# Canadians filling out CRS self-certification form for UK Bank Account



## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

Hey all! I posted a while back, but realized late there was a typo in my header discussion, and also was confusing FATCA for CRS for Canadians.

Can anyone help or have experience with the below:

Opened a UK bank account a few years ago on my holiday working visa. I've obviously kept my account since leaving, and using it sporadically when I'm in the UK. I'm back in Canada now, and fly back and forth often to see friends and travel (probably once or twice a year). So I do use the account regularly, but only when I dump some money in there to use for my contactless tube, and buying stuff to avoid all the conversions.

I had to replace my debit card when it expired and got it sent to Canada. And now they are asking me to fill out a CRS self-certification. Annoying really! It's just asking where I pay taxes and stuff, but hate that it's asking me my Canadian info for a UK account that never has anything more than £100-£300 in (if I'm travelling). I know it's to comply with HRMC, but in reality: Do I need to fill this out? It says I need to fill out by Jan 1, but that's all. It's a basic savings account, no interest, etc. 

Have any of my other Canucks had to fill this out? Give your SIN to the UK bank you're with? What happens if I don't? Does it even matter? LOL. Don't plan on being back to visit there until Covid is beyond over. (and music festivals are back) ha! 

Would love anyone's thoughts/experiences. 

Thanks!!! <3 Hope you are all staying well and safe, and looking forward to 2021!!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I think this makes more sense in the Canadian forum so I’ve moved it there.


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

nyclon said:


> I think this makes more sense in the Canadian forum so I’ve moved it there.


Thank you! Sorry!


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

It's not that big a deal, particularly as it's not much of a balance, so there won't be any Canadian tax implications. If you ignore it, the bank will probably close the account at some point.

I had to finally do the same thing for a euro account we keep in Germany, once it was impossible to continue using c/o at a friend's address. Changed to our Canadian address, entered our SINs and that was that.

FATCA is another matter - if you're a US citizen abroad who doesn't file US tax returns, you'll want to avoid disclosing US citizenship to your bank, if possible.


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

Nononymous said:


> It's not that big a deal, particularly as it's not much of a balance, so there won't be any Canadian tax implications. If you ignore it, the bank will probably close the account at some point.
> 
> I had to finally do the same thing for a euro account we keep in Germany, once it was impossible to continue using c/o at a friend's address. Changed to our Canadian address, entered our SINs and that was that.
> 
> FATCA is another matter - if you're a US citizen abroad who doesn't file US tax returns, you'll want to avoid disclosing US citizenship to your bank, if possible.


Oh thank you for the reply! That's what I was thinking, it's just a small account with minimal movement that I feel it'll be fine. Cool, so it's SIN, declare you're paying tax in Canada, and it's good to go, eh? Do they make the CRA known that there's a bank account overseas? 

I wonder if I should just fill it out and be done with it - versus they come back to me later which I'll assume they will - do you think there will be notice before they close? The address it's connected to is still an old flat I stayed at years ago. haha, one of those house shares that got so much mail from former residents, that'll if they send me a message, I don't even know who's in that flat anymore. 

I feel I got myself worked up with worry over something that's nothing. lol. Thanks again for the reply! Really appreciate it.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

brokenplaything said:


> Oh thank you for the reply! That's what I was thinking, it's just a small account with minimal movement that I feel it'll be fine. Cool, so it's SIN, declare you're paying tax in Canada, and it's good to go, eh? Do they make the CRA known that there's a bank account overseas?
> 
> I wonder if I should just fill it out and be done with it - versus they come back to me later which I'll assume they will - do you think there will be notice before they close? The address it's connected to is still an old flat I stayed at years ago. haha, one of those house shares that got so much mail from former residents, that'll if they send me a message, I don't even know who's in that flat anymore.
> 
> I feel I got myself worked up with worry over something that's nothing. lol. Thanks again for the reply! Really appreciate it.


Honestly just do it. You're simply telling the UK bank that you're tax resident in Canada. I don't know the details but I think they won't even report small accounts, it needs to be over a pretty substantial threshold before they send any info to CRA. If you've got some six-figure balance in there you'd need to report it on your Canadian tax return anyway, and pay tax on the interest income to some combination of the UK and Canada. But for a few hundred (or thousand) quid this is a non-issue.

If you don't do it, you likely lose the account eventually, and that would be a nuisance.

If there's no additional monthly fee, change your address to Canada. I did that for my German account because it cost nothing extra - as a purely online account they never mailed statements or anything else.


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

Nononymous said:


> Honestly just do it. You're simply telling the UK bank that you're tax resident in Canada. I don't know the details but I think they won't even report small accounts, it needs to be over a pretty substantial threshold before they send any info to CRA. If you've got some six-figure balance in there you'd need to report it on your Canadian tax return anyway, and pay tax on the interest income to some combination of the UK and Canada. But for a few hundred (or thousand) quid this is a non-issue.
> 
> If you don't do it, you likely lose the account eventually, and that would be a nuisance.
> 
> If there's no additional monthly fee, change your address to Canada. I did that for my German account because it cost nothing extra - as a purely online account they never mailed statements or anything else.


Thanks so much! Will be filling it out - appreciate your advice/experience. Also FYI - After much digging as well - it appears they report all information of the accounts of non-UK residents to the HRMC first who then pass on to the appropriate tax authority (in this case CRA for us). And looking at the final page on the form, they do indeed share the info with HRMC to pass on. Don't know why that annoys me so much. More information for the government, ya know? ha!

Good idea on the address update too. God I wonder if I can just transfer my account to HSBC Canada - it appears they offer a ££ account for Canadians.. Wish I didn't leave it so late, with it being due on the 1st of Jan.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Interest income would be reported to HRMC anyway, just like it would be to CRA on a Canadian account.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

brokenplaything said:


> God I wonder if I can just transfer my account to HSBC Canada - it appears they offer a ££ account for Canadians.. Wish I didn't leave it so late, with it being due on the 1st of Jan.


Depends on why you have the account. I don't think HSBC Canada provides £ debit cards. Only C$ and US$


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

Nononymous said:


> Interest income would be reported to HRMC anyway, just like it would be to CRA on a Canadian account.


Very true! Zero interest on my UK acct though which is good.


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

NickZ said:


> Depends on why you have the account. I don't think HSBC Canada provides £ debit cards. Only C$ and US$


That's a good point - I think you're right. You can have a £ acct in HSBC Canada, but they don't issue a £ debit card. The reason I've kept my UK acct is frequent travel. The only heavy activity is when I'm there. Otherwise, I use it every so often from Canada if I don't want to use my credit card.


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

Interesting read btw: CRA publishes updated FATCA, CRS guidance | Investment Executive

As of Jan 1 2021, banks not getting self certs from accounts will be fined. Now I can understand why banks are pushing for these forms so hard.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

brokenplaything said:


> Interesting read btw: CRA publishes updated FATCA, CRS guidance | Investment Executive
> 
> As of Jan 1 2021, banks not getting self certs from accounts will be fined. Now I can understand why banks are pushing for these forms so hard.


Thanks for the link. There is a global push now for greater transparency on offshore accounts and stuff, hence CRS.

It will get really off-topic if I go into this, but FATCA is a bit of a special case. First, the US doesn't reciprocate, and won't sign on to CRS, so they've basically bludgeoned the worlds' banks into forking over data but then turned themselves into a tax haven. Hypocrites. Second, CRS applies to "tax residents" - i.e. you living in Canada with an account in the UK - but the US taxes based on citizenship, so under FATCA rules a person who'd spent their whole life in Canada but was born in the US technically needs to 'fess up to their local bank and have their data sent to the IRS.

The good news is, Canadian banks are super slack about compliance. When you open an account they don't ask for ID showing place of birth (a drivers license is all you need). The application form usually has a little checkbox that combines CRS and FATCA questions, with some bland language like "are you resident of another country for tax purposes?" but saying nothing about US or other citizenship. So just leave it unchecked and on your merry way. 

No bank has been fined for this, to the best of my knowledge. It's all pretty toothless.

If it's not already obvious I'm a dual citizen living in Canada who thinks this is BS and won't disclose US citizenship to my bank.


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## brokenplaything (Nov 1, 2020)

No, thanks for the info! Yeah, have been really reading up on this and the CRS/FATCA stuff, and I really think it's all dumb tbh. For my Canadian/US accounts (that I've opened in Canada), I've not had to do any FATCA stuff, and you're right, it certainly seems more slack! But it does seem the FATCA stuff seems more serious/scary?

Just to update, I did fill out the form and it really was just SIN, name, and did actually ask for birthplace too. There were a couple US residency separate questions (twice, but differently worded) which I found interesting. But I'm not American so doesn't apply to me, but thought it interesting they'd ask twice about being a US taxpayer, TIN, and then a literal - were you born in the US - separate from the Birthplace question!

Cool - lucky you're dual! . You're really insightful and have great responses! I've found you on several other discussions, and have learned a lot.


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