# Packing it in to go to Italy



## emax

Paid for kids college..now it is our turn. My husband and I are in our early 50's and are looking into just picking up and moving for 6 mos...maybe a year...maybe forever. We are adventurous and have travelled quite a bit. We want the experience of a new culture. We will be giving up the security of our paychecks and family at least for the short term, Has anyone else done this?


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## stefanaccio

Not quite as adventuresome as you. My plan to retire in a couple of years, that way will get a pension. Then spend maybe 1/2 time USA; 1/2 time Italia. Not easy to earn money in Italy from what I have seen


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## Bevdeforges

Hi and welcome to the forum!

The exact process of moving overseas depends quite a bit on how you intend to do things. I chucked it all and moved overseas at the age of 40 or so, and so I first had to find a job so that I'd have an employer to handle all that visa stuff. If you're planning on working, you'll more or less have to go that route, too.

To do some sort of "early retirement" or "extended sabbatical" you need to consult the website of your local Italian Consulate to see what the procedure is for getting a visa without work privileges. It will help if you have family ties to Italy and if you speak the language reasonably well.
Cheers,
Bev


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## emax

Great info. We really are at the begining stages of what all this will take...I have been doing a lot of reading on line too. As with anyuthing, there is a lot more "process" than I realized, but it is all good. There is also a slight possibility of a job transfer which would make things a lot easier. Thanks


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## emax

We will not be forfieting a pension...those days are gone at most US companies. With a little luck we may get a job transfer...but doubtful. Maybe we can get work at the Villa Casale once we find the "handsome English speaking manager"!


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## maryann

Hi, there, my husband and I live in New York State, U.S.A., and my heritage is Italian. I speak it decently (dialect), and my passion is to live in Italy. We will be retiring; we bought a new 2 bedroom home in Calabria this past July after a careful process of searching and deciding. We are very excited. We hope to sell our home here and be there by maybe October, hopefully!
It would be great to put together a nice group and once in a while speak English, right? If anyone knows how to ship a car there cheaply, please let me know. 
Thanks.
MaryAnn


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## NickZ

maryann said:


> If anyone knows how to ship a car there cheaply, please let me know.
> Thanks.
> MaryAnn


Unless it's a classic car honestly don't bring your car.

Think of it this way gasoline is currently around 1.3 a litre. So over $7 US an US gallon. The Prius is considered a high mileage car in the US but around here it's just average. If you factor in the cost of shipping. Getting the car legal. The higher cost for repairs.


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## ZsaZSa

*It's time*



emax said:


> Paid for kids college..now it is our turn. My husband and I are in our early 50's and are looking into just picking up and moving for 6 mos...maybe a year...maybe forever. We are adventurous and have travelled quite a bit. We want the experience of a new culture. We will be giving up the security of our paychecks and family at least for the short term, Has anyone else done this?


My husband and I are positioning ourselves to do just the same; sellling the house and wrapping up our work. It seems as though the "kids" got the best of us....and now it's time to rekindle "US". Please keep in touch how your plans are playing out. Best of luck to you both!!!


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## vintage

emax said:


> Paid for kids college..now it is our turn. My husband and I are in our early 50's and are looking into just picking up and moving for 6 mos...maybe a year...maybe forever. We are adventurous and have travelled quite a bit. We want the experience of a new culture. We will be giving up the security of our paychecks and family at least for the short term, Has anyone else done this?


Ciao a tutti,
We are doing the same, and have already purchased a house in capestrano (abruzzo region). We would like to live there permanently in less than 2 years. If anyone has any info on visas and residency in italy that they would share that would be great. Things to consider are, should we remain US citizens, or should we be dual citizens. I have heard that to remain US citizens you have to return to the US for a short time every couple of years. I will not be needing to work there, but I might do some renovation work just to keep busy. We are in the process now of getting things together here (real estate, money) to position ourselves to be self sufficient in italy. Again any advice would be appreciated. 
Bill


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## Bevdeforges

Can't tell you much about the Italian visa process, but I can tell you that there is no need to return to the US periodically in order to maintain your US citizenship when living abroad. You are supposed to continue to file tax returns, declaring your worldwide income - but failure to do so won't affect your citizenship.

The question of taking or not taking Italian citizenship is one for you to decide after you have lived there long enough to be eligible for naturalization. It usually takes about 5 years or so of residence. In practical terms, about the only big advantage (besides that of having an EU nationality) is that of being able to vote where you live.

Giving up your US citizenship is actually quite difficult these days. And doing so can subject you to various penalties if they suspect you're renouncing your nationality "for tax reasons."
Cheers,
Bev


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## vintage

Bevdeforges said:


> Can't tell you much about the Italian visa process, but I can tell you that there is no need to return to the US periodically in order to maintain your US citizenship when living abroad. You are supposed to continue to file tax returns, declaring your worldwide income - but failure to do so won't affect your citizenship.
> 
> The question of taking or not taking Italian citizenship is one for you to decide after you have lived there long enough to be eligible for naturalization. It usually takes about 5 years or so of residence. In practical terms, about the only big advantage (besides that of having an EU nationality) is that of being able to vote where you live.
> 
> Giving up your US citizenship is actually quite difficult these days. And doing so can subject you to various penalties if they suspect you're renouncing your nationality "for tax reasons."
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thanks Bev,

Remaining a US citizen is the way to go, I have read that we may have to pay italian taxes also but would get credit on US taxes for that, still researching that one though. 
From what I see the first step is to get a visa from the italian consulate showing proof of income to be self sufficient, and then when in italy applying for a permit to stay and then a certificate of residency. 
I guess there would really be no reason that we would need to become italian citizens.
Bill


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## bunty16

vintage said:


> Ciao a tutti, We are doing the same, and have already purchased a house in capestrano (abruzzo region). We would like to live there permanently in less than 2 years. If anyone has any info on visas and residency in italy that they would share that would be great. Things to consider are, should we remain US citizens, or should we be dual citizens. I have heard that to remain US citizens you have to return to the US for a short time every couple of years. I will not be needing to work there, but I might do some renovation work just to keep busy. We are in the process now of getting things together here (real estate, money) to position ourselves to be self sufficient in italy. Again any advice would be appreciated. Bill


 sorry Bill, cant advise on that one


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## Barry

Hi Bill, 

Where did they move the Highlander Bar to after the earthquake? We were in Capestrano in October and couldn't find it. You'll have to visit across the valley in Ofena, lots of expats have bought there.

Barry


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## vintage

Barry said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Where did they move the Highlander Bar to after the earthquake? We were in Capestrano in October and couldn't find it. You'll have to visit across the valley in Ofena, lots of expats have bought there.
> 
> Barry


Hi Barry,
I was also in capestrano at the end of October. I don't know of any place called the Highlander bar, there is a pub that serves Guinness on tap. The owners name is Fernando and he is originally from capestrano then moved to Boston as a child only to come back to capestrano to live now. The place is new and I think he relocated it from down the street, maybe that was the place. It is in the village center with a green sign hanging out front. There is also a small place across the center that serves caffe, pannini, and sells a few other things. The restaurant in the center, I was told had earthquake damage, so they are working on getting that back together, I heard the first floor fell to the ground. 
I have been to ofena and it is nice, It can almost be seen from my terrace just a small hill across my street that blocks the view, but I can see the town above it.
Do you visit capestrano often, do you have a house in the area?
Bill


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## Barry

The Highlander Bar use to be beside the pharmacy. Beer and a panini then across the piazza for a gelato!
We have a house in Carrufo. Part of Villa Santa Lucia just above Ofena but no bar or store so we have to go to Ofena, Capestrano or up to Castel Del Monte for liquid refreshment or a meal.
Check out the "Moving to Ofena" thread for lots of expats in the valley including one, Mia Solas, with a house in Capestrano.

Barry


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## Jim2551

Be aware that getting a residenza elettiva visa for Italy from the US is NOT easy -- I just went through the process -- consulate demanded a minimum of 48,000 eu in guaranteed annual income plus deeds to house or long-term lease in Italy before even considering our application (family of 2). Not sure, but I think our 1 year Schengen visa must be renewed (and reviewed) annually until we apply for Italian citizenship.


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## vintage

Jim2551 said:


> Be aware that getting a residenza elettiva visa for Italy from the US is NOT easy -- I just went through the process -- consulate demanded a minimum of 48,000 eu in guaranteed annual income plus deeds to house or long-term lease in Italy before even considering our application (family of 2). Not sure, but I think our 1 year Schengen visa must be renewed (and reviewed) annually until we apply for Italian citizenship.


Hi Jim
48,000eu, that's crazy, who needs that much a year to live a simple life in italy, my italy house has no mortgage. I don't even spend the equivalent of that in US dollars here, and I have a mortgage, 3 vehicles, a small business, 2 rental properties, and all the insurance and everything else to maintain this crazy american lifestyle! Thanks for the info Jim, has anyone else found this to be the case?
 Bill


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## vintage

Ok, this is what I have found on the internet concerning income requirements to enter italy with a visa. According to the info in these tables for 2 people to get a 1 year visa it would require 12676.78 euros proof of funds to stay for the year, if I am doing the math right, which I think I am. Also for a residency visa(retirement without working) you need to show proof of residency (owning a house in italy or a long term lease), also you may need to show proof that you can leave at the end of the visa (possible prepaid airline ticket). I don't know how long you can apply for a visa using this info, but even if you had to reapply every year it is not a big deal. 
Again anyone who has done this and can confirm this, it would be appreciated.


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## Jim2551

We saw the same information on the Italian interior ministry website -- however, rather than argue with the Italian consulate in NYC about income limits, we gave them what they asked for -- there is no RIGHT to a visa, even if you are a property owner! And, we couldn't find any appeals process in case of a denial, so . . . rather than get a denial and have to start the process again, we simply complied. BTW I heartily agree that we won't come close to spending that amount, owning houses without mortgage, and living a simple life, but dealing with bureaucracies sometimes it's simpler to bend rather than break. Bottom line, we have gone through the process, and we do have our visas for residenza elettiva.


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## NickZ

The amount has nothing to do with the min amount to live on. 

It's supposed to be high enough you will not become a drain on Italy in any way. High enough you are a positive for the country. High enough you will not work.

The other thing is it'll likely depend on the type of income. A government pension is fairly safe. If you're income comes from a company pension it's far less safe. So depending on the type of income it'll be discounted. 

The numbers per day are usually for short term tourist visas. Some countries need a visa for even short visits.


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## vintage

NickZ said:


> The amount has nothing to do with the min amount to live on.
> 
> It's supposed to be high enough you will not become a drain on Italy in any way. High enough you are a positive for the country. High enough you will not work.
> 
> The other thing is it'll likely depend on the type of income. A government pension is fairly safe. If you're income comes from a company pension it's far less safe. So depending on the type of income it'll be discounted.
> 
> The numbers per day are usually for short term tourist visas. Some countries need a visa for even short visits.


OK, I am starting to understand this, but still have a few questions. If I get a elective residence visa approved here in the US, how long is it good for and when it expires can you renew it in italy or do you have to come back to the US. 
I have spent endless hours on the internet searching about this and it seems it is top-secret info. I know there are americans in italy who have done this but no one seems to post any details about it in any forum I have seen. As far as the income requirements the info is very vague, even the consulate site does not give any real info. Also if you did not get approved for an elective residence visa is there any other way to spend over 90 days in italy? 
Thanks,
Bill


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## Bevdeforges

OK, just to clarify - a visa is a document that allows you to enter the country. Once there, you're expected to do whatever it is you said you were going to do and then go home again by the time you said you were going to go home. The big exception is if you are going for residence in the country.

If you're going for residence (which I expect is what an elective residence visa is all about), once you enter the country you then need to register your presence to get some form of residence permit. It's the residence permit you need to renew at regular intervals, not the visa. And at each of the renewals, they'll ask you to present proof that you still meet the requirements of the original visa you were granted (i.e. income, housing, insurance, whatever else).
Cheers,
Bev


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## ZsaZSa

Bevdeforges said:


> OK, just to clarify - a visa is a document that allows you to enter the country. Once there, you're expected to do whatever it is you said you were going to do and then go home again by the time you said you were going to go home. The big exception is if you are going for residence in the country.
> 
> If you're going for residence (which I expect is what an elective residence visa is all about), once you enter the country you then need to register your presence to get some form of residence permit. It's the residence permit you need to renew at regular intervals, not the visa. And at each of the renewals, they'll ask you to present proof that you still meet the requirements of the original visa you were granted (i.e. income, housing, insurance, whatever else).
> Cheers,
> Bev


There is another forum with the heading of "retired american" that may be helpful to you as well.


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## vintage

Bevdeforges said:


> OK, just to clarify - a visa is a document that allows you to enter the country. Once there, you're expected to do whatever it is you said you were going to do and then go home again by the time you said you were going to go home. The big exception is if you are going for residence in the country.
> 
> If you're going for residence (which I expect is what an elective residence visa is all about), once you enter the country you then need to register your presence to get some form of residence permit. It's the residence permit you need to renew at regular intervals, not the visa. And at each of the renewals, they'll ask you to present proof that you still meet the requirements of the original visa you were granted (i.e. income, housing, insurance, whatever else).
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thanks Bev,

So the only think that is unpredictable with this whole process is the chance of visa approval based on the savings and income you would show, and not having an answer until less than 90 days till departure. How have other people handled this situation? If you totally prepare yourself to move to italy, selling your house, packing, getting everything else in order, without knowing for sure you will get the visa approved. If you get approved your OK, if you don't then what? Am I making this more difficult than it is? I just would prefer to be prepared.
Bill


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## Bevdeforges

Can't speak for Italy, but for a long time there was a notice on the French consulate sites in the US saying that there is no guarantee that you'll be granted a visa just because you fulfill all the requirements and for that reason, you shouldn't buy any non-refundable tickets until AFTER you have your visa in hand.

(Also, however, in typical French style, several categories of visa require you to show your tickets to verify your departure dates... you get used to this after a while.)

But in any event, I wouldn't make any irrevocable plans (i.e. selling the house, for instance) until after the visa is granted. You can always put the house on the market and in the counter-offer, put a contingency that the whole deal is dependent on your getting the visa.
Cheers,
Bev


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## vintage

Bevdeforges said:


> Can't speak for Italy, but for a long time there was a notice on the French consulate sites in the US saying that there is no guarantee that you'll be granted a visa just because you fulfill all the requirements and for that reason, you shouldn't buy any non-refundable tickets until AFTER you have your visa in hand.
> 
> (Also, however, in typical French style, several categories of visa require you to show your tickets to verify your departure dates... you get used to this after a while.)
> 
> But in any event, I wouldn't make any irrevocable plans (i.e. selling the house, for instance) until after the visa is granted. You can always put the house on the market and in the counter-offer, put a contingency that the whole deal is dependent on your getting the visa.
> Cheers,
> Bev


It's the same for italy with the ticket, I heard you can print a confirmation for a ticket to be payed for within 24 hours and use that. I not worried about that, I would just go anyway and stay for 90 days.
I am pretty confident I would get approved on the income requirements, and should have no problem with the rest of the documents. Now I just need to spend the next year getting everything ready. 
Bill


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## Bevdeforges

vintage said:


> I am pretty confident I would get approved on the income requirements, and should have no problem with the rest of the documents. Now I just need to spend the next year getting everything ready.
> Bill


Be really, really careful with statements like that. You can be refused a visa for any reason or for no reason at all. Unfortunately, most visa related laws are written in terms of "A visa can be denied for .... [whatever reason]" not "If A, B, C and D, then you get a visa."

It's usually best if you have some connection with Italy - frequent visits, friends, family, know the language, etc, etc. But nothing is certain and officialdom can be remarkably fickle.
Cheers,
Bev


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## vintage

Bevdeforges said:


> Be really, really careful with statements like that. You can be refused a visa for any reason or for no reason at all. Unfortunately, most visa related laws are written in terms of "A visa can be denied for .... [whatever reason]" not "If A, B, C and D, then you get a visa."
> 
> It's usually best if you have some connection with Italy - frequent visits, friends, family, know the language, etc, etc. But nothing is certain and officialdom can be remarkably fickle.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Bev,
I didn't want to sound like that, its just that when I go to apply I will have done everything the best I could, and hope that is adequate. Thanks for your responses, at least now I have enough info to prepare for this, and I can get back to enjoying the process. 
Also I do have a house in Italy, some friends and I am studying Italian.
Thanks again, Bill


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## walklans

*US expats renting in Italy?*

I would really appreciate hearing from any US expats who are in Italy on an extended stay visa (with no Italian family ties) and are RENTING a house or apartment. How did you find a place that would let you say that is your "permanent" residence so you could qualify for a visa? MY husband and I want to retire to Italy for a few years at least but don't want to buy unless we decide to stay forever. Thanks for any help! I'm getting discouraged after months of research.

Sherry


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## vintage

*Still looking for responses from american expats*

Hi everyone, I would still appreciate some responses to the visa income requirements from American expats who are living in Italy and have been through all of this. I have received responses from 7 of the 10 US consulates that I have sent emails to. There responses were of no help, just basically repeating what I asked, with the exception of one stating that you need to show over $100,000 US dollars in income per year. I know that can't be right, I think they are just trying to scare people off. The most helpful response said to make an appointment with the consulate to discuss the requirements for a visa. 
Bill


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## lmp1027

*Do It We are in our 40's with two kids aged 9 & 7.*

We live a very spoiled life in Canada. My husband has his Italian passport (thanks to his Dad, who is Italian) and we are leaving in June for a one year adventure.

My one and only question to you is, why wouldn't you do it? Everything will be exactly the same when you go home in six months.




emax said:


> Paid for kids college..now it is our turn. My husband and I are in our early 50's and are looking into just picking up and moving for 6 mos...maybe a year...maybe forever. We are adventurous and have travelled quite a bit. We want the experience of a new culture. We will be giving up the security of our paychecks and family at least for the short term, Has anyone else done this?


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## bunty16

*visa*

hi, i know i am from uk, but have you asked ha.i? They may /should have some knowledge of this,my neighbour is an american but is based in rome, i have not met her yet, but if ok with you will ask when i get to see her.


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## Bevdeforges

vintage said:


> Hi everyone, I would still appreciate some responses to the visa income requirements from American expats who are living in Italy and have been through all of this. I have received responses from 7 of the 10 US consulates that I have sent emails to. There responses were of no help, just basically repeating what I asked, with the exception of one stating that you need to show over $100,000 US dollars in income per year. I know that can't be right, I think they are just trying to scare people off. The most helpful response said to make an appointment with the consulate to discuss the requirements for a visa.
> Bill


To be honest, the income "requirement" is really nothing but a guideline. They can easily reject you for a long-stay visa with > $100,000 in income, or accept your visa application with less than whatever they've told you is the "minimum." It really depends on your overall situation and the likelihood (in their estimation) that you're looking to live in Italy "for the benefits" or "to take advantage of the system" or for some other nefarious reason. The source of that income is also taken into account.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Joppa

Bevdeforges said:


> To be honest, the income "requirement" is really nothing but a guideline. They can easily reject you for a long-stay visa with > $100,000 in income, or accept your visa application with less than whatever they've told you is the "minimum." It really depends on your overall situation and the likelihood (in their estimation) that you're looking to live in Italy "for the benefits" or "to take advantage of the system" or for some other nefarious reason. The source of that income is also taken into account.
> Cheers,
> Bev


What Bev is trying to say I concur wholeheartedly. Right across EU, there is big political pressure on governments to reduce the number of non-EU people immigrating to their country. While they cannot as a rule reject EU migrants, who after all have legal rights to live, work and retire just about anywhere they choose, with non-EU nationals (and that includes those from First World like US, Canada, Australia, Japan etc), issue of a long-stay visa is always discretionary and they can turn down an application without having to give a reason (unless they can avail themselves of EU rules relating to spouse and family member of EU citizens). The process is quite one-sided - they will issue a visa if it's in their national interest to do so. An entrepreneur wanting to invest millions of dollars in Italy will be received with open arms, as will oil barons and Bill Gates wanting to live in retirement and spending part of their enormous wealth there. They feel no obligation to help those who have a good but modest retirement income, who want to live simply and frugally and making only a modest contribution to local economy (but presumably enjoying benefits of public services there). Italy have to accept millions of such people from EU , and they don't want to absorb any more if they don't have to. 
Of course all this is bad news for Americans and others wanting to live their Italian dream, but it's not the job of the Italian government, and their agents the Italian consulates abroad, to make things easy for them. Hence the apparent lack of information and positive news. If it's any consolation, it would be just as difficult for Italians and other EU nationals wanting to do the same in the US, Canada etc. As Bev says, you can increase your chances (not certainty) by demonstrating long and close relation to Italy through family ties, previous long residence (not just holiday visits) and knowledge of language and culture. But at the end of the day, the consulates have complete discretion to accept or reject your visa application, and though there may be an appeal procedure, they are still the judge and jury, as nobody else can issue a visa.


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## vintage

Thanks everyone for the responses, this is the kind of info I was looking for. If I can't get a elective residence visa than I will just purchase a small house in the states, somewhere nice like New England, and spend half my time there and the other half in Italy. Maybe after doing that awhile my chances of approval on a visa will increase. I will be in Italy at the end of March so I will use some of that time to research this more there.

Keep on posting. :happy:
Bill


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## walklans

*Splitting time between Italy and US*



vintage said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses, this is the kind of info I was looking for. If I can't get a elective residence visa than I will just purchase a small house in the states, somewhere nice like New England, and spend half my time there and the other half in Italy. Maybe after doing that awhile my chances of approval on a visa will increase. I will be in Italy at the end of March so I will use some of that time to research this more there.
> 
> Keep on posting. :happy:
> Bill


With no elective residence visa, you can stay only 90 days out of 180 in the EU (not just Italy), so not sure how half time in Italy and half time in EU is feasible unless you want to fly back and forth every three months. 

Sherry


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## vintage

walklans said:


> With no elective residence visa, you can stay only 90 days out of 180 in the EU (not just Italy), so not sure how half time in Italy and half time in EU is feasible unless you want to fly back and forth every three months.
> 
> Sherry


That's the plan
Bill


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## vintage

walklans said:


> With no elective residence visa, you can stay only 90 days out of 180 in the EU (not just Italy), so not sure how half time in Italy and half time in EU is feasible unless you want to fly back and forth every three months.
> 
> Sherry


Hi Sherry,

If this is my only option to be in Italy, than that's what I will do, we have already made this a Plan B. This would just take more time because of the increase in living expenses, (another house, car, more travel). I still haven't given up on the visa, just thinking ahead.
Bill


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## walklans

vintage said:


> Hi Sherry,
> 
> If this is my only option to be in Italy, than that's what I will do, we have already made this a Plan B. This would just take more time because of the increase in living expenses, (another house, car, more travel). I still haven't given up on the visa, just thinking ahead.
> Bill



Hi, Bill,

Sounds good (for a Plan B). Do you know of anyone who has gotten a rental in Italy that they've been able to use as their permanent address in applying for a visa? My husband and I desperately want to move to Italy but don't want to buy a house, at least not for awhile. Thanks.

Sherry


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## vintage

walklans said:


> Hi, Bill,
> 
> Sounds good (for a Plan B). Do you know of anyone who has gotten a rental in Italy that they've been able to use as their permanent address in applying for a visa? My husband and I desperately want to move to Italy but don't want to buy a house, at least not for awhile. Thanks.
> 
> Sherry


Hi Sherry

I don't know anyone who has done that. Here is a site that you can use to find rental property.

Holiday Rentals. UK's No. 1 for self catering villas, apartments & cottage holidays in Spain, Portugal, France, Florida, Italy & worldwide.

Good Luck
Bill


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## NickZ

If you have a rental contract that should be all you need. There is no requirement to buy a home.


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## maryann

emax said:


> Paid for kids college..now it is our turn. My husband and I are in our early 50's and are looking into just picking up and moving for 6 mos...maybe a year...maybe forever. We are adventurous and have travelled quite a bit. We want the experience of a new culture. We will be giving up the security of our paychecks and family at least for the short term, Has anyone else done this?


Hi, we bought a home in Italy in July and hope to move there permanently and am losing sleep, literally, over the visa requirements. Does anyone know anything at all about the requirements of the Family Reasons Visa? I mean if the EU citizen has to be living over there and then invites the spouse to join him? My husband has not lived there. 
If we cannot get that, well, seems like tough income requirements.
MaryAnn


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## maryann

Bevdeforges said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum!
> 
> The exact process of moving overseas depends quite a bit on how you intend to do things. I chucked it all and moved overseas at the age of 40 or so, and so I first had to find a job so that I'd have an employer to handle all that visa stuff. If you're planning on working, you'll more or less have to go that route, too.
> 
> To do some sort of "early retirement" or "extended sabbatical" you need to consult the website of your local Italian Consulate to see what the procedure is for getting a visa without work privileges. It will help if you have family ties to Italy and if you speak the language reasonably well.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Hello, thanks so much for the reply today. very thorough. Bev, I still am reading conflicting information and different responses of Consulates. Isn't the Family Reasons visa also for spouses of EU citizens ACCOMPANYING them to Italy? In other words, the EU citizen does not have to be actually liviing over there, jsut is a citizen (he has Fr. passport). Some sites call it Fam. reasons and others Fam. Reunion. different
Thanks so much.
MaryAnn


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## maryann

vintage said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> We are doing the same, and have already purchased a house in capestrano (abruzzo region). We would like to live there permanently in less than 2 years. If anyone has any info on visas and residency in italy that they would share that would be great. Things to consider are, should we remain US citizens, or should we be dual citizens. I have heard that to remain US citizens you have to return to the US for a short time every couple of years. I will not be needing to work there, but I might do some renovation work just to keep busy. We are in the process now of getting things together here (real estate, money) to position ourselves to be self sufficient in italy. Again any advice would be appreciated.
> Bill


Bill, I had read in a few places that one can have dual citizenship, recognized by Italy and the U.Sl.
MaryAnn


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## maryann

NickZ said:


> The amount has nothing to do with the min amount to live on.
> 
> It's supposed to be high enough you will not become a drain on Italy in any way. High enough you are a positive for the country. High enough you will not work.
> 
> The other thing is it'll likely depend on the type of income. A government pension is fairly safe. If you're income comes from a company pension it's far less safe. So depending on the type of income it'll be discounted.
> 
> The numbers per day are usually for short term tourist visas. Some countries need a visa for even short visits.


 Hi there, do you think the Consulate looks at the whole picture, such as if the couple has substantial savings, rather than pensions? My pension will not be large, and my husband's will not begin for 2 more years. We already own the home there and will sell ours here.
Maryann, thanks


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## maryann

Bevdeforges said:


> Can't tell you much about the Italian visa process, but I can tell you that there is no need to return to the US periodically in order to maintain your US citizenship when living abroad. You are supposed to continue to file tax returns, declaring your worldwide income - but failure to do so won't affect your citizenship.
> 
> The question of taking or not taking Italian citizenship is one for you to decide after you have lived there long enough to be eligible for naturalization. It usually takes about 5 years or so of residence. In practical terms, about the only big advantage (besides that of having an EU nationality) is that of being able to vote where you live.
> 
> Giving up your US citizenship is actually quite difficult these days. And doing so can subject you to various penalties if they suspect you're renouncing your nationality "for tax reasons."
> Cheers,
> Bev


Bev, I am going nuts trying to find something on the forum. Someone had done some hunting on income requirements for getting an elective residency for Italy. They supplied in the post 2 links about Consulate income requirements. They were placed on the bottom of the post. I cannot find the thread or the post and just saw them 20 minutes ago. Should have read them then, but kept going on. Would you happen to know where these attachments are?
Thank you so much.
maryann


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## vintage

maryann said:


> Bev, I am going nuts trying to find something on the forum. Someone had done some hunting on income requirements for getting an elective residency for Italy. They supplied in the post 2 links about Consulate income requirements. They were placed on the bottom of the post. I cannot find the thread or the post and just saw them 20 minutes ago. Should have read them then, but kept going on. Would you happen to know where these attachments are?
> Thank you so much.
> maryann


Maryann,

I think this is my post you are looking for, here is the link

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/234088-post18.html

This is only income requirements for short term visas not what you need for full time residency.

Bill


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## Bevdeforges

maryann said:


> Hello, thanks so much for the reply today. very thorough. Bev, I still am reading conflicting information and different responses of Consulates. Isn't the Family Reasons visa also for spouses of EU citizens ACCOMPANYING them to Italy? In other words, the EU citizen does not have to be actually liviing over there, jsut is a citizen (he has Fr. passport). Some sites call it Fam. reasons and others Fam. Reunion. different
> Thanks so much.
> MaryAnn


The family reunification visa is normally for the spouse and children of a local national (i.e. Italian citizen in your case). There is a European Union regulation that says the member states have to "facilitate" the visa and residence permit process for non-EU spouses of EU residents - but "facilitate" tends to be interpreted differently in different countries.

If the consulate says that your husband has to be established in Italy in order for you to join him there, then it's possible that really is the case. At the very least, he needs to be able to show that he has a place for you to live and sufficient income to provide for both of you. It isn't necessarily the case that you have the right to accompany him to Italy, though. You really need to work with what the Italian consulate tells you.
Cheers,
Bev


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## maryann

vintage said:


> Maryann,
> 
> I think this is my post you are looking for, here is the link
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/234088-post18.html
> 
> This is only income requirements for short term visas not what you need for full time residency.
> 
> Bill


I appreciate your response. I did read it and yes, I see, just short term, darn.
Thanks for taking the time. Keep me posted on how you are doing with your plans. Would love to hear from you.


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## maryann

Bevdeforges said:


> The family reunification visa is normally for the spouse and children of a local national (i.e. Italian citizen in your case). There is a European Union regulation that says the member states have to "facilitate" the visa and residence permit process for non-EU spouses of EU residents - but "facilitate" tends to be interpreted differently in different countries.
> 
> If the consulate says that your husband has to be established in Italy in order for you to join him there, then it's possible that really is the case. At the very least, he needs to be able to show that he has a place for you to live and sufficient income to provide for both of you. It isn't necessarily the case that you have the right to accompany him to Italy, though. You really need to work with what the Italian consulate tells you.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thank you, Bev, for the reply. Yes, I plan on having an appointment to have the questions answered. I hope they will allow an appointment that is not for actually doing the applying at the appointment. It is too early to apply, given their time requirement, but do you think one has the right to ask for a general information appointment?


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## Bevdeforges

maryann said:


> Thank you, Bev, for the reply. Yes, I plan on having an appointment to have the questions answered. I hope they will allow an appointment that is not for actually doing the applying at the appointment. It is too early to apply, given their time requirement, but do you think one has the right to ask for a general information appointment?


Maryann, I think you're getting yourself all nervous and upset for no reason. You're asking for information from American couples looking to retire to Italy, when that isn't your situation at all.

I took a quick look at the Italian consulate website for Chicago, where they state quite plainly that what's on the website is only the general case for Americans looking for visas to go to Italy under the most common scenarios. They list some of the "exceptional" cases, and lo and behold, they mention EU nationals looking to move to Italy with non-EU family members. And there they suggest that you contact the consulate for information.

I would check the consulate website you've been dealing with, but usually you don't need an appoint to ask for information - and certainly don't use the appointment service for those with a visa application in the works if you're just looking for information. 

At this point, you shouldn't be worrying about income thresholds - they don't really apply to your case. It may actually be better if your husband (the EU national) contacts the consulate to ask for advice and the appropriate procedures for taking his non-EU family members to Italy. They should be able to give you a list of what you need to do, but don't go asking questions about anything they don't bring up. You don't have the same requirements as someone wanting to move to Italy on their own.
Cheers,
Bev


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## NickZ

The only income level for EU nationals is the residency requirement. I don't know the exact current level but it used to be around 6K Euros for the family.

Need a place to live.
Need health care intially
Need the 6 or whatever the current level is of income.

I think those are the only hurdles for EU nationals.


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## Bonnie1

*Good on you both*



ZsaZSa said:


> My husband and I are positioning ourselves to do just the same; sellling the house and wrapping up our work. It seems as though the "kids" got the best of us....and now it's time to rekindle "US". Please keep in touch how your plans are playing out. Best of luck to you both!!!


I intend to do the same when our property sells in Tasmania, my husband has no interest in doing the Italian thing, but I intend to buy a small villa and do a B&B for a few years, while he sails the Australia and Tasmanian coast. We will meet up again then. So good on you for making the move, keep in touch as where you are up to. The Forum is a great place to get lots of info on how to go about the move. Bonnie1


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## maryann

NickZ said:


> The only income level for EU nationals is the residency requirement. I don't know the exact current level but it used to be around 6K Euros for the family.
> 
> Need a place to live.
> Need health care intially
> Need the 6 or whatever the current level is of income.
> 
> I think those are the only hurdles for EU nationals.


Hello, Nick,
I have a couple of questions. My husband is an EU National. Some consulates tell me he must go get residency first. Do you know if he gets a residency certificate, and we go over together, can we then immediately return to America, and then I will apply for a visa?
Thanks.


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## ZsaZSa

Bonnie1 said:


> I intend to do the same when our property sells in Tasmania, my husband has no interest in doing the Italian thing, but I intend to buy a small villa and do a B&B for a few years, while he sails the Australia and Tasmanian coast. We will meet up again then. So good on you for making the move, keep in touch as where you are up to. The Forum is a great place to get lots of info on how to go about the move. Bonnie1


Thank you Bonnie...please keep in touch


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## NickZ

maryann said:


> Hello, Nick,
> I have a couple of questions. My husband is an EU National. Some consulates tell me he must go get residency first. Do you know if he gets a residency certificate, and we go over together, can we then immediately return to America, and then I will apply for a visa?
> Thanks.


I don't think it works that way. From what little I know once he has residence here he goes to the local Italian office and makes a request for you. 

But at worst you could go back and apply at the consulate . But I think he makes a request here.


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## csainz

*Shipping Vehicles to Italy!*

I worked in international airfreight for 20+ years. The cheapest way to send a vehicle overseas used to be by ship. Even though the airlines and containers both go by size / space / weight - the ocean containers are much cheaper due to time of travel. It would probably take 6 weeks to get your car. You might want to check with some local ocean shippers like UPS - Schenker Intl - Danzas - Burlington Northern, etc. Just check out the yellow pages for transporation and shipping and call them for quotes!

Good luck and enjoy!
Charlotte



QUOTE=maryann;225472]Hi, there, my husband and I live in New York State, U.S.A., and my heritage is Italian. I speak it decently (dialect), and my passion is to live in Italy. We will be retiring; we bought a new 2 bedroom home in Calabria this past July after a careful process of searching and deciding. We are very excited. We hope to sell our home here and be there by maybe October, hopefully!
It would be great to put together a nice group and once in a while speak English, right? If anyone knows how to ship a car there cheaply, please let me know. 
Thanks.
MaryAnn[/QUOTE]


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## Bonnie1

*Moving to Italy*



ZsaZSa said:


> Thank you Bonnie...please keep in touch


I have been looking in Abbruzo for homes that are reasonable, and am dealing with Ancient properties, they have been sending me all sorts of great homes for sale, that need some renovation, which i dont mind, but at least they are a good price. I dont want to be in Tuscany as it is a bit over priced, but find Marche, has a lot of homes that are a good price. Anyhow keep in touch and let me know how you are getting on finding a place, its good to know what the house purchasing, and bureaucracy problems are. Bonnie1


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## atemis

emax said:


> Paid for kids college..now it is our turn. My husband and I are in our early 50's and are looking into just picking up and moving for 6 mos...maybe a year...maybe forever. We are adventurous and have travelled quite a bit. We want the experience of a new culture. We will be giving up the security of our paychecks and family at least for the short term, Has anyone else done this?


BRAVO!! Yes...........just.......husband Ed was persuaded by me (Selena) to up chocks and away, we only chose italy becasue we were offered a what seemed like a to good to turn down job and a shed load of packing boxes!

I leave behind 2 children, 3 grandchildren, I packed in a Personal Triaining Business and a Gardening business, both booming, and Ed packed in his cushy job, to manage this so called luxury holiday let near Gambassi.
It's been a rocky start for a demanding boss, in a completely strange country ( we would feel more at home in the desert than we do here!!)

Italian culture is a bit of a shock when you have been living in Surrey - where things get done immediately, or at least when they are booked. Here it's majana...if you are lucky........ which I'm finding frustrating but I'm sure in the heat of the Tuscan sun I will adjust!! You only get one life....plan it, but do it!!

So, what about you then?


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## R.LOSCHIAVO

*rosana*



vintage said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> We are doing the same, and have already purchased a house in capestrano (abruzzo region). We would like to live there permanently in less than 2 years. If anyone has any info on visas and residency in italy that they would share that would be great. Things to consider are, should we remain US citizens, or should we be dual citizens. I have heard that to remain US citizens you have to return to the US for a short time every couple of years. I will not be needing to work there, but I might do some renovation work just to keep busy. We are in the process now of getting things together here (real estate, money) to position ourselves to be self sufficient in italy. Again any advice would be appreciated.
> Bill


I am also thinking about doing the same thing. my grandparents are italian and I can't wait to go back to my roots...I am in my mid fifties thinking about an early retirement. I still have to find out many things about the move. I just don't know if i should just move and then find some work, or try to get that before I move. I speak fluently 3 languages and my italian is decent. I understand very well.
I would like very much to stay in touch with people that are going trhough the same experiences... So I don't feel I'm doing something totally crazy...I'm just following my heart...


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## R.LOSCHIAVO

*rosana*



Bonnie1 said:


> I intend to do the same when our property sells in Tasmania, my husband has no interest in doing the Italian thing, but I intend to buy a small villa and do a B&B for a few years, while he sails the Australia and Tasmanian coast. We will meet up again then. So good on you for making the move, keep in touch as where you are up to. The Forum is a great place to get lots of info on how to go about the move. Bonnie1


How brave of you to do that...my hat's off...
I started to plan my move also...solo. 
Have to get a few things planned and then off I go...
Do you know anybody in Italy? Because that is my biggest fear...Not knowing anybody and starting a new life...
My best wishes to you


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