# solar panels



## macg (Feb 11, 2017)

We purchased a villa in Torrox back in May of this year, with a large bank of solar panels having been installed by the previous owner, with these panels currently set up only to sell back any energy / electricity generated to an electrical supplier.
Our lawyer in Nerja is having a lot of problems having the contract for the sale of energy / electricity generated from the solar panels put into our name and we currently are getting nothing from these panels. Obviously the amount of energy / electricity generated from the solar panels is determined by the quantity of panels, but does anyone know what sort of income could be generated in this way and given that I believe that there was a change to the laws recently, is this income taxable.
As the panels are quite large and sit proud of the roof, they are quite ugly and my wife would prefer to have them removed, but we would have to weigh up the pro's and con;s to retain them.
Another option might be to switch away from selling the energy / electricity and to use this power instead for our own use, especially as we are contemplating putting in a pool and might have the option of using the panels for heating the pool. I am unaware of what would be required to make this switch, but would presume that hardware such as batteries would be required to be purchased.

any help on this topic would be greatly appreciated
thanks, Graham


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## wesdunn1977 (Nov 29, 2017)

You could also use the panels you have to heat the water in your home, I doubt the pool will need heating most of the year when It's warm enough to swim. you have two different types of Solar Power, Photovoltaic and Thermal.. Sounds like you would need different batteries to heat any water with your current set up.. My good friend is an expert with Solar Power but not in your part unfortunately. he tells me it's not really taking off here because the Spanish Government are taxing the energy you are generating.. Best of luck, sure there is a good solar power firm there that can better advise you..


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I am no expert on this either, but the "sun tax" is certainly what stops many Spanish people from using solar power, and of course as soon as you connect to the grid to sell your power back, you cannot take the dubious, but common, route of "doing it on the quiet".

By the way, I am not condoning tax evasion, but I know of several Spanish people who have small holiday homes that are 100% self sufficient with solar panels, but they mount them temporarily so as not to "get caught", then take them down when they are not there.


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## sadlybroke (Jun 19, 2012)

My understanding is that even if you produce electricity for yourself, you have to pay the usual rates plus an extra tax on top of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

sadlybroke said:


> My understanding is that even if you produce electricity for yourself, you have to pay the usual rates plus an extra tax on top of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


You only pay if you are connected to the grid and also have panels


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I am no expert on this either, but the "sun tax" is certainly what stops many Spanish people from using solar power, and of course as soon as you connect to the grid to sell your power back, you cannot take the dubious, but common, route of "doing it on the quiet".
> 
> By the way, I am not condoning tax evasion, but I know of several Spanish people who have small holiday homes that are 100% self sufficient with solar panels, but they mount them temporarily so as not to "get caught", then take them down when they are not there.


https://www.mariscal-abogados.com/sun-tax-on-photovoltaic-systems-in-spain/

I don’t know why, because off grid are exempt 



> According to Spain’s Photovoltaic Union (UNEF), the new law requires self-consumption PV system owners to pay the same grid fees that all electricity consumers in Spain pay, plus a so-called ‘sun tax‘.
> 
> Regulations
> 
> ...


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> https://www.mariscal-abogados.com/sun-tax-on-photovoltaic-systems-in-spain/
> 
> I don’t know why, because off grid are exempt


Of the two people I have in mind, one is certainly "on grid" but whislt the house is in use at least, they fully rely on the "portable" panels, the other, I am not sure.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> Of the two people I have in mind, one is certainly "on grid" but whislt the house is in use at least, they fully rely on the "portable" panels, the other, I am not sure.


On grid different AFAIK. There was a lot of noise about how off grid people would be taxed... it may come... but I doubt it, we are 8 km from nearest pylon....


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## macg (Feb 11, 2017)

we are across in Spain for good at the end of December and plan to meet up with several people / companies so that we can fully evaluate our options, either for sell back of electricity, our own use or removal of the panels. Previous comments have been very useful and gives us more information ahead of these meetings
many thanks
Graham


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

There are two fundamentally different types of panels;

Photo voltaic systems which generate electricity from the light of the sun which you can store in batteries, use to power your lights and other electrical appliances or sell back to the grid, or any combination of all three.

Heated water systems which consist of a water filled panel and storage tank, circulation pump, pipes and heat exchangers which are heated by the radiated heat of the sun to produce hot water for the house or to heat a swimming pool. 

The functions of the two types are not interchangeable in practice.

I guess you have the first type and therefore they will not be suitable for heating a pool.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Good news - the EU have declared that the Spanish government cannot tax domestic solar energy because it is contrary to the renewable energy targets.

https://plataforma.quieroauditoriae...goria-blog-1/297-bruselas-fusila-impuesto-sol


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Good news - the EU have declared that the Spanish government cannot tax domestic solar energy because it is contrary to the renewable energy targets.
> 
> https://plataforma.quieroauditoriae...goria-blog-1/297-bruselas-fusila-impuesto-sol


At first glance good news, but let's put this in context:

The PP's "extra salaries" and expenses are illegal, their infrastructure projects are riddled with corruption and also illegal technically, their method of party financing is illegal, they are not complying with some EU Directives which have been obligatory for member states for over a year at least ....

Do you think that this EU "ruling" will have any effect whatsoever?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Overandout said:


> At first glance good news, but let's put this in context:
> 
> The PP's "extra salaries" and expenses are illegal, their infrastructure projects are riddled with corruption and also illegal technically, their method of party financing is illegal, they are not complying with some EU Directives which have been obligatory for member states for over a year at least ....
> 
> Do you think that this EU "ruling" will have any effect whatsoever?


I think it will, eventually. The bill has already been watered down a lot due to opposition from within Spain. It would be good if consumers were to gang up and refuse to pay the tax, then take the case to the ECJ, which should back them up.


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

jimenato said:


> I guess you have the first type and therefore they will not be suitable for heating a pool.


You could use them with a heat pump - https://energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-swimming-pool-heaters

Like a fridge in reverse. You could probably use them with air-con if you have enough to cool and heat the house.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xgarb said:


> You could use them with a heat pump - https://energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-swimming-pool-heaters
> 
> Like a fridge in reverse. You could probably use them with air-con if you have enough to cool and heat the house.


Not related to solar, but an engineer I worked with used a heat exchanger set up to draw the cold from his outdoor pool in France and blow it onto the terrace of the summer house like an air-con system. 

In turn that heated the pool a bit. He was pretty happy with it, but I didn't get to try it unfortunately.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xgarb said:


> You could use them with a heat pump - https://energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-swimming-pool-heaters
> 
> Like a fridge in reverse. You could probably use them with air-con if you have enough to cool and heat the house.


Yes - that's a possibility.

Someone I knew wanted to use the electricity generated by his solar panels to heat his pool directly - that would not have worked.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Well I managed to fool the government with my solar panels. I buried them underground.


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## Poloss (Feb 2, 2017)

thrax said:


> Well I managed to fool the government with my solar panels. I buried them underground.


No you didn't.
Drones with infra red cameras can detect them


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Poloss said:


> No you didn't.
> Drones with infra red cameras can detect them


Yes I did too coz as they are underground they can't see the sun so I don't bother to switch them on. So there...


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

thrax said:


> Yes I did too coz as they are underground they can't see the sun so I don't bother to switch them on. So there...


...but be careful - they'll be working geo-thermally so are probably still detectable.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

thrax said:


> Yes I did too coz as they are underground they can't see the sun so I don't bother to switch them on. So there...


Only if I switch them on....


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## Poloss (Feb 2, 2017)

thrax said:


> Only if I switch them on....


...at night.
You can switch them on at night - the drones won't be hunting for underground solar panels at night.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Poloss said:


> ...at night.
> You can switch them on at night - the drones won't be hunting for underground solar panels at night.


I didn't think of that. Excellent advice. Many thanks.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

thrax said:


> I didn't think of that. Excellent advice. Many thanks.


But the Russians might be looking for them - you forget that they are hacking into everything including, possibly the forum and now you have tipped them off. Don't forget :
CARELESS TALK
COSTS LIVES


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