# IRS Simulation



## Bicky (Feb 20, 2011)

I am considering my IRS declaration for 2013.
I am registered with Financas and have made declarations in previous years. What I want to achieve is a simulation of my Liability to Financas for 2013.
I cannot find on Financas Web site any facility for simulation as an ESTRANGEIRO. Portuguese national - yes - but estrangeiro - no.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a facility that enables this simulation.


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

In what way do you think that being foreign affects your tax?

Or do you mean the difference between being a resident on a non-resident?


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## Bicky (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't think being foreign affects my tax - I have been declaring for the past 15 years.
What I mean is if I happened to be a Portuguese National. I could do a Simulation on the Financas site, but as a Foreigner (U.K. National but with Portuguese Fiscal Residency), there is no facility to carry out a simulation of liabilities


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm in a different category (UK national & UK resident (really!)) and, after various Java updates etc, can get to the simulation process for IRS. My problem seems to be that it only simulates up to IRS 2012 (and I already know the outcome for that  ), though it did underestimate by 0,01€ .

Maybe we're too keen. Maybe they haven't finished making up the rules for last year. 

Are you in the same place in the Portal das Financas?

Você está aqui > Início > Os Seus Serviços > Entregar > Declarações > IRS


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## Bicky (Feb 20, 2011)

Yes we are too keen for 2013 - I know this - details become available March time.
I am trying to get prepared because I know from previous years that I cannot simulate - and this time ( 2013 ) in particular because of TROIKA and so on there have been many changes to the Taxation formula.

What I do is pull up the Modelo documentation ( Você está aqui > Início > Os Seus Serviços > Entregar > Declarações > IRS ) make my declaration my income area which is pensions - Annex J estrangeiro with country code 826 - at the conclusion it says Simulation not possible.

If you are the same and can simulate - would appreciate details of your " method"


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Because *2013* isn't on system yet, generally March, but there are plenty of other simulators out there just Google in Portuguese not English and you'll find them or if you check any alterations of IRS 2012 to 2013 you can manually work it out.
as a "foreigner" I find most simulators fall down in that I can't enter tax paid abroad so get a wrong liability amount

This site is always useful for information Tax TIES: Portugal - Income Tax | KPMG | GLOBAL


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

It seems like we're in the same place but with rather different circumstances. As a non-resident with Anexo F only I can use the online version or the offline version to simulate but it's only re-simulating 2012.

I tried creating an Anexo J and changing my residency status in the offline version (in case I made a mess of something) but there were too many fields in Anexo J that I didn't understand so I've given up. Don't the error messages when you choose the Validar option suggest which data it doesn't like? I really need to concentrate on my UK 2012/3 return due by the end of this month, so I'm going to withdraw from this line of research!

I can't imagine why having foreign income should prevent a simulation but since it would only, at best, simulate 2013 income levels with 2012 taxes I don't think it would provide the answers for which you're looking.

Maybe this is why some Portuguese allegedly 'forget their fiscal responsibilities' where foreign income is concerned?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Same here 2013 won't be available till generally late Feb earliest

Yes Validar identifies the specific "wrong" entry and until corrected won't alter

Why F?


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Rendimentos Prediais - Income from Property


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If it's "holiday lets" income far better ways to do it whether your Resident or Non Resident especially as the taxation has just been reduced further but not had the chance yet to fully read and understand


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## PTlusitano (Jan 27, 2014)

Just so you know, in 2013 rules changed and income from rents will be taxed at a fixed tax of 28%, like the gains from a time deposit. However, you have the option to aggregate all your income, but have in mind that you need to include all your capital gains as well. Therefore, it is only a good solution if you fall into the first level of income where you will pay 14,5%. Moreover, in order to aggregate all your income you need a statement from your bank(s) for all the accounts where you had capital gains, and you shall address this statement to you local Finanças until the end of May. This statement has to be asked no later then January the 31st.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Also fpr 2014 the tax rate on Al licenced "letting" has dropped from 28% to 3.75% but not been able to read thoroughly yet


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

You can usually find an Excel version if you google "IRS simulador" - perhaps not here, but somewhere similar: Simulador de IRS PwC


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## Bicky (Feb 20, 2011)

notlongnow said:


> You can usually find an Excel version if you google "IRS simulador" - perhaps not here, but somewhere similar: Simulador de IRS PwC


Thanks for this - have Googled as well ( In Portuguese ) -but so far have only found a simulator for Annex "H" in pensions.
What I need is Annex "J" - can anyone tell me is the Tax/Benefit rate different.
If I were to use Annex "H" would I get a correct result


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Try this one Simulador IRS 2013 | Pedro e o Blog not used it for J but it's in the spreadsheet, H is just for medical etc claim so would give you a totally false figure


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## Bicky (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks for this - have had ago using 2012 figures - seems to be a fair interpretation. Will try again when 2013 tables are available.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

That link is for 2013 I believe


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