# Natural Justice Letter



## indoauzzi (Oct 30, 2014)

Dear 2015 fellow waiters. 

Unfortunately I'm in a fix. Yesterday my agent got a Natural Justice letter from my CO. 

They tried to contact one of my previous companies which I quit in 2011 (5 years ago). This is a small company and not particularly doing well and so many people have come and gone. When the High Commission contacted them, some new person in this company gave an adverse statement about me. The statements amounts to me working in a semi-technical role. I have applied under_ Computer Network and Systems Engineer_ (263111). Now the CO is saying that my profile does not fit the criteria for applying under this category. Obviously that statement is totally inaccurate. 

I have 28 days to reply. 

Has someone been in this situation from this forum ? 

I applied for 189 visa on 22 Nov 2015. And after such a long wait getting this Natural Justice notification is just heartbreaking 

Please help me with some information on how to proceed. 

Thanks.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

If you can support your statement and provide well founded evidence, go ahead and respond

Otherwise, withdraw the application to avoid a 3 year ban


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## rd85164 (Aug 31, 2014)

indoauzzi said:


> Dear 2015 fellow waiters.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in a fix. Yesterday my agent got a Natural Justice letter from my CO.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your situation buddy.
From what I've read in the forum, get something that can not de denied as an evidence of the roles and responsibilities. 
By the way, what is your points tally? I mean how many points did you claim for experience.

Good luck.
Rahul.


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## raj747 (Oct 23, 2015)

indoauzzi said:


> Dear 2015 fellow waiters.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in a fix. Yesterday my agent got a Natural Justice letter from my CO.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that buddy...

Did you claim any points for experience?? if claimed how many?? which city are you from?? this is not the end.. there are so many people who got grants after Natural justice letter.. they have given you chance to prove your claims so you can still show them strong evidence supporting your claims if any...


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

indoauzzi said:


> Dear 2015 fellow waiters.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in a fix. Yesterday my agent got a Natural Justice letter from my CO.
> 
> ...


as A2Z said, provide extensive proofs to prove your genuinity.

or else 

Withdraw


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## ozpunjabi (Jun 21, 2015)

indoauzzi said:


> Dear 2015 fellow waiters.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in a fix. Yesterday my agent got a Natural Justice letter from my CO.
> 
> ...


How many points you have claimed for experience?


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## indoauzzi (Oct 30, 2014)

Guys,

I finally got the grant today. It was a very anxious wait of close to a year with NJ letter to top it. 

So Natural Justice does not mean a denial after all.

Cheers.


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

indoauzzi said:


> Guys,
> 
> I finally got the grant today. It was a very anxious wait of close to a year with NJ letter to top it.
> 
> ...


Congrats and wish you luck. When did you file your NJ reply


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## indoauzzi (Oct 30, 2014)

Greg1946 said:


> Congrats and wish you luck. When did you file your NJ reply


I got the letter in April. Replied in May. They want you to reply within 28 days.


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

indoauzzi said:


> Greg1946 said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats and wish you luck. When did you file your NJ reply
> ...


Yes even I am an NJ case. 14 months since visa application and replied to NJ on 16th April- eagerly waiting to hear back from them 

Did they ask you to redo your Medicals and pcc. What is the IED they gave you 

My Medicals and pcc are expired - not sure what to expect hence checking


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

Greg1946 said:


> Yes even I am an NJ case. 14 months since visa application and replied to NJ on 16th April- eagerly waiting to hear back from them
> 
> Did they ask you to redo your Medicals and pcc. What is the IED they gave you
> 
> My Medicals and pcc are expired - not sure what to expect hence checking


Hi indoauzzi ,

I have the same question as Greg above.
-about re-Medicals were asked or not? 
-PCC exipred?
-IED?

I applied in Nov 2015 as well. NJL Replied in Apr 2016.


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## indoauzzi (Oct 30, 2014)

arunkareer said:


> Hi indoauzzi ,
> 
> I have the same question as Greg above.
> -about re-Medicals were asked or not?
> ...


No I was not asked to re-do medicals or PCC. 

IED is mid-March 2017


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

indoauzzi said:


> No I was not asked to re-do medicals or PCC.
> 
> IED is mid-March 2017


Thanks for the revert. Much appreciated.
And Congratulations for the Grant.


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## sk804 (Mar 16, 2014)

indoauzzi said:


> No I was not asked to re-do medicals or PCC.
> 
> IED is mid-March 2017


Hello indoauzzi,

What documents you submitted as evidence to claim your proof?


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## Shail_adl (Aug 9, 2016)

indoauzzi said:


> Guys,
> 
> I finally got the grant today. It was a very anxious wait of close to a year with NJ letter to top it.
> 
> ...


Hi Friend,

I have got a NJ letter on 12.12.2016 I have reverted the NJ letter on 21.12.2016 with ALLLLL the Evidences. Waited for a Year for Visa and now after NJ Letter still waiting : ( 
Hoping for a positive and quick output of my application. 

Felt so good after reading your message that though after a year ...you got your visa..Great Ya....
Thank you 
Shailendra


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## shjuthani (Nov 27, 2012)

Greg1946 said:


> Yes even I am an NJ case. 14 months since visa application and replied to NJ on 16th April- eagerly waiting to hear back from them
> 
> Did they ask you to redo your Medicals and pcc. What is the IED they gave you
> 
> My Medicals and pcc are expired - not sure what to expect hence checking


Hi Greg1946, 

Have you received grant???

Regards


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Quick update guys - I have had a co contact yesterday asking me to redo Medicals and pcc
My timelines 
Application date- 17th August 2015 - crossed 500 days 
Several contacts however the last one was on 21st march with an NJ- replied on 16th April 2016 and was waiting since then


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## sk804 (Mar 16, 2014)

Greg1946 said:


> Quick update guys - I have had a co contact yesterday asking me to redo Medicals and pcc
> My timelines
> Application date- 17th August 2015 - crossed 500 days
> Several contacts however the last one was on 21st march with an NJ- replied on 16th April 2016 and was waiting since then


Did you repeated the test?

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

In process


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## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Guys, I read about NJL, most of the cases folks received this due to employer miscommunication with DIBP. This is totally unfair and unfortunate situation to those who submit all genuine docs


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## shjuthani (Nov 27, 2012)

Greg1946 said:


> Quick update guys - I have had a co contact yesterday asking me to redo Medicals and pcc
> My timelines
> Application date- 17th August 2015 - crossed 500 days
> Several contacts however the last one was on 21st march with an NJ- replied on 16th April 2016 and was waiting since then


Congratulation Greg1946, Can you advice me on my situation. I have sent you PM with details.


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

Any Update guys... For this week?


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## Rajaastha (Jun 11, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> In process


Hi Greg,

Any update???


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Nothing as yet


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

sanjeewa said:


> Guys, I read about NJL, most of the cases folks received this due to employer miscommunication with DIBP. This is totally unfair and unfortunate situation to those who submit all genuine docs


If they are genuine, then yes it is unfair. For DIBP it's difficult to know which are the cases where there is genuine misunderstanding, and which where there is deception. That is why NJL exists. The thing is that far too many of these cases have weird stories. Examples: 

The business has shut down - why would you not mention this to the CO and try to find alternative means to confirm the reference BEFORE they try calling?
The referrer gives incorrect information on the phone - why have you not discussed the possibility beforehand that they may be called? Tell them to keep the letter handy so they can indeed confirm its contents.
They spoke to a colleague who has no idea what I do - how on erth did they get through to a random member of the team? IF the colleague purposefully gives incorrect information this is defamation which can be prosecuted.

When you ask for references and file the application, assume that they will be contacted, using the details you gave and possibly through HR. Ensure you've spoken to people to let them know what will happen. Ensure the contact details you give are directly for the referrer. Ensure you update the CO before application or during should there be ANY changes which make checking the authenticity problematic: e.g. company buy-outs, mergers, name changes, closure, address changes, etc. One of my references was from a bankrupt company. I provided evidence of bankruptcy, etc.Another had changed legal name. I provided press releases announcing the same.

Really, you need to work to make sure these kind of things don't crop up. You don't want a NJL.


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> Nothing as yet


Greg when did your employment verification happen, and what happened during the verification process. please share your timeline


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Mate mine was not an employment related nj - no verification was done for me 

I am assuming it must have been done at the skill assessment stage


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## Sai_Lakshmi (Sep 6, 2015)

Greg1946 said:


> Quick update guys - I have had a co contact yesterday asking me to redo Medicals and pcc
> My timelines
> Application date- 17th August 2015 - crossed 500 days
> Several contacts however the last one was on 21st march with an NJ- replied on 16th April 2016 and was waiting since then


Hi Greg1946,

Congrats mate. When you replied to the CO regarding NJL you attached the documents in the mail and uploaded those in the immigration account ? Any other action required from our end.

Regards,
Sai


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

No this is all - wish you luck


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> No this is all - wish you luck


so what was the information that they were confused about?


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

My nj was with regards to a court order which had some handwritten stuff on it - this was basically some handwritten stuff updated by the lawyer . The handwritten stuff was genuine however they felt the court order has been tampered with 

Do had to give the minutes of the order, etc to prove that the handwritten stuff updated was not malicious but relevant to the case


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> My nj was with regards to a court order which had some handwritten stuff on it - this was basically some handwritten stuff updated by the lawyer . The handwritten stuff was genuine however they felt the court order has been tampered with
> 
> Do had to give the minutes of the order, etc to prove that the handwritten stuff updated was not malicious but relevant to the case


oh man thats a bummer....hand written notes and additions are part of the system here in the indian subcontinent.


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## akash2016 (Apr 6, 2016)

i submited reply of NJL on 23rd Jan 2017..


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

akash2016 said:


> i submited reply of NJL on 23rd Jan 2017..


what was the reason for getting NJL?


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

Sai_Lakshmi said:


> Hi Greg1946,
> 
> Congrats mate. When you replied to the CO regarding NJL you attached the documents in the mail and uploaded those in the immigration account ? Any other action required from our end.
> 
> ...


please share your timeline.


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

It is there in my earlier post


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## akash2016 (Apr 6, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> Mate mine was not an employment related nj - no verification was done for me
> 
> I am assuming it must have been done at the skill assessment stage


Hi,

As i know there are no chances of verification at the stage of Assessment.

Mine verification stuck after 11 month of file lodgement.


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## akash2016 (Apr 6, 2016)

any update ? how long they take normally after NJL ? any one know shortest time ? i know someone got visa in 45 days of NJL reply.. any one else have any information ?Thank you


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Mate nothing can be said about NJS. Some take 1 to 2 months, some take 4 to 5 months and some like mine are waiting for 10 to 12 months. 
No math has worked here. 2015 njs usually used to take 4 to 5 months, but for some reason 2016 njs are taking longer

In my experience of being on forums I have seen genuine cases get through eventually. If everything provided is fine and we can substantiate that with evidence everyone goes through 

Usually if a case officer is not convinced with evidence he comes back immediately. If documents are fine and you don't hear back, the only thing you need to hope for is a clear verification 

All the best mate. Just have no hopes on a early response. Assume a timeline of 10 to 12 months . If you get it earlier think of it as a bonus


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## akash2016 (Apr 6, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> Mate nothing can be said about NJS. Some take 1 to 2 months, some take 4 to 5 months and some like mine are waiting for 10 to 12 months.
> No math has worked here. 2015 njs usually used to take 4 to 5 months, but for some reason 2016 njs are taking longer
> 
> In my experience of being on forums I have seen genuine cases get through eventually. If everything provided is fine and we can substantiate that with evidence everyone goes through
> ...


Thank you for information dear.

Are you waiting from too long after NJL ? or since file lodge.. ? I finish 1 year since i lodge file.. You mean more 10 month i have to wait ?


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Yes have been waiting for 18 months since visa lodge 

It is 11 months since nj reply , however was asked to redo Medicals and pcc in Jan this year


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## vikaschandra (Aug 5, 2015)

One of my friend was granted visa today post NJ. The wait was for 2 months after he submitted his entire set of evidences.


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Just an update guys 

Received the request today to pay vac2 for my mother


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

Great sign. All the best. Grant is around the corner.



Greg1946 said:


> Just an update guys
> 
> Received the request today to pay vac2 for my mother


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> Just an update guys
> 
> Received the request today to pay vac2 for my mother


Any update brother ?


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Yes got the grant on 22nd feb . Had posted on forums 
Apologies for not posting it her


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

Greg1946 said:


> Yes got the grant on 22nd feb . Had posted on forums
> Apologies for not posting it her


Thats really great news.. Finally your waiting over with happy Ending... Welcome to Australia... Thank you for your reply.:cheer2:


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

any more updates this week?


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## Wayward (Feb 28, 2017)

Hi vikas and Greg 

I have posted my application details earlier, I was wondering if at all I can get any opinion from you guys.

I have applied for 189 with 65 points ( software engineer). I have received NJL without employment being verified, as they couldn't able to find company website ( as they were searching with incorrect spelling) 

I have replied to NJL ,5 months ago but haven't received any replies from DIBP after that. 
Just curious what can be done to expedite the process. I tried emailing and calling them couple of times but didn't receive any significant update. 

Should I upload that NJL reply document to Immi account ? I would be grateful if you could able to provide your opinion on this please. 

Regards


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

Guys Any Updates this week or last week?


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

any update Guys ? i am still waiting after NJL reply 90 days cross..


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

NO Update for me yet.


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

a friend of mine got NJL 

DIBP says during certain period of his employment, the roles and responsibility matches to that of an external auditor, however he has applied as an Accountant.

what can and should be done in this case ???

any guidance will be helpful


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## Saadi (Sep 5, 2013)

sultan_azam said:


> a friend of mine got NJL
> 
> DIBP says during certain period of his employment, the roles and responsibility matches to that of an external auditor, however he has applied as an Accountant.
> 
> ...



Hasn't he assessed his employment from CPA????


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

Saadi said:


> Hasn't he assessed his employment from CPA????


this employment was certified positive by the skill assessment authority, but still DIBP is saying otherwise


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## sk804 (Mar 16, 2014)

sultan_azam said:


> this employment was certified positive by the skill assessment authority, but still DIBP is saying otherwise


Not sure why DIBP is coming up with such issues!
i mean to say, most job duties are overlapping with one another codes, important is validation.

IMO......He will have to write back and explain (with proofs) about his role & responsibilities and comparison between both job roles, to convince CO.

best wishes....


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

sk804 said:


> Not sure why DIBP is coming up with such issues!
> i mean to say, most job duties are overlapping with one another codes, important is validation.
> 
> IMO......He will have to write back and explain (with proofs) about his role & responsibilities and comparison between both job roles, to convince CO.
> ...


thanks, i will pass on this message


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## Ozforsure (May 19, 2017)

indoauzzi said:


> Guys,
> 
> I finally got the grant today. It was a very anxious wait of close to a year with NJ letter to top it.
> 
> ...


Hi Indoauzzi,

What evidences did you provide when you responded to the NJL? Please provide some details; it will help me arrange evidence along similar lines.
Thanks a ton!


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## Ozforsure (May 19, 2017)

Ozforsure said:


> Hi Indoauzzi,
> 
> What evidences did you provide when you responded to the NJL? Please provide some details; it will help me arrange evidence along similar lines.
> Thanks a ton!


Bro Indoauzzi,

Please share what evidence/docs you provided to get the grant post NJL. Very much need your specific inputs on this.

Thanks,
Ozforsure


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## Abood (Aug 3, 2016)

sk804 said:


> Not sure why DIBP is coming up with such issues!
> i mean to say, most job duties are overlapping with one another codes, important is validation.
> 
> IMO......He will have to write back and explain (with proofs) about his role & responsibilities and comparison between both job roles, to convince CO.
> ...


There is a big difference between accountant and auditor. It is like civil engineer vs. mechanical engineer. Both are engineers, but they are not the same. I think he stands no chance of justifying his position.


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

I have a problem in my current company .

Recently, my company name and also my designation changed from Aprl 1 . 

I asked explanation letter for company about name change from HR and they said ok. But, the problem is currently my roles&responsibility totally different than before due to my current designation . 


Anything happen if I submit new r&r and designation ?





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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

worldking said:


> I have a problem in my current company .
> 
> Recently, my company name and also my designation changed from Aprl 1 .
> 
> ...


What is your status?

Have you lodged your visa application or you have just submitted your EOI ?

Also give details of your ANZSCO code 

Cheers


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

newbienz said:


> What is your status?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes , I lodged 190 visa and all docs uploaded except PCC. CO contacted for PCC last march after that no update . 

Any idea about my above enquiry newbienz?


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

worldking said:


> I have a problem in my current company .
> 
> Recently, my company name and also my designation changed from Aprl 1 .
> 
> ...


I think there is a form which you can fill in which you can give the details of change of circumstances.

Please recheck. I am not sure

Inform the CO of the new name of the company and your designation supported by proofs for the same from your HR.
There is no need to submit details of your current role as it is not relevant to your application unless specifically asked by the CO

Th CO is interested in only verifying all the facts that you gave till the date your EOI was accepted by DIBP.

So you have nothing to be worried about.

Cheers


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

worldking said:


> I have a problem in my current company .
> 
> Recently, my company name and also my designation changed from Aprl 1 .
> 
> ...


i second thoughts of "newbienz" on this matter


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

newbienz said:


> I think there is a form which you can fill in which you can give the details of change of circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for your reply newbienz & sultan .

So, I just upload company name change letter & my new designation through immi account right ? Pls correct me if I am wrong .

Thanks again 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

worldking said:


> Thanks for your reply newbienz & sultan .
> 
> So, I just upload company name change letter & my new designation through immi account right ? Pls correct me if I am wrong .
> 
> ...


yes


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

sultan_azam said:


> yes




Thanks sultan brother 


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

Got Re AFP & Medical on 19 May. total 16 month since apply.


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## i90087 (May 14, 2017)

Hi mate this post is really helpful, thanks for updating

wish you good luck for Australian endeavorss


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

Finally i got golden Email yesterday. Thank you every one to share knowledge and thank you Expat forum Team for providing nice platform. Thank you all who told me "be patience" ... Cheers !!


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

visa190qld said:


> Finally i got golden Email yesterday. Thank you every one to share knowledge and thank you Expat forum Team for providing nice platform. Thank you all who told me "be patience" ... Cheers !!


Hey congrats for the visa grant... it was a really long terrifying journey for you...

wish you good luck for next step


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> Hey congrats for the visa grant... it was a really long terrifying journey for you...
> 
> wish you good luck for next step


Thank you so much...


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## deepgill (May 30, 2015)

visa190qld said:


> Finally i got golden Email yesterday. Thank you every one to share knowledge and thank you Expat forum Team for providing nice platform. Thank you all who told me "be patience" ... Cheers !!


Congratulations visa. 🍫


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

Thank you dear


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

visa190qld said:


> Thank you dear




Congrats bro.
All the best for future endeavours 
God be with you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

visa190qld said:


> Finally i got golden Email yesterday. Thank you every one to share knowledge and thank you Expat forum Team for providing nice platform. Thank you all who told me "be patience" ... Cheers !!


Many Many Congratulations, Happy to hear this  Long and struggling journey over now.


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## PL2277 (Aug 30, 2016)

Hi guys. Although this question was asked before akso, but I can't seem to find the answer to it.
For those who got the NJ, what the R&R done regardless of the fact if points have been claimed or not. This is simply out of curiosity as I see even genuine cases being referred to the NJ route.
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

PL2277 said:


> Hi guys. Although this question was asked before akso, but I can't seem to find the answer to it.
> For those who got the NJ, *what the R&R done *regardless of the fact if points have been claimed or not. This is simply out of curiosity as I see even genuine cases being referred to the NJ route.
> Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


*what the R&R done *

this is not clear , what do you want to know actually, mind paraphrasing ??


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## PL2277 (Aug 30, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> *what the R&R done *
> 
> this is not clear , what do you want to know actually, mind paraphrasing ??


My apologies for not asking a clear question. 

I simply need to know if R&R background check is done even if no points have been claimed? And I posted this question here as I wish to know from people who have gone through the NJ route, as they might know better.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

PL2277 said:


> My apologies for not asking a clear question.
> 
> I simply need to know if R&R background check is done even if no points have been claimed? And I posted this question here as I wish to know from people who have gone through the NJ route, as they might know better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


i havent gone through NJ route, but as far as i know in 99% of cases verification wasnt done for R&R if points weren't claimed


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## PL2277 (Aug 30, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> i havent gone through NJ route, but as far as i know in 99% of cases verification wasnt done for R&R if points weren't claimed


Okay. Thanks sultan_azam. 

I would also like to wait for an answer from other who have gone through the NJ route. 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

I believe R&R Verification is not done, if employment points is not claimed.


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## PL2277 (Aug 30, 2016)

arunomax said:


> I believe R&R Verification is not done, if employment points is not claimed.


Thanks @arunomax. Any other seniors can also validate. It will be great. 


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

PL2277 said:


> Thanks @arunomax. Any other seniors can also validate. It will be great.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk



Your query has been answered, whats there to validate.

Why do you think DIBP waste their time looking into things that are not relevent to applicants claims.

Besides, Applicant knows that H/she is genuine, but DIBP job is to make sure that those claims and the docs supporting the claims are genuine.


Hope it helps


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## PL2277 (Aug 30, 2016)

JP Mosa said:


> Your query has been answered, whats there to validate.
> 
> Why do you think DIBP waste their time looking into things that are not relevent to applicants claims.
> 
> ...


Sir, 

Apologies if my question sounds repetitive. As a matter of fact, in your post, your 2nd and 3rd paragraph are contradictory to each other. And hence am further confused. 

Can I say "Shant gada-dhaari Bheem" 

Regards 


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

PL2277 said:


> Sir,
> 
> Apologies if my question sounds repetitive. As a matter of fact, in your post, your 2nd and 3rd paragraph are contradictory to each other. And hence am further confused.
> 
> ...





If you are confused, you should come out of it

If you go through my 2nd paragraph,

I said DIBP will not bother about things that applicant did not claim

In 3rd , I said it's DIBP duty to confirm the authenticity of docs provided by applicant for the claims h/ she made. As you quoted in your earlier post "even some genuine candidates also receiving NJL"

Lastly, I can say "Moosuko" ( it's my mother tongue)



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## er_singh (Dec 26, 2015)

ANZSCO Code: 263311
189 category: 
July-2015: EOI Submitted 
Sep-2015: Invited
OCT-2015: Visa Applied
Jan-2016 : Job Duties Verification Call
DEC-17 : Natural Justice Letter Issued
FEB-2017 : NJL Response
April-2017--ASKED FOR NEW MEDICALS AND PCC
May-2017--PCC and Medical provided

TILL THEN NO RESPONSE

Somebody plz suggest what is the situation now??


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

er_singh said:


> ANZSCO Code: 263311
> 189 category:
> July-2015: EOI Submitted
> Sep-2015: Invited
> ...




Hi Singh ..,

I am wondering , For what reason they gave NJL in Dec ? 


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

worldking said:


> Hi Singh ..,
> 
> I am wondering , For what reason they gave NJL in Dec ?
> 
> ...







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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

:second:


er_singh said:


> ANZSCO Code: 263311
> 189 category:
> July-2015: EOI Submitted
> Sep-2015: Invited
> ...


The very fact that they asked you to resubmit your PCC and medicals after NJL is a big positive step for you

I think your application is in quite an advanced stage of assessment and you should get the grant soon
You just have to be a bit more patient 

Cheers


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## er_singh (Dec 26, 2015)

worldking said:


> Hi Singh ..,
> 
> I am wondering , For what reason they gave NJL in Dec ?
> 
> ...


i think they felt asleep, after giving reminders from agent they wake up and gave me NJ letter

They said the words"since your employers have not verified your job duties". I contacted my both employers personally. My e employer Hr was so helpful that showed the replied mail to DIBP.

i dont understand why they said such thing.


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

er_singh said:


> i think they felt asleep, after giving reminders from agent they wake up and gave me NJ letter
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Omg 


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## aafs88 (May 19, 2017)

Can someone please guide me. 

I lodged my Visa in October 2017.
I have claimed about 2 years of experience in my job with company Xyz until March 31, 2017.
I got my Vetasses assessment done in April 2017. 
Along with my Visa Application, I have submitted the R&R, Payslips, Form 16, Form 26, Bank Statements, Company Incorporation certificate for the same.
The company has shut operations April 1, 2017 onwards. They have shut down the website too. Only 1 employee remains (The Finance VP, who issued me my R&R letter and also she is the referee for my application).

My concern is, since the website isn't up and running, should I declare this in advance to my CO. Do you think not disclosing this could lead to issues? 
OR
Do you think disclosing all this would unnecessarily complicate matters and delay my Visa processing?

I am fretting since I read they issued NJL to someone in the forum due to his company website not being found, and I really wish to avoid such a situation in my case.

Any help or suggestion on this matter would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Aafreen


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## teenasarun (Jul 13, 2016)

Dear all,
I too got natural justice letter in Jul 2017. My case was already delayed so much since I was pregnant when I submitted the Visa application in Oct 2016. My baby was born in Nov 2016 and due to the long procedure of adding newborn baby as third applicant, i was waiting for the visa grant. Baby's medicals were done in 2016 Feb. After that I didn't receive any communication from DIBP until Jul 2016. 
In June, they conducted my previous employment verification and found some discrepancies. So they issued me the letter of Natural justice. I discussed the same with my previous company managers and collected statements from them favoring my visa application and submitted it to DIBP in Aug 2017. On 15 th Dec, I was asked to submit my latest PCC. On 2 nd Jan, I received the VISA GRANT!!
So, I would like to remind you all that receiving Natural Justice letter doesn't mean the end if your case is genuine and you haven't submitted any false documents. 
Looking forward to a new beginning in Australia. Cheers..


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## subbu1981 (Oct 5, 2016)

teenasarun said:


> Dear all,
> I too got natural justice letter in Jul 2017. My case was already delayed so much since I was pregnant when I submitted the Visa application in Oct 2016. My baby was born in Nov 2016 and due to the long procedure of adding newborn baby as third applicant, i was waiting for the visa grant. Baby's medicals were done in 2016 Feb. After that I didn't receive any communication from DIBP until Jul 2016.
> In June, they conducted my previous employment verification and found some discrepancies. So they issued me the letter of Natural justice. I discussed the same with my previous company managers and collected statements from them favoring my visa application and submitted it to DIBP in Aug 2017. On 15 th Dec, I was asked to submit my latest PCC. On 2 nd Jan, I received the VISA GRANT!!
> So, I would like to remind you all that receiving Natural Justice letter doesn't mean the end if your case is genuine and you haven't submitted any false documents.
> Looking forward to a new beginning in Australia. Cheers..


Hi,

Thank you for the motivation, since I am in a similar situation like yours. I received NJL since my current employer could not be contacted. I submitted my NJL reply on 10th Nov 2017 and hoping to receive a positive outcome soon.


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## bunnychhabra (Sep 12, 2016)

*Expert Advice needed*

Guys I applied as a wholesaler 133312 for VISA 190 and got a NJ on 8th November. I replied to the NJL on 20th November and am waiting till now. The proofs I uploaded i my reply was:
1. A video of my warehouse.
2. A video of way to my warehouse (2 approaches)
3. A govt. certificate stating my warehouse as my place of work
4. A video of my office and all the staff working in it.

Now the problem is that due to some unavoidable circumstances I had to sell that warehouse and move somewhere else on rent. Now, shoulj I upload the required documents proving that? Basically it depends on if they will visit again or not.

My case is a 100 % geniune and anybody in my trade in my area can vouch for me being a wholesaler.

PLEASE GUIDE!


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## ami27 (Jun 11, 2016)

Congratulations....
when they asked for resubmit medical and PCC?
On which date you get N J in July 2017?



teenasarun said:


> Dear all,
> I too got natural justice letter in Jul 2017. My case was already delayed so much since I was pregnant when I submitted the Visa application in Oct 2016. My baby was born in Nov 2016 and due to the long procedure of adding newborn baby as third applicant, i was waiting for the visa grant. Baby's medicals were done in 2016 Feb. After that I didn't receive any communication from DIBP until Jul 2016.
> In June, they conducted my previous employment verification and found some discrepancies. So they issued me the letter of Natural justice. I discussed the same with my previous company managers and collected statements from them favoring my visa application and submitted it to DIBP in Aug 2017. On 15 th Dec, I was asked to submit my latest PCC. On 2 nd Jan, I received the VISA GRANT!!
> So, I would like to remind you all that receiving Natural Justice letter doesn't mean the end if your case is genuine and you haven't submitted any false documents.
> Looking forward to a new beginning in Australia. Cheers..


----------



## Ozforsure (May 19, 2017)

bunnychhabra said:


> Guys I applied as a wholesaler 133312 for VISA 190 and got a NJ on 8th November. I replied to the NJL on 20th November and am waiting till now. The proofs I uploaded i my reply was:
> 1. A video of my warehouse.
> 2. A video of way to my warehouse (2 approaches)
> 3. A govt. certificate stating my warehouse as my place of work
> ...


Hi bunnychhabra,

Not sure what the latest status is. However, it is always better to inform DIBP of any change at your end.
1. You may want to submit any documents that show that you have taken up a new warehouse on rent (a lease agreement would do), including the date when you moved.
2. You may also submit an affidavit/declaration by a local trader body/other owner/someone who is from the area or trade, stating that you are a trader and you were located at X place till so-and-so date and now you are located at Y place since so-and-so date.
3. In your message to DIBP, also reiterate that you are happy to present yourself before any official/agent from DIBP for verification.

The idea is to make you appear as a genuine applicant, with no false claims.

All the best! Cheers!


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

Guys how long they take to issue NJL after employment verification... any idea


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## abbas.kakajewala (Aug 16, 2017)

Hi guys i also received a NJL 
basically i have worked in Australia as an Accountant for 5years and also working as BDM and marketing manager for overseas company on commission basis. So the conflict arise here that while filing my previous 457 visa on offshore company i didnt disclose that i worked as an accountant in australiaian firm to avoid rejections but the sponsorship and nomination was rejected anyway and my CO claims that in previous marketing visa application form 80 you have not mentioned of your accounting jobs but in 189 application as accountant i am claiming 5years of accounting experience.

All my tax returns are submitted under accountant occupation employer certificates. 

Now i need suggestions how i can clarify this situation in a persuasive way to my CO.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

abbas.kakajewala said:


> Hi guys i also received a NJL
> basically i have worked in Australia as an Accountant for 5years and also working as BDM and marketing manager for overseas company on commission basis. So the conflict arise here that while filing my previous 457 visa on offshore company i didnt disclose that i worked as an accountant in australiaian firm to avoid rejections but the sponsorship and nomination was rejected anyway and my CO claims that in previous marketing visa application form 80 you have not mentioned of your accounting jobs but in 189 application as accountant i am claiming 5years of accounting experience.
> 
> All my tax returns are submitted under accountant occupation employer certificates.
> ...


If I were in your shoes, I would not waste time looking on the comments in the forum 

You are in very serious trouble as you have hidden information in your previous application , which has come to the notice of the CO
Time and again, members have stressed not to give wrong or hide information but yet you have chosen to do the same in your previous application 
Now the same has come back to bite you 

You should immediately get in touch with a reputed Australian based MARA agent who specialises in NJL
Maybe they can suggest a way out

Cheers


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

abbas.kakajewala said:


> Hi guys i also received a NJL
> basically i have worked in Australia as an Accountant for 5years and also working as BDM and marketing manager for overseas company on commission basis. So the conflict arise here that while filing my previous 457 visa on offshore company i didnt disclose that i worked as an accountant in australiaian firm to avoid rejections but the sponsorship and nomination was rejected anyway and my CO claims that in previous marketing visa application form 80 you have not mentioned of your accounting jobs but in 189 application as accountant i am claiming 5years of accounting experience.
> 
> All my tax returns are submitted under accountant occupation employer certificates.
> ...




What are your timelines pls


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## abbas.kakajewala (Aug 16, 2017)

adnanghafor said:


> What are your timelines pls
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


timelines as in workexperiences?


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

abbas.kakajewala said:


> timelines as in workexperiences?




Means when u lodged , when CO contacted , when EV happened and when you got NJL?


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## abbas.kakajewala (Aug 16, 2017)

adnanghafor said:


> Means when u lodged , when CO contacted , when EV happened and when you got NJL?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


application lodged in OCT 2017 
CO appointed in December 2017
NJL Received in May 2018


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## shjuthani (Nov 27, 2012)

Dear All,

I had also received the Natural Justice query in January 2017 and replied with all proofs and letters. Still got no revert from their side. Its has been almost 1.5 year after replying to their natural justice query. I have also submitted feedback on their portal regarding the visa processing and received standard answer about processing etc.

I want to send them an email for expediting the application. Can anyone help me/guide me for the same? As I have heard that in multiple cases, people have sent an email requesting fasten up the process and they got quicker processing on their application, so on which Email id should I send them query for application revert?

Regards,


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

shjuthani said:


> Dear All,
> 
> I had also received the Natural Justice query in January 2017 and replied with all proofs and letters. Still got no revert from their side. Its has been almost 1.5 year after replying to their natural justice query. I have also submitted feedback on their portal regarding the visa processing and received standard answer about processing etc.
> 
> ...


Yours is a NJL case
If I were in your shoes, I would not poke the bear

Let it come on it’s own

Cheers


----------



## bunmmy5 (Jul 7, 2018)

Dear jeff,

I got a mail from dibp today on natural justice. Here is the detail of the letter.
justify the grant of the visa. The following applicant(s) included on your application for Student (subclass 500) must satisfy the PIC 4020 requirement. This means that failure to satisfy PIC 4020 by any one of them may result in each person included in this application being refused the grant of this visa.

your visa application you declared “No” and “Yes) for the questions: ? Has the applicant, or any person included in this application, held or currently hold a visa to Australia or any other country? You answered “Yes” Given details: Nairobi Kenya

? Has the applicant, or any person included in this application, ever been in Australia or any other country and not complied with visa conditions or departed outside their authorised period of stay? You answered “No”

? Has the applicant, or any person included in this application, ever had an application for entry or further stay in Australia or any other country refused, or had a visa cancelled? You answered “No”

? Departmental records indicate that SONAIKE Olubunmi Stephen has had applications for entry for Canada and USA and he has not travelled to this countries.

Please advise when did you apply and what the outcome of the visa applications was.

On the basis of the information above, you have in fact provided false and misleading information regarding your visa history on your current visa application. Your visa application may therefore be considered for refusal on the basis that you do not meet PIC 4020.

You are therefore invited to provide a detailed written comment on any of the above information. In addition, you are requested to provide any information that relates to:

? compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or

? compassionate or compelling circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen .

Timeframe for response You must respond to this invitation to comment within 28days after you are taken to have received this letter. You should provide your response in writing..

I was out of the country when my spouse made the visa application and was not ask if such a situation has occurred before.

What do u advise me to do

Reply
Jeff Harvie
Jeff Harvie	on 07/01


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## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

bunmmy5 said:


> Dear jeff,
> 
> I got a mail from dibp today on natural justice. Here is the detail of the letter.
> justify the grant of the visa. The following applicant(s) included on your application for Student (subclass 500) must satisfy the PIC 4020 requirement. This means that failure to satisfy PIC 4020 by any one of them may result in each person included in this application being refused the grant of this visa.
> ...


If you applied for a visa to the USA and Canada, and it was granted, and you didn't travel to those countries and that wasn't a breach of any visa conditions, I don't see the issue.

If you applied for a visa to the USA and Canada, and it was refused - I don't think using the reason "my wife submitted this application on my behalf while I was overseas" is a compelling reason, even if true. In fact I think that might land you or the person who submitted the form on your behalf without your knowledge in more trouble. 

Personally I would withdraw the application and reapply. Disclaimer, this post is my personal opinion only and by no means professional migration advice, I would suggest you contact a migration lawyer if you feel there is scope to persuade the CO.

Edit: are you the agent Jeff? And is your wife also a MARA agent who was acting on behalf of the client? 

Only asking cause I found a Jeff Harvie who is a MARA agent who works with his family here:
https://www.downundervisa.com.au


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## Gurwinder41 (Apr 2, 2016)

abbas.kakajewala said:


> application lodged in OCT 2017
> CO appointed in December 2017
> NJL Received in May 2018


when ur EV was happened ..date ?


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## Rajesh2323 (Jun 27, 2016)

Hey mark, I m looking for some valuable advice since I received a NJ letter on 9/7/2018. I am already in contact with a MARA agent but still want u guys to share ur experience and advice me to get the proper and prompt answers I can for NJ letter. They have raised the following points and I have mentioned my reason with each point.
1. They showed my photo to some neighbor businesses and no one recognised me. 
- I don’t know whom they asked but the reality is it’s been many years I’m working in this institute and the location is so crowded and have many ways to reach there, I normally use a shortcut street and also, never interacted with any of local shopkeepers, as I m very reserved in nature and don’t like to make unnecessary contacts. As, you may know in India people take it to other level if you are open with others.Moreover, there is drastic change in me(picture attached for reference) sometimes people do get confuse. Furthermore,I rejoined this company after four years of gap. Further my designation is facility manager, so never felt any need to interact anybody outside my workplace.

2. then they pointed that referee stated that I joined the company in 2011, then took a gap of about a year and rejoined. But I worked from 2007 till 2011, then went to UK for 4 years and rejoined in 2015 till date.Mr Satpal stated this only and said she left in 2011 and rejoined in 2015, He also showed copies of my experience certificates and answered accordingly.It might have misunderstood.

3. Further they said, I advised that there are 4 other employees with names while Mr Satpal said 9-10 employees at different designations.
Here I mentioned the employees who were present at that time and one who was on an informed leave and not the total number of employees work there. I have also explained to officer that because of some major health problems to our owner, institution faced a downfall and because of that some of employees left without any information and didn’t joined back but they didn’t officially resigned either, and on other side Mr Satpal mentioned all who were in record and not explained the whole situation. So, at that time I was not aware who all he still kept in record and mentioned only those I was sure about.

4. We were sitting next to the stairs that students were using to enter their classroom. At that time officer pointed in that direction and asked how many students were there, thus, on asking about the number of students I said currently 15 students are taking classes upstairs of mobile repairing. But to the other officer, Mr Satpal mentioned total number of registered students i.e 40-45 students including students that were enrolled for other courses that NEC institute offers or will join after sometime and I only mentioned the students that were currently present in the class of mobile repairing at that time. Moreover, to keep the exact information about number of registered students is not part of my work duties also.

5. Then, I said I get salary in account, my mistake is I didn’t say in form of a cheque. And manager said they give me salary cheque. My point here was that my salary is credited in my account, the way is through cheque. Also, he always gave me crossed cheque which is equivalent to getting the salary in bank account. 
To support this I have scanned cheques for last 6-7 months.

6. Further they said, referee was unable to find any evidence of attendance and also stated that attendance is not maintained since June 2017, which is totally a wrong statement. Referee has provided the attendance record from year 2015 till June 2017 to the officer, which she checked properly and also clicked the pictures of the same attendance registered on her own and I didn’t send any attendance record via email. Also, referee didn’t say that record is not maintained since June 2017, instead he said because of his health issues he couldn’t maintained it himself, so one of our staff was doing it and she was not present that day and we couldn’t find the register and requested officers to wait for few minutes until we find it, on that, lady officer said that they have to leave and its fine as she has already checked the other register, so its alright. Then I requested them to provide the email address if they are getting late and can’t wait so that I can send them the scanned copy of register when we find. She provided the email address but found that the domain name of that email address was not correct at the time I tried to send the attendance next day on 20/1/2018. I was confused if she did it purposely or its just a mistake. Hence, I didn’t send any attendance through email, they checked that register physically and clicked the records of June 2017, March 2017, July 2016, April 2015. 

7. And lastly for job duties, they feel that my workplace is small and my occupation is Facilities Manager, so according to them scope of duties are limited as per the size of business. But on my experience letters I only mentioned duties I perform on daily basis and those are not any technical duties which will come with any paper records that I can show them to prove. Here I am really confused.

Thanks


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## PL2277 (Aug 30, 2016)

JP Mosa said:


> If you are confused, you should come out of it
> 
> If you go through my 2nd paragraph,
> 
> ...


Noted your response. But what's Moosuka? Enlighten us dear friend! 

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## Gurwinder41 (Apr 2, 2016)

nepalibabu1 said:


> I got a NJL on 25th of July.
> My referee was not able to answer any question properly and on the top of that he said that he work in a hotel but I have quoted him as my line manager in a electrial engineering company.
> 
> Now how can i get out of this mesh and what should i submit to prove that i am not wronrg. The fact is that he also earn the company and a hotel so what would be the best wayo to reply to department.
> ...


ur time line plz ?


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

nepalibabu1 said:


> I got a NJL on 25th of July.
> My referee was not able to answer any question properly and on the top of that he said that he work in a hotel but I have quoted him as my line manager in a electrial engineering company.
> 
> Now how can i get out of this mesh and what should i submit to prove that i am not wronrg. The fact is that he also earn the company and a hotel so what would be the best wayo to reply to department.
> ...




Ur time line plsss


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## himsrj (May 1, 2018)

aafs88 said:


> Can someone please guide me.
> 
> I lodged my Visa in October 2017.
> I have claimed about 2 years of experience in my job with company Xyz until March 31, 2017.
> ...


Many congratulations on grant received


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## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

himsrj said:


> Many congratulations on grant received


Think you got the wrong thread!


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## himsrj (May 1, 2018)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> himsrj said:
> 
> 
> > Many congratulations on grant received
> ...


Yes apologies for that by mistake


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## bunnychhabra (Sep 12, 2016)

*OMG .. What a journey .. Got my grant*

Applied : 12 July 2016
Subclass 190
Skill: Wholesaler

Then I was not contacted at all for a year or so. I called them, emailed them 'n' no of times, but it was of no use. 

Around mid 2017 they visited for inspection. The office they visited was our oldest registered office (that's why I provided that address in my application), but not much business is carried out there. That particular office was just there because it was the starting point of our company in 1960 and we didnt want to shut it down.
They didnt meet me but an employee and they werent satisfied, obviously.

I got a Natural justice letter.

I posted videos, pics and a lot of other documentation that proved that I was always present at an office in another location doing the same business and explaining the whole situation.

So now they visited my other office. This time due to some reasons I had to sell that office, but another (third) office was at a walking distance from there and this was my factory. A guy at the sold out place told the inspectors that I was available at the factory office, so they came over and again I explained the whole situation. I took around 20 mins and a lot of questions and then they left.

7th November (on diwali) I got my Visa.
My visa does not state any conditions of staying in south australia (sponsoring state). Can I move to another place?

Also, now I am really in a pickle as now I have expanded my domestic operations and everything is going well here. I am really scared of the thought of starting from a scratch and 'what will I do there?'

If anyone has a job or a businesss opportunity in Australia (particularly Adelaide) please contact.


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## deepgill (May 30, 2015)

bunnychhabra said:


> Applied : 12 July 2016
> Subclass 190
> Skill: Wholesaler
> 
> ...


Congratulations mate💐


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

Hi mates.. so far i did not see any whatsapp group for people who recieve NJL.. i am planning to start a whatsapp group for NJL cases... if you are intrested.. pls pm your number to add...


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

Finally my long journey of 2 years comes to an end with Grant email today. This was a very stressful journey with NJL on top of it. Special special special Thanks to @Tony and @keeda who supported me a lot throughout the journey and without them i could not make it for sure. To all fellow members.... pls do not loose hope as it will come for everyone. Below are my timelines

Journey started* on 17th March 2017
Submitted for Engineers Australia Assessment : 27-04-2017
EA Assessment Outcome : 30-05-2017
EOI created : 01-06-2017 with 65 points
Appeared in PTE again for score improvement : 18-11-2017 and cracked it and reached to 75
NSW invite received : 10-01-2018
190 Visa Lodged : 20-01-2018
1st CO contact for Polio Certificate : 24-04-2018
Employment Verification : 22-05-2018
NJL received due to HR refused to verify rnr letter signed by Direct Manager : 14-09-2018
NJL replied : 04-10-2018 (Attached 30+ Documents)
Visa Grant : 13-02-209
Everything was done by my own without help of any agent. only got support from fellow members of this forum







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## kodaan28 (Nov 25, 2014)

Happy for you mate as it worked out fine in the end! 

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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

kodaan28 said:


> Happy for you mate as it worked out fine in the end!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Tapatalk


thx

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## Mohammed786 (Apr 11, 2013)

Congrats Adnan and all the best for your future endeavour. What all documents you submitted after receiving njl for your employment?



adnanghafor said:


> Hi mates.. so far i did not see any whatsapp group for people who recieve NJL.. i am planning to start a whatsapp group for NJL cases... if you are intrested.. pls pm your number to add...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adnanghafor (May 12, 2017)

Mohammed786 said:


> Congrats Adnan and all the best for your future endeavour. What all documents you submitted after receiving njl for your employment?


Thx.... Submitted more than 30 documents..mostly 3rd party evidences like bank statements , attested contracts , official emails, photos, videos, invoices etc.. etc..

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## tashi11 (Jan 7, 2017)

Hi all,
I applied for visa 190 in June 2017 with 65 points while the point requirement was only 60. The skill I have applied for is software development. I received a natural justice letter in February, 2018 for one of my employment claims. I responded with extra proofs of employment. Received a response again asking me to submit further proofs of financial transactions and taxations. I submitted all of those in April, 2018. Since then I have been waiting for a result and it is now nearly an Year.
The employment I received the NJ contributed 5 points which I shouldn’t have claimed in the first place as I had extra points. 
Now with my job as a software developer in Australia I am eligible for more points, but I am stuck with this visa application in hanging, though I clearly am eligible for the visa category. 
I desperately need help as I am stuck in a limbo. Your help and suggestions will be highly appreciated.


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## bedo (Sep 19, 2017)

adnanghafor said:


> Finally my long journey of 2 years comes to an end with Grant email today. This was a very stressful journey with NJL on top of it. Special special special Thanks to @Tony and @keeda who supported me a lot throughout the journey and without them i could not make it for sure. To all fellow members.... pls do not loose hope as it will come for everyone. Below are my timelines
> 
> Journey started* on 17th March 2017
> Submitted for Engineers Australia Assessment : 27-04-2017
> ...


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## bedo (Sep 19, 2017)

Congratulations on your grant lately, this is really a good & positive news that help myself to thinking strong and hold on hope. I applied for visa 190 General accountant and claimed 5 points for my working experience. I worked first as a casual and being made permanent part time for my company. Last week i received NJL regarding that my hourly pay on my payslip is changing from payslip to payslip, suspecting that payslips were manipulated to meet the employment claim. However, when I checked with my boss, it’s actually the company accounting system - Xero set up, so for an employee who got paid once a month on an annual salary base will have a fix payment monthly, however, the accounting system used the number of business days in a month to calculate working hours and hourly rate thereby will vary. I also can ask my boss to write his own letter to justify this fact, and he is happy to provide his payslips as well to show it happens to him too. I also contacted the accounting software, Xero, and they also advised similar customers case on their public support page, I can easily find information about it online. Could you please advise me about your case what else can I do to justify this fact? I know it’s such a stressful situation but hopefully you could give me some words based on your experience of lodging the reply by yourself. My heart skipped a beat when i received the NJL letter, i hope you can read this email thank you so much for your time !


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## sapdeva (Jan 22, 2019)

Hi Friends,

one of my previous company was closed down, do I need to inform them before? Not sure what to do, please advise them

I've all the documents including form 16, payslips, relieving and other letters,

thanks in advance.


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## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

sapdeva said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> one of my previous company was closed down, do I need to inform them before? Not sure what to do, please advise them
> 
> ...


Have you got a NJL or just asking about updating the department?

If the latter, just use the Update Us tab on Immiaccount or upload a cover letter stating so.


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## awara (Mar 1, 2019)

What is NJL. Does anyone get grant after they are issued NJL. What percentage of applications get NJL.


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## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

awara said:


> What is NJL. Does anyone get grant after they are issued NJL. What percentage of applications get NJL.


NJL = natural justice letter and an invitation to comment on adverse info discovered/received by the department related to an application. 

Yes people do get grants after they are issued a NJL, with a well prepared response to the departments concerns. Some might withdraw their application if they are not confident of doing the above, or have indeed misled the department. 

You could submit a freedom of information request to find out what % of applications get a NJL - I would be curious too! But anecdotally, a minority it seems.


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## sapdeva (Jan 22, 2019)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> Have you got a NJL or just asking about updating the department?
> 
> If the latter, just use the Update Us tab on Immiaccount or upload a cover letter stating so.


Thanks for the reply 

So for no contact from CO, just checking.
I'll wait then , If CO contacts will provide the letter, otherwise I'll leave it

Regards,
Dev.


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## sam1030 (Jun 12, 2018)

Hi Folks, 
Please guide me about the mode of response to NJ email. Should I just press "reply" in my email and give my explanation along with evidences in attachment?
I could not find any link or an option or a text box on my IMMI account such as "Reply here to natural Justice" or anything like that...
Thanks in advance !


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

sam1030 said:


> Hi Folks,
> Please guide me about the mode of response to NJ email. Should I just press "reply" in my email and give my explanation along with evidences in attachment?
> I could not find any link or an option or a text box on my IMMI account such as "Reply here to natural Justice" or anything like that...
> Thanks in advance !


Check your Immiaccount 

Is the information provided button active ?
If so, then reply by email your explanation along with all the documents as attachments 

Upload one set of the same documents in Immiaccount also if you have spare slots available 
Then press the IP button

Cheers


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## sam1030 (Jun 12, 2018)

NB said:


> Check your Immiaccount
> 
> Is the information provided button active ?
> If so, then reply by email your explanation along with all the documents as attachments
> ...



Hi NB, 
Thanks a lot for your response. 

There is no active information button. 

In the "Messages" section, under list of correspondence, there are 2 PDFs regarding NJ (the same that I received in the email). 

In "Update Details" there is nothing relevant to select, since nothing has changed in my situation. 

Yes, I do have spare slots available in "Attach Documents, so as you suggested, I will upload the proofs in my defense. 

I received the NJ email from this ID [gsm. allocated @ homeaffairs. gov. au], should I reply to it or is there another email ID ? Sorry for a bit long post.
Regards,
Sam


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## RockyRaj (Dec 9, 2017)

sam1030 said:


> Hi NB,
> 
> Thanks a lot for your response.
> 
> ...




Sam, I noted in an another thread as well that when a CO contacted, an applicant indicated similar issue. Normally the status should change from Received to Initial Assessment when a CO contacts. However, the applicant in the another thread indicated it is still in received state and the option to press Information provided button is not available/active. I believe it is a system issue so you reach to them to get this button activated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

sam1030 said:


> Hi NB,
> Thanks a lot for your response.
> 
> There is no active information button.
> ...


Reply to the same email id from which you got the NJL

Cheers


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## sam1030 (Jun 12, 2018)

Thank you Rocky and NB !


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## Kenochie (Oct 17, 2017)

Dear all.. The company I worked in one of my work episode is closed down and not operational anymore.. Which section do I provide this information when lodging visa


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Kenochie said:


> Dear all.. The company I worked in one of my work episode is closed down and not operational anymore.. Which section do I provide this information when lodging visa


Have you got a NJL ?

Cheers


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## Kenochie (Oct 17, 2017)

NB said:


> Kenochie said:
> 
> 
> > Dear all.. The company I worked in one of my work episode is closed down and not operational anymore.. Which section do I provide this information when lodging visa
> ...



No I havent. Just about lodging my visa and I want to provide information beforehand.. To avoid potential NJL


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Kenochie said:


> No I havent. Just about lodging my visa and I want to provide information beforehand.. To avoid potential NJL


If you keep posting on random threads, you may get wrong answers

Stick to the threads relevant to your situation to be safe

Cheers


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## masumbibm (Mar 26, 2018)

Received NJL for pic 4020 .

The reply was generic from my CEO in terms of RNR which differed from Direct manager during employment verification.

WHAT CAN I DO?

CEO knows very little than direct manager that's the reason for such mismatches.

I lost my hope, please who have the experience suggest me...


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

masumbibm said:


> Received NJL for pic 4020 .
> 
> The reply was generic from my CEO in terms of RNR which differed from Direct manager during employment verification.
> 
> ...


Enagage a good Mara agent to draft your reply

But you should be prepared to shell out considerable amounts of fees without the surety of a positive outcome

Cheers


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## aerohit (Feb 6, 2019)

So they called both CEO and Manager? Interesting - I wonder what made them do that.


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## ROYRAJU135 (Dec 24, 2017)

TheExpatriate said:


> If you can support your statement and provide well founded evidence, go ahead and respond
> 
> Otherwise, withdraw the application to avoid a 3 year ban


I had a wrong place of Birth mentioned in my Old passport but corrected the place of birth in new passport basis of Birth Certificate. I had employement Visa of UAE in both passports. Now PCC from UAE mentioned my place of birth as wrong as per Old passport,,Is this will be an issue if I submitted during Visa lodge? How to solve this issue as the immigration dept-UAE and my employer PRO refused to do the correction,,,


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## aman_47470 (Jan 8, 2019)

Hello Everyone 
Visa file 15 June 2017 489
Physical enquiry 17 November 2017
Natural justice letter April 2018 and replyed with all the information in 20 days
Emailed immgration on 16/02/2019 to check on update and reply came back next to do medical and pcc
Visa grant on 9 April
Guys dont loose hope if it genuine case... please take your time reply NJ letter 
Thank you everyone


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## Da__N (Oct 18, 2018)

aman_47470 said:


> Hello Everyone
> 
> Visa file 15 June 2017 489
> 
> ...




Congratulations dear.

Can you please give more details regarding your NJL case? What was the issue of your employment and how you overcame it? 

It will help others I believe..

Thank you


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## aman_47470 (Jan 8, 2019)

Hey,
I am internal auditor and they came to office on public holiday in punjab ... i wasnt there and they asked few people in my office and job role and duties which they cannt answer properly as not everyone know your job duties... they also asked for documents to prove that i work there but it is privacy issue as they cannt show paperwork to any ordinary person even they are immigration offier... they requested to take to my company owner or they never called me pn that moment to see me... i hired lawyer and replied them with strong evidence and explanation... i took 20 days to reply and provide them all four bank statements, payslips appointment letters fresh letter from owner affiliated from couple of employees etc ... just believe on case offier and they will grant you... they also emailed by employers asking questions about job roles after replied by NJ letter


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## aman_47470 (Jan 8, 2019)

Sorry they never requested to talk to my owner


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

aman_47470 said:


> Hey,
> I am internal auditor and they came to office on public holiday in punjab ... i wasnt there and they asked few people in my office and job role and duties which they cannt answer properly as not everyone know your job duties... they also asked for documents to prove that i work there but it is privacy issue as they cannt show paperwork to any ordinary person even they are immigration offier... they requested to take to my company owner or they never called me pn that moment to see me... i hired lawyer and replied them with strong evidence and explanation... i took 20 days to reply and provide them all four bank statements, payslips appointment letters fresh letter from owner affiliated from couple of employees etc ... just believe on case offier and they will grant you... they also emailed by employers asking questions about job roles after replied by NJ letter


Did you draft the reply yourself or you took professional help?

Sorry just noticed, you took help of a lawyer

Good decision. That’s the way one should go, in case of a NJL


Cheers


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## abhiaus (Jul 6, 2018)

indoauzzi said:


> Guys,
> 
> I finally got the grant today. It was a very anxious wait of close to a year with NJ letter to top it.
> 
> ...


Can you please suggest me how did you prove your employment was valid ?
what were the documents you submitted to additionally prove your employment was genuine and what actions you took?
Please advice as it can me also proceed?


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## abhiaus (Jul 6, 2018)

aman_47470 said:


> Hey,
> I am internal auditor and they came to office on public holiday in punjab ... i wasnt there and they asked few people in my office and job role and duties which they cannt answer properly as not everyone know your job duties... they also asked for documents to prove that i work there but it is privacy issue as they cannt show paperwork to any ordinary person even they are immigration offier... they requested to take to my company owner or they never called me pn that moment to see me... i hired lawyer and replied them with strong evidence and explanation... i took 20 days to reply and provide them all four bank statements, payslips appointment letters fresh letter from owner affiliated from couple of employees etc ... just believe on case offier and they will grant you... they also emailed by employers asking questions about job roles after replied by NJ letter


Dear Aman, 

Can you please suggest me a good lawyer or reference of lawyer you hired for replying to NJL.


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## abhiaus (Jul 6, 2018)

Greg1946 said:


> Quick update guys - I have had a co contact yesterday asking me to redo Medicals and pcc
> My timelines
> Application date- 17th August 2015 - crossed 500 days
> Several contacts however the last one was on 21st march with an NJ- replied on 16th April 2016 and was waiting since then




Can you please suggest any good Lawyer or Mara Agent who can help in case of NJL?
What was the issue for sending NJL in your case ?


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

abhiaus said:


> Can you please suggest any good Lawyer or Mara Agent who can help in case of NJL?
> What was the issue for sending NJL in your case ?


Has a NJL been issued to you?


Cheers


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## vikrshar (May 17, 2017)

I've also received NJL last year in Aug for not able to contact my employer. I replied them with updated email IDs and till now no updates from them. I am planning to send them a reminder. Any suggestions what should be the best point of contact: to email them via home affairs email ID or Through Global Feedback Unit?


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

vikrshar said:


> I've also received NJL last year in Aug for not able to contact my employer. I replied them with updated email IDs and till now no updates from them. I am planning to send them a reminder. Any suggestions what should be the best point of contact: to email them via home affairs email ID or Through Global Feedback Unit?


You can Do both or either
But it is best not to chase up NJL cases and let the decision come naturally 

Cheers


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## vikrshar (May 17, 2017)

Thanks NB. You always help us with most appropriate suggestions. I am also thinking not to poke them via email as there are other applicants from 2018 who are still waiting. But, Patience is killing me every other day. Got tired of login immiaccount everyday, even on Saturdays. Not able to focus on other things in life. Atleast if I get a confirmation if they are fine with my employment. So that I can look for carrier opportunities.


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## abhiaus (Jul 6, 2018)

vikrshar said:


> I've also received NJL last year in Aug for not able to contact my employer. I replied them with updated email IDs and till now no updates from them. I am planning to send them a reminder. Any suggestions what should be the best point of contact: to email them via home affairs email ID or Through Global Feedback Unit?


Do you know is it a mandatory thing if they are not able to contact employer or employer doesn't have policies to give verification of candidate, does in these cases DHA issues NJL???
What does it signifies if someone gets NJL, like do you have any agent or Mara agent, or you are handling it yourself..

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## abhiaus (Jul 6, 2018)

vikrshar said:


> Thanks NB. You always help us with most appropriate suggestions. I am also thinking not to poke them via email as there are other applicants from 2018 who are still waiting. But, Patience is killing me every other day. Got tired of login immiaccount everyday, even on Saturdays. Not able to focus on other things in life. Atleast if I get a confirmation if they are fine with my employment. So that I can look for carrier opportunities.


I can understand your situation, I am also waiting since Jan 2019 ,completed 1 year mark yesterday. Meantime for almost 4 months I didn't follow expat forum or Immitracker. But I know the temptation to at least get some information, you keep going back..Now me also back again here..but bro ..no one can help you, you yourself have to be strong as you know what hard work , sweat you have putted in to reach to this point..

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## vikrshar (May 17, 2017)

I don't know what criteria they consider cases under NJL. But what I know is they put NJL cases on lowest priority. I think I should also refrain from forums and immitracker. It's better to stay quite and wait


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