# What a sad day for Egypt.



## mamasue

My friend, a journalist in Cairo was at the protest.
She saw the whole thing... the copts were protesting peacefully... the security forces just ploughed in!
I'm so sad for Egypt right now!!


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## kevinthegulf

mamasue said:


> My friend, a journalist in Cairo was at the protest.
> She saw the whole thing... the copts were protesting peacefully... the security forces just ploughed in!
> I'm so sad for Egypt right now!!


A worrying escalation, and if some of the security forces were killed as reported, they will be more uneasy at the next set of demonstrations & therefore the greater chance of force being used and restraint going out of the window, not good


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## MaidenScotland

I actually heard about the demonstrations from a muslim friend in Maadi (I was at the back of my apartment so could not see anything from there) she phoned to see if I was ok , she told me that the Copts would be blamed although they were innocent as it was the army who just plowed in with no regard for anyone.


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## MaidenScotland

Egypt's PM has appealed for calm after 24 people were killed as clashes between Coptic Christians and security forces escalated into full-scale riots.

The violence broke out after a protest in Cairo against an attack on a church in Aswan province last week, with Muslims joining in on both sides.

PM Essam Sharaf said discord between Muslims and Christians in Egypt was "a threat to the country's security".

His comments came after an emergency cabinet meeting.

A nighttime curfew was lifted at 07:00 local time (05:00 GMT).

Speaking in a televised address after touring the area where the clashes had occurred late on Sunday, Mr Sharaf said: "The most serious threat to the country's security is tampering with national unity, and the stirring of discord between Muslim and Christian sons of Egypt."

Continue reading the main story
Analysis


Yolande Knell
BBC News, Cairo
Sectarian tensions were on the rise in Egypt even before the fall of President Hosni Mubarak. But now they appear to have become much worse in the chaos of political transition.

Christians - who make up about 10% of the population - say they're worried about increasing shows of strength by ultraconservative Muslims.

With parliamentary elections due next month - the pressure is now on to reassure all Egyptians their voices will be heard - and to restore order.

He added that such violence - the worst in Egypt since President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in February - was also "tampering with the relationship between the people and the army".


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## RPC

MaidenScotland said:


> Egypt's PM has appealed for calm after 24 people were killed as clashes between Coptic Christians and security forces escalated into full-scale riots.
> 
> The violence broke out after a protest in Cairo against an attack on a church in Aswan province last week, with Muslims joining in on both sides.
> 
> PM Essam Sharaf said discord between Muslims and Christians in Egypt was "a threat to the country's security".
> 
> His comments came after an emergency cabinet meeting.
> 
> A nighttime curfew was lifted at 07:00 local time (05:00 GMT).
> 
> Speaking in a televised address after touring the area where the clashes had occurred late on Sunday, Mr Sharaf said: "The most serious threat to the country's security is tampering with national unity, and the stirring of discord between Muslim and Christian sons of Egypt."
> 
> Continue reading the main story
> Analysis
> 
> 
> Yolande Knell
> BBC News, Cairo
> Sectarian tensions were on the rise in Egypt even before the fall of President Hosni Mubarak. But now they appear to have become much worse in the chaos of political transition.
> 
> Christians - who make up about 10% of the population - say they're worried about increasing shows of strength by ultraconservative Muslims.
> 
> With parliamentary elections due next month - the pressure is now on to reassure all Egyptians their voices will be heard - and to restore order.
> 
> He added that such violence - the worst in Egypt since President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in February - was also "tampering with the relationship between the people and the army".



I was told that copts were protesting peacefully for days exchanging water and food with the soldiers. Suddenly, from the back of the crowd a well organized group of protesters started showering the soldiers with molotov bombs and gun shots were fired to the soldiers killing some of them. This caused the probably confused reaction of the security forces that increased the level of violence. As always the truth is probably in the middle ...


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## DeadGuy

RPC said:


> I was told that copts were protesting peacefully for days exchanging water and food with the soldiers. Suddenly, from the back of the crowd a well organized group of protesters started showering the soldiers with molotov bombs and gun shots were fired to the soldiers killing some of them. This caused the probably confused reaction of the security forces that increased the level of violence. As always the truth is probably in the middle ...


The protests over Aswan’s “situation” started over a week ago, NONE of the protesters (Including the MUSLIM ones in there supporting the Copt’s cause) showed ANY aggressive behavior towards ANYONE since the whole thing started.

Yesterday the march from Shubra square was assaulted by the civilian residents of the areas where the march was planned to pass, the MEGA patriotic army soldiers and their officers did NOTHING to stop those assaults, or to secure the march, no nothing, but the march did keep going, and that did not please the civilian residents cause what they wanted was to end the march, so they started attacking the army soldiers but after planting themselves between the protestors.

The army responded................Think everyone knows what kinda response that was!

Few “newspapers” published “breaking news” about Hillary Clinton offering to “secure” the Coptic facilities, which did not help calming the Muslim crowds, and now it’s simply a clusterfu*k and tension is all over the damn “country”!

It's STRONGLY "recommended" to stay away from churches, crowds, or any areas where the "majority" are Copts, and I don't think US citizens would need to "wait" at their embassy's gates, but if you had to, then DON'T!

This is a good time for expats to start packing, specially ones with families.


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## DeadGuy

kevinthegulf said:


> A worrying escalation, and if some of the security forces were killed as reported, they will be more uneasy at the next set of demonstrations & therefore the greater chance of force being used and restraint going out of the window, not good


I'd love to see the deceased security forces' personnel's autopsy reports, I bet it would NEVER say that some of them were ran over by the army's armored vehicles 

Also according to the "latest" crap by the SCAF, if the "victims" are army personnel, then it's a court martial LOL! So now the Copts who survived the "Crazy driver" fever and the army's shooting contest will be facing that! Just perfect!


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## aykalam

Sarah Carr's eyewitness account of yesterday's events. 

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/503496


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## MaidenScotland

It doesnt say why but this is a notice from Cairo opera house, lets hope it is in response to last night.


Cairo Opera House declares mourning for the coming three days. Concerts will be resumed on Thursday 13 October in all the Cairo Opera House venues.


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> Sarah Carr's eyewitness account of yesterday's events.
> 
> A firsthand account: Marching from Shubra to deaths at Maspiro | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt


The funny part was the State television, showing footage of army vehicles chasing protesters everywhere while having "_We appeal the honorable Egyptians to come to Maspiro to support our Army against the Copts' attacks_" as a bold comment on the footage  It was kinda hard to decide what to believe, what I'm watching, or what I'm reading!

That had a great impact on the "well educated" majority of the country, now everyone thinks their "Islamic" army was under attacks of the infidel Copts, and now it's a "duty" to fight those infidels who are "executing the American agenda of turning Egypt into another Iraq"  Couple hospitals where the protesters' were taken to last night were surrounded by angry Muslims till this morning, cars that are believed to be owned by Christians were smashed in different parts of Cairo as well 

And it's really "Surprising" that the army officials have NOT managed to identify the casualties amongst their personnel yet, almost a whole day after they were allegedly "murdered" by the Copts, not a SINGLE name announced yet 

Anyway it's gonna be a rough night tonight for those who are in Cairo, it's strongly "recommended" to stay home........No one will probably listen if I said you should be packing AGAIN, but duhhhhhhh..........

Good luck folks!


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> It doesnt say why but this is a notice from Cairo opera house, lets hope it is in response to last night.
> 
> 
> Cairo Opera House declares mourning for the coming three days. Concerts will be resumed on Thursday 13 October in all the Cairo Opera House venues.


I believe the Egyptian government declared a 3 day "state of mourning", whatever that means


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> I believe the Egyptian government declared a 3 day "state of mourning", whatever that means


It means "Ye'tel el ateel w yemshy fi gnaztoh" :spit:


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> The funny part was the State television, showing footage of army vehicles chasing protesters everywhere while having "_We appeal the honorable Egyptians to come to Maspiro to support our Army against the Copts' attacks_" as a bold comment on the footage  It was kinda hard to decide what to believe, what I'm watching, or what I'm reading!
> 
> That had a great impact on the "well educated" majority of the country, now everyone thinks their "Islamic" army was under attacks of the infidel Copts, and now it's a "duty" to fight those infidels who are "executing the American agenda of turning Egypt into another Iraq"  Couple hospitals where the protesters' were taken to last night were surrounded by angry Muslims till this morning, cars that are believed to be owned by Christians were smashed in different parts of Cairo as well
> 
> And it's really "Surprising" that the army officials have NOT managed to identify the casualties amongst their personnel yet, almost a whole day after they were allegedly "murdered" by the Copts, not a SINGLE name announced yet
> 
> Anyway it's gonna be a rough night tonight for those who are in Cairo, it's strongly "recommended" to stay home........No one will probably listen if I said you should be packing AGAIN, but duhhhhhhh..........
> 
> Good luck folks!


What State TV did last night is nothing sort of incitement. And now Heikal has said that anyone spreading rumours about state tv will be prosecuted...WTH 

There was another protest on tonight from the hospital to Maspiro but I'm not sure how big it is/was.


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> What State TV did last night is nothing sort of incitement. And now Heikal has said that anyone spreading rumours about state tv will be prosecuted...WTH
> 
> There was (is, as far as I know) another protest on tonight from the hospital to Maspiro but I'm not sure how big it is/was.


Spreading "rumors" about state TV? :lol:

And tonight's march/protest is pretty big, God knows what's gonna happen tonight :confused2:


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Spreading "rumors" about state TV? :lol:
> 
> And tonight's march/protest is pretty big, God knows what's gonna happen tonight :confused2:


Essam Sharaf speaking live on TV now

Sorry I think it was a repeat from last night


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## DeadGuy

Since last night and the SCAF is advertising an "international" press conference that's meant to be held today (Was meant to be this morning, but still can't find any sign of it ) _to explain the "facts" about Maspiro_'s.........incident?

I could be wrong, but I'm "guessing" the main points the SCAF will try to emphasis on will be:

1- The troops assigned to "secure" the TV building had NO live ammo 
2- The APC's that ran the protests over was NOT driven by army soldiers 

Not really sure why or how would they advertise the conference by describing it as "_a conference to explain the FACTS about what happened_" BEFORE an investigation is closed (Or even started!) :lol:

God bless the democracy


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## DeadGuy

The SCAF IDIOTS are comedians!

I always felt kinda ashamed of being an Egyptian cause of the wide spread "reputation" of Egyptians and how low the majority of Egyptians tend to behave, but never felt offended of being called an Egyptian myself.

But today and after the HILARIOUS way the army officials ran the press conference I am ASHAMED of being a citizen of a country that got so little respect for people's mentality 

This was un fu*kin' believeable!!!!!


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## kevinthegulf

DeadGuy said:


> 2- The APC's that ran the protests over was NOT driven by army soldiers


I know that lots of people have drivers here in Egypt, but I think that Army drivers employing drivers to drive for them is stretching things a bit too far:confused2:


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## aykalam

kevinthegulf said:


> I know that lots of people have drivers here in Egypt, but I think that Army drivers employing drivers to drive for them is stretching things a bit too far:confused2:


The Egyptian army are a bloody embarrassment for this country, they have shown they are unfit to run the country and incompetent to do their day time jobs. 

"the idea of using force is not in our doctrines. We don't do this even in our battles" so how do they fight their enemy??? with brainwaves???:twitch:


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## DeadGuy

kevinthegulf said:


> I know that lots of people have drivers here in Egypt, but I think that Army drivers employing drivers to drive for them is stretching things a bit too far:confused2:


Think you've missed their "point", what they were trying to make people believe is that the idiots who were driving the army's APC's when it was running the protesters over were those who are _executing the foreign agendas_, NOT the army personnel 

So what they kept repeating in this silly "press conference" was that the army wasn't shooting live ammo, the army wasn't running people over, the army was doing nothing, the poor, helpless, unarmed, scared army soldiers were only getting their arses kicked!


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> The Egyptian army are a bloody embarrassment for this country, they have shown they are unfit to run the country and incompetent to do their day time jobs.
> 
> "the idea of using force is not in our doctrines. We don't do this even in our battles" so how do they fight their enemy??? with brainwaves???:twitch:


The press conference was NOT live on TV, the videos shown were like a very embarrassing, low quality, OLD (JANUARY old when it comes to showing the protesters near Alexandria's Army's HQ!!!) video footage showing the side of the story they want people to believe 

It's a bleeding JOKE


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## MaidenScotland

A friend who is in the know told me 90,000 Copts have left Egypt this year.


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> A friend who is in the know told me 90,000 Copts have left Egypt this year.


 your friend reads Reuters


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> your friend reads Reuters




No she doesn't read it... maybe writes it!


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## MaidenScotland

Movie being made from the twitters through the revolution.. hopes to be ready for January 25


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> No she doesn't read it... maybe writes it!


well I would expect her to read what she writes before is published anyway  can't find the original article but this report was also on Al Masry Al Youm http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/499187


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## cutiepie

MaidenScotland said:


> A friend who is in the know told me 90,000 Copts have left Egypt this year.



How exactly did almost 50,000 Egyptians get residency in USA in the last couple of months?? I know it is difficult for Europeans to get residency visas / green cards for the US??


I can't understand realistically how 90,000 Egyptians have gotten visas in the last 9months to these countries, I know obviously some would have had visas from before and there are a lot of expat Egyptians in America already but this seems a huge amount???


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## MaidenScotland

cutiepie said:


> How exactly did almost 50,000 Egyptians get residency in USA in the last couple of months?? I know it is difficult for Europeans to get residency visas / green cards for the US??
> 
> 
> I can't understand realistically how 90,000 Egyptians have gotten visas in the last 9months to these countries, I know obviously some would have had visas from before and there are a lot of expat Egyptians in America already but this seems a huge amount???




Copts knew this day was coming and have been putting plans in place for years. 
Copts can ask for asylum in the USA as can homosexual Muslims..


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## cutiepie

MaidenScotland said:


> Copts can ask for asylum in the USA as can homosexual Muslims..



wow learn something new everyday thanks for info maiden!!


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## MaidenScotland

cutiepie said:


> wow learn something new everyday thanks for info maiden!!




Remember if someone is granted asylum they cannot return to Egypt.


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## iCaesar

i bet with my life that its a Plot by the army itself to take over.


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## aykalam

iCaesar said:


> i bet with my life that its a Plot by the army itself to take over.


take over from themselves? they don't need to, but they are definitely positioning themselves not to lose any privileges they have enjoyed for the last 60 years.


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## MaidenScotland

It's hard to believe but there are people who don't know that the army has really always been in charge,.


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## iCaesar

From where i see it , The next regime will be military , and stay that way for a while. 
they were in charge for the last 60 years , but people are calling for a civilian regime > they wont give it up , so they have to prove that its the only way to go. Think like the Egyptian !


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## iCaesar

I know the army has always been in charge. Thats what they tought us in school here. What i meant was they wont let go like the people want.


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## Sonrisa

ok, silly question, but if the Army is in charge...who is in charge of the army (read, who pays them). And to what extends will they go to don't let go?


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## MaidenScotland

Sonrisa said:


> ok, silly question, but if the Army is in charge...who is in charge of the army (read, who pays them). And to what extends will they go to don't let go?




They are already showing the extent that they will go to not to loose power, basically they pay themselves via donations from the west, the USA and UK pump billions into the military.


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## aykalam

Sonrisa said:


> ok, silly question, but if the Army is in charge...who is in charge of the army (read, who pays them). And to what extends will they go to don't let go?


In every country there is a defence budget, funded (oficially) by taxes. So if you pay taxes, you are paying the military to do their job. Same goes for police, public school teachers, etc.

On top of that, the Egyptian army are involved in all sorts of business, from road building to washing machines (yes really), and they usually employ conscripts i.e. forced labour as military service is compulsory.

And of course as Maiden points out US aid is their main lifeline in this country.

IMO They will go all the way to not let go. Just watch the videos from Sunday evening at Maspero.


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Copts knew this day was coming and have been putting plans in place for years.
> Copts can ask for asylum in the USA as can homosexual Muslims..


Not sure how could a homosexual person “prove” their sexual “behavior” to the super smart embassy personnel to be honest  But I do know that it is EXTREMELY hard for “ordinary” Copts to ask for asylum while being in Egypt (Specially concerning the US).

The amount of documents required to “prove” being qualified for an asylum (Religious asylum in this case) is ridiculous, and there’s no way an average Coptic Egyptian would manage to obtain those documents without drawing the lovely, friendly Egyptian authorities’ attention (Specially if the person REALLY needs an asylum ).


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> It's hard to believe but there are people who don't know that the army has really always been in charge,.


If you tried to ask any local who put Tantawi in command of the defense ministry in the first place you'd be surprised of the answers you may get


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## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> Not sure how could a homosexual person “prove” their sexual “behavior” to the super smart embassy personnel to be honest  But I do know that it is EXTREMELY hard for “ordinary” Copts to ask for asylum while being in Egypt (Specially concerning the US).
> 
> The amount of documents required to “prove” being qualified for an asylum (Religious asylum in this case) is ridiculous, and there’s no way an average Coptic Egyptian would manage to obtain those documents without drawing the lovely, friendly Egyptian authorities’ attention (Specially if the person REALLY needs an asylum ).




it happens all the time!
actually the best place for homosexual asylum is Australia


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## Sonrisa

Thanks, makes sense. 

I think the army sent a pretty clear message when they allowed for the israeli embassy to be attacked, kind of this is what happens if US UK and other donators make a fuss of us using force against the people. 

I fear that the army will get away with all their atrocities and noone will stop them, for as long as it can hold on to power.


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## iCaesar

The army is Playing chess using the People as the figures ,People are playing dice with the devil in return. =)


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## DeadGuy

Unconfirmed news about 4 unidentified dead bodies in the morgue, the DNA tests showed that they're "foreigners" (That's the Arabic word used to describe it).

Also it seems like the "government" is preparing for a few arrests based on allegations that some "priests" and "businessmen" fueled/funded the riots in Maspiro


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Unconfirmed news about 4 unidentified dead bodies in the morgue, the DNA tests showed that they're "foreigners" (That's the Arabic word used to describe it).
> 
> Also it seems like the "government" is preparing for a few arrests based on allegations that some "priests" and "businessmen" fueled/funded the riots in Maspiro


how can a DNA test show if you are foreigner? :confused2: excuse my ignorance but is that even possible? 

Unfortunately they will use this news as proof that "foreign agents" are conspiring against the Egyptian transition and blah blah blah

More xenophobia added to the mix and more conspiracy theories from the junta  this is bad bad news indeed


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> how can a DNA test show if you are foreigner? :confused2: excuse my ignorance but is that even possible?
> 
> Unfortunately they will use this news as proof that "foreign agents" are conspiring against the Egyptian transition and blah blah blah
> 
> More xenophobia added to the mix and more conspiracy theories from the junta  this is bad bad news indeed




Yes I think DNA can tell what race you are..but of course it is a set up, cant see DNA being ready that quick after all it takes weeks for anything else.


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## DeadGuy

Unconfirmed news about 4 unidentified dead bodies in the morgue, the DNA tests showed that they're "foreigners" (That's the Arabic word used to describe it).

Also it seems like the "government" is preparing for a few arrests based on allegations that some "priests" and "businessmen" fueled/funded the riots in Maspiro 

Great, bloody great 

Duplicate posts, it's my stupid connection, sorry


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes I think DNA can tell what race you are..but of course it is a set up, cant see DNA being ready that quick after all it takes weeks for anything else.


It sure was quicker then the SCAF's joke (Press conference)!

But it does not surprise me, funding, fueling, foreign agenda, executing the foreign agenda ---->foreigners!! Seeing a pattern in here? 

They probably were there making sure their agenda's being executed correctly LOL!!


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes I think DNA can tell what race you are..but of course it is a set up, cant see DNA being ready that quick after all it takes weeks for anything else.


Sure but race is not the same as nationality, right?


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> Sure but race is not the same as nationality, right?


You're in Egypt, do I need saying more? :lol:

It is whatever "they" want it to be......


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> You're in Egypt, do I need saying more? :lol:
> 
> It is whatever "they" want it to be......


You are not wrong


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> Sure but race is not the same as nationality, right?




They have only said foreigners and to guess that from DNA they must not be the same race as Egyptians. I surprised they haven't said Christian foreigners.


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> They have only said foreigners and to guess that from DNA they must not be the same race as Egyptians. I surprised they haven't said Christian foreigners.


I think the operating word here is "guess". But still, Egyptians are categorized as Caucasian. 

Anyway, the whole thing just sounds like a lot of bull.


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## aykalam

Revolution: Egyptians return to Tahrir Square - 60 Minutes - CBS News


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> it happens all the time!
> actually the best place for homosexual asylum is Australia


you can't beat the UK tough, you cannot be deported if you have a pet dog, that is equivalent to having a family life hence they can't kick you out.

:clap2::clap2:to the ukba


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