# Visa 189 Education and Work Experience clarification



## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi All,

I am writing this blog post to get few things clarified before I apply for Visa 189.

1. I have done my Bachelor Degree in English Hons, after that I did some software certification and joined an organisation in 2008 itself. While working I joined MCA(Distance learning) 3 years course and finished in 2011. Therefore, I was doing two things simultaneously. So how many points I can gain in this scenario.

2. I have total 6 years of work experience from 2008 till present. Based on above point do I fall under 5+ years of experience where I can gain 10 points or under 3-5 years band where I can gain 5 points or I cannot apply for this??


I would really appreciate for prompt reply.

Regards,
Sayed


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Sayed, 

what ANZSCO code do you plan to nominate? I'm assuming you are going for an ICT (software developer, tester, etc.) code, for which the relevant assessing authority is the Australian Computer Society (ACS). 

*Scenario 1*
Six years of closely relevant work experience can _substitute_ for a formal degree in ICT, if you have a bachelor degree in another area (e.g. English). This pathway is called "Recognition of Prior Learning". Note that you won't be able to claim points for the 6 years.

*Scenario 2*
Some vendor certifications are accepted as equivalent to a diploma. With five years of relevant work experience post-diploma, ACS deems you "skilled". Note that the 5 years are "deducted", so you cannot claim points for them. For 1 year of overseas experience you won't get any points, the bar is 3 years. 

*Scenario 3*
An ICT bachelor degree with a major in ICT plus 2 years of overseas work experience post-graduation also make you skilled. Once again, you cannot claim points for these 2 years. 

If all three scenarios apply to you, you will get the most favourable (= earliest) date of the three. Note that ACS only considers jobs with 20+hrs/week. You can find more details about the criteria and the process in the Summary of Criteria and the ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines. Unfortunately, it looks like you might end up with zero work experience points...


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Firstly I would like to thank you for prompt reply.

Please can you clarify one more thing, according to Scenario 3 - I have completed my Master's in Computer in 2011 February but from distance learning which consists of 3 year of education started from 2008 to 2011 February and I have started full time work(40 per week) in 2008 till present. So In this scenario also I will not gain any point?

Eagerly waiting for your reply.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Sayed, 

DIBP will only consider work experience after the ACS "skilled date", which will be printed on your assessment letter. Scenario 1 and 2 leave you with zero or one year of relevant experience (= best case). In scenario 3, the assessor usually deducts two year post-bachelor (or higher) graduation in an ICT degree, which would leave you with 1-2 years (Feb 2013 to EOI invitation date) and thus also zero points. 

ACS _sometimes_ considers work parallel to or prior to graduation, but I would not count on it. If we consider the worst case scenario (= zero points for work experience), how would that affect your overall score? Can you still reach 60 (or 55 for a 190 visa), for example through a very high IELTS score, partner points etc? If yes, prepare your documents and go for ACS assessment. 

Good luck, 
Monika


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks Monica for quick and relevant response.

I would like to ask one more favor, If you can help me on this.
I have done dual degree and I finished MSC-IT in 2009 September and MCA in 2011 but again my Bachelor degree was non relevant to my job(Software Developer). However, situation is the same that I have started job in 2008, as you mentioned above ACS will count my experience only after when I have finished the relevant degree which is 2009 September. So in this situation how many points I can gain against my work experience?

1. How many work experience points I can gain after 2009(MSC-IT) degree??
2. MSC-IT degree is valid in australia??

I would highly appreciate your prompt reply.

Regards,
Sayed


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Please can someone provide their fruitfull insight on above question


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Sayed Hussain, 

refer to the ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines for Applicants on page 9. Most ICT job codes require you to have skill level 1 (= bachelor degree or higher OR heaps of work experience). To quote: 



> A post graduate qualification (Graduate Diploma or *Masters*) that do not require a Bachelor with an ICT major for entry into the course, must have:
> A minimum of 3 semesters or at least *1.5 years of full-time study*
> At least 2 semesters or *1 year of full-time equivalent ICT content*
> A minimum of 12 units or subjects (overseas degrees may contain less units or subjects)
> ...


ACS deducts a minimum of two years after graduation if you only have non-Australian qualifications.


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks for reply

I have checked ACS guidelines and have completed MSC-IT(2 yr) distance education consist of 4 semester which is completed in 2009, as ACS deducts 2 year after degree in that scenario my experience will be counted from 2011 only.

So should I go for ACS evaluation as I have 3 years of experience 2011 - 2014(Present) ??
My points are - 
Age - 30
Degree - 15
IELTS -10(Expecting)
Work Experience - 5

Total 60

Please clarify one more thing should I go for ACS evaluation before IELTS or after IELTS?
My IELTS examination is on Dec 13

I would highly appreciate for your prompt reply


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Sayed,

Point 1- The Distance learning program is not equivalent to AQF major. 
Point 2- The B.A degree is not closely related to your occupation.
Point 3- Be specific about the "certification". Some certifications are recognized by ACS. 

To summarize, please come up with the certification code and go through the "ACS guidelines for applicants " for more clarity. I think in case your certification is not recognized, you cannot claim the full points for Education(15 points as you have mentioned).

Come up with specifics and let's see what're the points you'd likely to get!! 

All the very best


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks a ton for quick reply,

However, In ACS guideline its nowhere written that Distance Education is not valid as far as I know Distance Education is valid if it is completed in same duration as compare to regular. 

Please can you suggest any link where I can find it out that Distance Education is not valid or equivalent.


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## dba_boy (Oct 28, 2013)

distance learning program is very much valid provided its done from a recognized university. I personally new people who have completed their graduation from IGNOU and have got +ve assessment. so don't be disheartened.

Now regarding how many years of exp they might deduct is something I cannot comment on. they will definitely deduct 2 years for offshore applicant which is certain.


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks a lot,

My distance education is from PTU and its UGC approved university. 
I also have seen post on Expactforum that its valid 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au.../165224-spouse-point-claim-qualification.html

Should I go for ACS evaluation before IELTS or after IELTS?

I would appreciate your prompt replyt


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## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

IELTS is not required for ACS assessment. Schedule your IELTS exam and do ACS in the meantime.


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## dba_boy (Oct 28, 2013)

Please first apply for ACE .. they take 3 months to give the results and in the mean time you can prepare and give your IELTS. 

IELTS will be your biggest challenge prior to visa filing. so concentrate on that after you apply for ACS. my suggestion, do not blindly rely on the reply that you get on the forum. just use it as a guide or starting point and do your own research on the topic or to get your doubts clarified.

more than half the people who give their advice do not know the process or have not been in your position/situation (my personal experience) so they tend to misguide you thus creating even more confusion and get some new doubts too . have faith in yourself and the almighty and keep all your documents ready and you shall have your grant in less than 9 months. all the very best


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## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

dba_boy said:


> Please first apply for ACE .. they take 3 months to give the results and in the mean time you can prepare and give your IELTS.
> 
> IELTS will be your biggest challenge prior to visa filing. so concentrate on that after you apply for ACS. my suggestion, do not blindly rely on the reply that you get on the forum. just use it as a guide or starting point and do your own research on the topic or to get your doubts clarified.
> 
> more than half the people who give their advice do not know the process or have not been in your position/situation (my personal experience) so they tend to misguide you thus creating even more confusion and get some new doubts too . have faith in yourself and the almighty and keep all your documents ready and you shall have your grant in less than 9 months. all the very best


DAMN such a negative & demotivating response. 

FYI, ACS *these days* is taking max 3 weeks to send the outcome or earlier. Applicants have got the response literally in 2 weeks.


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks a lot for providing valuable information

Do I need to submit transcript against my Degree although I have All mark-sheet as well as Degree.
In mark-sheet all subjects with marks are given and in Degree Division with year.

Query:
1) Degree with mark-sheet is enough or anything else is required?
2) For experience - Appointment letter(Designation and job Description available), relieving letter, No object certificate and payslip is also available, So anything else is also required??


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## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

Sayed Hussain said:


> Thanks a lot for providing valuable information
> 
> Do I need to submit transcript against my Degree although I have All mark-sheet as well as Degree.
> In mark-sheet all subjects with marks are given and in Degree Division with year.
> ...


https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/17636/Document-Checklist.pdf


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

ACS deducts experience for offshore candidate. However, what will happen afterwards when someone receives his/her Visa, candidate can use whole experience or the experience which ACS will award??


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## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

Sayed Hussain said:


> ACS deducts experience for offshore candidate. However, what will happen afterwards when someone receives his/her Visa, candidate can use whole experience or the experience which ACS will award??


Employers have nothing to do with ACS assessment , they dont even what ACS assessment is. ACS assessment is only for migration.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Syed,

Apologies in first place. I should have commented after knowing it in full!! Very very sorry about that! Glad to hear you can claim points for distance education! great I would say!

All the very best.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Sayed Hussain said:


> Thanks a lot for providing valuable information
> 
> Do I need to submit transcript against my Degree although I have All mark-sheet as well as Degree.
> In mark-sheet all subjects with marks are given and in Degree Division with year.
> ...


If you have the job responsibilities (some 5-10 points)along with your from date, designation signed by your HR with contact info on organization letter head, it will suffice; otherwise, if you type a statutory declaration and get it signed by HR/your manager, that'll also do.


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

I would like to ask one more question..

What is certified copy?
Should I get my Master's degree certified from someone?
I have my work experience original documents with me(All in company's letter head), However, do i need to get it certified by someone or should I get it scanned and upload it for ACS?
Certified copy is only for education or it's for both education and experience ?

I would highly appreciate your prompt reply..


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## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

Sayed Hussain said:


> I would like to ask one more question..
> 
> What is certified copy?
> Should I get my Master's degree certified from someone?
> ...


Everything that you upload has to be certified. Its mandatory. 
https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/17636/Document-Checklist.pdf


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## gotoAus (Nov 26, 2014)

skksundar said:


> Sayed,
> 
> Point 1- The Distance learning program is not equivalent to AQF major.
> Point 2- The B.A degree is not closely related to your occupation.
> ...


Had a quick query will an MBA from India Symbiosis through distance learning be accecpted for VISA application ( not ACS please read) I mean for points calculation 

Cheers 
gotoAus


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## Sayed Hussain (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi,

I have received updated experience letter from one of the Employer, however, the problem is they have issued it on new letterhead where company's address is changed. So is it valid or should I go for statutory declaration? 

My appointment letter has ABC address on letterhead and XYZ address on experience certificate.

Regards,
Sayed


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

The easiest solution would be to get a one-liner added to the reference letter, stating "we moved office to <XYZ> in <year>". That's what ACS recommends for company name changes at least.


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## NMCHD (Mar 30, 2014)

espresso said:


> The easiest solution would be to get a one-liner added to the reference letter, stating "we moved office to <XYZ> in <year>". That's what ACS recommends for company name changes at least.


Hi Monica

I have a query regarding work experience. I have a positive skill assessment for my nominated occupation i.e. 221214 (Internal Auditor). I have worked in this occupation from Apr 10 to June 13 i.e. for 3 years and 3 months and have a positive skill assessment from Vetassess for more than 3 year period. Since Jul 2013 I am in a different profile, though in the same industry. 

My question is that, is it a requirement to be employed in the nominated occupation for atleast 12 out of last 24 months. As per my research on this, I found that it was a requirement prior to Skillselect (before July 2011), for visa types 175, 176 etc, however as per the present guidelines (as per booklet 6), this is no longer required for visa types 189, 190 and 489. 

Your views on this.


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## nehajn2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

Hi,

Any one who can let me know:

----If I completed OZ Master's degree in 2009 , can I still have Post Australian study skills assessment.?
----If yes, do I have to myself show funds while applying PR (189) or my husband can show his dependent.
----For Skilled nomination visa (190,489), we have to get skills assessment and not Post Australian study assessment, am i Correct?

Thanks

Neha


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## ashima0310 (Jan 8, 2018)

Hello,

I shall be applying for acs assessment. I have a bachelors degree which was completed in the year 2011. I am working since then. However, I took a masters degree in the same field (distance education) which completed in the year 2014.

I wanted to know how will acs calculate my work experience. Will it be counted from 2011 onwards or 2014 onwards?

Regards,
Ashima


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Sayed Hussain said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have received updated experience letter from one of the Employer, however, the problem is they have issued it on new letterhead where company's address is changed. So is it valid or should I go for statutory declaration?
> 
> ...


Companies addresses can change at any point of time
It’s not a big issue

As long as th company name is unchanged, it’s fine
Use the reference letter. It has far more credibility then a SD

Cheers


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## Vivek6_m (Dec 29, 2017)

ashima0310 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I shall be applying for acs assessment. I have a bachelors degree which was completed in the year 2011. I am working since then. However, I took a masters degree in the same field (distance education) which completed in the year 2014.
> 
> ...


Hi, 

I believe that you can apply for ACS with Experience starting from 2011 onwards.

I doubt whether they will be considering your Distance education that you have done during your ongoing employment here in India!! It's better to get advise from Senior Members & also from MIgration Agents if possible on your Distance Education..


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## just_ev (Nov 6, 2017)

*visa 189 work experience question*

Hi guys,

On 07/02/2018 I have lodged my 189 EOI with 70 points. I have got an ACS assessment for 261312 (Developer Programmer) which confirms my 1 year work experience. However, when I was lodging my EOI I have not claimed 5 points for my work experience.

And here it gets a little bit dodgy. I have been working for more than a year in Business Intelligence team completing different sorts of duties mainly System Administration and Development. I got my manager to sign the Employment letter for me where I listed 4 Development duties and 2 Sys Admin duties so that I have 60% of duties related to the nominated occupation. ACS confirmed my experience.

However, to be completely honest I actually do more System Administration than Developing. Therefore I was worried to claim 5 points for experience because I am not sure how deep Immigration office is going to deep and I am afraid of being accused of points falsification. Furthermore, my job title says Junior System Administrator.

What would be your advice guys? Should I stay still and wait for the Invitation with 70 points (my current 485 visa expires 3rd September) or update to 75 points?

Thanks!


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