# Can anyone help - SHOCKING!!!!



## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Hello Friends,

I was just surfing internet for more information in regard to Canada and jobs information. I saw this site and and I was totally shocked and confused . I mean I paid so much for PR and now I read this??? 

NotCanada.com | The Truth About Immigration To Canada and http://www.exposethismuck.com/ --->Any one born in Canada or any immigrant can you please tell me that this is all wrong and nonsense stuff. I do not believe this site...:confused2:

PLEASE HEEEELLP:rain:


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

Charanjit said:


> Hello Friends,
> 
> I was just surfing internet for more information in regard to Canada and jobs information. I saw this site and and I was totally shocked and confused . I mean I paid so much for PR and now I read this???
> 
> ...


There are always going to be unsuccessful immigration attempts. Some of the comments no doubt are true but I truly believe there are countless more positive comments. There are indeed professionals (doctors, accountants, dentists etc.) from India/Pakistan/Middle East who are not qualified to practice here unless they become requalified. Canadian standards are regarded as sufficiently higher to warrant this. I believe you're in IT so the requalification does not apply to you.
The grass here is just a different shade of green.


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## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Hello Auld,

Thank yo for your response... Yes you are correct that I am not from IT and from Management/Adminstration background. so you mean to say that I should overlook those stuff writen in website and carryon with PR process? 

Honestly I have done all the formalities and now their is no looking back but to start a new life in Canada with my family


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

Charanjit said:


> Hello Auld,
> 
> Thank yo for your response... Yes you are correct that I am not from IT and from Management/Adminstration background. so you mean to say that I should overlook those stuff writen in website and carryon with PR process?
> 
> Honestly I have done all the formalities and now their is no looking back but to start a new life in Canada with my family


Hi,

I dont understand why people hide the truth, this is the same like ostrich hides from danger by burying its head in the sand, i am not going in much detail, but to my sincere advise do read this website, specially watch the clips in which Not Canada host is questioning the Immigration Minister the same question u have asked and he couldn't reply.

I have discussed this lot in previous thread started by Mr. India on New bie in Canada, but what i found people dont want to face the reallity, as u have paid so much and u dont have any option left to go back, so stick with your fait, i myself wandering since lst couple of months but going after lot of reseach concluded that Canada is not for me for this time and i opt for Aus, well things are not much better their as well but not worse than Canada, this will be a nightmare for me if i have to go in frezzing -40 with no job in hand and looking for gov grant to re educate (which is usually happened) myself. 

Best of luck, Canada might be a better place for you. Will u share your process of PR, timeline and other valuable info.

Cheers!


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Auld Yin said:


> There are indeed professionals (doctors, accountants, dentists etc.) from India/Pakistan/Middle East who are not qualified to practice here unless they become requalified.


And that's the same for nurses or docters who are trained in Europe.


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Charanjit said:


> Hello Friends,
> 
> I was just surfing internet for more information in regard to Canada and jobs information. I saw this site and and I was totally shocked and confused . I mean I paid so much for PR and now I read this???
> 
> ...


Hello Charanjit,

By what I read there are certainly issues with employment specially after crisis. 

I guess it depends how much you are willing to sacrifice and also how well qualified you are. Your network of contacts counts as well as your language skills.

You may end up with your 1st job being lower level to what you used to do back home. However, if you are persistent you will succeed on getting better jobs and thus better $.

As we debated on one previous thread, Canada is full of successful immigrants and I am sure they have different opinions regarding notcanada.com. 

You can't let such things turn you down such as "Canadian Immigration is doing business on us"... besides being a rather offensive and rude comment I believe success is very personal and it is how much you put into it... 

I personally know 3 couples in Canada - 2 Brazilian couples and 1 Chinese couple. They have different levels of education and qualification/language skills. And guess what? They are all doing GREAT.

Best of luck!

Cheers


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

I think much of the problem stems from the fact that such professionals are not fully informed that their qualifications will require requalifying to Canadian standards. This is a daunting task physically, financially and mentally. It is a contentious issue in Canada particularly in the matter of physicians of which there is a shortfall here. The Government here must develop a much better way of dealing with this matter. As a long term resident and lover of Canada it is, IMO, an atrocious state of affairs when doctors are driving cabs or doing other menial jobs.


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

My 2 cents are.....theres always two sides to a story and while there are problems everywhere not just Canada, theres always a good side to things too. I believe NOTCANADA is one extreme and its upto you to decide how that balances with the other extreme....this can be done by talking to as many people as possible. 

Im just not a big fan of people who are already criticizing Canada even before they enter and are at the same time applying for Citizenship or PR. Its just double standard. Like someone in the the other thread stated, you should know what you are getting yourself into (the good and the bad) and then make your decision based on the information you gather. 

Good Luck in your decision.


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## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Hello Jovi,

Thank you for your reply. Have your mirgated to Aust?


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## janfreeman18 (Sep 28, 2009)

Hi, do you not feel when you put so much into such a massive decision as reloaction to another country, that one bad opion carries so much weight. I believe if professionals have to re-educate to practice in Canada - well done canada your health professionals are second to none. What a great country to fall ill in!!!

Everyone has a different story and everyone deals with things differently. Maybe "not canada" should have spent as much energy in researching their new country before committing, as they have in adversly advertising a fantastic country, that wasn't a magic wand for the unprepared!!

I want to relocate to canada, the people are friendly, the scenery is outstanding and the future is yours for the taking, just do your homework to make sure your move is as easy as possible. You have not completed yet and there is always a "going back" (you may lose money but weigh the odds up)and you seem intelligent and cautious enough to research up to the day of the flight. 

REGRET THE THINGS YOU DO AND NOT THINGS YOU DONT!!! Great experiences and decisions have been made on chance.

I hope you relocate and find your life in Canada everything your looking for.


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

Charanjit said:


> Hello Jovi,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. Have your mirgated to Aust?


Hi Charanjit,

Not yet, I have started my process last month and my agent send my application to ACS for assesment, i think minimum a year will be taken, if my IT profession remains in MODL and CSL list, let see.

Another bad news for IT professionals in Canada " the Alberta Immigrant Nominee Program (AINP) announced a major change to its popular US H1B Visa Holders category. One occupation—Computer and Information Systems Managers—has been removed from the list of qualifying occupations. That’s the bad news. The good news is the Federal Skilled Worker program remains an attractive Canadian immigration option for Computer and Information Systems Managers currently working in the United States, as well as those working elsewhere in the world".

Now recession of USA is gonna hit Canada at more fast pace than expected.

what about you, are u finished with your process or still in the queue.


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## Oggy (Jan 25, 2009)

jovi said:


> Now recession of USA is gonna hit Canada at more fast pace than expected.


I certainly wish I had your crystal ball... I don't think even my financial advisor could call that one right now.


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## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi..

I just wish everthing goes well for us in Canada. I am trying to get all information I can about where can I live and work. I am not money hungry person but I just need good open area so that I can give space to my kids.. they can go around and have fun in open. 
I know everything is not bed of roses but I am a guy who can work hard non-stop
I would like to live little outside town may be in suburbs.. I dnt mind driving few miles to work.

Lets see what comes up... wish I could get more replies how is it for the starters in Canada

Thank you...


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## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi..

I just wish everthing goes well for us in Canada. I am trying to get all information I can about where can I live and work. I am not money hungry person but I just need good open area so that I can give space to my kids.. they can go around and have fun in open. 
I know everything is not bed of roses but I am a guy who can work hard non-stop
I would like to live little outside town may be in suburbs.. I dnt mind driving few miles to work.

Lets see what comes up... wish I could get more replies how is it for the starters in Canada

Thank you...


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

jovi said:


> Hi Charanjit,
> 
> Not yet, I have started my process last month and my agent send my application to ACS for assesment, i think minimum a year will be taken, if my IT profession remains in MODL and CSL list, let see.
> 
> ...



Okay once more Im a little bit confused. Does Alberta have a US H1B Program that it changed?I thought only the US had a H1B Visa program?Could you please clarify or enlighten us on this?

Secondly, I think you are jumping to conclusions when you say the recession is going to hit Canada. And why?Just because of a change in this program?Again, not sure how you figured this out but Im sure it'd help everyone here understand the reasoning behind this statement.


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

Newbie_Can_USA said:


> Okay once more Im a little bit confused. Does Alberta have a US H1B Program that it changed?I thought only the US had a H1B Visa program?Could you please clarify or enlighten us on this?
> 
> Secondly, I think you are jumping to conclusions when you say the recession is going to hit Canada. And why?Just because of a change in this program?Again, not sure how you figured this out but Im sure it'd help everyone here understand the reasoning behind this statement.


*Ok, Mr. Newbie_Can_USA*, for H1B read this "In January of 2009, The Province if Alberta Canada announced that they had officially approved a remarkable program allowing United States H1B holders to gain Canadian Permanent Residency under a fast Track Program, The Program is on a Fast Track and will generally take 12 months for Permanent Residence Status. 

1.The Applicant must be currently working in the United States in one of the following temporary skilled worker visa categories: H-1B, H1-B1, H-1C, E-3

2.You must have a minimum of one year of work experience in the United States in one of the qualifying visa categories listed above. " :ranger:

But unfortunately this is no more, Now lets talk of a U.S. recession's impact on Canada has some north of the border worried about job losses, particularly within the manufacturing sector in Ontario and Quebec. A U.S. recession would pinch Canada -- in particular the manufacturing sector -- since most of its exports of lumber, autos, machinery and petrochemicals are destined for the States.

This news is one of major example of this recession affect in Canada job market, if u can swallow it,i dont understand why people afraid or reluctant to face the reality? This is not conclusion, more to come just be ready!

All the best!


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

Charanjit said:


> Hi..
> 
> I just wish everthing goes well for us in Canada. I am trying to get all information I can about where can I live and work. I am not money hungry person but I just need good open area so that I can give space to my kids.. they can go around and have fun in open.
> I know everything is not bed of roses but I am a guy who can work hard non-stop
> ...


*Charanjit* concern of having Car, 
1. That cars sold in Canada are between $5000 to $10000 more than the same car in the USA where they get mnufactured, i think this is because of Those costs which are mainly driven by the currency, which affects all parts purchases and the cost of labour. There are also higher logistics costs, higher payroll taxes, higher fuel taxes and property taxes and electrical rates in Canada. so they all accumlate a very very expensive cars in Canada, keep in mind. buying a NEW car is much expensive in Canada than in US but buying a USED car is not much of a difference.

2. Insurance very key factor, I looked into some insurance companies in Ontario is almost $2000 per 6 months, which is too high. And without it dont even think to go on road.

I think Charanjit intially try to live where u can easily catch the train or bus, their are lot of suburbs in big city, just search on the net with "tips for new comers in Canada" and u will find imense info over their. if couldn't let me know i will help u.


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

jovi said:


> *Charanjit* concern of having Car,
> 1. That cars sold in Canada are between $5000 to $10000 more than the same car in the USA where they get mnufactured, i think this is because of Those costs which are mainly driven by the currency, which affects all parts purchases and the cost of labour. There are also higher logistics costs, higher payroll taxes, higher fuel taxes and property taxes and electrical rates in Canada. so they all accumlate a very very expensive cars in Canada, keep in mind. buying a NEW car is much expensive in Canada than in US but buying a USED car is not much of a difference.
> 
> 2. Insurance very key factor, I looked into some insurance companies in Ontario is almost $2000 per 6 months, which is too high. And without it dont even think to go on road.
> ...


Thanks for providing us with the descriptioin of the H1B program as it applies to the PR application. I was not under H1B so this is good information.

Now for the recession heading to the US, it already affected Canada back in May-July when Canada lost 100K jobs mostly in the auto sector. I believe I provided a link at that time on the report that stated that most of the job losses were in the automotive sector and the rest of the sectors such as finance remained stable. 

I dont think you need to BOLD my name and have a 30 font size just to answer simple questions that ask for clarification to your posts. This is a forum and its collaborative and there are always questions about posts since not everyone has the same background as you. We all learn from each other here. Of course, as seen from your previous posts, most people can easily see that you tend to concentrate on the negative (the glass being half empty).

I commend Charanjit on having the "right frame of mnd" and for preparing himself for reality (and not expecting a bed or roses upon his entry). 

Thanks for your clarification.


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## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Hello Friends (Newbie, Jovi and others)...

We are all on this forum for a common cause and that is to know about Canada (and way to over common issues like job, housing and getting settle with) and way I can get help from senior guys like you to get more information.

I am planning to come alone first and look for Job in Ontario (Toronto and GTA) first.. Also I am thinking of living in Brampton (I heard it is really good place outside city with pleasing people around). Any suggestion which is best and cheap place to live outside town with all facilities like hospital, schools and shopping area??.. where I can find job also?

I have registered (sent my resume) with few consultants over the net and phone about the job and I have been contacted by few...Also I would check on renting some cheap hotel from Internet for about month. Once I get use to my surroundings then I may move to some rented room for about 250$ to 400$ (Month) maybe share with some and find any job comes my way.

What I wanted to know that will I require Social Security Number at the earliest of that it would be also be one of the factors required to get job?? Am i right??? Please let me know? Also I heard are schooling free for children between 4 to 10 Grade.. Please correct me if I am wrong?? . I also read some where that some schools provide fee reduction??

Hope I am not asking for so much information.. as this forum/Wesite is only place where I am getting more information than any website.

Regards

Charanjit


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

Charanjit said:


> Hello Friends (Newbie, Jovi and others)...
> 
> We are all on this forum for a common cause and that is to know about Canada (and way to over common issues like job, housing and getting settle with) and way I can get help from senior guys like you to get more information.
> 
> ...


Stay positive!

Also, use the SEARCH function on this site for answers to some questions. (like sites to look for job, sites to look for apartments etc). This will help you save time and you can focus on your job search.


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

Newbie_Can_USA said:


> Thanks for providing us with the descriptioin of the H1B program as it applies to the PR application. I was not under H1B so this is good information.
> 
> Now for the recession heading to the US, it already affected Canada back in May-July when Canada lost 100K jobs mostly in the auto sector. I believe I provided a link at that time on the report that stated that most of the job losses were in the automotive sector and the rest of the sectors such as finance remained stable.
> 
> ...


Buddy do u mind if i put ur name in 30 font size with Bold, i forget to make it Italic and make the color pink, perhaps Charanjit didn't mind, did u Charanjit? 

I dont see pink elephants, i am very realistic, grass is always greener on the other side, so I always try to wake up peoples who are dreaming Canada a fairy land. Thats all nothing negative, not offending but not optimistic like u. 

Recession is not limited to auto sector only in Canada, do read this "Canada's jobless rate remained steady at 8.6% in July. Statistics Canada released the figures this morning. 45,000 jobs were lost, this didn't change he overall jobless rate as some people dropped out of the job market or gave up looking for work. The tourist trade was affected in the job figures. 22,000 jobs were lost in accommodation and food services, while 24,000 jobs were gained in wholesale trade. The construction trades lost 18,000 bringing the total to 120,000 since October. Manufacturing has dropped 218,000 since October."

So The global recession has done its share of damage to the Canadian job market, with nearly 370,000 employees shed from payrolls since last October. For workers lucky enough to keep their jobs, many have seen pay and benefits reduced. 

My main aim to raise this news was to make aware about the economy and jobs in canada is worse than in the US. Getting a job without permanent residence is like the saying we need chicken to produce an egg and vice versa.

But things will never remain the same, if today is hard hope their will be easy time soon, hope for the best for all. 

Cheers!:tongue1:


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

jovi said:


> Buddy do u mind if i put ur name in 30 font size with Bold, i forget to make it Italic and make the color pink, perhaps Charanjit didn't mind, did u Charanjit?
> 
> I dont see pink elephants, i am very realistic, grass is always greener on the other side, so I always try to wake up peoples who are dreaming Canada a fairy land. Thats all nothing negative, not offending but not optimistic like u.
> 
> ...



Im not your BUDDY so lets keep that straight. Secondly, I am going to choose not to involve myself in discussions that do not add value to this forum and in my opinion, this thread is moving in that direction. Period. 

Good Luck in your applications to however many countries you are applying to enter.


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

opps slip of tounge, u are absolutley right, the dry humour like u cant be my Buddy, i have given the answer what u stated (only auto sector), if u are not interested to gain further knowledge its upto u, never mind. so i stop this discussion right away.

Appreciate for your good luck, but I have applied to only Aus not many countries(as u said)


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## jovi (Jul 28, 2009)

Charanjit said:


> Hello Friends (Newbie, Jovi and others)...
> 
> We are all on this forum for a common cause and that is to know about Canada (and way to over common issues like job, housing and getting settle with) and way I can get help from senior guys like you to get more information.
> 
> ...


Hi Charanjit,

For your and other new expatriats to Canada, the following link might be very useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scharlack 
You may find this website useful.
http://ontario-cio.com/TIPS-_FOR-NEWCOMERS-TO-CANADA_PDF.pdf

Ontario (Toronto and GTA) is very expensive and the attitude to work is a lot more competitive.There are jobs out there, but many won't be advertised. If you do move to TO, register with as many agencies as you can. Any job you get in the first two years is very likely to be under $30k. The pay is absolute crap in Canada, it's worse in Vancouver than TO, Mind u Indian degree won't help you at all. Business/IT degrees gained outside North America are not well regarded. If you have good Maths qualifications and Statistics, you may get lucky with a firm who will test you out in the Finance area. You WILL get entry level pay only, unless you have something they want.

Accommodation can be very expensive, one might be paying well over $1000 a month for a small studio flat. (In Vancouver you can find a nice one bedroom for $750-$850 per month, incl heat and water, i been their for a while, make it a 2nd choice, its a great destination for Asian immigrants, but only problem is raining, lot of rain, all the time, either day or night).

Social Insurance Number (SIN), is one of the dummiest things in the whole immigration / settlement process. Starting from FINDING A PLACE TO LIVE, GETTING A JOB, or GETTING A CELL PHONE may be a nightmare without this number! It takes 3 weeks for the Human Resources Dept of Canada (HRDC) to issue SIN from the day you apply for it. Also do remeber HRDC won't process the 
SIN until you prove you are "landed", but when you apply most offices will give you your number if you ask politely .

So to get the flat on rent depends on your landlord, how much she/he liked you  , so she might disregarded the lack of SIN, but who knows if your potential landlord will?! Be prepared for some stress. They needed that number to run a credit search on you might be. But i heard that in Alberta a letter of certification to say that you had applied for a SIN number would be enough and accepted for everything you wanted to so, banks etc ..... Must be an Ontario thing.

Brampton is mini India, u will really findyourself to be in desi world, u would like tandoori chicken at 
Brampton Tandoori Restaurant
Brampton isn't really attached to Toronto at all but more of a suburban commutertown a good few km's down the two or three high ways you have to take.

Public schools are free in ontario, you have to pay if you want to send your children to private school. The only costs to parents are those "Mickey Mouse" costs that crop up during the school year for school trips, hot dog days and so on. Probably a few hundred a year per child. but beaware of drug and alcohal usage in Canadian high schools most specifically if u r thinking for BC.

Cheers!


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## phat-dave (Nov 19, 2008)

jovi said:


> I have applied to only Aus not many countries(as u said)


I'm not sure why you think Australia is the answer - you'll be heavily discriminated against in Australia and find life very difficult.


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

phat-dave said:


> I'm not sure why you think Australia is the answer - you'll be heavily discriminated against in Australia and find life very difficult.


Dave,


Hows it goin?Are you finally all set to head over?Send me a note when you arrive!Good Luck and safe travels.

Cheers.


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## phat-dave (Nov 19, 2008)

Newbie_Can_USA said:


> Dave,
> 
> 
> Hows it goin?Are you finally all set to head over?Send me a note when you arrive!Good Luck and safe travels.
> ...


Hey mate, hope you're well.

We leave on 10/13 - Doing a bit of a tour for eight weeks up the East coast from New York to Quebec City then flying over to Calgary and touring the West before deciding where to try and look for work.

I can't wait :clap2:


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## Newbie_Can_USA (Jan 17, 2009)

phat-dave said:


> Hey mate, hope you're well.
> 
> We leave on 10/13 - Doing a bit of a tour for eight weeks up the East coast from New York to Quebec City then flying over to Calgary and touring the West before deciding where to try and look for work.
> 
> I can't wait :clap2:


Very nice....well I guess you'll be my goto person when Im ready to do that 

Have fun, and lets touch base when you are in Calgary!


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## Charanjit (Sep 11, 2009)

Congrats Phat-Dave,

Wish you all the best and hope everything turns out to be wonderful for you.

Cheers


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

jovi said:


> Buddy do u mind if i put ur name in 30 font size with Bold, i forget to make it Italic and make the color pink, perhaps Charanjit didn't mind, did u Charanjit?


I completely agree with Newbie. There is no need for you to act like you are just because you have a problem. Newbie has been very helpful in contributing to this thread. You need to lighten up. You are obviously a very bitter person.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

phat-dave said:


> Hey mate, hope you're well.
> 
> We leave on 10/13 - Doing a bit of a tour for eight weeks up the East coast from New York to Quebec City then flying over to Calgary and touring the West before deciding where to try and look for work.
> 
> I can't wait :clap2:


Make sure that you allow plenty of time for New York City. It is the greatest city. We were there last summer in mid-Manhattan for 2 weeks and just loved it. There is so much to do and see and New Yorkers were the most helpful people I have ever seen. We are going back next year.


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## DanHoward (Oct 17, 2009)

Canada is without a doubt one of the greatest countries to live. Moved here in August 2007, no regrets whatsoever. British Columbia especially - such a slower paced lifestyle but has all of the aspects that make life worth living. Beautiful views, wonderful people and loads of space. What more could you ask for?


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## poptart (Nov 23, 2009)

I believe in most western countries if you hold some sort of certification (i.e. teaching, legal, medical, pharmaceutical) etc. especially if it's in a regulated field, this requires retraining. 

I know many expats here who are qualified in these fields and had to go through years of retraining to get requalified. I guess if you really want to live here then you have to go through the process. 

However, the Notcanada site was interesting to me. I thoroughly agree about the quality of healthcare here. It's atrocious. I have not had a single positive experience with the Canadian healthcare system here. The only positive thing I can say about is that it's cheap and available to everyone. That being said this is probably also why it's so bad. I would much rather prefer a foreign trained (albeit one trained in the US or Europe) over a physician trained in Canada. And definitely over any BC trained doctors. 

It's sad to hear that these same qualified medical professionals are restricted from practicing medicine in Canada where there is definitely a shortage of practitioners. 

I'm actually flying abroad to get care that I can't receive here in BC which is normally covered under my foreign insurance.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

poptart said:


> I believe in most western countries if you hold some sort of certification (i.e. teaching, legal, medical, pharmaceutical) etc. especially if it's in a regulated field, this requires retraining.
> 
> I know many expats here who are qualified in these fields and had to go through years of retraining to get requalified. I guess if you really want to live here then you have to go through the process.
> 
> ...


You are making sweeping generalizations without any evidence to support them. You're an American coming from a profit-centred medical culture. A Frontline report as recently as last week indicated the for-profit hospitals invest in high priced equipment then put many patients through unnecessary tests in attempts to recover costs and make money for shareholders. Nobody in Canada or the UK or other socially medicalized countries has ever lost their home because of horrendeous medical bills. That cannot be said for the USA, nor has any seriously ill person been dumped out outside a "charity" hospital by a "profit" hospital because that person had no medical insurance.
There's no doubt our system has faults but, as one who has extensively used the Canadian system, I can assure you I have had nothing but first class care with total costs in the past three years alone totalling well in excess of $1million. Directly from my pocket $NIL.
For you to say our medical care is atrocious is abjectly incorrect.
Doctors are supposed to be intelligent people, regardless of their origins. Those who come here from abroad should be well aware of the requalifying requirements before applying. If they cannot meet them or do not wish to participate in them then they have no-one to blame but themselves. I note your comment about prefering USA or European trained doctors to those trained in BC (presumably all of Canada). What about those trained in India, Pakistan, Russia and South America, to list but a few other places. Do you prefer them also? While spending a lengthy time as a patient in one of Canada's major training hospitals I encountered doctors in training there from all parts of the world, including USA.
You may well be financially priveleged to obtain your healthcare south of the border, however that privelege is denied to most. If you are in this category then please continue trotting south of the border for *ALL* your care. I welcome any savings on my taxes.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

Auld Yin said:


> You are making sweeping generalizations without any evidence to support them. You're an American coming from a profit-centred medical culture. A Frontline report as recently as last week indicated the for-profit hospitals invest in high priced equipment then put many patients through unnecessary tests in attempts to recover costs and make money for shareholders. Nobody in Canada or the UK or other socially medicalized countries has ever lost their home because of horrendeous medical bills. That cannot be said for the USA, nor has any seriously ill person been dumped out outside a "charity" hospital by a "profit" hospital because that person had no medical insurance.
> There's no doubt our system has faults but, as one who has extensively used the Canadian system, I can assure you I have had nothing but first class care with total costs in the past three years alone totalling well in excess of $1million. Directly from my pocket $NIL.
> For you to say our medical care is atrocious is abjectly incorrect.
> Doctors are supposed to be intelligent people, regardless of their origins. Those who come here from abroad should be well aware of the requalifying requirements before applying. If they cannot meet them or do not wish to participate in them then they have no-one to blame but themselves. I note your comment about prefering USA or European trained doctors to those trained in BC (presumably all of Canada). What about those trained in India, Pakistan, Russia and South America, to list but a few other places. Do you prefer them also? While spending a lengthy time as a patient in one of Canada's major training hospitals I encountered doctors in training there from all parts of the world, including USA.
> You may well be financially priveleged to obtain your healthcare south of the border, however that privelege is denied to most. If you are in this category then please continue trotting south of the border for *ALL* your care. I welcome any savings on my taxes.


You are just as guilty of what you accuse "poptart" of. At least he has experienced medical care in both countries which you obviously have not. Nobody in the US requiring emergency medical care is refused admission at a hospital. That is against the law. All hospitals MUST accept any patient requiring immediate care period regardless of their ability to pay. The vast majority of Americans receive excellent care and 88% are happy with their personal medical care. Unnecessary tests are indeed a fact but that is because of the threat of being sued requiring them to practice defensive medicine. That can be cured by tort reform which is necessary and won't cost anything. Some individual states have already done this.

I have experienced both systems having lived in both countries. There are horror stories about both systems and yes, reform is needed. However, you have made a lot of generalizations without any evidence or experience which is what you accused "poptart" of doing.

I have no intention of getting into a debate on Medical Care. I am simply pointing out that you have done the same thing you accuse "poptart" of doing.


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## poptart (Nov 23, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> You are making sweeping generalizations without any evidence to support them. You're an American coming from a profit-centred medical culture.


While I can go through your entire reply, and point by point make a rebuttal, I really just don't feel like it is worth my time.

However I will point out that there's 2 major flaws in your reply. Not once did I point out that am going south of the border (i.e. to the US) for care although that would be convenient. I'm actually going back to Europe to get care that is not covered here by BC MSP or supplemental insurance. It was cheaper for me to fly back there than to go pay for services which are covered under my health insurance there (which i still pay out premiums to retain residency and yes also has a universal healthcare system) than go pay out of my pocket for care in the US which again is not covered by any of my insurance here in BC. And care there was OUTSTANDING.

And for the other point, I'm going back for prenatal diagnostic testings which BC MSP won't cover if you're under 40 nor will your supplemental insurance cover. I know for a fact this is a purely political reason behind this. This amounts to over $2000. Oddly these tests ARE covered in other provinces like Alberta and Ontario. 

Regarding foreign trained physicians... i'm sure there's some good ones trained in BC/Canada. Apart from my dentist, I have yet to meet any. My experience is limited to offices/clinics in Vancouver over the past few years so I'm sure someone out there has had good experiences. I'm just stating from my own personal experiences. The current FP that I have is quite ok, she's South African. However, the resident that I saw in place of her one time, I will refuse to be seen by her ever again. And yeah she's trained at BC Women's Hospital. 

To be honest, I had come to Canada with an open mind and assumed having a baby here would be much easier than having one in Europe, at least this was North America, more like the US but better since health care was universal, what could go wrong? I'm not going to debate the health system here only state my own observations with it and compare it to other healthcare systems that I have been exposed to (in the US, in India, in Netherlands and in the UK). This is an expat forum after all. 

You forum junkies crack me up with your flame wars. That's so 90s.


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## poptart (Nov 23, 2009)

DanHoward said:


> Canada is without a doubt one of the greatest countries to live. Moved here in August 2007, no regrets whatsoever. British Columbia especially - such a slower paced lifestyle but has all of the aspects that make life worth living. Beautiful views, wonderful people and loads of space. What more could you ask for?


Well I could ask for affordable housing. Assuming though by loads of space you mean outside of Vancouver...


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## Oggy (Jan 25, 2009)

*chuckles* Yup, there certainly is more in BC than just the lower mainland of Vancouver and the Island. I will agree though, that some areas are certainly more costly than others.


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## joh (Dec 3, 2009)

notcanada - Yeah, unfortunately it's all true. But I wouldn't even tell you not to come though - come, give it a try, but understand what you are dealing with. It's not impossible to 'make it' in Canada, but land of opportunity this is not. If you can get a job in America or Europe, I'd recommend that instead.

I personally knew an foreign engineer that worked at McDonald's making burgers.

As for health care - I've been on an 8 month waiting list for minor surgery; I knew someone who's brother had cancer but the treatment was deemed 'experimental' and the socialized health care system wouldn't pay for it so they had to beg money from everyone they could find to send him to the US for treatment - Canadian health care isn't so great when you actually need it.

btw, why there are no/few good Canadian doctors is because they leave and go to America.

People die on waiting list here but Canadians don't mind because it's at least egalitarian. The different between Canadian health care and European health care is that private health insurance is _illegal_ in Canada but not in Europe (no 'queue jumping' as they call it).

Canada's flaw is that it's a profoundly stagnant culture (notice the lack of art and internationally competitive businesses).


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## kyle81 (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm really no expert, but after taking a quick look at the site to allay my own fears, I found that it seems to talk mostly about the experiences of the Indian sub-continent and the immigrants thereof? Scary stuff all the same, but I think I will do some more of my OWN research.


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## elliottja (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi
We are emigrating to Vancouver in a week. in the uk I am a qualified social worker. I may have to do more to be at the same level as I am here. Thats life I am afraid if I choose to live in another country you have to go with what there rules and standards are. I will do any type of job to put food on the table so speak. We are going to start a totally new life afresh away from the UK.


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## Bean (Dec 8, 2009)

Hi Charanjit

It is not easy to get work here. I know several skilled immigrants with excellent English/French working in retail, walking dogs to make a bit of money to pay their rent. 

I don't know what your profession is, but maybe it might help to contact some resettlement agencies (non profits designed to help new immigrants) or any professional bodies you may have to join to work here, to see if you need to re train. It does seem that a lot of immigrants I have met here have to go back to school!!

Qualifications also have to be assessed here (depending on your profession) this can be expensive and take time. It might be worth while looking into this also. 

Good luck


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## TaniaLondon (Jan 28, 2013)

My friends (UK citizens) once moved to Canada. With all their experience (15 years in banking with proper education) they never got a job out there. What they heard was "you've got no local experience". They struggled there for about a year doing some freelance jobs and eventually moved back to London to their normal salaries of £80-100K pa. 
That was a very surprising experience.


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