# Newbie 18 to 24 months to Plan



## GrayGeek (Aug 2, 2017)

Hello Everyone:
I am beginning to plan retiring full time Mexico sometime from 18 to 24 months from now (8-2-2017). I have been googling my brains out reading all I can about places that interest me in Mexico and this forum has been helpful.

#1 on my list is the Lake Chapala area. I don't require much, just a clean quiet space, a patio with a view, comfortable chair and a good book. Maybe some cleaning and or cooking help twice a week if affordable. I would like to eat out 5 or 6 times a month and cook at home the rest. Do you thik it possible for me to find such a place and services and live comfortably on $2200 per month?

Thanks for your consideration, I plan to be an active member in this forum.
GrayGeek:


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Have you thought about coming as a tourist for 180 days and see how you like Gringolandia#2...


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## GrayGeek (Aug 2, 2017)

Thanks for your reply Chicois, I have a very close relative planning on touring Lake Chapala in the next 6 months or so. I will depend on her opinion. She and her husband will be moving to Mexico also but thy plan to buy a house. If I can jugle my current work obligations, it's possible that I will join them on thier tour. I am trying to save every dollar I can for expenses.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

That is nice a relative will check out the area but there is nothing like your own boots on the ground...


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Being active in finding information is a good start.
Are you by yourself on that $2200 a month income? if so, you can manage just fine. In fact, 2 people can manage on that.

Pay no attention to the implied negative when you hear the lake Chapala area called "Gringolandia". Yes, there are a lot of expats from the U.S. and Canada living here. So? That means you have a large group of people from which to choose your new friends, si?
Since there are so many, it also means you will find many interest groups, from golfers to bridge players, artists and just about anything else you can think of.

There are people who prefer to find a thoroughly Mexican environment in a small town far from other expats. That's another choice.

Nothing wrong with going either way. I do agree you should try whatever you choose on a 180 day tourist visa first. "Boots on the ground" is a good start.

Welcome and good luck!


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## GrayGeek (Aug 2, 2017)

Thanks Lagoloo ! 
Yes it will be only me. My cousin (she knows me well and her opinion I trust completely)so wherever I end up she will be some where near with her husband. I do look forward to meeting and socializing with other expats in the area. I play a little guitar so meeting other musicians would be fun.
GG


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## frankania (Jul 9, 2015)

With 2200 bucks per month, you can live well almost anywhere in Mexico. Well at least the places I know--without TOO many gringos. We live in the mountains of Ver. on much less than that, with a servant-gardener about 4 days per week at salary of 15 bucks per day. Great climate, cheap expenses--especially MEDICAL and DENTAL...nobody I know even has insurance, it is so cheap here.


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## GrayGeek (Aug 2, 2017)

Tell me more a medical expenses please ? 
I take a few prescriptions that will probably follow me to the grave so getting renewals and cost of prescription drugs is a concern.

And thanks to the previous reply Frankania.


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## frankania (Jul 9, 2015)

Best pharmacy is Dr Simi, with stores everywhere in Mexico. 2nd is Farmacia Guadalajara--also everywhere. Most drugs do NOT need prescriptions, so bring the papers along to see. If they do need prescription, then go to a private doctor $2 per visit in most clinics, and GET the prescription there. I have FREE govt healthcare (IMSS) since I was a teacher here, but private docs are so cheap, that I usually use them for faster service & second opinions.....


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

There is also Seguro Popular, available to all residents including expats. This covers all medical needs including prescription drugs, but private out of pocket care in very inexpensive compared to the U.S.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I think it is a good idea to carry some kind of medical evacuation insurance, and that would be a new expense for your budget. Some choose to plan to die here one way or another.

I was on a prescription drug that affected Triglyceride levels and cholesterol in one medication. It is unavailable here and the doctors are not familiar with it, but can prescribe two drugs to accomplish the same things, so you need to be prepared to be a little flexible. I've read that very few doctors are authorized to prescribe opiates, so some things may be a problem to continue getting.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

eastwind said:


> I think it is a good idea to carry some kind of medical evacuation insurance, and that would be a new expense for your budget. Some choose to plan to die here one way or another.
> 
> I was on a prescription drug that affected Triglyceride levels and cholesterol in one medication. It is unavailable here and the doctors are not familiar with it, but can prescribe two drugs to accomplish the same things, so you need to be prepared to be a little flexible. I've read that very few doctors are authorized to prescribe opiates, so some things may be a problem to continue getting.


I am a permanent resident of Mexico and may become a citizen one day (once I have the patience to deal with the red tape required) and will die here, no doubt. Why would I need medical evacuation insurance if medical care here is certainly equal to that found in the States and available at a reasonable cost?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

frankania said:


> Best pharmacy is Dr Simi, with stores everywhere in Mexico. 2nd is Farmacia Guadalajara--also everywhere. Most drugs do NOT need prescriptions, so bring the papers along to see. If they do need prescription, then go to a private doctor $2 per visit in most clinics, and GET the prescription there. I have FREE govt healthcare (IMSS) since I was a teacher here, but private docs are so cheap, that I usually use them for faster service & second opinions.....


Dr. Simi (Farmacias de Similares) carries generic medicine that may or may not have the same effects as quality-controlled generics and brand-name drugs. I've never seen Farmacia Guadalajara in Mexico City. I buy mine at my local Superama pharmacy - the prices are quite competitive, and they usually have what I need.

You do need prescriptions for antibiotics and "psicotrópicos".

I don't have health insurance at the moment but have had no problem being able to pay my medical bills, including gall bladder surgery last year.


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## GrayGeek (Aug 2, 2017)

Gracias for the replies:

I will be 69 when I reach Mexico. The only precondition I have is Diabetes 2. My A1C is currently about 6. I am making a concentrated effort to lose weight, exercise and eat right. I hope to be below 5.7 A1C well before retiring. So I should not need metformin once I reach my goals. I'll have to keep an eye on my mexican diet to keep my weight under control. All of that said does anyone have an Idea what current Seguro Popular premiums are for a fairly healthy 69 year old male?


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

There are a lot of things that are different between medical care in the US and Mexico. Sure - it is possible to get by, live, and spend less money than you would spend in the US - but it is almost like comparing apples and oranges. If you are healthy - then it really doesn't matter. We have IMSS and are happy with it. But - my wife, who is very healthy gets 2 visits with our GP/year. IF she were to need to see a doctor in the mean time - that would most likely be outside of IMSS - unless we were to visit the emergency room - which I don't think we would do.

IMSS is seriously trying to address high BP and diabetes. I have high BP. I HAVE TO see my GP once every month. Twice a year I have lab work done. Last time the IMSS lab said I was 'pre-diabetic'. I went to an outside lab (very nice facility) and they said 'no'. Whatever drugs I pick up at the IMSS pharmacy are available at any pharmacy without a prescription. At the same time - the cost of those drugs would almost be equal to the annual cost of the IMSS insurance. Controlled drugs can be rather expensive in Mexico - both for the drug itself and for the doctor who would write the prescription. 

I'm only saying all this to point out that medical care in Mexico - while probaby cheaper - is not free - and is not quite the same thing as in the US.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

horseshoe846 said:


> I'm only saying all this to point out that medical care in Mexico - while probaby cheaper - is not free - and is not quite the same thing as in the US.


Has anyone on this thread implied that medical care in Mexico is free? What is not the same thing as in the US, medical care or medical insurance?


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

GrayGeek said:


> All of that said does anyone have an Idea what current Seguro Popular premiums are for a fairly healthy 69 year old male?


Seguro Popular is means tested.

IF you rent (even if it is a palace) it is free.

For us - IMSS is a much better solution than SP.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> Has anyone on this thread implied that medical care in Mexico is free? What is not the same thing as in the US, medical care or medical insurance?


Please re-read my post.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Dr. Simi (Farmacias de Similares) carries generic medicine that may or may not have the same effects as quality-controlled generics and brand-name drugs. I've never seen Farmacia Guadalajara in Mexico City. I buy mine at my local Superama pharmacy - ...


Many years ago I needed Salbutamol because I ran out. I bought an aerosol spray labeled Salbutamol at Similares - their brand name for $20.00 pesos. I used it for a couple of days without getting any relief and then read my regular spray container [inhaler] I took out of my trash container and it was 200 doses and had X micrograms and costs $70.00 pesos at the time. The Similares was labeled 100 doses and contained 1/20 th. of the micrograms of active ingredients of my regular brand. In other words instead of 2 sprays per dose I would need 40 to equal my regular spray. That was the last time I shopped at Similares for medicnes. Some people had warned me of Similares doing these tricks.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

There are differences between IMSS and Seguro Popular: IMSS charges a flat fee based on your age.
SP bases the fees on "means testing" but is pretty generous in their assessments. Often free. The biggest difference is that those with "pre existing conditions" are not covered for those conditions under IMSS, or there is a waiting period. This could be a problem for a diabetic. Seguro Popular will cover them.

"medivac" coverage is for those who have faith that they will receive better care in the U.S. and will be able to use their Medicare coverage. For them, they are advised to continue paying for Part B every month since there is a heavy penalty to sign up again if you drop it. Be aware that Medicare will not pay for treatment in Mexico except for certain emergencies when people are not permanent residents. All this information can be found with the help of Senor Google.

Personally, I don't exactly trust the "Similares" drugs and one poster did a good job of explaining why.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Many years ago I needed Salbutamol because I ran out. I bought an aerosol spray labeled Salbutamol at Similares - their brand name for $20.00 pesos. I used it for a couple of days without getting any relief and then read my regular spray container [inhaler] I took out of my trash container and it was 200 doses and had X micrograms and costs $70.00 pesos at the time. The Similares was labeled 100 doses and contained 1/20 th. of the micrograms of active ingredients of my regular brand. In other words instead of 2 sprays per dose I would need 40 to equal my regular spray. That was the last time I shopped at Similares for medicnes. Some people had warned me of Similares doing these tricks.


Our pharmacy of choice is FarmaPronto. They don't honor INAPAM but do have their own discount card. By us - the Similares stores usually have 'blasting' music and a big fat costumed person (as a doctor) dancing in the parking lot...

Superama is Sams is Walmart is ?? All ultimately the same company.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

lagoloo said:


> There are differences between IMSS and Seguro Popular: IMSS charges a flat fee based on your age.
> SP bases the fees on "means testing" but is pretty generous in their assessments. Often free. The biggest difference is that those with "pre existing conditions" are not covered for those conditions under IMSS, or there is a waiting period. This could be a problem for a diabetic. Seguro Popular will cover them.
> 
> "medivac" coverage is for those who have faith that they will receive better care in the U.S. and will be able to use their Medicare coverage. For them, they are advised to continue paying for Part B every month since there is a heavy penalty to sign up again if you drop it. Be aware that Medicare will not pay for treatment in Mexico except for certain emergencies when people are not permanent residents. All this information can be found with the help of Senor Google.
> ...


As has been pointed out in the past - those medivac coverages expect the patient to be 'stabilized' first. So - that is going to involve some treatment/cost - not covered by the medivac insurance.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> Why would I need medical evacuation insurance if medical care here is certainly equal to that found in the States and available at a reasonable cost?


My advice was directed to the original poster, rest assured it's not about you.

One of the recurring themes here on the forum is the various level of commitment some people have to living (and dying) in Mexico. Some are committed the way chickens are to breakfast, while others are committed like pigs are committed to breakfast.

My advice to people who have not yet moved here is to plan for a partial commitment initially rather than burning bridges on the way across. Jumping in the deep end is fine for getting used to a cold pool, but not as good for moving to a foreign country, because you know how well you can swim, but you don't know as well how you'll do in the foreign country.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

eastwind said:


> 1. My advice was directed to the original poster, rest assured it's not about you.
> 
> 2. One of the recurring themes here on the forum is the various level of commitment some people have to living (and dying) in Mexico. Some are committed the way chickens are to breakfast, while others are committed like pigs are committed to breakfast.
> 
> 3. My advice to people who have not yet moved here is to plan for a partial commitment initially rather than burning bridges on the way across. Jumping in the deep end is fine for getting used to a cold pool, but not as good for moving to a foreign country, because you know how well you can swim, but you don't know as well how you'll do in the foreign country.


1. It would have been useful to mention that in your post.

2. Not sure I understand your analogies, but then I've never lived on a farm!

3. Good advice!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> There are differences between IMSS and Seguro Popular: IMSS charges a flat fee based on your age.
> SP bases the fees on "means testing" but is pretty generous in their assessments. Often free. The biggest difference is that those with "pre existing conditions" are not covered for those conditions under IMSS, or there is a waiting period. This could be a problem for a diabetic. Seguro Popular will cover them.


IMSS will exclude you from joining for some chronic diseases. They have a 6 month, 1 year , 2 year and 3 year waiting period on other chronic diseases and treatments and operations needed, It depends on what condition you are in when applying. 


From the IMSS website: 

Exclusions to join:

Google Translation: 

"• not subject to insurance people who have: malignant tumors, chronic degenerative diseases (late complications of diabetes mellitus), diseases: Hoarding (Gaucher disease), chronic liver disease, kidney failure: • Some pre-existing, such as illness chronic valvular heart disease, heart failure, sequelae of ischemic heart disease (arrhythmia, angina or myocardial infarction), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease with respiratory failure, among others
• chronic systemic connective tissue diseases, addictions like alcoholism and other substance abuse, mental disorders such as psychosis and dementia; congenital and acquired immunodeficiency syndrome or Human Immunodeficiency Virus positive of diseases (HIV)" 



http://www.imss.gob.mx/tramites/imss02014


It also states there is a minmum of 2 family members to join. 

"Individual must be at least 2 people, the head of the family group and your immediate family, as spouse or concubine , children, father, mother, or your additional family members, such as grandparents, grandchildren, siblings, cousins, children of siblings, siblings of parents. If you are the owner of the family group and if you reside abroad, you can also purchase this insurance for your family." 

Seguro Popular takes legal residents of Mexico. Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente and anyone, any age can join with any pre-medical conditions and only about 2% of the 54,000,000 members pay an annual fee or pay on the 3 year contract for their family. Renters and people without a vehicle do not pay.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Correction:

"...members pay an annual fee or pay on the 3 year contract for their family."

It should be members who pay a fee only get a 1 year contract which is able to be reviewed yearly and assessment of the fee and members who do not pay a fee get a 3 year contract and assessment of a fee [or no fee ] every 3 years.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Correction:
> 
> "...members pay an annual fee or pay on the 3 year contract for their family."
> 
> It should be members who pay a fee only get a 1 year contract which is able to be reviewed yearly and assessment of the fee and members who do not pay a fee get a 3 year contract and assessment of a fee [or no fee ] every 3 years.


I don't understand what you have posted.

Sorry - all of these posts have me a bit confused. (And before I go further I believe an SP contract is good for 2 years, while an IMSS contract is good for 1 year).


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

horseshoe846 said:


> I don't understand what you have posted.
> 
> Sorry - all of these posts have me a bit confused. (And before I go further I believe an SP contract is good for 2 years, while an IMSS contract is good for 1 year).


No. SP is a 3 year contract for families who get onboard for free, not a 2 year contract. If the family pays a fee they only get a 1 year contract.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> No. SP is a 3 year contract for families who get onboard for free, not a 2 year contract. If the family pays a fee they get only a 1 year contract.


I'll accept that. But 5 years ago that was not the case. In fact - coming to Mexico with 'pre-existing' conditions we first signed up for SP - for a two year contract. Shortly thereafter we discovered IMSS. We never used any SP services. IMSS has never questioned our 'pre-exisiting' conditions. And yes - we are a family of two.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I can see how it would be confusing, since the logic of a free contract being good for three years whereas a paid membership is only good for one year doesn't seem to make sense. But that is the way it is. 
I am a member of Seguro Popular and haven't so far used the system, preferring to have a family doctor of my choice and pay out of pocket. It anything reallly serious (like major surgery) is needed, I'll use SP. 
Before signing up for either program, I'd suggest you go to one of the hospitals and check out the faciities of either SP or IMSS. It's not the same as a private U.S. hospital. For one thing, you need a famiy member (or paid person) to stay in your room and provide all the services a nurses' aide would do. 
It's interesting to note that the Mexican government is making some changes in the last few years and investing heavily in the Seguro Popular system. There is some merging of services with IMSS, too.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

lagoloo said:


> I can see how it would be confusing, since the logic of a free contract being good for three years whereas a paid membership is only good for one year doesn't seem to make sense. But that is the way it is.
> I am a member of Seguro Popular and haven't so far used the system, preferring to have a family doctor of my choice and pay out of pocket. It anything reallly serious (like major surgery) is needed, I'll use SP.
> Before signing up for either program, I'd suggest you go to one of the hospitals and check out the faciities of either SP or IMSS. It's not the same as a private U.S. hospital. For one thing, you need a famiy member (or paid person) to stay in your room and provide all the services a nurses' aide would do.
> It's interesting to note that the Mexican government is making some changes in the last few years and investing heavily in the Seguro Popular system. There is some merging of services with IMSS, too.


So the REAL bottom line answer to any Mexican health related issue (on this website) is - you are on your own. 

The TRUTH is - it depends in a LARGE way - where you are living. No ?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Similares are not necessarily the same as generics, which may be purchased at virtually all farmacias, so be sure to know the generic name and dosage of the medication you need. The proprietary name may be unfamiliar, or unavailable & will always be much more expensive.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> It also states there is a minmum of 2 family members to join.


A couple of years ago I joined IMSS as a single person.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> A couple of years ago I joined IMSS as a single person.


I´m sure there are exceptions for older people, widowers, divorcees, etc..

 I thinks that policy is for families where one member already belongs to ISSSTE or Seguro Popular and they don´t want single people to join only enrol in their family medical plan to keep the different members of a family unit from using ISSSTE or Seguro Popular instead of all belonging to the same system. Head of family usually means the husband or father with dependants but can mean mother with dependants if there is no father in the household.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I´m sure there are exceptions for older people, widowers, divorcees, etc.


No one gave me a hard time about it when I went to sign up. Maybe the exceptions you mention should be added to the IMSS website.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> No one gave me a hard time about it when I went to sign up. Maybe the exceptions you mention should be added to the IMSS website.


Updaing Mexican goverment websites: In June when I was staying with my Expat friend there we checked online to get the address of the SRE there. He was moving to the Phillipines and wanted some information from them. We went to the website address. There was no SRE office in this 2 story commercial building but was an IFC [International Friendship Club] office and meeting room. I went in and asked about the SRE office. He said they moved over 4 years ago to the Palacio Municipal. :doh:


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> Updaing Mexican goverment websites: I June when I was staying with my Exapt friend there we check online to get the adress of the SRE there. He was moving to the Phillipines and wanted some information from them. We went to the website adress. There was no SRE office in this 2 story comercial building but was aa IFC [International Friendship Club] office and meetin room. I went in and asked about the SRE office. He said they moved over 4 years ago to the Palacio Municipal. :doh:


Why does this not surprise me in the least!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Why does this not surprise me in the least!


There was Puerto Vallarta. 

Some Mexican government websites are pathetically outdated. Some SRE Mexican Consulates´ websites still have information about financial solvency from 4 years ago before they lowered the minimums.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> IMSS will exclude you from joining for some chronic diseases. They have a 6 month, 1 year , 2 year and 3 year waiting period on other chronic diseases and treatments and operations needed, It depends on what condition you are in when applying.
> 
> 
> From the IMSS website:
> ...


So there is no way a single person can join IMSS, if I read your post correctly?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> So there is no way a single person can join IMSS, if I read your post correctly?


That page must be talking about a family membership, but there are also individual memberships.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> So there is no way a single person can join IMSS, if I read your post correctly?



Anuncia Seguro Popular 'limpia' de 170 mil afiliados dobleteros :: El Informador

Google Translation:

"GUADALAJARA, JALISCO (29 APR / 2016) .- One of the goals of Seguro Popular at the federal level is to eliminate affiliates who have duplicate services; That is, they are enrolled in this program, but also have social security, such as IMSS or ISSSTE

At the Editorial Board, with the National Commissioner of the Popular Insurance, Gabriel J. O'Shea Cuevas, confirmed that this year has the plan to withdraw the affiliation to 1.5 million people in this situation throughout the country, but another similar amount In 2017.

If we land the depuration in Jalisco, the goal is to eliminate 170 thousand doubleteros this year, as well as 100 thousand in the next.

"The problem of duplicity is not that the patient draws an appendix in the Civil or Medical Center (Western IMSS), the issue is that each institution is paying for that Mexican. I pay the cost per capita for every Mexican that has Seguro Popular, which is 3 thousand 037 pesos each year. " "

I speculated when Marsha questioned that rule and think it has to do with keeping the family members in one Socialized Medicine system not duplicating services for some enrolled in 2 as this screws up the budget for these different sytems as reported above.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Seguro Popular has always been for those legal residents without other medical insurance.

I have never heard that a single person would be prohibited from joining IMSS, if they qualify medically and are legal residents of Mexico.


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## Tinaco (Jun 4, 2017)

You should be able to live well for that much. 
I'll include some estimated costs that may help. 
- rents 
500-900 usd for apartments (a lot have their own patios and gardens and some include all the bills. 
800-1000+ Usd for homes. You usually pay your own utilities. If you are unlucky and have an a$$hole landlord you pay for renovations as well but not all are bad. 

-maid (50 pesos an hour) 

- gardener (200-500+ pesos a week depending on the size of your garden) some homes may include the garnener in the rent 

- Telmex (internet/phone) runs around 400 pesos a month. The speed is mostly around 10 mb down and less than one mb up. You can pay more but you won't get more speed. 

- power. This can be random and personally I find even if you consume the same your bill may be 3000+ pesos in one house or just 400 in another. If you have to pay your own power ask for historicals and stay away from homes with pools that don't have solar installed. Power is usually every two months. 

-gas (depends on usage but id say probably around 800 pesos a month. Could be less) 

- eating out (100-200 pesos for a main dish, 30 pesos for a beer, 70 pesos for a glass of wine) there are much cheaper places if you like Mexican food. 

- car (5000 pesos a year for insurance) gas usage and type of car depend on your budged and how much you drive. 
-car maintenance (much cheaper than in the us. Parts are about the same if not slightly more expensive)


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Tinaco said:


> You should be able to live well for that much.
> I'll include some estimated costs that may help.
> - rents
> 500-900 usd for apartments (a lot have their own patios and gardens and some include all the bills.
> ...


The only estimate that I would quibble with is the rent you quoted 9000 to 16,200 pesos for an apartment and 14,400 to 18,000 for a house. I don't know about beach towns but in the interior you can find places for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.

The electricity can vary for the same consumption in one case that I know of. There is a surcharge for people who use a lot of electricity. If you get into the surcharge rate, it continues for a year even if your consumption drops below the threshold. So the bill could be much higher for someone who is paying the surcharge rate, called DAC, than for someone who never got into the higher category, even if both use the same amount in one two-month period. The rates are clear and it is not arbitrary.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> The only estimate that I would quibble with is the rent you quoted 9000 to 16,200 pesos for an apartment and 14,400 to 18,000 for a house. I don't know about beach towns but in the interior you can find places for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.
> 
> The electricity can vary for the same consumption in one case that I know of. There is a surcharge for people who use a lot of electricity. If you get into the surcharge rate, it continues for a year even if your consumption drops below the threshold. So the bill could be much higher for someone who is paying the surcharge rate, called DAC, than for someone who never got into the higher category, even if both use the same amount in one two-month period. The rates are clear and it is not arbitrary.


I have to agree. We found huge, beautiful 4 bedroom houses in Queretaro with gardens, pools and gym memberships for less than $15,000 MXP ($840 USD) per month. 

In Mexico City the same house costs $40,000 /mo.

Location, location, location.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

There are several advantages (as well as disadvantages) to living in a rural area. We get a substantial discount on our electricity. Our last CFE bill, for two months was $454 MXN. And we have numerous appliances and computers on "ready mode" all the time. I also use nighttime lighting a lot.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> The only estimate that I would quibble with is the rent you quoted 9000 to 16,200 pesos for an apartment and 14,400 to 18,000 for a house. I don't know about beach towns but in the interior you can find places for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.
> 
> The electricity can vary for the same consumption in one case that I know of. There is a surcharge for people who use a lot of electricity. If you get into the surcharge rate, it continues for a year even if your consumption drops below the threshold. So the bill could be much higher for someone who is paying the surcharge rate, called DAC, than for someone who never got into the higher category, even if both use the same amount in one two-month period. The rates are clear and it is not arbitrary.


Not be be argumentative - but that is not my understanding. The computation for DAC is on a rolling 12 month (6 bi-monthly) periods. If you 'roll' into DAC, you can also roll out of DAC by dropping your usage. It does not take a year to roll out.

In our case the previous owners were hardly ever here. That was good for us - because we were energy hogs - running our pool filter as we did in Florida (virtually always). So - we could be 'bad' for the better part of a year before going into DAC. Since their usage was basically zero. We opted for a PV system within that first year.

Google easily pulls up the CFE DAC table for the various 'zones' in Mexico. We are in Zone 1 which allows us 250 kwh/month. That is the least lenient zone. I 'think' the zones are based on what CFE judges as the climate in your area - nothing to do with urban/rural. For example - I think PV or Cancun are probably in a much more lenient zone. We are in Zone 1 because we have more or less temperate climate.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

horseshoe846 said:


> Not be be argumentative - but that is not my understanding. The computation for DAC is on a rolling 12 month (6 bi-monthly) periods. If you 'roll' into DAC, you can also roll out of DAC by dropping your usage. It does not take a year to roll out.
> 
> …


"Esta tarifa se aplica cuando el consumo bimestral promedio registrado en los últimos 12 meses es superior de acuerdo a la siguiente tabla:"
1	500 kWh/ bimestre
1A	600 kWh/ bimestre
1B	800 kWh/ bimestre
1C	1,700 kWh/ bimestre
1D	2,000 kWh/ bimestre
1E	4,000 kWh/ bimestre
1F	5,000 kWh/ bimestre

Translation: The DAC rate applies if your average bimonthly usage for the past 12 months exceeds the figure in the table.

So, you are correct, it is not a year to get out of DAC. One just has to get the average for the previous year under the limit.


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## GrayGeek (Aug 2, 2017)

Thanks ! I think I'd rather be futrher west and be in Jalisco.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> "Esta tarifa se aplica cuando el consumo bimestral promedio registrado en los últimos 12 meses es superior de acuerdo a la siguiente tabla:"
> 1	500 kWh/ bimestre
> 1A	600 kWh/ bimestre
> 1B	800 kWh/ bimestre
> ...


But - it is very astute of you to point out that someone can 'inherit' the bad practices from previous owners/renters. I think the history is based on the meter. Also - in many (if not all) regions there is a winter/summer rate for kwh. That also seems to differ from locale to locale (versus zone to zone) ?? 

So - it might be worth someone's time before buying/renting to request the last 6 CFE bills - flip them over - and have a look at trends. 

Finally - for those on a really tight budget - apparently they adjust the cost per kwh seasonally (6 months on/ 6 months off) - at least in some locales. 

Just mentioning it to avoid unexpected surprises. 

Since installing our PV system our bills have never exceeded 50 pesos/2 months. We are living off what we produce, and what we have accumulated to that point. We just added a very small box type freezer to the house. We will have to see if that has any major affect.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

It’s important to note that although Seguro Popular will cover every qualified person who registers – no person will be excluded for pre-existing conditions – it doesn’t cover all medical needs. There is a finite list of services and diseases that are covered. For example kidney dialysis is not on the list.


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## FoxIslander (Jun 10, 2014)

I've never understood the snide comments regarding Lake Chapala. Obviously a LOT of people enjoy living there and from my visits there, there are many wonderful locals to interact with. For a new arrival to Mexico, it offers a certain degree of safety and familiarity in the ability to join some of the many clubs and activities.


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