# Is there Social Security for Americans who move to Mexico?



## Marian42 (Oct 22, 2020)

If the political situation in the United States gets worse, I am considering moving to Mexico. But if the situation here gets worse, the chances are that our Social Security in the USA will be cut off, even if we stay in the USA. Do any US Americans live in Mexico who have no US income? I am 78 years old, and I have some medical problems, too, but am very active.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

What makes you thing that?


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

If you are a US citizen and you qualify for US Social Security you can continue to collect your benefits in Mexico as do many thousands of expats. If you have NO income, you would not be admitted as a permanent resident in Mexico. The Mexican government will not support you financially.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

You can qualify for residency in Mexico either by meeting income qualifications or by meeting wealth qualifications. You don't need income if you can show sufficient liquid wealth. It would have to be in a bank account or similar with a consistent balance, and you'd need to show 12 months of statements with more than the minimum each month for 12 months.

See here: https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/washington/index.php/servicios-para-extranjeros-visas?id=182

Depending on which consulate you apply at, the amounts might be subject to adjustment (some consulates may want you to have a little more than the minimum), but here they are as given at the link above for temporary and permanent visa in 2021:

Temporary resident:
wealth: US$37,289.00 (balance exceeding this amount every month for 12 months), or
income: US$2,237.00 (per month, e.g. from social security plus pensions and annuities)

Permanent resident:
wealth: US$149,158.00 (12 month consistent balance)
income: US$3,729.00 (per month)


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

That's an important point and I'm embarrassed to have overlooked it. If you have sufficient wealth you don't need ongoing income. The point is, they want to make sure you have a way to support yourself.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I _think_ my wife and I were handled separately/individually at the consulate (but I could be mistaken).
I was retired and we showed them bank statements representing savings.
My wife was still working and we showed them bank statements with monthly deposits.


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

I’ve been looking into residency in Mexico and taxation of foreign income. Does Mexico tax US Social Security income? Thanks.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

AirFiero said:


> I’ve been looking into residency in Mexico and taxation of foreign income. Does Mexico tax US Social Security income? Thanks.


No.


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

surabi said:


> No.


Thanks!


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## EWJ (Dec 15, 2020)

Marian42 said:


> If the political situation in the United States gets worse, I am considering moving to Mexico. But if the situation here gets worse, the chances are that our Social Security in the USA will be cut off, even if we stay in the USA. Do any US Americans live in Mexico who has no US income? I am 78 years old, and I have some medical problems, too, but am very active.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well.....

When I started working they said "social security is guaranteed once you qualify for benefits and you get full benefits starting at age 65".

Then after I'd worked a dozen years they changed that and told me that I'll get full benefits starting at age 67. 

So maybe it's just me, but I don't think that they think that word guaranteed means what I think it means.


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## hyracer (Aug 14, 2011)

You know the old saying "Nothing is guaranteed in life but death and taxes"


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

The best thing about obtaining permanent residency by being a worker in Mexico is that you do not need to meet an income or wealth threshold, at the time of application or at any time thereafter. You work for three years under sponsored Residente Temporal visas - mine were from schools - and at the beginning of your fourth year in Mexico, you apply for your Residente Permanente (and the process is usually uncomplicated). There is no expiration date or renewal on an RP; you have done what you need to do.

I am well aware how lucky I was to have this route available to me.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

I don't know if this has changed, as I got my temporary and permanent visas years ago, but in my case, I had a temporary residency with permission to work not by being a sponsored worker for some company, but setting up my own business.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

surabi said:


> I don't know if this has changed, as I got my temporary and permanent visas years ago, but in my case, I had a temporary residency with permission to work not by being a sponsored worker for some company, but setting up my own business.


interesting! I never knew that was a possibility.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

PatrickMurtha said:


> interesting! I never knew that was a possibility.


I did that application through an immigration lawyer, who said he didn't know if INM would accept it, but there was no reason not to try. They accepted it with no questions.

And contrary to a myth that seems prevalent among retired ex-pats, who know nothing about such things, but love to post their misinformation as fact, it isn't necessary to prove you are going to hire Mexicans to work for you. 

I have never had any employees, the business consists of me alone.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

surabi said:


> I did that application through an immigration lawyer, who said he didn't know if INM would accept it, but there was no reason not to try. They accepted it with no questions.
> 
> And contrary to a myth that seems prevalent among retired ex-pats, who know nothing about such things, but love to post their misinformation as fact, it isn't necessary to prove you are going to hire Mexicans to work for you.
> 
> I have never had any employees, the business consists of me alone.


Well that's interesting. Mexico is really a pretty friendly place to get a visa, compared to many other countries.

I've looked into business visa requirements for a couple countries I was checking out when planning retirement. For a while I had the notion of running an internet cafe, and using the business as a means of getting a visa. One country I looked at was Thailand. Their visa requirements get tweaked every couple of years, so it may be different now, but the other expat business owners in Thailand who I corresponded with told me their stories. There you do have some number of employees you must hire (I don't remember now whether it was 3 or 5), and the authorities do check. They sent inspectors around to make sure the people were really gainfully employed!

Then there's Cambodia, where you can get a "business" visa just by asking, and never need any business whatsoever, let alone any employees. It costs a bit more, but lasts longer, and it's a better deal in terms of cost/year than the regular visa so it's recommended for anyone retiring in Cambodia (should you be so crazy or short of money).

As to the retired expats that seem to have triggered you, I hope you are not trying to slam anyone while dancing around the forum rules. I may have mentioned the requirement to hire employees in another thread because of my experiences mentioned above, but I'm sure I never stated that it was a fact for mexico, since I only know about a couple other countries. Of course maybe you are misremembering what was said elsewhere. It's hard to say when you criticize a poster without naming them and without quoting them. Just because someone says Mexico _might _require you to have employees doesn't mean they are claiming to _know _that for a fact, right?


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

eastwind said:


> As to the retired expats that seem to have triggered you, I hope you are not trying to slam anyone while dancing around the forum rules. I may have mentioned the requirement to hire employees in another thread because of my experiences mentioned above, but I'm sure I never stated that it was a fact for mexico, since I only know about a couple other countries. Of course maybe you are misremembering what was said elsewhere. It's hard to say when you criticize a poster without naming them and without quoting them. Just because someone says Mexico _might _require you to have employees doesn't mean they are claiming to _know _that for a fact, right?


Yes there are some individuals on this forum who are beginning to get under my skin - what with their criticism of other posters. The sad thing is that it would appear that it is being encouraged.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

eastwind said:


> As to the retired expats that seem to have triggered you, I hope you are not trying to slam anyone while dancing around the forum rules


It had nothing whatsoever to do with what you or anyone else on this forum has said. I've read that false info on several other Mexican forums from years back.


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

I am curious about the Mexican political situation, and how it could potentially affect an expat retiree in Mexico. Any insight would be appreciated.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

AirFiero said:


> I am curious about the Mexican political situation, and how it could potentially affect an expat retiree in Mexico. Any insight would be appreciated.


In my opinion as a ten-year resident, don’t sweat it. Just choose a safe part of Mexico to live in.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

surabi said:


> It had nothing whatsoever to do with what you or anyone else on this forum has said. I've read that false info on several other Mexican forums from years back.


Thanks, I have always had a tendency to take things personally when I shouldn't.



AirFiero said:


> I am curious about the Mexican political situation, and how it could potentially affect an expat retiree in Mexico. Any insight would be appreciated.


I'll give you 2 cents worth of opinion for free: Over the course of 2020 I've lost count of how many times I've read the US news and thought "boy, I really made a good decision! I'm glad I'm not living in the US any more."

That said, I agree with the idea that people who move to another country to get away from the one they leave are seldom happy, people who move to another country because it has something they're looking for do much better.

I was worried when I moved here 4 years ago about the drug-war problem, but after 4 years I decided it seemed stable or getting slightly better, at least not getting worse, and I decided it was safe to not only live here but buy property.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I have been very happy to be in Mexico and NOT the US for quite a while, and I don’t think I need to get any more specific. 🙂


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

PatrickMurtha said:


> In my opinion as a ten-year resident, don’t sweat it. Just choose a safe part of Mexico to live in.


To me, that’s Cabo. Any reason to worry about Baja California Sur?


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

eastwind said:


> Thanks, I have always had a tendency to take things personally when I shouldn't.
> 
> 
> I'll give you 2 cents worth of opinion for free: Over the course of 2020 I've lost count of how many times I've read the US news and thought "boy, I really made a good decision! I'm glad I'm not living in the US any more."
> ...


This is a really good bit of food for thought (Bolded above). I’ve been looking into various countries outside the United States to possibly go expat. I am currently settled on Mexico because there’s a lot I like about Mexican people, culture and...THE FOOD! Mexican food is among my favorite. I don‘t seem to tire of it. I grew up in California, and the above things were part of my life here. Mexicans have been my friends, neighbors, coworkers, and so on.

I am considering Cabo because the weather is similar to California, there’s an international vibe, lots of variety of food, and it looks like it has good stores and services. Are there any south Baja folks here who can comment?


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

AirFiero said:


> This is a really good bit of food for thought .... Mexican food is among my favorite.


I saw what you did there.

I should give credit for the idea, because it was from someone else here, but I'm not 100% I remember who, and I know I paraphrased it. I think TundraGreen is who should get the credit for making the point in the first place. Running from vs running to. 

Just as a caveat, I know at least one expat who thinks the Mexican food is better in the US than Mexico.

It's also pretty much standard advice given out (someone else will say it soon if I don't), not only here but on other expat forums as well: don't buy a place immediately. Rent for at least a year. Have some kind of a bail-out plan. Psychologists will tell you that people, on average, are astoundingly bad at knowing what will make them happy. You may need to choose a different place in Mexico, or a different country, or discover you're just not expat material. There are a lot of types of people who can be happy as expats, but at least as many types who can't, and some of those think they can. Allow for the chance you're one of those.

Actually having a bailout plan makes it more likely you'll succeed. Feeling like you've burnt all your bridges back creates psycological stress and if you run into something you find very difficult to bear you can feel trapped and go into lion-in-a-cage mode until you boil over and break down and bolt back, leaving a trail of damage behind you.

If you come in with the mindset that you don't have to like everything, the things you don't like are easier to mentally minimize and don't become monomaniacal obsessions. You won't like everything, you'll find some things that are better and some that are worse, and if you expect that and are prepared to just deal with it, you'll be set up for success.

Depending on your budget, if you can afford it, rent a furnished place for three months to a year. You can still clear out your unnecessary stuff (de-junk) before you go, sell your house if you have one (you can sell it while you're here if you get it ready first) and put the sentimental stuff in storage. 

Another standard chestnut: get all your banking and finance stuff squared away the way you want it while you still have a permanent US address to use to open any accounts you're going to want. Read other threads on here to learn what 'the way you want it' is.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

AirFiero said:


> am considering Cabo because the weather is similar to California, there’s an international vibe, lots of variety of food, and it looks like it has good stores and services. Are there any south Baja folks here who can comment?


I'm not in southern Baja, but my daughter lives there, in Todos Santos, and I've visited many times and also stayed with an ex-boyfriend at his place in Cabo.

It really depends on what lifestyle you're looking for. Cabo is a big tourist trap, it's not just the weather that's like California, the whole place feels like LA south. Of course you can get out of the downtown core and into Mexican neighborhoods which aren't like that, but if you're going to be hanging out with gringoes, the ones I met weren't my cup of tea.
But if you like going to bars and fishing, and that sort of thing, you might like it.

Todos Santos, a little over an hour north, is more of a laid back place, more hippish, more artsy, with places to buy organic food, etc. But the beach there isn't a swimming or surfing beach, you have to go a bit south or north for that.

La Paz is a nice city with lots of shopping options, a Costco, etc. They have the most amazing second hand stores, too, the size of warehouses, where you can find just about anything.

So each place has it's own vibe and you'd just have to check them out to figure out which one suits you best.

And eastwind is right- Mexican food in Mexico is different than what you might be used to in the US. Personally I find it pretty boring.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

surabi said:


> Mexican food in Mexico is different than what you might be used to in the US. Personally I find it pretty boring.


Ok, that makes 2 people I know who've said that - and now I'll be bold enough to add myself, so 3. I'm sort of expecting some blowback on this point. 

Part of it is I've not been very adventurous in trying all sorts of (different) Mexican food. And real Mexicans don't do burritos. Seems to be a US thing. Tacos, yes, burritos, no. I've never yet found one of those enormous overstuffed burritos covered in red sauce and cheese and baked that I enjoyed back home. Some of the touristy restaraunts do serve burritos, but they are not good. One of these days I'll try some of the Mexican soups. I don't like soup generally, so I've shied away from that big bowl of red with stuff swimming in it. A bit too much like halloween for me. So if you're the type that can get out there and find somewhere selling spit-turned armadillo you might not be bored. Me, boring.

I think another part of it is there's a big difference between every-day Mexican food and stuff that someone has worked all day to prepare. And I don't think that very many Mexican cooks know how to do the all-day preparations. Most restaurants serve the common stuff. One plus of being in a tourist area is there will be some expensive restaurants with high-end cooks doing stuff that is at least prettier than average to look at. It might even taste better than boring. 

Lots of people told me I'd hate Cancun, where I live, but I don't. They say it's not _really _Mexico. Well, I get that, but it's enough _not _Mexico that I get to stay in my comfort zone, which is good for me. If you had to choose between the experience of living in real Mexico or being comfortable, which would you pick? I did used to like Acapulco too, before it became not-safe. It, unlike Cancun, at least had a real zocalo.

Now socially, you won't make expat friends in a tourist zone, because you won't meet many who are there longer than a week. And a lot of the Cancun tourists are pretty head-shaking deplorable. That's ok for me, I'm not that social, and wasn't in the US. Others would go crazy. 

Figure out what you want to spend your time doing.


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

eastwind said:


> I saw what you did there.
> 
> I should give credit for the idea, because it was from someone else here, but I'm not 100% I remember who, and I know I paraphrased it. I think TundraGreen is who should get the credit for making the point in the first place. Running from vs running to.
> 
> Just as a caveat, I know at least one expat who thinks the Mexican food is better in the US than Mexico.


I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos by expats (like Tangerine Travels), and many have said that the food in general is better in Mexico. Also, one said they felt sick when they came back and ate the food when visiting the United States.



> It's also pretty much standard advice given out (someone else will say it soon if I don't), not only here but on other expat forums as well: don't buy a place immediately. Rent for at least a year. Have some kind of a bail-out plan. Psychologists will tell you that people, on average, are astoundingly bad at knowing what will make them happy. You may need to choose a different place in Mexico, or a different country, or discover you're just not expat material. There are a lot of types of people who can be happy as expats, but at least as many types who can't, and some of those think they can. Allow for the chance you're one of those.
> 
> Actually having a bailout plan makes it more likely you'll succeed. Feeling like you've burnt all your bridges back creates psycological stress and if you run into something you find very difficult to bear you can feel trapped and go into lion-in-a-cage mode until you boil over and break down and bolt back, leaving a trail of damage behind you.


This is good advice, oft repeated. My plan was stay a week and not at an all-inclusive. Live more like a resident. Get a place with a decent kitchen. My wife and i love to cook, and we make everything. We eat at home a lot. Just today, we made Chili Verde for the 20th time.

Shop local, cook, try the non-tourist restaurants.

Then, try it for a month. Then longer.



> If you come in with the mindset that you don't have to like everything, the things you don't like are easier to mentally minimize and don't become monomaniacal obsessions. You won't like everything, you'll find some things that are better and some that are worse, and if you expect that and are prepared to just deal with it, you'll be set up for success.
> 
> Depending on your budget, if you can afford it, rent a furnished place for three months to a year. You can still clear out your unnecessary stuff (de-junk) before you go, sell your house if you have one (you can sell it while you're here if you get it ready first) and put the sentimental stuff in storage.
> 
> Another standard chestnut: get all your banking and finance stuff squared away the way you want it while you still have a permanent US address to use to open any accounts you're going to want. Read other threads on here to learn what 'the way you want it' is.


We’re in a position to keep a place here in the US and get a place down there, if and when we’re ready (near the wife’s kids and grandkids). At least in a couple of years. Keep ”stuff” up here, if we feel we need. Visit our stuff (including some cars I’ve collected) when we visit the kids.

Great information, thanks.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Something I notice is that people want to retire to Mexico for a lower cost of living, and many also want to congregate in locations that are touristy-beachy and/or heavily populated by other expats. Of course, the two things are not really compatible. 

If one has a lot of money, I suppose it doesn’t matter. Go where you will. But people who can swoop down into Mexico and buy property obviously occupy an entirely different level of reality than I do. For me, living on a $1200 monthly Social Security benefit and with no accumulated wealth, different possibilities in Mexico reveal themselves. 

If you must have the beach, Huatulco and Ixtapa are enormously cheaper than Cabo or Cancun or Puerto Vallarta. And represent a more authentic native lifestyle too.

Among the bigger cities of Mexico, Puebla easily has the most affordable housing. Among the smaller cities, Tlaxcala, where I moved a month ago, is an undiscovered gem. I rented a three-bedroom, pet-friendly, 1200 square foot house, new construction, for 4500 pesos or $225 USD / month. Take that in. 

Now, one might think that to settle down in a non-expat area, you need to have superb Spanish. Trust me, my Spanish ain’t superb. There is a lack of expat-oriented infrastructure in these areas, that’s true, so you kind of have to create your own on the fly, and that can be tedious at times. But if you have a pioneering spirit, well...

Maybe this strategy doesn’t work so well if you’re very socially oriented, I admit. I’m a guy who is pretty content with my books and music and animals. As long as the Internet is good enough for me to get BBC Radio 3, the place is not too remote. 

But my ultimate point is that it’s a big country and although yes, there are parts of it you definitely want to avoid (Tamaulipas, I’m looking at you), there are so many more living options here than expats usually consider. I mean, I don’t ever want to hear about Lake Chapala or San Miguel de Allende again. 🙂


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Huatulco and Ixtapa are both government made resort like Cancun was.. There are places around Ixtapa or Huatulco that are cheaper than these resorts.. both in Oaxaca and Guerrero..


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

citlali said:


> Huatulco and Ixtapa are both government made resort like Cancun was.. There are places around Ixtapa or Huatulco that are cheaper than these resorts.. both in Oaxaca and Guerrero..


Both are oriented more to the Mexican than the international market, which is what I mean by more authentic. But sure, there are lots of beach options, Escondido for example.


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

surabi said:


> I'm not in southern Baja, but my daughter lives there, in Todos Santos, and I've visited many times and also stayed with an ex-boyfriend at his place in Cabo.
> 
> It really depends on what lifestyle you're looking for. Cabo is a big tourist trap, it's not just the weather that's like California, the whole place feels like LA south. Of course you can get out of the downtown core and into Mexican neighborhoods which aren't like that, but if you're going to be hanging out with gringoes, the ones I met weren't my cup of tea.
> But if you like going to bars and fishing, and that sort of thing, you might like it.


I’ve heard that about Cabo. The good thing is, it means there’s money flowing into the area’s economy. Also, my wife and I aren‘t flashy people who need to live in a palace in town. We are also not beach people who need to live in the more expensive properties on the water. Living in a middle class neighborhood outside of downtown sounds right. Maybe in an expat development because my wife loves to have access to a pool for water exercises. Maybe we’d meet some nice expats to spend time with now and then. The rest of the time will be shopping locally and doing my best to speak the local language.



> Todos Santos, a little over an hour north, is more of a laid back place, more hippish, more artsy, with places to buy organic food, etc. But the beach there isn't a swimming or surfing beach, you have to go a bit south or north for that.
> 
> La Paz is a nice city with lots of shopping options, a Costco, etc. They have the most amazing second hand stores, too, the size of warehouses, where you can find just about anything.
> 
> So each place has it's own vibe and you'd just have to check them out to figure out which one suits you best.


I need to spend time in the area, and explore. I may decide on one of those places, rather than Cabo San Lucas, proper. I do like access to Costco and Walmart for certain things we need to be able to buy.



> And eastwind is right- Mexican food in Mexico is different than what you might be used to in the US. Personally I find it pretty boring.


This is somewhat surprising. I assumed that the Mexican food I’ve eaten at smaller, family owned restaurants in California is “authentic”. But then, restaurant food in general tends to be a bit fancier than what people tend to make at home.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

There is a lot in this thread to comment on. I'll just stick to one topic for now: Restaurants. There are lots of different types of restaurants. Mexico has most of the fast food joints that the US has. Then it has a range of non-chain restaurants varying from inexpensive to gourmet. What Mexico has that is pretty much gone in the US are the little family run places with seating for maybe half a dozen people and the street stands with maybe a few stools or tables for customers. The food they serve is not fancy by any means but it is all freshly cooked with real ingredients, and these places are available everywhere. In contrast, in my experience in the US your only option is fast food in a lot of places. Also, there is a big difference between what is available in the cities versus small towns just like anywhere. But small towns in Mexico will always have small restaurants that are cooking real food not just serving processed-chain-menu food (to use the term loosely).

Burritos and wheat tortillas in general are popular in northern Mexico. South of Chihuahua-Sonora you don't see them much. And even in the north, they are not the over-stuffed huge ones you see in California.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes you can have delicious food in small towns , homemade type freshly made,I had many nice surprises in small towns and villages..


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

We eat very well in Mexico. My favorite meal is mixiote de borrego. I'll be having that tomorrow 

What I miss the most from the US (food-wise) is a good Italian deli where I could get a roast beef hero (thinly sliced) with fresh mozzarella, oregano, lettuce, tomato, mayo, oil & vinegar. Even in Mexico City we have not found such a place. Or how about a true Jewish deli with a properly made corn beef on rye...


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## AirFiero (Feb 12, 2021)

TundraGreen said:


> There is a lot in this thread to comment on. I'll just stick to one topic for now: Restaurants. There are lots of different types of restaurants. Mexico has most of the fast food joints that the US has. Then it has a range of non-chain restaurants varying from inexpensive to gourmet. What Mexico has that is pretty much gone in the US are the little family run places with seating for maybe half a dozen people and the street stands with maybe a few stools or tables for customers. The food they serve is not fancy by any means but it is all freshly cooked with real ingredients, and these places are available everywhere. In contrast, in my experience in the US your only option is fast food in a lot of places. Also, there is a big difference between what is available in the cities versus small towns just like anywhere. But small towns in Mexico will always have small restaurants that are cooking real food not just serving processed-chain-menu food (to use the term loosely).
> 
> Burritos and wheat tortillas in general are popular in northern Mexico. South of Chihuahua-Sonora you don't see them much. And even in the north, they are not the over-stuffed huge ones you see in California.


If I go out for Mexican food here in California, I only go to local restaurants. I no longer eat fast food. Taco Bell isn’t food to me, let alone Mexican. Aside from occasional convenience, I can’t imagine what excuses people have for eating at Taco Bell instead of the many great little Mexican restaurants in a place like California.

I love street tacos in Mexico. One of the factors to wherever I live is whether I like the local food. It’s important not only for going out to eat, but the availability of ingredients for cooking at home.


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