# What to expect for housing in Germany



## invisibulman (Aug 1, 2013)

Hey all, I just found this forum and am hoping this is the place to ask all of my dumb questions about moving abroad. 

My wife and I have been discussing a move to Europe. Given my profession, Frankfurt and Munich seem to be the most likely places I would find a job. Assuming I have a salary of 90,000 Euros and a small child at home, what sort of house/apartment could I rent and live comfortably within that budget?

Thanks


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## beppi (Jun 10, 2013)

Munich is the most expensive place to rent in Germany. A two bedroom flat will cost you at least €800-1000/month in the suburbs, three bedroom or central location adds to that.
Frankfurt is probably 20-30% less, and costs drop faster as you move away from the centre.
But your more immediate problem will be finding a job and getting a work permit (which is not easy for non-EU citizens).
The salary you mention is very high - top 5% of earners in Germany. Don't forget to deduct the (high) taxes and (compulsory) social security and other contributions when you do your calculations - they can (depending on your personal situation) be up to almost 50% of the salary.


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## Nash000 (Apr 25, 2013)

For Munich, check out 

Wohnung München - im offiziellen Stadtportal für München

to browse around a bit. Unfortunately not in English, but should be pretty self-explaining.

To get from your gross 90k € to net, deduct 50% as a very inaccurate rule of thumb. Being married and having a child will help you somewhat with the taxes. Health insurance for the whole family will be in these 50% (unless you pefer a private insurance).


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## invisibulman (Aug 1, 2013)

Good information. Thank you. 

I am a fully credentialed actuary (Aktuar), so I have the good fortune of being in a highly skilled profession that is very much in demand. I am hoping this helps as far as getting a work permit. Many of the jobs I see available are in Munich, Frankfurt or Zurich. I was assuming the immigration requirements to Switzerland were to difficult to bother with. 

I understand the tax situation can take a big bite out of salary, but I also understand certain things (like health insurance) are covered as part of that. I am having difficulty trying to determine what a reasonably budget is for housing. On a 90,000 euro salary, should I be looking at places that are 2,000 per month? Too much? Too little?


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## beppi (Jun 10, 2013)

As far as I have heard (without having tried it myself), getting a work permit in Switzerland is easier than in the EU, where the employer has to prove that there are no similarly skilled EU citizens (which have to be hired before foreigners). Given the high unemployment, especially in Southern Europe, this is hard. Switzerland has less unemployment and a smaller job market with shortages in several areas - and you compete with EU people on level ground. Salaries are also higher there, as are rents and cost of living.
Your rental budget should depend on what is available on the housing market, not what you have in your pocket.


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## Nash000 (Apr 25, 2013)

invisibulman said:


> Good information. Thank you.
> 
> I am a fully credentialed actuary (Aktuar), so I have the good fortune of being in a highly skilled profession that is very much in demand. I am hoping this helps as far as getting a work permit. Many of the jobs I see available are in Munich, Frankfurt or Zurich. I was assuming the immigration requirements to Switzerland were to difficult to bother with.
> 
> I understand the tax situation can take a big bite out of salary, but I also understand certain things (like health insurance) are covered as part of that. I am having difficulty trying to determine what a reasonably budget is for housing. On a 90,000 euro salary, should I be looking at places that are 2,000 per month? Too much? Too little?


Neat, Aktuar. As far as I know (I do some consulting in the insurance industry), actuaries are very much in demand in Germany. That def. should help w/ permit. Btw, there are big insurances in other places as well. Hannover (HannoverRück, HDI), Düsseldorf (Ergo), Cologne (AXA, Gerling) come to mind if you want to broaden your search a little. 

For rent in Germany you have to make a distinction between "warm" rent ("Warmmiete" in german, utilities etc. included) and "cold" (or "Kaltmiete" in German, nothing included) rent. 

As a rule of thumb, your warm rent shouldn't be more than 30% of your net income. In your case, assuming a net of 5000 € per month (check out Steuerrechner 2013 - Steuer Berechnung nach Steuertarif 2013 for gross - net calculation) gives you a warm rent of 1500 € which should be fine for a nice flat (maybe not in Munich center). 

Hope that helps.


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## invisibulman (Aug 1, 2013)

Fantastic! You guys are awesome. This is very helpful. 

My search will be wide open to anywhere in continental Europe, but just playing the odds those cities seem like the most likely landing spots.


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## tobefar77 (May 12, 2013)

Beppi, do you know something about finance related jobs in Switzerland? Because Switzerland is a well known place of banking though I don't have an experience in banking. 

My uncle lived in Munich for about 40 years. He was complaining about the high rent prices in Munich. I don't know how much he was paying. I heard rent prices are higher in villages than urban places in almost all over the Europe. Is that true?


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## beppi (Jun 10, 2013)

tobefar77 said:


> Beppi, do you know something about finance related jobs in Switzerland?


Not my industry, sorry, no idea!



tobefar77 said:


> He was complaining about the high rent prices in Munich.


Munich has the highest rents in Germany. You'll pay EUR400-500 for a sublet room, EUR600-800 for a one-room or studio and EUR800-1200 for a two bedroom flat.



tobefar77 said:


> I heard rent prices are higher in villages than urban places in almost all over the Europe. Is that true?


Not true! The further you go from city centres, the cheaper rents generally become.


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## invisibulman (Aug 1, 2013)

tobefar77 said:


> do you know something about finance related jobs in Switzerland? Because Switzerland is a well known place of banking though I don't have an experience in banking.


Finance is my industry, which is largely why I am focusing on Switzerland/Germany as destinations. I have seen many jobs available in Switzerland, but it may be difficult to obtain them without being an EU citizen. I have spoken to a couple head-hunters about jobs in Europe and generally have been told that Switzerland is more difficult than other countries (though it is easier than it has been in the past.) The law requires that for any job, priority must by given to:

1.) Swiss nationals...
2.) European Union nationals...
3.) Expats currently living in the EU...
4.) Everyone else.

Being from the US, I fall into the last group. This means in order for me to get a job in Switzerland the company would need to demonstrate that they could not find a qualified candidate from the first 3 groups. Without having previous experience in banking, this will be difficult for you. If you are serious about it, I would try to gain some experience in the industry and/or look to emigrate to some other EU country first to establish residence. 

Not speaking from first hand account, only what I have read and heard.


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