# What Kind Of Expat Are You?



## Waterdog

Having followed debates on this & other forums I have arrived at the conclusion that there are 2 distinct classes of expat in Portugal. The delineation seems to be The Algarvian verses The Rest

The Algarvian expat primarily seeks the sun but would also rather like to retain their former country’s customs, attitudes, life-style & language. Additionally, some hope to augment their income with employment within the tourist industry.

Expats in the other parts of Portugal appear to wish to immerse themselves in all things Portuguese, learn the language, integrate & forget The Old Country. 

No doubt loads of generalisation but is this important? 

Well yes, because having identified your motivations, you would probably be happiest joining like-minded people.

A final observation; whilst The Rest appear to be interested in Algarvian issues, those in The Algarve appear to have only limited interest in issues outside their area.

Am I right? Any thoughts?


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## notlongnow

I would disagree because I am in the Algarve and yet:

- We go out of our way to not get too familiar with the "Little Britain" crowd.

- We speak faltering Portuguese, but at least we speak it.

- We eat Portuguese style as much as we eat English style.

- Correio de Manha is on my favourites as well as BBC News.


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## siobhanwf

I also disagree. Although we live in the Silver Coast area we have 6 couples, all close and long time friends who live, spread across the Algarve.
They meet up once in a while but certainly don't live in each others pockets.
At least either the husband or wife speaks more than passable Portuguese. In the case of two almost fluently.
Whenever we meet up it is generally for Portuguese nosh.
They all watch Portuguese as well as UK Tv.

On the Silver Coast I know several couples who will not even attempt to speak Portuguese.
Some socialise only within the same group all the time.
We very seldom eat other than Portuguese food when outside the home.

So Waterdog I fear that you have generalised.


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## canoeman

I disagree as well, but I think your premise is totally incorrect, in that because of the holiday nature of the Algarve then it will naturally attract a lot of people who's reason for "a place in the sun" whether it be as an Expat or a visitor is very different to the "real" Expat.


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## Waterdog

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, as I said, I generalise but reading your responses, I rather feel that this is a case of the exceptions proving the rule.

Their life style, dress & sun tan makes it is reasonably easy to differentiate between the holidaymaker & the longer stay visitor

Canoeman, what makes the 'real' expat – residency, property ownership, length of stay, fluency in Portuguese, a conviction that life in the new home is much better than in The Old Country?

Interesting that to date the majority of the responses are from The Rest rather than the Algarvian expats but, as I only posted yesterday evening, it is early days.

QED?


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## canoeman

I used the "real" to differentiate between, those who for want of a better description have purely holiday homes anywhere in Portugal to those who have emigrated to anywhere in Portugal.
I don't think that any of these "residency, property ownership, length of stay, fluency in Portuguese, a conviction that life in the new home is much better than in The Old Country?" makes a "real" expat, might well be factors, it's more about wanting a new and better life, in the Algarve or elsewhere in Portugal.


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## MaidenScotland

Waterdog you seem to be thinking the same as some of the Spanish crowd.. if you live on the coast you don't speak the language and don't move far from the bar.. which of course is utter tosh and snobbery on the part of the person who lives inland and immerses themselves in everything native and then spends most of their time on an English speaking forum telling us how wonderful it is to be living the native life.

People are people all over the world. I am from a tiny community in Scotland (125) which the majority is now English, they tend to mix with each other and make no effort to speak to Gaelic. Same scenario as every country just the place and language differ.


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## Waterdog

MaidenScotland. I am not so much 'thinking' as asking. Think I follow your argument but is the Spanish crowd, same as the Algarve Set?

I agree that there is a load of snobbery associated with some expats, who having turned their back on The Old Country, seek to denigrate it and their fellow former countrymen, who have not chosen to escape but whose taxes in many cases support the expats lifestyle (winter heating allowance, pensions etc.).

I also detect another form of snobbery from expats who choose to endorse everything in their new country & look down on those who wish to remain within their old ways.

A thought; looking at the word, an expatriate, is somebody who has left so for those that have arrived possibly they should be identified as an ‘inpatriate’?

By these definitions I suggest that many Algarvians/Costas are expats whereas The Rest are inpats.

The aim of this thread was to suggest that expats in The Algarve (& possibly the Costas) are different to The Rest & most people are happiest amongst their own kind.

I accept in full that I generalise (most debates do).

What am I, not sure?


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## MaidenScotland

Here in Cairo no one asks if you can speak Arabic many of us do but we have clubs all over the city for expats so that we can get away from the Arab way of life. 

I moved to Corby in Northants as a child as did many Scots.. a town in the middle of England where you can buy all things Scottish, go to a Highland gathering, join a Grampians club. have Scottish country dancing lessons (I can have these here in Cairo),

My husband is from Southall .. a town that has been taken over by Asians who sell their own home comforts.


Moving to a new country is daunting for most people but that doesn't stop them. If you are scared, nervous and can see a bit of the home country in your new abode then it is natural to gravitate towards it.. it's survival.


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## MaidenScotland

Why should there be labels?


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## Waterdog

MaidenScotland I endorse all of your sentiments but I try to recognise the world for what it is.

Labels? I come back to my central thrust - most people are happiest with their own kind but to do this you need to examine your values to know who you are & then identify where you will be most likely to find like minded people.

Didn't expect an Arabic speaker to join this debate.

Woof xx xx


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## MaidenScotland

It's a small world... 

I actually have a house in Spain and I am trying so very hard to learn Spanish but in all honesty it is just not sinking in.. I can do quizzes on my c.d and get 100% correct each time, but saying something other than Hola is out of the question.. my mind just goes blank. I live inland in a town house not some isolated villa in town that doesn't speak English and I know I will struggle if I don't master the languag but you know when I need help I call on my English daughter who speaks Spanish lol


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## MaidenScotland

As an expat I can honestly say that I have often socialised with people that I would not dream of even talking to in the UK. Why? There are times I feel I must have familiar culture, language even if I do not agree with their views or way of life I just think.. better the devil you know and I know if I say.. did you get a blue peter badge for doing that? I don't have to explain the joke..


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## wink

Waterdog said:


> I agree that there is a load of snobbery associated with some expats, who having turned their back on The Old Country, seek to denigrate it and their fellow former countrymen, who have not chosen to escape but whose taxes in many cases support the expats lifestyle (winter heating allowance, pensions etc.).


This statement is surely wrong, the expats who receive winter heating allowance, pensions etc., would only do so if they had contributed to the tax and social security systems when they lived and worked in their country of origin.

Incidentally, I worked for many years in the UK and although I paid UK tax & insurance, I claim nothing, so your government and tax payers contribute nothing to my lifestyle.


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## MaidenScotland

wink said:


> This statement is surely wrong, the expats who receive winter heating allowance, pensions etc., would only do so if they had contributed to the tax and social security systems when they lived and worked in their country of origin.
> 
> Incidentally, I worked for many years in the UK and although I paid UK tax & insurance, I claim nothing, so your government and tax payers contribute nothing to my lifestyle.




Actually no.. there are many people who have never worked a day in their lives but still receive heating allowance, there is a debate going on to cut this off for people who are living overseas but then the social security system in the UK is open to abuse and that in itself is another thread.


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## canoeman

wink said:


> Incidentally, I worked for many years in the UK and although I paid UK tax & insurance, I claim nothing, so your government and tax payers contribute nothing to my lifestyle.


Although you would be entitled to a UK Pension for years you contributed.


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## siobhanwf

There are more costal to Portugal than the Algarve. I live only 30 Kim's inland from the Atlantic coast in an area called the Silver Coast. 
Mingling with the familiar is not something just peculiar to the Algarve but is done the world over. 
I would be surprised if there is any place without a Scottish society or and Irish society.


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## Waterdog

True - but as I am sure you are aware there has never been a pension pot as such. Put simply, for the UK today's national insurance contributors fund today's pension entitlement.


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## Waterdog

*Siobhanwf

Be advised it is happening again. I did not post the following attributed to me. *

Why should living on the coast make you an expat whereas if you live in land your an inpat?

Many people would love to live on a coast.. but in reality they can't afford to.

Maybe that is the real reason that inlanders look down on coasters.. they know they have more money

*For those not in the know - last year my account was hacked & this resulted in me being "credited" with comments/actions not from 'my pen'. I can drop my self in it without the help of others. There again although not my sentiments, they do make a point '*


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## MaidenScotland

Waterdog said:


> *Siobhanwf
> 
> Be advised it is happening again. I did not post the following attributed to me. *
> 
> Why should living on the coast make you an expat whereas if you live in land your an inpat?
> 
> Many people would love to live on a coast.. but in reality they can't afford to.
> 
> Maybe that is the real reason that inlanders look down on coasters.. they know they have more money
> 
> *For those not in the know - last year my account was hacked & this resulted in me being "credited" with comments/actions not from 'my pen'. I can drop my self in it without the help of others. There again although not my sentiments, they do make a point '*




ahh sorry that was me... I seem to have clicked on the edit rather than the answer tab.

I will remove it now

maiden


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## MaidenScotland

Waterdog said:


> MaidenScotland. I am not so much 'thinking' as asking. Think I follow your argument but is the Spanish crowd, same as the Algarve Set?
> 
> I agree that there is a load of snobbery associated with some expats, who having turned their back on The Old Country, seek to denigrate it and their fellow former countrymen, who have not chosen to escape but whose taxes in many cases support the expats lifestyle (winter heating allowance, pensions etc.).
> 
> I also detect another form of snobbery from expats who choose to endorse everything in their new country & look down on those who wish to remain within their old ways.
> 
> A thought; looking at the word, an expatriate, is somebody who has left so for those that have arrived possibly they should be identified as an ‘inpatriate’?
> 
> By these definitions I suggest that many Algarvians/Costas are expats whereas The Rest are inpats.
> 
> The aim of this thread was to suggest that expats in The Algarve (& possibly the Costas) are different to The Rest & most people are happiest amongst their own kind.
> 
> I accept in full that I generalise (most debates do).
> 
> What am I, not sure?





Why should living on the coast make you an expat whereas if you live in land your an inpat?

Many people would love to live on a coast.. but in reality they can't afford to.

Maybe that is the real reason that inlanders look down on coasters.. they know they have more money


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## siobhanwf

MaidenScotland said:


> ahh sorry that was me... I seem to have clicked on the edit rather than the answer tab.
> 
> I will remove it now
> 
> maiden


Mistake easily made Maidenscotland. Thanks for correcting 

Apologies waterdog


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## Waterdog

MaidenScotland No problem but after last years saga, I am sure you will appreciate that I am a bit twitchie


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## Waterdog

Maiden surprised you have a problem with Spanish after mastering Arabic. I struggled with Pharisee & only got the numbers hacked - and that was to stop being ripped off.


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## MaidenScotland

Waterdog said:


> Maiden surprised you have a problem with Spanish after mastering Arabic. I struggled with Pharisee & only got the numbers hacked - and that was to stop being ripped off.




I am older.. I do not hear Spanish spoken.. I am tired and out of the way of learning.


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## siobhanwf

MaidenScotland said:


> I am older.. I do not hear Spanish spoken.. I am tired and out of the way of learning.


When you are hearing a language spoken every day it is much easier to tune into it.

Several years ago I worked for a Japanese company and hearing the sounds every day made it easier to follow on with what I had learned in evening classes. Mostly gone now as I have not had the opportunity to speak it for many years


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## Waterdog

We appear to be drifting off the topic.

I pose the question, apart from notlongnow, does anybody else in The Algarve have an opinion on this subject, or are they all stuck in a traffic jam on the N125?


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## canoeman

No there queuing to pay their tolls


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## Surfin USA

Hi All

Been back home for the holidays (boy was it cold) but now back in cloudy old Britain.

Waterdog, an interesting thread.

I think generalisation could undermine your argument but following the A22 saga I would agree that The Rest have a near obsessive interest in the affairs in The Algarve that is not reciprocated.

As I remind myself each time I round Cape St Vincent, The Algarve is certainly a wonderful climate to winter in, from experience, the West Coast winter is something else!

Compared with the rest of Portugal (excluding the cities) The Algarve is expensive so MaidenScotland may have a point that envy is part of the issue.

Many of the folk in The Algarve have a pad in Portugal are resident in Portugal, speak the language but still have a place in the old country. They often winter in The Algarve but because it is too hot, summer in the UK & let out their Portuguese place. If they get it right they can make their Portuguese property a self-financing venture. So are they expats?

All rather confusing!


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## lagosguy

I can see what you are driving at, Waterdog; but I don't think it's that complicated. 

As one who has frequently made the point (and been challenged on it) that the Algarve is fundamentally different from other Portuguese regions by virtue of its almost complete reliance on tourism for its economic well-being, coupled with the fact that it is probably the only part of Portugal where, for a significant part of the year, Portuguese nationals are outnumbered by visitors of many different nationalities, I would find it surprising if those that lived there (Portuguese and non-Portuguese alike) didn't have an outlook on life that differed from elsewhere.

The sheer number of non-Portuguese who live full or part time on the Algarve, coupled with the need for any native Algarvian who wants to work in the tourist industry (and what other industry is there to work in?) to speak English and maybe German and French too, means that the Portugueseness (sorry but I couldn't think of another word) of the Algarve will inevitably be diluted with a heavy dose of internationalism. From my perspective that made the Algarve a "place in the sun" that I would want to spend time in, because I am not somebody who would want to live in rural Portugal and try and integrate into the local populace. I don't apolgise for that and it doesn't incline me to look up to or down at those who have chosen a more "ethnic" (again excuse the word but it's getting late) lifestyle. 

So, to return to your original premise, anybody wanting to move to Portugal, full or part time would be better advised to look at the various regions and what each one has to offer and decide which appeals to them most. Trying to analyse why different people have chosen to live in different areas is adding an unnecessary layer of complexity to what is a fairly straightforward process.

That said, in some of the discussion on these sites, particularly on the A22 tolls, I have sensed the same kind of vibe that I get in discussions with people from the Midlands and north of England, who appear to hate London and everything about it yet have no objection to London's making a disproportionate contribution to the UK national cake and subsidising their lifestyles.


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## robc

An interesting read which has provoked much content, so I shall add my musings. (As we move to inland Silver Coast in April)

I am not an expat, inpat, outpat underpat, overpat or cowpat. I have never, and never will respond to anyone who labels me, I am who I am, I live in my way, without interference with or from others.

End of.

Rob


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## Waterdog

Lagosguy – The reason I initiated this thread was in response to a number of pleas on this & other forums, along the lines, *“I plan to come to Portugal but where would I be happiest.”*

Having perused various forums I observed that there appeared to be 2 distinct types of expat in Portugal; loosely, The Algarve type & the Rest. I admit that this is an over generalisation but think this definition broadly holds true.

I also have detected an overt interest in Algarve issues by those living in outside the region & some antithesis towards expats in the Algarve.

Your excellent post has provided the definitive answer that could help many to firm up their thinking.

Thank you


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## siobhanwf

The truth of the matter to anyone wanting to move to Portugal, either full or part time is that they would be well advised to look at the various regions and what each one has to offer and decide which suits their needs most.
Our two main reason for choosing where we moved to was access to the silver coast beaches if we wanted them and half way between the two main hospitals with a renal transplant unit. Other important considerations were we found a house we liked between caldas da Rainha and Rio Maior, two working towns ( and we had spent time looking in the Algarve and actually seriously considered a house in Estoi ) 
And please don't laugh.... One that would take our giant 8' Christmas tree. Plenty od storage and a manageable sized garden. 
And I forgt access to Lisbon Airport 80kms and ease of access to the A1 to Santander.


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## Surfin USA

Siobhian I think latest post was exactly what Waterdog was trying to achieve. Possibly the thread should read, "Why did you move to Portugal?"

When in the UK I am frequently asked, "Why do you keep returning to Portugal/The Algarve?" 

In the future I will direct them to the expat forum & this thread, which I am sure will help them.

Who knows they may even join.


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## Surfin USA

Nice one Siobhan.


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## siobhanwf

Oh and by the way.
I am not an "expat" I am me. Siobhan, Irish by birth, living in Portugal by choice


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## Waterdog

Thanks surfin, I agree, "Why did you come to Portugal?" would probably have been a better thread title but it would not have highlighted the different types of expats in Portugal.


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## Surfin USA

Sorry Siobhan no offence intended but I regret labelling is a trait common in us Southern Boys.


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## siobhanwf

Surfin USA said:


> Sorry Siobhan no offence intended but I regret labelling is a trait common in us Southern Boys.


Ahhh surfin no offence taken 
I spent 12 years of my life as aircrew, there isn't a continent I haven't visited.
Seen some of the best sights the world has to offer, and some of the worst! But I still hate labels!


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## Surfin USA

Really, military or civilian? We have something in common, as I spent time flying B52 (H)s out of Barksdale, Louisiana but that was a long long time ago, 'though the Buff still soldiers on.


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## siobhanwf

Surfin USA said:


> Really, military or civilian? We have something in common, as I spent time flying B52 (H)s out of Barksdale, Louisiana but that was a long long time ago, 'though the Buff still soldiers on.


Civilian


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## wink

MaidenScotland said:


> Actually no.. there are many people who have never worked a day in their lives but still receive heating allowance, there is a debate going on to cut this off for people who are living overseas but then the social security system in the UK is open to abuse and that in itself is another thread.


I hardly think that a person who, having reached the age of sixty (the age I believe qualifies a UK citizen to receive a heating allowance) and having never worked a day in their lives, (which I also consider improbable) is likely to be living in Portugal as an expat.


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## jojo

robc said:


> An interesting read which has provoked much content, so I shall add my musings. (As we move to inland Silver Coast in April)
> 
> I am not an expat, inpat, outpat underpat, overpat or cowpat. I have never, and never will respond to anyone who labels me, I am who I am, I live in my way, without interference with or from others.
> 
> End of.
> 
> Rob


 I'm the oppisite! I'm all of those things (well possibly not a cow-pat), it matters not! But yes I live the same way as you LOL!!!

Jo xxx


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## jojo

wink said:


> I hardly think that a person who, having reached the age of sixty (the age I believe qualifies a UK citizen to receive a heating allowance) and having never worked a day in their lives, (which I also consider improbable) is likely to be living in Portugal as an expat.


 Coincidentally, my ex MIL has a holiday home in Portugal, where she spends her winters and a few weeks during the summer and she has never worked. She may have done bits and pieces during the war as part of the war effort, but thats all. She gets the heating allowance! 

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland

wink said:


> I hardly think that a person who, having reached the age of sixty (the age I believe qualifies a UK citizen to receive a heating allowance) and having never worked a day in their lives, (which I also consider improbable) is likely to be living in Portugal as an expat.




Really? I know plenty of people mainly women who live abroad and have never worked in their lives or at least since the day they married.


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## anapedrosa

Waterdog,

You've generated an interesting thread. I'm not there yet, but I have pondered your question and wondered whether the question is open to those not from the UK (kidding).

There are certainly choices we all make in deciding where to live. My parents have a place in the Algarve and I have been many times. They and their friends were puzzled when we decided that we would prefer to move to the Silver Coast. There were a number of reasons, cost, proximity to Lisbon and bit too touristy for us. I speak Portuguese my other half is starting to learn. 

But, there is another reason we loved the Silver Coast. The trees and the greenery, we find the Algarve a bit arid for our liking - but funny enough we realized that they will remind us a bit of home. I think it's important to find what makes you comfortable, but I also think it's important to respect the local culture - but then, I may be biased, I'm a Canadian-Portuguese wanna be expat, because to me expat is someone who leaves their country and I've never lived in Portugal. 

As a teen I biked through several countries in Europe, when I was staying in London I saw a the golden arches. Now I need to preface this by saying I hate that restaurant, makes me feel ill. But I found myself going in and grabbing a bite to eat because suddenly I was a homesick. A long way of saying that even for those who prefer to immerse themselves in the local culture, sometimes a bit of home can feel good (even at the risk of indigestion).


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## pazeamor

*ola!*

Well it's been a while since this question was raised but I thought I'd put my two cents in 

I'm new to the expat forum though I've been living here for almost three years. I've always been one for embracing other cultures and trying to learn new languages and I live in Alvor in the Algarve - I totally agree don't stick us all in one bracket we're individuals. I have worked in the tourism industry here up until now but not because I want to 'stick with my own', but because without speaking the language fluently job opportunities are of course very limited. I am trying to improve daily but of course it takes time, my partner is actually Portuguese though an English speaker so we tend to fall into speaking my mother tongue, a habit we really need to break - I'd like to do more than just smile and nod every time we go and stay with his family! Our wedding is next September and I'm determined by then I'll be able to hold conversations with the Portuguese guests time will tell...

One thing I have found here though is a great difficulty to meet like minded people of a similar age. I am 26 years old so relatively young for an expat and every single person I've met of my age that either lives here or comes over to work for the summer months simply want to go out and get drunk and the rest. I also have numerous friends in their early to mid thirties who have lived here years carrying on that pattern with no desire to change it, each to their own of course but it's really not me.

Though I understand quite a lot of Portuguese currently mine isn't good enough to be able to have a serious conversation with a non English speaker, I'm sure if I could speak the language fluently there'd be many Portuguese people I could connect with. My own fault I know I need to knuckle down and master it. To follow from some of the comments I read I can completely see why initially when settling here you lean towards other British people, though it would be nice to have friends because you have a lot in common like back home and not just because you ended up settling in the same town which is the situation I've found myself in. It really would be great to meet a female friend to have a natter with over a brew, we'll see...


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## Verinia

I sometimes wonder why we call ourselves expats and not immigrants? Is there a difference?


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## anapedrosa

Verinia, I went to the dictionary first.

Expatriate - a person who lives outside their native country.
Immigrant - a person who comes to live permanently in another country

But, I suspect it has to do with prestige and community. In Portugal the Expats are a community, a fairly well to do one in comparison with the Portuguese. In Canada (and I suspect the UK) immigrants are made up of communities from other countries that do not tend to be as well of as the locals. 

I wonder what the children of the Expat community, those who were born or grow up in Portugal refer to themselves as. I met one lad who referred to himself as Portuguese, I found it interesting because his heritage was clearly not Portuguese and he spoke English without a Portuguese accent.


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## oronero

anapedrosa said:


> But, I suspect it has to do with prestige and community. In Portugal the Expats are a community, a fairly well to do one in comparison with the Portuguese. In Canada (and I suspect the UK) immigrants are made up of communities from other countries that do not tend to be as well of as the locals.


The above statement sounds rather 'snobby'! So you feel that you are more refined than the local indigenous people and that you have done better than them or what their own countrymen achieve abroad???



anapedrosa said:


> I wonder what the children of the Expat community, those who were born or grow up in Portugal refer to themselves as. I met one lad who referred to himself as Portuguese, I found it interesting because his heritage was clearly not Portuguese and he spoke English without a Portuguese accent.


I am a 1st generation descendant of Portuguese parents who left Portugal for the UK in the late 1950's. I consider myself British of Portuguese descent but most importantly I consider myself a human and find the labels that people try to 'pigeon-hole' others by a cause of bigoted perceptions and so short sighted... a bit like stating that one group of people are better than any other. 

Circumstance and the surrounding environment play a great part in forming how a person develops, but the same person might well have developed into a different person if they been fortunate to have had better circumstances and environmental factors.

Consider yourself lucky that you were born into whatever surroundings you had, but don't judge yourself better than another because of who your parents were or where your mother happened to be when she gave birth to you!


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## canoeman

oronero said:


> The above statement sounds rather 'snobby'! So you feel that you are more refined than the local indigenous people and that you have done better than them or what their own countrymen achieve abroad???
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 1st generation descendant of Portuguese parents who left Portugal for the UK in the late 1950's. I consider myself British of Portuguese descent but most importantly I consider myself a human and find the labels that people try to 'pigeon-hole' others by a cause of bigoted perceptions and so short sighted... a bit like stating that one group of people are better than any other.
> 
> Circumstance and the surrounding environment play a great part in forming how a person develops, but the same person might well have developed into a different person if they been fortunate to have had better circumstances and environmental factors.
> 
> Consider yourself lucky that you were born into whatever surroundings you had, but don't judge yourself better than another because of who your parents were or where your mother happened to be when she gave birth to you!


Think your response rather harsh and unneccasery


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## oronero

Sorry *canoeman* but I find it difficult to accept how some people believe that they are better than others.

I do hope that it was misinterpreted by myself, but that it is how the written words were understood by me and it does make me angry.

I know that we do have to make a quick analysis of situations and our perception helps us to do this as there is limited time to act in certain circumstances, but we are not in that sort of environment here, perhaps the words chosen were rushed.

As I said earlier, I hope that I have understood the intention of the sentence wrongly. 

Furthermore I did place a number of questions after my first statement as I was unsure if that was intention of the quoted script and thus my reply.


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## siobhanwf

oronero said:


> Sorry *canoeman* but I find it difficult to accept how some people believe that they are better than others.
> 
> I do hope that it was misinterpreted by myself, but that it is how the written words were understood by me and it does make me angry.
> 
> I know that we do have to make a quick analysis of situations and our perception helps us to do this as there is limited time to act in certain circumstances, but we are not in that sort of environment here, perhaps the words chosen were rushed.
> 
> As I said earlier, I hope that I have understood the intention of the sentence wrongly.



PLEASE PLAY NICE !!! don`t want to have to start :boxing: with anyone


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## siobhanwf

Ana PLEASE PLAY NICE.


there is a very blurry area between expat and immigrant


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## anapedrosa

Yikes - my intention was not to be offensive. I was making what I thought were social observations. I have a degree in linguistics, so I tend to look at language analytically and not with judgement, or certainly no judgement intended. Certain words have negative connotations that can be observed in their use, for example by looking at their use in the newspapers. I feel it is natural to choose a term that has a positive connotation.

I certainly don't think of myself as above anyone. Oronero - my circumstances are similar, only I was born in Canada. When I am in Portugal, I refer to myself as Portuguese, which I am and quite happy with that. I am looking forward to learning more about my heritage.

I am surprised at the strength of reaction to my comment, and frankly a bit disappointed.

By the way - I don't think of myself as either an Expat nor Immigrant, but I recognize and interact with many people who identify themselves in these communities.


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## Verinia

Interesting response. I didn't mean to start any contention, but think the two definitions exactly the same. Expatriate - a person who lives outside their native country.
Immigrant - a person who comes to live permanently in another country

My husband and I have come to live permanently in this country. We will probably be here until we die, so I guess we are immigrants. My husband's parents were born in Jamaica and came to England on an invite from the Government and were certainly never seen as expats, but were always referred to as immigrants. I am not sure my husband would ever be perceived as an expat wherever he went...so yes, a bit blurry. All I know is that the Portugese have been extremely kind and welcoming to us on every level, which is why I have come to love the country.


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## oronero

Okay *anapedrosa* point taken that it was not your intention to cause the controversy that I understood. If you were fishing for a bite, I bit...good and hard!


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## anapedrosa

oronero said:


> Okay *anapedrosa* point taken that it was not your intention to cause the controversy that I understood. If you were fishing for a bite, I bit...good and hard!


I wasn't fishing for a bite, I am sorry if I caused offense, I was truly caught off guard by your reaction and by moderator response - naive on my part I guess.


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## anapedrosa

Verinia said:


> Interesting response. I didn't mean to start any contention, but think the two definitions exactly the same. Expatriate - a person who lives outside their native country.
> Immigrant - a person who comes to live permanently in another country


I agree the definition is similar, perhaps people on temporary work assignments might see themselves as expats. My husband and I were just chatting about this question (after I told him about my inadvertent gaffe) and we figure that he will be an immigrant but not me. The Portuguese have a name for people who return, I can't recall what it is, but I guess that's what I'll be.

I don't react strongly to people attaching labels to me, but I think that's simply because I see myself as a collection of many things.


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## siobhanwf

A long time ago I decided that I am ME!! and will not be labled as an expat or anything else for that matter. 

Hubby lived in Hong Kong for 33 years I lived in the Uk for 35 years and never used the word expat.

I am me....nothing else


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## oronero

siobhanwf said:


> A long time ago I decided that I am ME!! and will not be labled as an expat or anything else for that matter.
> 
> 
> I am me....nothing else


Categorization people into groups is bad, and in extreme cases is used to blame things upon a certain group, many a war this has caused.

We are all humans sharing this planet with other animals and fauna, however it does not mean that we all have to love one another all the time, it is okay to dislike individual people and things as long as there is a logical reason for it. :grouphug:


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## AidanMcK

expatforum.com in case anyone forgot.

Basically we're all expats here, like it or not, especially in what the english word has come to mean over time. I knew I was an expat long before I knew that expat was short for expatriot believe it or not.

I think furthermore that anyone who still has the option to return to their native land or move to a different country if they needed to is an expat as opposed to an immigrant.


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## MrBife

I guess anyone who lives outside their country of birth become an expat and yet I don't see an 'expat forum' for anyone Sudanese living in Iceland. (Maybe a minority appeal for that website but you get my drift). 

I left the UK 25 years ago to enlarge my horizons, to get away from people with an 'island mentality' and to discover a different viewpoint. In summary I guess I became more of a European.

I occasionally cringe and pretend I don't speak English in some situations that involve loud offensive brits, I also enjoy an occasional holiday visit to the UK just to remind myself that I live in a place that makes me fulfilled and happy. (but after two weeks can't wait to get back to Portugal - my home).

I still work and earn less than I would in the UK and the rosy glow of Portugal as a place for an idealistic lifestyle is somewhat tainted by modern politics but then show me any place where the politicians are honest. If you don't learn the language it's possible to keep 'head in the sand' and perpetuate the rosy glow. But if you do its interesting to follow developments in all avenues of life - the changes just over the last 25 years have been amazing.

If I were to move from here it wouldn't be to go back to the UK and so far Portugal still has my heart.


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## siobhanwf

Well said Mr Bife. 

Left Ireland in 1968 to work as aircrew for a well know airline  spent 12 years in and out of UK flying internationally. So I guess European would suite me too.  when I travel I come HOME to Portugal. I go to visit Ireland and UK


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## Waterdog

*Reborn?*



AidanMcK said:


> expatforum.com in case anyone forgot.
> 
> Basically we're all expats here, like it or not, especially in what the english word has come to mean over time. I knew I was an expat long before I knew that expat was short for expatriot believe it or not.
> 
> I think furthermore that anyone who still has the option to return to their native land or move to a different country if they needed to is an expat as opposed to an immigrant.


After 7 pages of discussion this theme lay dormant for 20 months so what happened to resuscitate it?

For the record, living about 6 months a year in the UK & voting & paying British taxes but the rest of my time elsewhere travelling I am still not sure what I am?

Would call myself a traveller but that can have an unfortunate connotation & explorer just sounds plain daft!

Any thoughts?


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## siobhanwf

Threads get picked up when NEW MEMBERS or members who have a bit of free time and are interested read through the posts....not rocket science


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## Waterdog

siobhanwf said:


> Threads get picked up when NEW MEMBERS or members who have a bit of free time and are interested read through the posts....not rocket science


Thank you


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## In 2 bikes

Waterdog said:


> After 7 pages of discussion this theme lay dormant for 20 months so what happened to resuscitate it?
> 
> For the record, living about 6 months a year in the UK & voting & paying British taxes but the rest of my time elsewhere travelling I am still not sure what I am?
> 
> Would call myself a traveller but that can have an unfortunate connotation & explorer just sounds plain daft!
> 
> Any thoughts?


This thread got my attention and I heard a statistic that suggests something like 75% of people, worldwide, die within 8 miles of where they were born. If this were true, does that make expats intrepid explorers, or just people who are brave enough and keen to look over the rim of their box?


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## Waterdog

In 2 bikes said:


> This thread got my attention and I heard a statistic that suggests something like 75% of people, worldwide, die within 8 miles of where they were born. If this were true, does that make expats intrepid explorers, or just people who are brave enough and keen to look over the rim of their box?


Like all stats believe it is important to lift the lid.

Suspect the majority of people in the 3rd world do not have the opportunity to travel so this could account for a lot of that 75%. Then there are other countries where travel is not permitted.

Just think we are not so much brave but lucky to have the choice.


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## In 2 bikes

Waterdog said:


> Just think we are not so much brave but lucky to have the choice.


Agreed !


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## bambooo

*[B]What kind of ex-pat am I ?[/B]*

As a ‘newbie’ I too shall add my 5 pesos worth to this resurrected thread !

Well 15 yrs ago having had just about all I could take of the UK I bought and old Mercedes bus and headed for Spain , not the coast but Rural Spain surrounded by mountains and rivers where nobody spoke any English ! there I stayed for 8 yrs before heading to Thailand where I spent many months touring around the Northern parts with it’s spectacular Mountains and rivers .

Soon after heading down to Cambodia to run a beach resort on a beautiful China Sea beach for a couple of years and recently I have been living on a tropical Island in the south Pacific Ocean for the past 5 years with another Beach resort .

Now I feel it is time to come home , not home to the UK but Home to Europe, to a part of Portugal without discos and nightclubs , without the maddening holiday crowds but with Mountains of green dotted with rivers and lakes , where the traditional cultures still exist , where life goes by at a steady pace , what sort of Ex-pat does that make me , I’m not sure , a crazy one I guess ;-)


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## Waterdog

bambooo said:


> As a ‘newbie’ I too shall add my 5 pesos worth to this resurrected thread !
> 
> Well 15 yrs ago having had just about all I could take of the UK I bought and old Mercedes bus and headed for Spain , not the coast but Rural Spain surrounded by mountains and rivers where nobody spoke any English ! there I stayed for 8 yrs before heading to Thailand where I spent many months touring around the Northern parts with it’s spectacular Mountains and rivers .
> 
> Soon after heading down to Cambodia to run a beach resort on a beautiful China Sea beach for a couple of years and recently I have been living on a tropical Island in the south Pacific Ocean for the past 5 years with another Beach resort .
> 
> Now I feel it is time to come home , not home to the UK but Home to Europe, to a part of Portugal without discos and nightclubs , without the maddening holiday crowds but with Mountains of green dotted with rivers and lakes , where the traditional cultures still exist , where life goes by at a steady pace , what sort of Ex-pat does that make me , I’m not sure , a crazy one I guess ;-)


So you won't be heading for Albufeira!

However, the top end of the Rio Guadiana may just fit your bill.


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## In 2 bikes

bambooo said:


> .
> 
> Now I feel it is time to come home , not home to the UK but Home to Europe, to a part of Portugal without discos and nightclubs , without the maddening holiday crowds but with Mountains of green dotted with rivers and lakes , where the traditional cultures still exist , where life goes by at a steady pace , what sort of Ex-pat does that make me , I’m not sure , a crazy one I guess ;-)


Nope..just the same as me and da missus. We're up north near mountains. The air is fresher......Not so much B.S.


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## Janina k

Hello

Fred and i have never considered ourselves to be Expats even though that seems the common term. We are Imigrants just like those who have left there home country to move to the UK for a better life.

Krystyna


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## bambooo

Hi Waterdog !
I was in Portimao (Praia de Rocha) Some 20 years ago when it was quiet , I guess it's changed a lot now but the coastline is very beautiful ! I shall investigate the Rio Guadiana area too .

Hi in2bikes !
I guess I'm not the only one that likes beautiful scenery then ! I would imagine it's similar to the English lake district up there !

Thanks


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## Waterdog

bambooo said:


> Hi Waterdog !
> I was in Portimao (Praia de Rocha) Some 20 years ago when it was quiet , I guess it's changed a lot now but the coastline is very beautiful ! I shall investigate the Rio Guadiana area too .
> 
> Hi in2bikes !
> I guess I'm not the only one that likes beautiful scenery then ! I would imagine it's similar to the English lake district up there !
> 
> Thanks


Hi, Yes Albufeira has changes a bit but from what you say the top end of the Guadiana (beyond Alcoutim) could be what you are looking for. Climate is good, cost of living cheap & still holding on to the old ways.

Possibly, should explain why I am writing this on the Portuguese sub forum when I appear to be in Malta?

Truth is I travel a lot but as I still reside in London, strictly I am not any kind of expat.

This thread started after I spent some time on the Algarve & it became apparent that there were 2 distinct kinds of expat; those who leave their old country determined to emerce them selves in their new culture & often rather disparaging of 'the old country' and those who move to a new location, often seeking a better climate & possibly a cheaper cost of living but determined to retain their old culture & not endorse their new country's ways or language.

The Costas of old & the Algarve & Malta rather epitomise this second class.

Not too surprising each group has little time for the other.

For the record, I am writing this in Lagos but depart within the week & do not anticipate being back in Portugal before The Fall.


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## bambooo

Hi Waterdog !
Me 'disparaging of the old country' Never , I just would'nt go back ;-)

Thanks


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## Waterdog

bambooo said:


> Hi Waterdog !
> Me 'disparaging of the old country' Never , I just would'nt go back ;-)
> 
> Thanks


Sorry wasn't suggesting you would just generalising - always dangerous.


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## thegypsyinme

bambooo said:


> As a ‘newbie’ I too shall add my 5 pesos worth to this resurrected thread !
> 
> Well 15 yrs ago having had just about all I could take of the UK I bought and old Mercedes bus and headed for Spain , not the coast but Rural Spain surrounded by mountains and rivers where nobody spoke any English ! there I stayed for 8 yrs before heading to Thailand where I spent many months touring around the Northern parts with it’s spectacular Mountains and rivers .
> 
> Soon after heading down to Cambodia to run a beach resort on a beautiful China Sea beach for a couple of years and recently I have been living on a tropical Island in the south Pacific Ocean for the past 5 years with another Beach resort .
> 
> Now I feel it is time to come home , not home to the UK but Home to Europe, to a part of Portugal without discos and nightclubs , without the maddening holiday crowds but with Mountains of green dotted with rivers and lakes , where the traditional cultures still exist , where life goes by at a steady pace , what sort of Ex-pat does that make me , I’m not sure , a crazy one I guess ;-)


“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.” 
― Mae West


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