# Best and worst?



## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Just looking for opinions here! What do you think are the best, and the worst, aspects of life in Portugal?

Just to get you started, here are some of my best and worst:

Best:

The people. Nearly everyone we know or have met in Portugal has been friendly, helpful, and polite.

The climate. Coming from the miserable weather in the UK, Portugal is like a dream. Not just warmth and sun, we are not sunbathers, but the welcome low humidity - my arthritis is so much easier, and to be able to dry sheets outside in an hour or so... not that some rain wouldn't be welcome now, to help with the terrible fires, filling the rivers and barragems etc.

The landscape. Rather diminished by the dreadful fires, but there is still so much to admire in the Portuguese landscape. For a small country, it has such an abundance of varied wildlife, both animal and vegetal.

The public services. The health service, police, and other services - and especially the fire service! They seem to be supported and admired, and to do a good job. They do a good job in the UK too - but are under appreciated, and underpaid!

Worst:

The food. I'm not just talking about eating out here (we rarely do). I'm talking about the variety of foodstuffs that are available, and the average Portuguese diet, which seems to have too much salt, too much sugar, and be mostly soft. The climate should mean one could grow almost anything in the way of fruit and vegetables, but most of what we have grown from the seeds and plants available taste of very little, and what you can buy are often limited in choice and well past their best. Lots of vegetables - celery, artichokes, spring onions, beetroot, really fine green beans etc. are rarely found. Most of the vegetables seem to end up in soup, almost always pureed. Herbs seems to be limited to parsley, oregano and coriander leaf, this last the one herb I really cannot stand - as for 10% of the European population, it tastes like soap to me! Where is the basil, the dill, the chervil and tarragon? Where are the spices? Piri Piri is the only one commonly used, even then only on chicken, and cinnamon for sweet stuff. I am happy to make a curry from scratch, and enjoy Chinese food a lot - but I cannot buy the ingredients to make it: why not, when there is a large Chinese population? I asked at our local Chinese shop; the answer was "The Portuguese do not like foreign food - in the UK, Chinese immigrants opened a restaurant; in Portugal they had to open a shop." But the favourite bacalao is "foreign". It comes from Norway! It's soaked, and cooked with other soft ingredients, to make yet another dish for people who don't use teeth!

We inherited a garden in Portugal with apple, pear and peach trees. None of the fruit has any flavour at all! I could go on, but really...

Apart from the food, and the prevalence of eucalyptus, which should never have been introduced, and should all be removed as soon as possible - the other really bad things in Portugal IMHO are the standard of driving (why is everyone obsessed with overtaking, even when over the speed limit, or on a blind corner), and the truly dreadful Portuguese TV - rolling news with little detail, cartoons, football, fake festas, bimbo pop, and endless ads!

Having said all that, I love Portugal, and the good outweighs the bad. Maybe I'm just letting off steam. We've had a nasty virus for 2 weeks, and once again the air outside is tainted with smoke from the endless fires, so we are stewing inside feeling sorry for ourselves. There's nothing we fancy to eat, having been sick for a while, and nothing even on the telly!

What do others think? What are your pet likes and dislikes about Portugal?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Before moving to Spain, Portugal was one of the countries of choice for retirement (we started with seven possibles) and the only thing that ruled out PT was SWMBO who said that she didn't really want to learn another language at her age (48 at the time- the same age as when I first started to learn Spanish) - she is tri-lingual (English, French and Spanish.) The reason you don't find spring onions, is they are the seedlings that go to make bigger onions so they leave them to grow bigger (you can grow your own). Here, just next door, celery, artichokes, beetroot are plentiful. What do you mean by fine green beans? If you mean runner beans - we have been buying them from mid-October last year right through to June but they aren't called runner beans because they aren't but they are flat beans, slightly flatter than runners but use them the same way and very few people would notice a difference. All the vegetables have good flavour and the fruit is good although harvested a little too soon (with export in mind) so sometimes lacks flavour.

If you can't find what you want, pop over into Spain where you will probably be satisfied - go to Mercadona supermarkets for a good range especially of spices and stock up on everything you want or miss. One things we don't seem to get which is common in Portugal is 3 milk cheese.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The best thing is the ordinary people but there are tons of other really good things as well.

The worst is the attitude of the owners of commercial woodland plantations who seem to be almost a different species to the ordinary people........ not only have they planted without a care of the legal firebreak laws they don't seem to even care that their actions have done so much damage........ I've heard 2 in 2 weeks bemoaning their loss of wood & money but not even commented on the loss of lives, livelihoods & homes etc. 

Language & bureaucracy are my other problems but I'm getting over the former & learning to deal with the latter the Portuguese way which is to ignore it.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

> I've heard 2 in 2 weeks bemoaning their loss of wood & money but not even commented on the loss of lives, livelihoods & homes etc.


How long will it take for these eucalyptus farmers to realise that it would be cheaper to clean their land than lose the entire crop?

Sorry Easyriders. Back to your thread.


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## Captainbeaky (Feb 13, 2016)

That's really interesting.

For me ( here in Madeira) the best includes:-
Friendly people.
Fabulous weather
Amazing landscape - Madeira is the size of Reading, but 200m higher than Ben Nevis, which inevitably leads to some amazing landscapes.
Public services aren't quite so shiny- they seem a bit overrun. Adequate rather than excellent.

Food here is excellent - the best veg I've ever had - especially potatoes, which I hate in the UK because of their blandness, but are absolutely stunning here. Meat is of excellent quality, and very tasty - even plain old chicken! How come the lamb here is better than Wales? And the eggs are fab.
Greens are excellent too, as are the bananas.
Choice varies a lot - and is very seasonal, but I don't mind that really.

Worst

Drivers ( and to be honest, the majority of people in everyday lives ) don't seem to understand the concept of choices and consequences - choose to pass on a blind bend, and you might hit the big white bus taking up the whole of the road! It's not an envy or "rat race" thing, they just drive faster than you, and don't consider life beyond the end of the bonnet. Or, they don't think when pulling out in front of you - it simply doesn't enter their universe. It's best to ignore it and get on with your own life.

In respect to driving habits, many tourists are just as bad though - often just stopping when they feel like, and ignore the fact that there's a bloke on a motorbike full on the brakes while they amble through a u-turn in the middle of a blind bend. They seem quite shocked when I shout at them in English!

Mechanics - ( but to be honest, I'm quite happy with this). Here, they will do all sorts of bodges to keep the car on the road. By the time I get the car, the problem is usually quite serious, and needs some major surgery. Again, I think this is the choices and consequences thing... do the job right once, or do it wrong many times. This "make do" attitude can be a very positive thing - why use a JCB when labour is €6 an hour. They don't use floor planers, they use a lot of people with jackhammers! But at times, it can be a liability.

Getting hold of parts. Due to the island nature of Madeira, it tricky to get stuff sent here - especially whole engines due to flight restrictions, and parts take upward of 2 weeks to get here. Annoying when running a business. Hopefully, the new ferry will help matters.

People don't call back. 95% of any job is simply being there - calling back etc,. I'm trying to get the garage floor resurfaced, and finally found a builder who actually called me back! Wahoo.

Paper trail - can be quite exasperating.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Captainbeaky said:


> That's really interesting.
> 
> For me ( here in Madeira) the best includes:-
> Friendly people.
> ...


I REALLY sympathise with your point about getting or should that be NOT getting parts. 

My classic Jeep is the only one in the country & all parts have to be imported from the USA which not only costs a fortune in taxes but also takes forever! 

She's been off the road for months now just for want of a head gasket kit.


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## Captainbeaky (Feb 13, 2016)

travelling-man said:


> I REALLY sympathise with your point about getting or should that be NOT getting parts.
> 
> My classic Jeep is the only one in the country & all parts have to be imported from the USA which not only costs a fortune in taxes but also takes forever!
> 
> She's been off the road for months now just for want of a head gasket kit.


Just a thought, but there are specialists in the UK - you might be better off sourcing one from there, as it would avoid taxes, and they speak English.

I know that they mainly deal with the army era jeeps, but Dallas Autoparts in the UK might be a good starting point for parts.

Failing that, if you let me know the details of the engine, I'll see what I can dig up - I have quite a few trade contacts in the UK that might be able to help.

Mike.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Mike,

I've tried ordering from various dealers in the UK (such as American Autoparts) but their prices & postage are so ridiculous it's not true. 

I now find the best way to do it is to order from the US where for example I can get a top end gasket kit for USD60 and have them send it to an American friend who can bring smallish parts over when he comes. 

The engine is a 5.9 litre AMC360 V8 and current requirement is a top end gasket set. 

Oh and a mechanic that knows V8s lol!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

And have just emailed Dallas Auto Parts for price & availability..... thanks for the contact.... I'd never heard of them!


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

travelling-man said:


> Mike,
> 
> I've tried ordering from various dealers in the UK (such as American Autoparts) but their prices & postage are so ridiculous it's not true.
> 
> ...


TM - I have somebody coming over from the US in October if that helps at all.


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## Captainbeaky (Feb 13, 2016)

Dallas are usually good. Best bet is to give them a ring, and see what they can do.

I collate parts in a uk address when the shipping is too expensive or not available.
I'm back in the uk at the end of the month for about a month to look after my mum, so I can forward something onward if you want.

Give me a few days to see what I can turn up.
I can usually get just about anything - sorting out sensible shipping is the difficult bit.


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## Captainbeaky (Feb 13, 2016)

Also try:-

Real Steel


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The good news is I've had the garage door men here today & they cut the welded garage doors free so I was able to check the old girl over & she fired up a treat (other than the head gasket) & after a short test drive she does everything she should & nothing she shouldn't & only needs a damn good wash & polish which she'll get tomorrow! 

Can't express what a weight off my mind that is.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

travelling-man said:


> The good news is I've had the garage door men here today & they cut the welded garage doors free so I was able to check the old girl over & she fired up a treat (other than the head gasket) & after a short test drive she does everything she should & nothing she shouldn't & only needs a damn good wash & polish which she'll get tomorrow!
> 
> Can't express what a weight off my mind that is.


Great news TM and another step closer to normality.


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> My classic Jeep is the only one in the country & all parts have to be imported from the USA which not only costs a fortune in taxes but also takes forever!


The engine was last produced in 1991 by a now defunct company. Thus new parts are produced in small batches, hence the wait. Leftist governments strongly support import duties and taxes. Why the ? I'd be shocked if parts were both easy to find and reasonably priced.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

But equally no end of units were produced & fitted into many different models over decades...... the spares are readily available in the US from specialist suppliers but what kills it are the iniquitous taxes which I have to pay not only on cost of spare but also on postage & packing...... sometimes the cost of taxes/IVA are more than the cost of the spare itself.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I should have added that the spares are easily available & reasonably priced in the US but by the time they're here, they cost a fortune.


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## Weebobsgrampa (Apr 15, 2017)

travelling-man said:


> Mike,
> 
> I've tried ordering from various dealers in the UK (such as American Autoparts) but their prices & postage are so ridiculous it's not true.
> 
> ...


im not sure where you are based but i know a very good mechanic in Boliquieme who looks after a lot of top end cars and does work on my sons Gallardo


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm near Pedrogao Grande so a loooong way away I'm afraid...... I've got one local place that does a lot of work on rally cars etc that I can use at a pinch but even they don't have much experience of V8s but that said, p'raps I'm just being overly concerned.


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

We seem to have got off into car spares! Seriously, people must have some other views on best and worst in Portugal, surely? And no, I don't mean runner beans, horrible things! I mean really thin, narrow French beans, tender and delicious! They grow them in France, Spain. Italy and Africa - so surely they could grow them in Portugal? The beans they grow here are mostly to be dried (or canned) for winter, the same mentality that still worships dried salted fish - as if refrigeration had never been invented (though I notice nobody bothers making their own chips, even restaurants use those awful thin frozen ones!)

Around this time of year we watch huge trailers full of beautiful yellow and red peppers going past, on their way to the (Belgian owned) frozen food factory. They do not appear in the markets or the shops - just dried up wrinklies there. We are also watching every remaining field around us being ploughed ready to be planted for olives. At least it's not eucalyptus - but there are already thousands and thousands of olives around here, it's just becoming a monoculture. Fair enough, if the olives were looked after the old fashioned way, and brought some benefit to local people. But they don't. The new plantations being put in around here are Spanish owned and 100% mechanised. Furthermore, the olive tress are planted close together, like hedges, so that machines can harvest them, and they are irrigated all year round and sprayed with chemicals. The irrigation involves about 8 kilometers of pipe being laid to pipe water from the nearest barragem - which is already desperately low.

Local people disapprove of the whole thing, they prefer to continue to harvest olives grown the old way, no irrigation, no chemicals. Some years have poor harvests, but that is true of most things grown in a non-intensive way; they try to mix olives with growing other things, or grazing animals. Now the land is being taken up with monoculture, and the people who live here were never asked for their opinion.

That's really one of the worst things about Portugal - big business rules. But not just in Portugal!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Easyriders

What area are you in?

Here in the central zone our local markets are full of really good home grown veggies including great runner beans & especially tomatoes......... and two other really great things for me are the locally produced wines & olive oil. 

Quite honestly, I can't think of much at all to complain about here & I'd choose Portugal over the UK every time & in a heartbeat.


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## randikev (Aug 26, 2016)

Easyriders said:


> Just looking for opinions here! What do you think are the best, and the worst, aspects of life in Portugal?
> 
> Just to get you started, here are some of my best and worst:
> 
> ...


Hi we have only been in Tavira for a couple of months but we love how friendly and helpful everyone is. The food is good but I do agree that the selection is limited. We had a lovely meal out on Friday, dish of the day, tuna, 6 euros and delicious. The outside lifestyle is fantastic, our cat is hardly ever inside and neither are we.

I also do agree that the driving is bad. we have only been here a short time and have seen several accidents and a LOT of close calls. You learn to adjust and keep extra distance and expect the worst. 
Cant wait to learn Portuguese properly and spend the next 40 years here in this beautiful country.
eace:


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

travelling-man said:


> Easyriders
> 
> What area are you in?
> 
> ...


I wasn't comparing the UK and Portugal directly, as you seem to imply. Indeed, when it comes to food, I have been careful not to do so. 

Every country has its strengths and weaknesses, I was simply trying to get the views of other expats on the strengths and weaknesses, as they see them, of life in Portugal. But let's try to be a bit more objective here. Yes, you can grow or buy great tomatoes in Portugal, just as you can anywhere in southern Europe, but you can't live on tomatoes!

Look at the range of foodstuffs available in different european countries. Leave aside the rubbish stuff, the fizzy drinks, sugary or salty snacks, sugar filled breakfast cereals etc, and look at real food: meat, fish, dairy products, vegetables, fruit, whole grains, herbs, spices...

The range available within these categories in Portugal is the narrowest I have come across in any european country I have visited. For example: meat seems generally good, chiefly pork and beef (which I don't eat), but how do we know whether it is free range or intensively reared? People eat a lot of chicken, but I assume that if you want free range you have to buy "Frango do Campo", which comes complete with head, feet, giblets and a bag of blood. I buy it, because I care about what we eat and about animal welfare, but I do not enjoy having to remove all the parts we do not eat. 

Fresh milk can be difficult to obtain, and fresh cream seems impossible. There are loads of sheep and goats, but how often do you see yoghurt made from their milk? We have eaten good cheese, sheep's cheese we think, served as a starter in many restaurants, but have never found it in the shops - when we ask, it always seems to have been made by the mother-in-law! The cheese we have bought in shops has generally been pretty awful, and we've tried all sorts. There are plenty of eggs, but finding free range ones is not so easy.

Vegetables and fruit. Potatoes are either white or red, no mention of variety. Some are good, some are terrible. Onions are great, but you can't live on onions any more than you can on tomatoes! Lots of vegetables, as I referred to in an earlier post, are rarely or never available. The same with fruit; pears, for example, are always rocha pears, which taste of nada! 

How many examples are needed? The markets, shops, supermarkets in France, Spain, Italy, Greece - and indeed, in the UK - all offer a far wider choice of produce than that available in Portugal. Why?

I like Portugal too, and it's certainly much nicer than many other european countries (including the UK) in terms of tolerance and the friendliness of most people. But I don't think this is because of a diet of bacalao, tomatoes and bread!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I certainly agree with you about supermarkets & choice....... My local Intermarche could win prizes if there were awards for bad stock management etc & I'd love to see standards improve but I find if I buy my veggies from the local market then quality & price improve dramatically. 

I see your point about spuds but it's common in many countries including most African countries to simply sell red or white ones...... but I have to say that doesn't bother me because I don't eat 'em anyway. lol

I get your point about fresh milk but it's available in limited quantity even in my area but they do tend to move it around seemingly just to make it hard to find........ I do find good herbs & spices hard to find but we're fortunately close enough to Miranda Do Corvo where we buy from Peter the Spice who's products are fabulous & what little else we can't get we can get online for the most part.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I do note a lot of people, especially ex pats rave about the quality of fish here & I don't understand that because whilst the fresh, wild fish is good it's quite expensive & a significant amount of fish here is farmed & any farmed fish isn't going to be anything like the quality of the real thing.


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## Captainbeaky (Feb 13, 2016)

Sorry if I make anyone jealous, but Tuna is very much in season here, and it's €2.50 a kilo!

It's quite possible that fresh produce is a bit different here in Madeira.

I agree with some of the postings - choice in supermarkets isn't as good as the UK in terms of absolute choice - fresh milk etc - especially here in Madeira, where the distance to the mainland is a challenge, but I've got to admit that the basic produce is far far better here than the uk. 

Spuds are a great example - I stopped eating spuds in the uk - they were all completely tasteless and boring - thank you mass farming. Here, you have to take what you can find, imported produce is expensive, but all the spuds I've bought have been local and absolutely fabulous, from the dinky little new spuds to the massive taters that I baked tonight . Really tasty no matter how you cook them. Red or white - doesn't matter - they are so much better.

The sweet potatoes are brilliant when simply baked too.
( it's not unusual to see three varieties).

I'm the UK, we got used to the same produce all year round, no matter where it came from - Stawberries at Christmas? - no problem.... Here, it's very obvious by the price wether produce is imported or not, and it puts a very different spin when shopping for groceries.

But when fruit trees are continuously in bloom, it's not as cyclic as you might think.
( there is a tangerine tree in the garden that has given us wave after wave of fabulous blossom all the way since October!) 

The local farmers market in Prazeras is a far cry from the overpriced hyped-up farmers markets in the uk, selling a thimbal full of goats milk for a fiver. Here, it's the farmer selling his crop - basic and simple, no fancy ribbons or packaging. the staples are of fabulous quality and cheap as chips, I often tell them to keep the change - it's so cheap. But, by definition, its seasonal. Pretty and quaint, it isn't, but basic and tasty it is.

I'm a keen cook, and I do get a little frustrated at not being able to find some things - especially if I have a particular dish in mind that I want to cook, but I'm also thrilled to rediscover the taste of the basics - chicken that has flavour, pork that doesn't dry out when you cook it, beef that is far better than any I've had in a uk supermarket (at €2.99 per kilo, too).

I've had to change my cooking habits to match the available ingredients, but it's part of the lifestyle - I did miss some things at first - mainly the comfort food - and I did have to secure a supply of marmalade, but all in all, I find that I'm cooking more healthily, and with better ingredients. I find it more fun too.

For herbs, I chat with the locals, they tell me where to find them within a 3 min walk.

Also, it's not unusual to be handed a huge bag of spuds, beans or bananas whenever I'm chatting with a neighbour. ( I'm known as the bloke with the best jump leads in the area - also, I try to be generous with my time if a local has car trouble) they've farmed their patch, and have taken all they can cope with, and want you to benefit too.

Ive had to put some effort into the cooking, but the basic ingredients are so much more rewarding to work with, and cheaper.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Not really a best or worst but one thing I do notice about the Portuguese is that the vast majority have absolutely no marketing skills whatsoever & a good example of that is my local tourist board who make regular & fabulous videos that they then post onto youtube......... The idea is obviously to market the region to the world & attract visitors to the area. 

The problem is whoever makes them assumes the entire world speaks Portuguese & there's not even any foreign language subtitles let alone voice overs.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

travelling-man said:


> Not really a best or worst but one thing I do notice about the Portuguese is that the vast majority have absolutely no marketing skills whatsoever & a good example of that is my local tourist board who make regular & fabulous videos that they then post onto youtube......... The idea is obviously to market the region to the world & attract visitors to the area.
> 
> The problem is whoever makes them assumes the entire world speaks Portuguese & there's not even any foreign language subtitles let alone voice overs.


Don't get me started on marketing! Two examples of how not to do it:

1. In Obidos every year is a chocolate festival. It involves, not just the local community, but many outside business concerns, all of whom you would think would need to plan in advance. This year it ran from mid-March to the beginning of April but, even in mid-January, they were still saying, "dates to be announced."

2. Earlier this year, we were wandering along the river in the centre of town and noticed some sort of event being set up. This was in the gardens opposite the tourist office. We went into the office to ask for details and the answer was, "What event, where?" So we thought that we would try to find out the dates of this year's Medieval Market and the girl did not even know that this was an annual event. It was only the week of the event that the local council added it to the events calendar. We went and guess what, there was hardly anybody there. I wonder why.

I could go on, including how it took me five months to persuade a local garage, or any garage for that matter, to sell me a new car.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

JohnBoy said:


> Don't get me started on marketing! Two examples of how not to do it:
> 
> 1. In Obidos every year is a chocolate festival. It involves, not just the local community, but many outside business concerns, all of whom you would think would need to plan in advance. This year it ran from mid-March to the beginning of April but, even in mid-January, they were still saying, "dates to be announced."
> 
> ...


Do you think that it is, possibly, still too soon after the dictatorship for local enterprise to have recovered its initiative.?


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Returning to your original point about supermarket choice Easyriders, I have to agree to a certain extent.

My observations would be that, as we all seem to agree, there is not the massive choice that you would expect to find in supermarkets in the UK, or my favourite supermarket shopping in France. As far as fruit and veg are concerned, that available in the large supermarkets is of poor quality and with little 'shelf life' once you get it back home. Thank goodness for the fresh food markets and neighbours who are generous with their produce. I'm also lucky in that I have one neighbour who has a reasonable sized piece of land with fresh veg and free range eggs. She charges, but less than supermarket prices and it is all organic. I don't even mind waiting while she harvests my order! Out of all the supermarkets I find the best for price and quality is Lidl. One example, last week in Continente, (floppy) celery was 2.49€ and the same weight for a beautifully crisp head in Lidl was only 0.99€.

Meat. I am going to disagree with others here. I find the beef on the mainland to be appalling quality and tasteless. The best beef is definitely in Madeira and the Azores. The same with lamb, which is sold way to young to have any flavour at all. Pork is OK and conversely to the lamb, the baby pork (leitoes) has amazing flavour and is my number one favourite meal out. Chicken just about the same as the UK.

You still have not shared your location with us Easyriders, but it must be in a backwater somewhere without access to a reasonable sized supermarket if you cannot find fresh milk. We have it here in Continente, Jumbo, Supercor and Lidl. I haven't checked out the new Aldi yet. We have just returned from Continente and they had fresh milk from three different suppliers. One of those suppliers offered it in full fat, half fat and light, all in 1 litre packs and the half fat was also in 250ml packs. For fresh cream, I can source that in Makro but only in 2.5 litre cartons which is OK for a party. Other than that, if I really must have fresh then I make it from fresh milk and unsalted butter. As far as cream goes, to be honest the UHT is fine for me in most things. It can be difficult to whip but I find that the best start is to buy 35% fat cream, made by Agros or Gresso. Put it in the fridge and get it as cold as possible and I also put a metal bowl in the fridge to whip the cream in. If you can get to a Lidl, they sell a German product called Sahnesteif that will help. It is a powder sold in packs of four. Pour one pack into a bowl with a pack of UHT cream and it will whip up a treat.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Do you think that it is, possibly, still too soon after the dictatorship for local enterprise to have recovered its initiative.?


I'm sure that is a factor in there somewhere. In a similar way, I am also sure that the over staffing of government and council departments, and the outdated procedures they follow, are all kickbacks to those days. 

As an example, take the recent tragic events in Madeira with the falling tree taking so many lives. For two to three years, letters and papers have been passed between the junta, camara and government and back again, all detailing the perilous state of the tree and containing warnings of what would happen if it were not dealt with. Now many families around the world are paying the price of the red tape and jobs for the boys with the loss of their loved ones. 

Through this forum, I have struck up a friendship with someone who has previously spent a considerable amount of time living in the Czech Republic and who is now planning to live in Portugal. He has been asking for advice and I warned him of the love of red tape here and sheer frustration of dealing with public officials. He says that has no fears of that, stating that in CZ it was just the same and likening the situation here post dictatorship with the post Communist era there.


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## Maggy Crawford (Sep 18, 2010)

We went to a wine tasting in Podentes last year and among the guests was the Director of the Tourism Course in Comibra University. He spoke, at length like most public figures, about the need to publicise wines of the region. When I spoke to him afterwards and said that the situation would never change because of (1) the lack of marketing skills and (2) surplus red tape I got the classic Left shoulder shrug and "demasiado complicado". I set my case.


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## Maggy Crawford (Sep 18, 2010)

Supposed to be "I rest my case"


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Many thanks to all for the posts on this subject! Sorry I didn't answer about where we are in Portugal. We are near Avis, in Alto Alentejo.

I agree that fruit and vegetables are better quality (but the same restricted range) in markets, rather than supermarkets. Unfortunately, we have to drive for an hour to get to the weekly market in Estremoz, which also sells "Antiques". It's generally jammed with tourists in August, so very difficult to park. We will go there for fruit and vegetables again from September on, but even then, we really need to buy fresh stuff more often than once a week. We also go to Lidl in Estremoz, which does offer a better range of some things. We stock up with proper Greek feta cheese, British cheddar, smoked salmon when they have it. Last week they even had celery, so I tried to make Waldorf salad to go with the smoked salmon. Unfortunately, the celery was old and woody, quite inedible, but it was exciting to even find it!

Or other possibility for a market (and a branch of Lidl) is Ponte de Sor. This is also about an hour's drive, but we have to drive through large areas of eucalyptus and pine, and there have been several fires, as there are every year. So we have avoided going there since June.

Avis itself has two small supermarkets, a Meo (mini Continente) and (recently) a Mini Precio (Dia). Meo sometimes has fresh milk, but I was there one day when a new order came in. There were just 12 bottles of fresh milk delivered, and they all went in 10 minutes. So clearly. Portuguese people like fresh milk too, when they can get it. Why doesn't the supermarket stock more of it? Same with vegetables like peppers, there's usually just a dozen or less on offer, usually past their best - but they won't get any more until those are gone! Maybe it's to try and cut wastage, but surely it's also bad for profits not to offer stuff people want to buy?

Meanwhile, tons and tons of locally grown, beautiful red and yellow peppers go past on trailers - to the frozen food factory in Avis!

Anyway, perhaps things will be better in winter, when I can make more stews and soups. I know the Portuguese eat soup all year round, but we don't - apart from gazpacho.

On the point about ordering things online. I've tried this, and also our eldest son has sent spices in a flat package not much bigger than a letter-sized envelope. They just don't arrive! Our house doesn't have a post box, the boxes are all grouped together in the village. The boxes are very small, so we don't send for any large items. But it's very hit and miss what gets delivered, apart from junk mail. We've tried going to the post office to try to trace things, but are just met with a shrug.

Enough moaning! As I said before, there are problems in every country, and I still think the best things in Portugal out weigh the worst!


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

If it's any help, should you get a glut, fresh milk can be frozen (I've done it). Fresh cream over 35% fat content can too, according to google.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

> Meanwhile, tons and tons of locally grown, beautiful red and yellow peppers go past on trailers - to the frozen food factory in Avis!


Easyriders, have you ever tried talking to the farmers that grow these peppers? You never know, they might welcome 'gate' sales. The same with your neighbours. You will be surprised how many unofficial outlets there are for fresh fruit and veg. Then, take a look inside unlikely shops. I live in a very small area on the outskirts of Coimbra with less than a dozen streets. Despite the size, we have a restaurant, a shop and two bars. Walk into one of the bars and you realise that it is more than that and has a range of basic groceries and fresh fruit and veg; some of it provided by the locals themselves. Our other shop is a little more obvious and, in addition to the basic groceries, fruit and veg, he also sells a good range of pots and pans and will take in your washing and dry cleaning. In the adjoining village there is a very well stocked fruit and veg shop but, unless you knew it was there, you would never find it, as it is tucked away in someone's garage. I only happened upon it by chance when out walking one day, Being the nosy soul that I am, I peeked into the open door to see racks of fruit and veg. I bet if I ventured inside, there would be all manner of other goodies available. Certainly on other walks past, I have noticed trays of plant plugs, so a ready supply of grow your own there.

A funny story from many years ago, up in the hills at the back of the Costa del Sol in Spain. I was out for the day on a rented motor scooter and getting dangerously low on fuel. Passing through a ghost town of a village, I stopped at the only shop which was the typical general store with a wonderful smell of all the cheeses, hams hanging from the ceiling and other goodies. On asking where was the nearest place for two stroke fuel, I was confused when he asked, "Quanto?" How much? Not sure that he understood my question, my Spanish then only marginally better than my Portuguese now, I tried again. By now he was my side of the counter with a measuring jug in hand! He reached down to a carboy of fuel nestled amongst the baskets of veg and pointing to the contents repeated, "Quanto"! Thanks to the darned EU, sadly those days are behind us but there are still hidden gems to be found.

Back to your point and cheese in particular, I also missed Cheddar when I first arrived here but have found a very suitable alternative in Islands Cheese. More specifically, it is cheese from the islands of the Azores in general, with my favourite being, Queijo São Jorge or cheese from the island of São Jorge. You can substitute it for Cheddar in any recipe and I challenge you to tell the difference. It also makes for a blooming good Ploughman's. If you ever fancy a trip from the mainland, I can recommend São Jorge; not just for the cheese but amazing milk, beef, veg and fruit, including locally grown pineapples. The village of Gorreana on the island, lays claim to having the only tea plantation in Europe. Obviously, news of the plantation in our own Cornwall has not reached them yet! You can tour the plantation and factory free of charge before tasting the teas and visiting the shop. I've attached a photo of the São Jorge cheese that is most readily available and is certainly in our Lidl.



Stick with it Easyriders, talk to the locals, put your nose in places where it doesn't belong and you will be amazed what is right there on your doorstep.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The easiest and most reliable way is to ask your neighbours. This is particularly important in villages and out of the way small communities. All your neighbours will have similar needs to you (OK so the variety chosen may be different - Roquefort v. Gogonzola, etc.) but the probabilities are that they will want something similar and have places that are not obvious where they get their supplies. A French couple, as did a Brit couple, recently moved to our village and we were able to point them in the direction of greengrocery (in a garage) and hairdressers (male and female) who come to your own house (when people become pensioners here in Spain, they have to give up work [officially]!)


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Easyriders - I have spoken with my (Portuguese) OH about your situation and now I have a better understanding. She says how lucky you are to live in such a beautiful, calm place and hopes that you are enjoying life down there. Unfortunately, you have to pay for the relative remoteness with a lesser selection of products available to you than the rest of us, and certainly you will notice a difference between here and the UK. My advice, backed up by Baldilocks, stands though and that is to ask around and poke into unlikely places.

My OH did question your choice of Estremoz for shopping and wonders if you have tried Portalegre. It is only a 45 minute run down the IC3 from you and has a far better selection of shops. 

Forget my previous about speaking to the pepper farmers. Reading through it again with her, I realised that you said the lorries pass by. They could be coming from many miles away. Doh!

We do 'pass by' from time to time on our way to Seville via Badajoz. Next time I will suggest a diversion to encircle the baragem, and take a closer look at the area.


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

Regarding deliveries, is it not possible to rent a box in the local correos?


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

It is certainly possible at some post offices Smudges but possibly not where Easyriders is. Then you have the possible problem of availability. I have no idea what the situation is here, but where I lived in Spain, there was a 3 year waiting list. Consequently, the local estate agent amongst others, offered a post box service. It might be worth your while investigating that possibility Easyriders.


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

Where I was in Spain (admittedly a large expat area) there were a couple of English run internet cafe cum newsagent cum general purpose shop with their own post boxes to rent. I think the mail was delivered to them by the correos and the shopowners then sorted it. They also provided the direct mail into the Royal Mail facility available in some Spanish areas. It might be similar in some PT areas (or, then again, it might not!)


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

JohnBoy said:


> Easyriders - I have spoken with my (Portuguese) OH about your situation and now I have a better understanding. She says how lucky you are to live in such a beautiful, calm place and hopes that you are enjoying life down there. Unfortunately, you have to pay for the relative remoteness with a lesser selection of products available to you than the rest of us, and certainly you will notice a difference between here and the UK. My advice, backed up by Baldilocks, stands though and that is to ask around and poke into unlikely places.
> 
> My OH did question your choice of Estremoz for shopping and wonders if you have tried Portalegre. It is only a 45 minute run down the IC3 from you and has a far better selection of shops.
> 
> ...


Thank you, JohnBoy, and your OH. Yes, it is a lovely area, and we are lucky to live here. I will try looking for other unlikely shops - I remember years ago in Spain, we took a November holiday to celebrate my husband's birthday in a small village called Gaucin in the Andalucian mountains. We couldn't see a single shop, thought we would starve! However, during an evening walk we noticed several people coming in and out of what looked like little houses, with open doors. You couldn't see through the doors as they all had hanging fly strips. These turned out to be shops, bigger inside than they looked from outside - but none of them had signs to distinguish them from other houses! I was always worried about stepping into someone's living room, until I learnt which ones were actually shops!

We do sometimes shop in Portalegre, but again have not gone there recently as there have been fires around Portalegre, and several in Fronteira, which we have to pass though to get there.

If you do visit the Avis area, the barragem itself is lovely and peaceful where the dam is (just outside Avis, on the road to Mora), with loads of birds of prey, herons etc. There is usually nobody there, you could hear a pin drop if it weren't for the tree frogs! When you go through Avis itself, there is a roundabout with a sign for "Campismo". There is a lovely campsite overlooking the lake. There is also a boat club, and most years Olympic teams from all over Europe come to practice on the lake. The lake is huge, and has a beach. Unfortunately, the water level is very low this year, so the banks are very steep, but it is a lovely spot. Just above the lake is a very nice hotel, where the boat teams stay. Let me know if you want to visit, perhaps we could meet you and show you around a bit. All the best, Linda and John


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

JohnBoy said:


> It is certainly possible at some post offices Smudges but possibly not where Easyriders is. Then you have the possible problem of availability. I have no idea what the situation is here, but where I lived in Spain, there was a 3 year waiting list. Consequently, the local estate agent amongst others, offered a post box service. It might be worth your while investigating that possibility Easyriders.


Here one of the local shopkeepers will offer a Poste restante for packages.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

What you experienced in Gaucin is just the way that the little shops operate here. Search those out and I'm sure you will find some hidden gems.

You mentioned in an earlier post the problem with sourcing the cheeses that you are offered in restaurants and being told it is, "made by the mother-in-law." Apparently, in that part of the country, it probably was! We had a couple of nights in Crato to the north of you once and in a restaurant there we had a cheese from Nisa. It is a sheep's milk cheese that they coat with paprika so has a red tinge to it. It is certainly worth searching for if you are ever in the area. We did find some in Coimbra once but it was rubbish. They obviously keep the best stuff closer to home.

Looking at your Welsh roots, I am surprised that you haven't mentioned the Alentejo lamb which is recognised as the best that Portugal produces. Obviously not what you were used to at home, but have you tried it and, if so, how does it compare?

We are well overdue a tapas trip to Seville and will let you know when we are in your area. Look forward to that.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

JohnBoy said:


> Looking at your Welsh roots, I am surprised that you haven't mentioned the Alentejo lamb which is recognised as the best that Portugal produces*. Obviously not what you were used to at home*, but have you tried it and, if so, how does it compare?
> 
> We are well overdue a tapas trip to Seville and will let you know when we are in your area. Look forward to that.


Not radio-active?


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Not radio-active?


Que?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

JohnBoy said:


> Que?


Many of the sheep in Wales were affected by the fallout from Chernobyl. I lived in Gwynedd at Trawsfynydd and all the sheep around us were especially marked as having been irradiated. So you commented that the lamb he got in PT would be different from what he was used to in Wales, hence my comment "not radio active"


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Many of the sheep in Wales were affected by the fallout from Chernobyl. I lived in Gwynedd at Trawsfynydd and all the sheep around us were especially marked as having been irradiated. So you commented that the lamb he got in PT would be different from what he was used to in Wales, hence my comment "not radio active"


So it came ready cooked then! Wow! I never knew. Oompty oomp years and I'm still learning.


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

Remember it now.


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