# General visa application query on behalf of my Vietnamese girlfriend



## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello!

I was hoping someone with the experience and knowledge could give me some advice on a query regarding my subject.

My girlfriend has her meeting with the British Embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam next month for her general visit visa application to the UK and we are in the process of preparing all the supporting documents needed to aid her application.

One of the documents needed to support her application is a letter of invitation which we have duly received from my parents currently residing in the UK. (notarized).

I have two questions.

1. The lawyer who notarized the letter for me mentioned that usually as well as the notary an 'Apostille' stamp is also required. Can anyone confirm if this is the case or will the notarized invitation be sufficient.

2. The lawyer suggested that we should have the original document to aid her application, not a photocopy. Can anyone confirm if the letter of invitation can be a photocopy? I have been on the embassy's website and nowhere does it mention that it HAS to be the original, it mentions that supporting documents 'can be in the form of a scan or copy'.

Hopefully somebody out there can put my mind at ease.

Many thanks,

Michael


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

bonesy said:


> Hello!
> 
> I was hoping someone with the experience and knowledge could give me some advice on a query regarding my subject.
> 
> ...





> 1. The lawyer who notarized the letter for me mentioned that usually as well as the notary an 'Apostille' stamp is also required. Can anyone confirm if this is the case or will the notarized invitation be sufficient.


Apostille not required for sponsor's letter.



> 2. The lawyer suggested that we should have the original document to aid her application, not a photocopy. Can anyone confirm if the letter of invitation can be a photocopy? I have been on the embassy's website and nowhere does it mention that it HAS to be the original, it mentions that supporting documents 'can be in the form of a scan or copy'.


It should be original with hand-written signature. It should also be accompanied by bank statement showing they can afford to maintain her during her stay.
Also see UK Border Agency | Sponsoring a general visitor


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Joppa,

Thank you very much for replying.

I don't mean to question your reply as I know you have a great deal of experience in this field but I do appear to have contradicting information.

I did Email the embassy ([email protected]) a short while ago to ask this question, please see my E-mail and the reply. 


_To whom it may concern,

I was hoping I could ask a quick question regarding applying for a 'visit' visa to the UK.

I am an English citizen and am planning a trip to visit my family in June with my Vietnamese girlfriend.

I have been informed she requires a letter of invitation from my family which they are currently arranging.

How important is it that the letter of invitation is a original document and not a photocopy? I have a scanned copy of the notarized letter and the original document is on the way from England, however I am concerned we will not receive it in time for my girlfriends meeting with the Embassy in one months time.

Any assurance or advice you could give me would be great.

Kind regards,
_

and the reply...
_

Thank you for contacting the UK Border Agency’s Visa Enquiries mailbox in Vietnam.

Please refer to our website which contains all our visa guidance:

You will need to make an online application by going to:

*visa4uk website*

*The supporting documents can be in form of fax or scan. Therefore, any documents from the UK can be faxed or sent to you directly via email.*

Please see attached the guidance for supporting documents for more information. _

How do you read this reply? I have actually replied to them clarifying this is the case following your message. Can I trust this information?

Thanks again for your help,

Bonesy


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Also, does it mention anywhere on the UKBA website that the supporting documentation (letter of invitation etc) has to be original documentation? If I can find this I will forward this information to them to query.

Thanks!


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry,

One more query!

Should the supporting documents (bank statements etc) be in black and white or scanned coloured copies?

thanks,


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

bonesy said:


> Sorry,
> 
> One more query!
> 
> ...


Bank statements _*must* be *ORIGINAL BANK ISSUED* and *NOT* online banking printouts_... failure to submit _bank issued_ statements will result in a refusal... using the statements that the bank has mailed to your home are fine, as are statements printed out and stamped by the bank or accompanied by a letter from the bank verifying their authenticity.

_ETA: if you would like your original documents back (P60, bank statement, mortgage, birth certificate etc) you are more than welcome to send in black and white *or* colour copies (choice is yours, it doesn't matter which colour format you choose) along with the originals... as long as you send in copies, the UKBA will keep them in your file and send your originals back to you if you, otherwise they reserve the right to keep the originals you send in._


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank you for your reply,

Please may I ask your source for this information? I have found nowhere it states this information on the website.

Did you read my previous post where they stated direct in an Email it could be a copy?

*The supporting documents can be in form of fax or scan. Therefore, any documents from the UK can be faxed or sent to you directly via email.*

My parents also paid for advice from a company called ICS Legal UK Immigration Advice who gave them the steps needed, and their advice was originals should be used wherever possible. 

I'm sorry to question this, it's just the conflicting information between the embassy and everyone else who says it should be originals which have me confused,


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Someone applying for a settlement visa late last year was refused a fianc(e)e visa because they sent in scanned payslips and not the originals.

Item 172 (page 46) of this document published by the UKBA in June 2012 deals with original documents versus copies, and while that item also says 



> ... if the applicant does not provide the specified documents, the UK Border Agency will contact the applicant to ask for them...


that first "refusal" link I suppled would indicate that the ECOs _have *not*_ been contacting applicants to ask for the original document and just issuing a refusal out of turn.


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

but this is not a settlement visa. I just want concrete evidence (ideally something on the official guide from the embassy) advising that it either HAS to be an original or it doesn't. Many sources have told me it can be copies, you are the first person to tell me the bank statements have to be originals.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

bonesy said:


> but this is not a settlement visa. I just want concrete evidence (ideally something on the official guide from the embassy) advising that it either HAS to be an original or it doesn't. Many sources have told me it can be copies, you are the first person to tell me the bank statements have to be originals.


Guidance notes for a Family Visitor Visa indicate _original documents_ are to be sent.

General "how to apply for a visa" instructions (yes, I know that it's for Hong Kong and Maccau, but country location shouldn't matter in this regard) specify originals *and* copies.

Documents are easy to forge these days (I could pay to have a _legitimate looking_ Harvard/Oxford/Yale/MIT degree drawn up in my name that is 100% fake just as easily as I could have bank statements forged showing that I have £62500 in cash in the bank and that it has been sitting there for >180 days, thus excusing my husband from the sponsor's minimum income requirement), so the UKBA expects visa applicants to submit original documents.


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Again I'm sorry but I disagree with you on this one. The link you gave me is for a 'Family Visitor'. She is applying as a 'general visitor'. 

If the guidance form for 'general visitor' states it needs to be an original then I will believe it. But it doesnt! :/


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

bonesy said:


> Again I'm sorry but I disagree with you on this one. The link you gave me is for a 'Family Visitor'. She is applying as a 'general visitor'.
> 
> If the guidance form for 'general visitor' states it needs to be an original then I will believe it. But it doesnt! :/


This "Applying for a UK VIsa Vietnam" page specifies _originals_



> Before you apply
> 
> Before you apply, you must:
> 
> ...


It's there on the UKBA website and took me <5 minutes to find.


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Again I disagree with you (I'm really sorry, I don't mean to be a pain and appreciate you giving your input)

This information you have posted from the website is clearly for her own documentation (e.g my girlfriends bank statements, my girlfriends work contract etc which we will duly comply with) not for supporting documents sent from the UK.

Did you read the E-mail the embassy sent to me which I posted above?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

bonesy said:


> Again I disagree with you (I'm really sorry, I don't mean to be a pain)
> 
> This information you have posted from the website is clearly for her own documentation (e.g my girlfriends bank statements, my girlfriends work contract etc which we will duly comply with) not for supporting documents sent from the UK.
> 
> Did you read the E-mail the embassy sent to me which I posted above?


Yes, I did read the email that the embassy sent to you. 

Did _you_ read the guidance from the Home Office that I posted on this page specifying that all supporting documents _must_ be originals? 

Joppa's response to you at #2 says that the original, hand signed letter of invitation should be sent. Your immigration consultant has suggested that the original letter should be sent. The Home Office website has specified that all documentation submitted for consideration _must_ be original. 

Your letter of invitation to visit that you wrote for your girlfriend is considered to be a "document of support" in regards to her visa application in the same manner as her bank statements and all of the other documentation that she will be submitting so, going by what the Home Office has said online, the original should be sent. When I submitted my visa application last summer, I had to send in an original letter written and signed by my then fiance.

The Home Office is in charge of setting of rules the section of the embassy in Vietnam that will be dealing with your girlfriend's application, and as such their guidance trumps anything that might be said to you via email from a consular employee who may not know the specifics regarding visas well enough to give you a concise answer. 

Heck, even the front line Border Force (whose primary job _is_ all things immigration) don't always know _everything_ about up to date visa regulations and get it wrong from time to time, so it would be ill advised to depend on the general, _non specific_ knowledge of consular staff and go with what the governing department (in this case, the Home Office) has to say.

Yes, I know that conflicting information can and often is frustrating, but if the Home Office website says originals must be sent, then originals are to be sent.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Just curious though (and I'm not trying to have a go at you)....

Why all of this reluctance to send your girlfriend the original letter? 

I mean, yes I know that scanning and emailing is faster, but if you're willing to pay for having the thing notarised, then what's so difficult to pop it into the mail or send it by courier? (if you do decide to mail it, please please pretty please don't use Royal Mail's Airsure service... it's an unreliable rip-off and slower than 1st Class Royal Mail... use a proper courier).


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank you for your information,

Well I will receive the original letter of invitation and a bank statement from my parents, but they are not willing to send important original documentation such as their land registry to us. My girlfriend has sufficient funds to pay for her own trip, so she will take ORIGINAL copies of her own bank statements to prove this.

IF they reject any documentation from my parents for not being originals so be it, we will both just pray that the documentation she provides will cover anything that my parent's can't.


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> Just curious though (and I'm not trying to have a go at you)....
> 
> Why all of this reluctance to send your girlfriend the original letter?
> 
> I mean, yes I know that scanning and emailing is faster, but if you're willing to pay for having the thing notarised, then what's so difficult to pop it into the mail or send it by courier? (if you do decide to mail it, please please pretty please don't use Royal Mail's Airsure service... it's an unreliable rip-off and slower than 1st Class Royal Mail... use a proper courier).


As mentioned above, unfortunately my Father is very reluctant to be separated from documents with his personal information on it. As he has suffered from identity theft in the past which gave him major problems.

Please don't think I'm ignoring your advice, it's just hard to accept when you hear it different from many different sources including the embassy itself!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just a comment about email from the embassy. All immigration queries are handled and answered by the commercial agent VFS, who simply quote from publicly-available rules and guidance. Don't take what they say at face value. Mistakes are made (we have come across often!) They don't make decisions and processing is done by UKBA staff in Bangkok, the new regional visa hub. There are no longer immigration staff working at British embassy in Vietnam. If you rely on VFS advice and you get refused, you can't state you were simply going by what you have been told. It's always your decision and you take responsibility for it. We who have years and decades of track record dealing with Home Office and advising people globally speak from experience, and there is always a danger involved in sending copies when originals are available. There is no need for your father to send original title deeds, but original council tax or utility bill will act as proof of occupancy.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

bonesy said:


> As mentioned above, unfortunately my Father is very reluctant to be separated from documents with his personal information on it. As he has suffered from identity theft in the past which gave him major problems.
> 
> Please don't think I'm ignoring your advice, it's just hard to accept when you hear it different from many different sources including the embassy itself!


If in doubt, I'd assume that consular staff know absolutely nothing beyond basic British current events, hours of consular operation and which department to transfer your call/email to and go by the guidance that has been published by the governing section responsible for the service that you want. 

For visa and immigration services, follow UK Border Agency/Home Office guidance which, in this case, states that original documents must be submitted. 

I'm sorry that your Dad has had identity theft issues in the past. Sending the letter to your girlfriend via courier is probably the easiest and most secure way to get it to her short of taking it to her yourself... wish I could recommend Airsure, but was burned by them last year... in spite of the claims to the opposite, my now husband's information (including P60, original banking statements, original birth certificate) was _not_ tracked for the entire journey and while it eventually got to me (in longer time than if he'd just tossed it into regular mail), the envelope sat lost in space for the better part of the week before someone in the customs section of Canada Post in Vancouver scanned its arrival in the customs clearance area. 

Other than that, I don't know what else to suggest. You could try to send a copy of the letter with a note specifying the reason why it's not the original and hope that the ECO in Vietnam are understanding, but as several different sources have suggested, it would be more beneficial to send the original document.

Good luck to you.


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## bonesy (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay.

I can't thank you both enough for your input.

To finally confirm what I will ask from my parents I will list below.

Notarized letter of invitation - Original
Biometric passport page from both of my parents - Photocopy
Land Registry - Photocopy
Mortgage deed to property - Photocopy? Is this okay?
Bank account statement (past 6 months - Originals
Utility Bills (phone bill/water bill) - Original
Council tax - Original

Do you think this documentation would be sufficient?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, more than enough. The thing to remember is that as Vietnam is a 'poor' country, financial sponsorship for a visitor takes on greater importance than, say, someone from developped countries.


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