# Frustrations with Valencia and schooling



## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

I have come to realize that when I moved to Spain 2 years ago I was very naive to the differences between the communities that make up Spain. Valencia being just about a seperate country to Spain. 

Our children speak fluent valenciano and Spanish they were 5 and 7 when we came out, and they went to a Spanish state school, we had a lot of difficult times with the 7 year old but together we won through. 

We moved here for a quality of life that we feel we are able to only achieve in the summer. As soon as school returns it is so full on that I am really questioning whether we have picked the right area to live in. 

My children get on the bus at 8, 30 and I collect them at 6.15 school finishes at 5.15 but because they do not get the support with valenciano (I learnt Spanish and not valenciano) they have to go to the homework club for foreigners, very often they have homework to finish at home until 7.00 - 7.30 eat then bed, the only time they get to play is at xmas, Easter and summer holidays. The weekends there is more homework, English lessons so they are exhausted and don’t want to do anything. ARE OTHER AREAS OF SPAIN SO FULL ON AT SCHOOL? IS THERE AN AREA WHERE PRIMARY SCHOOL CHILDREN CAN FINISH EARLIER SO THE KIDS CAN HAVE A LIFE OTHER THAN SCHOOL?

My children are in the progressive valenciano stream at school, with class sizes of 12 and 16 perfect, but the only other children in these classes are also foreigners, i.e. Moroccans and south Americans, and an occasional other European. Although now my 9 year old has all lessons in valenciano and only Spanish twice a week. 

The problem is this prevents my children from being able to integrate fully with the locals who without a doubt are raciest towards any foreigner, it does not matter where they are from even Spanish friends of mine have the same problems, their children are also considered outsiders. I am concerned that when they are of an age they will not be able to study at Spanish universities because they simply do not have the language skills, and if they study or look for work within the valenciano universities or communities they will be exclude because they are outsiders. It has taken 2 years of really hard work to establish ourselves as much as we have with work etc and although it would be very difficult to move and re establish ourselves, it is not impossible,

DO WE MOVE TO "REAL SPAIN" TO GIVE OUR CHILDREN BETTER CHANCES OF A FUTURE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE AND THEY LOOSE WHAT THEY HAVE ALREADY LEARNT OF THE SPANISH LANGUAGE? (We did not buy here because we are still not sure what we want so are not tied to a property)


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

lol sorry do ramble on don't i tried to explain our personal circumstances


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris said:


> lol sorry do ramble on don't i tried to explain our personal circumstances



I think its an excellent post. It kinda sums up how things are in Spain and how life isnt necessarily the "relaxed" and "quality" lifestyle that people strive for.

jo xxxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chris said:


> I have come to realize that when I moved to Spain 2 years ago I was very naive to the differences between the communities that make up Spain. Valencia being just about a seperate country to Spain.
> 
> Our children speak fluent valenciano and Spanish they were 5 and 7 when we came out, and they went to a Spanish state school, we had a lot of difficult times with the 7 year old but together we won through.
> 
> ...


sounds dreadful!!

we're only just down the road in Jávea & it couldn't be more different!!

we have been here 8 years now, the first year my 2 went to International school & when we decided to stay we moved them to state school - the Arenal primary school

they were then 5 & nearly 9

they both went into the Castellano stream & school starts at 9am & finishes at 4.30 with lunch from 12.30- 3.00

yes there is tons of homework, and yes at first they had extra language support, but during school hours

my younger dd is dyslexic & she had extra help during school hours too

at various times if they needed extra help with Valenciano, maths or whatever, there was extra help - again during school hours

both are now in secondary school - the younger one in her first year & the elder in her last obligatory year (she will be staying 2 more years after this school year for Bachi)- the elder one chose to move to the Valenciano line in secondary school

at every turn, if they have needed help it has been there - & neither they, nor us parents, have EVER experienced any racism


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> I think its an excellent post. It kinda sums up how things are in Spain and how life isnt necessarily the "relaxed" and "quality" lifestyle that people strive for.
> 
> jo xxxx


the weird thing is - he's a 10 minute drive from me & it's like a different country!


Gata is well-known to be heavily Valenciano though


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> the weird thing is - he's a 10 minute drive from me!


Maybe you can offer him some tips and advise, cos he's not as happy as you are!!!

Jo xxx


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

What about a school change? Might involve a move a tiny bit down the road, but since you haven't bought yet? It really sounds bad.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Maybe you can offer him some tips and advise, cos he's not as happy as you are!!!
> 
> Jo xxx



from what I know of Gata - they'll have to do this................


Seb* said:


> What about a school change? Might involve a move a tiny bit down the road, but since you haven't bought yet? It really sounds bad.


Jávea is just 10 mins away


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

lol he is a she, and javea is very expensive to rent, apartments are reasonable but as we have two dogs and two cats we need a garden and all the villas are way to expensive. I love gata as a town, for me being an outsider is not a problem, i'm a big girl and can tolerate it, i even go to a pilates class in valenciano have no idea what they are saying but watch and learn lol even though i keep getting told off for not having my head straight, its my children i worry for. 

I really think this problem with school has to be resolved somehow, just don't know what to do for the best. Have considered moving to javea but have also thought about going south where they only speak 1 language as moving to javea may solve one problem but im not sure it will ease my mind on the whole, regarding the difficulties with valenciano, spanish language issue. Have asked the teachers if the children can do their homework at lunch time so they have more time in the evening, but they have said no because they think the children need a break at lunch time!!! Spanish children do not go to bed until 10.00 + so the teachers think i am the abnormal one for putting mine to bed at 8.30, think it is a cultural thing as well. 

Last year they did not have to go to the homework club and were able to do karate twice a week in gata which they really enjoyed and gave them more than just school, i have been told that next year they will get even more homework.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chris said:


> lol *he is a she*, and javea is very expensive to rent, apartments are reasonable but as we have two dogs and two cats we need a garden and all the villas are way to expensive. I love gata as a town, for me being an outsider is not a problem, i'm a big girl and can tolerate it, i even go to a pilates class in valenciano have no idea what they are saying but watch and learn lol even though i keep getting told off for not having my head straight, its my children i worry for.
> 
> I really think this problem with school has to be resolved somehow, just don't know what to do for the best. Have considered moving to javea but have also thought about going south where they only speak 1 language as moving to javea may solve one problem but im not sure it will ease my mind on the whole, regarding the difficulties with valenciano, spanish language issue. Have asked the teachers if the children can do their homework at lunch time so they have more time in the evening, but they have said no because they think the children need a break at lunch time!!! Spanish children do not go to bed until 10.00 + so the teachers think i am the abnormal one for putting mine to bed at 8.30, think it is a cultural thing as well.
> 
> Last year they did not have to go to the homework club and were able to do karate twice a week in gata which they really enjoyed and gave them more than just school, i have been told that next year they will get even more homework.


oops  don't mind me - I'm always doing that :confused2:

it does sound bad - but how are they actually doing at school?

are they succeeding?

You say they are fluent in Spanish - if that _is_ the case then they should be OK going to uni anywhere in Spain - that's not going to be a problem

is there no way the school will allow them to move to the Castellano line? 

you could go in & pour your heart out the way you have here


the out-of-school homework clubs are usually run by the social workers - maybe you could throw yourself at their mercy

imo - one thing you could definitely drop is the formal English lessons - as long as you keep them reading _anything_ in English, they should be fine


if none of that works - and you are still so unhappy about things - then I think you have no option but to move - & Jávea might not be as expensive as you think - we still rent - we have a 5 bed house for which we pay less than we paid for a 3 bed apartment 8 years ago

yes, there is still somewhat of an issue with Valenciano - but the language of the street is generally Castellano & it is certainly the language of the playground - yes some kids will speak to each other in Valenciano - but they are a minority -although I have heard my 2 speaking Valenciano with their friends sometimes

but the way I look at it - the more languages they learn at a young age, the better


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sorry, theres no way of kowing whether people are "*he's*" or "*she's*" on here til we get chatting a bit more 

Jo xxx


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

They are despite everything doing well not top or bottom of their class either, they both speak Spanish and valenciano although they are in progressive valenciano (Spanish stream) my sons Spanish is getting worse. Here they have Valenciano or progressive Valenciano, in which each year they do more subjects in Valenciano, now my 9 year old studies all valenciano except English 1 a week and Spanish 2 a week. The language on the street and in the playground is valenciano. Yet at comedor the language is Spanish due to the fact that most of the Valencianos go home for lunch. The homework club is run by the headmaster, who is a wonderfully kind and gentle man who my children love, and is in valenciano and Spanish, everything else is valenciano, that’s the problem. Even when they are being taught Spanish the issues are discussed in valenciano! They will lose their Spanish ability. I have tried to talk to the headmaster along with a Spanish friend about the streams preventing full and proper integration but he says that is what he has to do. There is a complete refusal of parents and the general community to speak Spanish and reject all that is not Valenciano. I have a very influential Spanish friend who helps me with legal stuff and even she had a huge argument with the receptionist at the medical centre because they tried and tried to find ways of not giving me my sip even though I had the papers from Denia, living here is lovely until you have to deal with any officialdom, they see all outsiders as a financial drain on there resources. 

All languages are important but I feel really concerned that my children are not valenciano so will always be outsiders, yet if things carry on they will not have enough Spanish ability to succeed in Spain!

I need to do the English because my daughter can speak nonstop but cannot read or write very well, it was a huge joke with the teachers last year when my son failed one of his English exams!!! We have spent so much time and energy on Spanish, Valenciano, that I really want both of them to re learn their mother tongue.

Can you tell me what is involved with the castellano stream in Javea is it the same here (progressive Valenciano) please don’t get me wrong I love the fact that my children are fluent in both but really feel it goes too far into the valenciano here.

Will keep checking all the usual websites for villas in Javea, is there any that you would recommend. Thank you really appreciate it, I need to take the pressure off my children somehow


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chris said:


> I have come to realize that when I moved to Spain 2 years ago I was very naive to the differences between the communities that make up Spain. Valencia being just about a seperate country to Spain.
> 
> Our children speak fluent valenciano and Spanish they were 5 and 7 when we came out, and they went to a Spanish state school, we had a lot of difficult times with the 7 year old but together we won through.
> 
> ...


I sympathise with your children who went from being monolingual English speakers to being expected to be trilingual in a foreign country and foreign environment.
Some thing's got to give somewhere, and I would have thought it would be the Valenciano. IMO there's no point in fighting the attitude towards the minority languages in schools. Many of the decisions are not up to the schools themselves anyway and there's no way they'd change anything anyway, even if they were able to. 
However, if you're going to continue living long term in Gato de Gorgos would giving up Valenciano be the right decision? Also, apart from the language issues there seems to be a problem with the time table. Would the timetable improve if she/ they moved schools? Wouldn't there be more travelling time to factor in?
BTW is this a state school? Finishing at 5:15 is the latest I've ever heard a state school finishing.
I hope people who want to move to Catalonia, Galicia, Valencia and the Basque country (have I missed anyone out?) read this so that they realise what they are asking of their children.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chris said:


> They are despite everything doing well not top or bottom of their class either, they both speak Spanish and valenciano although they are in progressive valenciano (Spanish stream) my sons Spanish is getting worse. Here they have Valenciano or progressive Valenciano, in which each year they do more subjects in Valenciano, now my 9 year old studies all valenciano except English 1 a week and Spanish 2 a week. The language on the street and in the playground is valenciano. Yet at comedor the language is Spanish due to the fact that most of the Valencianos go home for lunch. The homework club is run by the headmaster, who is a wonderfully kind and gentle man who my children love, and is in valenciano and Spanish, everything else is valenciano, that’s the problem. Even when they are being taught Spanish the issues are discussed in valenciano! They will lose their Spanish ability. I have tried to talk to the headmaster along with a Spanish friend about the streams preventing full and proper integration but he says that is what he has to do. There is a complete refusal of parents and the general community to speak Spanish and reject all that is not Valenciano. I have a very influential Spanish friend who helps me with legal stuff and even she had a huge argument with the receptionist at the medical centre because they tried and tried to find ways of not giving me my sip even though I had the papers from Denia, living here is lovely until you have to deal with any officialdom, they see all outsiders as a financial drain on there resources.
> 
> All languages are important but I feel really concerned that my children are not valenciano so will always be outsiders, yet if things carry on they will not have enough Spanish ability to succeed in Spain!
> 
> ...


in the Arenal school in Jávea there isn't a huge difference between the castellano line & the valenciano

the castellano line does about 60% castellano & 40% valenciano - the valenciano the other way round

although my younger dd is in the castellano line in secondary, a lot of her text books are actually in valenciano - but they have gradually built up the proportion of valenciano & day to day chit chat is in castellano

saying that - all paperwork from the school is in valenciano

I think the main difference is in the attitude to foreigners - Gata is well-known for not being very accepting - even of Spanish people from other parts of Spain - even from Jávea!!

there are lots & lots of properties to rent here atm - we found this one by just driving/cycling/walking around & taking numbers down - that really is the best way


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## thelastspud (Oct 24, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I hope people who want to move to Catalonia, Galicia, Valencia and the Basque country (have I missed anyone out?) read this so that they realise what they are asking of their children.


I think they speak a type of catalan out on the islas baleares


I remember when I went to school, I started at 9 and finished at 3 with an hour for lunch. I wouldn't want my kids (hypothetical kids) to miss out on those 3-4 hours in the afternoon playing sport or maybe learning a musical instrument. I think that sort of development is important too. 

I think its a huge ask to be trilingual, Maybe some kids have it easier I heard of kids with english mum, german dad living in spain.

By the way did you look at that English test your son failed? I just finished coaching a friend to pass Oposiciones to teach primary school English and he wasn't the best.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2011)

There's a few primary schools around that are doing full day, 9-3 or so schedules and *not* stopping for the Spanish midday lunch break. If you're concerned, you could try to find one. I would say, however, that compared to the locals your kids are going to bed wicked early! If they stayed up later, they'd have time to play


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> There's a few primary schools around that are doing full day, 9-3 or so schedules and *not* stopping for the Spanish midday lunch break. If you're concerned, you could try to find one. I would say, however, that compared to the locals your kids are going to bed wicked early! If they stayed up later, they'd have time to play


there have been discussions about changing the timetabling in this region for years - nothing has yet changed - although I had no idea that some were at school as late as 5.15, I'm pretty sure that none of the primary schools are yet on a 9-3 schedule

yes, I agree that they are going to bed very early - it's something that we gradually adapted to, although my 2 still go to bed a little earlier than some of their Spanish friends - the primary school has actually tried to persuade Spanish parents to adopt 'English' bedtime habits - but the parents have resisted on the basis that working parents would never get to see their kids in the evenings

the thing is, even 8.30 or 9 would be considered late in the UK for kids that age - I have friends there whose kids of that age are in bed by 7pm!


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Ramble away Chris, I'm in Lliber and have the same issues with my daughter !


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Thanks guys yes pesky wesky they are at state school, but they finish at 5.00 they have 15 minuets to play then start homework club. If i knew then what i know now i would have moved to a Spanish speaking only area. 

My children are incredible, fluent in like you say three languages and can pick up when and as needed, they also speak a little dutch due to dutch friends, ironically the only nationalities that they do not have friends with is Valenciano and English, The language streams set up as they are make it very difficult for the children to socalise together and build friendships outside of their school language group, it also reinforces negative attitudes Valenciano children get from home because they are in effect segregated from the positive effects and influences that outsiders can offer.

Xabia chica 60% spanish sounds very good to me, living in Valencia you have to expect that the children need to know the local language but here it is 90% Valenciano and that is in the Spanish stream, I think i am going to find out more about living in Javea, even if i dont get everything then being away from the negative attitude has surley got to be a plus. Halydia i challange anyone to get my children out of bed at 7.30 on a school day if they go to bed later than 8.30 - 9.00 lol not a pretty sight, they do get to stay up late on a friday and saturday and can xbox their hearts out  i will however check out other schools in Spain because i completley agree with thelastspud that after school activites are also a vital part of development, they were going to karate twice a week, taught in valenciano and Japonese!!! but there is simply not the time any more.
Thanks Guys really appreciate your comments it gives me more options to think about

PS
thelastspud i dont need to see the test to know that he failed it was SPELLING lol hence the English lessons which they are enjoying at the moment because i am paying them to go!!!!!


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

djfwells lliber has been the place that i aspire to, love the area. If i decided to buy round here lliber would have been it! tell me more, shatter my illusions, before i make another mistake.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

chris said:


> djfwells lliber has been the place that i aspire to, love the area. If i decided to buy round here lliber would have been it! tell me more, shatter my illusions, before i make another mistake.


lliber is a fantastic village, so aspire away (Just be aware that about 300 of the 500 properties here are illegal, so all that glitters etc...)


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