# Old pink european driving licence



## Tim Kawasaki (May 21, 2014)

I have been living in Spain since 1988 and using my old pink european driving licence which is valid until 2028. Yesterday I was stopped by a 'Policia Local' and given a fine for it no longer being valid in Spain. I went to 'Trafico' and they have annulled the fine, but told me that from 13th January 2015, we must have a Spanish driving licence or we will be fined 200€. The reasoning is that our old model doesn't include medical examinations and we are outside the points system. Thought I would warn you all.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Tim Kawasaki said:


> I have been living in Spain since 1988 and using my old pink european driving licence which is valid until 2028. Yesterday I was stopped by a 'Policia Local' and given a fine for it no longer being valid in Spain. I went to 'Trafico' and they have annulled the fine, but told me that from 13th January 2015, we must have a Spanish driving licence or we will be fined 200€. The reasoning is that our old model doesn't include medical examinations and we are outside the points system. Thought I would warn you all.


:welcome:

Thanks for the warning - however, this has been discussed on here before. I actually thought the new law was coming in sooner than trafico stated.

To 'exchange' a UK licence for a Spanish one, I understand it must first be the new style, plastic one.

So, your first step must be to get one of these from UK.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Tim Kawasaki said:


> I have been living in Spain since 1988 and using my old pink european driving licence which is valid until 2028. Yesterday I was stopped by a 'Policia Local' and given a fine for it no longer being valid in Spain. I went to 'Trafico' and they have annulled the fine, but told me that from 13th January 2015, we must have a Spanish driving licence or we will be fined 200€. The reasoning is that our old model doesn't include medical examinations and we are outside the points system. Thought I would warn you all.


The old style paper licence will cease to exist next year. You will be liable to a fine in the UK if you don't change to a plastic photo licence. As for medicals with a British licence, this keeps cropping up from time to time. I got a denuncia two years ago for not having had a medical with my British licence, but that was annulled.
I now have a Spanish driving licence. I happen to agree that everyone should have the same conditions as the citizens of Spain.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

You are lucky they annulled it ! If you are a resident you must now have a Spanish licence as from law change last year. Not next year. 
As Aron posted , they will be illegal in the UK as from 2015.

Snickpoh, no you can exchange any type of UK licence for a Spanish one.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> You are lucky they annulled it ! If you are a resident you must now have a Spanish licence as from law change last year. Not next year.
> As Aron posted , they will be illegal in the UK as from 2015.
> 
> Snickpoh, no you can exchange any type of UK licence for a Spanish one.




Really, completely against European law!

Can you please post a link to this (new) law as I don't recall this ever being the case.


The only thing said was that you HAD to change an old-style licence for a new one within a year. I don't see how Spain can ban people from having a European licence!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Really, completely against European law!
> 
> Can you please post a link to this (new) law as I don't recall this ever being the case.
> 
> ...


I think Gus was teferring to paper licences, not the photo card plastic EU licence. The law did change last year in Spain concerning UK paper licences.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Doesn't this bit state that it must be changed within 6 months of becoming a Spanish resident ?

La validez de los distintos permisos enumerados anteriormente, estará condicionada a que se hallen dentro del período de vigencia, su titular tenga la edad requerida en España para la obtención del permiso español equivalente y, además, a que no haya transcurrido el plazo de seis meses, como máximo, contados desde que sus titulares adquieran su residencia normal en España.


from here.

https://sede.dgt.gob.es/es/tramites-y-multas/permiso-de-conduccion/canje-de-permisos/espana.shtml

There used to be a bit on the DGT that specifically stated it. I thought that you could continue to use it until expiry , a plastic one that is, & then it had to be changed for a Spanish one.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Just looked on UK Gov. site & it is the same there. Must be changed from EU licence to UK within 3 years of permanent move. Less if you are Vocational licence.

" Coming to live in GreatBritain
If you have a valid EU/EEA licence,
you can drive any vehicle covered
by the categories shown on your
licence for the periods set out below.
Ordinary licences

Until you are 70 or have lived in GB
for three years, whichever is longer."

from here.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_068659.pdf

So it would appear the Spanish , within 6 months is true.


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## Tim Kawasaki (May 21, 2014)

'Trafico' told me yesterday that the law which came out in the BOE as of January 2013 has a two-year grace period and so comes into force on 13th January 2015.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> Just looked on UK Gov. site & it is the same there. Must be changed from EU licence to UK within 3 years of permanent move. Less if you are Vocational licence.
> 
> " Coming to live in GreatBritain
> If you have a valid EU/EEA licence,
> ...




It doesn't really matter to me but if the UK states "within 3 years" how does that make it true for Spain to state "within 6 months". I wish the European peeps would make this sort of thing standard.


The DGT link is actually (to me) not at all clear. European law states that a European licence is valid in all EU countries for the duration of that licence - why must Spain amend this law - how does it benefit them other than to cause them more work and hence cost? I guess it's all about where to document the points ...


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Tim Kawasaki said:


> 'Trafico' told me yesterday that the law which came out in the BOE as of January 2013 has a two-year grace period and so comes into force on 13th January 2015.


:rofl: About par for the course for them.:lol: The law was enacted years back & had to be fully implemented by the January 2013 date. The UK , Germans, Norwegians , ( & They are only in the EEA !! ) +others all managed to implement in full before the 2013 date so I can't see how the EU would have allowed the Spanish yet another 2 years when they'd had some 10 already ??

Still you've come out winning & get it changed before you fall over one that knows the law.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

It is not about Spanish law but about UK law.

If you are not a resident of UK (I assume you are resident in Spain as you have been here so long) your UK licence - whatever type it is - is no longer valid. Even for driving in the UK.

I checked this out with DVLA recently. This has been the law for several years. If you go back to live in the UK you can have your UK licence reinstated.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

DunWorkin said:


> It is not about Spanish law but about UK law.
> 
> If you are not a resident of UK (I assume you are resident in Spain as you have been here so long) your UK licence - whatever type it is - is no longer valid. Even for driving in the UK.
> 
> I checked this out with DVLA recently. This has been the law for several years. If you go back to live in the UK you can have your UK licence reinstated.


I don't think this is correct.

A paper UK licence IS valid in Spain but needs to be exchanged very sharpish.

A plastic UK (European) licence IS valid in Spain for at least 6 months but I believe it is valid for as long as it states on it.


If, for example, you come to Spain on a UK (plastic) licence, become Spanish resident and then go back to UK to live, then your UK licence IS valid in UK - why wouldn't it be? You may have to change the address with DVLA but that's all.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I don't think this is correct.
> 
> A paper UK licence IS valid in Spain but needs to be exchanged very sharpish.
> 
> ...


I am going by what DVLA told me - also my nephew who is a traffic policeman in UK.

If you do not have a UK address you cannot hold a UK driving licence. I was using my brother's address until they told me I could not do this as I did not live there.

When you go back to UK to live you tell them your new address and they re-issue your licence.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

DunWorkin said:


> I am going by what DVLA told me - also my nephew who is a traffic policeman in UK.
> 
> If you do not have a UK address you cannot hold a UK driving licence. I was using my brother's address until they told me I could not do this as I did not live there.
> 
> When you go back to UK to live you tell them your new address and they re-issue your licence.


So this is wrong then?

https://www.gov.uk/driving-abroad

Spain is very clearly on the list where a UK licence is acceptable.

There is a very clear clause to the law acknowledging that when resident in Spain, the address on a UK licence may not be valid - this is allowed.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

In the UK, if you have moved your address you must update your driving licence immediately. Failure to do so can be a fine of £1,000. As many expats still have a UK licence and they use a proxy address such as a relative, how can that be legal. I know little of the law in that respect as we have Spanish driving licences, but surely expats cannot choose a UK address when a UK resident must apply to have their new address on the licence.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Aron said:


> In the UK, if you have moved your address you must update your driving licence immediately. Failure to do so can be a fine of £1,000. As many expats still have a UK licence and they use a proxy address such as a relative, how can that be legal. I know little of the law in that respect as we have Spanish driving licences, but surely expats cannot choose a UK address when a UK resident must apply to have their new address on the licence.


Please read the letter from DVLA posted above by me (post #15) - it references the appropriate law allowing this to be the case. If you click on the image it gets large enough to read.

You will note that MANY European licences do not have an address on them so what's the point anyway?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> So this is wrong then?
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/driving-abroad
> 
> ...


If this is still correct, could I just ask, if you do what I do, drive back to the UK each year, surely once on UK soil I would be breaking the law and liable for a £1,000 fine for having an incorrect address on my licence. If the licence address was incorrect, could it affect my insurance.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Aron said:


> If this is still correct, could I just ask, if you do what I do, drive back to the UK each year, surely once on UK soil I would be breaking the law and liable for a £1,000 fine for having an incorrect address on my licence. If the licence address was incorrect, could it affect my insurance.


I'm not sure I understand. 

As a Spanish resident, it is acknowledged that your address will be wrong - this is allowed as shown above.


I think the point is that if you are stopped, you need to be able to prove that you are still resident in Spain.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I'm not sure I understand.
> 
> As a Spanish resident, it is acknowledged that your address will be wrong - this is allowed as shown above.
> 
> ...


Funnily enough, we are going over old ground. I have seen on Google, Expat Forum threads that have discussed this topic about UK driving licences. 

It just seems to me to be discriminatory to allow one group, expats, to have an incorrect address, yet fine others who may have made a genuine mistake and not updated their new address.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

If you look at my post number 7 & number 9 , you will see that a UK licence holder who becomes a resident has 6 months to change & an Eu citizen who resides permanently in the UK has 3 years & then must change. This is the basis of the January 2013 EU law.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> If you look at my post number 7 & number 9 , you will see that a UK licence holder who becomes a resident has 6 months to change & an Eu citizen who resides permanently in the UK has 3 years & then must change. This is the basis of the January 2013 EU law.


European law and the DVLA all say this is rubbish - nuff said.

We'll have to choose to differ on this one.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> European law and the DVLA all say this is rubbish - nuff said.
> 
> We'll have to choose to differ on this one.


Let me assure you that having dealt with the DVLA since its inception , nothing they say or do can be trusted. They say ,& threaten, many things but when confronted disappear & do nothing.

This is UK law.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_068659.pdf
3 years. 
Spain set there's at 6 months.
The concept of the European licence was for travelling . It was always the case that a resident was required to have the licence of the country that he lived in or at least have his home country licence validated by the resident country .

EU law states that if you MOVE to another EU country you can continue to use your plastic licence until its expiry . This is correct BUT it doesn't state " Take up Residence" & this is what allows all EU countries ;Spain;UK Germany; etc; to insist that licence is exchanged after a defined period.
It was obviously never the intention when the EU drafted the law but that is what has happened. Whole lot is a shambles.


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## jonboyspain (May 3, 2012)

Thank you for letting us know, I still have the pink card and we will hange it before the beginning of next year, it's handy to know that if you get stopped before hand you can annul it at trafico..... Was it easy doing this ??
Regards
Jon


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jonboyspain said:


> Thank you for letting us know, I still have the pink card and we will hange it before the beginning of next year, it's handy to know that if you get stopped before hand you can annul it at trafico..... Was it easy doing this ??
> Regards
> Jon


No the OP was able to annul his. Incorrectly; he was lucky in that the Policía Local new the law correctly & Trafico are not applying it correctly .
The pink one isn't legal now if you are a resident & hasn't been for years.
Any licence that has no renewal date on it is not legal for a resident to use. The law had to be implemented by 19th January 2013 , not next year. 

From original EU DIRECTIVE 2006/126/EC Article 2/2

" 2. When the holder of a valid national driving licence without the
administrative validity period set out in Article 7(2) takes up normal
residence in a Member State other than that which issued the driving
licence, the host Member State may apply to the licence the adminis
trative validity periods set out in that Article by renewing the driving
licence, as from 2 years after the date on which the holder has taken up
normal residence on its territory."

You have/had 2 years from taking residency.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

gus-lopez said:


> Doesn't this bit state that it must be changed within 6 months of becoming a Spanish resident ?
> 
> La validez de los distintos permisos enumerados anteriormente, estará condicionada a que se hallen dentro del período de vigencia, su titular tenga la edad requerida en España para la obtención del permiso español equivalente y, además, a que no haya transcurrido el plazo de seis meses, como máximo, contados desde que sus titulares adquieran su residencia normal en España.
> 
> ...


The quote above relates to the permissions listed for non European countries, not EU licences, where it clearly states they are valid.

In addition, it may be me, but 

"Ordinary licences
Until you are 70 or have lived in GB 
for three years, whichever is longer."

Means if I am 65 then I have to exchange when I am 70, not 68, as 70 is the longer.

The same would apply when I am 55, except it will need renewing at some stage before then, and I will have to renew it in the UK.


We have discussed this so many times before, and nothing has changed, except, as Gus states, if you have an old paper licence, then you have to exchange it within 2 years of becoming resident. Think about that in the context of the above statement. Doesn't stack up


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> The quote above relates to the permissions listed for non European countries, not EU licences, where it clearly states they are valid.
> 
> In addition, it may be me, but
> 
> ...




This is what I thought all along but then Gus confused me and threw doubt into my mind.

Are you saying that his post #21 is wrong and that we CAN keep our existing plastic licences until they expire? That is, they do NOT need to be exchanged within 6 months?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

CapnBilly said:


> The quote above relates to the permissions listed for non European countries, not EU licences, where it clearly states they are valid.


No the whole lot is read as one. It starts by stating What licences are valid in Spain & then it states the Conditions of Validity for all , EU/non-EU.




"Permisos válidos para conducir en España"

"Son válidos para conducir en España los permisos expedidos en países de la Unión Europea y el Espacio Económico Europeo (Islandia, Liechtenstein y Noruega)."

"Además, en determinadas condiciones, son también válidos para conducir en España los siguientes permisos de conducción:"

"Los nacionales de otros países que estén expedidos de conformidad con el Anexo 9 de la Convención de Ginebra, o con el Anexo 6 de la Convención de Viena, o que difieran de dichos modelos únicamente en la adopción o supresión de rúbricas no esenciales.
Los nacionales de otros países que estén redactados en castellano o vayan acompañados de una traducción oficial del mismo.
Los internacionales expedidos en el extranjero de conformidad con el Anexo 10 de la Convención de Ginebra, o de acuerdo con el modelo de Anexo E de la Convención Internacional de París, si se trata de naciones adheridas a este Convenio que no hayan suscrito o prestado adhesión al de Ginebra.
Los reconocidos en particulares convenios internacionales en los que España sea parte y en las condiciones que se indiquen en los mismos."

"Condiciones para su validez:"

"La validez de los distintos permisos enumerados anteriormente, estará condicionada a que se hallen dentro del período de vigencia, su titular tenga la edad requerida en España para la obtención del permiso español equivalente y, además, a que no haya transcurrido el plazo de seis meses, como máximo, contados desde que sus titulares adquieran su residencia normal en España."

"Transcurrido dicho plazo, los mencionados permisos carecen de validez para conducir en España, y, si sus titulares desean seguir conduciendo, deberán obtener permiso español, previa comprobación de los requisitos y superación de las pruebas correspondientes, salvo que, por existir un convenio con el país que expidió el permiso, sea posible su canje por el español equivalente."


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

gus-lopez said:


> No the whole lot is read as one. It starts by stating What licences are valid in Spain & then it states the Conditions of Validity for all , EU/non-EU. "Los nacionales de otros países que estén expedidos de conformidad con el Anexo 9 de la Convención de Ginebra, o con el Anexo 6 de la Convención de Viena, o que difieran de dichos modelos únicamente en la adopción o supresión de rúbricas no esenciales. ............."


No, sorry you're wrong on this one Gus. I think you,re just trying to make it fit your argument. The bit starting " Los nacionales " etc to the very end is a direct lift, word for word from Article 21 of RD 818/2009. Article 21 is the start of Section 2 which reads "Sección 2.a De los permisos expedidos en terceros países". 

This is Section 1 "Sección 1.a De los permisos expedidos en Estados miembros de la Unión Europea o en Estados Parte del Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo", where the articles talk about the validity of EU licences. 

The words from Article 21 only relate to Section 2, as I posted earlier. 



snikpoh said:


> This is what I thought all along but then Gus confused me and threw doubt into my mind. Are you saying that his post #21 is wrong and that we CAN keep our existing plastic licences until they expire? That is, they do NOT need to be exchanged within 6 months?


That's exactly what I am saying.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> So this is wrong then?
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/driving-abroad
> 
> ...


What is the date of the email in your attachment? as it is different to the information they emailed to me which said if I no longer have an address in Great Britain I cannot hold a British driving licence. They will not accept the address of a relative.

Also the link you have given for gov.uk is talking about 'Driving abroad' The last paragraph says

"*Moving abroad*
If you move abroad, check with the driving licence authorities there to find out how to get a local driving licence."


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

DunWorkin said:


> What is the date of the email in your attachment? as it is different to the information they emailed to me which said if I no longer have an address in Great Britain I cannot hold a British driving licence. They will not accept the address of a relative.
> 
> Also the link you have given for gov.uk is talking about 'Driving abroad' The last paragraph says
> 
> ...


All the DVLA site says is that if you move abroad you can't register your new address, & to contact the Driving Licence authority in your new country

it doesn't say that you can't use the licence 


so if that new country will accept the licence why would there be a problem? And since Spanish & many other countries licences don't have an address on them, an old address wouldn't be an issue in that country


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

CapnBilly;4049250 I think you said:


> The post number 28 of mine is the complete article from the DGT website, nothing removed/added which I posted the link to on post number 7.
> If there is a part missing, on the dgt link ,I.e.Where it changes to Article 21 section2, it is not on the website & reads exactly as posted. Including all licences holders.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

It's interesting reading all these postings. I too have looked at various websites including the UK government one and I'm non the wiser from the info. A quote from Mark Twain springs to mind.....never read medical books, you could die of a misprint.

I have read on websites that agree with each one of the postings, but as they are contradictory, surely one must be right. I would say this, people come on this forum for help and I think this subject is just confusing us all. Not only that, but it was discussed on here not so long ago!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

DunWorkin said:


> What is the date of the email in your attachment? as it is different to the information they emailed to me which said if I no longer have an address in Great Britain I cannot hold a British driving licence. They will not accept the address of a relative.
> 
> Also the link you have given for gov.uk is talking about 'Driving abroad' The last paragraph says
> 
> ...



I have just had it confirmed by DVLA just yesterday (I can send you a copy of the email if you wish).


> Drivers who take up residence in any other European Community/European Economic Area (EEC /EEA) country no longer have to exchange their driving licence, but may continue to drive using their own national licence for as long as it remains valid.





Aron said:


> It's interesting reading all these postings. I too have looked at various websites including the UK government one and I'm non the wiser from the info. A quote from Mark Twain springs to mind.....never read medical books, you could die of a misprint.
> 
> I have read on websites that agree with each one of the postings, but as they are contradictory, surely one must be right. I would say this, people come on this forum for help and I think this subject is just confusing us all. Not only that, but it was discussed on here not so long ago!



I think the only point that matters is one by the officials in Spain. DVLA can say what they want but at the end of the day, it's what the Spanish authorities believe that counts.

The problem is, even they cannot agree between themselves!!!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

The easiest way not to have a problem is to exchange it. If you are living here what is the problem. Yes it might have years to run but if you wait until then you'll definitely have to have a medical whereas if you change it with years still to run on it you probably won't.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

One fact remains, if you have a UK licence, don't lose it. You cannot apply for a replacement if resident in Spain. You may get a temporary one if you return to The UK but can only use that in the UK until you get your new driving licence. You can get a letter of entitlement, in Spanish I believe to enable you to change to a Spanish licence. That is why we chose to change our UK licence to a Spanish one. It saves any future hassle


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Ok, for what it's worth, a friend of my parents decided to exchange her UK licence for a Spanish one. Got all the documentation ready, went to Trafico in Malaga, waited for 3 hours to be told, no, you don't need a Spanish licence until your UK licence expires. Next one, a friend of mine and all his relatives who live here were also told the same thing but with one difference: they had to go to Tracfico and have a Spanish licence number stamped on the back of their UK licence. That number is then used by the authorities to trace where you live etc, for example in the event of an accident.

So in the end, who know what is true or not??


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

thrax said:


> Ok, for what it's worth, a friend of my parents decided to exchange her UK licence for a Spanish one. Got all the documentation ready, went to Trafico in Malaga, waited for 3 hours to be told, no, you don't need a Spanish licence until your UK licence expires. Next one, a friend of mine and all his relatives who live here were also told the same thing but with one difference: they had to go to Tracfico and have a Spanish licence number stamped on the back of their UK licence. That number is then used by the authorities to trace where you live etc, for example in the event of an accident.
> 
> So in the end, who know what is true or not??


Anyone can register their licence with Trafico, as you describe (and in fact you can do the same in the UK), but t is a voluntary process, its not compulsory.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

gus-lopez said:


> The post number 28 of mine is the complete article from the DGT website, nothing removed/added which I posted the link to on post number 7.
> If there is a part missing, on the dgt link ,I.e.Where it changes to Article 21 section2, it is not on the website & reads exactly as posted. Including all licences holders.


I agree it reads exactly as posted, it's your interpretation which is wrong.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> Anyone can register their licence with Trafico, as you describe (and in fact you can do the same in the UK), but t is a voluntary process, its not compulsory.


Perhaps I didn't write it clearly, but that isn't what I said happened!!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

thrax said:


> Perhaps I didn't write it clearly, but that isn't what I said happened!!


I read it that they were told they had to go to Trafico and have the "spanish licence number" stamped on the back. That's the process for registering a licence.


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