# Confusing thought



## gasman1065 (Mar 23, 2011)

Whilst driving around this last few weeks , I was wondering why does Cyprus fly the Greek flag and not its own Cypriot flag ?


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

gasman1065 said:


> Whilst driving around this last few weeks , I was wondering why does Cyprus fly the Greek flag and not its own Cypriot flag ?


This is lost in the annals of time. But ask any Cypriot "what nationality are you?" and he will almost undoubtedly reply: "I'm Greek".


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

gasman1065 said:


> Whilst driving around this last few weeks , I was wondering why does Cyprus fly the Greek flag and not its own Cypriot flag ?


someone told us it was because the Cypriot flag had ben designed by a Turkish person. 

People in our village are very proud to be Cypriot.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

There is a strong tradition of support for Greece in the ROC which I personally find frustrating and infuriating. History shows that Greece has never done anything desirable for Cyprus other than bequeath a language. Yet Greek Cypriots continue to celebrate Greek Independence Day and Ochi Day and absurdly fly the Greek flag.

I would hope the younger generation will see fit to realise and understand this and stand proud of their own flag and country.

It would be interesting to see a genetic mapping of the Greek Cypriot population which, like many countries, must have interbred with all it's rulers during history. I suspect rather less of a Greek line would be seen.

Pete


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

southcoastlady said:


> someone told us it was because the Cypriot flag had ben designed by a Turkish person.
> 
> People in our village are very proud to be Cypriot.


Cypriot Flag Designer

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Its interesting to read that neither Greece or UK want to continue as guarantor states after a solution is reach between ROC and the north. And that UK has promised that most of the British territory will be returned to Cyprus


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> Its interesting to read that neither Greece or UK want to continue as guarantor states after a solution is reach between ROC and the north. And that UK has promised that most of the British territory will be returned to Cyprus


Have you got a source for this Anders? It's certainly the first time that I've heard any of these assertions...


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Have you got a source for this Anders? It's certainly the first time that I've heard any of these assertions...


I will try to find the article. It was in either Cyprus Mail or In Cyprus, citing Ban Kee Mon.

The statement that UK will return most of the SBA is older and from Cameron

"by the way the UK has made a very big and I think generous offer that as part of a proper comprehensive settlement we will surrender a significant proportion of the land mass of the Sovereign Base Area in Cyprus to allow economic development of southern Cyprus.”


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Yes I saw that article at the time that it was published. I think it was the Cyprus mail.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Baywatch said:


> I will try to find the article. It was in either Cyprus Mail or In Cyprus, citing Ban Kee Mon.
> 
> The statement that UK will return most of the SBA is older and from Cameron
> 
> "by the way the UK has made a very big and I think generous offer that as part of a proper comprehensive settlement we will surrender a significant proportion of the land mass of the Sovereign Base Area in Cyprus to allow economic development of southern Cyprus.”


The statement about the guarantor states is from The British High Commission in Nicosia citing a statement from the State department in June 2015


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

PeteandSylv said:


> Cypriot Flag Designer
> 
> Pete


thanks for that Pete. Wiki to the rescue again.


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

gasman1065 said:


> Whilst driving around this last few weeks , I was wondering why does Cyprus fly the Greek flag and not its own Cypriot flag ?


Well done Gasman… see what you have started now :boxing:


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

Genetics studies have proven that the Cypriot population is more or less homogeneous and as such more classificable as Cypriot rather than Greek or Turkish, but such science has little to offer in the debate of what individuals 'feel' about their identity. Cypriots in my own circle of friends and family identify themselves as Greek because of their education which is very firmly rooted (like most aspects of Greek Cypriot life) in the Greek Othodox Church.


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## gasman1065 (Mar 23, 2011)

Lol south Coast lady , thanks for the replies though


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## Talagirl (Feb 24, 2013)

A bonus is that we get Public Holidays for both Greece and Cyprus.


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## gasman1065 (Mar 23, 2011)

I work for a British firm Clare , they only shut down when it's a British bank holiday 😕


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Talagirl said:


> A bonus is that we get Public Holidays for both Greece and Cyprus.


I'm not so sure that that is a bonus. The shops are always flippin shut.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Veronica said:


> I'm not so sure that that is a bonus. The shops all always flippin shut.


Haven't you learned after 11 years here that there is 330 or something other days they are open


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

gasman1065 said:


> I work for a British firm Clare , they only shut down when it's a British bank holiday 😕


Oh, poor Gasman.. how long till pension day…..:evil:


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## gasman1065 (Mar 23, 2011)

15 years to go southcoast lady 😕


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

southcoastlady said:


> Oh, poor Gasman.. how long till pension day…..:evil:


You see, many of us has to work for a living


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## zach21uk (Jun 26, 2014)

Personally I do not get the whole "Greek" thing.

I am more than happy to identify with my Cypriot heritage, I have no issues with it and I am proud of it.

I am quick to point out whenever anyone confuses the difference between Greek and Cypriot.


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

Baywatch said:


> You see, many of us has to work for a living


… and some of us have worked for 45 years (or longer) and can now sit back and enjoy the sunshine.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

southcoastlady said:


> … and some of us have worked for 45 years (or longer) and can now sit back and enjoy the sunshine.


I will do that in seven years on my Cypriot pension....


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

zach21uk said:


> Personally I do not get the whole "Greek" thing.
> 
> I am more than happy to identify with my Cypriot heritage, I have no issues with it and I am proud of it.
> 
> I am quick to point out whenever anyone confuses the difference between Greek and Cypriot.


I am sure that also go for the majority of the Greek Cypriots.


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

gasman1065 said:


> 15 years to go southcoast lady 😕


Don't wish it away...you will be old before you know it!!!


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## KatarinaC (Aug 15, 2015)

To be honest...that thing about the flag is something I don't care about. 
First, my moto is live and let live...and second I am just a stranger here so internal affairs of Cypriot people are not for me to disscuss.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

KatarinaC said:


> To be honest...that thing about the flag is something I don't care about.
> First, my moto is live and let live...and second I am just a stranger here so internal affairs of Cypriot people are not for me to disscuss.


Where is the harm in discussing these issues? We are all guests here and we are not dictating how the Cypriots should behave, we are just observing and reasoning with our own thoughts. The results of this have opened up further knowledge in their history which cannot be a bad thing.

In addition residents here have certain voting rights which means that Cypriot internal affairs are to be discussed.

Live and let live may apply in certain circumstances but not all. I would not apply it to IS.

Pete


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## KatarinaC (Aug 15, 2015)

Sorry, I was just expressing my personal opinion.
Didn't mean to start an argument.


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## Talagirl (Feb 24, 2013)

Must admit I have never felt myself as a 'guest' in any country I have visited, lived or worked in as it was my choice to go there and I fitted the criteria. I do like to learn about the culture and be able to communicate with the people in their own language, albeit the extent of my knowledge depending on my particular interests at the time.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> Where is the harm in discussing these issues? We are all guests here and we are not dictating how the Cypriots should behave, we are just observing and reasoning with our own thoughts. The results of this have opened up further knowledge in their history which cannot be a bad thing.
> 
> In addition residents here have certain voting rights which means that Cypriot internal affairs are to be discussed.
> 
> ...


I think there is a difference between people in this case. Brits has a history together with Cyprus, which is quite special. And probably mean that Brits have more interest in Cyprus then others..

The voting right is OK for me but in my opinion the right to get elected to council should be kept for the Cypriots.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> The voting right is OK for me but in my opinion the right to get elected to council should be kept for the Cypriots.


I think that when voting for the national government it is for the Cypriot passport holders to choose, but for local councils, it should be the residents - Cypriot, British, Russian - even Swedes!


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

KatarinaC said:


> Sorry, I was just expressing my personal opinion.
> Didn't mean to start an argument.


Doesn't take much sometimes! :boxing:


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> I think that when voting for the national government it is for the Cypriot passport holders to choose, but for local councils, it should be the residents - Cypriot, British, Russian - even Swedes!


I said I agree to the voting, but not to have expats in the council. 
For me the politics and culture here is so different that it should be handled by Cypriots. The expat voters should vote for the people that want progress, and that way influence.
I have not met any expat I would vote for. Firstly because of the language.
There is an expat on council in Peyia and I have talked a lot to her, she is a lawyer and speak perfect Cypriot. She say it is almost impossible. 

An interesting thing in the national election is that Cypriots are allowed to vote in the UK parliament election, but not the other way round, which many of the expats in Pissouri seem unfair


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> I said I agree to the voting, but not to have expats in the council.
> For me the politics and culture here is so different that it should be handled by Cypriots. The expat voters should vote for the people that want progress, and that way influence.
> I have not met any expat I would vote for. Firstly because of the language.
> There is an expat on council in Peyia and I have talked a lot to her, she is a lawyer and speak perfect Cypriot. She say it is almost impossible.
> ...


I think that it would be completely fair, democratic and quite refreshing to have true representation of the local populace in the local council, rather than just Cypriot just because they are Cypriot. We all keep referring to Peyia as 'Little Britain' - rightly or wrongly. If there are so many British residents living there, then why should they not be properly represented on local matters? We can all (including British) learn a great deal from the way other countries do things. We call it 'best practice' and it applies everywhere in my opinion.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> I think that it would be completely fair, democratic and quite refreshing to have true representation of the local populace in the local council, rather than just Cypriot just because they are Cypriot. We all keep referring to Peyia as 'Little Britain' - rightly or wrongly. If there are so many British residents living there, then why should they not be properly represented on local matters? We can all (including British) learn a great deal from the way other countries do things. We call it 'best practice' and it applies everywhere in my opinion.


That is just the danger. With foreign members of council. That Cyprus will be turned into something else, something not Cyprus. 
But we have different opinions.
I don't think f.ex that if a local council in Sweden or UK would get a majority of Muslims, it would be a good idea because it would change the society. I live in Cyprus because I like the Cypriot way of life, culture etc. I don't want it transformed to something else. Luckily that will never happen, not even in Peyia, because the expat group is not homogeneous in there voting


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> That is just the danger. With foreign members of council. That Cyprus will be turned into something else, something not Cyprus.
> But we have different opinions.
> I don't think f.ex that if a local council in Sweden or UK would get a majority of Muslims, it would be a good idea because it would change the society. I live in Cyprus because I like the Cypriot way of life, culture etc. I don't want it transformed to something else. Luckily that will never happen, not even in Peyia, because the expat group is not homogeneous in there voting


Of course it's OK to have different opinions, and I'm not trying to change yours, but only to understand it. 

In some inner city areas of the UK, all shop names and advertising is in Urdu, there are minarets dotted around the place and seemingly everyone wears Islamic dress. Even the air is filled with the smells of spices, exotic food and the call to prayer. Not so long ago, you couldn't even watch UK TV on a Sunday morning unless you could speak Urdu! I must admit that I don't particularly like any of this, as our culture is being steadily overwhelmed by those who wish to live in the UK but continue to maintain their own culture - and refusing to assimilate ours. Consequently, we are being fed halal meat without our knowledge, our schools are no longer allowed to have morning (Christian) assemblies and some areas are 'no go' for native English people. Many of these people even wish to impose Sharia law on us all!

However, this situation is a direct result of uncontrolled immigration by successive governments, and we now have to deal with it, which (in my opinion) includes proper representation by people to shape the policies of the area in which they live. If we did not allow that, then we cannot claim to live in a democratic society.

As far as Cyprus is concerned, I do believe that to vote for Central Government is a matter for Cypriot people - ie those who hold Cypriot passports. However, for local matters, I see no reason why residents, who pay through the community charge for their councils to even exist, should not have the right to vote - whichever passport they hold. 

You refer to the 'Cypriot way of life' and the 'Cypriot culture' not changing. I would content that the Cypriots who may think in this way themselves, are the stumbling block to finding a solution for the Cyprus problem. What is the 'Cypriot way of life' if you are able to ignore 30% of the population (ie Turkish Cypriots). You are surely then left with a Greek way of life...


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

David_&_Letitia said:


> I must admit that I don't particularly like any of this, as our culture is being steadily overwhelmed by those who wish to live in the UK but continue to maintain their own culture - and refusing to assimilate ours.


I agree and was very saddened when years of integration policy were wiped out by Blair's multiculturalism policy which has now been deemed officially as a failure and has led to the current situation of "ghettos".




David_&_Letitia said:


> As far as Cyprus is concerned, I do believe that to vote for Central Government is a matter for Cypriot people - ie those who hold Cypriot passports. However, for local matters, I see no reason why residents, who pay through the community charge for their councils to even exist, should not have the right to vote - whichever passport they hold.


Again I agree as this involves integration of the differing groups. I would even extend this to having non-Cypriots on the Town Councils while acknowledging the enormous difficulties presented by language and tribalism that this would entail.



David_&_Letitia said:


> You refer to the 'Cypriot way of life' and the 'Cypriot culture' not changing. I would content that the Cypriots who may think in this way themselves, are the stumbling block to finding a solution for the Cyprus problem. What is the 'Cypriot way of life' if you are able to ignore 30% of the population (ie Turkish Cypriots). You are surely then left with a Greek way of life...


No country cannot afford not to evolve and progress today and Cyprus is no exception. However introducing new methods, systems and infrastructure need not deny the traditions and values of the past. There are always exceptions to this and one notable one is the clinging to the memory and principles of EOKA that is present in some areas. In time this will die out. I am the last person to want instant change or for Cyprus to lose it's old world charm - I have been vocal about this in the past, but there are many areas that need updating and a huge drawback to achieving this is the Cypriot tendency to want to do things their way rather than learning and adopting best practices from elsewhere.

I believe the Cyprus problem would be solved tomorrow if the people had their will. The biggest stumbling block in the past was the Idiot President of the ROC and the idiot negotiator from Turkey who were unable to see past their own swollen egos. Today is a different matter and a solution is realistic however it is still in the hands of politicians and politicians are motivated differently to normal human beings. We can only hope.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> I agree and was very saddened when years of integration policy were wiped out by Blair's multiculturalism policy which has now been deemed officially as a failure and has led to the current situation of "ghettos".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to say I don't think the Cyprob will be so easy to solve, with or without politicians. There is still very much to stumble on.I am not at all sure that a new referendum will end in another way then the last one. If however the young generation of Cypriots dared to vote on their belief and not how the family demand them to vote, then there is hope.

Perhaps the biggest issue will be the property that got lets say "misplaced" after the 1974 problem. 

Another issue for the Greek-Cypriots will be the Turks right to remain on the island.

And of course the troops on the island.

Many say that a solution all depends on what Turkey want. I think that is correct but, perhaps Turkey is more positive than many thinks. And Turkey will not do anything against the will of US. Turkey is very much dependent on US as a NATO member. Especially now with the threat from ISIS and other groups

But this is ofc my private opinion


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> Turkey will not do anything against the will of US.


Agreed. This includes the 1974 invasion.

Extract: The Trial of Henry Kissinger (III) | Books | The Guardian


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Agreed. This includes the 1974 invasion.
> 
> Extract: The Trial of Henry Kissinger (III) | Books | The Guardian


The first invasion 1974 were also agreed with UK to be in the accordance with the Guarantor Agreement. The second was the problem.

But I don't believe in conspiracy theories. I keep to proven facts


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## wizard4 (Feb 3, 2013)

I like this thread its hysterical, shows you how a simple question about the Cypriot flag has blossomed into a variety of subjects firstly there are two flags that have been proposed, one of which depicts both sides of the island and before anybody asks I researched this as I was looking for a Cypriot flag for my model boat, anyway we have covered Greek or Cypriot or a bit of both, the UK handing back territory, and invasion, sorry if missed anything, and informative, rock on folks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Ray


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