# Dogs of winter



## Bloke47 (Jun 12, 2016)

I will be living in Estepona with my dog from October 2016 to April 2017. Having seen some comments on the web I am starting to get concerned. Please can anyone tell me;-
1) if dogs are allowed on the beaches in the off season?
2) are the restaurants and bars dog friendly?
Thanks
Bloke47


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bloke47 said:


> I will be living in Estepona with my dog from October 2016 to April 2017. Having seen some comments on the web I am starting to get concerned. Please can anyone tell me;-
> 1) if dogs are allowed on the beaches in the off season?
> 2) are the restaurants and bars dog friendly?
> Thanks
> Bloke47


:welcome:

This shows the beaches in Spain where you can officially take your dog. Locals will tell you where you might be 'unofficially' able to go, but there's always a chance you could be prosecuted if you do so

https://www.homeaway.es/info/ideas-para-vacaciones/guias-consejos-alojamientos/Vacaciones-con-perro/playas-perros


As for bars - again, officially dogs aren't allowed into bars & restaurants, for the same reasons as in the UK. Most are happy to allow you to take your dog onto an outdoor terrace though. 

What comments have you seen that have worried you?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

As I understand it dogs are allowed on Estepona beach between 1 October and 31 May. Certainly when I was there a on holiday a couple of years ago, in the first week of October, there were plenty of canines enjoying a dip.


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## Bloke47 (Jun 12, 2016)

*Dogs of Winter*

Thanks for your reply. I spent last winter in Torremolinos and we were welcomed in most bars etc. but having booked to stay in Estepona I have read that dogs are not allowed on beaches or in most bars etc. I'm now wondering if I should have gone back to Torremolinos
Bloke1947


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Bloke47 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I spent last winter in Torremolinos and we were welcomed in most bars etc. but having booked to stay in Estepona I have read that dogs are not allowed on beaches or in most bars etc. I'm now wondering if I should have gone back to Torremolinos
> Bloke1947


Where did you read that dogs aren't allowed on the beach out of season? That's very unusual for Spain.

I'm sure you'll find yourself a dog-friendly local, even if it's not in the more touristy areas.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It's down to common sense and consideration for others. We walk our dogs on the beach all the year round but in summer only very early or late when our little village beach is deserted. It's too hot to walk them at other times from June to October anyway.
We always pick up after our dogs....unlike the many horse riders who enjoy a trot or gallop along the beach.
There's a sign saying 'No dogs' (ignored by everyone) but none saying 'No horses'.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Bloke47 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I spent last winter in Torremolinos and we were welcomed in most bars etc. but having booked to stay in Estepona I have read that dogs are not allowed on beaches or in most bars etc. I'm now wondering if I should have gone back to Torremolinos
> Bloke1947


Estepona is very different from Torremolinos. There are a couple of dog parks in the town, dogs are allowed at outside tables in bars and cafes - who sits inside when the sun's shining? - and I think Manilva, just down the road, has a part of the beach reserved for dogs.


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## Bloke47 (Jun 12, 2016)

Thanks, I find it annoying when dog owners don't pick up so I can understand how non dog owners feel. As for the horses thing, it does amaze me (even though I know the arguments as to why) that horses seem to be able just do their thing wherever they want and just trot along on there merry way. Anyway thanks again for your reply


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

In Ireland, I own a dog and I am a responsible dog owner. However, in the south of Spain when I am there, I see dogs relieving themselves everyday on public walks. Usually, the owner ignores the performance. And if you "tick" the owner for such irresponsible behaviour be prepared for a tirade of abuse. I am against capital punishment, but am prepared to make an exception for irresponsible dog-owners.

Leaving dogs occupy any area of a restaurant (inside or outside) is criminal. On a weekly basis I see unmuzzled and untied alsatians resting in a restaurant by the door to the childrens play area. Occasionally, I have seen dogs barking and snapping at the children. The dog owners seem to drink away heartily while the rest of the clientele sit in fear. Somebody might point out, then why go to such a restaurant. I don't anymore. The situation is a disaster waiting to happen and it will sooner or later.

Then you have the gob****e who leaves his dog run freely on beaches. The dog "performs" leaving ****e nearly everywhere. The owner at this stage is walking furtively away from the beach, with no notion whatsoever of cleaning up after the dog and just waits for the dog to follow.
I don't know how the general public tolerates such behaviour. I don't have a solution to the foregoing other than a rigorous campaign by police to prosecute such owners. The quicker, the better.

Many dog owners behave responsibly, please note this is not directed towards them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dogs inside bars/cafes, no. 
Outside with responsible owners....what's the problem?
Quite often horses or goats pass through the streets of our village, marking their passage....do their owners pick up? No. Do they get prosecuted? Rarely if ever.
Fine all irresponsible owners of all animals. My dogs don't like having to pick their way through steaming piles of horse manure.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Dogs inside bars/cafes, no.
> Outside with responsible owners....what's the problem?
> Quite often horses or goats pass through the streets of our village, marking their passage....do their owners pick up? No. Do they get prosecuted? Rarely if ever.
> Fine all irresponsible owners of all animals. My dogs don't like having to pick their way through steaming piles of horse manure.


Strange dogs you have as most dogs I have ever seen will happily shove their nose into the first pile of ****e they see.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

VFR said:


> Strange dogs you have as most dogs I have ever seen will happily shove their nose into the first pile of ****e they see.


Not strange, just well- trained.
You are confusing them with politicians.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

"What is the problem with dogs being allowed onto the terraces of restaurants?"

Newsflash Guys! A dog allowed onto the outside terrace of any restaurant/bar carries the same risks as a dog being allowed inside the restaurant/bar.

I would advise anybody visiting such places in Spain to make a learned decision not to enter such establishments. Giving business to such restaurant/bar owners is only feeding the problem.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Leper said:


> "What is the problem with dogs being allowed onto the terraces of restaurants?"
> 
> Newsflash Guys! A dog allowed onto the outside terrace of any restaurant/bar carries the same risks as a dog being allowed inside the restaurant/bar.
> 
> I would advise anybody visiting such places in Spain to make a learned decision not to enter such establishments. Giving business to such restaurant/bar owners is only feeding the problem.


Nonsense! What 'risk'? Any dog in a public place should be muzzled. Our dogs are trained not to foul in public places.
There are far more people than dogs that shouldn't be allowed inside or outside of bars or restaurants - indeed, some people shouldn't be allowed out at all.
I wouldn't take my dogs to Magaluf and similar places. Too many untrained people who do unspeakable things in the streets. I don't want my well-brought-up dogs exposed to such awful goings-on...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> "What is the problem with dogs being allowed onto the terraces of restaurants?"
> 
> Newsflash Guys! A dog allowed onto the outside terrace of any restaurant/bar carries the same risks as a dog being allowed inside the restaurant/bar.
> 
> I would advise anybody visiting such places in Spain to make a learned decision not to enter such establishments. Giving business to such restaurant/bar owners is only feeding the problem.


In this part of Spain most people seem to be dog lovers. We ask if dogs can be taken to a terraza and 90% of the time I reckon we can, but sometimes it's just not suitable - not enough shade, not enough room. This is not in Madrid city.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Whenever I am in Mojacar I walk extensively. On a daily basis I come across many mangy, hairy, filthy, ungroomed people (and sometimes even some well groomed people) walking their dogs. In my eleven years of part-time residence in Spain, I cannot remember seeing even one dog wearing a muzzle.

Furthermore, if bringing a dog onto an outside terrace where food is served is acceptable, why is it not acceptable to bring the dog inside the restaurant? (Let's stick with the truth here!) 

In Ireland (and I bet, in the UK too) it is not acceptable to bring a dog to any sports field indoor or outdoor. This is even if the facility is not even being used.

In Ireland the law states that the person walking the dog must be in control of the dog at all times and must assume responsibility for anything untoward happening. Unfortunately, this does not happen all of the time. 

Don't get me wrong. I am a dog owner and I know what dogs are capable of doing and causing. Never a year goes by without some unsuspecting person being savaged by a dog in the UK. This can happen anywhere especially where there are irresponsible dog owners. It is time to wake up and smell the coffee.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Leper said:


> Whenever I am in Mojacar I walk extensively. On a daily basis I come across many mangy, hairy, filthy, ungroomed people (and sometimes even some well groomed people) walking their dogs. In my eleven years of part-time residence in Spain, I cannot remember seeing even one dog wearing a muzzle.
> 
> Furthermore, if bringing a dog onto an outside terrace where food is served is acceptable, why is it not acceptable to bring the dog inside the restaurant? (Let's stick with the truth here!)
> 
> ...


Most of what you say is true but doesn't amount to an argument against allowing dogs in or outside of cafes.
Yes, there are irresponsible owners. There are also irresponsible car owners. Just as some dog owners allow their dogs to foul and don't obey the leash and muzzle laws, some car drivers drive whilst over the alcohol limit, use phones whilst driving and drive vehicles without ITVs and which pollute because of lack of maintenance.
So by your logic we should ban cars as much more real harm to people and the environment is caused by them.
As for people being 'savaged' by dogs...yes, it happens, although rarely. In almost every case the dog has been kept in poor conditions, badly fed and untrained with owners with dodgy pasts.
Fact is, more women and men are attacked and sometimes murdered mainly by men.
So as we can't ban men, muzzle them or put them on leads, perhaps by your logic the solution is to curfew them, an idea I suspect many women would enthusiastically support......


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> Whenever I am in Mojacar I walk extensively. On a daily basis I come across many mangy, hairy, filthy, ungroomed people (and sometimes even some well groomed people) walking their dogs. In my eleven years of part-time residence in Spain, I cannot remember seeing even one dog wearing a muzzle.
> 
> Furthermore, if bringing a dog onto an outside terrace where food is served is acceptable, why is it not acceptable to bring the dog inside the restaurant? (Let's stick with the truth here!)
> 
> ...


I'd find a different place to walk my dog!
I see completely nomal people walking their dogs. People that I later see at the butcher's, taking the kids to school and buying pasta in Mercadona..
Not all outdoor cafés welcome dogs, not all of them should welcome dogs, but there are probably enough for each one to choose where they want to go.
I can't remember when I last saw a problem with a dog in a terraza and the only problem I've seen is low key growling to another dog which can easily be brought to a swift end.
I've never seen dogs pee or poo on a terrace, although I suppose they might:confused2:. The two biggest potential problems I think would be the dog getting in the way of the serving staff inwhich case they have to say something or kids maybe teasing the dogs (perhaps not realising it) which is the resposibility of the parents and the dog owners.
Anyway, as I said if somebody finds it distasteful, dirty, dangerous or otherwise I think the answer is go sit elsewhere. One thing Spain's not short of is places to have a beer/ coffee
And if your usual dog walk is filled with people you find strange again, change your habits. There's always another place to walk the dog too.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'd find a different place to walk my dog!
> I see completely nomal people walking their dogs. People that I later see at the butcher's, taking the kids to school and buying pasta in Mercadona..
> Not all outdoor cafés welcome dogs, not all of them should welcome dogs, but there are probably enough for each one to choose where they want to go.
> I can't remember when I last saw a problem with a dog in a terraza and the only problem I've seen is low key growling to another dog which can easily be brought to a swift end.
> ...


Well said.... I often wonder why people focus on dogs...Our beach is often embellished with great steaming piles of horse manure yet the notice board which has signs prohibiting nearly all the things people go to the beach for doesn't have any mention of horses.
The village street is frequently rendered more decorative and fragrant with piles of horse manure and goat droppings. 
Yet people choose dogs to complain about......
We really love our dogs, like most people who have them as companions ( I know we have to use the word 'owner' but it doesn't seem right) but we do everything we can to minimise any nuisance they might cause. Sadly the same can't be said about children....all too often a quiet cafelito or tubo is ruined by screeching children who run amok whilst their parents chat away unaware of the disturbance they cause to others.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

The fact that it seems ok for horses beggars belief. Same where I live, house is on a bridle way and at times I have had to pick up the dog so he doesn't walk through it. despite this there are notices all over threatening fines for dog owners who do not scoop it up.

We are rural and most pubs allow dogs in but not in the restaurant parts. In a nearby village even the Costa coffee allows dogs but asks not to allow them to sit on chairs. Worse in France where I have seen dogs in restaurants sat on a banquette between the owners and being fed off their plates. Our local chiringuito doesn't allow dogs but the owner has two scruffy terriers wandering all over the place, including the kitchen


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We have never encountered any restrictions regarding dogs (our dogs) on the terraces of bars or restaurants and, in fact, on one occasion in Córdoba, when the weather was less than hospitable, we were told to take the dog (we only had one then) inside with us. If we happen to be in Fuengirola and have a fish and chip lunch (such decadence), we sit on the terrace and the dogs are under our table sitting patiently and quietly - they even get supplied with a bowl of water.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> The fact that it seems ok for horses beggars belief. Same where I live, house is on a bridle way and at times I have had to pick up the dog so he doesn't walk through it. despite this there are notices all over threatening fines for dog owners who do not scoop it up.
> 
> We are rural and most pubs allow dogs in but not in the restaurant parts. In a nearby village even the Costa coffee allows dogs but asks not to allow them to sit on chairs. Worse in France where I have seen dogs in restaurants sat on a banquette between the owners and being fed off their plates. Our local chiringuito doesn't allow dogs but the owner has two scruffy terriers wandering all over the place, including the kitchen


It's all irrational.....
I can't imagine allowing either of our dogs to sit on a chair in a café or anywhere including our home. I'm not allowed to sit on our white leather sofas unless I put a cover down first....
Anyway, Azor would need a sturdy Chesterfield to stretch out. As for feeding dogs at table
I don't wish to run the risk of being labelled a Francophobe (if there isn't such a thing yet there's bound to be soon) but the French seem to go to soppy extremes over their dogs. Most restaurants seem to allow dogs and I've seen a lot of dogs decorated and bedecked with frills, fancy collars, little dresses even. Our Little Azor a politically incorrect and very butch and macho dog, would no doubt consider them to be a bunch of woofters.
As I said, we love our dogs but like children they need discipline and rules as well as love. Newspapers and tv make a lot of fuss about dog attacks but in nearly every case the offending animal, that often gets put down, has been kept cooped up on a rundown council estate and either totally neglected or trained in aggression by some pimply skinny thug. When did you last hear about a savage attack by a 'middle class' dog? I'm not being snobbish here, just stating facts.
Nothing to do with breed or size of dog either. If I remember correctly the last such fatal attack on a child was by a Jack Russell. I was once bitten by a Jack Russell...
This is a bit of a rant, true, but I'm sick of people who give wary glances or mutter snide remarks when we pass with our two admittedly very large but well-behaved and docile dogs. If I actually hear a remark like 'Why would anybody want big dogs like that?' I reply 'Don't worry, we've already fed them and they only have top-quality meat'.....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I reply 'Don't worry, we've already fed them and they only have top-quality meat'.....


If we encounter kids who have been brought up to fear dogs, I usually tell them 
"No te preocupes, estos perros no comen los niños crudos; Sin embargo, si estaís cocinados ..."


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Animals in Food Premises

Can I bring my pet dog or cat into a food business, such as a shop, café or restaurant?
No. Under national and EU food hygiene legislation pet dogs and cats are generally not permitted in any food premises. An exception however is made for guide, assistance or companion dogs. 

Operators of food businesses are obliged under Regulation (EC) No 852/2004 (Annex II Chapter IX) to ensure that:

‘Adequate procedures are to be in place to control pests. Adequate procedures are also to be in place to prevent domestic animals from having access to places where food is prepared, handled or stored (or, where the competent authority so permits in special cases, to prevent such access from resulting in contamination).’

In addition, operators of food businesses are also obliged under the Food Hygiene Regulations 1950-89, which are still in force, to ensure that dogs are not allowed into food premises with the exception of assistance dogs, and cats are only allowed where it can be shown that proper precautions are in place. 

The above is a snippet from EU Directives regarding animals on premises where food is being prepared, handled etc.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I cannot see the argument for dogs being allowed onto any terrace where food is served. I have seen dogs urinate,growl, bark, attack people in such areas. I have seen waiters/waitresses/bar-staff handling dogs on their premises and even fail to wash their hands before serving food and drink. Customers have a right to feel safe in such places. Avoiding such restaurants should not be an option.

The law is there which should prevent people bringing their pets onto such premises. And when some responsible person (like me) brings the subject up the whole subject gets twisted into horse-**** proportion.

When are irresponsible people going to wake up and smell the coffee regarding the dangers of dogs being allowed into places where food and drink are being served?


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