# Need help/info on move to mexico



## byebyeusa

hi all, thank-you in advance.....first time here, figured i could get some usefull information..... frankly, in a nutshell my gf and i are fed up with the united states and the future ( or lack thereof )of our country and think we are ready for a change..... a little about us...we are both 31 caucasion, im more "outgoing" shes pretty content staying to herself with 1 or 2 close friends, we dont need , or want to live in "luxury" ....just enjoy ourselves and the beautiful country of mexico ( from what we have seen in photos )... The only real MUST-haves is an area with a good to strong internet service ( will be alot of video-calls via skype back to family ) and for the home to be furnished....equivalent to middle-class in the usa is more than fine with us ( if its nicer, we wont complain  ) would prefer a place on or close to the ocean ( not a deal-breaker ) and would like to live in a "mixed" community where there are some americans ( to help transition ) possibly on the outskirts of the heavy tourist areas....1 or 2 bedrooms is fine, anything bigger would be a waste....we have a small dog ( less than 10 lbs full-grown ) ...also would be nice to just pay all the utilities through the landlord ( if that is possible ) but once again not a deal-breaker...also would be willing to pay up to maybe 6 months in advance ( for a nice enough place and a slight discount in the rent ) we figure 6 months should give us plenty of time to decide if we want to stay permanetly....we would like to keep our budget around $1500/month ( is that a reality? ) and lastly ( pretty picky huh?? lol ) we would like to be within 20-40 miles of the usa, " just in case " we need to come back quick for whatever reason... ( god-forbid ) ......anyone know if these accomodations are reasonable for $1500/month, and what area should/could we look for a place like this? once again, thank-you for your time


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## joelpb

I believe your best bet would be in baja ca. Mexicali, tj or rosarito. It has all
that you ask for.


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## TundraGreen

Your constraints make your decision pretty simple. There are only two places that meet your criteria, Tijuana and Matamoros. I suspect you could easily live on $1500 a month in either. 

I can't resist making an editorial comment: The tone of your post suggests to me that you are not likely to be happy in either place. I don't hear a lot of flexibility in your thinking and flexibility is a useful attribute if you want to enjoy life in a different culture. Incidentally, you don't say anything about how you plan to support yourself. You will need proof of income if you want to stay past the 180 days of a tourist permit.


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## RVGRINGO

I agree. The poster has not mentioned anything about meeting immigration requirements, temporarily importing a vehicle, etc. Frankly, with what they want, $1500 USD per month for two in a rental may be pretty spartan, although the restriction to border areas will leave them wanting for 'real Mexico', etc.
Sounds like a dream without a well formed plan, but they're young and have time for more homework.


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## conklinwh

I would not pick Matamoros as meet too many Mexicans in Harlingen/Brownsville that say that they don't even visit Matamoros anymore. Therefore if really need be that close, I think baja only choice but I also wonder why the limitation.
We decided, along with the beach/no beach decision, that we were comfortable staying within easy days drive to the US as we do a number of friends/family tours each year.
If you expanded to this time frame, you will have the option of many wonderful places to address the other targets you give.
What I'm having trouble with is the why. If you move to Mexico for only negative reasons, it will be highly probable that you will bring the negativity with you. I'd feel more comfortable if you talked about positive reasons along with goals for moving to Mexico.


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## byebyeusa1

had to get a new account, forgot my password and somehow screwed up changing the password, now its on a 15 min block....ugh...... as for living close to the usa, its mostly because,this may sound stupid to some, but im young and i still have the urge to work....i know about the restrictions of americans working in mexico and i feel a commute of 30-45 mins to the usa to work would be fine incase either i or my gf feel the need to get a job... as far as income, its kind of difficult and i was wandering.... we work on the internet, tax-free as "webcam performers" , please keep your indescretions to yourself, we make great money and work when we want to, doing something that we are gonna do anyways, if someone wants to pay to see it........more than fine with me......i have done my homework, thats why i wanted to live close enough to the usa because im not sure if that income would qualify for the $1500/month requirement.....all the earnings and payments are recorded online and might be pretty difficult to explain, even with paperwork to an official......and if it would be a problem i would gladly work in the usa...... we are pretty serious about this move , we also think living close enough to the border ( atleast atfirst ) would help with our transition into another country.....we do have a car, we are definetly thinking about selling it...and buying something not as "high-end" we currently have a cadillac cts, i dont really see the need to bring attention to ourselves, and frankly a cadillac may not be quite-suited for mexico anyways.... i'm talking about repairs and the like, pretty expensive to repair ( i dont care where you live )


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## FHBOY

What you do or how you earn a living is none of anyone's business but your own. I have found that we here, on the Forum, are not judgmental, opinionated [civilly] yes, but not judgmental. 

Living in the US has a lot a stress, granted, but it is stress you are used to. Yes if I was 30-ish I'd also be looking at the US and saying "WTF is going to happen here in the next 30 years" and be looking to move. Back in the day, when I was younger than you, ours was escaping a war to Canada because we, too, were asking what is going to happen.

Unsolicited and uninvited advice (and totally worthless): examine your alternatives carefully, adding the stress of a new culture may be a lot more difficult. As I have learned here, moving to Mexico is nothing like visiting it. Living is tougher. But, saying this, if you feel, deep down, that you have no future in the US, follow your feelings, but please do not expect that the baggage you carry now will be any the less once you get where you are going, in fact you may even add to it-with stress of a new culture. You carry it everywhere.

Come to Mexico for all the great things, the weather, the people, the food, the slow paced (if you want) life style and yes a possible higher living standard for your money. If this is truly your destiny, you cannot deny it.

Oh, and I have read here that the internet is not so great there as it is in the US - it is much better in Europe (so I hear).

Good luck and have fun!


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## byebyeusa1

You pretty much nailed it on the head FHBOY.... I am no genius in economics, but I truly believe the "worst" is yet to come....I had my doubts and then I watched the " newamerica6" video from the guy that predicted the recession the first time and I was blown away... With that said, we are not moving to "just get away " from problems, but it IS part of the reason.. Mexico is a beautiful country and we want to experience it... Then decide if we feel like we have a future there, maybe "further in" maybe not.... And maybe Mexico won't be for us, but there's no way to know until we try it.....


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## byebyeusa1

You pretty much nailed it on the head FHBOY.... I am no genius in economics, but I truly believe the "worst" is yet to come....I had my doubts and then I watched the " newamerica6" video from the guy that predicted the recession the first time and I was blown away... With that said, we are not moving to "just get away " from


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## joelpb

from every thing you said i think TJ or mexicali is your best bet. you can live real good in 
those cities for the amount you said. plus if you want to work in the usa it is a easy
crossing. just get the sentri pass and the waiting is short.


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## bigfootbill

If I were you I would check out Puerto Peñasco. It has everything you are looking for.
Bill


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## FHBOY

byebyeusa1 said:


> You pretty much nailed it on the head FHBOY....


I do not know where in the US you are, but be sure to study the year ropund climate of where you want to go. We wanted to settle in Puerto Vallarta until we discovered the rainy season heat and humidity. So we looked for a place in which the homes didn't even have central heat or A/C, and the humidity, even during the rainy season was very tolerable (statistically). 

If you're from West Texas or South Fl orida, the coast is a great place to go, and that place Puerto Penasco has great low housing costs. I couldn't live there, up to 105 degrees with high humidity  during the rainy season.


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## bigfootbill

*Puerto penasco, sonora mexico*

Well, I have been there for 18 years and compaired to other places in Mexico in my opinion the 12 months of weather is much more desireble. For example, yes 1/2 of December & 1/2 of Janary is cold (but places have heaters) and July and August is a little humid, but nothing like the other places in Mexico. So that leave 8 months of great weather. AND it is drivable from the USA with no problems like other places in Mexico.
We are all diferent, this is just my opinion.
Bill



FHBOY said:


> I do not know where in the US you are, but be sure to study the year ropund climate of where you want to go. We wanted to settle in Puerto Vallarta until we discovered the rainy season heat and humidity. So we looked for a place in which the homes didn't even have central heat or A/C, and the humidity, even during the rainy season was very tolerable (statistically).
> 
> If you're from West Texas or South Fl orida, the coast is a great place to go, and that place Puerto Penasco has great low housing costs. I couldn't live there, up to 105 degrees with high humidity  during the rainy season.


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## FHBOY

bigfootbill said:


> Well, I have been there for 18 years and compaired to other places in Mexico in my opinion the 12 months of weather is much more desireble. For example, yes 1/2 of December & 1/2 of Janary is cold (but places have heaters) and July and August is a little humid, but nothing like the other places in Mexico. So that leave 8 months of great weather. AND it is drivable from the USA with no problems like other places in Mexico.
> We are all diferent, this is just my opinion.
> Bill


And this is why they make chocolate ice cream. All valid input-individuality is welcome and on climate there is no absolute wrong or right-it is the most subjective decision to be made if you move anywhere.


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## RVGRINGO

To each, his own. We happen to prefer no hot weather and no cold weather, predictable rainy season and the culture of interior Mexico; not the 'norteño' mix of culture. We have easy access to Pacific beaches, but don't have to live in their summer climate or put up with the 'touristy atmosphere' unless we chose to drop in for a quick 'beach fix', which we do, most winters, for several days.
FHBoy has explained his choices well, and we agree. Having been here for over a decade, we keep wondering if there might be a better climate, but just can't find one. Having Guadalajara close by is also a major advantage.


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## byebyeusa1

Well we have lived in the northeast,Kentucky and are currently in Florida..... So we have been in 3 vastly different climates and have adjusted to them all pretty nicely....not sure if we have a preference on a climate, and listening to you guys, there's a few choices ( which is nice to have ) ... We do want to start off close to the coastline, because from the Pics we have seen, it is absolutely beautiful....


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## conklinwh

Actually as I go back to your initial post, the 1st issue that you need grapple with is the "20-40 mi" from the border. I think that unless you are comfortable & able to be further than commuting distance of the border, that your only choice is northern baja.
As I had said earlier if you extended this to one day's drive to the border, you would have many wonderful options with beach/not beach an important decision.


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## RVGRINGO

The vast majority of Mexicans would hate to live in a border town. It is a different world up there and they find it lacking in culture and tranquility, to say nothing of the nasty weather. They don't think much of the people, either.


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## leegleze

There are more than a few Americans who are independent internet performers or computer programmers, and who get their payment through PayPal. I know several who live down here near Puerto Vallarta. They have no trouble making a living as long as they are paid through the internet as well. If you do some research on that, I'm sure you will find that living farther away from the border is a very viable option.


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## AlanMexicali

*Border Towns*



RVGRINGO said:


> The vast majority of Mexicans would hate to live in a border town. It is a different world up there and they find it lacking in culture and tranquility, to say nothing of the nasty weather. They don't think much of the people, either.


What you just stated is correct as in Mexicans who have never visited border towns/cities or did not for long enough to get to know what it really is like, have this negative stereotypical view of them. I call it prejudice. They seem to dwell on the fact that border cities are full of liberal thinkers which their particular status quo calls for them to oppress. Ex: the way women dress sexy at all ages, the high divorce rate, women working in factories by the thousands. both sexes marrying or desperately trying to marry Americanos. Everyone trying to get immigrated to "the other side" The US. , US influence that they think is negative, violent crime, heavy drug use. etc.


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## AlanMexicali

*Silence is golden in some cases.*



RVGRINGO said:


> The vast majority of Mexicans would hate to live in a border town. It is a different world up there and they find it lacking in culture and tranquility, to say nothing of the nasty weather. They don't think much of the people, either.


My previous post might sound a bit harsh, but being introduced into the Central Mexican scene for 3 1/2 years now I have picked up many things. I also know enough not to argue or defend against positions held by older adults, this is considered low class. That being said I listen to what they think but do not, ever, comment to them as to my opinion. I listen. When asked a specific question about Americans, San Diego, the US, Mexicali, TJ. etc. I will often say I don't really know or better yet agree to some degree without going into any details. I do tell them the 110 in Mexicali is not impossible to live in for various reasons. This seems to pop up alot, especially since 5 hours east of SLP La Huasteca area can get to over 100 with 85% humidity and they all have been through that, brutal they say. I can hardly wait. LOL


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## byebyeusa1

Hmmmm.... I wrote a rather long reply giving thanks and the like for the information, but it never showed up?? Damn iPhone ...smh..... Oh well, another question I've been wondering about is, is there any casinos or reputable card playing ( Texas hold em ) establements anywhere near these areas: rosarito,Ensenada, or any other areas mentioned in this thread? Doesn't have to be "next door" but 45 mins or so drive would be fine...


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## joelpb

there are many casinos in tj and mexicali and norte baja. plenty across the border
in ca. not far from the mexican border. from what you say and want baja ca.
is your best bet. baja is great. you will hear from people who live in other
parts of mexico who have there own ideas of what is good and that is their right.
some will how great the weather is where they are and that is good for them
but you would not expect them so say they hated where they live.

in baja you have the best of every thing. weather, cost of living, being close to
the USA. baja is not like the rest of mexico it is better. the weather is great. 
you can go from ensenada to san felipe in two hours both grea places.
you can go to cabo or any of the other great palces in baja.


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## byebyeusa1

I'm having a little trouble with the geography.....as it is a "foreign" country ... Guess it would akin to trying to explain to a "foreigner" about Miami and Orlando ..... 2 vastly different major cities in the same "state".... Please disregard my ignorance, but is rosarito in baja? Am I correct that baja is a "state" ? Is rosarito in the "free zone" ? ....... I know, I know.... Google it..... But as I'm sure we all know, the Internet is a mess these days with advertising and the such... I remember, not too long ago, you could type something in a search engine and find exactly what you were looking for.... Now a days it's an hour long process....anyways, thank you for all the help everyone


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## joelpb

YES IT IS JUST A FEW MILES SOUTH OF TJ. 30 MILES FROM THE BORDER WITH
SAN DIEGO.lane:


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## RVGRINGO

byebyeusa1 said:


> I'm having a little trouble with the geography.....as it is a "foreign" country ... Guess it would akin to trying to explain to a "foreigner" about Miami and Orlando ..... 2 vastly different major cities in the same "state".... Please disregard my ignorance, but is rosarito in baja? Am I correct that baja is a "state" ? Is rosarito in the "free zone" ? ....... I know, I know.... Google it..... But as I'm sure we all know, the Internet is a mess these days with advertising and the such... I remember, not too long ago, you could type something in a search engine and find exactly what you were looking for.... Now a days it's an hour long process....anyways, thank you for all the help everyone


Maps, maps, maps!


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## maryellen1952

byebyeusa1 said:


> I'm having a little trouble with the geography.....as it is a "foreign" country ... Guess it would akin to trying to explain to a "foreigner" about Miami and Orlando ..... 2 vastly different major cities in the same "state".... Please disregard my ignorance, but is rosarito in baja? Am I correct that baja is a "state" ? Is rosarito in the "free zone" ? ....... I know, I know.... Google it..... But as I'm sure we all know, the Internet is a mess these days with advertising and the such... I remember, not too long ago, you could type something in a search engine and find exactly what you were looking for.... Now a days it's an hour long process....anyways, thank you for all the help everyone


Rosarito is NOT in the free zone. The free zone consists of border towns such as Tijuana, etc. 
Also be careful about rentals in Rosarito. I rented an apartment through Grupo Lemus Realty and can't get them to fix leaks in my apartment and they misquote rental rates and have a high turnover due to their management (or lack of it).


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## cary2some

Just registered, 
Also wanting to leave US. Maybe just for a few months. Don't need to be close to the border, actually the farther the better.


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## AlanMexicali

*Free Zone*



maryellen1952 said:


> Rosarito is NOT in the free zone. The free zone consists of border towns such as Tijuana, etc.
> Also be careful about rentals in Rosarito. I rented an apartment through Grupo Lemus Realty and can't get them to fix leaks in my apartment and they misquote rental rates and have a high turnover due to their management (or lack of it).


Rosirito and all of Baja Norte and possibly Baja Sur are in the "Free Zone". No need to get a FMM or an auto transit sticker when traveling or living in Baja.
I have traveled all over Baja Norte by car and have asked about this several times.


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## joaquinx

AlanMexicali said:


> Rosirito and all of Baja Norte and possibly Baja Sur are in the "Free Zone". No need to get a FMM or an auto transit sticker when traveling or living in Baja.


Sure? Baja California is in the free zone and you don't need an FMM if you are staying 72 hours or less. At least that is what this site says Immigration / Discover Baja California


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## maryellen1952

Be careful about rentals and real estate agents as they do not have to be licensed here in Mexico.
I rented an apartment in a building from this agent, Celia Bahena at [email protected]. She tells you she is from Veracruz and has lived in New York City. She did jnot check the apartment before I moved in and when I did it was dirty and had a lot of trash that I simply put on the sidewalk for management to pick up.
I have had a difficult time getting the owner, Ricardo, to do repairs such as leaks in ceiling and both he and Celia tell you one rental price and when you sign the lease it is a higher price. Apparently they split the difference. 

Google link to building: Google Maps


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## AlanMexicali

*Very sure*



joaquinx said:


> Sure? Baja California is in the free zone and you don't need an FMM if you are staying 72 hours or less. At least that is what this site says Immigration / Discover Baja California


I'll be wondering if they enforce this. I have never heard of it before.


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## joaquinx

AlanMexicali said:


> I'll be wondering if they enforce this. I have never heard of it before.


So you believe that the link is bogus?


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## AlanMexicali

*Link*



joaquinx said:


> So you believe that the link is bogus?



Not I don't. Policies are in place exactly like they describe but possibly never enforced except when an incident happens were they come in handy, who really knows. Multiple FMMs in a row is not a problem if you live there.


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## RVGRINGO

If you are living in 'the zone', you should get a proper visa. It will make your official dealings much easier and also allow you to move about Mexico freely. 
If an 'incident' did occur, being 'illegal' could be a major disadvantage.


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## AlanMexicali

*Baja*



RVGRINGO said:


> If you are living in 'the zone', you should get a proper visa. It will make your official dealings much easier and also allow you to move about Mexico freely.
> If an 'incident' did occur, being 'illegal' could be a major disadvantage.


I know what you are saying but I doubt the people living in Baja south of Ensenada even know about the law. I would also presume most of them travel back and forth across the border and never get asked any questions when entering Mexico by the officers when they get a red light except pop open your trunk. Stopping to get a FMM for $227.00 pesos is a good idea for them south of the free zone. I doubt the 72 hour law for those of us in the free zone has never been considered a problem.


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## jasavak

*Rosarito*



joelpb said:


> I believe your best bet would be in baja ca. Mexicali, tj or rosarito. It has all
> that you ask for.



I agree . Rosarito , playas de Tijuana or Ensenada would be a good match .


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## bigfootbill

As you explore as try Googling Puerto Peñasco
Bill


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## bigfootbill

Anyone have suggestions on fun things to do inPuerto Villarta. Friendster are leaving next week for a month
B


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## La Paz

AlanMexicali said:


> Rosirito and all of Baja Norte and possibly Baja Sur are in the "Free Zone". No need to get a FMM or an auto transit sticker when traveling or living in Baja.
> I have traveled all over Baja Norte by car and have asked about this several times.


AlanMexicali, most of the information you posted is incorrect! There is a time & distance restriction; in simplistic terms, it's 72-hours & no farther south than Ensenada without an FMT (formerly FMM). But, there is a very dark gray area as to whether vehicle insurance is valid if you're in the country without a FMT or other longer term visa. Many Mexican insurance policies have clauses that the registered owner must be in Mexico legally (i.e., at minimum have a valid FMT, paid for & stamped) to be valid.

The one partially accurate statement you made; with caveats; is that there are no temporary vehicle import requirements for Baja*....AS LONG AS....*the registered owner is in the country legally. Anything in excess of 72-hours & further south than Ensenada *DOES* legally require FMT or FM3/FM2. As long as the registered owner is in country legally, so is the vehicle. 

*LIVING* in Baja, Norte or Sur, legally requires FM3 or FM2 because: (1.) As a resident, you're no longer considered a tourist & (2.) It clearly violates the 72-hour exception. 

As for you're statement "I have traveled all over Baja Norte by car and have asked about this several times.", I think the answer you'd receive would depend on many things....specifically what questions you asked; who you ask; did you specify under 72-hours tourist north of Ensenada or full-time residency; or did you simply ask if temporary vehicle import is required?

How would you feel if a reader were to take your words as gospel & ended up having their vehicle & possessions confiscated & themselves deported? All are very real potential legal repercussions to anyone accepting your words as fact. Please do the research. IMO, it's irresponsible & does more harm than good to post inaccurate information or rumors; it's wisest to only respond to posts for which you have factual first-hand experience & knowledge.


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## kcowan

bigfootbill said:


> Anyone have suggestions on fun things to do in Puerto Villarta. Friendster are leaving next week for a month
> B


A friend maintains this site:
Puerto Vallarta information on tours, hotels, weather and the best Puerto Vallarta maps
Great maps. There are also Meetups on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday nights.


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## FHBOY

La Paz said:


> AlanMexicali, most of the information you posted is incorrect!...factual first-hand experience & knowledge.


Alan: I agree and have found most of the info here verifiable and spot on. Like anything else we find on the web, from other than "officiate" sources, we must verify it ourselves. In the USA/Canada that is usually easily done, but as I am finding out, doing that about Mexico is a bit more difficult. Might I suggest a disclaimer if advice is offered such as "When last I checked.." or "I have been told by...that..." In this way we all maintain our credibility and respect for each other and if errors are found, they, not the people who posted them, are corrected.

Oh, and LaPaz, from experience, unless I know who am am getting info from, I never trust a source on a board, thread or in some cases even email. The internet is a bastion for false information.  Why a friend of mine even has invented a complete fictional town on Wikipedia and after four years, no one has challenged it, and it is still there, to teach the kids in his IT class this lesson: Like IRL, you must trust a source. 

I thank all who post here...do not hesitate, but verify or else use a disclaimer. We all can stay friends this way.


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## scubakevin

There is a slight error in your response La Paz, the FMT allows visitors to remain in Mexico for up to 6 months at a time provided they are not gainfully employed. You can live in Mexico for blocks of 6 months and get 6 month extensions provided you can prove financial independence outside of Mexico.

A non Mexican can own property without having an FM3 or FM2 simply with a passport and FMT you can purchase a home and depending on where you purchase you may or may not need to pay the 1% for the fideicomiso but lets not get off track. 

To LIVE in Mexico you do not need an FM3 or FM2 you can live for blocks of time but if you are considering a longer move you might want to think about the FM3 to be able to open bank accounts and all that crap. A tourist cannot buy a car, get a Cellular Phone or Telephone so that might be an impediment. 

I have a friend who is from France and he lives 6 months here in Mexico and 6 months in France and owns a home with his Mexican Wife and has never had an FM3 or FM2 he always stays on the tourist visa.

Also the use of RESIDENT is incorrect, just because one LIVES here doesn't make them a resident, Someone can live here for 6 months and not be a resident.

As far as the Free Zone that Alan mentions I don't know, I can tell you that if you arrive to Mexico via Boat you must register with the Customs and Immigration offices within 24 hours of arrival.

Something that you can ask 100 people and get 100 different answers.


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## scubakevin

ByeByeUSA

I was a your ages when we made the move but I made the move without having those border restrictions in mind. We moved from Manhattan to Mexico City and later to Cancun, I returned to Mexico City alone in 2005 just before the big hurricanes and back to Playa del Carmen in 2007 for business motives.

This year we moved again to Mexico City for business reasons and here we have all we need. I don't particularly like West Coast at all for living, Cancun and Playa are great beach locations but we were board culturally. We live in Mexico City in a district that is like Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or 5th Avenue in Manhattan, all of the finest designer shops and best restaurants within walking distance. Great locations to visit on the weekend a couple hours drive and when we have to we head to Cancun or Playa or Tulum.

My wife and I also have various internet businesses and I have a production studio here in the City. Me, ME personally I can't live on $1500 a month and what you do should net you a great deal more monthly. One of my companies specializes in Marketing for the Adult Entertainment Industry but we specialize in Latin America and South American Markets but Global Positioning.

What I did before making the move was just sell everything in the US and moved my furniture into storage for 16 months and then had it shipped to Mexico. I have been back to the US 1 time in 17 years and that was to take care of my fathers affairs when he passed. I would never go back to live in the US for any reason. My wife and I like you can work from almost anywhere but find Mexico best value for our money. 

We just had a fiber optic network installed here with 100 mb capacity and no longer have small town issues like we did in Cancun or Playa with internet.

Regards


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## La Paz

scubakevin said:


> There is a slight error in your response La Paz, the FMT allows visitors to remain in Mexico for up to 6 months at a time provided they are not gainfully employed. You can live in Mexico for blocks of 6 months and get 6 month extensions provided you can prove financial independence outside of Mexico. *1
> 
> A non Mexican can own property without having an FM3 or FM2 simply with a passport and FMT you can purchase a home and depending on where you purchase you may or may not need to pay the 1% for the fideicomiso but lets not get off track. *2
> 
> To LIVE in Mexico you do not need an FM3 or FM2 you can live for blocks of time but if you are considering a longer move you might want to think about the FM3 to be able to open bank accounts and all that crap. A tourist cannot buy a car, get a Cellular Phone or Telephone so that might be an impediment. *3
> 
> I have a friend who is from France and he lives 6 months here in Mexico and 6 months in France and owns a home with his Mexican Wife and has never had an FM3 or FM2 he always stays on the tourist visa. *4
> 
> Also the use of RESIDENT is incorrect, just because one LIVES here doesn't make them a resident, Someone can live here for 6 months and not be a resident. *5
> 
> As far as the Free Zone that Alan mentions I don't know, I can tell you that if you arrive to Mexico via Boat you must register with the Customs and Immigration offices within 24 hours of arrival.
> 
> Something that you can ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. *6



There is no income requirement associated with a 180-day FMT/tourist permit; there are income requirements for FM3/FM2.


No argument to the new issue you introduced....yes, a non-Mexican can legally purchase property as long as they're in the country legally on a valid FMT; it states that on the FMT. However, should the need arise, you're in a much better position to pursue legal resolution if you have an FM3/FM2 than if you have an FMT/tourist permit. 

DANG!!! You folks over there in mainland are getting a helluva deal if you're only paying a measly 1% Fideicomiso fee! Current Baja fideicomiso fees are running approximately 4.5% of the purchase price....add approximately $1k USD more if there isn't currently an existing fideicomiso in place. Plus the Notario is also tasked with collecting the approximate 2% (in Baja) acquisition tax & passing it onto Hacienda!


Local INM offices *used to* issue new 180-day FMT's; changes to the laws & regulations closed that loophole 1-2 years ago; you are now required to leave & re-enter the country for all but extraordinary extenuating circumstances. 


Your French friend most likely bought his property under his Mexican wife's name, negating the need of a Fideicomiso & as long as he doesn't exceed 180-days, he's in the country legally on an FMT. 


I'm not going to nitpick with you over the legal definition of "resident".


Exactly the point of my original post....I'm talking what's *legal under Mexican law* rather than rumors or 100 different people's assumptions or what 100 different people may have gotten away with circumventing existing laws.


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## joaquinx

scubakevin said:


> There is a slight error in your response La Paz, the FMT allows visitors to remain in Mexico for up to 6 months at a time provided they are not gainfully employed. You can live in Mexico for blocks of 6 months and get 6 month extensions provided you can prove financial independence outside of Mexico.


There is no FMT. If your giving advice, it's an FMM and it can not be extended beyond six months. You must exit the country and re-enter to get a new one. Are you confusing it with an FM3 type visa?


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## RVGRINGO

FMT is now the FMM. It is not renewable and is good for up to 180 days in Mexico. Void on exit.
FM3 is now the 'no inmigrante credencial' with various categories.
FM2 is now the 'inmigrante credencial' with various categories.
FM3 and FM2 will merge into 'residente temporal' sometime after January; the change is late now.
'Inmigrado' will become 'residente permanente'.
There is no Fideicomiso inland; never has been.


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## scubakevin

Hey La Paz,

Yeah it is nothing to do with who said what or did what facts are facts, I have set up and done INM stuff for companies and people as well as employees here in Mexico. 

There was indeed no income requirement for an 180 day FMT which I never said there was. What I said was you COULD extend it another 180 days provided you could show you had the means to stay in the country without being gainfully employed and have financial independence outside Mexico in the past we did this with a credit card. This has not be eliminated because in december last year I did it for a Brit who had an expiring FMT and was to begin the FM3 process. Of course you know now that we don't have the FM3 FM2 and FM1 visas any more, we are simplifying the process and there is "non-inmigrante" which replaces the old FM3 which is for employees and temporary workers and people in non important positions. The "Inmigrante" which replaces the FM2. 

The difference are subtles but if you are coming only to live you will get the "No Inmigrante" which will clearly state you are a VISITOR "Visitante" and on the Inmigrante it will have your status.

There are some interesting issues with the Inmigrante compared to the old FM2 which are for example if you come to Mexico and open a business but are operating as an sole proprietor you have to wait at least 3 years to convert to Inmigrante you can't start like the old FM2 with an FM2 because you own a business but... If you incorporate the business and are listed as the director, presidente, or person legally responsible for the company you can get an FM" now called "Inmigrante" immediately.

This is related to what banks and other institutions will require from you to contract certain things for your business like CREDIT or Banking for Corporations, there is a fine legal line in Mexico when it comes to Corporations "Personas Morales" and Sole Proprietorships "Persona Fisica" under the tax as well as civil and penal laws.

Anyway, if the have since done away with the fmt extension which cost $896 pesos last year I don't know, I do know that since 3 years ago they charge you $389 pesos for a lost FMT or tourist card. I am going to check that about the extensions.

Yes Mildred we participated in more than 200 closings in Quintana Roo and yes we only paid the 1% fideicomiso "Santander Serfin" and of course the percentages at closing for notary and Public Registry.

There are many banks that will hold the fideicomiso for you but I am sure that none of them have a different rate, I haven't done a closing with one since 2009 but I will check that as well. 

When we have someone looking at purchases here we always tell them that it is approximately 11% of the sale price that it will cost in closing costs including the fideicomiso and all lawyer, notary, Public Registry.

Also remember that the Fideicomiso only applies within 50 miles of water and land borders to prevent the gringos from doing another Texas... JAJA just joking

Of course my friend from France and I did the same thing until I changed nationality, everything in wifes name to avoid paying extra fees. When you do that in Mexico you need to make sure you are Married Legally in Mexico and under the "Bienes en Comunes" which means in the event of divorce automatically everything is 50 / 50 there is no fighting. If you marry with bienes por seperados which means each owns what is in his / her name your screwed... 

The same with one of our corporations which is a Maritime Corporation that does paperwork for vessels and permits with the SCT and Captain of the Port has to be 100% Mexican so it is in the name of my wife and her mother although I am the legal representative I would be screwed if anything happened, I put wife with 99% of the shares and mom with 1% so that if there is a divorce I would still get 49.5% of the company.

But 80% of the closings we have done since 2002 have been people who purchased using FMT and Passport as ID, again there is no need to have an FM3 unless you are planning to stay more than 6 months at a time and save yourself the old extensions. Obviously we worked with a lot of people buying vacation properties mostly baby boomers, not people ready to retire or move to Mexico full time.

I think that INM has clearly defined now the difference between visitor and resident there is no need to opine over the definition.

As far as the 100 different answers and 100 different responses its on point, that is why we have a full time Mexican Lawyer here and a part time US Lawyer in Washington DC to work out the details when they exist and opine on the law. After all in Mexico for me to have a full time lawyer it costs me $12,000 pesos a month as opposed to a $50,000 pesos headache and worrying about contract language and all that crap.

Anyway, I am curious La Paz on the percentage you paid for the fideicomiso, can I be as bold as to ask which bank holds the "F"?


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## jasavak

" Also remember that the Fideicomiso only applies within 50 miles of water and land borders to prevent the gringos from doing another Texas..."

The reason Mexico made the law that restricts foreigners from owning near the coast or border was to prevent installation of foreign military bases in Mexico . They feared European countries wanted to invade North America .


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## La Paz

scubakevin said:


> Hey La Paz,
> Anyway, I am curious La Paz on the percentage you paid for the fideicomiso, can I be as bold as to ask which bank holds the "F"?



Sure, you can ask, but the information's no longer current/pertinent.

1999 Fideicomiso through BanCrecer (later bought out by BanNorte) w/annual bank fee $330 ($300 fee + 10% IVA)
2004 Fideicomiso through HSBC w/annual bank fee $440 ($400 fee + 10% IVA)
2006 Fideicomiso through HSBC w/annual bank fee $440 ($400 fee + 10% IVA)

Each of the properties I bought had never been in fideicomiso, so my initial fees, Notario & closing costs were higher. I don't remember or have easy access to the % charged by Notario at closing.

scubakevin, if you're going to pursue this discussion further, I think it only fair to the OP to start your own new thread since this has veered off original topic. 


*Lo siento RVGRINGO*, I know all the names have all been changed to protect the innocent, I've yet to dig myself out of the old name rut!


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## RVGRINGO

I think it was the USA that Mexico feared. After all, the USA did invade Mexico and took over half of it, which we now call 'The Southwest'.


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## La Paz

scubakevin said:


> Hey La Paz,
> Anyway, I am curious La Paz on the percentage you paid for the fideicomiso, can I be as bold as to ask which bank holds the "F"?



Sure, you can ask, but the information's no longer current/pertinent.

1999 Fideicomiso through BanCrecer (later bought out by BanNorte) w/annual bank fee $330 ($300 fee + 10% IVA)
2004 Fideicomiso through HSBC w/annual bank fee $440 ($400 fee + 10% IVA)
2006 Fideicomiso through HSBC w/annual bank fee $440 ($400 fee + 10% IVA)

Each of the properties I bought had never been in fideicomiso, so my initial fees, Notario & closing costs were higher. I don't remember or have easy access to the % charged by Notario at closing.

scubakevin, if you're going to pursue this discussion further, I think it only fair to the OP to start your own new thread since this has veered off original topic. 


*Lo siento RVGRINGO*, I know all the names have all been changed to protect the innocent, I've yet to dig myself out of the old name rut! Too late to go back & edit to correct original post which I actually got backwards! :redface:


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## jasavak

RVGRINGO said:


> I think it was the USA that Mexico feared. After all, the USA did invade Mexico and took over half of it, which we now call 'The Southwest'.


Actually, it’s nearly the opposite. . Mexico thought the Germans could build bases on the borders and Navy ship yards on the coasts to launch attacks on the U.S. I believe it was 1917 when Mexico made the law. They especially feared that U-boat fleets could be used to attack the U.S. and expand the war into North America .


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## RVGRINGO

You are probably correct, Jasavak. Do you remember the old saying, "Poor Mexico. So far from god and so near to the USA."?


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## joaquinx

jasavak said:


> Mexico thought the Germans could build bases on the borders and Navy ship yards on the coasts to launch attacks on the U.S. I believe it was 1917 when Mexico made the law. They especially feared that U-boat fleets could be used to attack the U.S. and expand the war into North America .


This seems a bit far fetched considering that the US was looking over the fence and any German operations into Mexico would be dealt with severely such as a invasion of Veracruz. Hmm, that did happen.


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## jasavak

joaquinx said:


> This seems a bit far fetched considering that the US was looking over the fence and any German operations into Mexico would be dealt with severely such as a invasion of Veracruz. Hmm, that did happen.



I think they feared Germans could have purchased property in remote areas of the coast and use them as submarine bases . 

Can you imagine if the Germans placed bases 300 miles south of San Diego in Baja California and on islands in the Yucatan area . In 1917 , Mexico would have had a hard time removing them .


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## jasavak

RVGRINGO said:


> You are probably correct, Jasavak. Do you remember the old saying, "Poor Mexico. So far from god and so near to the USA."?



It sounds familiar . Have you heard the saying " se fue al norte " ? My friend uses it tell people someone died . However , it also means someone emigrated to the U.S.


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## joaquinx

jasavak said:


> In 1917 , Mexico would have had a hard time removing them .


I sure that the US would have done in the bases before the Mexican Navy could organize a strike. 

Mexico was still smarting over the lose of over half their country and didn't wish to lose any more. US oil companies had bought coastal land and, by contract, were exempt from Mexican laws and certain taxes. The government of Carranza didn't want a repeat of these contracts. Believing that once foreign corporation got hold of border or sea coast land, they would petition the US to take possession of it.


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## jasavak

joaquinx said:


> I sure that the US would have done in the bases before the Mexican Navy could organize a strike.
> 
> Mexico was still smarting over the lose of over half their country and didn't wish to lose any more. US oil companies had bought coastal land and, by contract, were exempt from Mexican laws and certain taxes. The government of Carranza didn't want a repeat of these contracts. Believing that once foreign corporation got hold of border or sea coast land, they would petition the US to take possession of it.




Probably . However it would take U.S. Navy resources and an invasion on Mexican soil . If the Mexicans sat there and watched them , then they would be in a much worse position of debt to the U.S. wouldn't they ?


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## joaquinx

jasavak said:


> Probably . However it would take U.S. Navy resources and an invasion on Mexican soil . If the Mexicans sat there and watched them , then they would be in a much worse position of debt to the U.S. wouldn't they ?


In 1914, the US Navy invaded Veracruz.


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## SanFelipe

If you don't mind extending your distance from the boarder to 2 hours, I'd recommend San Felipe which is also part of the Baja Peninsula. I live here, so this is what I'm comfortable talking about. There's a good size community of expats here. You can live on $1,500 and very important, the violence plaguing many parts of Mexico is alien to San Felipe.


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