# Dangerous dog act in Spain



## wobbles64 (Jun 12, 2014)

Hi, we are in the process of relocating to Madrid area and we have 2 rescue dogs which we are bringing with us. 1 is a Staffie and the other a Staffie cross. I've read that staffies are considered a dangerous breed by the Spanish authorities, what does this mean for our guy ? Does he have to wear a muzzle or are there restrictions on allowing him off lead. He's a lovely dog ( it's the owners not the breed ) and very friendly, I'd hate to have to muzzle him. Can anyone help answer my concerns ? Thanks


----------



## melissa20001 (Jan 15, 2013)

Yes, of course. PPP (perros potencialmente peligrosos) must be leashed and muzzled in public areas at all times. They also must be chipped and you must get a license from city hall. To get the licence you must present 1. criminal record check 2. certificate of physical condition 3. certificate of psychological condition 3. civil liability insurance of 120,000 euros. The fines for not doing so are quite stiff.

You also must have residency before you can get the license, so don't bring your dogs over until you do.


----------



## wobbles64 (Jun 12, 2014)

So muzzled at all times whilst out on walks, even if we are in the countryside. Is he not allowed to run off leash at all ?


----------



## melissa20001 (Jan 15, 2013)

The legislation says "public spaces". I would interpret the countryside to be a public space. The legislation compares public spaces to private spaces such as a house, country house, terrace, patio, etc., where the dogs must be tied unless the space is closed off from people approaching the house. 

This is the law: BOE.es - Documento BOE-A-2002-6016


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

A neighbour in our urbanisation has an American Staffordshire, and other neighbours have complained to the police because it doesn't wear a muzzle when being taken through the patio where children regularly play. It makes them nervous. The police have been round twice, but the neighbour didn't open the door so the police went away. That's about as far as it went.

Make of it what you will, but my conclusion is that if the breed is classified as dangerous, keep a muzzle on it when it is around people as a courtesy to your neighbours. Even if you are completely responsible, and the dog is completely safe, they are not to know that. Even if the reality is the police won't do anything about it.


----------



## wobbles64 (Jun 12, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, I would be as courteous as I am here where I never allow children to approach the dogs or visa versa and I give people space when walking with our dogs because I understand this breed scares people etc plus you can never be fully confident of a dogs reactions. 
But I wanted to be sure what the actual legislation was, the last thing I want to do is be ignorant of the law and have my poor guy confiscated or something and PTS. I don't really want to muzzle him when he's in the country away from the public but also would not risk loosing him because he's a victim of his breeding being categorised dangerous. 
So thank you for clarifying the law.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback and a Cane Corso. The RR isn't on the Andalucian list of Dangerous Dogs and the Cane Corso appears on the list our dog shelter vet has but not on the one I found on the internet.
This is rather silly in our case as the Cane Corso has few teeth - she is a rescue dog, was used as a puppy machine and is very timid. The RR weights 54 kilo of muscle and is gentle and friendly although he would rip the guts out of anyone daft enough to threaten either of us or break into our house(Ridgebacks are like that). We know that to be true as he almost caught a burglar who leapt a 2m wall to escape his foaming jaws!

We have done everything required in terms of chip, passport, vaccinations, insurance up to 300k euros, registered wit the Junta....but have been unable to register the RR as a dangerous dog as neither our vet or the police consider him to be one! In Andalucia you need a vet to be involved in the process of registration. 
Our vet gazed at our Ridgeback in admiration, stroked him and said : 'He no dangerous dog. I know dangerous dog. She' - pointing to small Yorkie under her desk - 'she dangerous dog'!' and laughed.
The police were equally unhelpful, merely asked loads of questions about his breed, age, what we fed him on (burglars and small children) and cheerfully wave at us when they see us walking him.

You need to be sensible and considerate of others as I'm sure you are. We use a CannyCollar for both dogs when walking in public places as this gives excellent control and serves as a muzzle. We let them run free on the campo or early morning/late evening beach out of the summer season where they play with other friendly dogs but if we see a dog on a lead we put ours on their leads out of courtesy.

Which is more than I can say for many owners of small dogs who rarely have them on a lead and allow them to run all over the place and foul pavements and public spaces. Our RR has been bitten several times by small dogs and has not retaliated but if he did of course it would be his fault and not that of the owner of the small dog who is yakking on her phone while her little treasure sniffs at Azor's bits.

So comply with the rules and be sensible. The rules are not as forbidding as they might seem, as Chopera pointed out.


----------



## wobbles64 (Jun 12, 2014)

Brilliant, thanks for your reply. we do all those things, if we see a dog we are unfamiliar with we leash ours, detour etc and never let them roam anywhere but the open fields. It's the owner not the breed. AND yes small dog owners are the worst and our staffie has been harrassed many times by a little yapper. lol. 
Our Staffie was badly beaten and tied up half starved, he hates wearing his harness and a muzzle was not something I wanted to have to use on him as he's so docile and loving. I guess we'll get one but will tailor our accommodation so we have close by countryside so we aren't having to go into many public areas with him, not because we don't trust him but because we don't want someone's reaction to bring the police to the door. I feel a little better after reading your reply , thank you .


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

wobbles64 said:


> Brilliant, thanks for your reply. we do all those things, if we see a dog we are unfamiliar with we leash ours, detour etc and never let them roam anywhere but the open fields. It's the owner not the breed. AND yes small dog owners are the worst and our staffie has been harrassed many times by a little yapper. lol.
> Our Staffie was badly beaten and tied up half starved, he hates wearing his harness and a muzzle was not something I wanted to have to use on him as he's so docile and loving. I guess we'll get one but will tailor our accommodation so we have close by countryside so we aren't having to go into many public areas with him, not because we don't trust him but because we don't want someone's reaction to bring the police to the door. I feel a little better after reading your reply , thank you .


Get a CannyCollar which will function as a muzzle but isn't so enclosed. You have total control with the Canny.
Since coming here six years ago I've found that although rules and regulations seem harsh and restrictive when seen on paper, in practice if you are sensible and considerate asyou clearly are and once you get known in your barrio you are unlikely to encounter problems.
Our Cane Corso was thin, bedraggled and timid when wenfirst brought her home. Some **** had kicked her leg and broken it...she wasso terrified that if we raised our voice even very slightly she peed.
People can be so cruel.


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

When we moved to Spain 9 years ago we knew nothing about the dangerous dogs list. We had an Akita and a Westie. We took the dogs to the vet etc. who said nothing apart from why had we had the Akita castrated. The first we knew was when we tried to put them in the kennels and they asked about our licence. The kennels were very good and said that they would phone our town hall for us to tell them that we needed the licence for the dog, (our Spanish was terrible at this time). They phoned us and told us to go to the town Hall as they had spoken to them, and that the dog could stay in the kennels as the wheels were in motion. After several visits to the Town Hall with little success in anything progressing the Mayor knocked on our door one day and asked to see the dog. He loved the dog and was asking us questions about did we have any problems with the dog in the UK. We showed him photos of Blackjack when he was in the UK as he used to be a hospital dog visiting sick people. He said this dog is not dangerous he doesn't need a license, gave us a piece of paper and said the licence is not necessary. We never had a licence for him and were never questioned. Saying that we live in a small village where everyone knows everyone.


----------



## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

It breaks my heart to read about this cruelty to dogs. What sort of monsters, are these people, to cause such suffering to helpless animals ?? 

It is common courtesy to be a responsible dog owner - to clear up after your animals, large or small, to keep them on the lead etc, etc.....never allowing them to be a nuisance to other people & their dogs !

Unfortunately, many dog owners - both in the UK & here in beautiful La Cala - do not comply with this.

My Spanish chihuahua, Chico, aged 16 months has been trained not to be yappy - his only fault ! Now, when told to stop - he continues with soundless barks...lol

My vet will never treat him without a muzzle....not because of him personally - but she has received some very nasty bites from this breed, in the past. This from owners who treat these dogs like babies & never use the "No" word !

I would like to get another small dog, a female, younger than my own, from a rescue centre - but am unable to find one that is chihuahua size. 

The 'small' dogs advertised are generally large medium size....


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

*"It's not the breed, it's the owner"* is rubbish.

All dogs no matter how well brought up will go into attack mode if *they think* they, their owner or territory is threatened.

We have two rescues both in the small dog class, both of them pure bred Heinz tending to some form of terrier. The older one, Rubio, who looks like a smaller version of a Golden Labrador was found lost in the snow about 50km away from here and generally makes more noise than anything. The younger one was found in the village with a broken leg from where he had been shot - he is beyond description (aptly named of Scruffy), is the sweetest gentlest animal you will ever find, once he knows who you are, but otherwise... - he is the typical small man.

If another dog that they don't know (especially one running loose) comes along then it is a case of very short lead and hold on tight, not only to the lead but to something solid otherwise you are going to be taking part in the chase.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> *"It's not the breed, it's the owner"* is rubbish.
> 
> All dogs no matter how well brought up will go into attack mode if *they think* they, their owner or territory is threatened.
> 
> ...


What you say about dogs could also be said of humans, though, Baldy. Just like dogs, humans too can be aggressive for no apparent reason.

However...as a female, I know which species I should be more wary of...and it isn't the four-footed variety. 'Tis he who keeps me safe from the two-footed predator.

If you think about it and consider how dangerous the human male is, as a species, there could be a strong case not for putting men on a lead or muzzling them but certainly for not allowing them out after dark unless in the company of a female of the same species.

Of course there are many exceptions, perhaps the majority of the species are by nature harmless, although they do have a tendency, some of them, to congregate in either organised or informal packs when, especially after consumption of certain strong liquors, they can be quite dangerous even when unprovoked.....


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Yes - I'm not sure about this 'It's the owners' thing.

All types of dog can attack big, small whatever.

I have one dog (a puppy) who just loves everybody and everything and another who is all mouth and aggression but has never bitten nor attacked anyone and I don't think would.

The third has attacked a Husky, a GSD and a Boxer and I am now wary of her around other dogs. She weighs 2.5 kilos.

The one thing about small dogs is that they are less DANGEROUS than big dogs. 

:bolt::behindsofa:


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> What you say about dogs could also be said of humans, though, Baldy. Just like dogs, humans too can be aggressive for no apparent reason.
> 
> However...as a female, I know which species I should be more wary of...and it isn't the four-footed variety.  'Tis he who keeps me safe from the two-footed predator.
> 
> ...


You should be ashamed of yourself, making those sexist comments.  I can think of a number of the female variety to whom your remarks would apply equally and often are much more dangerous and vicious.


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

My Vet in the UK said the word Terrier is derived from the word Terrorist!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> You should be ashamed of yourself, making those sexist comments.  I can think of a number of the female variety to whom your remarks would apply equally and often are much more dangerous and vicious.


I cannot deny the truth of your words......thinking especially of a particular blue-feathered bouffant variety, with shrill persistent tone, the mate of which is more subdued with lesser plumage on the head and often found at watering places....now extinct.


----------



## wobbles64 (Jun 12, 2014)

Aw thanks guys, as we are being relocated by the company they have a relocation dept so I've raised with them that I will require both dogs to be registered ' legally ' etc so hopefully they will do all that. I should video my boy playing with a staffie, boxer, a lab and american bulldog, all together in the field like they have been today so I can produce it to show he's friendly. I feel much better now and am sure once the locals see we are responsible and control them both there won't be any issues, fingers crossed. My main consideration now is the best way to get them both over, air or road, cost isn't the issue it's finding the least stressful route. Thanks again for all the info.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Cazzy said:


> My Vet in the UK said the word Terrier is derived from the word Terrorist!


I think he was having you on. Terrier comes from "_earth digger_" and they were often used for digging out other animals when hunting, e.g. rabbits, badgers, etc. so they do tend to have a bit of an aggressive streak.


----------



## wobbles64 (Jun 12, 2014)

Hi Baldilocks
What I meant by saying ' it's the owners not the breed' is that generally the attacks which have made people so fearful of Terrier breeds and led to the categorisation of 'dangerous' breeds generally stem from careless and irresponsible ownership and uncontrolled, irresponsible breeding / inbreeding , unfortunately the average pond scum prefer staffies as status symbols to fluffy mongrels but have no desire to be responsible for the correct care of such dogs.
I also wrote that you can never be sure of a dogs reactions, dogs are individuals and as such you cannot generalise and say one breed is more vicious than another.
All dogs can be unpredictable but under the control of responsible, considerate owners who don't leave dogs alone with children, don't allow them to approach other people or animals unchecked etc the incidents which cause people / other animals injury are far less likely to occur so I stand by my ' owners not breed' comment, rubbish though it may be to some.


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I think he was having you on. Terrier comes from "_earth digger_" and they were often used for digging out other animals when hunting, e.g. rabbits, badgers, etc. so they do tend to have a bit of an aggressive streak.



It was a joke Baldilocks due to their behavior!


----------

