# Certificate of Coverage for self employment. So confusing!



## Nathandelabrum (Apr 30, 2018)

I’m a U.K. citizen and my wife is a US citizen who has been living in the U.K. for almost 14 years. In the last few weeks or so, we received a letter from our bank asking us to confirm my wife’s tax residency status for FACTA/CRS reporting. We had no idea that she should have been filing US tax returns and reporting FBARs, so we’ve obviously being doing our research into filing under the IRS streamlined process for delinquent returns. We’ve been collating all the relevant information/figures and soon, we intend on contacting a CPA to file everything for us.

We thought we had everything figured out and in place, but just tonight I’ve been reading about the certificate of coverage that’s needed for self employed expats to file under FEIE. My wife has been self employed for approximately 18 months, so this is obviously pertinent to us.

How exactly do I go about obtaining a certificate of coverage and is it strictly necessary to include a certificate with the return(s)? I figured the form would be easy to find on gov.uk, but the only form I can find that resembles what we need is CA9107 (certificate of continuing liability for national insurance). I’m not sure if this is the correct form as it implies that it needs filling out when a U.K. taxpayer/NI contributor is going to work abroad - this is not the case, my wife intends on continuing her self employment solely in the U.K.

Some older looking articles say that we have to write to HMRC and request the certificate of coverage, surely it’s not that archaic of a process?! But I can’t find any form to fill out online that provides my wife with a certificate of coverage for continued self employment in the U.K.

This is all getting rather stressful and more confusing by the day so if someone can point us in the correct direction we’d really appreciate it!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Basically what is needed is any sort of document or certificate indicating that you are properly enrolled in the "social security" (i.e. social insurances) regime in your country of residence (and ideally that you are paid up to date). Here in France, people use a statement from URSSAF indicating they are up to date on their payments. Use the CA9107 you mentioned and if they don't like it, they'll be in touch.

I'd be wary about using a CPA or other paid tax advisor for filing your back taxes. Unless your situation is complicated, you'll wind up spending a huge amount of money just to prove to the IRS that you don't owe them anything. The first time or two through the process can be a little hairy - but you have a certain amount of latitude in how you report things (not to mention what you report). US tax law and regulations can be insanely "squishy" and for overseas residents, a good faith attempt is usually more than enough.


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## Nathandelabrum (Apr 30, 2018)

Thanks for the insight, so you’d recommend just filing ourselves? It is a little complicated as my wife moved from employment to self employment in 2020. 

So you say any type of document is needed, could she use her end of year tax statement that shows how much national insurance is due/has been paid? That will be a lot easier to obtain.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Nathandelabrum said:


> So you say any type of document is needed, could she use her end of year tax statement that shows how much national insurance is due/has been paid? That will be a lot easier to obtain.


In a pinch, maybe. But what they are looking for is something that shows that she is registered with them and paying in. And ideally something from the social insurance authority itself - not just the tax people.


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## Nathandelabrum (Apr 30, 2018)

Bevdeforges said:


> In a pinch, maybe. But what they are looking for is something that shows that she is registered with them and paying in. And ideally something from the social insurance authority itself - not just the tax people.


She recently received her bill for July’s self assessment payment on account - this outlines what she paid in the last year and what is now due. She would normally pay this online, but if she takes the bill to our bank and pays it there, they’ll stamp it to show it’s been paid, hence surely proving she’s up to date? We also might be able to dig out the letter she received when she first applied for a national insurance number. Would those documents suffice perhaps?

I really don’t think the CA9107 will work. It wants to know where she’ll be working abroad, name of employer etc. None of that applies and the form won’t let you proceed unless you fill out all sections.

I’m just wary that if we stall the filing process over trying to obtain this document and it takes weeks to arrive that once HMRC informs the IRS about her foreign accounts that they’ll open an investigation before we’ve started the filing process, which for obvious reasons we want to avoid.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Unless you've got millions stashed away in those "foreign accounts" the chances of anyone at the IRS noticing anything and especially doing any sort of "follow up" are somewhere between "slim" and "none." Particularly if your ultimate tax bill from the US turns out to be $0.


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## Nathandelabrum (Apr 30, 2018)

Bevdeforges said:


> Unless you've got millions stashed away in those "foreign accounts" the chances of anyone at the IRS noticing anything and especially doing any sort of "follow up" are somewhere between "slim" and "none." Particularly if your ultimate tax bill from the US turns out to be $0.


Yes quite right. I’d still like to sort it sooner rather than though.

I called DWP and they’ve directed us to (hopefully) the correct form. It’s the CA8421 form which enables HMRC to confirm that you are liable to pay national insurance. A lot of it doesn’t seem to be applicable, but we were advised to explain why my wife is applying for the form in the comments section, so here’s hoping we’ll have this little problem fixed soon!


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