# Garraf�n



## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

*Garrafón*

My doctor claimed that Cristal and Bonofont water have the lowest salt content. I don't know whether this is baloney or not, they all say 0%, but perhaps they're all rounding down and some do have more salt than others.

Anyway, I tried to take an empty epura garraphone in and the oxxo had crystal garraphones for sale. They wouldn't take the empty because it didn't match the brand. It seemed like they might have had some epura garraphones somewhere there too but I didn't seem them and wasn't interested. I figured I'd just take my empty home too.

Then they said a cristal garraphone without a return was 70 pesos! The epura with return would have been only 28.

So is that right, do the empties really go for 40 pesos?

I ended up coming home with my empty, I knew there was another empty at my apartment but not what brand it was - turns out it's epura too, so that's no help.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Garrafon. Garraphone sounds like some new kind of tech toy.

Yes, the empty containers carry a hefty deposit.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

All stores are picky about the empty as they cannot return it to their vendor if it isn't their brand and they lose the deposit. Ciel is common here, find the brand most easy to use in your particular area.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

There are lots of places where you can get garrafóns refilled. They refill with purified water, accept any brand and charge about 10 pesos to refill a 19 liter garrafón.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

eastwind said:


> My doctor claimed that Cristal and Bonofont water have the lowest salt content. I don't know whether this is baloney or not, they all say 0%, but perhaps they're all rounding down and some do have more salt than others.


Getting to absolutely zero salt content is likely nearly impossible, when the retail cost is just over a peso per liter, or even less than a peso per liter.

My water is Bonafont, it is delivered in 20 liter containers. The handyman in my building manages delivery, less than one day turnaround. He charges 25 pesos (if you hand him your empty container), I think he makes a profit, which is fine, he even carries the delivered full container to your front door without expectation of a propino (I tried, he refused). 

Since eastwind I believe you live in a condo, I am a little surprised your building does not have something similar.

.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks for fixing the subject spelling.

There is an Oxxo and another oxxo-competitor 20 yards away, so I was trying to carry my own water. I don't want to try to haul a garrafón on the bus. I think I will just pay the deposit for a new cristal garrafón once and then I can keep exchanging that at the oxxo for the brand I like.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

UrbanMan said:


> Getting to absolutely zero salt content is likely nearly impossible, when the retail cost is just over a peso per liter, or even less than a peso per liter.
> 
> My water is Bonafont, it is delivered in 20 liter containers. The handyman in my building manages delivery, less than one day turnaround. He charges 25 pesos (if you hand him your empty container), I think he makes a profit, which is fine, he even carries the delivered full container to your front door without expectation of a propino (I tried, he refused).
> 
> ...


They do, but they expect a tip for the service on top of the cost of the water, which is 30 pesos, and when I gave him 70 last time he pulled a face like that wasn't enough, and then the next time when I called down and ordered a replacement it mysteriously didn't come. So they apparently are expecting 100 pesos for cost plus tip, and I can carry my own water 20 yards for that and get the brand I want to boot.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

eastwind said:


> So they apparently are expecting 100 pesos for cost plus tip, and I can carry my own water 20 yards for that and get the brand I want to boot.


I would carry my water if my handyman was expecting 100 pesos.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Zorro2017 said:


> All stores are picky about the empty as they cannot return it to their vendor if it isn't their brand and they lose the deposit. Ciel is common here, find the brand most easy to use in your particular area.


Yes, this. Just bite the bullet and pay the 70 pesos the first time for water + container, and after that you can exchange the empty container for a full one _of the same brand_, and from then on you only have to pay the lower price, for the water alone.

For hauling it, get yourself a little folding _diablito_. Medium to large hardware stores should carry them.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I don't hesitate drinking the water, making ice and coffee from our well, my wife prefers bottled to drink.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I got tired of shlepping 6-liter garrafones of water several blocks and up three flights of stairs, so last year I invested in a wonderful water filtration system from a company called Nikken. I just pour tap water in the top, and in a couple of minutes, it's ready to drink!


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> I got tired of shlepping 6-liter garrafones of water several blocks and up three flights of stairs, so last year I invested in a wonderful water filtration system from a company called Nikken. I just pour tap water in the top, and in a couple of minutes, it's ready to drink!


Probably just a good. A lot of bottled water with exotic names is sucked out of the Houston Ship Channel and filtered. They are required to list the source on the bottle, or they were. Cozumel sucks up seawater and pushes it through a membrane system.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

maesonna said:


> Yes, this. Just bite the bullet and pay the 70 pesos the first time for water + container, and after that you can exchange the empty container for a full one _of the same brand_, and from then on you only have to pay the lower price, for the water alone.
> 
> For hauling it, get yourself a little folding _diablito_. Medium to large hardware stores should carry them.


Similarly, I have a 2 wheeled grocery cart that is sturdy enough to haul a garrafón. My old one was wire frame and barely up to it, but the one I have now works fine. The diablito shown above by Maesonna costs $690 at Home Depot. The grocery cart I use cost about $400. It is somewhat enclosed making it good for other things as well, but harder to put a garrafón in than a regular diablito.


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## dwwhiteside (Apr 17, 2013)

I do not remember what we paid initially to get the garrafons. We currently get our water in garrafons from Santorini. We used to get Ciel but, in this neighborhood, their schedule was not as regular as Santorini.

The Santorini truck comes by on Wednesdays (like today) and Saturdays. They bring the new garrafons through the front door and all the way into the pantry where we store them. They take the empty ones with them. The cost is $25 MXN per garrafon and we have never tipped the driver / delivery person. However, we do on occasion purchase some of the small water bottles or other promocional items being offered. I think the delivery guys are paid extra to sell the specials.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

This in only practical if you own your home: The first year, I kept track of the cost of using the garafons. Then, I checked the cost of a whole-house purification system and finally, went with that.
End result: I can drink the water from any faucet, and the shower water is clean as well.
It was much cheaper than having bottled water delivered. You can run those figures as well and come to your own conclusions.
Add to that the rumor or truth that the purity of some of the bottled water is very doubtful.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

In my neighborhood, I noticed today that the water purification place is only 6 blocks from me. And one day each week, they have a special, they will fill an empty garon for only 9 pesos (normal price 11 or 12 pesos, cannot remember which). If I take care of it in the morning (carry the fully garafon back before it gets hot), it should be fine.



lagoloo said:


> The first year, I kept track of the cost of using the garafons.
> 
> whole-house purification system
> 
> It was much cheaper than having bottled water delivered.


Do you live somewhere, where having water delivered is expensive? Or is the purification system just fairly cheap?

In my neighborhood, I noticed today that the water purification place is only 6 blocks from me. And one day each week, they have a special, they will fill an empty garafon for only 9 pesos (normal price 11 or 12 pesos, cannot remember which). If I take care of it in the morning (carry the fully garafon back before it gets hot), it should be very doable.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

UrbanMan said:


> In my neighborhood, I noticed today that the water purification place is only 6 blocks from me. And one day each week, they have a special, they will fill an empty garon for only 9 pesos (normal price 11 or 12 pesos, cannot remember which). If I take care of it in the morning (carry the fully garafon back before it gets hot), it should be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, it's not particularly expensive, and a number of companies are in competition. It just adds up over time to the point where the purification system was less. 
BTW, those garafons are way too heavy for a smallish woman to hoist and haul home. You must be in good shape. Enjoy!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

UrbanMan said:


> In my neighborhood, I noticed today that the water purification place is only 6 blocks from me. And one day each week, they have a special, they will fill an empty garon for only 9 pesos (normal price 11 or 12 pesos, cannot remember which). If I take care of it in the morning (carry the fully garafon back before it gets hot), it should be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, it's not particularly expensive, and a number of companies are in competition. It just adds up over time to the point where the purification system was less. 
BTW, those garafons are way too heavy for a smallish woman to hoist and haul home. My esposo's back isn't up to it, either. You must be in good shape. Enjoy!


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Just dump them and buy new ones


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> Just dump them and buy new ones


???

That mystified me. But actually it is not a bad suggestion sometimes. I have two garafons that I have been refilling for about 8 years now. Lately I have started getting some algae growing in them by the time they are empty. I have dealt with it by rinsing them with chlorox before refilling but it is only partly effective. Maybe it is time to scrap them and start with a couple of new ones.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

A lot of people have the "porta garrafones" that they just turn the garrafon upside into. I'm amazed at how almost no one washes down the top half of the jug, which is in your drinking water, with a bleach solution. The trucks drive around all day with those jugs getting covered in street dust (you can imagine what that consists of), not to mention the delivery guys grabbing them by the top with their less-than-sterile hands.

I have a clear glass "porta garrafon", not one of those ceramic decorated ones. I can see the water. I used to buy from my local bottling plant (I'm all for supporting the locals, not big business) but I noticed that their water formed a green scum on the bottom within a couple of days, especially in the summer months. I switched to Ciel, which remains clear.

Tundra Green-8 years is WAY too long to be using the same plastic jugs. Plastic breaks down and gasses off. Into your water. Toxic. I just trade in my empties for full ones, and always make sure the bottles I get look fairly new and clear, not old and cloudy.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

TundraGreen said:


> ???
> 
> That mystified me. But actually it is not a bad suggestion sometimes. I have two garafons that I have been refilling for about 8 years now. Lately I have started getting some algae growing in them by the time they are empty. I have dealt with it by rinsing them with chlorox before refilling but it is only partly effective. Maybe it is time to scrap them and start with a couple of new ones.


Or maybe you can trade them in for different ones.

A couple months ago I had a bad experience with my garrafon. When it was down to about 3L left, I looked one day and there was a small colony of tiny ants swimming around on the surface of the water inside the garrafon. Who knows how much contaminated water I'd drunk! I don't know whether their eggs were in there when I bought the garrafon or whether they squeezed in the crack between the garrafon and the stand. 

Anyway, down the drain when the last 3 liters, and I went back to buying water by the 1.5L bottle at the grocery for a while. 

I ended up hatching a plan, so to speak, of saving enough empty smaller containers to completely drain a garrafon. I went with 1.5L bottles because those are a little less ungainly and fit in my fridge better. So now when I buy a new garrafon I immediately fill 13 1.5L bottles with a half liter left in number 14. The caps are nice and tight and bugs don't get into them while they're sitting on the counter or in the fridge getting chilled.

I havent' found any ants swimming in my 1.5L bottles, so I'm assuming they got into the garrafon from the side rather than being included free by epura. But that's another reason I wanted to buy cristal instead of epura, just in case.

If I switch from renting to owning, I'd definitely invest in at least a counter-top filtration system, but when I'm always under the possibility of moving again in a year I don't want to accumulate stuff, even counter-top appliances.

And I'm sure it was ants, not mosquitoes. I have been battling the tiniest little ants that some call sweet ants and others call paver ants. In the states they live outside, underneath rocks and pavement, and come inside attracted by anything sweet or water in dry season. There are apparently some living in the walls of this high-rise condo and I take various measures to beat them back but with so many neighbors it's not a winnable war. The main strategy is to not leave things out that they want.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

surabi said:


> Tundra Green-8 years is WAY too long to be using the same plastic jugs. Plastic breaks down and gasses off. Into your water. Toxic. I just trade in my empties for full ones, and always make sure the bottles I get look fairly new and clear, not old and cloudy.


Does out gassing really get worse with age. I thought plastic did that even when it was new, maybe especially when it is new.

But I am going to swap them for full ones, then go back to refilling.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Understandable that you wouldn't want to drink ants, or water they had been swimming around in, but I doubt that it would be dangerous to your health. They are food in some countries.

In the summer months, when it's raining hard almost every night, I don't even buy drinking water- I put my garrafons under the water spout that comes off my upstairs balcony and it fills in about 3 minutes. I wait until it has been pounding rain for at least half an hour so any dirt on the balcony is long washed off. That rain water tastes great, stays crystal clear, and it has certainly never made me sick. I figure it's probably safer than the water that comes from the bottling places.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

TundraGreen said:


> Does out gassing really get worse with age?


It does for most people ainkiller:


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> Does out gassing really get worse with age. I thought plastic did that even when it was new, maybe especially when it is new.
> 
> But I am going to swap them for full ones, then go back to refilling.


Not really sure, to my knowledge plastic gasses off constantly, new or old. But I know they advise not just using one of those small litre water bottles over and over again. 

If you think the garrafons are heavy now, I remember when they were all glass! Healthier, no doubt, but no way to lift it unless you're a beefy guy.

I usually hump my garrafons into the kitchen, tip it to pour the water into a glass litre pitcher, and fill my container like that. When it's half full, I can lift it. I use the lid that came with the porta garrafon when it's full, and stash the big jug under the counter. I can't stand looking at the ugly plastic garrafon, ruins my kitchen decor.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

TundraGreen said:


> I have two garafons that I have been refilling for about 8 years now.


The good news is they haven't been riding around on trucks, which beats them up and exposes them to sunlight (sun on plastic can sharply accelerate the degrading).

But sure, get a couple of new ones, and then you'll be set until 2020 or so ..


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> ...Lately I have started getting some algae growing in them....


If you think back a few years you'll probably remember seeing a black cloth bag covering the office water carboy. The bag stops algae growth or, at least, hides it. As an old sourdough you must know that looks aren't everything, the best looking water comes from that giardia infested mess behind the beaver dam.

If your algae problem has just recently started I'd be wondering a bit about the water supplier, too.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Another suggestion: At places like Home Depot, they sell reverse osmosis water filtering units that can be attached under the sink. There is a special dispenser spout above and the water is nice and clear.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Zorro2017 said:


> I don't hesitate drinking the water, making ice and coffee from our well, my wife prefers bottled to drink.


I'm curious as to whether you have 'tested' your well water or how often if you have.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

RickS said:


> I'm curious as to whether you have 'tested' your well water or how often if you have.


People, particularly children aren't getting cancer here like in Guanajuato from the well water. Wells here produce water very shallow unlike where the problems are occurring in Mexico where they have depleted the water and have to drill deeper and deeper. I trust my well more than any municipal water supply. When there is a problem with the water in a particular area you do see indications of it in the health of the local people.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you have a well, do you also have your own sewage disposal system, and is it at least 30 M away from the well? If not, you should always have bottled water for your guests & other visitors.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you have a well, do you also have your own sewage disposal system, and is it at least 30 M away from the well? If not, you should always have bottled water for your guests & other visitors.


Yes it is plenty far away. My well is deeper than most just because I built our house on the highest spot of the land. The Earth is a great filtration system, I had a well in Texas. When a city I lived in forced everyone to use the municipal supply one guy turned it off and continued to use his well. When he got a water bill he went to the city refusing to pay it, what were they going to do, turn off his water? I don't think any city has the right to mandate that you drink their water unless there is an immediate threat to life and health, even then they really can't enforce it.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

UrbanMan said:


> In my neighborhood, I noticed today that the water purification place is only 6 blocks from me. And one day each week, they have a special, they will fill an empty garafon for only 9 pesos (normal price 11 or 12 pesos, cannot remember which). If I take care of it in the morning (carry the fully garafon back before it gets hot), it should be very doable.





lagoloo said:


> You must be in good shape.


I was definitely breathing hard by the time I got back home. It was actually 4 blocks. That was long enough.

I was able to watch them thoroughly clean my empty garrafon, before filling it. Multi-step process. Reassuring.




surabi said:


> A lot of people have the "porta garrafones" that they just turn the garrafon upside into. ….....I have a clear glass "porta garrafon"


Mine is blue-tinted clear glass.

Do you clean your porta garrofon often? With just good ol' soap and water?


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

UrbanMan said:


> Mine is blue-tinted clear glass.
> 
> Do you clean your porta garrofon often? With just good ol' soap and water?


After about 3-4 garrafons worth of water going through it (more often in the summer hot months), I clean mine out with a bit of bleach and water, tipping it in the sink so the bleach solution runs through the spigot. Then I rinse it with the purified water, before re-filling.

I once took the spigot apart because it wasn't working properly. What I found inside it was truly disgusting- a thriving colony of black, green and red molds. That's why I pour the bleach solution through it now, and actually change out those plastic spigots once or twice a year.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

We use a pump that fits into the garrafon top, battery powered. No inverting the bottle or cleaning the tank. No water remains in it so no mold grows inside.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Zorro2017 said:


> We use a pump that fits into the garrafon top, battery powered. No inverting the bottle or cleaning the tank. No water remains in it so no mold grows inside.


I use to use a manual pump that fit on the top of the bottle. Now I have a stand that allows you to tip the bottle. I have never liked the idea of inverting the garrafón. 

Where I use to work, we had one of those dispensers where you had to tip the bottle upside down. It was the job of an old man who cleaned the place to replace the bottle whenever it was empty. One day when he tried to tip the bottle up into the dispenser, he lost control of it and dropped it on the floor where it cracked and spread 19 liters of water. Everybody had to stop work and help mop up. After we had cleaned up most of the water and put all the desks back in place, he tried again to put a bottle in the dispenser and dropped it again. So we went through the whole drill all over.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Available at Home Depot, makes life easier.

BOMBA ELECTRICA DE AGUA PARA GARRAFON en http://www.homedepot.com.mx/


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

For some of us, there's the matter of aesthetics. Personally I find having a plastic garrafon in my kitchen way too ugly. That's why I use a porta garrafon. I don't turn the garrafon upside down on top of it- I pour the water in and stash the garrafon.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

surabi said:


> For some of us, there's the matter of aesthetics. Personally I find having a plastic garrafon in my kitchen way too ugly. That's why I use a porta garrafon. I don't turn the garrafon upside down on top of it- I pour the water in and stash the garrafon.


Ours is out of sight in a pantry.


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## curlyMarcia (Nov 27, 2017)

I also find the garrafons to be kind of ugly. What a great idea, I will also hid it in the pantry. i just have to convince my husband, who used to have all of our three garrafons in the kitchen because he want to save trips from the garage.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

curlyMarcia said:


> I also find the garrafons to be kind of ugly. What a great idea, I will also hid it in the pantry. i just have to convince my husband, who used to have all of our three garrafons in the kitchen because he want to save trips from the garage.


We had our carpenter build another smaller cabinet to house the microwave, small electric oven and other items. The bottom is enclosed hiding the garrafon, detergent and fabric softener. This freed up the food pantry.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

Zorro2017 said:


> We use a pump that fits into the garrafon top, battery powered. No inverting the bottle or cleaning the tank. No water remains in it so no mold grows inside.


Do you really believe it regularly gets completely dry? If not, its still possibly a nice environment for growth.



surabi said:


> a plastic garrafon in my kitchen way too ugly.


I'm not advocating this particular product, just providing the link as an example.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/189717113/black-chevron-5-gallon-water-bottle


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

UrbanMan said:


> Do you really believe it regularly gets completely dry? If not, its still possibly a nice environment for growth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have to wait for it to drain before you remove the glass, after you release the button, the flow stops, then as air enters the tube, the rest dribbles out.

If not, I'm just not that big of a germophobe and don't worry about such things, we have a better chance of getting Zika, Dengue or any number of other parasites living in Mexico. I've eaten tacos at roadside stands here that would make an FDA inspector pass out. If a person is that worried about mold growing inside of a spigot I'd advise them* never to eat out anywhere*, most tourist detinations including Cozumel and Playa Del Carmen have beach bar and Fifth Avenue restaurants with cockroaches you could saddle and ride. 

The person that discovered the mold growing in the spigot of the garrafon in this thread suffered no ill effects, they just noticed a decrease in the flow of their water.

In my opinion I think that people north of the border worry too much about such things and pamper their immune systems to the point that they are _more_ susceptible to diseases by over avoiding exposing themselves to the natural environment. 

None of us are getting out of here alive.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I'm sure my kitchen faucet never drains either as it goes up.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I have to agree with Zorro on the whole over emphasis on antibacterial/antimicrobial everything NOB. Of course as a doctor I’m very aware of the importance of proper hygiene, hand washing, sanitation, etc. But overly sanitized homes and lack of exposure to dirt and nonpathogenic microbes, especially in childhood, has likely led to a marked increase in autoimmune diseases and allergies NOB. Balance is called for - don’t throw caution to the wind, but don’t become paranoid, either. Exposure to most microbes makes the immune system more resilient. The trick is to avoid the nasty ones 🤢.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> I have to agree with Zorro on the whole over emphasis on antibacterial/antimicrobial everything NOB. Of course as a doctor I’m very aware of the importance of proper hygiene, hand washing, sanitation, etc. But overly sanitized homes and lack of exposure to dirt and nonpathogenic microbes, especially in childhood, has likely led to a marked increase in autoimmune diseases and allergies NOB. Balance is called for - don’t throw caution to the wind, but don’t become paranoid, either. Exposure to most microbes makes the immune system more resilient. The trick is to avoid the nasty ones ��.



As a doctor I'm interested in your opinion on flu shots now that the mercury, aluminum and other neurotic ingredients are being called into question. Is it worth the risk of injecting these substances directly into your body considering they just guess at which strain might be coming this season, or is it profit driven?


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

ojosazules11 said:


> But overly sanitized homes and lack of exposure to dirt and nonpathogenic microbes, especially in childhood, has likely led to a marked increase in autoimmune diseases and allergies NOB.


I thought it was overprescription of antibiotics, the eating of overprocessed foods, and women having babies later in life?



ojosazules11 said:


> Exposure to most microbes makes the immune system more resilient. The trick is to avoid the nasty ones 🤢.


So I should put a little sign by my garrafon, saying, "Nasty Microbes Not Welcome!"?? Since I am in Mexico, it should be in Spanish?

I believe I'll give the spigot a thorough cleaning least monthly.


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## dwwhiteside (Apr 17, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> As a doctor I'm interested in your opinion on flu shots now that the mercury, aluminum and other neurotic ingredients are being called into question. Is it worth the risk of injecting these substances directly into your body considering they just guess at which strain might be coming this season, or is it profit driven?


I will admit that I am a flu shot skeptic. I do not believe I have ever had a flu shot and I have no plans to get one anytime in the foreseeable future. However, I found a nice article that seems to do a pretty good job of explaining why it might make sense for some people to consider getting an annual flu shot.
https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/flu-shots-facts-fallacies/


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I missed mine this year, and would like to get it.

Where can one get a flu shot in Mexico at this late date?


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> As a doctor I'm interested in your opinion on flu shots now that the mercury, aluminum and other neurotic ingredients are being called into question. Is it worth the risk of injecting these substances directly into your body considering they just guess at which strain might be coming this season, or is it profit driven?





dwwhiteside said:


> I will admit that I am a flu shot skeptic. I do not believe I have ever had a flu shot and I have no plans to get one anytime in the foreseeable future. However, I found a nice article that seems to do a pretty good job of explaining why it might make sense for some people to consider getting an annual flu shot.
> https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/flu-shots-facts-fallacies/


I hadn’t responded earlier as I wanted to make sure my response covered several aspects of the “flu shot issue”. Fortunately dwwhiteside found an article which pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Great article, by the way! Yes, do it for Grandma - this especially applies to kids. Vaccinating kids against flu has the best bang for the buck in terms of keeping everyone else healthy, little vectors that they are. And as she says, you can’t get flu from the flu shot, serious side effects are much less common from the shot than from the flu itself, and no I’m not worried about the negligible amount of mercury - it’s about the same amount of elemental mercury as in a can of tuna. Nevertheless, if given the option of a mercury (thimerosal)- free vaccine, I’ll take that. The thimerosal is used as a preservative in multidose vials, not present in the vaccines which comí in single dose units (like the ones currently in my clinic’s vaccination fridge). 

In terms of it being profit-driven, in Ontario it is universally covered by our Ministry of Health. That was a cost analysis decision several years ago, as studies showed a clear decrease in use of health care utilization, especially emergency room visits and hospitalization, when more of the population was vaccinated. This didn’t even take into account lost productivity and absenteeism due to influenza. The studies were done by Public Health and Infectious Disease doctors, not ones generally considered to be in the pockets of big Pharma.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> As a doctor I'm interested in your opinion on flu shots now that the mercury, aluminum and other neurotic ingredients are being called into question. Is it worth the risk of injecting these substances directly into your body considering they just guess at which strain might be coming this season, or is it profit driven?





dwwhiteside said:


> I will admit that I am a flu shot skeptic. I do not believe I have ever had a flu shot and I have no plans to get one anytime in the foreseeable future. However, I found a nice article that seems to do a pretty good job of explaining why it might make sense for some people to consider getting an annual flu shot.
> https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/flu-shots-facts-fallacies/


I hadn’t responded earlier as I wanted to make sure my response covered several aspects of the “flu shot issue”. Fortunately dwwhiteside found an article which pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Great article, by the way! Yes, do it for Grandma - this especially applies to kids. Vaccinating kids against flu has the best bang for the buck in terms of keeping everyone else healthy, little vectors that they are. And as she says, you can’t get flu from the flu shot, serious side effects are much less common from the shot than from the flu itself, and no I’m not worried about the negligible amount of mercury - it’s about the same amount of elemental mercury as in a can of tuna. Nevertheless, if given the option of a mercury (thimerosal)- free vaccine, I’ll take that. The thimerosal is used as a preservative in multidose vials, not present in the vaccines which come in single dose units (like the ones currently in my clinic’s vaccination fridge). 

In terms of it being profit-driven, in Ontario it is universally covered by our Ministry of Health. That was a cost analysis decision several years ago, as studies showed a clear decrease in use of health care services, especially emergency room visits and hospitalization, when more of the population was vaccinated. This didn’t even take into account lost productivity and absenteeism due to influenza, which also is reduced when more people are vaccinated. The studies were done by Public Health and Infectious Disease doctors, not ones generally considered to be in the pockets of big Pharma.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> I hadn’t responded earlier as I wanted to make sure my response covered several aspects of the “flu shot issue”. Fortunately dwwhiteside found an article which pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Great article, by the way! Yes, do it for Grandma - this especially applies to kids. Vaccinating kids against flu has the best bang for the buck in terms of keeping everyone else healthy, little vectors that they are. And as she says, you can’t get flu from the flu shot, serious side effects are much less common from the shot than from the flu itself, and no I’m not worried about the negligible amount of mercury - it’s about the same amount of elemental mercury as in a can of tuna. Nevertheless, if given the option of a mercury (thimerosal)- free vaccine, I’ll take that. The thimerosal is used as a preservative in multidose vials, not present in the vaccines which come in single dose units (like the ones currently in my clinic’s vaccination fridge).
> 
> In terms of it being profit-driven, in Ontario it is universally covered by our Ministry of Health. That was a cost analysis decision several years ago, as studies showed a clear decrease in use of health care services, especially emergency room visits and hospitalization, when more of the population was vaccinated. This didn’t even take into account lost productivity and absenteeism due to influenza, which also is reduced when more people are vaccinated. The studies were done by Public Health and Infectious Disease doctors, not ones generally considered to be in the pockets of big Pharma.


Thank you for your response, I like getting input from different sources.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

surabi said:


> A lot of people have the "porta garrafones" that they just turn the garrafon upside into.


I dismantled and cleaned my porta garrafon thoroughly. The container itself and all parts. The spigot, which is white plastic, had no visual evidence of anything growing. 

I used water with a dash of bleach in it. There was a bleachy smell, and I was once told you get that smell only when the bleach is reacting with something. So I think it was worth it to do it.

I rinsed it with purified water afterward. let it air dry for roughly an hour, then wiped everything with paper towels.

I intend to repeat every 4-6 weeks.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

bleach smells like bleach especialy when you put too much of it .


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

UrbanMan said:


> I dismantled and cleaned my porta garrafon thoroughly. The container itself and all parts. The spigot, which is white plastic, had no visual evidence of anything growing.
> 
> I used water with a dash of bleach in it. There was a bleachy smell, and I was once told you get that smell only when the bleach is reacting with something. So I think it was worth it to do it.
> 
> ...


As far as I am aware, you are correct- bleach will smell bleachy when it is interacting with bacteria. This was told to me by my daughter and son-in-law who ran a hot-tub and pool store. They said if the pool smells strongly of chlorine, that means there is bacteria that it is working on. A pool with no bacteria will not have a chlorine smell.


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