# Living in Mexico as a Financial Strategy



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

If you long to live in Mexico, or elsewhere in Latin America, maybe the following will work for you if your spouse isn't onboard. My wife of 9 months, who I love dearly, told me everything I wanted to hear to get me married(didn't consider myself that great of a catch!). That included wanting to quit our decent jobs and move to Mexico and live on our 401k's until my pension started. Turned out she never really wanted to do that, began suggesting living in Kansas City area where her kids are immediately after we married, throwing out big hints to that effect all the way to San Miguel de Allende, and 9 days after arrival we were back in the States. We compromised and are now in Arizona until my pension starts, then back to Kansas City. Well I came up with something so logical even she agrees it would be a good idea. When we're 62, we're the same age, we'll both take Social Security and live somewhere very affordable. During that time my entire pension will go on her house to pay it off. She just put a renter in it so 10 years from now it won't take too long to pay it off. Just another point to ponder, living in Latin America to make your retirement in the States more affordable. Even if you choose to not return to the States, you could use this strategy to pay off a house and live on the rental income, which will certainly pay you better than what banks are offering these days.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Does anyone else have the feeling that someone we know should run away now?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Does anyone else have the feeling that someone we know should run away now?


I had to bite my tongue when reading the OP's post . . .


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

vantexan said:


> ..... My wife of 9 months, who I love dearly, told me everything I wanted to hear to get me married(didn't consider myself that great of a catch!). That included wanting to quit our decent jobs and move to Mexico and live on our 401k's until my pension started. Turned out she never really wanted to do that,........
> 
> ...... Well I came up with something so logical even she agrees it would be a good idea. When we're 62, we're the same age, we'll both take Social Security and live somewhere very affordable..... .


Wait, What?, anyone else thinking what I am thinking?:confused2:
Fool you once, shame on you, fool you twice, shame on her.


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## Newwmexpat (May 19, 2014)

I'm sure she's a wonderful lady and a great catch, but have you ever gone to a car dealer for a 70% off deal of the car you want only to find out that "the person in front of you got the last one BUT we have this great other car over here?" This sounds a little bait and switchy to me?!?! YMMV


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

Why did you leave after 9 days? PS, I moved from KC to Mexico.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

BirthAbroad said:


> Why did you leave after 9 days? PS, I moved from KC to Mexico.


His new wife was unhappy here.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

I don't doubt there are many economic refugees from the USA, living in Mexico.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Ever seen anyone with their wedding ring through their nose?
the only way this guy is moving to anywhere in Latin America 
will be after the divorce............*LOL*


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> I don't doubt there are many economic refugees from the USA, living in Mexico.


I guess you could count me among them. With my modest retirement supplemented by occasional teaching and editing work, I can live quite comfortably in Mexico. If I were back in the States, I'd probably still be working full-time and wouldn't have a comfortable life at all!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Reality check: this poor fella posted before about his situation in some detail. He wouldn't be the first, nor the last, man or woman who discovered that promises and preferences shared before the wedding have a way of disappearing later.
Sounds like this is the case. Kansas forever.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> ......If I were back in the States, I'd probably still be working full-time and wouldn't have a comfortable life at all!


And things are only getting worse for "baby boomers" , not just in the U.S, but Canada as well, which overall, is even more expensive.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> And things are only getting worse for "baby boomers" , not just in the U.S, but Canada as well, which overall, is even more expensive.


It's not so much that the cost-of-living keeps going up and up NOB, it's more like my two pensions are very small, and I have no property in the States that I could sell to help finance my retirement.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> His new wife was unhappy here.


And there in lies the main reason for everyone involved, to not just visit, but actually live in an area for a while before committing to moving there for good, and especially before buying property, no matter where it is or what attracted you there. 

Case in point, a few years ago, an RCMP (police) officer moved into our neighbourhood in Duncan BC, Canada, They had just got married, and this was his first posting after training, they were from a small, French speaking town in Quebec. He spoke both English and French, but his wife, who had never set foot outside of Quebec, spoke NO English, (as is the case with a lot of people in Quebec) and she could not, (or would not) adapt to the English speaking society that is BC and most of Canada outside Quebec. After about 6 months we noticed she wasn't around anymore, turns out she moved back to Quebec and they are now divorced.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

There is no way we could live in the USA at anything near the quality of life we have in Mexico, though we still have to be frugal.
Back in 1998-2001, we were OK in the USA and Canada, enjoying our motorhome travels and seeing parts of both countries in the best seasons. We also visited Mexico by bus and again by car, and became hooked. Now, since SS and retirment have hardly increased, while inflation has doubled and quadrupled prices, we would be economic refugees if we were making the move now; but, we are already here, so we do not qualify, do we?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

gringotim said:


> And things are only getting worse for "baby boomers" , not just in the U.S, but Canada as well, which overall, is even more expensive.


I'm not so certain things are "getting worse for "baby boomers"". It's getting worse for baby boomers who, for whatever reason, aren't financially prepared for retirement. You can buy fine retirement homes for under US$30,000-$50,000 in warm weather climates in the USa which are superior to what you can get in similar types of communities in Mexico, from what I'm observing. And there are all sorts of discounts/services for retirees in many areas of the USA. Certain things are less expensive in Mexico, but on balance ... I'm not so certain living in Mexico is less expensive than what many retirees can live for in the USA. Now, if someone wants to live like a poor Mexican lives ... that's certainly possible to do ... in Mexico. The question would be would the expat/person be happy living at that level. But I think, overall, baby boomers probably aren't doing as poorly/badly as some people think.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Where in the U.S. can you buy "fine retirement homes" for 30K to 50K?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> Certain things are less expensive in Mexico, but on balance ... I'm not so certain living in Mexico is less expensive than what many retirees can live for in the USA. Now, if someone wants to live like a poor Mexican lives ... that's certainly possible to do ... in Mexico. The question would be would the expat/person be happy living at that level. But I think, overall, baby boomers probably aren't doing as poorly/badly as some people think.


I'm certainly not living here like a "poor Mexican", but I would be living like a "poor American" if circumstances forced me to move back to the States!


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

lagoloo said:


> Where in the U.S. can you buy "fine retirement homes" for 30K to 50K?


Chicago; Boca Raton, Fl; West Palm Beach, FL; Clearwater, FL; Green Valley, AZ ... to name just a few places with which I have some familiarity.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> I'm not so certain things are "getting worse for "baby boomers"". It's getting worse for baby boomers who, for whatever reason, aren't financially prepared for retirement. You can buy fine retirement homes for under US$30,000-$50,000 in warm weather climates in the USa which are superior to what you can get in similar types of communities in Mexico, from what I'm observing. And there are all sorts of discounts/services for retirees in many areas of the USA. Certain things are less expensive in Mexico, but on balance ... I'm not so certain living in Mexico is less expensive than what many retirees can live for in the USA. Now, if someone wants to live like a poor Mexican lives ... that's certainly possible to do ... in Mexico. The question would be would the expat/person be happy living at that level. But I think, overall, baby boomers probably aren't doing as poorly/badly as some people think.


We could have lived very nicely for $1000 a month in San Miguel. Pretty hard to have that quality of life in the U.S. for that amount. Of course if one's idea of fun involves alot of drinking, dining out at top restaurants, taking trips, shopping sprees, etc then costs can be exponentially higher. It's not always the poor retiree who has trouble living on a budget, he's always done that. It's the well off who have certain expectations who can't rein in the spending once the high work income stops.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Cynicism aside, I've made it clear to my wife if we don't do this, living overseas to pay off the house, I will be heading south every winter to get out of the cold. With or without her. I think my idea to pay off the house by living somewhere cheaper has merit. Hope it gives some readers here food for thought.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> Chicago; Boca Raton, Fl; West Palm Beach, FL; Clearwater, FL; Green Valley, AZ ... to name just a few places with which I have some familiarity.


I've done alot of research on affordable places and none of those would rate "affordable" without substantial income. One of the State's biggest problems is a lack of good public transport. Owning a car immediately makes doing without a car in Mexico a much more affordable lifestyle.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Once YOU have paid off HER house, will she change the rules again???????
Go south, young man.........and stay.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

In 1963, my parents bought a then, 20 yr old, 900 sq ft house on 2 acres for $9000 Canadian, and that was just outside the then really small city of Duncan BC, the same house on only 1/4 acre, in say Vancouver would have been about $20k, and today would be worth over a million. In 1963 they put $500 down and the mortgage payment was $85/month, which was 1/4 of my dads income. They sold it in 1969 for $17,000, that same house sold last year for $349,000. That's 38 times what my parents paid for it, yet the same job my dad had in 1963 making $4500/year, now pays $54,000, but that's only 12 times more, no where near 38 times more the house is worth, and a typical mortgage today would be about $1500/month, which is 17 times what it was in 1963, and that's with the required minimum $17000 down payment (5%). (Might be different in the states). Not a lot of people in Canada can scrape together a 5% down payment, especially in places like Vancouver where average price is a million plus. These days it take 2, good incomes to even think about buying a nice size house in most anyplace other than Hicksville, or out in the boonies, and at least half your combined income to make the payments.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Once YOU have paid off HER house, will she change the rules again???????
> Go south, young man.........and stay.


Give me a little credit! The house will be in my name too.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I assumed that, and do give you credit for that point; however, from what I have gathered, it seems that you might not want to live there, now or in the future. Of course, I could be wrong. I am also assuming that you would not want to be an absentee landlord.


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## jepsie.2000 (Mar 27, 2014)

Vantexan, my wife and I are thinking like you. We plan on keeping our business running in Wisconsin (daughter will oversee) we will take a pay cut (cheaper in Mex.) and use the excess payroll to pay off debt. By the time I'm retirement age 54 now, I should be debt free.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Longford said:


> Chicago; Boca Raton, Fl; West Palm Beach, FL; Clearwater, FL; Green Valley, AZ ... to name just a few places with which I have some familiarity.


Here are some listings I gathered quickly simply to illustrate my point that there are purchase options for many baby boomers, other than leaving the USA. Of course, rents are on the rise and if someone is intending to rent through the end of their life then there's no telling how high rents in the USA will climb. One thing is certain: rents go up, not down.



Boca Raton, FL

486 Fanshaw L # L, Boca Raton, FL 33434 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

316 Mansfield H, Boca Raton, FL 33434 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

West Palm Beach, FL

61 Windsor C, West Palm Beach, FL 33417 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

199 Chatham J # 1990, West Palm Beach, FL 33417 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

226 Windsor J, West Palm Beach, FL 33417 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

Clearwater, FL

2965 Flint Dr # 72-B, Clearwater, FL 33759 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

1450 Heather Ridge Blvd Apt 105, Dunedin, FL 34698 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

Green Valley, AZ

380 S Paseo Madera Unit C, Green Valley, AZ 85614 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

329 S Paseo Pena Apt B, Green Valley, AZ 85614 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

403 S Paseo Tierra Apt C, Green Valley, AZ 85614 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

The challenge for the expat who is unfamiliar with Mexico before moving-down, or familiar with just one or two destinations/cities, is the absence of knowledge regarding how to ferret-out the nice, decently/reasonably priced homes and apartments in colonias they'd like to live. Learning those lessons typically takes some time. And that ... folks ... is why we see the recommendations to newbies to rent before buying anything.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> I assumed that, and do give you credit for that point; however, from what I have gathered, it seems that you might not want to live there, now or in the future. Of course, I could be wrong. I am also assuming that you would not want to be an absentee landlord.


We're absentee landlords now. Not a perfect situation, but beats trying to make money with CD's. Her house is in Overton Park, KS. If you are familiar with the area you know it has a lot going for it. Not a bad place to live. I worked in Kansas and dealt with a couple of brutal winters. Not Minnesota winters but I'm a Florida boy. 60 below windchill is pretty brutal to me. I've agreed to live there but I will go south in the winter. She sees the potential of getting her house paid off and is willing to live somewhere until it is. And isn't marriage about compromise? Not thrilled that we aren't in Mexico and I'm having to look for a job that'll pay less than what I had. But I haven't tiptoed around it, I made it clear she reneged on our "dream" that she was so enthusiastically for. It's made things much harder than it had to be but we're only a few years from my pension. I like to think I'm the sort of flexible person that people say you have to be to live in Mexico. Certainly not going to throw my marriage away because I didn't get everything my way.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

In that case, you do have your head screwed on right and will weather the storm, or storms. I wish you well.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> Here are some listings I gathered quickly simply to illustrate my point that there are purchase options for many baby boomers, other than leaving the USA. Of course, rents are on the rise and if someone is intending to rent through the end of their life then there's no telling how high rents in the USA will climb. One thing is certain: rents go up, not down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I clicked on the one on Flint Dr in Clearwater. About the same size as my small apartment, 55+ community co-op most likely means association fees for maintenance and or security. And just about everything costs more. Potential for hurricanes. Boiling hot summers. I grew up in Florida. It's crowded, humid, buggy. And really the only reason you see prices this low I'd due to the housing collapse that hit Florida especially hard. I'd rather rent in Latin America and have my overall costs much lower. Florida is one of the worst places in the country if you're without a car.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

It seems to me you're looking for paradise ... and it's more than likely you're not going to find it. Yes, Florida has hurricanes. Kansas has tornado's. Chicago has cold winters and sections of the city with high crime. Arizona has heat. And Mexico has floods and hurricanes and earthquakes ... and a wide swath of the nation is at war. Obviously, each of us has our own priorities list ... and it's not going to be the same as the next person in line. By the way, I, too, think I could live comfortably in/near SMA on MX$12,500 monthly; I have a soft spot in my heart for the place. Best of luck with life's challenges.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> And Mexico has floods and hurricanes and earthquakes ... and a wide swath of the nation is at war.


But not all three in one place, Longford. All I have to deal with in Mexico City is the occasional earthquake.  As for a large swath of the nation being at war, give me a break!


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Longford said:


> Here are some listings I gathered quickly simply to illustrate my point that there are purchase options for many baby boomers, other than leaving the USA. Of course, rents are on the rise and if someone is intending to rent through the end of their life then there's no telling how high rents in the USA will climb. One thing is certain: rents go up, not down..


Now that list is grasping at straws, I am guessing that most people that live in those types of place, do so because that's all they can afford, in which case they would never qualify financially for a visas for Mexico and most other places. One thing not taken into consideration when staying in the U.S, and yes, even Canada, is medical costs and waits for those without adequate insurance, which even in Canada can be problem, although not as bad as in the U.S. Moving from the U.S or Canada to places like Mexico is not just about the lower cost of housing, its the weather, overall lower cost of living, cost of medicine and in some cases faster and better health care, ie, knee surgery in Puerto Vallarta, if paying out of pocket about $9000 (CDN) and only a few days wait, in BC, Canada, its free if you have MSP, but the wait could be half a year or longer., and not all drugs are covered by insurance. And if you are in constant pain and can barely walk, 6 months may as well be 6 years.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

vantexan said:


> I clicked on the one on Flint Dr in Clearwater. About the same size as my small apartment, 55+ community co-op most likely means association fees for maintenance and or security. And just about everything costs more. Potential for hurricanes. Boiling hot summers. I grew up in Florida. It's crowded, humid, buggy. And really the only reason you see prices this low I'd due to the housing collapse that hit Florida especially hard. I'd rather rent in Latin America and have my overall costs much lower. Florida is one of the worst places in the country if you're without a car.


Not to mention in Florida if you settle in a small town or city away from retirement settlement areas and the coast you need to deal with local ******** and evangelical neighbors and their BS.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Fine retirement living? Don't think so.
Those apartment complexes look very unappealing. 
And Florida? Ugh.
Viva Mexico!!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=AlanMexicali;4019393]Not to mention in Florida if you settle in a small town or city away from retirement settlement areas and the coast you need to deal with local ******** and evangelical neighbors and their BS.[/QUOTE

Oh, I don´t know Alan. I was born and raised in South Alabama and spent all my summers in the 1950s on the most beautiful beaches on earth at Destin in the Florida Panhandle before moving to San Francisco in the 1970s amd let´s see. there are about 5,000,000 people residing in Alabama and that portion of Florida between the Appalchicola River and the Alabama state line known kocally as "L,A." (Lower Alanama) and about 7,000,000 people living in the greater San Francisco Bay Area and now we live in the Lake Chapala área which one could describe as an exurban community near Guadalajara wyth about 6,000,000 people living thereabouts and San Cristóbal de Las Casas in the Chiapas Highlands with maybe 200,00o people, mostly indigenous Maya, living thereabouts and the place with the most ******** and evangelicals in all of those places in your face and minding your business in a seriously intrusive manner is in Chiapas. ******** and Catholics and Ptotestant Evangeliicals are at serious war with each other in Chiapas and this isn´t just prosylatiizing - this is war with the acquisition of communitypower being the goal. 
Know your enemy._


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> Not to mention in Florida if you settle in a small town or city away from retirement settlement areas and the coast you need to deal with local ******** and evangelical neighbors and their BS.


Sorry, Alan, but you are way out of line here with that comment. I have lived in Florida and have a daughter, son-in-law, and 2 granddaughters that live near Tampa, and in neither place have I nor they found your statement to be true. I suggest you have never lived in all those places you describe, and do a disservice to the good people who live there. Please try to speak from first hand experience and that will help matters.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> But not all three in one place, Longford. All I have to deal with in Mexico City is the occasional earthquake.  As for a large swath of the nation being at war, give me a break!


Just as calamities of whatever source don't occur in total in one place - Kansas, as one example (no hurricanes, or high humidity ... but tornado's, for certain), not all occur in the same place at the same time in Mexico, either. Nobody has said they do. As for the war ... stick your head in the sand all day if you wish, if that's what you're doing .. but people who take the time to inform themselves about current events in Mexico know full well the extent of the terrorism, in parts of the nation. eace:


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Not to mention in Florida if you settle in a small town or city away from retirement settlement areas and the coast you need to deal with local ******** and evangelical neighbors and their BS.


I agree about small town living in some parts of the usa ... in Mexico or in the usa. Lots of 'crackers.' Mexicans, generally, express no less prejudice and discrimination than their neighbors to the north ... from what I've observed. Retirement communities in the usa, however, aren't typically found in those small towns. Not the ones where there are apartments I linked listings to, at least.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

gringotim said:


> Now that list is grasping at straws, I am guessing that most people that live in those types of place, do so because that's all they can afford, in which case they would never qualify financially for a visas for Mexico and most other places. One thing not taken into consideration when staying in the U.S, and yes, even Canada, is medical costs and waits for those without adequate insurance, which even in Canada can be problem, although not as bad as in the U.S. Moving from the U.S or Canada to places like Mexico is not just about the lower cost of housing, its the weather, overall lower cost of living, cost of medicine and in some cases faster and better health care, ie, knee surgery in Puerto Vallarta, if paying out of pocket about $9000 (CDN) and only a few days wait, in BC, Canada, its free if you have MSP, but the wait could be half a year or longer., and not all drugs are covered by insurance. And if you are in constant pain and can barely walk, 6 months may as well be 6 years.


Have you visited the communities I linked that you're referring to? I doubt it. Your description of the residents of those communities is so far off-base. Regarding medical care: let's hope you're not planning to rely solely on the government-sponsored medical care in Mexico. Knock the medical care in the usa if you want, and there are things to criticize, but I sense you have no experience with the health care system in the usa - which, based on my experience with Canada's system - is superior. "Cheaper" isn't always better. 

My observation garnered from reading expat postings to Mexico-specific internet forms and in face to face discussions with expats in Mexico is that there are many economic refugees from the usa and Canada hiding-out in Mexico, living under the radar - hoping not to be found out. Many living in Mexico illegally. They often seem to be defensive about their status and, given a choice, they'd be living in their home country. unfortunate for them, living where they really want to live isn't an option.

Many of us, though, have choices not pre-determined by economic distress. If and when we choose to relocate to Mexico ... it can be done for reasons other than distress. Choices. All of s benefit by a variety of choices. And not all fit every situation.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> But not all three in one place, Longford. All I have to deal with in Mexico City is the occasional earthquake.  As for a large swath of the nation being at war, give me a break!


I think he is referring to the war zone in Mexico covering many states, not necessarily including many people. I.e., basically all of Tamaulipas, Veracruz, Guerrero, Michoacan, Nuevo Leon, Chihuahua, Sinaloa, and large parts of other states, such as Zacatecas, SLP, Jalisco, etc.


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

coondawg said:


> I think he is referring to the war zone in Mexico covering many states, not necessarily including many people. I.e., basically all of Tamaulipas, Veracruz, Guerrero, Michoacan, Nuevo Leon, Chihuahua, Sinaloa, and large parts of other states, such as Zacatecas, SLP, Jalisco, etc.


There is a war here? I have not seen a single crime scene here in Chihuahua since I moved here 11 months ago. In fact it is significantly calmer here than where I lived in Kansas City, MO, where gunshots could be heard every night.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> Just as calamities of whatever source don't occur in total in one place - Kansas, as one example (no hurricanes, or high humidity ... but tornado's, for certain), not all occur in the same place at the same time in Mexico, either. Nobody has said they do. As for the war ... stick your head in the sand all day if you wish, if that's what you're doing .. but people who take the time to inform themselves about current events in Mexico know full well the extent of the terrorism, in parts of the nation. eace:


I lived in Kansas for two years and never saw a tornado, although some certainly landed while I was there. And met people who lived there all their life and never saw one. But they do get some serious winter weather that you can't escape unless you like staying inside all the time. And the scenery isn't inspiring either. 

Some people consider Florida paradise. When I worked in Connecticut many of my coworkers dreamed of transferring there. I grew up in the exact center of the state and have seen tremendous change. If you like entertainment it's hard to beat. The winters are mild. There's a huge retirement area next to my hometown called The Villages that truly is paradise for seniors. But Florida is still boiling hot most of the year. I wouldn't live in Tampico or Veracruz City either. I prefer dry air. If you like bugs Florida is your place. And at least when I was a kid Central Florida was both extremely religious and very redneckish. Florida used to have the biggest cattle industry east of the Mississippi. There was a rodeo just down the road from our house. It's not so much now, but Florida has many cultures and that certainly is one. Florida was about 5 million, maybe 6 when I was little. It's about 18 or 19 million now, and that doesn't include snowbirds. The peninsula isn't getting any bigger!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Sorry, Alan, but you are way out of line here with that comment. I have lived in Florida and have a daughter, son-in-law, and 2 granddaughters that live near Tampa, and in neither place have I nor they found your statement to be true. I suggest you have never lived in all those places you describe, and do a disservice to the good people who live there. Please try to speak from first hand experience and that will help matters.


I spend enough time in Florida to know facts from fiction. 

"Florida 
[year 1981 and they are still there with their hands tied but not their mouths]

"This past December, the Hillsborough County School Board [Tampa] voted 4-3 in favor of giving creationism equal time in the county schools. The decision followed several public meetings on the issue in which testimony was heard from both sides. Dr. Gish from the Institute for Creation Research was on hand and spoke persuasively at one meeting, and Richard Bliss, also from ICR, came to town for a newspaper interview during the period of decision. Once the decision was made, the board set up a committee of teachers, citizens, and professionals and ordered this committee to accept materials on how to introduce a "multi-model" approach to origins into the curriculum by the fall of 1981. The board's intent seems to be to have "scientific creationism" taught not only in secondary school science classes but wherever the subject of origins arises and at whatever grade level. The professional staff of the appointed committee has been ordered to write instructional material on origins so as to avoid use of creation texts developed by groups like ICR. The staff is on record as opposing this "multi-model" instruction, but their jobs depend on them following through with the ruling. Their approach, however, is to present the different models with fairness and according to the facts of science and the methods of logic and scientific inquiry.

As a result of this decision, several other counties in Florida are under fire, particularly in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area. John V. Betz at the University of South Florida in Tampa was appointed to the Hillsborough board's committee. He regretfully feels that the tide is turning in Florida toward introduction of creationism in Florida's public schools, even though a legislative bill is not in the offing."


New Creationist Bills, Resolutions, and Court Cases Appear Nationwide | NCSE


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

:focus:

Okay, so we've beaten-up Florida for a while ... now let's start on Arizona! Just kidding! Maybe it's time to move the discussion back to the center ... to the initial comments of the OP (in part):



> Just another point to ponder, *living in Latin America to make your retirement in the States more affordable*. Even if you choose to not return to the States, you could use this strategy to pay off a house and live on the rental income, which will certainly pay you better than what banks are offering these days.


Many of us probably know persons who live in Mexico and still have property/real estate in the USA or Canada. Some folks are seasonal retiree expats with homes in Mexico and who return to their "other" home in Canada or the USA during warm weather months in those climates. And yet others have income properties in the USA, the income from which they live on or which supplements their pensions while they live full-time in Mexico. There are all sorts of possibilities which can work for someone. Owning property in one country and living in another presents various challenges, though. And they're not always pleasant. Good planning and a support team "back home" can be essential elements for such long-distance/absentee ownership to work well. If a spouse/partner is part of the mix, both persons should be in agreement on the arrangement ... or I think it's destined for failure. Choices. If we're lucky .. we have more than one option to choose from.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

More propertis more headaches and sress so you and yourspouse have to totally be on the same page or you have another headache..


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Longford said:


> Have you visited the communities I linked that you're referring to? I doubt it. Your description of the residents of those communities is so far off-base. Regarding medical care: let's hope you're not planning to rely solely on the government-sponsored medical care in Mexico. Knock the medical care in the usa if you want, and there are things to criticize, but I sense you have no experience with the health care system in the usa - which, based on my experience with Canada's system - is superior. "Cheaper" isn't always better.
> 
> My observation garnered from reading expat postings to Mexico-specific internet forms and in face to face discussions with expats in Mexico is that there are many economic refugees from the usa and Canada hiding-out in Mexico, living under the radar - hoping not to be found out. Many living in Mexico illegally. They often seem to be defensive about their status and, given a choice, they'd be living in their home country. unfortunate for them, living where they really want to live isn't an option.
> 
> Many of us, though, have choices not pre-determined by economic distress. If and when we choose to relocate to Mexico ... it can be done for reasons other than distress. Choices. All of s benefit by a variety of choices. And not all fit every situation.


By "those types of places" I was referring to the low priced condo's you listed, NOT the communities they are in, and I stand by my comment, , that "most people that live in those types of places, do so because that's all they can afford, in which case they would never qualify financially for a visas for Mexico and most other places" ..... As for having no experience with U.S medical care, maybe I don't have personal experience , but I have heard enough horror stories to know how it can ruin someone, or even a whole families life and even their retirement, ie: $20k a day hospital bills, $500k hospital bills, losing their house to pay medical bills, insurance that won't pay for things they thought would be covered. etc etc. or worse, paying for insurance for years only to have the insurance company cancel it because they make a claim. I get over a dozen U.S TV channels on which I watch news, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX etc, from all over the U.S, (I'm watching KTLA as I type this), I probably watch more US news than I do Canadian news, and theres always stories about people all over the states who are in financial distress due to medical costs, a lot of whom had insurance that only covered part of the cost, or in some cases none of the cost, and always hear stories asking for donations to help them. And yes, I agree, U.S medical care is superior in a lot of ways, unfortunately a lot of Americans can't afford it, some can't even afford the insurance premiums, that may or may not pay for treatments they may need down the road. When we retire and no longer have our medical insurance paid by our employers, if we were to stay in BC Canada, based on the income we will have, we would be paying about $90 Canadian a month for the 2 of us, with no deductibles, no co-pays etc and that will cover almost anything that comes up, except for maybe some prescription cost. My mom who is 84 pays nothing because her pension income is under $22k, but still has to pay for her diabetic medication. The only draw back to the BC system, (its differs from province to province) is you sometimes have to wait months just to see a specialist, or months, maybe a year+ to have an operation if it isn't life threatening. I will bet its a lot more than $90 for full coverage for 2 , 55+ people in the U.S. And our main reason for wanting to move somewhere south is for the weather, not economical, that's just a bonus. 55 years of only having warm weather for 5-6 months a year is getting old.:yawn:


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

When someone refers to a place as a "paradise" for retirees, it seems to make an assumption that all retirees enjoy the same sort of thing. Obviously, no switch is pulled when we reach a certain age. We are still who we are with our varied interests and levels of health and sense of adventure.

A friend of my mothers moved into a U.S. high end retirement community. My mom visited her and concluded that the thought of being in a place where everyone else was old and there were no children wasn't "real". The thought of being expected to be part of a "bingo" culture was another turn off.
That, plus the fact that the major subject of conversation was one's health problems.
I agree. That's not paradise from my point of view.

Fortunately, we're not all alike. One person's "paradise" may be another person's "purgatory".
So be it.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> When someone refers to a place as a "paradise" for retirees, it seems to make an assumption that all retirees enjoy the same sort of thing. Obviously, no switch is pulled when we reach a certain age. We are still who we are with our varied interests and levels of health and sense of adventure.
> 
> A friend of my mothers moved into a U.S. high end retirement community. My mom visited her and concluded that the thought of being in a place where everyone else was old and there were no children wasn't "real". The thought of being expected to be part of a "bingo" culture was another turn off.
> That, plus the fact that the major subject of conversation was one's health problems.
> ...


You should check out "The Villages" before you are 100% certain about the above. They started with a very Mexican looking colonial plaza and architecture which they called "Spanish Springs". Each "village" is a particular type of housing. Some are townhomes, some are high end condos, some villages are very middle class houses, some are McMansions. When I left Florida they were about 12,000, now over 100,000 and growing. They eventually added a Cape Cod looking downtown area, replete with shops and restaurants, sitting on a large man-made lake, very nautical looking area. They had 32 golf courses last I heard, many designed by people like Jack Nicklaus, and have held major PGA and LPGA events. They have 2 very nice, large multiplexes. The one in Spanish Springs has an interior like a Spanish courtyard. They've brought in many major retailers including some very nice grocery stores as well as Barnes and Noble. Many restaurants and very good healthcare facilities. Every road has a golf cart path next to it. Horse stables and even a high quality polo field. There's really no reason to leave the place. Even a very nice bowling alley that has hosted the Pro Bowlers championship. I wouldn't say paradise for seniors lightly. It truly is.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Hi
I think you missed my point altogether, but no offense.
What you describe is a really nice setup for those who want what that offers.
Sounds like a great place for seniors who don't mind the isolation for the "other" world; who like U.S. style shopping and convenience.
Give me a Mexican village with all its inconveniences, miserable "fallen women" cobblestoned streets, mischievous kids, Mexican doctors with very casual offices who still make house calls, tacky decor being sold on the street, crazy traffic, cohetes, late parties and all the rest of what I consider a "real" life. In the Villages you describe, they would consider me a real PITA, and I wouldn't blame them a bit.
Viva!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

One of my best friends and wife live in a similar place in Tennessee. They love it. It has everything they could ever want. Extremely happy. I am proud for them. It's not for me. But, I respect them and their reasons for being there. And, most of all, I am so happy for them.


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

vantexan said:


> You should check out "The Villages" before you are 100% certain about the above. They started with a very Mexican looking colonial plaza and architecture which they called "Spanish Springs". Each "village" is a particular type of housing. Some are townhomes, some are high end condos, some villages are very middle class houses, some are McMansions. When I left Florida they were about 12,000, now over 100,000 and growing. They eventually added a Cape Cod looking downtown area, replete with shops and restaurants, sitting on a large man-made lake, very nautical looking area. They had 32 golf courses last I heard, many designed by people like Jack Nicklaus, and have held major PGA and LPGA events. They have 2 very nice, large multiplexes. The one in Spanish Springs has an interior like a Spanish courtyard. They've brought in many major retailers including some very nice grocery stores as well as Barnes and Noble. Many restaurants and very good healthcare facilities. Every road has a golf cart path next to it. Horse stables and even a high quality polo field. There's really no reason to leave the place. Even a very nice bowling alley that has hosted the Pro Bowlers championship. I wouldn't say paradise for seniors lightly. It truly is.


I think your description of The Villages further reinforced Lagaloo's point. When my mother first moved to Mexico she lived in a pueblo known as La Purificacion in the municipality of Texcoco. What she loved about living there was that her friends and neighbors ranged from having dirt floors to having the decent two story modern house he could afford bringing money from the States. I have also grown up with these anti-materialistic morals. I would never live in the suburbs or a "colonia encerada." Your description of The Villages literally makes me cringe.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

BirthAbroad said:


> I think your description of The Villages further reinforced Lagaloo's point. When my mother first moved to Mexico she lived in a pueblo known as La Purificacion in the municipality of Texcoco. What she loved about living there was that her friends and neighbors ranged from having dirt floors to having the decent two story modern house he could afford bringing money from the States. I have also grown up with these anti-materialistic morals. I would never live in the suburbs or a "colonia encerada." Your description of The Villages literally makes me cringe.


It's not for me either but it isn't a "bingo" lifestyle. It's a complete city with emphasis on seniors. It has provided many jobs in an area that most kids used to leave for lack of work opportunities. And it's shopping and entertainment facilities are open to everyone which made my hometown a much more desirable place to live. Most people aren't going to move to Mexico, but many active seniors would certainly find a place like "The Villages" attractive. Certainly some who spent a lifetime at the grindstone in northern cities with very cold winters might think such a place very worthwhile.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

And........isn't it great that we're all different and that we have so many choices? Spreads us around the world nicely.

When I was a puppy, girls were encouraged to marry as well as they could, be happy housewives and live in the suburbs.
For some, that worked out. Now, they're happy being near their kids and grandkids.

Me.....I wanted to join the circus, but that's another tale. (smile)


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> Hi
> I think you missed my point altogether, but no offense.
> What you describe is a really nice setup for those who want what that offers.
> Sounds like a great place for seniors who don't mind the isolation for the "other" world; who like U.S. style shopping and convenience.
> ...


My neighborhood is more upscale than the Mexican village you describe, but it is still a real Mexican big city colonia. One thing I like about living here is that when I leave my apartment, the people I run into on the street are all different ages, from babies being pushed in strollers to children to teenagers to adults and to those of "la tercera edad", which by now is the category I fall into. I'd hate to live in a community where I was one of the youngest people living there!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I live in Ajijic, which has housing all the way from big, expensive estates with all the amenities one could ask for to little places with dirt floors, and everything in between, within a few blocks.
We have a huge expat population, one of the largest in Mexico and the great thing about that fact is that it supports everything from a long established Little Theater to groups for artists and craftspeople as well as bridge fanatics, and much more. Many charities thrive and it's not far for the fishermen and golfers to get their "fix". 
...and then, there's the 55 mile long Lake Chapala: kayakers delight.
Many restaurants dot the area, with everything from taco stands to la de da special occasion places.

Meawhile, there's the climate, said to be among the finest on Planet Earth. Flowers bloom in profusion all year long. 
Paradise for seniors? For some of us, YES, it is.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

lagoloo said:


> I live in Ajijic, which has housing all the way from big, expensive estates with all the amenities one could ask for to little places with dirt floors, and everything in between, within a few blocks.
> 
> Meawhile, there's the climate, said to be among the finest on Planet Earth. Flowers bloom in profusion all year long.
> Paradise for seniors? For some of us, YES, it is.


I lived in Chapala for many years (14). I agree with you that the Lakeside area has lots of plusses. The climate can be outstanding for most of the year, but you did not mention the HEAT in March, April and most of May. We always left to return to Texas at that time, as it was cooler there and the bluebonnets were in bloom. In June, when the rains come, we returned, as that was the favorite time for us in Chapala, until about the end of October, when we again returned to Texas, where we enjoyed it more at that time, returning to Chapala at the end of December. So, for us, Paradise was/is a combination of Mexico and Texas, both offering what we want in OUR life at certain times.  Viva Texas ! Viva Mexico !


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> I live in Ajijic, which has housing all the way from big, expensive estates with all the amenities one could ask for to little places with dirt floors, and everything in between, within a few blocks.
> We have a huge expat population, one of the largest in Mexico and the great thing about that fact is that it supports everything from a long established Little Theater to groups for artists and craftspeople as well as bridge fanatics, and much more. Many charities thrive and it's not far for the fishermen and golfers to get their "fix".
> ...and then, there's the 55 mile long Lake Chapala: kayakers delight.
> Many restaurants dot the area, with everything from taco stands to la de da special occasion places.
> ...


And it's not a "gated paradise", which makes it even more appealing!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Heat? It's mid May and no temps in the 90's as yet. Also, our ancient casa has very thick walls and that helps.
If you can have two places to be, of course, that's ideal.
Enjoy!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

lagoloo said:


> Heat? It's mid May and no temps in the 90's as yet. Also, our ancient casa has very thick walls and that helps.
> If you can have two places to be, of course, that's ideal.
> Enjoy!


Thanks, we do !  Being a Texan, I am fairly qualified on judging "heat".


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> If you can have two places to be, of course, that's ideal.


Not all of us have that luxury. Luckily, I live in a part of Mexico which enjoys excellent weather all year round!


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