# EEA4 criminal conviction and Divorce



## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Hi everyone,
I applied for eea4 in June 2015. My wife is Slovak national and British citizen and I am non eea national.we have been married for 5 and half years. I was arrested for drunk and disorderly about 4 times and the most recent being Dec 2012 and charged with fine and 6 months conditional discharge in court. due to some personal issues my wife have had enough with me and initiated the divorce and informed the home office. we did obtained the decree nisi and that was on 2013. we never lived apart. we live in the same house and all the bills are paid by her and is on her name except the council tax. after some time we realize, to go further with a divorce is a huge mistake and we didn't apply for decree absolute. we didn't apply anything in the court because we thought that after one year if no one applies for decree absolute, the court will throw the case anyway. now the question is 
A) when I filled the application I ticked the box where it says no criminal conviction because I thought I don't have to declare the spent conviction. my last conviction was on 2012.
B) The home office asked for more information and sent us the Questionnaire to fill, one for my wife and one for me, to know if we are still married and proof that we are living together. I did send them my wife's 5 years payslip, her eea passport, our council tax bill , my gp report. her bank statement and my bank statement at the time of application filling and some along with their letter. What else can I send? I don't have any other proof.
C)what are the chances of me getting PR?
D) In European law if you stayed legally in UK for five years and your spouse is exercising treaty right (continuous 5 years employment) then the non eea family member has automatic rights for permanent but it seems the HO is very reluctant to put the stamp in my passport
kind regards
kebonk


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Do you have residence card originally issued for 5 years? Your wife being a dual national cannot normally exercise treaty right in UK. I think these factors will matter far more than your non-divorce and convictions.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

thank you for your quick reply. I had the 5 years residence permit before she got the British citizenship. I received my residence permit on august 2010 and was married on march 2010. she received her citizenship on 2013. I applied the eea4 application under her Slovak citizenship(passport), she has been working continuously for five years and we sent all the relevant document but now your answer made me more worried. any suggestion or advice will be highly appreciated.

kind regards
kebonk


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The fact as I can ascertain is that in 2013, when your wife got naturalised as British, she automatically stopped being a qualified person exercising EU treaty right, and your right to reside in UK also ceased as family member. How did you answer the question on EEA4 application about her nationality? If you only declared her Slovak citizenship, you have lied. They will sooner or later find out about her naturalisation (just by checking their database), and your application will be refused, and you may even be told to leave UK.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

dear sir , thank you for your reply. I did mentioned her both citizenships. in my opinion if I received the residence permit before she received her British citizenship, I m regarded as qualified person. I received my RC on 2010 and she received her citizenship on 2013. I am very worried they will refuse my application. its been nearly six month and they didn't send any information about it but just send the questionnaire form to fill and we sent. please advise what is my next option.

kind regards 
kebonk.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No, it doesn't work like that. The moment your wife got her British nationality she stopped being a qualified person, and your residence card became null and void. To stay on in UK, you should have applied for leave to remain as spouse of a British citizen, meeting the financial requirement.
You have no choice but to wait for the outcome of your application.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Dear sir, thank you for your reply. in previous thread ben1981 username in my friend case you replied that dual citizen family member can apply for eea4. my friend got diviorce and didn't use his wife eea route and applied 14 years long residency instead. this is the exact word you wrote some time ago. 


Joppa's Avatar 
Joppa Joppa is offline 

Moderator

No need to go under Surinder Singh route.
You are allowed to apply for permanent residency after 5 years because you got your residence card before her naturalisation. 
nd applied 14 years long residency instead. this is the exact word you wrote some time ago. 

plz check and I will wait for your reply. I am very worried sir.

kind regards
kebonk


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

When was that reply? Rules changed a couple of years ago.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Dear Joppa, thank you for your reply, that was on

EEA4 and dual citizenship 

ben1981 

16th July 2014 12:49 PM
by Joppa Go to last post 
3 680 Britain Expat Forum for Expats Living in the UK 

you clearly said that if you received the 5 years residency card before her naturalization than the person is entitled for PR
I am just worried if the rules has changed since then. I couldn't find any information in the home office website and some people have got PR status even though their partner have dual citizenship. I am very confused and I didn't consult any solicitor because I was sure your advice is safe enough. I lived in the country more than 10 years legally. 8 years as student and 5 years and going as eea married. what is the option available for me to get the ILR or PR and not the spouse or dependent visa. I would really appreciate your help Mr Joppa or helpful fourm members.
kind regards
kebonk


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kebonk said:


> Dear Joppa, thank you for your reply, that was on
> 
> EEA4 and dual citizenship
> 
> ...



The post you are referring to, I believe was written well over a year ago. Also please dont use the forum for official advice, it is simply that - advice and Joppa kindly offers to share his knowledge and experience. If you need the correct official information you should consult the correct legal body

Jo xxx


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

dear jo and Joppa, thank you for your quick response. yes it was my mistake to fully trust the site and not to consult the solicitor, anyway I have already sent the application and the questionnaire HO sent to me and my wife. I don't want to withdraw the application, its been nearly six month so I will wait for their decision. I am sure it will be rejected like Joppa said but I would like to know what is the option available for me apart from spouse visa , can I apply 14 years lawful and unlawful stay, 10 years lawful stay. just want to know the available option. would really appreciate your help.
kind regards
kebonk


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

any advice and suggestion from respected gurus and member would be highly appreciated. I am just worried and not getting answer from anyone. 
kind regards
kebonk


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

How long did you live with your EEA partner before getting dual citizenship? When did you apply for permanent residence? I think you fail to meet the requirement on one or the other factor.
As jojo says, I can take no responsibility for someone following my out of date response. As stated, I'm only sharing my personal view and I'm not a qualified advisor in any shape or form. Always consult a professional intermediary before embarking on any immigration procedure.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

dear Joppa I applied for PR on June 2015. I lived with my eea partner for more than 5 years and still together. I received my RC on 2010 and she received her british citizenship on 2013. the law is so confusing and I am very worried that I just wasted 5 months on PR application. I know its not your fault and i should have contacted the solicitor at least once before I applied. the solicitor are very expensive.I just want to know what is the best option available for me. your quick response will be highly appreciated.
kind regards
kebonk


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Under the pure interpretation of EU rules, because your partner has spent time exercising treaty right outside her country of birth/nationality, you may be allowed to stay in UK and possibly get PR, but the way UK interprets the law makes you ineligible for either. You just have to wait for the outcome of your application and then plan your next move.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

thank you Joppa for your quick reply. ok I understand that there is very little chance and depends upon the case worker how she will handle the case? I am sure that they will reject my application due to the fact that they want to achieve the target of low immigrant. I have lived in this country for more than 14 years, 9 years as student and 5.5 years as eea spouse. If my PR application gets rejected can I apply for ILR as long residency. my wife is happy to support me for the spouse visa but she will not meet the financial requirement and I don't want to waste to much money on solicitor, visa fees and other stuff. any help from your side will be highly appreciated and once again I want to make clear that I wasn't blaming you for the mistake I done. I am grateful that you and jo are still helping me.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

any suggestion, advice respected gurus and form member. I am just looking for the options that are available for me.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Between your student visa and EEA residence card, has there been any gap in your UK residence? If so, you won't be eligible under the 10-year route for settlement. There is also a limit to how long you can be away from UK. But your criminal record may still get you a refusal.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

thank you Joppa , yes there was 6 months gap in between and I was in hospital in uk for six months which I can prove and have all the required documents. my last conviction for being drunk was on Dec 2012. that will make 3 years this December so I think it will be a spent conviction if I apply the route of legal and illegal 14 years route in jan 2016. I have never been out of uk for more than 2 months each year or less than 6 months in total in my entire stay. what do you suggest or advice me to do at this stage. I repeat I don't want to apply for spouse visa and pay hefty fee for that and again hefty fee for ILR. I would really appreciate your quick response. 
kind regards
kebonk


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

UKVI isn't subject to spent convictions rule so any conviction no matter how old must still be declared and they can take into account under 'Good Character' test.


> immigration and nationality decisions are now exempt from section 4 of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. This means that it does not matter whether a conviction is “spent” when assessing good character provided the application was made in England, Wales or Scotland.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...t_data/file/406368/Chapter_18_Annex_D_v02.pdf


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

thank you Joppa, so one way or another I don't have the chance to get PR. I don't want to argue with their rules because I agree with the fact that citizenship is not the rights but the privilege. hopefully I will receive my reject passport back this week and move to Dubai where I have job confirmation. it will be very hard to convince my wife but I have no other choice. I believe if one door is closed, there are 10 doors open. god willing everything will be sorted this week.
kind regards
kebonk


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

daer Joppa and Jo, I have found some information searching the net about EU and dual citizenship but I am not very sure how it applies to me. my wife lived in Slovakia before she moved to uk and gain a uk passport in 2013 and I had my RC since 2010. she is continuously working since 2007 and we were married since 2010. could you *please kindly read the below information* and see if that rules applies to me. I m not using any solicitor just because they are very expensive and If I get rejected it will be waste of money. 

1 In order to be able to benefit from EU law provisions, the EEA national must normally, amongst other things, be outside of his/her country of citizenship.

The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU), in the case of McCarthy C-343/09, looked at whether a dual British/Irish citizen who had lived all her life in the UK and had never moved across EU borders, could rely on her Irish citizenship to support her husband’s application for a residence card under EU law. The Court decided, amongst other things, that she could not. Following the judgment in McCarthy and as introduced in the 2012 amendments to the 2006 Regulations, a person holding dual citizenship must have exercised his/her right of free movement in order to rely on their European citizenship under EU Law to support an application by a non-EEA family member.

A dual citizen who has always resided in the Member State of which s/he is a national cannot benefit from the provisions of Citizen’s Directive. It no longer makes any difference that the citizen in question is also a national of a Member State other than that where s/he resides. This means that family members are also unable to derive a right of residence under the Directive on the basis of their relationship to such a national. Therefore, as the law presently stands, a dual British/Irish citizen in Northern Ireland can no longer rely on his/her Irish citizenship to support an application for a non-EEA family member, if that dual British/Irish citizen has lived all of his/her life in the UK
I HOPE I WILL HAVE A QUICK RESPONSE FROM RESPECTED FORM MEMBERS AND GURUS. 
KIND REGARDS
KEBONK


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

any advice, suggestion plz form members


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

no help and no advice from anyone. I was searching the net and found amended rules about EEA/dual citizenship. 

A family member of a dual EEA national and British citizen does not have a right of
residence under the regulations on the basis of their relationship to the dual national. 

If they do not have a right of residence on any other basis under the regulations, they will
need leave to enter or remain in the UK under the Immigration Rules.

Transitional arrangements
Transitional arrangements were put in place following amendments to the regulations in
July 2012, which allowed family members of dual EEA and British citizens who had already
relied upon a right of residence as the family member of that dual national to continue to
enjoy a right of residence where the conditions set out below were met. 

Persons residing in the UK on 16 July 2012
Persons already residing in the UK on 16 July 2012 as family members of dual EEA and
British citizens, and who held a valid registration certificate or residence card confirming
this right on 16 October 2012 will continue to be treated as the family member of an EEA
national for as long as they continue to be the family member of that dual national.

This arrangement also applies where a person had a right of residence on this basis on 16
July 2012 and had submitted an application for a document confirming this right on or
before 16 October 2012. Such persons will continue to have a right where a document is
subsequently issued on the basis of this application. 

Dear Joppa I don't see that there should be a problem with my application just because my wife has dual citizenship. Please advise. I would really appreciate your help and JRGE please help me out. you have been very quite and all the respected form member could you please give me some advice. 
kind regards
kebonk


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

I would really appreciate some advice, suggestion from respected people in this reputed form. someone must have some knowledge or experience dealing with such case. desperately waiting for some sort of reply.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My advice would be to go to an immigration lawyer

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, you are covered by transitional arrangement but for your application for permanent residence, any absence from UK that breaks your residence will disqualify you. Have you been absent from UK for longer than 6 months?


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

thank you jo, they are really expensive but I will take your wonderful advice. not many people have given me that advice before, you are the first. I m so thankful for such advice. thank you everyone.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Thank you Joppa, I have not left the country for more than two months and not more than 6 months in total in 5 .5 years and my wife is the same. so I am covered by transitional rule. that really is interesting. so lets go back to my initial question that I didn't declare my court fine and conditional discharge for drunk and disorderly in 2012 nov at the time of application filing. now what impact will it make in my application? its already been six month and no reply from home office yet and just the questionnaire form to fill which I sent it ages ago.
I am just asking you several questions just because the solicitors are very expensive in uk and I don't want to waste a penny on them when I can find reliable and cost free advice in this form. I really appreciate your and jo help and the form members.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

That's a separate issue.


> Public policy, public security, public health
> 
> An applicant and their family members can be removed from the UK on the grounds of:
>  public policy  public security  public health
> Before issuing a document certifying permanent residence or a permanent residence card, you must be certain there are no reasons to refuse on the grounds of public policy, security or health.


This provision includes criminal convictions and failure to declare criminal history. So it depends on how UKVI will look at your case holistically whether you will be granted permanent residence.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Thank you Joppa, yes, I didn't declare it because I thought 2years old conviction I don't have to declare as it will be viewed as spent conviction anyway. are they allowed to hold the application for more than 6 months because I have a conviction? If rejected in cases like mine, will they give me right to appeal? sorry about many questions but my case is not straight forward and I really do like your view as you have helped many form members in the past.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, they can hang on to your application more than 6 months if necessary. Whether you are given the right of appeal will be made clear in your refusal letter.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Dear all, can the HO legally call for interview for EEA4 application after 6 months of application?They are inviting more and more people for interview in Liverpool for EEA4 application. isn't the PR automatic if the eu citizen is exercising treaty right. what the hell they want to prove. In their eyes every interracial marriage is fake. bloody stupid question in the questionnaire form. What language you speak with your wife at home and what is your living arrangement? what is the point to ask these questions when I provided tons of paper with mortgage, language test certificate, job history pretty much everything except the DNA and the blood group. they had literally six months to process the application and in the last hour they are inviting people for interview. why don't they just call for the interview first and if successful take all the necessary documents. this waiting game is pissing me off, even the post man thinks I have serious mental illness ,coz I keep opening the door ,smile and if no parcel for me slam the door. there is a limit for everything. the call centre staff are clueless, they are just like bloody Robots, every question they have literally same answer. "your application is under consideration stage and we will inform you and bla,bla,bla"
why don't they understand that 6 months is pretty long time to hold on to someone's personal , important documents? Sorry respected gurus and form members, I am taking out my frustration in this form but I am pretty sure all the people out there who are waiting will 100% agree with me. anyway congratulation to everyone who received their PR and good luck to those who are still waiting. god bless you all :twisted:


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

You've got a complicated history and in some areas have been less than truthful with the facts.

The HO can call whoever they want for interview and whenever they like.

In your circumstances I would just follow their instructions.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

If every interracial marriage is "fake" in the eyes of the Home Office, then _why_ did they grant me, a non-EEA person of East Asian ethnic origin who is married to a White British man, a Fiancée Visa, FLR(M) *and* ILR?

I still had to go through the same questions _you're_ being asked, have had to provide proof that my husband earns >£18.6k/year, has a place big enough for him and I to live *and* I've had to pay £1000+ each time I applied for a visa, just for the right to be questioned about everything that you're being asked for £55.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

Thank you respected members ,
my complain is not only about the questions they asked. of course they can ask as many question as they like and for six months I was following their every and each instruction. I already sent them tons of paperwork to prove the marriage is genuine. they have all the papers they requested. my concern is about the six months time frame, they had six months to investigate the case. if they want us to follow the eu regulation then why don't they follow the EU regulation? its clearly written in regulation that every application should be decided in that time frame. my concern is not about the interview ,I am happy to attend the interview, actually I am even happy to go for interview because I will have the chance to explain everything in person. all I am saying is HO can easily decide the case in six months , they can request more evidence, interview people or even home visit but it has to be within that six months period. they cant just hold on to the documents for 5 months doing nothing and start looking into it in the last minute. they also have to understand that people who applied for extension have other important things to do in life. all I am saying is if they promise, it will be done in six months in COA letter then deliver it. don't promise if you cant deliver.
Xmas is near people have to go visit their family. everyone wants to have a clear head and enjoy the festival. whatever the outcome they should decide every application in that six months time frame. and my other complain is about the call centre staff. at least they should if proper information to people but they themselves don't have a clue. they just read the same thing which is on the HO website. hope it will be sorted soon and mny thanks for your suggestion and advice. only good thing happened on this process is I found expatforum.com. god bless you all.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Home Office frequently extend the 6-month limit laid down by EU. All they do is to show regret and that's it. There is no sanction, you can't force their hands. You can complain to EU, such as SOLVIT Commission at Work - Enquiries and complaints about application of Union law - European Commission, but don't expect any quick or positive resolution. Best thing you can do is to contact your MP - at least you get some answers from Home Office.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

hello everyone ,
my application for eea4 is now over six months and no response from home office. I contacted them this morning and I received the two different answers. first time the call centre staff said my application is under consideration stage and no decision has been made and I called the second time to explain that it has already been six months and why my application is still pending? To my surprise the customer service lady from home office said, if the application is already six months then the application is most likely to be refused and its in the queue to be send out so I should not call home office for the outcome of the application. Now, my question to respected gurus and forum member is , if the application is not decided by six months, does that mean the application is refused as the lady said? if it is to be refused than isn't it better to refuse early within six months so the applicant can follow the necessary step. I am very annoyed by the HO answer and bit worried. any suggestions please


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

No point guessing as to whether it's refused or not.

You have been told the application is still under deliberation. 

As said previously your immigration history is less than straightforward.


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

thank you all respected gurus and form members, special thanks to Joppa. I finally got my PR approved and is valid for ten years. I am really happy and worried at the same time. I mentioned in my previous post that I didn't declare my 4 drunk and disorderly convictions( court) at the time of PR application because I thought I didn't have to declare the spent conviction and luckily my PR got approved. my last conviction was in Dec 2012
My wife has a dual citizenship and holds the British citizenship as well so now according to HO rules I can apply for British citizenship without having to wait another year. I am in the process of submitting the application and now I am worried that the issues of not declaring the past conviction on my PR application will come up as this time I am going to declare the conviction in full. I am very worried that they will find out and revoke my PR as that will come under deception. do you think it is better to write a letter to HO and explain the situation before I lodge BC application. Any suggestion will be highly appreciated.
I have to thank this fantastic forum and people who saved me lot of money and time on my previous application process. once again thank you Joppa and everyone.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

4 drunk and disorderly convictions which you conveniently did not disclose !!


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

yes sir, it was drunk and disorderedly not drink driving and all of them were in Dec near x mas time from 2008 to 2012. I have stopped drinking and is teetotal since my last conviction in 2012. I didn't declare it because I genuinely thought I don't have to declare the spent conviction and now I am willing to declare it and face the consequences. I need good, advice and suggestion thank you.:fingerscrossed:


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

any advice, suggestion gurus and members


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

any suggestion please


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## kebonk (Oct 31, 2015)

I am surprised there is no suggestions or advice from anyone this time. I think I really upset people by not declaring my past criminal convictions in my PR application. I am hoping for good advice from gurus and form members. Many thanks in advance.


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