# When not believing becomes a problem....



## clarkr (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi guys,

Just thought I'd offer a comical interlude to everyone and share my kafka-esque experience with the Dubai authorities.

Like many expats, I like a tipple within reason, and was conscious of the need for a liquor licence.

I applied for it a couple of weeks ago and today had the following email:

"Please be informed that your alcohol licence application was rejected due to "No Religion" in the CID records, you're therefore requested to have the status changed in the Immigration Department of Naturalization & Residency, once done please give us a call to re-submit your application."

I immediately put my head in my hands, sighed under my breathe, and thought to myself - what on earth is the issue? Then my mind wondered.....


.....Is it illegal to be an athiest in Dubai? Or just not an option on the drop down menu?

.....Is it illegal for athiests to drink in Dubai?

.....If I go over there and try and explain the situation to them, what do I say if they say "you are not allowed to not have a religion", how do I prove I do not believe? What is belief anyway?

.....Am I effectively going to have to lie and say I am a Christian in order to get my liquor licence? Isn't that ironic?

Ah the questions are endless!

Anyway, I'll probably have to put my religion down as something or other, it just made me chuckle....


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
You can put what you like on the form - but if you want an easy life, I suggest you simply put Christian.
I would not suggest any of the following:- Muslim, Jeddi, Jewish - as any of these are likely to cause a bit of bovver with your application!
Cheers.
Steve


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## clarkr (Aug 12, 2014)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> You can put what you like on the form - but if you want an easy life, I suggest you simply put Christian.
> I would not suggest any of the following:- Muslim, Jeddi, Jewish - as any of these are likely to cause a bit of bovver with your application!
> Cheers.
> Steve


Muslim, Jeddi and Jewish... in that order as well 

Can't have a drunkard wielding a lightsabre can we


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

Came across a lot of this. You get used to the 'Fine, what-evvah!' because it's just easier that way. I think if you're white, you're just assumed to be christian. 

Applying for the wife's residence premit and at the typing centre:
"Please check her details and sign at the bottom if you agree"
"It says she has a basic education, can you please change this to masters degree?"
"That's just standard sirrr, don't worry about it"
"It says housewife, not allowed to work, she will be working pretty soon"
"That's just standard sirrrr"
"It says christian, can you take that off because we're not religious?"
"That's just standard sirrrr"

So what's the point in checking the paperwork? Why am I even here? Why not just assume the whole lot, call her Jumeriah Jane and be done with it.

I'm probably down as a christian on my database entry despite never having been to a church apart from a wedding/ funeral and not holding any particular belief in anything other than 'be nice to each other'. Wouldn't even say I'm atheist, agnostic would probably best sum it up.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Jedi was a reminder of the British census that used to be done every 10 years.
At the last census, many people put Jedi on their forms!
Cheers
Steve


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## iggles (Jan 4, 2015)

you live in the UAE why make life difficult for yourself.

You might lie to yourself and the form that your a Christian and not an atheist, but why even bother putting that your an atheist. You know how things work here, stop making life difficult for yourself and just do things how they want and get it done.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Jedi was a reminder of the British census that used to be done every 10 years.
> At the last census, many people put Jedi on their forms!
> Cheers
> Steve


Apparently it's a religion and with the amount of lightsabers we have in our house, I think I'm raising the next Luke Skywalker!


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## clarkr (Aug 12, 2014)

Yes I do recall that Jedi thing coming up in the UK census - i think in order for that to happen at least 10k people had to put it down. The force must have been strong that day

Diblington, I had exactly the same with my wife, she is categorised as a housewife...

The sensible person inside me says just put down christian and be done with it, the devil inside me says go and have an existential conversation with whichever poor emirati clerk happens to be on duty when i turn up with my theistic (or lack of) conundrum - obviously try very hard to not get deported in the process


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## iggles (Jan 4, 2015)

I believe in the book of iggles - you will all convert one day.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm not religious but I'm still perceived as culturally Christian by the Islamic world, which isn't far off mark despite not frequenting many churches in my lifetime. The idea that someone can have no religion isn't one that is easily understood in the Islamic world where religion is the defining element of the culture and influences almost everything about it.

Are you white and of European ancestry? You may not go to church but do you celebrate Christmas and have Easter dinner? You're culturally Christian. Mark yourself down as Christian on the forms and forget about it.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

clarkr said:


> The sensible person inside me says just put down christian and be done with it, the devil inside me says go and have an existential conversation with whichever poor emirati clerk happens to be on duty when i turn up with my theistic (or lack of) conundrum - obviously try very hard to not get deported in the process


Bluntly - you would be wasting your breath.


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## Dibblington (Apr 20, 2015)

Agreed.

It's like getting wound up by bad driving, you can spend all day getting wound up, and all of next week if you want, and all of next year too. But what will it achieve other than raising your own blood pressure?

They're not going to change the system for you Clarkr.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

It's not only UAE. Atheism is not officially recognised by majority countries. I am not practicing Christian but as I was raised in the Christian family and celebrate annual christmas events, I just put Christian for the God's sake since being atheist is not an apparent option.

Wait until your wife deliver at the hospital here and on the newborn registration form you will be asked about religion of your just born baby  I know it's stupid but it is as it is.


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## aleleeson (Jun 10, 2015)

i remember this form, i have no idea what i'm registered as but i remember that my husband wanted to put christian and i said "no no just put other, what if whoever looks at the form doesnt like christians?" i dont know, it wasnt really my fear of the person who would process the form it just feels weird to lie about some like religion... lol and they say a lack of religion could lead to loose morals 

the form where were asked about religion was a form from HR though, not anything offical, so hopefully if no religion causes issues they would have lied for us regardless of what we answered.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

I scrawl CofE, I want to write Agnostic, but I just KNOW it wouldn't go through....


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
When my son was admitted to hospital aged one with severe effects of Chickenpox we had to complete a form that included his religion.
I am Roman Catholic and my wife is Hindu.
For fun I stated that our son was Roman Hindu - and it has stuck ever since.
We always write that on forms as his region!
Cheers
Steve


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi, When my son was admitted to hospital aged one with severe effects of Chickenpox we had to complete a form that included his religion. I am Roman Catholic and my wife is Hindu. For fun I stated that our son was Roman Hindu - and it has stuck ever since. We always write that on forms as his region! Cheers Steve


And that's how easy it is to create a new religion .


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Christmas is a Pagan festival, it has nothing to do with the birth by a virgin who was impregnated by a ghost....


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Islam doesn't recognize any other religions other than Christianity & Judaism.

I don't recommend you go and tell them you are atheist. They could charge you with religious contempt. I know that might sound ridiculous to all of you, but when in Rome, just do as the romans do. 

As everyone advised just put christian.


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## clarkr (Aug 12, 2014)

A.Abbass said:


> Islam doesn't recognize any other religions other than Christianity & Judaism.
> 
> I don't recommend you go and tell them you are atheist. They could charge you with religious contempt. I know that might sound ridiculous to all of you, but when in Rome, just do as the romans do.
> 
> As everyone advised just put christian.


Thanks all for the advice, I will got and put Christian - which if I am being honest is probably the closest thing I have to a "cultural religion" as TallyHo put it. I do buy Xmas presents for family, I have been in a church (throughout my schooling eg, assemblies and the like) more often than I have been in a mosque (never, apart from as a tourist). 

Reading a number of these comments, I am beginning to see the importance of religion as a means of cultural identity - transcending the simple notion of believing in something or not. Its as much a heritage, like ethnicity or nationality - as it is a faith.


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## meks (Jun 22, 2015)

Obviously the cultural aspect they are referring, rather than pure theological preferences.


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## Timlandbutsybhoy (Jun 10, 2015)

tell them sorry you had a few tipples and you are protestant that should work


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

They do it, because Muslims are not allowed to get a license. Just put Christian down and be done with it - I hate having to write it, but at the end of the day it just saves hassle and bother.


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## Made in Sheffield (Mar 12, 2014)

When my husband applied for his first licence about 4 years ago, it seemed to take ages to come through (even with Dubai standards) so he called them up to ask why.

He was told that his application got rejected because his Visa records stated that he was Muslim! 
He is down as a Christian on all official docs and has a very common British name. 

Must have been a case of "computer says no"


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is totally legit though.


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## ReefPony (Jun 22, 2015)

Fat Bhoy Tim said:


> Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is totally legit though.


Funny. I was actually about to ask whether Pastafarian is an acceptable religion in the UAE.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

ReefPony said:


> Funny. I was actually about to ask whether Pastafarian is an acceptable religion in the UAE.


Groan!


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## ReefPony (Jun 22, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> Groan!


I'll take that as a "NO!".


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

in the muslim world, islam is not just beliefs and rituals but a way of life and muslims cannot comprehend what others in the west have started to take for granted - that people can actually be "indifferent"...

its like if an asian guy migrated to canada and got citizenship now insisting that he is no longer asian...


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## Byja (Mar 3, 2013)

Made in Sheffield said:


> He was told that his application got rejected because his Visa records stated that he was Muslim!
> He is down as a Christian on all official docs and has a very common British name.


Is it Barry?


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