# Why Brazil?



## PaulF70

Hello. First, by way of introduction, I'm currently living in the midwest of the United States, mid-40s, married with three kids. In short sometime within the next 5-10 years we want to relocate as I believe this nation is headed for bad times.

My initial research has left me a little overwhelmed: there is so much to consider, and so many variables (always changing!), when considering a country to move to.

I see that this forum has sub-forums for Argentina and Brazil, only, in South America. The question I would like to ask people here is "Why did you choose Brazil?" Or, if perhaps Brazil chose you, is there another South American nation you'd prefer?

I am young enough that I'll probably still need to work for a living after we relocate, so the job market is important. I'm a software developer but also a licensed pilot and could possibly work in that field.

Safety is obviously paramount; the long-term instability of governments in this area of the world is something of a concern. 

All comments will be appreciated! Thanks.


----------



## AnthonyRMC

Well I don't know if the USA will fall that much. Nothing in Latin America is the equal.

Most of us who live here chose it through various reasons.

Be very carefull, and after deciding on a country, check it out first before uprooting everything.

If you have 5 - 10 years, then learn the language before coming to live here (wherever.)

Work?
Well, you just can't come on down and work. You will need to be contracted by a company first, before you get a work visa.

Btw: Out of curiosity, have you ever visited Brazil?
It is vast, with different cultures from the south, north, central west etc.

You might try getting a job with a multinational that needs somebody down here.


----------



## warlock233

Well, as a Brazilian, I would be happy to exchange places with you 
If you think US is headed to bad times, don't even think about coming down here.
Things are not great and nothing indicates that it will get better in the near future.

Ok, that's a bit dramatic - but not sure what or where you researched, or what the TV shows up there, but I know plenty of people who want to go away, and that includes myself (and consider that we all speak the language and are adapted to the culture).


----------



## AnthonyRMC

warlock233 said:


> Well, as a Brazilian, I would be happy to exchange places with you
> If you think US is headed to bad times, don't even think about coming down here.
> Things are not great and nothing indicates that it will get better in the near future.
> 
> Ok, that's a bit dramatic - but not sure what or where you researched, or what the TV shows up there, but I know plenty of people who want to go away, and that includes myself (and consider that we all speak the language and are adapted to the culture).


I agree.
As a naturalized Brazilian and having lived here for 26 years, I really haven't seen any improvement.

I would move to the USA tomorrow if I could. (But I can't. )


----------



## PaulF70

Thanks for the replies. I'd love to have a conversation about this!

First, what is bad about Brazil? Talk to me as if I knew next-to-nothing about the present state of the country, because that is the case!

I will tell you some of the things I do not like about the United States.

The country is on a completely unsustainable economic course. There has been no real "recovery" whatsoever since the Great Recession of 2008 - rather, the problems continue to be kicked down the road by more & more debt. Everything is based on debt. We no longer have any means of production in this country - no manufacturing. At all. So we export our money and the jobs with it. Already at this point more than 50% of the country receives government assistance of some kind. I won't go in to details, but, I have worked in the financial industry for 15 years, and I am one of the ones who is convinced that this is going to end badly. Very badly.

On top of this there are severe racial tensions in a great many large cities. The tension caused by rioting over food shortages, disruptions in government service, etc., could easily erupt into massive violence. We've seen some of these things already.

The United States has many enemies - there is the constant threat of terrorist attack. The government has acknowledged the possibility of an EMP attack by a rogue nation (surprisingly little sophistication necessary here) that could turn the country into a living hell for a decade or more.

In short, I believe that within the next 10-20 years there is a substantial possibility of great strife, hardship, and worse here.

2nd-world nations have their own issues, I am aware, but to me they seem more manageable. I am aware things like electrical infrastructure are unreliable - that's actually good in a sense, as people learn to be resilient because they have to be! Hell will not break loose in such places if the power grid were down for a week or two. (It would here: believe me. After a few days people would no longer have food.)

I realize I may have a different perspective than many here on what is important and what sorts of events one should be prepared for. 

So, please do tell me exactly what it is you do not like about Brazil, and thank you.


----------



## warlock233

Hi Paul,

My biggest concern about Brazil nowadays is *security*.
There is a huge social inequality across the country - I'm not a social scientist, but in my opinion reason lack of education is the most notable cause.
And as in anywhere where few people get a lot of money and lots of people get almost nothing, the inevitable happens: violence.
I can be considered very "lucky" over here as I had the chance to go through college and I earn a decent salary. The thing is that: 1) sometimes you feel guilty because of what you see and 2) violence is everywhere. It has happened to my family and every one knows someone who was robbed and had a gun pointed to their head - and it seems to be getting worse and worse - people are shooting each other for nothing.
We don't have any sort of terrorist attacks (that is a bad thing in the US, I must agree), however in the state of Sao Paulo alone last year around 4500 were killed (that's more than 9/11).

The minimum wage here is around R$700 (that's around 320USD in today's currency) - and not only this is a very low amount - but also the cost of living is getting higher and higher every year. Inflation rate is somewhere around 5-6% per year.

Another thing: the infrastructure is poor. Wait till you see what we got here - and trust me, I don't even know the remote places in the country - I live in Sao Paulo state which would loosely compare to what the state of NY is for the US. Wanna travel from one city to another by train? Forget about it. Wanna drive? Be prepared to pay a fortune in tolls and for massive traffic.
The last one this year is that we are running out of water. The govmt is begging people to save water as the reservoirs are almost empty and there is a risk that there will be a "water rotation system" where some people will not have water in their houses for a couple of days every week.

I hear Americans complaining about the public health system... I have never researched so deep to understand how it works, but it seems there is a gap where some people can't use the public system nor have money to pay for the private one... Over here most of the people rely on the public system and it's awful. People die waiting for surgeries (or even for tests/exams that are never done) and hospitals are full. Some remote cities don't even have hospital/doctors.

I could type here for hours about this... Of course there are positive things as well. There are no hurricanes, earthquakes or any other sort of major natural disaster (still people manage to build houses in risky areas in the middle of the mountains and every year when rain season starts we see the same stuff happening). The weather is good and the "good" people are lovely. I'm sure most of people is receptive to foreigners even though almost anyone speaks English (that would be another challenge for you).

I'm not the biggest fan of the current govmt here - and there are elections this year and everything points to the path where they will remain with the power for 4 more years - but that's just my personal view. The economical political seems to be a disaster and big companies are not able to sustain their growth as they expect (and as happens in China, India and other developing economies). The laws are outdated and very old fashioned - and that prevents things from working smoothly - there is a lot of bureaucracy - the other day I read something like (I guess it was NYT): "as soon as you set foot in Brazil you start wasting time" - that perfectly describes how things work over here.

I am trying to make my way out of here... All I want is to go to a place where English is spoken, so I can communicate properly. I found Australia to be the perfect candidate - and I'm in the process of getting a Permanent Resident Visa (that's why I'm in this forum the first place).
Maybe you should do some research about it as well - you already speak English so there would be no communications barriers.

Last, but not least - I don't know what you do for living - but unless you have a high mgmt position - or you work in the IT industry - it would be hard to find a job without speaking the language here.

Hope this is useful...

All the best.


----------



## PaulF70

Thanks for that. That helps a lot.

Actually I do work in IT, and I'm pretty sure that in recent years the Brazillian govt has been looking for immigrants like me.

But, safety for my family is paramount - that's pretty much what's driving the urge to relocate. So, your feedback is certainly quite welcome.

As for gross income disparity, it's always increasing here as well, and it matters not in the slightest who is in charge.

The same goes for inflation. Like so many other things, government figures are gross distortions, since food and fuel were removed from the CPI long ago. But those are just the things always getting more expensive and the things that especially lower-income people spend almost all their money on.


----------



## AnthonyRMC

There is not much that I can add to 'warlock233's' post.
Obama is terrible, but imagine a president much worse, the continuation of another terrible left-wing president - 'Lula'.
We have suffered almost 12 years of sever PT politics (workers party,) and we will probably suffer 4 more years.  We have an election this year, and all points to our president Dilma being re-elected.
Both Lula and Dilma are the biggest butt kissers of Fidel Castro by the way.
Brazil rolls on, with little if any help from the government. 
Business people and workers get together and work things out.

I moved here in 1988 at 28 years of age. Sure, I have had a good time. Lots of beautifull women.  
I have been all over this country. There are just three states that I haven't lived in or visited, - Roraima, Acre and Amapá.
But now, at 54, I look back and see my mistake. (Moving here.)
I would give anything to be able to return in time and choose the USA instead of Brazil.

Think about it carefull buddy.


----------



## warlock233

If safety is a priority, then don't come.
Most of the IT jobs are in Sao Paulo and that's for sure not the safest city to live in.

I'm sure that in smaller cities in the US the terrorism thing is not as bad as in major cities such as NY. It's probably much safer than Sao Paulo.
Even when I was in NY, I felt much safer...


----------



## PaulF70

I appreciate your thoughts, and, indeed, I have pretty much scratched Brazil off the list because of the feedback here. Thanks!

But, if there is ever an EMP attack on the U.S. it won't matter what, if any, city you're in. One gov't study predicated 90% of the population dead within 18 months.


----------



## warlock233

You are making the right decision.

and I still believe an EMP attack is not something very likely to happen. Maybe some stuff can be messed up (Obamacare, etc), but I think that national security is not that bad.

I really felt safe when I was there, much more than I do here.

All the best and good luck finding a new place to live!


----------



## AnthonyRMC

PaulF70 said:


> I appreciate your thoughts, and, indeed, I have pretty much scratched Brazil off the list because of the feedback here. Thanks!


Well despite my comments, I wouldn't scratch Brazil off the choice completely.

Retirement in a coastal smallish town in the Northeast can be great.
A farm in the interior can be great.
I don't know exactly what you are looking for.

São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro have become unbearable, unless one is retired in a nice apartment, and can walk to one's favorite bar(s) restaurant(s) and beach.
Enjoy the beach in Rio, but get out of the city on the weekends, because the beaches are super crowded and horrible.
São Paulo is actually better on the weekend because many Paulistanos leave it.

Maybe a good trip down here, travelling around, and you might get a better idea.

I've been here 26 years as I mentioned. Brazil is my country. I'm naturalized, and have no idea how I could live in England again, after so long away.

And I know that I have no chances of a visa for the USA to live (a friend there checked with an immigration lawyer for me, in 2007.)

And so we live here to the best of our abilities, avoiding problems, making friends, the same 'day to day' stuff as anywhere. 

"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence".
A silly expression, because it usually isn't.


----------



## PaulF70

Anthony, you may not be able to get a U.S. visa, but what you can do if you want is fly to Mexico and walk across the border. That works fine about 99% of the time.


----------



## AnthonyRMC

PaulF70 said:


> Anthony, you may not be able to get a U.S. visa, but what you can do if you want is fly to Mexico and walk across the border. That works fine about 99% of the time.


I would never do this sir.
I have a problem. I like to stay within the law to the best of my abilities.
Even when the laws suck. 

People down here complain when stopped by the police and fined, or they pay a bribe.
I ask why?
Of course, their license had expired, or they hadn't paid the tax that year etc.
Never happened to me. 
I keep everything up to date and legal.


----------



## PaulF70

Anthony,

I was trying to be funny. In seriousness, I would absolutely never do such a thing myself, nor recommend it to anyone.

I was trying to draw attention to the irony here: all kinds of productive citizens cannot get into this country, yet there is now widespread & building sentiment to give citizenship to tens of millions of illegals, just because. It's completely batty.


----------



## AnthonyRMC

PaulF70 said:


> Anthony,
> 
> I was trying to be funny. In seriousness, I would absolutely never do such a thing myself, nor recommend it to anyone.
> 
> I was trying to draw attention to the irony here: all kinds of productive citizens cannot get into this country, yet there is now widespread & building sentiment to give citizenship to tens of millions of illegals, just because. It's completely batty.


Too true. 

Of course the illegals will later vote also, generally for the liberals. 

We have to make the best of what we have.

You might actually like the South of Brazil. More civilized, polite and clean. Massive European immigration (generally German and Italian,) made the difference.


----------

