# Are there any genuine Egyptian men?



## AMT123

From reading this forum it is clear that there are an awful lot of Egyptian men keen to use western woman for one purpose or another. My question is, do any of you know of any Egyptian men who have genuine relationships with a western woman and have not got an ulterior motive?!


----------



## MaidenScotland

AMT123 said:


> From reading this forum it is clear that there are an awful lot of Egyptian men keen to use western woman for one purpose or another. My question is, do any of you know of any Egyptian men who have genuine relationships with a western woman and have not got an ulterior motive?!




Yes of course there are genuine men out there.
I have lots of friends who are married to Egyptian men and have had long successful marriages, however I will say they are all married to doctors or business men and not to a waiter they met on holiday. I am not saying that all waiters are just looking to exploit western women but sadly it does seem the norm... we see it time and time again.
I would think that any man you would meet through this forum offering you Arabic lessons or just wanna b ur friend is not genuine.. he is looking specifically for a western woman.. why women allow Egyptian men to treat them like pick ups is beyond me.. he wouldn't try and pick up an Egyptian woman like that her family would run him to ground... let them treat you as they would want their sister treated and see the difference!
Maiden


----------



## Sam

Yep, my boyfriend 

Although, as MS also says - he is a professional man whom I have met out here, not on holiday, and known him well over a year as a friend before getting involved.

I should say, my ex husband was also genuine, even though he was a waiter I picked up on holiday - but post divorce is a whole other story  (think that could well be a pride issue more than greed though).


----------



## AMT123

Thanks both, and yipee - there is evidence of one genuine waiter! I have met a man on holiday (not a waiter but similiar - a junior manager at the hotel) and have spent a lot of time with him on my last visit when he paid for everything and never asked for any money from me, or for me to buy him anything. In fact he was very reluctant to talk about money at all when I wanted to pay for some meals etc. He's well educated but struggled to get work in the area he is educated in (foreign affairs) and so 'ran away' to Sinai to find work. He swears he is genuine (they all do I suppose) and talks very freely about his past, and his family and is keen for me to visit his home in the delta. My gut feel tells me he is a good guy but each time I read about the charlatans it puts the frighteners on me! If only I had a crystal ball..........!


----------



## cutiepie

and mine!!!!!!!  

Seriously thou You have to trust yourself if it feels wrong it prob is.......but if it feels right and ur jut worried bout other people stories thats different!!

Every story is different some have happy endings, some dont unfortunately the don't is more common here but most shouldnt have started in the first place ...young men with old women.......keep your eyes open and blinkers off!!!

I have friends/colleagues married 10,20,30 and even 40 years (there is a huge age diff in staff   ) all are happily married with children, grandchildren etc ....


On this topic did anybody read about the Sweedish woman in Hurghada 67yrs old who was murdered a number of weeks ago by her Egyptian toyboy she had 6 orfi marriages on the go all under the age of 27 (each to their own!) but 1 of them killed her?! I read the story online it hasnt really been spoken about here more hushed off??? But it was awful despite whatever was going on nobody deserves that?!


----------



## DeadGuy

Hi there

I don't think that posting a thread asking if there's any genuine men in here would help you with your situation, not all people are the same, not in Egypt or any other country.

As both MaidenScotland and Sam did say, I think that any relationship would be a healthy one if it just kept developing in the right way, it's just like cooking a meal, people can't just take it out of the oven too early and then complain that it's not cooked yet!!


In your situation I think that you should just trust your inner feelings, and those lil emotions coming to surface every now and then in each person's mind??? Do not ignore them, just talk about it with him and see if the conversation would become real or fake, and it doesn't need a genius to tell the difference, an average human having the least human doubt will be able to tell the difference, specially when it comes to "love", and I think that will be much better for both of you, it wouldn't be fair to his part in case he is a genuine guy if you had enough doubts that you're keeping away from him would it? And that goes both ways, so if you do have enough doubts to make you start a thread like this one?? Just go straight with him, he'd give you the right answer (And of course you would know if it wasn't the right one), and it would be better then a million answers guessed by anyone.

Good luck


----------



## Sam

cutiepie said:


> and mine!!!!!!!
> 
> Seriously thou You have to trust yourself if it feels wrong it prob is.......but if it feels right and ur jut worried bout other people stories thats different!!
> 
> Every story is different some have happy endings, some dont unfortunately the don't is more common here but most shouldnt have started in the first place ...young men with old women.......keep your eyes open and blinkers off!!!
> 
> I have friends/colleagues married 10,20,30 and even 40 years (there is a huge age diff in staff   ) all are happily married with children, grandchildren etc ....
> 
> 
> On this topic did anybody read about the Sweedish woman in Hurghada 67yrs old who was murdered a number of weeks ago by her Egyptian toyboy she had 6 orfi marriages on the go all under the age of 27 (each to their own!) but 1 of them killed her?! I read the story online it hasnt really been spoken about here more hushed off??? But it was awful despite whatever was going on nobody deserves that?!




How awful - I hadn't heard that!

I am sure he will not be punished much either - I can't remember the phrase now "Glory Killing" doesn't sound right, but yeah they seem to have a way to justify this. 

The same happened here in Sharm, it was rumoured. Of course never publicized. Apparently an Egyptian guy suspected his Ukranian wife of cheating, so said there was a problem and he had to go to Cairo for a few days. He stayed in Sharm and "surprised" his friend and wife in bed together, killed them both. Not sure if it's true, sounds plausible. 


@AMT
My ex husband was a genuine guy and I know he loved me, but unfortunately I got "swept away" (you know how the story goes) and was married and pregnant before I had opened my eyes to reality. When reality struck I found a man telling me my daughter could never study at university as she couldn't leave home until she was married, and that I could never talk about religion to her unless I would preach Islam (not give her the facts and let her choose), and, and, and ... he was a genuine guy, there were other factors also, but eventually for the sake of my child more than anything I had to do what I felt was right, even if it was the hardest thing I've ever done. 
Just keep your head about you, and think of all eventualities before rushing into anything. Discuss the future, the surprise is rarely a good one.


----------



## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> How awful - I hadn't heard that!
> 
> I am sure he will not be punished much either - I can't remember the phrase now "Glory Killing" doesn't sound right, but yeah they seem to have a way to justify this.
> 
> The same happened here in Sharm, it was rumoured. Of course never publicized. Apparently an Egyptian guy suspected his Ukranian wife of cheating, so said there was a problem and he had to go to Cairo for a few days. He stayed in Sharm and "surprised" his friend and wife in bed together, killed them both. Not sure if it's true, sounds plausible.
> 
> 
> @AMT
> My ex husband was a genuine guy and I know he loved me, but unfortunately I got "swept away" (you know how the story goes) and was married and pregnant before I had opened my eyes to reality. When reality struck I found a man telling me my daughter could never study at university as she couldn't leave home until she was married, and that I could never talk about religion to her unless I would preach Islam (not give her the facts and let her choose), and, and, and ... he was a genuine guy, there were other factors also, but eventually for the sake of my child more than anything I had to do what I felt was right, even if it was the hardest thing I've ever done.
> Just keep your head about you, and think of all eventualities before rushing into anything. Discuss the future, the surprise is rarely a good one.


Hi there,

Egyptian "laws" do tolerate angry husbands killing their cheating (And sometimes they tolerate the suspected cheating ones, not just ones who got actually caught) But as an Egyptian it doesn't strike me that much, I've seen more than just that :S


As for your ex husband, sorry for saying this, but you describing him as a "genuine" guy did strike me, after the few things that you've mentioned about him I can recognize/categorize him as one of the people who are doing "this" kind of "Jihad" (Making a non Muslim become a Muslim, and reproducing to get more Muslims etc.).

I understand that he is the father of your child after all, not to mention that he is your ex husband, and I am sorry for saying what I said, but I just can't take it when such actions are described by words like "genuine" :S

Good luck, and sorry again if I was rude


----------



## MaidenScotland

Go with your feelings and see how it goes, but please remember Egyptian guys tell you that they love you very quickly (its a culture thing)
It is good that he hasn't expected you to spend any money but this often happens then you get reeled in and they work quite subtly on you after awhile it's I couldn't phone because I have lost my phone etc.. not saying your guy will do that just saying be wary.
Never tell them how much you earn.
If they ask do you have a car.. tell them it's your fathers
Plead poverty... a friend paid for you to come out etc 

In Egypt guys are supposed to pay for everything, he wouldn't take an Egyptian girl out and expect her to put her hand in her pocket.

Good luck and I hope it goes the way you want

Maiden


----------



## AMT123

Thanks to you all for your contributions. I am not one to accept my own feelings very readily - bit of a hard case really - so I let the stories I read rule my head, and my head rule my heart! On a personal level I really do think that he is a genuine chap, and the gossip it caused with his colleagues when they found out about us because he had never been known to socialise with a westerner before sorta backed up my feel that he hasn't made a habit of hitting on guests! We pretty much lived together for nearly a fortnight when visited and at no point did anything he did or said make me doubt him. That said, I have talked about the reputation of Eyptians to him before and I will again, I know he will be hurt but like you say DeadGuy, it's only fair to let him know that I am conscious of what goes on.


----------



## DeadGuy

AMT123 said:


> Thanks to you all for your contributions. I am not one to accept my own feelings very readily - bit of a hard case really - so I let the stories I read rule my head, and my head rule my heart! On a personal level I really do think that he is a genuine chap, and the gossip it caused with his colleagues when they found out about us because he had never been known to socialise with a westerner before sorta backed up my feel that he hasn't made a habit of hitting on guests! We pretty much lived together for nearly a fortnight when visited and at no point did anything he did or said make me doubt him. That said, I have talked about the reputation of Eyptians to him before and I will again, I know he will be hurt but like you say DeadGuy, it's only fair to let him know that I am conscious of what goes on.


Hope you are the person you said you are 

Many people are tough smart ones most of the time, but "love" does miracles as people say 

And trust me, it wouldn't hurt him that much if he's a genuine guy, but on the contrary, he'd be happy that you're being honest and coming clean with him.

Good luck


----------



## Sam

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Egyptian "laws" do tolerate angry husbands killing their cheating (And sometimes they tolerate the suspected cheating ones, not just ones who got actually caught) But as an Egyptian it doesn't strike me that much, I've seen more than just that :S
> 
> 
> As for your ex husband, sorry for saying this, but you describing him as a "genuine" guy did strike me, after the few things that you've mentioned about him I can recognize/categorize him as one of the people who are doing "this" kind of "Jihad" (Making a non Muslim become a Muslim, and reproducing to get more Muslims etc.).
> 
> I understand that he is the father of your child after all, not to mention that he is your ex husband, and I am sorry for saying what I said, but I just can't take it when such actions are described by words like "genuine" :S
> 
> Good luck, and sorry again if I was rude


Hey Deadguy,

You are right.

By genuine, I mean that he did love me and he didn't want me for monetary or visa purposes. But, he didn't take me with the intention of changing me, this came later. When I met him, he drank alcohol, didn't even fast during Ramadan, he sold himself has being very open minded and even until now he doesn't pray - unless his Dad is sick or something. It was after I became pregnant things changed, but it became a religious fear of how he would teach the child, which they got imprinted onto me. 

We both didn't know what we were letting ourselves in for. We both tried to change each other. He had accepted me for who I was, but after marriage/pregnant (they kind of happened simultaneously) it was the old story of "I don't mind you showing your legs/arms/body - it's what other people would think of me ALLOWING YOU to show..." you start to change out of respect, one thing becomes another thing...

Yes, he tried to change me and yes he tried to convert me, and hence why we lasted not more than two years. But, yes he was genuine, it was when fatherhood struck him that his "bad behaviour" and reality struck him, as equally as it struck me. 

And don't keep apologising, it really takes MUCH MORE than that to offend me, your opinions and advice have been valuable and 99% of the time accurate 

Sam


----------



## MaidenScotland

It's the changing bit that bothers me.
I had a maid who fell in love with guy here in Cairo, she is Fillipina and Christian and asked me for help in marrying him which I was happy to do.
It was when she started telling me that she would have to cover up when married, change her religion, not work, that I told her under no circumstances would I help her.. anyway she is in America having a ball.
I also have a friend who has been married for 35 years to a great guy.. I salsa with him as he loves to dance, he has a daughter of 23 and yet my friend tells me "he is becoming too Egyptian" in regards to his daughter.
And on another note I had an email from a friend in Scotland telling me that she and her Albanian husband have parted.. he just got up and left after 10 years.. 3 months after he got his indefinite stay... so it happens everywhere.


----------



## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> Hey Deadguy,
> 
> You are right.
> 
> By genuine, I mean that he did love me and he didn't want me for monetary or visa purposes. But, he didn't take me with the intention of changing me, this came later. When I met him, he drank alcohol, didn't even fast during Ramadan, he sold himself has being very open minded and even until now he doesn't pray - unless his Dad is sick or something. It was after I became pregnant things changed, but it became a religious fear of how he would teach the child, which they got imprinted onto me.
> 
> We both didn't know what we were letting ourselves in for. We both tried to change each other. He had accepted me for who I was, but after marriage/pregnant (they kind of happened simultaneously) it was the old story of "I don't mind you showing your legs/arms/body - it's what other people would think of me ALLOWING YOU to show..." you start to change out of respect, one thing becomes another thing...
> 
> Yes, he tried to change me and yes he tried to convert me, and hence why we lasted not more than two years. But, yes he was genuine, it was when fatherhood struck him that his "bad behaviour" and reality struck him, as equally as it struck me.
> 
> And don't keep apologising, it really takes MUCH MORE than that to offend me, your opinions and advice have been valuable and 99% of the time accurate
> 
> Sam


Hi there,

"it was the old story of "I don't mind you showing your legs/arms/body - it's what other people would think of me ALLOWING YOU to show..." you start to change out of respect, one thing becomes another thing..."

Damn Egyptians! They think God/Allah is an easier one to fool than other people!!!!!!!!

I dunno your ex in person, but those who I know and happened to be involved in "that" kind of "Jihad"???? They'd do/pretend to do ANYTHING to complete their "mission", and I think it's clear what I mean by "anything".


Part of what's done to accomplish missions is being not too obvious, looking cool, shaving beards, drinking etc, it helps saving the hassles with the (Egyptian CIA) low IQ guys in here as well


I don't need to know how much does it take to offend you or anyone else, this isn't why I'm saying anything that I say.

But 99%?? I doubt it 

Personally? I'm happy you made the right choice, not just for you, but for your child before anything/anyone else.

Good luck


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> It's the changing bit that bothers me.
> I had a maid who fell in love with guy here in Cairo, she is Fillipina and Christian and asked me for help in marrying him which I was happy to do.
> It was when she started telling me that she would have to cover up when married, change her religion, not work, that I told her under no circumstances would I help her.. anyway she is in America having a ball.
> I also have a friend who has been married for 35 years to a great guy.. I salsa with him as he loves to dance, he has a daughter of 23 and yet my friend tells me "he is becoming too Egyptian" in regards to his daughter.
> And on another note I had an email from a friend in Scotland telling me that she and her Albanian husband have parted.. he just got up and left after 10 years.. 3 months after he got his indefinite stay... so it happens everywhere.


Hi there,

It does happen everywhere, but for some reason it happens in here more than anywhere else, may be it's something got to do with the water or anything? lol

As for your friend with the Albanian creature? Think she should haunt him and get her rights from him, if she was gonna let him be in Scotland anyway, I'd make sure he gets deported if it was me


----------



## MaidenScotland

Going to put my head up over the parapet and probably get shot.

1. There is a huge social structure here,

2. Religion is drummed into people and more so poor people.. after all what have they got if 
they don't have hope.. 

3. When your poor here you are poor, no social security to help. 

4. The poor waiter who serves you on holiday could never in a million years afford a two week 
package holiday in Egypt never mind overseas, so when he sees you coming here maybe 4 
times a year then you are a millionaire, ok you had to save but at least you could..he can't.

5. You come over with all your money and money is power and he has no money therefore he
has no power so the manipulation comes in.. dress codes are suggested, religion is brought
up more and more because he is the man and your ONLY the woman. 

6 His friends ask him, who is the boss in your house why is your wife sitting there drinking beer?

7 Poor people here will never be as worldly wise or as educated as your average holidaymaker
Not their fault but that's how it is, they believe what they see on American movies.

8 Read Catherine Cookson and how our poor mothers lived with drunken bullies and then change
it into modern day Egypt.. Take out the drunk and put religion in it's place.

9 A poor man here marrying a western woman has raised his social status money wise, but in 
thinking it is easier for him to drag you down to his way of thinking than to pick himself up and
understand that your way of living has enabled him to do the things he now can.

10. Being rich doesn't make your life better it just makes your life easier.



Just my slant on it.


----------



## Beatle

AMT123 said:


> From reading this forum it is clear that there are an awful lot of Egyptian men keen to use western woman for one purpose or another. My question is, do any of you know of any Egyptian men who have genuine relationships with a western woman and have not got an ulterior motive?!


There are many genuine Egyptian guys out there - in that respect it's no different from any other country. You get the good and the bad. The tourist resorts tend to have more examples of the stereotypical Egyptian male seeking to pick up Western females and a significant number of those relationships don't seem to work out but that doesn't mean everyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I guess the main thing is to take your time: learn about the culture, what his expectations are in terms of religion, what his expectations are about the future, learn about his family and his background.

Mixed race marriages can work as I have many friends who are either in mixed race marriages or whose parents come from different backgrounds. But my view is that knowledge is key - I am Muslim but even I find certain aspects of Egyptian culture or certain religious practices difficult to come to terms with. I have many highly educated professional Egyptian male friends who have expectations of how their wives should behave and I would struggle to meet those expectations if I was married to them!

Relationships with someone from a different culture can be challenging but there are many people who have found it is worth it - enjoy getting to know him and I hope it works out for you.


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Going to put my head up over the parapet and probably get shot.
> 
> 1. There is a huge social structure here,
> 
> 2. Religion is drummed into people and more so poor people.. after all what have they got if
> they don't have hope..
> 
> 3. When your poor here you are poor, no social security to help.
> 
> 4. The poor waiter who serves you on holiday could never in a million years afford a two week
> package holiday in Egypt never mind overseas, so when he sees you coming here maybe 4
> times a year then you are a millionaire, ok you had to save but at least you could..he can't.
> 
> 5. You come over with all your money and money is power and he has no money therefore he
> has no power so the manipulation comes in.. dress codes are suggested, religion is brought
> up more and more because he is the man and your ONLY the woman.
> 
> 6 His friends ask him, who is the boss in your house why is your wife sitting there drinking beer?
> 
> 7 Poor people here will never be as worldly wise or as educated as your average holidaymaker
> Not their fault but that's how it is, they believe what they see on American movies.
> 
> 8 Read Catherine Cookson and how our poor mothers lived with drunken bullies and then change
> it into modern day Egypt.. Take out the drunk and put religion in it's place.
> 
> 9 A poor man here marrying a western woman has raised his social status money wise, but in
> thinking it is easier for him to drag you down to his way of thinking than to pick himself up and
> understand that your way of living has enabled him to do the things he now can.
> 
> 10. Being rich doesn't make your life better it just makes your life easier.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my slant on it.



This is the most brief, honest and realistic opinion I ever heard, and I totally agree with each and every point mentioned in it.

But I wanna add something, the word "marriage" is used to define 2 people who are involved in a relationship, a partnership, and here I'd like to add #11:

11: For 90% of the Egyptian males, marriage means OWNERSHIP, not partnership, at all 


No one started shooting you yet, but they will come  Just hope you get shot down nicely.


----------



## Helen Ellis

AMT123 said:


> From reading this forum it is clear that there are an awful lot of Egyptian men keen to use western woman for one purpose or another. My question is, do any of you know of any Egyptian men who have genuine relationships with a western woman and have not got an ulterior motive?!


I know and knew many genuine Egyptian men in and out of relationships with western women, mostly professional or military, usually with their own family money, but not all. All I think have had a good education though.
Some of my closest friends here have succesful long term marriages, with and without children. 
But others don't, and they have lost money and property to men they trusted because they thought they loved them, some have been and indeed are still being threatened by their husbands. Some are still living in bliss unaware they their beloved is seeing other women when they are supposed to be working.
And yes I know this happens everywhere, but we are talking about Egypt here.
I think maybe we are seen to be only negative purely because we try to impress on women that not all men are as genuine as they seem, this culture IS different, and it is easy to be fooled.


----------



## Tinytraveler

If you are a Christian considering marrying a Muslim man things you need to think about:

Know the rights you are given in Islam but realize these rights are only good if he is willing to uphold them and live by them. So if he is a alcohol drinking, sex before marriage kind of Muslim don't expect him to uphold your rights because he only knows his religion when it is convenient to him. Typically these guys when they find their religion after a child is born do not have enough knowledge of the religion and end up being a bit extreme in their understanding. They are usually too lazy to find out the truth from an educated scholar and just except what they are told from the streets which is usually cultural and not Islam. 
An example of your rights: Your money is your money and he has no rights to it and you don't have to spend one penny of it for the house (rent), food, clothes, utilities and all the needs of children. He has to pay for all of this, but you have to be willing to live with in his means. If you want more then he can afford he can tell you to buy your own Gucci hand bag. In Islam no where in the Quran is the wife required to cook & cleaner. Her job is only to raise good Muslim children. It is our nature to want to take care of things and not live in a mess so most women do it anyway. A Muslim huband can be required to provide a wife with a maid if his income affords it and the wife needs help. 

Do you have to ask for his permission to leave the house? Is he going to allow you to have unlimited access to his money? Does he have to spend on the care of his family (mother/father, putting a brother through college)? Would he be willing to put property in your name only so if he dies you are not going to have to pay his relatives their inheritance to be able to stay in your home, if you live in Egypt. Is your mother in law going to come stay with you for extended periods of time? 
Will he allow you to work after marriage? Is he going to limit what kind of job you can get?
Would he be interested in additional wives? (You can put in your marriage contract that he gives up his rights to additional wives.)
Where will you live? 
If a man wants to marry you without you meeting his family there is something really really wrong. Marriages are not to be hidden but announced very openly. When the family finds out you got married in secret you will never be seen in a good light nor your family. 

How many children? Birth control: which are exceptable? If you guys are NOT blessed with kids in the first few years of marriage does that mean divorce? If you have a girl child does he or his family believe in clitoridectomy? Just because he doesn't want it done doesn't mean if you leave you daughter with grandma for the afternoon she will not just have it done to your daughter. This is not a Muslim thing but a thing that is seen as allowable in Islam for the cultures that practice it. Most of the Muslim world does not practice it but in Egypt and other parts of Africa it is practiced. 
What is your dowry going to be? You should expect one! It can be as small as memorizing verses of the Quran (like all of the ones about women's rights) and a ring, the other end of he spectrum is a whole apartment, filled with furniture, some gold, no additional wives, airline tickets every year to visit family for you and your future kids, the right to name your kids with out his approval, it is up to you two to agree on. 

Realize that if you take an Egyptian back to GB or USA you will be teaching him everything on how to survive in that culture. Many Egyptians think the streets are paved with gold in the west and that money is so easy to come by. What they don't understand is that they will usually be forced to take jobs they will see as beneath them. Unless they are absolutely fluent in English and got a degree from a western accredited University their degree is worthless. I know of way too many foreigners that were Dr's in their country but are managers of Pizza Hut or a Taxi driver in the states after many years. 

Marriages of diffrent culture is hard enough but marriages of different cultures and religion is far worse. I don't know of one marriage between a Muslim and Christian that has worked out well. Even when the wife converted eventually. I have seen women convert because they were convinced but then when they found out that their rebel Muslim husbands were falling far short of their requirements they started to pressure them to change for the better according to the religion. In the end the marriages finished in divorce.


----------



## MensEtManus

TT summed it all up - great post!


----------



## Beatle

Tinytraveler said:


> If you are a Christian considering marrying a Muslim man things you need to think about:
> 
> I don't know of one marriage between a Muslim and Christian that has worked out well. Even when the wife converted eventually. I have seen women convert because they were convinced but then when they found out that their rebel Muslim husbands were falling far short of their requirements they started to pressure them to change for the better according to the religion. In the end the marriages finished in divorce.


 I know of one marriage - my parents! They were happily married for 26 years. And my mother didn't convert. 

Without wanting to get into a huge religious debate, as you have identified it's often the cultural interpretation of Islam that causes huge problems rather than the actual religion itself.


----------



## DeadGuy

Tinytraveler said:


> If you are a Christian considering marrying a Muslim man things you need to think about:
> 
> Know the rights you are given in Islam but realize these rights are only good if he is willing to uphold them and live by them. So if he is a alcohol drinking, sex before marriage kind of Muslim don't expect him to uphold your rights because he only knows his religion when it is convenient to him. Typically these guys when they find their religion after a child is born do not have enough knowledge of the religion and end up being a bit extreme in their understanding. They are usually too lazy to find out the truth from an educated scholar and just except what they are told from the streets which is usually cultural and not Islam.
> An example of your rights: Your money is your money and he has no rights to it and you don't have to spend one penny of it for the house (rent), food, clothes, utilities and all the needs of children. He has to pay for all of this, but you have to be willing to live with in his means. If you want more then he can afford he can tell you to buy your own Gucci hand bag. In Islam no where in the Quran is the wife required to cook & cleaner. Her job is only to raise good Muslim children. It is our nature to want to take care of things and not live in a mess so most women do it anyway. A Muslim huband can be required to provide a wife with a maid if his income affords it and the wife needs help.
> 
> Do you have to ask for his permission to leave the house? Is he going to allow you to have unlimited access to his money? Does he have to spend on the care of his family (mother/father, putting a brother through college)? Would he be willing to put property in your name only so if he dies you are not going to have to pay his relatives their inheritance to be able to stay in your home, if you live in Egypt. Is your mother in law going to come stay with you for extended periods of time?
> Will he allow you to work after marriage? Is he going to limit what kind of job you can get?
> Would he be interested in additional wives? (You can put in your marriage contract that he gives up his rights to additional wives.)
> Where will you live?
> If a man wants to marry you without you meeting his family there is something really really wrong. Marriages are not to be hidden but announced very openly. When the family finds out you got married in secret you will never be seen in a good light nor your family.
> 
> How many children? Birth control: which are exceptable? If you guys are NOT blessed with kids in the first few years of marriage does that mean divorce? If you have a girl child does he or his family believe in clitoridectomy? Just because he doesn't want it done doesn't mean if you leave you daughter with grandma for the afternoon she will not just have it done to your daughter. This is not a Muslim thing but a thing that is seen as allowable in Islam for the cultures that practice it. Most of the Muslim world does not practice it but in Egypt and other parts of Africa it is practiced.
> What is your dowry going to be? You should expect one! It can be as small as memorizing verses of the Quran (like all of the ones about women's rights) and a ring, the other end of he spectrum is a whole apartment, filled with furniture, some gold, no additional wives, airline tickets every year to visit family for you and your future kids, the right to name your kids with out his approval, it is up to you two to agree on.
> 
> Realize that if you take an Egyptian back to GB or USA you will be teaching him everything on how to survive in that culture. Many Egyptians think the streets are paved with gold in the west and that money is so easy to come by. What they don't understand is that they will usually be forced to take jobs they will see as beneath them. Unless they are absolutely fluent in English and got a degree from a western accredited University their degree is worthless. I know of way too many foreigners that were Dr's in their country but are managers of Pizza Hut or a Taxi driver in the states after many years.
> 
> Marriages of diffrent culture is hard enough but marriages of different cultures and religion is far worse. I don't know of one marriage between a Muslim and Christian that has worked out well. Even when the wife converted eventually. I have seen women convert because they were convinced but then when they found out that their rebel Muslim husbands were falling far short of their requirements they started to pressure them to change for the better according to the religion. In the end the marriages finished in divorce.



Hi there Mr/Ms,


"So if he is a alcohol drinking, sex before marriage kind of Muslim don't expect him to uphold your rights because he only knows his religion when it is convenient to him. Typically these guys when they find their religion after a child is born do not have enough knowledge of the religion and end up being a bit extreme in their understanding. They are usually too lazy to find out the truth from an educated scholar and just except what they are told from the streets which is usually cultural and not Islam."

The kind of people you've mentioned (Alcohol drinking, sex before marriage, etc., well, the kind of those people who are not doing this on purpose anyway!) would be the only kind that would be "ok" with the wife sticking with her original beliefs, other kind of people who strictly follow Islam?? They do not allow the wives to be keeping their beliefs, and as you explained why few things that happens, again, this happens cause of culture habits that are ALLOWED by religion!

The rest of the "rights" that you've mentioned, 95% of the EGYPTIAN wives don't even get close to be having those rights, so I don't really know how could a non Egyptian one would be having those "rights"!

"Birth control"! I do not know any Muslim around me believing in that, even Muslim men who were medically proven not able to have kids, they just keep trying (With OTHER "wives" of course) and they just blame the wives each and every time they try and fail!


As for those who did convert and then realized that it wasn't the right thing to do, the only thing would be protecting them is their foreign passports, cause Islam do not tolerate "Mortadd" (Mortadd is the word used for describing Muslims who chose to convert to another religion) And sometimes foreign passports don't provide enough protection and they run back home just to survive!!

I do not wanna go in religious details, but trust me, not everything you've mentioned is completely true, and I bet that not everything you think you know and haven't mentioned is true either, it is a very complicated religion and there's many "IF's" in it, and when the word "if" followed by something that's left for the person to decide??? You'll get so many reactions which made by every person according to their own perspectives, and each and everyone of them will convince you that this is the "True Islam", if you want a proof of what I am saying, try to watch any 2 different Muslim channels talking about the same topic, but of course 2 different people giving their opinions!

Good luck!

P.S. I won't even try to answer/correct any religious things that would be mentioned in the future, simply cause talking about that topic is gonna be a complete waste of time, each one will just be sticking to what's in their minds, not to mention that I might end up getting arrested for talking about that, so I'll just save myself the hassle, I suppose we're all adults and can decide if what's mentioned is a reality or a fantasy!


----------



## Tinytraveler

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there Mr/Ms,
> 
> The kind of people you've mentioned (Alcohol drinking, sex before marriage, etc., well, the kind of those people who are not doing this on purpose anyway!) would be the only kind that would be "ok" with the wife sticking with her original beliefs,
> 
> other kind of people who strictly follow Islam?? They do not allow the wives to be keeping their beliefs,
> 
> The rest of the "rights" that you've mentioned, 95% of the EGYPTIAN wives don't even get close to be having those rights, so I don't really know how could a non Egyptian one would be having those "rights"!
> 
> "Birth control"! I do not know any Muslim around me believing in that,
> 
> even Muslim men who were medically proven not able to have kids, they just keep trying (With OTHER "wives" of course) and they just blame the wives each and every time they try and fail!
> 
> it is a very complicated religion and there's many "IF's" in it, and when the word "if" followed by something that's left for the person to decide??? You'll get so many reactions which made by every person according to their own perspectives, and each and everyone of them will convince you that this is the "True Islam", if you want a proof of what I am saying, try to watch any 2 different Muslim channels talking about the same topic, but of course 2 different people giving their opinions!


The guy that drinks and has sex before marriage and is a 20something waiter most likely will not stay that way. I have seen it too many times that people change. In their 20's most live a party hardy, worry about things later lifestyle. Once they are hit with the responsiblity of another life they ponder what is important. Having a baby is life altering for most people and it is something that gets people to think twice about their life. This is why some change at that point. Now if the guy is in his 40's I would be less likely to believe he would change his ways so drastically.

In the Quran it says no one can force you to change your religion. Now are there people who try to push their beliefs on others of course but wether or not they are stict believers I will leave for others to decide.

I mentioned one right which was about money and that was it the rest of the list was talking points for the female to discuss with the cute Egyptian before they get married. So she can make an informed decision what she is getting into.

I was curious about the birth control thing and ask many because I figured it was not allowed since so many Arabs have children right away. However I was told it was a cultural thing to have a child right away. There might be a larger gap between child 1 and 2 and birth control is used at that time. However it doesn't matter what your or my opinion is on this subject.....That is something between the couple and needs to be discussed.

There are also muslim men that will stay married to the same person for many many years with out being blessed with a child. Just as there is one extreme there is the other. I have seen several Muslim couples in the states that were not blessed with children for many many years that stayed together. One couple went 12 years before having their first. We joked they prayed and asked for prayers so much they were blessed with 6 kids in the end. 

Yes Islam is a very complicated religion. There are 2 major sects Sunni and Shia then there are a dizzying number of schools of thought in each one....but even then it goes down to the scholar they go to for infomation. This is why I tried not to give opinion on most talking points I proposed , but posted everything as a question for them to discuss. 

One thing I forgot to put out there was to talk about pets if you have them. Some Muslims are ok with dog and cats...other not. Some are ok with them only if they stay outside. 

Here is a story I was told by a Muslim. Don't know where it came from though but I love it. 
A man runs to the holy prophet and says " Prophet Mohammed my wife is pregnant please tell me how to raise good Muslim children?" The prophet told the man to go home as he could not help him. The man begged "Please tell me why? Should I have come to you before she was pregnant?" The prophet replied to him "You should have thought about your children when you were choosing your bride." 

I love this because I saw too many in the west put more time and effort into choosing their career then their spouce. So for the young woman that ventures into the marriage areana I wish you the best of luck and hope you do your homework so that you are not surprised with anything after marriage.


----------



## MaidenScotland

A good post

The guy that drinks and has sex before marriage and is a 20something waiter most likely will not stay that way... this is the major problem here they marry western girls and then expect the girl to change the minute they are married, not just Muslims Christian men are the same.. they suddenly want good Egyptian wives.
The Arab/Egyptian living in the west is not subjected to his mothers neighbours aunties cat asking why his wife has not had children and therefore doesn't have that pressure on them as a couple to have babies and in the west it is acceptable not to have children if that is your wish. Contraceptives are sold quite openly here in the supermarket and chemist.
Money.. the average Egyptian waiter is lying about what he she is getting into, it is quite common here for them to tell woman that they cannot buy property in their own name, cannot
buy the car in her name and so on and so on... they also tell them that Orfi is legal... which it certainly isn't and she finds out too late after she has bought the house in his name.


Maiden


----------



## DeadGuy

Tinytraveler said:


> The guy that drinks and has sex before marriage and is a 20something waiter most likely will not stay that way. I have seen it too many times that people change. In their 20's most live a party hardy, worry about things later lifestyle. Once they are hit with the responsiblity of another life they ponder what is important. Having a baby is life altering for most people and it is something that gets people to think twice about their life. This is why some change at that point. Now if the guy is in his 40's I would be less likely to believe he would change his ways so drastically.
> 
> In the Quran it says no one can force you to change your religion. Now are there people who try to push their beliefs on others of course but wether or not they are stict believers I will leave for others to decide.
> 
> I mentioned one right which was about money and that was it the rest of the list was talking points for the female to discuss with the cute Egyptian before they get married. So she can make an informed decision what she is getting into.
> 
> I was curious about the birth control thing and ask many because I figured it was not allowed since so many Arabs have children right away. However I was told it was a cultural thing to have a child right away. There might be a larger gap between child 1 and 2 and birth control is used at that time. However it doesn't matter what your or my opinion is on this subject.....That is something between the couple and needs to be discussed.
> 
> There are also muslim men that will stay married to the same person for many many years with out being blessed with a child. Just as there is one extreme there is the other. I have seen several Muslim couples in the states that were not blessed with children for many many years that stayed together. One couple went 12 years before having their first. We joked they prayed and asked for prayers so much they were blessed with 6 kids in the end.
> 
> Yes Islam is a very complicated religion. There are 2 major sects Sunni and Shia then there are a dizzying number of schools of thought in each one....but even then it goes down to the scholar they go to for infomation. This is why I tried not to give opinion on most talking points I proposed , but posted everything as a question for them to discuss.
> 
> One thing I forgot to put out there was to talk about pets if you have them. Some Muslims are ok with dog and cats...other not. Some are ok with them only if they stay outside.
> 
> Here is a story I was told by a Muslim. Don't know where it came from though but I love it.
> A man runs to the holy prophet and says " Prophet Mohammed my wife is pregnant please tell me how to raise good Muslim children?" The prophet told the man to go home as he could not help him. The man begged "Please tell me why? Should I have come to you before she was pregnant?" The prophet replied to him "You should have thought about your children when you were choosing your bride."
> 
> I love this because I saw too many in the west put more time and effort into choosing their career then their spouce. So for the young woman that ventures into the marriage areana I wish you the best of luck and hope you do your homework so that you are not surprised with anything after marriage.



Hi there,

People change yes, it is true specially when being close to have a child, but I don't think that telling someone that they should change their beliefs is the right thing to do, I mean if the husband/wife thinks that it's not right to drink or whatever then it's his/her choice, but as long as their partners are happy with how they already are??? Then why changing them or even trying to????!!!!!!!!

As for the part where you said that Qura'an says this or that?? I won't comment it, Bible says many things just as Qura'an does, but who's really following any???

As for the birth control thing, people do use it, but not to limit the number of kids, but to limit the females' body failures, there was a time in here when too many ladies got really sick (died in many occasions too) cause their body couldn't take one pregnancy after another, so they just do it to save the wife, not to limit the number of children, and in some families when the wife just suggests that she had enough of having kids, that leads to the "I got the right to have more wives, so do it or get yourself in a competition!" attitude by the husband! In the mean while, well educated families, or at least people who are smart enough to realize how crappy the financial/economical status are in here at the moment tend to lower the number of kids in their families, but that just happens cause they wanna keep the "one big happy family" picture and they just wanna be able to afford living, but in many of those cases, they would have more kids if they had more money!

Yes there are men who would stick to the wife in spite of not having kids, but that's not the majority, and all I been talking about was how things do go with the majority, of course there are exceptions, but they're not happening that often.

The differences aren't between "Sunna" and "Shea'a" only, Sunni Muslims do disagree with each other, so do Shea'a Muslims, and by the word "differences" I mean dramatically different, not just things like which foot you should use while stepping into the toilet or anything like that, but for ESSENTIAL matters!


And the "stories" you're told by Muslims, the one you've mentioned will be considered a "Hadith" since the Prophet was mentioned to be talking in it, but let me tell you what I think, if you wanna know about Islam??? Just watch people practicing it, stories told for non Muslims are more of advertising actually, so if you wanna know what Islam/Christianity or whatever religion is?? Just watch people practicing and living by its rules!


Good luck!


----------



## Beatle

Tinytraveler said:


> The guy that drinks and has sex before marriage and is a 20something waiter most likely will not stay that way. I have seen it too many times that people change. In their 20's most live a party hardy, worry about things later lifestyle. Once they are hit with the responsiblity of another life they ponder what is important. Having a baby is life altering for most people and it is something that gets people to think twice about their life. This is why some change at that point. Now if the guy is in his 40's I would be less likely to believe he would change his ways so drastically.
> 
> In the Quran it says no one can force you to change your religion. Now are there people who try to push their beliefs on others of course but wether or not they are stict believers I will leave for others to decide.
> 
> I mentioned one right which was about money and that was it the rest of the list was talking points for the female to discuss with the cute Egyptian before they get married. So she can make an informed decision what she is getting into.
> 
> I was curious about the birth control thing and ask many because I figured it was not allowed since so many Arabs have children right away. However I was told it was a cultural thing to have a child right away. There might be a larger gap between child 1 and 2 and birth control is used at that time. However it doesn't matter what your or my opinion is on this subject.....That is something between the couple and needs to be discussed.
> 
> There are also muslim men that will stay married to the same person for many many years with out being blessed with a child. Just as there is one extreme there is the other. I have seen several Muslim couples in the states that were not blessed with children for many many years that stayed together. One couple went 12 years before having their first. We joked they prayed and asked for prayers so much they were blessed with 6 kids in the end.
> 
> Yes Islam is a very complicated religion. There are 2 major sects Sunni and Shia then there are a dizzying number of schools of thought in each one....but even then it goes down to the scholar they go to for infomation. This is why I tried not to give opinion on most talking points I proposed , but posted everything as a question for them to discuss.
> 
> One thing I forgot to put out there was to talk about pets if you have them. Some Muslims are ok with dog and cats...other not. Some are ok with them only if they stay outside.
> 
> Here is a story I was told by a Muslim. Don't know where it came from though but I love it.
> A man runs to the holy prophet and says " Prophet Mohammed my wife is pregnant please tell me how to raise good Muslim children?" The prophet told the man to go home as he could not help him. The man begged "Please tell me why? Should I have come to you before she was pregnant?" The prophet replied to him "You should have thought about your children when you were choosing your bride."
> 
> I love this because I saw too many in the west put more time and effort into choosing their career then their spouce. So for the young woman that ventures into the marriage areana I wish you the best of luck and hope you do your homework so that you are not surprised with anything after marriage.


I thought this was a really interesting post about the issues that can arise and the potential points of conflict. I liked the afterthought about animals - you are so right.

Other issues I have come across that have been problematic (you may have mentioned these) - the religion of the children and circumcision of male children.

Another issue (although less of a talking point when you meet someone!) is about inheritance. My father had some assets in the UAE when he died as he worked out there and some in the UK. My mother was not entitled to inherit any of his assets in the UAE as she is a Christian. My brother was entitled to two-thirds and my sister and I were entitled to a sixth each. Luckily we are all close to my poor mother. We had to go to court to claim the inheritance and she did get rather upset when she was asked on several occasions where my father's other wives and children were. The judge kept saying to her that he understood that she was the English wife but where were the other wives.....


----------



## Sam

Some very interesting and insightful posts.
A couple of points I would like to add:

Birth Control
I have often joked, and many agreed with me, that Egyptian women are classed into three categories, unmarried, pregnant or mothers (with the exception of infertile). Although it was just a friendly joke, it rang true. But, from my experiences, the women ask for the kids just as often if not more so than the women having motherhood forced upon them. And (again in my experience, not necessarily throughout Egypt or in the poorer classes) the couple will have as many kids as they can viably have and they will seek contraception - all Egyptian women I know tend to choose the loop or coil, something like 10 pounds in Cairo to get it fitted and ten years of protection & instantly fertile on removal. Anyway, my point is, most Egyptian girls do not even contemplate their future or possible careers as they grow up, many long only to be a housewife and to be rich in order to produce more kids.

Animals
Most Egyptians I know, regardless of religion, are genuinely terrified of animals. My ex used to tell me he wasn't scared, just disgusted by them as they're considered "dirty" (he was never particularly well informed on what was religious or cultural and seemed to just go with what suited him best and blamed it on religion). But when he jumps a mile on being surprised by a cat and runs a jumps and "protects himself" on the bed the time I brought home a kitten or can't even be in the same room as a dog, that's a phobia. The last time we were in Alex, we were leaving our apartment one day to find three teenage girls waiting for the lift... bear in mind the apartment we were in was at least 10-15 feet from where they were and our dog was on a lead (not an extendable one) and he didn't do anything, didn't bark or do anything, as we left they saw the dog and started screaming and shouting to take the monster away, it was like they were being attacked, one of them even started crying!!!! I find when we're out with the dog mostly Egyptians are intimidated. Many seem to try to act cool, but you can really tell they are not, and some will approach him to pat him, but go for his bum and not like it if his head gets close! From a religious point of view, my friend's husband, who is fine with animals had the opinion that they were fine in the house as long as there was one room in which they never entered where he could pray, and the animal should never touch him with his nose or lick him as this would make him "unpure" and he would have to wash (like after sex).

Islam is a very complicated religion, that I can agree on. My opinions on the religion, however, are best left unsaid. I have said in the past, I enjoy a good debate when the other debaters are also open to hear another point of view or opinion, but in such public forums I think it's best to just stick to the facts we see around us and let other people formulate their own opinions.


----------



## josmiler05

Excellent thread, Ive just finished reading the whole thread and my head is spinning!! Its so confusing, so many If's and but's deffinately not something to rush into!! I love reading and learning as much as I can, I also think it is important to have some sort of understanding when visiting new countries of their religion and customs.
Excellent guys.


----------



## 0Ahmed0

hello, just to let you know i knew about expactforum from about half an hour (i saw a link for it in a site showing helps to Haiti people) and when i entered it i find egyptian flag so i clicked on it to see what is going on here and then i saw that post title " Are there any genuine Egyptian men?" intersting so i entered to see what you are saying here.

I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him
first of all badguy's comments most of it are wrong and he is trying to show that muslims and islam are/is bad and he is showing right facts in a way to let you all think that muslims and islams arenot good like that part related to "jihad" who said that changing someone from his relgion to islam is jihad or that part related to number of kids and wives totally wrong!!!!

I agree with most of what "MaidenScotland" and "tinytraverls" said and my opinion is not to hear "BadGuy"'s advices and i am sure 100% he isnot muslim and he is here to say certain words for certain purposes.....
In my opinion about what you are talking about is that the problem here is that even if you find genuine egyptian you must see how the difference in cultures and relgion will affect you (as TINYTRAVELER said in his long post) in the future because there are many differences you will see not only because he is muslim but also because he is egyptian and i think it is a veeeery stupid move to marry an egyptian waiter or similar job who you meet in a holiday because 99% they are trying to get benefits from you because a waiter is a not a well educated person here in Egypt

and just things which i think you should know
alot of egyptians guys pay for everything when their girls are with them so it isnot something unique if he is paying everything for, i amnot saying he is bad but i am only saying things which you may not know.
About drinking and having sex, it isnot something accepted on our society and people go far away from someone who is doing that because he isnot a good person... for example no parents here accept to let their daughter marries to someone who drinks only (99.5% of parents do that here) so imagine how that is totally wrong in egypt
and person who is drinking or having sex or not fast in ramadan or pray isnot considered a muslim except in his personal id, and that don't mean he may stop doing these things....
last thing about the education of people in egypt, everyone in egypt goes to college because it is free, so seeing a waiter who finished his college don't mean he is well educated....

sorry for my bad english


----------



## DeadGuy

0Ahmed0 said:


> hello, just to let you know i knew about expactforum from about half an hour (i saw a link for it in a site showing helps to Haiti people) and when i entered it i find egyptian flag so i clicked on it to see what is going on here and then i saw that post title " Are there any genuine Egyptian men?" intersting so i entered to see what you are saying here.
> 
> I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him
> first of all badguy's comments most of it are wrong and he is trying to show that muslims and islam are/is bad and he is showing right facts in a way to let you all think that muslims and islams arenot good like that part related to "jihad" who said that changing someone from his relgion to islam is jihad or that part related to number of kids and wives totally wrong!!!!
> 
> I agree with most of what "MaidenScotland" and "tinytraverls" said and my opinion is not to hear "BadGuy"'s advices and i am sure 100% he isnot muslim and he is here to say certain words for certain purposes.....
> In my opinion about what you are talking about is that the problem here is that even if you find genuine egyptian you must see how the difference in cultures and relgion will affect you (as TINYTRAVELER said in his long post) in the future because there are many differences you will see not only because he is muslim but also because he is egyptian and i think it is a veeeery stupid move to marry an egyptian waiter or similar job who you meet in a holiday because 99% they are trying to get benefits from you because a waiter is a not a well educated person here in Egypt
> 
> and just things which i think you should know
> alot of egyptians guys pay for everything when their girls are with them so it isnot something unique if he is paying everything for, i amnot saying he is bad but i am only saying things which you may not know.
> About drinking and having sex, it isnot something accepted on our society and people go far away from someone who is doing that because he isnot a good person... for example no parents here accept to let their daughter marries to someone who drinks only (99.5% of parents do that here) so imagine how that is totally wrong in egypt
> and person who is drinking or having sex or not fast in ramadan or pray isnot considered a muslim except in his personal id, and that don't mean he may stop doing these things....
> last thing about the education of people in egypt, everyone in egypt goes to college because it is free, so seeing a waiter who finished his college don't mean he is well educated....
> 
> sorry for my bad english



Hi there,

First of all, I wanna admit that manipulating my nickname turning it into “BadGuy” did make me laugh, though I don’t really see any reason to do that, but that’s part of why it made me laugh anyway, the unexpected random words make me laugh  , and it gave me an idea about what kinda person you are lol

And since you said “I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him” so I will try and reply your “comments” on my own.

I’m not trying to make anyone look good or bad, I’m just stating facts, and I did say that I won’t go into religious details if you could actually read my posts, I also said that “Bible says many things just as Qura'an does, but who's really following any???” So I think I was fair, cause that’s how religion is for most people in Egypt, words printed in a book!

I also said “if you wanna know what Islam/Christianity or whatever religion is?? Just watch people practicing and living by its rules!” And I believe that this is the best way to learn about anything, people owning a car or a house always claim that they got the best car/house whenever it is mentioned, so if you wanna know more about it?? Just try the car or take a look at the house! And again, I said “Islam/Christianity or whatever religion” so again, I think I was fair enough, but if you think that there’s something wrong about learning more about religions by watching people practicing it and living by its rules then it would be up to you, and up to everyone, I just said my opinion, everyone’s free to decide how to learn about anything.

And there is a kind of “Jihad” that’s done by reproducing and converting non Muslims into Muslims, may be you don’t really know that and may be you do but you don’t wanna admit it, but either ways, “that” kind of “Jihad” is practiced by many people everywhere on earth….. You can see it so clear in UK, it’s becoming an European KSA these days for some reason! Specially Birmingham!! And why is that happening??? I’ll leave the answer to be guessed, just to make everyone decide for themselves so I don’t get accused of “giving bad images about this or that” lol

As for colleges and having the colleges’ degrees for free in here, yes, governmental colleges’ fees are almost zero in here comparing to other countries, and though the education is crap in colleges in here, but that’s not the topic; but you of all people in here should know how it works in here as you are an Egyptian yourself, but since you mentioned it, I’ll try to explain it to those who don’t know how it works.

It all depends on the marks/scores, after the primary schooling, scores decide if students will be studying in secondary schools (Like High schools in USA, well, kinda lol) or craft’s ones, and those who get qualified for secondary schools get in another score race to decide what college they’ll be in, and basically this stupid race goes for 2 months, one month of exams in each stage, stage one and two, so you can guess what would happen if someone got sick during exams!! So as you can see, not everyone gets the chance to be doctor or something as the Gentleman did try to imply.

But personally I don’t judge anyone by education, there are low lives who just got lucky with their scores or even cheated to get them (Not to mention that the educational system in here supports memorizing actually, so if you just have a good memory with a dead brain you will get high scores lol) and there are smart people who didn’t get lucky enough to study what they should’ve been studying; besides, I do not trust the educational system in here, my friends and I always made jokes about why Egyptian children aged less than 6 years old are one of the smartest children in the whole world??? But ONLY kids LESS than 6 years old!! Cause kids start going school at age 6 in Egypt 

So it’s not all about education, education is a factor yes, but it’s not what it’s all about, some people were born to be people, and some people were born to be pain in the a$$! That’s just life!!! And personally what matters for me is respect, self respect actually, don’t care if someone’s a rocket scientist or not when dealing with him/her, but respect does the entire job.


Anyway, I think I was being fair to all parts, or at least been trying to! I been stating facts not throwing accusations based on imaginary stuff, if you could see that, then so be it, but if you can’t see it then I suggest you learn a lil bit more about how life is in here, but if you’re just trying to defend yourself or others, then I’m sorry if you were offended, but you know what Egyptians say, “Elly ala raso bat-ha” lol

Thanks for the “BadGuy” thing, you did make me laugh 

Have a nice time everyone, specially you 0Ahmed0


----------



## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 
> 
> And there is a kind of “Jihad” that’s done by reproducing and converting non Muslims into Muslims, may be you don’t really know that and may be you do but you don’t wanna admit it, but either ways, “that” kind of “Jihad” is practiced by many people everywhere on earth….. You can see it so clear in UK, it’s becoming an European KSA these days for some reason! Specially Birmingham!! And why is that happening??? I’ll leave the answer to be guessed, just to make everyone decide for themselves so I don’t get accused of “giving bad images about this or that” lol


I have to admit Deadguy that I didn't agree with your interpretation of a "jihadist" when you first posted but didn't want to debate religion with you. But have you been to Birmingham?! That's a fairly strong statement to make!

I also understand the point Ahmed is making about education - when I first arrived in Egypt, I didn't understand why all the waiters told me they had university degrees as in the UK, most graduates would not end up working as waiters. I agree it's not appropriate to judge people by their level of education but equally I think it's fair to observe how the university system differs.

But I also laughed that you were called "badguy"!


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> I have to admit Deadguy that I didn't agree with your interpretation of a "jihadist" when you first posted but didn't want to debate religion with you. But have you been to Birmingham?! That's a fairly strong statement to make!
> 
> I also understand the point Ahmed is making about education - when I first arrived in Egypt, I didn't understand why all the waiters told me they had university degrees as in the UK, most graduates would not end up working as waiters. I agree it's not appropriate to judge people by their level of education but equally I think it's fair to observe how the university system differs.
> 
> But I also laughed that you were called "badguy"!



Hi there,

Answering your questions, no I haven't been to Birmingham, and I definitely don't wanna be there! But I know what I am talking about I'm afraid, it's not just a random statement, or else why would I mention Birmingham specifically???

If you're gonna try to question my credibility on my previous statement about Bham, then let me change "Birmingham" into ANY Egyptian city, cause it is happening in here, A LOT! 

But you said that you didn't agree when I first mentioned it, but now you're disagreeing, but you're just asking me if I been to Birmingham or not, not telling me if it was happening in Birmingham or not :confused2:


As for the educational system and college degrees in here, it is a really complicated topic, it's not just the degrees, also financial status of families, not all waiters having college degrees, and not all people with college degrees will work as waiters if they couldn't find other jobs.

Turning my nickname did make me laugh, but that wasn't the only thing it did, it did give me an idea about what kinda person he is, cause I've seen it many times before, people trying to "debate" others, but by insulting them, and this makes me laugh as well 


Have a nice time


----------



## karakas

*please,please be careful*

I just finished a long term relationship with an Egyptian. When I met him he was married to a woman he met in Egypt where he worked as a safari boy. They got married eventually and he came to live in UK. Started cheating on her after less then a year. When I met him he convinced me their marriage wasn't working and he was about to get a divorce, our romance ended after I realised something didn't quite add up (them living together etc, everytime I'd come over he'd take her pictures off the wall and hide them behind the sofa). 
A year passed and we worked together so I knew all that time what was happening in his life, the day he got his indefinite leave to remain stamp in his passport was the day he really left her, moved out etc blaming his marriage breakdown on her immaturity etc. He asked me out again and me being the naive **** that I am I gave him the benefit of the doubt. 
Things have moved on quickly and we started living together after about 4 months, in that time I got to know a lot of his friends, all from Egypt, all married to UK girls, all being married to them for a visa. One of his 20-something friends married a 50 year old woman, apparently he was in love with her. The thing is a man like that will never admit he got married for the wrong reasons, even my ex always used to say it was her fault the marriage didn't work out and everytime we had a fight he'd say to me: you are like typical english wife (even though Im not English). I couldn't get my head around it and eventually stopped trusting him, I found his old phone once and went through his messages, sad, horrible text messages his ex wife sent demanding answers, not knowing till the last day what had happened, demanding answers why has he left her. I have no clue whether he was ever really serious about me but as our relationship progressed he would continuously express his dislike in the fact that I was an atheist and that even "being a Christian was better then being nothing", try introduce me to Islamic readings ("A role of a woman in Islam"), he bullied me into wearing clothes I hated, I was never a girl to reveal a lot of skin but even tank tops in the summer became a problem etc. During this relationship my self esteem reached all time low 
and I found myself waiting for him at home, with a 6 course dinner cooked, exhausted from cleaning all day and he'd come home, praise me but god forbid I expressed any frustration or anger. Even me saying I was tired was a no no and would make him giving me a 2 day silent treatment. I was so exhausted and after 2 years was wondering where this gentle, loving man has gone. He eventually admitted to his family he was divorced and had a new western woman, they weren't impressed. During that time he'd mention of few occasions that we shouldn't be living together and should make things "right". He was so impressed when his friend's wife converted to Islam and looked at me as if I should be heading in the same direction. If I talked to a waiter in a restaurant he'd go in a mood screaming at me, saying that "I already said thank you, why do you even have to look at him"
It was horrid, we're not together any more and I am receiving counselling at the moment to help me recover. 
I wouldn't base my judgement purely on my relationship but it was his friendships (only with Muslims, I was the only non Muslim close to him) and his friends from Egypt that married and moved to UK and never really adapted to Western way of life that made me think if such relationship was ever gonna work without a woman giving up her identity, values and hopes it would have to been a pure miracle.


----------



## leyte6519

karakas said:


> I just finished a long term relationship with an Egyptian. When I met him he was married to a woman he met in Egypt where he worked as a safari boy. They got married eventually and he came to live in UK. Started cheating on her after less then a year. When I met him he convinced me their marriage wasn't working and he was about to get a divorce, our romance ended after I realised something didn't quite add up (them living together etc, everytime I'd come over he'd take her pictures off the wall and hide them behind the sofa).
> A year passed and we worked together so I knew all that time what was happening in his life, the day he got his indefinite leave to remain stamp in his passport was the day he really left her, moved out etc blaming his marriage breakdown on her immaturity etc. He asked me out again and me being the naive **** that I am I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
> Things have moved on quickly and we started living together after about 4 months, in that time I got to know a lot of his friends, all from Egypt, all married to UK girls, all being married to them for a visa. One of his 20-something friends married a 50 year old woman, apparently he was in love with her. The thing is a man like that will never admit he got married for the wrong reasons, even my ex always used to say it was her fault the marriage didn't work out and everytime we had a fight he'd say to me: you are like typical english wife (even though Im not English). I couldn't get my head around it and eventually stopped trusting him, I found his old phone once and went through his messages, sad, horrible text messages his ex wife sent demanding answers, not knowing till the last day what had happened, demanding answers why has he left her. I have no clue whether he was ever really serious about me but as our relationship progressed he would continuously express his dislike in the fact that I was an atheist and that even "being a Christian was better then being nothing", try introduce me to Islamic readings ("A role of a woman in Islam"), he bullied me into wearing clothes I hated, I was never a girl to reveal a lot of skin but even tank tops in the summer became a problem etc. During this relationship my self esteem reached all time low
> and I found myself waiting for him at home, with a 6 course dinner cooked, exhausted from cleaning all day and he'd come home, praise me but god forbid I expressed any frustration or anger. Even me saying I was tired was a no no and would make him giving me a 2 day silent treatment. I was so exhausted and after 2 years was wondering where this gentle, loving man has gone. He eventually admitted to his family he was divorced and had a new western woman, they weren't impressed. During that time he'd mention of few occasions that we shouldn't be living together and should make things "right". He was so impressed when his friend's wife converted to Islam and looked at me as if I should be heading in the same direction. If I talked to a waiter in a restaurant he'd go in a mood screaming at me, saying that "I already said thank you, why do you even have to look at him"
> It was horrid, we're not together any more and I am receiving counselling at the moment to help me recover.
> I wouldn't base my judgement purely on my relationship but it was his friendships (only with Muslims, I was the only non Muslim close to him) and his friends from Egypt that married and moved to UK and never really adapted to Western way of life that made me think if such relationship was ever gonna work without a woman giving up her identity, values and hopes it would have to been a pure miracle.



Wow!!! u sums up what I needed to know about Egyptian men. Anybody going with an Egyptian relationship should consider to get to know them first for a long time before marrying them. You will be alright and with the experience you went through will helps us women to reconsider and make decisions with our relationship with these Egyptian men. Time heals thank goodness.:confused2:


----------



## Sam

Hi Karakas,

I've only just seen this post.

What a horrible experience you have been through, thank you for sharing with us. I would like to congratulate you for not giving in to all of his pressures, as many girls in the same situation as you would have. And better still well done for getting out of that situation. I hope now that you are receiving counseling you are getting through this, if you ever want to chat to someone who has also got out of a relationship with an Egyptian then feel free to PM me anytime, chatting always helps, but chatting to someone who can 100% empathise is better. (you just have to make 4 more posts to enable PMs).



@leyte
You are right, of course you should get to know your partner before marrying them - this should apply for any nationality, not just a relationship with an Egyptian. The problem is that due to the "muslim ways" girls feel pressurised to take a decision of all or nothing. And when they are so in love they choose the all, and get married before they even know what they are marrying in to. If the muslim world would just accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships I think things would be much easier.


----------



## DeadGuy

Hi there,

My personal opinion about people who are married but yet they’re trying to get into a relationship is that they’re really messed up people, a married man/lady is supposed to be focusing ONLY on his/her marriage, and regardless of what were the reasons for any marriage to take place (Just cause it already happened, there’s nothing can be done about it cause it’s a too late to know why they got married or if there were ulterior motives or not), so what I think about people who are STILL married but still trying to be with someone else is that they’re sick ones! 

Personally I believe in a couple of things that should be done in an unhappily marriage:

1-Try to fix the marriage, but I mean to be really trying, not just “trying”, cause in many cases no one actually tries to fix anything, even if they do have kids!

2-If fixing it didn’t work then finish it cause it won’t be good to anyone to keep living unhappily.

3-When it’s finished, you can do whatever you wanna do or date who ever you wanna date, but before the marriage is over, no one should forget that they’re a MARRIED man/lady!

Now for those who tend to complain about how unhappy they are, a “man” cheating on his wife for a bunch of reason doesn’t make him an unhappy husband, it makes him a pig! And in the same way, a “lady” cheating on her husband for the same reason makes her a ****! Sorry for my language but that’s my personal opinion, if someone is not happy in his/her marriage then they should just figure it out and/or get it done (Whether getting it done by fixing things or getting a divorce), and for those reasons, a married man”/”lady” should never be trusted in a relationship! Simply cause what he/she’s doing with their partner could (Will actually) happen with their new partners eventually!

As for Ms karakas’s situation, I believe that you made a mistake trusting him, a “man” complaining “that” much about his “wife” (Though they were recently married, you said he started cheating on her in less then a year!!) And though he kept complaining about her and how “bad” she is! He still didn’t leave her! I wonder why is that!!!! But how can anyone with that attitude be believed? But I guess that’s what’s meant by “Love is blind” where you don’t see the other sides of anyone!

As for the part where he tried to change you! It just happens! The reasons why did that happen are complicated, but it just happens, and you said that his friends are mostly like him, actually said that one of his “friends” succeeded converting his non Muslim wife! So I think it’s just part of something that’s uglier than it sounds! Not gonna talk about it, cause I did before, and I got my deal of attacks when I did, so I'm not gonna go through it again :confused2:

I don’t think you need counseling, just think carefully about what he really is and what he did and you’ll see that he’s just not worth it!! And like what Sam said, you actually need a reward for not giving in and doing what he wanted you to do! You’re smart, you’re tough and you’re still there even after the crap he made you go through! So the way I see it??? He’s the one needing counseling, not you!


As for leyte6519, it’s really hard to know what an Egyptian is really like, but you need to know that the majority of them are sick enough to be staying away from them! That’s all I can say.


God bless the democracy and the immigration laws in some countries!

Good luck


----------



## Beatle

.



@leyte
If the muslim world would just accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships I think things would be much easier.[/QUOTE]

So the Muslim world should adopt a more Westernised approach to relationships before marriage - by that I presume you are saying that if Muslims could adopt a more western approach to dating then it would mean girlfriends would know their Muslim boyfriends better which would mean fewer problem marriages. What a good idea. Oh hang on, isn't there a high divorce rate in many Western countries - how does that happen if boyfriend/girlfriend relationships "make things easier"?

Don't get me wrong, I am not blind to the problems that occur in mixed marriages. I think TinyTraveller summed up excellently the issues that should be considered in an earlier post. And in some parts of the Muslim world (which lets face it, is a rather big and diverse community to be generalised about), the concept of "dating" is evolving. But it's rather laughable to suggest that the Western concept of "dating" has the solutions - the divorce rates in the West certainly don't reflect that.


----------



## jojo

Whatever religion or reasons for divorce, you've gotta be singing from the same song sheet for any marriage to work! I personally think that marriage is too easy!

In the west it seems to me that too much emphasis is put on sex, infatuation and love rather than friendship, compatibility and responsibility


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> So the Muslim world should adopt a more Westernised approach to relationships before marriage - by that I presume you are saying that if Muslims could adopt a more western approach to dating then it would mean girlfriends would know their Muslim boyfriends better which would mean fewer problem marriages. What a good idea. Oh hang on, isn't there a high divorce rate in many Western countries - how does that happen if boyfriend/girlfriend relationships "make things easier"?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am not blind to the problems that occur in mixed marriages. I think TinyTraveller summed up excellently the issues that should be considered in an earlier post. And in some parts of the Muslim world (which lets face it, is a rather big and diverse community to be generalised about), the concept of "dating" is evolving. But it's rather laughable to suggest that the Western concept of "dating" has the solutions - the divorce rates in the West certainly don't reflect that.


Hi there,

Have you heard of what's called a "Halal date"??? Just like the halal meat???

The way I see it? The problem is that Muslims are not willing to blend in any community, they just want everyone to be thinking the way they do, doing what they do, become what they are! In the mean while, they do change, but only when it fits them! The first time I ever heard that "Halal DATE" I almost had a heart attack from laughing so much at it! A date is a date! So why manipulating it if it is clear that it is wrong??? Or is it just cause the word "Halal" was added to it????

If someone's asking other people to "respect" their habits??? Then they should do the same! If European countries are such a horrible place to live in with their horrible hateful hater people?? Then why they keep flying there and living there??? 

When a "kafer" comes to Egypt, he/she's supposed to be dressing "ok" when he/she's here, not supposed to eat during the day in Ramadan, not supposed to do this and that, and guess what??? MANY of the tourists in here respect that! And they're only here for FEW DAYS!!! But a Muslim LIVING in Europe?? God forbid! They gotta be the center of the whole country and the whole country's supposed to respect them!! But when they like the dating thing??? They do change and they come up with the "Halal date" thing!!!!!!! I call that double standards! And it's a lil bit.........Stupid?

Good luck!


----------



## DeadGuy

jojo said:


> Whatever religion or reasons for divorce, you've gotta be singing from the same song sheet for any marriage to work! I personally think that marriage is too easy!
> 
> In the west it seems to me that too much emphasis is put on sex, infatuation and love rather than friendship, compatibility and responsibility


In the west, unmarried couples are more loyal and more honest with each other than married couples in here, and that's what makes marriages easier in there, and that's the problem in here, respect!


----------



## karakas

Thanks guys, it does make me feel better knowing I am not the only one who went trhough this. The reason why Im getting counselling is because like I said my self esteem has reached all time low and during our relationship I constantly kept asking myself what is it that I've done wrong, why is it not working out? I blamed myself, I loved (still do really) this man (or maybe who I thought he was) so much and many of the situations that arose left me feeling so confused and questioning my own judgement. He was happy for us to celebrate Christmas, with presents, cards and a christmas tree in our house, in return he expected me not to ever go and visit my close friend if her boyfriend was in the house which in his opinion was something that a "proper woman" would know not to do. And I would obey this ridiculous request for awhile, naively thinking that relationships were all about compromise. I gave up a lot of things that I used to enjoy doing in order to keep him happy and it took a bit of time for me to realise that compromise was only from my side, he was only ever happy to do something for me if it suited him (ie Xmas, he liked the idea, not the religious, but cultural part of it, it was simply a fun thing to celebrate). If we went out with friends (mostly his male friends) he'd always took me with him but I was expected to just sit there and agree with everything he said, I once made a silly joke about him and we all laughed and after coming back home there was a huge fight, how could I ever humiliate him like that in public. 
Before he met his wife, while working in Sinai he had an older girlfriend from Netherlands and he was going to move to live with her but it didn't work out in the end. That made me think that going to Europe or US was always on his agenda even though he always used to say that his life was better in Egypt and he never wanted to leave his country in a first place. But like I said before he was too proud to admit that he sank to that low level of using another human being to have a chance for better life, too proud to even admit it to himself. 
And don't think I have just decided to ignore all the warning signs when I met him. He was a fun, sucsessful, hamdsome man who would take me out for drinks, clubbing,, and complement me on how beautiful I looked in that short dress. We would get a bottle of wine on Friday night, watch a movie, made love and things were great. He seemed to be so westernised. 2 years later I found myself shopping for clothes, measuring whether the blouse I was about to buy was modest enough and always buying vests to wear underneath my tops because he'd get angry if the outline of my bra was visible. 
I found his wedding video on his laptop once, it was filmed in Egypt, his English wife wore a normal wedding dress, showing her arms and a bit of chest but pictures they took after he moved to UK to live with her showed her on nights out being completely covered. His attitude probably stayed relaxed until they properly started living together. And that's why he left because she probably never fulfilled his idea of how a woman should be. And I know she loved him, had he been more patient she'd definitely convert to Islam and live unhappily for the rest of her life, so in a way he did her a favour. 
I really thought that if people really love each other all that stuff won't matter but I've learned the hard way. Islam is not only the religion, its the way of life. And for majority of Muslims Islam is not a faith, it's a fact, undisputable, unquestionable fact. It comes with 100s of rules that need to be followed. 
The way we were raised, all our lives being told that when 2 people are in a relationship they are faithful to each other, that cheating is not acceptable - imagine a guy/girl shows up and you fall madly in love. And then they tell you that even though they love you they have to sleep with other people, you wouldn't stand for that would you, even if they were the best thing that's ever happened to you. Because that's how you were raised, that's what they thought you, it's an undisputable norm in your world.
And this is how they think about things that are trivial to us, it's rooted so deeply in their souls that you can not expect a compromise. 
That's why again I think that these relationships can work out but you need to forgive who you were before as a woman and if you decided that your new partner and life with him are worth it, then good on you.


----------



## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Have you heard of what's called a "Halal date"??? Just like the halal meat???
> 
> The way I see it? The problem is that Muslims are not willing to blend in any community, they just want everyone to be thinking the way they do, doing what they do, become what they are! In the mean while, they do change, but only when it fits them! The first time I ever heard that "Halal DATE" I almost had a heart attack from laughing so much at it! A date is a date! So why manipulating it if it is clear that it is wrong??? Or is it just cause the word "Halal" was added to it????
> 
> If someone's asking other people to "respect" their habits??? Then they should do the same! If European countries are such a horrible place to live in with their horrible hateful hater people?? Then why they keep flying there and living there???
> 
> When a "kafer" comes to Egypt, he/she's supposed to be dressing "ok" when he/she's here, not supposed to eat during the day in Ramadan, not supposed to do this and that, and guess what??? MANY of the tourists in here respect that! And they're only here for FEW DAYS!!! But a Muslim LIVING in Europe?? God forbid! They gotta be the center of the whole country and the whole country's supposed to respect them!! But when they like the dating thing??? They do change and they come up with the "Halal date" thing!!!!!!! I call that double standards! And it's a lil bit.........Stupid?
> 
> Good luck!


I don't understand what the objection is to "halal dating". Muslims get to know each other through meetings on their own before they get married but with the approval of their families. Some of the older generations obviously didn't do that. I and others in my family have been on "halal" dates (although I have only heard the term recently so I have never referred to my "dates" in that way before). I think it's a great idea. 

As for your other comments, I think they are ridiculous. If someone was on this site commenting on life in Egypt without having ever even visited the country, I would consider their comments hold no weight. But you feel that you are in a position to comment on how Muslims practise their religion and assimilate in other countries without having any experience of the same?!


----------



## DeadGuy

Ms karakas,

Compromise is something, and sacrifice is another thing that's totally different.

You said you loved him, still do according to your words, do you think he's really worth that?? A person that's in love is supposed to be accepting his/her partner the way they are, did he accept you the way you are??

You haven't done anything wrong if you want my opinion, except for trusting the wrong "man".

You lost a battle, still got a war to win, so just get ready for that lol.

Best of luck


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> I don't understand what the objection is to "halal dating". Muslims get to know each other through meetings on their own before they get married but with the approval of their families. Some of the older generations obviously didn't do that. I and others in my family have been on "halal" dates (although I have only heard the term recently so I have never referred to my "dates" in that way before). I think it's a great idea.
> 
> As for your other comments, I think they are ridiculous. If someone was on this site commenting on life in Egypt without having ever even visited the country, I would consider their comments hold no weight. But you feel that you are in a position to comment on how Muslims practise their religion and assimilate in other countries without having any experience of the same?!


Hi there Mr/Ms,

I didn't object on the "Halal" date, I was trying to show you that what Sam said (If the muslim world would just accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships I think things would be much easier) Did NOT need YOUR objection on it cause it is already happening!

As for your comments on my own, describing them by the word "ridiculous" and trying to question my credibility instead of telling me that I am wrong?? That tells a lot, specially considering that fact that you did that before when you asked me if I ever been to Bham or not instead of telling me if I was wrong or right, and sorry for saying this, but the way you're turning the conversations?? It doesn't sound like you got too much to say about it except for questioning the credibility and being rude! And I don't think there's any need to be rude, but if you think there is, then be my guest, but I'm not like that!

Good luck!


----------



## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there Mr/Ms,
> 
> I didn't object on the "Halal" date, I was trying to show you that what Sam said (If the muslim world would just accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships I think things would be much easier) Did NOT need YOUR objection on it cause it is already happening!
> 
> As for your comments on my own, describing them by the word "ridiculous" and trying to question my credibility instead of telling me that I am wrong?? That tells a lot, specially considering that fact that you did that before when you asked me if I ever been to Bham or not instead of telling me if I was wrong or right, and sorry for saying this, but the way you're turning the conversations?? It doesn't sound like you got too much to say about it except for questioning the credibility and being rude! And I don't think there's any need to be rude, but if you think there is, then be my guest, but I'm not like that!
> 
> Good luck!


There's a distinction between halal dating and being considered to be a boyfriend/girlfriend.

I don't really see why we should debate the assimilation of Muslims in Western society on a website for expats living or considering moving to Egypt. That's why I don't get into debates with you about it. Of course I have thoughts, opinions and experiences both personally and professionally. But at the same time, I think some of the comments you make about Muslims are inappropriate, sweeping statements that often don't appear to be founded on any personal knowledge or experience and I don't understand why you are posting them on this website as it has no relevance to expats seeking to live or living in Egypt. 

At the same time, it was not my intention to be rude and I equally wish you good luck.


----------



## Sam

Karakas,

So much of what you have said, actually everything, is so familiar. Enjoying your time pre-relationship, drinking etc etc. It starts with a compromise, and then you realise there is no compromise, it's only you being the forgiving one. 

Just be thankful you have got out alone, I mean childless. I still have deep concerns about the future of my daughter. I wish for her all the best in life, freedom and free thinking. And yet at 2 years old I find photos of her on my ex's facebook page of her in Cairo dressed in hijab. And she knows how to pray (well she does the moves and says Allah Akbar). She's only just turned two as well. She loves her Daddy and I could never deprive her of him or him of her, but I do worry about her future, a lot. I can't and won't tell her who she should be or what religion she should follow, she should make her own informed decision after being presented with all the facts, and I would support her in her choice, be it Muslim, Christian, Buddhist even - but I know from the father's side of the family there is no choice. It's like you say - it's not a religion, it's a way of life, and it's the only way of life - everything else is WRONG.

Can you believe she knows how to pray, but she can't count to five in Arabic?! MensEtManus's post about the religious fanaticism really sums it up - religion is no longer a choice but forced down our throats.

Okay, so with that statement I am preparing to get flamed... but that is my justified opinion.

Sam


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> There's a distinction between halal dating and being considered to be a boyfriend/girlfriend.
> 
> I don't really see why we should debate the assimilation of Muslims in Western society on a website for expats living or considering moving to Egypt. That's why I don't get into debates with you about it. Of course I have thoughts, opinions and experiences both personally and professionally. But at the same time, I think some of the comments you make about Muslims are inappropriate, sweeping statements that often don't appear to be founded on any personal knowledge or experience and I don't understand why you are posting them on this website as it has no relevance to expats seeking to live or living in Egypt.
> 
> At the same time, it was not my intention to be rude and I equally wish you good luck.



You don't need to explain the distinctions between the "Halal dating" and the boyfriend/girlfriend thing, it doesn't concern me, at all.....


As for the your "I don't really see why we should debate the assimilation of Muslims in Western society"?? Last time I checked, people who were asking those questions were ...... Westerners? Living in the "Western society" or gonna move there along with their MUSLIM partners??!! :confused2:

You're saying that's why you never get into debates with me? Who said you ever did? You just question my credibility and that's it lol

May be you think I'm a stupid person since I'm Egyptian, but I'd like to think that I'm not that stupid, or at least I'm not stupid enough to talk about things that I don't......Know enough about them???

Have a nice time


----------



## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> You don't need to explain the distinctions between the "Halal dating" and the boyfriend/girlfriend thing, it doesn't concern me, at all.....
> 
> 
> As for the your "I don't really see why we should debate the assimilation of Muslims in Western society"?? Last time I checked, people who were asking those questions were ...... Westerners? Living in the "Western society" or gonna move there along with their MUSLIM partners??!! :confused2:
> 
> 
> May be you think I'm a stupid person since I'm Egyptian, but I'd like to think that I'm not that stupid, or at least I'm not stupid enough to talk about things that I don't......Know enough about them???
> 
> Have a nice time



I don't think the questions usually concern what are the issues for westerners marrying Muslims and returning to Western countries. They usually relate to issues that arise from living in Egypt. There has been some discussions on the issues that can arise from mixed marriages which could refer to life in any country but I still think your opinions went beyond the matters being debated and weren't borne from any personal experience.

Do I think you are stupid because you are Egyptian?! My posts are usually about how we shouldn't stereotype Egyptians! So no I don't believe that Egyptians are stupid.

Anyway, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> I don't think the questions usually concern what are the issues for westerners marrying Muslims and returning to Western countries. They usually relate to issues that arise from living in Egypt. There has been some discussions on the issues that can arise from mixed marriages which could refer to life in any country but I still think your opinions went beyond the matters being debated and weren't borne from any personal experience.
> 
> Do I think you are stupid because you are Egyptian?! My posts are usually about how we shouldn't stereotype Egyptians! So no I don't believe that Egyptians are stupid.
> 
> Anyway, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.


Well,

At first, my posts “held no weight” cause I’m not a resident of a country, not cause I was wrong, just cause I didn’t live there! :confused2:

Then my posts became irrelevant though it was talking about the topic that’s being discussed! :confused2:

Then –and again, talking about my posts- they became inappropriate, sweeping statements! :confused2:

Then they became irrelevant again, and they’re born from no personal experiences, again! :confused2:

Obviously I have no choice but to agree with anything you wanna say! 

Good luck!


----------



## New Gal

I find it fascinating that people can discuss religion, economics or politics without disagreeing or being rude to one another but as soon as it comes to relationships and especially cross cultural ones, everyone gets all offended and personal.

I'm Muslim and British, young and a female. 

I was born and raised in the UK to Asian parents. 

I chose to move to Egypt just as I choose to conduct myself in a certain manner, some may call some aspects 'Islamic', to me its all about having morals.

Consider the juxtaposition of a girl who does not drink alcohol or date in the Western manner of describing a date but who can equally go out with friends, have a great time and not be fully covered at all. 

Does that make me less of a Muslim than a hijab wearing girl who sleeps around or who drinks?? Does that mean I will allow a husband to wed me and another 3??

No it doesn't.

Any person, of any faith, colour, gender or background has to find their own niche and carve it as they want. I know my religion and try to follow it daily and not in the dogmatic manner some may think but in a more spiritual manner.

I'm also English and that has also affected how I am, how I approach life and people.

I'm also female and living now in what is definitely a man's world, one in which I can't even communicate with the population in their mother tongue. Every day I am asked "where are you from", "what are you"...does that mean that I will curl up and not be me??

Hell no. I just try to live my life within my rules, religious, cultural, personal or whatever else. Its sometimes a struggle, yes, when I go to a club and am asked 50 times a night where I am from or when I can see on someones face that they believe me to be some wealthy foreigner so they can try to rip me off. I'm not generalising as I now have some amazing friends here and I thank the Man upstairs for that but its been a challenge and mostly, the other expats are the ones that have made comments that hurt or talked behind my back...surely I must have some man on the scene or surely theres more to my story....no. There really isnt.

Whether its Muslims assimilating in the West or Westerns assimilating in a Muslim country, believe me, I have never fit in but I have written on these aspects and how?? By being an individual, accepting others as they are whether I like them or not, the ones I don't like I just stay away from and those that I like I become friends with.

I've met some genuine men here but many more that are looking for money, money, money and maybe a dash of sex thrown in. Why? As far as I can tell, its the culture here to have a foreign "wife" for business purposes, shes the one putting the money up for his latest "business venture".

He loses the money, abuses the woman and breaks her....its a story which is repeated often and I really don’t want to offend anyone who has been through that at all, but being with someone from a such a diametrically different culture is difficult enough without the person having a history of ex partners etc. My background is the same as Egyptian culture and I myself wouldn’t marry someone without firstly speaking fluent Arabic and also after knowing them a hell of a long time, meeting all their family, friends etc.

Surely there should be more focus on women, helping them to be stronger, develop lives without men and being happy in them, being able to be independent and to live a full and happy life??

I joined this and other forums over a year ago when I first decided to move to Egypt and yet I only post very infrequently...why you may ask. Well firstly, I know a lot about my religion and therefore Dead Guy, sorry but you’re wrong, you can meet someone of the other gender with a view to marrying them in a halal way, of course you can. You meet in a public place, with a chaperone and you talk.

The second reason why I don’t post a lot is because I can always see the Western and Islamic perspectives. I might not agree but I understand where the point is coming from and rather than this being a plus, its usually cause for conflict. I have made a career of multicultural dialogue and I encourage it, probably because I myself am situated between two worlds, two cultures. But I am interested in why so many people believe that two worlds, Western and Islamic are unable to live together in a cohesive way. I am living proof that it can and does happen 


----------



## DeadGuy

Hi Ms. New Gal,


I’d like to thank you for your post, simply cause it was objective and constructive, not to mention that you said many things that was in my own mind, but duh, could I let it out without getting kicked lol

As for your comment for me about the “Halal date” thing, I’d like to quote you first,




New Gal said:


> ....................................................
> 
> I choose to conduct myself in a certain manner, some may call some aspects 'Islamic', to me its all about having morals.
> 
> Consider the juxtaposition of a girl who does not drink alcohol or date in the Western manner of describing a date but who can equally go out with friends, have a great time and not be fully covered at all.
> 
> Does that make me less of a Muslim than a hijab wearing girl who sleeps around or who drinks?? Does that mean I will allow a husband to wed me and another 3??
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Any person, of any faith, colour, gender or background has to find their own niche and carve it as they want. I know my religion and try to follow it daily and not in the dogmatic manner some may think but in a more spiritual manner.
> 
> ...................................


So as you said, I think it’s a manner’s issue, being in a date doesn’t mean that sex or so will be involved, and being in a “Halal” one doesn’t mean that sex will be excluded (I've mentioned sex only cause almost all the objections on the "dating" thing would come from there, many other things would get more objections, but that's what would get most of them); So my opinion was the same as yours, it all depends on what kinda person people are, and what kinda character he/she got, and that’s what made me laugh so much when I heard it, it was just a name, but it was justified and introduced in a way that claims that it's much more than that.

I’d like to thank you again for your post, and wish you a real pleasant time in here and everywhere.


Have a nice time


----------



## New Gal

Thanks DG,

I thought you would be the first to respond but thought you wouldn't like my post lol


----------



## DeadGuy

New Gal said:


> Thanks DG,
> 
> I thought you would be the first to respond but thought you wouldn't like my post lol


You haven't said anything wrong, so why wouldn't I like your post? 

Good luck


----------



## New Gal

DeadGuy said:


> You haven't said anything wrong, so why wouldn't I like your post?
> 
> Good luck


Well I know I wasn't wrong, but some of your posts (well almost all) display your dislike....

Anyway.....


----------



## MensEtManus

completely off-topic..... 

@New Gal: You picked up on the western view, the muslim view, and not sure if picking up on the coptic view/vibe. Then I guess you have yourself one wonderful cocktail of views  

I think you might enjoy reading up on Mona Eltahawy (Mona Eltahawy Blog) - you sound just like her. A muslim gal that doesn't want to be defined by what she wears on her head or how she acts in life. She considers religion not a thing to show-off, but a something to practice between oneself and their deity.


----------



## New Gal

MensEtManus said:


> completely off-topic.....
> 
> @New Gal: You picked up on the western view, the muslim view, and not sure if picking up on the coptic view/vibe. Then I guess you have yourself one wonderful cocktail of views
> 
> I think you might enjoy reading up on Mona Eltahawy (Mona Eltahawy Blog) - you sound just like her. A muslim gal that doesn't want to be defined by what she wears on her head or how she acts in life. She considers religion not a thing to show-off, but a something to practice between oneself and their deity.


Thanks MensEtManus, I will take a look at that.

I have unfortunately had some bad experiences from on-line forums, people don't like it when you defy the myth and its usually always British/Western women that hate my posts...but hey thats their opinion as I have mine also.


----------



## DeadGuy

New Gal said:


> Well I know I wasn't wrong, but some of your posts (well almost all) display your dislike....
> 
> Anyway.....


Let me finish your sentence lol


( but some of your posts (well almost all) display your dislike.... ) Islam???

If that's what you meant then I'd hate to disappoint you, I'm not a hater, well, I am, but I hate stupidity and shallowness (Of ANY religion), not all "Christians" are my friends, but in the mean while not cause someone doesn't share my beliefs means he/she goes to my hate list (As long as they're thinking the same of course)

I do have Muslim friends, and I'd never trade them for anyone else, but in here? It is a very hard thing to find a normal person who's thinking objectively, and sorry for saying this, but if you were an Egyptian Muslim and happened to be heard saying ANYTHING of what you said in your original post?? I won't tell you what would happen to you AND your family, but you can guess, I had to stop contacting some of my Muslim friends just to stop the hassle they been through and the accusations thrown on them cause of being a friend with a Christian, which would lead to a much more dangerous stuff other than the "looks" and "accusations", but what can I say about it?? As you said, we should just TRY to live our lives.......

Anyway, sorry if I sound that hateful, and sorry if I disappointed you with this post, cause I did disappoint you by agreeing with your first post lol

Good luck


----------



## New Gal

DeadGuy said:


> Let me finish your sentence lol
> 
> 
> ( but some of your posts (well almost all) display your dislike.... ) Islam???
> 
> If that's what you meant then I'd hate to disappoint you, I'm not a hater, well, I am, but I hate stupidity and shallowness (Of ANY religion), not all "Christians" are my friends, but in the mean while not cause someone doesn't share my beliefs means he/she goes to my hate list (As long as they're thinking the same of course)
> 
> I do have Muslim friends, and I'd never trade them for anyone else, but in here? It is a very hard thing to find a normal person who's thinking objectively, and sorry for saying this, but if you were an Egyptian Muslim and happened to be heard saying ANYTHING of what you said in your original post?? I won't tell you what would happen to you AND your family, but you can guess, I had to stop contacting some of my Muslim friends just to stop the hassle they been through and the accusations thrown on them cause of being a friend with a Christian, which would lead to a much more dangerous stuff other than the "looks" and "accusations", but what can I say about it?? As you said, we should just TRY to live our lives.......
> 
> Anyway, sorry if I sound that hateful, and sorry if I disappointed you with this post, cause I did disappoint you by agreeing with your first post lol
> 
> Good luck


Not just Islam, you seem to dislike most things relating to your identity, your Egyptian nationality, being male etc etc.

I have few Muslim friends myself DG and its mostly cos of the lack of education, morality and informed opinions. But then again, you find that in people of other faiths, backgrounds and communities also. Islam itself isn't at fault, its followers need to help themselves also.

But I also don't like "educated Westerners" attempting to define Islam and most importantly its followers without any working knowledge: its ignorance again rearing its ugly head.

I don't know what religion you are or anything but I think the first thing that really comes through your posts (of which I have read many and wanted to reply but have refrained) is your real disdain towards Egypt and Egyptians and that is somewhat sad.

Any country in the world has issues and problems but to turn that inwards is not good at all, its very damaging. Anyone, anywhere can forge an identity for themselves, educate themselves, work and provide for themselves and their families, it just takes more in some countries than in others.

Watch 1947 Earth, read about partition in India and the far reaching consequences of it, issues some of us are still living with today and realise that its the same the world over. The only difference is how we each CHOSE to live with the past.


----------



## DeadGuy

Well, I don't like the current "Egypt" that much, the real problem about here isn't how many problems "we" got, but it's about denying that there's any kind of problems......

Things here are pretty mixed up, and not the natural mix that would lead to somewhere, but everything in here is TOO mixed with other things, education is mixed with politics, politics mixed with religion, religion is mixed with culture, I can keep going for days, but what's the point? 

India changed, just like any other country that did, cause people in there wanted to do something, and that's what makes me sad about it, we got troubles, but what's anyone in here doing to solve it? The majority of people are in a need for money, but instead of looking for jobs they find ways to rip it off, instead of making what they want, they just steal it from someone who made it.................And those who are willing to do anything, they're either not allowed to do it, or they just got sick and tired of trying, and I don't blame them for that 

Good luck


----------



## New Gal

You mention India but take a look at Pakistan or Bangladesh, those countries have a similar mix of issues / problems.

The only reason Egypt has so many people i.e. locals attemtping to rip off foreigners is because of the tourism, if even half as many people went to Pakistan, for sure the world would hear the same "relationship" stories, its only cos no-one actually goes there that it doesnt happen!


----------



## DeadGuy

New Gal said:


> You mention India but take a look at Pakistan or Bangladesh, those countries have a similar mix of issues / problems.
> 
> The only reason Egypt has so many people i.e. locals attemtping to rip off foreigners is because of the tourism, if even half as many people went to Pakistan, for sure the world would hear the same "relationship" stories, its only cos no-one actually goes there that it doesnt happen!


True, but people will never stop coming here, and it's their right to come here and get a decent behavior from the "locals", and that was happening in a not so far past, but it stopped some how


----------



## New Gal

DeadGuy said:


> True, but people will never stop coming here, and it's their right to come here and get a decent behavior from the "locals", and that was happening in a not so far past, but it stopped some how


That would imply that these tourists are acting in a decent manner themselves in order to expect decency from the locals...does that happen??

I've been here as a tourist many times, I've never been treated without respect, thats why I moved here. Of course men show an interest, does that mean I act all stupid and fall for the first one? Hell no, I didn't do that in England, why would I do that here??

And I'm sorry if I offend anyone but as I have said, my cultural background is COMPLETELY THE SAME as Egyptian culture including the religion...but I would never get into any long term thing with someone who I don't even share the same language as. Why?? How do you know that this "wonderful man" is being so wonderful talking about you in his language to his mates?? Especially when he has met you in a club or on the beach or in a hotel where you are dressed in a way that makes him think you are loose?

You might not be, but he doesn't know that does he?? Hes met you in a bikini or a short skirt or a low dress. I would never tell someone who to dress but the truth is, its not accepted here.

I myself have been with a group of people, mixed backgrounds and there was a "couple" present, he was Egyptian, she was English and he was smiling at her and SWEARING AT HER IN EGYPTIAN TO HER FACE!!!

Consider this...I am Muslim, I don't have boyfriends, I go out to clubs with girls and wear a knee length dress. I will NEVER be accepted by a traditional man as a decent girl until he meets me on more than one occassion in the presence of others and talks to me. Sometimes he wont even accept me then.

So what....I am who I am, I don't need people like that in my life so I just ignore and I keep my self-respect.

It would only be a problem if I couldn't live without a bloke  to which end I can safely say, I love my life and being single and men, especially if you are going to do this whole cross cultural thing seems like one BIG migraine.


----------



## Leonie

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes of course there are genuine men out there.
> I have lots of friends who are married to Egyptian men and have had long successful marriages, however I will say they are all married to doctors or business men and not to a waiter they met on holiday. I am not saying that all waiters are just looking to exploit western women but sadly it does seem the norm... we see it time and time again.
> I would think that any man you would meet through this forum offering you Arabic lessons or just wanna b ur friend is not genuine.. he is looking specifically for a western woman.. why women allow Egyptian men to treat them like pick ups is beyond me.. he wouldn't try and pick up an Egyptian woman like that her family would run him to ground... let them treat you as they would want their sister treated and see the difference!
> Maiden


Yes, that's all very well ... tho' doesn't take into account the fact that, unless one goes about with an aggressive manner, speaking to no-one at all, many Egyptians (men and women alike) are drawn to us, simply because we're different (in my case, fair-skinned, blonde and English-looking!) some even treat us as if we're celebrities. Some of the attention however is gross:men parading up and down the street, just yards from where you may be sitting enjoying the sunshine and having a coffee with your nose in a book (we don't choose to be alone - making new friends happens gradually); young men following you, despite being firmly ignored, asking for 'just one minute' of your time, some even daring to grab at you inappropriately (how dare they?!). I've spoken to women more than twenty years younger than me and they, like me, are extremely careful not to wear clothes that could be seen as 'provocative', but then, compared to the semi and fully-veiled dress of most Egyptian women, just about any Western-style garb could feasibly be regarded as such and, given the reputation Western women have for being 'easy', many men think we're all fair game! It is a minefield out there, and even men one meets whose behaviour/ treatment is very 'correct' wouldn't turn down an opportunity for a sexual encounter if there was the remotest possibility of one. 

Anyway, after being sexually assaulted by a young punk at least thirty years my junior last weekend (I was walking from beach to chalet wearing a long muslin shirt over my bikini), I am now even more careful about what I wear to the extent that sometimes it's just easier to stay in and not go out at all - surely a sad indictment of this 'cover up' society ...

Angelina


----------



## AMT123

When I posted my question I didn't realise what a debate it would start! It's all been very interesting to read though.

But after the first few posts I was content that I should progress things slowly with my Egyptian guy, following my gut feel. Now having read the latter posts I am totally depressed! 

IF our relationship moves on then I would not consider moving to Egypt because I have elderly parents here in the UK so it would mean him moving to the UK. From what I have read on here that seems to be the better option anyway as fewer of the cultural/religious issues appear to be a problem that way. Also, we would have to find a way for him to be over here without us being married (I woudn't marry anyone until I have lived with them for a good long while) so I guess he would have to come as a mature student initially. 

Anyway, as I have only spent time with him in Egypt so far, we are currently trying to arrange for him to visit me in England for a 2 week holiday this summer (he's paying for the flight by the way) so that I can see how he reacts to actually being in the West (it's very different being somewhere rather than just seeing it on the tv) and for hiim to see how he feels about it.

If anyone has taken this route with their Egyptian partner I would welcome any tips you have, practical or emotional.

Thanks.


----------



## ASAMY

It is really embarrassing to hear those bad stories about Egyptians but I assure you all, Egyptians are not all the same. But In general, we like tourists and we are curious to know their cultures and traditions. When I do that, I feel that I am adding lives to my own life. I lived in the Netherlands for a while and now I am living in the USA and I am learning new things everyday. Although I am 25 years old but I feel that I am 50 years old with all the experience that I have acquired in the past few years.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Asamy... of course they are not all the same but if you are a western tourist here then generally the men that chase you are after more than a dance at the disco.

Maiden


----------



## fragile heart

*No, unfortunately, I don't believe so anymore...*

Here's my story... a nice young man turns into a coldblood narcisist..
I had a holiday in sharm el sheikh last January with my 3-year old son. All we were looking for was sun, beach, dolphin shows and ice cream. Also I thought I would be very safe from all sorts of gigolos, since I had a small child with me all the time. I met on our first day there, because we went out on the sea to snorkle on one of those diving boats and he was working there as a dive master. (he works for Bright Shark diving center at the beach of Royal Albatros Hotel in Nabq, Sharm el sheikh).
He was playing with my son there all day and offered to show us how to get to Naama Bay that night, because he was going there to do something else. When we were in Naama, he started to woo me very insistingly saying he fell in love with me as soon as he saw me. He seemed so very sincere and we had a lovely week together taking my son to different places. When i returned home, he called me everyday, repeating how much he loved me and needed me and how I have to come back to him, because he couldn’t live without me. 
Where I come from you don't do things like that unless you really want to get to know someone, so I had no doubts in my mind, but thought, if he keeps calling me all the time just to hear my voice, he must really love me or at least be infactuated with me.
I couldn’t resist him very long and went back to sharm to see him in February for two weeks. To be able to stay in the same flat, we had to get married on paper (orfi). After the first day he started to behave extremely distant and after that he was basically running away from me. He had lied to me on the phone that he would have a holiday for those two weeks, but was working every day for about 12 hours. That he blamed on his brother, who was his boss and according to him “had denied his holiday a day before I came, because he was jealous”. I ended up being alone the whole time and he has admitted now on the phone that it was a bet between him and his friend: whether he can make me come back or not. He’s also admitted he never loved me and was saying it just to make me return to him (to win his bet). Well, I think it’s a bit obvious that those two weeks with him there were very akward, but he doesn’t let go now. Still two months later now, he keeps calling, saying that even though he didn’t love me before (when I came back to get to know him better and form some kind of a relationship with him) now he does and wants me to come back AGAIN so that he could “fix” everything!! Obviously I’m not going anywhere and I have stated to him in SMS, email and on the phone several times that I don’t want to hear from him ever again and I have blocked his continuous facebook friend requests, but last weekend for example he called 9 times!! What on earth does he want from me and how can I make him stop. I hate his guts, but now he thinks that because he told me “the truth” everything is fine!!!????!!!!
I’ve now come to realize that he’d lied to me about everything: his age, birthday (he conveniently had one when I was there in January, but it’s actually in September), having no previous girlfriends, etc. Basically EVERYTHING you told someone when you get to know them…


----------



## DeadGuy

Hi Ms fragile heart,

I'm sorry about your bad experience, but glad you shared it, hopefully it would help someone one day.

About how to make him "stop", you can't actually make him stop, one thing about Egyptians is that they do NOT take "no" as an answer, bet you've seen that already, if not from this idiot then it would be from guys selling stuff in shops, they just keep trying!

My suggestion is just to ignore him as you did, and when he calls you?? Answer the calls but don't say anything, don't even listen to his blah blah blah, at least you'd cost him the money making his stupid calls!

Congrats for escaping early enough from his trap, some people take longer time to realize that they should just leave!

Have a nice time


----------



## MaidenScotland

Hi and welcome.

Simple... you must see it is him on your mobile.. dont answer or answer and walk away and let him waste his money... don't read his messages... it wont last long as he will soon have another "victim" in his sights if he hasn't already
Egyptian men say I love you within hours of meeting you... it means nothing they are empty word..


----------



## nikkiebaby

well, I knew it's late for me to ask! but still need some good suggestions!
Well, pretty much the same as the above stories, i went to Egypt in May for a 4-days business trip. I met this guy on the exhibition, I thought he must be employee from one of the exhibitors so he should be almost the same age as me, but the truth is he is a student, only helping his teacher. Well, anyway, i think age is not too much a problem as i look very young of myself. 
it's nothing special at the beginning as i came back into my hotel, i felt lonely and bored so i chose one of the numbers i got that day and called him.  well, it's only for fun from the beginning maybe still is. because i never belive "love someone from the first sight" or "long distance love". Well, we just met and have some talks , drinks that day. But the next day, i invited him to come to my hotel room, and he said it's not allowed in his country. Well, this taboo thing kinda made me excited. So i insist , and he finally made it . ok, so i won't tell you the details  of that night. Anyway, i will tell you some, so you will help me to judge it. everything went all right from the start , we talk , flirt, touches ecah other. and he seems normal , told me that" he has 5-6 girlfriends elder than him, and he is a bad boy  " 

well, only recently after i came back did i find out what's the problem is: he said he need to save his virginity for his marriage!!!! virginity? oral sex doesn't count? 

Well, my problems are : I have a lot of problems!!!! it seems he is becoming more and more important in my life , more than i tought. I need to understand why i have such feelings for him, does this right? should we continue?

i was very conscious at the beginning it's only a fling or ONS, but after i came back he sms me and sms back, and we always chat on line, and i call him sometimes. it seems we are more than just friends now. And i was plannning to see him in July. it seems it is normal long distance love and have chance to become real or even into marriage someday! I know the chances is very small, but it seems it still could happen. but now, i heared that" he need to save his virginity for his marriage!" OMG, i just realize how different we are! !!!

so my questions are :

1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
2. does someone have oral sex with others could be regarded as virgin?
3. if an Egyptian , who will save his virginity for his marriage , will marry a none-virgin?
4. what he really think of me to have radom sex with others? 
5. does it really worth it if he only use fingers when i go to Egypt again? 
6. anyway, he told me the truth, so does this make him a genuine man?
7. is there any possibilty he is only for fun?
8. if i take it serious and love him, could we make it out?

I really need your opoinions!!!! it will be very important for me, as i can't stop thinking of him all day, i can't even work!!! I don't know why, becuase I love him??? because he is young??? because he is virgin???? because we didn't finish that night???? becuase i'm lonely???? I need to stop this and make a decision!!!

Some situations you should know to help me with judgement:

1. his family seems weathy, he went to some bi-language school , as i'm not a native English Speaker, I thought his English is better than me, so i trust him on this 
And now his family have moved to Sweden, but he has to finish his study here. And he is student but he has a car. he is 22. cute!

2. me, i'm 28, but i look really young, and i'm beautiful . my family don't have much money, and China is surely not USA. But i'm starting a company of my own with my own money! And i have confident that my company will be a huge success, at least help me to meet the average earning level from Britain or any other western countries. by the way, i 'm like most other Chinese people, I don't have a religion. and I'm not a virgin , of course, and he knows it!!!Right now, i really need to focuse on my new company rather than thinking of him all day!!!! 

So please help me sort things out!!!! Does this will make out or not! I need to make a decision now!!!


----------



## nikkiebaby

well, hope my post won't be deleted, and i'm not interested in religion or culture, just give me some practical suggestions . better from someone who knows Egyptian well, or Egyptians!


----------



## nikkiebaby

please please!i'm waiting!


----------



## MaidenScotland

nikkiebaby said:


> please please!i'm waiting!




Ok here is my suggestion... forget him and find yourself a nice boy local to your home


----------



## nikkiebaby

MaidenScotland said:


> Ok here is my suggestion... forget him and find yourself a nice boy local to your home


this is it!!! i don't mind harsh word! just make me wake up! this is just not good enough for me right now! and by the way, i just broke up with local boy! well, disappointed too! well, anyway, could you at least answer my question!


----------



## MaidenScotland

1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
A= He is supposed to be a virgin on his wedding night and I would think it is only common if he can't find someone to have sex with.. after all he is a man!

2. does someone have oral sex with others could be regarded as virgin?
A= Technically yes

3. if an Egyptian , who will save his virginity for his marriage , will marry a none-virgin?
A= I doubt it, even if he tells you he is a virgin I wouldn't believe it.

4. what he really think of me to have radom sex with others? u
A= He thinks that you are a ****.

5. does it really worth it if he only use fingers when i go to Egypt again? 
A= If you are just looking for sex surely you can get it closer to home

6. anyway, he told me the truth, so does this make him a genuine man?
A= How do you know he told you the truth?

7. is there any possibilty he is only for fun?
A= I would say it is 99.9% certain he is out for fun and quick sexual gratification

8. if i take it serious and love him, could we make it out?
A= No.. you have already stated that you are quite free and easy sexually.. in the remote chance he was genuine and you become a couple he would make your life hell.. you would have no freedom and I mean NONE he would bring up your sexual past in every argument and ask himself why he didn't marry a good Egyptian girl.


----------



## armandnio

niki forgot him couse he was lieing in egypt there is no rule for mans virginity


----------



## mardini

0Ahmed0 said:


> hello, just to let you know i knew about expactforum from about half an hour (i saw a link for it in a site showing helps to Haiti people) and when i entered it i find egyptian flag so i clicked on it to see what is going on here and then i saw that post title " Are there any genuine Egyptian men?" intersting so i entered to see what you are saying here.
> 
> I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him
> first of all badguy's comments most of it are wrong and he is trying to show that muslims and islam are/is bad and he is showing right facts in a way to let you all think that muslims and islams arenot good like that part related to "jihad" who said that changing someone from his relgion to islam is jihad or that part related to number of kids and wives totally wrong!!!!
> 
> I agree with most of what "MaidenScotland" and "tinytraverls" said and my opinion is not to hear "BadGuy"'s advices and i am sure 100% he isnot muslim and he is here to say certain words for certain purposes.....
> In my opinion about what you are talking about is that the problem here is that even if you find genuine egyptian you must see how the difference in cultures and relgion will affect you (as TINYTRAVELER said in his long post) in the future because there are many differences you will see not only because he is muslim but also because he is egyptian and i think it is a veeeery stupid move to marry an egyptian waiter or similar job who you meet in a holiday because 99% they are trying to get benefits from you because a waiter is a not a well educated person here in Egypt
> 
> and just things which i think you should know
> alot of egyptians guys pay for everything when their girls are with them so it isnot something unique if he is paying everything for, i amnot saying he is bad but i am only saying things which you may not know.
> About drinking and having sex, it isnot something accepted on our society and people go far away from someone who is doing that because he isnot a good person... for example no parents here accept to let their daughter marries to someone who drinks only (99.5% of parents do that here) so imagine how that is totally wrong in egypt
> and person who is drinking or having sex or not fast in ramadan or pray isnot considered a muslim except in his personal id, and that don't mean he may stop doing these things....
> last thing about the education of people in egypt, everyone in egypt goes to college because it is free, so seeing a waiter who finished his college don't mean he is well educated....
> 
> sorry for my bad english


Dear Ahmed,

I liked your post, it seemed pretty fair and I am glad an Egyptian voice spoke loud, this forum - hopefully - is about making friends. I have also read some posts in which certain participants were consistently perpetuating a negative image about Egypt as a whole. As an expat; I find Egypt very welcoming and a real fun place to be, and it is true: Every one of us view and judge the world through the eyes and logic of his own personality.

Cheers,

Top of the Day....

Ibrahim


----------



## Egyuk

nikkiebaby said:


> well, hope my post won't be deleted, and i'm not interested in religion or culture, just give me some practical suggestions . better from someone who knows Egyptian well, or Egyptians!


Hi

Probably one of the most straight forward posts Nikkie in this thread inspite it's length.

A short answer: forget about him if you are after a long lasting relationship. And if you're after a short fling, a local guy close to where you are, as MS said, is a lot easier.

No one will talk to you into religion and culture, but believe me these are the two issues that will make the success of a long lasting relation possible. From what I read you don't meet in a common point, and probably will never do, if you want to build on success of the relation. The short moments of assumed pleasure you had in the hotel, and the reasoning behind it -or better say no reasoning- is something and the issues involved for success of marriage is something totally different. As lust is totally different from love!

I am sure you'll soon forget about him and in your busy career driven future you'll meet many others. Your choice then to carry on looking for the casual affair or the long lasting relation.

All the best..


----------



## nikkiebaby

MaidenScotland said:


> 1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
> A= He is supposed to be a virgin on his wedding night and I would think it is only common if he can't find someone to have sex with.. after all he is a man!
> 
> 2. does someone have oral sex with others could be regarded as virgin?
> A= Technically yes
> 
> 3. if an Egyptian , who will save his virginity for his marriage , will marry a none-virgin?
> A= I doubt it, even if he tells you he is a virgin I wouldn't believe it.
> 
> 4. what he really think of me to have radom sex with others? u
> A= He thinks that you are a ****.
> 
> 5. does it really worth it if he only use fingers when i go to Egypt again?
> A= If you are just looking for sex surely you can get it closer to home
> 
> 6. anyway, he told me the truth, so does this make him a genuine man?
> A= How do you know he told you the truth?
> 
> 7. is there any possibilty he is only for fun?
> A= I would say it is 99.9% certain he is out for fun and quick sexual gratification
> 
> 8. if i take it serious and love him, could we make it out?
> A= No.. you have already stated that you are quite free and easy sexually.. in the remote chance he was genuine and you become a couple he would make your life hell.. you would have no freedom and I mean NONE he would bring up your sexual past in every argument and ask himself why he didn't marry a good Egyptian girl.



well, it's really harsh! if he is not virgin and i'm so available, why he just did it with me? !!! it's really a humiliation! i don't have any attraction to man anymore?

And why he drive me around the last day for me to do some shopping and then drive me to airport? he didn't get any advantage by doing it? And u know the time difference is huge between us, why he stay up to 3-4 o'clock in the morning just to chat with me on line? Sorry, i'm still into it!

or maybe he is too young and naive to believe the religion rumors?!!! becuase he said" he is afraid if he has premarital sex, bad things will happen to him" !!!???


----------



## nikkiebaby

armandnio said:


> niki forgot him couse he was lieing in egypt there is no rule for mans virginity


are you sure because you are not an Egyptian.


----------



## nikkiebaby

Egyuk said:


> Hi
> 
> Probably one of the most straight forward posts Nikkie in this thread inspite it's length.
> 
> A short answer: forget about him if you are after a long lasting relationship. And if you're after a short fling, a local guy close to where you are, as MS said, is a lot easier.
> 
> No one will talk to you into religion and culture, but believe me these are the two issues that will make the success of a long lasting relation possible. From what I read you don't meet in a common point, and probably will never do, if you want to build on success of the relation. The short moments of assumed pleasure you had in the hotel, and the reasoning behind it -or better say no reasoning- is something and the issues involved for success of marriage is something totally different. As lust is totally different from love!
> 
> I am sure you'll soon forget about him and in your busy career driven future you'll meet many others. Your choice then to carry on looking for the casual affair or the long lasting relation.
> 
> All the best..


thanks! but it will take a while for me to forget the whole situation, because the timing, becuase the circumstances, because the feeling or because the virgin surperise! Anyway, i will move on and concentrate on my business for sure! this will be the first priority for me in a few years now! Thanks anyway! 

OMG! man who wants to save virginity for marriage really shouldn't come out and flirt with people!  this is bad sin too!


----------



## Egyuk

OMG! man who wants to save virginity for marriage really shouldn't come out and flirt with people!  this is bad sin too![/QUOTE]

You're welcome

Good for you to move on. Totally agree it is a sin too!! A sexual flirt, oral or... whatever, doesn't make him a virgin!! Doesn't need to be all the way sex. 

Again all the best.

Just out of curiousity what is your business about?


----------



## nikkiebaby

Egyuk said:


> OMG! man who wants to save virginity for marriage really shouldn't come out and flirt with people!  this is bad sin too!


You're welcome

Good for you to move on. Totally agree it is a sin too!! A sexual flirt, oral or... whatever, doesn't make him a virgin!! Doesn't need to be all the way sex. 

Again all the best.

Just out of curiousity what is your business about?[/QUOTE]

what choice do i have rather than move on! i maybe emotional and casual but i'm not stupid  !

well, my business is about international trade and cosmetics, something like that!


----------



## mardini

nikkiebaby said:


> You're welcome
> 
> A sexual flirt, oral or... whatever, doesn't make him a virgin!! Doesn't need to be all the way sex.


Dear Nikkiebaby,

Virginity is a state of mind and not a physical condition.

Ibrahim


----------



## nikkiebaby

ialhabbal said:


> Dear Nikkiebaby,
> 
> Virginity is a state of mind and not a physical condition.
> 
> Ibrahim


is this your opinion or general opinion in Egypt or from religious doctrines?


----------



## mardini

nikkiebaby said:


> is this your opinion or general opinion in Egypt or from religious doctrines?


It is my personal belief, and it is in the heart of the Islamic religion. Social behavior deviated widely from core religion teachings.

Top of the Day....

Ibrahim


----------



## nikkiebaby

ialhabbal said:


> It is my personal belief, and it is in the heart of the Islamic religion. Social behavior deviated widely from core religion teachings.
> 
> Top of the Day....
> 
> Ibrahim


ah, i c , i also heared that Islamic religion is very scientific in the heart! like you said, social behavior deviates. I will try to understand but not to respect ! 
Anyway, thank you for your share!


----------



## mardini

nikkiebaby said:


> I will try to understand but not to respect!


Nikkiebaby, I don't ask you to understand or respect, I always say: every one sees and judges the world through the eyes and logic of his/her own personality. Pretty much, it is what you are how you think...

Top of the Day...

Ibrahim


----------



## nikkiebaby

ialhabbal said:


> Nikkiebaby, I don't ask you to understand or respect, I always say: every one sees and judges the world through the eyes and logic of his/her own personality. Pretty much, it is what you are how you think...
> 
> Top of the Day...
> 
> Ibrahim


well, i understand, and totally agree with you! but I think i can understand why he would do this considering the religion and the society he has bought up. 
If i grew up in that enviroment, maybe i will be worse!  who knows! so i just try to understand why this is happening. but that doesn't mean i will respect his deed and do as he did. just that!


----------



## DeadGuy

Hello Ms nikkiebaby,

First of all, I've read your post AFTER Maiden had edited it and I can see it was edited because "No need for the graphic details", But still, wanna tell you that you should've saved the details :lol:.

Anyway, I won't answer many of your questions cause you got all the answers already, you just keep going in circles!

In your first post, you said you called him "for fun", you said that you thought it was a One night stand and said many other things that shows that it's not a serious thing at all! So why do you keep fooling yourself and making it a big deal??!!!

But regarding your questions about males' virginity in Egypt and so, you're starting your own business, so I'll assume that you're a smart person, and you already answered it and said you think it's a sin! So what you think???!!!! A "virgin" finding it "ok" to be making out with complete strangers....... why does he sound more of a male whore for me than a "virgin" who's "saving" it to someone else??!!! Or you really think he's "saving" anything???!!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

The feelings that you're having don't seem to be having anything to do with "loving" him or whatever, my personal explanation for your situation is that thinking about what you can not have causing you to have a hormonal changes that leads you to be wanting to be with him again! Not for marriage, but just to get laid!!! (Sorry for the expression! But that's what I think considering your words describing how you feeling!!), and to be honest with you??? Think ALL this crap will go away if you just had one "spicy" night with him!! So just slow your hormones a bit would you?!!!

So my suggestions??? GET REAL!! You do not love him, he doesn't have any feelings for you, he was just trying to be "cool" making out with strangers, and so were you!! So next time you feel starting to think randomly again?? Just go have a cold shower!!

Good luck with your career!


----------



## mardini

nikkiebaby said:


> well, i understand, and totally agree with you! but I think i can understand why he would do this considering the religion and the society he has bought up.
> If i grew up in that enviroment, maybe i will be worse!  who knows! so i just try to understand why this is happening. but that doesn't mean i will respect his deed and do as he did. just that!


Absolutely....

Good luck..

Top of the Day...

Ibrahim


----------



## nikkiebaby

DeadGuy said:


> Hello Ms nikkiebaby,
> 
> First of all, I've read your post AFTER Maiden had edited it and I can see it was edited because "No need for the graphic details", But still, wanna tell you that you should've saved the details :lol:.
> 
> Anyway, I won't answer many of your questions cause you got all the answers already, you just keep going in circles!
> 
> In your first post, you said you called him "for fun", you said that you thought it was a One night stand and said many other things that shows that it's not a serious thing at all! So why do you keep fooling yourself and making it a big deal??!!!
> 
> But regarding your questions about males' virginity in Egypt and so, you're starting your own business, so I'll assume that you're a smart person, and you already answered it and said you think it's a sin! So what you think???!!!! A "virgin" finding it "ok" to be making out with complete strangers....... why does he sound more of a male whore for me than a "virgin" who's "saving" it to someone else??!!! Or you really think he's "saving" anything???!!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!
> 
> The feelings that you're having don't seem to be having anything to do with "loving" him or whatever, my personal explanation for your situation is that thinking about what you can not have causing you to have a hormonal changes that leads you to be wanting to be with him again! Not for marriage, but just to get laid!!! (Sorry for the expression! But that's what I think considering your words describing how you feeling!!), and to be honest with you??? Think ALL this crap will go away if you just had one "spicy" night with him!! So just slow your hormones a bit would you?!!!
> 
> So my suggestions??? GET REAL!! You do not love him, he doesn't have any feelings for you, he was just trying to be "cool" making out with strangers, and so were you!! So next time you feel starting to think randomly again?? Just go have a cold shower!!
> 
> Good luck with your career!


 ah, deadguy, u finally come! are you sure you are an Egyptian ? yeah, you are properly telling the truth which i'm reluctant to admit! the simple truth ,why this bother me so much , is " i can't have it" ! the idea -that you will never have it , is eating my heart and make me nervous all the time like poison! 

well, i properly will go to your country again, but not only for him, i can still meet him if i want fun, but i think i love your country! the weather, the view, the people, especially the girls  ( i have already made a lot of friends there! no reason for me to give them up!) And i'm also interested in your religion too! the only religion in China now, i think it's "Money"!!! 

And just one thing to remind you, i don't need to go have a cold shower next time when my hormone went wrong! I just need to go out and have fun!


----------



## DeadGuy

nikkiebaby said:


> ah, deadguy, u finally come! are you sure you are an Egyptian ? yeah, you are properly telling the truth which i'm reluctant to admit! the simple truth ,why this bother me so much , is " i can't have it" ! the idea -that you will never have it , is eating my heart and make me nervous all the time like poison!
> 
> well, i properly will go to your country again, but not only for him, i can still meet him if i want fun, but i think i love your country! the weather, the view, the people, especially the girls  ( i have already made a lot of friends there! no reason for me to give them up!) And i'm also interested in your religion too! the only religion in China now, i think it's "Money"!!!
> 
> And just one thing to remind you, i don't need to go have a cold shower next time when my hormone went wrong! I just need to go out and have fun!


Well, I'm afraid that I am an Egyptian (UNFORTUNATELY)!!!!!!

But just a comment on your statement (And i'm also interested in your religion too! the only religion in China now, i think it's "Money"!!! )............ I'm not a Muslim if that's what you mean, Egypt do have religions other than Islam........


And your "reminder" to me, you can do whatever you wanna do, you're a free person, but just don't choose to fool yourself and make big deals out of nothing, a one night stand will always be....... a one night stand! 

Good luck


----------



## mardini

0Ahmed0 said:


> I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him
> 
> first of all badguy's comments most of it are wrong and he is trying to show that muslims and islam are/is bad and he is showing right facts in a way to let you all think that muslims and islams arenot good like that part related to "jihad" who said that changing someone from his relgion to islam is jihad or that part related to number of kids and wives totally wrong!!!!


Who is "badguy"? Any way, I am confident that the rest of forum participants know enough about Islam and Arabs by now and don't believe the implicit attempts you say made by this "badguy".

Stay bright...

Top of the Day...

Ibrahim


----------



## GM1

badguy is Ahmeds' version of DeadGuy.


----------



## mardini

GM1 said:


> badguy is Ahmeds' version of DeadGuy.



Aha, I see.. well, DeadGuy made a reasonable contribution in this thread which I don't find offensive and I am a Muslim. But Ahmed need to know:

1- DeadGuy is not a Muslim by his statement.
2- DeadGuy doesn't want to be an Egyptian by the nature of his contributions.
3- DeadGuy is free to decides by definition of being a free human.

Of course I personally always like to see the positive side of everything and don't necessarily agree with everything DeadGuy or anyone else writes, but this is what the forum is about, exchanging points of views. 

When the sun rose this morning declaring a new day, I woke up and was alive and healthy, people I know were the same, this repeated with me for 40+ years, I am content, I believe everything else compare low. Every negative aspect of life can be looked at in a positive way, be it in Egypt or any where else.

If I am not mistaken, DeadGuy appears to be frustrated but I know he is smart and eager for change, he'll eventually get there.

I believe Ahmed wanted to assure us that many people are sincere (due to the content of this thread), including Muslims.

Hope all are comfortable with this..

Top of the Day...

Ibrahim


----------



## ASAMY

ialhabbal said:


> Aha, I see.. well, DeadGuy made a reasonable contribution in this thread which I don't find offensive and I am a Muslim. But Ahmed need to know:
> 
> 1- DeadGuy is not a Muslim by his statement.
> 2- DeadGuy doesn't want to be an Egyptian by the nature of his contributions.
> 3- DeadGuy is free to decides by definition of being a free human.
> 
> Of course I personally always like to see the positive side of everything and don't necessarily agree with everything DeadGuy or anyone else writes, but this is what the forum is about, exchanging points of views.
> 
> When the sun rose this morning declaring a new day, I woke up and was alive and healthy, people I know were the same, this repeated with me for 40+ years, I am content, I believe everything else compare low. Every negative aspect of life can be looked at in a positive way, be it in Egypt or any where else.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, DeadGuy appears to be frustrated but I know he is smart and eager for change, he'll eventually get there.
> 
> I believe Ahmed wanted to assure us that many people are sincere (due to the content of this thread), including Muslims.
> 
> Hope all are comfortable with this..
> 
> Top of the Day...
> 
> Ibrahim


Thanks for this post

I wanted to say something like that for a long time

Egyptians are generally sincere and these embarrassing examples here are just exceptions

I am proud to be Egyptian (FORTUNATELY)


and as an Egyptian, I advise you nikkiebaby to get rid of this boy and never talk to him again.


----------



## ASAMY

MaidenScotland said:


> 1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
> A= He is supposed to be a virgin on his wedding night and I would think it is only common if he can't find someone to have sex with.. after all he is a man!
> 
> In Egypt we are generally virgin till wedding
> and it is not because we do not find someone to have sex with!!!!!!!
> it is because our religion forbids that
> 
> I am here in US and I never touched a girl either here or in Egypt
> and I lived in the Netherlands for 1 year and it was the same
> 
> and I am sure you know how it is easy to do that at least in the Netherlands
> 
> I do not agree with this sentence
> I am sorry


----------



## MaidenScotland

ASAMY said:


> MaidenScotland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
> A= He is supposed to be a virgin on his wedding night and I would think it is only common if he can't find someone to have sex with.. after all he is a man!
> 
> In Egypt we are generally virgin till wedding
> and it is not because we do not find someone to have sex with!!!!!!!
> it is because our religion forbids that
> 
> I am here in US and I never touched a girl either here or in Egypt
> and I lived in the Netherlands for 1 year and it was the same
> 
> and I am sure you know how it is easy to do that at least in the Netherlands
> 
> I do not agree with this sentence
> I am sorry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't be sorry for disagreeing that is your right and belief
> as for me.... I stand by my statement.
Click to expand...


----------



## DeadGuy

Hmmmmmm

Love it when someone feels wanna shoot my a$$ for my opinions instead of trying to prove me wrong or at least correct me, makes me laugh like hell, so they better keep trying, at least I'd die laughing :lol: :lol: :lol:

And love it more when the topics get magically drifted to the "Religion" thing :lol:

But Jeeeeeeez! What I love the most??? The immigration laws in some countries :lol: (No offense for any expat  )

God bless the democracy


----------



## DeadGuy

Hi there,

Will keep your original answers Maiden, but I'd like to give the answers that would be given by 90% of the Egyptian "males" (Hate to call them men, they're just male creatures :lol


My answers will be in *BOLD*


MaidenScotland said:


> 1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
> A= He is supposed to be a virgin on his wedding night and I would think it is only common if he can't find someone to have sex with.. after all he is a man!
> 
> *It is common since the only way to have sex without paying too much money or getting caught, and it satisfies them more than porns (Not in all cases, some people are ADDICTS to this sh!t :lol Ask Google if I was right or wrong :lol:*
> 
> 2. does someone have oral sex with others could be regarded as virgin?
> A= Technically yes
> *
> A virgin is someone who's everyone else around him/her believes that he/she is, even if he/she is NOT a virgin.*
> 
> 
> 3. if an Egyptian , who will save his virginity for his marriage , will marry a none-virgin?
> A= I doubt it, even if he tells you he is a virgin I wouldn't believe it.
> 
> *He/she would for the right price *
> 
> 4. what he really think of me to have radom sex with others? u
> A= He thinks that you are a ****.
> 
> *Don't mean to be rude, but they'd think that you're a perfect way to have an orgasm :s
> *
> 
> 5. does it really worth it if he only use fingers when i go to Egypt again?
> A= If you are just looking for sex surely you can get it closer to home
> *
> No comment :lol:*
> 
> 6. anyway, he told me the truth, so does this make him a genuine man?
> A= How do you know he told you the truth?
> *
> The kind of people who are like "that" guy tend to act like fishermen, they just throw their net and whatever they get will be ok, my point: Stories are told hoping to "hook" them up, weather it worked or not, it happens with each and every "she" they meet.*
> 
> 
> 7. is there any possibilty he is only for fun?
> A= I would say it is 99.9% certain he is out for fun and quick sexual gratification
> 
> *No, no possibilities, it is a fact, he went to your room 2 days after he first saw you, he was even sick enough to play the "hard to get" and pretended that it wasn't allowed in here and actually made you insist, not to mention his other "friends" that he's been a "bad boy" with!!
> *
> 
> 8. if i take it serious and love him, could we make it out?
> A= No.. you have already stated that you are quite free and easy sexually.. in the remote chance he was genuine and you become a couple he would make your life hell.. you would have no freedom and I mean NONE he would bring up your sexual past in every argument and ask himself why he didn't marry a good Egyptian girl.
> 
> *Absolutely, but again, if you paid the right price.*


Holy crap! I feel sick just talking like this! :spit:


----------



## ASAMY

I would like to answer the questions my own version (no offense)



nikkiebaby said:


> 1. is it common in Egypt for man to save his virginity for marriage?
> 
> Yes, it is common if that Egyptian person is religious(either muslim or coptic christian) unless this person was married before or something
> 
> We are not animals following our instincts without control
> 
> 
> other than that he is not a good person and you should avoid him
> 
> 
> 2. does someone have oral sex with others could be regarded as virgin?
> 
> Touching a foreign women (which exclude wife, mother, sister or aunts) is forbidden. so what do you think sex will be?
> 
> 
> 3. if an Egyptian , who will save his virginity for his marriage , will marry a none-virgin?
> 
> it happens only in case that he will marry a non Egyptian (or a divorced woman)
> and she promises that she will not cheat on him and just be a loyal wife
> 
> 
> 4. what he really think of me to have radom sex with others?
> 
> it depends on his attitude. If he is bad he will think the same as Deadguy stated above or Maidenscotland.
> if he is a good person, he will totally avoid you (no offense)
> 
> 5. does it really worth it if he only use fingers when i go to Egypt again?
> 
> Sorry, this fingers part is out of my understanding scope
> 
> 6. anyway, he told me the truth, so does this make him a genuine man?
> 
> no, not at all. This is a sign that you run away. He knew girls before you and he will know lots of them after you
> 
> 7. is there any possibilty he is only for fun?
> 
> yes, he is for fun
> 
> 8. if i take it serious and love him, could we make it out?
> 
> I believe you will hate the day you were born to see that guy


----------



## countess

Just to add to the genuine ones - i met my husband here and 18 years later we are still together. He is the most honest person I have ever met and would trust him with my life. We met in Luxor but we managed to get him to the UK where we lived for 12 years before returning here to live. 

But ... I would stress that it has not always been easy. There are many differences in our culture and still there are times when this causes problems - admittedly not as much as it did in the early days. 

From my experience I would say I have been one of the very lucky ones as I have got tired of hearing about the disasters that happen here. I can't help but feel that sometimes women leave their brain on the runway before boarding the plane and seem to behave here in ways they would not dream of doing back home. For example - would you really give a guy that you met in a pub in the Uk only 4 weeks ago £15000????? To anyone considering a cross-cultural relationship - be very careful who you get involved with, make sure you understand as much as possible about the culture here and about Islam and remember, this is not the UK. and finally, what I say to most friends involved with Egyptians (moslem) if they don't pray they don't fear their God, if they don't fear their God there is little to prevent them behaving badly .. therefore, be very careful!


----------



## MaidenScotland

Hi Countess,

That is lovely to hear and I wish you many more years of happiness.
I have friends who have been married to men here for 30 years plus and all happily but no money changed hands.
Sorry I have to disagree about the praying part... I know lots of praying bad uns.


----------



## ASAMY

MaidenScotland said:


> Hi Countess,
> 
> That is lovely to hear and I wish you many more years of happiness.
> I have friends who have been married to men here for 30 years plus and all happily but no money changed hands.
> Sorry I have to disagree about the praying part... I know lots of praying bad uns.


Actually I totally agree with MaidenScotland that praying does not show anything

Some people are praying just to show that they are faithful but when you deal with them, you can find them the worst in terms of behavior.

so, I can say that praying is a part of a good person but a person is just a whole package

In addition to the matters of worship like praying or fasting, his religion should include good manners, ethics, culture, tolerance to other cultures and races...etc.

to countess, you are just one of the lucky ones who happen to marry decent(genuine) Egyptians

Cultural differences will always be an issue even in the same country, but when couples understand each other, they can smoothly pass through these differences. As we say in Egypt "The most important thing is that the ship of marriage sails"


----------



## nikkiebaby

countess said:


> Just to add to the genuine ones - i met my husband here and 18 years later we are still together. He is the most honest person I have ever met and would trust him with my life. We met in Luxor but we managed to get him to the UK where we lived for 12 years before returning here to live.
> 
> But ... I would stress that it has not always been easy. There are many differences in our culture and still there are times when this causes problems - admittedly not as much as it did in the early days.
> 
> From my experience I would say I have been one of the very lucky ones as I have got tired of hearing about the disasters that happen here. I can't help but feel that sometimes women leave their brain on the runway before boarding the plane and seem to behave here in ways they would not dream of doing back home. For example - would you really give a guy that you met in a pub in the Uk only 4 weeks ago £15000????? To anyone considering a cross-cultural relationship - be very careful who you get involved with, make sure you understand as much as possible about the culture here and about Islam and remember, this is not the UK. and finally, what I say to most friends involved with Egyptians (moslem) if they don't pray they don't fear their God, if they don't fear their God there is little to prevent them behaving badly .. therefore, be very careful!


Hi Countess, some questions for you! And it will be great if you could give me the answers:
1. does he make you transform to Muslim?
2. do you have children? what they believe?
3. does he bring back your past ? I consume he is a good Egyptian,which means a virgin, and you are a normal woman, so not virgin.
4. do you keep your own life style as before marriage? do you wear short skirt? do you go to bars? 
5. so he never cheated on you,and you never cheated on him? Or it happened, but you two figured a way out?

Well, really hope you can answer my questions! Thanks in advance!


----------



## smashholidays

Sure there are


----------



## Sofia Cooper

I have to agree with Smashholidays....sure there are genuine Egyptian men !!! 
Even though i have only been on holiday to Egypt i think that men in general have this stereotypical label , not just Egyptian men . 
Take the Italian Romeo who is supposed to sleep with 100's of woman , and supposed to be the best lovers in world,......or Turkish men who pray on woman , they fall in love with them and when the woman is back in her own country the Turkish man starts demanding money to be sent ,etc ... and so on 
I feel from what i have heard and seen , alot of woman only have themselves to blame when they come to Egypt ....i have seen it with my own eyes, the way they are all over the Egyptain men giving mixed signals to them ....So the heading of this thread shoudnt be "Are there any genuine Egyptian men?" ........it should be "Is any man genuine?" .......and of course the are , !!!!... 
So when i eventually move to Egypt i will not be asking myself this question i iwill live and learn ..i will most certainly not stereotype Egytian men as non genuine


----------



## smashholidays

Sofia Cooper said:


> I have to agree with Smashholidays....sure there are genuine Egyptian men !!!
> Even though i have only been on holiday to Egypt i think that men in general have this stereotypical label , not just Egyptian men .


Thumbs up Sofia, 100% correct. One can't just label the whole community for a few single actions, and one can't blame the whole community for the mistakes of some opportunists, wherever you will go you will find the good and bad.

To understand a society, you must live and interact with it for several years, and of course you should take all your cautious to protect yourself against the bad individuals and don't let your guards off, then learn about the society and it's traditions, take what you want and leave what you don't want, find your own comfort circle and live happy within it. 

I don't see any point to come to Egypt armed with previous miss-fortunate ideas others may have put themselves in.

Find real educated Egyptian people, men and women who will show you the real side of this country. 

Stories I read here about women married to Egyptians some are happy, some are sad. But tell me please, how many sad stories English women had with English men?? How many English men beated their wives since the beginning of this year only? How many English women joined the "divorced club"?? Stories are the same in any community.

Of course when you hear about a woman that goes back to her country talking about the brute and un-human Egyptian man she just met and stayed a few months with him, you will get the "idea" about Egyptian men. But if you knew that this woman met that man in a bazaar, and he took her around and showed her love while his intention is to take her money, help his poor family and have some nice sex, and she took months to understand the truth, you will find out why she reached this opinion.

Thank you.


----------



## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> I have to agree with Smashholidays....sure there are genuine Egyptian men !!!
> Even though i have only been on holiday to Egypt i think that men in general have this stereotypical label , not just Egyptian men .
> Take the Italian Romeo who is supposed to sleep with 100's of woman , and supposed to be the best lovers in world,......or Turkish men who pray on woman , they fall in love with them and when the woman is back in her own country the Turkish man starts demanding money to be sent ,etc ... and so on
> I feel from what i have heard and seen , alot of woman only have themselves to blame when they come to Egypt ....i have seen it with my own eyes, the way they are all over the Egyptain men giving mixed signals to them ....So the heading of this thread shoudnt be "Are there any genuine Egyptian men?" ........it should be "Is any man genuine?" .......and of course the are , !!!!...
> So when i eventually move to Egypt i will not be asking myself this question i iwill live and learn ..i will most certainly not stereotype Egytian men as non genuine


Well said. I, too, have seen it with my own eyes.

Top of the day.


----------



## MaidenScotland

As a long term resident and a woman... all I can say is I hope you don't ever have to live and learn here.


----------



## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> Well said. I, too, have seen it with my own eyes.
> 
> Top of the day.


I was surpised and shocked by the behaviour of tourist woman in Egypt, and it takes alot to shock me !!!! 
So its unfair to ask that question .....its like an Eyptain man asking "are there any decent western woman?" ..........YES of course there is !!!!!!!!!!...there is good and back in both sexes everywhere
So Mardini you know exactly what iam on about lol


----------



## Beatle

Sofia Cooper said:


> So its unfair to ask that question .....its like an Eyptain man asking "are there any decent western woman?" ..........YES of course there is !!!!!!!!!!...there is good and back in both sexes everywhere


I agree - I object to being stereotyped so I think it is equally inappropriate for us to generalise about Egyptian men


----------



## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Answering your questions, no I haven't been to Birmingham, and I definitely don't wanna be there! But I know what I am talking about I'm afraid, it's not just a random statement, or else why would I mention Birmingham specifically???
> 
> If you're gonna try to question my credibility on my previous statement about Bham, then let me change "Birmingham" into ANY Egyptian city, cause it is happening in here, A LOT!
> 
> But you said that you didn't agree when I first mentioned it, but now you're disagreeing, but you're just asking me if I been to Birmingham or not, not telling me if it was happening in Birmingham or not :confused2:
> 
> 
> As for the educational system and college degrees in here, it is a really complicated topic, it's not just the degrees, also financial status of families, not all waiters having college degrees, and not all people with college degrees will work as waiters if they couldn't find other jobs.
> 
> Turning my nickname did make me laugh, but that wasn't the only thing it did, it did give me an idea about what kinda person he is, cause I've seen it many times before, people trying to "debate" others, but by insulting them, and this makes me laugh as well
> 
> 
> Have a nice time


I just had to reply to this thread ,,,,,mmmm Brimingham ?? what about it ....it a lovely place to live 
I am from Liverpool, but have lived in Birmingham for the last 5 yrs ,,,,i have lived in many places and i have to say Birmingham is one of the most friendliest and cleanest places , with such diverse cultures and many interesting places to see
So Deadguy/Badguy  ...your are welcome to visit and see it for yourslef


----------



## DeadGuy

Hi there,

Yes there are “ladies” who come here for fun, and yes there are Egyptian men that are genuine.

If some “lady” is looking for a male then how genuine he is won’t be a problem, but if she’s looking for a man, then being genuine will be an important thing.

Some “ladies” do come here and behave in a really....... biszzare way??? But you don’t find them complaining about Egyptian men, actually they return home happy with what they got, and they recommend Egypt as a destination for a specific purpose, and why is that? Cause they did find males that are sick enough to give them what they’re looking for, but in a situation like this? You NEVER see the “lady” complaining about how “genuine” or fake the guy(s) was/were! So please just don’t mix things!

When a lady is asking if there’s any genuine men in Egypt for the purpose of starting a relationship then I don’t think that it was wrong to do so, I never seen anyone who’s just looking for “fun” asking if there’s genuine ones, they just ask for what they want! FUN!

Have you ever thought why Egypt is known to be such a disappointment?? Have you considered that may be, just may be, some of the idiots that are bing mentioned.......do exist??!!!

As MaidenScotland said, hope no one would ever need to stay and learn things in here the hard way!

Good luck everyone!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

Beatle said:


> I agree - I object to being stereotyped so I think it is equally inappropriate for us to generalise about Egyptian men


Yes stereotyping people can upset a few ,, as people say people from Liverpool are stupid ..I am from there , and i wouldnt class myslef as stupid  or the same as when people say blondes are dumb ?...iam blonde and sure i a brain


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> I just had to reply to this thread ,,,,,mmmm Brimingham ?? what about it ....it a lovely place to live
> I am from Liverpool, but have lived in Birmingham for the last 5 yrs ,,,,i have lived in many places and i have to say Birmingham is one of the most friendliest and cleanest places , with such diverse cultures and many interesting places to see
> So Deadguy/Badguy  ...your are welcome to visit and see it for yourslef



Hi there,

According to the techniques used to question my statements' credibility, one of the ways was asking if I "live" there, I said I don't, but here comes a British guy, a reporter actually, that happened to live there! Not just happened to be a Brit!!

Let me quote him in couple lines........ "Birmingham University revealed that some students would prefer to quit their course than expose their arms.

A Muslim radiographer quit at Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading over the issue.

Yet Islamic experts are divided about how Muslim women should dress as the Koran is ambiguous on the matter.

The revised rules, issued on March 26, make clear that staff can wear uniforms with long sleeves as long as they roll them up securely above their elbows to wash and when they are on the wards."

Here's a link for the whole article:NHS relax superbug safeguards for Muslim staff... just days after Christian nurse is banned from wearing crucifix for health and safety reasons | Mail Online

And I'm not "Welcomed" in UK by the way lol, but thanks anyway!

Good luck!


----------



## smashholidays

MaidenScotland said:


> As a long term resident and a woman... all I can say is I hope you don't ever have to live and learn here.


But what were you doing in Egypt all this "long term resident" if you hope others "don't have to live and learn here"???? I don't think you were forced to live in this "horrible" place!! :confused2:


----------



## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> I was surpised and shocked by the behaviour of tourist woman in Egypt, and it takes alot to shock me !!!!
> So its unfair to ask that question .....its like an Eyptain man asking "are there any decent western woman?" ..........YES of course there is !!!!!!!!!!...there is good and back in both sexes everywhere
> So Mardini you know exactly what iam on about lol


Yes, I know where you are coming from on this. I also, believe social generalization is not appropriate, it is not even scientifically correct. Many western women wouldn't want to know what some eastern men think about them from the intense media they receive.

You are right on the spot as far as goodness and badness are natural treats of humans, what some women (regardless of where they come from) agree to give, some men (regardless of where they come from) will gladly take, and likewise the other way around. Now, I know men are not angels, and some are worse the daemons, but it will take lots of convincing if you suggest to me that all women are free from sinful approaches. But so has been the situation since day one. You know what this led to? Almost 6.5 billion more men and women. It seems that we like each other just the way we are.


----------



## Sofia Cooper

MaidenScotland said:


> As a long term resident and a woman... all I can say is I hope you don't ever have to live and learn here.


MaidenScotland maybe the term i used i will live and learn, maybe that was not the correct phrase, ......all i meant was i wont judge anyone as i have no right to


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> MaidenScotland maybe the term i used i will live and learn, maybe that was not the correct phrase, ......all i meant was i wont judge anyone as i have no right to


We don't have the right to judge anyone, but we do have the right to understand what kinda person we're dealing with, and we do have the right to think that someone's a "good" person or a "bad" one, and the ways to decide that varies from one person to another, but it's always useful to know what kinda person we're dealing with.

Hope you don't learn anything the hard way!!

Good luck in here!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

I will check this out thanx ......as i havent heard about any of this ,,, so this will be a good read . 
AND i wont ask why you are not allowed into the UK lol ....my mind will just boggle ....as it does !!! 
So Goodguy/Deadguy lol ....i iwll check it out


----------



## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> Yes, I know where you are coming from on this. I also, believe social generalization is not appropriate, it is not even scientifically correct. Many western women wouldn't want to know what some eastern men think about them from the intense media they receive.
> 
> You are right on the spot as far as goodness and badness are natural treats of humans, what some women (regardless of where they come from) agree to give, some men (regardless of where they come from) will gladly take, and likewise the other way around. Now, I know men are not angels, and some are worse the daemons, but it will take lots of convincing if you suggest to me that all women are free from sinful approaches. But so has been the situation since day one. You know what this led to? Almost 6.5 billion more men and women. It seems that we like each other just the way we are.


I dont know what media coverage woman get in the middle east ,, or should i say woman tourists ....i can only go on what i have seen ....i can only imagine what is in the media ,,
And yes of course there's good and bad in both sexes ....woman as bad as man,,visa versa
iam not suggesting in any way that woman are sinless ...iam merely saying in my opion that Egyptian men get a bad name for wanting to use western woman for their own means .,,, iam not blaming them iam saying that certain woman come to Egypt for sex and sex only ,,,,,and no one can tell me otherwise and i have know woman who do this ,,,,,and then they are the ones who expect to find love and marriage and the whole package ,,,,and when they dont get that they label Egyptiian men...!!


----------



## MaidenScotland

Are there any genuine Egyptian men?

The question is not about sex.. and the women are bombarded with the love and marriage thing.. that is the problem!!!


----------



## mardini

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> According to the techniques used to question my statements' credibility, one of the ways was asking if I "live" there, I said I don't, but here comes a British guy, a reporter actually, that happened to live there! Not just happened to be a Brit!!
> 
> Let me quote him in couple lines........ "Birmingham University revealed that some students would prefer to quit their course than expose their arms.
> 
> A Muslim radiographer quit at Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading over the issue.
> 
> Yet Islamic experts are divided about how Muslim women should dress as the Koran is ambiguous on the matter.
> 
> The revised rules, issued on March 26, make clear that staff can wear uniforms with long sleeves as long as they roll them up securely above their elbows to wash and when they are on the wards."
> 
> Here's a link for the whole article:NHS relax superbug safeguards for Muslim staff... just days after Christian nurse is banned from wearing crucifix for health and safety reasons | Mail Online
> 
> And I'm not "Welcomed" in UK by the way lol, but thanks anyway!
> 
> Good luck!


Now, DeadGuy, I have to say I am disappointed that you continue to degrade Islam, given that you are not a Muslim and obviously have very little knowledge about it and about Quran, it would have been appropriate if you did not speak about Islam and the Quran and would have been appropriate if you said "I don't know" it wouldn't have made you look poorly informed, that said, let a Muslim answer to how women should wear according to how "CLEAR" it was stated in the Quran.

Women are required according to the Islamic law revealed in the Quran to cover their heads, reveal their faces, wear wide (non-revealing) clothing. So, you see, it is only ambiguous to you. I can't claim to have full knowledge of your Torah or bible so I wouldn't speak to them and would always refer questions about them to those who do know.

Just stay at that line, when you don't know, you don't know, as simple as that, you'll be surprised how many people can easily find out how much you don't know about many things, and to a great part this can be attributed to the fact that - at your young age and the your living conditions - you haven't been with many people of different cultures and haven't been around, added to that the type of education you were subjected to, but still, it doesn't reflect positively upon you, to learn this from others at your young age is more helpful than to find it out on your own later. I sincerely don't believe that westerns on this site or any where else sympathize with you and think highly about you when you bad mouth Islam, and you have done that in many of your postings, and if any felt the opposite towards you, they are then pathetic. In general people don't prefer to be around full time complainers.

Often you have complained about not being able to secure a job in Egypt, well, when you interview with such attitude, not many interviewers will look out the window and thank god you arrived, surprisingly for you they will trash your application, not only in Egypt but worldwide. It is very important for your career to know that you are not competing for a job against 80 million Egyptians, you are competing against 6.5 billion applicants, the world has been flat since the mid 90s.

You need to learn how to respect others, learn what vocabulary to use around them, know when to use it, and most importantly; think many times before you utter them, you will find intelligent people speak very little and listen a lot, for the more you speak the more you err. You were given two ears, two eyes, and one tongue, so you would speak only half what hear and see.

For the many readers who will read this posting and have read my other postings, you are definitely surprised that I am using a strong language, and I rarely do, however, the reason for that is, Islam for me and for all Muslims is way of life not just a practice in the mosque and when it is spoken about in a negative way, then I am personally being degraded by it, that I don't allow.

It is worth noting here that I haven't read a posting on this forum in which a westerner spoke in an unpleasant fashion about the country's main religion - Islam -, this is commendable, and should have sent an indirect hint to the locals who do, and the locals should have immediately picked it up right after their first posting, when we are guests at some place we respect the surrounding environment even when we differ in concepts or in beliefs. We all do.

Now, DeadGuy, you said you were an Egyptian, I won't argue that, you might be. So you can continue to curse and degrade Alexandria and your own country all you want. And regardless of the fact that I personally disrespect that behavior, but, when you speak about Islam, borders vanish, at this point, I am an Egyptian, Syrian, Moroccan and a citizen of any country where Islam is practiced. I will respond to you.

You have crossed the red line by describing Quran the way you did. Any there would have been times when I would ask you to learn more about it, but, given that this is a continued pattern by you, I can tell that your hostile behavior against Egyptians and Muslims - at your young age - is affiliated with a larger organization.


----------



## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> We don't have the right to judge anyone, but we do have the right to understand what kinda person we're dealing with, and we do have the right to think that someone's a "good" person or a "bad" one, and the ways to decide that varies from one person to another, but it's always useful to know what kinda person we're dealing with.
> 
> Hope you don't learn anything the hard way!!
> 
> Good luck in here!


Deadguy i wont learn the hard way, as i understand men completely .......i know exactly what is what in this world, and i intend to keep it that way ....


----------



## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> I dont know what media coverage woman get in the middle east ,, or should i say woman tourists ....i can only go on what i have seen ....i can only imagine what is in the media ,,
> And yes of course there's good and bad in both sexes ....woman as bad as man,,visa versa
> iam not suggesting in any way that woman are sinless ...iam merely saying in my opion that Egyptian men get a bad name for wanting to use western woman for their own means .,,, iam not blaming them iam saying that certain woman come to Egypt for sex and sex only ,,,,,and no one can tell me otherwise and i have know woman who do this ,,,,,and then they are the ones who expect to find love and marriage and the whole package ,,,,and when they dont get that they label Egyptiian men...!!


I apologize if my posting after yours suggested that I was replying to "your" comments, actually I was replying to those who commented differently from you.


----------



## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> Are there any genuine Egyptian men?
> 
> The question is not about sex.. and the women are bombarded with the love and marriage thing.. that is the problem!!!


MaidenScotland, women can say yes or no, men are meant to propose not women. If I liked a lady, I will propose to her (given that many other things check out), she can say yes or no. I can propose to all women that I see fit, any one of them can say yes or no. 

If you find my comment out of context, then I didn't understand why you think it is a problem when men propose to women (whoever they are) in Egypt.


----------



## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> Deadguy i wont learn the hard way, as i understand men completely .......i know exactly what is what in this world, and i intend to keep it that way ....


You are a smart lady, sadly, smart men can't claim the same.


----------



## MaidenScotland

mardini said:


> MaidenScotland, women can say yes or no, men are meant to propose not women. If I liked a lady, I will propose to her (given that many other things check out), she can say yes or no. I can propose to all women that I see fit, any one of them can say yes or no.
> 
> If you find my comment out of context, then I didn't understand why you think it is a problem when men propose to women (whoever they are) in Egypt.




The problem is... a vast amount of these guys only want western women for a visa and money.. and yes we will have people coming on saying my husband is is wonderful and I am sure he is..we simply see more sad stories than we do happy ones. MMID.... was told to me by an Egyptian man. 
Maiden


----------



## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> The problem is... a vast amount of these guys only want western women for a visa and money.. and yes we will have people coming on saying my husband is is wonderful and I am sure he is..we simply see more sad stories than we do happy ones. MMID.... was told to me by an Egyptian man.
> Maiden


Yes true, there are many stories like those, sometimes not for visa or immigration, but for money, sometimes just for s*x. Sometimes I think, women will always be targeted by bad men every where in the world, for all kind of reasons. Yet, many women are not as tough as they should be. I have heard of no man that was an equal for a fighting-back woman.


----------



## mardini

smashholidays said:


> Thumbs up Sofia, 100% correct. One can't just label the whole community for a few single actions, and one can't blame the whole community for the mistakes of some opportunists, wherever you will go you will find the good and bad.
> 
> To understand a society, you must live and interact with it for several years, and of course you should take all your cautious to protect yourself against the bad individuals and don't let your guards off, then learn about the society and it's traditions, take what you want and leave what you don't want, find your own comfort circle and live happy within it.
> 
> I don't see any point to come to Egypt armed with previous miss-fortunate ideas others may have put themselves in.
> 
> Find real educated Egyptian people, men and women who will show you the real side of this country.
> 
> Stories I read here about women married to Egyptians some are happy, some are sad. But tell me please, how many sad stories English women had with English men?? How many English men beated their wives since the beginning of this year only? How many English women joined the "divorced club"?? Stories are the same in any community.
> 
> Of course when you hear about a woman that goes back to her country talking about the brute and un-human Egyptian man she just met and stayed a few months with him, you will get the "idea" about Egyptian men. But if you knew that this woman met that man in a bazaar, and he took her around and showed her love while his intention is to take her money, help his poor family and have some nice sex, and she took months to understand the truth, you will find out why she reached this opinion.
> 
> Thank you.


Very right. I have met so many good people in Egypt, to tell you the truth, I haven't met a bad person yet, male or female, and negative things they did, are as equal as negative things I do. No difference. Just like elsewhere, you choose people who match your style and way of thinking. You will be happy with them, and exactly like you said, don't expect much from someone you met in a bazaar for a quickie then fantasized life-long relation with. Odds are, those fantasies won't come true.

Don't you agree that a majority see/judge the world from their own perspectives?


----------



## DeadGuy

mardini said:


> Now, DeadGuy, I have to say I am disappointed that you continue to degrade Islam, given that you are not a Muslim and obviously have very little knowledge about it and about Quran, it would have been appropriate if you did not speak about Islam and the Quran and would have been appropriate if you said "I don't know" it wouldn't have made you look poorly informed, that said, let a Muslim answer to how women should wear according to how "CLEAR" it was stated in the Quran.
> 
> Women are required according to the Islamic law revealed in the Quran to cover their heads, reveal their faces, wear wide (non-revealing) clothing. So, you see, it is only ambiguous to you. I can't claim to have full knowledge of your Torah or bible so I wouldn't speak to them and would always refer questions about them to those who do know.
> 
> Just stay at that line, when you don't know, you don't know, as simple as that, you'll be surprised how many people can easily find out how much you don't know about many things, and to a great part this can be attributed to the fact that - at your young age and the your living conditions - you haven't been with many people of different cultures and haven't been around, added to that the type of education you were subjected to, but still, it doesn't reflect positively upon you, to learn this from others at your young age is more helpful than to find it out on your own later. I sincerely don't believe that westerns on this site or any where else sympathize with you and think highly about you when you bad mouth Islam, and you have done that in many of your postings, and if any felt the opposite towards you, they are then pathetic. In general people don't prefer to be around full time complainers.
> 
> Often you have complained about not being able to secure a job in Egypt, well, when you interview with such attitude, not many interviewers will look out the window and thank god you arrived, surprisingly for you they will trash your application, not only in Egypt but worldwide. It is very important for your career to know that you are not competing for a job against 80 million Egyptians, you are competing against 6.5 billion applicants, the world has been flat since the mid 90s.
> 
> You need to learn how to respect others, learn what vocabulary to use around them, know when to use it, and most importantly; think many times before you utter them, you will find intelligent people speak very little and listen a lot, for the more you speak the more you err. You were given two ears, two eyes, and one tongue, so you would speak only half what hear and see.
> 
> For the many readers who will read this posting and have read my other postings, you are definitely surprised that I am using a strong language, and I rarely do, however, the reason for that is, Islam for me and for all Muslims is way of life not just a practice in the mosque and when it is spoken about in a negative way, then I am personally being degraded by it, that I don't allow.
> 
> It is worth noting here that I haven't read a posting on this forum in which a westerner spoke in an unpleasant fashion about the country's main religion - Islam -, this is commendable, and should have sent an indirect hint to the locals who do, and the locals should have immediately picked it up right after their first posting, when we are guests at some place we respect the surrounding environment even when we differ in concepts or in beliefs. We all do.
> 
> Now, DeadGuy, you said you were an Egyptian, I won't argue that, you might be. So you can continue to curse and degrade Alexandria and your own country all you want. And regardless of the fact that I personally disrespect that behavior, but, when you speak about Islam, borders vanish, at this point, I am an Egyptian, Syrian, Moroccan and a citizen of any country where Islam is practiced. I will respond to you.
> 
> You have crossed the red line by describing Quran the way you did. Any there would have been times when I would ask you to learn more about it, but, given that this is a continued pattern by you, I can tell that your hostile behavior against Egyptians and Muslims - at your young age - is affiliated with a larger organization.



I think you've missed one lil tiny thing?? I been QUOTING the article's writer's words??!!! LOL!!!



DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> According to the techniques used to question my statements' credibility, one of the ways was asking if I "live" there, I said I don't, but here comes a British guy, a reporter actually, that happened to live there! Not just happened to be a Brit!!
> 
> Let me quote him in couple lines........



Using TWO eyes to read the word "QUOTE" would've saved us all this unnecessary........ How to describe it? None sense?!!!


Don't kill the messenger dude! If you don't like what it says then go shoot the writer! Don't just come after me! Jeeeeez!!!

As for your...... I dunno what to call it?! You think of a way to call it! I must have missed the part where we've met, talked, about everything, including my age, my education, my "experiences" and so on?!!! And for the exact same reason, cause you know TOO much about me?? I won't bother to answer any of your points, cause I'm sure you got all the answers already, so I'll just save myself the hassle!!!!

TWO eyes, one tongue! Too bad there are 2 hands to type!

Good luck figuring things out dude! You're definitely gonna need it!


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> Deadguy i wont learn the hard way, as i understand men completely .......i know exactly what is what in this world, and i intend to keep it that way ....


My comment wasn't meant about "men" actually, it was about "life" in here in general, males are one of the things that you will need to learn about as well, but it wasn't my point lol

Good luck!


----------



## mardini

DeadGuy said:


> I think you've missed one lil tiny thing?? I been QUOTING the article's writer's words??!!! LOL!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using TWO eyes to read the word "QUOTE" would've saved us all this unnecessary........ How to describe it? None sense?!!!
> 
> 
> Don't kill the messenger dude! If you don't like what it says then go shoot the writer! Don't just come after me! Jeeeeez!!!
> 
> As for your...... I dunno what to call it?! You think of a way to call it! I must have missed the part where we've met, talked, about everything, including my age, my education, my "experiences" and so on?!!! And for the exact same reason, cause you know TOO much about me?? I won't bother to answer any of your points, cause I'm sure you got all the answers already, so I'll just save myself the hassle!!!!
> 
> TWO eyes, one tongue! Too bad there are 2 hands to type!
> 
> Good luck figuring things out dude! You're definitely gonna need it!


DeadGuy: I apologize. I didn't realize you were still quoting. My bad, and for that I apologize.

This is my second apology this early morning, usually this means I should sleep now.


----------



## DeadGuy

mardini said:


> DeadGuy: I apologize. I didn't realize you were still quoting. My bad, and for that I apologize.
> 
> This is my second apology this early morning, usually this means I should sleep now.


Well, you're probably tired and falling asleep, but I gotta tell you man, you were talking like you do know me for real!! And I gotta tell you that you messed up many times trying to show how messed up I am :lol: For some reason it made me laugh, may be cause it's coming out from a person like yourself? Calling for how important it is not to judge others??!!! LOL!!!!

If you got more of your "lovely" impressions about me then please, let me know lol!

Good night man! Sweat dreams!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> DeadGuy: I apologize. I didn't realize you were still quoting. My bad, and for that I apologize.
> 
> This is my second apology this early morning, usually this means I should sleep now.


i think this may of been my mistake as Deadguy was quoting an opinion of a a western journalist , i hold my hands up to misunderstanding and commenting on Birmingham saying what a nice place etc .....oh by the way Deadguy you should never always believe what reporters write , as they can fabricate the story ,, 
So really it is me who should apologise to Deadguy for the misunderstanding 
I think i should leave alone and just log into FACEBOOK and chat with my Egyptian freinds there looool ...and experience Egypt when i arrive (joking) 
On the serious side i apoligse to you both 

Regards Sofia


----------



## DeadGuy

mardini said:


> .....................
> 
> Now, DeadGuy, you said you were an Egyptian, I won't argue that, you might be.
> 
> .........


Why the hell do I keep getting that from almost everyone talks to me online??!!!!!!!!! DAMN!!!

I don't mean it in a bad way, I mean I'm flattered to be considered none Egyptian sometimes, specially when the rest of the Egyptians around me are acting in a real "civil" way that would make any Egyptian feel "proud" about being one! But it keeps happening a lot for some reason! And it's starting to annoy me! :lol:

Should I start asking for females' phone numbers or add mine in every post I leave to make it clear that I am an Egyptian or something??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> i think this may of been my mistake as Deadguy was quoting an opinion of a a western journalist , i hold my hands up to misunderstanding and commenting on Birmingham saying what a nice place etc .....oh by the way Deadguy you should never always believe what reporters write , as they can fabricate the story ,,
> So really it is me who should apologise to Deadguy for the misunderstanding
> I think i should leave alone and just log into FACEBOOK and chat with my Egyptian freinds there looool ...and experience Egypt when i arrive (joking)
> On the serious side i apoligse to you both
> 
> Regards Sofia


I'm not the kinda sensitive people who moan about people's misunderstandings lol So NO ONE needs to apologize for me about anything!

And I'm not stupid enough to believe what the reporters say, I got my own sources to check and double check what I get from anyone, and as I said when it was all first mentioned long time ago, it wasn't just a random statement.......

Good luck in here!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> You are a smart lady, sadly, smart men can't claim the same.


Thanx Mardini but i feel its not about being smart its about me being, or trying to be as underestanding as possible, and not being biased in any way, seeing both sides of the coin as they say .....and in this day and age that can be very hard to do, i like to think as i get older i get wiser


----------



## mardini

DeadGuy said:


> Why the hell do I keep getting that from almost everyone talks to me online??!!!!!!!!! DAMN!!!
> 
> I don't mean it in a bad way, I mean I'm flattered to be considered none Egyptian sometimes, specially when the rest of the Egyptians around me are acting in a real "civil" way that would make any Egyptian feel "proud" about being one! But it keeps happening a lot for some reason! And it's starting to annoy me! :lol:
> 
> Should I start asking for females' phone numbers or add mine in every post I leave to make it clear that I am an Egyptian or something??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


DeadGuy, the perception about you developed from your own writings, you can push the dirty wall all you want, and it won't move, or you can paint it with cheerful colors. I am not misreading you here. You did contribute to this forum with negative comments about your country and/or the religion, and you just said in what I quote you "I'm flattered to be considered none Egyptian sometimes" so, other times you are proud to be an Egyptian, aren't you?

Do all Egyptians post asking for females phone numbers? The Egyptians I know are not like that. They are well behaved, highly motivated, hard working, real positive, helpful for no return, and always proud.

Even as a tourist and when I visited your city Alexandria with foreign females friends, the people there were extremely nice, kind, always smiling, always promoting their country, and have always been helpful, none of them asked for special favors either from me or from the company I was with.

And I know I am not misreading you too when I understand the quotes you used around the words "civil" and "proud" as "uncivil" and "non-proud" as you describe the Egyptians around you, then why don't you change your surroundings? If it is all bad, all of it, then move. I don't know many high standard locations in Alexandria, but in Cairo, Maadi is a good place, 6th of October is a good place, New Cairo is a good area, Shekh Zayed, there are many other places, I know many people who can assist you move if you want. They will secure the right place, right people around you, you won't have to see "all" the bad people you refer to.

We Syrians greatly value Egyptians, it just isn't right what you are saying about them and is not fair. I want you to note that a Syrian always stood up for your country for no return, and I only interpret what the Egyptians I know are like. So, here again, as with my other postings in which I was replying to you, I disagree with how you generalize your negative description of Egypt and Egyptians. Egypt is not the twenty something years you lived.

As far as you not being sensitive to apology, it didn't matter, it was the right thing whether or not you asked for it. By the way, Egyptians I know do the same.


----------



## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> i think this may of been my mistake as Deadguy was quoting an opinion of a a western journalist , i hold my hands up to misunderstanding and commenting on Birmingham saying what a nice place etc .....oh by the way Deadguy you should never always believe what reporters write , as they can fabricate the story ,,
> So really it is me who should apologise to Deadguy for the misunderstanding
> I think i should leave alone and just log into FACEBOOK and chat with my Egyptian freinds there looool ...and experience Egypt when i arrive (joking)
> On the serious side i apoligse to you both
> 
> Regards Sofia


Hi Sofia,

As to my part of it, you didn't contribute to the way I wrote my response. The perception about DeadGuy that was developed from his own writings" along with long work hours, just made me slip that detail. I should have looked closely. But again, sometimes, you'll come across a person that has such a negative attitude to the extent that you'll misinterpret a simple good morning by him/her, and my posting was not only about this detail, but about other postings as well that I had preferred not to respond to at the time.

I am really glad though to read reasonable people like yourself and the others.

Keep smiling, it's also a great exercise


----------



## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> According to the techniques used to question my statements' credibility, one of the ways was asking if I "live" there, I said I don't, but here comes a British guy, a reporter actually, that happened to live there! Not just happened to be a Brit!!
> 
> Let me quote him in couple lines........ "Birmingham University revealed that some students would prefer to quit their course than expose their arms.
> 
> A Muslim radiographer quit at Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading over the issue.
> 
> Yet Islamic experts are divided about how Muslim women should dress as the Koran is ambiguous on the matter.
> 
> The revised rules, issued on March 26, make clear that staff can wear uniforms with long sleeves as long as they roll them up securely above their elbows to wash and when they are on the wards."
> 
> Here's a link for the whole article:NHS relax superbug safeguards for Muslim staff... just days after Christian nurse is banned from wearing crucifix for health and safety reasons | Mail Online
> 
> And I'm not "Welcomed" in UK by the way lol, but thanks anyway!
> 
> Good luck!


I too lived in Birmingham briefly and don't share your opinion on the area. However, it amused me that your opinion is based on a Daily Mail article as the newspaper is not known for its balanced opinions! It just seems quite surreal that you are expressing your opinion on Britain to British people based on newspaper articles. If people who hadn't visited Egypt made strong statements about Egypt based on what they had read on the internet, would you not question their credibility?

I have read the article though - I disagree with the emphasis the journalist has placed on how religious discrimination legislation is being interpreted in the UK. I am aware of many cases where Muslims have also not succeeded in claims brought under the religious discrimination legislation but those cases are not referred to. I am also aware of many instances where workplaces seek to accomodate religous practices of other faiths besides Islam.

But I am definitely off topic now!

But I am definitely going off topic now!


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> I too lived in Birmingham briefly and don't share your opinion on the area. However, it amused me that your opinion is based on a Daily Mail article as the newspaper is not known for its balanced opinions! It just seems quite surreal that you are expressing your opinion on Britain to British people based on newspaper articles. If people who hadn't visited Egypt made strong statements about Egypt based on what they had read on the internet, would you not question their credibility?
> 
> I have read the article though - I disagree with the emphasis the journalist has placed on how religious discrimination legislation is being interpreted in the UK. I am aware of many cases where Muslims have also not succeeded in claims brought under the religious discrimination legislation but those cases are not referred to. I am also aware of many instances where workplaces seek to accomodate religous practices of other faiths besides Islam.
> 
> But I am definitely off topic now!
> 
> But I am definitely going off topic now!



Well, as I said before, I got my sources to check and double check on what I hear from anyone........... AND, It was NOT just a random statement! Saying it again! Just in case anyone still missed seeing it!!

Good luck!


----------



## DeadGuy

mardini said:


> DeadGuy, the perception about you developed from your own writings, you can push the dirty wall all you want, and it won't move, or you can paint it with cheerful colors. I am not misreading you here. You did contribute to this forum with negative comments about your country and/or the religion, and you just said in what I quote you "I'm flattered to be considered none Egyptian sometimes" so, other times you are proud to be an Egyptian, aren't you?
> 
> Do all Egyptians post asking for females phone numbers? The Egyptians I know are not like that. They are well behaved, highly motivated, hard working, real positive, helpful for no return, and always proud.
> 
> Even as a tourist and when I visited your city Alexandria with foreign females friends, the people there were extremely nice, kind, always smiling, always promoting their country, and have always been helpful, none of them asked for special favors either from me or from the company I was with.
> 
> And I know I am not misreading you too when I understand the quotes you used around the words "civil" and "proud" as "uncivil" and "non-proud" as you describe the Egyptians around you, then why don't you change your surroundings? If it is all bad, all of it, then move. I don't know many high standard locations in Alexandria, but in Cairo, Maadi is a good place, 6th of October is a good place, New Cairo is a good area, Shekh Zayed, there are many other places, I know many people who can assist you move if you want. They will secure the right place, right people around you, you won't have to see "all" the bad people you refer to.
> 
> We Syrians greatly value Egyptians, it just isn't right what you are saying about them and is not fair. I want you to note that a Syrian always stood up for your country for no return, and I only interpret what the Egyptians I know are like. So, here again, as with my other postings in which I was replying to you, I disagree with how you generalize your negative description of Egypt and Egyptians. Egypt is not the twenty something years you lived.
> 
> As far as you not being sensitive to apology, it didn't matter, it was the right thing whether or not you asked for it. By the way, Egyptians I know do the same.



A WONDERFUL…..Article? And an assessment for me??!! LOL!!

There we go again with the 2 eyes thing………You QUOTED me in “I'm flattered to be considered none Egyptian sometimes”???? I suggest you to read the rest of what I said?? Or is it just a habit to pick on some parts that would support your opinions and neglect the rest?!

But this time I’ll comment on some of your “points” ……Not cause I owe you an answer, but I’ll just do it cause the “argument” has turned to a funny curve for me actually!!



mardini said:


> Do all Egyptians post asking for females phone numbers? The Egyptians I know are not like that. They are well behaved, highly motivated, hard working, real positive, helpful for no return, and always proud.



If you really did read all what I’ve said then you’d have seen the word ONLINE????? And online conversations that got an Egyptian male??? They ask for females’ phone numbers or e-mail addresses 90% of the time!!! Or else they just throw their own phone numbers or e-mail addresses!!!!



mardini said:


> Even as a tourist and when I visited your city Alexandria with foreign females friends, the people there were extremely nice, kind, always smiling, always promoting their country, and have always been helpful, none of them asked for special favors either from me or from the company I was with


I really can’t stop laughing now! You really BELIEVE that I am from Alexandria for some reason! Few hours ago you were questioning the fact that I am an Egyptian, but now you’re TELLING me that I am from Alexandria!!! Life’s great ain’t it???!!!!!



mardini said:


> And I know I am not misreading you too when I understand the quotes you used around the words "civil" and "proud" as "uncivil" and "non-proud" as you describe the Egyptians around you, then why don't you change your surroundings? If it is all bad, all of it, then move. I don't know many high standard locations in Alexandria, but in Cairo, Maadi is a good place, 6th of October is a good place, New Cairo is a good area, Shekh Zayed, there are many other places, I know many people who can assist you move if you want. They will secure the right place, right people around you, you won't have to see "all" the bad people you refer to.


Again, I said ONLINE???!!!Besides!! Your “opinion” is based on the “FACT” that I live in Alexandria??!!! 



mardini said:


> We Syrians greatly value Egyptians, it just isn't right what you are saying about them and is not fair. I want you to note that a Syrian always stood up for your country for no return, and I only interpret what the Egyptians I know are like. So, here again, as with my other postings in which I was replying to you, I disagree with how you generalize your negative description of Egypt and Egyptians. Egypt is not the twenty something years you lived.


Again, made me laugh!!! So you’re speaking for the WHOLE Syrians in here??!!! So I hope you got something to say about the Syrians that STABBED 2 Egyptian guys in Kuwait to death couple weeks ago??!! That must be so loving isn’t it??!!! Or now you won’t be speaking for ALL Syrians?!!!!



mardini said:


> As far as you not being sensitive to apology, it didn't matter, it was the right thing whether or not you asked for it. By the way, Egyptians I know do the same.


It is the right thing to do, and it would always be nice to apologize when making mistakes, but as you can see and as you said in one of your own posts, admitting that you do not know enough about something or someone is better than pretending to know more about it!!! But look at yourself! For God’s sake you’re talking like you KNOW me and you won’t stop even when I told you that you are wrong! You keep going on and on and on! And I’m not expecting you to stop soon to be honest! So keep them coming! You do make me laugh every time I read your “analysis” for me!

I’ve said that it is our right to know what kinda people we’re dealing with, and you do keep making yourself clear! And to be honest with you? I got a pretty good idea about what kinda person you are! But I don’t think you’d be that flexible hearing it IF I decided to talk about my opinions! But for some reason you think you have the right to analyze me basing on the funny “facts” that are stuck in your mind for some reason!

I dunno what else to say, but you keeping supporting how important it is not to judge anyone at all, followed by you analyzing that much based on imaginary stuff doesn't make you look good at all dude!!

Good luck!


----------



## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Well, as I said before, I got my sources to check and double check on what I hear from anyone........... AND, It was NOT just a random statement! Saying it again! Just in case anyone still missed seeing it!!
> 
> [/QU!OTE]
> 
> Your opinion is based on Daily Mail articles and anonymous double-checking sources?! Oh dear but good luck!


----------



## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> Your opinion is based on Daily Mail articles and anonymous double-checking sources?! Oh dear but good luck!


Lol it's not actually, I came across this article by pure chance, long time after knowing what I've said!

Good luck to you too!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> Hi Sofia,
> 
> As to my part of it, you didn't contribute to the way I wrote my response. The perception about DeadGuy that was developed from his own writings" along with long work hours, just made me slip that detail. I should have looked closely. But again, sometimes, you'll come across a person that has such a negative attitude to the extent that you'll misinterpret a simple good morning by him/her, and my posting was not only about this detail, but about other postings as well that I had preferred not to respond to at the time.
> 
> I am really glad though to read reasonable people like yourself and the others.
> 
> Keep smiling, it's also a great exercise


It intersting to find someone so negative about their country and themselves !! as i feel exactly the same about the UK ......only for the fact for our high standard of living and bad weather (in which no one can change that) lol .....BUT Deadguy seems to have not had things so good ....i could be extremely wrong to say this , but i just feel that not all Egyptians are proud or happy,,,, and then you have to look into the reasons why ,,,, so therefore they are going to have a negative outlook and not have anything good to say about their country and people
So Deadguy ........your not happy there and iam not happy here .....i guess we need to re-evaluate our life and move looooool .......and Mardini no matter what i always try and smile


----------



## animaltyler

Hi, I have a very honest and trust worthy egyptian husband. We work together on the quad safari tours in Hurghada. He has never asked me for money and has always treated me like a princess. I have just recently had a misscarriage and the care and attention he gave me was amazing, I have never felt so loved. He has 7 sisters and his mum who i get on really well with and I am treated the same as everyone else in the family.
After a few awful mentally and physically abusing relationships back in England, I feel so blessed that I met my husband and was given the chance to start a new life with him here.
Like others have said, There are good and bad people evrywhere, but you'll know when it feels right. Just spend as much time as possible in real life situations with him before you make a final decision.
I hope you will find yourself as happy and loved as me.


----------



## DeadGuy

animaltyler said:


> ...................
> 
> you'll know when it feels right. Just spend as much time as possible in real life situations with him before you make a final decision.
> 
> .....................



Finally someone's making some sense 

Thank you!!!


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> It intersting to find someone so negative about their country and themselves !! as i feel exactly the same about the UK ......only for the fact for our high standard of living and bad weather (in which no one can change that) lol .....BUT Deadguy seems to have not had things so good ....i could be extremely wrong to say this , but i just feel that not all Egyptians are proud or happy,,,, and then you have to look into the reasons why ,,,, so therefore they are going to have a negative outlook and not have anything good to say about their country and people
> So Deadguy ........your not happy there and iam not happy here .....i guess we need to re-evaluate our life and move looooool .......and Mardini no matter what i always try and smile


You're not totally right, but you're not totally wrong either, it's just like what Avril Lavigne said in her song...... Complicated! :lol:


----------



## Sofia Cooper

animaltyler said:


> Hi, I have a very honest and trust worthy egyptian husband. We work together on the quad safari tours in Hurghada. He has never asked me for money and has always treated me like a princess. I have just recently had a misscarriage and the care and attention he gave me was amazing, I have never felt so loved. He has 7 sisters and his mum who i get on really well with and I am treated the same as everyone else in the family.
> After a few awful mentally and physically abusing relationships back in England, I feel so blessed that I met my husband and was given the chance to start a new life with him here.
> Like others have said, There are good and bad people evrywhere, but you'll know when it feels right. Just spend as much time as possible in real life situations with him before you make a final decision.
> I hope you will find yourself as happy and loved as me.


animaltyler ....its nice to read that your life is for the better in many ways .,, and you must feel so lucky to have found " Mr Right " in Egypt ,, he seems what alot of western woman would want to find in and Egyptian man......infact in any man ,,,,,
He seems he is kind , honest and most of all genuine .....
Its also a plus that you get along with his family ...and especailly his mother !!! 
i just have to clear up one thing ,,,iam not actually looking to setlle down yet with a man lool .....unless whisks me off my feet ,,,,but i doubt that will happen for a good while 
Sorry to hear about your loss ,,and with the support of your husband , you iwll both maybe wont forget of course but support each other and look to your rosy future


----------



## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> You're not totally right, but you're not totally wrong either, it's just like what Avril Lavigne said in her song...... Complicated! :lol:


I never listen to Avril Lavinge lol ....so i wouldnt know what song you are on about .......so what your complicated or do do mean awkward looooooool ....yes i have had to deal with men who are complicated,, in many aspects of my life .....and sure i always end up understanding their ignorance, and thire awkwardness .......if you say to them black is black ,,,they would still insisit one saying it is not ...so i think you are maybe winding me up to bite back ,,,,,guess what it aint gonna happen looooooooooooool


----------



## jojo

mardini said:


> Do all Egyptians post asking for females phone numbers? The Egyptians I know are not like that. They are well behaved, highly motivated, hard working, real positive, helpful for no return, and always proud.


Having moderated the egyptian forum a while ago, it has to be the only forum where yes, men have come on here asking for womens phone numbers, asking to meet women, wanting to show them round and find them nice places to live..... Yes, they're being friendly. But the persistence and tenacity I havent seen on any other forum. Infact I would say this behaviour is pretty much exclusive!

Jo xxx


----------



## moataz123

jojo said:


> Having moderated the egyptian forum a while ago, it has to be the only forum where yes, men have come on here asking for womens phone numbers, asking to meet women, wanting to show them round and find them nice places to live..... Yes, they're being friendly. But the persistence and tenacity I havent seen on any other forum. Infact I would say this behaviour is pretty much exclusive!
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes jojo, I am sure you are right, some restless Egyptian men keep scanning the exapt forums to find a girl with a phone number, or offer a phone number...etc. It's a disgusting behavior that wouldn't have accrued unless what they see from tourists keeps igniting their memories, if you know what I mean.

They mix what a tourist do in a 1 week vacation with any "another language" woman trying to find her life in Egypt. So it's like: let's give it a shot, maybe she will respond. A behavior that should be described not less than: "the cattle behavior". Disgusting.

But the thread's title is a ... little? "bad" too?? Because I am sure the majority of Egyptian men are genuine. The majority of the Egyptian people are genuine.


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> I never listen to Avril Lavinge lol ....so i wouldnt know what song you are on about .......so what your complicated or do do mean awkward looooooool ....yes i have had to deal with men who are complicated,, in many aspects of my life .....and sure i always end up understanding their ignorance, and thire awkwardness .......if you say to them black is black ,,,they would still insisit one saying it is not ...so i think you are maybe winding me up to bite back ,,,,,guess what it aint gonna happen looooooooooooool


Hi there,

What I was describing as complicated was what you said earlier:



Sofia Cooper said:


> ........................
> i could be extremely wrong to say this , but i just feel that not all Egyptians are proud or happy
> .....................


Wasn't "winding" you to bite back or anything, I wasn't even biting so you bite back :lol:

I am a complicated person as well :lol: but it's not what I meant :lol:

Good luck!


----------



## jojo

moataz123 said:


> Yes jojo, I am sure you are right, some restless Egyptian men keep scanning the exapt forums to find a girl with a phone number, or offer a phone number...etc. It's a disgusting behavior that wouldn't have accrued unless what they see from tourists keeps igniting their memories, if you know what I mean.
> 
> They mix what a tourist do in a 1 week vacation with any "another language" woman trying to find her life in Egypt. So it's like: let's give it a shot, maybe she will respond. A behavior that should be described not less than: "the cattle behavior". Disgusting.
> 
> But the thread's title is a ... little? "bad" too?? Because I am sure the majority of Egyptian men are genuine. The majority of the Egyptian people are genuine.



I'm sure you're right!!! I discovered the right word for this on another thread "REPUTATION"! And it is the reputation of a few that will always taint peoples views on the rest - as with every society, group etc!! 

Also as I've pointed out, Its only really ever been on the Egyptian forum that we get these funny little chaps coming along........ !! But of course not all egyptians or all men are going to be like this. But its doesnt hurt to be cautious, especially when there are language and cultural differences

Jo xxx


----------



## moataz123

jojo said:


> I'm sure you're right!!! I discovered the right word for this on another thread "REPUTATION"! And it is the reputation of a few that will always taint peoples views on the rest - as with every society, group etc!!
> 
> Also as I've pointed out, Its only really ever been on the Egyptian forum that we get these funny little chaps coming along........ !! But of course not all egyptians or all men are going to be like this. But its doesnt hurt to be cautious, especially when there are language and cultural differences
> 
> Jo xxx


I have a strong connection to the tourism field in Egypt, and I it came times when girls from Romania started to pour in Egypt finding work as dancers, entertainment teams, and "other services" I can't mention here. What happened is that the whole Romanian girls were stamped with the "reputation", which I couldn't believe personally. Sure not all Romanians must be dancers, or who is being moms, teachers, doctors ....etc back there?

Several years ago I decided (out of economic decision) to invest in Romania, and as soon as you say "Romania", people give you this knowing look: yeah, this guy decided to play. which I was shrugging away. You know what?? I ended up living with the best wonderful woman you can ever find, with the best family ever (in my eyes). And I proved that what we have in Egypt is just less than 1% of all Romanians. The rest are nothing like this.

During my business there, I met Italians and Germans that came to Romania searching for those girls they heard about, want to have some fun for a week or something, ad they were asking me: "what are you doing tonight?? let's go out and find girls??" and my reply: "Mr. xx, this is a hard working country, you will go out to find everybody sleeping since 11pm". Surly you can find what you want, but it's a very small percentage of the country.

Sadly, a minor rotten spot in an apple can harm all the fruit.


----------



## jojo

moataz123 said:


> Sadly, a minor rotten spot in an apple can harm all the fruit.


And therein lies the whole Stereotype problem!!!!! But nonetheless, its human nature to use that as the starting point/benchmark for all nationalities, cultures etc. I dont think any of us are stupid enough to assume that every single person of a particular race are the same, but "en masse" thats how we perceive them. Its not meant to be offensive. In fact I'm sure some nationalities, in particular religious groups are happy with their stereotypical image, cos it aint all bad!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo

jojo said:


> Having moderated the egyptian forum a while ago, it has to be the only forum where yes, men have come on here asking for womens phone numbers, asking to meet women, wanting to show them round and find them nice places to live..... Yes, they're being friendly. But the persistence and tenacity I havent seen on any other forum. Infact I would say this behaviour is pretty much exclusive!
> 
> Jo xxx



I'll also add that when I was moderating the Egypt forum, I actually had to remove my skype link and my blonde profile picture as I had several men from Egypt trying to make contact - nowt wrong in that you might say. just being friendly?? but I found their needy tenacity alarming, their obvious opinion of blonde western women a little insulting (stereotype????) and it was only men from Egypt!??????

Jo xxx


----------



## MaidenScotland

jojo said:


> I'll also add that when I was moderating the Egypt forum, I actually had to remove my skype link and my blonde profile picture as I had several men from Egypt trying to make contact - nowt wrong in that you might say. just being friendly?? but I found their needy tenacity alarming, their obvious opinion of blonde western women a little insulting (stereotype????) and it was only men from Egypt!??????
> 
> Jo xxx




Why anyone would say there is nothing wrong with that astounds me, we never get any Egyptian women trying to contact us other than through You could meet me and my sister for coffee... yeah right.


----------



## jojo

Also a little strange I find is that the Egypt forum seems to have such a high number of Egyptian single men posting offering help, yes you could say thats because Egyptian men are simply kind hearted, but do we really think that. Is that really the case??! 

This is essentially a British Expat forum, for those who are thinking of moving to Egypt, or who are already there. I cant think of any of the other expat forums where this happens. In the Spanish forum, yes we have one or two Spanish people posting and they're very knowledgeable and very welcome, however, without acception they all have marital/family links to Spain/UK

Jo xxx


----------



## moataz123

Actually I think you are out of subjects and repeating yourself over and over. Ok, everybody understood, hurray, Egyptian men are bothering people in this forum, Egyptian men are the worst in all the forums, Egyptian men are trying to hook up with foreign women, Egyptian men are sending phone numbers to women here because they think they are bad women ...... etc etc etc. Understood, Egyptian men are not genuine. Bravo, nice observation. Then what??

Ah, and the Egyptian women got a share too, they are "trying to contact" you to meet her and her sister for coffee? Actually how this brilliant observation would make benefit for the expats in Egypt? 

Giving that the Egyptian men are bad, and that they created the unique super ability to send their phone numbers to foreign women in this forum, then we can easily understand that the Egyptian men are forbidding the Egyptian women to show their faces to foreign beautiful women here, and that those horrible men put their women in coffins at night, and in a rare occasion when an Egyptian female would escape this very tight siege, they don't dare to be seen alone with another woman drinking coffee. Shame on you.

My advise for our brilliant observers here: find a subject that really can make a benefit for the expats trying to live in this country.


----------



## moataz123

jojo said:


> This is essentially a British Expat forum, for those who are thinking of moving to Egypt, or who are already there. I cant think of any of the other expat forums where this happens. Jo xxx


jojo,  you are inventing the forum rules or you don't know the forum rules??? Is it really written somewhere here that: "this is essentially a British Expat forum".


----------



## Sofia Cooper

moataz123 said:


> jojo,  you are inventing the forum rules or you don't know the forum rules??? Is it really written somewhere here that: "this is essentially a British Expat forum".


I was wanderng if it a British Expat forum why there a people joing from the same country ? ,, is it so they can give general advice or do you find it mainly biased as i have 
And already i have to offer of help coming in ,,,,iam wandering wether to discard the information he left , or wander wether he maybe he is a genuine Egyptian man who wants nothing more to do but help


----------



## moataz123

Sofia Cooper said:


> I was wanderng if it a British Expat forum why there a people joing from the same country ? ,, is it so they can give general advice or do you find it mainly biased as i have
> And already i have to offer of help coming in ,,,,iam wandering wether to discard the information he left , or wander wether he maybe he is a genuine Egyptian man who wants nothing more to do but help


You can't take your information from one source and one place. This is the power of a forum, you hear 10 or 15 opinion and compare. But to depend on a one of the "Ah not so genuine" man from the same country is not wise. Even if his intention is to only help, his personal opinion maybe wrong.


----------



## jojo

moataz123 said:


> jojo,  you are inventing the forum rules or you don't know the forum rules??? Is it really written somewhere here that: "this is essentially a British Expat forum".





Here are two of the rules which you obviously need to read.



> don’t discuss moderator or admin actions in the forums. If you have a matter to discuss please pm or email us.
> 
> All posts on this site must be in English


That latter kind of suggests that yes, this is indeed a British forum, or at least an english language forum.


Jo


----------



## jojo

Sofia Cooper said:


> I was wanderng if it a British Expat forum why there a people joing from the same country ? ,, is it so they can give general advice or do you find it mainly biased as i have
> And already i have to offer of help coming in ,,,,iam wandering wether to discard the information he left , or wander wether he maybe he is a genuine Egyptian man who wants nothing more to do but help



You'll have to be the judge of that, but if you think these offers are genuine and made out of kindness from another expat female, or even an egyptian female with your best interests at heart......????????. All I know is that I had to remove my skype details when I was the moderator on "Egypt" cos I had so many offers of "help" and "friendship" and I wasnt even moving to Egypt lol!!!!! ... and out of all the countries and forums that I mod, Egyptian men were the only ones who not only felt I needed friendship and help, but the only ones who went to the trouble of constantly skyping me, messaging me...!!???? So it does make one question whether stereotyping/reputation is deserved in some cases!!?????

Jo xxx


----------



## Sofia Cooper

moataz123 said:


> Actually I think you are out of subjects and repeating yourself over and over. Ok, everybody understood, hurray, Egyptian men are bothering people in this forum, Egyptian men are the worst in all the forums, Egyptian men are trying to hook up with foreign women, Egyptian men are sending phone numbers to women here because they think they are bad women ...... etc etc etc. Understood, Egyptian men are not genuine. Bravo, nice observation. Then what??
> 
> Ah, and the Egyptian women got a share too, they are "trying to contact" you to meet her and her sister for coffee? Actually how this brilliant observation would make benefit for the expats in Egypt?
> 
> Giving that the Egyptian men are bad, and that they created the unique super ability to send their phone numbers to foreign women in this forum, then we can easily understand that the Egyptian men are forbidding the Egyptian women to show their faces to foreign beautiful women here, and that those horrible men put their women in coffins at night, and in a rare occasion when an Egyptian female would escape this very tight siege, they don't dare to be seen alone with another woman drinking coffee. Shame on you.
> 
> My advise for our brilliant observers here: find a subject that really can make a benefit for the expats trying to live in this country.


WELL all i tried to do over the past few days since joining here was to defend Egyptian men !!!!!!!! but guess what it all got blown out of proportion,,,by not just expats but also Egyptian men themselves !!!! what a joke .....


----------



## jojo

moataz123 said:


> Actually I think you are out of subjects and repeating yourself over and over. Ok, everybody understood, hurray, Egyptian men are bothering people in this forum, Egyptian men are the worst in all the forums, Egyptian men are trying to hook up with foreign women, Egyptian men are sending phone numbers to women here because they think they are bad women ...... etc etc etc. Understood, Egyptian men are not genuine. Bravo, nice observation. Then what??
> 
> Ah, and the Egyptian women got a share too, they are "trying to contact" you to meet her and her sister for coffee? Actually how this brilliant observation would make benefit for the expats in Egypt?
> 
> Giving that the Egyptian men are bad, and that they created the unique super ability to send their phone numbers to foreign women in this forum, then we can easily understand that the Egyptian men are forbidding the Egyptian women to show their faces to foreign beautiful women here, and that those horrible men put their women in coffins at night, and in a rare occasion when an Egyptian female would escape this very tight siege, they don't dare to be seen alone with another woman drinking coffee. Shame on you.
> 
> My advise for our brilliant observers here: find a subject that really can make a benefit for the expats trying to live in this country.



Its an issue that is discussed from time to time thats all

Jo x


----------



## Sofia Cooper

jojo said:


> You'll have to be the judge of that, but if you think these offers are genuine and made out of kindness from another expat female, or even an egyptian female with your best interests at heart......????????. All I know is that I had to remove my skype details when I was the moderator on "Egypt" cos I had so many offers of "help" and "friendship" and I wasnt even moving to Egypt lol!!!!! ... and out of all the countries and forums that I mod, Egyptian men were the only ones who not only felt I needed friendship and help, but the only ones who went to the trouble of constantly skyping me, messaging me...!!???? So it does make one question whether stereotyping/reputation is deserved in some cases!!?????
> 
> Jo xxx


mmm a very interesting point you made about the fact it was only the Egyptian men who felt you needed their help and freindhsip ....i have noticed this on other sites, and wandered if it was genuine help they were offering or what .....i guess trust no one as i never do and just find my own way in Egypt ....


----------



## Sofia Cooper

jojo said:


> I'll also add that when I was moderating the Egypt forum, I actually had to remove my skype link and my blonde profile picture as I had several men from Egypt trying to make contact - nowt wrong in that you might say. just being friendly?? but I found their needy tenacity alarming, their obvious opinion of blonde western women a little insulting (stereotype????) and it was only men from Egypt!??????
> 
> Jo xxx


WELL WELL WELL ...i have most certainly been a little nieve here ...as i know they can be persistant but to be sooooo persistant is disrespectul not only to blonde woman but to all !!!
So it goes back to the differant cultures and society as a whole ....when a woman says no ,,,, she means NO !


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Why anyone would say there is nothing wrong with that astounds me, we never get any Egyptian women trying to contact us other than through You could meet me and my sister for coffee... yeah right.


Well.........

Don't mean to be pessimistic, but just like how persistent "some" of the Egyptian males are, they can be so creative sometimes........ For example..... NOT EVERY Egyptian "female" online means that she is a female for real...... And yes, sounds crazy and......weird? But I know what I'm talking about, couple of female friends of mine learned that fact, the hard way! 

Good luck!


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> WELL WELL WELL ...i have most certainly been a little nieve here ...as i know they can be persistant but to be sooooo persistant is disrespectul not only to blonde woman but to all !!!
> So it goes back to the differant cultures and society as a whole ....when a woman says no ,,,, she means NO !


Hi there,

That's what's meant by the term "cultural" difference.......

In Europe..... No means no, at least in the English speaking countries!!

But in here, No means "You should try harder" :lol:

MaidenScotland suggested you to remove your contact info and you did, my suggestion?? Your pic should be next.....Will save you some hassles for sure! Unless you wanna wait till you HAVE to do it like Jojo said happened to her!

Good luck!


----------



## MaidenScotland

Enough is enough


----------

