# latest news regarding tarjeta sanitaria



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife (Jul 26, 2011)

can somebody translate this for the members here.......thanks


El Gobierno rebaja los requisitos para obtener la tarjeta sanitaria | Sociedad | EL PAÍS


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My google translated it automatically (nearly!!???) The first bit says this - not fully sure of what it means tho!?????

All who enter less than 100,000 euros a year and is in a legal situation in Spain is entitled to health insurance card. The rotation of the Ministry of Health is radical from the Royal Decree Law of 20 April. Then there were only two options: either have Social Security contributions, or benefit from the provision for the needy. All that has been superseded even before entering into force, as is clear from the draft royal decree prepared by the Ministry of Health has had access to COUNTRY. It states that for legal residents (Spanish or foreign) who have not paid into Social Security, it is sufficient evidence that they have entered less than 100,000 euros a year and have card.

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

enjoylife said:


> can somebody translate this for the members here.......thanks
> 
> 
> El Gobierno rebaja los requisitos para obtener la tarjeta sanitaria | Sociedad | EL PAÍS


Ministry backtracks on healthcare entitlement restrictions | In English | EL PAÍS


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> Ministry backtracks on healthcare entitlement restrictions | In English | EL PAÍS


So better for Spanish Nationals than previously. That's good news.



> The new legislation is an attempt to patch up these holes. From now on, anyone over 26 who has never paid Social Security will still be allowed to use the public health network, as long as they make under 100,000 euros a year.


But still the same harsher rulings for EU immigrants...



> But at the same time, the law gets tougher on residents from the European Union who neither work nor study - such as retired people who live off a pension or personal savings, for instance.
> 
> From now on, their residency will be subject to their "not becoming an excessive burden on Spain's social assistance."
> 
> The purpose of the legislative change is unclear, but several experts consulted by EL PAÍS said that the point is to prevent people from coming to Spain without a job but with resources (for instance, after selling his or her house back home), and later abusing the system when their money runs out. *In other words, only EU residents who can pay for their own upkeep may remain here.*


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I do not think that it will affect this old git.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

"But at the same time, the law gets tougher on residents from the European Union who neither work nor study - such as retired people who live off a pension or personal savings, for instance.

From now on, their residency will be subject to their "not becoming an excessive burden on Spain's social assistance."


That can only apply to new residents.EU rules prevent it being applied retrospectively.


The purpose of the legislative change is unclear, but several experts consulted by EL PAÍS said that the point is to prevent people from coming to Spain without a job but with resources (for instance, after selling his or her house back home), and later abusing the system when their money runs out. In other words, only EU residents who can pay for their own upkeep may remain here.

But if they come with money, job , etc; & are registered on the 'registro cuidadano de la union' & after 5 years get the 'permanent resident certificate ' then lose all their money /job they cannot be legally thrown out /asked to leave.

The draft legislation says that "resorting to social assistance in Spain by a citizen of the Union or a member of his family will not automatically result in expulsion."

It cannot, ever, it is written in stone in EU rules. Only terrorism, acts against the state , etc; can result in an EU citizen being expelled /deported.

It all reads to me as the best they could cobble up after announcing everything they were going to do , then realising that legally, under EU rules , they basically can't do anything !


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

gus-lopez said:


> It all reads to me as the best they could cobble up after announcing everything they were going to do , then realising that legally, under EU rules , they basically can't do anything !


That's how it reads to me too. 
But whether or not they can actually _do_ this is only part of the equation.

It's the continued uncertainty, both on the part of officials and of those at the moment caught up in the application process, or those who were ready to apply but are now having a rethink, that is still a problem.


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## MacRov (Oct 26, 2010)

So does that mean that someone like myself, who lives in Spain but works in the UK and pays tax etc in the UK and earning under €100K per year would be entitled to health care, would that include my wife & kids ?

confused


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

MacRov said:


> So does that mean that someone like myself, who lives in Spain but works in the UK and pays tax etc in the UK and earning under €100K per year would be entitled to health care, would that include my wife & kids ?
> 
> confused


No. That's for people earning it here.
Your wife & children are entitled to spanish healthcare once resident, with the S1 form . They are entitled by virtue of you working & paying in , in another member state whilst the family are living here. You, as the worker, are entitled to full UK healthcare & when in Spain use your EHIC.


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## MacRov (Oct 26, 2010)

I was just curious as I pay for private healthcare anyway, cheers for clearing it up.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

MacRov said:


> So does that mean that someone like myself, who lives in Spain but works in the UK and pays tax etc in the UK and earning under €100K per year would be entitled to health care, would that include my wife & kids ?
> 
> confused



This raises an obvious question. If you live in Spain (as you say), work in UK (as you say) then why are you not paying tax in Spain? 

I thought the rule was that if you are in Spain for more than 183 days each year, then you are considered tax resident - no choice.


Are there, perhaps, rules which exempt you I (and perhaps others), would be interested to know.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> This raises an obvious question. If you live in Spain (as you say), work in UK (as you say) then why are you not paying tax in Spain?
> 
> I thought the rule was that if you are in Spain for more than 183 days each year, then you are considered tax resident - no choice.
> 
> ...


He isn't here for 183 days. He , I believe , works 3 weeks offshore in the UK & then is off here for three weeks. Then days travelling don't normally count. In addition if he did just creep in & was required to make a declaration then the uk Tax & ni would be offset under the reciprocal agreement.


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## MacRov (Oct 26, 2010)

As Gus said, I'm not quite in the country long enough due to my work schedule. Also with only moving to Spain half way through last year I'm sure I've read I wouldn't have to submit a return for 2010-11. I will see how many days I'm in for this next financial year n take it from there.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> This raises an obvious question. If you live in Spain (as you say), work in UK (as you say) then why are you not paying tax in Spain?
> 
> I thought the rule was that if you are in Spain for more than 183 days each year, then you are considered tax resident - no choice.
> 
> ...


I have just gone through the Spanish Tax declaration system. Our pensions are taxed at source in the U.K. I had great difficulty explaining to the Boss of the office, why this was so.

In the end she sent us away, and a month later recalled us, signed a form for me to have my O.A.P. transferred here, gave us a Bank refund and told us to return next year for her staff to assist us with the next declaration.

I believe that she must have sought advice from above.

We have no earnings whatsoever in Spain, and this was the first tax return ever completed.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Looking further into the new proposals, there is an emphasis on earnings (or lack of earnings), so we are into the realms of fiscal residency, rather than the 'I'm living here' type residency.
For those employed, or unemployed on Paro, or registered but unable to claim Paro, or those who fill in an annual tax return, no problem (as long as they are under the magic 100,000 figure of course).

But what about all those expats who have retired here and do not declare for taxation?

And before anyone says they should be declaring anyway, many pensioners, for example, are under the assumption that they do not need to declare their income if they are on the one state pension and below a certain level.

And then you get the case, already mentioned, of the worker who earns money abroad, but whose wife and children live in Spain and are Spanish residents. That worker has the legal right not to declare as fiscal resident in Spain, but where does that leave his wife and children?

In the pensioner's case, they should be covered by the S1 and the reciprocal agreement, but this new proposal (whether intentionally or not) opens up a can of worms for them regarding taxation (and, as it comes at a time of year where it is almost too late to do anything about it for this year's return, it makes things even worse).

And in the case of the wives and children of non-residents earning abroad, some of whom at the moment have health cards, does this proposal suggest they should be filing a tax declaration? And if so, on what earnings?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> Looking further into the new proposals, there is an emphasis on earnings (or lack of earnings), so we are into the realms of fiscal residency, rather than the 'I'm living here' type residency.
> For those employed, or unemployed on Paro, or registered but unable to claim Paro, or those who fill in an annual tax return, no problem (as long as they are under the magic 100,000 figure of course).
> 
> But what about all those expats who have retired here and do not declare for taxation?
> ...


if tax & NI are paid in the UK, then the family here can use the S1 - I have no idea about other 'abroad' workers though

we had to have private ins. until I started working - my OH paid tax etc in the US (an accountant there sorted everything out as far as declarations here were concerned - although it seems he wasn't doing a great job......just one more thing for me to sort out ) so we weren't covered here


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> if tax & NI are paid in the UK, then the family here can use the S1 - I have no idea about other 'abroad' workers though
> 
> we had to have private ins. until I started working - my OH paid tax etc in the US (an accountant there sorted everything out as far as declarations here were concerned - although it seems he wasn't doing a great job......just one more thing for me to sort out ) so we weren't covered here


Yes they can use the S1.
But I was thinking more along the lines of these proposals being mainly _fiscally_ based and wondering how that will affect families of those paying tax abroad.
(But I'm trying to work this out at the moment, in terms of how this Government appears to be working (or not working...) so bear with me  ).

Yes, I had to go autonomo here before we could get state health care, so we wouldn't have been worried by these proposals as regards health (although we would have been worried as regards proving income left after autonomo fees were paid...).

But I do think that a whole new can of worms is opening here. Whether because this Government is trying to juggle too many issues together (and failing miserably) or whether there really is a concrete plan behind this, I await the outcome (although not with bated breath....).


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife (Jul 26, 2011)

jojo said:


> My google translated it automatically (nearly!!???) The first bit says this - not fully sure of what it means tho!?????
> 
> All who enter less than 100,000 euros a year and is in a legal situation in Spain is entitled to health insurance card. The rotation of the Ministry of Health is radical from the Royal Decree Law of 20 April. Then there were only two options: either have Social Security contributions, or benefit from the provision for the needy. All that has been superseded even before entering into force, as is clear from the draft royal decree prepared by the Ministry of Health has had access to COUNTRY. It states that for legal residents (Spanish or foreign) who have not paid into Social Security, it is sufficient evidence that they have entered less than 100,000 euros a year and have card.
> 
> Jo xxx


I have been at the centro de salud this morning for information about the new
law ........they told me, that the article in the media was not correct and still nothing has changed......
now what to believe?


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## MacRov (Oct 26, 2010)

hahaha Spain eh...


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Solwriter , I like this :

" (as long as they are under the magic 100,000 figure of course)."
i was telling my wife on the phone this morning ( unfortunately she's in the Uk at the moment & is not happy ) The only words I could pick out between the *** ****** **** **** appeared to be hand, one, & count. 
Possibly Xtreme might be over the limit ! 

Another problem arises with the tax declaration which are not necessary if you have income below a certain amount, or make zero declarations ( which many offices don't like & won't let you make )


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

ALL legal residents in Spain who earn less than 100,000 euros per year will have the right to free medical care on the State from September 1 this year, says health minister Ana Mató (pictured).
Even foreigners – EU citizens or otherwise – and irrespective of whether or not they pay into the Social Security system or are working – will be able to obtain a SIP card, which lets them register with a doctor and be treated for all ailments, pre-existing or otherwise, by the State.
EU citizens or nationals of other countries which have reciprocal agreements with Spain will receive healthcare in accordance with the conditions established by these treaties.
Those who fall into one of four categories – State pensioners, employees or registered self-employed workers, those registered on and claiming dole, and those whose dole money has run out but who remain recorded as jobseekers with their unemployment office – are automatically eligible without question.
Residents who do not fall into any of these categories – ‘black’ workers who have never earned enough to ‘go legal’, or early retirees not yet old enough to claim a State pension, for example – will only be entitled to free healthcare if they earn less than 100,000 euros a year before tax.
These earnings include income from working, businesses owned, capital returns or capital gains, wherever these can be offset against or are taken into account when calculating income tax.
All live-in partners of those who qualify for free medical treatment, who are registered on the padrón as such are entitled to State healthcare, as are children or siblings aged under 26 years where they live with the qualifying party.
The definition of ‘children’ extends to fostered and adopted children.
Non-legal immigrants from outside the EU will be treated provided they pay either Social Security or a similar subscription, to be defined, although they will automatically receive healthcare if they are under 18 or pregnant, including labour, ante-natal and post-natal care.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife (Jul 26, 2011)

agua642 said:


> ALL legal residents in Spain who earn less than 100,000 euros per year will have the right to free medical care on the State from September 1 this year, says health minister Ana Mató (pictured).
> Even foreigners – EU citizens or otherwise – and irrespective of whether or not they pay into the Social Security system or are working – will be able to obtain a SIP card, which lets them register with a doctor and be treated for all ailments, pre-existing or otherwise, by the State.
> EU citizens or nationals of other countries which have reciprocal agreements with Spain will receive healthcare in accordance with the conditions established by these treaties.
> Those who fall into one of four categories – State pensioners, employees or registered self-employed workers, those registered on and claiming dole, and those whose dole money has run out but who remain recorded as jobseekers with their unemployment office – are automatically eligible without question.
> ...




Great Info.... many thanks for that......
may i ask you from where did you get that?




may i ask you from where


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

enjoylife said:


> Great Info.... many thanks for that......
> may i ask you from where did you get that?
> 
> 
> ...


I think it's a press release sent to all English-language expat newspapers.

All residents earning less than 100,000 euros a year will qualify for free healthcare


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

It was in think Spain and all in El PAIS in English

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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

agua642 said:


> It was in think Spain and all in El PAIS in English
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Thank you for that.

Sent direct from my brain using a ley line.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I believe this policy change has come from an EU directive on harmonisation of healthcare provision, rather than being an initiative taken by the present government. 

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/en/lsa/119514.pdf


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

jimenato said:


> Thank you for that.
> 
> Sent direct from my brain using a ley line.


To give agua642 his or her due.
If I sent a post from my blackberry, it would stick a similar message on the end.
Total pain and appears very pretentious.

And now.... :focus:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

More on EU healthcare harmonisation:

Activities of the European Union - Public Health


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> To give agua642 his or her due.
> If I sent a post from my blackberry, it would stick a similar message on the end.
> Total pain and appears very pretentious.
> 
> And now.... :focus:


my android doesn't.......... I removed the sig line


:focus:

so ............... tarjeta sanitaria anyone?


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> More on EU healthcare harmonisation:
> 
> Activities of the European Union - Public Health


So this seems to be partly what the scurrying around trying to sort out state health care is about...


> An EU law (to be implemented by EU countries by 2013) on patients' rights in cross-border healthcare will clarify the right for Europeans to be treated in another EU country and be reimbursed. It will also:
> 
> make it easier for national health authorities to work closer together and exchange information on quality and safety standards of healthcare
> 
> ...


Alongside, of course, trying to find ways to save money _and_ please public opinion...
Not an easy task!


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

All very well. But by 2013 how many countries will still be in EU

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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

agua642 said:


> All very well. But by 2013 how many countries will still be in EU


Greece may be forced to leave but Croatia is joining in 2013. There are five other countries on the waiting list for acceptance.

Despite the current crisis most Europeans (outside the UK anyway) still believe they are "better in than out".


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*&ndash; &lsquo;black&rsquo*



agua642 said:


> ALL legal residents in Spain who earn less than 100,000 euros per year will have the right to free medical care on the State from September 1 this year, says health minister Ana Mató (pictured).
> Even foreigners – EU citizens or otherwise – and irrespective of whether or not they pay into the Social Security system or are working – will be able to obtain a SIP card, which lets them register with a doctor and be treated for all ailments, pre-existing or otherwise, by the State.
> EU citizens or nationals of other countries which have reciprocal agreements with Spain will receive healthcare in accordance with the conditions established by these treaties.
> Those who fall into one of four categories – State pensioners, employees or registered self-employed workers, those registered on and claiming dole, and those whose dole money has run out but who remain recorded as jobseekers with their unemployment office – are automatically eligible without question.
> ...


Looks like sending stuff with formatting from an iPhone ends up producing alphabet soup. Like Admiral Nelson's punctuation-free correspondence, the meaning becomes somewhat obscure.


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife (Jul 26, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Greece may be forced to leave but Croatia is joining in 2013. There are five other countries on the waiting list for acceptance.
> 
> 
> greece , spain and ?
> ...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

enjoylife said:


> greece , spain and ?
> I wonder...... why now so many countries are bankrupt?
> it has not been before the euro...


I think you should maybe start a new thread if you want to talk about the euro, as this one is about Spanish healthcare provision. 

:focus:


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