# Greek rights v human rights



## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

Most of the subscribers/members here at Expat Forum, are fortunate enough to be residents, and some even citizens of the country they have made ''home from home''... but there are also those who have been forced to flee their home country, and are now trying hard to live - in this case - in Greece. Its not a surprise to me how Greece has been trying to put the squeeze on refugees, but it has become more and more a matter of human rights.
The UNHCR supplies Greece with funds for each refugee - along with a directive that they should not be working until they have a residence permit (as in other European countries), but of course - refs here don't receive that funding -so they are forced to try and find work - or perish.
About 18 months ago, the city halls were given a directive (from government) to not allow ANY marriages if one partner was a refugee 
Recently, Greece has disallowed any refugee to obtain a driving license... and a few days ago I found out that refugees are now not allowed to register ownership of a vehicle (even if they already have driving license). 
I want to know about any other issues that refugees and expats have found to be an infringement of their human rights ?


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## The Grocer (May 30, 2010)

Refugees yes, illegal immigrants NO


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## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

So here's the rub ... how can you tell the difference between an illegal immigrant and a refugee? keeping in mind that the UN(HCR) office here in Athens refuses to see people and have informed me that they ''are only here to oversee implimented programs''... so no one is able to obtain ''UN refugee status''. (This status for those who dont know, is the only way a refugee can apply for immigration to Canada, Australia etc.)
To my mind, an immgrant is someone who has set their sights on (Greece as) best country of choice, and came here with that in mind. The refugee, is someone who passed through on their way to try and find a place which would help them and give them their human rights. A refugee in Greece is someone who doesnt want to be here, sometimes even went onto another (safe place) and yet was returned here. Interpol ping pong! I despise the bloody pink-card!


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## ratzakli (May 20, 2012)

I guess the authorities realise that they can't even cope with the problems that their own countryfolk are having so, quite understandably, they haven't got the finances, energy or will to take on the problems of other nations as well.

I know that many people don't accept the "charity begins at home" argument but, personally, I have every sympathy with it. Many of my friends are going through problems that none of the rest of us would want to experience. Some of them haven't been able to pay their electric bills for months and are probably going to be cut off just before winter sets in. They can barely feed their own kids so why on earth should they be concerned about refugees not getting a bloody driving licence?


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## concertina (Oct 18, 2012)

mrsDayLewis said:


> So here's the rub ... how can you tell the difference between an illegal immigrant and a refugee? keeping in mind that the UN(HCR) office here in Athens refuses to see people and have informed me that they ''are only here to oversee implimented programs''... so no one is able to obtain ''UN refugee status''. (This status for those who dont know, is the only way a refugee can apply for immigration to Canada, Australia etc.)
> To my mind, an immgrant is someone who has set their sights on (Greece as) best country of choice, and came here with that in mind. The refugee, is someone who passed through on their way to try and find a place which would help them and give them their human rights. A refugee in Greece is someone who doesnt want to be here, sometimes even went onto another (safe place) and yet was returned here. Interpol ping pong! I despise the bloody pink-card!


hi mrsDayLewis I do think that there is a bigger issue here,we have to acknowledge the fact that no country can realistically keep on taking in peoples from other countries and basically take care of them,give them all their human needs,whilst often denying people who were born and raised there the basic essentials for sustaining their lives.The EC thing is unfortunately forcing their members to do just that,the UK is waiting now for some northern block EC countries to go flooding in like a tidal wave in 2014,but the British do not want to flood in up there,so I ask you,is it a fair distribution of burden and responsibilities on governments and the citizens of those countries whose resources and taxes are already stretched beyond endurance?How can the authorities really know if people are truly running away from a dire situation,or do they want to better the place where they live,find jobs etc..,thats fine,but, how can these people be helped when for example Greek citizens who are unemployed for more than a year cannot have health care or medication and can find very few government homeless shelters when they are thrown out of their homes by the banks.I am not advocating that people should be badly treated when they arrive as refugees as is often happening here in Greece and other countries,thats very wrong and cruel.
There are not enough resources to go round for various reasons and so the doors are starting to be firmly bolted.


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## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

Well ratzaki its because its called being humane... something the Greek people/government know very little about. I've come to understand that the authorities use the monies given by UN and EU for REFUGEES to pay the wages for Greek police... wtf is that all about?
I have very little sympathy for most of the people here - they are finally being forced to live up to their responsibilities.... cant pay the 'lecy bill - Ive lived without winter heating for the past 3 years!!! So, I dont really care what Greeks think about someone getting a driving license or not - but I sure do care what the rest of the free world think of a society which claims to be democratic yet gives less freedoms to a refugee in 2013 than they did to their slaves 3000 years ago!


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## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

concertina said:


> hi mrsDayLewis I do think that there is a bigger issue here,we have to acknowledge the fact that no country can realistically keep on taking in peoples from other countries and basically take care of them,give them all their human needs,whilst often denying people who were born and raised there the basic essentials for sustaining their lives.The EC thing is unfortunately forcing their members to do just that,the UK is waiting now for some northern block EC countries to go flooding in like a tidal wave in 2014,but the British do not want to flood in up there,so I ask you,is it a fair distribution of burden and responsibilities on governments and the citizens of those countries whose resources and taxes are already stretched beyond endurance?How can the authorities really know if people are truly running away from a dire situation,or do they want to better the place where they live,find jobs etc..,thats fine,but, how can these people be helped when for example Greek citizens who are unemployed for more than a year cannot have health care or medication and can find very few government homeless shelters when they are thrown out of their homes by the banks.I am not advocating that people should be badly treated when they arrive as refugees as is often happening here in Greece and other countries,thats very wrong and cruel.
> There are not enough resources to go round for various reasons and so the doors are starting to be firmly bolted.


Thats correct - no country can bear ALL the burden.. but Greece has brought a lot of this problem on themselves, and through blundering on with an antiquated system has even refused help from other EU countries! (one of my refugee friends was returned from UK because Greece didnt answer the Home office asking if they should return him or keep him!)
Most of the jobs that the refugees do here, are jobs that Greeks wouldnt do - even if it paid well! They pick through garbage for tin, collect boxes for re-cycling, or as in the case of my friend - walk dogs for owners who dont want to be out for 4 hours in the summer heat. But whats more... refugees ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK! The EU and UN standards are that refugees be given the money (about 50e) and shelter until such time as they are processed and have an EU residence permit and can legally work - OR LEGALLY LEAVE THE COUNTRY. If the government here actually gave the money to the refugees (as does England, France, Finland etc) and processed them as they should, everyone would be ok - well except the police coz they'd be without a wage!
I dont accept the winjing about ''oh there's too many people for Greece to cope with'' bc if the UNHCR office here got busy as it should have done 15 years ago.. those people who have been waiting 12 years for a residency hearing would be processed and moved on by now. In between that time, the Athens Olympic games have come and gone, and if Greece really felt it had a problem with refugees back then - it could have asked for help with processing a long time ago... but we all know what would happen if a Greek politician were to be given funding for a computer system!!!
If the UK which has 105.000 asylum seekers, and a government half the size of Greece can do it...


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## concertina (Oct 18, 2012)

mrsDayLewis said:


> Well ratzaki its because its called being humane... something the Greek people/government know very little about. I've come to understand that the authorities use the monies given by UN and EU for REFUGEES to pay the wages for Greek police... wtf is that all about?
> I have very little sympathy for most of the people here - they are finally being forced to live up to their responsibilities.... cant pay the 'lecy bill - Ive lived without winter heating for the past 3 years!!! So, I dont really care what Greeks think about someone getting a driving license or not - but I sure do care what the rest of the free world think of a society which claims to be democratic yet gives less freedoms to a refugee in 2013 than they did to their slaves 3000 years ago!


MrDaylewis,you need to stop this now,I have just seen on the Greek Reporter news that a father of 3 children,2 toddlers and a 10 month old baby walked into a charity centre where he normally asked for food and clothes for his babes,asked to please take his 10 month old for good as he was unable to provide for it.He used to have a business,all gone,and soon his children too,in Cyprus.There are thousands like that,and empathy starts at home,for gods sake and theirs.


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## ratzakli (May 20, 2012)

mrsDayLewis said:


> Well ratzaki its because *its called being humane... *something the Greek people/government know very little about. I've come to understand that the authorities use the monies given by UN and EU for REFUGEES to pay the wages for Greek police... wtf is that all about?
> *I have very little sympathy for most of the people here - they are finally being forced to live up to their responsibilities*.... cant pay the 'lecy bill - Ive lived without winter heating for the past 3 years!!! So, I dont really care what Greeks think about someone getting a driving license or not - but I sure do care what the rest of the free world think of a society which claims to be democratic yet gives less freedoms to a refugee in 2013 than they did to their slaves 3000 years ago!


That is the least humane posting that I have seen for many years.

I think I will exercise my own human rights - I'm not going to continue having a discussion with someone as disgracefully ignorant as you.


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