# US Taxes - FBAR requirements



## TO_andrew

I moved to Canada when I was 20 years old (1989) on student visa and _did not_ know I had to file US Tax Returns or an FBAR report. 

I am married to a Canadian citizen and have three kids (all born in Canada). 

For taxes: do I just file for the last two or three years to get up to date? How do you claim child care costs if the kids are not US citizen or have SSN?

The FBAR report is confusing. Some accounts you have to report, some are exempt and the IRS website doesn't specify what is exempt. 

I have RRSP, a company pension play, RESP (family plan jointly with spouse), TFSA and an investment account. The only accounts that are over the limit are the first three. The IRS website states some jointly held accounts and registered retirement accounts are exempt.

Any help or direction to resources would be greatly appreciated.


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## Bevdeforges

OK, to get straight on your US income taxes, you normally only have to file three years back - which for you should be 2010, 2009 and 2008. You should be claiming the overseas earned income exclusion (i.e. file form 2555) to formally exclude your earned income (i.e. salary) from taxes. 

You cannot claim anything for your children unless they have social security numbers, but they are indeed US citizens, given that you are a US citizen and lived in the US for more than enough years after age 14 to pass on your US citizenship. You should go register them with the US consulate in Canada, and they can help you apply for their social security numbers.

OTOH, it's doubtful you need or would want to take childcare credit for them, assuming that you exclude your earned income. You should download IRS publication 54 from the IRS website, which will explain the tricks of filing from overseas. You need to declare all your worldwide income to the IRS. If you've paid taxes on it to the Canadian government and it's not already excluded on the form 2555, then take the foreign tax credit (form 1116).

On the FBAR forms, you must declare all foreign accounts if your foreign accounts in total exceeded $10,000 at any time during the year you're filing for. If any one of your accounts exceeds $10,000 then you are supposed to declare all of them. They try to scare you into believing that they'll fine you outrageous sums if you haven't filed your FBAR forms but I'd start out with just filing the current year (i.e. 2010) form and see if they come back to you with anything. You're supposed to file it by June 30th, but unless you have huge accounts that suggest that you're escaping US taxation in some manner, I seriously doubt they are going to harass you. The 2010 forms require far more detail than the prior year forms did, so just report the accounts you have (all of them) and assume in good faith that you've done your duty.

I don't know the Canadian retirement accounts well enough to tell you what's exempt and what's not - but if you report something that isn't required, they'll pretty much just ignore it and afterwards they can't say you were withholding something. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## TO_andrew

*thanks*

Thanks for the update. The FBAR website and a recent article in the Toronto Globe and Mail made it sound like the Treasury will come and take up to half of your account, etc if you don't file the the forms.


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## ebuddy

*some info from FBAR official*

I found writing to FBAR officials is very helpful in understanding the process. Their email is [email protected]

So far, I got some info from them that you may find useful:

FBARs have a six-year statute of limitations from the June 30th due date of the form. Currently, years 2005-2010 have open statutes.

an insurance policy with a cash value (such as a whole life insurance policy) are reportable.

RRSPs, TFSAs are reportable.


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## Peg

*Disclaimer:* I have not had any tax advice from a professional. I am solely working from my research talking to others and reading this forum and others. This post is helping me to sort out what forms I have completed... *Strongly recommend *taking the hours to read through all of the threads in this forum as that brought many items to my attention. I did all of these forms/schedules myself but it has taken a lot of time and although I’m good with numbers, Excel spreadsheets and Canadian tax returns the IRS returns were extremely confusing… If I had spare cash I would have gladly paid somebody to complete them. I also had to do mine twice due to mistakes with exchange rate and treatment of RESP. Will be putting each year in it’s own envelope (no staples) and then putting all of the envelopes into one package to FedEx to the IRS and the FBARs to wherever they go.

I do not like doing this but need to be able to travel to the USA stress-free. In November, I will be renouncing my US citizenship.

IRS wants the average exchange rate used - Yearly Average Currency Exchange Rates whereas the FBAR want the highest balance in the year (used my quarterly statements) but the exchange rate at the end of the year but the link provided in their instructions is not working for me.

Most of these forms can be saved as PDF files. I have also backed them up since there is a lot of work on them! I started by having a paper party with the family to sort all of the financial accounts into their own pile and into chronological order. My spouse also had a spreadsheet with the quarterly data.

Link to IRS site with 
Prior Year Forms, Instructions and Publications

Personally, I had earned income, RRSP withdrawal, EI income, self-employment income, tuition for myself, interest income and phantom capital gains. In the 5 years, I never owed any income tax to the IRS – only Self-Employment Tax because I never paid CPP on my piddly self-employment earnings (it was a hobby that had income). 

Forms and Schedules I used:

1040 – Individual Income Tax Return
For Employment Insurance – I read that I could deduct my payments for the year from the income received.

Schedule B - for nominal investment income but at the bottom you tick it to say you have off-shore Financial accounts. (yes, Canada is "off-shore")

8891 - declares RRSPs to be tax deferred; do each year; one for each RRSP.

Schedule D - Capital gains - used for phantom RESP gains since the US gov does not recognize the Canadian tax-deferral of RESPs. I included the Cdn contribution to the RESP as part of the gain. 

1116 - Foreign Tax Credit (when I had income not included in the Foreign Income exclusion the 1116 was easier for all income)

schedule C-EZ for Self-employment earnings

Schedule SE - Self-Employment tax

8863 - educational credits (tuition)

2555 or 2555-EZ - foreign earned income exclusion (the EZ is shorter if you meet the criteria)

I do not have a TFSA and no idea what needs to be done for those accounts.

separate from IRS:

*FBAR*  : TD F 90-22.1
- once your combined investments exceed $10,000 in any year, you must report ALL financial accounts for that year which for me included RRSP, RESP, bank account, signing authority for volunteer roles (e.g., PTA), personal line of credit (it had a credit balance). For FBAR am proceeding on the basis that ANY account with money in it is reportable.
- most years I had the same accounts so I used the same form each year and just changed the year and the balances and saved a new file.
- I picked the highest quarterly balance for each account even if different quarters then used end of year exchange rate.

If anyone who has already done this sees that I missed something please share!


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## Peg

TO_andrew said:


> I am married to a Canadian citizen and have three kids (all born in Canada).
> 
> ... How do you claim child care costs if the kids are not US citizen or have SSN?


Most years, after using the foreign income exclusion or the foreign tax credit (depended on the year) I only needed part of the standard deductions (line 40 and 42 on the 104) to offset the phantom RESP gain. Otherwise, my Canadian taxes were higher than the US taxes. I never needed the Child care or housing credit. (did have the education credit one year but turned out didn't need it after all)


Your children are likely considered US citizens: Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad

from that link:
*Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock* A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship. 

.... 

If that is the case, many points to consider when deciding whether you/they want to keep US citizenship or not.


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## Peg

TO_andrew said:


> Thanks for the update. The FBAR website and a recent article in the Toronto Globe and Mail made it sound like the Treasury will come and take up to half of your account, etc if you don't file the the forms.


My stress level went down considerably when I stopped reading those articles and concentrated on the knowledge in this forum.

In the unlikely chance that the US gov penalizes me for not filing forms I did not know existed, the Canada Revenue Agency will not collect for them (CRA would help collect taxes owing to the IRS). I can choose not to go to the USA because the only other way they can collect is by taking me to court and I don't have enough money to make it worth their while. I am confident (well, today anyway...) that they won't penalize me. And if they do I will complain loudly and everywhere!


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## Vangrrl

Peg said:


> *FBAR*  : TD F 90-22.1
> - once your combined investments exceed $10,000 in any year, you must report ALL financial accounts for that year which for me included RRSP, RESP, bank account,* signing authority for volunteer roles (e.g., PTA)*, personal line of credit (it had a credit balance). For FBAR am proceeding on the basis that ANY account with money in it is reportable.
> - most years I had the same accounts so I used the same form each year and just changed the year and the balances and saved a new file.
> - I picked the highest quarterly balance for each account even if different quarters then used end of year exchange rate.
> 
> If anyone who has already done this sees that I missed something please share!


I just wanted to comment on the bolded. The most recent fbar form (update Mar 2011) clearly states that if you are a US person living outside the US and you are an employee of a corporation located outside the US for which you have signatory authority but no financial interest, then *you only report the name/address of your employer*.

This got me out of having to report any details of my husband's business (for which I am the bookkeeper and he is Canadian). I would think this would apply also you are the secretary for your condo strata or a volunteer organization that you would NOT be reporting their accounts or balances to the IRS.

I also didn't report any line of credit accounts, only those accounts with positive balances. I didn't see anything specifically about this in the instructions.


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## Peg

Vangrrl said:


> I would think this would apply also you are the secretary for your condo strata or a volunteer organization that you would NOT be reporting their accounts or balances to the IRS.
> 
> I also didn't report any line of credit accounts, only those accounts with positive balances. I didn't see anything specifically about this in the instructions.


Thanks for that info - I'll try emailing [email protected] which ebuddy provided.

This appears to answer the line of credit with a positive balance from FAQs Regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - Financial Accounts 
Q. Is an FBAR required if the account generates neither interest nor dividend income?
A. Yes, an FBAR must be filed whether or not the foreign account generates any income.


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## Vangrrl

Peg said:


> Thanks for that info - I'll try emailing [email protected] which ebuddy provided.
> 
> This appears to answer the line of credit with a positive balance from FAQs Regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - Financial Accounts
> Q. Is an FBAR required if the account generates neither interest nor dividend income?
> A. Yes, an FBAR must be filed whether or not the foreign account generates any income.


I WISH it were only accounts that generate interest! I don't think I would have include any of my accounts right now LOL.


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## Vangrrl

TO_andrew said:


> I moved to Canada when I was 20 years old (1989) on student visa and _did not_ know I had to file US Tax Returns or an FBAR report.
> 
> I am married to a Canadian citizen and have three kids (all born in Canada).
> 
> For taxes: do I just file for the last two or three years to get up to date? How do you claim child care costs if the kids are not US citizen or have SSN?
> 
> The FBAR report is confusing. Some accounts you have to report, some are exempt and the IRS website doesn't specify what is exempt.
> 
> I have RRSP, a company pension play, RESP (family plan jointly with spouse), TFSA and an investment account. The only accounts that are over the limit are the first three. The IRS website states some jointly held accounts and registered retirement accounts are exempt.
> 
> Any help or direction to resources would be greatly appreciated.


I think the "exemption" of accounts only come into play if the account is already being reported by another US citizen (ie. if you do the books for a US corporation abroad and they are already reporting the account). You can safely assume that none of your accounts are exempt from reporting.


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## Peg

And if we could offset mortages and lines of credit from the investment balance I would have really easy FBARs!


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## Cafreeb12

Peg said:


> And if we could offset mortages and lines of credit from the investment balance I would have really easy FBARs!



None of my accounts met the requirement to file until last year so I can only send in the one FBAR then file them going forward?? If I do that won't it appear I didn't file on purpose. As I said in another thread the only reason that one account met the requirement was that my husband let some money pass through there one day to pay off a debt from another account I have zero access to* Inheritance to him by his mother who stated in her will no spouses were to share the inheritance* I did not share it, he just paid a medical debt in our joint that year. I'm afraid if I only file the one they'll be suspicious. Next year I would also be required to file one. Peg, I'm like you. I want done with this mess once and for all. I don't know about the taxes either since I can't take a "earned income" credit! I'm filing a bunch of zeros, I had no income! My husband files in Canada as a Canadian.


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## Peg

Cafreeb12 said:


> None of my accounts met the requirement to file until last year so I can only send in the one FBAR then file them going forward?? If I do that won't it appear I didn't file on purpose. ... I'm afraid if I only file the one they'll be suspicious.


You did not have the accounts totalling $10k so did not have to file - no deception. Not that they would read it, but you could attach a note to that first FBAR. 

Isn't it ironic reading the care many of us are taking with these forms that the US gov is labelling us as Cheats?!?


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## Cafreeb12

Peg said:


> You did not have the accounts totalling $10k so did not have to file - no deception. Not that they would read it, but you could attach a note to that first FBAR.
> 
> Isn't it ironic reading the care many of us are taking with these forms that the US gov is labelling us as Cheats?!?



I'm taking such care out of fear and that's one of my reasons for wanting to renounce. No country should put law abiding people into this sort of fear. Fear of loss of income they can ill afford, fear of fines, fear of penalties. All for having done nothing wrong and no money owing. I really don't feel I have a choice. Even though renouncing is not something I would have ever chosen otherwise. I'm pretty resentful about this due to my families participation, history of standing up and doing good in the U.S. Now suddenly I'm under suspicion and my family is at risk for losing income not even made in the U.S. through fines and penalties. One day someone will look at the damage this legislation caused and do something to change it. IN the mean time we're caught in this and they won't be able to fix what happened here. I don't live in the land of nothing to do all day so having to make trips to Ottawa and pay out money we don't have to sort it all, not to mention the stress of it, is not a small thing to me at all.


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## Peg

Cafreeb12 said:


> I don't live in the land of nothing to do all day so having to make trips to Ottawa and pay out money we don't have to sort it all, not to mention the stress of it, is not a small thing to me at all.


I agree! I have to travel from Winnipeg to Calgary - 1,300 kms to renounce.

Since I don't have spare thousands lying around I am doing all of my own returns.


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## Cafreeb12

Peg said:


> I agree! I have to travel from Winnipeg to Calgary - 1,300 kms to renounce.
> 
> Since I don't have spare thousands lying around I am doing all of my own returns.


Yes, and "looking forward" to this every single year never knowing what they might "change" in the future is a daunting prospect. I have lupus and RA, it's hard now to travel and do some things. I cannot imagine putting up with this when I would owe zero taxes, at eighty years old or so. There's no option here for me that makes any sense but, to renounce. My family in the U.S. are going to have a fit but, there's just nothing to be done about this.


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## Vangrrl

Cafreeb12 said:


> None of my accounts met the requirement to file until last year so I can only send in the one FBAR then file them going forward?? If I do that won't it appear I didn't file on purpose. As I said in another thread the only reason that one account met the requirement was that my husband let some money pass through there one day to pay off a debt from another account I have zero access to* Inheritance to him by his mother who stated in her will no spouses were to share the inheritance* I did not share it, he just paid a medical debt in our joint that year. I'm afraid if I only file the one they'll be suspicious. Next year I would also be required to file one. Peg, I'm like you. I want done with this mess once and for all. I don't know about the taxes either since I can't take a "earned income" credit! I'm filing a bunch of zeros, I had no income! My husband files in Canada as a Canadian.


Hi Cafreeb. I just have to ask because I might be misunderstanding: if you have no income and you have accounts that are less than $10,000 (so presumably not generating a ton of interest), what is so complicated about your tax return? Shouldn't it be really simple? Why do you need to pay an accountant to file them?


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## Cafreeb12

Vangrrl said:


> Hi Cafreeb. I just have to ask because I might be misunderstanding: if you have no income and you have accounts that are less than $10,000 (so presumably not generating a ton of interest), what is so complicated about your tax return? Shouldn't it be really simple? Why do you need to pay an accountant to file them?


I would have had one account last year when my husband let some money from his mothers estate pass through our joint account. NEXT year I have a settlement from my mother's estate including an IRA which will be complicated. And maybe I am just thick but, reading those forms had me cross eyed. Since I had no income but, my Canadian husband did and I have signing authority I am essentially reporting on his income in Canada as a Canadian citizen. I don't want to get anything "wrong" on the FBAR or other forms because A.) I am renouncing B.) one of my forms is late since I did not know about having to file it for 2010, the first year I would have qualified to file. and C.) With the amount I will report next year it's going to look odd, not having been required before that and now suddenly I have a much larger amount to report. I am confused about some of the info on those forms as all get out and want to cross all "ts" and dot all "I's" so I can cleanly renounce.

Further, in the future I want to be sure I am clear and free so my son isn't affected when I die and leave him whatever my husband has left me. 

I guess using an accountant is a way to make sure everything is correct since I do not understand part of that FBAR or the other forms either in certain instances. Also, for fear of penalty on 2010, I don't want to have made a mistake on the form. We cannot afford for me to have done so and owe ten thousand dollars or more.


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## Guest

Vangrrl said:


> I just wanted to comment on the bolded. The most recent fbar form (update Mar 2011) clearly states that if you are a US person living outside the US and you are an employee of a corporation located outside the US for which you have signatory authority but no financial interest, then *you only report the name/address of your employer*.
> 
> This got me out of having to report any details of my husband's business (for which I am the bookkeeper and he is Canadian). I would think this would apply also you are the secretary for your condo strata or a volunteer organization that you would NOT be reporting their accounts or balances to the IRS.
> 
> I also didn't report any line of credit accounts, only those accounts with positive balances. I didn't see anything specifically about this in the instructions.


Uh-oh, I think I missed something. I am the bookkeeper for my husband's company but I interpreted the FBAR requirement as applying only to accounts (which seems different to me than an actual company). Any chance I could avoid this since technically I am a sub-contractor, rather than an employee? I would be reluctant to give his name (silly but...) as I find it outrageous that I should have to list his bank accounts, nevermind his company. He is CDN. I simply listed "Spouse" on the line about joint owner. I also am on the Management Committee (volunteer) for a charitable organization where I can sign cheques. Do I have to include this? I've been approached to take on Treasurer for the national board of this group...would I also have to include this if I accept? TIA, any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Guest

Cafreeb12 said:


> I would have had one account last year when my husband let some money from his mothers estate pass through our joint account. NEXT year I have a settlement from my mother's estate including an IRA which will be complicated. And maybe I am just thick but, reading those forms had me cross eyed. Since I had no income but, my Canadian husband did and I have signing authority I am essentially reporting on his income in Canada as a Canadian citizen. I don't want to get anything "wrong" on the FBAR or other forms because A.) I am renouncing B.) one of my forms is late since I did not know about having to file it for 2010, the first year I would have qualified to file. and C.) With the amount I will report next year it's going to look odd, not having been required before that and now suddenly I have a much larger amount to report. I am confused about some of the info on those forms as all get out and want to cross all "ts" and dot all "I's" so I can cleanly renounce.
> 
> Further, in the future I want to be sure I am clear and free so my son isn't affected when I die and leave him whatever my husband has left me.
> 
> I guess using an accountant is a way to make sure everything is correct since I do not understand part of that FBAR or the other forms either in certain instances. Also, for fear of penalty on 2010, I don't want to have made a mistake on the form. We cannot afford for me to have done so and owe ten thousand dollars or more.


As far as your Mom's IRA and estate go, my Dad had one IRA that he had not named my brothers, sister and I as beneficiaries. What they did was split it up and it remained in the US, so no problem for the FBAR. I have exactly the same problem as I received my inheritance last November- a sudden, large rise in the amount of an account. I've been advised to explain that it is a matter of an inheritance (so no taxes), so it should not pose a problem on the FBAR since it will be reported on time nor should there be any tax problems. My sister is a CPA and she is going to write the letter for me, would be happy to share it with you. 

I can understand why you are considering renouncing in order to protect your son since he is not a dual citizen. If you think you could stand any more paperwork, he probably does qualify for US citizenship. The other option is that if he would not normally have a large income, it's unlikely he would actually have to pay tax but unless things change, he'd be stuck doing FBARs, etc. I pretty well have to renounce since my husband, would have the same problem and he could end up owing tax as well.


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## Vangrrl

nobledreamer said:


> Uh-oh, I think I missed something. I am the bookkeeper for my husband's company but I interpreted the FBAR requirement as applying only to accounts (which seems different to me than an actual company). Any chance I could avoid this since technically I am a sub-contractor, rather than an employee? I would be reluctant to give his name (silly but...) as I find it outrageous that I should have to list his bank accounts, nevermind his company. He is CDN. I simply listed "Spouse" on the line about joint owner. I also am on the Management Committee (volunteer) for a charitable organization where I can sign cheques. Do I have to include this? I've been approached to take on Treasurer for the national board of this group...would I also have to include this if I accept? TIA, any help is greatly appreciated.


I am by no means an expert on fbars! But my reasoning was that I want my fbar disclosure to match up with whatever my bank may be required to report about me under FATCA.

By "bookkeeper" I meant that I write cheques/do payroll for my my husband's company. My name appears on the bank documents for my husband's company, listing me as a signatory. So I take that to mean that if and when FATCA comes into effect, the bank will disclose my involvement in his company. So I included his company (name and address) and my position (bookkeeper) on my fbar but didn't include any financial info.

If you don't sign cheques for your husband's company, then you don't list it on your fbar.

I don't think I would bother listing the charity even if you have signing authority, especially if you have never told them that you are American (so their account is being flagged anyways). But if you want to be safe then list the Name of the Charity and your position as Treasurer, with no financial info.

I do like your idea of just writing "spouse" for any joint accounts! I wrote my husband's name but really it shouldn't mean anything to them as he has no SSN. I might just write "spouse" next year though.

I'm working on the assumption at this point that the thousands + of us that are submitting late fbars and owe no taxes are not going to be penalized. So I'm putting out the information as honestly as I can, without volunteering more into than I need to!


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## Vangrrl

nobledreamer said:


> As far as your Mom's IRA and estate go, my Dad had one IRA that he had not named my brothers, sister and I as beneficiaries. What they did was split it up and it remained in the US, so no problem for the FBAR. I have exactly the same problem as I received my inheritance last November- a sudden, large rise in the amount of an account. I've been advised to explain that it is a matter of an inheritance (so no taxes), so it should not pose a problem on the FBAR since it will be reported on time nor should there be any tax problems. My sister is a CPA and she is going to write the letter for me, would be happy to share it with you.


Is the inheritance from a non-US source? If so there is a form to report that (its not taxable). 

I honestly don't think the amount in your accounts is going to matter. If you had a $1M account and no reported income, then yeah, maybe it would look sketchy. But considering that we don't report our mortgages or debts, its not reasonable to look at only the positive balance accounts and assume you have any idea of what the person's finances look like.


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## Cafreeb12

nobledreamer said:


> As far as your Mom's IRA and estate go, my Dad had one IRA that he had not named my brothers, sister and I as beneficiaries. What they did was split it up and it remained in the US, so no problem for the FBAR. I have exactly the same problem as I received my inheritance last November- a sudden, large rise in the amount of an account. I've been advised to explain that it is a matter of an inheritance (so no taxes), so it should not pose a problem on the FBAR since it will be reported on time nor should there be any tax problems. My sister is a CPA and she is going to write the letter for me, would be happy to share it with you.
> 
> I can understand why you are considering renouncing in order to protect your son since he is not a dual citizen. If you think you could stand any more paperwork, he probably does qualify for US citizenship. The other option is that if he would not normally have a large income, it's unlikely he would actually have to pay tax but unless things change, he'd be stuck doing FBARs, etc. I pretty well have to renounce since my husband, would have the same problem and he could end up owing tax as well.



I see we are in the same situation. My son has disabilities he struggles with. I really don't want to have to put this situation on him after I am gone. Also, I am finding out just now that yes, he probably is a citizen even though I never registered him as such. He doesn't want U.S. citizenship! When he was born I read what was required and you had to file and register him. I did not and left the decision up to him after the age of 18 but, he knew already much younger than that, that he did not want dual. So here he is in this mess. He is considering going to school in another country where there is a program not offered here that he is interested in and that can and will meet his needs. Now that's going to complicate things for him even more with regard to filing taxes and papers. Every complication makes it more expensive. 

I am sorry for your loss. I know dealing with this in a year in which you've had a loss is so difficult. We've had five family members pass away including both my mother and my husbands mother in the last year. My mother was in particular very hard and unexpected just this last Feb. in the meanwhile I've been going back and forth between here and Oklahoma, *not a short trip* to help settle her affairs. When that finally starts to settle except for the IRA I find out about all this. We sold her home in August, the "deadline" and I wasn't here at all. I was extremely busy getting her home empty for the new owners and then ended up "late" to file. I would very, very much appreciate a copy of the letter. As I understand it there are taxes on some inheritance. Especially the IRA but, I will just have to figure that all out later. A copy of the letter would be most helpful to me. I am going to see an accountant with H and R Block *about all I can do right now* on Friday. Fingers Crossed that they know what they are doing in this situation....I am worried about the sharp "rise" in income for the one year though it wasn't much. I hate to end up losing it in penalties and we needed it to pay of debt for treatments my son had.


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## Guest

Cafreeb12 said:


> I see we are in the same situation. My son has disabilities he struggles with. I really don't want to have to put this situation on him after I am gone. Also, I am finding out just now that yes, he probably is a citizen even though I never registered him as such. He doesn't want U.S. citizenship! When he was born I read what was required and you had to file and register him. I did not and left the decision up to him after the age of 18 but, he knew already much younger than that, that he did not want dual. So here he is in this mess. He is considering going to school in another country where there is a program not offered here that he is interested in and that can and will meet his needs. Now that's going to complicate things for him even more with regard to filing taxes and papers. Every complication makes it more expensive.
> 
> I am sorry for your loss. I know dealing with this in a year in which you've had a loss is so difficult. We've had five family members pass away including both my mother and my husbands mother in the last year. My mother was in particular very hard and unexpected just this last Feb. in the meanwhile I've been going back and forth between here and Oklahoma, *not a short trip* to help settle her affairs. When that finally starts to settle except for the IRA I find out about all this. We sold her home in August, the "deadline" and I wasn't here at all. I was extremely busy getting her home empty for the new owners and then ended up "late" to file. I would very, very much appreciate a copy of the letter. As I understand it there are taxes on some inheritance. Especially the IRA but, I will just have to figure that all out later. A copy of the letter would be most helpful to me. I am going to see an accountant with H and R Block *about all I can do right now* on Friday. Fingers Crossed that they know what they are doing in this situation....I am worried about the sharp "rise" in income for the one year though it wasn't much. I hate to end up losing it in penalties and we needed it to pay of debt for treatments my son had.


Somehow I missed the last few posts in this thread......I cannot imagine losing 5 family members in the last year......It really is difficult, so final and so many things left unsaid. My sister has told me numerous times (as has my CDN accountant) that there are no taxes on inheritance. The IRA is not taxed, only the distribution that you will be required to take each year. As soon as I am totally finished with my end of the letter, I'll incorporate and send you, ok? Like you, I am totally worried that the inheritance will be eaten up by FBAR penalties.........


----------



## Guest

Vangrrl said:


> Is the inheritance from a non-US source? If so there is a form to report that (its not taxable).
> 
> I honestly don't think the amount in your accounts is going to matter. If you had a $1M account and no reported income, then yeah, maybe it would look sketchy. But considering that we don't report our mortgages or debts, its not reasonable to look at only the positive balance accounts and assume you have any idea of what the person's finances look like.


Sorry, I missed several of the last posts in this thread........no, it's ALL US money. An IRA and an annuity remain in the States and the rest is here, after an unsuccessful attempt to open an account to keep it there since the exchange rate was so awful............Thanks, this is a very good point (assuming ideas about a person's finances after looking at positive balance accts...)....they've really got us
unnerved, eh? At least me, anyhow........


----------



## Guest

Vangrrl said:


> I am by no means an expert on fbars! But my reasoning was that I want my fbar disclosure to match up with whatever my bank may be required to report about me under FATCA.
> 
> By "bookkeeper" I meant that I write cheques/do payroll for my my husband's company. My name appears on the bank documents for my husband's company, listing me as a signatory. So I take that to mean that if and when FATCA comes into effect, the bank will disclose my involvement in his company. So I included his company (name and address) and my position (bookkeeper) on my fbar but didn't include any financial info.
> 
> If you don't sign cheques for your husband's company, then you don't list it on your fbar.
> 
> I don't think I would bother listing the charity even if you have signing authority, especially if you have never told them that you are American (so their account is being flagged anyways). But if you want to be safe then list the Name of the Charity and your position as Treasurer, with no financial info.
> 
> I do like your idea of just writing "spouse" for any joint accounts! I wrote my husband's name but really it shouldn't mean anything to them as he has no SSN. I might just write "spouse" next year though.
> 
> I'm working on the assumption at this point that the thousands + of us that are submitting late fbars and owe no taxes are not going to be penalized. So I'm putting out the information as honestly as I can, without volunteering more into than I need to!


Thanks for this! Relief about the company......my accountant says it is not required to report the charity....a lot of confusing info going around as I read thru the posts, it seems some expats are reporting their volunteer work....they do know that I am American but I don't think they would worry about it, it would be me...I already feel "guilty" that my husband is dragged into this and my son, don't want to pass it on to anyone else.........

I also wrote, in the space for taxpayer identification number, each and every time, "not a US citizen, person or entity" - hope they get the idea


----------



## Cafreeb12

nobledreamer said:


> Somehow I missed the last few posts in this thread......I cannot imagine losing 5 family members in the last year......It really is difficult, so final and so many things left unsaid. My sister has told me numerous times (as has my CDN accountant) that there are no taxes on inheritance. The IRA is not taxed, only the distribution that you will be required to take each year. As soon as I am totally finished with my end of the letter, I'll incorporate and send you, ok? Like you, I am totally worried that the inheritance will be eaten up by FBAR penalties.........



Thanks you. Yes, this has been a hell of a year if I do say so myself and I was also in the hospital twice myself. Hence my not finding out about this mess until past the deadline to file the paperwork. It's all a bit overwhelming really to be plunged right into this and renouncing when I'm still settling my mother's affairs. We'll have to cash out the IRA as it is being split three ways and I certainly cannot and won't leave any assets there. I know it will get hit big time but, I cannot do much about that. The rest of what I got for inheritance is what I'm worried about. We really need that money. It's not even that much over all..last chance for us to pay off some medical debt. And we're no spring chickens. That would be great if you could copy me your letter!

Also, if anyone wants my email addy, I do not mind sharing it. [email protected].


----------



## Guest

Cafreeb12 said:


> Thanks you. Yes, this has been a hell of a year if I do say so myself and I was also in the hospital twice myself. Hence my not finding out about this mess until past the deadline to file the paperwork. It's all a bit overwhelming really to be plunged right into this and renouncing when I'm still settling my mother's affairs. We'll have to cash out the IRA as it is being split three ways and I certainly cannot and won't leave any assets there. I know it will get hit big time but, I cannot do much about that. The rest of what I got for inheritance is what I'm worried about. We really need that money. It's not even that much over all..last chance for us to pay off some medical debt. And we're no spring chickens. That would be great if you could copy me your letter!
> 
> Also, if anyone wants my email addy, I do not mind sharing it. [email protected].


Yes, now I see about tax on your IRA. After I thought about it, I need to move my IRA and the annuity since I am planning on renouncing ASAP. It's probably better to pay the tax than have them seize it for not being compliant, etc. All this stress must not be very helpful for your RA and lupus...Hope you have some ways to relax and regenerate. I'll send the draft - it's not earthshaking but my sis says she always uses some of these phrases and has never had anyone who was penalized afterwards....


----------



## Cafreeb12

nobledreamer said:


> Yes, now I see about tax on your IRA. After I thought about it, I need to move my IRA and the annuity since I am planning on renouncing ASAP. It's probably better to pay the tax than have them seize it for not being compliant, etc. All this stress must not be very helpful for your RA and lupus...Hope you have some ways to relax and regenerate. I'll send the draft - it's not earthshaking but my sis says she always uses some of these phrases and has never had anyone who was penalized afterwards....


Thanks I really appreciate that.


----------



## rivka88

*general observation*



Cafreeb12 said:


> Thanks I really appreciate that.


from reading many postings on this and other sites. It seems the US is using the tax code to compel non resident citizens to conduct economic espionage against family members and business partners


----------



## Ladyhawk

rivka88 said:


> from reading many postings on this and other sites. It seems the US is using the tax code to compel non resident citizens to conduct economic espionage against family members and business partners


That's exactly the idea behind the OVDI programs and the FBARs, and FATCA I bet. You have to mention anyone with whom you have joint accounts, or any account (like a business account) on which you have signing authority. This is how the IRS is expanding its search for tax cheats. Though why they think the DIShonest ones will comply......


----------



## Peg

rivka88 said:


> from reading many postings on this and other sites. It seems the US is using the tax code to compel non resident citizens to conduct economic espionage against family members and business partners


On my FBARs, I am saying "Non-resident Spouse" as joint account holder. 

For the Organizations that I was a signing authority I am just saying "School PTA", "Volleyball Team" etc. The one PTA that I am on now has given me the okay to disclose the name and information -- the Administrator confirmed it with the School District's top financial person --- philosophy is that since it is a charitable organization, all of the information is sent to the Canada Revenue Agency anyway. If needed, I would go back to the other organizations to ask for the same 'clearance'.

I am complying but giving as little information as I possibly can! And then once my final FBAR is done this month (after my renunciation) then I will be changing most of my accounts!


----------



## Guest

Peg said:


> On my FBARs, I am saying "Non-resident Spouse" as joint account holder.
> 
> For the Organizations that I was a signing authority I am just saying "School PTA", "Volleyball Team" etc. The one PTA that I am on now has given me the okay to disclose the name and information -- the Administrator confirmed it with the School District's top financial person --- philosophy is that since it is a charitable organization, all of the information is sent to the Canada Revenue Agency anyway. If needed, I would go back to the other organizations to ask for the same 'clearance'.
> 
> I am complying but giving as little information as I possibly can! And then once my final FBAR is done this month (after my renunciation) then I will be changing most of my accounts!


On my FBARS (not yet sent) I put "Spouse" and then where they asked for the tax ID no I put "not an American citizen, person, nor entity") each and every time as in "it's none of your bloody business"...

Peg, I asked my accountant if I had to include the charity I volunteer for and she said I did not, because, while I do have signing authority, I don't have any financial interest in the organization....I am curious- is there some difference between your situation and mine that means you must do this? We also file an information return with CRA and I really don't see how your organization is required to do this.....I just don't understand unless I am really missing something


----------



## Cafreeb12

rivka88 said:


> from reading many postings on this and other sites. It seems the US is using the tax code to compel non resident citizens to conduct economic espionage against family members and business partners


True, which is the main objection to it. It's not even really that to me it's that the family members are foreign and have never been American in many cases. This business of having to report any account the American has signing rights on whether that person made a red cent of the money in the account or not.


----------



## Peg

nobledreamer said:


> On my FBARS (not yet sent) I put "Spouse" and then where they asked for the tax ID no I put "not an American citizen, person, nor entity") each and every time as in "it's none of your bloody business"...
> 
> Peg, I asked my accountant if I had to include the charity I volunteer for and she said I did not, because, while I do have signing authority, I don't have any financial interest in the organization....I am curious- is there some difference between your situation and mine that means you must do this? We also file an information return with CRA and I really don't see how your organization is required to do this.....I just don't understand unless I am really missing something




Nobledreamer - that is great to hear that --- in all of the reading of forms, instructions etc I thought that I had to report even if I did not have a financial interest. I am choosing not to talk to an accountant. We'll see how it works...


----------



## Bevdeforges

Peg said:


> Nobledreamer - that is great to hear that --- in all of the reading of forms, instructions etc I thought that I had to report even if I did not have a financial interest. I am choosing not to talk to an accountant. We'll see how it works...


If you read the instructions for the form, they have a rather peculiar definition of "having a financial interest" in a bank account. Almost the opposite of what I would consider the term means.... but that's the IRS for you.

I think your approach is a good one. I sign the checks for our company account and for years I just left the "taxpayer i.d. number" section blank because our company is a French entity with no US ties. One year, I got a letter from the Treasury Department asking for the taxpayer i.d. number and I replied like you did "this is a French company and therefore has no US taxpayer i.d. number." Since then, I have put "n/a" in the space.

For DH (on the income tax forms, where I file as married, filing separately), I just put "NRA" (for "non-resident alien") where they ask for spouse's full name and SS number. That has never been questioned. If I had joint accounts with my husband (which I don't) I think I'd probably report them as you're doing.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Peg

nobledreamer said:


> On my FBARS (not yet sent) I put "Spouse" and then where they asked for the tax ID no I put "not an American citizen, person, nor entity") each and every time as in "it's none of your bloody business"...
> 
> Peg, I asked my accountant if I had to include the charity I volunteer for and she said I did not, because, while I do have signing authority, I don't have any financial interest in the organization....I am curious- is there some difference between your situation and mine that means you must do this? We also file an information return with CRA and I really don't see how your organization is required to do this.....I just don't understand unless I am really missing something


I just re-read the FBAR instructions - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf particularly page 6, last section regarding Exceptions for reporting Signing Authority accounts with no financial interest. There are 6 exceptions and none of my 4 volunteer roles fit into those categories and therefore I will be including them. For 3 of those roles I do not have access to the information as it was a few years ago.


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## Peg

Q. Can cumulative FBAR penalties exceed the amount in a taxpayer's foreign accounts?
A. Yes, under the penalty provisions found in 31 U.S.C. 5314(a)(5), it is possible to assert civil penalties for FBAR violations in amounts that exceed the balance in the foreign financial account.

That is from: FAQs Regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - Filing Requirements

That literally makes me sick to my stomach. Now back to actually completing my FBARs...


----------



## Mona Lisa76

Though I resent it, I would argue that it's safer to over-report than under-report my various accounts which is why I'm also going to be listing my travel card and pre-paid cell phone sims because they have cash balances and are thus to my mind, foreign financial accounts. Ditto with my Paypal and Alertpay accounts since they can maintain cash balances.


I think even store cards and air miles accounts could be arguable foreign financial accounts which would have to be reported.

Up to recently, I had over 25 accounts though so submitted a simplified FBAR...it will be interesting to see if the Treasury writes back wanting more information. 

What I can't figure out is if they'd be more concerned that I had so many accounts with lowish balances or if they'd be more suspicious if I had just one or two accounts with large amounts in them. It would seem to me that if someone were trying to hide money offshore that they'd just have one or two foreign accounts.


----------



## Peg

nobledreamer said:


> On my FBARS (not yet sent) I put "Spouse" and then where they asked for the tax ID no I put "not an American citizen, person, nor entity") each and every time as in "it's none of your bloody business"...
> 
> Peg, I asked my accountant if I had to include the charity I volunteer for and she said I did not, because, while I do have signing authority, I don't have any financial interest in the organization....I am curious- is there some difference between your situation and mine that means you must do this? We also file an information return with CRA and I really don't see how your organization is required to do this.....I just don't understand unless I am really missing something


This IRS memo http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-10-23.pdf which I found on FAQs Regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - Filing Requirements specifically mentions _applies to FBARs reporting foreign financial accounts over
which the person has signature authority, but no financial interest, for the 2010 and prior calendar years._

I would be very curious to know why your Accountant says you do not need to report those accounts. I cannot find that exception but then again I'm not an accountant!


----------



## Peg

FAQs Regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - Financial Accounts answered my question about exchange rate:

Q. What does “maximum value of account” mean (for Box 15 on the FBAR)?

A. The maximum value of account is the largest amount (not the average amount) of currency and nonmonetary assets that appear on any quarterly or more frequent account statements issued for the applicable year. If periodic account statements are not issued, the maximum account value is the largest amount of currency or nonmonetary assets in the account at any time during the year. Convert foreign currency by using the official exchange rate at the end of the year.

Though the FBAR instructions direct filers to use the official exchange rate, the Internal Revenue Service has no official exchange rate and generally accepts any posted exchange rate that is used consistently. For exchange rates, check the U.S. Treasury Web site or other commercial sites.


----------



## Ladyhawk

Mona Lisa76 said:


> Though I resent it, I would argue that it's safer to over-report than under-report my various accounts which is why I'm also going to be listing my travel card and pre-paid cell phone sims because they have cash balances and are thus to my mind, foreign financial accounts. Ditto with my Paypal and Alertpay accounts since they can maintain cash balances.
> 
> 
> I think even store cards and air miles accounts could be arguable foreign financial accounts which would have to be reported.
> 
> .


Holy jackpot, Batman, that's totally mind-blowing! Isn't that just setting yourself up for more accounts to fine you for, if they decide you're one of their targets? I sure as heck won't be giving them all that stuff. If they get that picky, you can bet they'd never, ever have the resources to check them all out if they decided to go for details.


----------



## Guest

Ladyhawk said:


> Holy jackpot, Batman, that's totally mind-blowing! Isn't that just setting yourself up for more accounts to fine you for, if they decide you're one of their targets? I sure as heck won't be giving them all that stuff. If they get that picky, you can bet they'd never, ever have the resources to check them all out if they decided to go for details.


Heh heh. It's called "kill them with kindness" aka "work to rule" in labour circles. You want data? I'll give you f*****g data.

My secret dream, I gloat when I think of this, is that the US gets the Greek banks to comply with FATCA. Omigod. I've spent a fair bit of time in Greece, my wife has a sister who married a Greek and lives there. Wonderful people much of the time, the Greeks (but don't ever let one of them drive you anywhere, they're insane when they get behind the wheel of a car) but you can't believe how they can mess things up. Assuming the Greeks gave them financial information on US citizens in Greece (instead of messing up the computer run and giving them financial information on everyone else in Greece instead), the input would probably bring the IRS computers and geeks to their knees, sobbing and whimpering. Assuming they could even read what they got (Greek alphabet and language for all text fields, for example). Oh please, let it happen.

The key here is to your last sentence. See also, hidden between boring writing and horrifying information, what those two auditor reports on OVDI have to say, the ones Deckard linked us to on the OVDI thread ...


----------



## Peg

Just finished my last FBAR and 8891.

Finally paid for some help with this --- to my teenager to double-check all of the numbers... What a joyous Saturday night. Final steps: do the Triple-Check and then write the Opt-out of OVDI letter! But that can wait...


----------



## Cafreeb12

Peg said:


> Just finished my last FBAR and 8891.
> 
> Finally paid for some help with this --- to my teenager to double-check all of the numbers... What a joyous Saturday night. Final steps: do the Triple-Check and then write the Opt-out of OVDI letter! But that can wait...


Congratulations Peg, you got that much done! Won't you be happy when this is all over!? I know that I certainly will. Good job getting your teen to go over the numbers, what a good idea!  My fried middle aged brain does not compute those little lines and numbers well after the first ten minutes.


----------



## Ladyhawk

Peg said:


> Just finished my last FBAR and 8891.
> 
> Finally paid for some help with this --- to my teenager to double-check all of the numbers... What a joyous Saturday night. Final steps: do the Triple-Check and then write the Opt-out of OVDI letter! But that can wait...


Peg, were you required to do all this before you opted out? So in other words, they get all the information they wanted while you were in the program, but then you opt out? What is the advantage here, the hope for less harsh fines?


----------



## Peg

Ladyhawk said:


> Peg, were you required to do all this before you opted out? So in other words, they get all the information they wanted while you were in the program, but then you opt out? What is the advantage here, the hope for less harsh fines?


My understanding is that whether in the OVDI or not, the FBARs and IRS returns are required.

I am opting out of the OVDI because from what I know, there are automatic fines in OVDI. I was pressured to go into it because I learned of it on the evening of September 7th and the deadline was the 9th!

I am taking my chances outside of OVDI and if they still try to penalize me then I will fight them and if necessary, will not go to the USA for a long time... 

Since the US Ambassador to Canada said they do not want to go after grandmas I am hoping they don't want to go after soccer moms either :clap2:


----------



## Peg

Cafreeb12 said:


> Congratulations Peg, you got that much done! Won't you be happy when this is all over!? I know that I certainly will. Good job getting your teen to go over the numbers, what a good idea!  My fried middle aged brain does not compute those little lines and numbers well after the first ten minutes.


Thanks Cafreeb12! I had to redo the numbers because I had not used the correct exchange rates. Didn't know the first time that the IRS forms want the average exchange rate for the year and the 8891s need the end of year account balance. And that the FBARs want the end-of-year rate but the highest balance during the year. It is ridiculous! :frusty:

My daughter wondered why I would do a 8891 for a $13 account but heck I have to report EVERYTHING .

By the time I was done these forms I was seething and my body was in pain from sitting at the computer so long!

And, yes, I will be very happy --- I want everything sent in the next few days prior to my renunciation appointment!!


----------



## Guest

Peg said:


> Thanks Cafreeb12! I had to redo the numbers because I had not used the correct exchange rates. Didn't know the first time that the IRS forms want the average exchange rate for the year and the 8891s need the end of year account balance. And that the FBARs want the end-of-year rate but the highest balance during the year. It is ridiculous! :frusty:
> 
> My daughter wondered why I would do a 8891 for a $13 account but heck I have to report EVERYTHING .
> 
> By the time I was done these forms I was seething and my body was in pain from sitting at the computer so long!
> 
> And, yes, I will be very happy --- I want everything sent in the next few days prior to my renunciation appointment!!


Peg, I checked the links you sent and the one my accountant sent......no time now other than to say it appears you both are right. There is "relief" provided as of 2011 forward and my accountant does not know me well enough to realize I've been doing this for years....<sigh> Congrats on being done! How long til your renounciation appt-I can't remember if, due to the long distance you are travelling, whether they will let you do it all at once? So glad to hear the hellish part is over for you! :clap2:


----------



## Peg

nobledreamer said:


> Peg, I checked the links you sent and the one my accountant sent......no time now other than to say it appears you both are right. There is "relief" provided as of 2011 forward and my accountant does not know me well enough to realize I've been doing this for years....<sigh> Congrats on being done! How long til your renounciation appt-I can't remember if, due to the long distance you are travelling, whether they will let you do it all at once? So glad to hear the hellish part is over for you! :clap2:


That makes sense about the change for the FBARs --- 2011 will be my last one .

My appointment is this month :clap2:. I have to email to confirm that I can do it all in one meeting since I have to fly (cannot sit for extended periods and therefore cannot do a 16 hour drive).

Thanks for your support!


----------



## Peg

For FedExing the FBARs they gave a street address:
IRS Enterprise Computing Center
ATTN: CTR Operations Mailroom, 
4th Floor
985 Michigan Avenue
Detroit, MI 48226

For the IRS forms they only gave this address:
Department of the Treasury 
Internal Revenue Service Center 
Austin, TX 73301-0215 
*
Does anyone have a street address for the Austin address?*


The IRS only accepts some private delivery services (e.g., FedEx, UPS, DHL from what I can tell) as confirmation for date mailed.


----------



## Bevdeforges

As far as the instructions go, the IRS address you give in Austin IS the address to use to file all tax forms from a foreign residence or if you are claiming the FEIE.

For tax forms sent in from "abroad" the date of receipt by the IRS is the date they count your forms as being filed. It doesn't go by postmark like for those in the US. (That's at least what they tell us here in France.)
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Peg

Peg said:


> For the IRS forms they only gave this address:
> Department of the Treasury
> Internal Revenue Service Center
> Austin, TX 73301-0215
> *
> Does anyone have a street address for the Austin address?*


FedEx needs more of an address for the IRS return --- I cannot find anything online. Does *anyone have a street address?*

Thanks!

:canada:


----------



## Vangrrl

Peg said:


> FedEx needs more of an address for the IRS return --- I cannot find anything online. Does anyone have a street address?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> :canada:


Peg, that's the address I used. I sent by Canada Post registered mail. 

But I found this on the London Embassy website:

IRS addresses | Embassy of the United States London, UK

_
IRS addresses

Internal Revenue Service Center, Austin, Texas
Overseas Filers

Overseas taxpayers filing individual tax returns should mail them to the Austin Service Center:
Internal Revenue Service Center
Austin, Texas 73301-0215
U.S.A.

For private courier services (such as DHL, FedEx, or UPS) only, the following address should be used:

Internal Revenue Service
3651 South Interregional Hwy 35
Austin, Texas 78741
U.S.A.
Attention: Receipt and Processing
Telephone: (512) 460 7944_


----------



## Peg

Peg said:


> FedEx needs more of an address for the IRS return --- I cannot find anything online. Does *anyone have a street address?*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> :canada:


Found it :clap2: at the same site as Vangrrl did! I saw that address on some accountant's sites but wanted to have it somewhere from the US Gov.


Odd that the US Embassy in Canada said to mail the forms to Philadelphia but everywhere on the IRS website has the Austin address (just not the street one...)


----------



## Peg

Vangrrl said:


> Peg, that's the address I used. I sent by Canada Post registered mail.
> 
> But I found this on the London Embassy website:


Silly me kept searching online without checking for replies... You are quicker than I am as that took a while for me to find that! I want to FedEx them tomorrow so I really appreciate your help.


----------



## CanadianHoosier

Peg said:


> Found it :clap2: at the same site as Vangrrl did! I saw that address on some accountant's sites but wanted to have it somewhere from the US Gov.
> 
> 
> Odd that the US Embassy in Canada said to mail the forms to Philadelphia but everywhere on the IRS website has the Austin address (just not the street one...)


My hunch is that is the address for US citizens living in the US....


----------



## Peg

Peg said:


> FedEx needs more of an address for the IRS return --- I cannot find anything online. Does *anyone have a street address?*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> :canada:


Interesting that the signatures for the FedEx show that my IRS returns and my OVDI letter were received by the same person in Austin. Looking more closely at the addresses I realize they were the same although written very differently - one was using abbreviations. Guess I was a little tired of it all by the time I sent them...


----------



## Arlington

Check this out:

Foreign Investors in U.S. Real Estate: Beware! | Preserving Your Privacy and Wealth

This discusses the potential new visa category that grants foreign buyers of qualifying U.S. real estate a new “homeowner visa.” 

There are a few catches. One is that "the buyer must live in the home for at least 180 days a year. Do you hear the sound of a mousetrap snapping shut? You should, because this requirement eventually brings the buyer into the U.S tax labyrinth.

First, buyers must live in the home they purchase for at least 180 days annually to maintain their visa. Over an extended time period, this makes them U.S. tax-resident and thus taxable on their worldwide income."

Read on . . it's quite entertaining. But not in a good way.


----------



## Cafreeb12

Hi all,

Just wanted to say Amy Feldman from Reuters just called me and we had a conversation for about a half an hour, her story is coming out around Thanksgiving and she said she'd give me a heads up about it. Very nice, inquisitive and interesting woman. I really want to thank her here publicly on this thread for her taking so much time and effort on our situation with regard to FATCA and FBAR.

edit: sorry for the double post. I don't know what happened. Mods can you delete one?


----------



## Cafreeb12

Hi all,

Just wanted to say Amy Feldman from Reuters just called me and we had a conversation for about a half an hour, her story is coming out around Thanksgiving and she said she'd give me a heads up about it. Very nice, inquisitive and interesting woman. I really want to thank her here publicly on this thread for her taking so much time and effort on our situation with regard to FATCA and FBAR.


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## Guest

*Canadian FBAR*



Arlington said:


> Check this out:
> 
> Foreign Investors in U.S. Real Estate: Beware! | Preserving Your Privacy and Wealth
> 
> This discusses the potential new visa category that grants foreign buyers of qualifying U.S. real estate a new “homeowner visa.”
> 
> There are a few catches. One is that "the buyer must live in the home for at least 180 days a year. Do you hear the sound of a mousetrap snapping shut? You should, because this requirement eventually brings the buyer into the U.S tax labyrinth.
> 
> First, buyers must live in the home they purchase for at least 180 days annually to maintain their visa. Over an extended time period, this makes them U.S. tax-resident and thus taxable on their worldwide income."
> 
> Read on . . it's quite entertaining. But not in a good way.



well, if they're Canadian, at least the Canadian version of an FUBAR is more reasonable than it's counterpart:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1135/t1135-07e.pdf


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