# Resolution of Tax investigation



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Update on my 2016 Black letter:
I recently received an official registered letter from the Spanish tax man. The letter detailed full income from UK for 2016. It detailed mmoney from employer, and money from savings etc. The information was not provided by HMRC as they confirmed that no such activity can take place without notification being given to individual. The hacienda told me I had 10 days to respond to their question as to why I had not submitted a modelo 100 tax declaration. I duly contacted them pointing out that I signed on the padron in October and was therefore not residing in Spain for more than 183 days. I posted on this forum about this and received some replies suggesting that once I indicated that I was intending to live in Spain I effectively made myself a tax resident and would be liable for tax for the whole of that year. I pointed out that that had not been the advice of my Spanish advisor. It was then said that my advisor was wrong and that I potentially could be found liable of tax evasion. Today the hacienda contacted and said that my file is closed. There was no infringement of tax laws as I had proved not to have been present in Spain for over 183 days. So my advice for anyone who is worried about tax in Spain is go to a Spanish speaking gestor/ adviser/ lawyer and dont listen to the advice of us non professional non Spanish speaking expats who probably dont understand these things as well as we think. On a further note the Spanish tax people were very helpful and not at all intimidating so dont be scared to contact them if you need advice.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Thanks for posting! I am in the same situation as you in 2019. I did the empadronamiento during August and can prove that I was not in Spain for greater than 183 days. Like yours, my Spanish speaking gestora told me that I did not need to file in 2019.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

And the same for us, we arrived late August 2020 and the accountant has said that we don't file until 2022 for 2021. 
But he did say to keep any and all paperwork for 2020 as, its usual for the tax man to investigate almost everyone these days.

We were also advised to sign on the Padron as late as possible and with the residency application they would then just bump the investigation back to the tax office to prove we owed money.

Im glad you received a favourable outcome


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I haven't seen anyone else posting about actually being I investigated apart from someone who said it had cost alot in translations. Anyway for years as soon as someone talked about being less than 183 days we all said ah but..... The general assumption was that you were liable for tax as soon as you showed your intention to reside full time in Spain. However, as no one appears to have first hand experience of this I assume it's an over-reading of the rules. The only specific case I know is where the main bread winner claims to be a non tax resident by working more than 183 days in another country whilst their other half resides in Spain- then you are judged to have your financial entre in Spain. Anyway as I said. Don't rely on advice solely given here. Get a Spanish adviser who deals with the hacienda and go with them.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I mostly agree with your assessment of the multiple rules. The first check hacienda would use is the 183 day rule, but if they see someone whou routinely runs close to 183 days, but never quite tips over to the 183, they can use the "centre of economic interest" to catch them out as they are obviously deliberately "avoiding" tax liabilities by careful calendar management.
For people who move from one country to another as a one off, the 183 day rule "should" always prevail.

As I said before, I was in the same situation in 2016 and was given the same advice as you. I have not yet been investigated though. But I now feel more confident if it happens!

Thanks!


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

I was just doing a modelo 030 today to deregister (a very confusing form tbh) and came across the relevant rules so here you go, direct from the hacienda:

_La residencia fiscal se determina por años naturales completos. Por ejemplo, cuando el cambio de la residencia habitual se haya producido en el primer semestre del año, y no haya permanecido más de 183 días en España, la fecha de efectos del cambio de residencia fiscal a un tercer país será el uno de enero de ese mismo año 01/01/AAAA. Si ha permanecido más 183 días en España antes del cambio de residencia habitual a un tercer país la fecha de efectos del cambio a no residente en España sería el uno de enero de año siguiente 01/01/AAAA+1._



Agencia Tributaria: Nueva sede electrónica de la Agencia Tributaria


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes that seems to be how I understand it. If you moved to UK in July 2022 for instance you would be required to submit a modelo 100 the following June 2023 for the whole calendar year 2022. This would mean that if you had made a large CG transaction in UK you could find that spain wants a share of it despite you being resident in UK at time of transaction. All in all it is best to make any move at the beginning of the year to avoid problems


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Which is why we sold in 2013 rented until the following February 2014 before moving, first return 2015 for 2014


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> Which is why we sold in 2013 rented until the following February 2014 before moving, first return 2015 for 2014


Exactly. That way it is clear cut under which tax regime you are connected to and it makes things much easier with less stress. 
It might be the case that many Brits moved last year to get the WA rights and did this at the later half of the year. In theory they should be okay but it would be wise to talk with a tax advisor if you had sold your propert in uk and not paid CGT as the spanish tax man MIGHT assess that as an assest that wasnt taxed in that year. My tax resolution required me to show proof that all savings etc had been taxed in uk before moving to Spain. Anyway advice is the way to go.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

kaipa said:


> Update on my 2016 Black letter:
> I recently received an official registered letter from the Spanish tax man. The letter detailed full income from UK for 2016. It detailed mmoney from employer, and money from savings etc. The information was not provided by HMRC as they confirmed that no such activity can take place without notification being given to individual..........


Just out of interest, were the 2016 figures quoted by the Spanish tax man correct? I wonder were they got their info' from if not from HMRC.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

trotter58 said:


> Just out of interest, were the 2016 figures quoted by the Spanish tax man correct? I wonder were they got their info' from if not from HMRC.


The figures were not exact but in the ball park. I have no idea where they got them. No HMRC as they confirmed that this would have required me being notified so that means it must be my bank. There could be no other way . Just goes to show that they can find money if you have it in UK. I will out of curiosty ask my bank as presumably they need to reveal if they given these details. I know in Sweden the banks automatically contact the hacienda if you are a Spanish resident to report any money.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

HMRC have never informed me before sending on full details of all my UK income. They just pass it on to the TA with no details of tax paid under the DTO, just my gross income. This has resulted three times in my receiving a letter from the TA demanding for each year €6000 tax owing plus €3000 multa for late payment.

I don’t use a gestor or abogado, I hand everything over to a comptable or whatever the correct term is for accountant. I give him all my documents, P60s and he writes a letter to the TA, same letter every time. For this he charges me €50.

So far I’ve had all fines waived and have paid a small amount of tax here plus of course the much higher tax paid to HMRC under theDTO.

in my experience it’s best to use a ‘proper’ accountant.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

Or report and pay the tax to the authorities on time and save €50 for a letter.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> HMRC have never informed me before sending on full details of all my UK income. They just pass it on to the TA with no details of tax paid under the DTO, just my gross income. This has resulted three times in my receiving a letter from the TA demanding for each year €6000 tax owing plus €3000 multa for late payment.
> 
> I don’t use a gestor or abogado, I hand everything over to a comptable or whatever the correct term is for accountant. I give him all my documents, P60s and he writes a letter to the TA, same letter every time. For this he charges me €50.
> 
> ...


I thought that HMRC could pass on details to Spain without informing me but I have spoken to a senior manager at HMRC who tells me that they must contact you if they are doing this. I quite understand your sentiment as it is very unnerving to see all your income recorded gross and being used in a way that suggests that you have been dishonest. And yes you are right - get a knowledgeable contable to do everything for you and dont do a DIY job with inaccurate apps etc.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

tardigrade said:


> Or report and pay the tax to the authorities on time and save €50 for a letter.


I think you rather missed the point. I had already ‘reported’. TA were in error. Hence no fine.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> I thought that HMRC could pass on details to Spain without informing me but I have spoken to a senior manager at HMRC who tells me that they must contact you if they are doing this. I quite understand your sentiment as it is very unnerving to see all your income recorded gross and being used in a way that suggests that you have been dishonest. And yes you are right - get a knowledgeable contable to do everything for you and dont do a DIY job with inaccurate apps etc.


So if this happens yet again I can complain? Thankyou, good to know that🌹🌹


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