# Ancestral Visa



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Last week I paid a reputable visa agent for factual information on the various ways of marrying my fiancee. He holds a UK passport; born in Scotland, resides and has a successful business in Inverness. It appears they are more willing to throw in the own "person" advise and point of view, rather than presenting the facts. Both my fiancee and I have done as much research on the various visa's as we can, trying to work with our own personal situation within the parametres of the lawful requirements. If there is anyone who can give advise on certain issues of an Ancestral Visa, I really would appreciate it, rather than once more be told "why would you want to do it that way", which I find offensive and unnecessary. I merely want the facts in order for us to make the right choice within the parametres of the law and our own personal situation.

Both my Grandparent's were born, raised and married in the UK; since deceased. I understand I'm able to apply through this line of decent. If I apply and receive the Ancestral visa, would this allow us to marry in 2013? I will be working for the family business; accomodation will natural be with him, as well as all my financial needs met. My Mum (British born living in South Africa) will happily stand as financial guarentor should the need arise in any way whatsoever at any given time. I understand there will be limits to my periods of time away from the UK; that the visa is a 5 yr period - all the basics.

I would appreciate those "in the know" for any advise, any further details needed from me, I'll be more than willing to supply 

many thanks,sylviaj


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't know much about the ancestry visa, but to ensure certain advisers aren't giving you false information, here's a direct link to the official UKBA page: UK Border Agency | UK ancestry.

If you qualify, then I imagine it would be fine to marry (I see no restrictions mentioned).


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Have you looked at the guidelines on the UKBA website:

UK Border Agency | UK ancestry

Rights and Responsibilities:

UK Border Agency | Rights and responsibilities

Also, did you check this page as you may already have citizenship through your mother:

UK Border Agency | If you were born outside the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory

Re getting married:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/v...n-uk/marriageandcivilpartnership/eligibility/


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Many thanks for your responses, I do appreciate. We've read all the relevant info on the UK Border Agency site. I did the necessary enquiry regarding a British passport through my Mother, that will take up to 8 months to receive. I have a ticket booked for the Uk leaving in December 2012, this merely done because of an excellent price. A few personal circumstances have changed in my life allowing me more freedom to make decisions on when we marry and which visa is best suited.

Your input is appreciated, many thanks
sylviaj


----------



## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

sylviaj said:


> Many thanks for your responses, I do appreciate. We've read all the relevant info on the UK Border Agency site. I did the necessary enquiry regarding a British passport through my Mother, that will take up to 8 months to receive. I have a ticket booked for the Uk leaving in December 2012, this merely done because of an excellent price. A few personal circumstances have changed in my life allowing me more freedom to make decisions on when we marry and which visa is best suited.
> 
> Your input is appreciated, many thanks
> sylviaj


If you are eligible for a British passport, I'm not sure if you can get a visa. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will come by. 

I would go ahead and get the passport, much less expensive (overall) and then you have many options without having to watch where you are and when.

Good luck with whatever you do.

M


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mehemlynn said:


> If you are eligible for a British passport, I'm not sure if you can get a visa. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will come by.
> 
> I would go ahead and get the passport, much less expensive (overall) and then you have many options without having to watch where you are and when.


Whether the OP already has British nationality depends on a number of things, such as the kind of citizenship her parent had, i.e. British citizen otherwise by descent or by descent, whether they were married, where she was born and in which year. 

Ancestry visa is a fairly easy visa to obtain provided you have documentary evidence of ancestry from a UK-born grandparent. While recourse to public funds is banned, there are few harsh financial requirements, and OP just needs to show willingness to work. After 5 years the OP can apply for ILR.


----------



## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Whether the OP already has British nationality depends on a number of things, such as the kind of citizenship her parent had, i.e. British citizen otherwise by descent or by descent, whether they were married, where she was born and in which year.
> 
> Ancestry visa is a fairly easy visa to obtain provided you have documentary evidence of ancestry from a UK-born grandparent. While recourse to public funds is banned, there are few harsh financial requirements, and OP just needs to show willingness to work. After 5 years the OP can apply for ILR.


Joppa would definately be someone who knows a lot more than me. 😊

Since I'm American and one generation too far, I didn't look into it too closely.

Good luck with you visa.


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Whether the OP already has British nationality depends on a number of things, such as the kind of citizenship her parent had, i.e. British citizen otherwise by descent or by descent, whether they were married, where she was born and in which year.
> 
> Ancestry visa is a fairly easy visa to obtain provided you have documentary evidence of ancestry from a UK-born grandparent. While recourse to public funds is banned, there are few harsh financial requirements, and OP just needs to show willingness to work. After 5 years the OP can apply for ILR.


The OP indicated that it would take 8 months to get a UK passport through her mother (to me that means that she has figured out that she is eligible but just doesn't want to wait that long~but I could be wrong). If that is the case, can she in fact opt for an ancestry visa rather than a British passport?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> The OP indicated that it would take 8 months to get a UK passport through her mother (to me that means that she has figured out that she is eligible but just doesn't want to wait that long~but I could be wrong). If that is the case, can she in fact opt for an ancestry visa rather than a British passport?


I don't know where the 8 months comes from, but if she needs to register as British before applying for passport (a common scenario for those with a British parent), then 3-4 months is more likely as every application for registration goes to Liverpool and they have a backlog. 
Yes, unless she is British from birth, it's quite in order to get an ancestry visa. Or she can have a right of abode endorsement in her passport, allowing her to come and go without being subject to immigration control. This is often done by those who may automatically lose their other nationality if they apply for British passport or claim British citizenship (Japan, for example, and about 70 others).


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Joppa said:


> I don't know where the 8 months comes from, but if she needs to register as British before applying for passport (a common scenario for those with a British parent), then 3-4 months is more likely as every application for registration goes to Liverpool and they have a backlog.
> Yes, unless she is British from birth, it's quite in order to get an ancestry visa. Or she can have a right of abode endorsement in her passport, allowing her to come and go without being subject to immigration control. This is often done by those who may automatically lose their other nationality if they apply for British passport or claim British citizenship (Japan, for example, and about 70 others).


Thanks. She referenced 8 months in 1 of her posts.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> Thanks. She referenced 8 months in 1 of her posts.


Yes, I have seen that but I don't know how she arrives at 8 months. 3-4 months plus 6-8 weeks for first passport may be more like it. This is the most pessimistic calculation and she may get it quite a bit sooner.


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Thank you all, after my frustrating paid visit to a visa agent, fantastic to receive open answers so quickly. My birth year date requires me to be registered it, according to South Africa advise, it's estimated to take around 6 months. Waiting for my passport to be processed will be roughly around 2 months. Having booked and paid for my flight for December 2012, merely because of a brilliant price, waiting for a British passport wouldn't aid my cause. I was informed by the agent I legally cannot apply for both my British passport AND apply for a fiancee or a spousal visa at the same time. I thought perhaps getting the ball rolling on my passport would be a good thing anyway; according to her - not!!

So that leaves us with a choice between a fiancee visa or finding out the in's and out's of an ancestral visa. Fiancee visa does suit us, being a 6 months allowance period, fit's in with our plans to come back to South Africa and have a blessing for my family - then once here applying for the spousal visa in order to go back over to the UK and settle. We meet the criteria for an fiancee visa, however the thought of rushing in and booking venues, receptions etc, etc to prove we do intend to marry was a little disappointing. Our thoughts on an ancestral visa, I'm already in the UK in December which would allow us both to be involved in all the arranging, to at least enjoy the process together ....yes...we both "that side of 45" and this is considered a wonderful gift; second time round.

Any other thoughts or advise would be welcome. I rather be armed with knowledge that have this agent tell me again "why would you want to do it that way" - as I said before, it appears they more willing to throw in their own personal feelings, than present the facts of both the good and the bad.

Many thanks all, much appreciated!!!


----------



## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

sylviaj said:


> Thank you all, after my frustrating paid visit to a visa agent, fantastic to receive open answers so quickly. My birth year date requires me to be registered it, according to South Africa advise, it's estimated to take around 6 months. Waiting for my passport to be processed will be roughly around 2 months. Having booked and paid for my flight for December 2012, merely because of a brilliant price, waiting for a British passport wouldn't aid my cause. I was informed by the agent I legally cannot apply for both my British passport AND apply for a fiancee or a spousal visa at the same time. I thought perhaps getting the ball rolling on my passport would be a good thing anyway; according to her - not!!
> 
> So that leaves us with a choice between a fiancee visa or finding out the in's and out's of an ancestral visa. Fiancee visa does suit us, being a 6 months allowance period, fit's in with our plans to come back to South Africa and have a blessing for my family - then once here applying for the spousal visa in order to go back over to the UK and settle. We meet the criteria for an fiancee visa, however the thought of rushing in and booking venues, receptions etc, etc to prove we do intend to marry was a little disappointing. Our thoughts on an ancestral visa, I'm already in the UK in December which would allow us both to be involved in all the arranging, to at least enjoy the process together ....yes...we both "that side of 45" and this is considered a wonderful gift; second time round.
> 
> ...


I'm on a 2nd time around too-and yes, it is a most wonderful gift

Re the fiance(e) visa, it's organised so that the bride or groom can arrive to the UK, marry in the UK, and then apply whilst still in the UK for a Further Leave to Remain (FLR), which turns the fiance(e) visa into the probationary spouse visa. 

After the probationary period the holder is then usually able to apply for the Indefinite Leave to Remain. (Terms and conditions apply, read the UKBA pages for the fiance(e) visa carefully for all of the information) warning-several links to read from this page:

UK Border Agency | Fiance(e) or proposed civil partner of a British citizen or settled person


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks so much, I wasn't aware we could apply for a probationary spousal visa in the Uk after marriage. I was led to believe I had to leave the UK after 6 months, come back to South Africa and then apply for a Spousal Visa. This wasn't a train smash as we intended to come back Feb/March or there abouts to have a blessing for my family, pack up what I needed etc, etc. 

I think the problem I'm having is the agent has her own agenda going. My fiancee is coming to South Africa for a weeks visit in July, due to business can't stay long. The agents insists we rather marry in a court of law, apply for a Spousal visa in South Africa - to her, it's problem solved, so why bother with anything else. Annoying when there are other options available, besides not wanting to do a slap shot marriage in a court room.

But thank you for shedding some more light on the situation. My 2nd visit to her I think I will be more confident in knowledge. Congrats on 2nd time around - it's wonderful isn't it!

Take care and blessings


----------



## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

sylviaj said:


> ...
> 
> I think the problem I'm having is the agent has her own agenda going. My fiancee is coming to South Africa for a weeks visit in July, due to business can't stay long. The agents insists we rather marry in a court of law, apply for a Spousal visa in South Africa - *to her, it's problem solved*, so why bother with anything else. Annoying when there are other options available, besides not wanting to do a slap shot marriage in a court room...


(My bold in the quote) Lol, I think to her, it's not so much 'problem solved' as it is 'ca-ching! More money for the agent'. 

It's your wedding, and your life-the agent does seem to have her own agenda (I'm thinking money) when the focus should be on you and your fiance, and how to achieve your matrimonial goals legally.


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I think, regardless of what your agent might think, it comes down to the fact that you have a potential three choices for applying for leave to enter the UK, which is a nice position to be in. 

If you qualify for the *Ancestry visa*, you'll then have 5 years in which to plan your wedding and the financial proof isn't so demanding as the other visas. However, there is more emphasis on "you plan to work" (because on this visa, the onus seems to be more on you supporting yourself (I don't know whether marrying on the Ancestry visa waives that requirement given that the reason really is just to receive enough support not to need public funds). This visa gives you a degree of flexibility in that, at the end of it, you can either apply to settle indefinitely, or apply for a further extension of stay as long as you still meet the Ancestry visa requirements, and if the unthinkable happens and you find yourself without partner before you've reached the application stage for Indefinite Leave To Remain, you are entitled to stay unlike any of the marriage/unmarried partner visas. There can be longer processing times for these visas due to backlog, but supporting documents are less onerous. In order to settle permanently in the UK, you will only go through two visa processes.

You also have the option to apply for the *Fianceé visa*, plan and carry at your wedding in the UK within 6 months, then apply from within the UK for *Further Leave To Remain *(similar to the Spouse visa except you can apply from within the UK). You cannot work on the initial 6 month fiancée visa but can do so on the FLR, _though are not obliged to work_ provided you (together with income from your fiancée) meet the annual income requirements for the visa. Financial support is more stringent but both your finances and those of your partner are accounted for. This option will mean you paying for four visa processes if applying all the way through to settlement. Processing times can be relatively quick but is country-dependant.

You even have the option to marry before coming to the UK (clearly not part of your plans) and then apply for the *Spouse visa*. This is pretty much identical to the fiancée route except there's one less visa involved, you can work immediately if you wish to and you must apply from overseas. To proceed all the way through to settlement will require undergoing three visa applications, but again processing times can be relatively quick - again country-dependant.

Fees for each route will vary which might also be a factor, but overall those are your choices, and all three will lead you up to the point of being able to apply for Indefinite Leave To Remain after 5 years in the UK provided you meet the requirements. I'm no adviser but it looks to me like Ancestry is your most flexible option if you intend working. If not, the fiancée visa might be a better option. I hope this helps.


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

This is brilliant - thank you so much! Exactly what I'm looking for, the options laid out with legal requirements. I'm leaning very much toward the Ancestry Visa myself, both my Grandparents on my Mum's side were both born, raised and married in the UK. Visa prices in South Africa are horrifically expensive, although we able to go the 2 or 3 visa route's, we also feel wherever costs can be saved, it must be.

Do you have any knowledge of the following: I will be working for the family business, staying within the confines of the family home; does applying for the Ancestry visa require great detail of the relationship to the person offering work and accomodation? I presume offer of work and salary will have to be secured officially. My fiancee's business is successful and productive, but not a huge, big enterprise, but most cetainly enough to support the both of us adequately. I will be paid remuneration on a par with my salary here in South Africa or in keeping with legal requirements they regard as "supporting yourself". On my previous visits to him in the UK, I have always stated a very close friend on my travel visa's. This in itself is true, as my family have met him on visits to the UK as well as on his visits to South Africa. Accomodation would a secured job offer be justifiable wnough through that?? All just thought patterns at this stage, we not wanting to run the risk of losing the application through untruths.

I really appreciate your time and effort in your indepth explanations, this helps me more than any info I have received through the agent and in talking to people in daily passing who believe they know the differences.

Many thanks again!


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I've not seen anything written about working restrictions but my knowledge isn't great regarding Ancestry visas. They do seem simpler than the others though provided you meet the Ancestry requirements. Employment is employment, no matter who it is for, but some official paperwork proving it will likely help your application.

The key to a successful application is, when answering each question on the visa application form, thinking "and how do I prove this answer?". I haven't read the Ancestry application in detail (I just know it's half the length of the other two and has more emphasis on proving your eligibility for Ancestry) but if there's a question about supporting yourself, then evidential documentation would be a formal letter of employment stating salary and position (even if from family). If the business has official company-headed stationery, even better. 
On proof of accommodation, you'll need another letter from family permitting you to stay where you intend to stay (if necessary, with proof from the family that they own the house or otherwise have permission to allow you to stay there, and that there won't be overcrowding). This proof can be obtained from issuing original title deeds, mortgage statements, photos of additional bedrooms if there is likely to be any doubt about overcrowding etc. I doubt where you will be living will matter provided you can prove you'll have no need of public funds. I expect many people on Ancestry visas join family in the UK.

Given that you intend to work, the Ancestry visa seems like the no-brainer of a choice provided you're not in a desperate rush for a swift application turnaround.


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Very helpful info, many thanks. Just one last question, forgive me. Would you consider it an unwise move to voice to a visa agent that my intention of applying for an Ancestry visa is in fact for marriage purposes? That we find this choice more flexible and less expensive than applying via other means? My original meeting and payment with her was for a fiancee/spousal visa, to go back and enquire about an Ancestry visa, would that be causing some trouble or frowned upon as a little like entering from the back door? LOL I have a fear of being arrested and thrown into jail for life for misrepresenting my intentions!


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

The option of the Ancestry visa is not an avenue most migrants have open to them, and everyone else moving for family settlement has no choice but to apply via the marriage/partners/dependents routes instead. You DO have a choice: an additional and arguably simpler route through entitlement of your birth ancestry, and if you want to take advantage of that, then you should. It's not a back-door option, but something you are entitled to apply for by birthright.

YOU are the paying customer and the advisor should honour _your_ wishes, only warning you against problems with your chosen route and offering advice if there is _genuinely_ a better route for you and your circumstances. In your case, you have an advisor who is trying to force you down a potentially unnecessary route. It's possible that the advisor is not especially familiar with the Ancestry route and doesn't want to invest a lot of time in researching it (which they MUST do if you are paying them for advice and they suggest the Ancestry route). 

To be honest, you're not bound to the advisor at all and from the information you've given it doesn't actually sound like you really need one (advisors are more useful when there parental complexities with children - e.g. divorce and only one parent wanting to bring children to the UK, or where there has been other problems such as a history of refused visas, deportation etc). Unless you can think of anything that might complicate your case, then unless contracted otherwise, it might be better just to not go back, save yourself further money, and submit your own application. There are no 'traps'. You ONLY need to meet the stated requirements (there's no hidden agenda) and you need to provide supporting documents to back up the form questions (which you have to do yourself anyway with or without an advisor).

Edit to add: don't worry about all the questions. Most of us here are people already part way through the UK visa process and, in gratitude of having our own million questions answered by others, are only too glad to give back some help of our own.


----------



## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Agree with 2far.... I think you should be able to apply on your own for an ancestry visa and not have to necessarily pay an advisor to 'help' you, as it sounds like your case is fairly straightforward.

Read the guidance notes as you go along filling in the application and ask lots of questions here... there are some VERY smart people here who have 'been there, done that and have the visa to prove it,' and who are VERY quick with advice and assistance (I owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to everyone here who has has to put up with me these last 4 months).

In any event, good luck with your application and congratulations in advance on your marriage!!!


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

You're an angel - thank you, your time is very much appreciated. I tend to get things orderly in my mind by asking a million questions. I'll be mulling this over with my other half.

If anyone knows of the best route to go to request the original or vault issue of UK birth and marriage certificates( born & married in Morecambe) of my Grandparents, please give me a shout. This is the next thing to start looking into, the quicker the better I guess.

Thank you 2farapart - you're a star!! Love the pep talk, did wonders.


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks WestCoast, appreciate your kind words. Seemed so daunting and overwhelming in the beginning of this process, this site certainly has given me lots of info and encouragement.
No doubt I'll be back with a ton of other questions!!

Thanks for wishes, seems more real and exciting than it did a week again, take care


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

sylviaj said:


> You're an angel - thank you, your time is very much appreciated. I tend to get things orderly in my mind by asking a million questions. I'll be mulling this over with my other half.
> 
> If anyone knows of the best route to go to request the original or vault issue of UK birth and marriage certificates( born & married in Morecambe) of my Grandparents, please give me a shout. This is the next thing to start looking into, the quicker the better I guess.
> 
> Thank you 2farapart - you're a star!! Love the pep talk, did wonders.


You could try ordering online direct from the UK government's General Register Office: Registration Services - Certificate Ordering Service. There will be some fees involved, but you should be able to obtain genuine documents, and they ship overseas too.


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Fantastic!! - thanks 2far, wow what a pleasure to have such an awesome response.

Have a wonderful week end, take care


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

sylviaj said:


> Fantastic!! - thanks 2far, wow what a pleasure to have such an awesome response.
> 
> Have a wonderful week end, take care


Be careful. If you just google 'UK birth/marriage certificates', you get commercial organisations that put their own profit margin on the official register office fees, and you get no better service or faster turnaround.


----------



## sylviaj (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks for the warning Joppa. I think 2far's suggestion of going through the UK government's Register Office, is a good one. I'm not familiar with the correct channel's regarding this kind of request, I'll have to rely on those that have more experience.

Have a good week end - many thanks for your input!


----------



## Sandra.sa.usa.uk (Jul 16, 2012)

sylviaj said:


> Last week I paid a reputable visa agent for factual information on the various ways of marrying my fiancee. He holds a UK passport; born in Scotland, resides and has a successful business in Inverness. It appears they are more willing to throw in the own "person" advise and point of view, rather than presenting the facts. Both my fiancee and I have done as much research on the various visa's as we can, trying to work with our own personal situation within the parametres of the lawful requirements. If there is anyone who can give advise on certain issues of an Ancestral Visa, I really would appreciate it, rather than once more be told "why would you want to do it that way", which I find offensive and unnecessary. I merely want the facts in order for us to make the right choice within the parametres of the law and our own personal situation.
> 
> Both my Grandparent's were born, raised and married in the UK; since deceased. I understand I'm able to apply through this line of decent. If I apply and receive the Ancestral visa, would this allow us to marry in 2013? I will be working for the family business; accomodation will natural be with him, as well as all my financial needs met. My Mum (British born living in South Africa) will happily stand as financial guarentor should the need arise in any way whatsoever at any given time. I understand there will be limits to my periods of time away from the UK; that the visa is a 5 yr period - all the basics.
> 
> ...


Hi,
The application is fairly easy although you must have all the correct un-abridged birth certificates - yours, your mother or father, marriage certificates. You must show the link between yourself and your grandparents, but when you finally come to the end of the 5 years, the process to then apply for the Leave to Remain is a time consuming one with lots of paperwork, and then one has to wait a very long wait for it to be approved. 
I too am from Durban, moved to USA then from there with my UK husband came to England. I thought having the 5 years would give me the time to settle in, but I should have gone the route of Fiancee/wife (in my case) - application would have been for 2 years. 
One big expensive issue I had to deal with was when I was finally granted my Ancestral visa (in Chicago) I was not told to travel as close to the date on my visa. I came into the UK 2 months after my visa was issued - the problem is...now applying for my Leave to Remain, I have to get an extension. This is because the earliest I can apply for my Leave to Remain is one month before it expired...leaving me with a one month shortfall....therefore I have to pay for an extension to cover my one month, but it is valid for 2 years - cost £561. (Not happy). I wish it was simple! Good luck.


----------



## ljchoccie (Jul 14, 2012)

I think you should apply for your British passport if you are eligible....
My husband and I have been through one drama after another with visa's!
I don't know much about fiancé visa but spouse visa and ancestry visa both have 5 year probationary periods, meaning no public funds so be very careful with that rule, if you are financially stable you may be okay but you won't be able to claim housing benefit, income support etc...... You will also need to check if you are eligible to use NHS. I think you have to be working for at least 12 months before you get free health care from NHS.
Another thing to consider I'm pretty sure you can't switch visa's once you are on one..... So 5 years is a long time compared to waiting 8 months for a passport and then you are entitled to everything and anything...... Your call though!
Good luck with the wedding )


----------

