# Health insurance and subsistence



## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

Hello

I am an EU citizen (British) and my husband is from India. We have moved to Leipzig (a month ago) and hit a snag when my husband applied for his residence card. The Auslanderboerde have "demanded" I give them a valid employment contract for myself. Interestingly, it wasn't on the printed list of documents required, they wrote that on by hand! I do have sufficent finances to support my self and (although I don't technically need to) have registered as a job seeker. How do I "insist" they process our application based on self sufficiency if they continue to demand an employment contract? Does anyone know the exact amount required for self sufficeiency? Currently I have the money in a UK bank account, should I transfer it to a German one?

Secondly, we need health insurance but only short term. My husband has a job offer (immediate start) and will be getting insurance through that so we need one we can cancel after a month or two, but good enough to satisfy the authorities. Does anyone have any advice on that? I've scoured the internet but ended up more confused! 

Also, is it true my husband can't work until this is sorted out? I thought he had the same "rights" as me in the first three months and could work freely?

Any help/advice approeciated! Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Not sure how Germany handles this, but in France and several other EU countries the requirement is that the EU national of the couple must be able to show that they are "established" in the country before the non-EU spouse can obtain a residence permit. In France, it normally means that either the EU spouse is working, is retired and has a pension or is a student. 

If you're living off savings, you may want to produce bank statements - and it might be even better if you could arrange to have the interest or other income from the account(s) transferred to a German account on a regular basis (say, monthly or quarterly). If the earnings from the account are adequate to support you, it might be enough to convince them that you are established in Germany.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Not sure how Germany handles this, but in France and several other EU countries the requirement is that the EU national of the couple must be able to show that they are "established" in the country before the non-EU spouse can obtain a residence permit. In France, it normally means that either the EU spouse is working, is retired and has a pension or is a student. 

If you're living off savings, you may want to produce bank statements - and it might be even better if you could arrange to have the interest or other income from the account(s) transferred to a German account on a regular basis (say, monthly or quarterly). If the earnings from the account are adequate to support you, it might be enough to convince them that you are established in Germany.
Cheers,
Bev


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> Hello
> 
> I am an EU citizen (British) and my husband is from India. We have moved to Leipzig (a month ago) and hit a snag when my husband applied for his residence card. The Auslanderboerde have "demanded" I give them a valid employment contract for myself. Interestingly, it wasn't on the printed list of documents required, they wrote that on by hand! I do have sufficent finances to support my self and (although I don't technically need to) have registered as a job seeker. How do I "insist" they process our application based on self sufficiency if they continue to demand an employment contract? Does anyone know the exact amount required for self sufficeiency? Currently I have the money in a UK bank account, should I transfer it to a German one?
> 
> ...


As per EU law you don't have to show employment or health insurance within 90 days of your arrival. (You can contact SOLVIT for help but don't expect them to be quick!)

Lately (last two years), I have heard that German authorities simply keep the application until 90 days have passed and then contact the applicant to ask for further documents: proof of health insurance, adequate accommodation, proof that EU spouse is exercising treaty rights, etc.

Self-sufficiency is tricky, since EU law does not stipulate what this means.

I am not sure how alien departments calculate this or whether this is even done the same way nationwide.

I heard of cases in which residence cards were refused because the EU spouse did not have a job in Germany and the savings did not equal the minimum annual subsistence level x 5 (Residence Card is valid for 5 years, so they wanted to see enough money to sustain the couple without public funds for the entire time).

In 2015, the minimum subsistence level for a couple was €16944/annum. I don't know whether the alien department uses this figure, as it does not take into account regional differences in rent, etc.

Attitudes towards migration in general are getting harsher, especially in that part of Germany.

Regarding health insurance, contact insurance providers directly (I'd stay away from AOK). Most probably you won't have to cancel once your husband starts working - just inform the insurance provider/HR and they will sort it.


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

i do know the subsistence level is "meant" to be quite low. EU law does state something along the lines of it should match the threshold a citizen of that country would hit to claim benefits. Or the minimum state benefit amount. I've been given a guide figure of 700 euros a month and they should only be assessing me on that, not doubling it as we're a couple, and it should cover 2 years not 5. It seems to me the authorities are being very creative! I showed a German lawywer my bank statement and he said it should easily cover it. He's going to write to them, which of course is costing us more money! But as I say, the main issue is getting our rights recognised. I'm not sure where to turn on that. I mean they may or may not take any notice of the lawyers letter but if not, then what? I've emailed places online like the state authority where we are but I either get no reply or people say they're not the right people to help.


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

if they are saying that me producing a work contract would "satisfy" them that I won't need to rely on public funds, why is my husbands work contract not enough to satisfy them that HE won't need to rely on public funds?? Therefore why should I need to show I can sustain us both? 

He will be earning a good wage, enough for both of us. And ok I can see why me just living off his wages would not be "exercising treaty rights" I understand that. But surely his wage should be taken into account with regards to our rent payments etc? So my savings should be ample to show that there will not be any financial issues.

Yes they could say "oh but he might lose his job" but that can happen to any of us! And why can't he work yet? I still don't understand that.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> i do know the subsistence level is "meant" to be quite low. EU law does state something along the lines of it should match the threshold a citizen of that country would hit to claim benefits. Or the minimum state benefit amount. I've been given a guide figure of 700 euros a month and they should only be assessing me on that, not doubling it as we're a couple, and it should cover 2 years not 5. It seems to me the authorities are being very creative! I showed a German lawywer my bank statement and he said it should easily cover it. He's going to write to them, which of course is costing us more money! But as I say, the main issue is getting our rights recognised. I'm not sure where to turn on that. I mean they may or may not take any notice of the lawyers letter but if not, then what? I've emailed places online like the state authority where we are but I either get no reply or people say they're not the right people to help.


Interesting - who has given you this guide figure?

The minimum subsistence level I stated is about what a German couple who are both not working might get in benefits, it may be less or more depending on regional rent limits, etc.

Contact SOLVIT:

EuropÃ¤ische Dienstleistungsrichtlinie | BehÃ¶rdenwegweiser | BÃ¼rgerservice | Landkreis Leipzig

or here:

Beschwerden

Or simply go to the Ausländerbehörde again and insist on them taking your application. A different case worker may just do that without any fuss.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> if they are saying that me producing a work contract would "satisfy" them that I won't need to rely on public funds, why is my husbands work contract not enough to satisfy them that HE won't need to rely on public funds?? Therefore why should I need to show I can sustain us both?
> 
> He will be earning a good wage, enough for both of us. And ok I can see why me just living off his wages would not be "exercising treaty rights" I understand that. But surely his wage should be taken into account with regards to our rent payments etc? So my savings should be ample to show that there will not be any financial issues.
> 
> Yes they could say "oh but he might lose his job" but that can happen to any of us! And why can't he work yet? I still don't understand that.


It's a bit of a complicated cycle.

Your husband's right to work is derived from you exercising treaty rights. If you only exercise treaty rights because you are self-sufficient through your husband's work...

Also, German authorities are just about as happy about EEA nationals bringing in non-EEA spouses via EU law as the UK. Add the pressure of the migrant crisis and the rise of far right xenophobic parties in the last regional elections to that and you get a pretty unwelcoming mix.


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

ALKB said:


> stormystar2016 said:
> 
> 
> > if they are saying that me producing a work contract would "satisfy" them that I won't need to rely on public funds, why is my husbands work contract not enough to satisfy them that HE won't need to rely on public funds?? Therefore why should I need to show I can sustain us both?
> ...


I see what you mean but my self sufficiany comes from my own savings in a bank account in my name only. It's not that I don't want to work in Germany, I do. I have some German language skills but wanted to improve my German to a level where I can get work in my professional field as to be honest, I'm a bit old to be on my feet waitressing all day or similar! That's why I registered at the job centre. But I do need maybe 6-12 months to bring my German up to scratch and find work. 

Thanks for the advice though, I will check out the links and do what you suggested.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> if they are saying that me producing a work contract would "satisfy" them that I won't need to rely on public funds, why is my husbands work contract not enough to satisfy them that HE won't need to rely on public funds?? Therefore why should I need to show I can sustain us both?


The work contract is not about sustaining one or both of you, it's about exercising treaty rights. If you work - even if it's just 16 hours a week - you are exercising treaty rights and then your situation (and your husband's) is iron clad under EU law. 

Only if you don't work, sustaining yourself without public funds comes into it.

You say you want to improve your German. As a full time student you would also be exercising treaty rights. This might be the way for you if you want to enroll in intensive classes anyhow. Just be careful that the course satisfies the requirements of being full time.


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

I think the issue with intensive courses is that they'd satisfy the 16+ hours per week, but then are only a few weeks long, which I'm not sure would be accepted?


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> I think the issue with intensive courses is that they'd satisfy the 16+ hours per week, but then are only a few weeks long, which I'm not sure would be accepted?


That depends on the provider.

I don't think a Volkshochschulkurs would work. There are language courses from a few weeks to a year or longer offered by private language schools that satisfy the requirements for getting a student visa, those should be okay, I think.


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## SafariMama (Jun 7, 2016)

I'm not sure, but you could ask the embassy.


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

Ok please can anybody give me any actual names of insurers for our health insurance. I have scoured the internet and its just all so confusing. Most websites are in German. I don't know who the Auslanderbeorde will accept. As we're not working yet I don't know which companies would accept us! (some seem to be for employed or students only). Some I have emailed and they just haven't emailed back. To be honest I'm getting a bit close to tears! It's just so complicated


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> Ok please can anybody give me any actual names of insurers for our health insurance. I have scoured the internet and its just all so confusing. Most websites are in German. I don't know who the Auslanderbeorde will accept. As we're not working yet I don't know which companies would accept us! (some seem to be for employed or students only). Some I have emailed and they just haven't emailed back. To be honest I'm getting a bit close to tears! It's just so complicated


The Ausländerbehörde will accept any gesetzliche Krankenkasse:

https://www.krankenkassen.de/gesetzliche-krankenkassen/krankenkassen-liste/

Personally, I have good experiences with Techniker Krankenkasse and SBK (Siemens Betriebskrankenkasse).


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

Thank you. Sorry, I think all the stress is getting to me! I've just been worried about potentially making an expesive mistake!


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

stormystar2016 said:


> Thank you. Sorry, I think all the stress is getting to me! I've just been worried about potentially making an expesive mistake!


International relationships are not easy. My husband is originally from Pakistan. Whenever I think we are finally over all the hurdles that life can possibly throw at us, some cultural thing rears its head and kicks me in the teeth (aka my family-in-law).


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## stormystar2016 (Jan 21, 2016)

ALKB said:


> International relationships are not easy. My husband is originally from Pakistan. Whenever I think we are finally over all the hurdles that life can possibly throw at us, some cultural thing rears its head and kicks me in the teeth (aka my family-in-law).


Yep, Your certainly right!


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