# Considering the move to Portugal: Present Time Advice Sought!



## Findingmyway4ever (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi everyone!

My name is Mike and I have been following the board on/off for a bit now. I do need to do some DD, admittingly so, but bear with me if you do not mind! 

My wife and I are both in the US. She is from Romania originally, me from California. I have always lived near the ocean, and we are currently 3 blocks from the ocean in Oregon. I have felt a strong connection to the ocean since a kid, and my activities like Surfing are quite something I need to be doing in life. The situation is kinda like, take away the ocean and take away my child type of a feeling.

I have been in Europe about 5 times and I absolutely love it, particularly the East part, where I met my wife (in Romania). I have never been in any parts from Ireland down to Portugal. Furthest West has been Frankfurt, furthest East, Bulgaria/Romania/Greece. Whenever I have been in Europe, there is this feeling of home that only exists here in nature of the US. The feeling I get there is from the culture/energy/food/etc. etc. Culture/energy in US is stale. It has no feeling. Just the way it is for me and my wife feels the same way. It is not that the US culture is terrible and the people are foul, but that it's just not that same "way of life" kinda feeling it is in Europe.

Being that we both wish to have the Europe culture, and I need the ocean, Portugal is the place that I've arrived to, well not physically just yet, but in theoretical considerations of where to live in Europe when the appropriate time to make the move would be there for us.

So some questions that may be redundant because I do need to do more DD in the forum, but here they are:

1) We are very moderate people, meaning, we aren't lavish and are very good about how we save and spend our money. We would like to be near the ocean, near a good surf spot like Peniche, but we do not necessarily need to be in some place with a lot of people. We would be renting a place, preferrably a house (something detached so we have our own privacy and space, but not out in the middle of nowhere that we need to consider self-protection!).

Are there houses that are rented out in the Peniche coastal region or are they primarily apartments? What would be a fair/typical price to expect to pay for an 800sq ft or so house, 1-2 bedrooms. Something quaint, enough space, no need for anything fancy but nothing ugly either. Euros is of course the currency and the figure we are seeking.


2) Perhaps this should be part of question one, but expenses wise, what can we expect to pay, in full, for the Utility Bills/DSL/any other taxes or whatever the country applies. Note: For food, we like to cook much of what we eat, so going out is something we would probably do on say, once a week type basis, and nothing fancy. Very moderate/modest basic quaint, nice place with very reasonable pricing and of course good foods!


3) In terms of working, I know there is a person on the board, probably a few, that do not work, but their wife does. Right now, I am in a situation where I do internet related work, not the typical 9-5 type of stuff, while my wife does work the 9-5 type of job. Are there any requirements involved for either one of us to work? Hypothetically speaking, say both were not working and just living on money in the bank, would there be tax of some sort and if so, I guess may as well add that to the living expenses!


4) How safe is the country on a whole and how mellow or how would you describe the nature of the people on a whole? I know this is one of those gotta experience to know, but would you say the people are more like the Spanish, Greek, or entirely different than either and not really like anyone other than Portugese!


5) How much money would be a "safe" amount to bring over or be kept in the US bank in order to keep afloat while we are finding ways to make money? We only plan to rent, so no buying a house involved and again, just living modestly.


6) Lastly, is the time right now one of the worst times to be considering a move? I already mentioned understanding the recession issues in the US and though I have not experienced it in Portugal, if any US citizens can explain how much different, more difficult, or what to expect about the differences at this time, this would be great. 


On a whole, I'm trying to better understand the issues people end up facing after they have left their country, thinking Portugal is a place to head to, only to find some 2-3 years later, they are in a massive pit and having to make their way back to their native country. I obviously do not want my wife and I to enter into such a situation, but I feel we are quite aware of just how bad things are, though we do know the biggest challenge would be finding work.


Some present day insight on things, anything you would recommend/suggest, tips/approaches, blunt figures in Euros that would be needed both while being there and to save up prior to coming, overall atmosphere and way of life in Portugal at this time, and anything else you can think of that I have not addressed would be kindly appreciated.

Just wish to thank this board for existing, for one thing, and you all seem like good people making for a nice energy. 

Regards,
Mike


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## Findingmyway4ever (Jun 22, 2010)

Oh...I knew I forgot something (besides saying I just wrote a page out of a journal or something...hope you are all still awake after reading my post...LOL!):

Would you consider Portugal a place in Europe, at this time, to live in? Would you consider it a good value with respect to other countries?

Lets take an example of say, the mountains of Austria/Swiss Alps/etc. Some years ago, Portugal was dirt cheap by comparison. But today, both are about the same to live in. Is this true, or are these other places reknowned to be quite a bit more on the pricey side compared with Portugal still indeed pricier, and by a good margin?

Thanks again everyone and I pray that everyone is able to have as nice of a life as possible in spite things. It's the ability to be and live in a place that is so cherished that means everything, and I hope as many people in Portugal and other places they live in (I know this is the Portugal forum) are able to have as kind of a life possible with all that has been going on and sadly, likely to continue for many years.

Peace!


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## marge (May 17, 2010)

Hi, there is plenty of information on the forum regarding your questions. If you see a few earlier threads about the same subject, all those questions have been answered. I am replaying to give you, (hope you don’t mind), a little advice. You are saying that you never been to Portugal yet! Don’t you think you should come over first to see the country, before you even think about immigrating? If all you know are what you reed and see on the internet…
Greece has gone bankrupt; Portugal is heading the same way


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## Findingmyway4ever (Jun 22, 2010)

marge said:


> Hi, there is plenty of information on the forum regarding your questions. If you see a few earlier threads about the same subject, all those questions have been answered. I am replaying to give you, (hope you don’t mind), a little advice. You are saying that you never been to Portugal yet! Don’t you think you should come over first to see the country, before you even think about immigrating? If all you know are what you reed and see on the internet…
> Greece has gone bankrupt; Portugal is heading the same way


LOL!

That's not the answer I want to hear! There must be a beautiful and cheap place to live on the beach where I can surf waves and my wife can have lots of nice time with me enjoying the country. But you are correct. I have been in a lot of East countries, but never on the West. I have only had a lot of time around some people from Spain, very polite and also smart, very very simple by comparison to other European people I met in the East. Not a bad thing, of course, just different.

I'm sure if I tell my wife we will go in Europe and train around France/Spain/Portugal, then head over to the other countries, she surely will have no problem with that)))

I wish I could bring Europe culture to N.Cali so the best of both worlds existed, oh, and without bankruptcy that is))))


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## yorkshire lass (Apr 18, 2010)

living on the coast in any country will cost you more. So do you want to step out of your house and fall on the beach so you can go surfing? or go inland a few miles and drive to the beach, as a country Portugal is very small, and cost of living varies enormously according to where you choose to live. So for economic reasons it would be wise to look sufficiently inland, knowing you can drive to the coast, if its the coast you want, then get saving!!!

You must not be an older couple, as you are talking about working eventually, that too could be difficult, there is little or no industry, and wages are low


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## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

Reality, you wouldn’t get a half decent wave in peniche, for surfing, comparing with what you get over there. And yes I am still a “kid” in many things but moving to a country where I can’t even speak the language, never been there or near, just looks great on the net…? Came over, have a good look around, Do some research, visit a few times, make some connections, and after all that, you will see if it is doable or not for your family, even if it is still a risk.


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I do agree that you need to see the country but the fact you are asking such detailed questions tells me you are trying to do your research properly. You also mentioned you do web-based work which removes the employment problem: the biggest hurdle to most people of working age moving over here...

So, try not to let the glass-half-empty people drag you down! I often think the forums can seem a little unwelcoming to people who post for the first time - it's not ALL doom and gloom.

It can certainly be difficult - we live here and are EU citizens but the authorities have really struggled to understand how we can live here but earn all our money in the UK. I would imagine this being even harder if you are from the US...but not impossible. Nothing's impossible if you have enough determination!

So, I will try to answer your questions as best I can:

1. Don't know about Peniche but monthly rent where we live (East Algarve) on a 2 bed house would be 600-900 euros monthly.

2. Electricity - 65/mth
Gas - 30/mth
Water - 30/mth
TV/Phone/DSL Package - 50/mth
Meal out for 2 - 40-80 euros
Food shopping - google "Continente PT" and you can look at food prices.

3. This is a minefield. You would need to prove sufficient funds and have health insurance. If you became resident then your would pay tax in Portugal on your worldwide income (i.e. the work you do online) - this tax will be VERY high compared to taxation in the US. There is also social security to think about. You would need professional advice both here and in the US regarding these parts.

4. The country is very safe in the grand scheme of things but you still have to be aware of what is going on around you.

An example: we bumped into an American couple at a beach resort in the East Algarve. They had just had their car broken into and their wallets and passports stolen. They had left a bag on the back seat of the car in a beach carpark. A week previously they had been pickpocketed on a tram in Lisbon on a touristy route.

If they had read a guidebook they would have known NOT to leave valuables in the car and that pickpockets do work on that tram route. Not saying their misfortune was their fault, but it is not sensible to be uninformed anywhere in the world!

The Portuguese are fantastic people but can be surly with English speakers who make no attempt to learn and speak their language. This, to me, is as it should be...

5. This completely depends on how much of a risk-taker you are! We built up a safety net before we came which was probably smaller than most people would recommend but then we both had ongoing income from the UK.

I would say think of the sum you feel would be appropriate and double it - it disappears way faster than you would expect.

6. It's not a great time to make the move, but there's unlikely to be a better time as there is never likely to be a sudden boom in jobs here, wages will stay low etc. So you arrive back at the problem of employment. 

My OH and I would NEVER have been able to live here without her working remotely for a UK company and me working via the internet. Any work we got here as non-native Portuguese speakers would be minimum-wage type stuff (and minimum wage here is 450euros per month BEFORE tax.)

However if you can work via the internet, as millions of people do, or somehow work remotely for a company in the US then anything is possible, and this is an option that few people seem to consider.

Similarly, if you find a good business niche, it could just as likely take off here as anywhere else.

Good luck - and have a read of my blog, you'll find out how we have got on so far 

Best

B


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## Bubbles67 (Jan 19, 2010)

John999 said:


> Reality, you wouldn’t get a half decent wave in peniche, for surfing, comparing with what you get over there. And yes I am still a “kid” in many things but moving to a country where I can’t even speak the language, never been there or near, just looks great on the net…? Came over, have a good look around, Do some research, visit a few times, make some connections, and after all that, you will see if it is doable or not for your family, even if it is still a risk.


I agree with most of what John999 says, you have to come and look for yourself, no-one else can tell you what it is like,m as everyone has different expectations..as far as the waves I disagree, Beleal beach at Peniche and others along that coast are use for International Surfing Championships, so the waves can't be that bad can they..:eyebrows:


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## Benny Dorm (Mar 24, 2010)

Have a look at this site, it might be helpful.

European Commission - Your Europe - Citizens - Living in another EU country


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## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

Bubbles67 said:


> I agree with most of what John999 says, you have to come and look for yourself, no-one else can tell you what it is like,m as everyone has different expectations..as far as the waves I disagree, Beleal beach at Peniche and others along that coast are use for International Surfing Championships, so the waves can't be that bad can they..:eyebrows:


 Santa crus had a world cup surf tournament last year. 5,000 dollars for the winner


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## Miguelsantos (Dec 11, 2009)

John999 said:


> Santa crus had a world cup surf tournament last year. 5,000 dollars for the winner


What do you mean with that john? Is it because the rubbish prize money means bad quality contestants? Or do you mean the waves aren’t that god to attract the top surfers?


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