# Citizenship process



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

My husband and I have just started the process to obtain Mexican citizenship. Our first year on Permanente status will be completed in September. We are using our local lawyer, Spencer, to assist us since we are both hearing impaired and klutzes in Spanish speaking. According to him, we will need to go to Mexico City before the process is complete, so we are wondering how others handle this: take a plane, take a tour, take taxi to the right office, how long do we need to be there and all of that. We'd like to see the new museum and some other sights at the same time. Probably will happen around December.

We took a tour about seven years ago where they tried to hit too many high points on the same day: the pyramids AND the history museums (whew), but are looking forward to seeing more. Forget anything too strenuous: we're healthy, but getting up there in years, so easy does it.

Any suggestions about going about this or experiences to share?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> My husband and I have just started the process to obtain Mexican citizenship. Our first year on Permanente status will be completed in September. We are using our local lawyer, Spencer, to assist us since we are both hearing impaired and klutzes in Spanish speaking. According to him, we will need to go to Mexico City before the process is complete, so we are wondering how others handle this: take a plane, take a tour, take taxi to the right office, how long do we need to be there and all of that. We'd like to see the new museum and some other sights at the same time. Probably will happen around December.
> 
> We took a tour about seven years ago where they tried to hit too many high points on the same day: the pyramids AND the history museums (whew), but are looking forward to seeing more. Forget anything too strenuous: we're healthy, but getting up there in years, so easy does it.
> 
> Any suggestions about going about this or experiences to share?


Since I live in Mexico City (lucky me!), I can't offer any advice about the best way to travel to Mexico City from wherever you live in Mexico, but I'm curious about which "new museum" you're referring to. Also, what tour are you referring to? In my experience, most group tours try to do too much in one day, so you're better off hiring a taxi to take you to places that interest you on your own.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I had to do it 3 rimes rwice for myself as my papers and purse was solen with all my original ppaers when I got back...

The first time I took an early flight to Mexico, took a caab from the airport to the police headquarters in Coyiacan and too a cab back to the airport. Painless.

The second time I took a bus to Df Stayed in the center at hotel Cathedral enjoyed Mexico city that night Took a cab first thing i the morning to Coyoacan, got the paper within an hour took a cab back to the otel and spent the week.end in the xity and came back by bus on Monday morning.
The third time we took a bus one wat spent a couple of ays there and flew back.
It is all very easy.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

If you stay in the center you can visit the museum atTemplo Mayor if you have not seen it and it is worth the trip alone..two blocks from the hotel

If you stay at Casa Gonzales in the Cuauhemoc district , it is less congested can cross a couple of street and be in the Zona Rosa, take a cab to the Soumaya. The building is worth looking at it The collections inside are mxed, there is some good things but it is not a museum I would go much out of the way to see except for the buildin wich is pretty spectacular. You are not too far from Roma Condessa or Polanco when there so plenty of restaurants and places to experience.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

With so many fabulous museums in Mexico City, the Museo Soumaya is definitely not worth a special trip. The collection reflects the tastes of the late wife of Carlos Slim, the wealthiest man in Mexico. She was an art lover, to be sure, but had more money than the eye of a true connoisseur, and the collection is a reflection of that .

Casa González is a pleasant family-owned hotel, somewhat old-fashioned, with a lovely walled garden for the guests to relax in and socialize with each other. It's conveniently located a block from Reforma, near El Angel and the US Embassy, and about equidistant between downtown and Chapultepec Park.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

One thing to keep in mind: timing is everything in getting the file ready. La carta de policia from Jalisco and Federal are valid 3 motns so you need to get your US papers apostilled and translated and once you have that get the Jalisco carta from the modulo on the side of the market in CHapala and go to Coyoacan right away .
Actually the first thing to do after your request for your US papers id to figure out which name they will accept. WHen the name on your passport is differnt from your birth cerificate it is when the fun starts. So figure out what you want your Mexican name to be and see what they will accept. After that go to Mexico for the Cara with your birth cerificate apostilled and translated your passport your INM card and whtever paper they want, Spencer can tell you. The Carta from Jalisco is a piece of cake and you can get it on that side street at the right of the Chapala market.
After you get your citizenship you need to apply for the IFE in Jocotepec, your passport in Guadalajara, get your driver´s license changed to reflect your new natinality, Change your nationality at your bank accounts in Mexico and whatever other Mexican paper you may have stating your nationality.
If you name is different from your deeds wills etc it is a good idea to have a paper drawn by the notario stating that all the names listed are the names of the same person.

It is not permitted to call yourself anything but Mexican when in Mexico so all your Mexican papers have to state that you are a Mexican citizen. No need to redo the deed ot will as they were drawn before you became Mexican.

You do have to renounce your US citizenship while living in Mexico .


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=Isla Verde;4406274]With so many fabulous museums in Mexico City, the Museo Soumaya is definitely not worth a special trip..... _

Perhaps not worth a special trip but certainly a worthwhile experience to see how the elite in Mexico once viewed and disdained the locals they had subjugated.

The visit to the pólice precinct in Coyacan where one must receive a paper stating that one has no federal criminal record in Mexico in order to continue the naturalization process is (or was the days we were there), a piece of cake and should take up very little of your time so as long as you must go to Mexico City, have some fun in one of the most fascinating cities on the planet. I say, don´t race down and back but enjoy the megalópolis. As I remember, the day we got my papers from the cops there in the morning in short order, we headed over to the nearby Frida Kahlo home/museum and some other sights and had a fantastic meal somewhere. A great town where you absolutely must go during this process so make the most of it.

We are returning to that marvelous city soon to meet my wife´s sister from Paris and visit there and Oaxaca City. I can´t wait.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Isla what are some of your favorite museums in the City? I may stop buy in a month or so and I am looking for new things to see and to do..

I love the Soumaya building especialy inside but I thought the colection had no personality no soul and was disappointed to see the display of Rodin pieces on the last floor..The collection was very nouveau riche, I ll have 20 Rodins, so many Dali so many of this and of that but you do not see the person behind it just a list of must have. All these Rodin pieces made me think she must have gotten a deal on Rodin..
There are so many artists and artisans in Mexico it was disappointed not to see more Mexican artists there. There are some but not that many .


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone! We want to make the most of the experience and your suggestions will help immensely. I'd like to see the art museum even if not necessarily to my taste, and would also like to see the aquarium and some other things our old quickie tour didn't cover.

One question: I do know that you must be treated as a Mexican citizen while in Mexico, but I don't think that "renouncing your U.S. citizenship" is quite accurate, in that you must go through a formal procedure with the U.S. Govt. in order to actually renounce your U.S. citizenship. In other words, once Mexican citizenship is attained, a U.S. citizen has "dual citizenship" and when in the U.S. is treated as a U.S. citizen: while in Mexico, as a Mexican citizen.
Not that it matters to me: I haven't been back to the U.S. (except for a funeral) in ten years, and as time goes on, have even less desire to go there. This has become "home".


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Mexico makes you sign a paper that you are renouncing your citizenship while in Mexico, they do not care what your nationality is abroad. But you will have to sign the paper.
It basically means that you cannot appeal to the US consulate as long as you are in Mexico. 
They do not ask you to remounce your citizenship to the US hence dual citizenship,
Renouncing WHILE in Mexico is what they make you sign.
Dual citizenship means you are Mexican in Mexico and whatever you want when abroad ,You can also vote in both places.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

citlali said:


> Mexico makes you sign a paper that you are renouncing your citizenship while in Mexico, they do not care what your nationality is abroad. But you will have to sign the paper.
> It basically means that you cannot appeal to the US consulate as long as you are in Mexico.
> They do not ask you to remounce your citizenship to the US hence dual citizenship,
> Renouncing WHILE in Mexico is what they make you sign.
> Dual citizenship means you are Mexican in Mexico and whatever you want when abroad ,You can also vote in both places.


No disagreement. I misunderstood what you meant.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Lagoloo:

While I have successfully gone through the naturalization process with Citlali´s assistance and that is a done deal (WHEW!), I must say the process is not to be taken lightly. Spencer seems an accomplished Mexican lawyer with a command of the language and sense of what goes on here and I hope his assistance is adequate to help you through the ordeal if you seek naturalization. The personnel at SRE seem in turmoil over the language fluency issue and whether or not hired interpreters are acceptable but I do believe that seeking naturalization now is a good idea as this may become even more difficult in the future as new INM rules make more immigrants seek citizenship as an alternative to permanent residency. 

Good luck to you.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Isla what are some of your favorite museums in the City? I may stop buy in a month or so and I am looking for new things to see and to do..
> 
> I love the Soumaya building especialy inside but I thought the colection had no personality no soul and was disappointed to see the display of Rodin pieces on the last floor..The collection was very nouveau riche, I ll have 20 Rodins, so many Dali so many of this and of that but you do not see the person behind it just a list of must have. All these Rodin pieces made me think she must have gotten a deal on Rodin..
> There are so many artists and artisans in Mexico it was disappointed not to see more Mexican artists there. There are some but not that many .


If you want to see work by modern Mexican artists, the best place to start is the Museo de Arte Moderno in Chapultepec Park. And to see Mexican art from most time periods, there is always the MUNAL in the Centro Histórico. The Antiguo Colegio de San Ildefonso consistently shows well-curated temporary exhibits featuring all sorts of art, mostly modern and contemporary, and is housed in a wonderful (and historically significant) building located a couple of blocks in back of the Cathedral. In addition, there are many murals decorating the walls and staircases of the complex, including a number by José Clemente Orozco, one of the _tres_ _grandes_, along with Diego Rivera and David Siqueiros. In the same general area, you can find the Museo Archivo de la Fotografía, which is great for photography buffs like me. Of course, my favorite museum in the city is the Museo de Arte Popular, which I know you are very familiar with, citlali. To complement the fine permanent and temporary exhibits of folk art on display there (right now there is a wonderful one dealing with ceramics from Tonalá and Tlaquepaque), I recommend visiting the Ethnography galleries on the second floor of the Museo Nacional de Antropología, which, unfortunately, many visitors to this world-renowned museum skip. I could go on and on, but I must end here because I have a rush translation job waiting for me.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks la Isla, I ll have to buy lunch!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Thanks la Isla, I ll have to buy lunch!


All invitations to lunch are happily accepted, especially when the person doing the inviting is such good company!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> If you want to see work by modern Mexican artists, the best place to start is the Museo de Arte Moderno in Chapultepec Park. And to see Mexican art from most time periods, there is always the MUNAL in the Centro Histórico. The Antiguo Colegio de San Ildefonso consistently shows well-curated temporary exhibits featuring all sorts of art, mostly modern and contemporary, and is housed in a wonderful (and historically significant) building located a couple of blocks in back of the Cathedral. In addition, there are many murals decorating the walls and staircases of the complex, including a number by José Clemente Orozco, one of the _tres_ _grandes_, along with Diego Rivera and David Siqueiros. In the same general area, you can find the Museo Archivo de la Fotografía, which is great for photography buffs like me. Of course, my favorite museum in the city is the Museo de Arte Popular, which I know you are very familiar with, citlali. To complement the fine permanent and temporary exhibits of folk art on display there (right now there is a wonderful one dealing with ceramics from Tonalá and Tlaquepaque), I recommend visiting the Ethnography galleries on the second floor of the Museo Nacional de Antropología, which, unfortunately, many visitors to this world-renowned museum skip. I could go on and on, but I must end here because I have a rush translation job waiting for me.


 A nice summary of museums in the city. I am saving it for my next trip to DF.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> A nice summary of museums in the city. I am saving it for my next trip to DF.


Part II will be published shortly!


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Here is a selection of a few of the many things you can do in a brief visit.

A nice thing to do if you have just a day or two in Mexico City and you want to get an overall idea of different parts of the city is to take the Turibus. It could take anything from 3 hours to complete just the downtown route (but it will take longer if you get caught in traffic) to two days if you want to hop on—hop off, as the bus allows and/or do both routes. The Turibus tour allows you to view different types of neighbourhoods built in different eras and tells you a little about their history.

I agree that the Templo Mayor is a great visit. It is like a condensed “best-of” version of the famous Anthropology Museum. Allow about 2 to 3 hours, but you can do it in less if you don’t mind hurrying.
Just next to the Templo Mayor is the National Palace, noted for its historic murals. Less known is the Benito Juarez Museum inside the National Palace. To reach it, go down the corridor to the left (oriented as you are when you have just entered the National Palace, and the inner courtyard is in front of you). The Benito Juarez Museum displays furnishings and artifacts from the life of Juarez’s family in the apartments where they lived.

At the Garibaldi Plaza, famous for being the place where mariachi bands gather to offer their services, there is a new Tequila and Mezcal Museum. The displays show information about making of these beverages, the different varieties of them, and the mariachi culture. End your visit at the rooftop bar overlooking Garibaldi; your entrance to the museum includes tasting of one tequila and one mezcal. The visit will probably take 1 to 2 hours, depending on how closely you examine the tequila-making exhibits and how long you spend in the bar.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

A person running the Spanish language school I attend at Lake Chapala feels that, under the new immigration rules currently being applied. "Residente Permanente" is sufficient and the next step to citizenship in Mexico is an unnecessary burden to undertake and she may be right but, perhaps my experience would be enlightening for some of you when deciding whether to move on to citizenship keeping in mind that , as administrations change so may attitudes and resulting rules/laws which may effect an immigrant´s civil or property rights while those rights for citizens may remain sacrosanct.

In November, 2010, after some nine years of having to have dealt with INM annually first as a temporary resident (FM-3) and then as a permanent resident candidate (FM-2), I received my "Inmigrado" (permanent residency) papers from INM in Guadalajara and that was to be it until the end of my time on the planet in accordance with the rules applicable that day.

In 2014, INM began implementing new rules governing immigration status and, while personnel there learned to dance to new music, the organization was somewhat in disarray so the transition to new permanent resident status was not only redefined but there were significant and clumsy delays in completing the process (such as in issuing new permanent resident cards) so I was dreading re-opening that door and re-entering that bureaucratic nightmare. I could understand why the Mexican government was tightening the immigrant residency rules which, in my opinión, certainly needed to be made more stringent, but why capriciously impose new burdens on those of us having spent a decade or more qualifying for "Inmigrado" status under rules we faithfully followed. How could we, under the circumstances, feel comfortable about protecting our residency and property rights in the future as long as we were foreign residents? One way only as far as I could see. Move up the ladder to citizenship. After all, I have no intention of leaving Mexico if not forced to do so by some unanticipated health problem anomaly which can´t be attended here in Mexico - a possible but unlikely event. And, anyway, Mexico is my adopted homeland and I can retain my U.S. citizenship without compromise with dual citizenship status with the caveat that, while resident in Mexico, I must assert that I am a Mexican citizen and not assert a foreign nationality of any kind in seeking rights under the law applicable elsewhere. I can live with that.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

maesonna said:


> I agree that the Templo Mayor is a great visit. It is like a condensed “best-of” version of the famous Anthropology Museum. Allow about 2 to 3 hours, but you can do it in less if you don’t mind hurrying.


The Templo Mayor is a great museum, but it's more like an in-depth look at Mexica/Aztec culture than a "best-of" version of the MNA.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes agreed the Templo Mayor Museum is about one ethnic group the NMA is about all the various indigenous of Mexico. They are both very good but the Templo Mayor is a heck of a lot smaller although it takes a fair amount of time to go through all the floors. We spend 4 hours last time we were in there .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> yes agreed the Templo Mayor Museum is about one ethnic group the NMA is about all the various indigenous of Mexico. They are both very good but the Templo Mayor is a heck of a lot smaller although it takes a fair amount of time to go through all the floors. We spend 4 hours last time we were in there .


You are museum visitors after my own heart!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I have had the pleasure of visiting the Museum of Anthropology and the Templo Mayor in Mexico City and both visits were profoundly interesting. Great experiences and both worthwhile as excuses for visiting this great metrópolis. If I were to return to one or the other, or countless other interesting places in the city, the Templo Mayor would be imy first choice. To each his/her own. There is so much tp see and do in Mexico City - where do you start?


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