# Recovering Former Invested Assets.



## happynerd

So here's the story. I was working in Tokyo for a big company in Japan from 2011 to 2013. In 2013, I got transferred back to the country where I hold citizenship (the USA). I left my stocks accounts open, and my Japanese bank account open since I was fully intending to return to Japan after my assignment in my home country. However, I wound up staying in the USA for other work related reasons and wound up switching companies to a USA based company in with a job in the USA.

I've talked with the Japanese banks, and the bank that manages my Stock holdings, and they told me I'd have to visit their offices in person to close off my accounts, and receive whatever money is held in them. There's a sizable sum of money in them, well over the $10,000 that I can bring into the USA without declaring it. I've been pretty much resigned to the fact that I'll have to visit Japan to close off these accounts properly.

Now my question is pretty simple. What's the best way to go about getting my funds to the USA? I'm not trying to evade taxes or anything. I just want to know the proper way of how to get it back to my accounts in the USA so I don't raise any flags or anything which will get me stopped by customs.


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## BBCWatcher

Haven't you ever heard of wire transfers?


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## happynerd

BBCWatcher said:


> Haven't you ever heard of wire transfers?


I have, but that's not a solution. My Alien Registration card has expired, so there would be significant hoops to jump through to do a wire transfer. I appreciate the response, but since I'm no longer a permanent resident, it's not an answer.


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## larabell

I've never tried a wire transfer from Japan as a non-resident but I find it somewhat hard to believe that it's not possible. Worst case... withdraw the money, put it in your pocket, and just declare it when you cross the border. It's not illegal to being more than $10K into the US... it's just that the feds want to know you did it and they might ask why at some point... but if the money isn't from some illegal source, you should be OK.

By the way... if it's a brokerage account, you should be able to transfer it as-is to a different brokerage in the States (or wherever you happen to be living now). The advantage would be not having to sell the stocks and be taxed on any profit you may have made.


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## BBCWatcher

Sorry, it is possible. (And I can personally vouch for that.) Sure, there are "hoops." You have to work with the financial institution to set up the wire transfer, and that involves providing ID, etc. Jump through them.

What else did you have in mind? 10,000 Yen notes in a suitcase? 

There is also a paper equivalent to a wire transfer. The financial institution in Japan issues what's called a "demand draft" (or "foreign draft"), in U.S. dollars, made payable to your U.S. financial institution with instructions to deposit the funds in a specific account number (yours) -- payable to "Bank of America / For Deposit in Account No. 12345678" for example. Then they mail that check directly -- you don't touch it. That also works.

You can carry (or even mail) cash and cash equivalents, but that can be very dangerous (especially outside Japan), and you would probably have at least a pair of declaration forms to fill out: U.S. FinCEN Form 105 and Japan's equivalent. Hoops? There are your hoops.  You can't avoid certain hoops.

If at least one of the "stocks" you are holding are PFICs per the IRS definition then you'll have some "interesting" tax consequences if you haven't been making mark-to-market elections. You also have Japanese tax consequences, probably, but you should be able to take a Foreign Tax Credt on your U.S. tax return to account for that.


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## Stevesolar

Hi,
Do they have Western Union in Japan?
If so - go to bank, draw cash - go to Western Union office - send to yourself.
Back in USA - visit local Western Union and withdraw money in cash!

http://locations.westernunion.com/jp/tokyo
Cheers
Steve


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## BBCWatcher

Stevesolar said:


> Back in USA - visit local Western Union and withdraw money in cash!


Eek! Please, no! Bad idea. This part is quite dangerous unless we're talking about a _modest_ amount of cash. There are mugging and civil asset forfeiture risks. Mugging: somebody steals your money (and perhaps more, such as your arm or life). Civil asset forfeiture: the police steal your money, controversially but legally. Moreover, financial institutions (including Western Union) are rightly suspicious of dealing with large amounts of cash.

There are hoops, stipulated. Jump through them, please.


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## Stevesolar

BBCWatcher said:


> Eek! Please, no! Bad idea. This part is quite dangerous unless we're talking about a _modest_ amount of cash. There are mugging and civil asset forfeiture risks. Mugging: somebody steals your money (and perhaps more, such as your arm or life). Civil asset forfeiture: the police steal your money, controversially but legally. Moreover, financial institutions (including Western Union) are rightly suspicious of dealing with large amounts of cash.
> 
> There are hoops, stipulated. Jump through them, please.


Mugging - in Tokyo! - get a grip!


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## BBCWatcher

Stevesolar said:


> Mugging - in Tokyo! - get a grip!


No, not often. But you didn't only suggest that part. The part you suggested that I quoted relates to the United States.


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## Stevesolar

BBCWatcher said:


> No, not often. But you didn't only suggest that part. The part you suggested that I quoted relates to the United States.


Fair enough - but you can also elect to do a transfer to a US bank account.
You can also do multiple transfers - rather than one large sum.


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## BBCWatcher

Stevesolar said:


> You can also do multiple transfers - rather than one large sum.


Probably not. If you try to pull that stunt you might very well be guilty of structuring, a felony under U.S. federal law. (Structuring is often illegal in other countries, too.) As an example, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert recently pleaded guilty to structuring. He'll be sentenced on April 27, 2016, and is probably facing some prison time.


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## Stevesolar

BBCWatcher said:


> Probably not. If you try to pull that stunt you might very well be guilty of structuring, a felony under U.S. federal law. (Structuring is often illegal in other countries, too.) As an example, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert recently pleaded guilty to structuring. He'll be sentenced on April 27, 2016, and is probably facing some prison time.


Yes - but we are talking about $10,000 - not $10,000,000,000


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## BBCWatcher

Stevesolar said:


> Yes - but we are talking about $10,000 - not $10,000,000,000


No, Happynerd described a sum "well over" $10,000. Moreover, it is possible to commit the felony of structuring under U.S. law even with a total sum of exactly $10,000 divided into as few as two transactions. Dennis Hastert will be sentenced for structuring a total sum much, much less than $10 billion.


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## BBCWatcher

larabell said:


> By the way... if it's a brokerage account, you should be able to transfer it as-is to a different brokerage in the States (or wherever you happen to be living now).


Probably not, but I'll provide guidance on how that process works just in case Happynerd gets lucky.

U.S. brokers use ACATS: the Automated Customer Account Transfer Service. ACATS works with financial institutions that are affiliated with the U.S. National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) or the Depository Trust Company (DTC). Generally Japanese financial institutions are not members of these two organizations. However, if the stocks are U.S. publicly traded stocks (New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ) then the Japanese firm _might_ be able to arrange a direct transfer. In that case you would need to provide the Japanese broker your U.S. broker's DTC number (usually that -- a four digit number) and your account number at that broker. Then they should be able to arrange to have the book entry(ies) for your stock holdings electronically transferred to your U.S. broker. Caution: Make sure your name matches exactly on both ends. John Q. Smith and John Quincy Smith are not the same individuals in this process, and sometimes the transfer fails when the sending broker isn't using exactly the same account holder's name as on the receiving side.

If they can't do that then the Japanese financial institution might be able to get traditional paper stock certificates and transfer those (via traditional registered postal mail) directly to your U.S. financial institution, with instructions to credit them to your account. (This was the way things worked before ACATS.) As with ACATS, the stock certificates have to be holdings that the receiving institution can process. Shares in U.S. publicly traded firms on the NYSE and NASDAQ should be OK, but beyond that you have to check more carefully. You should avoid even touching the stock certificates and let the financial institutions handle this directly between themselves, with any transfer reporting obligations theirs alone.

These are both longshot options, but one can ask.

Another question I'd ask is whether it's possible to visit a U.S. affiliate of the Japanese financial institution in order to handle identity checks and such -- if they have a U.S. affiliate. A lot of Japanese financial institutions have offices in New York City.

If Happynerd is willing to provide the name of the Japanese financial institution and the nature of the "stock" holdings then I might have some more specific advice.


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## myrrh

Here's a link in English to an exhaustive list of the various methods available for remitting money from Japan back to the US:

HOW TO: Transfer Money To and From Japan | Surviving in Japan: (without much Japanese)

Many of these methods require just a valid passport. One further thing to keep in mind about your Japan account is that the bank eventually will close it for inactivity, possibly without contacting you. The Japanese term for such an account is ginkou no kyuumin (suimin) kouza--typically, accounts without activity for 5-10 years (depending on the amount, account type, bank, etc.). In my personal experience, they will not normally attempt to contact a non-Japanese living overseas before closing such an account. 

Moreover, the closure of these accounts may become much easier over the next few years. The Diet has been debating a plan to allow banks to close them more quickly...with the money to be then used "for the country's good."

I.e., I wouldn't put this off for too many more years.


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