# Can I teach English without Autonomo?



## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

Hello all,
I moved to Spain about 6 months ago to be reunited with my wife. She was transferred here for work and the rest of the family (my son and I) are covered by her social security payments.

I got a Business English gig in March for a few months (up until summer) with one of these doggy language agencies. The summer break just got me thinking a lot....since I rarely use the cheesy contents I was provided with (I developed most of my contents and the students I taught felt I was great), why don't I teach the companies/students directly?

The biggest headache I have is autonomo thingy...250 Euros per month IS a lot of money. I only want to teach part-time (any-time I am in the country) and maximise my earnings at the same time.
Is this possible especially as I am currently covered under my wife's social security payment?


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## Don Nico (Aug 2, 2013)

well, it is about €270 and up depending on where you're living actually. But if you intend to be teaching, then autonomo is absolutely a good way to go. It lets you contribute to the society instead of just being a burdon. I don't believe anyone want to pay for your kids or social needs, so the more you contribute yourself, the better is is for everyone. 270 gives you priority to health care and the feeling of actually adding something to the society of which you're living, a society that we all are supposed to enjoy on equal terms. 

Talking about how to avoiding taxation in times like these is anything but okay I think.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Mac Anthony123 said:


> Hello all,
> I moved to Spain about 6 months ago to be reunited with my wife. She was transferred here for work and the rest of the family (my son and I) are covered by her social security payments.
> 
> I got a Business English gig in March for a few months (up until summer) with one of these doggy language agencies. The summer break just got me thinking a lot....since I rarely use the cheesy contents I was provided with (I developed most of my contents and the students I taught felt I was great), why don't I teach the companies/students directly?
> ...


Join the club.
No one wants to pay it, but if you want to be legal you have to.
There are plentyof people who don't though - depends which side of the fence you want to be on.
However, don't forget you'll also need an NIE (which I'm supposing you have already) an ss number and permission to work in this country. As a Nigerian, do you have this?

I am qualified, experienced teacher. I pay it.
I do get a large amount back as a tax rebate though.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Join the club.
> No one wants to pay it, but if you want to be legal you have to.
> There are plentyof people who don't though - depends which side of the fence you want to be on.
> However, don't forget you'll also need an NIE (which I'm supposing you have already) an ss number and permission to work in this country. As a Nigerian, do you have this?
> ...



same here - & paying the autónomo hurts but has to be done

what hurts even more is that there's a new scheme for new registrations - they can pay just 50€ a month for I think the first year


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## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Join the club.
> No one wants to pay it, but if you want to be legal you have to.
> There are plentyof people who don't though - depends which side of the fence you want to be on.
> However, don't forget you'll also need an NIE (which I'm supposing you have already) an ss number and permission to work in this country. As a Nigerian, do you have this?
> ...


Yeah I do Pesky, have the permission to work in the country...and I prefer being legal. 
But my concerns are, I only spend 3 months at a stretch in Spain...and during that period, my planned working schedule will be on average 2.5 hours everyday of a working week. If my calculations are right, deducting 270 Euros and add a 21% tax will mean my take home will be 576 Euros for the months I work. 
What happens during the months I don't work? Will I still pay the 270 Euros every month? And since it isn't something I can't be overly committed to yet (therefore my hours are not guaranteed), does it mean I will pay the 270 Euros, even if I make less than 270 Euros a month?

We currently use private insurance, so it isn't like we are a burden on the health service, does that count to opt out of the 270 Euros monthly?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Mac Anthony123 said:


> Yeah I do Pesky, have the permission to work in the country...and I prefer being legal.
> But my concerns are, I only spend 3 months at a stretch in Spain...and during that period, my planned working schedule will be on average 2.5 hours everyday of a working week. If my calculations are right, deducting 270 Euros and add a 21% tax will mean my take home will be 576 Euros for the months I work.
> What happens during the months I don't work? Will I still pay the 270 Euros every month? And since it isn't something I can't be overly committed to yet (therefore my hours are not guaranteed), does it mean I will pay the 270 Euros, even if I make less than 270 Euros a month?
> 
> We currently use private insurance, so it isn't like we are a burden on the health service, does that count to opt out of the 270 Euros monthly?


Yes, the Social Security payment is fixed for EVERY month irrespective of whether you earn 0 or 10000 a month. You can 'baja' your autonomo but it's a bit of paperwork and you don't want to be doing it every 3 months I wouldn't think.


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Ditto PW and XC. I now have a full timetable of private students, but when I started out this was obviously not the case. 

I presume the OP would be eligible for the 50€ new rate? Anthony, do you have a teaching qualification?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> Ditto PW and XC. I now have a full timetable of private students, but when I started out this was obviously not the case.
> 
> *I presume the OP would be eligible for the 50€ new rate*? Anthony, do you have a teaching qualification?


presumably, yes

it's for first registrations or those who have been 'baja'd' for 5 years +


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> presumably, yes
> 
> it's for first registrations or those who have been 'baja'd' for 5 years +



That'd make a pretty good difference to his calculations! However, once you "baja", even for a month, you then have to pay the full price apparently (according to my gestor) as you are no longer a new registration.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> That'd make a pretty good difference to his calculations! However, once you "baja", even for a month, you then have to pay the full price apparently (according to my gestor) as you are no longer a new registration.


ooh I hadn't thought of that!!

but it makes absolute sense 

even if he continued paying for the months he wasn't working though, he'd still be paying less than I do on an annual basis - in fact I pay nearly what he'd pay for a year in just 2 months!!


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> ooh I hadn't thought of that!!
> 
> but it makes absolute sense
> 
> even if he continued paying for the months he wasn't working though, he'd still be paying less than I do on an annual basis - in fact I pay nearly what he'd pay for a year in just 2 months!!


Yep, that's why I didn't "baja" in August - would've lost discount. 

Ugh  Why couldn't they have introduced it for all of us?!


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## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

goingtobcn said:


> Ditto PW and XC. I now have a full timetable of private students, but when I started out this was obviously not the case.
> 
> I presume the OP would be eligible for the 50€ new rate? Anthony, do you have a teaching qualification?


I don't have a teaching qualification; however I was trained in the UK (up to Master degree level).
I do have over 10 years business advisory experience (of which a year was spent conducting training) and 4 months teaching experience in Spain (primarily Business English to a team of lawyers and marketing executives).


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## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> same here - & paying the autónomo hurts but has to be done
> 
> what hurts even more is that there's a new scheme for new registrations - they can pay just 50€ a month for I think the first year


Just to be clear, are you trying to say new entrants pay only 50 Euros or are you saying they pay 50 Euros in addition to the statutory rate of 250 to 270 Euros? The phrase "what hurts even more" is what brought about the confusion.

If it is former of the options in the last statement holds, then that is excellent news. How can I register for it?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mac Anthony123 said:


> Just to be clear, are you trying to say new entrants pay only 50 Euros or are you saying they pay 50 Euros in addition to the statutory rate of 250 to 270 Euros? The phrase "what hurts even more" is what brought about the confusion.
> 
> If it is former of the options in the last statement holds, then that is excellent news. How can I register for it?


yes - it's only 50€ a month for new registrations

that hurts those of us who pay 270+€ a month - & must be especially galling for recent registrations whose gestores didn't advise them to wait a few months 

I'd use a gestor myself, to register - just to make sure you get everything right - though it's perfectly possible to DIY


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes - it's only 50€ a month for new registrations
> 
> that hurts those of us who pay 270+€ a month - & must be especially galling for recent registrations whose gestores didn't advise them to wait a few months
> 
> I'd use a gestor myself, to register - just to make sure you get everything right - though it's perfectly possible to DIY


Phew, what a day, but before I collapse into bed I just wanted to say that there have been several cases of the 50€ autonomo payment being a flash in the pan as I posted on an earlier thread. People have not only been asked to pay the full amount after a few months, but also have been asked to _*back*_ pay the full amount, so tread carefully.

Going off and on autonomo is not difficult and the people in the ss and tax office should help you if you don't know what to do. It does take a little time, but not too bad, about an hour and a half where I am.

Also, as a hardworking teacher myself, if you are thinking of charging students for classesI would seriously hope that you are a qualified teacher who not only looks like he knows what he's doing, but also really does know what's what in language teaching...


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Phew, what a day, but before I collapse into bed I just wanted to say that there have been several cases of the 50€ autonomo payment being a flash in the pan as I posted on an earlier thread. People have not only been asked to pay the full amount after a few months, but also have been asked to _*back*_ pay the full amount, so tread carefully.
> 
> Going off and on autonomo is not difficult and the people in the ss and tax office should help you if you don't know what to do. It does take a little time, but not too bad, about an hour and a half where I am.
> 
> Also, as a hardworking teacher myself, if you are thinking of charging students for classesI would seriously hope that you are a qualified teacher who not only looks like he knows what he's doing, but also really does know what's what in language teaching...


Oh wow, I hadn't seen those posts - definitely advisable to tread carefully then! 

Completely agree about the qualifications.


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## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks everyone. Really insightful.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Phew, what a day, but before I collapse into bed I just wanted to say that there have been several cases of the 50€ autonomo payment being a flash in the pan as I posted on an earlier thread. People have not only been asked to pay the full amount after a few months, but also have been asked to _*back*_ pay the full amount, so tread carefully.
> 
> Going off and on autonomo is not difficult and the people in the ss and tax office should help you if you don't know what to do. It does take a little time, but not too bad, about an hour and a half where I am.
> 
> Also, as a hardworking teacher myself, if you are thinking of charging students for classesI would seriously hope that you are a qualified teacher who not only looks like he knows what he's doing, but also really does know what's what in language teaching...


:confused2:

I'm pretty sure the 50€ autónomo scheme was only started this month??


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :confused2:
> 
> I'm pretty sure the 50€ autónomo scheme was only started this month??


Hmm.... :confused2:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> Hmm.... :confused2:


OK.
The link I gave does not refer to the new economic measures that were announced for those who want to sign on as self employed workers as from now. 
It refers to older measures like if you are a woman, long term unemployed etc. If you scroll down you'll see that it talks about each "comunidad", which people are supposed to receive payments and what those payments are supposed to be. Before that you get a summary of what the situation is in each comunidad. 
For Madrid it says among other things, that a complaint has been filed by representatives of the self employed stating the difficulty encountered when trying to get these benefits paid to them dating back to *2011*
Ayudas para autónomos, subvenciones para el autónomo | Infoautónomos
This suggests to me that new autonomos may also encounter difficulties accessing their benefits sooner or later


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK.
> The link I gave does not refer to the new economic measures that were announced for those who want to sign on as self employed workers as from now.
> It refers to older measures like if you are a woman, long term unemployed etc. If you scroll down you'll see that it talks about each "comunidad", which people are supposed to receive payments and what those payments are supposed to be. Before that you get a summary of what the situation is in each comunidad.
> For Madrid it says among other things, that a complaint has been filed by representatives of the self employed stating the difficulty encountered when trying to get these benefits paid to them dating back to *2011*
> ...


thanks - that's clearer

but that's receiving grants as far as I can see (no time for a proper read atm, but that's what it looks like at a quick glance) - not actually paying a lower rate of autónomo payments, which I know a lot of people do


are you saying that somewhere in that, it says that those on a lower rate have been made to pay extra at a later stage?


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> same here - & paying the autónomo hurts but has to be done
> 
> what hurts even more is that there's a new scheme for new registrations - they can pay just 50€ a month for I think the first year


I found this info a while back so I'm not sure how outdated it might be!
It states men and women can get a 30% discount but it's age restricted, men under 30, women under 35!
There is also info on women returning to work after "but for a 100% deduction on their social security, is for women returning to self-employment within two years of maternity leave."
Guide to Spain's autonomo system

So is the €50 pm for all ages and does it supersedes the above?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Muddy said:


> I found this info a while back so I'm not sure how outdated it might be!
> It states men and women can get a 30% discount but it's age restricted, men under 30, women under 35!
> There is also info on women returning to work after "but for a 100% deduction on their social security, is for women returning to self-employment within two years of maternity leave."
> Guide to Spain's autonomo system
> ...


Yes it is and yes it does.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> Yes it is and yes it does.


Thanx xabiachica. A lot of info in a very short answer


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Mac Anthony123 said:


> I don't have a teaching qualification; however I was trained in the UK (up to Master degree level).
> I do have over 10 years business advisory experience (of which a year was spent conducting training) and 4 months teaching experience in Spain (primarily Business English to a team of lawyers and marketing executives).


I'm not sure where in Spain you are based, but in Madrid (and other large cities) there's a huge company called Vaughan Systems (Información - Master de Inglés Profesional en España - Inglés Vaughan - Vaughan Systems) that usually employs teachers on autonomo contracts. They do business English and use their own methodology (they prefer to train you themselves rather than demand qualifications). It might be worth talking to them as they might have enough work to employ people on and on/off basis throughout the year. Otherwise you'll find it hard to just turn up and walk into a job for a few months at a time.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> thanks - that's clearer
> 
> but that's receiving grants as far as I can see (no time for a proper read atm, but that's what it looks like at a quick glance) - not actually paying a lower rate of autónomo payments, which I know a lot of people do
> 
> ...


I've got in touch with my "source". :spy:
She said she knows of people who set up companies with financial help from the government, not necessarily self employed, and they are the people who've been told that there's no more money and that they have to pay the money back, so yes, you're right in what you say above.
All that I was trying to say though was that you can't trust these new laws further than you can throw them - unfortunately.


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