# FM2 frustration



## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

Background:

Married to Mexican
Been on FM3 work visa
Getting an FM2 is a headache in this northern state!


We applied for an FM2 rentista since i have a funds coming in to my mexican bank account EVERY month. I send it from my bank account abroad like clockwork.

1) We filed all the paper work / online application etc and paid the fees
2) I submited SIX bank statements from mexican bank showing the minimum deposit coming in. All others offices seems to be 3 month norm
3) I submitted the letter from bank stating money is from abroad
4) mexican marriage certificate

Then they say.. ehem please send us information from where money comes. They suggested we give them letter from fathers company saying he sponsers my stay and amount that is sent + his passport scan.

They then say ehem... can you get it apostiled. We tell them ehem nopp because its a private document and they say AAaaaa okay.

Then they come up with... no.. it needs to be profit from investments abroad WTF? They just told us 2 weeks ago to get letters from left and right. Who cares i mean i could have millions in my account (dont) and iits more than enough but no need to get money from an investment? wierd, unheard of.


================== Question =========================

-- Anyone had such an issue?
-- Am i not suppose to fund my stay from savings if possible?
-- Called random offices and all say 3 month statement from mex bank + letter from mex bank + regular paper work.
==================================================


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

anoutlaw said:


> Background:
> 
> Married to Mexican
> Been on FM3 work visa
> ...


Yikes. I am thinking about applying for my FM2 as well next year. I am curious how this works out.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Now we finally begin to understand the frustration that Mexicans feel when they apply for a visa to the US.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

conorkilleen said:


> Yikes. I am thinking about applying for my FM2 as well next year. I am curious how this works out.


I too am watching this one, especially with ALL the new changes I have read and heard about.

Maybe, if anoutlaw can, they should hold off until ALL the new changes are in place.

Anoutlaw, do you have to do this now or is your time up on the FM 3?

David


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> Now we finally begin to understand the frustration that Mexicans feel when they apply for a visa to the US.


Part of the problem in dealing with Mexican Officialdoms is that there is no one place to get an accurate answer to questions. It’s true that there are various “official” sites here but being official and being followed are two different stories. It seems that many in Mexican Officialdom do things their way. (Example, the IMS office manager in Chapala). 

In the States there is very little of this because of the immense amount of backup paperwork that is required. OK we all know of an individual instance of a person doing it their way rather than the required way and we probably know of someone, through either ignorance or laziness has done something incorrectly. But it does seem that those are few and far apart.

We also must remember that Mexico has the history of passing a new regulation and then taking as much as 6 months to publish the “correct how to”. I truly pity any non-English speaker trying to get ANYTHING accomplished in the US almost as much as I pity a non-Spanish speaker trying to get something done here in Mexico. I sometimes forget that living at Lakeside I am really living in a very large expat community where there is a concerted effort made to cater to us non-Spanish speaking people.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

pappabee said:


> Part of the problem in dealing with Mexican Officialdoms is that there is no one place to get an accurate answer to questions. It seems that many in Mexican Officialdom do things their way. (Example, the IMS office manager in Chapala).


I've always gone to the local IMN office for answers to my questions. I read various sites, including those recommended here, but ultimately go to IMN for the final answer.



pappabee said:


> In the States there is very little of this because of the immense amount of backup paperwork that is required. OK we all know of an individual instance of a person doing it their way rather than the required way and we probably know of someone, through either ignorance or laziness has done something incorrectly. But it does seem that those are few and far apart.


There have been many times where seemingly qualified Mexicans were denied visas when others were granted. Mexicans have complained that there was no solid rules on the granting of visa, but it was left up to the agent's state of mind that day. Tit for tat.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

There have been many times where seemingly qualified Mexicans were denied visas when others were granted. Mexicans have complained that there was no solid rules on the granting of visa, but it was left up to the agent's state of mind that day. Tit for tat.[/QUOTE]

I think that where a Mexican citizen applying is for a US visa is important. That and Social status. I know and work with many Mexican citizens that have only had a steady job here in Monterrey for the last 5-6 years after graduating school, no property ownership, not much in the bank (maybe enough to cover the Visa costs and the cost of the vacation they want to take to Disney-just an example), and not living in a crummy part of town, that they were granted 10 year visas with no issue. Never turned down. They are not rich by any means, but not poor either. I would not even go as far to say middle class. Just young and have went to college. Here in MTY there is a different class of people..the middle class here is not like the middle class in other areas of Mexico.

I've heard all sorts of rumors about needing to own property for 10 plus years, owning a business, having over 100,000 mil pesos in the bank, letters from employers and sponsors, ect ect. Then those people still get turned down.

If the US would allow more tourist or worker visas legally, then I don't think that the US would have such a big problem with illegal immigration. With the dangers of entering the US with a coyote now adays, I'm sure that those immigrants would gladly fork over the $5,000 to the US government in order to get a visa and therefor have the ability to gain legal employment, a drivers license, and not have the fear of living "in the shadows". Of course there needs to be certain rules for application, but right now its ridiculous.


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

Cebucats said:


> I too am watching this one, especially with ALL the new changes I have read and heard about.
> 
> Maybe, if anoutlaw can, they should hold off until ALL the new changes are in place.
> 
> ...


It expired and have been waiting 1 month to get the new visa!

Thank you all for the coments and please do not derail the thread toards us imigration  Lets keep it focused on the fm2 issue i mentioned and i will post updates as they become available.

If anyone has any input on the issue i face, please share.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

anoutlaw said:


> It expired and have been waiting 1 month to get the new visa!
> 
> Thank you all for the coments [sic] and please do not derail the thread toards [sic] us imigration [sic]  Lets keep it focused on the fm2 issue i mentioned and i will post updates as they become available.
> 
> If anyone has any input on the issue i face, please share.


You seem to be getting jerked around for unknown reasons. I switched from an FM-3 to an inmigrante (new name for FM-2) a year and a half ago. At that time I was working and had a letter from the government agency I worked for. When I renewed 6 months ago, I was no longer working regularly, but gave them a copy of my Mexican bank statement which showed that I had a large enough balance to live for a year, and they approved the renewal. So I saw none of the problems you are having with repeated requests for more information. I don't know what else you can do except politely answer their questions. 

One suggestion, only half way facetious: Sometimes drowning them in paperwork will wear them out (think The Shawshank Redemption). A few times in an earlier life, I was audited by the US Government Services Administration. They would ask for a lot of paper. I would give the copies of everything they asked for and more in excruciating detail. Maybe in this case you could get copies of everything remotely related to your status in Mexico (marriage certificate, rental receipts for a year or escritura, old pay stubs, years of bank statements, history of your father's company, copies of the web page for it if that exists, etc). Give it all to them very politely and see if it overwhelms them enough to just want to give you the visa and be done with it. It worked for Tim Robbins in the movie.


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> You seem to be getting jerked around for unknown reasons. I switched from an FM-3 to an inmigrante (new name for FM-2) a year and a half ago. At that time I was working and had a letter from the government agency I worked for. When I renewed 6 months ago, I was no longer working regularly, but gave them a copy of my Mexican bank statement which showed that I had a large enough balance to live for a year, and they approved the renewal. So I saw none of the problems you are having with repeated requests for more information. I don't know what else you can do except politely answer their questions.
> 
> One suggestion, only half way facetious: Sometimes drowning them in paperwork will wear them out (think The Shawshank Redemption). A few times in an earlier life, I was audited by the US Government Services Administration. They would ask for a lot of paper. I would give the copies of everything they asked for and more in excruciating detail. Maybe in this case you could get copies of everything remotely related to your status in Mexico (marriage certificate, rental receipts for a year or escritura, old pay stubs, years of bank statements, history of your father's company, copies of the web page for it if that exists, etc). Give it all to them very politely and see if it overwhelms them enough to just want to give you the visa and be done with it. It worked for Tim Robbins in the movie.




Interesting 

The thing is, i dont feel comfortable having given them the documents so far. Some agents recently got fired for being involved in organized C###E sogivin them more details is just making the information barrel bigger and who knows where the info goes.

I will just keep providing whatever they ask to see when they throw in the white towel ;-)


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2011)

anoutlaw said:


> It expired and have been waiting 1 month to get the new visa!
> 
> Thank you all for the coments and please do not derail the thread toards us imigration  Lets keep it focused on the fm2 issue i mentioned and i will post updates as they become available.
> 
> If anyone has any input on the issue i face, please share.


Silly question - did you put in for the new visa before the last one expired, or after the expiration date? 

(sounds like a silly question, but if so, the visa approval then goes to MX City instead of the local office and you do get jerked around. This happened to me once due to factors outside my control, and the new visa came in 4 months later).


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

GringoCArlos said:


> Silly question - did you put in for the new visa before the last one expired, or after the expiration date?
> 
> (sounds like a silly question, but if so, the visa approval then goes to MX City instead of the local office and you do get jerked around. This happened to me once due to factors outside my control, and the new visa came in 4 months later).




It was applied for about 5 days before it expired. It has not gotten to the process of a decision to be made yet. Their appears to be a middle man in the local office that reviews documents to be sure all is correct and then gives it to his supervisor to process. 

The guy in the middle is being a pain. Actually im informed by my lawyer its a woman 

Apparently she mentioned that they need to be sure funding will continue so they need to see statements hahaha he told here where are we suppose to get the bank statements from for Aug sep oct Nov etc hahah she said ohhh you are right. WTF is my thoughts. I gave them SIX and now i can give them a seventh if they want one.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

conorkilleen said:


> With the dangers of entering the US with a coyote now adays, I'm sure that those immigrants would gladly fork over the $5,000 to the US government in order to get a visa and therefor have the ability to gain legal employment, a drivers license, and not have the fear of living "in the shadows". Of course there needs to be certain rules for application, but right now its ridiculous.


Unfortunately, the 10 year US visa you mention gives you none of those things. It is a visitor visa and you can't work nor get a driver's license. If you overstay your 6 months at a time you are "in the shadows" big time.

The 10 yr. tourist visa gets you the right to be interrogated for an hour and a half at the border, called a liar and have your possessions pulled apart only to advance a hundred yards and go through the same thing for another 45 minutes with a different agent to get a permission slip to enter the interior. Trust me, it's ugly and demeaning.

However, I agree that a temporary worker visa would be a fantastic idea. The US could track who was in the country to work and what they were doing. Taxes would be paid. Workers would earn minimum wage. Everyone wins... except for those employers who currently hire the undocumented workers, who'd have to pay more for their labor. Since those folks have plenty of clout we aren't going to see it happen soon, unfortunately.

Getting back on topic, I am hoping to be able to wait until the dust settles with the new law and get my residente temporal in the fall. I only have partial faith that it will be sorted out by then.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

circle110 said:


> Getting back on topic, I am hoping to be able to wait until the dust settles with the new law and get my residente temporal in the fall. I only have partial faith that it will be sorted out by then.


I too am hopeful the new law is more relaxed, especially when it comes to "required" income. Since my steady secured income is still far better than most Mexicans who, unfortunately for the Mexican citizens, are still struggling to just survive. I know I could live quite comfortably with what I get and not be "in trouble" financially.

In fact, I (like most expats) would be pumping US $ into the local economy and employing local folks for various needs I would have to have met.


:focus:

As for *anoutlaw* having applying for the new visa only five days before the old one had expired, I believe that could be the heart of the problem. From my own experiences in Malaysia and the Philippines I found out the hard way at the beginning of my expat life that local immigration does not like when foreigners wait to the last minute to attend to their visas. It seems to be an insult to the immigration official who now feels "under the gun" (so to speak) to have to "rush" the paperwork through. Generally I have found that they (immigration) like at least 30 days to ponder what to do.

I might suggest you approach the official in question with a kinder, sincere and polite explanation of "your mistake" followed by an apologize and promise that you will be more vigilant in the future. Only a suggestion. Honey over vinegar.

Please let me know if this helps you.

David


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

Cebucats said:


> I too am hopeful the new law is more relaxed, especially when it comes to "required" income. Since my steady secured income is still far better than most Mexicans who, unfortunately for the Mexican citizens, are still struggling to just survive. I know I could live quite comfortably with what I get and not be "in trouble" financially.
> 
> In fact, I (like most expats) would be pumping US $ into the local economy and employing local folks for various needs I would have to have met.
> 
> ...


Hello,

You have a point here! I will do it when im called in.

I am informed that lawyer had a meeting with the official and they took out the manual/procedure book. He pointed out that i meet all the requirements by law and they agreed that i do. They said they each office at their own discretion have the right to deny.. but that since everything appears to be okay with documents they will authorise it. 

So far we have verbal approval, follow up next week. 

I think "everything appears to be in order" means "hand me over some $" haha


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

anoutlaw said:


> I think "everything appears to be in order" means "hand me over some $" haha


I don't know about where you are but the INM office in Guadalajara has multiple signs telling people that there are no charges for service. In multiple (!) trips there I have never seen any evidence of money changing hands.


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

anoutlaw said:


> I think "everything appears to be in order" means "hand me over some $" haha


I think "everything appears to be in order" means everything appears to be in order.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You guys are beating a dead horse without reason. There is no longer any reason to change from FM3 to FM2; now 'no inmigrante' and 'inmigrante' visas. In a matter of months, the newest laws, signed May 24, 2011, will go into effect. As such, there will be on distinction between the two types of visa. You will become a 'residente temporal' with the appropriate charactaristic. A new 'residente permanente' visa will replace the old 'inmigrado' status, which needs no renewals or annual fees.
So, save your money and frustrations. At present, just renew normally and the new system will solve your problems; as well as the obvious confusion of those advising you.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> You guys are beating a dead horse without reason. There is no longer any reason to change from FM3 to FM2; now 'no inmigrante' and 'inmigrante' visas. In a matter of months, the newest laws, signed May 24, 2011, will go into effect. As such, there will be on distinction between the two types of visa. You will become a 'residente temporal' with the appropriate charactaristic. A new 'residente permanente' visa will replace the old 'inmigrado' status, which needs no renewals or annual fees.
> So, save your money and frustrations. At present, just renew normally and the new system will solve your problems; as well as the obvious confusion of those advising you.


RVGRINGO:

I think you may have missed the point of the OP. They seem to be concern that at this moment they had NO visa under any regulation "name" (old or new law). Their old visa had expired during their upgrade application procedure and the new visa was being held up for no apparent reason. Technically they could be considered illegal by the local office of immigration and/or denied a visa of any sort as I understand the problem. There appeared to be nothing "normal" about their visa application procedure. Waiting was NOT an option.

Therefore it is NOT unreasonable for them to seek out reassurances that their fate was manageable. Just sitting by and waiting for some new laws or rules to take effect in their case was NOT an option IMHO!

I believe we all now understand what the new laws may entail as you have done a fine job at posting the translations and helping to explain what could happen. But as most might agree, the final interpretation of these new laws are not in yet. And there still appears to be some open ended questions about their effects and specific requirements.

[....]

Thank you,

David


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

Cebucats said:


> RVGRINGO:
> 
> I think you may have missed the point of the OP. They seem to be concern that at this moment they had NO visa under any regulation "name" (old or new law). Their old visa had expired during their upgrade application procedure and the new visa was being held up for no apparent reason. Technically they could be considered illegal by the local office of immigration and/or denied a visa of any sort as I understand the problem. There appeared to be nothing "normal" about their visa application procedure. Waiting was NOT an option.
> 
> ...


When my brother-in-law went to renew his visa the office in Chapala could not read the information posted on their own web site. (due to the fact that the office was so new) He was told to come back in a few weeks. But being afraid to be without a current visa he questioned the people at the Chapala office. He was told that so long as he had a renewal in the system there was nothing for him to worry about. I'm not sure I beleive it but that's what he was told. 

As far as RV's comments go IMHO all he was trying to do was to calm the OP down a little and calm down some of the comments made here. All of his comments have been backed with facts and he seems to use very little opinion. In reading his last post I can find nothing that is "closed circle non-supportive" also there was no "berating of others' concerns" just a simple comment that everyone needs to hold up and wait till the concerned agency publishes the actual rules and procedures. 

My added suggestion is to hold the emotions until it becomes clear where they are needed, if at all.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Once an application has been submitted to INM and been accepted, there is no need to worry about becoming illegal, as you are 'en tramite' or 'in process.'
INM will accept applications for renewal no earlier than 30 days before expiry.
One's attitude toward INM can have a significant bearing on results.


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## Solomon (Jun 19, 2011)

As RVGringo mentioned, the current rules are all going to be a thing of the past in the next four months: The new migratory law will eliminate the FM3/No-Inmigrante/FM2/Inmigrante status all together. Here is an article I wrote on the new "Temporary Resident" status, which will be similar to the FM2 that we use today. 

I don't imagine that the new law will make it any easier to get migratory status for anyone who doesn't have a familial bond with a Mexican citizen, but for spouses, children, siblings and even "concubines", the new law offers some options for obtaining residence in Mexico.


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

Thank you all for the coments in the thread,

No news yet, we have been going to them a few times and wasting time as they just keep coming up with excuses as to why they did not get around to processing anything. They tell us "come back tomorrow" and then be told the same.

Also came out in the local paper that the INM office in question has been neglecting their duties and pretty much not doing their job + understaffed since some simply show up at work when they feel like it.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

Something that we all should notice is that no where in OP posts does he say where in Mexico he is. He doesn't even say where he's from in the States. Is he hiding something?

He keeps on telling us about how many problems he has getting his paperwork completed but does not tell us in what city he's having all these problems.

We know that different offices have their own speed and that in some that speed might be attuned to reverse but we also know that our attitude in dealing with that office and their personnel can make a tremendous difference. And we must also remember that we are only hearing one side of the story. If someone walks into an office with an attitude I can just imagine what the results would be.

IMHO-before we invest any more effort or emotion in OP's problems let him tell us where he is located.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

pappabee said:


> Something that we all should notice is that no where in OP posts does he say where in Mexico he is. He doesn't even say where he's from in the States. Is he hiding something?.


With a name like "an-outlaw", I think we can all draw some conclusions that may or may not be on the mark. I agree with Pappa that its very very strange that the information about where he is from and located is important and helps in the conversation. But, anyone can lie about that info..this is the internet after all.

here is a view from my porch here in Monterrey to prove that I am actually here,


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> With a name like "an-outlaw", I think we can all draw some conclusions that may or may not be on the mark. I agree with Pappa that its very very strange that the information about where he is from and located is important and helps in the conversation. But, anyone can lie about that info..this is the internet after all.
> 
> here is a view from my porch here in Monterrey to prove that I am actually here,


Are you sure you didn't just find that on the web and attach it?????????????

I have no doubts that you're somewhere and I guess Monterrey is as good as anyplace. OK enough satire for the time being.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

pappabee said:


> Are you sure you didn't just find that on the web and attach it?????????????
> 
> My concern is that when we ask a question and we get ignored I start having real problems. I have no doubts that you're somewhere and I guess Monterrey is as good as anyplace. OK enough satire for the time being.


Nope...its my house. here is another in the daylight. Not sure why they don't put the flag up anymore. Kinda a boring view 95% of the time without the flag.


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

I dont blame you guys for thinking that after all my alias is not the best to use and can be missleading.

In any case many of the expats in mexico are located in bigger cities and places like puerto vallarta, cancun and generally things work more efficiently in those offices.

I have all my papers in order to be legally in this country. I simply switched from FM3 to FM2 and wanted to share with other my experience. I was employed so had a work visa but didnt need the job but since i wanted to do everythin legally i got the work permission. I am not working now so i fall back on my own savings and switch to FM2.

The article in the local paper explained the reason why my application is being delayed and in fact i was informed earlier today that the lawyer has other clients being delayed even though everything is in order.

I am in the state of tamaulipas. 

Several INM officers in the state where discovered by authorities to have been collaborating with the organised criminals in such a way that when illegals (from south) where pulled over on buses etc they were deliverd to the bad guys that then asked for ransoms from their families. 

Therefor, you can see i was not comfortable presenting additional documents/info that is not a requiremet by mexican imigration law. 

Maybe im paranoid because i keep up with news at El Blog del Narco

Many think if they are not involved nothing to worry about. That is not the reality and found out the hard way.

Anyway, ill be back with the update when i have one


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

For anyone who was following this thread here is a quick update 

Lawyer called me on wednesday to inform that the visa has been aproved and i can go sign the documents in the imigration office.

HOWEVER, they told him they are out of the watermarked papers and Monday they will have them.

I will take a pen just in case they are out of ink on monday haha!


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## El Toro Furioso (May 13, 2007)

TundraGreen said:


> One suggestion, only half way facetious: Sometimes drowning them in paperwork will wear them out (think The Shawshank Redemption). A few times in an earlier life, I was audited by the US Government Services Administration. They would ask for a lot of paper. I would give the copies of everything they asked for and more in excruciating detail. Maybe in this case you could get copies of everything remotely related to your status in Mexico (marriage certificate, rental receipts for a year or escritura, old pay stubs, years of bank statements, history of your father's company, copies of the web page for it if that exists, etc). Give it all to them very politely and see if it overwhelms them enough to just want to give you the visa and be done with it. It worked for Tim Robbins in the movie.


You should never give a beauracracy even one tidbit more than required. Just don't do it. The above post is not good advice. Think about engaging an expediter (lawyer or other expert in these matters). Many of the expediters have intimate connections with everyone in the INM locally and can fix just about anything. They don't even usually charge that much. Don't let your FM2 expire (even though there is no FM2 anymore). Get your new Inmigrante on time. Buena suerte!


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

It may be due to the fact that you are submitting bank statements showing each month the monthly required deposits rather than a lump sum balance showing at least a years income balance. Since monthly deposits are being made they probably want to know where it is coming from, aka IRA, mutual funds, retirement account, or are you working in Mexico for your father's company (which may be illegal depending on your FM3 status). I think that is why they are asking for this information.


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## anoutlaw (May 13, 2009)

Hello All!

Yesterday I signed and did the fingerprinting,

Today i picked up my new visa and will be sure to renew 30 days early next year! 

"El Toro Furioso" I used a lawyer as always and it helps! 

"cscscs007" You have a point but, their is no reason why i should have a lot of money in my acount. I deposit the 25-28,000 MXN and by the end of the month its all spent. The cycle repeats. Just like if i was working and having a salaray every month. It is from my savings account abroad but it was easiest to have a letter from sponsor abroad even though theoretically it should not be required. I could have gone the route of presenting statements from bank abroad but do not want to show strangers my balances. Especially here ! Safety concerns. Besides getting all the documents would have been complicated since i am currently here.


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## mbaietti (Aug 9, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> Now we finally begin to understand the frustration that Mexicans feel when they apply for a visa to the US.


Amen bro! Especially considering how very much easier it is for us to legally live in Mexico!


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## mbaietti (Aug 9, 2011)

*FM2 nightmares*



anoutlaw said:


> It expired and have been waiting 1 month to get the new visa!
> 
> Thank you all for the coments and please do not derail the thread toards us imigration  Lets keep it focused on the fm2 issue i mentioned and i will post updates as they become available.
> 
> If anyone has any input on the issue i face, please share.


I've had an FM3 for the last 5 years and will be getting my FM2 this fall. I've ALWAYS used a a lawyer's office for my FM3 work. I've never had a problem - getting the first FM3 or any of the annual renewals - and I greatly attribute that to the experience my lawyer's office has and - very importantly - the relationships they have with the individual immigration officers after doing this hundreds or thousands of times. I have simple advice for you - stop trying to do it yourself and the pay the couple hundred US$ that a professional will charge.


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