# Question : Ever been removed, deported or excluded from any country (including AUS)



## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

I need one suggestion from your side

My cousin has a visa refusal to Canada and inadmissibility for 2 years till Feb 2017.

Now he is applying to Australia and there is confusion in one Yes/ no question in Online visa application;-

Has any applicant ever been removed, deported or excluded from any country (including Australia)?

Shall He write yes or No ?

Please justify your responses.

Please help.

Thanks in advance.


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## ciitbilal (Jun 12, 2012)

Singh85 said:


> I need one suggestion from your side
> 
> My cousin has a visa refusal to Canada and inadmissibility for 2 years till Feb 2017.
> 
> ...


I'd definitely select "YES" and provide details of the visa rejection/inadmissibility.


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## FrozenAh (Apr 30, 2014)

ciitbilal said:


> I'd definitely select "YES" and provide details of the visa rejection/inadmissibility.


I dont think *'normal'* visa refusals come under this. But a ban may come under exclusion.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

thanks for reply but there are other options in FORM 80 to mention about visa rejection.
FORM 80
Part O – Deportations
40 Have you ever been excluded, asked to leave, deported or removed from
any country?
Part N – Visa refusals
39 Have you ever been refused a visa to any country?


I think that the question in application form comes under deportation not visa refusal thus, he has to put no on application form and Yes on form 80.

Expert please review and correct if wrong.


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## rameshkd (Aug 26, 2011)

By visa refusal I assume his application was rejected. In this case his answer should be "NO". He was not deported or sent back from Canada.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

Yes, thanks Rameshkd for reply. I also think same in this case. 

as the question 
Has any applicant ever been removed, deported or excluded from any country (including Australia)?

is only for those who were ask to leave the country or deported or not allowed to enter at Visa Security check at airport.
But still I am searching the meaning of the word "excluded" in the context.

Others reviews are also welcome.


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## FrozenAh (Apr 30, 2014)

Singh85 said:


> Yes, thanks Rameshkd for reply. I also think same in this case.
> 
> as the question
> Has any applicant ever been removed, deported or excluded from any country (including Australia)?
> ...


Ban may come under exclusion. You need expert advice on this matter. This is something very serious, misrepresentation may lead to refusal.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

FrozenAh said:


> Ban may come under exclusion. You need expert advice on this matter. This is something very serious, misrepresentation may lead to refusal.


Yes sir, thats why I am searching for reviews from experts. As I have contacted MARA agents as well and again some says to put YEs and some say to put NO.

I am confused. dont know what to do. 

Shall He put no in application form and yes in form 80 and proceed

as I think that deported in much serious issue than visa refusal.

Experts please help.


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Yes, deported is more serious. It means that someone broke some rules etc when in Canada. 

Visa refusal is much more common. It can mean that your funds were not enough etc. Of course if your visa was refused due to fraudulent documents then it is harder to justify.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

trinkasharma said:


> Yes, deported is more serious. It means that someone broke some rules etc when in Canada.
> 
> Visa refusal is much more common. It can mean that your funds were not enough etc. Of course if your visa was refused due to fraudulent documents then it is harder to justify.



Yes, But the thing is that his Visa was refused due to inconsistencies found by CO during physical check for instance, meeting timings, workstations. His rejection letter says that your experience was irrelevant and for that your work experience points are not counted and thus visa is refused.

So, what you suggest about the above mentioned question.
what can be the best practice ?


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Well if he wants to state the truth then he needs to tick on

Part O – Deportations
40 Have you ever been excluded, asked to leave, deported or removed from
any country?
NO
Or maybe YES. He was excluded for 2 years or so.
Part N – Visa refusals
39 Have you ever been refused a visa to any country?
Definitely YES


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

trinkasharma said:


> Well if he wants to state the truth then he needs to tick on
> 
> Part O – Deportations
> 40 Have you ever been excluded, asked to leave, deported or removed from
> ...


Thanks for your feedback but If he put NO in Q40 and YES in Q39 and state all the facts and inadmissibility. I think the CO will not reject case on the basis of hiding facts from him as it is declared in Q39.

What u suggest.?
Other please analyse and give your valuable feedback.


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Well if you put NO on top and then give details on bottom then I you are

Admitting a fact
and 
non admitting it on the same page. Not sure what CO will do with this.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

trinkasharma said:


> Well if you put NO on top and then give details on bottom then I you are
> 
> Admitting a fact
> and
> non admitting it on the same page. Not sure what CO will do with this.


what my thought process says that Q40 has more negative effect that Q39. Thus I am guiding him to declare yes on Q39. and no at Q40.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Singh85 said:


> I need one suggestion from your side
> 
> My cousin has a visa refusal to Canada and inadmissibility for 2 years till Feb 2017.
> 
> ...


Has the person ever set foot in Canada and was "forcibly" or "legally" removed from Canada at any point in time? If not, then the answer is "no".


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Has any applicant ever been removed, deported or excluded from any country (including Australia)?

He has been excluded.

Exclude - definition of exclude by The Free Dictionary
Exclude - definition of exclude by The Free Dictionary
To prevent from entering; keep out; bar: a jar sealed to exclude outside air; ... "This policy excludes people who have a criminal record from entering the country"

I know that I am not giving you any good news. But I want to give you the real situation in this case.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

trinkasharma said:


> Has any applicant ever been removed, deported or excluded from any country (including Australia)?
> 
> He has been excluded.
> 
> ...


You are right at your point sir as excluded in dictionary is the same meaning which you explained but excluded can also mean that refused to entry at International Zone, i.e Visa check centre at Airport.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

dave85 said:


> Has the person ever set foot in Canada and was "forcibly" or "legally" removed from Canada at any point in time? If not, then the answer is "no".


No sir, He has just applied for Visa and got refused with 2 years inadmissibility. 
He had never step in Canada.
I appreciate your reply but are you 100% sure about your answer as I am very confused regarding this particular question.
A little miscommunication can divert the case in other direction.


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## FrozenAh (Apr 30, 2014)

I think your best bet here is to contact Dibp directly. Explain them everything. I am not sure whether they would advise anything on this but its worth a try.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Singh85 said:


> No sir, He has just applied for Visa and got refused with 2 years inadmissibility.
> He had never step in Canada.
> I appreciate your reply but are you 100% sure about your answer as I am very confused regarding this particular question.
> A little miscommunication can divert the case in other direction.


The legal term "exclude" does not necessarily mean the same thing as how we use "exclude" in daily usage. 

"Exclude" and "deport" are 2 sides of the same coin. To "deport" means to forcibly remove someone from the country. To "exclude" means to refuse entry to a person trying to enter the country (e.g., after the person has landed at the airport and denied entry at immigration). 

Obviously, the above scenario is different from being "having a visa application refused". If your friend has never stepped into Canada (either at border control on land or at the airport), then he has not been excluded from the country.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

dave85 said:


> The legal term "exclude" does not necessarily mean the same thing as how we use "exclude" in daily usage.
> 
> "Exclude" and "deport" are 2 sides of the same coin. To "deport" means to forcibly remove someone from the country. To "exclude" means to refuse entry to a person trying to enter the country (e.g., after the person has landed at the airport and denied entry at immigration).
> 
> Obviously, the above scenario is different from being "having a visa application refused". If your friend has never stepped into Canada (either at border control on land or at the airport), then he has not been excluded from the country.


This sound a solid and justified reply. Thanks Dave85.I totally agree on your views.

Others please review and suggest.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

any more expert advice please


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

Singh85 said:


> My cousin has a visa refusal to Canada and inadmissibility for 2 years till Feb 2017.


The fact that you said your cousin was inadmissable for 2 years would prompt me to reply Yes to this question and then explain the answer.

I tend to take the cautious approach, so I think it is safer to take the more extreme viewpoint of the question and have DIBP decide your cousin doesn't meet the issue of this question. If he instead takes the less extreme viewpoint of the question it would be worse to have DIBP think your cousin was trying to hide his situation.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

Maggie-May24 said:


> The fact that you said your cousin was inadmissable for 2 years would prompt me to reply Yes to this question and then explain the answer.
> 
> I tend to take the cautious approach, so I think it is safer to take the more extreme viewpoint of the question and have DIBP decide your cousin doesn't meet the issue of this question. If he instead takes the less extreme viewpoint of the question it would be worse to have DIBP think your cousin was trying to hide his situation.


What you think putting NO to this question can directly refuse Australia visa or CO may ask for it?


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Are you (or your cousin) thinking of hiding certain aspects of the application from DIBP. Your cousin does have to account for the previous visa refusal to Canada and inadmissibility, whether it is for Question 39 or Question 40. He can answer "Yes" for both, and simply state the same reasons. Being overly honest is perfectly fine.

The issue is not whether he answer "yes" to one or the other question. Rather, it is "WHY" he got visa refusal and inadmissibility in the first place.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

dave85 said:


> Are you (or your cousin) thinking of hiding certain aspects of the application from DIBP. Your cousin does have to account for the previous visa refusal to Canada and inadmissibility, whether it is for Question 39 or Question 40. He can answer "Yes" for both, and simply state the same reasons. Being overly honest is perfectly fine.
> 
> The issue is not whether he answer "yes" to one or the other question. Rather, it is "WHY" he got visa refusal and inadmissibility in the first place.


No, He will not hide anything.he is thinking of submitting the application and form 80/1221 and giving answer NO in Online application form and YEs in Form 80.


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## Singh85 (Aug 19, 2015)

I was going through one link and found that Excluded means inadmissibility and ban.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa...esolution-service/exclusion-period-fact-sheet

However, I just concluded the meaning of work "excluded" from this link. However, This link is for overstay in Australia.

Please suggest if I am wrong?


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