# Why move to USA?



## lambstew (Feb 18, 2009)

Hmm Just wondering what would be the most compelling reasons I'd opt to go move to USA?

<Been to Oz, Nz, Asia>


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## Danzaivar (Feb 19, 2009)

bizventures15 said:


> Hmm Just wondering what would be the most compelling reasons I'd opt to go move to USA?
> 
> <Been to Oz, Nz, Asia>


Guns, Women, Big cars, Cheap petrol, Big Houses, nice weather, lower petty crime rates, awesome TV that's not shown 6 months after it was technically released, comparatively lower taxes and the novelty of living in a super-power seem like pretty compelling reasons to me...

Ofcourse it all depends on what you want in life, whether America offers it or how America does things compared to your home country.


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## American Guy (Aug 27, 2008)

lambstew said:


> Hmm Just wondering what would be the most compelling reasons I'd opt to go move to USA?
> 
> <Been to Oz, Nz, Asia>


You don't say where you are, what you do, or your purpose in wanting to come to the U.S., but I gather from your public profile that you're a tailor of some sort?

First, you are assuming that you'd be allowed to relocate to the U.S. That's certainly not a given. I'd begin by inquiring whether you'd be able to and under which scheme before I'd get all excited about moving here. You also seem to imply that you're so great so as to be able to live in any country on earth, regardless of their immigration scheme. Trust me, that isn't so. You say that you've "been" to Oz, NZ, and "Asia," but you certainly haven't become a resident of all those countries - living somewhere for a few months on a tourist visa isn't the same thing as "moving" there - you're playing tourist.

Second, I'm not sure I like your attitude with your question. You seem to really be asking the following, "Why should I deign to grace the United States with my presence?" If that's your true meaning, then allow me to say - there isn't a reason for you to move here. Don't bother because you're not wanted. If, on the other hand, you're making a genuine inquiry into the advantages of moving to the United States, then I would offer the following:

1. lower taxes (until Obama gets his way);
2. far lower cost of living than Europe or Asia - housing is far cheaper, bigger, and of far better quality. Food is far cheaper. Gas is far cheaper.
3. Better income potential, assuming you can get a job here - not guaranteed by any means.
4. more educational opportunities;

The list is quite long. But, again, it will only appeal to you if this is what you really want and you're ABLE to move here.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

American Guy said:


> 1. lower taxes (until Obama gets his way);
> 2. far lower cost of living than Europe or Asia - housing is far cheaper, bigger, and of far better quality. Food is far cheaper. Gas is far cheaper.
> 3. Better income potential, assuming you can get a job here - not guaranteed by any means.
> 4. more educational opportunities;


1. I'm far from convinced. Firstly, the US has many more taxes than comparable western nations. Secondly, the taxes don't pay for as much. All in all, I'd say they were around the same unless you are a very high income earner.
2. I'd seriously question the higher build quality. Wattle and daub is my estimation. But you certainly get more area and gee whiz for your buck. On the food front, you get what you pay for. Regular stuff can be very cheap but also very crap. If you want quality stuff, it's the same price as comparable nations. Gas is cheaper, but since you both drive further and drive less economical cars, I'd say your auto expenses are around the same. 
3. Yes and no. Better or worse depending where you are. The minimum wage is far lower than comparable countries.
4. Undoubtedly. The higher education system is both flexible and affordable.


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## American Guy (Aug 27, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> 1. I'm far from convinced. Firstly, the US has many more taxes than comparable western nations. Secondly, the taxes don't pay for as much. All in all, I'd say they were around the same unless you are a very high income earner.
> 2. I'd seriously question the higher build quality. Wattle and daub is my estimation. But you certainly get more area and gee whiz for your buck. On the food front, you get what you pay for. Regular stuff can be very cheap but also very crap. If you want quality stuff, it's the same price as comparable nations. Gas is cheaper, but since you both drive further and drive less economical cars, I'd say your auto expenses are around the same.
> 3. Yes and no. Better or worse depending where you are. The minimum wage is far lower than comparable countries.
> 4. Undoubtedly. The higher education system is both flexible and affordable.


I disagree - most Western nations have "fewer" taxes, but those taxes, in total, cost far more than in the U.S. You are correct in that we "get" less from our government, but we also expect less as well (or we did until Obama got into office). Housing is far better in quality - NZ has horrible quality. Same in Western Europe. Auto expenses are no where near as costly as in the UK, and we don't do mass transit near as much here.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

@Fatbrit - are you developing a sense of let's call it humor?
4. Undoubtedly. The higher education system is both flexible and affordable. 


MN is not the US. Maybe taxes and cost of living are low in your area but I would not move out there for anything.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

American Guy said:


> I disagree - most Western nations have "fewer" taxes, but those taxes, in total, cost far more than in the U.S. You are correct in that we "get" less from our government, but we also expect less as well (or we did until Obama got into office). Housing is far better in quality - NZ has horrible quality. Same in Western Europe. Auto expenses are no where near as costly as in the UK, and we don't do mass transit near as much here.


You have to look at what your taxes are paying for. If you compare, say, the UK with the US, then your UK tax bill includes, among many other things, your health care. Your employer is currently paying out shall we say $6k a year for your health insurance and, if you actually use the service, you'll be paying more out of your pocket. So you have to take some of these things into account if you want to compare the two.

I hear home construction in NZ is pretty dire -- but I've never witnessed it. However, to paint Europe with the same brush suggests you've never witnessed that. European building standards for domestic residences are well above US ones. Drive an F150 at a Euro residence and the front wall be cracked but it'll stop you. Try that on a new build here in Southwest and you're through the living room kitchen, nook and rear wall and the beast will be floating in the pool in the back yard.

People drive fewer miles in the UK and drive more fuel-efficient vehicles. You must take this into account when calculating auto transportation costs.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twostep said:


> @Fatbrit - are you developing a sense of let's call it humor?
> 4. Undoubtedly. The higher education system is both flexible and affordable.
> 
> 
> MN is not the US. Maybe taxes and cost of living are low in your area but I would not move out there for anything.


Nope -- the US tertiary education system is much more flexible and far cheaper than European ones. Not to say it couldn't do with improvement, though. I'm in Phoenix, BTW.


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## Danzaivar (Feb 19, 2009)

Fatbrit said:


> 3. Yes and no. Better or worse depending where you are. The minimum wage is far lower than comparable countries.


To be fair, if you manage to get a visa for the US you'll have a better job lined up than minimum wage, unless your 'visa' was a carpet you put over the barbed wire to climb over the fence at the border. Eh heh.

There's also the personal freedom part. From what i've gathered in America you are a lot more responsible for your actions, which one imagines would be quite liberating, if you come from a nanny state anyway!


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Danzaivar said:


> To be fair, if you manage to get a visa for the US you'll have a better job lined up than minimum wage, unless your 'visa' was a carpet you put over the barbed wire to climb over the fence at the border. Eh heh.
> 
> There's also the personal freedom part. From what i've gathered in America you are a lot more responsible for your actions, which one imagines would be quite liberating, if you come from a nanny state anyway!


It's a point -- but neglects the fact that most immigration is family sponsored rather than through work skills. I know people with new green cards and close to minimum wage earnings. 

The "personal responsibility" is decidedly an American thing. Unfortunately, it's turned into a "let the corporations legally rape you" over the last 30 years. Hopefully, Obama will start to restore some of the much-needed balance.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Nope -- the US tertiary education system is much more flexible and far cheaper than European ones. Not to say it couldn't do with improvement, though. I'm in Phoenix, BTW.


???? More flexible with "fluff" degrees but cheaper? 

Have you looked at 4-year degrees lately? Here Auburn and UAB raised tuition by almost 15%. Sure Harvard limits tuition to 10% of family income but does not tell you about the extracurricular fees:>) Beautiful and ridiculously expensive Birmingham, AL.


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## oldmanwinter (Feb 17, 2009)

lambstew said:


> Hmm Just wondering what would be the most compelling reasons I'd opt to go move to USA?
> 
> <Been to Oz, Nz, Asia>


Having the consumer mindset- this place is a consumer's paradise! 

I don't know how anyone could list the educational system as a plus though, it's hard to imagine a system that's worse having gone through it myself from kindergarten to a third year in college (so far). The way math programs are taught here is atrocious- I've actually had teachers who told the class "listen yall, math isn't hard: you just follow the rules and don't try to think about it too much, because that's when you get confused! just follow the rules!". I consider myself to be pretty good in mathematics and i think it's because i didn't pay attention in class  I've never actually been to a european school, but i've heard that some of them put a lot of emphasis on creativity and self discovery, and that is definitely not the case here

But cheap petrol, loose women, and disgustingly delicious food that's dripping with fat, we've got all that in spades


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

Fatbrit said:


> It's a point -- but neglects the fact that most immigration is family sponsored rather than through work skills. I know people with new green cards and close to minimum wage earnings.
> 
> The "personal responsibility" is decidedly an American thing. Unfortunately, it's turned into a "let the corporations legally rape you" over the last 30 years. Hopefully, Obama will start to restore some of the much-needed balance.


With your attitude, it amazes me that you still live here. I agree 100% with "American Guy". I and my family are being raped by Obama and the Democratic controlled congress, NOT corporations. I don't know who you associate with but I have worked with thousands of immigrants from all over and their incomes were definitely several times higher than the minimum wage. Most of the earned in excess of $100,000 /yr.

You appear to have very limited knowledge for someone so opinionated as yourself.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

JohnSoCal said:


> With your attitude, it amazes me that you still live here. I agree 100% with "American Guy". I and my family are being raped by Obama and the Democratic controlled congress, NOT corporations. I don't know who you associate with but I have worked with thousands of immigrants from all over and their incomes were definitely several times higher than the minimum wage. Most of the earned in excess of $100,000 /yr.
> 
> You appear to have very limited knowledge for someone so opinionated as yourself.


You're a great American, John. I'm sure readers will draw their own conclusions.


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## nardy8 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Why NOT????*

Why not? and let me tell you a few reasons to do that.

1. better job
2. better life
3. a house of your own
4. free to travel all over the world 
5. better culture 

I've been there, but not only. I've been in Italy, Austria, Romania (witch is my country). Let me tell you that of all the things that i've seen till now America give me a new meaning to my life. A reason to live, work, love of your family (i don't know if you can understant the last one, but i can't explain it to you, have to feel it.).


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## tomben (Dec 31, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Nope -- the US tertiary education system is much more flexible and far cheaper than European ones. Not to say it couldn't do with improvement, though. I'm in Phoenix, BTW.


Isnt Arizona ranked 50th for education in the USA now? I worry about that as I have 2 young kids going to be starting school in a couple of years.

50th is last place i think, unless Obama was right and he really did visit 57 states during his campaign


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## tomben (Dec 31, 2008)

nardy8 said:


> Why not? and let me tell you a few reasons to do that.
> 
> 1. better job
> 2. better life
> ...


I wish i could say better vacation time


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## tomben (Dec 31, 2008)

JohnSoCal said:


> With your attitude, it amazes me that you still live here. I agree 100% with "American Guy". I and my family are being raped by Obama and the Democratic controlled congress, NOT corporations. I don't know who you associate with but I have worked with thousands of immigrants from all over and their incomes were definitely several times higher than the minimum wage. Most of the earned in excess of $100,000 /yr.
> 
> You appear to have very limited knowledge for someone so opinionated as yourself.


Being an immigrant and having experienced life in more than one country normally gives you more knowledge in areas of politics and culture. Then more opinions too ...

What countries have you lived in?


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

I haven't lived in Phoenix since the 60's so I don't know how it has changed since then. I suspect that the quality of education in Arizona, like California, depends a lot on the school district you live in. California does not rank very high on a statewide basis yet we have some of the highest ranking school districts in the country but we also have some of the worst.

When we lived in Florida, it was ranked close to the bottom, if not the bottom. We had 2 kids in school there. We lived in Coral Springs Florida that had excellent schools even though Florida has a county unitary system. That means that theoretically there should not be much difference between cities within the county ( Broward county in our case ), however that definitely was not true. Demographics plays a big part.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

tomben said:


> Isnt Arizona ranked 50th for education in the USA now? I worry about that as I have 2 young kids going to be starting school in a couple of years.
> 
> 50th is last place i think, unless Obama was right and he really did visit 57 states during his campaign
> 
> YouTube - Obama Claims He's Visited 57 States


You're witnessing the effect of Proposition 203, passed by the Arizona electoral lynch mob in 2000. What the hell did they think would be the outcome of this silly bigotry?


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

tomben said:


> Being an immigrant and having experienced life in more than one country normally gives you more knowledge in areas of politics and culture. Then more opinions too ...
> 
> What countries have you lived in?


I was born and raised in Canada and have worked, lived and visited there several times since. My wife is from Mexico where we were married several years ago. I lived in Mexico, worked there and am fluent in Spanish as well as being bi-cultural. I have taught classes in Mexican culture to companies in the US and have also taught classes in US culture to Mexican businesses. I have also lived and worked in Venezuela. I have lived and visited all over these countries as well as the US. In fact we are off to Mexico next month for a few weeks. We have family in Mexico, Japan, and Canada. I have many friends and have worked closely with people from Korea, India, China, and several other countries.

What I wonder is why immigrants choose to live here if they don't like it. Yes, we are different and that is why I choose to live in the US and am very happy here. I came here on my own because I wanted to. I have been fortunate to live the American dream. That doesn't mean we are perfect but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

Fatbrit said:


> You're a great American, John. I'm sure readers will draw their own conclusions.


Thank you very much for the compliment. I really appreciate it.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

JohnSoCal said:


> Thank you very much for the compliment. I really appreciate it.


C'mon -- real Americans don't do sarcasm! Your Canadian roots are poking through here, me thinks!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

JohnSoCal said:


> What I wonder is why immigrants choose to live here if they don't like it. Yes, we are different and that is why I choose to live in the US and am very happy here. I came here on my own because I wanted to. I have been fortunate to live the American dream. That doesn't mean we are perfect but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Immigrants live where they do for a wide variety of reasons - it's not always because they chose a particular country out of a range of options. In fact, there are plenty of native born Americans who find fault with how things are in the US - and despite the old "America, love it or leave it" mentality, decide to stick around and try and improve things.

To be honest, I never would have chosen France as a place to live if I'd been making a logical and rational choice. I'm here because of a whole series of circumstances, but now that I'm here and settled in, I could never go back to the US to live. That's not for any "discontentment" reasons (though I admit that, from over here, some of the stuff going on in the US these days seems a bit OTT) - it's because this is where I have my life now. And yes, I'll cast my vote here in France to try and push things along in the direction I think they should be going - as I'm sure most Americans do, too. But there were things that drove me nuts in the US when I lived there, just as some attitudes and things here in France drive me nuts and probably always will.
Cheers,
Bev


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## tomben (Dec 31, 2008)

JohnSoCal said:


> I was born and raised in Canada and have worked, lived and visited there several times since. My wife is from Mexico where we were married several years ago. I lived in Mexico, worked there and am fluent in Spanish as well as being bi-cultural. I have taught classes in Mexican culture to companies in the US and have also taught classes in US culture to Mexican businesses. I have also lived and worked in Venezuela. I have lived and visited all over these countries as well as the US. In fact we are off to Mexico next month for a few weeks. We have family in Mexico, Japan, and Canada. I have many friends and have worked closely with people from Korea, India, China, and several other countries.
> 
> What I wonder is why immigrants choose to live here if they don't like it. Yes, we are different and that is why I choose to live in the US and am very happy here. I came here on my own because I wanted to. I have been fortunate to live the American dream. That doesn't mean we are perfect but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


I agree it seems strange to move somewhere you don't like. However in the context of this thread I don't recall anyone saying they do not like it here?

I too am loving my life here right now but I am well aware of the fact that things can go down hill pretty quick if life throws me a curve ball.

Its makes sense to point out the potential pit falls and more negative aspects of a country to potential immigrants, it helps them with their decision. So many people have rose tinted glasses and think just because its the land of opportunity, that they are going to have it all when they get here.


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## tomben (Dec 31, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> You're witnessing the effect of Proposition 203, passed by the Arizona electoral lynch mob in 2000. What the hell did they think would be the outcome of this silly bigotry?


I might check that out Fatbrit, I moved here in 2003 after that prop was passed, but also before the housing boom, thankfully


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

tomben said:


> I might check that out Fatbrit, I moved here in 2003 after that prop was passed, but also before the housing boom, thankfully


You timed it just about right with that one!

Wouldn't want to be living in one of those outlying area with a mortgage taken out in 2006! Your only real option is to walk!


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

tomben said:


> I might check that out Fatbrit, I moved here in 2003 after that prop was passed, but also before the housing boom, thankfully


Arizona's Prop 203 is the same as California's Prop 227 which passed in 1998. In fact I believe they both had the same authors. I don't really remember how I voted as I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about it. I believe there was some bigotry but that definitely is not the case with my wife nor me though we tend to both favor English only. I have seen the problems with bilingual classes first hand as it affected our daughter who did not speak English when she entered school at the age of 6. We lived in San Jose, CA and were very involved in the Mexican community which is very large in San Jose. The problems that we saw were the lack of Spanish speaking teachers and also many of the kids had very little exposure to English as their families spoke Spanish at home They also lived in communities where everybody spoke Spanish so there was no need to speak English outside of school. This was during the 70's. Our son didn't have the problem because he is 6 years younger and by that time our daughter was totally proficient in English as well as Spanish. Our daughter became a very good student. It is interesting to see how things evolved over the years. In the 70's, Spanish was by far the predominant language in the Mexican community whereas English is now predominant in the same communities. We saw this first hand when we returned back to San Jose in the late 90's We went to many Mexican celebrations, etc. where English was now predominant. We also saw this in the families of our friends.Typically, first generation immigrants are not proficient in English, speaking Spanish only. Second generation are truly bilingual and 3rd generation speak only English. I believe this is pretty consistent with immigrant families for other non-English speaking countries.

Another problem with ELL classes is that there are now large numbers of Asian immigrants in California so they would have to teach in many languages.

Below is a link to a study done in California 5 years after Prop 227 was passed. It is non-political. Their findings are that no definite conclusions can be drawn.

FIVE-YEAR STUDY OF PROPOSITION 227 FINDS NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE FAVORING ONE INSTRUCTIONAL APPROACH FOR ENGLISH LEARNERS


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