# Citizenship and Splitting Time



## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Hey fellas, my Filipina wife is here with me in U.S. now (20 months), but we plan to retire to P.I. in 2016 and split our time for a bit between there and here while my son's in college, etc, which raises a question thought y'all might know the answer better. Since we will have a child later this year, want to be sure my wife can get her U.S. Citizenship at the 10 year mark and wanted to know how much time does she have to spend in the U.S. each year of the 10 required in order to qualify? I know US Immigration pretty much will not let her leave for more than 6 mos at a time without apply for some sort of exception, but it' s not clear how long she has to remain in U.S. each year. Just want that option for her since our children will have that citizenship and in case the P.I. were to fall apart, especially after I'm gone. Thanks in advance.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Disregard the 10 yrs....miscommuncation. That'a 10 yr green card. She would qualify for citizenship after 3 years if so chooses, but wants to retain her Philippine citizenship as well.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

*Citizenship*



Nickleback99 said:


> Hey fellas, my Filipina wife is here with me in U.S. now (20 months), but we plan to retire to P.I. in 2016 and split our time for a bit between there and here while my son's in college, etc, which raises a question thought y'all might know the answer better. Since we will have a child later this year, want to be sure my wife can get her U.S. Citizenship at the 10 year mark and wanted to know how much time does she have to spend in the U.S. each year of the 10 required in order to qualify? I know US Immigration pretty much will not let her leave for more than 6 mos at a time without apply for some sort of exception, but it' s not clear how long she has to remain in U.S. each year. Just want that option for her since our children will have that citizenship and in case the P.I. were to fall apart, especially after I'm gone. Thanks in advance.


Your wife can get her US Citizenship in 3 years and have Dual Citizenship in 5 years. By having dual citizenship she can own property [land] in both countries. When and if you return to the Philippines she would return as Balikbayan and you would be her spouse here that accompanies her. There are limitations as far as how often she could leave the country [the USA] once she receives US Citizenship.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

*Citizenship*



Nickleback99 said:


> Disregard the 10 yrs....miscommuncation. That'a 10 yr green card. She would qualify for citizenship after 3 years if so chooses, but wants to retain her Philippine citizenship as well.


Both of your children will be US citizens and if your son was born in the Philippines he would also have citizenship rights here as well. Hoping that nothing does happen to you and you live a long time, but it the worst happened, depending on the age of your wife, she would not receive any widows benefits from your pension until she turned 66 years of age and remained in the states. Should something happen to you she would only get about $250US from the government.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thank you. My wife is 29, I'm 55. Yeah, I'l have to ck on the pension piece, as I'm in Fed Law Enforcement with mandatory retirement at 57. We have a pension we pay into, in addition to 401K- like- TSP retirement savings we have. W/ the pension, I can pay 10% fee per month on my pension and then if/when I die, she gets 50% of the pension amount. I do not think there is an age limit on that. Also, Soc Sec is available at 62, which I'll take while it still exists right then.....Now That she cannot get anything from until she's 62 as well. The TSP, which should have about $500+K in it, will be her nest egg regardless as long as we can avoid spending it...I'm sure we won't besides paying cash for a house in P.I. I think once she Has citizenship here, then she can come an go to U.S. as she pleases; we'll have to research how she goes in and out of P.I. Both kids (son and one expecting later this yr) will be born in U.S.; so, their status is easy. Again, thanks for input!.


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## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

JimnNila143 said:


> Your wife can get her US Citizenship in 3 years and have Dual Citizenship in 5 years. By having dual citizenship she can own property [land] in both countries. When and if you return to the Philippines she would return as Balikbayan and you would be her spouse here that accompanies her. There are limitations as far as how often she could leave the country [the USA] once she receives US Citizenship.


Jim, once his wife gets her US Citizenship, she would then automatically be a Dual Citizen. What is the extra 2 years for? Also, as far as I know, the US doesnt require naturalized citizens to give up their prior citizenship (as some countries do), so she wouldnt enter the Philippines as a Balikbayan, she would enter as a regular Philippine citizen.

I thought Balikbayan was for a Philippines citizen who gained a second citizenship, gave up their Pinoy citizenship, then applied for it back at a later time. As long as she doesnt give it up after gaining US citizenship, she should be good to go in both countries.


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## Palawenio (Mar 4, 2014)

Children born of Canadian or U.S. citizen in a country outside Canada or the United States: they are deemed Canadian or U.S. citizens, BUT : the Canadian or American parent have to apply for the child's recognition as such to their respective governments.

You need to fill out and submit a Citizenship application form together with the child's birth certificate, the ultrasound image of the pregnant mother, a letter from the doctor who delivered the baby, ID pictures, and lastly, pay the processing fee which is not much. 
Of course the Canadian or American parent have to submit their own passport / other gov't ID to the Consulate.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks. Child will be born in U.S. where we live now. Will move to PI in 2016 sometime ...so no paperwork needed This end or for US citizenship. But not sure about paperwork for cold moving To Philippines with an American dad and Filipina mom. Mom may or may not have dual citizenship then as will be up to her. I was told she Should go ahead and get US citizenship too and then just have Both "in her pocket" so to speak.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

*Balikbayan*



HondaGuy said:


> Jim, once his wife gets her US Citizenship, she would then automatically be a Dual Citizen. What is the extra 2 years for? Also, as far as I know, the US doesnt require naturalized citizens to give up their prior citizenship (as some countries do), so she wouldnt enter the Philippines as a Balikbayan, she would enter as a regular Philippine citizen.
> 
> I thought Balikbayan was for a Philippines citizen who gained a second citizenship, gave up their Pinoy citizenship, then applied for it back at a later time. As long as she doesnt give it up after gaining US citizenship, she should be good to go in both countries.


According to the US Constitution, it is forbidden for a US Citizen to swear allegiance to another sovereign country, therefore when a person from another country becomes a US Citizen, the USA prefers that they swear allegiance only to the USA. In this case a foreign national gives up their citizenship of the country of origin unless they go for the Dual Citizenship status, which takes 5 years to accomplish. 

Balikbayan - refers to Philippine nationals who are permanently residing abroad including their spouses and children, regardless of nationality or country of birth. It also refers to those of Filipino Descent who acquired foreign citizenship and permanent status abroad. 

This is from the Philippine Consulate General in Los Angeles:

Philippine Consulate General in Los Angeles


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Hear ya! Just bizarre that Constitution says that, Yet we allow Foreign National green card holders to serve in our military. Wow. Anyway, the US embassy Manila web site is even very vague on the topic...so we'll figure it out as we go. Thanks everyone for the feedback.


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## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

JimnNila143 said:


> According to the US Constitution, it is forbidden for a US Citizen to swear allegiance to another sovereign country, therefore when a person from another country becomes a US Citizen, the USA prefers that they swear allegiance only to the USA. In this case a foreign national gives up their citizenship of the country of origin unless they go for the Dual Citizenship status, which takes 5 years to accomplish.
> 
> Balikbayan - refers to Philippine nationals who are permanently residing abroad including their spouses and children, regardless of nationality or country of birth. It also refers to those of Filipino Descent who acquired foreign citizenship and permanent status abroad.
> 
> ...


Jim, yep, the Constitution says that but State Department has interpreted it as only being a Potentially Expatriating Act if is is done "with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality". The State Department prefers people to give up their previous citizenship when they become naturalized US citizens, but they are not required to. I'm sure we both know tons of dual citizen US/Filipino, US/Thai, US/Bahraini, etc. I still dont see where you need 5 years to get an official Dual Citizenship status from the US. Once you acquire your second citizenship (be it from the US or another country that doesnt ban second citizenships, like Singapore), you are a de facto dual citizen:

Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Nationality and Dual Nationality

The Balikbayan Program you linked to is really just an incentive to get expat Filipinos and ex-Filipinos to visit the Philippines and spend money. The 1 year visa is only applicable to former Filipinos who gave up their Filipino citizenship. If a Filipino has US (for example) and Filipino citizenship, they would probably want to keep both as it really is the best of both worlds. You have the ability to travel to the US and own property in the Philippines. The wont need the visa as they have not given up their Filipino citizenship and passport.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

*Status*



Nickleback99 said:


> Hear ya! Just bizarre that Constitution says that, Yet we allow Foreign National green card holders to serve in our military. Wow. Anyway, the US embassy Manila web site is even very vague on the topic...so we'll figure it out as we go. Thanks everyone for the feedback.


At one time the US was very strict about their citizens. I am sure there may be US Citizens that live abroad who would consider trying for dual citizenship status but there may be a risk in doing that, especially if benefits were paid. This is a touchy situation and should the US Embassy decide to get hard on ExPats living abroad, it could get rough, we cannot even have Medicare here and that is very hard of US EXPATS who are retired.


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## overmyer (Aug 15, 2013)

Nickleback99 said:


> Hear ya! Just bizarre that Constitution says that, Yet we allow Foreign National green card holders to serve in our military. Wow. Anyway, the US embassy Manila web site is even very vague on the topic...so we'll figure it out as we go. Thanks everyone for the feedback.


The only way for a natural born US citizen to lose or give up their citizenship is to renounce it before a US Consular Officer. What is written in the Constitution has been further modified by past US Supreme Court cases which make it essentially impossible for one to have Citizenship lost involuntarily.
Your swearing an oath of citizenship/loyalty to another government does not in and of itself cause you to lose your US citizenship.
However, if you do not surender that citizenship you remain subject to the laws, even if they conflict, of both countries.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

*Citizenship*



overmyer said:


> The only way for a natural born US citizen to lose or give up their citizenship is to renounce it before a US Consular Officer. What is written in the Constitution has been further modified by past US Supreme Court cases which make it essentially impossible for one to have Citizenship lost involuntarily.
> Your swearing an oath of citizenship/loyalty to another government does not in and of itself cause you to lose your US citizenship.
> However, if you do not surender that citizenship you remain subject to the laws, even if they conflict, of both countries.


This is my question on this subject. I have been a US Citizen for 67 years, born in the State of Louisiana, I have absolutely no intention of renouncing my US Citizenship. I have been a Permanent Resident in the Philippines for 4 years. Would there be a problem if I were to apply for Philippine Citizenship and, therefore, have Dual Citizenship in both countries? 

For a Filipino who is acquiring US Citizenship, would it be the same for them in the same way? If not, then why does it take 5 years to have 'Dual Citizenship' status instead of 3 which takes place in both countries?


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Nationality and Dual Nationality

The Department of State is responsible for determining the nationality status of a person located outside the United States or in connection with the application for a U.S. passport while in the United States. Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals. Non-citizen nationality status refers only to individuals who were born either in American Samoa or on Swains Island to parents who are not citizens of the United States. 

Potentially Expatriating Acts

Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. nationals are subject to loss of nationality if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Briefly stated, these acts include:
1.obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
2.taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
3.entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
4.accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
5.formally renouncing U.S. nationality before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
6.formally renouncing U.S. nationality within the United States (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
7.conviction for an act of treason against the Government of the United States or for attempting to force to overthrow the Government of the United States (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

We call ourselves US EXPATS aka United States Ex-Patriots. Technically we are US Citizens who are not residing in the United States but in a foreign country. Of the SEVEN (7) above items, are we, as US Citizens, doing any of the above? The answer is a resounding NO! We are Lifetime US Tourists Living Forever in the Philippines. Why? Because our spouses are Filipinos, born and raised in the Philippines or they are US Citizens who are of Filipino heritage or because our spouses were unable to immigrate to the US due to the strict income requirements of the INA which is a minimum of TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ($2,500) PER MONTH income.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

JimnNila143 said:


> This is my question on this subject. I have been a US Citizen for 67 years, born in the State of Louisiana, I have absolutely no intention of renouncing my US Citizenship. I have been a Permanent Resident in the Philippines for 4 years. Would there be a problem if I were to apply for Philippine Citizenship and, therefore, have Dual Citizenship in both countries?
> 
> For a Filipino who is acquiring US Citizenship, would it be the same for them in the same way? If not, then why does it take 5 years to have 'Dual Citizenship' status instead of 3 which takes place in both countries?


Just as an aside. To obtain Filipino citizenship takes 10 years and you must speak one of the languages fluent.


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## Druidia (Apr 21, 2014)

Nickleback99 said:


> Hey fellas, my Filipina wife is here with me in U.S. now (20 months), but we plan to retire to P.I. in 2016 and split our time for a bit between there and here while my son's in college, etc, which raises a question thought y'all might know the answer better. Since we will have a child later this year, want to be sure my wife can get her U.S. Citizenship at the 10 year mark and wanted to know how much time does she have to spend in the U.S. each year of the 10 required in order to qualify? I know US Immigration pretty much will not let her leave for more than 6 mos at a time without apply for some sort of exception, but it' s not clear how long she has to remain in U.S. each year. Just want that option for her since our children will have that citizenship and in case the P.I. were to fall apart, especially after I'm gone. Thanks in advance.


*Your wife's US naturalization*
Your wife can apply for naturalization (N-400) 3 years (minus 90 days, for early filing) from the date she became a permanent resident. See instructions for naturalization here - go to USCIS website.

Example: Your wife became a permanent resident on Jan 1, 2012. Her 3rd year would be on Dec 31, 2014. She can file her N-400 as early as Oct 2, 2014. If she spent a total of 30 days outside the USA, then the start of her filing date would be Nov 1, 2014.

*Your wife's Philippine citizenship*
Your wife will lose her Philippine citizenship once she takes her US citizenship oath. She can apply for reacquisition of Philippine Citizenship at the Phil consulate/embassy that has jurisdiction over your area (PH Consulate General in San Francisco) - check website of PH Consulate San Francisco. Note that reacquisition of PH citizenship is only for former natural-born Filipinos. 

*Your children's citizenship*
Being born on US soil or having at least one USC parent, at the time of birth, makes the baby a US citizen. The child is also a Filipino citizen if the mother or father is a Filipino citizen at the time of the baby's birth. If you want your child to have dual citizenship at birth, your wife should not yet have taken her US citizenship oath or should already have reacquired her PH citizenship at/before the time of the baby's birth. Your wife will need to file a Report of Birth - check website of PH Consulate San Francisco

If you were married to your Filipina wife here in the USA, she may want to file a Report of Marriage. The ROM has to be filed with the Consulate that has jurisdiction over the place where the marriage took place.

<Snip>


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thank you Druidia! That simplifies things quite a bit. She'll still have a yr to go to get citizenship once baby is born next Nov. We were married in P.I.; so, that part is simplified. Guess we'll see what She decides on applying for citizenship, and we'll register birth appropriately when occurs. Thanks again.


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## Druidia (Apr 21, 2014)

JimnNila143 said:


> According to the US Constitution, it is forbidden for a US Citizen to swear allegiance to another sovereign country, therefore when a person from another country becomes a US Citizen, the USA prefers that they swear allegiance only to the USA. In this case a foreign national gives up their citizenship of the country of origin unless they go for the Dual Citizenship status, which takes 5 years to accomplish.
> 
> Balikbayan - refers to Philippine nationals who are permanently residing abroad including their spouses and children, regardless of nationality or country of birth. It also refers to those of Filipino Descent who acquired foreign citizenship and permanent status abroad.


Where does it state that acquiring Dual Citizenship status takes 5 years to accomplish?

In the OP's case, PH citizenship is lost when a foreign national (Filipino) takes the US citizenship oath. The same foreign national can apply for reacquisition of PH citizenship as early as on the same day he/she took his US citizenship oath (depending on the schedule of the PH Consulate/Embassy).

In some other countries, citizens do not lose their citizenship when they swear allegiance/loyalty to another country. In this case, the foreign national attains dual citizenship (or more if he already has two citizenships before taking the US citizenship oath) at the time he/she takes the US citizenship oath.

Immigrants to the US usually have to wait 5 years, from the time they became permanent residents, before they can apply for US naturalization. The exception is if they have been married to a US citizen for 3 years in which case they can apply for naturalization 3 years after becoming permanent residents. - see USCIS website, can't post links yet.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

*Dual Citizenship*



Druidia said:


> Where does it state that acquiring Dual Citizenship status takes 5 years to accomplish?
> 
> In the OP's case, PH citizenship is lost when a foreign national (Filipino) takes the US citizenship oath. The same foreign national can apply for reacquisition of PH citizenship as early as on the same day he/she took his US citizenship oath (depending on the schedule of the PH Consulate/Embassy).
> 
> ...


I refer you to post #12. Do you think that a Filipino, born in the Philippines but living in the USA, who becomes a permanent resident in the USA, in 3 years time, and 'loses' their Philippine citizenship, can reestablish that Philippine citizenship status in less than 2 extra years? Where does it state that it does not take 5 years for a Filipino living in America less time to acquire their Dual Citizenship status?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

JimnNila143 said:


> I refer you to post #12. Do you think that a Filipino, born in the Philippines but living in the USA, who becomes a permanent resident in the USA, in 3 years time, and 'loses' their Philippine citizenship, can reestablish that Philippine citizenship status in less than 2 extra years? Where does it state that it does not take 5 years for a Filipino living in America less time to acquire their Dual Citizenship status?


As far as I'm aware there is no minimum time limit to reaquiring Philippine Citizenship. As said you could do it the same day as you aquire your new citizenship.


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## Druidia (Apr 21, 2014)

JimnNila143 said:


> I refer you to post #12.


I looked at post #12. All it says is "At one time the US was very strict about their citizens. I am sure there may be US Citizens that live abroad who would consider trying for dual citizenship status but there may be a risk in doing that, especially if benefits were paid. This is a touchy situation and should the US Embassy decide to get hard on ExPats living abroad, it could get rough, we cannot even have Medicare here and that is very hard of US EXPATS who are retired."

It does not say anything about dual citizenship requiring 5 years to obtain.



JimnNila143 said:


> Do you think that a Filipino, born in the Philippines but living in the USA, who becomes a permanent resident in the USA, in 3 years time, and 'loses' their Philippine citizenship, can reestablish that Philippine citizenship status in less than 2 extra years? Where does it state that it does not take 5 years for a Filipino living in America less time to acquire their Dual Citizenship status?


I answered this in my post #17 (Your wife's PH citizenship) but I didn't provide a link because I cannot put in links yet. I don't have 5 posts yet. I did write "check website of PH Consulate San Francisco." If you're in the PH Consulate website (any location in the world), go to "Consular & Other services" then to "Dual Citizenship".

This is a quote from the PH Consulate San Francisco webpage:
Republic Act 9225 otherwise known as the Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act of 2003 (more popularly known as the Dual Citizenship Law) enables former natural-born Filipinos who have become naturalized citizens of another country to reacquire/retain their Philippine citizenship by taking an oath of allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines before a Philippine Consular Officer.

These are the requirements listed on their website:
Submit the original and one duplicate copy of the following required documents to apply for reacquisition of Philippine citizenship:
1.One (1) original and one (1) photocopy of the duly-accomplished Dual Citizenship application form, typed or printed legibly in black or blue ink
2.Copy of Philippine Birth Certificate (original to be presented before the oath taking, when applying by mail)
3.Copies of Philippine and U.S. Passports (originals to be presented before the oath taking, when applying by mail)
4.Copy of Marriage Certificate/Contract, for married women (original to be presented before the oath taking, when applying by mail)
5.Copy of U.S. Naturalization Certificate (original to be presented before the oath taking, when applying by mail)
6.Six (6) colored photos, 2” x 2”, taken within six months before the date of application, showing a clear front view of applicant’s face, with a white background. No sleeveless attire. Blurred or low quality photos are not accepted.
7.Processing fee of $50.00 (non-refundable), payable in cash, or money order, bank draft, certified check or cashier’s check, made payable to "Embassy of the Philippines" (or "Philippine Consulate General", if application is made at one of the Philippine Consulates General in the U.S.). Personal checks and credit cards are not accepted.

As you can see, it's all just paper work. There is no requirement that states a person has to wait X months or years before they can apply. However, as I mentioned in post #17, only former natural-born Filipinos are eligible. If you are a Filipino by naturalization, then lost your PH citizenship by becoming a citizen in another country, you cannot apply for "reacquisition" of PH citizenship under RA9225.

When you become a PH citizen again, after submitting your application, depends on the PH Consulate's scheduling. The PH Consulate in Chicago does same day oath-taking. I think the Los Angeles PH Consulate is the same but I'm not sure because it was ~ 4 years ago when someone I knew reacquired their PH citizenship there. I'm sure though that it was on the same week that the reacquisition application was submitted.


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