# Eid Holidays Announced...



## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

And surprise surprise, Saturday - Monday for Gove Departments, Sat and Sun only for private firms.

Gulfnews: Eid holidays for public and private sectors in the UAE announced


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## Del (Apr 29, 2009)

We only get Sunday off????

Isn't the Eid after Ramadan usually the 'big' Eid (as in, most days off)?


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

Hiya mate,

I think you may have made a mistake from the article.

It says "first and second of shawwal"

Shawwal being the lunar month after Ramadan.

Shawwal 1 is likely Sunday (possibly Monday depending on interpretations on which locations will be sighting the moon). It is impossible for it to be Saturday.

So it'll be Sun/Mon or Mon/Tues for private firms (provided this article is correct).

Hope this helps.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

M123 said:


> Hiya mate,
> 
> I think you may have made a mistake from the article.
> 
> ...


Oh, OK, so that means the first day or Eid is probably Sunday then?

Excuse my ignorance, I sort of looked at (in my western way)



> Abu Dhabi: Eid Al Fitr holidays for the public sector will be from *Saturday, Ramadan 29th (September 19th)*, until Shawwal 3rd, according to Cabinet decision No.17 for 2009 issued on April 26, 2009.
> 
> Work at government departments will resume on Shawwal 4th.


So that means Shawwal 1 is (probably) Sunday, Shawwal 4 (when they go back is (probably) Wednesday? 

So holidays are sat, sun, mon for normal employers and an extra day for gov depts.

Sorry for the inaccuracy.


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

No prob.

Ramadan can only have 29 or 30 days, which as a result means 1 Shawwal will either be Sunday or Monday.

A section of the world will see the birth of the moon on the Saturday night, but whether they will acknowledge that, or not is down to politics, interpretations etc.

Public sector therefore will be Saturday (29th Rm) to Wed (3rd Shwl) but if Sunday is seen as 30th of Ramadan and not 1 Shawwal, then they'd get an extra day (Thursday)

So for private sector, you are definitely off on Monday, and will either have Sunday off, or Tuesday off, depending on whether Sunday is Ramadan 30 (last possible day), or Shawwal 1 (Eid day) subject to the moon interpretation on Saturday night.


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## ExpatAl (Dec 9, 2008)

It's confusing as the holiday starts at sunset. 
Eid should start at sunset on 19th September 2009 (depending on the little guys in the desert moon spoting) so the following days are holidays / non work days. 
Sunday / Monday / Tuesday for government works and Sunday / Monday for private companies.
So with the the weekend the public sector will be closed for 5 days.


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## D-Xpat (Aug 29, 2009)

yawn... as always you are wrong!


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## Suey (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, you lot are confusing us, which is which? Maybe the educated knowledgeable moderators should throw more light here!!!


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

@Suey

Presuming that article is correct. (for the third time)

Private sector

If Eid is Sunday, then you have Sunday+Monday off

If Eid is Monday, then you have Monday+Tuesday off.


Presumably you are aware that the Islamic months are based on the sighting of the moon the previous night, which is why there is a possibility of it being either of 2 days

There are no other explanations! lol


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## Suey (Jan 11, 2009)

M123 said:


> @Suey
> 
> Presuming that article is correct. (for the third time)
> 
> ...



lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?

Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi? 

See more explanation needed…


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

Suey said:


> lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?
> 
> Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi?
> 
> See more explanation needed…


Ok, here is the explanation mate 

a) there are 4 main ways of the moonsighting being calculated, with different islamic scholars being used (it is not uncommon for different muslims to have eid on different days), ignoring countries just announcing it for the sake of announcing it. I've put them in order of popularity

i) The birth of the moon is sighted in the country the night before
ii) the birth of the moon is sighted in another country on the same horizon, or one that shares part of the night with this one.
iii) a scientific calculation, which will be based upon the 'possibility' of viewing the moon with the naked eye regardless of if it is seen or not (using astronmical data) in either the host country or countries that share part of the night.
iv) same as iii) but a calculation that also incorporates the possibility of using an optical aid, so "if it is possible to view via telescope anywhere in the world, regardless if it is seen or not, then the next day is the new month"


Now, bearing these in mind, always remember that any islamic lunar month CANNOT be more than 29 or 30 days due to the lunar cycle. Therefore, as Saturday in this country is 29 Ramadan, then Sunday can ONLY be 30 Ramadan or 1 Shawwal. 

So, whatever criteria one is using, even if it is a non-scientific one, once 30 Ramadan hits, then automatically the following day is 1 Shawwal (Eid).

There are moon charts online that show the geographic map and where the moon is likely to be seen.

I believe in the UAE and middle East tend to rely on viewing with the naked eye in the region, and if it doesn't happen, then once day 30 comes, then by default the next day becomes the new month.

If you want to get technical, the moon will be visible by the naked eye for the majority of the southern hemisphere esp in south america, and by telescope for a bit north of that on Saturday night. Therefore technically, the moon cannot possibly be sighted by the naked eye in this part of the word. this is where sometimes they'll announce it as a political statement (which nobody bothers to question). This means that by UAE criteria, it has to be Monday for Eid (but we'll see how it materialises).

I personally follow option (iv) therefore for me, Eid is Sunday regardless of any announcement here and I will not be fasting on that day.

It's a bit of an information overload, but hey, if it gives you a greater understanding, then might as well post it.

If you have any other questions, give me a shout.


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## D-Xpat (Aug 29, 2009)

Suey said:


> lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?
> 
> Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi?
> 
> See more explanation needed…


hhm cant we even predict the phase of the moon even in the 21st century?


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

we can, but there are varieties in application of the Islamic rulings as per above.

I suppose some people like to make a jacket potatoe in the oven, and some want to microwave it.

Moonsighting.com shows you the moon birth charts, but I would ignore their announcements and perhaps use my summary above if you want a better idea of things. The only announcement that'll affect our holiday is this country's application of the ruling (or political statement by being earlier than everyone, sadly this does happen, which keeps things a little unpredictable).


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## Suey (Jan 11, 2009)

M123 said:


> Ok, here is the explanation mate
> 
> a) there are 4 main ways of the moonsighting being calculated, with different islamic scholars being used (it is not uncommon for different muslims to have eid on different days), ignoring countries just announcing it for the sake of announcing it. I've put them in order of popularity
> 
> ...




So, from you explanation, scientifically, you partially agree with me that using the moon as the SI unit for Ramadan is kind of medieval, right?..lol….


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

Nope I disagree.

The lunar cycle is perfectly fine. Not much difference between using that, and using the solar cycle and sticking a leap year in to keep it on track! It's not like that method is any newer 

People can easily use moon charts and calculate with supreme accuracy whether the moon is visible or not, the reasons why some country's rely on the 'sighting' is usually more political and isn't necessary. I'm perfectly comfortable with Eid being on Sunday because the moon is scientifically visible in a fair chunk of the earth.

So I have some qualms about the manner it's delivered, but I'm fine with the concept


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## Suey (Jan 11, 2009)

M123 said:


> Nope I disagree.
> 
> The lunar cycle is perfectly fine. Not much difference between using that, and using the solar cycle and sticking a leap year in to keep it on track! It's not like that method is any newer
> 
> ...


So, you partially agree?..lol...


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

yea, for what it's worth lol


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

D-Xpat said:


> yawn... as always you are wrong!


At least I admit it when i am and try to actually GIVE something here.

You on the other hand are just a sad troll with the biggest chip on your shoulder ever.

I blame your parents - well, you are what happens when cousins marry.....


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## Del (Apr 29, 2009)

By the time you guys have finished, Eid would have been and gone!


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## Suey (Jan 11, 2009)

Finish what Del? I thought we had finished, M123 finally agrees with me...lol....
However, these Eid holidays require much spontaneity, don't they? I mean, I cant even plan my days off trip until the moon shows!!


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## ComS (Mar 23, 2009)

So hold on, to summarise.. only a few more days before the clubbing and the drinking starts again ?! Wooo  I'll be waiting on the roof waiting for the moon to show...

Also don't forget generally people go shopping for new clothes for Eid and also are out and about in the best cars money can buy / rent so it promises to be quite a night from what I've been hearing from people... whenever it is and also the ladies get a excuse for shopping- just another one incase any of you were lacking


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## Sumair (Aug 16, 2008)

The Astronomical New Moon is on Septmeber 18, 2009 (Friday) at 18:44 UT. This moon is not visible anywhere on September 18. On September 19, it will still not be visible in Asia, Europe and Canada. It can easily be seen in South Africa and South America on Sep 19. On the same day, with difficulty, it is possible to be seen in Western Australia, Central Africa, Caribbean Islands, Central America and very Southern areas of USA ( source moonsghting.com)

Most Probably the Eid will be on Monday. ( Allah knows best).


Anyways Eid Kareem to all.


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## Sumair (Aug 16, 2008)

Suey said:


> lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?
> 
> Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi?
> 
> See more explanation needed…


Dear Suey, 

Some explanations of moon sighting we already found some of them are listed below:

1) Why muslims prefer moon sighting instead of going 100% by scientific calculation:



New Moon birth calculations are based on observation by observatories and they are not just mathematical calculations. What they calculate today for any future date may not be exact, because the orbits and speeds of moon and earth changes slightly and may be different 5 years from now.



Science can give approximate hours hilal can be seen with naked eye, binoculars, or telescope. There is no exact answer, because there are many other factors that are more important for visibility such as atmospheric conditions, human optics, experience of observer etc.



It is true that on any given day new hilal is seen in some parts of the earth, and not others. This is due to curvature of the earth. Astronomical calculations for possibility of sighting new moon with naked eye or by telescope by its own definition (possibility) cannot be exact.



Time passed after New Moon Birth is called the age of the moon. Sighting is possible at different age in different months. The orbit of the moon is elliptical and in its orbit, the moon moves faster when it is closer to the earth, and slower when it is farther from earth. When it moves faster, the moon becomes visible at smaller age (like 17 hours), and when it moves slower, it becomes visible at larger age (like 23 hours). The main factor that makes the moon visible is the angle between moon-earth-sun. When this angle becomes about 9 degrees, the moon starts to be visible. How much time it takes to get this angle depends upon the speed of the moon in its orbit.

( Excerpts)


2) Importance of moon sighting in Islam

There are many injunctions in Shari’ah ( Islam) that are implemented due to the determination of lunar months. For example, fasting, hajj, and both annual celebrations such as Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha are all determined by the lunar months. The Gregorian calendar has nothing to do with such injunctions.

( Excerpt)

Now the only question remains is whether it is permissible to use scientific instruments or calculations to determine the first day moon.

I am agree with the answer that it is permissible to use scientific instruments but it is not permissible to use scientific calculations. ( Allah knows best)

Any question welcome.

Best Regards


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## rxydxy (Sep 27, 2009)

Hi there,

This is a really nice conversation .

Does anyone know about management consulting firms? Do they obey to this holiday? (given the fact that they are more globally oriented... US originated...)

I am planning to go for interviewing with some of them, but this whole lunar-sighting makes it nearly impossible to plan appropriately.

Thanks for any insights, and best regards,
rxydxy


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

rxydxy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> This is a really nice conversation .
> 
> ...



This particular Eid is over.

If there is a public holiday then ALL companies are legally obliged to comply.

-


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## rxydxy (Sep 27, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> This particular Eid is over.
> -


Hi Elphaba,

I thought we were talking about Eid al Adha this November. Anyway, thanks for your prompt and useful reply!

Best regards,
rxydxy


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

rxydxy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I am planning to go for interviewing with some of them, but this whole lunar-sighting makes it nearly impossible to plan appropriately.
> ...


It's not impossible 

e.g next Eid is 27th/28th November, so you can quite easily plan around that well in advance of the date.


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## rxydxy (Sep 27, 2009)

M123 said:


> It's not impossible
> 
> e.g next Eid is 27th/28th November, so you can quite easily plan around that well in advance of the date.


Thanks. When I have a look at wikipedia, there's stated for Eid al Adha: "November 27 to November 30 (calculated)".

How did you figure out the 27th & 28th?

Sorry for asking so much... why don't they just have fixed holidays?  Like Dec 2 

Best regards,
rxydxy


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

hi, it's based on the lunar months.

Eid day is on the tenth of that lunar month (that month is called Dhul Hijja), and the tenth is 27th or 28th November depending on the announcement of the first of Dhul Hijja.

The Eid itself is a 3 day period, which is why your information gives you 27th-30th, because it presumes that 27th is Eid day.

Hope that makes sense.


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## rxydxy (Sep 27, 2009)

*Thanks*

Thank you, M123!


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