# Community Fees - desperate for advice



## PicklesDP (Jul 17, 2015)

My dream to move to spain, just turns more and more into a nightmare!

I bought my flat at the peak of the Spanish house prices, off plan. I was told the community fees would be just 100 euros a month. It is a small development of only 40 flats. 

The community fees turned out to be well over 500 euros a month. And often an "extra levy" is voted in by the community, which can be another 300-500 euros. 

Initially the developer held the most votes and so there was nothing anyone could do about it. 

I was just about to start relocating over to Spain and I got hit with another terrible shock. The community have voted in another set of extra charges. Over the next 12 months there are two charges of 2,500 euro per flat. And a charge of 6,700 euro for the ground floor flats for "garden demarcation". This means the community want a grand total of 300,000 euros. This is to generally tidy up the community as the flats are now 7 years old or so. I agree that the external paint is flaking in a few places. But it seems very expensive. We have already paid for the pool to be re-tiled once, so this new rework should not include the pool. 

I just don't have that much spare cash laying around ! 

I have been told that I can refuse to pay any extra charges more than 3 times the monthly charge (so over 1,800 euros). i.e. I can ask for my flat not to be repainted or ask for no work to be done to my garden.

But I have been sent emails from the community manager saying I have to pay by law. If I don't pay the community will legally take my flat and sell it to get their extra charges. 

Can anybody give me some advice? 

I have had to put my flat up for sale, as there is no way I could retire on a fixed pension and be able to handle such huge bills out of the blue. The estate agent fees and tax on buying a property are so high, that it will cost me a lot to move. But long term I guess it will be cheaper to move than stay.


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## Dedaneen (Jul 6, 2013)

Those fees seem huge to me


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

If the developer is no longer in control through holding most votes, then i assume that the residents now hold the power. If so, it seems that most residents are accepting of the spending proposals as they have been approved.

You can't do anything more than try getting involved in the management of the community and having some influence over these decisions.

I'm surprised the rest are so ready to accept that kind of expense! Where I live, the majority would sell if prices got that high. Those prices are much more expensive than any of my friends pay in Javea. More than double, and some!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Sounds a lot to me, I have an apartment, 180€ annual community charge, no pool, no gardens though, and it consists to two blocks of a total of eight flats and garage below, also for sale.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Dedaneen said:


> Those fees seem huge to me


They are huge, but they are not normal community charges though are they? They are special payments which the other residents appear to have accepted.

OP, have you been in touch with the administrador?


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## Dedaneen (Jul 6, 2013)

Im thinking small core of residents milking new people but then Im cynical


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dedaneen said:


> Im thinking small core of residents milking new people but then Im cynical


How would they be 'milking new people' if they too have to pay these charges

If the OP can't afford these charges/he has no option but to sell. However.....won't whoever buys the property have to fork out too?

Buying off-plan is risky in many ways. No way would I pay ten euros for something that exists on paper and in a developer's mind, let alone many 000s of euros.
I don't know if the off-plan bubble has burst, haven't head much about it lately, but the OP's unfortunate experience adds yet more food for thought to prospective purchasers of such properties.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Dedaneen said:


> Im thinking small core of residents milking new people but then Im cynical


everyone has to pay the same, or pro rata if it's decided by size of property

every owner has access to the community accounts, & a vote as to how they are spent


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## Dedaneen (Jul 6, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> How would they be 'milking new people' if they too have to pay these charges
> 
> If the OP can't afford these charges/he has no option but to sell. However.....won't whoever buys the property have to fork out too?


Told you I was been cynical and as Xabia pointed out the books are open, mind you they could exaggerate their expenses and have shares in the businesses that maintain the properties etc.
Dont take me too seriously Im just playing with my imagination  :noidea:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dedaneen said:


> Told you I was been cynical and as Xabia pointed out the books are open, mind you they could exaggerate their expenses and have shares in the businesses that maintain the properties etc.
> Dont take me too seriously Im just playing with my imagination  :noidea:


Well, then they would ALL have to be in on it...all thirty-nine of them..

I have no imagination, or very little indeed, which at times can be a problem, I admit.
I too tend to think the worst of human nature which means I don't get disappointed that often..


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## Dedaneen (Jul 6, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, then they would ALL have to be in on it...all thirty-nine of them..
> 
> I have no imagination, or very little indeed, which at times can be a problem, I admit.
> I too tend to think the worst of human nature which means I don't get disappointed that often..


Nah just a wee majority core 

Thinking the worst all the time (although I tend to agree, seems the correct approach most of the time) can be very bleak and dismal, leads to the "told you so" phrase getting repeated too often. Sometimes need a wee bit of optimism to lighten the heart


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dedaneen said:


> Nah just a wee majority core
> 
> Thinking the worst all the time (although I tend to agree, seems the correct approach most of the time) can be very bleak and dismal, leads to the "told you so" phrase getting repeated too often. Sometimes need a wee bit of optimism to lighten the heart


A good dinner with an excellent wine lightens my heart. ****** optimism


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## Dedaneen (Jul 6, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> A good dinner with an excellent wine lightens my heart. ****** optimism


Very true, dosnt have to end there


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dedaneen said:


> Very true, dosnt have to end there


Sadly,at my age, it usually does


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## Dedaneen (Jul 6, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Sadly,at my age, it usually does


Ah thats a shame, more wine then 😏


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## PicklesDP (Jul 17, 2015)

In a way I am glad that no one else has been hit with enormous extra bills of 11,700 euro, but I wish there was someone out there that could share their experiences. 

I don't understand how anybody can afford to move house in Spain. Even if you are a resident you still have to pay 7% tax on the house you are moving to don't you? It feels like you get one chance to buy your dream home and if you get it wrong you are totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

It feels like I need to win the lottery to try and sort this mess out!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think many are caught up in a similar situation. Some friends, blinded by computer mock ups bought off plan close to Puerto Banus, luxury development blah blah indoor pool and gym etc. When sorted community fees were €435 pm. Place is nearly empty, bank owns a lot. They had a one off fee the first year to pay a fine to Ayuntamiento which the Developer should have paid. When people find out the fees they won't buy.

Although not as bad many decisions used to be made between the Administrator and President who were hand in glove. Many meetings have no translator. Study the accounts, at one time over a third of our expenditure was in sundries ours is better now as more Spanish became residents and the President changed.


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## Aruba (Oct 27, 2015)

Hi,

I am Spanish and own a vacational house in Costa Blanca. I usually only read the forum but I find outrageous the charges you are paying.
I am not sure what kind of apartment you bought but 500 euros a month is definetely unreal unless it is an extra-luxury resort. I do not think that many Spaniards are willing to pay these charges.
First of all I am not an expert but there is a few questions that come to my mind.
Have you talked with other residents about this? Have you assisted to the anual meetings? Have you asked for the invoices of the works that have been done? 
People pay extra money when there is something extra to be done ("derrama"), but this usually happens in older buildings.

Are most of the properties owned by the developer? If this is the case they might be doing whatever they want since they will always win any votation and maybe they are taking advantage of this.

Garden demarcation? Shoudn't this be done before handing the keys of your new apartment? Wasn't that part of the plans in the development?


It might be a good idea to talk with other neighbours and look for legal advice. 

About the pool retiling, well... our pool is from 1999 and has never been retiled...
Unfortunately the guarantee period for this has already passed but remember that if they try to charge you for any structural damage, the guarantee period for a building is 10 years.
Many of the developments built during the construction boom have very poor quality, even if they look very fancy. Developers were building as cheap as possible because they were able to sell anyway.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Get a lawyer ASAP and he can investigate, the monthly figure is just plain unbelievable, I never heard of it before, and I a Spanish. I know people round the corner, and they pay 60 euros monthly, they have a massive outdoors pool and an indoor heated pool for the winter months, plus jacuzzi, sauna, showers, etc, big gardens all around, all in pretty good conditions. If the building is 7 years old how come you had to pay for retiling the pool? Surely the pool came with a 10 years guarantee as a minimum? As well as the other works, some of them should be under guarantee methinks. 

It is all a bit odd. 

I paid big amounts on service charge, but in London. Ex council flat, you know the drill, until I got a bill of 43,000 pounds for major works, so I sold it, i was lucky enough to sell it only after being on the market for just a few hours, and for the asking price. 

If you have to pay all that money, try and sell it, who knows, you might be lucky as i was.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

If you're not there on top of things it's easy for people to con you.

I would see a reliable lawyer asap (one you can trust not who will just tell you to pay)

Those charges are over the top, and completely disproportionate to your property. If you bought off plan certain things shouldn't need doing. And if they do, then you should claim against the builders as it sounds like there have been errors in the building or design. You need decent legal advice. Don't pay a penny until you get it.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I would prefer to buy a book on Community law before hiring a Lawyer. Even if it is the Developers liability they may have disappeared. Depends on the individual community. The opposite is where fees are too low and swimming pools are empty, lifts not working etc. Because no one votes to pay more fees.

When our Community had a purge most of the expenditure had been given to relatives, friends of the President and Administrator. No quotes etc.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Its hardly surprising that when the developer held the majority of the votes, presumably because the units were unsold, the charges were very high. The developer was paying himself for the properties under his ownership and getting money from the few private owners to finance the remaining works.

What is strange, is that the current ownership community continues to vote in favour of abnormally high charges to rectify things which should be covered by the developer's obligations.

Is there any way you can find out who the other owners are, and what their relationship with the owner may be?

Is there any chance that a significant proportion of them have been "encouraged" to buy the properties, or could they be "in on the scam" at the expense of the others that are not, like you?


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