# Retiree visa for all of Europe?



## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

Hello everyone,

My wife and I are American citizens. We will be retiring soon and want to relocate to Europe, but we're pretty darned ignorant about the whole process. We would _like_ to travel widely by RV until we find a place to settle, with no fixed residence while traveling. This could take a year or so. Is that possible? We'd like to be able to travel freely during this time, too, and not be subjected to Schengen restrictions (for example). Is there some kind of visa which would allow this?

Thanks for any help,
Gerrit


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Not really. Partly each countries has its own set of rules. But the bigger issue is most visas require you to have a place of residence. To do what you want you'd have to rent an apartment and leave it empty.

Then you have the issue that RVs are fairly limiting for travel within Europe. Fine if you're going to a campsite on the wide highway. Not so fine if you're trying to deal with a small medieval village built for the turning circle of a mule.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

As Nick indicated, immigration is one of those things that has been left to the purview of the individual countries within the EU, so other than the "tourist visa" that is the Schengen visa (90 days in any 180 day period) there is no Schengen wide visa. You need to pick a country to start out in - usually for the first year - while you get settled and fulfill that country's immigration requirements. During that time, you can visit other Schengen countries from your home base - up to that 90 days in a 180 day period limit. But if you decide after that first year that you'd rather be elsewhere, you start the visa process all over again.

RVs in Europe are also nothing like the residential RVs you get in the States. Here you are talking about a real "camper" - generally limited to 3.5 tons (i.e. 3500 kg). For anything heavier, you need a C1 license - and that is a professional license for which you need specific training and a medical exam, as well as a standard French automobile driving license and 6 months of residence in France.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

Thanks, folks. We'd have a small RV, not like the behemoths you see in the US, and thus not require a C1 license for that I hope. We're considering towing a very small car with it, too, so we could squeeze into those medieval villages.

Looks like we'd better plan on establishing residency somewhere first though, and get a visa from there. I'll look into the residency requirements next.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> Thanks, folks. We'd have a small RV, not like the behemoths you see in the US, and thus not require a C1 license for that I hope. We're considering towing a very small car with it, too, so we could squeeze into those medieval villages.
> 
> Looks like we'd better plan on establishing residency somewhere first though, and get a visa from there. I'll look into the residency requirements next.


Be aware that even with residency in one Schengen country, you would still be limited to 90/180 days in the others.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Be aware that even with residency in one Schengen country, you would still be limited to 90/180 days in the others.


Thanks, I didn't know that would still be a restriction. Lots to learn!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> Thanks, folks. We'd have a small RV, not like the behemoths you see in the US,


I've seen professional drivers with full size vans having to scrape bumpers to turn on some tight streets. 

Honestly unless you're thinking of sleeping in the camper campers don't make a huge amount of sense. If you're thinking of sleeping then you need to start thinking of campsites. Many areas won't let you just park overnight . 

Where are you thinking of going with the camper?


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

NickZ said:


> Where are you thinking of going with the camper?


We'd like to explore all over Europe with it, and we'd sleep in it. People are doing it, and their blogs look wonderful, but maybe I'm being naive.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

Bevdeforges said:


> ... You need to pick a country to start out in - usually for the first year - while you get settled and fulfill that country's immigration requirements. During that time, you can visit other Schengen countries from your home base - up to that 90 days in a 180 day period limit. ...


Since we'd be subject to the Schengen restrictions as residents anyway, can we just travel on a tourist visa for a year or so (subject to its Schengen restrictions) rather than establishing a temporary residence?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> We'd like to explore all over Europe with it, and we'd sleep in it. People are doing it, and their blogs look wonderful, but maybe I'm being naive.


There is a big difference between driving to a national park or to a beach side parking lot and driving into any of the bigger cities. 

Depending on what you want to see it can work or it will be a serious handicap. That's ignoring fuel costs and everything else. 




Gerrit Barrere said:


> Since we'd be subject to the Schengen restrictions as residents anyway, can we just travel on a tourist visa for a year or so (subject to its Schengen restrictions) rather than establishing a temporary residence?


Schengen rules are 90 days every 180 days. You could spend time in the UK or the few non Schengen countries.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

NickZ said:


> ... Schengen rules are 90 days every 180 days. You could spend time in the UK or the few non Schengen countries.


Thanks for all your advice, Nick. What I want to know here is whether we could skip the residency and just travel as tourists, since it appears that the Schengen restrictions apply either way.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

If you can fit your trip into the 90/180 sure. That's what tourists do all the time.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

NickZ said:


> If you can fit your trip into the 90/180 sure. That's what tourists do all the time.


It seems like that would be easier than establishing residency, especially if we don't know where we're going to settle. Can you get a tourist visa for a year or more?


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

There is no tourist visa for a year, anywhere in Schengen. That's the short version.

With the 90/180 rule an American (or Canadian for that matter) simply cannot wander around Europe for more than three months at a stretch, unfortunately. If you're able to bounce outside Schengen (Croatia, UK, Ireland etc.) every 90 days you can potentially make it work.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

Nononymous said:


> There is no tourist visa for a year, anywhere in Schengen. That's the short version.
> 
> With the 90/180 rule an American (or Canadian for that matter) simply cannot wander around Europe for more than three months at a stretch, unfortunately. If you're able to bounce outside Schengen (Croatia, UK, Ireland etc.) every 90 days you can potentially make it work.


I didn't mean staying within the Schengen region continuously for a year. I mean can we bounce in and out according to the Schengen rules for a year or more altogether?


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

The alternative is to make a base for yourself somewhere then travel as much as the rules allow. Generally speaking there is no long-term tourist or retiree visa available anywhere in Europe, but Spain is apparently offers a reasonable alternative with their "non-lucrative visa" - you need to demonstrate adequate savings and/or non-employment income to support yourself for a year without working. (On that note, there are inconsistent reports of income from remote working being allowed for this visa, in the case of IT types wanting to work from a Spanish beach, but this is not a concern for the OP.) Talk to your local Spanish consulate for details. You may be required to actually have a Spanish address registered and all that, plus health insurance.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> I didn't mean staying within the Schengen region continuously for a year. I mean can we bounce in and out according to the Schengen rules for a year or more altogether?


Presumably yes, if you follow the 90 in, 90 out rule. There's no time limit that I'm aware of, though I suspect that if you tried to make one country your defacto half-time residence year after year, with your name on a lease, questions might eventually arise.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

Nononymous said:


> Presumably yes, if you follow the 90 in, 90 out rule. There's no time limit that I'm aware of...


I think this is correct, I now find, if you get a "multiple entry" Schengen visa, according to here. Those are issued for 1, 3, and 5 year periods.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Note that as a US citizen, you do not need a Schengen visa. You simply show up, but you will need to follow the 90-in-90-out rule.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

A Schengen visa is by definition a 90 day "tourist" visa. So no, there is no such thing as a 1 year "tourist" visa that allows you to avoid residency. You may be able to get a one year "visitor" visa (as in France), but that will establish your residency in France (or wherever) for that one year time period. You generally must maintain a residence where you can be contacted during your one year stay - and then you are subject to the 90 days in any 180 day rolling period restriction for visits to other Schengen countries. But you must maintain your residence in whatever country you have your long stay visa in. (A long-stay visa is, by definition, any visa allowing you to stay for more than 90 days.)

Towing a car with a camper may well involve getting a different category of driving license, too, as there are limits to the weight of what you can tow, as well as the 3.5 ton limit on the combined weight of the vehicle and what you are towing.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

Thanks, @Bevdeforges, that matches what I'm finding. I'm considering scooters instead of a car now, too.


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## Gerrit Barrere (Feb 24, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Be aware that even with residency in one Schengen country, you would still be limited to 90/180 days in the others.


Is this enforceable? Since a Schengen country resident can travel freely to other Schengen countries, how could anyone determine if you'd overstayed your 90 day limit?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It depends on the circumstances in each of the Schengen countries. Generally speaking, you won't be tossed out of any Schengen country if you "overstay your welcome" per the terms of the Schengen visa. However, at any point where you would need to prove your legal status in the country, things would get problematic.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> Is this enforceable? Since a Schengen country resident can travel freely to other Schengen countries, how could anyone determine if you'd overstayed your 90 day limit?


The burden on proof is on you. In other words if somebody cared to check you would need to prove you weren't in violation. But unless you get in trouble for something else unlikely it would get to this stage.


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## Franco-Belgian Brit (Apr 18, 2021)

Bevdeforges said:


> It depends on the circumstances in each of the Schengen countries. Generally speaking, you won't be tossed out of any Schengen country if you "overstay your welcome" per the terms of the Schengen visa. However, at any point where you would need to prove your legal status in the country, things would get problematic.


Furthermore, upon leaving the Shenghen area, your passport with your entry stamp will be checked. This may pose a problem if you passed the 90 days.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> Is this enforceable? Since a Schengen country resident can travel freely to other Schengen countries, how could anyone determine if you'd overstayed your 90 day limit?


Where this is most likely to get "caught" is in any sort of transaction where your country of residence comes into play. Sure, you can "freely travel" to other Schengen countries if you are resident in one of them. But at some point you do have to indicate where your primary residence is.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> Is this enforceable? Since a Schengen country resident can travel freely to other Schengen countries, how could anyone determine if you'd overstayed your 90 day limit?


If you were to travel in Europe on a tourist visa (the stamp you get at the border is your visa on arrival) for a year, where would your RV be registered?


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## Stevenjb (Dec 10, 2017)

My understanding is that if you want to get permanent residency in an EU country, you need to be in that country for a non-interrupted period of time, ie 5-years (no 90/180). If this interests you. Those more knowledgeable, please correct me on this as needed.

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## Stevenjb (Dec 10, 2017)

Gerrit Barrere said:


> I think this is correct, I now find, if you get a "multiple entry" Schengen visa, according to here. Those are issued for 1, 3, and 5 year periods.


I skimmed that webpage. It appears that you would still be limited to the 90/180 rule. 

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