# Finally we have arrived - now for residency!



## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Hi all, after months and months of planning my family and I finally arrived in Spain about a month ago. We have so far managed to get the children enrolled in school, rent a villa, furnish it and move in, I have a job 4 days a week and hubby has managed to get his university studies transfered to Barcelona. We have also begun language lessons with the local youth club. So not bad effort really. 

We have done the empadronament papers and now need to get our residency sorted out. We went to the local police and they refered us to the Policia National in Granollers (the next big town to us). We went there and they told us that we had to come back at 7.30 in the morning to get one of only 15 tickets that they hand out a day for this purpose. There seemed to be an aweful lot of people waiting the day we were there at 11am. 

My question is this - has anyone used a gestoria to do their residency in Catalunya? Will I need a translator to come with me (my spanish is very minimal) or is it likely that someone there will be able to speak english? Any information would be greatly appreciated. The town hall has told us that our empadronament certificate will only last 30 days for doing official papers otherwise we would have to pay for another one. Only 6Euro but hey it is all money.

Your replies gratefully received.
Dizzy


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

The "Certificado de Empadronamiento" does only last 30 days. Thereafter you need a new one. This applies to everybody. But it's something you'll seldom need once it's all done. 

The residency process can be a PITA especially if you are NOT EU citizen. It will be Policia Nacional normally. If they've said 07:30 - BE THERE AT 06:00 so you're first in the queue. You can always take turns to pop off for a coffee until 07:30. 

My first registration happened when there was no EU advantage - I went early - got the papers - got my collegues to help me fill it out and went back the next day (also early)

When I last went here in Madrid - they spoke SPANISH. End of story. In Cataluña they could be more bloody minded and only speak Catalan. 

Here however EU were attended additional hours when the door is shut to non-EU applicants too. You could also make an appointment.


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks Chris, I was afraid of the language issue and you have given me reason to think I was right. We have begun taking Catalan lessons but only just - so there is no way we would cope with out a translator. Unfortunately we are bound to public transport and so the earliest we can get there is 6.45 add that to the fact that I finish work at approx midnight the night before and then have to walk home. You can understand now how I am looking forward to doing this. Not...

Anyway thanks for your help.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Diz

If I were you - I get a TAXI. I don't know what the situation in Granollers is like - But in Madrid the South Americans are queueing as early as 5:30. And Once there IT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME. 

Consider asking for time off for ASUNTOS PROPIOS - You are entitled normally to this by law or "Convenio". No colleagues you can ask for help? - I would also chat with your employer - They have a vested interest in getting you legalised.

My experience is that the Spanish are fine helping "guiris". And also my experience of "ordinary" Catalans is that they'd rather help a foreigner than a Castillian. The Civil Service tbh is NOT THAT BAD - but you're best not to bank on them being cooperative.


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## Burriana Babs (Nov 22, 2007)

Do like we did and get a gestoria and they do all the work. You just show up and pick up your papers.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Burriana Babs said:


> Do like we did and get a gestoria and they do all the work. You just show up and pick up your papers.


I'm a bit surprised as NORMALLY they want to check that you look like your photo before - especially non-EU folk. But if it works - go for it.


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks for all your replys - I have asked my boss's wife to come with me to translate for us and we are going to borrow her car to do the trip down so we can leave a little earlier than the train. But I do need my beauty sleep too.... I will let you know how we get on


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## Davidakky (Oct 14, 2008)

You do not actually need residency any more!
If you live in Spain for more that 183 days you automatically become a tax resident and if you are employed and completing the Spanish tax paperwork and or recieving nominas or payslips then you must be registered anyway.
There are no real benefits anymore to being a full resident. being a tax resident is enough.
There used to be huge differences but now with EU citizen equality these differences have been removed.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Davidakky said:


> You do not actually need residency any more!


Dizzy is NOT EU - so she does.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Davidakky said:


> You do not actually need residency any more!
> If you live in Spain for more that 183 days you automatically become a tax resident and if you are employed and completing the Spanish tax paperwork and or recieving nominas or payslips then you must be registered anyway.
> There are no real benefits anymore to being a full resident. being a tax resident is enough.
> There used to be huge differences but now with EU citizen equality these differences have been removed.


Im sorry, it *is* a legal requirement in Spain that if you reside here then you have to have a residency certificate and you have to apply for it within, I think, 60 days of arriving on Spain with the intent to live here.

This has been in force since a year last March when residency cards were superceded, much to the annoyance of many.

I have known recently of people up here being unable to register a new car without their residency certificate and apparantly more and more they are being asked for as the real world catches up with beaurocracy.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

There was a Royal Decree that scrapped the Residencia which came into force last year. However, the Residencia Card was replaced by the green sheet of paper.......and like everything in Spain, there are very large grey area's!!! I would follow Stravinky's advice and obtain the "Greeny" as he quite rightly says, without it, doing the most simpliest of things can become a nightmare!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Pasanada said:


> There was a Royal Decree that scrapped the Residencia which came into force last year. However, the Residencia Card was replaced by the green sheet of paper.......and like everything in Spain, there are very large grey area's!!! I would follow Stravinky's advice and obtain the "Greeny" as he quite rightly says, without it, doing the most simpliest of things can become a nightmare!


Yes the residency card was scrapped for sure. I cant remember the exact reasons but it was something to do with forces bought to bear by the EU on Spain. This has been heavily discussed on another forum a while back and all the advice that people have received from abogados and gestors confirms that it is a legal requirement to have a residencia cert as this was the Spanish Governments reaction to the EU pressure. In fact I believe that nowadays the NIE and Residencia are the same form
I do know of someone up Valencia way that was stopped and asked for one and when unable to produce they were warned that they must get one immediately.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes the residency card was scrapped for sure. I cant remember the exact reasons but it was something to do with forces bought to bear by the EU on Spain. This has been heavily discussed on another forum a while back and all the advice that people have received from abogados and gestors confirms that it is a legal requirement to have a residencia cert as this was the Spanish Governments reaction to the EU pressure. In fact I believe that nowadays the NIE and Residencia are the same form
> I do know of someone up Valencia way that was stopped and asked for one and when unable to produce they were warned that they must get one immediately.


I have an offical piece of paper with my NIE number on it AND a certificate of residentia - another piece of paper. I carry these, my passport and driving licence around with me everywhere! Eventhough the foriegn office states not to carry your passport or official documents with you, the Spanish GC insist you do!!??

I've actually photocopied my NIE and residentia a few times cos the originals would be in bits by now. The GC seem ok with that, mind you they are good photocopies!??

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm not sure what the situation is with NON-EU expats though. The South Americans I know seem to be applying for the card still.


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## Burriana Babs (Nov 22, 2007)

Well here we go again. Residency YES/N0) ........ Yes you do need a residence certificate. Both EU and non EU need to register. EU receive a certificate and Non EU will receive an ID card. See the web page attached http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help...s/living-in-spain/entry-resident-requirements

Residency and NIE are two different things. But if you file for your residencia they will issue your NIE at the same time if you do not already have one.

Yes we did have to furnish photos and did have an appointment we had to attend to verify identity. But using the gestor it was quite easy as he did all the work we just showed up only when needed at pre made appointments, once for my hubby which is an EU citizen and twice for me being non EU dependant family member.


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Wow who would have thought that such a simple thing as being legal in the country of residence would create such a long discussion. Anyway just to clarify a couple of things, while my husband and I are technically Australians and therefore Non-Eu members we have both managed to obtain English Citizenship prior to leaving Australia which makes us effectively EU citizens. We entered the EU and Spain on British Passports. While I do have a job, at the moment I am not paying social security or taxes as I do not have an NIE, my children are enrolled in schools on the basis that I will furnish the schools as soon as possible with the correct identity documents, including residency and NIE for all of us. My 16 year old daughter will not be allowed to remain in the Bachillerate at school without residency and proof that she has NIE, and completed relevant levels in her country of origin. They are graciously allowing us the time to achieve these requirements as the director speaks english and understands the difficulties of beaurocracy. So with all this said, we have been advised by my brothers spanish lawyer to take the following steps. 

1. Empadronament
2. Residency for my husband and myself only
3. NIE for my husband and myself only
4. CEE for the children
5. NIE for the children
6. Translation and Homogulation of schooling reports and certificates for all of us.

I hope this makes sense. I understand the CEE to be a kind of residency for non-eu dependents of EU members and this must be done in Barcelona.

My only question now is taking up residency in one country like spain - does this mean I am no longer a resident of my country of origin. Can you have residency in more than one country?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

dizzy said:


> My only question now is taking up residency in one country like spain - does this mean I am no longer a resident of my country of origin. Can you have residency in more than one country?


For some time in the '90's - I was resident in Germany (fully fledged tax paying etc) and also had UK residency - BUT in the UK was declared as NOT RESIDENT FOR THE PURPOSES OF TAXATION. Whether this still applies I do not know. But is it an issue?

The list - YUP - all of that
1. Empadronament
2. Residency for my husband and myself only
3. NIE for my husband and myself only
4. CEE for the children
5. NIE for the children
6. Translation and Homogulation of schooling reports and certificates for all of us.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Thats the basic point of everything, when I came a resident in Spain I became a non resident in the UK, hence lost my entitlement to the health system etc etc. In fact when I had to visit a doctor in the UK on a visit back I was treated like a foreigner and had to pay!!

So you are right, if you live here permanently you are resident HERE. However you are still a citizen of your country of birth (unless of course you eventually choose to change!)


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

It is important to me as being an Australian entitles me to certain benefit payments and I do not want to loose them. But it would appear on the face of it that I will be allowed to continue to recieve these payments for 13 weeks and then no more unless I can prove that I am also resident in Australia for a minimum of 13 weeks per year. The cost of the airfares to go home is more than I recieve so it will not be worth my while to pursue this, unfortunately.

Oh well the price you pay for living in paradise I guess.....

Like I said before thanks to everyone for their input on this subject - we are going tomorrow morning at 6.30am (this is the time only vampires are returning to their lairs, no sane person is about at this time of day) So tomorrow hopefully I will be able to post that it is all done with no dramas. Somehow I have a feeling that will not be the case. I am beginning to believe very much in the Spanish Manana concepts... We have been living in our new villa for 2 weeks and today finally the bathroom has been completed correctly. Now only if the hot water would work at the same time we would be able to shower in comfort. Oh well, nothing is ever easy.


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## Burriana Babs (Nov 22, 2007)

Not sure what benefits you are refering to, but you can only be resident in one place. That does not change your citizenship only your place of residence. 

You may want to do a bit more research as some benefits may be payable longer regardless of where you reside. know that is true for both England and the United States. Not all benefits but some.


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Hi everyone, just a quick note to say we arrived down at the Granollers Policia National at 7.10am and the line was already very long, but we did manage to get a ticket (40) and spent 3 hours wandering around and having many coffees before our number was called. We completed all the necessary documents and now have residency certificate and NIE. The interesting thing is that they are not issuing cards for NIE anymore and so as JoJo said recently we have to carry our passports and green piece of paper for the next 5 years until we have to renew it. A bit silly really - I think they will find they will have to change this as people will lose their paper or it will become damaged before it is time to renew.

Anyway by 11.30 we were all done. Thank God.


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## Burriana Babs (Nov 22, 2007)

dizzy said:


> Hi everyone, just a quick note to say we arrived down at the Granollers Policia National at 7.10am and the line was already very long, but we did manage to get a ticket (40) and spent 3 hours wandering around and having many coffees before our number was called. We completed all the necessary documents and now have residency certificate and NIE. The interesting thing is that they are not issuing cards for NIE anymore and so as JoJo said recently we have to carry our passports and green piece of paper for the next 5 years until we have to renew it. A bit silly really - I think they will find they will have to change this as people will lose their paper or it will become damaged before it is time to renew.
> 
> Anyway by 11.30 we were all done. Thank God.


What we have done is to have copies of our papers and passport made and then take them with the originals to the town hall and have them stamped. Then carry the copies and leave the originals in a safe place. You can even laminate them after they are stamped.


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