# EEA Family Permit prove genuine marriage



## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Hi there,

I am French living and working in England for 3 and half years, my husband is Turkish living in Turkey, we are planning to apply for the EEA Family Permit as soon as possible so he can join me to live here.

I red many things about the EEA Family Permit but still have a few questions:

I went on holiday to Turkey from March 23rd to March 30th this year, I met my husband on March 28th, I then came back to see him in Turkey from May 3rd to May 10th, from June 29th to July 7th and from September 8th to September 21st, we got married on September 14th .

I am worried the UKBA would think this is a marriage of convenience as it says on their website:

_"When a marriage / civil partnership of convenience is suspected, the burden of proof is high and rests with the ECO. However, in these cases the ECO is entitled to interview the applicant. Factors to consider include:
an adverse immigration history;
doubts about the validity of documentation;
*application follows soon after the marriage* / civil partnership;
no previous evidence of the relationship."_

What do they mean by “application follows soon after the marriage”?
Is there a minimum or recommended delay after the wedding to apply for this permit?

Also my husband was refused a working visa to Germany 1 or 2 years ago, do you think they could refuse the EEA FP for those 2 reasons?

As I want to prove this is a genuine wedding this are the documents I am thinking to provide:

* Copy of my passport with the stamps from my visits in Turkey 

* Pictures 

*Telephone bills, but the thing is that I almost never called him directly, I used a prepaid card and also a special code from my mobile phone so his phone number does not appears on the bill, I also send him text messages from time to time but not that many as it’s quite expensive. Do you think this could be a problem?

*MSN messenger history: As we meet everyday on MSN I taught it could be a good support, but I am wondering if I have to print all the pages of conversations as there are so many and also there are private things I would not like to share... What is your advice?

*I think I have seen somewhere that we could provide text messages, but how? Are there any ways to print texts from a mobile phone?

*As we got married in Turkey, we will provide our Turkish wedding certificate, but I was thinking to add our French wedding certificate with the English translation:
Because I wanted our wedding to be recognised in France we had go different times to the French consulate in Ankara. The first time was to apply for a “certificat de capacité à marriage” this is a document that says we are able to get married. We had an interview there as the Lady was saying that we met just 3 months ago and it was too soon to get married, she suspected my husband wanted to marry me just for a visa... after almost 2 hours of trying to convince her, she finally approved. 
So I wanted to add a letter explaining all of that along with the French wedding certificate to prove that authorities in France already approved our wedding as genuine.
Do you think it could help?
Also, does the Turkish wedding certificate has to be translated too?

Do you think there are any other documents I can provide to prove this is not a marriage of convenience? We don’t have any emails or letter as we speak every evening on MSN.

Thank you so much in advance for reading all that and for your responses 

Gaelle.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I am French living and working in England for 3 and half years, my husband is Turkish living in Turkey, we are planning to apply for the EEA Family Permit as soon as possible so he can join me to live here.
> 
> ...


What is going to "help" your husband's application, is the legality of the documents your submit. For example: chats, emails and the likes only mean that two or more people engaged on some sort of communication. However, if you include bank statements, lease/let/ or rental agreements, insurance polices or any legal document that will "tight" you with him, will show commitment. In a few words, you can't get off it that easy. You could send a detailed and well written cover letter, where you must show sincerity, honesty and above all: be humble!

Your marriage certificate needs to be in English.

Good luck!

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Hi Jrge,

Thanks for your quick response 



Jrge said:


> Hi,
> However, if you include bank statements, lease/let/ or rental agreements, insurance polices or any legal document that will "tight" you with him, will show commitment.


My husband has never been in UK, we don't have any legal documents with both our names because we never lived together yet...

Would you have an example of a cover letter?

Thanks for your help.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> Hi Jrge,
> 
> Thanks for your quick response
> 
> ...


The cover letter is composed as follow:

*First Paragraph:* A brief introduction of the EEA National and a description of their non-EEA spouse/patner. Details such as, length of marriage and details of their trip/relationship are very important.

*Second Paragraph:* Kindly and respectfully ask for the Family Permit to be issued, as indicated on *DIRECTIVE 2004/38C*, for which you are submitting supporting documents. Those documents need to be listed.

*Third Paragraph:* Kindly assure the information provided is true, and should they have the need to contact you, they can do it by email (make sure you put it down) or telephone (make sure to include international access codes)

*SIGN IT!*

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks again so much for your help  
I'll let you know how it goes.


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Actually, I have a few more questions:

On the VAF5 application form they ask question 4.11 Full name of spouse, I decided to take my husband's name, this is stated on hte wedding certificate, but I haven't had the time to change my passport and ID, shall I then write my maiden name on the application form, do you think that will be a problem?

Question 8.2.6 they ask how often do we meet, does they mean phisicaly, or meeting on MSN messenger does count on this question?

Questions 8.4.7/8.4.8 they ask my employer telphone number and email address, I work in a big multinational company, shall I provide HR details or my line manager maybe?
Do you know if they contact the company to verify the employment? In this case, are there anyhting I could do to help the process be faster?

Question 8.9.1 they ask where my husband and I plan to live in the UK, we will live first at my present address, but as I have a flatmate, when my husband finds a job, we will find a place just for ourselves, shall I write my present address in the field and say that we will move afterwards?

Question 8.9.4 they ask if anyone else than me live in the property and ask for full details of the person, what does they mean exactly by full details? copy of passport, NIN...?

Question 8.10.16 they ask if my husband intend to work in the UK, yes he does as we want to live here, but they also ask for details, we don't know yet, as he will start to look for a job one here, shall I write that?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> Actually, I have a few more questions:
> 
> On the VAF5 application form they ask question 4.11 Full name of spouse, I decided to take my husband's name, this is stated on hte wedding certificate, but I haven't had the time to change my passport and ID, shall I then write my maiden name on the application form, do you think that will be a problem?


It might complicate things. Remember, you are newlywed and need to prove that you marriage is legit. Can you find out with your Embassy how long will take to make those changes? or if they can give you a document indicating that a change is being made to your bio information.



GaelleS said:


> Question 8.2.6 they ask how often do we meet, does they mean phisicaly, or meeting on MSN messenger does count on this question?


Yes, it means physically. 



GaelleS said:


> Questions 8.4.7/8.4.8 they ask my employer telphone number and email address, I work in a big multinational company, shall I provide HR details or my line manager maybe?
> Do you know if they contact the company to verify the employment? In this case, are there anyhting I could do to help the process be faster?


Often times they don't, but it wouldn't hurt if you have a chat with your HR department and make them aware of your plans.



GaelleS said:


> Question 8.9.1 they ask where my husband and I plan to live in the UK, we will live first at my present address, but as I have a flatmate, when my husband finds a job, we will find a place just for ourselves, shall I write my present address in the field and say that we will move afterwards?


In other circumstances I would suggest to write only the present address, but in your case I strongly suggest to disclose as much information as you can. 



GaelleS said:


> Question 8.9.4 they ask if anyone else than me live in the property and ask for full details of the person, what does they mean exactly by full details? copy of passport, NIN...?


At the end of the application you can find the guidance.



GaelleS said:


> Question 8.10.16 they ask if my husband intend to work in the UK, yes he does as we want to live here, but they also ask for details, we don't know yet, as he will start to look for a job one here, shall I write that?


Answer: Would like to help with the household expenses.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Jrge said:


> It might complicate things. Remember, you are newlywed and need to prove that you marriage is legit. Can you find out with your Embassy how long will take to make those changes? or if they can give you a document indicating that a change is being made to your bio information.


The delay to have an appointment is quite long that's why I taught to do it after the EEA FP application, also I have to take days off from work to go to the consulate twice, this is not that easy... I can maybe explain that in my cover letter?

thanks again for your help


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> The delay to have an appointment is quite long that's why I taught to do it after the EEA FP application, also I have to take days off from work to go to the consulate twice, this is not that easy... I can maybe explain that in my cover letter?
> 
> thanks again for your help


You can certainly make a reference on your cover letter, but I wouldn't know how the Entry Clearance Officer (ECO) will think of. Remember, they have guidelines to follow. 

Good luck.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

I have just seen something here The Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 that makes me very confused:
_
"Amendments to the definition of EEA national2.—(1) Where the right of a family member (“F”) to be admitted to, or reside in, the United Kingdom pursuant to the 2006 Regulations depends on the fact that a person (“P”) is an EEA national, P will, notwithstanding the effect of paragraph 1(d) of Schedule 1 to these Regulations, continue to be regarded as an EEA national for the purpose of the 2006 Regulations where the criteria in subparagraphs (2), (3) or (4) are met and for as long as they remain satisfied in accordance with subparagraph (5).
(2) The criterion in this subparagraph is met where F was on 16th July 2012 a person with a permanent right to reside in the United Kingdom under the 2006 Regulations.
(3) The criteria in this subparagraph are met where F—
(a)was on the 16th July 2012 a person with a right to reside in the United Kingdom under the 2006 Regulations; and
(b)on the 16th October 2012—
(i)held a valid registration certificate or residence card issued under the 2006 Regulations;
(ii)had made an application under the 2006 Regulations for a registration certificate or residence card which had not been determined; or
(iii)had made an application under the 2006 Regulations for a registration certificate or residence card which had been refused and in respect of which an appeal under regulation 26 could be brought while the appellant is in the United Kingdom (excluding the possibility of an appeal out of time with permission) or was pending (within the meaning of section 104 of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002(19)).
(4) The criteria in this subparagraph are met where F—
(a)had, prior to the 16th July 2012, applied for an EEA family permit pursuant to regulation 12 of the 2006 Regulations; or
(b)has applied for and been refused an EEA family permit and where, on the 16th July 2012, an appeal under regulation 26 against that decision could be brought (excluding the possibility of an appeal out of time with permission) or was pending (within the meaning of section 104 of the 2002 Act).
(5) Where met, the criteria in subparagraph (2), (3) and (4) remain satisfied until the occurrence of the earliest of the following events—
(a)the date six months after an EEA family permit has been issued if F has not within that period been admitted to the United Kingdom;
(b)the date on which an appeal against a decision referred to in subparagraph (3)(b)(iii) or (4)(b) can no longer be brought (ignoring the possibility of an appeal out of time with permission) where no such appeal has been brought;
(c)the date on which any appeal against a decision referred to in subparagraph (3)(b)(iii) or (4)(b) is finally determined, is withdrawn or is abandoned (within the meaning of section 104 of the 2002 Act) (save where the outcome of the appeal process is that the document in question falls to be granted);
(d)the date on which F ceases to be the family member of an EEA national; or
(e)the date on which a right of permanent residence under regulation 15 of the 2006 Regulations is lost in accordance with regulation 15(2) of those Regulations.
(6) P will only continue to be regarded as an EEA national for the purpose of considering the position of F under the 2006 Regulations."_


Does that means that I have to apply for a registration certificate in order to be recognised as EEA national?

If I don't give them prove I applied, can they refuse the EEA family permit saying that I don't meet the requirements?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> I have just seen something here The Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 that makes me very confused:
> _
> "Amendments to the definition of EEA national2.—(1) Where the right of a family member (“F”) to be admitted to, or reside in, the United Kingdom pursuant to the 2006 Regulations depends on the fact that a person (“P”) is an EEA national, P will, notwithstanding the effect of paragraph 1(d) of Schedule 1 to these Regulations, continue to be regarded as an EEA national for the purpose of the 2006 Regulations where the criteria in subparagraphs (2), (3) or (4) are met and for as long as they remain satisfied in accordance with subparagraph (5).
> (2) The criterion in this subparagraph is met where F was on 16th July 2012 a person with a permanent right to reside in the United Kingdom under the 2006 Regulations.
> ...


No and No.

It is always useful to read the entire regulation/article/etc:

"This amendment of the definition of an EEA national reflects the ECJ’s judgment in the case of C-434/09 *Shirley McCarthy v Secretary of State for the Home Department*. Schedule 3 to these Regulations makes transitional provisions to address the position of persons who have acted in reliance on the previous definition"

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks Jrge


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

I was thinking to add some congratulations card we received for our wedding, do you think I should send the original or copy would be good?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> I was thinking to add some congratulations card we received for our wedding, do you think I should send the original or copy would be good?


Only because your circumstances are unique, send only copies. (under normal circumstances this is completely unnecessary). 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks again so much for your help and quick responses Jrge


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

My husband had his appointment yesterday at Worldbridge, but when he gave them the Lady told him that we put the wrong date on the application form, instead of writing 9 November 2012, he wrote 9 September 2012, but she still took it and now the status is: On way to WorldBridge HUB.

Do you think they can refuse the permit for that? Or maybe they would just call my husband for an explanation?

I am really stressed now, as if they refuse for that we would have to do it all over again and it would take much time to gather all the documents again, as far as I know, when they refuse they don't give back the documents, am I wrong?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> My husband had his appointment yesterday at Worldbridge, but when he gave them the Lady told him that we put the wrong date on the application form, instead of writing 9 November 2012, he wrote 9 September 2012, but she still took it and now the status is: On way to WorldBridge HUB.
> 
> Do you think they can refuse the permit for that? Or maybe they would just call my husband for an explanation?
> 
> I am really stressed now, as if they refuse for that we would have to do it all over again and it would take much time to gather all the documents again, as far as I know, when they refuse they don't give back the documents, am I wrong?


I wouldn't know how ECO will take on this, it clearly seems to be a typo. Should your husband's application be rejected, all your documents will be returned.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Today my husband received a phone call from the consulate asking him to provide our family register. He will go Friday to Istanbul to give them, this is not an interview as they said he could send it.

I aim to think this is a good new as they would not ask for a document if they wanted to refuse the permit, am I wrong?

But I am surprised about this request as we provided both Turkish and French wedding certificates translated in English and they do not mention it in the supporting document guidance...

Does people generally provide it with the supporting documents?

Any idea about why they want it?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> Today my husband received a phone call from the consulate asking him to provide our family register. He will go Friday to Istanbul to give them, this is not an interview as they said he could send it.
> 
> I aim to think this is a good new as they would not ask for a document if they wanted to refuse the permit, am I wrong?
> 
> ...


Remember, your circumstances are unique. The "positive" of this, is that ECO requested more supporting documents and didn't reject it right away.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Remember, your circumstances are unique. The "positive" of this, is that ECO requested more supporting documents and didn't reject it right away.
> ...


Yes I think positive, feel much confident now!

Thanks again for your reply, I'll update as soon as we have a response


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

EEA family permit approved 

Thanks Jrge for your precious help!


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## GaelleS (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks Lessenich 

This is the cover letter my husband gave with the application form, all the documents we provided are listed (not to forget the International family registry we have been asked to provide later):

To:
Whom it may concern

Antalya, November 12th 2012


Subject: Declaration from the applicant that they will be joining the EEA National in the UK

Dear Sir or Madam,

I,

First Name: .......
Last Name: .........
Nationality: Turkish
Passport N#: .........

hereby certify that I will be joining my wife,

First Name: Gaëlle
Last Name: .....
Nationality: French
Passport N#: .....
Date of Arrival in the UK: 18 March 2009

in the UK once I have been issued with an EEA Family Permit.

As the spouse of an European citizen, I wish to exercise my right of free movement and residency as stated in the Free Movement Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004.

Please, find attached to this letter, all the required supporting documents for the process of this application.

Printed and signed VAF5 application form
My passport
My passport size picture
My original Turkish wedding certificate with its English translation
My original French wedding certificate with its English translation
Certified copy of my wife’s passport showing her travel to Antalya,Turkey
Declaration from my wife that I will be joining her in the UK
Declaration of our story together with my wife
Declaration from my wife of our story together
Proof that my wife is exercising her treaty rights in the UK:
Original letter from my wife’s employer
My wife’s last 3 payslip
My wife’s stamped bank statements showing her salary over 4 months
My wife’s stamped bank statements showing her savings
My stamped and signed bank statement showing my savings
My wife’s original Tenancy agreement from July 2010
My wife’s Boarding passes and flight confirmation emails of her travels to Antalya, Turkey
Hotel booking confirmation emails for my wife and I while she was in Antalya, Turkey
The flight ticket of the journey my wife and I made to Ankara
31 pictures of my wife and I, including wedding pictures with date, place and comments on the back
My wife’s telephone bills showing calls and text messages sent to me
Print screens of my MSN messenger conversation history with my wife showing a daily contact via video chat
Print screens of my Facebook page showing pictures of our wedding
Print screens of my wife’s Facebook page showing pictures of our wedding and her links to my family
Print screens of my Facebook emails with my wife
Print screens of my Facebook emails with my wife’s mother ..... .....
Print screens of my Facebook emails with my wife’s sister ....... ....
Copy of congratulations cards received for our wedding
Reference letter from my brother ...... ...... and copy of his ID
Reference letter from my friend .... ........ and copy of his ID
Reference letter from my wife’s mother ..... ...... and copy of her ID
Reference letter from my wife’s sister ...... ..... and copy of her ID
Reference letter from my wife’s friend ........ .......... and copy of her ID
Reference letter from my wife’s friend .... ........ and copy of his passport


Should you need any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely hoping that you will give to this enclosed application your favourable consideration,
Yours faithfully,

...... .......


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


GaelleS said:


> EEA family permit approved
> 
> Thanks Jrge for your precious help!


Congratulations and Happy Holidays!


Animo
(Cheers)


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## Pablito81 (Jan 21, 2013)

May i just mention that most of those documents were unnecessary to provide, all there needed was:

copy of EEA national passport, declaration letter from EEA national, marriage certificate, Passport of non EEA spouse and in case of joining your spouse evidence of exercising treaty rights. Many questions on application form are irrelevant and answering them hinder the right of EEA national to free movement with their family member.

Any intentions of visit in UK or financials are irrelevant also...


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## saka1986 (May 16, 2014)

*eea family permit query*

Hi there, 
Im a mauritian citizen who got married to a romanian citizen. I am thinking of applying for the permit because my wife studies and works in England. Ive read few of the posts posted on this forum regarding this matter. Im getting a big worried now because our case is quite complex. We got married 4 days ago in romania. My wife needs to go back to England at the beginning of june because she has an exam. Im planning to apply for the permit from romania. We are very worried that they might think of it as a marriage of convenience if I apply now. Also in the past I overstayed my student to stay with her but returned at my own expense back home. I would really appreciate some advice. Thanking you in advance. 

Saka


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## saka1986 (May 16, 2014)

*eea family permit query*

Any reply please. 

Saka


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