# Italian descent, second generation, Maybe? Can I get a Italian passport? Help!



## Danny2IT

The recent posts concerning the requirements for obtaining an Italian Passport (and the "1948 Rule") has gotten me to thinking about my own situation. My situation is a little unique and potentially a bit on the grey side. I would appreciate the opinion of the community on whether I have a potential case that would merit further consideration. To start, all 4 of my maternal great-grandparents were Italian citizens.

My line through my maternal grandfather is as follows. He was born in IT in 1908, and emigrated to the US in 1916. He was naturalized in 1933, and my mother was born in 1943. For what I understand, the hereditary lineage through him is broken by his naturalization prior to my mother's birth.

Things get grey on my maternal grandmother's side of the tree. She was born in the US in 1913, however, one month after her birth, she and her parents repatriated to IT, where they stayed until 1921.

So what I don't know is what my grandmother's status would have been? Dual-Citizen? Is this enough to consider my Italian heritage through my maternal side of the family? Would this potential grey area help or hurt, if it helps at all?

I am also studying the elective residency visa route as an alternative. I would imagine that having this information on my family history collected may go a long way in helping to obtain an elective residency visa.

Thanks in Advance


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## BBCWatcher

It looks like you have a good "1948 case" from your maternal grandmother. Your maternal grandfather appears to be a dead end.

Anything on your father's side to look at?


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## Danny2IT

thanks BBCWatcher.

Nothing on my father's side, unless I want to wind up in Canada


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## Danny2IT

As an additional note, my mother pointed me to the Ellis Island website that shows my maternal grandmother arriving in 1923, and is listed as an Italian national on the passenger manifest. I hope this type of paperwork would be helpful as I am not sure how much other paperwork exists from that time. I do know my mother has her parents birth certificate and marriage certificates.


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## craftfairy

I believe that at leat one of your parents had to be Italian citizens at the time of your birth. This is what was told several years ago when I wanted to take out dual citizenship. Be aware that you might alter your tax position if you do this.


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## BBCWatcher

craftfairy said:


> I believe that at leat one of your parents had to be Italian citizens at the time of your birth.


One of your parents had to be at least _recognizable_ as an Italian citizen at the time of your birth. That's the basic principle of _jure sanguinis_ citizenship transmission.

There is presently no timeliness limit in documenting jure sanguinis citizenship transmission(s), though there is a 300 euro fee levied on all adults (age 18 or older) applying for citizenship recognition.



> Be aware that you might alter your tax position if you do this.


No. There is no inherent tax liability associated with possession of Italian citizenship.

If you _reside_ in Italy, have Italian source income, or have real property in Italy (and thus owe property tax there), then you will be subject to some level of taxation in Italy. That has nothing to do with citizenship status.


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## cpa21

*Italian Passport Questions*

There are discussion boards on the web that are devoted to the topic of acquiring recognition as an Italian citizen Jure Sanguinis. In fact BBCWatcher is an Admin on one of those boards. If you are serious about obtaining an Italian passport you should visit some of the boards and do some reading. 

While it may not be useful with your particular circumstances the Italian consulates all have web sites that discuss the process for being recognized as an Italian citizen by descent. 

Finally, the term 1948 case means that you will need to file suit in the Italian court system to be recognized as an Italian citizen. There are some Italian attorneys that specialize in filing these suits. By all accounts they have been successful. If you visit the discussion boards I referred to above the attorney's names will appear. The attorneys in turn have their own web sites.

If you have a strong enough interest you will be successful in being recognized as an Italian citizen and acquiring a second passport.


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## Danny2IT

Thanks, I've been recenting reading some of the various forums dedicated to this topic, as well as, collecting as many of the documents that would be required. I have noticed a few lawyers associated with winning such cases in the Italian courts, but if you have a recommendation, I would appreciate it if you could send it in a private message.


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## Arturo.c

Danny2IT said:


> Things get grey on my maternal grandmother's side of the tree. She was born in the US in 1913, however, one month after her birth, she and her parents repatriated to IT, where they stayed until 1921.
> 
> So what I don't know is what my grandmother's status would have been? Dual-Citizen? Is this enough to consider my Italian heritage through my maternal side of the family? Would this potential grey area help or hurt, if it helps at all?


The old Italian law on citizenship (Law no. 555 of 1912) provided that any former Italian citizen who relocated in Italy would reacquire his Italian citizenship automatically after 12 months of uninterrupted residence in his/her home country.

Therefore your grandmother (who was Italian by lineage and American by birth) held both citizenships.


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## accbgb

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is what of your maternal great-grandfather?

If your grandmother was born in 1913 and returned to the US in 1921/1923, she was at best 10 years old. If her father (your maternal great-grandfather) became a naturalized US citizen anytime prior to her 18th (21st?) birthday, she would have naturalized along with him, thus ending the line.

The one exception of which I am aware is the possibility that she had already married prior her father's naturalization in which case her father's life changes would no longer impact her.


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## Danny2IT

No, none of my great grandparents on my Italian side ever naturalized.


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## maddaston

In the last post, you say that the naturalization of the parent passes directly onto the child if the child was under 18 at the time of naturalization. I do not recall seeing this anywhere in the writings claiming by decent. In the consulate sites it only states the child must be born before the parent became naturalized and not have reached their 18th birthday.


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## accbgb

maddaston said:


> In the last post, you say that the naturalization of the parent passes directly onto the child if the child was under 18 at the time of naturalization. I do not recall seeing this anywhere in the writings claiming by decent. In the consulate sites it only states the child must be born before the parent became naturalized and not have reached their 18th birthday.



"Things get grey on my maternal grandmother's side of the tree. She was born in the US in 1913, however, one month after her birth, she and her parents repatriated to IT, where they stayed until 1921."

It is, it seems to me, more than likely that her birth would have been registered in Italy when the family repatriated and she would have been deemed an Italian citizen. In this situation, I believe grandmother would have lost her right to US citizenship.

If, upon returning to the US, great-grandfather became a US citizen prior to grandmother's 18th birthday, she would have received derivative citizenship and lost her Italian citizenship, thus ending the line.

What does BBCWatcher think?


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## cpa21

accbgb said:


> One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is what of your maternal great-grandfather?
> 
> If your grandmother was born in 1913 and returned to the US in 1921/1923, she was at best 10 years old. If her father (your maternal great-grandfather) became a naturalized US citizen anytime prior to her 18th (21st?) birthday, she would have naturalized along with him, thus ending the line.
> 
> The one exception of which I am aware is the possibility that she had already married prior her father's naturalization in which case her father's life changes would no longer impact her.


Since the grandmother was born in the US she had US citizenship from birth. The naturalization of one or both of her parents subsequent to her birth had no effect on her Italian citizenship.


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## panama rick

Hi Danny,
Just my 2 cents. We are going through something similar with my wife's grandfather (challenging the 1948 law). We contacted an attorney in Bologna (Luigi Paiano), who was recommended by some folks on this forum. He has been extremely responsive and we couldn't be happier. He has an impressive success rate against this law. Google him. Rick


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