# Mexico City revisited



## vencer (Dec 4, 2011)

We're thinking about retiring in Mexico City where we lived 40 years ago. My husband and I are in our late 60's early 70's and looking for a better life style when we quit work this summer. Back then Mexico City was affordable, but we hear that housing has risen to where it has become unaffordable. Household live in help used to be extremely affordable, but that too seems to have risen. We're looking to find a charming 2 bedroom condo or apartment in a safe neighborhood for under $1000/month. Can anyone give us ideas on where to look??


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2011)

Santa Fe is a nice, safe area of Mexico City. There are several parks, lots of shopping nearby, and lots of security. A quick Google showed 2 bdrm apartments in the MX$10k range (= about US$ 750, and there are probably maintenance costs on top of that). I saw this example on the Trovit website.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GringoCArlos said:


> Santa Fe is a nice, safe area of Mexico City. There are several parks, lots of shopping nearby, and lots of security. A quick Google showed 2 bdrm apartments in the MX$10k range (= about US$ 750, and there are probably maintenance costs on top of that). I saw this example on the Trovit website.


Santa Fe is a part of the city for people who don't really want to live in Mexico City. Of course, if what you're interested in is fancy shopping malls and apartment towers, then it might fit the bill. It's far away from all the attractions that the city offers, cultural and otherwise, and I would not recommend it at all. But that's just me. There are plenty of parts of the city that are safe and have convenient shopping, where you could find an apartment within the OPs price range, for example, like my neighborhood.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Interesting concept*



vencer said:


> We're thinking about retiring in Mexico City where we lived 40 years ago. My husband and I are in our late 60's early 70's and looking for a better life style when we quit work this summer. Back then Mexico City was affordable, but we hear that housing has risen to where it has become unaffordable. Household live in help used to be extremely affordable, but that too seems to have risen. We're looking to find a charming 2 bedroom condo or apartment in a safe neighborhood for under $1000/month. Can anyone give us ideas on where to look??




Most folks need to live near a big city because that's where the jobs are . If you are going to try to retire in the largest city in the world , you will have several things working against you including the crime , pollution and highest living costs .

Oddly enough , Craigslist is one of the better places to find condos online .

mexico city pisos en alquiler classifieds - craigslist


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> Most folks need to live near a big city because that's where the jobs are . If you are going to try to retire in the largest city in the world , you will have several things working against you including the crime , pollution and highest living costs .


Do you live in Mexico City, jasavak? I do and can assure you that crime is not any worse here than it is in many large cities in the US. In fact, I feel a lot safer living here than I did living in Philadelphia. It's true that there is a certain amount of air pollution that you have to deal with, but the situation is much, much better than it was even ten years ago. I can't compare living costs with the rest of Mexico, but I do know that I can live here quite well on my modest pension checks, something I could not do back in the US. And certain things, like public transportation, are cheaper than they are in many other parts of Mexico.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> And certain things, like public transportation, are cheaper than they are in many other parts of Mexico.


The subway is free for those of us of a certain age.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> The subway is free for those of us of a certain age.


And even if you have to pay, it's only 3 pesos a ride, which right now is about 20 US cents! Of course, the Metrobus is rather expensive at a whole 5 pesos  .


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*All cities in general*



Isla Verde said:


> Do you live in Mexico City, jasavak? I do and can assure you that crime is not any worse here than it is in many large cities in the US. In fact, I feel a lot safer living here than I did living in Philadelphia. It's true that there is a certain amount of air pollution that you have to deal with, but the situation is much, much better than it was even ten years ago. I can't compare living costs with the rest of Mexico, but I do know that I can live here quite well on my modest pension checks, something I could not do back in the US. And certain things, like public transportation, are cheaper than they are in many other parts of Mexico.



Nothing against Mexico City . All large cities have the same problems including Detroit , Chicago , NYC and Los Angeles . People want to be in the city because that's where the jobs are . If I'm retiring I am no longer restricted to the cities . D.F. cost of living is less the most U.S. cities , but much higher than most areas in Mexico .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> Nothing against Mexico City . All large cities have the same problems including Detroit , Chicago , NYC and Los Angeles . People want to be in the city because that's where the jobs are . If I'm retiring I am no longer restricted to the cities . D.F. cost of living is less the most U.S. cities , but much higher than most areas in Mexico .


Your previous post certainly sounded like you do have something against Mexico City, likely a place you haven't spent much or any time in recently. All big cities are not the same, by the way. How on earth can you compare a world-class city like New York with Detroit, of all places? By the way, I'm not living here for work since I am almost completely retired. I live here because I like it. But not everyone enjoys life in humongous cities, and apparently you are one of those people. By the way, where do you live in Mexico? It would be interesting to compare my cost of living with yours, and you might find that life is pretty affordable here after all.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*One Peso Metro*



Isla Verde said:


> And even if you have to pay, it's only 3 pesos a ride, which right now is about 20 US cents! Of course, the Metrobus is rather expensive at a whole 5 pesos  .


I remember riding the Metro for a peso when the exchange rate was 180 to 1 . 1/2 a cent to ride the Metro .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> I remember riding the Metro for a peso when the exchange rate was 180 to 1 . 1/2 a cent to ride the Metro .


Well, like everything else in Mexico, prices for public transportation have gone up over the years. That's nothing like the $2.50 US you have to pay to ride the NYC subway.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Leon , GTO*



Isla Verde said:


> Your previous post certainly sounded like you do have something against Mexico City, likely a place you haven't spent much or any time in recently. All big cities are not the same, by the way. How on earth can you compare a world-class city like New York with Detroit, of all places? By the way, I'm not living here for work since I am almost completely retired. I live here because I like it. But not everyone enjoys life in humongous cities, and apparently you are one of those people. By the way, where do you live in Mexico? It would be interesting to compare my cost of living with yours, and you might find that life is pretty affordable here after all.



I'll be in Leon , GTO . next week . . Same problems . Cat burglars jumping roofs to steal anything that's not bolted down . The city smells like something is constantly burning and the cost of real estate is at least 50 % higher than most of Mexico . You have to keep your car inside a locked gate after dark if you plan on keeping it . Punks with machetes will try to jump you if walk alone at night . My friend opened a small store and within two weeks thieves smashed the brick wall with a sledge hammer to steal all the inventory and 8,000 pesos hidden inside . He sold the store to his brother in law and they got robbed the next month by three men with guns at dusk . Another big city and not for me .


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Not comparing cities*



Isla Verde said:


> Your previous post certainly sounded like you do have something against Mexico City, likely a place you haven't spent much or any time in recently. All big cities are not the same, by the way. How on earth can you compare a world-class city like New York with Detroit, of all places? By the way, I'm not living here for work since I am almost completely retired. I live here because I like it. But not everyone enjoys life in humongous cities, and apparently you are one of those people. By the way, where do you live in Mexico? It would be interesting to compare my cost of living with yours, and you might find that life is pretty affordable here after all.



I wasn't comparing cities . Just noting that they all have their problems . 

In NYC paying $5,000 a month for a 1-bedroom apartment is a problem . In Detroit the rents are lower but there is a new set up problems . 

Most retired people are migrating away from the cities to avoid paying these costs . I love to visit the city , but I don't want to pay the price . In other words , I can't stand the heat , so I left the kitchen .


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

jasavak said:


> ... Most retired people are migrating away from the cities to avoid paying these costs ....


Is that true? What is the evidence? Not disputing the fact, I just wonder if it has been documented. There has been a trend of people moving to warmer climes (Arizona and Florida) for retirement for a long time. For decades, people have moved out of cities to the suburbs to raise families. 

I have lived in cities most of my adult life. For many years, I had a reverse commute because my office was in the suburbs. It is a matter of personal preference.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*Depends on the City*

This is very interesting. We now live in Baltimore, but for 12 years lived in Haverford, PA, a Philadelphia western suburb, while the kids were in elementary, middle and high school - better school systems, etc. We always said that when they went off to college we'd move into center city Philadelphia, because there was much more to do, places to walk to, concert halls, legitimate theater, decent public transit and it made life interesting. (BTW-we are NYC natives).

But then a job took us to Baltimore, where we've been for the last 18 years. The kids are out of high school, out of college and working now, but even before we decided on retiring to Mexico, there were no plans to move into the city of Baltimore. Not because of crime, per se, but because there is nothing to do, if you are of a certain age. Unlike center city Phila. the city of Baltimore is divided into enclaves by age, demographic, income levels and so the feeling of "the City" does not come thru. If there is no ball game in town, the sidewalks roll up at 9:00. The symphony and theater are located in one place, the ball parks in another, restaurants in yet another place and there is no 'interconnection" like Phila or NYC. Oh, and mass transit is a joke - derided as only used by those that can't afford cars, not the great equalizer like the New York City subway.

So, would I retire to DF or even Guad? probably not. Nothing to do with crime, pollution or less to do with COL, but, being as ignorant of them as I am, at first glance it seems more like Baltimore than Phila or Manhattan. 

:boxing: OK everyone - take your best shot at closed minded me!!!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> I'll be in Leon , GTO . next week . . Same problems . Cat burglars jumping roofs to steal anything that's not bolted down . The city smells like something is constantly burning and the cost of real estate is at least 50 % higher than most of Mexico . You have to keep your car inside a locked gate after dark if you plan on keeping it . Punks with machetes will try to jump you if walk alone at night . My friend opened a small store and within two weeks thieves smashed the brick wall with a sledge hammer to steal all the inventory and 8,000 pesos hidden inside . He sold the store to his brother in law and they got robbed the next month by three men with guns at dusk . Another big city and not for me .


Well, as I said in a previous post, not all cities are the same. It sounds like Leon has lots of problems, and is nothing like the part of Mexico City I live in, which is not elegant, just a pleasant middle-class area in the center of the city.

While it doesn't smell like you're living in the country where I live, it doesn't smell like things are burning all the time either. I don't have a car, but many of my neighbors do, and some of them park them on the street safely. Punks with machetes, wow! Sounds like someone has a wild imagination or else is living in a really rough part of town. While I wouldn't go out alone after midnight, I have walked to the local supermarket around 10 and walked home carrying a couple of bags of groceries and arrived home in one piece, and in peace. Sorry to hear about your friend's store and the guy who was robbed at dusk. Of course, things like that can happen in Mexico City in certain neighborhoods, and even in idyllic small towns and villages. Maybe I live in a bubble here in the big bad city, but things like that have never happened to me or to people I know.

Anyway, take care of yourself.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Leon*



Isla Verde said:


> Well, as I said in a previous post, not all cities are the same. It sounds like Leon has lots of problems, and is nothing like the part of Mexico City I live in, which is not elegant, just a pleasant middle-class area in the center of the city.
> 
> While it doesn't smell like you're living in the country where I live, it doesn't smell like things are burning all the time either. I don't have a car, but many of my neighbors do, and some of them park them on the street safely. Punks with machetes, wow! Sounds like someone has a wild imagination or else is living in a really rough part of town. While I wouldn't go out alone after midnight, I have walked to the local supermarket around 10 and walked home carrying a couple of bags of groceries and arrived home in one piece, and in peace. Sorry to hear about your friend's store and the guy who was robbed at dusk. Of course, things like that can happen in Mexico City in certain neighborhoods, and even in idyllic small towns and villages. Maybe I live in a bubble here in the big bad city, but things like that have never happened to me or to people I know.
> 
> Anyway, take care of yourself.


Leon is the center for shoe manufacturing. The smell is the leather tanneries. They use acid and there is a smell of burning hair when near a tannery that is unpleasant. Add many tanneries it probably will be all over the city. Leon does have a good reputation as far as I have heard, not what is described here. All cities I frequent do have problems with break and enter. I might think this is an exaggeration and dramatic. The store could be in a gang infested neighborhood and sometimes the gangs will extort from local owners.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> Leon is the center for shoe manufacturing. The smell is the leather tanneries. They use acid and there is a smell of burning hair when near a tannery that is unpleasant. Add many tanneries it probably will be all over the city. Leon does have a good reputation as far as I have heard, not what is described here. All cities I frequent do have problems with break and enter. I might think this is an exaggeration and dramatic. The store could be in a gang infested neighborhood and sometimes the gangs will extort from local owners.


Of course, I should have realized that the shoe f actoriesthat are Leon's claim to fame could also be the source of the unpleasant smell that jasavak mentioned.

I have learned that sometimes when posters appear to be going "over the top" with complaints about a particular city or about Mexico in general, it is a reflection of a bad personal situation and not a true picture of the place in general. Even though I love my neighborhood and feel safe here, there have been a few cases of breaking and entering, and even a robbery at the laundromat next to my building. I agree that the store could have been located in a bad neighborhood where things like that are likely to happen.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*ad neighborhoods*



Isla Verde said:


> Of course, I should have realized that the shoe f actoriesthat are Leon's claim to fame could also be the source of the unpleasant smell that jasavak mentioned.
> 
> I have learned that sometimes when posters appear to be going "over the top" with complaints about a particular city or about Mexico in general, it is a reflection of a bad personal situation and not a true picture of the place in general. Even though I love my neighborhood and feel safe here, there have been a few cases of breaking and entering, and even a robbery at the laundromat next to my building. I agree that the store could have been located in a bad neighborhood where things like that are likely to happen.


I have talked to people, several of which have literally felt threaten for themselves and children, especially them, in their homes. Not due to direct contact with gang members, but because of where they bought their houses. Gangs are a problem in SOME areas. One neighbor's daughter who lives with her young son had felt it wise to more back to her parents house. She is a teacher and makes enough to buy another house in a better neighborhood the moment she can sell her paid off house. Guess how long she as had it on the market and wants what she put into it. 51/2 years and no bidders yet. This is in Mexicali.

Other friends in TJ have rented their houses and have bought in new residencias with monthly payments and have had nothing but trouble keeping their houses rented in east TJ [gang central]. One finally just let a cousin live there for free. Most streets there are divided up between different gangs and fighting for territory is common they said. Extorting local businesses and even residence is all the gossip daily. The families with gang members are outcasts. They have news when we used to work together that was a good place to buy into when they first started out because a little money bought a great place compared to other areas. After years they found out they didn't want their school aged children living that life any longer. After 15 years all has changed in some areas gradually.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Migration*



TundraGreen said:


> Is that true? What is the evidence? Not disputing the fact, I just wonder if it has been documented. There has been a trend of people moving to warmer climes (Arizona and Florida) for retirement for a long time. For decades, people have moved out of cities to the suburbs to raise families.
> 
> I have lived in cities most of my adult life. For many years, I had a reverse commute because my office was in the suburbs. It is a matter of personal preference.



The current trend is young people moving in to cities , and retirees moving to less urban areas where they can stretch their dollar . Others move to mountains or beach to enjoy a change of scenery . Yes , New Yorkers move to Florida suburbs . Some of the same reasons why people emigrate to Mexico or Panama. Here is a report from the Department of Agriculture (USDA) http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/err79/err79.pdf


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> The current trend is young people moving in to cities , and retirees moving to less urban areas where they can stretch their dollar .


That depends, and I know that anecdotes are not as reliable as official statistics, at least not always, but . . In Philadelphia, there has been a trend in recent years for older folks, often retired, to move back into the nicer parts of the city, back from the suburbs where they raised their families. That way they can enjoy the culture and nice restaurants and other things the city offers, and don't need a car since public transportation is fairly good there. The mother of one of my best friends in Philly did this a few years ago, and she is quite happy with her choice.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Area of the city*



Isla Verde said:


> Well, as I said in a previous post, not all cities are the same. It sounds like Leon has lots of problems, and is nothing like the part of Mexico City I live in, which is not elegant, just a pleasant middle-class area in the center of the city.
> 
> While it doesn't smell like you're living in the country where I live, it doesn't smell like things are burning all the time either. I don't have a car, but many of my neighbors do, and some of them park them on the street safely. Punks with machetes, wow! Sounds like someone has a wild imagination or else is living in a really rough part of town. While I wouldn't go out alone after midnight, I have walked to the local supermarket around 10 and walked home carrying a couple of bags of groceries and arrived home in one piece, and in peace. Sorry to hear about your friend's store and the guy who was robbed at dusk. Of course, things like that can happen in Mexico City in certain neighborhoods, and even in idyllic small towns and villages. Maybe I live in a bubble here in the big bad city, but things like that have never happened to me or to people I know.
> 
> Anyway, take care of yourself.



I think the area you are in is one of the premium areas . My family lives in an area that scores 5 out of 10 . There are areas that don't have these problems , but a new problem emerges when the cost of real estate doubles or triples . My friend that got robbed is not a guy , her name is Martha . The punk showed me his machete while he was high on glue . The name of the street was Gavilan and the colony Sta. Rita de los Naranjos. It took place on a Saturday night at around 11pm .


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Leather Tanneries*



AlanMexicali said:


> Leon is the center for shoe manufacturing. The smell is the leather tanneries. They use acid and there is a smell of burning hair when near a tannery that is unpleasant. Add many tanneries it probably will be all over the city. Leon does have a good reputation as far as I have heard, not what is described here. All cities I frequent do have problems with break and enter. I might think this is an exaggeration and dramatic. The store could be in a gang infested neighborhood and sometimes the gangs will extort from local owners.




The tanneries are located on the opposite side of town near the bus station. They process leather for shoes , jackets , purses ect . The shoe manufacturing uses glues and a few other chemicals , but nothing like the tanneries . The smell is car exhaust , burning tires , construction scraps being used for cooking and probably some shoe glue . Is it an exaggeration ? They stole the damn birds in their cages to sell them for 100 pesos . They stole the copper tubing used for the gas line . 20 years ago things were quiet , but the city has more than tripled in size .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> I think the area you are in is one of the premium areas . My family lives in an area that scores 5 out of 10 . There are areas that don't have these problems , but a new problem emerges when the cost of real estate doubles or triples . My friend that got robbed is not a guy , her name is Martha . The punk showed me his machete while he was high on glue . The name of the street was Gavilan and the colony Sta. Rita de los Naranjos. It took place on a Saturday night at around 11pm .


Not really. I don't live in Polanco or any of the Lomas where the elite, both Mexican and expat, tend to live. I just rent, so I have no idea what the cost of real estate is around here, but I pay $4000 a month for a small one-bedroom apartment. I don't know anything about Sta. Rita de los Naranjos, but it does sound like an unsavory neighborhood. (I just checked my Guia Roji for Mexico City and couldn't find colonia Sta. Rita de los Naranjos. What part of the city is it located in?) I've never seen anyone walking around here, or anywhere else I frequent, with a machete in hand! Maybe your family should move.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Burning tires*



jasavak said:


> The tanneries are located on the opposite side of town near the bus station. They process leather for shoes , jackets , purses ect . The shoe manufacturing uses glues and a few other chemicals , but nothing like the tanneries . The smell is car exhaust , burning tires , construction scraps being used for cooking and probably some shoe glue . Is it an exaggeration ? They stole the damn birds in their cages to sell them for 100 pesos . They stole the copper tubing used for the gas line . 20 years ago things were quiet , but the city has more than tripled in size .


They STILL burn tires there on a regular basis or just on holidays? I haven't been anywhere for 4 or 5 years where the police allowed that anymore. Rarely do they shoot guns in the air anymore on holidays that I have noticed.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Leon*



jasavak said:


> The tanneries are located on the opposite side of town near the bus station. They process leather for shoes , jackets , purses ect . The shoe manufacturing uses glues and a few other chemicals , but nothing like the tanneries . The smell is car exhaust , burning tires , construction scraps being used for cooking and probably some shoe glue . Is it an exaggeration ? They stole the damn birds in their cages to sell them for 100 pesos . They stole the copper tubing used for the gas line . 20 years ago things were quiet , but the city has more than tripled in size .


I live a 2 hours bus ride from Leon in San Luis. My wife spent 4 nights at a 3 state convention there 3 months ago. Now you have me motivated to take the bus there the next time my wife is in Mexico City for meetings for a few days, which is often, she leaves tonight for DF for one night. I want to see this for myself soon. I will be returning to SLP this Saturday from San Diego/Mexicali.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Isla Verde said:


> That depends, and I know that anecdotes are not as reliable as official statistics, at least not always, but . . In Philadelphia, there has been a trend in recent years for older folks, often retired, to move back into the nicer parts of the city, back from the suburbs where they raised their families. That way they can enjoy the culture and nice restaurants and other things the city offers, and don't need a car since public transportation is fairly good there. The mother of one of my best friends in Philly did this a few years ago, and she is quite happy with her choice.


That wasn't possible when I lived in Newtowne Square, west of Philadelphia. Downtown had some good restaurants and some theater, but was extremely dangerous at night. There weren't enough hotels to hold meetings or conventions.
Then, the city finally took over whole blocks and sold the townhouses for as little as $3,000 with the condition that you renovate and occupy. It worked and whole neighborhoods were in the process of being 'gentrified', when I was transferred to Boston in 1969.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Our bubbles*



Isla Verde said:


> Not really. I don't live in Polanco or any of the Lomas where the elite, both Mexican and expat, tend to live. I just rent, so I have no idea what the cost of real estate is around here, but I pay $4000 a month for a small one-bedroom apartment. I don't know anything about Sta. Rita de los Naranjos, but it does sound like an unsavory neighborhood. (I just checked my Guia Roji for Mexico City and couldn't find colonia Sta. Rita de los Naranjos. What part of the city is it located in?) I've never seen anyone walking around here, or anywhere else I frequent, with a machete in hand! Maybe your family should move.



We do live in our bubbles . We don't emigrate to areas in the city that score a "5" do we ? If the area , hotel , or service isn't in the top 20 % we don't give it a second thought . Why would we ? We are demanding consumers and we can afford to be selective . I do admit , I only saw one machete . The others just had butcher knives . I also never said it was infested with gangs . . There are around 10-12 punks per 200 homes . I said punks with machetes


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Rent prices*



Isla Verde said:


> Not really. I don't live in Polanco or any of the Lomas where the elite, both Mexican and expat, tend to live. I just rent, so I have no idea what the cost of real estate is around here, but I pay $4000 a month for a small one-bedroom apartment. I don't know anything about Sta. Rita de los Naranjos, but it does sound like an unsavory neighborhood. (I just checked my Guia Roji for Mexico City and couldn't find colonia Sta. Rita de los Naranjos. What part of the city is it located in?) I've never seen anyone walking around here, or anywhere else I frequent, with a machete in hand! Maybe your family should move.


My wife's aunt is renting a nice 3,000 square feet home for 5,000 pesos in a slightly better colony . My compadre was renting a 1-bedroom home for 800 pesos .


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Bon Fires*



AlanMexicali said:


> They STILL burn tires there on a regular basis or just on holidays? I haven't been anywhere for 4 or 5 years where the police allowed that anymore. Rarely do they shoot guns in the air anymore on holidays that I have noticed.


Most of the holiday bonfires were stopped by the fire dep . The smell I refer to is in the colder morning hours and is not related .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> We do live in our bubbles . We don't emigrate to areas in the city that score a "5" do we ? If the area , hotel , or service isn't in the top 20 % we don't give it a second thought . Why would we ? We are demanding consumers and we can afford to be selective . I do admit , I only saw one machete . The others just had butcher knives . I also never said it was infested with gangs . . There are around 10-12 punks per 200 homes . I said punks with machetes


I moved to this neighborhood several years ago because a friend of mine had lived here for many years, and I knew the area well. Also, he had an apartment I could rent from him without the hassle of looking for one on my own, finding a fiador, and so on. I don't know anything about scores that different parts of the city are given, and neither does he, but he's only lived here for over 30 years, so I guess he wouldn't know about such things. I am not a "demanding consumer" and live on a budget that allows me to have a pleasant place to live and to take advantage of all the cool (often free) things that living in a metropolis like Mexico City offers me. And while I guess it could be said that my apartment is in a "bubble", I venture out of it often, on foot and on public transportation. I travel all over the city and enjoy the areas that are not in the top 20%, however that is defined.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Tour of Leon*



AlanMexicali said:


> I live a 2 hours bus ride from Leon in San Luis. My wife spent 4 nights at a 3 state convention there 3 months ago. Now you have me motivated to take the bus there the next time my wife is in Mexico City for meetings for a few days, which is often, she leaves tonight for DF for one night. I want to see this for myself soon. I will be returning to SLP this Saturday from San Diego/Mexicali.


If you want to visit the tanneries look up " tenerias or curtidores. if you want to see the punks go to the area of San Miguel or Santa Rita . The colonies are located on the highway that leads to San Fransisco de rincon (Torres landa) . The time to find them is after midnight on the streets that run perpendicular to Torres Landa . If you want to find expats , you will find them in the colonies near Plaza Mayor .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> That wasn't possible when I lived in Newtowne Square, west of Philadelphia. Downtown had some good restaurants and some theater, but was extremely dangerous at night. There weren't enough hotels to hold meetings or conventions.
> Then, the city finally took over whole blocks and sold the townhouses for as little as $3,000 with the condition that you renovate and occupy. It worked and whole neighborhoods were in the process of being 'gentrified', when I was transferred to Boston in 1969.


I was born in Philly, but my parents "escaped" to the ur-working class suburb of Levittown in the 1950s. I grew up there and hated it, fleeing to various large (and larger) cities on 3 different continents as soon as I was able. I think I like Mexico City because it is the antithesis of the boring place I grew up in.

Anyway, though Philadelphia still has some dangerous neighborhoods, some best avoided even in the daytime, Center City, Society Hill and University City are great areas to visit and live in, along with many working class neighborhoods that have become gentrified over the last 20 years or so.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Leon*



jasavak said:


> If you want to visit the tanneries look up " tenerias or curtidores. if you want to see the punks go to the area of San Miguel or Santa Rita . The colonies are located on the highway that leads to San Fransisco de rincon (Torres landa) . The time to find them is after midnight on the streets that run perpendicular to Torres Landa . If you want to find expats , you will find them in the colonies near Plaza Mayor .


I will be taking taxis. If expats live near there is there a meeting place for expats near the Plaza? My wife stayed at the new Hotel Fiesta Americana and convention center there, and their department's 3 drivers are also trained body guards and they never go alone anywhere.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Leon expats*



AlanMexicali said:


> I will be taking taxis. If expats live near there is there a meeting place for expats near the Plaza? My wife stayed at the new Hotel Fiesta Americana and convention center there, and their department's 3 drivers are also trained body guards and they never go alone anywhere.



I don't know if there are any expat hang outs . We speak Spanish at home and I haven't seen very many expats in Leon . Why would anyone want to move to a big ugly city if they didn't have to ? Just kidding city people .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

jasavak said:


> Why would anyone want to move to a big ugly city if they didn't have to ? Just kidding city people .


Are you implying that all big cities are ugly? Maybe it's the same as my thinking that all suburbs are boring.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Standard of living*



Isla Verde said:


> I moved to this neighborhood several years ago because a friend of mine had lived here for many years, and I knew the area well. Also, he had an apartment I could rent from him without the hassle of looking for one on my own, finding a fiador, and so on. I don't know anything about scores that different parts of the city are given, and neither does he, but he's only lived here for over 30 years, so I guess he wouldn't know about such things. I am not a "demanding consumer" and live on a budget that allows me to have a pleasant place to live and to take advantage of all the cool (often free) things that living in a metropolis like Mexico City offers me. And while I guess it could be said that my apartment is in a "bubble", I venture out of it often, on foot and on public transportation. I travel all over the city and enjoy the areas that are not in the top 20%, however that is defined.



If a bus or taxi driver , factory worker earns $5,500 pesos per month , they aren't going to pay $4,000 for a 1-bedroom apartment . My sister-in-law rents her brand new 1-bedroom house out for 1,100 pesos. You are paying a premium , but you just didn't know it because you are accustomed to U.S. standards and prices . Of course we are demanding consumers . Why would want to relocate to a less than desirable area if we have other options ? For example , $500 a month in rent seems low to me , but 6500 pesos is very high for most Mexicans .


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*I said I was kidding .*



Isla Verde said:


> Are you implying that all big cities are ugly? Maybe it's the same as my thinking that all suburbs are boring.




Lol. I knew that one would strike a nerve .


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Rent*



jasavak said:


> If a bus or taxi driver , factory worker earns $5,500 pesos per month , they aren't going to pay $4,000 for a 1-bedroom apartment . My sister-in-law rents her brand new 1-bedroom house out for 1,100 pesos. You are paying a premium , but you just didn't know it because you are accustomed to U.S. standards and prices . Of course we are demanding consumers . Why would want to relocate to a less than desirable area if we have other options ? For example , $500 a month in rent seems low to me , but 6500 pesos is very high for most Mexicans .


That is reality for many friends I have made in Mexicali. They work hard. They earn, take home, about on average $1200.00 pesos a week each. They rent or own a 2 bedroom URBI in the farthest from El Centro suburbs near the factories. Their rents or payments are $1000.00 pesos per month. Many can not afford to drive a car, unless the wife works or the ex husband gives them money to help support her and her/his children. That is rare and most of their neighbors and friends are in the same situation. Factory workers in Mexicali are not paid a living salary to live a life we as Americans recognizes as being optional. They HAVE to live in gang infested neighborhoods or communally with 2 families sharing a small house in a decent area of town. Two friends I know; one has her mother and the other her parents living with them sleeping on the floor.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Life on 1200 pesos a week.*



AlanMexicali said:


> That is reality for many friends I have made in Mexicali. They work hard. They earn, take home, about on average $1200.00 pesos a week each. They rent or own a 2 bedroom URBI in the farthest from El Centro suburbs near the factories. Their rents or payments are $1000.00 pesos per month. Many can not afford to drive a car, unless the wife works or the ex husband gives them money to help support her and her/his children. That is rare and most of their neighbors and friends are in the same situation. Factory workers in Mexicali are not paid a living salary to live a life we as Americans recognizes as being optional. They HAVE to live in gang infested neighborhoods or communally with 2 families sharing a small house in a decent area of town. Two friends I know; one has her mother and the other her parents living with them sleeping on the floor.



Years ago , things were even worse . My wife said the children had to sleep sideways , four to a bed. There was no water for the first couple of years and their only bathroom was a hole they dug that opened to the sewer . Pay is $1,200- $1,500 per week for almost everyone except my friend who works as a number cruncher for the state of Guanajuato . Most small 1-bedroom homes Rent for $800- $1,000 on the outskirts and $1,000 - $1,500 closer to the center . Automobile ownership used to be very low , however it's become more popular . Some people own cars , but take the bus or ride a bicycle to work to save on gas .


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

jasavak said:


> Years ago , things were even worse . My wife said the children had to sleep sideways , four to a bed. There was no water for the first couple of years and their only bathroom was a hole they dug that opened to the sewer . Pay is $1,200- $1,500 per week for almost everyone except my friend who works as a number cruncher for the state of Guanajuato . Most small 1-bedroom homes Rent for $800- $1,000 on the outskirts and $1,000 - $1,500 closer to the center . Automobile ownership used to be very low , however it's become more popular . Some people own cars , but take the bus or ride a bicycle to work to save on gas .


What I have described as the friends I made back in around 2005 to 2008 I feel you experience a sense of similar experiences and do not explain all things with words typed on a forum like this, just like me. One of my statements is not accurate. I have worked with dozens of people from TJ over the years who commuted it car pools and we chat. The situation they describe in east TJ, my first post to address some neighborhoods there and Mexicali was hearsay from my TJ friends. My firsthand experience in Mexicali in 2 URBI communities is different.

First the gang members were youths with a few older ones. Second the families did no become outcasts at all. They were just parents and had friends there. Third these gangs did not rob people or usually houses there and generally got along with everyone, I don't think they were into violence per se, maybe once in awhile. The thing most people did was not make enemies of any of them. One is your enemy, all are your enemies. Example: did not call police, didn't complain about Rageton very loud at a house or outside at any hour of the day or night. Didn't talk smack about them to others. Etc. So even though there were many and everywhere, obviously, it was not a dangerous place and generally things did not get stolen. Now what they did elsewhere nobody cared. The tagging was a problem if your household was not liked for whatever reason. I was told things about it but usually chatted about other things and even when things happened it would blow over. The houses are crammed in close to each other and most didn't have fences except used wood or chain link to keep the dog and children it.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Firsthand experience*

My firsthand experience in Mexicali in 2 URBI communities is different.



I've had plenty of first hand experience and I enjoy learning how things work in the community . Some people thought I was making up stories to make things look worse that they are , but I wasn't . I have no beef where people call their home , because everyone has their reason why they chose their area . My problem is sometimes I assume people know what I know about things . For example , I thought everyone knew that it's common for people to migrate away from large cities to more affordable or greener pastures . I also assumed that expats in Mexico realized that they spend more on housing than 75-80 % of Mexicans because our dollar goes farther .


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## scubakevin (Jun 22, 2011)

Hello Vencer,

My wife and I moved back to the City full time about 3 months ago, she did 2 masters here in Mexico City at UNAM and this was my first home arriving to Mexico City in 1995. We have lived in Pachuca 90 minutes from Mexico City, very quiet, at night, no night life, no good restaurants and very reasonable rents, many of the crowds from Mexico City are migrating to that area which was settled by the British and still some of the areas near by and the city itself have that British feel.

We live in Polanco which is more expensive but still variable, I have found housing here for business partners 2 bedrooms 150 square meters at 7000 pesos, we sold our original place here and upgraded in size, we don't like to rent as we used to rent our flat for 30,000 pesos when were in Cancun or Playa or Veracruz, or Europe. Where ever business took us at the time. Maintenance fees can be high depending on what you get, we pay 300 US $3700 pesos in maintenance as we have an elevated building, doorman, guy who parks and controls the cars in the garage and picks up the garbage etc. we live in a smaller building not a high rise, 7 floors one apartment per floor in an older building. (newer constructions are nice and have a lot of upgrades, we bought this older apartment because it was so large and we could integrate my wife's and my office into the apartment and the Kitchen is separate with the laundry room and maids quarters with its own entrance without entering the main house.

We like the zone because it is like living on or near 5th Avenue in Manhattan or Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills with all of the designer shops, the largest liverpool and Palacio in Mexico walking distance and all of the finest restaurants in Mexico are right here. We are close to the highways to Pachuca, Puebla, Queretaro and because of all of the embassies in the area and the class of people who live here security is 100%. My wife and I walk every night for 2 hours from around 9 to 11 with NO fear for our safety.


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## tommygn (Dec 2, 2011)

I absolutely agree. Like ANY other city, if you go into the rough parts you are not gonna do well. If you are wise and stay away from those areas, you will be fine. 



scubakevin said:


> Hello Vencer,
> 
> My wife and I moved back to the City full time about 3 months ago, she did 2 masters here in Mexico City at UNAM and this was my first home arriving to Mexico City in 1995. We have lived in Pachuca 90 minutes from Mexico City, very quiet, at night, no night life, no good restaurants and very reasonable rents, many of the crowds from Mexico City are migrating to that area which was settled by the British and still some of the areas near by and the city itself have that British feel.
> 
> ...


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

*Metro Bus*



Isla Verde said:


> Of course, the Metrobus is rather expensive at a whole 5 pesos  .


but for the OP couple, even the Metrobus is free (70 & over).

Yes, as someone who has lived here for over ten years, I agree that Mexico City is for those people who HAVE TO live here, for jobs, families, business opportunities, etc. 
If you actually have an open choice, I would not recommend living here: it's too huge, for one thing. 
Yes, your intentions can be to mostly stick to your own neighborhood but there's always things that come up (government, medical, business, parties, friend visits, organizations, etc) that require you to move about the city, and it's a real pain !!! 
Sure, the transportation COSTS are nothing, but the amount of TIME spent traveling to various parts, and transfering metros, buses, etc. just seems to exhaust you. and driving? we have two newish cars and we rarely use them because of traffic, parking, and safety.

Trust me: I try as much as possible to stick to my own little area, relatively calm, but there always seem to be reasons to have to venture out into the big city.

There are SO MANY lovely smaller cities in Mexico that don't come with all the hassles that I just can't see how people can justify living here ..... unless they go to museums & cultural events several times a week, every week. 

My friends & acquaintances who've once lived here but subsequently moved even to nearby cities such as Puebla, Cuernavaca, Santa Fe, etc. all report being MUCH, MUCH happier in a less hectic place. And in an hour or two they can always visit Mexico City if they need to. 

If you guys were in your 20s/30s and going out to clubs & theatres, etc. then I could see it, but at your age, who needs the aggravations.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

" There are SO MANY lovely smaller cities in Mexico that don't come with all the hassles that I just can't see how people can justify living here ..... unless they go to museums & cultural events several times a week, every week. "


The extra pollution and much higher housing costs make it even worse.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

bigmutt said:


> There are SO MANY lovely smaller cities in Mexico that don't come with all the hassles that I just can't see how people can justify living here ..... unless they go to museums & cultural events several times a week, every week.


I find your use of the word "justify" a bit judgmental. I have no need to justify why I live here. It's my life, not anyone else's. Of course, I also understand that living in Mexico City is not for everyone.


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

Isla Verde said:


> Are you implying that all big cities are ugly? Maybe it's the same as my thinking that all suburbs are boring.


Yes .... all THIRD WORLD big cities are ugly.
It's where the poorest of the poor from the rest of the country come to escape their minimal chances of ever getting out of poverty. 
At least a hovel in the capital offers more opportunity than their hovel in the poorer states.
The capital is also where those who have nothing left to lose come in desperation.

Think about it: if you were crimminally-inclined, where are your best opportunities for practicing your trade, and blending in with the millions who live there? Not in your home village, that's for sure.


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

Isla Verde said:


> I find your use of the word "justify" a bit judgmental. I have no need to justify why I live here. It's my life, not anyone else's. Of course, I also understand that living in Mexico City is not for everyone.


Of course it's judgemental.

And we all "justify" our choices whether we realize it or not.

I justify what I eat & where I do; where I choose to live; how I spend my money; what clothes I wear and what haircut I choose.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

bigmutt said:


> Yes .... all THIRD WORLD big cities are ugly.


Talk about generalizations! I can see that there's little possibility of us having a reasoned dialogue about the pluses and minuses of living in big cities in countries like Mexico. How have you managed to survive in such a hellhole for the last ten years?


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

Isla Verde said:


> I have learned that sometimes when posters appear to be going "over the top" with complaints about a particular city or about Mexico in general, it is a reflection of a bad personal situation and not a true picture of the place in general.


Yes, and just as importantly, the opposite is true also. I keep reading here that _"I have lived here for xx years and never had a problem, so therefore it must be safe."_

Many people seem to generalize based on mostly their own personal experience, rather than also using statistics and experiences of their friends & acquaintances.

You (or the posters here) may have experienced good fortune for many years but if the statistics (crime, polution, cost-of-living, weather reports, pop. density, etc.) paint a general picture then you better pay attention to it, in order to have a more accurate predictor of what you'll likely find.

People who've made their choice will normally look for "facts" to justify or support their decision: Psych 101 calls this "cognitive dissonance". (or rather, reducing your cognitive dissonance). In reality it's more _opinion _than it is _fact_.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I have several friends and professional associates that live in "El Defectuoso" (as they affectionately call it) and I have spent extended time staying with them. Also, my fiancee's family lives there and we visit them regularly so, in total, I have spent some eight months "living" there if you add up all my extended stays.

I'd say that there is good and bad in el DF. Staying with my friend in La Condesa it's half a block to the subway, one block to the metrobus, a 5 minute walk to the supermarket. Parks everywhere. Easy access to the Centro. Not such a bad way to live. Other friends live in Del Valle and their apartment is close to the metrobus and you can take it north to the Centro in 15-20 minutes and south to San Angel in 15. A huge, nice park is a block from their place. Not bad at all.

My fiancee's family, on the other hand, lives in the far reaches of Magdalena Contreras. It's a 3 hour nightmare to to get to and from the nearest supermarket. There is no public transportation close besides ratty old buses or peseros. El Periferico is 25 minutes away on the best of days and once on the Periferico you're in the hands of the traffic gods as far as getting anywhere. There is so much dirt in the air that washing your car is pointless because an hour later it looks as bad as it did before you washed it. Between the dirt and the pollution in the air my lungs ache most of the time. The micro-climate there is always freezing cold. There are drunks roaming the streets and having brawls with clubs and rocks and occasional gunfire can be heard at night. Not a good way to live.
We are trying to get them to move but no luck so far.

So, I can see the attractiveness of El DF and have taken advantage of the great things there. On the other hand, the place can be a nightmare as well. My preference is for a smaller city (hence, my choice of Guanajuato) but I can see why someone could love "El Defectuoso".


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

circle110 said:


> I have several friends and professional associates that live in "El Defectuoso" (as they affectionately call it) and I have spent extended time staying with them. Also, my fiancee's family lives there and we visit them regularly so, in total, I have spent some eight months "living" there if you add up all my extended stays.
> 
> I'd say that there is good and bad in el DF. Staying with my friend in La Condesa it's half a block to the subway, one block to the metrobus, a 5 minute walk to the supermarket. Parks everywhere. Easy access to the Centro. Not such a bad way to live. Other friends live in Del Valle and their apartment is close to the metrobus and you can take it north to the Centro in 15-20 minutes and south to San Angel in 15. A huge, nice park is a block from their place. Not bad at all.
> 
> ...


Mexico City can indeed be a nightmare for those unfortunate enough to be living in a dreadful area like Magdalena Contreras. However, it would be very unlikely that an expat would end up living there. But since your fiancée's parents have probably always lived there, it will be very difficult to get them to move. Perhaps, if you had settled in the D.F., she might have been able to persuade them to move, no doubt next door to wherever you were living. On the other hand, La Condesa and Del Valle are very nice areas of the city where expats with decent, not necessarily lavish incomes, can make very pleasant lives for themselves.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

My friends in Del Valle and La Condesa don't make a lot of money (they're musicians!) so an expat definitely could find a way to get by just fine if they had a modest income. I noticed several around the area while I was staying in both places. 

Agreed that it is very unlikely that an expat would wind up in Magdalena Contreras. I get pulled over once a week when we're there simply because they want to know why a ****** would be there (I have US plates). They never ask for bribes or give me any trouble; they just figure I must be up to no good - why else would I be there? - so they want to check me out. Once I say that my fiancee's family lives there, they check my car's registration and let me go.

We are making headway on convincing them to move. They came to Guanajuato to visit us, fell in love with the city and actually went and looked at some houses for sale. However, like you say, the inertia of 50 years living in their house is hard to overcome. They showed me some pictures of the place in 1960 (it was grandpa's originally) and it had a lovely river where the dirt street is now, trees everywhere, a horse tied up to a post and vegetable crops planted around the house. What a difference 50 years has made.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

circle110 said:


> My friends in Del Valle and La Condesa don't make a lot of money (they're musicians!) so an expat definitely could find a way to get by just fine if they had a modest income. I noticed several around the area while I was staying in both places.
> 
> Agreed that it is very unlikely that an expat would wind up in Magdalena Contreras. I get pulled over once a week when we're there simply because they want to know why a ****** would be there (I have US plates). They never ask for bribes or give me any trouble; they just figure I must be up to no good - why else would I be there? - so they want to check me out. Once I say that my fiancee's family lives there, they check my car's registration and let me go.
> 
> We are making headway on convincing them to move. They came to Guanajuato to visit us, fell in love with the city and actually went and looked at some houses for sale. However, like you say, the inertia of 50 years living in their house is hard to overcome. They showed me some pictures of the place in 1960 (it was grandpa's originally) and it had a lovely river where the dirt street is now, trees everywhere, a horse tied up to a post and vegetable crops planted around the house. What a difference 50 years has made.


Maybe the police pull you over when you're visiting the future in-laws because they think you are lost!

What a shame that the area where they've so long has changed so much in fifty years. I do hope you can persuade them to move to Guanajuato.


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## davidn819mex2m (Jun 26, 2009)

vencer said:


> We're thinking about retiring in Mexico City where we lived 40 years ago. My husband and I are in our late 60's early 70's and looking for a better life style when we quit work this summer. Back then Mexico City was affordable, but we hear that housing has risen to where it has become unaffordable. Household live in help used to be extremely affordable, but that too seems to have risen. We're looking to find a charming 2 bedroom condo or apartment in a safe neighborhood for under $1000/month. Can anyone give us ideas on where to look??



Getting back to the topic at hand....

I am a US expat, living here just under three years. The whole time I have lived here, I have lived in the south of DF. I reccomend you check out some of the following colonies in Benito Juarez. I live in Mixcoac, right by revolucion and patriotismo, three blocks from the metro, and close the both the SOriana and the Mega. Polanco and Santa Fe aren´t for everyone, and in my opinion, you miss out if you can´t be close to the fun markets and tiangis and taco stands that are around my area or some other places that are more common. Check these colonies out: Mixcoac, Nonoalco, San Juan, Napoles, Insurgentes Mixcoac, Extremadura Insurgentes, Actipan, Acaicis. THey are safe, and you can find housing that is in your price range (or less), as well as close access to supermarkets and public transportation, and other anemities that are withing walking distance.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

davidn819mex2m said:


> Polanco and Santa Fe aren´t for everyone, and in my opinion, you miss out if you can´t be close to the fun markets and tiangis and taco stands that are around my area or some other places that are more common.


I feel the same way. While Polanco is centrally located, it's very expensive and exclusive. When I was walking around there one evening, I felt as if I were in a Disney version of a Mexican neighborhood - very pretty but not quite real. Santa Fe is very far away from where the real life of the city takes place, and you must have a car if you decide to live there. I've always thought of it as an area to live if you don't really want to live in Mexico City at all! It's also quite expensive and exclusive.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

My wife and I co-own a house in DF with her sister, and we planned to live in that house when we retired. When we retired, my wife soon realized she could not live all the time with her sister. (Don't ask.) I could, but she can't.

We ended up in the rural village they were born in. Now that I have more friends than anywhere in the world, I would not want to live in DF. But, if I had to, I could do it.

However, just as I realize most people would not want to live in my village, I also realize most people would not want to live in DF. I do not find the pollution to be that bad, probably because I saw what it was like in 1992.

In my second floor bedroom, in a house not too near a major boulevard, the day air is actually fresh and nice, and the sky a pretty blue when there are no rain clouds. With all the plants on the roof, on cold days it is nice to go up there and sit in the sun for a while.

To be content in DF, one must have friends, as any place to live. My wife used to "freak out", when we would be miles away from home in DF, and some person would shout out my name. The Mexican people are so friendly anyway, and when they realize a foreigner actually respects them, they become super friendly.

Someone posted on another forum that while Mexicans will be friendly on the street, they never invite foreigners to private or intimate family functions. I have found that not to be true.

If you have friends in DF, it is not a bad place to live, IMO.


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## bougainvillea (Jun 4, 2012)

vencer said:


> We're thinking about retiring in Mexico City where we lived 40 years ago. My husband and I are in our late 60's early 70's and looking for a better life style when we quit work this summer. Back then Mexico City was affordable, but we hear that housing has risen to where it has become unaffordable. Household live in help used to be extremely affordable, but that too seems to have risen. We're looking to find a charming 2 bedroom condo or apartment in a safe neighborhood for under $1000/month. Can anyone give us ideas on where to look??


EVERYTHING has changed since forty years ago. I, too, lived in Mexico City back then. Make a trip first. And just start googling....you can google "real estate rentals in Mexico City" and see plenty of available properties and get a sense of the real estate market. Check out other cities as well.


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