# Alcohol intake, Spain v UK



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

I like a drink on weekday evenings in the UK, it tends to drift to afternoons at weekends with a couple of large glasses of wine with the evening meal. I very rarely drink spirits and stick to those very small bottles of French beer.

In Spain I drink far less beer, a lot more wine and have a liking for Spanish brandy. Before you start recommending an AA course I just wondered how you guys handle your booze. I am on holiday when I come over and tend to drink coffee and soft drinks in the mornings with a couple of brandy's at around 1.00pm, along with a few small bottles of beer and copious amounts of water. Evenings bring around say four large glasses of red wine followed by a couple of brandy's.

I don't think that I am doing much different than other holidaymakers,but when we come over for two months stints to road test a permanent move I think that the brandy will have to be a weekend treat. We don't spend hours in bars, only beach side ones for a couple of small beers when we have a beach walk, I have to admit however that alcohol is a factor in our lives.

I often notice Brits tucking in to their full English breakfasts accompanied by pint after pint of ice cold beer, I suspect that the full roast meal in the evening will fare the same drink wise. The Spanish appear to like their drink but don't throw it back as though they fear a shortage of it. Whenever I walk past an occupied villa there is most often than not, alcohol of some description, on the table.

Is it because drinking in Spain is far more visible than in the UK, or is it an alcoholic's paradise?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

ime - The average Spaniard drinks more than the average Brit - but do so over time and generally with some form of food.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I've seen Spanish construction workers in bars at 7am for a wee nip! Then at 10am and again at 2pm for lunch.....followed at 7pm for a nightcap! LOL 

BUT, I've only ever seen 1 drunk Spaniard - drinking in moderation seems to be the order of the day.

Myself, I rarely drink these days (I do miss the £1 a pint Uni days! LOL) but probably drank more in the Middle East than I have done in Europe for a while!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Yes, the Spanish here have alcohol for breakfast!

I tend to drink more beer now in the summer, and more wine in the winter months. I usually have at least a can at night, maybe 2 and if we have wine its a couple of glasses. I was aware when we moved here that it would be very easy to stay in the holiday mentality and drink alcohol too regularly. There are those here in this area who seem to do nothing but drink, all day long!


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Interesting thread - lol

From my experience the Spanish defintiely like a drink, but many Spaniards consider the British to have serious problems with alcohol and I have been told numerous times about how the binge drinking Brits cause so many problems (particularly on the costas).

The alcohol abuse is a key reason why many Spaniards don't like the British.

Regards, Dave


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

It's VERY easy here to be drinking non-stop without getting sloshed - but make no bones about it - unfit for many things (driving for example).

A beer with the morning "Almuerzo" - Wine with lunch and maybe a liquer. Another "something" with the afternoon "stiffener" (tea?) and something with supper - maybe followed by a nightcap.

Also VERY common for the "sobremesa" to take you from lunch to supper with "cubatas" at the weekend or holidays. The result is that you simply get nothing done - as you're too relaxed. Add Spanish working hours - and it's worse still. All you do is sit in front of the box.

Decided recently to stop. I wanted to do other things.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I personally have never got into the drinking thing. I love my life here so much I dont want to blot any of it out by drinking too much! I have the occasional glass of wine, but to be honest, I'd sooner have a glass or two of coke light!

But I do prefer the relaxed attitude here to drink. Its rare to see the spanish binge drinking, its far more of a social and relaxing thing to do. Is that because the way of life here is more relaxed? I often wonder why, in the UK, drink tends to cause so many more problems than here??

Jo


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> Its rare to see the spanish binge drinking, its far more of a social and relaxing thing to do. Is that because the way of life here is more relaxed? I often wonder why, in the UK, drink tends to cause so many more problems than here??
> 
> Jo


The Spanish way of life is essentially relaxed and they don't have to put up with many months of cold, wind and rain (apart from up North ), so I would imagine this is why the Brits have the bad image for binge drinking.

Binge drinking has also become a trendy thing to do for young people in the UK, which is very worrying indeed and its the constant reports of Brits behaving badly abroad that the Spanish regularly talk about.

Benal Madena was recently on the news highlighting binge drinking louts from the UK and what a nuisance they cause. Benidorm is another, Ibiza obviously and the last time I was on the Costa del Sol there were many binge drinking Brits in Torremolinos and Fuengirola and the police presence (with dogs) in Torremolinos was there for all to see - not good.

On a personal note, I used to drink a lot in the UK, but since spending so much time in Spain, I rarely drink these days and my OH does not drink any alcohol.

Regards, Dave


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Interesting thread - lol
> 
> From my experience the Spanish defintiely like a drink, but many Spaniards consider the British to have serious problems with alcohol and I have been told numerous times about how the binge drinking Brits cause so many problems (particularly on the costas).
> 
> ...


Hi Dave,
I dont see anyone mentioning botellon,the younger Spanish equivalent of binge drinking which has been causing increasing problems of late.
Also beginning to be a problem here in Sweden when the younger ones meet up in parks 2 hours before a football match and get well drunk before going in.
Soccer riots here now are like the UK had 20 year ago.
Letting your hair down on holiday is one thing but excess at all times of day when living in Spain is another and will cause problems eventually.
The combination of too much through the day plus excess heat or sun can also make it difficult to be fit to enjoy the evening time.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> The Spanish way of life is essentially relaxed and they don't have to put up with many months of cold, wind and rain (apart from up North ), so I would imagine this is why the Brits have the bad image for binge drinking.
> 
> Binge drinking has also become a trendy thing to do for young people in the UK, which is very worrying indeed and its the constant reports of Brits behaving badly abroad that the Spanish regularly talk about.
> 
> ...


It's been a crossroads for me, 20 years ago it was almost obligitory to take part in the lunchtime session with fellow management/workers. Evening sessions at the local village pub were a must, so I stopped doing both. The problem is that I do like a drink, those tiny 25cl bottles of beer are helpful as one of them lasts me as long as a pint. 

God, when I think back, after playing football the team decended on the pub and the first two pints didn't touch the sides of your mouth, the following four went down slower, but the session only lasted just over an hour, and that was before going out at night for the main one. 

I put on a very distant act when I find myself in hard drinking company, I stick to soft drinks taking the whimp jibes in my stride as I know that I am capable of drinking the lot of them under the table, and still being able to walk away. I avoid like the plague any club or association where alcohol takes a major part in it's activities, a few pints at my local is now just a distant memory. 

Quite a few of my contemporaries are now long dead due to heavy drinking, one of my best friends has been on a life support machine three times, he's an ex lawyer who practiced his profession drunk and still drinks to excess. The last drink related funeral that I went to was a good friends who held a skippers licence, he was found drowned after falling off the boat p----d up and high on cannabis whilst moored up in Crete. 

I have sorted myself out after a fashion, I will go home tonight and have six of the little bottles of beer followed by two or three glasses of red wine with dinner. A lot, some of you may say, but at least I have attempted to face up to the demon that has devoured so many of my friends. Spain will be a challenge, but one that I think I am now capable of rising to, must remember to take care with the Spanish brandy though. 

I have never mentioned any of this to a living soul before today, thanks for listening guys, and take care.

Regards

David


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

And thank you for sharing your story, David. Too often we hear of the capers people get up to when drinking, and yes, they can be hilarious, but there is the dark side to alcohol which can lead to a series of tragic events, not only affecting the drinker, but sometimes those around them.

I went from Uni to the Army and alcohol plays a massive part in both cultures. Sadly, I saw too many good people succumb to the devil. My Grandfather was also an alcoholic who simply never saw the effects his disease had on his loved ones.

Alcohol should be respected at all times.


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

I have never mentioned any of this to a living soul before today, thanks for listening guys, and take care.
Regards
David 
Dave, you´re not alone, I think/hope I have my habit under control, no drink before 8pm, then 3/4 of a bot. of red wine followed by one small 25cl beer. The problem is, my checkups say theres nothing wrong with my liver!.
Hated it last year when we were on a cruise, early sitting at 5-45pm., what to do?. 
I used to admire the Spanish/French for their drinking habits, wine with water for the kids with a meal out, but an Anis Dulce/Seco for breakfast!!. Regards Rob
PS. I feel so well I´m worried about it!.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

crookesey said:


> It's been a crossroads for me, 20 years ago it was almost obligitory to take part in the lunchtime session with fellow management/workers. Evening sessions at the local village pub were a must, so I stopped doing both. The problem is that I do like a drink, those tiny 25cl bottles of beer are helpful as one of them lasts me as long as a pint.
> 
> God, when I think back, after playing football the team decended on the pub and the first two pints didn't touch the sides of your mouth, the following four went down slower, but the session only lasted just over an hour, and that was before going out at night for the main one.
> 
> ...


Thats a brave post .... thanks for sharing


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> so I would imagine this is why the Brits have the bad image for binge drinking.
> 
> Binge drinking has also become a trendy thing to do for young people in the UK, which is very worrying indeed and its the constant reports of Brits behaving badly abroad that the Spanish regularly talk about.


A LOT OF THIS is also publicity to direct attention away from the SPANISH BOTELLÓN. It's certainly a BIG issue in Madrid - and starting to hit the villages too. It has much to do with Transport and liquid costs in Bars. 

Massive street level binge drinking "parties" - generally youngsters - sadly very often VERY under-age - as low as 13. Totally illegal but often so large the police simply cannot cope. Visit Madrid centre at 7AM on Sat or Sun. This is also I know an issue in Sevilla and it's creeping out. It's a major PITA if one initiates where you live. 

The Brits have a reputation for binge drinking. Why - well the original license laws did little to help - you had to fit it in that small "window". But once here it was(is) still very cheap and easy to get & do. 

Crooksey - Well done for sharing. But from VERY SIMILAR experiences try STOPPING for a while. If you can stop and NOT suffer withdrawal symptoms it's not addiction. I'm doing this RIGHT NOW. I find just cutting back does not help much or last long. 

This is my 3rd STOP. 

The First was under advice prior to a MAJOR mountaineering expedition to increase oxygen retention in the blood. 

The 2nd was simply due to a revaluation of finances. When I came to Spain from Germany - I was downing 4-5 litres of beer and a bottle of wine daily - and went through about a bottle of spirits every Friday evening as cocktails. Business lunches etc here are seriously heavy too. I don't miss this aspect of my ex-life at all.

The current stop is due to losing too much free time simply waiting for it to wear off (prior to driving) or simply "not being bothered about other things there are to do". It started to annoy me this summer - but we had commitments to attend things so went along with it all. Have another invite from some of the same folk this weekend - and I'm seriously concerned that it will not be the same. Thankfully they're not pushy "gwan, just one" type folk.

I'm not preaching - I love wine. And have developed a taste for Patcharan. But I've found STOPPING then restarting allows you to better redefine your wish limits.


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## stepper19 (Jul 9, 2008)

Crooksey - Well done for sharing. But from VERY SIMILAR experiences try STOPPING for a while. If you can stop and NOT suffer withdrawal symptoms it's not addiction. I'm doing this RIGHT NOW. I find just cutting back does not help much or last long. 

Hi all,

I totally agree with Chris regarding stopping drinking for a while.

I live back in England now and do like a drink when i finish work and on a weekend.

I'm 34 and didn't stop for any medical reason but realised that since my late teens i hadn't really gone any considerable length of time without having a drink. I am no way a heavy drinker and rarley get drunk but 2 yrs ago and twice since i have stopped for 2-3 months. Once was over the Christmas period as well!

After a few days you start to feel proud of yourself and then when you start ticking off 2-3 weeks you feel brilliant! Really pleased that you've done it and then you don't want to drink to spoil all the good work you've done! 

Physically you feel better but in my experience mentally you feel a lot stronger and are more positive than you felt before.

I gave myself a target of say 2 months before a stag do or a family wedding when i knew i would be drinking and this gave me something to look forward to.

You lose weight as well and find yourself wanting to eat healthier etc.

So well done Chris and keep going!!

Stepper


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> The Brits have a reputation for binge drinking. Why - well the original license laws did little to help - you had to fit it in that small "window". But once here it was(is) still very cheap and easy to get & do.
> 
> Crooksey - Well done for sharing. But from VERY SIMILAR experiences try STOPPING for a while. If you can stop and NOT suffer withdrawal symptoms it's not addiction. I'm doing this RIGHT NOW. I find just cutting back does not help much or last long.


Shall I, no I won't, oh go on then......it was about 3 years ago I realised that I had a problem with alcohol, drinking far too much (binge drinking) on a regular basis.

It was soon after I moved to Spain actually.

I had one particular binge session that left me having to apologise to several people for my behaviour, even though I could remember next to nothing of what I did the night before and needed someone else (a good Spanish friend) to tell me

After that humiliating experience I tried to stop my binge drinking, I would manage to do this for several weeks and then would give in to temptation.

About a year ago, I stopped drinking for 3 months before going out and making a fool of myself on another one of my famous binge sessions. It was then I realised that my crazy nights out were affecting my relationship.

I still have the odd night of binge drinking, but its been 2 months since the last one and I have no idea when the next session will commence.

Suffice to say, my OH is much happier these days than she was say a year ago.

Regards, Dave


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I can take or leave alcohol, I've never felt the need to binge drink although I've had moments that my poor brain cell can't remember! I also hated the fact it took me 2 days to recover and to me, thats a waste of 2 days of my life! My biggest vice is smoking, once I've cracked that problem, I'll be a very happy bunny!!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

The only binge drinking I get involved in is when one of the numerous neighbours invites us for lunch ..... which begins about 1 and tends to go on until 7 or 8 in the evening.

A lot of wine is drunk, and I pay for it the following day


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> My biggest vice is smoking, once I've cracked that problem, I'll be a very happy bunny!!


Live in the UK then - every time we go -THE COST brings my wifes consumption WAY down. Spain is not helpful in this respect!

It's getting "fun" btw regarding ciggies in Spanish restaurants. I know one or two around us that DO NOT HAVE A SMOKING ZONE. And it's an increasing happening. Bars tend to be smoking zones.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> The only binge drinking I get involved in is when one of the numerous neighbours invites us for lunch ..... which begins about 1 and tends to go on until 7 or 8 in the evening.


Eh? - that's early! Where we go, Lunch merges into supper generally and finishes at closer to midnight or past it! - Sometimes it's repeated the next day too.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Live in the UK then - every time we go -THE COST brings my wifes consumption WAY down. Spain is not helpful in this respect!


I refuse to pay Gordy's prices and bought back a few cartons from Dubai; cheaper than Spain at only £5 for 200!!  I'm also living in the UK at the moment, it's not stopped me one iota!

Seriously, I'll have to give up soon but won't tell anyone!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> Eh? - that's early! Where we go, Lunch merges into supper generally and finishes at closer to midnight or past it! - Sometimes it's repeated the next day too.



I cant keep going as long as I used to


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> I cant keep going as long as I used to


Takes a VERY brave man to admit that!!! LOL


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Pasanada said:


> Takes a VERY brave man to admit that!!! LOL


I knew someone would say that

I originally typed "I cant keep it up as long as I used to" and then had to change it.


You're a smutty lot!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> I knew someone would say that
> 
> I originally typed "I cant keep it up as long as I used to" and then had to change it.
> 
> ...


Don't know what you're referring to, Stravinsky, I was talking about boozing!


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Don't know what you're referring to, Stravinsky, I was talking about boozing!


My wife keeps saying that it's all in my head, if only I could have it lowered by about three feet. But after saying that, this comes from a woman who thinks that sex are things that Irish folk store potatoes in.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Hahahaha!! I liked that one, Crookesey!!


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Live in the UK then - every time we go -THE COST brings my wifes consumption WAY down. Spain is not helpful in this respect!
> 
> It's getting "fun" btw regarding ciggies in Spanish restaurants. I know one or two around us that DO NOT HAVE A SMOKING ZONE. And it's an increasing happening. Bars tend to be smoking zones.


I have yet to see a small bar that is No Smoking, which I suppose is understandable with regard to likely loss of trade.
However with regard to the bigger bar restaurants little has changed in my area.
We did have one with a seperate room but not any more and a few try to seperate smokers to one side of the restaurant but generally nobody seems to care.
It was reported last year that the head of the Valencian govt.had scrapped the new national smoking laws altogether.
Wonder how things are in other areas?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> It was reported last year that the head of the Valencian govt.had scrapped the new national smoking laws altogether.
> Wonder how things are in other areas?


As you say they are NATIONAL - One day they'll lay into Valencia. They cant ignore it - simply have inadequate policing to cover everywhere. 

Here (Madrid) VERY stiff. But seems that here many eaters prefer a NS environment - even the smokers. My wife smokes - I don't. We often eat in smoking sections where there are any. But since they installed these hiper-ventilation systems - I'm more worried about catching a chill than smelling smoke.

Small bars have also benefited from the public building and large office smoking bans. Smokers pop in for a coffee too.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> As you say they are NATIONAL - One day they'll lay into Valencia. They cant ignore it - simply have inadequate policing to cover everywhere.
> 
> Here (Madrid) VERY stiff. But seems that here many eaters prefer a NS environment - even the smokers. My wife smokes - I don't. We often eat in smoking sections where there are any. But since they installed these hiper-ventilation systems - I'm more worried about catching a chill than smelling smoke.
> 
> Small bars have also benefited from the public building and large office smoking bans. Smokers pop in for a coffee too.



If they are banning smoking, they should ban alcohol too in my opinion! 

jo


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> If they are banning smoking, they should ban alcohol too in my opinion!
> 
> jo


Hear hear!! I'm fed up of having to deal with drunks! You never see me, a smoker, unable to drive due to be over the limit, unable to speak as I fall off the bar stool, make sexually suggestive remarks because booze has taken away my inhibitions or fly off multi storey car parks because I'm grown wings!!


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

jojo said:


> If they are banning smoking, they should ban alcohol too in my opinion!
> 
> jo


You cannot be serious!
The whole darn country runs on alcohol,
Probably bring everything and everybody to a dead halt,
There would be riots rebellions and the govt.would be overthrown,
There would be a huge black market for moonshine
And it would be like Chicago in the 30s,
No,Cannot believe you are serious.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> You cannot be serious!
> The whole darn country runs on alcohol,
> Probably bring everything and everybody to a dead halt,
> There would be riots rebellions and the govt.would be overthrown,
> ...


Can't see the harm in a little bit of anarchy myself


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

littleredrooster said:


> You cannot be serious!
> The whole darn country runs on alcohol,
> Probably bring everything and everybody to a dead halt,
> There would be riots rebellions and the govt.would be overthrown,
> ...


So why ban cigarettes?? Ban em both or ban neither - they're both as bad as each other. Thats my point!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> So why ban cigarettes?? Ban em both or ban neither - they're both as bad as each other. Thats my point!


Cigs aren't banned around here.
I know of one coffee bar that has a separate smoking room, but all the bars I have been in around here allow smoking as normal. They have stickers on the windows announcing so!


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> If they are banning smoking, they should ban alcohol too in my opinion!
> 
> jo


 You've just taken away two of my four main food groups!


Doggy


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

owdoggy said:


> You've just taken away two of my four main food groups!Doggy


Aye doggy and thee won' find Soggy chips wit'mushypeas either.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> So why ban cigarettes?? Ban em both or ban neither - they're both as bad as each other.


Not quite. 

The conceptual point is that a smokers exhalations affects the health and wellbeing others. Except for EXTREME BINGE occasions this is generally not a drinkers issue. 




BARF! - oops sorry!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Not quite.
> 
> The conceptual point is that a smokers exhalations affects the health and wellbeing others. Except for EXTREME BINGE occasions this is generally not a drinkers issue.
> BARF! - oops sorry!


Drinkers can affect my health and wellbeing too. I'm glad I'm here to tell the story, others aren't so fortunate.

I'm a considerate smoker, I never smoke around non-smokers and have no issues being in non-smoking establishments. If a bar allows smoking and it's signed as such, non smokers should not complain, they have a choice.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pasanada said:


> Drinkers can affect my health and wellbeing too. I'm glad I'm here to tell the story, others aren't so fortunate.
> 
> I'm a considerate smoker, I never smoke around non-smokers and have no issues being in non-smoking establishments. If a bar allows smoking and it's signed as such, non smokers should not complain, they have a choice.



I agree, and having worked in the health service in the UK I can assure everyone that alcohol causes more disress, injuries, ill health, damage, ruined lives... on those close (physically and mentally) to a serious drinker than to a smoker.

Which would I sooner walk into, a bar full of drunks or a bar full of smokers?

I personally dont object to either smoking or drinking, its a personal choice. I strongly believe that the ban on smoking is wrong, it should be allowed in the same places as alcohol - segregation or air con removes the smell - apart from restaurants


jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> If a bar allows smoking and it's signed as such, non smokers should not complain, they have a choice.


Totally - but equally smokers should not whinge when they enter a no-smoking place and cannot. But often they do!. 

Do I detect a "thump" somewhen involving booze? - That's becoming less of an issue here - But distraction from using MOBILEs on the rise. Now those I would ban!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't complain about entering a non smoking establishment, non smokers have the right to enjoy a social life without smoke as I have a right to enjoy one with.

I also enter bars where alcohol is served, as a non drinker (about 2 drinks a year on average!!), I've no problems with that, my biggest problem is someone getting into their vehicle after.....now that IS what I call damn inconsiderate!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> ...now that IS what I call damn inconsiderate!


Not to mention illegal. Mind you I've a mate who was hit by a smoking driver who was fiddling with the lighter - so.........

My wife has a little moan every so often about no smoking restaurants - she smokes, not much, but after meals. 

We have an ( rarity in rural Spain) Indian near us. They're not able to put split A/C in. So are N/S. The head waiter there smokes too - and in Winter in Madrid it's cold in the doorway. Am I considerate - Why yes - I keep her coffee from getting cold -I drink it


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

In my part of Spain and probably in many if not all of Spain, I often watch the PL/GC lads have a few drinks whilst on patrol......it's not just the civilian population who commit this offence.

I've eaten in many non smoking establishments worldwide, I can wait for a cig, I'm patient!


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Not quite.
> 
> The conceptual point is that a smokers exhalations affects the health and wellbeing others. Except for EXTREME BINGE occasions this is generally not a drinkers issue.
> 
> ...


I agree with Chris on this one as far as bars and restaurants are concerned,especially in my area.
The drinkers have a choice to drink alcohol or not.
With regard to smoking there is virtually NO choice, as all the small bars are thick with smoke and most of the restaurants are still affected to a greater or lesser extent.
I can only presume that the head of the Valencian govt.who apparently threw out the new smoking laws is a heavy smoker himself.
With regard to alcohol and smoking at home that is a seperate or family issue.

Trying to ban either now, is a non starter as it would cause many more problems than it would solve and simply couldnt be done because of issues such as creating a huge black market or criminals paradise with everything else involved from big time mafias to small time gangsters.

The time to ban it was 400 year ago when Sir Walter brought in the first shipload.
However it appears that Lizzie the First enjoyed her old clay pipe judging by Walters knighthood.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> With regard to smoking there is virtually NO choice, as all the small bars are thick with smoke and most of the restaurants are still affected to a greater or lesser extent.


As a smoker myself, I think smoking should be banned in all enclosed public spaces, as its not right than non-smokers should have to breathe in second hand smoke

They banned it in the UK and many other countries, so why not Spain ?

Maybe the answer lies in the fact that more Spaniards smoke than any other European nationality and that many cafeteria's and bars would lose significant profits and some would simply have to close shop and that means more people without jobs

As for banning the sale of Tobacco, I doubt it will ever happen, as the government makes far too much money from the taxes on cigarettes

I would however be in favour of banning the production of cigarettes and wiping out tobacco plantations throughout the world, as then I could not smoke 

Regards, Dave


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Dave, I used to like you!!! LOL

Personally, EVERYONE should be given the choice. I'm very aware of non smokers around me and will walk away from them rather than smoke near them, it's selfish of me to think it's ok to do so.

I adore shisha smoking and am angry the British Govt closed these places down; shisha can be herbal and not tobacco based so I cannot see the argument. Roll on next week, I'm heading down to Cartagena to a lovely Moroccan restaurant where I can lie on a sofa, smoking my beloved shisha and listen to soothing Arabic tunes......


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> As a smoker myself, I think smoking should be banned in all enclosed public spaces, as its not right than non-smokers should have to breathe in second hand smoke
> 
> They banned it in the UK and many other countries, so why not Spain ?Regards, Dave


They banned it in France but (in the bits I've been to) nobody takes the blindest bit of notice .................... as if we expected the French to be any other way


Doggy


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

owdoggy said:


> They banned it in France but (in the bits I've been to) nobody takes the blindest bit of notice .................... as if we expected the French to be any other way
> 
> 
> Doggy



Spain did have a ban but the Spanish took no notice so it had to be modified, obviously its the same in France (interestingly, both countries have the lowest rate of heart diease and cancer in Europe, the UK has the highest). I personally think its disgraceful that a government should dictate something like this. Bars and public places should be allowed to choose whether they allow smoking or not, then they's be a fair sprinking of both. 

And as I say, if the government ban cigarettes then they should ban booze as well in my opinion cos the two things are just as bad and dangerous as each other

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> Bars and public places should be allowed to choose whether they allow smoking or not, then they's be a fair sprinking of both.


Here under a certain size - THEY CAN AND DO. 

Over a certain size , if food is served, they have to either put in a specially conditioned smoker zone or stay 100% N/S. Some areas DO NOT POLICE IT - but if you were to put it into the "Libro de reclamaciones" they'd HAVE TO. This would btw seriously affect your chances of a "welcome" thereafter. 

Here it was/is VERY seriously policed. I know one excellent bar in Madrid that is 100% NS. I was taken there by a chain smoker - as he says it's worth the denial because the HAM IS SO GOOD.

And no I'm not telling anybody where it is - it's hard enough to get in. 80cents a beer - incl Tapa. It survives on the midday trade - shuts at 5PM


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

jojo said:


> Spain did have a ban but the Spanish took no notice so it had to be modified, obviously its the same in France (interestingly, both countries have the lowest rate of heart diease and cancer in Europe, the UK has the highest). I personally think its disgraceful that a government should dictate something like this. Bars and public places should be allowed to choose whether they allow smoking or not, then they's be a fair sprinking of both.
> 
> And as I say, if the government ban cigarettes then they should ban booze as well in my opinion cos the two things are just as bad and dangerous as each other
> 
> Jo


Small bars DO have a choice wether or not they opt for smoking or no smoking.
Unfortunately this has resulted in Hobsons choice or NO choice at all for non smokers or others affected by, or allergic to the smoke.
Obviously the bar owners are concerned about likely loss of trade if they go no smoking. 
Even where Chris lives,a well policed area, apparently there is only one and at present I am not aware of any on my patch.
Not really a choice.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> Even where Chris lives,a well policed area, apparently there is only one and at present I am not aware of any on my patch.
> Not really a choice.


It's not close to me, but is close to a suppliers office.

There maybe more too. I'm not big on bars really, and hardly ever venture into the city (horrid places). Tend to go out more to eat. GENERALLY restaurants have two zones, and where we sit depends on who's with us. That or they're NS.

BUT BARS ARE GENERALLY SMOKERS HAVENS HERE. THIS BY CHOICE OF THE PUBLICAN AND HIS HABITUAL CLIENTS. Totally democratic and I'll not criticise them for it. 

btw Since the law forced the issue - many bars have seen their takings INCREASE by being smokers havens. So it's a VERY sound decision. One or two small restaurants do suffer a bit though if they're unable to fit split A/C systems.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

As a drinker and a smoker myself (don't really have a lot going for me do I ? ). I'm not aversed to some controls. However the draconian way that the UK has dealt with smoking issues is farcical. I often notice well inebriated customers of licenced premises staggering out to the smoking areas, that prior to the ban was were where folk with children gathered, now they have to put up with drunkards blowing smoke all over them. 

The old official smoking area in the Alicante departure lounge is now the unofficial smoking area, there are no astrays, cigarette ends are strewn all over the floor, stubbed out in empty MacDonald's trays etc. Malaga airport does have a small smokers room that overlooks the runway, it has a large central astray. The former is a filthy disgrace whilst the latter is a sensible alternative. I am certain that these measures have been forced on the airport authorities by their own staff, as there are always plenty of them using them.

I'm a big believer in not enforcing my vices on others, but if I go for a meal or a drink on an outside terrace and the table has an ashtray on it I take it that the owner does not mind me smoking. I am often minded to tell folk who continually rabbit on and on into their mobile phones whilst seated at the next table to desist, but as I am smoking, hypocracy comes to mind. They are usually the ones who let their kids run around the restaurant screaming and causing mayhem but see no harm in it. 

All that is required is common sense and good manners.

'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'. Credited to both:-

Sir Douglas Bader 1910-1982 & Sir David Ogilvy 1911-1999. Very wise words.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

crookesey said:


> As a drinker and a smoker myself (don't really have a lot going for me do I ? ). I'm not aversed to some controls. However the draconian way that the UK has dealt with smoking issues is farcical. I often notice well inebriated customers of licenced premises staggering out to the smoking areas, that prior to the ban was were where folk with children gathered, now they have to put up with drunkards blowing smoke all over them.
> 
> The old official smoking area in the Alicante departure lounge is now the unofficial smoking area, there are no astrays, cigarette ends are strewn all over the floor, stubbed out in empty MacDonald's trays etc. Malaga airport does have a small smokers room that overlooks the runway, it has a large central astray. The former is a filthy disgrace whilst the latter is a sensible alternative. I am certain that these measures have been forced on the airport authorities by their own staff, as there are always plenty of them using them.
> 
> ...


Interesting post.Ive heard mixed reports from the UK,with regard to both punters and publicans. Some seem happy with the new arrangement,incl smokers,others not so.
Not seen the state of the airport,but to most Spanish the floor is the ashtray and rubbish bin especially in bars,however it does help keep the top of the bars reasonably tidy I suppose.
I fully agree with you regarding unruly kids and mobile phones,which is one reason I tend to avoid bar/restaurants at weekends and normally just use them weekdays when its usually cheaper anyway.
According to a recent survey the Spanish are the Worlds best talkers and I wouldnt argue with that judging by the noise level in some bars.
Quite often when sitting with my back to the rest of the customers, I get the mistaken impression from the noise level that the place must have filled up,yet on looking around I see to my surprise there are only 5 or 6 customers all talking at the same time and apparently competing to see who has the loudest voice.
Did D.B.not have a nasty mishap whilst ignoring rules?


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

crookesey said:


> As a drinker and a smoker myself (don't really have a lot going for me do I ? ). I'm not aversed to some controls. However the draconian way that the UK has dealt with smoking issues is farcical. I often notice well inebriated customers of licenced premises staggering out to the smoking areas, that prior to the ban was were where folk with children gathered, now they have to put up with drunkards blowing smoke all over them.
> 
> The old official smoking area in the Alicante departure lounge is now the unofficial smoking area, there are no astrays, cigarette ends are strewn all over the floor, stubbed out in empty MacDonald's trays etc. Malaga airport does have a small smokers room that overlooks the runway, it has a large central astray. The former is a filthy disgrace whilst the latter is a sensible alternative. I am certain that these measures have been forced on the airport authorities by their own staff, as there are always plenty of them using them.
> 
> ...


Love it! Perfectly composed and reiterates my sentiments entirely!


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