# Help - landlord won't return deposit!



## jcat123

My landlord is refusing to return our deposit of 1500 Euros for the following reasons:

- Broken, sunken cushion on the couch
- Hairdye marks on the bathroom door
- A matress is sunken and a spring is broken
- One of the air conditioner remotes is missing

she also mentions the fact that we rented out our room for two months instead of completing the contract (2 out of 4 of us, and the new tenant paid the rent of course) and she had agreed to this with my roommate.

Now I would understand maybe 100 or so Euros for damages, but I absolutely do not agree with not returning the entire deposit.

Do any of you have any advice on how to deal with this? I’m not in Spain anymore but my two roommates are. My landlord can’t be entitled to the entire amount. I’ve already been through a horrible situation with a Spanish landlord and ended up losing nearly 1000 euros. I’m not getting messed with again. I’d appreciate any advice, thank you!


----------



## jojo

jcat123 said:


> My landlord is refusing to return our deposit of 1500 Euros for the following reasons:
> 
> - Broken, sunken cushion on the couch
> - Hairdye marks on the bathroom door
> - A matress is sunken and a spring is broken
> - One of the air conditioner remotes is missing
> 
> she also mentions the fact that we rented out our room for two months instead of completing the contract (2 out of 4 of us, and the new tenant paid the rent of course) and she had agreed to this with my roommate.
> 
> Now I would understand maybe 100 or so Euros for damages, but I absolutely do not agree with not returning the entire deposit.
> 
> Do any of you have any advice on how to deal with this? I’m not in Spain anymore but my two roommates are. My landlord can’t be entitled to the entire amount. I’ve already been through a horrible situation with a Spanish landlord and ended up losing nearly 1000 euros. I’m not getting messed with again. I’d appreciate any advice, thank you!


I've never got my deposits back. The reasons have been ridiculous. The last time it happened, I had inadvertently stopped the standing order for the rent a month early - So there my landlord was telling me the immaculate house I'd had a company into clean was gonna cost over 1000€ to rectify and therefore couldnt possibly give me my deposit back, went ballistic when he realised the next day that the last months rent hadnt been paid. He demanded the last months rent and I demanded my deposit and thats how it still stands!!!!!!

I dont think theres much you can do about it sadly. I'll try and find the post I posted when this incident happened to me, there may have been some useful tips

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo

Here you go, have look thru this from when it happened to me

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/28549-deposit.html

Jo xxx


----------



## jcat123

Thanks for your help, I'm guessing you didn't get yours back? 
I really don't want them to get away with this.


----------



## jojo

jcat123 said:


> Thanks for your help, I'm guessing you didn't get yours back?
> I really don't want them to get away with this.


nope and from what I can gather, very few people do. It seems common practice to not pay the last months rent - which as I say, I inadvertently didnt!!  I really dont know what you can do either?!

Jo xxxx


----------



## Guest

jcat123 said:


> Thanks for your help, I'm guessing you didn't get yours back?
> I really don't want them to get away with this.


My experience in Spain is that deposits are normally *NEVER* paid back. Not paying the last month rent is the best (and probably only) solution to get even.


----------



## mrypg9

Eva33 said:


> My experience in Spain is that deposits are normally *NEVER* paid back. Not paying the last month rent is the best (and probably only) solution to get even.



I think it's the case everywhere. We had the same experience in Prague. Our landlord presented us with a request for £3000 equivalent in Czech crowns for 'electricity and other charges' but couldn't show receipts. We decided not to pay as he had our security deposit of £1000 and we thought we probably owed him a few £ but not anywhere near £1000. This experience taught us a lesson so when we decided to leave our piso we simply sat out the two months' rent our deposit covered.
We shall do the same if we move from our present address. In fact, our current landlord advised us not to pay the last two months' rent on the piso so he won't be expecting us to pay him!
At the end of the day, what can the landlord do? Harassment of tenants is a serious offence here as in most places and although there is an arbitration mechanism in case of dispute, enforcing judgments against either party would seem difficult, to say the least.


----------



## Stravinsky

You should have sorted it out when you were still here I'm afraid, its almost impossible now without incurring the cocts of coming back

You may have been advised to take photographs of the alleged damage, cost out the new remote. However I wouldnt be suprised if the landlord produces a large quote for repairing / replacing the upholstery and bed.

A denuncia may have been the way forward but I suspect it's too late for all that now, sorry.



jcat123 said:


> My landlord is refusing to return our deposit of 1500 Euros for the following reasons:
> 
> - Broken, sunken cushion on the couch
> - Hairdye marks on the bathroom door
> - A matress is sunken and a spring is broken
> - One of the air conditioner remotes is missing
> 
> she also mentions the fact that we rented out our room for two months instead of completing the contract (2 out of 4 of us, and the new tenant paid the rent of course) and she had agreed to this with my roommate.
> 
> Now I would understand maybe 100 or so Euros for damages, but I absolutely do not agree with not returning the entire deposit.
> 
> Do any of you have any advice on how to deal with this? I’m not in Spain anymore but my two roommates are. My landlord can’t be entitled to the entire amount. I’ve already been through a horrible situation with a Spanish landlord and ended up losing nearly 1000 euros. I’m not getting messed with again. I’d appreciate any advice, thank you!


----------



## oisinmac

this happens all the time in Spain and needs to change, the only way is to fight it until the mindset changes, legally you are entitled to your deposit back however the law states that the landlord is also entitled to rescind some money to pay for any breakages etc. This is where the grey area comes in as they often find many things which you would not normally consider. One important point to remember though is that the landlord is NOT entitled to charge you for normal wear and tear, i.e. the depreciation of items in the household which occurs naturally over time


----------



## Spanky McSpank

Unfortunately a lot of foreigners get cleaned out in Spain. I assure you that would not happen if you were Spanish. More backbone is needed, and a threat of a denuncia. Usually they soon change tact.


----------



## Stravinsky

Spanky McSpank said:


> Unfortunately a lot of foreigners get cleaned out in Spain. I assure you that would not happen if you were Spanish.



It does!


----------



## mrypg9

Stravinsky said:


> It does!



Yes, of course it does. Greedy and unscrupulous people prey on anyone who is vulnerable, regardless of nationality, ethnicity etc. It is a myth that people treat their own citizens differently.
There are also two sides to this issue. We have experienced them both as owners of rented properties and, currently, as tenants.
Security deposits are an essential protection against default and damage by tenants. I have heard so many horror stories of abuses by tenants and experienced at first hand how irresponsible and selfish some tenants can be. We have also as I wrote earlier had truly appalling, grasping landlords -one in the CR and one -or at least agents purporting to act on behalf of the landlord -here in Spain.
Of course, if both parties behaved in a considerate and responsible manner disputes would rarely arise but as this is a pie-in-the -sky hope, perhaps the best solution would be for the deposit to be placed in an interest-bearing account in the hands of some truly impartial agency respected by both sides.
I'm not sure what this agency would look like in Spain but in the UK I would suggest the CAB or similar independent organisation.


----------



## Stravinsky

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, of course it does. Greedy and unscrupulous people prey on anyone who is vulnerable, regardless of nationality, ethnicity etc. It is a myth that people treat their own citizens differently.
> There are also two sides to this issue. We have experienced them both as owners of rented properties and, currently, as tenants.
> Security deposits are an essential protection against default and damage by tenants. I have heard so many horror stories of abuses by tenants and experienced at first hand how irresponsible and selfish some tenants can be. We have also as I wrote earlier had truly appalling, grasping landlords -one in the CR and one -or at least agents purporting to act on behalf of the landlord -here in Spain.
> Of course, if both parties behaved in a considerate and responsible manner disputes would rarely arise but as this is a pie-in-the -sky hope, perhaps the best solution would be for the deposit to be placed in an interest-bearing account in the hands of some truly impartial agency respected by both sides.
> I'm not sure what this agency would look like in Spain but in the UK I would suggest the CAB or similar independent organisation.


Its just the same in the UK, so I'm not suprised to hear of it here. My daughter was taken for a deposit when she was at Uni. The stupid landlord though forgot that I hadnt paid my last quarters rent to him before declaring that he wasnt returning the deposits. There was no damage, so why should he be able to take advantage!


----------



## jojo

I personally think that its simply that the landlords have spent the deposit and havent got it to give back anymore!! 

I thought that in the UK now, it was a legal requirement if done thru an agent, that the deposit money was put into a special bank account which cannot be touched. When the time comes, receipts have to be provided by the land lord justifying any reductions on the returned (or not) deposit

Jo xx


----------



## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> I personally think that its simply that the landlords have spent the deposit and havent got it to give back anymore!!
> 
> I thought that in the UK now, it was a legal requirement if done thru an agent, that the deposit money was put into a special bank account which cannot be touched. When the time comes, receipts have to be provided by the land lord justifying any reductions on the returned (or not) deposit
> 
> Jo xx


Maybe so if it was recent, but not so sure in studentland


----------



## mrypg9

Stravinsky said:


> Its just the same in the UK, so I'm not suprised to hear of it here. My daughter was taken for a deposit when she was at Uni. The stupid landlord though forgot that I hadnt paid my last quarters rent to him before declaring that he wasnt returning the deposits. There was no damage, so why should he be able to take advantage!


Justice was done!


----------



## fourgotospain

Tis the case now in studentland as well - our tenants are students and their deposits are held by a third party. They also have to have guarantors (sp?) such as parents who guarantee the rent for the full contract and will risk their credit rating if not - that's the easiest way to keep them in check rather than threatening court action etc. 

I think it's quite fair now as have been on the other end as well. Touch wood our students are pretty good but then I think I'm a pretty good landlord - I wouldn't expect them to be touching up paintwork or deep cleaning - but they need to leave it as they found it otherwise. We have a full image inventory - pictures of every door, wall and floor as well as the fixtures and fittings so we can say 'no that large beer stain was not on the carpet when you moved in!' I'll be doing the same in our spanish rental in 4 weeks time =:-o !


----------



## Stravinsky

fourgotospain said:


> Tis the case now in studentland as well - our tenants are students and their deposits are held by a third party. They also have to have guarantors (sp?) such as parents who guarantee the rent for the full contract and will risk their credit rating if not - that's the easiest way to keep them in check rather than threatening court action etc.
> 
> I think it's quite fair now as have been on the other end as well. Touch wood our students are pretty good but then I think I'm a pretty good landlord - I wouldn't expect them to be touching up paintwork or deep cleaning - but they need to leave it as they found it otherwise. We have a full image inventory - pictures of every door, wall and floor as well as the fixtures and fittings so we can say 'no that large beer stain was not on the carpet when you moved in!' I'll be doing the same in our spanish rental in 4 weeks time =:-o !


So who is the third party, and who decides! When did the law come in (not before time!)


----------



## Dave Parker

For people about to sign a new contract.....If you find a reputable rental/estate agent they should hold the deposit in thier bank account and deal with any issues regarding damages when the lease expires but most do not as it can be a headache to reach an agreement between the owner and tenant and may lead to being involved in time consuming legal proceedings. 
You should know who is holding your deposit (it should say on your rental contract). Some owners are prepared to slowly pay back the deposit by giving a rent reduction therefore gradually paying your deposit back whilst having the property inspected quarterly, meaning by the end of your contract the deposit has reduced to a few hundred euro's. It's worth a try as keeping the whole deposit in the owners bank account is risky, if they've spent it you'll never get it back because they'll see it as an out from thier savings or lack of.


----------



## jojo

Dave Parker said:


> For people about to sign a new contract.....If you find a reputable rental/estate agent they should hold the deposit in thier bank account and deal with any issues regarding damages when the lease expires but most do not as it can be a headache to reach an agreement between the owner and tenant and may lead to being involved in time consuming legal proceedings.
> You should know who is holding your deposit (it should say on your rental contract). Some owners are prepared to slowly pay back the deposit by giving a rent reduction therefore gradually paying your deposit back whilst having the property inspected quarterly, meaning by the end of your contract the deposit has reduced to a few hundred euro's. It's worth a try as keeping the whole deposit in the owners bank account is risky, if they've spent it you'll never get it back because they'll see it as an out from thier savings or lack of.


I'm not sure that keeping it in an agents account is any safer under the present economic climate !!!! I've yet toknow of one that does that - I think in the UK, deposits have to be put into a special holding account, but its not obligatory in Spain. In fact I think some agents keep it as their finders fee and others charge two months deposit and keep half as their finders fee??!!


Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9

fourgotospain said:


> Tis the case now in studentland as well - our tenants are students and their deposits are held by a third party. They also have to have guarantors (sp?) such as parents who guarantee the rent for the full contract and will risk their credit rating if not - that's the easiest way to keep them in check rather than threatening court action etc.
> 
> I think it's quite fair now as have been on the other end as well. Touch wood our students are pretty good but then I think I'm a pretty good landlord - I wouldn't expect them to be touching up paintwork or deep cleaning - but they need to leave it as they found it otherwise. We have a full image inventory - pictures of every door, wall and floor as well as the fixtures and fittings so we can say 'no that large beer stain was not on the carpet when you moved in!' I'll be doing the same in our spanish rental in 4 weeks time =:-o !


Way to go!! Expectations and responsibilities clearly set out, your tenants could have no grounds for complaint. 
When we had rental properties a decade or so ago we managed them ourselves but when we left the UK we used an agent. What a mistake! The agent gave us references for one tenant which he knew were not factually correct, he failed to regularly inspect the property as promised and didn't transfer utilities into the tenant's name as also promised.
And for this he took a hefty percentage of rental payments....


----------

