# I feel ripped off



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

So I completed my Spanish residency yesterday
Went home with our little squares of paper clutched guardedly in our hands feeling great that we had completed the process

Woke up this morning and went to various Spanish newspapers online- only to find out despite my residency I still struggle to read more than a dozen words of Spanish

I raced to the bathroom mirror and tried facing my reflection to stammer out Spanish phrases- nothing!

What a rip off

We will make an appointment to return to the residency office soon as its pretty obvious we were given dud residencies

I believe there is a 30 day refund or exchange available but we are still annoyed


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> So I completed my Spanish residency yesterday
> Went home with our little squares of paper clutched guarded by in our hands feeling great that we had completed the process
> 
> Woke up this morning and went to various Spanish newspapers online- only to find out despite my residency I still struggle to read more than a dozen words of Spanish
> ...




Oh dear.... it's when you get NATIONALITY that Spanish comes easily(ish) 

You have 10 years to work towards that - so get practising!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Oh dear... I think you are confusing residency with citizenship...

Not everyone knows that you become fluent once you get your DNI /passport, not with that useless green bit of paper.

An easy mistake to make.

D'oh, Xabiachica beat me to it...


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

That's easy for you to say but I was led to believe I would be able to " parlez vous" within hours of getting my paperwork


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Congratulations on getting your residency! You might not be fluent in Spanish yet, but you've learnt to navigate the bureaucracy, which is a big step. 

Now, go down to the nearest bar with no English speakers in it and ask the locals how come England beat Spain 3-2 last night. Explain that as you are Irish, you don't have a dog in the fight, you're just curious!

It's conversations like that which help you become fluent, especially after a few beers.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Now, go down to the nearest bar with no English speakers in it and ask the locals how come England beat Spain 3-2 last night. Explain that as you are Irish, you don't have a dog in the fight, you're just curious!
> 
> It's conversations like that which help you become fluent, especially after a few beers.


Would it go something like this or is there a Spanish equivalent to the saying?

no tengo un perro en la pelea, porque soy irlandes, pero, ¿cómo Inglaterra ganó España anoche?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

stevesainty said:


> Would it go something like this or is there a Spanish equivalent to the saying?
> 
> no tengo un perro en la pelea, porque soy irlandes, pero, ¿cómo Inglaterra ganó España anoche?


Well, I don't know whether "tener un perro en la pelea" is a phrase used in Spanish but I'm sure they'd understand! Or you could say "no tengo ningún interés personal".

And I would say "inglaterra venció a España" or "ganó el partido contra...".

Either way it was a bit of shock, though nobody seems too bothered about this new League of Nations tournament.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

BTW, not to black cat or anything, just very excited, we exchanged our residencias for permanent ones today. We also had to change our address but we still wanted the green card with "permanente" on it.
Here in Torrevieja we still had to jump through the hoops of proving income and health care cover even though we have been residents for over 5 years.

Am I right in thinking that these little green cards are actually called tarjeta comunidades and not residencias?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

They are technically certificates of registration on the list of EU country nationals living in Spain.

Before these were invented, we had ID cards (which actually served as ID) with the huge wording "EXTRANJERO" across the top.... these were also incorrectly referred to as resident's cards.


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

stevesainty said:


> BTW, not to black cat or anything, just very excited, we exchanged our residencias for permanent ones today. We also had to change our address but we still wanted the green card with "permanente" on it.
> Here in Torrevieja we still had to jump through the hoops of proving income and health care cover even though we have been residents for over 5 years.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that these little green cards are actually called tarjeta comunidades and not residencias?


Well you learn something every day. I thought residency or whatever you want to call it for an EU citizen was residency, no such thing as temporary or permanent on it. 

Mine is an A4 green piece of paper with no expiry date. 

I think the whole nonsense is just to get you into the Spanish tax system. If Desperate Dan from any EU country arrives in Spain penniless, under free movement EU laws they cannot deport him. Sorry I know the subject is a can of worms with many different opinions.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> Here in Torrevieja we still had to jump through the hoops of proving income and health care cover even though we have been residents for over 5 years.


I don't think they were interpreting the rules correctly. When we went through this process in Torre del Mar, Andalucia, 4 years ago we were not asked to provide anything other than our passports and the original registration card to be handed back, plus the application form and proof of having paid the fee.

I had printed off a copy of this page and taken it with me, as it sets out what documents are required, but didn't need to produce it as we weren't asked for anything else.

http://www.interior.gob.es/web/serv...ion-europea/residencia-de-caracter-permanente


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> I don't think they were interpreting the rules correctly. When we went through this process in Torre del Mar, Andalucia, 4 years ago we were not asked to provide anything other than our passports and the original registration card to be handed back, plus the application form and proof of having paid the fee.


In Torrevieja they definitely weren't. 

There is no requirement to prove anything at all if you've been registered for 5 years, except your ID & that you've paid the fee.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> I don't think they were interpreting the rules correctly. When we went through this process in Torre del Mar, Andalucia, 4 years ago we were not asked to provide anything other than our passports and the original registration card to be handed back, plus the application form and proof of having paid the fee.
> 
> I had printed off a copy of this page and taken it with me, as it sets out what documents are required, but didn't need to produce it as we weren't asked for anything else.
> 
> Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior


You are correct Lynn R, and xabiachica (our posts crossed), they were not interpreting the rules correctly. 

The problem is, if you want to do anything to do with Spanish bureaucracy, you have to jump through all the local hoops in your own little corner of paradise. That is until some focus group or other gets to grips with them and makes them see the error of their ways. 

Meanwhile, you just do what you need to do, no big deal.There are more important things to get stressed about.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

uknowwhatimeanharry said:


> Well you learn something every day. I thought residency or whatever you want to call it for an EU citizen was residency, no such thing as temporary or permanent on it.
> 
> Mine is an A4 green piece of paper with no expiry date.
> 
> I think the whole nonsense is just to get you into the Spanish tax system. If Desperate Dan from any EU country arrives in Spain penniless, under free movement EU laws they cannot deport him. Sorry I know the subject is a can of worms with many different opinions.


No, they can't deport them (unless they have committed a serious crime). But the requiremment to prove they have sufficient income to live on etc (which has been in place since 2012) is nothing to do with tax. They simply won't be entitled to benefits available to legal residents.

The British government recently advised everyone who didn't have the word "permanent" on their green piece of paper to exchange it for the tarjeta (card), which apparently does.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

uknowwhatimeanharry said:


> Well you learn something every day. I thought residency or whatever you want to call it for an EU citizen was residency, no such thing as temporary or permanent on it.
> 
> Mine is an A4 green piece of paper with no expiry date.
> 
> I think the whole nonsense is just to get you into the Spanish tax system. If Desperate Dan from any EU country arrives in Spain penniless, under free movement EU laws they cannot deport him. Sorry I know the subject is a can of worms with many different opinions.


EU citizens are required to register as resident if they intend to stay for 3 months/90 days +

They have to prove that they are exercising treaty rights either by working or supporting themselves. 

They are not considered to be, nor do they have the right to permanent residency, until they have been registered for 5 years.

It's nothing to do with tax. You can be a registered resident but not tax resident, & vice versa.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> EU citizens are required to register as resident if they intend to stay for 3 months/90 days +
> 
> They have to prove that they are exercising treaty rights either by working or supporting themselves.
> 
> ...


In today's Sunday Times there is an article about British citizens living in France who are concerned about their future as a result of Brexit and the new draft laws recently announced there. It says that "those who have never registered and are not paying taxes are particularly worried". Well, so they b····y well should be! When we become third country citizens following Brexit then they WILL have the right to deport us if we are discovered to be in this irregular situation.


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

''When we went through this process in Torre del Mar, Andalucia, 4 years ago we were not asked to provide anything other than our passports and the original registration card to be handed back'',,,, I take it you wasn't being dealt by the 'youngish' woman there as she can be an absolute nightmare at times, works in the foreigners department and speaks perfect English,,, when she wants to!!!!!! not just my experience with her but many many other peoples experiences with her, she personally cost me over 100 euros to get an abogado to deal with her, rant over


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

bikerboy123 said:


> ''When we went through this process in Torre del Mar, Andalucia, 4 years ago we were not asked to provide anything other than our passports and the original registration card to be handed back'',,,, I take it you wasn't being dealt by the 'youngish' woman there as she can be an absolute nightmare at times, works in the foreigners department and speaks perfect English,,, when she wants to!!!!!! not just my experience with her but many many other peoples experiences with her, she personally cost me over 100 euros to get an abogado to deal with her, rant over


I honestly can't remember who it was who dealt with us. But I have used that office not only on my own behalf but also helping others on quite a few occasions (obtaining our original NIEs when we were non-resident, registering as residents, obtaining our permanent resident cards, helping other people apply for NIEs and register as residents) and I've never had a problem with any of the staff there.


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> I honestly can't remember who it was who dealt with us. But I have used that office not only on my own behalf but also helping others on quite a few occasions (obtaining our original NIEs when we were non-resident, registering as residents, obtaining our permanent resident cards, helping other people apply for NIEs and register as residents) and I've never had a problem with any of the staff there.


you lucky sod, even my abogado said she has a reputation as have other people on other expat sites.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Just to be clear re requirements if completing in Denia- whilst I had with me NIE, proof of income, proof of no co-payment health insurance etc- they asked for abso!utely NOTHING apart from 1 photograph and my passport


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Just to be clear re requirements if completing in Denia- whilst I had with me NIE, proof of income, proof of no co-payment health insurance etc- they asked for abso!utely NOTHING apart from 1 photograph and my passport


Interesting...

This is since the new healthcare rules?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Last Monday 15/10 at Denia Foreigners Police Dept to be exact


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

This is a confusing subject. 

So my green A4 bit of paper is now worthless and if I don’t change it for some card or other that says permanent I might get kicked out of Spain. Who would I hand my villa keys to that I have owned for 10 years?

Can I get this new card thing at the police station?

Also penniless EU Desperate Dan only needs to say he is looking for a job to secure his status in Spain, being penniless he won’t be too bothered about being tax resident unless he wins the lottery.

Surprising how much you can learn on a forum.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Last Monday 15/10 at Denia Foreigners Police Dept to be exact


Maybe there's a link then & they aren't asking for healthcare provision for new registrations.

I know someone who was registering in Benidorm last week. Must remember to ask him how it went!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

But they didn't ask for ANYTHING

Not just healthcare proof- didn't ask for NIE or Income proof either


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

uknowwhatimeanharry said:


> This is a confusing subject.
> 
> So my green A4 bit of paper is now worthless and if I don’t change it for some card or other that says permanent I might get kicked out of Spain. Who would I hand my villa keys to that I have owned for 10 years?
> 
> Can I get this new card thing at the police station?


Well, the British government isn't always right! I have the same piece of paper and I'm not going to change it unless someone here specifically tells me to. There is plenty of evidence that I've lived here since 2008, my tax and medical records for a start, so as far as I'm concerned I am a permanent resident.

But yes, if you do want to change it you have to go to the Extranjera at a national police station.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> Maybe there's a link then & they aren't asking for healthcare provision for new registrations.
> 
> I know someone who was registering in Benidorm last week. Must remember to ask him how it went!


In Chiclana last month they were asking for health insurance and income details, as well as NIE and all the usual stuff.

So I guess it depends where you are and who's on duty that day!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Just to be clear re requirements if completing in Denia- whilst I had with me NIE, proof of income, proof of no co-payment health insurance etc- they asked for abso!utely NOTHING apart from 1 photograph and my passport


Photograph? And what did they do with the photograph? Is there now a photo on the registration document?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

No
They simply staple the photo to their copy of your application papers


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

We may all have to change to a non EU resident card when the UK becomes non EU. The card will have a photo, I have ordered my Grecian 2,000.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> No
> They simply staple the photo to their copy of your application papers


The person I know who went to register at the Benidorm office last week was sent away without registering.

Apparently the healthcare policy they have wasn't accepted. It had copay.

Returned having taken out or changing to a non-copay policy & that wasn't accepted either.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> So I completed my Spanish residency yesterday
> Went home with our little squares of paper clutched guardedly in our hands feeling great that we had completed the process
> 
> Woke up this morning and went to various Spanish newspapers online- only to find out despite my residency I still struggle to read more than a dozen words of Spanish
> ...


Maybe it's because you didn't actually complete residency. You registered as an EU citizen living in Spain


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

*No Appointments Available*

I was going through the motion of obtaining an appointment online, Cita Previa, to register on the extranjeros register, so called residencia, in order to write down the steps involved to help folks on our local forums.

I noticed that there are no appointments available for Torrevieja!!

In Alicante province there are only two places now where you can choose to make an appointment, Benidorm and Elda.

1 is this because they are overwhelmed with people trying to register to beat the Brexit deadline?

2 Can you make an appointment to register in a town where you don´t actually live?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

stevesainty said:


> I was going through the motion of obtaining an appointment online, Cita Previa, to register on the extranjeros register, so called residencia, in order to write down the steps involved to help folks on our local forums.
> 
> I noticed that there are no appointments available for Torrevieja!!
> 
> ...


I went on to see if I could get an appointment to get our 'permanent' certs & discovered the same.

We can go to Benidorm from here & presumably others, though our usual one is Denia which as you say has no appointments. I don't want to go to Benidorm - it has a rep of being 'difficult' now, although that's where we originally registered. At the time it was a no appt system there, & it was before proof of income etc was needed. 

I shall keep checking to see if they open appts up again in Denia.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it were due to a mad panic for registration.

I know some who haven't made the actual move yet, who have registered to beat the possibility of needing a visa.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

stevesainty said:


> I was going through the motion of obtaining an appointment online, Cita Previa, to register on the extranjeros register, so called residencia, in order to write down the steps involved to help folks on our local forums.
> 
> I noticed that there are no appointments available for Torrevieja!!
> 
> ...


I live outside Madrid, but can make an appointment in Madrid if I can't get to my more local place


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