# Need help moving to portugal



## COUNTRYFOLK

Hi

We have just joined this site, because hopefully we soon will be expats ourselves.

I make my own jewellery which I sell online and my husband builds custom bikes & trikes, does welding & fabrication. His pastime is online gaming and he tests games for microsoft and sony, he also has a gaming forum with a large community.

We have many questions to ask about Portugal, but we would like to ask 1 at a time. Hopefully you can help us.

We would like to buy a property in Portugal ( it can be Southern, Central or North ). We would like and are hoping to move into a more remote area, than a built up area.

However we have hit a stumbling block, for which we hope some of you can help with. As you can see broadband is of the upmost importance to us. To us it is a deal breaker.

The property we buy MUST have broadband ( ASDL prefereably ) or Portugals equivalent. Dongles will not do. We require around 7 megabites. This part of our property hunt is very important to us, as both of our businesses are online & my husband has contracts with microsoft and sony. Plus we keep in touch with family & friends with skype.

We are trying to build up a map of Portugal that has our above broadband requirements. So we need to know:-
1. Who do we speak to
2. How do we get to build this map, that has broadband
3. What are the companies supplying broadband to Portugal.
Could you please supply a link, tel number or any contact you have for this, 
along with any experience that you have with these companies.

Without coming across as rude, we are interested in facts and not hear say.

We would be very grateful to hear from as many individuals as possible stating if your area does or does not receive our broadband requirements. This may help us build up a map.

I contacted Sapo via the PT website sending an email written in English asking for this information, and although I received an email of acknowledgement I have heard nothing since, this was a week ago.

Thank you in advance for any help given.


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## ferragudofan

we are in the Algarve - we are with Sapo and we have wireless broadband - works very well and pretty fast 36.0 mbps
Very rarely dips out and costs us 19.99 a month unlimited with free evening and weekend calls
I think Faro actually has fibre optic - with Sapo - you'd need to check the exact location - we asked but were told 'only Faro' at the moment....
hope that starts the ball rolling for you!


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## Maria Fenton

Hi,

I live in a village, about 20 km from Leiria. It isn't remote, in the sense that it isn't a deserted place, but, iti is only a village.
At the moment I have internet with Vodafone, Best Net Plus, using just a pen, I can have up to 4 megabites, unlimited usage and time, and pay 23.00 a month. I can also use it anywhere in the country, which means that if I decide to move, I don't need to change anything.
It works well, and this amount of megabites suits me fine.


However, they also have different deals; the next one up is is called Best Net Max, 7.2 megabites, unlimited, 35.00 euros a month. They two others, with more megabites, up to 43.2paying 50 euros a month.
Vodafone Portugal ? telemóveis, internet, televisão

I don't know if Vodafone works all over Portugal, but beeing one of the biggest companies, I would say so, unless you really decide to live in the moutains, completly isolated.

I find that this mobile internet works well, and gives you freedom.


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## canoeman

It you want the speed and bandwith then your only real option is going to be the opposite to a more remote area.
The only service that will supply what your after is Meo Fibre Optic and you might find it easier to contact PT the parent company for Meo, Sapo, TMN and ask where they can currently supply the service your after now or in 6 , 12, 18 months
PT does telephone, 
Sapo does Internet,
Meo new cable, TV,Phone, Internet service 
TMN mobile and dongles

Quality and speed of service is very depend on location and very seriously if you want remote, your not going to get the speed or reliability your after.
Remote generally depends on Dongles the 3 major suppliers are TMN, Vodafone, Optimus, but again it depends on what is available from your local mast, not all masts have 3-4G capabilities.


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## robc

COUNTRYFOLK said:


> Hi
> 
> and although I received an email of acknowledgement I have heard nothing since, this was a week ago.
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help given.


Hi and welcome to the site. I hope that your search goes well for you.

I would suggest you consider your statement above as this is really quite good by Portuguese standards. If you are by nature impatient then Portugal could, and almost certainly will frustrate the h**l out of you.

Everything but everything is on a different timescale to Northern Europe, it is not a criticism it is fabulous and is for many of us one of the appeals of a slower lifestyle but it is not to everyone's taste.

Having recently researched and installed phones and broadband then I would suggest you get the actual speeds carefully checked out as they fluctuate greatly (as in the U.K.)

HTH

Rob


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## COUNTRYFOLK

ferragudofan said:


> we are in the Algarve - we are with Sapo and we have wireless broadband - works very well and pretty fast 36.0 mbps
> Very rarely dips out and costs us 19.99 a month unlimited with free evening and weekend calls
> I think Faro actually has fibre optic - with Sapo - you'd need to check the exact location - we asked but were told 'only Faro' at the moment....
> hope that starts the ball rolling for you!


Hi Ferragudofan

Thank you for your reply.

The deal you have sounds very similar to the UK situation and deals. However we wouldn't be able to live in a town at all, as in England we live in the deep countryside and wouldn't be able to change our life style now and adapt to town life.

This internet post is very important to us because our businesses totally rely on the internet, as does money from microsoft and sony. So apart from the odd blip here and there which is the norm with broadband, it has to be reliable and if you consider 7 megabites fast, then fast.

But thank you again for your information


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## COUNTRYFOLK

Maria Fenton said:


> Hi,
> 
> I live in a village, about 20 km from Leiria. It isn't remote, in the sense that it isn't a deserted place, but, iti is only a village.
> At the moment I have internet with Vodafone, Best Net Plus, using just a pen, I can have up to 4 megabites, unlimited usage and time, and pay 23.00 a month. I can also use it anywhere in the country, which means that if I decide to move, I don't need to change anything.
> It works well, and this amount of megabites suits me fine.
> 
> 
> However, they also have different deals; the next one up is is called Best Net Max, 7.2 megabites, unlimited, 35.00 euros a month. They two others, with more megabites, up to 43.2paying 50 euros a month.
> 
> I don't know if Vodafone works all over Portugal, but beeing one of the biggest companies, I would say so, unless you really decide to live in the moutains, completly isolated.
> 
> I find that this mobile internet works well, and gives you freedom.



Hi Maria

Thank you for your reply and for reading our post.

When we say remote we don't mind living just outside a village, maybe a mile or so away, with no neighbours.

By you stating that you have internet by Vodaphone, I take it that you do not have any means of ASDL yet in the village.

Given the fact that I don't really know the location of your village, are all villages around you like this?

On your experience of living there, where would you say is the nearest location that you could have ADSL Broadband

The reason I am asking you for this information is so that I can build up a picture of where ADSL broadband would likely be. 

Thank you for your time.


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## Maria Fenton

*Internet*



COUNTRYFOLK said:


> Hi Maria
> 
> Thank you for your reply and for reading our post.
> 
> When we say remote we don't mind living just outside a village, maybe a mile or so away, with no neighbours.
> 
> By you stating that you have internet by Vodaphone, I take it that you do not have any means of ASDL yet in the village.
> 
> Given the fact that I don't really know the location of your village, are all villages around you like this?
> 
> On your experience of living there, where would you say is the nearest location that you could have ADSL Broadband
> 
> The reason I am asking you for this information is so that I can build up a picture of where ADSL broadband would likely be.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Hi!

I happy to help, if I can.

There is ADSL, in the main village, and if I had wanted to, PT, would have put a line in, but for that, they would have had to put up a big telephone post, and I didn't want it at my front door, so I gave it up. Plus, the deal which interested me, and was available only by cable, would not be available with ADSL (for me that was unlimited free phone calls abroad to landlines).

Since then PT wouldn't not leave me alone, calling me at all times!!! I now changed my number.

The village where I live is called Calvaria de Cima, near Porto de Mos and Batalha, central Portugal, but near the coast (about 22 km from Nazare).
It is quite, but I do have neighbours.

I think that if you don't end up living too far from a village, perhaps you will be ok, even with mobile internet.

Mobile internet means that you don't need to put in a landline, and can just have a mobile phone. I also put in two satelites, one for europe, one for the UK programmes (I am portuguese, but my husband was english). I payed around 650euros, (included 3 receptors, which means you can have 3 different programmes on), but then you don't have to pay ever again.

Near Porto de Mos, there are Mira D'Aire moutain (Serrra), and Serra dos Candeeiros. In between there are houses, which are quite isolated from one another, but which are connect by a good road.
Mira D'Aire has the Caves, which last year won an award for one the Seven Wonders of the World. 

Perhaps, you can start looking around this area. If you like, have a look at these websites: www.era.pt and .: Casas, apartamentos ou moradias, para comprar ou vender casa, contacte-nos! Soluções Anti-Crise RE/MAX:. (they are 2 of the main estate agents in Portugal). Type in Mira D'Aire, Pedreiras, Alvados, etc.
After the main town, they give a choice of Freguesia, which means "Council Area", as opposed to District (Distrito), therefore, you research smaller areas, by choosing Freguesia (then names of villages will come up, just click on one), 

Regards.

Maria


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## canoeman

I should have posted that if you check Sapo, TMN, Vodafone, Optimus sites they all have "broadband" availability searches.

As you say the broadband connection is of primary importance it is a start but it is only an indication and has to be verified, reality is often very very different you will only get a good reliable, fast service by being close to a hub.

Re Maria's point about Dongles it all depends on the mast you use, where we are only TMN can give us anything at 3G, and ADSL via phone is appalling because of distance to hub, yet if we moved about 3kms south we could get a better ADSL service because we'd come under a different circuit.
A further point about Meo, I believe that it is only in towns that fibre optic is available direct to house and that a lot of connections use landlines for the final hook up. 

If you really want remote, rural, or close to a village your other option could be satellite, search for some posts by travellingman


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## notlongnow

It's all the same as in the UK essentially.

- Unless you have a fibre service such as Meo Fibra, it all depends on your distance from the nearest exchange as ADSL essentially runs on old style copper cabling. 

- Just as in England, the infrastructure has built up over time, so your physical distance from the exchange doesn't ALWAYS tally up with the bandwidth you expect. As an example, we once lived in Surbiton, Surrey, about 100 yards from the nearest exchange, but our house predated that exchange and was therefore wired all the way to Kingston.

- When ADSL is commissioned on a line the sync phase takes place over the first couple of weeks and this decides the speed you line will typically sync at.

- Your odds of decent bandwidth in a remote area are far slimmer than they are in a town. 

In Tavira we get about 6MB, and it's as good and consistent as what we had in London. That serves us well for two of us working full time from home, often with concurrent Skype calls, VPN and remote connections.

Although you may be able to BROADLY produce your map, you have no guarantee of what your sync speed will until your ADSL is provisioned....and it's no different in the UK (hence service offerings of "up to X meg broadband.")

PS. Forgive my pedantry but ADSL bandwidth is measured in Megabits. MegaBYTES are typically used to measure amounts of memory and quantities of data.



> I contacted Sapo via the PT website sending an email written in English asking for this information, and although I received an email of acknowledgement I have heard nothing since, this was a week ago.


As a previous poster has said, nothing moves quickly in this country, It's why many of us like it. In the nicest possible way, you may find that you will receive faster responses if you ask Portuguese companies questions in Portuguese.


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## canoeman

Concur, but think if countryfolk do get a reply it will refer them to the online facility to check availability


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## COUNTRYFOLK

Hi to everyone who has posted up on this subject, I am the Husband. I have read your comments and replies with great interest. I do hope you do not mind me also quoting on your posts. 

As always with forums. some members will have more in common with you than others. We are by no means retired yet, and if this goverment have anything to do with it, retirement will happen once I pay all my taxes and in a box. 

All countries have their problems in this economic crisis, which brings me to a worrying thought. IF Portugal is say 10 or so years behind the UK on broadband / internet / communications, then how within this economic crisis are Portugal planning to bring themselves up to date? My first guess.....and I might add based on no experience of how Portugal operates, they wont be bringing themselves up to date untill this crissis is over. 

Now in the UK we are talking 5 to 10 years, at least! other countries will differ from this recovery time. IF we can belive that date at all. 

I know in the UK the way things are going, I know how, to a certain extent, how the UK plans to recover, but that is me speaking, as a Uk resident for over 50 years. 


Again thankyou to everybody who has and who will be helping us on our quest.


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## canoeman

Think you might have missed the point that Portugal is predominantly a rural country, so any investment on fibre optics, fast broadband etc will be in or around the major population and work areas, and will expand outwards from there, so if you want a rural life then 7mb of broadband aren't going to be there or extremely unlikely to be there.

Recent articles on Portugal's recovery Lisbon Story with Balkan Lessons are saying it's meeting and even exceeding some of the Troika targets, but yes it's going to be a hard road, hopefully one of the major benefits will be a slimmed down bureaucratic system which will encourage expansion. 

In quite a few respects Portugal is in advance of the UK, partly because they didn't have the infrastructure so more modern equipment and systems where introduced or developed the Multibanco system being a good example.


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## robc

I would agree with Canoe, if you are in or near a town or city then things are way way better then in the UK for such things as Broadband, if out in the "sticks" then it is the same.

Portugal is not "behind" in my opinion. It is a small country with circa 10 million people which in turn means that its GDP will be lower than a country with say 65 Million people.

Likewise its debts are also way lower (iirc the last time the figures were published the U.K debt stood at £1.4 Trillion ).

It is also fair to say that in my experience to date, every time we have researched something that we specifically need, Portugal has delivered and nearly always at a significantly lower cost.

If you want to live remotely then, irrespective of the country, access to services will be compromised, Won't it?

Rob


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## travelling-man

FWIW, We moved from RSA to central PT about 6 months ago and have similar needs to the original poster. 

We're near Figueiro Dos Vinhos and they're currently putting in the fibre optic cables in this area....... once in and functioning then the problem will be well and truly solved.

We've just bought a house and are going to try the PT phone and unlimited internet option first, then if that doesn't give us what we need, we'll try the new MEO fibre optic option if it's available and if not, we'll go the the Bentley Walker satellite option...... 

The satellite option isn't as expensive as we first thought and a new made friend who already has BW tells me the system is easily fast enough for his needs.


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## canoeman

Just a note on PT & Meo the big problem is until everything is actually installed you can't find out if it delivers and you then need to extricate yourself from a tight 12 to 18 month contract also sign for the slowest speed it's very easy to increase but a real nightmare altering contract to the speed you actually get.
PT/Sapo the easiest way to find out reality is to quiz your neighbours who hopefully are on the same line.
Does BW give you any information on service during bad weather etc and sat used ?either W7 or W3A give best coverage for Portugal but presumably you need line of sight and so far there a bit coy on giving that information.


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## travelling-man

I don't have any first hand experience of the BW product I'm afraid but their site seems to be fairly informative..... as to weather, I guess one gets similar problems as with the BGANS & RBGANS and I do have a fair bit of experience of those...... Generally, the only times one gets slowdown is with very thick cloud cover and we suffered occasional complete loss but usually only for a few hours.

All that said, that was in places such as the Selous game reserve and Masailand in Tanzania and whether reception etc is the same in Europe, I simply don't know.

Happily the BW products have FAR lower running costs than the BGAN & RBGANS etc. :clap2:


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## notlongnow

> IF Portugal is say 10 or so years behind the UK on broadband / internet / communications,


It's not 10 or so years behind. Ten years ago *in the UK* you had small offices managing on 256k leased lines. 

I get a better DSL speed here on a domestic connection than I did in South London. Major cites and towns have access to fiber infrastructures, and the 3G/4G infrastructure here is (subjectively) far more stable than I ever experienced it in the UK. 

What you are after is fast DSL in a rural area - there are plenty of rural areas in the UK that still couldn't give you more than 1 or 2 MB. Even taking into account balancing factors such as Virgin's 50mb cable service, the UK's average broadband speed for 2011 was only 6mb.

Ofcom | Average broadband speed is still less than half advertised speed


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## canoeman

Tm you might like to check your location, line of sight, angles etc with this site Satellite Finder / Dish Pointing Calculator with Google Maps | DishPointer.com

BW have replied with info that sat is KA-Sat 9deg East, I'm waiting for confirmation that this is actually the Eutelsat KA-SAT 9A


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## grandwazoo

notlongnow said:


> It's not 10 or so years behind. Ten years ago *in the UK* you had small offices managing on 256k leased lines.
> 
> I get a better DSL speed here on a domestic connection than I did in South London. Major cites and towns have access to fiber infrastructures, and the 3G/4G infrastructure here is (subjectively) far more stable than I ever experienced it in the UK.
> 
> What you are after is fast DSL in a rural area - there are plenty of rural areas in the UK that still couldn't give you more than 1 or 2 MB. Even taking into account balancing factors such as Virgin's 50mb cable service, the UK's average broadband speed for 2011 was only 6mb.
> 
> Ofcom | Average broadband speed is still less than half advertised speed


Yes, just to agree - 4G rollout here in Portugal is well in advance of the UK. They expect to cover 90% of the country by the end of this year, whereas in the UK they are still trialling the service.

My other point is - why 7Mb/s? Surely you're not hosting your own websites? You don't need it for email or browsing, or even for maintaining a website. That sort of speed is mostly for streaming music and videos, which you haven't mentioned.


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## canoeman

They did say he was a games checker developer, but whether they actually need 7 Mb/s or not the reality is that you'll only get good speeds in major population areas, have fibre optic available or are very close to an exchange, the same applies with 3/4G in my area I have 1 mast and supplier that can give me 3G and that doesn't deliver 24/7 by any means, and often drops connection after 20 mins.


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## prioryc

You can get free worldwide telephone calls using ADSL broadband services (using SIP protocol and VOIP phones) at far better call quality than Skype - SIP is normally blocked on Mobile network.
ADSL speeds very flakey in the countryside - also not too hot just outside towns.
There are several cable / fibre operators but their installations are restricted to within the larger towns.
You can get either 1 or 2 way satellite services - with 1 way you need a telephone line for the upload. Satellite is not very good for telephone calls because of the delays (if the service is not blocked) and can be expensive.
We run 3 sites with VPNs, VOIP telephone exchange & phones, locally hosted on-line shop and information web sites with a 4Mb/768K main line very close to a main town (had to fight Sapo on the provision of 768Kb upload as they insisted that 512Kb was maximum but a good router is quite happy) with 2M/512K and 768K/768K (yes that's all we can get) at our country houses!
So if you want to live in the country you will be somewhat limited in the speed you can get but if you have a line of sight to someone who has better speeds maybe you can install a microwave link and share their connection. We had this setup for 6 months over 3Km and it worked very well.


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## grandwazoo

Another small thought to take into account - when I run a speed test, the results from a server in Lisbon say 8Mb/s+; but from a server in Seattle the figure is less than 4 Mb/s. I suspect this is down to Portugal's basic infrastructure rather than the local service.


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## jerryceltner

Hi
I have read all the comments posted and a lot of them are so true. If you require download speeds of 7+mbps then the only way *was* living in a town. No chance living in the country or even a village.
I struggled with this problem for almost 3 years on ASDL and getting a download speed of only 1.71 mbps on a good day and 110 kbps upload and it was driving me crazy. I am talking about Sapo here which for me was a complete waste of time.
It used to be down regularly and the longest was 6 days so I bought a dongle as a back up.
I live in central Portugal.
I found my solution last December and the system was activated on December 29th 2011. I live on the outskirts of a small village and went Satellite. There are a few different plans that the company provide and I chose the 10 mbps down and 2 mbps up plan. Since then it has let me down once for 2 hours only and I am a happy bunny. The system can be installed anywhere even in the middle of a field. If you want any info then PM me and I will give you all the info on it. The only downside is that it takes a little longer to open a page approx 6 secs as it has to travel 40,000 km there and 40,000 km back but torrential rain did not affect it at all. I hope this helps.


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## klaas

jerryceltner said:


> Hi
> I have read all the comments posted and a lot of them are so true. If you require download speeds of 7+mbps then the only way was living in a town. No chance living in the country or even a village.
> I struggled with this problem for almost 3 years on ASDL and getting a download speed of only 1.71 mbps on a good day and 110 kbps upload and it was driving me crazy. I am talking about Sapo here which for me was a complete waste of time.
> It used to be down regularly and the longest was 6 days so I bought a dongle as a back up.
> I live in central Portugal.
> I found my solution last December and the system was activated on December 29th 2011. I live on the outskirts of a small village and went Satellite. There are a few different plans that the company provide and I chose the 10 mbps down and 2 mbps up plan. Since then it has let me down once for 2 hours only and I am a happy bunny. The system can be installed anywhere even in the middle of a field. If you want any info then PM me and I will give you all the info on it. The only downside is that it takes a little longer to open a page approx 6 secs as it has to travel 40,000 km there and 40,000 km back but torrential rain did not affect it at all. I hope this helps.


Wat is the name of the compagny and wat are the costs


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## casarosden

Hi 
We live on the edge of a quiet village but close to Tomar ( less than 10mins ) in Central Portugal. We have good wireless broadband internet reception set up in our property, in both the villa and Annexe.


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## Janina k

*Reply*



casarosden said:


> Hi
> We live on the edge of a quiet village but close to Tomar ( less than 10mins ) in Central Portugal. We have good wireless broadband internet reception set up in our property, in both the villa and Annexe.


Hello

You say you have a good connection. We asked the family who will be our neighbours and they are only a little over 100 meters away if we could test there speed. We asked before we signed to buy our house as the internet speed is important to my Fred. The speed using Speedtest was 1.75mbs and Fred is happy with that considering we will be about 5km outside of town. Fred has a small online business and he does all his uploads of a night when the upload speed is a bit better.

Krystyna


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## jerryceltner

This post has strayed away from the original question. Countryfolk asked for speeds of 7mbps+ in the outback so to speak. Sapo does not cut it at 1.75mbps or less. Plus Sapo is one of the worst internet providers I have ever and I mean ever been connected to with outages on a more than regular basis no matter what anyone tells you. The longest I have been off line with them was 6 days.
If you are happy with 1.75mbps then so be it but mine when I was with them sometimes came in at 300kbps...and on a good day 1.71mbps........snails pace. Our neighbour gets about 1mbps and is on the same tariff as we were.
The only logical answer to the original question is satellite which works brilliantly at 10mbps.
We have a friend that lives about 6/7km from us and she had engineers round last Monday as she was offline for 3 days with Sapo until I set her up with a dongle. Today she tried to send an email and it took her over half an hour when she was back online. What a joke of a service. Some of you may be lucky with little or no interruption but if that is the case then it's like finding a black pearl in an oyster.


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## casarosden

We know that Satellite internet is far better Jerry, but that's all well and good if you can afford it.....It's certainly not cheap to install and the monthly costs are higher. Some of us live on limited incomes and CANT afford it .... 
Our speed here with Sapo is better that You & Ken had even though we are not far apart. Most of the time we have no problems and it is fine for everyday normal use and I use the internet a lot !


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## canoeman

Just a note on speedtests if you have Sapo they will only accept their own sites results if you do like many have a problem service Teste de Velocidade Banda Larga each test has a reference number to quote.

I've been looking at satellite as an option because of our Sapo service, but still not that convinced, prices at £41 for dish/receiver, ridicules [email protected]£71, monthly fee £31 +a router and still requiring a telephone just can't justify it.


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## robc

Perhaps I am just lucky but we have Sapo installed for phone and broadband and the speeds are excellent. 


Rob


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## canoeman

Your lucky we struggle at around 45-65kmps, I player forget, youtube ugh, downloads hours


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## jerryceltner

Hi Canoeman,

The total cost for the 8gb service is 335 euro from TooWay direct + fitting.

This includes the router and delivery to Portugal.

It is cheaper to order in euros due to the exchange rates.

If you can find a cheap courier service then delivery to the UK is free which saves you 50 euro for delivery and you can buy a decent router here instead of paying 60 euro for one from TooWay.

I ran my system for 8 weeks before cancelling Sapo but keeping my PT landline.

PT without asking gave me a 5 euro reduction in rental fees per month, all national phone calls free for 12 months and a 15% discount on all mobile phone calls to my chosen provider.

Taking all the above into consideration you may find for the first year you are not far off breaking even for the tariff as you will not be paying Sapo 22 euro either.

The problem as with anyone is the original cost of the equipment and can one justify the cost.

For me it was money well spent every penny of it. I am a happy bunny now with one outage that lasted 2 hours and the company ringing me to tell me that I was back online and a 5 minute outage in a torrential thunderstorm. 

The system went active on the 29th December 2011. 

I updated my sat nav with a download of just under 800mb and it took under 9 minutes. It was doing 1.51mbps (90mb per min)

Jerry


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## canoeman

I've looked at TooWay Direct and get the package price about 100€ less than 335€, but 46€ pm + a landline or equivalent sorry but just too expensive, I'm just testing one of the Dongle options because a local mast has been upgraded and can get unlimited internet, so far being very stable and a massive improvement on Sapo speed, all calls to Portuguese landlines free 24/7 for 28€pm.

You'll find the PT 5€ reduction is a limited offer, when it expires you then have to pay if I remember 35-39€ ish for it to continue, unless you really pay pop with them and if your lucky they'll extend it.


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