# Rajoy announces his anti-crisis measures



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Cut public spending by €16.5 billion to reduce Spain's deficit.
Freeze on all public sector posts except state security forces.
Pensions to be increased by inflation but early retirement abolished.
Puentes abolished, public holidays moved to Mondays.
Tax help for firms owed money by public bodies.
Improvements to education including 3-year bachillerato and more focus on foreign languages.

More here:

Rajoy subirá pensiones, recortará 16.500 millones y eliminará los puentes | Política | EL PAÍS


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Well that's a fair old start.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Me gusta.



Queue in the protests...


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## thelastspud (Oct 24, 2011)

But is an extra year of high school actually going to help? 
I think that by the last years of high school you have an idea of what you are going to do at uni and if your not planning to go to uni an extra year at that level is just a waste.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thelastspud said:


> But is an extra year of high school actually going to help?
> I think that by the last years of high school you have an idea of what you are going to do at uni and if your not planning to go to uni an extra year at that level is just a waste.


I think it's intended to help the unemployment figures!

although it could have the opposite effect - kids who aren't intending to go to uni but are happy to do Bachi for 2 years while they are making up their minds might not be prepared to stay for another 3 instead

you're right though, I doubt it would benefit the kids much, although it would presumably make it a little easier for them study load wise - unless they would have to do more subjects, perhaps the foreign languages mentioned - & that imo would only be a good thing


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I think it's intended to help the unemployment figures!


That's exactly what it's supposed to do (it will help the unemployment figures for the young and possibly a little for the teachers) and buxxer the kids!!

If it's done properly it could turn into smth positive, but will it be done properly?????????????????????????????????


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's exactly what it's supposed to do (it will help the unemployment figures for the young and possibly a little for the teachers) and buxxer the kids!!
> 
> If it's done properly it could turn into smth positive, but will it be done properly?????????????????????????????????


only time will tell I guess, and I wonder how quickly it will be put in place

I know for sure that my elder dd isn't going to be too happy about a 3 year bachi - she's due to start next Sept. - she wants to go to uni in the US & that will make her a year older than everyone else in the same year (unless they've had a year out, which she wanted to do too, but she probably won't now, which would be a shame) - and she's already just about the oldest in the year!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> only time will tell I guess, and I wonder how quickly it will be put in place
> 
> I know for sure that my elder dd isn't going to be too happy about a 3 year bachi - she's due to start next Sept. - she wants to go to uni in the US & that will make her a year older than everyone else in the same year (unless they've had a year out, which she wanted to do too, but she probably won't now, which would be a shame) - and she's already just about the oldest in the year!


Yes, it will put them out of synch with other countries, although I think I heard Rajoy say that other countries do it including (the Great and Mighty) Germany. The thing is, I thought the idea was to spend less on education, not more, so if that's the case you can imagine how well, or badly, it will be implemented, which is what has happened to plan Bolonia in the universities for example. It's the "pass legislation, and the implementation will Look After Itself technique"


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, it will put them out of synch with other countries, although I think I heard Rajoy say that other countries do it including (the Great and Mighty) Germany. The thing is, I thought the idea was to spend less on education, not more, so if that's the case you can imagine how well, or badly, it will be implemented, which is what has happened to plan Bolonia in the universities for example. It's the "pass legislation, and the implementation will Look After Itself technique"


yes, I suspect it will just be the same subjects & teaching hours but spread over 3 years instead of 2

what was plan Bolonia?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Could those who dislike this programme suggest an alternative?
We are all free to criticise but it would be helpful to have suggestions for a more acceptable solution.
It's great to be against things but ....like the 'anti-capitalists'.....it would be good to know what PRACTICAL alternative they can offer.
I have posted many times what I would like to see done but will willingly bore the posterior off people posting it again.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes, I suspect it will just be the same subjects & teaching hours but spread over 3 years instead of 2
> 
> what was plan Bolonia?


What *is* plan Bolonia cos it's what's in place now. It includes making (most/ all?) degrees into 4 year courses instead of 5+ and the revolutionary idea of work practice(!!) Also it's more in line with europe so you can move around more easily within Spain and europe and participation in sports, student activities, charities etc may also lead to credits - a whole bunch of stuff has changed. However, there have been complaints about the Bolonia system and it seems that in many cases the transfer from one system to another has left universities worse off because of the incorrect implementation of the plan due to cuts or other obstacles.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> What *is* plan Bolonia cos it's what's in place now. It includes making (most/ all?) degrees into 4 year courses instead of 5+ and the revolutionary idea of work practice(!!) Also it's more in line with europe so you can move around more easily within Spain and europe and participation in sports, student activities, charities etc may also lead to credits - a whole bunch of stuff has changed. However, there have been complaints about the Bolonia system and it seems that in many cases the transfer from one system to another has left universities worse off because of the incorrect implementation of the plan due to cuts or other obstacles.


ah I see - yes, more in line with Europe - although most degree courses in the UK are 3 years

I shall have a google/wiki and a good read - thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Could those who dislike this programme suggest an alternative?
> We are all free to criticise but it would be helpful to have suggestions for a more acceptable solution.
> It's great to be against things but ....like the 'anti-capitalists'.....it would be good to know what PRACTICAL alternative they can offer.
> I have posted many times what I would like to see done but will willingly bore the posterior off people posting it again.


I wouldn't make Bachillerato 3 years long. 
I would give schools back the teachers and support staff that they have lost - in fact I would increase staff in schools thereby cunningly reducing unemployment at the same time as raising the standards of education which Rajoy has expressed concern about. 
I would give all full time town hall workers across Spain the same conditions and salaries so that a woman who works in the collecting the rubbish tax in Alicante gets the same salary (regionally adjusted to the cost of living) as someone doing it in Villarejo del Rio. One truck and one van and one Seat car per Town hall (adjusted to number of inhabitants).
I would increase taxes on high end market goods including fur coats, luxury cars, precious stones, gold.
I would invest, which I understand that Rajoy has said he's not going to do anywhere along the line, in the creation of business and the training of employees in long term employment plans like environmentally friendly fuels in which Spain should be and has the potential to be world leader.

I'm not actively criticising Rajoy's statements 'cos I confess I've heard very little as I'm a little busy at the moment. I heard smth about pensions (they will increase with inflation, but I thought that was already in place) and education (3 yr. Bach.) and that he's not going to touch taxes...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> ah I see - yes, more in line with Europe - although most degree courses in the UK are 3 years
> 
> I shall have a google/wiki and a good read - thanks


Perhaps it's 3.
It's now known as a *grado* instead of *carrera*


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wouldn't make Bachillerato 3 years long.
> I would give schools back the teachers and support staff that they have lost - in fact I would increase staff in schools thereby cunningly reducing unemployment at the same time as raising the standards of education which Rajoy has expressed concern about.
> I would give all full time town hall workers across Spain the same conditions and salaries so that a woman who works in the collecting the rubbish tax in Alicante gets the same salary (regionally adjusted to the cost of living) as someone doing it in Villarejo del Rio. One truck and one van and one Seat car per Town hall (adjusted to number of inhabitants).
> I would increase taxes on high end market goods including fur coats, luxury cars, precious stones, gold.
> ...


I would also get the whole plan together, fully cost it, and present it to the markets. Dribbling information and measures is very dangerous IMHO.

The external investors need to know there is a plan and you are going to stick to it. They will then look more favourably upon it.

And plan 2 : start printing new peseta notes


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wouldn't make Bachillerato 3 years long.
> I would give schools back the teachers and support staff that they have lost - in fact I would increase staff in schools thereby cunningly reducing unemployment at the same time as raising the standards of education which Rajoy has expressed concern about.
> I would give all full time town hall workers across Spain the same conditions and salaries so that a woman who works in the collecting the rubbish tax in Alicante gets the same salary (regionally adjusted to the cost of living) as someone doing it in Villarejo del Rio. One truck and one van and one Seat car per Town hall (adjusted to number of inhabitants).
> I would increase taxes on high end market goods including fur coats, luxury cars, precious stones, gold.
> ...



Elements of what you have posted need to be carefully costed. But I didn't notice that he has plans to change the labour laws or decrease unemployment apart from the sleight-of-hand with the extra time in education.
The tax system needs to be looked at and changed so that unearned income is taxed at a higher rate than earned income. The autonomo needsw to be progressive and income-related.
Tax avoidance needs to be clamped down on.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Elements of what you have posted need to be carefully costed. But I didn't notice that he has plans to change the labour laws or decrease unemployment apart from the sleight-of-hand with the extra time in education.
> The tax system needs to be looked at and changed so that unearned income is taxed at a higher rate than earned income. The autonomo needsw to be progressive and income-related.
> Tax avoidance needs to be clamped down on.


How could I forget the self employed?!
Yes, that definitely needs sorting out.

Another thing I meant to include was the enforcing of many laws that have been passed or are in place, but are not "policed" like the payment of taxes!!!!!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Today's paper sets out his labour reform proposals in more detail.
Las primeras medidas del Gobierno | Política | EL PAÍS

I think most of this was drafted by Zappy, including the plan for firms to employ under-30s for a year without paying contributions. I can't see anything here that will genuinely tackle the unemployment problem. Freezing public sector hiring and banning early retirement will just make it worse, surely?


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Hi, I'm not against 3 year BAXT but i cant help Wonder how the kids will get support, does this meen that as parents we need to continue paying for our 18-19 year olds life style.. a lot of parents are also struggling with cash flow as it is.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Fiestas on a monday will be nice! Much better to have a long weekend! Not entirely sure how it will help the economy much but i guess increase productivity!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

agua642 said:


> Hi, I'm not against 3 year BAXT but i cant help Wonder how the kids will get support, does this meen that as parents we need to continue paying for our 18-19 year olds life style.. a lot of parents are also struggling with cash flow as it is.


just broke the news to my 15 nearly 16 year old............to say she isn't best pleased is probably the understatement of the century

funnily enough I did say that it's me who should be upset since it means we have to support her for another year!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Today's paper sets out his labour reform proposals in more detail.
> Las primeras medidas del Gobierno | Política | EL PAÍS
> 
> I think most of this was drafted by Zappy, including the plan for firms to employ under-30s for a year without paying contributions. I can't see anything here that will genuinely tackle the unemployment problem. Freezing public sector hiring and banning early retirement will just make it worse, surely?



I'm an unrepentant Keynesian. You spend your way out of recession. How can it make sense to pay the unemployed welfare benefits from the public purse aka the taxpayer when the same money could be used to create jobs especially when there is work to be done? The burning question of course is...how to find public money to pay for this when the markets resist any attempt to do so by raising yields on treasury bonds to unfeasible levels....
Governments can find funds to rescue banks which, however much we may moan, is essential as a healthy financial sector able to lend to business is a prerequisite of a healthy economy.
So why is no effort being made -apart from Osborne's timid public/privatesector project in the UK - to establish a European Development Fund to tackle unemployment?
Paradoxically, the threat of communism created by mass unemployment in the 1930s saved the liberal democratic version of capitalism by nudging it into setting up a comprehensive welfare state system and some form of economic planning across non-socialist Europe (No-one should be deluded into imagining that the welfare systems of states such as the USSR, Poland, Czechoslovakia et al were comparable to those in the social-democratic West).
Maybe the very real threat of the ascendancy of the hard right will persuade social-democratic governments to take action against similar levels of unemployment.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> How could I forget the self employed?!
> Yes, that definitely needs sorting out.
> 
> Another thing I meant to include was the enforcing of many laws that have been passed or are in place, but are not "policed" like the payment of taxes!!!!!!


The whole taxation system urgently needs reform. Then an enforcement regime should be set up, with powers akin to that of HMRC.
The question of 'autonomo' needs urgent revision. It should be progressive and start from a very low tax base - perhaps 10% of earnings up to a certain amount.
Then the labour laws need to be examined and their impact on employment, productivity and investment considered.
Yesterday I spent most of the day in Court in Malaga. Our charity -charity, note - employed a dishonest and incompetent person as Manager on a salaery of 20k euros. He was awarded this salary and given a permanent contract by our twerp of a past President who had had no experience of running a business of any kind, charity or for profit, having been a local government employee.
We made his post redundant rather than sacking him as an act of kindness -we didn't learn about his thieving until he had left our employment.
We were obliged to pay him 5500 euros as settlement although he had worked for us for only nine months. He had demanded almost 9000 euros.
This could spell curtains for our charity. It could certainly entail closure and unemployment if we were a small business.
It has to be made less expensive for employers especially the PYMES to hire and fire.
I say this as someone who has been an active Trades Unionist for forty years but who also understands how business works.
No sane employer gets rid of employees for no good reason and there should be complete protection for those workers who are dismissed on a whim.
But no employer should have to jump through hoops or face crippling financial penalties for getting rid of lazy, incompetent or dishonest employees.
No decent Trades Union official would defend such employees.
Most employees know only too well that their own employment prospects depend 100% on the security of the company they work for.
And anyone who professes to want a better welfare system yet who engages in any form of black activity is self-deluding and frankly hypocritical. To do so is to steal from the state aka the people.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> *The whole taxation system urgently needs reform. Then an enforcement regime should be set up, with powers akin to that of HMRC.*


Definitely!!!

Jo xxx


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

New jobs need to be created for sure, just like in the 80's in uk, apprentice ship schemes, for under 30's


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Definitely!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Although, as OH bitterly commented after hearing the story on Radio 4 this a.m. about some HMRC officials' all-too-cosy relationship with the likes of Vodaphone and Goldman Sachs, they should chase the corporate evaders and not persecute her for trifling sums which she doesn't owe anyway!!


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2011)

agua642 said:


> Hi, I'm not against 3 year BAXT but i cant help Wonder how the kids will get support, does this meen that as parents we need to continue paying for our 18-19 year olds life style.. a lot of parents are also struggling with cash flow as it is.


You've got to remember that the vast majority of Spanish parents don't have the same "You leave the house or get a job at 18" mentality that many of us posting here might have. In fact, 95% of the unmarried young Spaniards (and I'm talking into their 30s) I know live *at home*, with their parents. This would be nothing new.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's exactly what it's supposed to do (it will help the unemployment figures for the young and possibly a little for the teachers) and buxxer the kids!!
> 
> If it's done properly it could turn into smth positive, but will it be done properly?????????????????????????????????


I sure hope it will, much like the support for bilingual (English-Spanish) education he's mentioned. We'll see.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> I sure hope it will, much like the support for bilingual (English-Spanish) education he's mentioned. We'll see.


Ahhh, I haven't heard about that...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

agua642 said:


> Hi, I'm not against 3 year BAXT but i cant help Wonder how the kids will get support, does this meen that as parents we need to continue paying for our 18-19 year olds life style.. a lot of parents are also struggling with cash flow as it is.


Esperanza Aguirre (presidente Madrid) recently speculated that parents would be expected to pay for higher education. Well, they already pay for university education, or at least a part of it, but that would include bachillerato too...
And 3 years of it...
I don't know how soon this would come in though.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

The PP could also help by telling all these different autonomy's to recognise each others health cards, as this would reduce the mountain of paperwork that is involved when a worker moves into another region (or so it appears)


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2011)

PW: Here's the bit about education from the OP's article - 
_

El líder del PP ha avanzado que buscará el consenso para una reforma de la Educación porque, ha dicho, el país no puede permitirse que con cada cambio de Gobierno se produzca un cambio de las leyes que la regulan. Rajoy se ha comprometido a mejorar la educación obligatoria, a buscar vías más flexibles para la secundaria y a promover un bachillerato de tres años "para mejorar la preparación de los futuros universitarios y elevar el nivel cultural medio" de los españoles.

Rajoy recuperará la Estrategia Nacional de Calidad de Educación, ley que fue derogada por el Gobierno de Zapatero a su llegada en 2004. Además, promoverá el bilingüismo español-inglés en todo el sistema educativo y "la opción trilingüe en las comunidades con lengua cooficial".

Igualmente ha prometido un nuevo sistema de acceso a la enseñanza, "primando el mérito y la capacidad", que reconozca su autoridad [de los profesores] e incentive su labor, así como la reforma de las universidades, para apostar por la innovación, la excelencia y la internacionalización._


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> PW: Here's the bit about education from the OP's article -
> _
> 
> El líder del PP ha avanzado que buscará el consenso para una reforma de la Educación porque, ha dicho, el país no puede permitirse que con cada cambio de Gobierno se produzca un cambio de las leyes que la regulan. Rajoy se ha comprometido a mejorar la educación obligatoria, a buscar vías más flexibles para la secundaria y a promover un bachillerato de tres años "para mejorar la preparación de los futuros universitarios y elevar el nivel cultural medio" de los españoles.
> ...


Sorry -it's obvious I haven't read the article
I don't think many would dispute that these areas do indeed need attention. The only sticking point might be exactly _how_ and exactly _what_ are the PP going to do because they still haven't said anything concrete! I've never known someone who has won an election to speak so little.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sorry -it's obvious I haven't read the article
> I don't think many would dispute that these areas do indeed need attention. The only sticking point might be exactly _how_ and exactly _what_ are the PP going to do because they still haven't said anything concrete! I've never known someone who has won an election to speak so little.


You've got to admit it's been a pretty amazing - and sneaky - strategy. What I think is sad is that people are just "taking it." Sure, they criticize his ambiguity on SER radio, but why isn't this a bigger issue? 

Merry Christmas, Spain! As a coworker said at lunch, we're in for a religious year - a _Año Mariano_.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

halydia said:


> You've got to admit it's been a pretty amazing - and sneaky - strategy. What I think is sad is that people are just "taking it." Sure, they criticize his ambiguity on SER radio, but why isn't this a bigger issue?
> 
> Merry Christmas, Spain! As a coworker said at lunch, we're in for a religious year - a _Año Mariano_.


People are 'just taking it' because he was elected and a lot of people voted for him.
There is currently a trend to the right across Europe and I have banged on about my fears of a resurgence of the hard right.
People do not trust 'left' governments in times of crisis. We could debate endlessly why this is but it is a historical fact. 
The collapse of socialism post 1989 is one obvious factor.
Most people are naturally small c conservative.
In the 1936 election the victorious Popular Front did not command majority support and the Right emerged stronger from the election, a fact glossed over by many Left historians..(but not Hugh Thomas).
It is a huge weakness of the traditional left that they do not admit that a large proportion of the lower-paid vote Right. They see 'blocs' and 'classes' where in reality things are much more complex.
There's nowt so queer as folk, as we Brits say.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> You've got to admit it's been a pretty amazing - and sneaky - strategy. What I think is sad is that people are just "taking it." Sure, they criticize his ambiguity on SER radio, but why isn't this a bigger issue?
> 
> Merry Christmas, Spain! As a coworker said at lunch, we're in for a religious year - a _Año Mariano_.


I think he's been very astute actually. His victory was so assured that he didn't need to say anything. Instead of bumbling through proposals that could have been shot down, or tying himself up in knots explaining the PP policy on XYZ he's just kept very quiet. 
As Mary says, the vast majority voted for him even if they don't usually agree with PP politics, but until he comes out with what it is that they're going to do there's little to be said. 
I think he's going to name ministers today so that should start the ball rolling.

Mary, could you make your picture a little more smiley  please?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Mary, could you make your picture a little more smiley  please?


 Isnt it lovely to see her tho - but yes a smile would be nice LOL!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> People do not trust 'left' governments in times of crisis. We could debate endlessly why this is but it is a historical fact.
> The collapse of socialism post 1989 is one obvious factor.
> Most people are naturally small c conservative.


I'm more inclined to be a small c conservative when I see people getting the sh¡¡t beaten out of them like I have seen in the recent riots in Egypt.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm more inclined to be a small c conservative when I see people getting the sh¡¡t beaten out of them like I have seen in the recent riots in Egypt.


Absolutely disgusting. Did you see the video that has gone viral? Search on "egypt blue bra girl" in You Tube but not if you are easily upset.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Isnt it lovely to see her tho - but yes a smile would be nice LOL!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I've met Mary - that is not a very flattering photo.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Absolutely disgusting. Did you see the video that has gone viral? Search on "egypt blue bra girl" in You Tube but not if you are easily upset.


Yes, unfortunately I did, on the news. I also saw a soldier jumping on the chest of a guy and goodness knows what else. It's the kind of footage that makes you gasp out loud and then turn away from the screen


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think he's been very astute actually. His victory was so assured that he didn't need to say anything. Instead of bumbling through proposals that could have been shot down, or tying himself up in knots explaining the PP policy on XYZ he's just kept very quiet.
> As Mary says, the vast majority voted for him even if they don't usually agree with PP politics, but until he comes out with what it is that they're going to do there's little to be said.
> I think he's going to name ministers today so that should start the ball rolling.
> 
> Mary, could you make your picture a little more smiley  please?



I am a VERY serious person.
A small child once asked me what I was like when I was young.
'I was born like this' was my stern reply.
Actually, that grim photo wasn't meant to be there. Im clicked on the wrong one.
It will shortly be replaced by a photo of Our Little Azor.
Smiling.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)




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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Mary, could you make your picture a little more smiley  please?



Howzzat???

Azor smiles much more nicely than I!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Howzzat???
> 
> Azor smiles much more nicely than I!!


Great!!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Absolutely disgusting. Did you see the video that has gone viral? Search on "egypt blue bra girl" in You Tube but not if you are easily upset.


Yes it is disgusting but the thing I noticed is that one of the "soldiers" is wearing trainers .
A quote from one source said "The Egyptian military apologised on Monday, but accused protesters of being provocateurs intent on stirring up unrest."

looks more to me as if they've got there own 'provocateurs' in there.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think he's been very astute actually. His victory was so assured that he didn't need to say anything. Instead of bumbling through proposals that could have been shot down, or tying himself up in knots explaining the PP policy on XYZ he's just kept very quiet.
> As Mary says, the vast majority voted for him even if they don't usually agree with PP politics, but until he comes out with what it is that they're going to do there's little to be said.
> I think he's going to name ministers today so that should start the ball rolling.


That's what frustrates me - it's a brilliant strategy! 

I'm happy to see Aguirre isn't in the cabinet.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Very few politicians come clean about what they intend to do if they win an election.
Mrs. Thatcher, when asked about her economic policy, famously said she'dwait until she saw the books.
If I remember rightly, the Tory Manifesto for 1979 and that of 1983 made scant reference to the wholesale privatisation of utilities which she instigated.
A Manifesto is merely-list which should give an idea of a general sense of direction. Events often make it difficult if not impossible to implement desired policies.
As I have often said, Merkel should be presiding over Rajoy's Cabinet. The proposed fiscal pact which Spain has eagerly endorsed gives little room for an independent economic policy.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

*I am no economics pro*

but I think one good way to help the economy would be to have businesses open more often. I have never been in a country where it is harder to find businesses open to spend my money. Rarely did I walk down a street where more than 30% of the shops and restaurants were open. Didn't matter if it was 3pm on a Friday or noon on a Saturday. That was really bizarre to me.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

skip o said:


> but I think one good way to help the economy would be to have businesses open more often. I have never been in a country where it is harder to find businesses open to spend my money. Rarely did I walk down a street where more than 30% of the shops and restaurants were open. Didn't matter if it was 3pm on a Friday or noon on a Saturday. That was really bizarre to me.


3pm on a Friday (or any day) is siesta time - many shops open 9/10 til 2ish then again at around 4:30 to maybe 8pm

a lot of businesses do close at maybe 1:30pm on a Saturday until Monday - very few businesses are actually allowed by law to open on Sundays

you don't say where you were, or at what time of year - in tourist areas off season a lot of restuarants will close for a month or so for staff holidays

add to that the number of businesses which have permanently closed because of the recession & you could well have found yourself in a 'ghost town'


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Yes it is disgusting but the thing I noticed is that one of the "soldiers" is wearing trainers .
> A quote from one source said "The Egyptian military apologised on Monday, but accused protesters of being provocateurs intent on stirring up unrest."
> 
> looks more to me as if they've got there own 'provocateurs' in there.




The PM denied that this assault took place , even as it was going around the world on youtube...it took place about 30 minutes after he gave a public address saying that the army would not attack civilians. It actually took a lot of pressure for SCAF to finally apologise and admit it happened but they did say that the troops acted with restraint.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

_you don't say where you were, or at what time of year - in tourist areas off season a lot of restuarants will close for a month or so for staff holidays_

I was in Barcelona, Valencia and Alicante. I am aware of siestas, holidays and all that, and I have been there before. I don't know if I have ever walked down a street in Spain where all of the businesses are open, and I walk around a ton.

I have been to about 30 countries, and Spain has been the #1 hardest place to spend money, because businesses just don't seem to be open enough (by my standards).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

skip o said:


> _you don't say where you were, or at what time of year - in tourist areas off season a lot of restuarants will close for a month or so for staff holidays_
> 
> I was in Barcelona, Valencia and Alicante. I am aware of siestas, holidays and all that, and I have been there before. I don't know if I have ever walked down a street in Spain where all of the businesses are open, and I walk around a ton.
> 
> I have been to about 30 countries, and Spain has been the #1 hardest place to spend money, because businesses just don't seem to be open enough (by my standards).


no idea then - even in my little town businesses are open normal hours - closing for Siesta so wouldn't be open at 3pm any day, but would normally be at 12 noon 

although as I said - a lot have closed permanently recently - some even just walking away from the shop as it stands with window displays etc., and this time of year a lot are closed for holidays

I guess as you are flying the US flag that is where you are from? 

the land of 24/7 consumerism where nothing ever closes - that might explain why you think nothing is ever open here - it's just not open when you want to shop

all the shops are open when I walk down the street - they don't just shut at random hours


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

skip o said:


> _you don't say where you were, or at what time of year - in tourist areas off season a lot of restuarants will close for a month or so for staff holidays_
> 
> I was in Barcelona, Valencia and Alicante. I am aware of siestas, holidays and all that, and I have been there before. I don't know if I have ever walked down a street in Spain where all of the businesses are open, and I walk around a ton.
> 
> I have been to about 30 countries, and Spain has been the #1 hardest place to spend money, because businesses just don't seem to be open enough (by my standards).


Yes, very strange.
Supermarkets here, large town nr. Madrid, are open Mon - Fri 9:30 - 21:00 with no closing at lunch time. My hairdressers 10:00 - 19:30. Others like newsagents, clothes shops, healthfood shop, ironmongers and the market close for lunch 14:00 - 16:30. On Saturdays it's a mix, but many smaller shops close for the day at 14:00. On Sundays usually just bakeries, garages and paper shops are open.
So they are not open 24hrs, but the timetables seem quite ample to me??
Recently the president of Madrid, Esperanza Aguirre has ruled that shops can open every Sunday which favours the big shops like Corte Inglés which practically owns Sol. The little shops are protesting, but the Aguirre is even deafer than my mother!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, very syramnge.
> Supermarkets here, large town nr. Madrid, are open Mon - Fri 9:30 - 21:00 with no closing at lunch time. My hairdressers 10:00 - 19:30. Others like newsagents, clothes shops, healthfood shop, ironmongers and the market close for lunch 14:00 - 16:30. On Saturdays it's a mix, but many smaller shops close for the day at 14:00. On Sundays usually just bakeries, garages and paper shops are open.
> So they are not open 24hrs, but the timetables seem quite ample to me??
> Recently the president of Madrid, Esperanza Aguirre has ruled that shops can open every Sunday which favours the big shops like Corte Inglés which practically owns Sol. The little shops are protesting, but the Aguirre is even deafer than my mother!


yes - supermarkets are open all day, of course - and all larger stoores too

the smaller stores with few staff or which are family run will close for siesta

I really don't understand how _skip o_ found so many places closed :confused2:

I too find the opening hours ample enough, & more convenient than they were when I lived in the UK & everything shut at 4:30 - if you needed to buy shoes for the kids you had no option but shop on a Saturday - although I understand that the majority of shops open much longer hours now


I would hate everything to be open on a Sunday - it's lovely not to spend the day shopping as we used to in the UK - you're sort of forced to have some proper family time - or at least downtime


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hi Mods, if you're there. Please change the word
syramnge
in my post which is supposed to read 
strange
Too much Christmas spirit obviously


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Mods, if you're there. Please change the word
> syramnge
> in my post which is supposed to read
> strange
> Too much Christmas spirit obviously


I am the fairy from the top of the tree & your wish is my command 


I can't quite work out how, even though we were out for a huge chunk of the day yesterday, an entire big tin of Cadbury Heroes has been emptiied..........between 4 of us


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I would hate everything to be open on a Sunday - it's lovely not to spend the day shopping as we used to in the UK - you're sort of forced to have some proper family time - or at least downtime


But of course just because the shops are open doesn't mean you have to go shopping - you can do whatever you like.

In the UK when we both worked long and varied hours we found it very inconvenient until the shops were allowed to open on Sundays.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> But of course just because the shops are open doesn't mean you have to go shopping - you can do whatever you like.
> 
> In the UK when we both worked long and varied hours we found it very inconvenient until the shops were allowed to open on Sundays.


true enough - but we tended to find that we just DID go shopping on Sundays - spreading it over the entire weekend, because it was convenient, simply because we did both work long hours

so there never really was a proper day of doing nothing


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

One of the things which always appears in people's "things I love about Spain" list is strong family ties. Having one day a week when the whole family can be together is surely a major contributing factor to this.


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