# How to file back taxes to US from Canada?



## andsoitgoes

Okay, my other post is insignificant in comparison to this one.

I obviously have neglected my duties with filing in the US.

I've been here for 14 years this year, and I haven't filed a US tax return since around 1997 I believe.

I know, I know. I need to rectify this.

From what I've seen, I need to file the last 3 - 4 years in taxes.

What I CANNOT find is what exactly I need to download, fill out and mail in.

I'm married, and have 2 kids. The longest time I've been out of Canada is when I had to go home and visit my family, as my dad was sick and passed away. I actually think I may have been out of Canada and in the US for over 35 calendar days during that time. That would have been in 2010, but I can't remember exactly. 

I don't have the money to pay an accountant to help me figure this out, as I barely make ends meet as it stands (which is why I've tried to do a bit of freelance writing), and I'm far from skilled on these matters. I use tax programs to help me out and would be lost if not for them.

Thanks in advance, and I apologize for asking such a heavy question, but I hope someone here will be able to help out, preferably so I can have everything finalized by June 15th 

On another note, as I have children that were born in 2005, should I go all the way back to my 2005 taxes (they were born in January 2005)? Would that help me at all?

Thanks,

Nick


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## Bevdeforges

OK, first of all, don't panic. You're in the same boat as lots of people who live outside the US and "don't realize they have to file."

First thing to download is Publication 54, which explains how you file from outside the US and, most importantly, explains the overseas earned income exclusion and how it works.

Don't worry about having been in the US for more than 35 days. That doesn't really matter once you qualify for the "bona fide resident" test. (It is relevant if you're using the physical presence test only.)

For general information on US tax filings, Publication 17 should have everything you need (and more), but to start out with, the instructions for Form 1040 should suffice. Everything (including prior years' forms) is downloadable from the IRS website.

You don't really have to go back to the year your kids were born. But, in order to take them as your dependents, you will need to have social security numbers for them. 

Anyhow, download Pub 54 and maybe the instructions for the 1040, get reading and then come back with your questions.
Cheers,
Bev


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## andsoitgoes

Hi Bev,

Thanks for getting back to me. I downloaded 54... My head lightly exploded. I've gone through it, but it's really complicated for me.

I'm hoping to clear some things up...

- What forms do I need for filing the taxes? I see talk about the 1040, the 2555, etc. But do I need the 2555EZ? 
- So I have no choice but to get SSN #'s for my daughters to use as dependents? I've never thought about that, but I guess I need to now. Would I actually be looking at getting something back? I heard about the $1k/child tax credit, but if my income is exempted entirely, is it pointless and a waste of time?
- I thought you had to go back around about 6 years for back tax filings?

Anyway, I'm baffled with these things and I feel like an idiot. I've looked through it, and feel frighteningly lost.

Thanks 

Nick


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## andsoitgoes

Anyone else able to help out... Please?


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## Saskslam

andsoitgoes said:


> Anyone else able to help out... Please?


Curious - did you ever find some additional answers? - cause I find myself in a similar boat...


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## andsoitgoes

No, I haven't. I've tried downloading and going through everything but I'm futher behind now than I was before I started. 

I found an accounting firm willing to help, butnthey charge 4-500/return, and the only way I could afford that would be AFTER I got the credit from my kids. So it's crazy, especially if I don't get the full credit. And the thought that it will cost me 1/4 of the money I'd get back, yikes.


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## Bevdeforges

Sorry for not getting back sooner. I don't always check posts in the Canada section and apparently missed that you had replied to me.



andsoitgoes said:


> I'm hoping to clear some things up...
> 
> - What forms do I need for filing the taxes? I see talk about the 1040, the 2555, etc. But do I need the 2555EZ?


At a minimum, you'll need the 1040 and some version of the 2555. The top of the 2555EZ lists what you need to file that version - if you don't meet the criteria, then use the long form. But there's no penalty for using the long form in any event.



> - So I have no choice but to get SSN #'s for my daughters to use as dependents? I've never thought about that, but I guess I need to now. Would I actually be looking at getting something back? I heard about the $1k/child tax credit, but if my income is exempted entirely, is it pointless and a waste of time?


To claim your daughters (or anyone) as dependents, you'll need to get them social security numbers. Not a bad idea to do this, anyhow, as having a US citizen parent, they are US citizens, whether or not they were registered with the consulate at birth. They'll eventually need US passports if they ever want to travel there - and easier to arrange all that now then to wait until they're adults.



> - I thought you had to go back around about 6 years for back tax filings?


Normally they'll let you off the hook with back filing for 3 years - as long as you don't show any unusual item that indicates you've been avoiding taxes somehow.

There are a bunch of online tax filing and calculation sites. Even if you can't do your filing using the site, you can fill out the information and get a feel for what numbers go where on the forms. First time is normally the toughest - it gets easier after that.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Saskslam

Bevdeforges said:


> Sorry for not getting back sooner. I don't always check posts in the Canada section and apparently missed that you had replied to me.
> 
> 
> At a minimum, you'll need the 1040 and some version of the 2555. The top of the 2555EZ lists what you need to file that version - if you don't meet the criteria, then use the long form. But there's no penalty for using the long form in any event.
> 
> 
> 
> To claim your daughters (or anyone) as dependents, you'll need to get them social security numbers. Not a bad idea to do this, anyhow, as having a US citizen parent, they are US citizens, whether or not they were registered with the consulate at birth. They'll eventually need US passports if they ever want to travel there - and easier to arrange all that now then to wait until they're adults.
> 
> 
> 
> Normally they'll let you off the hook with back filing for 3 years - as long as you don't show any unusual item that indicates you've been avoiding taxes somehow.
> 
> There are a bunch of online tax filing and calculation sites. Even if you can't do your filing using the site, you can fill out the information and get a feel for what numbers go where on the forms. First time is normally the toughest - it gets easier after that.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thank you for your posts - I've been trying to read most of them - as you seem to have a real handle on filing requirements.
I'm looking to proceed with "quiet disclosure" for my wife's taxes. She has lived her entire 48 years in Canada - except year one - born in the US. We were never aware that she should be filing in the US in addition to Canada - seems bizarre really - but that's government regulation.

I think I'm OK with filing the past 6 years to the IRS and the 1040, 2555 - as I'm pretty sure she won't owe any tax.

My question is the other requirement for TDF 90-22.1 - Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts - if the aggregate amount of your accounts exceeds $10,000. This form is to go to US Treasury Dept. In looking at this I would be required to list my wifes's RRSPs etc. Looking online there is this "Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program" running to August 31st. However, even in that program there are some potentially draconian penalties (5-50% of total amount) that could be assessed!

What do you advise in this situation - in terms of number of back years to file - and timing in relation to filing the back 1040s?

Thanks


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## Pathologic1

You might find it useful to look at the thread labelled "US taxes for dual citizens - consequences if too lazy to bother filing?" as it contains some information you may want.


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## Bevdeforges

Saskslam said:


> Thank you for your posts - I've been trying to read most of them - as you seem to have a real handle on filing requirements.
> I'm looking to proceed with "quiet disclosure" for my wife's taxes. She has lived her entire 48 years in Canada - except year one - born in the US. We were never aware that she should be filing in the US in addition to Canada - seems bizarre really - but that's government regulation.
> 
> I think I'm OK with filing the past 6 years to the IRS and the 1040, 2555 - as I'm pretty sure she won't owe any tax.
> 
> My question is the other requirement for TDF 90-22.1 - Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts - if the aggregate amount of your accounts exceeds $10,000. This form is to go to US Treasury Dept. In looking at this I would be required to list my wifes's RRSPs etc. Looking online there is this "Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program" running to August 31st. However, even in that program there are some potentially draconian penalties (5-50% of total amount) that could be assessed!
> 
> What do you advise in this situation - in terms of number of back years to file - and timing in relation to filing the back 1040s?
> 
> Thanks


As I mentioned in the other thread, I'd contact the IRS office at your closest US consulate and ask them about both the income tax filings and the Foreign Financial Accounts disclosures, especially in regard to the back filings they'd expect to get you back on the straight and narrow.

You should be able to pose your question more or less anonymously (by phone or by e-mail) and the IRS folks located outside the US tend to be much more helpful and sympathetic than the domestic IRS staffers.

Despite all the hype and the "threats" they really aren't looking for US citizens with undeclared retirement accounts, but actually for folks hiding "offshore" accounts in tax havens. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Pathologic1

They are also looking for those that have accounts in the US and places like Canada but are not reporting their worldwide to either jurisdiction. They report the Canadian income in Canada and US income in the USA. That is they are cheating both countries.

If you are like most Canadians and honestly reporting your worldwide income in Canada, I think you have little to fear by filing.


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## ardesjo

I'm in the same boat. I have never lived in the US, but was born there.
Now I'm trying to move there with my husband and daughter (sponsoring them) and I realized that I have file US taxes.

I downloaded form 2555 and 1040.
I filled out 2555, no problem.

Then I moved on to 1040. If I understand 2555 correctly I just have to fill out my income from there on to line 21 on the 1040 form.

I still have the same number on line 37, which is then my "adjusted gross income".
I bring that number with me until line 43, then it disappears...
I just get a bunch of zeros.
There is nothing on the 1040 about attaching form 2555, so what is the amount I owe supposed to be on the 1040?
Is there another form I have to fill out?

Please help me


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## m.hamillion

One last question to add to the confusion. I am an American who is moving back to the US after living in Canada for 26 years (moved there when I was 4). Like most of us ex-pats, I didn't know I had to file taxes in the US. When I do file the back taxes, do I include my husband who is Canadian and his earnings or do I exclude him (he does not have a social security number).

Thanks!


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## Cafreeb12

m. Hamilton you have to include any accounts your name is on whether the your husband made all the money in the account or not. Yes, you have to tell them about your Canadian husbands accounts if you have any right to those accounts at all for bill paying purposes or have a debit card. Or on any RRSP your name is on, or that you will be the future beneficiary of. Everything.


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## Vangrrl

m.hamillion said:


> One last question to add to the confusion. I am an American who is moving back to the US after living in Canada for 26 years (moved there when I was 4). Like most of us ex-pats, I didn't know I had to file taxes in the US. When I do file the back taxes, do I include my husband who is Canadian and his earnings or do I exclude him (he does not have a social security number).
> 
> Thanks!


If your husband does not have a SSN then you file your tax returns (1040's) as "single" or "married filing separately". You only report your income. Basically the same income sources you would report on your Canadian tax return. If you have an RRSP, make sure you include form 8891, which gives the account tax-deferred status.

On the FBAR disclosure forms (which are separate from tax returns), you list all accounts the you have your name on. There are 3 categories - accounts that you own singly, accounts you own jointly and then accounts over which you have signatory authority but no financial interest (basically, if you work payroll or do the books for your company - in this case you only name the account holder and don't provide any info).

In term of filing back, different people are filing back different numbers of years. My accountant suggested picking a few years that give a reasonable picture of my earnings and establish that I owe no taxes. For me that was 2007-2010. You might choose to do more/less.


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## Expatinca

Bevdeforges said:


> To claim your daughters (or anyone) as dependents, you'll need to get them social security numbers. Not a bad idea to do this, anyhow, as having a US citizen parent, they are US citizens, whether or not they were registered with the consulate at birth. They'll eventually need US passports if they ever want to travel there - and easier to arrange all that now then to wait until they're adults.


My understanding was that kids born outside the US needed both parents to be US citizens to inherit status. The only exception is if the US parent has spent a substantial amount of time living in the US in the years prior to the child's birth. 

Is that incorrect? I've been operating on the assumption that my son is safe from all this mess because he hasn't inherited by "status disease." He was born in Canada. I'm his only US parent, and I haven't lived in the US since 2003. Might the US actually consider him a citizen?

I was planning on double checking this with the consulate when I go in to renounce my own citizenship, but if someone here is able to answer now, that would be even better!


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## Peg

Expatinca said:


> My understanding was that kids born outside the US needed both parents to be US citizens to inherit status. The only exception is if the US parent has spent a substantial amount of time living in the US in the years prior to the child's birth.
> 
> Is that incorrect? I've been operating on the assumption that my son is safe from all this mess because he hasn't inherited by "status disease." He was born in Canada. I'm his only US parent, and I haven't lived in the US since 2003. Might the US actually consider him a citizen?
> 
> I was planning on double checking this with the consulate when I go in to renounce my own citizenship, but if someone here is able to answer now, that would be even better!


Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad

*Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock*
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.


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## Expatinca

Peg said:


> Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad
> 
> *Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock*
> A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.


Thank you, Peg!

Okay, first of all, what the heck is with the "genetically related" clause? Isn't that a bit discriminatory to alternative families?

But it looks like I'm safe, since I only lived in the US about three years-ish. Although my mother seems to think that my years in a Canadian university also count because of my status as a student (and therefore still technically "dependent" to my mother, who was living in the US). But I think that's a stretch. Maybe I'll bring it up with the consulate anyway and get them to give me their answer in writing.

I don't need this happening all over again to my son in ~17.5 years!


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## Peg

Expatinca said:


> Thank you, Peg!
> 
> Okay, first of all, what the heck is with the "genetically related" clause? Isn't that a bit discriminatory to alternative families?


That clause made me laugh too. 

I was ecstatic when I read about the _*two after the age of fourteen *_and was so grateful my mom us to Canada before that!


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## Bevdeforges

Expatinca said:


> My understanding was that kids born outside the US needed both parents to be US citizens to inherit status. The only exception is if the US parent has spent a substantial amount of time living in the US in the years prior to the child's birth.
> 
> Is that incorrect? I've been operating on the assumption that my son is safe from all this mess because he hasn't inherited by "status disease." He was born in Canada. I'm his only US parent, and I haven't lived in the US since 2003. Might the US actually consider him a citizen?
> 
> I was planning on double checking this with the consulate when I go in to renounce my own citizenship, but if someone here is able to answer now, that would be even better!


I see you have the details on this one. But it's really sad because I know some of the people who lobbied long and hard back int he 1970's to get the right to transmit their US nationality to their kids when living abroad (and married to non-US citizens). I always thought it was a bit dodgy, simply due to the requirement to file income taxes, but now what started out as a noble attempt to "share" US nationality with one's kids has turned into a real fiscal nightmare for some.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Expatinca

Bevdeforges said:


> I see you have the details on this one. But it's really sad because I know some of the people who lobbied long and hard back int he 1970's to get the right to transmit their US nationality to their kids when living abroad (and married to non-US citizens). I always thought it was a bit dodgy, simply due to the requirement to file income taxes, but now what started out as a noble attempt to "share" US nationality with one's kids has turned into a real fiscal nightmare for some.
> Cheers,
> Bev


It would be one thing if certain requirements being met made kids "eligible" for US citizenship, which parents could confer to them by popping down to the embassy and filing a bit of paperwork. That way, we could have a nice 'opt in' system that allows families to determine for themselves whether US citizenship is worth passing on.

Instead, we have this automatic system, combined with absurd citizenship requirements, that's just blindsiding a whole lot of people and making things very difficult for families.

There are so many ways that the US could carry on the spirit of their efforts - both in allowing US citizenship to be inherited, and in catching the tax evading baddies - without needing to quite literally destroy families (either financially, or through the stress).


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## Peg

Expatinca said:


> It would be one thing if certain requirements being met made kids "eligible" for US citizenship, which parents could confer to them by popping down to the embassy and filing a bit of paperwork. That way, we could have a nice 'opt in' system that allows families to determine for themselves whether US citizenship is worth passing on.
> 
> Instead, we have this automatic system, combined with absurd citizenship requirements, that's just blindsiding a whole lot of people and making things very difficult for families.
> 
> There are so many ways that the US could carry on the spirit of their efforts - both in allowing US citizenship to be inherited, and in catching the tax evading baddies - without needing to quite literally destroy families (either financially, or through the stress).




:clap2: Agree on everything! 

There should be an option about the citizenship for children. Have you read about the small island in the maritimes where the US hospital is closer and many have their babies there??

I love the incredulous looks I get from people when I explain my battle with the IRS...


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## Expatinca

Peg said:


> :clap2: Agree on everything!
> 
> There should be an option about the citizenship for children. Have you read about the small island in the maritimes where the US hospital is closer and many have their babies there??
> 
> I love the incredulous looks I get from people when I explain it.


Campobello? I think they're getting hit harder than anyone. The whole community may be destroyed by FATCA, and it's already starting. Many residents are afraid of crossing the US border, so they're moving away (the only year-round access to the mainland is to the US, and there are no banks or gas stations on the island, so border crossings are a daily affair).

It was already a struggling community, and these are not "caviar-swilling tax cheats" by any stretch of the imagination.

My heart goes out to them.


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## Guest

*on the subject of childrens' nationality*

Perhaps off-topic, but further to the issue of "passing on your citizenship to your kids" ...

I know of one pair of ex-American parents in Canada who came here to avoid the Vietnam war, when the mother was pregnant with their first child who might have been a boy (was a girl in fact) and they didn't want their kids eventually to be conscripted to fight in an obscene, illegal and pointless foreign war on the other side of the planet some day. But still they registered all their kids with the US embassy, in order that the kids might have their own choice when they reached age of majority. The kids of course have Canadian citizenship because they were born in a Canadian hospital.

The kids are now adults and have their own kids. NONE of them want anything to do with the US, none have lived nor worked there, none have US passports, and their Canadian passports only show Canadian places of birth so they're totally off the radar on this HIRE/FATCAT/FUBAR outrage. But technically in US eyes they're still citizens and owe the IRS returns, penalties, taxes etc. Which the IRS hasn't a hope in Hades of ever collecting from them, and thank God for that say I. 

But I pity those poor Canadians who are the flip side and were born in the US through no choice of their own but who are now being pursued by IRS storm troopers for something no sane, reasonable person would ever consider justified.

In case of potential dual nationality, the choice to affirm and keep citizenship should not belong to either State, nor to the parents either. It should be the individual's choice. None of us gets to choose our parents or our place of birth. And none of us should be subject to confiscation of 25-30% of their life savings because some tax nazis think they should be filing and paying taxes to a country they never lived in nor have the slightest allegiance or loyalty to.

Paraphrasing the immortal US cartoonist Walt Kelly, truly the United States has met the enemy, and he is them. The United States is the enemy, of its own citizenry and, in my opinion, much of the rest of the planet as well.


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