# Help Cafe business in spain



## Auzz12 (Dec 13, 2013)

Hi All,

Happy new year 

Just a quick question me and my partner have a property in benalmadena and we are looking to buy a cafe in the resort we have found a few but just want to see if anyone give me any tips when it comes to buying a cafe 

Thanks
Austin


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Auzz12 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Happy new year
> 
> ...



Well, I used to live in Benalmadena and having seen so many cafes go bust and having talked to many owners who were struggling - people who had lived there for many years, were totally fluent, at home with the way business works in spain, and having to work 24/7 just to make ends meet....... I wouldnt and couldnt recommend it. So my tip would be dont do it!

Jo xxx


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## Auzz12 (Dec 13, 2013)

jojo said:


> Well, I used to live in Benalmadena and having seen so many cafes go bust and having talked to many owners who were struggling - people who had lived there for many years, were totally fluent, at home with the way business works in spain, and having to work 24/7 just to make ends meet....... I wouldnt and couldnt recommend it. So my tip would be dont do it!
> 
> Jo xxx


I totally understand the risks involved when setting up a new business having worked in retail management for a long time and taking shops from bad to great,

This is a risk i am willing to take,

There is a lot of negativity on this forum 

Thanks
Austin x


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Auzz12 said:


> I totally understand the risks involved when setting up a new business having worked in retail management for a long time and taking shops from bad to great,
> 
> This is a risk i am willing to take,
> 
> ...


not negativity - realism from those of us who live here

however - if I was thinking of buying a cafe, once I had identified the property - if it was already a cafe/bar I would visit at lots of different times of day - especially unannounced - jojo can tell you all about rent-a-crowd


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## Auzz12 (Dec 13, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> not negativity - realism from those of us who live here
> 
> however - if I was thinking of buying a cafe, once I had identified the property - if it was already a cafe/bar I would visit at lots of different times of day - especially unannounced - jojo can tell you all about rent-a-crowd


I totally understand that.

This was a plan to visit it many times to see what the trade is like and to see what the pros and cons are of the business 

Thanks
Austin x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Auzz12 said:


> I totally understand the risks involved when setting up a new business having worked in retail management for a long time and taking shops from bad to great,
> 
> This is a risk i am willing to take,
> 
> ...


Negativity or realism????? 

If I hadnt seen so many businesses go under or suffer, I wouldnt have written what I have!!!! But if you choose to see it as negativity then just keep it in mind and see it as knowledge and build a picture.

If you have indeed understanding in the risks involved in opening such a business in Spain, then you'd know what I'm saying is true

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Auzz12 said:


> I totally understand the risks involved when setting up a new business having worked in retail management for a long time and taking shops from bad to great,
> 
> This is a risk i am willing to take,
> 
> ...


So what sort of advice are you after? You will already know that you will have to work all hours, be fluent in Spanish to cope with the bureaucracy, offer something above and beyond what your competitors are offering, and be prepared to lose your investment. 

If none of that fazes you, then I wish you the best of luck. You might be the one in a hundred who makes a success of of it. Come back in two years' time and tell us we were wrong to be so negative!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> not negativity - realism from those of us who live here
> 
> however - if I was thinking of buying a cafe, once I had identified the property - if it was already a cafe/bar I would visit at lots of different times of day - especially unannounced - jojo can tell you all about rent-a-crowd



Yes, I (and several others} used to get free drinks when a friend of mine, an agent showed prospective buyers around bars, cafes etc. and that was before the crisis really took hold!!!

Always check places out unannounced, check all their paperwork, their books, check their permissions are correct (I had another friend who bought an existing restaurant and still couldnt open it for nearly a year cos the paperwork was wrong - Spain moves very slowly), make sure that you're getting what you think you're getting ie fixtures and fittings, check the agreements with the wholesalers - cos they can suddenly change their terms if they think you're new, not fluent, lacking in Spanish ways etc.......

If all that pans out ok, then as long as you are prepared to work all the hours god sends and dont mind price wars with other cafes, then your previous business experience may well pay you dividends.

There, thats me not being negative lol  

"Knowledge is king"

Jo xxx


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Auzz12 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Happy new year
> 
> ...


Hi.
Before you even look at a business, please talk to a professional adviser about the licences, insurance and all the other hoops you will have to jump through.
We came out last year with a view to opening or buying business's that matched the ones we run (ran) here in the UK. 

Our Spanish is reasonable, we have family in the area we looked in BUT, once we had sat down and worked out the financial differences, it would have cost us twice what it does here for the day to day stuff. 

Anyway. You will need to check very carefully what is and what is not included. Do you own the coffee machine, freezer etc, if something breaks who is responsible?
You will need licences for Music, Tables outside, the usual stuff for food hygiene, toilets that can cater for disabled people. These are the most obvious ones. Oh and if you have UK food hygiene certificates these are not accepted, you will need to retake them in Spain.

You will need to be Autonomo ( self employed ) this has to be paid even if you don't earn anything. 
You will need to pay your taxes, water, electric, rubbish and gas bottle bill, pest control ETC.

You will (hopefully) be able to continue to use the existing suppliers, although they will charge you a different rate and possibly ask for COD, until they get to know you. 

We decided to stay in the UK and run the lease's out on our business's and leave it a couple of years before taking the plunge.

Please don't take the advice given here as negative, its not meant that way. But things are not that rosy in Spain even for the Spanish.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Auzz12 said:


> I totally understand the risks involved when setting up a new business having worked in retail management for a long time and taking shops from bad to great,
> 
> This is a risk i am willing to take,
> 
> ...


Honestly I would not say negativity,just home truths.At the end of the day if you were getting negatives from bar owners I could understand as they don't want somebody else raining on their parade.I have said time and time again the days of opening a bar in Spain and the tills jingling all day are long gone.After living here permanently for 19years,believe me I have lost count of the bars that have come and gone.If you have a property in Benalmadena you should know the situation.One or two answers you will get here are from people who no longer live in Spain so they haven't got a clue as to what the situation is like.Bloody dire!!Rent a crowd,I would be ashamed to be assosiated with them but it's surprising what people will do for a free drink.If you can get a bar and do something different you might stand a chance.I sincerely wish you the best of luck but don't envy you.Regards.SB.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Whether you have a cafe in the UK or Spain, you need to research the business and the prospects. I know friends in both the UK and Spain that never did well. The frustrating thing can be, you could have a cafe full of people having just one drink each and not moving for an hour or more. On a good day you could be packed out, then the next day nothing. A cafe in the right place serving the right food at the right price can work, but it can be long hours and hard work. On top of that you have to get all the licences, business liability insurance, you need to register for IVA and employ a good accountant.
My wife and I ran a successful food business for years. We started from scratch, no money, just the ability to work long hours. Life was tough at times getting started, but if you decide to try, then go for it. If it works, then good for you, but many have fallen along the wayside trying the same thing.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

This 'negativity' accusation perplexes me. Sometimes it seems as if people get an idea in their heads that they want to do something and shut their eyes and ears to anything and everything that puts even the smallest dent in their dream.
When I venture out of my house and walk the dog, go into the village or travel a bit further afield I see around me many signs of an economy in crisis: beggars, boarded up shops and bars/cafes, anti-immigrant graffiti, long queues outside employment offices and many firsthand encounters at our kennels with homeless people forced to abandon their much-loved pets. Then there are the people who stick desperate notices on trees, offering work at degrading hourly rates as well as those who go from door to door seeking work.
Frankly, it upsets me when we are accused of negativity for simply telling people some of whom are not residents but holiday visitors what we experience on a daily basis. It is also a tad insulting and patronising to the six million unemployed to tell us that all that is needed is grit and determination and lo and behold: a job will materialise. Do they lack optimism, grit and determination? To insinuate that, however unintentionally, is adding insult to injury and could be construed as arrogant in that you are in possession of 'superior' qualities.

I suppose it's possible that people in the UK are unaware that Spain has an unemployment rate almost four times of that in the UK...or that in some areas more than one in three adults and more than 50% of young people are unemployed...that people are being evicted on a daily basis all over Spain and that there are many cases of suicides through homelessness. I guess some British immigrants who don't have many dealings with the Spanish community are unaware of the misery and hopelessness that exists not far from their 'dream life'. 

A couple of weeks ago an unemployed man came with his dog to our perrera asking if we could castrate it as it was lively and neighbours had complained to the police who had told him the dog would be destroyed if he didn't have it castrated. He had been without work for five years and could not afford the 190 euros fee asked for by local vets. When we told him we couldn't do that as our vet couldn't do commercial work he sobbed. His dog is his only companion.

I made sure the dog was castrated. I'd like to perform a similar operation on all those in power who are responsible for making not just him but very many grown men and women cry.

This is a general rant not aimed at anyone in particular so please take it as a testimony to harsh realism. Spain is at this time not a land of milk and honey..


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

There's a new cafe in the town here that caters more for mothers and children. It's near the school and seems pretty busy most times. The town I used to live in in England had multiple cafes that were chock full of mothers during the day.

If you can think of a an angle like this to the business you may succeed. You need to look at the area and the type of potential customers and see if someone is fulfilling their needs.

Be careful though.. There is a tendency in Spain to copy ideas. Witness the three 'Brazilian' restaurants next to each other in Torrox.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Auzz12 said:


> I totally understand the risks involved when setting up a new business having worked in retail management for a long time and taking shops from bad to great,
> 
> This is a risk i am willing to take,
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, that is because we are in a very negative situation at the moment. There is not much work unemployment is the highest in Europe, bars and cafés that were always full before are, either mostly empty or closed down except for a few hours a day. It isn't just a case of taking something that is failing and building it up to be successful, there just is not the trade there at the moment nor is there likely to be for some time to come.


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## Auzz12 (Dec 13, 2013)

jojo said:


> Yes, I (and several others} used to get free drinks when a friend of mine, an agent showed prospective buyers around bars, cafes etc. and that was before the crisis really took hold!!! Always check places out unannounced, check all their paperwork, their books, check their permissions are correct (I had another friend who bought an existing restaurant and still couldnt open it for nearly a year cos the paperwork was wrong - Spain moves very slowly), make sure that you're getting what you think you're getting ie fixtures and fittings, check the agreements with the wholesalers - cos they can suddenly change their terms if they think you're new, not fluent, lacking in Spanish ways etc....... If all that pans out ok, then as long as you are prepared to work all the hours god sends and dont mind price wars with other cafes, then your previous business experience may well pay you dividends. There, thats me not being negative lol  "Knowledge is king" Jo xxx


Thanks everyone for all the help and information I really do see your point and i would just like to know would it be worth me leasing a cafe to see how things go from there  

Thanks 
Austin x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Auzz12 said:


> Thanks everyone for all the help and information I really do see your point and i would just like to know would it be worth me leasing a cafe to see how things go from there
> 
> Thanks
> Austin x


If I were you, before doing anything, I'd go to several cafes and look around, see what business might be like, chat to the owners ( informally) and maybe walk along the seafront in Benalmadena and see how many cafes rhere aee and their offers ! Do it at this time of the year when it's out of season

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Auzz12 said:


> Thanks everyone for all the help and information I really do see your point and i would just like to know would it be worth me leasing a cafe to see how things go from there
> 
> Thanks
> Austin x


it's highly unlikely that you could just lease a cafe, as in just pay a monthly rent

usually there is a 'traspaso' to pay to the outgoing tenant - even for a small cafe that could be 20K & it's an upfront payment


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> This 'negativity' accusation perplexes me. Sometimes it seems as if people get an idea in their heads that they want to do something and shut their eyes and ears to anything and everything that puts even the smallest dent in their dream.
> When I venture out of my house and walk the dog, go into the village or travel a bit further afield I see around me many signs of an economy in crisis: beggars, boarded up shops and bars/cafes, anti-immigrant graffiti, long queues outside employment offices and many firsthand encounters at our kennels with homeless people forced to abandon their much-loved pets. Then there are the people who stick desperate notices on trees, offering work at degrading hourly rates as well as those who go from door to door seeking work.
> Frankly, it upsets me when we are accused of negativity for simply telling people some of whom are not residents but holiday visitors what we experience on a daily basis. It is also a tad insulting and patronising to the six million unemployed to tell us that all that is needed is grit and determination and lo and behold: a job will materialise. Do they lack optimism, grit and determination? To insinuate that, however unintentionally, is adding insult to injury and could be construed as arrogant in that you are in possession of 'superior' qualities.
> 
> ...


A very sound, informative post.
Please note, mrypg9 is not saying don't do this, she's giving information about life in Spain so that you make a better informed decision.
I have 2 things to add. On the way back from my morning class I stopped off at newsagent's in a nearby town known for its affluent inhabitants (some actors, polititians, well known faces...) A woman stopped me in the street asking for some money. I was surprised because it's a small well off town, so I asked her if she lived there. She said no, that since she'd been unemployed she was renting a room in Madrid, but Madrid is too saturated with beggars, so she goes to the suburbs , a different town every day to try her luck. She looked perfectly "normal" and her voice shook as she spoke to me. I felt for her
And on the radio I heard something that kind of scared me 'cos I understand what the speaker is saying.
_Tengo miedo a esta luz que vemos al final del tunel porque igual es un tren que viene a toda hostia y nos arrolla a todos_ ...
Not negativity, just life


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> A very sound, informative post.
> Please note, mrypg9 is not saying don't do this, she's giving information about life in Spain so that you make a better informed decision.
> I have 2 things to add. On the way back from my morning class I stopped off at newsagent's in a nearby town known for its affluent inhabitants (some actors, polititians, well known faces...) A woman stopped me in the street asking for some money. I was surprised because it's a small well off town, so I asked her if she lived there. She said no, that since she'd been unemployed she was renting a room in Madrid, but Madrid is too saturated with beggars, so she goes to the suburbs , a different town every day to try her luck. She looked perfectly "normal" and her voice shook as she spoke to me. I felt for her
> And on the radio I heard something that kind of scared me 'cos I understand what the speaker is saying.
> ...


And it will continue to be for some time, I fear. When I look around our immediate area, say within a radius of 100 km, I can't see how new employment opportunities can be created. The only economic activity is in the service and agricultural sectors and there's a limit to how many small builders, shop assistants, waiters and car repairers can find work paying enough to live on. The only way to prosperity is through job creation so this does not bode well for emerging from austerity.. In retrospect the construction boom was a huge mistake, down to the PP and its policy of land release in the late 1990s, aided and abetted by cheap loans from within the EU.
Bar and cafe work means long hours, small profit margins and low wages/income unless you are established in a major tourist spot or are happy to run one of those lovely Spanish family bars where you don't expect to rake in millions and your customers are locals from the immediate barrio.
Yet many Brits seem to think it's doable. I wonder why?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> And it will continue to be for some time, I fear. When I look around our immediate area, say within a radius of 100 km, I can't see how new employment opportunities can be created. The only economic activity is in the service and agricultural sectors and there's a limit to how many small builders, shop assistants, waiters and car repairers can find work paying enough to live on. The only way to prosperity is through job creation so this does not bode well for emerging from austerity.. In retrospect the construction boom was a huge mistake, down to the PP and its policy of land release in the late 1990s, aided and abetted by cheap loans from within the EU.
> Bar and cafe work means long hours, small profit margins and low wages/income unless you are established in a major tourist spot or are happy to run one of those lovely Spanish family bars where you don't expect to rake in millions and your customers are locals from the immediate barrio.
> Yet many Brits seem to think it's doable. I wonder why?


For many I suspect that it is the lure of being able to drink the profits tax-free.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> For many I suspect that it is the lure of being able to drink the profits tax-free.


Cynic


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Cynic


I even wrote a poem once, entitled "A Cynic's Christmas"


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