# Working without a contract and being caught



## Sarajanexx

Today while at work the SS came into the Restraunt I work in nobody has contacts and I was just wondering what will happen as the owner gave them my name nie number ect but I'm only working for cash.


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## xabiaxica

Sarajanexx said:


> Today while at work the SS came into the Restraunt I work in nobody has contacts and I was just wondering what will happen as the owner gave them my name nie number ect but I'm only working for cash.


are you paying autónomo payments??


I would make an educated guess that the owner has told SS that all his staff are self-employed - they'll check to see if you you've been paying autónomo NI & tax

when/if they discover that you haven't there will almost certainly be some sort of automatic fine for non-payment - plus of course you'll have to pay the NI & tax you should have paid in the first place

that will be best-case scenario - charges could be brought against you & the other workers & you could end up in court


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## jojo

As mentioned before, Spain is in crisis and is clamping down on illegal workers (amongst other things). If you havent registered as self employed/autonomo, then I guess either you or your employer will have to back pay from when everyone started work????? I dont know if fines will be incurred too????

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Sarahjane,
I'd just like to say I think you've been very unfair to the people who tried to give you advice on the forum, and have also given advice to people looking for work which was totally misleading


> _My name is Sara I moved to Spain on the 10th of may 2012 even though I had received negative comments from everyone saying i would not find work and i was being stupid.. as i didn't speak much Spanish and there is a recession on... Within three weeks of being here i have managed to turn down two jobs that didn't suit me and have one that i love to bits! Have made loads of new friends and i am really enjoying it. What can i say.. maybe i got lucky. I think if you are hungry for it you will always succeed! I'm not trying to sugar coat it by any means sorting out paper work and finding a job is scary when you are in another country alone. After you grow some balls and get it done its worth it for sure!!
> 
> Ignore any negative comments, If you want it.. go and get it. _


You are working illegally in a precarious job. You should have told people that.


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## gus-lopez

Who, apart from a Spanish official, would believe that there are 'self-employed' bar /restaurant staff ?
That's like believing the police are self-employed.


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## jojo

gus-lopez said:


> Who, apart from a Spanish official, would believe that there are 'self-employed' bar /restaurant staff ?
> That's like believing the police are self-employed.


 I guess the bar owner has to say that otherwise he would be in serious trouble. Altho I'd have thought that when he employed people, he should be expected to make sure that these people ARE autonomos to cover himself. Not sure the bar will survive this anyway. He's gonna have to either contract his staff (at a cost) or find these elusive autonomo waitresses - thats if he doesnt get a huge fine. I'll bet this has sent ripples across all the bars/restaurants in the area


Jo xxxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I guess the bar owner has to say that otherwise he would be in serious trouble. Altho I'd have thought that when he employed people, he should be expected to make sure that these people ARE autonomos to cover himself. Not sure the bar will survive this anyway. He's gonna have to either contract his staff (at a cost) or find these elusive autonomo waitresses - thats if he doesnt get a huge fine. I'll bet this has sent ripples across all the bars/restaurants in the area
> 
> 
> Jo xxxx


he probably will be

when I worked for an academy we didn't get contracts - I'm not sure how the owner sorted 'wages' out, but we were paid in cash

I _was_ paying autónomo, but I'm pretty sure no-one else was

in fact the boss wasn't happy when I told her I was........... & that I was 'billing her for my hours'.............just one of the many reasons we fell out & I jumped before the place closed down


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## jojo

Once upon a time, Spain got away with this "cash in hand", "black money" economy - that was when it was good to move to Spain, the relaxing lifestyle etc. But then Spain joined the EU, it was given money to modernise and now it needs to pay that money back and to support its new modern communities and lifestyle - it has to turn to its residents and their taxes. Taxes need to be paid. No one likes tax dodgers in the UK, ok, people do bits and pieces cash in hand, but its not how businesses are run. Lets face it, how many jobs in the UK, waitress staff included, can you get that dont offer contracts, allow you to work without paying tax, NI etc. ???? 

This is why Spain now insists that all of its new residents prove income and healthcare - they are trying to stop people coming over to their country and just taking!

Thats my view of it!!?

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

This has confirmed my views about many immigrants to Spain.

If I posted my views the Mods would delete them.


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## Abyss-Rover

gus-lopez said:


> Who, apart from a Spanish official, would believe that there are 'self-employed' bar /restaurant staff ?
> *That's like believing the police are self-employed*.


Sometimes if feels like they are. Someone once asked me if they pay tax on their "on the spot" fines.


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## MaidenScotland

This happened to the restaurant next door to me last year.. a swoop.

The restaurant owner was fined 7,000 euros.. plus other costs.. he then put the place up for sale. 

I wonder if they only check up on foreign owned bars etc?


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## leedsutdgem

MaidenScotland said:


> This happened to the restaurant next door to me last year.. a swoop.
> 
> The restaurant owner was fined 7,000 euros.. plus other costs.. he then put the place up for sale.
> 
> I wonder if they only check up on foreign owned bars etc?


No, they check on spanish places too. My husband is a waiter and theyve been round there on lots of occasions.


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## Sarajanexx

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sarahjane,
> I'd just like to say I think you've been very unfair to the people who tried to give you advice on the forum, and have also given advice to people looking for work which was totally misleadingYou are working illegally in a precarious job. You should have told people that.


The owner had told us he was paying our tax ect.. It was only after yesterday we found he hadn't been, There are a lot of jobs in the area I live in and i know many many people that have contract work also, didn't mean to be misleading


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## Sarajanexx

Should I just do one then before they come back to check?


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## jojo

Sarajanexx said:


> Should I just do one then before they come back to check?


 It depends how much they decide you owe. I dont think they'll chase you back to the UK, your NIE is linked to your passport etc. so it is possible for them , altho if you ever visit Spain again they may re- open their enquiries

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

Sarajanexx said:


> The owner had told us he was paying our tax ect.. It was only after yesterday we found he hadn't been, There are a lot of jobs in the area I live in and i know many many people that have contract work also, didn't mean to be misleading


it was pretty obvious when you posted before about not having a contract, that it was 'working on the black' .............. if everything is above board you get a contract



Sarajanexx said:


> Should I just do one then before they come back to check?


they have your NIE number now - there's not much point


anything you do now - if you do get a proper contracted job or sign on properly as autónomo, they will chase you for back payments & the fine will just get bigger - they add interest............... they will also assume that you have continued working illegally until such time as they find you & charge you for NI & tax for that period too


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## jojo

Sarajanexx said:


> The owner had told us he was paying our tax ect.. It was only after yesterday we found he hadn't been, There are a lot of jobs in the area I live in and i know many many people that have contract work also, didn't mean to be misleading



If he was paying your tax then you'd have to have a contract - you should have been aware of that - sadly ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. However guilty the owner was, he's gonna try to cover his own @*** and put the blame on his workers?! Either way someone's got to pay

Jo xxx


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## NickZ

Sarajanexx said:


> Should I just do one then before they come back to check?


May be head to Costa del Sol?


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## Sarajanexx

Not sure weather the boss could find my NIE or not but did give my name.. And told them myself and another girl were having a one day trail, which they will know is a lie because they would have been watching the place..


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## jojo

Sarajanexx said:


> Not sure weather the boss could find my NIE or not but did give my name.. And told them myself and another girl were having a one day trail, which they will know is a lie because they would have been watching the place..


Well, i wouldnt risk it. From what I can see you are in a mess. If you apply for a job WITH a contract, they'll trace you, if you do another illegal job, the chances are they'll catch you again - they are tightening up on this sort of thing - Its this thats not helping spains economy. 

whether they have your NIE or not, I'm fairly sure the boss will move heaven and earth to find you and "it", otherwise he'll have to carry the can and his fines and paybacks will not be insignificant!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Sarajanexx said:


> Should I just do one then before they come back to check?


What does "do one" mean?


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> What does "do one" mean?


Do a runner. Disappear.

You really must try and keep up with these English colloquialisms Pesky! 

E.g. I heard that "simpa" (as in sin pagar) is the Spanish equivalent for sneaking out without paying the bill?!?


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> You really must try and keep up with these English colloquialisms Pesky!


You are absolutely right!

I thought it meant that, but then again I couldn't quite believe that the OP would post that!
She has asked for advice on the forum about coming to Spain, rejects that advice and also criticises the advice she has been given, gets into trouble with the Spanish authorities and owes them money, comes to the forum again to ask for advice and then asks if she should do a runner.

:jaw: Words fail me:jaw:!


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> You are absolutely right!
> 
> I thought it meant that, but then again I couldn't quite believe that the OP would post that!
> She has asked for advice on the forum about coming to Spain, rejects that advice and also criticises the advice she has been given, gets into trouble with the Spanish authorities and owes them money, comes to the forum again to ask for advice and then asks if she should do a runner.
> 
> :jaw: Words fail me:jaw:!


 Sadly, I think its the UK culture and part of the reason why people want to move to Spain - they think its easy, I seriously believe that those who express a desire to live in spain because they're fed up with the UK are actually saying that they're fed up with paying taxes, expensive rent, food etc - they dont realise that Spain has all of that too. It may have been in the past that spains national sport of tax evasion was almost acceptable and easy. but they are cracking down, they are making it difficult - spain has a huge debt to pay off - much bigger than the UK, so its gonna cost its residents - including expats - so no, you cant come to Spain and do bits and pieces of work when you need money and spend the rest of the time by the pool - even the young, free and single cant. Lets face it, what do us Brits think of "foreigners" who go to the UK, work but dont pay taxes??? 

Jo xxx


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## NickZ

jojo said:


> spain has a huge debt to pay off - much bigger than the UK,


FT Alphaville » The great UK debt reveal

If the UK used the same math that Spain does the UK would look worse then Greece


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## jojo

NickZ said:


> FT Alphaville » The great UK debt reveal
> 
> If the UK used the same math that Spain does the UK would look worse then Greece


 Yes but the UK has a working structure in place to pay it off

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> Yes but the UK has a working structure in place to pay it off
> 
> Jo xxx


When the UK needs money, it just prints some more. It's called "quantitative easing".

Euro countries can't do that.


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> When the UK needs money, it just prints some more. It's called "quantitative easing".
> 
> Euro countries can't do that.


 True! 

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> Lets face it, what do us Brits think of "foreigners" who go to the UK, work but dont pay taxes???
> 
> Jo xxx


To be fair, there are employers in the UK who hire immigrant workers on the black, pay them less than the minimum wage, make them work ridiculously long hours, and don't pay their NI contributions. It isn't a uniquely Spanish thing and it certainly isn't always the employee's fault.


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## mrypg9

Sarajanexx said:


> The owner had told us he was paying our tax ect.. It was only after yesterday we found he hadn't been, There are a lot of jobs in the area I live in and i know many many people that have contract work also, didn't mean to be misleading


And you didn't check your payslip?????


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## mrypg9

NickZ said:


> May be head to Costa del Sol?


Could I ask the point of that comment?


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> To be fair, there are employers in the UK who hire immigrant workers on the black, pay them less than the minimum wage, make them work ridiculously long hours, and don't pay their NI contributions. It isn't a uniquely Spanish thing and it certainly isn't always the employee's fault.


It isn't uniquely a Spanish thing - agreed. It isn't always the employee's fault - agreed, but that a British employee in Spain or a Spanish employee in the UK can think that it's not illegal to be paid off the books? That is more difficult to comprehend. What I mean is if it was someone from a different culture like Africa for example may be that level of misunderstanding might be feasible, but between 2 coountries like Spain and the UK?


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## jojo

Lets also not forget that as an illegal worker, should she have needed hospital treatment, she wouldnt have been covered - legally. 

I hope Sara sticks around to keep us updated, altho scary for her, its interesting how this will pan out

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

Look at the situation coolly and objectively: others could learn from it.

Naive, perhaps inexperienced young person comes to Spain looking for work and a good time.
Ignores all warnings from long-time residents about working on the black.
Gets a 'lovely' job, tells other wannabe immigrants to ignore 'negativity', says all you need to succeed is a pair of balls...I quote,..
Works illegally, gets caught, gets fined.
Realises Spain is not the Wild West or some backward banana republic, learns to listen to sensible, well-meaning advice.
Posts story as lesson to others.

Some good may come from this.....


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## Solwriter

Lets forget for the moment that the OP originally came on this forum talking about her job and appears not to have noticed that she wasn't on a contract....

She actually asked a valid question.
Should she do a runner or wait for the consequences.

So let's look at the practicalities here:
From what she has said, the bar owner told the SS that the OP and another worker were on trial, so, if he gets his act together quickly and sorts out taking her on with a contract, then he will be proving this (if in hindsight...).

However, he is much more likely to tell her not to come in again and leave her to face the consequences. This way he can still say she was on trial, but not suitable for the job.

(and if he doesn't choose either of those courses of action, the guy is a fool who she really shouldn't be working for anyway).

The OP is (I am assuming) young, free and single, with no ties to Spain other than the friends she has made here.
In her situation, if the employer doesn't offer her contracted work, I know what I would be doing.

She may eventually have to face the monetary consequences, but why not face them in the UK where she will at least have access to English-speaking help.


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## jojo

Solwriter said:


> So let's look at the practicalities here:
> From what she has said, the bar owner told the SS that the OP and another worker were on trial, so, if he gets his act together quickly and sorts out taking her on with a contract, then he will be proving this (if in hindsight...).


 She'd need to have an SS number to be able to have a contract and if she hasnt, they're not easy to simply get - Also the need for residencia - altho maybe she arrived just before the need to prove income and healthcare. Her employer has more to lose than she does and will therefore, simply drop her and her colleague in it to save himself and his livelyhood

One things for sure, hopefully she has seen that us "negatives" on the forum are trying to prevent this sort of thing from happening to others, especially families with commitments. Its not about "having the balls" its about careful planning and knowledge!!

jo xxx


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## mrypg9

Solwriter said:


> Lets forget for the moment that the OP originally came on this forum talking about her job and appears not to have noticed that she wasn't on a contract....
> 
> She actually asked a valid question.
> Should she do a runner or wait for the consequences.
> 
> So let's look at the practicalities here:
> From what she has said, the bar owner told the SS that the OP and another worker were on trial, so, if he gets his act together quickly and sorts out taking her on with a contract, then he will be proving this (if in hindsight...).
> 
> However, he is much more likely to tell her not to come in again and leave her to face the consequences. This way he can still say she was on trial, but not suitable for the job.
> 
> (and if he doesn't choose either of those courses of action, the guy is a fool who she really shouldn't be working for anyway).
> 
> The OP is (I am assuming) young, free and single, with no ties to Spain other than the friends she has made here.
> In her situation, if the employer doesn't offer her contracted work, I know what I would be doing.
> 
> She may eventually have to face the monetary consequences, but why not face them in the UK where she will at least have access to English-speaking help.


All of which is very true....but how does it reflect on British immigrants?

Illegal work is just that...illegal. Wouldn't you have asked for a contract, whether temporary or permanent? Wouldn't you have asked for a payslip?
If you're old enough to come to work in Spain, surely you're old enough to think about the consequences of your actions?
And not to give advice to others when you really haven't a clue yourself??


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## xabiaxica

Solwriter said:


> Lets forget for the moment that the OP originally came on this forum talking about her job and appears not to have noticed that she wasn't on a contract....
> 
> She actually asked a valid question.
> Should she do a runner or wait for the consequences.
> 
> So let's look at the practicalities here:
> From what she has said, the bar owner told the SS that the OP and another worker were on trial, so, if he gets his act together quickly and sorts out taking her on with a contract, then he will be proving this (if in hindsight...).
> 
> However, he is much more likely to tell her not to come in again and leave her to face the consequences. This way he can still say she was on trial, but not suitable for the job.
> 
> (and if he doesn't choose either of those courses of action, the guy is a fool who she really shouldn't be working for anyway).
> 
> The OP is (I am assuming) young, free and single, with no ties to Spain other than the friends she has made here.
> In her situation, if the employer doesn't offer her contracted work, I know what I would be doing.
> 
> She may eventually have to face the monetary consequences, but why not face them in the UK where she will at least have access to English-speaking help.


sadly, she knew she (and everyone who worked there) didn't have a contract - & asked us about it - we told her it was almost certainly an illegal situation - I don't know if she read the replies

it's possible that the restaurant owner did give the SS her NIE - maybe he didn't, but as you say, that's almost certainly the end of the job no matter what - either way, they were, as she says, probably watching the place & know it was a lie

yes, she can 'do one' - I probably would too if I was her & in panic mode, as she must be

& if she 'gets away with it' then I hope she learns from it & realises that we were only trying to help her when we gave her the advice she didn't want to hear - & that others might learn from it even if she doesn't


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Lets also not forget that as an illegal worker, should she have needed hospital treatment, she wouldnt have been covered - legally.
> 
> I hope Sara sticks around to keep us updated, altho scary for her, its interesting how this will pan out
> 
> Jo xxx


and if the owner was cutting corners on this - then on what else

public liability insurance maybe? what if she'd had an accident at work?


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## Solwriter

jojo said:


> She'd need to have an SS number to be able to have a contract and if she hasnt, they're not easy to simply get - Also the need for residencia - altho maybe she arrived just before the need to prove income and healthcare. Her employer has more to lose than she does and will therefore, simply drop her and her colleague in it to save himself and his livelyhood
> 
> jo xxx


I agree. And I don't think her employer will think of her at all.
I was just looking at possible options here.
She arrived in May, so after the April changes.
As I said, if it was me I would be going back to the UK and if, by some chance, the Spanish authorities did take this cross channel, at least I would be able to get some help there on how to pay the fine.


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## Solwriter

mrypg9 said:


> All of which is very true....but how does it reflect on British immigrants?
> 
> Illegal work is just that...illegal. Wouldn't you have asked for a contract, whether temporary or permanent? Wouldn't you have asked for a payslip?
> If you're old enough to come to work in Spain, surely you're old enough to think about the consequences of your actions?
> And not to give advice to others when you really haven't a clue yourself??


Yes, I agree with all this too.
But lets face reality here.
Many workers, especially in coastal areas, are going to find themselves in the same boat over the coming months.
People on this forum have worked illegally in the past, even though they may be legal now.
So yes, the OP made a mistake and then came on the forum talking about her work and telling others that there were jobs available.
But lets not rub any more salt in the wound.

She came here asking for help.


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## fergie

What would be the situation, if a south american- long term resident of Spain, does 3 hours cleaning for me a week? her children have been educated at Spanish schools, does she pay Spanish tax automatically?
Would she be registered as self employed? She doesn't speak much English, and as yet my Spanish, although improving!, is not sufficient to ask her in depth if she is legal, she charges 11 euros per hour, and works for my next door neighbour for 3-4 hours as well, plus some of my NDN's friends, and is always asking for more people to work for, although I have not recommended her, as non of our friends here require a cleaner.
I know her husband has been unemployed for quite a while, so she is the main 'breadwinner' in the family, if she is not registered for tax, who would be responsible for the 3 hours she works for us?
I don't want to employ anybody illegally.


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## jojo

fergie said:


> What would be the situation, if a south american- long term resident of Spain, does 3 hours cleaning for me a week? her children have been educated at Spanish schools, does she pay Spanish tax automatically?
> Would she be registered as self employed? She doesn't speak much English, and as yet my Spanish, although improving!, is not sufficient to ask her in depth if she is legal, she charges 11 euros per hour, and works for my next door neighbour for 3-4 hours as well, plus some of my NDN's friends, and is always asking for more people to work for, although I have not recommended her, as non of our friends here require a cleaner.
> I know her husband has been unemployed for quite a while, so she is the main 'breadwinner' in the family, if she is not registered for tax, who would be responsible for the 3 hours she works for us?
> I don't want to employ anybody illegally.


 I would say that unless she's autonomo, then she's working illegally, I'm sure there must be a minimum amount of hours whereby it doesnt count, but if she's doing several jobs as a professional cleaner..................???

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> It isn't uniquely a Spanish thing - agreed. It isn't always the employee's fault - agreed, but that a British employee in Spain or a Spanish employee in the UK can think that it's not illegal to be paid off the books? That is more difficult to comprehend. What I mean is if it was someone from a different culture like Africa for example may be that level of misunderstanding might be feasible, but between 2 coountries like Spain and the UK?


Well, when you are desperate for a job are you going to ask to see the books?


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## xabiaxica

fergie said:


> What would be the situation, if a south american- long term resident of Spain, does 3 hours cleaning for me a week? her children have been educated at Spanish schools, does she pay Spanish tax automatically?
> Would she be registered as self employed? She doesn't speak much English, and as yet my Spanish, although improving!, is not sufficient to ask her in depth if she is legal, she charges 11 euros per hour, and works for my next door neighbour for 3-4 hours as well, plus some of my NDN's friends, and is always asking for more people to work for, although I have not recommended her, as non of our friends here require a cleaner.
> I know her husband has been unemployed for quite a while, so she is the main 'breadwinner' in the family, if she is not registered for tax, who would be responsible for the 3 hours she works for us?
> I don't want to employ anybody illegally.


if she is doing odd jobs here & there, not on a regular basis, then there's some lower limit below which (I think)* you don't have to pay NI & tax, but you do (I think)* have to declare it

if she's only working for you, then all well & good - but it's entirely possible that she's doing the equivalent of full time hours between many clients 

or if SHE isn't - I guarantee you that there are many like her who ARE.......... & therefore yes, they are working illegally if not declaring 

* when I can get hold of my gestor I'll ask him to clarify - but he seems to be on his hols........... 

the figure I have heard is around 600€ a month -( but ad hoc, not regular earnings, I don't know if it counts if you have regular clients) - just between you & your neighbour she's pretty much halfway there............


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## mrypg9

Solwriter said:


> Yes, I agree with all this too.
> But lets face reality here.
> Many workers, especially in coastal areas, are going to find themselves in the same boat over the coming months.
> People on this forum have worked illegally in the past, even though they may be legal now.
> So yes, the OP made a mistake and then came on the forum talking about her work and telling others that there were jobs available.
> But lets not rub any more salt in the wound.
> *
> 
> 
> She came here asking for help*.


Which, as PW pointed out, she then ignored.


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## Solwriter

mrypg9 said:


> Which, as PW pointed out, she then ignored.


Yes, you are correct. She did.

But I wonder how many others are reading this thread who may be in a similar position right now?


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Well, when you are desperate for a job are you going to ask to see the books?


Is a recent immigrant from the UK to Spain really likely to be that desperate for a job, though? There are more jobs in the UK after all if you are desperate for work.

I would most certainly ask for a contract or something legally acceptable in writing stating hourly rate, number of hours to be worked and so on before accepting any job, especially in a country in such a dire state as Spain.

Unions worked and lobbied hard to get these conditions for all workers. This kind of casualisation isn't acceptable. It ultimately benefits no-one but the unscrupulous employer.


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## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Is a recent immigrant from the UK to Spain really likely to be that desperate for a job, though? There are more jobs in the UK after all if you are desperate for work.
> 
> I would most certainly ask for a contract or something legally acceptable in writing stating hourly rate, number of hours to be worked and so on before accepting any job, especially in a country in such a dire state as Spain.
> 
> Unions worked and lobbied hard to get these conditions for all workers. This kind of casualisation isn't acceptable. It ultimately benefits no-one but the unscrupulous employer.


Sorry, I thought we were talking generally rather than about recent immigrants from the UK to Spain. 

In theory you are right, of course. But in practice, if you are out of work for whatever reason and you have rent to pay or else you will be out on the street, you don't have the luxury of worrying about such niceties as contracts and conditions. If someone offers you cash in hand you take it.


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry, I thought we were talking generally rather than about recent immigrants from the UK to Spain.
> 
> In theory you are right, of course. But in practice, if you are out of work for whatever reason and you have rent to pay or else you will be out on the street, you don't have the luxury of worrying about such niceties as contracts and conditions. If someone offers you cash in hand you take it.


All that is true. I've changed my mind about the long-term unemployed working casually for cash-in-hand because as PW I think it was -or maybe you - pointed out it's a safety valve...and a necessary means of survival.

But I still don't think it applies to young immigrants who are more than likely here to enjoy the sun and earn a bit on the side. They actually make it worse for the unemployed to find decently-paid work.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> All that is true. I've changed my mind about the long-term unemployed working casually for cash-in-hand because as PW I think it was -or maybe you - pointed out it's a safety valve...and a necessary means of survival.
> 
> But I still don't think it applies to young immigrants who are more than likely here to enjoy the sun and earn a bit on the side. They actually make it worse for the unemployed to find decently-paid work.


yes I agree - for the long term unemployed do odd bits here & there just to put food on the table it's one thing

for those who work essentially full hours & have a decent regualr income it's another thing entirely & they should declare

for those coming from a country where they could get _legal _work probably more easily that they can here, it's yet another............


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## brocher

I notice from an earlier post, Sara, that you only have a 3 month NIE - so I assume that will expire very soon.

I guess you will have no chance of renewing it, given the authorities may well have details of your illegal working, and you aren't in a position to meet the new residency requirements.

Tend to think you should actually "do one" back to the UK at the earliest opportunity - certainly before that NI expires and you become even more illegal.


----------



## Alcalaina

I was half-listening to Radio 4 this morning when they were talking about paying tradesmen in cash to avoid VAT (some MP had just said it's immoral, I believe). What made my ears prick up was that the UK has the seventh biggest black economy in the world! Then someone said it wasn't such a bad thing in a recession because it helps get cash flowing round the economy.

Not a view I'd heard before! Did anyone else hear it?


----------



## brocher

Alcalaina said:


> I was half-listening to Radio 4 this morning when they were talking about paying tradesmen in cash to avoid VAT (some MP had just said it's immoral, I believe). What made my ears prick up was that the UK has the seventh biggest black economy in the world! Then someone said it wasn't such a bad thing in a recession because it helps get cash flowing round the economy.
> 
> Not a view I'd heard before! Did anyone else hear it?




The papers here are full of it today. 

While, of course, it is a completely illegal practise - never mind immoral - I don't think "the country" really wants to hear it right now. It really doesn't sit right so soon after we've listened to all the tales of politicians' expenses, bankers bonuses, tax avoidance schemes, etc. Time we sorted out the "big boys" in this country.


----------



## Tilley

Don't know if the OP is still reading even if she isn't posting, but her own advice was the best advice tbh ie to 'do one', maybe to the costa del sol as someone suggested where she will be one of lots I should think.

Many people work in the UK like this and even the UK with all the technology and systems in place has problems cracking down on illegals working on the black.

I do some work in this area and people are mainly caught here when to use another phrase that I am sure the more educated of you wont understand  'others dob em in it'

We have phone lines where you can report both income tax evaders & benefit fraudsters and people use them. Its often due to a domestic ie if a you have bragged about it to a friend/partner & then to relationship goes sour. Careless talk and all that.

I would think the chances of the Spanish authorities catching up with her are a big fat zero if she does one. Sounds like the place is full of waitresses & waiters working on the black economy, the employer is more at fault than the employee, but will I guess get the bigger fine as here, but then of course an employer has nowhere to run, unless they do a moonlight and cut their loses.


----------



## jojo

Tilley said:


> Don't know if the OP is still reading even if she isn't posting, but her own advice was the best advice tbh ie to 'do one', maybe to the costa del sol as someone suggested where she will be one of lots I should think.


 I think that comment was a "tongue in cheek" comment. Because in the olden days (60s, 70s..), British criminals used to go to the costa del sol to hide as there was no agreement to have them extradited.

IMO, its one thing doing a bit of work on the side and getting paid cash (in any country), but its not right that someones full time income should come from a full time illegal job - and it really isnt right to then suggest that there is lots of work in Spain and to ignore the negative comments made 

Jo xx


----------



## Tilley

Oh apologies I didnt realise that.


----------



## jojo

Tilley said:


> Oh apologies I didnt realise that.



no worries, maybe you, unlike us old gits are too young to remember lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Well, when you are desperate for a job are you going to ask to see the books?


¿¿¿???

Personally no, I wouldn't ask to see the books. I didn't say anything about *seeing *the books - I said _*get paid off the books*_ meaning not having a contract, meaning that if you haven't signed a contract you surely know that you're not on contract meaning that you're being _*paid off the books*_Isn't that expression right?


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## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> yes, she can 'do one' - I probably would too if I was her & in panic mode, as she must be
> 
> & if she 'gets away with it' then I hope she learns from it & realises that we were only trying to help her when we gave her the advice she didn't want to hear - & that others might learn from it even if she doesn't


As saraJane isn't posting atm we can only speculate abut how she feels. Do you think she's in panic mode? I don't think she is at all. I wouldn't be surprised is she posts that she's found another job in the bar next door and is even happier - but that's just me speculating of course...


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## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> yes, she can 'do one' - I probably would too if I was her & in panic mode, as she must be
> 
> & if she 'gets away with it' then I hope she learns from it & realises that we were only trying to help her when we gave her the advice she didn't want to hear - & that others might learn from it even if she doesn't


As the OPisn't posting atm we can only speculate about how she feels. Do you think she's in panic mode? I don't think she is at all. I wouldn't be surprised is she posts that she's found another job in the bar next door and is even happier - but that's just me speculating of course...


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## Guest

Alcalaina said:


> I was half-listening to Radio 4 this morning when they were talking about paying tradesmen in cash to avoid VAT (some MP had just said it's immoral, I believe). What made my ears prick up was that the UK has the seventh biggest black economy in the world! Then someone said it wasn't such a bad thing in a recession because it helps get cash flowing round the economy.
> 
> Not a view I'd heard before! Did anyone else hear it?


I seem to recall pointing that a few times over the past couple months and had the usual suspects respond with something along the lines of "I don`t believe it, therefore it it isn`t true". 

Glad to see I was vindicated!


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## Pesky Wesky

fergie said:


> What would be the situation, if a south american- long term resident of Spain, does 3 hours cleaning for me a week? her children have been educated at Spanish schools, does she pay Spanish tax automatically?
> Would she be registered as self employed? She doesn't speak much English, and as yet my Spanish, although improving!, is not sufficient to ask her in depth if she is legal, she charges 11 euros per hour, and works for my next door neighbour for 3-4 hours as well, plus some of my NDN's friends, and is always asking for more people to work for, although I have not recommended her, as non of our friends here require a cleaner.
> I know her husband has been unemployed for quite a while, so she is the main 'breadwinner' in the family, if she is not registered for tax, who would be responsible for the 3 hours she works for us?
> I don't want to employ anybody illegally.


There's, surprise surprise, a recent law about this - isn't there about everything? I _think_they are suppose to be signed on for ss with every employer they have, but there are some special circumstances. Of course this is not very popular with many employees 'cos some employers will reduce their take home pay in order to compensate what they're paying in ss, but best to go to the ss offices to ask what's what


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## Pesky Wesky

Yossa said:


> I seem to recall pointing that a few times over the past couple months and had the usual suspects respond with something along the lines of "I don`t believe it, therefore it it isn`t true".
> 
> Glad to see I was vindicated!


I've always thought it was rife in the UK especially in the same areas as it is in Spain - odd jobs around the house, a bit of plumbing, a bit of decorating, a couple of hours of cleaning... But perhaps not in the same volume as Spain, but there nontheless.


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## brocher

Pesky Wesky said:


> As saraJane isn't posting atm we can only speculate abut how she feels. Do you think she's in panic mode? I don't think she is at all. I wouldn't be surprised is she posts that she's found another job in the bar next door and is even happier - but that's just me speculating of course...



...just you speculating of course 

The job situation is bad enough, but with a 3 month NI just about to expire, I'd be thinking very seriously about my next move....to the UK....if I were the OP. I've never really fancied being invited into the little side room at airport security.


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## jimenato

I thought the NIE lasted for ever. :confused2:


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## agua642

Your NIE number stays with you for life.


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## Guest

brocher said:


> ...just you speculating of course
> 
> The job situation is bad enough, but with a 3 month NI just about to expire, I'd be thinking very seriously about my next move....to the UK....if I were the OP. I've never really fancied being invited into the little side room at airport security.


Let`s face it, she isn`t going to get a good kicking in a side room from some heavies at the airport, for the sake of a few hundred euros in tax. It doesn`t work that way as it is a _civil_ offence and not a _criminal_ offence - there is a subtle, yet distinct difference. Tax evasion (this is not tax avoidance, again a subtle yet important difference) only becomes a criminal offence in Spain when the amount owed is over 120,000€. Up until then it is a civil offence and thus is not something she can be pulled for at the airport here. However, I`m no expert, so check for yourself... 

Sure, she`s been a bit naive and been a tad arsey about it, but let`s not turn her into a gibbering wreck and stick the frighteners on her.


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## Tilley

Yossa said:


> Let`s face it, she isn`t going to get a good kicking in a side room from some heavies at the airport, for the sake of a few hundred euros in tax. It doesn`t work that way as it is a _civil_ offence and not a _criminal_ offence - there is a subtle, yet distinct difference. Tax evasion (this is not tax avoidance, again a subtle yet important difference) only becomes a criminal offence in Spain when the amount owed is over 120,000€. Up until then it is a civil offence and thus is not something she can be pulled for at the airport here. However, I`m no expert, so check for yourself...
> 
> Sure, she`s been a bit naive and been a tad arsey about it, but let`s not turn her into a gibbering wreck and stick the frighteners on her.


Great post and so true. not sure why some on here want to scare the living daylights out of people. 

If she just moves on to another job she wont even have to go through the airport. 

She probably hasn't even earn't enough to break through the tax free threshold anyway. Having worked for many gov departments over the years if a debt is for example under £500 and it would cost 10K in admin and management to chase it, they are normally written off as dead money. Even in a Country as broke as you all say Spain is they are hardly likely to chase her for something like this, so talk of armed guards at an airport is pure scaremongering tactics by people who must have some othere bizzare kind of agenda. I just hope she is still reading even though she may be too terrified to post.


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## xabiaxica

Tilley said:


> Great post and so true. not sure why some on here want to scare the living daylights out of people.
> 
> If she just moves on to another job she wont even have to go through the airport.
> 
> She probably hasn't even earn't enough to break through the tax free threshold anyway. Having worked for many gov departments over the years if a debt is for example under £500 and it would cost 10K in admin and management to chase it, they are normally written off as dead money. Even in a Country as broke as you all say Spain is they are hardly likely to chase her for something like this, so talk of armed guards at an airport is pure scaremongering tactics by people who must have some othere bizzare kind of agenda. I just hope she is still reading even though she may be too terrified to post.



yes, being hauled off at the airport is a bit OTT - but I'm pretty sure it was a tongue in cheek comment & Yossa has made it clear that it wouldn't happen

if 'we' had an agenda 'we' would have deleted Yossa's comments.........

it's not tax though, it's NI contributions which are payable from day 1 - and no, probably not a huge amount of money in the scheme of things............

but if she moves onto another job, the fact remains that her name (if not her NIE number) has now been flagged

if she continues to work illegally that will make matters worse - if SS were indeed watching the bar then she could easily be spotted & then the next place she works at checked on - & why anyone would choose to live like that is beyond me 

if she gets a legal, contracted job, or registers as autónomo, then the computer will flag her as owing money - which as I said before she will have to pay - plus a fine - and on what they decide she would have earned - which could be a heck of a lot more than she actually did!

so not scary criminal, but certainly expensive



& yes, they are chasing people up

someone I know had a visit fom the Guardia Civil the other evening - a less criminal, straight down the line honest person you could never meet

but due to some bad/incomplete advice from a gestor, she & her partner, although having lived here for several years, have always paid non-res tax & have a non-res bank account

they had NIE numbers - but only recently registered as resident for some reason or other (they genuinely didn't know until now that they had to - again, bad advice from the gestor & she doesn't 'do' forums)

them registering flagged something up

the Guardia were at the their house wanting to see all sorts of paperwork & wanting to know why they had only just registered as resident when they had clearly lived here for years

the daft thing is........... if they HAD been registered all this time, the tax & bank charges they have paid over the years would be far less

so it's not all about the money


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## xabiaxica

jimenato said:


> I thought the NIE lasted for ever. :confused2:





agua642 said:


> Your NIE number stays with you for life.


yes, the number does

but for some months now they have been issuing NIE certs with an expiry date on them - so the actual cert is no good after 3 months

after which time you are supposed to get a new one, & presumably if you're still here after 3 months they make you register as resident


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## jojo

Yossa said:


> Sure, she`s been a bit naive and been a tad arsey about it, but let`s not turn her into a gibbering wreck and stick the frighteners on her.


Yes, I agree with that! I just hope she lets us know what happens next

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

jojo said:


> Yes, I agree with that! I just hope she lets us know what happens next
> 
> Jo xxx


Do they give you access to the net in Alhaurin jail?


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## Pesky Wesky

Tilley said:


> Great post and so true. not sure why some on here want to scare the living daylights out of people.
> 
> If she just moves on to another job she wont even have to go through the airport.
> 
> She probably hasn't even earn't enough to break through the tax free threshold anyway. Having worked for many gov departments over the years if a debt is for example under £500 and it would cost 10K in admin and management to chase it, they are normally written off as dead money. Even in a Country as broke as you all say Spain is they are hardly likely to chase her for something like this, so talk of armed guards at an airport is pure scaremongering tactics by people who must have some othere bizzare kind of agenda. I just hope she is still reading even though she may be too terrified to post.


I don't have any hidden agenda.
Sarajane has


> been a bit naive and been a tad arsey about it


Yossa, you have such a way with words at times!!

My gripe with her is her attitude towards the forum and the advice she was given. She told other people reading the forum that all you need to come to Spain is balls, to ignore the advice that she's been given - and then on top of that she came back for more advice! (This is when the Spanish slap the side of their face and say _que es una caradura_)
That she got herself an illegal job and has diddled the authorities out of some money is IMO silly, immature and irresponsible, but hey we (hopefully) learn by our mistakes. I wonder if she has?????

PS They probably won't "chase her up" for this, but it may well get catch up with her, sooner or later


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## mrypg9

Tilley said:


> . Even in a Country as broke as you all say Spain is


The IMF, EU and global markets seem to share our view that Spain is broke and may even need a massive bail-out so with the greatest of respect...don't you think we may be right?


Incidentally, if this had happened in the UK and the OP had been of a dusky hue she'd most likely have been named and shamed in the Daily Mail.


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## jojo

Tilley said:


> Great post and so true. not sure why some on here want to scare the living daylights out of people.
> 
> If she just moves on to another job she wont even have to go through the airport.
> 
> She probably hasn't even earn't enough to break through the tax free threshold anyway. Having worked for many gov departments over the years if a debt is for example under £500 and it would cost 10K in admin and management to chase it, they are normally written off as dead money. Even in a Country as broke as you all say Spain is they are hardly likely to chase her for something like this, so talk of armed guards at an airport is pure scaremongering tactics by people who must have some othere bizzare kind of agenda. I just hope she is still reading even though she may be too terrified to post.



Its possible that if the authorities have gone to the trouble of visiting employers, restaurants etc, then they KNOW there's a problem and will possibly make examples of their "successes" to justify their trouble. 

One thing for sure, its best not to assume that any of us know what will happen. Never preempt what the Spanish authorities will or wont do - especially those of us who dont live there. 

As for moving on and finding another job????? WITH A CONTRACT?????? hhhhmmm, not easy! and as word spreads, I guess many bars and restaurants in the area *wont* be employing "cash in hand" employees

Jo xxx


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## jimenato

xabiachica said:


> yes, the number does
> 
> but for some months now they have been issuing NIE certs with an expiry date on them - so the actual cert is no good after 3 months
> 
> after which time you are supposed to get a new one, & presumably if you're still here after 3 months they make you register as resident


OK, and if you don't qualify for residency after 3 months?


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## jimenato

jojo said:


> I guess many bars and restaurants in the area *wont* be employing "cash in hand" employees
> 
> Jo xxx


I that case, believe me, they won't be employing anybody.


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## jojo

jimenato said:


> I that case, believe me, they won't be employing anybody.


Yes, and that brings on other worrying issues - closures, unemployment, price increases......

Jo xxx


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## jojo

jimenato said:


> OK, and if you don't qualify for residency after 3 months?


You go back to where you came from, or live illegally, with little access to anything

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> ¿¿¿???
> 
> Personally no, I wouldn't ask to see the books. I didn't say anything about *seeing *the books - I said _*get paid off the books*_ meaning not having a contract, meaning that if you haven't signed a contract you surely know that you're not on contract meaning that you're being _*paid off the books*_Isn't that expression right?


Oh, sorry. I don't know what the expression is, I just meant that in certain circumstances you aren't going to enquire too deeply about whether your employment is legal or not.


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## lindylou2345

Sarajanexx said:


> Today while at work the SS came into the Restraunt I work in nobody has contacts and I was just wondering what will happen as the owner gave them my name nie number ect but I'm only working for cash.


It wont be you that is in trouble it will be the bar owner for not putting you on a contract he can pay the minimum one for 4 hours work

Lindy Lou


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## xabiaxica

lindylou2345 said:


> It wont be you that is in trouble it will be the bar owner for not putting you on a contract he can pay the minimum one for 4 hours work
> 
> Lindy Lou


can you explain??

please?


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## lindylou2345

xabiachica said:


> can you explain??
> 
> please?


When employing someone in Spain it is the employers obligation to put you first on a temporary contarct 3 months, then if you work out 6 months then an indefinido OR make sure you have your self employed papers for him to check

Lindy lou


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## xabiaxica

lindylou2345 said:


> When employing someone in Spain it is the employers obligation to put you first on a temporary contarct 3 months, then if you work out 6 months then an indefinido OR make sure you have your self employed papers for him to check
> 
> Lindy lou


yes, that I know

it was the 'minimum one for 4 hours' bit I don't understand

she was working a lot more than 4 hours...........


yes, a contract would be the ideal, but...............

the staff themselves _knew_ they weren't on contract - so something a bit 'dodgy' was going on, unless the boss had told them they had to register as autónomo

some of them had been there a loooong time going by the OP's previous threads - so must have known how things work here, even if the OP didn't

so in your opinion - should the workers have signed on as autónomo - or just continued to work 'black' & keep everything crossed?


----------



## jojo

lindylou2345 said:


> When employing someone in Spain it is the employers obligation to put you first on a temporary contarct 3 months, then if you work out 6 months then an indefinido OR make sure you have your self employed papers for him to check
> 
> Lindy lou


 Thats the rub, the employer has to pay to have staff on contract 

If he hasnt then he's in trouble and due to pay a fair bit of back pay. However, if he says that he assumed that his staff were autonomo, then he shifts the blame????

jo xxx


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## leedsutdgem

lindylou2345 said:


> It wont be you that is in trouble it will be the bar owner for not putting you on a contract he can pay the minimum one for 4 hours work
> 
> Lindy Lou


Another problem with this country! Employers putting staff on 4 hour contracts and then they work often 8 hours or more.


----------



## brocher

Yossa said:


> Let`s face it, she isn`t going to get a good kicking in a side room from some heavies at the airport, for the sake of a few hundred euros in tax. It doesn`t work that way as it is a _civil_ offence and not a _criminal_ offence - there is a subtle, yet distinct difference. Tax evasion (this is not tax avoidance, again a subtle yet important difference) only becomes a criminal offence in Spain when the amount owed is over 120,000€. Up until then it is a civil offence and thus is not something she can be pulled for at the airport here. However, I`m no expert, so check for yourself...
> 
> Sure, she`s been a bit naive and been a tad arsey about it, but let`s not turn her into a gibbering wreck and stick the frighteners on her.



Well, I never said she would face a "good kicking" - who's putting the frighteners on??

But, she did say back in May, that she only had a 3 month NI. so that will be about to expire. Presumably she is not going to be in a position to meet the new residency requirements. I agree she is unlikely to be pursued for her arrears and fine if she returns to the UK (although Spain may well start to make an example of foreigners who don't tow the line), thus I would think it, possibly, a very good idea to consider returning before her affairs become any more difficult.


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## Guest

brocher said:


> Well, I never said she would face a "good kicking" - who's putting the frighteners on??
> 
> But, she did say back in May, that she only had a 3 month NI. so that will be about to expire. Presumably she is not going to be in a position to meet the new residency requirements. I agree she is unlikely to be pursued for her arrears and fine if she returns to the UK (although Spain may well start to make an example of foreigners who don't tow the line), thus I would think it, possibly, a very good idea to consider returning before her affairs become any more difficult.


Poetic licence on my part. I have an odd way with words, well, actually I`m just odd...


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## brocher

Yossa said:


> Poetic licence on my part. I have an odd way with words, well, actually I`m just odd...



OP had a bit of an odd way with words too, which rightly or wrongly, maybe influenced the tone of some of our replies.


----------



## anles

jojo said:


> Thats the rub, the employer has to pay to have staff on contract
> 
> If he hasnt then he's in trouble and due to pay a fair bit of back pay. However, if he says that he assumed that his staff were autonomo, then he shifts the blame????
> 
> jo xxx


If they were autónomo, they would have to be billing him. Besides which, autónomos can't do business exclusively with one employer, so I don't think that would wash as an excuse. Employers pay their employees tax so even if they haven't, the authorities don't come after the employee for the money, however if they aren't paying it (something which stangely you can't find out) it affects you in that your contributions aren't up to date which means less contributions towards a pension and affects your unemployment benefit. It is not obligatory to make temporary contracts into "indefinido" before one year though, which was to be extended to two years with the new labour reform.


----------



## xabiaxica

anles said:


> If they were autónomo, they would have to be billing him. Besides which, autónomos can't do business exclusively with one employer, so I don't think that would wash as an excuse. Employers pay their employees tax so even if they haven't, the authorities don't come after the employee for the money, however if they aren't paying it (something which stangely you can't find out) it affects you in that your contributions aren't up to date which means less contributions towards a pension and affects your unemployment benefit. It is not obligatory to make temporary contracts into "indefinido" before one year though, which was to be extended to two years with the new labour reform.


yes, they should be billing him if autónomo - but none of my students actually want the bills I produce every month, although clearly a restaurant owner should

& he only has to claim that he thought they were working elsewhere as well as for him - & to be fair, lots of waitresses/bar staff DO do some shifts in one place & some in another

it's all a very common mess, really - he'll blame the staff - they'll blame him......... if anything even comes of it


the points about pension, benefits (and indeed healthcare) were all things the OP was made aware of by us when she told us about the job in the first place


----------



## lindylou2345

xabiachica said:


> yes, that I know
> 
> it was the 'minimum one for 4 hours' bit I don't understand
> 
> she was working a lot more than 4 hours...........
> 
> 
> yes, a contract would be the ideal, but...............
> 
> the staff themselves _knew_ they weren't on contract - so something a bit 'dodgy' was going on, unless the boss had told them they had to register as autónomo
> 
> some of them had been there a loooong time going by the OP's previous threads - so must have known how things work here, even if the OP didn't
> 
> so in your opinion - should the workers have signed on as autónomo - or just continued to work 'black' & keep everything crossed?


The 4 hours thing is a cheaper way of the boss putting someone on contract he pays less, but everyone works more than 4 hours per day, but if there is an inspection he would have his workers on contract and usually they are happy with this, but as you lknow a lot of people work black and it is usually the boss that gets the fine

Lindy lou


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## jojo

lindylou2345 said:


> The 4 hours thing is a cheaper way of the boss putting someone on contract he pays less, but everyone works more than 4 hours per day, but if there is an inspection he would have his workers on contract and usually they are happy with this, but as you lknow a lot of people work black and it is usually the boss that gets the fine
> 
> Lindy lou


 But a boss still has to pay to employ people legally - even for 4 hours and then he has to pay if/when he lays them off???? OK, not as much as a "full timer", but nonetheless.............

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

lindylou2345 said:


> The 4 hours thing is a cheaper way of the boss putting someone on contract he pays less, but everyone works more than 4 hours per day, but if there is an inspection he would have his workers on contract and usually they are happy with this, but as you lknow a lot of people work black and it is usually the boss that gets the fine
> 
> Lindy lou


yes, usually the boss would - & IMO _should_

my posts about fines & paying back tax & ins though, come from knowing someone who was working autónomo & stopped working

I don't know whether he didn't know that he had to _baja_, or whether he or his gestor forgot to do it - but he left the country & there was nothing in his bank account so the monthly payments simply weren't paid

when he later returned to Spain & got a contracted job he was flagged as having not paid his autónomo - several 1000s of euros by then - they wanted everything they were 'owed' & also fined him

it did eventually get sorted out because he was able to prove that he had left the country - but it took quite some time

the OP of course, wouldn't be able to do that


----------



## lindylou2345

jojo said:


> Thats the rub, the employer has to pay to have staff on contract
> 
> If he hasnt then he's in trouble and due to pay a fair bit of back pay. However, if he says that he assumed that his staff were autonomo, then he shifts the blame????
> 
> jo xxx


The employer is still in trouble as he should have asked to see papers, health card etc

Lindy lou

Toatally diferent subject I am trying to find someone who has a little dog like mine and who wants to go over to Spain in Jan for 6 weeks- 2 months want someone to share the cost and journey Portsmouth - Santander then myself on to Fuengirola and I can drop anyone in the area of the costa del sol


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## xabiaxica

lindylou2345 said:


> The employer is still in trouble as he should have asked to see papers, health card etc
> 
> Lindy lou
> 
> Toatally diferent subject I am trying to find someone who has a little dog like mine and who wants to go over to Spain in Jan for 6 weeks- 2 months want someone to share the cost and journey Portsmouth - Santander then myself on to Fuengirola and I can drop anyone in the area of the costa del sol


yes, I saw that you started a thread about it - it's rare to pretty much never that we get any uptake on anything like that 

but if anyone can help - please reply on http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/120126-spain-dog.html


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## lindylou2345

Thank you Lindy lou


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## jonmlb748

apparently you now have to stipulate the working hours on the contract,ie start and finish time days worked etc.also as pointed out you cannot be atonomo and work for one employer .even if you could you would have to bill him plus iva so he could claim against his business. the same as employing a builder,plumber or whatever.soc sec aren't daft the bar owner took a big risk and he will get several thousand euro fine.


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## mazlester

My contract only has number if hours worked as start times and days worked are different every week


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## Sarajanexx

Everything was sorted anyway, nothing has come from any of it, also everyone now actually has contracts.


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## xabiaxica

Sarajanexx said:


> Everything was sorted anyway, nothing has come from any of it, also everyone now actually has contracts.


so something did come from it

everyone got legal :clap2:


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## donz

and nothing happened to the owner? he didn't get fined? I know someone that runs a beauty place and she was fined €7k for 2 people not having contracts about a year ago when the SS walked in unannounced


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## V-Dog

Sarajanexx said:


> Everything was sorted anyway, nothing has come from any of it, also everyone now actually has contracts.


Good. Glad to hear it!

Stories with a happy ending are always the best 1's!


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## jimenato

If they did it around here, every bar and most shops would be caught. (All Spanish BTW)


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## livoshka

If you're afraid of the consequences, then don't work for black money


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