# Spanish moving to the UK



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Out of interest, two Spanish chaps came into my shop this evening. (I was surprised at how much Spanish I can still speak). Anyway, I asked them if they were in England for a holiday, no they were here to work. They were something to do with metal/iron workers??? They came from somewhere north of Madrid, but had been looking for work in the south (Benalmadena was mentioned cos thats where I lived), but found none, they said they were desperate so came to England and had indeed found work and were pleasantly surprised at the pay (mucho denero), the conditions and their employment contract. Altho they said the English are miserable and stressed all the time. They had arrived in February, so obviously hadnt liked the weather.

Their words were "Spain is finished, Europe has picked it up and thrown it down"!! They wanted to go back but were arranging for their families to move to the UK

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Out of interest, two Spanish chaps came into my shop this evening. (I was surprised at how much Spanish I can still speak). Anyway, I asked them if they were in England for a holiday, no they were here to work. They were something to do with metal/iron workers??? They came from somewhere north of Madrid, but had been looking for work in the south (Benalmadena was mentioned cos thats where I lived), but found none, they said they were desperate so came to England and had indeed found work and were pleasantly surprised at the pay (mucho denero), the conditions and their employment contract. Altho they said the English are miserable and stressed all the time. They had arrived in February, so obviously hadnt liked the weather.
> 
> Their words were "Spain is finished, Europe has picked it up and thrown it down"!! They wanted to go back but were arranging for their families to move to the UK
> 
> Jo xxx


**************

Well, I think that is interesting - possibly the most interesting post of the year. It does actually just back up what most of us have been saying for a long time now. This, along with leedsgutsum's post on the _mechanic in Benalmadena _thread and various posts on the _Need help_ thread and_ News in Spain July 2012_ recently, should be churned out and memorised in Job Centres around the UK. Things are bad in the UK, but better weather doesn't bring more job opportunities, so Spain is really not the place to be looking. And if you find a job in Spain, please hand it in to the nearest police station 'cos there's probably a Spaniard somewhere looking for it.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

> The slow drain is not so slow anymore: between January and June, 40,625 Spaniards left the country, a 44.2 percent rise from the same period last year, according to population estimates released by the National Statistics Institute (INE). Another 228,890 foreigners left at the same time.
> 
> ... Regarding the background and destination of the Spaniards who go abroad, official data provide very little information, and completely omit education levels. What we do know is that there is a majority of young adults, especially between 28 and 45 years of age; there are also quite a few children: over 8,000 aged two to eight. Other European countries are the preferred destinations,* especially Britain (7,756 Spaniards last year), *followed by France (5,264) and Germany (4,408). In the Americas, the destinations were the USA (5,041), Ecuador (4,182), Venezuela (3,033) and Argentina (2,931).


Not coming to America: young Spaniards now seek "German dream" | In English | EL PAÍS


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I found them interesting on so many levels. Yes, the work thing, they felt they were getting a big salary compared to Spain, (they are now also eligible for child allowance from the UK for their children), they liked the fact that their contracts meant that they were legal and applicable for all the financial and social benefits in the UK, they were organising bringing their families over and basically doing all the things that us UK expats do when we move to Spain. 

It made me realise again, how much more secure and easier things are in the UK. People in the UK moan and complain about "foreigners" coming over and taking their jobs - well when that happens in the UK, those unemployed at least receive unemployment benefits indefinitely. Yet Brits go over to Spain and take jobs from existing expats and Spanish without a thought, but those whose jobs they take, dont get the same level of financial aid - if at all!

The weather thing and the attitude of the indigenous people in the UK is well documented and obvious, but again this proves that sunshine and a relaxed lifestyle isnt important without an income.

Their comment about Europe, well these guys werent politicians, so perhaps werent making informed comments as such, but that is obviously how the "man on the street" in Spain views the EU!!?????

Jo xxxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

From reading the papers and talking to people here I think most Spaniards still think the EU will step in and save Spain in the end. They blame Merkel and successive Spanish governments for the current mess. But there is a growing minority who think Spain should pull out of the EU.


----------



## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

I think we need to be careful of stereotyping. Not all Brits moan about foreigners coming and stealing jobs. In fact, in Scotland, we have had a massive influx of Eastern Europeans in the last 5 years. I have rented properties to these people and would far rather deal with a foreigner who wants to work rather than a Brit unemployed through choice. I am surprised more Spanish people dont leave Spain in the current climate to seek work, however I am not surprised they are reluctant to surrender their weather and lifestyle. 

These countries cannot expect the rest of the EU to 'save' them. When I look around a lot of the places I have holidayed recently (Tenerife, Costa del Sol, even Lanzarote to a certain extent) and see all the empty housing I am amazed that nobody foresaw what was coming. There can never have realistically been enough of a market for all of that housing. I also on my recent trip saw plenty of people (mostly Spanish) out enjoying themselves so the question 'where did all the money go or where is it all going' begs an answer. Serious mismanagement or corruption has gone on somewhere. Why should the rest of Europe pick up the tab?


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> From reading the papers and talking to people here I think most Spaniards still think the EU will step in and save Spain in the end. They blame Merkel and successive Spanish governments for the current mess. But there is a growing minority who think Spain should pull out of the EU.


There are here many who think that the Canary Islands should be independent and not part of Spain.

Prior to the recent European interference, the Canaries were the only province in Spain that appeared to be pulling out of the recession.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> From reading the papers and talking to people here I think most Spaniards still think the EU will step in and save Spain in the end. They blame Merkel and successive Spanish governments for the current mess. But there is a growing minority who think Spain should pull out of the EU.


cue Mary...


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

chica escocesa said:


> I think we need to be careful of stereotyping.


I think you're right!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Yossa said:


> cue Mary...


Well, as long as she doesn't think it's my own opinion and start putting me right! I¡m only reporting what I've heard or read.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hepa said:


> There are here many who think ....


That sounds very German Hepa!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The whole EU project has imo been derailed by the free market project and the single currency, free market of finance, goods, labour, which is an essential part of neo-liberalism.
As I see it we are all to blame to some extent. Once the adoption of the euro allowed cheap credit, the Greek Government funded its bloated and underproductive public sector with it, the Irish and Spanish people and companies went on a construction boom and German banks were happy to lend.
You can't separate those who were prudent from those who were extravagant ....the whole country has to suffer.
You can't blame Germany which through following a prudent economic policy has created a prosperous private sector and from the ensuing revenue a more than basic social wage and avoided the nightmare of inflation.....just as Spaniards remember the horrors of the Civil War (which is why talk of revolution is armchair politics) so Germans remember inflation and what it brought not only to Germany but to Europe.
Now we're like hamsters on a wheel..we can't escape from the consequences of the free market policies all European mainstream parties eagerly embraced. All European states need growth....but borrow to fund job creation and the market takes fright and yields soar to unsustainable heights..as with Spain today.
I didn't think this a year ago but I now believe that the peripheral southern EU states should plan now for an orderly exit from the eurozone.
It is inevitable that Spain will need a bail-out. The tax take is down, borrowing costs are high and you can only squeeze people to a point.
If that happens there maybe is a case for the Government to resign and a Government of National Unity be formed.

But I don't go in for all this German-bashing. There is still a whiff of rivalry going back to 1870 in some jingoists...remember Nicholas Ridley? Germany is and will always be the strongest nation state in continental Europe. It has earned its position with sensible moderate social and economic policies, it has stayed out of foreign wars and is one of Europe's leading nations for active citizen participation.
It's understandable that the average German taxpayer resents paying the bills for Greeks who retire at fifty, Spanish construction companies that took the money and went bust and Irish property speculators.
But if they want to keep their northern eurozone intact, they'll have to dig deep into their pockets.
As Mrs. T. once said: 'TINA'.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

ta-da!

I shall rename my handle to Mystic Meg for my uncanny ability to predict the future...


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chica escocesa said:


> I think we need to be careful of stereotyping. Not all Brits moan about foreigners coming and stealing jobs. In fact, in Scotland, we have had a massive influx of Eastern Europeans in the last 5 years. I have rented properties to these people and would far rather deal with a foreigner who wants to work rather than a Brit unemployed through choice.


Stereotypes should always be recognised for what they are. They are rarely useful to supporting an argument and are often detrimental to communication.



> I am surprised more Spanish people dont leave Spain in the current climate to seek work, however I am not surprised they are reluctant to surrender their weather and lifestyle.


I think there is already a large number of Spaniards who are trying to get enough money together to leave Spain, or have actually left. However, one thing is holding them back - where to go? Many countries are better off than Spain, but how many are actually in a position to offer work to immigrants? Not a lot. I posted a while ago about this and I think in Europe Switzerland was asking for workers, and Germany for engineers and qualified people. Further afield there was New Zealand...


> These countries cannot expect the rest of the EU to 'save' them. When I look around a lot of the places I have holidayed recently (Tenerife, Costa del Sol, even Lanzarote to a certain extent) and see all the empty housing I am amazed that nobody foresaw what was coming. There can never have realistically been enough of a market for all of that housing. I also on my recent trip saw plenty of people (mostly Spanish) out enjoying themselves so the question 'where did all the money go or where is it all going' begs an answer. Serious mismanagement or corruption has gone on somewhere. Why should the rest of Europe pick up the tab?


For all the Spanish that are unemployed, there is still a majority, of older people at least (not so for the under 26's) that are employed. Thank goodness they are spending their money within in Spain. Let them have a holiday!
I think all of Spain knows about huge corruption cases that have gone on, and this is corruption that has gone on for years and years. As you say, it was obvious to everyone that over building was happening, and illegal builds were being allowed. And what were we supposed to do about it? Complain to the town hall and its politicians that were all in on the deal and up to their necks in dodgy deals.
Maybe the rest of Europe shouldn't "pick up the tab", I don't know, but believe me, the Joe on the street is paying for it, and big time. OH has had his salary cut *three* times so far. My tax goes up from 15% to 21% in August. Vat in hair dressers goes up 13% in September. How many cinemas, an industry already hit hard by the crisis, will be able to carry on after their prices rise (also by 13% I believe) in September etc etc. Many say that the Spanish pass the buck and don't take responsibility for their irresponsible spending in the past. Well I didn't spend irresponsibly, the politicians did!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Yossa said:


> ta-da!
> 
> I shall rename my handle to Mystic Meg for my uncanny ability to predict the future...


'Predicting' something that is as regular as clockwork, as the saying goes, requires no special talent, though...


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> 'Predicting' something that is as regular as clockwork, as the saying goes, requires no special talent, though...


Ssshhh, don`t spoil it for others!


----------



## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Sorry, did somebody mention Germany staying out of wars? Dodgy territory lol!!!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky;850606
Well I didn't spend irresponsibly said:


> Some regional and local politicians did but to be fair to poor old Zappy he didn't borrow until the crisis hit and the welfare bill rose.
> 
> I didn't borrow or spend irresponsibly....I hate owing money and always pay off my cards in total when the bill arrives each month.
> 
> ...


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

chica escocesa said:


> Sorry, did somebody mention Germany staying out of wars? Dodgy territory lol!!!


Not at all. Since the inception of the EU, indeed since 1945, Germany has been one of the most pacifist nation states in Europe. 

If you want to go back to German reunification in 1870, its record in terms of number of wars engaged in since then is two.....both of which might well have been avoided if a more prudent diplomatic course had been embarked on in each case. If Britain and France had taken a stronger stand against Hitler when he marched into the Rhineland in 1936 it's possible that the whole Nazi project would have collapsed like a house of cards. Not having the vocal support of sections of the Tory Party and the Rothermere press might have helped too.

How many wars has Britain been involved in since 1870? How many times did New Labour engage in military action? Not enough fingers to count on.

We are an aggressively militaristic nation although we don't like to think of ourselves like that. A student of mine in Prague once said 'Of course you are an aggressive people. You had the greatest Empire the world has seen. You do not win such empires by being mild and passive.'


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> We are an aggressively militaristic nation although we don't like to think of ourselves like that. A student of mine in Prague once said 'Of course you are an aggressive people. You had the greatest Empire the world has seen. You do not win such empires by being mild and passive.'


By "we" you mean Britain presumably. Spain had an empire too.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Not at all. Since the inception of the EU, indeed since 1945, Germany has been one of the most pacifist nation states in Europe.
> 
> If you want to go back to German reunification in 1870, its record in terms of number of wars engaged in since then is two.....both of which might well have been avoided if a more prudent diplomatic course had been embarked on in both cases. If Britain and France had taken a stronger stand against Hitler when he marched into the Rhineland in 1936 it's possible that the whole Nazi project would have collapsed like a house of cards. Not having the vocal support of sectiomns of the Tory Party and the Rothermere press might have helped too.
> 
> ...


You should read Modris Eksteins´ "Rites of Spring" in which he brings quite an odd, yet interesting, background into the outbreak of WWI - and yes, Stravinsky, composer of the _Rites of Spring_ and Nijinsky, famous ballet dancer, are all tied into his complex theory. As is unseasonally good weather in Europe prior to the outbreak. Don´t agree with a lot of it, but it is an interesting take on the reasons for the outbreak of WWI.

:focus:


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Some regional and local politicians did but to be fair to poor old Zappy he didn't borrow until the crisis hit and the welfare bill rose.
> 
> I didn't borrow or spend irresponsibly....I hate owing money and always pay off my cards in total when the bill arrives each month.
> 
> ...


Nor Zappy, nor Aznar before him did anything to stop mad building projects for example. Nor did they do anything to stop banks and other financial institutions offering their customers products which were too good to be true. It's the customer's choice many say - nobody forced you into taking that mortgage. True enough, but if my financial advisor (my bank) tells me this is a good choice for you, who am I to say no? 
If Rajoy has done anything to redress these problems he's only done it because he has been forced to react.
We are all in this together is true, but who got us here in the first place shouldn't and can't be forgotten; nor should it be forgiven IMO. 
However, it will be unfortunately. 2 pretty big building projects have been approved in this town. I don't know any local people who agree with this, but the ayuntamiento has pushed them through. The local Green group will protest. They'll get little support. It'll drag on for a couple of years and then BINGO 100 new houses. History repeats itself


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chica escocesa said:


> I think we need to be careful of stereotyping.


 I dont know the exact statistics of those who feel aggrieved by "foreigners taking jobs" I dont think it or care (the best man for the job I say), but it is a common cry in the UK! I believe its also a cry heard in Spain. But lets not split hairs. Stereotyping, racism, racial awareness, acknowledging cultural differences - call it what you will - it happens and it aint going anytime soon!

The point is that I have now witnessed personally and spoken to people who are from Spain and have come to the UK t5o find work cos they cant find any in spain and are desperate. It should make wannabe expats think about their dreams and the reality!!!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I can only describe the Euro and the E.U., as a ship adrift in a storm, without a skipper, where no one person is willing or able to take the helm, set a course into the wind and ride out the gale.

Ships in such a situation inevitably are grounded on the rocks.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I dont know the exact statistics of those who feel aggrieved by "foreigners taking jobs" I dont think it or care (the best man for the job I say), but it is a common cry in the UK! I believe its also a cry heard in Spain. But lets not split hairs. Stereotyping, racism, racial awareness, acknowledging cultural differences - call it what you will - it happens and it aint going anytime soon!


As I said
_Stereotypes should always be recognised for what they are. They are rarely useful to supporting an argument and are often detrimental to communication._
But exist they do and can't be ignored!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Nor Zappy, nor Aznar before him did anything to stop mad building projects for example. Nor did they do anything to stop banks and other financial institutions offering their customers products which were too good to be true. It's the customer's choice many say - nobody forced you into taking that mortgage. True enough, but if my financial advisor (my bank) tells me this is a good choice for you, who am I to say no?
> If Rajoy has done anything to redress these problems he's only done it because he has been forced to react.
> We are all in this together is true, but who got us here in the first place shouldn't and can't be forgotten; nor should it be forgiven IMO.
> However, it will be unfortunately. 2 pretty big building projects have been approved in this town. I don't know any local people who agree with this, but the ayuntamiento has pushed them through. The local Green group will protest. They'll get little support. It'll drag on for a couple of years and then BINGO 100 new houses. History repeats itself


The problem was that no state government could refuse the inflow of cheap credit. 
That's down to the Single European Act. 
I agree that governments should have regulated the financial sector....that's the root of all our present troubles...all that deregulation and the invention of complex financial products such as derivatives, hedge funds and so on. But as I keep banging on, they were all sold on free market ideology.
And people voted for them.

Our little village has just learned that some Saudi prince has permission to build over 1000 dwellings on land on the edge of the village....This would double our current population and severely strain the infrastructure...as I write I scent the sweet odour of the sewage works....

Seems we'll never learn.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Yossa said:


> You should read Modris Eksteins´ "Rites of Spring" in which he brings quite an odd, yet interesting, background into the outbreak of WWI - and yes, Stravinsky, composer of the _Rites of Spring_ and Nijinsky, famous ballet dancer, are all tied into his complex theory. As is unseasonally good weather in Europe prior to the outbreak. Don´t agree with a lot of it, but it is an interesting take on the reasons for the outbreak of WWI.
> 
> :focus:


That sounds interesting.....where can I learn more? Have you read A.J.P.Taylor's 'Origins of the First World War'?

Whilst it's true that Germany -which of course didn't exist prior to 1870 - was an aggressor nation in two devastating wars each with dramatic consequences, if you consider how many times Britain has been an aggressor nation since then, it's truly staggering. Suez and Iraq are the two most glaring examples....but the Boer War, all the colonial wars, Korea...

Think of all the 'low intensity' wars as well as the major conflicts. Since that Czech pointed out how aggressive we are perceived as, I started noticing things....how often do you see uniformed soldiers, sailors, airmen at sporting events, say? Then there's the 
OTC and the various Cadet Corps.


----------



## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Our little village has just learned that some Saudi prince has permission to build over 1000 dwellings on land on the edge of the village....This would double our current population and severely strain the infrastructure...as I write I scent the sweet odour of the sewage works....
> 
> Seems we'll never learn.


About 4 years ago, a notice appeared on land on the road leading out of the top of our village, stating that the land had been purchased for new homes. The sign shows pictures of dream homes, with pools, a play area etc. All very nice.
Men in tractors spent a couple of days flattening the land and dumping earth in a heap at the edge of the plot. And then nothing happened.

The land has remained unused since then, with no sign of builders, surveyors, architects, etc, and the pretty sign is now decidedly weather-beaten. The area is now used by the local kids as an extra play area. They have even erected goal posts and a basketball net.

I wouldn't worry too much until it starts happening.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> That sounds interesting.....where can I learn more? Have you read A.J.P.Taylor's 'Origins of the First World War'?
> 
> Whilst it's true that Germany -which of course didn't exist prior to 1870 - was an aggressor nation in two devastating wars each with dramatic consequences, if you consider how many times Britain has been an aggressor nation since then, it's truly staggering. Suez and Iraq are the two most glaring examples....but the Boer War, all the colonial wars, Korea...
> 
> ...


This is a summary of The Rite of Spring.

You raise an interesting point in the last paragraph, especially about sport, but sadly they are not armed, which would add an interesting dimension to a Premier League footy match with primadonnas rolling about on the grass feigning injury. Reminds me of a clip in Micmacs (from director of Amelie) where the main character day dreams about Anti-personnel devices "hidden" in the football pitch by the teams sponsors, a major "defence" organisation.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Our little village has just learned that some Saudi prince has permission to build over 1000 dwellings on land on the edge of the village....This would double our current population and severely strain the infrastructure...as I write I scent the sweet odour of the sewage works....
> 
> Seems we'll never learn.


We've had one of those hanging over our heads for about 10 years as well as the other 2 projects I mentioned, minus the Saudi Prince. The last thing that stopped it was the crisis...


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

This link to Google Maps, shows what is on the outskirts of our village - nothing more than a glorified go-kart track, albeit a very costly one, which is what several of us actually put forward as an idea for revenue generation to Rita, our mayor. 

I won`t repeat what she said in reply...


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> We've had one of those hanging over our heads for about 10 years as well as the other 2 projects I mentioned, minus the Saudi Prince. The last thing that stopped it was the crisis...


This was announced a month ago. The land is currently used for dog-walking, amorous encounters, rubbish-dumping..


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Nor Zappy, nor Aznar before him did anything to stop mad building projects for example. Nor did they do anything to stop banks and other financial institutions offering their customers products which were too good to be true. It's the customer's choice many say - nobody forced you into taking that mortgage. True enough, but if my financial advisor (my bank) tells me this is a good choice for you, who am I to say no?


I think we are only just realising how little power central government had/has over what the autonomous communities do with their money, and even less over local planning decisions. And the banks are a law unto themselves, my friend at the Banco Popular is still being told to approve 100% mortgages of €200,000 to young couples! So maybe it's not fair to put _all _the blame on Bambi and the Weasel.


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> Out of interest, two Spanish chaps came into my shop this evening. (I was surprised at how much Spanish I can still speak). Anyway, I asked them if they were in England for a holiday, no they were here to work. They were something to do with metal/iron workers??? They came from somewhere north of Madrid, but had been looking for work in the south (Benalmadena was mentioned cos thats where I lived), but found none, they said they were desperate so came to England and had indeed found work and were pleasantly surprised at the pay (mucho denero), the conditions and their employment contract. Altho they said the English are miserable and stressed all the time. They had arrived in February, so obviously hadnt liked the weather.
> 
> Their words were "Spain is finished, Europe has picked it up and thrown it down"!! They wanted to go back but were arranging for their families to move to the UK
> 
> Jo xxx


Haven't read Much of this thread as i guess it is a lot of whinging. 

But maybe if they think that all the English (didn't they mean British? We are not encouraged to say English anymore someone should explain that to them) are miserable they should go home to the lovely jolley Spanish friends  (very few of whom I saw during the last few weeks on my hols). How come it is fine on an Ex-pats forum for members to constantly dis the Country that they have in the main turned their backs on, but still seem to spend all their lives talking about ? 

Whoops oh no 'life is too good in the UK' so we will just take the jobs & money that your economy can actually still (just about) manage to provide. I so cannot wait untiil this government stops paying child benefit to folk who then send it abroad as has been talked about, - an yes yes,don't give me Shakesperes Sonnets I know they are paying NI or at least I hope they are, but when it was set up it was to help people with childcare costs in the UK as at that time the UK was a really expensive place to bring kids up in . Blah, Blah.

Wonder how they will get on sending their kids to Uni here at 3 x £9000 for student loans and then another £30,000 living expenses, would imagine it wont seem quite so great to them when they are trying to get their kids into Warwick or Sheffied lol still they can always get £53 JSA as their parents will be well schooled in the 'nanny state' that so many ex-pats purport to deplore.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tilley said:


> Haven't read Much of this thread as i guess it is a lot of whinging.
> 
> But maybe if they think that all the English are miserable they should go home to the lovely jolley Spanish friends  (very few of whom I saw during the last few weeks on my hols). How come it is fine on an Ex-pats forum for members to constantly dis the Country that they have in the main turned their backs on, but still seem to spend all their lives talking about ?
> 
> ...


 Not much whinging - til now lol!!!!!!!!!!!! Mainly politics!!!

Since living in spain I can see the benefits of a nanny state. I dont like the fact its exploited but I like the fact its there. Yes it seems unfair that "foreigners" can reap the benefits, but then we reap the benefits of what Spain has to offer its people when we live there - shame it aint as good I guess!!?

spain has the weather, the UK has the security - its a trade off and we all have choices!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

I would never ever use the term "foreigners" it sounjds slightly offensive to everyone, I'm not sure why. I think some Countrys don't even have an equivalent word they use the term visitors or maybe guests I'ms ure one of my Muslim friends told me that it just doesn't exist in her language. I do think people who emigrate just for the weather must be very shallow in their nature, OK it could be seen as an added bonus but surely they have the ability to do a little more critical thinking than that? Most have to know how they will live and form a quality of life for themselves that is at least comperable to the one they are leaving. Its just common sense.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tilley said:


> I would never ever use the term "foreigners" it sounjds slightly offensive to everyone, I'm not sure why. I think some Countrys don't even have an equivalent word they use the term visitors or maybe guests


Heck!! *"guests"* then! 

Jo xx


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Extranjero, foreigner, guest, visitor? they have visitors in Cornwall.

Stop faffing around, I am a foreigner or extranjero is how my local friends refer to me, I always will be a foreigner, I quite like being a foreigner, it has its advantages. Guest visitor no I'm here for good, here is home.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hepa said:


> Extranjero, foreigner, guest, visitor? they have visitors in Cornwall.
> 
> Stop faffing around, I am a foreigner or extranjero is how my local friends refer to me, I always will be a foreigner, I quite like being a foreigner, it has its advantages. Guest visitor no I'm here for good, here is home.


guiri????? :tape: 

Jo xxx


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jojo said:


> guiri????? :tape:
> 
> Jo xxx


That word doesn't seem to be used here Jo, they call Spaniards Godos though, and last night I was called a kabron, the reply was, "Si a veces pero no mucho," but is all in fun, if you bowl a few, one has to bat a few.


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Hepa said:


> I can only describe the Euro and the E.U., as a ship adrift in a storm, without a skipper, where no one person is willing or able to take the helm, set a course into the wind and ride out the gale.
> 
> Ships in such a situation inevitably are grounded on the rocks.


Isn't the answer then for the passengers to throw the captain & crew over the side & rectify the problem themselves?

"Wonder how they will get on sending their kids to Uni here at 3 x £9000 for student loans and then another £30,000 living expenses, would imagine it wont seem quite so great to them when they are trying to get their kids into Warwick or Sheffied lol still they can always get £53 JSA as their parents will be well schooled in the 'nanny state' that so many ex-pats purport to deplore. "

It won't apply to them as they would be regarded as 'overseas students' by virtue of their Spanish nationality ! 



Our eldest daughter moved back to the UK in 2006 & works in the NHS. When first back she commented that it was very rare to hear anyone speaking Spanish & if you did it was normally an older patient in hospital; whereas now she says that they are inundated with Spanish speakers, patients & staff & when out & about Spanish can be heard almost everywhere.

The concensus of opinion is that there is approaching 100,000 spaniards now living & working in the Uk . On some spanish forums they are now complaining that the 'Españoletas' ( apparently this is how they refer to south-americans who hold spanish nationality/residency) coming over to the UK & taking jobs that should be theirs! :lol: :rofl:


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm _*la inglesa rubia*_ - certainly not _*la británica rubia*_ _que da clases de español a los extranjeros_ - that's what most Spanish people I know around here call me - unless they know me well enough to know my name

_extranjero_ could I guess be loosely translated as 'stranger' - but really it means 'foreign'

we ARE foreigners, immigrants, expats, whetever you want to call us

but that doesn't mean Spain can't be HOME

wer choose to live here for various reasons - just as the Spanish are now choosing (or maybe not actually _choosing_) to live elsewhere in Europe or even the rest of the world for their own reasons

there is certainly more chance of work in the UK - so why shouldn't they go there - they have the _right _to -


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Isn't the answer then for the passengers to throw the captain & crew over the side & rectify the problem themselves?

Yes quite, but just who is the Captain, Jose Manuel Barroso, or the other one Van what's his name, perhaps Mrs. Merkel ?

There isn't a single person in charge and that is why we flounder.


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Hepa said:


> Isn't the answer then for the passengers to throw the captain & crew over the side & rectify the problem themselves?
> 
> Yes quite, but just who is the Captain, Jose Manuel Barroso, or the other one Van what's his name, perhaps Mrs. Merkel ?
> 
> There isn't a single person in charge and that is why we flounder.


Van Rompoy. 
To be on the safe side lets throw them all over . Better safe than sorry !


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Van Rompoy.
> To be on the safe side lets throw them all over . Better safe than sorry !


Good idea!!


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

gus-lopez said:


> Isn't the answer then for the passengers to throw the captain & crew over the side & rectify the problem themselves?
> 
> "Wonder how they will get on sending their kids to Uni here at 3 x £9000 for student loans and then another £30,000 living expenses, would imagine it wont seem quite so great to them when they are trying to get their kids into Warwick or Sheffied lol still they can always get £53 JSA as their parents will be well schooled in the 'nanny state' that so many ex-pats purport to deplore. "
> 
> ...



Dont understand that as the overseas students pay the same at my DD's Uni as UK ones , and the living expenses are the same for everyone regardless of nationality. A friend of DD was offered but declined a place at Oxford Brookes, 85% of the students are from overseas unfortunatley most of them seemed to think they had got into Oxford lol.

A year at Uni in Spain was only the equivalent of £4000 which seemed like a bargain in comparision, but then I guess it depends on what they want to do I suppose.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

Taking your ship analogy through to its most obvious conclusion...

You`ve thrown the skipper and the crew overboard and now, none of you ******s has a clue as to how to pilot said vessel through the waters: calm, stormy or otherwise. Obviously it all looks fairly easy from the comfort of your deckchair, so it can`t be that difficult to manage a little old ship. After all, we`re a seafaring nation and all that, dear boy. 

Obviously, someone will have to be promoted from within to lead you all, since you threw the people who managed the vessel overboard and with it, all of the knowledge and experience required to manage such a vessel. Aaaah ******. It goes without saying that there will be disagreements as to who this would be, cueing the usual madness and mayhem. Furthermore, who`s going to bring us our dinner and where is that nice young chap with the gin n tonics, that normally comes around this time of day...

That`s the trouble with analogies...

I`ll get my coat. Mines the one with the lifejacket and EPIRB in it.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I was once called "_la señora de afuera_". I like that, it sounds much more romantic than _extranjera_.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> It won't apply to them as they would be regarded as 'overseas students' by virtue of their Spanish nationality !


I think EU citizens resident in the UK pay the same fees and are entitled to the same loans and grants as British students.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

My last ship was a tramp steamer, no passengers, no gin and tonic. Not all ships are cruise liners!


----------

