# 43?



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Has anyone heard anything new on the 43 students, or has the EPN government completely got it all covered up and out of the press?

One would think (and hope) that someone, somewhere would leak some information, but I guess anyone who does can probably kiss all their family goodbye, as there would be too much of a price to pay. Even if someone did leak something, getting any permission from the government to check it out by independents would be impossible. What a shame.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I must say, however, your inquiry is cogent and well presented.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Missing Mexican Students Suffered a Night of 'Terror' Investigators Say - NYTimes.com

Inquiry Challenges Mexico's Account of How 43 Students Vanished - NYTimes.com


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Has anyone heard anything new on the 43 students, or has the EPN government completely got it all covered up and out of the press?
> 
> One would think (and hope) that someone, somewhere would leak some information, but I guess anyone who does can probably kiss all their family goodbye, as there would be too much of a price to pay. Even if someone did leak something, getting any permission from the government to check it out by independents would be impossible. What a shame.


There was an independent investigation. But they faced obstacles from the Mexican government.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Yes, you live in Chiapas while I live in Colima, and the question of the 43 is current and relevant according to the protests and grafitti I've seen or the chisme I've heard these last few weeks everywhere from Tijuana to Tuxtla. Meanwhile the whole world is listening every time EPN opens his mouth. The case of the 43 is no more horrific than what happened Acteal, Selma and a lot of other places; lots of similarities really, but it is more recent. Latest report I got was off Deutsche Welle Report: Mexican police hampered probe, tortured suspects in trainee teacher case | News | DW.COM | 25.04.2016 If a Mexican massacre is newsworthy in Berlin, I'm sure it also is where you live.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> Has anyone heard anything new on the 43 students, or has the EPN government completely got it all covered up and out of the press?
> 
> One would think (and hope) that someone, somewhere would leak some information, but I guess anyone who does can probably kiss all their family goodbye, as there would be too much of a price to pay. Even if someone did leak something, getting any permission from the government to check it out by independents would be impossible. What a shame.


While I have opinions (which may differ or agree with yours) - I am biting my lip - as my opinions are irrelevant - and - since I am not a Mexican citizen - and in fact am a guest in this country - I agreed when I accepted my RP credential that I would butt-out of Mexican internal / political affairs. [Cut]


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

chuck846 said:


> While I have opinions (which may differ or agree with yours) - I am biting my lip - as my opinions are irrelevant - and - since I am not a Mexican citizen - and in fact am a guest in this country - I agreed when I accepted my RP credential that I would butt-out of Mexican internal / political affairs.


Me too, for the time being, but you can gather all the information you want. As far as _inmiscuirse en los asuntos políticos del país_, Mexico just doesn't want you protesting in the Zócalo or making political contributions. Among family and friends, it's OK. Mine love to bounce things off the resident ******.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

perropedorro said:


> Me too, for the time being, but you can gather all the information you want. As far as _inmiscuirse en los asuntos políticos del país_, Mexico just doesn't want you protesting in the Zócalo or making political contributions. Among family and friends, it's OK. Mine love to bounce things off the resident ******.


I'm pretty sure that in this day and age Mexico does not want it's guests out on the internet dissing the current administration. In many ways that is potentially more damaging, as demonstrations on the zocalo have a defined ending. (And that is not a personal attack on anyone - just a statement).


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> While I have opinions (which may differ or agree with yours) - I am biting my lip - as my opinions are irrelevant - and - since I am not a Mexican citizen - and in fact am a guest in this country - I agreed when I accepted my RP credential that I would butt-out of Mexican internal / political affairs. [Cut]


I agree with you, but since my wife IS a Mexican citizen, we do have an interest in Mexican affairs of all types. Please respect that. These comments are derailing my OP.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

chuck846 said:


> While I have opinions (which may differ or agree with yours) - I am biting my lip - as my opinions are irrelevant - and - since I am not a Mexican citizen - and in fact am a guest in this country - I agreed when I accepted my RP credential that I would butt-out of Mexican internal / political affairs. [Cut]


You are permitted to hold any opinion on Mexican politics or internal affairs. What you can not do is participate in demonstrations, marches nor be active in political parties. We are a part of Mexico only lacking some rights of citizenship, however, we do have an exit.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

chuck846 said:


> I'm pretty sure that in this day and age Mexico does not want it's guests out on the internet dissing the current administration. In many ways that is potentially more damaging, as demonstrations on the zocalo have a defined ending. (And that is not a personal attack on anyone - just a statement).


No dissing of EPN here, sorry you interpreted it that way. Just pointing out that the entire world is curious about the incident and would like to hear what he has to say. That's not opinion but rather fact. As for the prohibition of foreigners _being involved_ in Mexican politics, the concensus of constitutional scholars is that expressing one's opinion does not constitute getting involved in politics but rather is in the realm of Freedom of Expression, a universal human right that Mexico subscribes to. Not that I'll volunteer to be a test case.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

perropedorro said:


> Yes, you live in Chiapas while I live in Colima, and the question of the 43 is current and relevant according to the protests and grafitti I've seen or the chisme I've heard these last few weeks everywhere from Tijuana to Tuxtla. Meanwhile the whole world is listening every time EPN opens his mouth. The case of the 43 is no more horrific than what happened Acteal, Selma and a lot of other places; lots of similarities really, but it is more recent. Latest report I got was off Deutsche Welle Report: Mexican police hampered probe, tortured suspects in trainee teacher case | News | DW.COM | 25.04.2016 If a Mexican massacre is newsworthy in Berlin, I'm sure it also is where you live.


Well, I do not think Acteal equates with the situation in Selma. I do not believe the thuggery demonstrated by the Alabama Highway Patrol at the Edmond Pettus Bridge in the 1960s compares with the slaughter of innocent children in Acteal by thugs of a different nature. Both incidents are ugly representations of human indecency.

As for Berlin, a fine town rendered a cesspool in the. 1930s by elected goons, that is a recurrent theme since mankind took over the planet.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

perropedorro said:


> If a Mexican massacre is newsworthy in Berlin, I'm sure it also is where you live.


Not to sound cynical, but one reason their disappearance has become newsworthy in Berlin is the great PR machine that has been put into action by those running the show behind the scenes.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

> I do not believe the thuggery demonstrated by the Alabama Highway Patrol at the Edmond Pettus Bridge in the 1960s compares with the slaughter of innocent children in Acteal by thugs of a different nature.


 In a way it does. When the objectives and methods of a state-sanctioned police force converge with those of privately hired thugs, systematic intimidation of the people or at least a group, they dovetail into a required ingredient in that toxic stew known as fascism.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Not to sound cynical, but one reason their disappearance has become newsworthy in Berlin is the great PR machine that has been put into action by those running the show behind the scenes.


Out of curiosity, who do you mean by "those running the show behind the scenes"?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Out of curiosity, who do you mean by "those running the show behind the scenes"?


Obviously, there are people and groups organizing (and paying for) the travels of the families of the 43 to Mexico City and Europe. Who is paying the fees of their lawyer and spokesperson? Just wondering . . .


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Obviously, there are people and groups organizing (and paying for) the travels of the families of the 43 to Mexico City and Europe. Who is paying the fees of their lawyer and spokesperson? Just wondering . . .


One controversy that needs a score card as soon as we know the rosters of each team.

Obama 2016!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

coondawg said:


> I agree with you, but since my wife IS a Mexican citizen, we do have an interest in Mexican affairs of all types. Please respect that. These comments are derailing my OP.


Well, Dawg can beat that. My wife and I are both Mexican citizens but she votes in Chiapas and I in Jalisco.. There's something about that that worries me. 1


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> Obviously, there are people and groups organizing (and paying for) the travels of the families of the 43 to Mexico City and Europe. Who is paying the fees of their lawyer and spokesperson? Just wondering . . .


George Soros ?


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

joaquinx said:


> You are permitted to hold any opinion on Mexican politics or internal affairs. What you can not do is participate in demonstrations, marches nor be active in political parties. We are a part of Mexico only lacking some rights of citizenship, however, we do have an exit.


Not to belabor the point - but since coondawg has created another thread to seek an answer to his question - I thought I would follow up on your statement, joaquinx.

Fist I visited the INM web-site to see if there was any mention of expat cans/can'ts - didn't find anything. I did find a nicely written article from late 2014 which was interesting reading.

The Fulano Forum - Mexican Constitution Changes Affecting Expats

Among other things was this statement :

"As a final note, even though “inconvenient” expatriates now get a legal hearing when accused of participating in political activities, there is no guarantee that the expat will win this hearing. especially if they get involved in political issues, make public political statements, or stick around witnessing protests over road and bridge constructions. As expatriates, we will have opinions. Any efforts at voicing those opinions or attempting to influence the government or Mexican citizens based on our opinions must not be taken lightly."


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I had a friend who moved from the U.S. to Puerto Escondido, bought property and became very openly supportive of the Zapatistas. This was around 2005. One day, she was arrested and escorted to the airplane headed back to the U.S. She had a good lawyer and was able to retain her property and eventually return to Mexico with the defense of "mental illness" during her period of misdeeds, but in come cases, the authorities really aren't fooling around and take active participation in political activities as seriously NOT OKAY. Why risk it? If someone wants to make politics the major focus of his/her life, it's best to stay put in the mother country, IMHO.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

lagoloo said:


> I had a friend who moved from the U.S. to Puerto Escondido, bought property and became very openly supportive of the Zapatistas. This was around 2005. One day, she was arrested and escorted to the airplane headed back to the U.S.


The time frame is right. Mexico was quite sensitive to EZLN business at the time and trying to contain it, which meant deporting foreigners who got involved, mostly those in Chiapas who were hanging out with the zapatistas. Sounds like your friend got too enthused. Since then, they've eased up on application of the law, while many constitutional scholars weighed in on free speech vs. "involvement". Probably lots of grey area in between. My guess is that casual comments in discussions are tolerated, but vociferously taking sides isn't.


> If someone wants to make politics the major focus of his/her life, it's best to stay put in the mother country, IMHO.


 IMHO too, no argument here. Either stay home or seek citizenship before you start raising hell.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Oventik the zapatista headquarters is a tourist place and a way to fun raise..ETA from Spain is a well known donor.., if the government wanted to pick up people they would just have to sit there and pick up people. Everytime I go that way they are always some white folks at the gate waiting to enter the sacred place..what a joke..
I went by yesterday and sure enough white folks were thre waiting..my travelling companion is an ex EZLN member and he made som kind of a remark saying " you wonder what the attraction is since there is nothing to see there"..I asked why he dropped out and he say there was too much manipulation of people for his taste..of course he says that about every movement and every party...
I am a naturalized citizen and I stay awy from controversial movement..no point tempting the devil..


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## elsonador (Feb 16, 2011)

So is the real headline here Mexico has too many issues to count and 43 students just happened to be in the middle of it all? Or does it have more to do with EPN, PRI and Salinas like tactics of the 90s? 

I hate to get political but it's funny in my wife's family some people ignore or prefer not to talk at all about current affairs or politics in Mexico, "why vote, it's a waste of time, it's all rigged" etc, and others openly state that PRI is the ultimate devil.

Who knows we're just guests here anyways...


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

As a naturalized citizen I sure would not raise hell..you can lose your citizenship if you are not born here..so again no point tempting the devil.


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