# Residency requires health insurance?



## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm a US citizen and I'm married to a Spanish citizen born in Spain. We decided to spend 7 months in Spain starting late this last March. Here in Spain we were told at several government offices that the only way for me to stay longer than the 3 months allowed by a tourist visa would be to get residency. I went through that long and arduous process until I was given a paper with my NEI number which stated that I would be contacted soon for my fingerprints.

I was just notified by them that I need to prove that I have health insurance and sufficient income/savings on which to live. Best of all, they gave me a 10-day time limit to come up with this stuff which is down to about 8. I plan to fax them a few bank statements, but I don't have health insurance. We used to live in California but we moved out to come on this trip so we don't have a permanent home right now. My parents still live in California.

What would you do in my situation? I think I should either get health insurance here in Spain or health insurance in the US which covers me in Spain. I would be amazed if I could get US health insurance in 8 days, although I was previously covered under BCBS so that might streamline the process. How should I go about looking for health insurance in Spain? I'm not sure where to start with that.

Considering that all I want to do is spend more than 3 months in Spain with my Spanish wife, I'm amazed at all I've had to go through, but hopefully this is the last step. Thanks to anyone who can offer their advice.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The rules of residencia are the same for everyone, even EU citizens. Its now standard practice in Spain. You are given an NIE number which lasts for three months, if you wish to stay longer then you need to renew it and become a resident. To do that you have to prove income and healthcare provision. I dont know which cover would be best, US that covers you in Spain probably??? 

It does beg the question, that if you dont have any health insurance, what would you do if you are taken ill???
Jo xxx


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## Bfpijuan (Apr 6, 2011)

Does your husband work in Spain? If so, you are covered under him.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bfpijuan said:


> Does your husband work in Spain? If so, you are covered under him.


his wife 

yes that was my first thought - but he has to be resident first, before he can be covered..............



the best idea I think would be to contact any one of the many many health ins. companies here in Spain- they tend to be cheaper than the 'offshore' ones

Sanitas, ASSSA to name but two - I'm sure a search of the forum would bring up several more


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

expatrocks said:


> How should I go about looking for health insurance in Spain? I'm not sure where to start with that.


Contact Sanitas, they are specialists in health insurance for expats.


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

Thank you everyone, I'm looking into Sanitas now. Can I cancel the insurance once I leave Spain in October?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

expatrocks said:


> Thank you everyone, I'm looking into Sanitas now. Can I cancel the insurance once I leave Spain in October?


You'll have to ask them that!


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## SteveMcCrady (Jul 27, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> his wife
> 
> yes that was my first thought - but he has to be resident first, before he can be covered..............
> 
> ...


Both are very good providers in my opinion, depending on where in Spain you will be living, ASSSA do not cover everywhere in Spain, but do offer good value and good service if you are in one of their areas.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SteveMcCrady said:


> Both are very good providers in my opinion, depending on where in Spain you will be living, ASSSA do not cover everywhere in Spain, but do offer good value and good service if you are in one of their areas.


yes, we used to use them - overall we were happy with them, but that is probably more due to the actual local doctor we used through them, than the company itself


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> You'll have to ask them that!


In that case, I can say based on my experience thus far, the answer depends on who, when, and how I ask.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

expatrocks said:


> In that case, I can say based on my experience thus far, the answer depends on who, when, and how I ask.


 Can you either take out a policy to cover you til October or simply notify them that you no longer require them in October and stop paying the premiums!!

If you have an existing health insurance from your home country, can you not just simply ask them to extend it to Spanish cover for 7 months??? Or if you are eligible to work in Spain, can you not register as autonomo, then you'll be covered by the Spanish system

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

expatrocks said:


> In that case, I can say based on my experience thus far, the answer depends on who, when, and how I ask.


But they must have a policy for short term cover, surely? 

When I submitted my details for a quote a couple of years ago, an English rep rang me back within the hour to answer all my questions.

Here's their English website.
Sanitas Healthplan Classic - Sanitas Health Plan Spain


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

I wasn't clear, I meant to ask if the Spanish government would require me to maintain the insurance after I leave. This residency I'm applying for will allow me to come and go from Spain as I please for 5 years I think? I'm wondering if they will require me to maintain health insurance for that entire time. I thought Alcalaina meant I should ask the Spanish government about this, and my comment was meant as a joke about their inconsistency.



> If you have an existing health insurance from your home country, can you not just simply ask them to extend it to Spanish cover for 7 months???


I don't have any health insurance right now. I'm in my early 30's so I've been able to get away with it so far. We're trying to move to Australia after Spain and all that bouncing around makes it difficult to maintain health insurance.



> Or if you are eligible to work in Spain, can you not register as autonomo, then you'll be covered by the Spanish system


How does that work? I thought they were requiring me to have health insurance because I'm not eligible for coverage under their system. I'm self-employed.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Can you either take out a policy to cover you til October or simply notify them that you no longer require them in October and stop paying the premiums!!
> 
> If you have an existing health insurance from your home country, can you not just simply ask them to extend it to Spanish cover for 7 months??? Or if you are eligible to work in Spain, *can you not register as autonomo*, then you'll be covered by the Spanish system
> 
> Jo xxx


not until he's resident.............. catch 22

and he'd have to have a business in any case


when I recently tried to cancel ours they said I had to keep paying til NEXT December & give them 2 months notice in October 

under the circumstances they (I think) have allowed me to cancel early .......well, at least I haven't had any bills


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> I wasn't clear, I meant to ask if the Spanish government would require me to maintain the insurance after I leave. This residency I'm applying for will allow me to come and go from Spain as I please for 5 years I think? I'm wondering if they will require me to maintain health insurance for that entire time. I thought Alcalaina meant I should ask the Spanish government about this, and my comment was meant as a joke about their inconsistency.
> 
> 
> I don't have any health insurance right now. I'm in my early 30's so I've been able to get away with it so far. We're trying to move to Australia after Spain and all that bouncing around makes it difficult to maintain health insurance.
> ...


I don't know enough about spouse visas to know 100% for sure - but EU citizens are expected to keep up their health insurance while they are resident, so I doubt it would be any different/easier in your case

where are you self-employed?

strictly speaking - if you are here without a resident visa you can't work - not even online for a company in your 'home' country


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

expatrocks said:


> How does that work? I thought they were requiring me to have health insurance because I'm not eligible for coverage under their system. I'm self-employed.


 If you are self employed in Spain then you have to register as autonomo - that costs around 260€ a month excluding tax, but it does mean that you are covered by the spanish system. I briefly read some of your previous posts about setting up an on line business from spain - hence my comment.

However, if you're planning to flit around the world then you will need some international cover - Early 30s????? you're not getting any younger you know lol!!!!!!! Seriously, you never know when something is gonna hit you health/accident wise!

Jo xxx


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> when I recently tried to cancel ours they said I had to keep paying til NEXT December & give them 2 months notice in October


Sanitas says all of their policies are 1-year minimum. My wife is still trying to get ahold of ASSSA.



> where are you self-employed?


In the US.



> strictly speaking - if you are here without a resident visa you can't work - not even online for a company in your 'home' country


Even if it's my company? It's an online store in California.



> If you are self employed in Spain then you have to register as autonomo - that costs around 260€ a month excluding tax, but it does mean that you are covered by the spanish system.


I've been looking into the costs associated with opening an online store in Madrid. If I do open the store, I'll be required to register as autonomo and pay 260€/month? Is autonomo some kind of a health care system?



> if you're planning to flit around the world then you will need some international cover


I'd love to get something like that. Does anyone know of a good international health insurance provider?



> Early 30s????? you're not getting any younger you know


Yeah, early 30's ain't late 20's.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> Sanitas says all of their policies are 1-year minimum. My wife is still trying to get ahold of ASSSA.
> 
> 
> In the US.
> ...


yes, even if it's your company - your physical presence HERE means you are working HERE 

autónomo is self-employed National Insurance - it entitles you to state healthcare & goes towards an eventual state pension - if you are self-employed (even online with a company elsewhere) you have to register & pay - tax is on top of that


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

I have a 'family member of an EU citizen' Spanish residency permit (OH is Spanish) which is good for 10 years. But one of the stipulations is that I can only leave Spain for 3 months at a time or the residency permit becomes null and void. So if you leave Spain to live someplace else and then return before your 5 years are up you might find that need to go through the residency process again.

I have private health insurance with Cajasol Salud, and although I pay monthly it's an annual policy. And I have to give 2 months notice to cancel the policy. It wouldn't work for you.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> yes, even if it's your company - your physical presence HERE means you are working HERE
> 
> autónomo is self-employed National Insurance - it entitles you to state healthcare & goes towards an eventual state pension - if you are self-employed (even online with a company elsewhere) you have to register & pay - tax is on top of that


There is a thread here which looks into living in spain with a business registered abroad:
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/116188-living-spain-uk-based-business.html
It applies to someone with a UK-based business, but it does open up the subject of having a business elsewhere and not registering for autonomo.
(See Stravinsky's answers in particular).

I am referring to this because, as far as I can tell, expatrocks is only intending to spend a limited time in Spain before he moves on elsewhere.
So it might be useful - there again it might not.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> There is a thread here which looks into living in spain with a business registered abroad:
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/116188-living-spain-uk-based-business.html
> It applies to someone with a UK-based business, but it does open up the subject of having a business elsewhere and not registering for autonomo.
> (See Stravinsky's answers in particular).
> ...


yes, I'd forgotten about that - but until he has a resident visa he isn't supposed to work at all, really

& then from what kalohi said, when he gets his resident visa he might not actually have the freedom to move around as much as he wants/is planning to :confused2:


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> your physical presence HERE means you are working HERE


So a person can't come to Spain on vacation and check in with the office or answer work-related email?



> autónomo is self-employed National Insurance - it entitles you to state healthcare & goes towards an eventual state pension - if you are self-employed (even online with a company elsewhere) you have to register & pay - tax is on top of that


There's no way I'm paying Spain $18,000 over the next 5 years. I'll hardly ever be here.



> I have a 'family member of an EU citizen' Spanish residency permit (OH is Spanish) which is good for 10 years. But one of the stipulations is that I can only leave Spain for 3 months at a time or the residency permit becomes null and void. So if you leave Spain to live someplace else and then return before your 5 years are up you might find that need to go through the residency process again.


I haven't heard about anything like that but who knows. They throw stuff at you when you least expect it. Finding someone who can answer questions about any of this is extremely rare but I'll ask the next time I do.



> I have private health insurance with Cajasol Salud, and although I pay monthly it's an annual policy. And I have to give 2 months notice to cancel the policy. It wouldn't work for you.


I need to look into some sort of international health insurance policy I can keep.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> yes, I'd forgotten about that - but until he has a resident visa he isn't supposed to work at all, really
> 
> & then from what kalohi said, when he gets his resident visa he might not actually have the freedom to move around as much as he wants/is planning to :confused2:


Yes, I know.
Catch 22.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

kalohi said:


> I have a 'family member of an EU citizen' Spanish residency permit (OH is Spanish) which is good for 10 years. But one of the stipulations is that I can only leave Spain for 3 months at a time or the residency permit becomes null and void. So if you leave Spain to live someplace else and then return before your 5 years are up you might find that need to go through the residency process again.
> .


I stand corrected. It's 6 months that you'd be allowed to leave, not 3. Straight from the webpage of the Ministerio del Interior: La vigencia de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión caducará por las ausencias superiores a seis meses en un año. LINK


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> I stand corrected. It's 6 months that you'd be allowed to leave, not 3. Straight from the webpage of the Ministerio del Interior: La vigencia de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión caducará por las ausencias superiores a seis meses en un año.


Wow. I should have checked with you guys a long time ago. At what point would they check my passport to see if I've been gone?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> Wow. I should have checked with you guys a long time ago. At what point would they check my passport to see if I've been gone?


every time you come in & go out again.................


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## Bfpijuan (Apr 6, 2011)

What about travel insurance? My husband and I have abbeygate, year round coverage for less than $200 a year.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> every time you come in & go out again.................


Bit of a farce really as he can pop into France , Germany, holland , etc; & fly out /in from there & they'll still think he's here !


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Bit of a farce really as he can pop into France , Germany, holland , etc; & fly out /in from there & they'll still think he's here !


well there is that of course...............which would cause even more problems......


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> Bit of a farce really as he can pop into France , Germany, holland , etc; & fly out /in from there & they'll still think he's here !


Oh I like that.



> well there is that of course...............which would cause even more problems......


What sort of problems?

Has anyone tried IMGlobal health insurance? Their "Patriot Travel Medical Insurance" can be activated in 10 minutes and proof of insurance documents are emailed so that would be perfect for my residency. Plus we could keep the insurance as we travel around.

http://www.imglobal.com/


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> Oh I like that.
> 
> 
> What sort of problems?
> ...


I have no idea what sort of problems.............. I have no idea why I wrote that.....it couldn't cause more problems............call it a blonde senior moment 


I had just received an e-mail with details of a Spanish girl who is coming to stay with us on Sunday for 2 weeks

she sounds like a clone of my 16 year daughter...........down to sometimes being disobedient, being disorganised & untidy & liking to play practical jokes

I think I had a moment of panic.........my daughter has been away for 2 weeks & returns on Sunday - double trouble!!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> So a person can't come to Spain on vacation and check in with the office or answer work-related email?
> 
> 
> There's no way I'm paying Spain $18,000 over the next 5 years. I'll hardly ever be here.
> .


If you're on vacation you don't get residency. 

In general business are considered resident in the place control is exercised. I'm too lazy and my Spanish way too weak so somebody else can check but I'd be surprised if they did things differently in Spain.

IIRC Spain has special rules for tax residency of nationals and their families abroad. You might want to check that you don't get caught under that provision. IOTW not being in Spain isn't a saviour.


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

So the idea would be to fly into one of the countries near Spain and then fly from there to Spain at which point they wouldn't check my passport because it's EU->EU? And then the reverse on the way out of Spain?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I wouldn't count on that.

The Schengen treaty only allows you into the zone for 90 days. The airline is legally responsible to check. Now they don't always but it happens.


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

But I'm allowed to stick around indefinitely if I'm a Spanish resident, right?

If not, what about driving or taking a train between countries?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> But I'm allowed to stick around indefinitely if I'm a Spanish resident, right?
> 
> If not, what about driving or taking a train between countries?


if you're a Spanish resident, yes, you can stick around - & work

what you are proposing is illegal.........the Schengen rules allow you 90 days in the region - then you have to leave for 90 days before you can enter again for 90 days

far better to get the residency - you are one of the few non-EU citizens for whom it's pretty easy - you're married to a Spaniard


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

I would forget about trying to get a US health insurance policy to cover you in Spain or anywhere else in Europe for any length of time.

US health policies are for people living in the US with very limited coverage outside the country (usually emergencies only and no repatriation services)

Also, travel insurance covers you for emergencies/repatriation only and usually have to be taken out in your country of residence.


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> what you are proposing is illegal.........the Schengen rules allow you 90 days in the region - then you have to leave for 90 days before you can enter again for 90 days


If I do get Spanish residency, couldn't I fly into and out of any Schengen country other than Spain without any trouble because I can show them I'm a Spanish resident? From there I can fly into and out of Spain and if the airline wants to check my passport it's no problem because I can show them I'm a Spanish resident. The idea here is to avoid my residency being invalidated because I've been gone from Spain for over 6 months. I think the way to do that is to avoid flying to or from Spain from any non-Schengen country.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> If I do get Spanish residency, couldn't I fly into and out of any Schengen country other than Spain without any trouble because I can show them I'm a Spanish resident? From there I can fly into and out of Spain and if the airline wants to check my passport it's no problem because I can show them I'm a Spanish resident. The idea here is to avoid my residency being invalidated because I've been gone from Spain for over 6 months. I think the way to do that is to avoid flying to or from Spain from any non-Schengen country.


yes, you can move pretty much freely once you are resident 8within the terms of the visa) - I thought you meant if you weren't :confused2:

as for not entering Spain from a non-Schenghen country - wouldn't your passport be stamped wherever you went anyway??

it might work - although they might get a bit suspiscious if there was a lot of movement - I don't know

I'm not sure I'd take the chance of violating the conditions of my visa..............


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> as for not entering Spain from a non-Schenghen country - wouldn't your passport be stamped wherever you went anyway??


So if you fly from France to Spain or Spain to France, Spain stamps your passport? I thought it was up to the airline to verify your eligibility/legality when traveling between Schengen countries? If Spain doesn't stamp it both ways, I don't see how they could know I was gone over 6 months by looking at my passport.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

expatrocks said:


> If I do get Spanish residency, couldn't I fly into and out of any Schengen country other than Spain without any trouble because I can show them I'm a Spanish resident? From there I can fly into and out of Spain and if the airline wants to check my passport it's no problem because I can show them I'm a Spanish resident. The idea here is to avoid my residency being invalidated because I've been gone from Spain for over 6 months. I think the way to do that is to avoid flying to or from Spain from any non-Schengen country.


I don't think I'd want to risk doing that because at any of the entry points lots of questions might be asked - but you might get away with it. However, you should know that if you are planning to renew your Spanish residency 5 years down the road, one of the things they will ask for is a photocopy of every page of your passport. So they would find out that you'd violated the terms of your residency which would jeopardize it being renewed.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kalohi said:


> I don't think I'd want to risk doing that because at any of the entry points lots of questions might be asked - but you might get away with it. However, you should know that if you are planning to renew your Spanish residency 5 years down the road, one of the things they will ask for is a photocopy of every page of your passport. So they would find out that you'd violated the terms of your residency which would jeopardize it being renewed.


yes, I thought they'd have a way of checking!


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> I don't think I'd want to risk doing that because at any of the entry points lots of questions might be asked


The only way this would be a problem is if I've already stayed over 90 days and either:

a) a Schengen country other than Spain invalidates my Spanish residency flying between the Schengen country and a non-Schengen country
b) an airline invalidates my Spanish residency flying between Schengen countries

Both of those seem pretty unlikely, but I suppose anything is possible.



> However, you should know that if you are planning to renew your Spanish residency 5 years down the road, one of the things they will ask for is a photocopy of every page of your passport. So they would find out that you'd violated the terms of your residency which would jeopardize it being renewed.


Staying in Spain for 6/12 months for the next 5 years isn't a possibility for us. It would be better to come and go via this method for the next 5 years than to be subject to the 90/180 days limit over the next 5 years. After 5 years, I'm in the same position either way.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Can I ask why all the effort?

If you're out of the country for six months how much good does the residency do you? Unless you're in the health system you won't get any of the related health travel docs S1 etc. If you stay in an other EU country your wife will have to apply for residency .

Why not let it lapse and refile when you come back?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> Staying in Spain for 6/12 months for the next 5 years isn't a possibility for us. It would be better to come and go via this method for the next 5 years than to be subject to the 90/180 days limit over the next 5 years. After 5 years, I'm in the same position either way.



Your wife is EU right? She gets residency in any EU country and you can stay with her. The visa requirements wouldn't apply within that country.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> The only way this would be a problem is if I've already stayed over 90 days and either:
> 
> a) a Schengen country other than Spain invalidates my Spanish residency flying between the Schengen country and a non-Schengen country
> b) an airline invalidates my Spanish residency flying between Schengen countries
> ...


I don't know if it's just me that's confused but...........

the 90 days thing only applies if you're NOT resident - & it's the entire Schengen region & they even communicate with the UK - banned in Schengen can cause problems in the UK I understand.......& airlines DO co-operate (they have to) & people DO get banned

you have a choice to make

leave after 90 days & don't come back for another 90 days

or get the residency in Spain & never leave for more than 6 months


or a 3rd choice - forget Europe/the Schengen region completely until you're ready to settle


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Your wife is EU right? She gets residency in any EU country and you can stay with her. The visa requirements wouldn't apply within that country.


yes, his wife is Spanish

the visa he could get apparently requires not leaving Spain for more than 6 months at a time

Expedición y vigencia del certificado de registro y de la tarjeta de residencia - Ministerio del Interior


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Is that a visa or just how he would register for residency?

I understand he isn't supposed to leave for more then six months but nothing stops him leaving and getting a new one on return.

There isn't a limit on entries is there?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Is that a visa or just how he would register for residency?
> 
> I understand he isn't supposed to leave for more then six months but nothing stops him leaving and getting a new one.
> 
> There isn't a limit on entries is there?


he would get a 5 year residency visa as the spouse/family member of a Spanish citizen - it's not automatic that he'd get it in the first place, but unlikely that he would be refused

one condition is that he doesn't leave for more than 6 months a year - if he was caught breaking that condition the visa very likely would be revoked and there's a really good chance he'd be refused on re-application

I don't think I'd take the chance myself


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> one condition is that he doesn't leave for more than 6 months a year - if he was caught breaking that condition the visa very likely would be revoked and there's a really good chance he'd be refused on re-application
> 
> f


That makes it sound like the spouse of a Spanish national has less rights then any other EU spouse. I can't imagine that's true.

An EU national's spouse could get residence. Give it up. Come back. Get residence. Assuming an EU national meets the income and other requirements it's all covered by the freedom of movement right. 

I'm not suggesting he tries to hide the fact. I'm talking about being very up front about it. 

The only advantage I can see for him maintaining residence is after five years he can apply for a permanent residence status. But if he has no plans to live full time in Spain what's the point?


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## Bfpijuan (Apr 6, 2011)

Did they change the rules again for American spouse of a Spaniard? When I came over in 2008 no visa for me. Could not even apply for one!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bfpijuan said:


> Did they change the rules again for American spouse of a Spaniard? When I came over in 2008 no visa for me. Could not even apply for one!


Spain changes its rules every 5 minutes LOL. But a lot has changed since 2008 - even for EU citizens

Jo xxx


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> one condition is that he doesn't leave for more than 6 months a year - if he was caught breaking that condition the visa very likely would be revoked and there's a really good chance he'd be refused on re-application


Admittedly it was several years ago, but they explained to me that if I ever decided to give up my Spanish residency it had to be done through official channels. There are forms to be filled out and papers to be turned in for it to be done legally. What they don't want us to do is to just up and leave. So the OP could get his Spanish residency and then officially renounce it at any time before the 5 years are up. But in that case he'd have to go through the residency application process from scratch upon returning to Spain to reside again.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Spain changes its rules every 5 minutes LOL. But a lot has changed since 2008 - even for EU citizens
> 
> Jo xxx


heck - a lot has changed in the past few months


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> If you're out of the country for six months how much good does the residency do you?


The other 6.  Without residency it's 3 months maximum.



> If you stay in an other EU country your wife will have to apply for residency


This won't happen but I'm curious. As an EU citizen, my wife can't be in another Schengen country for more than 3 months?



> Why not let it lapse and refile when you come back?


The residency process is nasty here. I want to go through it as infrequently as possible.



> Your wife is EU right? She gets residency in any EU country and you can stay with her. The visa requirements wouldn't apply within that country.


I sure thought so.



> That makes it sound like the spouse of a Spanish national has less rights then any other EU spouse. I can't imagine that's true.
> 
> An EU national's spouse could get residence. Give it up. Come back. Get residence. Assuming an EU national meets the income and other requirements it's all covered by the freedom of movement right.


That sounds great to me and it's what I expected. Do you know of any documentation online which states this? How can I look into it? We've been to government offices in Spain and we were told it's either a 3-month tourist visa or residency.



> The only advantage I can see for him maintaining residence is after five years he can apply for a permanent residence status. But if he has no plans to live full time in Spain what's the point?


I'd love to do that just because I can imagine there would be fewer restrictions and obligations.

The whole point of all this is to allow me to be in Spain with my Spanish wife for more than 3 months at a time. I'd also like to avoid going through the residency process every time.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> That sounds great to me and it's what I expected. Do you know of any documentation online which states this? How can I look into it? We've been to government offices in Spain and we were told it's either a 3-month tourist visa or residency.
> 
> .


But that doesn't mean you have to stay in country.

Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States



> Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied. They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.
> 
> For stays of less than three months, the only requirement on Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.


Your wife can go any place in the EU. But in many if she intends to stay longer then three months she'll face a similar process to what you're facing for residency.


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> But that doesn't mean you have to stay in country.


I'm not quite sure what you mean here.



> Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied.





> They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.


These two statements seem contradictory. Anyway, does this boil down to me needing residency to stay in Spain longer than 3 months?



> Your wife can go any place in the EU. But in many if she intends to stay longer then three months she'll face a similar process to what you're facing for residency.


What if she wants to stay in another EU country for 4 months? That's over 3 months so she would need residency, and residency (at least in Spain) requires you to stay for 6 out of 12 months. So stays of longer than 3 months and less than 6 months are illegal?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes - any EU citizen who wishes to be in another EU country for more than 90 is supposed to register as resident - although she has the freedom to come & go as she pleases 

I'm not sure how that would work for you - yes, you have to stay in Spain for 6 months in 12 - but as to other countries, I don't know


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

What confuses me about that is any length of time between 3 and 6 months. She can't stay longer than 3 months in another EU country without residency, and she can't stay less than 6 months in another EU country with residency (if their residency obligations are like Spain's). So is it illegal for her to be in another EU country for any length of time between 3 and 6 months?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> What confuses me about that is any length of time between 3 and 6 months. She can't stay longer than 3 months in another EU country without residency, and she can't stay less than 6 months in another EU country with residency (if their residency obligations are like Spain's). So is it illegal for her to be in another EU country for any length of time between 3 and 6 months?


no - *she*, as an EU citizen can come and go as much & as often as she pleases - the only requirement is to register if you stay in one country (not Spain, since she is Spanish) for more than 90 days - then she can stay forever if she likes or leave at 91 days (though she wouldn't bother registering for just one day, I'm sure)

however, apparently *you*, going by the link earlier in the thread - would have to stay in Spain for 6 months in every 12 as a condition of the residency visa you could/would get


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> These two statements seem contradictory. Anyway, does this boil down to me needing residency to stay in Spain longer than 3 months?
> 
> 
> What if she wants to stay in another EU country for 4 months? That's over 3 months so she would need residency, and residency (at least in Spain) requires you to stay for 6 out of 12 months. So stays of longer than 3 months and less than 6 months are illegal?


I don't think the second one applies to US citizens. Some nationalities need a visa for less then 90 days or in extreme cases even to use the airport to transit. People from these nations would need a visa. US citizens don't need to apply for a visa for short stays.

On the 3+ months she would have to check the country. Italy doesn't force EU nationals to get residence. But if they don't they face various issues. I think France is similar. But you can't stay without her getting residence.


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## expatrocks (Jan 16, 2012)

> no - she, as an EU citizen can come and go as much & as often as she pleases - the only requirement is to register if you stay in one country (not Spain, since she is Spanish) for more than 90 days - then she can stay forever if she likes or leave at 91 days (though she wouldn't bother registering for just one day, I'm sure)


So there is generally more than one type of residency in each country? Residency for EU citizens and residency for non-EU citizens? If not, and if that country has residency obligations similar to those of Spain, then she can't stay over 90 days and less than 6 months based on the info provided here.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatrocks said:


> So there is generally more than one type of residency in each country? Residency for EU citizens and residency for non-EU citizens? If not, and if that country has residency obligations similar to those of Spain, then she can't stay over 90 days and less than 6 months based on the info provided here.


NO!! 

unless you are talking non-EU countries

*she, as an EU citizen can stay in an EU country for as long as she wants* - the only requirement being she registers her presence after 90 days & fulfils any requirements the individual country has

*the 6 months applies only to you*, as a non-EU spouse of an EU citizen (when you get residency in Spain) - & that has nothing to do with how long you can stay in any country -* it is how long you can stay out of Spain*

but YES - there are two kinds of residency rules


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