# Some help on 491 and 190 doubts and differences please!



## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

Hello Kangaroos!

The more I read about 491 and 190 visa the more confusing it gets, it seems some info is missing. 

What I understand till now, apart from the basics of ACS, english tests and points etc.

- both 491 and 190 need state/territory nomination
- in 491 the state will choose you but for 190 you have the option to choose one like VIC in my case.
- but 491 also has the option for family sponsorship
- for 491: Must live and work for 3 years in regional areas to get Permanent Residence (Skilled Regional) 191 Visa
- for 190: you can live in the state/territory permanently 

Is this all there is to it? 

I have 95 pts under 491, 85 under 190 and 80 under 189 for ICT security 262112, any ideas on by when I can get some news on this?

Also both 491 and 190 don't release any info on the cutoffs etc, just why?

Thanks!


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> Hello Kangaroos!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Few points for you to consider. 

1- visa 190 is PR while 491 is temporary visa. 
2- in 190 you just need to live and work anywhere in the state for 2 years. Exception can be granted in case of few states. While 491 needs to stay and work 3 years in regional. 
3- 190 is full PR so you can stay in Australia as long as you want and applying for citizenship after 4 years. While 491 you can only apply for PR after staying and working 3 years. This PR would be 191 and it may have other restrictions of 3 year stay in regional in order to apply for citizen. (I haven't been tracking 491 very well so please double check condition for 191). 
4- no minimum income criteria for 190 visa while for 491 you would need to earn 53.1k or whatever the minimum wage is. 
5- finding ICT jobs is challenging even in cities but in regional chances are very slim because how many companies in ICT would have offices in regional. 
6- you can choose any state for 491 or 190. It's upto you that which state you apply for. 

7- chances or getting the invite. Depends if your job code is pro rata or not. For majority of pro rata the trend have been 90 and above. 
8- DHA doesn't have all the stats for 190/491 as these are states choice who they invite and when. They may invite a 65 pointer but reject a 90 pointer. Freedom of information act have stats for state invites and points they invited on last year until July or so. Search disclosure logs DHA and you shall find it. 

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## VK246 (Feb 12, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> Few points for you to consider.
> 
> 1- visa 190 is PR while 491 is temporary visa.
> 2- in 190 you just need to live and work anywhere in the state for 2 years. Exception can be granted in case of few states. While 491 needs to stay and work 3 years in regional.
> ...


Regarding #3, is there any source to your knowledge which says that there could be a requirement for 191 (another 3 years stay) or is it an imagination?

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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

VK246 said:


> Regarding #3, is there any source to your knowledge which says that there could be a requirement for 191 (another 3 years stay) or is it an imagination?
> 
> Sent from my TA-1004 using Tapatalk


I cannot edit the original post anymore so apologies for the confusion.

I now recall why I had said. There were discussion in this forum where it was brought up another 2-3 years timeline before citizenship due to processing time. For example in 489 to 887 processing time was 12-18 months but in that wait time was counted if I am not forgetting. While here that won't be the case meaning for citizenship purposes your 1 year will start when you get this visa. initially 191 applications would be processed quickly but once this visa picks up the pace then the worse case is that it also takes a 1+ years processing time followed by another one year to become citizen. So you are looking minimum 4-6 year stay (3 regional + process time for 191 + 1 year anywhere) to become citizen. 

Note: please check with mara agents if still any confusion or wait for senior members to respond. 

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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> Few points for you to consider.
> 
> 1- visa 190 is PR while 491 is temporary visa.
> 2- in 190 you just need to live and work anywhere in the state for 2 years. Exception can be granted in case of few states. While 491 needs to stay and work 3 years in regional.
> ...


6- you can choose any state for 491 or 190. It's upto you that which state you apply for.

but in the skillselect portal when I applied for the EOI only 190 has the option to choose a state and 491 has no such option!


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> 6- you can choose any state for 491 or 190. It's upto you that which state you apply for.
> 
> 
> 
> but in the skillselect portal when I applied for the EOI only 190 has the option to choose a state and 491 has no such option!


I haven't applied for 491 so not sure what skillselect is showing you. If it's similar to 489 then I guess you may had selected family stream due to which you couldn't see any state option. Is that the case? Do you see the option to be nominated by state instead? When selecting 491. 

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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> I haven't applied for 491 so not sure what skillselect is showing you. If it's similar to 489 then I guess you may had selected family stream due to which you couldn't see any state option. Is that the case? Do you see the option to be nominated by state instead? When selecting 491.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


i checked again, so there is only option to choose a state, i think its for both 190 and 491 combined.

I didnt choose the family option, nope.


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> i checked again, so there is only option to choose a state, i think its for both 190 and 491 combined.
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt choose the family option, nope.


File separate EOI for 491 and 190. Selecting single state would apply to both which definitely had disadvantage. 

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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> File separate EOI for 491 and 190. Selecting single state would apply to both which definitely had disadvantage.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


I am not sure what that means because there is one EOI ID with options to select all the visas in it. 

This is how the options are.. the images are not showing up ! 

just edit these pls add tt to h t t p s :: hXXps://imgur.com/0Adr9OM hXXps://imgur.com/U9mQxbl

https://imgur.com/U9mQxbl

https://imgur.com/0Adr9OM


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> I am not sure what that means because there is one EOI ID with options to select all the visas in it.
> 
> This is how the options are.. the images are not showing up !
> 
> ...


That means create multiple EOI (ID) to lodge application for each state separately. 

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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> That means create multiple EOI (ID) to lodge application for each state separately.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


hey 

Why is that a better option and is it even allowed to do that? Won't it show up as duplicate entries in their system?

Anyone done this before?

I already have the same eoi id for both 491 and 190. 

Thanks for your responses man!!


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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> That means create multiple EOI (ID) to lodge application for each state separately.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


Hey 

Would it be a good option to choose south Australia over victoria for 190? 

And in 491 if I get VIC I can work in Melbourne as well right?


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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

And now I just noticed. .

491 for VIC needs a job offer too? 

https://liveinmelbourne.vic.gov.au/migrate/skilled-migration-visas/491

All applicants who wish to apply for Victorian nomination for the Skilled Work Regional (Provisional) (subclass 491) visa must provide evidence of a current offer of employment in a position located in a designated regional area of Victoria (as defined by the Department of Home Affairs).


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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

ok found that for visa 190 i can stay in melbourne . .

https://liveinmelbourne.vic.gov.au/migrate/skilled-visa-faqs : 
Yes, Skilled Nominated visa (subclass 190) holders can live and work anywhere in Victoria including Melbourne.

And for visa 190 the job offer requirements are even vaguer;
https://liveinmelbourne.vic.gov.au/...ion-visas/skilled-nominated-visa-subclass-190

*Q:**Do I need a job offer if I am NOT ALREADY IN AUSTRALIA?*

You will need to provide evidence of a genuine Victorian job offer if:

you are currently living in another Australian state; or
you are an international graduate and it is a requirement for your occupation on the Visa Nomination Occupation List for Graduates.

To demonstrate evidence of a genuine job offer, you are required to provide:

a Confirmation of Employment Statement;
a signed contract/ letter of offer which includes your employer’s Australian Business Number (ABN)external link and contact details;
an official position description from your employer outlining your main tasks and duties.
The current employment offer must be in the nominated occupation for permanent (not casual) work, for at least 20 hours per week, and for at least six continuous months.

Should our office not be satisfied with the genuine nature of the job offer, or that the offer of employment was not obtained through a merit-based recruitment process, we may request further documentation to support the application. This may include discussing the offer of employment with your employer.

*And for visa 491 Melbourne is not allowed *

The visa validity period is 5 years. Conditions, namely 8579 will be imposed which will enforce the government’s intentions that visa holders live, work and study only in regional areas. Visa holders may move between regional areas. *Regional areas are defined as any area excluding Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane*. Important change: Perth and Gold Coast are classified as regional areas. You may work in any occupation and for any employer in line with the work and residence conditions attached to your visa.


*And job offer requirements for VISA 491 *
https://liveinmelbourne.vic.gov.au/migrate/skilled-migration-visas/491

Offer of employment
All applicants who wish to apply for Victorian nomination for the Skilled Work Regional (Provisional) (subclass 491) visa must provide evidence of a current offer of employment in a position located in a designated regional area of Victoria (as defined by the Department of Home Affairs).

To demonstrate you have a current employment offer, you are required to provide:

A Confirmation of Employment Statement
A signed contract / letter of offer which includes your employer’s Australian Business Number (ABN) and contact detailsexternal link;
An official position description from your employer outlining your main tasks and duties.
The employment offer must be in your nominated occupation and must be for full time work for a period of at least 12 months. We will accept offers of non-ongoing employment. Full time work is defined as 38 hours per week.

You must provide sufficient information and evidence to demonstrate that:

There is a genuine need for the position within the business; and
The business is active/ operating for at least two years in a designated regional area of Victoria and is committed to employing you.
Should our office not be satisfied with the genuine nature of the job offer, or that the offer of employment was not obtained through a merit-based recruitment process, we may request further documentation to support the application. This may include discussing the offer of employment with your employer.

*Feels like 491 is really not worth it! *


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> hey
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because it doesn't freeze your EOI for remaining states once you get invited from one state. Yes it would show up as duplicate and they don't care about it. 

Almost all people applying for multiple states do this. So that if it's not your intended state then you can wait 60 days or even after that you can still receive the invite from other and apply new visa application. 

So it's your choice in the end, I can't force you. 

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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> Hey
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SA is easier to get invited as compared to VIC if you are able to lodge their state application in the early days. Fastest fingers first. 

Nope. You cannot work with 491 in Melbourne as its major city while 491 is for regional area. So you must live and work in regional. Regional areas for each state has its own postal code so think wisely about this.

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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> ok found that for visa 190 i can stay in melbourne . .
> 
> https://liveinmelbourne.vic.gov.au/migrate/skilled-visa-faqs :
> Yes, Skilled Nominated visa (subclass 190) holders can live and work anywhere in Victoria including Melbourne.
> ...


Yes, that's why I said think wisely. 491 is tricky and may not worth it if you are looking for quick path to PR. 190 is harder to get so choose whatever works for you 

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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

mail2notif said:


> Yes, that's why I said think wisely. 491 is tricky and may not worth it if you are looking for quick path to PR. 190 is harder to get so choose whatever works for you
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


Got it! 

But I still have a doubt ; 

*Q : Do I need a job offer if I am NOT ALREADY IN AUSTRALIA?*

https://liveinmelbourne.vic.gov.au/m...a-subclass-190

This link says I need an offer if I am already in Australia, but what if I am not? 

And you're basically suggesting I make multiple EOI IDs for VISA 190 for SA and any others states I want to try for.

My score is 
visa 189 - 80
visa 190 - 85 

So I guess no chance for 189, but 190 I can hope for something in 2-3months.


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> Got it!
> 
> But I still have a doubt ;
> 
> ...


For offshore job offer isn't needed. Yes you lodge multiple separate EOIs for 190&491 for each state. Such that 2 for SA 2 for VIC and so on. 

189 yes very less chances while for 190 it's just luck. Good luck. 

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## invader992 (Oct 23, 2018)

Hey guys i had a query regarding 491.According to my understanding after reading on their websites, i saw some states only want their own state graduates to apply. for eg QLD. they say u need to be either QLD graduate or working in QLD etc.

So people who are in victoria, they cannot apply 491 except for Victoria.


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

invader992 said:


> Hey guys i had a query regarding 491.According to my understanding after reading on their websites, i saw some states only want their own state graduates to apply. for eg QLD. they say u need to be either QLD graduate or working in QLD etc.
> 
> 
> 
> So people who are in victoria, they cannot apply 491 except for Victoria.


That's the case for onshore people who are already in Australia. 

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## David fish (Jan 30, 2019)

Here's some new mind boggling rules for NSW 190 visa applications.

Firstly its not clear if 190 holders in NSW can live in sydney or not, and then they have additional requirements for some occupations like mine ICT security 262112

You should already have a year in NSW!!! What!

Some occupations on the NSW 190 Priority Occupation List are now subject to an additional requirement for nomination by NSW.

The additional requirement for these occupations is to be living in NSW, and to have been employed in NSW for at least one year, in the nominated occupation.

These occupations are indicated on the NSW 190 Priority Skilled Occupation List.​
And it doesn't say anything for offshore applications, so can I apply for 190 NSW from outside australia and can I then work in sydney if I get it?


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## mail2notif (Nov 16, 2018)

David fish said:


> Here's some new mind boggling rules for NSW 190 visa applications.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That means offshore are not eligible in that job code NSW is only interested and sponsoring who are already in NSW working and living for 1 year. They can work anywhere in NSW including Sydney. 



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## Jelly11 (May 23, 2019)

David fish said:


> *Firstly its not clear if 190 holders in NSW can live in sydney or not*, and then they have additional requirements for some occupations like mine ICT security 262112


What? Of course they can live in Sydney. It's in NSW.


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## isharawlc93 (9 mo ago)

Can we lodge EOI for both 491 and 190 at the same time (Victoria)? Will it be disadvantage?


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## nimkaran (Jan 27, 2021)

Hi,
I need to clarify on NSW nomination.

My sister has recieved invitation for 491.
She had applied for 190 on the same day. Is there any possibility to get invited for 190 as well?


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## RDStranger (Oct 31, 2021)

nimkaran said:


> Hi,
> I need to clarify on NSW nomination.
> 
> My sister has recieved invitation for 491.
> She had applied for 190 on the same day. Is there any possibility to get invited for 190 as well?


Your question is very vague. Check NSW eligibility requirements carefully for the occupation.


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