# Is US Social Security Disability Taxable?



## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

I have been thinking of retiring in Italy or France. I have been NOT thinking Italy due to i have heard that US Social Security Disability is taxed in Italy. Does anyone know if this is true?

I am a usa only citizen


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## tomandmaje (Sep 26, 2019)

Romuva80 said:


> I have been thinking of retiring in Italy or France. I have been NOT thinking Italy due to i have heard that US Social Security Disability is taxed in Italy. Does anyone know if this is true?
> 
> I am a usa only citizen


No, it is not taxable because of a treaty. No US government pensions are taxed in Italy. 

Maje


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

tomandmaje said:


> No, it is not taxable because of a treaty. No US government pensions are taxed in Italy.
> 
> Maje


With one exception that may or may not apply. Italy does tax US SS benefits for Italian residents who are also Italian citizens. (And in that case, the US does not tax those SS benefits.) The IRS publication on Social Security benefits has a few more details on this.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Oy

https://it.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/irs/

Military pensions and other civil service type pensions are taxed in the country earned.


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

I do not live in Italy so i do not know so that is why i asked. But from what i have read and been told by Italy, USA Social Security Disability IS taxable in Italy!


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## tomandmaje (Sep 26, 2019)

Romuva80 said:


> I do not live in Italy so i do not know so that is why i asked. But from what i have read and been told by Italy, USA Social Security Disability IS taxable in Italy!


It is not. It is taxed in France.

Maje


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

*Really?*



tomandmaje said:


> It is not. It is taxed in France.
> 
> Maje



I have read the EXACT OPPOSITE! 

What i have read and been told, France DOES NOT tax USA Social Security Disability for USA citizens. And that Italy does!

Please tell me where you heard the France DOES?

Please tell me where you read the Italy DOES NOT?

I am not doubting you, but i have read the total reverse!


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## tomandmaje (Sep 26, 2019)

These and some other sites are my sources. 

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/guides/us-tax-guide-for-retirees.html

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/france/us-tax-preparation-in-france.html

Maje


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

Reading what you sent about France, it seems to say that Social Security, well USA Social Security and USA Social Security Disability is NOT taxable income in France.


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

The link about Italy says the US will not tax a person's income in those countries. But it does NOT speak of the country itself. 

From what i read, and also what i have been told by embassies, US does NOT tax Social Security Disability in France or Italy or other EU counties i have looked into. 

But certain EU countries do tax this income. 

From what i have read and been told by Italy they DO tax this income. France does not. I read about Spain i do not recall but i think Spain does not tax this either. Several other EU countries I know do not. 

I do not live in Italy or France so i do not know this for sure either way, when I apply to live i will know more directly. But that is why i am asking as I have read what i said. But I am just going on what embassies have told me but that was like 2015 so maybe things have changed?

I think Italy embassy told me it was like 10% on SSD, i do not recall exactly but something like that.


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## tomandmaje (Sep 26, 2019)

Romuva80 said:


> Reading what you sent about France, it seems to say that Social Security, well USA Social Security and USA Social Security Disability is NOT taxable income in France.


This is the part that makes me believe that France does or can tax SSD.

U.S. Social Security Benefits

U.S. Social Security benefits received by US citizens and green card holders residing in France are taxable in the United States. France also has the right to impose tax on that income if the recipient is French permanent resident.

Maje


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

But that is the point of these forums i feel to talk to real people!


If you are living in Italy and are on USA Social Security Disability and you do NOT have to pay tax on this income please share your experience about this! I am no doubting anyone just curious to know these things!


When we moved to Hungary i had someone from a so called immigration company that "helps Americans" move to Hungary etc tell me info that was totally not true and not correct with Hungary rules! He ran a company and basically said Hungary does NOT have residence permits for retiree Americans which simply was not true!


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## tomandmaje (Sep 26, 2019)

Moving to different countries can be interesting. We won't move to Italy for almost another three years, but I believe in doing lots of research.

Maje


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

" France also has the right to impose tax on that income if the recipient is French permanent resident."

French permanent residence takes like 5 years i think


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It all depends on the tax treaty in effect with the US. 

Some tax treaties stipulate that the US will tax US SS benefits. Others stipulate that the country of residence taxes US SS benefits. For Italy, the US taxes SS benefits except for Italian residents who are also Italian citizens.

What gets confusing, however, is that many countries still require you to declare your worldwide income, including government pensions like US SS, even if the benefits aren't taxed, or are subject to credits so as to avoid double taxation.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

*Sticky Questions*

We should have "STICKY" posts summarizing the "truth" on taxation and health care.

First of course we have to decide what the "truth" is.

:flypig:


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

Tom and Maje

Yes it is good to do research before one move and also simply to talk to official sources along with hearing from others. 

I have been living in Hungary for about 5 years and i hear many people speak of things in regards to moving to EU countries and Hungary in particular that are simply not true. 

Many Americans at least I have found do not really live in Europe but give advice on these things. Visiting is not living in a place.


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## Romuva80 (Apr 23, 2018)

What is the meaning of a "sticky" post? I do not understand what this means?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> It all depends on the tax treaty in effect with the US.
> 
> Some tax treaties stipulate that the US will tax US SS benefits. Others stipulate that the country of residence taxes US SS benefits. For Italy, the US taxes SS benefits except for Italian residents who are also Italian citizens.
> 
> .



The US embassy IRS page I posted is fairly clear.

In all cases Italy taxes. What varies is if the US taxes. If the US does tax then Italy provides a credit equal to the US tax. 

Italian citizens not only aren't taxed by the US but don't even have to report to the US.


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## GeordieBorn (Jul 15, 2016)

It always amazes me when things get heated over something like tax! The government official so called experts don’t always (often don’t) get it right, so we are never going to get everything right on here. The link Nick give to the IRS is the nearest and clearest you can get. But the real big problems will arise if you are in Italy and that knock comes on your door! I don’t think a “sticky” (the permanent posts in blue in the posts listings) would help much here…


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