# Hola



## Tania14 (Oct 11, 2014)

Hi, im Tania and live in the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire. Thinking of purchasing an apartment in Spain, possibly Malaga area for holidays and rental purposes. Any advice would be great, good or bad, I need to research before we decide to buy in Spain or UK. Just been to Birmingham NEC to 'A place in the sun live', saw Amanda Lamb..! Lots of useful tips given..!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tania14 said:


> Hi, im Tania and live in the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire. Thinking of purchasing an apartment in Spain, possibly Malaga area for holidays and rental purposes. Any advice would be great, good or bad, I need to research before we decide to buy in Spain or UK. Just been to Birmingham NEC to 'A place in the sun live', saw Amanda Lamb..! Lots of useful tips given..!


:welcome:

I've moved your post to 'Spain' where you'll find lots of useful info & where you'll be more likley to get answers to any questions you might have


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Whenever I see somebody using "A Place in the Sun" as an inspiration to purchase property in Spain I cringe. Those tv programmes were filmed in the year 2000 or earlier. Lots have happened since including property price crash (and that's putting in mildly). The lives of many have been ruined with negative equity and false promises over the years on following the Spanish Dream.

To put things in perspective:- If you are rolling in money and can pay cash or easily acquire a very affordable mortgage now is the time to buy. Before anybody comes on here saying Hey Lep, you're at it again . . . I know the property market has turned marginally upwards in the past few months. But, remember the figures that are being used are those after the crash. An increase of say 3% on the "crash value" prices is very little comfort to those who have seen their life savings go down the tubes by 40%-50%.

Rental Market:- No prob renting July and August where you could rent out a shed as a holiday home. But September to May you would be lucky to pick up a long term rental for €550 per month for a well located 2 bedroom apartment/house/duplex in a decent resort. Anybody hoping to rent out inland properties profitably should see a psychiatrist straight away.

Add in a plethora of Spanish taxes, community fees, Water Charges, Refuse Collection . . . and don't be surprised if there is a tax on breathing Spanish fresh air to come.

If anybody can contradict the above, please feel free to do so. But, please if you are a real estate agent or are involved in any way with the property market or have a vested interest in Spanish property please say so.

Declaration of Vested Interest from Leper:- I have an apartment in Spain which I rent out.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> Whenever I see somebody using "A Place in the Sun" as an inspiration to purchase property in Spain I cringe. Those tv programmes were filmed in the year 2000 or earlier. Lots have happened since including property price crash (and that's putting in mildly). The lives of many have been ruined with negative equity and false promises over the years on following the Spanish Dream.
> 
> To put things in perspective:- If you are rolling in money and can pay cash or easily acquire a very affordable mortgage now is the time to buy. Before anybody comes on here saying Hey Lep, you're at it again . . . I know the property market has turned marginally upwards in the past few months. But, remember the figures that are being used are those after the crash. An increase of say 3% on the "crash value" prices is very little comfort to those who have seen their life savings go down the tubes by 40%-50%.
> 
> ...


I agree that Place in the Sun is not the most realistic of programmes, but at the very least it shows you the kinds of houses that there are in Spain and the settings. It's maybe a first port of call.
I also agree that you might as well buy now if you can get a mortgage or if you don't need one. Prices are extremely low now. They may go up a bit or down a bit but you'll still get a very good price. (You may have to negotiate the price down on what is being advertised, but that's all part of the process)
But there's no hurry and there's loads of boring stuff that needs to be sorted out before making the decision of whether to buy Spain or not. The tax issues, the bills you'll have, the renting situation etc.
One thing you can use the forum for is to search for info about different places that you are considering...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Leper said:


> Whenever I see somebody using "A Place in the Sun" as an inspiration to purchase property in Spain I cringe. Those tv programmes were filmed in the year 2000 or earlier. Lots have happened since including property price crash (and that's putting in mildly). The lives of many have been ruined with negative equity and false promises over the years on following the Spanish Dream.
> To put things in perspective:- If you are rolling in money and can pay cash or easily acquire a very affordable mortgage now is the time to buy. Before anybody comes on here saying Hey Lep, you're at it again . . . I know the property market has turned marginally upwards in the past few months. But, remember the figures that are being used are those after the crash. An increase of say 3% on the "crash value" prices is very little comfort to those who have seen their life savings go down the tubes by 40%-50%.
> 
> Rental Market:- No prob renting July and August where you could rent out a shed as a holiday home. But September to May you would be lucky to pick up a long term rental for €550 per month for a well located 2 bedroom apartment/house/duplex in a decent resort. Anybody hoping to rent out inland properties profitably should see a psychiatrist straight away.
> ...


The Place in the Sun programmes aren't necessarily very old (although they do get shown as repeats a lot on various channels). In fact they were filming in my street just a couple of weeks ago. The more recent ones I've watched have definitely pointed out how much property prices in Spain have dropped over the last few years.

I certainly wouldn't buy an apartment if I were depending on rental income to be able to pay the mortgage - and of course on top of the taxes and utility charges the OP would have factor in the cost of having people to meet and greet the renters and take care of changeovers, cleaning, laundry and any maintenance jobs that need doing.

I have no vested interest in Spanish property apart from owning the house I live in - which is 5km inland in a town which is certainly not a tourist hotspot. The American owner of a house almost opposite mine rents it out when he's not using it himself. He's been doing that for about 3 years and at first the rentals were few and far between. However, this year has been very busy and new guests have been arriving the same day the previous ones have left for much of the year. It gets very good reviews on the site he uses to advertise it, which no doubt helps. He didn't start out hoping to make a profit, and paid cash for the house, was just wanting to cover the overheads and have the place occupied for more of the year, but I notice that the rental prices especially for high season have now gone up a bit. They have it rented for a 6 week stay in January, too. It goes against all the advice I've ever read about property rentals because it's inland and doesn't have a pool, but just goes to show there can be the exception that proves the rule.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I've rented out property in the UK and Canada so I've had experience of being an absentee landlord.
There is no way I would consider being a landlord in Spain, even if I lived two minutes away from the property.
I've heard too many horror stories of tenants from hell from friends who let properties.
However....that's only my view. Others have different opinions.
Both need to be considered.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I've rented out property in the UK and Canada so I've had experience of being an absentee landlord.
> There is no way I would consider being a landlord in Spain, even if I lived two minutes away from the property.
> I've heard too many horror stories of tenants from hell from friends who let properties.
> However....that's only my view. Others have different opinions.
> Both need to be considered.


As a landlord in Spain (stupid me) I completely agree with your statement.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> *Pesky Wesky*;5463121
> But there's no hurry and there's loads of boring stuff that needs to be sorted out before making the decision of whether to buy IN Spain or not.


The country's a wreck, house prices have plummeted, but the country as a whole is not up for sale - yet


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> As a landlord in Spain (stupid me) I completely agree with your statement.


Well, to be fair, there are very many good tenants (like us) who pay the year's rent in advance, don't pester the landlord for small repairs to be done and generally look after and even improve the property.

Equally we've read stories on this Forum of landlords who behave appallingly.

Most of the tenants we had in the UK were excellent and the two we had in Canada were equally good - one in fact became a friend whom I visited and I sold the property to the second tenant. But it took just one awkward unreasonable tenant for me to say 'Sod it!' and sell the properties.

I think that to make money out of renting you have to own a portfolio of properties and that isn't something I'd want to get in to.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Apartments are noisy from above, below, left and right. The rules the community make are never kept, the communal areas are not cleaned by all the owners. Owners rent out their apartments and never vet the tenants. 

I have an apartment, I would never rent it, I would sell it tomorrow if I could, I would never never buy another. If you must buy, go for a house an old one with thick sound proof walls.


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## fcexpat (Sep 25, 2014)

Not sure if this is something that might help private landlords with tenants from U K - some of the landlords I have acted for here - especially in high value properties - request a form of CRB check from the U K Police - it weeds out those who don't want their past revealed and if you have nothing to hide then its just an added level of security for the landlord. Also again with U K tenants its easy to do a bankruptcy or Judgment check with Registry Trust ..................


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

f


fcexpat said:


> Not sure if this is something that might help private landlords with tenants from U K - some of the landlords I have acted for here - especially in high value properties - request a form of CRB check from the U K Police - it weeds out those who don't want their past revealed and if you have nothing to hide then its just an added level of security for the landlord. Also again with U K tenants its easy to do a bankruptcy or Judgment check with Registry Trust ..................


I can see where you're coming from - I think - but I'm not sure either of these measures would guarantee your rent would be paid.
The fact you might have committed a criminal offence is irrelevant really and if you have been convicted and punished then why should you be punished further by being denied accommodation if you can afford to pay the rent?
The blunt fact is that having a clean financial record and even having a good income is no guarantee that you will be a good tenant.
I suppose our house would be considered a high value property and our landlord requests references and bank guarantees but that hasn't stopped him being ripped off by past tenants, one of which apparently had all the trappings of a good income - an agency selling expensive - £million plus - homes in Cheshire.

As I said, renting is a risk and probably more so for people in lower value properties who rely on rental income to pay the mortgage.
Our landlord's main source of income lie outside Spain: he is Austrian and owns bordellos and industrial rental property in a town near Vienna, as well as already having made a pile in scrap metal. He could afford to take a hit but of course wasn't happy about it!


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## fcexpat (Sep 25, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> f
> 
> I can see where you're coming from - I think - but I'm not sure either of these measures would guarantee your rent would be paid.
> The fact you might have committed a criminal offence is irrelevant really and if you have been convicted and punished then why should you be punished further by being denied accommodation if you can afford to pay the rent?
> ...


Totally agree with your reasoning on this - I suppose you can't really apply U K reasoning into the Spanish - or any other - rental market - it is totally alien to me to think of taking on a commitment I could not comply with leaving someone in financial difficulties because of it .. old fashioned values I guess ... I hope that we are lucky enough to find a good landlord ... I have seen so many instances of my clients being defrauded of rent and they have recourse to a reasonable Court system in this country .......


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

fcexpat said:


> Totally agree with your reasoning on this - I suppose you can't really apply U K reasoning into the Spanish - or any other - rental market - it is totally alien to me to think of taking on a commitment I could not comply with leaving someone in financial difficulties because of it .. old fashioned values I guess ... I hope that we are lucky enough to find a good landlord ... I have seen so many instances of my clients being defrauded of rent and they have recourse to a reasonable Court system in this country .......


Well, we were lucky and we're not the only ones!

Fingers crossed for you:fingerscrossed:


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

fcexpat said:


> Not sure if this is something that might help private landlords with tenants from U K - some of the landlords I have acted for here - especially in high value properties - request a form of CRB check from the U K Police - it weeds out those who don't want their past revealed and if you have nothing to hide then its just an added level of security for the landlord. Also again with U K tenants its easy to do a bankruptcy or Judgment check with Registry Trust ..................


If a prospective landlord wanted a CRB check from, me, I'd most certainly want one done on home too, given the amount of dodgy landlords. References might be more useful though - how come they're never expected to produce evidence of how they've behaved as landlords.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Tania14 said:


> Hi, im Tania and live in the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire. Thinking of purchasing an apartment in Spain, possibly Malaga area for holidays and rental purposes. Any advice would be great, good or bad, I need to research before we decide to buy in Spain or UK. Just been to Birmingham NEC to 'A place in the sun live', saw Amanda Lamb..! Lots of useful tips given..!


Another thing you need to consider is that the Spanish authorities are really clamping down on unlicensed/ unregistered holiday letting, and I gather this can be difficult to get. This is partially a response to hotels etc struggling (particularly during the crisis) and also partially in response to the increase in private holiday lets in Spain, and many other places, around the world, since the advent of the likes of Airbnb.

For long term letting, you only need to look at the amount of properties on Spansih letting websites that sit for months and months.

As others have said, be very careful if you have to rely on rental income to make your project work.


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## Tania14 (Oct 11, 2014)

Thank you for all your comments. Mentioning a place in the sun was silly really, sounded like I went for a day out and thought, wouldn't it be nice to own a place in Spain. I have experience of renting property in UK and was and still maybe thinking of purchasing in Spain for rentals and getaway for myself and husband. No mortgage would be required. Have just arrived back from Calahonda. Done lots of research and still looking into the monthly costs outgoing and possible income, although this would have to be a guess as who knows how many people will book apartment. Where might I find examples of water and electricity costs for 2 bedroomed apartments in Costa Del Sol area..? Thanks in advance


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tania14 said:


> Thank you for all your comments. Mentioning a place in the sun was silly really, sounded like I went for a day out and thought, wouldn't it be nice to own a place in Spain. I have experience of renting property in UK and was and still maybe thinking of purchasing in Spain for rentals and getaway for myself and husband. No mortgage would be required. Have just arrived back from Calahonda. Done lots of research and still looking into the monthly costs outgoing and possible income, although this would have to be a guess as who knows how many people will book apartment. Where might I find examples of water and electricity costs for 2 bedroomed apartments in Costa Del Sol area..? Thanks in advance


It's very hard to estimate electricity and water consumption for people you don't know. You might get tenants who leave the heating on all day and night in winter and the air con on all day and night in summer....
As the property owner, utility contracts will be in your name so if a tenant doesn't pay you are liable.
Did you like Calahonda?


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola

As someone who saw "A Place in the Sun" many moons ago, can I say that it is a good starting point for those with an enquiring brain. I did my research over several months before coming to Spain; some were holiday home shows at places from the NEC down to local estate agents. 

It is possible learn something from each exhibition you visit; as has been said before, it is all down to the individual and what they want. If you are looking to make money, I doubt Spain is in the top ten places, but if you want a holiday home in the sun that you can rent out, then maybe Spain fits the bill. 

Davexf


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

A Place in the Sun was filming recently in Nerja and, sadly, using an agent who is known to be, let's say not exactly above board. But the program has quite a following so they aren't going to stop making it in a hurry. Many people who move over here watch it, including us, but realise when we are here that the picture they paint is far from reality. I'm sure if Amanda Lamb lived her for a couple of years she might balk at presenting the program. Maybe. Nevertheless, if you want to buy here for rentals and your own holidays it remains the best advice to live here for maybe 6 months in your selected area but renting. Just to see what it's really like...


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## Tania14 (Oct 11, 2014)

Yes, figures I have calculated for a small apartment I think may be around 500 euros per month outgoings, so looking at many of the rental websites, properties being advertised are empty from around November to April so need to work out figures from this. At least the good thing is my husband and I like to visit between November and April in the cooler times so this could work. Calahonda was very nice, we stayed at Puerto Del Mar last year Royal Beach but a little too far from restaurants. We stayed at Calahonda Beach this year and it was fab, great area. Great to see they are putting footpaths all along the sea front to connect Calahonda to La Cala. Not so great for Calahonda Beach apartments as town hall want to remove half of their front patio to allow for footpath to be built. Thank you for your comments though.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> I certainly wouldn't buy an apartment if I were depending on rental income to be able to pay the mortgage - and of course on top of the taxes and utility charges the OP would have factor in the cost of having people to meet and greet the renters and take care of changeovers, cleaning, laundry and any maintenance jobs that need doing.


I'm late to the thread.... sunshine to enjoy outside, but just to show that there's often a different way of looking at things.....

I have a friend who's owned an apartment in Spain for over 10 years. She rents it out for an average of 35 weeks a year. When discussing the wisdom of purchasing in Spain recently we sat down and took a look at her numbers. It seems her 200k apartment has cost her about half that.


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