# mobile coffee trading



## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

hi all,im thinking of relocating to the alicante region and want to start a mobile coffee van,selling cappuccinos,lattes etc,i would like to do it on the local markets.
im hoping that someone could give me details if i would be allowed to trade and if so what are the rules,regs,licences,cost etc,many thanks


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pregster said:


> hi all,im thinking of relocating to the alicante region and want to start a mobile coffee van,selling cappuccinos,lattes etc,i would like to do it on the local markets.
> im hoping that someone could give me details if i would be allowed to trade and if so what are the rules,regs,licences,cost etc,many thanks


Have you visited the alicante region?? Have you seen any businesses similar? Have you done any other research??

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

pregster said:


> hi all,im thinking of relocating to the alicante region and want to start a mobile coffee van,selling cappuccinos,lattes etc,i would like to do it on the local markets.
> im hoping that someone could give me details if i would be allowed to trade and if so what are the rules,regs,licences,cost etc,many thanks


I'd take some time to do a lot of research
The reason being, drinking coffee is a national pastime and I'm guessing you are going to find a fair amount of competition.

The biggest market around here is Pedregeur. Its on an industrial estate. Theres a fixed cafe there (part of a kitchen sales shop, strangely) and also two or three "mobile" cafes around the place.

So you're going to be competing with others, and you are also going to be selling coffee at around €1 - €1.25 a cup.

Add up the licence costs, the plot costs, the equipment costs, the product costs & the equipment maintenance charges, and then work out how many cups of coffee you are going to have to sell to make any kind of profit that is worthwhile for you spending 6 hours at the market.

Job done


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> I'd take some time to do a lot of research
> The reason being, drinking coffee is a national pastime and I'm guessing you are going to find a fair amount of competition.
> 
> The biggest market around here is Pedregeur. Its on an industrial estate. Theres a fixed cafe there (part of a kitchen sales shop, strangely) and also two or three "mobile" cafes around the place.
> ...


I tend to agree... you don't see many coffee vans about but that probably because of the endless streets of coffee shops! The Spanish have their favourites and they are on every street corner (and usually every 4th or 5th shop too).


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> I'd take some time to do a lot of research
> The reason being, drinking coffee is a national pastime and I'm guessing you are going to find a fair amount of competition.
> 
> The biggest market around here is Pedregeur. Its on an industrial estate. Theres a fixed cafe there (part of a kitchen sales shop, strangely) and also two or three "mobile" cafes around the place.
> ...



thanks for your replies,ive not been to the area but have a friend that goes there yearly,i was looking for quite busy places to trade and areas were renting accomodation is reasonable and ended up with alicante,there is probably a whole host of places i could go but its knowing were to start.
i had a mobile coffee van in blighty and i know that here i could produce a 10oz cup of coffee @37p a cup so margins are good,but obviously i dont know the cost of fees in spain to which i can trade,also i dont know the ins/outs of registering a english vehicle in spain or even if its poss


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pregster said:


> thanks for your replies,ive not been to the area but have a friend that goes there yearly,i was looking for quite busy places to trade and areas were renting accomodation is reasonable and ended up with alicante,there is probably a whole host of places i could go but its knowing were to start.
> i had a mobile coffee van in blighty and i know that here i could produce a 10oz cup of coffee @37p a cup so margins are good,but obviously i dont know the cost of fees in spain to which i can trade,also i dont know the ins/outs of registering a english vehicle in spain or even if its poss



You cant register English commercial vehicles in Spain. You would also have to pay autonomo which is around 250€ a month to be allowed to work as self employed. At 37p a coffee, margins maybe good, but you'd need a fair few sales to cover costs - let alone make a profit

Jo xxx


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

jojo said:


> Have you visited the alicante region?? Have you seen any businesses similar? Have you done any other research??
> 
> Jo xxx


not yet jo,just wanted to get a bit of feedback before i do as i dont want to go just to be knocked back,at least if its possible and even hard then its worth me going and finding out everything i need to know x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pregster said:


> not yet jo,just wanted to get a bit of feedback before i do as i dont want to go just to be knocked back,at least if its possible and even hard then its worth me going and finding out everything i need to know x


At the risk of sounding negative, I wouldnt pursue this one. Coffee is important to the Spanish, they know what they like and they know where they like it. tourists tend to like Spanish coffee and prefer to sit outside of coffee bars and for you have seating outside would be evenmore expense. I would imagine that the cost of getting over there, setting up, locating suppliers, red tape, regulations, autonomo will make it far too costly for any possible profits or rewards

Jo xxx


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

jojo said:


> You cant register English commercial vehicles in Spain. You would also have to pay autonomo which is around 250€ a month to be allowed to work as self employed. At 37p a coffee, margins maybe good, but you'd need a fair few sales to cover costs - let alone make a profit
> 
> Jo xxx


Quite right... cars can be imported but RHD commercial vehicles cannot. You would have to buy one in Spain or find a LHD one in the uk!

You would also need permission from the authorities to trade. Hows your Spanish? I don't think its going to be easy to convert hardcore coffee fans to something new, especially plastic cups!


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

What about a good mobile fish and chip van
I dont think you will make enough money to support a mobile van on coffee alone
Decent coffee is around 18 euros a bag 100 cups @1.25 = 1.25€
autonomo per month 250.0
Fuel ,iva site fee ,licence, you would most certainly need other products to sell
Good luck


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tonyinspain said:


> What about a good mobile fish and chip van
> I dont think you will make enough money to support a mobile van on coffee alone
> Decent coffee is around 18 euros a bag 100 cups @1.25 = 1.25€
> autonomo per month 250.0
> ...



There are some funny laws in Spain about mobile catering vans tho arent there - I dont know what they are or if they're the same in every district, but you dont see many....... Besides, the OP already as a coffee van in the UK that he was thinking of bringing over

Jo xxx


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

jojo said:


> At the risk of sounding negative, I wouldnt pursue this one. Coffee is important to the Spanish, they know what they like and they know where they like it. tourists tend to like Spanish coffee and prefer to sit outside of coffee bars and for you have seating outside would be evenmore expense. I would imagine that the cost of getting over there, setting up, locating suppliers, red tape, regulations, autonomo will make it far too costly for any possible profits or rewards
> 
> Jo xxx


hey its not being neg jo its being realistic,obviously here when i traded i knew exactly what was what,i used to average 80-120 cups a day where i traded and i knew what taxes i had to pay to the taxman and cost of my site,is autonomo the only tax i would pay apart from plot/site fee and licences,if so then its still worthwhile me taking a trip and seeing the scene for myself.
but already its opened my eyes with your replies as even the point of vehicle allowance ie i would have to buy a spanish registered van and the difference in cost to the uk is out of this world,but at least i now have a idea of whats what x


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

pregster said:


> thanks for your replies,ive not been to the area but have a friend that goes there yearly,i was looking for quite busy places to trade and areas were renting accomodation is reasonable and ended up with alicante,there is probably a whole host of places i could go but its knowing were to start.
> i had a mobile coffee van in blighty and i know that here i could produce a 10oz cup of coffee @37p a cup so margins are good,but obviously i dont know the cost of fees in spain to which i can trade,also i dont know the ins/outs of registering a english vehicle in spain or even if its poss


Well ... to inject a bit of positivity into the discussion 
Businesses grows from people like you trying to start them 
You have the mind to start a business, you just need to choose the right one.

As said I think you will find the costs alone too much on this one. The commercial machines alone are £3k upwards in the UK, and you need a maintenance contract. Plus, as stated above you will need to pay autonomo rates, and find yourself a suitable van ..... thats a lot of cups of coffee 

Maybe look around and choose another area to start a business. If you or your husband have any skills for instance. If instant profits are not a necessity then I'm sure given the right business and determination you may well be able to make a go of it.


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

steve_in_spain said:


> Quite right... cars can be imported but RHD commercial vehicles cannot. You would have to buy one in Spain or find a LHD one in the uk!
> 
> You would also need permission from the authorities to trade. Hows your Spanish? I don't think its going to be easy to convert hardcore coffee fans to something new, especially plastic cups!



i can get lhd vans here and thanks for the info on spanish hardcore coffee drinkers steve lol, my last set up was outside a train station so my customers was students,commutors etc, and no plastic cups haha (quality cardboard lol, just the same as a take out costa/starbucks etc


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

pregster said:


> i can get lhd vans here and thanks for the info on spanish hardcore coffee drinkers steve lol, my last set up was outside a train station so my customers was students,commutors etc, and no plastic cups haha (quality cardboard lol, just the same as a take out costa/starbucks etc


Well... i work as a business consultant and help startups and a little secret for you....Starbucks is an amazing business model so please don't count on what i say as being accurate... do your homework! I actually spoke with them about franchising in some key areas that would be so popular in Spain but they have a handful of outlets and have given the entire rights to spain to one particular company.

Nevertheless.... (and i havn;t really tested the viability of this if it wills seriously hold water) but my gut says that specialist coffee like starbucks would do well... in train stations, on street corners. When you said coffee.. i thought you were referring to bog standard cafe con leche or cafe solo... for that.. forget it, but if you go in with something really fancy and do iced coffee in summer, frothy ones, ones with cream, funky hot chocolate i think it would do well....

you have to get branding and presence right! it is something i considered but don't have the time to devote to it... still not sure mobile is a sound route to take, better off in a busy location (train station, main shopping area) where you are there every day and people get into the "Starbucks habit" of grabbing a takeaway creamy delight on their way to work every morning!

Do some research... but i do think this potentially if it is what i am now thinning it is could be a potential... but has to be different to the rest of the coffee places... go american... go creamy... cater for hot weather too... and build your own brand!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

steve_in_spain said:


> Well... i work as a business consultant and help startups and a little secret for you....Starbucks is an amazing business model so please don't count on what i say as being accurate... do your homework! I actually spoke with them about franchising in some key areas that would be so popular in Spain but they have a handful of outlets and have given the entire rights to spain to one particular company.
> 
> Nevertheless.... (and i havn;t really tested the viability of this if it wills seriously hold water) but my gut says that specialist coffee like starbucks would do well... in train stations, on street corners. When you said coffee.. i thought you were referring to bog standard cafe con leche or cafe solo... for that.. forget it, but if you go in with something really fancy and do iced coffee in summer, frothy ones, ones with cream, funky hot chocolate i think it would do well....
> 
> ...


............. and I dont think a mobile van would be quite the right image??? But as steve says, get it right......????

Jo xxx


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

steve_in_spain said:


> Well... i work as a business consultant and help startups and a little secret for you....Starbucks is an amazing business model so please don't count on what i say as being accurate... do your homework! I actually spoke with them about franchising in some key areas that would be so popular in Spain but they have a handful of outlets and have given the entire rights to spain to one particular company.
> 
> Nevertheless.... (and i havn;t really tested the viability of this if it wills seriously hold water) but my gut says that specialist coffee like starbucks would do well... in train stations, on street corners. When you said coffee.. i thought you were referring to bog standard cafe con leche or cafe solo... for that.. forget it, but if you go in with something really fancy and do iced coffee in summer, frothy ones, ones with cream, funky hot chocolate i think it would do well....
> 
> ...


yes steve its proper coffee from a proper esspresso machine, i used lavazza coffee and obviously did different drinks, esspresso,latte,cappuccino,americano etc
defenatly not kettle boiled garbish, and to be honest a train station would suit me better as its just a one stop shop so to speak,that way as here i would get my locals on a daily basic,the only reason im thinking van in spain is that its a one off outlay, my last set up cost me £4000, but once its done then my only cost would be licence,autonomo,plot otherwise a building/shop outlet would cost that alone in kitting out then id have rent/rates etc on top


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

jojo said:


> ............. and I dont think a mobile van would be quite the right image??? But as steve says, get it right......????
> 
> Jo xxx


my last van jo was named the cheeky cappuccino,and had signwritting with a coffee bean sat on a sack of beans and i must say a hell of alot of people commented on it and got lots of smiles,it did look quite nice


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

pregster said:


> yes steve its proper coffee from a proper esspresso machine, i used lavazza coffee and obviously did different drinks, esspresso,latte,cappuccino,americano etc
> defenatly not kettle boiled garbish, and to be honest a train station would suit me better as its just a one stop shop so to speak,that way as here i would get my locals on a daily basic,the only reason im thinking van in spain is that its a one off outlay, my last set up cost me £4000, but once its done then my only cost would be licence,autonomo,plot otherwise a building/shop outlet would cost that alone in kitting out then id have rent/rates etc on top


I agree.... but weigh it up (do your homework)... lets say ... imagine... little local inside or close to a train station... every day thousand of passing commuters, many workers, all in a hurry... they get to know you are there... 2000 a month rent is 60 a day (roughly)... your probably pay that for a days pitch to put your caravan! Get your coffee suppliers, bagel suppliers etch to all chip in towards the costs... machines etc... most breweries (not sure if booze if a good idea but maybe coca cola will do the same) will kit out your tables and chairs etc... few comfy sofas! Bob's your uncle!

Special weekly coffee... some snacks... cakes, pasties, fast and instant things to take away... do hunts and bagels etc... in the right place could do very well...

Coffee from a trendy shop like this carries a higher value... i paid about 4 euros in starbucks at the airport...lets say we go in at 3... cat recall your cost, but lets say it costs you 50c to make the coffee and cup etc... thats 2.50. 25 a day and your rent is paid!

Im spurting off numbers out of thin air and thats not the right things to do (i am also giving away a business idea i gave a lot of thought to which is equally a bad idea on my part without charging you a heavy sum) but it could be a nice earner... then of course later franchise it out.... 50k a pop plus 10% of the till... (I'm a franchise specialist so can maybe earn a buck or two out of you there jajaja)...

For me appeals much more than getting up at 5am to pitch up my caravan at a market! (no disprespect to yrou current business of course!)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The liquid provided by Starbucks resembles coffee only in colour...and not always even that.
Coffee is the only hot drink I consume. I have never had a cup of tea in my life -the smell makes me heave -and I can drink only black coffee, preferably espresso, with no milk or sugar.
Instant coffee has the same effect on me as tea.
Now all that may sound a bit precious but that's just how it is. We spent 800 euros on a Saeco machine a year ago-the sort that weighs and grinds the beans - and if it's as good as the last Krups similar machine we had it will last us over ten years. The coffee it produces is truly excellent. It isn't really extravagant as we use it several times a day -first thing I do before making breaklfast is to make a shot of espresso for me and OH.
If I could find anywhere that can produce a cup of coffee as good as that I can make at home I would be a very regular, faithful customer. I don't care if it came from a cafe, a mobile van or a bucket.
Of course you'll get the best coffee in Italy, especially in the South, but Spain runs it a close second.
Most places that sell 'coffee' in the UK should be fined under the Trades Descriptions Act.
I've often wondered: is it the same with tea? Is it hard to get a decent cup of tea when you're out in the UK, Spain..anywhere?
I'm off to make an espresso....
Btw, Lavazza is good as is Illy.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> The liquid provided by Starbucks resembles coffee only in colour...and not always even that.
> Coffee is the only hot drink I consume. I have never had a cup of tea in my life -the smell makes me heave -and I can drink only black coffee, preferably espresso, with no milk or sugar.
> Instant coffee has the same effect on me as tea.
> Now all that may sound a bit precious but that's just how it is. We spent 800 euros on a Saeco machine a year ago-the sort that weighs and grinds the beans - and if it's as good as the last Krups similar machine we had it will last us over ten years. The coffee it produces is truly excellent. It isn't really extravagant as we use it several times a day -first thing I do before making breaklfast is to make a shot of espresso for me and OH.
> ...


From a business point of view though Mary people do go for the frothy frappacinos, and the caramel machiatos and all that jazz... My point is that theres a million places selling "coffee" but something different (along the hugely successful starbucks line) would make a lot more money than another place churning out coffee... know what i mean chuck?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> From a business point of view though Mary people do go for the frothy frappacinos, and the caramel machiatos and all that jazz... My point is that theres a million places selling "coffee" but something different (along the hugely successful starbucks line) would make a lot more money than another place churning out coffee... know what i mean chuck?


Yes, I agree completely. But for a lot of people drinking coffee is more of a 'social' thing....taste and flavour doesn't matter quite so much when you're nattering to your mates.
I know what I wrote sounded a bit snobby but when coffee is your only hot beverage it gets you like that...
If I'm desperate for an espresso whilst in the UK I'll look for a Cafe Nero.
The worst espresso I have EVER had was last year in the Costa Coffee outlet at the SEC in Glasgow. It was like the dregs in my cafetiere and they had the brass neck to describe it as 'espresso'....no 'crema' and it cost £2!!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I agree completely. But for a lot of people drinking coffee is more of a 'social' thing....taste and flavour doesn't matter quite so much when you're nattering to your mates.
> I know what I wrote sounded a bit snobby but when coffee is your only hot beverage it gets you like that...
> If I'm desperate for an espresso whilst in the UK I'll look for a Cafe Nero.
> The worst espresso I have EVER had was last year in the Costa Coffee outlet at the SEC in Glasgow. It was like the dregs in my cafetiere and they had the brass neck to describe it as 'espresso'....no 'crema' and it cost £2!!


I think you hit the nail on the head there about a social thing... this is why the likes of starbucks, costa, nero etc all do so well... they offer a wide range of coffees (which may or may not be to everyones liking) but they also offer a comfortable place to relax with friends and chat or hook up to the wifi and work (which in London is what draws many people to starbucks... go upstairs in any london starbucks and there are guaranteed to be at least a dozen workers with their MacBooks tuned into the wifi and supping a brew)...

So i think you do have to offer amazing coffee... for the coffee experts like you those people will go anywhere and as you said, happily buy it form a caravan if you know its amazing, but for others they want a relaxing ambience.

Tip to starbucks: Get waiters going round collecting empties and saying "would you like another"... too many people sit with one coffee for 4 hours using the internet... they would happily buy 2 or 3 if they are in grossed but usually don't want the hassle of unplugging and lining up again!

I agree about costa coffee... only been twice in London but no more! Vial! Mother in law has the same type of thing that you have mary and its divine!


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> The liquid provided by Starbucks resembles coffee only in colour...and not always even that.
> Coffee is the only hot drink I consume. I have never had a cup of tea in my life -the smell makes me heave -and I can drink only black coffee, preferably espresso, with no milk or sugar.
> Instant coffee has the same effect on me as tea.
> Now all that may sound a bit precious but that's just how it is. We spent 800 euros on a Saeco machine a year ago-the sort that weighs and grinds the beans - and if it's as good as the last Krups similar machine we had it will last us over ten years. The coffee it produces is truly excellent. It isn't really extravagant as we use it several times a day -first thing I do before making breaklfast is to make a shot of espresso for me and OH.
> ...


thanks for that and yes lavazza is simply the best all round coffee you can buy,but its not just the coffee that makes a bad cup its 99% of the time the operator who hasnt got a clue,its down to the grinding of the bean and im quite a good barista not the best but good enough to serve a nice coffee


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

pregster said:


> thanks for that and yes lavazza is simply the best all round coffee you can buy,but its not just the coffee that makes a bad cup its 99% of the time the operator who hasnt got a clue,its down to the grinding of the bean and im quite a good barista not the best but good enough to serve a nice coffee


If you come round my way I'll try you and if I'm satisfied you won't need another customer


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## pregster (Feb 15, 2012)

steve_in_spain said:


> I agree.... but weigh it up (do your homework)... lets say ... imagine... little local inside or close to a train station... every day thousand of passing commuters, many workers, all in a hurry... they get to know you are there... 2000 a month rent is 60 a day (roughly)... your probably pay that for a days pitch to put your caravan! Get your coffee suppliers, bagel suppliers etch to all chip in towards the costs... machines etc... most breweries (not sure if booze if a good idea but maybe coca cola will do the same) will kit out your tables and chairs etc... few comfy sofas! Bob's your uncle!
> 
> Special weekly coffee... some snacks... cakes, pasties, fast and instant things to take away... do hunts and bagels etc... in the right place could do very well...
> 
> ...


hi steve,yes ive looked at bars and they vary in price range,ive seen some priced at 4000e with as little as 500 per month rent,obviously if its near a train station prices may be higher and at least i would have something to work on as it would only need slight tweeking to start and maybe still sell beer but im not sure on the laws of shop rental and would the automono be the same, and many thanks for youe input,your being very helpful


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