# Before moving to Egypt



## MaidenScotland

I have lived and worked in Cairo for many years now and have worked and lived in other countries other than the U.K. First of all let me say that I like Egypt and Egyptians but I just want to point out the problems we have here.

You will not get an expat package once you are here, to obtain and expat package salary you must source your job in your home country.

Local salary is not enough to live on... fact but you may be offered a job with an enhanced salary... 5000 Le is considered a good local enhanced salary, but believe me it's ok people saying you can live well for that, but there is no way I could live on that and live the life I want to lead and I am not out in 5 star hotels eating everyday, as a foreigner we pay more for everything than locals, and they see no wrong in this.
Earlier today I went into the shop that I usually buy my private phone cards from, now I spend on average 400Le a month on cards from this shop and I saw a purse to protect my phone, I asked the price and was told 15 Le, I refused, later I sent the boy who works for me to buy it........... cost to him 10 LE, this is a daily occurance and why I tend to shop in Carrefour, Metro you may pay a little more but at least you are being charged the proper price, btw at the moment most vegestables in Carrefour are cheaper than street prices. Other than the big shops nothing is priced here and they try and charge what they think you can afford and will accept.
Taxis are more expensive for us than locals, and as a woman there is no way I would advise another one to travel on local transport, if the smell of B.O doesnt kill you the harrasement will. Yellow taxis and the new white ones are good because they are metered but sadly they too are now out to fleece you if you don't know the way to your destination they will try and take you miles out of your journey to bump the price up.

Fully furished apartments are basic and not western standards but they will try and charge over the odds and you have to really look round for a decent one.

Quick or fast are words that do not exist here and I find it frustrating at the lack of pace in everything and more so the work enviroment

You are expected to tip everyone and anyone, even the man who comes to repair your phone expects a tip.

Local schools are horrendous and they beat the children... if you are bringing children here you must have the funds for a private school.

Hygiene........ mmm well you will be horrified at the lack off.

Try and cross the road? Only if you have got good health/life insurance.

Gigolos..... don't get me started, I am amazed at the silly women who up sticks and come here because some young man has declared he loves her and wants to be with her for ever. I have friends that are married to Egyptians and have been for 30 plus years but these friends husbands are highly educted profsesional men, not waiter, tour guides etc. Your average waiter, tour guide is after your money and sex and a visa to the west nothing more and chances are he has several of you on the go and if you do marry him he usually then wants to change the way you dress, stop you going out and change your religion, never seems to occur to these woman that this man supposedly fell in love with you the way you were .
This also goes for gay men, a gay friend of mine has paid to bury his boyfriends mother 3times.

If you are coming out to live, experience the culture etc then fine but don't come thinking that it cost next to nothing to live here.


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## koko661

MaidenScotland said:


> I have lived and worked in Cairo for many years now and have worked and lived in other countries other than the U.K. First of all let me say that I like Egypt and Egyptians but I just want to point out the problems we have here.
> 
> You will not get an expat package once you are here, to obtain and expat package salary you must source your job in your home country.
> 
> Local salary is not enough to live on... fact but you may be offered a job with an enhanced salary... 5000 Le is considered a good local enhanced salary, but believe me it's ok people saying you can live well for that, but there is no way I could live on that and live the life I want to lead and I am not out in 5 star hotels eating everyday, as a foreigner we pay more for everything than locals, and they see no wrong in this.
> Earlier today I went into the shop that I usually buy my private phone cards from, now I spend on average 400Le a month on cards from this shop and I saw a purse to protect my phone, I asked the price and was told 15 Le, I refused, later I sent the boy who works for me to buy it........... cost to him 10 LE, this is a daily occurance and why I tend to shop in Carrefour, Metro you may pay a little more but at least you are being charged the proper price, btw at the moment most vegestables in Carrefour are cheaper than street prices. Other than the big shops nothing is priced here and they try and charge what they think you can afford and will accept.
> Taxis are more expensive for us than locals, and as a woman there is no way I would advise another one to travel on local transport, if the smell of B.O doesnt kill you the harrasement will. Yellow taxis and the new white ones are good because they are metered but sadly they too are now out to fleece you if you don't know the way to your destination they will try and take you miles out of your journey to bump the price up.
> 
> Fully furished apartments are basic and not western standards but they will try and charge over the odds and you have to really look round for a decent one.
> 
> Quick or fast are words that do not exist here and I find it frustrating at the lack of pace in everything and more so the work enviroment
> 
> You are expected to tip everyone and anyone, even the man who comes to repair your phone expects a tip.
> 
> Local schools are horrendous and they beat the children... if you are bringing children here you must have the funds for a private school.
> 
> Hygiene........ mmm well you will be horrified at the lack off.
> 
> Try and cross the road? Only if you have got good health/life insurance.
> 
> Gigolos..... don't get me started, I am amazed at the silly women who up sticks and come here because some young man has declared he loves her and wants to be with her for ever. I have friends that are married to Egyptians and have been for 30 plus years but these friends husbands are highly educted profsesional men, not waiter, tour guides etc. Your average waiter, tour guide is after your money and sex and a visa to the west nothing more and chances are he has several of you on the go and if you do marry him he usually then wants to change the way you dress, stop you going out and change your religion, never seems to occur to these woman that this man supposedly fell in love with you the way you were .
> This also goes for gay men, a gay friend of mine has paid to bury his boyfriends mother 3times.
> 
> If you are coming out to live, experience the culture etc then fine but don't come thinking that it cost next to nothing to live here.


HI,There
Iappreciate your tips .In my opinion every where has good and bad people .So you have to select the people you want to deal with .Also you have to choose the place you are going to live in .Acording to my experience Egypt is the finest country to visit especially Cairo and I can prove that .So any time you or your friends will be in Egypt be in touch with me and you will find out the different.Please send me PM for more discusion if you like and Iam sure one day you will change your mind about Egypt and Egyptians .Ihope so .
Good Luck


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## MaidenScotland

Hi, Thanks but if you re read my posting it does tell you that I live here and have done for many years so I am giving my views on my experiences here as an expat which is what this forum is about... expats in egypt.


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## MaidenScotland

whoops that posting went before I finshed.

I have also stated that I like Egypt and Egyptians, so why would you want me to change my opinion?

Would I be correct in assuming your male?


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## koko661

MaidenScotland said:


> whoops that posting went before I finshed.
> 
> I have also stated that I like Egypt and Egyptians, so why would you want me to change my opinion?
> 
> Would I be correct in assuming your male?


Hi,There
Iknow you started you like Egypt and Egyptions,but you just mention the disadvantages you met here in Egypt . All I want from you to tell the westerners about the advantages and the disadvantages .I have travelled to Europe countries and Arab countries.Imet there good and bad people.when any body ask 
me about what Ihave faced there ,my answers should be fair by telling the advantages and the disadvantages .That is what Imean .
Any way you are welcom in your second country, Egypt and God bless you .
Good luck.


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## MaidenScotland

I am not here to tell the advantages, I am pointing out that some people think that coming here will be Utopia and it is nothing like that. This forum is full of people asking how much does it cost to live, how easy is it to get a job, what sort of salary etc, living here is so much more different from being on holiday and that is what I am pointing out. Why anyone would want to live abroad and have a lower standard of living from their country of origin is beyond me and if you are on a local salary you will struggle.
The first time I arrived in Cairo it was raining and cold and I was shocked, didn't think it rained here but as you know the winters here are miserable cold and wet, its not all sun and warmth and that is what I am pointing out


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## koko661

MaidenScotland said:


> I am not here to tell the advantages, I am pointing out that some people think that coming here will be Utopia and it is nothing like that. This forum is full of people asking how much does it cost to live, how easy is it to get a job, what sort of salary etc, living here is so much more different from being on holiday and that is what I am pointing out. Why anyone would want to live abroad and have a lower standard of living from their country of origin is beyond me and if you are on a local salary you will struggle.
> The first time I arrived in Cairo it was raining and cold and I was shocked, didn't think it rained here but as you know the winters here are miserable cold and wet, its not all sun and warmth and that is what I am pointing out


Hi,There
Thanks for your message.I acually agree with you.Really living in Egypt as tourist is different from origin pepole.May Igive my self the right to ask you personal questions such as ,where have you gone after Egypt ?How long have you been in Egypt ?


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## masr8

I have lived here for three years now and I TOTALLY AGREE with what you said. I love Egypt but am sick of everyone having a claim on my wages. An average Egyptian could live very well on 5000LE but we cant - we get charged up to 10times on everything so basically living the same as the UK in some circumstances. Egyptian friends cant understand why we shop at metro, spinneys etc as its so expensive but its the only place with the price label on it. I ended up hiring a car as was getting charged more and more each time with taxi companies charging 'friends rates' eg. double and also relaying your conversation to all and sundry when its nothing to do with them. Other than that Egypt is great but not a cheap place to live if you are not Egyptian.


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## MaidenScotland

You can ask but I won't tell you as it really is none of your business, I am wary of Egyptian men asking me personal questions as there is always a reason for it and the reason is usually that they want to see what I can help them with or what I can give them. Yes maybe I am generalising but believe me this is the Egyptian that foreigners see.


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## MaidenScotland

Masr8......Yes everyone wants a slice of my salary , thing is they forget that I have to work very hard to do my job and I have also left my home to come here and I don't get to see my family every day after work. I still have outgoings in the UK that have to be paid for, whilst I am comfortable I am not rich. I have a huge list of the people I have given money to for various reasons, but the first day back after my holiday a man that I have helped many many times came with his wife to tell me that she is having her C section the next day, in other words they wanted me to pay.... I have had enough and told him if you cant afford babies dont make them and dont take advantage of my good nature.
I help out with an orphange here and that will remain, but from now on what I earn I keep for myself... sadly I learned the hard way.


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## masr8

MaidenScotland said:


> Masr8......Yes everyone wants a slice of my salary , thing is they forget that I have to work very hard to do my job and I have also left my home to come here and I don't get to see my family every day after work. I still have outgoings in the UK that have to be paid for, whilst I am comfortable I am not rich. I have a huge list of the people I have given money to for various reasons, but the first day back after my holiday a man that I have helped many many times came with his wife to tell me that she is having her C section the next day, in other words they wanted me to pay.... I have had enough and told him if you cant afford babies dont make them and dont take advantage of my good nature.
> I help out with an orphange here and that will remain, but from now on what I earn I keep for myself... sadly I learned the hard way.


I totally agree, though it makes me sound really heartless to new people settled in Cairo. We dont live the same life here and our wages sound really comfortable to others. There is always someone who has a roundabout story that someone need money. People forget that we have commitments in our home country, friends and family that we miss and we have to work really hard to build a reliable network of friends here in a short time to settle in. Sometimes its assumed we have no culture of our own or family network and that as a woman living here you are not respectable! I agree if you cant afford kids dont have them or at least dont make others feel guilty and have contribute. Its a really hard situation and I find that I have changed alot from the idealistic view I held at home. I still love living here but everyone has the impression at home and away that we are living a really plush life but its not true.


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## nym_82

Hi MaidenScotland - This is completely off topic but I have no idea how to send personal messages through this site. I just wanted top find out how you got into volunteering at the orphanage? I would be really interested in doing something similar when I move to Cairo in 5 weeks...


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## MaidenScotland

I don't do actual work at the orphanage but I help raise money, collect clothing and household goods for the girls and at christmas we give them a party.
When you get here give me a buzz and I will let you have my telephone number


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## HeartDream

Thank you so much for your time and effort MaidenScotland, it's very much appreciated. I understand the viewpoint very well. I'm Vietnamese and lived there my first 11 years. I can tell you that this is unfortunately not just the mindset of Egyptians, more perhaps people in poverty, but that should never be taken as an excuse either. 

I guess a lot of women are in love and do have their heads on, but are not creative enough. One thing, if you are insecure of your man, give him tests to see if he passes. 

I am a good actress  I told my boyfriend that I have money for the flight and afterwards when I come I will have no money at all whatsoever so everything would be on him. Then I would bring the subject up over and over saying that I am worried and nervous etc. to see how he reacts . Don't be afraid to test him. Ask him questions, see how he responds. If it alerts you, keep going onto it to find out if you can really live with his answer. Always trust your instincts. 

I don't understand how women can also think they can just bring on their different background and not think of the Egyptian culture. Not to forget, Islam! Or Coptic Christian. I'm sorry but in the culture in Egypt, it seems it is very conservative, and though it happens, it is likely exceptional, that a woman be older than her man(this is in a lot of places too though, no?). I've been researching for ages and am still researching. What I am reading is that a lot of relationships fall apart because of differences in mindsets. Well educate yourself first! And make sure he does the same. Don't change yourself for someone! If anything your partner would start believing he/she could mold you into any shape. It happens everywhere but logically, more so when you change so drastically for someone of a different culture, perhaps religion.

Also, times and times over and again, I've heard that, when you marry an Egyptian man, you marry his family. Are you ready for that? And why, why live so close to his family as so they can interfere in everything you do? Egyptian women are well aware of this too from what I've read! The Mother in Law is INFAMOUS, worldwide, but it seems more so in Egypt as she is the one who brings up the children.

When you are a foreigner, you will have to expect to be seen differently in a foreign country. It applies just about everywhere, if not everywhere. Are you ready to be seen as a money p... the word escapes me, but it's one of those creative games where you get a paper form of an animal or so stuffed with candies where kids get blind folded and hit it to try and get candy out of it. Anyway, what else is to be expected? This is a country where a lot of people are in poverty, and many have little to no idea of the life outside of Egypt. A lot of them will assume that it is paradise and that money fall from the air. Get set, ready, BARGAIN

If you think about it, everybody is different yet the same. Just brought up differently. Good and bad people everywhere, copies and originals. There are exceptional people everywhere, and yet again, the sheep mentality and stupidity is universal. 

Always always use common sense, and trust your instincts. Anywhere and everywhere you go. And follow your heart too. The mind is the most important though.

With all of that said, even if you prepare yourself all you can, who says it can't go wrong? I'm about to find out myself.

My boyfriend is a manager at 2 different salons working at a 5 star hotel but he earns the Egyptian wage, very good in that case, 3,000LE + commission. He is willing to support me in every way and it just makes me melt. But I can never depend on someone else completely, so I am going with enough money for at least a few months and an escape plane ticket if anything. I trust my boyfriend for the most part and I love him so much, God is my witness. But it does not hurt to take caution in my opinion. He never has to find out, and if he does, it may hurt him but if he loves, he will understand. I am still telling my boyfriend that I have no money etc. till we live each other for a few days, then I will tell him. I can't bear the tests myself, I want to be honest in everything but our relationship is still a bud. Btw, I'm 18 and he is 26. I'm not putting my life on hold, I have my education online. So another thing, plan for yourself too! Don't put your life on hold because you may regret it, more so if things don't work out. 

As I see it... well... I've been depressed for many years, hating where I am, low self esteem, pessimism, suicidal thoughts, etc.. I don't see myself as having much to lose, but more to gain. 

I felt alive again when I came to Egypt, and happy when I met him. The thought that I can belong, the boost in confidence have helped me strive stronger, given me new energy for what I've always been interested in and dreamed of. I've changed so much for the better, I believe much more now, I taught myself how to cook, I clean and keep the house in order, I dance about, I'm so much better to everyone around me socially and I can feel the respect they have for me, I can express my mind and heart more clearly, I do things more wholeheartedly now, etc. now I actually feel like a true individual. It wasn't love at first sight but I swear to God there must be cupid who shot a thousand arrows through my heart and his at the same time. We didn't talk, we felt it. We have such a connection, such great appreciation for each other. He makes me laugh, he wants me to live, he makes me love.

I hope and I pray, that our love will be forever young and pure, but, but... we will see.


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## HeartDream

Add in the lack of energy, restlessness, and little to zero motivation.


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## MaidenScotland

nym_82 said:


> Hi MaidenScotland - This is completely off topic but I have no idea how to send personal messages through this site. I just wanted top find out how you got into volunteering at the orphanage? I would be really interested in doing something similar when I move to Cairo in 5 weeks...




Hi

I went through the staff at the BCA.. to be honest I haven't been there for nearly a year.
I know the orphanage are always grateful for clothes, spectacle frames. toys. anything in fact that will make life easier as they get no government funding at all.

This is a girls orphanage google Fowler House Cairo.

Maiden


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## marenostrum

HeartDream said:


> Thank you so much for your time and effort MaidenScotland, it's very much appreciated. I understand the viewpoint very well. I'm Vietnamese and lived there my first 11 years. I can tell you that this is unfortunately not just the mindset of Egyptians, more perhaps people in poverty, but that should never be taken as an excuse either.
> 
> I guess a lot of women are in love and do have their heads on, but are not creative enough. One thing, if you are insecure of your man, give him tests to see if he passes.
> 
> I am a good actress  I told my boyfriend that I have money for the flight and afterwards when I come I will have no money at all whatsoever so everything would be on him. Then I would bring the subject up over and over saying that I am worried and nervous etc. to see how he reacts . Don't be afraid to test him. Ask him questions, see how he responds. If it alerts you, keep going onto it to find out if you can really live with his answer. Always trust your instincts.
> 
> I don't understand how women can also think they can just bring on their different background and not think of the Egyptian culture. Not to forget, Islam! Or Coptic Christian. I'm sorry but in the culture in Egypt, it seems it is very conservative, and though it happens, it is likely exceptional, that a woman be older than her man(this is in a lot of places too though, no?). I've been researching for ages and am still researching. What I am reading is that a lot of relationships fall apart because of differences in mindsets. Well educate yourself first! And make sure he does the same. Don't change yourself for someone! If anything your partner would start believing he/she could mold you into any shape. It happens everywhere but logically, more so when you change so drastically for someone of a different culture, perhaps religion.
> 
> Also, times and times over and again, I've heard that, when you marry an Egyptian man, you marry his family. Are you ready for that? And why, why live so close to his family as so they can interfere in everything you do? Egyptian women are well aware of this too from what I've read! The Mother in Law is INFAMOUS, worldwide, but it seems more so in Egypt as she is the one who brings up the children.
> 
> When you are a foreigner, you will have to expect to be seen differently in a foreign country. It applies just about everywhere, if not everywhere. Are you ready to be seen as a money p... the word escapes me, but it's one of those creative games where you get a paper form of an animal or so stuffed with candies where kids get blind folded and hit it to try and get candy out of it. Anyway, what else is to be expected? This is a country where a lot of people are in poverty, and many have little to no idea of the life outside of Egypt. A lot of them will assume that it is paradise and that money fall from the air. Get set, ready, BARGAIN
> 
> If you think about it, everybody is different yet the same. Just brought up differently. Good and bad people everywhere, copies and originals. There are exceptional people everywhere, and yet again, the sheep mentality and stupidity is universal.
> 
> Always always use common sense, and trust your instincts. Anywhere and everywhere you go. And follow your heart too. The mind is the most important though.
> 
> With all of that said, even if you prepare yourself all you can, who says it can't go wrong? I'm about to find out myself.
> 
> My boyfriend is a manager at 2 different salons working at a 5 star hotel but he earns the Egyptian wage, very good in that case, 3,000LE + commission. He is willing to support me in every way and it just makes me melt. But I can never depend on someone else completely, so I am going with enough money for at least a few months and an escape plane ticket if anything. I trust my boyfriend for the most part and I love him so much, God is my witness. But it does not hurt to take caution in my opinion. He never has to find out, and if he does, it may hurt him but if he loves, he will understand. I am still telling my boyfriend that I have no money etc. till we live each other for a few days, then I will tell him. I can't bear the tests myself, I want to be honest in everything but our relationship is still a bud. Btw, I'm 18 and he is 26. I'm not putting my life on hold, I have my education online. So another thing, plan for yourself too! Don't put your life on hold because you may regret it, more so if things don't work out.
> 
> As I see it... well... I've been depressed for many years, hating where I am, low self esteem, pessimism, suicidal thoughts, etc.. I don't see myself as having much to lose, but more to gain.
> 
> I felt alive again when I came to Egypt, and happy when I met him. The thought that I can belong, the boost in confidence have helped me strive stronger, given me new energy for what I've always been interested in and dreamed of. I've changed so much for the better, I believe much more now, I taught myself how to cook, I clean and keep the house in order, I dance about, I'm so much better to everyone around me socially and I can feel the respect they have for me, I can express my mind and heart more clearly, I do things more wholeheartedly now, etc. now I actually feel like a true individual. It wasn't love at first sight but I swear to God there must be cupid who shot a thousand arrows through my heart and his at the same time. We didn't talk, we felt it. We have such a connection, such great appreciation for each other. He makes me laugh, he wants me to live, he makes me love.
> 
> I hope and I pray, that our love will be forever young and pure, but, but... we will see.


Hi there, I hope it works out for you. You are only 18 but you seem very mature which will help. I think Vietnamese people are great, i have visited your country and it is great.

I have only been here a few months and in my limited experience I can tell you that most expats i have met here would never have the money and the perks they have if they lived in their home countries. A lot of expats even the executive ones always moan about life here but they forget that in many cases they would have a run of the mill job in their own country. In fact many of them if they workes in europe or the us would probably be on the dole after the last recession.....
Personally i think that in general expats get a very good deal here but it is only my opinion.

The ones truly ripped off are tourists. Some of the tourists may not have a lot of money back home but maybe have come here for the holiday of the lifetime and end up being ripped off which gives them a bad experience. I hate this.
But there is a difference between ripping off an expat and ripping off some couple who have come here on their honeymoon.


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## txlstewart

What is the difference between ripping off a tourist and an expat?


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## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> What is the difference between ripping off a tourist and an expat?


the expat is generally a money bag whilst the tourist generally isn't.

I am not advocating ripping people off if that is what you are getting at.


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## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> the expat is generally a money bag whilst the tourist generally isn't.
> 
> I am not advocating ripping people off if that is what you are getting at.


I think you are just thinking of corporate expats. There are quite a few teachers that don't have the same expat package that someone in the oil industry gets. Not all expats are created equal....


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## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> I think you are just thinking of corporate expats. There are quite a few teachers that don't have the same expat package that someone in the oil industry gets. Not all expats are created equal....


of course. I was referring to people employed by foreign companies.
I know teachers don't get paid enough for what they do, and this applies everywhere, same goes with doctors. I would give a medal to teachers, i understand how difficult it is to teach nowdays and even with this youth here who seem to be narcotic and porn obsessed.


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## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> Hi there, I hope it works out for you. You are only 18 but you seem very mature which will help. I think Vietnamese people are great, i have visited your country and it is great.
> 
> I have only been here a few months and in my limited experience I can tell you that most expats i have met here would never have the money and the perks they have if they lived in their home countries. A lot of expats even the executive ones always moan about life here but they forget that in many cases they would have a run of the mill job in their own country. In fact many of them if they workes in europe or the us would probably be on the dole after the last recession.....
> Personally i think that in general expats get a very good deal here but it is only my opinion.
> 
> The ones truly ripped off are tourists. Some of the tourists may not have a lot of money back home but maybe have come here for the holiday of the lifetime and end up being ripped off which gives them a bad experience. I hate this.
> But there is a difference between ripping off an expat and ripping off some couple who have come here on their honeymoon.




You have stated you have only been here a few months and yet you know what most expats would earn etc in there home country. No executive expat has a run of the mill job in their home country.. we are paid for our expertise.. 
I earn good money here but only because it is tax free.. and in all honesty if I had to pay tax I wouldn't do the job in this country. In my own home country I employ a gardener and a housekeeper so coming here and having a maid is nothing new.

Do you actually know what an expat has to do for their package????


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## marenostrum

i already qualified my statement saying that i have only been here a few months. Do I need to qualify it further? 

The expats i have met are all on good money with various perks. They tell me they would never have this in their own country. I will also ask that most do not want to go back and the ones that don't are from the UK. I find that for the american ones home is always home, not for the others i have met. 

I also know a couple of people who lived the high life in dubai, they got made redundant there and are now back in the uk claiming the dole and cashing the giro, they certianly don't have now what they had in the middle east.


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## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> i already qualified my statement saying that i have only been here a few months. Do I need to qualify it further?
> 
> The expats i have met are all on good money with various perks. They tell me they would never have this in their own country. I will also ask that most do not want to go back and the ones that don't are from the UK. I find that for the american ones home is always home, not for the others i have met.
> 
> I also know a couple of people who lived the high life in dubai, they got made redundant there and are now back in the uk claiming the dole and cashing the giro, they certianly don't have now what they had in the middle east.


..."[F]or the american ones (sic) home is always home..." 

Please clarify--do Americans make wherever they are living homelike or do they pine for home?

(And yes, I always read for content, meaning, and as a proofreader. It is a by-product of my profession!)


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## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> ..."[F]or the american ones (sic) home is always home..."
> 
> Please clarify--do Americans make wherever they are living homelike or do they pine for home?
> 
> (And yes, I always read for content, meaning, and as a proofreader. It is a by-product of my profession!)


i meant they don't mind flying home cause they like their home.
Others are in tears when their contract finishes.:focus:


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## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> i already qualified my statement saying that i have only been here a few months. Do I need to qualify it further?
> 
> The expats i have met are all on good money with various perks. They tell me they would never have this in their own country. I will also ask that most do not want to go back and the ones that don't are from the UK. I find that for the american ones home is always home, not for the others i have met.
> 
> I also know a couple of people who lived the high life in dubai, they got made redundant there and are now back in the uk claiming the dole and cashing the giro, they certianly don't have now what they had in the middle east.




Any UK expat I have met always say home... yes I can understand why they say they don't want to go back to the UK but I would bet it is because the UK is too soft and hands money to all and sundry and it is not because they are living a great life in the UK.


----------



## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> Any UK expat I have met always say home... yes I can understand why they say they don't want to go back to the UK but I would bet it is because the UK is too soft and hands money to all and sundry and it is not because they are living a great life in the UK.


I totally agree with you on this. This is one of the reason i left the UK after living 15 years there. I had a small successfull business there and getting charged a high tax threshold, I got fed up with my tax money being spent on all and sundry as you say. I don't believe in handouts, especially to people like abu hamza...


----------



## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> i meant they don't mind flying home cause they like their home.
> Others are in tears when their contract finishes.:focus:


I guess I was thrown off when you used the word "always"--which doesn't jive with what you just said. 

(Oh, and this is still vaguely on topic. I don't meander off topic as much as you.....lol)


----------



## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> I guess I was thrown off when you used the word "always"--which doesn't jive with what you just said.
> 
> (Oh, and this is still vaguely on topic. I don't meander off topic as much as you.....lol)


:focus::focus::focus:


----------



## HeartDream

Txlstewart........ seriously are you like that in real life too? How do Egyptian people react to your attitude? I wonder what your life is like in all honesty when you have an attitude like that. I felt attacked by your last comment. You cannot use your "profession" to justify a judgmental attitude.


----------



## HeartDream

marenostrum said:


> Hi there, I hope it works out for you. You are only 18 but you seem very mature which will help. I think Vietnamese people are great, i have visited your country and it is great.
> 
> I have only been here a few months and in my limited experience I can tell you that most expats i have met here would never have the money and the perks they have if they lived in their home countries. A lot of expats even the executive ones always moan about life here but they forget that in many cases they would have a run of the mill job in their own country. In fact many of them if they workes in europe or the us would probably be on the dole after the last recession.....
> Personally i think that in general expats get a very good deal here but it is only my opinion.
> 
> The ones truly ripped off are tourists. Some of the tourists may not have a lot of money back home but maybe have come here for the holiday of the lifetime and end up being ripped off which gives them a bad experience. I hate this.
> But there is a difference between ripping off an expat and ripping off some couple who have come here on their honeymoon.


Thank you so much for your blessings Marenostrum, it is very appreciated.  I know what you mean, especially when they are living on expat salaries. I'm a daughter of one and moving to Norway has been hard because everything is so expensive. A Norwegian salary in places like Vietnam or Egypt works out great . It's too bad that people often take things for granted when they get used to the comfort.

Yeah, people would try to rip foreigners off all the same, but they tend to have a fine radar for tourists. It's too bad . I know that happens a LOT in Vietnam. I'll try hard to make friends with people in the market when I come over to Egypt lol

Kind of like, you be honest with me, give me a good price. When I have money I will give ^^. I think it's a job for us as expats. Punish bad behavior, reward good behavior. If someone ripped you off, ignore them, and go to the next seller on purpose and buy loads if they are good . Or just when you go shopping, fling about your shopping bags at the rip off and pay no attention to him/her whatsoever :boxing:

Just a question. In Sharm El Sheikh there is so few Egyptian working women to be seen, is that different in other places? What is a good way to ignore all the flaunting compliments that all the ladies get? I've been thinking of just smiling and walking off and giving no attention, no eye contact etc.. What if there is an insistent one? How do I send the message to back off in a firm and strong way without being overly rude?

Thanks in advance


----------



## MaidenScotland

HeartDream said:


> Thank you so much for your blessings Marenostrum, it is very appreciated.  I know what you mean, especially when they are living on expat salaries. I'm a daughter of one and moving to Norway has been hard because everything is so expensive. A Norwegian salary in places like Vietnam or Egypt works out great . It's too bad that people often take things for granted when they get used to the comfort.
> 
> Yeah, people would try to rip foreigners off all the same, but they tend to have a fine radar for tourists. It's too bad . I know that happens a LOT in Vietnam. I'll try hard to make friends with people in the market when I come over to Egypt lol
> 
> Kind of like, you be honest with me, give me a good price. When I have money I will give ^^. I think it's a job for us as expats. Punish bad behavior, reward good behavior. If someone ripped you off, ignore them, and go to the next seller on purpose and buy loads if they are good . Or just when you go shopping, fling about your shopping bags at the rip off and pay no attention to him/her whatsoever :boxing:
> 
> Just a question. In Sharm El Sheikh there is so few Egyptian working women to be seen, is that different in other places? What is a good way to ignore all the flaunting compliments that all the ladies get? I've been thinking of just smiling and walking off and giving no attention, no eye contact etc.. What if there is an insistent one? How do I send the message to back off in a firm and strong way without being overly rude?
> 
> Thanks in advance




Heartdream

Once you are in Sharm your boyfriend will ward off any man who talks to you..
Never ever smile at a man.. he thinks you want sex. 
Your boyfriend will probably take you shopping so there will be no need for you to make friends with the local market people.


----------



## marenostrum

HeartDream said:


> Just a question. In Sharm El Sheikh there is so few Egyptian working women to be seen, is that different in other places? What is a good way to ignore all the flaunting compliments that all the ladies get? I've been thinking of just smiling and walking off and giving no attention, no eye contact etc.. What if there is an insistent one? How do I send the message to back off in a firm and strong way without being overly rude?
> 
> Thanks in advance


You are asking a man here, and a hot blooded italian at that :eyebrows:

Anyway, you need to be firm. If you make it clear you are with someone and not interested i think you'll be fine but you need to be tough. 
I take it you'll live with your guy so in the long run people will get used to the fact that you are in a relationship there so you will be all right.
Don't give too much confidence to other men unless you know them properly.

If they insist shout sat them, they don't like the attention. tbh honest i don't think sharm will be that bad anyway, they can pick on any italian english german etc etc they want so they are spoilt for choice.

As for the woman question, their wifes or GFs are probably in Cairo as many of these workers commute to sharm.
There are a lot of ladies working in companies in Cairo and hotels etc etc


----------



## HeartDream

MaidenScotland said:


> Heartdream
> 
> Once you are in Sharm your boyfriend will ward off any man who talks to you..
> Never ever smile at a man.. he thinks you want sex.
> Your boyfriend will probably take you shopping so there will be no need for you to make friends with the local market people.


Ugh that is a horrible mindset ((((((((((((((((. Definitely and clearly noted, thank you. You are right, I feel safe with him and nobody ever bothers me then, but he works everyday, 8 morning to 8 evening . Not a single day off. He was off for his brother's wedding but he had to get back to work right after that, he couldn't drive from Cairo back to Sharm because of the protests and the roads being closed, and he was so so worried.... Shows the intensity of his job 



marenostrum said:


> You are asking a man here, and a hot blooded italian at that :eyebrows:
> 
> Anyway, you need to be firm. If you make it clear you are with someone and not interested i think you'll be fine but you need to be tough.
> I take it you'll live with your guy so in the long run people will get used to the fact that you are in a relationship there so you will be all right.
> Don't give too much confidence to other men unless you know them properly.
> 
> If they insist shout sat them, they don't like the attention. tbh honest i don't think sharm will be that bad anyway, they can pick on any italian english german etc etc they want so they are spoilt for choice.
> 
> As for the woman question, their wifes or GFs are probably in Cairo as many of these workers commute to sharm.
> There are a lot of ladies working in companies in Cairo and hotels etc etc


Loool nice. Actually >.< and yeah honestly >.<! this morning I was practicing shouting when I woke up for some reason loooooooool. I got the house to myself atm so I guess that saves some of the embarrassment.


----------



## txlstewart

HeartDream said:


> Txlstewart........ seriously are you like that in real life too? How do Egyptian people react to your attitude? I wonder what your life is like in all honesty when you have an attitude like that. I felt attacked by your last comment. You cannot use your "profession" to justify a judgmental attitude.


You're 18. You're new to this forum. I am trying not to judge you based on what you have posted. Please do the same.


----------



## txlstewart

HeartDream said:


> Just a question. In Sharm El Sheikh there is so few Egyptian working women to be seen, is that different in other places? What is a good way to ignore all the flaunting compliments that all the ladies get? I've been thinking of just smiling and walking off and giving no attention, no eye contact etc.. What if there is an insistent one? How do I send the message to back off in a firm and strong way without being overly rude?
> 
> Thanks in advance


There is a very high rate of unemployment in Egypt. Many men go to Sharm and other tourist destinations in order to find work. Women are not seen working there as the jobs are needed by the men.

In Cairo, you will see men working in lingerie shops. This is because they need to provide for their families, and it is traditionally the man's job to be the provider. 

The economy in Sharm is not strong. First it was the shark attacks in December, now the uneasiness some people feel because of the unrest that is ongoing.

Please come here with open eyes--it is not an easy place to find a job as a local hire. We all want you to have a positive experience here.


----------



## HeartDream

txlstewart said:


> There is a very high rate of unemployment in Egypt. Many men go to Sharm and other tourist destinations in order to find work. Women are not seen working there as the jobs are needed by the men.
> 
> In Cairo, you will see men working in lingerie shops. This is because they need to provide for their families, and it is traditionally the man's job to be the provider.
> 
> The economy in Sharm is not strong. First it was the shark attacks in December, now the uneasiness some people feel because of the unrest that is ongoing.
> 
> Please come here with open eyes--it is not an easy place to find a job as a local hire. We all want you to have a positive experience here.


Thank you, I feel you are a good person but I also feel that you are going overboard with the personal attacks .


----------



## MaidenScotland

HeartDream said:


> Thank you, I feel you are a good person but I also feel that you are going overboard with the personal attacks .


As mod on this board I feel you are making a mountain out of a molehill.. there are IMO no personal attack towards you in any of the posts.

Maiden


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## HeartDream

MaidenScotland said:


> As mod on this board I feel you are making a mountain out of a molehill.. there are IMO no personal attack towards you in any of the posts.
> 
> Maiden


Not on this thread.


----------



## MaidenScotland

HeartDream said:


> Not on this thread.




I said on any posts... please don't try and make something out of nothing


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## HeartDream

MaidenScotland said:


> I said on any posts... please don't try and make something out of nothing


Maybe you thought it was nothing but I found the comment about her basically stating that I'm leaving my father without care without even knowing me was offensive to say the least. Then the judgmental attitude came again. I don't care how old or experienced or educated she is, that doesn't give her an excuse to be so immature even on a forum. Experience and time does you nothing if you do not learn from them and mature. You're obviously close friends or very like minded. Ban me for being 18, ban me for being new, for questioning blunt comments. I wasn't brought up to be a mindless punching bag.


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## MaidenScotland

HeartDream said:


> Maybe you thought it was nothing but I found the comment about her basically stating that I'm leaving my father without care without even knowing me was offensive to say the least. Then the judgmental attitude came again. I don't care how old or experienced or educated she is, that doesn't give her an excuse to be so immature even on a forum. Experience and time does you nothing if you do not learn from them and mature. You're obviously close friends or very like minded. Ban me for being 18, ban me for being new, for questioning blunt comments. I wasn't brought up to be a mindless punching bag.





I will ask you for the last time.... please do not make a mountain out of a molehill...
You have said your piece now leave it at that.

Maiden


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## Nafeisa

*moving to Cairo*

Hi I liked this thread alot and I have only heard a repeat of things Ive heard before from other people and some new things yet still I wanna come there to buy a flat for many reasons. I plan to move to Madinat Nasr hopefuly but I am holding out to save some rediculous lump sum of money. I think we can get on our feet with around 25k, but again Im not sure. I am coming primarily to go to religious school and my dad is Sudaneese and I hold a Sudanese nationality also but born and raised in The united States. I am not opinionated on anyone elses program, goals or reasons for wanting to be there or their likings or dislikings. I have 2 questions maybe 3 lol... #1) is 25k enough for a family of 4 to get on our feet I have toddlers. #2) how is Madinat Nasr? #3) wwhere can I get the best bowl of foul in town. Thanks for reading my post


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## CatMandoo

Nafeisa said:


> Hi I liked this thread alot and I have only heard a repeat of things Ive heard before from other people and some new things yet still I wanna come there to buy a flat for many reasons. I plan to move to Madinat Nasr hopefuly but I am holding out to save some rediculous lump sum of money. I think we can get on our feet with around 25k, but again Im not sure. I am coming primarily to go to religious school and my dad is Sudaneese and I hold a Sudanese nationality also but born and raised in The united States. I am not opinionated on anyone elses program, goals or reasons for wanting to be there or their likings or dislikings. I have 2 questions maybe 3 lol... #1) is 25k enough for a family of 4 to get on our feet I have toddlers. #2) how is Madinat Nasr? #3) wwhere can I get the best bowl of foul in town. Thanks for reading my post


Medinat Nasr is an extremely POOR area. Many of the "thugs" in Cairo come from this area. Take care! You could equate it to the "South side of Chicago". Cabrini Green even.

Don't know about the fuul, I don't eat it.

Also, you will be lucky if you can find a flat for 150000LE, (25K usd). Imho I think you need to rethink this.


----------



## aykalam

CatMandoo said:


> Medinat Nasr is an extremely POOR area.


I disagree, Medinat Nasr is huge and there are some not so great streets there but is certainly not an extremely poor area.

If you want to see extreme poverty in Cairo, check out Imbaba or Faisal or the back streets of Ain-Shams


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## CatMandoo

aykalam said:


> I disagree, Medinat Nasr is huge and there are some not so great streets there but is certainly not an extremely poor area.
> 
> If you want to see extreme poverty in Cairo, check out Imbaba or Faisal or the back streets of Ain-Shams


Thanks for correcting that. I understood it to be a small area, mainly slums.


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## aykalam

CatMandoo said:


> Thanks for correcting that. I understood it to be a small area, mainly slums.


er...no. just to give you an idea, Citystars is in Medinat Nasr.


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## CatMandoo

Not sure what area I was thinking of now? Nasr City, I know. Have family living there.

When I look at this map, yes the area is large, maybe it's just one area that I thought was strictly Medinat Nasr.
http://www.geckogo.com/Guide/Egypt/Cairo-Surrounding-Region/Madinat-an-Nasr/Explore/Map/


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## Nafeisa

Thanks for all of the responses, Its good to see other peoples take on it. I feel alot more comfortable about the area now. Thanks all.


----------



## CatMandoo

Nafeisa said:


> Thanks for all of the responses, Its good to see other peoples take on it. I feel alot more comfortable about the area now. Thanks all.


Do I understand this right? You want to come here, with 2 children and a fourth person (husband, dad??), you want to buy a flat, go to school and enroll your children in school?, you don't have a job, and will bring 25K to do all this?


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## expatagogo

CatMandoo said:


> Do I understand this right? You want to come here, with 2 children and a fourth person (husband, dad??), you want to buy a flat, go to school and enroll your children in school?, you don't have a job, and will bring 25K to do all this?


Not only the financial part - which highly underestimates the cost to purchase, finish, and furnish a flat, as well as educate and feed a family, but do you realize how racist Egypt is?

Just have to put that out there, in case it applies.


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## Nafeisa

well now were talking turkey see cause I need to know the real deal, Im Sudaneese American but from what I've been told they take to the Sudaneese cause they sister countries , however I have known of people to go there "African Americans and be called slurs. You know the one I'm talking about. My girlfriends father is Nubian from Egypt and she is darker Egyptian American Mom she said the race thing too. Now my husband is a firefighter suburban caucasion. Im dark and my girls are very light one with blue eyes. My shell is little tougher though I don't want them to suffer but if its gonna be like Rosewood I can move to Georgia for all that and as for the 25k I know an Egyptian who there in Mansoura she said they luv Sudaneese and i'll be fine......but two others who have been there African American actually one whos living there said don't come another guy and his wife is like its great ...Im confused what do they do?


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## expatagogo

Egyptians are racist, plain and simple.

Even though they are African, you can't convince them they have anything in common with anyone on the continent with darker skin. In their heads, they're African when Egypt plays in the African Cup.

Skin whitening creams ("Fair & Lovely"), colored contact lenses (green and blue), lightening and straightening their hair at the salon, Egyptian women, in particular, suffer from a horrid case of "if it's white, it's right," even though their not-white hands tell the truth.

Racist.

Horribly racist.

I would go as far as to say Egyptians can get past their religious differences and find a common superiority in lighter skin tones.


----------



## ArabianNights

I dont think they really care whether you are Sudanese or not - your foreign and thats it. Trust me, if you have anything the slightest in you that makes you 'western' - which of cause you do, then you'll be treated like one. They do not care about your skin colour or what you look like. Granted, you will be able to blend into society easily, you might be able to play the mind game with the Egyptians in terms of 'what you are' (happens to me) - if you speak Egyptian Arabic (Not Sudanese, but Egyptian Arabic) you'll have a slightly better time of it - but don't count on it. Egyptians are very very very good at this. Mark my words. I also look Egyptian, I am originally Pashtun and I know enough Egyptian Arabic. They still somehow figure out that I am foreign and I dont know what it is - maybe my pronunciation, my accent or whatever. Lots think that I am an Arab from another country, I get Kuwait a lot, or Syrian (!!) when the refugees were here, I was Libyan. I let them think that and just get on with it. But you are not Egyptian, you'll still get ripped off. Unfortunately, yes - they are racist just be prepared for that.


----------



## ArabianNights

expatagogo said:


> Egyptians are racist, plain and simple.
> 
> Even though they are African, you can't convince them they have anything in common with anyone on the continent with darker skin. In their heads, they're African when Egypt plays in the African Cup.
> 
> Skin whitening creams ("Fair & Lovely"), colored contact lenses (green and blue), lightening and straightening their hair at the salon, Egyptian women, in particular, suffer from a horrid case of "if it's white, it's right," even though their not-white hands tell the truth.
> 
> Racist.
> 
> Horribly racist.
> 
> I would go as far as to say Egyptians can get past their religious differences and find a common superiority in lighter skin tones.



Unfortunately, the skin tone issue is not limited to Egypt. Its an issue in parts of Asia too... for example, in India, even if you are Indian the lighter you are, the better and more popular and the better you are treated. The darker you are, the more 'untouchable' you are. Its sad, but true.


----------



## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> Unfortunately, the skin tone issue is not limited to Egypt. Its an issue in parts of Asia too... for example, in India, even if you are Indian the lighter you are, the better and more popular and the better you are treated. The darker you are, the more 'untouchable' you are. Its sad, but true.


I'm sure that's true. It's the same in Latin America.

However, it's also the cold harsh reality in Egypt - the darker the skin, the worst the treatment and the worse the discrimination.

Oh, and that Egypt and Sudan are sisters talk? Not! Egyptians say that when the two countries split, the smart women stayed in Egypt and the women who couldn't cook stayed in Sudan. There's no big love, nor any love lost.


----------



## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> I dont think they really care whether you are Sudanese or not - your foreign and thats it. Trust me, if you have anything the slightest in you that makes you 'western' - which of cause you do, then you'll be treated like one. They do not care about your skin colour or what you look like. Granted, you will be able to blend into society easily, you might be able to play the mind game with the Egyptians in terms of 'what you are' (happens to me) - if you speak Egyptian Arabic (Not Sudanese, but Egyptian Arabic) you'll have a slightly better time of it - but don't count on it. Egyptians are very very very good at this. Mark my words. I also look Egyptian, I am originally Pashtun and I know enough Egyptian Arabic. They still somehow figure out that I am foreign and I dont know what it is - maybe my pronunciation, my accent or whatever. Lots think that I am an Arab from another country, I get Kuwait a lot, or Syrian (!!) when the refugees were here, I was Libyan. I let them think that and just get on with it. But you are not Egyptian, you'll still get ripped off. Unfortunately, yes - they are racist just be prepared for that.





They do care about the colour of your skin they care very much and the darker you are the worse you are treated.
Sudanese here do not want to work for Egyptians because of the way they are treated
.
One Egyptian women complains to me that her husband is too dark.

Fair and lovey must be the biggest cosmetic seller because quite simply they think the fairer the skin the better the person.


----------



## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> Sudanese here do not want to work for Egyptians because of the way they are treated.
> 
> One Egyptian women complains to me that her husband is too dark.


Lost a promising contract last week, I'm certain, because when I was asked the question, "Do you like black people?" my answer was "Why not?" Immediately after the negotiations went south.

Saw the manager of a posh cafe slapping around a street child. When I pleaded with him to stop, he said it was okay because the child was black.

Had to have a maintenance crew into my flat the other day to do some repairs. The television was on, with President Obama on screen. The overwhelming consensus among all of the Egyptians in the room, including the owner of the flat, the repairmen, the baweb, and the baweb's wife, was all of America's problems are because the President is black and black people are "crazy".

Black Americans that have chosen to move here and portray their experience as hunky-dory are either glossing over their experience or they don't know what goes on behind their backs - and maybe even to their faces.

Nafeisa, if you want to come here for schooling, do it with your eyes wide open. Rent before sinking your money into a flat and ending up unhappy with your decision. Know that your husband will be treated like a celebrity (hey, he's white and western which of course means he's rich) and you will not. That's my prediction, anyway, and I don't believe I'm too far off the mark.


----------



## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> Lost a promising contract last week, I'm certain, because when I was asked the question, "Do you like black people?" my answer was "Why not?" Immediately after the negotiations went south.
> 
> Saw the manager of a posh cafe slapping around a street child. When I pleaded with him to stop, he said it was okay because the child was black.
> 
> Had to have a maintenance crew into my flat the other day to do some repairs. The television was on, with President Obama on screen. The overwhelming consensus among all of the Egyptians in the room, including the owner of the flat, the repairmen, the baweb, and the baweb's wife, was all of America's problems are because the President is black and black people are "crazy".
> 
> Black Americans that have chosen to move here and portray their experience as hunky-dory are either glossing over their experience or they don't know what goes on behind their backs - and maybe even to their faces.
> 
> Nafeisa, if you want to come here for schooling, do it with your eyes wide open. Rent before sinking your money into a flat and ending up unhappy with your decision. Know that your husband will be treated like a celebrity (hey, he's white and western which of course means he's rich) and you will not. That's my prediction, anyway, and I don't believe I'm too far off the mark.




The very fact you were asked if you like black people says it all about racism in this country.


----------



## Nafeisa

Thanks so much to all of you I see perfectly clear and I will "NOT" be moving to EGYPT AT ALL..... this site was God sent thanks again all


----------



## MaidenScotland

Nafeisa said:


> Thanks so much to all of you I see perfectly clear and I will "NOT" be moving to EGYPT AT ALL..... this site was God sent thanks again all




It is sad but the reality is a women living here is difficult enough but being black will only make things 100 times harder for you.
good luck on your future choices


----------



## MaidenScotland

In late September 2005, approximately 3,000 mostly Sudanese migrants and their supporters set up a makeshift tent camp outside the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees building in Cairo. For three months, they called on the UNHCR to resettle them in other countries. They also protested their frequent harassment and imprisonment by the Egyptian police, and demanded access to public schools and health care, as well as the right to work legally in Egypt.

On December 30, 2005, the Mubarak government crushed this peaceful sit-in demonstration. About 4,000 Egyptian police encircled the camp, fired water cannons into the crowd, dragged women by their hair, and beat people indiscriminately, according to media reports. More than 2,000 protesters were arrested and at least 27 migrants, including one toddler, were killed in what the Egyptian Interior Ministry alleged was a "stampede." Only after the aggressive intervention of the UNHCR and human rights organizations did the Mubarak government rescind its plans to deport 645 of the detained people as "illegal immigrants."


----------



## MaidenScotland

MaidenScotland said:


> In late September 2005, approximately 3,000 mostly Sudanese migrants and their supporters set up a makeshift tent camp outside the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees building in Cairo. For three months, they called on the UNHCR to resettle them in other countries. They also protested their frequent harassment and imprisonment by the Egyptian police, and demanded access to public schools and health care, as well as the right to work legally in Egypt.
> 
> On December 30, 2005, the Mubarak government crushed this peaceful sit-in demonstration. About 4,000 Egyptian police encircled the camp, fired water cannons into the crowd, dragged women by their hair, and beat people indiscriminately, according to media reports. More than 2,000 protesters were arrested and at least 27 migrants, including one toddler, were killed in what the Egyptian Interior Ministry alleged was a "stampede." Only after the aggressive intervention of the UNHCR and human rights organizations did the Mubarak government rescind its plans to deport 645 of the detained people as "illegal immigrants."




This actually happened at Ramadan.. but of course they were black so that doesn't count


----------



## Nafeisa

MaidenScotland said:


> In late September 2005, approximately 3,000 mostly Sudanese migrants and their supporters set up a makeshift tent camp outside the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees building in Cairo. For three months, they called on the UNHCR to resettle them in other countries. They also protested their frequent harassment and imprisonment by the Egyptian police, and demanded access to public schools and health care, as well as the right to work legally in Egypt.
> 
> On December 30, 2005, the Mubarak government crushed this peaceful sit-in demonstration. About 4,000 Egyptian police encircled the camp, fired water cannons into the crowd, dragged women by their hair, and beat people indiscriminately, according to media reports. More than 2,000 protesters were arrested and at least 27 migrants, including one toddler, were killed in what the Egyptian Interior Ministry alleged was a "stampede." Only after the aggressive intervention of the UNHCR and human rights organizations did the Mubarak government rescind its plans to deport 645 of the detained people as "illegal immigrants."



I am still in shock its so raw. Its also sad because the rest of the world views Egyptians no diffrent than any other African , It makes me appreciate so much more some of the ethics practices here, by no means is the U.S. perfect but I just left Acme supermarket and I live in a perdominatley caucasion area. They are very warm and welcoming even if some talk dirty about race. Its never ever in front of you. I will continue my search for a better destination better yet my husband is trying to land a Firefighter contract some where in the Gulf. Can't say that will be any better but its worth a try. I am soooooooh glad I didn't come there I would have been devistated.


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## CatMandoo

Nafeisa said:


> I just left Acme supermarket and I live in a perdominatley caucasion area. They are very warm and welcoming even if some talk dirty about race. Its never ever in front of you. .


What's the difference if it's in your face or behind your back? Racism is racism, period.


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## MaidenScotland

Nafeisa said:


> I am still in shock its so raw. Its also sad because the rest of the world views Egyptians no diffrent than any other African , It makes me appreciate so much more some of the ethics practices here, by no means is the U.S. perfect but I just left Acme supermarket and I live in a perdominatley caucasion area. They are very warm and welcoming even if some talk dirty about race. Its never ever in front of you. I will continue my search for a better destination better yet my husband is trying to land a Firefighter contract some where in the Gulf. Can't say that will be any better but its worth a try. I am soooooooh glad I didn't come there I would have been devistated.





Sorry but I am at a loss... why would/should we view Egyptians differently from any other African? 

The UK has made a hash of it's immigration policy but at least you know that you wont be shot by the authourities whilst you are laying asleep in a makeshift refugee camp.


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## Nafeisa

CatMandoo said:


> What's the difference if it's in your face or behind your back? Racism is racism, period.


Thats right... It is simply stone cold Racism and its sick.


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## Nafeisa

MaidenScotland said:


> Sorry but I am at a loss... why would/should we view Egyptians differently from any other African?
> 
> The UK has made a hash of it's immigration policy but at least you know that you wont be shot by the authourities whilst you are laying asleep in a makeshift refugee camp.[/QUOte}
> 
> It makes me view the "revolution" diffrently, how can the opressors themselves complain about being oppressed?. This is unfortunate. Maybe they should be taught you get what you give.


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## expatagogo

Nafeisa said:


> It makes me view the "revolution" diffrently, how can the opressors themselves complain about being oppressed?. This is unfortunate. Maybe they should be taught you get what you give.


I've asked the same question myself!

But, all you have to do is have a look at the "men with beards" to see that, if things continue to move in the direction it appears to be going, those that have held their attitude of superiority (based on religion, based on social status, based on skin color, etc.) will be oppressed by, well, "men with beards".

I believe that's commonly known as "karma".


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## CatMandoo

Nafeisa said:


> MaidenScotland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I am at a loss... why would/should we view Egyptians differently from any other African?
> 
> The UK has made a hash of it's immigration policy but at least you know that you wont be shot by the authourities whilst you are laying asleep in a makeshift refugee camp.[/QUOte}
> 
> It makes me view the "revolution" diffrently, how can the opressors themselves complain about being oppressed?. This is unfortunate. Maybe they should be taught you get what you give.
> 
> 
> 
> Racism will never be completely erased, where ever it exists, here in Egypt, America, UK, or any other countries. BUT, it can be minimized with proper education and laws to protect ALL citizens, something totally lacking in Egypt. Egypt has been under the control of an ugly dictator for almost a half a century. It might take just that much longer to enact some real change. I wouldn't be so harsh on it's people.
> 
> Just another thought. Muslims are discriminated against, have hate crimes committed against them on almost a daily basis in America. Does that make the American public in general bad?
Click to expand...


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## Nafeisa

CatMandoo said:


> Nafeisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Racism will never be completely erased, where ever it exists, here in Egypt, America, UK, or any other countries. BUT, it can be minimized with proper education and laws to protect ALL citizens, something totally lacking in Egypt. Egypt has been under the control of an ugly dictator for almost a half a century. It might take just that much longer to enact some real change. I wouldn't be so harsh on it's people.
> 
> Just another thought. Muslims are discriminated against, have hate crimes committed against them on almost a daily basis in America. Does that make the American public in general bad?
> 
> 
> 
> No everyone is not bad.
Click to expand...


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