# 10 years ban



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi friends,

My name is Naveen, Iam studing MBA in london as i had applied a student visa for my wife on 09/04/2011 as because of consultant mistake (fake finicial documents) my wife visa got rejected and ukba put 10years ban as 320(7A) and 320(7B) as now am in london can i apply dependent visa for my wife and son or not or else plz suggest me the way that i can bring them to london plz help me .........

and my wife is in india now


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

raudra said:


> Hi friends,
> 
> My name is Naveen, Iam studing MBA in london as i had applied a student visa for my wife on 09/04/2011 as because of consultant mistake (fake finicial documents) my wife visa got rejected and ukba put 10years ban as 320(7A) and 320(7B) as now am in london can i apply dependent visa for my wife and son or not or else plz suggest me the way that i can bring them to london plz help me .........
> 
> and my wife is in india now


I have merged your two posts.

As things stand, it will be very difficult for your wife to be allowed to join you in UK because of the 10-year ban on submitting a fake document. You can appeal, but I don't know what good that will do. Even if it was her legal advisor's fault, your wife as the applicant takes full responsibility. 

I suggest you first complete your MBA and return to India to be with your family, and then re-apply after a few years.


----------



## tuone (Oct 21, 2011)

you have to prove in court that you were duped regarding the information that was provided with your visa application.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

tuone said:


> you have to prove in court that you were duped regarding the information that was provided with your visa application.


Immigration rules state:
Application is to be refused
(7A) where false representations have been made or false documents or information have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, and *whether or not to the applicant's knowledge*), or material facts have not been disclosed, in relation to the application.

So pleading ignorance to what the consultant was up to is no excuse - as I've said, the applicant takes full responsibility for the whole application, including the veracity of any supporting documents.

I think the OP's wife can only rely on compasionate ruling, after several years but before the full 10 years, to rescind the banning order and allow her to make a fresh application to join her husband in UK.


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

thank u very much tuone and joppa for ur quick replay as i request u to plz give me clear details that how i can proceed and could u plz let me know even can i try with visitor visa for a short time period plz help me as i had already appiled on 08/07/2011 abt this after 28days i got a mail stating that provide the proofs where money had actally how got diprpersed before the visa dropped plz help me


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

plz help me .......................................?


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

raudra said:


> plz help me .......................................?


 I thought Joppa gave you sufficient information?

I feel desperately sorry for you, but there rules are rules.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

raudra said:


> thank u very much tuone and joppa for ur quick replay as i request u to plz give me clear details that how i can proceed and could u plz let me know even can i try with visitor visa for a short time period plz help me as i had already appiled on 08/07/2011 abt this after 28days i got a mail stating that provide the proofs where money had actally how got diprpersed before the visa dropped plz help me


With the 10-year ban in place, an application for any sort of visa is going to be refused point-blank. The only thing you can do is to ask them to reconsider their decision, and to remove the ban, perhaps on compassionate ground. How you or your wife can pursue this successfully I don't know, as UKBA shows little tolerance of people who abuse the system by submitting a fake/false document, which is dishonesty. You can plead ignorance - that you were betrayed by your visa consultant, but as I've stated it's up to you to check the accuracy of any document submitted in your name.
Maybe have a word with your British MP and ask them to intercede on your behalf with UKBA.


----------



## CARLOSDURAN (Nov 6, 2011)

Oh God... Any update abou this case? 
It's horrible what happened!!!!


----------



## tuone (Oct 21, 2011)

seeing how easy it is to get false identities in india... maybe speak to the mi6 to see if they can help.


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

plz help meeeee ........................ am still in UK and my wife and son are in india >>>>>plz help me


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Nothing has changed. Compared to 3 years ago, Home Office has become even tougher on immigration offenders. Why don't you go and live with your wife and child in India?


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi joppa .....i appreciate for the quick response .....can you please help that if i go to my local MP can he help me in this regards (to re consider my wife application ) in removing ban on her entry to uk ....


----------



## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't think that going to your local MP will help. If your wife were to be successful in getting the ban lifted, it would create a precedent that could theoretically allow hundreds of others in a similar situation into the UK. 

Given the recent clamp down on immigration rules and the relative difficulty it is for people who are trying to come in _legally_, to lift her ban and allow your wife (and others in her situation) to enter the UK is not fair to them and is also a situation that the Home Office is wanting to avoid.


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> I don't think that going to your local MP will help. If your wife were to be successful in getting the ban lifted, it would create a precedent that could theoretically allow hundreds of others in a similar situation into the UK.
> 
> Given the recent clamp down on immigration rules and the relative difficulty it is for people who are trying to come in _legally_, to lift her ban and allow your wife (and others in her situation) to enter the UK is not fair to them and is also a situation that the Home Office is wanting to avoid.





Hi Miss,

i respect the rules and laws of the immigration ...............but in my wife case its different , where we are not at all aware of the situation that visa consultant submit the fake finical documents and my wife had banned for 10 years .... this is not fair ..... where some one cannot travel to their desired place in there 10 years of lifetime .....


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Surely your wife gave the consultant the documents to submit on her behalf?

I can't see them falling for this one - sorry...


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's clearly stated that while you may use a professional advisor to submit your application, you as applicant are responsible for any submissions, including any documents. So it's entirely lawful and fair for Home Office to punish your wife for false documents, whether she knew about or not. It's open for her to sue her advisor for damages and complain about them to the regulators about unprofessional conduct, but she cannot be let off from the consequences of their actions.


----------



## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

raudra said:


> Hi Miss,
> 
> i respect the rules and laws of the immigration ...............but in my wife case its different , where we are not at all aware of the situation that visa consultant submit the fake finical documents and my wife had banned for 10 years .... this is not fair ..... where some one cannot travel to their desired place in there 10 years of lifetime .....


If that could be an excuse for having the ban revoked, do you know how many people would try to get their bans lifted by trying to use that same excuse? 

The UKBA must be consistent in its dealings with people regarding the submission of fake/forged documents, regardless of who is at fault for their submission (as far as the UKBA are concerned, your wife was in full knowledge of the fake documents submitted) and, unfortunately, your wife is having to pay the price.



As Joppa said in post #4, your wife, by signing off on the application, is bound by the "accuracy of information" disclaimer that is printed on the application form (variations of the disclaimer are printed on all visa application forms and all applicants must sign off on the form). 



Joppa said:


> Immigration rules state:
> Application is to be refused
> (7A) where false representations have been made or false documents or information have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, and *whether or not to the applicant's knowledge*), or material facts have not been disclosed, in relation to the application.
> 
> ...


It is truly unfortunate that you were tricked by the visa consultant and your wife received a ban, but there is really no way for you to prove that it was the consultant's wrongdoing and get the ban overturned, short of what Joppa has suggested. 

While you could try to go after the consultant for compensation for your losses, I really doubt that he/she/the agency would be willing to admit to you (let alone the UKBA) that they were the ones at fault, and as such, you and your wife are stuck in the situation you're in.


----------



## ddang (Jun 21, 2012)

What I don't understand is, why weren't the documents reviewed when they were signed before they were sent off?

I had a visa agent submit my first spouse application and a solicitor to help with my ILR and both times I reviewed every single document more than once with that person. I even doubled back over my application when I signed it. I then checked a last time of all my documents before they were handed over. 

If it was a well done visa agent/solicitor I doubt they would have submitted a document wrongfully. Even when I did submit all my documents, they had always gone over every piece of paper I sent.


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

ddang said:


> What I don't understand is, why weren't the documents reviewed when they were signed before they were sent off?
> 
> I had a visa agent submit my first spouse application and a solicitor to help with my ILR and both times I reviewed every single document more than once with that person. I even doubled back over my application when I signed it. I then checked a last time of all my documents before they were handed over.
> 
> If it was a well done visa agent/solicitor I doubt they would have submitted a document wrongfully. Even when I did submit all my documents, they had always gone over every piece of paper I sent.




Hi ddang,

i was in UK at that time ..... as my parents are illutrates and my wife she is not that cleaver to check the documents .........


----------



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

it was very clear that instead of supplying false document, just explain in a letter why you are not able to provide what document is needed. 

if you weren't able to provide financial proof then how are you gonna petition your wife with fiance or visitor etc?


----------



## KCambs (Mar 11, 2014)

You are studying for a Master of Business Administration, yet were unable to administer something as vital as providing legitimate documentation for your spouse's visa.

Is somebody telling porkies?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

KCambs said:


> You are studying for a Master of Business Administration, yet were unable to administer something as vital as providing legitimate documentation for your spouse's visa.
> 
> Is somebody telling porkies?



I think it was for his wifes study visa!

Studying for MBA, illiterate parents and a not very bright wife 

Porkies for sure


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

Hertsfem said:


> I think it was for his wifes study visa!
> 
> Studying for MBA, illiterate parents and a not very bright wife
> 
> Porkies for sure





i know we had done mistakes .................. but plz don't show us down .......thank u


----------



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

raudra said:


> i know we had done mistakes .................. but plz don't show us down .......thank u


Just let this be a lesson and learn from this mistake. It's not the end just look for other option if there is any. 

Goodluck


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

Pultet said:


> Just let this be a lesson and learn from this mistake. It's not the end just look for other option if there is any.
> 
> Goodluck


hi 

if u know any other option .....plz let me know ...plzzz


----------



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Nothing has changed. Compared to 3 years ago, Home Office has become even tougher on immigration offenders. Why don't you go and live with your wife and child in India?


It's easy to say but hard to do Joppa.


----------



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

raudra said:


> Hi Miss,
> 
> i respect the rules and laws of the immigration ...............but in my wife case its different , where we are not at all aware of the situation that visa consultant submit the fake finical documents and my wife had banned for 10 years .... this is not fair ..... where some one cannot travel to their desired place in there 10 years of lifetime .....


is there any way you could write to who ever made the decision of banning your wife to come to UK? explain what happened, explain in the sincerest way possible, there's no harm in trying.


----------



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Can i just share, the first time we applied for fiance visa for my partner, we used a solicitor. there were documents we need to provide but hard to get. Solicitor once told me, "you can fake it, they won't know but it's up to you" i then asked what's the consequence for faking? solicitor said "there are thousands of people giving false documents every single application, officers are too busy to check if the documents you supplied are genuine" but the final decision is still mine and i said "NO, i'd rather wait till i get the legal papers than fake them"

what i'm trying to say is that, solicitors or agencies or who ever handles your application will not just add any paper without letting the applicant know.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

raudra said:


> hi
> 
> if u know any other option .....plz let me know ...plzzz


You could go back to India...


----------



## ddang (Jun 21, 2012)

Pultet said:


> Can i just share, the first time we applied for fiance visa for my partner, we used a solicitor. there were documents we need to provide but hard to get. Solicitor once told me, "you can fake it, they won't know but it's up to you" i then asked what's the consequence for faking? solicitor said "there are thousands of people giving false documents every single application, officers are too busy to check if the documents you supplied are genuine" but the final decision is still mine and i said "NO, i'd rather wait till i get the legal papers than fake them" what i'm trying to say is that, solicitors or agencies or who ever handles your application will not just add any paper without letting the applicant know.


These must be some dodgy solicitors no offence!
My solicitor only asked for originals. He even had me to go back and get my payslips stamped and signed as they weren't on letterhead.

I do agree that there are dodgy solicitors out there as the first one we came across messed us over and ended up with a denied entry. I guess it's all about doing your homework and looking at reviews and hoping you land across a legitimate one.


----------



## ddang (Jun 21, 2012)

raudra said:


> Hi ddang, i was in UK at that time ..... as my parents are illutrates and my wife she is not that cleaver to check the documents .........


Ah ok! Well I don't think it's really about being cleaver as just being cautious or at least I'm overly precautious.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

ddang said:


> These must be some dodgy solicitors no offence!
> My solicitor only asked for originals. He even had me to go back and get my payslips stamped and signed as they weren't on letterhead.
> 
> I do agree that there are dodgy solicitors out there as the first one we came across messed us over and ended up with a denied entry. I guess it's all about doing your homework and looking at reviews and hoping you land across a legitimate one.



Surely the solicitor submits the documents supplied by the applicant? I can't see him submitting fake ones on your behalf


----------



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

ddang said:


> These must be some dodgy solicitors no offence!
> My solicitor only asked for originals. He even had me to go back and get my payslips stamped and signed as they weren't on letterhead.
> 
> I do agree that there are dodgy solicitors out there as the first one we came across messed us over and ended up with a denied entry. I guess it's all about doing your homework and looking at reviews and hoping you land across a legitimate one.


Yes, he charged us ridiculous amount and as a result, my partner's visa was denied due to wrong and misleading information from that solicitor.


----------



## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

raudra said:


> Hi Miss,
> 
> i respect the rules and laws of the immigration ...............but in my wife case its different , where we are not at all aware of the situation that visa consultant submit the fake finical documents and my wife had banned for 10 years .... this is not fair ..... where some one cannot travel to their desired place in there 10 years of lifetime .....


 Your wifes case is no different to the hundreds of thousands of people who try and commit immigration fraud around the world every day. 

She is not special or different that she deserves sone special treatment. She paid an advisor who was acting on her behalf at her instructions. Thus she accepts responsibility for what she has done and abide by her punishment of a ban. 

Life is not fair and nobody can just visit or live in any country in the world just because it is what they desire but this situation looks to be very fair to me.


----------



## raudra (Oct 30, 2011)

_shel said:


> Your wifes case is no different to the hundreds of thousands of people who try and commit immigration fraud around the world every day.
> 
> She is not special or different that she deserves sone special treatment. She paid an advisor who was acting on her behalf at her instructions. Thus she accepts responsibility for what she has done and abide by her punishment of a ban.
> 
> Life is not fair and nobody can just visit or live in any country in the world just because it is what they desire but this situation looks to be very fair to me.


 Am not saying treat her as a special case ............... even a murderer once he get life sentence .... by his behaviour they will decrease is life sentence ......then why can't we ......everyone need to get a chance to prove their innocence


----------



## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

raudra said:


> Am not saying treat her as a special case ............... even a murderer once he get life sentence .... by his behaviour they will decrease is life sentence ......then why can't we ......everyone need to get a chance to prove their innocence


 There is nothing to prove. You admit that fake documents were sent, be it by her or the agent. 

The Law specifies that it is the applicant that bears responsibility and takes the blame even if not directly responsible. 
Even if you somehow prove she was not aware the agent sent them it is not relevant because the Law says she is to blame. 

Her so called sentence does decrease. She has a 10 year not life time ban. Each year she waits the nearer she is to being eligible to apply having finished her 'sentence'.


----------



## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Actually your understanding of the legal system is incorrect. A life sentence is not reduced because of an offender's behavior, but because of some technicality of law. 

And you're really comparing your wife to a murderer? 

Just go live with her in India.


----------

