# Acapulco



## SirRon

Hello Everyone !

43 male american expat living in Acapulco, Mexico

I have been here a little over a year now and have a wife who is a local and 2 year old daughter (as result have perm resident status)

It's had its ups and downs but I am still hanging in there

Searching for other English speaking expats living here in Acapulco


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## Longford

SirRon said:


> Hello Everyone !
> 
> 43 male american expat living in Acapulco, Mexico
> 
> I have been here a little over a year now and have a wife who is a local and 2 year old daughter (as result have perm resident status)
> 
> It's had its ups and downs but I am still hanging in there
> 
> Searching for other English speaking expats living here in Acapulco


:welcome: to the Mexico Forum!

There's one person who lives in the Acapulco area who posts here semi-regularly, but other than her (diablita) ... I don't recall others. The one forum at which a few expats who live in Acapulco regularly post to is the Trip Advisor Acapulco Forum. That same forum attracts "regular" expat visitors who vacation in Acapulco each year and during the Winter months of February and March they, those vacationing, and the resident expats hold weekly or semi-monthly get togethers. You might want to cross-post your question there, as well as here ... unless you've done that already.


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## Hound Dog

God luck, SirRon:

We were just through your town a month ago on our way from Chiapas through Bahías de Huatulco, Oaxaca to Iguala Guerrero,Taxco, Moreleos, Toluca, EDOMEX and Lake Chapala, Jalisco. The way things are going in Acapulco, you will be lucky to find anyone who speaks any languag at all the in a year or so. Perhaps learningt o say "duck" in several languages would be useful.

Just kidding. Acapulco is an attractive beach city at least in the hotel zone. Stay out of the hillside favelas.


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## Longford

Hound Dog said:


> Stay out of the hillside favelas.


To put it mildly ... a gross exaggeration (describing so much of the city - which is to a large extent built on a "hillside" - as favelas).


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## SirRon

Longford said:


> :welcome: to the Mexico Forum!
> 
> There's one person who lives in the Acapulco area who posts here semi-regularly, but other than her (diablita) ... I don't recall others. The one forum at which a few expats who live in Acapulco regularly post to is the Trip Advisor Acapulco Forum. That same forum attracts "regular" expat visitors who vacation in Acapulco each year and during the Winter months of February and March they, those vacationing, and the resident expats hold weekly or semi-monthly get togethers. You might want to cross-post your question there, as well as here ... unless you've done that already.



thank you for the trip advisor tip, i will differently sign up there as well


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## SirRon

Hound Dog said:


> God luck, SirRon:
> 
> We were just through your town a month ago on our way from Chiapas through Bahías de Huatulco, Oaxaca to Iguala Guerrero,Taxco, Moreleos, Toluca, EDOMEX and Lake Chapala, Jalisco. The way things are going in Acapulco, you will be lucky to find anyone who speaks any languag at all the in a year or so. Perhaps learningt o say "duck" in several languages would be useful.
> 
> Just kidding. Acapulco is an attractive beach city at least in the hotel zone. Stay out of the hillside favelas.


Looks like i signed up here a month too late, btw I live in the costa azul area, walking distance to the beach and main tourist strip


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## diablita

Longford said:


> :welcome: to the Mexico Forum!
> 
> There's one person who lives in the Acapulco area who posts here semi-regularly, but other than her (diablita) ... I don't recall others. The one forum at which a few expats who live in Acapulco regularly post to is the Trip Advisor Acapulco Forum. That same forum attracts "regular" expat visitors who vacation in Acapulco each year and during the Winter months of February and March they, those vacationing, and the resident expats hold weekly or semi-monthly get togethers. You might want to cross-post your question there, as well as here ... unless you've done that already.


Where did you get the idea that I am a "her"? My screen name is the name of one of my first cats I adopted when I moved here.


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## diablita

SirRon said:


> Hello Everyone !
> 
> 43 male american expat living in Acapulco, Mexico
> 
> I have been here a little over a year now and have a wife who is a local and 2 year old daughter (as result have perm resident status)
> 
> It's had its ups and downs but I am still hanging in there
> 
> Searching for other English speaking expats living here in Acapulco


Bienvenidos Sir Ron. I guess you could say I live in one of the favelas you have been warned not to go to and have lived there for more than 15 years without incident. If you live in Costa Azul you are a lot higher up on the economic ladder than me. If you would like to grab a beer sometime and do some BS'ing, let me know.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Longford;5663137]To put it mildly ... a gross exaggeration (describing so much of the city - which is to a large extent built on a "hillside" - as favelas).[/QUOTE]_


The city of Acapulco represents everything that is socially repulsive about beach enclaves on Latin American shores from Rio de Janeiro to the Dominican Republic. Undisguised, arrogant and obvious excess characterized by absurdly extravagant hotels and oppulent mansions built by unrepentant corporate atheives and their kin sticking it to the peasants living in the surrounding hills with a clear view of this disgraceful and unfair misdistrution of national wealth surrounded by hillsides filled with the resentful poor who can´t even flush their excrement down the hill into the river but have to crap in the backyard.

Those who support this governmental malfeasance and social injustice supposedly of yesteryear are as guilty of supporting this ugly observance that results in the Acapulco of today as we see it - endless favelas looking down on disgusting centers of overindulgence by inconsiderate tourists from all points on the planet. Acapulco should have died with Elvis falling off the commode into the Pacific.

Otherwise, I have no opinión.


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## SirRon

thank you for the welcome, beer sounds great used to drink alot of teq when i first arrived, could not handle the hangovers, swithd back to beer and a scotch and mineral water once in a while, drink i have learned from the locals, i live in a good area but my house is a hut, installed the bathroom myself, had to run 190 feet of sewer pipe down hill to do it, mexico living is very different, trying to count the days till i can get my IFE ID and mexico passport


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Longford;5663137]To put it mildly ... a gross exaggeration (describing so much of the city - which is to a large extent built on a "hillside" - as favelas).[/QUOTE]_


The city of Acapulco reprsents everything that is socially repulsive about beach enclaves on Latin American shores from Rio de Janeiro to the Dominican Republic. Undisguised, arrogant and obvious oppulence characterized by absurdly extravagant hotels and oppulent mansions built by unrepentant theives and their kin sticking it to the peasants living in the surrounding hills with a clear view of this disgraceful and unfair misdistrution of national wealth surrounded by hillsides filled with the resentful poor who can´t even flush their excrement down the hill into the river but have to crap in the backyard.

Those who support this governmental malfeasance and social injustice supposedly of yesteryear are as guilty of supporting this ugly observance that results in the Acapulco of today as we see it - endless favelas looking down on disgusting centers of overindulgence by inconsiderate tourists from all points on the planet. Acapulco should have died with Elvis falling off the commode into the Pacific.

Otherwise, I have no opinión.


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## SirRon

Hound Dog said:


> Longford said:
> 
> 
> 
> To put it mildly ... a gross exaggeration (describing so much of the city - which is to a large extent built on a "hillside" - as favelas).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The city of Acapulco represents everything that is socially repulsive about beach enclaves on Latin American shores from Rio de Janeiro to the Dominican Republic. Undisguised, arrogant and obvious excess characterized by absurdly extravagant hotels and oppulent mansions built by unrepentant corporate atheives and their kin sticking it to the peasants living in the surrounding hills with a clear view of this disgraceful and unfair misdistrution of national wealth surrounded by hillsides filled with the resentful poor who can´t even flush their excrement down the hill into the river but have to crap in the backyard.
> 
> Those who support this governmental malfeasance and social injustice supposedly of yesteryear are as guilty of supporting this ugly observance that results in the Acapulco of today as we see it - endless favelas looking down on disgusting centers of overindulgence by inconsiderate tourists from all points on the planet. Acapulco should have died with Elvis falling off the commode into the Pacific.
> 
> Otherwise, I have no opinión.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> funny you say that, took me 2 years to figure out where i could tie into sewer here and i am only two blocks from the ocean, correct, and yes my back yard was for #1 and #2 had to go down hill to a neighbor house to #2, now i am working on a solar hot water system plan for my house, tired of cold shower !! and also researching solar energy as electric here is insane expensive
> 
> after being here more than year with no hot showers, and no a/c, i couldn't take it anymore, i spent the month of October in a hotel on the main strip, i am now home again and back to hut living again
Click to expand...


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## diablita

" Acapulco should have died with Elvis falling off the commode into the Pacific."

I can't say how I really feel about how you have described my adopted home or I would be banned from this forum so I will just say that I don't share your opinion of Acapulco.


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## SirRon

diablita said:


> " Acapulco should have died with Elvis falling off the commode into the Pacific."
> 
> I can't say how I really feel about how you have described my adopted home or I would be banned from this forum so I will just say that I don't share your opinion of Acapulco.


Acapulco is my home whether i like it or not, I could of landed in a much worse place so for this I am thankful


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## diablita

SirRon said:


> thank you for the welcome, beer sounds great used to drink alot of teq when i first arrived, could not handle the hangovers, swithd back to beer and a scotch and mineral water once in a while, drink i have learned from the locals, i live in a good area but my house is a hut, installed the bathroom myself, had to run 190 feet of sewer pipe down hill to do it, mexico living is very different, trying to count the days till i can get my IFE ID and mexico passport


What a coincidence in regards to the scotch and mineral water. When I went to Walmart today they had a deal on some premixed cans of scotch and mineral water for 7 pesos and I bought several. I have to go into town on Thursday to check my p.o. box so if you would like to chat then send me a PM.


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## Isla Verde

SirRon said:


> Acapulco is my home whether i like it or not, I could of landed in a much worse place so for this I am thankful


So how did you end up there? It doesn't sound like you're that enamored of the place.


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## Hound Dog

diablita said:


> " Acapulco should have died with Elvis falling off the commode into the Pacific."
> 
> I can't say how I really feel about how you have described my adopted home or I would be banned from this forum so I will just say that I don't share your opinion of Acapulco.


Diablito:

I am sorry if I offende you. I actually like Acapulco and meant no offense. 

After all, one town I chose to settle in in Mexico (Ajijic on Lske Chapala) is so dated, shuffleboards had not been invented when most retirees living here now arrived. from, primarily, Dubuque. They would enjoy televisión if they knew what an on/off switch was.


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## SirRon

diablita said:


> What a coincidence in regards to the scotch and mineral water. When I went to Walmart today they had a deal on some premixed cans of scotch and mineral water for 7 pesos and I bought several. I have to go into town on Thursday to check my p.o. box so if you would like to chat then send me a PM.




yes i never drank scotch until i moved here, was always having problems from teq hangovers, everyone kept saying you should be drinking as they say here, whiskey and auga ... finaly tried it and haven't looked at teq since .. walmart not one of my fav stores here as i shop there almost daily

those cans of scotch and water are great, i get them sometimes also, fill your glass up to the rim with ice, open and pour in the can, it should only take half of the can to fill the glass since its filled with so much ice, i get two drinks from one can by doing this, acapulco is hot, i tend to drink cold drinks to fast, this helps hehehe


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## SirRon

Isla Verde said:


> So how did you end up there? It doesn't sound like you're that enamored of the place.


used to vacation here same time the spring breakers where here, fell in love with the city (think 2004 was my first time here)

met a local woman about 5 years ago, then i would come 3 or 4 times a year

then for about 2 years i would work in usa for two months then come here for two months

during this time i fathered a daughter here

one of my visits, only gone for 2 months, i return my daughter doesn't remember who i am, it broke my heart

went back home sold off everything and moved here perm

been here since, my daughter is almost 3 years old going on 18 already

living here has its ups and downs, i could go for hours telling you, what it is like for a american living in acapulco mexico

hope being here I can help others wanting to do the same and same time learning from others past experiences, never too old to learn


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## Isla Verde

SirRon said:


> used to vacation here same time the spring breakers where here, fell in love with the city (think 2004 was my first time here)
> 
> met a local woman about 5 years ago, then i would come 3 or 4 times a year
> 
> then for about 2 years i would work in usa for two months then come here for two months
> 
> during this time i fathered a daughter here
> 
> one of my visits, only gone for 2 months, i return my daughter doesn't remember who i am, it broke my heart
> 
> went back home sold off everything and moved here perm
> 
> been here since, my daughter is almost 3 years old going on 18 already
> 
> living here has its ups and downs, i could go for hours telling you, what it is like for a american living in acapulco mexico
> 
> hope being here I can help others wanting to do the same and same time learning from others past experiences, never too old to learn


Yours is a heartwarming story - your daughter is lucky to have a father like you! You know, Mexico is a big country - maybe you and your family could find another city or town that would be more to your liking than Acapulco.


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## Hound Dog

SirRon said:


> thank you for the welcome, beer sounds great used to drink alot of teq when i first arrived, could not handle the hangovers, swithd back to beer and a scotch and mineral water once in a while, drink i have learned from the locals, i live in a good area but my house is a hut, installed the bathroom myself, had to run 190 feet of sewer pipe down hill to do it, mexico living is very different, trying to count the days till i can get my IFE ID and mexico passport


Just got my IFE ID and Mexican Passport a couple of months ago after over 13 years going through the old FM-3 to FM-2 to Inmigrado status routine. The fact is that, once I had acquired "Inmigrado" status, I was relieved of any more interraction with the dreaded INM except that they decided the old "Inmigrado" card was to be replaced with the new "Residente Permanente" card by statutory mandate and, rather than walk into the local INM office even one more time after a decade even just to exchange my "Inmigrado" card for a "Residente Permanente" card, I decided, what the hell, and became a Mexican citizen which was my eventual goal anyway since I have no intention of leaving here barring absolute necessity beyond my control. When SRE issued me the citizenship papers, they demanded that I turn over to them my "Inmigrado" card so they could send it back to INM and inform them I had become a citizen and was no longer under their jurisdiction for any reason. A delightful idea so I turned over that "Inmigrado" card with relish and carry my IFE card with pride,.


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## SirRon

was very happy the day i got my Residente Permanente card, can't wait till i am able to apply for a IFE card


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## SirRon

i been a expat for a long time now, wonder why i waited until now to search for other xpats


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## Isla Verde

SirRon said:


> was very happy the day i got my Residente Permanente card, can't wait till i am able to apply for a IFE card


Congratulations, Ron. Just keep in mind that you won't be applying directly for an IFE card but rather for Mexican citizenship, a somewhat lengthy process that can take several months, or longer. It would be helpful if other forum members that have recently applied for this change in status would post comments on what it entails, how long it took, and so on.


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## SirRon

Isla Verde said:


> Congratulations, Ron. Just keep in mind that you won't be applying directly for an IFE card but rather for Mexican citizenship, a somewhat lengthy process that can take several months, or longer. It would be helpful if other forum members that have recently applied for this change in status would post comments on what it entails, how long it took, and so on.



yes this would very helpful, all i know or think i know as of this moment, I need to wait 2 years after the date my Residente Permanente card was issued to me


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## Isla Verde

SirRon said:


> yes this would very helpful, all i know or think i know as of this moment, I need to wait 2 years after the date my Residente Permanente card was issued to me


I got my RP card last year, and I think I have to wait four more years before I can apply. But I don't have a Mexican spouse or child, which would shorten the waiting time.


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## SirRon

Isla Verde said:


> I got my RP card last year, and I think I have to wait four more years before I can apply. But I don't have a Mexican spouse or child, which would shorten the waiting time.




I was told 2 year wait for IFE and mexico passport, when i apply for my RP card was for family reasons, i had my RP card little over 2 weeks i was amazed how fast it was


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## TundraGreen

SirRon said:


> I was told 2 year wait for IFE and mexico passport, when i apply for my RP card was for family reasons, i had my RP card little over 2 weeks i was amazed how fast it was


I remember hearing that it is two years for people with family ties and five years for the rest of us mortals. With a child here, you most likely qualify as family whether or not they recognize your common-law marriage.


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## Hound Dog

_


Isla Verde said:



Congratulations, Ron. Just keep in mind that you won't be applying directly for an IFE card but rather for Mexican citizenship, a somewhat lengthy process that can take several months, or longer. It would be helpful if other forum members that have recently applied for this change in status would post comments on what it entails, how long it took, and so on.

Click to expand...

_My wife applied for Mexican citizenship in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas and I applied at the federal building in Guadalajara. We have residences in both regions. From the time of the turning in of my application and the resulting interview to ascertain whether or not I was to be accepted as a citizen based upon that application and interview, was about four months. We were warned that that process might take up to six months. Once one has received the papers to prove Mexican citizenship from SRE, one can approach the Passport office (in Guadalajara also in the federal building in the SRE section and then one goes to the nearest IFE office (now INE) to appliy for a voter registration card. In my case, that IFE office was in the small city of Jocotepec, Jalisco about 12 kilometers out of my current home town of Ajijic, Jalisco. I walked into the Jocotepec IFE office and exited with my IFE voter registration card that same morning. Sincé we own residences in both Jalisco and Chiapas, I could have gone through the same procedure in Chiapas and voted there as did my wife. 

Remember that whether you live in Jalisco, Chiapas or any other Mexican state, you will have to physically go to Mexico City at some time during this process to get a paper from the pólice pricinct in charge of this there that you have no Mexican national criminal record. What the hell; there are worse places to spend a bit of time. Of course, if you do have a Mexican national criminal record, you may wish to lay low and never even start this process.


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## Hound Dog

I should tell those of you considering seeking Mexican citizenship that the functionaries at SRE approving or disapproving of your citizenship application and those in charge of issuing the subsequent Mexican Passport (which they have no choice but to do since the granting of Mexico citizenship is not within the boundaries of the passport office´s responsibilities or powers and Mexican citizens are due a passport if not a proven guilty felon nor insurrectionist) are working, as is true of inter or intra agency bureaucratic missfits throughout the planet often at odds and always trying to humiliate each other or each other´s departments and this is human nature everywhere on this planet. 

If you are over 60 years of age, there should be no Mexican Culture test and no absolute requirement that you are fluent or even conversant in Spanish but you can stroll through this intellectual desert full of contentious morons like crossing a wide, treeless field full of irritated bulls. You might make it across and, on the other hand, your guts may end up ripening in the field in the harsh sunlight after having been gored randomly by some bull in a bad mood. 

Just remember; no venture. no gain.


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## SirRon

14,000 + hotel reservations canceled in Acapulco due to protesters .... wow


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## manuel dexterity

SirRon said:


> 14,000 + hotel reservations canceled in Acapulco due to protesters .... wow


Due to protests? More like due to unresponsive and corrupt government. Historically, peaceful protests here achieve nothing. Its time more emphatic action is taken. The whole world's attention must remain on Mexico and if that means civil unrest, so be it. Ya nos cansamos.


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## citlali

To be fair to the tourist or SirRon remarks I do not think most people realize or understand totally teh einvolvement of the government in that one so the simple thing to do is to blame it on the protests as they can make vacations uncomfortable. Very few people look further into the problems or want to take side in a conflict they are not involved in.

I had not heard the interview with jhon Gilbre and I just did, obviously the army was involved or took side in this all debacle as well. This event could be the straw that broke the camel´s back and if it did not it got a lot of people´s attention in Mexico and abroad.

It is an interesting interview, obviously sympathetic to the students and their "cause" but it points out some facts that have not been pointed out in other reports. Always good to hear various versions and sides.


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## Longford

manuel dexterity said:


> Due to protests? More like due to unresponsive and corrupt government.


There was a violent protest(s) at the Acapulco airport this week, and highway blockages and threats to travelers using the Autopista del Sol connecting the D.F. with Acapulco and the nearby Pacific Coast communities or long travel disruptions due to protests on the highway ... and I believe it's for those reasons many people planning to visit Acapulco for the _puente_ this next weekend are said to be cancelling hotel reservations. I suspect Veracruz will do a strong holiday business, as people looking to enjoy themselves travel in the direction opposite of Chilpancingo, Iguala, Taxco and Acapulco. If the goverment of Acapulco/Guerrero has been "unresponse" I would describe their unresponsiveness as allowing what should have been peaceful, non-violent protests get out of hand in some instances.


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## lhpdiver

Longford said:


> There was a violent protest(s) at the Acapulco airport this week, and highway blockages and threats to travelers using the Autopista del Sol connecting the D.F. with Acapulco and the nearby Pacific Coast communities or long travel disruptions due to protests on the highway ... and I believe it's for those reasons many people planning to visit Acapulco for the _puente_ this next weekend are said to be cancelling hotel reservations. I suspect Veracruz will do a strong holiday business, as people looking to enjoy themselves travel in the direction opposite of Chilpancingo, Iguala, Taxco and Acapulco. If the goverment of Acapulco/Guerrero has been "unresponse" I would describe their unresponsiveness as allowing what should have been peaceful, non-violent protests get out of hand in some instances.


Also - isn't there a nice new super-highway between DF and VeraCruz ? IF DF <-> Acapulco is 4 hours and DF <-> Veracruz is 5 hours - hmmm.


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## Isla Verde

The thread is open again, so feel free to continue the discussion, in a civil way, of course.


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## SirRon

Isla Verde said:


> The thread is open again, so feel free to continue the discussion, in a civil way, of course.


thank you very much Isla


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## manuel dexterity

Longford said:


> There was a violent protest(s) at the Acapulco airport this week, and highway blockages and threats to travelers using the Autopista del Sol connecting the D.F. with Acapulco and the nearby Pacific Coast communities or long travel disruptions due to protests on the highway ... and I believe it's for those reasons many people planning to visit Acapulco for the _puente_ this next weekend are said to be cancelling hotel reservations. I suspect Veracruz will do a strong holiday business, as people looking to enjoy themselves travel in the direction opposite of Chilpancingo, Iguala, Taxco and Acapulco. If the goverment of Acapulco/Guerrero has been "unresponse" I would describe their unresponsiveness as allowing what should have been peaceful, non-violent protests get out of hand in some instances.


Could you please substantiate your claim that travelers along the route were threatened? And is disrupting traffic what you consider "getting out of hand"? 

As far as the police being unresponsive in allowing protests to move to a more aggressive nature, you may be underestimating the ire felt by people in this country and their resentment at both their own impotence at bringing about social justice through peaceful protest and the prepotency of a government that has such a long and sordid history of human and civil rights violations. Are you suggesting that the government use violence in dealing with protesters? Does civil disobedience merit a violent response from the state?


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## Hound Dog

_


lhpdiver said:



Also - isn't there a nice new super-highway between DF and VeraCruz ? IF DF <-> Acapulco is 4 hours and DF <-> Veracruz is 5 hours - hmmm.

Click to expand...

_An interesting inquiry. From DF to Acapulco down the Autopisto Del Sol is four hours. From DF to the City of Veracruz beach is, indeed, about five hours but the beaches at Veracruz City are cruddy and unattractive compared to the beaches at Acapulco. the quality of the sea wáter is questionnable at both destinations and in both places th wáter can be a bit murkey.


I think that if I lived in DF and wanted a beach holiday toher than Acapulco, I´d head for the Bahías de Huatulco, the Gulf at Yucatán or maybe the Caribbean in Quintana Roo


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## SirRon

I have a family member wanting to visit Acapulco, with over 14,000 hotel reservation cancellations due to fear of protesters, I Think it will drive down hotel costs here for the season

last week my family member tried to book a fav hotel, and couldn't, it is now available, I told this person to wait longer I really think price will go down 

those planing to come here may be getting a better deal than they planned for


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## lhpdiver

SirRon said:


> I have a family member wanting to visit Acapulco, with over 14,000 hotel reservation cancellations due to fear of protesters, I Think it will drive down hotel costs here for the season
> 
> last week my family member tried to book a fav hotel, and couldn't, it is now available, I told this person to wait longer I really think price will go down
> 
> those planing to come here may be getting a better deal than they planned for


One of the best vacations we took over the years was at the peak of the H1 virus scare. We stayed at the Maya Princess in Riviera Maya. It is a resort with perhaps 4 or 5 different complexes. There were so few people staying there that they closed all the complexes except the most top-end, upgrading everyone for free. They opened all the restaurants to everyone. I had an incredible steak dinner and when I was done the waiter asked if I would like another.


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## Longford

Hound Dog said:


> I think that if I lived in DF and wanted a beach holiday toher than Acapulco, I´d head for the Bahías de Huatulco, the Gulf at Yucatán or maybe the Caribbean in Quintana Roo


Most of the people from the D.F. who travel to Acapulco for vacation/long weekends make the trip either by personal vehicle (driving) or by bus. Huatulco is just too far, too distant for a long-weekend. The beaches at Veracruz (the port city) are not very good, IMO, but there are "beaches" and "water" (not always very clean) and the destination is very popular at certain times of the year. Also, too, Acapulco can be a very affordable place to stay for people on a tight budget, and Veracruz, also, has many inexpensive hotels/restaurants. Huatulco, on the other hand, just doesn't have the same type of tourism infrastructure Acapulco or Veracruz have.


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## manuel dexterity

Apparently the claim that travelers are being threatened along the highway between the DF and Acapulco cannot be substantiated. Those making those types of wild claims do no one reading these boards a favor. People unfamiliar with this country visit this board hoping to receive accurate and truthful information. Posting rumors and innuendo contributes nothing.


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## AlanMexicali

lhpdiver said:


> One of the best vacations we took over the years was at the peak of the H1 virus scare. We stayed at the Maya Princess in Riviera Maya. It is a resort with perhaps 4 or 5 different complexes. There were so few people staying there that they closed all the complexes except the most top-end, upgrading everyone for free. They opened all the restaurants to everyone. I had an incredible steak dinner and when I was done the waiter asked if I would like another.


You must be different than I am. I would find being in a tourist spot that is almost empty of people or in a restaurant etc. with only a table or two of people eating depressing,. I like to be with people who are enjoying the beach along with me.

During the first stage of the swine flu outbreak when I lived in Mexicali the stores and streets were empty for about 2 days and people wore paper masks and OXXO employees gave me a few and latex gloves. 

After awhile, about 1 or 1 1/2 weeks, the masks came off most people and schools and universities were back to full attendance. I actually stayed indoors for about 3 days and watched the local TV for updates every hour and only went to the OXXO close by. It was very wierd, the whole thing.


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## lhpdiver

AlanMexicali said:


> You must be different than I am. I would find being in a tourist spot that is almost empty of people or in a restaurant etc. with only a table or two of people eating depressing,. I like to be with people who are enjoying the beach along with me.
> 
> During the first stage of the swine flu outbreak when I lived in Mexicali the stores and streets were empty for about 2 days and people wore paper masks and OXXO employees gave me a few and latex gloves.
> 
> After awhile, about 1 or 1 1/2 weeks, the masks came off most people and schools and universities were back to full attendance. I actually stayed indoors for about 3 days and watched the local TV for updates every hour and only went to the OXXO close by. It was very wierd, the whole thing.


Particularly when I was working 50 some weeks a year - to get away for some peace and quiet. Wake up early - get in a couple dives (on an uncrowded boat). Get back to the (nearly empty resort). Have a couple drinks poolside with no screaming bratty kids. Eat when we want without waiting in line for an hour. Having time to actually have a conversation with the staff. By the end of the week they know your name. Guess we are quite different.


----------



## Isla Verde

manuel dexterity said:


> Apparently the claim that travelers are being threatened along the highway between the DF and Acapulco cannot be substantiated. Those making those types of wild claims do no one reading these boards a favor. People unfamiliar with this country visit this board hoping to receive accurate and truthful information. Posting rumors and innuendo contributes nothing.


Who made this claim? Did you read it here or on some other expat website? Can you provide a link? Thanks.


----------



## Isla Verde

manuel dexterity said:


> . . . Are you suggesting that the government use violence in dealing with protesters? Does civil disobedience merit a violent response from the state?


When civil disobedience turns violent, then it is time for the authorities to step and put a stop to it, IMO.


----------



## lhpdiver

Isla Verde said:


> When civil disobedience turns violent, then it is time for the authorities to step and put a stop to it, IMO.


I don't want to see ANYONE get hurt - but when I watch the news I REALLY REALLY wish there was a way for the army to peacefully corral the protesters and simply remove their masks - on air.


----------



## Isla Verde

lhpdiver said:


> I don't want to see ANYONE get hurt - but when I watch the news I REALLY REALLY wish there was a way for the army to peacefully corral the protesters and simply remove their masks - on air.


Excellent idea! Most of the trouble seems to come from the so-called _anarquistas_ wearing hooded masks. It would be great to see them unmasked in front of TV cameras.


----------



## manuel dexterity

Isla Verde said:


> Excellent idea! Most of the trouble seems to come from the so-called _anarquistas_ wearing hooded masks. It would be great to see them unmasked in front of TV cameras.


Really? So they can be targeted for more government repression? The normalistas were all without masks and behaving in a non-violent manner. And, as we all must agree, that ended rather ugly. When the government kills citizens who are excersing their civil rights and attempts to cover up the truth, then IMO, it is no longer legitimate and anything goes.


----------



## manuel dexterity

Isla Verde said:


> Who made this claim? Did you read it here or on some other expat website? Can you provide a link? Thanks.


I read it on this thread. I didn't attribute it to the author because of recent reprimands by mods, I was concerned it would be taken as a personal attack.


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## Isla Verde

manuel dexterity said:


> I read it on this thread. I didn't attribute it to the author because of recent reprimands by mods, I was concerned it would be taken as a personal attack.


You can comment on another forum member's comments by clicking on Reply With Quote before adding your own comments. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Hound Dog

manuel dexterity said:


> Due to protests? More like due to unresponsive and corrupt government. Historically, peaceful protests here achieve nothing. Its time more emphatic action is taken. The whole world's attention must remain on Mexico and if that means civil unrest, so be it. Ya nos cansamos.


"Ya me canse" will go down in history but talk is cheap. Looking back on that movie, _El Infierno_, where everyone, including our hero´s mother, brothers, aunts, sisters, uncles, in-laws, the sheriff, the mayor , the new president of the republic, the chief or pólice, the army, the garbage collector, your hired gardener or housekeeper, the pious and phoney next door U.S. administration pretending to abhor the drug traffic but doing nothing to interdict it while accepting enormous bribes from wealthy adherents demanding acquiesence to develop local projects intended to enrich them, drug mules utilizing porous borders manned by cheap theives from Guatemala to El Paso, thousands upon thousands of drug addicts throughout the United States and Canada, U.S. gun runners tearing apart the social fabric of Mexico and Central America for profit bought with their kickbacks from drug smuggling and at the same time, morons burning some 45 bodies for 14 hours utilizing tires and deisel fuel near Iguala with no one living there or in authority noticing the stench of multiple bodies being cremated in a puble garbage dump and then those searching for the supposedly slaughtered students from the normal college finding deep mass graves after deep mass grave never suspected to have existed (see, hear and speak no evil - the national motto of Mexico) and on and on.

Guts or no guts - you would have to be insane to speak out against these attrocities at your and your extnded family´s risk.

When I lived for some eight months in the old concentration camp at Dachau, Germany in right here in the town the 1960s, a nice small city, nobody, even just up the Street from the camp, had any idea what was going on there and never protested the attrocities occurring at their doorsteps.

Human nature. everywhere on the planet.


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## lhpdiver

manuel dexterity said:


> Really? So they can be targeted for more government repression? The normalistas were all without masks and behaving in a non-violent manner. And, as we all must agree, that ended rather ugly. When the government kills citizens who are excersing their civil rights and attempts to cover up the truth, then IMO, it is no longer legitimate and anything goes.


Isn't it illegal for most of us to make such statements ? 

Mexico is sooo much more transparent than some other countries. And - I hope this doesn't offend anyone - today was the first day I actually saw a story of Pena Nieto (and his wife) from the summit in China. What an incredibly handsome couple. It reminded me of the Kennedys.


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## manuel dexterity

lhpdiver said:


> Isn't it illegal for most of us to make such statements ?
> 
> Mexico is sooo much more transparent than some other countries. And - I hope this doesn't offend anyone - today was the first day I actually saw a story of Pena Nieto (and his wife) from the summit in China. What an incredibly handsome couple. It reminded me of the Kennedys.


If by "most of us" you are referring to foreigners residing in Mexico, I am a Mexican citizen. Y me vale.


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## manuel dexterity

lhpdiver said:


> Isn't it illegal for most of us to make such statements ?
> 
> Mexico is sooo much more transparent than some other countries. And - I hope this doesn't offend anyone - today was the first day I actually saw a story of Pena Nieto (and his wife) from the summit in China. What an incredibly handsome couple. It reminded me of the Kennedys.



Other than perhaps a handsomeness there are absolutely no comparisons. Especially morally and intellectually.


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## Isla Verde

<snip>
A word to the wise - let the whole thing go before this thread degenerates into name-calling and other unhelpful behavior.


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## manuel dexterity

Isla Verde said:


> A word to the wise - let the whole thing go before this thread degenerates into name-calling and other unhelpful behavior.


I called no one a name. Unhelpful behavior is spreading falsehoods but apparently that is acceptable. I'm done.


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## Isla Verde

manuel dexterity said:


> I called no one a name. Unhelpful behavior is spreading falsehoods but apparently that is acceptable. I'm done.


That would be wise on your part.


----------



## joaquinx

Isla Verde said:


> When civil disobedience turns violent, then it is time for the authorities to step and put a stop to it, IMO.


You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.


----------



## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.


Would you like to be around when the metaphorical **** hits the fan? Living in Jalapa I imagine you haven't been affected personally by all the marches and demonstrations and sporadic violence that has affected the lives of those of us living in Mexico City and Acapulco and many other places in the country.


----------



## joaquinx

Isla Verde said:


> Would you like to be around when the metaphorical **** hits the fan? Living in Jalapa I imagine you haven't been affected personally by all the marches and demonstrations and sporadic violence that has affected the lives of those of us living in Mexico City and Acapulco and many other places in the country.


I didn’t realize that the scars of revolt had spread to your part of Mexico City. Although the laws prevent us from demonstrating in political events, where do you stand? We as foreigners can not participate. At least I can say that I supported this movement from the beginning. I may have been on the sideline, but I wasn’t in the shadows. I’m staying.


----------



## Longford

joaquinx said:


> You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.


Yes. But doesn't it depend upon whose "eggs" you're breaking? 

Some of the protests in Acapulco, and Chilpancingo, have, IMO, hurt the average working persons in those communities probably much more than they've hurt the "government" (whomever that word is supposed to identify). 

Donning masks, robbing stores, brandishing weapons, blocking highways, beating police officers, burning files in government offices that help the disabled, the poor, and others needing government services and/or scaring away customers that pay the tourism industry workers their wages ... these are things which are going to elicit support for protesters? I don't think so. 

What comes through loud and clear in the many protests in the country is that lots of people continue to be fed-up with the ruling class in the country on a wide range of issues and that the 51 deaths in Iguala is a good "vehicle" to advance this general unrest. Not that people aren't upset by the deaths and how they occurred, but that, unlike the hundreds or thousands of similarly awful deaths and/or scores of mass executions ... the timing of Iguala is such that frustration has been on the rise. 

The Mayor of Iguala and his wife have been arrested and likely will be prosecuted. The Governor of Guerrero resigned from office. 60+ people have been arrested or are being held in custody while the circumstances of the deaths are being investigated. Some protesters are angry at the President. Fine. But did he participate in the planning or execution of the deaths of the 51, or otherwise make them possible? 

Also, too, I think we're seeing that the concept of democracy or a democratic political system in Mexico, which many observers hoped had been making progress in Mexico ... hasn't been as widely accepted/supported as hoped by many.

My sentiment is that violent protests play into the hands of the ruling class. They give support for incressed repressive responses. They capture media attention and focus, and erode wider public support. On the other hand, I believe wide-scale non-violent acts/protests are very difficult for people in power to ignore, suppress and crack-down on and they generate broad-based support and attention. Violence, however, is the easy route for many. Non-violent protest takes time.

I believe, also, that the protests probably have moved-on from what happened at Iguala because it seems they've oftentimes been co-opted by people disgruntled for additional/other reasons. 

I think most people probably assume we'll never really know the full story about this (Iguala). Time will tell.

Yes, breaking eggs is often necessary, and advisable, but breaking them in the appropriate pan/pot is important ... too.


----------



## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> I didn’t realize that the scars of revolt had spread to your part of Mexico City. Although the laws prevent us from demonstrating in political events, where do you stand? We as foreigners can not participate. At least I can say that I supported this movement from the beginning. I may have been on the sideline, but I wasn’t in the shadows. I’m staying.


I live in the center of Mexico City, a couple of blocks from El Angel, which has been the starting point for many of the marches and demonstrations. Though I support peaceful marches and demonstrations calling for justice in the case of the murdered normalistas, I cannot condone actions like blocking streets and highways, the "taking" of toll booths, the highjacking of city buses, vandalism of private property, and other sorts of "revolutionary" actions whose only purpose seems to be to provoke a violent reaction from the police and military rather than to solve the many problems that Mexico is facing.


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## joaquinx

It seems that some people if transported back a few centuries would have sided with the British or believed that a Hollywood version of that Independence movement was without violence and all was peacefully settled at a nice breakfast and tea. Cheers!


----------



## Hound Dog

_


manuel dexterity said:



I called no one a name. Unhelpful behavior is spreading falsehoods but apparently that is acceptable. I'm done.

Click to expand...

_I trust, Manuel, that you are not serious and will continue to participate here on this fórum where you have added some salt and pepper to an often previously bland word diet. 

I no longer participate on any of the insipid Lake Chapala English fórums but post here because I find it entertaining and informative. You´re adding important color and depth here. Stick around. If you don´t like it here, try the Chapala centered, parochial fórums which would be laughable if one could stay awake long enough to chuckle. Actually, I believe you, who has been around various fórums under many names for some time if I am not mistaken, are an important contributor to this fórum even if you are, at times, a jerk as am I.


----------



## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> It seems that some people if transported back a few centuries would have sided with the British or believed that a Hollywood version of that Independence movement was without violence and all was peacefully settled at a nice breakfast and tea. Cheers!


"Some people", eh? Well, come and spend some time in Mexico City and have your life regularly disrupted by demonstrations and marches and lots of uncivil disobedience and see if your take on civil disobedience changes just a tiny bit.


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## joaquinx

Isla Verde said:


> "Some people", eh? Well, come and spend some time in Mexico City and have your life regularly disrupted by demonstrations and marches and lots of uncivil disobedience and see if your take on civil disobedience changes just a tiny bit.


I go to Mexico City often. "Some people" could return to their country of citizenship if disturbed by the actions of the nationals of their guest country.


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## TundraGreen

joaquinx said:


> I go to Mexico City often. "Some people" could return to their country of citizenship if disturbed by the actions of the nationals of their guest country.


Maybe Isla should start a protest movement protesting the protestors. Sounds better than a Mexico: Love-it-or-leave-it approach. Although I believe our visa conditions prohibit political activities.


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## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> I go to Mexico City often. "Some people" could return to their country of citizenship if disturbed by the actions of the nationals of their guest country.


I'm not planning to leave any day soon. I am disturbed by what's been going on in Mexico precisely because I'm planning to stay. My Mexican friends are also disturbed by what's been going on, for many of the reasons I've previously written about. And, no, they're not right-wing supporters of the government.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> Maybe Isla should start a protest movement protesting the protestors. Sounds better than a Mexico: Love-it-or-leave-it approach. Although I believe our visa conditions prohibit political activities.


That's right, TG. I can't get involved in any political activities in Mexico, and anyway my marching days are done, I'm afraid, though I do sign lots of online petitions protesting government actions I oppose.


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## SirRon

Isla Verde said:


> That's right, TG. I can't get involved in any political activities in Mexico, and anyway my marching days are done, I'm afraid, though I do sign lots of online petitions protesting government actions I oppose.


I'm only a back seat driver when it comes to anything political, Driver next right please


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## Hound Dog

Isla Verde said:


> I live in the center of Mexico City, a couple of blocks from El Angel, which has been the starting point for many of the marches and demonstrations. Though I support peaceful marches and demonstrations calling for justice in the case of the murdered normalistas, I cannot condone actions like blocking streets and highways, the "taking" of toll booths, the highjacking of city buses, vandalism of private property, and other sorts of "revolutionary" actions whose only purpose seems to be to provoke a violent reaction from the police and military rather than to solve the many problems that Mexico is facing.


Let´s christen this the nebulous revolution. As Abbot and Costello would have said years ago, "Who´s on first?"

So, there we were driving between Villahermosa and San Cristóbal da Las Casas a few months ago when, after four or so hours of driving we came upon a road block at Pueblo Nuevo Solistahuacan only a few hours out of our home town of San Cristóbal and we, along with every other driver on that route that day, were detained because of some local dispute with the muniipality the nature of which I do not recall. We inquired as to whether or not we could purchase passage on to San Cristóbal with recompense. A few pesos at most and certainly a fine investment. The man who had detained us inquired among his village cohorts as to whether or not that was an aceptable solution to our being allowed to continue our journey to San Cristóbal. He returned to us after his conference to advise us he could let s through but we might be slaughtered just up the road by unpleasant folks so the wise thing for us to do was that we should do a u-turn and head back to Villahermosa and take an alternative route to San Cristóbal. We inquired as to how long this road-blockage protest would be taking place and he responded that the blockage would last anytime between four hours and four days in accordance to then unknown results of negotiations. We drove back to Villahermosa and on to San Cristóbal via another route and that we shold head back to Villahermosa immediately rather than chance becoming immersed in local political struggles which can become extremely violent and dangerous. We were glad to be able to get out of there before it was too late. 

As Randy Newman wrote years ago in "Big Bad John", "Don´t mess with people you don´t´know."


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> That's right, TG. I can't get involved in any political activities in Mexico, and anyway my marching days are done, I'm afraid, though I do sign lots of online petitions protesting government actions I oppose.


I guess we have to let Gary, ManualDexterity, Hound Dog and Citlali do all the protesting.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I guess we have to let Gary, ManualDexterity, Hound Dog and Citlali do all the protesting.


Right now their protesting seems to be mostly words posted on the internet. If things get really hairy, will we see them out on the street, waving signs and shouting slogans?


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## Longford

:fencing: :smash: eace: :cheer2: :welcome: :director: :amen: lane: :hippie:


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;5730994]I guess we have to let Gary, ManualDexterity, Hound Dog and Citlali do all the protesting.[/QUOTE]_

No problem. In 1967, Hound Dog and five companions, three black and two White, were in Birmingham for a civil rights demonstration and, upon leaving, ,my black compatriots advised me that it was important that the one black female in my old, beat up 1958 Ford Fairlane sit with Alabama plates sit in the back seatwith the other black people ias otherwise my sitting with a black woman in the front seat might be miscontrued by some Birmingham cops as incivility.

We complied with the proper decorum of the time but were still pulled over by two Birmingham cops on motorcycles downtown on our way back to Tuscaloosa who were quite hostile but this was a neighborhood in the city mostly black and, within minutes, those two White cops were surrounded by countless black men spoiling for a fight. I jave never seen two cops getting the hell out of there more rapidly than those two guys in those days.

Today, as we live in Chiapas, I have seen more assertive local behavior. Just outside of San Cristóbal in indigenous lands, two cops were thrown off a Cliff for offending the locals by tcketing wihout, in the minds of the locals, warrant. 

Do not mess around down there.


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## citlali

Actually right now I just talked to an artisan who is on a bus full artisans trying to get out of Chiapa de Corzo. They had to go through the old road as the students were buring cars and fighting at the toll booth.. Hopefully they wil make it by tomorrow here and the ones that are flying out tomorrow are able to do so ot they will lose a bunch of money..


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> Actually right now I just talked to an artisan who is on a bus full artisans trying to get out of Chiapa de Corzo. They had to go through the old road as the students were buring cars and fighting at the toll booth.. Hopefully they wil make it by tomorrow here and the ones that are flying out tomorrow are able to do so ot they will lose a bunch of money..


Here's a good example of how the violent actions of some of these students (high school, normalistas, university?) is harming other Mexicans, like the indigenous artisans that citlali works with.


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## manuel dexterity

Here is a good example how criminal government is harming other Mexicans. Average citizens being shot while peacefully protesting. At least none were killed like in Iguala.

Alcalde priista de Oaxaca ordena disparar contra pobladores; reportan 17 heridos


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## Hound Dog

Thank you, Manuel for that graphic display of what is happening here. This is sickening. I have lived in rough places all my life in many parts of the world so am not alarmed. It seems we here in Mexico are headed down a one way road. This saddens me.


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## manuel dexterity

Isla Verde said:


> Right now their protesting seems to be mostly words posted on the internet. If things get really hairy, will we see them out on the street, waving signs and shouting slogans?


I replied, and in no way disrespectful, to this post but it seems to have disappeared along with another post.


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## citlali

The people as a rule down there are not very happy with the government and they take the side of the students or maestros . 

The old road was open so they just will sit for an extra couple of hours on the bus.


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## manuel dexterity

citlali said:


> The people as a rule down there are not very happy with the government and they take the side of the students or maestros .
> 
> The old road was open so they just will sit for an extra couple of hours on the bus.


So it wasn't the end of the world for them as some would think but a slight inconvenience.


----------



## TundraGreen

manuel dexterity said:


> I replied, and in no way disrespectful, to this post but it seems to have disappeared along with another post.


I removed three posts made by two individuals. The substance of the deleted posts was a personal argument between the two members that had degenerated to the level of "Are so" and "Am not". If the two members would like to continue the argument they are free to do so in Private Messages.


----------



## manuel dexterity

Hound Dog said:


> I trust, Manuel, that you are not serious and will continue to participate here on this fórum where you have added some salt and pepper to an often previously bland word diet.
> 
> I no longer participate on any of the insipid Lake Chapala English fórums but post here because I find it entertaining and informative. You´re adding important color and depth here. Stick around. If you don´t like it here, try the Chapala centered, parochial fórums which would be laughable if one could stay awake long enough to chuckle. Actually, I believe you, who has been around various fórums under many names for some time if I am not mistaken, are an important contributor to this fórum even if you are, at times, a jerk as am I.


Heck mutt, mainecoons lets more slide there than they do here. Not what I expected.


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## citlali

yes Manuel they took it as an inconvenience, not sure what they would have said if the old road had have been closed as well 
.What are two extra hours on an 18 hour bus ride after all. Since most of them have never gone out very far they may not realized how rough it gets in the middle of the night on a bus where seats do not recline ..I am sure I will hear all about it tomorrow ..


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## SirRon

now the acapulco air show has been canceled 

Linky Se suspende Air Show; no hay condiciones de seguridad: Walton


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## SirRon

Acapulco keeps getting dished out whammy's left and right 

Protestas afectan turismo mexicano


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## Isla Verde

SirRon said:


> Acapulco keeps getting dished out whammy's left and right
> 
> Protestas afectan turismo mexicano


My guess is the protestors could care less. In fact, they're probably pleased at all the publicity they're getting for their cause, even if it's negative publicity.


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## SirRon

i'm sure if the police handed over 40+ students to drug dealers in usa, usa citizens would be doing a lot more damage, than the people here in mexico are

I respect the Mexican citizens, first they protested quietly, and continue to get louder until there prays and hopes are answered, they need closure


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## GARYJ65

I agree on that opinion about people needing closure and protesting when they do not get answers, but vandalizing is quite a different subject
Those thugs should be punished ON SITE, and I mean hard punishment

Todays governments in the world have become softies, they don't want to be labeled as oppressors, and in that line of thinking they become idiots


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=GARYJ65;5732706]I agree on that opinion about people needing closure and protesting when they do not get answers, but vandalizing is quite a different subject
Those thugs should be punished ON SITE, and I mean hard punishment

Todays governments in the world have become softies, they don't want to be labeled as oppressors, and in that line of thinking they become idiots[/QUOTE]_

Well, Gary, I would say that slaughtering some 50 students, suffocating some, bullets in the heads of others, at least 14 hours of openly desecrating their corpses burning thm in a public garbage dump with deisel fuel and burning tires, crushing the remaining charred bones and filling plastic bags with the remains seems sufficient punishment for unsophisticated peasant kids who had the temerity to commandeer a public bus for a ride to Chipalcingo on a lark.

I would call that HARD punishment.

Back in my home state of Alabama, 30% of whose citizens were African American, in the 1950s maybe what the white racist establishment should have done is to have established extermination camps to quiet racial discord emanating from disenfranchised black Alabamians. Have we met before in the old days? 

Perhaps you wre just trying to amuse us.


----------



## GARYJ65

Hound Dog said:


> GARYJ65 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree on that opinion about people needing closure and protesting when they do not get answers, but vandalizing is quite a different subject Those thugs should be punished ON SITE, and I mean hard punishment Todays governments in the world have become softies, they don't want to be labeled as oppressors, and in that line of thinking they become idiots
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Gary, I would say that slaughtering some 50 students, suffocating some, bullets in the heads of others, at least 14 hours of openly desecrating their corpses burning thm in a public garbage dump with deisel fuel and burning tires, crushing the remaining charred bones and filling plastic bags with the remains seems sufficient punishment for unsophisticated peasant kids who had the temerity to commandeer a public bus for a ride to Chipalcingo on a lark. I would call that HARD punishment. Back in my home state of Alabama, 30% of whose citizens were African American, in the 1950s maybe what the white racist establishment should have done is to have established extermination camps to quiet racial discord emanating from disenfranchised black Alabamians. Have we met before in the old days? Perhaps you wre just trying to amuse us.
Click to expand...

I mean hard punishment for the ones that are protesting, I should say, destroying now
They are not demanding justice, they are just trash


----------



## buzzbar

I respect the opinions of you both as Mexican citizens. Being a resident, all I can do is watch and read….and I’m heartened by what I’m seeing.

Who knows how it’ll develop, but reports of protestors taking over Acapulco airport, setting PRI offices on fire and causing serious disruption across the country, gives me hope that this time it might be different. That this time the courageous people who are out on the streets are refusing to limit themselves to the usual ‘letting off steam’ protests that the Mexican government has allowed and used so successfully in the past to manage anger and discontent.

Instead we’re seeing strong and powerful action being taken by the Mexican people. Fantastic! And I’m sure no protestor is paying any attention to the weak and timid who wring their hands, throw out the usual labels of ‘anarchist’ and ‘trouble maker’ and fret over any ‘inconvenience’ that the protests might cause. Codswallop!! 

I see it as protesters saying “No, this time we won’t be satisfied with peaceful – but totally futile – protest action. No longer! This time we won’t be dismissed or patronized. We are outraged! By our actions we’ll make sure that Mexico and the world can’t minimize or ignore the atrocity of Iguala. We’ll keep the issue alive until all those involved are brought to justice and the nation starts a serious debate on how we can prevent the horrors of Iguala ever happening again!” 

If I had the choice, I’d be out on the streets with them. Bravo to them all!!!


----------



## Hound Dog

_


GARYJ65 said:



I mean hard punishment for the ones that are protesting, I should say, destroying now
They are not demanding justice, they are just trash

Click to expand...

_Wow! We have met sometime in the past "Trash!". No wonder they burned that trash in a public trash dump fpr 14 hours and nobody noticed. That trash remonds me of the "trash" that demanded the right to vote in 1950s Alabama. We are not on the same planet.


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## SirRon

I agree, Today's governments in the world have become softies, they don't want to be labeled as oppressors

more than 20,000 hotel reservations canceled in Acapulco

I was looking forward to watching the 3rd annual air show here in Acapulco with my family, now I learned this was canceled


----------



## GARYJ65

buzzbar said:


> I respect the opinions of you both as Mexican citizens. Being a resident, all I can do is watch and read….and I’m heartened by what I’m seeing.
> 
> Who knows how it’ll develop, but reports of protestors taking over Acapulco airport, setting PRI offices on fire and causing serious disruption across the country, gives me hope that this time it might be different. That this time the courageous people who are out on the streets are refusing to limit themselves to the usual ‘letting off steam’ protests that the Mexican government has allowed and used so successfully in the past to manage anger and discontent.
> 
> Instead we’re seeing strong and powerful action being taken by the Mexican people. Fantastic! And I’m sure no protestor is paying any attention to the weak and timid who wring their hands, throw out the usual labels of ‘anarchist’ and ‘trouble maker’ and fret over any ‘inconvenience’ that the protests might cause. Codswallop!!
> 
> I see it as protesters saying “No, this time we won’t be satisfied with peaceful – but totally futile – protest action. No longer! This time we won’t be dismissed or patronized. We are outraged! By our actions we’ll make sure that Mexico and the world can’t minimize or ignore the atrocity of Iguala. We’ll keep the issue alive until all those involved are brought to justice and the nation starts a serious debate on how we can prevent the horrors of Iguala ever happening again!”
> 
> If I had the choice, I’d be out on the streets with them. Bravo to them all!!!


And then, burn and damage historical doors, looting stores, beating up people, kidnapping the chief of police in Iguala, beating him up, kicking him.
Attacking communications and airports.
This is not a Die hard movie, there are other ways, much better than violence.
Those guys are brainless people and would not think it twice if you or me were there to beat us up.


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## GARYJ65

Hound Dog said:


> Wow! We have met sometime in the past "Trash!". No wonder they burned that trash in a public trash dump fpr 14 hours and nobody noticed. That trash remonds me of the "trash" that demanded the right to vote in 1950s Alabama. We are not on the same planet.


The trashy ones I am referring to are not the victims that were killed and burned, but the protestors after the facts 
I feel VERY VERY sorry for those young students, and I am outraged for what happened to them


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## GARYJ65

By the way, that 14 hr burning story, I don't buy it at all

It takes a different method to burn down to ashes 43 bodies
I know that since I have experience on the meat meal process


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## citlali

Actually it tkes 3 hours at over 1000 degrees in an oven designed just for that.. and it was raining. Another question is why would they go into that much trouble to make the bodies disappear when the hills around there are full of bodies...
By the way they only caught 3 who were involved? they needed a whole lot more than 3 to carry the dead bodies to that hole and interrogate the living , shooting them then burning them. You also need all the tires and wood and whatever they used to keep the fire going for 12 hours in the rain and then more people to break up all the remains an bag them...who were the other participants?
It is not the whole story no question about that.


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## citlali

I have to say it takes 3 hours to burn one body to ashes in a crematorium. 43 bodies is another sory all together.


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## ojosazules11

ojosazules11 said:


> Here is an opinion article from La Jornada today. It resonated deeply with me, so I've translated it.
> 
> The link is to the article in Spanish:
> La Jornada: Ayotzinapa: compasión y redención
> 
> Ayotzinapa: Compassion and Redemption
> By Carlos Martinez Garcia
> 
> The mass demonstrations clamouring for justice in the case of the 43 normalista students from Ayotzinapa are moving acts of collective compassion. The horror did not happen only to them, but also to us. Let us remember that compassion means "to suffer with", to feel as our own that which harms others.
> .....
> 
> The dreadful wrong which was savagely carried out against the group of students on the night of September 26 has mobilized countless men and women who are exhausted of so much political and moral putrefaction. .... In the midst of all this suffering ... a moral reserve has emerged which can guide us to new paths, to reconstruct the social fabric which has been ripped for decades through predatory politics by governing elites. .... It is necessary that those who maliciously orchestrated the disappearance of the students be brought to justice and pay a penal cost for their actions. Those who carefully wove the symbiosis between organized crime and various levels of government are also implicated.
> 
> Another area which needs radical change is the way in which individuals rise to power and how they wield that power. ..... It is urgent to rescue Mexico, to free her from the slavery of corruption, where holding political office results in exorbitant wealth, free her from the lack of respect for human rights, from impunity which empowers further perpetration of mass crimes, from extreme poverty which beats down millions of people daily, from networks which sexually exploit women and children, from governmental institutions which do not follow the very laws which brought them into existence.
> .......
> 
> The marches which have shaken Mexico ... are notable for their example and spirit. The contingents of university students, workers, intellectuals, members of various religious groups, and citizens with no party affiliation have overwhelmingly chosen a peaceful route. There has been a cross-current of a handful of those who attack both private and public installations. In doing this they are not only damaging or destroying material goods, some of which have great symbolic and historical value, but they are also harming the struggle of the vast majority, those who show their faces and express their deep pain and indignation without harming the rights of other citizens. ..... The actions of these few who hide behind the bandanas covering their faces are sabotaging the millions who are civilly showing their faces and publicly assuming responsibility for their actions.
> 
> The redemption of the wounded Mexican nation cannot be put off. We have before us "kairos", the opportune time, the breaking point when we decide what direction to take at the crossroads currently facing our nation. We must redeem the oppressive structures, be freed from all things which prevent life with dignity for each citizen, and we must do this in nonviolent ways.




I realize the majority of the discussion regarding Iguala and the protests has shifted to this thread. Last night I posted an opinion article by a Mexican journalist on the other thread about Iguala. I have included excerpts from that article in the quote above. The link to the post with the full article is here: 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/mexico-expat-forum-expats-living-mexico/598874-iguala-guerrero-2.html#post5732682

In addition to identifying deeply with the content and focus of the article I posted above, I also feel it is relevant to some other "inquietudes" (concerns, uneasiness) I have had around discussions on the forum about Iguala and in the past various threads about corruption in Mexico.

1. For those readers who don't know Mexico and her people, I worry that they are getting a skewed perspective, as if most Mexicans are lawless, corrupt and violent. This is simply not true. Most Mexicans, as so eloquently expressed by the Mexican author of the above article, have a deep desire and longing for a country and society with rule of law, respect for each person and for basic human rights, where all people can live in dignity and without fear. 

As HD rightly points out, so many have remained silent because if they speak out individually or even in small groups, there will be reprisals and they may become yet another unidentified body in a "fosa" (clandestine grave). But as a protest sign at one of the recent marches said, "There will not be a fosa big enough to silence us all." When people join together in solidarity, societal and political transformation becomes possible. There will be much effort to subvert and derail such a movement, including by trying to take it to such extremes that it alienates the majority of people and gives the authorities justification for clamping down on all protest. I truly hope that genuine leaders emerge with a vision for healthy, transformative change, and that they are able to harness the current energy and guide it in a positive direction.

2. In past discussions on different threads there have been a couple of different takes on corruption in Mexico. One is that corruption is "in the DNA" of Mexico. While I am not blind or wilfully ignorant about entrenched corruption at all levels of government in Mexico, to say it is in the DNA implies that Mexicans are inherently, genetically corrupt. I find this offensive. The vast majority of Mexicans I have known - both family (through my husband) and friends - are honest, upright, decent people, who are deeply distressed by the corruption and violence which has become so common place. I simply do not believe, based on my personal experience as well as reading from a wide variety of sources, that this corruption and violence reflects the values and actions of most Mexicans. I would actually say it is the antithesis of what most hold dear. I see community-mindedess, family, and hard work as 3 significant underlying values in Mexican society, and I think that these values are what are now causing people to feel they've reached a breaking point - as per Twitter many are now saying "Ya me cansé".

An opposing theme on some of those threads about corruption is that those from NOB are trying to impose our cultural standards on Mexico, and that we are somehow being arrogant and sticking our nose where it doesn't belong when denouncing corruption. I think the idea that corruption is an historical part of Mexican culture and does not need to be changed is self-serving for those who benefit from it. I have asked many, many Mexican friends if I am somehow being disrespectful of Mexican culture by denouncing corruption. The universal answer I have gotten is that such an assertion is ridiculous, that most Mexicans are sick and tired of corruption and impunity. Mind you, I don't run in the circles with people who directly benefit from bribes and corruption... Again, the article above is by a Mexican so no one can accuse him of trying to impose some foreign cultural standard on Mexico.

3. Protests and violence are not synonymous, just as calling for nonviolence does not mean standing by passively and wringing one's hands. There is a 3rd way, that of nonviolent direct action, which is not without risk, but which has brought about change in other contexts. Some will argue that the ends justify the means. I prefer Gandhi's concept of satyagraha, that the means and the ends are inseparable.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=GARYJ65;5737962]By the way, that 14 hr burning story, I don't buy it at all

It takes a different method to burn down to ashes 43 bodies
I know that since I have experience on the meat meal process[/QUOTE]_

On this we agree, Gary. Add to that the fact that it seems to have rained copiously the night of the supposed massacre and body burnong and the notion that three guys burned, transported and disposed of that many bodies. 

Consistent and repetitive lies, fear and distrust rule Mexico. Nobody sees, hears or says anything. This is what gave Adolf Hitler, "Shorty" Guzmán and George Wallace among many other déspots and criminals their power bases.


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## SirRon

lots of good news on this facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/soloenacapulco

also some videos of the protesters beating a cop 

lots of news here you wont see anywhere else


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## SirRon

SirRon said:


> lots of good news on this facebook page
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/soloenacapulco
> 
> also some videos of the protesters beating a cop
> 
> lots of news here you wont see anywhere else



reports say the Acapulco officer died

Confirma Jorge Camacho muerte de policía atacado en Acapulco


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## Longford

SirRon said:


> reports say the Acapulco officer died


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## SirRon

I went to the beach this afternoon, hardly a soul there, very shocking to see acapulco like this


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

SirRon said:


> lots of good news on this facebook page
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/soloenacapulco
> 
> also some videos of the protesters beating a cop
> 
> lots of news here you wont see anywhere else


Are you saying that this is also good news, bracketed twice by that phrase, "good news"?

"also some videos of the protesters beating a cop"


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## SirRon

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Are you saying that this is also good news, bracketed twice by that phrase, "good news"?
> 
> "also some videos of the protesters beating a cop"




it's a good source for news is what i meant to say


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## SirRon

I am truly saddened with all the protests here in Acapulco

I remember how Acapulco used to be before all this.

Also survived hurricane manuel, I rented a condo just before it hit and was on vacation with some friends from the USA who where down visiting

It's still a Wonderful city and I am very proud to say that I live here

just hope others can see that too


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## adoborepublic

I hope this turmoil die down when I come over to Mexico this January. My itinerary is set to a week in Acapulco and then another week in Mexico city. I'm so looking forward to exploring those 2 destinations in Mexico after spending the last 2 years in the Yucatan & Riviera Maya area.


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## SirRon

adoborepublic said:


> I hope this turmoil die down when I come over to Mexico this January. My itinerary is set to a week in Acapulco and then another week in Mexico city. I'm so looking forward to exploring those 2 destinations in Mexico after spending the last 2 years in the Yucatan & Riviera Maya area.


will it be your first time in acapulco? :welcome:


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## adoborepublic

SirRon said:


> will it be your first time in acapulco? :welcome:


Yes, SirRon. And I'm really thrilled to experience it. I'm still going ahead although a friend from Mexico city cautioned me on taking the bus to DF.


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## SirRon

adoborepublic said:


> Yes, SirRon. And I'm really thrilled to experience it. I'm still going ahead although a friend from Mexico city cautioned me on taking the bus to DF.


if you travel to DF from Acapulco VIA bus I suggest, CostaLine, they have very comfortable busses with seats that recline and have foot rest, 

at min buy the pluss ticket for more room and less people on the bus, 

diamante ticket, get more leg room and even less people on the bus, free sandwich chips soda and coffee, 

and both have lcd tv's built into the seats you can even pair your cellphone up to the tv's via bluetooth

some may argue the de oro bus line is better, but I have never heard a costaline bus get robbed

pluss and diamonte service is non stop also


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## Dray2

adoborepublic said:


> I hope this turmoil die down when I come over to Mexico this January. My itinerary is set to a week in Acapulco and then another week in Mexico city. I'm so looking forward to exploring those 2 destinations in Mexico after spending the last 2 years in the Yucatan & Riviera Maya area.


You'll find many fellow Canadians here at that time. I'm seeing many of the regulars that spend the winter here already walking the streets of my neighborhood and the Costera. Many of my U.S. friends are here also and many more will be here in February. Of the countless people I know that travel here year after year not one of them has even given a thought of cancelling their vacation. They have been to many of the other wonderful beach destinations Mexico has to offer but have fallen in love with Acapulco and its people. They all have 10 to 30 plus years of annual trips here. Have a nice time.


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## Longford

SirRon said:


> if you travel to DF from Acapulco VIA bus I suggest, CostaLine, they have very comfortable busses with seats that recline and have foot rest,
> 
> at min buy the pluss ticket for more room and less people on the bus,
> 
> diamante ticket, get more leg room and even less people on the bus, free sandwich chips soda and coffee,
> 
> and both have lcd tv's built into the seats you can even pair your cellphone up to the tv's via bluetooth
> 
> some may argue the de oro bus line is better, but I have never heard a costaline bus get robbed
> 
> pluss and diamonte service is non stop also


Unless my memory has failed me, you're describing classes of service on Estrella de Oro busses, not Costa Line. That said, I've traveled to ACA from the D.F. on both of these companies, and, IMO, Estrella de Oro is the better of the two. The good thing, though, is both companies will get someone to ACA.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Dray2;5768977]You'll find many fellow Canadians here at that time. I'm seeing many of the regulars that spend the winter here already walking the streets of my neighborhood and the Costera. Many of my U.S. friends are here also and many more will be here in February. Of the countless people I know that travel here year after year not one of them has even given a thought of cancelling their vacation. They have been to many of the other wonderful beach destinations Mexico has to offer but have fallen in love with Acapulco and its people. *They all have 10 to 30 plus years of annual trips here. *Have a nice time.[/QUOTE]_

I appreciate your comments, Dray and certainly they are as cogent as mine. 

For many of us,Acapulco is yesterday. Elvis, Connie Frances and Paul Anka. The first color televisión set. 3-D glasses. RC Cola and Moon Pies. Brown beaches fronting turbid waters before Mexico opened the Caribbean swamps and Huatulco. Two movies (a Lash Larue western and the Bowery Boys with a Daffy Duck cartoon) and propaganda newsfilms about fat ladies and no cars in the Soviet Unión and those old advertisements for hot popcorn in the lobby and 1958 Ford Thunderbirds with the dual exhausts and the revolutionary new mechanically openable convertable top and the embarrassment of asking Billy Bob pharmacist for a rubber just knowing he was going to the same church as your dad who would then lecture you on the dangers of fornication and your mom with that ridiculous hat she wore to services with the semi-veil and on and on..


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## adoborepublic

SirRon said:


> if you travel to DF from Acapulco VIA bus I suggest, CostaLine, they have very comfortable busses with seats that recline and have foot rest, at min buy the pluss ticket for more room and less people on the bus, diamante ticket, get more leg room and even less people on the bus, free sandwich chips soda and coffee, and both have lcd tv's built into the seats you can even pair your cellphone up to the tv's via bluetooth some may argue the de oro bus line is better, but I have never heard a costaline bus get robbed pluss and diamonte service is non stop also


Thank you for the information, SirRon. Yes, that's my plan. Take the bus from ACA to DF which I always do whenever I'm in CAncun. But like I said, an acquaintance from DF cautioned me about the blockades that's happening because of the recent issues in Guerrero. My only concern is the interruption it may cause in my 2 week holiday, not really because I fear for my safety. 




Dray2 said:


> You'll find many fellow Canadians here at that time. I'm seeing many of the regulars that spend the winter here already walking the streets of my neighborhood and the Costera. Many of my U.S. friends are here also and many more will be here in February. Of the countless people I know that travel here year after year not one of them has even given a thought of cancelling their vacation. They have been to many of the other wonderful beach destinations Mexico has to offer but have fallen in love with Acapulco and its people. They all have 10 to 30 plus years of annual trips here. Have a nice time.


Thanks, Dray. I am not cancelling my trip to Mexico. I never had. Even if the winter storm that happened last January almost did cancelled my plans. It's part of my research on where to stay in Mexico for the winter, and so I am excited to find out what's waiting for me there in Acapulco. I've seen how it is in CAncun, the Riviera Maya & the Yucatan - and so I figured its time to change destinations. And I chose Acapulco over Puerto VAllarta (as suggested by a friend).


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## SirRon

Longford said:


> Unless my memory has failed me, you're describing classes of service on Estrella de Oro busses, not Costa Line. That said, I've traveled to ACA from the D.F. on both of these companies, and, IMO, Estrella de Oro is the better of the two. The good thing, though, is both companies will get someone to ACA.




costaline bus station is new, also the busses are newer, and yes they have pluss and diamante service just like estrella de oro 

me waves both hands in the air:

Left Hand: estrella de oro with older busses older bus station, 
Right Hand: costaline newer busses, brand new bus station

i pick right hand ( newer bus, brand new bus station )


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## SirRon

Last night I was laying in bed watching netflix on my tablet, somewhere around 2:30am I felt what I thought was a earthquake, then i chucked it off thinking I might have smoked one too many Mexican Marlboro Cigarros, continued with my movies

get up this morning I see this in the local paper:

El temblor de la madrugada no causó daños en Costa Grande

so we did have a couple small quakes last night after all


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## Longford

SirRon said:


> ... so we did have a couple small quakes last night after all


Here's a link to the website which shows where, when and how strong the earthquakes in Mexico are:

Earthquakes in Mexico


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## SirRon

Longford said:


> Here's a link to the website which shows where, when and how strong the earthquakes in Mexico are:
> 
> Earthquakes in Mexico




thank you Longford


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## Longford

Dray2 said:


> You'll find many fellow Canadians here at that time. I'm seeing many of the regulars that spend the winter here already walking the streets of my neighborhood and the Costera. Many of my U.S. friends are here also and many more will be here in February. Of the countless people I know that travel here year after year not one of them has even given a thought of cancelling their vacation. They have been to many of the other wonderful beach destinations Mexico has to offer but have fallen in love with Acapulco and its people. They all have 10 to 30 plus years of annual trips here. Have a nice time.


Yes lots of Canadians winter in Acapulco. I witnessed this once again when I was in Acapulco January 2014. There has always seemed to be a particularly large group of people who come-down from Quebec. As for the contingent of "regulars" from the USA: yes, nothing seems to deter them. The one large group of "regular" peak season visitors who are no longer "regular" seem to be the gay men ... who now, I'm told, are "regulars" in Puerto Vallarta. I think one essential which is shared by expats who vacation in Acapulco is their affection for Mexico and Mexicans and who enjoy being amongst Mexicans ... something which I sense is lacking in some of the other Mexican destinations. But one of the good things about vacationing or living in Mexico is that there's something for everyone. If someone doesn't like one place, there's almost certainly another they will enjoy.


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## Hound Dog

Longford said:


> Yes lots of Canadians winter in Acapulco. I witnessed this once again when I was in Acapulco January 2014. There has always seemed to be a particularly large group of people who come-down from Quebec. As for the contingent of "regulars" from the USA: yes, nothing seems to deter them. The one large group of "regular" peak season visitors who are no longer "regular" seem to be the gay men ... who now, I'm told, are "regulars" in Puerto Vallarta. I think one essential which is shared by expats who vacation in Acapulco is their affection for Mexico and Mexicans and who enjoy being amongst Mexicans ... something which I sense is lacking in some of the other Mexican destinations. But one of the good things about vacationing or living in Mexico is that there's something for everyone. If someone doesn't like one place, there's almost certainly another they will enjoy.


We have an old San Francisco friend who is famously and proudly gay and Puerto Vallarta was his favorite Mexican destination which he visited often. We had never been there in the days before we moved to Mexico and, as we sat around in a San Francisco bar and Brigitte and I were considering retiring to Mexico, we inquired as to whether or not Puerto Vallarta was,perhaps, a good choice as a retirement destination. We asked him what he thought of the city. His response was; "Damn if I know. When I´m there I never leave the hotel room."


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Has this become widely known?

MEXICO CITY (AP) — The U.S. Embassy in Mexico issued a security message Friday warning U.S. citizens to avoid the Pacific resort of Acapulco because of violence and protests.

US warns citizens to avoid resort of Acapulco


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## SirRon

MEXICO CITY (AP) -- The U.S. Embassy in Mexico has issued a security message warning U.S. citizens to avoid the Pacific resort of Acapulco because of violence and protests. 

News from The Associated Press

Has went from an advisory in October to a warning now


----------

