# Doing a Runner ?



## markfuengirola

Maybe a sensitive subect this, but I have to ask seeing as the advice and information you guys have offered me has been absolutely invaluable.
In a nutshell, my Dad is thinking of not paying what he owes the bank's overdraft (he is NOT a crook but has certain personal reasons , the bank bascially foreclosed on his business without warning after 30 succesfull years of honest trading, i guess due to the current economic climate) If he does (though there is a big chance he WILL actually pay the bank back in full ),do that he will be leaving the UK owing the bank at _least_ 30k after he pays what he actually can to them. A large amount by anyone's standards
What happens if he does that ? Will they be able to trace him and get the money/assets off him in Spain ? Or will it just be a UK issue ? I know he would not be able to return to the UK for 5 years if he did so etc.
I am not asking anyone to condone this, just wondered if anyone knew what would happen to him if he chose this route. I don't know whom else to ask as I fear he may just do it anyway without being informed first.
Many thanks
Mark


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> Maybe a sensitive subect this, but I have to ask seeing as the advice and information you guys have offered me has been absolutely invaluable.
> In a nutshell, my Dad is thinking of not paying what he owes the bank's overdraft (he is NOT a crook but has certain personal reasons , the bank bascially foreclosed on his business without warning after 30 succesfull years of honest trading, i guess due to the current economic climate) If he does (though there is a big chance he WILL actually pay the bank back in full ),do that he will be leaving the UK owing the bank at _least_ 30k after he pays what he actually can to them. A large amount by anyone's standards
> What happens if he does that ? Will they be able to trace him and get the money/assets off him in Spain ? Or will it just be a UK issue ? I know he would not be able to return to the UK for 5 years if he did so etc.
> I am not asking anyone to condone this, just wondered if anyone knew what would happen to him if he chose this route. I don't know whom else to ask as I fear he may just do it anyway without being informed first.
> Many thanks
> Mark


Hi Mark

A sensitive subject Im sure and one that no doubt you had difficulty in raising on here given that its so personal to you and your family.

Be warned that there is little chance if him being able to walk away and not be found! I know of people who have tried that with much smaller amounts than you are talking and the banks didnt give up! Also people like the tax authorities etc in the UK have links and agreements with the authorities here so they can get the Spanish tax authorities to come after you for money owed in the UK.

The mortgage issue here for example has resulted in the banks having much closer links with the UK authorities in order to collect outstanding debts from people who have "run" back to the UK - in addition they can now go after your UK assets in addition to your Spanish ones.

I would therefore assume that the reverse is true, and that there are ways of UK banks, lenders etc following you to Spain to collect what is owed.

Bear in mind that even though this may take time - that will be reflected in penalties, fines or interest accrued .... so he could end up with an even bigger debt.

Im no expert Mark but thats my opinion on it ...

Sue :ranger:


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## xabiaxica

I know someone who did a runner on his mortgage (negative equity) among other things when they emigrated to OZ

he did visit the UK a couple of years later with no problems

I totally don't condone what he did - & not just because he owed me money

it must be fifteen years ago now

it would be interesting to see what would happen in the unlikely event that he decided to return to the UK to live


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## Suenneil

xabiachica said:


> I know someone who did a runner on his mortgage (negative equity) among other things when they emigrated to OZ
> 
> he did visit the UK a couple of years later with no problems
> 
> I totally don't condone what he did - & not just because he owed me money
> 
> it must be fifteen years ago now
> 
> it would be interesting to see what would happen in the unlikely event that he decided to return to the UK to live


Hi X

I think that the stronger links between Countries now (particularly EU Countries) has made it more difficult to walk away from such debts. I have no doubt there are some people who "get away with it" ... but its a huge risk to take ... irrespective of whether you think its right or wrong in the first place.

Sue


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## mrypg9

I think I am right in saying -Sue may know -that a device known as a European Payment Order (EPO) came into force on January 1st 2008. This enables an order for the repayment of a UK incurred debt in any EU country without the necessity of going through a UK court to obtain a CCJ which previously could not be done in the debtor's absence.
If successful,the bank will pass the debt recovery to a specialist international debt recovery agency who will track the debtor and extract payment using the EPO. These agencies are usually but not always successful in doing so. The debtor will be blacklisted in the UK and find it difficult to open even an offshore account with a UK bank as references have to be given. Opening an account with a Spanish bank may be easier but then the Spanish tax and legal authorities will be able to liase with an EPO if such is obtained.
I hasten to add that I do not know this from personal experience but through attendance at Law Conferences etc. I have mixed feelings about people who 'do a runner'. On the one hand, bad luck is bad luck and Heaven knows banks take enough in charges, interest etc. from businesses and individuals. But costs are then passed on to other 'innocent' clients.
Can your father not take advice about applying for an IVA? Or even declaring himself bankrupt? Pension income is usually exempt from debt recovery.


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## mrypg9

I also think -but not sure -that after a period of six years a UK debt cannot be pursued. Unless the debt is to a UK Government Agency, there is no likelihood of anyone being 'barred' from entering or leaving the UK. Commercial debt is essentially a civil matter.


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## markfuengirola

Many many thanks for all your replies . I appreciate your sound advice and non judgemental words. I doubt he will actually leave the UK with such a large debt as having such a huge amount owed would be frightening and not wise for anyone I guess.
Many best wishes
Mark


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## JBODEN

Is it a business or personal debt?


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## markfuengirola

Hi.
It was a business overdraft. the company DID go bankrupt but my dad personally guaranteed it so now they're coming after him. Between 40% and 60% of it will be oayed back from the sale of the business and its debtors payments but he will still owe at least 30k
Poor man worked since he was 15, 7 days a week all his life, paid his taxes etc to be ruined by the bloodybank! He can't even get pension credits or the dole !!!
Mark


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## Spanky McSpank

I doubt very much he would have any problems if he "did a runner".


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## Suenneil

Spanky McSpank said:


> I doubt very much he would have any problems if he "did a runner".


Dont be too sure  we had heard a lot of stories recently where people have been "contacted" out of the blue by people / establishments they owe money to in the UK.

Of course its down to the individual at the end of the day to weigh up the risks .... Im a cowardy custard so it wouldnt do for me


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## markfuengirola

Thank you for your kind advice.
It really is appreciated.


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## mrypg9

Spanky McSpank said:


> I doubt very much he would have any problems if he "did a runner".


Well, apart from being blacklisted, having bank accounts and credit cards frozen, possibly.
And if you have no money at the end of the day you can't pay what you don't have.
But as I suggested and another poster has also mentioned, bankruptcy or an IVA is an honourable course these days.
Some overdraft support sgreements aren't worth the paper they're written on , though. At least, that's what our friendly business bank manager told us when we were in business. Just a formality. Especially if the collateral isn't specified.


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## Caz.I

Spanky McSpank said:


> I doubt very much he would have any problems if he "did a runner".


Oh I think he would. In Spain anyway. I hadnt even done a runner (honest, guvnor), and I was chased by a debt agency in the UK for a small overdraft. I just hadnt realised that the bank didnt know where I was. I had sent them a letter telling them I had moved from one address in Spain to another address in Spain, and as i barely used the account and rarely got bank statements before then, I wasnt aware of any urgency to pay it all back. I hadnt even changed phone numbers or email so the bank could have got hold of me. But they didnt bother, they passed it to an agency who were not nasty but very snotty, and totally disbelieved me.

Ironically, another bank whom I had written to about the change of address, had received my letter and sent me a letter to my new address saying they didnt think my signature was correct, so wouldnt send me any account information to my new address!  Instead, they wanted me to fill in a form and take it to my local branch (UK!) Needless to say, that was the end of them!


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## Xose

markfuengirola said:


> Maybe a sensitive subect this, but I have to ask seeing as the advice and information you guys have offered me has been absolutely invaluable.
> In a nutshell, my Dad is thinking of not paying what he owes the bank's overdraft (he is NOT a crook but has certain personal reasons , the bank bascially foreclosed on his business without warning after 30 succesfull years of honest trading, i guess due to the current economic climate) If he does (though there is a big chance he WILL actually pay the bank back in full ),do that he will be leaving the UK owing the bank at _least_ 30k after he pays what he actually can to them. A large amount by anyone's standards
> What happens if he does that ? Will they be able to trace him and get the money/assets off him in Spain ? Or will it just be a UK issue ? I know he would not be able to return to the UK for 5 years if he did so etc.
> I am not asking anyone to condone this, just wondered if anyone knew what would happen to him if he chose this route. I don't know whom else to ask as I fear he may just do it anyway without being informed first.
> Many thanks
> Mark



Hi Mark,
Your Dad’s big problem would be if the debt is sold. £30K of debt is a fairly tradeable commodity. This being the case, he could end up owing the money to whomever bought it.

There was a programme on Spanish TV recently questioning the practices of the companies who chase people in debt in Spain (working for some big name Banks and Cajas), known as the list of Morosos, including hounding to death at work, home and play spaces – followed by rather more serious valed threats. These to people who had nothing to pay back with but whom the collectors were trying to persuade to find friends, relatives or whomever that did have something to pay back with…… you get the picture, not nize.

If I had to make the choice, I might think about risking a 2 or 3k owed to some credit card company, and then probably pay it or make a 50P a week deal or some such, but on £30K I wouldn’t – there are just too many nasty options available to those who have the commodity to deal with. Dealing with it via a legal insolvency route is, in my opinion, the safest route.

Xose


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## markfuengirola

Wise words from Xose again !

Thanks to you all for such informative replies. You clever lot. I am trying to persuade him NOT to leave the debt owing.

Many thanks

Mark


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## markfuengirola

Thanks for your reply mrypg9 ! You know, it's odd you should say that cos when our bank manager found out my dad's company was going bankrupt he said to my dad in a whisper re the overdraft, "I didn't say this but just walk away", wonder what he meant by that. If he went for personal bankrupcy or an IVA don't they take his assets etc from him ? The sale of their house is funding the move to Spain.
Thanks
Mark


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## Guest

Three questions- Why Spain? Although for many leaving the UK under more regular circumstances it has more positives than negatives in the situation you describe it may be worth considering other locations - one plan is that he could go to Panama having faked his disappearance while out canoeing...... I am sure that would be easy. - But seriously what about Brazil, Argentina, Thailand etc.... it may be easier to disappear there and the cost of living far less.

Regarding cost of living - how would your father survive here in Spain, does he speak Spanish - almost essential for a job, if he can't pay off 30 k in the UK how will he live here? The cost of living is not far off the UK but the sunshines a lot more so people don't tend to pay too much attention to that, in other places mentioned above any money could keep you going for 5 times longer.

If your father is not a crook and an honest chap would he be able to continue life as before without either be consumed by either guilt or worry about being caught.

Just thinking aloud... not condoning.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. It appears very unfair.


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## markfuengirola

Thanks for your reply, the fake death thing actually made him and I laugh. Though I HAVE advised against any photos of them taken by estate agents on any balconies lol!!

He likes Spain and has been there alot in the past, and whilst he can't speak Spanish I can and would be living with them for a while (God help me) to settle them in, my Mum's quite good at languages.

They tried to emigrate further afield a few years ago before any of this debt issue occured, but as we have no family, job sponsorhips in Oz, USA or Canada ' getting in 'would be very difficult, you can't even retire to Canada even if you are 'rich' !!Although apparently you CAN emigrate there if you are prepared to buy a company and employ 10 people full time (not something retiring Brits would want to do much I suppose)

As for Thailand etc, they are not viable, they're too far flung (they are NOT good with air travel) and life there would be too dissimilar to life here for them (ie Europe) shame though, as you said some pf those places ARE cheap and one can easily dissapear there.
He has private pensions and some money to live out the rest of his days in relative comfort and whilst he COULD pay the debt off in one go, it would leave him with very little left. Oh well, back to the drawing board. he can't go personaly bankrupt or get an IVA because he has too many assets ie the house, which he is selling to fund his retirment and pay the bank anyway.
Mark


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## mrypg9

markfuengirola said:


> Thanks for your reply mrypg9 ! You know, it's odd you should say that cos when our bank manager found out my dad's company was going bankrupt he said to my dad in a whisper re the overdraft, "I didn't say this but just walk away", wonder what he meant by that. If he went for personal bankrupcy or an IVA don't they take his assets etc from him ? The sale of their house is funding the move to Spain.
> Thanks
> Mark


*All* debts are 'sold' by banks, credit card companies etc. to Debt Collection Agencies. These vary in their approach from the downright nasty and threatening (highly illegal) to the merely persistent. But in order to enforce a debt, any debt, a judgment MUST be obtained against you.
As for guaranteeing the business loan -£30k is actually very small potatoes in the debt world!!! In order to take your dad's house the bank would have to get a charge against it via a County Court Judgment. If the house sale is already underway it will be too late to get this order. The bank could ask for the sale money to be taken from him, though.
Basically, the Bank can take action against him. Whether they would or not, on an unsecured debt, I can't say.
What is true though is that it's not that easy to just 'do a runner' if you want to stay within the 'respectable' finance system. U.K. Banks, both on and off-shore,now require references. In order to open an offshore account with a UK bank, I had to provide personal details,certified copy of passport, proof of address,six months' bank statements and documented proof of where my income comes from, plus reference. The Bank you dad owes to may refer his debt to a Credit Reference Agency such as Experian, which amounts to a blacklisting for any future accounts of any kind. I can't say whether you could be traced if you took money to a Spanish account as there must be Data Protection Laws (Sue?) but Debt Collection Agencies operate across national borders.
Think of the cost of recovering £30k, though. It might not be worth their time and effort to chase your dad across Europe.
But it might.


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## Suenneil

mrypg9 said:


> *All* debts are 'sold' by banks, credit card companies etc. to Debt Collection Agencies. These vary in their approach from the downright nasty and threatening (highly illegal) to the merely persistent. But in order to enforce a debt, any debt, a judgment MUST be obtained against you.
> As for guaranteeing the business loan -£30k is actually very small potatoes in the debt world!!! In order to take your dad's house the bank would have to get a charge against it via a County Court Judgment. If the house sale is already underway it will be too late to get this order. The bank could ask for the sale money to be taken from him, though.
> Basically, the Bank can take action against him. Whether they would or not, on an unsecured debt, I can't say.
> What is true though is that it's not that easy to just 'do a runner' if you want to stay within the 'respectable' finance system. U.K. Banks, both on and off-shore,now require references. In order to open an offshore account with a UK bank, I had to provide personal details,certified copy of passport, proof of address,six months' bank statements and documented proof of where my income comes from, plus reference. The Bank you dad owes to may refer his debt to a Credit Reference Agency such as Experian, which amounts to a blacklisting for any future accounts of any kind.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say whether you could be traced if you took money to a Spanish account as there must be Data Protection Laws (Sue?)
> 
> 
> 
> but Debt Collection Agencies operate across national borders.
> Think of the cost of recovering £30k, though. It might not be worth their time and effort to chase your dad across Europe.
> But it might.
Click to expand...

Despite working for a law firm Im not a lawyer myself - so on something as tricky as this Im going to speak to one of my Lawyer colleagues today ... Ill let you know what the feedback is.

Sue


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## markfuengirola

Any more advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated, thanks Sue.
A lawyer eh? Beauty AND brains I see !


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## markfuengirola

Thanks again mrypg9, it really is heart warming to see such long and considered replies to my posts on this forum.


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> Any more advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated, thanks Sue.
> A lawyer eh? Beauty AND brains I see !


 Hi Mark

Well, it seems this is a complicated issue and is dependent on a couple of things, including the amount of debt and who it is owed to, and whether or not they would be inclined to go after said debt.

Firstly they would have to go to Court in the UK to register the debt and obtain a judgement to retrieve it. IF they obtained the judgement in the UK they could then approach the Courts in Spain to present the judgement and apply for the Spanish courts to uphold this and grant them permission to execute the judgement here.

(so far this is a lot of time and money ... so presumably they will have to weigh up the cost/benefits before proceeding).

If they are given the go ahead in the Spanish Courts they can then go after your Dad for the money - but again unless they believe he has some assets / income to go after it could cost them more than its worth!

Im not sure if this debt includes any tax related issues ? but if so, it is relatively easy for the UK tax authorities to transfer any arrears to the Spanish Hacienda who will take up the responsbility of chasing it .... and if this is the case bear in mind that the Hacienda can place embargos on Spanish bank accounts etc - in fact they seem to be able to do pretty much what they want!

Dont take this information as definitive Mark - as I am sure there are many elements that need looking at in more detail from all parties involved.

Sue


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## markfuengirola

Hi Sue,

Thanks again for your advice. The debt will be (from what I know) between 30 and 50 thousand GBP and is for the bank overdraft that was agreed. I can't see any tax related issues as it is just the overdraft he owes, he has no other debts at all, not even small ones (ironic eh). 
The only assets my parents will have will be the house in Spain they will be buying and some savings and pensions. I know for a fact they cannot transfer assets/money into my name as that would be classed as fraud.
Thanks again
Mark


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> Hi Sue,
> 
> Thanks again for your advice. The debt will be (from what I know) between 30 and 50 thousand GBP and is for the bank overdraft that was agreed. I can't see any tax related issues as it is just the overdraft he owes, he has no other debts at all, not even small ones (ironic eh).
> 
> 
> 
> The only assets my parents will have will be the house in Spain
> 
> 
> 
> they will be buying and some savings and pensions. I know for a fact they cannot transfer assets/money into my name as that would be classed as fraud.
> Thanks again
> Mark
Click to expand...

If the worse case scenario happened then Mark (ie judgement was passed in the UK and then again in Spain) there house would be classed as an asset and something to go after as part of the debt.

But again, this is something that I think you (your Dad) should get expert advice on just so you are making any future decisions armed with all the possible outcomes.

Sue


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## JBODEN

I'm not sure that the Bank can get at your parents' house unless your mother agreed (signed) for it to be used as security. I remember in my Banking days that the spouse *successfully *claimed that she was not consulted when the Bank agreed loan terms with her husband, and _had _she been consulted she would not have agreed for the house to be used as security.


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## Suenneil

JBODEN said:


> I'm not sure that the Bank can get at your parents' house unless your mother agreed (signed) for it to be used as security. I remember in my Banking days that the spouse *successfully *claimed that she was not consulted when the Bank agreed loan terms with her husband, and _had _she been consulted she would not have agreed for the house to be used as security.


Hi 

I didnt suggest the house was held as security against the loan. But that if the Courts ruled the bank could pursue the debt in Spain - then the house may be considered an asset.

I think in cases such as these where a lot of money is involved its best to get expert advice.....too risky to take chances .....

Sue


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## Xose

Suenneil said:


> Hi
> 
> I didnt suggest the house was held as security against the loan. But that if the Courts ruled the bank could pursue the debt in Spain - then the house may be considered an asset.
> 
> I think in cases such as these where a lot of money is involved its best to get expert advice.....too risky to take chances .....
> 
> Sue


Agree. Someone said 30K wans't a lot - it is with expenses added if assets to get at are involved.

That famous small print banking term comes to mind.... Jointly and Severally!!

Xose


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## markfuengirola

... and therein lies the problem Sue. No-one is willing or able to tell us what would or would not happen.

But as you said it IS a grey area.And if even a lawyer says it's complex area, it has to be!
As regards to the house, he personally guaranteed the overdraft although i do not know whether that would mean he was seen by the bank as agreeing to use the house as security. They certainly refused to secure the loan on the house in previous years and would never knowingly have secured _any_ loan on the house, ever.
Thanks
Mark


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## mrypg9

JBODEN said:


> I'm not sure that the Bank can get at your parents' house unless your mother agreed (signed) for it to be used as security. I remember in my Banking days that the spouse *successfully *claimed that she was not consulted when the Bank agreed loan terms with her husband, and _had _she been consulted she would not have agreed for the house to be used as security.


Any asset, apart from some pension funds, can be seized if a Court so determines, whether you agree or not. That goes for nearly all assets and all debt. After all, were it not so, we could all avoid paying our debts if a Company was daft enough not to pursue them. As Sue has said, 'jointly and severally' apply here. In order to avoid seizure you would have to have legally signed over the asset to your spouse before incurring the debt or divorce him/her-as did Jonathan Aitken. Most credit agreements stipulate in the small print that you may forfeit assets in case of non-payment. But I doubt this was the case with Mark's dad -it certainly wasn't with our much larger overdraft guarantee. (Businesses sold, no debts, just in time, two years before credit crunch! Luck, not judgment, I hasten to add).
Sue, I don't think there would be any need to go through Spanish banks now that creditors/agents can secure a European Payment Order. This instrument was designed for precisely this kind of case. 
Xose: £30k is a comparatively small amount for corporate debt. I think you will find that it is strictly speaking not legal to apply interest and other charges but I'm not 100% sure of that. 
If you wanted to present me with £30k I would on the otherhand be rather pleased and promise I wouldn't sulk because it was so little!


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> ... and therein lies the problem Sue. No-one is willing or able to tell us what would or would not happen.
> 
> But as you said it IS a grey area.And if even a lawyer says it's complex area, it has to be!
> As regards to the house, he personally guaranteed the overdraft although i do not know whether that would mean he was seen by the bank as agreeing to use the house as security. They certainly refused to secure the loan on the house in previous years and would never knowingly have secured _any_ loan on the house, ever.
> Thanks
> Mark


Hi Mark

We could round in circles on this one I fear! The definitive answer will only come when a suitably quialified person looks at the relevant documentation / agreements related to the outstanding debt. Without have access to that information no one could give you a final and fully informed answer - as it will all be based on supposition and generalisations.

Im sure your Dad could arrange a session with a Legal & Financial expert to discuss this and the potential options / outcomes......

Best of luck to you all ..... Sue


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## Suenneil

mrypg9 said:


> Any asset, apart from some pension funds, can be seized if a Court so determines, whether you agree or not. That goes for nearly all assets and all debt. After all, were it not so, we could all avoid paying our debts if a Company was daft enough not to pursue them. As Sue has said, 'jointly and severally' apply here. In order to avoid seizure you would have to have legally signed over the asset to your spouse before incurring the debt or divorce him/her-as did Jonathan Aitken. Most credit agreements stipulate in the small print that you may forfeit assets in case of non-payment. But I doubt this was the case with Mark's dad -it certainly wasn't with our much larger overdraft guarantee. (Businesses sold, no debts, just in time, two years before credit crunch! Luck, not judgment, I hasten to add).
> Sue, I don't think there would be any need to go through Spanish banks now that creditors/agents can secure a European Payment Order. This instrument was designed for precisely this kind of case.
> Xose: £30k is a comparatively small amount for corporate debt. I think you will find that it is strictly speaking not legal to apply interest and other charges but I'm not 100% sure of that.
> If you wanted to present me with £30k I would on the otherhand be rather pleased and promise I wouldn't sulk because it was so little!





> Furthermore, European Enforcement Orders introduce a means by which to more cost-effectively pursue judgment debts in any member state of the European Union, so that assets may be realised in other member states, on the back of a judgment obtained in England.


..... Sue


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## mrypg9

Yes, the best advice is to: seek professional advice! Loads of reputable agencies including UK government website.


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## Kurtis Eddy

*re*

nice posts yarr


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## markfuengirola

I have persuaded my Dad to pay the debt off.
I think it's for the best all round.
Have a great weekend everybody and thank you for all your kind words.
Mark


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> I have persuaded my Dad to pay the debt off.
> I think it's for the best all round.
> Have a great weekend everybody and thank you for all your kind words.
> Mark


Have a great weekend yourself Mark .... and I hope your Dad has a good one too ... lane:


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## mrypg9

markfuengirola said:


> I have persuaded my Dad to pay the debt off.
> I think it's for the best all round.
> Have a great weekend everybody and thank you for all your kind words.
> Mark


I tink on balance you are right to give this advice , Mark, for many reasons, moral and practical.
But I feel deeply for your dad and I can well imagine how he feels after seeing his many years of honest hard work going for nothing because of greedy financiers who will sail through this crisis with gold-lined coffers.
As I posted earlier, we sold up in time. But I know from personal experience how much of your life you put into your business and how precarious it can be to stay afloat at the best of times.
Good luck to you both. You sound like a very decent person and that being the case, your dad must be too as he brought you up!


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## markfuengirola

Stop being so nice you guys, you'll make me cry.
But now I have ANOTHER question for you.
My parents have accounts with Alliance and Leicester in UK but that bank will NOT let them continue with them if they move abroad and they cant keep the same UK address cos the house is being bought off them
So, they went to _my_ bank, HSBC who _does_ let you have a UK account with a Spanish resident address BUT they couldn't get it beacuse of their bad credit rating even though they have thousands.
They need to open a Spanish account but are now thinking of cancelling Spain because they are scared that they wont be able to open an account there because of their bad credit here. HELP!!!! This is a nightmare !!
Thanks
Mark


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> Stop being so nice you guys, you'll make me cry.
> But now I have ANOTHER question for you.
> My parents have accounts with Alliance and Leicester in UK but that bank will NOT let them continue with them if they move abroad and they cant keep the same UK address cos the house is being bought off them
> So, they went to _my_ bank, HSBC who _does_ let you have a UK account with a Spanish resident address BUT they couldn't get it beacuse of their bad credit rating even though they have thousands.
> They need to open a Spanish account but are now thinking of cancelling Spain because they are scared that they wont be able to open an account there because of their bad credit here. HELP!!!! This is a nightmare !!
> Thanks
> Mark


Hello you 

Opening an account here shouldnt be a problem at all. I am not aware of any credit checks / scoring / rating being done in advance of opening an account. I have had one at Duetsche bank for nearly 5 years and they just opened it for me when I put the minimum 100 euros in there 

Depends on where you will eventually be living (best to choose one that has the most cash points / branches in that area) but there are loads to choose from. In fact if you have a look around the forum you should be able to find a thread about "the best bank" or "opening a bank account" I think !

Dont worry ................ chill out its nearly the weekend


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## markfuengirola

My God!
Is there anything you don't know ? lol
Thanks again Sue
Have a super weekend
Mark


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> My God!
> Is there anything you don't know ? lol
> Thanks again Sue
> Have a super weekend
> Mark


 Of course there is lots I dont know! but you are asking questions that are part of my day to day life here! just dont ask me any football or car questions!

Have a great weekend yourself. lane:


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## mrypg9

markfuengirola said:


> Stop being so nice you guys, you'll make me cry.
> But now I have ANOTHER question for you.
> My parents have accounts with Alliance and Leicester in UK but that bank will NOT let them continue with them if they move abroad and they cant keep the same UK address cos the house is being bought off them
> So, they went to _my_ bank, HSBC who _does_ let you have a UK account with a Spanish resident address BUT they couldn't get it beacuse of their bad credit rating even though they have thousands.
> They need to open a Spanish account but are now thinking of cancelling Spain because they are scared that they wont be able to open an account there because of their bad credit here. HELP!!!! This is a nightmare !!
> Thanks
> Mark


Sue is right again I queued for three hours to get my NIE at Estepona Policia only to have the office door closed as I got to third place in the queue. Not realising there were English speakers around I softly muttered :'F***!' in exasperation only to hear a kind Brummy voice say 'What's up, love, you seem upset?'
I explained I had queued because I needed a NIE to open a bank account as I had been solemnly told was the case in Spain. I was told that was a load of 'B******s' and I needed only my passport and proof I had an address, i.e. rental contract, utility bill. I drove straight to the nearest bank as I had these documents on me and in ten minutes walked out with a bank account.
Mark, never panic.  You will be told loads of silly things about living here. This forum, unlike another I have visited, has people who know what they're talking about. I've benefited hugely from advice given by many posters here.
So....if in doubt, hit the keyboard


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## mrypg9

Oh, and after a fairly short period of having a 'good' account here they could if they wished apply for sterling and euro accounts with an offshore branch of a UK bank. These accounts are not just for the rich and criminal - you can open an account with as little as 100 euros or £100 and you get euro and sterling debit and credit cards, which is handy for visits to the UK and Gibraltar.
As I wrote earlier, you do need a fair amount of documentation to do that but it's worth it.

P.S. I wish this site wasn't so interesting.....I keep coming in from the pool to see what's new, dammit:ranger:


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## JBODEN

Mark, put the following into google search 'national debt helpline' or try the following URL's
UK IVA Debt Advice | Insolvency Help
National Debtline – Free, Confidential Debt Advice – Call 0808 808 4000

Maybe you might get some free professional advice


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## markfuengirola

Mrypg9, Jboden, Sue,

Thanks yet again for such sound advice, this is the best forum I have ever used or had knowledge of and will be blogging it like mad. It really is superb. You all know so much and it's all really sound advice !
My parents and I have actually got our NIE numbers through our lawyer when we were in Spain last in May so I'm hoping opening an account shouldn't be a problem. 
I have ANOTHER question for you (sorry) Can my parents pay cheques into a Spanish account in Pounds Sterling or do cheques have to be in Euros ? They do not know what to do with their UK funds when the time comes to put them into a Spanish account. I probably sound incredibly thick but I promised them I'd get all the info for them (which you folk are supplying superbly)
You are literally life savers !
Mark


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## Suenneil

markfuengirola said:


> Mrypg9, Jboden, Sue,
> 
> Thanks yet again for such sound advice, this is the best forum I have ever used or had knowledge of and will be blogging it like mad. It really is superb. You all know so much and it's all really sound advice !
> My parents and I have actually got our NIE numbers through our lawyer when we were in Spain last in May so I'm hoping opening an account shouldn't be a problem.
> I have ANOTHER question for you (sorry) Can my parents pay cheques into a Spanish account in Pounds Sterling or do cheques have to be in Euros ? They do not know what to do with their UK funds when the time comes to put them into a Spanish account. I probably sound incredibly thick but I promised them I'd get all the info for them (which you folk are supplying superbly)
> You are literally life savers !
> Mark


Well personally I would use a currency company for the transfer. You will get a better rate of exchange than you would from high street banks, and the majority of companies absorb any transfer fees too - so if its a largish amount it can save you quite a bit.

We have a guy on here who works for one of them - but Im not allowed to actively promote  so I would just say you could try Currencies Direct, Hifx, Moneycorp etc etc to name but a few!

Sue :ranger:


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## mrypg9

I'd do the same. When I received a cheque earlier this week in sterling I sent it to my offshore sterling account as a Spanish bank will accept it into a sterling account if you have set one up with your Spanish bank but they will charge you for so doing. I was asked for £20 per cheque from my Czech bank - that's the main reason I got an offshore account.
If you look online for advice about IVAs etc make sure you are using a FREE site. The best is the UK Government insolvency advice site. Some look as if they are free but they will make a charge for their advice in guiding you through the procedures.


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## JBODEN

From my past Banking experience if you ask the o'seas Bank to clear GBP funds and then convert into EU you will probably end up having to pay them the equivalent of the National Debt {). 
Firstly it will take a couple of weeks for the chq to go from the local Branch to HQ then their HQ will mail it to the HQ of the appropriate UK Bank. It, in turn, will pass it down to the local Branch of the payer. Once the chq is cleared funds (GBP) can be transferred back electronically. All along the line there will be commission charges to pay to the paying & recieving Banks (they have to make a living as well) and, finally you will get a stupid rate of exchange Eu vs GB


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## Suenneil

Suenneil said:


> Well personally I would use a currency company for the transfer. You will get a better rate of exchange than you would from high street banks, and the majority of companies absorb any transfer fees too - so if its a largish amount it can save you quite a bit.
> 
> We have a guy on here who works for one of them - but Im not allowed to actively promote  so I would just say you could try Currencies Direct, Hifx, Moneycorp etc etc to name but a few!
> 
> Sue :ranger:


I forgot to say Mark - just in case you arent familiar with the process (you may be ) because the currency companies "buy" in bulk so get a better rate than you or I would - you pay your sterling to them to buy the euros - giving them the bank details of where you want the euros to go and they transfer the money..... Ive now realised Im talking to you like you are simple  and thats not my intention honestly!

Im shutting up now - it must be because its Friday afternoon!

Sue


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## markfuengirola

I didn't get that impression at all Sue. Although I _can_ be simple (generally after a few vodkas) !

Good news, I have discovered that the Halifax in the UK do bank accounts for people without credit scoring AND they have Banco Halifax in Spain designed for ex pats in mind all of which you can arrange quite easily from the UK, so I guess the bank panic is (I _hope_) over.
Although I am finding the currency advice invaluable and will be doing as advised regarding that !
Again have a super weekend
I'm sure you will, it's FREEZING and very windy here (again, Vodka _may_ have to get involved)
Mark


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## mrypg9

markfuengirola said:


> I didn't get that impression at all Sue. Although I _can_ be simple (generally after a few vodkas) !
> 
> Good news, I have discovered that the Halifax in the UK do bank accounts for people without credit scoring
> Mark


Whilst sitting on the Tube in London earlier this year I saw an advert for credit cards you can get without a credit reference. You pay a sum of money into the card account and withdraw it as and when. A kind of preloading, I suppose.


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