# good area to stay in 20-30mins from roppongi and a tax question...



## beyonder

hi there,

i will most likely be moving to Tokyo in a few weeks time and would like to check on a couple of things. my package is more like a local hire with relocation thrown in deal fyi. 
the job will be in the roppongi area but as i have a wife and young kid would not want to stay so close to it, noting higher costs for renting in that area as well...

1) What would be a good area(or ward/station) to live in thats 20-30mins by train to Roppongi?
Direct train to Roppongi. Not uber crowded would be good if it exists at all 
Are there areas with a healthy expat population? or with slightly more access to English speaking services? 
will probably be looking at a 2LDK, ideally around 70sqm and around 150-200k budget (hope the amount is reasonable)

2) i believe my company will sort out my taxes for me but i did want to have a sense on what the possible estimated tax charge may be for full year 2011. going by some round about numbers, does this look about right to anyone who can make sense of the Japanese individual income tax? 

(A) Annual Income = 20mn
Employment Income Deduction (Annual Income x 0.05 + 1.7mn Yen) = 2,700,000
Earned Salary Exemption	= 17,300,000

(B) Income after employment income deduction = 2,700,000
Exemptions (example for spouse and dependant its around there) = 380k+760k

Total taxable income	=	1,560,000
At 5% rate = 78,000

Total (2,700,000+78,000)	=	2,778,000

sound about right  any helps appreciated.

cheers, b


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## larabell

beyonder said:


> 1) What would be a good area(or ward/station) to live in thats 20-30mins by train to Roppongi?
> Direct train to Roppongi. Not uber crowded would be good if it exists at all


A tall order, for sure. Roppongi is on both the Hibiya and Oedo subway lines. On the south side of the Hibiya-sen are places like Naka-Meguro (still expensive but not like Roppongi). The Hibiya-sen follows the Toyoko line so stations just past Naka-Meguro are likely candidates. On the North side, consider Kita-senju. I've never spent any time there but it seems residential and is far enough out to not be ridiculously expensive. The Oedo line isn't likely to help much, as it loops around the city like the Yamanote-sen but, further out, you might look at the Nerima area (Nerima station and ward). From what I've seen, that seems to be a fairly nice area.



> Are there areas with a healthy expat population? or with slightly more access to English speaking services?


Naka-meguro seems to have a large number of ex-pats. Of course, there's Hiroo (which even has an international supermarket) but that's going to cost as much as Roppongi (being only one stop away, in fact).



> will probably be looking at a 2LDK, ideally around 70sqm and around 150-200k budget (hope the amount is reasonable)


That would sound reasonable if you get outside the city center. You might want to reconsider the direct connection requirement. Train transfers don't add much to overall commute time but they open up a whole range of possibilities. You could get a 2DK in your price range in my area (Nakano-shimbashi) but it would require one train change (about 20 mins total).

I'm not sure about the tax numbers without running the calculations but it sure looks like you've found the right basic formula.


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## beyonder

Hi Larabell, thanks so much for your helpful revert and looking through the forum, u have really been providing so much good information which is really kind of u.

Thanks for the initial suggestions, I will check out the Naka-Meguro area and stations near it. Noted on Kita-senju and Nerima areas too.



larabell said:


> That would sound reasonable if you get outside the city center. You might want to reconsider the direct connection requirement. Train transfers don't add much to overall commute time but they open up a whole range of possibilities. You could get a 2DK in your price range in my area (Nakano-shimbashi) but it would require one train change (about 20 mins total).


If I were to remove the direct connection requirement and looking at a 20mins journey time, are there other areas besides Nakano-shimbashi to consider? Is Nakano-shimbashi a nice area to stay in your opinion and what makes it so? 



larabell said:


> I'm not sure about the tax numbers without running the calculations but it sure looks like you've found the right basic formula.


Thanks. I understand that there are other taxes to consider over and above this as well. From residence tax and other municipal taxes? Not fully sure. If you could punch the numbers and see if its about right I would really appreciate it but if not, thanks for all the help provided thus far. 

Cheers, B


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## larabell

beyonder said:


> If I were to remove the direct connection requirement and looking at a 20mins journey time, are there other areas besides Nakano-shimbashi to consider?


Sure... Probably too many to mention and certainly more than I even know about.

There's a reasonably good subway/train map at:

Subway Map of Tokyo - JohoMaps

The big green circular line is the Yamanote-sen loop. If you want inexpensive digs, stay away from that line and, if possible, outside the loop. Two lines you can get to easily with a single transfer are the Marunouchi and Chiyoda lines. Both of those run out toward the West side of Tokyo and, once you get out of the Yamanote loop, there are any number of decent-looking neighborhoods that won't cost an arm and a leg (maybe just the leg ;-)...

The Chiyoda line connects with the (private) Odakyu line and there are lots of nice neighborhoods out that way like Shimo-kitazawa.

In general, I'd recommend the West side of town because things are newer and slightly less crowded (which seems like an oxymoron for Tokyo but, relatively speaking the "shi-ta-machi" or "downtown" areas on the East side are older and more densely populated). Plus lots of people live in the direction of Chiba-ken and, because of the position of Tokyo Bay, there are fewer lines that run out that way. You're in for some painful commutes if you pick Chiba-ken. Besides, Roppongi is more-or-less on the West side of Tokyo.

[Excuse the extra hyphen in the paragraph above... the forum software apparently bleeps-out things that look like swear words, even if they're a part of another legitimate word. :confused2:]

If you prefer living close to town and have the budget, Azabu-juban or Mita are close to Roppongi and have a significant ex-pat population. I'm guessing they'll be slightly less expensive than Roppongi or Hiroo, but probably not by much.



> Is Nakano-shimbashi a nice area to stay in your opinion and what makes it so?


I think so. It's quiet. There are many good restaurants near the station. And I can walk/bicycle to either Nakano or Shinjuku stations if the mood strikes me. But there's nothing here that you can't also find in thousands of other neighborhoods. If you value quiet and simple, find a very small station along one of the subway or private rail lines at least 5 or 10 stops outside the Yamanote loop.

Also... you might want to think about how you divide up your total commute time. For example, if you pick a station not too far from town where you have, say, a 15 minute train ride and a 15 minute walk, you can probably find a nice place for less money than if you rode the train for 30 minutes and lived right on top of the train station. The reason is that people here tend to measure a commute in terms of the walking distance and value places closer to the station, even if the train ride is longer. In fact, that's one of the most prominent figures shown on apartment listings -- the walking time to the nearest station. Of course, you'd have to balance cost against convenience because nearly anything you do will involve a train of some sort -- that's why a 15 minute walk to the station can knock several hundred dollars off the monthly rent... and with the money you save you can always buy a bicycle.

Anyway... there's no way I could possibly enumerate all the places you *could* live. What I'd suggest once you get here is to ride the trains starting from your place of work and get off at each stop to get a feel for the area. Usually there is a realtor near each station and you can look at the listings in the window to get an idea how expensive the place is. If you find a station you like, use a map to find areas with small shops away from the main station area. Those are likely to be residential areas.



> Thanks. I understand that there are other taxes to consider over and above this as well. From residence tax and other municipal taxes? Not fully sure.


Resident's tax is based on the national income tax. That's all if you live in Tokyo (well... there's a sales tax, or VAT, here but it's currently only 5% nationwide).



> If you could punch the numbers and see if its about right I would really appreciate it but if not, thanks for all the help provided thus far.


Sorry... I have enough trouble trying to confront my own tax return. There are web sites around that will show you the process. Like:

How Japanese Income Tax is Calculated

National tax is figured the same way everywhere so don't worry that this is a web site aimed at Nagoya residents. Perhaps the HR department at the Tokyo office of your company can help. They probably have a computer program that they can just plug in the numbers. Salaried employees without any special circumstances (such as stock trades or foreign income) usually don't have to prepare a tax return. The company does a year-end adjustment in December and files the report with the tax authorities on your behalf. You'd think they'd be able to give you a reasonably good estimate with little effort.


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## pasturesnew

beyonder said:


> hi there,
> 
> i will most likely be moving to Tokyo in a few weeks time and would like to check on a couple of things. my package is more like a local hire with relocation thrown in deal fyi.
> the job will be in the roppongi area but as i have a wife and young kid would not want to stay so close to it, noting higher costs for renting in that area as well...
> 
> 1) What would be a good area(or ward/station) to live in thats 20-30mins by train to Roppongi?
> Direct train to Roppongi. Not uber crowded would be good if it exists at all
> Are there areas with a healthy expat population? or with slightly more access to English speaking services?
> will probably be looking at a 2LDK, ideally around 70sqm and around 150-200k budget (hope the amount is reasonable)
> 
> 2) i believe my company will sort out my taxes for me but i did want to have a sense on what the possible estimated tax charge may be for full year 2011. going by some round about numbers, does this look about right to anyone who can make sense of the Japanese individual income tax?
> 
> (A) Annual Income = 20mn
> Employment Income Deduction (Annual Income x 0.05 + 1.7mn Yen) = 2,700,000
> Earned Salary Exemption	= 17,300,000
> 
> (B) Income after employment income deduction = 2,700,000
> Exemptions (example for spouse and dependant its around there) = 380k+760k
> 
> Total taxable income	=	1,560,000
> At 5% rate = 78,000
> 
> Total (2,700,000+78,000)	=	2,778,000
> 
> sound about right  any helps appreciated.
> 
> cheers, b



GL with your move, dont quite understand your tax question in terms of the very fact that your making the move, right !, so you have to comply regardless, crunching numbers now would suggest your still not decided, fwiw Y20m is a very good salary !. 
re rent, why such a small budget given Y20m salary ?, if you up your budget to 300-350 then you can secure 3LDK and have at least a 80m2 space....


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## beyonder

*thanks guys*

hi larabell, will check out the map and thanks for the advice and pointers... 

seems like quite a number of variables to consider… hmm lets see I’ll go with max 10min walk plus max 20min train ride with max one change of train and will be looking for a 2LDK in the 70m2 range. oh and thanks for the tax website. 

pasturesnew, I was determining the tax hit before confirmation of acceptance of the offer so hope that makes sense now to you. I have quite a lot of monthly ongoing costs so have to factor that in rental of a place in Tokyo which is why I am looking for something around 200k yen. 

thanks all.

cheers, raph


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## lsg168

Raph,

Regarding your tax questions - the number you come up with (2.778M on 20M) is on the low side. On top of the "national tax" you will also pay for the local taxes(ward/city) which is another 10%. 

It is probably better for you to ask your new employer to quote you the net take home pay. Most Japanese who work for large companies do not file their own income tax - the HR takes care of it monthly and then the balance come out from the Dec. paycheck.

Please also consider the move-in cost in Japan. Most places give you a two year contract, and will ask for 2 month gift money, 2 month deposit plus 1 month agent fee(yes not the owner but you pay for the agent fee). So you will have to come up with roughly 6 month equivalent rent to move in. There are real estate agents cater to expats, but the selection for Y200,000 can be limited.

GL with your relocation.


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## Peeta

*Yotsuya*



beyonder said:


> seems like quite a number of variables to consider… hmm lets see I’ll go with max 10min walk plus max 20min train ride with max one change of train and will be looking for a 2LDK in the 70m2 range.


Hi all,

I'm new to the forum but have been expat in Tokyo for a while. 

You might also consider Yotsuya. You would be able to get to Roppongi in about twenty minutes with one transfer, either at Azabu Jyuban or Kasumigaseki. Yotsuya is a nice area with relatively a lot of greenery. There's a nice park by the station with a good playground, tennis courts, and a baseball field. Sophia University is also located there; it's known for having an international climate. It's also just a few stops from Shinjuku, which is of course, shopping central and the major hub for western Tokyo (also a consideration if you want to explore Tokyo on the weekends with the family?) From my experience, you should be able to get a nice 2LDK (about 70m) around the Yotsuya/Ichigaya area for about JPY 200k to 250k/month.


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## beyonder

lsg168 said:


> Please also consider the move-in cost in Japan. Most places give you a two year contract, and will ask for 2 month gift money, 2 month deposit plus 1 month agent fee(yes not the owner but you pay for the agent fee). So you will have to come up with roughly 6 month equivalent rent to move in. There are real estate agents cater to expats, but the selection for Y200,000 can be limited.
> 
> GL with your relocation.


thanks for your chiming in on the numbers. ouch another 10%!!! doh! i think my annual income number may be higher than what i noted so hopefully it makes up for the pain of tax cuts.

thanks for your other pointers too. i believe my co. will sort out my tax filings and also stand in the middle for the lease and cover all those costs u noted. 

cheers


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## beyonder

Peeta said:


> You might also consider Yotsuya. You would be able to get to Roppongi in about twenty minutes with one transfer, either at Azabu Jyuban or Kasumigaseki. Yotsuya is a nice area with relatively a lot of greenery. There's a nice park by the station with a good playground, tennis courts, and a baseball field. Sophia University is also located there; it's known for having an international climate. It's also just a few stops from Shinjuku, which is of course, shopping central and the major hub for western Tokyo (also a consideration if you want to explore Tokyo on the weekends with the family?) From my experience, you should be able to get a nice 2LDK (about 70m) around the Yotsuya/Ichigaya area for about JPY 200k to 250k/month.


Hi Peeta, thanks for your suggestion. sounds like a great neighbourhood and close to shinjuku will make my wife very happy  thanks for the suggestion and will definitely check the area out. cheers.


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## dallibee

beyonder said:


> Hi Peeta, thanks for your suggestion. sounds like a great neighbourhood and close to shinjuku will make my wife very happy  thanks for the suggestion and will definitely check the area out. cheers.


Hi 
I noticed that you are from israel and would just like to let you know that I have just come back from a week in tokyo to search for houses etc and i came across "the jewish community of japan" which is a community center in Hiroo. google it if you are interested as they have services, meals and sunday school for the kids. a small shop with some israeli goodies and adult classes too. we have found a house in walking distance from there and are looking forward to taking our young boys, 5 and 3 there.


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