# The men with grey suits have left Portugal



## nandnjudge2 (Oct 5, 2008)

A very interesting video straight hot of the press, the future does really look grim. 

The men from the IMF and EEC have now left, unlike Father Christmas next time they come they will be the bearer of even more bad news, it will not be a sack of presents but an even bigger bitter pill for the poor people of Portugal to swallow

Can any one predict what additional austerity measures will be imposed to satisfy the lenders before a revised lending package is put in place? There is only a certain amount of blood one can extract from a stone.

It would be interesting to hear some people’s thoughts as to how THEY suggest this financial crisis can be resolved.

Are we close approaching a worst-case scenario that like Argentina, Portugal will default on meeting their financial obligations and be forced to leave the Euro?

Should the latter happen would Portugal be better off in the Long Term?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

There will certainly be a general tightening on existing regulations, laws etc that apply to all Residents, regarding taxes etc.

Expats are an easy target in this respect, so it is a time that they should seriously look at their understanding and compliance with Portuguese laws that apply to them, so they don't get caught out with fines etc.


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## omostra06 (Sep 11, 2007)

although there is no doubt portugal is having hard times at the moment, (although ask a local and they will tell you its been hard times for years)
videos like this posted onto a portugal forum where new expats come for advice about moving here, will surely have them running for the hills, changing there minds about coming here and picking another country to go and live in! this cant help the situation by disscouraging expats from coming to portugal, many of whom would contribute to their local economy


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## Benny Dorm (Mar 24, 2010)

omostra06 said:


> although there is no doubt portugal is having hard times at the moment, (although ask a local and they will tell you its been hard times for years)
> videos like this posted onto a portugal forum where new expats come for advice about moving here, will surely have them running for the hills, changing there minds about coming here and picking another country to go and live in! this cant help the situation by disscouraging expats from coming to portugal, many of whom would contribute to their local economy


I think that this forum is exactly the place for the video, the "bury your head in the sand" which omostrao6 seems to be promoting, is the very attitude taken by the current Portuguese government and is precisely why this country is in such a mess. If by posting the video it saves someone from making the wrong decision, the posting has been worthwhile.


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

If Portugal were to return to the Escudo, they would be able to set their own exchange rate and therfore attract foreign investment and also tourists. For instance, just imagine that a UK visitor could come here and have double the value of Escudo's as opposed to Euro's against the Pound. The downside would be the end of low interest rates offered by the ECB.


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## omostra06 (Sep 11, 2007)

Benny Dorm said:


> I think that this forum is exactly the place for the video, the "bury your head in the sand" which omostrao6 seems to be promoting, is the very attitude taken by the current Portuguese government and is precisely why this country is in such a mess. If by posting the video it saves someone from making the wrong decision, the posting has been worthwhile.


I am merely trying to point out if we bang on long enough about how badly Portugal is going, no one will want to move here or holiday here, therefore it will have an effect on the economy here. Which is already evident whereby people are not coming to Portugal on holiday as they have read or seen on TV Portugal is closed! for business, which is not the case.

As any of us who live here know, day to day life is carrying on as normal. The vast majority of us Expats are unaffected in the goings on in the economy. Admittedly prices have gone for various utilities and staples, but this is also the case around the world. I just feel encouraging people not to come to Portugal on their holidays has a negative effect, which will ultimately damage the economy further. 

Most people choosing to holiday here in Portugal at the moment will no doubt experience no difference to previous years, if they haven't been scared off coming.


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## nandnjudge2 (Oct 5, 2008)

Omostra06 stated

I am merely trying to point out if we bang on long enough about how badly Portugal is going, no one will want to move here or holiday here, therefore it will have an effect on the economy here. Which is already evident whereby people are not coming to Portugal on holiday as they have read or seen on TV Portugal is closed! for business, which is not the case.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I think that omostra06 has some how missed the point why I posted the thread in the first place, I was under the impression that this web site is aimed at Expats and has nothing to do with Tourism. The purpose of the thread was to try and encourage a serious discussion on a subject matter that should really concern Expats living here or are about to come to Portugal which are only interested in the truth as things stand at present and more important the future and not brush it aside on the precinct that will surely have them running for the hills

I strongly believe that undecided future Expats are not that naïve to believe that problems do not exist in Portugal and would welcome clarification by way of a sensible discussion based on a broad spectrum of opinions from Expats already on the ground. 


Silvers in his response: 

If Portugal were to return to the Escudo, they would be able to set their own exchange rate and therefore attract foreign investment and also tourists. For instance, just imagine that a UK visitor could come here and have double the value of Escudo's as opposed to Euros against the Pound. The downside would be the end of low interest rates offered by the ECB.

Has made observations that are sound and he responded in the right spirit which I had hoped but he failed to mention that two things in favour for Expats considering to come to Portugal

A	Expats receiving pensions would be far better off in Portugal converting to Escudo’s as apposed to the Euro against the Pound

B	Higher interest rates would certainly benefit Expats 

Omostra06 stated

Which is already evident whereby people are not coming to Portugal on holiday as they have read or seen on TV Portugal is closed! for business, which is not the case.

The UK Press are not portraying Portugal’s problems in a negative way, far from it, they are encouraging tourists to consider that because of Portugal’s financial woes now is the right time to come to Portugal, Portugal represents excellent value for money.

Holidaymakers are being encouraged to recognise that the current problems in Portugal make this country an even more attractive destination to other places hence the record numbers of visitors reported by the Portuguese Tourist Board coming to Portugal, and so may it continue

Finally since when has this Forum been appointed as the official advertising agent for the Portugal Tourism Board and Immigration Department with the purpose of pumping out nothing but good news stories?

To present a more balanced view of Portugal have a look at this video


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## nandnjudge2 (Oct 5, 2008)

There is some talk that a deal has been cobbled up by the men in grey suits but it unlikely to be good deal for Portugal! This is a good deal for its politicians and the Euro zone, but not Portugal. It gets the politicians off the hook for the time being, it will come back to haunt them in the future. Portugal in my opinion will need at least 6 years to turn things round, probably longer.

Unemployment in Portugal is already at a high level and the new deal will not be welcome in Portugal. Portugal needs investment and it has had its chance already: money in future will be harder to get for Portugal.

Portugal has failed to move with the times. For example, its once thriving textile industry is no more and they cannot survive on tourism alone.

Portugal needs some way to get out of the Euro. The Euro is for Germany and France, but not Portugal. Portugal needs control of its own currency and economic policy. At a time like this, it should be lowering its interest rates, not increasing them, but it can't because Germany and the European Central bank makes all of the decisions for it. 

So what can they do to attract industry and regenerate their economy? Nothing! They can only impoverish their people further, forcing them to accept lower wages, reduced benefits, increased taxes and having holidays cut or having unpaid holidays.

Unlike Britain, Portugal will not even try to be fair when they make cuts, they will target those on the lowest incomes and benefits, just as they have done already. They will target government employees because they are easy targets, just as they have started to do with their teachers. 

This has already started. Last Sunday, 1st of May, the workers of one of Portugal's top supermarkets, had to work on the 1st May, traditionally a holiday for them and only one of two holidays that they get, the other being Christmas Day. 

To support the scrapping of the holiday, the company produced a handout for customers to justify in some bizarre way, why they were denying their staff their traditional holiday and proclaiming how staff should make a sacrifice for Portugal. This nasty little diatribe was actually headed up "Portugal needs to work and have a sense of Responsibility". 

From an Expats perspective we really should be thankful with our lot and do everything we can to support the economy no matter how small it may seem instead of moaning about motorway tolls and the like.


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## nandnjudge2 (Oct 5, 2008)

About 250,000 civil servants in Portugal are on strike, joining Greece and Ireland in dealing with severe austerity measures that are part of European Union bailout deals.
Trade unions say the strike is severely disrupting hospital services and trash collection.
Protesters are upset about severe budget cuts and other reforms that are conditions of a bailout deal from the International Monetary Fund and the European Union.
The changes include cuts in pensions and benefits, the abolition of many tax breaks and a higher sales tax, as well as a move to make it easier to fire employees.
The plan, details of which were released Thursday, gives Portugal until 2013 to bring its deficit from nine per cent of gross domestic product to the official euro-zone limit of three per cent, instead of as early as next year.
Comment
We are entering into uncharted times for the Euro and Portugal in particular

The Euro debt crisis went into overdrive today with the leaked announcement of the Greek government's plan to possibly leave the euro zone. The article in today's Der Spiegel has euro zone finance ministers scrambling to Luxembourg for an emergency meeting . 

Are we about to witness the start of a major structural change in the Euro with Greece opting out followed by Ireland and Portugal ?

Let us look on the brighter side, there is however some good news Braga and FC Porto have reached the Europa League final. . An incredible achievement for both clubs who have taken on the might of Europe, it is just unfortunate that the fans have to find the money to travel all the way to Dublin to see the match in person.


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