# Academic jobs in Canada



## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

Hi all, 
I am new to this forum. I am an Australian/New Zealand Citizen interested in Academic positions in Canada. I am not intending to settle in Canada (only want to stay for 2-3 years to get some experience). By qualifications, I will have completed my PhD early next year and I already have two Masters and a degree in Medicine (No, I don't want to work as a Doctor in Canada). I have a small family ( wife and a 7 year old son). I am open to any University and place in Canada that can offer me the position and salary I require ( I have several years of teaching, Management and research experience). 

Can any of you suggest how I identify opportunities, obtain necessary visa. Also I would appreciate if someone can provide info about living costs ( compared to Australia), health care arrangements ( I require long term but occasional primary care needs), and schooling for my son.

Thanks in advance.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I'd say that you should wait for Colchar to show up... he's worked in academia and would be able to tell you what is what.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how frequently/often he'll be around during this weekend, as it's the (Canadian) Thanksgiving Day weekend, and a lot of people have Friday _and_ Monday off.


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## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> I'd say that you should wait for Colchar to show up... he's worked in academia and would be able to tell you what is what.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm not sure how frequently/often he'll be around during this weekend, as it's the (Canadian) Thanksgiving Day weekend, and a lot of people have Friday _and_ Monday off.


Thanks and no problem I can wait for Colchar.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

docsunny50 said:


> Hi all,
> I am new to this forum. I am an Australian/New Zealand Citizen interested in Academic positions in Canada. I am not intending to settle in Canada (only want to stay for 2-3 years to get some experience). By qualifications, I will have completed my PhD early next year and I already have two Masters and a degree in Medicine (No, I don't want to work as a Doctor in Canada). I have a small family ( wife and a 7 year old son). I am open to any University and place in Canada that can offer me the position and salary I require ( I have several years of teaching, Management and research experience).
> 
> Can any of you suggest how I identify opportunities, obtain necessary visa. Also I would appreciate if someone can provide info about living costs ( compared to Australia), health care arrangements ( I require long term but occasional primary care needs), and schooling for my son.
> ...



Sorry, but unless you have something very specific to offer a university it is highly unlikely that you will get an academic job (ie. a teaching position). We have literally thousands of PhDs here and nowhere near enough teaching positions for all of them. Most are forced to leave academia or they are stuck working on sessional contracts from one year to the next with no job security. And even those sessional contracts get hundreds and hundreds of applications each.

If you already held a teaching position in Australia/New Zealand it _might_ be possible to get a position as a visiting professor for a year or two but, otherwise, finding a teaching position will be very difficult.

As for positions in administration, you might, _maybe_, be able to snag a limited term contract position but most of those are used to try people out before hiring them on full-time (ie. you do a couple of one year contracts and are then hired on permanently). There are some that are strictly limited term positions but most of those involve secondments of people who already work in administration at the particular school, they just have them switch departments for a year (or whatever the duration of the position is). There are a very limited number of contract positions which are not being used to try people out and are not reserved for secondments.

And the unions can also be a right pain in the arse when it comes to people being hired from outside of the school. You'd think they would want new people hired because that would increase their membership but no. A couple of years ago when I was preparing to leave my PhD program I applied for a position in administration at a local community college. I did well in the interview but the person who called me back from Human Resources was very apologetic and explained that didn't get the position because someone who already worked there had demanded that they be interviewed for the same position. This person had missed the internal application deadline and had missed the external application deadline but one day decided that they wanted to interview for the position. The union refused to allow anyone (ie. me) to be hired form outside of the institution and insisted that the internal person be interviewed. They eventually got the job. It mattered not to the union that I was already part of their union, albeit at another local. It mattered not that the person hadn't followed any of the steps in the hiring process. It mattered not that hiring me would have increased their membership. None of that mattered, they simply refused to allow anyone other than that internal person to be hired. So not only are positions hard to come by, the unions can screw things right up as well.

You also run the risk of being told that you are overqualified for many administrative positions. I interviewed for one at a different college than the one mentioned above and the first thing the person who would have been my immediate supervisor said in the interview was "you are overqualified for this position and I do not want to hire someone who will leave after a few months for a better position." It set one hell of a bad tone for the interview and made me wonder why she was even interviewing me. it was obvious that _her_ supervisor, who was present at my interview, had made her interview me as that person was far nicer. I did well in that interview and they wanted to check my references. As it turned out, two of my references were difficult to reach because they were out of the country at the time. The woman was rather rude to me about that when asking for extra references. Because I had been in graduate school for so long I had lost touch with people for whom I used to work and who could have acted as additional references and the woman was rather bitchy about the whole situation. All she had to do was wait for a week after which my references would be back in the country but she was unwilling to do that. Nothing moves quickly in administration as they are a bureaucracy but she acted as if things had to be taken care of instantly. Personally, I think she was just looking for an excuse not to hire me (I am basing that on her opening comments in the interview). I had left my PhD program because I was sick of the BS involved and had done another post-grad qualification. So I had that, my B.A., and my Master's degree and those made me overqualified for the position. You would be in the same boat.

I spent a decade in academia and love the environment so I can understand your desire to work in academia. But, if I were you, I would take the PhD to the private sector as I think you will have a far better chance of securing a job - even one that just lasts for a year or two.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

Sorry, I forgot to add something but it seems that I have passed the time limit for editing my previous post so will have to post the other info here.

As for living costs, etc. those will vary widely across the country. It really is impossible to give a generalized answer to that question because Canada is the second largest country in the world. Australia is the sixth largest country in the world and, as you well know, the cost of living in Perth is completely different from the cost of living in Darwin, which is completely different from the cost of living in Sidney. Since Canada is even larger than Australia, the cost of living varies even more widely here. And it also varies within the individual provinces - the cost of living in a large city will be very different from the cost of living in a small town.

Healthcare is a provincial responsibility here in Canada so it varies from one province to the next. Once you have narrowed down which province you might settle in we can provide answers but we cannot at this stage.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

interesting article:
I Teach University Physics, But I'm on Government Assistance | Andrew Robinson


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## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

colchar said:


> Sorry, but unless you have something very specific to offer a university it is highly unlikely that you will get an academic job (ie. a teaching position). We have literally thousands of PhDs here and nowhere near enough teaching positions for all of them. Most are forced to leave academia or they are stuck working on sessional contracts from one year to the next with no job security. And even those sessional contracts get hundreds and hundreds of applications each. If you already held a teaching position in Australia/New Zealand it might be possible to get a position as a visiting professor for a year or two but, otherwise, finding a teaching position will be very difficult. As for positions in administration, you might, maybe, be able to snag a limited term contract position but most of those are used to try people out before hiring them on full-time (ie. you do a couple of one year contracts and are then hired on permanently). There are some that are strictly limited term positions but most of those involve secondments of people who already work in administration at the particular school, they just have them switch departments for a year (or whatever the duration of the position is). There are a very limited number of contract positions which are not being used to try people out and are not reserved for secondments. And the unions can also be a right pain in the arse when it comes to people being hired from outside of the school. You'd think they would want new people hired because that would increase their membership but no. A couple of years ago when I was preparing to leave my PhD program I applied for a position in administration at a local community college. I did well in the interview but the person who called me back from Human Resources was very apologetic and explained that didn't get the position because someone who already worked there had demanded that they be interviewed for the same position. This person had missed the internal application deadline and had missed the external application deadline but one day decided that they wanted to interview for the position. The union refused to allow anyone (ie. me) to be hired form outside of the institution and insisted that the internal person be interviewed. They eventually got the job. It mattered not to the union that I was already part of their union, albeit at another local. It mattered not that the person hadn't followed any of the steps in the hiring process. It mattered not that hiring me would have increased their membership. None of that mattered, they simply refused to allow anyone other than that internal person to be hired. So not only are positions hard to come by, the unions can screw things right up as well. You also run the risk of being told that you are overqualified for many administrative positions. I interviewed for one at a different college than the one mentioned above and the first thing the person who would have been my immediate supervisor said in the interview was "you are overqualified for this position and I do not want to hire someone who will leave after a few months for a better position." It set one hell of a bad tone for the interview and made me wonder why she was even interviewing me. it was obvious that her supervisor, who was present at my interview, had made her interview me as that person was far nicer. I did well in that interview and they wanted to check my references. As it turned out, two of my references were difficult to reach because they were out of the country at the time. The woman was rather rude to me about that when asking for extra references. Because I had been in graduate school for so long I had lost touch with people for whom I used to work and who could have acted as additional references and the woman was rather bitchy about the whole situation. All she had to do was wait for a week after which my references would be back in the country but she was unwilling to do that. Nothing moves quickly in administration as they are a bureaucracy but she acted as if things had to be taken care of instantly. Personally, I think she was just looking for an excuse not to hire me (I am basing that on her opening comments in the interview). I had left my PhD program because I was sick of the BS involved and had done another post-grad qualification. So I had that, my B.A., and my Master's degree and those made me overqualified for the position. You would be in the same boat. I spent a decade in academia and love the environment so I can understand your desire to work in academia. But, if I were you, I would take the PhD to the private sector as I think you will have a far better chance of securing a job - even one that just lasts for a year or two.


Thanks indeed Colchar for the detailed reply. I had a sneaking suspicion that academic jobs were competitive in Canada (it is true here in OZ too) but did not realise it is that bad in Canada. I am not keen on moving to Canada for administration jobs and that too for a year. However, I have some time on my hands-so will be tracking academic jobs ( or combined academic/admin jobs) over this year and next, and try out my luck. Here in OZ, the premier job website is SEEK. Is there a Canadian equivalent?


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## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

colchar said:


> Sorry, I forgot to add something but it seems that I have passed the time limit for editing my previous post so will have to post the other info here. As for living costs, etc. those will vary widely across the country. It really is impossible to give a generalized answer to that question because Canada is the second largest country in the world. Australia is the sixth largest country in the world and, as you well know, the cost of living in Perth is completely different from the cost of living in Darwin, which is completely different from the cost of living in Sidney. Since Canada is even larger than Australia, the cost of living varies even more widely here. And it also varies within the individual provinces - the cost of living in a large city will be very different from the cost of living in a small town. Healthcare is a provincial responsibility here in Canada so it varies from one province to the next. Once you have narrowed down which province you might settle in we can provide answers but we cannot at this stage.


Thanks again Colchar.


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## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

EVHB said:


> interesting article: I Teach University Physics, But I'm on Government AssistanceÂ |Â Andrew Robinson


What a pity. Unfortunately, this seems to be the case world over. I still can't fathom how academics are less valued than IT programmers or Managers? What this does is push PhD's into private industry.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

docsunny50 said:


> Thanks indeed Colchar for the detailed reply. I had a sneaking suspicion that academic jobs were competitive in Canada (it is true here in OZ too) but did not realise it is that bad in Canada. I am not keen on moving to Canada for administration jobs and that too for a year. However, I have some time on my hands-so will be tracking academic jobs ( or combined academic/admin jobs) over this year and next, and try out my luck. Here in OZ, the premier job website is SEEK. Is there a Canadian equivalent?



For academic jobs check a list of universities and look at each school's website. You can also check here:

Jobs at the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

docsunny50 said:


> What a pity. Unfortunately, this seems to be the case world over. I still can't fathom how academics are less valued than IT programmers or Managers? What this does is push PhD's into private industry.



The thing is, if you are one of the lucky few (or, more accurately, very very very few) who get a tenure track position and then achieve tenure the salaries and benefits here in Canada are extremely good. The number of profs per university earning over $100k per year would astound you (profs here get paid far more than profs in the US do).


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## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

colchar said:


> The thing is, if you are one of the lucky few (or, more accurately, very very very few) who get a tenure track position and then achieve tenure the salaries and benefits here in Canada are extremely good. The number of profs per university earning over $100k per year would astound you (profs here get paid far more than profs in the US do).


Thanks Colchar. I already earn well over $100k and the Canadian $ is nearly the same as Aus$, so won't be moving for anything lesser ( my classmate is in a medical academic position and earns $180K in Ontario but his is a clinical teaching appointment, which I am not aiming at).


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