# Best neighborhood for young(ish) couple - 2015 edition



## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I will move to Dubai soon and wanted to create a new thread for this as I am sure many have the same question. 

We're an outgoing couple around 30 years of age, and look for a nice neighborhood with plenty of other expats, high-quality, modern buildings with good facilities, a vibrant restaurant and (hotel) bar scene, and good road connections.

What we don't really require is family-friendliness, availability of houses (1/2 bedroom in a high rise is fine), and a garden.

Initial research threw up Marina, Downtown, and JBR. Did I miss anything?

What would you say are typical upsides/downsides of these areas? What about rent levels?

Many thanks for any feedback!

Best,
Phil


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
I don't see why you want to start another thread about this well worn question.
If you search the forum and look at the stickys (at the top of the Dubai board) - this question has been asked and answered plenty of times.
Dubai is 85% expats - so wherever you live, you are never far from one!
All the places you mention in your post are popular expat haunts.
Cheers
Steve


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> I don't see why you want to start another thread about this well worn question.
> If you search the forum and look at the stickys (at the top of the Dubai board) - this question has been asked and answered plenty of times.


Easy, Steve. I did my due diligence, and the search didn't yield any recent enough and/or relevant enough threads (this is probably the time when you post threads that you remember that might actually answer my question; thread contents don't always correlate to thread content).
Regarding the sticky topics: I do not have the time to read through 100+ pages of 50% outdated and 50% irrelevant information.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Sheikh Zayed/DIFC. Building quality varies but some are quite nice and some are very spacious for the rent you pay. Central location, easy in, easy out except during rush hour and even then it's only one direction that's backed up. Easy access to metro. Lots of hotels, so lots of bars to pick from. A bunch of restaurants from chains to the very posh in DIFC. 

Otherwise both Downtown, Marina and JLT are your best bets, but be warned that Downtown and Marina have bad traffic problems.

Business Bay has a handful of dining/bar options but it's not really a walkable place despite initial impressions.


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

Actually, I did a search myself and actually came across topics and posts that answer your questions exactly. Anyway, since you don't have time and I have 2 minutes of time, I'll answer your questions.

Areas: Greens, JBR, Marina, Downtown. Wouldn't go for JLT.
Upsides: too many to put here
Downsides: too many to put here
Rent levels: fine if you have money

You need to go there. Take a look, experience the neighborhood and the people living there. See if you like it because it is very hard for us to judge if you would have a good vibe in a certain area. Talk to people living there, do a search on the forum, see and join some Facebook community pages and have a read about what people say there... 

If you are taking this move seriously you HAVE to make time to research it.




OMGItIsPhil said:


> Easy, Steve. I did my due diligence, and the search didn't yield any recent enough and/or relevant enough threads (this is probably the time when you post threads that you remember that might actually answer my question; thread contents don't always correlate to thread content).
> Regarding the sticky topics: I do not have the time to read through 100+ pages of 50% outdated and 50% irrelevant information.


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

You will struggle to get "high-quality". Be prepared to get disappointed over and over again. The building quality is not up to western standards. There are often surprises popping up up at some stage. Once you know that it makes it a bit easier.
Have a look at ads on dubizzle, propertyfinder and justrentals. This website has some reviews https://www.flatreviews.com/
A lot of the ads contain lies, lies and more lies. Estate agents don't look after you in the same way they would do in Germany. Photos are often substandard or of an entirely different property. There are some exceptions.
Once you know that you're a bit better prepared. 
I would suggest to be prepared to spend a lot of time to find a nice home. A few hours of reading the sticky threads is nothing compared to what you would spend on looking at property ads and going to viewings. It all depends on what you're satisfied with. Do some proper research or you might end up in a scheissehole.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

West Marina is good in the sense that the rents tend to be lower than the rest of the Marina, there's a couple of hotels in easy reach with nice bars/clubs (Ocean View, Amwaj Rotana, Sheraton, Sofitel, Marina Byblos and there's a Wyndham opening soon), the beach/JBR is walkable and the traffic isn't so bad now that most people have realised that it's isolated from the rest of the Marina after they closed some junctions because of the tram. Metro/tram is walkable from most parts too.

Have a look at Orra Marina, Zumurud Tower, Westside Marina, Opal Tower, The Jewels and Dorra Bay (the last 2 will have worse traffic than the others but are closer to the beach).


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

West Marina?

You mean the south end of the Marina?

Or the west side of the marina (same side as Marina mall)?



Gavtek said:


> West Marina is good in the sense that the rents tend to be lower than the rest of the Marina, there's a couple of hotels in easy reach with nice bars/clubs (Ocean View, Amwaj Rotana, Sheraton, Sofitel, Marina Byblos and there's a Wyndham opening soon), the beach/JBR is walkable and the traffic isn't so bad now that most people have realised that it's isolated from the rest of the Marina after they closed some junctions because of the tram. Metro/tram is walkable from most parts too.
> 
> Have a look at Orra Marina, Zumurud Tower, Westside Marina, Opal Tower, The Jewels and Dorra Bay (the last 2 will have worse traffic than the others but are closer to the beach).


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

The only correct answer is The Greens.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

TallyHo said:


> West Marina?
> 
> You mean the south end of the Marina?
> 
> Or the west side of the marina (same side as Marina mall)?


South if you follow the SZR logic, west if you're looking at most local maps that have the coastline running left to right. 

It's generally referred to as west rather than south though, for example:

WEST BAY MARINA - Dubai Marina Yacht Club


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> Sheikh Zayed/DIFC. Building quality varies but some are quite nice and some are very spacious for the rent you pay. Central location, easy in, easy out except during rush hour and even then it's only one direction that's backed up. Easy access to metro. Lots of hotels, so lots of bars to pick from. A bunch of restaurants from chains to the very posh in DIFC.


Interesting alternative. I'll most likely be working in the Jebel Ali Free Trade Zone though, bit of a drive on the nightmare that is Sheikh Zayed Road during rush hour, no?


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Froglet said:


> Actually, I did a search myself and actually came across topics and posts that answer your questions exactly.


Oh? Please do share. 



Froglet said:


> Areas: Greens, JBR, Marina, Downtown. Wouldn't go for JLT.


Didn't have Greens on my shortlist, will check it out. Heard mostly bad stuff about JBR though.



Froglet said:


> Upsides: too many to put here
> Downsides: too many to put here


Maybe try and start a list? 



Froglet said:


> You need to go there. Take a look, experience the neighborhood and the people living there. See if you like it because it is very hard for us to judge if you would have a good vibe in a certain area. Talk to people living there, do a search on the forum, see and join some Facebook community pages and have a read about what people say there...
> 
> If you are taking this move seriously you HAVE to make time to research it.


Oh, I'll definitely do all of those things, and more. But I have to start SOMEWHERE, you know...


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

QOFE said:


> You will struggle to get "high-quality". Be prepared to get disappointed over and over again. The building quality is not up to western standards. There are often surprises popping up up at some stage. Once you know that it makes it a bit easier.


Alright. So even landmark towers in the Marina like Princess, Torch, Elite Residence, or Cayan don't compare to similarly priced properties in Europe?



QOFE said:


> Have a look at ads on dubizzle, propertyfinder and justrentals. This website has some reviews https://www.flatreviews.com/


Thanks, did already 



QOFE said:


> A lot of the ads contain lies, lies and more lies. Estate agents don't look after you in the same way they would do in Germany. Photos are often substandard or of an entirely different property. There are some exceptions.
> Once you know that you're a bit better prepared.


Am used to that, same here in Hong Kong. Online portals for properties are completely useless here, 80% of the places have been rented out a long time ago, it's just so that people call the agents.



QOFE said:


> I would suggest to be prepared to spend a lot of time to find a nice home. A few hours of reading the sticky threads is nothing compared to what you would spend on looking at property ads and going to viewings. It all depends on what you're satisfied with. Do some proper research or you might end up in a scheissehole.


Yep, will do. I'll make it very clear to agents that I won't look at a second property if the first one didn't match with the pictures or the criteria I gave them.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Gavtek said:


> West Marina is good in the sense that the rents tend to be lower than the rest of the Marina, there's a couple of hotels in easy reach with nice bars/clubs (Ocean View, Amwaj Rotana, Sheraton, Sofitel, Marina Byblos and there's a Wyndham opening soon), the beach/JBR is walkable and the traffic isn't so bad now that most people have realised that it's isolated from the rest of the Marina after they closed some junctions because of the tram. Metro/tram is walkable from most parts too.
> 
> Have a look at Orra Marina, Zumurud Tower, Westside Marina, Opal Tower, The Jewels and Dorra Bay (the last 2 will have worse traffic than the others but are closer to the beach).


Hmm, interesting - I only ever looked at the 'other end' of the Marina. Will check out those buildings and see if the rent differs significantly (would still prefer a 'super high rise' with a bit of a view).


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You are aware that the Torch suffered a big fire a few months ago? Mostly cosmetic damage but still...

None of the "landmark" properties you listed are among the better properties in in the Marina, save possibly Cayan. Most are pretty crappy. Impressive from a distance due to their height but pure crap on site. Crap facilities. Crap kitchens and bathrooms. 

If you want a high floor apartment with views, be aware of the trade-offs (fires! Periodically broken elevators are also no fun if you live on the 50th floor). 

Be careful which building you select in the Marina because the traffic is an utter nightmare depending which tower you live in. The supertall towers are clustered together in one tight block that is still a construction zone, so traffic + construction + difficulty of on ground walkability = crap. 

The premier towers in the Marina are generally the Emaar towers. Original 6, Park Island, Al Majara etc. Much better apartments if on the smaller size. Silverene is quite nice too. 

I don't care for JBR, especially now that it's isolated by the traffic and suffers from the popularity of the Walk, but JBR apartments are among the biggest in the Marina. 

Good luck with agents. Especially telling them what to do. It's a crapshoot rental market. 



OMGItIsPhil said:


> Alright. So even landmark towers in the Marina like Princess, Torch, Elite Residence, or Cayan don't compare to similarly priced properties in Europe?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
I will be interested to see how the OP settles in to the way of Dubai life - in view of his impatient nature (could not be bothered to read the stickys or do a search), offhand comments to established members, demanding nature (comments regarding how he will deal with estate agents) etc. etc.
All of the above do not indicate a willingness to embrace the culture and norms that he will find in Dubai.
Cheers
Steve


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Gavtek said:


> West Marina is good in the sense that the rents tend to be lower than the rest of the Marina, there's a couple of hotels in easy reach with nice bars/clubs (Ocean View, Amwaj Rotana, Sheraton, Sofitel, Marina Byblos and there's a Wyndham opening soon), the beach/JBR is walkable and the traffic isn't so bad now that most people have realised that it's isolated from the rest of the Marina after they closed some junctions because of the tram. Metro/tram is walkable from most parts too.
> 
> Have a look at Orra Marina, Zumurud Tower, Westside Marina, Opal Tower, The Jewels and Dorra Bay (the last 2 will have worse traffic than the others but are closer to the beach).


This new building site will change things... The new tower will be blocking off a lot of views from Orra Marina, Zumurud Tower, Westside Marina as well as causing noise and dust pollution. 

UAE's Bloom launches new Dubai Marina tower project - ArabianBusiness.com


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> I will be interested to see how the OP settles in to the way of Dubai life - in view of his impatient nature (could not be bothered to read the stickys or do a search), offhand comments to established members, demanding nature (comments regarding how he will deal with estate agents) etc. etc.
> All of the above do not indicate a willingness to embrace the culture and norms that he will find in Dubai.
> Cheers
> Steve


On the other hand, if he's rude, impatient and has a sense of self-entitlement then he'll fit in perfectly here.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Gavtek said:


> On the other hand, if he's rude, impatient and has a sense of self-entitlement then he'll fit in perfectly here.


Hi,
Good point - well made!
Cheers
Steve


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Stella Maris Tower? 

Did anyone not perform due diligence on the name?

While it's technically Latin for Star of the Sea, it's heavily associated with Catholicism....



QOFE said:


> This new building site will change things... The new tower will be blocking off a lot of views from Orra Marina, Zumurud Tower, Westside Marina as well as causing noise and dust pollution.
> 
> UAE's Bloom launches new Dubai Marina tower project - ArabianBusiness.com


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> You are aware that the Torch suffered a big fire a few months ago? Mostly cosmetic damage but still...


Yes, that's one of the main reasons I am considering it. Rents go down, fire security is now better than ever... also, it seems the only one of the "super high rises" with a completely unobstructed view of the Marina.



TallyHo said:


> None of the "landmark" properties you listed are among the better properties in in the Marina, save possibly Cayan. Most are pretty crappy. Impressive from a distance due to their height but pure crap on site. Crap facilities. Crap kitchens and bathrooms.


Hmm, facilities looked OK from the pictures on Dubizzle, quality of kitchens and bathrooms seemed to vary. Actual quality of the fixtures is a different story though, will take your advice on that. 



TallyHo said:


> If you want a high floor apartment with views, be aware of the trade-offs (fires! Periodically broken elevators are also no fun if you live on the 50th floor).


Thanks, am aware. Live on a very high floor at the moment as well.



TallyHo said:


> Be careful which building you select in the Marina because the traffic is an utter nightmare depending which tower you live in. The supertall towers are clustered together in one tight block that is still a construction zone, so traffic + construction + difficulty of on ground walkability = crap.


Yeah, I hear that all around. Guess I need to talk to residents of the buildings in question to get the latest on that. 



TallyHo said:


> The premier towers in the Marina are generally the Emaar towers. Original 6, Park Island, Al Majara etc. Much better apartments if on the smaller size. Silverene is quite nice too.


Thanks, will check those out. 



TallyHo said:


> Good luck with agents. Especially telling them what to do. It's a crapshoot rental market.


Haha, cheers, got a bit of experience with that, should be fine.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

If you want a tall tower with a view, Ocean Heights or Emirates Crown are the best in that area in my opinion.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

It's not a question of fire security. 

It's a question of someone smoking on their balcony and flipping a cigarette butt and the easily flammable building materials. Fire alarms go off in most highrises all the time. Weekly. People have come to ignore them, which is bad.

As far as I can tell there has been no attempt to fix the fire damage at the Torch. Another tower that suffered from an exterior fire in JLT three years ago is still standing, completely empty and completely untouched since the fire. I drive past it every day.

I will say this for Emaar, when I lived in an Emaar building they held regularly scheduled fire drills. Emaar is the one developer who takes their work and management seriously. Most of the rest are cowboy outfits who only want the money.



OMGItIsPhil said:


> Yes, that's one of the main reasons I am considering it. Rents go down, fire security is now better than ever... also, it seems the only one of the "super high rises" with a completely unobstructed view of the Marina.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> It's not a question of fire security.
> 
> It's a question of someone smoking on their balcony and flipping a cigarette butt and the easily flammable building materials.


Well, that is what I mean. People living in the Torch will be scared ****less now and watch their actions a lot closer now. Same in neighboring buildings. Served as a nice reminder what happens if you act stupid.



TallyHo said:


> As far as I can tell there has been no attempt to fix the fire damage at the Torch.


Now that's a different thing. Will definitely follow up on that if/when I do viewings.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Gavtek said:


> If you want a tall tower with a view, Ocean Heights or Emirates Crown are the best in that area in my opinion.


Thanks, will check 'em out!


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> *Yes, that's one of the main reasons I am considering it. Rents go down,* fire security is now better than ever... also, it seems the only one of the "super high rises" with a completely unobstructed view of the Marina.


That's not how it works here. In Germany maybe, but not in Dubai...


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> People living in the Torch will be scared ****less now and watch their actions a lot closer now. Same in neighboring buildings. Served as a nice reminder what happens if you act stupid.


Someone's going to land in Dubai with a bump


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Well, that is what I mean. People living in the Torch will be scared ****less now and watch their actions a lot closer now.


You clearly haven't had enough experience with 'Inshallah' yet have you ?

People will just carry on as normal - the attitude is that they lived through one firs, they will live through another.

They were delivering gas cylinders to apartment BBQ's within a week of the fire being out out ...... says it all really.


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

Best advice is to see for yourself. 

Everyone has different standards of what is acceptable and what they are willing to compromise on. I came here 2 weeks ago with the thought that I could get 80% towards making a decision from the internet, but things are totally different in real life, most of the adverts had photos from when the apartment was brand new, or they use the penthouse photos to advertise all the other flats in the building. I quickly realised that what I wanted wasn't in my budget in the marina (you can have anything you want in Dubai, as long as you pay for it) and only after seeing the building, the area, the apartment, the size and layout of the apartment, the quality of the kitchen and bathroom, the view can you tell.

My two-penneth - find an agent you trust who will listen to what you want and they will show you what they have in your budget. Don't rely on photos from Dubizzle, 90% of them are blatant fibs to get your phone number.


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## BBmover (Jun 15, 2013)

The Torch won't have unobstructed views of the Marina as construction on 3 towers in front has been ongoing for the last 6 months. This will also block views from Princess Tower overlooking the Marina.

And no rents have not gone down in Torch after the fire. No attempt to repair from what we view from our apartment.

We have lived in Princess Tower for the last 2 years and have found it to suit our needs. Although, we are a family and there are many families living here which may not be your style. Traffic is a pain exiting or entering the building and the tram can cause delay at the lights.

What suits ones needs may not suit another's.....


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

twowheelsgood said:


> You clearly haven't had enough experience with 'Inshallah' yet have you ?
> 
> People will just carry on as normal - the attitude is that they lived through one firs, they will live through another.


Isn't the Marina 85% expats? The vast majority won't even know what Inshallah means let alone share that mindset/outlook on life.



twowheelsgood said:


> They were delivering gas cylinders to apartment BBQ's within a week of the fire being out out ...... says it all really.


Regrettable - but representative? I doubt it.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You don't know Dubai at all, don't you?

Newsflash, expats include Arab expats and Indian expats. You're right that few Emiratis live in the Marina but Western expats are not the majority of Marina residents, just as they are not the majority anywhere in Dubai. 

Your problem is that you're coming to Dubai with this very blunt, my way or no way attitude, which is not how this city works. 

I daresay you won't be posting on here in the future, which is a shame because I was looking forward to a cold pitcher of gin and tonic while reading your complaints about trying to settle in Dubai and how nothing is ever going your way and how stupid we all are, because we refuse to do things your way. 



OMGItIsPhil said:


> Isn't the Marina 85% expats? The vast majority won't even know what Inshallah means let alone share that mindset/outlook on life.
> 
> 
> 
> Regrettable - but representative? I doubt it.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Isn't the Marina 85% expats? The vast majority won't even know what Inshallah means let alone share that mindset/outlook on life.
> 
> 
> 
> Regrettable - but representative? I doubt it.


Hi,
Have you ever visited Dubai?
Your lack of knowledge of Dubai culture and how things work here is very noticeable.
Whilst the Marina may contain 85% expats - who do you think owns the apartments that you might be renting, what nationality are the owners, agents, facility managers and security staff?
These are the people you will be transacting with and i can assure you that they definitely know what Inshallah means!!
Regarding the gas cylinders and smoking on balconies - this is very much part of high rise life in this region (along with people falling off tall buildings on a regular basis).
Best of luck
Steve


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Isn't the Marina 85% expats? The vast majority won't even know what Inshallah means let alone share that mindset/outlook on life.
> 
> 
> 
> Regrettable - but representative? I doubt it.


Absolutely clueless...

Good luck!


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Dibblington said:


> Best advice is to see for yourself.
> 
> Everyone has different standards of what is acceptable and what they are willing to compromise on. I came here 2 weeks ago with the thought that I could get 80% towards making a decision from the internet, but things are totally different in real life, most of the adverts had photos from when the apartment was brand new, or they use the penthouse photos to advertise all the other flats in the building. I quickly realised that what I wanted wasn't in my budget in the marina (you can have anything you want in Dubai, as long as you pay for it) and only after seeing the building, the area, the apartment, the size and layout of the apartment, the quality of the kitchen and bathroom, the view can you tell.


Yeah, I don't expect to even get to 50% just from online research. Through this thread I really just wanted to hear opinions about the different neighborhoods.



Dibblington said:


> My two-penneth - find an agent you trust who will listen to what you want and they will show you what they have in your budget. Don't rely on photos from Dubizzle, 90% of them are blatant fibs to get your phone number.


What would be a good way to achieve that? I guess I will have to start from Dubizzle, look at a few places, and then judge the honesty and professionalism of the agent through my first experience with them? Can you recommend any agents?


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> Whilst the Marina may contain 85% expats - who do you think owns the apartments that you might be renting, what nationality are the owners, agents, facility managers and security staff?
> These are the people you will be transacting with and i can assure you that they definitely know what Inshallah means!!


Sure, but they (usually) don't live in the building. Balcony fires are started by people who actually live in the building - and those people are predominantly western and should have some sense of self-preservation, reinforced by the recent fire. This is what we were talking about, not general sentiment of landlords etc. in the region.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Sure, but they (usually) don't live in the building. Balcony fires are started by people who actually live in the building - and those people are predominantly western and should have some sense of self-preservation, reinforced by the recent fire. This is what we were talking about, not general sentiment of landlords etc. in the region.


Hi,
They are not predominantly Western!
They come from many non-Western countries where their sense of self preservation will be quite different to yours!
Just come here and find out for yourself!
Cheers
Steve


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Sure, but they (usually) don't live in the building. Balcony fires are started by people who actually live in the building - and those people are predominantly western


They're really not though, western people would consist of around 30/40% at best.

It's mostly Lebanese, Egyptians, Syrians, Indians, Pakistanis, etc.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> Newsflash, expats include Arab expats and Indian expats. You're right that few Emiratis live in the Marina but Western expats are not the majority of Marina residents, just as they are not the majority anywhere in Dubai.


I am well aware of that. Nevertheless, the share of people in the Marina living the 'Inshallah' lifestyle probably isn't big. I've found south Asian folks to be rather sensible. 



TallyHo said:


> Your problem is that you're coming to Dubai with this very blunt, my way or no way attitude, which is not how this city works.


Eh, I got my way in cities more exotic and/or complex than Dubai. A mixture of money and pressure usually works. Watch me.



TallyHo said:


> I daresay you won't be posting on here in the future, which is a shame because I was looking forward to a cold pitcher of gin and tonic while reading your complaints about trying to settle in Dubai and how nothing is ever going your way and how stupid we all are, because we refuse to do things your way.


Oh, I'll be sure to post here in the future! I got what I wanted out of this thread already. It's a pity this forum doesn't have subforums like GeoExpat, but it'll do.


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## Nomez (Oct 8, 2012)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Sure, but they (usually) don't live in the building. Balcony fires are started by people who actually live in the building - and those people are predominantly western and should have some sense of self-preservation, reinforced by the recent fire. This is what we were talking about, not general sentiment of landlords etc. in the region.


The Western expats usually adapt to the InshaAllah life style very quickly too.


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Sure, but they (usually) don't live in the building. Balcony fires are started by people who actually live in the building - and those people are predominantly western and should have some sense of self-preservation, reinforced by the recent fire. This is what we were talking about, not general sentiment of landlords etc. in the region.


There are so many different nationalities here in Dubai. A quick google brings up all sorts of info. Expatriates in the United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*
White westerners are in minority here.* Do not expect anything else. 
I have not seen a report about the cause of the fire. It might not have been a cigarette. It could've been a BBQ, an electrical fault or something else.

I have a suspicion your head might get fried when you come over here, especially as you have so many misconceptions about the place. Do some proper research.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> They come from many non-Western countries where their sense of self preservation will be quite different to yours!


Interesting; didn't know that the level of self-preservation -a primal instinct inherent to every human being- varies with nationality. I think what you are referring to are level of cautiousness and habits.



Stevesolar said:


> Just come here and find out for yourself!


Will do.


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## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Sure, but they (usually) don't live in the building. Balcony fires are started by people who actually live in the building - and those people are predominantly western and should have some sense of self-preservation, reinforced by the recent fire. This is what we were talking about, not general sentiment of landlords etc. in the region.


You're making a lot of assumptions, take a step back and look at the advice that is being offered. 

People like TallyHo and Stevesolar aren't arguing with you, they are genuinely being people and give lots of new posters help on what it is like to live here. 

Also, as an aside, my balcony in one of nicest places in Downtown nearly went up in flames when my Pakistani neighbour dropped his cigarette over side of his balcony, right onto my chair. Over 200 nationalities live in Dubai, you'll never know what the demographic of a building is as it will change often as people move in and out.


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Yeah, I don't expect to even get to 50% just from online research. Through this thread I really just wanted to hear opinions about the different neighborhoods.


I did the same on here and it turns out, after seeing the areas, I realised that everyones tastes are different and ended up in an area that wasn't recommended because of the lack of nightlife and it was a supposed to be a dead area. 

But I can walk over the air-conditioned bridge to the nightlife, taxi back and have a decent nights sleep in the quiet.



OMGItIsPhil said:


> What would be a good way to achieve that? I guess I will have to start from Dubizzle, look at a few places, and then judge the honesty and professionalism of the agent through my first experience with them? Can you recommend any agents?


PM'd


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Windsweptdragon said:


> You're making a lot of assumptions, take a step back and look at the advice that is being offered.


I'm taking it all in, no worries.



Windsweptdragon said:


> People like TallyHo and Stevesolar aren't arguing with you, they are genuinely being people and give lots of new posters help on what it is like to live here.


I understand and appreciate that. I am not trying to start arguments.



Windsweptdragon said:


> Also, as an aside, my balcony in one of nicest places in Downtown nearly went up in flames when my Pakistani neighbour dropped his cigarette over side of his balcony, right onto my chair. Over 200 nationalities live in Dubai, you'll never know what the demographic of a building is as it will change often as people move in and out.


That's not really the point. The last thing I want is to live in a racially/nationally segregated area. I was actually defending folks from South Asia before. 
My point was that a bad fire in your neighborhood usually changes your behavior relating to things that could cause such a fire. Might not go for everyone, but that's how most people's minds work - regardless of origin or place of residence.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Glad you're being open minded.

But unfortunately what you're assuming doesn't work in this town. It's hard to describe it until you've lived here. So many people from so many nationalities really do not change behavior (as a group, that is) after a distaster. 

A perfect example is driving habits on the road. Periodically some Arab family gets in an accident and the kids are killed because they weren't wearing seatbelts. 

And the next day? Drive down E11 and see all the other Arab families with kids crawling all over the car and jumping up and down on the rear seats whilst the car is speeding at 140km. 

It boggles the mind, it really does. If things change, it's happening at an incredibly slow pace over decades, not overnight. 

I have been to Hong Kong a number of times and I thoroughly enjoy the city, but being an expat in Hong Kong is not the same as being an expat in Dubai. A key difference is the composition of the population. Asians are pretty orderly people who follow the rules. Taking the Hong Kong or Singapore metro is a pure joy after taking the Dubai metro. Driving habits are quite different. Yielding to pedestrians is commonly accepted. 

In this part of the world, the two biggest groups of people are Arabs and South Asians. Arabs have an inshallah attitude towards life, that anything happens because it's God's will. Your son dies because he wasn't wearing as seatbelt. Is it the father's fault? No. It's Allah's will. And they _believe [/I in Allah. ]So they are very, very slow to change. 

As for South Asians, they seem to thrive off chaos! 



OMGItIsPhil said:



I'm taking it all in, no worries.

I understand and appreciate that. I am not trying to start arguments.

That's not really the point. The last thing I want is to live in a racially/nationally segregated area. I was actually defending folks from South Asia before. 
My point was that a bad fire in your neighborhood usually changes your behavior relating to things that could cause such a fire. Might not go for everyone, but that's how most people's minds work - regardless of origin or place of residence.

Click to expand...

_


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> ...The last thing I want is to live in a racially/nationally segregated area...


Dubai is one big racially segregated city. It's the one thing I'm struggling to get used to - there are labour camps for Indian workers, and then there are the lovely, pristine western areas planted up with ornamental gardens. Apartments for westerners/ middle class society are designed with a maids room and it was a shock to find out maids are supposed to sleep in what is nothing more than a cupboard with no window - I thought it was for the hoover and ironing board to be stored. It's a hugely unfair society and coming from the UK I'm struggling to come to terms with seeing maids and nannies doing jobs that I've always taken to be peoples own responsibility - looking after your own kids and cleaning up after yourself. 

It is a hugely race/ class based society and we all have our place. Please don't think you're coming to a mixed society where everyone is treated equally, especially in places like the marina.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You're confusing racial segregation with class segregation.

It's not racially segregated. Hardly so. All the communities are very diverse in terms of nationality, religions and racial origins, including the Marina itself. Take a typical floor in a Marina or Downtown tower with, say eight apartments. The average seems to be two of the eight apartments will be occupied by Western expats, the rest are inhabited by on-western expats or are left empty.

It's easy to think of Western expats as in a somewhat privileged position but that's always been overstated. We only get higher income western expats because poorer ones simply aren't recruited to work in Dubai due to economic factors, they're better off home on the dole than working for 1500 AED/month.

But you're thinking of Arabs or Asian expats as wholly lower earning expats and ignore that there are far more higher paid, higher income expats of non-Western origins than there are Western expats. A pretty high percentage of villas in the Meadows and Ranches are owned and lived in by South Asians, for example, or well to do Lebanese/Jordanians/Iranians. 

I agree with you about the tiny sizes of the maids' rooms in apartments (though they're not too bad in villas) but let's not fall into the trap of being judgemental if someone employs help. It's very normal in most of the world outside the West, and even in the West cleaners are commonplace enough and it wasn't that long ago when the UK had a semi-permanent servant class as well. The real issue is whether your help or other people's help is being treated with proper respect as a human being rather than a quasi slave, which is unfortunately the case for a number of maids with employers of certain backgrounds. Maids in the UAE always prefer working for Western families for good reasons, and even one of my coworkers, from India, conceded that he understood why.



Dibblington said:


> Dubai is one big racially segregated city. It's the one thing I'm struggling to get used to - there are labour camps for Indian workers, and then there are the lovely, pristine western areas planted up with ornamental gardens. Apartments for westerners/ middle class society are designed with a maids room and it was a shock to find out maids are supposed to sleep in what is nothing more than a cupboard with no window - I thought it was for the hoover and ironing board to be stored. It's a hugely unfair society and coming from the UK I'm struggling to come to terms with seeing maids and nannies doing jobs that I've always taken to be peoples own responsibility - looking after your own kids and cleaning up after yourself.
> 
> It is a hugely race/ class based society and we all have our place. Please don't think you're coming to a mixed society where everyone is treated equally, especially in places like the marina.


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

TallyHo said:


> You're confusing racial segregation with class segregation.
> 
> It's not racially segregated. Hardly so. ....


I disagree, I find it very racially segregated. I'm yet to see a white guy working on a building site when we have all nationalities working on construction sites at home. White people tend to be management in shops and will not serve behind a till. I'm yet to see a white dog walker or a maid, certain nationalities are destined for certain jobs. 

I know there are reasons for it and the level of wages attracts people from different backgrounds. As a fresher in Dubai, maybe I'm noticing it more and I will become blind to it.

The company I work for are new in Dubai, we're all going through our visas and as a Brit, I'm sailing through. We have a Dutch guy of Moroccan decent who is having a nightmare proving he is Dutch with a Muslim surname. The girl from Afghanistan in the office is having an absolute nightmare with her visa. In my book, we should all be equal but depending on where you're from, you get treated very differently by the system.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

Dibblington said:


> I disagree, I find it very racially segregated.


While having been to Dubai only a few short times, let me say that I think you are both right, because race seems to be closely correlated with class in Dubai.

I might be in for a bit of a shock indeed if you Brits, who probably have the most class-ist society in the western world, struggle to come to grips with it...


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> While having been to Dubai only a few short times, let me say that I think you are both right, because race seems to be closely correlated with class in Dubai.
> 
> I might be in for a bit of a shock indeed if you Brits, who probably have the most class-ist society in the western world, struggle to come to grips with it...


Does the uber alles tune ring any bells?


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Racial segregation means only white people there and only brown people there and only black people over there. Racial = race based.

That's not the case in Dubai. This isn't South Africa apartheid style. Next time you go out to a posh venue, whether a bar or restaurant, look around. Look carefully at the people. It's a very diverse crowd. Class, not race, is what divides people this town. Next would be ethnic origins (there's sharp divisions within the Indian expat community based on caste, wealth and regionalism, for example, even though they're technically of the same "race"). 

The locals are "brown" people and they control most of the wealth and all the laws.

The incidents you describe have to do with reasons beyond racism. The reason why you only see people from certain origins in certain roles is a combination of economics (Filipinos are beating down the door to work as maids for 2K a month, but would anyone from the UK come out here to work as a maid for 2k a month? Ditto for labourer roles), and hiring practices among non-Western nationalities. Indian companies only hire Indians, for example.

The difficulties regarding passport origins have to do with that Emiratis like to pigeonhole people by cultural nationalities, particularly when it comes to religion. All westerners are viewed as "christians" by Emiratis and they often struggle to accept someone with a UK or Dutch passport whose family originally came from a Muslim country. And they're very careful/strict about certain nationalities such as Syrians or Afghans due to geopolitical issues, not racial issues. They don't want to build up a sizable presence of Syrian or Afghan expats for political reasons.

I won't claim that racism doesn't exist in this town, but it often plays second fiddle to classism and nationalism and "economicisim." It's a town where Indian labourers are prevented from entering the posh malls, but not well to do and middle class Indians whose buying dirhams are highly welcomed.



Dibblington said:


> I disagree, I find it very racially segregated. I'm yet to see a white guy working on a building site when we have all nationalities working on construction sites at home. White people tend to be management in shops and will not serve behind a till. I'm yet to see a white dog walker or a maid, certain nationalities are destined for certain jobs.
> 
> I know there are reasons for it and the level of wages attracts people from different backgrounds. As a fresher in Dubai, maybe I'm noticing it more and I will become blind to it.
> 
> The company I work for are new in Dubai, we're all going through our visas and as a Brit, I'm sailing through. We have a Dutch guy of Moroccan decent who is having a nightmare proving he is Dutch with a Muslim surname. The girl from Afghanistan in the office is having an absolute nightmare with her visa. In my book, we should all be equal but depending on where you're from, you get treated very differently by the system.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Looking at religion or nationalities is secondary. There's many more reasons for it but the bottom line is, there's a huge level of completely unfathomable, stupidity in this city.

Exemplified this very morning by the guy who flung his cigarette end out of his car window......

...... across the forecourt of a busy petrol station while getting his car filled.


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## T'challa_Udaku (Nov 14, 2014)

OMGItIsPhil said:


> Isn't the Marina 85% expats? The vast majority won't even know what Inshallah means let alone share that mindset/outlook on life.
> 
> Regrettable - but representative? I doubt it.


Inshallah is the bible here. Get to grips with it or you will be on the first flight out.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Dibblington said:


> Apartments for westerners/ middle class society are designed with a maids room and it was a shock to find out maids are supposed to sleep in what is nothing more than a cupboard with no window - I thought it was for the hoover and ironing board to be stored.


I know exactly what you mean but you start from a faulty premise that these things get thought of during design. Take it from me - they don't. We always have had apartments with a 'Maids Room' and know lots of people who have the same but not one of them would put a Maid in one. The design often requires a Maids room to allow the room to be classified as having one but don't assume that the thinking went any further than that.

Those that do have Maids in western family apartments in my experience use the smallest bedroom for them. Villas - no idea as I've never met anyone with a live in maid.

You'll also find bidets all over the place but lets face it, other than for cleaning your feet, they get used less than the Maids room.


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

Yeah, bidets are for relieving yourself when your wife is on the pan aren't they?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Bidets are redundant when you've got a bum gun. They are handy for clipping your toe nails though.


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

BBmover said:


> The Torch won't have unobstructed views of the Marina as construction on 3 towers in front has been ongoing for the last 6 months. This will also block views from Princess Tower overlooking the Marina.


I've been wondering about this - those three are Marina 101, Marina 106, and DAMAC, right?

And one of them is being built 'in front' of the Torch, as seen from the water, no?

Can you maybe advise how far construction is on that tower, and on the amount of noise and dirt it creates. I suppose it totally ruins the view for Torch, Princess (as you said), Emirates Crown, Elite Residence etc.

Would you therefore suggest to get a place facing the sea in the latter buildings mentioned above?


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## OMGItIsPhil (Dec 19, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> Be careful which building you select in the Marina because the traffic is an utter nightmare depending which tower you live in. The supertall towers are clustered together in one tight block that is still a construction zone, so traffic + construction + difficulty of on ground walkability = crap.


On this point: Would below map reflect rush hour traffic situation in the Marina more or less accurately?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

You're not far off with the traffic flows there, the green to the right of Marina Mall could arguably be yellow in the early evening as the Emaar "Original 6" towers is where the main entrance to the Marina is from Interchange 5.

The towers being built in front of Torch are called The Residences at Marina Gate, however of the 3 towers being built, only one has been started and that's currently just a hole in the ground. The developer there also has a horrendous track record of building anything on schedule so if you're at least halfway up The Torch, I doubt your Marina view would be blocked in the next couple of years at least.


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