# From UK to Cape Town



## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi 

I was born in Cape Town but have been living in the UK for 14 years now. My husband of over 10 years is British and a Chartered Mechanical Engineer with Project Managment qualifications & experience as well. 

Having returned from a lovely holiday in Cape Town we have decided that for many reasons we would love to return to SA between August and December this year.

I am currently renewing my SA passport which I never use as have been using my UK / EU passport and having to register my marriage in the UK by having to pay Apostille to endorse my marriage license - is that normal? Never heared of Apostille before this.

Other question is that assuming I get my SA passport renewed in my married name and that my husband gets the spousal visa what do you think our chances are of him getting a good job in the Western Cape bearing in mind the Affirmative Action laws etc? 

Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated please.
Thanks.:ranger:


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Hi
> 
> I was born in Cape Town but have been living in the UK for 14 years now. My husband of over 10 years is British and a Chartered Mechanical Engineer with Project Managment qualifications & experience as well.
> 
> ...


If your husband's qualifications are recognised in SA I cannot see any reason why AA should be a problem. 
The biggest problem is lack of jobs, even for engineers.
Where did he obtain his degree, etc. 
Have you forfeited your SA citizenship? If you have you do not need a SA passport, but then you or your husband will need a work permit to work in SA.
Hope all goes well with your plans!


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Hi
> 
> I was born in Cape Town but have been living in the UK for 14 years now. My husband of over 10 years is British and a Chartered Mechanical Engineer with Project Managment qualifications & experience as well.
> 
> ...


Hi there, regarding the Apostille, I also had to get my SA marriage certificate and my daughters SA birth certificate Apostilled. This was because I was applying for my daughter's first Swedish/EU passport. I had never done this before but the Swedish Embassy told me that it was because they had to make sure that the documents were truly genuine as it is so easy to get hold of false documents in South Africa. However, here in SA the Apostille did not cost me anything, I just went there and they did it for me there and then. Took about 10 minutes in total.

If you still have your SA citizenship then as you have been married for more than 10 years, your husband qualifies for Permanent Residency. It is better to go for this than the Spousal Permit which is temporary and which must be endorsed for work.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Johanna said:


> If your husband's qualifications are recognised in SA I cannot see any reason why AA should be a problem.
> The biggest problem is lack of jobs, even for engineers.
> Where did he obtain his degree, etc.
> Have you forfeited your SA citizenship? If you have you do not need a SA passport, but then you or your husband will need a work permit to work in SA.
> Hope all goes well with your plans!


Thanks Johanna - no I didn't forfeit my SA Citizenship - I have dual nationality and permission to travel using both UK and SA passports. My husband got first class hounours degree in Mechanical Engineering from Birmingham University then went on get his chartered status. He has also done the PRINCE 2 programme managment qualification twice (as have to be renewed every 5 years) - he is 44 so over 20 years engineering and managerial experience. I really hope that SA can use these skills and give him the chance to use his full potential. 

I am a qualified childminder, secretarial diploma from college in Cape Town and many years of insurance experience - not sure if anyone knows if professional childminders have to be registered in SA but it is quite complex in UK and I have done loads of courses, NVQ Level 3 and passed inspections / CRB clearance so hopefully I can continue in this field in Cape Town too.

Thanks Saartjie - if he gets the Permanant Resident rather than Spousal Visa will he be allowed to work with only the PR and how long would that last until he needs to reapply for something else? This forum is fab as so much info on it... thank you for setting it up (all those involved). Brenda


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Johanna - no I didn't forfeit my SA Citizenship - I have dual nationality and permission to travel using both UK and SA passports. My husband got first class hounours degree in Mechanical Engineering from Birmingham University then went on get his chartered status. He has also done the PRINCE 2 programme managment qualification twice (as have to be renewed every 5 years) - he is 44 so over 20 years engineering and managerial experience. I really hope that SA can use these skills and give him the chance to use his full potential.
> 
> I am a qualified childminder, secretarial diploma from college in Cape Town and many years of insurance experience - not sure if anyone knows if professional childminders have to be registered in SA but it is quite complex in UK and I have done loads of courses, NVQ Level 3 and passed inspections / CRB clearance so hopefully I can continue in this field in Cape Town too.
> 
> Thanks Saartjie - if he gets the Permanant Resident rather than Spousal Visa will he be allowed to work with only the PR and how long would that last until he needs to reapply for something else? This forum is fab as so much info on it... thank you for setting it up (all those involved). Brenda


Hi Brenda
I am sure his degree will be recognised... best would be to visit job websites. Engineers are in short supply.

BTW, just as a matter of interest, how did you enter SA without a valid SA passport, I too have dual citizenship, but whilst living abroad and even when we travel now, I have to enter and leave SA on my SA passport! You were fortunate that you were never asked about your dual nationality.
This website may be useful
pr engineer jobs in Cape Town | careerjet.co.za


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi Johanna

I always used my British passport when going on holiday to SA as never there for longer than 3 weeks. They never questioned me about it at all. Thanks for the link to Careerjet. We have gone onto quite a few websites but they all want us to wait until he has a permit to work in SA and/or an ID number. 

Do you perhaps know how much people pay for childcare in SA? I predominently do under 5s full day (drop off at preschool if attending) and over 5s before/after school and school holidays and would be looking after them in my own home. 

Thanks for your help.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Hi Johanna
> 
> I always used my British passport when going on holiday to SA as never there for longer than 3 weeks. They never questioned me about it at all. Thanks for the link to Careerjet. We have gone onto quite a few websites but they all want us to wait until he has a permit to work in SA and/or an ID number.
> 
> ...


I'll ask around and let you know, I have no idea!


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Johanna - no I didn't forfeit my SA Citizenship - I have dual nationality and permission to travel using both UK and SA passports. My husband got first class hounours degree in Mechanical Engineering from Birmingham University then went on get his chartered status. He has also done the PRINCE 2 programme managment qualification twice (as have to be renewed every 5 years) - he is 44 so over 20 years engineering and managerial experience. I really hope that SA can use these skills and give him the chance to use his full potential.
> 
> I am a qualified childminder, secretarial diploma from college in Cape Town and many years of insurance experience - not sure if anyone knows if professional childminders have to be registered in SA but it is quite complex in UK and I have done loads of courses, NVQ Level 3 and passed inspections / CRB clearance so hopefully I can continue in this field in Cape Town too.
> 
> Thanks Saartjie - if he gets the Permanant Resident rather than Spousal Visa will he be allowed to work with only the PR and how long would that last until he needs to reapply for something else? This forum is fab as so much info on it... thank you for setting it up (all those involved). Brenda


With PR he can live and work here for as long as he wants (as long as he is married to you), no other permits are required. A spousal permit has two draw backs, firstly if you apply for the permit whilst being outside SA, embassies usually do not grant Spousal permits and he will end up with a Relatives permit (like a lot of us did). The Relatives permit is useless as it cannot be endorsed for work. A spousal permit can be endorsed for work but the system is really stupid in that you must first get a job offer then apply for your permit to be endorsed. Sounds like a simple process but unfortunately it is not. I originally applied for my work endorsement on 31 May 2011 and I am still waiting for it to come through. My Permanent Residency is also in the process and I think this will come through before my work endorsement which is ridiculous but in the end I'd rather have PR than a Spousal Permit.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Hi Johanna
> 
> I always used my British passport when going on holiday to SA as never there for longer than 3 weeks. They never questioned me about it at all. Thanks for the link to Careerjet. We have gone onto quite a few websites but they all want us to wait until he has a permit to work in SA and/or an ID number.
> 
> ...


I spoke to my neighbour who runs a nursery school, she says that if you look after 6 or less children , you are allowed to do so from home. Her assistants all had to sign an affidavit at the police in which they stated under oath that they have never been involved with child molestation, etc.
She reckons your NVQ3 should be acknowledged here. 
In the meantime, I have asked my son, who is a solicitor, to find out what the legal requirements are, etc.

Hope all works out for you.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay - thanks so much for that Saartjie. We shal go for the PR then.

Really appreciate your help.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Okay - thanks so much for that Saartjie. We shal go for the PR then.
> 
> Really appreciate your help.


Always a pleasure. If you need any more help let me know.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Johanna said:


> I spoke to my neighbour who runs a nursery school, she says that if you look after 6 or less children , you are allowed to do so from home. Her assistants all had to sign an affidavit at the police in which they stated under oath that they have never been involved with child molestation, etc.
> She reckons your NVQ3 should be acknowledged here.
> In the meantime, I have asked my son, who is a solicitor, to find out what the legal requirements are, etc.
> 
> Hope all works out for you.


Thank you Johanna - you have been very helpful. Much appreciated. I never look after more than 3 under 5s at any one time as that is my limit on how many I feel I can give enough attention too and keep safe. My husband and I have both got UK police clearance (and another one done when I went to work at a private school last year) so I will bring those with me even if not a legal requirement as I am sure parents will feel better seeing them. I would also be happy to sign affidavits with local police and also bring written references from the parents of children I have looked after these last 8 years. Gosh so much to do - so little time!! This forum really is very good though I shall be recommending it to others that are thinking of emigrating.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks Saartjie - actually just one more question.... my 8 year old daughter has her own British passport as born in UK. If my husband has permanent residency and I have dual nationality will I need to apply for an SA passport for her or any permits etc? Thanks.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Saartjie - actually just one more question.... my 8 year old daughter has her own British passport as born in UK. If my husband has permanent residency and I have dual nationality will I need to apply for an SA passport for her or any permits etc? Thanks.


You have two options really. Either you make an application for permanent residency for your daughter as well as your husband. However, as one parent is SA citizen, she does have a right to a SA passport which means that she would not need a permit at all. If I were you I would try to get her the SA passport, it just makes things easier for the future. My daughter has dual but she was born here which means she has SA birth certificate. Not sure what the procedure is if your daughter has a UK Birth Certificate but I would assume that you can use that certificate and prove her right to SA passport by showing that you are SA citizen (your ID book or passport).


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Saartjie said:


> You have two options really. Either you make an application for permanent residency for your daughter as well as your husband. However, as one parent is SA citizen, she does have a right to a SA passport which means that she would not need a permit at all. If I were you I would try to get her the SA passport, it just makes things easier for the future. My daughter has dual but she was born here which means she has SA birth certificate. Not sure what the procedure is if your daughter has a UK Birth Certificate but I would assume that you can use that certificate and prove her right to SA passport by showing that you are SA citizen (your ID book or passport).


Thanks for that. Assuming that I won't be able to move to SA with her on her UK passport I will try to apply for her SA Passport here (UK) once I have renewed mine in my married name. I got the Apostille certified on the wedding certificate but perhaps I should get my daughter's birth certificate done too? Have some other questions about importing cars etc but will look through the threads to see if its been answered before - you must get so fed up with repeating your answers to different people. Thank goodness you are doing it though! Very helpful forum.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks for that. Assuming that I won't be able to move to SA with her on her UK passport I will try to apply for her SA Passport here (UK) once I have renewed mine in my married name. I got the Apostille certified on the wedding certificate but perhaps I should get my daughter's birth certificate done too? Have some other questions about importing cars etc but will look through the threads to see if its been answered before - you must get so fed up with repeating your answers to different people. Thank goodness you are doing it though! Very helpful forum.


This forum has helped me so much in my process of moving and settling in here in SA so I am honestly really happy to help others. If you can get all your applications done in the UK, including your daughter's passport then I would definitely recommend that you do so. Having to deal with Home Affairs here is an absolute nightmare usually. Once you have had your first experience at Home Affairs, usually including a semi derelict building filled with hundreds of people, no organised queuing system, no air conditioning and about a five hour wait then you know you want to avoid it as much as possible.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

yes I can just imagine!!!! Will keep you posted. Thanks.


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## AnnaLG (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi

We are in a similar position to you. Planning to move back to CT this year. My husband is the South african though.

It sounds like you have everything in order. I too am a registered childminder in the UK & I just wanted to comment on your childcare plans as I have lots of friends in Cape Town with little ones. 

In South Africa they call childminders DayMothers but in my experience fewer people use them. Most families do have 2 working parents and like here they use Grandparents a lot for help. However a nanny is very cheap over there and therefore if you have more than 1 child this is by far the most cost efffective type of childcare. To give you an idea a nanny would be paid around 3000R a month. 

Having said that all of my frinds with children send their kids to "school" (pre-school to us) from 3 years of age from the morning for 5 mornings a week. 

I do have a friend who used a daymother for a few years. But when visiting the setting it more like a nursery where she had converted the garage into a play room and had 2 assistants (& a lot of kids!). 

I think if you are going over there to childmind you need to have a plan of how you would market yourself as there doesn't seem to be the same knowledge and appreciation of childminders over there as there is here. Having said that I have seen adverts on gumtree & if you had a few contacts then word of mouth could do wonders. I'm sure with your training & experience you could set up something great, you may just have to think in a slightly different way to here in the UK.

I'd love to hear how you get on. I'm personally not planning to childmind when we get over there....but never say never!


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

I have to apologise, forgot to get back to this thread!
Nannies are not as cheap as you may think and not as popular as it used to be in the olden days. 
Two days ago a baby was kidnapped by it's nanny. Fortunately the child was found at a creche this morning.
Nanny still at large with kidnapped baby - Crime & Courts | IOL News | IOL.co.za


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi Johanna - thanks for your reply. What a nightmare thank goodness the baby was found safe and sound. The poor parents! 

Hi Anna - thank you for your message. Very interesting to hear from you. I agree with you that will need to do a lot of background work into childminding in SA - at the moment I am inclined to think I will be better off going back into insurance as there isn't the support there that we get here. Ofsted may be a pain in the proverbial but at least you know where you stand and it gives childminders some credibility and parents peace of mind. I don't mind the paperwork either actually so that part of the job has never been an issue for me. I think in SA I would be scared to be self employed as the pension and medical aid are a huge thing and obvious "must have" and also the incident mentioned by Johanna just highlights my fear of how on earth does one deal with the consequences should anything happen to a child you are looking after. I know I would never forgive myself so not prepared to take that risk. Our whole decision hinges on the worry that if anything happened to my own daughter I would never forgive myself and that is what is holding us back from making the final decision at the moment. Such a huge change to her life and upheaval from school and country will be highly traumatic but both my husband and I would really rather not be in UK as both very unhappy here and that isn't good for my daughter either. Sigh.... first things first have to renew my SA passport and get my husbands permanent resident permit sorted out. Will keep in touch though as be great to keep in contact especially if you do move to South Africa and do childminding. Perhaps we can start our own business and get children out of nurseries and into home care settings as hate the thought of children being indoors all day when they are under the age of 5. Question is would one be too scared to take the children out incase they get kidnapped???? Anyway good luck with your move - hope all goes well. Take care. Brenda


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Hi Johanna - thanks for your reply. What a nightmare thank goodness the baby was found safe and sound. The poor parents!
> 
> Hi Anna - thank you for your message. Very interesting to hear from you. I agree with you that will need to do a lot of background work into childminding in SA - at the moment I am inclined to think I will be better off going back into insurance as there isn't the support there that we get here. Ofsted may be a pain in the proverbial but at least you know where you stand and it gives childminders some credibility and parents peace of mind. I don't mind the paperwork either actually so that part of the job has never been an issue for me. I think in SA I would be scared to be self employed as the pension and medical aid are a huge thing and obvious "must have" and also the incident mentioned by Johanna just highlights my fear of how on earth does one deal with the consequences should anything happen to a child you are looking after. I know I would never forgive myself so not prepared to take that risk. Our whole decision hinges on the worry that if anything happened to my own daughter I would never forgive myself and that is what is holding us back from making the final decision at the moment. Such a huge change to her life and upheaval from school and country will be highly traumatic but both my husband and I would really rather not be in UK as both very unhappy here and that isn't good for my daughter either. Sigh.... first things first have to renew my SA passport and get my husbands permanent resident permit sorted out. Will keep in touch though as be great to keep in contact especially if you do move to South Africa and do childminding. Perhaps we can start our own business and get children out of nurseries and into home care settings as hate the thought of children being indoors all day when they are under the age of 5. Question is would one be too scared to take the children out incase they get kidnapped???? Anyway good luck with your move - hope all goes well. Take care. Brenda


Your business idea sounds great and I would use it for sure (although we are not in CT). My daughter has been in nursery full time since she was 6 months but we are taking her out next month as we do not think that it is good for her. We have decided to change to a Montessori school and she will only go two days a week and be home with the lady that works for us the other three days. We are hoping this is a change for the better but had there been home care available we would definitely have considered that. On a different note, yes the kidnapping was scary news but this is not an every day occurrence.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks Saartjie - yes I think childcare is a concern for most parents as there are pros and cons to each set up. I tried working in a nursery in a private school and hated it as it was far too restrictive for the children (aged 2 to 4) but parents sent their kids there because they felt safer having their child in one place. Parents of childminded children I look after enjoy having them go to parks, libraries and play centres etc but there is always a risk that I may have a car accident or that the kids get snatched so its a personal decision that each must make. Financially the nurseries are more expensive but childminders are more expensive than an au pair or nanny. I never returned to work in an office when I had my daughter as I couldn't make the decision and couldn't reliquish responsibility for her. Fortunately the childminding brings in a good income so it was financially more viable than going back to office work but I really feel for women who have no option but to go back as it is a horrible feeling for most (I have had mums of course who couldn't wait to get back to work and that's also fine as a happy mum is a good mum) - the Montessori nurseries have a good reputation and give far more freedom so I am sure your child will be very happy there. As its only 2 days a week she will probably really benefit from the social interaction too. Can I ask what sort of prices nurseries are charging in SA please? Thanks for your comments. Definitely something worth thinking about. Brenda


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## AnnaLG (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes Brenda we should definitely stay in touch. 

I believe very stongly in childminding - especially for the under 3s. Although I think a few hours a week in a nursey setting can do wonders for pre-schoolers. 

A homecare business can definitely be done in South Africa....with may be one or 2 extra Risk Assessments in place! The sort of policies & proceedures that we put in place here in the UK are the kind of things all parents want to see for peace of mind so with all your experience it could do well.....6 kids though! I would be sticking with 3 or 4 under 5s myself! The 3 I have today have run me ragged! Thank goodness for nap time.

Good Luck with you decision. It's a tough one.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Saartjie - yes I think childcare is a concern for most parents as there are pros and cons to each set up. I tried working in a nursery in a private school and hated it as it was far too restrictive for the children (aged 2 to 4) but parents sent their kids there because they felt safer having their child in one place. Parents of childminded children I look after enjoy having them go to parks, libraries and play centres etc but there is always a risk that I may have a car accident or that the kids get snatched so its a personal decision that each must make. Financially the nurseries are more expensive but childminders are more expensive than an au pair or nanny. I never returned to work in an office when I had my daughter as I couldn't make the decision and couldn't reliquish responsibility for her. Fortunately the childminding brings in a good income so it was financially more viable than going back to office work but I really feel for women who have no option but to go back as it is a horrible feeling for most (I have had mums of course who couldn't wait to get back to work and that's also fine as a happy mum is a good mum) - the Montessori nurseries have a good reputation and give far more freedom so I am sure your child will be very happy there. As its only 2 days a week she will probably really benefit from the social interaction too. Can I ask what sort of prices nurseries are charging in SA please? Thanks for your comments. Definitely something worth thinking about. Brenda


I will definitely let you know how the Montessori works out. We have visited the place a few times now and it seems really nice. The cost is around R3,500 a month (this is in Joburg) for a full time place. A normal nursery in our area charges around R2,000 so it is more expensive but I think it is worth it. Added benefit for me is that it is 5 minutes walk from my work which is lovely.


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## teabags (Feb 13, 2012)

You may need to move up country instead if pay is an issue. But quality of life will be in Cape Town


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## Jonathan Nelson (Jun 4, 2013)

Hello

Seemingly im too late but the passport wont be a problem. If you have nationality he is automatically qualified for a residence in south africa. I know the whole process as my family left for canada and they have to renew for pension purposes.

as for jobs:

PNET
Careers 24

do not use gumtree.

I know of a couple of strong recruiters especially in your husbands field. My friend `Jev places people with engineering qualifications and related.

please feel free to email me on hope I can and did help


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## Jonathan Nelson (Jun 4, 2013)

AnalG

How long have you been living in South Africa for?


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## Jonathan Nelson (Jun 4, 2013)

And you too WhenweB


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Johanna said:


> If your husband's qualifications are recognised in SA I cannot see any reason why AA should be a problem.
> The biggest problem is lack of jobs, even for engineers.


Agree 100% here.


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## Bax (Dec 28, 2013)

WhenweB said:


> Hi
> 
> I was born in Cape Town but have been living in the UK for 14 years now. My husband of over 10 years is British and a Chartered Mechanical Engineer with Project Managment qualifications & experience as well.
> 
> ...


The biggest issue I would imagine is that salaries are much lower than in the UK , then again the cost of living is lower. There are always jobs for well qualified people in my view. Im sure others would disagree.

Dave


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Of course I'm a black female - so finding work is no problem here but my general perception is there's always workfor technically skilled people - very little for non-skilled


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

@MissGlobal: I'm confused, as a foreigner and also not being in SA before 1994 (to qualify as HDI) your BEE status is less than that of a white male - what do you mean when you say you do you have no problem finding work as a black female?


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Actually no - I lived in SA from 1991 to 1997 ( first time ) but when I lived in SA was not a factor. I'm a us-born dual citizen. As a black female owned company - I got a level 3 BEE status where 1 is the highest. I could have had higher but my husband owns less than 50 percent - so I got dinged.

And when we did the certification - they didn't ask when we lived in SA


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Interesting, now it makes sense.

Note: Technically, those outside SA before 1994 who returned later are not classified as Historically Disadvantaged Individuals).


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Interesting - how do they validate that? Plus so many folks were exiled ....


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Simple - look at their passports and stamps.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm not sure that would take because plenty of folk traveled on other passports ( I only got my SA passport in 2000 something). I traveled on my USA one into SA with a letter from home affairs.

But that being said - there's no review of passports in the BEE process. Or at least not when we did it earlier this year. And... my SA ID shows it was issued when I was like maybe 16/17 - and that I'm a SA citizen born in the USA......


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