# Moving to Thailand - What kind of visa?



## Karlos

Hi Everyone, 

I hope you are all great... I've just discovered this forum, what a great resource 

I currently live in the UK and am looking to move to Thailand with my family. 

I'm a single guy aged 30. I've made sound investments and have plenty in the bank. I really don't need to worry about money, not even in the UK. 

I'd like to move myself - and my family, that is, two parents, one sister and her baby girl - over to Thailand. We'll likely buy three properties on arrival. 

We've all visited and are really keen to move, but I'm not sure how to get the ball rolling? 

What kind of visa could we apply for? 

My parents are looking to retire. My sister may wish to setup her own company, but would likely not work for someone else over there. 

My parents have enough money to support themselves and my sister and her girl -- and I have enough money to support them all. 

They really need a permanent visa, which does not require renewal or any form of risk... if they move, they want to be sure they can stay! 

What visa is best? How would it work? 

I don't mind spending the money -- to get what I'm looking for. 

Should I use a lawyer for the process? Can anyone recommend one in the UK? 

Kind thanks, 

Karlos


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## steed

retirement visa for your parents, but have to renew once a year. You say money in the bank for them? Then ok, renewal no problem year on year. 

For you. There is no permanent visa. Non imm O hs to be renewed and every 90 days you have to report. I understand this kind of visa is only renewable 3 times in consecutive 3 month blocks. No matter what money you have in the bank.

I am no expert in the Thai visa laws. This is only general information but is round about correct. 

Hope this helps. 


EDIT: Refer Rule 10: Links that advertise other competing forums will be removed immediately.


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## Karlos

**

Oh really? I thought you could buy your visa, essentially... if you had enough money.


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## retiredusn

In your case, you may want to look at the Thai Elite card. It should solve all your problems. If your parents are age 50 and above they can get a retirement visa good for a year in the UK at hull.


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## Karlos

*Elite Card *

I've heard of the Elite Card.

So that pretty much gives you five years guaranteed (while the program lasts, which I hear is dubious)... But isn't that still problematic?

I mean... that's not permanent residence... I guess they can kick you out after that time?

Karl


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## synthia

In addition, your sister will not be allowed to start a business without having it owned 50% by Thai partners.

There really is no way to move to Thailand and know it will be permanent.


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## Karlos

**

Really? Oh dear... that's a real kick in the guts 

Is there a likelihood of permanent renewal?


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## synthia

There is no such thing as 'permanent' renewal, and the Thai government is notoriously whimsical about such things. The trend is to make it more difficult for foreigners to move there, not easier.

There is always a risk in living and investing in a country where you don't have citizenship, because the government can always change the law in ways that make living there impossible.

A long time ago (but still in my lifetime), the government of Mexico decided they didn't want a lot of foreign businesses and foreign residents to own property in Mexico, so they expropriated all of it. One day you could be sitting in a beachfront villa, happy as a clam, and the next day the villa belonged to the government. No payment, nothing, just leave. Now it was dumb, and I don't think the Thai government will do anything like that, but the amount of money you need keeps changing. Some countries grandfather in such changes (Panama), but Thailand changes requirements and requires you to comply when it's time for a renewal. 

Lots of people have lived there lots of years, so it doesn't mean you can't go. I think there are visas that require you tie up a fairly large sum of money in a Thai bank, but again, they are renewable.

If you do decide to do this, be sure to choose a place with an international school, preferably a choice of international schools. Anyone with money in Thailand sends their children to English-medium internatinal schools, it seems. The really good ones send most of their students on to prestigious overseas universities. They prepare students to attend Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford and other top universities.


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## Karlos

*Great website*

Hi Synthia,

I really, really enjoyed your website, Synthia... I will subscribe, for sure... the Panama feature was fascinating.

Regarding Thailand: this is so disappointing.

Don't tens of thousands of ex-pats live there right now, having retired, for example?

I would've thought it'd've been a crazy move to kick all of those out 

Maybe I should find myself a bride - automatic citizenship, I think 

Kx


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## synthia

No, marrying a Thai doesn't give you automatic citizenship. I do think it would give you residency, but I wouldn't advise it as an easy way to stay. For one thing, if you buy a house or start a business, you will have very few hassles, because the businesses will all end up in your wife's name. Stories abound about the guy(s) who came home one day to find his wife had moved her boyfriend in and him out, leaving him with no legal recourse because he'd done things the easy way and put everything in her name.

That still wouldn't solve the problem of your parents having to renew annually, or how your sister and her daughter are going to get residence.

Even the most generous retirement visa on the planet, Panama's, only gives you a permanent visa if the income you use to qualify comes from a government pension. It guarantees renewal of all other retirement visas (the age limit is usually not enforced) for a set number of years, but that's it.

They aren't kicking everyone out, but they are making it more expensive and difficult to stay there. A great many of these expats lived there for years on 30 day entry passes. There was a whole business that takes people to the Myanmar border from Chiang Mai, waits while people exit Thailand, walk across the bridge, enter Myanmar and pay the $10 entry fee, then get exit stamps and walk back across the bridge and re-enter Thailand. I don't know how viable that is now. 

None of the people there are insisting on permanent residence as a condition, and if that is important to you, you are pretty much out of luck in most of the countries that will let you live there to begin with. Even if you got permanent residence, the government could take it back.


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## synthia

Your title pretty much reflects a problem a lot of would-be expats experience. They decide they are moving somewhere and assume they have the right to do so, sometimes not even knowing that visas are requlired. They see lots for foreigners or immigrants, and assume that they came in under conditions that the poster would find acceptable or will have access to. That's seldom the case.

Immigration to the US is at an all-time high, partly because of high levels of illegal immigration, and because people sponsor close relatives for immigration. Those who want to work here assume everyone is on a work visa. 

Once they start looking into it, they get discouraged, as well they should.

Think about this: Thailand is easy compared to most countries. A European can't just come to the US, cross into Canada when it's time to leave, get a new visa, then return to the US, ad infinitum. Yet that is possible in many countries in Asia and Latin America.

My other concern is that vacationing is not the same as living. And my advice would be to never invest in a country until you have been there at least a year.


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## Karlos

Am I being unduly stupid by thinking about permanent residence somewhere? Clearly a lot of people "have it" - but not officially.

Is Thailand still my best bet?

I can pretty much emmigrate to any country due to my skillset, but my family can't. Money is not the issue at all... I can bring a lot of that to the country... and self-support, not living off the country at all...

But I'm not sure whether Thailand is still the best bet!

Karl

PS. Loving your replies, THANK YOU!


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## synthia

No, you are not being stupid. You are checking out your options. Lots of people do the expat thing, but it is more difficult than most people expect, and that's before you arrive.

The big thing I think you have to get over is the idea that you don't want to renew visas or residency permits annually. Most places also require you spend a certain amount of time in the country each year, and that you show up in person for the renewal. There is a whole plan you execute for Mexico, to make sure the renewal, which must happen in the 30 days before your residency expires, occurs in a month you find convenient.

Malaysia may not require an annual renewal, but once again, and I think it is possible to open a business without local partners. However, that may not be possible on the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) program.

In many of the places that require annual renewal, it's simply never a problem and merely involves showing up with this year's bank or income statement and signing a couple of papers. Thailand is difficult because they have been changing the rules almost continuously for the past few years.

There is always risk involved in living and investing in a place where you are not a citizen, so you need to find a level of risk that you find acceptable.



Getting over the idea of a guaranteed renewal opens up more possibilities.


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## greginthai

For your parents, no problem, they can get a retirement visa. About you, my best advice is that you open a company with a minimum investment of 6 millions baht. A company in Thailand can hire a foreigner for every 2 millions baht invested so it ensures the visa for you, your sister and your wife but you will need to renew it every year.
You can own 100% of the business, there are some tricks to do that. Officially, you have 49% and 51% for the thai but in truth, the thais people lend you their names and sign a paper stating that it belongs to you so there is no risk, some companies arrange that and find the thai people for you. Your last solution is to subscribe in a Thai Language school for a year and renew it every year you can do that for 5 years.
Hope it helps.


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## synthia

As has been mentioned in other posts, the Thai government is cracking down on the 'nominee' arrangements. Among other things, the nominees must have access to the company bank accounts.

Besides, opening a business doesn't get the OP past the annual renewal, which was a problem.


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## klikster

synthia said:


> No, marrying a Thai doesn't give you automatic citizenship. I do think it would give you residency


All that marrying a Thai gets a foreigner is an easier 1 year visa. Foreign spouses still have to go try to go through the "permanent" residence process.

And even if a foreigner get a residency permit, they are still a foreigner and cannot own land.


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## simonbuk

So whats the 90 day visa you can get ? If you can only renew it 3 times a year what do people do ? Leave Thailand for a while and then come back after 3 months ?


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## wildfk

You can't own land or houses in Thailand - you can buy condos though.


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## Cer

Use a good lawyer and ask him the same as you did on this forum.
Isaan lawyers--Sunbelt u.o. you can deal with them in english language and they give sound advice.
You will not find detailed information,based on YOUR circumstances,on a public forum.


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## wildfk

Retirement visas (over 50) mean you don't haver to leave after 90 days - just sign on at immigration.
You can maybe set up a company/business and get a work permit.


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## Mweiga

*Staying in Thailand*



synthia said:


> No, marrying a Thai doesn't give you automatic citizenship. I do think it would give you residency, but I wouldn't advise it as an easy way to stay. For one thing, if you buy a house or start a business, you will have very few hassles, because the businesses will all end up in your wife's name. Stories abound about the guy(s) who came home one day to find his wife had moved her boyfriend in and him out, leaving him with no legal recourse because he'd done things the easy way and put everything in her name.
> 
> That still wouldn't solve the problem of your parents having to renew annually, or how your sister and her daughter are going to get residence.
> 
> Even the most generous retirement visa on the planet, Panama's, only gives you a permanent visa if the income you use to qualify comes from a government pension. It guarantees renewal of all other retirement visas (the age limit is usually not enforced) for a set number of years, but that's it.
> 
> They aren't kicking everyone out, but they are making it more expensive and difficult to stay there. A great many of these expats lived there for years on 30 day entry passes. There was a whole business that takes people to the Myanmar border from Chiang Mai, waits while people exit Thailand, walk across the bridge, enter Myanmar and pay the $10 entry fee, then get exit stamps and walk back across the bridge and re-enter Thailand. I don't know how viable that is now.
> 
> None of the people there are insisting on permanent residence as a condition, and if that is important to you, you are pretty much out of luck in most of the countries that will let you live there to begin with. Even if you got permanent residence, the government could take it back.


For myself , and probably the majority of non-working expats , the one year non-immigrant visa for over 50s has so far been a practical and unproblematic way to live in Thailand. 

Annual renewal has always been straightforward for me with the only requirement being that you hold a minimum 800,000 baht credit balance in your bank account when you apply for renewal at immigration supported by a letter from the bank to confirm this. When making the first time application for the one year non-imm visa they require you hold this THB 800,000 credit balance in your account for 3 months prior to submitting the application , again with a letter from the bank confirming this.

However , as you say , there is no officially recognised permanency to living in Thailand for non-citizens.


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## wildfk

Residence is a different kettle of fish and has it's own set of requirements - but a spouse doesn't automatically qualify for this.


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## Thai Bigfoot

Karlos,

Pay attention to the posts!

NO country gives a permanent visa.

Marrying doesn't guarantee citizenship.

There are no "sure things" in life.


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## enjoybeing

Karlos said:


> Hi Synthia,
> 
> I really, really enjoyed your website, Synthia... I will subscribe, for sure... the Panama feature was fascinating.
> 
> Regarding Thailand: this is so disappointing.
> 
> Don't tens of thousands of ex-pats live there right now, having retired, for example?
> 
> I would've thought it'd've been a crazy move to kick all of those out
> 
> Maybe I should find myself a bride - automatic citizenship, I think
> 
> Kx


Don't marry for that reason ~ I thought you were married?? anyway, Not Automatic Citizenship and NOT recommended as a way of staying long term ~ Actually, they basically never give a farang citizenship ~ and residency would never be guaranteed either ~ I think "greginThai" has the best solution for you ~ "bigfoot" summarizes things well also ~ Good Luck ~


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