# Updated border crossing info: Vehicles



## telcoman

_*I have updated my web page on border crossings with what information I have. I have been dealing with Banercito over vehicle permits and it is like pulling teeth.

Anyway here it is: If anyone can add or correct anything it would be appreciated.*_

*PART 1*

*Vehicle requirements:*

Permits can now be obtained on line. See instruccionesIITV

Early reports indicate this process is working well.

Click to Download Fuel price Convertor Canada-US-Mexico (MS Excel format)



You require a passport, a credit card, drivers license & all your vehicle registration. If the vehicle is leased, you require the lease agreement plus a legally notarized permission to take the vehicle into Mexico, even if you own the company. It is best to have this in Spanish. Make 2 copies of everything before leaving home, it will speed things up. There is usually a copy machine at the border. You will need copies of your tourist card, but it will speed things up if that is all you need. At the border you will have to purchase tourist cards & a vehicle permit. Allow about $100 for everything, other than your vehicle deposit which I describe later on. Try to have $100 US worth of Mexican Peso's, for incidentals, until you can find an ATM.

*Note: *Under new rules as of Spring 2011, you will have to pay a deposit of $200-$400 depending on vehicle year (<2000 $200, 2001-2006 $300, 2007 & newer $400). This is to ensure the vehicle is returned to the US. The money will be returned or credited back to your credit card when you leave the country. You have to use either Visa, MC or US Cash. I have seen reports of problems getting the credit card credited on exit, I recommend using cash. You will be refunded cash on the spot upon exit.

It can take up to 4 hours to clear the border, but an hour is more usual. Please note that at some crossings you have to do all this, maybe 20 km south of the border, rather than at the border itself. Vehicle permits are not required for Baja or for the northern part of Sonora State. You still need a tourist card. Even so, make sure you have all the legal documents for your vehicle.

Vehicle permits are good for 6 months, although you can get a 10 year one for some RV's (Class A's & C's & some Class B's, plus 5th Wheels & Trailers (but not the tow vehicle). This may not be a good idea, unless you plan to leave the vehicle in Mexico for a few years and not bring it back into the US. It can cause you a lot of grief if you write the vehicle off or sell it sometime during those 10 years. However, it does allow you to leave the RV in Mexico & fly home. If you do write off a vehicle in Mexico, get the hunk of windshield with the sticker attached , plus ensure the police & insurance reports show the vehicle VIN number. Unless you turn these in at the border, you will not be permitted to take another vehicle into Mexico at a later date. If you do have an accident, phone your insurance provider immediately and do not admit blame. They will provide a lawyer. You may or may not need a separate permits for motorcycles & ATV's. It depends on the engine size. If you have a scooter, the word for that is "motoneta".

Up to 3 items can be added to a vehicle permit, including trailers, scooters, ATV's (Maybe a Truck Camper) but see the "Gray Area's" section below.

So, photocopy the following

1) Your passport front page

2) Any vehicle registrations

3) Your birth certificate

4) Photocopies of your drivers license (or licenses if more than one vehicle) - front & back

5) Photocopies of your credit card

6) Copies of notarized permission to take any leased or company vehicle into Mexico.

You may or may not need all of those. You will have to get photocopies of your Mexican visa at the border itself.

It is very important to get a receipt for your vehicle permit when you cross back into the US, no matter what crossing you use. Failure to return the sticker will prevent you from entering Mexico in future and even if you have returned it, their record keeping system is far from perfect, so you should retain a receipt. You cannot return it at all border crossings. You can no longer return at Tecate, for example.

Crossing back into the USA can be a 2 or 3 hour experience. You may not bring any Pork or Chicken products across and some vegetables are not allowed, specifically potatoes & avocado's. If your remove the pit from the avocado's & cook the potatoes, they are OK. Most fruits are prohibited.

Please note your vehicle may be searched by US border control on the US side and again by Mexican border patrol on the Mexican side. They are looking for guns going south & drugs going north. Both governments stepped this up in 2010.

*Continued in Part 2*


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## telcoman

*PART 2*

Here are some documentation examples (some areas painted out for privacy):

*Vehicle permit:*










*Vehicle Insurance:*










*Exit receipt:*










*IMPORTANT:* I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to return this permit before you cross back. If you do not, you will not only forfeit the $200-$400 bond you placed on your credit card, you may also be unable to ever bring another vehicle into Mexico again. If you write off your vehicle in Mexico, or have the windshield replaced, ensure you keep the glass with the permit on it and have a police report showing the VIN number of the vehicle. In the case of a windshield, it is not so important since you will have the original vehicle &, its VIN number shows on the sticker. You need all of that sticker, however, even if it is pieces. As a precaution I always take a copy of the sticker before applying it to the windshield on the way down. If the original is unrecoverable, at least that may suffice. Maybe.

*Gray areas:*

Unfortunately there are some gray area with regards to vehicle permits. I have been unable to get a straight answer from Banercito on any of these issues, and believe me, I have tried. They are:

Truck Campers

Motorcycles & ATV's

Cargo Trailers

Can you leave a vehicle in Mexico while you fly home, for eg over Christmas?

*Truck Campers: *These seem to fall between the cracks when it comes to RV rules. You cannot seem to get a 10 year RV permit for them. In some States & Provinces they are not even registered, so presenting paperwork would be a problem. I suspect a 10 year permit may be able to be obtained if the Camper is registered. In my case I have never had a permit or had it added to my truck permit. They appear to consider it part of the truck. What worries me is if I am in an accident or it is stolen. I would try to obtain some sort of documentation with its VIN number to prove you own it. Insurance certificate and/or Bill of Sale.

*Motorcycles: *From what I can determine you can bring in a motorcycle under 150 cc (it may actually be 250 cc, another thing I cannot get a straight answer on) without a separate permit. They have added my 50 cc scooter to my truck permit each year. The rule actually states it should be unlicensed, so my advice is remove the plate when entering or leaving Mexico & put it back on when in Mexico. Make sure you do show them the registration when you enter, however.

*ATV's:* In theory to bring an ATV in you must have a passenger with you. One gas powered vehicle per passenger, although as with scooters this appears to be flexible.

*Cargo Trailers:* These can be added to the towing vehicle permit. You may have trouble if they have no VIN number such as in the case of a homemade trailer.
*
Temporary trips home:* From what I can tell (And I have had contradictory info on this one as well), you can definitely leave an RV with a 10 year permit in Mexico & fly home, you cannot leave a vehicle with a 180 day permit in Mexico & fly home. Lots of people have done it, but now they are supposedly tying Passport numbers to vehicle permits, you could find yourself in trouble. In my case my wife does fly home. I make sure the vehicle permit is in my name, not hers.

*Vehicle Insurance:*

You must have Mexican insurance. Expect to pay about $60 - $75 US for each $10,000 of value (RV & truck). This is for a 6 month policy, the most economical. You can purchase insurance before crossing. AJO, Mexpro, Don Smith, Baja Bound, Sanborns, Motor Mexico. Lewis & Lewis, Sanborns or San Xavier are a few that are recommended. Shop around & compare coverage & price, but it is best to use one that others have recommended and you know are OK. Do not underinsure yourself. In many cases you can get a rebate from your insurer for the time spent in Mexico. Ask them what proof they require that your vehicle was below the border. This will likely give you a couple of hundred back. If not, consider cancelling your North American insurance for the day after you cross & re-instating the day before you return. (more info on this below). Another trick to save money is to consider placing storage insurance on any vehicles you leave at home.

You may buy insurance for various periods from 1 day & up. At some point it becomes more economical to buy a 6 month policy. In most cases, one policy can cover your truck, RV and other vehicles like scooters or ATV's & trailers.

You can often buy insurance where you obtain your vehicle permit. Unfortunately this is often 20 km into Mexico, and Murphy's law increases your chance of having an accident in those 20 km. Remember an accident in Mexico is a felony, not misdemeanor. Buy your insurance before crossing the border.

If you have an accident, immediately phone the number given to you by the insurance provider. Do not admit blame, let them handle it. This is a good reason to have a cell phone. Even if its an American or Canadian cell phone & the call is expensive. The police will very likely impound the vehicle until things are settled. In Mexico you are guilty till proven innocent. The insurance company will take care of legal aspects & provide an interpreter. It is not as bad as it sounds, your Mexican insurance provider is used to being able to deal with it.

Here is another article on the subject by Jim Labelle.

*Check with your insurance company *. You may be able to get a rebate for your insurance for the period you are in Mexico. For example, ICBC in British Columbia does this. Check with them to see what documentation & proof you will require for a rebate. If you are down for 4 or more months, chances are it will neutralize the cost of your Mexican insurance. Make sure campground receipts show your plate number & keep entry & exit receipts plus toll road receipts. Some US insurance companies also provide collision coverage in Mexico & you may only have to buy liability coverage. If your RV is separate from your vehicle, like a Truck camper or trailer, also check with the company insuring that.


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## RVGRINGO

I don't know of anyone who has successfully taken a piece of windshield with the sticker to the border as proof that the vehicle has been totally destroyed. You are required to take the vehicle out of Mexico. Period. You'll even have to pay up if it is stolen. 
Getting around these rules is infrequently possible and usually takes deep pockets and years of time. So, if you 'lose' your vehicle in Mexico, don't plan on ever bringing in another one in the same name. Married folks simply bring the next vehicle registered to the other spouse. Single folks are SOL.


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## telcoman

That is a rather sobering thought. I have heard of one person who was successful after destroying a vehicle, but they did have a police report with the VIN number and a hunk of the sticker.


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## RVGRINGO

Mexico really wants to see the entire vehicle removed from the country. Remember, Mexico makes vehicles and parts and wants to protect those businesses, as well as eliminate older polluting vehicles.


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## Mexicodrifter

The biggest problem seems to be for those of us who have an FM2, FM3 and are entering the republic. The Money taken will never be returned because the permit is for 6 months whic most of us would exceed. If, after living in Mexico for say 2 fyears one wiches to travel to the states the cash would not be returned because the sticker would be expired.
I talked at length witht eh Banercito aobut this and they assured me that that would be the case. The Aduana was of no help at all. 
But, there may be a place to write to in each state that will extend the sticker time. The Aduana will know this address.
Even though a person of FM2 or FM3 status has the right to own and operate a vihicle in Mexico without further paperwork than a stick and his current immigrationd card, the new law does not yet adress the problem.


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## RVGRINGO

Sorry, Mexicodrifter, but those of us with visas and 'importadas temporales' issued since the new deposit rules, may extend and protect our deposits indefinitely. It is done by writing to Aduana in Mexico city, with a copy of one's renewed visa card, within 15 days of such renewal. 
There may be a specific form to use and, here at Chapala, one of our occasional posters, Intercasa, can provide assistance, if needed.


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## AlwaysSilver

Thanks RVGringo for the update. I have left a vehicle in Q'roo and will return within a month. My agent in Mexico indicates that I can renew every 6 months by going up to Cancun, use my FM2, paperwork on the car including insurance statement and original title, and renew very simply. 

I will find out if this actually works at the end of Feb 2012 when I go to renew.

I did leave a US$300 deposit when I originally imported the car and don't want to lose this, so I am being careful.


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## RVGRINGO

This is all new and a real nuisance. I can see a lot of money vanishing into the coffers because of forgetfulness and/or slow mail, etc.
There is also the 'confusion factor'.
Things are getting tighter, as well as more expensive; perhaps in retaliation against US policies toward Mexicans. I guess we can't blame them, but it does make life just a bit more complicated than it had been. We're going to solve the problem by taking our US plated car back to the USA and selling it to CarMax; then, we'll be able to change to permanent residents (inmigrado) and not have to deal with 'officialdom' any more.


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## AlwaysSilver

RVGRINGO said:


> This is all new and a real nuisance. I can see a lot of money vanishing into the coffers because of forgetfulness and/or slow mail, etc.
> There is also the 'confusion factor'.
> Things are getting tighter, as well as more expensive; perhaps in retaliation against US policies toward Mexicans. I guess we can't blame them, but it does make life just a bit more complicated than it had been. We're going to solve the problem by taking our US plated car back to the USA and selling it to CarMax; then, we'll be able to change to permanent residents (inmigrado) and not have to deal with 'officialdom' any more.


Will update the outcome of my February 2012 adventure when completed. If anyone can confirm the Cancun renewal, it will be appreciated.

Good thing seems that if I stay in Q'roo, even after an expiration of my sticker, I should not be hassled. Different story I am told if I leave the state...then Federal Policia may get a little bent out of shape. Not planning on "testing the waters"


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## RVGRINGO

The danger is in having a vehicle impounded and having a very long and difficult time getting it back; if ever. The reasons can be very convoluted.


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## AlwaysSilver

RVGRINGO said:


> The danger is in having a vehicle impounded and having a very long and difficult time getting it back; if ever. The reasons can be very convoluted.


Agreed. Not really planning on this extreme problem.

:boom:


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## Schmo

I just ran into another situation. I went into the US a month before my FM renewal. When I came back into Mexico they would only issue the vehicle permit to coincide with my FM so I paid $300 bucks for a permit that was only good for 3 weeks. I'm getting fed up with having my pocket picked


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## pappabee

Schmo said:


> I just ran into another situation. I went into the US a month before my FM renewal. When I came back into Mexico they would only issue the vehicle permit to coincide with my FM so I paid $300 bucks for a permit that was only good for 3 weeks. I'm getting fed up with having my pocket picked


I understand your concerns but what would you expect them to do? Your import permit is tied into the dates on your FM. This by law and works very well for those of us who renew our FM 2 or 3 each year. The permit expires when your FM does. Were you aware that you can renew your FM2 or 3 thirty days prior to expiration?


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## TundraGreen

pappabee said:


> I understand your concerns but what would you expect them to do? Your import permit is tied into the dates on your FM. This by law and works very well for those of us who renew our FM 2 or 3 each year. The permit expires when your FM does. Were you aware that you can renew your FM2 or 3 thirty days prior to expiration?


And it is 30 working days, or it least it was last time I renewed in Guadalajara. So, you can renew 6 weeks prior to expiration.


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## geebeebee

I just read the advice here saying that I can't fly in&out of Mexico while my car is in Mexico. Well, it's too late, because I just returned to Mexico after being in the US for a week. I entered Mexico on a tourist visa almost 2 months ago. What does this mean for me? If I drive out of Mexico will I never be allowed to enter with another car? Will they keep my deposit?


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## RVGRINGO

Your car was temporarily imported on your first FMM, good for 180 days. I suggest that you get the car to the border, have Aduana remove the sticker legally, and get your receipt before that original 180 days expires. One day after expiry, your deposit will vanish forever.
If they ask for that original FMM ...... it got lost ....... Don't show the new one!
Exit, and get a new FMM and then get a new permit for your car.
Next step: Get a proper visa, which will make leaving without your car a legal act. Immediately, notify Aduana of the new visa and they'll issue a letter which will protect your deposit. Do that again on every renewal.


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## geebeebee

RVGRINGO said:


> Your car was temporarily imported on your first FMM, good for 180 days. I suggest that you get the car to the border, have Aduana remove the sticker legally, and get your receipt before that original 180 days expires. One day after expiry, your deposit will vanish forever.
> If they ask for that original FMM ...... it got lost ....... Don't show the new one!
> Exit, and get a new FMM and then get a new permit for your car.
> Next step: Get a proper visa, which will make leaving without your car a legal act. Immediately, notify Aduana of the new visa and they'll issue a letter which will protect your deposit. Do that again on every renewal.


Thanks for the advice. You think there's a chance that they might check my Passport for dated stamps to make sure that I wasn't in & out?


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## RVGRINGO

I've never had a passport stamped in or out of Mexico; only the old FM3 booklets. That said, I haven't been out of Mexico in many years.
Your 'importada temporal' is tied to your passport, so I suppose they could ask to see it. I don't know.


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## dstan

*FMM to FM3...what happens to the deposit?*

Im entering Mexico with my car on an FMM. But I intend to get my FM3 this winter while I'm there. If I understand this thread correctly, I will have to make application "somewhere?" to extend my car permit annually at the same time I renew my FM3? And so if I leave my car there I basically I forfeit my deposit until I finally bring it out...maybe years from now?
thanks


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## dstan

telcoman said:


> _*I have updated my web page on border crossings with what information I have. I have been dealing with Banercito over vehicle permits and it is like pulling teeth.
> 
> Anyway here it is: If anyone can add or correct anything it would be appreciated.*_
> 
> *PART 1*
> 
> *Vehicle requirements:*
> 
> Permits can now be obtained on line. See instruccionesIITV
> 
> Early reports indicate this process is working well.
> 
> Click to Download Fuel price Convertor Canada-US-Mexico (MS Excel format)
> 
> 
> 
> You require a passport, a credit card, drivers license & all your vehicle registration. If the vehicle is leased, you require the lease agreement plus a legally notarized permission to take the vehicle into Mexico, even if you own the company. It is best to have this in Spanish. Make 2 copies of everything before leaving home, it will speed things up. There is usually a copy machine at the border. You will need copies of your tourist card, but it will speed things up if that is all you need. At the border you will have to purchase tourist cards & a vehicle permit. Allow about $100 for everything, other than your vehicle deposit which I describe later on. Try to have $100 US worth of Mexican Peso's, for incidentals, until you can find an ATM.
> 
> *Note: *Under new rules as of Spring 2011, you will have to pay a deposit of $200-$400 depending on vehicle year (<2000 $200, 2001-2006 $300, 2007 & newer $400). This is to ensure the vehicle is returned to the US. The money will be returned or credited back to your credit card when you leave the country. You have to use either Visa, MC or US Cash. I have seen reports of problems getting the credit card credited on exit, I recommend using cash. You will be refunded cash on the spot upon exit.
> 
> It can take up to 4 hours to clear the border, but an hour is more usual. Please note that at some crossings you have to do all this, maybe 20 km south of the border, rather than at the border itself. Vehicle permits are not required for Baja or for the northern part of Sonora State. You still need a tourist card. Even so, make sure you have all the legal documents for your vehicle.
> 
> Vehicle permits are good for 6 months, although you can get a 10 year one for some RV's (Class A's & C's & some Class B's, plus 5th Wheels & Trailers (but not the tow vehicle). This may not be a good idea, unless you plan to leave the vehicle in Mexico for a few years and not bring it back into the US. It can cause you a lot of grief if you write the vehicle off or sell it sometime during those 10 years. However, it does allow you to leave the RV in Mexico & fly home. If you do write off a vehicle in Mexico, get the hunk of windshield with the sticker attached , plus ensure the police & insurance reports show the vehicle VIN number. Unless you turn these in at the border, you will not be permitted to take another vehicle into Mexico at a later date. If you do have an accident, phone your insurance provider immediately and do not admit blame. They will provide a lawyer. You may or may not need a separate permits for motorcycles & ATV's. It depends on the engine size. If you have a scooter, the word for that is "motoneta".
> 
> Up to 3 items can be added to a vehicle permit, including trailers, scooters, ATV's (Maybe a Truck Camper) but see the "Gray Area's" section below.
> 
> So, photocopy the following
> 
> 1) Your passport front page
> 
> 2) Any vehicle registrations
> 
> 3) Your birth certificate
> 
> 4) Photocopies of your drivers license (or licenses if more than one vehicle) - front & back
> 
> 5) Photocopies of your credit card
> 
> 6) Copies of notarized permission to take any leased or company vehicle into Mexico.
> 
> You may or may not need all of those. You will have to get photocopies of your Mexican visa at the border itself.
> 
> It is very important to get a receipt for your vehicle permit when you cross back into the US, no matter what crossing you use. Failure to return the sticker will prevent you from entering Mexico in future and even if you have returned it, their record keeping system is far from perfect, so you should retain a receipt. You cannot return it at all border crossings. You can no longer return at Tecate, for example.
> 
> Crossing back into the USA can be a 2 or 3 hour experience. You may not bring any Pork or Chicken products across and some vegetables are not allowed, specifically potatoes & avocado's. If your remove the pit from the avocado's & cook the potatoes, they are OK. Most fruits are prohibited.
> 
> Please note your vehicle may be searched by US border control on the US side and again by Mexican border patrol on the Mexican side. They are looking for guns going south & drugs going north. Both governments stepped this up in 2010.
> 
> *Continued in Part 2*



Thanks for all the great information. Unfortunately I cant get the site to open from you link to register on line. Any chance you can send another one or tell me where to look? How long does it take to do it this way?


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## Mexicodrifter

You got it to the tee. Better to buy a Mexican car a than the hassle of crossing the border. Bring your thing down in your car, return and sell it and then use the cash to buy Mexican. Good cars, good prices right now and with Mexican platesyou will recieve less troubleon the highways and streets from the police. Really!


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## telcoman

The provided link is correct, I just tested it. Supposedly from reports I have you get the permit within about 10 days. I am not going to do it since I have a 50cc scooter that I suspect they will classify as a vehicle and cause issues. Getting the permit at the border they have simply added it to my truck permit in the past & hopefully will this year as well. I will remove its plate before I cross, so they hopefully simply assume it is used off road, which it more or less is. I keep it off highways, its mainly as an emergency vehicle to go for help on if I break down.

BTW in response to the individual who flew out of the country & left a vehicle with a 180 permit behind, chances are nothing will happen. Lots of people seem to do it, but it is technically not permitted. I suspect once you have removed the car from the country they will not really care. Play ignorant if they do.


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## chicois8

Mexicodrifter said:


> You got it to the tee. Better to buy a Mexican car a than the hassle of crossing the border. Bring your thing down in your car, return and sell it and then use the cash to buy Mexican. Good cars, good prices right now and with Mexican platesyou will recieve less troubleon the highways and streets from the police. Really!



Have to disagree a little bit about US plates vs. Mexican plates...

I have just completed a 40,000 mile drive around, through and 
in about every corner of Mexico, I was stopped once by Federales
who where interested in my vehicle (2011 Subaru) personal California 
plates having never seen the whale tail plates, no ticket no problem...

when coming to military or police road stoppages they see the 
California plate and I am waived through while autos with Mexican plates in front and 
behind me are pulled over and searched....that's my story and I,m sicken to it...


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## docmiller

*Return of Mexican Vehicle Deposit/Request for Extension*



RVGRINGO said:


> Sorry, Mexicodrifter, but those of us with visas and 'importadas temporales' issued since the new deposit rules, may extend and protect our deposits indefinitely. It is done by writing to Aduana in Mexico city, with a copy of one's renewed visa card, within 15 days of such renewal.
> There may be a specific form to use and, here at Chapala, one of our occasional posters, Intercasa, can provide assistance, if needed.


I am in this situation right now. I renewed my FM3 yesterday, and now, I assume, must let Aduana know that I have had my FM3 renewed. I only have 15 days to do this, and assume that it must be done by mail. OR??????? I do not have a specific address in Mexico City where I can send it. I assume a copy of renewed FM3 along with copies of receipts, and permit are sufficient????? Appreciate some information including a specific address where I can send everything. We are in Guayabitos, Nayarit, and I tried to find an Aduana office in Puerto Vallarta, but there was only a SAT office, and they implied that I must drive to Guadalajara, in person, to get this done at a "full service" Aduana office. I would rather forfeit the deposit, and reconsider ever bringing a future vehicle into Mexico. If I can mail it, I assume that Courier would be the most expedient method of doing it. And, if I do, will they respond so that I have something official to produce at the border when they tell me that I unfortunately must lose my deposit due to non compliance??? My first time posting on this site and hopefully can find a response if one is posted. Alternatively, or concurrently could someone send me something direct to my [email protected] email address. There are a large number of people in our area who are as clueless about this as I am. I can pass helpful information along to them. Thank a bundle. Hola Intercasa. The post indicated that you had mailing information. Also appreciate a form if available. Gracias.


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## chicois8

I am also in Guayabitos and have a home/mailing address, if I can help send me a PM.....


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## dstan

RVGRINGO said:


> Sorry, Mexicodrifter, but those of us with visas and 'importadas temporales' issued since the new deposit rules, may extend and protect our deposits indefinitely. It is done by writing to Aduana in Mexico city, with a copy of one's renewed visa card, within 15 days of such renewal.
> There may be a specific form to use and, here at Chapala, one of our occasional posters, Intercasa, can provide assistance, if needed.



I am wondering if you have an update on the new deposit rules in relation to changing immigration satus from tourist to FM3 status while in Mexico.

I entered Mexico with a vehicle in early Dec on a tourist visa. I am planning to get my FM3 (or whatever it is called now) in Feb of 2012. As it stands now, I have to remove my car withing 6 months. Can I get this extended while here in Mexico along with getting my FM3, or do I have to remove the car and enter again? One of the main reasons I am getting my fM3 is to be able to leave the vehicle here and quit with the drive. I do not want to forfiet my deposit.

In your post you mentioned writing to the Aduan in DF. Do you have an address and what do I say?


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## RVGRINGO

Your vehicle remains legal with your current 'importada' sticker, as long as your immigration status is current. In other words; when you get a visa or renew a visa, the car continues to be legal.
To protect your deposit, I understand that you must notify Aduana of your visa renewal. I don't have the contact information; sorry. You might check with Aduana in person, or online for more information.


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## dstan

RVGRINGO said:


> Your vehicle remains legal with your current 'importada' sticker, as long as your immigration status is current. In other words; when you get a visa or renew a visa, the car continues to be legal.
> To protect your deposit, I understand that you must notify Aduana of your visa renewal. I don't have the contact information; sorry. You might check with Aduana in person, or online for more information.


Im planning on changing my immigration status AFTER I entered...from tourist to FM3. Where is the Aduna I must talk to. I am on the coast of Nayarite. thanks again.


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## chicois8

dstan said:


> Im planning on changing my immigration status AFTER I entered...from tourist to FM3. Where is the Aduna I must talk to. I am on the coast of Nayarite. thanks again.


It is in Bucerias, near the Decameron Hotel..........no e in Nayarit..............


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## docmiller

RVGRINGO said:


> Your vehicle remains legal with your current 'importada' sticker, as long as your immigration status is current. In other words; when you get a visa or renew a visa, the car continues to be legal.
> To protect your deposit, I understand that you must notify Aduana of your visa renewal. I don't have the contact information; sorry. You might check with Aduana in person, or online for more information.


 I sent the requisite information to the following addess. I used a courier, and this is the address that they directed my letter to. Administracion General de Aduanas
Avenida Hidalgo, #77 Modulo Primero Piso
Guerrero
Cuahtemoc Mexico DF
06300
Include copies of your renewed FM3 or FM2, along with a copy of your permit (I did front and back), include a copy of the information that you received when you got the permit. Also, do a brief letter in Spanish requesting that they log your new visa in their system. In this Forum, somewhere, there is a four page letter with more specific information. I had a tracking number, and everything arrived where it was supposed to so. You can print a copy of confirmation of delivery which will include a signature of the person who received it. Courier cost was 160 peso.


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## dstan

chicois8 said:


> It is in Bucerias, near the Decameron Hotel..........no e in Nayarit..............




Great! I was afraid I was going to have to go to Guadalaraja. I will post a follow-up about how it turns out for me.


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## telcoman

*New Border Snag*

I crossed at Lukeville this morning. A couple ahead of us had a truck & camper towing an ATV on a small trailer. The ATV was only in her name. They would not give them a TIP unless they could produce their "original" marriage certificate as the ATV was only in her name. They had to turn around & go back to the US. I suppose this is a good reason to ensure all vehicles are in both names, eswpecially if you are common in law. That of course could create an issue if crossing alone without your spouse, but a notorized letter would take care of that.


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## geebeebee

RVGRINGO said:


> Your car was temporarily imported on your first FMM, good for 180 days. I suggest that you get the car to the border, have Aduana remove the sticker legally, and get your receipt before that original 180 days expires. One day after expiry, your deposit will vanish forever.
> If they ask for that original FMM ...... it got lost ....... Don't show the new one!
> Exit, and get a new FMM and then get a new permit for your car.
> Next step: Get a proper visa, which will make leaving without your car a legal act. Immediately, notify Aduana of the new visa and they'll issue a letter which will protect your deposit. Do that again on every renewal.


RVGRINGO, I've been researching FM3 per your advice. Is there any reason you didn't recommend that I apply for the FM3 *before* the expiration of my FMM? Wouldn't that solve my VISA dilemma *and* allow me to extend my car importation?


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## telcoman

On the ATV snag in lukeville I reported a few posts back, i ran into the same couple in Mexico yesterday. They ended up going back to the border & phoning mexico City to get the matter straight. the moral of the story is take as much documentation with you as you can think of, even if you don't think you will need it.


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## chicois8

*Love a good cat fight......*



geebeebee said:


> RVGRINGO, I've been researching FM3 per your advice. Is there any reason you didn't recommend that I apply for the FM3 *before* the expiration of my FMM? Wouldn't that solve my VISA dilemma *and* allow me to extend my car importation?


It appears you are a little upset with Ringo, if you have been researching the FM3 you should have learned one of the perks is being able to leave a vehicle in Mexico while you are out of the country...

That is one of the main reasons folks get an FM3...

Why did you let your FMM expire before thinking about applying for an FM3? Instead of blaming Ringo start by blaming yourself, FMM stands for Multiple Immigration Form, you first get the FMM and in a timely manner you apply for an FM3, did you read the third paragraph on the back of the FMM? That kind of says it all..........suerte y paz

P.S. Always read the fine print.........


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## RVGRINGO

Some things are supposed to be obvious, but may not be glaringly so. Please forgive those of us who try to help, repeatedly, but may occasionally forget to include a detail that does seem to be rather empirical.


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## FHBOY

*Wait A Minute!*



RVGRINGO said:


> Some things are supposed to be obvious, but may not be glaringly so. Please forgive those of us who try to help, repeatedly, but may occasionally forget to include a detail that does seem to be rather empirical.


 Now I'm confused. I thought there wasn't such a thing as an FM3 any more, that all there are is FMM. When did I fall down the rabbit hole, and in late 2012/early 2012 will it matter?


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## RVGRINGO

Just to keep us all on our toes, INM changed the FM3 and FM2 to 'no inmigrante' and 'inmigrante' credentials (a plastic card) well over a year ago. Then, last spring, a new law was signed by President Calderon in order to simplify the INM procedures. He gave INM until November, 2011, to implement the law, but they haven't managed to do so yet. There was a rumor of this month, but the new rumor is later in the spring. Whenever it happens, the two visas mentioned above will be consolidated into a single 'tarjeta de residencia temporal' (temporary residence visa). It is possible that annual renewals may be avoided by paying for a longer term, up to four years; I'm not sure about that yet. After four years, one may apply for a permanent residence visa and be free of future renewals or expenses with INM & also free to work; but probably won't be able to bring a foreign plated car into Mexico.
The only thing that is certain is uncertainty itself.
Once upon a time, one could go from FM3 to citizenship in five years. We missed that one by a couple of months, as they 'reinterpreted' the rules. Now, we've paid the higher price for the 'inmigrante' status, only to find that it will vanish. We plan to become 'permanente' but wonder if they'll still be procrastinating and we'll have to pay the higher price again. I remain uncertain!
The FMM is not a visa. It is simply a multiple purpose entry form, which can be used for people who don't need a visa to visit Mexico for up to 180 days. It includes tourists, as well as other visitors for other purposes; sports, business, consultants, artists, musicians, etc. It cannot be renewed. If one wants to stay in Mexico for a longer time, one must apply for an appropriate visa and must do so within Mexico before the 180 day FMM expires.


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## cscscs007

Thanks RVGRINGO for clarifying this. I thought prior to the changes one had to apply for an FM3 within the first 30 days of getting the FMT, or they would have to wait until renewing the FMT to be able to do so. Being able to chnge from an FMM to a "inmigrante" at any time during the 180 days is much more logical than before.


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## Zepol87

*Not my car*

Ok guys, going to Mexico in a few weeks. I was going to take my car but my mom offered her van for better traveling with the kiddos. Its not paid off yet, financed through for credit. I would just be using it to get the kids down there then coming back fire my car. Its that possible, I know you need anotarized letter saying thats its OK to take the car. So can she get one from for and then I get one from her or not. I was planning on getting there Mexican insurance in my name?


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## chicois8

First of all what year is this van?
It is registered under your moms name and the lien holder correct?
If your mom was driving she would need a letter of permission to leave the USA from the lender.
but your driving and I do not think they will allow it...
You will buy insurance before entering Mexico, how long would you have moms car before returning to the USA?
and will both parents accompany the kids who have passports, Correct?


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## Zepol87

Van is 2006, no they would not be accompanying us. Ok so they wont allow it. I would only have the van for a month tops before returning it to get my car. Yes everyone has passports


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## chicois8

Then I suggest you use your own car, the cost of insurance using your mom's van will pay for a year's worth of coverage for your car...make sure you use a credit card to pay for the deposit for your car and Temp Vehicle Permit and tourist card....
you will need to show the registration, pink slip, copy of your passport and copy of the tourist card you will get there....good luck


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## terrybahena

Hi, I read thru the 5 pages of this thread and apologize if the answer was there for my question- but- we plan to drive our little truck to our new home in Sept. We want to keep the truck in Mexico. My husband is Mexican but the truck is only in my name. I will apply for "inmigrante familial credencial", but how do we keep the truck and "nationalize" it? I thought we were supposed to get the 180 permit, then apply for Mexican plates in the state we're living in (Guerrero). Am I way off? Thanx for any info!


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## cscscs007

Insuring another person's car in your name is a waste of money. The insurance is no good. Only the owner of the car can insure it. 
I would drive my own car. The hassles and delays that you will deal with at the border will be frustrating and every time I deal with Banjercito at the border it is slow and I think they really enjoy making someone's experience with them miserable. You take your mom's van and I can just about guarantee they will refuse to issue a permit because they will want to see the title. Since the bank has the title that isnt going to happen. You will show them the registration and they will show you no emotion and tell you sorry, please come back with the right documents. You may get lucky and get someone who is sympathetic or is too lazy to care, but I have yet to find one like this. Being held up at the border for 8 hours to get the right documents was very tough for me to swallow, but I learned my lesson, twice.
As for getting plates and nationalizing your car, just go to the numerous businesses that do this and let them deal with the hassles and time. They know someone in the office and can get your vehicle documents handled much faster. If you desire to stay at the border for a day or two or more, then go for it. 
Always remember these two things; The Aduana at the border has one speed, slow. Second, they dont care what your situation is, they do things a certain way and any little hiccup in the routine will always go back to you to get fixed before they go any further.
My suggestion is to go online and get your permit for your car there. The only thing you will need then is the FMM and with a Passport that will be simple to get done. Since your vehicle is already ready to go you can leave right after getting your FMM.


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## RVGRINGO

Importing a vehicle into Mexico, permanently, is very expensive and very difficult; sometimes impossible. Once your move is over, it would be better to drive it north of the border, sell it at CarMax, take the bus, or fly back to Mexico and buy your next vehicle in Mexico.


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## Zepol87

That was there plan, I have a focus that I was gonna sell to my brother, I was just gonna use my moms minivan to get the family to Monterrey. Then drive it back to Dallas then take the bus myself. But it doesn't said that easy


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## Zepol87

Sorry forgot and yes we are planning on buying a van in Mexico. My in laws have found one for us


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## RVGRINGO

If you have your eye on a van in Mexico, the simple solution might be for you to go down by bus or plane, get your visa (which might take a week or two), buy the van and register it with your Mexican address; then, with temporary liability insurance for the USA, drive to Dallas and pick up the rest of the family for the trip back to Monterrey.


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## cscscs007

I completed the online application for a vehicle permit and it was very easy to use and took less than 30 minutes to complete. The only difference I found from the last time I got my permit was they are much stricter on sending in the documents used to get the vehicle permit. This would be your passport or permanent resident card (USA), and the vehicle registration, and the signed promise to return letter. These documents must be sent before the permit expires or you will not be allowed to obtain any more vehicle permits online. Now you can also purchase your vehicle insurance through Banjercito while you are getting your permit. The vehicle deposit is taken from your debit/charge card when you purchase the permit. It took 2 days from the day I went online to when it was at their door, well within the 10 days they said it could take.
I would recommend everyone take advantage of the online purchase if possible. There is no hassle with getting a letter from your bank or lender, you only need to send in a copy of the registration. You also don't have to deal with the run around and delay with the permit, only just getting your FMM issued which takes a little time but much less than the vehicle permit. I email the documents to itv so it is taken care of right away and I dont have to deal with it later.
The first time I went to Mexico I lost my vehicle permit. It took 8 hours to get the first one cancelled and another issued. With a little assistance from the officer at the police station, of course compensating him for his time and my inconveniencing him, I was able to be on my way. A word of advie: Do not leave your permit at home or lose it. I guarantee it will be miserable for you. It was a lesson I will never forget.


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## RVGRINGO

I am puzzled by the statement that you can purchase auto insurance through Banjercito. The deposit is to 'insure' that you will take the car out of Mexico. I doubt that it is liability or comprehensive insurance. Who is the carrier and do you have a printed copy of an insurance policy by an underwriter? Be certain before you cross the border.


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## cscscs007

I didnt buy the insurance since I had gotten it from the company I always go through. I will pay closer attention the next time I get another permit, or someone who goes through Banjercito online for a permit can verify this.
I have found that in Mexico you get exactly what you pay for, nothing else. I would bet it goes for insurance also.
I dont know if it's a new thing they started with the insurance, but I applied for the permit on Tuesday 01/17/12 and it was delivered the 19th in Omaha, NE.


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## circle110

Maybe it's just me but I don't like the idea of paying that deposit with a credit card. If you lose your card or it gets stolen, your money is gone. I have also had two different credit card companies cancel my card number due to some breach of security they had detected - some company (Best Buy I believe) had had their system hacked and they canceled all cards of their customers who had bought something at Best Buy in the last year. Any of those things happen and you can kiss $400 goodbye. 

I paid in cash which they will return in cash (US$) no matter what -- so long as I don't lose my receipt. It seems safer to me, although it does eliminate the simplicity of the online option. However, since we usually cross at Colombia and there is never anyone in line, it's easy and fast enough to get the permit when we cross... maybe 15 minutes. Heck, I'll bet it takes 15 minutes to fill out the form online.

If you cross at a heavy traffic crossing all that would be different.


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## chicois8

circle, the card company transfers all bills and credits to your new card number, it happened to me last year and all came out OK... you exit from a large crossing but I heard on another board while crossing at a small Arizona checkpoint the bank did not have the 400 dollars to return and told them to return the next day........


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## circle110

You had your deposit on a credit card that got canceled and they agreed to return the deposit to a different card number?
The verbage for the deposit states that they will only return the money to the same credit card number. If that is now canceled and non-functional it sounds like a great excuse for them to keep your money.

The point about the small Arizona crossing gives pause to think.


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## chicois8

No the switch is made at the master card company, when they get a credit from the old card they automatically switch it to the new number card...


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## telcoman

A couple of tricks to add that i have learned form other travelers

1) Make high quality laminated copies of your drivers license and hand one of those over if stopped by police and requested for it. If they question if it is a copy, admit it right away, and give them your real one. Holding your license hostage is a common mordida trick and most transitos or local police won't know you have given them a copy. I would probably not try this with a Federale.

2) They have been known to take your plates. If you are from a state or province that uses both front & back, move your front plate to the rear 7 stash the rear one with the sticker somewhere. They will not know the difference.


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## RVGRINGO

Wow! That's really bad advice.
Making a laminted copy of a driver's license, or any other official document, is interpreted as counterfeiting in Mexico and can result in your immediate arrest with a trip to the Ministerio Publico and jail. 
Having only a rear plate in Mexico will always attract attention and cause you to be stopped. Most transitos have no idea that there are places that permit only rear plates. Don't do it!
Jalisco does not permit a transito to take your license, but other states may. In any case, it is to insure that you go to the recaudadora and pay the fine, since they have no other way to enforce the payment for foreign vehicles. Tickets remain against Mexican vehicles and the fines will be collected at the renewal of registration or at the time of sale.
Always refuse to pay 'mordida' and be prepared to record and/or photograph a transito who suggests it in any way, or one who threatens you.
They all know better and being reported to the Ministry of Tourism will cost them their job in most states.


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## conklinwh

I don't think ever a good idea to try to pass anything off as real that isn't. It is prudent to have multiple copies of documents but never try to pass off or imply that they are anything but copies.
Also, our car is registered in a single plate state. We made the decision when we made Mexico our base that better to have some commercial plate upfront rather then empty screw holes that could be misinterpreted. At various stops, authorities have looked at the front 1st and then went to the rear. No problems in 8 years.


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## pappabee

OK I'm a police officer and I stop someone for some reason and they give me a laminated driver's license and I know that in my country that counts as forgery. What kind of attitude do you expect me to have toward that person?

Be honest, have the required paperwork and give it to the authorities when asked. Treat them with respect and you'll usually get the same back. 

There is one problem though, my driver's license is laminated by the State of Texas and that might be a problem.


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## telcoman

I have been told its not a crime to hand over a copy in Mexico, but it is if they ask for the original and you refuse, but then you have a right to see the cops ID. The argument being that you have no assurance he is a real cop. If he is then he is less likely to try & hit you up for mordida if you know who he is. Who knows? Regardless, the plate idea is good. many US Provinces & Sates do not have front plates, so they do not know the difference. I do have an RV Club plate I put on the front when I swap them.


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## butler247

I live in Puerto Vallarta, we were told as long as your FM3 or FM2 are current, you car sticker is also. No need to renew that sticker. I travel to Houston back and forth with out a problem.


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## conklinwh

You are right but expensively so. At every stop, so far, as long as we had a valid date on visa the police excepted that. Only issue was one place where they evidently had never seen the visa card.
As to why expensive, now that Aduana is collecting $200-400US when you get the car permiso, the game has changed. Now if you don't notify Aduana at your visa renewal date, they have the right to collect your deposit. When you leave, you could get nothing and then need repay on entry.


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## RVGRINGO

butler247 said:


> I live in Puerto Vallarta, we were told as long as your FM3 or FM2 are current, you car sticker is also. No need to renew that sticker. I travel to Houston back and forth with out a problem.


If you don't stop at banjercito and have the sticker removed by Aduana, you are violating your obligation. Also, should you lose your car in the USA to accident, theft or even the urge to trade, you won't be able to temporarily import another one. Worse yet; if the original car ever ended up back in Mexico and caused death or damage, you remain responsible. Of course, there are also the fines, taxes and other penalties up to the value of the car. Better to follow the rules; don't drive out of Mexico with that sticker and no receipt.
As for the new deposits; they are forfeit the day after your FMM expires or 15 days after a visa renewal.


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## telcoman

I might add carry that receipt with you the next time you enter. Just in case.


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## butler247

*Aduana deposit*



conklinwh said:


> You are right but expensively so. At every stop, so far, as long as we had a valid date on visa the police excepted that. Only issue was one place where they evidently had never seen the visa card.
> As to why expensive, now that Aduana is collecting $200-400US when you get the car permiso, the game has changed. Now if you don't notify Aduana at your visa renewal date, they have the right to collect your deposit. When you leave, you could get nothing and then need repay on entry.



I never had to put up a deposit when I purchased my sticker online with my debit card in 2010.
There were no additional deposit, or hold on it.


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## circle110

butler247 said:


> I never had to put up a deposit when I purchased my sticker online with my debit card in 2010.
> There were no additional deposit, or hold on it.


The deposit is something that started in 2011. Previously you didn't have to leave one.


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## JoParsons

*What about visa versa?*

What about going the other way . . . buying a vehicle in Mexico and bring it back to the US?:juggle:


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## dstan

As for the new deposits; they are forfeit the day after your FMM expires or 15 days after a visa renewal.[/QUOTE]

I have been following this thread and am still confused about what happens to the deposit when I change my FMM to an FM3 within the 180 day tourist visa timeframe. One poster wrote about sending a letter to Aduna in Mexico City, but here you say that I will forfiet my deposit 15 days after my renewal (or change, I assume)
Is there no way I can avoid loosing my deposit when I change my immigration status from FMM to FM3?
thanks


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## Ken Wood

The 15 day window is the amount of time you have to notify Aduana after the change in your immigration status. If you miss this window, your deposit might be lost. We just went through this at the office in Qto, and it was absolutely painless.


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## circle110

Since I will be changing my FMM to a visa and will need to notify Aduana, it's great to know that there is an office there in Queretaro. There may be one closer but Qto. is less than two hours away and it sounds like a good excuse for a mini road trip - spend a night and enjoy the city.


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## Ken Wood

circle110 said:


> Since I will be changing my FMM to a visa and will need to notify Aduana, it's great to know that there is an office there in Queretaro. There may be one closer but Qto. is less than two hours away and it sounds like a good excuse for a mini road trip - spend a night and enjoy the city.


I'll put together a short list of the documentation they asked for, and will include directions; it is very easy to find the office. I'll also add a caveat that this is not unlike many other government offices in that the documentation you need might be determined by who you speak to when you arrive. It is good that you can do an overnighter because you might find yourself chasing down more copies than you thought you needed.


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## butler247

*fm3 to fm2*



Ken Wood said:


> The 15 day window is the amount of time you have to notify Aduana after the change in your immigration status. If you miss this window, your deposit might be lost. We just went through this at the office in Qto, and it was absolutely painless.


if you change from and FM3 to and FM2 do you have to notify them also?


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## Ken Wood

butler247 said:


> if you change from and FM3 to and FM2 do you have to notify them also?


I cannot speak accurately to this as I have never went through the process, but, I believe they like to be informed of any change in status.


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## Ken Wood

circle110 said:


> Since I will be changing my FMM to a visa and will need to notify Aduana, it's great to know that there is an office there in Queretaro. There may be one closer but Qto. is less than two hours away and it sounds like a good excuse for a mini road trip - spend a night and enjoy the city.


From Federal 57 (5 de Febrero) take Campo Militar west. * Campo Militar will become Hacienda San Juan, which will become Hacienda Tequisquiapan when you reach Aduana. *The road has a few Y's and turns, but the main road is obvious whenever there is a question. *When you reach the immediate area, it will be obvious because of all the truck traffic. *There is a public (free) parking lot on the left about 100 meters short of the security gate. * If you have access to Google Maps, it is quite clear. Aduana is located on the corner where San Juan becomes Tequisquipan.

The paperwork they asked of us was copies of everything related to the car and the original permit, including title, registration, Aduana permit, copy of immigration *status, and copy of passport, but, again, this might change daily. Like most offices I have visited in QTO, the personnel I dealt with were all very courteous and helpful.

They didn't inquire about our current location, but bear in mind that you live in a different state. *It shouldn't matter, but I don't think I would volunteer that information unless asked for it. *


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## RVGRINGO

This map will locate cities where Aduana has offices: Aduana México


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## circle110

RVGRINGO said:


> This map will locate cities where Aduana has offices: Aduana México


Thanks, Rvgringo! 

Too bad their javascript programming is broken and you can't see where they are located beyond a basic city name. 

I saw that there is one in Guanajuato and did a search and see it's right by the airport. That's so close to me that it is probably where I'll go despite the attractiveness of a Queretaro trip.

But thank you very much to Ken Wood! Even if I don't go to Queretaro, I'll bet that information will be very useful to someone.


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## Ken Wood

circle110 said:


> Thanks, Rvgringo!
> 
> Too bad their javascript programming is broken and you can't see where they are located beyond a basic city name.
> 
> I saw that there is one in Guanajuato and did a search and see it's right by the airport. That's so close to me that it is probably where I'll go despite the attractiveness of a Queretaro trip.
> 
> But thank you very much to Ken Wood! Even if I don't go to Queretaro, I'll bet that information will be very useful to someone.


You are quite welcome, and, as I mentiond in the note, there is always a possibility that there is benefit to working within your state of residence.


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## dstan

RVGRINGO said:


> This map will locate cities where Aduana has offices: Aduana México


thanks for the map...very helpful. Does anyone know if you can make the change in writing, or do you have to make a personal visit..?


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## dstan

RVGRINGO said:


> This map will locate cities where Aduana has offices: Aduana México


thanks for the map...very helpful. Does anyone know if you can make the change in writing, or do you have to make a personal visit..?


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## mm2634

If your in Mexico for 6 months and want to stay longer who really cares about the $200 or $300 dollars if there is no issue leaving at any time.... I was in Playa from most of 2008-2009 and Im planning on driving back in a month or so.... Has that much changed in just the past 2 yrs ?


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## telcoman

Here are a couple of cases I am aware of that should make you cringe.


#1 

On another forum there is a guy in PV who for some reason was unaware you need a vehicle permit. He is in big trouble either way if he gets caught. I suppose his best bet is to try to get back into the Sonora free zone without getting stopped. Stay on the Cuota.

#2

A guy in this RV park has had the engine seize up in his truck (2002 diesel). He has decided the best bet is to go to Arizona & bring a new truck down which he will have to obviously permit in his wife's name. One problem, he is not a resident of Arizona, he is Canadian, all they will have is a bill of sale & 30 day state permit. Also his 5th wheel is attached to the old truck permit. That means he has to have the old truck towed to the border ($3000) at the same time. If it had been me, I would have had a replacement engine crated to GM in Guadalajara. May have cost him 12-15k when all was said & done, but he probably could have sold the truck for that with a new engine back in Canada, & broken even, esp taking the 3K towing cost into account. His insurance will tow 300 miles, which would have got the old truck to Guadalajara from Melaque where it is.

Speaking for myself, I have come across a few people with Truck campers who have managed to get a 10 year permit. I think I will attempt this on line next year so I can leave the truck & camper in Mexico over Christmas while I fly home. If it works, I will remove the jacks & put them in my trailer, so the truck & camper is, in effect, a solid unit if anyone questions it.


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## AlanMexicali

*No paperwork*



telcoman said:


> Here are a couple of cases I am aware of that should make you cringe.
> 
> 
> #1
> 
> On another forum there is a guy in PV who for some reason was unaware you need a vehicle permit. He is in big trouble either way if he gets caught. I suppose his best bet is to try to get back into the Sonora free zone without getting stopped. Stay on the Cuota.


I heard from my friend from Culiacan that her ex husband, a Mexican National, who imports pickups he buys from auctions in San Diego to Moreila that in 2006 he took a newer pickup with his name on the pink slip to Culiacan before importing it and got caught there with no paperwork. They seized it on a Fri. night. He got it released the next Thurs. with paperwork that allowed him to drive it back to TJ where he lives at a cost of $15,000 pesos.


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## kazslo

telcoman said:


> #1
> 
> On another forum there is a guy in PV who for some reason was unaware you need a vehicle permit. He is in big trouble either way if he gets caught. I suppose his best bet is to try to get back into the Sonora free zone without getting stopped. Stay on the Cuota.


Maybe this program helps, not sure if it applies to those who have never had a temp permit though. It gives a person cost free authorization for 3-5 days to get to the border.

Vehculos - Importación temporal de vehículos. Retorno seguro


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## starzman

Please help clarify a point for me regarding leaving Mexico with my vehicle. My 180 day visa and 180 day temporary vehicle import permit expires on April 27, 2012. I will be leaving that day and entering Belize. Do I have to notify Aduana that I am leaving then at least 15 days in advance? And how do I notify them so I can get my $400 returned to me?

Thank you in advance for your help (from a newbie to this forum)!


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## sparks

You are notifying them when they remove your sticker at the border


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## chicois8

starzman said:


> Please help clarify a point for me regarding leaving Mexico with my vehicle. My 180 day visa and 180 day temporary vehicle import permit expires on April 27, 2012. I will be leaving that day and entering Belize. Do I have to notify Aduana that I am leaving then at least 15 days in advance? And how do I notify them so I can get my $400 returned to me?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help (from a newbie to this forum)!


As sparks says plus they take a photo of your VIN# and give you a receipt of the transaction and credit card credit if used...

Please sent a report how things went...........


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## sparks

You might also leave a day or two early incase the computer burps


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## chicois8

By the way I crossed on a Thursday and my $400.00 credit was in my account on Monday morning...

I know nothing about burping computers ....LOL


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## RVGRINGO

mm2634 said:


> If your in Mexico for 6 months and want to stay longer who really cares about the $200 or $300 dollars if there is no issue leaving at any time.... I was in Playa from most of 2008-2009 and Im planning on driving back in a month or so.... Has that much changed in just the past 2 yrs ?


You should care. A vehicle is in Mexico legally when the owner/driver maintains a valid visa. If the visa is not maintained, or an FMM tourist permit expires on day #181, the deposit is forfeit and will not be returned. In such cases where a visa is not maintained, the vehicle is now in the country illegally and is subject to confiscation.


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## chicois8

Remember a TIP (Temp. Import of Vehicle) is not needed for the states of Baja California, Baja California Sur or the Sonora Hassle Free Zone........


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## sparks

chicois8 said:


> By the way I crossed on a Thursday and my $400.00 credit was in my account on Monday morning...
> 
> I know nothing about burping computers ....LOL


Besides the computer ... this is a leap year so count the extra day. I forget if they give you an exit date or just write 180 days


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## PieGrande

I know there is an aduana office in Puebla, as shown on the map, since it has an international airport. But, I thought someone said the renewal office may not be the same place. When I go to the immigration office in Puebla, i will ask and see if they can tell me where to renew the import papers. If I must, we will take a trip back to the border and turn it in then renew it when we come back.


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## conklinwh

My experience, at least in San Miguel, is that immigration is very familiar with which Aduana offices are set up for the car import paperwork so expect that person in Puebla will know.


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## PieGrande

I certainly hope so.


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## grotton

Thanks for the information. I am unclear on one point. We are looking to drive our 2010 Subaru Outback into Mexico. My partner is a Mexican National, I am American. I will apply for a F3 Visa (what ever long term visa status is finally settled on). We want to pay our deposit at the border and then keep the car in Mexico indefinitely. How is this done. Does it need to be licensed in whatever state we settle in? Does it keep a Washington state registration and we pay a fee to keep it legally in country past the six months permitted. Can this be legally done. We certainly don't want to drive across Mexico with an improperly registered car. 
Thanks!


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## circle110

Who's name is the vehicle in?

If it is in your name, you will need to get a temporary importation permit at the border. Then, once you have your FM3, you will need to go to Aduana (Customs) and have your temporary permit extended to match the duration of your visa (one year). After that, each year you will renew your visa for another year and you will go back to Aduana and extend the temporary permit for another year as well. As long as your visa stays current and you keep extending your temporary import permit to match, you will be legally fine.

If you want to import the car permanently it is a whole different process and is rarely worth the expense. It is almost always cheaper to sell it in the US and buy a Mexican vehicle... or just keep extending the temp import permit to stay in sync with your visa as described above.


----------



## conklinwh

It is important in whose name the vehicle is titled. A Mexican national has a whole different process, if allowed at all.
Assuming that titled in your name, you can apply for the temporary import ahead of time or at the border when you get your FMM. For a 2010 car, the deposit on your credit card will be $400USD in addition to the cost of the permit. Both your FMM and car permit will be for 180 days. As stated, you should go for an FM3 after arriving, and assuming that you qualify financially. After getting your FM3, you can go to an authorized Aduana office or mail the paperwork to Mexico City to get your car permit extended to match your visa, one year. You only will have two weeks after receiving your visa to get the permit extended or your deposit is forfeit.
You do not have the option to convert a 2010 car as needs be 10 years old. Your options are basically to keep it in sync with your visa or take it back to the US and sell.


----------



## grotton

*Bring Vehicle South*



circle110 said:


> Who's name is the vehicle in?
> 
> If it is in your name, you will need to get a temporary importation permit at the border. Then, once you have your FM3, you will need to go to Aduana (Customs) and have your temporary permit extended to match the duration of your visa (one year). After that, each year you will renew your visa for another year and you will go back to Aduana and extend the temporary permit for another year as well. As long as your visa stays current and you keep extending your temporary import permit to match, you will be legally fine.
> 
> If you want to import the car permanently it is a whole different process and is rarely worth the expense. It is almost always cheaper to sell it in the US and buy a Mexican vehicle... or just keep extending the temp import permit to stay in sync with your visa as described above.


Fantastic. Thanks for the information. Exactly what we needed to know. The vehicle is incidentally in my name though if for any reason it benefited us we could put it in my partners names.


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## grotton

conklinwh said:


> It is important in whose name the vehicle is titled. A Mexican national has a whole different process, if allowed at all.
> Assuming that titled in your name, you can apply for the temporary import ahead of time or at the border when you get your FMM. For a 2010 car, the deposit on your credit card will be $400USD in addition to the cost of the permit. Both your FMM and car permit will be for 180 days. As stated, you should go for an FM3 after arriving, and assuming that you qualify financially. After getting your FM3, you can go to an authorized Aduana office or mail the paperwork to Mexico City to get your car permit extended to match your visa, one year. You only will have two weeks after receiving your visa to get the permit extended or your deposit is forfeit.
> You do not have the option to convert a 2010 car as needs be 10 years old. Your options are basically to keep it in sync with your visa or take it back to the US and sell.


Thanks for the extra details. The vehicle is in my name so we will leave it that way. All seems pretty straight forward.


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## conklinwh

I should have put a small disclaimer that new policies were passed by the legislature last June and the bureaucracy was to publish implementation details by November and still not done and probably won't be for an extended period of time with the elections and probability that a new party will take power. You had said that not sure if apply for FM3 or other. Not sure of your options but there are some versions of FM2's that preclude having US licensed vehicle.


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## telcoman

BTW, I paid my vehicle deposit in cash at Lukeville/Sonoyta and received the same back when I returned OK.


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## conklinwh

I never pay deposits in cash if credit an option. I want to be able to fight with the credit card company as any bureaucracy impossible.


----------



## terrybahena

grotton said:


> Fantastic. Thanks for the information. Exactly what we needed to know. The vehicle is incidentally in my name though if for any reason it benefited us we could put it in my partners names.


If you wanted to nationalize it, it would have to be in your partners name (you said your partner is a Mexican National right?) My husband is a Mexican National & the car is in both our names. We had to contact the border where we plan to cross and send a copy of the pink slip plus his passport. We have to call them 2 weeks before we arrive. It's going to cost us about $800 to nationalize our truck and the cargo trailer we're bringing. They have been really helpful, and that was totally the border we're crossing at; when we tried to contact another border spot we basically got nowhere....
HOWEVER- our truck is more than 10 years old. To bring a 2010 is either not allowed at all or you will pay a huge amount.


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## telcoman

One more note to my original post

You will receive a sheet of paper with your vehicle sticker, which you must affix to the windshield. You will also receive a receipt for your vehicle deposit. It is important you keep both these (the form less the sticker plus the receipt). You will need both when you exit Mexico.


----------



## docmiller

I entered Mexico in October last year, paid for vehicle permit by Visa, and permit was registered to expire on the date of my FM3. Border personnel indicated that I must provide Aduana proof of renewal within 15 days or doing so or forfeit the deposit. This I did, via courier with all requisite information, and within the 15 days. Received notice of delivery to Aduana in Mexico City which included a signature of receipt. So, I did everything right. Right? When I left Mexico, sticker was removed, and I obtained the receipt. That was exactly one month ago, and to date, no monies have been refunded. I will wait for one more week, and then send ALL information to Mexico City with a letter requesting the promised refund. Not much else I can do. Next year I will pay cash when going down, and at least that way I should get my money back immediately upon going out. However, I have heard that sometimes they are out of cash, and require you to return the following day to get it. Any suggestions???


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## telcoman

Pay cash, I had no trouble even at the small Lukeville crossing.


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## chicois8

Looks pretty expensive, my full coverage 365 day policy costs about what they offer for 180 day basic..


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## joebetoblame

chicois8 said:


> Looks pretty expensive, my full coverage 365 day policy costs about what they offer for 180 day basic..


Chico Which insurance do you get? I haven't purchased yet cause i was looking around for a better deal...


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## chicois8

I have Costco ...


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## telcoman

I can no longer edit my original post but I have been informed the website for permits on line has changed to 

https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registroVehiculos/capturaOpcionl.do


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## atomant

RVGRINGO said:


> I don't know of anyone who has successfully taken a piece of windshield with the sticker to the border as proof that the vehicle has been totally destroyed. You are required to take the vehicle out of Mexico. Period. You'll even have to pay up if it is stolen.
> Getting around these rules is infrequently possible and usually takes deep pockets and years of time. So, if you 'lose' your vehicle in Mexico, don't plan on ever bringing in another one in the same name. Married folks simply bring the next vehicle registered to the other spouse. Single folks are SOL.


 Hey RV, my car was burnt in Jan 2007 and I am still fighting with customs to take it off the books. I tried taking the sticker back to the border and telling different lies and they will not remove it from the books. They said I was screwed for life until that car goes back to the US.
Here's my question..........if I get a new passport with a new number can I get another vehicle into Mexico? I live here in Leon with FM3 so I really need to have a vehicle.
Or if I put it in my wife's name (she is mexicana) will she have to be in the vehicle with me when I return or can I just have copies of all our/her paper with me? Thank you, Sam


----------



## circle110

atomant said:


> Hey RV, my car was burnt in Jan 2007 and I am still fighting with customs to take it off the books. I tried taking the sticker back to the border and telling different lies and they will not remove it from the books. They said I was screwed for life until that car goes back to the US.
> Here's my question..........if I get a new passport with a new number can I get another vehicle into Mexico? I live here in Leon with FM3 so I really need to have a vehicle.
> Or if I put it in my wife's name (she is mexicana) will she have to be in the vehicle with me when I return or can I just have copies of all our/her paper with me? Thank you, Sam


If you live in Leon, why don't you just buy a Mexican car? 
Your restriction only applies to the importada temporal of a US vehicle.


----------



## chicois8

atomant said:


> Hey RV, my car was burnt in Jan 2007 and I am still fighting with customs to take it off the books. I tried taking the sticker back to the border and telling different lies and they will not remove it from the books. They said I was screwed for life until that car goes back to the US.
> Here's my question..........if I get a new passport with a new number can I get another vehicle into Mexico? I live here in Leon with FM3 so I really need to have a vehicle.
> Or if I put it in my wife's name (she is mexicana) will she have to be in the vehicle with me when I return or can I just have copies of all our/her paper with me? Thank you, Sam





You are into a thread almost 2 years old, why not start a new one?


----------



## atomant

circle110 said:


> If you live in Leon, why don't you just buy a Mexican car?
> Your restriction only applies to the importada temporal of a US vehicle.


I have one but I'm selling it to buy an american truck and trailer. I'm moving back as soon as I sell this house and when it sells I want to have the truck and trailer here and ready.


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## mickisue1

Again, why not buy Mexican?

You can take a Mexican truck into the US, you know.


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## sag42

Yes you can take a Mexican plated vehicle into the US, but only for one year. It sounds like atomant is making a permante move back to the states. Therefor buying a Mexican vehicle wouldn't work very well for him.


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## cscscs007

I don't know if a different passport number will work or not, but I don't think so. I helped someone get a vehicle permit last week and for American citizens you need to now request permission to get a permit from another site other than Banjercito, get an approval number, and then enter it into Banjercito's website before you get the permit. 
They would probably be able to find out if someone left a vehicle in Mexico or not by doing this.


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## mickisue1

sag42 said:


> Yes you can take a Mexican plated vehicle into the US, but only for one year. It sounds like atomant is making a permante move back to the states. Therefor buying a Mexican vehicle wouldn't work very well for him.


In another thread, he notes that he has a truck in MX already. Why not just drive that to the US for as long as it takes to get to where he's going, then drive it back, sell it and fly back home?

Much less hassle than trying to convince the State Department to issue a new passport because your truck burned up.


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## atomant

Ok,,,,,,,,I'll try to get my point across,,,,,,,,,I'm leaving this country and as most people I need a vehicle to use to move my belongings. As mexico has refused to remove a vehicle from the books that was a total lose to a fire in Jan. 2007, in central mexico, (that's 6 years folks, that I have fought with these people) I can't bring another vehicle here, I need a ****** truck to get my belongings home to the USA. Sooooooooo..........I can't have a mezcan vehicle in the US for more than 1 year (and why would I want to)........I would have to return to mexico if it were in a wreck because they don't have /sell this vehicle in the USA.
Now........I have heard that if I have a new passport with a new number then I can get another US vehicle down here. Because the all the vehicles are tied to your passport number. Is this a possibility???????????
Or I've heard that I can put the vehicle in my wife's name and come across.....BUT.....does she need to be in the vehicle at the border or can I just have copies of our marriage certificate and copies of her ID with me ??????????
Like I've said...I'm not trying to screw anyone I just need a vehicle and the mezcans aren't going to help.....and yes I've tried to turn the sticker in at the border and they say I'm screwed for life until the vehicle crosses back into the US, which will never happen Any ideas ?????


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## cscscs007

You can have the vehicle peremit in your wife's name as long as her name is on the title. Immediate family members are allowed to drive the vehicle. I would carry a copy of your marriage license (with a stamp on it) and you should be OK. She does not need to be in the vehicle at all times. If you get the permit online you don't have to deal with any hassle at the frontera getting it, and since she is a mexican she can get the permit easily.


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## atomant

Correct !!


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## atomant

Thank you !! Do you know what website ?


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## cscscs007

Go to Banjercito and access vehicle permits. It is very easy to use and DHL delivers the permit in 2 - 3 days after you buy it online.


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## telcoman

Yes, you can do that, here is the link:

https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registroVehiculos/capturaOpcionl.do

HOWEVER, THERE IS ONE BIG DANGER IN DOING THIS, especially if you do not live near the Mexican border. Suppose you have to cancel your trip at the last minute. Well I can tell you unless you are willing or able to take both the vehicle and the permit to the Mexican border, canceling it is almost impossible. You CANNOT simply DHL the permit back to Banjercito unused.

I spent 2 months this spring trying to assist someone with this problem. They lived 2000 miles from the border and Banjercito told them that they had to present the vehicle & permit at the border within 6 months, or they would never be allowed to take a vehicle into Mexico again.

After much hassling around I finally found out a procedure. I have it laid out on this webpage. It takes about 6 months, and do not count on getting your deposit back.

Cancelling a Mexico Vehicle Permit


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## taniagr

telcoman said:


> That is a rather sobering thought. I have heard of one person who was successful after destroying a vehicle, but they did have a police report with the VIN number and a hunk of the sticker.


I read that as well that if you have a police report you can be okayed to not have your vehicle when leaving Mexico.


----------



## atomant

taniagr said:


> I read that as well that if you have a police report you can be okayed to not have your vehicle when leaving Mexico.


As I mentioned I have supplied customs with every piece of paper known to man. My FedEx packets are mailed by the pound now. As of Jan. this year I was told that because of my case the rule, regulation and maybe the laws are being or will be changed and therefore NOTHING CAN BE DONE TO HELP ME until the changes take effect. I have fought with theses people for 6 years and now I have been put off again !!!!!!
The last conversation I was told to wait by the mailbox for instructions.......................


----------



## taniagr

atomant said:


> As I mentioned I have supplied customs with every piece of paper known to man. My FedEx packets are mailed by the pound now. As of Jan. this year I was told that because of my case the rule, regulation and maybe the laws are being or will be changed and therefore NOTHING CAN BE DONE TO HELP ME until the changes take effect. I have fought with theses people for 6 years and now I have been put off again !!!!!!
> The last conversation I was told to wait by the mailbox for instructions.......................


That's ridiculous. Maybe one day you'll have a resolution.


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## atomant

taniagr said:


> That's ridiculous. Maybe one day you'll have a resolution.


I seen too many times how things work here in mexico so I'm just going to get the american truck down here and I'm packing up and getting out of dodge !!!! Since Jan. 13 2007 I have been shafted and had things stolen and paid mordida. My resolution is north of the border.


----------



## Isla Verde

atomant said:


> I seen too many times how things work here in mexico so I'm just going to get the american truck down here and I'm packing up and getting out of dodge !!!! Since Jan. 13 2007 I have been shafted and had things stolen and paid mordida. My resolution is north of the border.


Sorry to hear that things haven't worked out for you in Mexico. I hope your life is happier once you cross the border.


----------



## johnmex

Isla Verde said:


> Sorry to hear that things haven't worked out for you in Mexico. I hope your life is happier once you cross the border.


I would expect not though....


----------



## GARYJ65

atomant said:


> Ok,,,,,,,,I'll try to get my point across,,,,,,,,,I'm leaving this country and as most people I need a vehicle to use to move my belongings. As mexico has refused to remove a vehicle from the books that was a total lose to a fire in Jan. 2007, in central mexico, (that's 6 years folks, that I have fought with these people) I can't bring another vehicle here, I need a ****** truck to get my belongings home to the USA. Sooooooooo..........I can't have a mezcan vehicle in the US for more than 1 year (and why would I want to)........I would have to return to mexico if it were in a wreck because they don't have /sell this vehicle in the USA.
> Now........I have heard that if I have a new passport with a new number then I can get another US vehicle down here. Because the all the vehicles are tied to your passport number. Is this a possibility???????????
> Or I've heard that I can put the vehicle in my wife's name and come across.....BUT.....does she need to be in the vehicle at the border or can I just have copies of our marriage certificate and copies of her ID with me ??????????
> Like I've said...I'm not trying to screw anyone I just need a vehicle and the mezcans aren't going to help.....and yes I've tried to turn the sticker in at the border and they say I'm screwed for life until the vehicle crosses back into the US, which will never happen Any ideas ?????


Why do You keep using that Mezcan word???


----------



## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Why do You keep using that Mezcan word???


I see it as his attempt at humor, though I don't find it very funny.


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## mickisue1

That nasty word was from the beginning of the thread. It appears that the poster has (I sincerely hope) figured it out.


----------



## ehw23

I dont think there is any solid evidence YET on this but want to get opinions because I am going to visit the US for a few days to buy stuff at the border.

I have my car here in Mexico and still have my FMM, which both expire in July. 

I dont see any problems with me going across the border to the US side on BUS and coming back a few days later...with my current FMM. Has anyone had any experience with this? I dont see how Mexico will be able to track me really...

Thanks guys


----------



## circle110

The immigration regulations stipulate that you must turn in your FMM when you leave the country and get a new one upon return. That said, I wasn't aware of that the first 4 times I returned to the US so I didn't turn it in. On the 5th time, my wife handed my passport to the INM lady with my not-turned-in FMM in it and she saw it and fined me $1000 pesos. 

Bottom line, you can probably get away with it but it isn't legal.


----------



## RVGRINGO

On an FMM, you may not leave Mexico without your vehicle, which becomes illegally in Mexico the moment you step across the border.


----------



## circle110

Good point, Rvgringo. I failed to take note of the fact that they mentioned having a car.

That would be a deal breaker for me. You might get lucky and nothing will happen, but the risk of having your car confiscated and losing it would be too great for me.


----------



## BryansRose

So, the consequences of _not_ returning your TIP sticker are:

1. You lose your deposit
2. You can't bring another vehicle into Mexico. 

So, if you are a residente permanente, who can't bring a vehicle in anyway, you're out your deposit but otherwise no legal problems?


----------



## ehw23

Thank you guys for the clarification. DEFINITELY not worth the risk so will not be crossing over without my vehicle with my FMM. I appreciate the input.

THanks again


----------



## telcoman

RVGRINGO said:


> On an FMM, you may not leave Mexico without your vehicle, which becomes illegally in Mexico the moment you step across the border.



Unless its an RV permit which is normally good for 10 years unless you have an ATV or motorcycle attached to it in which case it's only good for 6 months. (I know I have one this year, still says Casa Rodante)

The question is, can you leave the country temp when those are attached? I suspect, technically not, but normally any RV permit allows you to leave the country with the vehicle left behind as long as it is valid.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Here is a new dilemma: 
Suppose that someone lives in Mexico and has had visas which allow keeping a foreign plated vehicle. Now, that person must become Residente Permanente after 4 years as Temporal. It looks like those with Residente Permanente visas may not own or drive a foreign plated vehicle. What happens if they want to live in Mexico and tour in an RV? Must they leave Mexico and cancel their permanent residency status in order to temporarily import the RV? One certainly cannot buy a motorhome in Mexico.
Just another Catch-22 !


----------



## telcoman

I am seeing more & more Mexicans with RV's however.


----------



## RVGRINGO

That is an entirely different situation when it comes to importation. They operate under different rules, especially if they have green cards in the USA.
As it is, we will soon have to take our USA plated vehicle out of Mexico.


----------



## chicois8

So do you think a tourist with an FMM and TIP will be stopped or harassed more because the police just see the foreign plate?


----------



## RVGRINGO

That is a possibility as the number of local foreign plates will definitely decline as resident expats become Residente Permanente and buy Mexican vehicles to replace those that had to be taken out of Mexico and sold in the USA or Canada.
That said; we still do not get stopped with our SD plated vehicle in the Lake Chapala area. However, new folks are definitely targeted by the transitos.


----------



## telcoman

RVGRINGO said:


> That is a possibility as the number of local foreign plates will definitely decline as resident expats become Residente Permanente and buy Mexican vehicles to replace those that had to be taken out of Mexico and sold in the USA or Canada.
> That said; we still do not get stopped with our SD plated vehicle in the Lake Chapala area. However, new folks are definitely targeted by the transitos.


From what I understand if a vehicle is over 10 years old you can legalize it. This I believe has something to do with the North American free trade agreement. It gets more complex if a vehicle is considered commercial, which 1 ton pickups are.


----------



## telcoman

One item I neglected to mention in my border crossing info. i witnessed this in action 2 weeks ago when a fellow in the same RV park had an accident with his tow car. he was fined 600 pesos and the police initially put him at fault. The insurance adjusters later determined he was not. Fortunately he had taken photos.

*Important:* It is an offense to move a vehicle that has been in an accident until the police arrive, even if you are blocking traffic. You will be fined and it could affect who is determined at fault.


----------



## RVGRINGO

telcoman said:


> From what I understand if a vehicle is over 10 years old you can legalize it. This I believe has something to do with the North American free trade agreement. It gets more complex if a vehicle is considered commercial, which 1 ton pickups are.


Only those vehicles made in NAFTA countries may be imported permanently. The age requirement is a moving target and the legality of the importation is often in question. frankly, it is seldom worth the cost, which often exceeds $2000 USD.
Japanese and European manufactured cars need not apply. That covers our NIssan Pathfinder, which we love but will have to remove when we change to Residente Permanente.
It also seems that we would not be able to bring in an RV from the USA in the future.


----------



## BryansRose

RVGRINGO said:


> It also seems that we would not be able to bring in an RV from the USA in the future.


That's terrible.


----------



## telcoman

RVGRINGO said:


> Only those vehicles made in NAFTA countries may be imported permanently. The age requirement is a moving target and the legality of the importation is often in question. frankly, it is seldom worth the cost, which often exceeds $2000 USD.
> Japanese and European manufactured cars need not apply. That covers our NIssan Pathfinder, which we love but will have to remove when we change to Residente Permanente.
> It also seems that we would not be able to bring in an RV from the USA in the future.


That may be debatable, Sal & barb Contreras who run Hacienda Contreras RV park near Valle de Juarez are permanent residents and they appear to have a US purchased 5th wheel. I also saw 2 Mexican nationals in there over Semana Santa with Us purchased truck campers. mind you TC's have always been a grey area. Class A's or C's may be another matter.


----------



## RVGRINGO

I think Telcoman is missing the difference between someone who lives here permanently and someone who has been issued the new Residente Permanente visa card, which must happen after 4 years on a lesser visa, unless the person goes out of Mexico and applies at a consulate in the home country for Residente Temporal. In that latter case, one may stay in Mexico, come and go and keep a foreign plated vehicle. Otherwise, they would be restricted to a 180 day stay on an FMM.
My concerns are only for Residente Permanente status; no others.


----------



## Bigmoe

Hi when u say u have to have permission to bring a leased vehicle into kexico, does that include baja???? Thanks....


----------



## Bigmoe

Bigmoe said:


> Hi when u say u have to have permission to bring a leased vehicle into kexico, does that include baja???? Thanks....


I want to drive from tijuana to cabo san lucas with my leased mercedes benz.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Ask he owner of the vehicle you have leased.


----------



## chicois8

Bigmoe said:


> I want to drive from tijuana to cabo san lucas with my leased mercedes benz.



since there is no TIP or Temporary Import Permit needed for Baja it does not matter if it is leased but you may be asked for a letter of permission from the owner when buying the Mexican insurance...


----------



## richardlvance

Mexicodrifter said:


> The biggest problem seems to be for those of us who have an FM2, FM3 and are entering the republic. The Money taken will never be returned because the permit is for 6 months whic most of us would exceed. If, after living in Mexico for say 2 fyears one wiches to travel to the states the cash would not be returned because the sticker would be expired.
> I talked at length witht eh Banercito aobut this and they assured me that that would be the case. The Aduana was of no help at all.
> But, there may be a place to write to in each state that will extend the sticker time. The Aduana will know this address.
> Even though a person of FM2 or FM3 status has the right to own and operate a vihicle in Mexico without further paperwork than a stick and his current immigrationd card, the new law does not yet adress the problem.


In the old days if you came in on a visitor visa then converted to FM2/3 the car sticker was good as long as your visa, despite the sticker having an expiration date. But you had about 13 days to go to an ADUANA office to report your change of status and the situation with the vehicle. They would give you an official paper to show the cops and customs people. 

Now with the new system you cannot come in on a visitor visa and then apply for a residency visa, you must go back to your home country for the residency request. But if you were on the ball you could go to INM in your state with your expiring FM2/3 and apply for conversion to Temporary or Permanent residency. With the temporary residency you will still have the same privileges with the car, being that the sticker is good as long as your new visa. A permanent resident is considered a Mexican and cannot drive a foreign plated car in Mexico.

One legal tweak that is lost in many places and officials is that if you have a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico, legally and taxes paid, your spouse, father, and child can also drive the car even if they are Mexican, and other Mexicans may drive it if you are in the car with them. This can get dangerous as many police do not understand this and may confiscate the car if the Mexican is driving and your insurance does not call that theft, you are SOL.

Always carry a copy of Article 106, Temporary Importation of Vehicles, in your car, the Spanish version, to show the police that are confused. My wife has a kit showing that and out marriage certificate, a copy of my passport, and a copy of her birth certificate along with all the Mexican insurance papers. The Article 106 law has been used several times to explain to new Federales from the south that are not familiar with the law.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Corrections to the post above:
The FM2 and FM3 no longer exist. Inmigrado status holders with the old FM2 booklet are now Residente Permanente, even if they have not gone to INM for the new card.
A Residente Permanente is NOT considered a Mexican; he is a foreigner with a permanent residence visa.


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## klutzy

Thanks to all for this discussion. We were thinking of driving down for our winter visit so we could explore other areas while there, but it sounds like flying will be a much better choice! It is strange that a country which relies heavily on tourists would make things so hard for them.


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## sparks

Don't think much of this conversation had to do with driving down for the winter on a tourist visa. Lots of people still do it


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## RVGRINGO

Tourists are not to concern themselves with these new rules and regulations involving visa holders.
Tourists come in on an FMM tourist permit, not a visa. They may temporarily import their vehicle without concern for its age or origin. It must leave when they do and their deposit will be returned.
No hay problema.


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## amberbergara

My husband is a Mexican citizen and is taking over a vehicle, paid off, in his name. Will he need all the same info and still have to pa the deposit? The vehicle was bought in the US


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## sparks

Unless the vehicle is imported permanently it needs a TIP (Temp Import Permit) no matter who is driving


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## Tex2Guat

Please update the Banjercito Site for online TIP purchase. Thanks.


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## telcoman

It is correct on the original webpage (Mexico RV Forums). I do not have the ability to edit the original post. The correct link is https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registroVehiculos/capturaOpcionl.do


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## Tex2Guat

Thank you VERY much for the quick response. Sorry, didn't see the other page. I know it is difficult to keep all the pages updated all the time.
Thanks for a well moderated site. So sick of the bickering and name calling elsewhere. Keep it up!
God bless


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## telcoman

Tex2Guat said:


> Thank you VERY much for the quick response. Sorry, didn't see the other page. I know it is difficult to keep all the pages updated all the time.
> Thanks for a well moderated site. So sick of the bickering and name calling elsewhere. Keep it up!
> God bless


I actually have page with step by step procedure with pictures. However it is on a ocmmercial Rv caravan site I maintain so I probably cannot link it here. If anyone wantss he link, PM me.


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## Tex2Guat

I'm too new to PM.
I am planning a trip from Guat to Houston sometime this year.
Do you have specific recommendations for crossings/routes for that trip?
I'm currently planning the Guat crossing at El Carmen, and the US crossing at the Veterans Intnl Bridge. Is there a better suggestion?


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## Tex2Guat

Also, I seem to remember a note about cost for tourist visas for transit. Is that still in effect?
I know I'll have the cost of fumigation and the TIP deposit (and the necessary copies), but what other costs should I expect at the crossings?


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## telcoman

You need a visa for about $35, vehicle TIP is now $59, plus a $200 to $400 deposit unless its an RV


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## Tex2Guat

Is the $35 per person and is it required even if just transiting Mexico? 
And will we have to pay again when we return (80 days later)?


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## chicois8

I drive and cross at Nogales AZ and purchase the FMM and TIP there, my fees were:

The tourist permit ( not tourist visa) is 322 pesos or $21 USD at 15x$1USD...
The TIP was $44USD+$7USD I.V.A. =$51.00USD...plus $400 deposit....

Tex, how long will you be driving in Mexico?


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## Tex2Guat

Only 3 days max if no problems. Considering driving straight through night since have 3 drivers, which should take less than 30 hours I'm told.


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## Tex2Guat

Also, there will be 8 of us. Do all pay the $21 or $35 each?


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## coondawg

Tex2Guat said:


> Is the $35 per person and is it required even if just transiting Mexico?
> And will we have to pay again when we return (80 days later)?


Yes and Yes and No!
Do not turn them in when you leave Mexico, and they will be good when you reenter in less than 180 days. Then, when you leave Mexico the last time, turn them in and get your TIP deposit back. Driving at night in Mexico is Very dangerous, IMHO. Good luck.


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## Tex2Guat

Coondawg,
I would like to be able to only get the TIP the one time going up from Guat, but I read on another post that it was not allowed to keep the TIP if we leave Mex into Texas on the Tourist Permit. Any knowledge of that for sure? Have you done so yourself?
I read that if they saw the exit stamp from Mex (from previous exit to Texas from Mex) that they would not refund the TIP. 
I really want to do it correctly so I don't have any problems.


----------



## coondawg

Tex2Guat said:


> Coondawg,
> I would like to be able to only get the TIP the one time going up from Guat, but I read on another post that it was not allowed to keep the TIP if we leave Mex into Texas on the Tourist Permit. Any knowledge of that for sure? Have you done so yourself?
> I read that if they saw the exit stamp from Mex (from previous exit to Texas from Mex) that they would not refund the TIP.
> I really want to do it correctly so I don't have any problems.


I can tell you what I have done. I never get anything stamped until I turn my FMM in when I give up my FMM when I am finished with it.
I have been using a tourist permit since 1999, every 6 months, more or less. I pass normally through Laredo, but sometimes thru Pharr, where I get the original FMM and TIP.
If I need to return to Texas for a short time and come back and then return to Texas for my last trip when my 180 days expires, that is what I do. I do not stop at the crossing anywhere, and so I turn in nothing. Several years ago I asked when I got my FMM if the permit was valid for multiple entries and exits in the 180 day period and was informed that it was (the TIP is valid as long as the FMM is valid). So that is what I base my use on. Never a problem, nor contested. I have passed maybe 6 times in 180 days when we were bringing building supplies for our house construction. If someone suggests that you can not do this, I would challenge them to show you EXACTLY where the Law says you cannot do it. Good luck.


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## Tex2Guat

HOT DANG!!
Seems if I read correctly, that I only need to purchase the TIP and the Tourist Permits ONCE for the trip on the way into Mex from Guat, not again upon return thru Mex 79 days later.

And do I need to stop at the Mex / Tex border to get my passport stamped out of Mex as I go into Texas, or do I just get stamped into U.S. at the U.S. border?

Not sure and I want to do it the easiest right way. Thanks for patience helping me understand.


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## chicois8

The TIP is valid as long as your FMM is valid, the FMM is supposed to be surrendered when you exit Mexico. So if you did not surrender your FMM and TIP when exiting Mexico to reuse 80 days later it would be against the rules and regulations clearly printed on the reverse of the FMM...

Check with the Mexican Consulate in Guatemala, I believe there is a 30 day FMM for transit through Mexico and there may be no fee...


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## coondawg

Tex2Guat said:


> HOT DANG!!
> Seems if I read correctly, that I only need to purchase the TIP and the Tourist Permits ONCE for the trip on the way into Mex from Guat, not again upon return thru Mex 79 days later.
> 
> And do I need to stop at the Mex / Tex border to get my passport stamped out of Mex as I go into Texas, or do I just get stamped into U.S. at the U.S. border?
> 
> Not sure and I want to do it the easiest right way. Thanks for patience helping me understand.


As I said, you only need to turn in your FMM when you are exiting Mexico for the last time and are not coming back during the 180 days. However, to get this 180 days, you must apply for a tourist permit, not a permit just to drive across Mexico. If you stop at the border on the Mexican side and have your passport stamped, you must turn in your FMM and TIP , as you are telling them that you are leaving Mexico for the final time. I only do this stop on my Final time out.


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## coondawg

The rules say turn in when you leave Mexico. That was interpreted by the officials to me to mean when you leave for the final time.


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## ojosazules11

coondawg said:


> I can tell you what I have done. I never get anything stamped until I turn my FMM in when I give up my FMM when I am finished with it.
> I have been using a tourist permit since 1999, every 6 months, more or less. I pass normally through Laredo, but sometimes thru Pharr, where I get the original FMM and TIP.
> If I need to return to Texas for a short time and come back and then return to Texas for my last trip when my 180 days expires, that is what I do. I do not stop at the crossing anywhere, and so I turn in nothing. Several years ago I asked when I got my FMM if the permit was valid for multiple entries and exits in the 180 day period and was informed that it was (the TIP is valid as long as the FMM is valid). So that is what I base my use on. Never a problem, nor contested. I have passed maybe 6 times in 180 days when we were bringing building supplies for our house construction. If someone suggests that you can not do this, I would challenge them to show you EXACTLY where the Law says you cannot do it. Good luck.


There are so many differing opinions on these forums about what the new Immigration Law states that I decided to read it myself. Regarding the 180 day Visitor Permit here is what it says in Chapter II, Article 52.I:

I._ VISITANTE SIN PERMISO PARA REALIZAR ACTIVIDADES REMUNERADAS. Autoriza al extranjero para transitar o permanecer en territorio nacional por un tiempo ininterrumpido no mayor a ciento ochenta días, contados a partir de la fecha de entrada. _

I. VISITOR WITHOUT PERMISSION FOR PAID ACTIVITIES. Authorizes the foreigner to travel through (in transit) or remain in national territory for no more than one hundred and eighty days uninterrupted time, starting from the date of entry.

I guess the interpretation hinges on how one defines "uninterrupted time". I would interpret it as uninterrupted time in Mexican territory, which would end once a person crosses into the U.S.

This contrasts with the following phrase under the "Residencia Temporal" permit:

_ "y con derecho a entrar y salir del territorio nacional cuantas veces lo deseen."_

"with the right to enter and leave the country as often as they like"


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## Tex2Guat

W E L L ....
Now not so keen on trying to do the whole trip on one permit. Not sure but seems the 'uninterrupted' may be applied to mean 'not leave Mex'. 
So now I guess the question is whether every member of my family has to pay for an FMM (I guess that's the Tourist Permit?) or just me as father, and
is there a separate free 'transit only' permit available just for the purpose of driving across the country.


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## chicois8

All I know is that it states on the back of the FMM under the word IMPORTANT in red ink is:

During your stay in Mexico, you must retain this 
immigration form and surrender it upon leaving the
country.

I do not see anything about leaving the country the "final" time" ...This is an official Government document and not the opinion of some immigration officer who been on the job since before the FMM came into use and remembers only the old FM-T rules ....

Tex, there are rules on who can drive the vehicle also on the BANJERCITO site...are all your drivers relatives? 
And I would not drive at night even on the toll roads.......


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## Tex2Guat

Wife and adult sons.

If we don't drive at night, it makes it very difficult to get across with only one night stay and still find the office open to get the refund for the TIP. 

The only option may be to get the TIP online, then start across Mex VERY early in the morning (maybe even just before daybreak) and hope to find a crossing at the Tex Matamoros border that will be open LATE to turn in the TIP and get the refund.

Any suggestions on that?


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## AlanMexicali

Google Translation:

"Automobiles;

With temporary import permit issued by Banjercito [TIP]

Who can perform the procedure

Foreigners and permanent residents Mexicans abroad, as well as those that accredit work abroad for a year or more.

Requirements

1.Concerning Mexicans living abroad, as well as proving work abroad for a year or more, must submit to that end, the document issued by the immigration authorities of the foreign country accrediting them as permanent or temporary residents abroad, or the express permission of the competent authority of that country that gives them the quality of service in accordance with international agreements to which Mexico is a party.


2.Concerning foreigners condition of stay of visitors [FMM], temporary resident and temporary resident student may temporarily import a single vehicle, the present for such effects your current passport or passport (passport card) and the official document issued by the immigration authorities .


3. The applicant must prove ownership or possession of the vehicle to be imported temporarily for such purposes must present any of the following documents in original and copy:

◾Títle of owner or current registration plates accrediting them as owners of the vehicle, issued by the competent authority of the foreign country.
◾Contrato lease on behalf of the importer, the lessor's letter authorizing the temporary vehicle import.
◾Contract of credit on behalf of the importer.
◾Document of employment attesting the importer and the document evidencing ownership of the vehicle by the company.

Declare under penalty of perjury, that commit to return the vehicle in question, within authorized no longer perform acts or omissions that constitute offenses or crimes for misuse or destination.


Who can drive the vehicle imported temporarily into the country

In the case of Mexicans living abroad

For the importer, your spouse, parents, children or siblings provided they are permanent residents abroad, or by a condition of stay abroad temporary resident, student or temporary resident visitors. When driven by someone other than the authorized invariably must travel aboard the importer of the vehicle. The vehicles in this subparagraph shall comply with the requirements specified in the Regulations.

Concerning foreigners

For the importer, your spouse, parents, children or siblings, even if they are non-resident aliens for a stay abroad provided temporary resident, student or temporary resident visitors, or by a national, provided that the latter , travel aboard it any persons authorized to drive the vehicle and can make multiple entries and exits.

Amounts of guarantee temporary importation of vehicles


Model year vehicle warranty equivalent amount of domestic currency
2007 and later $ 400
2001-2006 $ 300
2000 and above $ 200



Banjercito, will return the security deposit in the same way that the person concerned constituted, provided you have registered with BANJERCITIO the final return of the vehicle before the permit expires. If the security deposit was made by credit card or international debit card, the refund will be issued to the credit card that corresponds to the banking day following the final return of the vehicle; or, if the deposit was made in cash, the return of the security shall be in cash at any CIITEV module located in border customs.

Units that can be imported along with the vehicle

Together with the temporary vehicle import you can import a boat up to four and a half feet long including the trailer for transport, cars recreational, motorcycles, wheelers, ATVs or watercraft that have not been conceived, designed or manufactured for circulated by means of communication, whether federal, state or municipal, for a maximum of three units, for which must prove ownership of the units transported and record at the same temporary import permit vehicle.

In the case of motorcycles or trimotorcycles entering the country under its own power, that have foreign plates for driving on general roads, they must apply for a temporary import permit and comply with the requirements indicated in this document, without applying mentioned in the previous paragraph.

Validity

The period allowed for returning the vehicles that had been temporarily imported by Mexicans living abroad, will be 180 calendar days of effective stay in the country, counting from the date of entry of the vehicle at the national and usable territory within a period of twelve months, considering multiple entries and exits, protected at all times by the existing warranty.

The period allowed for returning the vehicles had been temporarily imported by foreigners will be the effect of their condition of stay granted by the immigration authorities.

Extension

For foreigners with condition of stay of temporary residents and temporary resident students who renew their stay in the country, the term of temporary import permit vehicle will be credited with the official document issued by the immigration authorities, without permission of the required customs authorities.

Also, in order not to make it enforceable granted within 15 days after the date on which they shall have been granted renewal of their condition of stay temporary resident student temporary resident alien must submit to any country custom or ACOA, a written statement attesting to that fact, attaching a copy of proof of such proceedings and temporary import permit vehicle.

Return

To register and obtain proof of partial or complete return of the vehicle, the applicant shall submit to the personnel operating the CIITEV BANJERCITO Modules customs exit the car, permission, hologram, and where appropriate, recreational vehicles and trailer for transportation which have been imported temporarily."

NOTE:

Mexicans who get a TIP can exit and reenter with a TIP for 180 days. Foreigners with a 180 day FMM may ONLY exit with a TIP turned in. 

Automóviles


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## chicois8

This is how I go to Guatemala through Mexico:
Loreto to Queretaro = 9 hours
Queretaro to Cardenas, Tabasco = 8 1/2 hours
Cardenas to Tapachula= 5 1/2 hours......

driving solo..........all toll roads - day time only


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## coondawg

As one poster suggested, check with a Mexican consulate about driving across Mexico. That type of permit could be what you are looking for. I have no experience with that. One thing you want to be sure you do is not do anything that has a chance to put you and your family at risk. Remember, what we say our experiences here are, yours will be different, and you must feel comfortable with whatever you decide to do. Good luck.


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## telcoman

If you are driving across its pretty easy to keep the Visa. I do it all the time. I think you can keep the TIP even if you turn in the visa. I have. 

Do drive after dark, it is a very bad idea, especially in the NE.


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## chicois8

some people are cheap, others are cheaters, some people are both.........


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## ojosazules11

Regarding if each person needs to pay for their own FMM, yes. When entering by air, the cost is added to the airfare, and even my minor children get their own FMM. I don't believe it's any different when entering by land - you each need an FMM and will each need to pay the associated cost. 

The former "transit visa" was eliminated in the most recent Immigration Law. The only provision I can find for this currently is for passengers flying through the Mexico City airport with less than 24 hr layover, their travel document/passport is held by the airline crew and given to Immigration agents on arrival in Mexico City and returned to the passenger when boarding the next flight, they have to remain in a special transit room of the airport accompanied by a special Immigration agent and they still have to pay US$25 for this.


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## Tex2Guat

I am cheap. Guess that comes with raising LOTS of kids withOUT govt assistance or handouts.

As such, *I'd like ideas for cheap but safe hotels* (safe for vehicle, not as worried about intruders. God help the fool that breaks in on 4 athletic adult male Texans going over 200# each and all well over 6') in the Tampico area. That location seems to work out well for a stopping place on our schedule. 

(I'd rather just drive straight through but many here seem to think that may not be a good idea.)


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## Tex2Guat

Chicois8, as to

"This is how I go to Guatemala through Mexico:
Loreto to Queretaro = 9 hours
Queretaro to Cardenas, Tabasco = 8 1/2 hours
Cardenas to Tapachula= 5 1/2 hours......

driving solo..........all toll roads - day time only"

Not sure, but this seems to be out of the way if Houston is on my route. Your thoughts?

[Sorry, new to this. Should have quoted original]


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## Tex2Guat

What are are your thoughts about traveling at night if we only do it on the road from Sayula/Acayucan thru Veracruz and Poza Rica and Cerro Azul to Tampico, it getting light before we get to the Tampico area. Much of that seems to be tollway, and it's not in the NE part of the country. 

Does that make a difference?


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## chicois8

There is only a short section of gulf coast road north of Veracruz is 4 lane toll road, it is then a 2 lane
highway with southbound Pemex 18 wheelers, buses and convoys of small trucks towing trucks and cars to Belize...I have only driven as far a Poza Rica northbound then I usually head left towards 57...So no I would never drive that road at night...why do you insist driving at night with your family? If you go the route I suggested earlier the total drive time is 23 hours divided into 3 days with your first day only a 5 1/2 hour drive so all paper work can be taken care of.suerte


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## RVGRINGO

“I read on another post that it was not allowed to keep the TIP if we leave Mex into Texas on the Tourist Permit. Any knowledge of that for sure?“

You are absolutely correct and Chicois is wrong on that detail. You MUST turn in your car permit and have Banjercito remove the sticker whenever you leave Mexico. Yhe FMM touist permit becomes invalid the moment you depart Mexico, voiding the car permit and deposit is forfeit, and you need to get a new FMM upon your return. Yes, each individual needs a tourist permit.
Some violate this rule and have done so for years, before the deposits, and got away with it. However, if in an accident or checked by Federales in detail, their nice new computers would possibly cost you the vehicle, contents and maybe worse. In short: Check in, check out.


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## coondawg

Tex2Guat said:


> (I'd rather just drive straight through but many here seem to think that may not be a good idea.)


The chances are that you would be fine driving at night; however, it I not unheard of for cartels and even gangs to set up road blocks(even on toll roads) at night. They normally use high powered weapons, so I am not sure how they would be deterred by such big people. Also, many cars/trucks drive at night with little or no lights, stop and sleep halfway off the road, and often large animals (cows/horses/donkeys) can be found wandering loose at night on the highways. You probably will have no problem, hopefully, if you do decide to drive at night. One more thing, be sure, if you do drive at night, to bring money for mordida, as a car at night with NOB plates is a prime target for police looking for some extra spending money.


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## Tex2Guat

chicois8 said:


> There is only a short section of gulf coast road north of
> 
> ... why do you insist driving at night with your family?
> 
> This is how I go to Guatemala through Mexico:
> Loreto to Queretaro = 9 hours [Assume you mean Nuevo Laredo?]
> Queretaro to Cardenas, Tabasco = 8 1/2 hours
> Cardenas to Tapachula= 5 1/2 hours......
> 
> driving solo..........all toll roads - day time only
> 
> If you go the route I suggested earlier the total drive time is 23 hours divided into 3 days with your first day only a 5 1/2 hour drive so all paper work can be taken care of.suerte


Please remain patient with me. I only ask because I don't know.

In answer to your question about why, I have a large family, requiring 3 motel rooms every night, and we are not coming to Mex for tourism this trip, only trying to get to the States for family reasons. And stopping once necessitates stopping two nites, which doubles the triple room cost and triples the number of days required for the trip. Most of the family is grown, and 8 large gringos in a 15 year old Guatemala plated not-so-pretty microbus van (with totally tinted windows including windshields) just seems to not fit the typical description of a targeted vehicle. Please everyone feel free to correct me.

The route you suggest shows (on the gov't page) to cost double the tolls of the carr costera route I mentioned but may actually be better road. In total it takes the same time as the other, but is quite a bit further in km, so must have much better roads your way.

The times you show are equal or better than google maps show - I'm assuming this is the route you've personally driven and these are the times you made it in?
Will I have any problems if I can't drive at those speeds? Not sure I can make as good time as you show. My microbus van (15 passenger) does not have a good high end. I'll be cranking that little 2.5L turbo diesel over 3200rpm to even hope to get the average speed your list shows, much less the speed from Monterrey to Laredo which would require averaging over 100km/hr. I know that's nothing for a US made vehicle, but I'm driving a 15 year old imported Korean microbus. 

Is there any reason I should not take the La Ventura/Matias Romero route to the tollway instead of going to Cardenas? It seems to be better road and I can spend the night in Acayucan, making the second day a little shorter. I don't mind the first day being a little longer, as I plan to leave the City in time to be at the border at Talisman by 8 Mex time. And I am seriously considering getting the TIP online in advance so I won't have to hassle with that. Not sure, as the line at Talisman was very short the last time I tried it.

Is it possible to consider driving thru the night on the route you suggest? I know you don't like the idea, but have you heard of anyone having a problem on that route? It seems to me mostly tollway and that divided highway, so oncoming traffic shouldn't be a problem there. And the dark hours would be from just before Cordoba to around Matehuala. The rest would be daylight.

What about getting around Mex City? I'm sure it's just country boy thinking but I was told to avoid Mex City like the plague. Does the trip get close enough to the City to be a problem? Are there tollways around the City? 
Same questions for Monterrey please.

When I finally make a decision, I'll want to ask your assistance in fuel stops and hotels if necessary (hoping against hope to not need hotels if can drive thru). I can only go about 300km before I want to get a refill on diesel.

Also, sort of off the subject, but what has been your experience with credit card use in Mexico? Do you recommend using a Visa for fuel, or should I plan to get enough cash (pesos) to pay for it all? That will be a LOT of cash!

*Thanks *for keeping the conversation going. And I ask others that read this to please chime in and offer your thoughts as well.


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## chicois8

RV RINGO, I do not know where you got this quote:

“I read on another post that it was not allowed to keep the TIP if we leave Mex into Texas on the Tourist Permit. Any knowledge of that for sure?“

You are absolutely correct and Chicois is wrong on that detail. You MUST turn in your car permit and have Banjercito remove the sticker whenever you leave Mexico. 

I have always written that you must turn in FMM when leaving Mexico thus voiding the TIP...I have always said you can not keep the FMM and TIP enter the USA and return on the same permits...

Look at my posts 180 and 185...........


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## Hound Dog

Driving an old beat up car with Guatemala plates filled with large hombres willl impress no one on the route you suggest. We drive that all the time and would not ever even dream of driving those roads at night or even close to night. The last time we drive back to Lake Chapala from Chiapas about two weeks ago, bandits were robbing cars on the autopista from Tuxtla Guttierez to Tinaja during the morning hours and these creeps will kill you in a second at little provocation. We would not even dream, of driving that road at night and we drive it during the day with apprehension and we have for years. ,


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## citlali

To avoif Mexico City you take the toll road Arco Norte so you do not go near the city.

I think Cordoba Puebla at night and on to further northis not a good idea. The is a very steep grade between Orizaba and Puebla where many cars and truck break down and it is an area where you have lots of fog as well. I know the bus we go from the government last year broke down at 2am in a curve on the fast lane going up that roa.in the fog as well.. If you take that road make sure you have flares..
Everyone on the bus was terrified as the road is the main Vera Cruz DF freeway and there is a very large numbers of doule trailers and trailers on that road especially at night. Not a good place to break down esecially at night with a large family in the car.


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## ojosazules11

Tex2Guat said:


> Most of the family is grown, and 8 large gringos in a 15 year old Guatemala plated not-so-pretty microbus van (with totally tinted windows including windshields) just seems to not fit the typical description of a targeted vehicle. Please everyone feel free to correct me.
> 
> ...
> 
> Is it possible to consider driving thru the night on the route you suggest? I know you don't like the idea, but have you heard of anyone having a problem on that route? It seems to me mostly tollway and that divided highway, so oncoming traffic shouldn't be a problem there. And the dark hours would be from just before Cordoba to around Matehuala. The rest would be daylight.
> 
> ...
> 
> *Thanks *for keeping the conversation going. And I ask others that read this to please chime in and offer your thoughts as well.


I would think that a 15 passenger Guatemalan vehicle with tinted windows travelling at night could be a target for different reasons. Some might think you're carrying a load of Guatemalan tourists or migrants trying to get North, just ripe for the picking. I don't know the statistics, but I think Guatemalans in Mexico could be considered easier targets than those from the U.S. and Canada, if for no other reason than there's usually more media attention when something happens to the latter.

I also agree 100% with Citlali's comments about driving at night. 30 years ago I drove the coastal road from Tapachula to Matamoros straight through without stopping, in heavy rains and winds. Nothing bad happened. I was lucky. Now I would neither drive the coastal road nor drive at night on any route.


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## Playaboy

Here is my 2 cents. 

No night driving. 

There is a transit pass people get to traverse Mexico with cars to Central America. This is different than a TIP. I am not sure about heading north. Check with Aduana.

Keep your tourist visas when you go into the USA. If you stop at INM to turn your FMM, telling them that you are going shopping for a couple of days, there is a 99.9% chance the officer will tell you to keep it because you still have time. I always kept my tourist cards until they expired going in and out of Mexico frequently. Remember the law is what the INM officer tells you it is, not the law posted on the internet or a bunch of web board advice. 

Stay out of Tamaulipas and Northern Veracruz. Even the Mexicans are scared to drive that route. I drove it for many years on my way to Cancun. I won't go that way now.

Mexican Tourists Now Traveling with Police Escorts to the US Border There were many stories and videos like this in the RGV news a couple of months ago.

With Guat plates YOU ARE A TARGET for criminals, either cops or cartels. Things might get them more pissed off that you are Americans rather CA migrants. 

Being from TX, you should know that no matter the size of your boys, Smith and Wesson is bigger.


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## circle110

My 2 slightly different cents:

Do turn in your FMM when leaving Mexico. 

1) It is required and is clearly stated on the back side of the FMM.

2) The current immigration law states that it is for a maximum of 180 concurrent days. That means if you leave Mexico you break the string of concurrent days so it is no longer valid.

3) I was fined upon returning to Mexico because my wife accidentally pulled out my FMM that I failed to turn in when leaving. They wouldn't give me a new FMM until I paid the fine.

4) INM border agents have no real idea about the law, nor is there any uniformity in what they do. One may tell you to not turn in your FMM but the next one may fine you if you don't. 

They always took my FMM and entered something in their computer when I turned it in. If you fly out, you can't get on the plane until you turn it in.


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## ojosazules11

circle110 said:


> My 2 slightly different cents:
> 
> Do turn in your FMM when leaving Mexico.
> 
> 1) It is required and is clearly stated on the back side of the FMM.
> 
> 2) The current immigration law states that it is for a maximum of 180 concurrent days. That means if you leave Mexico you break the string of concurrent days so it is no longer valid.
> 
> 3) I was fined upon returning to Mexico because my wife accidentally pulled out my FMM that I failed to turn in when leaving. They wouldn't give me a new FMM until I paid the fine.
> 
> 4) INM border agents have no real idea about the law, nor is there any uniformity in what they do. One may tell you to not turn in your FMM but the next one may fine you if you don't.
> 
> They always took my FMM and entered something in their computer when I turned it in. If you fly out, you can't get on the plane until you turn it in.


Out of curiosity, how much was the fine?


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## coondawg

I agree with Playaboy's comments, but I still believe you can go through Tamaulipas if you come up from Matehuala, taking the toll around Monterrey, and then toll to Laredo (in the daytime). The INM booths are a couple of blocks off the bridge road, so you will need to exit and go under the bridge, or not, depends if you decide to keep or turn in your FMM and visa.


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## coondawg

Another comment: wife and I, as we go back and forth often, sometimes have crossed to Nuevo Laredo at night, and instead of getting a motel, have decided to drive on; or, we have left Leon late, and it is getting late but we decided to drive on to Laredo for the night . (Remember, we have made this trek close to 100 times the last 15 years, so we have a LOT of experience here, but never made the trip without a big smile of relief when we reach our destination.

Once we get out of Nuevo Laredo(a place no one wants to be out at night in and foreign vehicles are very subject to stop by mordida seeking police), the roads (tolls and free roads) are good and there is lots of truck traffic, but it moves along well). We go no further than Matehuala, where we stay the rest of the night at a "hot sheet" motel. We would not have a problem going on, except we are very tired. Remember, we have driven this route MANY times, and we only use free roads (I do not recommend that for you).
I honestly feel, if you are determined to drive at night, that you come up from the Arco Norte toward Queretaro, Matehuala, Saltillo by-pass, Monterrey by-pass, Nuevo Laredo. Suerte.


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## coondawg

Suggested that you not use any credit cards. A debit card would be an excellent choice for you withdrawing pesos from an aTm, to pay everything discretely in cash. Do not carry all your cash in one place, in case you were forced to empty your pockets, etc. When filling up, be sure you get a fill up by "watching" the guy pump the gas and the meter. So many little things to mention, but surely those were the same problems in Guatemala, no? You should be somewhat seasoned about not trusting people by now?


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## Hound Dog

I would not dream of driving in Tamaulipas State (Nuevo Laredo among other places ) at night nor would I wish to drive from there into Texas at night. Actually. ´it´s not just road bandits that should frighten you but truly dangerous rogué cops out to steal your money and kill your ass at 3:00AM whether you are in Mexico or the United States. Mind your butt. Nobody you meet out there would give you three cents for it but they will waste a bullet shooting it wthtout a momento of concern,.


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## coondawg

Hound Dog said:


> I would not dream of driving in Tamaulipas State (Nuevo Laredo among other places ) at night nor would I wish to drive from there into Texas at night. Actually. ´it´s not just road bandits that should frighten you but truly dangerous rogué cops out to steal your money and kill your ass at 3:00AM whether you are in Mexico or the United States. Mind your butt. Nobody you meet out there would give you three cents for it but they will waste a bullet shooting it wthtout a momento of concern,.


I understand your comments about Nuevo Laredo and agree, but obviously you have no experience driving from Laredo, North at night, so I will speak from vast experience on that point. We have never had any suggestion of problems over the last 16 years when we have made this treck through Texas at night, never heard of any problems with "banditos" or "rogue cops", nor have we ever encountered anything that one would call a "rogue cop " in Texas on these drives, or anywhere else in Texas. My wife (a Mexican citizen) usually does the driving in Texas to our home 4.5 hours North and slightly West of Laredo. We have encountered, on more than one occasion, the Texas Highway Patrol, and they were in every case extremely courteous, yet very professional in the performance of their duty. Once we were actually given a "warning" citation, and on another, we stopped them to ask directions to their favorite Mexican restaurant. You cannot imagine how relaxed and relieved and safe my wife feels after we cross that bridge and head North. I think the OP is more interested in hearing from people who actually do this drive recently. Just sayin'.


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## circle110

ojosazules11 said:


> Out of curiosity, how much was the fine?


I forget exactly (this was over 3 years ago) but it was something like $750 - $1000 pesos.


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## Tex2Guat

coondawg said:


> I understand your comments about Nuevo Laredo and agree, but obviously you have no experience driving from Laredo, North at night, so I will speak from vast experience on that point. We have never had any suggestion of problems over the last 16 years when we have made this treck through Texas at night, never heard of any problems with "banditos" or "rogue cops", nor have we ever encountered anything that one would call a "rogue cop " in Texas on these drives, or anywhere else in Texas. My wife (a Mexican citizen) usually does the driving in Texas to our home 4.5 hours North and slightly West of Laredo. We have encountered, on more than one occasion, the Texas Highway Patrol, and they were in every case extremely courteous, yet very professional in the performance of their duty. Once we were actually given a "warning" citation, and on another, we stopped them to ask directions to their favorite Mexican restaurant. You cannot imagine how relaxed and relieved and safe my wife feels after we cross that bridge and head North. I think the OP is more interested in hearing from people who actually do this drive recently. Just sayin'.


First, a GREAT BIG THANK YOU to all the posters who have responded. Please keep the input coming, especially those of you who have made the trip in the recent past.

I thought I had said this earlier, but I'll state it now in case I didn't: We would ONLY expect to be driving in the dark hours from just before Cordoba (Veracruz-Llave?) to around Matehuala (San Luis Potosi?), meaning Cordoba/MexCity/Queretaro/SanLuis/Matehuala. The rest would be daylight, expecting to hit Loredo around noon. And on the return trip home, we would be hitting Loredo around 10am-11a.m., putting us driving in the dark from around Queretaro to Sayula. 
Thus we would not be driving any time in the dark in the northern section.
Does ANYONE have recent experience driving this route in the recent past? I'd love to hear from you PLEASE.

We obviously do NOT want to get into trouble, but living here in Guat for two years now, I've learned that much of the fear that is discussed on the web is not relevant to our lives. We drive all over the country (just NOT in downtown in Z1) including at night and have had no problems except the standard dodging chicken buses in our lane and watching for painted rocks or tree limbs marking 'stopped vehicle ahead'. I do not want to belittle a serious problem, but I also do not want to make too big an issue of an isolated problem. If the probabilities are very small of a problem when driving at night OUTSIDE of the northern sections, I'd like to know that. I don't mind dodging cows and parked cars. I am native Texan country boy and am used to that. And it is a standard here in Guat as well. Not necessarily cows, but people will walk out into the road at the stupidest times!

And I have several family members and close family friends who are Texas DPS, county sheriff and constable, and city police, and I have never experienced any insurmountable problems with any Texas peace officers. Most are totally professional.

I anxiously await your response to the possibility of driving in the dark hours in the areas discussed above. To the poster discussing the fog and hill climbs I offer my apology. Please repost including defining where the locations you are discussing is. I am not familiar enough to understand where you are meaning at this time.

Thanks and God bless...


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## ojosazules11

Tex2Guat said:


> We obviously do NOT want to get into trouble, but living here in Guat for two years now, I've learned that much of the fear that is discussed on the web is not relevant to our lives. We drive all over the country (just NOT in downtown in Z1) including at night and have had no problems except the standard dodging chicken buses in our lane and watching for painted rocks or tree limbs marking 'stopped vehicle ahead'.
> 
> ...


Just wondering why you don't drive in Zona 1? (This is the center of Guatemala City for those who aren't familiar with Guate - the city is divided into Zones which form a sort of spiral out from Z1 in the center.) Is it because of how tight the driving can be there, and you're navigating a large van? Or is it safety? I ask because I'm quite comfortable both driving and walking around that area.

I agree that there is no real difference in risk between driving at night in Guatemala vs Mexico. I personally avoid it in both countries, but each person has to decide on what level of risk they're comfortable with. 

Once driving back from Panajachel, we got delayed and were driving that very curvy, narrow road in the dark. The beautiful, picturesque road on the way down in daylight became ominous, isolated and desolate at night, and the person driving was visibly nervous. He was afraid of someone putting a log across the road to stop us and rob us. He pointed out we were the ONLY traffic on the road - even the pedestrians and motos had disappeared. When we got to the main highway, the poor driver urgently needed to heed the call of nature, so he got out by the side of the road. We saw a car pulling over and stopping. My oldest daughter was nervous then said, "Oh, good, it's a police car." The rest of us said that was no guarantee of "good", the driver hurriedly got back in the car and off we went down the Pan American highway.


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## Playaboy

In the little car business I do, I have crossed in and out of Mexico over 20 times in the last year. In the last month I have driven over 6000 miles throughout Mexico.

I just find it amazing that people, with little real life experiences in actually crossing the border frequently, think they know the laws better than the people that are there to enforce those laws. If the INM official tell you that you can exit Mexico and enter with the same FMM, are you going to argue with them? Are you going to quote the laws, that you read on the internet or on the back of the FMM form, to the officer and tell that officer how to do their job or they are WRONG? Only fools try that.



For the poster that received the fine, what were you fined for? Did you get a receipt for paying the fine (you paid but were you really fined or buying dinner)? Was it because you didn't turn the FMM in when you exited? Was that FMM current or expired? My guess is that it was expired.


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## PanamaJack

I have not been online for months but when I read about an expat who does not even live in Mexico insisting on driving at night I have to give my two pesos worth. Tex2Guat I have lived here in Mexico for close to 38 years. I have traversed every different kind of road this country has. the one rule I have had since I was a new driver as a teen until today is NEVER drive at night outside of any metropolitan area. If you are naive enough to think your Guatemalan plated vehicle is a not a target think again. At first site they will think it is full of tourists which means money, cameras, documents, etc, etc. Others might think it is a group of well to do Guatemalans with money. Few will think migrants because they just do not drive the major roadways and much less in a van with Guatemalan plates.
My question to you is if the safety of your family is worth more or less than the cost of two nights in a hotel? Oh, one more thing. the big 6-foot plus males will not scare anyone who is holding a high powered weapon that can shoot all four in a split second or a police officer asking for tomorrows lunch. Believe me, the people on this forum have forgotten more about Mexico and driving its roads than you know and the bottom line each one has said here is NO NIGHT DRIVING.


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## coondawg

Two comments: (1) many people here are honestly concerned with your safety and that of your family; (2) the law in Mexico is usually what the officials tell you it is and not how it is written.

Everyone here is trying sincerely to help you, we just express it differently.


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## citlali

The roads in Chiapas ae full of retens to catch people from Central America so Guatemalan plates make you a target period.


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## Tex2Guat

chicois8 said:


> This is how I go to Guatemala through Mexico:
> Loreto to Queretaro = 9 hours
> Queretaro to Cardenas, Tabasco = 8 1/2 hours
> Cardenas to Tapachula= 5 1/2 hours......
> ..........all toll roads - day time only


OK! So, *NO* night driving 

Please tell me if the stop in Acayucan, going there thru Matias Romeo, is an acceptable option to Cardenas. Since we plan to leave plenty early, that will cut a little time off the second day, and a friend told me there is a safe hotel there in Acayucan with parking.
*[please, anyone with ideas for hotels, especially with safe parking chime in with names and places of hotels]*

And what are the hotel options in Queretaro? 
*[again, anyone with ideas for hotels, especially with safe parking chime in with names and places of hotels]*

And which are the safest ATMs to use? And can you tell me the best Pemex stops to plan? I don't want to try to stretch the fuel tank past about 300km per fillup. That would leave me nearly 4 gallons when I stop each time.

Thanks again for your guidance and patience. God bless.


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## Playaboy

About an hour west of Acayucan, on cuota 145D, is the Cosamaloapan toll booth. Right before paying is a no-frills Mexican motel, Pemex, and a 24 hour restaurant.


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## coondawg

I would think that any Banamex, Bancomer, or Banorte ATM would work. I like Banorte because I can take out over 10,000 at a time, where on the other 2, they usually limit me to 3,000. You may have to actually enter a city to find them.


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## Tex2Guat

Playaboy said:


> About an hour west of Acayucan, on cuota 145D, is the Cosamaloapan toll booth. Right before paying is a no-frills Mexican motel, Pemex, and a 24 hour restaurant.


Great! Thanks so much. That would be even better if we make it that far BEFORE dark. 

And if we do get that far the first day, does anyone have a recommendation for a place to stop the second night that would be a bit closer to Nuevo Loredo? In theory, I should have about 13 hours of driving time at best, so where would be a good place to stop somewhere around 11-12 hours (about 750km) that day? Is Dolores Hidalgo a possibility with decent cheap hotels? 

By the way, what would be a good Pemex between Tapachula and there if I am traveling thru Matias Romero?

And what are the best Pemex(s) around 300km or less apart on the way across from Tapachula to Nuevo Loredo?


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## Tex2Guat

Tex2Guat said:


> Great! Thanks so much. That would be even better if we make it that far BEFORE dark.
> 
> And if we do get that far the first day, does anyone have a recommendation for a place to stop the second night that would be a bit closer to Nuevo Loredo? In theory, I should have about 13 hours of driving time at best, so where would be a good place to stop somewhere around 11-12 hours (about 750km) that day? Is Dolores Hidalgo a possibility with decent cheap hotels?
> *
> Or is Matehuala an option?* We should be able to get that far in one day with 4 drivers taking turns withOUT driving in dark.
> 
> By the way, what would be a good Pemex between Tapachula and there if I am traveling thru Matias Romero?
> 
> And what are the best Pemex(s) around 300km or less apart on the way across from Tapachula to Nuevo Loredo?


As above in bold, is Matehuala an option?


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## coondawg

If you can get to Matehuala, we always stay at the "hot sheet" motel (Villas Real ?) as you are leaving town going North, on the left. I think price is about 400p for a king, and closed garage and clean. Secure. Then the next day drive is not bad. Watch carefully getting gas in Matehuala, as they have a rep of cheating if you don't pay attention (we buy in the town, or just a very few miles South of town, not on the hwy in town.


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## coondawg

A couple of miles South of the motel(heading back toward town) on the main hwy (west side) is El Mezquite, a good restaurant with reasonable prices.


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## Tex2Guat

coondawg said:


> If you can get to Matehuala, we always stay at the "hot sheet" motel (Villas Real ?) as you are leaving town going North, on the left. I think price is about 400p for a king, and closed garage and clean. Secure. Then the next day drive is not bad. Watch carefully getting gas in Matehuala, as they have a rep of cheating if you don't pay attention (we buy in the town, or just a very few miles South of town, not on the hwy in town.


*
THANKS FOR DETAILED INFO!!!* That is SO helpful for newbies.

I plan to start looking for a hotel each night with at least 30min to an hour to spare.

Am I correct in assuming there will most likely be at LEAST one hotel with room available in most of the larger towns so that we don't need reservations?

*And all the rest of you, PLEASE continue giving details like hotels and gas stations and food recommendations as well. *We won't be stopping for sit-down food while driving, but an inexpensive clean restaurante would be great. We are really looking forward to Mexican food. (We were somewhat disappointed that Guat food is not nearly as spicy or the same as Mexican food. Stupid gringos to expect as much, but we didn't know any better. Fortunately we've made several great Guat friends who have introduced us to Guat foods we now love.) And ideas for quick food (is food at the 24ever or Oxxy good and safe?) would be appreciated as well.


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## Tex2Guat

I need as much detail as anyone can give.

Is the car inspection place still located just West of Huixtla?

If it is, can I get ALL the paperwork done there including the TIP?

The Banjercito at the frontera (Talisman) told me that they would be closing the Huixtla Banjercito office in May. Is anyone aware of such? 

The only reason it would matter is if we get to the border early as the Banjercito at the frontera does not open until 8a.m. If we get there before that, we won't be able to get the TIP there, and I don't want to drive completely across Mex without the TIP.

It is my understanding that I can legally drive to the Huixtla (assuming still there) location to get the TIP for the van. 
IS THAT CORRECT?

Can I get the FMM for the people there at Huixtla as well?

What should I expect the process to be at the stop (whether at frontera or at Huixtla) for getting the TIP and FMM? I know I will get fumagated at the frontera, but will I need it again at Huixtla if I keep the receipt? Will the car be inspected for anything at Huixtla? We planned to purchase some food stuffs at Sams Club in Tapachula and I don't want to go afoul of any rules about food.

Please give me as much detail as you know about where to get and return the TIP and FMM, as well as info on any other inspection stations we may encounter.

I need to also know if I will be OK taking roasted commercially packed Guat coffee (beans) thru Mex into the States for family as gifts. I know meats must be FDA appvd, but what about coffee? PLEASE answer so that I don't get into trouble with this.

Thanks for all the help.


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## citlali

OXXO food has hot dogs, lousy sandwiches and lots of junk food. There are small restaurants at the gas stations along the way. I do not know if they still do but the guide Rojii I have shows all the tolls and gas stations on various routes so you could checkin of those. . Usually there is at least one OXXO type near the Pemex stations but there are aslo small places that serve tacos, quesadillas eggs and so on. Some are bigger than others and I do not ever remember which is which but they are all along the road so if you miss one or one station does not have anything the next one will.


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## Playaboy

There are plenty of Pemex stations everywhere. Fill up before getting on the Arco Norte.

You should have no problems with hotel rooms if you get there well before dark. After dark everybody wants a room. 

400-500 miles in a day is plenty It really makes no sense to push for that extra 50 to 100 miles in a day and go right up to darkness.

If you are in Acayacun or Cosamaloapan for the night you will have no problem making Matehuala the next night. I have stayed at the Don Jose hotel next to the Pemex on the south side of town on the west side of the street. 350 pesos, clean, secure, and managed by a nice family. Plenty of good food in town too. That Pemex is a truck stop. There are plenty of taco stands set up. Stay away from the Pollo Feliz.

The next day's drive would be 6 hours to the border.


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## Tex2Guat

*This has been my first experience at actually getting GOOD, DETAILED, information from NICE posters on a forum. Kudos and THANKS to ALL of you!!!*

Looking at the maps, I see there at two crossings in N Laredo.
*
Which is the best one to use and why? * 

Also, *please give as detailed info as possible* on where to stop to turn in FFM/TIP and get passports stamped out of Mex. Don't want to accidentally drive past it.

Funny story, the passport stamping place leaving Guat is very easy to miss at the Talisman crossing. I drove right past and would have been in trouble if one of the money exchangers hadn't been nice enough to stop me. So don't want to screw up at the Mex Laredo crossing. 

And what about the stop on the Texas side in Laredo? 
Does it require fumigation? Any other things to be award of?
(At least I'll speak the language with them there

To make it really weird, we may be taking some hand-crafted wooden skate board decks with us for friends and family. They are stamped "made in Guatemala". Not sure if or what kind of difficulty to expect there. Any thoughts or knowledge on the matter?

And haven't heard from anyone about the *Guat coffee *crossing Mexico. Anyone with knowledge on that one?

*Please keep the DETAILED suggestions coming!! They are GREATLY appreciated!!!!!*


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## Tex2Guat

By the way, Google is really putting the screws to those of us who just use maps for maps, not for purchasing or viewing neat attractions. They are discontinuing 'Classic Maps'. Used to be able to easily change from 'new' to 'classic', but no more. Now get 'lite'. Can't map multiple stops, and can't easily drag and change the order of the stops (like for reversing a trip). Really frustrating!! Hope I'm to only one having that problem, but from reading online, seems I'm not.


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## Playaboy

Where in Texas are you going? Why Laredo?

When entering the USA my advice is to truthfully answer any of the questions asked. Good chance you will be sent to secondary since you have Guat plates. If they ask if you are bringing anything just tell them. Sometimes they let food stuffs thru other times they told me I can't the same thing. Entering Texas with any booze or cigarettes requires you to stop at the little booth and pay state taxes.

Try mapquest. 

When it is close to the time you are leaving check with Altahabana at the Mexconnect forums about any recent "activities" that might be happening. He has been a great source of info for me for years about the border "happenings".


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## ojosazules11

Tex2Guat said:


> *
> 
> And haven't heard from anyone about the Guat coffee crossing Mexico. Anyone with knowledge on that one?
> 
> *


*

I've taken a whole suitcase full of Guatemalan coffee to Canada via the US (Miami) with no problem. I know my bags were inspected because a very nice Cuban rum was in the suitcase and was missing on arrival. Somehow the Guatemalan rum in the same suitcase made it. 

I didn't even think when I packed it that Cuban products could not be taken into the US. However, I don't think that was the reason it was taken, since there was no official slip or notification about it being confiscated. I have a hunch some customs inspectors in Miami enjoyed a very nice drink - and of course I had no recourse since technically I wasn't allowed to bring it into the US (even in transit to Canada).

In terms of bringing Guatemalan coffee into Mexico, I'm not 100% sure if I've done that personally (I'm pretty sure I have, but can't swear by it). But I have had friends bring me coffee from Guatemala into Mexico with no problems that I'm aware of.*


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## ojosazules11

Update on bringing coffe into Mexico from Guatemala, after reading info from Nexican Customs (Aduanas) on-line.

Yes, roasted, packaged coffee is allowed. :tea:


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## AlanMexicali

ojosazules11 said:


> I've taken a whole suitcase full of Guatemalan coffee to Canada via the US (Miami) with no problem. I know my bags were inspected because a very nice Cuban rum was in the suitcase and was missing on arrival. Somehow the Guatemalan rum in the same suitcase made it.
> 
> I didn't even think when I packed it that Cuban products could not be taken into the US. However, I don't think that was the reason it was taken, since there was no official slip or notification about it being confiscated. I have a hunch some customs inspectors in Miami enjoyed a very nice drink - and of course I had no recourse since technically I wasn't allowed to bring it into the US (even in transit to Canada).
> 
> In terms of bringing Guatemalan coffee into Mexico, I'm not 100% sure if I've done that personally (I'm pretty sure I have, but can't swear by it). But I have had friends bring me coffee from Guatemala into Mexico with no problems that I'm aware of.


The limit is 1 liter of liquor per adult into the USA but if they did confiscate it you should have had a notice inside your suitcase and a customs tape on the outside of your suitcase. 

I used to cross into the US from Mexico with 9 lb. sealed bags of Tyson filet de pechuga de pollo from Costco every time we went there for many years [at the time it was about 1/2 the price of a US Costco]. I always declared the chicken and the border officer always let me pass with it. 

One time after Christmas we were crossing with 2 frozen sealed bags after waiting 2 hours. I declared them and this time the border officer asked "Is the chicken cooked?" I said no. He sent us to secondary with a colored slip under the windshield wiper. I parked and they come over saw the slip and callled for an "Aggie". He came over and asked to see the chicken. When he read the package said I can crosss back into Mexico and leave it there since I declared it. I said I can´t. He said then in that case I will take it and burn it. I almost said "Ya, you and your friends on the barbeque I bet." At that point I bit my tongue.


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## ojosazules11

AlanMexicali said:


> The limit is 1 liter of liquor per adult into the USA but if they did confiscate it you should have had a notice inside your suitcase and a customs tape on the outside of your suitcase.


We were within the limit, because we were 2 adults, one bottle of rum each. The Guatemalan rum made it through, the Cuban rum didn't. No notification that our suitcases had even been opened. On the way down they had been, as there was an inspection notification slip inside, but on the way back, zip, nil, nada - just a missing bottle of fine rum.


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## cscscs007

I feel if the products like chicken, beef or pork have been inspected by the Mexican version of the USDA items should be permitted to pass. If I eat the dang stuff in Mexico it should taste the same in the US.


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## GARYJ65

cscscs007 said:


> I feel if the products like chicken, beef or pork have been inspected by the Mexican version of the USDA items should be permitted to pass. If I eat the dang stuff in Mexico it should taste the same in the US.


That would be a very ****** way of putting it
SAGARPA is not the Mexican version of USDA, if something, it is it's peer


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## AlanMexicali

cscscs007 said:


> I feel if the products like chicken, beef or pork have been inspected by the Mexican version of the USDA items should be permitted to pass. If I eat the dang stuff in Mexico it should taste the same in the US.


Uncooked beef is allowed. Cooked chicken and turkey is allowed. No pork is allowed. 1 kilo of shrimp is allowed, cooked or raw. No vegtables or friuts are allowed. No eggs are allowed.

I have been sent to the "Aggies" in secondary more times. Once for hotdogs, they were taken as they had pork in them unbeknowst to me as I thought they were 100% turkey dogs. Once for a dozen eggs, taken. Once for a box full of food from my house in Mexico as I was going south for 6 months. That time they only took the ham which I thought was 100% turkey ham but the package said it had pork also.

That last time the "Aggie" gave me a detailed list of permissable and prohibited ítems, 4 pages long.

I have crossed declaring food almost every time and was passed when answering "What food do you have?" 

Hotdogs, ham, eggs got me sent to see an "Aggie". The other time only the answer, uncooked chicken did it. I knew to give the fruit and vegetables away before crossing when emptying my fridge.

These trips to secondary did not get me sent to secondary anytime in the furture. I guess they don´t care about this if you declare what you have in the car.


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## coondawg

cscscs007 said:


> I feel if the products like chicken, beef or pork have been inspected by the Mexican version of the USDA items should be permitted to pass. If I eat the dang stuff in Mexico it should taste the same in the US.


I was not aware that meats were inspected in Mexico. I know that my brother-in-law buys his meat for Taco Stand from some guy who trucks around a carcass in the back of his pickup, sure don't look "inspected" to me. Same has been true from a couple of local Abarrotes. Never get too old to learn something new.


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## coondawg

GARYJ65 said:


> That would be a very ****** way of putting it
> SAGARPA is not the Mexican version of USDA, if something, it is it's peer


Gary is that like saying "CFE is a Negocio de Clase Mundial"?


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## TundraGreen

cscscs007 said:


> I feel if the products like chicken, beef or pork have been inspected by the Mexican version of the USDA items should be permitted to pass. If I eat the dang stuff in Mexico it should taste the same in the US.


If everything in Mexico tasted the same as in the US, what would be the point of living in Mexico.


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## GARYJ65

coondawg said:


> Gary is that like saying "CFE is a Negocio de Clase Mundial"?


I didn't understand the analogy
On the first one, the comment was suggesting SAGARPA was a version of USDA, which is not true, SAGARPA does what USDA does in the USA, but was not made as a version of it
Most Countries have similar departments and most are not based on USDA
World does not rotate around the USA


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## Tex2Guat

Playaboy said:


> Where in Texas are you going? Why Laredo?


Going to the Houston area.

*I'd love to hear from everyone what they feel is "the best route" from Guatemala Talisman crossing to Houston, TX area. PLEASE include WHY* you feel it is best (i.e. fastest, safest, cheapest, easiest crossing, etc.)

Thanks so much for the assistance.  PLEASE keep it coming!


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## Tex2Guat

Tex2Guat said:


> Looking at the maps, I see there at two crossings in N Laredo.
> *
> Now I notice there are actually THREE crossings near Laredo. The furthest NW is at the 'Laredo World Trade Bridge'. *


If going through Laredo, which crossing is the best to use and why?


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## Tex2Guat

AlanMexicali said:


> Uncooked beef is allowed. Cooked chicken and turkey is allowed. No pork is allowed. 1 kilo of shrimp is allowed, cooked or raw. No vegtables or friuts are allowed. No eggs are allowed.


I think you are discussing taking food INTO the U.S. from Mex, is that right? thanks.


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## Tex2Guat

I've heard the word 'retens' mentioned. What does it mean?


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## RVGRINGO

Think, being retained. It is a roadblock or checkpoint, often by military or federal police. They are fairly common, especially heading north toward the USA.


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## AlanMexicali

coondawg said:


> I was not aware that meats were inspected in Mexico. I know that my brother-in-law buys his meat for Taco Stand from some guy who trucks around a carcass in the back of his pickup, sure don't look "inspected" to me. Same has been true from a couple of local Abarrotes. Never get too old to learn something new.


In the state of San Luis Potosí they have in our city a municipal slaughter house near the abastos. People who want to slaughter a farm animal go there. There is a fee that the city charges. They pay for the animal to be killed and cut up and I presume to be deskinned and I think leave the skins there as part of the deal and they are collected latter by brokers who sell them to tanneries.

They have these slaughter houses in other cities in the state. It is against the law to slaughter farm animals on private property here.

At the entrance I see a building that is marked "Laboratorio". I also see through openings in the wall holding pens, ramps, large plastic cisterns full of blood, etc. and trucks leaving the exit piled high with skins. It smells bad and is on a commercial blvd. and in a residencial/commercial colonia not far from downtown, maybe 6 miles.

It appears it is regulated in our state.


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## Tex2Guat

Haven't heard back, so reposting:

Going to the Houston area.

*I'd love to hear from everyone what they feel is "the best route" from Guatemala Talisman crossing to Houston, TX area. PLEASE include WHY you feel it is best (i.e. fastest, safest, cheapest, easiest crossing, etc.)*

Thanks so much for the assistance. PLEASE keep it coming!


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