# need advice on moving from us to uk with not a lot of money



## eclipticstone (Jun 14, 2009)

i am an electrician in us with little savings and a baby on the way. my wife and i are filled with contempt torwards the "live the american dream" lies of the us. wanting more for our new child as well as our 20 year old, what are the first 5 things i should be concentrating on? any suggestions greatly appreciated


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

eclipticstone said:


> i am an electrician in us with little savings and a baby on the way. my wife and i are filled with contempt torwards the "live the american dream" lies of the us. wanting more for our new child as well as our 20 year old, what are the first 5 things i should be concentrating on? any suggestions greatly appreciated


Visa, visa, visa, visa and visa.

I have no idea about UK visas and immigration. But I can tell you that if you'd posted the same as a UK citizen wanting to escape to America, I would probably have some very bad news for you.


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## eclipticstone (Jun 14, 2009)

so that means my family has hope? is it harder to get out there?


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

It really depends. The UK government is now enacting a visa system based on points. I am not familiar with it but I am sure you will find information about it in the UK's Home Office web site.

The Home Office is the ministry responsible for immigration in the UK.

Just in the off chance, if you have recent European ancestry you may qualify as citizen for a number of EU countries, which would allow you to work anywhere in the EU, that is something worth keeping in mind in the remote chance it amy apply to you (or your wife!).


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

eclipticstone said:


> so that means my family has hope? is it harder to get out there?


I'd be looking more at Australia, New Zealand or Canada if I were you. Although the recession is biting there, too. But they are more open to skilled trades.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

eclipticstone said:


> i am an electrician in us with little savings and a baby on the way. my wife and i are filled with contempt torwards the "live the american dream" lies of the us. wanting more for our new child as well as our 20 year old, what are the first 5 things i should be concentrating on? any suggestions greatly appreciated



There really isnt much work in the UK at all. I'm not sure why you think the UK is gonna be any better, I believe its more expensive, more crowded and has far fewer opportunities than the US? I left the UK in disgust 18 months ago! but good luck, I know how it is to feel dissatisfied :kiss:

Jo xxx


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I'd have to say, too, that of all the European countries, the UK is probably the closest to the US in terms of the "culture" you seem to be trying to avoid - get rich quick, easy credit, shop til you drop, etc.

But no matter where you go, you'll need some savings if only to get you started. You need to visit the place you're thinking of first - to see what the situation is on the ground and to determine if you think you could live there. There are some (considerable) costs to job hunting at distance (including making yourself available for face to face meetings), then the costs of applying for visas (usually between $100 and $500 per person in your family). In most countries, your 20 year old is considered an adult and will have to qualify for a visa on his or her own (i.e. job, schooling, etc.) and that visa may or may not be on terms similar to your own visas. And then there are the costs of moving a family overseas plus set-up costs in the new country.

Like fatbrit says, Canada or Australia may be better options for you unless you've traveled and know that you have an affinity for another radically different culture. But as an electrician, I suspect you're also looking at a certain amount of retraining in order to work in another country - different codes and regulations.

It's not impossible, but it's not something to jump into until you've explored all the angles.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

Regardless of the visa and immigration issues, you would find that your US qualifications would probably not be recognised in the UK.

Different voltage (230v Single Phase 415v Three Phase nominal)

Different frequency (50hz)

Different colour coding

Different regulatons (BS 7671 IEE Wiring Regulation 17th Edition)


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## eclipticstone (Jun 14, 2009)

Could $10,000us sustain us with utilities/rent paid? or is that not enough?
and could someone please tell me where to find the uk electrical code book?


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

eclipticstone said:


> Could $10,000us sustain us with utilities/rent paid? or is that not enough?
> and could someone please tell me where to find the uk electrical code book?


As always it depends.

If you are really good, you could stretch that to 6 months, but I find more realistic to think it would last you 3.

Let me put it this way, that is around £6000, the minimum wage is around £12000/year ....


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

jojo said:


> There really isnt much work in the UK at all. I'm not sure why you think the UK is gonna be any better, I believe its more expensive, more crowded and has far fewer opportunities than the US? I left the UK in disgust 18 months ago! but good luck, I know how it is to feel dissatisfied :kiss:
> 
> Jo xxx



That is highly debatable.

Lets put it this way: there are more people coming to the UK than leaving 

You have to have been to the US (specially post 9-11) to understand what the original poster is talking about ....


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

eclipticstone said:


> Could $10,000us sustain us with utilities/rent paid? or is that not enough?
> and could someone please tell me where to find the uk electrical code book?


I think you should start below:

Electrical wiring (UK) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

jlms said:


> I think you should start below:
> 
> Electrical wiring (UK) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's another world. No twisting wires together and fastening with a nut!


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

You can order a copy of the 17th Edition Regulations, as well as other publications from here

Wiring regulations - The IET

The Wiki page shown in a previous post does give informatin about domestic installations (Part P Building Regulations), but for more commercial, industrial works, Part P does not apply. I would suggest contacting the JIB (Joint Industry Board) to obtain details on the requirements on obtaining an electricians trade card.

You would also need to possess a Skillcard. This is to show that you are fully conversant with health and safety legislation and practices.

Some of the H&S legislation

Health & Safety At Work Act 1974
Electricity At Work Regulations 1989
RIDDOR 1995
LOLER 1998
PUWER 1998

I'm not saying you would need to know these word for word, but you would need a basic knowledge of them. I think that these are free to download from the Health & Safety Executive website HSE: Information about health and safety at work


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## cblash (May 5, 2009)

jojo said:


> There really isnt much work in the UK at all. I'm not sure why you think the UK is gonna be any better, I believe its more expensive, more crowded and has far fewer opportunities than the US? I left the UK in disgust 18 months ago! but good luck, I know how it is to feel dissatisfied :kiss:
> 
> Jo xxx


I agree wit you 100%. I have dual citizenship US and EU, I have National Insurance number and required Worker Registration (which qualified me as high skilled professional) and I am strugling to find job (any job). So I am looking for any opportunity to come back to US. You may not have problems with people but government - that's different story. Entire UK is a police state and responses from government are not only ridicules but take forever, and always contradicting each other. There may be different on continental EU, but entire UK .......leave it blank. Any idea how to come back home without or with little money? That's what come to this point!!! Get the picture? Besides in EU as an US Citizen you can stay legally only for three months - after that you have to move for at least three months outside of EU. American Chamber of Commerce join forcess so you can't even find work in American company because even in American Embassy/Consulate guards are from UK or Scotland. Even if you are legally (with all your papers in order) you are not eligible for anything up to one year. You may be eligible to work in UK but on the same time your wife mau not be - so she have to work semi legally with low paying jobs. In general UK claim to be Democratic, but they still live like ......
Food - you don't want to know - nobody knows what is it!!!! It doesn't smell or taste like any food we know. Even eggs doesn't tate at all. TOTAL DISASTER.

Chris


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

cblash said:


> I agree wit you 100%. I have dual citizenship US and EU, I have National Insurance number and required Worker Registration (which qualified me as high skilled professional) and I am strugling to find job (any job). So I am looking for any opportunity to come back to US. You may not have problems with people but government - that's different story. Entire UK is a police state and responses from government are not only ridicules but take forever, and always contradicting each other. There may be different on continental EU, but entire UK .......leave it blank. Any idea how to come back home without or with little money? That's what come to this point!!! Get the picture? Besides in EU as an US Citizen you can stay legally only for three months - after that you have to move for at least three months outside of EU. American Chamber of Commerce join forcess so you can't even find work in American company because even in American Embassy/Consulate guards are from UK or Scotland. Even if you are legally (with all your papers in order) you are not eligible for anything up to one year. You may be eligible to work in UK but on the same time your wife mau not be - so she have to work semi legally with low paying jobs. In general UK claim to be Democratic, but they still live like ......
> Food - you don't want to know - nobody knows what is it!!!! It doesn't smell or taste like any food we know. Even eggs doesn't tate at all. TOTAL DISASTER.
> 
> Chris


Oh dear Chris! sounds like you have had a really bad time since you arrived in the UK! I left 5 years ago so cant comment really, maybe its changed so much in that time even I wouldnt recognise it!
I think everyones experience when emigrating is different to someone elses .... my move to Spain for example was easier than most peoples, but harder than others ... as is often the case our own personal experiences determine how we see another Country, or its residents, its services and its opportunities.

I hope you find somewhere that you feel suits what you need and want ... including the eggs!!


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## cblash (May 5, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Oh dear Chris! sounds like you have had a really bad time since you arrived in the UK! I left 5 years ago so cant comment really, maybe its changed so much in that time even I wouldnt recognise it!
> I think everyones experience when emigrating is different to someone elses .... my move to Spain for example was easier than most peoples, but harder than others ... as is often the case our own personal experiences determine how we see another Country, or its residents, its services and its opportunities.
> 
> I hope you find somewhere that you feel suits what you need and want ... including the eggs!!


I know Europe from 26 years ago and I can't complain about any continental countries. I live there and I work there. UK always represent the wors conditions. Unfortunately for me it was only option since it is not easy to found housing onmore prem basis if you don't have yet work, even if you have legal work permit. If I will know someone in Austria or Italy or Spain it probably it would be better (hard to tell). Fodd wiese was and still is the same in UK as it was.
Besides I don't speak as a novice - I talk about reality withous coloration or discoloration - plain truth. I believe that if I respond to some message I am obligated to reader to tell how it is - not how I see it. I stated facts to worn people of difficulties which they may found as I did. Even with best or worst experience the best lesson is reality. My experiences teached me to wach for details, and that's what I am passing on.
If I would find someone who can help me to get out of this misery I would appreciated.

Chris


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

I hardly think the UK is a police state


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## cblash (May 5, 2009)

Ogri750 said:


> I hardly think the UK is a police state


If you look at any coutry from visitor poiny of view - I would agree.
I visit many countries and live in some.
If you look from historical point of view and learn how to observe and as well develop skills what to look for you definitely will change your mind. UK was nown for centuries for violation of Human Rights and up to today not much changes!
Many natives defend their position, but do they develop ability to apply neutral observations (not the judgements)? I never have problems with regular people.
Making opinion of anything depend on incomming information and observations - and that's defining factor on opinion which each of us form.
Only when someone learn to apply all necessary (and complex) aspects in forming opinion shall not reject some comments.
This may sounds philosophical - but I base my opinion base on facts, observation, history, culture, Human Right violation, behaviour of government and employersand as well many other aspects. And I always correct my views according to incomming information (but not blindly) - I alvays validate all of the aspects related to formation of present opinion.

So think about it. If every movement is observe by police including multitude of cameras, and police acts in many cases without proper justification - how you will call it?
Look deeper into history, into every day of life of average Human Been. You would be supprize what you can find?

With regards,

cblash


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

Most of the CCTV cameras are not monitored by the police. They are in fact monitored by the local councils (authorities).

I'm not saying that the information that is viewed by these cameras is never passed to the police, it is sometimes, but this scenario is not particular to the UK, but in fact is pretty standard in most developed countries.

As for human rights issues, there are many countries with a far worse record than Britain. Doesn't mean I'm defending breaches of Human Rights, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones


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## cblash (May 5, 2009)

Ogri750 said:


> Most of the CCTV cameras are not monitored by the police. They are in fact monitored by the local councils (authorities).
> 
> I'm not saying that the information that is viewed by these cameras is never passed to the police, it is sometimes, but this scenario is not particular to the UK, but in fact is pretty standard in most developed countries.
> 
> As for human rights issues, there are many countries with a far worse record than Britain. Doesn't mean I'm defending breaches of Human Rights, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones


First at al I don't live in green houses. I only pass what I see and what I have learned. How well did you learn history of each World countries? Self fact that UK have the biggest colonies, and if you read what England does in those countries you will be amazed. This apply not only to UK but to many Western European countries. But some of them pay today prize for what they done. Skip listening to what News, TV, Press are telling you and you will see more clear picture. You are harping on details - I look at whole picture. You mention that human rights in other countries are violated it, yes that's true - but it is as well effect of formre colonization and today influence of US and other more powerful countries - POLITICS AT IS "BEST"!? That's also true that even average citizen of the coutries disobey and abuse law. But the law also design to the advantage of those in green houses, not for average citizens.
You touch huge subject, but as long as you look only for details you will not find the truth or objective view.
Look what is happening in countries when the comunism was overthrown! It was much more order than is now! Every mass movement bring to the surface the bed side of people who have resurces and method to enforce their own criminal activities. That's common in this type of movement.
It is big and wide subject and can't be judge by the details. There is only one problem - lerning not tinted history and read between lines, otherwiese we will have false view and opinion(s).
So please do not jump to conclusion and relay on local view, PLEASE!
There is very important and very simple question befory you analyze any problems "WHY?" - this is important question to get to the truth. And it deoends only if you will have courage to state it until you find detail which will lead you to the reality. Please read the history from differen poin t of view and analyze, analyze and again analyze - and you can always find something which will change your maind and correct your view - but only if you look at the issue with neutral view.
History which we read is written many different way by many people, but that' their opinion tinted wit limited view. You will never find neutral view. It is a jungle, so you have to find your on.
Will this opinion be correct - only to certaun degree. Of course if I will get different info - I will change my mind - but so far it is only my expression (at this time). But it may change with incomming information. I may be right and i may be wrong, but no politician persuasion can change my wiev - only the facts finding will do this. As an addition we shall exchange information to enhance our knowledge without throwing stones. I know it is not easy sometime but to get to real values we shall exchange our view and take it to consideration.

*Democracy in each culture have a different meanings, let not impose our believes onto others, lets find common ground to create better World with many different colors.*
With regards,

cblash


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm not sure a debate about colonial politics (which makes most continental European countries that had successful colonies also look rather terrible) is particularly helpful to the original poster's question here. He is after all, considering moving from the US to the UK (both of which have rather dubious colonial histories, as does France, Spain, etc etc etc). Whether the UK is currently a police state, however, is perhaps relevant to his decision.

It is true that there are many CCTV cameras in the UK. The ones on buses really don't bother me; I don't do anything on a bus I would mind anyone seeing, and I know that if someone does something to ME on that bus there is evidence for me to rely on in court. It doesn't become a "he said, she said" situation. Buses feel very much like being in public to me, and I expect less privacy in public, after all, the people around me can see me too. That doesn't mean that there are not CCTV cameras in many other places that don't bother me more.

I will point out that different regions of the UK are very different for surveillance. In a recent Europe-wide study, England/Wales rated as the highest surveillance nation in Europe. Scotland, on the other hand, rated much lower, and was more in line with most of the continent. So, as an adopted Scot, if one is looking to move to the UK without dealing with higher rates of surveillance, there are certainly areas that are better at protecting their residents' privacy. It really does depend on where you go in the UK. Here is an article about the study, since no one should have to take my word for it: BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Civil liberty praise for Scotland (The article is very pro-SNP, please do not take that as a political endorsement from me either.) 

I want to reiterate that I am NOT defending the amount of surveillance that is going on in the UK (even in Scotland), and for that matter in most of Europe (and the US - wiretaps without warrants, anyone?!), but it is important to keep perspective on the situation.

Best,
Elizabeth


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## ElleM (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm in London now, came from Orlando. The cost of living in London is outrageous-- especially with the current exchange rate of about 1.66. When I came last year it was 2 dollars to 1 pound so I essentially lost 1/2 of what I had and then things were even more expensive. For example something that cost $3 in the states would cost 5 pounds here- equating it to $10. So $3 versus $10-- easy to see that it's more expensive here. And, to be honest from what I've seen jobs in the states PAY BETTER.
I think Americans have lofty ideas of British life, but to be honest once you're here and you hear everyone here saying how badly they'd love to live in America you realize how good you really have it as an American.


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## Shipresa (Dec 9, 2008)

*Move elsewhere.*

Having come from USA 6 months ago, and having lived in TRUE police states (Eritrea, Sudan, Honduras) - $10,000 and a hatred of USA isn't going to get anyone far here.

1. UK culture is not far different from USA.
2. UK cost of living is easily 50% higher - and I lived in one of the largest metropolitan cities in the USA.
3. My $400,000 home in that metropolitan city, if sold, would only bring me a house HALF THE SIZE.
4. Housing prices are higher here in UK!!!
5. Food prices are higher.
6. If you consider the American Dream a negative, guess what - they have one here too - just you drink more with it.
7. Insurances are more expensive.
8. Clothes are more expensive. (In fact I flew back to USA cheaper to fill 2 suitcases with outfits than to buy them here or in Europe.)
9. Yeah, electric is another ballgame. Do you need to be in a union or certifying body here to be a tradesman? I noticed that even watch repairers and shoe repair folks need to.
10. Vehicles and petrol are way more expensive.
11. Furniture, everything is more expensive!

I've lived in countries where people have given their LIVES for a chance to live in US or UK, or anywhere in Europe for that matter. I do not find UK a police state - anyone with any sense of understanding that cultures do differ can understand that things are simply done differently here or anywhere. 

Problems with CCTV? Would you prefer machine guns like so many other countries? Or just rampant disregard for people and things?

If you don't have a lot of money, try the islands. Dominican Republic for example. Lots of expats go down, set up a trade business, and make enough to eat.

Also search countries that allow residence based on purchasing a home or establishing a private business (in other words, bringing a tax base.)

You don't mention if you selling your house and buying in UK.... $10,000 US will last a family of four about a month or 2 months only. Oh, and with all the health care arguments in the USA - no, you don't just come to UK and get free health insurance. You will need private until you are naturalized, which can take years. Its not cheap.

One other thing - the US has a culture of cultural/racial/ethnic tolerance. I'm not quite finding that here, at least in the areas that I am, which are more rural, of course.

UK or continental Europe is not a place to move if you are without resources. Eastern Europe is more do-able, but the crime, pollution, poor schools and infrastructure - it will bring on much larger stresses than hating the 'American dream.'


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

ElleM said:


> I'm in London now, came from Orlando. The cost of living in London is outrageous-- especially with the current exchange rate of about 1.66. When I came last year it was 2 dollars to 1 pound so I essentially lost 1/2 of what I had and then things were even more expensive. For example something that cost $3 in the states would cost 5 pounds here- equating it to $10. So $3 versus $10-- easy to see that it's more expensive here. And, to be honest from what I've seen jobs in the states PAY BETTER.
> I think Americans have lofty ideas of British life, but to be honest once you're here and you hear everyone here saying how badly they'd love to live in America you realize how good you really have it as an American.


Hi .... I think this type of comment has come up before on this and other forums (when you are one place and it makes you realise you lucky you were to be in the place you originated from!)
For some people the grass will always look greener .... but it rarely is ... usually its just a different type of grass!! lol 
At the end of the day we move from our Country of Origin to a new place looking for a better life (presumably) - but should always expect it to be different ... otherwise whats the point in going ????? I now live in Spain and try my hardest not to make any comparisons .... whether its related to customs, people, weather, cost of living, exchange rate etc etc ...... because the two dont compare - they are and I hope they will always be - very different places.

Sue


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