# Self-Employed - Point Me In Right Direction?



## jyl

Hello, all. I am hoping to get pointed in the right direction, approaches, options, resources, etc as I figure out if and how I can do what I want to.

In a nutshell, I . . . 

am a US citizen and resident
am self-employed in the US via my single-member LLC (technically I am both owner and W2 employee)
can do my work remotely (financial services)
have no French clients (and don't expect to have any)
would like to legally live and do my work in France for part of the year
would like to get integrated into the French social / medical / cotisation system
eventually, would like to seek permanent residency and even citizenship
lived in France as a child and am fluent, my wife is not fluent although she is trying to learn
am almost 60 y/o and my wife is over 60 y/o

Does this sound doable?

Thank you!


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## Bevdeforges

It's the part about living and working in France only part-time that could cause you problems. Technically speaking, you could simply "visit" France on the Schengen visa (90 day visitor visa - similar to the US visa waiver program) and continue to work remotely while officially "on vacation" - but that will get you no where in terms of integration into the cotisation system, nor will you be considered "resident" in France.

To take on residence in France (and all the rights and obligations that go with that) you need a reason to be moving to France. While it is possible to set up a business in France as part of that reason, it's unlikely you'd be eligible for a visa for a completely US focused business with no plans to offer any services within France. (Also, be advised that getting into the cotisation system involves lots more than just the health cover. Regardless of your age, if you're working in France, you must pay into the retirement system as well, which takes a chunk of nearly 40% out of your earnings.)

Honestly, you'd probably do better to plan on moving to France on retirement (i.e. once you start drawing your US Social Security). At that point, you only need 3 months of residence before you can enroll in the French health care system as a retiree on a pension - and it won't cost you. Though you will have to promise not to engage in paid work while living in France in order to get the visa.


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## RayRay

There is sometthing you can do that would be invaluable each year you spend time in France as a tourist: Decide where you want to live and purchase a home / apartment. Other than locating the place you want, everything else can be done remotely with your realtor and notaire.

Having a house makes many things easier. Opening a bank account is one (not absolutely easy...but easier). Finding a good service to transfer dollars to euro Is another that will serve you well. You'll also have time to get things set up like your electric, water, and internet access accounts. You can determine whether you need renovations like insulation and double pane glass in all your windows and get that done; decide if you need heat and air conditioning and do that; meet your neighbors and gain a valuable source of advice; introduce yourself at the mairie (not required, but an excellent tradition) and gain access to even more, though different, information; and to buy furniture and bring "furnishings" when you come on on your trips from the US. You can also arrange to purchase a car, should you be staying in the country and need one. 

It will also give you time to consider what, if anything, you wish to bring from the States. French homes are typically quite a bit smaller than US homes and US furniture, for example, is often the wrong scale. You'll know if you have room for books (we only brought our cookbooks...that was all there was room for). Good cookware is always appropriate to bring, as is your good cutlery. Clothing can be brought and left. Other than the few electrical items that run on 110 AND 220 volts (typically things that have a battery like computers, some tools, some medical devices, etc.) it's best to buy electrical goods like appliances, a TV, etc. in France. 

The place will become your home before you move permanently and you will know its ins and outs. Your French and that of your wife will improve enormously. You'll also likely have met all the artisans you'll need to maintain your home...like an electrician, plumber, mason, roofer, etc. And you will, if you are smart, find a doctor and a dentist and use them while vacationing. You'll be shocked at how inexpensive French health care is (even without insurance) and at the quality of care.

It is an approach I suspect many wish they'd thought to take. You have the time to do so. It is tempting to move all at once. And it can be workable. It's easier to it bit by bit.

Best of luck.

Ray


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## EuroTrash

In your circumstances it sounds good advice to plan to move when you retire, and spend time until then preparing for it.
I suspect that trying to register a business activity in France to provide financial services to clients in the US, would be a non starter for various reasons. And living in France, as opposed to visiting France, means you are subject to the same legislation and obligations as every other French resident, so engaging in an economic activity outside of the French system, would not compute.


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## 255

@jyl -- What you propose is certainly doable. Generally, to work in financial services, in France, you should be licensed and depending on specifically what you do, different French agencies would have licensing authority. Additionally, your singe-member LLC, taxed as a disregarded entity, could be problematic.

Consider an alternate solution, re-image your LLC as a WY C Corp. (simplified licensing, if necessary,) then contract with a staffing company or a French "Portage" company. Your actual employer of record would be the French company, which would take care of all the taxes/social insurance deductions. Your French salary would then be eligible for the F.E.I.E. or the FTC for your U.S. taxes.

There have been a few threads, on this forum, of members postulating what you are planning who either formed a French company or established a branch of their U.S. company, in France, to employ them. There have also been a few, that took advantage of the options in the above paragraph. This simplifies payroll compliance, but of course you'd be paying for those services. 

Age is not an issue -- You'll just have to have enough income to support yourselves, probably 2 times the French SMIC. I'd suggest you look at the "Passport Talent" web-site to determine the visa/residency permit that best meets your needs: International talents | France-Visas.gouv.fr . Cheers, 255


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## jyl

I really appreciate all these replies and the time put into them.

Waiting to retirement seem simplest, but I like my work so much that I don't plan to retire for a long time. Ideally, I would start this journey while still working. 

I will look into "portage", restructuring/redomiciling my US LLC, forming a French company (like an EURL), "Passport Talent", and the other options raised. 

Hopefully, the next time I come back with questions, they will be more focused!

Incidentally, my daughter is also starting to look into her French visa/permit options. I may post a separate question about that, as her situation is quite different from mine.

Thanks again!


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## Chrissippus

jyl said:


> Hello, all. I am hoping to get pointed in the right direction, approaches, options, resources, etc as I figure out if and how I can do what I want to.


Among the steps you should consider is to prepare to simulate a US presence. All of the steps below will be difficult or impossible to implement after you have moved abroad. So, it is prudent to prepare them while still in the US. It is important that your brokerage firms and banks never get wind that you have flown the coop or else they will probably close or freeze your account.

1. Make sure you have checking accounts at several banks. I recommend State Department Federal Credit Union and Capital One. SDFCU is the only bank/cu that I know of that will actually open a new account for an expat, but it is easier as a US resident. I don't know how many bank accounts would be sufficient for the long haul.

2. Make sure you have several low-cost credit cards that do not charge a foreign transaction or annual fee. SDFCU and CapOne have good cards as well as many others. I make sure that we make at least one charge on each card per month so that none of our cards are cancelled for inactivity. The rebates available nowadays more than cover the cost of the currency exchange.

3. The brokerages are worse than the banks at shutting out expats, especially Fidelity and Vanguard. I am talking from experience here. Interactive Brokers is the only US brokerage I know of that is willing to open an account for an expat, but they are otherwise not so attractive, so I don't have an IB account yet. Can't have too many brokers.

4. You need to have a Commercial Mail Receiving Agent that will provide you with a US mailing address which is very useful for the SSA, IRS, and your banks and brokers. It is best to open an account with a CMRA well in advance of the move and immediately change your address of record with every bank and broker to the CMRA. That way, if any questions come up you can still substantiate your physical address in the US. Your CMRA mailing address should be in a state without an income tax. I recommend sbimailservice.com located in FL. Basic cost is about $20/month.

5. If you don't already have a Google Voice phone number you should get one immediately and make that your phone number of record with US institutions. You can even port your landline number, which is even better. Google Voice will provide you with a free US phone number that will ring in your cell phone and, importantly, will deliver US SMS text messages, although it is true that some US institutions will refuse to send texts to a GV number. I haven't experienced that yet myself. It's good to have a backup US phone number. Mine is Ooma, but they don't deliver SMS messages, so not as good as GV.

6. Research the tax domicile rules of the state where you currently reside if it has an income tax. Then you should scrupulously insure that you will not meet any of the conditions that might make you still liable to pay state income tax even after you have moved. The law does not work on common sense. The worst states are CA and VA. VA, uniquely, continues to claim your tax domicile in the commonwealth until such time as you have established residence in another US state.

This means surrendering your driver's license (and getting a receipt,) changing the address of record on all your financial accounts, removing yourself from the voters registration list, etc. If you live in a solid blue or solid red state, your vote doesn't matter. If you live in a swing state, it might matter, but most states count continuing to vote in the state as one among other indicators of continuing tax domicile in the state. As an expat you can only vote in your last state of residence. Since I moved from solid blue NY, I stopped voting immediately after the move.

7. Once abroad, you should inform the SSA of your new physical address, but no one else. Even the IRS doesn't know my physical address since they only request a mailing address. 

8. Since your distributions from IRA accounts in the future will not be taxed by the French fisc and will not engender costs for the Sécurité Sociale, you might consider making suitable adjustments to reduce your tax liability in the future, especially Roth conversions, if appropriate. 

9. Get multiple official copies of all your vital documents such birth certificate, marriage certificate, etc.


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## Bevdeforges

A couple of caveats on the list of maintaining your US ties/presence.... given that you intend to operate a US focused business from France, perhaps all this stuff is worth considering. But just be advised that, if you do hope to eventually take French nationality, you will need to establish your French residence cred, too. Part of that is understanding that you are supposed to declare all your worldwide income on your French declarations - even any income that may not be taxed in France. (And actually, it's not a matter of not being taxed, but rather in most cases, that you are credited back at French rates for the tax that income generates.)

Surrendering your driver's license may lead to complications in obtaining a French license. If you are from an exchange state, you will need a valid US license in order to exchange - and you may require proof of residence in that state prior to moving to France to do the exchange. You'll need a valid US licence to drive during your first year in France until you are eligible to exchange or can make arrangements to take the driving tests.

And honestly, there is no particular reason not to advise the IRS of your foreign address - especially if you plan to make use of the FEIE to exclude your earned income from France. (The US also requires you to declare "all worldwide income.") 

Just don't tie yourself up in knots trying to work around the various rules and restrictions. There is more than enough complication to making a big move like this, especially if you plan to maintain your US "job" or business. Also, for guidance on setting up a French business entity, check out the websites for the CCI (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie) in whatever departement you're considering. They have some pretty extensive information about starting up a business in France, plus some training options for handling the cotisations and all. Not free, but definitely "bon marché"


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## jyl

Thanks for all the considerations - many things you all have mentioned are ones that it would never have occurred to me to even think about.

For example, I had not considered the "Passeport Talent". I have friends who own a small business in France which I could potentially invest into - if a retail (bicycle) shop qualifies under the "direct economic investment" provision.


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## Bevdeforges

Be careful with your hopes for the passeport talent visa. It was created in order to encourage hi-tech (and highly paid) employees to set up shop here in France and to help introduce innovation to the French marketplace. I'm not so sure a passive "investment" in your friend's bike shop is quite what they had in mind.


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## jyl

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm not so sure a passive "investment" in your friend's bike shop is quite what they had in mind.


It sure wouldn't make much sense for that to qualify


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