# American staying longer in the UK than 6 months



## Sven (Aug 16, 2010)

I am British, my girlfriend is American. She arrived here in May, her return flight is October.

She arrived as a tourist, visa waiver program.

She'd like to stay longer, if we take a week trip to Paris and return does this reset her 6 month clock?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Sven said:


> I am British, my girlfriend is American. She arrived here in May, her return flight is October.
> 
> She arrived as a tourist, visa waiver program.
> 
> She'd like to stay longer, if we take a week trip to Paris and return does this reset her 6 month clock?


Unlikely to work. While UK doesn't have a statutory requirement about how long you have to stay away before returning, the general rule is no more than 6 months in 12. So if she comes back after a trip to France, having spent 5 months here already, she will have a big problem convincing the immigration officer to grant her another 6-month leave, and it's quite possible she will be turned away, or given only a short leave until her flight home. Visitor's leave is single entry, and expires when she next departs from UK, and she has to be approved for a fresh leave each time she re-enters.


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## Sven (Aug 16, 2010)

Simply put she cannot stay longer than 6 months? Is there any way around this? (Besides overstaying which she isn't going to do!!)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Sven said:


> Simply put she cannot stay longer than 6 months? Is there any way around this? (Besides overstaying which she isn't going to do!!)


Not really. And she has to leave UK first to apply for any other visa, and this means back in US.

Americans are quite limited in the choice of visas. There is no working holiday visa available to them (now called youth mobility scheme) - only Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, Japanese and those from Monaco. Other options include study, but she has to show she can pay the high tuition fees and has enough money to pay for upkeep (and your offer to support her is unlikely to be acceptable, as you are not her relative). Work visa is also very difficult, as she needs a company to sponsor her and she needs to be in a sector where there are few qualified candidates. If she is or will be studying at a uni, there may be a study abroad programme in UK.

Only other possibility is marriage.


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## jval26 (Oct 20, 2011)

Hello, 

I am very interested in this topic. I will be relocating to London in January, and have considered having a family member, (mother), assist us as a nanny during our stay if my wife can find work in London as an accountant. I will sponsored a Visa from my company and my wife will obtain a spouse Visa to be eligible to work. However, I am unsure what would be the options for a Visa for my mum to care for our young children. Any suggestions? Thank you.

-J


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

jval26 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am very interested in this topic. I will be relocating to London in January, and have considered having a family member, (mother), assist us as a nanny during our stay if my wife can find work in London as an accountant. I will sponsored a Visa from my company and my wife will obtain a spouse Visa to be eligible to work. However, I am unsure what would be the options for a Visa for my mum to care for our young children. Any suggestions? Thank you.
> 
> -J


Your mother needs a work visa to work as a nanny.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

jval26 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am very interested in this topic. I will be relocating to London in January, and have considered having a family member, (mother), assist us as a nanny during our stay if my wife can find work in London as an accountant. I will sponsored a Visa from my company and my wife will obtain a spouse Visa to be eligible to work. However, I am unsure what would be the options for a Visa for my mum to care for our young children. Any suggestions? Thank you.
> 
> -J


Your wife's visa will be a Tier 2 dependent visa, not a spouse visa, but yes she will be able to work.

There is a Domestic Worker visa but one of the requirements is that the employee must have been working for you for 1 year prior to the move. 

UK Border Agency | Domestic workers

Also, to be clear, there is *no work paid or unpaid allowed on a visitor's visa.* This includes a grandmother babysitting her grandchildren, whether paid or unpaid.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> Also, to be clear, there is *no work paid or unpaid allowed on a visitor's visa.* This includes a grandmother babysitting her grandchildren, whether paid or unpaid.


Yes of course, but the gradmother can just come over on a visit for up to 6 months, not to work as a nanny but to be with the family. All she needs to do is to carry supporting evidence that she has enough money to maintain herself (or the family will support her) and she will leave at the end of her stay (no prior visa needed for Americans). No need to mention babysitting or nannying at all, as a grandma coming over to see her family is a perfectly valid reason for a visit.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Joppa said:


> No need to mention babysitting or nannying at all, as a grandma coming over to see her family is a perfectly valid reason for a visit.


With the current government doing everything they can to curtail immigration, I would not encourage "not mentioning" the real reason for your visit. It's just not a good idea to be anything other than completely honest with an Immigration Officer. In my opinion, the consequences are not worth the risk. YMMV.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> With the current government doing everything they can to curtail immigration, I would not encourage "not mentioning" the real reason for your visit. It's just not a good idea to be anything other than completely honest with an Immigration Officer. In my opinion, the consequences are not worth the risk. YMMV.


But still 1000s of family visitors are admitted to UK without an issue, unless the immigration officer suspects something fishy is going on. For example, a man aged 25 wanting to stay for 6 months to visit his brother and his family - what is he going to do for such a long time? Doesn't he have a job to return to? Or is he trying to get an illegal work in UK, or help out at his brother's business?
But a 70-year old grandmother who is retired, on good pension and has a legitimate reason to stay for 6 months to be with her family is hardly in the same category.
UKBA staff tend to profile people according to how likely they may break the immigration rules, and target those with higher risk of offending. The grandmother will just have to carry the correct documentation to back up her story. That's all.


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## jval26 (Oct 20, 2011)

Joppa said:


> But still 1000s of family visitors are admitted to UK without an issue, unless the immigration officer suspects something fishy is going on. For example, a man aged 25 wanting to stay for 6 months to visit his brother and his family - what is he going to do for such a long time? Doesn't he have a job to return to? Or is he trying to get an illegal work in UK, or help out at his brother's business?
> But a 70-year old grandmother who is retired, on good pension and has a legitimate reason to stay for 6 months to be with her family is hardly in the same category.
> UKBA staff tend to profile people according to how likely they may break the immigration rules, and target those with higher risk of offending. The grandmother will just have to carry the correct documentation to back up her story. That's all.


Thank you everyone. Great ideas. This is what i expected. My mother falls in the retired grandmother category. However 6 months probably won't suffice if my wife intends to work full time. In that case we will need a nanny for the other 6 months. It is good to know that at least temporarily i can have my mum help until we get settled or when my wife obtains work. I guess a work Visa after the first 6 months may be our only solution if we expect her to be able to stay for a few years. Now i am curious what the tax and salary implications would be if i request a visa for my mum. It seems almost immoral to expect my mom and I to pay taxes to have my mum help us with our children. Especially if she is doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I could see if she would be trying to exploit the medical insurance, but she already has private coverage from the US. Hopefully it will not be too difficult to get a visa for her. I will talk to an immigration attorney to check my options. Thanks again.

-J


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

jval26 said:


> Thank you everyone. Great ideas. This is what i expected. My mother falls in the retired grandmother category. However 6 months probably won't suffice if my wife intends to work full time. In that case we will need a nanny for the other 6 months. It is good to know that at least temporarily i can have my mum help until we get settled or when my wife obtains work. I guess a work Visa after the first 6 months may be our only solution if we expect her to be able to stay for a few years. Now i am curious what the tax and salary implications would be if i request a visa for my mum. It seems almost immoral to expect my mom and I to pay taxes to have my mum help us with our children. Especially if she is doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I could see if she would be trying to exploit the medical insurance, but she already has private coverage from the US. Hopefully it will not be too difficult to get a visa for her. I will talk to an immigration attorney to check my options. Thanks again.
> 
> -J


Again, it is not a good idea to lie to an immigration officer about your intentions and again, you can't do any work paid, unpaid or volunteer while in the UK under a visitor's visa.

The chances of your mother getting a visa are slim to none. In order to obtain a visa to legally stay and work in the country the choices are:

Spouse visa-she marries a UK citizen
Student visa-she becomes enrolled in a university and aside from taking courses she can work 20 hours per week
Tier 2 visa-she finds an employer who is a licensed sponsor (of which there are only 20,700 available/year so they will only go to highly skilled workers)
Tier 1 visa-she has a lot of money to invest in a UK business


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jval26 said:


> Thank you everyone. Great ideas. This is what i expected. My mother falls in the retired grandmother category. However 6 months probably won't suffice if my wife intends to work full time. In that case we will need a nanny for the other 6 months. It is good to know that at least temporarily i can have my mum help until we get settled or when my wife obtains work. I guess a work Visa after the first 6 months may be our only solution if we expect her to be able to stay for a few years. Now i am curious what the tax and salary implications would be if i request a visa for my mum. It seems almost immoral to expect my mom and I to pay taxes to have my mum help us with our children. Especially if she is doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I could see if she would be trying to exploit the medical insurance, but she already has private coverage from the US. Hopefully it will not be too difficult to get a visa for her. I will talk to an immigration attorney to check my options. Thanks again.


If it's your intention to retain your mother's services longer than 6 months, then a different tactic is needed, as she needs to have worked for you for a year as a domestic worker or have worked on a regular basis but not exclusively for you. So a record of 6 months as a visitor can't be followed by a work visa.

The category of domestic worker doesn't rule out a relative, but full facts have to be stated. The employment record must clearly be more than casual babysittings that any grandmother may do, but on a proper commercial basis with payments made and received. You can stress the fact that as your children are used to their grandmother, she will be an ideal person to work as nanny/mother's help in UK. While it may not be easy to be approved for this visa, I think it's worth a try. Needless to say, your mother has to be paid the same salary and given the same conditions of service as any other nanny. You complete the relevant forms as given on UKBA site under Domestic Worker.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

jval26 said:


> Thank you everyone. Great ideas. This is what i expected. My mother falls in the retired grandmother category. However 6 months probably won't suffice if my wife intends to work full time. In that case we will need a nanny for the other 6 months. It is good to know that at least temporarily i can have my mum help until we get settled or when my wife obtains work. I guess a work Visa after the first 6 months may be our only solution if we expect her to be able to stay for a few years. Now i am curious what the tax and salary implications would be if i request a visa for my mum. It seems almost immoral to expect my mom and I to pay taxes to have my mum help us with our children. Especially if she is doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I could see if she would be trying to exploit the medical insurance, but she already has private coverage from the US. Hopefully it will not be too difficult to get a visa for her. I will talk to an immigration attorney to check my options. Thanks again.
> 
> -J


I suspect that what you *really* would like to do is to have your mother visit the UK for maybe a few years (as per your note above) and live with you for child minding duties. No wages, no taxes involved. Then both you and your wife can go out to work.

There is no visa for your mother to be able to do this - period.


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## jval26 (Oct 20, 2011)

in a perfect world, yes. However, that is not my intention. I would definitley pay my mum a salary for her assistance, however being taxed on that would basically defeat the purpose. Now that I know the proper procedures, i will try to see about obtaining her a work visa. I am just unsure how likely that will be now. My kids are obviously very comfortable with their grandmother, plus there is a language issue as my mum only speaks spanish and my kids would benefit from her tutelege in spanish straight away. Anyway, it is not my intention to skirt the rules by any means. However, obviously nannies are expensive in London, (even more so for spanish speaking nannies), and as we all know and understand, times are rough and it's necessary to limit our expenses. I have an appointment with an immigration attorney next week in the US and I'll see about my options and post back if anyone is interested in the outcome. Thanks again everyone.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

jval26 said:


> in a perfect world, yes. However, that is not my intention. I would definitley pay my mum a salary for her assistance, however being taxed on that would basically defeat the purpose. Now that I know the proper procedures, i will try to see about obtaining her a work visa. I am just unsure how likely that will be now. My kids are obviously very comfortable with their grandmother, plus there is a language issue as my mum only speaks spanish and my kids would benefit from her tutelege in spanish straight away. Anyway, it is not my intention to skirt the rules by any means. However, obviously nannies are expensive in London, (even more so for spanish speaking nannies), and as we all know and understand, times are rough and it's necessary to limit our expenses. I have an appointment with an immigration attorney next week in the US and I'll see about my options and post back if anyone is interested in the outcome. Thanks again everyone.


I'd be very interested to learn how a private individual who is going to 'pay' his (non English speaking) mother to be a nanny to his children gets a work visa for her to 'work' in the UK.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Crawford said:


> I'd be very interested to learn how a private individual who is going to 'pay' his (non English speaking) mother to be a nanny to his children gets a work visa for her to 'work' in the UK.


Domestic Worker visa doesn't require applicant to speak English, as their work is restricted solely with the sponsoring family. There are many such visas issued for rich Arab and Russian families moving to UK bringing their Arabic- and Russian-speaking nannies, servants etc with them. Having a member of family working for you isn't excluded either.

I agree for most other work visas, ability to speak English is a pre-condition.


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## jval26 (Oct 20, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Domestic Worker visa doesn't require applicant to speak English, as their work is restricted solely with the sponsoring family. There are many such visas issued for rich Arab and Russian families moving to UK bringing their Arabic- and Russian-speaking nannies, servants etc with them. Having a member of family working for you isn't excluded either.
> 
> I agree for most other work visas, ability to speak English is a pre-condition.


Thank you for the clarification joppa. I will investigate the possibility of a Domestic Worker visa in my case. Sounds like it is my best option. Cheers.

-J


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

jval26 said:


> Thank you for the clarification joppa. I will investigate the possibility of a Domestic Worker visa in my case. Sounds like it is my best option. Cheers.
> 
> -J


As I mentioned earlier in the thread where I provided a link regarding the Domestic Worker visa on the UKBA website one of the requirements is that the employee has worked for you for at least 1 year immediately prior to you application. Unless this is the case and you can prove it, this visa isn't going to be an option.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> As I mentioned earlier in the thread where I provided a link regarding the Domestic Worker visa on the UKBA website one of the requirements is that the employee has worked for you for at least 1 year immediately prior to you application. Unless this is the case and you can prove it, this visa isn't going to be an option.


There is also an alternative requirement of someone who has habitually worked for the sponsoring family but not exclusively, with a special relationship being established. The wording is sufficiently vague to make it just possible that the OP may be able to pursue this approach. So if the mother has been looking after the children for a year or more but not on a full-time basis, there is a room for arguing their case. The OP is going to talk about it with an immigration lawyer who may be able to shed further light on this matter.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Domestic Worker visa doesn't require applicant to speak English, as their work is restricted solely with the sponsoring family. There are many such visas issued for rich Arab and Russian families moving to UK bringing their Arabic- and Russian-speaking nannies, servants etc with them. Having a member of family working for you isn't excluded either.
> 
> I agree for most other work visas, ability to speak English is a pre-condition.


Yes, I agree that rich Middle Eastern and Russian oligarchs do get visas for their (in the true sense of the word) servants and travel with them to the UK - much to the chagrin of some UK folk.

However, I would still think that for the 'average Joe' coming over on a work visa that the likelyhood of designating one of your parents as a domestic servant and obtaining the necessary work visa is a very long shot.


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