# Retirement visa - criminal conviction



## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

Hello,

I am thinking of retiring to Spain. Although I am from the UK, I assume that Brexit will mean that I will have to apply (at some point in the future) for a retirement visa.

My problem is that I have a conviction for a (non violent) offence committed more than 40 years ago. I was sentenced to a small fine.

Does anyone have any knowledge of whether all offences will lead to a rejection or do the Spanish immigration authorities consider the date and nature of the offence?

Many thanks

Archie


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Hi Archie. Welcome to the forum. It's very heartening to hear you keep dreaming of retiring to Spain despite the Brexit vote. The forum has been practically dead of late due to that debate. 

In Canada, not all crimes stay on your criminal record forever - only very serious ones. Is this not the same in the UK?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent - it will not be deleted. Broadly, according to the guidelines from the Association of Chief Police Officers, records of 'recordable' offences (i.e. offences which can be tried in the Crown Court, whether or not they are) should be deleted after 10 years, unless they show that the offender has 3 or more convictions for recordable offences (in which case the record will be kept for 20 years); has been given custodial sentences (in which case the record will be kept for life); has been convicted of indecency, sexual offences, violence, possession of Class A drugs, or trafficking in, importing of or supply of any drug (in which case the record will be kept for life); been found unfit to plead by reason of insanity, or has been sentenced under the Mental Health Acts (in which case the record will be kept for life); been convicted of an offence involving a child or vulnerable adult where the modus operandi indicates that the person deliberately targets such people ( in which case the record will be kept for life).


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## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

thrax said:


> A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent - it will not be deleted. Broadly, according to the guidelines from the Association of Chief Police Officers, records of 'recordable' offences (i.e. offences which can be tried in the Crown Court, whether or not they are) should be deleted after 10 years, unless they show that the offender has 3 or more convictions for recordable offences (in which case the record will be kept for 20 years); has been given custodial sentences (in which case the record will be kept for life); has been convicted of indecency, sexual offences, violence, possession of Class A drugs, or trafficking in, importing of or supply of any drug (in which case the record will be kept for life); been found unfit to plead by reason of insanity, or has been sentenced under the Mental Health Acts (in which case the record will be kept for life); been convicted of an offence involving a child or vulnerable adult where the modus operandi indicates that the person deliberately targets such people ( in which case the record will be kept for life).


Many thanks for your response. 

My question, however, is not about what the UK authorities reveal but about the Spanish Immigration authorities attitude to past convictions. Will a retirement visa be denied whatever the offence and irrespective of the date of conviction?


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## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> Hi Archie. Welcome to the forum. It's very heartening to hear you keep dreaming of retiring to Spain despite the Brexit vote. The forum has been practically dead of late due to that debate.
> 
> In Canada, not all crimes stay on your criminal record forever - only very serious ones. Is this not the same in the UK?


Thank you for your welcome. The position in the UK is similar but, when it comes to visa applications, the questioner will be told that there is a spent conviction without disclosing the details.

So I wondered if anyone knew what the Spanish Immigration authority's attitude is to 'spent' offences.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

archie23 said:


> Thank you for your welcome. The position in the UK is similar but, when it comes to visa applications, the questioner will be told that there is a spent conviction without disclosing the details.
> 
> So I wondered if anyone knew what the Spanish Immigration authority's attitude is to 'spent' offences.


Spent offences, as in those that don't show anymore on your criminal record? Is that what you mean?

My guess is no one on the forum can answer you for every particular offence. Have you tried contacting one of the Consulates of Spain? They would be most informed as to this answer, even if it's to direct you to the proper authorities to ask.


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## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> Hi Archie. Welcome to the forum. It's very heartening to hear you keep dreaming of retiring to Spain despite the Brexit vote. The forum has been practically dead of late due to that debate.
> 
> In Canada, not all crimes stay on your criminal record forever - only very serious ones. Is this not the same in the UK?





AllHeart said:


> My guess is no one on the forum can answer you for every particular offence. Have you tried contacting one of the Consulates of Spain? They would be most informed as to this answer, even if it's to direct you to the proper authorities to ask.


Thanks again for your response.

I was not looking for an answer in respect of every particular offence but just whether, Spanish Immigration has a policy that a conviction for any offence whether 'spent' or not _automatically_ results in denial of a visa.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

archie23 said:


> Thanks again for your response.
> 
> I was not looking for an answer in respect of every particular offence but just whether, Spanish Immigration has a policy that a conviction for any offence whether 'spent' or not _automatically_ results in denial of a visa.


You're welcome, Archie. 

Again, what do you mean by spent?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I am busting to know what you did!!!!


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## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> You're welcome, Archie.
> 
> Again, what do you mean by spent?


When an offence is 'spent' a convicted person is not required to admit to it when applying for jobs. But when an immigration authority asks for a UK criminal record it will be informed that there is a conviction on file. The UK won't disclose the details of the offence because it is 'spent' but the Spanish authorities will be aware there is something on file.


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## Tom1957 (May 1, 2016)

archie23 said:


> The UK won't disclose the details of the offence because it is 'spent' but the Spanish authorities will be aware there is something on file.


SO you could say it was for something very trivial?


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## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

Tom1957 said:


> SO you could say it was for something very trivial?


But what I need to know is whether Spanish immigration would refuse a visa without exception where a person has a criminal conviction (even a spent one).


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## sunnyvee (Jul 12, 2012)

archie23 said:


> But what I need to know is whether Spanish immigration would refuse a visa without exception where a person has a criminal conviction (even a spent one).


I guess what you want is a yes or no answer but this is something no one on here can say for sure. It is entirely at the discretion of the immigration what to overlook or acknowledge. Just ensure you meet the requirements and put in a strong application and pray/hope for the best.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

archie23 said:


> When an offence is 'spent' a convicted person is not required to admit to it when applying for jobs. But when an immigration authority asks for a UK criminal record it will be informed that there is a conviction on file. The UK won't disclose the details of the offence because it is 'spent' but the Spanish authorities will be aware there is something on file.


According to what Thrax said, there are some offences that simply aren't in the UK system - as happens in Canada. So how can the UK police say there is something on file when their files don't have anything? 

If you think about it logically, if someone has a criminal offence of stealing a pen 40 years ago, versus someone who has a criminal offence of armed robbery 40 years ago, there is a difference as to how that will affect your future. So I think, yes, it depends on the offence as to how immigration handles you.

But your question is really simple: Does any criminal offence conviction affect your application for a visa? I don't know, and from the lack of response here I don't think others do either. As I said before, I think you can get a simple answer from one of the Consulates of Spain by contacting them through an email or telephone. Have you tried that? If you find out, it would be great if you could post the answer here for others to know in the future. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! :fingerscrossed:


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## archie23 (Jun 26, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> According to what Thrax said, there are some offences that simply aren't in the UK system - as happens in Canada. So how can the UK police say there is something on file when their files don't have anything?
> 
> If you think about it logically, if someone has a criminal offence of stealing a pen 40 years ago, versus someone who has a criminal offence of armed robbery 40 years ago, there is a difference as to how that will affect your future. So I think, yes, it depends on the offence as to how immigration handles you.
> 
> But your question is really simple: Does any criminal offence conviction affect your application for a visa? I don't know, and from the lack of response here I don't think others do either. As I said before, I think you can get a simple answer from one of the Consulates of Spain by contacting them through an email or telephone. Have you tried that? If you find out, it would be great if you could post the answer here for others to know in the future. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! :fingerscrossed:


The UK system is peculiar. The report sent to a foreign immigration says "No trace" if no conviction is recorded on the system and "No live trace" if there is a spent conviction! In the case of applicants with 'no live trace' the US and Canadian immigration ask the applicant to provide official documents of the offence (which can be requested from the police). As we are about to become non-EU citizens if anyone knew how non-EU citizens were with criminal convictions were treated by Spanish immigration. But, as you say, it seems that no-one on this board has any knowledge.

Thank you for your kind wishes and I will let you know if I find something out.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Archie give us a wee clue was it anything to do with stealing frozen chickens or riding a unicycle naked on a dual carriage way?


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