# The road back to Spain... what could possibly go wrong!?



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Some of the longer standing posters may remember me from a few years ago (although I have tried to stay on the forum a bit) as I lived in Spain for 9 years until 2013, when I was offered a job in Thailand.

We have now been in Thailand for just over 2 and a half years and my 3 yr contract will soon come to an end. My company has so far respected my wishes to return to Spain and it looks as if I will have a job to come to in summer.

Before we left, both my wife and I applied for permanent inscription on the register of foreigners as we had the right to do, and we were advised in extranjería that we should not de-register when we left (although that seems to not be entirely the correct advice according to the rule book..) so we still have our permanent certificates.

My company continued to pay Seguridad Social for me whilst I have been away and my wife has paid voluntarily for almost all of the time away (she had a gap of around 6 months at the beginning).

Logically, we have not been tax residents for the last few years, but we own a flat which we rent out and have been doing the quarterly declaration of the income from the rent and paying the stupid tax that this entails.... we also stopped declaring our overseas investments once we were no longer tax residents.

Our two children were born in Spain, but have UK passports, logically as we are both British. I assume they will get their inscription on the list of residents renewed fairly easily as they still have rights to all social benefits as we have paid into the system.

We are not empadronado anywhere in Spain, but we will need to get our kids into school and the enrollment starts in March... I see that this is, in theory, possible from other posts, but it would be good to have some recent experiences or specific advice to count on.

I have been thinking about what little surprises Spain will have in store for us when we try to return, but I would like to hear from anyone who may have a similar experience or form anyone with any advice in general about my situation or similar.

I have to admit that I am quite looking forward to returning! I have mised Spain far more than I ever missed the UK!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Welcome back!

I was talking to a woman the other day who had moved back to Spain. She returned to the UK a couple of years ago because she missed her family, but she discovered she missed Spain even more - and saw the family nearly as often! She hadn't managed to sell her house here, which turned out to be a good thing.

As for "little surprises", there have been some nasty new laws introduced since you've been gone. The most notable is the citizen security law, known as the "gagging law" which among other things makes it illegal to protest in the street without permission, or film police officers beating up protesters. People have already been fined for making rude remarks about policemen on Facebook! 

What else? The labour market has deteriorated (more temporary contracts and lower wages than before), prices haven't changed much (zero inflation), tourism is on the increase, especially from the UK (strong sterling against the euro) and house sales are up 11% over last year. The prisons are full to bursting with corrupt politicians, businessmen and bankers (though plenty more are still getting away with it) and we have a new king. We have no government at the moment because there was no party with an overall majority at last December's elections and the parties are still shuffling around trying to form pacts. Catalonia is still champing at the bit for a referendum and FC Barcelona are still winning everything. That's all I can think of!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> I was talking to a woman the other day who had moved back to Spain. She returned to the UK a couple of years ago because she missed her family, but she discovered she missed Spain even more - and saw the family nearly as often! She hadn't managed to sell her house here, which turned out to be a good thing.
> 
> ...


And many of the old mob are still here dispensing advice and giving the mods a hard time when we go off at tangents.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> And many of the old mob are still here dispensing advice and giving the mods a hard time when we go off at tangents.


I have already been slammed a few times by the mods but managed to survive.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Overandout said:


> ...
> 
> My company continued to pay Seguridad Social for me whilst I have been away and my wife has paid voluntarily for almost all of the time away (she had a gap of around 6 months at the beginning).


I didn't know you could do that. So basically even a non-Spaniard who moves away from Spain for a few years can still make voluntary contributions right? Do you know if they count towards the Spanish state pension as well?



Overandout said:


> We are not empadronado anywhere in Spain, but we will need to get our kids into school and the enrollment starts in March... I see that this is, in theory, possible from other posts, but it would be good to have some recent experiences or specific advice to count on.
> 
> ...


Our youngest is starting infantíl this year and our eldest started 3 years ago (in Madrid) so we have some ongoing experience of this, but it does vary between areas. In Madrid the enrollment is March/April so I guess you need to be registered before then. They changed the points system for getting into schools about 3 years ago, and I think now it is a bit more flexible regarding how close you live to the school(s) you are interested in, and there is less chance to cheat the system as well.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Overandout said:


> S
> 
> I have been thinking about what little surprises Spain will have in store for us when we try to return, but I would like to hear from anyone who may have a similar experience or form anyone with any advice in general about my situation or similar.
> 
> I have to admit that I am quite looking forward to returning! I have mised Spain far more than I ever missed the UK!



If you can let us know the exact date I'll order the popcorn in. This could be good. :rofl:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> If you can let us know the exact date I'll order the popcorn in. This could be good. :rofl:


You actually buy in popcorn? Wow, we always make our own!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> I was talking to a woman the other day who had moved back to Spain. She returned to the UK a couple of years ago because she missed her family, but she discovered she missed Spain even more - and saw the family nearly as often! She hadn't managed to sell her house here, which turned out to be a good thing.
> 
> ...


*And now for the good news !* but I suggest you brace yourself first, as this sort of news would have been unthinkable
a year ago.

Are you ready for it ? - well here it is - a litre of unleaded at most Repsol Stations is now down to 1.10 Euro's a litre - that's
right, I say again 1.10 Euros a litre ( and falling ) Of course if your car runs on diesel it's now only 1 Euro a litre.
No doubt the same's true ( give or take a few euro cents ) at most Spanish filling stations.
Enjoy the savings while you can - although most experts say oil prices are likely to remain depressed for the rest of the year.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> *And now for the good news !* but I suggest you brace yourself first, as this sort of news would have been unthinkable
> a year ago.
> 
> Are you ready for it ? - well here it is - a litre of unleaded at most Repsol Stations is now down to 1.10 Euro's a litre - that's
> ...


That's expensive. Here Repsol and Shell are for Diesel is 95.9 and independents are 92.9


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> That's expensive. Here Repsol and Shell are for Diesel is 95.9 and independents are 92.9


Well there you go OverandOut, see what I mean - it's fallen again - just within the space of a couple of posts. Seems to be no stopping this fall in oil prices !!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks all for the replies!

I am glad to see that the forum is still flourishing!!

We have kept up to date on all current affairs such as the ley mordaza and the elections.

Chopera, Yes, anyone can make voluntary contributions to the SS, they are, in effect similar to the compulsory contributions for autonomos.
I am not sure wnat you mean that "I will have to be registered" before applying for a school place as I understood that it was possible to enroll without being on the Padrón... maybe not, but that would mean that we can't do the ordinary process and will have to wait until we are actually in Spain, which could be only a matter of weeks prior to the start of the school year...

With regards to the petrol price, it looks like good news, until I take into account that I am currently paying around 70 cents per litre here....

Honestly, my three biggest worries are:

Getting the kids into school
Tax - becoming tax resident again and all that entails
Finding somewhere to live!

I also will have to get my old car out of storage and renew the registration because I signed it off the road temporarily when we left (baja temporal).

I promise to inform you all of how all this goes, if not just to get advice, but for your entertainment factor also!!


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## amespana (Nov 10, 2009)

89.9 here in Estepona!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Overandout said:


> Thanks all for the replies!
> 
> I am not sure wnat you mean that "I will have to be registered" before applying for a school place as I understood that it was possible to enroll without being on the Padrón... maybe not, but that would mean that we can't do the ordinary process and will have to wait until we are actually in Spain, which could be only a matter of weeks prior to the start of the school year...


Yes I think you're right in that you don't have to be on the padron in order to apply, however (from memory) in Madrid city they give you an extra point if you are enpadronado in the same district as the school. If you are applying to a school that tends to fill up then it can make a difference.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

So it seems as if we have managed to get the kids into a school for September, although we have to wait for the official lists to be published to be sure.

What was odd was that they insisted that we had to present the original application form in person.... luckily we could send the completed pdf files to someone in Spain who has power of attorney for us, and they presented the original documents on our behalf.

I'm not sure how people moving to Spain for the first time manage this though!

The good thing is we have done the ordinary enrollment application, so we hopefully won't need to go through the second special application process which is what some people suggested we would have to do.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> So it seems as if we have managed to get the kids into a school for September, although we have to wait for the official lists to be published to be sure.
> 
> What was odd was that they insisted that we had to present the original application form in person.... luckily we could send the completed pdf files to someone in Spain who has power of attorney for us, and they presented the original documents on our behalf.
> 
> ...


They expect you to submit them in person because they expect you to be living in Spain....

Most people arrive to live here, sort out the paperwork & get the children enrolled. It can all be done in a couple of days with preparation.

Children aged between 6 & 16 have to attend school - so they would have had places in September regardless. Even if you arrived the last day of August.


How did you deal with the padrón issue? Since it's the money from Madrid for being on the padrón which pays for education, that is generally essential.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The padrón now only gives you one extra point in the points system if the school you choose is in the same distrito. There is no requirement to be on the padrón in order to enroll.

Or at least that is what we were told by the lady from La Communidad de Madrid that was helping us. Maybe they will ask us to provide some proof of empadronamiento later... it would make sense. 

I believe that this requirement to show empadronamiento was done away with to stop people "falsely" registering in a distrito just so that their kids could go to a better rated school there, instead of one in the distrito where they really lived.

Anyway, in our case it should be a non-issue as we will be empadronados by the time school starts. If we are not for any reason, it will be because we are still in Thailand and the places will be free to other kids!

I could never move to a country without knowing what school my kids would go to, so I suppose I am lucky that someone could submit the paperwork for me. If you arrive after the places have been awarded, you have no choice of school, you simply get the kids put wherever there is space. That is not so bad if you have one child, but with two, you could end up with one child at one school and the other at a different school 30 minutes away. Very difficult to manage logistically for a family with both parents working considering that both kids would probably start at the same time.

I guess the only other solution is private schools, but I'm afraid we can't stretch to that for both kids either.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

To be honest I'm amazed that you have secured state school places before you have moved here! 

It goes against everything I have ever heard & experienced!

And padrón has always been essential as proof of address - & as I said for the school t receive funding.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

We just sent off the enrolment form for our youngest. We had to give the form to our first choice school and they are responsible for processing it (it was the same for our eldest). There was a box on the form which you could tick if you wanted the authorities to check the padron in order to get the extra points. I understand that for Madrid city you get 2 points for being empadronado in the Madrid region, another 2 for being empadronado in the Madrid city, and half a point for being empadronado in the same district as the school. It is not obligatory to have them check the padron as far as I can tell, you just don't get the points.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> We just sent off the enrolment form for our youngest. We had to give the form to our first choice school and they are responsible for processing it (it was the same for our eldest). There was a box on the form which you could tick if you wanted the authorities to check the padron in order to get the extra points. I understand that for Madrid city you get 2 points for being empadronado in the Madrid region, another 2 for being empadronado in the Madrid city, and half a point for being empadronado in the same district as the school. It is not obligatory to have them check the padron as far as I can tell, you just don't get the points.


It's obviously different in Madrid

Here, the padrón cert is essential to secure a place in school - any school! Having an address in the catchment area of your chosen school gets you more points though, in the same way.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

We cannot keep our son in his school each year without a padron certificate which is less than 3 months old. However, whilst we are on the padron in Torrox, he could have gone to a school in Nerja or Frigiliana without being registered on the padron in either of those towns. Odd??


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> It's obviously different in Madrid
> 
> Here, the padrón cert is essential to secure a place in school - any school! Having an address in the catchment area of your chosen school gets you more points though, in the same way.


Yes it is strange. In fact the mother of one of our daughter's class mates also just tried to enroll their child into the same school, and it turned out they weren't on the padron in Madrid. They had been to the office and done all the paperwork, but it seems there has been some administrative error and they aren't registered as living in Madrid. Which is causing a lot of stress as they now don't have enough points to get into that school. It will probably be sorted out, however it seems that they would still have the right to attend a state school in Madrid anyway - just not the one of their choice.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> To be honest I'm amazed that you have secured state school places before you have moved here!
> 
> It goes against everything I have ever heard & experienced!
> 
> And padrón has always been essential as proof of address - & as I said for the school t receive funding.


Well, I'm not celebrating yet!! We have only been verbally told that they would get in.

I won´t believe it myself until I see it in writing.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Well, I'm not celebrating yet!! We have only been verbally told that they would get in.
> 
> I won´t believe it myself until I see it in writing.


Let us know what happens


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

So, hopefully with the education nightmare resolved I can turn my attention to tax!!

Moving in the middle of the year makes it tricky to decide what is best...

I enjoy quite a low tax rate in Thailand, so I believe that it would be beneficial to not be a tax resident in Spain in 2016. 

If I do become a tax resident in Spain in 2016, I will be taxed on my worldwide income, which means that I would have to pay further tax on my earnings for the first half of the year.

If I don't become a tax resident in 2016, I will only be liable for tax on what I earn in Spain during the second half of the year on normal Spanish rates.

On the other hand, the rent I get from my flat in Madrid is taxed at non-resident rate at the moment, so the earlier I become a tax resident, the earlier that tax burden will be reduced....

Aaaargh!!  First world problems....

I think that the best will be to remain as a non-tax resident for 2016, which means that I cannot spend more than 183 days in Spain during the year. As I have already been in Spain at New Year I now need to calculate the earliest date I can move, without being 183 days in Spain during the year...

Does this sound about right?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> Let us know what happens


Both of my chidren got into the school we applied for on the official admittance lists.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Overandout said:


> So, hopefully with the education nightmare resolved I can turn my attention to tax!!
> 
> Moving in the middle of the year makes it tricky to decide what is best...
> 
> ...



Yes. If you hadn't been here at all then early July would have been ok as the 183 would have passed. You just need to add on the days that you've been here & err on side of caution & move after.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Well, we arrived back in Spain today. Let the fun and games begin!!

My first big error was to allow the removals company to pack all of my desk contents without me separating out the stuff I should have brought with me in the suitcases.... so now I am in Spain with my car that has been in storeage for three years, but the documents are in a sea container, probably only just leaving Bangkok.... Whoops.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

welcome home


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