# Madrid/Valencia/Alicante and a motorcycle



## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Hi!
I was planning to retire and move to Spain this year, now this covid-19 thingy have put a temporary halt to my plans, but I'm still researching.
I was originally planning to move to Valencia, since Madrid and Barcelona are too expensive.
I spoke to some people that basically told me that I really should go and see and that Valencia was not very nice and Madrid was much better.
So I have been researching Madrid for the last couple of months, and yes I would rather live in Madrid that Valencia that is for sure, but the price of housing is so much more expensive.
What I would like to have is a house with a garage where I can put a car and a motorcycle, but I also would like to be able to enjoy Madrid, which means going out eating and drinking, so I would like to have access to public transport especially later at night.
When I have been researching it looks like it will be impossible to get a house for less than 300k with less than 40-50 minutes of public transport that runs after 11 at night?

So I have started to reassess what I really want, and I really need to go have a look, so the plan now is to (after the travel restrictions are lifted) to stay maybe 1 month in Madrid, 1 in Valencia and then after looking a bit more at the weather maybe 1 month in Alicante.
So, sorry a bit long winded. I would like to have access to a 'big' city, lots of nice food shops, market, wine shops, restaurants, big shops like Ikea and Cosco which don't exists in Alicant (or Valencia).
I want to be able to ride around the country and the rest of Europe on a motorcycle and travel by air to all over the world. I dont really need a big house, 2 rooms would be enough, but I do want a terrace and a garage to be able to do repair work to a motorcycle, maybe some wood workings and 'hide' the car when Im away.

So any recommendations? Or am I aiming to high with to little money?
Would I be OK in Alicante? or Valencia?
Is there a way to maintain a motorcycle in a apartment? I have tried to find a way to rent or buy a garage, but very few have 4 walls around them, so it would be impossible to keep tools.

Any reason I see so few people posting about Madrid here?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Stefan66 said:


> Hi!
> I was planning to retire and move to Spain this year, now this covid-19 thingy have put a temporary halt to my plans, but I'm still researching.
> I was originally planning to move to Valencia, since Madrid and Barcelona are too expensive.
> I spoke to some people that basically told me that I really should go and see and that Valencia was not very nice and Madrid was much better.
> ...


Most of the people here are retired and live in the southern coastal areas. There are a few who live in Madrid who will be able to assist you. I think cities are not attractive to elderly retired UK expats as they are generally more expensive and Spanish is often necessary to enjoy more fully


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

kaipa said:


> Most of the people here are retired and live in the southern coastal areas. There are a few who live in Madrid who will be able to assist you. I think cities are not attractive to elderly retired UK expats as they are generally more expensive and Spanish is often necessary to enjoy more fully


Ok, makes sense.
I will retire, but maybe I'm not elderly yet?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Stefan66 said:


> So, sorry a bit long winded. I would like to have access to a 'big' city, lots of nice food shops, market, wine shops, restaurants, big shops like Ikea and Cosco which don't exists in Alicant (or Valencia).
> I want to be able to ride around the country and the rest of Europe on a motorcycle and travel by air to all over the world. I dont really need a big house, 2 rooms would be enough, but I do want a terrace and a garage to be able to do repair work to a motorcycle, maybe some wood workings and 'hide' the car when Im away.




That doesn't sound like a house would be the best option. A house needs to be looked after even when you aren't home. Garden? Pick up the mail? Watch out if somebody tries to break in?

Every town will have food shops. Ikea? Costco? Sooner or later you'll switch over to local versions.

Have you not been to any of these cities? Madrid is one of those cities you either love or don't. Personally it leaves me blah. 

Valencia I found much more enjoyable. Alicante? Was okay but I'm not sure I'd pick it first in any list.

If the plan is to drive around the rest of Europe remember it'll take you awhile from anywhere. Even Barcelona IIRC is about three hours from the border. Somebody will correct me.

Final point 300K sounds like a larger nicer home. I'm surprised you can't find something in the two bedroom size for less.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

NickZ said:


> That doesn't sound like a house would be the best option. A house needs to be looked after even when you aren't home. Garden? Pick up the mail? Watch out if somebody tries to break in?
> 
> Every town will have food shops. Ikea? Costco? Sooner or later you'll switch over to local versions.
> 
> ...


Hum, house, yes, maybe hard to look after itself?
I do want to buy local stuff, but I also want big shops, I like big cities, but not a big concern.

> Have you not been to any of these cities?
ahh, no 
Well, we are all different, I guess I must go there and stay for a month or so in a few places, maybe I love it maybe I don't.

> Final point 300K sounds like a larger nicer home. I'm surprised you can't find something in the two bedroom size for less.
Apartment yes, no problem. But with a garage where I can keep tools to maintain a bike, very hard or very far out.
I guess I just need to give up on that and use a shop to do things for me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Stefan66 said:


> Hi!
> I was planning to retire and move to Spain this year, now this covid-19 thingy have put a temporary halt to my plans, but I'm still researching.
> I was originally planning to move to Valencia, since Madrid and Barcelona are too expensive.
> I spoke to some people that basically told me that I really should go and see and that Valencia was not very nice and Madrid was much better.
> ...


I live in the Comunidad de Madrid, not in the city of Madrid. There are houses with garages here for 300.000€ or less. Prices will go down due to Corona Virus aftermath.
The journey to Madrid by public transport is 30 - 40 mins. There are buses after 11:00pm but they are called buhos (owls). You should be able to get timetables from here, but it's not so easy to navigate

https://www.crtm.es/tu-transporte-publico/autobuses-interurbanos/lineas/8__631___.aspx?lang=en
I have no problem getting into Madrid for what I want using public transport and my 26 year old uses it as well at all hours. We never drive into the city, and in fact now they are in the process of closing off the traffic in the city centre (depending on who is in power in local government).
The town itself is not particularly attractive, but it's ok. What I love is being closer to the countryside with the possibilities that Madrid offers within our reach, also useful for employment. See recent photos in photo thread sticky in La Tasca.
A big plus for bikers is the famous Cruz Verde route in the mountains just outside El Escorial. You can probably find it referenced on biker sites. Here's this in Spanish with a map
https://revistaplacet.es/puerto-de-la-cruz-verde-punto-de-encuentro-de-moteros-desde-1970


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

>I live in the Comunidad de Madrid, not in the city of Madrid. There are houses with garages here for 300.000€ or less. Prices will go down due to Corona Virus aftermath.

Thanks, yes I'm expecting prices to go down, we will see.

>The journey to Madrid by public transport is 30 - 40 mins.
That is fine, more than 50 starts to be a bit long.

> ..... but it's not so easy to navigate
I know , I have seen that site before, but I can't make sense out of it.
I need a map to understand, well more research I guess.

>What I love is being closer to the countryside with the possibilities that Madrid offers within our reach, ....
>A big plus for bikers is the famous Cruz Verde route in the mountains just outside El Escorial. You can probably find it referenced on biker sites. Here's this in Spanish with a map
Yes, I have seen the 'Cruz Verde route' and generally as you say the countryside, it looks like a very good compromise between a big city (when I want that) and countryside when I want that.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I live in central Madrid. 300k won't get you a very nice house, otherwise I would have bought it  Your best bet would be to buy a flat and a garage somewhere nearby, but that would take a fair bit of searching. Further out you could take a look along the A6 towards El Escorial as PW suggests. Places like Alpedrete also should have houses for 300k. Also you could try looking at Alcala de Henares further east and Rivas to the south east. The scenery tends to be drier and more barren, but Rivas is on a direct metro line to central Madrid. On the west side there are places like Leganes, Alcorcon and Mostoles where you might pick up a house for 300k I guess. You need to bear in mind that if you don´t speak Spanish you will struggle to integrate in these places.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

To the Northwest of Madrid, you have �Àvila a fabulous place where you should be able to find all that you want.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You could just buy an old van and store the tools inside the van. The van doesn't even need to run. Have it towed to your parking spot.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I live in the suburbs of Madrid, 15 minutes in Metro, which they were planning to make 24 hour service at the weekends, but demand for public transport may be reduced after Covid, so I wouldn't even rely in existing schedules being maintained, forget future increases in service for a short while at least.

I am a "tinkerer" and a biker and live in a flat (no way we could get a house with land / garage where we are for 300k and I've never had that kind of money to buy a property with anyway).

My bike and classic car share a space in a community garage behind my apartment block, it's pretty safe with 24 hour security guard on the door. But working on the vehicles inside is a big no-no. Totally against the rules. 

I used to have access to a private garage outside of Madrid, so when it was time to service or repair the car or bike I used to go there (my wife drove her car with my tools in and we were able to stay there over a weekend so it was quite convenient) but that ended sadly.

Now, with my car, I take it to one of the private "DIY mechanics centers" that there are quite a few of around Madrid. It's not cheap, but you get an elevator, compressed air line, tools etc. Obviously it still much cheaper than taking the car to a mechanic, but as you'll understand, it's not always about the money. Mechanics in Spain are dubious and although my wife's car goes to the dealers for a service being still quite new, I wouldn't let anyone work on my car or bike unless I really had no choice.

I am a bit lucky that my underground parking space is right at the bottom and right at the back of the garage, so although I can't really do a service on the bike in there, the odd job can be done without being noticed. I put the bike on paddock stands behind the car, cover it with a bike cover and work discreetly with the tools in the boot of the car. If I hear anyone approach I pull the cover over the bike and turn to the boot of the car, like I am sorting stuff out in there! Not convenient but it allows me to remove parts, like the forks for example, then I can take them up to my apartment and dismantle them and service the seals etc on my balcony. I take the wheels out like this when it's time for new tyres and take the loose wheels to the tyre fitters in the boot of the car.

I have a fold up workbench, a vice, and all my tools in a big plastic cupboard on the balcony and I can do a lot of stuff there and pack it all away again to enjoy the balcony for what my wife thinks it is for! 

It is also technically illegal to work on vehicles in the street, but again, I do sometimes risk it, if what I need to do doesn't involve draining any liquids. That's where you really have to draw the line. If I am adjusting the chain for example, sometimes I get comments from people that I'm "not supposed to do that here", so I just remain calm and ask back "and what is it that I am I doing here?" Most people just mumble and walk away. One did once say that they were going to call the police, so I just said OK, and asked how long they were going to take to arrive because I was almost done. I offered to give my address if they were going to wait there until the police turned up. In reality, the police have much better things to do.

But, in short, it sounds like you really do want a house with private garage. In Madrid within the Metro network, that's a big ask for 300k, but you could look at the MetroSur area as was mentioned before (Leganes / Mostoles) but they are separate towns, not Madrid city, but they are linked by Metro.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Remember the OP hasn't been to any of the cities on his list.

From the sounds of it. He needs

An airport for travel around Europe.

City life.

A home .

Depending on how much travel and to where he might want to rearrange the order.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Remember the OP hasn't been to any of the cities on his list.
> 
> From the sounds of it. He needs
> 
> ...


 And if he wants it in the "near Madrid City" area, he can get it. As Over and Out says, you need to get further out than the metro, but you could live fairly near to a train station and get that price. Our bus service is very efficient, although it might change according to Over and Out. (I don't think it will, the private car traffic into Madrid is horrendous as it is, and will not withstand more, so if more people try driving their cars in they'll soon change their minds after not being able to get to work on time/ park for a few days). We also have train at 8 mins by car.
The OP says he'll spend a month in each place. I don't think it's enough, but plenty of people take the plunge on less.
For me, it would hinge on the work thing. If you need to work the scenario changes and is very different, but the OP hasn't said anything about yet.
Also, I'm not sure if the OP knows about the conditions that need to be fulfilled pre and post Brexit which could be game changing, and also when travel in and out of Spain and the UK will normalise post Covid 19, if ever!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Also, I'm not sure if the OP knows about the conditions that need to be fulfilled pre and post Brexit which could be game changing, and also when travel in and out of Spain and the UK will normalise post Covid 19, if ever!


We shouldn't assume of course, but going on the OP's username, I suspect that Brexit is not an issue here.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

This thread got me thinking! So I looked out of curiosity at houses with private garages in Leganes.

Most are between the 450k - 600k € mark, but there are some decent looking ones for around 320k asking price. I reckon that for 300 or a bit less you could get it. Maybe a bit of trek walking to the Metro, nice garage though!

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/86702079/


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I still think if the OP is going to be traveling much of the time an apartment would be a better option.

BTW didn't he ask about a small two bedroom? 

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/87934666/

Even that might be bigger than he wants. Would need to rent a garage but

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/86566417/#

That's what I thought of when he said small two bedroom


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

NickZ said:


> I still think if the OP is going to be traveling much of the time an apartment would be a better option.
> 
> BTW didn't he ask about a small two bedroom?
> 
> ...


But to live in a 2 bedroomed apartment with no garage or garden he might as well live in Madrid city surely?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

It makes more sense to me.


Now I've no idea if it makes more sense to him but it sounds like he's not bringing a family with him. That he won't be home much. I don't know if he wants a large place that will just sit empty.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

NickZ said:


> It makes more sense to me.
> 
> 
> Now I've no idea if it makes more sense to him but it sounds like he's not bringing a family with him. That he won't be home much. I don't know if he wants a large place that will just sit empty.


 Having a house outside of a city doesn't = a large place. I know of flats in Spain far larger than my house.
Anyway, why hypothesize? The OP will decide.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Chopera said:


> I live in central Madrid. 300k won't get you a very nice house, otherwise I would have bought it  Your best bet would be to buy a flat and a garage somewhere nearby, but that would take a fair bit of searching. Further out you could take a look along the A6 towards El Escorial as PW suggests. Places like Alpedrete also should have houses for 300k. Also you could try looking at Alcala de Henares further east and Rivas to the south east. The scenery tends to be drier and more barren, but Rivas is on a direct metro line to central Madrid. On the west side there are places like Leganes, Alcorcon and Mostoles where you might pick up a house for 300k I guess. You need to bear in mind that if you don´t speak Spanish you will struggle to integrate in these places.


Thanks, I must admit that the Spanish is nonexisting at the moment, trying to learn, but hard when you don't have the chance to speak.
Good point though.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Overandout said:


> I live in the suburbs of Madrid, 15 minutes in Metro, which they were planning to make 24 hour service at the weekends, but demand for public transport may be reduced after Covid, so I wouldn't even rely in existing schedules being maintained, forget future increases in service for a short while at least.
> 
> I am a "tinkerer" and a biker and live in a flat (no way we could get a house with land / garage where we are for 300k and I've never had that kind of money to buy a property with anyway).
> 
> ...


Many good ideas. Thinking this is how it has to be done, some of the other places that others have suggested looks good, but it quite far out? 

If you are a bit picky when you choose the apartment and make sure you have a decent balcony and a big car park I guess what you are doing would be quite fine.

300k is not really a comfortable value, more an absolute maximum.

I really need to go look at these places to know where I feel comfortable with, thanks a lot!


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

NickZ said:


> Remember the OP hasn't been to any of the cities on his list.
> 
> From the sounds of it. He needs
> 
> ...


Yes, that is what I struggle with, I want big house close to Madrid city with Alicante weather and not to pay for it 
But understand that it is impossible but I don't really know what my priorities are, I don't really need or even want the big house, so Overandouts description on who he does it in an apartment sounds like a very good compromise. I did not really think like that, I think I can be ok with that.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And if he wants it in the "near Madrid City" area, he can get it. As Over and Out says, you need to get further out than the metro, but you could live fairly near to a train station and get that price. Our bus service is very efficient, although it might change according to Over and Out. (I don't think it will, the private car traffic into Madrid is horrendous as it is, and will not withstand more, so if more people try driving their cars in they'll soon change their minds after not being able to get to work on time/ park for a few days). We also have train at 8 mins by car.
> The OP says he'll spend a month in each place. I don't think it's enough, but plenty of people take the plunge on less.
> For me, it would hinge on the work thing. If you need to work the scenario changes and is very different, but the OP hasn't said anything about yet.
> Also, I'm not sure if the OP knows about the conditions that need to be fulfilled pre and post Brexit which could be game changing, and also when travel in and out of Spain and the UK will normalise post Covid 19, if ever!


I will retire, which means I don't need to work. (at least I hope so  )
I'm not British, but an EU citizen or at least I have an EU passport, so that should not be any problem. I have done that research (I think) and should be ok.

One month in each place was an idea, I don't know, maybe I decide faster, maybe not.
Also, I'm almost certain that I will not buy a place after the 1 month in each place.
I will rent for 6-12 month, and then after a few months, start looking for where to buy.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Overandout said:


> We shouldn't assume of course, but going on the OP's username, I suspect that Brexit is not an issue here.


Now I have more than 5 posts and could set my country/location, and yes you are right


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Stefan66 said:


> Now I have more than 5 posts and could set my country/location, and yes you are right


Did you intend Singapore or was it an ooooppppps?


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Overandout said:


> This thread got me thinking! So I looked out of curiosity at houses with private garages in Leganes.
> 
> Most are between the 450k - 600k € mark, but there are some decent looking ones for around 320k asking price. I reckon that for 300 or a bit less you could get it. Maybe a bit of trek walking to the Metro, nice garage though!
> 
> https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/86702079/


Very nice garage!!!!
That's what I was dreaming about, but sorry 300k is what I might stretch myself to pay, that would include the taxes. So the market must crash a lot for that to happen .....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

If you don't need to work, Why live in a big city? The prices are inflated because of those who, because of work, need to be in a big city. Get out a bit and enjoy more of what Spain has to offer and I can assure you that it is a lot more than what the big cities can offer you, then just visit those cities when you want/need to.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

baldilocks said:


> Did you intend Singapore or was it an ooooppppps?


I have lived in Singapore for over 20 years now, it was never intended to become so long, but going here was an opportunity, not planned in any way. But it is becoming time to move.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

baldilocks said:


> If you don't need to work, Why live in a big city? The prices are inflated because of those who, because of work, need to be in a big city. Get out a bit and enjoy more of what Spain has to offer and I can assure you that it is a lot more than what the big cities can offer you, then just visit those cities when you want/need to.


I like big cities.
I seriously planned to move to a farm out in the middle of nowhere in Portugal for a long time, but I know I would not be able to take it, I would love it for 6 months, then I would go crazy.
I need to be able to walk around in a big city, to go to a new restaurant, a new shopping centre, feel the buzz o the city. I know it is useless, but I like it.
I intend to ride around and see as much of Spain and Europe as I can, on day trips and 1-2 nights and longer trips, to the south, the north, the north-west, to costas, the other cities. Plenty of time to do that.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

For what it's worth, I think you are taking a good approach to your requirements.

I would love a garage like the one I linked to, but I'm not prepared to live so far outside Madrid. Living in Madrid is very pleasurable, it surely must be one of the most accessible and easy going capital cities of the western world. It has a huge cultural offering available 365 days a year.

I have know many people who have moved out of the town to surrounding towns, usually to get a bigger house, and they all start by saying "we'll still be able to go into Madrid whenever we want, it's only 50 minutes on the train / bus or 25€ in a taxi", but two years later, they've done it once or twice.

If I ever can or want to leave Madrid to enjoy a different style of life, I won't do it close by, I would go to somewhere completely different.

I think that for people like us, a decent size balcony is a must. I spend a lot of time out there (not always working on stuff, just having a beer, or my breakfast, but you do have to take the weather into account! After 15.00 in summer I struggle to stand the heat on mine, and in winter there are days / weeks that I can't go out at all!


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Overandout said:


> For what it's worth, I think you are taking a good approach to your requirements.
> 
> I would love a garage like the one I linked to, but I'm not prepared to live so far outside Madrid. Living in Madrid is very pleasurable, it surely must be one of the most accessible and easy going capital cities of the western world. It has a huge cultural offering available 365 days a year.
> 
> ...


Thanks!
I want to be able to go into the city quite fast, that's why I said less than 40-50 minutes. But even that is quite long.
I think that your description of how you handle your bike in an apartment at least have made me think that I will be ok in an apartment.
we will see how it goes, let's get this virus out of the way ASAP!!!!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

FWIW for 300k you should be able to find a modern 2 bed apartment in central Madrid, with an underground parking space, and a communal pool and gym thrown in. 

As was previously mentioned, Madrid is fantastic for city life. Considering it is a major European capital, it is still cheap and safe, and with plenty going on. You really don't need to be particularly wealthy to be able to live centrally and go out regularly.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

The thing nobody has mentioned is that your flat needs to have a "trastero", this is a lockable storage area down in the underground parking zone of blocks of flats. Not all buildings have them, but a lot do. 
Ours is a godsend and would easily take a motor bike, but I wouldn't want to work on anything in there as the atmosphere wouldn't be too pleasant at the end of a day's work.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

ccm47 said:


> The thing nobody has mentioned is that your flat needs to have a "trastero", this is a lockable storage area down in the underground parking zone of blocks of flats. Not all buildings have them, but a lot do.
> Ours is a godsend and would easily take a motor bike, but I wouldn't want to work on anything in there as the atmosphere wouldn't be too pleasant at the end of a day's work.


Great point. 

Our community garage was built after the blocks it serves so it isn't actually connected, but we do have a basement in the block with a trastero, and it is very very useful for storing stuff. 
The problem is that the access is by stairs only, not that this has stopped me from keeping a motorbike in it... It's been there for three years, and if I'm honest, it will probably stay there for a few more at least.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

If you google mobile motorcycle mechanic you'll see plenty of photos of people working out of their vans. Can't you roll a bike into a transit van? Close the doors and work inside.


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

Stefan66 said:


> Hi!
> I was planning to retire and move to Spain this year, now this covid-19 thingy have put a temporary halt to my plans, but I'm still researching.
> I was originally planning to move to Valencia, since Madrid and Barcelona are too expensive.


Hi. 

I live in Valencia (or 20 mins away) because we found Madrid and Barcelona too expensive. We too have a car and a treasured motorcycle.



Stefan66 said:


> I spoke to some people that basically told me that I really should go and see and that Valencia was not very nice and Madrid was much better.


Eh? Be careful who you listen to. Everyone has an agenda. We are all trying to self-justify (yes, me to). By all means listen to other thoughts, but do your own research, after all, you will have to live with your choices.

Valencia (IMHO) is a nice place. Yes, it's not as big or as cosmopolitan as the bigger two cities, but its a nice city to live in. Its has a much kinder climate than madrid. People are more chilled and happier than the other two (I think this is a by product of the cheaper cost of living, but I do not know). Barcelona has more language grief, as you would be better off learning Catalan as well as spanish. Barcelona also has more tourists, which is not so great. 



Stefan66 said:


> Would I be OK in Alicante? or Valencia?
> Is there a way to maintain a motorcycle in a apartment? I have tried to find a way to rent or buy a garage, but very few have 4 walls around them, so it would be impossible to keep tools.


Yes, both are nice places. Alicante is probably an easier place to live in if you do not speak spanish (I do not) as they are more used to brits there, but its not a patch on Valencia, being much smaller. Both are surrounded by fantastic biking roads. Both have lovely climates (sunny, not too hot in the summer, not too cold in the winter). Both have airports, but Alicante's is bigger. 

In Valencia it is easy to hire a space in a nice safe underground car park close to one's flat. Higher end flats would come with basement parking, and often a Soltano (an underground storage room) that you can use for tools. 

The spanish like flats, and most have never really got their heads around the concept of commuting, so we found it very much cheaper to buy a house just outside the town rather than a flat in town. You would have no trouble finding a house with a garage on the Valencian tube network.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

That's a good post.

I purposely stayed away from comparisons of cities because people can get quite offended at times, but I have to say that I agree with Roland O's comments on Barcelona. I've only been a few times and it is visually beautiful, but I'm sorry to say that I found that it had a "theme park" type feel about it.

I have discussed this with people who live there though, and most say that it isn't really an issue because they don't go the same places as the tourists. The residents' lives don't really cross over with the tourists.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I love Barcelona. I love Valencia. I love Seville. In all three I find the people welcoming . 

I know people who feel the exact opposite. I'm right and they're wrong -)


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

BTW I tried pointing this out earlier. The OP has mentioned wanting to drive around Europe. The further south you go the harder that will be. The OP needs to figure out if that matters or not.


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

Stefan66 said:


> I like big cities.
> I seriously planned to move to a farm out in the middle of nowhere in Portugal for a long time, but I know I would not be able to take it, I would love it for 6 months, then I would go crazy.
> I need to be able to walk around in a big city, to go to a new restaurant, a new shopping centre, feel the buzz o the city. I know it is useless, but I like it.
> I intend to ride around and see as much of Spain and Europe as I can, on day trips and 1-2 nights and longer trips, to the south, the north, the north-west, to costas, the other cities. Plenty of time to do that.


I just want to stress how right you are. I have lived in London, Singapore and New York and used to dream of a bit of peace and quiet, no neighbour hassle, and as I am an extreme introvert (loving the Corona Virus lockdown) thought a rural retreat would be just for me. 

So when I stopped working, we moved to the middle of wales. Our private drive was a mile long. The nearest cinema was over an hour away by car. Boy was it quiet. With weeks we realised we had messed up and within a year we were going mad. 

Many of us are a bit over stimulated at work, and long for a bit of peace, but once you stop working full time (I do part time) you start to need the stimulation, the buzz of a city. You have more time, and so need more things to do. 

To prove my point, trying going into an urbanisation club / bar around Denia and see 20 faces swivel to look at you as you walk in - desperate for something new to happen in their life. Shudder. Don't do that to yourself.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

> I live in Valencia (or 20 mins away) because we found Madrid and Barcelona too expensive.
Yes, there are lots of nice places 20 minutes from Valencia!

> but do your own research
Yes, I realise that all I can do is research, I need to go to these places and check them out in person.

>Valencia (IMHO) is a nice place. Yes, it's not as big or as cosmopolitan as the bigger two cities, but it's a nice city to live in. Its has a much kinder climate than Madrid. 
I decided on Valencia as a 'compromise' between the size of Madrid and climate of Alicante or further down the coast and most importantly the cost. I have looked a bit again and it can actually be below zero in Madrid in the winter, that is not what I want 

>Barcelona has more language grief,
Yes, even though it is a better climate and location, I have decided against Barcelona due to the languages and political climate. Just to many choices 

>Yes, both are nice places. Alicante is probably an easier place to live in if you do not speak spanish (I do not) as they are more used to brits there, but its not a patch on Valencia, being much smaller.
Yes, the size was the reason why I choose Valencia as my first choice ....

Thanks for very worthwhile comments, but I'm more confused


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

NickZ said:


> BTW I tried pointing this out earlier. The OP has mentioned wanting to drive around Europe. The further south you go the harder that will be. The OP needs to figure out if that matters or not.


That is why Alicante is as far south as I have considered.
But I also plan to ride around Spain, Portugal and Marocco, so maybe it doesn't matter so much, it will even itself out.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Roland_O said:


> I just want to stress how right you are. I have lived in London, Singapore and New York and used to dream of a bit of peace and quiet, no neighbour hassle, and as I am an extreme introvert (loving the Corona Virus lockdown) thought a rural retreat would be just for me.
> 
> So when I stopped working, we moved to the middle of wales. Our private drive was a mile long. The nearest cinema was over an hour away by car. Boy was it quiet. With weeks we realised we had messed up and within a year we were going mad.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think that would be me.
I was looking for 'farms' for 1 year in Portugal, but the more I was thinking about it the more I realised that I would not be able to take it.

I live <10 minutes from Orchard Road, <15 from each coast park and can get to anywhere in Singapore in less than <30 minutes (yes it is that small ), to live 20 minutes from a small village and 1+ hour from the closes city would not work for me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Stefan - quick tip... To quote the person you are replying to, just click on *reply with quote.* 

If you want to quote several posts, click *quote off* on as many posts as you need to and on the last one click *reply with quote*
Make sit easier for us to follow too 
You are right about Madrid going below oº in the winter. For the moment I like it, might change as I get older... The last few winters have been very mild with little snow, global warming I expect. 

I don't like the climate in Valencia, it's really humid and in the summer overwhelmingly so. Everything feels damp and floppy, clothes are never crisp, paper neither and it's very "sweaty". I presume people get used to it. It's the total opposite to Madrid which is very dry. When I first came here I used to get cuts on the inside of my nostrils it was so dry.


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## Stefan66 (May 3, 2020)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Stefan - quick tip... To quote the person you are replying to, just click on *reply with quote.*


Thanks, not sure I understand the off quote, I will test, Thanks.
What I'm trying to do is respond to individual lines from ONE post, I know that what I did looks terrible, I will try something here, see if it works? (tested in preview, looks ok?)



Pesky Wesky said:


> If you want to quote several posts, click *quote off* on as many posts as you need to and on the last one click *reply with quote*
> Make sit easier for us to follow too
> You are right about Madrid going below oº in the winter. For the moment I like it, might change as I get older... The last few winters have been very mild with little snow, global warming I expect.
> 
> I don't like the climate in Valencia, it's really humid and in the summer overwhelmingly so. Everything feels damp and floppy, clothes are never crisp, paper neither and it's very "sweaty". I presume people get used to it. It's the total opposite of Madrid which is very dry. When I first came here I used to get cuts on the inside of my nostrils it was so dry.


OK, I know about humidity, I understand what you are saying, but living in Singapore with an average of 84% humidity I'm used to it, and valencias 60-70% should be a step in the right direction 
But, yes when I moved here, it was terrible, but it becomes better after a few years
Then in Singapore sometimes it becomes as cold as 23-24C, then I start to freeze  So I'm not sure if I can take 0C anymore


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