# Education



## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Could anyone tell me how to apply to be a teacher inSpain? I understand there is an exam etc., but to which ministry would one contact initially? Also, is it a centralised body or would one have to go through the process for each province?
I am on an i pad this week so find it a drag to hunt the net for info and I am sure some of you will have the answers.
Thank you


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> Could anyone tell me how to apply to be a teacher inSpain? I understand there is an exam etc., but to which ministry would one contact initially? Also, is it a centralised body or would one have to go through the process for each province?
> I am on an i pad this week so find it a drag to hunt the net for info and I am sure some of you will have the answers.
> Thank you


Justina, 
first question would be does the person wanting to teach speak a language of Spain fluently?


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Justina,
> first question would be does the person wanting to teach speak a language of Spain fluently?


Yes, she is a Mexican/Brit with a degree in Mathematics and with her pgce at the IoE at University of London under her belt at the moment doing her probationary year in London. She speaks French, English and Spanish which is her native language.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> Yes, she is a Mexican/Brit with a degree in Mathematics and with her pgce at the IoE at University of London under her belt at the moment doing her probationary year in London. She speaks French, English and Spanish which is her native language.
> Thanks for taking the time to reply.


No problem!
So, I think what she has to do is get in touch with the education authority for the area where she wants to go. This is according to the comunidad. She can look here for information
Empleo Publico y Oposiciones Profesor

Temario Oposiciones Cuerpo de Maestros 2013 y Programacion Didactica | CEN

And the BOE always has the latest info.

Things to have in mind are that the conditions are always changing, especially now with all the cuts

You have to do the exam to be a teacher in the state system, but the exams are not held every year, for every subject, in every region. The frequency depends on the subject. My husband teaches Business Administration for example, and there are usually exams every 2 years, but not always.
He has been "Number One " in the list for several years now, but he still hasn't got a permanent place. He's been teaching for about 15 years now...
The fact that he hasn't got a permanent place means that every year/ 2 years he can be sent any where in the comunidad de Madrid to work, which can mean a journey of 200km a day. If you say no, you go to the end of the list...
Your friend would get extra points for her level of English, but she has to have a Cambridge exam or Escuela oficial de Idiomas certificate to prove it.
http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/02/07/pdfs/BOE-A-2012-1825.pdf

PS I think you also have to be "Spanish" to do the exam - something she'll need to check.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Justina said:


> Could anyone tell me how to apply to be a teacher inSpain? I understand there is an exam etc., but to which ministry would one contact initially? Also, is it a centralised body or would one have to go through the process for each province?
> I am on an i pad this week so find it a drag to hunt the net for info and I am sure some of you will have the answers.
> Thank you


If it is to be a teacher within the state system, the method here is you are in open competition with everybody else who wants to be a teacher and you have to take "oposiciones" and you will be competing with thousands of Spaniards. Working for a private academy, you would apply to the academy itself.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Many thanks for the info but you mentioned 200kms per day which seems rather a lot given the size of Madrid. Did you mean 20kms? She would expect to teach in Spanish if she was in the Spanish school system but it does sound a tortuous process. I would also have thought as part of the EU she would have been accepted if she passed all the other requisites, but will check out the links that you have given.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks baldilocks. The trouble with applying directly to schools is that so far this year there aren't that many ads although perhaps after Easter there may be more. She did have an interview for a school in Madrid two weeks ago but got turned down although accodi g to feedback she was a close second. Pity, but there we go.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Justina said:


> Many thanks for the info but you mentioned 200kms per day which seems rather a lot given the size of Madrid. Did you mean 20kms? She would expect to teach in Spanish if she was in the Spanish school system but it does sound a tortuous process. I would also have thought as part of the EU she would have been accepted if she passed all the other requisites, but will check out the links that you have given.


the _communidad de Madrid .............._ so yes, maybe 200km per day


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

One would have to be up before dawn to do that trek.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Justina said:


> One would have to be up before dawn to do that trek.


yep!!

I used to teach English to one of the science teachers who was teaching at the instituto my daughters attend

she lives in our town with her husband & two little children

a few years ago they transferred her to a school at the far reaches of the province - we're in the north of it & she was transferred to somewhere south of the city Alicante (can't exactly remember where)

she could have refused the transfer, and she did in fact appeal it. The appeal failed & it was a case of 'take the job or no job'

she took the job - commuted at first, & yes, left home before dawn for an 8am start 

after a while she rented a room near the school & went home weekends - istr that her mother moved in to look after the kids

she is working a bit nearer home now I understand, but still not back in her home town


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

The British system of applying directly to a school is really quite civilised, isn't it?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

A girl here in the village teaches in Madrid 880 km round trip, needless to say, she doesn't commute.. The Spanish sytem is you get the job, they tell you where, you are going to perform it. Work is always thin on the ground and state employment is pretty much 'job for life' so, if you get a job, you take it and worry about how and when you are going to get there daily, afterwards


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

That must play havoc with a family life although perhaps fine for a single person


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> One would have to be up before dawn to do that trek.


My husband did it for 3 years with his first teaching job.
True story folks!!
Some families end up split up for the school year with this system.
Others end up buying another car to be able to make the journey.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> If it is to be a teacher within the state system, the method here is you are in open competition with everybody else who wants to be a teacher and you have to take "oposiciones" and you will be competing with thousands of Spaniards. Working for a private academy, you would apply to the academy itself.


I am assuming the person in question is _*not*_ hoping to be an English teacher, given her qualifications.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, pesky wesky, she is a maths teacher for secondary and for a levels in London at the moment on her probationary year.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> the _communidad de Madrid .............._ so yes, maybe 200km per day


Exactly.
Possibly more!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> She would expect to teach in Spanish if she was in the Spanish school system but it does sound a tortuous process. I would also have thought as part of the EU she would have been accepted if she passed all the other requisites, but will check out the links that you have given.


I was just thinking about this.
Was the remark about her teaching in Spanish because I said she would be given points for speaking English? I said that because education in Spain is going through a process of becoming "bilingual". I put it in inverted commas because it will only ever be as bilingual as its teachers allow it to be, and the present generation of teachers just do not have the level. The authorities are forcing their staff to become more and more competent by giving credits for having level B1 (first certificate) English. A lot of teachers are having to give their subjects in "English" already, however Maths is usually given in the students native tongue...

I suppose the first step would be to get her qualifications recognised here, which would mean getting in touch with the Ministerio de Educación.
Then, as far as nationality goes, I found some info which says if you are not Spanish, but are a member of the EU 
_deberán acreditar, igualmente, no estar sometidos a san-_
_ción disciplinaria o condena penal que impida, en su _ 
_Estado, el acceso a la función pública_
which I suppose is a police records certificate. Look at page 5/6 for general requirements. Probably a better link than what I gave you before.
http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2007/03/02/pdfs/A08915-08938.pdf

However, as you say, becoming a teacher in the state system is a tortuous process full of Spanish Red Tape. It is also completely nonsensical as a teacher's success has little to do with their teaching ability. And thirdly, education in Spain is in a very bad place now due to the recession. OH's salary has been cut/ frozen 3 times now...Personally, I think she'd do much better concentrating on teaching in a British or International school. See ads from now on in the Guardian and Times Ed Supplement or apply directly to the schools listed here
Welcome to Nabss | Nabss


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks for your time pesky wesky and yes, she is checking the Times Educational Supplement each week and as you say she would be better off with the international schools, and at least miss the ridiculous red tape. I think the criminal report that you refer to is the crb criminal records bureau certificate that all people involved with children must ask for each year. I didn't realise that it was required here but she has had one each year since she started in schools in the UK. I will pass on the nabss link.


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## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

I'd also like to point out that Andalucia does not recognise the Cambridge certificate as proof of English speaking ability for oposiciones - even after we checked with Solvit that that is against European law.
That system is one of the craziest, worst things about Spain. It keeps the very brightest young people out of the labour market for years while they attempt to qualify. The oposiciones are sat after the candidates have supposedly qualified as teachers. I've never understood why they don't just make the teaching qualification much, much harder and thus save thousands of people several years of their lives.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, turtles but think of all those pen pushers inthe dept of education and local county council who would be unemployed. One assumes there must be a reason for teachers waiting for years to get onto the system. It seems to be a bureaucratic mess on an epic scale.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> Yes, turtles but think of all those pen pushers inthe dept of education and local county council who would be unemployed. One assumes there must be a reason for teachers waiting for years to get onto the system. It seems to be a bureaucratic mess on an epic scale.


Well, one of the main reasons is money. The interinos (ones waiting for their permanent place) are paid at a different rate. So, even though the same position may be offered year after year to an interino, suggesting that there is a real need for a teacher, it will not be offered as a permanent post one of the reasons being money


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

And what happens to an interino when he or she gets to pensionable age? Does one just have to rely on the State pension or like the UK one pays into the teachers' pension fund?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> And what happens to an interino when he or she gets to pensionable age? Does one just have to rely on the State pension or like the UK one pays into the teachers' pension fund?


Hmm, I don't know. I'll let you know when OH gets there!

Actually, have been thinking a lot about retirement and getting older recently . My parents are both experiencing problems and even though they have three children, they are still finding things difficult. We went to Orihuela recently and are both more convinced than ever that that is not our scene, but we'll need somewhere cheap.
Asturias maybe???? In the sunny part of Asturias hahahaha!!
Nearer the Spanish family but hopefully not too near...


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Out of curiosity what didn't appeal to you of Orihuela? I am still feeling my way in Spain so particularly enjoy reading about other people's experiences. I am spending this week in Madrid and just love the city. I find it really elegant, accessible, super metro and bus system and just a delight.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> Out of curiosity what didn't appeal to you of Orihuela? I am still feeling my way in Spain so particularly enjoy reading about other people's experiences. I am spending this week in Madrid and just love the city. I find it really elegant, accessible, super metro and bus system and just a delight.


Hope you enjoy Madrid. Was there yesterday in the Thyssen for the impressionists
Impressionism and Open-air Painting. From Corot to Van Gogh. - 2013 | Museo Thyssen
But this one also looked good
Hyperrealism 1967-2012 - Thyssen-Bornemisza Museum
And isn't the metro good - and cheap compared to London, and that's taking into consideration that it's gone up *a lot* in the last year.
Shame about the weather, but better like this than in the summer!

About Orihuela, various things
1. Houses not well constructed. That's not to say that they're going to fall down, but the doors and windows are not so good nor the insulation in general which can be a problem in both summer and winter.
2. In the parts that I saw the houses were very samey. All new build (around 1990's) and very residential. The same colour and construction material.
3. These areas are built for people visiting, not living. Yes there was always a supermarket and a pub, but not schools, a clothes shop, a computer store, a Spanish bar, a shoe repair place. It's much more geared to the short stay visitor, the temporary stay, the person who sooner or later will go home, because this *isn't* home.
4. Lots of narrow streets, not that this made it dark, but you just got the feeling of people all around you all the time.
5. Most people are not Spanish. Maybe like some areas of the UK you might say. That's true, but as I said before, you don't get the feeling that people are really *living* there, and in the UK I do. Perhaps because the areas I'm thinking of in the UK (parts of Birmingham for example) we're talking of families, and they have more involvment with the larger community. People go to work, they do homework, they die...Perhaps it used to be like that in Orihuela, but due to the unemployment problems, people who move here with families soon move back. My friends have rented to several of them.
6. Of course there are many people who live in this area for years, but the great majority are retired and, for the large part, they life their life as they would have done in their country of origin, but with sun and in Spain. They do German/ Danish/ British things, read German/ Danish/ British papers and watch German/ Danish/ British tv. 
7. In the summer too hot and humid. In the winter too cold and uncomfortable in the house.
8. People in the summer. Far too many people in the summer. Too many bodies, too much noise, too much heat!!
9. The area isn't very interesting to me.

BUT, important point...

The few people that I met who were living there (retired from UK/ Ireland) were very happy with their lot. They proudly told me how everyone got on with each other, no great problems with the nationalities (German, English etc I mean, not Spanish!!) Perhaps the feeling that they're all in the same boat. Loved the lifestyle, the pub, the people around them. Had little interest in Spain and the Spanish.

Nevertheless, I know that that is not what I want, especially with a Spanish husband. A Spaniard is like a fish out of water there. You can sometimes struggle to find a Spanish paper, OH wanted to watch a Real Madrid match with his mate and the bars were only showing UK matches.
I speak Spanish. I work and function in this society and have done for a long time. I (almost!) understand how Spain works. I want to retire to Spain, not Britain and not Britian in Spain


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hope you enjoy Madrid. Was there yesterday in the Thyssen for the impressionists
> Impressionism and Open-air Painting. From Corot to Van Gogh. - 2013 | Museo Thyssen
> But this one also looked good
> Hyperrealism 1967-2012 - Thyssen-Bornemisza Museum
> ...


Sorry, one thing very much in favour of Torrevieja, not Orihuela, is the accessibility. My friend uses a scooter for the disabled to get around and finds Torrevieja very "disabled person in scooter" friendly


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Delighted to read your reply and could I ask you more thingies on a pm?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> Delighted to read your reply and could I ask you more thingies on a pm?


OK, but you can ask me on the forum too!

This thread has stuff about other areas and people's thoughts of British areas of Spain too
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...location-expat-communities-3.html#post1106122


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