# Form 8833



## crisvic (Jan 25, 2020)

Hello, just read, completly new to me, that a U.S. citizen living abroad in a country with a tax treaty with the U.S. is obliged to file form 8833..Treaty based return position disclosure....never heard of that form and I already filed my 2019 return without attaching that form....Kindly suggest if I should do anything....Country of residence Spain. (tax treaty with U.S.)..I paper filed my U.S. and Spain Social Security pensions 23.000$ to Austin Tx.....thanks for your help.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I wouldn't bother with that one unless you're "taking a treaty position" - which means that you've done something on your tax return based on the treaty that would require some sort of explanation. If they have a problem, they'll be in touch - but don't count on them getting back to you any time soon. They're kind of wrapped up with other projects at the moment.


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## crisvic (Jan 25, 2020)

Thanks so much


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

Form 8833 is NOT required if you are taking a treaty position on the taxation of a pension.

Per the regulations...



> (c) Reporting requirement waived.
> (iv) That a treaty reduces or modifies the taxation of income derived from dependent personal services, *pensions*, annuities, social security and other public pensions, or income derived by artistes, athletes, students, trainees or teachers;


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.6114-1


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## Cousin Jack (Feb 6, 2016)

Moulard said:


> Form 8833 is NOT required if you are taking a treaty position on the taxation of a pension.
> 
> Per the regulations...
> 
> ...


Would the 'savings clause' apply for a USC?


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

Cousin Jack said:


> Would the 'savings clause' apply for a USC?


I think you are conflating two unrelated items.

The savings clause is a clause in all US income tax treaties, that reads something along the lines of...

"The US can tax its citizens as if the treaty was not in effect save for a number of specific clauses that are then listed" -- its why its generally called the savings clause.

When a US person wants to take advantage of one of the clauses that are protected (ie. saved from treatment as if the tax treaty was not in place), that is where form 8833 is used to justify their tax position.

The regulations I quoted above indicate when you must use that form, and when you do not have to use that form because they have waived the requirement.


Now if you are considering whether a pension is covered by the savings clause and thus does not require form 8833 will in part depend on the type of pension and whether or not it is something for which you can in fact take a treaty position.


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