# Beware of shady people



## andi_correa (Jan 24, 2015)

Specifically TundraGreen. He openly admits to trying to take advantage of "newbies" coming to Mexico. Check out the topic "rental resources in Ensenada". I thought the whole point of this was to bring people together not showcase what a shady individual you are. Sad. Your friends needing "to make ends meet" doesn't justify exploiting someone else. At least not in my world. I try to conduct myself with more class and respect for my fellow man. Account is being deleted. There are a variety of other forums and resources available.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

andi_correa said:


> Specifically TundraGreen. He openly admits to trying to take advantage of "newbies" coming to Mexico. Check out the topic "rental resources in Ensenada". I thought the whole point of this was to bring people together not showcase what a shady individual you are. Sad. Your friends needing "to make ends meet" doesn't justify exploiting someone else. At least not in my world. I try to conduct myself with more class and respect for my fellow man. Account is being deleted. There are a variety of other forums and resources available.


I do think you're over-reacting to TG's post, and we're sorry to see you go. Good luck with your move to Ensenada.


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## andi_correa (Jan 24, 2015)

I don't think being offended by someone admitting they try to take advantage of people and wanting to distance myself from that is overreacting. I think it's the appropriate reaction. I simply choose not to associate with people that prey on others. I did however receive some good information, which I am thankful for. As soon as I'm done saving it, I'm done here. 
Sad


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

A personal reflection on living in Mexico, a propos of nothing. Life here teaches you very quickly to chill. To relax, go with the flow and not sweat the small stuff. To not get stressed or angered by petty frustrations or annoyances. For example, to accept that firm appointments people make with you may not be kept, that street directions someone gives you may be completely invented because the person thinks it rude to say they can’t help. Pointless to take offence or get upset about it……Like when you’re in any sort of queue and in a hurry, you have to accept that all the others in the queue may be content to move at a far more relaxed and slower pace than you. Before long, you’re at that pace too. You're relaxed, calm, have a long fuse and are slow to take offence to just about ANYTHING. Mexico teaches a person not to get stressed or angry or hypersensitive over things that, usually when you reflect on them, really aren’t important.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

andi_correa said:


> I don't think being offended by someone admitting they try to take advantage of people and wanting to distance myself from that is overreacting. I think it's the appropriate reaction. I simply choose not to associate with people that prey on others. I did however receive some good information, which I am thankful for. As soon as I'm done saving it, I'm done here.
> Sad


I am sorry if I offended you. 

In dealings between individuals, used car sales, apartment rentals, items in a street market for example, prices are usually flexible. I long ago learned that if I ask $11 dollars for something, then let the buyer talk me into selling it for $10, the buyer goes away thinking he got a good deal and I come away with the price I wanted. We both feel good. If I ask for $10 and refuse to reduce the price, I have a lot fewer sales and the people who do buy don't feel particularly friendly toward me. It is a basic fact of the marketplace.

If that behavior upsets you, then you should probably stay away from garage sales in the US or mercados in Mexico. And in both countries, you might want to rent apartments from big companies where the price is the price and no discussion is considered.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

buzzbar said:


> A personal reflection on living in Mexico, a propos of nothing. Life here teaches you very quickly to chill. To relax, go with the flow and not sweat the small stuff. To not get stressed or angered by petty frustrations or annoyances. For example, to accept that firm appointments people make with you may not be kept, that street directions someone gives you may be completely invented because the person thinks it rude to say they can’t help. Pointless to take offence or get upset about it……Like when you’re in any sort of queue and in a hurry, you have to accept that all the others in the queue may be content to move at a far more relaxed and slower pace than you. Before long, you’re at that pace too. You're relaxed, calm, have a long fuse and are slow to take offence to just about ANYTHING. Mexico teaches a person not to get stressed or angry or hypersensitive over things that, usually when you reflect on them, really aren’t important.


Want to get a Mexico expat fired up? Say the words "FOX News." LOL!!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Want to get a Mexico expat fired up? Say the words "FOX News." LOL!!


I totally agree the OP overreacted to the post about renting a house on the other thread and should not have.

However the several posters commenting on Fox News on the other thread was not an overreaction but an exposé of their "shady" agenda.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I totally agree the OP overreacted to the post about renting a house on the other thread and should not have.
> 
> However the several posters commenting on Fox News on the other thread was not an overreaction but an exposé of their "shady" agenda.


I rest my case! :boxing:


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

andi correa, do not be disappointed , learn from it and offer less money to the owners when you want to rent a place. No one is offended here if you do and you may get a better deal. Such is life here.

I have gone shopping with many indigenous here and I have never seen any of them not trying to bargain down. Sometimes it works , sometimes it does not and if they want the product bad enough they pay the price or just walk away. Here you alwasy have to be prepared to walk away.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

vantexan said:


> Want to get a Mexico expat fired up? Say the words "FOX News." LOL!!


Fired up? No! LOL ROF, yes.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Wow! Never have seen a reaction like that. Some folks should never leave home. I was made to feel sorry that I had tried to offer helpful advice. Maybe someone else can use it.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Segun el sapo, la pedrada.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> Segun el sapo, la pedrada.


Translation, please.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

When sizing up a customer (el sapo) for a potential deal, the asking price is based on appearence. If the sapo looks well off, the pedrada (the rock used to make the killing) will be sized accordingly.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

andi_correa said:


> Specifically TundraGreen. He openly admits to trying to take advantage of "newbies" coming to Mexico. Check out the topic "rental resources in Ensenada". I thought the whole point of this was to bring people together not showcase what a shady individual you are. Sad. Your friends needing "to make ends meet" doesn't justify exploiting someone else. At least not in my world. I try to conduct myself with more class and respect for my fellow man. Account is being deleted. There are a variety of other forums and resources available.


Uh, has anyone ever heard of "buyer beware?"


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Wow, I must have missed the thread in question where TundraGreen showed his "shady" nature.

I don't know what he said, but in nearly 8 years of following this forum I have always thought that TundraGreen was about the most level headed and decent poster I have seen on any forum I've been a part of.

Forums have a way of making things easy to take out of context or be interpreted in the wrong way. Something of that nature must have happened here, right?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

circle110 said:


> . . .
> I don't know what he said, but in nearly 8 years of following this forum I have always thought that TundraGreen was about the most level headed and decent poster I have seen on any forum I've been a part of. . ..


I totally agree. And in person he's just the same!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Cristobal said:


> When sizing up a customer (el sapo) for a potential deal, the asking price is based on appearence. If the sapo looks well off, the pedrada (the rock used to make the killing) will be sized accordingly.


I have found that this is the "rule" and not the exception in Mexico. Bargaining (contrary to most places NOB) seems to be the "game" of the day. Many extranjeros here have adopted that policy also, (when they sell or rent something here) and new people from NOB are usually not aware of that at first and often pay the asking price, but are sad when they realize how the game is played. Takes a while to "learn the ropes". NOB it could be an "offer" on a house purchase, or sometimes at a "garage sale". Newbies are used to things having their "real price" on them; in Mexico there is often no price as it sells for whatever it can be "bargained " for. When in Rome...


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> I have found that this is the "rule" and not the exception in Mexico. Bargaining (contrary to most places NOB) seems to be the "game" of the day. Many extranjeros here have adopted that policy also, (when they sell or rent something here) and new people from NOB are usually not aware of that at first and often pay the asking price, but are sad when they realize how the game is played. Takes a while to "learn the ropes". NOB it could be an "offer" on a house purchase, or sometimes at a "garage sale". Newbies are used to things having their "real price" on them; in Mexico there is often no price as it sells for whatever it can be "bargained " for. When in Rome...


To me, it is not a Mexican game, it is played everywhere in the world
Many places you cannot bargain, but many many other you would. Even in the USA isn't it?
Or am I living in a fantasy and all time I have successfully bargaining in the US have been in my imagination?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> To me, it is not a Mexican game, it is played everywhere in the world
> Many places you cannot bargain, but many many other you would. Even in the USA isn't it?
> Or am I living in a fantasy and all time I have successfully bargaining in the US have been in my imagination?


Gary, my experiences differ from yours in the USA. The only place I have ever "bargained" for things there is on the chance that I went to a "flea market" or "garage sale", which was a rare occurrence. My rent, grocery purchases, JC Penney, Sears, WalMart, mechanics, etc. etc. etc. were NEVER negotiable prices. I enjoyed their "sales" but that is quite different from "bargaining". I must admit that I have only visited Canada, too, and I did not find "bargaining" prevalent there either.
I would be interested to know where(other than what I stated) you found opportunities to bargain.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

My wife used to get angry with me when we went shopping. On every purchase, I always asked for a discount. Sometimes I got one and sometimes I didn't, but I was never afraid to ask for one.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

joaquinx said:


> My wife used to get angry with me when we went shopping. On every purchase, I always asked for a discount. Sometimes I got one and sometimes I didn't, but I was never afraid to ask for one.


I'm well aware that many countries offer "special prices" to certain customers that belong to certain groups, memberships, "old folks", etc. But, that is not "bargaining".
I would be very interested in knowing where NOB a person often has success "bargaining" for an item, besides those I stated. TIA.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> My wife used to get angry with me when we went shopping. On every purchase, I always asked for a discount. Sometimes I got one and sometimes I didn't, but I was never afraid to ask for one.


In the US? At a supermarket or department store? Sure sounds strange to me.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> In the US? At a supermarket or department store? Sure sounds strange to me.


Not at supermarkets, but in retail stores. Sometimes, they'll have a sale starting the next day or so. I'll ask to see if I can get the discounted price now rather than return in a day or so. Sometimes demo items will be discounted if asked. Large appliances such as stoves, refrigerators, furniture will be discounted if you ask. I have gotten discounts on refrigerators, sofas, computer parts, stereos and some other things that I can't remember.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

joaquinx said:


> Not at supermarkets, but in retail stores. Sometimes, they'll have a sale starting the next day or so. I'll ask to see if I can get the discounted price now rather than return in a day or so. Sometimes demo items will be discounted if asked. Large appliances such as stoves, refrigerators, furniture will be discounted if you ask. I have gotten discounts on refrigerators, sofas, computer parts, stereos and some other things that I can't remember.


Discounts or "Bargaining". There is a difference to me. Sure would like to know where you "bargained"? Not where you asked for a "discount" TIA.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Discounts or "Bargaining". There is a difference to me. Sure would like to know where you "bargained"? Not where you asked for a "discount" TIA.


It has been over 15 years since I lived in the US so I don't remember those stores. Discount or Bargaining, who cares what the difference is. I got a reduced price. Is "Bargaining" a good thing and "asking for a discount" a bad thing?


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

There is a local appliance store in Ajijic where they give you a substantial discount if you pay cash rather than use a credit card. Understandable, since the rates they pay are high.
Never hurts to ask about that.

Bargaining? That's been around since there were merchants and goods for sale. The only thing that ticks me off is if there is a different price quoted to gringos than to Mexicans, but that's life.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

joaquinx said:


> It has been over 15 years since I lived in the US so I don't remember those stores. Discount or Bargaining, who cares what the difference is. I got a reduced price. Is "Bargaining" a good thing and "asking for a discount" a bad thing?


Just looking for places NOB where I could "bargain" for a price that I was willing to pay. So far, haven't found any. Thought maybe you could help. 

I am all in favor of discounts and sales, anywhere, too. I like" bargaining" better, cause I can offer what I want to pay, and if not accepted, can walk away. Wish that was true in JCPenney, MyHEB, WalMart, HomeDepot, etc. NOB.

I always ask everywhere, if discounts are offered to "old people" , and you might be surprised at some of the nice "surprises" that I have received. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained", right j?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

lagoloo said:


> There is a local appliance store in Ajijic where they give you a substantial discount if you pay cash rather than use a credit card. Understandable, since the rates they pay are high.
> Never hurts to ask about that.
> 
> Bargaining? That's been around since there were merchants and goods for sale. The only thing that ticks me off is if there is a different price quoted to gringos than to Mexicans, but that's life.


I bought my last "hearing aids with cash, and saved the 5% credit card fee. Nice ! 

My Mexican wife didn't believe (at first) there were different prices. Now, when we buy at "bargaining places", she buys and I stay out of sight. BTW, when we go to buy, she never wears nice clothes. She knows "the ropes".


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

The only places in Mexico I would attempt to bargain are markets and tianguis. However, the other day my hair stylist offered me 5% off some fancy shampoo he wanted to sell me if I paid cash. Too bad there's no way to get a discount off his rather high haircut prices!


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

A couple of years ago I ran across a web page of a backpacker in Guatemala who asked several Guatemalans who dealt with Americans what they thought of Americans. Too often Americans would push for even lower prices on things that already were priced low. Even backpackers on a budget weren't held in high esteem because they did have money to travel, which most Guatemalans can only dream about. I feel if the price seems high, maybe because I'm a ******, then bargain. But people trying to make an honest living shouldn't be gouged either.


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## michmex (Jul 15, 2012)

*Bargaining In the USA*



coondawg said:


> Discounts or "Bargaining". There is a difference to me. Sure would like to know where you "bargained"? Not where you asked for a "discount" TIA.


As evidenced by my "Like" of Gary's post, I agree completely with him regarding bargaining in the USA. It seems, however, that we are getting into a battle over semantics and perhaps definitions both personal and generally recognized.

From Merriam-Webster.com

Bargain - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary 

Full Definition of BARGAIN

intransitive verb
1
: to negotiate over the terms of a purchase, agreement, or contract : haggle
2
: to come to terms : agree
transitive verb
1
: to bring to a desired level by bargaining <bargain a price down>
2
: to sell or dispose of by bargaining
— bar·gain·er noun
— bargain for
: expect <more work than I bargained for>"

In more general terms a discount might be applied to a purchase for everyone without specifically asking for a lesser price or perhaps an add on such as delivery. Bargaining would occur when an individual negotiates terms not generally given to everyone that walks in.

If you are not very proficient you could receive a "bad bargain" by poorly negotiating or not even asking!

In Department or specialized clothing stores I have "bargained" for a lower price, free alterations, an included extra (a free tie) when purchasing men's suits.

Almost all furniture stores or furniture departments will "bargain" with customers over price, delivery and added extras such as "fabric protection" for purchases over $200-$300 USD.

All mattress purchases can be "bargained" for regarding price and delivery.

All major appliance purchases can be "bargained for" regarding price, service contracts and delivery at Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, Sears and regional chains.

Flooring, window treatments, flooring and cabinets can be bargained for at Lowes and Home Depot.

Major electronic purchases of computers, cell phones, tablets, sound systems, tv's and the like can be bargained for at Best Buy and regional chains featuring electronics.

Purchases of both new and used vehicles are negotiated, bargained for. 

And on and on.

If you do not ask - you do not receive. I always ask and most generally receive.

If you are not, try a negotiating course from Karrass.com. Although generally they are tailored towards business negotiations they will also assist even the most hesitant individuals in "bargaining".,

In Mexico, its the same for me, especially if I detect an asking price that seems higher than normal. I have bargained for services as low as shoe shine to the purchase of our home.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

By all means, let us not get lost in semantics.

When you bargain successfully, you receive a discount. End of story, IMO.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> The only places in Mexico I would attempt to bargain are markets and tianguis. !


You know, I.V., I think those places (along with street vendors) are basically the only places in any country where a person can "bargain". In the US, there are almost no street vendors, and the markets and tianguis are called "flea markets", "garage sales", "yard sales" , "swap meets", or something similar. These are usually attended, not by the wealthy, but mostly by lower income people on a regular basis, as in Mexico and other countries. Here, there is much more demand for those because of the large population of poor. Most larger stores and businesses have set prices everywhere.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> You know, I.V., I think those places (along with street vendors) are basically the only places in any country where a person can "bargain". In the US, there are almost no street vendors, and the markets and tianguis are called "flea markets", "garage sales", "yard sales" , "swap meets", or something similar. These are usually attended, not by the wealthy, but mostly by lower income people on a regular basis, as in Mexico and other countries. Here, there is much more demand for those because of the large population of poor. . . .


I think that Mexicans of most social classes (except maybe the super-rich) shop at mercados and tianguis, at least they do in my middle-class neighborhood in Mexico City.


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