# Libro de familia



## andmac

Hi, does anyone know the procedure for obtaining a Libro de Familia? We are trying to get social security numbers so our daughter can go to the local play school and were told we need one.

I have done google and came up with nothing!

Thanks.


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## Sancho Panther

I'm not absolutely sure but I don't think they have them any more. I think they're a relic of Franco's time, we married in '78 and we've got one even though the old b*****d died in '75; could be wrong though!


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## Pesky Wesky

Sancho Panther said:


> I'm not absolutely sure but I don't think they have them any more. I think they're a relic of Franco's time, we married in '78 and we've got one even though the old b*****d died in '75; could be wrong though!


Sancho Panther - love the name!

They are very much in force nowadays too.

I got married in '92 and that's how I got mine! I don't know how you get one, but it may be easier just to get married again here


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## xabiaxica

I'm pretty sure the Spanish get one when they get married here

I've never known a foreign family to have one - or to need one


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## fourgotospain

Here's what we did (Feb 2010):

Went to health centre to get medical cert. as on admissions list for school. Told the children need seperate SS numbers and given slip of paper to take to SS office. At SS Office given temp SIP cards which we took back to health centre with UK red book - Child Health Record (given to you in UK when your baby is born). Check up with paediatrician and medical cert issued. We did already have SS numbers though (the adults).

I *think* I was told the the red book is like the Libro Familia for school purposes? I could be making that bit up though - rather a lot has happened since then!


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## Sonrisa

Yes they are very much in use. Don't you get a family book in UK? 
You cannot apply for a spanish family book unless you are spanish and I'm not sure why would you need one anyways.


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## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> Here's what we did (Feb 2010):
> 
> Went to health centre to get medical cert. as on admissions list for school. Told the children need seperate SS numbers and given slip of paper to take to SS office. At SS Office given temp SIP cards which we took back to health centre with UK red book - Child Health Record (given to you in UK when your baby is born). Check up with paediatrician and medical cert issued. We did already have SS numbers though (the adults).
> 
> I *think* I was told the the red book is like the Libro Familia for school purposes? I could be making that bit up though - rather a lot has happened since then!


we were never asked for one - & our 'red books' blew away in a hurricane in Florida years ago...


I do remember someone I 'knew' on another forum got all the medical records, photocopies of passports, birth certs, NIE numbers etc. & put them in a folder together with her 'red book' - not a bad idea in any case


but as I say - we have never been asked for one.............


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## xabiaxica

Sonrisa said:


> Yes they are very much in use. Don't you get a family book in UK?
> You cannot apply for a spanish family book unless you are spanish and I'm not sure why would you need one anyways.


yes, that's how I understood it - only spanish people could get one


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## andmac

Thanks for the replies.

We do have a family book from the UK, with all the vaccinations and so in inside it. I will try them with this book and see how we get on!

After getting the NIEs and a bank account last week, I thought that most of the hurdles would have been jumped over, but no!

No point getting angry, as our neighbours said, there is always tomorrow!


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## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> We do have a family book from the UK, with all the vaccinations and so in inside it. I will try them with this book and see how we get on!
> 
> After getting the NIEs and a bank account last week, I thought that most of the hurdles would have been jumped over, but no!
> 
> No point getting angry, as our neighbours said, there is always tomorrow!


Absolutely no point as you say.

A family book with vaccinations etc does not have the same info as a "libro de familia". The Spanish book is the official marriage certificate and would also contain the birth certifates of any children.

Looks like there's been a misunderstanding somewhere as why would you have to present a "libro de familia" to get your child into play school?


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## djfwells

Upon registering the birth of our daughter 3 and some years ago the Town Hall refused us a Libro because we were not married ( Gasp ! the shame ! ).

Since then we have registerd her at Nursery, at school, got her Residencia and NIE and never once been asked to produce it for anything at all.

Sure, the Town Hall were being difficult in refusing it to us, but it sounds like your Nursery/Town Hall/Whatever is being difficult by insisting on you having it.


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## andmac

djfwells said:


> Upon registering the birth of our daughter 3 and some years ago the Town Hall refused us a Libro because we were not married ( Gasp ! the shame ! ).
> 
> Since then we have registerd her at Nursery, at school, got her Residencia and NIE and never once been asked to produce it for anything at all.
> 
> Sure, the Town Hall were being difficult in refusing it to us, but it sounds like your Nursery/Town Hall/Whatever is being difficult by insisting on you having it.


Yes we had the same - shock horror you have a daughter and are not married!

It was actually the social security office, they would not issue us with numbers without this libro. Without the numbers, the playgroup will not accept our daughter!

However, our neighbours are not married and they have a book - they are both 50 something Spaniards.


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## Caz.I

Pesky Wesky said:


> Absolutely no point as you say.
> 
> A family book with vaccinations etc does not have the same info as a "libro de familia". The Spanish book is the official marriage certificate and would also contain the birth certifates of any children.
> 
> Looks like there's been a misunderstanding somewhere as why would you have to present a "libro de familia" to get your child into play school?


I have had to show this book when I have applied for a place for my son at state nursery and state school, so they do ask for it (maybe depending on the Comunidad you live in?). So it is worth asking if you can get it. As well as showing any marriages that have taken place here in Spain, it proves the relationship between parent and child. So perhaps if the OP can show something similar from the UK they could get one here?

It is also useful for various other purposes, for example, having dependents in certain circumstances can affect tax deductions and state benefits and it is supposed to be proof of various circumstances - ie. divorced, separated, large family etc. (Although I have had various disputes with certain institutions about this aspect of it.) 

However, foreigners (from the European Union) can get them but I am not entirely sure if it is only if they get married here and/or their children are born here. (Though I think it may be possible if they are resident here.) I got one when my son was born here and we registered his birth. They are issued by the local registry office/court (juzgado). 

I am surprised the OP didnt find anything through Google - perhaps they didnt use Google Espana though? I couldnt find the official site, only articles about it, when I looked. But there is a lot about it. 

From what I understand, the traditional "libro de familia" is supposed to be phased out and replaced by some kind of digital certificate as far as I can tell, which you can apply for online - though I have no idea where. Best to go to the registry office in person I think.

It is true though that the "libro de familia" is nothing to do with vaccinations or social security numbers. Usually, when you apply for a place in nursery or school, you do need a list of the vaccinations the child has had done too, although I was never asked for a social security number for him - but I got one when he was born.

When I was trying to get my son a place in school, the "libro de familia" was the bane of my life, for various reasons, and it has caused problems for a lot of Spanish families too, when they have tried to prove their status as being separated, but that is a whole other thread...


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## Caz.I

djfwells said:


> Upon registering the birth of our daughter 3 and some years ago the Town Hall refused us a Libro because we were not married ( Gasp ! the shame ! ).
> 
> Since then we have registerd her at Nursery, at school, got her Residencia and NIE and never once been asked to produce it for anything at all.
> 
> Sure, the Town Hall were being difficult in refusing it to us, but it sounds like your Nursery/Town Hall/Whatever is being difficult by insisting on you having it.


Well I wasnt married and I got one! I think, like so many things here, it depends on your area and who you are dealing with. But they have no right to do that legally. 

I have also heard of single mothers being refused it until they put down the father's name (which ironically then stops them from being entitled to any concessions as a single parent, not to mention the points that are awarded for being a one parent family if you are applying for a place in a state nursery school.) And some even asking mothers to put down any name as the father's! Just as long as there was a name! 

I have been asked to show it countless times for various things, so I would stick to what I said earlier - that if you can get it, it's better to apply for it.


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## andmac

Caz.I said:


> Well I wasnt married and I got one! I think, like so many things here, it depends on your area and who you are dealing with. But they have no right to do that legally.
> 
> I have also heard of single mothers being refused it until they put down the father's name (which ironically then stops them from being entitled to any concessions as a single parent, not to mention the points that are awarded for being a one parent family if you are applying for a place in a state nursery school.) And some even asking mothers to put down any name as the father's! Just as long as there was a name!
> 
> I have been asked to show it countless times for various things, so I would stick to what I said earlier - that if you can get it, it's better to apply for it.


Thanks Caz,

Having just spoken to our neighbour, she is going to come with us and make sure we get the book tomorrow or on Friday. 

It seems things do depend on where you are and the Valencian region seems to be different from others with regard rigidity over red tape and bureaucratic affairs.

We will see what happens!

On a plus point, my Spanish is getting to be really good as I am constantly going next door to ask questions, have a coffee, have a glass of cava and so on!

Once we are settled here, I might just write a book on our experiences as one minute you are totally frustrated, the next something happens to make you realise why you want to be here!


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## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Thanks Caz,
> 
> Having just spoken to our neighbour, she is going to come with us and make sure we get the book tomorrow or on Friday.
> 
> It seems things do depend on where you are and the Valencian region seems to be different from others with regard rigidity over red tape and bureaucratic affairs.
> 
> We will see what happens!
> 
> On a plus point, my Spanish is getting to be really good as I am constantly going next door to ask questions, have a coffee, have a glass of cava and so on!
> 
> Once we are settled here, I might just write a book on our experiences as one minute you are totally frustrated, the next something happens to make you realise why you want to be here!


As I said, the "libro de familia" gives proof that your child is yours because it would have her/ his birth certificate in it. I presume that's the reasoning behind asking for it. If that is correct then you'd have to take the UK version, which would be your daughter's/ son's birth certificate. Translated? With an apostille? I don't know. Anyway, you can be sure you're not the only european immigrant that has asked for a place in a play school in Valencia so sooner or later you're going to find the person who knows what to do.

I agree with Caz I. and if there's any possibility of getting one, get one. Imagine if you have more children. Actually if you have a child in Spain you'll have to get "el libro", so perhaps that's the answer - go forth and multiply, my friend!! When you have three children, (or two and a member of the family has a certain degree of disability) you are classified as "familia numeroso" and you can flash "el libro" at any amount of places and get a discount!!

PS I remember that feeling of _Godness, I've just spent all morning in the (whatever) office, but she understood what I was saying!!!_


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> As I said, the "libro de familia" gives proof that your child is yours because it would have her/ his birth certificate in it. I presume that's the reasoning behind asking for it. If that is correct then you'd have to take the UK version, which would be your daughter's/ son's birth certificate. Translated? With an apostille? I don't know. Anyway, you can be sure you're not the only european immigrant that has asked for a place in a play school in Valencia so sooner or later you're going to find the person who knows what to do.
> 
> I agree with Caz I. and if there's any possibility of getting one, get one. Imagine if you have more children. Actually if you have a child in Spain you'll have to get "el libro", so perhaps that's the answer - go forth and multiply, my friend!! When you have three children, (or two and a member of the family has a certain degree of disability) you are classified as "familia numeroso" and you can flash "el libro" at any amount of places and get a discount!!
> 
> PS I remember that feeling of _Godness, I've just spent all morning in the (whatever) office, but she understood what I was saying!!!_


ok - I'm in the Valencia region like the OP

to get the kids into state school we had to provide copies of their birth certs & passports & ours as their parents - not translated - that would be ridiculous!!

I wonder if this nursery/ayunta is use to dealing with foreigners?? - if not, that could be where the breakdown is...........

I would suggest that copies such as we provided should suffice - they simply have to be made to understand that as foreigners you can't get this book - but are able to provide all the info they require


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## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Thanks Caz,
> 
> Having just spoken to our neighbour, she is going to come with us and make sure we get the book tomorrow or on Friday.
> 
> It seems things do depend on where you are and the Valencian region seems to be different from others with regard rigidity over red tape and bureaucratic affairs.
> 
> We will see what happens!
> 
> On a plus point, my Spanish is getting to be really good as I am constantly going next door to ask questions, have a coffee, have a glass of cava and so on!
> 
> Once we are settled here, I might just write a book on our experiences as one minute you are totally frustrated, the next something happens to make you realise why you want to be here!


Is there an end to this story?????????????

Hate being left with a cliff hanger.

PS. THe Spanish are sticklers for doing things by the books I find, so if you're supposed to have a "Libro de Familia" and you haven't got one, I really think it's case of not knowing the rules rather than any shock at unmarried parents. Perhaps I'm just not used to small town Spain, but as far as officialdom goes, my experience has always been they'd much rather use their rubber stamp and follow the rules than talk about the grace of God. We might interperate it as Catholicisim, but I tend to think not...


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## andmac

Pesky Wesky said:


> Is there an end to this story?????????????
> 
> Hate being left with a cliff hanger.
> 
> PS. THe Spanish are sticklers for doing things by the books I find, so if you're supposed to have a "Libro de Familia" and you haven't got one, I really think it's case of not knowing the rules rather than any shock at unmarried parents. Perhaps I'm just not used to small town Spain, but as far as officialdom goes, my experience has always been they'd much rather use their rubber stamp and follow the rules than talk about the grace of God. We might interperate it as Catholicisim, but I tend to think not...


Hi there Pesky,

The conclusion will be reached tomorrow morning, we are going to the town hall to sort it all out with. Our neighbour is coming too! We haven't been able to do it so far as the task of importing the car has also begun! There are only so many visits to officials you can (or want) to make in a week!


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## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Hi there Pesky,
> 
> The conclusion will be reached tomorrow morning, we are going to the town hall to sort it all out with. Our neighbour is coming too! We haven't been able to do it so far as the task of importing the car has also begun! There are only so many visits to officials you can (or want) to make in a week!


Am waiting with baited breath!!!


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## gus-lopez

andmac said:


> Hi there Pesky,
> 
> There are only so many visits to officials you can (or want) to make in a week!


Tell me about it ! I now always assume the worst that can happen , expecting to be lucky if I get one thing accomplished & have found that when it all goes well it's like winning the lottery ! :rofl:
Years ago we were instructed to sign on at the medical centre by our spanish teacher. This involved obtaing soc. sec. numbers, new padrones, a visit to the main medical centre to find out which satellite centre we came under. I thought we'd be lucky to do it in 2 days. We managed the whole lot, including signing on at the centre stipulated, in barely 2 hours, Incuding breakfast! Had to go & have a lie down after !!


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## andmac

gus-lopez said:


> Tell me about it ! I now always assume the worst that can happen , expecting to be lucky if I get one thing accomplished & have found that when it all goes well it's like winning the lottery ! :rofl:
> Years ago we were instructed to sign on at the medical centre by our spanish teacher. This involved obtaing soc. sec. numbers, new padrones, a visit to the main medical centre to find out which satellite centre we came under. I thought we'd be lucky to do it in 2 days. We managed the whole lot, including signing on at the centre stipulated, in barely 2 hours, Incuding breakfast! Had to go & have a lie down after !!


Yep we have adopted the same frame of mind.

When we went for NIE we got it all done in the end a week quicker than we had anticipated, it felt good!


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## rachb

I know this is an old thread but I´ve been researching the issue myself and found the answer! Hopefully it may help others in the future although unfortunately it will only be of use to married couples...

All you have to do in order to get the libro de familia is register your mariage here in Spain. In order to do this you have to obtain a marriage certificate dated within the last three months (the registry office which emitted the original certificate will be able to do this for around 12 pounds) and present it at your local juzgado or notario (I can´t remember which!) along with your passport, NIE, etc. Hopefully, it shouldn´t be any more complicated than that.

I know some people say that it isn´t necessary to have one but personally I think it´ll make life a lot easier. If the Spanish need it, it´s probably best that we have it too!


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