# if the euro collapses, what happens with my UK pension?



## julietr (Jun 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky,
You seem to be someone who has answers! Have heard today that Spain is seeking money from the EU this morning. As a new member on this site, but an expat in the mountains of Almeria for 7 years, do you know the answer to this very simple and basic question (I am almost too embarrassed to ask it!): IF the Euro collapses, how does one access an English pension sent directly to our Spanish bank account? Will it still be transferred in some new currency, or will it be swallowed by the bank and lost forever?!! Do you have any advice?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

julietr said:


> Pesky Wesky,
> You seem to be someone who has answers! Have heard today that Spain is seeking money from the EU this morning. As a new member on this site, but an expat in the mountains of Almeria for 7 years, do you know the answer to this very simple and basic question (I am almost too embarrassed to ask it!): IF the Euro collapses, how does one access an English pension sent directly to our Spanish bank account? Will it still be transferred in some new currency, or will it be swallowed by the bank and lost forever?!! Do you have any advice?


Hi there,
nice to see you on the site! Although perhaps not in the best of cirumstances re the bailout...

I am definitely not the one to ask about money issues, pensions included especially anything to do with UK/ Spain as I have no money connections with the UK at all. No pension, no property just a current account (with the same conditions as when I was a student over 30 years ago!!)
Stravinsky, xabiachica, Baldilocks, Thrax and many others will be able to give you some info no doubt. Also look on the sticky forms, education, driving etc.

Would love to know more about life in the mountains in Almeria if you had time to open a thread...


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## julietr (Jun 9, 2012)

Thanks for a speedy and honest reply! I am still new to forums of any kind and if I knew how to open a thread I would! Bear with me!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

:welcome:

I've moved your question to a thread of its own - I'm sure there must be others wondering the same thing

if you want to start a thread, go to the main Spain page & click on this symbol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi there,
> nice to see you on the site! Although perhaps not in the best of cirumstances re the bailout...
> 
> I am definitely not the one to ask about money issues, pensions included especially anything to do with UK/ Spain as I have no money connections with the UK at all. No pension, no property just a current account (with the same conditions as when I was a student over 30 years ago!!)
> ...


I'm in much the same situation - except I don't even have a UK bank account!!!


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## Ronnie_Yook (May 9, 2012)

*English Pension*

RE: English Pension, as your English Pension is paid out in English Pounds then converted to the currency (€uros) of your residence (Spain) a possible solution might be to use an English bank with branches registered in your specific country of residence (Spain) ie: Barclays? 

Have you tried the English Embassy? they are excellent for info on all English matters: English Passport, English Health Card etc.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Don't worry Julie, there are an estimated half a million expat pensioners in the same boat, not to mention all the British businesses with branches in Spain. Something will be sorted out.

Besides, the whole point of the imminent bailout is to make sure Spanish banks DON'T collapse!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Ronnie_Yook said:


> RE: English Pension, as your English Pension is paid out in English Pounds then converted to the currency (€uros) of your residence (Spain) a possible solution might be to use an English bank with branches registered in your specific country of residence (Spain) ie: Barclays?
> 
> Have you tried the English Embassy? they are excellent for info on all English matters: English Passport, English Health Card etc.


what difference would that make???

Barclays in Spain isn't the same as the UK Barclays - part of the same group, but it doesn't have the same links as say, a branch in London with one in Newcastle - I don't know for sure about other banks with English names though

actually I think the DWP in Newcastle might be best placed to advise on this


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I get my O.A.P. paid into Nationwide in England, I can then either draw it from any cash machine, or wait until I accrue a substantial amount and then transfer it with a currency transfer company to my Spanish account.

Due to the fluctuations of the Pound against the Euro, under no circumstances would I have it paid direct into a Spanish account.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

I think it is unlikely to happen but following other examples, bank accounts in Spain would be frozen and any money in them would be converted to New peseta or whatever the new money is called. Any money paid would then be converted in the same way as previously. The likelihood is that you would receive a lot more NP than € as there would probably be a devaluation of about 25%.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> I think it is unlikely to happen but following other examples, bank accounts in Spain would be frozen and any money in them would be converted to New peseta or whatever the new money is called. Any money paid would then be converted in the same way as previously. The likelihood is that you would receive a lot more NP than € as there would probably be a devaluation of about 25%.


Does that mean I will not be able to spend the 1959 one Peseta coin I found in the garden last week


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Calas felices said:


> I think it is unlikely to happen but following other examples, bank accounts in Spain would be frozen and any money in them would be converted to New peseta or whatever the new money is called. Any money paid would then be converted in the same way as previously. The likelihood is that you would receive a lot more NP than € as there would probably be a devaluation of about 25%.


as long as these 'new pesetas' or whatever they might be called _*IF*_ it happens have the same buying power in Mercadona as the Euro, I'm not too worried




though I'm guessing they might not


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

julietr said:


> Pesky Wesky,
> You seem to be someone who has answers! Have heard today that Spain is seeking money from the EU this morning. As a new member on this site, but an expat in the mountains of Almeria for 7 years, do you know the answer to this very simple and basic question (I am almost too embarrassed to ask it!): IF the Euro collapses, how does one access an English pension sent directly to our Spanish bank account? Will it still be transferred in some new currency, or will it be swallowed by the bank and lost forever?!! Do you have any advice?


Hi Julietr
Don't know anything about pensions but similar as to what was said above it would seem wise to be in more control of how and when your money moves around.
I would suggest having a UK account and then watch the pound to euro rate and transfer when the pound has one of its moves up. It has been like a rubber ball for a long old while now, so I would watch the exchange rate and transfer when the pound moves up, and because that happens several times during a week right now it must save a few quid over time even on smaller transfers!
Then if the worst happens with the euro your money is safe in a UK account which you should be able to access in a few ways at least!

I've been looking at property in Almeria in the mountains! Can you give me an idea of what it's like. Travel, weather, living costs, are people friendly to brits or anything you think might be interesting or useful to know? I'll most likely start a new thread on this question but thought I would tag it on the end


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Hi Julie or is it Juliet - Welcome to the forum

My name was mentioned earlier as being somebody who might know the answer to your question, but, like so many, until there is anything concrete, I, too, am in the dark. I have a small current account with Barclays in UK which I was using as a holding account and transferring money every so often to Spain. But now, I just use it to receive a few small pensions that it is not worth getting the payers to pay in Spain. It means that I have a small reserve there should I need to pop across, also as a means of paying for stuff from Amazon (free delivery to Spain by courier over £25), Lakeland, M&S etc. or if I need to pay my sister to get something and send/bring it to Spain. Otherwise my OAP gets paid direct to my Spanish bank account.


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## julietr (Jun 9, 2012)

Dear Baldilocks,
It's Juliet!
Yes, we have some money remaining in the UK. Just have budget amount coming out here to live on each month. No savings here, fortunately. Just all tied up in the house! heigh Ho!
Thanks for replying. Just good to know other folk are out there asking the same questions!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi Juliet,
We have two Spanish bank accounts and I also have a UK bank account for when I work in the UK and for some online work I do specifically for the UK. 

My husband's pensions are paid into our joint Spanish bank account and that is one worry, as it is likely that on any changeover, accounts would be frozen for a short while. This would mean that our direct debits could be messed up and we might end up with more fees to pay, but I guess that every Spanish person would also be in the same boat and things will be worked out within a few days.

But it's one of the reasons why I insisted on keeping on the UK bank account (apart from the simple reason, it is easier). It would at least give us limited access to funds for that short while.

However, the biggest bugbear could perhaps be that cash-points wouldn't work, so any payments would have to be done online and those without any ready cash would find life very difficult indeed.

So having some cash in hand for this eventuality would seem to be a good idea.
Hopefully, the old cash would still work for a while after the changeover (shops take in one currency and give you back another).
But for those keeping lots of cash under the mattress, perhaps not such a good idea! 

But of course, this is all speculation, as we are all kept in the dark about what could happen.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Think about this logically.

If you were living in Australia, your pension would be transferred by your UK pensions company (or the state) to you in Australia if you chose to do it that way. It would be changed into Australian dollars in the process

The same applies. If Spain changes from € to peseta, all that will happen is that your provider will make the necessary currency change and pay you in pesetas into your peseta bank account.

Personally, I will just have it paid into my UK bank account as I do now, and choose they way I move it to Spain

I have to say that the chances of the Spanish banking system collapsing are pretty slim imho. Just my opinion, but I think there are many other countries and organisations that really dont want to see it happen .... On the news this morning it reiterated that Spain is the 4th largest economy in the EU!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There is at this time absolutely no need for anyone to worry, let alone panic.
Any changes will not happen overnight.
My UK earnings/pensions are paid into an offshore sterling account and I have an offshore euro account but I also keep reasonably large sums in an account with Banco Sabadell.
I have no intention of altering any of my current financial arrangements.
Spain will request a bail-out of its banks. The poosibility that it might revert to the peseta has not been seriously discussed.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Just in case any pensioners might think they are missing out having their pension regularly transferred some thoughts:

There is no evidence that amateurs can predict the highs and lows of exchange rates. Indeed if you look at currency funds run by professionals you will see that very few beat the average and even if they do they cannot manage it over a very long period.

The advantage of regular transfer is that you will get the average exchange rate. 

However there are often increased fixed charges (which may be in the form of the spread - the difference between the buy and sell price) so it is worth considering say monthly transfers as opposed to weekly as an example.

Hope that helps someone 

For those who do speculate and have won so far good luck to you.

.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Well, if 'speculating' means taking advantage of a higher £/euro rate to change £s into euros you know you will need shortly...I did that last week and probably gained a few hundred euros more than I did the last time I changed.
That's what anyone with half a brain would do, isn't it, if they knew they were about to pay a large sum in euros.. It's called being prudent!
I know I have six months rent to pay next month - I choose to pay in lump sums rather than monthly - so I acted with due diligence. I can't afford not to.
Anyone who knows that they will be obliged to pay larger than normal sums in the next week or so, for whatever reason, should take advantage of favourable rates.
One small way of getting back the almost 30% depreciation since 2007 in the value of my income and that of anyone receiving income in £s, whether from pensions, dividends or investments of any kind in sterling.

Stravinsky is right. Spain doesn't want to be forced out of the eurozone and a recent poll apparently showed that Spain is one of the EU states most keen on continuing with the union. 
Enough people already have panicked and withdrawn money fromSpanish banks. Billions of euros have left the country, presumably to Germany or Switzerland...or even London.
Needless panic which willitself bring about the very thing these people are afraid of.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Mary I think you are mixing up:


currency speculation
ensuring you have enough Euros to meet commitments
Not sure why they would be connected. Speculation would surely be moving money, not currently needed, to Euros because you think the pound will fall, or delaying transfer of non required funds because you feel the pound will climb.

So on a certain day you are using your skills to predict the direction of the currency exchanges. I would suggest that is not a smart strategy for the majority especially when the regular transfer will at worst give them the average result. As I say the professionals struggle to make this work but of course there are exceptions.

"Needless panic which willitself bring about the very thing these people are afraid of." which means they called it right


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I have been asking this question with folk back home who are paid a lot of money to know the answers and their advice is simple. The chance of Spain leaving the Euro is practically zero. However, if it did it would have to revert to the old currency and in the process it would need to be devalued probably by as much as 50% or more. This would mean that they would be very uncompetitive overseas but for people with UK pensions they might be worth twice the amount they are right now. Not for ever or even a long time but certainly at the beginning.


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## julietr (Jun 9, 2012)

Many thanks, Solwriter. Very reassuring stuff!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

thrax said:


> The chance of Spain leaving the Euro is practically zero.


Thrax I know people will bet on two flies climbing up a wall but:

Current odds at the bookies of who leaves the Euro after Greece.

Portugal	11/8
Spain 15/8
Italy 4/1
Belgium 6/1
Ireland 6/1
Cyprus 12/1
France 33/1
Germany 100/1

The odds aren't important but the order is interesting


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Thrax I know people will bet on two flies climbing up a wall but:
> 
> Current odds at the bookies of who leaves the Euro after Greece.
> 
> ...


I'm not a betting man but what are the odds on Greece then, or no odds available cos everyone thinks it will be gone soon?


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Muddy said:


> I'm not a betting man but what are the odds on Greece then, or no odds available cos everyone thinks it will be gone soon?


10/1 on. [for non gamblers that's you lay £10 to get the chance of winning £1] Now does that tell us something??? 

Interestingly they do not publish odds for no country to leave (say in 2 years). Of course the spread-betting companies allow that but the odds are very poor.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

there a basic question that no one seems to be asking....there was X amount of money, now there is almost nothing and a large pile of IOU'S.

take our near and dear ex sir Freddy G....... the Royal Bank of Scotland is in tatters... freddy.... walks away with his millions intact. how fair is that?

where did all the money we gave to banks, invested in insurance/pension plans go?

It must have went somewhere.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

nigele2 said:


> Thrax I know people will bet on two flies climbing up a wall but:
> 
> Current odds at the bookies of who leaves the Euro after Greece.
> 
> ...


Actually the odds are interesting.

I worked for a bookies for a while and even 11/8 is a bet most canny gamblers wouldn't consider unless they had money to burn (or inside information).


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

thrax said:


> I have been asking this question with folk back home who are paid a lot of money to know the answers and their advice is simple. The chance of Spain leaving the Euro is practically zero. However, if it did it would have to revert to the old currency and in the process it would need to be devalued probably by as much as 50% or more. This would mean that they would be very uncompetitive overseas but for people with UK pensions they might be worth twice the amount they are right now. Not for ever or even a long time but certainly at the beginning.


Thrax, it would be interesting to know what the Peseta was to the pound prior to taking up the €. And where was it compared to its position now being 4th largest economy in Europe?
Why would Spain be uncompetitive if going back to a devalued currency?
I would have thought overall right now at least it would be better for the country as a whole. I'm guessing it depends on how much and what Spain exports, and how much they import in the way of oil, gas and materials to produce those exports!
Just my layman's view on things but wouldn't it also be better in the way of boosting tourism cos other currencies would go a lot further so encouraging more people to visit! Properties would be more affordable to outsiders so this would bring more cash back into the country and help pay off debt.
As long as Spain can produce the important everyday things that the ordinary person in the street needs to live on then apart from it costing a hell of a lot more when you travel outside Spain I would have thought a devalued currency would help it recover overall. And if a weaker currency is bad, why is the UK BOA printing money and devaluing the pound! 
I ask too many questions lol


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> 10/1 on. [for non gamblers that's you lay £10 to get the chance of winning £1] Now does that tell us something???


I think that tells us a lot!! 


> Interestingly they do not publish odds for no country to leave (say in 2 years). Of course the spread-betting companies allow that but the odds are very poor.


I no little of the politics or finance but I keep hearing it said the Greek people want to stay in the euro, but at the same time they don't seem to have voted that way and I can´t see them voting for more austerity on the 17th!
I would guess they might say they want to keep the currency € but not follow the austerity, but Merkel wont let them have their cake and eat so to speak. Not that they´ll have much left to buy cake with...!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> Actually the odds are interesting.
> 
> I worked for a bookies for a while and even 11/8 is a bet most canny gamblers wouldn't consider unless they had money to burn (or inside information).


Solwriter I expect as you know the job of the bookie is to balance the book. When balanced the book (and thus the odds) reflects opinion based on real money and the bookie cannot lose. I suggested the odds are not relevant because this book is fairly new and thus is based on the bookies guess to kick start the process and not hard cash. But the bookies normally are not far off the mark 

Interesting that if Spain and Portugal left together then their odds are half that offered above!! Odds on.

Certainly if you are working in a bookies retail outlet you will see the lottery type betting (longer odds) but the big money and the most money will be on the 11/8 favourite or the book wouldn't balance. Bookies rarely gamble 

Be interesting to see if the odds move after Spain's rescue (you call it tomarto, I call it tometo ) and the Greek result


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Muddy said:


> Thrax, it would be interesting to know what the Peseta was to the pound prior to taking up the €. And where was it compared to its position now being 4th largest economy in Europe?
> Why would Spain be uncompetitive if going back to a devalued currency?
> I would have thought overall right now at least it would be better for the country as a whole. I'm guessing it depends on how much and what Spain exports, and how much they import in the way of oil, gas and materials to produce those exports!
> Just my layman's view on things but wouldn't it also be better in the way of boosting tourism cos other currencies would go a lot further so encouraging more people to visit! Properties would be more affordable to outsiders so this would bring more cash back into the country and help pay off debt.
> ...


 when they entered it was about 250pesteas=£1
At present if Spain reverted to pesetas at 166,386=1€ ,then devalued by 30% & assuming the £=€ remained at 1,25 then for money coming in from outside the country i.e. pounds or euros you'd get 
£1 = 262
1€ = 210
:confused2:

I think that's correct . Put me right if I'm wrong. 
Therefore I have money in the bank here which would be changed into 166,386 pesetas for each euro held.
If I bring in my euros I'll get 210 pesetas for each euro held.
If I bring in my pounds I'll get 262 for each one.

conclusion : I'll change my euros held outside into pounds at 1,25 then bring them in at 262 so gaining another 30% . 
Does that sound right ? :confused2:


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> conclusion : I'll change my euros held outside into pounds at 1,25 then bring them in at 262 so gaining another 30% .
> Does that sound right ? :confused2:


Gus so you conclude the only place you do not want money is in a spanish bank? No need to convert to pounds: Euros, yuan, dolars, ... but not Euros in Spain.

My fear would be that they pick a conversion level, do the transfer, and then the currency falls further in the open markets. A bit like all the dosh people lost on facebook.

Imagine if they had set that level based on data from 3 months ago when spain said it didn't need money. Or a few weeks ago when it only needed 40 billion. Or today when it needs 100 billion. Or tomorrow when it needs ???? :eyebrows

And if it happens how will they control inflation? Perhaps Generalissimo Rajoy will demand price freezes on basic goods  All very scary.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> there a basic question that no one seems to be asking....there was X amount of money, now there is almost nothing and a large pile of IOU'S.
> 
> take our near and dear ex sir Freddy G....... the Royal Bank of Scotland is in tatters... freddy.... walks away with his millions intact. how fair is that?
> 
> ...


This might answer your question.
BBC News - Sunday Times Rich List: Wealthy getting richer


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Mary I think you are mixing up:
> 
> 
> currency speculation
> ...



But I do watch the rate every day, Nigel. Because my income is in £s I need to be able to take advantage of good rates and I build up a euro store for future use.

I don't think thatb people whom panic are 'right'. I think their panic causes that which they fear...Northern Rock springs to mind....


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I don't think thatb people whom panic are 'right'. I think their panic causes that which they fear...Northern Rock springs to mind....


Thank you. 

Sometimes I think people on some of the forums work for Jeff Randall from SKY news. Throughout the banking crisis in the UK, if you listened to him too much you would have thrown yourself off the top of a very tall building. The end of the world was nigh and we were all going to hell in a handcart.

Throughout history there has been all kinds of financial crap ....... depressions, strikes, the banks etc etc .... There have been casualties of course, but overall "we" have come through them and continued living


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I don't think thatb people whom panic are 'right'. I think their panic causes that which they fear...Northern Rock springs to mind....


or Equitable Life, Henry.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

nigele2 said:


> Solwriter I expect as you know the job of the bookie is to balance the book. When balanced the book (and thus the odds) reflects opinion based on real money and the bookie cannot lose. I suggested the odds are not relevant because this book is fairly new and thus is based on the bookies guess to kick start the process and not hard cash. But the bookies normally are not far off the mark
> 
> Interesting that if Spain and Portugal left together then their odds are half that offered above!! Odds on.
> 
> Certainly if you are working in a bookies retail outlet you will see the lottery type betting (longer odds)* but the big money and the most money will be on the 11/8 favourite or the book wouldn't balance. Bookies rarely gamble*


Exactly.
Which is why I found the odds, new as the book is, to be interesting.
But in any case, I would bet that those odds are rather different this morning.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> But I do watch the rate every day, Nigel. Because my income is in £s I need to be able to take advantage of good rates and I build up a euro store for future use.


Mary I don't have anything against people speculating on the currency markets. There is after all a spread betting industry in the UK that reaps profit from such speculators and pays tax to the UK government. I'm all for it.

But several posts on this forum give the impression that predicting currency movements is very easy and thus people dependent on pensions might be tempted to give it a go.

My post merely pointed out first that by following a passive strategy you will not miss out but achieve a worry free average result. 

And that more frequent transfers of money can increase costs and this was worth investigating if your cash flow allows for such.

If you have as they say in the industry 'hot hands' and are consistently predicting currency movements I first congratulate you and secondly suggest you visit spread betting web sites were you can make a fortune  



mrypg9 said:


> I don't think than people whom panic are 'right'. I think their panic causes that which they fear...Northern Rock springs to mind....


But the people who got out of Northern Rock early did for themselves (as individuals) the right thing. 

Are you suggesting that my spanish bil and sil should leave their total savings (a very small amount reserved for their daughters education) in Bankia? That might be seen as a noble gesture towards Spain but as parents might be seen as gross negligence.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Sometimes I think people on some of the forums work for Jeff Randall from SKY news. Throughout the banking crisis in the UK, if you listened to him too much you would have thrown yourself off the top of a very tall building. The end of the world was nigh and we were all going to hell in a handcart.
> 
> Throughout history there has been all kinds of financial crap ....... depressions, strikes, the banks etc etc .... *There have been casualties of course, but overall "we" have come through them and continued living*


My Gran lived through two world wars and very many 'minor' conflagrations. 
She survived the Great Depression of the 1930s, post-war austerity, the economic downturn of the 1960s. Mercifully she shuffled her mortal coil before the Thatcher era...She was a life-long Labour voter and, mindful of the Suffragette experience, never missed an election, whether for the local council or the national government. She was born before the first powered flight and didn't stay up to watch the moon landing which she thought a waste of money that could have been spent on the world's poor and hungry.

Throughout her very long life -she died in her nineties - she saw her own standard of living and quality of life steadily improved. She was born in a cottage with no electricity and an earth closet but when she died her small detached house had tv, a fridge and a telephone which she never used. She twice flew to Canada to visit her daughter. She was never a wealthy woman...on the contrary, her sole income was her state and small widow's pension. The modest house she lived in for most of her life was rented. (At one point the landlord was Jimmy Tarbuck...)

When we speculate on gloom, doom and disaster, it helps sometimes to take a long view and get some perspective. I'm sure that in the late 1930s fear of fascism and Hitler's Germany was as powerful and perhaps more real than our fears of terrorist attack. I'm also sure that there were times when money was short and the food on the table spartan. But she lived through it and was content with her life. Her grandchildren and great grandchildren all had university educations and professional careers.

How we cope with this crisis depends on us as much as external factors. It seems to be the fate of 'ordinary' working people to be shat on from a great height, whether from right or left. We are after all only the Great British Public.

But in the immortal words of Gloria Gaynor'We shall survive' and in the equally immortal words of Sergeant Pike: 'Don't panic!!!!'


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> This might answer your question.
> BBC News - Sunday Times Rich List: Wealthy getting richer



Nothing new there then....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Mary I don't have anything against people speculating on the currency markets. There is after all a spread betting industry in the UK that reaps profit from such speculators and pays tax to the UK government. I'm all for it.
> 
> But several posts on this forum give the impression that predicting currency movements is very easy and thus people dependent on pensions might be tempted to give it a go.
> 
> ...


I have no interest in 'making a fortune'.....especially not from spread betting websites. If we had wanted to make more money we would have stayed in the UK and run our business until we reached retirement age instead of getting out when we had earned enough to be able to live a reasonably comfortable lifestyle from our own efforts..

All I am doing is what any sensible person living out of the UK but receiving UK earnings would do. Watching currency movements and taking advantage of them simply in order to pay the bills. Not predicting...watching, although there are events which are likely to have consequences for exchange rates and sensible people note them.I think you would be daft not to.

Whether or not people should remove money from Bankia etc. is their decision. I personally wouldn't. Afalk bank deposits are guaranteed. But harsh as it may sound, people who invest must be prepared to lose as well as gain. The small print tells you that. Investors are happy to see their investments grow but understandably less than happy when their value declines. Risk is an integral part of our economic system and always will be. Like many people, OH and I have lost a considerable amount of expected income through low interest rates. Fortunately we don't have a luxury lifestyle - our main extravagance is our house which I justify by referring to the almost eighty years of work we've racked up between us. But we can always downsize.

There are very many kinds of losers in this current crisis. We aren't amongst the worst hit, I know, and I'm thankful.

But I think there is far too much unfounded speculative comment and premature panic doing the rounds.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> immortal words of Sergeant Pike: 'Don't panic!!!!'


Mary, I am ashamed of you. You are giving we less than young persons a bad name or maybe it is your G&T or lack of. Sergeant Pike???? - it was Lance Corporal (later Corporal) Jones. Pike was only ever a Private, you ask his Uncle Arthur.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> My Gran lived through two world wars and very many 'minor' conflagrations.
> She survived the Great Depression of the 1930s, post-war austerity, the economic downturn of the 1960s. Mercifully she shuffled her mortal coil before the Thatcher era...She was a life-long Labour voter and, mindful of the Suffragette experience, never missed an election, whether for the local council or the national government. She was born before the first powered flight and didn't stay up to watch the moon landing which she thought a waste of money that could have been spent on the world's poor and hungry.
> 
> Throughout her very long life -she died in her nineties - she saw her own standard of living and quality of life steadily improved. She was born in a cottage with no electricity and an earth closet but when she died her small detached house had tv, a fridge and a telephone which she never used. She twice flew to Canada to visit her daughter. She was never a wealthy woman...on the contrary, her sole income was her state and small widow's pension. The modest house she lived in for most of her life was rented. (At one point the landlord was Jimmy Tarbuck...)
> ...


I think I would have liked your Gran.

People like that are hard to find in this modern age, and although I will no doubt get shot down for saying it, if more people had the sort of values that our parents and grandparents had then this world would be a better place. Its all about the money now, and it will just get worse and worse I'm afraid until one day in the far distant future, people will have no values whatsoever

Sorry for the rant


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Mary, I am ashamed of you. You are giving we less than young persons a bad name or maybe it is your G&T or lack of. Sergeant Pike???? - it was Lance Corporal (later Corporal) Jones. Pike was only ever a Private, you ask his Uncle Arthur.


Of course, Baldy!!

I stand corrected..

I bet you're not panicking....and I never drink before at least 6pm. I agree with Alca that there's something faintly immoral about day-time drinking but more importantly alcohol and sun render me semi-comatose for the rest of the day ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> I think I would have liked your Gran.
> 
> People like that are hard to find in this modern age, and although I will no doubt get shot down for saying it, if more people had the sort of values that our parents and grandparents had then this world would be a better place. Its all about the money now, and it will just get worse and worse I'm afraid until one day in the far distant future, people will have no values whatsoever
> 
> Sorry for the rant



Oh Stravinsky....when it comes to rants you are a mild ranter indeed...

Now if you had attended the Mary School of Sustained and OTT Ranting'.....


Yes, you would have liked my Gran. She was a tough old bird, spoke in Dorset dialect and unlike me was a woman of few but pithy words. Her sniffs and snorts were sufficient to convey a range of emotions....

After my dad died, my gran and graddad helped bring me up as my mum had to work. My gran's values were shaped by her hard early life and the end of the Victorian era into which she was born. Her chief concerns were respectability and 'paying your way' which basically meant not borrowing or buying anything on the dreaded hp. 

But alongside her firm conviction that she was the equal of anyone in the land she was also a firm believer in 'knowing your place' an attitude that infuriated me and probably was a main cause of my taking up radical politics.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> when they entered it was about 250pesteas=£1
> At present if Spain reverted to pesetas at 166,386=1€ ,then devalued by 30% & assuming the £=€ remained at 1,25 then for money coming in from outside the country i.e. pounds or euros you'd get
> £1 = 262
> 1€ = 210
> ...


I think I was up too late Guss as can't for the life of me work anything out this morning lol
My brain is really not working so don't laugh too hard lol
I make that 33.6% ish devaled to make it 166 but I'm most likely looking at it arse about tit 
I've never dealt with Peseta's so I'm well and trully lost anyway 
But as Spain is very very unlikely to leave the euro then I guess it's just a bit of interesting Math and no more right now.
I guess if it did happen then the euro would take a big hit so you would lose out for sure changing your cash from euro's whereever they were held! And I bet that would happen just before your cash in Spanish banks was converted into Pesetas.
Not sure you would gain another 30%! just the currency difference + what ever the devaluation would add up to!
Anyways, sorry I shouldn't be posting as I'm still in Rem sleep I think lol


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh Stravinsky....when it comes to rants you are a mild ranter indeed...


I attended the Mild Rant school of Mild Ranting some years ago after I realised that moderators weren't allowed opinions or feelings on any kind of subject that involved anything whatsoever other than the weather


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Please accept my heartiest congratulations on your amazing capacity for self-control...the greatest respect is due to you and your fellow-mods.

No way could I refrain from replying to some of the more obtuse posts here...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> I attended the Mild Rant school of Mild Ranting some years ago after I realised that moderators weren't allowed opinions or feelings on any kind of subject that involved anything whatsoever other than the weather


As a former employee of the Met Office, I take objection to your picking on the weather. D*mned Moderators! The think they run the show! Bah humbug!!! Pass me another glass of Pomeroy's Old Peculiar!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Please accept my heartiest congratulations on your amazing capacity for self-control...the greatest respect is due to you and your fellow-mods.
> 
> No way could I refrain from replying to some of the more obtuse posts here...


My way is to find the funny bit and pick on that, it defuses most obtuseness.

BTW I agree with your Gran. My grandparents who brought me up during the war were a source of great inspiration and imparted a good sense of values, a good sense of humour and a great sense of fairplay.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> All I am doing is what any sensible person living out of the UK but receiving UK earnings would do. Watching currency movements and taking advantage of them simply in order to pay the bills. Not predicting...watching, although there are events which are likely to have consequences for exchange rates and sensible people note them.I think you would be daft not to.


But do you not at times get it wrong and take disadvantage? 

You're too much of a politician for me Mary. Never answer a straight question. I'm gone. Adios :wave:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> But do you not at times get it wrong and take disadvantage?
> 
> You're too much of a politician for me Mary. Never answer a straight question. I'm gone. Adios :wave:


Since when have I not answered a straight question, Nigel?? Show examples...
I do like to get my facts right as far as possible and acknowledge and correct them when proved wrong though....which not everybody does, do they...

Here's a straight answer: No. No disadvantage. It works like this: I need euros at some point in the future...to pay the rent, dentist's bills, car repair, whatever.
I check the daily rates and when I think there is an improvement I change the amount I need then pay the bills.
Then do the same next time. 
Of course the rates vary and sometimes I'd have got a few tens or hundreds of euros more, depending on fluctuations.
But so what? I don't make my living trading currencies so where's the 'disadvantage'?.
I just do what most people here do. Take care of what money they have.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> I attended the Mild Rant school of Mild Ranting some years ago after I realised that moderators weren't allowed opinions or feelings on any kind of subject that involved anything whatsoever other than the weather


ah - but we are - my sig says so


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The Camoron and Clogg show. Watch it here:

Right Honourable Gentlemen? David Cameron Nick Clegg EXPOSED Documentary - YouTube


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## julietr (Jun 9, 2012)

Have enjoyed reading all of these rants! It seemed like such a simple question........!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

julietr said:


> Have enjoyed reading all of these rants! It seemed like such a simple question........!


Ah but you touched on a rather difficult question to which none of knows the answer and none of us cares to admit that we might be a tiny bit worried if we suddenly find ourselves cut off without a bean or our incomes drastically reduced. 

Sometimes the simplest of questions have the most complicated answers because each attempt at a simple answer provokes an even more complicated question, rather like the one that goes "What are you thinking about?" or "Do you love me? *really* love me?"

If you get my point.

However, Juliet don't be put off, ask other questions, join in on some of the other threads, we always look to hear fresh points of view. Many of us seem to know each other so well that no matter what we post we know what another person's take on it will be. We each have our personalities and they are often (but not always) reflected in our posts.


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## julietr (Jun 9, 2012)

So gracious! I will persevere, I am sure!


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