# EEA Family Permit-Need for Tenancy Agreement



## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading through a lot of posts regarding EEA Family and cannot find the right information I am looking for. So I thought it would be better to post my query.

I am a Portuguese national and moved to the UK 4 months ago. I have a full time job in UK and now I intend to get my non-EU spouse (Indian) and 2 kids (still Indian) on the EEA Family Permit. We are married for 6 years now. I currently live in a Single Room in UK and have a tenancy agreement on my name from the owner. 

On the VAF5 form, I am confused on the following:
Q 8.9.1-Where do you and the EEA National plan to live in the UK?--Not sure
Q 8.9.2-Does the EEA National own this property?--- NO
Q 8.9.3-If 'No', on what basis does the EEA National occupy this property? ---RENTED
Q 8.9.4-How many bedrooms are there in the property? ----This is a shared house with 5 rooms all rented out.
Q 8.9.5-Does anyone else live in the property?---YES

Based on this, I decided to hunt for a 2 bedroom house as I wanted to play safe to accommodate my family. I disclosed to the estate agents that I need a house for my wife and 2 kids who would be moving in with me soon. Now the estate agents wants to add my wife details in the contract and since she does not have a UK visa/FP yet, the estate agent will not allow me to rent a property. He says that since I disclosed about getting my wife here, she needs to be a legal citizen in UK. ??? On one side the gov.uk site says that you need a tenancy agreement to accommodate your family and on the other hand, the estate agents are telling me that they cannot let a property as my wife does not have a valid visa. So now the option is to hide the fact from the estate agents that I intend to get my family and have the contract drawn on my name only. 

So I want to ask. How important is the accommodation details for the EEA FP? Will my existing single room tenancy agreement work? Or should I go ahead with a 2 Bedroom house in my name?

Thanks in advance.

-Tony


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You don't need tenancy agreement with your wife's details. All you need is prospective accommodation ready to move into when your family arrives. The estate agent is correct in that they are under legal duty to check up on immigration status of tenants under the revised immigration act of 2014, called right to rent.


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

Be careful. 
The Agreement is likely to say who is to live at the address and any additional people MUST have the approval of the Landlord. Ignoring this condition would put you in Breach of the Tenancy Agreement and liable to lose your home


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi Joppa,

Thanks for the quick reply.

So let's say I rent out a 2 bedroom house in my name for now. Doest that mean I will have to revise the rental agreement from a 'Single Tenant' to 'Joint Tenant' once my wife moves in to the UK? Or should I leave it as a 'Single Tenant' even after she moves in? I would assume the estate agent/landlord would charge me again for making additions in the rental agreement. And I hope the landlord does not give me an eviction notice for hiding the fact that I originally had plans to bring my family along and did not disclose it.

Regards,

Tony


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi Skyf,

That's the exact reason I am worried-Breach of Tenancy terms. And then, this would mean loss of money again finding a new house with all the administration charges, etc again.

So what is the solution?

Regards,

Tony


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

It is a catch 22 situation. Be honest with the Agent. That your Spouse is waiting for her Visa and once granted she will live with you. You would wish a Joint Tenancy at that point.
If you have a good Credit Reference the Agent could at least grant you a Short Tenancy which would give you time to get your Spouse into the UK.
It is worth sounding the Agent out, they may have an alternative solution which protects everyone.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As far as EEA family permit is concerned, tenancy agreement isn't a required document.


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks Skyf. I was honest with the agent about my wife's visa status and lost 3 good houses for letting.  I did suggest having a Single Tenancy for 6 months and then it to a Joint Tenancy when my wife would be here, but the agent plainly refused to entertain me. Which was odd, I feel. Cant help it as I know he is following the law, but if you look at it, I find this clause stupid. 

Guess I have to lie that I will stay single. Get the EEA FP stamped for my wife and then inform the landlord of making changes to the contract. If he/she agrees, well and good. If not, search for another house. Loss of money!!!


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Update:

So I liked a 2 bedroom house that I really liked. Told the estate agent that am living alone at the moment and that my wife and 2 kids will join be in 3 months and that I would legally want to add my wife's name to the tenancy agreement once she is here. Agent agreed. After that I paid £200(admin fees) and £400 (holding deposit) for the property. The next day the agent comes back to me saying that the owner is not allowing this to proceed as my wife does not have legal status to enter the UK. So now the agent has agreed to transfer the £600 back.

What now? This is getting stressful. Will the UK Embassy in India accept a letter explaining all the facts? I am ready to book a hotel for a few weeks for my family if accommodation details is all they need to process the Family Permit.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As I said you don't need tenancy agreement. Even prospective accommodation will do.


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

Getting a Tenancy is one thing, however given your requirements a Landlord/Agent will wish to know why you need 2 bedrooms? 
If you are not honest and your Family subsequently joins you, the next Property Inspection will reveal the deception. Your Landlord may be OK if all other conditions are in order i.e. the rent has been payed promptly, the accommodation is clean and tidy and there have been NO problems during your Tenancy.


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi Joppa,

So for Q 8.9.1-Where do you and the EEA National plan to live in the UK?

Should I leave this blank? 
Or can I put the single room address that I currently live at? 
Alternatively, should I write a letter detailing that I did make an effort for a 2 Bedroom house but faced difficulties due to the Right to Rent Act?

-Tony


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi Skyf,

So what happens when the property inspection reveals a deception? Do they tell me to clear the house? I dont mind doing that as long as I can get my deposit back.  What are the laws if I break the tenancy agreement clauses once they find out my wife and kids live in the property?

-Tony


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

tony_portugal said:


> Hi Skyf,
> 
> So what happens when the property inspection reveals a deception? Do they tell me to clear the house? I dont mind doing that as long as I can get my deposit back.  What are the laws if I break the tenancy agreement clauses once they find out my wife and kids live in the property?
> 
> -Tony


Worst and Best scenarios are:-

Worst..

Landlord will "encourage" you too leave and at the same time or shortly after, will serve a Notice Seeking Possession.
If you do not leave by the date given and at expiry of the Notice, the Landlord will apply to the Court for an Order of Possession.
The Court will determine the application and issue an Order requiring you to give Possession to the Landlord.
If you fail to Honour the Order, Court Bailiffs can Attend your Eviction.
If the Court process is implemented you would not only lose the Bond but also face meeting the costs of the Landlord....an order would be made by the Court.

There are a number of actions within this process which can either speed up or delay procedurers. 

Best.
You approach the Landlord, once discovered, and explain the situation. Providing all Legal requirements have been met ( your Family have the proper Entry Visas), your Landlord could adjust the Tenancy to reflect the new situation. This would require Goodwill on both sides and No doubt your conduct as a Tenant will go a long way to achieve this outcome.

There are variable outcomes between the Best and worst which depend very much on Record, Circumstances etc.

Hope this helps


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks Skyf.


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

tony_portugal said:


> Hi Joppa,
> 
> So for Q 8.9.1-Where do you and the EEA National plan to live in the UK?
> 
> ...


Hi Joppa,

I am going ahead with my EEA FP application. Just wanted your suggestions on the above query. 

Also, can I put hotel accommodation as the plan to stay till I get a house? I do have funds to manage this.

-Tony


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

For family permit, yes.


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks Joppa! I will update this forum how my process goes.

-Tony


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks to both Joppa and Skyf for clearing all my doubts. 

I am going ahead with the hotel accommodation plan as opposed to getting a kick on my teeth with the Tenancy Agreement and the legal hassles involved in case the landlord decides to evict me for falsifying information about my family.

-Tony


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Update-2nd Feb, 2016.

My wife and kids had their appointment today at the UK Consulate in Mumbai, India. The screening officer was not allowing her to proceed to the next round as they were not accepting my letter about the prospective accommodation and the hassles faced in UK. After a lot of convincing, he allowed my wife to speak to the ECO officer. He went through the letter, but he was not convinced about my difficulty faced. He has placed the application on hold and instructed my wife that they do indeed need a valid Tenancy agreement to show proof of accommodation. Also, hotel bookings do not suffice. He has given us two month time to produce a valid tenancy agreement and we do not need another online appointment. Once we have the tenancy agreement, they will allow my wife to just walk in and quote the file reference number. 

So I think the process is more strict in when applying for an EEA FP in India. Might not be the case in other countries.

Time to get back to my house hunting. But this time I will plan my words accordingly.

-Tony


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

Tony, I am sorry to read the news.
Your experience has vindicated the information I have posted which is No consolation to you and your Family, regrettably some advice posted to answer your questions is now shown to be unsound. Am sure this information was given in good faith, however in the present climate lack of good and adequate accommodation is going to present difficulties for any application.

Your best course of action now is too find an understanding Landlord who is registered. Once found I suggest a face to face meeting as it is 100 times better for a Landlord to see who they are dealing with, rather than a voice on the phone. Try to avoid an Agent ( not easy) as they will always hide behind the Landlord if there is a doubt.

You may wish to read my posts on "urgent housing report", which will tell a lot!!!


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Skyf, no worries, my friend. Atleast the ECO was considerate to give me some time to sort out my accommodation. This can be a learning experience for all of us, specially for cases related from India. No hard feelings towards anyone. This website has tons of advice, so no point moaning about the complicated visa rules framed by the governments. 

But I feel this is more to do with applications from India. Half of India, wants to come to the UK/rest of the world for a better life, so I am not surprised that the consulate there can be more strict when it comes to any sort of visas. And I bet they must be dealing with countless number of fraud cases too. But yes, sometimes they can be a pain...

Yup, the next target is to meet the landlord directly and avoid agents. Let's see how it goes.

-Tony


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear, but your experience is contrary to many others I have come across. Perhaps Indian applicants for any visa/permit have to jump through extra hoops to convince ECO. Not allowing prospective accommodation is a bummer, as it's quite difficult to secure tenancy without relevant visa/permit being shown. I'm inclined to appeal, as their decision isn't based on policy universally applied.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

skyf said:


> Your experience has vindicated the information I have posted which is No consolation to you and your Family, regrettably some advice posted to answer your questions is now shown to be unsound. Am sure this information was given in good faith, however in the present climate lack of good and adequate accommodation is going to present difficulties for any application.


This is an isolated example. Can you quote any other EEA family permit applications being declined for lack of tenancy agreement? My suggestion still stands, but in the present climate, rejection for any reason - correctly or incorrectly applied - is a possibility. UKVI try to deny as many applications as they can, hoping that people won't bother to appeal and just give up, thus improving immigration stats.


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

Joppa said:


> This is an isolated example. Can you quote any other EEA family permit applications being declined for lack of tenancy agreement? My suggestion still stands, but in the present climate, rejection for any reason - correctly or incorrectly applied - is a possibility. UKVI try to deny as many applications as they can, hoping that people won't bother to appeal and just give up, thus improving immigration stats.


.

Agree in the present climate any non- compliance with regulations, however minor, will possibly lead to refusal, and the acceptance of this possibility makes this particular case not so exceptional. Indeed it would not be surprising to discover other refused applications because housing was deficient.
I do know many migrants are being removed due in part to inadequately specified housing, which had been believed to be suitable before entry. This process is causing untold stress and misery which can be avoided if Applicants and particularly Sponsors use their head rather than the Heart when securing accommodation.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

But you are talking about status under UK immigration rules, not EEA regulations. I know Home Office, like many other EU states, sit loosely on EU directives until they are taken to court, but an appeal in such cases is almost always upheld (but as I've said they are hoping many don't bother to appeal, being put off by the long timeline thus keeping more people away).


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## mapvg (Jul 20, 2015)

Hi Tony... before we are on the same boat. My husband is a Portuguese national while I am Non EEA national. When he arrived in UK, he stayed with his brother for roughly 2months. Within that time frame, he was trying to find a house/flat to rent for us. The agents were informed that I am going to follow and live with him when all my papers are sorted with the Home Office. Unfortunately, they did not let my husband rent any properties until I am here in the UK with right to reside or he will be renting the property alone for short term then when I get here then we will look for another property for the 2 of us. He eventually rented a double bedroom as last resort. By the time I applied for the EEA Family Permit, I did not submit any tenancy agreements. Though it is not a required document, they were just trying to have a proof of accomodation. That by the time I get to UK I got a place to stay. What we did, we did ask the landlord who lives at the house as well (it comprises of 2 rooms which 1 room my husband rented it) to make a letter. It contains like he is the legal occupier of the property, that he let my husband rent the room, that he is informed that I am applying for the EEA family permit and I will be living with my husband when I arrived in the UK. Letter is signed, dated by the landlord. Along with that, we got a electric bill with the landlords name and address. 

When I submitted my application, it went well smoothly. No interviews and no phone calls. When I arrived here in UK, border force didnt ask about the address or what. When I applied for the EEA 2 Residence Card we are still renting the room (almost 2 months when I arrived here) we still ask the landlord to make a current letter but instead of EEA Family Permit purposes now its for RC purposes. By end of October, luckily we were able to find a flat to rent.


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## Peter05 (Jul 17, 2016)

*Peter*

Hi All,

I am in the process of Applying EEA Family Permit, where my Spouse is exercising EU treaty rights in UK. Please advise based on my scenario;
Initially my Spouse stayed with her sister and then moved to house as a lodger with the Landlord, but unfortunately the Landlord didn't agree to sign the Tenancy agreement or provide a letter that my spouse resides in that house, but my spouse is trying to convince to get the letter, as the Landlord is afraid that she might be in to problem as the house belongs to council. So my spouse moved to another house where the Landlord is okay to sign Rent agreement as well as the letter stating that he is the legal occupier and the tenant spouse is in the process of applying EEA Family permit and he will be staying with the tenant at the arrival of United Kingdom.
My Questions is?
The Tenancy agreement was paid and downloaded from Spare.co.uk. Does the Immigration officer accept that one?
Apart from other documents, Is the letter and Tenancy agreement sufficient for us to make EEA FP application? 
Incase if my spouse gets the letter from previous Landlord, is that okay to submit along with applications or not? Please advise.
Need all your support to make application.

Thanks in Advance.
Peter


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## Peter05 (Jul 17, 2016)

Hi All,

I am in the process of Applying EEA Family Permit, where my Spouse is exercising EU treaty rights in UK. Please advise based on my scenario;
Initially my Spouse stayed with her sister (She received NI number with this address) and then moved to another house as a lodger with the living Landlord, but unfortunately the Landlord didn't agree to sign the Tenancy agreement or provide a letter stating that my spouse resides in that house (she has evidence of Bank statement, pay slips and phone bill on this address), but my spouse is trying to convince to get the letter, as the Landlord is afraid that she might be in to problem as the house belongs to council. So my spouse moved to another house (planning to change all statements/documents to this address) where the Landlord is okay to sign Rent agreement as well as the letter stating that he is the legal occupier and the tenant spouse is in the process of applying EEA Family permit and he will be staying with the tenant at the arrival of United Kingdom.
My Questions is?
My Spouse stayed at Multiple address and had evidence of that, do my spouse needs to explain on her covering letter stating she lived with her sister for one month and does she needs to get a letter from her sister for staying with her? And from second month moved to another house, does she needs to get a letter from her landlord? If so this is where the problem, as I said earlier my spouse is trying to convenience to get letter from the landlord. And eventually at her current address the landlord agreed to provide a letter and to sign the tenancy agreement, or this is sufficient to make an application rather by explaining and providing the letters of previous stays.
Do my spouse need to show both Tenancy agreement and letter from current Landlord?
The Tenancy agreement was paid and downloaded from Spare.co.uk. Does the ECO accept that one? Or can I only show the receipt of letter received from landlord confirming my stay on arrival and my spouse had rented the house?

Need all your support to make application.

Thanks in Advance.
Peter


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## Peter05 (Jul 17, 2016)

mapvg said:


> Hi Tony... before we are on the same boat. My husband is a Portuguese national while I am Non EEA national. When he arrived in UK, he stayed with his brother for roughly 2months. Within that time frame, he was trying to find a house/flat to rent for us. The agents were informed that I am going to follow and live with him when all my papers are sorted with the Home Office. Unfortunately, they did not let my husband rent any properties until I am here in the UK with right to reside or he will be renting the property alone for short term then when I get here then we will look for another property for the 2 of us. He eventually rented a double bedroom as last resort. By the time I applied for the EEA Family Permit, I did not submit any tenancy agreements. Though it is not a required document, they were just trying to have a proof of accomodation. That by the time I get to UK I got a place to stay. What we did, we did ask the landlord who lives at the house as well (it comprises of 2 rooms which 1 room my husband rented it) to make a letter. It contains like he is the legal occupier of the property, that he let my husband rent the room, that he is informed that I am applying for the EEA family permit and I will be living with my husband when I arrived in the UK. Letter is signed, dated by the landlord. Along with that, we got a electric bill with the landlords name and address.
> 
> When I submitted my application, it went well smoothly. No interviews and no phone calls. When I arrived here in UK, border force didnt ask about the address or what. When I applied for the EEA 2 Residence Card we are still renting the room (almost 2 months when I arrived here) we still ask the landlord to make a current letter but instead of EEA Family Permit purposes now its for RC purposes. By end of October, luckily we were able to find a flat to rent.


Hi All,

I am in the process of Applying EEA Family Permit, where my Spouse is exercising EU treaty rights in UK. Please advise based on my scenario;
Initially my Spouse stayed with her sister (She received NI number with this address) and then moved to another house as a lodger with the living Landlord, but unfortunately the Landlord didn't agree to sign the Tenancy agreement or provide a letter stating that my spouse resides in that house (she has evidence of Bank statement, pay slips and phone bill on this address), but my spouse is trying to convince to get the letter, as the Landlord is afraid that she might be in to problem as the house belongs to council. So my spouse moved to another house (planning to change all statements/documents to this address) where the Landlord is okay to sign Rent agreement as well as the letter stating that he is the legal occupier and the tenant spouse is in the process of applying EEA Family permit and he will be staying with the tenant at the arrival of United Kingdom.
My Questions is?
My Spouse stayed at Multiple address and had evidence of that, do my spouse needs to explain on her covering letter stating she lived with her sister for one month and does she needs to get a letter from her sister for staying with her? And from second month moved to another house, does she needs to get a letter from her landlord? If so this is where the problem, as I said earlier my spouse is trying to convenience to get letter from the landlord. And eventually at her current address the landlord agreed to provide a letter and to sign the tenancy agreement, or this is sufficient to make an application rather by explaining and providing the letters of previous stays.
Do my spouse need to show both Tenancy agreement and letter from current Landlord?
The Tenancy agreement was paid and downloaded from Spare.co.uk. Does the ECO accept that one? Or can I only show the receipt of letter received from landlord confirming my stay on arrival and my spouse had rented the house?

Need all your support to make application.

Thanks in Advance.
Peter


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## Peter05 (Jul 17, 2016)

Hi Tony,

I am in the process of Applying EEA Family Permit, where my Spouse is exercising EU treaty rights in UK. Please advise based on my scenario;
Initially my Spouse stayed with her sister (She received NI number with this address) and then moved to another house as a lodger with the living Landlord, but unfortunately the Landlord didn't agree to sign the Tenancy agreement or provide a letter stating that my spouse resides in that house (she has evidence of Bank statement, pay slips and phone bill on this address), but my spouse is trying to convince to get the letter, as the Landlord is afraid that she might be in to problem as the house belongs to council. So my spouse moved to another house (planning to change all statements/documents to this address) where the Landlord is okay to sign Rent agreement as well as the letter stating that he is the legal occupier and the tenant spouse is in the process of applying EEA Family permit and he will be staying with the tenant at the arrival of United Kingdom.
My Questions is?
My Spouse stayed at Multiple address and had evidence of that, do my spouse needs to explain on her covering letter stating she lived with her sister for one month and does she needs to get a letter from her sister for staying with her? And from second month moved to another house, does she needs to get a letter from her landlord? If so this is where the problem, as I said earlier my spouse is trying to convenience to get letter from the landlord. And eventually at her current address the landlord agreed to provide a letter and to sign the tenancy agreement, or this is sufficient to make an application rather by explaining and providing the letters of previous stays.
Do my spouse need to show both Tenancy agreement and letter from current Landlord?
The Tenancy agreement was paid and downloaded from Spare.co.uk. Does the ECO accept that one? Or can I only show the receipt of letter received from landlord confirming my stay on arrival and my spouse had rented the house?

Need all your support to make application.

Thanks in Advance.
Peter


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## Peter05 (Jul 17, 2016)

Please some one help me on the query


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi mapvg.. Glad to know there were no hassles.

-Tony


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

Peter05 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I am in the process of Applying EEA Family Permit, where my Spouse is exercising EU treaty rights in UK. Please advise based on my scenario;
> Initially my Spouse stayed with her sister (She received NI number with this address) and then moved to another house as a lodger with the living Landlord, but unfortunately the Landlord didn't agree to sign the Tenancy agreement or provide a letter stating that my spouse resides in that house (she has evidence of Bank statement, pay slips and phone bill on this address), but my spouse is trying to convince to get the letter, as the Landlord is afraid that she might be in to problem as the house belongs to council. So my spouse moved to another house (planning to change all statements/documents to this address) where the Landlord is okay to sign Rent agreement as well as the letter stating that he is the legal occupier and the tenant spouse is in the process of applying EEA Family permit and he will be staying with the tenant at the arrival of United Kingdom.
> ...


Hi Peter,

Sorry for the late reply, but was tied up with other work. If you have a legal tenancy agreement, that should be enough.You can carry along the letter just in case.

-Tony


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## tony_portugal (Jan 5, 2016)

*Family finally here!*

Hi All,

Sorry for the late reply to this post.

My family finally got the EEA FP in April but I was so busy with work and other commitments, I forgot to update this post.

I had to rent a 2 bedroom house to show proof of my accomodation. Once my wife and kids visited the UK Consultate at Mumbai, the examining officer just glanced at the tenancy agreement, took all the documents and told my wife that she would get a reply within 1 week. Surely, all the passports came with the EEA FP stamped on them and now my family is with me in the UK.

Thanks to everyone, especially Skyf and Joppa, for helping me with all my queries.

-Tony


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