# HARLEY DAVIDSON PRO's and CON's



## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

I have been taking a very close look at the website for Harley Davidson Manila...I have owned a Harley, (or several of them at the same time), for most of my life. The thought has crossed my mind about owning some sort of transportation after I move to the Philippines.

Can anyone shed some light on or give advice about the Pro's and Con's of owning transportation in the Philippines? Cost of the vehicle, cost of maintenance, cost of good quality fuel, theft statistics, insurance availability and cost, safety on the road, etc. as opposed to just hiring a driver and a car every now and then if I want to see the countryside. After all...it is not the Destination...it's the journey! And touring on a Harley around the Philippines would be a plus for me.

Also, what are the total number of rain days expected in a typical Philippine year if I should decide to purchase a Harley and anticipate getting "wet" on occasion? And are there helmets laws in the Philippines?

Paradise would be awesome with the wind in your hair, cruising along through the Philippine mountainside or a coastal highway with an awesome view of the ocean while straddling the Thunderous Roar of a Harley Davidson. Just like their old commercials..."Put something exciting between your legs...Get a HARLEY!"

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated...


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Cebu Citizen said:


> I have been taking a very close look at the website for Harley Davidson Manila...I have owned a Harley, (or several of them at the same time), for most of my life. The thought has crossed my mind about owning some sort of transportation after I move to the Philippines.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on or give advice about the Pro's and Con's of owning transportation in the Philippines? Cost of the vehicle, cost of maintenance, cost of good quality fuel, theft statistics, insurance availability and cost, safety on the road, etc. as opposed to just hiring a driver and a car every now and then if I want to see the countryside. After all...it is not the Destination...it's the journey! And touring on a Harley around the Philippines would be a plus for me.
> 
> ...


It sounds very appealling. Sometime ago I rode a bike along the coast road on Western Letay and it was a great experience, until the sunburn set in and I still had an hour's ride in front of me. I think my concern would not be so much about the cost of maintainence but the availability. I definetly wouldn't leave the local grease monkey in charge of it.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Thanks Gary D...the local Harley franchise in Manila does have factory trained and qualified mechanics on hand. I would never trust a local grease monkey with my Harley...although that topic kind of reminds me of South Korea. The US Military left tens of thousands of old vintage Harleys there after the Korean War and somehow the Koreans have managed to keep them all running for decades. (If anyone wants to make some good money...go to South Korea...buy as many of these old vintage Harleys as you can...load them into a container to ship back to the US or Europe...partner with someone to refurbish the old collectable bikes...and sit back and collect the rewards). I did this once with twelve old Harleys and the profit was nearly 5 to 6 times what my investment was...unfortunately, life got busy and I never did go back for another load. You can buy one of these old Harleys in South Korea for less than $1,000 and they will sell easily in the US for more than $25k or $30k. Even after the shipping costs, the profits are awesome.

BACK ON TOPIC...The Harley Davidson Company highly recommends not using typical grades of fuel so I was also concerned with the availability of high octane fuel in the Philippines.

I can relate to the great experience you had, (and the sunburn). One my most fond memories on a Harley was after we discovered that most of our squad from Vietnam were all passing away and so before we were all gone...the remaining five of us took a trip to Thailand and rented some Harleys in Bangkok and toured cross country all the way across Thailand, Cambodia and into Vietnam to revisit a few infamous places from our past military service there.

It was the most awesome trip imaginable! Friendship...the countryside...and wild Southeastern Asia...what a combination!


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

If you buy a Harley from the dealer in Manila it will be very expensive. They also only sell the bikes that Singapore HD doesn't or can't sell. For example, if you want to order a specific bike in a specific color you are SOL. I specifically asked the sales girl there, so you are saying that if I want this bike (pointing at a 1.2Mphp VROD) in the Candy orange (stock color in the US) you can't order it? She says, sorry sir, all we have is what you see and can't order. This is the mindset of their sales people? Walking away on a commission of a 1.2Mphp sale? Now I am sure that if I really wanted to get the bike in said color, and approached the manager, they could really work out a deal and get what the customer wanted. It's just the point.

Back on topic. High Octane fuel (Shell V-Power 98 octane, Petron Blaze 100 octane) are available countrywide. I own a VROD and have rode it from Manila to Davao and back (2011) and all over Luzon. 

The Harley Dealer in Manila doesn't really have a maintenance shop and really is more of a Satellite/extension of Singapore HD. You can find a few good big bike mechanics in Manila, Angeles and Cebu.

Vehicle owning Pro's;

Freedom to go whenever, wherever you wish on a whim.
No hassle of a taxi when grocery shopping (in the Pickup)

Con's;

Cop harrassment in metropolitan areas (when they see a foreigner), heavy tinted window investment will pay for itself in the long run
Keeping calm in the horrendous traffic of Manila and Cebu
Prepare to be at fault for any accident encountered ("if you weren't there it wouldn't have happened" mentality from the Police)

Road Hazards;

Pot holes
Unannounced construction/abrupt lane disappearance
Rice drying in half of the road (common in the provinces)
Children, goats, chickens, dogs jumping out in front of you
Trikes doing their infamous UTurns without signal (they don't work anyways)
Jeepneys stopping in the road (no brake lights/turn signals working)
Hard concrete highways, especially in the rural areas.
Very rarely will you encounter asphalt highways (the Expressways, Illocos Norte, Cebu, and some other places)
A**holes trying to pass you from the right (emergency lane) and when there is no space to pass you
Tailgaters (drivers here have no Common Driving sense and do not understand the physics of braking, 1 car length per 10MPH distance between vehicles is a good example)
Assume all vehicles around you are poorly maintained (bald tires, under inflated, under powered, bad brakes)

Costs;

Labor dirt cheap (400p/hour for vehicle mechanic, 1500p/hour for a good big bike mechanic)
Parts expensive (HD parts will be 40-80% higher (has tariffs on them) and will take several weeks minimum to receive)
Fuel is on par with the US ($4.75/gallon premium, $3.75/gallon Diesel)
Annual Registration - 1200p for my VROD, 3000p for my Diesel Pickup
Additional Insurance - 16000p/annually for the VROD, 12000p/annually for the Pickup
Goodyear 295R18 AT tires = 38,000p for a set of 5
Brand new Mitsubishi L200 Diesel Pickup 4x4 - 1.2Mphp
Brand new Toyota Van - 1Mphp
Brand new VROD - 1.2Mphp
Brand new Ford Mustang - 3-4Mphp (depends on package purchased)

As you can see, vehicle prices are 50-100% more than the US.

I always wear a textile mesh riding jacket, kevlar jeans, modular helmet and gloves when riding. It's hot as hell but safe from road rash and sunburn in the end (Hydrate hydrate hydrate and save the beer for the end of the road). There are helmet laws (not as strictly enforced in the rural areas but makes you susceptible to the crooked cop). You must have a helmet with the holographic sticker on it (can't bring one in from the US). So you have to buy one locally. Finding riding gear in your size almost impossible (bring with you from the US minus the helmet).

Finding used vehicles is not hard. Finding quality used vehicles is another story. Also, there are many pitfalls in buying a used big bike (vehicle was smuggled in and not registered properly if at all, etc.). Back in 2009, I paid 500,000p for a used 2005 Mitsubishi L200 4X4 pickup. I was searching for over a year before I found the right deal.

Do I regret owning a vehicle? No. Freedom and flexibility is worth more than the cost. Keeping informed is the best way to avoid cop harassment. I currently have 2 pickups and the VROD.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Also importing your own HD or other vehical, if allowed, will be prohibitively expensive. 100% of cost new import duty.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Jon1...THANKS and thanks again for the awesome reply and the fully detailed and complete responses to my questions. Very valuable information!

I have said it before...ask any question in this forum and there is sure to be someone who has first hand knowledge of your exact predicament with valid advice and/or suggestions.

Since you ride, perhaps you might be able to answer this question as well: Are there any organized rides going on in the Philippines? Someplace where an ExPat with a Harley might cruise the islands and meet with other like minded Harley enthusiasts?

Thanks again Jon1 for your involvement in this forum...


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Cebu Citizen said:


> Since you ride, perhaps you might be able to answer this question as well: Are there any organized rides going on in the Philippines? Someplace where an ExPat with a Harley might cruise the islands and meet with other like minded Harley enthusiasts?


There are MCs in the PI complete with the vest and patch. An Aussie MC had a tent on Fields in Angeles at the last Australian Day celebration in Jan, but don't think that's what you mean lol.


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

the problem that I see with a Harley-Davidson bike is the import fees, usually the same cost as a new bike in the USA. Remember, too, that there are restrictions on where you can ride them, on the big highways, you have to have a minimum 400cc engine. Another problem is that you might have a problem if you need work to be done on the bike, not all bike mechanics will have the tools, parts, etc., to do a major repair on a Harley.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Thanks for the update but these are not issues with a Harley since they don't make small engine bikes...the smallest Harley I know of is an 800 and they go up from there...1200...1450...1600 and so on...so a little 400cc limitation is no restriction for a Harley.

And since I am not importing a bike...I would purchase a new one from the local dealer...it would be under factory warranty for a good long period...

I have an email from the Manila Harley shop and they said they offer a 60 month extended warranty and they can have any necessary parts in two or three days...

Plus, I have not made a firm decision yet...I am only considering a purchase after I arrive in country. As Jon1 pointed out, the Manila Harley shop has a limited selection...so buying a Harley in Manila will depend greatly on what bikes they actually have in stock.

As always, I do appreciate all the feedback from everyone...


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Cebu Citizen said:


> Jon1...THANKS and thanks again for the awesome reply and the fully detailed and complete responses to my questions. Very valuable information!
> 
> I have said it before...ask any question in this forum and there is sure to be someone who has first hand knowledge of your exact predicament with valid advice and/or suggestions.
> 
> ...


You are welcome CC

If in Manila, the dealership is doing organized HOG rides. I also know of a mixed informal group that rides from Manila to outlying areas (Tagaytay, AC, etc.) at least once a month. I prefer to not be associated with any of the groups. There are also 1%ers over here too that I definitely stay away from. I have a few Expat friends (mostly Aussies n Brits) that have Harleys and we do a lot of local rides when they are back on their breaks (3 or 4 times a week). I also have a group of friends from Finland that have their own little group. They do long rides every few months (2-3 days).

Also up in San Antonio, Zambales, there is big Expat community (at least a 1000) and a lot of them have bikes and ride.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Once again...great information Jon1. I wasn't aware there were so many biker enthusiasts in the Philippines...nice to know...


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Asians love motorcycles. Everywhere you stop for gas will have many people drooling over/oggling your Harley.

Check out this link Main Index - Motorcycle Philippines Classifieds for an idea of what the prices are for used bikes. Again, before buying any bike make sure that you check with the Philippine Highway Patrol to see if it is a legit registration. Also another good tip, if the license plate is expired, walk away. It's a good indicator of a problem with the registration (not legit).


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Jon1...nice link...as you pointed out, it was good info about the general pricing of bikes in the Phils.

Although I am not initially planning on purchasing a used bike...the tip about the registration and expired tags is very valuable info to know.

I am a 500,000 mile registered HOG member, with miles logged in a couple dozen countries around the world and I have riding in my blood, so even with my retirement I am not sure I'm ready to let go of Harley ownership just yet.

I have a few more miles left in me...lol!

I like the laid back rides in the country, so I hope the traffic, rice drying and hassles from local law enforcement are all tolerable.


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

That's quite impressive on the miles! I am not in the same class as I only have about 40,000 logged since 2007 here in the Phils. Never rode a motorcycle in the US. 

You can have all of the laid back rides in the province as long as you do not set a time schedule/pace and take your time and see the country.

It definitely makes it more enjoyable. Another reason why I rarely ride in groups. I go at the pace that I feel like at that moment


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Harley in the Philippines*



Cebu Citizen said:


> I have been taking a very close look at the website for Harley Davidson Manila...I have owned a Harley, (or several of them at the same time), for most of my life. The thought has crossed my mind about owning some sort of transportation after I move to the Philippines.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on or give advice about the Pro's and Con's of owning transportation in the Philippines? Cost of the vehicle, cost of maintenance, cost of good quality fuel, theft statistics, insurance availability and cost, safety on the road, etc. as opposed to just hiring a driver and a car every now and then if I want to see the countryside. After all...it is not the Destination...it's the journey! And touring on a Harley around the Philippines would be a plus for me.
> 
> ...



I only dream of riding a Harley down the road, I think that would be awesome but buy it here, I couldn't imagine all the loop holes and costs involved in trying to get your Harley out of customs.

Any vehicle you own will have its ups and downs when it comes to parts if you rely on parts stores, sometimes they can provide you with the parts (rare) but machine shops and salvage area's provide the rest or worst case ordering these parts online.

My experience riding my Yamaha FZR 600, Honda silver wing for 10 years on Guam was great at first but when I had to use it as a the main means of transportation to and from work...it became a huge burden of being completely soaked by the constant rain showers and what a nightmare in the Philippines the roads are not taken care of so keeping off the rust, dirt/dusty uncleaned roads and sun damage it takes its toll. 

I had a Honda wave mini motorcycle (Philippines) and it was really nice driving that around but when the helmet laws went into effect or the police set up check points and I got caught in one the riding lost some of its glamour and fun, it can get so darn hot here and to wear a helmet is agonizing, especially when traveling such short distances and slow speeds, in tight situations the helmet becomes burden and a visual blocker.


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## wlundsten (Dec 29, 2014)

I want to bring my 2008 (105 anniversary) FLHTCU and know that the fees are going to be crazy but has to be less than the 2 M I would have to pay for a new one...does anyone know of a contact with the Bureau of Customs here in the Philippines??


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

wlundsten said:


> I want to bring my 2008 (105 anniversary) FLHTCU and know that the fees are going to be crazy but has to be less than the 2 M I would have to pay for a new one...does anyone know of a contact with the Bureau of Customs here in the Philippines??


I don't have contact info for them;using cp. Try looking on internet


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

The fees could equal it's cost as new.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Harley Davidson*



wlundsten said:


> I want to bring my 2008 (105 anniversary) FLHTCU and know that the fees are going to be crazy but has to be less than the 2 M I would have to pay for a new one...does anyone know of a contact with the Bureau of Customs here in the Philippines??


They'll be some happy Bureau of Customs employee's when your Harley arrives, along with their Porches, Mustangs and Corvette's they'll have a brand new Harley Davidson to show off with, the girl friends love it, keep in mind the average salary of the Bureau of Customs is 15,000 peso's so a little under $300 per month.

Before I retired the Navy sent me to a one week course (Guam) and the instructor was from the VA, most of the questions asked to him were from me and several other guys that were about to retire to the Philippines, one of the students was Navy Captain and he was curious if there were any additional charges, he had had an antique Mercedes, he was told that the taxes are based on the high blue book value of his vehicle and also that the *Philippines has it's own blue book *age makes no difference, so basically the cost of vehicle shipped would be about half the price of a new vehicle.

4 years back the Bureau of Customs had a huge lot of fancy sports cars and motorcycles up for auction, actually who knows what happens to these car's, the news here will air a segment and no follow up on who got the vehicles, so they get so many vehicles that show up and the owner can't or won't pay the cost to get their vehicle.

Another disturbing issue I found was that when you register your vehicle they take your engine, transmission and body S/N down for file but I've seen several news stories showing brand new vehicles, SUV's the works, all stolen..... but the owners? They don't seem to get notified, whole parking lots of vehicles, they don't know who they belong to, the news/media doesn't question this and no follow up. :noidea:


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

wlundsten said:


> I want to bring my 2008 (105 anniversary) FLHTCU and know that the fees are going to be crazy but has to be less than the 2 M I would have to pay for a new one...does anyone know of a contact with the Bureau of Customs here in the Philippines??


Bottom line up front: You will not be able to LEGALLY bring in your bike. Only brand new or never registered, less than one year old, vehicles are legally allowed for import. If you engage the Bureau of Customs and are told otherwise, you are being scammed or participating in a bribing operation to get it entered into the system.

The only legal exception to this that I am aware of is if you are an Embassy employee and are exempt (you will get a diplomat plate for your bike). The Embassies have people that can arrange for all of this.

I would hold onto your beloved bike in your home country until you can determine if you are going to stay in the Philippines for good (after several years). 

If you want a Harley after you move here, by one at the dealership in Manila and it's best to avoid buying a used one unless you are 100% sure that it is legally registered in the Philippines (check with the Highway Patrol Group).


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I'd also be very careful about the availability of reliable spare parts and factory trained mechanice.

OK if you wil be living near the dealership, but may be a concern oif you are a ways away


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Manitoba said:


> I'd also be very careful about the availability of reliable spare parts and factory trained mechanice.
> 
> OK if you wil be living near the dealership, but may be a concern oif you are a ways away


Yes that is a good point too. You may find a reliable mechanic in Cebu or Davao, I do not know. I have a very good mechanic in Angeles and know of another there also. We also help each other out with getting our bikes fixed too (spare parts etc.). 

There are fair numbers of Harleys in Cebu, Manila, Davao, Angeles and Subic. After that they are spread out in small numbers throughout the country.

Getting a bike dyno tuned is near impossible (only one or two dynos available and they are in MetroManila).


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Great info and feedback...thanks for all the replies!

I've only been here for two months now but I am really leaning towards the ownership of a personal vehicle because I cherish the availability of having transportation on demand. I can't count how many times I have been stranded trying to get a taxi and can never find one when I need one...but if I don't need one, they are everywhere!

My biggest concern is learning the roads and getting around. The road system here does not make any since and it seems like getting from one place to another involves changing from one street to another at least 20 times...

Still trying to learn the area around my current apartment/condo and just when I think I have figured out how to get somewhere, I discover I was mistaken...


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Different style of driving*



Cebu Citizen said:


> Great info and feedback...thanks for all the replies!
> 
> I've only been here for two months now but I am really leaning towards the ownership of a personal vehicle because I cherish the availability of having transportation on demand. I can't count how many times I have been stranded trying to get a taxi and can never find one when I need one...but if I don't need one, they are everywhere!
> 
> ...


I had some concerns also when I started driving in busy intersections or pulling out into traffic, making the traffic wait for me. I learned all the tricks from watching others doing it here, they let you pull out in the worst of traffic and allow you in.

Some area's I had close calls in were motorcycles passing on both sides of my car and making sure that I keep my car in one lane and double check before changing lanes. Patience with those blocking lanes with tricycles, bicycles and pedi tricycles, push carts. When passing tricycles some speed up, it's a macho issue here and it's very bad, most don't like to give way or give in to someone who wish's to pass them.

I also won't follow the bad behavior of many drivers here, I'll give way to those in walk ways if someone is following me to close from behind me I'll pull over and let him pass to reduce stress and a possible accident, allow others to merge and try to make it a pleasurable experience, it's taken me a very long time to learn this.

I spent 10 years on Guam with my motorcycles and it's no fun getting wet or exposed to the elements such as the hot sun, the weather currently is cool but there are times it's so darn hot you bake.


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## colemanlee (Nov 17, 2014)

Just thought I would add somethings about harleys here...In the states I had a Ultra Classic, loved the bike but gave it to my son before coming here as it would have been to costly to import. 
Now that I've been here a few years I am actually glad I did not bring it. Why, mainly because it was a very heavy bike, and there are places I go on a regular basis that I doubt I could get it turned around without help. 
Roads/streets here are much smaller than in the states, if you happen to get something like a harley parked in the wrong position (say pointed downhill with limited room) could you get almost 1000 lbs turned around by yourself?
While on the road it would be great, getting to an open road involves for me a lot of maneuvering on small congested streets.
I guess if I lived somewhere like Manila, Cebu, AC it would not be a big deal, but here in Tacloban I think it would be more trouble than its worth..
Possibly something like a sportster would be ok, but larger like my old Ultra, not for me.
Also, Im 67 now and as much as my ego hates to admit it, I dont have the get up and go I once did....I am considering something like a Royal Enfield and will look at one in Cebu this week...keeping in mind the above...


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