# Proof of income/ Savings for long stay visa



## peppinyourstep

After searching this lovely forum I havent found the exact answer to my question
so I thought I would open a new thread.
I will be applying this summer for a long stay visa in France.
I work freelance/ independent contractor for a company in the usa.
My earnings are usually between $5,000 and $9,000 a month.
But will plan to reduce my income (to stay in the tax bracket under 75k euros)

However I only have $25,000 in savings!!
I am honestly terrified to apply for the long stay visa for my husband and I .
I am so worried my savings amount wont be enough (its very expensive where i live and hard to save)
I have no family or friends who would sign on to back me up on my visa.

Has any couple gotten approval for a long stay visa with similar earnings/ savings?
I already have my french tax lawyer but he doesnt know much about this process.

I am even considering hiring a firm in paris to do my immigration documents, but
they all seem to want to charge $300 just to put together a contract to offer their services not even to answer my questions. Just seems like a scam.
As I start to get ready for submitting my visa this summer, I am just so worried.

Any feedback on others who have been approved, how much did you get approved with savings / monthly earnings?
I know every case is different , but would love to hear some numbers who have been approved or rejected.


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## peppinyourstep

i should add all amounts are in US dollars


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## dpdapper

What type of visa are you applying for? It sounds like you are seeking a visitor visa as opposed to a visa that would allow you work in France. You are “working in France” even if you are working remotely for a US company. And if you use your freelance income to show adequate resources for a visitor visa that will suggest that you need to work while in France, which you can’t do on a visitor visa.

OTOH, if you are seeking a visa that will allow you to work in France, there are specific requirements for such visas. I suggest you start with the visa wizard Do you need a visa ? | France-Visas.gouv.fr


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## peppinyourstep

Yes i reviewed the online resource a few times. I was wanting to apply for the tourist long stay visa since I wont be working in france for any french clients. I would be working for a usa based company online as a independent contractor.
So As long as my clients are not french, and i am not working for a french firm it should be fine as far as I have read?


I am considering hiring an immigration lawyer, I just opened another thread regarding that, perhaps i should move that thread back to this post. But I think its a different conversation.


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## dpdapper

chilipepinyourstep said:


> So As long as my clients are not french, and i am not working for a french firm it should be fine as far as I have read?


As part of your application for a visitor visa you will be asked to certify that you will not work while in France. And, as I said, if you are in France and working—even if for a US company or clients—you are “working in France.”

While you can choose to do so “under the table” as it were—no one is likely to be any wiser if payment for your services goes directly into a US account—if in your visa application you intend to rely on that income, that raises the question to the French authorities of how you will earn that income while you are in France.


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## Bevdeforges

To be honest, your chances of getting a long-stay visa will be much, much better if you can show regular income rather than "savings." There is also the matter of someone of "working age" applying for what is, in effect, a "tourist visa" which requires that you swear you won't work while in France.

If you are planning to move to France for a limited period of time - say, a single year or maybe two - you'd do much better to have a specific reason to give for wanting to live in France for that time. That's how it works for, say, university professors taking a sabbatical year in France. But your argument about only working for US clients is no good - there is what is sometimes referred to as the "butt rule" - wherever you park your butt while working is where you are considered to be working. If, on the other hand, you were moving to France because your spouse had taken a job here (or was being transferred by his/her employer), then chances are you could continue to work remotely for a time, more or less under the table, but at least someone in the family is properly enrolled in the tax and social insurance system.


chilipepinyourstep said:


> But will plan to reduce my income (to stay in the tax bracket under 75k euros)


Take a look at the English language document (referenced in the sticky messages at the top of the forum listing) to see that French taxes aren't that easy to calculate in that manner. (And if you are declaring employment income while resident in France, it will just flag the fact that you are violating the terms of your visa/residence permit and not properly enrolled in the system for social insurances.)

I can also warn you off using an immigration attorney. The system is set up to be fairly straight forward and it can be the case that if you're using an attorney in all this, it will raise suspicions that you're out to game the system (which, in effect, is what you're doing since the visitor visa does not permit you to work in France - no matter where your employer is located, nor where your "customers" are, nor where or how you're being paid).


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## peppinyourstep

Bevdeforges said:


> To be honest, your chances of getting a long-stay visa will be much, much better if you can show regular income rather than "savings." There is also the matter of someone of "working age" applying for what is, in effect, a "tourist visa" which requires that you swear you won't work while in France.
> 
> If you are planning to move to France for a limited period of time - say, a single year or maybe two - you'd do much better to have a specific reason to give for wanting to live in France for that time. That's how it works for, say, university professors taking a sabbatical year in France. But your argument about only working for US clients is no good - there is what is sometimes referred to as the "butt rule" - wherever you park your butt while working is where you are considered to be working. If, on the other hand, you were moving to France because your spouse had taken a job here (or was being transferred by his/her employer), then chances are you could continue to work remotely for a time, more or less under the table, but at least someone in the family is properly enrolled in the tax and social insurance system.
> 
> Take a look at the English language document (referenced in the sticky messages at the top of the forum listing) to see that French taxes aren't that easy to calculate in that manner. (And if you are declaring employment income while resident in France, it will just flag the fact that you are violating the terms of your visa/residence permit and not properly enrolled in the system for social insurances.)
> 
> I can also warn you off using an immigration attorney. The system is set up to be fairly straight forward and it can be the case that if you're using an attorney in all this, it will raise suspicions that you're out to game the system (which, in effect, is what you're doing since the visitor visa does not permit you to work in France - no matter where your employer is located, nor where your "customers" are, nor where or how you're being paid).


Bev , Firstly and foremost thank you for taking the time to answer my question. You seem very kind and wise.
from the bottom of my heart, thank you. 

I did speak to a tax lawyer and i have arranged and reviewed the tax rules and I realize that i will be paying into the system and taxes. so I have no plans of avoiding that. I am wanting/ hoping to pay into the french system, that is why i have already consulted with the tax lawyer, arranged my apartment , have everything ready for my long term relocation.

to be honest I am just confused on the type of visa I should apply for , and to be even more honest I just cant imagine france giving a foot model from only fans type online platform an entrepreneur visa. I mean i know the french are open minded but... 
But i mean on the other hand I am an entrepreneur and I have created a stable good income that my lawyer is confident the french gov will be happy to tax me at 40%.

But you are right, I can qualify based on my income.
my plan is to work extra hard the 3 months before i leave so i can increase my earnings for the visa (from 7k the usual to maybe 10k if possible ) so i look better on paper. 

I just dont see how my profession can transfer into a visa. And I cant imagine them approving me on the basis of that.
For those reasons alone I felt compelled to apply for the tourist visa and let me lawyer handle the taxes for me.
on paper i file taxes as online marketing to the usa gov. so maybe I wont need to get into too much detail. But with the entrepreneur visa, seems they are going to want a LOT of details. OMG. that is where i get well.. fearful. 

My plan is to stay in france long term. I am fluent and ive lived /study abroad ect ect in france for most of my life (total time maybe 5 years of my life off and on in france) so i know what I am getting myself into.


I just need the visa.

And i agree about the lawyer for immigration. seems a bit off the reply i received from the firm in Paris.


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## Bevdeforges

chilipepinyourstep said:


> And i agree about the lawyer for immigration. seems a bit off the reply i received from the firm in Paris.


Maybe it would keep the lawyer "honest" if you work out a deal where he only gets paid for his services if and when you get the visa. (Though that's not legal in France.) 

I think you'll run into problems if you go for the visitor visa and then wind up working from France as you're describing it. It might just be better to go for the Passeport Talent with the "online marketing" - and then look to broaden your portfolio to perhaps include a few French or other European clients when you get here and get set up. If you have a business plan like that, you get to take advantage of your fluency in French and your prior experience here. Bill back your work to your US "employer" but look to take on some European/French clients on your own. (Bolsters your case that you're actually an independent business and demonstrates your "interest" in France.) Also, look into the services available through the CCI in whatever area you are looking to move to. Much cheaper than Paris-based accountants and lawyers and they can guide you through your options regarding what sort of business entity to set up. (There are a multitude of options to choose among.) They also have a deal that is tax deductible if you use one of their accounting agencies in the early years of your business. And, if you're already in contact with a CCI regarding your business in France, it looks good on your visa application. (Shows you know what you're doing - to a greater extent than someone who is just searching for "some way" to get to France.)


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## peppinyourstep

Bevdeforges said:


> Maybe it would keep the lawyer "honest" if you work out a deal where he only gets paid for his services if and when you get the visa. (Though that's not legal in France.)
> 
> I think you'll run into problems if you go for the visitor visa and then wind up working from France as you're describing it. It might just be better to go for the Passeport Talent with the "online marketing" - and then look to broaden your portfolio to perhaps include a few French or other European clients when you get here and get set up. If you have a business plan like that, you get to take advantage of your fluency in French and your prior experience here. Bill back your work to your US "employer" but look to take on some European/French clients on your own. (Bolsters your case that you're actually an independent business and demonstrates your "interest" in France.) Also, look into the services available through the CCI in whatever area you are looking to move to. Much cheaper than Paris-based accountants and lawyers and they can guide you through your options regarding what sort of business entity to set up. (There are a multitude of options to choose among.) They also have a deal that is tax deductible if you use one of their accounting agencies in the early years of your business. And, if you're already in contact with a CCI regarding your business in France, it looks good on your visa application. (Shows you know what you're doing - to a greater extent than someone who is just searching for "some way" to get to France.)


hi bev ! i just wanted to follow up with you to let you and the forum know that I will be meeting with a lawyer to help me find the right visa type . "


> By the end of the consultation we will have determined exactly which visa you are eligible for and what you will need to do to successfully apply for it.
> After the consultation, it will be up to you to decide if you would like to use my services to take care of the entire application process for you or if you would prefer to complete the process yourself.
Click to expand...

Ill post a follow up on the forum here, in hopes that it can help others in a similar situation to mine.


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