# How friendly are the Spanish toward foreigners?



## cbhcm

I just noticed an article in the LA Times about how the Spanish government is considering offering some sort of residence to anyone who buys a house worth at least $200,000. Not clear if it will ever happen, or if I could convince my wife to move to Spain, but just in case, I wondered how friendly and safe it was for foreigners.

I traveled in Spain 25 years ago as a tourist, and remember the Spanish to be a bit frosty if not outright mean to tourists. At the time, I didn't blame them. They were constantly over-run with pale-skinned tourists, and the British papers had regular features on "holiday makers" run amok in Spain, infuriating the locals.

I wondered what's it like now. In particular, what is their view of Asians? I am American, but my wife is from Vietnam, and our daughter is (naturally) mixed. With the ongoing economic crisis, high unemployment, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if foreigners are not the most super popular people in Spain, and could even be in some danger if they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong riot.

Are some parts of Spain more friendly to outsiders than others? Is it better to be in a region with already lots of expats, or better in a region where the expat load is lighter?


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## jp1

I am going to guess you will get lots of different answers based on peoples personal experiences.

However, I honestly don't think you will have any problems, Spain and it's people are not outwardly racist. Someone being attacked in the streets because they are a foreigner can occur anywhere in this world and I don't think Spain is any worse than other European countries. 

I can only contrast Spain in relation to the UK but what I can say is that Spain is certainly a more xenophobic country that the UK. So it puts if own people first, and you may experience less helpful people in local government/police etc because you are a foreigner. That is what I believe would be the most obvious form of discrimination you will face.

But being attacked in the street because you are Asian is unlikely.


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## tarot650

Are some parts of Spain more friendly to outsiders than others? Is it better to be in a region with already lots of expats, or better in a region where the expat load is lighter?[/QUOTE]

In my honest opinion the villages inland from the Costa Del Sol accept Brits more than the coast.We lived on the coast for 7 !/2 years and in that time it never really felt like home.Everywhere you looked from Estepona to Torremolinos.British bars,British supermarkets,car dealers.You name it you will find it down on the costa but for a lot of Brits this is what they want.British way of life but in Spain.Havn't got the decency to learn Spanish or even try and speak it.We now live in a smallish Spanish village where we have been for over 11 1/2 years and when we came here there was one English family.At first it did take the Spanish some time to get used to us but one day we got an invitation to a Spanish wedding then we both realised that we had been accepted into the community.Do we ever regret moving inland do we bloody hell best thing we ever did but it's not for everybody.Horses for courses..What suits one doesn't suit another.


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## Lolito

I could ask the same questions (and more!) about America... 

... but I won't.


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## Overandout

jp1 said:


> I am going to guess you will get lots of different answers based on peoples personal experiences.
> 
> However, I honestly don't think you will have any problems, Spain and it's people are not outwardly racist. Someone being attacked in the streets because they are a foreigner can occur anywhere in this world and I don't think Spain is any worse than other European countries.
> 
> I can only contrast Spain in relation to the UK but what I can say is that Spain is certainly a more xenophobic country that the UK. So it puts if own people first, and you may experience less helpful people in local government/police etc because you are a foreigner. That is what I believe would be the most obvious form of discrimination you will face.
> 
> But being attacked in the street because you are Asian is unlikely.


I agree largely with jp 1, certainly in that you'll get some veried replies!

My experience is certainly that Spain is quite Xenophobic, and that this has got worse over the last few years. As with everything in Spain, the economic crisis is to blame! This will probably be the most noteable form of discrimination you would notice, BUT....

I don't agree that Spain is not outwardly racist. Compared to the UK it is still quite some way behind in terms of "political correctness" and whilst some of the forms of "racism" are quite light, bordering on only "PCism" (for example, the fact that TV comedies still use race as a topic of humour in a way which would be intolerable in the UK), others are rather more offensive (for example, it is not unusual to hear comments shouted at the TVs in public bars when a football match is being broadcast that would have you arrested in the UK).

This said, being physically attacked due to a race issue is indeed pretty rare and that's not really the point being made. 

In general, the Spanish are friendy to foreigners, especially those who want to spend their money here! Just don't expect such friendly treatement when you want to exercise any rights!


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## Guest

Every day is so different it's a hard one to call.

I've felt that on many occasions I have encountered Xenophobia but it would be unfair not to say that I also have met some very nice friendly people.

Xenophobia most certainly exists within Government bodies from my experience. No question. 

Will you get stabbed as a foreigner walking down the street ? Doubt it. One thing I have NOT felt since living here is intimidated. 

The economic situation certainly doesn't help as most locals will think you are here working and therefore taking jobs away from the locals. My partner has experienced this on a few occasions. Even when she explains that her job is quite technical and not many Spanish are qualified to do it they don't seem to really care.

She is also of Asian descent and is more likely to get asked for her phone number rather than receive bad manners for being foreign. Don't know if you'd see that as a positive or a negative !

Once you learn the language (thee single most important thing for you to do) then you are more than half way there to being accepted. 

I can also recommend Girona as a beautiful part of the Country. 

Danny


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## kalohi

I have an American friend here who is half Japanese half white, and she is routinely called "la china". Spaniards have no problem refering to each other using some outstanding characteristic (el canijo, el cojo, el viejo...I even had a neighbor who everyone called "la guarra") and they don't seem to take offense. So they do that with foreigners too - I'm "la americana" to everyone here in my town. Anyway, aside from being called "la china", my friend is not singled out in any way and has had no trouble making Spanish friends. That has been my experience too. 

I wouldn't worry about physical violence. I am_ much _more nervous about that when I am in the States.


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## 90199

I live on the small island of El Hierro, we are two of the four English residents. The local people are extremely friendly. There aren't any people from the U.S.A. residing here, however I imagine they would be made very welcome too.

Also there is very little crime here, cars are left with the keys in the ignition!


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## baldilocks

In my four+ years here in a village (pop 5,000) in Andalucía, I have found absolutely NO xenophobia, anger, intimidation, etc... THey are wonderfully warm, generous and friendly people.

Because so many people and families are interconnected and have the same first (and, often, other names) nicknames are very common and most often used in many cases. If you are darker skinned you may get called 'negra' or '*****' but there is nothing racial about it since they would say the same to another Spanish who is darker skinned. We are known collectively by those who don't know our names as 'Los Ingleses', when SWMBO is Colombian and the suegra is Texan. There is a man with whom we are quite well acquainted who is known as 'chorizo manga' becasue his family were too poor to make chorizo with meat and stuffed their skins with pumpkin, he bears no resentment to those who are reminding him of his lowly birth.

So much depends on YOUR attitude. When we first arrived, I took the decision that whomever I met in the street, I would greet "Ola, bueno día" in my best Andalu' and I still do. This has been reflected by the number of people with whom we are acquainted and others whom we treat and are treated by as friends. I even use the same greeting to people that I know (or am sure) are not Spanish but are English, Dutch, German or... So often, they put their heads down, ignore me (as if they haven't heard) and rush past. The typically pig-ignorant attitude displayed by many foreigners and which gets them disliked. Why do they do it? Because they are terrified of getting caught in a conversation in Spanish which they don't and are ashamed of getting shown up for their failings.


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## Pesky Wesky

Overandout said:


> I agree largely with jp 1, certainly in that you'll get some veried replies!
> 
> My experience is certainly that Spain is quite Xenophobic, and that this has got worse over the last few years. As with everything in Spain, the economic crisis is to blame! This will probably be the most noteable form of discrimination you would notice, BUT....
> 
> I don't agree that Spain is not outwardly racist. Compared to the UK it is still quite some way behind in terms of "political correctness" and whilst some of the forms of "racism" are quite light, bordering on only "PCism" (for example, the fact that TV comedies still use race as a topic of humour in a way which would be intolerable in the UK), others are rather more offensive (for example, it is not unusual to hear comments shouted at the TVs in public bars when a football match is being broadcast that would have you arrested in the UK).
> 
> This said, being physically attacked due to a race issue is indeed pretty rare and that's not really the point being made.
> 
> In general, the Spanish are friendy to foreigners, especially those who want to spend their money here! Just don't expect such friendly treatement when you want to exercise any rights!


I agree with much that overandout has said. I find the people I have contact with to be fairly open minded, but still ready to follow a few stereotypes and not very PC at all. I have heard the occasional cricism of a nationality or type, usually against the South Americans.
I on the other hand have usually been on the receiving end of "positive racism" as a blue eyed, female, English speaker. I'm glad I haven't been beaten up or had insults hurled at me, but it makes you feel pretty sick anyway...


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## tonyinspain

Treat others as you expect to be treated i say 
Very rarely are the spanish abusive only in anger i have never in 9 yrs felt threatened by the the people they argue a lot and even when talking tend to shout at each other to the point of fisty cuffs but in the main 
Learn the lingo even hola goes a long way
Enjoy their culture
And remember your in their country respect their ways and laws 
And you will have a enjoyable sometime hard stay but it will be better than the hassle you get in the uk not stress free but stress less


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## bob_bob

Having spent time in America, worked there for a while I think you'll find most of Europe more racially tolerant, certainly than some parts of the States, we get perhaps to mingle more with different nationalities than a typical American does.

If you go to Spain and meet people half way you'll have no issues, if you come and constantly compare Spain with the USA you'll alienate yourself, lots of brits do this and like them you'll end up alone or living only with other brits.

Go and mix with the locals, brits and Spanish alike and you'll have a great time for sure.


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## XTreme

baldilocks said:


> The typically pig-ignorant attitude displayed by many foreigners and which gets them disliked. Why do they do it? Because they are terrified of getting caught in a conversation in Spanish which they don't and are ashamed of getting shown up for their failings.


On the money again Baldy!

The type of people who you refer to usually profess to have served in the Army, Navy, and RAF _simultaneously_, been captains of industry, been everywhere, done everything....blah, blah, blah.

Now they can't even take a dump without hiring the services of a translator.


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## XTreme

My experience is if you live a Brit lifestyle always out with other Brits then you'll be the one who creates the "them" and "us" barrier.

If you just live your life in a similar way to them, and don't behave like an *******.....then the fact that you have a Brit passport won't make the slightest bit of difference to the way that you're perceived.


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## baldilocks

XTreme said:


> Now they can't even take a dump without hiring the services of a translator.


or putting it on their Facebook! 

Diolch y fawr


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## Real Nightmare in Spain

cbhcm said:


> I just noticed an article in the LA Times about how the Spanish government is considering offering some sort of residence to anyone who buys a house worth at least $200,000. Not clear if it will ever happen, or if I could convince my wife to move to Spain, but just in case, I wondered how friendly and safe it was for foreigners.
> 
> I traveled in Spain 25 years ago as a tourist, and remember the Spanish to be a bit frosty if not outright mean to tourists. At the time, I didn't blame them. They were constantly over-run with pale-skinned tourists, and the British papers had regular features on "holiday makers" run amok in Spain, infuriating the locals.
> 
> I wondered what's it like now. In particular, what is their view of Asians?  I am American, but my wife is from Vietnam, and our daughter is (naturally) mixed. With the ongoing economic crisis, high unemployment, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if foreigners are not the most super popular people in Spain, and could even be in some danger if they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong riot.
> 
> Are some parts of Spain more friendly to outsiders than others? Is it better to be in a region with already lots of expats, or better in a region where the expat load is lighter?


They are NOT friendly.......unless, of course, they think that they can relieve you of money!


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## XTreme

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> They are NOT friendly.......unless, of course, they think that they can relieve you of money!


Any particular reason you think that?


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## jojo

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> They are NOT friendly.......unless, of course, they think that they can relieve you of money!


 I've not ever found that - on the contrary, as long as you smile, try to speak the language and are friendly they are great - even those grumpy folk on the check outs at Mercadona raise a smile if you're friendly!

As for relieving you of money.... Thats the Brits!!! I've come across so many con men Brits in Spain....... its shocking!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Sirtravelot

jojo said:


> I've not ever found that - on the contrary, as long as you smile, try to speak the language and are friendly they are great - even those grumpy folk on the check outs at Mercadona raise a smile if you're friendly!
> 
> As for relieving you of money.... Thats the Brits!!! I've come across so many con men Brits in Spain....... its shocking!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx



Why does this happen? Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky?


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## jojo

Sirtravelot said:


> Why does this happen? Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky?


I think its because Brits are used to charging more in the UK and when they get to Spain they dont want to reduce their income + they think that other Brits in spain will have the money and of course are going to be happier dealing with them cos they all speak the same language. I have to say that my OH would have sooner paid extra to have a workman who spoke the same language. We had many a row cos I would insist on using a spanish person for something rather than a Brit. My classic example was our swimming pool. British company quoted 3000€ for two weeks work. For the same repair, a Spanish company quoted 250€ and two days work - and did an excellent job!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## XTreme

Sirtravelot said:


> Why does this happen? Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky?


It's the desperation of the "Failed in Spain" Club.......combined with the lack of linguistic ability to stitch up anybody other than English speakers!


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## Real Nightmare in Spain

XTreme said:


> Any particular reason you think that?


How long have you got? On a local level they will give you a different price to the Spanish when you shop. The town halls view expats as cash cows and will tie you up in paperwork, even when you have already done it. They are inherently nosy to a point that I installed the most complex security system to monitor them. They give you advice then when you do what they suggest, they report you for doing it. They expect you to learn, (rightly) Spanish, when you do they decide to change dialect so you can't understand them. I employed them, wishing to build bridges and friendships and they lied, stole and gave me shoddy work. 
On an international level they have taken millions of Euros from expats and the European Union only to beg for more and plead that they are hard done to. The banks are black holes and the average Spaniard has enough money that if they pooled resources there would be no crisis is Spain. Estate agents, builders and solicitors work only for each other never for the client, usually leaving the client bankrupted and disolusioned. 
I know of lots of people who bought in Spain and either left, broken and broke or their relationship broke down. Many more fought and lost money to a very poor system that will not go against their own. I know people who bought property to have land grabbed, land not registered correctly and estate agents lie to sell anything to anyone. 
Before you say that I should have researched, I did for three and a half years, appeared on A Place in the Sun, with all the advice available to me and worked at my Spanish, but this didn't prepare me for life here. When property starts to move.....so will I. In the meantime, I will try to stop others making this mistake.///////you did ask.


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## jojo

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> How long have you got? On a local level they will give you a different price to the Spanish when you shop. The town halls view expats as cash cows and will tie you up in paperwork, even when you have already done it. They are inherently nosy to a point that I installed the most complex security system to monitor them. They give you advice then when you do what they suggest, they report you for doing it. They expect you to learn, (rightly) Spanish, when you do they decide to change dialect so you can't understand them. I employed them, wishing to build bridges and friendships and they lied, stole and gave me shoddy work.
> On an international level they have taken millions of Euros from expats and the European Union only to beg for more and plead that they are hard done to. The banks are black holes and the average Spaniard has enough money that if they pooled resources there would be no crisis is Spain. Estate agents, builders and solicitors work only for each other never for the client, usually leaving the client bankrupted and disolusioned.
> I know of lots of people who bought in Spain and either left, broken and broke or their relationship broke down. Many more fought and lost money to a very poor system that will not go against their own. I know people who bought property to have land grabbed, land not registered correctly and estate agents lie to sell anything to anyone.
> Before you say that I should have researched, I did for three and a half years, appeared on A Place in the Sun, with all the advice available to me and worked at my Spanish, but this didn't prepare me for life here. When property starts to move.....so will I. In the meantime, I will try to stop others making this mistake.///////you did ask.


hhhmmm, well I dont see one thing that suggests that the Spanish are out to "get the Brits" or dislike them. Thats simply how things are in Spain, especially if you expect things to be the same as they are in the UK!!?? Spain is known for its paperwork, constant changes and crazy rules and regs!!! They're no different with their own - as the video below shows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmiPOYPZ-fA

Jo xxx


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## XTreme

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> They are inherently nosy to a point that I installed the most complex security system to monitor them.


That's not exactly going to endear you to them really.

Imagine if you were in Britain and foreign immigrant neighbours set up cameras to monitor your behaviour.

You have every right to do it obviously, but it won't go down well.

As for your other points.....I've never experienced any of those things. And I live in a very rural isolated area where incomers are quite rare.


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## tarot650

Before you say that I should have researched, I did for three and a half years, appeared on A Place in the Sun, with all the advice available to me and worked at my Spanish, but this didn't prepare me for life here. When property starts to move.....so will I. In the meantime, I will try to stop others making this mistake.///////you did ask.[/QUOTE]

In my honest opinion A Place In The Sun is the biggest load of crap thats ever been on the box.People are being shown places that the presenters have not got a clue about and some of the rubbish that they come out with the mind boggles.Makes me want to choke on my olives when I hear terms like this will make a nice bed and breakfast or you will make a really nice income from the olives groves.How the bloody hell do they know they have never lived there.The only one true piece of information I have ever heard is when people were told if they buy inland they will get more for their money.At the end of the day nobody twisted our arm up our back and forced us to come and live in this country.Me and the other half have made mistakes and I am not going to deny it as when we came here there was not much research or forums to go on.Yes there are dodgy estate agents I could tell you stories that you would never believe in a month of Sundays but also there are good ones.As I said at the end of the day it's our decision to be here and nobody forced us.


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## kiwigser

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> How long have you got? On a local level they will give you a different price to the Spanish when you shop. The town halls view expats as cash cows and will tie you up in paperwork, even when you have already done it. They are inherently nosy to a point that I installed the most complex security system to monitor them. They give you advice then when you do what they suggest, they report you for doing it. They expect you to learn, (rightly) Spanish, when you do they decide to change dialect so you can't understand them. I employed them, wishing to build bridges and friendships and they lied, stole and gave me shoddy work.
> On an international level they have taken millions of Euros from expats and the European Union only to beg for more and plead that they are hard done to. The banks are black holes and the average Spaniard has enough money that if they pooled resources there would be no crisis is Spain. Estate agents, builders and solicitors work only for each other never for the client, usually leaving the client bankrupted and disolusioned.
> I know of lots of people who bought in Spain and either left, broken and broke or their relationship broke down. Many more fought and lost money to a very poor system that will not go against their own. I know people who bought property to have land grabbed, land not registered correctly and estate agents lie to sell anything to anyone.
> Before you say that I should have researched, I did for three and a half years, appeared on A Place in the Sun, with all the advice available to me and worked at my Spanish, but this didn't prepare me for life here. When property starts to move.....so will I. In the meantime, I will try to stop others making this mistake.///////you did ask.


Nice to see the Spanish forum gets the rants as well as NZ. We occasionally get the everything is wrong, the people, the shops, the whole country. "Its not my fault that I cannot settle" 

With regards Brits in Spain , we visited our friends out there, who incidentally love there life, Spain is now home. They took us to a Brit pub, real little England, for a quiz. One of the questions was about National Anthems, over half did not recognise the Spanish Anthem, just weeks after Spain had won the world cup!

One strange coincidence, there is a web site which locates the place on the opposite side of the globe 

Map Tunnelling Tool

Our Spanish friends address is almost opposite us in NZ.

And its summer here and the drought is starting, we need rain.


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## Guest

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> They expect you to learn, (rightly) Spanish, when you do they decide to change dialect so you can't understand them. .


I'm sorry to hear things have not gone well. But, this comment is pretty hard to understand. Not many people can change dialect. And if they do, Spanish is Spanish. Do you mean they switch to Galego or some other language? 

Pretty interesting thread. I have found that if you embrace the culture and become a fluent speaker of the language, that really helps.


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## wiggytheone

Bottom line on all this the only real nasty problems I have had here are the whining back stabbing its them not us EX Pats. Everyone, Spanish included has problems with the official system there is no getting away from it, and yes they do think that we have all the money (wonder where they got that impression from though) However the vast majority of people we have had dealings with are great. END


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## Real Nightmare in Spain

XTreme said:


> That's not exactly going to endear you to them really.
> 
> Imagine if you were in Britain and foreign immigrant neighbours set up cameras to monitor your behaviour.
> 
> You have every right to do it obviously, but it won't go down well.
> 
> As for your other points.....I've never experienced any of those things. And I live in a very rural isolated area where incomers are quite rare.



The only reason for the security system relates to mass trespass by builders, farmers and their goats, Police and kids. The kids threw stones and fruit at our house and cars, they 'moon' at us and swear. The Police were caught on camera pushing a gate that was the only thing between a house guest and him. A garden gate was stolen, a pool robot was stolen, a tile cutter was stolen and a bbq was moved to look a whilst I was out.
No real surprise I lock everything up and have now installed this system.....is it?.
Thankfully, they see the signs and at least stay their side of our fences.


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## baldilocks

Sirtravelot said:


> Why does this happen? Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky?


Many came here when there was no extradition treaty between Spain and the Uk, giving rise to the claim that there were more British criminals on the CdS than there were in British jails. Many of these were the old 'spiv' types. Then came the answer to their prayers "Time share" so they could rip people off under the guise of a legitimate business deal and the 'Time share tout' was born. However, time has moved on and they have been largely outlawed in that role so they moved into property development. 

M.O.: cosy up to some not overly bright but greedy alcalde. "Look guv'nor if you authorise building on that piece of land, we'll build a residential complex, nice layout, maybe a golf course, etc, sell the properties to some expats, then share the profits." Brit then scarpers with his (and sometimes much of the alcalde's) share, leaving the dumb alcalde to pick up the pieces.

I always warn people that they are more likely to be ripped off by a Brit than Spanish especially if they don't speak the lingo.


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## jojo

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> The only reason for the security system relates to mass trespass by builders, farmers and their goats, Police and kids. The kids threw stones and fruit at our house and cars, they 'moon' at us and swear. The Police were caught on camera pushing a gate that was the only thing between a house guest and him. A garden gate was stolen, a pool robot was stolen, a tile cutter was stolen and a bbq was moved to look a whilst I was out.
> No real surprise I lock everything up and have now installed this system.....is it?.
> Thankfully, they see the signs and at least stay their side of our fences.


Gosh, its unusual for people to behave like that without reason, Spanish or otherwise?!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> The only reason for the security system relates to mass trespass by builders, farmers and their goats, Police and kids. The kids threw stones and fruit at our house and cars, they 'moon' at us and swear. The Police were caught on camera pushing a gate that was the only thing between a house guest and him. A garden gate was stolen, a pool robot was stolen, a tile cutter was stolen and a bbq was moved to look a whilst I was out.
> No real surprise I lock everything up and have now installed this system.....is it?.
> Thankfully, they see the signs and at least stay their side of our fences.


Real Nightmare,
Well, that certainly does sound like a nightmare and not somewhere I'd choose to live. It's certainly not what I have encountered and I've been here for a long time, am married to a Spaniard and my daughter is Spanish too.
I have a neighbour who is pretty bloody minded. He reported us to the police when we were having work done on the house. He had however previously reported 2 other neighbours for the same and one of them is a policeman. People are sometimes just not nice.
There's a lot to be said for treating people the way you would expect to be treated, but maybe there's history in your case, a family feud, the ayuntamiento ripping someone off... It might be worth asking around in a friendly way.
To take up another thread in the conversation Brits being seen as having money... I think in some areas that's not surprising. Big residential areas were built on what was basically scrubland that was not providing any income. Modern houses with every modern convenience available (to the villagers eyes) were built and then they were sold to Brits and others no matter what price was put on them. To many Spaniards of course the Brits were seen as big spenders. All they did was spend, spend, spend!! And a great number of them, not all by any means, did it in a way that seemed arrogant and ridiculous. People came and planted gardens full of flowers that need constant watering and would wither and die when the owners went away. They employed Brit gardeners who didn't know anything about Spanish gradens. They wanted to go shopping at 3 in the afternoon, and called the Spanish lazy because they weren't open. They complained because the Spanish definition of bacon isn't the same as the British and called their food rubbish. They drank and drank and drank...
And Racism...
As I said before, I see more non PC practices than actual racism, but I'm not black, Muslim, Chinese and I'm an English speaker which carries a certain caché. Try being a Morrocan man, or an Ecuadorian woman, or a gypsy and I think you might find life different. Also, Spain doesn't have a long history of immigration from other countries (Senegal, Morroco, Algeria, Romanian etc) and whereas there are areas with more immigrants than others, there are not many where there are large numbers of "poorer" immigrants and most immigrants are first generation not third and fourth like the UK, so the situation is different - and one that might get a lot worse.


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## bluesaddict

As a spaniard that has lived both in England and in the U.S, I wouldn't say we are racists to foreigners, ask Afro Americans, Spanish, native Americans if they feel racism in their own country......about Brits, I have British friends here ( my kids go to a British school) and I find two kind of them. The ones that try to speak Spanish and try to socialize and the ones that think we all should speak English......can you imagine me going to The UK and saying that Brits are racist in the town hall or at the police station because they don't understand me when I address to them in Spanish?
I have a couple of Scots friends who learnt Spanish in three years, they left a couple of years ago. They both left crying at the airport.....

Just my two cents.

Come with an open mind, I would actually say that we are friendlier to people who don't speak our language than Americans or Brits.......

I hope you enjoy your stay


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## Sirtravelot

jojo said:


> I think its because Brits are used to charging more in the UK and when they get to Spain they dont want to reduce their income + they think that other Brits in spain will have the money and of course are going to be happier dealing with them cos they all speak the same language. I have to say that my OH would have sooner paid extra to have a workman who spoke the same language. We had many a row cos I would insist on using a spanish person for something rather than a Brit. My classic example was our swimming pool. British company quoted 3000€ for two weeks work. For the same repair, a Spanish company quoted 250€ and two days work - and did an excellent job!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx



Well, that is one CONSIDERABLE difference.



Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> How long have you got? On a local level they will give you a different price to the Spanish when you shop. The town halls view expats as cash cows and will tie you up in paperwork, even when you have already done it. They are inherently nosy to a point that I installed the most complex security system to monitor them. They give you advice then when you do what they suggest, they report you for doing it. They expect you to learn, (rightly) Spanish, when you do they decide to change dialect so you can't understand them. I employed them, wishing to build bridges and friendships and they lied, stole and gave me shoddy work.
> On an international level they have taken millions of Euros from expats and the European Union only to beg for more and plead that they are hard done to. The banks are black holes and the average Spaniard has enough money that if they pooled resources there would be no crisis is Spain. Estate agents, builders and solicitors work only for each other never for the client, usually leaving the client bankrupted and disolusioned.
> I know of lots of people who bought in Spain and either left, broken and broke or their relationship broke down. Many more fought and lost money to a very poor system that will not go against their own. I know people who bought property to have land grabbed, land not registered correctly and estate agents lie to sell anything to anyone.
> Before you say that I should have researched, I did for three and a half years, appeared on A Place in the Sun, with all the advice available to me and worked at my Spanish, but this didn't prepare me for life here. When property starts to move.....so will I. In the meantime, I will try to stop others making this mistake.///////you did ask.


May I just ask, how good is your Spanish?


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## bluesaddict

Real Nightmare in Spain said:


> How long have you got? On a local level they will give you a different price to the Spanish when you shop. The town halls view expats as cash cows and will tie you up in paperwork, even when you have already done it. They are inherently nosy to a point that I installed the most complex security system to monitor them. They give you advice then when you do what they suggest, they report you for doing it. They expect you to learn, (rightly) Spanish, when you do they decide to change dialect so you can't understand them. I employed them, wishing to build bridges and friendships and they lied, stole and gave me shoddy work.
> On an international level they have taken millions of Euros from expats and the European Union only to beg for more and plead that they are hard done to. The banks are black holes and the average Spaniard has enough money that if they pooled resources there would be no crisis is Spain. Estate agents, builders and solicitors work only for each other never for the client, usually leaving the client bankrupted and disolusioned.
> I know of lots of people who bought in Spain and either left, broken and broke or their relationship broke down. Many more fought and lost money to a very poor system that will not go against their own. I know people who bought property to have land grabbed, land not registered correctly and estate agents lie to sell anything to anyone.
> Before you say that I should have researched, I did for three and a half years, appeared on A Place in the Sun, with all the advice available to me and worked at my Spanish, but this didn't prepare me for life here. When property starts to move.....so will I. In the meantime, I will try to stop others making this mistake.///////you did ask.


I don't know what shops do you go to but where I shop everything has the price tag.....about the corruption, sad but true although I have to say that it hasn't been the average people, it has been our politicians ( which is worse). About having to learn rightly Spanish, that's not true. I'm sure it has happened to you ( I don't doubt of what you are saying) but I'm also sure that it has been something that has happened once or twice. If you live in Spain I'm sure you know that when we speak we don't make a difference between the letters "v" and "b", well I'll tell you that it happened to me people not understanding words like " visiting" because I pronounced the "v" as a "b".....talking about us spending millions, you should also count all the millions that we have spent in our hospitals with all the Brits coming here to use our public hospitals and having hips replaced and other surgery because you don't have those services.

By the way, someone said that when watching a football game has heard words that would send someone to jail in the UK. I would say that I've seen Brits in Ibiza whose behavior was to go to jail.......but they didn't.

I'm not sure if you are being fair with us, and you always have the freedom to leave......


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## XTreme

I came here in 2005........prior to that I spent 51 years in Britain. And during my time here I've met more genuine people, been made more welcome, and made more good friends than I ever did in all those years back in Britain.

However.....I will add that I never fitted in in Britain and always felt like a fish out of water. I came here and it immediately felt like I'd come home.....that this was where I was _meant_ to be.

I can't explain why that was because I'd never been to Spain in my life before, and had no idea what to expect. That was just the way it turned out.
My view is that the vast majority of people who come here from other countries (not just Britain) are not a good fit for Spain.....and vice versa. 

Spain is not going to change......why should it? After all, we're guests here.....the onus is on us. But to be perfectly honest, if you need to change in order to fit in.....then you're in the wrong place.
We haven't changed one damn thing in our lives (except get a donkey just after we got here) and we fit in fine. So it's the right place for us..........but that doesn't mean it will be for others though.


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## Pesky Wesky

bluesaddict said:


> As a spaniard that has lived both in England and in the U.S, I wouldn't say we are racists to foreigners, ask Afro Americans, Spanish, native Americans if they feel racism in their own country......about Brits, I have British friends here ( my kids go to a British school) and I find two kind of them. The ones that try to speak Spanish and try to socialize and the ones that think we all should speak English......can you imagine me going to The UK and saying that Brits are racist in the town hall or at the police station because they don't understand me when I address to them in Spanish?
> I have a couple of Scots friends who learnt Spanish in three years, they left a couple of years ago. They both left crying at the airport.....
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> Come with an open mind, I would actually say that we are friendlier to people who don't speak our language than Americans or Brits.......
> 
> I hope you enjoy your stay


Hi Bluesaddict,
I see you're a new member and you've posted twice, but I'd hate to see you get all worked up over this thread and not contribute to others where your knowledge could be really useful.
As I said before, I married a Spaniard, and I've been here for longer than I lived in the UK so I'm happy enough - as are most people on the forum. It's only logical that some people have not found their place here in Spain, and if people are unhappy well, they usually end up complaining about it. 
It has to be remembered that no country is perfect. However, most of us see Spain as a positive in our lives and are ready to learn more about it from people like you
PS I have a friend who plays in blues bands, usually with 
Ñaco Goñi y los Bluescavidas, and Stevie Zee. Do you know them?


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## baldilocks

Blues addict: It would help us all if you were to put more information about yourself in your profile such as where you are, etc


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## mrypg9

There's something about that 'A Place in the Sun' programme that I find deeply distasteful, although I can't quite put my finger on exactly what. It's a tad vulgar, imo....Imagine how we'd feel if a programme like that was shown on Bulgarian tv....'Come over and buy these lovely properties for a song....You won't have to mix with foreigners if you move onto this estate which is already 99% Bulgarian....Come and snap up these amazing bargains' and so on.
To me it smacks of the 'Spain as British colony' mentality....here come the guiris with cash...
On Question Time on BBC 1 last week a young woman was moaning about the Eastern European immigrants who have transformed her home town, Boston. I wonder what the Spanish locals think when they see guiris taking over their home towns, all the English and Irish bars and shops....

To answer the OP's question...since arriving here from Prague I am constantly surprised by the warmth and friendliness I encounter from local Spanish people. Our neighbour has just brought a huge bag of oranges, artichokes, avocados from their finca along with a bottle of a rather dubious-looking home-made spirit. Everyone we meet in the street and in the village greets us, everyone is helpful and wants to chat. I speak Spanish fluently and very badly, always say 'Disculpe mis errores' and it's so easy to get into conversations whilst walking the dog......A complete contrast with surly, uncommunicative Czechs. Now there's a bunch that view foreigners as cash machines.

I know a lot of Brits have had bad experiences with property purchase but in very many cases close investigation reveals naivety, willing to 'cut corners' to get a 'bargain', ignorance of correct planning procedures which is no excuse since imo if you're keen enough to buy a foreign property you should be keen enough to familiarise yourself with local planning rules and regulations. I have seen magnificent edifices constructed on land which is clearly designated rustica...Would you expect to be able to build a house in the Peak National Park in the UK?

The summer before last a group of shaven headed tattooed knuckledraggers came to our quiet village. They sat at one of our local cafes and proceeded to drink themselves senseless, with the usual accompaniment of loud and raucous shouting and liberal use of the f word. One of them got up from the table, threw up on the pavement, sat down again and resumed drinking.
A fine example of a certain type seen all too often but thankfully not in the majority. Makes you ashamed to be British. Tbh, I'm surprised people are so welcoming...


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## Sirtravelot

mrypg9 said:


> There's something about that 'A Place in the Sun' programme that I find deeply distasteful, although I can't quite put my finger on exactly what. It's a tad vulgar, imo....Imagine how we'd feel if a programme like that was shown on Bulgarian tv....'Come over and buy these lovely properties for a song....You won't have to mix with foreigners if you move onto this estate which is already 99% Bulgarian....Come and snap up these amazing bargains' and so on.
> To me it smacks of the 'Spain as British colony' mentality....here come the guiris with cash...
> On Question Time on BBC 1 last week a young woman was moaning about the Eastern European immigrants who have transformed her home town, Boston. I wonder what the Spanish locals think when they see guiris taking over their home towns, all the English and Irish bars and shops....
> 
> To answer the OP's question...since arriving here from Prague I am constantly surprised by the warmth and friendliness I encounter from local Spanish people. Our neighbour has just brought a huge bag of oranges, artichokes, avocados from their finca along with a bottle of a rather dubious-looking home-made spirit. Everyone we meet in the street and in the village greets us, everyone is helpful and wants to chat. I speak Spanish fluently and very badly, always say 'Disculpe mis errores' and it's so easy to get into conversations whilst walking the dog......A complete contrast with surly, uncommunicative Czechs. Now there's a bunch that view foreigners as cash machines.
> 
> I know a lot of Brits have had bad experiences with property purchase but in very many cases close investigation reveals naivety, willing to 'cut corners' to get a 'bargain', ignorance of correct planning procedures which is no excuse since imo if you're keen enough to buy a foreign property you should be keen enough to familiarise yourself with local planning rules and regulations. I have seen magnificent edifices constructed on land which is clearly designated rustica...Would you expect to be able to build a house in the Peak National Park in the UK?
> 
> The summer before last a group of shaven headed tattooed knuckledraggers came to our quiet village. They sat at one of our local cafes and proceeded to drink themselves senseless, with the usual accompaniment of loud and raucous shouting and liberal use of the f word. One of them got up from the table, threw up on the pavement, sat down again and resumed drinking.
> A fine example of a certain type seen all too often but thankfully not in the majority. Makes you ashamed to be British. Tbh, I'm surprised people are so welcoming...


I've always wondered why the British act like that abroad (not all, of course). Although Germans can get pretty crazy in Mallorca, this sort of behavior is often solely linked to the British. It also reminds me of how Americans seem to talk extra loud so that everyone hears that they have an American accent. :clap2:


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## Overandout

bluesaddict said:


> By the way, someone said that when watching a football game has heard words that would send someone to jail in the UK. I would say that I've seen Brits in Ibiza whose behavior was to go to jail.......but they didn't.
> 
> I'm not sure if you are being fair with us, and you always have the freedom to leave......


It was I who mentioned the football, which, unfortunately seems to bring out the worst of most cultures. I was thinking of a very recent specific example when one or two of a group watching a match saw a black player make what they considered to be a mistake, this was met by shouts of "mono de mierda", y monkey sounds shouted towards the TV in a public place.

Now I am not going to defend any "Brits" (hateful term by the way, but that's probably how you intended it to sound?) in Ibiza or anywhere else on the Spanish coastal resorts as they certainly do appear to attract the lower sections of our cultural range, but I think I am justified in saying that the "racist" reaction in a public place which here in Madrid did not cause so much as an awkward glance (except from me) would be met with a stronger reaction of disapproval in the UK.


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## Lolito

Uhm.... I think the problem is not with Spain or the Spanish people but with you, this is for the 'nightmare guy'. 

Here in my village, the other day, we bumped into an English couple, and we (politely) say Hello and How Are You as a form to introduce ourselves, they looked at us with horror and they kept walking. Mark being English said to me 'Leave it! It's not worth it' but me being Spanish I thought I had to say something to them and so I did say 'It won't kill you to say Hi back, we are just being polite' and they both looked back and said 'Who asked you to talk to us?' .

I was left speechless, however, in passing I did mention that to a couple of people in the village and they said they have been living in this village for 5 years, don't speak any Spanish and keep themselves to themselves. 

Fair enough if that is what you want to do. It is your life. Manners don't cost money. 

'A Place in the Sun' is just a fantasy program, almost Science Fiction. I like it and I watch it because it just makes me laugh when it features Spain. 

We are friendly with everybody, I don't think we are more racists than UK or USA people and if you make an effort, I am sure you will get on very well with pretty much everybody in Spain, no matter where they come from. 

Alienating yourself with heavy security system won't help. People don't go throwing stones or stealing things unless there is a story behind it. 

Finally, I am Spanish myself and the amount of paperwork I have to do almost every month to get things done in this country is just overwhelming, frustrating and tiring, apart from expensive. We are getting married soon and Mark's paperwork has been done and dusted long time ago, me on the other hand, I am still trying to sort out paperwork with the Town Hall, Registry Office, etc. arrghhh! 

In the shops, things cost the same when Mark goes shopping than when I go shopping. (...talk about paranoia!!...)

I have lived in the UK for 23 years and one thing I can say that I have lernt is that if you are nice to people, people are nice to you. It is just this simple. Really.


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## jojo

Lolito said:


> Uhm.... I think the problem is not with Spain or the Spanish people but with you, this is for the 'nightmare guy'.
> 
> Here in my village, the other day, we bumped into an English couple, and we (politely) say Hello and How Are You as a form to introduce ourselves, they looked at us with horror and they kept walking. Mark being English said to me 'Leave it! It's not worth it' but me being Spanish I thought I had to say something to them and so I did say 'It won't kill you to say Hi back, we are just being polite' and they both looked back and said 'Who asked you to talk to us?' .
> 
> I was left speechless, however, in passing I did mention that to a couple of people in the village and they said they have been living in this village for 5 years, don't speak any Spanish and keep themselves to themselves.
> 
> Fair enough if that is what you want to do. It is your life. Manners don't cost money.
> 
> 'A Place in the Sun' is just a fantasy program, almost Science Fiction. I like it and I watch it because it just makes me laugh when it features Spain.
> 
> We are friendly with everybody, I don't think we are more racists than UK or USA people and if you make an effort, I am sure you will get on very well with pretty much everybody in Spain, no matter where they come from.
> 
> Alienating yourself with heavy security system won't help. People don't go throwing stones or stealing things unless there is a story behind it.
> 
> Finally, I am Spanish myself and the amount of paperwork I have to do almost every month to get things done in this country is just overwhelming, frustrating and tiring, apart from expensive. We are getting married soon and Mark's paperwork has been done and dusted long time ago, me on the other hand, I am still trying to sort out paperwork with the Town Hall, Registry Office, etc. arrghhh!
> 
> In the shops, things cost the same when Mark goes shopping than when I go shopping. (...talk about paranoia!!...)
> 
> I have lived in the UK for 23 years and one thing I can say that I have lernt is that if you are nice to people, people are nice to you. It is just this simple. Really.



Well put! I've learnt in my life that people tend to mirror you. If you're nice, friendly, polite and smile then you get it back, just the same if you're grumpy, rude and miserable, you get that back too. But it has to start with YOU! And whatever nationality people are, they're all the same IMO, they will eventually respond. I work in a shop in a rough part of town in the UK (its full miserable b*******!!!) and I actually make it my mission when I'm serving customers to make even the grumpiest and rudest of people at least smile - and it works 99.9% of the time!!!!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks

jojo said:


> Well put! I've learnt in my life that people tend to mirror you. If you're nice, friendly, polite and smile then you get it back, just the same if you're grumpy, rude and miserable, you get that back too. But it has to start with YOU! And whatever nationality people are, they're all the same IMO, they will eventually respond. I work in a shop in a rough part of town in the UK (its full miserable b*******!!!) and I actually make it my mission when I'm serving customers to make even the grumpiest and rudest of people at least smile - and it works 99.9% of the time!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


My way is, after greeting, I ask them their names. The guy who runs the Correos here in the village is the most miserable grumpy unco-operative piece of caca, I have ever come across, or should I say, he was. I asked him his name - no more problems. It's kinda difficult to maintain a bloody minded attitude towards somebody who has just "Hola, Antonio, ¿Qué tal?" while he shakes your hand.


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## bob_bob

A place in the sun : Winter sun is running on UK TV now.

The presenter is Laura Hamilton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and she's absolutely blooming awful. She really pesters the poor punters she's dragging around, "Do you like it" before they're through the front door. Classic statement from her was when a punter said "I like it" and she replied "I guested you'd like it" which pretty much sums up the quality of the show.

However, Jasmine Harman.....ding dong


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## mrypg9

Sirtravelot said:


> . It also reminds me of how Americans seem to talk extra loud so that everyone hears that they have an American accent. :clap2:


I'm told that when travelling Canadians often display a maple leaf badge to let people know they're not Americans....

I was in Canada the night of Obama's victory in November 2008. An ecstatic tv commentator said 'Now we won't have to automatically boo the Yanks when we play them at hockey...'

But in my experience of the U.S. Americans are, like the Spanish I've met, amongst the politest and most helpful people on earth...well, New Yorkers, anyway.


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## tonyinspain

Yes ive never really had any probs here even the morocans are ok 
Africans are easy going work hard what can you say 
What i dont like about spain is their undenibly cruel ways with dogs me and my Oh was driving by a bar yesterday and this son of a pygmy kicked this pup into the road i hit the brakes and her that must be obeyed jump out gave him a few expletives and we are now owners of another pet
I now have 5 dogs 3 cats 
Im going to start a sanctuary 
But putting this aside theres good and bad in all people and the spanish are no different


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## Jumar

My husband´s approach is similar to that posted by Baldilocks. He can talk to anyone no matter what their nationality is. Our Spanish is limited, we don´t seem to get any further, but we always try to speak it and ask the Spanish to speak slowly (not in English).

We have many Spanish friends. Belonging to a Spanish orienteering club, we travel around Spain (and the rest of the world) and have friends in many parts of the country. We always volunteer to help at our local competitions, and have been asked by the Alicante region to help them and also by the Portuguese federation when they hosted the World Masters Orienteering. We are always willing to help.

My husband has also been to the local school so the 4 year olds could see a real "English" man.

We took some British friends to a local garage yesterday for a problem with their motorhome and they were charged 5 Euros.

This weekend we are off to Villena in Alicante for a competition and we will be speaking Spanglish with our friends who are desperate to learn English.

You get back what you put in!


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## Guest

I am always impressed when someone here enters a public space (bar, shop, restaurant, etc.) and says "hola" to everyone. Or, as I sit eating, a complete stranger passing by will say "buen provecho". People are sooooo much more social here than the states.

I am frequently asked "eres inglés?"... or "eres americano?"... I like to reply "soy estadounidense, nací en San Francisco"... it's fun here, always an adventure and I have never had a problem.

Like Jaws wrote: "you get back what you put in".


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## anles

Normally, I don't like to generalize but, in fact, I suppose we frequently share traits that we have picked up from our families or environment. Some must even be genetic because, although I lived here nearly all my life, I have a royalist streak that none of my Spanish friends or family can understand, they just think it's one of the strange little things that make me different. When I was still married, we moved about a bit before returning to our "hometown". The first place we went to was a small village in the province of Burgos (now quite famous thanks to Aquarius). My husband found them at first to be cold and unwelcoming (very different to the gallegos) whereas I am naturally reserved and found them to be polite and helpful. After a short time, we found out that most people just passed through and we weren't expected to stay, but when they found out we intended to stay for some time they really adopted us. Unfortunately, after three lovely years we had to move as they have a very strange tradition of giving children born there odd names and I wasn't prepared for my daughter to be named Olimpia! 
When I met foreigners through my previous job, and they asked me what people were like here, I would say... they are warm, welcoming and generous, quite likely to adopt you; the negative points are that they are quite forceful in their opinions and they will think you have no idea how to do anything, they are also very nosy, and I mean *very* *nosy*! But for me, the good outweighs the bad and most of my friends and acquaintances have duly been adopted by at least one family in their village. And as for those few who haven't...I tend to think... I wonder what's wrong with *them*. Maybe the questions should be: how friendly are foreigners to the Spanish?


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## Pesky Wesky

anles said:


> ... my friends and aquaintances have duly been adopted by at least one family in their village. And as for those few who haven't...I tend to think... I wonder what's wrong with *them*. Maybe the questions should be how friendly are foreigners to the Spanish?


Hahaha
That's a good point.
I do agree in general that you get what you put in, about life in general too, but *in general*. I went to welcome the family over the road when they moved in. They looked me up and down and turned their backs on me, but I tend to think they're just not very nice people.
I do hold by the idea that in some areas people declare themselves to be non racist because there are no immigrants living there, or just a few so they are a novelty and not perceived as a threat. 
And that some people have a long way to go in, for lack of another word, "PC" speech. Some of the jokes that are told, some of the comments that are made, are incredibly sexist and racist.
As I said before, we on the forum are for the most part white and English speaking which for some reason has some status. It's not the same story if you are south american, black and come in large numbers. Perhaps it's a big city thing, although i don't actually live in Madrid...


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## bluesaddict

Overandout said:


> It was I who mentioned the football, which, unfortunately seems to bring out the worst of most cultures. I was thinking of a very recent specific example when one or two of a group watching a match saw a black player make what they considered to be a mistake, this was met by shouts of "mono de mierda", y monkey sounds shouted towards the TV in a public place.
> 
> Now I am not going to defend any "Brits" (hateful term by the way, but that's probably how you intended it to sound?) in Ibiza or anywhere else on the Spanish coastal resorts as they certainly do appear to attract the lower sections of our cultural range, but I think I am justified in saying that the "racist" reaction in a public place which here in Madrid did not cause so much as an awkward glance (except from me) would be met with a stronger reaction of disapproval in the UK.


My apologies if the term Brit ofends you, I didn't want it to sound like that. I've seen so many times the term used ( Brit-awards, Brit-pop, Brit school, and so on) that I would have never thought that it could be offensive. About the "mono de mierda", yes it's disgusting but it's football we are talking, come on are you telling me that when you hear that in a british football field everybody stares at the ofender???


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## XTreme

anles said:


> Maybe the questions should be: how friendly are foreigners to the Spanish?


Interesting point.....I'll tell you an experience I had in a shopping mall in Murcia about 2 years ago.
I was walking round and desperately needed to visit the toilet. First person I saw was a guy around mid 50's, so I asked him if he could tell me where they were. It was in Spanish obviously because where I live the only English that's spoken is in our house.....so it's automatic to use Spanish once I go out.

Anyway I politely asked him for directions and he just looked at me with a look of utter revulsion (which I picked up on straight away) and just said....."I'm English.....I don't speak any of that!"
Those of you who know me here will know I have a really strong Welsh accent....but what you actually hear is the civilised cleaned up version. The really bad, gutteral, obscene version is only just under the surface.....so I replied to this guy.....
"O mush.....wezza [email protected] bogs [email protected] for a waz like init!"
He didn't understand a word but the look on his face was priceless!


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## XTreme

bluesaddict said:


> My apologies if the term Brit ofends you, I didn't want it to sound like that. I've seen so many times the term used ( Brit-awards, Brit-pop, Brit school, and so on) that I would have never thought that it could be offensive. About the "mono de mierda", yes it's disgusting but it's football we are talking, come on are you telling me that when you hear that in a british football field everybody stares at the ofender???


The term Brit is not offensive in any way.


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## baldilocks

Anles and PW, interesting. Now Anles says some people are very nosey, maybe they are, maybe they're not. PW says that when they went to welcome newcomers, they got the cold shoulder. Perhaps the newcomers were thinking that PW was being very nosey.

We live in a village. I was born in a village. SWMBO and her mother are Large town/capital city types and they tended to have the impression that people in the village are nosey. I don't (neither do they, now). Village and country people are interested in you, what you do, who you are, etc. etc. They are not being nosey. Within the village 90+% will know almost everybody else in the village, they grew up with them, went to school with them, went to ante/post-natal clinics, etc. They will be in and out of each other's houses, many even have keys. They, in general, are one big happy family. They share their pleasures and delights they will also commiserate with each other in their sadnesses. Once you are accepted, you will be incorporated into their extended family. 

If you are 'family', they will be there for you, help you, look after you, through thick and thin, when you're ill, they will get what you need from the shops, break your arm, they will be there to help you clean your house, cook a meal and sweep your bit of the street as well as their own. If they have a surplus of fruit and veg, if they have made treats asuch as roscos, or salchichones or chorizos, they'll be at the door with some offering for you. They will be first in the queue should (Heaven forbid) you have to have a wake, they will organise you while you are running around like a headless chicken. This latter point is a fact. Two ladies we know, a year after their arrival, the husband of one of them died - they hadn't a clue, especially as the only one who spoke Spanish was the deceased. The village (more of a hamlet) turned to, organised everything and made sure that the whole thing was done correctly. When they suggested that they might move back to UK, there was an uproar, there was no way that the villagers were letting them leave, they were, after all, 'family'. 

Don't forget if you are in a relatively small community, you MUST attend any wakes, if only to pop in and express your condolences. You don't need to attend the funeral itself, just the wake.

BTW, Anles - where are you, your profile doesn't say and it is very useful for the rest of if we know where people are.


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## bluesaddict

baldilocks said:


> Blues addict: It would help us all if you were to put more information about yourself in your profile such as where you are, etc


Wilco


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## baldilocks

XTreme said:


> The term Brit is not offensive in any way.


Noson Da
It depends on who one is referring to by the term 'Brit'. My only usage is to avoid offending the PC crowd by referring to each of the petty tribes individually when I am talking in general terms.


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## bluesaddict

XTreme said:


> The term Brit is not offensive in any way.


Thank you


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## bluesaddict

baldilocks said:


> Noson Da
> It depends on who one is referring to by the term 'Brit'. My only usage is to avoid offending the PC crowd by referring to each of the petty tribes individually when I am talking in general terms.


What's PC?


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## baldilocks

bluesaddict said:


> What's PC?


The Politically Correct mob that object strongly if I refer to the English when I am, perhaps including, the Scots, Welsh, etc.


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## bluesaddict

baldilocks said:


> The Politically Correct mob that object strongly if I refer to the English when I am, perhaps including, the Scots, Welsh, etc.


Ok, I'm learning....


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## anles

Pesky Wesky said:


> And that some people have a long way to go in, for lack of another word, "PC" speech. Some of the jokes that are told, some of the comments that are made, are incredibly sexist and racist.
> As I said before, we on the forum are for the most part white and English speaking which for some reason has some status. It's not the same story if you are south american, black and come in large numbers. Perhaps it's a big city thing, although i don't actually live in Madrid...


I agree with you totally. It's not just a big city thing, I live in a small city (well I would call it a town, but it does actually have the title of "ciudad") and it's not only the expats who make the distinction between expats and immigrants, although they don't use the same word, they tend to think of Africans, certain Asians and Latin Americans as immigrants, and in some way inferior, and northern Europeans as being somewhat better, especially in villages and even more so, amongst older people who had emigrated themselves when they were younger. A few years ago my youngest daughter took part in the carnival parade with a group of children who she was friendly with at the time, the float was organised by a voluntary group that worked with the children of immigrants helping them to adapt. Some of my acquaintances were shocked I had allowed her to take part so I had to point out that she was in fact the daughter of an immigrant. Although she didn't need help to adapt as she is half Spanish and was born here, it was a very good experience for her. 
Integration is difficult and some people have no desire to mix with other people who are different to themselves: fair enough, I think it's their loss but we can't force other people to see things our way. I can also understand why people get stereotyped (I'm a big fan of Asterix) but at the end of the day, we are all individuals. I met a lot of people during the 5 years I worked at an estate agency and many of them have become very good friends. I take part in an exchange group which was set up for English and Spanish people to practise each other's languages which I end up dragging most of my students to at some point and I now have a small group to practise French. I also run a second hand market on Sundays and I have made lots of great friends there too. My children say I'm a people collector  
I don't like any form of discrimination but on the other hand I think PC (another term I learnt of relatively recently) has gone to ridiculous extremes. However, in my own experience, I have heard more offensive attitudes from British people. I think this is more down to my own perception, though. I have found them to be much more ageist, less community spirited, less family orientated...quite strange on the whole but nonetheless, fascinating and my life is much richer thanks to the people in it.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

XTreme said:


> The term Brit is not offensive in any way.


I'd go along with that. When you say Brit you normally mean... Brit. don't you?


----------



## jojo

Justy as an aside really. Today at work we had the delivery arrive. My colleague went out to receive it and came back into the shop complaining that the driver was a useless article who wouldnt help and he was a "bloody foreigner" who he didnt understand. I went out to "help" and lo and behold the driver was spanish! I actually chatted to him in spanish and then a bit in English/spangish and he and I got the delivery off the lorry in record time - he said he was reacting to my grumpy colleague and didnt like him, so wouldnt help - but thought I was "a lovely lady"  !! Interestingly, he was in the UK because theres no work in Spain!

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> he said he was reacting to my grumpy colleague and didnt like him, so wouldnt help - but thought I was "a lovely lady"  !!
> 
> Jo xxx


You get what you put in, and you certainly give input jojo!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

anles said:


> I agree with you totally. It's not just a big city thing, I live in a small city (well I would call it a town, but it does actually have the title of "ciudad") and it's not only the expats who make the distinction between expats and immigrants, although they don't use the same word, they tend to think of Africans, certain Asians and Latin Americans as immigrants, and in some way inferior, and northern Europeans as being somewhat better, especially in villages and even more so, amongst older people who had emigrated themselves when they were younger. A few years ago my youngest daughter took part in the carnival parade with a group of children who she was friendly with at the time, the float was organised by a voluntary group that worked with the children of immigrants helping them to adapt. Some of my acquaintances were shocked I had allowed her to take part so I had to point out that she was in fact the daughter of an immigrant. Although she didn't need help to adapt as she is half Spanish and was born here, it was a very good experience for her.
> Integration is difficult and some people have no desire to mix with other people who are different to themselves: fair enough, I think it's their loss but we can't force other people to see things our way. I can also understand why people get stereotyped (I'm a big fan of Asterix) but at the end of the day, we are all individuals. I met a lot of people during the 5 years I worked at an estate agency and many of them have become very good friends. I take part in an exchange group which was set up for English and Spanish people to practise each other's languages which I end up dragging most of my students to at some point and I now have a small group to practise French. I also run a second hand market on Sundays and I have made lots of great friends there too. My children say I'm a people collector
> I don't like any form of discrimination but on the other hand I think PC (another term I learnt of relatively recently) has gone to ridiculous extremes. However, in my own experience, I have heard more offensive attitudes from British people. I think this is more down to my own perception, though. I have found them to be much more ageist, less community spirited, less family orientated...quite strange on the whole but nonetheless, fascinating and my life is much richer thanks to the people in it.


Lovely post! I know a few people collectors - great people!!
And a good example about your daughter being involved with the carnival parade.
But I don't understand the reference to Asterix...
I think you're probably right about PC. I know it's almost a dirty word to some people on the forum 'cos the UK has gone way over the top it seems. On the other hand it's barely arrived in Spain and still needs publicity...


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> You get what you put in, and you certainly give input jojo!!



It wasnt easy, the delivery was 17 cages of stuff - all very heavy. It was fffffrrreeezing outside and I had to count and check the stock before the cages could go inside

I told him I'd lived near Malaga and he joked that Malaga wasnt Spain, it was just home to British and Germans. He was impressed with my Spanish tho!!!

Jo xxx


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## anles

Pesky Wesky said:


> Lovely post! I know a few people collectors - great people!!
> And a good example about your daughter being involved with the carnival parade.
> But I don't understand the reference to Asterix...
> I think you're probably right about PC. I know it's almost a dirty word to some people on the forum 'cos the UK has gone way over the top it seems. On the other hand it's barely arrived in Spain and still needs publicity...


Have you never read Asterix? We have a huge collection. The newer ones are not so good, as the original writer died. Asterix travels to many countries and highlights the stereotypical view of them, in England the houses have numbers on because they all look the same, the Swiss are fanatical time keepers and nearly have a nervous breakdown when they have to break into a bank vault, the Spanish are extremely susceptible and dance flamenco all night long... maybe nowadays they aren't PC but I find them very funny. I think our idiosyncrasies are what make us unique and special. And we have to be able to laugh at ourselves as well as laugh with others, and why not, sometimes at the things they do and say.


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## baldilocks

anles said:


> Have you never read Asterix? We have a huge collection. The newer ones are not so good, as the original writer died. Asterix travels to many countries and highlights the stereotypical view of them, in England the houses have numbers on because they all look the same, the Swiss are fanatical time keepers and nearly have a nervous breakdown when they have to break into a bank vault, the Spanish are extremely susceptible and dance flamenco all night long... maybe nowadays they aren't PC but I find them very funny. I think our idiosyncrasies are what make us unique and special. And we have to be able to laugh at ourselves as well as laugh with others, and why not, sometimes at the things they do and say.


In my day it was TIn Tin!


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## jimenato

anles said:


> Have you never read Asterix? We have a huge collection. The newer ones are not so good, as the original writer died. Asterix travels to many countries and highlights the stereotypical view of them, in England the houses have numbers on because they all look the same, the Swiss are fanatical time keepers and nearly have a nervous breakdown when they have to break into a bank vault, the Spanish are extremely susceptible and dance flamenco all night long... maybe nowadays they aren't PC but I find them very funny. I think our idiosyncrasies are what make us unique and special. And we have to be able to laugh at ourselves as well as laugh with others, and why not, sometimes at the things they do and say.


Thanks for that. I thought the reference to Asterix was a bit random as well...


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## Pesky Wesky

anles said:


> Have you never read Asterix? We have a huge collection. The newer ones are not so good, as the original writer died. Asterix travels to many countries and highlights the stereotypical view of them, in England the houses have numbers on because they all look the same, the Swiss are fanatical time keepers and nearly have a nervous breakdown when they have to break into a bank vault, the Spanish are extremely susceptible and dance flamenco all night long... maybe nowadays they aren't PC but I find them very funny. I think our idiosyncrasies are what make us unique and special. And we have to be able to laugh at ourselves as well as laugh with others, and why not, sometimes at the things they do and say.


Ok, now I get it!


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## mrypg9

anles said:


> Have you never read Asterix? We have a huge collection. The newer ones are not so good, as the original writer died. Asterix travels to many countries and highlights the stereotypical view of them, in England the houses have numbers on because they all look the same, the Swiss are fanatical time keepers and nearly have a nervous breakdown when they have to break into a bank vault, the Spanish are extremely susceptible and dance flamenco all night long... maybe nowadays they aren't PC but I find them very funny. I think our idiosyncrasies are what make us unique and special. And we have to be able to laugh at ourselves as well as laugh with others, and why not, sometimes at the things they do and say.


I bought some Asterix comic books translated into Spanish to help my grandson with his Spanish A Levels. He loved them.

As you've been out of the UK for so long I doubt you've ever come across a tv series called 'Allo 'Allo'. It's my favourite, I have the series on DVD. At this point I should perhaps add that I also like Benny Hill, Les Dawson, 'Are You Being Served'' and the Carry On films. So now you have an insight into my sense of humour...or lack of, as I seem to remember PW commented some time ago.
'Allo 'Allo' is imo a hilarious comedy set in occupied France during the war. It has stereotyped British RAF officers, French people, Italians, Germans...it even has a comic Gestapo officer, Herr Flick and a gay German soldier, Lieutenant Gruber, who has a little pink tank. It is so non-pc I doubt it could be shown on tv now. I must admit I've had problems trying to explain to Polish and Czech friends that a comedy set in World War Two can be truly funny....
There is something quintessentially British about 'Allo 'Allo'. It takes as its undisputed premise that all foreigners are funny......because they're foreigners. There is in many Brits a feeling that we are somehow 'different', superior, even.. Maybe younger people don't share that attitude but an awful lot of older people do and bring it to Spain with them..
After all, there was that famous headline in the 1930s 'Times':
_'Thick fog in Channel: continent cut off'_.

Finally: the term 'pc' is imo a synonym for good manners, or should be. It's just not done to call people n*****s, y**s, p***s or whatever. But it has been taken too far, certainly in current anti-discrimination legislation, where it is the perception of the recipient and not the intention of the speaker/writer that counts in law. I do agree that things have gone too far and that's one reason I gave up my TUC equality committee work. Certain groups want something they cannot get by law: equal respect and acceptance. I'm happy to settle for tolerance.
I don't give a you-know-what if someone says my sexuality is 'sinful' or I should burn in hell. People have a right to their opinion, however awful. I do think that being buried up to the neck and stoned, the Sharia law punishment for lesbianism, deserves a mild protest, at the very least....As long as my rights in law are equal to everyone else's I'm content to let people think what they like, that's their right.


Mind you, I haven't managed yet to be a 'threat to civilised society', as some of the more bigoted evangelical groups claim we are.

But I'm working on it...there are areas which definitely need improvement.


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Mind you, I haven't managed yet to be a 'threat to civilised society', as some of the more bigoted evangelical groups claim we are.
> 
> But I'm working on it...there are areas which definitely need improvement.


Mary, like you, I would prefer to be considered a threat to UNcivilised society.

I think "'Allo 'Allo" like so much good humour (British type) was taking a laugh at the eccentricities of Brits as much as anybody else but that is the key to British humour that often goes over the heads of the nationals of other countries - we laugh at ourselves. The Germans seem to laugh at the misfortunes of others, the Japanese at the humiliation and degradation of others, the Americans are often too slow to catch on to humour without an idiot board being flashed up in front of the audience to tell them when to laugh even if it isn't funny (cheapo version, don't have an audience, just use canned laughter) - they even have to have somebody using a ghastly simulated Brit accent before "Open All Hours" to explain all the gags before it starts, the French? (there are those who say that the French have no sense of humour, how should I know? who am I to argue?)

As for myself, I always laugh at me, the stupid things I do, the fool I make of myself at times.

On the subject of PC, I think it has done the world a great disservice without achieving one iota of any antidiscriminatory worth. It all started with people like Mary threatening to burn their bras "Why should we be treated differentlly from men?" and, from then on, acts of chivalry went on the back burner. Women, used to be respected, honoured even, doors were opened for them and they had lots of privileges. But when they started ignoring the opened door with a sneer, things started really going downhill. What have they gained? Apart from a few feisty types who have pushed their way to the top in their careers, not a lot - they still don't have equal pay, equal opportunities, equal rights.

As for those who complain most about discrimination, they are mostly people of other races, cultures and religions who came to the UK because of its freedoms, and are the most bigotted of the lot and seek to stifle the biggest freedom of all - freedom of speech.

I'm glad I'm in Spain where there is still a semblance of realism.

OK now you can all rant at me - this is part of the free world that we live in! elsewhere I and some others might be put waist deep in a hole and be stoned.


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## jimenato

:boink::bolt::behindsofa:


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## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> On the subject of PC, I think it has done the world a great disservice without achieving one iota of any antidiscriminatory worth. It all started with people like Mary threatening to burn their bras "Why should we be treated differentlly from men?" and, from then on, acts of chivalry went on the back burner. Women, used to be respected, honoured even, doors were opened for them and they had lots of privileges. But when they started ignoring the opened door with a sneer, things started really going downhill. What have they gained? Apart from a few feisty types who have pushed their way to the top in their careers, not a lot - they still don't have equal pay, equal opportunities, equal rights.
> 
> As for those who complain most about discrimination, they are mostly people of other races, cultures and religions who came to the UK because of its freedoms, and are the most bigotted of the lot and seek to stifle the biggest freedom of all - freedom of speech.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Baldy...I have NEVER been a feminist. As for burning my bra....couldn't afford to in more senses than one
> Mind you, REbecca West once said that she didn't know what a feminist was, only that she was called one everytime she said or did something that differentiated her from a doormat.
> 
> What have women gained? Quite a lot, actually, although not from any feminist agitation, but from politicians of both genders. Equal -well, almost equal - pay springs to mind as well as equal treatment in many financial matters.
> Until Tony Blair adopted the Social Chapter of the EU which obliged the UK to bring in employment protection legislation, gays, the disabled, pregnant women and many others could be sacked and until the Goods and Services Act was brought into law Sandra and I,although civilly -most of the time -partnered could be refused a double room in a hotel.
> Yes, some minorities complain about discrimination, in some cases rightly so. These minorities such as hardline Islamists often wish to curb the liberties of others. I have spoken against this at many public occasions.
> 
> Methinks thou protesteth too much, Baldy..
> 
> As is your right.


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## Navas

One of these days I'd _really_ love to meet Baldi and Mary! I so enjoy reading your posts


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## mrypg9

Sorry, duplicate...


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## mrypg9

Navas said:


> One of these days I'd _really_ love to meet Baldi and Mary! I so enjoy reading your posts


Be careful what you wish for, Navas...We may be closer than you think

P.S.Where are you? Are you still in Cambridge?


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## Navas

mrypg9 said:


> Be careful what you wish for, Navas...We may be closer than you think
> 
> P.S.Where are you? Are you still in Cambridge?


Yes, still in Cambs. My heart and soul are in Andalucia though...


----------



## anles

mrypg9 said:


> As you've been out of the UK for so long I doubt you've ever come across a tv series called 'Allo 'Allo'. It's my favourite, I have the series on DVD. At this point I should perhaps add that I also like Benny Hill, Les Dawson, 'Are You Being Served'' and the Carry On films. So now you have an insight into my sense of humour...or lack of, as I seem to remember PW commented some time ago.
> 'Allo 'Allo' is imo a hilarious comedy set in occupied France during the war. It has stereotyped British RAF officers, French people, Italians, Germans...it even has a comic Gestapo officer, Herr Flick and a gay German soldier, Lieutenant Gruber, who has a little pink tank. It is so non-pc I doubt it could be shown on tv now. I must admit I've had problems trying to explain to Polish and Czech friends that a comedy set in World War Two can be truly funny....
> There is something quintessentially British about 'Allo 'Allo'. It takes as its undisputed premise that all foreigners are funny......because they're foreigners. There is in many Brits a feeling that we are somehow 'different', superior, even.. Maybe younger people don't share that attitude but an awful lot of older people do and bring it to Spain with them..
> After all, there was that famous headline in the 1930s 'Times':
> _'Thick fog in Channel: continent cut off'_.


I have never come across 'Allo 'Allo, but it sounds my sort of thing. One of my favourite books is "How to be an alien", a book written by George Mikes, in the 40s I think, a Hungarian immigrant. I do vaguely remember seeing a carry-on film about Henry the 8th but I most likely missed the funniest bits as I was about five at the time! I don't get Benny Hill, though but maybe it's cos I can't get past the annoying music. However, one of my students introduced me to some sketches by Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie which I think are brilliant. 
Once one of my friends asked how we said "¡Que aproveche!" in English. I replied, we don't, we pretend we haven't noticed they are eating. Our attitude to different things is amazing, even people's attitude to eating is different. I know there must be British people who enjoy cooking and eating but here, cooking for your family and friends is a labour of love and eating a meal is a very hedonistic experience. My uncle's partner told me she admired me because I cook every day for my family, twice a day... I was at a loss for words. I couldn't get my head round the idea of not having two family meals a day. Midday is especially important as it when we all get together and find out what's going on in each other's lives. At supper, we have something light, but we still have it together most nights.
Here in Galicia, people do eat a lot more than we do at home, but an important meal lasts for hours. Last week, some of us from the market had a meal together but I was the only English person there, in fact my Mexican friend and I were the only foreigners. We sat down at 3pm and I was the first to leave at 7pm as I wanted to take our dog for a long walk! But in Galicia, any reason is a good excuse to have a meal. End of term dinners, end of course dinners, Christmas dinners. I have done a couple of courses run by the unemployment office, so have two of my children and of course, at the end there is a dinner!


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## jimenato

Navas said:


> One of these days I'd _really_ love to meet Baldi and Mary! I so enjoy reading your posts


Navas - I've met Mary and Sandra several times - and you seriously would like to meet those two.

I would like to meet with several other people here too - jojo comes to mind and there are others.

I've never met Baldi but I think that would be memorable

We need a get-together


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## Navas

jimenato said:


> Navas - I've met Mary and Sandra several times - and you seriously would like to meet those two.
> 
> I would like to meet with several other people here too - jojo comes to mind and there are others.
> 
> I've never met Baldi but I think that would be memorable
> 
> We need a get-together


I seem to be good at going off-topic, but I have once been to Jimena, some years ago, to visit a friend who had lived there for many years. She moved to a small village somewhere in the hills and I've sadly lost touch with her in recent years. We stayed in El Anon.


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## baldilocks

Navas said:


> One of these days I'd _really_ love to meet Baldi and Mary! I so enjoy reading your posts


Mary?, Yes, but don't waste your time on me, I'm just a self-opinionated, boring old f*rt!

Navas, as for your going off topic, you're way behind in that race. In your avatar, who is the sweet but serious young thing in trenzas?


----------



## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> Navas - I've met Mary and Sandra several times - and you seriously would like to meet those two.
> 
> I would like to meet with several other people here too - jojo comes to mind and there are others.
> 
> I've never met Baldi but I think that would be memorable
> 
> We need a get-together


How kind!

Some years ago, Sandra introduced me to a new aquaintance of hers with the words 'I'd like you to meet Mary, she's nice'...then added 'Well, she's not, really, but I think you'll like her'....

Baldy is older than me but we are essentially of the same generation, a few years apart. We grew up with more or less the same background, the same experiences, the same values. I'm reading John Cole's memoirs -most of you won't remember him. He was a Guardian and then BBC political commentator in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, the time when I was most politically active. I've enjoyed reading about the Rhodesian UDI, the Heath Government and the miners, 
Wilson and what was then the Common Market. To most of you young things these events will be as remote as the Battle of Hastings, the repeal of the Corn Laws and the Boer War and in many ways they are...We have changed so much in so many ways since then and imo not really for the better. In that period of recent history politics was essentially about compromise, solution-finding. MacMillan, Wilson, Heath and Callaghan excelled at that vital art. When ideology crept in on both left and right, the tone changed. Ideologues can't compromise. Wilson said that having an ideology saved you from the bother of thinking...How true.

All of this is of course off topic. But life meanders, goes off on tangents which sometimes -not always - makes it a little more interesting.


----------



## anles

mrypg9 said:


> Finally: the term 'pc' is imo a synonym for good manners, or should be. It's just not done to call people n*****s, y**s, p***s or whatever. But it has been taken too far, certainly in current anti-discrimination legislation, where it is the perception of the recipient and not the intention of the speaker/writer that counts in law. I do agree that things have gone too far and that's one reason I gave up my TUC equality committee work. Certain groups want something they cannot get by law: equal respect and acceptance. I'm happy to settle for tolerance.
> I don't give a you-know-what if someone says my sexuality is 'sinful' or I should burn in hell. People have a right to their opinion, however awful. I do think that being buried up to the neck and stoned, the Sharia law punishment for lesbianism, deserves a mild protest, at the very least....As long as my rights in law are equal to everyone else's I'm content to let people think what they like, that's their right.
> 
> Mind you, I haven't managed yet to be a 'threat to civilised society', as some of the more bigoted evangelical groups claim we are.
> 
> But I'm working on it...there are areas which definitely need improvement.


I'm much more tolerant now than when I was younger, although it's not a word I like very much as it sounds a little condescending. I used to be a great defender of the underdog, until I realised that maybe my perception was equally bad. And in any case, when you grow up, all your energy is spent on trying to live your own life. I think being open-minded on most things enriches your life, but I still think a lot of opinions are unacceptable. Tolerance for me has never been about race, sexual preference or gender, it simply doesn't come into the equation. I think respect has to be earned and some practices are unacceptable. But in the first instance you do have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. One of my favourite expressions, I don't where the quote originally came from nor the exact words, is don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out. 
Sometimes things you say can be easily misinterpreted and when you write on a forum more so, as body language and facial expressions are a very important instrument in communication. Also, the more you get to know people the closer you become and you can communicate at a deeper level. I find my English friends have a sense of humour that is much more like my own (that's obviously inborn, too) we can make outrageous jokes and remarks but if I said the same sort of things to my Spanish friends they would be hurt or mortified. My closest friends are two lesbian couples, one Spanish couple who have been my best friends for 28 years, before they were even together and the other an English couple who I have known since they moved here about 8 years ago. We had a meal together about 7 years ago as I wanted to introduce them to each other and then we went clubbing, something I usually don't do, but I was still needed to translate at that stage. When we got out the car, one of my English friends said to me, "Right, it looks like you're the only one who's going to pull tonight" (as we were going to some gay clubs there wasn't much hope from my point of view); my Spanish friends were horrified at what they had said, but I thought it was funny. However, at first they would make "in" jokes that I would never have dared to say for fear of causing offence. They frequently use words, especially when we are with two other couples who are gay men, that I thought to be highly offensive. Now, I can make those kind of jokes with them, but I would never use that sort of language with other people and I have never heard any of my "straight" friends of any nationality use it. Sometimes when I go to a party with my friends, one of my children will say to the other..."We have to get our own supper, Mum's going to one of her 'Gay Pride thingies'". If someone else heard them, they might think they were intolerant. But nothing further from the truth, it's just that everything is a part of who we are. If I hadn't moved to Spain when I was a child, got married at 18, had four children, split up with my husband, worked for an estate agency (a dirty secret I have kept on here due to the general opinion), been a teacher for 20 odd years, I wouldn't be the person I am today and that's just a very small part of my life.


----------



## jojo

jimenato said:


> Navas - I've met Mary and Sandra several times - and you seriously would like to meet those two.
> 
> I would like to meet with several other people here too - jojo comes to mind and there are others.
> 
> I've never met Baldi but I think that would be memorable
> 
> We need a get-together


 I'm hopefully back in Spain in a week or two and I am going to do my best to visit as many people on here as I can!!!! I've met Mary and she's lovely - She'll hate me for saying this, but she *IS *Ann Widdecombe (altho a better looking version!!)  and Sandra is beautiful!!!!!!...... and Jimento, I'd love to meet you and yours too - I promise not to smoke in your presence . I'm also going to try to get over to Javea and dig out xabiachica!!!!!!!!!! and Baldi - we must somehow try to meet him!!!!! If only to slap him round the head with a wet fish!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Navas

baldilocks said:


> Mary?, Yes, but don't waste your time on me, I'm just a self-opinionated, boring old f*rt!


Haha! I have decided that it's one of the benefits of being slightly older. You've earned the right to have, let's say, strong opinions on a topic. I'd rather know people who have opinions on what they see going on around them, whether it's social, political or environmental, than those who have no interest, especially if their opinions also make sense to me 



baldilocks said:


> Navas, as for your going off topic, you're way behind in that race. In your avatar, who is the sweet but serious young thing in trenzas?


That's me, a very very long time ago! I think I was about 6. I still have the fringe!


----------



## mrypg9

anles said:


> I'm much more tolerant now than when I was younger, although it's not a word I like very much as it sounds a little condescending. I used to be a great defender of the underdog, until I realised that maybe my perception was equally bad. And in any case, when you grow up, all your energy is spent on trying to live your own life. I think being open-minded on most things enriches your life, but I still think a lot of opinions are unacceptable. Tolerance for me has never been about race, sexual preference or gender, it simply doesn't come into the equation. I think respect has to be earned and some practices are unacceptable. But in the first instance you do have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. One of my favourite expressions, I don't where the quote originally came from nor the exact words, is don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
> Sometimes things you say can be easily misinterpreted and when you write on a forum more so, as body language and facial expressions are a very important instrument in communication. Also, the more you get to know people the closer you become and you can communicate at a deeper level. I find my English friends have a sense of humour that is much more like my own (that's obviously inborn, too) we can make outrageous jokes and remarks but if I said the same sort of things to my Spanish friends they would be hurt or mortified. My closest friends are two lesbian couples, one Spanish couple who have been my best friends for 28 years, before they were even together and the other an English couple who I have known since they moved here about 8 years ago. We had a meal together about 7 years ago as I wanted to introduce them to each other and then we went clubbing, something I usually don't do, but I was still needed to translate at that stage. When we got out the car, one of my English friends said to me, "Right, it looks like you're the only one who's going to pull tonight" (as we were going to some gay clubs there wasn't much hope from my point of view); my Spanish friends were horrified at what they had said, but I thought it was funny. However, at first they would make "in" jokes that I would never have dared to say for fear of causing offence. They frequently use words, especially when we are with two other couples who are gay men, that I thought to be highly offensive. Now, I can make those kind of jokes with them, but I would never use that sort of language with other people and I have never heard any of my "straight" friends of any nationality use it. Sometimes when I go to a party with my friends, one of my children will say to the other..."We have to get our own supper, Mum's going to one of her 'Gay Pride thingies'". If someone else heard them, they might think they were intolerant. But nothing further from the truth, it's just that everything is a part of who we are. If I hadn't moved to Spain when I was a child, got married at 18, had four children, split up with my husband, worked for an estate agency (a dirty secret I have kept on here due to the general opinion), been a teacher for 20 odd years, I wouldn't be the person I am today and that's just a very small part of my life.


I think the word'tolerate' has had a bad press, largely because of the vociferous demands of some minority groups for full equality, which of course is an impossibility. My philosophical/political idol and guru, John Gray, uses the phrase 'radical indifference' to describe a person with zero interest in or opinions on a topic, apart from the application of fairness and decency. I'm radically indifferent on the question of republic v monarchy, for example. 

When I'm with gay friends, usually male, I use terms I wouldn't otherwise. I'll often call a friend 'An old queen', for example. Some 'radical' gays use language such as 'queer' or '****' to describe themselves, just as some blacks call themselves '*****z'. As they see it, they are appropriating the language of their 'oppressors'. I'm not into that, I just like having a laugh and gay men are great at sending themselves up.

When I was teaching we had a lovely Jamaican cleaning lady, Veronica. One day I came back to my room after classes had ended to find my battered briefcase. 
'Has anyone seen an old black bag?' I enquired'
Quick as a flash and with a broad Jamaican accent came the reply 'You no talk about Veronica like that!'. Everyone around just split their sides laughing. To me, that's equality.
If the current anti-discrimination laws had been in force when I was teaching, half of our staff would have been before an Employment Tribunal, me included. Practically every day I was called a daft old bat, told I was losing my marbles, stuff like that. All in good humour .....and possibly true.

I think that more toleration is needed...to me, toleration means 'I have the right to disapprove but not to hurt or offend or discriminate against you in any way'. 
But the right to disapprove seems to be in question these days.

A few years ago I made a speech at TUC where I deplored some Islamic cultural practices. I was told before the speech that I would be seen as a 'cultural imperialist'. So I put that in my speech and said if being against female genital mutilation, honour killing and forced marriage made me a cultural imperialist then I would happily accept that label and wear it as a slogan on a T shirt. The delegates, mainly ordinary wotrking people, roared with approval. Left-wing friends were upset. 
More people need to speak out against things that are plainly not right and that imo is where 'pc' has gone badly wrong.


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## jimenato

As ypu specified female are we to assume that you approve of male genital mutilation?


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## XTreme

I ran into plenty of friendly Spanish this morning......


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## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> As ypu specified female are we to assume that you approve of male genital mutilation?




I know of no culture where such a practice is commonplace but were there one, I would stoutly campaign against it.

I must say that in my political life I have once or twice been accused of a kind of male genital mutilation.....


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## jimenato

mrypg9 said:


> I know of no culture where such a practice is commonplace but were there one, I would stoutly campaign against it.
> 
> I must say that in my political life I have once or twice been accused of a kind of male genital mutilation.....


Judaism.


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## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> When I was teaching we had a lovely Jamaican cleaning lady, Veronica. One day I came back to my room after classes had ended to find my battered briefcase.
> 'Has anyone seen an old black bag?' I enquired'
> Quick as a flash and with a broad Jamaican accent came the reply 'You no talk about Veronica like that!'. Everyone around just split their sides laughing. To me, that's equality.


Hahaha!
She had a sense of humour!!


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## baldilocks

jimenato said:


> Judaism.


and Islamism


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## Navas

baldilocks said:


> and Islamism


And also in Nigeria, as far as I know, not just among Muslims.


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## mrypg9

I realised that as soon as I posted. Difficult, that. Cirrcumcision isn't quite the same as fgm, though. As I understand it, without going into physical detail -and I'm female so can't speak from experience, never having had a Jewish or Muslim boyfriend when I was much much younger - it doesn't affect sexual performance or bring health risks and various complications.
Most circumcisions, certainly Jewish ones, are carried out in safe hygienic conditions by qualified persons, unlike fgm, which is often done by frightful old hags with no medical qualifications or sterilised medical equipment. 
Maiden Scotland knows far more about this than I as she lives in Egypt where, I was horrified to learn, it's commonplace...

Generally speaking, any kind of interference with the body -piercings, cosmetic surgery and the like - isn't something I approve of...although if I were younger, I'd fancy a discreet and artistic tattoo...


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## baldilocks

When I was born, it was quite often the norm for boys to have either their frenula cut or removed or be completely circumcised. In my class at school, there were, to my knowledge, only two who were either uncircumcised or had intact frenula. The reason declared was for hygiene purposes (but secretely to minimise sexual pleasure derived from manipulation of the frenulum and/or masturbation - "don't do that, you'll go blind!"). When I was in my 30s in hospital for a hernia op, there were, in the same ward, three men in their 70s having circumcision because they were having difficulties passing urine.

This of course is totally different from that for religious purposes.

With regard to female circumcision, it is estimated to affect some 82 million females in 28 countries in Africa alone. It was practiced also in some European countries as a cure for dementia, wantonness, masturbation, etc. It was known, centuries ago that females could experience sexual pleasure through contact with their clitoris and their (recently named) g-spot. (The reason the church always advocated the 'missionary position' to avoid penile contact with the 'g-spot') Many African countries and also others, attempt various forms of FGM as part of their male superiority suppression of the females - absolutely deplorable.


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## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> I were younger, I'd fancy a discreet and artistic tattoo...


Tell us more!


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## jimenato

mrypg9 said:


> I realised that as soon as I posted. Difficult, that. Cirrcumcision isn't quite the same as fgm, though. As I understand it, without going into physical detail -and I'm female so can't speak from experience, never having had a Jewish or Muslim boyfriend when I was much much younger - it doesn't affect sexual performance or bring health risks and various complications.
> Most circumcisions, certainly Jewish ones, are carried out in safe hygienic conditions by qualified persons, unlike fgm, which is often done by frightful old hags with no medical qualifications or sterilised medical equipment.
> Maiden Scotland knows far more about this than I as she lives in Egypt where, I was horrified to learn, it's commonplace...
> 
> Generally speaking, any kind of interference with the body -piercings, cosmetic surgery and the like - isn't something I approve of...although if I were younger, I'd fancy a discreet and artistic tattoo...


The perverts use their mouths to suck the blood from the mutilated penis



> The boy is the second New York area infant in recent years to die from complications related to the Orthodox Jewish ritual of metzitzah b'peh, during which "the mohel places his mouth on the freshly circumcised penis to draw blood away from the cut," according to the New York City Department of Heath.





> Another infant died in 2005 after contracting herpes from a rabbi who performed the procedure.


But it's all ok - it's done in the name of religion


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## Pesky Wesky

jimenato said:


> The perverts use their mouths to suck the blood from the mutilated penis
> 
> 
> yuck, yuck, YUCK
> 
> 
> But it's all ok - it's done in the name of religion


No more info required, Jimenato:tape::yuck::yuck::yuck::tape:


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## Angyles

I was only here a couple of weeks and my neighbour invited me to have paella at his house with his family and friends. Given that two weeks in a new country and the fact that I'd never needed to learn Spanish while living in the UK I was quite touched to receive such an invite as he doesn't speak any English. A few months later and my neighbour regularly calls in and often gives me honey, oranges etc. I cant wait to actually begin growing things so that I can return the hospitality. What I love is the fact he just chats away to me regardless if I understand everything. I never had that hospitality when I was in NY state!


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## baldilocks

Angyles said:


> I was only here a couple of weeks and my neighbour invited me to have paella at his house with his family and friends. Given that two weeks in a new country and the fact that I'd never needed to learn Spanish while living in the UK I was quite touched to receive such an invite as he doesn't speak any English. A few months later and my neighbour regularly calls in and often gives me honey, oranges etc. I cant wait to actually begin growing things so that I can return the hospitality. What I love is the fact he just chats away to me regardless if I understand everything. I never had that hospitality when I was in NY state!


Welcome to the real world of genuine people, where things are not just done for show. If you're worried about being able to repay them, find out if there is anything else you can do - not that they will expect anything. For example, we don't have a huerta so can't return the favour but we have a gas stove that has a thermostat (most Spanish stoves the oven is either on or off) so we make cakes, sweetbreads (often out of some of their own produce - zuccini bread, etc) etc.


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## Overandout

XTreme said:


> I ran into plenty of friendly Spanish this morning......


I take it that your DR had broken down and you were looking for a more reliable form of transport to get you home ?



Sorry, couldn't resist !


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## baldilocks

jimenato said:


> As ypu specified female are we to assume that you approve of male genital mutilation?


Depends on what you mean by the term. There are some who would include male circumcision under that heading or eunuchising but maybe that is a load of old b*lls. A 74 year old friend ours has just had to be circumcised and he can tell you that it is far from pleasant but then, neither was the problem he was experiencing whenever he wanted to pee.


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## kimuyen

mrypg9 said:


> I'm told that when travelling Canadians often display a maple leaf badge to let people know they're not Americans....
> 
> .


This is sad but true. My husband is Canadian, born and raised. Though he holds American citizenship, he always claims that he is a Canadian (now that he also holds an Irish citizenship, I wonder which side he will be taking). He does not think very highly of Americans. I doubt that most Canadians share the extreme view of my husband. This is to illustrate that there are personal views everywhere, politically correct or not, that do not apply to a larger population. And this personal view sometimes has nothing to do with race or social economic status (Canada vs. the US).


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## thrax

My Father was an American and for many years I loved visiting the States. But now it isn't the same. I know many Americans and all of them are wonderful people. But there are many others, especially in the so called bible belt, whom I wouldn't give the time of day to. My Father was a Mormon. Nuff said.


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## 213979

kimuyen said:


> This is sad but true. My husband is Canadian, born and raised. Though he holds American citizenship, he always claims that he is a Canadian (now that he also holds an Irish citizenship, I wonder which side he will be taking). He does not think very highly of Americans. I doubt that most Canadians share the extreme view of my husband. This is to illustrate that there are personal views everywhere, politically correct or not, that do not apply to a larger population. And this personal view sometimes has nothing to do with race or social economic status (Canada vs. the US).


Le sigh. Remind him, for me, that he does hold American citizenship. Therefore, he is "one of us." 

I say this after having lived in and studied Political Science in Canada. I wish I could find the issue of Macleans that talked about Canadian knee-jerk anti-Americanism.


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## kimuyen

elenetxu said:


> Le sigh. Remind him, for me, that he does hold American citizenship. Therefore, he is "one of us."
> 
> I say this after having lived in and studied Political Science in Canada. I wish I could find the issue of Macleans that talked about Canadian knee-jerk anti-Americanism.


Well, his favorite hockey team is an American team, the Bruins. I think he just has a love-hate relationship with America/Americans. I know it does not matter how imperfect your birth country is, it always holds a special place in your heart. I think it is true for him. And for many of us.


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## herman1996

> I was only here a couple of weeks and my neighbour invited me to have paella at his house with his family and friends. Given that two weeks in a new country and the fact that I'd never needed to learn Spanish while living in the UK I was quite touched to receive such an invite as he doesn't speak any English. A few months later and my neighbour regularly calls in and often gives me honey, oranges etc.


this is one of the thousands of stories. Mostly they are happy when you just be kind to them and try to speak their language.


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## Angyles

I'm really happy to say that after 1 year my Spanish has improved and I've now got some more friends to the original neighbours that first said hi


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## Ade_Slater

I would say very friendly - one of them went so far as to marry me!!!


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## teccer

Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky? [/QUOTE]

not sure about being sneaky but obnoxious yes, recently i visited capitano bay on cabo roig and saw a brit on the beach with a dog even though there was a sign saying no dogs, so i thought the rule was relaxed in the winter i went over to ask if it was ok if i brought my dog onto the beach, well! i've never heard such rubbish come out from a brit before, no you cannot because if you do you will be sent to prison right away, so i asked him why he was allowed to bring his dog onto the beach "because i'm a resident" he said, then went on raving about inconsiderate dog owners etc, i think he thought he owned the beach

i know for a fact that nobody gets sent to prison for a first offense of this sort but it would be so nice to have seen the c/g turn up and take him away

talk about brits in spain, i do know many that are great but also i've met quite a few with the same attitude , what's wrong with them!!!!!!!!!!

sorry about no capital letters but the pc is playing up.

just had to have my rant about this sorry


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## jojo

teccer said:


> Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky?
> 
> not sure about being sneaky but obnoxious yes, recently i visited capitano bay on cabo roig and saw a brit on the beach with a dog even though there was a sign saying no dogs, so i thought the rule was relaxed in the winter i went over to ask if it was ok if i brought my dog onto the beach, well! i've never heard such rubbish come out from a brit before, no you cannot because if you do you will be sent to prison right away, so i asked him why he was allowed to bring his dog onto the beach "because i'm a resident" he said, then went on raving about inconsiderate dog owners etc, i think he thought he owned the beach
> 
> i know for a fact that nobody gets sent to prison for a first offense of this sort but it would be so nice to have seen the c/g turn up and take him away
> 
> talk about brits in spain, i do know many that are great but also i've met quite a few with the same attitude , what's wrong with them!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> sorry about no capital letters but the pc is playing up.
> 
> just had to have my rant about this sorry


Some folk are just dumb arent they!! If nothing else, very few dog owners arent residents!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks

teccer said:


> Is it the sun or are the Brits just naturally sneaky? ]
> 
> not sure about being sneaky but obnoxious yes, recently i visited capitano bay on cabo roig and saw a brit on the beach with a dog even though there was a sign saying no dogs, so i thought the rule was relaxed in the winter i went over to ask if it was ok if i brought my dog onto the beach, well! i've never heard such rubbish come out from a brit before, no you cannot because if you do you will be sent to prison right away, so i asked him why he was allowed to bring his dog onto the beach "because i'm a resident" he said, then went on raving about inconsiderate dog owners etc, i think he thought he owned the beach
> 
> i know for a fact that nobody gets sent to prison for a first offense of this sort but it would be so nice to have seen the c/g turn up and take him away
> 
> talk about brits in spain, i do know many that are great but also i've met quite a few with the same attitude , what's wrong with them!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> sorry about no capital letters but the pc is playing up.
> 
> just had to have my rant about this sorry


There are the pig-ignorant mostly everywhere, which is why many of us who still have some sense of responsibility and respect the old values, try not to get too close to them


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## Lolito

I would go back tomorrow with 100 dogs... and wait for his reaction.


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## Alcalaina

Ask him if his dog is registered at the Ayuntamiento on the Padrón de Perros and therefore licensed to go on the beach. There's no such thing (AFAIK) but it might shut him up.

On the Costa de la Luz dogs are prohibited on tourist beaches between May and October, and if you get caught there is a fine. No way would they send you to prison!


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## Pazcat

On a local beach hereabouts they have turned one section into a doggie friendly area and reading the news the locals didn't react kindly to it and even went as far as fisticuffs on the sand because they didn't want dogs on the beach.
There was even a mass doggy protest condemning the violence.


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Ask him if his dog is registered at the Ayuntamiento on the Padrón de Perros and therefore licensed to go on the beach. There's no such thing (AFAIK) but it might shut him up.
> 
> On the Costa de la Luz dogs are prohibited on tourist beaches between May and October, and if you get caught there is a fine. No way would they send you to prison!





> Lolito; I would go back tomorrow with 100 dogs... and wait for his reaction.


Alternatively forget about him asap and get with what you like about living in Spain


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## mrypg9

People ride horses on our village beach all year round so moaning about dogs is a bit pointless.
We take Azor and Xena to the beach from the end of October to Easter and apart from the horse riders and occasionally a few wind surfers we have it to ourselves.
We were there this morning as usual...priceless.


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