# Thailand loses FACE!



## King Silk

Hundreds of Cops and Soldiers did not stop the Mob of Thaksin Red Shirts from disrupting the ASEAN Conference here in Pattaya today.
They broke-in to the Conference Hall and made such a noise that nobody could hear themselves talk! 
The PM promptly, and angrily, called the whole thing off!

Had this shamozzle been in many other countries I can think of, the Red Shirts would have been Red with Blood. But not here. Not in the LOS. The Protestors and Police did not get into a vicious confrontation. They all had sticks or batons but they were not used, as far as I could see, and only one Red Shirt waved a knife about. 
It was amazingly good humoured actually!

But the cancellation, and loss of FACE in front of the World, is no laughing matter..........His Majesty The King will not be amused.


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## Guest

It's difficult - having effectively looked after their protegees (the PAD movement) during the disruptions of last year, it would be pretty obvious where the middle class/military/'etc' allegiances lay if the police then got stuck into the redshirts for a similar protest movement.

They are having to tread a careful path at the moment.


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## RonVancouver

King Silk said:


> Hundreds of Cops and Soldiers did not stop the Mob of Thaksin Red Shirts from disrupting the ASEAN Conference here in Pattaya today.
> They broke-in to the Conference Hall and made such a noise that nobody could hear themselves talk!
> The PM promptly, and angrily, called the whole thing off!
> 
> Had this shamozzle been in many other countries I can think of, the Red Shirts would have been Red with Blood. But not here. Not in the LOS. The Protestors and Police did not get into a vicious confrontation. They all had sticks or batons but they were not used, as far as I could see, and only one Red Shirt waved a knife about.
> It was amazingly good humoured actually!
> 
> But the cancellation, and loss of FACE in front of the World, is no laughing matter..........His Majesty The King will not be amused.



This is a good narrative. The BBC coverage would tend to make a lot of us viewing things from outside the country very jumpy. However these thugs have exposed their real selves and the way in which you all describe reactions from the boots on the ground, that extreme patience was used and in the end Thailand is better for its cautious and humane response. The thugs can be dealt with next week in an appropriate forum. Vandalism, disruption of a public event, and trespass charges very well could face these hooligans. I do fell bad for the PM who has worked hard to bring some prestige and commerce to this troubled land.


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## Guest

Let's be a little circumspect over this. There are always two (or more) sides to every story. I spent a couple of months last year attending rallies and demonstrations in Chiang Mai, photographing and interviewing the UDD leaders and followers. To describe the vast majority of them as thugs or hooligans is to do them a grave disservice.

Certain other forums degenerate into flame wars over this at the drop of a hat, but it's a very complex situation and hopefully people here will have more sense


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## RonVancouver

frogblogger said:


> Let's be a little circumspect over this. There are always two (or more) sides to every story. I spent a couple of months last year attending rallies and demonstrations in Chiang Mai, photographing and interviewing the UDD leaders and followers. To describe the vast majority of them as thugs or hooligans is to do them a grave disservice.
> 
> Certain other forums degenerate into flame wars over this at the drop of a hat, but it's a very complex situation and hopefully people here will have more sense


Thanks for the reply. Having a Thai partner and several of his family in government and business in Bangkok, I am fully aware of the complexity as well as the need to tread lightly over this complicated issue of many agendas. Please note that the persons to whom I refer are the folks who have violated the law, i.e., tresspass, vandalism, and disruption (about 200) certainly in no way did I wish to convey "a majority". When folks rush a business, breaking windows and threatening, they are thugs. Those who sit - in, march and protest, are exercising their right to disagree. In that, I have no quarrel.
Thanks for allowing me to respond to this excellent forum.


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## Guest

As you say, many agendas. Yes there will always be a tiny minority of people who are just looking for trouble. Just so long as we remember a huge majority are just ordinary folk looking to ensure what they believe (rightly or wrongly) are their increasingly threatened democratic rights. Some photos that sum up for me the real people under the t-shirts:


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## KhwaamLap

Its hard to see what the red shirts hoped to achieve. The ASEAN was to talk about the ecomonomical crisis and how member countries can aid each other in the recovery, human rights in Myanmar and Cambodia and working towards a single economic union. Isn't this what the country wants - the Red Sirt agenda is irrelevant to ASEAN. This seems to me a case of cutting ones nose off despite ones face. As a purely publicity stunt, this doesn't show them in a very good light, putting their desperation for coverage over the need for the coun try to survive economically.


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## RonVancouver

frogblogger said:


> As you say, many agendas. Yes there will always be a tiny minority of people who are just looking for trouble. Just so long as we remember a huge majority are just ordinary folk looking to ensure what they believe (rightly or wrongly) are their increasingly threatened democratic rights. Some photos that sum up for me the real people under the t-shirts:




Thanks very much for this lovely pictures. LOS.... these caring, kind photos show the true folks... "that's what I remember about Thailand." Thank you again....


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## King Silk

Forgive me for going a bit off topic (I try not to do that as usual) but I want you Frogy to tell us HOW you managed to post those lovely pics......would you do that?

Back to the topic now. I talked to a number of the Soldiers on Pattaya Hill and they were mostly (and secretly) on the side of Thaksin's Red Shirts !

*The protesters got into the Hall via a back entrance. WHY, one might ask, was it not guarded by Cops or Troops? * Odd innit???


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## Guest

King Silk said:


> Forgive me for going a bit off topic (I try not to do that as usual) but I want you Frogy to tell us HOW you managed to post those lovely pics......would you do that?


First you need to use a web-based album, the likes of Flickr or Buzznet, to store your photos. Then it's pretty simple to use the "Insert Image" tool in the "Reply to Thread" window to put your photo in the post. Just click on "Insert Image", then copy paste the Flickr image url in the window that opens (there are instructions in the Forum FAQ). You can even use the "Insert Link" tool above to embed a link in the visible photo itself to a larger image (as I did in the photos above, just click on them to see the full-size images).

It is important that the photos in the thread are not too big (both in bytes and dimensions) so that they load quickly, and don't stretch the page width.



King Silk said:


> Back to the topic now. I talked to a number of the Soldiers on Pattaya Hill and they were mostly (and secretly) on the side of Thaksin's Red Shirts !
> 
> *The protesters got into the Hall via a back entrance. WHY, one might ask, was it not guarded by Cops or Troops? * Odd innit???


It's a mess. As the Beeb said today:



> There was little resistance from the security forces.
> 
> The tactics of the pro-Thaksin activists mirror those of their royalist rivals last year: they too paralysed government activity by targeting key venues.
> 
> The BBC's Jonathan Head in Bangkok says there is no question the pro-Thaksin protesters broke the law.
> 
> But, our correspondent adds, the problem is that Mr Abhisit rode to power on the back of protests that were just as illegal, and the PM may look hypocritical if he only goes after the red-shirted protesters who embarrassed him.


In Chiang Mai too, where there are a majority of UDD supporters, last year the troop situation was similar. Quite a few of the soldiers were from the North, and their families mainly support the UDD. And we know how deep family loyalties run in Thailand.


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## King Silk

Thanks for the info Frogy boy!

The reality is that the poor country folk of LOS love Thaksin. My GF cried when he came back a while ago.....
He gained that affection by making loans freely available at low interest to them. Also before him the cost of Medical Care was beyond the reach of the vast majority of poor peeps.
He brought in the 30bht rule for it. 
The fact that he was also corrupt is of little interest to them........

Bet he was watching the protests and cancellation of the Asean Conference on the box, and laughing his head off!


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## KhwaamLap

Without getting into a political two-a-fro (and ending up like ;'that other' forum ), the 30 baht medical and the village loans were both far from successful - and in many cases caused real problems or just never happened. 

The reason Thaksin is so well loved is that he owned or controlled the media (remember he had one of the chief editors for BKK Post sacked for an editorial that was not in his favour - and he didn't even own that). Just like Murdock in the UK, he can sway the voters because by and large they believe what they read and see on TV. He promised the world covered in pearls - the hub of this and that - 1st world country status in months - clamp down on foreigners/drugs/red light districts/late openeing hours - bla bla bla. It either went into some plan to make him wealthier (like compulsory buying tracts of land via the Government, selling it at rock bottom prices to his wife - and then naming it as the area where 'entertainment and nightlife' is allowed), or was just hot air.

He did do some things, sure - but nothing that really helped the villagers that dote on him so much. 

It is really doubtful he will ever be allowed entry into Thailand without being arrested, let alone stand again, so the red shirts really need to just get over it and work for a better Thailand rather than a terrible old one to be reintroduced.


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## King Silk

I can only say what I have been told KL.
In my Girlfriends village peeps were able to borrow up to 100000bht at very low interest, (which many did ) and go to Hospital to get treatment for a mere 30bht.
So how is THAT "far from successful" pray?

As far as his 'corrupt practices' are concerned. Par for the Course old bean!
Who isn't corrupt here eh?


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## Guest

King Silk said:


> As far as his 'corrupt practices' are concerned. Par for the Course old bean!
> Who isn't corrupt here eh?


That's about it, corruption is endemic, they're all at it. Well, a fair percentage anyway.

'Thaksin-mania' was the accusation often thrown at UDD supporters by PAD last year, along with the suggestion that the uneducated peasants were too ignorant to vote (hence the PAD plan for appointees to have 70% of decision-making powers with parliament the remaining 30%, this neatly avoiding the problem that elections were likely to return the UDD political factions to power)...

The trouble with this (apart from the implied racism against the dark-skinned Isaan-dwellers) is that when you actually talk to 'red' demonstrators, Thaksin's return is nowhere near as high up the priorities as their opponents suggest, and a fair percentage are able to talk pretty eloquently about their democratic aims and fears for the country under what would, in their eyes, boil down to a middle class elite/military carve-up of power...

Sure they have a soft spot for Thaksin, but they mostly talked about other more important goals. I found them actually less naive about the issues involved than the PAD supporters I talked to in Bangkok.


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## KhwaamLap

King Silk said:


> I can only say what I have been told KL.
> In my Girlfriends village peeps were able to borrow up to 100000bht at very low interest, (which many did ) and go to Hospital to get treatment for a mere 30bht.
> So how is THAT "far from successful" pray?
> 
> As far as his 'corrupt practices' are concerned. Par for the Course old bean!
> Who isn't corrupt here eh?


I don't really want to get into it, but if you do some research of the impact on medical centres and staff, the unavailability of loans in some places, and the amount of debt some people got into as they could 'qualify' for loans they never could before and bought silly things for the seemingly free cash. There was a whole lot of hoo-ha over it at the time. Its not something I want to argue about, so I'll leave it at that if you don't mind. 

Personally, I think the red shirts are causing trouble for the sake of it - probably because they feel the yellow shirts got away with it earlier. I just wish they'd all just settle down and let things right themsleves - if its still a problem in a year, then protest, but continual upheaval help no one - and attacking the ASEAN was just pointless and self defacing IMO.


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> First you need to use a web-based album, the likes of Flickr or Buzznet, to store your photos. Then it's pretty simple to use the "Insert Image" tool in the "Reply to Thread" window to put your photo in the post. Just click on "Insert Image", then copy paste the Flickr image url in the window that opens (there are instructions in the Forum FAQ). You can even use the "Insert Link" tool above to embed a link in the visible photo itself to a larger image (as I did in the photos above, just click on them to see the full-size images).
> 
> It is important that the photos in the thread are not too big (both in bytes and dimensions) so that they load quickly, and don't stretch the page width.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a mess. As the Beeb said today:
> 
> 
> 
> In Chiang Mai too, where there are a majority of UDD supporters, last year the troop situation was similar. Quite a few of the soldiers were from the North, and their families mainly support the UDD. And we know how deep family loyalties run in Thailand.


frogblogger, 

Has the dispute been of danger to expats living in Thailand? It only takes a few cretins to turn things ugly and then there would be a major shift in sentiment of the expat community. Hopefully their unhappiness isn't and won't be aimed at expats but things can change in a hurry.

Great photos but I didn't see too many lovely Thai creatures! But the one in Phnom Penh is a dandy! I didn't see her when I was there. 

Serendipity2


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## King Silk

Seems that "The few cretins" you mention S2 are in evidence in BKK now.
Too bad. The number of tourists coming to LOS has already dropped. This sort of thing will do nothing to improve matters.
A number of my friends have already cancelled.....
KL you obviously know a lot more about the political situation than I, so I fully accept your reading of it.
Happy Easter gents!


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## King Silk

Did I say in my OP that it was a peaceful protest?

Spoke too soon obviously......


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## Guest

King Silk said:


> Did I say in my OP that it was a peaceful protest?
> 
> Spoke too soon obviously......


Unfortunately it was always going to end up this way, the Army commanders would have no qualms about taking action against the redshirts. The PAD occupation for a couple of months of Government House, along with the shutting down of the international airports? Policy then was just leave them to it! It's all so transparently predictable.

A nasty situation, if this carries on much longer it'll only be a matter of time before people start dying, and then the resentments and divisions can only get worse


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## KhwaamLap

This is going to end horribly. The red shirts have lined up tankers around BKK (from what I hear) and are dousing them with water for now, but have molotov (spelling?) cocktails nearly ready to set them ablaze. Thai forces are firing into the air (and some reports and clips of them firing straight ahead - maybe at buses and cars being used to ram the police).

Red Shirts played directly into the Governments hands by breaking the law and attacking the ASEAN - on a world stage. The Government now can call riot laws and possibly even anti-terroist (I mean fuel tankers set up as bombs can't be described any other way really) laws. The world powers have seen the authorities apply a spftly-softly approach, they were even attacked in some of the world press for it, now the world will be behind them as they use incredible powers to return to civil rest. There are international 'manuals' on this sort of thing (The Rules for the Use of Force) which have pretty much been followed so far, using deadly force is acceptable to protect the law enforcers etc.

I am sad to repeat that this will end badly. Sad Sad Day 

Thaksin has been on the BBC telling a lot of BS Clip - pictures of the Turmoil here BBC


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## Guest

Thaksin has certainly poured petrol on the flames by (allegedly) calling for revolution. It is almost as if he wanted a military crackdown. One wonders what is going on behind the scenes. (If anything... this is Thailand, Western ideas of so-called rational behaviour often don't apply).


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## KhwaamLap

I wonder what woukld happen if they decided to prosecute him for high treason and revoked his passport - he would loose his Visa for Dubai (as his passport would be illegal - and his money doesn't carry much weight there, he is barely middle of the road in Dubai) and be sent home and then straight to the little room with the needles :O
Would that quieten the Red Shirts???


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## King Silk

If one looks at the history of past revolutions you will almost always see that they occurred
in countries where 90% 0f the wealth was in the hands of about 20% (or less) of the population......Thailand ?


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## KhwaamLap

I read a report once - about 10 years ago - that said in Thailand some 80% of the land was owned by just 5 families! I would say that the wealth distribution is even more skewed than 90/10 - certainly a fuse asking for the lighting. 

I think Thais are used to living this way though. Their structures and customs are built upon it and they expect rich people to do well and poor to just survive. People rarely move between strata. Its perhaps what protected Thailand from the wave of communism that flooded most of East and South Asia after the war. What will happen now is anyone's guess - but it will not be pretty and we may loose the Thailand we love in the end.


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## Serendipity2

King Silk said:


> If one looks at the history of past revolutions you will almost always see that they occurred
> in countries where 90% 0f the wealth was in the hands of about 20% (or less) of the population......Thailand ?


King Silk,

We're pretty close to that in the USofA and the gap is becoming greater every day. :/


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## Guest

S2, I'm pretty sure HM Silk mentioned he was right up there in the top 10%, so perhaps he'll help us out if we're down on our luck one day


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> S2, I'm pretty sure HM Silk mentioned he was right up there in the top 10%, so perhaps he'll help us out if we're down on our luck one day



frogblogger,

I thought he said Thailand was 'up there' - but even better if King Silk is as well.  If he is, I wonder if he adopts! [I could be available] 

Serendipity2

A short aside, one of the fatalities was a resident defending his property from the hooligans. I hope cooler heads prevail and end their protesting as it can only end up hurting more people. I'm sure there are grievances but the problem ultimately is too much wealth in too few hands. At some point the stuff hits the fan!


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## King Silk

Dammit! Who blew it? I was trying to keep my enormous wealth a secret.......

O Flippin' K I suppose I will have to bail you guys out if need arises. 

But only of your nice to me.......


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## Serendipity2

King Silk said:


> Dammit! Who blew it? I was trying to keep my enormous wealth a secret.......
> 
> O Flippin' K I suppose I will have to bail you guys out if need arises.
> 
> But only of your nice to me.......




King Silk, 

Considering your vast wealth, I have but one nagging question! Do you adopt?


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## King Silk

Serendipity2 said:


> King Silk,
> 
> Considering your vast wealth, I have but one nagging question! Do you adopt?


Yes. But only peeps with nice legs.......


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## Serendipity2

King Silk said:


> Yes. But only peeps with nice legs.......



King Silk 

Dang, well it was worth asking! Have to work on my stumps .


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