# Taking German Citizenship



## Fledermaus

I'm considering becoming a German citizen as I have lived many years in this country and I feel it would be advantageous to me as I am hoping to do my exams to become a certified psychological psychotherapist next year and complete the "Antrag auf Approbation". In 2012 they changed the laws here in Germany making it possible to apply for the Approbation as a non-EU citizen, but I still worry I might run into difficulties. 
I would like to hear if anyone has gone through the process of becoming a German citizen. I am American and have lived in Germany for 23 years and I'm married to a German citizen (we've been married for 20 years). I have three children, all are dual nationals of both countries (USA and Germany). My family, friends and career are here in Germany. As far as I can tell I fulfill all the requirements of taking citizenship i.e., I've lived here over 8 years, I have a German university degree (Diplom) which shows that I have mastered the German language, and I have an "unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht", I don't have a police record etc. I realize, however, I would need to give up my US citizenship and I'm not sure about this step. I feel very torn between my loyalty and belonging to the country of my birth, but also a growing sense that I need to feel a stronger bond to the country I have a adopted. What do others in a similar situation feel? 

Thanks in advance for your replies.
Beth


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## Bevdeforges

I know an American who gave up her US nationality to take German nationality - quite a few years ago now. Basically, you have to produce the renunciation certificate as part of your application for German citizenship (or did back then) so technically you will be "stateless" for a week or two while your papers are being processed.

One big argument for taking the nationality of the country in which you live is that it gives you a voice in how things are done there (i.e. the right to vote). The only other consideration is how often you got back to the US to visit - when you do, it would probably be best to bring your renunciation certificate with you, as it is possible they might ask why you are entering the US on a German passport if they notice your place of birth is in the US.

The only other consideration might be if you have benefit rights (i.e. US social security) or investments still in the US. If you do, there's a 30% withholding slapped on all payments - for which you would have to file a NR tax return in order to get the excess withholding returned to you. 

But by and large, the practical side of giving up your US citizenship is primarily that you'll be free of the obligation to file US tax returns. It's more of an emotional issue than anything else, IMO. (BTW - full disclosure: I have dual nationality still. Have not yet decided it to be worth the hassle and expense to renounce - but in your case, if you want the German nationality, you don't have the choice.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## ALKB

Fledermaus said:


> I'm considering becoming a German citizen as I have lived many years in this country and I feel it would be advantageous to me as I am hoping to do my exams to become a certified psychological psychotherapist next year and complete the "Antrag auf Approbation". In 2012 they changed the laws here in Germany making it possible to apply for the Approbation as a non-EU citizen, but I still worry I might run into difficulties.
> I would like to hear if anyone has gone through the process of becoming a German citizen. I am American and have lived in Germany for 23 years and I'm married to a German citizen (we've been married for 20 years). I have three children, all are dual nationals of both countries (USA and Germany). My family, friends and career are here in Germany. As far as I can tell I fulfill all the requirements of taking citizenship i.e., I've lived here over 8 years, I have a German university degree (Diplom) which shows that I have mastered the German language, and I have an "unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht", I don't have a police record etc. I realize, however, I would need to give up my US citizenship and I'm not sure about this step. I feel very torn between my loyalty and belonging to the country of my birth, but also a growing sense that I need to feel a stronger bond to the country I have a adopted. What do others in a similar situation feel?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your replies.
> Beth


Have you thought of putting in a Beibehaltungsantrag?

With dual national children you might be able to argue your case.

If they decline it, you can always take it from there.


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## Fledermaus

Bevdeforges said:


> The only other consideration might be if you have benefit rights (i.e. US social security) or investments still in the US. If you do, there's a 30% withholding slapped on all payments - for which you would have to file a NR tax return in order to get the excess withholding returned to you.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Bev


I have no investments or benefit rights in the US. My only concern is how to deal with money/property I will eventually receive through inheritance if I am not an American citizen. 

Beth


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## Fledermaus

ALKB said:


> Have you thought of putting in a Beibehaltungsantrag?
> 
> With dual national children you might be able to argue your case.
> 
> If they decline it, you can always take it from there.


No, I hadn't thought about this. I need to find out if it would be possible.

Beth


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## Bevdeforges

Fledermaus said:


> I have no investments or benefit rights in the US. My only concern is how to deal with money/property I will eventually receive through inheritance if I am not an American citizen.
> 
> Beth


The inheritance shouldn't really be an issue. In the US inheritance tax (when it is due) is payable by the estate before the estate is distributed to the heirs. For bringing your inheritance into Germany, they will probably ask for proof that the appropriate taxes have been paid in the US (usually a probate certificate), but otherwise you just bring your inheritance on over.

Not positive, but I think the inheritance taxes only cause a problem if you are a non-US citizen inheriting from a US citizen spouse. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fledermaus

ALKB said:


> Have you thought of putting in a Beibehaltungsantrag?
> 
> With dual national children you might be able to argue your case.
> 
> If they decline it, you can always take it from there.


I've done some research and it seems that a "Beibehaltungsantrag" is only possible for Germans when they want to take another citizenship.
It seems the Germans do have some exceptions for foreign nationals who wish keep their present nationality (e.g., if they come from countries which do not allow its citizens to renounce citizenship) and then become German, but Americans do not fall into this category. It does say something about keeping your nationality if the other state requires "unzumutbare Bedingungen für die Entlassung" (unreasonable requirements to renounce your citizenship). As an example they state that overly expensive fees fall into this category: "das können z. B. überhöhte Gebühren (mehr als Sie in einem Monat brutto verdienen, aber mindestens 1.280,00 €)" at the moment it costs 450 dollars to renounce US citizenship, if the costs goes up (and I have read they may do this to deter Americans from renouncing their citizenship) this may eventually be enough of a reason for the German government to allow dual nationality.


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## Nononymous

The way things are going, the US is only a few years away from "unzumutbare Bedingungen" so you might be in luck. But I wouldn't count on it. 

Then again, why not give it up to get German - this will spare you all the tax and banking silliness?


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## ALKB

Fledermaus said:


> I've done some research and it seems that a "Beibehaltungsantrag" is only possible for Germans when they want to take another citizenship.
> It seems the Germans do have some exceptions for foreign nationals who wish keep their present nationality (e.g., if they come from countries which do not allow its citizens to renounce citizenship) and then become German, but Americans do not fall into this category. It does say something about keeping your nationality if the other state requires "unzumutbare Bedingungen für die Entlassung" (unreasonable requirements to renounce your citizenship). As an example they state that overly expensive fees fall into this category: "das können z. B. überhöhte Gebühren (mehr als Sie in einem Monat brutto verdienen, aber mindestens 1.280,00 €)" at the moment it costs 450 dollars to renounce US citizenship, if the costs goes up (and I have read they may do this to deter Americans from renouncing their citizenship) this may eventually be enough of a reason for the German government to allow dual nationality.



I know that sometimes Americans can keep their citizenship but I think the cases I am thinking of are applications based on ancestry, that might make all the difference.


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## Fledermaus

ALKB said:


> I know that sometimes Americans can keep their citizenship but I think the cases I am thinking of are applications based on ancestry, that might make all the difference.


I actually do have German ancestry (my great-great grandparents are from Berlin). I believe that is probably too long ago to really prove a case. Although according to my great-grandmother, her father had to leave Germany in the 1880's due to political reasons (he was free mason). Maybe I could make a case that he was "vertrieben" (a sort of political refugee). Somehow I don't think they will buy this though. If you know of any good links about Americans who have actually managed let me know.

Beth


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## Fledermaus

Nononymous said:


> The way things are going, the US is only a few years away from "unzumutbare Bedingungen" so you might be in luck. But I wouldn't count on it.
> 
> Then again, why not give it up to get German - this will spare you all the tax and banking silliness?


You are probably right...it would spare me a lot of panic and worry around the tax FACTA issue, but I guess it's an emotional issue too.


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