# Appl for work permit DENIED



## melbatoast (Aug 13, 2008)

Hola everyone-- I need some expert input--

My husband is managing director for an internat'l design firm with an office in Madrid. To consolidate, he has closed the Dubai office, planning to move all non-US business to the Madrid office-- we were to transfer there and he would bulk up that location.

However, we just got word that his application for work permit was denied.
Additionally, another expat in that Madrid office, having worked there 2 years, just got his application for extension denied.

Does anyone have information as to whether or not this is an Official seachange due to current unemployment conditions? or are they knocking everyone back, making appeal necessary across the board (ie only the serious should try to move to Spain?)

What is the next best move to make? The application was made thru a lawyer's office that originally notified us the letter of acceptance was received-but when the envelope was opened, it was a letter of denial. makes me wonder if we should appeal using a different firm--

Has anyone heard of more expat work applications being turned down?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I know nothing about work permits being denied, but it wouldnt surprise me considering the state of the employment situation here, its grim!! 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

melbatoast said:


> Hola everyone-- I need some expert input--
> 
> My husband is managing director for an internat'l design firm with an office in Madrid. To consolidate, he has closed the Dubai office, planning to move all non-US business to the Madrid office-- we were to transfer there and he would bulk up that location.
> 
> ...


That's really bad news.
Are you American? I imagine so 'cos Brits don't have to get a work permit. I think you need to get in touch with other Americans. There are a few on the forum, but not many...
You could try this
American Women's Club


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Baby out with the bathwater...*



melbatoast said:


> Hola everyone-- I need some expert input--
> 
> My husband is managing director for an internat'l design firm with an office in Madrid. To consolidate, he has closed the Dubai office, planning to move all non-US business to the Madrid office-- we were to transfer there and he would bulk up that location.
> 
> ...


Hi Melbatoast

I can't give you expert input but I can give you some insight into my experience.

My husband was offered a job in January with a SME in Spain. He is a scientist working in a very specialised field, has a PhD, mega experience, etc. The company offered him the job because he has the skills they need and they can't find them in Spain. All sounds good.

We have spent the year since then on a roller-coaster ride that we have now had to pull the pin on. After eons the INEM certificate was issued to say that noone in Spain or the EU could do the job. Then Extranjeria accepted the paperwork but then asked for a whole lot more. Really frustratingly, they were apparently unable to tell us what they needed earlier - meaning the whole process is taking EVEN LONGER. They want crazy stuff like a piece of paper from our social security saying that my husband worked for X company 10 years ago, and then have the paper notarised etc etc. That is one example of about 10 different things they have asked for. We've already spent a truckload on documentation, apostilles, etc etc.

The Spanish consulate in Australia told us that when we apply here for our visas after the work permit being issued by Spain that it takes 2 weeks for my husband to get his visa (and then has to be in Spain within 1 month or else it expires), and up to 3 months for ours (family) to be issued. The authorities in Spain have told the company that I as his spouse will have to wait a year before I can join him in Spain, with potentially no right to work EVER (well, after 5 years I suppose). So conflicting information - if we carry through with the process there is the risk that he will be there and our visas will not be approved and we will have to wait a year to be with him.

At that point we decided enough was enough. We really wanted to go to Spain to have the experience, but we are completely fed up with the cloudy process and the fact that the spouse is not accounted for (I am also a professional and while I was happy to have a holiday for a year I didn't want it to be FOREVER).

To me it seems that Spain is shooting itself in the foot. If the country really wants to solidify the recession there, why not discourage businesses to be able to operate in an international arena! Seeing what they have done to your husband and the person who had already given 2 years to being in Spain by denying his visa just confirms we are making the right decision - surely the denial of these visas cannot be good for those companies who are investing in Spain?

We would have been bringing savings to live on and would have been spending my husband's salary in Spain - surely both good things? And given they can't find the skills my husband has there.... It just doesn't make sense.

We are VERY disappointed to give up the dream, but after an incredible emotional investment in all this planning, we realise we just can't continue with the process with the risks in front of us and the level of sophistication of the Spanish processes (already fed up and not even in the country!!! not a good sign!!!)

And the more I read on these forums, it seems to me that Australia is a pretty good place to be at the moment.

We hope to get there one day, but we will invest in our future here for the time being. I really feel for you and your husband, but it appears these are crazy times in Spain.

PS To my friends on the forum, this is why I have been quiet over the past few weeks - just going through the death throes of this whole sorry drama


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

jockm said:


> ...........
> To me it seems that Spain is shooting itself in the foot. If the country really wants to solidify the recession there, why not discourage businesses to be able to operate in an international arena! ..................


And you see evidense of this suicidal approach on a broader front. You also see Spanish companies expanding and investing overseas leaving Spain to rot - but no great surprise when they make everything so difficult.

And as for splitting families up what happened to Spain's family oriented society 

Spain is like a rosy apple with maggots eating away at its core 

IMHO until Catalunya declares independance and the spanish people break out of their slumber it will not get better.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Amazing that Spain allow all those obvious illegals to operate down the Costa's selling this & that & harass any tourist (by default) Yet on the face of it deny those wishing to work legally.


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

playamonte said:


> Amazing that Spain allow all those obvious illegals to operate down the Costa's selling this & that & harass any tourist (by default) Yet on the face of it deny those wishing to work legally.


Ha! We are painfully aware of how much easier it would have been to just turn up and start working! We would never consider that though, and why the [email protected]#$ should we? 

Sadly, Spain just doesn't seem to cater for us who do wish to work legally, and contribute to the business, economy and country in an above-board manner


Deary me, don't start me - we are thoroughly exhausted by it all!


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> And you see evidense of this suicidal approach on a broader front. You also see Spanish companies expanding and investing overseas leaving Spain to rot - but no great surprise when they make everything so difficult.
> 
> And as for splitting families up what happened to Spain's family oriented society
> 
> ...


Thanks for your support


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jockm said:


> At that point we decided enough was enough. We really wanted to go to Spain to have the experience, but we are completely fed up with the cloudy process and the fact that the spouse is not accounted for (I am also a professional and while I was happy to have a holiday for a year I didn't want it to be FOREVER).
> 
> To me it seems that Spain is shooting itself in the foot. If the country really wants to solidify the recession there, why not discourage businesses to be able to operate in an international arena! Seeing what they have done to your husband and the person who had already given 2 years to being in Spain by denying his visa just confirms we are making the right decision - surely the denial of these visas cannot be good for those companies who are investing in Spain?
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not sure what's best and what isn't for Spain at the moment, but I do know that messing with people's lives like this is never on the classification table of "good"
I'm very sorry to hear your story as you seemed so ready and prepared to make things work. As you say "already fed up and not even in the country"...
Looks like it's Spain's loss once again


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## melbatoast (Aug 13, 2008)

jojo said:


> I know nothing about work permits being denied, but it wouldnt surprise me considering the state of the employment situation here, its grim!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jojo, 
Your reply seems strange to me--the permit is so that he can come and direct the expansion of the office & its business, hiring MORE employees, most likely SPANIARDS!

To justify rejecting his work permit by saying unemployment is so bad there, they can't allow someone from outside to come in and employ more people is terribly flawed reasoning--yet that is the excuse immigration came back with.

If this is how Spain's gov't is determined to improve the future of their unemployed citizens, the citizens are in for a very tough ride until things change.

As it is, this particular office may close down if they can't make this move to increase their business. 

I can't see any good sense in this.


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## melbatoast (Aug 13, 2008)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and replies. I can see some sad head-shaking in your answers.

I truly hope I will post again in a few weeks to say problem solved, smarter heads have prevailed and this work permit request has been approved upon appeal.
I just hope we can appeal!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

melbatoast said:


> Jojo,
> Your reply seems strange to me--the permit is so that he can come and direct the expansion of the office & its business, hiring MORE employees, most likely SPANIARDS!
> 
> To justify rejecting his work permit by saying unemployment is so bad there, they can't allow someone from outside to come in and employ more people is terribly flawed reasoning--yet that is the excuse immigration came back with.
> ...


Same situation in the UK. The Coalition Government has made a lot of noise about cracking down on immigration and to be fair, migrants from EU countries have lowered wages and restricted job opportunities for locals in some parts of the UK. 
But if the small print of this immigration cap is examined carefully, it doesn't make sense. The cap will restrict the entry of non-EU migrants with just the scarce skills that are needed to boost growth in the private sector and thus increase employment opportunties. Dependants of existing migrants will still be allowed to enter the UK and of course you can't prevent EU nationals from coming.
I've said many times on this board that in tough times with high unemployment, jobs should go to locals wherever possible. Spain doesn't need more non-Spanish-speaking plasters, beauticians, bar-owners etc.
But highly-educated people with professional skills and qualifications are creators of jobs, not job thieves and it's short-sighted and foolish to put obstacles in their way idf they wish to help regenerate the Spanish economy.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

melbatoast said:


> Jojo,
> Your reply seems strange to me--the permit is so that he can come and direct the expansion of the office & its business, hiring MORE employees, most likely SPANIARDS!
> 
> To justify rejecting his work permit by saying unemployment is so bad there, they can't allow someone from outside to come in and employ more people is terribly flawed reasoning--yet that is the excuse immigration came back with.
> ...



I dont disagree with you!! Its just that, in general "the great unwashed" in all countries tend to view foreign employment with anger when theres an unemployment crisis! And "the powers that be" try to appease them. Thats what I meant by my comment. 

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Same situation in the UK. The Coalition Government has made a lot of noise about cracking down on immigration and to be fair, migrants from EU countries have lowered wages and restricted job opportunities for locals in some parts of the UK.
> But if the small print of this immigration cap is examined carefully, it doesn't make sense. The cap will restrict the entry of non-EU migrants with just the scarce skills that are needed to boost growth in the private sector and thus increase employment opportunties. Dependants of existing migrants will still be allowed to enter the UK and of course you can't prevent EU nationals from coming.
> I've said many times on this board that in tough times with high unemployment, jobs should go to locals wherever possible. Spain doesn't need more non-Spanish-speaking plasters, beauticians, bar-owners etc.
> But highly-educated people with professional skills and qualifications are creators of jobs, not job thieves and it's short-sighted and foolish to put obstacles in their way idf they wish to help regenerate the Spanish economy.


Well said as usual Mary! Especially as Spain doesnt have long term unemployment benefits. 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Well said as usual Mary! Especially as Spain doesnt have long term unemployment benefits.
> 
> Jo xxx



Do you know how the system works here? How long do you get benefits for? Is there such a thing as Housing Benefit, do you know?
I find it amazing that with such a high rate of unemployment there is so little social unrest.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Do you know how the system works here? How long do you get benefits for? Is there such a thing as Housing Benefit, do you know?
> I find it amazing that with such a high rate of unemployment there is so little social unrest.



I should know, but I dont for sure!! I pretty sure tho that you can only claim benefits if you've paid in. That you can only claim a certain amount ie you get 70%-80% of your wages for up to two years as long as you've paid in for a minimum of two years. Up til then its a sliding scale.

Housing benefit???? not sure, I think there is some sort of dispensation for the elderly/pensioners???? and there is cheap/low cost housing for locals

I also think that there is a lot of "black" money in Spain which folk use to get them thru and I also think that families tend to help one another more than they do in the UK.

But thats about the extent of my knowledge - and it may not be accurate!!??

Jo xxx


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2010)

jojo said:


> I also think that there is a lot of "black" money in Spain which folk use to get them thru and I also think that families tend to help one another more than they do in the UK.
> 
> But thats about the extent of my knowledge - and it may not be accurate!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


That was going to be my comment on why there's no(t much) social unrest. I'm often surprised how people play the system here.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Same situation in the UK. The Coalition Government has made a lot of noise about cracking down on immigration and to be fair, migrants from EU countries have lowered wages and restricted job opportunities for locals in some parts of the UK.
> But if the small print of this immigration cap is examined carefully, it doesn't make sense. The cap will restrict the entry of non-EU migrants with just the scarce skills that are needed to boost growth in the private sector and thus increase employment opportunties. Dependants of existing migrants will still be allowed to enter the UK and of course you can't prevent EU nationals from coming.
> I've said many times on this board that in tough times with high unemployment, jobs should go to locals wherever possible. Spain doesn't need more non-Spanish-speaking plasters, beauticians, bar-owners etc.
> But highly-educated people with professional skills and qualifications are creators of jobs, not job thieves and it's short-sighted and foolish to put obstacles in their way idf they wish to help regenerate the Spanish economy.


Well put Mrypg9!


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

Another vote for Mary!

I have watched my sister (british) and my brother in law (South African) fight and fight for him to legally become a british citizen so that he has basic rights over their children etc. He is highly skilled, speaks english perfectly and they have spent literally £1000's just to be together. He is now - AT LAST - a british citizen, now just the £780 (!!) for his first passport, but at least he is now registered as my nephews' next of kin should something awful happen to my sister.

My brother (also British) has fallen in love with an American girl - the British/American mix seems to be about the worst when it comes to finding countries you are allowed to live in together - and faces the same years of form filling and huge expense from either government. Bizarrely, as he is EU, Spain is one of the few places they could stay IF they got married, although she would never be allowed to work.

Spain are not alone in their idiotic immigration policies, luckily DH and I are of the same nationality and both EU so have had a relatively easy ride!

Having seen this up so close my heart goes out to the OP and the other posters affected and hope your situation is resolved soon.


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