilious (an old fashioned word?), or implying that people who _*do*_ want to live in the UK are losers, but think I personally would be deeply unhappy living there, especially in the way that I could afford to live. Also, if I remain married to the Spaniard who is my husband, it's out of the question.
Somewhere else?? Well that was always my plan, but The Husband pops up into view again. It's absolutely amazing that he ever left the Basque country, let alone go to another country (real other country I mean). Of his 4 brothers and sisters, 6 aunts and uncles and 10 cousins only 2 others live outside its boundaries, so as I say, if I remain married to the Spaniard who is my husband it's out of the question.
And that's the plan
for the moment...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Good grief, what are you trying to do to me! That sent a shiver down my spine!!
> I have no intention of ever going back to the UK. I'm not saying that with pride or being supercilious (an old fashioned word?), or implying that people who _*do*_ want to live in the UK are losers, but think I personally would be deeply unhappy living there, especially in the way that I could afford to live. Also, if I remain married to the Spaniard who is my husband, it's out of the question.
> Somewhere else?? Well that was always my plan, but The Husband pops up into view again. It's absolutely amazing that he ever left the Basque country, let alone go to another country (real other country I mean). Of his 4 brothers and sisters, 6 aunts and uncles and 10 cousins only 2 others live outside its boundaries, so as I say, if I remain married to the Spaniard who is my husband it's out of the question.
> And that's the plan
> for the moment...


I LOVE the word _supercilious_ - I use it all the time!!

so I guess you're permanent then?

.............for the moment.......

I've said before that dd1 sees her future in the 'whole world' - not Spain necessarily, after all we moved, so why wouldn't she??

dd2 hasn't yet thought about it - she's only 11

the world is our lobster, as they say - we fully intend to retire in 3 years -then.............


who knows????????????


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> halydia said:
> 
> 
> > Do you call yourself an immigrant?
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Great article which covers almost everything I think, except perhaps that we should consider how we are classified by the country we are in. I'm pretty sure that politically speaking I, and probably you, are classified as an immigrant, like it or not. That means we are lumped in with Nigerians, Bolivians, Russians, Moroccans and even Germans. So, even if you want to refer to yourself as an expat, you are officially an immigrant.
> I think sometimes a word just gets old; the world moves on and it doesn't. Frock comes to mind, motor car, you blighter(!!), salve -they sound old fashioned and out of place just like expat does to me.
> Apart from that, there are all the other stereotypes that some still believe like expats are a cut above the others etc. I too would prefer expressions like temporary resident, short/ longterm visitor/ worker etc.


For me, expat brings to mind a nice relaxed life. 
My life is anything but. 11 pm and I'm starting to plan tomorrow's classes, been too busy trying to decipher a _convocatoria_ for _oposiciones_ with the OH, decide on a wedding photographer, check up on my grant application, get electric connected to our new house (FRIGGIN' EH!), buy a sofa, and coordinate dates and times with the folks coming to measure for the fence and curtains.

Heck, I'd love for my life to bring up images of a nice relaxed life. Until then, "it ain't happenin'!"


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

There´s also the phrase "expat community", which to me brings up images of the British colonial types in India trying to create little ghettos of familiarity in a hostile land. Jewel in the Crown and all that.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> There´s also the phrase "expat community", which to me brings up images of the British colonial types in India trying to create little ghettos of familiarity in a hostile land. Jewel in the Crown and all that.


I live in a so called "expat community" and actually, there a re less Brits here than any other nationality - I guess the recession has something to do with it? But theres probably more Spanish than any other one nationality. So it doesnt really mean what British people think it means anymore!

Jo xxx


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Buy me a beer (or two) & you can call me anything you like.



Doggy


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I live in a so called "expat community" and actually, there a re less Brits here than any other nationality - I guess the recession has something to do with it? But theres probably more Spanish than any other one nationality. So it doesnt really mean what British people think it means anymore!
> 
> Jo xxx


So if it´s a _so-called_ expat community, somebody must still be calling it that? 

What do the other nationalities there call themselves, out of interest? Perhaps you could do a survey for us!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> So if it´s a _so-called_ expat community, somebody must still be calling it that?
> 
> What do the other nationalities there call themselves, out of interest? Perhaps you could do a survey for us!


 I dont think other nationalities think about it as much as us brits! They live in Spain and its what it is. Other nationalities dont seem to have the same infatuation about expats or foreigners???!!! The Spanish probably feel as we do about foreigners in the UK, altho they probably dont worry about the benefit system potentially being abused - but thats another topic! Personally I've come to realise (for me and my family) that its nice to be close to people you can relate to verbally and culturally as well as other nationalities

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> There´s also the phrase "expat community", which to me brings up images of the British colonial types in India trying to create little ghettos of familiarity in a hostile land. Jewel in the Crown and all that.


I dislike that very loose word 'community'. It makes me especially mad when I read/hear of the 'black community' or the 'gay community' and so on.
It implies ties that are superficial and ignore real differences between the real people who make up the so-called 'community'. These are almost always economic.
Lord Alan Sugar has a home near where I live but he's no member of any 'community' I could be part of. Similarly, what I have I in common with a single-parent lesbian living in a council flat in Brixton? Or Lenny Henry with an unemployed black youth in Stockwell?
We should drop these ridiculous abstracts and concentrate on what actually is the case in the world today.
I remember well a phrase heard amongst feminists in the '80s :'Mrs.Thatcher may be a woman but she isn't a sister'.
Kind of sums it up..


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I dislike that very loose word 'community'. It makes me especially mad when I read/hear of the 'black community' or the 'gay community' and so on.
> It implies ties that are superficial and ignore real differences between the real people who make up the so-called 'community'. These are almost always economic.
> Lord Alan Sugar has a home near where I live but he's no member of any 'community' I could be part of. Similarly, what I have I in common with a single-parent lesbian living in a council flat in Brixton? Or Lenny Henry with an unemployed black youth in Stockwell?
> We should drop these ridiculous abstracts and concentrate on what actually is the case in the world today.
> ...


Spot on.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Do you wanna know what I really think??? I think its high time we stopped worrying about stereotypical names, titles, groups, descriptions etc! If everyone stopped being so easily offended by all of this then the world would be a lot more pleasant. It seems in this day an age you have to walk a mine field of PC words and titles, how stupid! Quite frankly, if I want to offend someone, it wouldnt be with some vague name, they'd know full well what I meant. the same when people speak to or about me - call me what you like, I'll know from your tone or expletives what you mean. We should all be aware of our differences and idiosyncrasies and be open about them and even laugh about them. I get really fed up with "pussy footing" around delicate egos, constantly having to "be careful" what words I use to have a conversation, or type on here in case I inadvertently offend - cos, like I say, it would be inadvertent - you'd know if it wasnt!!! So, for what its worth call me what you like, stereotype me, pidgeon hole me, it matters not!! 

There! Rant over - As you were lol!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Do you wanna know what I really think??? I think its high time we stopped worrying about stereotypical names, titles, groups, descriptions etc! If everyone stopped being so easily offended by all of this then the world would be a lot more pleasant. It seems in this day an age you have to walk a mine field of PC words and titles, how stupid! Quite frankly, if I want to offend someone, it wouldnt be with some vague name, they'd know full well what I meant. the same when people speak to or about me - call me what you like, I'll know from your tone or expletives what you mean. We should all be aware of our differences and idiosyncrasies and be open about them and even laugh about them. I get really fed up with "pussy footing" around delicate egos, constantly having to "be careful" what words I use to have a conversation, or type on here in case I inadvertently offend - cos, like I say, it would be inadvertent - you'd know if it wasnt!!! So, for what its worth call me what you like, stereotype me, pidgeon hole me, it matters not!!
> 
> There! Rant over - As you were lol!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, I kind of agree with you Jojo, but despite what you and I might think is a good idea, and despite the values we might try to guide our children towards including in their own, people do judge others. And in order to do that people out there in the Real World make assumptions, like labelling, grouping, lumping together and jumping to the wrong conclusion.
And you can bet that you and I do it all the time too. The best we can hope for is to live and learn.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, I kind of agree with you Jojo, but despite what you and I might think is a good idea, and despite the values we might try to guide our children towards including in their own, people do judge others. And in order to do that people out there in the Real World make assumptions, like labelling, grouping, lumping together and jumping to the wrong conclusion.
> And you can bet that you and I do it all the time too. The best we can hope for is to live and learn.


Maybe, and maybe I'm being a little inensitive??? Its just sometimes we seem to get so offended by such silly things, there are so many other things to get offended by and is it really bad to be "lumped" together?? IMO, if I'm considered "an Expat" and I'm blonde, so if people assume that makes me stereotypical then do I care??? No! Those who know me, know what I'm like, those who get to know me will know what I'm like - am I a "typical expat" or aq typical blonde? I dont know - I'm me!!

I just felt like having a rant really 

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Maybe, and maybe I'm being a little inensitive??? Its just sometimes we seem to get so offended by such silly things, there are so many other things to get offended by and is it really bad to be "lumped" together?? IMO, if I'm considered "an Expat" and I'm blonde, so if people assume that makes me stereotypical then do I care??? No! Those who know me, know what I'm like, those who get to know me will know what I'm like - am I a "typical expat" or aq typical blonde? I dont know - I'm me!!
> 
> I just felt like having a rant really
> 
> Jo xxx


But what if someone from, say, Norway or South Korea came along and said "all blonde British expats are fat and stupid, and drink too much?" Then you would quite rightly be indignant, because if course it's not true. It's a generalisation, probably based on prejudice, because maybe he's heard too many dumb blonde jokes. 

That's the danger of stereotyping, and why we should all try to avoid it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> But what if someone from, say, Norway or South Korea came along and said "all blonde British expats are fat and stupid, and drink too much?" Then you would quite rightly be indignant,


I wouldnt be tho! That my point, we take offense too easily. I'd be offended if someone came up to me personally and in "a tone" said that TO ME - Altho I'm not fat, dont drink ..... the stupid bit??? hhhmmm I have my moments! But as a generalisation, maybe thats how other folk see us??!! I dont know, but I dont care

Jo xxx


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