# Non EU member moving to Germany



## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

Dear all members

I am planing to moving to Germany under self employed work visa 
Is any one has an idea about acceptance rate can I work as independent contractor with companies in Germany under this visa 
Any recommendations will be appreciated


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

The probability of obtaining a self-employment permit depends on your citizenship, qualifications, and profession.


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> The probability of obtaining a self-employment permit depends on your citizenship, qualifications, and profession.


Can someone getting the permit if the profession working in Amazon as independent contractor


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

What exactly would be doing at Amazon?


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> What exactly would be doing at Amazon?


Delivering products is this profession considered self employment and I can get visa depending on it 
Thanks for replying me


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

Although Amazon does contract with "self-employed" drivers for delivery, they are technically _Scheinselbstständig_. In order to receive a permit to be self-employed multiple clients are needed. 

Furthermore, unless you are a citizen of a privileged country, you cannot obtain a permit to move to Germany unless you have formal qualifications.


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> Although Amazon does contract with "self-employed" drivers for delivery, they are technically _Scheinselbstständig_. In order to receive a permit to be self-employed multiple clients are needed.
> 
> Furthermore, unless you are a citizen of a privileged country, you cannot obtain a permit to move to Germany unless you have formal qualifications.


Thanks sunshine for your reply but from which source you get your information you can tap to me any links
On the other side I have checked the official German immigration websites this visa not received by specific countries it can be applied even you from outside EU countries
And what do u mean about formal qualifications?


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

I'm sorry I don't really understand your post.

The legal basis for a self-employment permit is §21 AufenthG.



§ 21 AufenthG - Einzelnorm


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> I'm sorry I don't really understand your post.
> 
> The legal basis for a self-employment permit is §21 AufenthG.
> 
> ...


Yes that is why I am telling you there I no specific countries mentioned are prohibited
And the idea should be viable 
there is an economic interest or a regional need,
2.
the activity can be expected to have a positive impact on the economy and
3.
the financing of the implementation is secured by equity or by a loan commitment

So Is my plan can be evaluated under this requirements and successfully be approved?


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

You are proposing to apply for a visa to move to Germany as a self-employed Amazon driver?

The good news is, it won't cost you that much to apply at a consulate or embassy if it's close to where you live. It would cost you a lot more if you flew to Germany, applied there, then had to leave again within 90 days when the authorities refused to grant you a residence permit.


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

Haithamcba said:


> So Is my plan can be evaluated under this requirements and successfully be approved?


No.

I think you should read the rest of that paragraph. 



> Die Beurteilung der Voraussetzungen nach Satz 1 richtet sich insbesondere nach der Tragfähigkeit der zu Grunde liegenden Geschäftsidee, den unternehmerischen Erfahrungen des Ausländers, der Höhe des Kapitaleinsatzes, den Auswirkungen auf die Beschäftigungs- und Ausbildungssituation und dem Beitrag für Innovation und Forschung. Bei der Prüfung sind die für den Ort der geplanten Tätigkeit fachkundigen Körperschaften, die zuständigen Gewerbebehörden, die öffentlich-rechtlichen Berufsvertretungen und die für die Berufszulassung zuständigen Behörden zu beteiligen.


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

Harry Moles said:


> You are proposing to apply for a visa to move to Germany as a self-employed Amazon driver?
> 
> The good news is, it won't cost you that much to apply at a consulate or embassy if it's close to where you live. It would cost you a lot more if you flew to Germany, applied there, then had to leave again within 90 days when the authorities refused to grant you a residence permit.


Thank you Harry moles for your post I guess there's embassy near to my location the cost surly will be less than applying from inside Germany


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> No.
> 
> I think you should read the rest of that paragraph.


I have read the full paragraph obviously there's there is incomprehensible terms mentioned in the paragraph that I can't understand it's relationship with my intented activity like contribution in innovation and research and effect on employment and training


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

Haithamcba said:


> I have read the full paragraph obviously there's there is incomprehensible terms mentioned in the paragraph that I can't understand


1. How do you intend to run a logistics company in Germany if you are unable to understand German?

2. The permit to start up a business is not intended for the "fake business" you want to start.

3. Have you looked into the legal requirements you'd need to fulfill? 

4. Have you researched the process of converting your foreign drivers license? 



Haithamcba said:


> the cost surly will be less than applying from inside Germany


5. If you are a citizen of the UAE you are not allowed to apply within German and must apply through your nearest German Embassy.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Haithamcba said:


> I have read the full paragraph obviously there's there is incomprehensible terms mentioned in the paragraph that I can't understand it's relationship with my intented activity like contribution in innovation and research and effect on employment and training


It means that the authorities want to see a businessplan with lots of funding, for a business that is new to Germany, innovative, hopefully will generate jobs for locals and has a founder (you, the visa applicant) who is highly skilled and will bring expertise to Germany which otherwise the country is lacking.

If those terms seem incomprehensible and have no relationship to your intended activity, then that´s an indicator that it´s probably not the kind of business that the self-employment visa is intended for.


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> 1. How do you intend to run a logistics company in Germany if you are unable to understand German?
> 
> 2. The permit to start up a business is not intended for the "fake business" you want to start.
> 
> ...


May be you not get my point I don't have any plans to open logistics company my plan working in online apps like glovo Uber eats or Amazon for delivering products so that my question was is that profession considered self employment and I can get self employment visa or not


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

Haithamcba said:


> Thank you Harry moles for your post I guess there's embassy near to my location the cost surly will be less than applying from inside Germany


You do understand my point, I hope? You will never get this visa. But applying from outside Germany means you'll waste less money trying.


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

ALKB said:


> It means that the authorities want to see a businessplan with lots of funding, for a business that is new to Germany, innovative, hopefully will generate jobs for locals and has a founder (you, the visa applicant) who is highly skilled and will bring expertise to Germany which otherwise the country is lacking.
> 
> If those terms seem incomprehensible and have no relationship to your intended activity, then that´s an indicator that it´s probably not the kind of business that the self-employment visa is intended for.


For me incomprehensible terms in the mentioned paragraph is how my work is social services so how it should be innovative


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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

Harry Moles said:


> You do understand my point, I hope? You will never get this visa. But applying from outside Germany means you'll waste less money trying.


Yes can you tell me why it impossible to get it ?


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

Haithamcba said:


> Yes can you tell me why it impossible to get it ?


You are attempting to migrate for a low-skill job as a delivery driver. Germany does not need this.

But feel free to apply for the visa, I could be wrong.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Haithamcba said:


> For me incomprehensible terms in the mentioned paragraph is how my work is social services so how it should be innovative


It´s not innovative. That´s the problem. Or rather, one of the problems with your plan.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Haithamcba said:


> May be you not get my point I don't have any plans to open logistics company my plan working in online apps like glovo Uber eats or Amazon for delivering products so that my question was is that profession considered self employment and I can get self employment visa or not


In order to work for online apps as you mentioned, you´d need to form a business structure - even if you are the only person working within that structure.

If you are delivering things, you need to form a logistics company.

Were your plan to invest a couple hundred thousand Euro into trucks, employ a bunch of drivers and maybe also incorporate some innovative addition to delivery processes, you might be successful in getting a self-employment visa, as this would benefit the German economy, possibly help with a local need, generate jobs and possibly even bring a new way of doing things to Germany.

What you propose will not be a successful way to getting a self employment visa for Germany.

While it doesn´t cost much to apply for a visa to Germany, I´d be careful with applying when odds are not in your favour. Having a refused long term vusa application on your record is not great.


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

Haithamcba said:


> I have read the full paragraph obviously there's there is incomprehensible terms mentioned in the paragraph that I can't understand it's relationship with my intented activity like contribution in innovation and research and effect on employment and training


I don't know if you came up with the scheme on your own or whether you got the idea from some other clueless person, however, you seem to have difficulty grasping that your plan is not feasible. 

I think ALKB has already explained a few reasons why what you want to do is not possible, but although I know that she is right, you don't have any reason to trust either of us.

There is no point in me just repeating what I said, therefore, I have a few links for you:









Amazon to End Flex Delivery Service in Germany


Amazon is ending its Flex delivery services in Germany, which pays drivers to ferry packages in their own vehicles from Amazon warehouses to customers’ homes.




www.pymnts.com









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logistics.amazon.de









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## Haithamcba (3 mo ago)

In fact, I would like to express my gratitude to everyone who participated in the topic. Your opinions and advices are really appreciated and helped me to understand everyone's point of view. Thank you very much to everyone who participated.


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