# How Safe?



## Howler

Hello Gang!!

It's been awhile, but I still haven't been able to convince my wife to retire, yet. I keep telling her that it doesn't hurt - I done so TWICE now, but she still wants to give it one more year before retiring... then she wants to join the RV Nation for a couple of years before settling down firmly into life in Mexico. I'm still hoping that we'll start house-hunting or building something within the next year or so. We still get down there every summer to Veracruz, Taxco & Queretaro. Last year, we took in Tlaxcala & Puebla - and visited Ixmilquilpan (Hidalgo) for the first time ever. It was GREAT!!

Here are my "safety" questions: 

1) How safe & practical is it to RV in Mexico? It's hard to find something comfortable that's less than 30 feet or so, but I don't think the length will make much of a difference if any RV is a roving target.

2) My daughter just had me read a book called "Murder City" (Charles Bowden) about the cause & effects of the violence in Ciudad Juarez. It would make you believe that it's connected all over the patria & that nobody is really safe. Any input from the rest of you living the life down there (especially if you've read the same book)?

I'd like to still believe that being down there with a bit of common sense as to where you go, with whom & at what time will keep you out of the most trouble. Add to that a healthy respect for the law enforcement and a willingness to "play the game" when stopped or shaken down for a mordida - and unless they are looking for you specifically, you should be okay. Right?

Your thoughts & experiences would be greatly appreciated!! :welcome:


Howler


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## ValRomx

Howler said:


> We still get down there every summer to Veracruz, Taxco & Queretaro. Last year, we took in Tlaxcala & Puebla - and visited Ixmilquilpan (Hidalgo) for the first time ever. It was GREAT!!
> 
> Here are my "safety" questions:
> 
> 2) My daughter just had me read a book called "Murder City" (Charles Bowden) about the cause & effects of the violence in Ciudad Juarez. It would make you believe that it's connected all over the patria & that nobody is really safe. Any input from the rest of you living the life down there (especially if you've read the same book)?


I think you've answered one of your questions - you've been to Mexico multiple times with no incident.


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## Isla Verde

Howler said:


> 2) My daughter just had me read a book called "Murder City" (Charles Bowden) about the cause & effects of the violence in Ciudad Juarez. It would make you believe that it's connected all over the patria & that nobody is really safe. Any input from the rest of you living the life down there (especially if you've read the same book)?


Did this book imply that the entire country suffered from the violence that used to plague Ciudad Juárez, or is that a conclusion you reached on your own? That would be like reading a book about a violent city in the States and taking from it the idea that the entire suffered from the same problems.


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## citlali

The problems with books is that there are outdated the minute they are written, situations can change for the better or the worst and there is no update, it is also one person´s experience and vision of place and that includes their sack of rocks..
Vera Cruz also has a bad repuation for cartels and violence and yet you visited there and enjoyed it so read or listen ,keep the info in mind but do not follow any book to the letter. 
Follow the news to know what is happening and enjoy the places. Correct, the cartels or gangs are not after you , but things happen: they were not after the 2 passers by from Ocotlan, Jal the other night and they still got killed along with 5 officers and 3 gang members, things can happen anywhere anytime but that is life in general. 
It is probably more dangerous driving anywhere because of crazy drivers than because of the police or the cartels.


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## joaquinx

citlali said:


> Vera Cruz also has a bad repuation for cartels and violence and yet you visited there and enjoyed it so read or listen ,keep the info in mind but do not follow any book to the letter.


I feel so terrified that I'll just stay in the house today. :noidea: It seems that the only people who don't have problems here are those that visit or live here.


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## sparks

Try RV.NET for RV experiences tho most seems to be the west coast


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## chicois8

RV in Mexico? Have you seen the movie "Were the Millers" LOL


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## RVGRINGO

What, me worry?
RVGRINGO, now too blind to drive and stuck in Tucson, where there seem to be shootings every night and a carjacking just a couple of blocks away last week.
I miss Mexico.....a lot.


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## mr_manny

Our Chihuahua gets Crazy Anxiety from the gunshots we hear twice a month...and were currently in the US


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## Isla Verde

mr_manny said:


> Our Chihuahua gets Crazy Anxiety from the gunshots we hear twice a month...and were currently in the US


The rather large dog who lives in the apartment across the hall from me lets out occasional yelps when someone knocks at the door. Don't know what he'd do if he heard gunshots. Luckily, none have been heard in my neighborhood, ever!


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## Howler

Isla Verde said:


> Did this book imply that the entire country suffered from the violence that used to plague Ciudad Juárez, or is that a conclusion you reached on your own? That would be like reading a book about a violent city in the States and taking from it the idea that the entire suffered from the same problems.


No, the violence in the book was centered in Ciudad Juarez, but the author illustrated how the entire country was linked by corruption & cooperation between the Army, the federal & state police, and politicians - all with the narcotraficantes & cartels. He went into some detail about how kidnappings & extortions were handled through these networks. Also interesting were how his criticisms were aimed at the Army, but he made no mention of the Marines who have been doing the majority of the high-profile arrests over the past several years.

If it was only about Ciudad Juarez, I wouldn't have asked for your perceptions from elsewhere in the country. To me, the violence in Mexico usually seems like when we lived in the Los Angeles area. Crime, violence & earthquakes/aftershocks always seemed like they were happening in a different country or world from where we resided. Yes, things happened near us from time to time, but not EVERYTHING at once that my relatives would see on the news back in North Carolina or Virginia.

Still, no matter how well I speak Spanish or can assimilate into the culture, it doesn't take away from the fact that I can still stand out (unintentionally) as an American when I am in Mexico... and a possible target for those with evil intentions. My wife was just too leery of the idea of raising our kids with the thought in mind that it would only take one incident to cause lifelong regret. Now that it's just us two, I'm not so concerned, but she is still a bit uneasy - she has had family (in Veracruz & Tampico) directly affected or threatened by the violence there.

Like another commenter said, that books are outdated the moment they are published - true... which is why I was probing your impressions from down there in preparation for our travel plans this year. As you know, the situation changes (especially from year to year) - whereas we used to always cross in Matamoros & stop in Tampico; the past couple of years we've crossed through Nuevo Laredo making a straight shot from the border to Queretaro & back.

Again, hope all is well with everyone. I look forward to continuing our explorations of the wonder & goodness that is still Mexico.


Howler


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## coondawg

And then, we have lived on a street in Chapala where there was a running gun battle between police and bad guys, our local assistant police chief was gunned down in broad daylight on the main street, grenades were thrown several times in town, one night bullets were whizzing in our driveway and we were in "duck and cover" mode, several local and innocent people were found "decapitated", etc. It can happen many places in Mexico, and none of that had ever happened to us NOB. One thing I know for sure is that you can not plan your trip on what someone here tells you about "safety" here because their experiences, knowledge, and habits will be very different from yours. Corruption, and kidnappings are prevalent in many places, not just cartel violence. Many new gangs are getting involved. When one cartel boss is captured, there are lots willing to take his/her place. No one here will give you a guarantee or a refund if their advice does not hold true for you. That should tell you something. Have a safe trip.


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## Angelpie99

I'd live in a lot of places in Mexico before I'd live in Tampa or Miami. The insanity and increasing violence in the U.S., most of it being perpetrated by the police here, are what is making me want to move TO Mexico. Sure, there are cities where I couldn't live. I wouldn't live in Detroit either, but lots of people do.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Angelpie99 said:


> I'd live in a lot of places in Mexico before I'd live in Tampa or Miami. The insanity and increasing violence in the U.S., most of it being perpetrated by the police here, are what is making me want to move TO Mexico. Sure, there are cities where I couldn't live. I wouldn't live in Detroit either, but lots of people do.



I'm just amazed by the statement that "The insanity and increasing violence in the U.S." ... "is being perpetrated by the police." And you feel safer running to Mexican police for help than American police?


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## cuerna1

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> I'm just amazed by the statement that "The insanity and increasing violence in the U.S." ... "is being perpetrated by the police." And you feel safer running to Mexican police for help than American police?


For openers - I'd like to say that aside from two incidents in Mexico (mordida); one in Saltillo, the other Acapulco - we have absolutely no complaints with the Mexican police and often times they have been extremely helpful.

I'm not very familiar with Tampa - although my parents lived in the Fort Myers area. We lived in the area between Miami and West Palm for many many years. While I was personally bothered by the proliferation of 'traffic' cameras etc over time we never experienced any violence - police or otherwise.


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## Hound Dog

cuerna1 said:


> For openers - I'd like to say that aside from two incidents in Mexico (mordida); one in Saltillo, the other Acapulco - we have absolutely no complaints with the Mexican police and often times they have been extremely helpful...


Ah, yes, the Mexican pólice. We had an accident on the slopes of the Tacaná Volcano near Tapachula, Chiapas a few feet from the Guatemala border several years ago(God help if we had rolled into Guatemala). The local pólice stole my wallet while I was incapitated in our car. Later, the federal police in Chiapas offered us a ride home to our hotel in Tapachula and they seemed., at first, like nice guys so I told them the local pólice in Unión Juarez had stolen my wallet while I was incapacited and they responded that, yes the local police always stole the belongings of anyone in an accident and that there was nothing they could do about it and, by the way, the ride back to the Tapachula hotel was going to cost us $5,000 Pesos and we could either pay or get out of the cop car at 3:00AM and walk on that dark rural highway back to Tapachula. We told them that the Unión Juarez cops had stolen all of our money but one of, as it turns out, still had a debit card so the feds took us to the nearest ATM where we could withdraw the $5,000 Peso bride required of us to be delivered by them back to the Tapachula hotel. We did this in fear for our lives and they delivered us to our hotel. We had to take a bus back to San Cristóbal the next day and another bus back to Tapachula (a very long bus ride) the next week and when we picked up our car at the taller, *everything,* including the frigging Jack, had been stolen by somebody. 

Talk to me about corruption.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

cuerna1 said:


> For openers - I'd like to say that aside from two incidents in Mexico (mordida); one in Saltillo, the other Acapulco - we have absolutely no complaints with the Mexican police and often times they have been extremely helpful.
> 
> I'm not very familiar with Tampa - although my parents lived in the Fort Myers area. We lived in the area between Miami and West Palm for many many years. While I was personally bothered by the proliferation of 'traffic' cameras etc over time we never experienced any violence - police or otherwise.


Glad you love the Mexican police. Have you ever talked to normal Mexicans about their love of their various police forces, perchance?

From what I understand, federal, state and local police have been furiously searching for those 43 missing students, but six months on, they haven't been able to find a single strand of DNA. Even with the most gruesome possibility mentioned by one prosecutor, that the bodies were burned and then dumped into a river, not a single strand of DNA has turned up in the most explosive case in Mexico I think since 1968 Tlateloco massacre. Not a single DNA strand? Mighty strange.


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## cuerna1

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Glad you love the Mexican police. Have you ever talked to normal Mexicans about their love of their various police forces, perchance?
> 
> From what I understand, federal, state and local police have been furiously searching for those 43 missing students, but six months on, they haven't been able to find a single strand of DNA. Even with the most gruesome possibility mentioned by one prosecutor, that the bodies were burned and then dumped into a river, not a single strand of DNA has turned up in the most explosive case in Mexico I think since 1968 Tlateloco massacre. Not a single DNA strand? Mighty strange.


Not going to go there - sorry. Peripherally - I thought the 'lab' work was handed off to some Argentinian entity and then - when that was inclusive - some Austrian entity. What does seem odd to me that a plane can crash in France and a week later they can find all the DNA to identify all the passengers.


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## GARYJ65

Hound Dog said:


> Ah, yes, the Mexican pólice. We had an accident on the slopes of the Tacaná Volcano near Tapachula, Chiapas a few feet from the Guatemala border several years ago(God help if we had rolled into Guatemala). The local pólice stole my wallet while I was incapitated in our car. Later, the federal police in Chiapas offered us a ride home to our hotel in Tapachula and they seemed., at first, like nice guys so I told them the local pólice in Unión Juarez had stolen my wallet while I was incapacited and they responded that, yes the local police always stole the belongings of anyone in an accident and that there was nothing they could do about it and, by the way, the ride back to the Tapachula hotel was going to cost us $5,000 Pesos and we could either pay or get out of the cop car at 3:00AM and walk on that dark rural highway back to Tapachula. We told them that the Unión Juarez cops had stolen all of our money but one of, as it turns out, still had a debit card so the feds took us to the nearest ATM where we could withdraw the $5,000 Peso bride required of us to be delivered by them back to the Tapachula hotel. We did this in fear for our lives and they delivered us to our hotel. We had to take a bus back to San Cristóbal the next day and another bus back to Tapachula (a very long bus ride) the next week and when we picked up our car at the taller, everything, including the frigging Jack, had been stolen by somebody. Talk to me about corruption.


Indeed, most Mexican policemen are corrupt, while others aren't
In different proportion, but it happens everywhere don't you agree?
Or, where you come from, are most policemen saints? 
I can tell you quite a few stories of mine


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## GARYJ65

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Glad you love the Mexican police. Have you ever talked to normal Mexicans about their love of their various police forces, perchance? From what I understand, federal, state and local police have been furiously searching for those 43 missing students, but six months on, they haven't been able to find a single strand of DNA. Even with the most gruesome possibility mentioned by one prosecutor, that the bodies were burned and then dumped into a river, not a single strand of DNA has turned up in the most explosive case in Mexico I think since 1968 Tlateloco massacre. Not a single DNA strand? Mighty strange.


While you are right in this case, American police "no cantan mal las rancheras" where is Jimmy Hoffa?
And why did it took like a decade to find Osama, and when they found him, after destroying their own helicopter, they had to kill the guy!
Incompetence abounds here and everywhere


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## GARYJ65

cuerna1 said:


> Not going to go there - sorry. Peripherally - I thought the 'lab' work was handed off to some Argentinian entity and then - when that was inclusive - some Austrian entity. What does seem odd to me that a plane can crash in France and a week later they can find all the DNA to identify all the passengers.


They found all the DNA, but Germans could not prevent a sick person from flying the darn plane, that is efficiency!


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

cuerna1 said:


> Not going to go there - sorry. Peripherally - I thought the 'lab' work was handed off to some Argentinian entity and then - when that was inclusive - some Austrian entity. What does seem odd to me that a plane can crash in France and a week later they can find all the DNA to identify all the passengers.


Exactly.


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## GARYJ65

Howler said:


> Hello Gang!! It's been awhile, but I still haven't been able to convince my wife to retire, yet. I keep telling her that it doesn't hurt - I done so TWICE now, but she still wants to give it one more year before retiring... then she wants to join the RV Nation for a couple of years before settling down firmly into life in Mexico. I'm still hoping that we'll start house-hunting or building something within the next year or so. We still get down there every summer to Veracruz, Taxco & Queretaro. Last year, we took in Tlaxcala & Puebla - and visited Ixmilquilpan (Hidalgo) for the first time ever. It was GREAT!! Here are my "safety" questions: 1) How safe & practical is it to RV in Mexico? It's hard to find something comfortable that's less than 30 feet or so, but I don't think the length will make much of a difference if any RV is a roving target. 2) My daughter just had me read a book called "Murder City" (Charles Bowden) about the cause & effects of the violence in Ciudad Juarez. It would make you believe that it's connected all over the patria & that nobody is really safe. Any input from the rest of you living the life down there (especially if you've read the same book)? I'd like to still believe that being down there with a bit of common sense as to where you go, with whom & at what time will keep you out of the most trouble. Add to that a healthy respect for the law enforcement and a willingness to "play the game" when stopped or shaken down for a mordida - and unless they are looking for you specifically, you should be okay. Right? Your thoughts & experiences would be greatly appreciated!! :welcome: Howler


Dear Howler

I have never used an RV in Mexico, you get to see those from time to time, there are not nearly as many RV sites here as there are in the US, therefore I think it would be somewhat different or not as practical as traveling in one here.
Get rid of that book, or get a zillion other books with the subject of drugs, murder, terrorism, serial killers, etc. in the US and then you might end up running south.
There are safer and unsafe places in Mexico, as much as in any other Country. I live here and have a family and have the same risk as anyone else. I would be much more afraid if living in many cities in the US.
Common sense, as you said, and street smart, that's all it takes.
Do not pay bribes to anyone, besides supporting that practice, you end up making a never ending vicious circle. The latter applies if you behave well, if not, you better not come down here.
Should you have tons of questions, I have the same amount of answers and would be happy to share and if possible, be of assistance to you
Saludos!


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## vantexan

Howler said:


> 1) How safe & practical is it to RV in Mexico? It's hard to find something comfortable that's less than 30 feet or so, but I don't think the length will make much of a difference if any RV is a roving target.


Your best info on current RV conditions in Mexico is at rv.net. Also the bible of Mexico RVing is "Mexican Camping" by Mike and Terry Church. Quite a few nice, large RV parks are on the coasts. Most RVing in Mexico is done in the winter on the coasts. There are some nice parks in the interior too, but a number of them are difficult to access with rigs longer than 24'. A number of parks shut down during the cartel wars, find out more on rv.net.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Your best info on current RV conditions in Mexico is at rv.net. Also the bible of Mexico RVing is "Mexican Camping" by Mike and Terry Church. Quite a few nice, large RV parks are on the coasts. Most RVing in Mexico is done in the winter on the coasts. There are some nice parks in the interior too, but a number of them are difficult to access with rigs longer than 24'. A number of parks shut down during the cartel wars, find out more on rv.net.


Quite a few? 
Have you been to, let's say, some of them?
Have you ever traveled in an RV in Mexico?


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> Quite a few?
> Have you been to, let's say, some of them?
> Have you ever traveled in an RV in Mexico?


No, not yet. Look up the website "On the road in" on Google for a map showing the locations of RV parks in Mexico. I was considering RVing in Mexico fulltime but then I got married. Did however do a lot of research. And I have both lived in a RV and delivered them professionally so I do know a bit about them. If you go to rv.net they've got a Mexico sub-forum that's very informative. Sorry I can't help you more.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> No, not yet. Look up the website "On the road in" on Google for a map showing the locations of RV parks in Mexico. I was considering RVing in Mexico fulltime but then I got married. Did however do a lot of research. And I have both lived in a RV and delivered them professionally so I do know a bit about them. If you go to rv.net they've got a Mexico sub-forum that's very informative. Sorry I can't help you more.


I think posters here ask for advice from people that actually have lived in Mexico, and their comments or advices are from real experiences.
Perhaps you may add to your comments that you have never lived in Mexico and your sources come from books, the web, etc. It might be very helpful for posters befor they pay any attention and follow advices.


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## TundraGreen

GARYJ65 said:


> I think posters here ask for advice from people that actually have lived in Mexico, and their comments or advices are from real experiences.
> Perhaps you may add to your comments that you have never lived in Mexico and your sources come from books, the web, etc. It might be very helpful for posters befor they pay any attention and follow advices.


This forum is open to comments from all people whatever their experience with Mexico: Ranging from those who are just thinking about what they might do in the future to those who have lived here for years. 

Everyone is free to comment. It is the reader's job to keep in mind that, whatever the experience of the posters, the posts are still just one person's opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## coondawg

Safety tips for travel in Mexico | On The Road In Mexico
"What about the stories of kidnappings, roadside hijackings, crooked cops and the ever infamous bandidos? After 20 years of exploring all 31 states in Mexico via bus, car, train and RV, we would be lying if we said that there wasn’t anything to be concerned about. After all, in Mexico the average yearly wage of the Mexican would not even make the first down payment not to mention the worth of the cameras, computers, stereos and other equipment that is contained in the average mobile house. When you drive across the border, no matter how modest your motor home is, it is ostentatious in the Mexican environment and it stands out, sending a signal to all who see it, that you are wealthy".


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## GARYJ65

coondawg said:


> Safety tips for travel in Mexico | On The Road In Mexico "What about the stories of kidnappings, roadside hijackings, crooked cops and the ever infamous bandidos? After 20 years of exploring all 31 states in Mexico via bus, car, train and RV, we would be lying if we said that there wasn’t anything to be concerned about. After all, in Mexico the average yearly wage of the Mexican would not even make the first down payment not to mention the worth of the cameras, computers, stereos and other equipment that is contained in the average mobile house. When you drive across the border, no matter how modest your motor home is, it is ostentatious in the Mexican environment and it stands out, sending a signal to all who see it, that you are wealthy".


Wealthy for driving an RV?

And you are right, the average salary of the average Mexican may not be much, but that does not make the average American with an average salary a wealthy person


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I think posters here ask for advice from people that actually have lived in Mexico, and their comments or advices are from real experiences.
> Perhaps you may add to your comments that you have never lived in Mexico and your sources come from books, the web, etc. It might be very helpful for posters befor they pay any attention and follow advices.


Since my reply to you was deleted I'll just point out that the poster was asking for info about RVing in Mexico, not living in Mexico. You gave very limited info, sorry if I hit a nerve giving him resources where he could find out more. RVers in Mexico, most anyways, are very aware of the info I posted, and it was exactly what he needed. And in case you missed my previous post, I have lived in Mexico, albeit briefly. And please Mr. Moderator this is one of a number of posts where he has questioned my right to post here. If my responses are deleted then I think his should be also. Otherwise thank you for your response to his post.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Since my reply to you was deleted I'll just point out that the poster was asking for info about RVing in Mexico, not living in Mexico. You gave very limited info, sorry if I hit a nerve giving him resources where he could find out more. RVers in Mexico, most anyways, are very aware of the info I posted, and it was exactly what he needed. And in case you missed my previous post, I have lived in Mexico, albeit briefly. And please Mr. Moderator this is one of a number of posts where he has questioned my right to post here. If my responses are deleted then I think his should be also. Otherwise thank you for your response to his post.


I am not questioning your right to post, I am questioning the contents of your posts.
I think it should be useful for everyone to know that you get that information from the web or some books, and you have lived in Mexico like 11 days.
Since I am not being rude or violent, I don't appreciate my comments to be deleted


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## Longford

GARYJ65 said:


> Wealthy for driving an RV?
> 
> And you are right, the average salary of the average Mexican may not be much, but that does not make the average American with an average salary a wealthy person


A foreign tourist driving a 32' or 40' bus-sized motorhome with air-conditioning and satellite dish affixed to the roof and towing a late-model vehicle behind as it passes through relatively rural / agricultural areas of Mexico where many residents may not own a car or truck ... will, I'll agree, be looked upon as "wealthy" by local residents. By my own personal standards ... I consider such people in the USA, when I see them/their vehicles as persons who are likely to be wealthy. It's a matter of perception. Not always a correct perception of the status of someone who owns such a motorhome, but a perception by some none the less.


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## GARYJ65

Longford said:


> A foreign tourist driving a 32' or 40' bus-sized motorhome with air-conditioning and satellite dish affixed to the roof and towing a late-model vehicle behind as it passes through relatively rural / agricultural areas of Mexico where many residents may not own a car or truck ... will, I'll agree, be looked upon as "wealthy" by local residents. By my own personal standards ... I consider such people in the USA, when I see them/their vehicles as persons who are likely to be wealthy. It's a matter of perception. Not always a correct perception of the status of someone who owns such a motorhome, but a perception by some none the less.


I agree with you; it's a matter of perception


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## Howler

Lots of good replies back & forth. I've never had a problem with the police in the US; but like dealing with the policia in Mexico - I've always approached them & dealt with respect & appreciation for the good that they do & ensure. In Mexico, I don't always know if the officer is trying (or going to try) to take advantage of me some way - but the approach (or response) can make a big difference in how they treat me... the idea is to make the feel appreciated & helpful. Yes, I've had only a couple of mordida incidents but in such cases it was a matter of agreeing rapidly, and making the meeting as short as possible.

My original premise with this thread was to see if anyone else had read the book, and to check their opinion on it. It was very brutal, and sounded quite random but purposeful about who was targeted outside of the typical "bad guys" & carteleros. To be honest, it doesn't sound like much has changed (at least on the surface), for those that go about their business in a non-flashy manner - and NOT acting like a typical tourist.


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## Howler

GARYJ65 said:


> Should you have tons of questions, I have the same amount of answers and would be happy to share and if possible, be of assistance to you,
> Saludos!


And saludos to you too, Gary!!

Thanks for the offer of help - I will be asking a lot of questions in the near future as we get ready to establish our retirement homestead down there - hopefully in Taxco or Veracruz. Other items on my list I'll need to research out have to have to do with moving goods down there, current vehicle & immigration laws, etc. In addition to wanting to establish a permanent resident status for myself - my wife wants to recover her native Mexican citizenship that she had to give up in favor of US citizenship because of my military career.

Some factors in our favor include her native status, we got married in DF and our first child was born down there, too. Still, you know how the bureaucratic process goes...! I want to see how much I can get started ahead of time through the local Mexican consulate here.


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## Howler

About RVing down there & the comments made by VanTexan & GaryJ65: I appreciate the input from everybody - but, yes, my purpose for checking the forum here is to hear from those actually down there living the life or that have had the experience(s) that I'm considering. In spite of my own experiences, travels & even having lived there before, like here in the US, things change with the economy, attitudes & politics. I know about & also check the resources available on the internet - but sometimes it can be woefully out of date, subjective or sometimes misguided. But there is still good information available if you dig it out. The best advice, though, is from those actually doing what you want to do - from where you want to do it.

About RVs in general, someone said something about "perception" - and that was my point about taking an RV down there (small or large). I did take a pick-up with a self-contained camper down there in '92 for 3 weeks. We had a blast - and so did all of our relatives & friends that we visited & that rode around with us. Even though it was obvious that it was not "top of the line" or even "immaculate" - it was functional and more than most of them would ever have or had seen up close. It was incredible how much I was offered on several occasions for it, but I didn't know how that would complicate our exit from the country so I didn't risk the idea of selling it.

At this point, I feel that the idea is more impractical - and too "in your face" - to attempt taking an RV down there. The way I've been thinking about it is to sell our home, get an RV for a "mobile base" here in the US for a couple or three years - and park it or put it in storage when the bug hits us to go to Mexico for a few weeks / months. When we've seen all the places & people we've wanted - then we sell it. By then, I hope we will have decided on either buying or building a small place for ourselves in Mexico. Whatever profit we make on selling the RV can be either put into the bank, another (smaller) place in the US, or to finish our place in Mexico.

Anyone done anything similar?


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## citlali

THis week a small group of tourists were attacked and robbed near Agua Azul. Four of them were hurt. I do not know if it made the news but I met them the day before at a friend of mine who sell artesania. They were with a guide in a little van. They were Mexicans with lots of jewelery, mostly diaments rings...someone must have seen those rings and watches ...The guide was not hurt and she is the one who told us about the incident so you do not have to be in a RV to get assaulted..


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> THis week a small group of tourists were attacked and robbed near Agua Azul. Four of them were hurt. I do not know if it made the news but I met them the day before at a friend of mine who sell artesania. They were with a guide in a little van. They were Mexicans with lots of jewelery, mostly diaments rings...someone must have seen those rings and watches ...The guide was not hurt and she is the one who told us about the incident so you do not have to be in a RV to get assaulted..


Last week I went on an INAH guided tour of an area of the Centro Histórico of Mexico City near the Zócalo. We were advised not to bring with us any valuable objects, which would certainly include diamond jewelry and fancy watches. What were these idiot Mexicans thinking when venturing into the Chiapas countryside flaunting their expensive trinkets? I'm surprised that the guide didn't tell them to put them in a safe place while they were, so to speak, in her care.


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## Rwrobb

*Police there to Help*



Howler said:


> Lots of good replies back & forth. I've never had a problem with the police in the US; but like dealing with the policia in Mexico - I've always approached them & dealt with respect & appreciation for the good that they do & ensure. In Mexico, I don't always know if the officer is trying (or going to try) to take advantage of me some way - but the approach (or response) can make a big difference in how they treat me... the idea is to make the feel appreciated & helpful. Yes, I've had only a couple of mordida incidents but in such cases it was a matter of agreeing rapidly, and making the meeting as short as possible.
> 
> My original premise with this thread was to see if anyone else had read the book, and to check their opinion on it. It was very brutal, and sounded quite random but purposeful about who was targeted outside of the typical "bad guys" & carteleros. To be honest, it doesn't sound like much has changed (at least on the surface), for those that go about their business in a non-flashy manner - and NOT acting like a typical tourist.


The police in Canada are here to help you but we are having similar incidents as in the states. In Acapulco I would never approach the local police. The feds took over for a while and things were much better more the majority. After paid leave the local police are slowly being put back in place. Everybody I,ve talked to liked it better when the feds were in control. Especially for traffic stops and bribes.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> Last week I went on an INAH guided tour of an area of the Centro Histórico of Mexico City near the Zócalo. We were advised not to bring with us any valuable objects, which would certainly include diamond jewelry and fancy watches. What were these idiot Mexicans thinking when venturing into the Chiapas countryside flaunting their expensive trinkets? I'm surprised that the guide didn't tell them to put them in a safe place while they were, so to speak, in her care.


It is a matter of common sense, if I wear jewelry and if I am a show off, I will get mugged every where in the world


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I am not questioning your right to post, I am questioning the contents of your posts.
> I think it should be useful for everyone to know that you get that information from the web or some books, and you have lived in Mexico like 11 days.
> Since I am not being rude or violent, I don't appreciate my comments to be deleted


The content? It's obvious that you aren't aware of RVing in Mexico but you chose to suggest very little is available to RVers there. Is that ok because you live in Mexico? If my statements are accurate and intended to help someone then what's the problem? The problem is you jumping on my posts and saying I never lived in Mexico(so how could I possibly know anything?).


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## Isla Verde

No personal squabbling on the open forum, or more posts will be deleted.


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## Howler

Isla Verde said:


> Last week I went on an INAH guided tour of an area of the Centro Histórico of Mexico City near the Zócalo. We were advised not to bring with us any valuable objects, which would certainly include diamond jewelry and fancy watches. What were these idiot Mexicans thinking when venturing into the Chiapas countryside flaunting their expensive trinkets? I'm surprised that the guide didn't tell them to put them in a safe place while they were, so to speak, in her care.
> 
> 
> Isla Verde said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week I went on an INAH guided tour of an area of the Centro Histórico of Mexico City near the Zócalo. We were advised not to bring with us any valuable objects, which would certainly include diamond jewelry and fancy watches. What were these idiot Mexicans thinking when venturing into the Chiapas countryside flaunting their expensive trinkets? I'm surprised that the guide didn't tell them to put them in a safe place while they were, so to speak, in her care.
> 
> 
> GARYJ65 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a matter of common sense, if I wear jewelry and if I am a show off, I will get mugged every where in the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 Yes, that's confirmation of what we've been saying - and an argument for common sense, even among native Mexicans. It's interesting to observe how the oft-arrogance of the Mexican rich can also be their own undoing in their own country.


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## Howler

Isla Verde said:


> No personal squabbling on the open forum, or more posts will be deleted.


I'm with Isla Verde on this one... both of you gave helpful & even useful information to my query about RVing in Mexico.


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## Longford

Howler said:


> Yes, that's confirmation of what we've been saying - and an argument for common sense, even among native Mexicans. It's interesting to observe how the oft-arrogance of the Mexican rich can also be their own undoing in their own country.


"oft-arrogance"?

People should hide themselves or their possessions .. due to fear of attack by their countrymen? 

The area in Chiapas earlier referred to is well-known as an area where tourists/visitors are attacked with, some frequency. Sometimes by local residents, who justify their crimes because ... they're "disadvantaged." And sometimes by others who are simply petty criminals who are opportunists. I see no justification to criticize victims. Let's criticize the criminals. Maybe we should turn our attention to arrogant RV owners from north of the border, who flaunt their wealth when they're in Mexico. Rob and abuse them. Then let's hear the responses.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> . . .
> 
> People should hide themselves or their possessions .. due to fear of attack by their countrymen?
> 
> The area in Chiapas earlier referred to is well-known as an area where tourists/visitors are attacked with, some frequency. Sometimes by local residents, who justify their crimes because ... they're "disadvantaged." And sometimes by others who are simply petty criminals who are opportunists. I see no justification to criticize victims. Let's criticize the criminals. Maybe we should turn our attention to arrogant RV owners from north of the border, who flaunt their wealth when they're in Mexico. Rob and abuse them. Then let's hear the responses.


I disagree. If you're going off into the hinterlands where you know "things" can happen, it makes sense to leave your expensive baubles at home, or at least in the hotel safe. This goes for everyone, Mexicans, expats and foreign visitors.


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## Howler

Longford said:


> "oft-arrogance"?
> 
> People should hide themselves or their possessions .. due to fear of attack by their countrymen?
> 
> The area in Chiapas earlier referred to is well-known as an area where tourists/visitors are attacked with, some frequency. Sometimes by local residents, who justify their crimes because ... they're "disadvantaged." And sometimes by others who are simply petty criminals who are opportunists. I see no justification to criticize victims. Let's criticize the criminals. Maybe we should turn our attention to arrogant RV owners from north of the border, who flaunt their wealth when they're in Mexico. Rob and abuse them. Then let's hear the responses.


My comment was referring to the MEXICAN victims of the robberies mentioned who, obviously, disregarded what would have been common sense to US as foreigners - and to other native Mexicans that probably would not have had as much to lose to robberies in such a situation. The "oft-ignorance" I cited is what can be seen among those Native Mexicans that are extremely rich that generally don't feel beholden to anybody and seem immune to the struggles of their own fellow citizens. Mark my words: There are MANY like that, but not ALL are that way.


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## Longford

Howler said:


> The "oft-ignorance" I cited is what can be seen among those Native Mexicans that are extremely rich that generally don't feel beholden to anybody and seem immune to the struggles of their own fellow citizens. Mark my words:


Let it go.


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## Howler

Longford said:


> Let it go.


I'm cool with it. I wasn't sure if you understood what I meant by the term "oft-arrogance" or where I was coming from. No negative feelings or emotions attached, implied or inferred.



Howler


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## modeeper

As of the news in this past month looks like I live in the middle of it .. GDL. I'm at somewhere close to 30 years in country, never had an incident. Never even been robbed for anything worth over 5 bucks. IMO laws of probability rules the Universe; it could happen on Main Street in Moosehollow Manitoba. 

I read a stat the other day that claimed the chances of your being struck by lighting in the US is far greater than your being a victim of a violent crime in Mexico. Like those stories of GIs coming home from war zones and being run over and killed in crosswalks. 

I was at the border last week in Reynosa. I chatted, smoked and joked with the officials outside their office for over an hour. They had nothing to do, said the Gringos fear the crossing to the extent they are either staying home or going elsewhere. Fine with me. It's rare I meet a ****** who's worth a hello. 

Worse for me than the crime rate is dealing with how we're viewed and treated as wealthy suckers who'd fall for any of last century's scams. It's insulting. 

The family rules! Friendships, IMO, are all based in either the naco complex (wanting to be seen with gringos), or some setup you don't know about yet.


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## TundraGreen

modeeper said:


> ... Fine with me. It's rare I meet a ****** who's worth a hello.
> ...


So how about you? Are you worth a hello?


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## modeeper

No, I'd just try to scam you. Say, do you happen to be a size 9 in near-new, tasseled black and white oxfords? How you fixed for socks and briefs?


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## TundraGreen

modeeper said:


> No, I'd just try to scam you. Say, do you happen to be a size 9 in near-new, tasseled black and white oxfords? How you fixed for socks and briefs?


What part of Gdl do you live in. I don't know any estadounidenses. You sound obnoxious enough to be interesting.


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## modeeper

I'm West 25K. No other gringos here. I work with some foreigners in the city tho. No Americans among them. Yes, I'm salty and neurotic, earned that right.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Originally Posted by modeeper View Post
... Fine with me. It's rare I meet a ****** who's worth a hello. 
...


TundraGreen said:


> So how about you? Are you worth a hello?


Pray tell, modeeper, might we beseech you to take some time out from your magnificent existence to explain to we unworthies what you did to become that very rare ****** who IS worth a hello?


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## modeeper

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Originally Posted by modeeper View Post
> ... Fine with me. It's rare I meet a ****** who's worth a hello.
> ...
> 
> 
> Pray tell, modeeper, might we beseech you to take some time out from your magnificent existence to explain to we unworthies what you did to become that very rare ****** who IS worth a hello?


Don't quit your day job.


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## modeeper

Some good replies here. Thanks. 

One thing for sure, if I didn't like it here I wouldn't be here. Another thing for sure is when the day comes I'd be living in America again, it'll be when I'm fading into the sunset in some Vet's hospital.

I lived in GDL 20 years ago as well. It wasn't like this back then. Economics is a powerful force I guess. Must be sad to take your girl downtown for a stroll and see all the things you'll never own.

Generalizations can be a helpful tool IMO. If a scenario fits the model 51+% of the time it's best to assume it exists. 

My boss is a lovely middle-aged divorcee who owns and operates a language school chain having three locations, two of them in up-scale neighborhoods. I mean there you'll find proper folks who don't have barking dogs living on their roofs, don't litter, don't honk their horns (if honking horns bother you never go to Monterrey), walk their dogs in the park with a plastic cleanup bag in their hand. Wish I could afford to live there. Anyway, last week _she_ asked _me_ for a loan. I asked, how much? She answered, how much you got? She's got me working for 80P an hour and expects me to shell it out. How did she ever get the idea I was a rich ******? She generalized. 

A Mexican's perception of Gringos is founded in a mass of sources. Once all that collective fact-finding is within your enculturation it is stuck to you like honey. It's like the Self-Fulfilling-Prophecy .. once a situation is defined as real, it becomes real as a consequence. So as I generalize, they generalize right back. Crazy world. Someone ought to sell tickets. 

.


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## TurtleToo

modeeper said:


> Generalizations can be a helpful tool IMO.
> 
> .


Only for those capable of distinguishing them from over-generalizations.

.


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## TurtleToo

modeeper said:


> A Mexican's perception of Gringos is founded in a mass of sources. Once all that collective fact-finding is within your enculturation it is stuck to you like honey. It's like the Self-Fulfilling-Prophecy .. once a situation is defined as real, it becomes real as a consequence. So as I generalize, they generalize right back. Crazy world. Someone ought to sell tickets.
> 
> .


Somehow I missed the explanation of why this poster's generalizations are accurate while his boss's generalization are clearly wrong. Perhaps it's all that "enculturation" stuck to him "like honey" and leading to self-fulfilling prophecies? 

.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> What part of Gdl do you live in. I don't know any estadounidenses. You sound obnoxious enough to be interesting.


Interesting comment, TG. I've never found obnoxious people to be interesting, except to themselves, of course!


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## Howler

Wow! - a lot of interesting & colorful comments and characters weighing in. I appreciate all the help & encouragement with my plans - and I feel even better about the idea we've always had about living down there on a permanent basis for our retirement. 

Unless there is anything that hasn't been covered or answered (ie. Anyone ever read that book?), I think we've gotten everything out of this thread that was intended. Thanks, again!!


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## modeeper

Now that's funny! Go back and read it again now, go on ....


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## cuerna1

modeeper said:


> Now that's funny! Go back and read it again now, go on ....


When you were younger did you ever hear the expression 'dig yourself' (Bob Dylan) ? If not - google it (images).


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## TravelLover

GARYJ65 said:


> Indeed, most Mexican policemen are corrupt, while others aren't
> In different proportion, but it happens everywhere don't you agree?
> Or, where you come from, are most policemen saints?
> I can tell you quite a few stories of mine


Not saying the cops in the USA are perfect but I don't know of any that would charge someone $328USD for a ride home!

But at least they were nice enough not to charge extra for the ride to the ATM!


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## baja Dean

the big RV in baja would not be a target. Lots of them here. But still per the previously linked *tips for travel in Mexico | On The Road In Mexico*, i have to say that was well written. I have traveled by RV, truck, motorcycle. I have owned property for 16 years. Full time for 5 or six who keeps track. 

Have a friend whose brother in law was murdered in Northern baja camping remotely for his brand new ram truck when they first came out about 1998. Those were a hot commodity. again eye candy in a higher risk area.

Even in baja sur do not park in remote beaches as tempting as it is. Have a friend that he and wife and teenage daughter had the fright night from hell near Todos Santos last year. Father Mother was beaten and mother severely. Guy came back when they gave him money after first break in he was not happy with how little he got. They were just over visiting that beach area, they have property in my area but stay in our town still in a populated campground.

As far as corruption by baja sur police it is not threatening type at all. I just no comprenday them to death and they always leave me alone. I really do not speak spanish. 

For a few years I would just invite them to my casa (30 miles away) to have a drink with me and believe it or not they would accept and I had new friends. (note, the cost of the beer is more than I would have paid in "fines" but it was well worth it.) Several even brought their families out to visit. So when I would get pulled over in LaPaz it was my friend just saying hi to me. again I speak no spanish but we can always say hi and shake hands and I ask when they come to mi casa. Making sure they knew it was an open invitation. 

One time I took my mother and aunt to LaPaz to stay in a hotel for some big city life. And I was double parked and all the sudden all these police vehicles were turning on lights and sirens and my Mother and aunt were freaking out. I told them these are my friends and my Mother did not believe me, till I was shaking hands telling them this was my mother, and the police were guarding my double parked vehicle, and top it off the police were carrying in my Mother and aunts luggage for them. 

Yes this is a small city police where the severe corruption has not entered the picture to this day. I do fear we will be like some other areas soon as the Cartel have finally made a entrance to our area, they only kill one another but they do end up undermining the police with their lead or gold mindset IMHO. And even just a few weeks ago on a island not far from LaPaz there was a strong arm robbery of many tourists. 

So in just 2 years it appears to me we have gone from one of the safest north american cities to a howard street in chicago. I use to live about 6 blocks from howard street in Chicago in Evanston, Howard street at night was a drug war zone. I avoided it s much as possible at night. 

I have traveled on the mainland with an older truck and a lot of miles via a older 1984 goldwing motorcycle. I felt most secure on the motorcycle, never even got pulled over on the motorcycle, but many times with the truck. still would not pay a centavo.

I am somewhat street smart from my experiences and would only take a expensive RV into the mainland in a caravan. No problem for the baja but again just stay in RV parks or campgrounds.


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## GARYJ65

TravelLover said:


> Not saying the cops in the USA are perfect but I don't know of any that would charge someone $328USD for a ride home! But at least they were nice enough not to charge extra for the ride to the ATM!


I don't know about the $328 USD, but some US cops are very very very corrupt and bad people


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I don't know about the $328 USD, but some US cops are very very very corrupt and bad people


Want a corrupt cop? Don't pay him much and give him a gun. That's why on average most U.S. cops aren't corrupt because they're treated as well paid professionals. There's always exceptions, but it's the exception, not the norm.


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## Howler

baja Dean said:


> I am somewhat street smart from my experiences and would only take a expensive RV into the mainland in a caravan. No problem for the baja but again just stay in RV parks or campgrounds.


Thanks for your input & experience in this matter. I really can identify with your treatment of the local police - a little really does go a long way. One thing I love about Taxco is that the local police & transito REALLY work at their jobs to maintain traffic flow & order. I've always made it practice to bring them a Coke or their preference for beverage when they allow me to park in a "doubtful" situation - and their kindness in return never fails when I run into them again later, whether I need another parking spot or not. The drinks cost a lot less than in the states, and Oxxo usually has a special going on. The last several times as we've left Taxco (driving), I've stocked up on large Cokes to give to each police/transito as I pass them on the street on the way out of town. They now remember us when we've come back to town the past couple of years! Hell, I just enjoy their reactions at feeling appreciated for the job they do!!


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## modeeper

vantexan said:


> Want a corrupt cop? Don't pay him much and give him a gun. That's why on average most U.S. cops aren't corrupt because they're treated as well paid professionals. There's always exceptions, but it's the exception, not the norm.


Sorry, I don't get it. Guns don't come cheap. Now if I were about to go to prison I'd find a way to come up with a gun. 

In my country being a cop is a career, with retirement and all the perks .. not here.

The mordida is a cultural thing. Read up on the colonization of Mexico if you want to know more. Basically The Spanish sent government officials of all types, tax collectors, magistrates and so on. They weren't paid, they had to make their way on their own. Don't have to tell you what avenue they took. 

Cops here probably see the person who won't play the game is an *ss hole. We're expected to help them out.

The phenomena of the honest cop is a mystery to me. Haven't a clue, unless he's a Bible person who doesn't care if he works for a low wage .. like Jesus.

.


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## Blast

> The phenomena of the honest cop is a mystery to me. Haven't a clue, unless he's a Bible person who doesn't care if he works for a low wage .. like Jesus.


Deeper, you crack me up, you're too funny, got to love your imagination, you should write songs or poetry or something. As much as I respect your thoughts, I have to think you are putting us on quite a bit of the time. Remember " The time we use to be Angry, unhappy or whatever, is time we don't get to use being happy, satisfied, fulfilled, grateful" taken slightly out of text, Love you, Brother


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## modeeper

Toluca sounds nice. Any live Blues there?


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## Blast

I'll betcha, I'll be in Zapopan before you're in Toluca, this is just a temporary stop for me to check in on an old friend and get myself sorted.


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## vantexan

modeeper said:


> Sorry, I don't get it. Guns don't come cheap. Now if I were about to go to prison I'd find a way to come up with a gun.
> 
> In my country being a cop is a career, with retirement and all the perks .. not here.
> 
> The mordida is a cultural thing. Read up on the colonization of Mexico if you want to know more. Basically The Spanish sent government officials of all types, tax collectors, magistrates and so on. They weren't paid, they had to make their way on their own. Don't have to tell you what avenue they took.
> 
> Cops here probably see the person who won't play the game is an *ss hole. We're expected to help them out.
> 
> The phenomena of the honest cop is a mystery to me. Haven't a clue, unless he's a Bible person who doesn't care if he works for a low wage .. like Jesus.
> 
> .


Aren't we saying the same thing?


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## modeeper

sorry


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## Mexico Bound

Am wondering how much a decent fairly roomy one bedroom apartment costs per month in Tequis Queretaro? Thanks


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