# Question re: Social Security



## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

My first benefit month for my Social Security retirement payments was September, and the first payment was scheduled for October 2. I set up direct deposit to my Banorte account with the FBU in Mexico City. My understanding is that payment is a two-step process: The SSA sends the money to Banco de México, which then deposits the money in the recipient’s bank. 

The My Social Security portal indicates that my first payment was made the morning of Friday, October 2, as scheduled. The money did not show up in my Banorte account on Friday, nor so far today (Monday).

I spoke to Banorte reps both Friday and today. They are cagey about whether the deposit has been received, but say that it can take up to three business days to post, so I should check back with them Thursday AM if it still is not visible. 

Is this kind of delay in posting pretty usual, in any of your experiences? Why can’t the bank just tell me that the money HAS been received and the posting is pending? The reps went out of their way to avoid saying that.

Isla Verde in particular, have your experiences been similar or different? 

Of course, I sent all this info to my FBU contact in Mexico City, this morning, but haven’t heard anything back yet. 

I tend to get a little anxious about money, and since this is the first payment, of course I am especially interested to see how it goes. I thought it would be a little more immediate, but maybe that was naive.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

PatrickMurtha said:


> My first benefit month for my Social Security retirement payments was September, and the first payment was scheduled for October 2. I set up direct deposit to my Banorte account with the FBU in Mexico City. My understanding is that payment is a two-step process: The SSA sends the money to Banco de México, which then deposits the money in the recipient’s bank.
> 
> The My Social Security portal indicates that my first payment was made the morning of Friday, October 2, as scheduled. The money did not show up in my Banorte account on Friday, nor so far today (Monday).
> 
> ...


Greetings Patrick. I haven't ever had the problem you're dealing with regarding your SS monthly payments. Mine is supposed to be deposited in my Santander account by the 3rd of the month, and I can't recall the deposit ever being late except when the 3rd falls on the weekend. I have never checked my My Social Security portal to keep tabs on things, so I can't help you with that part of the problem you're having. The bank reps are probably just following procotols they are told to follow. Were they trying to be helpful, or were they a bit dismissive in the way they talked to you? In any event, let us know what happens with your money, which you have every reason to be anxious about!


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I think the reps were trying to be helpful. I got the feeling that they could see that the bank has received the payment, but couldn't tell me that because of protocols, as you say. I am interested to hear that Santander does not have the 3-day delay - so it is not universal. It seems like a form of “interest squatting” rather than fraud prevention (that is, the bank deposits the money in overnight accounts and keeps the interest received). 

Maybe I should switch banks - but that might result in temporary delays in receiving the monthly payments. I’ve thought about leaving Banorte many times, but I have never had any confidence that another bank would be better. 

I will be interested to hear what the FBU has to say about this. 

I’ll post here when I receive the money. 

Thanks for your insights!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I think the reps were trying to be helpful. I got the feeling that they could see that the bank has received the payment, but couldn't tell me that because of protocols, as you say. I am interested to hear that Santander does not have the 3-day delay - so it is not universal. It seems like a form of “interest squatting” rather than fraud prevention (that is, the bank deposits the money in overnight accounts and keeps the interest received).
> 
> Maybe I should switch banks - but that might result in temporary delays in receiving the monthly payments. I’ve thought about leaving Banorte many times, but I have never had any confidence that another bank would be better.
> 
> ...


I don't know if Santander doesn't have the 3-day delay because, as I wrote in my previous message, I've never checked the SS portal. 

Why have you thought about leaving Banorte in the past? Other big problems? Things have gone well enough for me with Santander, so you might want to look into opening an account with them.

I am looking forward to finding out what's going on with your money. It's very helpful that you are asking questions here on the open forum, instead of through PMs. That way, other Forum members can benefit from your experience.

¡Buena suerte!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

My buddy from San Diego bought an apartment this year in San Luis PotosÃ* and his bank transfered the money to the builder by using his bank's routing number for international transfers instead of the "swift" number which is the exact number of the builder's account. The transfer went to Banorte's head office in CDMX instead of directly into the builder's account and sat there for 3 days before being forwarded to the builder's acount. It is important the "swift" number is used for 24 hour transfer results in Mexico. Possibly this is your problem.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> My buddy from San Diego bought an apartment this year in San Luis PotosÃ* and his bank transfered the money to the builder by using his bank's routing number for international transfers instead of the "swift" number which is the exact number of the builder's account. The transfer went to Banorte's head office in CDMX instead of directly into the builder's account and sat there for 3 days before being forwarded to the builder's acount. It is important the "swift" number is used for 24 hour transfer results in Mexico. Possibly this is your problem.


That is interesting. But I doubt it is the problem here; the number that Social Security requested and that I provided was my CLABE, which should be sufficient. The Federal Benefits Unit in Mexico City has lots of experience with all of this.

I am thinking that Banorte is the problem.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I don't know if Santander doesn't have the 3-day delay because, as I wrote in my previous message, I've never checked the SS portal.
> 
> Why have you thought about leaving Banorte in the past? Other big problems? Things have gone well enough for me with Santander, so you might want to look into opening an account with them.
> 
> ...


Since the official SS payment date for expats is the 3rd of the month, it does not look like Santander is imposing any delays on making the money available in your account. 

I have had many frustrations with Banorte over the years. They often refuse my international transactions (for very small amounts!), and then I have to spend a half-hour on the phone to get those approved (but maybe that is common?). My worst experience was when they made a double charge on a phone purchase, about 3500 pesos, and it took them 10 weeks to reverse the duplicate charge.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PatrickMurtha said:


> ...My worst experience was when they made a double charge on a phone purchase, about 3500 pesos, and it took them 10 weeks to reverse the duplicate charge.


I had a similar experience. I once paid for IMSS at my own bank instead of HSBC (the payment form said it was good at both banks). It turned out they only took payments from HSBC, so I had to pay again. It took them many months to refund the money to my account.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> That is interesting. But I doubt it is the problem here; the number that Social Security requested and that I provided was my CLABE, which should be sufficient. The Federal Benefits Unit in Mexico City has lots of experience with all of this.
> 
> I am thinking that Banorte is the problem.


CLABE was the number his US bank used instead of the "swift" number for international bank transfers. It delayed the transfer an additional 3 days. Maybe the US Consolate employees are not that "swift"? 

Google Translation: 

"The CLABE is the abbreviation for Clave Bancaria Estandarizada and is a banking standard for the numbering of bank accounts in Mexico. This rule is a requirement for the sending and receiving of domestic interbank fund transfers since June 1, 2004. CLABE is an 18-digit number."

Goggle Translation:

"￼es.bic-swift.com ›mexico

SWIFT codes of banks in Mexico. BIC codes of Mexico

To make international transfers to Mexico it is necessary to know the SWIFT / BIC code of the destination bank."


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I had a similar experience. I once paid for IMSS at my own bank instead of HSBC (the payment form said it was good at both banks). It turned out they only took payments from HSBC, so I had to pay again. It took them many months to refund the money to my account.


I am going through it again with Telmex right now. They double-charged me in July and still have not rectified it. It is not a good level of customer service!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I just had to get the swift numer to all the banks in Mexico so people could wire money to artisans in Chiapas.. The swift is like a routing number and it is necesary for any international wiring. The only "bank" that did not have a swift was Bancoppel. They have an agreement with western Union and the money can be send via western union system directy from the states to the coppel account via remittance...
In France it is called a BIC but wether BIC or swift that routing number is necesary
l


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> CLABE was the number his US bank used instead of the "swift" number for international bank transfers. It delayed the transfer an additional 3 days. Maybe the US Consolate employees are not that "swift"?
> 
> Google Translation:
> 
> ...


The Social Security Administration / Federal Benefits Unit system has been in place forever. As I mentioned, it is a two-step process; the SS transfers the funds to Banco de México, which then deposits them in the recipients’ banks (and Banco de México would certainly have all relevant codes for all Mexican banks). The funds are NOT sent directly to the recipients’ banks from the US.

I am not an expert on banking, of course. Aldo, I have zero control over any of this; I am just doing what I am told.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

citlali said:


> I just had to get the swift numer to all the banks in Mexico so people could wire money to artisans in Chiapas.. The swift is like a routing number and it is necesary for any international wiring. The only "bank" that did not have a swift was Bancoppel. They have an agreement with western Union and the money can be send via western union system directy from the states to the coppel account via remittance...
> In France it is called a BIC but wether BIC or swift that routing number is necesary
> l


See my reply to AlanMexicali. Once again, NONE of this is in my hands; the systems and processes are pre-existent, and affect countless thousands of people. I do think I am experiencing a specific issue with Banorte and their “hold” policy.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

UPDATE: It’s bad. My payment was returned to Social Security and my benefit is suspended until the situation is resolved. Of course, no one contacted me. I found this out by calling the Social Security phone line in the US.

I have emailed the Federal Benefits Unit in Mexico City on Friday, Monday, and twice today, and have received no response yet. 

Banorte says they did NOT receive and did NOT refuse or return the payment. Not entirely sure I believe them.

If they did not return it, then the intermediary bank (Banco de México) did, but why would they? 

I have triple-checked, and I provided the correct CLABE to the FBU by email. Did someone mess up on data entry? 

The SSA does not provide me with a tracking # (which does exist) to trace the transfer and see what went wrong and where. Only they can do that. 

I am tempted to quickly open a new bank account (Santander!), get a new CLABE, re-submit it, and have SSA try again. The SSA phone rep said that could typically be done the next business day after updated banking information is received by them (but internationally, I don’t know). 

Any advice gratefully considered!


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I spoke to my bank again today, and with the Social Security phone line in the US again. The SS rep was very nice, and consulted with her supervisor. They said that I am doing everything correct. I read the CLABE to the rep - she confirmed that is the number they have. The bank confirmed they have no problem with such a transfer. So the source of the returned payment problem is still unclear. The SSA does NOT want me to change my information, if the information is all correct. And that certainly seems to be the case.

So now it is up to the FBU. The SS rep told me to call them, and I did, but as I already knew, their phone line just tells you that you MUST contact them by email. So I did that too, again, the sixth detailed email I have sent them since Monday morning. Now I just have to wait for their response.

I am exhausted.


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

You should have received an automated reply from the FBU telling you that you should receive a response within five business days. Hopefully you will hear by Monday.


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

Also, in the US if the 3rd falls on a weekend they will deliver the payment the preceding Friday. This is not true in Mexico, where it will be delivered the following Monday. So the payment is late, but not as late as you thought.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

AnneLM said:


> You should have received an automated reply from the FBU telling you that you should receive a response within five business days. Hopefully you will hear by Monday.


I did not receive any automated reply to the emails I sent on Monday and Tuesday. I do not know why. I did receive them to the four additional emails that I sent on Wednesday and Thursday. 

There of course is nothing that requires them to wait the full five days. “We need time to dawdle and ignore you!”


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

AnneLM said:


> Also, in the US if the 3rd falls on a weekend they will deliver the payment the preceding Friday. This is not true in Mexico, where it will be delivered the following Monday. So the payment is late, but not as late as you thought.


Well, all I know about that is that the My Social Security portal listed my payment date as Friday, October 2. I knew full well that the money might not be available until Monday. But in the event, the payment was apparently returned immediately.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Update: No movement. The FBU in Mexico City has NOT contacted me; today is the 7th business day since my first email to them. It is 12 calendar days since the scheduled payment.

According to the SS operations manual (available online), the FBU should have apprised of the non-receipt of the international direct deposit immediately and started to work to resolve it immediately, the goal being to do so within 10 business days or 14 calendar days. There is no evidence that they have done anything at all. 

I have spoken to three customer service reps on the SSA’s US phone line. All have been EXCELLENT, I cannot praise them enough. They are doing what they can, although it still has not resulted in any money in my account. We have confirmed and re-confirmed that all the banking and transaction numbers are correct. The relevant SS Processing Center in the US is now involved. 

So this has been a mixed bag. I give the US phone reps an A, the FBU an F. But overall, one of my most frustrating experiences ever. Surely things can be managed better than this.


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