# Greece retirement location suggestions?



## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi all: I retired from my job last Jan. and have been knocking about Europe for a few months, testing my capacity and interest in the expat life and getting a feel for what kind of place I'm interested in (surprisingly difficult to narrow down, really!) Lately, I've been contemplating Greece and am hoping for some suggestions of where to consider spending a month or so to give it a try. 

So far, I've spent a month in Valencia, Spain, 2 months in the south of France (Montpellier and environs), now a month in Syracusa, Italy. So far, in my voyage of self-discovery, I've concluded that A) It's important to me to have good food markets nearby, preferably lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. B) I love being near the sea, but don't especially like beaches, per se. I'm adoring the "solarium" in Syracuse...a sort of rocky spit and manmade deck where one can sit in the sun and dive into the sea. C. I'm enjoying meeting other English-speaking expats, but don't want to live someplace where it's only expats. D) Someplace where I can fairly easily get to an airport with good flights to the rest of Europe is a big plus.
and finally, E) I have come to the realizaqtion that I like my environs to have history, but live in the modern world. Sicily is proving too dilapidated for me, long term, for example.

I would very much appreciate any suggestions you all might have about good prospects to look into. Happy to add more details, if that would be helpful!

Thanks!


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

There is nothing in what you write that would narrow down possible suggestions for you in Greece other than your point E. 

In fact, it is also the point that makes me think Greece may not be for you at all. If Sicily is 'dilapitated', I think you may well find Greece much the same unless you choose to stay in a modern suburb of Athens like Glyfada for example.

Maybe you should elaborate on what you mean by 'dilapitated'.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

You say you have been in Spain, France and Italy for a total of 4 months. Is that without leaving Europe for periods of time in between? Do you have a passport from an EU country? If you only have a US passport, are you aware of the Schengen 90 in 180 days rule?

Also, in reference to your title, 'retirement in', do you have the right to live in any of these countries? You might be surprised by how many people think they can just go somewhere and live without checking what the legal requirements are to do so. Retirement forums are full of people who think they can just pick any country they want and retire there.

So it would be a good idea if you indicate that you can legally do what you want to do. ie. you have a passport from an EU country.


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

*Conflicted and confused*

Hi Old Pro: Rereading my message, I probably wasn't as clear or coherent as I should have been, particularly when trying to articulate what I'm looking for in a retirement location. But first let me clarify that yes, I am here legally. I have a freelancer visa (native speaker English teacher) from Germany, good until end of Feb.2016 and GErmany has been my home base for my travels. I'll be back there come the end of Sept. to teach a course at a local university and perhaps some other courses. I expect to have to either leave the Schengen area at end of Feb. for at least 90 days or have made application well before then to another country for a non-lucrative retirement type visa and have the financial resources and health insurance necessary to do so. I know I should be able to get such a visa in Spain or France, but haven't fully looked at details for Italy, Greece or other countries yet. Meanwhile, I'm using the opportunity to do some exploring. 

My problem right now is that I seem to be getting no where in terms of figuring WHERE I might want to be. I spent much of the year before retirement doing research and trying to rigorously profile what I wanted as well as what I could and couldn't tolerate. But my travels so far seem only to be making a decision harder, as I am increasingly aware of the options and possibilities and find that I like this about this place, that about another. The truth is, I'm terribly conflicted about what I want in a retirement location and keep hoping that I will somewhere find the right balance. But I am beginning to fear that I will weary of traveling long before I stumble across the place my heart says is home. So I'm hoping that wiser, more well traveled and experienced souls can help me narrow the choices a bit. 

Greece appeals on a number of scores: Weather (the more south, the better); history; the sea; the food. But I don't know if there are places where there would be enough activities (lectures, museums, music, etc.); like-minded people (well-educated, English speakers...since I fear Greek may be beyond me); and modern conveniences...ie. apartments or homes with modern, well equipped kitchens and baths; a large and varied market or at least a supermarket where I can buy fish, meat, poultry, fruits and vegetables that I am familiar with (don't need familiar processed foods, just want to be able to cook some of the stuff I'm used to!) without having to drive a long way (and preferably not at all). 

As for the description of Sicily as dilapidated...well that was asinine and I can only plead an extreme case of tiredness when I wrote it. I was letting the broken air conditioner, the lack of phone service and the lack of a decent kitchen in the apartment I'm staying in color my judgment about the whole city (Syracusa) and island too much!

Any and all suggestions, advice welcome. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the choices...if not by the process!


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

OK, well good to know you understand the legal situation and we can dispense with that.

I lived on the island of Rhodes for several years and loved it. However, reading your comments now about your interests and wants, I don't know if anywhere is going to meet all of them. 

Really, without trying to be rude, I think your expectations are not in line with reality. No doubt you could find what you want in Rome, Paris, London, etc. but other than in a fairly cosmopolitan city, I think you will struggle.

There is always that wish to have things the 'same as home' in a place that is NOT home. You cannot have all the things Europe has and not accept ALL the things it does not have. For example, when I lived on Rhodes I think I knew a handful of expats I would call well educated English speakers. No doubt there are far more in Athens but that's of no use if you don't want to live in Athens (I certainly didn't). 

On the other hand, other wants like a modern home is not a problem if you have the required money to pay for it. But if your budget will not stretch to what you are asked to pay to rent a place that has an American size refrigerator, then that's that.

Then there is your marketplace requirements. Everything you want to be able to buy may be available but it may not be available all in one place. If you chose a Greek island, you are not likely to find a megasupermarket as you would find in N. America. You may have to go to a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker all individually to get all you want.

In Greece there are two words used in regards to the English word 'tomorrow.' Avrio (ah vrio)translates as 'tomorrow' but when it refers to a repair on your airconditioner, you learn it means sometime in a week or so, give or take a few days. If the response to your request was 'meta avrio' which translates in English to 'after tomorrow' that means perhaps, sometime if the Gods will it so.

Here is a true story. One day I was expecting a relatively important letter in the mail (pre-digital age). Checking my mailbox every day for it, I eventually noticed that no mail was being delivered at all to any of the mailboxes. So I asked my landlord if there was a strike by the Post Office or something. His response was simple. 'It's August, the mailman takes his vacation in August.'

As far as he was concerned, that was all that needed to be said. For him the logic was simple. If the mailman is on vacation you cannot expect mail to be delivered. Greek logic is nothing if not entirely logical. But that logic can be extremely frustrating to someone from another country who expects things to work 'like they do at home.'

I've lived in half a dozen countries and visited quite a few more for extended periods of time. Although I cannot provide a link to any empirical data, I can tell you that based on my own observations, for every 10 people who move to what they expect to be their 'retirement paradise', 5 are gone wtihin 2 years and only 1-2 are still there after 5 years.

The simple fact is that most don't 'stick'. The single biggest reason for that (again my personal observation and opinion only) seems to be a simple inability to accept 'different'. Not good or bad, right or wrong, just different. Unfortunately, there is no way to know if any individual will stick other than to try it.

I'm not saying don't try, I'm saying try but also try to accept different if you can.

If you want to try somewhere in Greece, there are countless places you could try. Rather than in a large city like Athens or Thessaloniki, I personally prefer an island. If you want to try an island then there are lots of choices but again, one is about as good as any other so there is nothing to narrow down your choice.

I can suggest Rhodes to you and can even suggest a place to stay. It is where I stayed for 5 of my 7 years on Rhodes. The link indicates that they are holiday rental apartments which is true but they will also rent out longer term if someone wants to. You can negotiate a monthly rent.
Niki Hotel Apartments

If you look at the apartment photos you will see most have a full(umm, kinda) size fridge/freezer, an oven as well as a cooktop, a washing machine, central air conditioning and more important, central heating (rare in many places) in winter.

It's a bit of a walk into town to shop but quite doable. You'd probably take a taxi back with groceries. Taxis are relatively cheap. But I would not want to live anywhere on the island without having transportation. That is just too limiting. There are public buses to take you around the island but often they too run on 'island time', not a fixed schedule. 

So there you go, a dart stuck in the map for you. As good as any other suggestion.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

If ever someone wanted to know of a country where the people and culture 'live in the now' and pay little if any attention to the future, Greece would fill the bill.

When I look at the current financial crisis in Greece and all the talk about what has to be done to solve the problem etc. I just shake my head. No one is taking Greek culture into account.

If a people live for today and you loan them money, they will spend it obviously. But why would you expect them to worry about paying it back in the future? That to me is a case of putting general 'western culture' thinking onto a people who don't think that way and probably never will. That expected behaviour is not logical for people who live in the now.

Greece is a country where the majority of the people are only one or two generations away from living on the land or what is pretty much a peasant society. Families on Rhodes that I know, may own a restaurant or hotel and make money off tourism in the tourist season. Then they go to the farm for the winter and bake bread in the outdoor oven just as their Mother or Grandmother did all her live. The economy could collapse entirely, the people will just go back to the land and do as generations before them did. 

In many ways, people are as modern and up to date as anywhere else. Cellphones, Twitter, etc. but in some ways it is like going back in time. 

There is a saying in Greek which is, 'ti na kano mai' (best I can do for spelling). It translates simply as 'what can I do'. It is usually accompanied by a shrug of the shoulders, raising of the hands palm up and a lifting of the chin. What it really means is, 'it's in the hands of the Gods', not mine. It is a perfectly acceptable answer to almost anything.

'I owe you money but I don't have any to pay you with, ti na kano mai.' One day maybe the rest of Europe and the International Banks will figure that out and take their demands for payment to the Gods. 

They say you cannot reason with unreasonable people. But when they say that, they always assume your idea of what is reasonable is the ONLY definition of what is reasonable. One of the things I learned while living in Greece is that 'reasonable' is a very fluid thing and can be defined in different ways by different people. 

The mailman who does not deliver mail when he is on vacation is not unreasonable at all. The expectation of someone that it will be delivered when he is on vacation could easily be argued to be unreasonable. LOL


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

Old Pro has given you some very good advice. If I had a € for every person who could not 'stick' - I truly would be a wealthy woman. If a broken air-conditioner, phone line and badly equipped apartment were getting you down before, unfortunately you will find very similar problems everywhere in Greece.

If you feel that Greece could be the place for you, instead of looking for a permanent retirement place why not stay for a few weeks or months in different places to see how you get on?

You have to really love the country, its people and their customs to stay here.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

Ah hiatusxenia, you have hit on my approach exactly.

I have been retired for over 25 years (from age 43). I have never made a decision on 'where to retire to' yet. I've just gone somewhere and stayed till I was ready to leave.

I went to Rhodes on the advice of a bartender in Athens who when I asked, 'which island should I visit?' suggested the 'green island' Rodos. So I got on a ferry thinking I would perhaps spend a week or so on the island before moving on. I stayed for 7 years.

When I would meet tourists and they would find out I had been on the island several years, some of them would ask, 'what made you decide to stay on Rhodes?' and I would truthfully answer that I had never decided to stay on Rhodes, I just hadn't decided to leave yet. When I did decide to leave, I packed up and was gone within a week.

That was 2 countries and 3 locations ago.


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## concertina (Oct 18, 2012)

Greece is not the backward under developed country that some members may have found whilst living here many years ago and its not correct to relate to things that happened here many years ago as if that is the now and unless someone has first hand knowledge of living here very recently or right now how can they tell anyone what life is like here right now? especially when they live on the other side of the planet.If someone is financially secure here they can find all the things they require for their life to function normally as they would anywhere else in a developed country which Greece is.Life on the smaller Islands may be a bit more difficult as I have said in previous posts but the bigger Islands will be fully functional and have a large expat support group if needed.All The Arts are here for for you,most islands have an arts festival every year,music,exhibitions,whatever is your thing.I can tell you that on Crete a few years back a young Cretan male,late teens had a very bad motorbike accident and was sadly wheel chair bound and needing extensive therapy which his family could not afford,of course I dont just imply they were backward peasants living on the land saying "what can we do? all day"ti tha kanoome?"hard working good people and normally happy to be content with their lot until disaster struck.So the expat community who happened to own many of the Ex Sea Captain old restored houses decided they would get together to raise money for the said young man to be sent and treated in Athens.They opened their houses for tours,held fetes,bric a brac sales,pony rides etc..etc..and off he eventually went.So you see life is what you make it anywhere and out from the cities you can find friends,rural life,real food,educated English speakers if you want and good warm educated Greek people who are generally non violent.And technicians for your house needs will arrive pretty much on time and the post.Of course Greece has taken a massive hit and the mood of people is understandably down but hey. dont we all know that the wheel turns and some things must change for the proper management of a country.I say again that if you are financially secure then Greece is a safe place to live,you can go out without getting your head smashed in,raped,murdered or all three.Im hoping that this will continue given the now saturation of Greece by migrants whose backgrounds have not been legally checked and may alter the face of society here for better or worse,time will tell.Its best to come and spend time here before making big life decisions.


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

concertina said:


> Hi Old Pro I didnt realise my writing skills were so poor and I have a masters in literature,well it just goes to show,blymy,half these famous writers cant really write,they even say DH Lawrence had to have a lot of editing,he kept repeating himself in his poetry,but thats nothing when your a genius I suppose.Well thanks for pointing that out,I must pay more attention,hope everything is good for you over in Canada,Canadian summers are lovely arent they.


I am relieved to hear you have a proof reader, Concertina.


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## concertina (Oct 18, 2012)

hiatusxenia said:


> I am relieved to hear you have a proof reader, Concertina.


Oh thanks,yes it does help,most genius types have a little help but not for the structural composition itself, that needs real talent.So what country are you in then?far from Greece?Im off to Hydra Island this month for a poetry recital,so busy,some other British poets there too.So hiatus,Im so very grateful for your input,really kind of you,oh and I hope the name hiatus doesnt mean you actually have a Hiatus Hernia or anything like that,thats nasty but when people are older they do get these things.


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## concertina (Oct 18, 2012)

Oh and just to add that you didnt think I needed a proof reader when I wrote a very long explanation about"carbon monoxide poisoning"especially for you cause you said yourself that you were obviously not educated about these things,you didnt know about spent fuels etc but understood fully my writing for you which was in depth,you didnt say it was illegible at the time.I see that you you would like the option of a thumbs down for any posts you dont like or approve of,that wouldnt be sensible would it,youd just be inciting nastiness and that is not what the world needs.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes, I would also vote in favour of a thumbs down button hiatusxenia. But then I'm not scared by the thought at all. Some people no doubt would be.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Melissa58275 said:


> Hi all: I retired from my job last Jan. and have been knocking about Europe for a few months, testing my capacity and interest in the expat life and getting a feel for what kind of place I'm interested in (surprisingly difficult to narrow down, really!) Lately, I've been contemplating Greece and am hoping for some suggestions of where to consider spending a month or so to give it a try.
> 
> So far, I've spent a month in Valencia, Spain, 2 months in the south of France (Montpellier and environs), now a month in Syracusa, Italy. So far, in my voyage of self-discovery, I've concluded that A) It's important to me to have good food markets nearby, preferably lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. B) I love being near the sea, but don't especially like beaches, per se. I'm adoring the "solarium" in Syracuse...a sort of rocky spit and manmade deck where one can sit in the sun and dive into the sea. C. I'm enjoying meeting other English-speaking expats, but don't want to live someplace where it's only expats. D) Someplace where I can fairly easily get to an airport with good flights to the rest of Europe is a big plus.
> and finally, E) I have come to the realizaqtion that I like my environs to have history, but live in the modern world. Sicily is proving too dilapidated for me, long term, for example.
> ...





Jo xxx


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

Dear Concertina, my comment about proof reading was meant as a very mild joke although I confess to believing it important to write and spell grammatically in any language. 

Haha, "hiatus" - ouch!! Actually it was not a hernia that I had in mind but from the Latin meaning a brief pause, but I can see that it IS quite funny and I do hope we can laugh at ourselves sometimes! Xenia is from the Greek, of course.

Please do not think me ungrateful for your explanation about carbon monoxide. I will happily own up to no knowledge of chemistry or physics at all.


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## crunchy frog (Aug 18, 2015)

Have just read "oldpro"s summing up of the Greek psyche and think he has put it in a nutshell! If you move to Greece for a slower pace of life, don't complain about the slower pace of life.
We have jumped in at the deep end by buying a little village house near to Korinthos as a second home for our family to enjoy. We love the area and we also have greek speaking family in Athens who helped us through the buying process. Looking forward to eventually moving over there for good.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

I hope you 'stick' crunchy frog. You have as you say, 'jumped in at the deep end'. 

To improve your chances of sticking especially after you move there in retirement, may I make one suggestion. Avoid spending much time with other foreigners.


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