# Permits, Soc Sec & Self employed confusion!



## Creative Yogi (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi, be great if anyone could help me with this please. I'm sure it's all been covered before, but struggling to find concise info. I've recently moved here (to just North of Lagos, from the UK), and the situation is that I'm intending to work self employed as an acupuncturist and yoga teacher (as soon as i'm legally able) and may also be doing some employed work too. The employed work is not the immediate priority, but it's an option - and I may also be able to work for this same employer on a self employed basis.

On top of this I also still have some very small earnings, less than £100p/w being accrued, from a business interest, back in the U.K. This may fluctuate up and down slightly. If this becomes too complex in the bigger picture, I could also shut down the U.K earnings all together.

- I'm extremely confused about the initial permit I need to have and the time frame in which I need to apply for it. From What I understand I have 90 days where I don't need a permit at all - but would I then be able to still work self employed during this time if I have a fiscal number and social security number?

Or does the fact I'm here and actively seeking work mean I have to get a permit straight away? 

I'm also confused about the various types of permit, and their translation names

I visited the SEF website and read the following

REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE FOR CITIZENS OF THE EU/EEA/SWITZERLAND Certificado de Registo para cidadão da UE

"The Registration Certificate is the document that formalizes the right of residence in Portugal and must be applied for by any EU/EEA/Switzerland citizen that remains in Portugal for a period exceeding three months. If the period of stay is inferior to three months it only mandatory to hold a valid Identity Card or Passport"

But on Angloinfo Forum it says the following I need to work here Self Employed:

A Residency Card (Cartão de Residência) issued by the Portuguese Immigration Service or SEF (Serviços de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras)

And then on a subsequent page on the same website it says:

Authorisation for Residence and Residence Permits The residence card (Autorização de Residência) is necessary for anyone who moves to Portugal, or for anyone who is planning to stay for longer than six months. This includes those who work, the self-employed, students, those intending to live off savings, retired people and family members of any of the above.

So i'm confused - what do I need to apply for: 
A registration certificate for citizens of the EU OR a Residency Card (Cartao de Residencia) OR The Residence Card (Autorizacao de Residencia) Or are they all the same thing?! 

What has confused the issue greatly is the interaction i've had with the various Portuguese authorities so far. 

On Monday I called SEF and asked them the procedure, given the fact I wish to work here self employed: The lady originally told me I have to go to Portimao City Hall. She then changed her mind and told me the following:

1) I need to go to the local Junta da Freguesia to get a declaration of residence - basically take someone with me where I am living to declare I have a permanent address and somewhere to stay. 
2) I then need to go to the local Social Security to get a social security number
3) I then need to go to Finances to get the Fiscal number. 

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IN REALITY

1) I went to the local Junta da Freguesia (in Bensafrim) and the lady there told me to go to Camara in Lagos. I went to Camara in Lagos and the receptionist told me I have to book an appt to for a residency card (scheduled for next Monday) She couldn't understand English, I can't talk Portuguese and i'm not sure what type of appt for which residency card she made for me, but I've a feeling it's for a permanent one, and not just the eu citizen registration that I think I need (see above)

2) Not satisfied with the above, since I'd made no inroads into getting the declaration of the address, fiscal number or social security number, I went to the Junta Da Freguesia in Lagos as it was close by. There the lady told me she can't give me the declaration of address until I have a Fiscal number and Social Security number. 

3) So I then went to Finances and got a Fiscal number, good! I was told to then go to Social Security.

4) I went to Social Security where they wouldn't issue me a social security number since I need to have a 'certificate' or 'evidence of activity' (which I assume means that I've started self employed work) which is issued from Finances.

I then ran out of time. So at the moment I have an appt for some kind of permit scheduled on Monday (my bad, I should really know which one but if you read above it's all a bit confused and I couldn't understand her) I have no Social Security number - as no evidence of 'activity' and no declaration of address, which I believe I need.

To further muddy the waters about what permit I need, the SEF site also seems to indicate I need a quite specific residence permit for self employment... There is a link entitled "Residence permit for Self-employed workers" or is this one of the same resident permits as outlined above? I can't post the link as I'm a first time poster

Social Security Query: 

Also - moving forward slightly, once I have a social security number, what happens if I have either a substantial period of time when I don't work or have no income - do I still have to make the monthly payments, or can I pause them? And what happens should I return to the UK? 

Any help most gratefully received! Rich


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## SpiggyTopes (Feb 1, 2015)

One thing .... for the Certido de Residencia you do not need the social security number ... utility bill, passport, NIF.


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## Creative Yogi (Jan 20, 2016)

Thanks that's good to know!


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

I understand your confusion. The thing is that the entire SEF is not for us Europeans. SEF issues this ID, the "Cartão de Residência", but again it's not for us. It's for the Brazilians, Angolans and other non-EU citizens. If you need a state-issued ID you would have to go to the other EU state where you are a national, whether you hold a passport or not. That state could produce a national ID card for you, the equivalent of a passport. As a resident of Portugal, but not a Portuguese national, you may obtain a Portuguese driver's licence, which might serve more or less the same purpose as an ID card without mentioning your nationality.

The Cartão de Residência has become obsolete for Europeans, as everyone knows nowadays A) that Great Britain is a member of the European Union (even if that might change pretty soon, which nobody knows) and B) that every EU citizen is entitled to stay in every EU country, including PT. Thus no need to show the police your Cartão de Residência. You must get the Certificate but you are not required to carry it with you on every occasion (unless the recent Paris attacks have changed this).

Work permit is not required for a European either, but you must notiify the PT in advance about your activities, for the purposes of proper taxation. (The form might look like an application, but it actually is a notification. This is a requirement if you want to sublet your dwelling also. The controlled professions is another matter. A tax number, NIF, is also required if you become a resident. It is not the equivalent of a social security number.)


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## Verinia (Apr 6, 2012)

Hi,

To start you self employed activity, you need to fill in an "inicio de " inicio de actividade" with a number for the activity you want to undertake. I am not sure of the law regarding acupuncture and alternative therapies In Portugal...they seem to be quite "anti" so check that first. When you do this, you will need to enter invoices online, as they occur. In the early days, I would say you need help with this and also with submitting your tax return to the Portuguese authorities. You will be taxed in Portugal on your worldwide income, but may need to do a Uk tax return and the tax years are different, so getting help would be wise.

If you earn over 10,000 euros a year you have to register for VAT and for this, you will need an accountant.

The other things to be aware of is Social Security, which you will have to pay if you earn more than 2500 odd euros a year. You can apply for a year's exemption, and then the SS payment will be due in subsequent years. It can be quite a lot so check with an accountant what you would expect to pay.

Your income tax will be based on your earnings.

As you see, it is a bit complicated, so do take advice. I am not a professional, just someone who has been through the process.

Good luck!


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## Verinia (Apr 6, 2012)

Found this link re acupuncture and alternative therapies.

forgive me if you already know this, it wasn't what you asked...it's just I remembered that the law used to be that only medical doctors could practice acupuncture here.

New alternative medicine laws | Portugal Resident


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## Creative Yogi (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi Verinia, thanks for that info. I've fortunately now managed to work through virtually all of the Residency logistics, just got to try and get my head around the tax system! And thanks for the acupuncture info too, i've been working through that, and while it's taking a long time I am able to practice here as soon as I get my documents ratified! Cheers Rich


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## Pennyqss (Dec 7, 2015)

It may cost a bit but worth it if they can then save you money in the long run by not falling foul of the law --..- I'd get advice. A super outfit I use in Guia, is EuroFinesco. All speak perfect English and they can advise on tax and fill forms in etc. If you got going sooner cos you'd covered all the legalities you'd have earned enough to cover the cost of their advice anyway. Just my opinion as it's quite onerous and all in portugese........ Good luck in your new venture.


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## Creative Yogi (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi Pennyqss, yes I think you are right, I need to get some advice with the tax as its just all getting super confusing. I had a brief conversation in passing with a Brit the other day who said he works out here part of the year but tells me still pays tax in the uk (not here) whereas I was under the impression you had to pay tax here on all Portugal income, and if you are here over 183 days also on any other worldwide income. I think Guia might be a little far for me but if you (or anyone else) knows a tax or financial advisor a little closer to Lagos I'd be happy to know, otherwise I'll get googling! Cheers


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## jules_1960 (May 3, 2016)

Hi Verinia

Sorry for jumping in on this post but it seems like having gone through the process you have some great advice. I am just in the process of getting residency and starting up a business as Self Employed - do you know anything about Registering a business in Portugal? Everything seems so much more complicated here than in the UK?

Thanks in advance


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## Creative Yogi (Jan 20, 2016)

Hey Jules, the other super helpful folks on here I'm sure can give more depth, but I had to go to the local finances office and register your 'activity' - you get allocated a code depending on what your work is, then you have to go to Social Security and register there too, so that 12 months or so down the line you then have to start making SS contributions.


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## Pennyqss (Dec 7, 2015)

Hi
They may be in Guia but I've never even met them. I sent all info that they needed by post and all is now done by email. They are sure and certainly worth a chat with them over the phone. Good luck


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

*VAT for acupuncture in PT*



Verinia said:


> ...
> If you earn over 10,000 euros a year you have to register for VAT and for this, you will need an accountant.
> ...


Me thinks aloud, for completeness' sake: The Portuguese tax authority would also agree, that personal services in the form of acupuncture should be considered to be non-qualified Medical Services; thus your business is not exempt from VAT as are the qualified Medical Services (provided by medical doctors first and foremost). EU law allows reduced VAT for your professional activities. The TA would express it's agreement by registering your business for VAT, and decide what VAT rate you should apply.

Oh, I almost forgot: When the requirement is for an accountant, it generally means a chartered accountant. This is not a lawyer nor is it a tax adviser. In Portugal they maintain this distinction. There might exist tax advisers elsewhere who perform the auditing also, but not in PT.


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

*Universal tax claims*



Creative Yogi said:


> ... but tells me still pays tax in the uk (not here) whereas I was under the impression you had to pay tax here on all Portugal income, and if you are here over 183 days also on any other worldwide income. ...


You seem to assume that all income is either taxed here or there, but that is not so. It might well be taxed both here and there and whether you like it or not.

The 183 days rule is not unique for Portugal. It has to do with Residency as basis for taxation. Under Portuguese law you are deemed to be a resident of Portugal under certain criteria and if you live here for at least 183 days in a year you have fulfilled one of them. If so, then Residency is the basis for Portuguese tax claims on your universal income, and you are liable to pay tax here. But the other state ("the Source State" for instance), might, according to it's domestic laws, have other grounds for it's tax claims on you, and a tax treaty between the relevant states might allow for such "additional taxation" from the other state. The tax treaty might specifically allow the states involved to tax your income, and restrictions on the rates and conditions for this additional taxation might also apply. - Most states and most tax treaties favour residency as the basis of taxation.


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## LeFranc (May 29, 2014)

*Please advise*

Hi.... I knew it's going to be a multiannual uphill battle.... despite I read somewhere it takes just one day to register a biz in PT... hmmm.... so how does one register a lone wolf biz in PT before even moving there? It is so confusing, some "friends" told me they never even bother to submit "tax returns" or to "register as a business" and they say they never get audited cause they say the taxman goes after the big fish... Well, I do not want to live all sweaty and stressed. How does one register as sole proprietor a so-called self-employed individual, say selling on ebaY? Use savings for some years and then get all businessy.... Does one have to move to Portugal before they register or can they register before moving there? I tried to call the "finanzas" and emailed them, but my emails bounced back and hey never responded and it's been almost a year now and no answers.... They just hung up on me after I tried to "speak in Portuguese".... and they seem to not want to speak any English.... I may as well move elsewhere, but still would like to give Portugal another chance. I would appreciate any help you could provide.


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

*Empresa Unipessoal*



LeFranc said:


> How does one register as sole proprietor a so-called self-employed individua .... Does one have to move to Portugal before they register or can they register before moving there?


 Maybe you shouldn't expect more than very rudimentary guidelines for how to get organised here. First of all, don't expect PT to be a tax haven, It's not, but taxes are generally reasonable by European standards, even if VAT is a bit on the high side. From this general idea I deduce that you must appear in person at an office to have your business registered. The Portuguese won't accept any covert mail box offshore enterprise on their territory, so you would probably fare better in Gibraltar or Panama if this is a deal breaker for you. If you intend to do business here you would need a native acountant, so I'd suggest to contact one immediately. Then be prepared to go with your accountant to various offices, bringing your personal id and what you have as documents and go from there. The office of business registrations is in every major city, there are several in Porto and Lisbon. The accountant will know if to suggest you to bring someone as an interpreter. There will be rather modest costs for registrations, your accountant should know.:yo:


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## LeFranc (May 29, 2014)

G'day again, so nice to read from you mate, and thanks for your helpful hints and thank you very much for your advise.......... guys, we took a yacht from Morocco to Madeira to Portugal the islands etc. and have been staying in Port6ugal enjoying it very much guys.... it's such a nice trip. Now we are going to head for Bermuda and even Puerto Rico. The yacht is my friend's and I wish I had my own yacht as well. There's a guy who want to take it around the world via Tierra del Fuego! Cape Horn is not for the fainthearted! We wants to do it meh. Go figure!! I advise you guys get a yacht ant take it for a ride in the stormy Atlantic at least once in your lifetime. Well, guess what, recently we went into a building called "Financas"? in Portugal cause my friend Fred speaks some Portuguese. They told him they have got no idea about how to register a business that would have its sales such as exotic artifacts, shells, masks, old fishing nets and other exotic collectibles sold on ebay, amazon, delcampe etc. etc. you name it, you know, all that internet selling sailing related stuff and other junk all over the world, usually does not get sold to poor countries such as Morocco where we have been hanging out for a while, all of Africa, most of Asia or South American and usually ends up sold to Americans, Germans, the French, Australians you know all that stuff? Well, guess what, we were laughing at their faces when we were told them we were a team of yachtsmen and some gals with us wanting to register an international biz based on Portugal bcuz its so out there in the Atlantic easy to get on and off in a yacht selling junk yowl we acquire on our yacht voyages. We have difficulty doing that from our "sand farm" in Morocco heheh du as the mail theft is really heavy in the most of Africa. So what they told us is to see an attorney and an accountant, I mean a small biz, we have our own savings but just wanted to sell some stuff not really into doing it full time perhaps more than that, we're not rich or want to spend or even deal with an attorney, which most of the attys suck and are charging a fortune for nothing yowl, especially the Portuguese atty we've had experience with was such a bummer..... who knows, so the "finanzes" has no idea how to do that in person, as you mentioned IN PERSON, so we did it in person, but they've got not a slightest idea a clue and I think I know why, cause I've been told they've been ignoring foreign expats and the like for long enough and now should we register it in Portugal, which we love, yes, we love Portugal, or should we try Spain Italy Greece instead but we do need to be out in the Atlantic a lot and have easy axess 2 some reliable economy unlike Africa to register with? Portuguese "finacas" has no idea, no clue, then how do they expect to collect some dough, oh but they've told os their own dear citizens to go get jobs in Angola and Mozamique, that's what I've heard. Is that true? Def not tax heaven, we're not looking for tax heavn no way meh. Just want to make it right cuz wer rlly not into making big bucks just want to sell off what we got as our catch. Sorry if I may sound rude I did not mean to, please take care and hope to hear from y'all soon.


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