# What should I do?



## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

I haven't been on this website long however I've been in the PI since 83 and i'm sometimes amazed at the posts on here asking for advice on what should i do when I feel i am being wronged. 

Some may have heard of the term "Under de Saya" but if you have not, i am going to share with you an interesting article below that explains what is Under de Saya. 

The answer to most of the what should i do problems may be in this article when it asks who is the boss??????


https://developmentjournalism.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/under-de-saya/
Under de Saya

Maria Carmel A. Rimpos

There’s a new trend among men today. The usual set-up wherein they are the boss is a thing of the past already. What’s more in today are men who are “under de saya”.

The term under de saya is a slang Filipinos use to describe men who fear women especially those closely related to them, like their mothers or spouses. They follow the orders of their sex counterpart almost instantly without objection. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they tremble in fear. It could probably be just a sign of deep respect.

*Filipinos laugh at men who are under de saya since it is a sign of inferiority.* The notion that men should not subordinate themselves persists, although sometimes, men cannot help but subordinate themselves. Women have proven to become more powerful than men in almost every aspect nowadays.

Academically, girls outperform boys. They participate more actively in school and extracurricular activities. They also tend to graduate with most honors and have a higher possibility to reach and finish college. In “The End of Men”, Hanna Rosin stated females grab the BA degrees 60% of the time.

Financially, women are proven to be independent from men. They earn better and are being promoted more easily than their male counterparts. Rosin adds that corporate performance improves whenever a female seats in a high ranking position. The reason behind this phenomenon is either the ability of women to enhance the firm’s performance or the company’s ability to hire skilled women.

Women changed essentially. They were not the regular women anymore who are expected to be a “father’s daughter” until they marry and be a “husband’s wife”. Compared to the past (which is not so long time ago), women are more liberated. They were not imprisoned only to the four corners of the house.

Under de saya men only prove women empowerment. It illustrates the development of women and their advances to attain gender equality.

But, where they really attaining gender equality? Or are they just pursuing further inequality?

The improvement on the treatment of females shows that there are already changes in society, and society is willing to accept change. It is a major step towards equality among the sexes, but do not assume that the end of gender inequality is near.

While women are getting better statuses, men are not.

The perspective of society on women has transformed, but their expectations on men did not. Women can already be independent from men. They can also excel on a “masculine” field. Men on the other hand should still be independent from women. They should never venture out on “womanly” roles. They should not feel pain. They should not cry.

The general public views the womankind differently from the past, but they look at mankind all the same.

People also put much of their attention on females than on males. Being the oppressed gender in the past, the society believes that women should be given more attention. No body cares about men if they are abused or hurt. Males only respond to this perspective by being nonchalant, which is the reason why they remain silent.

In this world dominated by feminist thinking, men do not have a stand. If the main focus has been on their female counterparts, men think they do not have any option but to keep their pleas hidden.

The women’s movement, feminism initially was created to elevate the status of women. It never meant to deteriorate the opposite sex. Yet, that is what is happening today.

In school, the outperformance of girls led to the underperformance of boys. Boys feel inferior to girls. They feel that they could not be on equal footing as the females. This feeling of inferiority resulted in a higher drop out rates for boys and less number of those who finish their studies.

In the workplace, men suffer more. During the Great Recession, Rosin remarks that the male population suffered the most from the massive layoff because most of the jobs hit were masculine. Even if they would look for new jobs, they could not easily find one since majority of the jobs are given to women. Companies believe that females are more capable than men in doing particular works, like in nurturing and food preparation.

It is very ironic that men used to be the dominant gender, but now they are not. They have lost whatever authority they used to enjoy.

Some feminists may argue that men are not powerless and that they do not feel weakened, but the males may feel otherwise.

What men greatly need now is support.

Women would never have achieved change if it is not for the massive support of the public to their movement. Their fight for change took a very long time, but the effects of their battle are greatly felt in society today.

Men can also bring forth change, just with a little help from the society. If the people could see them in a new light, transformations will not be very hard to achieve.

Actually, males have already created an organization that aims to support men. It is called the Men’s Rights Advocates. It rose from the insecurity of men towards women. It opposes social and legal discrimination on their sex. It intends to change laws and perspectives that greatly favor women.

It is about time for us to look beyond the stereotype of men. We should not just laugh about men who are under de saya because this may only reflect the hardships or the inferiority men are experiencing. Times have changed, so don’t expect individuals will not.

So, who’s the boss?


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

I see this as weak ass men (filipino) giving way to sensible minded women. I do not relinquish the reigns in my house. I have seen the "feminists" work their BS in the US and it is that... BS. Women have their role in society as do men. I look at most filipino males as weak, lazy, malingerers (at best) or leaning towards gay or rarely, someone that I would respect as a "man". I have rarely ever see one that has balls. And if I do meet one I respect him. 

I think that is one of the reasons that some of the sensible minded filipinas are attracted to foreigners. We have common sense, will make a decision, and go with the repercussions. 

How many filipino families have you seen where there was a true patriarch? 

I will never be "under de saya" or I might as well go back to the US. I find that most women respect a man that feels as I do. For one, it gives them security and another it relieves them of making the decisions. My wife actually prefers that I make the decisions unless I am clearly out in the netherworld (or maybe she is making the decisions and just allowing me to come to the same conclusion??)...

bottom line: if you have to ask "who is the boss?" you are behind the power curve and won't get ahead. Be firm, fair and take control of your relationship (don't be an a""hat). In most cases you are older, have more experience and know the pitfalls. Take control and be a man. That is what these women want. You can drink every night till you can't see straight but as long as you are the one paying the bills, keeping the drama down, maintaining a stable lifestyle, and always faithful, these women will respect you and never put you in the position previously described...

just my $0.02.....


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

LOL, my wife and I have been in a continuous power struggle since we met. At times it was kind of fun and we've made it work (til now). Nearly every other person of any nationality that I know who's married to a Filipina is, what we used to call "P-whipped". I find it very similar to Mexico with their matriarchal structure there.

I have told her numerous times that I didn't take orders (especially crappy ones) very well when I was in the Marine Corps and I sure the heck ain't starting now. 

Please don't get me wrong, I have no desire to be the authority on everything but I'll be damned if I'm going to concede to totalitarianism. 

*This will likely be a major factor if our currently 11+ year relationship doesn't last.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

I have told her numerous times that I didn't take orders (especially crappy ones) very well when I was in the Marine Corps and I sure the heck ain't starting now. 
Please don't get me wrong, I have no desire to be the authority on everything but I'll be damned if I'm going to concede to totalitarianism

I'm right there with you brother on that! I'm not one for being told "what to do, when to do it" , etc, when it flies in face of reality and common sense. I'll partner up any time with my asawa and make some joint decisions and I try to actually empower her some here in U.S. so she can understand money, decision making,, etc, But in the end if a final decision has to be made that is going to significantly impact me, finances, life, whatever at age 55 and we're Not in agreement?....Well, then I'm the only General in the room! Semper Fi


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Nickleback99 said:


> I have told her numerous times that I didn't take orders (especially crappy ones) very well when I was in the Marine Corps and I sure the heck ain't starting now.
> Please don't get me wrong, I have no desire to be the authority on everything but I'll be damned if I'm going to concede to totalitarianism
> 
> I'm right there with you brother on that! I'm not one for being told "what to do, when to do it" , etc, when it flies in face of reality and common sense. I'll partner up any time with my asawa and make some joint decisions and I try to actually empower her some here in U.S. so she can understand money, decision making,, etc, But in the end if a final decision has to be made that is going to significantly impact me, finances, life, whatever at age 55 and we're Not in agreement?....Well, then I'm the only General in the room! Semper Fi


Second that!


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

jon1 said:


> I see this as weak ass men (filipino) giving way to sensible minded women.


The reason I posted the article is I have heard both Filipino/Filipinas use the term "Under de Saya" not describe sensible minded women but to describe Expats/Foreigners who passively let their spouses facilitate the many troubling scenarios similar that are posted concerning finances, family, neighbors etc. I have never heard the term to describe a Filipino.

The term under de saya is a slang Filipinos used* not to describe sensible minded women*, it describes men who fear women especially those closely related to them, like their mothers or spouses. They follow the orders of their sex counterpart almost instantly without objection.


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

I am the Boss in my house!
And I have my wifes permission to say so


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

galactic said:


> I am the Boss in my house!
> And I have my wifes permission to say so


Lol


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> The reason I posted the article is I have heard both Filipino/Filipinas use the term "Under de Saya" not describe sensible minded women but to describe Expats/Foreigners who passively let their spouses facilitate the many troubling scenarios similar that are posted concerning finances, family, neighbors etc. I have never heard the term to describe a Filipino.
> 
> The term under de saya is a slang Filipinos used not to describe sensible minded women, it describes men who fear women especially those closely related to them, like their mothers or spouses. They follow the orders of their sex counterpart almost instantly without objection.


My wife says it means wife is boss. I have seen this so many times its sickening. Man gives wife check and he gets meager allowance. Stand up....get a backbone... U had a mom already .


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

lefties43332 said:


> My wife says it means wife is boss. I have seen this so many times its sickening. Man gives wife check and he gets meager allowance. Stand up....get a backbone... U had a mom already .


Your wife is correct! Under de Saya, in summary means "wife is the boss".


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Mine is fixing to be the boss of a one man (woman) crew if she's not careful.

Not kidding.


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

pakawala said:


> The reason I posted the article is I have heard both Filipino/Filipinas use the term "Under de Saya" not describe sensible minded women but to describe Expats/Foreigners who passively let their spouses facilitate the many troubling scenarios similar that are posted concerning finances, family, neighbors etc. I have never heard the term to describe a Filipino.
> 
> The term under de saya is a slang Filipinos used* not to describe sensible minded women*, it describes men who fear women especially those closely related to them, like their mothers or spouses. They follow the orders of their sex counterpart almost instantly without objection.


I have the ultimate say in things that are major decisions (finances,major purchases, etc.). I do take feedback from her and she is involved in the decision making process but I hold the key to the budget and everything else. I give her a small allowance that she can do as she will with and I do not question how it is used. 

I will let her handle any "local" problem as it will most likely turn out better for us if I do. If I wanted to live "Under de Saya" I might as well be back in the US. Which is why I am here. No more of that crap and she knows I will not take it either.

My wife does have a lot more common sense (after being with me for 13 years) and gets frustrated with some of the local antics that we rant about too. She fully appreciates a peaceful, relaxed atmosphere and doesn't tolerate stupidity and laziness anymore. She sees the benefits of our lifestyle and appreciates it. She likes the fact that I take the responsibility on the serious matters.

I do know of a british fellow (in his 30s) here that is a true momma's boy. He is dependent upon an allowance from his mother, does not work and doesn't do anything productive. He is married to a filipina and they live in Batangas. His younger wife is already tired of his laziness and is regretting that she married him.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*No Divorce*



jon1 said:


> I see this as weak ass men (filipino) giving way to sensible minded women. I do not relinquish the reigns in my house. I have seen the "feminists" work their BS in the US and it is that... BS. Women have their role in society as do men. I look at most filipino males as weak, lazy, malingerers (at best) or leaning towards gay or rarely, someone that I would respect as a "man". I have rarely ever see one that has balls. And if I do meet one I respect him.
> 
> I think that is one of the reasons that some of the sensible minded filipinas are attracted to foreigners. We have common sense, will make a decision, and go with the repercussions.
> 
> ...


There's no divorce so it's either put up with the dominating wife or have a stroke or end up with a mistress, I see many end up with the "Kabit". Drama can be stressful, my wife is a real life drama queen and loves to be in charge, sometimes that's a good thing but most times it's a real downer and I've thought about leaving her several times, for those that aren't married to a drama queen/over bossy or habitual nagger it's a painful experience.

I do have the say in our finances and also when purchasing products and foods. One time I seen an expat (younger man) he had his head bowed down and walking around with family inside a grocery store, I wanted to tell him to hold up his head but...Lol, actually it's not funny, there are some real dominating people in the Philippines this includes men.


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

mcalleyboy said:


> There's no divorce so it's either put up with the dominating wife or have a stroke or end up with a mistress, I see many end up with the "Kabit". Drama can be stressful, my wife is a real life drama queen and loves to be in charge, sometimes that's a good thing but most times it's a real downer and I've thought about leaving her several times, for those that aren't married to a drama queen/over bossy or habitual nagger it's a painful experience.
> 
> I do have the say in our finances and also when purchasing products and foods. One time I seen an expat (younger man) he had his head bowed down and walking around with family inside a grocery store, I wanted to tell him to hold up his head but...Lol, actually it's not funny, there are some real dominating people in the Philippines this includes men.



I told mine in the beginning (when we were dating) what my expectations were and that if she didn't agree with them then we were done. No drama was rule #1. After seeing her friend's drama she gets it and agrees no drama is best for us. She will only prod me but will never nag. 

Life is too short to live unhappy or stay in a relationship that grates on your nerves.

For her, divorce is not an option but for you it is. Just go to Guam and file there, in a week all will be done and you will be scot free. You can then return to the Philippines and get a fresh start on a tourist visa while you figure out what you will do. For her, the Philippines may still not recognize the divorce and she will be stuck.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*It's not that easy for some*



jon1 said:


> I told mine in the beginning (when we were dating) what my expectations were and that if she didn't agree with them then we were done. No drama was rule #1. After seeing her friend's drama she gets it and agrees no drama is best for us. She will only prod me but will never nag.
> 
> Life is too short to live unhappy or stay in a relationship that grates on your nerves.
> 
> For her, divorce is not an option but for you it is. Just go to Guam and file there, in a week all will be done and you will be scot free. You can then return to the Philippines and get a fresh start on a tourist visa while you figure out what you will do. For her, the Philippines may still not recognize the divorce and she will be stuck.


We married in WA state and I was active duty so she stayed with me for 16 years in the military she'll get half my retirement, I can't live on half my retirement and credit card bills.


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## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

jon1 said:


> For her, divorce is not an option but for you it is. Just go to Guam and file there, in a week all will be done and you will be scot free.


How can one do a divorce from a Filipina in Guam? We have a friend in common who I think might be interested in knowing some more details on how that works.


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## Jim151 (Jan 4, 2015)

Thanks for all the tips...when I get over there all I need to do is find a submissive good looking orphan. Piece of cake!


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Jim151 said:


> Thanks for all the tips...when I get over there all I need to do is find a submissive good looking orphan. Piece of cake!


Still won't work as there would've had to be somebody taking care of her to become her family LOL


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Lol*



Jim151 said:


> Thanks for all the tips...when I get over there all I need to do is find a submissive good looking orphan. Piece of cake!


LOL.... That orphan will have friends, hungry friends there's no escaping beggars and poor friends. It's a 3rd world thing, those that have escaped the condition are really blessed and I'm jealous.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

cvgtpc1 said:


> Still won't work as there would've had to be somebody taking care of her to become her family LOL


Ha ha yea get her water, do the dishes, laundry, ain't it the truth.


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## esv1226 (Mar 13, 2014)

.. from a woman ... a sensible woman does not like her man to be "under the saya". if she were superior financially and/or intellectually, she does not flaunt it. as a matter of fact, she is supportive and proud of her man and there is a healthy solid relationship.
... and men here do not take advantage of their superiority either. i can sense that you nurture and respect your wife and you are loved x times in return. a woman who is bullied may cling to her man for reasons other than love.


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