# I'm American, will my child be a US citizen?



## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

I was born in the US and lived there my whole life. My wife is a US citizen but was not born in the US. If we have a child in Australia and he lives there for his whole life, will he be a US citizen? If not, we may have our child in the US and then move to Australia.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> I was born in the US and lived there my whole life.  My wife is a US citizen but was not born in the US. If we have a child in Australia and he lives there for his whole life, will he be a US citizen? If not, we may have our child in the US and then move to Australia.


If you register the birth with the US consulate and get a passport ..the child
will have dual citizenship


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Details are here: Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad

Actually, the child will be a US citizen whether or not you register the birth with the consulate. But it's a really good idea to do so, because it will save considerable hassle later in life. (Especially if you get the child a social security number right away.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

Great news, thanks a lot. Looks like we aren't going anywhere....


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## sookoon (Sep 15, 2015)

I just posted a question to this same effect, but it has some additional information in it. My desire is to NOT have my child become a US citizen, and to NOT have a US passport, and to NOT have a social security number. 

Here's the forum post: expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/865402-my-child-forced-become-us-citizen.html#post8223658


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It isn't a matter of choice. If the child is born in the US, then he or she IS a US citizen. And if the child is born overseas, it depends on the status of the US citizen parent or parents. But if they are able to transmit citizenship, then the child is a US citizen from birth.

If you don't register the birth, the child may be able to lay low and avoid being "noticed" as a US citizen. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## sookoon (Sep 15, 2015)

Thanks Bev. Yes, my choice will be that she not be a citizen, so I will make every effort to not make her subject to the jurisdiction of the US. I love my country, but I fear my government.


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## MarylandNed (May 11, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> It isn't a matter of choice. If the child is born in the US, then he or she IS a US citizen.


There are exceptions. Children of foreign diplomats are not USCs even if born in the US.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Do note that:

1. While the child is a documented U.S. citizen the U.S. government could send you an Additional Child Tax Credit of $1,000 per year if you qualify. (You have to file a tax return, claim the credit, skip the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, and take only the Foreign Tax Credit -- and be among the working poor or middle class.) Over a childhood that's worth about $17,000 if you qualify.

2. The child is still legally a U.S. citizen, as Bev mentioned. If (when?) the child has a different view than you do -- wants to work in Hollywood, for example -- all you've done is made the child's situation harder and more bureaucratic. (Particularly if you were to predecease your child when he/she tries to correct what he/she views as a problem, being undocumented.)

3. Your child can terminate his/her U.S. citizenship at age 18, and the current fee to do so is $2350. If you want to support your child, that'd be a reasonable option, to document the citizenship (in case he/she wants to avail him/herself of it), take advantage of the benefits along the way (tax credit), and also offer to pay the termination fee.

4. There is a real risk even your views could flip on a dime -- that Chile (if that's where you are) could descend into dictatorship and terror (it has!) and you and your child suddenly would want to flee to the United States. Having a U.S. passport outside the United States is not a risk, but not having one is. It provides an actionable contingent option, in other words.

That said, I am not at all in support of adults foisting their political views on their (and others') children. In my view, those children should grow up to make their own decisions as adults, and that includes forming their own political views. So I keep as many options open as possible then let them decide.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just to put it all in perspective, if the child decides to claim his or her US citizenship later in life, the "bureaucracy" involved is just that, mostly paperwork. They would need to prove that the parent was, indeed, a US citizen (passport, birth certificate, nationality papers) and had lived a few years in the US after the age of 14 (I think it is - better check). If you want to leave the choice open to the child, you could always prepare an envelope with the appropriate documentation and make sure the child knows about it.
Cheers,
Bev


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## StellaJefferson (Sep 8, 2015)

Without all the legalese, a baby born in a foreign country where one parent is a US citizen can be a US dual citizen. Therefore, if you live in Australia and are married to an Australian or Australian citizen the baby is a US citizen.

However, you must take the following steps to register your baby: 
1. Go to the consulate with the baby
2. Original copy of the baby’s birth certificate
3. Original copy of the parent’s certificate of marriage
4. Parent’s passports
5. $65 USD


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## sookoon (Sep 15, 2015)

BBCWatcher said:


> 4. There is a real risk even your views could flip on a dime.
> 
> That said, I am not at all in support of adults foisting their political views on their (and others') children


Good info. Should things go south in Chile, we have two other non-US citizenships that we can choose from, so we have our bases covered. In light of of governments foisting their citizenships and indoctrination on my children, and society, foisting its broken, weaponized, toxic culture on my children, you'll be certain that I'll be 'foisting' my political views on my children. By and large, parents have far more of their children's interest at heart, than do governments or society as a whole. And I'm not even religious.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

sookoon said:


> In light of of governments foisting their citizenships....


With you so far. Yes, the U.S. has (past tense) "foisted" U.S. citizenship on your child. Already done when she was born. Exactly what the Brazilian government has done under that country's laws, presumably -- no different.



> ....and indoctrination on my children, and society, foisting its broken, weaponized, toxic culture on my children....


And now you've lost me completely. Objectively, the U.S. government is doing nothing of the sort, and you're frankly delusional if you think it is. Your child does not live in the United States, and the U.S. government is not broadcasting anything to your child, not compelling her to attend any school or institution, not sending agents to her home, not hiding under her crib or bed.... The U.S. government is making no arguments to your child whatsoever and has nothing to do with her upbringing. (Though maybe it should! You're scaring me.) The only thing the U.S. government has done is made legal fact her U.S. citizenship, a legal state of being. That's it, that's as far as it goes.

At age 18 if she, then a young woman, doesn't want even that already existing legal fact then she can take her _documented_ U.S. citizenship, appear at any U.S. embassy or consulate (note: not in the United States -- no U.S. travel required), pay $2350 (or the then current fee), and get an official certificate terminating the legal fact she currently already possesses.

Children, particularly young children, don't have your or my hangups. And thank goodness for that.


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## MarylandNed (May 11, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just to put it all in perspective, if the child decides to claim his or her US citizenship later in life, the "bureaucracy" involved is just that, mostly paperwork. They would need to prove that the parent was, indeed, a US citizen (passport, birth certificate, nationality papers) and had lived a few years in the US after the age of 14 (I think it is - better check). If you want to leave the choice open to the child, you could always prepare an envelope with the appropriate documentation and make sure the child knows about it.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Just a clarification here because, whether you meant to or not, you're making the child's US citizenship status sound like a choice. It's not really a matter of the child "claiming" US citizenship. The child is either already a USC or isn't. What the child would be doing is applying for PROOF of his/her existing US citizenship. Whether the child chooses to apply for proof or not does not affect whether or not he/she is in fact already a USC. 

As a USC, the child would be expected to use a US passport to leave/enter the US and would also be liable to file US tax returns (dependent on income) on worldwide income regardless of where the child lives. For a USC, these things are not options - these are mandatory per US law. If the child wishes to avoid these regulations, he/she would need to renounce US citizenship when old enough to do so - simply deciding not to apply for proof of USC is not enough to avoid them.

Having said that, the child might be able to lie low, play dumb, not apply for proof of USC, and carry on life as if he/she wasn't a USC. However, that's a risky strategy that could cause big problems.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just to put it all in perspective, if the child decides to claim his or her US citizenship later in life, the "bureaucracy" involved is just that, mostly paperwork. They would need to prove that the parent was, indeed, a US citizen (passport, birth certificate, nationality papers) and had lived a few years in the US after the age of 14 (I think it is - better check). If you want to leave the choice open to the child, you could always prepare an envelope with the appropriate documentation and make sure the child knows about it.
> Cheers,
> Bev


US citizenship is a birthright with rights and obligations to be taken seriously. Not a "well this week I am one of them". It does not matter what mommy wants or does not want.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm well aware that the US will consider the child a US citizen - IF they have reason to have dealings with the kid. But if the child was born outside the US and simply visits the US (on his or her own without the US parent, or without any tie to the US parent being evident), there is no reason for the Immigration agent to question anything when the child presents a non-US passport with a non-US place of birth.



> However, that's a risky strategy that could cause big problems.


Or not. Depending on whether or how often the child "visits" the US, or whether or not the child ultimately decides to seek residence in the US.

I'm not advocating the "lie low and say nothing" approach. But there are plenty of folks out there already doing that (with or without knowledge of their situation) and unless something triggers questions from the US authorities, it is possible to live in relative peace and harmony like that.
Cheers,
Bev


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## MarylandNed (May 11, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm well aware that the US will consider the child a US citizen - IF they have reason to have dealings with the kid. But if the child was born outside the US and simply visits the US (on his or her own without the US parent, or without any tie to the US parent being evident), there is no reason for the Immigration agent to question anything when the child presents a non-US passport with a non-US place of birth.
> 
> 
> Or not. Depending on whether or how often the child "visits" the US, or whether or not the child ultimately decides to seek residence in the US.
> ...


Agreed. I know you're well aware that the child is a USC (assuming the father can pass on US citizenship). However, the point of my post was to make sure that the OP wasn't confused by the wording you chose in terms of "claiming" US citizenship. Some people might think that implies that if the child doesn't "claim" it, then the child is not a USC - that is clearly not true. I know what you meant but a better way to put it is to say that the child would be applying for proof of his/her existing US citizenship. The child would still be a USC even if he/she didn't apply for proof.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> Or not. Depending on whether or how often the child "visits" the US....


Which would be illegal without a U.S. passport.

I'm with MarylandNed here. Let's be careful to stick to the facts and not mislead, and that's an important fact, too.



> I'm not advocating the "lie low and say nothing" approach. But there are plenty of folks out there already doing that (with or without knowledge of their situation) and unless something triggers questions from the US authorities, it is possible to live in relative peace and harmony like that.


For now, sometimes, perhaps even often. Yes, people break laws, for example. (I would have preferred you stopped at that first sentence, by the way.)

Here's one growing problem I see with an "ostrich" approach. Though nobody can predict the future with complete certainty, we can reasonably predict that all governments, particularly developed economy governments, will get increasingly sophisticated in data collection and analysis, and it will continue to get progressively less expensive to collect and analyze ever larger and more complete quantities of data. That's just how the technology is evolving and will evolve -- it's perfectly, reasonably predictable. The only question will be motivation. If the government (any government) _wants_ to discover particular facts and take action, they probably will be able to, at least in the future, and with ever increasing ease. It's pretty easy for me to imagine scenarios when the U.S. government will get more interested in more vigorously enforcing 22 CFR § 53.1. Here's one scenario: a U.S. citizen enters the United States on a foreign passport, does something stupid and violent, Congress and the public get angry, and the Department of Justice then goes after 22 CFR § 53.1 offenders past and present. Pretty easy to imagine, really, and no conspiracy theories are required. The only degree of imagination required is to imagine that the government will merely increase its enforcement of its existing laws, and that's hardly imaginative.

....And what's the upside here? I _really_ don't see the point. Why would any responsible parent intentionally start his/her kid off in life as a law breaker without at least one _damn_ good reason? Talk about imposing one's hangups and failings on one's kid! It makes no sense to me whatsoever. My parenting approach is to help my child comply with all applicable laws absent a _damn_ good reason otherwise. I can't think of any other responsible approach to take.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

With all this discussion back and forth, I have to wonder about the situation for those US citizens living abroad who do NOT have the necessary "time in residence" to transmit their US citizenship to their kids. What, precisely, do they do when visiting the US en famille with their non-citizen children?

Used to be, it was rare for Immigration to question even those with US birthplaces presenting foreign passports - or at most they were "warned" about the need to have a US passport next time they enter the US. But for the family in question, if Mom or Dad has a US passport but the kids don't, how does one "prove" (on the fly like that) that one is lacking the ability to transmit their citizenship to a child born overseas? (Kind of the classic example of the futility of trying to prove a negative.)

And, that's another "inconvenience" passed on to the next generation. Child born overseas with a US parent able to transmit is definitely a US citizen and legally requires a US passport to enter the US. Now, said child grows up and has one or more kids, having never resided in the US at any point in his or her life. The kids are NOT US citizens, but if the family visits the US together, there is going to be an issue on entry every time. (Or at least every time that an astute Immigration agent is working the lines.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> With all this discussion back and forth, I have to wonder about the situation for those US citizens living abroad who do NOT have the necessary "time in residence" to transmit their US citizenship to their kids. What, precisely, do they do when visiting the US en famille with their non-citizen children?
> 
> Used to be, it was rare for Immigration to question even those with US birthplaces presenting foreign passports - or at most they were "warned" about the need to have a US passport next time they enter the US. But for the family in question, if Mom or Dad has a US passport but the kids don't, how does one "prove" (on the fly like that) that one is lacking the ability to transmit their citizenship to a child born overseas? (Kind of the classic example of the futility of trying to prove a negative.)
> 
> ...


Inconvenience? Do not travel to the U.S. Denounce citizenship or as suggested here - use the other passport.


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## MarylandNed (May 11, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> Child born overseas with a US parent able to transmit is definitely a US citizen and legally requires a US passport to enter the US. Now, said child grows up and has one or more kids, having never resided in the US at any point in his or her life. The kids are NOT US citizens, but if the family visits the US together, there is going to be an issue on entry every time. (Or at least every time that an astute Immigration agent is working the lines.)
> Cheers,
> Bev


I don't see why there would be "an issue on entry every time" in this scenario. The place of birth of the US passport holder would be outside the US so it's perfectly reasonable to believe that US citizenship could not be passed on to the kids by descent. It might raise more questions if the kids did have US passports.

Besides, CBP is not that interested in catching USC's who are pretending not to be USC's simply to avoid having to travel on US passports or to avoid US financial regulations (such as filing US tax returns on worldwide income).


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

MarylandNed said:


> I don't see why there would be "an issue on entry every time" in this scenario. The place of birth of the US passport holder would be outside the US so it's perfectly reasonable to believe that US citizenship could not be passed on to the kids by descent. It might raise more questions if the kids did have US passports.


Not necessarily. There are plenty of US citizens born outside the US who have lived the necessary time in the US to transmit US citizenship to their kids. And actually, plenty born in the US who are NOT eligible to transmit to their kids. (Like Boris Johnson, for example.) The question is simply how to prove that should you be traveling en famille with the kids on non-US passports.



> Besides, CBP is not that interested in catching USC's who are pretending not to be USC's simply to avoid having to travel on US passports or to avoid US financial regulations (such as filing US tax returns on worldwide income).


Hopefully not, but you never know when that might change. And actually, they are starting to question this more and more lately. People are more regularly pulled aside if they show a foreign passport with a US place of birth. (Daughter of a friend of mine was detained for an hour while her mother had to cool her heels worrying about her.) 

Frankly it was all easier back in the day when a kid born with dual nationality had to choose one or the other at age 18.
Cheers,
Bev


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