# Passenger Van Service



## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Considering getting a passenger van to get in on the lack of transportation in the province and making some cash. Would implement after things are normal after covid if that ever happens.

Tried researching online and can't find anything. Is anybody doing this and can provide some info? Van costs is a given but what about insurance. Also heard of something called a Frankesa license to haul people and this can be included when you purchase a vehicle. Also how much drivers are paid.

Many thanks for any info!


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Don't have any info, can only come up with a minds eye view of opening large can of worms. 

Fred


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Dennis, they have that here and it's called UV Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_Express But they seem to be in limbo right now like all private or public transportation business, they don't even run the Buses and for sure no jeeps or trikes in the "Provincial area's".

Here's another link with photos of these point to point vans https://ph.news.yahoo.com/ltfrb-suspends-point-point-ops-054105814.html

Many citizens have resorted to buying bikes and I might just take that route and start using my sons 10 speed, but the other concern is the heat.

And how many people could start up a new jeepeny business, these vehicles cost around 3 - 4 million pesos? and now the seating regulations... These modern Jeepney's look different but here's an example of one.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

fmartin_gila said:


> Don't have any info, can only come up with a minds eye view of opening large can of worms.
> 
> Fred


Yes, very skeptical but appeasing the wife by at least looking into it lol


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

M.C.A. said:


> Dennis, they have that here and it's called UV Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_Express But they seem to be in limbo right now like all private or public transportation business, they don't even run the Buses and for sure no jeeps or trikes in the "Provincial area's".
> 
> Here's another link with photos of these point to point vans https://ph.news.yahoo.com/ltfrb-suspends-point-point-ops-054105814.html
> 
> ...




Would be a point to point van. You stand on the hwy in my wife's town and 20 can pass by full before you can get a seat. Pre-covid of course, no idea how its running now since we're not there to see it.

I know there's much more to this than getting a van and driving around picking up people bound for Tacloban City. Just need to convince others of that lol.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

It will be incredibly bureaucratic. You will need multiple licenses and permits and will never find any definitive site that will list all the requirements let alone any listing of the procedures to get such a license.

Locals will get a break on having to follow all rules. Foreigners will get a few new ones special for them.

I was sitting in a local self serve laundry waiting for the spin cycle to finish and counted 11 different permits on the wall. Fire inspections, health inspections, occupancy permits, safety inspection, buragany business license, municipal business license, tax permits, etc.


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

cvgtpc1 said:


> Would be a point to point van. You stand on the hwy in my wife's town and 20 can pass by full before you can get a seat. Pre-covid of course, no idea how its running now since we're not there to see it.
> 
> I know there's much more to this than getting a van and driving around picking up people bound for Tacloban City. Just need to convince others of that lol.


Several years ago, I knew of a guy who invested in a Toyota van and bought a UV Express route. His bro-in-law was the driver. I think the route was a bit like a a franchise but the cost was based on the popularity of the route.

I'm fairly certain you can't just throw a van out there on a U.V. Express route and try to compete with them. That would probably end badly, in so many ways.

I never heard about that venture again, which suggests it was a failure.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Fred raised the can of worms and rightly so, Rick raised the bureaucracy side of things in doing business in PH. and will always be fraught with danger if a foreigner no matter the entry level.

4 odd years ago My better half raised the "let's look at tricycles as an investment" scenario (we were both living and working in Oz) and while the numbers looked fantastic initially (30% + return) slowly went down to 20% after many questions from myself, further prodding revealed a 14 to 15% return and in the interim the license/bureaucratic and license owners greed changed/pushed purchase prices up by 20% in 2 years reducing projected returns to 6 to 7%,,,,,,,,,,, let's not go there I said to my better half as we are getting 8 to 10% on our diversified investments...............Moving forward neither investment returned dividends and in fact we lost,,,,,,, well not really as I never sold anything, all relative etc. tricycles have to be maintained and stored, reliable drivers have moved on given this pandemic, 3 or 4 months lock down the tricycle/others died/suffered like most countries.
Gaining a passive and positive return on investments in our current climate is difficult and I simply sit back and weather the storm which will last some years,,,,,,,,, new investments? Think long and hard with regards to your OP, I see from your response you see the numbers cvg, now you need to get the better half to do the research so you are on the same page.

Sorry for the long winded rant and OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

cvgtpc1 said:


> Would be a point to point van. You stand on the hwy in my wife's town and 20 can pass by full before you can get a seat. Pre-covid of course, no idea how its running now since we're not there to see it.
> 
> I know there's much more to this than getting a van and driving around picking up people bound for Tacloban City. Just need to convince others of that lol.


This Van service in our area is located in Pagsanjan Laguna near or in between the bus terminals and it's more of a point to point service so only running from city area's to other city area's and would only be running when the quarantine ends, currently there's no public/private transportation in our region of Laguna and we aren't even allowed outside our Municipality unless you have a car, these services get robbed frequently... I should think with the glass half full but I'm just relaying what I watch in the news.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

At least the family would be able to use it.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

cvgtpc1 said:


> Considering getting a passenger van to get in on the lack of transportation in the province and making some cash. Would implement after things are normal after covid if that ever happens.
> 
> Tried researching online and can't find anything. Is anybody doing this and can provide some info? Van costs is a given but what about insurance. Also heard of something called a Frankesa license to haul people and this can be included when you purchase a vehicle. Also how much drivers are paid.
> 
> Many thanks for any info!


It seems that just about every province has a different established service for these point to point van services...UV Express, GV Express, FX Express, V-Hire, etc!

I had a Filipino friend who invested in a point to point van service and it did not work out well at all because of the drivers! He said you must have faithful and trustworthy drivers to guarantee success because there was no way to tell exactly how much money the drivers were collecting each day or how much they were actually turning in to the company...unless you install full feed video surveillance systems in each of your vans and completely monitor 100% of your drivers...and that is a major expense that is sure to cut deeply into your bottom line.

Any successful business venture "MUST" be based on the sound financial principle of R.O.I., or "*R*eturn *O*n *I*nvestment". It is not just about how much money you might make from the business but...how much will it cost to successfully launch the business and "when" will you fully recover that initial investment.

Typically, a fair R.O.I. would be less than 10 years...a good R.O.I. would be less than 5 years, a great R.O.I. would be less than 3 years...and an unheard of phenomenal R.O.I. would be less than 1 year R.O.I.

If you are really interested in starting up a successful business; *CONSIDER A BUSINESS IN THE TOURISM INDUSTRY!!!*

COVID19 will eventually pass and countries will reopen and the Philippines will again draw millions and millions of visiting tourists as well as locals looking for adventure.

Here in the Philippines, I have been involved with several business ventures that have been remarkably successful and profitable and have a relatively low investment start up and that is in the tourism industry...however...now there is the added issue of how to set-up and start a successful tourism business that can deal with the current COVID19, (or any other future health issue), and still remain viable!

There are literally hundreds of good solid tourist type businesses than can be started with a minimal amount of money and give you a full return on your investment in less than one to three months! A great example of this is: I helped a Family member start a tourist business and chose a zip line. Purchased 2 good quality zip lines for starters, business permits and insurance for all less than $5,000 US Dollars and made my investment back in the first month of business! He now has eleven zip lines total and since then, I have made a significant amount of money from my share of the profits for helping this Family member start the business, since he did not have the money to get started.

And the bright side...the zip line business is NOT affected by COVID19 because there is no issue with socially distancing...there are not as many foreigners arriving but the local business has kept the cash flow alive with absolutely no problem!

AND there are dozens of other ideas that can "fit" into the new normal of face masks and social distancing and meet the needs of people wanting to get out and relax, explore or have an adventure and make a really GOOD profit doing it.

AND now is a great time to invest in this type of business as the Government struggles to gain control of the COVID19 situation. By the time you have your business all set up, tourism will be slowly reopened and tourism businesses will certainly profit! *PEOPLE ARE ALREADY TIRED OF BEING LOCKED UP FROM THE QUARANTINES AND THEY WANT TO GET OUT!!!*

Here in Bohol, the Philippine Government has already implemented a new program to reopen the tourism industry here, ("UBE" "Ultimate Bohol Experience"), and they are begging for people who have tourist type businesses to become involved in the program! Once you submit your tourism based business into the program and meet the requirements for being safe from COVID19, your business is issued an "UBE" seal of approval and you are free to open your business to ALL Tourists, international and domestic...

Anyway...sorry...a little OFF topic from the discussion of a point to point van service but I just wanted to share!

If you are really serious about making some extra money every month for the foreseeable future...look into the dozens and dozens of possibilities for a tourism related business with low initial investment costs and high returns...many of these tourism business ideas can be started with a TOTAL initial investment of $1,000 on up...

I should start a new thread for this...Hahaha!!!


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Another item to seriously consider with starting up a passenger van service is the current COVID19 health crisis...which appears to NOT be ending any time soon here in the Philippines because of the huge increase in new cases...

Any and all businesses that rely on filling their seats to capacity are currently severely hampered. Airlines, trains, buses, passenger van services, movie theaters, etc...ALL make a profit by cramming as many people as they can into the available space as possible. These businesses found it extremely difficult to make profits before COVID19 and now it is even worse since they are being denied the ability to fill their seas to capacity!

Some of these businesses have completely closed their doors for the time being, (such as domestic airlines and movie theaters), and others are simply operating at 30% to 50% capacity...

I have a personal vehicle but was having some accessories installed, so my vehicle was in the shop and not available to drive, so I rode to the city in a V-Hire van and it was terrible! They are not allowed to fill their seats...it is every other seat, (50% capacity), with huge plastic barriers in between each passenger...plus the provincial requirements of BOTH a plastic face shield AND a face mask! AND...if a driver is caught with a passenger who is not complying with the health regulations...IT IS THE DRIVER WHO WILL BE ARRESTED!!!

It takes forever to travel because of all the checkpoints, where every passenger is required to fully exit the vehicle for a temperature check and show their quarantine pass and photo ID plus fill out a health card for possible contact tracing before being allowed to re-board and continue the trip. THIS IS DONE A EVERY CHECK POINT IN EVERY BARANGAY ALONG THE ROUTE!!!

Now, a trip that would normally take 2 hours, takes more than 3 and a half hours! More time wasted, more expenses for gas, vehicle air conditioning and driver salary and less income for only half your available seats...this spells disaster when talking about profit margins and business viability.

Customers are becoming angry and upset because they have to wear a face shield and a face mask for the ENTIRE trip sitting for hours in a van, getting out and doing temperature checks at every barangay check point, and arriving late at their destination!

Think about it...you are contemplating starting a new business with the purchase of a new vehicle, uncountable permits and licenses, insurance, drivers salary...additional expenses for COVID related issues such as rigid plastic dividers between the passengers plus alcohol and temperature scanner for your passengers...etc....all for a reduced income that will certainly remove all chances of operating a profitable business venture when considering the absolute fact that business owners prior to COVID will tell you profit was difficult before...imagine what it would be like now?

I am not in any way trying to talk you out of anything...just make a full and complete list of ALL your anticipated expenses...from the cost of a brand new comfortable and air conditioned passenger van, vehicle insurance and passenger liability insurance, permits and licenses, fuel, employee salaries, etc., etc., etc. and balance that against the absolute maximum you can make from one trip...and you will have your answer!

EXAMPLE: here in Bohol, it costs 150 pesos to go to the city and only 5 passengers allowed in the van...which means the maximum income available per trip is only 750 pesos...and at my calculations, that barely covers the cost of your fuel...let alone all of your other expenses or the thought of making any profit!!!


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

DonAndAbby said:


> Several years ago, I knew of a guy who invested in a Toyota van and bought a UV Express route. His bro-in-law was the driver. I think the route was a bit like a a franchise but the cost was based on the popularity of the route.
> 
> I'm fairly certain you can't just throw a van out there on a U.V. Express route and try to compete with them. That would probably end badly, in so many ways.
> 
> I never heard about that venture again, which suggests it was a failure.


Yes, I know turf is a thing too...one night my wife and I jumped in a trike passing by and were suddenly surrounded by the trike drivers who had that area. Had to get out of ours, they say ok now you can take one of ours, said screw you and we walked the rest of the way lol. Fortunately wasn't far to the main road for a jeep.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Gentlemen, thanks for taking the time for some well thought out responses!


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## ragbone13 (Jun 17, 2015)

You don't employ a driver. He leasses the vehicle from you for a daily amount (called the boundery), he provides the fuel, and keeps the proceeds for himself.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

ragbone13 said:


> You don't employ a driver. He leasses the vehicle from you for a daily amount (called the boundery), he provides the fuel, and keeps the proceeds for himself.


Hi ragbone, welcome from myself as I've not not seen your posts before today. I see what you are saying and if only it was that simple are my thoughts. It's not like going to the hire company for a car or a piece of equipment and your obligations are there in black and white. Nor casual labour and the responsibilities that come with an investment especially in the Philippines and the backward legal ramifications of a misdemeanour that will go through the legal system for years with the innocent party shelling out the dollars "because they believe they were in the right".
All that aside given what you have offered up can you help cvgtpc1 with his endeavours and perhaps some realistic figures to take on board?

BTW OMO and thoughts.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

ragbone13 said:


> You don't employ a driver. He leasses the vehicle from you for a daily amount (called the boundery), he provides the fuel, and keeps the proceeds for himself.


Then smashes your new van and runs away leaving you with the costs.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Yes, many things to it and you guys are bringing up other points I didn't know to consider. Thanks!


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

ragbone13 said:


> You don't employ a driver. He leasses the vehicle from you for a daily amount (called the boundery), he provides the fuel, and keeps the proceeds for himself.


Sorry ragbone13...I humbly and respectfully disagree...and by the way...welcome to the Forum, its good to have you here.

There is more than one way to set up a Passenger Van Service...you *"CAN"* hire drivers *"IF"* you are operating a *smaller* service, because having drivers lease your vehicle *"REQUIRES"* a very expensive Fleet Insurance Policy required by the LTO in order to legally operate, (such as UV Express, etc.)...ALL DRIVERS MUST BE FULLY INSURED, (medical, liability, comprehensive, damage), TO DRIVE ANY OF YOUR REGISTERED VEHICLES if you let them lease the vehicles. The other option that is used here in the Philippines for smaller service companies is to NOT lease the vehicles to a driver and forego the expensive fleet insurance and just hire a driver who works directly for the owner of the business for a salary.

These drivers can legally operate your passenger van with a regular commercial insurance policy and the driver is simply listed as an additional driver other than the owner, (up to 3 drivers can be listed per each vehicle on the policy).

Both of these options are currently being utilized in the Philippines!

(1)-Leasing vehicles to drivers in a *larger* company with a fleet of vans *OR* (2)-hiring your own driver to drive your van in a *small* business operation...

Correct me if I am wrong...but it was my understanding that the original thread, (posted by cvgtpc1), and subsequent posts to this thread were primarily discussing the possible initial start-up of a small operation that involved a single route service with maybe one or two vans to start with and "maybe" the possibility of growing the business at a later date if ROI warrants the expansion...and NOT opening a large fleet business...which; therefore; makes it impossible to make a profit if your are paying expensive fleet insurance for only one or two drivers in one or two vans...thereby only making it feasible in this particular scenario to outright hire a driver...or go bankrupt by spending more money than you are making!

LTO has lists of available insurance companies in the Philippines that are authorized to provide passenger service fleet insurance. Check the high costs for this type of insurance policy and you will easily see that you cannot lease to drivers in a small operation and still make a profit unless you are operating illegally!

It is not my intention to dispute or wrongly interpret anyone's thoughts on any particular topic in this forum because we are all part of the same community and we, (collectively), are only here trying to share information or experiences on a variety of topics for consideration by any interested members...but the fact is there are ALWAYS multiple ways to properly set up, implement and operate a successful business venture depending on individual end goals or desired results. This is what I did professionally and very successfully and still occasionally continue to provide business consultation services, (cost free-because I am now retired), for members of a national organization here in the Philippines.

How to cut corners or set-up illegal operations is not the kind of information I want to suggest to any members of this forum, so I merely gave my opinion and personal experience of what needs to be considered in implementing this type of start-up venture in a successful, profitable and legal manner.

Limiting ones self to one and only one business model is certainly a formula for failure particularly in the current virus infested world. Being able to adapt, adjust, evolve and reinvent yourself as situations and surroundings change is a guarantee for success in any endeavor!


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Cebu Citizen said:


> Sorry ragbone13...I humbly and respectfully disagree...and by the way...welcome to the Forum, its good to have you here.
> 
> There is more than one way to set up a Passenger Van Service...you *"CAN"* hire drivers *"IF"* you are operating a *smaller* service, because having drivers lease your vehicle *"REQUIRES"* a very expensive Fleet Insurance Policy required by the LTO in order to legally operate, ......


Assuming of course that all the vans taking people comply with the finer points of the law, not always a given here.


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