# OK let's try this again- I need information



## minasparadise

Please be patient with me it's a long thread
My name is Mina. I am a Puerto Rican born in the US. I have lived most of my adolescense in the islands of the Caribbean and now live in Oregon in the US. I long to return to the island life, but not back to the overpopulated islands of my childhood. For over a year now I have been researching islands around the world to retire to. Well thanks to my father's research, on our ancestral bloodlines, he discovered that we have family ties to the Azores, so with that said I have chosen Santa Maria.
Now for the info I need help with( and yes I even called the Embassy in San Fran. but no one ever answers the phone):
1. Do we still require a work permit if we are not looking to work but rather barter for our services, I am a medical nurse, chef (caribbean food), aesthetician and hairstylist, my husband is a Master woodworker, he can make anything out of wood, and a teacher of the skill.
What is the wood industry like? Are there trees on the Azores that are milled or harvested in any way? Do people purchase custom woodwork like doors, furniture, cabinets ect..? Is there a desire for your young men and women to learn a trade or the older mind set to learn something knew? Also, I am sure that with my skills I can trade something for haircuts, color, waxing or any beauty services, I can cater parties with exotic caribbean foods or help with medical services ie..translating for the tourist ect.. Are there laws pertaining to bartering? Will I need a license to do hair? Will Art (my husband) need a license to teach woodworking?
2. How much money do we have to have in a bank acct. per year to retire permanently? We don't want to take away from the native born; rather we want to give.
3. We plan on living off-the-grid and off the land and sea for our main sustenance.
Growing up on an island I am use to fishing for meat and growing the rest. 
What is the attitude of the people or government in the Azores in regards to solar panels and living green? What are the zoning laws regarding rural property. We want to have a very small farm.
I am fluent in Spanish and can understand Portuguese, nevertheless we are taking a language coarse in Portuguese. So other than a tourist visa, which; correct me if I'm wrong, is for 3 mos, what else would we need for permanent status?
Money is overrated and has put our planet in peril. Ignorance is no longer bliss; and a simple life, as it has taught me, can be a very very happy life.
WHEW!! that was long, I know; but any help would be much appreciated. Actually, this waaas long, sorry
and thanks


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## Jon_D

Hi,
And I appreciate you wishing to change to a less stressful lifestyle. I live on Madeira, 
and land both here and the Asores tends to be expensive; the cost of living also as everything has to be brought by ship or plane. In Madeira, land tends to be kept in the family as there isn't much of arable land, the island being very VERY mountainous. The Asores are the same.
You will possibly have better luck looking to get a place (land and cottage etc.) in Central Portugal. There are only 10 million people in the whole of the country and Central Portugal is sparsely populated.
Good luck
Jon


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## Bevdeforges

For what you want to do, you'd probably do better trying to contact the Consulate rather than the Embassy (though it's not at all uncommon to have difficulty getting through by phone). I don't have much experience with the Portuguese, but I do recall that they may be one of the Consulates that doesn't have much information on their website regarding visas.

To answer your questions (based on the situation in the EU, not necessarily that of Portugal):

1. If you are bartering for goods and services, it's still considered "working" and they will insist that you be registered for the national social services. Add to that the fact that you need to be qualified for your profession under local law (i.e. nursing, aesthetician, hairstylist). As a woodworker, there may be requirements for your husband, particularly in regard to social insurances.

2. The Consulate may have a target bank balance they are looking for before they will process the visa application, but the figures change frequently and often vary from Consulate to Consulate. In general, they are looking for sufficient resources to generate an "adequate" income without the need for you to be tempted by working on the local economy. The other thing they may require is private health insurance that is at least equivalent to the national health care system. (And this can be complicated by any sort of pre-existing conditions.)

3. Generally, green living is considered a good thing in Europe, however each country has its own take on this - and zoning laws can be very different from what you know in the US. Best to evaluate on site. (Farming is a protected industry here in the EU, so there may be some "unusual" regulations related to farming.)

It's normally a big risk to arrive on a 3 month tourist visa and expect to be able to change your status after arrival. You'd do better to make a run into your local Portuguese Consulate to start the visa process or at least to make inquiries if they don't answer the phone or you can't find out what you need from their website. We Americans tend to underestimate the importance Europeans place on doing business face to face. Yes, it's a pain in the butt, however it's often what you have to do to get the job done.

BTW, I wouldn't count on the ancestral ties doing you much good. There are only a couple countries left in the EU where grandparent ties will get you permanent residence or nationality - normally if your parents weren't local nationals (and resident for a certain minimum period of time) you're no better than any other foreigner.

Why not consider Spain (Canaries, Majorca, Minorca) if you already speak Spanish? At least take a look at their Consulate's website - they may have more info on visas than the Portuguese.
Cheers,
Bev


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## minasparadise

*thanks for replyng*



Jon_D said:


> Hi,
> And I appreciate you wishing to change to a less stressful lifestyle. I live on Madeira,
> and land both here and the Asores tends to be expensive; the cost of living also as everything has to be brought by ship or plane. In Madeira, land tends to be kept in the family as there isn't much of arable land, the island being very VERY mountainous. The Asores are the same.
> You will possibly have better luck looking to get a place (land and cottage etc.) in Central Portugal. There are only 10 million people in the whole of the country and Central Portugal is sparsely populated.
> Good luck
> Jon



Believe me land there is not anymore expensive than here in Oregon, Hawaii and/or the Caribbean. I adapt very well to island living and it is the same on any island as far as importing goods go. And the land on Santa Maria is a relatively close match to that of the volcanic isle of Hawaii. As I mentioned I have done extensive research as to the land/agriculture and customs, I suppose the best thing for me to do is stay the 3mos in the Azores to see for myself. Living on any continent is not for me. Thanks again for your input, I admit that I did ask multiple questions that are probably best answered in person, especially since I am not getting much in regards to responses on this site.
Again thank you
love and peace
Mina


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## minasparadise

*Thanks Bev*



Bevdeforges said:


> For what you want to do, you'd probably do better trying to contact the Consulate rather than the Embassy (though it's not at all uncommon to have difficulty getting through by phone). I don't have much experience with the Portuguese, but I do recall that they may be one of the Consulates that doesn't have much information on their website regarding visas.
> 
> To answer your questions (based on the situation in the EU, not necessarily that of Portugal):
> 
> 1. If you are bartering for goods and services, it's still considered "working" and they will insist that you be registered for the national social services. Add to that the fact that you need to be qualified for your profession under local law (i.e. nursing, aesthetician, hairstylist). As a woodworker, there may be requirements for your husband, particularly in regard to social insurances.
> 
> 2. The Consulate may have a target bank balance they are looking for before they will process the visa application, but the figures change frequently and often vary from Consulate to Consulate. In general, they are looking for sufficient resources to generate an "adequate" income without the need for you to be tempted by working on the local economy. The other thing they may require is private health insurance that is at least equivalent to the national health care system. (And this can be complicated by any sort of pre-existing conditions.)
> 
> 3. Generally, green living is considered a good thing in Europe, however each country has its own take on this - and zoning laws can be very different from what you know in the US. Best to evaluate on site. (Farming is a protected industry here in the EU, so there may be some "unusual" regulations related to farming.)
> 
> It's normally a big risk to arrive on a 3 month tourist visa and expect to be able to change your status after arrival. You'd do better to make a run into your local Portuguese Consulate to start the visa process or at least to make inquiries if they don't answer the phone or you can't find out what you need from their website. We Americans tend to underestimate the importance Europeans place on doing business face to face. Yes, it's a pain in the butt, however it's often what you have to do to get the job done.
> 
> BTW, I wouldn't count on the ancestral ties doing you much good. There are only a couple countries left in the EU where grandparent ties will get you permanent residence or nationality - normally if your parents weren't local nationals (and resident for a certain minimum period of time) you're no better than any other foreigner.
> 
> Why not consider Spain (Canaries, Majorca, Minorca) if you already speak Spanish? At least take a look at their Consulate's website - they may have more info on visas than the Portuguese.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thank you for your timely response. I agree about doing business face to face as an islander that is normally how I prefer to interact with others especially when aquiring information. I guess it would also help to clarify where I stand when it comes to patriotism; the only thing that makes me an American is the fact that I was born in the states, that is it. I was raised most of my life in the caribbean and thus consider myself as such especially in regards to tradition and culture. I do plan on staying on Santa Maria for 3mos in order to get all my legal ?'s answered and make contact with any family I may have. In any latin culture blood is thicker than water/politics and so I strongly disagree on the family tie issue. My experience when moving/living abroad or on the mainland is that it is not what you know but who you know that makes things happen. Family ties in Latin culture is very strong wether immediate or long lost.
We do have great health ins accepted internationally so that is not a problem and because we do not intend on working we have set aside a substantial amt in savings specifically for this endeavor. I doubt it will be more than $4 to $5 thousand US per mos to retire in the Azores especially when living off-the-grid and off the land. We do not plan on having vehicles as the isle does not require it. 
I have done alot of research on all Islands around the world and have found the spanish Isles to be overpopulated, expensive due to high tourism ( compared to the Azores ) and their waters polluted. The Canary islands have alot of problems too, especially droughts.
Again thank you for your response and I really appreciate the time you took to do so, but as you can see I need more than just two responses to help me with my research. Either way it makes more sense for me to stay there awhile in order to to make my decision.
Have a fabulous day
love and peace
Mina


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## Bevdeforges

Mina,
I'm not trying to diss Latin family values, but legally you will probably find that anyone other than a parent, child or sibling does not have the ability to "sponsor" you for a visa. That would be the ideal and easiest route for you to get a long-stay visa - in Portugal or anywhere else.

The idea of going for three months (actually, 90 days - and they do count the days) to scout things out is a good one. Just be aware that you should be ready to return to the US to process your long-stay visa application if you decide you do indeed want to move over permanently. It may not be necessary to do so, but being ready for that possibility can save you considerable difficulty if you do get into a jam with the immigration authorities.

One other source to check is the website for the US Consulate in Portugal. They often have considerable information online about living in the country and any particular rules or problems that Americans may encounter. (Based on the idea that we aren't EU nationals and so have different rules that apply to our arrival and establishment in an EU country.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## silvers

Dear Mina,
Finding family members may be the way to go. The Portuguese have a word "Cunha" it basically means that you have a "in." A friend or family member within the institution and therefore rules and laws can potentially be bypassed. Things such as waiting lists will become invisible, if you are lucky, you may find one of your new family members may be of much more use to you than anyone else.
Good luck.


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## minasparadise

*Hi Bev*



Bevdeforges said:


> Mina,
> I'm not trying to diss Latin family values, but legally you will probably find that anyone other than a parent, child or sibling does not have the ability to "sponsor" you for a visa. That would be the ideal and easiest route for you to get a long-stay visa - in Portugal or anywhere else.
> 
> The idea of going for three months (actually, 90 days - and they do count the days) to scout things out is a good one. Just be aware that you should be ready to return to the US to process your long-stay visa application if you decide you do indeed want to move over permanently. It may not be necessary to do so, but being ready for that possibility can save you considerable difficulty if you do get into a jam with the immigration authorities.
> 
> One other source to check is the website for the US Consulate in Portugal. They often have considerable information online about living in the country and any particular rules or problems that Americans may encounter. (Based on the idea that we aren't EU nationals and so have different rules that apply to our arrival and establishment in an EU country.)
> Cheers,
> Bev



I did take your advise and looked up the Portugal Consulate in the US and found alot of useful info, also found several links to other very helpful sites and have saved them all to my favorites, thanks.
I did not feel that you were dissing latin family values but rather underestimate the power of the familial bond, favors granted and owed (especially with us Latinos). It may be harder in a larger city or country to have strings pulled for you but on a small island especially one with a population of less than 7thousand it is definately a who you know kind of thing; favors get done all because of family ties. I know, I've had lots of experience living on islands and small towns ( Silver agrees). My least concern is sponsorship. 
Anyhoo, thanks again for the advice and hope you have a fab X-MAS.
love and peace 
Mina


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## minasparadise

*Thanks for the encouragement.*



silvers said:


> Dear Mina,
> Finding family members may be the way to go. The Portuguese have a word "Cunha" it basically means that you have a "in." A friend or family member within the institution and therefore rules and laws can potentially be bypassed. Things such as waiting lists will become invisible, if you are lucky, you may find one of your new family members may be of much more use to you than anyone else.
> Good luck.


My father has done some extensive research on our geneology and has discovered that our ancestors were ousted by the Spanish due to the Inquisition and got as far as the Azores and my mother's family to the Canaries (regardless of the religions being practiced on the islands today the fact is is that the exiled were exiled because they were Saphardic Jews and for those who could not afford passage to America or elsewhere got as far as the Azores, Canaries and Cape Verde). My father's last name is Rosa and my mother's Diaz and as with all women in Puerto Rico they keep all their matriarchial names so the list of names of my grandmothers literally go on and on and on. All of them, my father discovered, were Saphardic names that are now bothe Spanish and Portuguese family surnames. With help from my father's DNA (mouth swab) we will find our long lost family members soon
The Ladino language which is the old spanish dialect spoken by the Saphardic is very similar to Portuguese.... I love learning about geneology
Anyways I could go on and on so with that said I bid you adieu.
love and peace
mina


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## Mojo

Hey minasparadise,

I'm a Brit, not an American, but have lived in Portugal for 20 years, and during seven of those I lived full-time on São Miguel in the Açores (my wife is from there).

Where to begin...well, the Açores are, obviously, fully a part of the EU and so for an American applying for residency there is no difference (or more ease) in applying for residency there than in France, or Italy, or the UK or any other EU place. This means that as an American you must, at the very least, show significant funds in the bank, private health cover, and a good reason for being allowed to stay, which usually means a high-quality work contract or family (and your family connections as mentioned above are completely meaningless under EU law).

Your barter/lifestyle idea as it stands will just be ignored by immigration authorities as unworkable and unrealistic (and it is; the Açores, like the rest of Europe, is an advanced place - nobody barters, and the Açorians, like everyone else if they need something, just buy it from a supermarket or go to a hairdressers or whatever).

2. @Silvers: When I first came to Portugal a long time ago this - "A friend or family member within the institution and therefore rules and laws can potentially be bypassed", I agree, would have held some truth, but now is not then and, especially when it comes to non-EU citizens applying for residency, it no longer holds true (unfortunately!).

Mena, go direct to the website of the 'Serviço Estrangeiros' in Portugal. Contact them, tell them your idea, and then wait and see what the response is.

Lastly this: you say above "but rather underestimate the power of the familial bond, favors granted and owed (especially with us Latinos)." Here in Europe you will not be seen as a 'Latino', just as an American.

Anyway, good luck!


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## silvers

Hi Mojo,
Mrs Silvers is Portuguese and please believe me Queues just do not exist if there is a family member within the institution. Banks, Doctors, hospitals and even government offices have all been bypassed for us. Your experiences have obviously been different in the Azores.


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## minasparadise

*hi mojo*

Thanks for the advice, but I am actually in daily contact ( ask and ye shall recieve)with a citizen and employee of immigration services from Santa Maria, Azores visiting here in Ashland and with the exception of the basics (funds, health ins etc...) she has told me the complete opposite and will help me get residency. So with that said I stand firm in my belief that it is not what, but who you know. 
HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!


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