# Moving to Ensenada



## nikki_p (Apr 12, 2013)

Hello,
We are thinking about moving to Ensenada for several months to a year. I've been there a couple of times and liked it very much. But other than that I have no clue what we're getting into. Is it safe in Ensenada? It will be me, my husband and our baby girl, so I am a little worried how safe it will be for her. We will be driving through San Diego, but I think that road is safe... What are some of the things to look out for? What are some safe areas to rent a condo or house? Are there any hospitals nearby in case anything happens? And one crazy question - do they kidnap babies in Mexico? I know this is crazy, but I am a paranoid new mom, please bear with me  
Also, I read a couple of places about 6 month tourist visa, last time I went into Mexico there wasn't anyone at the border going into mexico to stamp my passport or anything like that, so how do they know how long I've been there?
Thank you!


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

If you're that worried about safety and crime in Mexico, why are you even considering moving and moving for financial reasons is not a good reason unless you are fluent in Spanish and done more than a couple of visits to Mexico.
Perhaps you should do a comparison of violence in the U.S. and Mexico and see the results. There are Baja forums (find on Google search) which you definitely need to do serious research as most here are on the Mexico mainland which is different from Baja.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

mes1952 said:


> If you're that worried about safety and crime in Mexico, why are you even considering moving.......


My thoughts exactly. The OP acknowledged that the question about kidnapping babies was "crazy", but asked it anyway, suggesting very clearly that Mexico shouldn't be a serious consideration for them.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

Unfortunately those who are worried about crime in Mexico have no idea of the crime in the U.S. but instead ignore it. And in the U.S. is simply random killings rather than drug-related as in Mexico.
One Nation Under The Gun: Thousands Of Gun Deaths Since Newtown

This is one reason so many American in Baja are confined in their apartments, houses, gated communities, etc. is that they are focused on Mexico crime rather than world-wide.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

mes1952 said:


> Unfortunately those who are worried about crime in Mexico have no idea of the crime in the U.S. but instead ignore it. And in the U.S. is simply random killings rather than drug-related as in Mexico.
> One Nation Under The Gun: Thousands Of Gun Deaths Since Newtown
> 
> This is one reason so many American in Baja are confined in their apartments, houses, gated communities, etc. is that they are focused on Mexico crime rather than world-wide.


Are you saying that many Americans (but not Canadians?) living in Baja are so afraid of the dangers lurking outside their homes that they rarely venture outside them? What a terrible way to live!


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

From reading some of the Baja forums I believe many folks from NOTB have already left, nobody talks about crime in Rosarita during spring break, hijacking along Highway 1D or sabotage to ****** racers during the 1000 or 500 mile races...


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

There are not many Canadians here; probably a little too "Americanized" for them as they usually go on the gulf side. I've traveled all over Mexico and, for some reason, the Americans here on the Baja side (at least in Baja Norte) are different from other beach communities; few of them here assimilate into the local culture and are more hermit-like. Another reason perhaps is that many Americans who cross the border into Tijuana and just beyond move here because they have financial problems (many are on SS, SSI and welfare and unemployment) and don't have a vehicle which is almost a must in Baja as everything is very spread out.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

Yep...and most Americans don't read the local newspapers (because th're in Spanish and they don't understand Spanish) so they don't know what is going on related to crime. Several months ago there were female body parts washed up on one of the beaches here in Rosarito and I did not encounter one single American who knew about it because it was in the papers or on the Spanish news stations. I believe a major problem here in Baja North is Tijuana which has the most drug addicts (and deportees) in Mexico so those 2 elements spill over into Rosarito and other areas.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

mes1952 said:


> There are not many Canadians here; probably a little too "Americanized" for them as they usually go on the gulf side. I've traveled all over Mexico and, for some reason, the Americans here on the Baja side (at least in Baja Norte) are different from other beach communities; few of them here assimilate into the local culture and are more hermit-like. Another reason perhaps is that many Americans who cross the border into Tijuana and just beyond move here because they have financial problems (many are on SS, SSI and welfare and unemployment) and don't have a vehicle which is almost a must in Baja as everything is very spread out.


Maybe another reason they don't try to become part of the local community is that they moved to Baja for financial reasons, not because they have any desire to live in Mexico for its own sake. If they had more money, they might not be there at all!


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

nikki_p said:


> I have no clue what we're getting into.


In that case, get a clue first. Take small steps. Maybe a two-week vacation? As a general rule, the first place you land will not be to your liking so don't make it a commitment, make it a pied-à-terre.



> Is it safe in Ensenada? It will be me, my husband and our baby girl, so I am a little worried how safe it will be for her.


Here in Mexico, everybody loves babies. Don't know what to say about you and your husband.



> We will be driving through San Diego, but I think that road is safe... What are some of the things to look out for?


Most of Los Angeles is dangerous ... our favorite gynecologist died there ... the Orange County "Y" (where the two freeways meet) is always a problem ... North County in San Diego is congested and accident-prone and the S-curve near downtown is no fun. Once you get into Mexico there's a toll road, the 1-D, that gives you free auto insurance with every toll you pay.



> What are some safe areas to rent a condo or house? Are there any hospitals nearby in case anything happens?


Ask the owner of Mi Kaza Restaurant. He likes to give free advice that is never taken. Also try Ensenada.Net :: El Portal de la Ciudad



> And one crazy question - do they kidnap babies in Mexico? I know this is crazy


Here in Mexico we threaten to sell disobedient children to the gringos so, no, it's not crazy so much as it's culturally ignorant (and, if you can't tell by my tone, somewhat offensive). If you have to ask such a question, you need to get a better grasp of the culture first.



> Also, I read a couple of places about 6 month tourist visa, last time I went into Mexico there wasn't anyone at the border going into mexico to stamp my passport or anything like that, so how do they know how long I've been there?


The only way "they" will know how long you've been here is if you take out an FMM tourist card. And you're right, no one at the border stamps your passport -- the local authorities assume you'll be here for a week or less. So you can effectively stay in Baja California (and northern Sonora) for as long as you want so long as no one denounces you to the immigration authorities. 

If you need to do anything official, like buy a house, then you'll certainly want to have an FMM at FM3 or FM2 level. That should be a long way off. And there are people in Ensenada who can help you with that when it becomes an issue.

You might also find some more advice on The Real Tijuana -- they have a long item on passports and some commentary about undocumented gringos.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

arturo_b said:


> If you need to do anything official, like buy a house, then you'll certainly want to have an FMM at FM3 or FM2 level. That should be a long way off. And there are people in Ensenada who can help you with that when it becomes an issue.


Let's get the nomenclature straight, ok? An FMM is a tourist card. What used to be called an FM3 or FM2 (they were phased out 3 years ago, by the way) are now Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente visas. They are what people who intend to make Mexico their home need to get from Mexican Immigration, known as INM (Instituto Nacional de Migración) in Spanish.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

arturo_b states: 
If you need to do anything official, like buy a house, then you'll certainly want to have an FMM at FM3 or FM2 level. That should be a long way off. And there are people in Ensenada who can help you with that when it becomes an issue."

You can purchase real estate in Mexico with only an FMM or tourist permit...


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

The FMM is the Formulario Migratorio Múltiple. The last word refers to its inclusion of the FMT, the FM3, and the FM2 all in one formulario. The FMM is issued for all three conditions.

Those who live outside of Mexico can get an FMM from their nearest Mexican consulate. Those who come to Baja California don´t really need to get one except for official purposes.

The status authorized by the FMT, FM3, and FM2 are all non-immigrant: six-month tourist, transitory resident, and landed resident respectively. These statuses have not changed appreciably with the introduction of the FMM although their formal legal terminology is slightly different from before. Be that as it may, everyone I know -- including the employees of the SRE and INM -- has continued to use the terms FMT, FM3, and FM2 colloquially to refer to these preliminary stages of immigration. You are welcome to call them whatever you wish, as well, so long as we understand the equivalences.


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

chicois8 said:


> arturo_b states:
> You can purchase real estate in Mexico with only an FMM or tourist permit...


In Baja California, foreigners buy real estate through a bank trust because the Constitution forbids their owning land too close to the country´s borders. For a bank trust, a foreigner needs a valid FMM. Off-hand, I can´t say whether that FMM needs to be at FM3 level or better or if they´ll accept one at FMT level. The legal issue is that Segob needs to establish jurisdiction over the persons involved in the transaction.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

arturo, all I am is pointing out that you wrote to buy a house you need to be at an FM2or FM3 visa and I am saying you are incorrect, you can buy a house with only a 180 day tourist card...FMT have not been used in years...

more of your miss information is : Those who come to Baja California don´t really need to get one except for official purposes."
WRONG, you do not need on if you are spending less than 72 hours in the frontera zone, An FMM is free for up to 7days, any time you must pay the 294 peso fee...


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

I wonder if there´s any way I can change my title from "Senior Expat" to "Miss Information". I would like that.



chicois8 said:


> more of your miss information is : Those who come to Baja California don´t really need to get one except for official purposes."
> WRONG, you do not need on if you are spending less than 72 hours in the frontera zone, An FMM is free for up to 7days, any time you must pay the 294 peso fee...


People who enter Mexico by land or sea do not need an FMM of any sort. They are considered ephemeral. I´ve forgotten the legal term that is used for this type of tourist, but it is not "turista". The "turista" gets up to six months and the run of the country.

These ephemeral visitors used to have a limit of seventy-two hours and fifty kilometers (except here in Baja California, where they were allowed as far south as Maneadero, which is a bit over a hundred kilometers south of the border). To exceed either limit, one was required to take out an FMT at no cost and to relinquish their FMT on leaving Mexico.

In 2010, the three non-immigrant forms of INM (the FMT, FM3, and FM2) were rolled into one form, the FMM. One now has to read the FMM to see which sort of permission is being authorized. Amid the confusion of this change, we found the INM began charging for the FMT level of migratory permission and we found that the limit on ephemeral visitors was raised from three days to one week.

So take it from me, your very own Miss Information, that ephemeral visitors can come to Tijuana or Ensenada and stay for up to a week without any tourist document whatsoever. These people are the mainstay of our local tourism: it would be impossible to require a tourist permit (FMT, FMM-Turista, or whatever term you think I should use) of them, nor to make them pay for such a privilege.

What this means to the OP is that she can drive down those dangerous freeways of southern California to visit Ensenada without worrying about visas, passports, or tourist permits. She can stay in Ensenada for as long as she needs to look for a place to live, also without having to worry about any such documentation. 

Eventually, when it comes time for OP to buy a house or condo, she will need to open a bank trust for which she will need to establish herself as a _persona física_ subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico by means of some sort of FMM. That is something her real-estate agent should deal with: that´s what they´re there for.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

arturo_b said:


> In 2010, the three non-immigrant forms of INM (the FMT, FM3, and FM2) were rolled into one form, the FMM. One now has to read the FMM to see which sort of permission is being authorized. Amid the confusion of this change, we found the INM began charging for the FMT level of migratory permission and we found that the limit on ephemeral visitors was raised from three days to one week.


The FMM and the RT and RP cards have not been, as you put, rolled into one form. The FMM is a tourist card. For statistical purposes, it is also filled out by expats resident in Mexico leaving and entering the country. It costs something like $23 US and is given to travelers at airports and other points of entry to the country. The Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente cards (which for some reason you insist on calling FM3 and FM2) must be applied for at either a Mexican Consulate or in Mexico at the nearest INM office, depending on personal circumstances. The application requires a ton of paperwork to be filed and the payment of fairly substantial fees of several thousand pesos, again depending on your situation. I hope this is clear.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks Isla, I think Miss arturo is living in the past knowing nothing about the recent changes in immigration rules...


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Thanks Isla, I think Miss arturo is living in the past knowing nothing about the recent changes in immigration rules...


That's what I was thinking too  .


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks again Isla, and you are correct,Mexico is in North America.......


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Thanks again Isla, and you are correct,Mexico is in North America.......


You're welcome! Maps and atlases are some of my favorite reading matter - that's how I know where Mexico is.


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> The FMM and the RT and RP cards have not been, as you put, rolled into one form.


Well, that's how the INM agents described it back in 2010 when I interviewed them about the big change. 

These were line agents at the Puerto México (San Ysidro) port of entry, so they were describing the situation as they were instructed to enforce it. The immigration law suffered subsequent changes in September and November of 2012. Now I see that the FMM is strictly a single-entry authorization, which makes it inappropriate for FM3 and FM2 statuses.



> The Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente cards (which for some reason you insist on calling FM3 and FM2)


The reason is because that's what everyone I talk to calls them. We all know we're using shorthand -- the "F" means _formulario _(for which INM now uses both _forma _and _formato_, offending the DRAE in both usages) and we're not really talking about bureaucratic forms, we're talking about the migratory status conferred from the approval of those forms. Like, green cards stopped being green in the 1980s but we still use the term, you know?

Here's what an immigration attorney in Mexico has to say about the matter:
Migracion - FMM - Visasmex - Batres Nieto Abogados Asociados, SC

So I stand corrected in that the FMM is not FMT, FM3, and FM2 all rolled into one. Nonetheless, you can't get an FM3 or an FM2 without first getting an FMM, so our OP will have to get an FMM if she intends to buy property in Baja California. Whether she will also have to exchange her FMM for an FM3 I can't say, but her intentions imply an FM2.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

It takes a big person to admit they were wrong, you wrote...
" So I stand corrected in that the FMM is not FMT, FM3, and FM2 all rolled into one. Nonetheless, you can't get an FM3 or an FM2 without first getting an FMM, so our OP will have to get an FMM if she intends to buy property in Baja California. Whether she will also have to exchange her FMM for an FM3 I can't say, but her intentions imply an FM2.

well you are wrong again, to get a Resident Temporal or Permanente ( your FM3-Fm2) now in 2013 a person has to start the process at the nearest Mexican Consulate to their place of residence...they finish the process by entering Mexico and within 30 days going to their local INM office.......

Your link to a lawyer is outdated also, the new FMM form looks nothing like the example he describes and shows...

And hopefully one last thing, I own a beach house ( with fidecomiso) and a ranch (with escatura) in Mexico and both were bought using an FMM....


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