# British Guy, Dies in Bur Dubai Police Custody...



## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Happened 2 days ago, 7days will be covering it tomorrow, as will Daily Mail....

He was arrested initially for being drunk, got a bit abusive with the police who (allegedly) beat him up and he died of his injuries.

Watch yourselves out there....


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Will be interested to read this story and the spin on both sides of what happened.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Simple really, he was arrested a week or so ago, died yesterday having been beaten up, they don't know whether it was the Police or the inmates though....


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

Not sure what to think here. The guy deserved to get arrested if he was acting up in front of authority, alcohol is no excuse. Who knows what he did to get beaten up, probably something they're not used to hearing or seeing here but who knows?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Briton arrested for swearing 'beaten to death' in Dubai police cell | Mail Online

Did he deserve to be?

Have a look, he's a tourist, not a resident...



> Police sources say he was ‘badly beaten up’ by a group of police officers, leaving him unconscious on the floor.
> Inmates told how they watched officers bundle him into a body-bag and drag him out of the building.
> During Mr Brown’s six days in Bur Dubai police station, guards refused to give him enough food and water and did not let him see a lawyer, it is alleged.





> A source told the Daily Mail last night: ‘He suffered a really bad beating which must have caused some terrible internal injuries.
> ‘The poor bloke stood no chance at all. At one stage he was thrown against the concrete wall of a cell and landed badly.





> Bur Dubai police station is a notoriously violent place where beatings, starvation, rape and the force-feeding of drugs is common-place. Foreign prisoners are often kept in cramped cells with up to 20 inmates for weeks for trivial offences.
> Human rights charities say police officers regularly refuse to allow inmates to make a phone call or access to a lawyer.
> They say prisoners are sometimes beaten and coerced into signing confessions written in Arabic.


So basically, he argued for his HUMAN RIGHTS and was beaten up by the police and killed?

So that's nice then?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Moe78 said:


> Not sure what to think here. The guy deserved to get arrested if he was acting up in front of authority, alcohol is no excuse. Who knows what he did to get beaten up, probably something they're not used to hearing or seeing here but who knows?


So it's acceptable Moe is it? To kill someone because they were "Acting up in front of authority"? And it's OK for the police to kill someone cos they don't agree?

You have a very blinkered view on life in the UAE.


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## Confiture (Jan 9, 2011)

Remembering of course that those quotes are from the Daily Heil....


The only paper that should come with a "dilute to taste" just like Robertson's Barley Water.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

And 7days have removed the story

Mystery - National News

And Confiture, the fact is the guy died in police custody. FACT.


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## Confiture (Jan 9, 2011)

Not denying that, it's just that certain papers are well known for putting their own slant on circumstances and creating a context.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Confiture said:


> Not denying that, it's just that certain papers are well known for putting their own slant on circumstances and creating a context.


Wake up and smell the roses, brutality and violence is a way of life for the "Authorities" in the ME in general, the UAE is no exception.

Rose tinted specs, I'm guessing you've not been there too long....


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## Confiture (Jan 9, 2011)

You are right, just as I am about the Daily Mail.


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

About the same in a Tijuana jail... and as a nationality of any flavor you would NOT want to land in the kind custody of the Federale de Mexico... NOT that any needs to have offense at that... just the truth. Whether guilty or not. This is very sad.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Very sad. May his soul rest in peace.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

In The Sun too..

Incl pic

Cops beat Brit Lee Brown to death in Dubai cell | The Sun |News

He doesn't look like a trouble maker to me.


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

in short, you are missing dubai ?

Though a sad episode.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

rsinner said:


> in short, you are missing dubai ?
> 
> Though a sad episode.


Not at all.

And yes, a very sad episode that just goes to show why you should always register with the Consulate, so that god forbid anything ever does happen to you, be it car accident, muggings, run in with Police in general, they can at least offer some help.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

A very sad situation and timely reminder to behave but I don't get why would the Burj, of all places, would involve the police over a row with a chambermaid? Even if he was drunk most hotels, bars etc involve the police as a last resort, an F&B manager told me most venues don't want the authorities attention.

Regardless sympathies with the family and no doubt this will be hushed up while the UK embassy will be as ineffective as usual.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Being registered with the British Embassy means ziltch... take it from me who is registered and yet heard nothing from them during the crisis here..other than an email from London when our internet and phones were shut down..


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

That may be in Egypt, and I meant more to do with they know you're there, they have contact numbers for your family in UK in case say, you're involved in an accident, and they will visit you in lock up within 48 hours of you speaking to them, now if that had happened, and one of the 6 other UK guys spoke to the Embassy then maybe, just maybe, something would have been done and the guy wouldn't have died of his injuries.

Better to be safe than sorry???


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## wonderwoman (Nov 14, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> So it's acceptable Moe is it? To kill someone because they were "Acting up in front of authority"? And it's OK for the police to kill someone cos they don't agree?
> 
> You have a very blinkered view on life in the UAE.


Nope, you are right it is not acceptable to beat someone up and leave them to die,regardless if he had to much to drink,Human rights act probably doesn't hold much stance in Dubai, so this poor man's family will probably never see justice against his killers.


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

While the accounts in these papers may be true, some of it sounds fishy. The Sun claims they have talked to witnesses, one "prisoner" on a mobile phone. I didn't know they allowed people to use mobiles in jail? They also say two other inmates got his contact details off his passport and called his family. I don't know about UK passports but NZ passports don't have your contact details and I didn't know they gave you your passport while you were imprisoned? And how do they know these people were actually in jail with him? It could have been any random guy on the phone really....

While the cops may have beaten him to death, they clearly aren't doing anything to cover it up! What kind of cops are they?!

Anyway what I meant earlier was that the cops here are not used to foul language or other behavior that may make them react differently.

EDIT: According to that 7days link he was arrested in connection to an assault case? The Mail says he was arrested for swearing. So which is it?! Clearly we aren't getting an accurate account by the wonderful media.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

That being said Moe. As far as I'm concerned - he could have been brought in for murder and then threatened each police officer to kill him and his family ...

As a police officer in ANY part of the world - it doesn't give you the right to beat someone to death. If anything - as police officers - they should be trained to be professional in this scenario. I doubt in any police training hand book they are told or taught to do what they did.

This is just a bad situation and UAE should make an example out of this case to send a message to the police officers. If these guys get away 'with murder' - things will only get worst going forward.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Moe78 said:


> While the accounts in these papers may be true, some of it sounds fishy. The Sun claims they have talked to witnesses, one "prisoner" on a mobile phone. I didn't know they allowed people to use mobiles in jail? They also say two other inmates got his contact details off his passport and called his family. I don't know about UK passports but NZ passports don't have your contact details and I didn't know they gave you your passport while you were imprisoned? And how do they know these people were actually in jail with him? It could have been any random guy on the phone really....
> 
> While the cops may have beaten him to death, they clearly aren't doing anything to cover it up! What kind of cops are they?!
> 
> ...




British Passport has a section for contact details in the case of an emergency


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

So far all we know is the family was told he was beaten to death, they allow inmates to use mobiles in prison here and they allow them to go through each other's belongings for a passport with contact details which I've never known passports to have.

Cops are cops, we hear of assault cases and wrongful death trials everywhere. In the end who knows if this is true but there's clearly something missing.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/dont-fear-us-police-chief-tells-expatriates

Yup don't fear us, we'll just beat you to death


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

he Dubai police chief has urged expatriates to set aside their fear of interacting with local law enforcement authorities and report crimes.

Lt Gen Dahi Khalfan Tamim, speaking yesterday at the second Forum for Combating Human Trafficking, said making people report crimes was difficult, especially in a country with a large expatriate community, because people feared they would be interrogated.

"It is tough being a stranger in a country. One might put up with many wrong things carried out against them, rather than report it to law enforcement authorities as they are scared of being questioned," he said.

"We know this, as we tend to do the same when we are abroad - we do not want to come in contact with law enforcement authorities."


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

ahhh didn't know that! But the thing with that is, your contact details can change so does that mean you have to get a new passport too? Much harder than a simple computer entry!


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## wandabug (Apr 22, 2010)

Moe78 said:


> ahhh didn't know that! But the thing with that is, your contact details can change so does that mean you have to get a new passport too? Much harder than a simple computer entry!


No. it's hand written so you can amend it if needed.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Terrible news.

How many times I remember I watched in Canada TV shows of drunk americans/ canadians getting arrested while driving. I did not see police beating those guys. They knew these people were drunk and people tend to loose their senses when they get drunk, people say things they will regret because police records whatever is said.

How many times it happened and it will happen in our society in many years to come. Police officers know their job aint easy. They have to deal with different stuff and they cannot get emotional. They have to perform their duty: bring order and uphold the law

If the allegations are found true, that is, police officers really beaten up that brit and he died of his injuries. UAE Polcie headquarters have to re-train the whole staff. It is not admissible to police officers to loose control and take out on a guy. We count on the police to bring order to chaos.

The guy was already being punished by going to jail and paying millions of fines for each bad word that was coming out his mouth.

It is really a sad news


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Canuck_Sens said:


> If the allegations are found true, that is, police officers really beaten up that brit and he died of his injuries.


I don't any amount of "retraining" is going to make a difference until people (both offenders and police) are held responsible for acting wrongly.

If the police did beat the man, and he died of the injuries, they should be investigated *correctly* and reprimanded *publicly* (i.e. dismissal, jail, etc).

Anything else should be viewed as a cover up!

This SHOULD be the same for any government. And if UAE wants to be viewed not as a 3rd world country, they should try...

PS: I know it will not happen, but I can't stop dreaming...


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## remaaz (Apr 5, 2011)

What an awful story?

But to be honest, as I know most Dubai police (CID exactly) don't use alot of force with any kind of regular cases but in Sharjah it may happen.

As per UAE beating the arrested personel in NOT allowed but still some stupid police officer (CID) themselves are troublemakers ... (drinking, street fights, drugs, molesting .. etc).

For your informations, most of Dubai police & CID are not locals (yemen, Iran, Pakistan).

I know I'm a bit off topic but I hope it's useful


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

If the actual police offers involved in this are locals, not going to happen. There will be some sort of coverup and reason given as to why he died. If the police officers are other gcc nationals, then we will see them be held accountable, imho. If the beating squad to is made up of both, well... will be interesting to see how they bandage this one up.


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

Jynxgirl said:


> If the actual police offers involved in this are locals, not going to happen. There will be some sort of coverup and reason given as to why he died. If the police officers are other gcc nationals, then we will see them be held accountable, imho. If the beating squad to is made up of both, well... will be interesting to see how they bandage this one up.


Kind of irrelevant as someone lost their life and regardless of someone being brought to justice, a family still lost a loved for no reason. Dude was here on holiday as well... RIP.


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## remaaz (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes for you as an outsider, you feel that they are locals.
But for me I know the difference between them, Mostly, Iranies & pakistani ( with no identification documents) as they call them locally (Bidoon).

These people, where born here, grown up here and studied (if they did) here. So, they wear like local, talk like local and act worse than local. I don't say locals are angels, but those guys are worse and if anybody is intrested to differentiate between them.

S/He should ask his local friends  and they will laugh.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Just to clarify, mobiles aren't allowed inside police cells but there are payphones inside. If you have your passport on you it's not. Necessarily taken off you.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

It is indeed, at this point, irrelevant to the family and friends of the man who lost his life  I agree. But if was my brother, I would want justice and those people to serve time for what has been done. Time will tell how they are going to handle this. The reality is that dubai/uae is getting alot of bad press lately. This could turn into a pr nightmare if they try to cover it up. If someone says they called from a mobile, why would it be so far fetched that someone smuggled a mobile in? GCC's who do the dirty work (actual work) get paid very little. Isnt so hard to imagine a few hundred dirhams could get a phone passed to someone. 

Remaaz - Bidoons... Really harsh on them! There are some good ones and some bad ones.


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't get that. Maybe because I've never been in jail or asked anyone about it but you would think they would take all your belongings from you when they lock you up. Where would they have gotten the money to call overseas on a payphone? I would guess the police are monitoring those calls so why did they not stop the inmates? This sounds like criminal behavior by the cops involved but why have they not tried to cover their tracks?

Like I said, there's so much more that's not being said here

Has such a incident ever happened before? I am not sure but I think so. What happened in that incident if there was?


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## remaaz (Apr 5, 2011)

That's true there good Bidoon people Jynx, I don't deny that but I mean those who are working for CID. Most of them are sick (not all).

I was living with them and I know so many people who are working in Dubai police or CID. I'm talking based on expeirence. Honestly I don't want to talk more about them.

May God make this guy soul rest in peace.


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## Hassli (Feb 7, 2011)

gulfnews
Man detained over hotel tantrum dies of natural causes - police 

May he Rest in Peace...


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Moe78 said:


> ahhh didn't know that! But the thing with that is, your contact details can change so does that mean you have to get a new passport too? Much harder than a simple computer entry!


What the f* has that got to do with this topic?


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

indoMLA said:


> Kind of irrelevant as someone lost their life and regardless of someone being brought to justice, a family still lost a loved for no reason. Dude was here on holiday as well... RIP.


Word. Very sad.


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## Trevorbob (Jul 17, 2009)

Well someone had to say it :clap2:


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Hassli said:


> gulfnews
> Man detained over hotel tantrum dies of natural causes - police
> 
> May he Rest in Peace...


Are you flippin kidding me??

So natural causes then huh?? He was drunk and high - died of choking on his own vomit.

Well - we were all fooled!!


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Hassli said:


> gulfnews
> Man detained over hotel tantrum dies of natural causes - police
> 
> May he Rest in Peace...


That report really makes me sick (pardon the pun) I hope the autopsy is done in the uk and dubai hasn't cremated his body (sharia law states that the body must be buried within 48 hours of death)m.
He was murdered by the police, you all know that but you're happy to live your lives in denial, assuming answers you know nothing about (passports/telephones). I sincerely hope it's not your friend/son/brother/sistet that gets killed by the police state you all live in.

It sickens me that money is your god.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

What are you on about AC? There is nothing that we can do here. I do hope they perform a second autopsy because quite honestly, I don't think anyone expected the authorities to openly adnmit their mistake. At least I didn't. I hope his family gets to take him home and give him a proper funeral.


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## Trevorbob (Jul 17, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> That report really makes me sick (pardon the pun) I hope the autopsy is done in the uk and dubai hasn't cremated his body (sharia law states that the body must be buried within 48 hours of death)m.
> He was murdered by the police, you all know that but you're happy to live your lives in denial, assuming answers you know nothing about (passports/telephones). I sincerely hope it's not your friend/son/brother/sistet that gets killed by the police state you all live in.
> 
> It sickens me that money is your god.


You must feel very safe in the knowledge that you are in a safe country where this would never happen Andy.

Perhaps a quick search for "Ian Tomlinson" would help you here.

Police 'asked pathologist if Tomlinson's injuries were consistent with strike' | UK news | The Guardian

It sickens me that your perceived safety masks your ignorance.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

A lot of the comments in the Daily Mail are from Dubai Expats or former expats and many of them supported what happened with comments like "he must have done something really bad", or "i have been in Dubai brunching for 10 years and i never saw the police, so this guy was definitely in the wrong".

Its sad how expat life distorts mindsets of so many people .....


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

And as usual, a newbie expat, still living in a blinkered and europhic state (in more ways than one), think's they know everything. 
In the case you mention there is proper inquiry, you think that'll happen there?
Sad thing is, if it was another nationality it would never have been reported.
The UAE is a stinking police state, it's all false, the sooner you realise that the bettet,
As for you pamela810, what can I say?


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## Trevorbob (Jul 17, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> And as usual, a newbie expat, still living in a blinkered and europhic state (in more ways than one), think's they know everything.
> In the case you mention there is proper inquiry, you think that'll happen there?
> Sad thing is, if it was another nationality it would never have been reported.
> The UAE is a stinking police state, it's all false, the sooner you realise that the bettet,
> As for you pamela810, what can I say?


A 'proper inquiry'. You'll find that the same punishment is given to the British police that is given to the Dubai Police - i.e, no punishment. I'm in no way saying it is right obviously.

The west is much better at giving their public what they want in the form of inquiries and such, but the result is much the same. The Middle East will catch up sooner or later and start playing the spin game.

Also, i may be an expat newbie on this forum, but i am in no way new to this country.


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## cami (Aug 11, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> And as usual, a newbie expat, still living in a blinkered and europhic state (in more ways than one), think's they know everything.
> In the case you mention there is proper inquiry, you think that'll happen there?
> Sad thing is, if it was another nationality it would never have been reported.
> The UAE is a stinking police state, it's all false, the sooner you realise that the bettet,
> As for you pamela810, what can I say?


shouldn't this thread be moved to the lounge? what's the point of all this?

we all know what we can and cannot do here, and what happened is a tragedy but not a surprise for anyone having any little knowledge of what you could do in an arab country. i wish the forumers who happened to have an opinion and chose to post here had not been accused of indiference and ignorance as to what happens here, in jails or out of them. we DO know. it's the local way, or the highway. those who have chosen the highway should not go off at those who still choose to live the local way. statements such as "money is your god" are utterly insensitive when thinking we all are here to evade taxes and save to have a better life, now or in the future. who's here because they love the climate, the prices, and the lifestyle restrictions? 

if this thread raises awareness among the prospective tourists or existing expats in dubai, it's worth going on and on about what happened to the poor guy, and we can read countless articles on how the human rights are disregarded here. otherwise, if the media continue to "observe" what happens without doing something to prevent these event, it's useless.

i have not read one article in any british publication warning people they could end up in jail or worse if they do in dubai what they are used to doing in the uk. it is terrible that people hear about dos and donts via such articles only AFTER the event happened.

that being said, an awareness campaign in the british media would really help people understand they cannot come here and do as they please because they have no rights, especially when the british embassy here warns the kingdom subjects to try and stay away from trouble, be it drunk driving, making out on a beach and slurring when being caught, walking half naked in malls, or raising hell in a hotel. 

looking on and wailing never helps if you want to cause change. DO SOMETHING USEFUL ABOUT IT.

deepest condolences to the family... what a horrible way to go... 

sorry for the long post, i'm in a creative mood... friday morning after going out and partying wild. i'm not in jail though...


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

cami said:


> ............ if the media continue to "observe" what happens without doing something to prevent these event, it's useless.
> 
> i have not read one article in any british publication warning people they could end up in jail or worse if they do in dubai what they are used to doing in the uk. it is terrible that people hear about dos and donts via such articles only AFTER the event happened.
> 
> ...


I don't know what UK publications you read that you have never came across a story. There have been plenty of articles in UK press/publications about people being jailed in Dubai for multiple reasons as well as being held in jail while being "investigated", where in the UK such action/behavior would never register on the radar. Nor would you be held for any length of time in the UK without being formally charged while there was an "ongoing investigation" going on, which could take months, even years. As far as the "press" in the UAE, well you do know that there is no such thing as freedom of press here, don't you.

Since this whole fiasco started at the Burj Al Arab, and knowing that the security at the Burj are former SA military/police, it's possible that they could have possibly beaten this poor fella and through the beating he sustained injuries that proved fatal. I know the story behind these so-called brutes and how they came to work at the Burj, and by whom. Some of them could put the Dubai police to shame.


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## Bigjimbo (Oct 28, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> That report really makes me sick (pardon the pun) I hope the autopsy is done in the uk and dubai hasn't cremated his body (sharia law states that the body must be buried within 48 hours of death)m.
> He was murdered by the police, you all know that but you're happy to live your lives in denial, assuming answers you know nothing about (passports/telephones). I sincerely hope it's not your friend/son/brother/sistet that gets killed by the police state you all live in.
> 
> It sickens me that money is your god.


Hold the phone Andy, as someone who knew you when you were here you have no right to say that. Your were here for what? 10 years? Living in a dusty shack in RAK, or Ajmaan or whatever. You did that for love of the place? No you did it because it paid money. Now it makes you sick? Look at yourself before judging others...............

"He was murdered by the police, you all know that but you're happy to live your lives in denial, assuming answers you know nothing about " This from the Daily Mail!!!!


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## jason359 (Jun 17, 2010)

Bigjimbo said:


> Hold the phone Andy, as someone who knew you when you were here you have no right to say that. Your were here for what? 10 years? Living in a dusty shack in RAK, or Ajmaan or whatever. You did that for love of the place? No you did it because it paid money. Now it makes you sick? Look at yourself before judging others...............
> 
> "He was murdered by the police, you all know that but you're happy to live your lives in denial, assuming answers you know nothing about " This from the Daily Mail!!!!


Well said Jimbo. And he obviously still misses the place as he's never off the forum


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

jason359 said:


> Well said Jimbo. And he obviously still misses the place as he's never off the forum


EXACTLY
I wouldn't wan to see personal attacks esp. on a topic like where we all know that th truth is somewhere between the Sun and Gulf News. 
But Andy Capp, its like the pot calling the kettle black


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

jason359 said:


> Well said Jimbo. And he obviously still misses the place as he's never off the forum


Never off the forum? Take a look at the last time I posted on the Dubai forum....

Believe me, it's one hell of a long time (and probably for the best some would say...).



rsinner said:


> EXACTLY
> I wouldn't wan to see personal attacks esp. on a topic like where we all know that th truth is somewhere between the Sun and Gulf News.
> But Andy Capp, its like the pot calling the kettle black


Try the Daily Express, Channel 5, BBC, ITV, basically EVERY UK channel/newspaper etc.. They all say the same as me.

Coincidence? I think not.

As I said before, keep your rose tinted specs on and just pray to your god you don't get randomly stopped with even a small glass of wine in you....

Or maybe jason359 is one of those


> white mercenary workers who come here for tax-free salaries to do managerial and entrepreneurial jobs, parasites and sycophants for cash


And rsinner is one of


> Then there is a third category of people: the drones. The workers. The Asians: Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, and Filipinos. Early in the morning, before the white mercenaries have negotiated their hangovers, long before the Emiratis have shouted at the maid, buses full of hard-hatted Asians pull into building sites. They have the tough, downtrodden look of Communist posters from the 30s—they are both the slaves of capital and the heroes of labor. Asians man the hotels; they run the civil service and the utilities and commercial businesses; they are the clerks and the secretaries, the lawyers, the doctors, the accountants; there isn’t a single facet of this state that would function if they didn’t maintain it.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

I wouldnt be at all surprised if something very dodgy has gone down at bur dubai station. Doesn't quite ring true to me that the Burj al Arab would shop this guy to the police from what's been published. Must be more to the story I expect...

What the British press (and probably british people in general) still seem to struggle with is that the UAE is most certainly not some outpost of europe/ a singapore or hong kong or the ME. Appearances are very deceptive but those of us who've been here more than a few months realise that this is really the wild west. There's no proper legal system here (that works - I'm a lawyer and know..)

This death is dreadful and I feel for his family but if the same had happened to a brit in somewhere like africa or india or south america the press there would just report it in a very matter of fact way. Just the way it regrettably is with police custody in a lot of the world...

For some reason the Brits and the UK press have stucked in all the b*ll spouted here and believed that the UAE really is a sophicated modern country. They then act surpised when this kind of shocking behaviour goes on. Maybe this latest bad publicity will help foreign tourists decide if it's really such a great idea to visit the UAE. 

PS BTW I'm a brit despite the flags by my username


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

This is an important topic, but I would ask posters to be polite when posting or the thread will be closed. There is simply no need for vitreol and insults, even if you disagree with others.

Thanks


A few points:


Sadly, many expats have their eyes closes to the injustices that go on here. Just because you have not had an unfortunate run in with the police, it doesn't mean that others haven't.
Justice is not equal in the UAE and whilst things are better than in the past, there is far less transparency and accountability than we are used to in the West
Not all expats are heartless mercenaries. let's drop this tiresome insult.
Many facts about this particular case simply don't add up, but I doubt we'll ever know the real truth. Just that a man died whilst in police custody, which should not happen.

-


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Sunset said:


> I don't know what UK publications you read that you have never came across a story. There have been plenty of articles in UK press/publications about people being jailed in Dubai for multiple reasons



Agreed I have not been here long at all and have seen many stories. 

Namely the one about the love triangle (1 new zealander / UK and South African girl) that were jailed the week of NYE for fighting in an apartment/ sex, they are still in there I bet - I didnt see an update.

Also saw an article where a Australian girl was raped by her colleagues in a hotel in 2009 in another emirate was only released to the international press last month.

Also feel free to google 'Four-Year Old Indian Girl Gang-Raped in Dubai'


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh then there are the stories you never hear or who end up being just "rumors" since they don't get officially released by the press.

One thing's for sure about this, there's something missing in the story. The Dubai police seem to think they can conclude that he just suffocated or something yet how will they explain things when the body is returned to the UK and gets another autopsy done to it?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

pandabearest said:


> Namely the one about the love triangle (1 new zealander / UK and South African girl) that were jailed the week of NYE for fighting in an apartment/ sex, they are still in there I bet - I didnt see an update.


They're not. The 2 girls are now best friends and have been giving interviews/photoshoots for the usual quality publications.



pandabearest said:


> Also feel free to google 'Four-Year Old Indian Girl Gang-Raped in Dubai'


Is that the recent case where all 3 men were found not guilty because the evidence in their defence overwhelmingly proved the allegations were impossible, and it was shown that the mother of the girl was using the situation to try and get a job at the school involved?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Moe78 said:


> Oh then there are the stories you never hear or who end up being just "rumors" since they don't get officially released by the press.
> 
> One thing's for sure about this, there's something missing in the story. The Dubai police seem to think they can conclude that he just suffocated or something yet how will they explain things when the body is returned to the UK and gets another autopsy done to it?


He died of severe head injuries, Dubai/ UAE authorities refuse, RE****INGFUSE to release the body to the UK.

So that's OK then?


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## wandabug (Apr 22, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> He died of severe head injuries, Dubai/ UAE authorities refuse, RE****INGFUSE to release the body to the UK.
> 
> So that's OK then?


How do you know he died of severe head injuries?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

wandabug said:


> How do you know he died of severe head injuries?


Believe me, he did.

I've spoken a lot to many, many journalists about this over the past few days, as has my good friend Radha, from www.detainedindubai.org , sometimes wanda, just sometimes, believe me.


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

This is a middle eastern country that has been given the green card by the west to do virtually anything it pleases. The police work with impunity knowing full well they will be acquitted. The British government should do more to protect its citizens but they are not for various reasons. There's a reason why this should not happen in Europe, because there are laws that ensure some form of prosecution and problems will come out of such an incident. The police know little to nothing will happen to them because the British government doesn't want to apply enough pressure. If there were no laws or a system to prevent such incidents, they would happen everywhere and very often too.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Moe78 said:


> This is a middle eastern country that has been given the green card by the west to do virtually anything it pleases. The police work with impunity knowing full well they will be acquitted. The British government should do more to protect its citizens but they are not for various reasons. There's a reason why this should not happen in Europe, because there are laws that ensure some form of prosecution and problems will come out of such an incident. The police know little to nothing will happen to them because the British government doesn't want to apply enough pressure. If there were no laws or a system to prevent such incidents, they would happen everywhere and very often too.


Totally bud, I agree.

You missed one word.

OIL.


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

of course! But the thing is, the UAE doesn't exactly have a lot of it. There is a lot more out there in countries where this thing rarely happens or where the police are held accountable in some way. And yes I mean places in the middle east that have more oil. Dubai for example, has little to no oil left. It's Abu Dhabi that does and the two rulers don't always see eye to eye. The British could use that if they really wanted to.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

The UAE is the third biggest exporter of oil, I'm talking UAE not Dubai, the thing is, Dubai has so many more western expats than Abu Dhabi, always has.

In history Dubai tried it on with Abu Dhabi, Dubai tried (on borrow $$$$ etc.) and failed, then Dubai had to go cap in hand to Abu to be bailed out (Burj Dubai, oops no, Burj Khalifa, erm Emirates Airline is owned by Abu Dhabi...).

Dubai tried, seriously it did, and fair play to it, but it couldn't ride it, they gambled (hardy harem) and lost, and then needed someone to bail them out. Abu Dhabi on the other hand, waited and watched, and had shed loads more $$$$ behind them anyway.


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## DubaiCharmer (Jul 8, 2010)

*The Brown Case - news update*

gulfnews : Forensic doctors conducting autopsy on dead Briton

*I wonder how the case is gonna end , i hope i didnt break any forum rules by posting an update as i assumed that many people are following his case.:confused2:

His soul may rest in peace*


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

Ok I had a link to a British newspaper that said he probably came here to see a woman and that's why he was staying at Burj AlArab and could afford it. Also heard the British authorities have said they aren't getting involved and will accept whatever Dubai tells them! I still blame the British government on this, they could put pressure where it needs to be put if they really cared.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

Moe78 said:


> Ok I had a link to a British newspaper that said he probably came here to see a woman and that's why he was staying at Burj AlArab and could afford it. Also heard the British authorities have said they aren't getting involved and will accept whatever Dubai tells them! I still blame the British government on this, they could put pressure where it needs to be put if they really cared.


I agree that the British govt haven't been at all helpful with this case - as ever...

But how could they put pressure on the UAE? What does the UAE depend on the UK for (apart from us poor expat slaves)?

BTW the UAE certainly does have oil (and gas), AD at least which has 9% of the world's known oil reserves. Hardly insignificant is it??


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## Moe78 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes I did say that DUBAI has little or no oil, not AD and considering Dubai and AD often have a rivalry going, the British could have applied some pressure or arm twisting and convinced AD to push Dubai for something decent to happen here.

Let's be honest here, even if we can't come up with a reason how or why the British could pressure the UAE, they aren't about to tarnish relations over some idiots reckless actions. If the British government wasn't trying to kiss up to them like it seems they're doing then something could have happened.

It's one thing to be arrested for being drunk, having sex, giving someone the finger, but to die in custody under suspicious circumstances and your government not giving a crap about you? There's something fishy to all this.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

Moe78 said:


> Yes I did say that DUBAI has little or no oil, not AD and considering Dubai and AD often have a rivalry going, the British could have applied some pressure or arm twisting and convinced AD to push Dubai for something decent to happen here.
> 
> Let's be honest here, even if we can't come up with a reason how or why the British could pressure the UAE, they aren't about to tarnish relations over some idiots reckless actions. If the British government wasn't trying to kiss up to them like it seems they're doing then something could have happened.
> 
> It's one thing to be arrested for being drunk, having sex, giving someone the finger, but to die in custody under suspicious circumstances and your government not giving a crap about you? There's something fishy to all this.


UK govt have no leverage with Dubai/Abu dhabi/UAE so far as I can see. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

Terrible behaviour from the UK embassy of course but their brief's to support trade not to help expats. That's the truth from my experience as a brit. If your guys are more helpful than ours then lucky you. For the UK it's all business. I suppose if I were a us citizen and paying income tax here and the us embassy were so standoffish I'd be upset. 

But back to the op this guy was a UK taxpayer so his family should bully their mp for action.......


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

Another Update

Dude tried to throw himself off the balcony... Don't know what is true anymore.


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

"Dubai Police didn't beat the British man and we didn't put him into solitary confinement,” he said Sunday. ““*Dubai Police policy is known to be transparent and we will not hesitate to ensure our own officers face justice and punishment if we believe that they used violence against prisoners*."

Really ???


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Does Burj Al Arab have balconies?


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

Only the internal ones


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Well - that would explain the bruises and any internal injuries he would have ... he did it to himself!!

Case closed!! Bloody media believing some crazy inmates and this guy's family ...


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

I don't know if he did it all to himself, but I am kind of puzzled as to how the inmates called his family on a cell phone. Also, I would like to see if the UK autopsy shows multiple head injuries, but those injuries could be from either the police or the hotel staff trying to restrain him. 

The guy apparently needed medical attention and did not receive it. He should have properly fed and was not, so I think there are a lot of people to blame - not just the police.


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Wow it took them a week to come up with this? I wonder what they will fabricate to assist with the fabrication of lies next week?


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Jumeirah Jim said:


> UK govt have no leverage with Dubai/Abu dhabi/UAE so far as I can see. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Terrible behaviour from the UK embassy of course but their brief's to support trade not to help expats. That's the truth from my experience as a brit. If your guys are more helpful than ours then lucky you. For the UK it's all business. I suppose if I were a us citizen and paying income tax here and the us embassy were so standoffish I'd be upset.
> 
> But back to the op this guy was a UK taxpayer so his family should bully their mp for action.......


I feel the same wayas a Canadian. There is that famous guy who is in jail in guantamo bay...I am not telling the name, but everybody knows who he is.

The supreme court ruled that the Canadian Government MUST protect that guy because he is a Canadian Citizen. Guess what our government did ? They decided to ignore the Supreme Court and did nothing!!!!!!! I repeat they ignored the supreme court ruling what kind of serious government do that ? If you don't uphold the supreme court ruling there is no order of LAW!!!!!

So much for being Canadian. At least US would fly their ex presidents to get US citizens out of Korea and for that I give my thumbs up to US

Harper you suck BIG FREAKING TIME


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

http://www.itp.com/newsletters/click.php?tid=1361999&e=dbraggs=:hotmail.com

So many questions, just a few of which are:

1. If he wasn't in solitary confinement, didn't anyone notice him choking?

2. He died 6 days after his arrest, surely he must've been sober by then because he was in police custody. So how and why did he vomit and how did he choke on it. If he was sober and conscious, he would've just bent over while vomitting, it's a normal reflex action and thus not choke. Or am I wrong?

3. Bruising on the left side of the forehead, nose and inner arm seems like someone was holding him back while someone else punched him in the face.

4. Why do they keep bringing up the point that there was hashish in his blood? He could've taken it when he was back home. How does this tiny detail even contribute to what transpired in the jail cell? Does having hashish in his blood automatically make it ok for him to die?


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## Dozza (Feb 17, 2009)

Its common practise within the UAE Police forces to beat individuals until they confess to the crime they have been arrested for......FACT!

Being hit with sticks & getting slapped/punched is common practise.

Sounds like he was getting the above treatment but didnt confess, so it just continued.....Call me a pessimist if you like


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