# Am interested in what members think...



## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

..re Brits who previously have lived under the radar in Spain will fare now they have been forced to sign up for a TIE card. 
Not from a moral issue, because we all know this is very wrong, but whether or not it is thought the hacienda be in touch....


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

TBH it is very hard to say. I am not sure if the hacienda is in direct contact with the department of immigration. I know that on the green card and presumably the TIE there is a number ( not the NIE) which can be used by gestors etc to access you whole tax history. My accountant uses it to check my modelo 100 from the previous year. So I guess its easy for hacienda to see when you began declaring in Spain. I imagine in practice you will only get caught if its a random spot check. These do happen as my ex worked in a tax office and often would say that when a client was investigated it was really thorough and required the production of absolutely everything.


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

As a former taxman holiday home owner once said....they have to catch you first! 
Guess their lifestyle won’t be interfered with until they return to UK to see grandkids when passport will be stamped......which will be noticed should they outstay their welcome in Spain.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Melosine said:


> ..re Brits who previously have lived under the radar in Spain will fare now they have been forced to sign up for a TIE card.
> Not from a moral issue, because we all know this is very wrong, but whether or not it is thought the hacienda be in touch....


Erm Forced to sign up. Not round here.

I know of at least 3 people personally who have said they wont bother and will continue the way they are. 
One of them never goes back to the UK but refuses to become resident, the others seem to think that someone will wave a magic wand and they will be 'allowed' to stay for whatever lengths of time they want. 
These two go back to the Uk 2 or 3 times a year to MOT the car, visit the doctor (the wife said she would consider buying a new car in the UK because it wont need MOT for 3 years)

Ive stopped talking to them as they were questioning why me and the wife were doing everything by the book.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

I know of several people that the taxman has caught up with. Their bank accounts have their NIE and if they have residencia then the taxman assumes they are tax resident. If you have a non-residents account and don't have residencia, then you will probably get away with it until you get stopped in your car and the Guardia ask for identity - the only real identity is your passport for British people 

Davexf


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

Our bank insisted on seeing our green residencia ( TIE) paper. Perhaps all banks will be required to check now. Whatever I hope for such folk their days are numbered because the ones we know were insistent voting OUT a was a must....because nothing would change......


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Melosine said:


> Our bank insisted on seeing our green residencia ( TIE) paper. Perhaps all banks will be required to check now. Whatever I hope for such folk their days are numbered because the ones we know were insistent voting OUT a was a must....because nothing would change......


But if those who are 'under the radar' who live here, don't have residence they will still have a Non Residents bank account or even use their UK one (or one of the raft of digital banks) so they wont get caught that way.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Barriej said:


> But if those who are 'under the radar' who live here, don't have residence they will still have a Non Residents bank account or even use their UK one (or one of the raft of digital banks) so they wont get caught that way.


Strange these people under the radar tell everyone about their financial affairs. I know quite a few who I think are under it but not been told anything.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Strange these people under the radar tell everyone about their financial affairs. I know quite a few who I think are under it but not been told anything.


One or two people I know actually brag about what they have and what they do. Maybe its because we live in an area with a large percentage of immigrants. (me included). And they think they are amongst friends.

I get the odd question as to 'how can your wife at 58year old afford to buy a property and retire and not need or want to work?'
Not answering that but it involved lots of very hard work and saving..

Its not hard to work out ways to 'stay under the radar' and I'm assuming (as I don't know) that it may have been possible to buy a little finca years ago without being in the system, especially if it was from another brit and the cash was in a brown bag and in the UK. 
You can (again I'm assuming still pay cash at the electric company and for your water) 

What about these people who live almost totally off grid?

Having an NIE doesn't do much (or does it)?


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

Isobella said:


> Strange these people under the radar tell everyone about their financial affairs. I know quite a few who I think are under it but not been told anything.


2 reasons. Because they are assuming everyone here is on some type of fiddle. 
Certainly most people we have met have exaggerated their importance or wealth of their previous lives. 
Plus, WHO a would you report it to anyway even if Brits were quislings, which they are not.
One just lives in hope stamping the passport will catch them out.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

Melosine said:


> 2 reasons. Because they are assuming everyone here is on some type of fiddle.
> Certainly most people we have met have exaggerated their importance or wealth of their previous lives.
> Plus, WHO a would you report it to anyway even if Brits were quislings, which they are not.
> One just lives in hope stamping the passport will catch them out.


During around 15 years running my engineering business in Mallorca, I tried reporting people living there illegally and working on the black, who were stealing business from us by undercutting our quotations. Even using the confidential calculations and other information in our quotations as the basis for theirs.
It was a total waste of time, as I was just handed forms for reporting illegal workers, which were designed to report people working in a fixed place, where they could send inspectors. When I went to speak to someone in person I was simply sent from one office to another because no-one really wanted the hassle.
I'm sure all the black workers in Mallorca are still happily continuing as they always have, and I could name dozens.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I personally think that people over-estimate the impact or importance of a handful of unregistered Brit pensioners or dodgy dealers have on the Spanish system.
The Spanish authorities, particularly hacienda have much bigger fish to fry with national tax evasion, and immigration from seriously wealthy immigrant groups which they will target before going after these insignificant shady characters.
If some are feeling the pressure to get legal, good for them, I couldn't live with the risk hanging over me either, but those that don't probably stand very little chance of having any serious problems in the future anyway.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Barriej said:


> These two go back to the Uk 2 or 3 times a year to MOT the car, visit the doctor (the wife said she would consider buying a new car in the UK because it wont need MOT for 3 years)


Driving an UK plated car is going to put them at risk of being stopped. Even pre Brexit that wasn't really allowed for extended periods. 

I'd say flying to the UK for a doctor's visit is bordering on bonkers. What happens if they're really sick?


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

NickZ said:


> Driving an UK plated car is going to put them at risk of being stopped. Even pre Brexit that wasn't really allowed for extended periods.
> 
> I'd say flying to the UK for a doctor's visit is bordering on bonkers. What happens if they're really sick?


Nobody an predict when they are going to be Seriously ill and if they've got no medical cover it could cost them thousands of euros for treatment and aftercare especially from next year.

Steve


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I personally think that people over-estimate the impact or importance of a handful of unregistered Brit pensioners or dodgy dealers have on the Spanish system.
> The Spanish authorities, particularly hacienda have much bigger fish to fry with national tax evasion, and immigration from seriously wealthy immigrant groups which they will target before going after these insignificant shady characters.
> If some are feeling the pressure to get legal, good for them, I couldn't live with the risk hanging over me either, but those that don't probably stand very little chance of having any serious problems in the future anyway.


If people try to go back and forth or have economic ties to both the UK and Spain I would hope that they would get "caught", What the consequences will be is another thing, but hopefully a fine and an end to that way of life. Yup, I 'm one of those; I'm trying to do it legally and want everyone else to do the same (up to now it has been sheer laziness or attitude of being able to "get away" with something, or feeling of superiority of getting one over the Spanish, not because it was difficult to do that has stopped people from becoming a legal resident of Spain).
However, if the person is already here and doesn't have ties to the UK, I'm not sure that they will be visible and could continue to be invisible...


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## Hepa (Apr 2, 2018)

Here ( El Hierro), there. are few immigrants from the British Isles, but for the few that are here, there is a huge financial incentive to become resident, residents of the Canary Isles get substantial discounts on flights and ferries, within Spain, its islands, and overseas territories.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> Nobody an predict when they are going to be Seriously ill and if they've got no medical cover it could cost them thousands of euros for treatment and aftercare especially from next year.
> 
> Steve


True. A friend who did have medical cover had a heart attack. Was a dispute over a pre existing condition and was told he would have to pay whist still in hospital. Cost was about 25,000 euro and that was years ago.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

NickZ said:


> I'd say flying to the UK for a doctor's visit is bordering on bonkers. What happens if they're really sick?


They use their EHIC I suppose. But of course they won’t be able too for much longer. That will probably be as big if not bigger an issue than having a TIE.

I know a few people who are legally resident here and have S1 cover but still stay registered with their NHS doctors in the UK and see them when they are over visiting family, because they feel more comfortable with someone they have built up a relationship with, who knows their medical history and can speak in English. I don’t know if it’s legal, I guess not as they are using a false address, but it seems quite reasonable given that they paid NI contributions over the years.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

If you are an S1 holder you are entitled to use the NHS and hospitals as long as you produce that paperwork when required. Not sure though about retaining your doctor. 

Steve


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> They use their EHIC I suppose. But of course they won’t be able too for much longer. That will probably be as big if not bigger an issue than having a TIE.
> 
> I know a few people who are legally resident here and have S1 cover but still stay registered with their NHS doctors in the UK and see them when they are over visiting family, because they feel more comfortable with someone they have built up a relationship with, who knows their medical history and can speak in English. I don’t know if it’s legal, I guess not as they are using a false address, but it seems quite reasonable given that they paid NI contributions over the years.


Unless your doctor takes you off their list NHS he is still getting paid whether or not you use the service. Bit of a grey area. Might get complicated if patient need hospital treatment.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Melosine said:


> Unless your doctor takes you off their list NHS he is still getting paid whether or not you use the service. Bit of a grey area. Might get complicated if patient need hospital treatment.


You could be right, but as Ive only visited my doctor 3 times since 1997 and all of those times were to register each time we moved house. 
They have never contacted me and as far as the one in the last place is concerned Im still there. 

We didn't unregister when we moved over 3 months ago as we had not finalised our plans (we planned to spend time with family here and then were going to become nomadic and travel the world) But Covid has put that on ice for a while.


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