# Child benefit/tax credits



## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

I feel like a total scrounger asking this, but I promise I am not, I just need to know what my "rescue" plan might be.

I am a single parent hoping to relocate possibly to Spain. I won't be relying on benefits or anything dreadful like that as I have income from properties in the UK, but my mind is playing "what if?". What if I was unlucky to find myself with no tenants at some point, what fall back is available in Spain.

I will be grateful for any advice.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Mcmicrogal said:


> ...what fall back is available in Spain.


None.

Spain is not like the UK in this sense.

In any case, if you were to go to live there for more than 6 months in any year, you automatically become a tax resident and have to prove a certain level of income and health insurance if you're not receiving a UK pension. As well as being liable to paying Spanish taxes on your worldwide income - without any potential welfare benefit entitlements.

Think very carefully about this and do all your research before hand.

Living in Spain is not quite such an attractive prospect any more.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

Thank you. I am very much at the research stage just now and trying to work out what to do for the best. I dream of living abroad but I am not going to put my children through the hell of having to almost swim home because we run out of money.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Mcmicrogal said:


> Thank you. I am very much at the research stage just now and trying to work out what to do for the best. I dream of living abroad but I am not going to put my children through the hell of having to almost swim home because we run out of money.


Well ... I guess the answer is dont do it then.
If you havent got a guaranteed reliable regular income then its just not worth it for you, or your kids


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Mcmicrogal said:


> Thank you. I am very much at the research stage just now and trying to work out what to do for the best. I dream of living abroad but I am not going to put my children through the hell of having to almost swim home because we run out of money.


Well, it's still doable but becoming ever more difficult as Spain toughens up its tax system and you need to consider the cost of living there too as it's no longer the cheap place it once was. In my opinion, on balance, it's almost parity now with the UK.

My advice is as I've already said - do your research and understand fully what you're getting yourself into. 

Rents are still quite reasonable (don't even think of buying) at the moment and if you were to rent, you could still escape back to the UK if disaster did strike without too much problem.

But research the tax situation because if you live there longer than 6 months in any year you'll be liable for Spanish taxes on your worldwide income.

As a very, very rough estimate reckon on about 15-20% combined taxation over your UK allowances and about €4-500 a month food, bills etc + rent.

You also need to consider very carefully schooling for your children etc and how switching them in and out of different schools might affect them.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

Thank you for your advice. I think Spain is rapidly disappearing off my potentials list. It is, as you rightly say, not a step to be taken lightly.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sadly, I dont think anywhere in Europe - or anywhere else offers the same level of benefits as the UK - healthcare could also be an issue if you stay in Spain without paying into their system - your UK contributions qwill only carry you for a year or so and then you'll need to pay in. Most countries will only pay out anything if you've paid in by working and making contributions. Maybe you could rent your properties out for a year or so while you stay in the UK so that you can save some money??? 

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

For all its problems, I think people sometimes forget what there is in the UK. Things change so quickly. Back when we moved here all seemed perfectly sensible, but if I was thinking of moving to Spain now ... well, I wouldnt


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The only people who should even think about emigrating to Spain now are retired people with a good, secure income, those with 'portable' businesses or those with contracted jobs with good incomes - and even those aren't that secure these days.
Some people see posts like this as 'negative'. They are usually the same people whotalk about 'living the dream'.
Disregarding the fact that people who view moving to Spain as 'living the dream' need to get out a bit more - as our Jo always points out, you do the same here as in the UK but if you have the time to enjoy it, a bit more sun for some months of the year, the hard facts are that Spain is a harsh country for those who find themselves in difficulty.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

I wouldn't call the replies I have received as negative, I would class them as honest, and tough love  Your unflinching honesty is most gratefully received as I have no intention of becoming "the idiot Brit" who hasn't thought things through. Your responses may result in my family "living" in Spain for 3 months at a time, but heck, 3 months is much better than not at all.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Mcmicrogal said:


> Your responses may result in my family "living" in Spain for 3 months at a time, but heck, 3 months is much better than not at all.



Which is actually a sensible alternative, if you can pull it off


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Mcmicrogal said:


> I wouldn't call the replies I have received as negative, I would class them as honest, and tough love  Your unflinching honesty is most gratefully received as I have no intention of becoming "the idiot Brit" who hasn't thought things through. Your responses may result in my family "living" in Spain for 3 months at a time, but heck, 3 months is much better than not at all.


To which I can only reply that you show a lot more realism and common-sense than many would-be immigrants to Spain.

For that reason alone I'm sure you won't make rash decisions and that if you do decide to give Spain a try you will have an enjoyable time, however short.

One note of caution, if you don't mind, though: when we left the UK over seven years ago, we moved to Prague, a city I'd known and visited very regularly for over three decades. I had close friends there, could speak Czech -badly. I confidently expected to end my days there.
Yet after three years we were glad to move to Spain. Living somewhere is no way like visiting, however frequently and for whatever period of time. That's a fact that should be taken into consideration.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Mcmicrogal said:


> Your responses may result in my family "living" in Spain for 3 months at a time, but heck, 3 months is much better than not at all.


Which is probably one of the most sensible options. 

I've been giving a lot of thought to only spending less than 6 months at a time in Spain because that way you can slip through the nets they've cast.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

Spending under 6 months at a time will help body swerve the whole car import minefield as well I am guessing


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mcmicrogal said:


> Spending under 6 months at a time will help body swerve the whole car import minefield as well I am guessing


 possibly, but we tried/are trying to do the back and forth thing and it actually is very costly, time consuming and unsettling. We have a place in Spain and the idea was that we'd flit back and forth - huh! We just dont get the time, the flights can be extortionate (We wanted to go at easter, but .... too expensive) and its so unsettling - even silly things like some of my favourite clothes are over in Spain and I want them lol. My kids go to school and college in the UK, so dont get much time to come to Spain - and dont want to when they do have the time.......meanwhile we're forking out for rent on a place that we're not living in

Jo xxx


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

I could see how infuriating that would be. Of course I should own up and open another can of worms... we home educate :O

It is legal in Catalonia these days but I know Franco had banned it and it is still not accepted most places. This means I am not tied to school holidays etc but on the other hand I might find myself being pursued by the authorities if anyone "tells on me".


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mcmicrogal said:


> I could see how infuriating that would be. Of course I should own up and open another can of worms... we home educate :O
> 
> It is legal in Catalonia these days but I know Franco had banned it and it is still not accepted most places. This means I am not tied to school holidays etc but on the other hand I might find myself being pursued by the authorities if anyone "tells on me".


Home ed isnt legal in most parts of Spain, but its done. Evenso, the travelling back and forth is costly, time consuming and as your child/children get older, they may, like mine have different ideas of where they want to be and when. But, yes, you'll be better off "flitting" within 90 days, as you'll still be able to claim the benefits from the UK - I mean things like healthcare, child allowance etc. than actually moving to spain permanently 

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mcmicrogal said:


> I could see how infuriating that would be. Of course I should own up and open another can of worms... we home educate :O
> 
> It is legal in Catalonia these days but I know Franco had banned it and it is still not accepted most places. This means I am not tied to school holidays etc but on the other hand I might find myself being pursued by the authorities if anyone "tells on me".


enough people take their kids out of school during term time in the UK, that if you're only here for the 90 days or less at a time, I can't see why there would be an issue - or even noticed............

after all it's legal in the UK - & that's where you'd be resident


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> enough people take their kids out of school during term time in the UK, that if you're only here for the 90 days or less at a time, I can't see why there would be an issue - or even noticed............
> 
> after all it's legal in the UK - & that's where you'd be resident


Ah, a very good point and something I have most definitely taken on board. The dream is not dead in the water yet then! :clap2:


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My only issue with home schooling is the lack of social interaction so that is something that must be taken into consideration if home schooling is to be successful...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> My only issue with home schooling is the lack of social interaction so that is something that must be taken into consideration if home schooling is to be successful...


they are homeschooling IN THE UK.......... where there is a lot of support & homeschool clubs, so from what I understand that isn't as much of an issue as it would be here, where it is 'underground'



in any case - that's not the discussion on this thread is it ?


I think there's a thread in La Tasca especially dedicated to the discussion & swapping of opinions as to the effectiveness or otherwise of different kinds of education............


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

How old are your children? Will they need private education?

There have been massive cuts in UK benefits too so ex pats in Spain can no longer go home and expect a rented home or much in the way of benefits...they are just not there to give.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

Oh dear, the old socialisation chestnut.

With all respect to you, this is a common misconception. Home educated children are among the most socialised children around. They know how to interact with a wide variety of people across all age groups rather than 30 other children who all have birthdays within a year of each other. I won't even get into the Lord of the Flies bullying culture that schooled children pick up.

We do not lock our children in cupboards and keep them far from the gaze of society, rather we are nearly always "out there" learning and doing among other people. One of the driving forces behind me wishing to spend time overseas is to achieve language immersion for my children to learn a language red in tooth and claw as it were, rather than from behind a desk, picking up pronunciation from non-native speakers for a couple of excruciating hours a week.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

bob_bob said:


> How old are your children? Will they need private education?
> 
> There have been massive cuts in UK benefits too so ex pats in Spain can no longer go home and expect a rented home or much in the way of benefits...they are just not there to give.


I am in the fortunate position of owning 2 UK properties outright, so if it did go horribly wrong I will have a secure roof over my head. I know that in theory I could sell said properties and have money to live on but I prefer the security their existence offers rather than having the money to spend. Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Mcmicrogal said:


> I am in the fortunate position of owning 2 UK properties outright, so if it did go horribly wrong I will have a secure roof over my head. I know that in theory I could sell said properties and have money to live on but I prefer the security their existence offers rather than having the money to spend. Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else.


Depends on the value of the properties. You may be better off keeping and renting them as interest on investments is so low and likely to be so for a long time yet, I fear.

If you are planning to pick up work in Spain I have to say that there's not much of that about and you have to be 100% 'legal' to work here.
But I'm guessing you know that already.

As for home schooling...it's legal in the UK so it's a matter of parental choice, plain and simple. The only thing that concerns me is that many home schoolers simply aren't qualified to educate anyone. Now that obviously doesn't apply to you but we've had home schoolers posting who are, tbh, barely literate so Lawd knows how they can teach their children.. Also, how do you ensure that your child is being adequately taught over a wide range of subjects and to the level required? How ddo you go about entering a home schooled child for external examinations? And what about the physical equipment needed for sports, some maths and scientific studies?
I am genuinely interested to learn about this as I am instinctively against the idea but will admit that unless you know about something your opinion isn't going to be a sound one! There was another home schooler posting a few weeks back but she didn't want to get drawn into discussion, as is her right.
Just one point, though...bullying is not endemic to schools in the UK. Of course there are aggressive pupils just as there are aggressive people in real life, unfortunately, and you have to learn how to deal with them. I most certainly did not tolerate any kind of bullying in my school.
You can also have a problem of bullying parents too, parents who won't allow their child his/her own development or who are uber-strict disciplinarians. Sometimes school is a place of refuge for such children.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Mcmicrogal said:


> Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else.


Yes it makes perfect sense.

In fact, that's probably the best place to keep your money at the moment and generate income from it via rent, you'll easily beat anything you'd get by putting it in the bank.

In fact, the way things are at the moment, you'd lose money putting it in the bank.

Don't sell them if you don't have to, generate an income from them.


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## Mcmicrogal (Feb 12, 2013)

I am genuinely interested to learn about this as I am instinctively against the idea but will admit that unless you know about something your opinion isn't going to be a sound one! There was another home schooler posting a few weeks back but she didn't want to get drawn into discussion, as is her right.[/QUOTE]

A lot of home educators (we are educators, we generally don't do "school" at home) do not wish to be dragged into a discussion about their choices simply because people can be downright nasty and aggressive about it (not saying for one second that you would be). In law it is stated that education is the responsibility of the parent but the majority of parents hand over that responsibility to the state and nobody makes them explain themselves for doing so. Does that shed some light on why some people might not really want to get into a discussion?

I am very happy to answer questions but I suspect we may fall foul of the moderators if we pull this thread off topic and do it here


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My point about home schooling was meant to refer to the situation here in Spain rather than UK where I am aware of home school clubs and these can and are very successful. There is simply nothing like that in Spain (that I am aware of) and one of the problems about integrating with Spanish families is overcome to some extent by the kids integrating at school (or not in the case of JoJo's daughter). Our boy will be tri-lingual as the school he will attend will teach him Spanish and German and we, of course, will teach him English (and maths and science and geography and English Lit.) 

Your plan to not sell your properties in UK is a very sound one since having moved here it may not turn out to be exactly what you thought it would be; then again like us you might love it!!


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