# Applying for subclass 189/190



## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi friends. I am new to this forum. Came here to get help of you guys. I am applying for subclass 189/190. I am having 50 points without ielts. I am yet to give my ielts exam. I am applying under category of Solicitor/Barrister. My queries are as follows:-
1. I did my llb as an average student coz i always knew i would be working in my dads firm. So will my percentage of marks be considered. 
2. I am practising before Courts from last 3 yrs independently as well as assisting my dad. For proving it i have IT returns for last 3-4 years. So should i show my self as self employed professional or junior advocate or as both.
3. And if i get 7 bands each i would be havin 60 points. So should i apply for subclass 189 or 190.


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Ronb said:


> Hi friends. I am new to this forum. Came here to get help of you guys. I am applying for subclass 189/190. I am having 50 points without ielts. I am yet to give my ielts exam. I am applying under category of Solicitor/Barrister. My queries are as follows:-
> 1. I did my llb as an average student coz i always knew i would be working in my dads firm. So will my percentage of marks be considered.
> 2. I am practising before Courts from last 3 yrs independently as well as assisting my dad. For proving it i have IT returns for last 3-4 years. So should i show my self as self employed professional or junior advocate or as both.
> 3. And if i get 7 bands each i would be havin 60 points. So should i apply for subclass 189 or 190.


To get PR as a solicitor/barrisor you need to get an assessment from a state assessment authority. It seems that their assessment processes are vigorious. I think you won't be able to get the assessment with 7 for IELTS. I looked at the criteria in couple of states recently. They stated that you need overall 8 with at least 8 in writing and 7.5 in speaking. Check out this link for NSW.

English Language Proficiency Requirements - Legal Profession Admission Board New South Wales


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks for your reply. If instead of Barrister / Solicitor which require such high Bands in ielts. I apply for legal executive under this head "Unit Group 5991: Conveyancers and Legal Executives". what are the ielts requirement for this profile. Ss i have less than 5 posts i cannot put a link in my reply.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi. I have made an application to vetassess for skill assessment on 31/07/2014. All documents are uploaded and application is made online. I would like to know that if vetassess calls my employer they would be calling after how many days. And will they intimate me before calling my employer


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Anybody out there to help me with my queries.


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Couple of things.

Legal executive is not in SOL right? It is only in CSOL. So is any state sponsoring for Legal Executive now? HOw are you planning to proceed with the application?

I do not think VETASSESSES will call your work as long as you have given all the required evidence.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

I am hoping to get my skill assessed before opening of second round of applications. My agent has uploaded all the color scanned copies of the docs. As on today the status of my apllication as said by my agent is "in process" according to vetassess


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

I have been assessed for Legal Executive and the outcome is positive. I would like to know whether i can apply for skill assessment under the occupation code "solicitor". Anzsco code 271311. And whether the IELTS requirement will be alongwith Skill Assessment or after wards. Kindly help


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

Ronb said:


> I would like to know whether i can apply for skill assessment under the occupation code "solicitor". Anzsco code 271311.


You are in the best position to answer your own question based on your skills and requirements to qualify as "Solicitor" in Australia.



Ronb said:


> And whether the IELTS requirement will be alongwith Skill Assessment or after wards.


You must submit your IELTS TRF with your application for assessment.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

FAIS said:


> You are in the best position to answer your own question based on your skills and requirements to qualify as "Solicitor" in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> You must submit your IELTS TRF with your application for assessment.


Job duties of legal executive and solicitor are same approximately. But requirement to work as a Solicitor is higher. IELTS is Academic and with overall * with 8 in writing and 7.5 in speaking. i cannot understand the clause which are very confusing.

http://www.lpab.justice.nsw.gov.au/...s/legalprofession_overseas_practitioners.aspx

Kindly help in decoding.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Any senior to help me out. Solicitor is very complicated occupation code. Kindly help


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## louisam (Apr 20, 2012)

Ronb said:


> Any senior to help me out. Solicitor is very complicated occupation code. Kindly help


Are you asking about the IELTS clause?

:confused2:

For Solicitor, your current IELTS score is not enough. 

For instance, consider the below scenario:

L -7
S-9
R-9
W -8 

is a valid score. Here you have an overall score of 8.5 and your individual band scores are also as above the limit of each band.

But following score is not:

L -8
S-7
R-9
W -8.5

Here you have an overall score of 8, but the speaking band is below the minimum score of 7.5.


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

Ronb said:


> Job duties of legal executive and solicitor are same approximately. But requirement to work as a Solicitor is higher. IELTS is Academic and with overall * with 8 in writing and 7.5 in speaking. i cannot understand the clause which are very confusing.
> 
> Overseas Applicants
> 
> Kindly help in decoding.



Steps:

1 - Get the required score in IELTS
2 - Apply for assessment (send your qualifications and experience to the relevant state board)
3 - Pass the additional academic subjects as required as a result of your qualification assessment. As a general rule, overseas qualified lawyers are required to pass additional subjects

Common additional academic requirements are selected from the list of prescribed subjects provided below:

Administrative Law
Civil Procedure
Contracts
Company Law
Criminal law and procedure
Equity (including Trusts)
Ethics and Professional Responsibility
Evidence
Federal and State Constitutional Law
Property (including Torrens System Land)
Torts

They have not indicated common additional academic requirements for Indian qualifications. However, Sri Lankan applicants are required to study:

Administrative Law; 
Federal and State Constitutional Law; 
Property; and
Other Prescribed Subject(s) (from the above list) that has/ have not been studied as part of their qualification. 

I have provided the above just for guidance as Indian qualifications are not listed. Also, I believe that the additional academic subjects must be complete *in Australia*. Since distance learning qualifications are considered unusual/ irregular, I believe you can't complete additional study online. But this is my opinion only. 

In addition to the above academic subjects, every foreign qualified lawyer must complete *at least* the following two areas,either by practicing (practical training), or through the approved course from an approved institution *in Australia*. No applicant is exempted from this requirement.

Trust and Office Accounting; and
Ethics and Professional Responsibility

Additional areas may be identified after the assessment.

You should also note that BA LLB is considered irregular/ unusual qualification as it is not a full three year law degree. LLB in this case is kind of a post graduate diploma completed after a general BA. I don't know how they assess these kind of degrees when it comes to equivalence in the first place. 

Anyway, you can only know for sure after your qualifications and experience are formally submitted to the board for assessment. No one here on this forum can tell you what will be the outcome of your assessment.


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

The above explains the reason why only 138 solicitors received invites to apply for the visa when the ceiling is set at 3426 invites. Probably, most of them are Australian qualified applicants.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

FAIS said:


> The above explains the reason why only 138 solicitors received invites to apply for the visa when the ceiling is set at 3426 invites. Probably, most of them are Australian qualified applicants.


Thanx very much FIAS. So you also feel that IELTS should be done before submitting application for skill assessment. But for the score part. How can 8, 7.5, 7, 7 make an overall 8.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Fias this is the reply i had received regarding my queries. But they have not mentioned for IELTS TRF alongwith skill assessment application 

Hi XXXX
As you have attained legal qualifications overseas and are considering to qualify as a Lawyer in New South Wales, you may lodge an application for assessment of your legal qualifications. 

The first step is to visit our websitewhere you can obtain detailed information for overseas practitioners and frequently asked questions covering process and procedure. 

An application for academic assessment will require the following: 
• Form 16 
• An original academic transcript (an official, signed record from your University stating the subjects undertaken and marks and grades received);
• Statement of the criteria for awarding marks to individual subjects and copy of the University's grading system 
• Certificate of Admission (only if you have been admitted in your home jurisdiction);
• Description of your practice as a lawyer 
• Application fee: $250 (Australian dollars only please see our website for payment options)
The Academic Exemptions Sub-Committee of the Legal Profession Admission Board is responsible for determining how many subject(s) you would need to undertake before you fulfil the academic requirements for admission in accordance with the Board's Rules ‘Legal Profession Admission Rules 2005’ and the ‘Uniform Principles for the Assessment of Overseas Applicants for Admission to the Australian Legal Profession’ (now adopted Nationally). Given this is a sub-committee determination, I cannot give you any advice of what exemptions may or may not be granted in advance of an application for exemption. However, you may obtain an indication by reviewing the Uniform Principles for assessing qualifications of Overseas Applicants for Admission to the Australian Legal Profession 
A further prerequisite for admission in New South Wales is the completion of a Practical Legal Training Course offered by one of the institutions listed in the Fourth Schedule of the Legal Profession Admission Rules 2005. You may also contact the College of Law for further information. The College of Law can be contacted on (+612) 9965 7000; web: www.collaw.edu.au; or e-mail: [email protected] 
If you are admitted in your home jurisdiction, exemption from some of the practical legal training requirements may be possible upon a submission of Form 17 with details of your prior practical legal training or experience being made to the Board and to the Law Society of New South Wales. Please refer to rule 98(2)(a) of the Legal Profession Admission Rules 2005 and form 17 application instructions for eligibility and procedural requirements. 

You may also be required to undertake an English Language Proficiency Test (IELTS) (Academic) and attain results as shown on our website.
You may obtain further information including the Board's guidelines on assessing academic qualifications and application forms from our website under Assessment of Overseas Qualifications. 
All documents must be original documents or copies certified by notary public only. Copies certified by a Justice of the Peace or Solicitor are not acceptable. 

When you complete all the academic and practical training requirements, you may make application to the Board for admission as a lawyer. Once admitted you may then apply to the NSW Bar Association (Barrister) or Law Society of NSW (Solicitor) for a practising certificate. Only these bodies can clarify if any restrictions apply to practice law.
Please note that the advice we have received from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship is that, to qualify for skilled migration in the category of lawyer, an applicant must actually be admitted as a lawyer, however, it is recommended you make your own enquiries with that Department. The Board can only issue you a Skilled Migration Letter once your are admitted as a lawyer in New South Wales.
Should you have any further enquiries please feel free to contact me either by return e-mail or phone on 61 2 9338 3502.


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

Ronb said:


> You may also be required to undertake an English Language Proficiency Test (IELTS) (Academic) and attain results as shown on our website.
> You may obtain further information including the Board's guidelines on assessing academic qualifications and application forms from our website under Assessment of Overseas Qualifications.


They have used the word "may" because they don't know where you have completed your studies. For applicants with qualifications gained in English speaking countries, IELTS is not required.

As soon as your CO finds out that you haven't included your IELTS result, he will ask you for the same as an additional information request. 

Anyway, even if you consider that IELTS is not required at the time of filing assessment application, you will not be able to be admitted as Solicitor or Barrister if you do not provide your IELTS TRF. So why are you waiting for them to come back to you to ask for the IELTS TRF? Do you think it's a good idea to apply for the assessment first and then start attempting IELTS to get required score? Are you ready to forgo your assessment fees if you don't get required score in IELTS?

My suggestion is to get the required score in IELTS first and then apply. Rest you know your situation better.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

FAIS said:


> They have used the word "may" because they don't know where you have completed your studies. For applicants with qualifications gained in English speaking countries, IELTS is not required.
> 
> As soon as your CO finds out that you haven't included your IELTS result, he will ask you for the same as an additional information request.
> 
> ...


I dont want to wait for IELTS Exam. I want to proceed with Skill assessment and IELTS simultaneously. beacuse next avaiable date for IELTS is mid april. So i will have to wait 45 days which is half the period of skill assessment


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Dear XXX,
You may complete your ietls anytime you wish although I would suggest that you wait until you receive your results from your academic exemptions, as if you are required to complete more than 10 subjects and complete them with the LPAB you will be exempt.

Regards

This is the reply received for the IELTS query.


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

Good that you asked them. But do you think its a wise decision to go for this long route? How much each subject will cost you?


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

FAIS said:


> Good that you asked them. But do you think its a wise decision to go for this long route? How much each subject will cost you?


 Approx 4000$ each subject. To meet their standard they will assess my qualifications n experience n then advice to undertake academic subjects. I have also asked them whether it is possible to get a positive skill assessment frm lbap and apply for Visa and then move to Australia to complete the academic. Waiting for a response on this query.


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

FAIS said:


> Good that you asked them. But do you think its a wise decision to go for this long route? How much each subject will cost you?


LPAB are offering each subject at 745$ only. That is reasonable. But they wont provide skill assessment without completing the academics.


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

Ronb said:


> LPAB are offering each subject at 745$ only. That is reasonable. But they wont provide skill assessment without completing the academics.


So meaning more time and money. But how will you know that how many subjects you need to complete?


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

FAIS said:


> So meaning more time and money. But how will you know that how many subjects you need to complete?


For that i will have to apply for skill assessment. During the pendency of the application they will inform me the subjects to undergo. N after successful completion i will get a positive outcome


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## deep 35 (Apr 24, 2016)

Hello

Can you suggest the best way to contact u up as i need some guidance on occupation Legal Executive.

Cheers


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## Ronb (Jul 4, 2014)

Pm your mail id

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## devil001 (Oct 27, 2017)

Hello Ronb, 

Hope you are doing well. Well i am contacting you in reference to your thread. I got admitted as a Solicitor in NSW on 13-10-2017 and got positive skills assessment from LPAB on 20-10-2017. My total points are 65. I submitted my EOI on 23-10-2017, should i expect an invite in November 2017?

Your help will be really appreciated.


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## Alisha 44 (Feb 3, 2021)

Ronb said:


> I have been assessed for Legal Executive and the outcome is positive. I would like to know whether i can apply for skill assessment under the occupation code "solicitor". Anzsco code 271311. And whether the IELTS requirement will be alongwith Skill Assessment or after wards. Kindly help


HI Ronb

I wanted to submit my application under the same stream and was looking for some help/ guidance. Can you suggest a means to contact you?
Thanks


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