# Canadian PR



## sachin0109 (Dec 26, 2015)

For Canadian PR, the cut-off is around 460 points but I have 363 points in the Canadian CRS express entry system. 
Are the rules for Canadian PR expected to change in 2016 ?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

In a word, No.

The program was set up in such a way so as to enable suitably qualified applicants ("suitability qualified" as established by Citizenship and Immigration Canada) easier access to come to Canada. That said, the structure of the program is continuous intake, meaning that anyone can join the pool at any time and if they have a high enough CRS score, they can qualify for an ITA sooner than they would have under the old "Federal Skilled Worker Program" that had annual quotas that often filled up quite quickly with applicants who may not have been deemed suitable to come to Canada.

Unless you can get a job offer or improve your CRS rank, I wouldn't hold out much hope of your current score qualifying any time soon. The program has been active for a year now and the lowest CRS score drawn that I've seen is 450. If it hasn't broken 450 by now, it's not likely to break that benchmark anywhere in the near future, if ever.

Sorry to disappoint.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

sachin0109 said:


> For Canadian PR, the cut-off is around 460 points but I have 363 points in the Canadian CRS express entry system.
> Are the rules for Canadian PR expected to change in 2016 ?


No, and even if they did they wouldn't drop by 100 points.


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## sachin0109 (Dec 26, 2015)

Thank you for your reply guys.

Well, i just discovered that my score is 382 instead. I have missed the option of two post secondary education qualifications which fetch me another 19 points in the Express entry CRS.

Well i have just improved my My IELTS score to L7, R7.5, W7, S7.5 and Overall 7.5 which i think is a decent score but still is not much beneficial. 

Any hope or any way to make it to Canada with this score ?

Also, I have heard that the new government is a little liberal and some new rules are expected very soon.

Thanks & Best Regards
Sachin Batra


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

As stated before, it's not likely that anything lower than 450 will get you an ITA. 

Also, the government may be "more liberal," but that likely _won't_ make Express Entry any easier... they _might_ relax the minimum benchmark CRS slightly, but I would be _shocked_ if it went anywhere near 400, let alone going sub-400... they might relax the points distribution for the applicant's age and or possibly work experience, but I _cannot_ see them loosening up the points as far as IELTS/CELPIP/TEF scores go... one must be able to demonstrate a minimum standard of English (or French) language ability to survive in Canada day-to-day, so it would be counter-productive to ease up on the language requirement.

You must also remember that the Express Entry program was set up in such a way so as to enable suitably qualified applicants ("suitability qualified" as established by Citizenship and Immigration Canada) easier access to come to Canada and they have more or less determined that (based on historical data) anything <450 doesn't meet their criteria.


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## Aby Baby (Jan 13, 2016)

*CRS Dilemma*

Hey Westcoastcanadiangirl,

My CRS is 427 . IELTS 8.5 (CLB 10). What are my chances in 2016?

Thanks


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Aby Baby said:


> Hey Westcoastcanadiangirl,
> 
> My CRS is 427 . IELTS 8.5 (CLB 10). What are my chances in 2016?
> 
> Thanks


As stated _twice_ before, if your CRS rank is <450, it's highly _unlikely_ that you will qualify to receive an ITA. 

Express Entry has been active for a year now, and as it is _continuous intake_, it's not likely to break the sub-450 CRS mark any time soon, as there will _always_ be enough candidates in the pool with higher-than-the-minimum CRS scores to fill in all of the spots allocated to the Express Entry program (my husband's rank would be well above the 450 mark, if he ever chose to enter the pool, but he chooses not to at this time). 

The government of Canada is under _no_ obligation to anyone to lower the minimum qualifying CRS rank, and can just as easily _increase_ the minimum and permanently keep it higher as they could consider lowering it.

Your only "quick fix" option(s) is/are to either secure a _valid_ job offer or proof of a Provincial Nomination.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

sachin0109 said:


> Thank you for your reply guys.
> 
> Well, i just discovered that my score is 382 instead.



That is still nowhere close to enough points. And no, the bottom limit will not drop that low.





> Any hope or any way to make it to Canada with this score ?



No.





> Also, I have heard that the new government is a little liberal and some new rules are expected very soon.



Nobody knows if they will bring in new rules or what those will be.

As it stands, you are nowhere near qualified to come here and it seems pointless to pursue something that has absolutely no chance of happening.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

Aby Baby said:


> Hey Westcoastcanadiangirl,
> 
> My CRS is 427 . IELTS 8.5 (CLB 10). What are my chances in 2016?
> 
> Thanks




Other than to point out that the lowest score thus far has been 450, how the hell do you expect anyone here to answer that?


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## sachin0109 (Dec 26, 2015)

Hi West Coast Girl

I have seen you quite actively involved on this forum and replying various queries on immigration score and process etc. Its really nice to see you helping various people on providing the information.

I am writing to know about that are you a certified immigration adviser or agent etc. I am primarily asking to seek your help on the immigration & resettling thing ?

Thanks & Best Regards
Sachin


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm not an immigration adviser or agent... rather I'm someone who loves to travel and who has been through "the immigration process," albeit for immigration to the United Kingdom, as the spouse of a British Citizen, so I know what it's like to have to spend a small fortune in visa fees before having to hurry up and wait while someone in an office somewhere looks at your paperwork and makes a decision that will have a lasting impact on your future life.

I'd love to bring my husband to Canada to live but even for Canadian citizens, the process can be quite long (I'm looking at over 2 years to get him here from the UK) and very difficult (I have to submit a "sponsor's application" and first have it approved before my husband can submit his), so we remain in the UK, where the process has been so much faster: when I first applied to go to the UK as a Fiancée in 2012, my visa was approved in less than 3 weeks, and while I had to take out two further visas before I was granted permanent residency, it only took 2 years for that to be granted [the waiting period is now 5 years to PR]... I am now just waiting for my citizenship application to be considered.

I like trying to help people through the immigration process, but do so only on the understanding that I _am *not*_ an immigration advisor/agent nor do I have any connection to Citizenship and Immigration Canada and as such, I only give my _opinion_ on scenarios that are presented here at Expat Forum and as they are only opinions, they _should *not*_ be construed as immigration law. 

If you are looking for a legal opinion, I would direct you to this CIC website for guidance on how to find an authorized (qualified) agent.


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## sachin0109 (Dec 26, 2015)

MMhhnn.
It was nice to talk to you. 
Thanks & All the best.

Regards
Sachin


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## pahwashish (May 19, 2014)

*Cut Off for Express Entry*



sachin0109 said:


> For Canadian PR, the cut-off is around 460 points but I have 363 points in the Canadian CRS express entry system.
> Are the rules for Canadian PR expected to change in 2016 ?


Hey Buddy,
I am currently in india and was seeking an answer to the same question, but after reading the answers from another member , i am wondering if most of the applications from india fetch less than 400 points, how many do actually gonna really land in Canada? it's like a game of lottery. Or is there any other information you can guide me with?
Looking forward.
Thanks.
AP


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

pahwashish said:


> Hey Buddy,
> I am currently in india and was seeking an answer to the same question, but after reading the answers from another member , i am wondering if most of the applications from india fetch less than 400 points, how many do actually gonna really land in Canada? it's like a game of lottery. Or is there any other information you can guide me with?
> Looking forward.
> Thanks.
> AP



No, it is not like a lottery. If you have the qualifications to earn enough points you will get in. If you do not have enough points it is incumbent upon you to improve yourself so that you do have enough points. Why should we accept people into this country who are not qualified to be here?


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## pahwashish (May 19, 2014)

*Thanks for your feedback*



colchar said:


> No, it is not like a lottery. If you have the qualifications to earn enough points you will get in. If you do not have enough points it is incumbent upon you to improve yourself so that you do have enough points. Why should we accept people into this country who are not qualified to be here?


Hey,
Thanks for your feedback.

I am currently working as a General Manager with one of the US based digital company. I have been in a supervisor role for over 8 years. Have completed a Graduate Degree from the University of Delhi and also hold a Post Graduate Diploma in Business Management. My IELTS score is 7. 
I think i will definitely be able to add value to the nation. But, despite all my credentials, my score is less than 450. On the other hand, there are already people settled in Canada, who got there before Express Entry was introduced, but do not possess equivalent skills/work experience.
That's why it seems a bit of an unfair evaluating process.

Best..
AP


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

pahwashish said:


> Hey,
> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> I am currently working as a General Manager with one of the US based digital company. I have been in a supervisor role for over 8 years. Have completed a Graduate Degree from the University of Delhi and also hold a Post Graduate Diploma in Business Management. My IELTS score is 7.
> ...


How can you call it "... an unfair evaluating process." when, by your own admission, the people you are resentful of _"...settled in Canada ...before Express Entry was introduced..."_?

The people who are already here applied under rule set _n_, which was in place on the day that they applied, while you are trying to apply under rule set _x_, which is a completely different set of rules. That's like trying to compare apples to oranges... you just cannot do it.

Unfortunately for you, rule set _n_ had a far more lax set of requirements than rule set _x_ does, but _n_ were the rules that were in place at the time that the people who are now settled in Canada applied to come to Canada and CIC judged them against those rules and deemed those applicants to be suitable to come to Canada.


Lets pretend that CIC announces that effective 01 July the minimum qualification score to apply for the Express Entry FSW program goes from 67 to 80 and on 01 August someone who is a senior executive at a major US company for 15 years, has an Engineering degree from MIT _*and*_ an MBA from Oxford and an IELTS score of 9 somehow could only achieve a qualification score of 75 and couldn't qualify for Express Entry and said that "... there are people in the pool with less work experience and lower educational qualifications than I have and an certainly cannot speak/read/write in English as well as I can who qualified for Express Entry before the qualifying score was increased... I _know_ that I can be a great asset to Canada but, despite _my_ credentials, my pre-qualification score is only 75 and I don't qualify for Express Entry, yet there are people in the pool who do not possess equivalent education qualifications and English language ability or work experience... it seems unfair to me that they're in and I'm not."

Would _you_, Pawashish, be willing to either have your preliminary evaluation re-evaluated to the higher standard or be willing to withdraw your EE profile altogether just because the rules have changed and someone, who has better qualifications and experience than you, isn't able to qualify comes along after the rules have changed and feels that it's unfair that the rules have gotten even stricter yet there are people with lower qualifications in the pool? 

You and I both know that you wouldn't be willing to do either of those things because you qualified to enter the pool _according to the standards established when_ you _applied_ and it wouldn't be fair to you to have to be re-evaluated just because the rules change. The same goes for the people in Canada towards whom _you_ are resentful towards... they applied according to the rules in place _before_ the implementation of Express Entry and they received permission to go to Canada and it wouldn't be fair to them to expect them to have to qualify to a standard that _wasn't_ in place on the date that they applied. It isn't their fault that the CIC made the Express Entry process a lot more strict than the old FSW program, nor can you resentful towards them for having applied in time for the 2014 FSW program and you did not, especially seeing as Express Entry had already long since been up and started by the time you decided to apply and fair warning had been issued in 2014 as to when it would be up and running.

Immigration rules change all the time, and the changes can be toughening up or easing of the rules, so this CIC change is nothing personal against you... change happens. 5 days after I first applied to go to the UK, the immigration rules changed to a stricter standard (5 years to permanent residency instead of 3, an minimum annual income threshold requirement when previously there was none and a few other changes). Since I applied for initial entry clearance to go to the UK before the changes came in, I was exempt from the changes and I can tell you that I would be screaming bloody murder and getting my now husband to give an earful to his MP to protest if it was suddenly decided that in spite of the fact that I had submitted my application (including payment of the visa fee) before the date that the changes took place I would be held to the tougher standard... it would be wrong of the UK government to retroactively impose the rules changes to before the date of implementation without prior notice.

I am sorry that you are having difficulty with your CRS ranking and achieving your dream of coming to Canada. As stated before, your only viable options are to either get a _valid_ job offer or a Provincial Nomination.


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## pahwashish (May 19, 2014)

*Can't agree more than this *



WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> How can you call it "... an unfair evaluating process." when, by your own admission, the people you are resentful of _"...settled in Canada ...before Express Entry was introduced..."_?
> 
> The people who are already here applied under rule set _n_, which was in place on the day that they applied, while you are trying to apply under rule set _x_, which is a completely different set of rules. That's like trying to compare apples to oranges... you just cannot do it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking time out again today. I can't agree with you more on this. You are correct, rules do change and will keep on changing.
Unfortunately, finding a suitable job sitting in india is not happening, i might have to seek a nomination from a province. By the way, my friends out there in Canada, do not have hopes for me on PNP as well, coz according to them, it never shows up. Yet, i am giving it a try 

It will be good connecting with you again sometime for more insights may be.
Cheers!
AP


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

pahwashish said:


> Hey,
> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> I am currently working as a General Manager with one of the US based digital company. I have been in a supervisor role for over 8 years. Have completed a Graduate Degree from the University of Delhi and also hold a Post Graduate Diploma in Business Management. My IELTS score is 7.
> ...



I am not sure how much value you would add since your qualifications are a dime a dozen here - you don't offer anything we don't already have in abundance. I have a B.A., a Master's, a post-graduate diploma, and several years of work experience in supervisory roles. I am hardly unique, nor would you be. So again, you don't offer us anything that we don't already have in abundance.

And the fact that people used to get in without similar qualification levels does not make it unfair, it simply means that we finally had a government that imposed standards as to who would be accepted. Since that government was democratically elected, they has the right (many would say the duty) to make those changes. Coming here is a privilege, not a right, and our government has the right to make any changes it wants at any time.

The fact that you would have been accepted under the old system but not under the new system does not make it unfair, it simply means that some standards have finally been imposed and if you want to come here it is incumbent upon you to do whatever it takes to exceed the minimum criteria for entry.


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