# accurate characterization of the general security situation?



## rustydegras

Hi,
I have been reading the forum for a while, but I just now registered to create this thread. Hello everyone. My wife and I have been living in Zamalek since September and have been enjoying it very much. 

Due to some reports it sounds like the security situation has deteriorated significantly over the past few weeks. Plus, a female friend of mine was chased by a knife wielding man in Zamalek this week (on Ahmed Heshmat) and an embassy guard exposed himself to my wife in the daylight today. These second hand experiences along with all the armed robberies occurring in the last two weeks are worrying me. Is it turning into a lawless free-for-all, or am I overreacting?

What is going on? 

Thank you.


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## canuck2010

No, you are not overreacting. Everyday things are slipping a little bit more. Be careful, the 11th is going to be another big day.


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## MaidenScotland

Hi and welcome to the forum.. welcome in Egypt as we say.

I am sorry that you are feeling as if you are in a lawless society.
Crime here has increased or at least we are hearing about it now but I would still think you are as safe here as any other city in the world and you must take precautions on where you walk although Zamalek is an upscale neighbourhood you get a lot of visitors knowing there are rich pickings. 

Exposure is a way of life here.. I don't think there can be many women who have not had the joy of flash, the best thing to do is ignore it and keep on walking if it happens in the street just as you would anywhere else.
Did you report the security guard? Go to the embassy concerned and report it they will probably sack the guard but at the end of the day if they keep getting away with it they think it is acceptable.


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## CatMandoo

rustydegras said:


> Hi,
> I have been reading the forum for a while, but I just now registered to create this thread. Hello everyone. My wife and I have been living in Zamalek since September and have been enjoying it very much.
> 
> Due to some reports it sounds like the security situation has deteriorated significantly over the past few weeks. Plus, a female friend of mine was chased by a knife wielding man in Zamalek this week (on Ahmed Heshmat) and an embassy guard exposed himself to my wife in the daylight today. These second hand experiences along with all the armed robberies occurring in the last two weeks are worrying me. Is it turning into a lawless free-for-all, or am I overreacting?
> 
> What is going on?
> 
> Thank you.


Which Embassy? Did you report it?


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## marenostrum

rustydegras said:


> Hi,
> I have been reading the forum for a while, but I just now registered to create this thread. Hello everyone. My wife and I have been living in Zamalek since September and have been enjoying it very much.
> 
> Due to some reports it sounds like the security situation has deteriorated significantly over the past few weeks. Plus, a female friend of mine was chased by a knife wielding man in Zamalek this week (on Ahmed Heshmat) and an embassy guard exposed himself to my wife in the daylight today. These second hand experiences along with all the armed robberies occurring in the last two weeks are worrying me. Is it turning into a lawless free-for-all, or am I overreacting?
> 
> What is going on?
> 
> Thank you.


I think I can guess the embassy where this happened.

Also stay away from Ahmed Eshmat, there have been a few episodes there in the last three months and it would not surprise me if it is the same gang of people.


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## aykalam

Hi rusty

Welcome to the forum.

My view is that crime levels have definitely increased over the last few months. Yes, there's crime in every country but you would normally expect the police to do their job. Unfortunately I do not trust Egyptian police to even lodge a report with them


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## rustydegras

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will ask my wife about the emabssy.




marenostrum said:


> I think I can guess the embassy where this happened.
> 
> Also stay away from Ahmed Eshmat, there have been a few episodes there in the last three months and it would not surprise me if it is the same gang of people.


We live on Ahmed Heshmat. So, you know. And it always seemed like a nice street. I had not been aware of other instances, thanks for the heads up. 

I was just wondering if the string of robberies around the country might be giving potential criminals the sense that they've got a golden ticket. Or is this just coincidence coupled with a general deterioration of security?


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## rustydegras

Also, I must say, I've learned so much more about the real going-ons of Cairo (both bad and good) from this forum than from any other source. THANK YOU.


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## CatMandoo

aykalam said:


> Hi rusty
> 
> Unfortunately I do not trust Egyptian police to even lodge a report with them


I don't know about now. But I will say that several years ago a woman I know had a man expose himself to her in a taxi. We took her to the police, the next day the man was brought in, and to make a long story short, he was put away in a prison.

Now, do I agree about this type of justice system is another story, but they did do something, and immediately.


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## canuck2010

Crimes of opportunity are definitely on the rise. All we can do is prevent ourselvesfrom becoming a target. For example, don't carry a purse, bag, or laptop outside. Don't expose jewelery or watches, be aware of your surroundings, avoid walking around when it is dark, ect... Snatch and grab crimes using motorcyclces and unmarked cars is becoming very common.


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## rustydegras

I heard that all the getaway cars for the different robberies between Helwan and Hurgada had untagged cars. If you see an untagged car is that a definite red flag, or are there so many of them that aren't violent crime related that its useless to worry about spotting one. 

I mean, if I see an unmarked car should I think to myself, this situation could get dicey?


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## aykalam

CatMandoo said:


> I don't know about now. But I will say that several years ago a woman I know had a man expose himself to her in a taxi. We took her to the police, the next day the man was brought in, and to make a long story short, he was put away in a prison.
> 
> Now, do I agree about this type of justice system is another story, but they did do something, and immediately.


but that was then and this is now


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## CatMandoo

aykalam said:


> but that was then and this is now


If something like that happened to me today, I would still do the same thing as the woman I talked about and report it.


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## Musical

rustydegras said:


> I heard that all the getaway cars for the different robberies between Helwan and Hurgada had untagged cars. If you see an untagged car is that a definite red flag, or are there so many of them that aren't violent crime related that its useless to worry about spotting one.
> 
> I mean, if I see an unmarked car should I think to myself, this situation could get dicey?


Not always: a very law abiding friend bought a new car a few weeks ago and is driving it around without number plates simply because the government department that registers new cars takes a very long time... I might be wary about old cars without number plates, or vehicles bearing police plates, though!


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## marenostrum

rustydegras said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. I will ask my wife about the emabssy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We live on Ahmed Heshmat. So, you know. And it always seemed like a nice street. I had not been aware of other instances, thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I was just wondering if the string of robberies around the country might be giving potential criminals the sense that they've got a golden ticket. Or is this just coincidence coupled with a general deterioration of security?


My theory on this is that all of these criminals are the ones that escaped from the prison during the uprising.
These are organised gangs not just individual criminals. They have weapons, get away cars etc etc. These are not your one hit criminals but more like career ones. 

It will take a long time to get this scum of the streets, providing of course that the willingness to do so is there.....


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## hhaddad

canuck2010 said:


> Crimes of opportunity are definitely on the rise. All we can do is prevent ourselvesfrom becoming a target. For example, don't carry a purse, bag, or laptop outside. Don't expose jewelery or watches, be aware of your surroundings, avoid walking around when it is dark, ect... Snatch and grab crimes using motorcyclces and unmarked cars is becoming very common.


Don't forget the carjackings on the ringroad nor the taxijacking.


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## expatagogo

rustydegras said:


> I heard that all the getaway cars for the different robberies between Helwan and Hurgada had untagged cars. If you see an untagged car is that a definite red flag, or are there so many of them that aren't violent crime related that its useless to worry about spotting one.
> 
> I mean, if I see an unmarked car should I think to myself, this situation could get dicey?


If I saw an untagged car, my first thought would be paperwork is slow or there's maybe lax enforcement.

If I saw a group of men, faces covered, brandishing weapons, either getting out of or into an untagged car in the general vicinity of a bank, I'd say that would be a dicey situation.

My thoughts tend to side with Maiden's in that I don't think there's more crime, only more information and/or discussion about it.

As for men showing off their wares? That's _nothing_ new.


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## CatMandoo

I would have to politely disagree with Maiden and Expat. 
In the almost 11 years I have been here, I have never heard of any of my family or friends being victims of crime, other than theft from maids.

Since the Revolution several of them have become victims of car theft, robbery at knife point, and an attempt at a mugging.

This is truly shocking for Egypt and really, deeply saddens and frightens me.


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## hhaddad

CatMandoo said:


> I would have to politely disagree with Maiden and Expat.
> In the almost 11 years I have been here, I have never heard of any of my family or friends being victims of crime, other than theft from maids.
> 
> Since the Revolution several of them have become victims of car theft, robbery at knife point, and an attempt at a mugging.
> 
> This is truly shocking for Egypt and really, deeply saddens and frightens me.


We had our flat broken into three years ago and stuff stolen. Also I was threatened at knife point 2 years ago and they got my wallet. Also I know of others who had similar experiences with what is happening today. The police were useless we made reports which just went into the drawer with the bucksheesh.


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## MaidenScotland

I know lots of people who suffered from crime before the revolution.. only thing is no one believed you if you told them.


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## CatMandoo

We can only speak from our personal point of view on this. Since you supplied details, of course I will believe you. I have just never heard of these more violent type crimes occuring here on a daily basis.


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## expatagogo

The press didn't have as much freedom and people didn't have as much freedom to talk openly without a guy wearing a hoodie listening.

Security guards in apartment buildings aren't new, nor are locks on doors or car alarms. These types of things were here before the revolution, and it's safe to say with good reason.


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## rustydegras

These retellings of these nasty events seem to be the only way to hear about them. It is very sad, but helpful. 

I couldn't believe how safe we felt when we first got here. I mean, safer than we felt in Boston (which I LOVE). But things are changing... Maybe I just hadn't heard reports of incidences occurring in my hood throughout the fall.


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## MaidenScotland

and of course figures were manipulated to favour the advert that Egypt was relatively crime free, only pick pockets to worry about


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## CatMandoo

I'm not saying Egypt was crime free. But generally speaking I felt 100% safer here than I ever did in Orlando. Of all the Egypt forums I have read in the past 10 years, I can't recall ONE single incident reported from an Expat living here of a violent crime commited against them, and that DOES say something.

Edited to add...

Yes I did read about ONE incident involving someone run over purposely by a horse carriage in Luxor.


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## expatagogo

I thought we were talking about the security situation in general?

Or just expats?


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## Gounie

I heard a story today from a friend who said their extremely wealthy Egyptian friend had their villa broken into in Maadi whilst he was at home. He co-operated and gave them all his cash and the robbers apologised deeply but said they were desparate.


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## canuck2010

Well...at least they said sorry!


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## MaidenScotland

Friends Egyptian mother in law left her handbag in a taxi.. two days later the taxi driver tracked her down and returned the handbag with everything intact.. would not take a reward.

Expat in a taxi with her duty free asked the taxi to wait whilst she went to the ATM, when she got home she realised he had taken one of her bottles 

The above told to me this evening,


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## Whitedesert

Noticed our company safety and security manager is busy spending money to upgrade our various offices and warehousing premises, changes to entry protocols, more secure entrances, upgrsading of passive systems (CCTV etc), new routines with handling cash and directives to executives on their cars/laptops/phones etc. I dont think he is doing it just for the &^%$ of it, must be based on information, I suspect...My wife and I have agreed to re-apply our South African security levels of awareness and protocols for Cairo...might be a bit too much, and a bit sad, we loved when we believed we could de-tune it, but alas, it seems we are heading generally back to the same level of awareness protocols you had to apply back home.


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## bat

CatMandoo said:


> We can only speak from our personal point of view on this. Since you supplied details, of course I will believe you. I have just never heard of these more violent type crimes occuring here on a daily basis.


There always has been , motorcycle gangs snatching bags purses , gold etc, I had my bag snatched twice, 18 yrs ago, seen countless men expose them selves, and woman donot report rape!! That is a fact.
All the drug addicts how do they fund there habit?
I know of at least 3 foreigners murdered in Heliopolis in 20 yrs.
With the advent of shopping malls it's a bit harder to do a motorcycle snatch ( walk ways not wide enough)
And with gated communities burglrys, maybe not as common in them, as they are out side.
Don't get me stared on incest, and rape within family's , again not reported. 
Paedophiles working in nurserys, schools etc as there are no police checks.
This country has an undercurrent, that is not spoken about, because who is listening 
and who can do anything about it.
Bat


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## SHendra

I actually knew an Egyptian man who got the living daylight's beaten out of him about 4 years ago all for his wallet and phone in Alexs.

He later admitted to me that if it wasn't for the fact that it was 'obvious' that he was physically attacked he would of just told his friends and family that he must of lost his phone and wallet in a taxi or something!

Edit: And he never did report it out of fear of being laughed at/picked on for failing to defend himself!


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## bat

SHendra said:


> I actually knew an Egyptian man who got the living daylight's beaten out of him about 4 years ago all for his wallet and phone in Alexs.
> 
> He later admitted to me that if it wasn't for the fact that it was 'obvious' that he was physically attacked he would of just told his friends and family that he must of lost his phone and wallet in a taxi or something!
> 
> Edit: And he never did report it out of fear of being laughed at/picked on for failing to defend himself!


Could of been my brother in law as it happened to him in Alex and again he was ashamed , he was not man enough to have a go at them.
My friend got her bag stolen from the top of her car a few years ago in a busy street , nobody saw anything and nobody cared, the same with me in korba, nobody saw or cared, as foreigners we have to much money, and can afford to lose it
Bat


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## CatMandoo

I'm not saying and never have, that crime does not happen here. My point was (is) that it is totally out of control this past year. 

Anyone here have a car that is insured? If you do, you have probably seen your rates skyrocket these past months. Why are people now talking about how to "arm" themselves for protection? Ever hear this kind of talk, on this scale, before the revolution? Was just reading that jewelry store owners are now asking for permission from the government to have weapons inside their stores. 

Why are we hearing the term "security vacuum"? Never heard of that before the revolution.

Yes, crime happened before, but never on this level.


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## canuck2010

I just heard about a series of home invasions that happened in Degla last evening right near to CAC.


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## Sonrisa

canuck2010 said:


> I just heard about a series of home invasions that happened in Degla last evening right near to CAC.


Scary. Do you have any details about these? where the families inside their homes when this happened?


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## MaidenScotland

Sonrisa said:


> Scary. Do you have any details about these? where the families inside their homes when this happened?




I will see what I can find out for tomorrow... get that gate locked!!


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## Sonrisa

LOL I actually did that as soon as I read that post!!


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## MaidenScotland

I have noticed lately that the roads are not as busy late at night. I was quite used to seeing traffic jams at midnight on Thursday nights but now by 11pm the roads are pretty quiet. On Tuesday night we watched two weddings and both brides had their photos taken, band came and gone by 8PM!!! 
.. now are these a safety aspect? or is it the cold?


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## rustydegras

*so...*

any updates? 

Also, do you think the re-deployment of the army will cause a decrease in crime in the streets, or are they just there to squash rebellion?


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## marenostrum

rustydegras said:


> any updates?
> 
> Also, do you think the re-deployment of the army will cause a decrease in crime in the streets, or are they just there to squash rebellion?


It will not sort the increased crime issue.

As I mentioned in another thread, these are career criminals and not one hit wonder crooks.
They have automatic weapons, get away cars, are not afraid to shoot and kill etc etc. operate in teams, a professional outfit basically. A bank robbery is not easy to organise...and there seem to be a lot of them going on

IMHO these are the criminals that escaped / were allowed to escape during the uprising last year. 
It will not be easy to catch them quick providing of course that the willingness to do so is there.....


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