# Everyone thinks my moving to France is bonkers.



## alanaepb07

Hi everyone

I would really appreciate anybody’s input on whether this is a totally bonkers idea.

My husband and I have come up with the idea of moving to France for between 12 and 15 months. We very much feel like this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, but we have received such a negative response from all of the people we have approached about this idea, many saying that it’s romanticised and impractical. I would really appreciate anyone’s advice on this form from anybody who’s done it.

The idea would be we would move when I’m six months pregnant and have the baby in France ( we already have a toddler) and he would commute back to London every month or so but stay with his UK based employer.

We believe that both of our companies will begrudgingly help us to do this - HR teams would help us with the paperwork and organising at least some of the basic logistics, and we’ve done loads and loads of research on things like Tax ( we both work in finance), and other logistics and are under absolutely no illusions that the paperwork is a complete nightmare ( I also have an EU passport). Both of our companies are large international companies who are based in the UK but also France. We’ve also considered health care etc.

The idea would be to live somewhere like Bordeaux or Lyon, my husband will work from home full time and I will look after the two young children. I’m under no illusions there are no baby playgroups etc, but on my first maternity leave with my now toddler, which granted was due to Covid, all I did was a long walks and takeaway coffees for the first 6 months. We have moved internationally before, and we live in London where we have no family support. So we wouldn’t be giving that away.

We have quite a circle of friends who we barely see because either they live too far away but still in London, or are hard to see because they live too far away (but still in London), or are insanely busy with jobs or young children. I do lots of text messages and phone calls with them, and we are reasonably introverted people. i’m not expecting to make friends in France, but my idea would be to do French language classes in the evenings, which would provide at least some social interaction.

neither of us speak French, I’ve been learning it off and on for the last few years, but I would still describe it as extremely basic. We would do some intensive language courses before we arrived.

The goal in going is to simply have a nice time as a family, finally learn French as a family ( I love languages), and enjoy good food and clean air and have a bit of an adventure.

Almost everybody I have spoken to about this plan thinks it is just too hard, and not worth it, because of having young children and all the logistical nightmare. They say that I won’t learn French without being at work, and I will be very lonely.

I would love to hear other views thank you very much


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## jweihl

It will be hard. But only you will know if it's worth it. You don't seem to have an unrealistic and overly romantic view of what life in France will be like (though there's nothing wrong with starting there). Even if you hate it, a year or so is doable and nothing you've mentioned is irreversible. 

Even though our situation is wildly different (American, retirees) part of the reason we moved to France was to experience new things and get out of living life on "autopilot". Now, even mundane things are imbued with a bit of mystery, and we get a real sense of satisfaction from successfully navigating through things that would just be another chore back in the US. 

It may be totally bonkers, but for many of us, it's the bonkers ideas that make life worthwhile. Follow your dreams.


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## Bevdeforges

I just wonder why you're only looking to move to France for "12 to 15 months" - other than the French classes, what are you hoping to achieve with this temporary move? Then this is the part that concerns me:


alanaepb07 said:


> We believe that both of our companies will begrudgingly help us to do this - HR teams would help us with the paperwork and organising at least some of the basic logistics, and we’ve done loads and loads of research on things like Tax ( we both work in finance), and other logistics and are under absolutely no illusions that the paperwork is a complete nightmare ( I also have an EU passport).


You do realize that while living in France, you would both be French employees - either of your respective companies or of a French business entity (closest thing to "self-employment" there is in France) or of a portage company - in other words, you and your "employer" would pay French taxes and French social insurances (including health care, retirement and things like unemployment and family assistance). Those tend to be higher than the charges in the UK, and that is the sticking point for most UK employers. It's not just a matter of "paperwork." We've had any number of people through these forums over the years who believe (and were even counselled by their UK employers and even the UK tax authority that there would be "no problem" with them staying on the UK payroll, paying UK social insurances and just working remotely from France. Let's just say the French Fisc feels differently and can get rather unpleasant when they find you out. Since Brexit finally took effect, you can't simply transfer your UK health benefits to France any more.

You mention that you have an EU nationality, so you won't need visas. But as a national of another EU state, you're not covered by that state's health plan unless you are currently registered and paying into that system. You'll need to get yourself onto your employer's French payroll or get your French business entity established before you can apply for your husband's residence permit (which must be done within the first 90 days he is in the country) - and at that point you will have to show that you both have health cover. Trying to do all that in the last 3 months of your pregnancy seems like taking on a whole bunch of stress and complication just when you really don't want to be doing something like that.


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## ccm47

As an expectant/ new mother surely you would be on maternity leave most of the time you are in France? You would thus not be working in France. 
You also need to look at the NHS web site (post Brexit guidance is there) to apply for funding to give birth abroad, and you should also talk to the DWP Overseas team on 0191 218 1999 about EHICS and subsequent reimbursement! They are the experts and their advice is free.

Normal rules about working in France will apply to your husband but you are special so take advantage!
Neither of you should forget that tax in France is calculated by household so you will start with 2.5 parts and increase to 3 when the second baby is born, thus reducing your tax liabilities whilst over here.

If it were me I'd take a deep breath and come over. What is stress for one person can be motivational for another.


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## ARPC

I don’t know about bonkers, as it doesn’t sound dangerous, just kind of pointless and naive and a little idiotic. Consider the level of effort for the payoff. What do you want? To learn French? To say you live(d) in France because France is charming? Have you been to Lyon? You won’t learn French as a family living in Bordeaux or Lyon for just over a year, because you’ll spend all day working in English, talking to each other, and talking to your kids, right? When does the forced immersion arrive? On walks? Commuting to London sounds like a mega bordel and a colossal waste of time for someone with a new baby he’d probably rather be spending time with anywhere, even in the playroom in London.
If you want to take an adventure while the kids are tiny, fine, but take an actual adventure, when the kids are tiny (not, like, pre-natal). Take sabbaticals when the baby comes and go live someplace truly crazy and cool, or several places. Go speak French in Morocco, and take the time as a family to absorb a new way of life.
This plan feels forced. It sounds like clinging to your jobs and comforts while trying to manually attach an exotic or « fancy » experience to a frankly already dynamic period of life. Go bonkers and do something interesting and exciting together, or stay in London and focus on the very natural private adventure that’s about to happen when you increase the size of your family . Why push the logistics so hard to spend 15 months isolated or among other expats, doing a hellish international commute, crammed together in a suburb of freaking Lyon so you can overhear park mom chatter in a language you don’t understand?
The details your facing with work rights are a nightmare. You will not get the results you say you seek. Plan this better, it is far from your « only chance ».


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## boilerman

ARPC said:


> I don’t know about bonkers, as it doesn’t sound dangerous, just kind of pointless and naive and a little idiotic. Consider the level of effort for the payoff. What do you want? To learn French? To say you live(d) in France because France is charming? Have you been to Lyon? You won’t learn French as a family living in Bordeaux or Lyon for just over a year, because you’ll spend all day working in English, talking to each other, and talking to your kids, right? When does the forced immersion arrive? On walks? Commuting to London sounds like a mega bordel and a colossal waste of time for someone with a new baby he’d probably rather be spending time with anywhere, even in the playroom in London.
> If you want to take an adventure while the kids are tiny, fine, but take an actual adventure, when the kids are tiny (not, like, pre-natal). Take sabbaticals when the baby comes and go live someplace truly crazy and cool, or several places. Go speak French in Morocco, and take the time as a family to absorb a new way of life.
> This plan feels forced. It sounds like clinging to your jobs and comforts while trying to manually attach an exotic or « fancy » experience to a frankly already dynamic period of life. Go bonkers and do something interesting and exciting together, or stay in London and focus on the very natural private adventure that’s about to happen when you increase the size of your family . Why push the logistics so hard to spend 15 months isolated or among other expats, doing a hellish international commute, crammed together in a suburb of freaking Lyon so you can overhear park mom chatter in a language you don’t understand?
> The details your facing with work rights are a nightmare. You will not get the results you say you seek. Plan this better, it is far from your « only chance ».


Wow, say it as it is, and it wan't even negative


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## Crabtree

I can sort of understand where you are coming from BUT why oh why 12 to 15 months? By the time you have slogged through the bureaucracy by the time you have found somewhere to live got the healthcare sorted and managed to settle in with limited french then you will be off again and frankly you need a year to get settled in So if you are doing it as a tester perhaps but either do it long term or not at all IMO


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## Befuddled

I'd say that going through all the bureaucratic burning hoops for such a short term adventure seems a bit silly.

If you both have the energy to do it, meeting the challenges of the move, the health issues, taxation, and dealing with a toddler and a newborn while standing on your head whistling Dixie then for a life-changing adventure, fine. For a temporary thing it just wouldn't be worth the aggro. There have been many expats in our area coming with young families. The necessary interaction re: children seems to be a great help with building social interaction. The kids (if they are young enough) pick up the language rapidly and pass on their skills to the parents. The biggest hurdle is making a living here. If you feel confident that your proposed arrangements will come together as planned then go for it.


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## BraveHorse

Lyon? Awful traffic, high crime, poor weather, it's either too cold or too hot, definitely a place to avoid.
Can't say about Bordeaux, but to really enjoy France, you should go to the countryside.


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## Xyz789

IMO a better option would be for your husband to see if he can take some parental leave/short sabbatical towards the end of your maternity leave and then spend up to a couple of months here on an extended holiday as a family. This is because of the hassle/cost of tax, healthcare, and other practical issues that others have identified. Processing times are extremely slow, so even after you post off your application, you will likely be waiting a number of months for things to be processed. 

Your husband could also explore a formal posting to his employer's French office, but for practical reasons this is probably better scheduled after the birth - you could perhaps take unpaid parental leave after your maternity leave to cover the duration? If the employer arranges the posting I assume they will provide relocation assistance, family membership of an expat health insurance policy, and a tax equalisation clause etc etc.

Otherwise, since you work for large international companies, I expect they have a formal policy on cross-border remote working outside intra-group postings/secondments due to the potential implications iro local employment law and corporation tax etc. If this is permitted at all, I assume it's limited in duration.


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