# Moving to Dubai (QS)



## Ollstar (Oct 7, 2008)

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. 

I know my questions have probably been asked a million times by a million different people, so sorry for boring you!

I am moving to Dubai in Feb next year as a post contract intermediate QS and have a few questions. I have done tons of research on the web and have grasped most the important things such as laws and how to be respectful in the country you are moving too but these questions are some I couldn't find answers too.

So here goes;

I am moving out in Feb, with my girlfriend joining me when she takes a year or 2 out from uni in May. What is the best approach for her to get a job. It will only be admin/pa work as that is her experience.
My agency said she would easily find this kind of work when she is out here, but I am a little scepticle with agencies and feel they will prob tell me anything to get me here (with their bonus!) so any advise would be great.

Where would be the best place to live. I like the look of the marina and would be looking at a furnished studio or 1 bedroom apartment (up to 100,000 AED budget). We love going out so any suggestions where there is a good nightlife in close proximety would be ideal! 

Anyone who works within construction - what hours/days are worked as Q.S? I have read about 6 day weeks and sites open 24 hrs - does this apply to management staff? Are you site based like in the UK or is it all run from a head office? Any other tips and advice regarding working within construction would be good.

I will probably have more questions but this is enough to be going on with!

Thanks,


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to the forum.
> 
> ...


Hi and welcome to the forum,

Maz25 is a QS so she'll be more than able to answer QS specific questions. As for your personal situation have a read of this as it addresses issues that will affect your situation.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...g-dubai-nov-helpful-info-required-please.html

Best place to live depends on where you will be working and how long you want to commute. The Marina and JBR is where all the 'hip' kids hang out but with the price of taxis being fairly cheap or if you have your own wheels you'll get more 'bang for you buck' living further out. The nightlife in JBR is still accessible even if you chose to live all the way out in Sharjah. MazdaRX8 comes out all the time 

Also you're more than welcome when you come over to attend some of the forum social functions where you will be able to meet new people and get a taste of the nightlife from people who have been here a while. Details are usually posted on the forum and there is at least one a month.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to the forum.
> 
> ...


Hope this helps!


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## Ollstar (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks for pointing me to that thread it was useful info!

Maz25 - I am expecting hard work, lets face it in construction you are expected to work longer than your contracted hours no matter which country your in! Lunch Breaks???? Lol!

What are the site facilities like for us humble contractors then? The cabins turn into microwaves on site during the 2 week summer in the UK so I assume its a different system in dubai?

I guess I will just have to choose my company wisely!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> Thanks for pointing me to that thread it was useful info!
> 
> Maz25 - I am expecting hard work, lets face it in construction you are expected to work longer than your contracted hours no matter which country your in! Lunch Breaks???? Lol!
> 
> I guess I will just have to choose my company wisely!


Yes, that's something else. I tend to eat in the office and my luchbreak is as long as it takes me to eat a sandwich and look through the paper (the first 3 pages!lol!). My longest lunch break so far has been 20 mins!!! In regards to today, haven't had lunch yet! Not sure even have time!

Edit: Just so you know, it does say 1 hour in my contract but the reality tends to be quite different!


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## Ollstar (Oct 7, 2008)

Yeh thats true everywhere!

Do you like working in construction over there then? Is it much different to your original country? I think the hardest thing will be working with different currency but I'm sure it only takes a couple of weeks to adjust. 

I am looking forward to it tho as the UK is going down the toilet at the moment with regards to this reccesion. Most major residential schemes have been pulled and the future doesn't look good. I am looking out my cabin window to howling wind and sideways rain so the climate change will be nice!

You said before that my budget would struggle to find a place in the marina in Feb. Why is this? I thought that with a lot of resie projects finishing soon there is going to be a lot on the market around this time?


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> Yeh thats true everywhere!
> 
> Do you like working in construction over there then? Is it much different to your original country? I think the hardest thing will be working with different currency but I'm sure it only takes a couple of weeks to adjust.
> 
> ...


I enjoy my work very much! The only thing I find is that as a woman, it doesn't always go down too well with the guys. I met someone on site today and he made it pretty clear that he didn't appreciate taking orders from a woman. I also made it pretty clear that I give the orders and he will listen regardless!!

The worst thing is not so much the currency. Whilst UK is all about deadlines, no one seems to be in any hurry here and you have to be on their case all the time to get even the simplest of things done!! I've also always used JCT and I now have to adjust to FIDIC!! Getting there though, slowly but surely!!

One of the reasons that I left the Uk was the rather imminent recession. Considering that I had moved there and decided to stay for my career, I didn't really see why I should stick around when things started to go downhill. It will certainly help to have a few high value projects on your CV when you decide to go back!

Yes, there are a lot of new properties coming on the market but the market is also controlled by investors. If you can afford to buy a few floors at once, then you can also afford to leave all those apartments empty. That way, prices stay quite high and there is a nice profit at the end when they decide to sell. Dubai is all about expats with money and the market is designed for the same!


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> Yeh thats true everywhere!
> 
> Do you like working in construction over there then? Is it much different to your original country? I think the hardest thing will be working with different currency but I'm sure it only takes a couple of weeks to adjust.
> 
> ...


Now my analysis may be wrong (and I'm sure to be corrected if I am) but...

Property developments are being completed all the time yes, but a lot of the building owners are holding on to them empty because the property value is increasing daily above the equivalent rental income so they are winning with virtually no effort. It's that artificially induced lack of availability that is driving up rental income on the properties that are being let as demand is quite high. In JBR there are whole buildings finished but totally empty.

Some investors have bought property for other reasons for example as investments with no appetite for the potential increase in revenue from renting (criminals do this to launder money), they just want hassle free growth from the rise in property based on the market perception demand is outweighing supply. They then sell up, make a profit and then properties saturate the market causing a potential crash in house prices and then Dubai joins the global credit crunch...

...maybe.

In short it's probably still going to be quite expensive in February and quite likely to be continue to rise for a good while after that...

...maybe


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> Now my analysis may be wrong (and I'm sure to be corrected if I am) but...
> 
> Property developments are being completed all the time yes, but a lot of the building owners are holding on to them empty because the property value is increasing daily above the equivalent rental income so they are winning with virtually no effort. It's that artificially induced lack of availability that is driving up rental income on the properties that are being let as demand is quite high. In JBR there are whole buildings finished but totally empty.
> 
> ...


True! The property market in Dubai is artificial, hence the reason why I would never put any money in it! An artifcial market can only sustain itself for so long and as you have rightly said, at some point it all comes crashing down! Unfortunately, it is always the hard working people who end up paying the price!


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## Genghis (Sep 5, 2008)

I've also always used JCT and I now have to adjust to FIDIC!! Getting there though, slowly but surely!!


Hope you dont mind me "thread-jacking" Maz.
I too am unfamiliar with FIDIC and have concerns in this regard. I bought a couple of books (FIDIC for Dummies) to brief myself before I arrive. Has this caused much of a problem?


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Genghis said:


> I've also always used JCT and I now have to adjust to FIDIC!! Getting there though, slowly but surely!!
> 
> 
> Hope you dont mind me "thread-jacking" Maz.
> I too am unfamiliar with FIDIC and have concerns in this regard. I bought a couple of books (FIDIC for Dummies) to brief myself before I arrive. Has this caused much of a problem?



My company kindly provided some books, which I neglected to read! I tend to read copies of the new contracts that we have going out! I've never really liked law and still have a very limited grasp of it, so probably not best placed to answer this question!


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## Ollstar (Oct 7, 2008)

The property thing seems a bit rubbish! Looks like a studio for me then on my budget! Nevermind, they look bigger than UK studios from looking at various floor plans.

I have only just mastered JCT so learning FIDIC is a drag. I think i will just leave as much of that to the CM!

Thanks for the advice - definately given me some extra things to think about!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> I have only just mastered JCT so learning FIDIC is a drag. I think i will just leave as much of that to the CM!
> QUOTE]
> 
> Same here but it's got to be done unfortunately!


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

Ollstar said:


> I have only just mastered JCT so learning FIDIC is a drag. I think i will just leave as much of that to the CM!





Maz25 said:


> Same here but it's got to be done unfortunately!


Just think of all the CPD days you'll both get...

FIDIC is actually a pretty useful contract to know, especially if you want to work on international projects.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> Just think of all the CPD days you'll both get...
> 
> FIDIC is actually a pretty useful contract to know, especially if you want to work on international projects.


True but I thought I had just got JCT sussed out for my APC and now I'm back to square one!!! Doesn't help that I hate law!! Oh well......


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

ouch my head hurts...................all this QS type talk on forms of contract.

Seriously, you will find many differences here from the UK construction ethos, especially the one we had last week at a meeting to discuss AED90 million worth of variations when the main contractor decided to say "just because we gave you an instruction to do the work, it doesn't mean we are going to pay you"


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## grandesigner (Oct 5, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> Just think of all the CPD days you'll both get...
> 
> FIDIC is actually a pretty useful contract to know, especially if you want to work on international projects.


Shame i missed this discussion while you are all still online. Any chance we can take this somewhere for a more in depth discussion. I start in a few weeks as a site architect. No JD. Stuck in a tin hut somewhere in the desert juggling contracts, six sigma(maybe) quality control and all the QS/CM they can throw on the SLA in the corner. And yes. I did actually try and Google FIDIC for DUMMIES. Well, you never know! Could do with a copy/breakdown before I arrive, for a bit of light reading at bedtime.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Apprently, there are training courses that are run here, just to help you get to grip with FIDIC. It costs a pretty penny though and I'm not sure that your boss will be feeling that generous - I have chosen not to ask mine.


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## Genghis (Sep 5, 2008)

grandesigner said:


> And yes. I did actually try and Google FIDIC for DUMMIES. Well, you never know! Could do with a copy/breakdown before I arrive, for a bit of light reading at bedtime.


I bought the book "FIDIC Users Guide - A practical guide to the red & yellow books" from Amazon (delivered in 3days but dont know about postage to UAE).
Its a pretty good and well written. You are more than welcome to borrow it when you arrive.


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## grandesigner (Oct 5, 2008)

Genghis said:


> I bought the book "FIDIC Users Guide - A practical guide to the red & yellow books" from Amazon (delivered in 3days but dont know about postage to UAE).
> Its a pretty good and well written. You are more than welcome to borrow it when you arrive.


Thanks very much. I'll take you up on that. The task is getting larger. In fact the more I read, the more confused I get. Not that the advice on here is contradictory, but the signals are getting mashed somewhere in the cerebral cortex. Untill I read the threads on leaving the family behind, it hadnt occured to me it was a problem. Not very empathetic of me. All this switching visas, driving licences, etc. And the realisation i should of held out for more cash. Still exciting, still desperate to get started.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

grandesigner said:


> Thanks very much. I'll take you up on that. The task is getting larger. In fact the more I read, the more confused I get. Not that the advice on here is contradictory, but the signals are getting mashed somewhere in the cerebral cortex. Untill I read the threads on leaving the family behind, it hadnt occured to me it was a problem. Not very empathetic of me. All this switching visas, driving licences, etc. And the realisation i should of held out for more cash. Still exciting, still desperate to get started.



I find that if I try to read law books, I get nowhere! If you get involved with drafting the contract and then enforcing the clauses as you go along, you tend to learn a lot more and have a much fuller appreciation of the contract T&Cs! I'm sure that we'll all get there in the end!


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## Genghis (Sep 5, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> I find that if I try to read law books, I get nowhere! If you get involved with drafting the contract and then enforcing the clauses as you go along, you tend to learn a lot more and have a much fuller appreciation of the contract T&Cs! I'm sure that we'll all get there in the end!


I agree that contract administration is the best education - particularly if you are on the receiving end!
But I do think it is essential to have a fundamental understanding in order to use that contract to your advantage or defend a position. I have simply read the contract and used guide books to explain anything that may be open to interpretation - those grey areas.


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

Am i the only one who actually enjoys contract law and adminstration? (yes, i'm masochistic in that way )
I've done civil engineering law/contract courses before and its pretty interesting how interpretation and application of the same T&Cs can vary, depending on the legal climate of the day. And don't get me started on case law...



> Seriously, you will find many differences here from the UK construction ethos, especially the one we had last week at a meeting to discuss AED90 million worth of variations when the main contractor decided to say "just because we gave you an instruction to do the work, it doesn't mean we are going to pay you"


This statement just made my day  (sorry ogri, don't mean to laugh at your predicament)
I guess partnering is still a foreign concept in Dubai. Is the consultant/contractor relationship pretty confrontational, like it was in UK years ago?


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