# Guadalajara rental question re: fiador



## lizzers (Sep 21, 2008)

Hi,

I'm wondering if someone who lives in Guadalajara can clear this up for me. I have lived all over Mexico...Baja, Puebla, Estado de Mexico, DF, but I've never seen such strict (or borderline crazy) rental requirements as I have searching for a place in GDL.

I've been told I can rent without a fiador if I pay a year in advance....another person wanted a year's worth of bank statements and 10 personal and professional references.

I'm just wondering what's up....is there a real problem with people skipping out on rent there or what? Has anyone else experienced this?

Saludos!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You are the first to mention problems renting. I've never heard of those things. What is a 'fiador'?


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## lizzers (Sep 21, 2008)

Hi RVGringo,

A "fiador" is like the equivalent of a co-signer, someone to take responsibility if you, the renter, stops paying. The catch is the fiador usually has to own property in the area, so if it is Guadalajara, they must own there and in Mexico City, the same.

I've had some better luck the past few days, but it is definitely not easy. 

Someone actually told me without a fiador they would rent to me by paying one year's rent in advance! NO WAY!!!

Maybe I'm just talking to the wrong people. 




RVGRINGO said:


> You are the first to mention problems renting. I've never heard of those things. What is a 'fiador'?


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## dinqro (Jun 20, 2010)

When I went to rent a couple of years ago, it was the same. It seemed to be a pretty standard thing as part of the contract, at least when it was drawn up by any sort of real estate agent. I'm not sure how it would be in completely private transactions, probably without such a thing.

Just have a friend sign as the 'fiador', it's basically the guarantor that supposedly they can go after legally if you for some reason decide to stop paying rent. I was told that in practice though that it's pretty much impossible for them to ever collect from anyone if something goes wrong.


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## northernerindf (Jun 20, 2010)

This really depends on the landlord. 

I've experienced this in Baja and Mexico City. At first I thought it was mostly in high-end rentals, but its really all across the board, as I've even seen 3000 pesos a month apartments requiring a 'fiador' with local real-estate

There are alternatives. And once again, it really depends on how flexible the landlord/owner is willing to get. If the requirements are too pressing ( such as paying a year in advance, which I'd never heard of and is just plain crazy) its just better to find another place or look in another neighborhood. 

But be aware there are some neighborhoods in Mexico that are notorious for their requirements. I can speak of Polanco in Mexico City, where rents range from 8000 pesos (1 bedroom apartment) all the way up to 3000 Dlls (sometimes even more) a month.

Here is what I experienced in Polanco in terms of 'flexibility' from owners/landlords, from most flexible to least: 
* Two months rent in advance (as deposit), plus on-going rent. Nothing else, except ID. This place was the oldest building I saw, but it was the most flexible.
* One month's rent, plus a 'fianza'. Plus a $1,500 'background investigation fee' for credit bureau check, bank statements. etc. More on the 'fianza' at the end. 
* One month's rent, plus a 'fiador' in the form of a company (Persona Moral) established in the same city that can sign on your behalf. The flexibility here depends on the company you work for, if its multinational I would not believe they would fork over their papers (acta constituiva) just for this with the possible hassle of working such deal. If its a smaller company they may be willing to do it (This is actually how I ended up renting here) 
* One month's rent, plus a 'fiador' with real estate in the city. Note that this has to be someone that owns property in the city your renting in. If you have relatives/friends that have property elsewhere in Mexico they can't sign. (This is in case you stop paying, they can sue over something with local laws) 

From my experience, requiring a 'fiador' with real estate in the same city your renting is becoming fairly common. As noted, I've seen this even in 3000 pesos apartments in Baja.

Some landlords, realizing that if your renting, its unlikely you know someone who owns local property and is willing to put it up on guarantee for your behalf, offer a 'fianza' as an alternative. 

A 'fianza' , acts similar to a 'fiador' as you can imply by its name. A 'fianza' is renters insurance, which is fairly common in commercial real estate, but is now being used in residential areas. Fianzas for rentals typically range from 5% to 10% on a yearly contract. This means if your monthly rent is 8000 pesos (8000x12 at 5% - means you can expect to pay 4800 for a fianza). 

Fianzas can be acquired from most insurance companies in Mexico. But again, we come into the paperwork hassle, since the insurance company is ensuring the landlord his monthly rent with the 'fianza' . The insurance company of course performs due diligence on you, so on top of the sunk-cost for the fianza, also expect to hand over a fair amount of paperwork (bank statements, credit ratings, work history, etc).

Some landlords won't even consider a 'fianza' and simply stick to their guns on a 'fiador' with local real estate. Others as I've seen, are willing to take the risk and pocket an extra month's deposit and take you in without much questions.

I for one was almost going to go through with buying a fianza to rent a place, but since the insurance company that was going to back the fianza required a fair amount of paperwork from the company. The company just decided to sign directly on my behalf and hand over the paperwork directly to the landlord/owner. It spared (the company I would say ) the fianza, but again, not all companies may be willing to do it directly, nor is every landlord/owner willing to accept a company (persona moral ) as a 'fiador'.


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## northernerindf (Jun 20, 2010)

Dingro is spot on with the comment 'in practice though it's pretty much impossible for them to ever collect from anyone if something goes wrong.'. This is why landlords/owners are starting to ask for a 'fiador' or 'fianza'.

There is fine line in what he mentions 'have a friend sign as the 'fiador'. If its a friend that is not legally obligated to respond to a debt or doesn't put anything in his name as a guarantee, its called an 'aval'. 

An 'aval' is really someone who is vouching for you, but hasn't any legal obligation to respond to your debts. Though they're likely to pressure your 'aval' (phone calls, visits ), an aval may eventually 'break-in' or at least call you up on you being a deadbeat. Let's just say breaking your 'moral obligation'. But you are right in the sense that legally, there isn't much a landlord/owner can do to an 'aval' or you. Though you 'aval's' friendship is surely to go down the toilet.

A 'fiador' on the other has a legal obligation to respond to your debts. And in if fact, it's known they will promptly pay your debts or face a legal battle for their property or company. This is why landlords/owners won't let you sign a contract unless your 'fiador' either has local real estate or is a local company (persona moral). That way, if push comes to shove, they can (more easily at least) start a legal process against your fiador. And you know what's likely to happen if your fiador has his property embroiled in a legal battle, which is likely to be worth 50-100 times more what you owe in rent. 

Some landlords even refuse a local company (personal moral) as a 'fiador', because it can be more difficult to sue them, not to mention a company can go bankrupt, in which case the debt goes with it. A fiador with local real estate is a greater assurance against debts, inclusively some contracts require real estate 'libre de gravamenes', which means free of debts, legal troubles and fully-payed.

As I mentioned in the previous response, some landlords/owners are starting to take a 'fianza'. Which in case you default, its the insurance company that sold you the 'fianza' which goes after you (legally) and pays the owner/landlord his rent.


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## vietnamvet (Jul 5, 2010)

*vietnamvet*

Greetings all,
I'm moving to Merida, Yucatan, & the real estate agents I'm dealing with said they would waive the Fiador with an additional months security. So I'll have to pay three months rent and an additional months rent for their lawyer. Good Luck!


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## mariasusana (Jul 23, 2013)

*Same Problem*

​


lizzers said:


> Hi RVGringo,
> 
> A "fiador" is like the equivalent of a co-signer, someone to take responsibility if you, the renter, stops paying. The catch is the fiador usually has to own property in the area, so if it is Guadalajara, they must own there and in Mexico City, the same.
> 
> ...


No you're not. I had the same problem. Had to be a 'fiador' who owned property in Guadalajara. And guess what? When I moved, they returned the deposit money to the fiador and I haven't seen it since! Would like very much to live again in Guadalajara. But how? Renting was a nightmare. Do I have to go to an ex-pat gated community, where everybody plays golf???? Advice, please.


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## OnTheRoadToMexico (Jun 12, 2013)

Yeah, I'm with mariasusana. How does one follow the advice to rent, not buy (esp when one first gets to Mexico) if renting is THIS much hassle? And how is renting less expensive when we all know that in Mexico, one rarely, if ever, gets the security deposit back?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

One problem when renting a property is for it to be damaged, or people would not pay rent on time, or they would refuse to pay rent at all and stay there forever, lawers have to be hired and it's a long process, if a property is woth, say, 2,000,000 pesos and rent is 14,000 pesos, risk is way to high for the landlord, that's why, assuming you are good landlords, you have to take all precautions. Foreigners or not, you have to make darn sure nothing bad will happen, and if it does, to be covered for it.
In my example, you are letting unknown people drive a ferrari's worth house for 28,000 pesos! ( rent and deposit)


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Property owners are oftentimes the victims of tenants who damage property, fail to pay rent, _paracaidistas_, etc., and are then victimized once again by a corrupt judicial system and local government officials, and subjected to demands of bribes or other extortion when they seek assistance. The requirement to have a fiador or insurance helps to minimize the risks. 

In the case of expats ... not all are nice people and they, too, victimize property owners. In the D.F., as an example, some landlords won't rent to an expat because in their experience some of the expats leave before the termination of a lease. 

For someone who's undercapitalized, the alternatives to a fiador are a challenge sometimes difficult to meet. Then again, I think many expats rent a place without fully understanding the plusses and minuses of the apartment, the building or the neighborhood and they have the feeling of being trapped in a situation they're uncomfortable with and worried about getting back their deposits if they want to move-on.

I can't offer advice about GDL, specifically. I know I wouldn't move there, though. Having lived in the D.F., none of the other big cities in Mexico have ever compared favorably. I did, however, enjoy a visit to GDL last September. But it was only for a few days.


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Longford said:


> I can't offer advice about GDL, specifically. I know I wouldn't move there, though. Having lived in the D.F., none of the other big cities in Mexico have ever compared favorably. I did, however, enjoy a visit to GDL last September. But it was only for a few days.


Longford, what do you not like about Guadalajara? Also, could you be a bit more specific on why, in your opinion, no other big cities in Mexico compare favorably to Mexico City? 

I have to admit that every time Isla Verde writes about her life in Mexico City, I feel like she's living the life I want to live. I'm very attracted to all the cultural advantages of living there, and the weather is certainly appealing, but the ground is a bit too shaky for me!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Marishka said:


> Longford, what do you not like about Guadalajara? Also, could you be a bit more specific on why, in your opinion, no other big cities in Mexico compare favorably to Mexico City?
> 
> I have to admit that every time Isla Verde writes about her life in Mexico City, I feel like she's living the life I want to live. I'm very attracted to all the cultural advantages of living there, and the weather is certainly appealing, but the ground is a bit too shaky for me!


Earthquakes occur all over Mexico, not just in Mexico City! Anyway, after living through a few of them, mostly minor events, they don't faze me much anymore. Mexico City is an incredible place to live if you like huge cities stuffed with culture, history and good food. The key to having a happy life here is finding a nice safe neighborhood not too far from the all the things that make it a great place to live.


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> Earthquakes occur all over Mexico, not just in Mexico City!


I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me. 



Isla Verde said:


> Anyway, after living through a few of them, mostly minor events, they don't faze me much anymore.


I shouldn't be such a sissy. After all, natural disasters occur everywhere in the world--earthquakes, volcano eruptions, hurricanes, tornados, wildfires, tsunamis, floods. It's probably best to be philosophical about these things and just to go wherever your heart leads you. As a song by the Grateful Dead goes, "If the thunder don't get get you then the lightning will." 



Isla Verde said:


> Mexico City is an incredible place to live if you like huge cities stuffed with culture, history and good food. The key to having a happy life here is finding a nice safe neighborhood not too far from the all the things that make it a great place to live.


The size of the city isn't a deal breaker one way or another, but any place that is "stuffed with culture, history and good food" gets bonus points!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Marishka said:


> I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me know when you're coming down for a get-acquainted visit, and I'll be happy to show you around.


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## OnTheRoadToMexico (Jun 12, 2013)

*Earthquakes*



Marishka said:


> After all, natural disasters occur everywhere in the world--earthquakes, volcano eruptions, hurricanes, tornados, wildfires, tsunamis, floods. It's probably best to be philosophical about these things.


The whole west coast is an EQ zone, though most seem to occur from CA on down.

I grew up in CA and my DH and I still joke after watching the nightly news, with all its flooding and tornadoes, about people in the rest of the country who say, "I would NEVER live in California. You have earthquakes!"

Really?? You'd rather watch the skies fill up in terror every spring over your farmland, wondering whether this is the time it's all going to blow away, than sit on your couch while your house gently rocks back and forth for 20 seconds every few years??

They can be pretty fun, actually. EQ seem to fall into one of two categories, rockers and shakers. The rockers are pretty pleasant. I like those a lot. The shakers can be a little more scary, because you're not sure how bad they'll get, but according to the law of averages, you're unlikely to ever sustain any real damage from an EQ.

The only bad one I was ever in was the Whittier Narrows EQ. A lot of books fell off the shelf, but that was about all. But what you've probably read, is true: the aftershocks (from a truly large quake) are way worse than the original quake itself. Those'll fray your nerves to the breaking point. THOSE were what I remember from that quake.

My parents' home was damaged in the Northridge EQ, because they were right at the epicenter. Insurance put it all back together again.

This sounds like a mixed bag, but having lived on the West Coast my whole life, I can tell you: the very LAST thing you should ever bother worrying about is living in an EQ zone.


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## OnTheRoadToMexico (Jun 12, 2013)

Longford said:


> Property owners are oftentimes the victims of tenants who damage property, fail to pay rent, _paracaidistas_, etc., and are then victimized once again by a corrupt judicial system and local government officials, and subjected to demands of bribes or other extortion when they seek assistance. The requirement to have a fiador or insurance helps to minimize the risks.


Okay, thanks for the reminder. Guess I needed that. I once had a landlord who became one of my best friends, and he told me stories that just curled my hair. Hard to believe people live like that. And that was in a state where there were clear landlord protections in place.

OTOH, it's just hard to picture trying to rent from anyone who puts so many impossible hurdles in front of me to rent.

Maybe we'll get lucky, and meet a landlord who sees our gray hair and earnest nature, and trusts us to handle things properly. I already am wary of committing to more than 3 months for the first rental period, for just the reason you mentioned: Unless we live there first, we won't really know whether the house is a dog or the neighborhood is a nightmare. After that, I'm willing to sign a one year lease.

Maybe suggesting to the landlord that we place a large deposit amount in an escrow account will solve this. Do such things exist in Mexico? Without bribery to corrupt it, I mean? (Okay, you can stop laughing, now.)

I wouldn't mind contributing a large deposit to ensure his/her peace of mind, if *I* could have the peace of mind of knowing I'd get it back once everything was delivered in good condition. Because I've been screwed by landlords before, as well.

Maybe insurance does that, though....

Do you know whether it's possible to start the insurance process BEFORE one has found a place to live? It would be really classy (and a real time-saver) to introduce oneself to a potential landlord by saying, "And by the way, we're already pre-approved for rental insurance."


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> Let me know when you're coming down for a get-acquainted visit, and I'll be happy to show you around.


I would love that, Isla!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Marishka said:


> I would love that, Isla!


Send me a PM when you know for sure when you'll be arriving.


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

As a Landlord, I feel for those who are skeptical of new tenants in Mexico. 

One of my houses I now "suspect" has a meth lab inside right now but there is very little I can do about it. It is a family with 3 kids inside to boot!! They just resigned the lease in February and so I have many more months of having them there. I have a property manager that handles my houses and they insist on getting a lease from tenants. Personally, I prefer not even to have a lease. Deadbeat tenants are going to walk out of a lease regardless so I don't put much stock in it keeping someone there or making them pay if they can't or don't want to. If I do not have a lease and I have an issue I can give them 30 days notice and tell them to hit the road. This is in a state that is very pro-landlord. I can start eviction on day 6 and normally have them out in 30-45 days. Some states takes months, and I am under the impression that in Mexico it could take much longer. I hate being a landlord in the USA and I think I would hate it even more in Mexico to be honest....


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

OnTheRoadToMexico said:


> Maybe insurance does that, though....
> 
> Do you know whether it's possible to start the insurance process BEFORE one has found a place to live? It would be really classy (and a real time-saver) to introduce oneself to a potential landlord by saying, "And by the way, we're already pre-approved for rental insurance."


What type of rental insurance do you speak of? Something to do with the fiador?


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

OnTheRoadToMexico said:


> I grew up in CA and my DH and I still joke after watching the nightly news, with all its flooding and tornadoes, about people in the rest of the country who say, "I would NEVER live in California. You have earthquakes!"
> 
> Really?? You'd rather watch the skies fill up in terror every spring over your farmland, wondering whether this is the time it's all going to blow away, than sit on your couch while your house gently rocks back and forth for 20 seconds every few years??


A native Californian who was visiting a friend of mine in the Dallas area confessed to me that she had a moment of panic after booking her plane ticket to Dallas. “What if there’s a tornado?,” she worried.

The truth is, I’ve lived in this part of Texas for most of my 60 years and have never even seen a tornado, except on television. My husband spent his high school and college years in Oklahoma and says he’s never seen one, either.

While it's a good idea to know what to do in any sort of disaster, it's also good to remember that most of our fears in life never materialize.


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Lets see speaking of Natural Disasters, I have been thru several 4, 5 a 6. something earthquakes I have lived thru several Hurricanes including one that took out power for 12 days and just about destroyed the house I was in when it came thru. And just a couple of years ago we had to hide from a tornado underneath a stage at a live performance. When we came out cars were tossed about here and there. A K-mart just behind my apartments in the late 80's was flattened in Raleigh while I was only a half a mile away as the crow flies. Let me tell you that I am more terrified of tornadoes than just about anything. Living in Raleigh and Eastern NC I have seen places flattened one time too many and you have no real warning. The scare daylights out of me. Give me a good shaking any old time than to hear that horrible "we have a tornado "warning" in effect" radio sound.....


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kito1 said:


> . . . Give me a good shaking any old time than to hear that horrible "we have a tornado "warning" in effect" radio sound.....


You wouldn't say that if you had lived through the horrible 1985 earthquake in Mexico City!


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> Send me a PM when you know for sure when you'll be arriving.


I'll be arriving in about 2 1/2 years. Is it too early to start making plans now? :lol:

Actually, we're planning to come down for an exploratory trip in about a year, but I'm not sure yet what our itinerary will be. 

My one and only trip to Mexico City only lasted a week, which was not nearly long enough, so I hope at least one of my stays in the future will be for at least a month. I don't think I could ever be bored in Mexico City.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Marishka said:


> I'll be arriving in about 2 1/2 years. Is it too early to start making plans now? :lol:
> 
> Actually, we're planning to come down for an exploratory trip in about a year, but I'm not sure yet what our itinerary will be.
> 
> My one and only trip to Mexico City only lasted a week, which was not nearly long enough, so I hope at least one of my stays in the future will be for at least a month. I don't think I could ever be bored in Mexico City.


Ooops, I'd forgotten that you aren't planning to move here in the next few weeks!

Your comment about Mexico City reminded me of this:

"Why, Sir, you find no man, at all intellectual, who is willing to leave London. No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford."
— Samuel Johnson

Just substitute "Mexico City" for "London", and there you have it! Maybe we should have T-shirts made.


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Isla Verde, you are correct, the earthquakes I have been thru have been pretty minor which is probably why they do not scare me so much, when I am in a real bad one I may very well change my mind!! 

The tornadoes I have seen on the other hand have been devastating tornadoes where I witnessed death and destruction so close to you (that could have been me you tell yourself) so I guess I fear them more.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kito1 said:


> Isla Verde, you are correct, the earthquakes I have been thru have been pretty minor which is probably why they do not scare me so much, when I am in a real bad one I may very well change my mind!!
> 
> The tornadoes I have seen on the other hand have been devastating tornadoes where I witnessed death and destruction so close to you (that could have been me you tell yourself) so I guess I fear them more.


That makes sense. I wasn't here for the 1985 quake, but any of my Mexican friends who were living in the city then still think about it with horror. And when there is a quake here, even a minor one, they react much more strongly to it than I do.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

We were in Mexico City in January 86 and the scene in some areas was still that of a bad nightmare. I can see how people having survived it would be traumatized for the rest of their lives. I would never wish a good shaking because you never know if the buiding will stand or not,,


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> We were in Mexico City in January 86 and the scene in some areas was still that of a bad nightmare. I can see how people having survived it would be traumatized for the rest of their lives. I would never wish a good shaking because you never know if the buiding will stand or not,,


And the bad nightmare continued. I think that the side of Avenida Juárez facing the Alameda and the Plaza de la Solidaridad wasn't completely rebuilt for at least another ten years after that. Surprisingly, the little, somewhat shabby building I live in survived the monster quake of '85, and just wobbles a bit when quakes hit my area now (it also wobbles when large trucks come rumbling down my narrow street).


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Marishka said:


> Longford, what do you not like about Guadalajara? Also, could you be a bit more specific on why, in your opinion, no other big cities in Mexico compare favorably to Mexico City?


I said that because having lived in the D.F., the 'Big Manzana' of Mexico, every other large city seems inadequate. If I wanted to move once again to a really large city in Mexico, which GDL and Mexico City are both, I'd choose the biggest and best ... the D.F. The others are just second-best to me. Maybe if my big city experience in Mexico had first been in GDL I'd feel differently. And ... there's an energy that's present in a nation's capital which is oftentimes indescribable. Mexico City has that energy level. The only reason I'd move to GDL would be because someone offered me an insanely large amount of money to do so for work reasons.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Earthquakes occur all over Mexico, not just in Mexico City! Anyway, after living through a few of them, mostly minor events, they don't faze me much anymore. Mexico City is an incredible place to live if you like huge cities stuffed with culture, history and good food. The key to having a happy life here is finding a nice safe neighborhood not too far from the all the things that make it a great place to live.


I have to disagree a bit; earthquakes do not happen all over Mexico, just a few places are very sismic areas.
I know all the planet can be subject to quakes, but there are well known sismic areas; oaxaca, san francisco california, japan, etc
Once an earthquake strikes, it's just a matter of when not if it will happen again


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I have to disagree a bit; earthquakes do not happen all over Mexico, just a few places are very sismic areas.
> I know all the planet can be subject to quakes, but there are well known sismic areas; oaxaca, san francisco california, japan, etc
> Once an earthquake strikes, it's just a matter of when not if it will happen again


Mexicali Valley Mx. and Imperial Valley, Calif. are very active. The San Adreas fault runs through them.


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