# Property prices on the CDS



## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

My brother thinking of moving down south, he lives in Bulgaria now. He was talking about buying some land and building a kit house. If it were me I would build a stone/brick one but his choice. 

I was saying in the current market probably cheaper to buy than build. Anyone down there seen offers that are difficult to refuse?

I guess I am talking about somewhere either near town or up in the hills, not the ghettos by the side of the motorway.

The ones he saw online had small rooms, low ceilings and seemed expensive for a country in crisis with too much property.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

maxd said:


> My brother thinking of moving down south, he lives in Bulgaria now. He was talking about buying some land and building a kit house. If it were me I would build a stone/brick one but his choice.
> 
> I was saying in the current market probably cheaper to buy than build. Anyone down there seen offers that are difficult to refuse?
> 
> ...


Hi. Yes, online prices are in fairytale territory. You have to come here and see for yourself. And yes again, in some places it is probably cheaper to buy than to build.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lots of kit houses have huge amounts of glass - beware, they are no good for the Andalusian summer. You want thick walls and small windows!


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

There are some very cheap houses at the moment if you are happy to come Inland from the coast slightly. A friend of mine has a wooden kit house and it is roasting in the summer and freezing in the winter, It was actually quite expensive to build.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

A cheap house will be a cheap house.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Now my Spanish neighbour has gone home, I can explain what I meant.

You have to be extremely careful when buying property in Spain as there are so many potential pitfalls. Many houses were built without the necessary permissions and could possibly be demolished. Others were poorly constructed or built in such a way that newer developments nearby have caused structural problems.

There can also be problems of access in bad winter weather for some campo houses. Jo who is a Moderator can tell you all about that: she lived in a villa by a stream which after heavy rain became a raging river and she simply couldn't get out of the house by car or on foot.

There is a glut of property on the market in most parts of Spain and prices reflect this. My son and daughter-in-law wanted to sell one of their properties but the offers they received were just silly so they withdrew the house from sale. I have a British friend who did exactly the same.

Generally speaking, there has been a drop of around 40 - 60% in the market overall although more expensive properties have depreciated less than middle range or cheaper ones. We live in one of the most expensive parts of the CdS and there are houses near us in the million plus euro bracket. They do occasionaly sell.

I can't see any advantage in building your own property when there is so much on offer to suit all price ranges. Of course you will know that Spain isn't like Bulgaria or even the Czech Republic where you can be considered wealthy on a very average income.
If you can offer cash you will most certainly pick up a bargain but first you have to travel around and find an area that suits you.

I am very happy where we are, in a small village (pop.1800) which is predominantly Spanish. If however you are a non-Spanish speaker that might not suit as there is a great deal of bureaucracy to be surmounted in house purchase and many other things.

So I would still say that like everything, when a house is 'cheap' there could be a good reason for it.
An example: a five bedroomed finca with pool, olive grove etc. has been on the market in the campo near here for ages for a silly price. The reason: two years ago a neighbouring property was engulfed in a mud slide after heavy rain and two people were killed. 

So 'caveat emptor' is a key principle for anyone buying in Spain - as anywhere.


----------



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

A friend of my OH's parents built a kit house and has been beset with hundreds of problems, not least of which the house is illegal (crooked mayor now in prison signed the permissions) and he is facing 4 years in prison for building it. The best advice I ever heard was buy a house already built and even if you don't need one, get a bank mortgage. The bank will not lend against a house with any legal problems.


----------



## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

IMO it is better to rent in a falling market and buy in a rising one. With so much on offer rents probably outweigh any benefit of owning. Also you can leave with a month's notice.

My brother is just bored in BG I think and wants a change. What would the rent be on a 300m2 house with pool?


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Thats a lot of house!!! Ours is 300sqm and its very big!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Cazzy said:


> Thats a lot of house!!! Ours is 300sqm and its very big!


wow - that IS roomy .............. over 3x the average Spanish home and 1.5x the average US home 

that's according to this - curiosity led me to look Average Home Sizes Around the World | Apartment Therapy


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Maybe he could rent mine!!! I wish I had something smaller, the housework, the dust!!!! I'm Inland of the Costa Del Sol though. A rental that size on the Costa will be very expensive. He must be rich.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Cazzy said:


> Maybe he could rent mine!!! I wish I had something smaller, the housework, the dust!!!! I'm Inland of the Costa Del Sol though. A rental that size on the Costa will be very expensive. He must be rich.



Well, our house is about that size,probably larger...I've just had a stroll round - sitting on two very large plots, one with building permission. We're not rich, just 'comfortable' but we like spacious houses. My dil is considering buying it for us as we do not want to own property ever again. There are photos on my album. We are a twenty minute walk from the beach, in a quiet area.There are quite a few properties round here for rent.

When we first rented the price was 2300 euros a month plus utilities of course but by the third year, having shown to be reliable tenants -we pay the rent in two chunks in advance - we succeeded in knocking it down quite a bit.

If we moved a few km inland the rent would be around 1000 euros...

Perhaps we should all move to Bulgaria where for the price of a studio apartment (or on the Golden Mile a garage) you can buy a palatial property.

Of course there are drawbacks living in a poor ex-Communist country, as we found in the Czech Republic, where the standard of living, although higher than Bulgaria, is still below that of 'western' countries.

But if you want to be flash without much cash.....Bulgaria is a place to go.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Cazzy said:


> Maybe he could rent mine!!! I wish I had something smaller, the housework, the dust!!!! I'm Inland of the Costa Del Sol though. A rental that size on the Costa will be very expensive. He must be rich.


We find the only real drawback of a house of this size is heating in winter. There is marble everywhere - staircases, floors, bathroom and kitchen walls - and while that's great in summer as we don't need air con as the rooms are spacious and well-ventlilated - it's not so good in winter. I've noticed that rentals around this area for houses of this size tend to be more expensive but the house is around fifteen years old and nothing has been done in the way of 'running repairs' since it was built. The house could do with a coat of paint outside and there are a few minor structural bits and pieces that aren't urgent but that you would fix if it were your property. Of course this will lower the selling price which could be in our interest. 

The architect who designed this house lives in an elaborate structure next door. In winter, pine scented smoke arises from his chimney - he has wood burners for heating. We don't....

Do you experience the same problems? This winter has been very mild so it's not been a problem in the daytime but we tend to heat just one room in the evening when we're reading or watching tv.

The reason we took this house was the huge garden for Our Little Azor to run around in...that and the pool. One part of the garden is really just a field and there are no elaborate borders with flowers, just bushes, shrubs and trees -loads of palms - so we don't need a gardener more than a few hours a month.

Far from being 'rich' (which these days is a vague, undefined concept as it merely means someone with apparently more money than you) we must be the paupers round here as we do our own housework and unlike most people who have gardens our size don't employ full-time gardeners. 

Interesting though to see that in the couple of streets of similar properties, most on large plots, around here,around 20% are for sale. I think many people who bought these houses during the boom years have found they are no longer 'rich'.


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> We find the only real drawback of a house of this size is heating in winter. There is marble everywhere - staircases, floors, bathroom and kitchen walls - and while that's great in summer as we don't need air con as the rooms are spacious and well-ventlilated - it's not so good in winter. I've noticed that rentals around this area for houses of this size tend to be more expensive but the house is around fifteen years old and nothing has been done in the way of 'running repairs' since it was built. The house could do with a coat of paint outside and there are a few minor structural bits and pieces that aren't urgent but that you would fix if it were your property. Of course this will lower the selling price which could be in our interest.
> 
> The architect who designed this house lives in an elaborate structure next door. In winter, pine scented smoke arises from his chimney - he has wood burners for heating. We don't....
> 
> ...



We have an open fire and a log burner. This year we have invested in a large pellet burner, which if you leave the doors open really warms up the house, we are on one level so I guess that makes it easier. We also have 5 air con units, which we tend not to use. In our winter kitchen we have an AGA cooker which is hot 24/7 so this helps. Our rooms are not huge apart from the summer lounge which is 55sqm, but we have lots of them. My husband is disabled so we could not be without heating, it gets colder inland than on the coast as well.

Our house is set on three plots totaling about 1,000sqm, all of which is tiled, with flower beds and the swimming pool, if I did decide to let it this would make it easier as when the tenants moved out I would not be faced with a jungle to sort out!!

I like the space, but want to different things now, so it is becoming more of a chore than before. We live in a lovely village and chances are that I would stay here, just in something smaller.

I haven't a clue what it would rent for, probably about 700 a month, I think I would rather sell!!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Cazzy said:


> We have an open fire and a log burner. This year we have invested in a large pellet burner, which if you leave the doors open really warms up the house, we are on one level so I guess that makes it easier. We also have 5 air con units, which we tend not to use. In our winter kitchen we have an AGA cooker which is hot 24/7 so this helps. Our rooms are not huge apart from the summer lounge which is 55sqm, but we have lots of them. My husband is disabled so we could not be without heating, it gets colder inland than on the coast as well.
> 
> Our house is set on three plots totaling about 1,000sqm, all of which is tiled, with flower beds and the swimming pool, if I did decide to let it this would make it easier as when the tenants moved out I would not be faced with a jungle to sort out!!
> 
> ...



Whereabouts are you?

If you have time, could you send a couple of photos via pm?

You would pay much more rent than that if you could pick up the house and transport it here....

It sounds ideal for us...

We are on two levels but the house has 'wings'....All the rooms are large and spacious, great in summer. Not so in winter although it's never really that cold here. The salon has a minstrel's gallery kind of thing so any heat generated disappears upwards then...disappears.


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for your interest but we think it would be best to sell it as anything we got in rent would go on renting another property. 

Caz


----------



## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

..
Properties here in Canada still work on Sq feet, so haven't a clue what the Sq metres are..

The problem hubby and I face with moving back to Europe is we are used to a lot of Sq feet and bang for our buck....for a fraction of the cost that we would have to pay in Spain or UK.

At present we have a house that is 4,800 sq ft with a triple garage (we only own 1 car) lol and it's on 3/4 acre with lake and mountain views... Unfortunately with the market being what it is we won't see much more than $600K canadian... I don't think we will get anything that's even close in the Costa Blanca..  


..


----------



## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Goldeneye said:


> ..
> Properties here in Canada still work on Sq feet, so haven't a clue what the Sq metres are..
> 
> The problem hubby and I face with moving back to Europe is we are used to a lot of Sq feet and bang for our buck....for a fraction of the cost that we would have to pay in Spain or UK.
> ...


I recall watching something on TV about a German family buying a pretty big house with lots of property somewhere in Andalusia. I can't tell you how big it was, but it was so big that they were going to rent certain rooms out for holiday makers. It cost 300K euros, maybe a bit more or a bit less.

Only catch is that it was pretty deep inland. In fact, it was very much in the middle of nowhere that it reminded me of the Canadian wilderness.


----------



## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

..
We want to get away from the Canadian wilderness, I want to go on walks and hikes and not worry about Bears and Cougars!!
I want to be able to walk back from my neighbours house at night and not be thinking about the Cougar prints in the snow I saw outside my door that morning.

Never mind in Bears (Black & Grizzly) that we have seen on numerous occasions..

I'd like our kitty Cats to have a 'outdoor life' The average life expectancy of a outdoor cat where we live is 3years! The coyotes find them a yummy treat!

We don't want t be more than a 15 - 20 minute drive from the coast...:confused2: 

..


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Goldeneye said:


> ..
> Properties here in Canada still work on Sq feet, so haven't a clue what the Sq metres are..
> 
> The problem hubby and I face with moving back to Europe is we are used to a lot of Sq feet and bang for our buck....for a fraction of the cost that we would have to pay in Spain or UK.
> ...


As a rough guide just divide by 10. Your 4,800 sq ft house is 480 sq m. very roughly - easy rule of thumb.


----------



## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Goldeneye said:


> ..
> We want to get away from the Canadian wilderness, I want to go on walks and hikes and not worry about Bears and Cougars!!
> I want to be able to walk back from my neighbours house at night and not be thinking about the Cougar prints in the snow I saw outside my door that morning.
> 
> ...


Not too sure if I would let my cats live outdoors in Spain. There are quite a few homeless cats in Spain, it's become such a problem that they put poison out on the streets to get rid of them without saying anything.

I hate to say it, but I don't think you'll be able to find such a big place to live in Spain as you do in Canada. 

I used to live in Ontario and have gone from a 6 bedroom house with lots of property to a 3 bedroom house with much less property in Scotland. The difference in price wasn't much.

That's just the way things are in Europe though. You'll get a smaller house but at least you'll be near the coast without bears or skunks in the backyard


----------



## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Sirtravelot said:


> Not too sure if I would let my cats live outdoors in Spain. There are quite a few homeless cats in Spain, it's become such a problem that they put poison out on the streets to get rid of them without saying anything.
> 
> I hate to say it, but I don't think you'll be able to find such a big place to live in Spain as you do in Canada.
> 
> ...



LOL ~ Luckily no skunks in the backyard !! Although, when we lived on the Island (Victoria) we took my sister over the Vancouver for the weekend ~ plenty of Skunks and Racoons in Stanley Park.. She stumbled upon a Skunk & shrieked, I told her.... actually shouted over to her to *SHUT UP* to *stay still *and let it move away on it's own ! I told her that I wasn't kidding, if she got skunked we would leave her in Vancouver and come back for her in a week! Luckily the tail only went half up and being used to people around didn't spray! PHEW!!

We used to sometimes get the smell drifting through our windows when we lived in Victoria when some unfortunate critter got it ! The smell is evil 

I hear ya on the 6 bedrooms, We have a 700sq ft glass studio, a home gym, Games/snooker room and home theatre room on our ground floor (walk out Basement) level.. We'll miss the Kitchen/breakfast/ family room layout of Canadian houses, although the 'formal dining and lounge' we only ever tend to use at Christmas or when we have visitors from the UK! So we can downsize a tad !! 

..


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Our house is 300sqm which is about 3231sqf. We are in a small Andalucian village, and yes it is very large for what it is. You can get some very large villas on the coast but they will be very expensive. Ours is just a large sprawling village house, not stunning to look at, just like any other village house but all on one level. Something like ours would be about 250k euro.


----------



## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Goldeneye said:


> LOL ~ Luckily no skunks in the backyard !! Although, when we lived on the Island (Victoria) we took my sister over the Vancouver for the weekend ~ plenty of Skunks and Racoons in Stanley Park.. She stumbled upon a Skunk & shrieked, I told her.... actually shouted over to her to *SHUT UP* to *stay still *and let it move away on it's own ! I told her that I wasn't kidding, if she got skunked we would leave her in Vancouver and come back for her in a week! Luckily the tail only went half up and being used to people around didn't spray! PHEW!!
> 
> We used to sometimes get the smell drifting through our windows when we lived in Victoria when some unfortunate critter got it ! The smell is evil
> 
> ...


We had skunk babies under our shed! That's all part of the Canada experience.

But yeah, in the end we were 2 people in a 6 bedroom house and it was far too big but getting used to the sizes in Europe takes some time.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Our house in rural Andalucía is twice the size of the one we had in England, though it's not enormous by any means. When you are retired you spend a lot more time at home and it's important to have plenty of living space, especially if there's two of you!

What's the price of petrol (gas) in Canada these days? It's approaching €1.50 a litre here, that´s about $C6 a gallon I think (?) It certainly makes a big difference to the cost of living in the countryside these days.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sirtravelot said:


> We had skunk babies under our shed! That's all part of the Canada experience.
> 
> But yeah, in the end we were 2 people in a 6 bedroom house and it was far too big but getting used to the sizes in Europe takes some time.


We had originally intended to retire to Canada - I have family in Quebec and in Ontario, in the Ottawa Valley. We bought a place in a small town (pop.4500) about an hour out of Ottawa, Almonte. It was a designated Heritage Building as it was constructed in 1870 something - this amused us as we lived in a two-hundred and fifty year old cottage in the UK.

The rooms were huge but well-ventilated and heated. It was a lovely old stone building, formerly a woollen mill. The town was compact and friendly with a reasonable range of shops and people seemed very friendly and welcoming. The surrounding countryside was beautiful and unspoilt and Ottawa was not too far for entertainment and a better choice of shops.

For various reasons, we decided eventually to stay in Europe so we sold the property at not far double the price we'd paid - we only owned it for a few years but a nearby town, Kanata, developed a hi-tech industry and young professionals were looking for the kind of property we had.

I went back a couple of years ago. What a lucky escape.... I know next to nothing about the Canadian economy but Almonte seemed to have died. About half the shops in the one main street had closed. A new mall was being constructed on the edge of town. There was a everywhere a pervasive sense of decline and hopelessness.

I enjoyed the time we spent in Canada - we visited every year for about ten years - but I don't think we would have been happy there. The 'friendliness' was a little too invasive for our liking...everyone not only knew everyone else but knew _about _everyone else.

But it was a very beautiful rural area with loads of wildlife, including skunks and bears. Once, whilst walking my cousin's dogs in a neighbour's vast property, I stumbled across a baby bear....I made a swift and silent retreat, walking backwards as I remembered someone advising, until I was well out of sight then I ran like the wind...


----------



## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Our house in rural Andalucía is twice the size of the one we had in England, though it's not enormous by any means. When you are retired you spend a lot more time at home and it's important to have plenty of living space, especially if there's two of you!
> 
> What's the price of petrol (gas) in Canada these days? It's approaching €1.50 a litre here, that´s about $C6 a gallon I think (?) It certainly makes a big difference to the cost of living in the countryside these days.


It's $1.30 a litre here....Of course everything is further away so you spend a lot more travel time/gas going from town to town..

Compromising on living space is going to be the big one for us, but then again having a great selection of towns and villages at hand, a longer 'outdoor' season as well as all the walking and cultural activities available should more than make up for it! 

When we first moved here most things were a lot cheaper. We're starting to clear out the years of accumalated junk _(not wanting it to move it with us)_ In the process I came across a half written letter to a friend in UK, I wrote it 20 years ago shortly after moving to Canada, looking at the prices In the letter I would say that from being 30% -50% cheaper in 1992 for most things _( from an Iceburg lettuce, to meat, cinema tickets etc_) We are more expensive than in the UK even for fruit, veggies, cheese, and bread, the exceptions to this being housing & Fuel which are still cheaper here in Canada..

Not sure what property taxes are like in the UK or Spain now, we pay $3,600 for our home, (after HOG.. Home owner grant) which is a discount you are given if it's your primary residence.. 
Our property taxes (rates) doesn't include garbage pick up or water...


----------

