# Condo or not do



## steven.lascelles (1 mo ago)

Australian person here interested in a a condo NCR north, potentially near the new airport?
Bulacan, Novaliches, Caloocan, Valenzuela etc...

If anyone has any experiences, I'd be grateful to hear from you.

Some questions:
Should I wait, or is now a good a time as any?
Why are prices so seemingly unaffected by global events/economic outlook?
Acquire through a local sales rep with finance, seek finance in Australia or pay cash up-front?

Thanks


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## La Cebra (4 mo ago)

steven.lascelles said:


> Why are prices so seemingly unaffected by global events/economic outlook?


This is an Asian phenomenon.
Many sellers just put a price that they want, and will leave a property for sale for years, until someone offers them what they want.
Asia is also for haggling, you just need to find someone that has more urgent needs to sell and how much they are willing to accept under their asking price. Often they are unwilling to drop the price as far for a foreigner though.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

I dont know about there, I check mainly in province, where there are many more bargains,
but several places in cities are overheated. 
Perhaps unaffected by stupid foreigners pay far to much?  (I know many foreigners pay far to much for beaches in province, some 10 times higher than can get for!!!)
It happen real estate asked prices skyrocket by overheating - but it can be very hard to get any buyer...

I doubt Australian bank accept real estate in Phils as collateral, but if you can borrow elsewhere than Phils - for ok interest - anyway, better borrow there by interests in Phils are very high. The lowest I have seen is 6.5 % per year with real estate collateral, up to 13 % is common in Phils. 
LOCK UP! Many lenders in Phils tell interest *per month* to try to make it sound low 🤣

Buy condo to live there or mainly as an investment?
If for investment, I know of businesses with high potentials. I have started two for myself, but dont have money enough to do all good potentials by myself  but have a good team with capacity to do more than I can finance myself. (E g one similar real estate as I have bought is for sale very cheap, which need handling similar to one of mine. Expect around 4 times the money in around 5 years minus share for managing. It's "sold" but buyer havent paid in time as agreed so perhaps possible to get it still. The "cash out" is for PRODUCTS, which can be exported, so dont need to find buyer of the real estate. 
An other we research and prospect now for a perhaps investor. Some less percent earning potential, but start earning* fast* and can get container loads of repeet orders by contract with manufactory buyer of this raw material. Seem we can get contracts up to 20 containers per month if can supply that. The business would just make the trading step. We have "insider" close to suppliers, who has worked with them earlier. It seem available by it cost rather much to start and rich Manila/Cebu Filipinos are normaly not checking provinces at all...


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

La Cebra said:


> This is an Asian phenomenon.
> Many sellers just put a price that they want, and will leave a property for sale for years, until someone offers them what they want.
> Asia is also for haggling, you just need to find someone that has more urgent needs to sell and how much they are willing to accept under their asking price. Often they are unwilling to drop the price as far for a foreigner though.


 Yes. Some even RAISE asked price "because havent got sold in long time" !!! 🤣

And many sellers ask far to much by have got far to high expectations by they have been FOOLED by other Filipinos, who have sold but LIE they got much more pay than they realy got. Its a culture thing to try to look much better than they are, so many *middle class* are in big DEPT by they live more posh than they afford to, its common to make expensive parties as e g school exams for more than they afford to because of the "face culture"... (In difference from the very poor who are in dept because they borrow to survive.)
Although to many in "western" countries live like that too  spending living more posh than they afford...

But as Cebra said its common with bargains when owners get emergencies so they get in a hurry to sell.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

I would only buy a condo if I needed to live in it, never as an investment. The quality of build is often very low then little or no maintenance they degrade rapidly. I know of condos 10 years old fit for demolition.


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## steven.lascelles (1 mo ago)

La Cebra said:


> This is an Asian phenomenon.
> Many sellers just put a price that they want, and will leave a property for sale for years, until someone offers them what they want.
> Asia is also for haggling, you just need to find someone that has more urgent needs to sell and how much they are willing to accept under their asking price. Often they are unwilling to drop the price as far for a foreigner though.


Thanks, I’ve noticed this too… the market and the sellers seem immune to time and/or prevailing sentiment.


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## steven.lascelles (1 mo ago)

Lunkan said:


> Yes. Some even RAISE asked price "because havent got sold in long time" !!! 🤣
> 
> And many sellers ask far to much by have got far to high expectations by they have been FOOLED by other Filipinos, who have sold but LIE they got much more pay than they realy got. Its a culture thing to try to look much better than they are, so many *middle class* are in big DEPT by they live more posh than they afford to, its common to make expensive parties as e g school exams for more than they afford to because of the "face culture"... (In difference from the very poor who are in dept because they borrow to survive.)
> Although to many in "western" countries live like that too  spending living more posh than they afford...
> ...


I’m not big on bragging or talking things up, but that’s fine if you’re into it. So an emergency or urgent sale sounds great, but I assume the same action applies… ie, it gets bought up quickly unless you’re in the family circle or close.


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## steven.lascelles (1 mo ago)

Gary D said:


> I wiuld only buy a condo if I needed to live in it, never as an investment. The quality of build is often very low then little or no maintenance they degrade rapidly. I know of condos 10 years old fit for demolition.


The shine wears off quickly, I’ve noticed this too. Almost seems like a “get rich quick” scheme by developers… but there has to be some capital and future value in some of these developments?


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

steven.lascelles said:


> I’m not big on bragging or talking things up, but that’s fine if you’re into it. So an emergency or urgent sale sounds great, but I assume the same action applies… ie, it gets bought up quickly unless you’re in the family circle or close.


 It dont need to be talked up by there are some such bargains  (We have spent much time searching for them. There are more but some hard to find.)
The big advantage with my ideas compared to just real estate earn by selling it, are earning from PRODUCTION made possible by buying it, so I didnt even count with selling it in my calculations  It has assets in it at start worth 2 (3-4 ? ) times the asked price. Its so much to check, it took two days to check just a small part of it by its many hectares, but we checked enough to see its worth much more than the asked price. Its much more worth IF the errors done by owner get corrected. Because few Filipinos know how to solve it, some owners give up and sell very cheap. Its a speciality of ours to solve such. It take time to correct the errors though, thats why I extimate "cash in" for investor after around 5-6 years for such projects. 
In some cases we can be interested in part of our share of profits can be we get whats left of the project in the end so investors dont need to bother about the problem to try to get it sold. As e g with the "sold" but not paid in time real estate I mensioned. I didnt include the "rest value" when I said expect it will become 4 times the investment.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

I rented a unit in a condo in Manila, pretty new and in a good location. I was shocked to see over 50% not occupied. I asked about availability and they said they only had a few units available but had many parking spaces for sale. When questioned about all the empty ones she said they were likely owned by OFWs or others for investment. With the fees charged for maintenance etc I just didn't see where these investors were coming out ahead leaving the units empty.


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

The property market here is very different to other asian cities. supply and demand dont count ofr much. Prices rise for no apparent reason. As a foreigner you might find it very hard to get financing. Cash talks a lot louder here. 
There are a LOT of dodgy builders who promised the moon but cant even give you a price of cheese. Stay far away from anything to do with SM properties. They are cheap. 
The only properties that retain then increase value are those by Ayala, Rockwell and some of the better DMCI projects. 
Ive owned 3 condos already and made money on all...but recognise it might take 6 months to actually sell a unit despite it being a good market. Only buy from reputable developers and do good due diligence.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

And never buy off plan, it may never be finished or years late.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

freebiefan said:


> The property market here is very different to other asian cities. supply and demand dont count ofr much. Prices rise for no apparent reason. As a foreigner you might find it very hard to get financing. Cash talks a lot louder here.
> There are a LOT of dodgy builders who promised the moon but cant even give you a price of cheese. Stay far away from anything to do with SM properties. They are cheap.
> The only properties that retain then increase value are those by Ayala, Rockwell and some of the better DMCI projects.
> Ive owned 3 condos already and made money on all...but recognise it might take 6 months to actually sell a unit despite it being a good market. Only buy from reputable developers and do good due diligence.


 Yes.
Itr common banks dont approve loans. Some brokers have bank contacts though so they can solve financing by "recomend" buyer to the bank.

An extra scary examply of dodgy is a developer, who finnished fast and sold fast during the *dry* season - because it was built at land which become swamp during rain season - and hadnt even bothered to buy or lease the land!!! I guess they didnt even had correct building permit...



Gary D said:


> And never buy off plan, it may never be finished or years late.


 Yes. 
(If it isnt changed) developers gain to NEVER finnish fully. 
And some developers dont transfer the title to the condo owner as buyer expect. (Contract can say "when finnished" so developer dont need to if the complex is never finnished...)
(Just fuzzy memory, many years since I did read it and I dont aim at city condos, I go for rural real estates so I didnt try to memorize) concerning why but I believe it had to do with as long as not done, developer could get high interest from the owners, who *cant* transform to less cost loan before get title. I believe it was a tax thingy advantage too for developer when MISbehaving not finnishing the complex. I suppouse extra problem to sell too when havent got the title.


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## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

Quezon Expat said:


> said they were likely owned by OFWs or others for investment. With the fees charged for maintenance etc I just didn't see where these investors were coming out ahead leaving the units empty.


My neighbor just got back from his first stint on a ship. He is here for 45 days until he deploys again. He just bought a car and he is calling it an *investment*. It will just sit for 9 months as no one in his family has a drivers license. lol


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Zep said:


> My neighbor just got back from his first stint on a ship. He is here for 45 days until he deploys again. He just bought a car and he is calling it an *investment*. It will just sit for 9 months as no one in his family has a drivers license. lol


And he thinks that will stop them. Ran ragged and rented out for 9 month and abandoned when it breaks down. An expat friend has given up buying cars until he's here full-time. Always big bills to repair the cars on his return to get them running again just so he could use them during his vacation.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> Some even RAISE asked price "because havent got sold in long time" !!! 🤣


More than some, that's the common practice here because "land value went up so my house is worth more now." And they do it because it works as the demand for houses is endless around Cebu and Manila.



steven.lascelles said:


> Why are prices so seemingly unaffected by global events/economic outlook?


They're affected, they would normally be much higher. Better to rent a house.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

The builders will often offer to buy back at 1/2-2/3 of what you paid.


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## steven.lascelles (1 mo ago)

freebiefan said:


> The property market here is very different to other asian cities. supply and demand dont count ofr much. Prices rise for no apparent reason. As a foreigner you might find it very hard to get financing. Cash talks a lot louder here.
> There are a LOT of dodgy builders who promised the moon but cant even give you a price of cheese. Stay far away from anything to do with SM properties. They are cheap.
> The only properties that retain then increase value are those by Ayala, Rockwell and some of the better DMCI projects.
> Ive owned 3 condos already and made money on all...but recognise it might take 6 months to actually sell a unit despite it being a good market. Only buy from reputable developers and do good due diligence.


Great information, thank you. The SM marketing machine is well oiled, I've been tempted.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

steven.lascelles said:


> Great information, thank you. The SM marketing machine is well oiled, I've been tempted.


 But freebefan said SM is BAD 
I think well oiled to make it good for DEVELOPER, not for buyers


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Zep said:


> My neighbor just got back from his first stint on a ship. He is here for 45 days until he deploys again. He just bought a car and he is calling it an *investment*. It will just sit for 9 months as no one in his family has a drivers license. lol


Filipino mariners many times don't make wise decisions. Since good ones make far more than most people working in the country they are expected to pay more. Some work extra just to avoid going home and facing the demands from family. They even get hounded via email until they finally lower the boom. One told me he now understands how foreigners feel in the Philippines. I told him he had one major advantage over foreigners. He had natural camouflage and could have some peace away from home.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Quezon Expat said:


> Filipino mariners many times don't make wise decisions. Since good ones make far more than most people working in the country they are expected to pay more. Some work extra just to avoid going home and facing the demands from family. They even get hounded via email until they finally lower the boom. One told me he now understands how foreigners feel in the Philippines. I told him he had one major advantage over foreigners. He had natural camouflage and could have some peace away from home.


 Yes. One Filipina cleaner in Sweden is in 12 million pesos DEPT by she cant resist when relatives demand money...


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Before having anything to do with SM properties forget the nice showroom . Go and stand on the corridors... hear the noise on corridors and see how noise leaks from one unit to another.. They are cheaply buillt whcih is why the price becomes attractive. 
When they tell you they are already 50% sold ( or whatever the percentage is ) its because they will pay the building contractor in condos units that the contractor built, ... not in cash. This obviously pushed up the occupancy.
Anything that Ayala Premier builds is generall all sold out before building or even foundations work has started. Buying Ayala Premier offplan is very very safe.. even if you do have to wait 5 plus years to get ownership, but no issues with title .


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hear you freebienfan and that's fine it you want to live in the city with all the mayhem and apparent conveniences, while condos have their place for many? Some don't want the traffic, smog and hectic lifestyles. Not found a condo out in the provinces so stuck with "in the asawas name or lease for 50 years". What happens to the the condo after 30,40 or 50 years? They get torn down and the owners of those condos? Reality tells me to rent in a city as well as the provinces to have the ability to walk away. But.

Having the property (land) in your asawas name or a long term lease in your partners name or a trusted associate gives a lot more security (no hereditary laws with a bonified lease) and never having to deal with the body corporate (association dues) and undue or neglected maintenance resulting in the building being torn down at 30 years. Compensation? The reality is that those of us that want to maintain a nice condominium are governed by the 60/40 rule and only my observation is that locals never spend money on repairs and never long term repatriation, their loss.

OMO and I can rant on.

Cheers, Steve.


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Not having an asawa ( any more thank goodness lol ) Im happy to have the convenience of nearby supermarkets, airport close, no car required, etc no KTV from a noisy neighbour, and yes plenty advantaegs and disadvantages to either living in city condo or in province. . My condo building will most certainly be good for the next 10 years or so at which time I doubt Im here any more... either I will have run away to a province with my significantly younger lady friend and will be renting somewhere decent, or will have sold up and left these shores for somewhere cleaner greener and less polluted. 
My building is very well maintained with little signs of wear and tear after 6 years. Everyone pays their dues here, its well managed and governed.
But yes, very easy for management companies to kick the maintenance can down the road and then wonder why their building looks old and crappy. Plenty of those in all cities.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Seen and experienced condo living in Manila, 1 year old building but try to get stuff fixed, Manila was a temporary port of call for myself and Ben until we got to know each other, 12 years on and we don't miss the big smoke nor the 6 security guards that constantly roamed the complex as all is available here without guards and what I can't buy here is available online and cheaper. 
I don't need to deal with karaoke, Smelly cooking, staring neighbours that ignore you when you say hello, barking dogs or tsismis, I am absolute beachfront, 4 kms from Pure gold, Jollee Bee, BDO bank etc. 

We all have different needs and wants and nothing wrong with living in a condo.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

We have air bnb'd condos in both Manila and Dumageute and used a friend's in Subic. I think after a couple of months I'd have gone crazy. Can't imagine living in one.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

I suppouse there are condos for rent in many cities. E g I know some rent in Davao.

A while ago I suggested to a foreigner, who had thoughts of start constructing houses aiming at foreigners to solve get things well done, to use the 60/40 rule there too. I dont know if he follow that advice. 
3 Filipino and 2 foreigner shares is 60/40 too  

That one is in rural part of Puerto Princesa rather close to the city- but not to close  - not at beach but I believe can see ocean from that land by its some hilly.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

freebiefan said:


> When they tell you they are already 50% sold ( or whatever the percentage is ) its because they will pay the building contractor in condos units that the contractor built, ... not in cash. This obviously pushed up the occupancy.


Aren't the developers also the contractors? Seems borderline fraudulent if true eg



> "Property developer Cebu Landmasters, Inc. (CLI) said it sold out its latest mixed-use project in Cebu City in just three days." - New CLI project sold out in 3 days


And this would mean all those units would have to be sold on the secondary market.



freebiefan said:


> The property market here is very different to other asian cities


Or any cities, the biggest reason is the lack of middle class. Foreigners never experienced that before, so at first nothing makes sense; the people we see are low to zero income, services and labor are dirt-cheap, but if I want to live here, why is the real estate is so damn expensive? The reason is the ones owning, developing, and selling real estate are the elite class, these families have their tentacles everywhere.


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> Aren't the developers also the contractors? Seems borderline fraudulent if true eg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One other reason is the influence of the OFW market. The long term OFWs realised long ago that sending money for Johnnie Waker pasulubong was pointless, and so they have become property buyers/owners in a big way. Its why Ayala land started Alveo brand , a lower level of products aimed at middle class and OFWs. And yes the rich always get the best deals, always pay cash and always stay richer. 90% owned by the 10%.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

freebiefan said:


> Alveo brand , a lower level of products aimed at middle class and OFWs.


Two condo choices; a crappy tiny one or an overpriced luxury one which makes no sense to purchase, 20 million sale price AND pay around 20k per month in dues? A ripoff which they get away with because foreigners are limited to condo purchases. The developers can artificially inflate prices and basically print money from any random plot of land by building in Filipino prices and selling for Western prices. Traffic gets even worse but politicians on board thanks to kickbacks.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

What?! I agree with Shadowman!!! haha


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

I reserved an Airbnb condo in Davao City for a month when I arrive to test the waters. I don't believe that I could ever be enticed into purchasing a condo. A lease, maybe. With the construction I saw when I was there it would seem to me that condos would be susceptible to weakening from the low level earthquakes that occur frequently.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

AppalachianBiker said:


> With the construction I saw when I was there it would seem to me that condos would be susceptible to weakening from the low level earthquakes that occur frequently.


 Yes. Except no earthquakes at Palawan 
(In many years two DISTANT ones have been felt to Palawan, one in most north and one in most south.)


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Two condo choices; a crappy tiny one or an overpriced luxury one which makes no sense to purchase, 20 million sale price AND pay around 20k per month in dues?

Dont know about that being accurate. First one I paid 12 mill for it, sold for 18... used the 18 to buy a brand new one in BGC and sold for 24mill . Dues in the BGC one was 145p.a. or P12k per month.
Current one Im in association dues are P175 p.a.... long way from 20k a month.....400 units in this property, and only 25 non Filipino owners. Rest are all Filipinos and no one seems to concerned with the price. Currently up by about 50 % since I purchased off plan 8 years ago , and handed over with title 4 years ago.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

AppalachianBiker said:


> I reserved an Airbnb condo in Davao City for a month when I arrive to test the waters. I don't believe that I could ever be enticed into purchasing a condo. A lease, maybe. With the construction I saw when I was there it would seem to me that condos would be susceptible to weakening from the low level earthquakes that occur frequently.


They sell condo ground floor only units and those should be okay, or seek out a quality built condo, I am noticing some contractors who advertise their quality and they have buildings to view., it appears others now have your very same concerns, I would think that if the condo was sold very cheaply then there could be structural concerns.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

freebiefan said:


> dues are P175 p.a.... long way from 20k a month.


14,500 per month is a long way from 20,000 per month? 

So your condo is around 150 sqm and current price is around 17 million.

If you buy a house for 17m it'd be bigger...and you'd save 14,500 per month.

If you rent a house at 14,500 per month it'd be bigger...and you'd save 17 million.

Adjust accordingly, either way the condo is an overpriced rip.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

For once I agree with Shadow, Cheaper to rent or lease (if you can find) unless you want to live in the big smoke and live the high life long term. Think the current interest and exchange rates.
Thought you were already there shadow with no pollution? Another life?

freebein, We leased a new condo and there were no association dues as it was new and they never set the fees nor charges to any of the residents. We donated the palms and pot plants for the garden around the pool from the balconies when we moved out but I'm sure they ended up somewhere else.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Thought you were already there shadow with no pollution?


I'm in a big detached house, in a big dead-quiet tree-lined subdivision with armed guards at the gate, in the middle of the city. No break-ins, no noise, no pollution (which concentrates around the highways...and rises. And even there is becoming less of an issue with the introduction of EV).

Sure I've been tempted to buy a condo like @freebiefan but spending nearly half a million USD and then _still paying half my current rent_...isn't worth it.

I've been tempted to move to a province like you, cutting my rent in half or more, but losing all the security of a private village, and all the convenience and everything else a big city has to offer...isn't worth it. 

I've been tempted to buy a house, or buy a lot and build a house on it, but investing in any way in a country that doesn't even allow me to personally own the real estate I pay for...not even close to being worth it.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

My goal is to be able to live (and own homes) in several countries. Not sure what the op's goals are.

But not to own more than one home in a single country.

I think there are pros and cons to a condominium versus a house.

For example, when I am out of the country there is no maintenance needed on a condominium.

A house needs mowing the lawn (shoveling snow, raking leaves). House repairs, AC heat pump, exterminator. Possible storm damage needing repairs.

Both need someone to manage mail, throw away junk mail, informed of important mail, saving certain mail (e.g. needed for taxes).

Basically need a renter or caretaker ?

Perhaps renting a condominium is the best way ?

BTW, I always need to edit posts to fix errors. I think the phone software causes the majority of errors.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Condos are greatly over priced in my opinion. In USD currently over 3,000/mtr2. Add in the fees and it's easy to understand how developers get rich off them. With a condo you don't even own the dirt it sits on other than a litter box size of soil. You basically "own" a space in the air with monthly maintenance rent due. We built a home but we considere it as shelter more than investment. Were I not married to a Filipino I'd rent a house and could do so for the same as maintenance fee for a condo.A foreigner investing in the Philippines is subject to the whims of the government and face it the government here is quite corrupt by any measure.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> I've been tempted to move to a province like you, cutting my rent in half or more, but losing all the security of a private village, and all the convenience and everything else a big city has to offer...isn't worth it.


 Manila have many more murders than many provinces. (Before Duterte) it did cost only 5000p to get a person assassined, some more if the target have bodyguard. An earlier high police even went to mayor election with the main to fight the assassin problem. Dont you ever leave your guarded subdivision? 


Shadowman said:


> I've been tempted to buy a house, or buy a lot and build a house on it, but investing in any way in a country that doesn't even allow me to personally own the real estate I pay for...not even close to being worth it.


 Well, Foreigners can own whole buildings at leased land
(and max 40 % of business, which own land, if fullfil some demands.)



Shadowman said:


> I'm in a big detached house, in a big dead-quiet tree-lined subdivision with armed guards at the gate, in the middle of the city. No break-ins, no noise, no pollution (which concentrates around the highways...and rises. And even there is becoming less of an issue with the introduction of EV).


 Still. All cities are some polluted


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> Foreigners can own whole buildings at leased land


until the lease expires.

I'd have to calculate one time build cost for the house + monthly payment vs renting but I don't see many options for leasing residential land in any of the desirable locations (meaning cities). And the further you get from the city, the cheaper the land is anyway and probably easier to just purchase.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> until the lease expires.


 Yes after 25 + 25 years. (And Phils politicians discussed a law change skiping that max. I dont know what happened at that discussion.)


Shadowman said:


> I'd have to calculate one time build cost for the house + monthly payment vs renting but I don't see many options for leasing residential land in any of the desirable locations (meaning cities).


 What's desirable with polution, crowded and traffic jams? 


Shadowman said:


> And the further you get from the city, the cheaper the land is anyway and probably easier to just purchase.


 Yes. Although some complicated to own the land


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

All valid points but end of the day it's up to the individual where they want to live, city or province. Cost is obviously important as well as proximity to family if you have.
Going on what has been posted and my own sums as a non city person I chose to live 5 hours from Manila and 45 minutes from Bens 5,000 relatives. 4 Kms to town, supermarket, banks etc. 
2,500m2 lot with 3 bed two bath house, concrete, blocks and rendered, absolute beachfront for under 6M pesos, 5 years later it's in the 22 to 24M range because of the growth here, the old saying? Location, location. Currently spending another 4 to 5M for renovations, extensions and fencing to make it a 5 bed and 4 bath home which will push the value into the low to mid 30's.

Leased land if you do it right has many bonuses. The lease and contract (between Ben the land owner and me the leasee) are hereditary and on my demise the property is to be sold, unless my kids want it, chattels and goods also. Ben gets 25% of the sale and the rest to my estate, my kids in Australia. My loss at say a 30M sale is 7.5M to Ben and I'm sure he is happy about that, or will be. In the mean time I grew my investment of say 11M to say 30M or more, Ben gets his cut and 22.5M goes to my heirs in Oz. Sure I'm putting the pesos up front now but at the end of the day reality dictates that I lived here for free and made money.

I have always been a bricks and mortar man and done well, as a landlord for 35+ years renting is throwing away your money. Not often you see property prices fall and if they do correct pretty quickly from my experience. Supply and demand. 

OMO. 

Cheers, Steve.


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> So your condo is around 150 sqm and current price is around 17 million.
> 
> If you buy a house for 17m it'd be bigger...and you'd save 14,500 per month.
> 
> If you rent a house at 14,500 per month it'd be bigger...and you'd save 17 millio


Umm.. I guess this is one of those where views dont coincide. My condo is somewhere around p30-33. mill. 
No interest in owning a house given the hassles of having to put in my name via various means, some legal and some not, plus the outlay would be higher than buying a condo.
Renting....for P14,500 per month. Um that would be difficult. I live by choice/convenience in centre of Makati where lets say the rents range from 100k per month in old dark San Lorenzo houses, to north of 200K. Plus car then needed also. Im happy with my set up and it works for me. 
Having been in/out of this country for 30 odd years, Ive rented, owned , part owned etc , and what I have works. The price of condos.. the price is the price....buy with a good company and very safe investment. Buy cheap, less so. Again, were all going to disagree on this given the direction in terms of property we all have taken. condo owners think were right, house owners same, renters also same.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Well done for knowing what you want and need freebiefan and also you see we all have different choices and needs.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> What's desirable with polution, crowded and traffic jams?


Says the guy living in Sweden 



freebiefan said:


> Renting....for P14,500 per month. Um that would be difficult.


It's difficult to find a desirable condo with only 14,500 monthly dues too, and you apparently did. 



Quezon Expat said:


> I'd rent a house and could do so for the same as maintenance fee for a condo.


Exactly, and even if you double or even triple the house rent, it still makes little financial sense to drop a half mil and still pay 1/3 of what your monthly rental would be. Even the interest on that half mil could cover the house rent.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

It really makes no sense to rent if you can buy/lease long term and gain the cash at the end of the day, only for me as a renter in my teens and long term landlord there after? Rent and move on and while desirable to some the sensible reality is buying and maintain your asset (cash) and hopefully make money when you move on, I always did. Paying rent is paying someone else's mortgage. Owning a condo makes sense if you buy right, leasing for me or buying land in your asawas name also, renting a house to me and only my opinion is throwing cash away, Short term no problem but long term?

OMO. 

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Paying rent is paying someone else's mortgage.


So is paying condo dues, the difference is the money saved from buying a condo can be invested...to cover the rent.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I never said that and I expect little else from you Shadowman. (here we go again)I basically said paying rent is paying your landlords mortgage and nothing back. As for association dues? Our municipal fees/rates were under PHP 4K or 333 pesos per month, Ben paid them today, not 12 or 20K per month for nothing accomplished and an ego.
As to your question? Buy a condo and invest your money? Simply comes back to knowing the market and movements, as a guy renting in a prestigious area in Manila without pollution I thought you would be all over that. Apparently not.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

I've been a gypsy nearly all my adult life, lived in 5 different countries and always rented.
It's just so much easier, and probably cheaper in the long run, to rent than to buy.

I enjoy the freedom to move, whenever I want.


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> Lunkan said:
> 
> 
> > What's desirable with polution, crowded and traffic jams?
> ...


 So what? Its same polution, crowded and traffic jams in Philippine undepending of where I live 


Tiz said:


> I've been a gypsy nearly all my adult life, lived in 5 different countries and always rented.
> It's just so much easier, and probably cheaper in the long run, to rent than to buy.


 Well. My 6 room rural long time owned villa cost less per month including if finance with loan than the rent for a 1 room studio appartment in city...


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> I never said that


You not only said it, you repeated it:



bigpearl said:


> paying rent is paying your landlords mortgage and nothing back.


So is paying condo dues, the difference is the money saved from buying a condo can be invested...to cover the rent.



Lunkan said:


> So what?


So you breathe pollution every day city boy  I'm surrounded by trees and I let the deliveries come to me, after they leave their ID with the guards



Tiz said:


> It's just so much easier, and probably cheaper in the long run, to rent than to buy. I enjoy the freedom to move, whenever I want.


All true and even more relevant in the Philippines, where the constitution says only citizens can own land, and expats almost never become citizens.


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> So you breathe pollution every day city boy  I'm surrounded by trees


 What an extreemly stupid conclusion, thinking I live in a city!!! As kid I lived in city, except at vacations, but moved away - from a very good paid job 19-23 yo - as soon as I could...
(It took some years to get three sport injury surgeries done and recover, and I needed to save some start capital to my first business 

Trees make city air some less BAD, but still bad - undepending of what you say  
As kid I could with closed eyes tell when highway came from rural, passed first suburb just by NOSE noticing the bad air started INSPITE of big FOREST around that suburb...


Shadowman said:


> I let the deliveries come to me, after they leave their ID with the guards LOL


 Yes thats worth a LOL you living kind of locked in 🤣


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> Trees make city air some less BAD, but still bad - undepending of what you say


My air quality measurement proves no pollution anywhere near my house, *undependent *of what you say 



Lunkan said:


> you living kind of locked in


You wish you were "locked in" The Philippines, keep working and saving, maybe one day your dream will come true.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Yes I will be driving down NLEX this morning looking at the high rise dimly showing through the smog. No pollution in Manila, pull the other one.


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> My air quality measurement proves no pollution anywhere near my house, *undependent *of what you say


 Perhaps good for being in a big city, BUT no way it can be as clean as Swedish rural air  (Philippine rural air can *sometimes* be not so good by some burn garbage or to clear land. But thats tempory, not as your regular poluted city air.)


Shadowman said:


> You wish you were "locked in" The Philippines, keep working and saving, maybe one day your dream will come true.


 RURAL NOT locked in. My sport INJURY make problem.
How did you manage to make the stupid conclusion I have to work and save??!! I have more than enough for myself. I am not saving I am spending  starting businesses. I dont need to work, I do it to assist the poor, growing businesses so more poor get income by employment or indirect by the business need services or buying raw material... And include teaching how they can go on earning after I am dead and gone..
Beside adding jobs, I pay them some more than the normal and will give them a big bohnus when the businesses start earning good. I "keep" a rather big share of the profits, but thats to reinvest to add more jobs and keep control  enough until they know enough how to do things to not screw up. I have allready told part of the tribe, if my injury dont get solved - stupid doctors - so I cant move there, marry and get kids, the tribe will get all what I have in the Philippines when I die. And if I get kids, I aim at they will continue cooperate with this tribe for ever


----------



## steven.lascelles (1 mo ago)

I just want somewhere to stay when I visit and maybe hang out a bit for a bit longer when nearing retirement... this seems ok.








Semi furnished Studio with Balcony and view in Rivergreen residences, Manila


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----------



## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

23 square metres.....damn thats what an estate agent might call as being " compact"....


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Yes I will be driving down NLEX this morning looking at the high rise dimly showing through the smog.


I don't live in a 'high rise', have fun breathing all that highway traffic air though


----------



## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

steven.lascelles said:


> I just want somewhere to stay when I visit and maybe hang out a bit for a bit longer when nearing retirement... this seems ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's over 100,000/sq.mtr ! Insane.


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## La Cebra (4 mo ago)

23.3 sqm 

Are you sure that's not the NBP Maximum Security Compound ?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

La Cebra said:


> 23.3 sqm
> 
> Are you sure that's not the NBP Maximum Security Compound ?


That's about tbe size of our CR.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Thats rather common when made for Filipino sized people 
In one I looked at many years ago with sala, it was so small rooms so a normal sized (North European) foreigner he would kind of need to sleep with head in bedroom, body in sala and feet in CR. The bedroom wasnt even long enough for a Scandinavian to lay straight, except perhaps diagonal 🤣


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Quezon Expat said:


> That's over 100,000/sq.mtr ! Insane.


The empty lot two doors down from my wife's shop just sold for 60,000sqm last week and we live in the province. They should make ROI reasonably fast IF they follow the tried-and-tested business in our town.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

magsasaja said:


> The empty lot two doors down from my wife's shop just sold for 60,000sqm last week and we live in the province. They should make ROI reasonably fast IF they follow the tried-and-tested business in our town.


What is the tried and tested business in your town? Gold mining?


----------



## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

steven.lascelles said:


> I just want somewhere to stay when I visit and maybe hang out a bit for a bit longer when nearing retirement... this seems ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks like a great price (though I do not know the neighborhood).

Much lower price than Makati

Is it a short taxi ride to landmark in Makati ?


----------



## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

According to what I was told today by an attorney who owns a couple of hotels in Manila condos can be a good investment with certain caveats. He said condos are a relatively recent thing in the Philippines. The laws were written to favor the developer, of course. The condos are owned by a corporation and the life span of a corporation by law is 50 years. As the condos age they require more maintenance the cost of which is passed on to the condo owners until such time as it becomes untenable. Then the original developer under a new corporate name may offer to buy the land and the condos at a discount. The management company can squeeze the owners with maintenance fees and assessments until they give in. He said the fine print in the contract is difficult to understand for 99% of condo owners. But if you buy from a reputable developer and sell within 10-15 years you can make a profit, sometimes quite large depending on the economy at the time. He also said not to discount earhtquakes which can cause repair cost to be more than the condo owner can afford and these can happen at any time. Should the structural damage be enough that the building is condemned it becomes cheap real estate for the next owner There's a lot to consider.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

All valid points, except



Quezon Expat said:


> if you buy from a reputable developer and sell within 10-15 years you can make a profit


But is it greater profit than investing the funds for years. And now you're selling an old condo in a market with endless new condos for sale. If you're in a very desirable building it's possible, but that would mean you've already paid 10-15 years of elevated monthly dues.



Lunkan said:


> 25 + 25 years. (And Phils politicians discussed a law change skiping that max. I dont know what happened at that discussion.)


Depending on the numbers it could be a valid option, I just can't get any numbers, because leasing residential land is only done when the land isn't worth much and is difficult to sell, meaning far from anything resembling a city.


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> But is it greater profit than investing the funds for years. And now you're selling an old condo in a market with endless new condos for sale. If you're in a very desirable building it's possible, but that would mean you've already paid 10-15 years of elevated monthly dues.


 I agree with you. There are much better investments than condos, and the bad quality at most contructions in Phils dont make condo investment alternative better...


Shadowman said:


> Depending on the numbers it could be a valid option, I just can't get any numbers, because leasing residential land is only done when the land isn't worth much and is difficult to sell, meaning far from anything resembling a city.


 Well. I suppouse you are correct mostly, 
BUT if "thinking out of the box" as I do  its rather easy to solve it rather good in cities too.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

A P20m condo in Makati.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

We spent last night there. 63rd floor, fabulous view. Butted up against Trump tower. I was surprised at the amount of street noise up that high. I think it must have been a shade under 40sq m.


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Whoever has that for sale at 20 mill is having a laugh. That would represent p500,000 per square metre. 
Raffles Residences which is one of the most expensive real estate condo wise in Manila is at about P300,000- 320,000 p sq m. A nearby condo is also at about 300,00. 
Columns at Legaspi , a much older building is about 200,000 p sq metre. Garden tower, just opening is P314,0000. So this 40 sq metre at 20 mill is about 20 -30% over priced. 
Trump tower is about 270-290k per sqm.
Good luck to the owner for trying.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

freebiefan said:


> Whoever has that for sale at 20 mill is having a laugh. That would represent p500,000 per square metre.
> Raffles Residences which is one of the most expensive real estate condo wise in Manila is at about P300,000- 320,000 p sq m. A nearby condo is also at about 300,00.
> Columns at Legaspi , a much older building is about 200,000 p sq metre. Garden tower, just opening is P314,0000. So this 40 sq metre at 20 mill is about 20 -30% over priced.
> Trump tower is about 270-290k per sqm.
> Good luck to the owner for trying.


I assume it's not for sale, it's the figure quoted as what they currently go for. Gramercy Residences


----------



## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

Cozy Gramercy Makati 1br For Sale - Trovit Homes


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48 square metres. 1 bedroom 1.5 bathrooms, P11,500,000. Gramercy. or 1 bedroom 53 sq metres 15mill ( negotiable, meaning high price quoted ) 
Not disputing what you say Gary D...but 20 mill for Gramercy is way overpriced if its only 40 -ish sq metres.

Real estate here just doesnt follow any logical rules..


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

freebiefan said:


> Raffles Residences which is one of the most expensive real estate condo wise in Manila is at about P300,000- 320,000 p sqm
> Columns at Legaspi , a much older building is about 200,000 p sq metre.
> Garden tower, just opening is P314,0000.
> Trump tower is about 270-290k per sqm.


What about average dues per sqm?


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Great if you want to live in Manila proper, you pay the going overpriced rate/s like all cities. Some seek that. For many a quiet life away from the hum bug @ a quarter of the price or less.
Here? Posted before in many threads and never a regret, limited traffic until you get to town, no or little pollution, no noise, (roosters, dogs etc). 

3 bed 2 bath, 125M2, separate 40M2 studio, 1700M2 titled lot and 800M2 tax declared lot to the high tide mark, absolute beachfront in a quiet cove, dead end concrete road, 4 clicks from town, all rendered concrete and blocks. PHP 5.75M 5 years ago, now? low to mid 20's.
Not skiting but picked the right location for my needs and the growth followed. Looked at condo's in Manila 12 years ago and simply saw a flooded overpriced market that wasn't for me but suits the needs for many.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

BTW my annual dues to the local municipal and Barangay are around 4,000 pesos per year, not that they do much aside from street lighting and litter picking and cleaning the beach every 3 or 4 weeks, very happy not living in any city.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

freebiefan said:


> Cozy Gramercy Makati 1br For Sale - Trovit Homes
> 
> 
> For Sale📍The Gramercy Residences Condo For SaleWith 1 parking slotClean titleDeveloper: Century Properties1 bedroom1 bathroomwith balcony48.87 sqmfull...
> ...


Location is also a factor, our son was in a unit on the 37th floor, much bigger with the bedroom on a mezzanine but you just looked as the condo opposite. Ours on the 63rd floor was a corner unit with fabulous unrestricted views in both directions, that's what you pay for.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

There are many rural hilltops with spectacular views 
E g one have very nice view over both ocean, mountains, fields and forests. For sale for 2-3 mill before covid, big lot (=hectares) and "western" house" but with Filipino constructor  =Used NOT dried planks so the inner walls got big gaps in them when they dried so could see through them.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

The Gramercy Residences - Condominium in Makati


The Gramercy Residences a premier Condominium located at Makati, Metro Manila. View available units here.




www.thegramercyresidences.com.ph





I wonder what year it was built ?


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Howard_Z said:


> The Gramercy Residences - Condominium in Makati
> 
> 
> The Gramercy Residences a premier Condominium located at Makati, Metro Manila. View available units here.
> ...


Ready for occupancy 2015.


----------



## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

What they ask for and what they actually sell for are two very different figures.

This is what they are asking.


----------



## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

I never understood the point of a loft unit... One advantage of living in a condo, for my bunged up knees, is that you don't need to use stairs..


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Tiz said:


> I never understood the point of a loft unit...


They were trendy because the high-ceiling made it feel spacious. They got less popular as people realized that 'feeling spacious' is less important than usable space.

I never understood the point of the "view". You're just looking down on a random, unattractive Philippines city, big deal. Even the "wow I'm high up" gets old fast and even becomes isolating. I'd rather be around trees.


----------



## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

Shadowman said:


> I never understood the point of the "view". You're just looking down on a random, unattractive Philippines city, big deal.


There are some exceptions. 

Here in BGC you'll pay a premium for those condos that back onto the Manila Golf and Country Club. Also in my complex, there is a ring of 6 condos. Those on the outside of those buildings just look out into BGC, but those on the inside have a view over the pool & tennis court. The main advantage to me for those views is that it is quieter than those that are facing traffic.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Tiz said:


> Here in BGC you'll pay a premium for those condos that back onto the Manila Golf and Country Club.


A big premium, not unlike the rare central park view in NYC, but you bring up a good point about gold courses though. The best _house _locations I've seen here are facing city golf courses, through the backyard gate all you see are trees and grass.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Fantastic if you are into looking at golf ranges, tennis courts and swimming pools. My back yard is the beach and front yard is loads of fruit trees, oh and grass but hey each to their own.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Fantastic if you are into looking at golf ranges


Golf _courses_  which have some of the priciest facing homes in any country, not just the Philippines. But we all know you like the cheap stuff:



bigpearl said:


> My back yard is the beach and front yard is loads of fruit


You have strangers walking through your house at night, fruity, but hey you saved a lot of cash moving out to the sticks tho, to each their own.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Golly and gosh, here you go again, surprised you are back and note I said "each to their own", have your rented golf course and your pollution but I know my property value has quadrupled in 5 years, yours? Doh you rent so nothing, no gains except trees and grass, have all that here mate. My PHP property that we paid under 6M for is now worth low to mid 20's. Go find a condo or gated community with returns like that. 

Your unpolluted Manila compound that keeps the pollution away won't stop a crook no matter the country nor guns and honestly? I don't even think you live in PH with such outlandish remarks and one eyed cynicism, enjoy your pollution free Manila, choke, and my choice to live where I do had nothing to do with money but family and the better half.

Reality? My choice was not a city but a quieter life and it paid off financially, that's a bonus that as a renter you won't see. Pay. pay and pay again and enjoy your trees, I have absolute beachfront as well as trees, grass and no pollution and 4 klicks from Puregold, jollybee and the local market etc. But you already know that from previous dialogue here.

Talk about anal.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Howard_Z said:


> The loudest voices here hate city life


Maybe they're so bored in the province they have nothing else to do? Either way they are extremely defensive about their low-cost choices, see above.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Some dudes need to get out a bit more.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> Maybe they're so bored in the province they have nothing else to do? Either way they are extremely defensive about their low-cost choices, see above.


 You are concerning your "not polluted" subdivision in Manilla 

Me talking for not polluted, not crowded, not parking problem, not traffic jams to get the main things... and not wasteing money is to inform to try to reduce stupidity 
Many city people believe us rural living dont have access to do things!!! We have MORE we can do than city living people, because city living people cant do what rural living people can do at own yard, while rural living people have access to everything in cities by just go there when wanting/needing to. (The ONLY advantage city living people have is they can walk home if they are out and are drunk  (When I am away, I just drive home.)
Wasteing I find realy stupid. My 6 room villa plus 80 squaremeters storage with workshop and with land with good access to e g berries and fruits cost LESS than a tiny studio appartment in city, both to buy and average month costs...


bigpearl said:


> (To Shadow)
> Some dudes need to get out a bit more.


 Shadow has said he dont get out of the guarded subdivision. Not dare to because he live in Manila?


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Yeah well stupid is as stupid does, thinkers know that, remember the stupidity of his subdivision in the middle of Manila had no pollution because of the grass and trees? Each to their own.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Yeah well stupid is as stupid does, thinkers know that


 Other's stupidity can gain us thinkers  
although in Phils the gainers are often scammers or close to, because of people's stupidity make it very hard for honest to compeete against the unrealistic/impossible to fullfil what the scammers say theirs will be. 
E g many scammers say they *guarantee* very high gains soon. When offers say "guarantee" such then I recomend run  because to even have a chance to gain as much as they talk about, it has to be a high risk business...
BUT there are very good opportunities in Phils, but not that good as the scammers say.

An example of gaining NOT scamming:
A friend of mine have become rich at stock market - inspite of he is realy crap at psychology  - but he is very good at valuing businesses and other knowledge thingies. He called me very excited:
-I have found a superbargain. They are worth three times more than the market price!! I have bought much.
A few days later he called:
-People dont understand the value!!! People are stupid, he said very disapointed at the price hadnt gone up direct after he had bought 🤣
-But thats GOOD for us because otherwice there wouldnt be any bargains...
-... Oh...
🤣

(Its common a big part of people at the stock market dont understand what they are doing, many only use TA-tools, which dont bother how much things are worth, such only messure what the market do - including the stupids only using such tools. Such MAKE big overvalue baloons - and sometimes overreactions down too when the baloons burst . Such automatic tools, dont have a chance against the big guys if/when prices go down fast, because the big guys have faster systems, counting milliseconds...)


----------



## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

The condo or not is a personal decision depending on an individuals needs or wants. I seriously looked into buying a condo in Manila area, not for a full time residence but temporary as well as investment. I had to be in Manila often at the time. I could not reconcile the prices being asked along with the fees but If I could have been sure I could keep a condo rented I would have bought one. Even though one could build a VERY nice house in Tagatay for much less per square meter without the monthly fees. I did rent a condo on an occasion and was shocked that many were not occupied or even furnished though they were owned. When I asked I was told many people bought them for investment purpose. After factoring in monthly fees and potential future assessments I did not understand the thinking there.


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> they are extremely defensive about their low-cost choices, see above.


And below



bigpearl said:


> pollution...unpolluted...pollution...pollution ... pollution





Lunkan said:


> polluted...polluted....city...city... city...cities... city...city





bigpearl said:


> pollution


Thanks for reinforcing the point that you're insecure and unhappy about moving to the province with the low to zero income locals. I'm very happy to live the exact opposite lifestyle of you, in every way. 



Shadowman said:


> I'm in a big detached house, in a big dead-quiet tree-lined subdivision with armed guards at the gate, in the middle of the city. No break-ins, no noise, *no pollution (which concentrates around the highways...and rises. *And even there is becoming less of an issue with the introduction of EV).


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> Thanks for reinforcing the point that you're insecure and unhappy about moving to the province with the low to zero income locals.


 What?! As usual you make wrong conclusions  How did you manage to make we are unsecure and unhappy with province???!!! I moved AWAY from a well paid employment in capital city in Sweden as soon as I could...
Beside much nicer locations in provinces,
it has to do with almost all rich/upper middle class Filipinos I have been in contact with are very unnice people, big liars and deny even when its obvious proven!!! While big part of province people I know are nice - or very nice  
And big advantage with the TRIBE people is they ask when they dont know, instead of screwing up.
An other reason is I dont expect to change crap in whole Philippines, but some possible to improve a local tiny part and there are local tiny parts in provinces  (I have started make local improvements together with that tribe.)


----------



## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> almost all rich/upper middle class Filipinos I have been in contact with are very unnice people, big liars


Aww they hurt your feelings  but at least everyone agrees you should to stay in the province where you belong, and the rest us of can enjoy the city life


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> Aww they hurt your feelings


 Years ago I did join a Filipino business forum to learn Filipino business culture. I did learn rich/upper middle class Manila Filipinos lie a lot, deny even when proven and almost none of them know about Philippine provinces! 



Shadowman said:


> but at least everyone agrees you should to stay in the province where you belong, and the rest us of can enjoy the city life


 You still dont get it, inspite of I explained it detailed earlier. Rural living people have access to all city things by can go there when want/need to, while city living people have the disadvantages with city life all the time...


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> Rural living people have access to all city things by can go there when want/need to


You mean all these "city things"?



bigpearl said:


> Puregold, jollybee


Impressive!


----------



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> You mean all these "city things"?


 Yes. Rural living have access to all city things except cant walk home if to drunk to drive 
If settle at a side where hospital is and if settle rural at that side, it can even be faster to get to the hospital from rural than through traffic jams through city 
(Some simiilar as back before I left living in Stockholm city, it was faster to get to work from summer vacation home 80 km away than from home 10 km away inside the city - and trafffic is much worse in Manila than in Stockholm...


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

So the topic is still:

Condo or not do


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