# US citizenship for my baby girl...



## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

Hi there, 
I moved from France to Florida in September 1995, I lived and worked there permanently until
April 2002. I became an American citizen In August 2000.

May 2011, my spouse, my baby daughter and I went the American consulate to report the birth of our child and also to apply for a SSN and an US passport as the USCIS policy allows her. 
After verifying my US citizenship and a few documents proving my presence in the US, the consulate officer took my filled form and asked me to pay the appropriate fees. :clap2:

After that our consulate administration continued contacting me by phone and emails:
"WE NEED MORE PROVES THAT YOU LIVED IN THE US FOR A PERIOD OF TIME OF YEARS" :confused2:

These are the official documents I sent them:
1-Transcript of schedule of work from from the Social SecurityAdministration1996,97,98,99,2000
2 -Copies of Tax return that I still had in my possession: years 1999 and 2000.
3- A contract and schedule of payment under my name from a nationwide company for my 
apartment, paid with my checks during 54 months, I lived there for almost 5 years. 
4- Several financial and banking document...
5- Many paid bills... :spit: 

And of course
-My American passport showing that I was in the US until April 2002,
-My Florida Identification issued in 1996, 
-My Florida driver license issued in 1997, 
-My first work permit issued by the INS in 1996,
-My US voter card issued in 2000 and so on ... 

After all this our administration consulate sent an email:
" WE NEED MORE PROVES OF YOU PRESENCE IN THE US AN YOU NEED TO PAY THE SAME FEES AGAIN" :ballchain: 

Would that be possible for anyone telling me what to do or any legal advice would be really appreciated.


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*US citizenship for my baby gir*

The USCIS requires 5 years of permanent presence on the American soil ...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Cosmopolitan said:


> The USCIS requires 5 years of permanent presence on the American soil ...


... as US citizen


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

Prerequisites for transmitting US Citizenship :

1 - At least one of natural parent must have been a U.S. citizen. 
2 - The U.S. citizen parent must have resided or been physically present in the United State for a least 5 years.

Those are the requirements I got from the U.S. consulate.

Thank you for your quick answer.


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*5 years as U.S. citizen !!!*

Let us suppose that 5 years as citizen is a minimum (which is totally wrong).

Some common sens then ;
Why our U.S. consulate would have taken the completed forms and made pay all the adequate fees ? 

*The consul in person with 2 local agents have checked my daughter case and the time a I lived in the American soil... 
*
*
5 years *, (even as an illegal with proves )* that is the law* and I was a legal resident from day 1 of my arrival.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Cosmopolitan said:


> Prerequisites for transmitting US Citizenship :
> 
> 1 - At least one of natural parent must have been a U.S. citizen.
> 2 - The U.S. citizen parent must have resided or been physically present in the United State for a least 5 years.
> ...


This is the information sheet from the US consulate: http://photos.state.gov/libraries/france/5/acs/paris-reportbirth.pdf

And it's not entirely clear whether you meet the residence requirement or not. But what nationality is your husband? If he's American, there should be no problem.

However, if they determine ultimately that you had to be resident in the US while a citizen for five years, you can still use the "Plan B" procedure described at the bottom of p. 3 of the handout. Though your daughter would have to get a immigration visa to enter the US, the minute she hits US soil, she is granted US citizenship - and you don't have to stay in the US any longer than you want to.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*5 years as U.S. citizen !!!*

Thank you for you advices

My wife and my daughter are stuck in North Africa, if ma baby girl gets her "due" U.S. passport , it would be easier for her mom to apply for a "schengen visa".

I am her daddy and a U.S. citizen for almost 12 years


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Cosmopolitan said:


> Prerequisites for transmitting US Citizenship :
> 
> 1 - At least one of natural parent must have been a U.S. citizen.
> 2 - The U.S. citizen parent must have resided or been physically present in the United State for a least 5 years.
> ...


Following your citizenship in 2000, did you reside or were physically present in the USA for at least 5 years? as per the requirements above.

From your other answers you became a citizen in 2000 and left in 2002.

How many years as a legal resident in the US is immaterial to your daughter getting her US passport - it sounds like its how many years AS AS CITIZEN you resided in the States.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Cosmopolitan said:


> Thank you for you advices
> 
> My wife and my daughter are stuck in North Africa, if ma baby girl gets her "due" U.S. passport , it would be easier for her mom to apply for a "schengen visa".
> 
> I am her daddy and a U.S. citizen for almost 12 years


If you're French and in France now, your wife should just apply for a spouse visa to come and join you. According to the Service Public website, they can't refuse the spouse of a French citizen a spouse visa unless she is somehow a "threat to public order" or she refuses to learn French. Visas de long séjour pour la France - Service-public.fr particularly this part:



> *Visas délivrés aux conjoints de Français*
> 
> Le visa de long séjour ne peut être refusé à un conjoint de Français qu'en cas de fraude, d'annulation du mariage, de menace à l'ordre public ou en cas de non production de l'attestation de suivi de la formation à la langue française et aux valeurs de la République dans le pays de résidence.
> 
> Les autorités consulaires doivent statuer sur la demande dans les meilleurs délais.


Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

In OP's listing of documentation he states US tax returns for 1999 and 2000; nothing up to date.


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*Form: DS-5507*

Hello,
The consul made fill all the forms and specially the Affidavit of Physcal Presence (DS-5507) wich requires 5 proven years of any kind of permanent presence even as a non resident.
_(Not as a U.S. citizen)_

Until now they are asking fore more documents. " Statements from your previous employers" I tried to contact my previous bosses but with no succes.
They did not say "you need 5 years of residency AS US CITIZEN.


Once again I have legally lived and worked permantly and paid my taxes in Florida, during those almost 7 years, I have left the U.S. 5 times to vistit my parents in France. (Less than 96 day in total). 




Crawford said:


> Following your citizenship in 2000, did you reside or were physically present in the USA for at least 5 years? as per the requirements above.
> 
> From your other answers you became a citizen in 2000 and left in 2002.
> 
> How many years as a legal resident in the US is immaterial to your daughter getting her US passport - it sounds like its how many years AS AS CITIZEN you resided in the States.


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*Bonjour Mme Deforges*

Madame,

Ma situation est un peu plus compliquéeque cela, je vis en France en temps que résident permanent et non en temps que citoyen Français.

Les démarches auprès des représentations diplomatiques francaises dans mon pays d'origine releve du parcours du combattant. :boxing:

Si mon bébé et moi sommes americains, beaucoup d'obstacles tombent... mon épouse serait logiquement accompagnatrice de notre enfant...

Merci de l'interêt que vous porter sur ce cas




Bevdeforges said:


> If you're French and in France now, your wife should just apply for a spouse visa to come and join you. According to the Service Public website, they can't refuse the spouse of a French citizen a spouse visa unless she is somehow a "threat to public order" or she refuses to learn French. Visas de long séjour pour la France - Service-public.fr particularly this part:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Deforges is not my last name - and frankly you'll get farther with me speaking English than French. (This is, after all, an English language forum.)

OK, I misinterpreted your "flags" thinking you had French nationality. So that idea won't work.

It looks like you're going to have to leave things in the hands of the folks at the consulate and see how things work out. I'm sure they will do what they can to get your application to go through, though I suspect the rules in this case are somewhat ambiguous. 

If worst comes to worst and they can't get your daughter nationality from birth, that "Plan B" approach does work amazingly well - as long as you can get your daughter to the US on the proper visa. As I understand it (from a couple of folks who have done it), she'll be a US citizen from the moment she enters the country - it's just a matter of clearing the paperwork to have her passport and other documents drawn up.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

I sent a letter 2 weeks ago to our U.S. Ambassador (Samuel l. Kaplan) to expain the ambiguity and theanxiety.
Still waiting for his answer.

Sorry for posting in French language but that is where I live


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Cosmopolitan said:


> I sent a letter 2 weeks ago to our U.S. Ambassador (Samuel l. Kaplan) to expain the ambiguity and theanxiety.
> Still waiting for his answer.
> 
> Sorry for posting in French language but that is where I live


That does not change the fact that you have to present proof of your physical presence for five years in the US. It is not that hard to recreate a couple of years - tax returns, school transcripts, contracts, employment, passports ...


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*Primary evidence...*

I wish to inform you that I did have send several evidence of my physical presence in the U.S. soil:

Transcript from Social Security Administration for 5 years showing that I have worked during my stay. 
2 years of Tax Return from the Internal Revenue Services...

I also sent them many secondary evidence of physical presence. please check the list out on my first post.

The way I feel about it now is that they consider me as "2nd or 3thd class" U.S. citizen, perhaps the fact I became a U.S. citizen within 5 years and had left the country less than 7 years after my first arrival. *I hope I am wrong*


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Cosmopolitan said:


> I wish to inform you that I did have send several evidence of my physical presence in the U.S. soil:
> 
> Transcript from Social Security Administration for 5 years showing that I have worked during my stay.
> 2 years of Tax Return from the Internal Revenue Services...
> ...


I don't think you're considered a 2nd or 3rd class citizen. But the rules regarding granting of citizenship to children born overseas with one American parent have changed almost constantly over the last 15 or 20 years. If the people at the Consulate are checking things out for you, they'll be checking all the angles and all possible paths - but obviously, they're limited to what the law states and how the offices in Washington (or wherever back in the US) view these matters.

When I was active in the American expat groups in Paris, I knew several people who had gone through these sorts of dealings on a variety of issues where the law and/or procedure were not terribly clear. Usually, the consulate personnel were helpful and really did try to achieve the desired result. Give them a chance to see what they can do.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*"Second and Third class U.S. citizen"*

With all the anxiety and stress that the 3 of us are subjected makes feel sometimes that way.
Of course they knew if I became an American citizen I had to live, worked, permantely and pay my taxes in the the U.S.
It is whole "deal" to become a U.S. citizen, it is not as simple as that, I proudly went throught out all that process.
*And why would they have taken my daughter application a made us pay all the fees if they kind of knew that our case was "doubtfull"".*
So far with we spent about $ 1400 everythig. included 

Sorry for my broken english!


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*Unreasonable answers !*

Some of the moderator's answers were just like the one from our abroad administration, not rational, almost without realizing a bit arbitrary...

This seems unfortunately a little outrageous ! :confused2:


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

You post fragments of information, make statements apparently based on your understanding of conversations, change the situation, are impolite enough to post in what is a foreign language in a US forum and lash out. You were given official links and directions.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2012)

Here is the wording from the US State Department's website at this URL:

Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad

-------------------------------
Quote: (bolding is mine)

*Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock*

A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. *citizen *parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. *(For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. *For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.

End Quote.
------------------------------

I believe the 5 years physical presence within the US requirement must be *AS A CITIZEN*, and not just as a permanent resident or other status, if the child is born outside of the US. If it makes it any easier for you to swallow, they don't make it easy for any child born outside of the US to get their papers, even if it is straight forward. Just a bunch of hoops, documents, photos, etc for all, and several visits. 

The prick behind the glass in my local consulate wanted my passport with its stamps from various countries and other documents to prove that I had been in the country and had "access to the female" at the time she became pregnant. He was talking about my wife. At least I then understood why that consular prick needed bulletproof glass.

Good luck in your quest.



-


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*2nd and 3rd U.S. citizen" ?*

Thanks for your sens of realism.
They make it harder for us, the consulate officer maybe believes that We will perhaps give up...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Cosmopolitan said:


> Thanks for your sens of realism.
> They make it harder for us, the consulate officer maybe believes that We will perhaps give up...


The burden of proof lies with the petitioner. Official links and information was given to you. Good luck in your endeavor!


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## Cosmopolitan (Mar 17, 2012)

*Arbitrariness !!!*

You want to talk about arbitrary ? :focus:

I was born outside the US to an American mother and a father who is a citizen of my birth country. My sister, brothers and I were respectively 11, 7, 6 and 5 when we relocated to the US. As we were all minors, we entered the country under my mother's citizenship - we are recognized dual citizens by our birth country. The US, who reluctantly acknowledges that other countries recognize the concept of dual citizenship, recognized us as ex-pats returning home.

Fast forward till I (the oldest) reached majority. I contacted the Consulate of our birth country to ask how to manage things like passports, registering to vote, etc. The Consul told me that if someone in authority asked if I were an American citizen, to say Yes, but not to volunteer anything else unless asked specifically; they would continue to recognize me as a citizen until or unless I signed something saying I wasn't. I passed this information on to my siblings.

Okay, on to arbitrary. Each of the four of us applied for a US passport at various times. My sister sent in her application and received her passport a few weeks later, no questions asked. I had to get an affidavit from my mother declaring that she was a US citizen and confirming various dates that she was in residence in the US. One of my brothers had to provide our mother's school records, which luckily the city still had from the 40's. And my other brother had to get help from his Congressman. Each of us had been acknowledged as US citizens prior and had lived in the US for over a decade, since childhood, before our applications were submitted.

Arbitrary happens. It's a fact of life. :clap2:


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