# Health Insurance / School question / Child benefit question



## neptuno3 (Jul 18, 2010)

Hi all --

My husband and son are both EU citizens (Ireland). We are moving to Seville, Spain.

Questions:

1. Do my son and husband have to buy health insurance or are they covered under their EU citizenship? 

2. We would like to place our son in Spanish-language state school. He will be 3 years old when we move there. Do the public schools start that young? If so could do you know of a public school (all schools I've found were private).

3. As Irish citizens we are entitled to Ireland's Child Benefit. Does Spain have a child benefit? If not will Ireland still give us the Child Benefit even though we live outside Ireland?

Thank you!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm no expert but UK Child Benefit is not payable outside the UK. As for health care you will be covered only for emergencies and will not qualify for regional health care until you have worked and paid into the system.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Child allowance is only payable if one parent is working/paying into the UK system AND living there (for more than 183 days), It doesnt matter where the kids are! And the money has to be claimed by the UK parent! Spain doesnt have child benefit, well not in the same way as the UK

Health care is covered by NHIC until you are residents in Spain. Then you can claim in Spain as long as you are paying into the Spanish system

As for schools, most schools in Spain have nursery schools attached, I dont know if you have to pay for them until they start "proper" school at 6 - but at 6, state schools are free - well apart from paying for books, stationary etc

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Child allowance is only payable if one parent is working/paying into the UK system AND living there (for more than 183 days), It doesnt matter where the kids are! And the money has to be claimed by the UK parent!
> 
> Health care is covered by NHIC until you are residence in Spain. Then you can claim in Spain as long as you are paying into the Spanish system
> 
> ...



Do you know how long you have to contribute to get free health care?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Do you know how long you have to contribute to get free health care?



No :tape: In fact I'm a bit hazy on the whole healthcare thing in Spain!! I should know shouldnt I!!!!


Jo xxx


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

If you are not entitled for full NHS cover or it ran out (i think it was 30 months in spain), there are basically 3 to 4 ways to get health cover in spain.

1.) Fully employed, you pay into the spanish system
2.) Self employed (autonomo), you pay into the spanish system (expensive)
3.) Take out private healtcare, Sanitas is one of the most famous and cheapest providers in spain (there are different health plans available starting at 16 EUR a month for a 29 yrs old male, from there ramping up depending on cover)
4.) In the Valencia region you can buy into the public health sector, it´s not cheap and not for everyone


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## youngagepensioner (May 18, 2009)

.............Or be a British State Pensioner or on long-term Incapacity Benefit from the UK when you and your dependents will be covered for full Spanish Healthcare by the Department of Work and Pensions.


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi, you qualify for health care from the first day you´re "on the system" - either as employed or self-employed.

In addition to the 3 main ways mentioned above, people qualify for free health in number of other ways. The most relevant one is a system called "sin recursos" (low income)). In theory at least, anyone with an income of less than around 7,000 euros qualfies.

The Government has announced plans change the current very complex system in November and make access to health care universal, so things may look different in a few months time.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

timr said:


> The Government has announced plans change the current very complex system in November and make access to health care universal, so things may look different in a few months time.


So do we really think that a country in Financial crisis and trying to introduce cutbacks is knowingly going to offer free healthcare to the millions of expats that are living here without a chance of getting it back from their respective governments?


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> So do we really think that a country in Financial crisis and trying to introduce cutbacks is knowingly going to offer free healthcare to the millions of expats that are living here without a chance of getting it back from their respective governments?


Possibly. Hopefully, things will become clearer over the next couple of months. Estimates of the number of people currently excluded from the system vary between 90,000 and 276,000. Those figures include foreign residents. The cross-party agreements reached to date apply equally to Spanish nationals and foreign residents. Also bear in mind that the foreign residents are currently excluded from the system on exactly the same basis as the Spanish people. It´s not an issue of nationality. So if the Government includes the remaining Spanish nationals then it should follow that foreign residents also go through the same door. 

The Government has committed to making these changes. It has support from all the parties in Congress and it is the only point agreed to date in the "Health care Pact". So this is going happen. At the moment it is a case of waiting for details to emerge before we see how foreign residents are going to be treated.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> So do we really think that a country in Financial crisis and trying to introduce cutbacks is knowingly going to offer free healthcare to the millions of expats that are living here without a chance of getting it back from their respective governments?


Well they'd better do something to get the millions of 20+ and 30+ living with mum and grans who are retired and thus everyone's covered - on they're bikes and looking to dosomething with their lives and not worry about not being able to get a doctors appointment if they need one. A healthy country is a prosperous one - not to be confused with handouts, but medical cover is a long time comming - and Galicia already have it, since 2008, you're empadronado here, you're covered.


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Xose said:


> Well they'd better do something to get the millions of 20+ and 30+ living with mum and grans who are retired and thus everyone's covered - on they're bikes and looking to dosomething with their lives and not worry about not being able to get a doctors appointment if they need one. A healthy country is a prosperous one - not to be confused with handouts, but medical cover is a long time comming - and Galicia already have it, since 2008, you're empadronado here, you're covered.


And in Cataloña as well from the start of this month. :clap2:


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

So who's going to pay for it?
Valencia cut out the free healthcare a year or so ago, and they have introduced a pay as you go system of €270ish a quarter per person.

If they integrate millions of foreigners on top of the remaining Spaniards into the system it will cost them a fortune that they wont get back from the respective governments.


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> So who's going to pay for it?
> Valencia cut out the free healthcare a year or so ago, and they have introduced a pay as you go system of €270ish a quarter per person.
> 
> If they integrate millions of foreigners on top of the remaining Spaniards into the system it will cost them a fortune that they wont get back from the respective governments.


The upper estimate for those currently excluded from is 276,000 (from Spanish Ombudsman) _including_ foreign residents. The cost is estimated at under 150,000 million euros - less 0.5 percent of health budget. Where do you get these millions of people from ?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> So who's going to pay for it?
> Valencia cut out the free healthcare a year or so ago, and they have introduced a pay as you go system of €270ish a quarter per person.
> 
> If they integrate millions of foreigners on top of the remaining Spaniards into the system it will cost them a fortune that they wont get back from the respective governments.


Apparently it will increase the bill by 0,25 of 1% & that's the gov. figure. 

Seb* you missed no. 5 that timr pointed out ' extranjeros titular sin recursos ' Basically if you have no income , you are entitled. If you are signed on & not in receipt of unemployment benefit then they can't turn you down !


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Here's the link posted on a thread in april. EL GOBIERNO VUELVE A ANUNCIAR LA LEGALIZACIÓN DE LA UNIVERSALIDAD DE LA ASISTENCIA SANITARIA PÚBLICA | Boletín Informativo de la Sanidad Pública

Just popped back in to my memory is an article I was reading @ the weekend stating that it will happen because it has the total backing of the illustrious abogados who are apparently excuded from the existing health system ( probably on the grounds of high earnings ) & have to buy private cover for themselves & family !


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Here's the link posted on a thread in april. EL GOBIERNO VUELVE A ANUNCIAR LA LEGALIZACIÓN DE LA UNIVERSALIDAD DE LA ASISTENCIA SANITARIA PÚBLICA | Boletín Informativo de la Sanidad Pública
> 
> Just popped back in to my memory is an article I was reading @ the weekend stating that it will happen because it has the total backing of the illustrious abogados who are apparently excuded from the existing health system ( probably on the grounds of high earnings ) & have to buy private cover for themselves & family !


They´ve been lobbying like mad for this change for at least the past two years and are the single largest group currently excluded from this system. The abogados excluded themselves from the system voluntarily over 20 years ago when health care was still funded from the Social Security contributions, preferring pay into a system of "mutuas" to cover their health care. Now that the system is financed from general taxation they´re arguing that their exclusion is unfair - they pay for it through taxes therefore why shouldn´t the be allowed to use it ?

By definition abogados have never made a single contribution to the Social Security. So if they´re allowed onto the system that pretty must opens the door for the other groups currently excluded. What other criteria could the Government use to continue excluding people ?


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> Here's the link posted on a thread in april. EL GOBIERNO VUELVE A ANUNCIAR LA LEGALIZACIÓN DE LA UNIVERSALIDAD DE LA ASISTENCIA SANITARIA PÚBLICA | Boletín Informativo de la Sanidad Pública
> 
> Just popped back in to my memory is an article I was reading @ the weekend stating that it will happen because it has the total backing of the illustrious abogados who are apparently excuded from the existing health system ( probably on the grounds of high earnings ) & have to buy private cover for themselves & family !


...and they'll cover that easily with the automated processes that have been so long in arriving and have proved to be so good at the Seguridad Social main offices (as opposed to the medical arm which is a 1960's admin joke). Couple to that the actual issuing of medicines needed as opposed to 20/30 or whatever of anything prescribed, even if only 7 are required... and lots of savings to be had. The electronic prescription has already been in action for a while, and although there are many problems, the load at the GP's has been significantly reduced. Effectively then, Spain.SL should stop wasting so many man hours at the surgery. Now all they have to do is find all these extra man hours something productive to do and we're there!!


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Xose said:


> ...and they'll cover that easily with the automated processes that have been so long in arriving and have proved to be so good at the Seguridad Social main offices (as opposed to the medical arm which is a 1960's admin joke). Couple to that the actual issuing of medicines needed as opposed to 20/30 or whatever of anything prescribed, even if only 7 are required... and lots of savings to be had. The electronic prescription has already been in action for a while, and although there are many problems, the load at the GP's has been significantly reduced. Effectively then, Spain.SL should stop wasting so many man hours at the surgery. Now all they have to do is find all these extra man hours something productive to do and we're there!!


Maybe administering the co-pago system which the Government keep saying will never happen.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

timr said:


> The upper estimate for those currently excluded from is 276,000 (from Spanish Ombudsman) _including_ foreign residents. The cost is estimated at under 150,000 million euros - less 0.5 percent of health budget. Where do you get these millions of people from ?


Interesting.

We're talking ALL foreign residents, not just Brits, eh? So they reckon 276000 including the Spanish, Spanish abogados, and all foreign residents?

Well in 2005 there were supposed to be 3,69 million foreign residents living in Spain, and those were the ones that bothered to register.

In 2007 Giles Tremlett wrote an article highlighting that there were 760,000 brits alone living here registered, and that was possibly only a third of the real total here

Obviously thats 3 years ago, and obviously a number are going to be pensioners or working who get health care anyway. But theres also the ones that haven't registered because they keep their NHS health going by pretending to be a UK resident still because they couldnt get cover here! And this is of course just the Brits ... then you have the Germans, Dutch, French etc etc

I'm not knocking it, Im just interested that they think the figure is so low, and bearing in mind the Valencian authorities just knocked free healthcare for all on the head and introduced a paying system because of how much it had been costing them.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Interesting.
> 
> We're talking ALL foreign residents, not just Brits, eh? So they reckon 276000 including the Spanish, Spanish abogados, and all foreign residents?
> 
> ...



One has to ask oneself, empadronado, resident, tax resident, paying all relevent taxes and with an NT code in the UK or wherever they come from - or put another way, doing IRPF and declaring fully here. Still think the number's low for those pre-retired, registered in INEM and not working or receiving paro??? I think it's quite high actually.


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

Xose said:


> Well they'd better do something to get the millions of 20+ and 30+ living with mum and grans who are retired and thus everyone's covered - on they're bikes and looking to dosomething with their lives and not worry about not being able to get a doctors appointment if they need one. A healthy country is a prosperous one - not to be confused with handouts, but medical cover is a long time comming - and Galicia already have it, since 2008, you're empadronado here, you're covered.


For Galicia that's very interesting. We are British, resident in Northern Galicia,early retirees and not entitled to an E106. We were told in September 2009 we had to wait until we had reached UK state retirement age and would need private health insurance until then! 

We shall make further enquires. Does the legislation apply to foreigners who are not working and below retirement age? Are there low income requirements? What information should we be providing in addition to our Certificado De Empadronamiento? It all sounds to good to be true given the general situation across Spain i.e. there must be a catch!

There is a local doctor in the Spanish NHS who speaks English but with Sanitas we have to travel 50Km to see one who does not speak much English! Similarly the nearest Sanitas approved A&E is in A Coruna, 50kms from us. 

Furrther information will be gratefully received.


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## timr (Feb 1, 2010)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> For Galicia that's very interesting. We are British, resident in Northern Galicia,early retirees and not entitled to an E106. We were told in September 2009 we had to wait until we had reached UK state retirement age and would need private health insurance until then!
> 
> We shall make further enquires. Does the legislation apply to foreigners who are not working and below retirement age? Are there low income requirements? What information should we be providing in addition to our Certificado De Empadronamiento? It all sounds to good to be true given the general situation across Spain i.e. there must be a catch!
> 
> ...


Galicia passed as law in 2008 which guarantees access to public health care for anyone living in the region. Here´s a link to the law (see Articulo 4);

http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_d...8-2008.t1.html

Here´s how it was reported at the time in the Voz de Galicia

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/galicia...03_7172087.htm


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

neptuno3 said:


> Hi all --
> 
> My husband and son are both EU citizens (Ireland). We are moving to Seville, Spain.
> 
> ...


With regards to your second question :
- 3 year olds generally start what is called 'Pre-School' around the 9th of September in Spain, before that they usually attend a 'Guarderia' or Nursery. My daughter attended a Nursery between being 6 months old and just last week, when she stopped to start attending Pre-school.
The costs for Nursery are very low when compared to other Countries - We were paying 80 Euros ( Mornings only ) and 150 Euros ( Full time ) per Month. The Spanish ones are closely regulated and subsidised by the state and can often only accomodate a small number of younger babies due to the staffing issues.
The Nursery was also a very useful and important tool in 'easing the passage' into pre-school. ( Neither Pre-school or Nursery is compulsory - education is only compulsory from the age of 5).
Whilst 3 years old may seem very young to attend school, the adaption process is done very slowly and gently over a number of weeks, and even at her third day of school (today) my daughter can not wait to attend. It really just seems to be centred around structured play, and teaching the kids to hold their attention on certain things in order to prepare them for 'big school'.


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