# Owning a gun



## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

We got together with some close friends this morning. It is amazing the range of topics we can cover in a couple hours; politics (US and Mexican), travel, shopping, home repairs - you name it.

Earlier this week I had this weird dream where a group of 'commandos' broke into our community and held all the neighborhood hostage at gunpoint. (We did have a failed unarmed attack at the front gate by a car full of men a few years back. That attempt was thwarted when a neighbor, accompanied by his three armed personal security people, just happened to drive up behind the 'attackers'. The police were called). 

Anyway, I mentioned my dream, and now that we are Mexican citizens I said - maybe we should get a gun. One of our friends, a 70+ year old, very intelligent woman said - oh I have two handguns in the bedroom. She said - but you (a mere citizen) are not allowed to have any guns. Well I disagreed with her, but didn't push it and let it go at - I'll have to investigate it.

So - it appears that we CAN own weapons. There is only one place in Mexico (an army post in Mexico City) where guns can be purchased. They have a wide array of weapons available (the price list is available on line). You are required to provide a sizable amount of documentation - including a good behavior letter from the state you live in. 

Just something we will have to give a little thought to.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Seriously? Oh, that's just what we need, more people with guns. Which, if you do the research, doesn't make life safer, it makes it less safe. 
I won't enter the US these days for exactly that reason- I would never live in or visit a country where someone could pull out a gun and shoot me because I looked at them sideways or accidentally took the parking spot they'd been waiting for.
This world needs less guns, not more.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

No worries. You wouldn't need to leave Mexico on my account. You simply would want to make sure you don't enter our home without being invited - particularly in the middle of the night. 

Last night starting at 11PM and lasting perhaps an hour I was awakened by the sound of gunshots. It started with four distinct shots, quiet for perhaps 10 minutes, another four shots etc. It didn't sound like a celebration - except for the gunshots the world was very quiet, no music, not even barking dogs. It also didn't sound like a gunfight. It was very close. I'll have to wait until tomorrow's news to see if anything is reported.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

We hear gun shots too but it never makes the news unless they find a body .. I think that once, in 18 years, the gardner told me what the shots were about otherwise as a rule no one pays much attention to gunshots.
You can own a gun whether you ar Mexican or not just do not get caught carrying it.

Plenty of Mexicans own guns.. just listen to the shots on the 15th of september..


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I guess I don't need to wait until tomorrow for the news.
"They attack a house with bullets in..." (google translated). About a half a mile away from us.
There is another source of news that will do a better job on a description tomorrow.

No celebration...


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Is this cartel related? It sure sounds like it.. if it is not , it is time to move...forget buying a gun get the hell out of there.


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## hyracer (Aug 14, 2011)

I CC in the States, we feel it's much more dangerous there than here in Mexico. Can things happen in Mexico? Yes, but if you stay away from buying/selling drugs or dealing with people that do I think you are pretty safe from major crime here.
Petty crime? Happens no matter where you live.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

hyracer said:


> I CC in the States, we feel it's much more dangerous there than here in Mexico. Can things happen in Mexico? Yes, but if you stay away from buying/selling drugs or dealing with people that do I think you are pretty safe from major crime here.
> Petty crime? Happens no matter where you live.


I have no idea what "CC in the States" means. Regarding your view of what crime is in Mexico, our impressions are very different.

We live in a rather affluent part of Mexico. Sure there are some areas that are nicer than others, and some areas I simply will not even drive through (much like every where else in Mexico). But I could almost ensure that if you were to walk into a bank and withdraw perhaps 50,000 pesos (2500 $US) - from a teller - you have a better than 50/50 chance of getting held up at gunpoint either on your way home, or at your own door. Happens very very often. Not petty crime. Last week someone did just that but instead of going home he went to a restaurant (where we have eaten often in the past). They demanded his money and when he refused he was shot dead in the restaurant. 

Speaking of restaurants, it is not uncommon at all for a group of 3 or 4 gunmen to arrive via motorcycle/taxi and hold the entire (upscale) restaurant hostage for their wallets/cell phones. And yes, people have been shot. Not petty crime. We still go out to eat (often) but to be honest, the layout of the restaurant comes into play when we decide where to go. By that I mean a place with tables in a garden well off the road so that someone can't just rob and then hop right on/in their get away vehicle. 

We don't live in fear - but we certainly live aware. 

Here is a link to a generic news related site (Mexico City). In the upper right hand corner you will see link for "Nuestros Sitios". If you click on that link you will see a list of something like 30+ regional newspapers, throughout Mexico. Randomly click around. Most sites have a "police" page. I just selected Leon. Petty Crime ? Cartel activity ? 

https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/

Now I will grant you that you don't hear much about expats being involved with crime - but it does happen. Part of the reason I think might be that expats often live expat lives. Often they don't live in Mexico year round. Often they live in expat communities. I have been told that they are not targeted for such things as kidnappings because it is assumed that their real 'stuff'/families are outside Mexico. 

We came to Mexico from South Florida which has to be right up there with Chicago when it comes to crime. In my opinion it doesn't come close to what happens in Mexico. 

But I started this thread because of my considering purchasing a gun - nothing more.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Living in an affluent part of Mexico maybe the problem , the thieves go fishing where the money is..The gun will not help when you are out in restaurants or in your car and you get kidnapped.. 
In the house it will ony help if you are not caught by surprise..so good luck to you .


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

citlali said:


> Living in an affluent part of Mexico maybe the problem , the thieves go fishing where the money is..The gun will not help when you are out in restaurants or in your car and you get kidnapped..
> In the house it will ony help if you are not caught by surprise..so good luck to you .


As I have already stated, the gun would only be used to secure us while we are in the house. 

Every opening in the house is monitored. But - if we are in the house and the alarm is triggered it does not sound our siren (which you will hear in Chiapis). Rather we will hear a simple ding-ding-ding. Yes we might miss it, maybe, but probably not. If we are NOT in the house the siren will sound, and the pets (and everyone in the area) will have their hands over their ears.

When we go to a restaurant we generally valet the car (when possible). We leave the cell phone in the car. I go through my wallet and leave at home anything I know we will not need. I usually only have enough cash to pay for the meal etc. But we personally have never had a problem in a restaurant. But I'll guess that in 2019, perhaps 4 of our usual haunts have had problems. Granted they are one time events. You often see security installed on site afterwards.

It is our preference anyway, but we generally only eat breakfast or brunch out. I do not like to eat after 2PM - but then again I am normally up at 4AM. If we do go out in the evening it is to a friend's house. 

I've no idea - do the sort of crimes I mention not occur in places like Guadalajara (and suburbs) ? I know they happen in Mexico City.

Edit : so today was our day in the garden. We have a nice guy who comes every Tuesday to help me. At the end of the day today my wife and I were in the car with him. My wife asks - so did you tell Jesus about your idea of buying a gun. No I replied. My wife asked - Jesus, do you have a gun in your house. Jesus answered, no but some of my family does. Most of Jesus' family live in the State of Guerrero (actually Taxco area). Jesus says - in Guerrero everyone has a gun.


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

Interesting thread. Always enjoy a discourse between two people who have opposing viewpoints, yet can remain civil and objective. 
Spending my formative years in Texas, and then my working years on and around around the Trans Alaska Pipeline, I have had a great many firearms pass through my ownership, both long ones and short ones. Currently living in Mexico, I have zero guns of any barrel length, but it wasn’t Mexico that drove that lifestyle change, firearms just lost their attraction to me through the years. 
I don’t necessarily believe that putting severe restrictions on firearm ownership back in the states is going to provide a quick relief from all gun crimes, but I’m also a realist, and I believe that there has to be a middle ground somewhere, some way to reduce the absurd number of mass shootings that seem to be increasing exponentially. Maybe it will come about when both sides of the aisle in DC begin working together for the true betterment of the US. 
Back on topic, since Mexico doesn’t have much in the area of a “Stand your ground” law, shooting someone, even in your own home, might be just the beginning of a long, expensive chapter in one’s life. 
Also, I see that the security personnel who help direct traffic at the Costco gas pumps now carry sidearms, big ones. From a glance, they look to be up in the area of a 45, possibly 9mm. My question there would be WTH is their purpose? A big gun shootout at the gas pump seems like the stuff of a Stallone movie.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Not long ago in an indigenous community the police arrived to haul off all the huachicoleros as they were arguing about the prices they should be selling the gas, they were off by one peso and were threatenng to shoot each other ...imagine that one, a shoot out in the middle of a bunch of gazoline cans that were piled up right next to them..Sometimes people are really crazy, not other word for it.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

That"everyone has a gun" doesn't mean those people are safer. It just means they have the illusion of being safer. The statistics are that more people are shot by their own gun that an intruder has managed to grab than that they were able to use the gun to protect themselves.
I live in a tourist beach town in Mexico. I live in the countryside, a little out of the centro. Homes are owned and occupied by a pretty even mix of foreigners and Mexicans. Have lived out here for 11 years, alone. No guns, no security cameras, no motion detectors, no locked gate, no multiple door locks, just a vigilant watchdog. I've never had a problem , never felt scared. Do violent incidents sometimes happen in the area? Of course they do, they happen almost everywhere on occasion. 
There were 2 home invasions here a couple of years ago- both were friends of mine. Having a gun wouldn't have helped them- the intruders were in the house, in masks, brandishing guns, knives and rope to tie them up, before the owners could have ever made it to a gun stashed somewhere. And that gun would have been discovered and made off with by the thieves. People envision lying in bed, hearing a noise in the house, and stealthily reaching into the bedside table for their gun and scaring off the intruders or protecting themselves, just like they see in the movies. It seldom happens like that.
If I felt I needed to have a gun, or live being constantly on guard, or not able to go out to a restaurant without taking multiple precautions, I'd move. I can't imagine living that way.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I've never owned a gun and I don't think I've fired one since I was a Boy Scout. (Well except for a spear gun). If I were to purchase a gun (from the Mexican Army) it might be either a Glock 19 or perhaps a Sig Sauer P226.

They don't pump gas at our nearest Costco. Aside from the people you would expect to see with weapons, the only I have seen in Mexico are the concealed weapons the live-in body guards have in our neighborhood. 

We don't fly all that much, much less into the US. On a recent (internal) trip, the crew on our plane said something like - those of you continuing on into the US will need to undergo a brief interview at this time. When I got home I researched it and apparently the US screening process has been pushed out across the world. Apparently US CBP now has staff at all locations WITHIN Mexico from which you can reach the US. The sticking point in setting that up - CBP insisted that their personnel be armed ! Now why does a CBP interviewer at Mexico City's airport need a weapon ?

We lived in an incredible oasis in South Florida for many years. Our town opted out of the security you saw used at that school in Parkland and had its own 12 person or so crew. But - one of the things that really annoyed me was that cameras were installed at most every intersection. They even had devices which read every incoming vehicle's license plate and ran a real time check on the car. I saw it in action on one visit to the police station. I didn't like it but it was effective. They caught so many bad guys/stolen cars that they used all the reward monies to - buy more cameras ! 

We have recently sat down with a couple realtors here. The market is dead. It very well may be dead until the next government is voted in (5 years from now). If we were to move from here it probably would be to a Mexican beach. As I write this my choice would be Acapulco - where I'm sure we would have to apply the same precautions we use today.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Earlier this week I wrote on this thread - " I could almost ensure that if you were to walk into a bank and withdraw perhaps 50,000 pesos (2500 $US) - from a teller - you have a better than 50/50 chance of getting held up at gunpoint either on your way home, or at your own door."

So I'm reading this evenings news and what do I read - "They steal $ 50,000 from a man after leaving the bank... A booty of 50 thousand pesos obtained two armed subjects, after assaulting a man when he arrived at his home ... after he withdrew the money from a Santander branch, so police took knowledge of the robbery."

Update on the shooting near our home this week - We have it on good info - the woman who comes once a week to help my wife around the house - that the house which was attacked belonged to two brothers who left the US (deported ?) and started up a stolen car ring here in Mexico. The shooting was in retribution. 

Retribution is a big theme in these parts. But - there is a better term for it which I'm not recalling. The practice goes back hundreds of years. The community issues its own justice, swiftly. Sure police come around to write up a report after a crime, but there are no police stations. The police do not patrol the streets, on foot or in vehicles.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

*Guns at home*

Owning a gun at home does work on many cases, not all
Many people have different opinions about gun ownership; the ones that don’t like guns, well, just don’t buy one. 
It’s legal in Mexico to own and carry a gun, after lots of red tape 
If I were living in a high crime area, I would rather move out from there
In either case, I feel safer with a gun in the house (and being familiar with it) 
In many Countries people own guns and there are not as many cases of killings at schools, walmarts, mc Donalds, highways , etc. Take Sweden as an example. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people, with guns, stones, or whatever they find. Once a person decides to take another one’s life, they do it with anything


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

GARYJ65 said:


> Owning a gun at home does work on many cases, not all
> Many people have different opinions about gun ownership; the ones that don’t like guns, well, just don’t buy one.
> It’s legal in Mexico to own and carry a gun, after lots of red tape
> If I were living in a high crime area, I would rather move out from there
> ...


It's the speed and ease with which you can kill someone with a gun that makes them so dangerous. A lone person can commit mass murder- killing scores of people in a matter of minutes. You can't do that with a stone, a knife, or a baseball bat.
And those things have other purposes, for the most part. A gun is designed for one thing- to wound or kill another living creature.


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## Maryy (Oct 31, 2019)

surabi said:


> That"everyone has a gun" doesn't mean those people are safer. It just means they have the illusion of being safer. The statistics are that more people are shot by their own gun that an intruder has managed to grab than that they were able to use the gun to protect themselves.
> I live in a tourist beach town in Mexico. I live in the countryside, a little out of the centro. Homes are owned and occupied by a pretty even mix of foreigners and Mexicans. Have lived out here for 11 years, alone. No guns, no security cameras, no motion detectors, no locked gate, no multiple door locks, just a vigilant watchdog. I've never had a problem , never felt scared. Do violent incidents sometimes happen in the area? Of course they do, they happen almost everywhere on occasion.
> There were 2 home invasions here a couple of years ago- both were friends of mine. Having a gun wouldn't have helped them- the intruders were in the house, in masks, brandishing guns, knives and rope to tie them up, before the owners could have ever made it to a gun stashed somewhere. And that gun would have been discovered and made off with by the thieves. People envision lying in bed, hearing a noise in the house, and stealthily reaching into the bedside table for their gun and scaring off the intruders or protecting themselves, just like they see in the movies. It seldom happens like that.
> If I felt I needed to have a gun, or live being constantly on guard, or not able to go out to a restaurant without taking multiple precautions, I'd move. I can't imagine living that way.


I totally agree with you! Most people buy a gun and keep it at home for safety, but are not really able to use it. They can be shot not only by intruder, but accidentally they can shot a family member or themselves, it sounds ridiculous but if you google, you'll fine lots of such cases


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

If you do not practice with the gun you own, you are more in danger with a gun than without..
Several times in our lives we lived in very isolated areas and I found myself alone in the woods. After an inciddent on the Fowl river in Alabama where someone came up at night via our canal and came up to the house to check it out as I was in bed,, We bought a shot gun an 38 and a dog.. There was no help to be had on that property as we were isolated in a swamp.. We lived in a shack which is probably why the man did not come in and went to steal up river where the nice homes that were mostly vacants were...

I could use a shot gun but I had never fired a hand gun.. and my first tries were a disaster, I could not hit anything even very close.. Without practice that gun would have been totally useless.
I also had the same weapons when we lived up in the hills in Sonoma county, I scared away a thief once and also a man who had come to look for trouble . I am not anti gun but here in Mexico I do not see the same need that out in the woods. We are surrounded by people and we do not have anything that we cannot live without.. If they want an old TV be my guest.. I have no jewelry and no cash..so get the cars...
At this stage in my life I do not see shooting a gun to protect property .

I have to say I am 100% against any civilian owning guns that shoot I do not know how many bullets a second.. those are warweapons and should not be in the hands of any civilian.


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## dwwhiteside (Apr 17, 2013)

I was, I believe, 12 when I got my first "gun." Just a BB gun but, it was a gun to me. At 16, I got a 12-gauge shotgun. And when I was a little older, a .45 cal pistol. The point being, I grew up around guns. 

However, I do not own a gun today and have no desire to own one. I have no issue with decent, law abiding folks who, for whatever reason, want to own one. I just don't feel the need to own one myself.

My wife also grew up around guns. In fact, her father was a gunsmith in Mexico, before 1968 when the laws here changed. She has mentioned several times that she would like to have a gun in the house. However, I have convinced her that it really isn't necessary.

What we do have are strong doors with good locks, a security system that includes cameras, and Jack.









Jack is around 32 kilos of muscle and teeth. And he is very obedient and very protective. All things considered, I feel much safer having Jack in my house than I would with a gun in my house. And he is a lot more fun to be around.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I also grew up around guns, in Alaska most everybody did. I still have a .22 caliber rifle, a .270 caliber rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun. I had all three by the time I was 12 or so, I don't remember exactly. None of them are currently in México, although I have thought about trying to get permission to bring them here. I keep them mostly out of nostalgia, they are the only thing left from my childhood. When I am in the US, I occasionally do a little target shooting with them. I stopped hunting nearly 60 years ago. That practice was a part of my childhood that I happily left behind. I am vegan now.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

At one point I had a friend who belonged to a gun club and from time to time we would go skeet shooting. (I had forgotten that part of my life). But I have never owned a gun.

Last week we had an early morning conversation (in the street) with a neighbor's four (armed) body guards who were waiting for the kids to get ready for school. They were familiar with the army post in Mexico City which sells guns. I mentioned my possible selections and they made some recommendations.

Apparently there is somewhat of a shooting range not too far from here, but much closer is a decent sized forest I'm sure I could use for practice.

In fairness, about half the people I have mentioned purchasing a gun to are supportive of the idea (interestingly mostly women). 

I'm rounding up a little, but in the nearly 10 years we have lived here civilization has kind of grown out to our community. In fact we are just now right about where it is cresting, bringing with it the late night criminal activity, which is looking for less-populated places I suspect. But I know that a location very near us that is always painted as a quaint, magical place is undergoing similar changes. 

One of the things that sold us on our place to live is that it may be the only place we found where houses don't NEED security/privacy walls on the four sides of the lot. You can stand in the street in front of our house, look through the house and see way off in the distance out the back of the house (we are elevated).


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

sounds like the perfect place to stake out and rob! I sure would not have a house that is like an aquarium from the street. I like high walls and gates, that is why I came to Mexico. The open houses in Californi and Alabamaa in the country made me feel very exposed.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Funny - I would never consider living in Lake Chapala nor Chiapis. Visit perhaps, but never reside.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Every one is different...probably depends on what you are used to as well but I lived in Alabama and California so i lived where places are open to the street and I know I do not like it .. I like to experiment before I make up my mind,


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Fair enough - we will be sure to not invite you to the open house should we decide to put the house on the market...


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Ha ha fair enough..


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

surabi said:


> It's the speed and ease with which you can kill someone with a gun that makes them so dangerous. A lone person can commit mass murder- killing scores of people in a matter of minutes. You can't do that with a stone, a knife, or a baseball bat.
> And those things have other purposes, for the most part. A gun is designed for one thing- to wound or kill another living creature.


Yes, yes, and yes
But on the other hand, you can defend yourself with that ease and speed
Come on, the world has never been safe or perfect
Living creatures attack each other, including humans
Then, if you were to be attacked, what would you prefer to have, a baseball bat? A stone? A knife? 
By the way, all of those would need force, speed and mastership to be effective. How many of us have it?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Maryy said:


> I totally agree with you! Most people buy a gun and keep it at home for safety, but are not really able to use it. They can be shot not only by intruder, but accidentally they can shot a family member or themselves, it sounds ridiculous but if you google, you'll fine lots of such cases


I agree on this 100%
If you are going to use ANYTHING, you must learn how to use it
Cars, microwave ovens, guns, ANYTHING


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## Trad+Cath+2022 (Jan 2, 2022)

lat19n said:


> We got together with some close friends this morning. It is amazing the range of topics we can cover in a couple hours; politics (US and Mexican), travel, shopping, home repairs - you name it.
> 
> Earlier this week I had this weird dream where a group of 'commandos' broke into our community and held all the neighborhood hostage at gunpoint. (We did have a failed unarmed attack at the front gate by a car full of men a few years back. That attempt was thwarted when a neighbor, accompanied by his three armed personal security people, just happened to drive up behind the 'attackers'. The police were called).
> 
> ...


Guns save lives and protect freedom. Just ask the Colonists of the Revolutionary War. The same central banking families still control the planet, so nothing has changed since then.

Do a Youtube or Google search for home made guns. You can buy some pipe and get some shotgun shells and have something that's as effective as sawed off shotgun that can be disassembled in a few seconds so that it's no longer a gun. Protect your family and your community. Global communism is not a good thing.

People who tell you guns are bad are gullible. They don't look at the govt data that shows that gun crime is a historic low in the US, and it's going lower all the time. The ones to fear are the central banking families that have corrupted government, for the purpose of pursing global communism.


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