# Advice needed to file backdated taxes



## thebleuemu

Hello!

I became a permanent resident in the UK after marrying a UK citizen back in 2007. I've been working since then and paying my full UK taxes, however I was unaware until this year that I still need to be reporting back to the USA. 

I contacted the IRS and they advised that I need to fill in form forms 2555-EZ and 1040. However, after checking on the IRS website, it states that there is a Streamlined Filing Program for people in my situation and it mentions filling in forms 3520 or 5471 for the last 3 years and Form TD F 90-22.1 for the last 6 years. 

I’m really starting to get confused about what I actually need to fill in and I’m worried about sending in the wrong forms. Can anyone shed any light on the questions I've listed below? I've sent letters to the IRS twice now to ask for confirmation, but they haven't answered either letter. And just to confirm, I do not work for an American company, I do not own any property or assets in America – my life is entirely in the UK and I earn under the threshold for paying taxes to the states. 

1. Do I need to fill in forms 2555-EZ and 1040 dating back to 2008 or forms 3520 or 5471 for the last 3 years and Form TD F 90-22.1 for the last 6 years? 

2. Is it possible to back date using online filing, or is that only if you’re up to date with your tax returns? 

3. I’m married to a British national – he does not have any citizenship for the states. He is currently a student so he isn’t earning a wage, but a bursary. I saw on a different website that I will need to fill in the form W-7 for him to ensure that his earnings are excluded, as he isn’t an American citizen. Can you please confirm whether this is the case and if so, I don’t understand how to fill in the form 1040 as in the Filing Status section, as there is no option for being married to someone without a US passport and isn’t subject to US taxes. 

4. If we do need to complete the W-7 form, will this then be confirmed once it has been approved so that I can then move forward with competing all of my backdated forms? 

5. I’ve seen that you need to file separate forms if you have a certain amount of money held in savings here – can you please confirm the amount, which form will need to be completed and whether taxes are required to be paid on this amount? I have a very small amount of money in savings in the UK, so I need to ensure that I’m following the right process.

I'm sorry for asking so many questions, however I'm desperate to get this all cleared up asap and as a new mum, I can't afford to pay thousands of pounds to get an accountant to fill in the forms to prove that I don't owe any money.

Thanks in advance!


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## Bevdeforges

First of all, you are FAR from the first person to find themselves in this situation. Take a deep breath and let's try to get you sorted one step at a time. Anyhow - to answer your questions:



thebleuemu said:


> 1. Do I need to fill in forms 2555-EZ and 1040 dating back to 2008 or forms 3520 or 5471 for the last 3 years and Form TD F 90-22.1 for the last 6 years?


This is the official IRS statement on the Streamlined Compliance thing: U.S. Taxpayers Residing Outside the United States

Generally speaking, you'll need to fill out a 1040, a 2555 (EZ or whatever version) and a Schedule B (sometimes referred to as a 1040-B). The other two forms (3520 and 5471) are only relevant if you have certain types of investments or have ownership in a foreign corporation that is (for you) an investment rather than a way of making your living. Under the streamlined program, you only backfile for 3 years - right now, 2013, 2012 and 2011.

You will also have to backfile the FBAR forms (used to be the TD F90-22.1 but now is online only) for six years. This is not much more than a simple listing of your overseas (non-US) accounts along with the high balance for the year that you're filing (can be estimated if you can't find your bank statement). And that, only if you have foreign bank accounts totally at least $10,000.



> 2. Is it possible to back date using online filing, or is that only if you’re up to date with your tax returns?


You must file your FBARs online. But for the tax filings, you have to print them off and send them in under the Streamlined program.



> 3. I’m married to a British national – he does not have any citizenship for the states. He is currently a student so he isn’t earning a wage, but a bursary. I saw on a different website that I will need to fill in the form W-7 for him to ensure that his earnings are excluded, as he isn’t an American citizen. Can you please confirm whether this is the case and if so, I don’t understand how to fill in the form 1040 as in the Filing Status section, as there is no option for being married to someone without a US passport and isn’t subject to US taxes.


NO, no, no. Your husband is not subject to US taxation. Period. You don't need to do anything for him. You would normally file as "married, filing separately" - and it is allowable to simply indicate "NRA" (for non-resident alien, NOT National Rifle Association) in the spaces where they ask for his name and/or SSN/ITIN. This page from the IRS website should help: U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad - Filing Requirements 



> 4. If we do need to complete the W-7 form, will this then be confirmed once it has been approved so that I can then move forward with competing all of my backdated forms?


Do NOT bother with the W-7 form at this point unless you find that your husband really needs to have an ITIN. (Usually only if you plan to claim him as a "dependent" on your tax return - but for most people that's a huge waste of time and effort.)



> 5. I’ve seen that you need to file separate forms if you have a certain amount of money held in savings here – can you please confirm the amount, which form will need to be completed and whether taxes are required to be paid on this amount? I have a very small amount of money in savings in the UK, so I need to ensure that I’m following the right process.


As I said above, if your foreign accounts total $10,000 or more at any point during the year, you will have to file the FBAR forms, just to declare those accounts. The FBAR forms do not incur any sort of tax liability in and of themselves.

If you have investments and/or other financial assets that exceed $200,000 then you'll have to worry about the various FATCA forms, which may or may not involve additional taxes. I take it when you say you have "a very small amount of money" in savings that you probably don't fall into this category.

Don't be in a huge rush to get this sorted out. Unless you have some major investments or passive sources of income likely to lead to your owing US taxes, you could also consider just starting to file beginning with 2014 (i.e. for the April/June 15th deadline in 2015) and probably never suffer any adverse consequences.

If you've just been earning regular salary-type income and have, maybe, a couple hundred $$ worth of interest to your name, chances are you owe nothing. And for the income tax side of things, any penalties are based on a percentage of what you're determined to owe. Anything multiplied by 0 is still 0.

Best thing to do is to download and read through IRS Publication 54. Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad That will explain everything.
Cheers,
Bev


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## thebleuemu

Aw Bev you're a life saver! They certainly don't make the information online very straight forward! I moved away when I was 17 and my parents did all my taxes before then, so it's been quite a shock to the system!! Thanks again for all your help and for taking the time to explain everything for me!! It would've been nice for the IRS to just respond to my letters so this could've been sorted before, it's just such a frustrating system.


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## BBCWatcher

Bevdeforges said:


> ...and it is allowable to simply indicate "NRA" (for non-resident alien, NOT National Rifle Association) in the spaces where they ask for his name and/or SSN/ITIN.


No it's not. You put your spouse's name where it says name, and you put "NRA" in the SSN/ITIN space if he/she doesn't have a Social Security number, ITIN, and isn't required to.

Follow. The. Instructions.


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## Bevdeforges

BBCWatcher said:


> No it's not. You put your spouse's name where it says name, and you put "NRA" in the SSN/ITIN space if he/she doesn't have a Social Security number, ITIN, and isn't required to.
> 
> Follow. The. Instructions.


Obviously our experiences differ quite a bit.
Cheers,
Bev


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## maz57

We've been through this all before, BBC. In situations where an expat US taxpayer has a non-resident alien spouse the IRS has no right to ANY information about that spouse, even if the IRS asks for it on one form or another. That person is a citizen of a foreign country living in a foreign country and US law simply doesn't apply to them. If their only US connection is the unfortunate fact that they married a US person, that fact doesn't automatically make them the chattel of the US government.

For obvious reasons many NRA spouses are not comfortable with their personal information being handed over to the IRS. So while the FBAR instructions say such information must be disclosed, many expats simply write NRA in those spaces instead. This never causes a problem with those FBAR filings so in spite of the fact the instructions say to provide such specifics, entering NRA instead is quite definitely "allowed" and has been for a long time. Nobody ever looks at the damn things anyway.


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## BBCWatcher

If either of you -- if anyone -- can find a private IRS ruling, instructional guidance, U.S. court ruling, or other U.S. official guidance that supports your claims about what you can and cannot put on the "Spouse's Name" line, feel free to share it.

You haven't yet, I would note. Absent that evidence, one follows the IRS's instructions, period. If you want to advise filers to disobey the IRS's instructions, then _tell them they're disobeying the IRS's instructions_. Do not persist in representing your advice as consistent with the IRS's requirements.


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## Bevdeforges

Just to note, the instructions say to put the spouse's name in that blank, not that you MUST indicate the spouse's name. There is a difference between "instructions" and laws/rules.

In the various (and many) publications put out by the IRS, they define what items do and don't constitute "income" for reporting. There are various exceptions and several lists of items that are not considered income. No where I have ever found do the instructions say not to report these items, just that they aren't considered income for IRS purposes. If you should err and include an item as income that isn't considered such, I seriously doubt they are going to refigure you taxes due and send you the refund.

Similarly, they have long indicated how to obtain an ITIN for a NRA spouse, but nowhere does it say that you really don't have to do so unless you are planning on taking said spouse as a dependent or electing to file jointly for the year.

When and if the IRS decides this is an issue (for my taxes or anyone else's) I'm sure they'll be in touch.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Bevdeforges said:


> Just to note, the instructions say to put the spouse's name in that blank, not that you MUST indicate the spouse's name. There is a difference between "instructions" and laws/rules.


What the heck is going on here? Did Wesley Snipes's accountants find this forum? 

By that (ridiculous) standard your own name is optional! There are _even fewer_ specific instructions requiring your own name. (IRS Form 1040 instructions: "If you are married filing a separate return, enter your spouse's name on line 3 instead of below your name.")

OK, to rehash this (again).... 26 U.S. Code § 6721 spells out the penalties for, among other things, "any failure to include all of the information required to be shown on the return or the inclusion of incorrect information." If the IRS demands the information, and they do, it's required.

I would really appreciate it if there were fewer people -- accountants, lawyers, random Internet strangers -- misrepresenting legal and regulatory requirements. Tell me, tell others what the requirements are, truthfully and accurately. If independent, competent adults then want to violate their legal and/or regulatory requirements, leave that up to them. But it really, really isn't helping to continue to misrepresent filers' requirements here. There is absolutely no ambiguity in the instructions or in the law on this point.

And yes, Maz, the IRS absolutely has the legal authority to ask for your spouse's name. _Every_ federal court could remind you of that if you wish to pursue the matter.

But _I keep an open mind_. If anyone wants to find an IRS private ruling (even), a regulation, a federal court case, a law -- if anyone finds something that says a filer is allowed to put something else besides the name of his/her legal spouse on his/her own IRS tax filing, by all means feel free to share that information. However, unless and until you can support your argument with the facts, *stop misrepresenting the facts* about filers' requirements.


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## Bevdeforges

The real issue here is what, exactly, is "required" on your tax forms. And I'm not sure there is a definitive list for that.

Quick example: Several years ago I was told (by a tax preparer) that if you filed a return giving your name as anything different from what was on your Social Security record, the return would be rejected. At that point, I had been divorced for something like 15 or 18 years and had been quite happily filing my taxes in my "own" name (i.e. my maiden name) even though I had changed my name for the SS Administration when I got married. 

Ultimately, I jumped through the hoops to formally change my name back on my SS records, but in all that time I never heard a peep from the IRS about the discrepancy between the IRS and the SSA records. Apparently, as long as my SSN was correct, the IRS was happy. 

Since then, I've heard lots of stories about identity theft which involves someone using a stolen SSN. I tend to believe that they don't check the name against the SSA records at all. (In fact, to some extent, that type of sharing of information between departments of government is said by some to be illegal.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

There is a definitive list: the tax forms themselves.


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## Bevdeforges

BBCWatcher said:


> There is a definitive list: the tax forms themselves.


Are you saying that you MUST fill in every line of the tax forms?
Cheers,
Bev


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## maz57

Just to be crystal clear, BBC is correct: IRS instructions say to provide the spouse's name on certain lines. Logically that means such information is "required" otherwise the instructions would also say providing such information is optional. They don't, and I never said otherwise. Personally I think the IRS is so US-centric they never imagined someone would actually go to a foreign country and marry a foreigner, thereby besmirching their pure American-ness.

All I am saying is writing NRA instead of a name in those spaces has to the best of my knowledge never caused a problem with someone's filing. (That includes my own filings plus those of many people I know personally.) Therefore, as a practical matter, this is not bad advice because the IRS obviously "allows" this practice even though it is clearly not according to their instructions. Now what if the name of someone's spouse was Norma Rachael Allen? 

How about N.R. Allen smudged a little bit?

By the way, has anyone noticed the IRS is still soliciting Quiet Disclosures? Remember the December 2013 Fact Sheet? It is still alive and well on the IRS website. Go figure.


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## BBCWatcher

maz57 said:


> Personally I think the IRS is so US-centric they never imagined someone would actually go to a foreign country and marry a foreigner, thereby besmirching their pure American-ness.


Sure they did, right in the same instructions that say to write "NRA" instead of a SSN or ITIN if you're married to a non-resident alien spouse who is not required to have (and doesn't have) a SSN or ITIN.



> All I am saying is writing NRA instead of a name in those spaces has to the best of my knowledge never caused a problem with someone's filing. (That includes my own filings plus those of many people I know personally.) Therefore, as a practical matter, this is not bad advice because the IRS obviously "allows" this practice even though it is clearly not according to their instructions.


No, it's still bad advice. But first of all I must insist that we provide _accurate_ information to posters about their legal and regulatory requirements, _then let them decide whether they want to violate_ their requirements. Start with the facts, not "here's what I do."

That said, we know for a fact the IRS uses risk-based assessments -- "scoring" -- to decide whether to formally audit taxpayers or to seek further information. Is playing games with the spouse's name line likely to add to your risk score and increase your chance of an audit? "Probably," or at least it's "possible." If that's the _only_ area of IRS concern on your tax return(s) your risk score would be low (but not as low as possible), so your probability of an audit will be low (but not as low as it could be).

How lucky do you feel? 

Let adults be adults! Give them the facts, without the political or emotional baggage, and then let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

By the way, legal civil marriage is solely a government construction. If you don't like the governmental aspects of marriage, don't get married -- but do everything else married couples do, including (if you wish) having a big ceremony in a house of worship. In other words, there's a perfectly reasonable and viable way to avoid Married Filing Separately and the other governmental obligations of marriage: don't go to the government, any government, and seek their marriage paperwork. It seems very odd to me that someone would go to the government to get a marriage -- no, *demand* a marriage certificate, with both spouses' names -- then not be willing to tell the government his/her spouse's name. Yes, they may be different governments, but so what? Legal civil marriage is (nearly) universally recognized as a legal, governmental construction.

The IRS is not asking for any non-legal marital details.

Anyway, if this is the hill you want to fight over and defend, OK, your choice. Not mine, so just give me (and everyone else) the facts.


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## maz57

Ok, I give up. Disclaimer: Everyone in the world must do exactly everything the US government tells them they must do. If you don't, something bad might happen to you. Happy?

I think we've flogged this horse enough (again). Adults will make up their own minds.


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## BBCWatcher

maz57 said:


> Disclaimer: Everyone in the world must do exactly everything the US government tells them they must do. If you don't, something bad might happen to you. Happy?


No. 

Just tell people what the laws, regulations, and instructions are -- and point them to those laws, regulations, and instructions. You don't have to say "And you must obey them." That's also their decision or not.

Example: "IRS Form 1040 asks for your spouse's name. If you're filing a separate return (Married Filing Separately) the IRS asks you to put your spouse's name on Line 3 instead of near the top of the form. If your non-resident alien spouse does not have a U.S. Social Security Number (SSN) or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) and is not required to obtain one, the IRS asks you to write NRA instead of a number in the space for 'Spouse's social security number.' Refer to the IRS's instructions for further details."

Then, if you wish, "I choose not to disclose my spouse's name to the IRS."

Not a great analogy, but think of it this way: "Smoking causes cancer. I choose to smoke an average of one cigarette per month at my favorite bar." You don't have to say (unless you wish), "You must stop smoking." But smoking really does cause cancer -- it's a well established fact. More precisely, smoking increases your risk of cancer, and with more smoking comes greater risk. The IRS really does demand your spouse's name.

Interestingly (to your earlier point) the IRS specifies "spouse's first name and initial" at the top, then "Last name." That's if filing jointly. If filing separately, the IRS asks for your "spouse's...full name." So if your spouse's name is Anna Alice Anderson then if filing jointly the IRS's instructions require:

Anna A. / Anderson

and if filing separately the IRS's instructions require:

Anna Alice Anderson

If your spouse's full legal name is Cher then the IRS's instructions for joint filing are a little less clear. 

Anyway, that's my _only_ point here: let's not represent the IRS's instructions as anything other than what they are. They really are clear here, for better or worse. They really do demand your spouse's name if you're married. How people individually respond to that demand is up to them, though (in keeping with forum principles as I understand them) I think it's out of bounds to _encourage_ other people to violate laws and regulations. Note that describing what you do (if you wish) is not, in and of itself, encouragement.


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## Bevdeforges

OK, we've (yet again) flogged this poor pony to death.

:deadhorse:
Cheers,
Bev


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