# $100,000/year ?



## jerome michallat (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi,
I have an interview for a job based in brisbane.
I ve been reading threads, but still can' t figure out how I d do living in Brisbane with that kind of income.
I am single man, mid 30s .
Could that compare to say £70,000/year gross in the UK in terms of life style ?

Cheers,
Jerome.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2012)

When trying to figure out what wage you need in Australia to compare to your now UK wage you need to multiply your UK wage by 2.5. Dont use the current exchange rate as that does not take into account the higher cost of living in Australia, the 2.5 does. 

But for a single man thats a pretty decent wage!


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## jerome michallat (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Shel !

Do you mean that for the equivalent life style in Australia I need to multiply 70,000x2.5 
?
In other words, in order to be able to afford the equivalent an income of $175,000 is required in Australia ?

It seems a lot, though I understand that life down under is expensive.

Cheers,

Jerome.


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## Zultan (Aug 4, 2009)

jerome michallat said:


> Hi Shel !
> 
> Do you mean that for the equivalent life style in Australia I need to multiply 70,000x2.5
> ?
> ...


Yes, that is what Shel is saying. If you earn £70K in the UK, to feel comparibly well off in Australia you'd need to be earning between 2.2 - 2.5 times that amount in $AUD.

To give another comparison, the UK average salary is £25K. So £70K is roughly 3 times the UK average. In Australia, the average salary is $60K. So to be earning 3 times the average your salary would need to be $180K in Aus.


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## Mary of kernow (Feb 15, 2012)

So, having been terrified by this,I've been wondering where in oz is the average place to live? Im trying to apply this to Perth...where would Perth outer suburbs fall into this above average, not as far above as Brisbane, Sydney or the cbd in Perth but more than rural areas I guess. I'm finding it really tough to work out equivalent $ to £ needed. We have an after tax of £350000 plus vehicles, fuel and phones. Mind you, we live in cornwall where the houses and fuel are expensive, but other things, like eating out can be quite cheap. What's the equivalent income for Perth suburbs?


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## Mary of kernow (Feb 15, 2012)

Mary of kernow said:


> So, having been terrified by this,I've been wondering where in oz is the average place to live? Im trying to apply this to Perth...where would Perth outer suburbs fall into this above average, not as far above as Brisbane, Sydney or the cbd in Perth but more than rural areas I guess. I'm finding it really tough to work out equivalent $ to £ needed. We have an after tax of £350000 plus vehicles, fuel and phones. Mind you, we live in cornwall where the houses and fuel are expensive, but other things, like eating out can be quite cheap. What's the equivalent income for Perth suburbs?


Typo! £35000, like I'd be asking on £350000!!!!!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

Mary of kernow said:


> Typo! £35000, like I'd be asking on £350000!!!!!


hey why not? you never know


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## JBY (May 17, 2011)

jerome michallat said:


> Hi,
> I have an interview for a job based in brisbane.
> I ve been reading threads, but still can' t figure out how I d do living in Brisbane with that kind of income.
> I am single man, mid 30s .
> ...


You'd do really well with $100,000 in Brisbane, but i can see you are already earning v well in the UK , so over $100,000 its not really worth it. Unless you really don't like it in the UK and you want to move out.


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## TheHoff (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi JBY, we are coming to Brisbane on a 457 visa, will be there on the 7th of March. I will be earning 90,000 a year and need to support my hubby and toddler, we are middle if the road kind of people. It's really worrying me now that it's all come together if this is enough for us. We are coming from South Africa and looking for a better way of life so a couple of sacrifices are expected, from this thread I am surmising $90k is a good salary. What do you think?


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## Buccaneer Joe (Mar 21, 2012)

We were making between $85k -$100k in the States and to have the same lifestyle in Brisbane it will take at least $200K in income to come close. Costs are double for almost everything. The plus is there are quite a few high wage positions posted so we will see if the move was a good decision in short order. The numbers do not include extra costs we will now have like travelling back home for visits and the calls to the US. So when an earlier post said 2.5 times to be comparable they are pretty spot on.

Cheers,

Joe


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## gares (Mar 1, 2012)

The best way to find out the cost of living for a given individual is to make a detailed list of monthly expenses such as house rent, transportation, individual items of necessity such as how many kgs of chicken, rice, sugar etc. Then search on the internet for companies selling the products in the area and look for prices on their websites. This will give you the BEST insight. Hope this helps.


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## Jayceee (Feb 5, 2012)

Buccaneer Joe said:


> We were making between $85k -$100k in the States and to have the same lifestyle in Brisbane it will take at least $200K in income to come close. Costs are double for almost everything. The plus is there are quite a few high wage positions posted so we will see if the move was a good decision in short order. The numbers do not include extra costs we will now have like travelling back home for visits and the calls to the US. So when an earlier post said 2.5 times to be comparable they are pretty spot on.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Joe


There's more to life than cost of living.

Nobody from the USA moves to Australia for a better cost of living, they do it because we have a better cost of lifestyle.

I've worked in the USA, the cost of government and government services are funded by sovereign debt.

In Australia they're funded by tax, not the Communist Chinese Government. Which means we get some of the best service delivery possible, our education system is the best in the world apart from Finland.

In the USA cost of healthcare is covered by employers giving employers control over one of the most important aspects of a persons life.

And if you need to use it the decision on what treatments you can have is not made on whats best for your condition, it's made by some faceless man or woman in a HBO on a cost benefit analysis of what's best for them not you.

You have to keep working till you drop dead or you have no access to healthcare or life saving drugs. That's why community minded businesses like Costco employ "greeters" in their eighties. 

In Australia we have a universal healthcare system who's resources are deployed on a need basis, and we pay a modest 1.5 % tax for it if you have a job, if your unlucky enough to lose your job it's free.

In the USA the cost of third level education is prohibitive. President Obama was recently called a "Snob" for saying he believed all American kids should have access to third level education.

In Australia we have universal access to third level education for all who want it.

In the USA I got 10 days leave a year, and sick days had to come out of that too, in Australia I get 35 days leave and sick pay, plus 10 public holidays. 

I could go on....

All of which means that in Australia I got to see my kids grow up, they got a third level education and I didn't have to take out a second mortgage to fund it. So I've always been able to work to live, rather than live to work. If I get a serious illness it won't mean financial ruin and I won't have a heart attack through stress. I can retire with a decent lifestyle when I'm ready and still young enough to be active and enjoy life.

As I say to my friends in the USA;

If you want to live the American dream...move to Australia !


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## nowhereKid (Feb 5, 2012)

Jaycee,
I wish I could shake your hand over the internet because that's an awesome summary of how I feel about thing in the US. Many of the reasons why I decided to leave.
Cheers


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

You need a minimum of $AU5000 per month to be able to keep a modest roof over your head, afford utilities and basic groceries...if you want to travel, eat out, entertain etc, you need twice that! That's why so many of "us Aussies" are making the move to Europe!


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## nowhereKid (Feb 5, 2012)

KimMii said:


> You need a minimum of $AU5000 per month to be able to keep a modest roof over your head, afford utilities and basic groceries...if you want to travel, eat out, entertain etc, you need twice that! That's why so many of "us Aussies" are making the move to Europe!


Mind breaking down how Rent+Utilities+Groceries runs you $5000? If you're right I have grossly misunderstood costs in Australia.
Cheers


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

The worst thing anyone can do is put on a pair of rose-colored glasses and think Australia or anywhere else for that matter will solve all of your problems, and that things will be so much better in the new country. It's all give and take. You lose some and you win some.


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## nowhereKid (Feb 5, 2012)

stormgal said:


> The worst thing anyone can do is put on a pair of rose-colored glasses and think Australia or anywhere else for that matter will solve all of your problems, and that things will be so much better in the new country. It's all give and take. You lose some and you win some.


Agreed, but I'm sure a fact-based discussion on pros,cons,similarities and differences (which is what I think we're having here) is beneficial? Not sure who/what you're referring to regarding the overly optimistic outlook 
I've been on this forum a few months and there seems to be a good amount of discussion about both the pros and the cons, correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

nowhereKid said:


> Agreed, but I'm sure a fact-based discussion on pros,cons,similarities and differences (which is what I think we're having here) is beneficial? Not sure who/what you're referring to regarding the overly optimistic outlook
> I've been on this forum a few months and there seems to be a good amount of discussion about both the pros and the cons, correct me if I'm wrong.
> Cheers!


Well, take for instance, the "Chinese Communist" statement that was made. It's give and take - Australia is also dependent on China. If China were to stop buying from Oz, things wouldn't look good for the Australian economy either. 

Healthcare is "free" but at the cost of the taxpayer. For instance, tax is almost 40% of your paycheck. That's a lot of money. So you wind up paying for your healthcare as you go along. This is not to say that I agree with the way the US has their healthcare set up, but just pointing out differences. 

If I moved to Oz and then 5 years later, I got very sick, it is true that Centrelink will probably pay for my healthcare benefits. However.... who will pay my $500- $1000 a week rent, my car payments, high electric bills and groceries? Is there a maximum benefit that I will be allowed, or will I have to move out of my place (thus lowering my quality of life)? I believe that the real winner will be the homeowner who had finished paying their mortgage. But realistically, who can afford to move to Oz and buy a home straight off the bat? 

I agree with the education comments - education is very expensive but it's the same case in Europe. The more people come to Australia on those student visa's to study, the higher the cost of its education will be. It's all about "supply and demand" - that's all it really is. My personal experience - at one point, I was interested in studying at MBS (Melbourne School of Business), and I remember my costs would have been equal to that of an equally prestigious school in the US. So I'm still unsure how an Aussie education is less expensive, but maybe there's a trick I don't know about?

With that being said, I don't' think Europe is better than Australia. Europe is now going through its famous austerity measures to pay for its bankruptcies, and each country within the union is falling financially like dominoes. I think whatever small recovery Europe is going through at the moment is only temporary.


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## onlyassignments (Aug 22, 2011)

very well said, stormgal.


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## nowhereKid (Feb 5, 2012)

stormgal said:


> Well, take for instance, the "Chinese Communist" statement that was made. It's give and take - Australia is also dependent on China. If China were to stop buying from Oz, things wouldn't look good for the Australian economy either.
> 
> Healthcare is "free" but at the cost of the taxpayer. For instance, tax is almost 40% of your paycheck. That's a lot of money. So you wind up paying for your healthcare as you go along. This is not to say that I agree with the way the US has their healthcare set up, but just pointing out differences.
> 
> ...


Good points stormgal. Couple of things:
I would rather live in a country where I'm not always one disease away from bankruptcy, the hit it takes on a paycheck is a lifestyle choice many would make. I think a lot of us in the US would like to see something similar, but politics here..that's another discussion altogether 
University education costs are not very low in Australia but PR holders pay a pretty reasonable amount I would say, much like a lot of State schools in the US. However, the public school system is a lot better. Most of us who are looking to start families or have young kids already will benefit significantly in this regard. Reference
Regarding your point about 'what happens when I get sick and cannot work', I don't think there's many places in the world that will insure you against not working for an extended period of time. Costs of living are high, so are minimum wages, that's why the standard of living is still this good. Unemployment is still half of what we have in the US, your chances of getting back into the job market are a lot higher and even flipping burgers will ensure you can maintain a modest living at worst. All things considered, I don't know how Australia is anything but better.
Europe is shaky at best, waiting to see what things are like there once the dust settles! This has been a very interesting discussion, thanks!
-nK


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

Coming from India, these notional cost-of-living figures scare the hell out of me. I wonder what the Australian equivalent of an Indian annual salary of Rs. 20 Lakhs would be.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## nowhereKid (Feb 5, 2012)

bangalg said:


> Coming from India, these notional cost-of-living figures scare the hell out of me. I wonder what the Australian equivalent of an Indian annual salary of Rs. 20 Lakhs would be.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


I think the economies of India and Australia are so different that finding that kind of equivalence is going to be hard. The cost of living figures scare me a bit as well, even as compared to the US.
I think the best we can do is to see where we spend our money on a monthly/yearly basis and see what equivalent services/goods cost there


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

Interesting discussion about the comparison of cost of living.

But can we really say one country is better? For instance the discussion was trying to compare how Australia is better than US. However, look at the size of the US and Australia. The US has a bigger population, more states, trying to maintain equality,etc. Yes, the US is in debt which probably could have been avoided if expenses were better managed and a whole list of items. But then think about money spent to send military to help fight wars in other countries. Does the US ever really need to send their own military to fight other countries' wars? No, but there is an expectation in the world that the US should because people think they have the biggest military force,etc. and for whatever reason.

I don't know anything about the Australian military and how many troops they send abroad to help fight wars or keep peace. But it's probably not as much so Australia may not spend as much on military expenses abroad. More probably to protect their country.

I would agree that there is more to life than cost of living. However, bottom line is.. you need to have money in order to live the life you want to have. We all have different views of what the perfect life would be. But I'm assuming as long as we can have the basic necessities and that would now include internet access and cell phone. Do we really need internet access and a cell phone? Probably not but it's so much part of our lives now that we have to pay for these. Then there is travel,etc. 

In Australia, it was commented that if someone loses their job, healthcare would be covered. But how long does that last? 

If cost of living wasn't so important, why are the people that have moved to Australia to make it a permanent move going back to the country they are from? The most common complaint that I've read was that they were not making enough money in order to pay for all the expenses. We can't assume that each of these individuals were living extravagantly. I'm sure it's because they didn't have enough money left to save or not enough to pay the bills and it was stressing them out.

Yes, it's true that as Americans we probably will have to work until we retire to continue getting medical health care because most employers do pay a major portion of the monthly health care insurance. Depending on the health care plan, we have to pay a certain deductible per year. After that, health care would be paid for and it varies due to the different health care plans. But in my case, my employer gives us money to cover all for an individual or a portion for a family towards the yearly health care deductible. Most of the health care treatment that I have requested, I had never had any issue with hospitals, doctors, or medical procedures that I needed to get done. For the most part, people get what they need done. The issues that make it on the news is mostly with health care insurance companies not wanting to pay for certain procedures,etc. But once we reach the retirement age, Americans are put on medicare which is probably how the Australian medical system is currently set up. The advantage in Australia is that they can use it a lot earlier and not wait until retirement age.

As for vacation days. The way it works is you have to work so many years in the company and will increase depending when that yr mark will be reached. Each company may have different policies. If you worked a certain amt of years with a company, you can end up with getting at least 20-25 days(or more depending on the company). Plus, the public holidays and in some companies, the whole Christmas shutdown Dec. 24-Jan 1 off.

What I can just say is that for a $100,000 in the US, you can probably afford a house right away and be able to pay other bills. But from what I've been reading about comments from people currently living in Australia, this is not so easy due higher price of houses. This is without doing any type of exchange rate of the AUD with US dollar. Just $100,000 comparison and what a person can afford in each country.

Something I could not find in the internet or discussion in this forum was, why are the Australians that were born or grew up in Australia leaving? Based on the immigration website, there is a skills shortage. If people are commenting that Australia is better, then why would there be a reason to leave? 

Yes, it would be nice to not work so much and enjoy life. But the reality is, we all need to work in not only being able to pay for cost of living for ourselves now, but for the future. Once you retire or can no longer work, you must have enough financial funds in order to pay for things when you no longer have semi monthly/monthly funds coming in. Even if your medical care is covered to a certain point, I have read even in Australia they are suggesting that people get additional private insurance for things that are not covered. If people are fortunate enough to get paid very well with high salaries - executive level, doctors, etc., then it probably wouldn't matter if you lived in Australia or US. You will likely be able to afford more than the avg. local.




_Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccaneer Joe
We were making between $85k -$100k in the States and to have the same lifestyle in Brisbane it will take at least $200K in income to come close. Costs are double for almost everything. The plus is there are quite a few high wage positions posted so we will see if the move was a good decision in short order. The numbers do not include extra costs we will now have like travelling back home for visits and the calls to the US. So when an earlier post said 2.5 times to be comparable they are pretty spot on.

Cheers,

Joe
There's more to life than cost of living.

Nobody from the USA moves to Australia for a better cost of living, they do it because we have a better cost of lifestyle.

I've worked in the USA, the cost of government and government services are funded by sovereign debt.

In Australia they're funded by tax, not the Communist Chinese Government. Which means we get some of the best service delivery possible, our education system is the best in the world apart from Finland.

In the USA cost of healthcare is covered by employers giving employers control over one of the most important aspects of a persons life.

And if you need to use it the decision on what treatments you can have is not made on whats best for your condition, it's made by some faceless man or woman in a HBO on a cost benefit analysis of what's best for them not you.

You have to keep working till you drop dead or you have no access to healthcare or life saving drugs. That's why community minded businesses like Costco employ "greeters" in their eighties. 

In Australia we have a universal healthcare system who's resources are deployed on a need basis, and we pay a modest 1.5 % tax for it if you have a job, if your unlucky enough to lose your job it's free.

In the USA the cost of third level education is prohibitive. President Obama was recently called a "Snob" for saying he believed all American kids should have access to third level education.

In Australia we have universal access to third level education for all who want it.

In the USA I got 10 days leave a year, and sick days had to come out of that too, in Australia I get 35 days leave and sick pay, plus 10 public holidays. 

I could go on....

All of which means that in Australia I got to see my kids grow up, they got a third level education and I didn't have to take out a second mortgage to fund it. So I've always been able to work to live, rather than live to work. If I get a serious illness it won't mean financial ruin and I won't have a heart attack through stress. I can retire with a decent lifestyle when I'm ready and still young enough to be active and enjoy life.

As I say to my friends in the USA;

If you want to live the American dream...move to Australia !_


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## nowhereKid (Feb 5, 2012)

Insightful post. I'm really stumped as to how people enjoy such a high standard of living there if it's as expensive it sounds


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## Jayceee (Feb 5, 2012)

bangalg said:


> Coming from India, these notional cost-of-living figures scare the hell out of me. I wonder what the Australian equivalent of an Indian annual salary of Rs. 20 Lakhs would be.


The average salary PA in Australia based on 2011 figures is;

Average: $72,306
Average Male: $78,286
Average Female: $61,948

Yes I know, the male & female difference is an issue.

Its primarily caused by the poor salaries in the community services sector at present, which is predominately female...but that is about to change and it'll be interesting to see the difference when it does.


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## onlyassignments (Aug 22, 2011)

Very interesting discussion. I truly believe that america does have problem with deficit in the future if its not contained but it is overblown so much. For a country that fought 2 wars and survived bush{no offense to republicans but his fiscal policies are to blame for building up to great recession} USA is not doing bad at all. By looking at economic data it is on the right track, unemployment is going down, hiring has picked up,whereas certain australian states are in recession right now. Australia is booming only in the mining sector. Commodities prices are rising because of demand in china and usa. If USA goes down or even if china, australia will go down, people tend to ignore they are supporting each other to an extent.
I have a relative in UK who unfortunately has chronic disease. It took him 7 months to see a specialist, if that is the state of free healthcare, I would rather work hard and get american health insurance where at least I could get the right care if I can afford it. Cost of living is a big factor in deciding where to live and probably that is the reason I am in usa when I have my PR for australia. I am not saying its unlivable but it should be of concern to people.


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Nowherekid,

I really don't know how people do it either. One of the Australians located in my company's regional office in Australia once told me that, he enjoys life and traveling. Then made a comment that he really doesn't have money left saved over. I guess it can be interpreted that either not much gets saved and enjoying the moment? Worry about what will happen to him later about the future finances?

But I don't think it's common that Australia is just experiencing this. There are states in the US such as NY and California where cost of living is high too. Greatly depends where you live,etc. So it is possible to make the money stretch. Just have to make some sacrifices. For me, the neighborhood where I will live in is very important that I would feel safe and have a peace of mind. So I would likely spend more towards housing. When people say you can survive on such and such amount per month will not always be the case for everyone.


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## Jayceee (Feb 5, 2012)

onlyassignments said:


> . I have a relative in UK who unfortunately has chronic disease. It took him 7 months to see a specialist, if that is the state of free healthcare, I would rather work hard and get american health insurance where at least I could get the right care if I can afford it.


That is absolutely criminal, and says more about the NHS than universal healthcare. That would never happen in Australia because by law if the Public Hospital system can't deal with your issue, in an appropriate time for that condition, you are entitled to be treated in the private system at the expense of the governments expense.

I'm glad that universal healthcare in Australia is not free like the NHS, and I pay for it by a 1.5% levy in my salary.


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Onlyassignments,
I also have a PR visa and haven't made the move because cost of living is a concern. I think most Americans may have known some friends or relatives that were greatly affected by the massive economic layoffs that occurred around 2009. I had two brothers that were laid off but they were fortunately able to find jobs that didn't take that long for them to get. Mostly done with networking. My company was one of those that had layoffs as well and was a very stressful time because it seemed like every group of the organization had to lay someone off. I was fortunate enough to not be laid off and was not affected by the mortgage situation that many Americans went through since I had a fixed mortgage. However, most homeowners are affected because how the value of houses have declined since many people have defaulted on their loans due to reasons like losing their job or interest rate hiking up.

I have heard similar situations about Canada and how some have to wait months to get treatment. Some instances even for heart surgery, Canadians are coming to the US for medical treatment. Maybe these government medical plans are very good for common ailments such as treating cold/flus, preventable treatments,etc. But maybe not for more specialized treatments? I don't know how the Canadian health care system is run and what benefits their citizens get. 

I would rather pay a reasonable amt per month to be able to visit any doctor I want and be able to make an appt to see them as soon as possible.

The US is not perfect. However, if you can make a decent salary, have health insurance, have a home to live in, and money to save for the future, life in the US is not bad. Although many things can be improved. But it becomes difficult when living in a democratic society. A decision made by the President will likely not be liked by some people. Not everyone will be happy with any changes.


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## gares (Mar 1, 2012)

I would like to point out that the OP had asked for a comparison between the UK and Australia. Somehow this thread has derailed into a discussion on America vs Australia.

I would like to further point out that I sometimes feel this forum is chock full of Australia bashing yanks. I don't know what their agenda is, but I can sure as hell say that I am not getting misled by them. Maybe there should be a separate thread for the America vs. Australia debate? Will look forward to it!!!!


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## Pradiprn (Jul 21, 2011)

Jayceee said:


> That is absolutely criminal, and says more about the NHS than universal healthcare. That would never happen in Australia because by law if the Public Hospital system can't deal with your issue, in an appropriate time for that condition, you are entitled to be treated in the private system at the expense of the governments expense.
> 
> I'm glad that universal healthcare in Australia is not free like the NHS, and I pay for it by a 1.5% levy in my salary.


I think it is also pertinent to note that NHS in the UK has been seeing significant cuts and a strong push to privatization by the current government. this has also impacted the services it provides...if one goes by what is published in the newspapers...theres a move towards making the system similar to what exists in US


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## Jayceee (Feb 5, 2012)

Pradiprn said:


> I think it is also pertinent to note that NHS in the UK has been seeing significant cuts and a strong push to privatization by the current government. this has also impacted the services it provides...if one goes by what is published in the newspapers...theres a move towards making the system similar to what exists in US


Agreed !


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## Jayceee (Feb 5, 2012)

gares said:


> I would like to point out that the OP had asked for a comparison between the UK and Australia. Somehow this thread has derailed into a discussion on America vs Australia.
> 
> I would like to further point out that I sometimes feel this forum is chock full of Australia bashing yanks. I don't know what their agenda is, but I can sure as hell say that I am not getting misled by them. Maybe there should be a separate thread for the America vs. Australia debate? Will look forward to it!!!!


I'm sorry you feel like that but these debates go with the flow and this a debate that needs to be had. 

I take offense at comments like "Australia bashing Yanks", I love America and American people, they have been betrayed by their political system and their media who represent the rich.

So please don't judge them on that, Australia has a lot offer them, and they have a lot to offer Australia.

Any American who chooses to live in Australia is very welcome here IMHO and that's why I express the negatives about the USA to try and encourage them to make the break.


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## gares (Mar 1, 2012)

Jayceee said:


> I'm sorry you feel like that but these debates go with the flow and this a debate that needs to be had.
> 
> I take offense at comments like "Australia bashing Yanks", I love America and American people, they have been betrayed by their political system and their media who represent the rich.
> 
> ...


Although I have just joined recently, I have been reading the forum silently for quite some time. Its not just this thread. People will find ways to demean Australia on lots of different threads. And almost always they are veering off topic. If this debate really needs to be held, please start a dedicated thread. I have deliberately held back on this thread because it would be off-topic and this shall be my last post in the thread on this matter. I am sorry if I've offended anyone. Good luck!!!


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

Jayceee said:


> The average salary PA in Australia based on 2011 figures is;
> 
> Average: $72,306
> Average Male: $78,286
> ...


This is an 'average' and it's really NOT realistic...to be honest there aren't many people in Australia who earn more than $60K a year...the 'average' (usually non professional) job starts at about $35K so you can see that there's a considerable 'shortfall' in the figures being provided by the Govt and those actually being received by an 'average working class' person.

Cost of living fluctuates from State to State and City to City. Since being in Europe the 'comparisons' I've been able to use 'most' have been those of the costs of housing, cigarettes, cars and alcohol.

In Australia, you really don't get much more than a shoe box for $400 a week, depending on WHERE you live...to be honest, our last place in Australia was $750 per week. Our daughter and her friend are renting privately through someone who knows someone and have a 2 bedroom, one bathroom unit and they're extremely FORTUNATE to be paying just under $400 a week...normally this place would rent for $550...these are PER WEEK, not per MONTH like much of Europe and the USA. When buying a home, expect to pay around 7% or 8% interest on your home loan...and I haven't seen 'much' in the way of housing under $500,000 for a LONG LONG time (except in rural and outback towns)

A packet of cigarettes in Italy is about 4 Euro and in France about 6 Euro for a pack of 20 cigarettes...in Australia they cost $15+ the average being about $17 for a pack of 25 cigarettes.

A bottle of Chivas Regal costs about 20 Euro in Italy or France...in Australia it's about $60+

The Mercedes A Class starts at 16,000 Euro in Europe...in Australia the bottom of the range, starting price is $45,000

So whilst the 'average wage' may 'read' quite well, the costs don't equate...

I hope this all makes SOME sense!

ALSO, clothing, shoes etc are extremely expensive compared with Europe...and education...whilst they 'call' it free education...there are associated costs...sometimes only $500 a year...but private school education costs $10K-$25K per year.

My daughter did her degree at Bond University which is a private Uni...that cost her roughly $100K...at a 'public' University it would have still cost in the vicinity of $40K


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but the avatar is VERY realistic. Factor in the super and etc and you'll be much better off. 

It's your choice to put your daughter in Bond university and pay a premium. My logic is what's the pint of paying extra $60K if you can save it and get same level or better education in public universities. Obviously if you splash like that on everything life will be expensive. 

I want to study in Harvard but the cost is prohibitive so I studied somewhere else. I didnt cry and shout how "unaffordable " US education system is!

The main point is that you need to look after your finances, be that in US, Australia or Shagri-La. If you are smart income in Australia is more than enough to live a very comfortable life. The plus side you know you'll be looked after in Australia should something unfortunate happen!


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

naoto said:


> The plus side you know you'll be looked after in Australia should something unfortunate happen!


Naoto,
Can you please explain what you meant in the statement above. 

Would it be a case that if I'm an Australian PR or citizen and I became disabled and could no longer work, the Australian gvt will assist me? I've read about the medical care. But would that actually consist of financial assistant(how is it determined how much you get?) and for how long?

Thanks.


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

jb12 said:


> Naoto,
> Can you please explain what you meant in the statement above.
> 
> Would it be a case that if I'm an Australian PR or citizen and I became disabled and could no longer work, the Australian gvt will assist me? I've read about the medical care. But would that actually consist of financial assistant(how is it determined how much you get?) and for how long?
> ...


In unfortunate instance you become disabled there is a large amount of safeguards put in place by the government. I'll list just a small list of them below, this list is not exhaustive and, obviously every person should consult a professional (hopefully no one will need any support anyway).
•	Income protection and disability insurance included in your superannuation.
•	Income and disability protection thru commonwealth support (Centrelink/Disability office and pension and etc) 
•	Carer provision and free medical support.
•	Disability housing (refer to your state, this relates to NSW/VIC. I'm sure other states have something similar).
•	Work cover (I'm yet to find a country which provides such an extensive protection as workcover in Australia).

Some of this protection will last for life.


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

The truth is that WorkCover is for about 3 months. It's difficult to extend it beyond that. The Disability Support Pension is roughly $600 a fortnight and the only income protection option is if you pay for a policy yourself. I know "on paper" there are many options but try accessing any of those and you'll find it's not the case. 

Of course I opted to send my daughter to private school and university and that was a choice. I was merely showing the costs of living in Australia (no matter what your choices) are extremely high.


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

KimMii said:


> The truth is that WorkCover is for about 3 months. It's difficult to extend it beyond that. The Disability Support Pension is roughly $600 a fortnight and the only income protection option is if you pay for a policy yourself. I know "on paper" there are many options but try accessing any of those and you'll find it's not the case.
> 
> Of course I opted to send my daughter to private school and university and that was a choice. I was merely showing the costs of living in Australia (no matter what your choices) are extremely high.


Workcover is for 3 months? Where did you get that from? I'm not being mean but, one of my colleagues had a bike accident on the way to work and got paid approx $370 000 from workcover NSW?. And he is not disabled, he just had to be "out of workforce" for 6 months. I'm sure he could have started working earlier, he was just taking the liberty of abusing it. 

I dont think you fully understand workcover, usually it doesnt give you any "monthly" payout, but a lump sum


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

naoto said:


> Workcover is for 3 months? Where did you get that from? I'm not being mean but, one of my colleagues had a bike accident on the way to work and got paid approx $370 000 from workcover NSW?. And he is not disabled, he just had to be "out of workforce" for 6 months. I'm sure he could have started working earlier, he was just taking the liberty of abusing it.
> 
> I dont think you fully understand workcover, usually it doesnt give you any "monthly" payout, but a lump sum


Actually, I'm not sure you fully understand WorkCover. It is an 'income protection' type scheme that EMPLOYERS contribute to...in the event someone is injured at or in transit (to or from) work they are paid, by WorkCover about 65% of their wage...after 3 months WorkCover tries to get the person BACK to work...I don't deny your friend received a payout but it wouldn't have been through WorkCover... It would have been the third party insurer of his or the other vehicles registration.

Also, WorkCover does pay weekly, fortnightly or monthly just as the person would have been paid their wages...but at a reduced amount. If your friend wasn't left with some permanent injuries he has defrauded an insurance company. There are NO free payouts and they generally come only after a protracted legal case! Most take approximately 2 years to settle...if they go all the way to court, they can take much longer.


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

... he used a lawyer, so I'm quite sure there was no fraud involved. The benefit was as follows (approx and of top of my head) $120K for "pain and suffering"... This is not a "monthly" payout. I'm sure he did not lie to me as I have actually seen the letter sent to the employer!
Who paid the amount, workcover or employer, doesn't really bother me. What I'm happy about is if for such a "minor", in my opinion, injury he was paid that amount than you would be definitely covered for a permanent injury.,
Regardless of all of the above. If you are permanently disabled you will get a subsidized Medicare and housing, the $600 a fortnight you mentioned is more than enough if you are paying about $60 per week for a two bedroom unit in Parramatta in council housing. You have to include all details, they way you put forward the data is misleading and is not true at all.


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

How long ago was this? The laws and regulations are constantly being reviewed and changed Also keep in mind out of the $370K he'd have had to pay about $100K in legal fees. This would have included lawyers, doctors to prove his injuries and a mediator for the settlement process. Also any Medicare he received due to the accident would have been recovered by that body (for doctors visits, specialists and medications). If he claimed WorkCover and/or Centrelink during his time off work that would also have been recovered from the bodies involved. DSP (Disability Support Payment) is increasingly difficult to have granted and after a payout there is an exclusion period (the recipient isn't able to claim any Centrelink payments) usually for about 3 years. The DSP is reviewed every 2 years and if you cannot prove the condition or injuries prevent you from working in any capacity the payments are now being withdrawn or reduced. 

I think it is quite important for people to understand there's no "free ride" in Australia, and that's what I'm really trying to point out. Your friend would have had to have sustained substantial injuries in the accident for this case to have received a settlement such as this.


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

KimMii said:


> How long ago was this? The laws and regulations are constantly being reviewed and changed Also keep in mind out of the $370K he'd have had to pay about $100K in legal fees. This would have included lawyers, doctors to prove his injuries and a mediator for the settlement process. Also any Medicare he received due to the accident would have been recovered by that body (for doctors visits, specialists and medications). If he claimed WorkCover and/or Centrelink during his time off work that would also have been recovered from the bodies involved. DSP (Disability Support Payment) is increasingly difficult to have granted and after a payout there is an exclusion period (the recipient isn't able to claim any Centrelink payments) usually for about 3 years. The DSP is reviewed every 2 years and if you cannot prove the condition or injuries prevent you from working in any capacity the payments are now being withdrawn or reduced.
> 
> I think it is quite important for people to understand there's no "free ride" in Australia, and that's what I'm really trying to point out. Your friend would have had to have sustained substantial injuries in the accident for this case to have received a settlement such as this.


There is no free ride at all, be that in Australia, UK, China or the Holy Heaven!
You need to work for your money, however if you are not able to do so for a genuin reason you will have a decent life and will not have to beg on the street. Full stop.

DSP is reviewed every two years for a reason, no one should EVER abuse the system. If it was my call it would be reviewed every 2 months! However, again, if you have a genuin disability you will be cared after, that was the question.


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

I do remember back when Oprah Winfrey had her show, there was one episode that had Denmark having the Happiest People in World according to some survey. If a person loses their job, they can get up to 90% of their salary for 4 yrs. There is free medical care and people get paid some money to go to a university. Then 6-12 months in paid maternity leave.

All of this sounds nice. But I would think that Denmark's citizens would be heavily taxed in order for the government to be able to offer this? 

Also, it seems kind of extreme to offer a person's salary up to 90% for 4 yrs. Would that mean someone can just sit back and enjoy the money? I would think it would be sufficient at least 1-2 yrs. However, there are probably restrictions and requirements for people getting up to 4 yrs. It sounds all good to the rest of the world. But I think the citizens would have to contribute a significant amount in taxes in order for the Denmark government to be able to do this. 


Excerpt from Oprah's website:
_"For the past 30 years, scientific researchers and survey results have all reached the same conclusion—Danes are consistently happier than the rest of the world. On the "world map of happiness"—a map created by a social psychologist in England—Switzerland, Austria and Iceland rank just below Denmark on the happiness scale. Canada comes in at number 10, while the United States is a distant 23rd.

So what makes the Danes so happy? Oprah met up with Nanna Norup, a resident of Copenhagen, to find out. As they walk down the cobblestone streets, Nanna explains some of the differences between Denmark and America. 

For instance, in Copenhagen, people are very environmentally conscious. A third of the population rides bikes around the city, many with grocery bags or small children in tow.

Homelessness, poverty and unemployment are also extremely rare in this nation of 5.5 million people. If you lose your job, Nanna says the government continues to pay up to 90 percent of your salary for four years. And not to worry...healthcare is free for everyone.

Read more: Why People in Denmark Are So Happy - Oprah.com

The Danish government also takes a special interest in mothers and their children. Women typically get six to 12 months in paid maternity leave. And, when it's time to go to college, citizens get paid to go the universities. "When you go to university, then you get paid $400 or $500," Nanna says. "You have free education. Then, you have healthy, well-educated people in the world. What could beat that?""

Read more: Oprah's Favorite Danish Bread - Oprah.com_


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

that reminds me, I had a friend who was looking into migrating to Australia but he read something that made him choose Norway instead.

He once skyped me from over there and said it's the best decision he's ever made. He went on and on about how Norway was thee best place to live in the world and how it came out in the news. 

Denmark is not Norway, but I think that whole region up there probably offers some great standards of living. You very rarely see people from Denmark, Norway and Sweden migrating anywhere.


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

naoto. 

I can't be sure where you live but I'm guessing Sydney. If you've not seen homeless people or beggars you need to take a closer look. There are plenty of people and many families without homes. And if you can't provide a home address you can't claim Centrelink payments and you're, therefore, not entitled to 'benefits'

Due to confidentiality agreements and my previous profession I can only say there are many people who don't make it out of a damages claim as the same people they were going in. It's a terrible cycle that breaks the strongest of people and often leads to breakdowns of families, marriages, mental health and, in some of the worst cases, suicide. I left Australia knowing of one damages claim that was into its 9th year. The family home had been lost, the careers were over and the family was in tatters. 

I really just wanted to stress that it's not as cut and dried as you seem to think.


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

KimMii said:


> naoto.
> 
> I can't be sure where you live but I'm guessing Sydney. If you've not seen homeless people or beggars you need to take a closer look. There are plenty of people and many families without homes. And if you can't provide a home address you can't claim Centrelink payments and you're, therefore, not entitled to 'benefits'
> 
> ...



gosh.  thanks for the reality check - not that I didn't think this before, but thanks anyway. This is why my intention has always been to keep a good $2,500 in the bank so that in case something really bad happens, I can always fly back home. 

Of course, keep in mind that people returning back to their countries are not guaranteed jobs there either, so either way things can be rough if we don't plan adequately ahead without dependence on "benefits".


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

I think the entire world is in a pretty difficult position at the moment. I love Australia, don't get me wrong but the realities are definitely not the beds of roses it can be made out to be.


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## nonny1983 (Jul 20, 2011)

Hi everyone, iv been reading this with great interest and just want to add that I'm finding its not as expensive as everyone makes out. 
First off we are renting a rather big 4 bed home in a nice area of the gold coast for $390 a week. Although this is more than the 650 a month back home the house is more than twice the size and we have a garden not a yard backing onto a railway, so wayyyy more value for your buck!
Food, to feed a family of 5 is costing between $200 a.d $250 a week. Back home it was almost the same in pounds so I'm finding food cheaper but I guess its because I cook from scratch, nothing processed (tins of food are way cheaper back home). Petrol is cheaper as is car insurance, for example back home for my husband and I to insure what we have now, a 3.8 litre v6 would cost over 3000 pound here $475 fully comp!! 
Clothes are not too bad if you go sale time but many UK shops, next, m&s etc ship over now so that's all good. 
Utilities, I don't pay gas here so saving there, electricity I'm told expect a quarterly bill of about $400 which works out less than what we were paying for just that back hone again so cheaper. 
I could go on and on but what I'm trying to say is if your used to a certain lifestyle of convenience, fast food, nights out, top gadgets etc etc then you will find it expensive.


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

KimMii said:


> I think the entire world is in a pretty difficult position at the moment. I love Australia, don't get me wrong but the realities are definitely not the beds of roses it can be made out to be.


I'm sure it is not an easy ride at all. I guess it very much depends on your personal experience and your attitude. 
Roses have thorns as well, so if Australia is made out to be a bed of roses it would be painful if you fall on a wrong spot. I'm sure same can be said about Denmark, Norway and Finland. Otherwise you would see all Europe moving there, especially with the issues in Greece, Italy and Spain. 
Thanks KimMii was a great discussion. We are but off the topic thou


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes, I believe the discussion has been off topic as someone commented before. However, I have learned about things I didn't know about and were sort of answered in this discussion. People moving to Australia need to know what the best the country has to offer. But also what to expect that is not good. Depending where the person is from that is interested in moving to Australia, it is rare to hear what is going on with Australia. Mostly it is good news like an international celebrity visiting or a family that were stranded out in the ocean and were rescued. So to some people, Australia has no problems and better than other countries. To some they have high expectations when arriving in Australia. Then maybe disappointed to what they experience because it isn't what they expected.

As to Europeans moving to Denmark, Norway, and Finland due to the issues happening in the other European countries, I am sure that those countries may have stricter immigration laws? What I mean by that is I don't think they have shortage in skilled occupations as Australia. Just because if Denmark and maybe the other two countries have great benefits for their citizens, I would agree with Stormgal that they probably don't have a need to leave the country. They are happy where they are. Probably the only new people migrating into those countries are family members that were petitioned or through marriage.

I think that it is great that Denmark and Australia have the government programs to offer to their citizens. But permanent residents and citizens of these countries should not solely be dependent on these programs for the future. These government programs can change in the future at anytime. If they don't have any backup plans like savings(money) for unexpected events, then they might be in big trouble.

An example I can provide is like when the US started the social security program. They promised the citizens that this program will provide them financial security in the future and they will be taken care of. So many of these citizens didn't bother putting additional savings away. When they finally retired they were solely dependent on the social security monthly checks. What these citizens are receiving are not even enough to pay for housing in addition to prescription medications. What is even sadder is that the people that were not skilled workers would get less amount. The US govt had to implement senior subsidizing housing and some supplement SS income.


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

This thread has been an eye opener for me. I have already applied for 175 and now I am really having second thoughts about Australia. In fact, I am quite inclined to let it go.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

bangalg said:


> This thread has been an eye opener for me. I have already applied for 175 and now I am really having second thoughts about Australia. In fact, I am quite inclined to let it go.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


I don't think you should 'give up' on your idea...as I said, I love Australia, and the lifestyle is all it's reported to be...and more...but it does come at a cost.


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi Bangalg,

I would agree with KimMii about not giving up your dream to Australia if that is what you really want. You should just use the information found in the above discussions to prepare yourself what to expect when you move to Australia. That way you will not be shocked upon your arrival such as the cost of living. Just like if you go on vacation outside of your country to another country, wouldn't you do some research to determine what the currency is and the exchange rate? Where to visit,etc.? 

If you've already applied for the visa, you might as well proceed with it. You state you applied for the visa 175 but you have in your profile that you applied for VIC SS. I think you meant visa 176?

The majority of people that are making the move Australia coming from the UK, US, Canada, etc. are likely not moving to Australia for financial reasons. It is more for a change in environment or maybe not liking what is happening to their country,etc. The salaries in these countries are likely higher or the same in some extent to other countries like it is in Australia. So if they move to Australia and feel that the cost of living is more expensive than what they are used to compared to their salary, they likely will not stay. It's up to these people if they want to stay.

However, I think it is a different case for people from other countries in which the people want to move to Australia to escape violence in their country & extreme religion/human discrimination, and to have an an increase in financial stability. People coming from these countries will likely be the ones to stay because Australia will offer them the freedom and financial stability after so many years. It will likely not be an easy road and some may work in jobs that may not be in their profession. But as long as they can have income coming and be able to save for the future, they will do what they need to do to stay.

There are countless stories of those immigrants that have come here in the US and to other countries. After so many years, they are able to have financial stability because they have the perseverance and hope to make their lives better in the new country. Most of the time these people do it for their children so that they may have a better future than they did. When I say better, in some countries there are no jobs available for everyone even though they may have the education. Or if they have a job, it's just not enough to support the family and there is always a struggle for money.

The final decision is yours. But there a number of posters in this forum from India(your profile says you are from India?) that have made the move to Australia and have settled. From some of the posts that I've read, they are happy that they were approved for the visa and have stated that they are able to manage their finances. So I am sure if you have a specific question about moving to Australia, you can post a question.


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

jb12 said:


> Hi Bangalg,
> 
> I would agree with KimMii about not giving up your dream to Australia if that is what you really want. You should just use the information found in the above discussions to prepare yourself what to expect when you move to Australia. That way you will not be shocked upon your arrival such as the cost of living. Just like if you go on vacation outside of your country to another country, wouldn't you do some research to determine what the currency is and the exchange rate? Where to visit,etc.?
> 
> ...


Thanks JB12 for your thoughtful and insightful comments. 
I have applied under 175 although I am awaiting VIC SS- they take too long a time. And yes, I come from India.
You are right. People with different backgrounds have different perspectives. The reason I am looking at immigrating iS on account of my children. I hope to give them a fairer, cleaner and more progressive environment. But when I learnt here that rentals come up to AUD 3000 pm, it shocked me. I am not looking at making big money but I surely wAnt to live comfortably. I am optimistic. I will be on the lookout for related posts which will increase my understanding on this matter.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

bangalg said:


> Thanks JB12 for your thoughtful and insightful comments.
> I have applied under 175 although I am awaiting VIC SS- they take too long a time. And yes, I come from India.
> You are right. People with different backgrounds have different perspectives. The reason I am looking at immigrating iS on account of my children. I hope to give them a fairer, cleaner and more progressive environment. But when I learnt here that rentals come up to AUD 3000 pm, it shocked me. I am not looking at making big money but I surely wAnt to live comfortably. I am optimistic. I will be on the lookout for related posts which will increase my understanding on this matter.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


To be honest it depends on WHERE in Australia you're looking at living...Sydney is very expensive...so is the Gold Coast (where I'm from)...just remember that when you look at Real Estate sites in Australia, rentals are PER WEEK, not PER MONTH.


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## Riza2012 (Mar 2, 2012)

I have many friends in Perth and they tell me life over there is only tension , so expensive beyond belief, like for couple u need minimum $80,000 for basic life what is the use, but what to do at least better life than in their home country better freedom and rights no so much corruption and other problem. Thats why many people they immigrate also why i want to immigrate my country after 50 year will be under water


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Bangalg,

Check out a previous discussion http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...lia/105146-question-all-175-visa-holders.html that I participated in pertaining to someone having a question about the visa 175. Visa 175 is a 5 yr PR visa. When you are approved for a visa, you and your family need to validate the visas by a certain date. Depending on how fast you can get a job. You can maybe think about first working in Australia on your own while the rest of your family goes back to India after they validate their visas to stay in India with other family members. That way you can at least stay in order to minimize your expenses. This will allow you to save more and better prepare to find a bigger place for where you and your family can move into. In addition, it will give you more time to get to know residential areas and which one would be good for you and your family.

You may or may not like that idea being far from your family for a certain time period. But a lot of immigrants have had to do this in order to save some money until everyone can be together. Not only in Australia but to other countries. This maybe extreme for some people. But it's just an alternative to figure out what to do regarding cost of living of expenses when you first arrive.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2012)

Bangalg- I am from India and I currently work in Melbourne area in the same profession as yours. Having lived in US, Canada and now Australia, I do find Australia a tad bit expensive. But, it is not as depressing as you have perceived it to be. To give you an example, rental house in posh areas of Bangalore or Mumbai are much expensive than the suburbs, costing almost INR30-40k per month. Similarly, rental properties in prime location like beachfront or CBD area are bound to be expensive. We live in a nice suburb about 30 mins drive or 20 mins train ride to CBD area at a decent rent of $1600 per month for a huge 3BR house. As KimMii pointed out above, Private education is expensive as it is in India. However, the public schools education is not as bad here as it is in India. So there are choices to be made, similar to lifestyle in India, and that is true for any country. It boils down to the choice of lifestyle you want to keep. I hope I did not confuse you more. Good luck!


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

simone1 said:


> Bangalg- I am from India and I currently work in Melbourne area in the same profession as yours. Having lived in US, Canada and now Australia, I do find Australia a tad bit expensive. But, it is not as depressing as you have perceived it to be. To give you an example, rental house in posh areas of Bangalore or Mumbai are much expensive than the suburbs, costing almost INR30-40k per month. Similarly, rental properties in prime location like beachfront or CBD area are bound to be expensive. We live in a nice suburb about 30 mins drive or 20 mins train ride to CBD area at a decent rent of $1600 per month for a huge 3BR house. As KimMii pointed out above, Private education is expensive as it is in India. However, the public schools education is not as bad here as it is in India. So there are choices to be made, similar to lifestyle in India, and that is true for any country. It boils down to the choice of lifestyle you want to keep. I hope I did not confuse you more. Good luck!


Thanks, Simone. That was a really good piece of information. A rental of $1600 pm doesn't sound bad at all. And 30 mins commute sounds normal to me. I am from Bangalore and you are right about the rentals here. I am a Senior BA specialising in the Insurance domain and doing pretty well in terms of money. I want to move for non-monetary reasons although I do not want to be worse off financially after moving. It's interesting to know you worked in Canada as well. Do you have anything to say on the Australia vs Canada debate? Actually, I did get a Canadian PR but developed cold feet and stayed put in India! I will not make that mistake this time on.
Also, can you please tell me if You think Australian public schools are better than typical Indian private schools?

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## ash1901 (Mar 1, 2012)

I lived and worked in US for 20+ yrs and even for rent in Sydney it is comparable to Washington DC (suburb). I will be 25 mins west of Sydney and my rent is around $1800 per month for a nice 2 bedroom place. The most expensive thing is restaurants and entertainment. We have taken that in stride and actually enjoy the fact it's expensive and don't eat out as much (which is healthier). Cup of coffee is the same, petrol is slightly higher and if you watch specials on groceries you can get the right stuff home at the right price. I would say that if you manage your money well, even with high cost of living you can make it just fine. Considering the lifestyle in oz vs US, I am much happier, don't work so hard that I'm tired when I get home to my fam, and the beautiful weather makes me appreciate the decision I made. 

Oh and schools here are amazing, much much better then US public schools in terms of attentiveness from teachers and the lessons they learn. I think that's because there are about 360MM people in US vs roughly 20MM here. 

And the diversification here is amazing too. People are south friendlier. 

I could go on and on but will stop


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

I have yet to find an american who complains about Oz. I wonder about that. Or is it just extremely pleasant in the UK area?  There is something about people who come from the UK/Ireland and all the negative (or perhaps realistic) posts being written about Oz. This is not to criticize either/ or - just the general trend that I have noticed.


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## jb12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Stormgal,

I have read some negativity about Australia from Americans. But not necessarily from this forum. For the most part, the Americans that are sent by their companies from the US to Australia are taken care of. They probably get additional stipend to offset the cost of living where they are living. These people don't really worry about the money because they are taken care of. The complaints that you might hear from some Americans are the ones that had to make the move on their own. They might not make as much as they did before and spending more on products depending where they lived in the US.

Have you been to Australia before? If you haven't, the buildings and stores, etc. would make you feel like its like in any other city in the US. Of course, cars drive on the opposite side and difference in culture, etc. For Americans, it would not be too difficult to get adjusted to the Australian life. The differences is not something you really can see. Mostly attitude, accent, and how they do things differently.

You probably read more complaints people of the UK and nearby European countries is because there probably a lot more of them making the move to Australia compared to the US. I don't have any statistics on that. Or the other Americans on this forum just keep quiet since they were aware of the high cost of living. Either they will live with that fact and enjoy a different lifestyle or either not make the move. Or if they already are living in Australia, just move back.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2012)

I dont know about Americans because I've never met one in Oz! But I can figure about the Brits being one lol

Looks like we might be spoilt lol. We have cradle to grave free health care. Welfare state that will continue to pay us benefits if we can never work and even some when we do. Completely free school education, heavily subsidised uni education and subsidised everything else to much to list even with austerity measures and cutbacks. 

Off we go to Aus and find we don't have this because its not entirely free, not available to anyone, only to citizens or due to being a new PR. 

Along with the higher cost of living compared to the UK Brits stamp their feet! IMAO anyway


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

_shel said:


> I dont know about Americans because I've never met one in Oz! But I can figure about the Brits being one lol
> 
> Looks like we might be spoilt lol. We have cradle to grave free health care. Welfare state that will continue to pay us benefits if we can never work and even some when we do. Completely free school education, heavily subsidised uni education and subsidised everything else to much to list even with austerity measures and cutbacks.
> 
> ...


haha, yeah, that is major spoilage!

Do you regret moving back to Liverpool? Call me silly, but when I think about Liverpool, I think about the Beatles and the Titanic!


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2012)

No I dont regret it, I wish it could have worked in Australia but it wasnt going to then. I would sooner be unemployed here, somewhere I know and understand than a foreign country where I know no one. And yes it is a foreign country despite many brits thinking it's just like the UK but sunny lol.

What I do regret is not researching enough before we went I actually thought I had but it wasnt enough. 
To everyone else, research everything ten times before going! Your career prospects, lifestyle, communities you want to live in, cost of living, schools everything. The more you know the less you can be let down, taken aback or have to worry about.

Liverpool is a great city though still trying to live off the back of the beatles! Think it must be some titanic anniversary, all sorts of events going on about it right now!


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## nonny1983 (Jul 20, 2011)

Im a brit and I love it here. Don't get me wrong I love Cardiff where I'm from but as shel says Brits are nannied, too much I think and in my opinion anyway it has lead to a country where a lot of people expect to have things handed to them and give nothing back in return. There's a lot of negativity and its catching, no one ( or at least very few people ) have a can do attitude. The system is also not as fair as everyone has you believe, my brother for example, a drug addict from the age of 13 (not unusual where I'm from) left school at 15 no qualifications and has been on the dole since for 'stress related issues' the boy says he can not get out of bed intime to hold down a job yet he has no problems going to the pub, parties etc on the other end of the spectrum you have my father who has worked solidly as a production planner for over 30 years before branching out on his own to own a bar which went bust after 5 years, with no job (he looked but age was not on his side) turned to welfare but was told he qualified for no help s he had not paid enough NI to qualify!! He started odd jobbing to make money fell off a ladder and is now crippled and still does not receive much help from the state whereas my brother rakes it in!! 
Sorry to waffle ppl but this is just one thing I hate about the UK, the inequality if the system and the amount of ppl who wish to abuse it. I see nothing wrong with having to pay towards Drs or prescriptions, maybe ppl would abuse them less if we did the sane back home. Same with everything else, food, fuel, rentals etc


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## KimMii (Apr 29, 2010)

_shel said:


> No I dont regret it, I wish it could have worked in Australia but it wasnt going to then. I would sooner be unemployed here, somewhere I know and understand than a foreign country where I know no one. And yes it is a foreign country despite many brits thinking it's just like the UK but sunny lol.
> 
> What I do regret is not researching enough before we went I actually thought I had but it wasnt enough.
> To everyone else, research everything ten times before going! Your career prospects, lifestyle, communities you want to live in, cost of living, schools everything. The more you know the less you can be let down, taken aback or have to worry about.
> ...


100th Anniversary of the Titanic


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2012)

bangalg said:


> Thanks, Simone. That was a really good piece of information. A rental of $1600 pm doesn't sound bad at all. And 30 mins commute sounds normal to me. I am from Bangalore and you are right about the rentals here. I am a Senior BA specialising in the Insurance domain and doing pretty well in terms of money. I want to move for non-monetary reasons although I do not want to be worse off financially after moving. It's interesting to know you worked in Canada as well. Do you have anything to say on the Australia vs Canada debate? Actually, I did get a Canadian PR but developed cold feet and stayed put in India! I will not make that mistake this time on.
> Also, can you please tell me if You think Australian public schools are better than typical Indian private schools?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


cold feet for Canada...somehow doesn't sound strange  (Jokes)
I love Canada for its multi-cultural society, which is due to 2nd and 3rd generations of immigrants living there. It is easy to settle in Canada from purely society based perspective. But, I love Australia for its weather and the number of sports/interests/leisure activities offered. I can't comment on schools as I have no first-hand experience. Hope that helped.


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