# A regular question I think!



## jimmerjammer (Nov 5, 2009)

Hi all, firstly my sincere apologies for this, I am certain that it is very similar to many posted on here previously. 
However, my wife and I have decided to up sticks and head to sunny spain. We have two young children. 
We have not totally decided on our exact destination yet as we feel that we would be happy in a few places but we are focussing on Almeria or Costa Del Sol, with Javea area in Blanca as an option. 
We are not at all put off by the unemployment rate in Spain at this time as we are confident that we will be able to source employment fairly easily in our fields. 
My wife has already received a lot of interest from heath care companies in Del Sol as her experience and qualifications are excellent and quite sought after. She is also a well qualified in child care and early years education, which is an area that we will look towards in the future as a possible business venture. This will be along the lines of a cafe with excellent soft play facilities etc. I myself am a carpenter, landscape gardener and TEFL teacher. I have also some experience in the recruitment and care industry. I have a passive income of approx £800 per month that I get from an internet venture I started a few years ago. This ticks over nicely now with little effort. So what I am asking really is if there is anyone out there with similar situation to us and how you found your move?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi - you've read the other posts so you know how hard it is to move here and find work.

You do realise that you will need to prove an income of around €600 _per person_, and take out private health insurance, before you can become resident in Spain - and that you must apply for this once you've been living here for 90 days? 

It really would be sensible for you and/or your wife to have a firm, secure job offer before you burn your bridges. What few jobs there are tend to be on short-term contracts and very badly paid. You will know, I'm sure, that there is no child allowance here, and no unemployment benefit if you can't find work. 

Sorry to be negative, but Spain is still in a very deep economic slump and in the south, one in three people are out of work.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

jimmerjammer said:


> Hi all, firstly my sincere apologies for this, I am certain that it is very similar to many posted on here previously.
> However, my wife and I have decided to up sticks and head to sunny spain. We have two young children.
> We have not totally decided on our exact destination yet as we feel that we would be happy in a few places but we are focussing on Almeria or Costa Del Sol, with Javea area in Blanca as an option.
> We are not at all put off by the unemployment rate in Spain at this time as we are confident that we will be able to source employment fairly easily in our fields.
> My wife has already received a lot of interest from heath care companies in Del Sol as her experience and qualifications are excellent and quite sought after. She is also a well qualified in child care and early years education, which is an area that we will look towards in the future as a possible business venture. This will be along the lines of a cafe with excellent soft play facilities etc. I myself am a carpenter, landscape gardener and TEFL teacher. I have also some experience in the recruitment and care industry. I have a passive income of approx £800 per month that I get from an internet venture I started a few years ago. This ticks over nicely now with little effort. So what I am asking really is if there is anyone out there with similar situation to us and how you found your move?


It wish you luck but have to agree with Alca, it would be rather foolhardy to move until you have secured contracted, legal employment earning enough to live on. 

Highly qualified and experienced people from all fields are leaving the country for work or sitting on the dole and desperate to take any little bit of low paid, casual work. 

You can pretty well forget joinery or gardening work- hundreds of thousands of those in the queue before you looking for work, and those who do find work may be doing jobs for as little as 5€ an hour. 

Language teaching may be OK but the hours are often part time, anti social and pay low. Recruitment work is extremely unlikely unless you speak fluent Spanish. care workers are flying from Spain to the UK for work. 

I'd correct Alca slightly, you have to apply for your residencia WITHIN 90 days, and if you don't have contracted employment, you will have to up have private healthcare and approx 600€ per person incl kids being paid into a Spanish bank. Some areas also look for 6000€ per person, incl kids, in savings or will accept that instead of monthly income.

You will have to register for autonomo for your online business which means paying upwards of 260€ per month in social security contributions! although you may qualify for lower payments temporarily.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Hi Jimmerjammer, Coastal Spain needs another Childcare Worker, Cafe Owner, Carpenter, TEFL teacher, Landscape Gardner along with Hairdressers, Beauticians, Electricians, Plumbers, Mechanics, Newspaper Columnists, Unofficial Taxi people, Waiters, Barpersons, HR Advisors, IT Consultants, Musicians, etc like Germany needs the return of Hitler.

You have children, limited income and a dream. Dreaming costs in Spain. The Spanish and expats here do not have the stomach for the current recession. The political system in Spain is not what you are used to in the UK. 

You appear to be making a good living in the UK and have prospects for improvement along with a loving family. My advice to you is to keep it that way and use Spain for your holidays and dreaming. Now is not the time . . . Sorry!


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## jimmerjammer (Nov 5, 2009)

*Many thanks*

Hi all and thanks for your replies. 
There was always an element of negativity to be expected and I welcome that as much as any positivity. 
For us, we are fairly head strong in that we will not go anywhere until employment has been offered. We wouldn't do that in the UK so for sure won't cross the pond without work. 
I am still extremely confident that we will succeed. We have been on the bad end of the UK system for some time now and there is one thing we know and that is how to survive. Fortunately my Spanish is good and my wifes is improving daily. 
Whilst care workers are leaving to head to the UK, there are still plenty of opportunities for the profession in Spain. My wife has several interviews lined up and is in demand. Her qualifications, experience and reputation are way above that of a typical care worker. 
As for myself, I was not expecting find work as a carpenter or joiner and wouldn't go back into recruitment if you errmmmm... paid me .... However, my teaching I feel will be able to generate a small income to top up my online business. This would net us a relatively sound income between us. I have calculated that even with a low income, no child benefit, cost of HI and extras, we can still live more comfortably than what we are currently experiencing. We receive no help here also. We certainly don't intend to burn the little bridge that we have at all. But we know that we will succeed as failure at this point is not an option. 
Thanks again for your input... all very welcome!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimmerjammer said:


> Hi all and thanks for your replies.
> There was always an element of negativity to be expected and I welcome that as much as any positivity.
> For us, we are fairly head strong in that we will not go anywhere until employment has been offered. We wouldn't do that in the UK so for sure won't cross the pond without work.
> I am still extremely confident that we will succeed. We have been on the bad end of the UK system for some time now and there is one thing we know and that is how to survive. Fortunately my Spanish is good and my wifes is improving daily.
> Whilst care workers are leaving to head to the UK, there are still plenty of opportunities for the profession in Spain. My wife has several interviews lined up and is in demand. Her qualifications, experience and reputation are way above that of a typical care worker.



I'm surprised that you are finding care work jobs - well, I'm not cos yes they are there. But they're rarely contracted or regular.

When we arrived in Spain just over 5 years ago, I was a Nurse prescriber (equivalent of band 7). I also had a wealth of experience in healthcare, studies etc. Because I didnt hologise my qualifications and wasnt totally fluent in Spanish, the only care work I could get was in British nursing homes/care agencies. Only a care worker tho - €5 an hour, not regular work, but bank work. They would phone me and offer me shifts here and there. I also did work in the community, staying in patients homes and performing "ADLs" (helping people with their daily lives) and I also went into hospitals to help care for those patients who didnt have relatives or friends (spanish nurses only nurse, not perform care tasks). Certainly no employment contract.

That said, I dont think negativity here is unrealistic. Spain is such a struggle - that struggle is for the Spanish, ex pats have it even harder. No welfare system - none can be transported from the UK and many Spanish are reluctantly moving to the UK to find work, which speaks volumes

But you're doing the right things, DONT go there on a whim, thinking you'll get something. Make sure you have a good financial buffer. Dont think moving to Spain is easy, its really hard, its such a harsh country. Knowledge is king, planning and preparation are essential, especially if you have a family and dont burn your UK bridges. But do make lots of visits, ask questions - even what you think might be silly ones.

We're back in the UK now - my husband got fed up with commuting for work, there was little future for my children (its well documented throughout the forum that my daughter hated it in Spain) and altho I loved it, the rest of the family wanted to be back in the UK. In the end, apart from the weather, day to day living in Spain isnt much different. It has to be said, the UK is such a safe and financially protected country, it may not have hot summers or space, but its easier to live in IMO. I didnt think that prior to moving to Spain, but the contrast is huge between the two countries. I used to hate the UK and its attitude, but - I still dont like it - its crowded, grey, busy, miserable and unfriendly, but its safe and easy. We now visit our friends in Spain at every opportunity and maybe one day we'll buy a bolthole in Spain and eventually we'll retire there!



Jo xxx


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## jimmerjammer (Nov 5, 2009)

*Thanks*

Hi Jo Jo, 
Many thanks for your open and honest post. 
Yeh I know of some who relocated to Spain and have found it a struggle and without doubt, our eyes are wide open. I think that as we love the place and do make visits, we have no option other than to try. We are good at that. Having lost our home in the recession, we had to pay off a negative equity at £300 per month on top of our already expensive rent of £900 per month. We managed it though and have 2 payments left. We also paying off debts to the tune of £500 per month which again will be finished shortly. We have experienced living in a one room bedsit for a year in order to find money to pay off the damned mortgage. We have fed our family on less than a tenner a day and that includes school clothes etc. We found it hard and at times unbearable and I often had my head in my hands. Yet with the desire to get out of the mess, we soldiered on hard and fast. I never put in a claim for help as I was told I didn't qualify as we were both working and had enough! 
They were right of course, as we were able to find a way. Some could argue that now is the time to sit back and enjoy the extra revenue that clearing our lead weight debt will provide and I have of course deliberated over this extensively. The fact remains though that we still want to try this. Our resolve is strong, we are a tight unit and we know how to enjoy life inexpensively. 
But as we agreed, we are not going to irresponsibly move our kids without a concrete foundation to work from. That will never happen. I am sorry that your life in Spain didn't quite work out and yes I hope you manage to secure a bolt for the future. I know that I am looking to start with a mobile home somewhere but that will be in the future. It is cheap rent all the way for us at the moment.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimmerjammer said:


> Hi all and thanks for your replies.
> There was always an element of negativity to be expected and I welcome that as much as any positivity.
> For us, we are fairly head strong in that we will not go anywhere until employment has been offered. We wouldn't do that in the UK so for sure won't cross the pond without work.
> I am still extremely confident that we will succeed. We have been on the bad end of the UK system for some time now and there is one thing we know and that is how to survive. Fortunately my Spanish is good and my wifes is improving daily.
> ...


Then I wish you the best of luck - you clearly believe in the power of positive thinking. Do please come back in a year's time and tell us how you're getting on!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Looking back over your previous posts, it seems that in 2009 your intention was to move to France but you decided against this. Then earlier this year you began to think of a move to Spain. 
Your circumstances have slightly changed in that your online income has dropped from the earlier £1000 a month to £800 and your wife is not now a 'sought- after health care professional' but a childminder with a NVQ. I don't understand why you think your chances of finding work are better than those of others in your situation. Believe me, they're not.

There is an important difference between 'negativity' and realism. One is an attitude, the other is based on fact. The reality is that there is huge unemployment in Spain especially on the CdS where every third person is out of work and where flyers advertising child minder and carpentry services for €4 an hour are on every tree and lamppost.
Your Spanish won't be good enough to cope with work situations. 
To be resident in Spain you must show proof of £2400 a month income paid into a Spanish bank account. Some regions also require £6000 savings. You must also prove health care insurance.
There is no entitlement to Child Benefit, Working Family Tax Credit or Housing Benefit here and unemployment pay comes only when you've paid into the system. 
Now that's not negativity, it's telling it like it is. 
Of course you have options other than coming to Spain. From what you have said of your past experience, of successfully rebuilding your life in the UK, your best option is to stay put.
Because if you move to Spain there is a real possibility of history repeating itself.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Jimmerjammer, you seem to be very confident after assessing many factors, so I would suggest you go for it. I don't think you'll receive anything more helpful than a range of mixed responses here. I don't think you'll learn any more than you could have by looking at past posts rather than asking a question.

I wish you luck.

One other thing, and apologies in advance, because there's no way of dressing this up nicely. If I wanted a language teacher I would look for a well qualified one. I am a bit suspicious of TEFL because I know a few people who have that qualification and I don't think their English is all it should be. For example, I would suggest you revise the grammar regarding the use of "me, myself, I".


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

And on a positive note..... my wife was out earlier and and met a newly arrived English lady whose landed a job teaching at a school. It shows that it can be done.


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## rangitoto (Apr 25, 2011)

jimme
just go for it we have been in spain now getting on for four years and its great at the moment we are in the uk on our hols to see family and friends and to escape the extreme heat but will be back the start of sept and as for some who say there is not much difference between the uk and spain just see the cost of shopping council tax water rates eating out alcohol cigs we dont smoke by the way heating costs of the house in three years we have used two gas bottles at about 16.5 euros each so things same as the uk don't think do you good luck


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rangitoto said:


> jimme
> just go for it we have been in spain now getting on for four years and its great at the moment we are in the uk on our hols to see family and friends and to escape the extreme heat but will be back the start of sept and as for some who say there is not much difference between the uk and spain just see the cost of shopping council tax water rates eating out alcohol cigs we dont smoke by the way heating costs of the house in three years we have used two gas bottles at about 16.5 euros each so things same as the uk don't think do you good luck


As lovely as you make it sound, "just go for it" is not a responsible attitude, especially with two young children. The rules have changed in Spain now and he and his family will need to prove an income and that they have made healthcare provision to be able to become residents. So they'd need private healthcare for the family, unless of course they can get employment contracts and thats the hard part.

Jo xxx


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rangitoto said:


> jimme
> just go for it we have been in spain now getting on for four years and its great at the moment we are in the uk on our hols to see family and friends and to escape the extreme heat but will be back the start of sept and as for some who say there is not much difference between the uk and spain just see the cost of shopping council tax water rates eating out alcohol cigs we dont smoke by the way heating costs of the house in three years we have used two gas bottles at about 16.5 euros each so things same as the uk don't think do you good luck


Your heating costs, 2 gas bottles in 3 years are definitely not the norm.
Most have very high electricity bills, or oil or gas. A fitted gas fire will use at least a bottle a week , a mobile 2-3 weeks, and on average heating is needed in Spanish homes from 4-5 months.
Some have central heating, log burners etc. and bills are higher than in UK.
Any money saved on council tax will be wiped out by visits back to the UK to see family, use of interpreters, accountants etc.
The only time a Spain is cheaper is if you are a heavy smoker or drinker.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I'll spend 1,980 UKP on trips back and forth! I think not.

I was surprised to see how little he was spending on fuel, and like you, I don't think it's the norm. But your finger-in-the-air "analysis" of the overall cost of living is ridiculous. Spain is cheaper. 



extranjero said:


> Your heating costs, 2 gas bottles in 3 years are definitely not the norm.
> Most have very high electricity bills, or oil or gas. A fitted gas fire will use at least a bottle a week , a mobile 2-3 weeks, and on average heating is needed in Spanish homes from 4-5 months.
> Some have central heating, log burners etc. and bills are higher than in UK.
> Any money saved on council tax will be wiped out by visits back to the UK to see family, use of interpreters, accountants etc.
> The only time a Spain is cheaper is if you are a heavy smoker or drinker.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

extranjero said:


> Your heating costs, 2 gas bottles in 3 years are definitely not the norm.
> Most have very high electricity bills, or oil or gas. A fitted gas fire will use at least a bottle a week , a mobile 2-3 weeks, and on average heating is needed in Spanish homes from 4-5 months.
> Some have central heating, log burners etc. and bills are higher than in UK.
> Any money saved on council tax will be wiped out by visits back to the UK to see family, use of interpreters, accountants etc.
> The only time a Spain is cheaper is if you are a heavy smoker or drinker.



Wow, what a crazy statement!

We don't go to UK - our family come here where they can enjoy the weather more.

We don't need interpretors nor translators!

We don't need an accountant.


... so, for us (and many I suspect), Spain is cheaper.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Wow, what a crazy statement!
> 
> We don't go to UK - our family come here where they can enjoy the weather more.
> 
> ...


Not crazy at all! 
Many people do go back to UK regularly, whether for holidays, special occasions, funerals etc
Good for you, not needing an accountant, interpreter - many do have need of them


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

extranjero said:


> Your heating costs, 2 gas bottles in 3 years are definitely not the norm.
> Most have very high electricity bills, or oil or gas. A fitted gas fire will use at least a bottle a week , a mobile 2-3 weeks, and on average heating is needed in Spanish homes from 4-5 months.
> Some have central heating, log burners etc. and bills are higher than in UK.
> Any money saved on council tax will be wiped out by visits back to the UK to see family, use of interpreters, accountants etc.
> The only time a Spain is cheaper is if you are a heavy smoker or drinker.


Yes, heating costs are high, and everyone gets caught out in their first Spanish winter. But they can vary depending on where you live, how much time you spend outdoors, whether you've got nice sunny places to sit in winter, even what time you get up and go to bed. And you can always just put on more clothes. 

I don't smoke and I'm not a heavy drinker, but I definitely find Spain much cheaper and I know I couldn't live in England on my pension. It does depend on your lifestyle of course, but so many things are free or very cheap - concerts, fairs and festivals, film and theatre, sporting facilities (€2 to use the swimming pool here compared to £6 in Oxford), etc etc. A coffee is €1 rather than £2.50, so meeting friends in the mornings costs next to nothing; a beer and a tapa in the evening, €3. 

Most services are much cheaper, from hairdressers to garage mechanics, because wages are so much lower here. €25 for a service engineer to mend the boiler - they wouldn't even come out for less than £70 in the UK. 

Then because of the climate you can spend so much more time outdoors, enjoying the countryside or just sitting reading. The best things in life are free!


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## rangitoto (Apr 25, 2011)

re gas bottle when we go back in sept the gas bottle will be about half full should not need to use it until mid jan for a few weeks then will probably need to replace and no we are not freezing our socks of either


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rangitoto said:


> re gas bottle when we go back in sept the gas bottle will be about half full should not need to use it until mid jan for a few weeks then will probably need to replace and no we are not freezing our socks of either


So how do you heat your house and water, then


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

You're not really going to bother getting into this debate are you, rangitoto. Extra is too idle to do a proper analysis. You won't get far.


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## rangitoto (Apr 25, 2011)

the hot water is electric and we have air con but we have only used the air con once just to see it it worked .also in the bedroom in 3 yrs we have never closed the patio window


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rangitoto said:


> the hot water is electric and we have air con but we have only used the air con once just to see it it worked .also in the bedroom in 3 yrs we have never closed the patio window


No analysis needed.
I doubt your heating arrangements are the norm, as I said before.
You obviously live in your own little microclimate.
The rest of us need our heaters, central heating, wood burners etc, shiver in our bathrooms, turn on our electric blankets.
Congratulations on your mini heating bills.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rangitoto said:


> the hot water is electric and we have air con but we have only used the air con once just to see it it worked .also in the bedroom in 3 yrs we have never closed the patio window


Wow, where is this place. I spent many a morning, scraping ice from the windscreen, trying to clean and dry the damp off the walls. We got flooded in for days in one of our houses, the electricity was flaky to say the least and the gas cylinders ran out, We all had to huddle under a blanket. In the area of the costa del sol where we lived, the winters were absolutely horrible and the houses ill equipped to deal with them

Jo xxx


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Extra:

I'm sure you know what it costs to maintain a house in Spain. Compare yours with my UK residence:

Council Tax: 1980
Water: 800
Combined gas and electric: 1488
Phone, TV and Internet: 600
TV licence: 140
House insurance: 300

Convert that to Euros and it's 6,644. The figure is based on a full years occupation of the property. That's double the full year cost of living in my home in Spain.

See, you might be right when you say you heat a home in Spain for 4-5 months of the year, but you're forgetting that it's 9 months of the year in the UK.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Heating bills………….ah yes, I think I can remember those………………


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Horlics said:


> Extra:
> 
> I'm sure you know what it costs to maintain a house in Spain. Compare yours with my UK residence:
> 
> ...


I dont doubt your figures, but electricity is expensive in Spain and my gripe was always that houses arent designed for the cold are they. They get damp, there are cold tiles everywhere and drafty windows. Few places have central heating and mains gas is rare. And some people use air con units in the summer months

But we are digressing a tad

Jo xxx


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Horlics said:


> Extra:
> 
> I'm sure you know what it costs to maintain a house in Spain. Compare yours with my UK residence:
> 
> ...



Combined gas/ electric- my daughters average bill is under 1000 euros for family of 4 
in 3 bed semi, gas Central heating on all the time in winter.Approx same cost in Spain
Council tax £1,400
Phone tv internet same in UK/ Spain
House ins approx same UK/ Spain
I 've already given reason why cheaper council tax is wiped out by other things in Spain


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Theres no point in arguing where is cheapest to live. It doesnt matter. What matters is if someone has enough money coming in. Spain doesnt have child benefits, Spain doesnt offer any benefits or free healthcare at all unless you've paid into their system. So its a pointless argument
Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Extra:
> 
> I'm sure you know what it costs to maintain a house in Spain. Compare yours with my UK residence:
> 
> ...



Your figures are meaningless because they are specific to you. My costs might be entirely different. For example, our costs for gas, water and electricity here in Spain far exceed yours in the UK.
In order to make meaningful comparisons you need a lot more detail: location, in Spain and the UK, size of property and most of all, preferred lifestyle.

But I must say I am amazed at the casual way in which some posters urge others to make life- changing decisions. Perhaps you are prepared to insure this family of four against any misfortune that may befall them?
'Go for it' does not seem to me to be measured, thoughtful advice.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Thinking about it, we probably spend about the same here as in the UK. We could spend more, we could spend less.
Most people who retire to Spain don't put themselves willingly in the position of having to count every penny they spend. They surely want an equivalent or better lifestyle. Everything depends, of course, on income.

Incidentally, the fact that one person got a teaching job does not imply that everyone else looking for work will. One wonders how many disappointed applicants there were.

I'm wondering if rangitto is employed or retired?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

All I say to people is do your research and make your decision. I am not urging anybody to do anything based on my view of things. I am saying to them, if they think they know what they are doing, then go ahead. So no, I won't be insuring anybody.




mrypg9 said:


> Your figures are meaningless because they are specific to you. My costs might be entirely different. For example, our costs for gas, water and electricity here in Spain far exceed yours in the UK.
> In order to make meaningful comparisons you need a lot more detail: location, in Spain and the UK, size of property and most of all, preferred lifestyle.
> 
> But I must say I am amazed at the casual way in which some posters urge others to make life- changing decisions. Perhaps you are prepared to insure this family of four against any misfortune that may befall them?
> 'Go for it' does not seem to me to be measured, thoughtful advice.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Incidentally, the fact that one person got a teaching job does not imply that everyone else looking for work will.


Of course not. Do you enjoy spending your days stating the obvious? I was simply illustrating that whilst many here paint the picture they do, some people manage to secure jobs and make the move.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Horlics said:


> Of course not. Do you enjoy spending your days stating the obvious? I was simply illustrating that whilst many here paint the picture they do, some people manage to secure jobs and make the move.


Of course they do. But its all about weighing up risks isnt it. Once upon a time it was a a low risk, easy jump to move to Spain and "live happily ever after". But times have changed and now the risk needs careful evaluation, the fact there are children involved is also something that needs consideration. 

So yes, some people can and do manage to make the move and secure employment, but its a much higher risk. 

I like to think that on the forum, we offer realistic advice, so that people think before they do it! Plan, prepare, help to give them the knowledge needed for them to make an informed choice, not just a leap of faith!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> All I say to people is do your research and make your decision. I am not urging anybody to do anything based on my view of things. I am saying to them, if they think they know what they are doing, then go ahead. So no, I won't be insuring anybody.


I'm beginning to think it's impossible to make meaningful comparisons between the cost of living in Spain and that in the UK.
We lived in a detached eighteenth century cottage in the UK. The walls were thick and although the rooms were large the ceilings were low. Consequently the heating costs were low compared to less well insulated modern houses of the same size or larger.
We had a small cottage garden, gravel in the front drive, tiled patio, no lawn. Water bills were low.
Here we have a large house with pool and garden. The house is cool in summer, well ventilated and needs no air con. But it's expensive to heat in the winter as it is not well insulated and the ceilings are high...in the salon ceiling height must be well over six metres and there is a gallery running round one end.
We have automatic top-up on the pool and the lawn needs regular watering. My last spring quarter water bill was well over 400 euros.
In the UK I had a car but rode my bike everywhere. Here I need to drive to the village for everything as it's very hilly and a good twenty minute walk, not a good idea in summer heat. It costs me over 100 euros a month for diesel, much more than when I lived in the UK.
Some things are cheaper, true. A good bottle of wine, a meal at a good restaurant....but not all fruit, fish and meat are that much cheaper. 
It depends where you live. A few km inland and we could slash our shopping bill by 15 - 20%.
It's possible to live cheaply in Spain as it is in the UK. But however you live, if your income doesn't match your outgoings, the result is unhappiness, as Mr. Micawber said in different words.
Your lifestyle is THE big factor in determining expenditure and most people want a better, more carefree life when they come to Spain so they may well spend more.

As for giving people advice: I often did things because I thought I knew what I was doing...but in fact I didn't. If a person or a couple have no dependents, don't burn all UK bridge, can satisfy requirements and can survive whilst looking for legal work, why not give it a go?
But where children are involved it's a totally different ballgame.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I agree entirely about the lifestyle point. I spend much less on the so-called essentials than I do on all the luxuries and fun stuff.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> I agree entirely about the lifestyle point. I spend much less on the so-called essentials than I do on all the luxuries and fun stuff.


And what to you or to me might be essentials could be other people's luxuries

Seriously, when you retire it's nice to be able to do fun stuff and enjoy life. You can only do that if you can afford to, though, which is why 'Spain on a shoestring' is not a good idea.

At the present time, luxury for me would be to run around my parched garden in the rain.....


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## rangitoto (Apr 25, 2011)

mrypg9

yes i do a bit but its not everybodys cup of tea what i do


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Seriously, when you retire it's nice to be able to do fun stuff and enjoy life. You can only do that if you can afford to, though, which is why 'Spain on a shoestring' is not a good idea.


But for some of us, Spain on a shoestring is infinitely preferable to England on a shoestring.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> But for some of us, Spain on a shoestring is infinitely preferable to England on a shoestring.


I agree with that, altho if I had young children and commitments, I'd say the UK is a safer bet and will catch you when you fall - Spain wouldnt.

But Spain is a different place if you dont have the worry of needing to provide or make an income - its paradise!!!

Jo xxx


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I was busy yesterday, so back to this one now things are a little less busy....



mrypg9 said:


> Your figures are meaningless because they are specific to you.


They're not meaningless in the context of the debate I was involved in. Remember, I was responding to somebody who said...

"The only time Spain is cheaper is if you are a heavy smoker or drinker."

I was illustrating that *for me *Spain is cheaper.

More than anything, I was urging the poster to show a little more thought than a throw-away statement like that. They help nobody.

I was not using those figures to claim that all people will find Spain cheaper.

I agree with you when you say it's pretty much impossible to make meaningful comparisons between the costs in the UK and Spain. Too many individual factors are involved.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Horlics said:


> I was busy yesterday, so back to this one now things are a little less busy....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the life I choose to live, Spain is certainly cheaper for me than the UK. I am a non-smoker and anything but a heavy drinker (1 bottle of wine per week spread over 3 evenings, most weeks).

I wouldn't have chosen to come had I needed to find work to be able to live here, though - not even before the crisis started, and certainly not now.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Almost everything here in the Canaries is cheaper than the Peninsular or the U.K., with one exception, property, Northern Spain is far cheaper than here.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

As I've said, taken as a whole, my life here costs about the same as in the UK. But that is because we have chosen to live in a similar detached but larger house than in the UK, with pool and large gardens for the dogs. If we'd stayed in my son's house or in the piso we briefly lived in the cost of living here would have been much much cheaper. But we didn't like that lifestyle.

Upping sticks and offing to somewhere because it's cheaper is in my view no foundation for a move. If you want 'cheap', forget Spain. Try Bulgaria, Romania, somewhere like that.

I don't smoke and like Lynn a bottle of wine lasts me three or four days at least. Sandra smokes roll-ups but drinks no alcohol. I used to enjoy a couple of G&Ts each evening but that is now prohibido. Like Lynn there is no way I would contemplate a move with a family if I needed to work to live here. Even with no dependents I wouldn't fancy risking it but I wouldn't deter others with no responsibilities.

When people ask about the cost of living in Spain, I feel like asking them to give a fifty page inventory of their house, its size, Council Tax, heating bills, location, their taste in clothes, recreation, a detailed list of shopping bills for the past year, make, age and size of car, frequency of using it...and many more such things as only then can you give even a rough estimate of what a similar lifestyle would cost in Spain.


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## castaway06 (Jul 25, 2014)

If your thinking of moving to spain without a job but looking for one then consider the following:

Youll probably spend the first two years burning through an insaine amount of money just surviving and getting out of the holiday mentality

then youll spend another two or three years scraping by adding up the cost of your shopping as you walk around the supermarket to make sure your not embarrased when you get to the till

then if your lucky and through networking youll find a little niche for yourself and be able to survive long term


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