# Assimilation issues regarding UK ex-pats in Spain



## theredlads (Jul 18, 2008)

Today, I had a chance to watch a documentary called "White Immigrants", which was produced by Al Jazeera English. Despite its fairly vague title, it was mainly focused on British ex-pats who left their country of birth in order to live in Spain - Britain's all-time favourite holiday destination. 

However, what I saw on the programme was some pathetic ex-pats who refused interact with their new neighbours and culture. Instead, they lived an all-English life, which practically was not so different from what they had back in the UK, besides the Sun. In the little town of San Fulgencio, it was bustling with English residents talking only in English, signboards in English, and English shops only designed for English people. According to some German resident who also lived in San Fulgencio, the town was divided into two parts - the English quarter and the Spanish one. And apparently, she was the only one routinely travelling both sides, as she was working as a translator for both English and Spaniards. In other words, the English were forming almost a "ghetto" for themselves. 

According to the programme, the English lived just like how they did back in England. Many of them worked for the local English newspaper - Leaders and for other English business. English mums took their toddlers to an English nursery, not a Spanish one. English kids, who had to be sent to Spanish schools were not interacting so much with their Spanish classmates because of their language skills. 

Many say that the Americans are the worst linguists of all time, but I think that the English come to a close second. Many English ex-pats, one of which claimed to have lived in Spain for 11 years, could not even count to 10 in Spanish. Many stuttered and some could not even complete the task. As a result, the ex-pats were only speaking English at all occasions, even when meeting the mayor for important discussions. To be honest, I can't imagine an Asian man coming up to Boris Johnson, only to talk to him in Bengal. Clearly, this was not a right thing to do. 

The problem for these ex-pats who refused to interact with the Spanish community was that they expected the Spaniards to "embrace them". I think there is an attitude issue here. If they feel like "adventuring" to eat in Spanish restaurants and refuse to attend local-held events (only to hold an All-English 60's Disco Party), how on earth could the Spaniards embrace these ex-pats roaming around their ghetto? 

They seem to expect the Spaniard to speak good English and understand English culture they bring into Spain. When a local candidate spoke to ex-pat mothers in good English as a part of his election campaign, not a single mother could go up to him and say "gracias, senor". But instead, they said "thank you" in a monotonic voice, like they expected him to do such favour. With such an apathetic attitude, these ex-pats will not be considered proper members of the community no matter how many years they lived under the Sun. 

However, I understand that not all ex-pats live in such ghettos. I am an ex-pat myself, and moved to America in Summer of 2005. I know how difficult it is to live in a completely new environment, especially in a county whose national language is not English. I don't expect them to cut off all connections (emotional and social) from their country of birth. I occasionally visit the local pub (which serves fish tacos) and catch some games of "football" every week. It is okay to keep in touch with English culture and friends when you are living abroad. I do it and everyone does it. 

But, I think the least you should do is to respect your local community and its culture, whether similar to English culture or completely different. You should learn its language to a point that you don't need a translator to see a doctor. You should visit their theatres, watch their movies, listen to their music and eat or even cook their food. Honestly, what is the point of living in Spain if you could have moved to Australia, where you don't need to try so hard to assimilate? Besides that Spain is a lot closer to England, I don't see any point. 

Last but not least, I think we all have some double standards. We expect the immigrants coming into UK to fully assimilate to British society and culture. But if we don't do it ourselves when we are abroad, then our expectation would become something laughable - which will eventually make British culture something ignorable at home. I think it's especially important that younger people make a change in their lifestyle a.s.a.p as older immigrants may find it more difficult to adapt to their new environment. 

So come on, if I could speak better Spanish than you by working with Hispanic patients (I haven't driven down to Mexico....yet), then you have a problem. Be nice to your neighbours, interact with them a lot, but don't forget your British roots.

James K.,
from Malibu, California


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Excellent post, James!

The very same problem exists in France and probably in most countries where there are large numbers of anglophone expats. The reason you don't see this as often with the Americans overseas is probably simply because there aren't nearly as many of them.

I'm American by origin and initially got involved with a number of "American expat groups" here in France. What turned me off about them was the long-lasting focus on the issues "back home" even after many of them had lived here for 20 or 30 years. (Though I must say the US culture encourages this by their policies on voting and taxing citizens resident overseas.)

And the Amis (as the Germans call them) have the same problem as the Brits - they expect immigrants in the US to adapt to local ways and speak flawless English without doing the same themselves in a foreign culture. (The ones who adapt successfully you never notice.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

excellent post. I agree that when immigrants go to the UK I expect them to intergrate and "become" British - in fact I used to wonder why they were there if all they wanted to do was turn a piece of the UK into their own country. Its the same here and I desperately want to be Spanish and intergrate, I came here cos I didnt like the UK, I dont want to be in "The UK in the sun". Brits can be so arrogant sometimes cant they!

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

I think you'll find the TRUTH is somewhere in-between though. "Al Jazeera" is not ENTIRELY pro-British - and some Brits are not exactly Pro-Arab. I can imagine the reason behind it - Some TV report talking about Ghettos in the UK?

I know Brits here that after 11 years are still mono linguistic - Also Germans and French - even Swiss. I've seen Turks in Germany unable to speak German despite having worked for BAYER 25years! - ditto Iraquis/Iranies.

It's not a PURELY English thing. It's a visible issue in the English speaking peoples though. Why? - because info is generally plentiful and available (NOT censored). It's especially visible in Spain too. But equally I've seen Spaniards bunch together in other countries - it's a NATURAL response to discomfort. I still shudder thinking of the SPANISH club next to BAYER. If folk thought that was Spain - nobody would EVER want to integrate with Spaniards.

My view of things has always been that if I MIGRATE to somewhere - Then I'm obliged to integrate. The "Ex-Pat" mindset to me suggests quite the opposite of the dictionary definition. it seems to symbolise a reluctance to let go.

I freely admit that I prefer to watch ENGLISH films in the original language. but the same applies to Spanish or German films. Too much gets lost in translation. But I watch Spanish TV (the little TV I watch) and cant be bothered with SKY etc.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> And the Amis (as the Germans call them) have the same problem as the Brits - they expect immigrants in the US to adapt to local ways and speak flawless English without doing the same themselves in a foreign culture. (The ones who adapt successfully you never notice.)Bev


I have a rather amusing anecdote from the US (Georgetown-DC) - where I was asked if I spoke English as I could not make head or tail of the question being directed to me. My response "Yes -but quite honestly, I'm unsure whether you do" in a most BBC-WORLD-SERVICE voice was met with genuine confusion. Out shot a guy from the kitchen - and the question resolved - "Did I wish mayonnaise"?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> I have a rather amusing anecdote from the US (Georgetown-DC) - where I was asked if I spoke English as I could not make head or tail of the question being directed to me. My response "Yes -but quite honestly, I'm unsure whether you do" in a most BBC-WORLD-SERVICE voice was met with genuine confusion. Out shot a guy from the kitchen - and the question resolved - "Did I wish mayonnaise"?


I can counter with a similar tale. When I was working in the plant in Germany, I was very nearly the only English speaker in the plant, so I always got to meet with anyone visiting from the home office in the US or the divisional office in the UK.

A bunch of engineers from the US were over, studying our production methods and they found refuge in my office. I was lectured for some time about how "things will be much better" when "you" deregulate your phone companies and the other utilities in Germany. Then they complimented me on how well I spoke English. It apparently never crossed their minds that I might be "one of them."

BTW, my British friends also used to tell me that I "spoke English pretty well for an American." 
Cheers,
Bev


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> "spoke English pretty well for an American."


Well explain to them it's "Spoak Inglish purdy well (or reel gud) fer a 'mercan". 

How anybody can mistake my accent for ANYTHING other than (ever so) British defeats me. I did get to being accused of being Dutch speaking German - but here - I'm instantly discernible as "Anglo-Guiri". 

One cant go totally "native", after all - simply wouldn't be cricket.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

You are not entirely wrong James K but just the other day we landed at Gatwick airport after a long haul and wished a shower to freshen up before our next flight. The showers are managed by a company who you have to call over a telephone link and then someone shows up. First a lady who could understand us quite well but her colleague, literally could not understand fairly simple English. There are places in the UK where you jump on a bus and find the driver is unable at all to converse in English language. There also places where, if you have to investigate something on a door to door basis as in law enforcement, you find also these non-english speaking ghettos.

Where I will agree with you and also add something is that many of us live in mixed culture society. Not only should we respect the views, languages and cultures of others but to encourage communication in whatever language we are speaking, we should really try and speak more slowly and clearly than we might have used to in a mono-lingual society. When I speak Spanish with a spaniard, as soon as he/she finds I can speak a little, they fall into their ultra-rapid-no-break-for-breath lingo and I just have to ask again and again for them to slow down.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

El Capitan said:


> You are not entirely wrong James K but just the other day we landed at Gatwick airport after a long haul and wished a shower to freshen up before our next flight. The showers are managed by a company who you have to call over a telephone link and then someone shows up. First a lady who could understand us quite well but her colleague, literally could not understand fairly simple English. There are places in the UK where you jump on a bus and find the driver is unable at all to converse in English language. There also places where, if you have to investigate something on a door to door basis as in law enforcement, you find also these non-english speaking ghettos.
> 
> Where I will agree with you and also add something is that many of us live in mixed culture society. Not only should we respect the views, languages and cultures of others but to encourage communication in whatever language we are speaking, we should really try and speak more slowly and clearly than we might have used to in a mono-lingual society. When I speak Spanish with a spaniard, as soon as he/she finds I can speak a little, they fall into their ultra-rapid-no-break-for-breath lingo and I just have to ask again and again for them to slow down.


And if the driver is unable to speak English he/she is very unlikely to be able to read written Englsh, road signs come to mind. Cambio de Sentido signs in Spain taught me that you need the basics at the very least.


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

And if we had all intergrated we would´nt need Expatforum, BTW, I agree with Chris, its just the English, I can take you into Finnish, Danish ghettoes here on the Costa del Sol, Is the problem because English is the second widely spoken language on the planet?. If Finnish was more widely spoken would we complaning about them?.


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## theredlads (Jul 18, 2008)

*I do understand that it is not strictly an English phenomenon*

By the way, I think it is important to expose yourself to non-western media often in order to view many affairs in different angles. Al Jazeera is not necessarily pro-Arab as its name may suggest and its English network is run by staffs in four different locations, Doha, London, D.C. and Kuala Lumpur. It provides broad coverage on affairs taking place in less developed part of the world, which CNN or BBC does not always manage to do. What I want to say, Chris, is that just because the documentary was produced by Al Jazeera, it does not mean that it has less credibility than other western-produced documentaries. Its attitude toward the British ex-pats was something far from a hostile one, but this is another story. 

Chris, I do understand that immigrants like to live closer to their fellow immigrants. Living in Los Angeles area, I have observed the Vietnamese in O.C., Koreans in Downtown, Chinese in San Gabriel and etc. In fact, I have dealt with many Hispanic patients who often could not speak a word in English, who desperately needed my guidance in Spanish. Indeed, there is a bitter argument over whether these immigrants should be integrated to the "mainstream" and live what they call an "American life", here in California. But, I feel that in a country where a bunch of Europeans invaded to massacre the existing "Indians", the issue is slightly different from what I think should happen in countries with long histories like the UK, Spain, Japan and etc. 

Spain is a country "founded" thousands of years ago. You can count on the Iberians, Romans, Visigoths and so on, but it would not be possible for me to write down the Spanish history in its entirety in such a little slot I have got. Unlike in the US, Spaniards have gained a right to preserve their culture in their ancient land and all ex-pats coming into Spain, whether English or German, should be concerned. I know that the British are not the only ones forming "ghettos" in Spain. I bet you my life that there are Chinatowns in Madrid and Barcelona to start with. There are many North Africans who came to Spain for better wages. And on the top of it, there are North Europeans, like the Britons, who invaded the Spanish shores for Spain's gorgeous weather and beaches. 

I didn't write this to insult those featured in the documentary. It's a fairly natural thing to do. However, it seemed that they did not have too much concern for the preservation of the Spanish culture, which I think many immigrants fail to do in their countries of residence. You may think, while reading my thoughts, that I am underestimating what those ex-pats had to go through while they were settling in their new country. You would be partially right, if that is the case. I am an ex-pat in America, which speaks the same language and shares some aspects of the Anglo-British culture. And you are right to think that my lifestyle did not have to change too much when I moved to Calif from a little town in Kent. In fact, I still kept my "accent", which seems to amuse many Yanks over here. 

However, the truth is that I am a naturalized British citizen who was not born in the British territory or to British parents. English was not my first language. But it somehow made its way to be my "dominant" language, which I use everyday to think, speak, amuse myself and others. As a child of immigrants, I was expected to adopt the "new" way of life in every aspect. Of course, it would be difficult to assess if one has truly embraced the culture of one's country of residence. But I do consider myself an "Englishman" who got pissed very badly in June as England failed to make it to the Euro Finals, hates everything about France except its food and landscape and does everything else you can possibly expect from other Englishmen. I know that it would be a lot harder for you folks as you are much older than I was when I was embracing my "new" culture. I don't expect you to pick up the Spanish language as I quickly learned English. It would be awful lot harder for you all if you had not been schooled in Spain, taught Spanish in Spanish or have a bunch of Spanish acquaintances. 

Your Spanish neighbours aren't pissed off at you just because you are English. My native English neighbours welcomed me and my family as we tried to learn their way and to live like them. It's all about what you have in your mind. If you make that little effort to learn about the "Spanish way of life" the Spaniards will welcome you and will embrace you as a part of their community, just like how I was well-accepted in England. It's a human instinct (unless if you are French and look down on new-comers who make tremendous efforts but don't speak fluent French).

So really, open up your heart. You wouldn't want the immigrants in the UK to seclude themselves from the rest of the society, would you? Just because 'the others' (like the Danes and Germans) do it, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right thing to do. 

I think enough is said by now. You don't have to agree on all of my points, but I just don't want you to think that I am looking down on British ex-pats who have difficulties adjusting in Spanish communities. 

Cheers,
James K. from Calif.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

theredlads said:


> Chris, I do understand that immigrants like to live closer to their fellow immigrants.


Therein lies the difference. I understand the factors . but do not "understand". 

I make a "bloody minded" point of NOT looking for other immigrants <in my case English speakers>. When we lived in Germany - My wife (who's Spanish) avoided looking for Spaniards. It's why I post here - to TRY and get folk to see that integrating IS the way to live here. Not because I "need" English contact. I have a HEAVY UK accent - but really only use Spanish on a daily basis now.

Al Jazeera is, as you say, "not bad" - BUT when you understand how ALL Journalism works then it's easy to see why certain types of articles appear. I work amongst Spanish Politicians and I have in a past life "influenced" the publication of certain types of (mainly technical) "independent" articles (that just happened to support my needs) in VERY prestigious journals - It's not hard at all to do. Generally it involves "funding" or "prestige" for somebody.

The BBC World Service iirc was (maybe still is) like Al Jazeera(English) regarding news in developing nations - But where I live there's no longer decent reception and I cant be bothered anyway. I knew a Journalist here who contributes to BBC-WS - I say knew as we've lost contact.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> Therein lies the difference. I understand the factors . but do not "understand".
> 
> I make a "bloody minded" point of NOT looking for other immigrants <in my case English speakers>. When we lived in Germany - My wife (who's Spanish) avoided looking for Spaniards. It's why I post here - to TRY and get folk to see that integrating IS the way to live here. Not because I "need" English contact. I have a HEAVY UK accent - but really only use Spanish on a daily basis now.


I've had experience as an expat (albeit an American expat) with both extremes. For my first couple years in Germany, I avoided contact with the local "Anglo-German Friendship Club" - and was certainly established in a part of Germany where there were few, if any, other Americans around. Frankly, I was lonely - because it can be difficult to make friends with the locals if you don't understand their customs and ways of thinking. When I finally joined the Anglo-German group, I found that knowing a few long-time Brits (I had lived in Britain for a while) really helped, simply because there was someone I could ask when local customs baffled me. (Asking my German acquaintances didn't always work because they didn't understand my question - everything they did seemed completely obvious to them.)

When I moved to the Paris area, I was spoilt for all the choice of American and Brit expat groups - and that's when I found that associating only with your own countrymen could also be a real drag. Lots of these folks have never mentally left "the old country" and are still fighting battles back there that really don't concern them anymore.

Ultimately, what I found was a local "welcome club" close to home that just happens to have a broadly international membership. True, the members are kind of classed into "foreigners" and French - and even my taking French nationality will never get me considered as "really French", as one member took great joy in telling me - but it's a good way to get the best of both worlds. It's also nice to be able to help some of the newcomers from China or Spain or Romania by trying to explain how things work here so maybe they can avoid some of the gaffes we all made on arrival. 

Being married to a Frenchman, I sort of "have to" respect the French customs and ways of living. Certain things about my way of life will probably never change, though I have certainly learned that things here in France are bloody unlikely to change to accommodate me, either. To me that's what integrating is all about.
Cheers,
Bev


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Ultimately, what I found was a local "welcome club" close to home that just happens to have a broadly international membership. .. It's also nice to be able to help some of the newcomers from China or Spain or Romania by trying to explain how things work here so maybe they can avoid some of the gaffes we all made on arrival.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Firstly, thankyou all for making this an extremely interesting thread. As an Australian about to embark on the adventure of a life time, it does reinforce what I have been telling my children and my own views on how life should be in a foreign country. 

Secondly, Bev the "welcome club" you refer to is a fantastic idea as long as it is used in that manner. But then isn't that what this forum is too. Have a look at some of the threads here. Many people asking for information regarding spanish customs, regulations, way of life, cost of living. I don't recall anyone asking where they could find a group of their countrymen so that they don't have to assimilate. But then I am new to the forum too, and maybe a little niaive. 

I believe strongly that if we are to set off an our adventure whatever the reasons for it and what ever the course of it shall be then we must view as just that. Get on board, sit down, shutup and hang on. Well, maybe not shut up. But I am sure you all know what I mean. 

Having said all this. I wonder what some of your experiences have been of learning on your adventures. Maybe we should start a new thread about that one!

Kym


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

dizzy said:


> Secondly, Bev the "welcome club" you refer to is a fantastic idea as long as it is used in that manner. But then isn't that what this forum is too. Have a look at some of the threads here. Many people asking for information regarding spanish customs, regulations, way of life, cost of living. I don't recall anyone asking where they could find a group of their countrymen so that they don't have to assimilate. But then I am new to the forum too, and maybe a little niaive.


The big difference with the "welcome club" is that it's a French association, with the primary goal of welcoming newly arrived French people into the area. 

One thing about the French culture is that it is very much centered on the family for social life and activities. It's still a fairly recent phenomenon that the French will consider moving any distance (away from kit and kin) for their jobs - and so this welcome club was developed to try and ease the transition for folks who found themselves in an area where they didn't have family.

The inclusion of foreigners kind of came later - and it's one reason why this welcome club works out so nicely for those of us not necessarily looking for our own countrymen to hang out with. And, as I have told many folks, I've made most of my French friends through the English language activity - we have lots of French who want to practice their English. For a change, as a "foreigner" (I'm a French national these days) I have something to give back in terms of welcoming them to the area.
Cheers,
Bev


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Kym - sometimes you have read between the lines a bit. I've seen a fair few posts on here from folk with no knowledge of Spanish expecting to find work and looking directly at HIGH English speaking areas. 

My contact with English "enclaves" has never been strong (from choice as well as location) but I witnessed the same in a Spanish friends (now) ex-husband. A German who arrived in Spain a long time ago. He moved to an area filled with German ex-pats. I think that he maybe intended to assimilate slowly, but he built a carpentry business on German ex-pats. He appeared quite at home here. 

Then he married our friend and moved to Madrid where he was simply out of his depth. He had to speak and think like a Spaniard. He could not - and started to buy just about everything on German E-Bay. If anything I think he became less integrated. Was sad as it contributed finally to the divorce. He's now back on the coast, but as the German ex-pats start to pack up it's like watching a dog whose master has gone. 

Not far from where this guy lives there's a market - looks more like a ex-pats club. All sorts of nationalities. At first I though " Great - an English Breakfast bar", and "Real Gulash". But after a while I just felt saddened. Reminded me a bit of the National Clubs in Singapore - Same offhand raucous "we're not local" attitude but without the opulence. Credit to those making a bit of money out of it though.

I feel there's a NEED to differentiate between folk arriving here at the end of their life with a fiscal connection to their old world - and those arriving here with the aim of this becoming their home. The second group HAS TO INTEGRATE imo/e.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

This is a strange one for me to get my head around. When we finally make the move, being in our early 60's we will not be mixing with any nationality in a work envoronment. We will most probably end up with neighbours who speak various EU languages including English so will no doubt converse with them in English, other than Spanish neighbours to whom we will pay them the respect of at least attempting to improve our very basic Spanish.

We will not rush to join any British clubs, or frequent English pubs, most of our meetings with Spaniards will be whilst shopping, eating and drinking and using other areas of their service industry. We have lifelong friends in the UK along with family and don't envisage an increase in the former and due to mortality a decrease in the latter is inevitable.

We are coming to Spain for:

a) A complete change to our style of life.

b) Better weather.

c) A lower cost of living.

d) A size of property that we can only dream of here in the UK, with the possibility of a pool, outside kitchen etc.

We do not expect to be having huge rave ups and inviting the indigenous local population to them. We might just make some new friends but won't make pains in the backsides of ourselves attempting to ingratiate ourselves on folk who just might wish to be left alone.

So if forum members consider us to be typical Brits then so be it, we don't expect to cause havoc and mayhem in Spain, we just wish to live out what is left of our lives doing what we want to do within the laws of the country that we are living in. Actually much the same as we attempt to do in the UK, albeit without the constant intervention of the 'Thought Police' as is now unfortunately the case over here.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

crookesey said:


> This is a strange one for me to get my head around. When we finally make the move, being in our early 60's we will not be mixing with any nationality in a work envoronment ...... Actually much the same as we attempt to do in the UK, albeit without the constant intervention of the 'Thought Police' as is now unfortunately the case over here.


 I'd say you'll do exactly what I'd expect my parents to have done had we convinced them to come over. i.e. Sort of just "muddle along" taking things as they come. They do this now in the UK - so why would I expect different. 

Knowing my dad though - he'd make HUGE efforts to befriend Spaniards (albeit just the guy at the corner shop) and would do his damnedest to do everything in Spanish (I can see him now - phrasebook in hand). My Mum would try too - but her linguistic skills are (shall we say) less active - and I've seen her suffer with my own in-laws (Spaniards) because she'd like to be more able. 

As for the THOUGHT police - Boy do you need to know more about Spanish politics (or maybe - not!)

For example) as of 1-1-2010 expect to start needing either an official email address or electronic signature/certificate for a great many administrative tasks. State issued and controlled. GMAIL/YAHOO etc will not do it!

It'll start as a an option - will become VERY fast the preferred option and will end up being near enough necessary.

One block to this having been implemented so far are "Anglosaxons" - this verbatim from a VERY senior member of the judicial system in a closed presentation to "official IT professionals" on the electronic DNI/NIE. Why? - because in general European anglosaxons (that is to say - Brit's) do not have ID cards. Other anglosaxons are subject to additional controls of course.

Coming here to live/work/raise kids imo is a very different matter.

Not withstanding. A Brit would expect an immigrant to the UK to learn/use English daily (I know it's not always the case - OK?) - Personally I strongly believe that *I* have the *obligation* to do the same here. 

I see the frustration on the face of my colleagues daily. Having for the most part studied a shed load of legal stuff to get a Civil admin post - they suddenly are faced with folk who cant even explain what they want let alone fill in a form. Multilinguism is not part of their curriculum - as it is not in the UK Civil Service (of which I was briefly part). So I believe they have a right to expect to be consulted in Spanish - albeit not always 100% grammatically correct. 

The tourism business is something else, and has other rules of play.

I have to say that I've yet to be asked to translate for a Brit here where I live/work. Even those on hol's have managed so for. We are a bit off the tourist trail - so I guess folk come well prepared.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> I'd say you'll do exactly what I'd expect my parents to have done had we convinced them to come over. i.e. Sort of just "muddle along" taking things as they come. They do this now in the UK - so why would I expect different.
> 
> Knowing my dad though - he'd make HUGE efforts to befriend Spaniards (albeit just the guy at the corner shop) and would do his damnedest to do everything in Spanish (I can see him now - phrasebook in hand). My Mum would try too - but her linguistic skills are (shall we say) less active - and I've seen her suffer with my own in-laws (Spaniards) because she'd like to be more able.
> 
> ...


To join a sentence from my first paragraph to one in my last paragraph, totally ignoring our stated willingness to improve our basic Spanish makes your point that there are indeed dark forces at work in Spain.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

Crookesey, what you describe fits my situation quite well already although I do have a work environment too. Apparently we have some English neighbours within 200 metres but we have never met. I only know of them through a common friend. One Spanish local thought that we must know a Scottish couple in the next village as we were all ex-pats but we have never met them either. Our village has some Americans, a few Brits, a handful of French but we do not seek them out. We do know some Brits in the area and we share some common interests so socialise in that area but certainly we do not feel as if we were in an ex-pat enclave nor would we wish to be. We have become friendly with one or two Spanish neighbours but as our urbanisation is a collection of private individual houses, most just keep themselves to themselves and all is fine. Our Spanish is coming along bit by bit and they all appreciate our trying, even when a lot of our neighbours actually speak English too as a result of their professional lives. From what you post, you can find what you are seeking and best of luck to you and yours. Saludos.


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