# Having hard time with immigration, SC 189 refusal, experts please help



## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

Dear friends,

I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.

Had applied for assessment through ACS and was assessed as software engineer (ANZCO 261313) on 4th April. All my experience of 5 years experience and computer engineering degree was assessed by ACS successfully. I also have IELTS result with over score of 6.5 bands (7 in L, S, R & 6.5 in W). I am also claiming 5 points for my wife's experience and qualification. I am under 30 and hence getting appropriate points for that too. I received invitation for EOI on 6th May and hence applied for SC 189 PR claiming 60 points.

However for some reasons my CO reduced my experience from 5 years by 24 months to 3 years and deducted 5 points from my total making 55. Instead of giving 10 points for my 5 years experience CO is giving me only 5 points for reduced experience. Hence refusing my application.

Points decision record states as below:

"Specifically clause 189.214 states:
189.214
(1) The applicant’s score, when assessed in relation to the visa under Subdivision B of Division
3 of Part 2 of the Act, is not less than the score stated in the invitation to apply for the visa.
(2) The applicant’s score, when assessed in relation to the visa under Subdivision B of Division
3 of Part 2 of the Act, is not less than the qualifying score for that Subdivision.
Note Subdivision B of Division 3 of Part 2 of the Act provides for the application of a points system under which applicants for relevant visas are given an assessed score based on a prescribed number of points for particular attributes, assessed against the relevant pool mark and pass mark: see sections 92 to 96 of the Act.
The prescribed points and the manner of their allocation are provided for in Division 2.6 and Schedule 6D of these Regulations. Pool marks and pass marks are set from time to time by the
Minister by instrument: see section 96 of the Act.
Section 94(1) of the Migration Act provides that:
94. (1) An applicant whose assessed score is more than or equal to the applicable pass mark at the time when the score is assessed is taken to have received the qualifying score.
Under the Migration Regulations your assessed score for this visa (assessed under Subdivision B of Division 3 of Part 2 of the Act ) must not be less than the score stated in the invitation to apply for the visa. *Your invited score, as specified in your invitation letter dated 06 May 2013 was 60 and your assessed score was 55.Therefore, you have not met the legislative requirements
for the grant of this visa."* 

I seek professional and expert advise on this...I am unable to cope with this refusal and going through very strange and terrible situation.

Anyone had similar experience?? Please help..


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

Gosh, how awful. I really do not think that once the DIAC makes up its mind as far as your experience, that it can be argued or fought over. They must have seen something on your application to come to their conclusion. 

Is it possible to just take the IELTS again and recover the loss points? That's what I would personally do.


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.i think you must seek professional advice from a reputed agent in your case. Try see whether there is a way to appeal.


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


Did acs reduce 2 years as part of their evaluation process?


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

Put your ACS letter here, omitting the personal info.


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## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

That is so sad and sick. How they can reduce two years without any reason that the applicant can understand and or agree. Total Cost of the visa fees 3500+1500 = 5000 AUD would be at loss too. It is not fair at all when ACS has considered the 5 years, how DIAC can reduce it ? No rules mentioned like that. Also, DIAC is just immigration authorities, they are less likely to know anything technical about skilled programs and or our job descriptions. When ACS gives the go, DIAC should accept it, subject to providing supporting company documents such as OL, appointment letter, Payslips, appraisal and promostion letters if any, bank statements for credit of salary, tax statements, release and experience certificate, skill reference letter.

Please check again with the CO and understand the reason behind it and see if CO cab be satisfied with any documents if she/he requires. I really feel sad for you. 

Best regards,
JR


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

jre05 said:


> That is so sad and sick. How they can reduce two years without any reason that the applicant can understand and or agree. Total Cost of the visa fees 3500+1500 = 5000 AUD would be at loss too. It is not fair at all when ACS has considered the 5 years, how DIAC can reduce it ? No rules mentioned like that. Also, DIAC is just immigration authorities, they are less likely to know anything technical about skilled programs and or our job descriptions. When ACS gives the go, DIAC should accept it, subject to providing supporting company documents such as OL, appointment letter, Payslips, appraisal and promostion letters if any, bank statements for credit of salary, tax statements, release and experience certificate, skill reference letter.
> 
> Please check again with the CO and understand the reason behind it and see if CO cab be satisfied with any documents if she/he requires. I really feel sad for you.
> 
> ...


The issue I guess does his ACS paper contain any *"AFTER .... "* clause at the end regarding his experience or not.


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## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

Sunlight11 said:


> The issue I guess does his ACS paper contain any *"AFTER .... "* clause at the end regarding his experience or not.


Right catch. He needs to confirm it with us. 

The main worry for me is, I got my ACS in Feb 2013 and so no reduction of experience for me and *no "AFTER" date for me as per old ACS report*. If DIAC reduces my experience, it would be awful and I will be in the same case of 55. I hope it will not reduce ? Because already have positive ACS (Which is valid for two years). Also mate, I can provide all the documents that I mentioned in my post above.

Best regards,
JR


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

jre05 said:


> Right catch. He needs to confirm it with us.
> 
> The main worry for me is, I got my ACS in Feb 2013 and so no reduction of experience for me and no "AFTER" date for me as per old ACS report. If DIAC reduces my experience, it would be awful and I will be in the same case of 55. I hope it will not reduce ? Because already have positive ACS (Which is valid for two years). Also mate, I can provide all the documents that I mentioned in my post above.
> 
> ...


Same here i got my acs in around jan before they deducted 2yrs. This is disturbing news. Hoping to see the acs report here.


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## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Same here i got my acs in around jan before they deducted 2yrs. This is disturbing news. Hoping to see the acs report here.


Yes Samkalu quite disturbing. But be relaxed, hope it shouldn't affect those who have positive ACS and or the old ACS report where there is no *"AFTER"*

Let us wait for the thread starter about what his ACS status was as requested by Sunlight. Perhaps we can have clarity then.

Best regards,
JR


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## Sinchan (Aug 6, 2013)

*Skilled Employment Record*



garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


Dear Garrying,

Feels really sad for you. It's really horrifying after putting in so much effort. I think you can get an opinion on your skilled employment from your skill assessing authority (ACS). Their opinion may justify your claim. It seems the skill assessment that the assessing authorities do is generally for your educational qualification. I think whether your entire skilled employment corresponds to the skilled occupation you have been assessed for depends on the judgement of the CO. They probably might be matching the definition of your skilled occupation with your skilled employment. Anyway this is what my thinking is. I suggest you at least check whether you skill assessing authority gives an opinion regarding your skilled opinion if required.

Thank you and best wishes buddy

Sinchan


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## eques (Aug 31, 2013)

I wanna say several things.
First of all, the author definetely holds the old version of assessment because the new versions began to appear only after 15 April, and his one was issued on 4 April.
However, I believe there are no reasons to worry. Until the author appears in this thread again, it's impossible to say for sure what happened. Perhaps some of his experience was gained before graduation, perhaps he wasn't able to provide sufficient evidence of employment to a case officer (such as payslips).
I personally know some of the people who applied in May using old versions of ACS assessments, and they got visas.
So, relax guys.


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## CuriousMind (Oct 3, 2012)

I agree with you that he must have old version of assessment (I have my friends assessment of 29th april 2013 and it still is the same as another friend of mine who had done in Jan 2013? I think the changes started from 1st July 2013 onwards)... Anyways, I also agree that some of his experience might not be post qualification. But, if all his experience is Post qualification, then, it will be a worry for all subsequent ACS candidates. and therefore, he must consult a registered migration agent and fight his case.



eques said:


> I wanna say several things.
> First of all, the author definetely holds the old version of assessment because the new versions began to appear only after 15 April, and his one was issued on 4 April.
> However, I believe there are no reasons to worry. Until the author appears in this thread again, it's impossible to say for sure what happened. Perhaps some of his experience was gained before graduation, perhaps he wasn't able to provide sufficient evidence of employment to a case officer (such as payslips).
> I personally know some of the people who applied in May using old versions of ACS assessments, and they got visas.
> So, relax guys.


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello Everyone,

Firstly,I'm sorry to hear about Garrying's refusal. This is no doubt the sad and terrible news for other ICT applicants too. 

Secondly, i believe the assessment report which Garrying submitted should be'old version' without 'After XX-DD-YYYY' statement. Cause the assessment was issued on 5th-April, as earlier someone metioned, the new format 'After xx-dd-yyyy' statement was introduced from 15-April. 

And actually I saw another similiar experience in following thread. One applicant who used 'old version' ACS assessment and claimed 8 years full experiences as requested by CO for 'proof of overseas employment whole 8 years of it salary slips, bank statement etc'. But seems that applicant is also hard to get those proof, this also would be problem and might lead to refusal of Visa.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...9-applications-waiting-co-10.html#post1520281 

Lastly, i would say that no matter whether you submitted OLD or NEW ACS assessment report, *DIAC CO will be as always be hold the last word*. 

Applicant who succeed by claiming full experiences could not be looked as an guarantee and successfully replicable to other applicants. Vice versa, for applicant who being denied a visa in one stream should not automatically preclude them from another either. Visa grants are made on their individual merits according to information provided by the applicant against the Migration Act. Whether successful or not depends on Case Officer's judgement and applicant's individual application.

And this seems actually has already been updated and reflected in latest CO Instruction Book to guide Case Officer on defining the 'Skilled employment', as i found below from ozdeep.comwhich said is the laste 2013-Aug version:

It mentioned if there is a deemed skilled date mentioned on the assessmeent report, then Case officer need ensure the points to be awarded only to experiences which gained after that date.
If there is no deemed skilled date mentioned which is Garrying's case, then following 16.3--pt2 describes:


> * 16.3--pt2: *The date on which an applicant becomes ‘skilled’ may be different from the date that an assessing authority finds that the person meets their requirement for a suitable skills assessment. For example, an assessing authority may issue a suitable skills assessment on the basis of attainment of a tertiary qualification but may require a period of post qualification work experience before considering an applicant ‘skilled’ for the purpose of employment points.


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

Hello all,

To clear some doubts here:

1) Experience of 5 years is fully backed by all evidence including pay slips, referral letters etc. There is no doubt about this.

2) There is no mention of after date etc. in assessment letter as some of you mentioned. ACS has considered all 5 years experience for software engineer.

As it appears there is some change of policy on 16th August in something called 6D. This is different to date when application was lodged. New change on 16th August extract as below:

16th August


> 16.2 When can employment be considered skilled
> For employment to be awarded points under Schedule 6D, it must meet three requirements:
> • it was undertaken after the applicant meets at least the entry level requirements as set by the relevant
> assessing authority for that occupation (that is, completed a sufficient level of study and or amount of
> ...


2nd June extract as below:



> 16 Employment must be skilled
> 16.1 Two requirements
> For employment to be considered ‘skilled’ it must meet two requirements:
> • it was undertaken after the applicant met the entry level requirements for that occupation (that is,
> ...


Lastly, I can also see below in points decision record:



> The skills assessment and qualification you provided on 02 June 2013 show you hold a Bachelor of Engineering (Computer) completed in 2007. This qualification was assessed by
> ACS as comparable to an AQF Bachelor Degree with a major in computing.
> The Summary of Criteria shows that an applicant who does not meet the Australian study
> requirement but holds a Bachelor Degree with a major in computing requires 2 years of relevant
> ...


So I am trying to understand exactly whether it is change of policy on 16th August that has impacted my application or whether it's about Summary of Criteria thing as state above.

Please help..as I am going through lot of pain and terrible experience here. Any legal migration experts on forum who thinks this can be appealed? Any options? Due to this I've lost all the money on this that I had saved and going through very agonizing situation even when everything was supplied and done 100% in accordance with DIAC. In fact I haven't done this myself but through migration agent. Really worried and stressed..!!


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

garrying said:


> Hello all,
> 
> To clear some doubts here:
> 
> ...


Can you sharr a sample of your acs result letter?


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Can you sharr a sample of your acs result letter?


Extract as below:



> Dear Mr XXXX,
> Thank you for your ICT skills assessment, which was received by the Australian Computer Society on 1 February 2013.
> Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261313 (Software Engineer) of the
> ANZSCO Code.
> ...


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

garrying said:


> Extract as below:


Under 16th aug point 3, they have added that it must comply with the standards of the assessing authority under that particular occupation.

Guys, since reducing 2yrs is a standard that came aftr april, does that mean acs assessments taken before april falls under this point where diac reduces 2yrs?

Is there anyone else in the forum that has the old acs and got evaluated after 16th aug in which the ço has reduced or not reduced 2yrs?

Tricky and strange. Btw if it is the case does diac have the right to change rules when applications submitted are in the pipeline?

@garrying, i think you must escalate this and do a appeal.


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## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Under 16th aug point 3, they have added that it must comply with the standards of the assessing authority under that particular occupation.
> 
> Guys, since reducing 2yrs is a standard that came aftr april, does that mean acs assessments taken before april falls under this point where diac reduces 2yrs?
> 
> ...


this is shocking for me also. i have also have old ACS received 12th april 2013 so there is no any deductions on my letter. if they reduced 2 years from me, i can't prove my points. 

is there any updates please update.


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

ccham said:


> this is shocking for me also. i have also have old ACS received 12th april 2013 so there is no any deductions on my letter. if they reduced 2 years from me, i can't prove my points.
> 
> is there any updates please update.


Me too with under same scenario.


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Its a strange situation , if we look at the deduction being applied by DIAC when CO is allocated any applicant who does not have the standard value of years deducted by ACS in the skill assesment will get into trouble except a small subset of people like thise who have an assesment of 7 Years as they will get points for 5 years and they have 2 years buffer to accomaodate the deduction as they couldnt have claimed for 8 years

My assesment was done in March 13 as below wonder what happens: -


Dated 19 March 2013
Dear X XXX,

Thank you for your ICT skills assessment, which was received by the Australian Computer Society on 15 *January 2013. 

Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261111 (ICT Business Analyst) of theANZSCO Code. 

Your qualification has been assessed as follows: 

Your Bachelor of Engineering from XXXXXXXXX * *University completed May 2004 has 
been assessed as comparable to an AQF Bachelor Degree with a major in computing 

Your work experience has been calculated as follows on the basis of full time employment of at least 20hrs per week:*

*

Dates:*10/04 - 05/05 (0yrs 0mths)
Position: Designation 1Not Assessable due to Insufficient Detail (Basically I couldnt get a reference letter)
Employer: Company 1
Country: India

Dates:06/05 - 10/06 (0yrs 0mths)
Position:*Designation 2 Not Assessable due to Insufficient Detail (Basically I couldnt get a reference letter)
Employer:*Company 2
Country: India

Dates:*10/06 - 10/12 (6yrs 0mths) ( Here I gave all the documentation)
Position:*Designation 3
Employer:*Company 3
Country: India


Well some thing similar can happen incase of Age as well isn't it Im 32 and 10 Months post my birthday in Nov 13 if I don't a grant etc by then so will those points also be moved out and cause rejection

Ahhh pretty maddening


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

ojhaa said:


> Its a strange situation , if we look at the deduction being applied by DIAC when CO is allocated any applicant who does not have the standard value of years deducted by ACS in the skill assesment will get into trouble except a small subset of people like thise who have an assesment of 7 Years as they will get points for 5 years and they have 2 years buffer to accomaodate the deduction as they couldnt have claimed for 8 years
> 
> My assesment was done in March 13 as below wonder what happens: -
> 
> ...


Your last two experience periods '*10/06 - 10/12*' are same. Seems typing mistake.


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Mroks said:


> Your last two experience periods '*10/06 - 10/12*' are same. Seems typing mistake.



Updated for the error apologies for the Typo


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi Ojhaa,
Points for age is taken at the time of invitation.


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## tenten (Aug 12, 2012)

garrying said:


> Hello all,
> 
> To clear some doubts here:
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your situation. Clearly , the refusal stems from you having less points than you claimed in your EOI. I understand that your claim was based on the ACS report that you held at that time. What is important is to determine whether the change in DIAC/ACS policy to have 24 months of experience counted towards qualification ( and therefore removed from post qualification experience) was introduced before or after you lodged your application. If it occurred before you lodged your application, then you had to correct your EOI before lodging the application and in such a case an appeal would be difficult to uphold. On the other hand, if the changes occurred after your application was lodged, then your EOI claims were true at the *time of lodgement* and then you have good chance of redress. I am convinced that the *date of your assessment* is not material in this case. DIAC will be concerned about the policy at the *date you lodged the application. *

My 2 cents.


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

With my memory , I may remember wrongly already so please correct me if I'm wrong , applicant just selects From & To dates for employments marks if it is related to the nominated occupation and then we mention the assessment details we never punch in any points manually so any one who has an old ACS ( without deduction) has technically not made any error the points were auto calculated ,

Or am I missing anything ?


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## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

tenten said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation. Clearly , the refusal stems from you having less points than you claimed in your EOI. I understand that your claim was based on the ACS report that you held at that time. What is important is to determine whether the change in DIAC/ACS policy to have 24 months of experience counted towards qualification ( and therefore removed from post qualification experience) was introduced before or after you lodged your application. If it occurred before you lodged your application, then you had to correct your EOI before lodging the application and in such a case an appeal would be difficult to uphold. On the other hand, if the changes occurred after your application was lodged, then your EOI claims were true at the *time of lodgement* and then you have good chance of redress. I am convinced that the *date of your assessment* is not material in this case. DIAC will be concerned about the policy at the *date you lodged the application. *
> 
> My 2 cents.


Sorry to disagree with you. It is no where mentioned that our experience post qualification should be reduced or backed for qualification in DIAC.

When the processing of applications was the way when one got positive ACS and DIAC considers all assessment by ACS and provides grant subject to only the proof of employment evidences in all form, why is that there are untold surprises when a candidate has positive ACS which do not have "After" date. 

There is no official information on this from DIAC website. Could you please refer the pointers if you know ?

Best regards,
JR


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Well trying some information from what i have on the documentation 

1) THE ACS LETTER DOES MENTION : While the ACS is authorised to assess ICT skills assessments, the final decision in awarding points remains with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship. 

2)How do figure out the date of this new rule

3) I agree shouldn't DIAC publicly advise applicants who have skill assessment older than date X to manually deduct the experience if they couldn't programme the same logic into the EOI tool 

But I guess arguing here wont help appeals method for Garry may be long/ Expensive best to wait with fingers crossed


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## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

tenten said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation. Clearly , the refusal stems from you having less points than you claimed in your EOI. I understand that your claim was based on the ACS report that you held at that time. What is important is to determine whether the change in DIAC/ACS policy to have 24 months of experience counted towards qualification ( and therefore removed from post qualification experience) was introduced before or after you lodged your application. If it occurred before you lodged your application, then you had to correct your EOI before lodging the application and in such a case an appeal would be difficult to uphold. On the other hand, if the changes occurred after your application was lodged, then your EOI claims were true at the *time of lodgement* and then you have good chance of redress. I am convinced that the *date of your assessment* is not material in this case. DIAC will be concerned about the policy at the *date you lodged the application. *
> 
> My 2 cents.


how we do that we just put our experience in EOI according to what mentioned in ACS document. the points calculated by them automatically by system. it is really unfair reject visa based on that. am i wrong?


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## tenten (Aug 12, 2012)

ojhaa said:


> With my memory , I may remember wrongly already so please correct me if I'm wrong , applicant just selects From & To dates for employments marks if it is related to the nominated occupation and then we mention the assessment details we never punch in any points manually so any one who has an old ACS ( without deduction) has technically not made any error the points were auto calculated ,
> 
> Or am I missing anything ?


I agree. Without a clear instruction to all affected by the 24 month of experience rule, it would be difficult to figure out what to do in your EOI. That may provide grounds for a good case.



jre05 said:


> Sorry to disagree with you. It is no where mentioned that our experience post qualification should be reduced or backed for qualification in DIAC.


While I admit that my knowledge of ACS skilled assessment is limited, this thread and forum is awash with info and links to the effect of change in ACS criteria for a positive skilled outcome. If one's qualification was not obtained in Australia then 2 years of their work experience is counted towards their qualification. In effect one becomes skilled after qualification plus 2 years work experience. This is why the new assessment letters have the *"Skilled After...* phrase.



ojhaa said:


> Well trying some information from what i have on the documentation
> 
> 1) THE ACS LETTER DOES MENTION : While the ACS is authorised to assess ICT skills assessments, the final decision in awarding points remains with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.
> 
> ...


I agree with you.

I am tempted to think that if an applicant still has over 60 points after 24 months of experience is deducted, then the chance of successfully appealing may be better. However in this case, the applicant will not have the minimum 60 points required for a skilled visa even if DIAC were to overlook the fact that the claimed points were more than the actual points.


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

I am feeling very frustrated and helpless. I don't understand how can DIAC assess my application based on new policy and not old one when application was lodged?? There is no communication whatsoever to my agent about changed policy. ..how can I accept this?? Moreover DIAC doesn't even tell applicants to not progress with medical as application will be refused. So basically you loose all money (diac fees, agent fees, acs fees etc etc.)
Without any results? ?

How do I take this further now?? Anyone in same boat? ?


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

eques said:


> I wanna say several things.
> First of all, the author definetely holds the old version of assessment because the new versions began to appear only after 15 April, and his one was issued on 4 April.
> However, I believe there are no reasons to worry. Until the author appears in this thread again, it's impossible to say for sure what happened. Perhaps some of his experience was gained before graduation, perhaps he wasn't able to provide sufficient evidence of employment to a case officer (such as payslips).
> I personally know some of the people who applied in May using old versions of ACS assessments, and they got visas.
> So, relax guys.


Hi,
You mention you had friends who applied in may. Did they get acs before the acs new rule?


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## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Hi,
> You mention you had friends who applied in may. Did they get acs before the acs new rule?


according to these comments we could see many visa rejections based on work experience. if it happens, it's very bad


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## toadsurfer (Nov 27, 2009)

Do you have a link to these changes in policy, the ones you quoted (16.2)? I can't find them anywhere online?


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

garrying said:


> I am feeling very frustrated and helpless. I don't understand how can DIAC assess my application based on new policy and not old one when application was lodged?? There is no communication whatsoever to my agent about changed policy. ..how can I accept this?? Moreover DIAC doesn't even tell applicants to not progress with medical as application will be refused. So basically you loose all money (diac fees, agent fees, acs fees etc etc.)
> Without any results? ?
> 
> How do I take this further now?? Anyone in same boat? ?


If your agent is a MARA certified then he/she is the right person to communicate with DIAC and solve the whole mess.


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## roposh (Apr 30, 2013)

*Decision to Take in next 5 Hours*



tenten said:


> I agree. Without a clear instruction to all affected by the 24 month of experience rule, it would be difficult to figure out what to do in your EOI. That may provide grounds for a good case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is horrible news. Somebody please help me out here. I have submitted EOI with 65 points and hoping to recieve invitation in next 5 hours. As per the above quoted (red) statement the 2 years criteria is applied 'POST QUALIFICATION'.. this worries me. I have been assessed as Skilled by ACS '*AFTER AUG 2008*'. My employment timeline started on *9/Aug/2006* so i believe ACS deducted my two years of experience and hence I claimed points for employment in EOI from 10/Aug/2008. Now there is a twist in this story. 
My Masters in IT which was been assessed as equivalent to Bachelors in IT Major was completed on *DEC 2006*

So as per the above quoted statement I should be eligible to claim experience points from Jan 2009 i.e. 2 years from the date of completion of my masters in IT... But as I said earlier, ACS considered me skilled *'AFTER AUG 2008'* so I am claiming points from Aug 2008. 

This whole situation has arisen because I started working at a Bank 4 months before completion of my Master in IT. Now please tell me what should i do? Should I change my EOI immediately and claim experience from Jan 2009? or should I go ahead with the 10/Aug/2008 as the starting point for my skilled employment?

regards,
roposh


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

Mroks said:


> If your agent is a MARA certified then he/she is the right person to communicate with DIAC and solve the whole mess.


I wish so..

How can my agent argue and on what grounds??? Comminicate withCO??


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## eques (Aug 31, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Hi,
> You mention you had friends who applied in may. Did they get acs before the acs new rule?


Hi, yes. Both of them hold the old version of the assessment. One of them applied in May, another one - in June.
But they applied for 190 visa and got state sponsorship. Perhaps diac just didn't want to contradict to the states which gave nominations to these guys.


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## pandakou (Oct 2, 2012)

garrying said:


> I am feeling very frustrated and helpless. I don't understand how can DIAC assess my application based on new policy and not old one when application was lodged?? There is no communication whatsoever to my agent about changed policy. ..how can I accept this?? Moreover DIAC doesn't even tell applicants to not progress with medical as application will be refused. So basically you loose all money (diac fees, agent fees, acs fees etc etc.)
> Without any results? ?
> 
> How do I take this further now?? Anyone in same boat? ?


This is very wrong.. DIAC can't change rules as per its own convinience..

Did u provide all the proofs for employments including Tax documents and Bank statements..?

Could u pl also let us know the type of organiastions which u experienced and on which date u have applied for visa 189 and when CO told u abt such scenarios?


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Looks grim  BTW Garrying can you update your signature with your time line please


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## tenten (Aug 12, 2012)

garrying said:


> I wish so..
> 
> How can my agent argue and on what grounds??? Comminicate withCO??


Your agent, if MARA certified and competent, would review your case first and give you an opinion on the likelihood of a successful appeal. It is your agent who should be in a better position to note if there are grounds for appeal.

When did you lodge your visa application?


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## eques (Aug 31, 2013)

garrying said:


> Hello all,
> 
> To clear some doubts here:
> 
> ...


Could you please tell us the source where you took these exctracts? Thanks


----------



## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

Hello Tenten,

As garrying said above, people lose IELTS fees(Some with many attempts), ACS fee, some DIAC fees and some applicants are encumbered with agent fees which is quite quite expensive if DIAC looks at every standing EOIs or invitations that way. I am sure DIAC will not be looking in this way, as there is no official information on this in the websites and neither in the EOI.

If DIAC has to encumber the unsaid rule, I wish, it would be prudent to program the EOI systemsuch that while placing the EOI itself people will be filtered and it is good for both parties (DIAC and as well as the applicants).

1. It is good for DIAC that, they will not spend time in an application that may be refused, rather they can utilize the time in processing the applications that fits their criteria, thus expediting the pending so many applications for the grant.

2. It is good for the applicants, so they will not spend huge amount in IELTS, ACS, DIAC, Agent and so on.

Lastly, as per the standing EOIs/invitations, and *old *existing rule, and *old *existing ACS report accumulated, it will be certainly unwise to encumber new changes on these applicants without a notice. Changes will be appreciable if that can benefit both the applicant and DIAC, something constructive such as fee hike or kind of some more criterias without completely rejecting the standing applicants. I am sure DIAC will not do this but would definitely address this issue. I am positive about it, as I see some other applicants who have had positive outcomes (Who got grant few weeks back). 

As this new rule is not mentioned anywhere, why do people speculate and worry too much, please be positive. Everyone will get the invite.

Also, garrying can certainly approach CO politely requesting reason for the decision with a MARA agent. And further, if garrying can convince CO by providing any other documents CO needs to finalize, apparently garrying will get the grant too. Please have patience and look at the issue what needs to be done to achieve the result that is intended, certainly there are ways. 

Lastly, but most importantly, it is all our luck, fate and the divine bliss we have, that ONLY assigns us everything in this life, afterall. I am a firm believer on this as I experienced it at many occasions.

Best regards,
JR


----------



## pandakou (Oct 2, 2012)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


Hi Garrying,

If possible could you please share us the reason that was mentioned by your CO for which your 2 years professional experience was deducted? It would be very helpful for all of us to have a clarity of filtration...


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtRVHppRwnymdHBPQ215OUVXMS0xbk5SbEpJNUF0ZUE#gid=0

I beleive that your case (garrying) must be due to some reasons, pls consult ur agent and i hope u can claim for that 2 yrs too.

If you see that link above, we will find a lot of 60 pts applciants who have old acs results, and in this forum , i was searching for hours to find a similar case like you, but fortunately i couldnt. Please correct me if im wrong.


----------



## roposh (Apr 30, 2013)

roposh said:


> This is horrible news. Somebody please help me out here. I have submitted EOI with 65 points and hoping to recieve invitation in next 5 hours. As per the above quoted (red) statement the 2 years criteria is applied 'POST QUALIFICATION'.. this worries me. I have been assessed as Skilled by ACS '*AFTER AUG 2008*'. My employment timeline started on *9/Aug/2006* so i believe ACS deducted my two years of experience and hence I claimed points for employment in EOI from 10/Aug/2008. Now there is a twist in this story.
> My Masters in IT which was been assessed as equivalent to Bachelors in IT Major was completed on *DEC 2006*
> 
> So as per the above quoted statement I should be eligible to claim experience points from Jan 2009 i.e. 2 years from the date of completion of my masters in IT... But as I said earlier, ACS considered me skilled *'AFTER AUG 2008'* so I am claiming points from Aug 2008.
> ...


Anyone???


----------



## eques (Aug 31, 2013)

roposh said:


> Anyone???


Take it easy. ACS deducts some experience from the beginning of your employment, not after your graduation. So your application is quite secure, I would say


----------



## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

Garrying.. So sorry to hear this.. Speaking to the CO only can give you the answers.

Then why does ACS say results valid for 2years? The new rule should be applicable for people who applied on or after Aug16th 2013. 

Every month rules in ACS, EOI, SS, DIAC keeps changing :frusty::frusty:


----------



## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

Sai2Aus said:


> Garrying.. So sorry to hear this.. Speaking to the CO only can give you the answers.
> 
> Then why does ACS say results valid for 2years? The new rule should be applicable for people who applied on or after Aug16th 2013.
> 
> Every month rules in ACS, EOI, SS, DIAC keeps changing :frusty::frusty:


ohh that means it would be affect all old ACS document holders?


----------



## dragoman (Mar 29, 2013)

ccham said:


> ohh that means it would be affect all old ACS document holders?


Looks like getting immigration is matter of luck now ..


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

ccham said:


> ohh that means it would be affect all old ACS document holders?


no not like that, see if it was so then we would have seen a lot of threads regarding this issue, coz it is new rule from jun-jul,2013. So 99% of applicants have old ruled acs , please see the link which i have shown above post , ull be more clear.


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

dragoman said:


> Looks like getting immigration is matter of luck now ..


totally agreed with your statement , if we don't have like 70 points its depend on luck


----------



## pandakou (Oct 2, 2012)

sanjeewa said:


> totally agreed with your statement , if we don't have like 70 points its depend on luck


Still we can't predict that due to ACS only, those 2 years were deducted in this case as still we are not aware about the exact reason for the deduction..


----------



## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> no not like that, see if it was so then we would have seen a lot of threads regarding this issue, coz it is new rule from jun-jul,2013. So 99% of applicants have old ruled acs , please see the link which i have shown above post , ull be more clear.


Is it for the applicants who have applied EOI after the new ACS rule?

In Garrying case, he has valid ACS with old format and complete years assessed. Importantly, it is very much valid.

I knew a case where the ACS was done in 2004 and he was successful with his application with the old assessment itself.
Reference of Shankster23 post in the below link.
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...22549-190-visa-applicants-waiting-co-965.html


----------



## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

samkalu said:


> Same here i got my acs in around jan before they deducted 2yrs. This is disturbing news. Hoping to see the acs report here.


Apart from the 2 Years validity, the ACS assessment never expires in the Skill select portal. 

One good example is one of the expat as mentioned in my earlier post on this thread had his assessment done in 2004 and he was successful with his application.

No idea on how to get the DIAC perceptions correct.

In Garrying case, he had ACS valid with all years assessed. Not sure what made the CO to consider the new ACS rules though he had the valid ACS in this case.

Is this something with the EOI submitted date?


----------



## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi Garrying,

Please check this link. This has a service for the people who got their application refused. I have been following Acacia for quite a long time by now and I guess this might give you an expert advice. But this comes with a charge of $140.

http://www.acacia-au.com/urgent-assistance.php


----------



## divyap (May 11, 2013)

garrying said:


> Hello all,
> 
> To clear some doubts here:
> 
> ...


Im sorry and hope things get good for you soon.. 

But only one puzzle left to be solved before arriving at a conclusion. 

Did you have "form16" or "bank statements" for the deducted years? 
I see you had mentioned about payslips and reference letters but not abt these.. 

Recently all COs are very particular abt either one of these.. Was this also taken Care in your case? 

Awaiting your reply...


----------



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Looks like CO's reply indicated clearly that they are carrying their new internal rules for checking applicant's applications. Especially for 'skilled employment' parts.

As quoted from this thread, the latest DIAC internal Instruction mentioned:



> 16.2 When can employment be considered skilled
> 
> For employment to be awarded points under Schedule 6D, it must meet three requirements:
> 
> ...


Here unfortunately, ACS has a standard set for skilled employment which is 'Summary of Criteria' file. So CO's judgement is based on ACS's criteria pdf file as cut 2 years from his total 5 years, cause applicant has an closely occupation related oversea Computer Science degree which requires exactly 2 years oversea work experience for qualifying the skilled employment.


The only thing unfair we could see is that those applicants themselves actually didnt know such new rules or new ACS standard when they lodged their application in the past, but they are judged by those new rules and DIAC is using non-public internal instruction rules which updated day-to-day to determine applicant's application. They own the last word to reject.

H


----------



## Pooja Srivastava (May 18, 2013)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


Hi,

It is not clear from your post that whether point was deducted for your experience or wife's 5 point?

Did you submitted wife's IELTS and ACS letter for claiming spouse's point?


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

I think my visa application is going to get rejected....

I submitted my EOI on Jun and got invite in Jul.

When I filled up my EOI, I put my experience stated by ACS without noticing the clause "After...". I paid the fee and lodged the application.

Now, after reading all this in the forum, I realized that my experience was reduced by 2 years. I had claimed for 8 years experience and looking at it now, I have only 6 years experience in 261313 which I can claim under the skill.

I do not know what I have to do now... I thought I had 65 points and claimed for it but now it looks like only 60 points.

I am not sure what next steps I have to take...

- should I go for ACS again and claim for more experience? I have 10 years of experience but claimed only 8 thinking that would be sufficient. I am worried about the timelines of ACS. Because of my age, if I do not get invite by Nov end, I will loose 10 points.

- should I go for another EOI with 60 points? I do not know if it is possible. My application is still in progress and CO is not allocated yet. Also, now it looks like the chances of getting invite with 60 points is very less.

- should I wait for CO and take a decision? Probably I can convince him by giving all my 10 year experience.

I am totally confused and shattered.


----------



## Australia1 (Apr 29, 2013)

j-ind2oz said:


> I think my visa application is going to get rejected....
> 
> I submitted my EOI on Jun and got invite in Jul.
> 
> ...


If you are sure that you over-claimed, best would be to withdraw the application before CO actually rejects it. At worst you will lose your fee but be able to apply again. You should consider taking professional advice though.


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

If I withdraw my application, I will loose AUD 5000+

Moreover, is it possible to get invitation with 60 points?


----------



## Dieti (Jul 30, 2013)

I feel your frustration but you know it already the chance is slim. You could try to upload all the evidence for the experience you didn't present to ACS with an honest note for your CO why you didn't do then and why now? (when I was uploading my files, I uploaded a note for my CO for some mistake I made as advised by DIAC) I saw a case where the applicant was informed by their CO to withdraw their application and got refunded for an innocent mistake too. W While waiting for the decision, I'm not so sure if you can create a new EOI in the queue. 



j-ind2oz said:


> If I withdraw my application, I will loose AUD 5000+
> 
> Moreover, is it possible to get invitation with 60 points?


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

Dieti said:


> I feel your frustration but you know it already the chance is slim. You could try to upload all the evidence for the experience you didn't present to ACS with an honest note for your CO why you didn't do then and why now? (when I was uploading my files, I uploaded a note for my CO for some mistake I made as advised by DIAC) I saw a case where the applicant was informed by their CO to withdraw their application and got refunded for an innocent mistake too. Meanwhile waiting for the decision, I'm not so sure if you can create a new EOI in the queue.


Thanks Dieti.

I also feel that I should wait for CO and upload all the evidence for experience that I didn't present to ACS.

Anyone got any experience or know if new EOI can be submitted while one is in process?


----------



## msvayani (Feb 14, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> I think my visa application is going to get rejected....
> 
> I submitted my EOI on Jun and got invite in Jul.
> 
> ...


In addition to upload all your documents, you should also upload "Form 1023 - Notification of incorrect answers" and let the CO know what mistake you have done and what you have intended to do. This form is being used to notify the CO any mistakes/errors in the application. 

My friend added his parents into the application by mistake and later filled this form to remove them from the application.

Hope this helps.


----------



## msvayani (Feb 14, 2012)

Sorry to hear what Garrying has been going through. It's really unfortunate.

Even though I have applied in June 2012 and got CO in July 2012, I am still waiting for the SC to be completed. 

I'm a bit worried after reading this thread about the chances of new ACS rule could be applied on me? If it does, I might be refused. I sincerely hope it doesn't. 

What you guys think.


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

msvayani said:


> Sorry to hear what Garrying has been going through. It's really unfortunate.
> 
> Even though I have applied in June 2012 and got CO in July 2012, I am still waiting for the SC to be completed.
> 
> ...


if possible, you can contact your CO and ask what's going on with acs results?


----------



## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


Did you or your agent put the case in MRT ????

That is the only hope we do have now.....

I feel so down for you ....


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

msvayani said:


> In addition to upload all your documents, you should also upload "Form 1023 - Notification of incorrect answers" and let the CO know what mistake you have done and what you have intended to do. This form is being used to notify the CO any mistakes/errors in the application.
> 
> My friend added his parents into the application by mistake and later filled this form to remove them from the application.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Can form 1023 be used for correction in points claimed?


----------



## findraj (Sep 24, 2012)

divyap said:


> Im sorry and hope things get good for you soon..
> 
> But only one puzzle left to be solved before arriving at a conclusion.
> 
> ...


If the CO was not happy with the evidence or conducted verification of the previous employment and deducted 5 points, CO would mention that he/she is not satisfied with the proof, they take a long time to do this, because the CO has to mention that they tried conducting verification and found the following discrepancies. They give the person a chance to explain, even if CO thinks false documentation is provided. Because if they dont do it properly, and if the applicant goes to MRT, DIAC has to prove their case of rejecting the application.

Its got nothing to do with Form 16 and Bank Statements I believe. Rules usually change in July. One has to be careful.

I feel sorry for the OP and angry at DIAC for not giving a chance to withdraw. But I strongly feel that he should go to MRT consult an Immigration Lawyer.
Raj


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

msvayani said:


> In addition to upload all your documents, you should also upload "Form 1023 - Notification of incorrect answers" and let the CO know what mistake you have done and what you have intended to do. This form is being used to notify the CO any mistakes/errors in the application.
> 
> My friend added his parents into the application by mistake and later filled this form to remove them from the application.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Will CO allow me to do another assessment on my experience? I will be claiming the experience that I had at the time of lodging EOI, but it was not completely assessed by ACS. Will it be a valid point?


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm sorry for asking too many questions... but I am too worried....

My 189 application is in progress and could be rejected. Can I apply for NSW state sponsorship(190)? 
Do I have to withdraw the application before applying SS? I am very new to this... how to get SS for NSW?
I am searching for the info... but any link would greatly help

Thank you!


----------



## Dieti (Jul 30, 2013)

Have you ever heard of 6 occupations? I check if yours is one of them. 

www.expatforum.com/expats/australia...iac-announcement-new-rules-professionals.html




j-ind2oz said:


> I'm sorry for asking too many questions... but I am too worried....
> 
> My 189 application is in progress and could be rejected. Can I apply for NSW state sponsorship(190)?
> Do I have to withdraw the application before applying SS? I am very new to this... how to get SS for NSW?
> ...


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

Yes, mine is one of them - 
SOFTWARE ENGINEER (261313)

But I read in other threads that they started clearing the pipeline for those 6 occupants... and giving invites... can I also apply?


----------



## Dieti (Jul 30, 2013)

Why not? There is no harm in doing that. Keep on searching regarding your impending application. Do whatever you can to back up evidence for the experience you didn't claim earlier. 

Keep hanging in there. 





j-ind2oz said:


> Yes, mine is one of them -
> SOFTWARE ENGINEER (261313)
> 
> But I read in other threads that they started clearing the pipeline for those 6 occupants... and giving invites... can I also apply?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...



I am in the same boat. I lodged my application few days back.


----------



## nicky_8022 (Jul 22, 2013)

What is this ACS - After clause... i am sailing in the same boat - got my ACS done by Dec 2012 - 
EOI by 23 Mar 2013 / got my invite by 01Jul2013 
.
Applied for 65 points (with 3 + years of overseas experience)
.
Now seeing this thread... i am really worried 
.
Please advise....


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

nicky_8022 said:


> What is this ACS - After clause... i am sailing in the same boat - got my ACS done by Dec 2012 -
> EOI by 23 Mar 2013 / got my invite by 01Jul2013
> .
> Applied for 65 points (with 3 + years of overseas experience)
> ...


ACS is reducing overseas experience by 2 years if your education is not in Australia.

https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> ACS is reducing overseas experience by 2 years if your education is not in Australia.
> 
> https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf


This is an old change now. The issue is with the applicants with ACS results in old format.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

garrying said:


> Hello all,
> 
> To clear some doubts here:
> 
> ...


Bro is your agent MARA certified?


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Guys,
May i know what is the main reason for being so panic about our old acs if you could read other threads where people are just going on with normal procedures even with old acs see the link below 
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a-applicants-waiting-co-1233.html#post1568553
today one of our members got granted mindfreak. 
I still dont knw why we are getting so upset about, now about the main person who started this thread, we dont knw wat is the actual image of his case, so i believe that we have to follow threads where actual applicants are getting grand without any such issues.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> Guys,
> May i know what is the main reason for being so panic about our old acs if you could read other threads where people are just going on with normal procedures even with old acs see the link below
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a-applicants-waiting-co-1233.html#post1568553
> today one of our members got granted mindfreak.
> I still dont knw why we are getting so upset about, now about the main person who started this thread, we dont knw wat is the actual image of his case, so i believe that we have to follow threads where actual applicants are getting grand without any such issues.


The thread you mentioned is for subclass 190 and this is for subclass 189. I read it somewhere that if state sponsorship exists, DIAC doesnt check much. i Tried but there is no one like this who got a grant in subclass 189.

And i guess this change is for the people who lodged there application on or after 16th august.


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> ACS is reducing overseas experience by 2 years if your education is not in Australia.
> 
> https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf


Is this two years relevant experience or irrelevant experience?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

samkalu said:


> Is this two years relevant experience or irrelevant experience?


relevent


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Birender said:


> The thread you mentioned is for subclass 190 and this is for subclass 189. I read it somewhere that if state sponsorship exists, DIAC doesnt check much. i Tried but there is no one like this who got a grant in subclass 189.
> 
> And i guess this change is for the people who lodged there application on or after 16th august.


oh ok now im also started to get panic  . If so then , do u think this tread starter has applied after 16th aug, and Co assigned so fast..? i mean it is just my doubt. I will loose my point too if this is the case for 189


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Is this two years relevant experience or irrelevant experience?


Two years relevant experience.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> oh ok now im also started to get panic  . If so then , do u think this tread starter has applied after 16th aug, and Co assigned so fast..? i mean it is just my doubt. I will loose my point too if this is the case for 189


I dont think he has applied on or after 16th august. Most probably, he might have submitted his application around june/july and got CO allocated after 16th august and hence as per new rules 2 years deduction


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> oh ok now im also started to get panic  . If so then , do u think this tread starter has applied after 16th aug, and Co assigned so fast..? i mean it is just my doubt. I will loose my point too if this is the case for 189


The thread starter got the invite on 6th May, which is after the new rule in April.

I wish it was considered for applicants after 16th Aug....


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> oh ok now im also started to get panic  . If so then , do u think this tread starter has applied after 16th aug, and Co assigned so fast..? i mean it is just my doubt. I will loose my point too if this is the case for 189


Bro i am in the same boat. This is a very bad feeling. Money, plans everything is on stake.

I doubt about the allocation of CO so fast. You have a point here.

But there is a change in the policy on 16th august , you can check the second page of the same thread.

let me know incase you get an update.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> Bro i am in the same boat. This is a very bad feeling. Money, plans everything is on stake.
> 
> I doubt about the allocation of CO so fast. You have a point here.
> 
> ...


can u update your signature pls


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> The thread starter got the invite on 6th May, which is after the new rule in April.
> 
> I wish it was considered for applicants after 16th Aug....


But there are people who got GRANTS after that. 

This is not making sense to me. I guess may be CO was not in a good mood.


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Birender said:


> Bro i am in the same boat. This is a very bad feeling. Money, plans everything is on stake.
> 
> I doubt about the allocation of CO so fast. You have a point here.
> 
> ...


i would like to suggest, some one should contact CO directly and ask about this to get confirm.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> But there are people who got GRANTS after that.
> 
> This is not making sense to me. I guess may be CO was not in a good mood.


They are trying to earn more and more money by denying VISA's to people like Garry and so that his place can be allocated to some one else in next invitation round and get money from that candidate too  

they have mentioned it in their website as well

*people our business*​


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

So if we go for 190, then no such issues, i mean ss has more sense than DIAC...


----------



## findraj (Sep 24, 2012)

Birender said:


> . I guess may be CO was not in a good mood.


Nope, I dont think DIAC employees work like our passport officers..


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

findraj said:


> Nope, I dont think DIAC employees work like our passport officers..


One more scenario can be, that there is a wrong reason given for rejection.

Or the work experience which relevant for ACS was not relevant for DIAC. But in that case reason for rejection would have been different.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Guys check this out.

This girl "kittydoll" got her grant today for 189. she has old ACS format letter and lodged her application on 11th July. As she got grant today means new exp assessment rules would have been in place for her as well.Her CO might be in good mood or it was bad luck for Garry to be denied the VISA. 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...3-189-190-visa-applicants-37.html#post1567345

261111 BA 189 IELTS(8) ACS(Mar01) EOI(Mar04) Invite(Jul01) Lodged(Jul11) Meds(done-Jul16) PCC(Aus14Aug13,Om7Nov12,Ind-27Aug13) CO (Aug20 AdL T4 MB) Grant(TODAY) 

Please comment


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Guys check this out.
> 
> This girl "kittydoll" got her grant today for 189. she has old ACS format letter and lodged her application on 11th July. As she got grant today means new exp assessment rules would have been in place for her as well.Her CO might be in good mood or it was bad luck for Garry to be denied the VISA.
> 
> ...


Bro. Sorry but check this 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...91-subclass-189-invites-awaiting-co-1194.html

She didint claim points for work ex.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> Bro. Sorry but check this
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...91-subclass-189-invites-awaiting-co-1194.html
> 
> She didint claim points for work ex.


Damn thats really depressing.There is one more guy though 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...513-july-2013-189-190-visa-applicants-38.html

Not sure though his ACS was in old format or new format as he filed EOI on 8th April.Any idea ??


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Damn thats really depressing.There is one more guy though
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...513-july-2013-189-190-visa-applicants-38.html
> 
> Not sure though his ACS was in old format or new format as he filed EOI on 8th April.Any idea ??


asked him for the details. Lets see what he got for us.

I got this in between:

Subclass 189 (System Analyst) : EOI- 8th April,2013 || invite- 1st July ,2013 || Lodged : 3rd July || Medical: ,27th July 2013 || CO- Today|| Grant- Today

not sure about details. Lets see what happens.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Damn thats really depressing.There is one more guy though
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...513-july-2013-189-190-visa-applicants-38.html
> 
> Not sure though his ACS was in old format or new format as he filed EOI on 8th April.Any idea ??


oh the details i have given, it is for the same guy you mentioned.

He got CO allocated today and got the grant as well.

I am sure now, that this depends upon CO which is allocated to you.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> oh the details i have given, it is for the same guy you mentioned.
> 
> He got CO allocated today and got the grant as well.
> 
> I am sure now, that this depends upon CO which is allocated to you.


Yes might be possible.But if you look at this EOI submission date its 8th April. So it can be possible he recieved his ACS between 1 to 7 April.If that is the case he might be having new format of ACS letter.So he is perfectly fine as per new ACS format and new DIAC rules.

wat do u think


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Yes might be possible.But if you look at this EOI submission date its 8th April. So it can be possible he recieved his ACS between 1 to 7 April.If that is the case he might be having new format of ACS letter.So he is perfectly fine as per new ACS format and new DIAC rules.
> 
> wat do u think


i agree. Except the similar scenario where there was no points claimed for Work ex, or reducing work ex didn't affect point score.


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## eques (Aug 31, 2013)

Guys, I'm really sorry fo garrying, if his story is true. But I can't help thinking that there might be something wrong there. He gave us some strange information (for example about diac policy which has changed since 16 August, gave us some citations) and stop replying any more. Meanwhile, I tried to find any information he gave us in the Internet, and I couldn't.
It's just my peculiar opinion. I'm just wondering, is there anybody who agrees with me?


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

eques said:


> Guys, I'm really sorry fo garrying, if his story is true. But I can't help thinking that there might be something wrong there. He gave us some strange information (for example about diac policy which has changed since 16 August, gave us some citations) and stop replying any more. Meanwhile, I tried to find any information he gave us in the Internet, and I couldn't.
> It's just my peculiar opinion. I'm just wondering, is there anybody who agrees with me?


I have to disagree with you eques. Why would he lie or give false information.Rules manual you cannot find online anywhere on the net. It is available only to CO's and registered MARA agents.He had hired MARA agent from him he might have got this updated DIAC policy. Thats what i think.


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## noobrex (Apr 17, 2012)

remove this thread its crap


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## noobrex (Apr 17, 2012)

If this is done then there would be serious implications from people and they might just sue


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## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

noobrex said:


> remove this thread its crap


I just wish you are right


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## Going there (Jul 3, 2013)

If thats a real case, I feel very sorry for anyone who would happen to face such a terrible experience. But to make everything fair, as many people have become emotionaly involved in this thread, it would be correct if Garry could post a full answer which he has received from CO, without any extracts. Garry, could you do that for us to make the situation clear here, because these stipulations will not do any good to anyone.


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

kmann said:


> Guys check this out.
> 
> This girl "kittydoll" got her grant today for 189. she has old ACS format letter and lodged her application on 11th July. As she got grant today means new exp assessment rules would have been in place for her as well.Her CO might be in good mood or it was bad luck for Garry to be denied the VISA.
> 
> ...



Kitty is onshore too ( Education in OZ I think) so would not require a post qualification experience to be "Skilled" in any case


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

kmann said:


> It is available only to CO's and registered MARA agents.He had hired MARA agent from him he might have got this updated DIAC policy. Thats what i think.


If this guidance is only available to CO Teams/MARA agents then how would applicants with know that they have to consider any post qualification related experience period that is needed for them to get skilled

The simplest thing I would suggest Garry to do is to ask the CO the sections mentioned and the content where are they available for public guidance ? as most of us could not find them

If they do exist some where what was the publish date ?

I am also an applicant with ACS report in old format applied against an invite ( for 65 Points) details of assessment I have pasted in the 1st/2nd page of the thread trust me the worry is killing


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

What I am also surprised at the Garrying case is that he went through a MAARA agent ( he hasnt confirmed if MAARA agent or other but I guess its a good assumption unless I have missed something) 

And the MAARA agent didnt know this clause ? I mean thats what agents are for they are the SME's then how does DIAC expect individual applicants to know this , we are missing some thing in the whole story


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> And the MAARA agent didnt know this clause ? I mean thats what agents are for they are the SME's then how does DIAC expect individual applicants to know this , we are missing some thing in the whole story


As per post by Garrying, this change comes in place from Aug 16 onwards, so at the time of lodgement this wasn't in place and suddenly it came into picture on aug 16 and denied him the VISA. GOD knows wats going on with DIAC.

I have no clue here. guess we need to wait for other applicants hoping they do get visa using old format letter.


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## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> i agree. Except the similar scenario where there was no points claimed for Work ex, or reducing work ex didn't affect point score.


Pls see this :

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...91-subclass-189-invites-awaiting-co-1197.html

This guy "annacarolinas" got grant today with old ACS format claiming all the experience (around 6 in total). Though his total points score was 70.even if CO has deducted 5 or 10 points as per new rules still he has required 60 points.

Wat u reckon !!! Your thoughts !!!


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## pandakou (Oct 2, 2012)

kmann said:


> Pls see this :
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...91-subclass-189-invites-awaiting-co-1197.html
> 
> ...


I am requesting Garrying to respond to all of us if possible and also I wish everything would be going fine for him...


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Yes we need inputs from Garrying ( I understand he would caught up with working options ) and all others offshore who have got a grant for SC 189 in the last month we basically need time lines and ACS evaluation to arrive at some thing sensible but the problem is there arent many who lodged around this time who have a grant in SC 189/off shore

Seriousily this is stressful


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Pls see this :
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/126991-subclass-189-invites-awaiting-co-1197.html
> 
> ...


If they would have reduced the points, they would not have processed the application.
I read somewhere that points you claim should be equal to or more than what DIAC calculate. So we can treat him as one lucky chap.


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## AM (May 29, 2013)

i mightnt be a great person to comment but it also depends on when he completed his education. my case my education got completed on 2010 only while i am working from 2005. 
acc to immi site, education can be replaced with 3 years exp . Even though VETASSESS assessed right from Mar 2005, i am considering only from May 2008 as skilled to make sure i am in safer side for points. once we get that detail, i can comment


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Birender said:


> If they would have reduced the points, they would not have processed the application.
> I read somewhere that points you claim should be equal to or more than what DIAC calculate. So we can treat him as one lucky chap.


Agree unless she had 7 years of approved experience from ACS which on deducting 2 years wouldn't disturb the points  off course this would be a one off special case hence I asked her ACS letter , hope we get to see it

BTW whats your time line do update your signature


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

ojhaa said:


> Agree unless she had 7 years of approved experience from ACS which on deducting 2 years wouldn't disturb the points  off course this would be a one off special case hence I asked her ACS letter , hope we get to see it
> 
> BTW whats your time line do update your signature


Sure i will do it soon.. fyi.. i lodged my application last monday.. and got acs in old format.. points are 60 and i am claiming 5 points for work ex...  i am hell lot of scared


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Birender said:


> Sure i will do it soon.. fyi.. i lodged my application last monday.. and got acs in old format.. points are 60 and i am claiming 5 points for work ex...  i am hell lot of scared


We are all scared , Money / Time / Efforts / Hopes & Dreams all at stake


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

ojhaa said:


> We are all scared , Money / Time / Efforts / Hopes & Dreams all at stake


Bro i just started usig this app. And cannot see ur signature. Please share your time line.


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Birender said:


> Bro i just started usig this app. And cannot see ur signature. Please share your time line.


IELTS (7) Dec 12 | 261111 - ICT BA ACS +Ve :Mar 13 | EOI Submitted 65 Points Mar 13 | Invite 189 : 01 July 13 | Lodge 18 July 13| PCC 22 July 13 | Meds : 08 Aug 13 |CO Awaited

5 Experience points claimed with old Format ACS report


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## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi Guys,

This is what i found on immigration website.

*In assessing skilled employment, case officers would consider requirements set by the relevant assessing authority and their Points Advice if the supporting documentation provided by the applicant is insufficient to support their claim.*


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

ojhaa said:


> IELTS (7) Dec 12 | 261111 - ICT BA ACS +Ve :Mar 13 | EOI Submitted 65 Points Mar 13 | Invite 189 : 01 July 13 | Lodge 18 July 13| PCC 22 July 13 | Meds : 08 Aug 13 |CO Awaited
> 
> 5 Experience points claimed with old Format ACS report


Best of luck bro.. hope we get our grants soon..


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

shyam said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> This is what i found on immigration website.
> 
> In assessing skilled employment, case officers would consider requirements set by the relevant assessing authority and their Points Advice if the supporting documentation provided by the applicant is insufficient to support their claim.


Can you please explain this? I didnt get it


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## divyap (May 11, 2013)

Birender said:


> Can you please explain this? I didnt get it


Ya. Me too..


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## Dieti (Jul 30, 2013)

Google is our best friend.  

Skills assessments


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## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

Sorry for my earlier post that was brief. I guess that is not relevant to the discussions here.

Actually it was an answer to one of the question on the blog.



> Q.In what circumstance will applicants be required by case officers to provide Points Advice issued by assessing authority? I heard that some people didn’t provide any Points Advice from assessing authority and still claim work experience points successfully, while some people with same occupations are required to provide Points Advice to claim work experience points. Does it depend on individual case officers? Thanks
> 
> A.Thank you for your comment.
> In assessing skilled employment, case officers would consider requirements set by the relevant assessing authority and their Points Advice if the supporting documentation provided by the applicant is insufficient to support their claim.
> I hope this answers your question.


However, i found another Q&A on the blog i guess this is bit closer. But nowhere i can find why CO reduced points even with the Old Assessment letter.



> Q. Is there a minimum employment experience threshold needed to apply for a Skilled Independent (subclass 189) visa through SkillSelect?
> 
> A. There is no minimum employment experience threshold for this visa type. However, some assessing authorities may require a certain amount of employment experience to achieve a suitable skills assessment. If you have skilled employment experience, you can use this to increase your points in the points test.


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi guys,

Apologies for not being able to reply. I am working out things with my migration agent. Please be advised whatever has been written earlier is 100% correct to my knowledge. I am still not sure on what grounds caused CO to refuse application.

*I am really interested in knowing if someone recently got grant through 60points and old ACS assessment letter.*

All I know is that it's terrible experience for my family and has been waste of time and money so far. And it has hurt us badly..I hope immigration doesn't treat us as cash cows as they keep jacking up their fees and also giving refusal even after getting 60points. Very stressful and agonizing


PS: I am not able to reply to all individual responses due to time constraints.


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## mandeeps (Apr 5, 2013)

garrying said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Apologies for not being able to reply. I am working out things with my migration agent. Please be advised whatever has been written earlier is 100% correct to my knowledge. I am still not sure on what grounds caused CO to refuse application.
> 
> ...


Could you plz share your timeline.


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## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

garrying said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Apologies for not being able to reply. I am working out things with my migration agent. Please be advised whatever has been written earlier is 100% correct to my knowledge. I am still not sure on what grounds caused CO to refuse application.
> 
> ...


Dear Garrying ,

Appreciate your effort to confirm on the accuracy of the details and acknowledging our posts/ queries

Understand you will be really busy and more so disturbed trying to work out options really hope things work out fine for you and this phase comes to an end fast

However whenever you do have some time please do try responding to the posts so that the others can draw some analogy as to whats in store thanks in advance and good luck


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Anyone here is a MARA agent. Can he/she verify if the changes mentioned by garrying present in the manual?


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## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

Birender said:


> Anyone here is a MARA agent. Can he/she verify if the changes mentioned by garrying present in the manual?


It seems the issue exist with only the 189 visa seekers. One of the expat got the Visa today under 190 subclass. He claimed total 5 years of experience and he used the old ACS format letter.

This is something to worry.

Looks like irrespective of the ACS letter the CO might consider the experience only as mentioned in the ACS summary criteria. But this might be the case if the applicant does not provide enough evidence to prove the experience or I feel this could be for the guys who Submitted the EOI after the ACS rule change.

My 2 cents.


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

shyam said:


> It seems the issue exist with only the 189 visa seekers. One of the expat got the Visa today under 190 subclass. He claimed total 5 years of experience and he used the old ACS format letter.
> 
> This is something to worry.
> 
> ...


There is no particular pattern. 

Because DIAC follows same manual for 190 as well as for 189. 

Only god and DIAC knows what they are doing. 

Man this is a mess, guys go to temples, say your prayers. Only god can save us now.


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## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

just to add another interesting fact,
one of my friend applied for NSW ss with new format where a date is mentioned but he claimed points for ENTIRE period.

as NSW SS is approved, the OP's claim on exp points cannot be simply declined by DIAC as it is accepted by NSW.

if we have to stick to 16 Aug rules then the OP must be refused as he claimed for entire period but since SS is approved what should DIAC do?? Refuse??


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## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

rahu said:


> just to add another interesting fact,
> one of my friend applied for NSW ss with new format where a date is mentioned but he claimed points for ENTIRE period.
> 
> as NSW SS is approved, the OP's claim on exp points cannot be simply declined by DIAC as it is accepted by NSW.
> ...


may i knw when did he apply, and wat is his code


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## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

rahu said:


> just to add another interesting fact,
> one of my friend applied for NSW ss with new format where a date is mentioned but he claimed points for ENTIRE period.
> 
> as NSW SS is approved, the OP's claim on exp points cannot be simply declined by DIAC as it is accepted by NSW.
> ...


I have seen that DIAC is not much considering for 190, as coz its states inivitation, and they (ss) check everything before giving us invitation.


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## ssaditya (Jul 22, 2013)

hope the best only god should help us


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## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

I have applied for 189 with entire period using new format....


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## ssaditya (Jul 22, 2013)

j-ind2oz said:


> I have applied for 189 with entire period using new format....


did u get invitation if not go to eoi and change it


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## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

ssaditya said:


> did u get invitation if not go to eoi and change it


I got the invite and applied paying AUD 5500....

I was not aware of this new rule and I completely overlooked the "after.." clause...

Now I have not other way but wait for the visa refusal mail...


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> I got the invite and applied paying AUD 5500....
> 
> I was not aware of this new rule and I completely overlooked the "after.." clause...
> 
> Now I have not other way but wait for the visa refusal mail...


i think you will get the grant.


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## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

Birender said:


> i think you will get the grant.


At least someone has told me something good.... Thanks Birender

I just realized about this issue only after reading this thread.... when I checked my ACS letter after reading this, I was shocked and shattered! 
I am not able to sleep from the past two days...


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> At least someone has told me something good.... Thanks Birender
> 
> I just realized about this issue only after reading this thread.... when I checked my ACS letter after reading this, I was shocked and shattered!
> I am not able to sleep from the past two days...


Bro its just the matter of luck. In case they would have been rejecting the applications the way they did for garring, there would have been many till now.

I am sure garring will get a way out and get a grant.

The rejection is base less.


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

j-ind2oz said:


> At least someone has told me something good.... Thanks Birender
> 
> I just realized about this issue only after reading this thread.... when I checked my ACS letter after reading this, I was shocked and shattered!
> I am not able to sleep from the past two days...



Hello does deducting the period reduce the points ? I mean you may have 7 years exp and claimed only 5 points, incase you fall in this case you can I think upload some correction form and still make it through


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## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> Hello does deducting the period reduce the points ? I mean you may have 7 years exp and claimed only 5 points, incase you fall in this case you can I think upload some correction form and still make it through


Actually I could claim more than 12 years of experience... but since DIAC asks and consider only 10 years of experience, I thought of getting assessed only for the past 10 years... I started the assessment process in Jan 13.

I had to work in middle-east for 1.5 years for which I could not get much proof and ACS took only ~8.5 years of experience as relevant, out of which they reduced 2 years. This I didn't notice and went ahead and applied EOI with 8.5 and got invite.

I was claiming 65 points but now after reducing 2 years, I have only 60 points.

I know, I have very little hope... or no hope....

I am thinking to apply for NSW SS if I get the refusal.


----------



## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> may i knw when did he apply, and wat is his code


he lodged visa last 29 Aug with spouse and got SS approved on 8th. in fact, before applying i told him about this AFTER issue. his observation was quite simple: _if i have done anything wrong then please let me know what and how_.


----------



## findraj (Sep 24, 2012)

ok, guys firstly stop spreading negativity around the thread..Yes, one has to hold their nerves..Atleast you are aware of the process, last year when we were applying we thought no 60 pointers would ever be invited but that wasnt true...The entire EOI and Invites were a new thing..No one knew how it worked at all

In 2012, Oct 15 round there were technical glitches and not a single invite was given to anyone and people lost faith on SkillSelect. 

But one has to be patient and everything will go right. 

Have some faith on DIAC, they wont reject all applicants and deduct 5 points for fun. Just hold it. Log out of EF and dont visit for next 2 weeks, if you are too anxious

It can get stressful, but one has to hold it instead of saying only god can save us and we need to go temples and all..

Faith on God is a good thing, but over anticipating could make you lose sleep.

*Do the best and leave the rest. *


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## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

j-ind2oz said:


> Actually I could claim more than 12 years of experience... but since DIAC asks and consider only 10 years of experience, I thought of getting assessed only for the past 10 years... I started the assessment process in Jan 13.
> 
> I had to work in middle-east for 1.5 years for which I could not get much proof and ACS took only ~8.5 years of experience as relevant, out of which they reduced 2 years. This I didn't notice and went ahead and applied EOI with 8.5 and got invite.
> 
> ...


NSW ss is your best bet. since you have done a mistake not noticing the AFTER issue it can be a problem.

but old ACS format viewed in light of new rule change is just plain madness.

if for instance, DIAC declares tomorrow that IELTS 7 would be awarded 0 points then should all the applications be refused just because of this rules change?? 

every rule can change but it must be applicable on the subsequent applicants not on the preceding ones.

if i were the OP of this thread i would have raised it immediately to MRT. the ACS letter clearly states its valid for 24 months and this criteria change is published much later than he got his invitation.


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## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

All,
looks like I'm in the same boat.

I'm a computer science degree holder with 3+ years of work experince in nominated occupation and have obtained my skill assesment on 11th Feb 2013.

I have claimed 5 points for work experience in EOI which I guess are not going to be considered by DIAC since they require 2 years of experince for non-australian ICT major degree holder to be considered as skilled as per link

http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf


First question is - why skillselect is automatically calculating experience for old ACS result format? They should have some option for old ACS result people otherwise people will loose their money unnecessarily.

Old ACS result people are just putting their details in EOI and it's automatically calculates points which is really unfair. 

Very bad, i'm planning withdraw my EOI with 60 points.


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

prattech said:


> All,
> looks like I'm in the same boat.
> 
> I'm a computer science degree holder with 3+ years of work experince in nominated occupation and have obtained my skill assesment on 11th Feb 2013.
> ...


Have you already applied for visa? Withdrawing now will get you refund?


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

j-ind2oz said:


> Have you already applied for visa? Withdrawing now will get you refund?


 
I have only submitted EOI.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

prattech said:


> All,
> looks like I'm in the same boat.
> 
> I'm a computer science degree holder with 3+ years of work experince in nominated occupation and have obtained my skill assesment on 11th Feb 2013.
> ...


Dont withdraw dude . I am also in same situation as yours. Also there has been only one such case otherwise we would have seen lots of threads like this floating.Wait for a week or 2. Alternatively you can apply for SS for Victoria or SA or ACT side by side and get those 5 crucial points


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

kmann said:


> Dont withdraw dude . I am also in same situation as yours. Also there has been only one such case otherwise we would have seen lots of threads like this floating.Wait for a week or 2. Alternatively you can apply for SS for Victoria or SA or ACT side by side and get those 5 crucial points


Yes Kiran, I will keep it there for some time.

Will check if I can improve my IELTS score.

However, this is really bad yaar. Why can't they publish such changes and make update in skillselect system itself, really sick Guys yaar.

Anyways, let wait and do keep me posted and I'll do the same if I come to know any further details.

Thanks.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

prattech said:


> Yes Kiran, I will keep it there for some time.
> 
> Will check if I can improve my IELTS score.
> 
> ...


Yeah Agree . Its really very frustrating and depressing.If you see my post on 12th page there is a guy "annacarolinas" who got grant yesterday with old ACS format claiming all the experience (around 6 in total). So what i think is so far only garrying case is like this where Visa is refused.

In a week or two we will get clear picture whether these rules are really into place or garrying case was exceptional :fingerscrossed:

I hope u will vbe getting invitation in next round as ur Visa date of effect is 1st june, if m nt wrong.


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## Australia1 (Apr 29, 2013)

Do not be so frustrated guys. Visas don't get rejected so easily by COs. CO normally gives a chance to comment on their finding to the applicant as mentioned in the DIAC website. In Garrying's case, he also may have been given the chance to comment on the lack of points. It would be interesting to know if any such emails from CO was received by Garrying before being rejected.


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

kmann said:


> Dont withdraw dude . I am also in same situation as yours. Also there has been only one such case otherwise we would have seen lots of threads like this floating.Wait for a week or 2. Alternatively you can apply for SS for Victoria or SA or ACT side by side and get those 5 crucial points


Is it possible to submit EOI for 190 while 189 is in process?


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

The issue is we are not getting prompt inputs from folks who have got their grants to analyse and conclude I know their are very few but if we get their time line and ACS report snapshot we can at least !

Too much to expect Garrying to post continuously so we can probably just wait till .....


----------



## iamafreak (Aug 29, 2013)

i think each one of us should raise a separate skillselect support request, asking how can they change the process in between.


----------



## meetusingh1308 (Nov 13, 2012)

iamafreak said:


> i think each one of us should raise a separate skillselect support request, asking how can they change the process in between.


Where can we raise such request??


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

iamafreak said:


> i think each one of us should raise a separate skillselect support request, asking how can they change the process in between.


On the basis of single case we cant do that. You never know what the real scenario was in garrying case, because so far no other VISA refusal we heard of due to this change. May be he was not lucky thats wat i think and wait for someone else who has got grant post july having old ACS letter just to analyse.


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Guys I saw the below being posted on one of the posts on the thread

http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf

Any idea when this criteria came into being ? or it was always there and we all , all of us just missed reading it ?


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

The case we must wait to watch an outcome for should be below its offshore / Occupation code suggests ACS / Assessment / Date suggests Old format/ assuming meds weren't refer should get a CO anytime soon


User :VenkatRavinder
Visa SC : 189
Location :*Hyderabad ,India
Occupation :*Software Engineer (261313)
Skills Assesment Applied *:*13-Nov-2012
Skills Assesment Received :*2-Jan-2013
Points Claimed :65
Invite Dated :1-Jul-2013
Visa Lodge Date :*2-Jul-2013

Venkat if you are reading this kindly please post your ACS assessment ( post removing any personal/named references) and keep us posted on CO assignment and your progress It will really be very helpful for many folks like me who are down to prayers thank you


----------



## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

rahu said:


> just to add another interesting fact,
> one of my friend applied for NSW ss with new format where a date is mentioned but he claimed points for ENTIRE period.
> 
> as NSW SS is approved, the OP's claim on exp points cannot be simply declined by DIAC as it is accepted by NSW.
> ...


Even i have applied for the NSW SS and got approved but in my case the state already had my old ACS and it asked for the new ACS. Somehow it worked even after the new ACS.

It could be very controversial if the States have nominated with the new format and the DIAC refuses reducing the experience.

However, the states nominate based on the minimum requirements. If the applicant claims points for 5 years and more then it is again upto DIAC and CO to assign the points to the experience.

The Successful state nominations does not guarantee a Visa. Most importantly the the states nominate only when the applicant reaches the pass points.

The nomination may not be valid if the applicant does not meet the pass points.

I guess i am arguing too much but believe me these are all my biggest fears..


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

We haven't had any thoughts/ posts from Mods on this thread wish we did as their experience or knowledge of any such prior circumstances may serve as guidance


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> We haven't had any thoughts/ posts from Mods on this thread wish we did as their experience or knowledge of any such prior circumstances may serve as guidance


_shel, anj1 u guys dere ??


----------



## noobrex (Apr 17, 2012)

its unnecessary to disuss this here, i am very sure this cant happen. As lots at stake and people who would suffer are too many and they have a right to take a legal course. 

I dont think such thing can happen and personally feel can never happen with almost no notice.

So please close this


----------



## BlackBelt (Jan 18, 2011)

There is one thing you didn't mention. You said you would claiming the 5 points that your wife would get for having appropriate skills. Did you perform a skill evaluation for her college diploma and work experience as well? That would explain the missing 5 points.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

BlackBelt said:


> There is one thing you didn't mention. You said you would claiming the 5 points that your wife would get for having appropriate skills. Did you perform a skill evaluation for her college diploma and work experience as well? That would explain the missing 5 points.


But the reason mentioned by garring clearly states that the issue is with his experience.

he stated "Lastly, I can also see below in points decision record:

The skills assessment and qualification you provided on 02 June 2013 show you hold a Bachelor of Engineering (Computer) completed in 2007. This qualification was assessed by
ACS as comparable to an AQF Bachelor Degree with a major in computing.
The Summary of Criteria shows that an applicant who does not meet the Australian study
requirement but holds a Bachelor Degree with a major in computing requires 2 years of relevant
work experience to meet ACS requirements.
As mentioned above, you had been employed for 69 months at the time of invitation. Less the
24 months required to meet ACS requirements, your skilled employment is assessed as
approximately 45 months."


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

I guess we need to wait further and look at cases as they come up Venkat shouldnt be long


----------



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello all,

Maybe this is the 2nd cases???



Rajeswari G said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I was contacted by my CO 2 days back. I was shocked by seeing that mail.
> 
> ...


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

I think so, but there are positive case too check this link which i asked to one of our memebers (ss28) who got approval on 3rd sep
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a-applicants-waiting-co-1254.html#post1586178


----------



## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> I think so, but there are positive case too check this link which i asked to one of our memebers (ss28) who got approval on 3rd sep
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a-applicants-waiting-co-1254.html#post1586178


Maybe he has an australian qualification..


----------



## tihor (May 2, 2013)

Btw, is this the case with old ACS format letters or for new ACS letters also (with employment after <date>)? In my case, I am holding ACS letter with new format with ACS recognizing employment after Jan 2005. I am claiming points for 8+ years experience.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

bhashmi said:


> Maybe he has an australian qualification..


he is an offshore applicant.


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Guys,
i found one more guy who has old acs got grant:
Jazz2013
IELTS(7.5) - 14/02/13, Skill Assessment (ACS) - 05/04/13, EOI - 06/4/13, Points - 65, Invitation - 21/4/13, Lodged - 01/06/13, CO Assigned - 26/07/13, GRANT - 04/09/13


----------



## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

tihor said:


> Btw, is this the case with old ACS format letters or for new ACS letters also (with employment after <date>)? In my case, I am holding ACS letter with new format with ACS recognizing employment after Jan 2005. I am claiming points for 8+ years experience.


claiming points only AFTER wont be an issue. but the problem is with the first two years. some CO need 2years be deducted (for both old, new acs format) others are simply giving old format a go. 

But new format and full exp claim is a big NO NO. its tough to get through once CO raises the issue. however, with old format being valid for 24 months any visa refusal must be raised to MRT.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

rahu said:


> claiming points only AFTER wont be an issue. but the problem is with the first two years. some CO need 2years be deducted (for both old, new acs format) others are simply giving old format a go.
> 
> But new format and full exp claim is a big NO NO. its tough to get through once CO raises the issue. however, with old format being valid for 24 months any visa refusal must be raised to MRT.


Do you have new ACS format?


----------



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

rahu said:


> But new format and full exp claim is a big NO NO. i


But seems there are successful case also, check here:
But the details not given too much..



ammu1983 said:


> Hi,
> Good news .....Devanand, who applied 189 without considering the deemed date got grand yesterday....


----------



## tihor (May 2, 2013)

rahu said:


> claiming points only AFTER wont be an issue. but the problem is with the first two years. some CO need 2years be deducted (for both old, new acs format) others are simply giving old format a go.
> 
> But new format and full exp claim is a big NO NO. its tough to get through once CO raises the issue. however, with old format being valid for 24 months any visa refusal must be raised to MRT.


I am claiming points from 'AFTER' ACS date only and not my full experience.


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

What is this old and new ACS format? Can someone kindly explain?


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Rushi said:


> What is this old and new ACS format? Can someone kindly explain?


Now ACS is deducting 2 yeras from your Total exp, earlier it was not,


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

sanjeewa said:


> Now ACS is deducting 2 yeras from your Total exp, earlier it was not,


For everyone? But lots of applicants have already received their nomination without any issues. How you identify whether its a old ACS or new? IS there a specific timeline for it?


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Rushi said:


> For everyone? But lots of applicants have already received their nomination without any issues. How you identify whether its a old ACS or new? IS there a specific timeline for it?


it has come since April or may not sure exact date,


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

sanjeewa said:


> it has come since April or may not sure exact date,


not april coz i received mine on 22nd of april with full exp


----------



## tihor (May 2, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> not april coz i received mine on 22nd of april with full exp


I have mine with "AFTER" clause dated 2nd May.


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> not april coz i received mine on 22nd of april with full exp


How many years of experience you have?


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Rushi said:


> How many years of experience you have?


Hi Rushi, 

I would suggest you, if you have ACS result letter with you read it, in there they should have been clearly state the situation, as i know


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Rushi said:


> How many years of experience you have?


acs it is mention my 4.6 years of expp (but they reduced my 3 months), it think just due to start of job date , end of job date of previous company.


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

sanjeewa said:


> Hi Rushi,
> 
> I would suggest you, if you have ACS result letter with you read it, in there they should have been clearly state the situation, as i know


Not reduced, but they reduced my 3 months


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

GUys,
Just read this: it was by ammu1983 on 26th of aug
"Hi,
I just spoke to diac. They made the following statements
They are not aware of the newly introduced deemed date.
If they feel that the mentioned experience is not relevant from the proof given, only then they will go for the opinion of acs.
Again if I can prove that my experience is relevant, they will consider that.
It is the CO who decides what to consider.
She added that if she was in such a situation she would have gone ahead with the application.

So until now they are not aware of the deemed date, may be that is why they are not updating the same in the website.
But acs replies that they are introducing this because of diac
requested to do so. I mentioned this in the call. She could not comment on that."
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...ence-without-considering-acs-deemed-date.html


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> GUys,
> Just read this: it was by ammu1983 on 26th of aug
> "Hi,
> I just spoke to diac. They made the following statements
> ...


Yes it all depends upon CO and his/her awareness about new rules.If they are aware of this new rule definitely they will go by that rule only.This new rule has recently been introduced from 16th Aug I guess. And Ammu spoke to DIAC before that. So we really cant predict wats gonna happen.

Wat u say ??


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> I cannot agree with u, coz she has said that on 26th of aug , if we consider 16th aug as new rules, also how can we say that some COs know and some dont knw. It is not at all possible. It must be general rule given to all COs.


Yes agree with you. Its not possible some COs know and some dont. But we have seen 2 cases in which COs deducted exp already, and some COs which havenot and granted VISA in past few days. So wat will you conclude from it.

Either all are not aware or it entirely depends upon CO mood and how satisfied he/she is with the documents provided.


----------



## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

Birender said:


> Do you have new ACS format?


yes, 1st May.


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

kmann said:


> Yes agree with you. Its not possible some COs know and some dont. But we have seen 2 cases in which COs deducted exp already, and some COs which havenot and granted VISA in past few days. So wat will you conclude from it.
> 
> Either all are not aware or it entirely depends upon CO mood and how satisfied he/she is with the documents provided.


ok now can we analyse how many members can here around, and we found 2 cases negative due to exp deduction, 
Case1: it can be mistake of COs so they can recheck with them , 
case 2: may be applicant may not be able to provide genuine proofs.
case 3: over claimed

we cant just judge with 2 cases upon 1000s of other cases


----------



## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> But seems there are successful case also, check here:
> But the details not given too much..


yes, there are but IF some CO raises q about it then there is no way to defend and you will have no luck even going to MRT either. 

However, for old format the story is different and the refused applicants still can go with MRT because Summary of Criteria was published later and ACS letter is valid for 24 months.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Yes it all depends upon CO and his/her awareness about new rules.If they are aware of this new rule definitely they will go by that rule only.This new rule has recently been introduced from 16th Aug I guess. And Ammu spoke to DIAC before that. So we really cant predict wats gonna happen.
> 
> Wat u say ??


Ammu talked about deamed date. For all the people with old ACS letter there is no such thing. In that case they should stop deducting work experience.


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

sanjeewa said:


> Hi Rushi,
> 
> I would suggest you, if you have ACS result letter with you read it, in there they should have been clearly state the situation, as i know


Thanks Sanjeewa,

They have calculated my experience as 4.6 yrs, and when I was submitting my EOI, I had more than 5 yrs experience. However they haven't mentioned anything special related to expedience in my ACS resut letter...

I submitted my EOI and state on 11th july for 2613 category. Still waiting for a good news


----------



## rahu (Feb 17, 2013)

Rushi said:


> For everyone? But lots of applicants have already received their nomination without any issues. How you identify whether its a old ACS or new? IS there a specific timeline for it?


Indeed, one of my friend also applied for SS with FULL exp and got approval but he has new acs format (2 years deducted). 

if diac play fair then he is up for instant refusal because diac refused 189 applicants based on this. but since he got SS approval now its time to see how diac reacts on this. yet again, for 189 it would be a serious mistake to consider the whole exp risking whole lot of money and undergoing so much mental agony.




-


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Rushi said:


> Thanks Sanjeewa,
> 
> They have calculated my experience as 4.6 yrs, and when I was submitting my EOI, I had more than 5 yrs experience. However they haven't mentioned anything special related to expedience in my ACS resut letter...
> 
> I submitted my EOI and state on 11th july for 2613 category. Still waiting for a good news


its seems you have old format, any way good luck!


----------



## sweettruegod (Aug 7, 2013)

Hi,

After reading all this, I am very much depressed. I got my +ve ACS on May 4 with a statement having "Relavant After" clause. I had show more than 6 yrs of exp and they have deducted four yrs. I was on 55 points (relying on SS of NSW to gain 5 points) considering 10 points of my exp, 30 for my age and 15 from education. Now in ACS letter they have considered exp after Jan 2011 is relevant (my btech is in ECE). so it is even less than 3 yrs. So here m loosing 10 points which bring me to 45 points. I have applied NSW statesponship on 29 july and expecting the result within 2 3 weeks. Can some body advise me what should I do, coz I will get very little time to logde visa. Should I take risk and claim all my exp points or what else...totally blank


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

sweettruegod said:


> Hi,
> 
> After reading all this, I am very much depressed. I got my +ve ACS on May 4 with a statement having "Relavant After" clause. I had show more than 6 yrs of exp and they have deducted four yrs. I was on 55 points (relying on SS of NSW to gain 5 points) considering 10 points of my exp, 30 for my age and 15 from education. Now in ACS letter they have considered exp after Jan 2011 is relevant (my btech is in ECE). so it is even less than 3 yrs. So here m loosing 10 points which bring me to 45 points. I have applied NSW statesponship on 29 july and expecting the result within 2 3 weeks. Can some body advise me what should I do, coz I will get very little time to logde visa. Should I take risk and claim all my exp points or what else...totally blank


Get ielts 7 and proceed you will get 10 points


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Guys, one more person (189) with old acs of complete 8.5 years got grant today without any issue of deduction by CO due to no reason..
Jazz2013
IELTS(7.5) - 14/02/13, Skill Assessment (ACS) - 05/04/13, EOI - 06/4/13, Points - 65, Invitation - 21/4/13, Lodged - 01/06/13, CO Assigned - 26/07/13, GRANT - 04/09/13


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

sweettruegod said:


> Hi,
> 
> After reading all this, I am very much depressed. I got my +ve ACS on May 4 with a statement having "Relavant After" clause. I had show more than 6 yrs of exp and they have deducted four yrs. I was on 55 points (relying on SS of NSW to gain 5 points) considering 10 points of my exp, 30 for my age and 15 from education. Now in ACS letter they have considered exp after Jan 2011 is relevant (my btech is in ECE). so it is even less than 3 yrs. So here m loosing 10 points which bring me to 45 points. I have applied NSW statesponship on 29 july and expecting the result within 2 3 weeks. Can some body advise me what should I do, coz I will get very little time to logde visa. Should I take risk and claim all my exp points or what else...totally blank


How you are trying to claim 10 points for 6+ yrs. To claim 10 points you should have 8 yrs experience I think.. Please check with others as well. You received any confirmation mail regarding the deduction? When did you receive it?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> Guys, one more person (189) with old acs of complete 8.5 years got grant today without any issue of deduction by CO due to no reason..
> Jazz2013
> IELTS(7.5) - 14/02/13, Skill Assessment (ACS) - 05/04/13, EOI - 06/4/13, Points - 65, Invitation - 21/4/13, Lodged - 01/06/13, CO Assigned - 26/07/13, GRANT - 04/09/13


8.5 years and only 65 points. ielts is also valid for 10 points.

He must have claimed less number of points


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Birender said:


> 8.5 years and only 65 points. ielts is also valid for 10 points.
> 
> He must have claimed less number of points


You cannot say 7.7 is overall and i m sure he didnt claim for ielts 
my case even i have 7.5 , but L-8, R-6.5, W-7 and S-7.
i ll check with him for more details


----------



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

rahu said:


> yes, there are but IF some CO raises q about it then there is no way to defend and you will have no luck even going to MRT either.
> 
> However, for old format the story is different and the refused applicants still can go with MRT because Summary of Criteria was published later and ACS letter is valid for 24 months.


Yes, indeed, but there is one statement before the valid date:

*While the ACS is authorised to assess ICT skills assessments, the final decision in awarding points remains with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.*


----------



## sweettruegod (Aug 7, 2013)

Rushi said:


> How you are trying to claim 10 points for 6+ yrs. To claim 10 points you should have 8 yrs experience I think.. Please check with others as well. You received any confirmation mail regarding the deduction? When did you receive it?


Yes it is 10 points only as....5 points are for 3 yrs and 10 for more than 5 less than 8 yrs..


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Harish2013 said:


> Yes, indeed, but there is one statement before the valid date:
> 
> *While the ACS is authorised to assess ICT skills assessments, the final decision in awarding points remains with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.*


But then while applying for EOI they should not calculate points for Work Ex automaitcally.


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

rahu said:


> yes, there are but IF some CO raises q about it then there is no way to defend and you will have no luck even going to MRT either.
> 
> However, for old format the story is different and the refused applicants still can go with MRT because Summary of Criteria was published later and ACS letter is valid for 24 months.


Do we know the official publish date of the summary criteria of ACS from a refrencable source


----------



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> Do we know the official publish date of the summary criteria of ACS from a refrencable source


Check acs.org.au for ACS guideline pdf, it mentioned:



> Version History
> Date
> *16 April 2013*
> Document Version
> ...


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Birender said:


> 8.5 years and only 65 points. ielts is also valid for 10 points.
> 
> He must have claimed less number of points


I got reply from the applicant 
"My points were Age 25, Exp 15 (over 8 yrs), IELTS 10 and Education 15, i.e total 65.
My ACS was old and I submitted my app on 1st June and did not reduce any points in EOI."


----------



## needpr (Jun 21, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> I got reply from the applicant
> "My points were Age 25, Exp 15 (over 8 yrs), IELTS 10 and Education 15, i.e total 65.
> My ACS was old and I submitted my app on 1st June and did not reduce any points in EOI."


So does this mean that DIAC may or may not reduce the years of expirence in case the ACS is of old version?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

needpr said:


> So does this mean that DIAC may or may not reduce the years of expirence in case the ACS is of old version?


They have no specific criteria..


----------



## needpr (Jun 21, 2013)

Birender said:


> They have no specific criteria..


Atleast for now there is one good thing that DIAC is not always reducing the exp years and there are people who are getting grants based on old ACS rules.

Lets be hopeful and may God grant us luck.


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

needpr said:


> Atleast for now there is one good thing that DIAC is not always reducing the exp years and there are people who are getting grants based on old ACS rules.
> 
> Lets be hopeful and may God grant us luck.


For those who applied with an old ACS may find it difficult to match points in the EOI and may end up with a refusal


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Check acs.org.au for ACS guideline pdf, it mentioned:


This is definitely not referenced on the ACS letter old format so those who submitted an EOI before April will never know about it to modify their EOI 

Does any one see this referenced in any public announcement on DIAC or Skill Select


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

ojhaa said:


> This is definitely not referenced on the ACS letter old format so those who submitted an EOI before April will never know about it to modify their EOI
> 
> Does any one see this referenced in any public announcement on DIAC or Skill Select


There is nothing like that there.. what is the fault of the people with old acs..


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Sigh!! took sometime reading through all the posts and I feel sorry for those affected 

My observations are these : 
1. The CO might ask for relevant Points Advice if they see that the uploaded documentation is not proof enough for the points claimed . At least in the case of the OP since he had all his exp. assessed as skilled there would be no reason for the CO to apply a rule that came in on 16th August retrospectively to an applicant who couldn't have had an epiphany that a change can happen . 

2. For 190 applicants this might be fast-tracked as whole or part of the verification can be done by the State that sponsors. After all its a matter getting through the applications quickly and why would they want to waste time on one when they can close a case and go home and chill out right ? May be its not that simple too , may be its just that CO's don't carefully scrutinize applications approved by states because experience and skill are something that states closely watch before nominating.

That said , I want to add further that the OP must spend a little more in availing the services of a good migration lawyer in Aus or in India and put his case up to the Migration Tribunal , if nothing he might at least get back his VISA fee , or best case a grant letter. 

Thanks,
Chethan


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> They r not reducing without any reason, we don't know wat gone wrong with other 2 applicants, hope they will inform us after clarifying with their COs. Proof is must for them, Diac also considering deducted yrs of other applicants too. So it is clear ACS is providing but final decision must be of DIac. We have to wait and see how it flows


How do u knw. That diac is considering deductig yrs of other applicants?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Chetu said:


> Sigh!! took sometime reading through all the posts and I feel sorry for those affected
> 
> My observations are these :
> 1. The CO might ask for relevant Points Advice if they see that the uploaded documentation is not proof enough for the points claimed . At least in the case of the OP since he had all his exp. assessed as skilled there would be no reason for the CO to apply a rule that came in on 16th August retrospectively to an applicant who couldn't have had an epiphany that a change can happen .
> ...


Bro.. please help me understand what OP is here?


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Bro it's Original Poster  I had to rattle my brains a bit too to come up with it and I hope it's that .


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Chetu said:


> Bro it's Original Poster  I had to rattle my brains a bit too to come up with it and I hope it's that .


Oh.. thanks mate.. hope everything goes well


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Birender said:


> How do u knw. That diac is considering deductig yrs of other applicants?


Hmm , I'm not 100 % sure . But when we analyze applicants who received grant we can see 60 s are granted, if they deduct yrs, then how can those applicants can get grant, invite from Ss. It will be more clear to us within weeks,


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

If diac apply this.. there will be arnd 500-600 applications rejected for subclass 189 only.. that will be a big number.. and i think diac cant afford those many applicants going to MRT..


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> If diac apply this.. there will be arnd 500-600 applications rejected for subclass 189 only.. that will be a big number.. and i think diac cant afford those many applicants going to MRT..


Pardon my ignorance !!! wat is MRT ??


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Pardon my ignorance !!! wat is MRT ??


Migration review tribunal...


----------



## InaToAus (Mar 20, 2013)

First, I would suggest that all of us having old letter from ACS and got invite to *GO AHEAD* and apply for Visa claiming all of the experiences. With the vast amount of people applying I am sure that they will be very careful of rejecting applications, else they will be accused as money suckers.

Second, as mentioned before in one of previous post, based on real phone call on 29 August, DIAC people is not aware of the changes, for the changes dated 19 August, until such important changes in regulation (the Procedures Advice Manual or PAM3) verified, let's hold to the latest one verified.

Third, if it happens to be verified, then still the DIAC should refund the fees of the applicant who is holding the old version of ACS letter since the applicant considered not aware of such thing at the date of ACS letter grant.


----------



## noobrex (Apr 17, 2012)

InaToAus said:


> First, I would suggest that all of us having old letter from ACS and got invite to *GO AHEAD* and apply for Visa claiming all of the experiences. With the vast amount of people applying I am sure that they will be very careful of rejecting applications, else they will be accused as money suckers.
> 
> Second, as mentioned before in one of previous post, based on real phone call on 29 August, DIAC people is not aware of the changes, for the changes dated 19 August, until such important changes in regulation (the Procedures Advice Manual or PAM3) verified, let's hold to the latest one verified.
> 
> Third, if it happens to be verified, then still the DIAC should refund the fees of the applicant who is holding the old version of ACS letter since the applicant considered not aware of such thing at the date of ACS letter grant.


In addition take a legal action as well.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

I am waitig for garrying.. what is he upto?


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> I am waitig for garrying.. what is he upto?


Was just checking about MRT and found that application fee for review is around 1600 AUD .LOLz First 3060 for VISA fee then if in case outcome is nt in ur favor then pay additional 1600 ......Sounds interesting


----------



## BGMate (Aug 14, 2013)

prattech said:


> All,
> looks like I'm in the same boat.
> 
> I'm a computer science degree holder with 3+ years of work experince in nominated occupation and have obtained my skill assesment on 11th Feb 2013.
> ...


Hi guys,

I just can't get it - where exactly do you see that 2 years will be deducted?
My husband got his ACS assessment in April. 
He has been assessed as having relevant IT degree Master which ACS assessed as equal to Bachelor and 8+ relevant years of experience.
How I can find if DIAC will accept this?

Thanks


----------



## BGMate (Aug 14, 2013)

noobrex said:


> its unnecessary to disuss this here, i am very sure this cant happen. As lots at stake and people who would suffer are too many and they have a right to take a legal course.
> 
> I dont think such thing can happen and personally feel can never happen with almost no notice.
> 
> So please close this


I completely agree as this cause lots of frustration. 
Let's follow and check this google docs regularly and see if there will be similar cases.


----------



## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

BGMate said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just can't get it - where exactly do you see that 2 years will be deducted?
> My husband got his ACS assessment in April.
> ...


There should be a statement that the skilled level was achieved after month year.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Was just checking about MRT and found that application fee for review is around 1600 AUD .LOLz First 3060 for VISA fee then if in case outcome is nt in ur favor then pay additional 1600 ......Sounds interesting


Man .. everyone is stuck.. what shld be done..


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Birender said:


> Man .. everyone is stuck.. what shld be done..


just hang in bro ! every thing would be ok!


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Birender said:


> Man .. everyone is stuck.. what shld be done..


Pray and hope for the best more im reading and analyising more depressing it gets trying my best to remain shut up


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

ojhaa said:


> Pray and hope for the best more im reading and analyising more depressing it gets trying my best to remain shut up


May be we all are over reacting.
Garring may have a different reason for rejection.
And the other lady, her applications is still not rejected. She is still in talks.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> May be we all are over reacting.
> Garring may have a different reason for rejection.
> And the other lady, her applications is still not rejected. She is still in talks.


Wish u r right :fingerscrossed:


----------



## BGMate (Aug 14, 2013)

tihor said:


> I have mine with "AFTER" clause dated 2nd May.


Hi Tihor,

Can you please explain what is this "After" clause.
Thanks a lot.


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

BGMate said:


> Hi Tihor,
> 
> Can you please explain what is this "After" clause.
> Thanks a lot.


It is there in ACS site - News & Updates | Australian Computer Society


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Wish u r right :fingerscrossed:


Same here bro


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Check acs.org.au for ACS guideline pdf, it mentioned:


Buddy can you paste the URL where you are picking the info many thanks


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> Buddy can you paste the URL where you are picking the info many thanks


Is this the one you are looking for?
http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf


----------



## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

Birender said:


> May be we all are over reacting.
> Garring may have a different reason for rejection.
> And the other lady, her applications is still not rejected. She is still in talks.


Yes buddy.

It seems like a smoke that is causing fear. Hope there is no fire behind it burning many hopes and dreams.


----------



## pandakou (Oct 2, 2012)

Harish2013 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Maybe this is the 2nd cases???


Hey.. any update?


----------



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> Buddy can you paste the URL where you are picking the info many thanks


Hi,
Check here:
Information for Applicants | Australian Computer Society

You will find
http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets...ills-Assessment-Guidelines-for-Applicants.pdf

This is the new version of guideline as released on 16-April-2013, please check the last page for the change history.

On page5, it mentioned below:

_Only employment completed after the date you have met the ACS requirements will be counted as skilled employment. Please see the Summary of Criteria for additional information._

Above statement was not there in earlier version of 20 August 2012.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Harish2013 said:


> Hi,
> Check here:
> Information for Applicants | Australian Computer Society
> 
> ...


But if ACS didnt gave us any date then all the experience can be counted.


----------



## InaToAus (Mar 20, 2013)

kmann said:


> Was just checking about MRT and found that application fee for review is around 1600 AUD .LOLz First 3060 for VISA fee then if in case outcome is nt in ur favor then pay additional 1600 ......Sounds interesting


If I were him, I would rather put that amount to a sponsored tweet as the story here:

BBC News - Promoted tweet used to complain about British Airways

linked to a web hosted in blogspot (to make sure it can serve the amount of requests) and in a very simple way describing the story.

Targeted to countries which most of the intending immigrants came from 

And sit at a comfy :couch2: eat the opcorn:


----------



## OziApplicant (Sep 5, 2013)

Hello Everyone...

Today I got the Golden Grant...Visa Subclass 190 and I am onshore applicant.

Thank you all for your support.

Now to solve your queries Please read below.

My ACS was done LAST YEAR JULY 2012. in that I had 3 Years as India Experience and 2 years of Australia Experience.

I claimed points for 3 years of India Experience and 1 year of Australia Experience.

My points were exactly 60 with State Sponsorship.

I applied in Mid July 2013.

There was no deduction of points from my CO .

Hope this will be useful for everyone.


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

OziApplicant said:


> Hello Everyone...
> 
> Today I got the Golden Grant...Visa Subclass 190 and I am onshore applicant.
> 
> ...



Congratz... And according to my agent this will applicable for people who lodged their ACS after 1st of June 2013. Not for all the applicants....

Anyway wish u all the best !!!


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Rushi said:


> Congratz... And according to my agent this will applicable for people who lodged their ACS after 1st of June 2013. Not for all the applicants....
> 
> Anyway wish u all the best !!!


But garring applied before that.


----------



## iamafreak (Aug 29, 2013)

i really believe CO made a mistake in garring's case. May be he/she didnt notice that his ACS was done before Jun 2013 or may be he/she wasn't aware that this rule is new and shouldn't apply for everyone. He/She might be new as well


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

iamafreak said:


> i really believe CO made a mistake in garring's case. May be he/she didnt notice that his ACS was done before Jun 2013 or may be he/she wasn't aware that this rule is new and shouldn't apply for everyone. He/She might be new as well


I wish the same mate. :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

Birender said:


> But garring applied before that.


Still they reduced your experience??


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Rushi said:


> Still they reduced your experience??


in two cases they did and rejected their application.


----------



## OziApplicant (Sep 5, 2013)

Rushi said:


> Congratz... And according to my agent this will applicable for people who lodged their ACS after 1st of June 2013. Not for all the applicants....
> 
> Anyway wish u all the best !!!


Thanks Rushi. Hope this information will clear so many doubts.


----------



## j-ind2oz (Sep 2, 2013)

Birender said:


> in two cases they did and rejected their application.


Is the rejection finalized?


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

OziApplicant said:


> Hello Everyone...
> 
> Today I got the Golden Grant...Visa Subclass 190 and I am onshore applicant.
> 
> ...


Is your agent an MAARA registered etc ?does he have any official communication that you can check and tell us please thanks and congrats on your grant


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

j-ind2oz said:


> Is the rejection finalized?


Garring's case is finalised i guess.

The other lady, is trying to get some other experience valid.

no updates from either of them


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Birender said:


> Garring's case is finalised i guess.
> 
> The other lady, is trying to get some other experience valid.
> 
> no updates from either of them


Hope we get an update from him (garrying) on progress and response he is planning or given


----------



## OziApplicant (Sep 5, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> Is your agent an MAARA registered etc ?does he have any official communication that you can check and tell us please thanks and congrats on your grant


Hi Ojhaa

Thank you.

I have applied on my own. Not through agent.


----------



## shyam (Jul 11, 2012)

iamafreak said:


> i really believe CO made a mistake in garring's case. May be he/she didnt notice that his ACS was done before Jun 2013 or may be he/she wasn't aware that this rule is new and shouldn't apply for everyone. He/She might be new as well


It looks like the deduction is happening to everyone irrespective of the Format of the ACS or the Subclass of the Visa. 

The deduction is happening mainly for the people who are claiming points for 5 yrs of exp or more.

Applicants claiming points for 3 yrs of exp especially with State Sponsorship might be safe, that too if the SS has 3 years as one of its nomination requirements.

Yes, best to do as said by one of the member here is.. to keep shut until we hear more on the individual cases and from our CO.
Assumptions kills even a strong man.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Except the two people you got deduction in work Ex on this forum. 

Does anyone here know anyone else, who got similar deductions from DIAC??


----------



## Rushi (Aug 29, 2013)

Birender said:


> Except the two people you got deduction in work Ex on this forum.
> 
> Does anyone here know anyone else, who got similar deductions from DIAC??


So far 2 people (as I know)


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Rushi said:


> So far 2 people (as I know)


2 people apart from this forum?


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

Positive skill assessment is given on the basis of https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf


Based on your education assessment by Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF) standard, 
You’ll need certain years of experience (2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 years) to be considered as *skilled*.

After you are considered as skilled (eduaction + some experience), your experience will be calculated either onshore or offshore after being skilled for awarding points.

Rules are same for all and only thing is that this was being ignored by COs with old ACS result format.

*My best guess in future*, DIAC will strictly look in to each guidelines considering huge number of aspirants in ICT sector. Off course, they will look for best out of available.

I would suggest everyone to check summary of criteria & claim points for experience after becoming skilled. Specially, old ACS result holders should update their details properly with the help of criteria on ACS website and save themseleves from getting refusals for VISA in later stages.

-------


----------



## happybuddha (Sep 28, 2012)

Does anyone know which team/CO initials both these cases had ?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

prattech said:


> Positive skill assessment is given on the basis of https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf
> 
> Based on your education assessment by Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF) standard,
> You’ll need certain years of experience (2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 years) to be considered as skilled.
> ...


In old format ACS gives all ur experience as relevent.. thats why everyone claimed points for the same.. now if they reject your application based on that.. that is certainly not fair..


----------



## happybuddha (Sep 28, 2012)

I think another user preet_s393 is also in a similar situation - posted on thread CO team 33 Brisbane


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> I think another user preet_s393 is also in a similar situation - posted on thread CO team 33 Brisbane


He was working and studyig at the same time.. that is a different case


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Birender said:


> He was working and studyig at the same time.. that is a different case


Phew scary


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

Birender said:


> In old format ACS gives all ur experience as relevent.. thats why everyone claimed points for the same.. now if they reject your application based on that.. that is certainly not fair..


 
Birender, 
I understand that process itself has bug where DIAC was ignoring summary of criteria and ACS was also not putting relevent dates in their old letter.

But they have a point to defend that summary of criteria is nothing new and available to everyone and it's client's responsibility to claim points appropriately.Also , Skillselect also does not have any checks on this and points are autocalulated when you add experience there.

Yes, it's not fair for many people like me, you ... But at the end, I don't think they will excempt old people. 
Best guess is that they will give fees back for people like garrying and ask others to update their EOIs.


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

prattech said:


> Positive skill assessment is given on the basis of https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf
> 
> 
> Based on your education assessment by Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF) standard,
> ...


Today I checked with my agent, he was surprised to see some of the applicants including me are scared about our old format of acs, he said it is for the new acs applicants, not for applicants who already got result , if it so then acs need to do again lakhs of applications again from 2012 which would be valid till 2014 which makes no sense. we some here are not just the applicant to aus, but lakhs of them, so don't be panic guys. Also about DIAC, even if a person with new format can be reject for many other reason, it does not mean it is due to old format.


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

prattech said:


> Birender,
> I understand that process itself has bug where DIAC was ignoring summary of criteria and ACS was also not putting relevent dates in their old letter.
> 
> But they have a point to defend that summary of criteria is nothing new and available to everyone and it's client's responsibility to claim points appropriately.Also , Skillselect also does not have any checks on this and points are autocalulated when you add experience there.
> ...



How does an applicant having a old format ACS report know he is supposed to go this link and and look up whats relevant the letter has no mention of it , 

Skill select has no check point or option where you actually specify work ex being considered as part of being skilled 

Any normal applicant would just go ahead with whats on the letter and apply


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

prattech said:


> Birender,
> I understand that process itself has bug where DIAC was ignoring summary of criteria and ACS was also not putting relevent dates in their old letter.
> 
> But they have a point to defend that summary of criteria is nothing new and available to everyone and it's client's responsibility to claim points appropriately.Also , Skillselect also does not have any checks on this and points are autocalulated when you add experience there.
> ...


Bro.. in that case this should have been an official annoucement.. and in that case they should have said hat it is applicable for all the people ven if it is an old letter..

I agree this is a thing to be scared of.. but i guess people like us wont be affected..


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> Today I checked with my agent, he was surprised to see some of the applicants including me are scared about our old format of acs, he said it is for the new acs applicants, not for applicants who already got result , if it so then acs need to do again lakhs of applications again from 2012 which would be valid till 2014 which makes no sense. we some here are not just the applicant to aus, but lakhs of them, so don't be panic guys. Also about DIAC, even if a person with new format can be reject for many other reason, it does not mean it is due to old format.


 
We are talking specific to rejection due to ACS criteria of being skilled and experience deduction.

There are no other reasons of rejection that we are talking here in this thread.

..


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> Today I checked with my agent, he was surprised to see some of the applicants including me are scared about our old format of acs, he said it is for the new acs applicants, not for applicants who already got result , if it so then acs need to do again lakhs of applications again from 2012 which would be valid till 2014 which makes no sense. we some here are not just the applicant to aus, but lakhs of them, so don't be panic guys. Also about DIAC, even if a person with new format can be reject for many other reason, it does not mean it is due to old format.



Buddy is your agent MAARA approved/registered ?


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

I guess this due to upcoming elections, current party in rule is against immigation. It is expected that this year ruling party will change. And currently the opposition is in favour of immigration.. 
If they will come, these crules will loosen up..
Election is tomorrow and monday is the result day.. lets hope for the best


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Birender said:


> I guess this due to upcoming elections, current party in rule is against immigation. It is expected that this year ruling party will change. And currently the opposition is in favour of immigration..
> If they will come, these crules will loosen up..
> Election is tomorrow and monday is the result day.. lets hope for the best


i was thinking current rule party does support that fact immigration :O


----------



## divyap (May 11, 2013)

Birender said:


> I guess this due to upcoming elections, current party in rule is against immigation. It is expected that this year ruling party will change. And currently the opposition is in favour of immigration..
> If they will come, these crules will loosen up..
> Election is tomorrow and monday is the result day.. lets hope for the best


It's quite the opposite.. Immigration(skilled)/work-permit are strongly opposed by the opposition.. 

Only support from the opposition is for the real refugees.... Other than that opposition is ever more fierce in opposing skilled migration and work permits...


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

ojhaa said:


> Buddy is your agent MAARA approved/registered ?


yes they are , and they get information from their office in aus too if ay new rukes are up


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> yes they are , and they get information from their office in aus too if ay new rukes are up


Do keep us updated


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

sure


----------



## ammu1983 (May 20, 2013)

hi,

A simple doubt..How can you all came to a conclusion that those who got rejection is only because diac started considering deemed date. Then how come others are getting their grants irrespective of old or new acs letters. please be patient and wait for any solid evidence. I have applied with new acs letter and spent 5300 dollars. We all are spending this much amount because we want a better future. So its our responsibility to face the outcome.

Be cool friends
Regards 
Ammu


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

Dear All,

I agree with Ammu. Today I got grant claiming all my experience irrespective of deemed date stated by ACS. I had put all my experience those were listed in my ACS letter in EOI and the invite was based on that. CO never asked any documents as I uploaded all my documents upfront.

Hope this brings some relief to those who are tensed with new and old format confusion.


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

joejohn said:


> Dear All,
> 
> I agree with Ammu. Today I got grant claiming all my experience irrespective of deemed date stated by ACS. I had put all my experience those were listed in my ACS letter in EOI and the invite was based on that. CO never asked any documents as I uploaded all my documents upfront.
> 
> Hope this brings some relief to those who are tensed with new and old format confusion.


Thank you joehjon, for giving us such a good relief..


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

As per my observation, the work ex will be deducted if your work experience is not deeply related to your occupation.

In that case DIAC will deduct your work ex.

In case DIAC would start deducting work ex as per ACS, then everyone would have started doing so. They are not fools and i am sure they work in a coordinated environment.

If your can prove that your work ex is as per your occupation, then you can claim it, even if it is not in your ACS letter.


----------



## infopath (May 21, 2013)

Hi,

I have got my PR today with 60 points. I don's see any cut on exp.

Got the ACS on Jan 2013, 

Visa Applied on Jul 15th

Got the PR on Sept 09.
thanks
R


----------



## srinu_srn (Jun 28, 2013)

Congratulations


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

infopath said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have got my PR today with 60 points. I don's see any cut on exp.
> 
> ...


Congratulations infopath.

With this, it is clear that

1. Guys with old format who claimed full experience are getting grant
2. Guys with new format who claimed full experience (without considering reduced experience ) are getting grant

So to conclude, irrespective or old or new format COs are considering all experience for point calculation. Now it is up to the CO to get convinced with the documents you have submitted for your experience.

Hence, if you are confident about the documents you have submitted to claim your experience, you should be good.

Any other thoughts?


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

joejohn said:


> Congratulations infopath.
> 
> With this, it is clear that
> 
> ...


Hi joejohn
For point 2 you mean guys with new experience who only claimed points for the experience after the deeming date ? I thought you claimed experience points for both before and free deeming date.

Please clarify 
Thanks
Chethan


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

Chetu said:


> Hi joejohn
> For point 2 you mean guys with new experience who only claimed points for the experience after the deeming date ? I thought you claimed experience points for both before and free deeming date.
> 
> Please clarify
> ...


I claimed experience points for both before and after deeming date.


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

infopath said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have got my PR today with 60 points. I don's see any cut on exp.
> 
> ...


congrats, im so happy to hear..


----------



## infopath (May 21, 2013)

thanks Guys and All the best to all of you.

R


----------



## ojhaa (Apr 3, 2013)

joejohn said:


> Congratulations infopath.
> 
> With this, it is clear that
> 
> ...


Hmmm .. Hate to come up with annoying observations but the location for infopath shows as " sydeny" Sydney I believe it is so 2 years qualifying experience wont apply to him ................ :flame:


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

0z_dream said:


> can u pls inform us your number of exp of exp, without any deduction


I have 8.5 years of experience in the last 10 years and ACS reduced 2 years out of it. Which means I got only 6.5 years which I can claim as skilled, even though ACS letter has listed 8.5 years of accepted experience. In EOI I had put all 8.5 which ACS has listed and points were calculated based on that.


----------



## infopath (May 21, 2013)

Guys ,
Let me give more details. Came to Sydeny last Feb through indian company and still working with same company. have shown 8.1 years offshore experience and 1 + year of AU experience to claim 20 points(15 offshore & 5 AU) . Total experience i have claimed 9.7 years of experience with same company. 

Let me know if any more details required.

Thanks
R


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

joejohn said:


> I have 8.5 years of experience in the last 10 years and ACS reduced 2 years out of it. Which means I got only 6.5 years which I can claim as skilled, even though ACS letter has listed 8.5 years of accepted experience. In EOI I had put all 8.5 which ACS has listed and points were calculated based on that.


 Hi Joejohn,

Can you plse tell wat all docs u front loaded for proving all the exp u claimed points for ??

Appreciate ur help.

Regards,
Karan


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

infopath said:


> Guys ,
> Let me give more details. Came to Sydeny last Feb through indian company and still working with same company. have shown 8.1 years offshore experience and 1 + year of AU experience to claim 20 points(15 offshore & 5 AU) . Total experience i have claimed 9.7 years of experience with same company.
> 
> Let me know if any more details required.
> ...


 Hi Infopath,

Can you plse tell wat all docs u front loaded for proving all the exp u claimed points for ??

Appreciate ur help.

Regards,
Karan


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

kmann said:


> Hi Joejohn,
> 
> Can you plse tell wat all docs u front loaded for proving all the exp u claimed points for ??
> 
> ...


Below are the documents I provided to claim my experience - 

- Offer letter
- Experience letter
- Reference letter
- Form 16 (each year)
- Payslips (only for current company)


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

joejohn said:


> Below are the documents I provided to claim my experience -
> 
> - Offer letter
> - Experience letter
> ...


Did you get a new experience letter apart from the one you got to submit for ACS?.


----------



## mandeeps (Apr 5, 2013)

Birender said:


> As per my observation, the work ex will be deducted if your work experience is not deeply related to your occupation.
> 
> In that case DIAC will deduct your work ex.
> 
> ...


But friends,

One thing is disturbing me that he has 65 points, so after deducting 2 yrs., he still with 60 points.

So i am not confident on this.

Your thoughts...


----------



## ammu1983 (May 20, 2013)

mandeeps said:


> But friends,
> 
> One thing is disturbing me that he has 65 points, so after deducting 2 yrs., he still with 60 points.
> 
> ...


Hi,
If DIAC reduces points, they will inform us
Ammu


----------



## preet_s393 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hi Joejohn,


had your experince was after qualification???? please tell

as i have old skill assesment with master degree(2011) and 5year Work exp2007-2012) but CO refused to give me 5years points. how can i convince him??


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

Yes, my experience was after qualification.

They do not consider experience before qualification. Does the ACS letter has all your experience listed or it has experience only after 2011?


----------



## preet_s393 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hi joe john


Assesment Format i got:

Your Skill have been assesed to be suitable for migration under 262113( System Administrator) of the ANZSCO Code.

Your Master of Science in Computer and Information Technology from Punjab Technical University Completed September 2011 has been assesed as Comparable to AQF Master Degree with a Major in Computing.

Your work Experiance has been calculated as follow on the basis of full time employment of at least 20 hrs per week:

Dates: 12/07 to 08/12 (4yrs 8mnth)
Position: System Administrator
Employer: ???????
Country: India

Dates: 08-12 to 08-13 (1years)
Position: System Administrator
Employers: ??????
Country: India



please suggest me can i claim for the 5years work exp


----------



## mandeeps (Apr 5, 2013)

preet_s393 said:


> Hi joe john
> 
> Assesment Format i got:
> 
> ...


Hi preet,

They don't consider experience before qualification. When did you apply, and what are your total points?


----------



## preet_s393 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hi mandeep


i appled on 15may 2013 with 60 points and 10 point for my 5years exp + 10 point for MAsters degree.

but mandeep acs Should mention this in the letter that from this date your work should be consider skilled but they did not mentioned.


----------



## abhaytomar (Aug 12, 2013)

preet_s393 said:


> Hi joe john
> 
> 
> Assesment Format i got:
> ...



Hi Preet,
I believe you got your ACS before April 2013, I would suggest you to ask it to ACS through email that what will be the date from which your expereince will be considered as skilled employment.
As ACS has not mentioned the date, DIAC will consider the work experience gained after your assessed qualification and then they will deduct at least two years from your experience and the experience after those two years will be considered as skilled employment and the points are only for skilled employment experience.

Thanks,


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Check this:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...skilled-migration-will-likely-get-easier.html


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

mandeeps said:


> But friends,
> 
> One thing is disturbing me that he has 65 points, so after deducting 2 yrs., he still with 60 points.
> 
> ...


If DIAC reduces your points, they will reject your applications. Even if it is 70.

That means the way you got your invitation was not right, you claimed incorrect points and that is the reason the applicant got invite earlier. Which is not the fair way.


----------



## preet_s393 (Dec 2, 2012)

abhaytomar said:


> Hi Preet,
> I believe you got your ACS before April 2013, I would suggest you to ask it to ACS through email that what will be the date from which your expereince will be considered as skilled employment.
> As ACS has not mentioned the date, DIAC will consider the work experience gained after your assessed qualification and then they will deduct at least two years from your experience and the experience after those two years will be considered as skilled employment and the points are only for skilled employment experience.
> 
> Thanks,



Hi abhaytomar

buddy

i have already applied in 18 may 2013 i was not aware of the new changes made by ACS i had word with ACs and they are not considering the total five years exp 
and i had long debate with them why they not mentioned in ACS letter in that case i will not gamble my AUD 3000


----------



## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

I'm a little confused (and a bit worried). My scenario is as follows:

I made up for a total of 70 points, out of which 15 comes from more than 8 years of work experience. I lodged the Visa under 189 on the 14th of Aug. However I had initially completed a Diploma, post which I started working and then completed my Bachelor's degree (Distance) in 2009, post which I have 3 more years of work-ex. ACS has assessed my Bachelor degree as comparable to AQF Bachelor Degree and work experience has been assessed as follows:

06/02 - 10/09 (7yrs 4mths) (this was in India)
10/09 - 01/13 (3yrs 3mths) (this is in Malaysia)

Both my India and Malaysia experiences are with the same company - I've been with this company for 10+ years and it's a company among the top 3 in the world in it's specific industry.

So now given the new developments, if experience is assessed only post qualifications, would it mean that they'll only consider the one since 2009, which will bring down my points (possibly) to 60 (which is still safe) or do you guys think that may further remove two years post qualifications? - in which case I drop to 55.

Do you guys recommend that to be safe I write IELTS again and score more than 8? I'd scored 9 in S/R/L but only 7.5 in Writing due to which my overall score fell and think I can pretty easily attempt again and score 8 in writing too since I'd not practiced writing even once before the exam.


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Birender said:


> Check this:
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...skilled-migration-will-likely-get-easier.html


I have had my eyes on migration news since the election results came out and the coalition government if anything might make way for more 457 VISAS . So , I am not sure how that will affect 189 and 190 visas.


----------



## abhaytomar (Aug 12, 2013)

preet_s393 said:


> Hi abhaytomar
> 
> buddy
> 
> ...


In that case, I would suggest you to contact an immigration lawyer (Not the agent). May be he will charge AUD 100 for visiting/ consultation charges but he will guide you properly that if ACS has not mentioned the date and I am not sure if DIAC has mentioned it anywhere in guidelines/ instructions that they will deduct 2 years. 

Best of Luck..


----------



## preet_s393 (Dec 2, 2012)

abhaytomar said:


> In that case, I would suggest you to contact an immigration lawyer (Not the agent). May be he will charge AUD 100 for visiting/ consultation charges but he will guide you properly that if ACS has not mentioned the date and I am not sure if DIAC has mentioned it anywhere in guidelines/ instructions that they will deduct 2 years.
> 
> Best of Luck..



abhaytomar

yes i have serached on DIAC web site not mentioned any where regarding the work experience should be post qualification, only mentioned minimum 20 hrs per week ... what do u think have you find anywhere?????????????

another thing wanted to withdrawl application may be :sad::sad:


----------



## ashish0401 (Mar 5, 2012)

Chetu said:


> I have had my eyes on migration news since the election results came out and the coalition government if anything might make way for more 457 VISAS . So , I am not sure how that will affect 189 and 190 visas.


This post is no longer alive dude.
Please have a look.

Cheers,
Ashish


----------



## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

preet_s393 said:


> abhaytomar
> 
> yes i have serached on DIAC web site not mentioned any where regarding the work experience should be post qualification, only mentioned minimum 20 hrs per week ... what do u think have you find anywhere?????????????
> 
> another thing wanted to withdrawl application may be :sad::sad:


This is what ACS says 
"If the date specified for skilled employment is earlier than the completion of the qualification; the date
will be noted as the completion date of the qualification. In this case, the date specified for skilled 
employment cannot be earlier than the completion date of the qualification."

Ref, Page 8 - http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets...ills-Assessment-Guidelines-for-Applicants.pdf


----------



## iamafreak (Aug 29, 2013)

Dud_Dodo said:


> So now given the new developments, if experience is assessed only post qualifications, would it mean that they'll only consider the one since 2009, which will bring down my points (possibly) to 60 (which is still safe) or do you guys think that may further remove two years post qualifications? - in which case I drop to 55.


I am not sure whether its still safe. You mentioned that you already have lodged your application with 70 points. Now if CO assesses your points to be any less than what you had put in your invitation he/she will reject it.


----------



## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

Thanks iamafreak, I'm considering withdrawing my application since that would at least give me an opportunity to file a fresh application after a corrected EOI. Yes, I will lose over $5k, but I think it is better to lose this money than have myself refused and banned from applying for 3 years, as well as have to mention that I was refused a visa in all further Visa applications, across the world!



iamafreak said:


> I am not sure whether its still safe. You mentioned that you already have lodged your application with 70 points. Now if CO assesses your points to be any less than what you had put in your invitation he/she will reject it.


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Dud_Dodo said:


> I'm a little confused (and a bit worried). My scenario is as follows:
> 
> I made up for a total of 70 points, out of which 15 comes from more than 8 years of work experience. I lodged the Visa under 189 on the 14th of Aug. However I had initially completed a Diploma, post which I started working and then completed my Bachelor's degree (Distance) in 2009, post which I have 3 more years of work-ex. ACS has assessed my Bachelor degree as comparable to AQF Bachelor Degree and work experience has been assessed as follows:
> 
> ...


Do you have a deeming date on your Acs letter ? These sort of letters were given post April . In any case take Ielts make up points there then tell co that you wrongly put your experience or some valid story . But I am not sure if this will work given that your Ielts score will have a date post your application lodge date . I would suggest you to consult some mara agent than withdraw your app right away .


----------



## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi Chetu,
No, unfortunately I don't have a deeming date on my ACS letter, it was issued on the 20th of March. That is what created the confusion and I ended up claiming for all my work experience. Unfortunately ACS didn't assess my Diploma, if they would have, then I'd have had a way out. 



Chetu said:


> Do you have a deeming date on your Acs letter ? These sort of letters were given post April . In any case take Ielts make up points there then tell co that you wrongly put your experience or some valid story . But I am not sure if this will work given that your Ielts score will have a date post your application lodge date . I would suggest you to consult some mara agent than withdraw your app right away .


----------



## ammu1983 (May 20, 2013)

preet_s393 said:


> Hi mandeep
> 
> i appled on 15may 2013 with 60 points and 10 point for my 5years exp + 10 point for MAsters degree.
> 
> but mandeep acs Should mention this in the letter that from this date your work should be consider skilled but they did not mentioned.


Hi, 
Why 10 points for your masters,.? You could get 15 points.


----------



## Aussidream (Sep 12, 2013)

*Is your ACS letter had "After.." for your experience. Please confirm.*

Please confirm whether you ACS result letter had any kind of wording of.... "After mm yyyy your experience is skilled..."

I am planning to submit EOI today with 60 points with old ACS format where they have not mentioned any years of deductions...
I am worried now. Please let me know about your case.



garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aussidream (Sep 12, 2013)

*Is your ACS letter had "After.." for your experience. Please confirm.*

@Qarrying,
Is your ACS letter had "After..or deemed words" for your experience. Please confirm.
I am in the same situation and submitted the EOI yesterday and waiting it to be picked.
Can I proceed further or not. Please suggest.
I have 4years and 5months of (my total experieance) accepted by ACS after my post graduation. The result letter from ACS was provided in march and have no "After or deemed words on it....". So as I had completed 5 years now. I logged the application using my partner's skills with 60 points.




garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aussidream (Sep 12, 2013)

*Is your ACS letter had "After.." for your experience. Please confirm.*

@Qarrying,
Is your ACS letter had "After..or deemed words" for your experience. Please confirm.
I am in the same situation and submitted the EOI yesterday and waiting it to be picked.
Can I proceed further or not. Please suggest.
I have 4years and 5months of (my total experieance) accepted by ACS after my post graduation. The result letter from ACS was provided in march and have no "After or deemed words on it....". So as I had completed 5 years now. I logged the application using my partner's skills with 60 points.




garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Aussidream said:


> @Qarrying,
> Is your ACS letter had "After..or deemed words" for your experience. Please confirm.
> I am in the same situation and submitted the EOI yesterday and waiting it to be picked.
> Can I proceed further or not. Please suggest.
> I have 4years and 5months of (my total experieance) accepted by ACS after my post graduation. The result letter from ACS was provided in march and have no "After or deemed words on it....". So as I had completed 5 years now. I logged the application using my partner's skills with 60 points.


he is not replying to anyone here. No one knows his status.


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Aussidream said:


> @Qarrying,
> Is your ACS letter had "After..or deemed words" for your experience. Please confirm.
> I am in the same situation and submitted the EOI yesterday and waiting it to be picked.
> Can I proceed further or not. Please suggest.
> I have 4years and 5months of (my total experieance) accepted by ACS after my post graduation. The result letter from ACS was provided in march and have no "After or deemed words on it....". So as I had completed 5 years now. I logged the application using my partner's skills with 60 points.



Please read through all posts on this thread , but I remember reading that he had that date on his letter , however , it's not conclusive if that was the reason for him to be refused . Until he clears this up himself one can only speculate.


----------



## Innovation (Oct 31, 2012)

Freind dont have words for this . I didn't went through like this but being in australia i have to return to return back is very much unexplainable . Went to immigration office asking for stay is more worst than anything . what i say just forget i know it is easy to say but you need to move on , i did move on , just stay focused , try for Canda or other places or just move to over there for studies if one door is closed there always another door open , but we need to find out where it is opened . Believe in god . 

All the best 











garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Guys i just noticed something. Please correct me if i am wrong.

All the work deductions were done for software engineers.

I guess i am right. Please correct me if i am wrong.


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Birender said:


> Guys i just noticed something. Please correct me if i am wrong.
> 
> All the work deductions were done for software engineers.
> 
> I guess i am right. Please correct me if i am wrong.


possible , coz its a golden occupation


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

sanjeewa said:


> possible , coz its a golden occupation


i checked 2 cases and both are software engineer. 

But BAs are also getting grants. And i guess it is also a golden occupation.


----------



## Innovation (Oct 31, 2012)

ru sure about that , we need to go with facts , just being software engineer points were deducted . but we always need to be on safer side in all aspects .


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

Birender said:


> i checked 2 cases and both are software engineer.
> 
> But BAs are also getting grants. And i guess it is also a golden occupation.


Yes BA is a very Golden.. in order to get EOI i think its needed 70+


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Innovation said:


> ru sure about that , we need to go with facts , just being software engineer points were deducted . but we always need to be on safer side in all aspects .


Bro this is just an observation. fact is still unknown


----------



## Allanki (Sep 12, 2013)

Birender said:


> Bro this is just an observation. fact is still unknown


I dont think only experience of software engineers are deducted. Since I was one with all my experience being considered and received grant yesterday. 

I agree that fact is still unknown


----------



## preet_s393 (Dec 2, 2012)

ammu1983 said:


> Hi,
> Why 10 points for your masters,.? You could get 15 points.


Hi ammu,


sorry, yes for master it is 15 point.

Guys have u found any where on diac, where they mentioned that work experience should be after qualification will be counted???????


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

Allanki said:


> I dont think only experience of software engineers are deducted. Since I was one with all my experience being considered and received grant yesterday.
> 
> I agree that fact is still unknown


Can you explain your case. Your a se right?when did u get acs?did you get your full years?

Thanks. Btw congrads on ur grant.


----------



## Allanki (Sep 12, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Can you explain your case. Your a se right?when did u get acs?did you get your full years?
> 
> Thanks. Btw congrads on ur grant.


My timelines in this thread

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...2549-190-visa-applicants-waiting-co-1383.html


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

Allanki said:


> My timelines in this thread
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/122549-190-visa-applicants-waiting-co-1383.html


Hmmm.then why is all this fuss where diac is reducing....crazy...hmmm...hard to predict things....thanks allanki anyways.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Hmmm.then why is all this fuss where diac is reducing....crazy...hmmm...hard to predict things....thanks allanki anyways.


Based on seeing the recent grants whether with old ACS or new ACS, all i can depict is its entirely upon CO and how satisfied he is with the docs supplied


----------



## Innovation (Oct 31, 2012)

Freinds want to tell some information that i did cross check an information straight from ACS , just no to believe in rumours and believe in real information . good luck .


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Innovation said:


> Freinds want to tell some information that i did cross check an information straight from ACS , just no to believe in rumours and believe in real information . good luck .


Are you giving some information?


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

he was saying "just no to believe in rumours and believe in real information" i guess?


----------



## Innovation (Oct 31, 2012)

i never mentioned , but i directly asked acs people because many people has said ACS has changed rules , so i just asked them have u changed any rules , they said they never changed it , the rules are still intact . what i believe is if you have proper back up there is no question of deduction of points ,


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Innovation said:


> i never mentioned , but i directly asked acs people because many people has said ACS has changed rules , so i just asked them have u changed any rules , they said they never changed it , the rules are still intact . what i believe is if you have proper back up there is no question of deduction of points ,


Please just want to clarify my doubt, so if i have my actual proof of my exp , with old acs format, i dont have to worry about deduction, right


----------



## eques (Aug 31, 2013)

Oz_dream, you mentioned recently that a MARA agent told you that there were no any reasons to worry if you hold an old version of the assessment. Why are you still so anxious?


----------



## lvonline (Jan 24, 2013)

kmann said:


> Based on seeing the recent grants whether with old ACS or new ACS, all i can depict is its entirely upon CO and how satisfied he is with the docs supplied


Hi kmann,

From your timelines, I see that you applied for SS (Victoria) in Sept and received invite as well in sept. I too have same 65 points after adding state nomination points and same code as well (261313) with IELTS 7 in each. In late august, I just filed SS for 189. As NSW is not accepting now, would Victoria work for me? Any inputs or suggestions?

Regards,
lv


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

lvonline said:


> Hi kmann,
> 
> From your timelines, I see that you applied for SS (Victoria) in Sept and received invite as well in sept. I too have same 65 points after adding state nomination points and same code as well (261313) with IELTS 7 in each. In late august, I just filed SS for 189. As NSW is not accepting now, would Victoria work for me? Any inputs or suggestions?
> 
> ...


Yeah you can go for VIC or ACT.These days they are processing applications for 6 golden occupation codes very fast. I got my approval in just 9 days. So dnt wait and file SS with Victoria or ACT :thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## ssaditya (Jul 22, 2013)

preet_s393 said:


> Hi ammu,
> 
> 
> sorry, yes for master it is 15 point.
> ...


no but they skilled experience which me u will become skilled only after ur studies...if u hav ug as the nominated occupation u can cliam points for that as ur master pg is for upgrade if u have nominated occupation that is based on ur pg u will be skilled only after pg....for example if u do ug mech and pg it u r eligible to claim points for mech experience after ur ug and if u claim points for it u can claim only after ur masters


----------



## lvonline (Jan 24, 2013)

kmann said:


> Yeah you can go for VIC or ACT.These days they are processing applications for 6 golden occupation codes very fast. I got my approval in just 9 days. So dnt wait and file SS with Victoria or ACT :thumb::thumb::thumb:


Now that's cool 
We don't need any job offer right? And what about assets?


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

lvonline said:


> Now that's cool
> We don't need any job offer right?
> *Correct*
> And what about assets?
> *You just need to declare it ,dnt need to show the proof*


Reply inline in Bold


----------



## ssaditya (Jul 22, 2013)

u have assests for act and i dont have idea abt vic


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

ssaditya said:


> u have assests for act and i dont have idea abt vic


I lpdged my visa application for subclass 189.. can i apply for SS?


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> I lpdged my visa application for subclass 189.. can i apply for SS?


You have to create new EOI for that with intended state selected in it.Why would you want to go for SS you have already lodged your VISA ??


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> You have to create new EOI for that with intended state selected in it.Why would you want to go for SS you have already lodged your VISA ??


I am scared of work ex deduction.. i got 60 points with old acs letter..


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> I am scared of work ex deduction.. i got 60 points with old acs letter..


I assume you have submitted all work related docs.And also so far we have seen only 3-4 cases of work ex deduction whereas lots of approval cases as well. Its entirely upto CO as per my observation and how satisfied he is with all the docs you provided.

Even if you are going for SS,would ask you to do it fast as there are limited number of seats for SS as well if you belong to 6 golden occupation code


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> I assume you have submitted all work related docs.And also so far we have seen only 3-4 cases of work ex deduction whereas lots of approval cases as well. Its entirely upto CO as per my observation and how satisfied he is with all the docs you provided.
> 
> Even if you are going for SS,would ask you to do it fast as there are limited number of seats for SS as well if you belong to 6 golden occupation code


I agree.. thats why i asked.. 

Can someone please investigate that.. can i apply for SS side by side?

Please help


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

Birender said:


> I am scared of work ex deduction.. i got 60 points with old acs letter..


i found today that one guy received his acs without any deduction today
check this link below

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...cs-skills-assessment-processing-time-917.html


----------



## hiya_hanan (Sep 11, 2013)

garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


I am sorry dear, I am sure, something alternative will be worked out for you. But, how abt the fees, is it refundable or just gone to vein ?


----------



## hiya_hanan (Sep 11, 2013)

kmann said:


> I assume you have submitted all work related docs.And also so far we have seen only 3-4 cases of work ex deduction whereas lots of approval cases as well. Its entirely upto CO as per my observation and how satisfied he is with all the docs you provided.
> 
> Even if you are going for SS,would ask you to do it fast as there are limited number of seats for SS as well if you belong to 6 golden occupation code


Hello Kamn,

1. I have applied for ACS on May 16 & received on Aug 7 in a PDF format. Can someone enlighten me if mine is categorized as new or old ACS ? 

2. I see in couple of forums, that, people who have old ACS & done their engineering turned IT professionals, only their experience has been deducted.

3.But I fall under 263111 under ( Software Engineer & Network Professional ) all through my graduation, I have completed a dedicated course of computers which is bachelor's of computer Applications which is 100% related to the field I am currently engaged or settled in ?

4. What are my chances or factors affecting my experience ? I am claiming complete 60 points & see almost 9 years of experience in IT.

Please help me with this, I am also posing these set of questions in other links to get maximum thoughts on this, after hearing various dimensions of deducting experience, it is atrocious to think ahead to fulfill the dream of immigration.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> i found today that one guy received his acs without any deduction today
> check this link below
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...cs-skills-assessment-processing-time-917.html


really nice. 

I hope DIAC also considers all the experience.


----------



## Ozbabe (Sep 20, 2013)

findraj said:


> ok, guys firstly stop spreading negativity around the thread..Yes, one has to hold their nerves..Atleast you are aware of the process, last year when we were applying we thought no 60 pointers would ever be invited but that wasnt true...The entire EOI and Invites were a new thing..No one knew how it worked at all
> 
> In 2012, Oct 15 round there were technical glitches and not a single invite was given to anyone and people lost faith on SkillSelect.
> 
> ...



Hi All,

I am new to this forum and just registered. I have seen some mention about 'New rule' and 'deduction of two years' after applying. Sorry to drag you back but can someone please explain what these are all about, and/ or provide links where I can read up as I just applied for the ACS assessment two days ago and need to know i am on the right path.

Occupation code is 261111.

Thanks and regards


----------



## ssaditya (Jul 22, 2013)

Birender said:


> I lpdged my visa application for subclass 189.. can i apply for SS?


yes u can just edit ur eoi and mark for 190 with 189 u will automated with five points extra in 190 as u will get state sponsorship and invitation u can go on with 190 process or if u get invitation with 189 u can go on with 189 process

all the best


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Ozbabe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new to this forum and just registered. I have seen some mention about 'New rule' and 'deduction of two years' after applying. Sorry to drag you back but can someone please explain what these are all about, and/ or provide links where I can read up as I just applied for the ACS assessment two days ago and need to know i am on the right path.
> 
> ...


If your degree is major in computing ACS will deduct 2 years out of your total experience and if minor in computing they will dedut 4 years out of total. Means you can claim points only for the experience after deduction.
Link: http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/7324/Summary-of-Criteria.pdf

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Karan


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

ssaditya said:


> yes u can just edit ur eoi and mark for 190 with 189 u will automated with five points extra in 190 as u will get state sponsorship and invitation u can go on with 190 process or if u get invitation with 189 u can go on with 189 process
> 
> all the best


Bro, He has already lodged 189 VISA application.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

hiya_hanan said:


> Hello Kamn,
> 
> 1. I have applied for ACS on May 16 & received on Aug 7 in a PDF format. Can someone enlighten me if mine is categorized as new or old ACS ?
> *It should be NEW. Can you see any clause such as "After this date" or "deemed skill date" in your result.*
> ...


Pls see answers in bold.


----------



## Ozbabe (Sep 20, 2013)

kmann said:


> If your degree is major in computing ACS will deduct 2 years out of your total experience and if minor in computing they will dedut 4 years out of total. Means you can claim points only for the experience after deduction.
> Link:
> 
> Hope this helps.
> ...


Hi Karan,

Thanks for this. It really helps. 

In my case I have BSc in Micro Biology but never worked with that degree. I have been in IT after first degree and got a Masters in Information Technology Management and Organisational Change ( has a mix of IT and Management). All together I have about 12 years working experience. In between I have done numerous Microsoft certifications. So would they take off 2 years, or four years since my first degree is not in IT, or would they consider all the certifications I have as equivalent to the first degree.

It is giving me some concern...

Kindly advise


----------



## ssaditya (Jul 22, 2013)

kmann said:


> Bro, He has already lodged 189 VISA application.


yes he can do that as he didnt get invitation for 189 even i applied for both 189 and 190 in the single eoi and has got invitation for 190 so v can do it


----------



## hiya_hanan (Sep 11, 2013)

kmann said:


> Pls see answers in bold.


Thanks Kmann for your response -


----------



## nicromonicon (Nov 16, 2012)

Guys I have a new ACS with 2 years deducted, I didn't notice and applied with full 3 years experience for a 189, and uploaded my ACS and work references letters upfront.

Yesterday I was contacted by CO asking for more documents:

_Please provide further evidence of employment in a skilled profession for a total of at least 3
years in the last 10 years (prior to your lodgement date of 01 August 2013)._

Now I am thinking, had the CO considered ACS result, they wouldn't have bothered with asking for more docs, they would have simply refused the application.

what do you guys think ?


----------



## srikar (Mar 26, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys I have a new ACS with 2 years deducted, I didn't notice and applied with full 3 years experience for a 189, and uploaded my ACS and work references letters upfront.
> 
> Yesterday I was contacted by CO asking for more documents:
> 
> ...


Mate,Just upload what ever you have for those 3 years,Tax docs,Payslips,or Bank statement.
Looks like CO will consider your 3 Years if you prove it.
Good luck.


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

srikar said:


> Mate,Just upload what ever you have for those 3 years,Tax docs,Payslips,or Bank statement.
> Looks like CO will consider your 3 Years if you prove it.
> Good luck.


Yes co might consider those since there were intances where diac has overridden acs in a positive way.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys I have a new ACS with 2 years deducted, I didn't notice and applied with full 3 years experience for a 189, and uploaded my ACS and work references letters upfront.
> 
> Yesterday I was contacted by CO asking for more documents:
> 
> ...


Upload all the documents you have for those 3 years payslips, bank statements, IT Returns , appraisal, promotion letters.

Wish u get ur grant soon.

Regards,
Karan


----------



## nicromonicon (Nov 16, 2012)

Guys the CO asked me for these:
_● Contract
● Pay slips covering the period of claimed work experience;
● Bank statements showing payment of salaries into personal bank accounts;
● Taxation Documents._

problem is, for one of the companies I worked at, I cant provide _any _of those, as I was receiving my salary in cash (tax free) and the only paper work was me signing a paper saying that I received my salary for that given month, AND I lost the contract!

Now what? I have already submitted the reference letter for that company ?

I am really depressed and anxious....


----------



## srikar (Mar 26, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys the CO asked me for these:
> _● Contract
> ● Pay slips covering the period of claimed work experience;
> ● Bank statements showing payment of salaries into personal bank accounts;
> ...


Nothing much you can do If you do not have the above said docs.
CO will consider your experience valid only if you provide any of the requested docs.
Try to contact your company and ask for duplicate payslips if possible.

Good luck!


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys the CO asked me for these:
> _● Contract
> ● Pay slips covering the period of claimed work experience;
> ● Bank statements showing payment of salaries into personal bank accounts;
> ...


Does your CO want all of the above or any of the above?


----------



## nicromonicon (Nov 16, 2012)

Chetu said:


> Does your CO want all of the above or any of the above?


any


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

nicromonicon said:


> any


you can ask for a copy of contract from your employer.
Or ask them to give your salary proof in some official document.


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> any


If you still can't get any of those could you try to get some sort documentation from the Income Tax dept. for all the debits credits against your PAN ? I think they should have such records for all PAN nos. 


A general question to all , if one has to provide CO bank statements should they also give the CO the passwords that open pdf statements ? Because almost all bank statements are password protected.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Chetu said:


> If you still can't get any of those could you try to get some sort documentation from the Income Tax dept. for all the debits credits against your PAN ? I think they should have such records for all PAN nos.
> 
> 
> A general question to all , if one has to provide CO bank statements should they also give the CO the passwords that open pdf statements ? Because almost all bank statements are password protected.


Remove the password from your statements and then share them. You can do it easily online for free.Just google.
Also, highlight the salary entry for each month in your Bank statement.It will help your CO to easily locate salary information.Less work for him, sooner the grant.


----------



## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

kmann said:


> Remove the password from your statements and then share them. You can do it easily online for free.Just google.
> Also, highlight the salary entry for each month in your Bank statement.It will help your CO to easily locate salary information.Less work for him, sooner the grant.


Thanks kmann , it would be great help if you could post any links on how to strip off the password on the pdfs .Googled for it but ended up downloading useless softwares that only do a small file for free .


----------



## srikar (Mar 26, 2013)

Chetu said:


> Thanks kmann , it would be great help if you could post any links on how to strip off the password on the pdfs .Googled for it but ended up downloading useless softwares that only do a small file for free .


Chetu,

You can use doPDF or nitroPDF for windows.

Open the pdf file with passowrd and click on print,If you install any of the above you can see them in the printing device list.

select one of them and give the file name.

Your doc is ready with out a password.

Hope this helps.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Chetu said:


> Thanks kmann , it would be great help if you could post any links on how to strip off the password on the pdfs .Googled for it but ended up downloading useless softwares that only do a small file for free .


Try dis bro : PDFCrack! - Crack secured PDF files online for free. I used the same for removing passwords.

Cheers,
Karan


----------



## mandeeps (Apr 5, 2013)

Shared post from 'ExpatForum' by akiimanu from thread 'Subclass 189 invites (awaiting CO)':

VISA Refusal for me
==============

Hi Mates,

Today I was bombarded by CO's decision of refusal for 189 SC Software Engineer category.

Let me explain it here :

I have non ICT degree in "Bio-technology Engineering" with 7 years of experience.
I have relevant work experience of 7 years as a software engineer so I applied for
ACS- RPL ( Recognition of Prior Learning) on 24th March,2012 we got the positive outcome from ACS on 19th June. I am pasting a snippet from same here :

"Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.
The following employment after December 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code."

On the basis of this, I went ahead and claimed 10 points for work experience in our EOI.

Refusal:
======
Today I got an email from my CO, letting me know that VISA has been refused and all claimed 10 points have been deducted and our EOI left with 55 points only, hence the refusal.

Reason by CO:
===========
On the 20 July 2013 you provided in conjunction with your application a skills assessment from the Australian Computer Society (ACS) dated 19 June 2013 reference: XXXX. ACS provided an assessment of your work experience: Senior Software Engineer at XXXX (India) November 2006 – December 2009; Associate - Projects at XXXX(India) January 2010 – March 2011; Senior System Engineer at XXX (India) March 2011 – March 2013.

ACS made the following statement regarding your work experience:
The following employment after December 2012 is considered to equate to work at anappropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO code.

Following an assessment of your work experience I am not satisfied that you were employed in your nominated skilled occupation or a closely related skilled occupation, for at least 60 months in the months in the 10 years immediately before the time of invitation to apply for the visa and no points are awarded.

My Question to Forum:
================
According to ACS (old) if I have 6 years of experience I am eligible for 10 points in case of RPL too. People with RPl exp. please reply and help.

I have written to my assessor and his reply is as follows :

"The date provided in your skill assessment result letter is the date you have met the ACS requirements.

Your experience 11/06 to 12/12 has been considered in your skill assessment application in determining the outcome of your application.

You were required to demonstrate 6 years’ experience which was completed in 12/12

12/12 is the date you met the ACS requirements and is the date in which you have been deemed to reach the appropriate skilled level for your nominated occupation."

Please help in understanding the situation, what we should do next, is it a mistake from ACS in mentioning the reference letter or our CO has mistaken it.

Please reply we have very less time to revert to our CO.

Thanks in advance!!!

Shared via ExpatForum.


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

mandeeps said:


> Shared post from 'ExpatForum' by akiimanu from thread 'Subclass 189 invites (awaiting CO)':
> 
> VISA Refusal for me
> ==============
> ...


my opinion is find a good MARA agent ASAP .. gud luck for you


----------



## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

mandeeps said:


> Shared post from 'ExpatForum' by akiimanu from thread 'Subclass 189 invites (awaiting CO)':
> 
> VISA Refusal for me
> ==============
> ...



In your ACS letter there are saying this "after December 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code". As i think, according to this you can claim points for post experience from December 2012.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

mandeeps said:


> Shared post from 'ExpatForum' by akiimanu from thread 'Subclass 189 invites (awaiting CO)':
> 
> VISA Refusal for me
> ==============
> ...


You can talk to CO and ask if you can provide some documents to claim the left behind work ex. There were 1 or 2 cases where guys claimed all the work ex and got the grant with new ACS letter.


----------



## mandeeps (Apr 5, 2013)

Friends it is not me, i have shared it from other thread... I have not applied yet and waiting for invitation. Just look into the header of the post.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

mandeeps said:


> Friends it is not me, i have shared it from other thread... I have not applied yet and waiting for invitation. Just look into the header of the post.


Can you please post the answers there as well. May be anything can help him.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> Can you please post the answers there as well. May be anything can help him.


Birender, have u uploaded all the documents for all of your experience claimed such as payslips, bank statememnts and taxation documents ?? If not upload them as well.......try to provide as much evidence you can provide to make ur case strong.......


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Birender, have u uploaded all the documents for all of your experience claimed such as payslips, bank statememnts and taxation documents ?? If not upload them as well.......try to provide as much evidence you can provide to make ur case strong.......


Thanks man..

I have uploaded, resume, experience letter, payslips (2 per year), ITR acknowledgement for all 3 years..

Anything else i should go for?? 

Please share everything i can submit. I am ready to provide them all.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> Thanks man..
> 
> I have uploaded, resume, experience letter, payslips (2 per year), ITR acknowledgement for all 3 years..
> 
> ...


Offer letters/Appointment Letters, Relieving letters , Appraisal/Hike Letters ???


----------



## manubadboy (Sep 20, 2013)

mandeeps said:


> Shared post from 'ExpatForum' by akiimanu from thread 'Subclass 189 invites (awaiting CO)':
> 
> VISA Refusal for me
> ==============
> ...


The Major point that you missed out my friend is this:-

"The following employment *after December 2012* is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code."

ACS gave you the +ve outcome but your experience was valid according to them from December 2012 and not from the time you started working hence you were actually not eligible for 10 points.. You should not have claimed any point of experience.:brick:


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Offer letters/Appointment Letters, Relieving letters , Appraisal/Hike Letters ???


Oh.. ok.. i will upload them as well. Thanks a lot


----------



## manubadboy (Sep 20, 2013)

Birender said:


> Oh.. ok.. i will upload them as well. Thanks a lot


I would say upload anything and everything that you find is relevant to substantiate the fact about your job. Annual PF receipt, Bank statement where salary is credited.:cool2:


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

manubadboy said:


> I would say upload anything and everything that you find is relevant to substantiate the fact about your job. Annual PF receipt, Bank statement where salary is credited.:cool2:


yeah. Can anyone give me the list of everything that should be uploaded. That will be awesome.


----------



## lvonline (Jan 24, 2013)

kmann said:


> Reply inline in Bold


Hey Karan,

Don't know where to post this and hence putting you a query. I thought once we attain the min eligibility criteria for VIC SS we are sure shot to get an invite. However, from the forum it doesn't seem to be. Do you have any idea what it takes to get an invite apart from ACS/IELTS/Resume ? 
Does the number of dependents and the assets we put up make a difference ? Just curious if you have put any dependents?

I have applied last week and belong to the same code 261313, IELTS 7 in all.

Regards,
LV


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

lvonline said:


> Hey Karan,
> 
> Don't know where to post this and hence putting you a query.  I thought once we attain the min eligibility criteria for VIC SS we are sure shot to get an invite. However, from the forum it doesn't seem to be. Do you have any idea what it takes to get an invite apart from ACS/IELTS/Resume ?
> Does the number of dependents and the assets we put up make a difference ? Just curious if you have put any dependents?
> ...


No Its not exactly like this. Passing minimum elig criteria is not the only factor they use to assess your application. There are other factors also such as how well prepared your Resume/CV is and at the time of application there is a demand for the skills in Victoria for all the skills that you possesses and are there in your CV. I have seen many cases where guys having even 7-8 years of exp getting rejection from Victoria. Dependents and assets doesnot make any difference acc to me. Its just how suitable and qualified your CO founds you while assessing your application. 

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Karan


----------



## ismathhassan (Oct 1, 2013)

How do i start a new threaf


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

ismathhassan said:


> How do i start a new threaf


there is "Post a new thread button" on top of threads panel on the left hand side :roll:


----------



## sweettruegod (Aug 7, 2013)

Birender said:


> There were 1 or 2 cases where guys claimed all the work ex and got the grant with new ACS letter.


Hi,

Can somebody refer those cases, mine case is also very much similar, my agent has applied SS with new ACS claiming all work ex. Still confused what should I do next. Referring to those case might help.

Thanks


----------



## ismathhassan (Oct 1, 2013)

kmann said:


> there is "Post a new thread button" on top of threads panel on the left hand side :roll:


Thanxs


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

sweettruegod said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can somebody refer those cases, mine case is also very much similar, my agent has applied SS with new ACS claiming all work ex. Still confused what should I do next. Referring to those case might help.
> 
> Thanks


one was joejohn other I am not aware.


----------



## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Birender, 

any update on your case? I think the main problem is that since you went through *RPL* six years of work experience _substitute_ for a formal degree. Other people spent at least 4 years in university to get a bachelor degree and work experience prior or parallel to that is generally NOT considered as "skilled" by DIAC either. Some applicants who went through RPL got their application refused by DIAC if they claimed work experience points for their entire work history even _before_ the new letter format. The COs were not always consistent about it, which increased the general confusion . 

I wish you the best of luck. You could refer to some cases that got the grant with RPL and full work experience claim, but I'm not sure if it will help much. 

All the best, 
Monika


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

espresso said:


> Hi Birender,
> 
> any update on your case? I think the main problem is that since you went through RPL six years of work experience substitute for a formal degree. Other people spent at least 4 years in university to get a bachelor degree and work experience prior or parallel to that is generally NOT considered as "skilled" by DIAC either. Some applicants who went through RPL got their application refused by DIAC if they claimed work experience points for their entire work history even before the new letter format. The COs were not always consistent about it, which increased the general confusion .
> 
> ...


Hi monika, 

Thank u so much. But i guess there is a confusion on my case.
I have also spent 4 yrs for degree. I went thru engineering in computers and hence i didnt go thru RPL. 

My qualification is closely related to my occupation. I got my ACS in old format where 2 yrs and 11 months (full work ex) was considered. I sumited extra documents for missing month to make it 3 years and claimed 5 points for the same. And i am an offshore applicant.

Now the issue is, as in new acs letters work ex is reduced by 2 yrs and in case DIAC do the same for me, i.e. reducing the work ex even if i have old ACS letter then it will be a problem for me. I am a 60 pointer and reduction of 5 points would lead to rejection.


----------



## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Birender, 

uh yeah, sorry - I confused your case with _mandeeps_' . 

Yeah, you should have a much better chance to get the full work experience counted. _joejohn_ got everything counted, even with the new letter format. Future applicants would do well to avoid this issue by only claiming after the ACS "skilled" date or taking a chance deliberately. 

Let's hope that everything goes well for you. 

Monika


----------



## kashifbari (Apr 22, 2010)

Friends i got to the grant 1 hour ago yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

VISA has been granted i have had SA sponsored


----------



## 0z_dream (Apr 7, 2013)

kashifbari said:


> Friends i got to the grant 1 hour ago yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 
> VISA has been granted i have had SA sponsored


congrats


----------



## gsuresh84 (Sep 12, 2013)

Is it possible to just take the IELTS again and recover the loss points? That's what I would personally do.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

espresso said:


> Hi Birender,
> 
> uh yeah, sorry - I confused your case with mandeeps' .
> 
> ...


I agree.. thanks for the wishes..i need a lot of them. 

I dont have a skilled daten on my letter , still in some cases they do it.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kashifbari said:


> Friends i got to the grant 1 hour ago yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 
> VISA has been granted i have had SA sponsored


Congrts


----------



## nilsxinli (Jul 17, 2013)

i got my golden grant letter yesterday and my condition is as below
age point 30
acs 263111 old version 8.5year,point 15
bachelor degree point 15
total point 60
elodged at 8.6, granted at 10.2
for your reference


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

nilsxinli said:


> i got my golden grant letter yesterday and my condition is as below
> age point 30
> acs 263111 old version 8.5year,point 15
> bachelor degree point 15
> ...


congratulations. Hoping grants for everyone.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

0z_dream said:


> congrats, may i knw whether u got for 189 or 190


Must be 189. Other wise there would have been 5 points for SS.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

nicromonicon said:


> any


Any update?


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

Birender said:


> congratulations. Hoping grants for everyone.


Dnt worry Bro.....You will get ur grant as well..... Have faith in GOD 
My best wishes are with you......I can understand how u must be feeling right now....
Good luck once again


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

kmann said:


> Dnt worry Bro.....You will get ur grant as well..... Have faith in GOD
> My best wishes are with you......I can understand how u must be feeling right now....
> Good luck once again


thanks man for all the wishes. I need them


----------



## nicromonicon (Nov 16, 2012)

*Grant!*

Guys I received my grant today  Thank ALLAH!

I had a new ACS assessment, the CO asked for further evidence of employment....contracts,pay slips,bank statements of which I had NONE.

I explained the situation to the CO and attached only reference letters.
I was almost sure I wasn't gonna get the grant, and made my peace with it..

got grant 5 days later  

There IS hope you guys.

one question, where do i go from here? I'm a SW developer, do i start securing a job before I leave? or do I stand a better chance on land?

where do i stay? I need some place that's not expensive?

Thank you all and good luck with your applications


----------



## srikar (Mar 26, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys I received my grant today  Thank ALLAH!
> 
> I had a new ACS assessment, the CO asked for further evidence of employment....contracts,pay slips,bank statements of which I had NONE.
> 
> ...


Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!Congrats mate,All the best for the New Life in Oz!!!!!!!!


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys I received my grant today  Thank ALLAH!
> 
> I had a new ACS assessment, the CO asked for further evidence of employment....contracts,pay slips,bank statements of which I had NONE.
> 
> ...


You claimed your work ex before the deemed date as well?

Its hard to secure a job from here. You can take some interview calls and then go there.

Sydney, Melboure, brisbane and perth are good options. As faqr as the expenses are concerned, sydney is most expensive and rest all are same  BEst of luck


----------



## nicromonicon (Nov 16, 2012)

Birender said:


> You claimed your work ex before the deemed date as well?


Yes I did


----------



## Mack1982 (Jul 27, 2013)

nicromonicon said:


> Guys I received my grant today  Thank ALLAH!
> 
> I had a new ACS assessment, the CO asked for further evidence of employment....contracts,pay slips,bank statements of which I had NONE.
> 
> ...


Congrats...


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

nicromonicon said:


> Yes I did


thanks for the news friend. 

best of luck for your future. Wishing you an amazing job there.


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

Birender said:


> Hi monika,
> 
> Thank u so much. But i guess there is a confusion on my case.
> I have also spent 4 yrs for degree. I went thru engineering in computers and hence i didnt go thru RPL.
> ...


 
Birender,
I also have old ACS letter and received invitation today with 60 points. 

Now I'm confused whether to lodge VISA application or not since If they deduct 2 years from my experience I'll loose 5 points which will eventually lead to rejection.


What do you suggest based on your observation/discussions around forums?

Thank you, Prattech.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

prattech said:


> Birender,
> I also have old ACS letter and received invitation today with 60 points.
> 
> Now I'm confused whether to lodge VISA application or not since If they deduct 2 years from my experience I'll loose 5 points which will eventually lead to rejection.
> ...


there are people who are getting grants, and garrying was the only one who got rejection. There is a big ratio difference. But is guess these is no alternate. All states suspended this occupation and hence you cannot go for SS. you cannot reduce your work ex and lodge application as you will end up with 55. IELTS you can give and can score more. that is the only option left, but that will also if you get the ielts results before invitation is expired.

I would request you to check with your nearest MARA agent. I am not an expert, i can only provide you my views.

And at last decision will be yours. Best of luck.


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

Birender said:


> there are people who are getting grants, and garrying was the only one who got rejection. There is a big ratio difference. But is guess these is no alternate. All states suspended this occupation and hence you cannot go for SS. you cannot reduce your work ex and lodge application as you will end up with 55. IELTS you can give and can score more. that is the only option left, but that will also if you get the ielts results before invitation is expired.
> 
> I would request you to check with your nearest MARA agent. I am not an expert, i can only provide you my views.
> 
> And at last decision will be yours. Best of luck.


True, where many are getting aprovals , there are still some rejections. One of my australian friend's friend received rejection due to experience deduction few days back.

Applying would mean to accept risk of rejection and go ahead. Anyways, i'll give a thought since I have 60 days and try to find official answers if there are any.

Thank you for your comments.


----------



## viralsagar20 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hello Folks,

Reading through all the posts.. I am really in a confused state of mind. When I received my ACS skill assessment, it states as below 

Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261314 (Software Tester) of the ANZSCO Code.

The following employment after July 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261314 (Software Tester) of the ANZSCO Code.

So I mailed ACS back, ask them why is *after July 2012* is considered to Equate an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261314 (Software Tester) of the ANZSCO Code

They repied stating, Since I have Bachelor in Non ICT degree with no Major/Minor ICT subjects, Then ACS creteria is 6+ years work exp as Software Tester to assess as suiatable

Please advise.


----------



## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

Hello All,
Just wanted to let you all know that I got my Grant a couple of hours back. Reason I'm posting the news here is because of my earlier post here which is quoted below.



Dud_Dodo said:


> I'm a little confused (and a bit worried). My scenario is as follows:
> 
> I made up for a total of 70 points, out of which 15 comes from more than 8 years of work experience. I lodged the Visa under 189 on the 14th of Aug. However I had initially completed a Diploma, post which I started working and then completed my Bachelor's degree (Distance) in 2009, post which I have 3 more years of work-ex. ACS has assessed my Bachelor degree as comparable to AQF Bachelor Degree and work experience has been assessed as follows:
> 
> ...


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Dud_Dodo said:


> Hello All,
> Just wanted to let you all know that I got my Grant a couple of hours back. Reason I'm posting the news here is because of my earlier post here which is quoted below.


Congratulations 

And best of luck for your future. Where are you in australia?


----------



## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

Birender said:


> Congratulations
> 
> And best of luck for your future. Where are you in australia?


Thanks Birender.
I'm not in Australia, I'm in Penang, Malaysia.


----------



## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

Dud_Dodo said:


> Thanks Birender.
> I'm not in Australia, I'm in Penang, Malaysia.


oh.. when are you planning to fly then?


----------



## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

Not so soon, maybe between Apr-June 2014.


Birender said:


> oh.. when are you planning to fly then?


----------



## prattech (Aug 5, 2013)

Hello all,

I was hell lot confused about experience deduction and chances of VISA rejection and huge loss of money so decided to stay away little from all this.

However, yesterday JR sent me a message and asked about my staus of VISA application and heard good news that shinde received grant.

How is it going for all of you?

Sorry for dumping so many words but below is my status.

received invite on 13th Oct with 60 points for 2613 - Analyst programmer

1. Have 4 years of experience in Analyst Programmer and closely related occupation 
2. Have Old ACS letter which shows all 4 years experience and I claimed 5 points for 3 years experience
3. I have post-graduate degree in computer science
4. My points calculation when I entered data in EOI

Age - 30
Education - 15
IELTS(7) - 10
Work exp. - 5

I really don't want to take risk of lodging application since 2 years deduction in experience will end up loosing 5 points for exp and my application may be rejected which will be a huge loss of money.

Since I only have around 15 days to decide on whether to apply or not, I would greatly appreciate all your comments.

Please note that I'm not going to blame anyone if it gets rejected and please feel free to provide opinions.

Thank you all - Prat


----------



## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

prattech said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I was hell lot confused about experience deduction and chances of VISA rejection and huge loss of money so decided to stay away little from all this.
> 
> ...


In fact, Birender also received grant if you don't know. Old ACS, 3 years experience and 60 points.


----------



## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

prattech said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I was hell lot confused about experience deduction and chances of VISA rejection and huge loss of money so decided to stay away little from all this.
> 
> ...


I am with old ACS (8 yrs 9 months experience) with 60 points including 5 points from ACT SS. Waiting for the grant. There are many like us in the forum.
Go ahead and file for visa.


----------



## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

Mroks said:


> I am with old ACS (8 yrs 9 months experience) with 60 points including 5 points from ACT SS. Waiting for the grant. There are many like us in the forum.
> Go ahead and file for visa.


Very soothing  Brings smile on face too. 

Thanks for motivation.


----------



## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

see this,

Change To Invitation Rounds from 16 December 2013 » SkillSelect Support


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

ccham said:


> see this,
> 
> Change To Invitation Rounds from 16 December 2013 » SkillSelect Support


Thats not good news


----------



## meetusingh1308 (Nov 13, 2012)

prattech said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I was hell lot confused about experience deduction and chances of VISA rejection and huge loss of money so decided to stay away little from all this.
> 
> ...


I got mine with old ACS and 60 points.. Go ahead with your application


----------



## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

meetusingh1308 said:


> I got mine with old ACS and 60 points.. Go ahead with your application


That's more and more positive news, thank you for sharing it  

Many ongratulations to you and have a GREAT life in Australia 

Please share your timelines, point breakups, Employment points you considered and your qualification in this thread below where we are capturing all successful grants with 60 points and old ACS  

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...-60-points-2613-189-visa-november-2013-a.html

Once agian my wishes 

Best regards,
JR


----------



## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

jre05 said:


> That's more and more positive news, thank you for sharing it
> 
> Many ongratulations to you and have a GREAT life in Australia
> 
> ...


Yes indeed


----------



## jre05 (Feb 16, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Yes indeed


Yo yo :yo: There are no rejections so far as some of my friends also received grants with same background till this week   

:wave:


----------



## nirman91 (Nov 30, 2013)

*EOI Submitted ICT BA*

OK i am new to this group . I submiited MY EOI on 22/11/2013 . i Have 60 points for visa 189 and 65 for 190 . I clicked on any state for for visa 190 .
Since the cut off for ICT BA is 65 ..is there any chance for me ? since the seats are limited . DO you think there would be a new SOL in 2014 -2015 for ICT BA ? 

Also, Since i have done my masters in business - Enterprise resource planning . can i get assessed for Database administrater or for software and aplications programmer.

I am very confused and lost . please guide me


----------



## srmumtaz (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi Guys,

I need some advise

I have a new ACS letter which is deducting 2 yrs from my 8+ years of experience. I did not realise that at the time i got the assessment result and i applied for the EOI and also the Visa. So after deduction my point will fall from 60 to 55.

Now the question is, can i now claim 5 points for my spouse' experience & qualification at this stage where my visa application is under process?

Will CO allow this?

Appreciate any help here.

Regards,
srmumtaz


----------



## srikar (Mar 26, 2013)

srmumtaz said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I need some advise
> 
> ...


Hi Mumtaz,

Sad to know that your points were decreased.
In order to claim spouse points,Spouse ACS/Skill assessment needs to be +ve and spouse occupation should be in same SOL as yours.
Now the catch is Skill assessment takes around 3 months may be 2 months if you are lucky,but your visa will be processed with in 2 months.
So I would suggest you to withdraw your application and may be you will get a refund.
Once you are done with Spouse asessment you can launch a fresh application with 60 points.

All the best!!!! and Good Luck!

Please like and click on Thanks button If you find my post helpful.


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## srangara (Dec 9, 2013)

Hi Guys,
I just chanced upon to see this thread and got confused.

I have basically applied for over 8 yrs of experience(Claiming 15 points for experinece). I have been working from Jun 1999 until date with a 1 yr 2 months gap in between. Therefore I have claimed over 8 yrs of experience in the last 10 yrs.


My question is what does this mean 
"The following employment after December 2005 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code."

Does it mean i can only claim experience after Dec 2005.

Does it mean i cant claim my total work experience in the last 10 years.

Experts can you please shed some light on this?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Skills assesment details are as under (BY ACS)

Dear XXX,
Thank you for your ICT skills assessment which was received by the Australian Computer Society on 12
August 2013.
Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261313 (Software Engineer) of the
ANZSCO Code.
Your qualification has been assessed as follows:
Your Master of Computer Applications from YYYY completed May 1999 has been assessed as comparable to an AQF Master Degree with
a major in computing

The following employment after December 2005 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately
skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.

Dates: 12/01 - 10/06 (4yrs 10mths)
Position: PROJECT MANAGER/SOFTWARE ENGINEER
Employer: XXX
Country: INDIA

Dates: 10/06 - 08/07 (0yrs 10mths)
Position: SENIOR JAVA CONSULTANT/SOFTWARE ENGINEER
Employer: YYY
Country: USA

Dates: 01/08 - 03/09 (1yrs 2mths)
Position: DEVELOPER/SOFTWARE ENGINEER
Employer: ZZZ
Country: USA

Dates: 08/10 - 08/13 (3yrs 0mths)
Position: CONTRACTOR/SOFTWARE ENGINEER
Employer: XYZ
Country: SINGAPORE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## misguided (Sep 11, 2012)

srangara said:


> The following employment after December 2005 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately
> skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.


The above lines mean you can apply stating experience after Dec 2005 as relevant experience.


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## srangara (Dec 9, 2013)

So it means i have only 5 yrs 10 months starting from Dec 2005. So i dont qualify for 15 points. Instead i have only 10 points for work experience. That gets me down to 60 points rather than 65 as claimed in the EOI. Is this correct. Please advice. So should i cancel my EOI?



misguided said:


> The above lines mean you can apply stating experience after Dec 2005 as relevant experience.


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## srangara (Dec 9, 2013)

Another question with the ACS skills assesment outcomes posted above in thread 455.

I have submitted employment docs right from Dec 2001 till Aug 2013.
Why have the ACS give me credit only from Dec 2005. The last 10 years should mean from Aug 2003 right.


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

srangara said:


> So it means i have only 5 yrs 10 months starting from Dec 2005. So i dont qualify for 15 points. Instead i have only 10 points for work experience. That gets me down to 60 points rather than 65 as claimed in the EOI. Is this correct. Please advice. So should i cancel my EOI?



Modify your experience in EOI as per ACS stated.


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## srangara (Dec 9, 2013)

Yes Mroks. Did it. now the wait time for the invite increases....


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## ann.ria.jacob (May 25, 2011)

Cool congrats


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi guys,

It's me OP here. Anyone with old letter claiming 60 points under 189 got any refusal or grants?

Basically immigration deducted 2 years from my experience and reduced my points.
This is even when application was lodged in June 2013 even after I have old ACS letter where no experience was deducted.

Nothing positive has come out yet after speaking with many different people including Migration Agent who is MARN.

Arrived at 60 points as below:


30 age
10 employment
15 education
5 partner skills
0 IELTS (as in one of the module score was below 7)
---
60 points total.

ANYONE HAS GOT REFUSAL OR GRANT for old letter, claiming 60 points under 189??

What do to further?


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

after reduction your points are 60??


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

No not after reduction. Before reduction.


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

garrying said:


> No not after reduction. Before reduction.


As per my agent.. your acs would have reconsidered again.. and they must have found some irrelevent work ex.. that can be a reason for reduction


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## mcgyver (Oct 29, 2013)

Hi garrying,

I suggest you take the IELTS again and get 10 solid marks by scoring 7 on each module.


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> Hi garrying,
> 
> I suggest you take the IELTS again and get 10 solid marks by scoring 7 on each module.


Thanks for suggestion mcgyver. Don't know if I will be still eligible as ACS has started deducting 2 years of experience.

My last skills assessment with ACS had below experience. Total of this experience is 5 years and 4months. See below.

Dates: 08/07 - 08/09 (2yrs 0mths)

Dates: 08/09 - 05/10 (0yrs 9mths)

Dates: 05/10 - 05/11 (1yrs 0mths)

Dates: 05/11 - 12/12 (1yrs 7mths)

Now my current experience has increased by 1 year and 1 month up to 01/14 (current month and year) from 12/12 with my employer.

So my total experience is now 6 years and 5 months. Now if ACS deducts 2 years from my total experience then I will have 4 years and 5 months experience and won't reach 5 years of experience.

So is it still worth taking IELTS again??

I am lost as all plans are in tatters and also lost so much time and money for no fault on my side.  We have lost faith in this migration system due to this as no one is willing to help us as decision has been made.


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## misguided (Sep 11, 2012)

srangara said:


> So it means i have only 5 yrs 10 months starting from Dec 2005. So i dont qualify for 15 points. Instead i have only 10 points for work experience. That gets me down to 60 points rather than 65 as claimed in the EOI. Is this correct. Please advice. So should i cancel my EOI?


Yep you can claim from Jan 2006 as per the details you have provided. If that means you have 60 points , you should update your EOI with the correct details . 

Please refer the following extract from Immi website 

_What if my circumstances change after submitting my EOI?
You must update your EOI.
If your circumstances change, you are required to update your EOI in SkillSelect. You should update your details to reflect any additional qualifications or experience you have obtained. SkillSelect will automatically take the changes into account and, if appropriate, will update your ranking. This may increase your chances to be invited._


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## misguided (Sep 11, 2012)

srangara said:


> Another question with the ACS skills assesment outcomes posted above in thread 455.
> 
> I have submitted employment docs right from Dec 2001 till Aug 2013.
> Why have the ACS give me credit only from Dec 2005. The last 10 years should mean from Aug 2003 right.


Depending on your education and the your work profile , the ACS case offices judges how many years you need to work before you can be assessed as having the required skills in ICT category you are applying. 

I personally had 4 years reduced from my experience. there are instances for people who had 6 years reduced. The best case scenario is deduction of two years.


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## mcgyver (Oct 29, 2013)

garrying,

I am not sure whether appeal for review will work, but if you plan to apply again in future, here is my suggestion:

You do *not* need to have another assessment from ACS if the assessment document you currently have is less than two years old.

Having said the above, if you are still holding the same job as at the time you did your assessment, you can gain points for the amount of time that has passed since the date of your assessment till now, *without* filing another case with ACS. You just need to update the reference letter from your current employer and provide usual evidence of employment (you know - payslip, tax doc, bank statements etc) to reflect on the additional months that you have worked at the company.

If you submit your EOI this month, then, according to your previous message, the total comes to be 55, which is short of the minimum by 5. The option that you have control over is the IELTS. You can take a month to prepare again for it and gain 7's in order to be rewarded 10 points. That can surely drag your total beyond 60 to 65 with no doubts.  Good luck, buddy.


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

Having old acs with no deduction, I have got my grant today. Just wanted to update ppl on this thread. My points were 65. I left the end date of my current employment empty and the system automatically updated my points from 60 to 65 in nov.


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> garrying,
> 
> I am not sure whether appeal for review will work, but if you plan to apply again in future, here is my suggestion:
> 
> ...


mcgyver, thank you again for giving this advise. It's constructive and calming advise at least. My migration agent was advising that we really need to get new ACS letter again. So I am not really sure what to do? I am holding same job so my experience has indeed increased.

For points can you please advise how did you arrive at 55 points considering I don't apply for ACS again?

For IELTS I was not getting any points as my score wasn't 7 bands in all modules. I am working out on this right now.

BTW, we don't have rights for appeal. Appeal is only for onshore applications not offshore.

Overall, I am confused as no one seems to be knowing how to take things further


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## sidmi (Feb 3, 2013)

I got my grant jan 13th with old ACS claiming all exp with RPL.


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## Birender (Nov 19, 2012)

garrying said:


> mcgyver, thank you again for giving this advise. It's constructive and calming advise at least. My migration agent was advising that we really need to get new ACS letter again. So I am not really sure what to do? I am holding same job so my experience has indeed increased.
> 
> For points can you please advise how did you arrive at 55 points considering I don't apply for ACS again?
> 
> ...


Your acs is valid for 2 years. And if you use the same ACS and reducing 2 years by your own in EOI, then i guess would not need a new ACS. Please check this with your agent. 

And i suggest you to try ielta again. Because if u get 7 each, your score will be 65 and your path will become smoother..

And which agent are you going to?


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## Waqarali20005 (Oct 7, 2013)

samkalu said:


> Having old acs with no deduction, I have got my grant today. Just wanted to update ppl on this thread. My points were 65. I left the end date of my current employment empty and the system automatically updated my points from 60 to 65 in nov.


Congrats on your grant


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## samkalu (Dec 12, 2012)

Waqarali20005 said:


> Congrats on your grant


Thanks


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## garrying (Aug 31, 2013)

Birender said:


> Your acs is valid for 2 years. And if you use the same ACS and reducing 2 years by your own in EOI, then i guess would not need a new ACS. Please check this with your agent.
> 
> And i suggest you to try ielta again. Because if u get 7 each, your score will be 65 and your path will become smoother..
> 
> And which agent are you going to?


Hi I can't name agent on public forum. But the real issue is whether we need reassessment or not?? I have less than a year old assessment without after date. Anyone lodging new application with old assessment? Thanks birender


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## Pololo2 (Jan 22, 2014)

Hi,
I need help for this inquiry
The ACS recognised my for experience from January to dec.
But, according to my payslip I worked 11 months and 20 days
How will DIAC will consider it ? 
Many thanks


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## NKF (Jul 1, 2014)

joejohn said:


> I have 8.5 years of experience in the last 10 years and ACS reduced 2 years out of it. Which means I got only 6.5 years which I can claim as skilled, even though ACS letter has listed 8.5 years of accepted experience. In EOI I had put all 8.5 which ACS has listed and points were calculated based on that.


what was ur points u claimed can u tell me


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## joejohn (May 8, 2013)

NKF said:


> what was ur points u claimed can u tell me


65 points


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## NKF (Jul 1, 2014)

joejohn said:


> 65 points


Gr8,,,so i guess as per your time line you got Grant in 2013 Sep..


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## PriyaIndia (Nov 27, 2015)

I might also face the same problem. Did the CO give time to increase your points? In my case to be on the safer side I took IELTS one more time and scored 7.0 in all(at the time of submission I got only 6.0). Will the CO consider the extra points incase of shortage of points.



garrying said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> I am going through very bad experience due to refusal of my SC 189 under skills select program.
> 
> ...


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## PriyaIndia (Nov 27, 2015)

Hi All,

I have submitted an EOI with 60 points claiming (30 - Age, 0 - English, 15 - Education, 15 - overseas experience for 8+ years) in July 2015. I have done the payment and waiting for the grant now(submitted PCC and medicals). However, later I realized that the ACS has reduced 2 years of my experience. But, I didn't bother because I got the invite in Dec 2015 and by the time I got 10 years of overseas experience(8 years after the skill met date - equivalent to 15 points) that says I can claim 15 points for experience. Now, I am not sure whether DIBP will consider my all experience only till the time of EOI submission OR the experience that I gathered between the EOI submission date and the Visa Invite time will be considered. To be on the safer side, I have given another English test before submitting my docs and got 7+ in all components(can claim 10 points). (To remind you, at the time of EOI submission I didn't claim any points for my English skills). But I have given the English test only after I pay for the visa(means after I got the Invite and before the document submission). Now, my question is, in-case of shortage of points can I show the new English test score that I obtained later and will the CO consider that?





srikar said:


> Hi Mumtaz,
> 
> Sad to know that your points were decreased.
> In order to claim spouse points,Spouse ACS/Skill assessment needs to be +ve and spouse occupation should be in same SOL as yours.
> ...


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## Dud_Dodo (Jun 27, 2013)

PriyaIndia said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have submitted an EOI with 60 points claiming (30 - Age, 0 - English, 15 - Education, 15 - overseas experience for 8+ years) in July 2015. I have done the payment and waiting for the grant now(submitted PCC and medicals). However, later I realized that the ACS has reduced 2 years of my experience. But, I didn't bother because I got the invite in Dec 2015 and by the time I got 10 years of overseas experience(8 years after the skill met date - equivalent to 15 points) that says I can claim 15 points for experience. Now, I am not sure whether DIBP will consider my all experience only till the time of EOI submission OR the experience that I gathered between the EOI submission date and the Visa Invite time will be considered. To be on the safer side, I have given another English test before submitting my docs and got 7+ in all components(can claim 10 points). (To remind you, at the time of EOI submission I didn't claim any points for my English skills). But I have given the English test only after I pay for the visa(means after I got the Invite and before the document submission). Now, my question is, in-case of shortage of points can I show the new English test score that I obtained later and will the CO consider that?


Points lost on one component cannot be covered by some other. What I mean is, if you think you'll not make up for the claimed points due to Years of Work Experience being considered to be lower than what you claimed points for, those loss of points cannot be claimed by a better English score. The EOI calculates your points based on how you had filled it and thus awarded specific points for each component of the points test. These results are obviously something known to the CO.

However, that being said, since you mention that you now probably make up the required points for your work experience since the assessment was from an earlier date, you probably would be safe. Since they do consider the years of experience between the assessment date and current date as well, based on what proof of employment you provide.

The first paragraph of my response is based on direct feedback from a MARA registered agent. Second paragraph is based on information I'd read up and out of my own experience.


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