# British passport holder



## Ejs1230 (Mar 22, 2011)

Can anyone give me some advice ?

I was born in south africa in 1968 and lived there until I was 11 yrs of age and then left with my British mother to reside in the uk in 1979 - I believe I travelled on a S A passport to uk then, although my mother has died since then so I'm not so sure !

Since 1988 I've held a British passport and have travelled to and from south africa for holidays atleast 20 times in the nineties and about 4 times in the early 00'ss 

My passport shows country of birth as Johannesburg south africa.

Im flying to capetown on the 30th of this month march 2011 and have heard that I now need a south African passport ? 

Is this correct ? 

I've been told that I'll either be fined or deported !

Has anyone else had the same issue ?


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Ejs1230 said:


> Can anyone give me some advice ?
> 
> I was born in south africa in 1968 and lived there until I was 11 yrs of age and then left with my British mother to reside in the uk in 1979 - I believe I travelled on a S A passport to uk then, although my mother has died since then so I'm not so sure !
> 
> ...


Hi

I do not know where you would have heard something like that, but I would like to state that we have heard nothing of sorts.

Assuming you have not committed a crime in South Africa, there is no reason to deport you. Fines are issued for foreign nationals who have overstayed their stay in South Africa.

When you were born, you would have been issued a South African birth certificate. I would suggest that you contact the South African embassy in your home country, and apply for a determination of citizenship. This can take 8-12 months. In the mean time, you can enter South Africa with your British passport. You would receive a tourist visa upon entry, which will be valid for 90 days.

If you wish to reside in South Africa for longer, one would need to look at visa options, while the determination of citizenship is under way.

To summarise: Unless you have been convicted of a crime, or have been declared an "undesirable person" by the Department of Home Affairs, you can enter and leave South Africa.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

You would also have only registered for a SA ID book at age 16, at which point you had been out of SA for 5 years.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

You only need a SA passport if you are still a SA citizen. I have dual citizenship, have to leave and enter the country on my SA passport. I you do not have dual citizenship you need not carry a SA passport.
Did your mother emigrate officially from SA?


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## Ejs1230 (Mar 22, 2011)

Johanna said:


> You only need a SA passport if you are still a SA citizen. I have dual citizenship, have to leave and enter the country on my SA passport. I you do not have dual citizenship you need not carry a SA passport.
> Did your mother emigrate officially from SA?


Hi, thanks for your mail - my mother took myself and brother out if the country - illegally - effectively kidnapped us so I'm guessing we didn't officially emigrate, although she was born in the uk and would have travelled only on a british passport - and didn't have any formal I.D status in south africa ie - no I D book etc 

I don't have a problem with applying for dual citizenship - in fact will do so when I get back - I just don't fancy being deported fined or arrested ! I'm only there for 3 days for a wedding -! 

Regards 

Steve


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Isn't the rule - If you were born there you are a citizen and are entitled to live there?


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

Halo said:


> Isn't the rule - If you were born there you are a citizen and are entitled to live there?


Like with any country, nothing happens automatically. Even if a foreign national is born in South Africa, and at the time this would have allowed for South African citizenship to be granted, one would have still needed to obtain a South African birth certificate and then APPLY for a South African passport.

The same applies today. Although one may have a right to citizenship (for example if the parents were South African nationals), one would still need to apply for a determination.

Again, this is very similar to other countries as well, as governments will want (and need) to establish why citizenship was lost in the first place.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Ejs1230 said:


> Hi, thanks for your mail - my mother took myself and brother out if the country - illegally - effectively kidnapped us so I'm guessing we didn't officially emigrate, although she was born in the uk and would have travelled only on a british passport - and didn't have any formal I.D status in south africa ie - no I D book etc
> 
> I don't have a problem with applying for dual citizenship - in fact will do so when I get back - I just don't fancy being deported fined or arrested ! I'm only there for 3 days for a wedding -!
> 
> ...


Hi Steve
I do not think you can apply for SA citizenship after being granted UK citizenship. I am sure you have no problems. You are no longer a SA citizen and will have no problem, of that I am convinced.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Joaschim said:


> Like with any country, nothing happens automatically. Even if a foreign national is born in South Africa, and at the time this would have allowed for South African citizenship to be granted, one would have still needed to obtain a South African birth certificate and then APPLY for a South African passport.
> 
> The same applies today. Although one may have a right to citizenship (for example if the parents were South African nationals), one would still need to apply for a determination.
> 
> Again, this is very similar to other countries as well, as governments will want (and need) to establish why citizenship was lost in the first place.


You are entitled to SA citizenship , by birth, but if you obtain SA citizenship, you will lose your British citizenship.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> You are entitled to SA citizenship , by birth, but if you obtain SA citizenship, you will lose your British citizenship.


Just don't tell em  - That's a trade nobody makes


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Just don't tell em  - That's a trade nobody makes


Halo!!! I am being serious here 


OP has a British passport and does not have to apply for dual citizenship as he is now a Brit!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> Halo!!! I am being serious here
> 
> 
> OP has a British passport and does not have to apply for dual citizenship as he is now a Brit!


I am willing to bet you still have your BP


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> I am will to bet you still have your BP


Yip, I do! :clap2:

I had to have permission to retain my SA citizenship! 


Makes for easy travelling and NI pension ( to which I am full entitled after contributing quite a bit!)


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> Yip, I do! :clap2:
> 
> I had to have permission to retain my SA citizenship!
> 
> ...


Always the case............. :amen:


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## Ejs1230 (Mar 22, 2011)

To everyone who commented on my post last week - re travelling on a British passport to south africa - thankyou !

I didn't have any problems travelling in or out of that great country - what a change thou !

I'm going into London south africa house next week to confirm if I do need any further documentation to travel again and will post my findings ! - steve


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Ejs1230 said:


> To everyone who commented on my post last week - re travelling on a British passport to south africa - thankyou !
> 
> I didn't have any problems travelling in or out of that great country - what a change thou !
> 
> I'm going into London south africa house next week to confirm if I do need any further documentation to travel again and will post my findings ! - steve


Good to read that you had no problems !
Hope you had a good time although you only came for a short visit!


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## Melody Blue (Apr 23, 2011)

*Melody Blue*

Hi Ejs 1230
YES you DO need a South Afrcan passport if you wish to be recognised as a dual citizen and not have to worry about visas and applying for permanent residence.
The situation is this: Like you I was born in South Africa, and like you I have a British passport having been naturalised in 1961. From 1984 until 2000 I travelled frequently to and fro.on my British passport. I did not have a South African passport at the time. When I returned to SA ipermanently had to go to Home Affairs to have my British Passport stamped with an endorsement that I was a South African Citizen. This allowed me free access in and out of the country until 2004. THEN a new law was introduced in which ALL dual citizens were legally required to depart on a South African passport! I therefore had to apply for a South African passport in order to go on holiday to the UK. I used my British passport for trips to Europe. This saved me from having to get a Shengen visa. 
What the situation is now I'm not sure, as South Africans now have to have visas to visit the UK. But for dual SA/British citizens there must be an endorsement which one can get from the British embassy in which they stamp and endorsement in the South African passport for the benefit of passport control when entering the UK. I have not had to check this out yet as I have not been to the UK since it became necessary for South African passport holders to have a visa to enter Britain. This you can find out by contacting the British High Commission. I hope this helps. Cheers. Melody blue.




Ejs1230 said:


> Can anyone give me some advice ?
> 
> I was born in south africa in 1968 and lived there until I was 11 yrs of age and then left with my British mother to reside in the uk in 1979 - I believe I travelled on a S A passport to uk then, although my mother has died since then so I'm not so sure !
> 
> ...


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## Melody Blue (Apr 23, 2011)

*Melody Blue*

That's great, but DO read my reply to be on the safe side for protracted stays in SA 



Ejs1230 said:


> To everyone who commented on my post last week - re travelling on a British passport to south africa - thankyou !
> 
> I didn't have any problems travelling in or out of that great country - what a change thou !
> 
> I'm going into London south africa house next week to confirm if I do need any further documentation to travel again and will post my findings ! - steve


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## signol (May 18, 2011)

Johanna said:


> You are entitled to SA citizenship , by birth, but if you obtain SA citizenship, you will lose your British citizenship.


No, you cannot lose British citizenship by applying for a 2nd citizenship. You can only lose British citizenship if you formally renounce it.

(I tried to post a link to the British Home Office page quoting this but cannot - do a search for "Lose British Citzenship" and read the FAQs on the page entitled "Dual nationality - UK Border Agency")

signol


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

signol said:


> No, you cannot lose British citizenship by applying for a 2nd citizenship. You can only lose British citizenship if you formally renounce it.
> 
> (I tried to post a link to the British Home Office page quoting this but cannot - do a search for "Lose British Citzenship" and read the FAQs on the page entitled "Dual nationality - UK Border Agency")
> 
> signol


Thanks for clearing that up signol!


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## Melody Blue (Apr 23, 2011)

*SA UK dual citizenship*



Johanna said:


> Hi Steve
> I do not think you can apply for SA citizenship after being granted UK citizenship. I am sure you have no problems. You are no longer a SA citizen and will have no problem, of that I am convinced.


If you were born in South Africa you are South African by birth. If you subsequesently get British citizenship then uyou have dual citizenship, and would need to travel out of south Aric on you SA passport. You would npt need a shengen visa or any other type of visa open to British subjects because once you are out of SA you can swap to you British passport.

If you were bonr in the UK of South AFrican parents, then to avoid having to pay for SA visas and being prevented from staying longer than three months, you need to register as a South African citizenship on the grounds that you parent was South AFrican at the timne of your birt. Once registered you will then need to apply for a SA passport IF you wish to stay longer than three months. If just for short stays, the South African side will stamp SA Burger in your British passport.

I have personally experienced all three versions, the first and last for myself, and the second for my granddaughter who was born in London and wished to return as a young adult permanently to South Africa. The registration was expensive, so not needed unless you intend to stay permanently. 

Cheers,
Melody Blue.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Melody Blue said:


> If you were born in South Africa you are South African by birth. If you subsequesently get British citizenship then uyou have dual citizenship, and would need to travel out of south Aric on you SA passport. You would npt need a shengen visa or any other type of visa open to British subjects because once you are out of SA you can swap to you British passport.
> 
> If you were bonr in the UK of South AFrican parents, then to avoid having to pay for SA visas and being prevented from staying longer than three months, you need to register as a South African citizenship on the grounds that you parent was South AFrican at the timne of your birt. Once registered you will then need to apply for a SA passport IF you wish to stay longer than three months. If just for short stays, the South African side will stamp SA Burger in your British passport.
> 
> ...


Hi Melody
Was there not a cut off date for obtaining UK citizenship if you were born there (SA parents)?
I had to formally request to retain my SA citizenship, before I could apply for UK citizenship - now have dual citizenship, leave the country with my SA passport and re-enter with same passport.
Thanks


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## Guest (May 23, 2011)

Melody Blue said:


> If you were born in South Africa you are South African by birth. If you subsequesently get British citizenship then uyou have dual citizenship, and would need to travel out of south Aric on you SA passport. You would npt need a shengen visa or any other type of visa open to British subjects because once you are out of SA you can swap to you British passport.
> 
> If you were bonr in the UK of South AFrican parents, then to avoid having to pay for SA visas and being prevented from staying longer than three months, you need to register as a South African citizenship on the grounds that you parent was South AFrican at the timne of your birt. Once registered you will then need to apply for a SA passport IF you wish to stay longer than three months. If just for short stays, the South African side will stamp SA Burger in your British passport.
> 
> ...


Hi all

Just to clarify a few points: 

These days simply being born in South Africa does NOT make you a citizen. One of the parents will need to be South African. 

Then, in order to obtain a South African passport, a South African birth certificate will be required (and obtaining this can be quite a process espcecially if it had not been obtained at birth, for example if born outside of SA).

The process can be quite lengthy as per Melody Blue's message.

Regarding travelling: South Africans who do not hold UK citizenship and wish to travel to the UK, would need to apply for a UK visa. Airport immigration will check at departure from South Africa if the candidate has a UK visa and will check where the candidate is actually flying to. 

Of course, there will always be the exception, where airport immigration does not really check, or if you show your UK passport they will let you bord the plane, however, I would advise that key is to keep everything as consistent as possible. The last thing you want is to be refused to leave because the information does not add up.


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