# Free standing Gas heaters



## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

Everyone. Thinking of investing in a free standing gas heater of the type with the gas bottle inside it. Are they safe to use indoors with minimum ventilation? Bit worried about the fumes as a similar system I use in my camper requires ventilation.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

DonMarco said:


> Everyone. Thinking of investing in a free standing gas heater of the type with the gas bottle inside it. Are they safe to use indoors with minimum ventilation? Bit worried about the fumes as a similar system I use in my camper requires ventilation.


Usually there is enough oxygen in a house but if the door to the room is closed, the oxygen can get used up and the fire will go out eventually but the lack of oxygen plus the build up of carbon monoxide may kill you first. The other problem is the burning of butane/propane produces water making rooms, where they are used, damp.


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

I've been using our free standing gas heater for several years in this apartment with no (noticeable) side affects or dampness. It warms the apartment within half an hour then it's turned down to minimum. 

Buy a carbon monoxide alarms at the same time as a precaution. 

Steve


----------



## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

tebo53 said:


> I've been using our free standing gas heater for several years in this apartment with no (noticeable) side affects or dampness. It warms the apartment within half an hour then it's turned down to minimum.
> 
> Buy a carbon monoxide alarms at the same time as a precaution.
> 
> Steve


Good point.

What are these things called in spanish? Calentadores just brings up water heaters on the Leroy Merlin website.


----------



## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

I run my dehumidifiers from October until about May; the gas fires will produce as much water as they use gas! I also have a carbon monoxide detector as well as a smoke detector. 

Davexf


----------



## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

baldilocks said:


> Usually there is enough oxygen in a house but if the door to the room is closed, the oxygen can get used up and the fire will go out eventually but the lack of oxygen plus the build up of carbon monoxide may kill you first. The other problem is the burning of butane/propane produces water making rooms, where they are used, damp.


I'm not thinking of going to sleep with it on, its simply to take the chill off for an hour in the morning and evening.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> I've been using our free standing gas heater for several years in this apartment with no (noticeable) side affects or dampness. It warms the apartment within half an hour then it's turned down to minimum.
> 
> Buy a carbon monoxide alarms at the same time as a precaution.
> 
> Steve


I suppose it depends on the building. We put one on a long landing which was already feeling damp. At one end was a large fitted wardrobe. After about a week all the walls started to turn black and the clothes in the wardrobe smelt vile. It was during one of those Spanish wet seasons and it had rained heavy most days.


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

My cousin had one and it affected my breathing. But I have asthma. 

You wouldn't use a propane BBQ indoors. They're no safer. The other thing is the gas isn't exactly cheap. If you have any other options I'd look at those first.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DonMarco said:


> Good point.
> 
> What are these things called in spanish? Calentadores just brings up water heaters on the Leroy Merlin website.


 Estufa de gas
https://www.leroymerlin.es/calefaccion-y-climatizacion/estufas/estufas-de-gas


----------



## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

NickZ said:


> My cousin had one and it affected my breathing. But I have asthma.
> 
> You wouldn't use a propane BBQ indoors. They're no safer. The other thing is the gas isn't exactly cheap. If you have any other options I'd look at those first.


Whats cheaper than Gas? Here in Andalucia Pellets and logs are expensive and so is electricity.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

DonMarco said:


> Whats cheaper than Gas? Here in Andalucia Pellets and logs are expensive and so is electricity.


At 110€ per tonne cut to length, delivered and stacked in a store two flights of stairs lower than the road, logs are cheap by comparison with anything else.


----------



## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

Can I just say, carbon monoxide is only generated when you have incomplete combustion. (eg. a motor vehicle). The estefa de gas does have complete combustion, therefore it generates carbon dioxide, which is less toxic than carbon monoxide, which bonds to your red blood cells.

And, gas is cheaper than pellets and logs (if you have to buy them). We have recently purchased a free standing gas heater and use it to take the chill out of the room, (evenings only at the moment).


----------



## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

Mforster said:


> Can I just say, carbon monoxide is only generated when you have incomplete combustion. (eg. a motor vehicle). The estefa de gas does have complete combustion, therefore it generates carbon dioxide, which is less toxic than carbon monoxide, which bonds to your red blood cells.
> 
> And, gas is cheaper than pellets and logs (if you have to buy them). We have recently purchased a free standing gas heater and use it to take the chill out of the room, (evenings only at the moment).


Snap!!!!


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

My new heat pump is rated to use I think 360kw/h per winter heating season (Mild weather zone. 650 for average European) for heating. It's big enough for 40 sq meters or something. 

It's not a cheap unit to buy but energy costs aren't very high.


----------



## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

I've recently given up on burning dead trees after reading about the rather frightening effects this has on indoor pollution levels. I'm using air conditioners turned to the heat setting. People seem to have a hard time accepting how economical (and green) this is.


----------



## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

The simple answer to your original question is no, they are not safe. They can be managed to mitigate the hazards, but the best way to mitigate a hazard is to eliminate it. Beyond the concern of the hazardous emissions is the fact that the gas itself can create a dangerous atmosphere. A leak to an ignition source, or simply a leak that displaces all your oxygen in the middle of the night can both lead to bad endings. The absolute safe path here is to keep such heaters on the patio.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We always used a butano gas heater in our old house and had no problems with it causing condensation (but the downstairs layout of the house was very open plan so it wasn't being used in one room with the door closed). When we applied for our gas contract an inspector made a visit and insisted that we put a ventilation grille in our front door (I was none too pleased because they were nice old double wooden doors and I had just spent literally weeks stripping, sanding and restaining them). Safety first, though.

I had expected much higher bills when we moved into our new property which is all electric (we use inverter air conditioning for heating in the winter, it's needed for cooling in the summer on only a handful of days). However, taking into account the fact that I'm not now buying 10 gas bottles per year, the bills are working out much the same.


----------



## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Lynn R said:


> We always used a butano gas heater in our old house and had no problems with it causing condensation (but the downstairs layout of the house was very open plan so it wasn't being used in one room with the door closed). When we applied for our gas contract an inspector made a visit and insisted that we put a ventilation grille in our front door (I was none too pleased because they were nice old double wooden doors and I had just spent literally weeks stripping, sanding and restaining them). Safety first, though.
> 
> I had expected much higher bills when we moved into our new property which is all electric (we use inverter air conditioning for heating in the winter, it's needed for cooling in the summer on only a handful of days). However, taking into account the fact that I'm not now buying 10 gas bottles per year, the bills are working out much the same.


Thank you for sharing, thats so good to know


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Bodega said:


> The simple answer to your original question is no, they are not safe. They can be managed to mitigate the hazards, but the best way to mitigate a hazard is to eliminate it. Beyond the concern of the hazardous emissions is the fact that the gas itself can create a dangerous atmosphere. A leak to an ignition source, or simply a leak that displaces all your oxygen in the middle of the night can both lead to bad endings. The absolute safe path here is to keep such heaters on the patio.



What absolute scaremongering tosh!!!

These type of space heaters have been around for donkeys years and never been party to any "major" news stories about gassing people or causing explosions etc....

Super sir type gas heaters are an economical and effective way to heat spaces and depending on how those spaces are created dampness might or might not accure. 

Outlets such as 'Leroy Merlin and 'Carrefour' amongst many would not waste selling space if bottled gas heaters didn't sell at a fairly steady pace.

It is however, recommended to have these appliances serviced at regular intervals. 

Steve


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Turtles said:


> I've recently given up on burning dead trees after reading about the rather frightening effects this has on indoor pollution levels. I'm using air conditioners turned to the heat setting. People seem to have a hard time accepting how economical (and green) this is.


 By "burning dead trees" I presume you mean logs(don't know if I'm missing some reference here). I have a log fire, so I'm interested to know what you have read about "indoor pollution levels"...
Air air conditioners ecological? I didn't know. Eco compared to what?


----------



## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

Just good old fireplaces is what I mean. I know they look nice, but it seems they're pretty bad for you. Pellet burners might be somewhat better.

https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/indoor-particulate-matter#indoor_pm


Aircon is the only form of heating that is more than 100% efficient in terms of heat output vs energy input. This is because it is using electricity to collect heat from outside your house, concentrate it, and then spray it into your living room. Any other form is trying to warm you up using the energy source directly. Inevitably, much is lost in the process.

It's also worth pointing out that electricity from the grid, which is derived from nuclear, wind, solar, gas, coal etc produces far less CO2 on average than gas burnt directly in your home or in a power station.

https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=false&solar=false&page=country&countryCode=ES&remote=true

At the time of writing, the above shows that the Spanish grid is producing 218g of CO2 per Kw/h, whereas the gas component produces 490g.


----------



## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

tebo53 said:


> What absolute scaremongering tosh!!!
> 
> Wow...that’s pretty harsh. The OP asked for opinions and I offered one, which, apparently doesn’t line up with yours. As I said, the hazards these heaters might present can be mitigated,but, as with all tools, the safest route is to use the tool as it was designed to be used. These heaters were designed for use on the patio.


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Bodega said:


> tebo53 said:
> 
> 
> > What absolute scaremongering tosh!!!
> ...


----------



## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

tebo53 said:


> Bodega said:
> 
> 
> > The "Super Sir" style of gas heaters were around years and years ago well before patios were popular especially in the UK. Who but the rich had a patio? I disagree with your last statement "These heaters were designed for use on the patio"
> ...


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Turtles said:


> Just good old fireplaces is what I mean. I know they look nice, but it seems they're pretty bad for you. Pellet burners might be somewhat better.
> 
> https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/indoor-particulate-matter#indoor_pm
> 
> ...


 Our fire uses a closed in casette, as many in Spain and probably in the UK, do. There are vents upstairs though.
I don't understand this bit...


> Aircon is the only form of heating that is more than 100% efficient in terms of heat output vs energy input. This is because it is using electricity to collect heat from outside your house, concentrate it, and then spray it into your living room.


What heat outside my house? Unbelievably I had ice on the windscreen one day this week! In winter it's often below zero. Where is the heat outside my home?


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Even when it's that cold there is enough heat that a heat pump can work. Problem is many of the lower priced models aren't really designed to work in temperatures that low. 

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/publications/efficiency/heating-heat-pump/6827


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Bodega said:


> I beg your pardon. When first reading the OP, when seeing the limited description, my thoughts went to a heater like I have, like the one pictured here, which is designed for a patio. You seem to know of what you speak, so I did my research. I’m certainly not above admitting when I’ve gone down the wrong path. My concerns were of a heater unlike the one referenced by you and the OP. Thank you for aiding in my late life education.


Thanks, no problem. Glad it's cleared up.

Steve


----------



## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

Bodega said:


> I beg your pardon. When first reading the OP, when seeing the limited description, my thoughts went to a heater like I have, like the one pictured here, which is designed for a patio. You seem to know of what you speak, so I did my research. I’m certainly not above admitting when I’ve gone down the wrong path. My concerns were of a heater unlike the one referenced by you and the OP. Thank you for aiding in my late life education.


Good heavens no, that certainly isn't the type of heater I was talking about. I would agree that is defo a patio heater unless its fitted with a waving peace of cloth.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We've used an estufa (propane) for many years and never had a problem. It's certainly the most economical form of heating, a €12 bombona lasts about 3 weeks for around four hours a day. We have an open staircase so there aren't ventilation issues, but I'd think twice about using it in an unventilated room because of condensation.

The law says they have to have a safety check every five years, like all gas appliances.


----------

