# Tucson to San Miguel de Allende



## 1happykamper (Nov 5, 2012)

Hello everyone! I would appreciate any real life info with the respect to a choice I have when I drive my 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager, which I swapped for my sexy 1995 Jaguar XJ6  , from here in Tucson to my new home San Miguel. 

Route A takes me thru the port of Nogales on the 15 / 15D via Hermasillo down the coast to Mazatlan and than across to SMA via Guadalajara. 90% of which is toll road.. Good.

Route B takes me down several highways... I'm not sure how much is toll roads...entering Mexico via the port of Douglas and then due south via Chihuahua‎ And Torreon. 

I am interested in availability of gasoline, comfy safe hotels, smooth well laid out roads, border crossing choices and security check point generalities. 

Cheers!


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

1happykamper said:


> Hello everyone! I would appreciate any real life info with the respect to a choice I have when I drive my 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager, which I swapped for my sexy 1995 Jaguar XJ6  , from here in Tucson to my new home San Miguel.
> 
> Route A takes me thru the port of Nogales on the 15 / 15D via Hermasillo down the coast to Mazatlan and than across to SMA via Guadalajara. 90% of which is toll road.. Good.
> 
> ...


We have a number of friends that drive from CA to SMA. They stay away from the western routes and greatly prefer I10 to San Antonio & then I35 to Laredo. It is an easy days drive from Laredo to SMA, including immigration & car permiso paperwork in Nuevo Laredo.


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## 1happykamper (Nov 5, 2012)

conklinwh said:


> We have a number of friends that drive from CA to SMA. They stay away from the western routes and greatly prefer I10 to San Antonio & then I35 to Laredo. It is an easy days drive from Laredo to SMA, including immigration & car permiso paperwork in Nuevo Laredo.


Thanks for the repy..but your info was not regarding any of my choices. I see nothing inherently wrong with driving down the coast ...hence it was one of two choices I am contemplating.

Anyone else ...please??


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

1happykamper said:


> Hello everyone! I would appreciate any real life info with the respect to a choice I have when I drive my 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager, which I swapped for my sexy 1995 Jaguar XJ6  , from here in Tucson to my new home San Miguel.
> 
> Route A takes me thru the port of Nogales on the 15 / 15D via Hermasillo down the coast to Mazatlan and than across to SMA via Guadalajara. 90% of which is toll road.. Good.
> 
> ...


Hey HappyK, I have taken the route from Tijuana to Gdl, essentially your route A, many times and the route from Ciudad Juarez to Gdl, essentially your route B, also many times, but always by bus. 

Both involve excellent highways. I am only peripherally aware of the toll stops since I don't have to pay them on the bus, but my sense is both routes are mostly toll. There is lots of good desert scenery along both routes. 

There are no check points once you leave the border on either route when you are going south; going north is another story, lots of stops in that direction on both routes. Pemex stations are plentiful on both routes, although the northern desert is pretty sparsely populated on both routes.

Can't help with the other questions. The buses keep going.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Drive South - Preferred route form West Coast*

Plan A is a lot Safer one. 
El Chapo's Sinaloa Cartel is firmly in control all the way to and including Tepic, Nayarit (as of last year) and then on the way towards Guadalajara. He runs a tight like Military Organization. His men could loose their life if they Extort or Kidnap the local citizens or foreigners.

Plan B is in territory hotly contested by several different Cartels. States of Coahuila, Nuevo Leon across from Texas have had the most prolonged violent activity and quantity of dead during these Drug Cartel Wars and probably will continue that way. They're the big states directly south of Texas.

If you're coming from the East Coast of Midwest USA into Texas you don't have much choice except to cross there - and yes Laredo is probably the safest crossing.

Generally speaking gas is not much of a problem anymore (availablity) in Mexico since PEMEX the National Gas Supplier opened up their gas stations to include franchisees. Now there's an over abundance. In the north desert regions with fewer towns keep enough gas to make it another 100 miles or so an you should be O.K. even in the Sonoran Desert on remote back roads. Farther south heck you'll see a Pemex every 15-20 miles at least near towns - too many of them.

Expect: State Police road blocks, Military Police road blocks, and sometimes local Police road blocks. Sometimes impromptu - for a purpose. Remember they are there for your safety, always be polite and cooperartive and always keep you Visa and car papers readily handy.

Drive only in the day. Make border crossing only in the day and don't daly. Nogales and most border cities are hotly contested to push product across to the USA side, and full of desperate Latin American's and others trying to survive and get money any way they can to pay a coyote to get across the border.

Plan A: Food - (talking about taking only the Toll Road South)
Hermosillo you have to stay on the main drag through town after getting off the toll road. Many choices there, even American fast food variety, Mall on your left coming into town with restaurants, fast food.

If you're in a rush many of the suggestions below can be done to speed up the time at the gas stops. Since there's limited amount of daylight in the winter.

1.) Try to combine them with a food stop

2.) Have one person get the gas, while the other goes and orders the food for both. That way
you can limit your noon day stop to only half hour instead of an hour.


Guaymas has some of the best shrimp in the world and pretty cheap. Worth a stop. Take detour off of Hwy 15 into town. 

Los Mochis: has on both north/southbound side's Pemex's with plasable cafeteria style dish up food that's safe to eat. 

Some of the bigger Pemex Stations along the Toll Roads in the middle of no where are Truck Stops too and more and more like in the USA they have bigger convenience stores, with fresh sandwiches, tortas, tomales, etc. and microwaves to heat them up if desired. Yogurt, aguas frescas, refrescos, and like toiletries, some common over the counter drugs like aspirin, etc.

Mazatlan. Just too many food choices, could easily stay there a month. Great Seafood, but all kinds of food here.

Tepic: Get off the Perfiferico and take the main Hwy 15 through town for all the fast food, and restaurants - but no good place to park if you're towing something - if so stay on Periferico.

Guadalajara: Like Maz. but almost infinitely bigger.

From there to Queretaro many Pemex's with big convenience stores and some fast food attached to them.

Pretty easy?


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

1happykamper said:


> Thanks for the repy..but your info was not regarding any of my choices. I see nothing inherently wrong with driving down the coast ...hence it was one of two choices I am contemplating.
> 
> Anyone else ...please??


Sorry about that, let's just say that people we know that drive to SMA often prefer plan C which makes many of your other questions mute. Probably have a different answer if you were going to GDL but that 4 hours northwest of SMA.


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## smaoldtimer (Jan 12, 2013)

[Excised] Just in case you are not aware of the current situation on the routes you have chosen, you need to take extreme caution if you choose to drive down to SMA...especially by yourself!
Over the years I have traveled between Tucson and SMA about 40 times and I no longer drive (I can't with all good consciousness recommend driving into Mexico from anywhere any longer). The only safe way is to fly. You are taking chances if you drive. It's not so much the entire drive (and I'm talking about the route from Nuevo Laredo to San Miguel) as it is the first hundred miles or so which are the most dangerous. Once beyond Saltillo the going is not too risky. All entry ports into Mexico are drug routes into the states and if you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time you will regret it. It's not worth taking a chance on ANY other route, believe me! You might luck out, but why put yourself in harm's way?
Those expat residents of SMA who still drive, prefer to go and come from SMA by the direct southern route from San Antonio through NL...if you must. Also, the tolls are ridiculously expensive and for one person, it's not that much more expensive to fly than drive.
The least expensive route is to take I-10 to San Antonio. Gas is cheaper than in Mexico and so are the motels for the most part. 
Also, do you understand that you must put a cash deposit on your vehicle when entering Mexico? Good luck ever seeing that again!
Your best bet is to fly down, get used to living in SMA for awhile and then purchase a Mexican plated vehicle. There are many advantages to this method! You really don't need a vehicle in San Miguel anyway. If you want to leave town, believe me, you will have friends who can drive you anywhere you feel the need to visit, or you can take the bus. Taxis are cheap in town and walking is even better!
I could go on for volumes, [Excised] Feel free to reply if you want more sage advice before you make your trip.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Poor Advice*

The only thing I can say about his last post that is even partially true..... is that the first 100 miles into Mexico is the most risk. But that's only partially right when you consider the large amount of Federal Police, State Police, Local Police and Federal Troops on those Main Highways to ensure your safety. Travel during the day in those areas and don't daly, do get through that quickly.

And, absolutely the ONLY route we won't ever consider taking is from San Antonio south to Monterrey. It's just too long, lonely of a stretch that's been too prone in the past to even "road blocks" by one Cartel stopping all cars looking for members of other Cartels to bring over to the side of the road and exterminate.

Thousands take the Laredo entrance west to Saltillo and then South with no problem. Further thousands take the Nogales > Guadalajara route, and that's just American's, Canadians. Add in all the Mexicano's returning for vacations and Holidays. The above information in the previous post is just *not* true. 

You won't be seeing "El Chapo's boys if you travel in the daytime. Why do I feel, I can say that?
We have real good friends who as a couple drove the back roads in his stronghold in the Sierras all the way to just above Mazatlan. The Sinaloa Cartel only move goods in the night, or well disguised. I mean this couple went to all the little historic towns in the Sierras all the way to Culican (The Sinaloa Cartel Capital) and then south last year. Not once, but twice! The last time showing their friend from the Canary Islands the whole route. That's the back woods, Sonora, Sinaloa, so the main Toll Road all the way down will be secure for you - just don't drive at night.

We love our indedepence and having our car in Mexico.

As long as you're going to have to expend $180+ in Tolls on your trip and over $200.00 in gas you might as well explore, have fun in wonderful places along the way, that might be quite a while before you return to that corner of Mexico? Besides Bahia San Carlos, you might want to detour east from Navajoa to Alamos, Sonora. It's like 30 minutes east of Carr. 15 is all. It's been dolled up as last year a major Soap Opera filmed from there for months at a time. It's the real deal as far a Mexican Gold Rush towns is concerned, great history and the birth place of the World Famous Mexican Actress - Maria Felix, which I hear now her house has been fixed up as a B & B. Then there's Tequila just before Guadalajara, which also was used in a famous Mexican Soap Opera a few years ago. Great Factory tours. It's just a few miles off the Carr. 15. In Guadalajara if you're thinking about fixing up a rental house or buying one in SMA, do stop in at Tonala, which is due East of Guadalajara up a hill on Carr 15 on the way towards SMA. It's like 12-15 blocks square of non stop Crafts Factories and Vendors. Don't go Tue, Thur, as you can't drive it's so packed as they turn the main drag into a Tiangis. At least I think it's those days? They now have several small hotels there now for you to park and stay over night, ATM's and cute little restaurants. You have a bigger vehicle - so you will have space? to put some things in on the way to SMA? Best prices here, and most crafts of all of Mexico. Be sure to see Mazatlan at least for a few days on the way down, it definitely is "The Pearl of the Pacific". See all of it, downtown/oldtown, the Malecon, Zona Dorada, and the new part all the way out to Bruja Beach.

Great web site for checking out hotels in Mexico at deep discounts is: Despegar.com - Hoteles, vuelos, paquetes, autos y mucho más!
There's Best Western Hotels which are pretty decent in Bahia San Carlos, right across from the beach, and in Navajoa, and now a new Mexican chain in big yellow colored buildings called "Zar", they're like 3 star but decent business hotels in the $400-800.00 pesos range. In days of old it could be a hassle without good planning, but today you can just lollygag around enjoying yourself and still find decent hotels to stay in down the line. 

Like I've said before It's an easy drive to stop at Bahia San Carlos/ Guaymas the first night on the ocean. I'ts only about 350 miles from Tucson. Good to plan a short distance day, this first day as you have Aduana to navigate through and getting your paper's checked out for your car. This can take some time, sometimes less.

Second night is a real trek when including all the stops for Toll Booths to get to Mazatlan. 500 mile for the day. Need to take off by no later that 8:30 AM to get to Mazatlan by dark.

Next night in Guadalajara as it's about 350-400 miles to Guadalajara from Mazatlan.

Toll Booths figures from the border to Guadalajara about $150.00 USD.

Next night in SMA.

Here's some of our favorite hotels at the above stops and why.

Bahia San Carlos: Hotel Fiesta Real Carretera A. San Carlos Km 8.5 Ph in Mex (622)226-1314
Right on the Ocean in an older catelivered 4 story cute hotel. More expensive now during season over $1000.00 pesos as it's now owned by a ****** Group from Tucson. They're trying to make it a subburb of Tucson. Tucson Yacht club meets here around twice a year for parties.

Across the street, .25 miles further west and 25% cheaper usually is the Best Western. Comfort-able with pool, restaurant, just walk across the street for the views. We love to watch the spectacular sun ups at Bahia San Carlos.

A few miles down the road in Guaymas. We stay here when we're making time and saving bucks. A very good little business hotel called "Hotel del Sol" and "Suite's del Sol", same owner
www.suitesdelsol.com.mx (622) 221-2900 and 2903. The Hotel is a little fancier, better insulated for the winter time, on the main drag ( Calzada Agustin Gareia Lopez No.. 995 ) and the Suites is bigger, more plain and draftier, just off the main drag coming into town by Burger Hut. Blvd. Benito Juarez Norte, No. 2-A.

Next stop Mazatlan. Our all time favorite Hotel Marley and their sister down the block Suite Lindamar. Ave. Playa Gaviotas No. 222 & 226 Tel: (669) 913-5533). We've been staying here for over 25 years. What we like about it? It's small, right on the Ocean in a great location, quite, safe, nice pool away from the ocean a two story building blocks the wind off the ocean but a 2 block fun walk to all the action of Zona Dorada. Good price for high season priced around $85.00 USD for a 650 sq. ft. 1 bedroom suite right on the Ocean. Both Oscar and Carmen speak excellent English and are every helpful to you on directions, etc. They are used to long time guests. Has safe off street parking with guard all through the night. I mean you'll wish (and you should spend a week here on the way down). You can walk a block to Hotel Flores right on the sand if you wish for the night life, over 10-15 restaurants in Zona Dorado to visit within 3-4 blocks walking distance, plus bars, night life and Playa Mazatlan Hotel for the restaurants buffet and night life. In the winter time it's mostly Canadian (follow the Canadians around as they always know the best deals) and ******'s mainly from San Diego, who often come for a month or several months You probably will have to reserve ahead to even get a room. Ask Carmen where Panama Jack's is in the Zona Dorada, for one of the most unusual and inventive (menus wise) coffee shops in North America. They have an excellent bakery too. We love to pick up pastry after dinner to take to our room for breakfast the next day , as it has a full on kitchen there. Stop at Sorianna Supermercado on the way in for all your snacks, juices, mile, coffee, fruit etc. and not have to leave the beach excepting for a main meal. This place has, is and will continue to be a great find! You can pay twice as much, stand in lines with ton's of tourists and the noise or go here.

Also in Mazatlan on the old Malecon downtown; Hotels Freeman, with it's pool on the very top level (24th floor) with spectacular views, and a bar on the floor right below it, and the original old Hotel Siesta that's been refurbished and "The Melville" where you can get a weekly, monthly rate.


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## 1happykamper (Nov 5, 2012)

smaoldtimer said:


> [Excised] ?..You are taking chances if you drive. It's not so much the entire drive (and I'm talking about the route from Nuevo Laredo to San Miguel) as it is the first hundred miles or so which are the most dangerous. Once beyond Saltillo the going is not too risky. All entry ports into Mexico are drug routes into the states and if you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time you will regret it. It's not worth taking a chance on ANY other route, believe me! You might luck out, but why put yourself in harm's way?
> 
> ....
> Snip.....
> Also, do you understand that you must put a cash deposit on your vehicle when entering Mexico? Good luck ever seeing that again [Excised] Feel free to reply if you want more sage advice before you make your.



I may be "green" on those particular roots however I have never lived my life in fear and manage the risks accordingly. I believe I have been well armed with the FACTS about travelling through Mexico and will look forward to my travels in Mexico.

I AM curious about your FACTS when you wrote "... Believe me".,please enlighten me on what I should believe from you're personal experiences. Thanks.

With respect to your negative comment about getting my vehicle deposit back... Yes I am aware of such a deposit and have no issues with the mutual respect that is ancipipated with such a transaction. 

Do you currently live in Bisbee or SMA?


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## smaoldtimer (Jan 12, 2013)

*Experience*

I'm with you! I do not and never have lived my life in fear.
However, I prefer to learn from other's mistakes, not my own bullheadedness.
Personal experiences? My girlfriend took a bus south from Nogales (first and last time) the bus was stopped by several banditos with guns who ordered everyone off, attempted to rape several of the women and molested several others (my girlfriend included). They took all valuables and left. 
That's just one story, I could curdle your milk with a number of others.
I am reminded of a story I once heard: Two women were going to church one Sunday morning and parked in the church parking lot. They left their purses and didn't bother to lock the doors thinking "it's a church parking lot, no one will steal from a car in a church parking lot, right"?
When they returned after the service, their purses were both gone! They rushed back into the church to tell the minister of their loss. "We though God would protect our belongings because we were in a church parking lot"! He told them "Of course God will protect you! But always remember, God gave you common sense too! It's not common sense to leave valuables in an unlocked car no matter where it is"!
Like I said in the earlier post, why push your luck. You've been warned by someone with experience..go to some of the Yahoo forums for San Miguel such as the cool list. There are several others. Read the archived posts regarding travel between the border and SMA. If that doesn't work, you're just not paying attention! 
And...last but not least! You think you're going to get mutual respect from the Mexican authorities? You might, but then again, there are plenty of Mexican authorities who woke up on the wrong side of the bed the very morning you're going to show up at their window. People are people and Mexicans are wonderful folks...one of the main reasons to live in Mexico in fact...but, as you might have experienced yourself, government employees in any country are always trying to justify their jobs and the pay they receive for doing it. Sometimes you are "expected" to make up the difference between what the gov't pays them and what they need to exist! Mexico is no exception...no, they are the rule. Some are excellent some are not.
I wish you luck finding the respectful ones...because they do exist. Ever hear of Russian roulette? Put 3 or 4 rounds in a 6 shot revolver and now you're talking the odds of "Mexican roulette" which is what you'll be playing on the way to SMA on the highways.
Let me ask you...have you ever driven throughout Mexico or is this your first "adventure"? Male or female?
Remember, when a Mexican tells you, come back tomorrow, or Tuesday, or Friday or at 2PM or ANY appointed time...it's just another word for mañana. And mañana doesn't mean tomorrow...it just means "NOT TODAY"! Remember that, if nothing else! When a Mexican tells you "don't worry" start worrying!
You've got a lot to learn about your new home!
I live in both SMA and Bisbee. I lived full time in SMA for over 20 years.
¡Buena suerte mi amigo(a)!


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

1HappyKamper, expats in Mexico tend to be the glass half full or the glass half empty.
This is a half empty view.
I don't minimize the dangers of driving anywhere and that certainly includes Mexico.
I do try to minimize my stops within the 1st 100 mi of the border and have a set of pretty clean and reasonably secure stopping points for gas & banos.
This also reason why a lot of people swing east to Laredo as a straight 1 day shot but I know you don't want to hear that.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Living in the WAY past*

On your trip south, buy a TelMex $100 peso phone card. 

When you're doing your car papers things are not as stated in previous post or any of the Federal Offices along the border. There's announcements all over the Govt. Offices listing a toll free number to call in Mexico City to complain if you feel anyone is ripping you off are trying to get "mordida" out of you. They're serious and anyone working know's they'll be fired straight away if they try. I think someone is having the melancholy blues and blowing smoke your way.


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## 1happykamper (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks to all who supplied VERY useful and detailed information. I am very grateful.

I will be using Plan A route -Nogales Truck route port -Hermosillo - Mazatlan - Guadalajara -San Miguel.

I am departing Tucson early SUNDAY morning, from what i have read thats a "good" day to travel through the border. This will get me to MZT on Monday - before dark.

QUESTION: I only have about 150 pesos with me right now. When I cross the border I will need loads of cash for duties on my less than $3,000 household goods, car import temp. permit, gas, meals and so on. It may be as much as $700 in all. If i recall the ATM's at certain banks have a $500 per day limit. Is there a real bank at the same place I have to pay all the fees and duties? Will they accept my debit card to pay for duties and car fee. I am getting the car insurance via AAA before I leave -underwritten by GNP.

cheers.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Payment of Duties & Fees*

Anything to do with the car import fees, and Visa Fees, etc. to the Federal Government can be paid by Credit Card - and I believe they demand payment this way. Usually at the same window there at Aduana just south of Nogales.

Only in the major cities like Hermosillo and rest you outlined in your previous post where you'll be going will you be able to pay for meals at more upscale and chain restaurants and hotel with a credit card. Now, a lot of Pemex are set up to accept credit card too. Rest is all cash. Near the border $USD will do, farther south they won't even accept $USD at Toll Stations so yo have to go to an ATM and get cash. Yes depending on the bank $4000 - $5000 pesos per day. I find HSBC charges less International Transactions/ ATM Fees. You get more pesos for your buck at ATM's. Read previous posts on other subject on getting money in Mexico, as I believe a few banks don't charge a fee back in USA for you making those transactions?

Tip; we usually pay for Gas with Cash Pesos, Why? Well Gas Stations are where funny exchanges can happen to your detriment. Some one, who knows who attendant, disappears with your card for 15 minutes inside the building some where and eventually comes back with the Credit Card Voucher for you to sign. Did he or the Cashier make a carbon copy of your Credit Card to sell to someone? Be careful at all times with your credit card. We never make a charge without seeing the whole transaction taking place immediately before our eyes, to make sure no copying being done. We once had a transaction at a VIP's Coffee Shop (owned by Walymart) in Mazatlan, where they went in the back (before our new policy) made a copy and the Manager called his Manager buddy at Walymart in Cde. Obregon (300+ miles north) and put a $3,300.00 USD equivalent purchase on my AMEX Card. Luckily we were headed back to California got, my statement and called and had that charge reversed immediately.

After you major Car/Visa Fees are paid you'll probably only need $2000.00 pesos for gas/tolls/food per day. Hotel you can pay on credit card.


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## 1happykamper (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks for the additional help cuylers!!!






cuylers5746 said:


> Anything to do with the car import fees, and Visa Fees, etc. to the Federal Government can be paid by Credit Card - and I believe they demand payment this way. Usually at the same window there at Aduana just south of Nogales.
> 
> Only in the major cities like Hermosillo and rest you outlined in your previous post where you'll be going will you be able to pay for meals at more upscale and chain restaurants and hotel with a credit card. Now, a lot of Pemex are set up to accept credit card too. Rest is all cash. Near the border $USD will do, farther south they won't even accept $USD at Toll Stations so yo have to go to an ATM and get cash. Yes depending on the bank $4000 - $5000 pesos per day. I find HSBC charges less International Transactions/ ATM Fees. You get more pesos for your buck at ATM's. Read previous posts on other subject on getting money in Mexico, as I believe a few banks don't charge a fee back in USA for you making those transactions?
> 
> ...


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Don´t drive at night, it´s much safer


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## Sherkotoee (Apr 24, 2013)

Hello Everyone,


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## Sherkotoee (Apr 24, 2013)

last year I visited San Miguel de allende... It's a beautiful city for touring... I enjoyed my full trip of this city... San Miguel de Allende is a city and municipality located in the far eastern part of the state of Guanajuato in central Mexico... It is 274 km from Mexico City and 97 km from the state capital of Guanajuato... Historically, the town is important as being the birthplace of Ignacio Allende, whose surname was added to the town’s name in 1826, as well as the first municipality declared independent of Spanish rule by the nascent insurgent army during the Mexican War of Independence.


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