# Married guys as Singles option in 189 visa post November?



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

Hi Guys,
If the govt's intention is to discourage marriage guys from taking up spots by their unskilled partners for skilled visa (189), do you think an option will be there in the new version EOI where they ask if married guys can proceed as single application? I mean, basically married guys once they have their pr visa can add their spouses in the spouse visa, right?


----------



## Rizwan.Qamar (Apr 26, 2016)

winterapril said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> If the govt's intention is to discourage marriage guys from taking up spots by their unskilled partners for skilled visa (189), do you think an option will be there in the new version EOI where they ask if married guys can proceed as single application? I mean, basically married guys once they have their pr visa can add their spouses in the spouse visa, right?


In my opinion, there will be an option. Canada has it.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

So that means married guys can be treated at par with singles, of they so want right? Married people with unskilled partner can get 10 points just like singles if they are okay to suffer the downside of having to apply for spouse visa seperately? 

This is what the govt wants right? So if this is the case, then no one stands to gain.. everyone will have their points increased by 10 but the competition remains same or worse than before, and the bright side is all the places allocated for 189 will go to skilled people only. 
So it's a win for govt and status quo /worser for all the applicants.


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

To my knowledge you cannot be in relationship or get married after you enter Australia for a while (I think, it's one of the requirements) so if they found out you lied they will cancel your visa.


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

Sorry I meant before you enter, not after you enter. You cannot be married or in a relationship before you enter if you lie, they will cancel your visa. You can check these details on Immi page under see your visa conditions.


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

Please understand what I'm saying specifically before jumping to reply. I was wondering if the new EOI would have an option where we will be asked to proceed as a single applicant irrespective of our marital status. This would effectively forego the applicants chance to add their spouse on the application but still be treated at par with singles. Who said anything about lying? Read carefully before responding


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

winterapril said:


> Please understand what I'm saying specifically before jumping to reply. I was wondering if the new EOI would have an option where we will be asked to proceed as a single applicant irrespective of our marital status. This would effectively forego the applicants chance to add their spouse on the application but still be treated at par with singles. Who said anything about lying? Read carefully before responding


I did not mean that you are going to lie (just stating general information that if you-and I didn't mean you as a person I meant you as a general audience-provide wrong information the visa might get cancelled). I'm just replying with the information that is available now (don't take everything so personally). Maybe they will change it maybe they won't. With the current restrictions in place, even if you they change EOI, which I think they won't because otherwise why would the put the priority list (1. married with skilled souses and singles 2. married with conversational eng and 3. none of each) the visa application might get rejected either way as the points will not match. Plus they put the visa conditions (the condition that you cannot be married or in relationship before you enter or get the visa granted) for reason.


----------



## Rizwan.Qamar (Apr 26, 2016)

veshi said:


> To my knowledge you cannot be in relationship or get married after you enter Australia for a while (I think, it's one of the requirements) so if they found out you lied they will cancel your visa.


Do you have any link for this or is it just something you think? I don't think this true and restricting someone from getting married seems like a thing a democratic country cannot do.
Canadian system is same, and if you get married during visa process, it is possible to add spouse without points being recalculated. But if you are married and apply as single, it is not possible to add spouse in the middle of process.
Based on all of this, I feel there could be a way for married people to apply as single.
Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

Rizwan.Qamar said:


> Do you have any link for this or is it just something you think? I don't think this true and restricting someone from getting married seems like a thing a democratic country cannot do.
> Canadian system is same, and if you get married during visa process, it is possible to add spouse without points being recalculated. But if you are married and apply as single, it is not possible to add spouse in the middle of process.
> 
> Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


My next reply explains that I made a mistake, I meant to write before not after. You can get married after, but you are not allowed to be married before and not include your spouse in your application. More information here


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

winterapril said:


> Hi Guys,
> If the govt's intention is to discourage marriage guys from taking up spots by their unskilled partners for skilled visa (189), do you think an option will be there in the new version EOI where they ask if married guys can proceed as single application? I mean, basically married guys once they have their pr visa can add their spouses in the spouse visa, right?


I highly doubt such an option would exist - I don't see how that would help DHA achieve their goal of prioritising skilled singles / skilled couples. 



Rizwan.Qamar said:


> Do you have any link for this or is it just something you think? I don't think this true and restricting someone from getting married seems like a thing a democratic country cannot do.
> Canadian system is same, and if you get married during visa process, it is possible to add spouse without points being recalculated. But if you are married and apply as single, it is not possible to add spouse in the middle of process.
> 
> Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


Restricting folks from getting married is something DHA does do where visa conditions are concerned, see Condition 8515:

"8515 - Must not marry or enter into a de facto relationship before entry. You must not marry or enter into a de facto relationship before entering Australia."


----------



## Rizwan.Qamar (Apr 26, 2016)

veshi said:


> My next reply explains that I made a mistake, I meant to write before not after. You can get married after, but you are not allowed to be married before and not include your spouse in your application. More information here


Seems like you are correct.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rizwan.Qamar (Apr 26, 2016)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> I highly doubt such an option would exist - I don't see how that would help DHA achieve their goal of prioritising skilled singles / skilled couples.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't it mean the time period after the grant and before a initial entry?

The second condition deals with during process, I think. But it is for not informing.
"We might cancel your visa if we find out you were engaged, married or in a de facto relationship before we granted you the visa but did not tell us."

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## single4lyf (Aug 14, 2019)

winterapril said:


> Please understand what I'm saying specifically before jumping to reply. I was wondering if the new EOI would have an option where we will be asked to proceed as a single applicant irrespective of our marital status. This would effectively forego the applicants chance to add their spouse on the application but still be treated at par with singles. Who said anything about lying? Read carefully before responding


There's already an option whether you plan to have dependents in your future application. In which case even if you declare your marital status, it won't count in as a secondary applicant meaning you will have the same privilege as the singles.


----------



## haha90 (Jun 30, 2018)

First, there will be no such option as married guy want to go as a single application. Single here is only for marital status.

There will be only 4 options: 1. Single ; 2. Married with skilled spouse; 3. Married with spouse with Eng; 4. Married with no points for spouse

You need to wait until Nov to see the exact form is but I believe DHA is smart enough to prevent anyone to trick or tweak the rule.

My thinking is that
1. If you are invited as a single, you cannot add spouse/partner during processing time now or only can add skilled spouse (so point is the same)

2. You can add spouse after you get grant, so technically as current partner visa.


----------



## haha90 (Jun 30, 2018)

single4lyf said:


> There's already an option whether you plan to have dependents in your future application. In which case even if you declare your marital status, it won't count in as a secondary applicant meaning you will have the same privilege as the singles.


Wait until Nov to see. I dont think so. If that's the case, all the married guys will just go as single application, then no difference.

The current option is there because currently, marital status doesn't affect much your point but with Nov change, the option might be different.


----------



## single4lyf (Aug 14, 2019)

haha90 said:


> Wait until Nov to see. I dont think so. If that's the case, all the married guys will just go as single application, then no difference.
> 
> The current option is there because currently, marital status doesn't affect much your point but with Nov change, the option might be different.


You're right. I was lying. If your married in the first place, chances are very high that you'll end up being together in Australia and you either 1)DECLARE - 10 point skilled spouse 2)DECLARE - NON SKILLED 3)DON'T DECLARE - GET REJECTED


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

Is the below likely:?

1. SINGLE - 10 POINTS
2. MARRIED TO UNSKILLED - 0 POINTS
3. MARRIED TO UNSKILLED BUT COMPETENT ENGLISH- 5 POINTS
4. MARRIED TO SKILLED- 10 POINTS
5. MARRIED TO SKILLED/UNSKILLED BUT GOING AS SINGLE APPLICANT (CANNOT ADD A PARTNER TO THIS VISA SPECIFICALLY AT ANY STAGE) - 10 POINTS

I am talking about option 5. That is a good option for govt. The govt is:

1. Not losing a place in 189 vacancy.
2. This guy would opt for spouse visa which is again $ 8k.
3. Effectively discouraged applicant to add an unskilled partner in his visa.

So i guess option 5 would be there.


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

winterapril said:


> Is the below likely:?
> 
> 1. SINGLE - 10 POINTS
> 2. MARRIED TO UNSKILLED - 0 POINTS
> ...



If they still keep visa condition 8515 for PR visas there would not be an option 5 there as if one applies for a partner visa while their partner's PR visa has condition 8515 and provides details that one was in fact married or in a relationship before getting the visa granted the PR is going to be cancelled.


----------



## haha90 (Jun 30, 2018)

winterapril said:


> Is the below likely:?
> 
> 1. SINGLE - 10 POINTS
> 2. MARRIED TO UNSKILLED - 0 POINTS
> ...


Hahaha if only the gov thought like you. My thinking is NO but I might be wrong. Let's see


----------



## outrageous_view (Oct 22, 2018)

I highly doubt there will be a 5. They are specifically discouraging non-skilled workers as well as reducing congestion.'

That would mean every married person who fits under option 2 and 3 will just apply for 5, might as well not change the points system.


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

haha90 said:


> Hahaha if only the gov thought like you. My thinking is NO but I might be wrong. Let's see


There is a visa condition 8515 on skilled PR visas like 189 or 190 that literally says you are not allowed to be married or in de facto partnership before your visa gets granted or else they will cancel it. So for example, if you are married but pretend to be single and then ask your spouse to apply for 820 and they notice your marriage date is before the entry/grant date they will cancel the PR visa.


----------



## Pathpk (Dec 3, 2017)

veshi said:


> There is a visa condition 8515 on skilled PR visas like 189 or 190 that literally says you are not allowed to be married or in de facto partnership before your visa gets granted or else they will cancel it. So for example, if you are married but pretend to be single and then ask your spouse to apply for 820 and they notice your marriage date is before the entry/grant date they will cancel the PR visa.


Plus, while applying for partner's visa you have to satisfy the 12 months relationship condition. Which means a single would not be able to apply for partner's visa until after at least 12 months from the grant of PR.


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

Rizwan.Qamar said:


> Doesn't it mean the time period after the grant and before a initial entry?
> 
> The second condition deals with during process, I think. But it is for not informing.
> "We might cancel your visa if we find out you were engaged, married or in a de facto relationship before we granted you the visa but did not tell us."
> ...


Yup that's the time period I understand it to mean - just illustrating that DHA has a precedent here in tying the visa process to relationship status. 

The second bit is just a more specific example by DHA I think about Section 101(b) and Section 109 of the Migration Act - i.e. no incorrect answers to be provided -> if incorrect answers provided, potential for visa cancellation. 

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 101 Visa applications to be correct

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 109 Cancellation of visa if information incorrect

Of course there are a few circumstances of DHA letting applicants know that even if they are in breach of certain requirements, they are okay, e.g. IED waiver letters or exceptions to Condition 8550. In that vein, I doubt DHA will do something similar here in allowing people who do not have a spouse that is unskilled, to apply as if they were single and in doing so get the additional points a single applicant does.


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

outrageous_view said:


> I highly doubt there will be a 5. They are specifically discouraging non-skilled workers as well as reducing congestion.'
> 
> That would mean every married person who fits under option 2 and 3 will just apply for 5, might as well not change the points system.


which is what the govt wants right? Even married ones would apply as single, thereby (1) not taking up a 189 spot for their partner (exactly like singles). (2) later apply a spouse visa 
"(which the singles would do as well)". 

In effect, for option 5- the govt makes the married people behave as single- also removing the troublesome job of verification of marital status of the applicants- the applicants can be upfront about their marital status.


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

Pathpk said:


> Plus, while applying for partner's visa you have to satisfy the 12 months relationship condition. Which means a single would not be able to apply for partner's visa until after at least 12 months from the grant of PR.


Not necessarily, the 12 month requirement is only for applicants who are not married and applying as a de facto couple. 

Even then, if they have registered their relationship in a state/territory of Australia that allows them to do so, the 12 month requirement is waived. 

Of course they still have to show a genuine and continuing relationship and meet all the other evidence thresholds.


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

haha90 said:


> First, there will be no such option as married guy want to go as a single application. Single here is only for marital status.
> 
> There will be only 4 options: 1. Single ; 2. Married with skilled spouse; 3. Married with spouse with Eng; 4. Married with no points for spouse
> 
> ...


How they address what you outlined here will be interesting to see:
"if you are invited as a single, you cannot add spouse/partner during processing time now or only can add skilled spouse (so point is the same)"

If nothing is done, you could potentially see people postponing their marriage to an unskilled partner till visa processing, or folks in a de facto relationship misrepresenting a primary applicant as single and then just adding them during processing.


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> Not necessarily, the 12 month requirement is only for applicants who are not married and applying as a de facto couple.
> 
> Even then, if they have registered their relationship in a state/territory of Australia that allows them to do so, the 12 month requirement is waived.
> 
> Of course they still have to show a genuine and continuing relationship and meet all the other evidence thresholds.


That's correct but it will be hard to prove that relationship is genuine and continuing even if the relationship is registered when one of the partners is abroad and they have to pretend they weren't together before.


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

veshi said:


> That's correct but it will be hard to prove that relationship is genuine and continuing even if the relationship is registered when one of the partners is abroad and they have to pretend they weren't together before.


Spot on.

In fact, there is evidence that it will be given little to no weight if the circumstances are dodgy:

_"In a recent case from the Department of Immigration, the decision-maker said (and I quote): “I give little weight to a registration of relationship certificate given how easy it is to obtain”. In this case, one party was not in the country when the relationship was registered. However, they registered their relationship nonetheless." _

Source: https://www.freedommigration.com/wh...married-have-on-our-partner-visa-application/


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

winterapril said:


> which is what the govt wants right? Even married ones would apply as single, thereby (1) not taking up a 189 spot for their partner (exactly like singles). (2) later apply a spouse visa
> "(which the singles would do as well)".
> 
> In effect, for option 5- the govt makes the married people behave as single- also removing the troublesome job of verification of marital status of the applicants- the applicants can be upfront about their marital status.


They would have to cancel condition 8515 on PR visas. I don't think they would do it tho.


----------



## etadaking (Jun 18, 2019)

Just think as a common sense. This time the govt actually consider your marital status, so I don't think option 5 would be valid and available. Otherwise, it would be easy for them to not change the Point System, and just say you have to apply as as single, and remove 5 points from Skilled spouse. It would be much easier for them that way, wouldn't it?
So, I'm 100% sure that there would not be option 5.


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

Guys, many here have got the wrong end of it. People here seem to take the thread in a different direction 

This thread is not about DECEIVING/CHEATING-

This thread is about an option 5 (described earlier somewhere) which I think sits well with the govt's line of thinking (at least the publicly stated ones).

For option 5: (Restating yet again?)
1. No extra places for partners
2. Will force married guys to apply for spouse visa later- like singles do

Correct me if i am wrong


----------



## veshi (Sep 13, 2019)

winterapril said:


> Guys, many here have got the wrong end of it. People here seem to take the thread in a different direction
> 
> This thread is not about DECEIVING/CHEATING-
> 
> ...


I don't think there will be one.


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

veshi said:


> I don't think there will be one.


I think there will be. (in my line of thought)
Hopefully one can find out soon


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

winterapril said:


> Guys, many here have got the wrong end of it. People here seem to take the thread in a different direction
> 
> This thread is not about DECEIVING/CHEATING-
> 
> ...


Doubt it will happen mate. 

My observation from reading decision records / AAT rulings is that there is an assumption that a family unit will eventually want to be geographically together.

So if I was a policy maker trying to prioritise: 
1 Skilled migrants with no spouse 
2 Skilled migrants with a skilled spouse + competent English
3 Skilled migrants with a spouse with competent English
4 Skilled migrants with a spouse in any other case

How would (4) representing themselves as (1) - help me achieve my objective? 
Especially given the reasonable assumption (4) will begin the relevant family visa process as soon as they are able to once they have PR - or that (4) will at least on average likely start that family visa process faster than (1) might.


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> How they address what you outlined here will be interesting to see:
> "if you are invited as a single, you cannot add spouse/partner during processing time now or only can add skilled spouse (so point is the same)"
> 
> If nothing is done, you could potentially see people postponing their marriage to an unskilled partner till visa processing, or folks in a de facto relationship misrepresenting a primary applicant as single and then just adding them during processing.


About the last part, there is a potential pitfall like you said. Those who are currently in defacto can pass of as single, and later after grant, can marry and apply for a spouse, right?

So basically all checks by the govt in terms of the first 4 options are pointless- 
which can yet be a reason for an option 5?


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

winterapril said:


> About the last part, there is a potential pitfall like you said. Those who are currently in defacto can pass of as single, and later after grant, can marry and apply for a spouse, right?
> 
> So basically all checks by the govt in terms of the first 4 options are pointless-
> which can yet be a reason for an option 5?


Except in that instance applicants will have provided incorrect info to DHA (if they manage to slip through DHA checks) - and when they have the technology to randomly audit in 1-2-5-10-15 years applications from 2019-20 - you might have your visa / citizenship cancelled. 

There are lots of potential ways in which visa applicants can lie / withhold info / provide bogus documentation to DHA - and DHA has consistently made the consequences of doing so more dire as opposed to not executing their objectives.

Mate I understand where you are coming from, you are hoping for a system change that will assist you, I sincerely hope you manage to get the visa you want for you and your family - but I would not plan for a 189 visa based on a notion of your option 5 becoming a reality. 

Is there another way you can increase your points? E.g. NAATI CCL? (people travel onshore to do the test) Your English language competency? Your spouses English language competency?


----------



## haha90 (Jun 30, 2018)

winterapril said:


> About the last part, there is a potential pitfall like you said. Those who are currently in defacto can pass of as single, and later after grant, can marry and apply for a spouse, right?
> 
> So basically all checks by the govt in terms of the first 4 options are pointless-
> which can yet be a reason for an option 5?


You can have all day to protect the positive thinking that you have 

And I still say that option 5 is pointless and we will see.:cool2:


----------



## haha90 (Jun 30, 2018)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> Except in that instance applicants will have provided incorrect info to DHA (if they manage to slip through DHA checks) - and when they have the technology to randomly audit in 1-2-5-10-15 years applications from 2019-20 - you might have your visa / citizenship cancelled.
> 
> There are lots of potential ways in which visa applicants can lie / withhold info / provide bogus documentation to DHA - and DHA has consistently made the consequences of doing so more dire as opposed to not executing their objectives.
> 
> ...


Or divorce to be single


----------



## Piyali (Dec 16, 2017)

haha90 said:


> Or divorce to be single


Well. This will prove bane AU immigration as lots of people try to claim points by fraudulent methods and which lead to lots of rejections and immigration bans. While genuine people will struggle to get an invite due to such practices. Get ready for big mess guys.:closed_2:


----------



## Zizu8808 (Aug 23, 2019)

Considering the current timelines it is taking from invite to grant (7-9 months), what would happen if a single gets invited but gets married before grant.

a)How would 8515 apply in that case?
b)would the single be able to update the application using change of circumstances form? What would be it's implications?


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Zizu8808 said:


> Considering the current timelines it is taking from invite to grant (7-9 months), what would happen if a single gets invited but gets married before grant.
> 
> a)How would 8515 apply in that case?
> b)would the single be able to update the application using change of circumstances form? What would be it's implications?


The department is opening a Pandora’s box

There will be so many complications, as unscrupulous applicants will try to tort the system and even genuine applicants will suffer 

Cheers


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> Doubt it will happen mate.
> 
> My observation from reading decision records / AAT rulings is that there is an assumption that a family unit will eventually want to be geographically together.
> 
> ...


(4) will not help you more than (1) in achieving your objective- granted. (4) will be exactly equal to (1) in furthering your stated agenda of having only ONE skilled applicant PER one visa invitation.
(4) and (1) will eventually initiate a spouse visa, so no difference there as well. (Though the average time in initiation has merits, it's a bit trivial compared to the whole scheme).
Also, (1) alone has the potential of so much fraud, (4) would alleviate/obviate the need to hide the marital status of some fraud people- saving department some costs and headache there.

As someone said, the department is looking at opening a Pandora's box of trouble for the country. So hopefully they would consider all these angle.


----------



## EAU2452 (Jun 2, 2016)

After reading all this thread, I do not see that option 5 can be possible anyway. 

If option 5 exists all married people will go for it and save the effort and headache of English tests attempts and skill assessment process for the spouse. Does not make any sense in my opinion.


----------



## winterapril (Jan 15, 2019)

If I am in love with a girl for say:
- the past 6 months, not yet de facto
- past 8 months, but would become de facto during visa processing,
- for more than 1 year,, but not formalized or anything, just in deep love, but haven't decided about future course of relation etc etc

So for all these scenarios, do i need to declare my love life to the Dept?

So how does all these tie up? The Dept will be chasing and scouring each individuals life for a hidden lover? (Earlier the onus was on the individual to prove de facto to have his/her partner included in the app. Now it's upto the dept to check for potential de facto for EVERY single applicant?😂😂 With the already stretched resources??)

Or for arranged marriage, how it works in my place (India) is:
Normally people get engaged by their parents. There is no legal documentation involved. Just a bunch of close family members. And the marriage date would be typically 0 months to 2 year after (usually when a period of study or course is over). So with this rule, one can be engaged (that could be really informal- just gather up bride and grooms family and say they are committed for life) and live as wife and hus and still apply as single. (Again akin to de facto) . So with this, the burden is on Dept to scour for such occurrences for EVERY individual...

Way too complicated.:clock:


----------



## EAU2452 (Jun 2, 2016)

Don't forget when a PR holder needs to apply for partner visa, they must satisfy the condition of being in a stable relationship for 12 months. and in this case the 12 months should start being counted after entering Australia.

Condition 8515:
"You must not marry or enter into a de facto relationship before entering Australia.

We might cancel your visa if we find out you were engaged, married or in a de facto relationship before we granted you the visa but did not tell us"

So if a person in ready to take such risk by not declaring the de facto relationship just because they are not legally married, it is up to them.


----------



## Rahul_AUS (Jul 27, 2017)

Zizu8808 said:


> Considering the current timelines it is taking from invite to grant (7-9 months), what would happen if a single gets invited but gets married before grant.
> 
> a)How would 8515 apply in that case?
> b)would the single be able to update the application using change of circumstances form? What would be it's implications?




If we cannot add partner using change of circumstances during the processing, it will open another problem for applicants who already have skilled partner but not yet married. 

For example: 

Applicant already received the invitation as Single and lodge the VISA.

He got married to a skilled partner during the visa processing time.

He wants to add his partner to the visa application. 

So logically System should allow to add skilled partner to his VISA application during the VISA processing period. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## haha90 (Jun 30, 2018)

Remember
1. You dont have to get married to become partners
2. Being qualified as a skilled partner is a lengthy process and at normal case, it is finished before you fill your EOI.

So I dont see it is a major issue for this regulation. If an applicant decides declare himself as a single, he has to take his responsibility so apply his partner visa later.


----------



## Zizu8808 (Aug 23, 2019)

Rahul_AUS said:


> If we cannot add partner using change of circumstances during the processing, it will open another problem for applicants who already have skilled partner but not yet married.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


Yeah..so ideally there should be an option to change the application after lodgement and before grant, it could be different from the current process as spouse/partner points are going to play a crucial going forward.

Also, it is clearly mentioned the department should always be informed about changes in your application, as the application should always reflect the correct information. If application is lodged,CO should be kept informed.

@Rahul_AUS you have mentioned one option, but there could potentially be 2 more (same as the married professional's while EOI Application).

As @NB has mentioned,we are in for a bit of surprise post Nov.


----------



## Rahul_AUS (Jul 27, 2017)

Zizu8808 said:


> Yeah..so ideally there should be an option to change the application after lodgement and before grant, it could be different from the current process as spouse/partner points are going to play a crucial going forward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agree with you. Post November, Department may introduce a new process for adding skilled partners to VISA application during the processing period. 

And they may introduce a new policy to restrict Single people from Marrying an unskilled Partner and include in their VISA application during the VISA processing. Otherwise Systen will create many loopholes. The whole situation looks blur now. Hopefully it will be more clear when department releases the details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rickle (Dec 12, 2018)

I think it's simple for DHA, they just need to apply condition 8515 to any applicants who declared as single, so you if you lied about it then visa will be cancelled, also you wont be able to apply for your partner visa.

If you are invited as single and you want to take the advantage of the loophole, so you decide to marry your partner during visa processing and add them as dependant before your visa is granted, i would say it's subjective and depends on case officer, if your partner is unskilled, its more likely that they will just reject your partner as they took the places from skilled applicants, so that you have to go through partner visa later if you wish to because it's from other visa category and have its own quota.


----------



## dheana90 (Jul 5, 2018)

winterapril said:


> Hi Guys,
> If the govt's intention is to discourage marriage guys from taking up spots by their unskilled partners for skilled visa (189), do you think an option will be there in the new version EOI where they ask if married guys can proceed as single application? I mean, basically married guys once they have their pr visa can add their spouses in the spouse visa, right?





haha90 said:


> single4lyf said:
> 
> 
> > There's already an option whether you plan to have dependents in your future application. In which case even if you declare your marital status, it won't count in as a secondary applicant meaning you will have the same privilege as the singles.
> ...


Strongly Agree. 

I think the new November point test should be easy to understand. 


I think that once we choose or ticked "married" box in EOI profile, our point will automatically calculated according to our marital status. If you are married, even if your spouse will be unnaccompanying (not included in the application) you won't be awarded additional points or you won't get points as single applicant because you are MARRIED!. Just because the spouse won't be included in the application, it doesn't make the applicant as single. SINGLE here means UNMARRIED. If spouse won't be included in the application, you will be treated and get points for married with unskilled spouse which is 0 additional points. I think this is what DHA wants. For married people, they need to have a skilled spouses to get higher points to compete with unmarried applicants.


----------



## dheana90 (Jul 5, 2018)

Rickle said:


> I think it's simple for DHA, they just need to apply condition 8515 to any applicants who declared as single, so you if you lied about it then visa will be cancelled, also you wont be able to apply for your partner visa.
> 
> If you are invited as single and you want to take the advantage of the loophole, so you decide to marry your partner during visa processing and add them as dependant before your visa is granted, i would say it's subjective and depends on case officer, if your partner is unskilled, its more likely that they will just reject your partner as they took the places from skilled applicants, so that you have to go through partner visa later if you wish to because it's from other visa category and have its own quota.


I agree. 

I think DHA should make a rule about single applicant getting married while application is on processing. For example, if the applicant has 80 points and the cut off score was 75 points so S/he got ITA and submitted as single and later they get married during processing time, the rules should be that S/he will be treated as married applicant now and their points will be recalculate by the visa officer to determine their eligibility points again. In this case, their points will obviously decrease by 10 points which make their point 70 now and they won't meet cut off points of 75. and their application will be rejected as a result. So, this person can't take advantage of the loophole if this rule is in place. Unless, their partner is skilled then their points will definitely stays at 80 points so their applications won't rejected.


----------



## dheana90 (Jul 5, 2018)

haha90 said:


> single4lyf said:
> 
> 
> > There's already an option whether you plan to have dependents in your future application. In which case even if you declare your marital status, it won't count in as a secondary applicant meaning you will have the same privilege as the singles.
> ...


Strongly Agree. 

I think the new November point test should be easy to understand. 


I think that once we choose or ticked "married" box in EOI profile, our point will automatically calculated according to our marital status. If you are married, even if your spouse will be unnaccompanying (not included in the application) you won't be awarded additional points or you won't get points as single applicant because you are MARRIED!. Just because the spouse won't be included in the application, it doesn't make the applicant as single. SINGLE here means UNMARRIED. If spouse won't be included in the application, you will be treated and get points for married with unskilled spouse which is 0 additional points. I think this is what DHA wants. For married people, they need to have a skilled spouses to get higher points to compete with unmarried applicants.


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

dheana90 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think DHA should make a rule about single applicant getting married while application is on processing. For example, if the applicant has 80 points and the cut off score was 75 points so S/he got ITA and submitted as single and later they get married during processing time, the rules should be that S/he will be treated as married applicant now and their points will be recalculate by the visa officer to determine their eligibility points again. In this case, their points will obviously decrease by 10 points which make their point 70 now and they won't meet cut off points of 75. and their application will be rejected as a result. So, this person can't take advantage of the loophole if this rule is in place. Unless, their partner is skilled then their points will definitely stays at 80 points so their applications won't rejected.


They have to put a condition in the invite that you must not marry till the visa is granted
Condition 8515 is already given in some Australia visas

They cannot reject the application as far as I can see 

Cheers


----------



## dheana90 (Jul 5, 2018)

NB said:


> They have to put a condition in the invite that you must not marry till the visa is granted
> Condition 8515 is already given in some Australia visas
> 
> They cannot reject the application as far as I can see
> ...


That's why I said DHA have to make new rules for this Nov point system for single applicants who want to get married while their application is on processing,dear..Which allow them to get married after application submission but before the visa grants BUT they still have to meet the point eligibility for the ITA they got. If after recalculation their points goes below the cut off score, their application becomes ineligible and therefore should be rejected. 

Don't you think that is a fair decision too if there will be no condition 8515 place?
😁😁


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

dheana90 said:


> That's why I said DHA have to make new rules for this Nov point system for single applicants who want to get married while their application is on processing,dear..Which allow them to get married after application submission but before the visa grants BUT they still have to meet the point eligibility for the ITA they got. If after recalculation their points goes below the cut off score, their application becomes ineligible and therefore should be rejected.
> 
> Don't you think that is a fair decision too if there will be no condition 8515 place?
> 😁😁


You have to prove points only till the date of invite
For example if you cross 33 before the grant, should your application be rejected because you lost 5 points from age
It cannot work like that
They will probably put safeguards like you cannot add a spouse to your application if you claim to be single before you land in Australia

Cheers


----------



## adamkaz (Jun 17, 2019)

So guys now any update on the thread after the 16th of November, is this option available ? 

5. MARRIED TO SKILLED/UNSKILLED BUT GOING AS SINGLE APPLICANT (CANNOT ADD A PARTNER TO THIS VISA SPECIFICALLY AT ANY STAGE) - 10 POINTS


----------



## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

adamkaz said:


> So guys now any update on the thread after the 16th of November, is this option available ?
> 
> 5. MARRIED TO SKILLED/UNSKILLED BUT GOING AS SINGLE APPLICANT (CANNOT ADD A PARTNER TO THIS VISA SPECIFICALLY AT ANY STAGE) - 10 POINTS


NO, this option was an assumption by members, it was never going to happen lol


----------



## Rickle (Dec 12, 2018)

adamkaz said:


> So guys now any update on the thread after the 16th of November, is this option available ?
> 
> 5. MARRIED TO SKILLED/UNSKILLED BUT GOING AS SINGLE APPLICANT (CANNOT ADD A PARTNER TO THIS VISA SPECIFICALLY AT ANY STAGE) - 10 POINTS


It is extracted from DHA latest Newsletter from Iscah. Hope this will clear any doubts you have:

*Partner Points* 

"To be eligible for partner points, applicants must satisfy skills assessment and/or English language requirements at time of invitation. In assessing whether 

 an applicant is single or has a spouse (as defined in section 5F of the Migration Act 1958) or a de facto partner (as defined in section 5CB of the Migration Act); and 

 the citizenship or permanent residence status of any partner the relevant time of the relationship status is the date of the points test assessment by the decision maker. 

It is important to note that this means that if the applicant’s relationship status or the residence status of their partner changes after the date of invitation or the date of application, the award of partner points may also change. During the processing of any visa application any inconsistent information regarding the marital/de facto relationship status of the applicant will be closely scrutinised. The applicant will be provided the opportunity to comment and if there has been a change in relationship status, evidence should be provided to support this change. *This will ensure applicants who are married or in a de facto relationship are not able to be awarded points on the basis of claiming to be without a spouse or de facto partner.*


----------

