# A message for property owners.



## Sam

For anybody who owns a property in Egypt and has concerns about their legal status as a foreign owner, please read the statement below.

I am ready to answer any questions that may rise from this, either publicly or via PM if it is a personal issue.

Sam




Dear All,

I am writing this statement to clarify the current legal situation for non-Egyptian property purchasers in Egypt. As you all probably know, there had been some major political events in Egypt, leading the former president Mohammad Hosni Mubarak to step down, and the entire regime which most Egyptians like to describe as "dictatorship" to collapse as a consequence.

Please be informed that Egypt is an institutional country, whereas laws and different institutions are the governing bases of legal issues. Political powers can change, and are actually supposed to, but laws remain laws. It is an old, decent, and organized country when it comes to legal positions and the like.

The law governing foreigners purchasing properties in Egypt is law number 230 of 1996, and it is not even a separate law, but actually it is part of the Egyptian Civil Law. The aforementioned law remains the same, as nothing can change it. Foreigners in the said law share the same protection covering Egyptian citizens' interests, and nothing can / will change this. 

All the current Egyptian powers, and Egyptian people themselves, respect Egyptian treaties and conventions, let alone law. Legal positions of foreigners, by law, are equal in power and stability to these of Egyptians.

In April 2005, there was a decree issued by the former Prime Minister Dr. Ahmad Nazeef, restricting foreigners' ownership in the territory of Sharm el Sheikh to usufruct right only, for the maximum period of 99 years. The aforementioned resolution was followed by another in February 2007, restricting developers from obtaining freehold rights on Sinai Peninsula, Suez, and Ismaila. 

Whilst laws may not change, and as a basic and ESSENTIAL rule in Egyptian law, laws' changes, if any, do not take place in a retroactive manner, with a single exception; a new criminal rule that would benefit a convict. Applying the said basic rule on the current situation, provided that the rules concerning foreigner investors are civil law rules. Any potential changes are not retroactive. Subsequently all foreign investments are entirely safe in Egypt, not just from a practical and logical perspective, but from a legal perspective as well. 

When it comes to the above mentioned decrees issued by the former Prime Minister, they can be annulled and revoked of course, but in that case the general civil law rules will apply, entitling non-Egyptians to have freehold rights on the formerly restricted zones. However, it is legally prohibited that a new decree might apply further restrictions to the already existent rights. This is how the Egyptian legal system works, and it is an old, stable, and decent legal system, based on French law, and applied for hundreds of years. Egypt is a well-rooted country in the field of law, and political events may change a lot of things in the country, but not legal rights and legal positions. Again the only change that might occur is a change for the better, since the former Prime Minister's decrees potential annulment may only result in granting non-Egyptians freehold rights on the zones of Sinai Peninsula, including Sharm el Sheikh, Suez, and Ismailia.

For those who already obtained usufruct rights in Egypt, in areas such as Sharm el Sheikh, it is not guaranteed that their rights may be promoted to freehold. Since usufruct is an old, and established right in the Egyptian civil law. The Prime Minister's decree did not create it. It was there for hundreds of years. Therefore a new amendment might benefit only new purchasers, but not the already existent ones, but in all cases no one CAN be harmed. The guarantee here is law itself, as explained before already. 

Zeiad Yehia
Barrister


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## Horus

Does it really matter though I can't see myself living to be past 100 in the heat here anyway walking up to the Metro with a zimmer frame and falling asleep in the Jive Bar or having the belly dancers give me a coronary - just buy it and enjoy it before an earthquake flattens it anyway


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## aykalam

Horus said:


> Does it really matter though I can't see myself living to be past 100 in the heat here anyway walking up to the Metro with a zimmer frame and falling asleep in the Jive Bar or having the belly dancers give me a coronary - just buy it and enjoy it before an earthquake flattens it anyway


Of course it matters, especially if you have children/grandchildren!

@Sam, thank you for posting this thread :clap2:


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## wales1970

Thanks sam,nice to hear something positive..


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## bat

Sam said:


> For anybody who owns a property in Egypt and has concerns about their legal status as a foreign owner, please read the statement below.
> 
> I am ready to answer any questions that may rise from this, either publicly or via PM if it is a personal issue.
> 
> Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I am writing this statement to clarify the current legal situation for non-Egyptian property purchasers in Egypt. As you all probably know, there had been some major political events in Egypt, leading the former president Mohammad Hosni Mubarak to step down, and the entire regime which most Egyptians like to "dictatorship" to collapse as a consequence.
> 
> Please be informed that Egypt is an institutional country, whereas laws and different institutions are the governing bases of legal issues. Political powers can change, and are actually supposed to, but laws remain laws. It is an old, decent, and organized country when it comes to legal positions and the like.
> 
> The law governing foreigners purchasing properties in Egypt is law number 230 of 1996, and it is not even a separate law, but actually it is part of the Egyptian Civil Law. The aforementioned law remains the same, as nothing can change it. Foreigners in the said law share the same protection covering Egyptian citizens' interests, and nothing can / will change this.
> 
> All the current Egyptian powers, and Egyptian people themselves, respect Egyptian treaties and conventions, let alone law. Legal positions of foreigners, by law, are equal in power and stability to these of Egyptian
> 
> In April 2005, there was a decree issued by the former Prime Minister Dr. Ahmad Nazeef, restricting foreigners' ownership in the territory of Sharm el Sheikh to usufruct right only, for the maximum period of 99 years. The aforementioned resolution was followed by another in February 2007, restricting developers from obtaining freehold rights on Sinai Peninsula, Suez, and Ismaila.
> 
> Whilst laws may not change, and as a basic and ESSENTIAL rule in Egyptian law, laws' changes, if any, do not take place in a retroactive manner, with a single exception; a new criminal rule that would benefit a convict. Applying the said basic rule on the current situation, provided that the rules concerning foreigner investors are civil law rules. Any potential changes are not retroactive. Subsequently all foreign investments are entirely safe in Egypt, not just from a practical and logical perspective, but from a legal perspective as well.
> 
> When it comes to the above mentioned decrees issued by the former Prime Minister, they can be annulled and revoked of course, but in that case the general civil law rules will apply, entitling non-Egyptians to have freehold rights on the formerly restricted zones. However, it is legally prohibited that a new decree might apply further restrictions to the already existent rights. This is how the Egyptian legal system works, and it is an old, stable, and decent legal system, based on French law, and applied for hundreds of years. Egypt is a well-rooted country in the field of law, and political events may change a lot of things in the country, but not legal rights and legpositions. Again the only change that might occur is a change for the better, since the former Prime Minister's decrees potential annulment may only result in granting non-Egyptians freehold rights on the zones of Sinai Peninsula, including Sharm el Sheikh, Suez, and Ismailia.
> 
> For those who already obtained usufruct rights in Egypt, in areas such as Sharm el Sheikh, it is not guaranteed that their rights may be promoted to freehold. Since usufruct is an old, and established right in the Egyptian civil law. The Prime Minister's decree did not create it. It was there for hundreds of years. Therefore a new
> 
> 
> 
> amendment might benefit only new purchasers, but not the already existent ones, b
> in all cases no one CAN be harmed. The guarantee here is law itself, as explained
> before already.
> 
> Zeiad Yehia
> Barrister


Egyptian law fails it's own people in regard to the law, so how can there be a guarantee no one can be harmed,who exactly is going to guarantee this for foreigners if Egyptians themselves don't have this guarantee .as for sharm only the army has said they will respect agreement of deals made with Israel , due to monies they receive, but not so with others, so after the election all bets may be off, and sharm to close to border, whose going to protect foreign investment then?


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## MaidenScotland

bat said:


> Egyptian law fails it's own people in regard to the law, so how can there be a guarantee no one can be harmed,who exactly is going to guarantee this for foreigners if Egyptians themselves don't have this guarantee .as for sharm only the army has said they will respect agreement of deals made with Israel , due to monies they receive, but not so with others, so after the election all bets may be off, and sharm to close to border, whose going to protect foreign investment then?




I have to say I agree with you.. and I did have this conversation with Sam yesterday.

Who enforces Egyptian law? here are several laws that are broken constantly
You cannot use a mobile phone whilst driving,
You must turn on your headlights at nigh whilst driving
You must not drive down a one way street the wrong way.
You must follow the no smoking signs.
All children must go to school
Children will not be used as cheap labour.
You have the right to vote

and so on and so on.... just because it says it's the law doesn't mean it will be upheld.


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## MaidenScotland

Regular posters may well remember when I wrote about my building maintenance payments which are mega mega bucks paid in US dollars and drawn up by a lawyer. When I lost furniture and silk screens because of flooding due to lack of basic maintenance in the building the company would do nothing for me not even clean the storeroom that was flooded and I was calling the lawyer only to be told "You're not in America"


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> I have to say I agree with you.. and I did have this conversation with Sam yesterday.
> 
> Who enforces Egyptian law? here are several laws that are broken constantly
> You cannot use a mobile phone whilst driving,
> You must turn on your headlights at nigh whilst driving
> You must not drive down a one way street the wrong way.
> You must follow the no smoking signs.
> All children must go to school
> Children will not be used as cheap labour.
> You have the right to vote
> 
> and so on and so on.... just because it says it's the law doesn't mean it will be upheld.


It's not only that the courts are full regarding ownership of buildings, ownership of land,family disputes regarding ownership after death, illegal land sales, land grabs, illegal licences, selling of same apartment many times over,the list is endless. If Egyptians themselves can be in court many years 20-30 more what chance have foreigners got.also there's not much sympathy for foreigners except amongst foreigners them selves(9/11)I was here then,and in reality till all the dust settles, nobody can guarantee anything to anybody


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## MaidenScotland

Yes wonder what happens to the land that was sold to the minster for 1 LE who then sold it on to a developer.. I believe "Egypt" wants the full cost of this land back but who will pay it?


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> Regular posters may well remember when I wrote about my building maintenance payments which are mega mega bucks paid in US dollars and drawn up by a lawyer. When I lost furniture and silk screens because of flooding due to lack of basic maintenance in the building the company would do nothing for me not even clean the storeroom that was flooded and I was calling the lawyer only to be told "You're not in America"


As I said no sympathy, btw many Egyptians refuse to pay building maitinence,and not much you can do about it either except stay years in court.


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## MensEtManus

Some scenarios the bedoin typically do to take over land

1) Build a mosque in your land (of course they will also build a house adjacent to the mosque)
2) Bury several sarcophagus and claim property of land
3) Falsify documents that they have been renting the land from you and things go to court for x amount of years. In order for you to salvage the land, you cut a deal for them to drop the case.

Ultimately, the fear from the bedoin is far larger than the government.


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## bat

MensEtManus said:


> Some scenarios the bedoin typically do to take over land
> 
> 1) Build a mosque in your land (of course they will also build a house adjacent to the mosque)
> 2) Bury several sarcophagus and claim property of land
> 3) Falsify documents that they have been renting the land from you and things go to court for x amount of years. In order for you to salvage the land, you cut a deal for them to drop the case.
> 
> Ultimately, the fear from the bedoin is far larger than the government.


Or you buy, on the other side of the road from the beach,and told you have full access to said beach,then when the properties are all sold you find another company in charge of running the place, standards drop , payments rise and you no longer have access to said beach.


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## Fiona08

Thanks Sam

What great information to put our m inds at rest! Thank you so much for getting hold of this info. My husband and I are delighted and so look forward to when Moona sharm is up and running and we can get our apartment.

Fiona


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## Sam

To Bat, Maiden, Mens etc (can't remember who else queried, sorry),

As MS and I discussed a couple of days ago, laws are only as good as the ones who uphold it. The majority of "cases" that we take on are solved amicably out of court, since court procedures can take such a long time, but ultimately laws and courts are there to be used and to protect people. 

I shall ask Zeiad, the author of the original statement, to comment from a professional level on these posts, but on a personal level I can say that nobody is above the law. For example Hisham Talaat Moustafa (I hope I got his name right), the very wealthy and powerful owner for HTM group who killed a woman, or more specifically hired a hitman to kill a woman. Despite his wealth and position he is still being tried and prosecuted for murder. 

When it comes the Mens' comment on bedouin landgrabs, it is something I have heard of, but we always warn our clients on the high risk areas where this is likely to happen, for example in Dahab. The standard case when foreigners purchase property is that they buy within a resort owned by a developer, and I have never heard of any case where a bedouin has tried to claim such property. The more likely problems here are examples such as Bat has raised, being promised beach access that isn't followed through, or worse still failure to build. A lawyer can check paperwork for all these issues, for example if the developer owns the piece of beach or has a legitimate contract for it etc. Similarly lawyers can request to see proof of funds to allow to complete the developments etc. Buying a property will always pose a risk, the idea is to minimise the risks where possible. But the idea of the initial statement is not to tell people that whatever or wherever they buy in Egypt there is safety guaranteed, it is to make people realise that they shouldn't worry property they already own or are planning to own being taken from them just because of a change of government, as this just wouldn't happen.

Anyway, to answer properly the legal concerns I shall ask Zeiad and try to post within the next few days his response.


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## bat

Sam said:


> To Bat, Maiden, Mens etc (can't remember who else queried, sorry),
> 
> As MS and I discussed a couple of days ago, laws are only as good as the ones who uphold it. The majority of "cases" that we take on are solved amicably out of court, since court procedures can take such a long time, but ultimately laws and courts are there to be used and to protect people.
> 
> I shall ask Zeiad, the author of the original statement, to comment from a professional level on these posts, but on a personal level I can say that nobody is above the law. For example Hisham Talaat Moustafa (I hope I got his name right), the very wealthy and powerful owner for HTM group who killed a woman, or more specifically hired a hitman to kill a woman. Despite his wealth and position he is still being tried and prosecuted for murder.
> 
> When it comes the Mens' comment on bedouin landgrabs, it is something I have heard of, but we always warn our clients on the high risk areas where this is likely to happenfor example in Dahab. The standard case when foreigners purchase property is that they buy within a resort owned by a developer, and I have never heard of any case where a bedouin has tried to claim such property. The more likely problems here are examples such as Bat has raised, being promised beach access that isn't followed through, or worse still failure to build. A lawyer can check paperwork for all these issues, for example if the developer owns the piece of beach or has a legitimate contract for it etc. Similarly lawyers can request to see proof of funds to allow to complete the developments etc. Buying a property will always pose a risk, the idea is to minimise the risks where possible. But the idea of the initial statement is not to telpeople that whatever or wherever they buy in Egypt there is safety guaranteed, it is to make people realise that they shouldn't worry property they already own or are planning to own being taken from them just because of a change of government, as this just wouldn't happen.
> 
> Anyway, to answer properly the legal concerns I shall ask Zeiad and try to post within the next few days his response.


Regarding talat he was sentenced to hang, then it's reduced to 5 yrs by next year he will be out. Weres the justice in that.


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## MaidenScotland

bat said:


> Regarding talat he was sentenced to hang, then it's reduced to 5 yrs by next year he will be out. Weres the justice in that.





Would he have been tried for her murder if she hadn't been foreign plus a very famous singer?


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## Lanason

Pheonix500 said:


> I would not trust Ziead Yehia or Edgebridge Law firm. Do your own Google search!


Hello and welcome to the forum


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## Lanason

Pheonix500 said:


> Sory I have been given an infraction for my last remark. Can anyone tell me how I convey unsatisfactory service from someone without getting an infraction.


Well a good idea is to come in say hello and introduce yourself 
Many people have agendas, business interests, advertising etc

Also may be a good idea to substantiate your views with an example or personal story or are you an employee of one of these companies ???


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## Whitedesert

Sam said:


> For anybody who owns a property in Egypt and has concerns about their legal status as a foreign owner, please read the statement below.
> 
> I am ready to answer any questions that may rise from this, either publicly or via PM if it is a personal issue.
> 
> Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I am writing this statement to clarify the current legal situation for non-Egyptian property purchasers in Egypt. As you all probably know, there had been some major political events in Egypt, leading the former president Mohammad Hosni Mubarak to step down, and the entire regime which most Egyptians like to describe as "dictatorship" to collapse as a consequence.
> 
> Please be informed that Egypt is an institutional country, whereas laws and different institutions are the governing bases of legal issues. Political powers can change, and are actually supposed to, but laws remain laws. It is an old, decent, and organized country when it comes to legal positions and the like.
> 
> The law governing foreigners purchasing properties in Egypt is law number 230 of 1996, and it is not even a separate law, but actually it is part of the Egyptian Civil Law. The aforementioned law remains the same, as nothing can change it. Foreigners in the said law share the same protection covering Egyptian citizens' interests, and nothing can / will change this.
> 
> All the current Egyptian powers, and Egyptian people themselves, respect Egyptian treaties and conventions, let alone law. Legal positions of foreigners, by law, are equal in power and stability to these of Egyptians.
> 
> In April 2005, there was a decree issued by the former Prime Minister Dr. Ahmad Nazeef, restricting foreigners' ownership in the territory of Sharm el Sheikh to usufruct right only, for the maximum period of 99 years. The aforementioned resolution was followed by another in February 2007, restricting developers from obtaining freehold rights on Sinai Peninsula, Suez, and Ismaila.
> 
> Whilst laws may not change, and as a basic and ESSENTIAL rule in Egyptian law, laws' changes, if any, do not take place in a retroactive manner, with a single exception; a new criminal rule that would benefit a convict. Applying the said basic rule on the current situation, provided that the rules concerning foreigner investors are civil law rules. Any potential changes are not retroactive. Subsequently all foreign investments are entirely safe in Egypt, not just from a practical and logical perspective, but from a legal perspective as well.
> 
> When it comes to the above mentioned decrees issued by the former Prime Minister, they can be annulled and revoked of course, but in that case the general civil law rules will apply, entitling non-Egyptians to have freehold rights on the formerly restricted zones. However, it is legally prohibited that a new decree might apply further restrictions to the already existent rights. This is how the Egyptian legal system works, and it is an old, stable, and decent legal system, based on French law, and applied for hundreds of years. Egypt is a well-rooted country in the field of law, and political events may change a lot of things in the country, but not legal rights and legal positions. Again the only change that might occur is a change for the better, since the former Prime Minister's decrees potential annulment may only result in granting non-Egyptians freehold rights on the zones of Sinai Peninsula, including Sharm el Sheikh, Suez, and Ismailia.
> 
> For those who already obtained usufruct rights in Egypt, in areas such as Sharm el Sheikh, it is not guaranteed that their rights may be promoted to freehold. Since usufruct is an old, and established right in the Egyptian civil law. The Prime Minister's decree did not create it. It was there for hundreds of years. Therefore a new amendment might benefit only new purchasers, but not the already existent ones, but in all cases no one CAN be harmed. The guarantee here is law itself, as explained before already.
> 
> Zeiad Yehia
> Barrister


 Sounds nice, not my experience in Egypt I must add. Glad I never considered investing in property here.


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## Pheonix500

*Thanks*



Lanason said:


> Well a good idea is to come in say hello and introduce yourself
> Many people have agendas, business interests, advertising etc
> 
> Also may be a good idea to substantiate your views with an example or personal story or are you an employee of one of these companies ???



Thanks but every time I give my story I get an Infraction. I will try again but mention no names.

I was conned out of an investment in Hurghada. I employed a lawyer to help me. This Lawyer instructed another lawyer in Hurghada. This instruct lawyer proceeded to sign the POA for the properties to himself behind our backs. The first lawyer then instructed another lawyer who then proceeded to work with the builders who conned me in the first place charging me double / triple for everything like electricity connection (£900). The first Lawyer has now managed to secure 2 contracts for 2 apartments but is keeping one of the contracts. He will not communicate. I dont here from him. I have no communication with the builder who ripped me off. 

So I have 2 contracts, A lawyer who I can't contact and no one I can trust. I don't know if I can sell or what to do. The contracts do not include any terms and cond over communial areas. So I don't know what I can do?


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## Eco-Mariner

Steve.. The world knows your problems. Why bring it here on this forum?
Solutions for change are surfacing. Like we say to the Egyptian Youth, please be patient, you may not get what you want today but tomorrow maybe is where you will find answers.


Eco - Mariner.


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## Pheonix500

Thanks Eco-Mariner. Why bring it here on this forum? Why not, that is what a forum is isn't it? My story is true and its right that others should be aware.


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## hurghadapat

Pheonix500 said:


> Thanks Eco-Mariner. Why bring it here on this forum? Why not, that is what a forum is isn't it? My story is true and its right that others should be aware.


i think the moral of the story is....research the country well before investing in property.It's a well known fact that it is very hard to find an honest lawyer in Egypt.


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## Pheonix500

You are the first person to publically say it's hard to find an honest Lawyer in Egypt. I didn't know. If people want to research the country then they should be able to read my story, and others. I have found that posting anything negative gets deleted. So how is a person supposed to do research?


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## hurghadapat

Pheonix500 said:


> You are the first person to publically say it's hard to find an honest Lawyer in Egypt. I didn't know. If people want to research the country then they should be able to read my story, and others. I have found that posting anything negative gets deleted. So how is a person supposed to do research?


If you read back through the forum i think you will find i am not the first person to mention how difficult it is to find an honest lawyer.Deframatory remarks will always be deleted.


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