# Miserable in Auckland



## Toni in Auckland

Does anyone else living here feel like they've the worst mistake of their life? Did you keep on feeling like that or did you grow to like here it after a while?

I've been here six months and came with a open heart and mind. Prepared to knuckle down and do my best to fit in and become part of the community here. It's been so hard, people are superficially friendly but aren't interested in being real friends. I've been reading this forum for a while and have followed all the good advice given here but I still can't seem to break through. I'm tempted to seek out other expats but I didn't come here to do that, I came here because I wanted to be a new Kiwi and live a new life, not rehash the old.

I feel unfulfilled in my job and can't see it getting better, bored would be an underestimate. I'm disappointed in my choice of location in Auckland and I feel claustrophobic because of all the people and traffic, it takes ages to get anywhere and driving is a nightmare, even today on a Sunday. The weather is a disappointment too, these last few days make me wonder if there's ever really a summer here, this is much more like early spring back home. Yesterday I braved the winds and went for a walk on the beach and was burned after about 15 mins even though I was wearing sun block. It's very easy to underestimate the power of the sun.

Does it get better and should I say here in Auckland? Are there better places out there? Auckland is down at heel, cheap and scruffy, much of it looks like it was built on a shoestring with no true wealth or investment to be seen. There are so many depressing and old buildings here that I feel overwhelmed by a sense of decay and tiredness, which isn't like me at all as i try to see the good in thingd. Its like the place had its heyday about 40 years ago and it's been in decline ever since. I live in Bayswater close to the ferry, which is supposed to be a nice area but quite honestly it's not that great at all but very expensive, I'll never be able to afford much around here, which is why I'm considering my options.

Someone tell me it gets easier or give me some suggestions about how to make things better.


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## jsharbuck

Hi Toni,

wanted to send a note of encouragement to you. My husband and I moved to Bay of Plenty region in August and it takes a little while to get settled. Tell me a little about your experiences, is moving a new experience for you ? Where did you come from ?


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## Song_Si

Hi
Just wrote a lengthy response, distracted and changed page without submit. Try again!

When i first read your post i thought my eldest brother may have written it - mid 2011 he retired to Auckland after almost 40yrs UK/Asia, and maybe feels just as much a 'stranger' as you may in Auckland, a place he'd never lived in before. He offers similar descriptions of living there. 
Yet I have international friends who love the place.
Don't feel guilty, you haven't 'failed'
I worked for many years in international recruitment, some wins/losses in terms of people staying/seeing out contracts. Also twice had company cars abandoned at the airport with cellphone etc inside, and a message on the answerphone at work Monday morning saying what bay the car was in! That's reality. Having said that i wouldn't pick who it would 'work' for, had instances both ways with individuals/families, differing age brackets and countries of origin.
Are your job skills transferable to another location in NZ?
Have you had a chance to travel beyond Auckland city/region, and areas that appeal?
The weather - little that can be done, unsure where I'd pick to live if that was a deciding factor. Agian, dependent upon your occupation.

Two days ago I started a thread on the Thai forum Short term expats - what goes wrong? which so far is more questions than answers, but does highlight that changing country doesn't work out for everyone. 

At worst - life experience - someone wrote this on the thread I mentioned: 

'Those that try and fail, go home after a short time are often criticised, even ridiculed for not having researched properly, having excessive expectations or whatever. The real "losers" however are those that never even try it out.'

best wishes for whatever you decide.


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## kiwiemma

Don't have time for a full response, but as far as the weather goes, if it makes you feel any better it is still spring in NZ. Summer starts in December but really doesn't get going until Jan/Feb. Buy a better sunscreen and a wide-brim hat, talk to your boss about your problems at work, start inviting people around for a BBQ on the weekends, and give it another 6 months. A year in, if you feel the same, look at moving on. No point being miserable.


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## mikesurf

It's not very likely it will get any better for you, we spent 6 years trying to ignore the feelings that we were living on a distant outpost in the pacific. When the weather does get good you have to protect yourself from the incredibly intense sun, don't forget NZ is the worl capital of melonoma's. We entered NZ with a healthy bank balance and left with very little due to the harsh reality of low wages and high cost of living. 

If you can give Australia a go, there are higher wages and far more things to do. Also tha Aussies are a lot easier to get along with on more than a superficial layer.


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## lorgnette

Toni in Auckland said:


> Does anyone else living here feel like they've the worst mistake of their life? Did you keep on feeling like that or did you grow to like here it after a while?


NZ is not for everyone. e.g., Our friends had promising careers, good pay, apartments yet families refused to settle after a fortnight or week of vacation, and now they are back home getting on with their previous lives-and NZ lapsed into a forgotten dream.

Also, as few expats mentioned, it is tough to make friends other than superficially. supported by Trademe or gumtree massive proportion of transition residents in its numerous rental ads by week rather than months or year, 2 year leases.

Plus pay is much lower close to halved compared to US, UK or Europe. There is less purchase power with higher rates in utilities, food and board concluding that many western educated or industry experienced expats leave NZ considerably poorer in savings than when they arrived. 

Often, frequent traveled expats are faced with an elusive ---is the good air quality, but dwindling savings and scorching warm summers worth the adventure down south?


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## escapedtonz

Hey Toni In Auckland,
So sorry to hear you're not enjoying life in NZ.
Do understand how hard it can be to restart your life from scratch. Done it ourselves.

We came over to Wellington in March from North West England and I settled really quickly. Luckily I was very busy from the off, learning a new job and had many people to talk to at work who are from all corners of the globe.
Yes life is very different from the UK and I miss loads about the UK but there's a lot I don't miss and I always have the reasons why we left in the back of my mind. Don't think I've ever had a bout of home sickness though which is good.
I had no friends or family here when I arrived other than my wife and son but I found it really easy to make friends and all through work initially - playing golf on days off and motorbiking.
We've also met up with a few couples / families who we've talked to through this forum and are great friends with a few and meet regular with the kids.
Granted I have not made friends with any kiwi's yet outside of work - can't say I've tried, but I have socialised with a few kiwi workmates with a few beers on a number of occasions.

Do you have to be really good friends with any kiwi's to succeed ?

After moving 12000 miles I expected to have kiwi mates by now but I must admit other than the kiwi guys I work with I havent really met many.
Outside of work I golf with a Canadian, an American, a South African and a guy from Stockport 
South African is also my biking buddy and the biking scene opens up a whole new world of opportunity.
Family wise we have become really good friends with an Irish couple from Dublin and we have another couple coming out in January who we met on the forum who are from my home town back in the UK so we've been helping them lots in the lead up to their emigration.

We're also looking forward to some long time friends emigrating here in April 2013 which will be fantastic for regular trips to Christchurch where they'll be based.

It took my wife a good while longer to get used to it here. 
She was desperately unhappy for the first month or two, but after picking herself up and making a small circle of friends and helping other ex pats in their emigration she is loving it here now.
Yes she still misses her family who she was very close to, but these feelings subside when you make yourself busy doing other things. Luckily her parents are here in under 2 weeks visiting for 2 months.

Don't really know what to say for encouragement. 
All I would advise is don't make any rash decisions yet.
Don't give up too easily. 
Maybe you being bored in your job is a massive factor in you being unhappy ?
Maybe a change of area is also what you need ?
I can vouch for Wellington being a fantastic place to live.
I suppose it depends what you're into ?


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## suslik

First: Toni, you've written it very well. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

And secondly, I don't know if it's of any help, but...

When I first came to New Zealand, it was for backpacking. I wasn't planning on staying longer; in fact, I was only halfway through my Master's studies so I was due back at school in a year and a half. 

My first month in NZ I simply hung out in Queenstown trying to figure this place out, next two months worked on a farm in Kaikoura which helped save up a little bit of money, and then for half a year I really did backpack around. I worked in a vineyard in Blenheim, horse stables in Hanmer, helped out at hostels for free board, went hiking whenever I had time. And honestly, it was THE MOST people - and friends - I've met in my life. They were everywhere: in rooms we shared in hostels, in pubs I went for music and food, on hiking trails and DOC huts and internet cafes.

I still don't know what it was that made the difference. Sometimes I think it is because we shared our lives rather than simply meet up for coffee somewhere. Sometimes I think it is because I gave up on this... pretense of coming from this academic background and being well-read and whatnot. Sometimes I think it's because I started asking people for help - if they knew somebody who had a room to rent, if there was a bus to the trailhead, if they had any work for me - rather than come in well settled. Probably all of the above, and more.

But sometimes I think it was simply because I stayed well clear of big towns. In Fox glacier there's pretty much this one pub where everybody hangs out, and that's where it happens after a long day on the ice. 

The bigger a town is, the more people-scene is dispersed between different pubs and hostels and streets, becomes sort of anonymous, and then "fitting in" becomes a question of luck - of happening to meet someone who knows someone - whereas if there's this one pub, or one street, then the chances are I will be where other people are, sharing our lives.

I only lived on the North island for two months. I rented a campervan first and had me a little trip. I will never forget how DIFFERENT it was once I'd crossed the Cook Strait to Wellington. Suddenly after empty roads of the South it was motorways. I hung on and traveled further north, but still there were fences everywhere and paddocks with sheep and cattle and people and empty drink cans, everywhere. I felt like there wasn't really space for me. I drove through Auckland three times, each time relieved when it was behind me at last. On one visit I tried walking around, sat down for a cuppa, checked out the bungy site, stayed a night in a hostel. I did not enjoy the pace. 

I lived near Raglan for a month and another month near Kerikeri, which are both small by North island standards. I liked both, but I fit in better down South, I felt.

It's been almost 4 years now. I'm married (to a fellow backpacker), I've a son, I live near Christchurch which is by no means a little town. But still I've got friends I made back in my first year when I was backpacking, friends from small places.


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## jenswaters

Oh you poor thing. It is such a horrible feeling when you have the "have I done the right thing" feeling. It is also completely normal.

NZ is a BIG place (although small in population). Every area offers something different. As suggested earlier, could you transfer and try a new area? I live in the Bay of Plenty in Tauranga, and couldn't imagine my life being led in Auckland (listening to people's tales of traffic etc makes me shudder). But I also know that I left the UK for a reason...those reasons would still be there if we went back. Maybe NZ is the place for you, but you may prefer somewhere a little less cosmopolitan. Talk to your bosses, see if there is a chance to move within the company, and why not try just picking up a few days away in a new area, meet some people and see if you prefer it there.

Good luck. And we will all be here to help you and listen and offer advice if needed.


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## anski

Hi Toni,

Yes I can empathise with you, having moved in & out of so many countries I too have had highs & lows. I agree the weather in Auckland is awful. We spent 2 years in Europe & returning September 2011 hoping for a good summer which did not happen in my opinion yet others have disagreed when I mentioned this. Summer does start later here it usually does not get better until after January & March in my opinion is the best month with endless blue skies & sunny days & temperature around mid 20's. Last year March was cold but April was great.

I think world wide the weather is screwed up, look what's happening in the UK right now.

Don't expect to make good friends immediately, these take years to materialise from school, work & activities & probably did in your past except you did not realise it.

Auckland is made up of so many nationalities, if you observed the crowds watching the Farmer's Santa Parade last Sunday it would appear there were more Asians lining Queen Street than Pakeha. This is because the majority of student & migrants choose Auckland because of the opportunities it offers.

Consider looking for a new location to live or look for a new job.

I live in Mission Bay & drive time to the city is between 15 -30 minutes including peak hour traffic. There is also a good bus service. It's also a very vibrant place at the weekend & lovely area to walk. Mission Bay - Auckland's Best Beachside Restaurants, Cafes & Bars

On the other hand other parts of NZ have less cloudy skies, we are moving to Hawkes Bay for that reason.

So don't give up, try making some changes first.


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## mikesurf

I can't agree with people saying stick with it. I just wish we had left a lot sooner than we did. There is no point in just plodding along just hoping things will get better, if you are not happy now then it is very unlikely things will get better. Most people arrive with rose tinted glasses and spend the first year deluding themselves that it is a great place to live. I can see your rose tinted glasses are well and truly off. Lucky for you as you will avoid spending all your savings hoping things will get better.


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## kiwigser

*Join groups*

I have not read all the replies and so apologise if I am repeating advice. The best way of meeting people is to join clubs, groups etc. You do not have to have an great interest in the subject, just go along and see what the members are about. We (I know its easier with 2) joined really diverse groups, a motorbike club, book club, MG club (still members) theatre group (Howick little theatre, recommended). It really does not matter what the subject is, there is usually a need for extra members.

Mikesurf is all about giving up, 90% of immigrants find their life here, and as for Aussies, they can be really obnoxious at times, they love taking the p**s.

The weather is getting better, hot and dry times are ahead.

One last thought, most yacht clubs have too many boats and not enough crew, I stated as portable ballast for the Friday afternoon races.


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## kiwigser

*Groups 2*

An addition to my post, I timed out before finishing

Some things worth looking at

Meetups near Auckland - Meetup

The Auckland Friendship Group (AFG) (Auckland) - Meetup


Learn to dive :Global Dive - scuba diving training and travel - Auckland, New Zealand


MG Car Club - Auckland

Howick Little Theatre

St John New Zealand - First to care

Welcome to Coastguard New Zealand


Auckland photo club: Auckland Photographic Society Inc.


Yes you will get burnt here, the sun is 75 degrees above the horizon (think Malaga), its just the cold sea keeping temperatures low for now. Hats are compulsory!


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## Toni in Auckland

Thank you everyone for your supportive words and suggestions, it's a comfort to know that other people feel a similar way.

I don't have a problem getting out and meeting people, I'm doing that all the time and have just finished lunch with one client and I'm meeting up with colleagues this evening after work. I was on a working holiday in Australia and have done a lot of backpacking so I'm well traveled, generally I have no problems fitting in.

lorgnette, (what was deleted from your message?) you get exactly what I mean and thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately there aren't many career openings for me down south, I need to be up here where the clients are, otherwise I'd be giving that a go.

Mikesurf, I think you're right, the rose tinted glasses came off as soon as I started work, it wasn't too bad up until then. I can't abide some of the unprofessional tactics and backstabbing. 

I'm probably at the stage now where i want to start putting down roots, build my career, buy somewhere nice to live and all, but I can't envisage doing that here, for all the reasons I've already given. I think I'm at the wrong stage of my life for New Zealand, this isn't where I want to spend the next 20 years, I feel like I'm up a dead end and I know I need to do something about it soon whilst I still can.

Time is ticking on, must get back to the office, catch you all later and thanks again.


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## mikesurf

Good luck to you wherever you end up. If you don't get to Australia I can highly recommend the south of France.


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## rolypoly

hi toni,
thanks for sharing your thought..

valuable info for me.


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## chellebubbles

yep, i felt exactly the same way Toni. Still do in a way. But what i keep thinking is the grass wasn't any greener in the UK and thats why we left. We have been here 10 months now and we have found that making friends here is a lot harder than in the UK, and there is nothing wrong with having other expats as friends. To be honest i find them easier to get along with. We moved to a little village a few weeks ago which has a nice atmosphere and we hope to make some more friends soon. Most of our work friends have children which we dont so it is a bit harder. I think most young Aucklanders left because of it being almost impossible to buy a house and earn a decent wage then us foreigners have moved in. 

Summer will come, we landed in January this year and were not disappointed. 

Chin up. It could be worse. Give yourself a year atleast, if your really unhappy then try out Wellington or the South Island??


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## adinanz

Hi Toni,

Your experience is similar to mine when I lived in Vienna, Austria. I felt the same way as you and I could not have immagined myself living there for years and years....I felt trapped , unhappy and miserable after the first year...and it did not get any better. I lasted 4 long years and dreaded the cold, really cold weather and the dark grey sky for more than 6 months a year, I felt depressed and decided to leave. I came back to Auckland because I missed the beach, the open space, the fresh salty air, the weather yes, it is much better than in Vienna, and I will never ever complain again of cold while I'll be living here.... When I left Vienna in November 2011 it was -6 ( minus 6) degrees there and I just laughed when the friends waiting for me at the airport were complaining of the windy and chilly weather of 18 degrees...it was bliss for me...
So I think it's different for everybody and everybody is different. I love many parts of New Zealand and I love Auckland and I just don't feel European anymore...I see myself happy here for the rest of my life....but that's just me ....
If you're not happy in a place don't waste your time,move and find a place where you will be happy !


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## Lester

Toni in Auckland said:


> I'm probably at the stage now where i want to start putting down roots, build my career, buy somewhere nice to live and all, but I can't envisage doing that here, for all the reasons I've already given. I think I'm at the wrong stage of my life for New Zealand, this isn't where I want to spend the next 20 years, I feel like I'm up a dead end and I know I need to do something about it soon whilst I still can.


It is a conundrum I know, so much effort has passed under the bridge to get here we feel compelled to give it a fair crack but the longer you stay the harder it is to get out again. I agree Auckland is largely ugly, scruffy and run down but after a time you do stop noticing how bad it really is. Same with the ugly clothes and general malaise and scruffiness of people. Although utterly depressing to consider, you will eventually begin to moderate your own expectations and find some of your own standards will sink to the same level.

Either that or you'll drive yourself mental trying to rub up against it eventually and move on. My experience places outside of Auckland aren't anymore well kept or attractive.

I have yet to figure which life stage NZ does suit, perhaps most attractive for young families with school age children and students. Its not a place for the career minded and ambitious and the idea of twenty more years here makes me shudder. 

I think you know the answer already, if you are young, free and ambitious I don't know why you would choose to stay


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## topcat83

Lester said:


> It is a conundrum I know, so much effort has passed under the bridge to get here we feel compelled to give it a fair crack but the longer you stay the harder it is to get out again. I agree Auckland is largely ugly, scruffy and run down but after a time you do stop noticing how bad it really is.


There are certainly some areas of Auckland that are scruffy & run down, but isn't that the same in any city? I can certainly think of some really scruffy places in London!


> Same with the ugly clothes


The shops have just the same fashions (albeit 6 months later because of the seasons) in the shops.


> and general malaise and scruffiness of people.


Isn't that up to the individual? I'd replace that with 'a much more relaxed way of dressing'. Many companies are 'business casual' - but all the places I've worked, the people dress smartly albeit more casually. Outside of work you'll see more shorts & jandals - to me, that shows that we have warmer weather (on average) to the UK.



> Although utterly depressing to consider, you will eventually begin to moderate your own expectations and find some of your own standards will sink to the same level.


 I'd replace _you_ with _we_ - it's up to the individual what their own standards are.



> Either that or you'll drive yourself mental trying to rub up against it eventually and move on. My experience places outside of Auckland aren't anymore well kept or attractive.


It really does sound as if you have had enough of New Zealand - you are no longer seeing the beautiful places that I see.



> I have yet to figure which life stage NZ does suit, perhaps most attractive for young families with school age children and students. Its not a place for the career minded and ambitious...


 Well we're certainly not a young family, and I am certainly career minded and ambitious still. I know I won't ever earn the 'megabucks' that may be available at a certain level of management in other countries, but for my current level I am earning a similar amount, and I get to live in beautiful countryside within an hour's commute from Central Auckland. 
...


> and the idea of twenty more years here makes me shudder.


You really do have to move on, don't you?



> I think you know the answer already, if you are young, free and ambitious I don't know why you would choose to stay


Answers above


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## jsharbuck

Thanks for the last post. We have been here for 5 months and we have had a great experience. This fourmn was a huge help for us in helping to make the decision to move. But If I had been reading this thread I might be afraid to move here.

Moving and a change of culture is easy for some, difficult for others. Some always gauge their new home based on where they left. Others embrace the change and opportunities their new home affords. 

We are surprised of the expense for food and clothing. I do order from stateside or have family buy make up and send it over. We shop at Farmers markets and have reduced meat portions, loosing weight has been a great benefit. Rent for us is much cheaper than Philadelphia. There is no bumper to bumper traffic or hours long commutes to work.

People here are friendly, helpful and a refreshing change from the East Coast. We have been invited to fishing clubs, bike clubs and we have started making friends. People bend over backwards to help you here. I am starting a business and have a person introducing me to her contacts.

The country is beautiful and we fully take advantage of what NZ offers. Running through the Redwoods or hiking to that hidden beach, it's wonderful here. It is also a jump off point to many places, Fiji, OZ, Singapore, that are more easily accessible from here.

Wages are less. My husband look a 40 % cut in pay to move here. In the end we traded the high pressure, high paying job with 70 plus hours a week for a job he loves. We still make enough to cover our needs, travel and set aside towards retirement. 

We paid cash for a used car instead of making payments for one. We rarely eat out. We don't use credit cards to buy what we want. We are less materialistic and yet happier. 

We are here to stay. Can't imagine moving back to the US. I often ask expats from other countries if they would move back and they all say no.


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## cliche

suslik said:


> First: Toni, you've written it very well. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
> 
> And secondly, I don't know if it's of any help, but...
> 
> When I first came to New Zealand, it was for backpacking. I wasn't planning on staying longer; in fact, I was only halfway through my Master's studies so I was due back at school in a year and a half.
> 
> My first month in NZ I simply hung out in Queenstown trying to figure this place out, next two months worked on a farm in Kaikoura which helped save up a little bit of money, and then for half a year I really did backpack around. I worked in a vineyard in Blenheim, horse stables in Hanmer, helped out at hostels for free board, went hiking whenever I had time. And honestly, it was THE MOST people - and friends - I've met in my life. They were everywhere: in rooms we shared in hostels, in pubs I went for music and food, on hiking trails and DOC huts and internet cafes.
> 
> I still don't know what it was that made the difference. Sometimes I think it is because we shared our lives rather than simply meet up for coffee somewhere. Sometimes I think it is because I gave up on this... pretense of coming from this academic background and being well-read and whatnot. Sometimes I think it's because I started asking people for help - if they knew somebody who had a room to rent, if there was a bus to the trailhead, if they had any work for me - rather than come in well settled. Probably all of the above, and more.
> 
> But sometimes I think it was simply because I stayed well clear of big towns. In Fox glacier there's pretty much this one pub where everybody hangs out, and that's where it happens after a long day on the ice.
> 
> The bigger a town is, the more people-scene is dispersed between different pubs and hostels and streets, becomes sort of anonymous, and then "fitting in" becomes a question of luck - of happening to meet someone who knows someone - whereas if there's this one pub, or one street, then the chances are I will be where other people are, sharing our lives.
> 
> I only lived on the North island for two months. I rented a campervan first and had me a little trip. I will never forget how DIFFERENT it was once I'd crossed the Cook Strait to Wellington. Suddenly after empty roads of the South it was motorways. I hung on and traveled further north, but still there were fences everywhere and paddocks with sheep and cattle and people and empty drink cans, everywhere. I felt like there wasn't really space for me. I drove through Auckland three times, each time relieved when it was behind me at last. On one visit I tried walking around, sat down for a cuppa, checked out the bungy site, stayed a night in a hostel. I did not enjoy the pace.
> 
> I lived near Raglan for a month and another month near Kerikeri, which are both small by North island standards. I liked both, but I fit in better down South, I felt.
> 
> It's been almost 4 years now. I'm married (to a fellow backpacker), I've a son, I live near Christchurch which is by no means a little town. But still I've got friends I made back in my first year when I was backpacking, friends from small places.


I fell in love with the South Island when I visited both Islands. To hear that you settled down with a fellow backpacker and have a family there too makes me feel warm whilst I read your post in cold, damp Manchester (UK)


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## dawnclaremaddox

At the end of the day, anyone who wants to come to NZ should really come on holiday for at least a month and stay in BP's where you get to meet lots of people (old and young) and do their research. I kept a diary and collected leaflets and books of all the places we had been to, met some wonderful people, especially an old couple (late 70's/early 80's) from America who we still keep in contact with who went tramping all round NZ and staying in BP's themselves. (hope I do the same when I'm that age!).

Every country has it good and bad points and places, even the UK. It was the people that we lived amongst there that was a problem, but here, we have made some really good Kiwi friends where we work and live. We feel that we have been here longer than the 1 year and I have always said if the sun shines, it's a bonus. I'm getting the hang of Taranaki weather, it's good for the garden!


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## jimi_H

Maybe try another district of Auckland, it would be easier for you to do, but it might not help to relocate to another part of New Zealand. I have to say I think Auckland seems the most exciting. Other parts of New Zealand seem a little boring, especially if you don't want to spend a lot of money. 

We have been in Tauranga for a few months. I am finding the weather very depressing and the place, well there's nothing much to do here. Luckily, we have only temporarily located to New Zealand, to try out living here. After this, we wouldn't make a move here.

I have to say, my moto in life, is always do what makes you happy, life is too short to regret your day-to-day existance. If you're not happy, change your life. Don't ever see it as a failure that you tried something you didn't like because it's not, I see everything you do as a life experience gained, some experiences you wouldn't wish to repeat perhaps but life is for living and trying new things. If you never try something new you'll never know if you are going to like it. If you are not happy here, go try to do something else until you do find happiness. That's what I would do and I don't think anyone would see that as a failure. I think New Zealand is more difficult than you think it's going to be to settle in as it is expensive to do anything here and you think because people speak English it will be easy but culturally it is quite different to the UK and I would say it's a little boring, the weather's a disappointment and even the television is terrible. 

Good luck!


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## MrsRose

jimi_H said:


> I would say it's a little boring, the weather's a disappointment and even the television is terrible.



Can you elaborate? Why do you find New Zealand boring? And what do you mean by saying that the weather is depressing? 
Just curious as we are considering a move to NZ.


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## jsharbuck

MrsRose said:


> Can you elaborate? Why do you find New Zealand boring? And what do you mean by saying that the weather is depressing?
> Just curious as we are considering a move to NZ.


We moved to New Zealand in August and are thankful to have made the decision. This forum is excellent for finding out facts and info. However when you start looking at wether people are happy or not here, take it with a grain of salt. There are so many variables and what one person likes another won't. Here is what we have found

1. It's a lifestyle change: it has made us look at what's important. If you need a big house, new car, lots of shopping malls, then you might mot be happy here. Instead of making car payments we ought a 5 yr old car for cash. We leased a home that is half what we would have paid in Philadelphia.
2. Food is expensive. We shop farmers markets, stock up on stiff that is on sale. It is something we are willing to live with.
3. People here are friendly and you are made to feel welcome here. Like moving anywhere, you have to make the effort and it takes time. Lots of clubs and events to meet people.
4. Like any place there are good and bad points, it's an attitude. 
5. The weather has been depressing but talk to people anywhere and it's been bad. It doesn't keep us inside or at home.

All I can say is that my husband and I are happier then we have been in a long time and plan on staying here. We have made lifestyle changes and are the better for it. Don't allow others perceptions to influence you in doing something you want to do.


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## topcat83

MrsRose said:


> Can you elaborate? Why do you find New Zealand boring? And what do you mean by saying that the weather is depressing?
> Just curious as we are considering a move to NZ.


Ah - the weather. I think it will depend on how long jimi_H has been here, but I think it's fair to say that last year was an unusually wet one. So I'd say to anyone who's been here just one year to try another year and see if there's a difference.

After saying that, I'll also say we are not Australia - don't expect hot dry weather all the time. There is a reason that New Zealand is green, and a reason why it's called 'The Land of the Long White Cloud'. This is also the reason why our animals can eat out on green grass all year round. As a 'toy farmer' your attitude to rain changes when you have animals to feed!


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## jenswaters

jimi_H said:


> We have been in Tauranga for a few months. I am finding the weather very depressing and the place, well there's nothing much to do here.


Wow, as someone who has been living here in Tauranga for 3 years, I can honestly say that the weather is the least depressing thing!!!! We have had the most amazing heat and sunshine here since the end of October. Yes, we have had a lot of rain since just before Christmas, but this is not normal. Compare it to a "typical" UK summer and I can say that we have still had less rain! Besides, the summer really gets going towards the middle of January, and is fantastic until middle April.

Things to do...are you here with kids or alone? This can make a difference. Tauranga is very outdoors-based, so if you are after movies, TV, shopping, etc then we really don't have that. We do have fishing, dolphin-watching, beaches, Waimarino water park, kayaking,,,,the list goes on.


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## forrey55

Hi,
New to the site, and just cruised on to the NZ section because was in Auckland for 5 weeks in 2011 and we had our best time ever (if I was not 55 I would be on my way now), the city compared to Toronto(Canada) lets say I spend 3 hours a day in the car (my hobby I guess) and don't get me started on public transport or overall cleanliness.
Any way sorry went off topic there, your original post Toni if you had had Vancouver instead of Auckland that was me 25 years ago, I ended up in the Toronto area and never looked back so same country different area made all the difference to me, I had lots of home sickness but for me the ability to get on in work with no old boy network (as in the UK of the 70's) kept me plugging away and finely settled in, altho now thinking about retirment and I tell you it is not going to be in Ontario I am sick of shoveling snow witch I am going to have to go out and do right now.
Any way Toni All the best no matter what you decide.
Forrey.


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## Toni in Auckland

I thought it was time for me to post an update, sorry it has taken me so long but things have been full on recently.

I decided to take the advice to change my job and move. I was very lucky to find something at a higher level and a fifty percent increase in salary. I am now earning enough to be able to buy mu own apartment, i have a great social life and work with a wonderful, vibrant and funny bunch of people. I feel like i am back in control of my career and people value the work i do, there are good opportunities for progression and i can see where i am going now.

My visa came through for Australia and i have been here for two months, it feels like the best decision i have ever made. I'm thoroughly enjoying my new country and will be applying for permanent residency when the time comes. My advice to anyone who is not enjoying life in New Zealand is to cut your loses and get out. If if knew life could so easily be this good I would have never wasted my time trying to make it work in New Zealand. It simply was not worth the grind. Of course, some people manage to make it work for them but the truth is it didn't work for me.

One last thing, there are plenty of smart Kiwis here, about half of the people I work with came from New Zealand and all of them are doing better and having more fun in Australia.


----------



## anski

Toni in Auckland said:


> I thought it was time for me to post an update, sorry it has taken me so long but things have been full on recently.
> 
> I decided to take the advice to change my job and move. I was very lucky to find something at a higher level and a fifty percent increase in salary. I am now earning enough to be able to buy mu own apartment, i have a great social life and work with a wonderful, vibrant and funny bunch of people. I feel like i am back in control of my career and people value the work i do, there are good opportunities for progression and i can see where i am going now.
> 
> My visa came through for Australia and i have been here for two months, it feels like the best decision i have ever made. I'm thoroughly enjoying my new country and will be applying for permanent residency when the time comes. My advice to anyone who is not enjoying life in New Zealand is to cut your loses and get out. If if knew life could so easily be this good I would have never wasted my time trying to make it work in New Zealand. It simply was not worth the grind. Of course, some people manage to make it work for them but the truth is it didn't work for me.
> 
> One last thing, there are plenty of smart Kiwis here, about half of the people I work with came from New Zealand and all of them are doing better and having more fun in Australia.



Nice to hear you have made the move & everything has worked out for you. You certainly sound a lot more positive.

You need to update your location details so others can see where you are.

You did not mention what part of Australia you moved to.

I had 32 happy years in Australia, most of them in Sydney but been to pretty much every part of Australia.

I enjoyed my time in Auckland, but I also moved from Auckland recently to Napier & honestly have to say I love it. Making friends is easy here, & getting from A to B is easy, climate better (sunnier & less cloud cover & seems warmer at night, been out at night without warm clothing, something I never did in Auckland.

Our local Pak n Save is amazing, they buy local fruit & veg that they sell for amazingly low prices. The other week they had Gala apples 11c kg & Red Capsicum 39c each! And it is all so freshly picked!

Anyway hope the honeymoon feeling does not wear off for either off us.

Don't forget to pop back in & update us.

All the best for your new life.


----------



## manckiwi

Hi Toni

Do you mind me asking which visa you got for Australia? I have residency for NZ and am now back in the UK, hating the weather and wondering if it's time to move again. But not sure NZ is the right place for me to go back to (I lived there for 5 years).

Sounds like you made the right move going to Oz.


----------



## Toni in Auckland

Hi Manckiwi, my employer sponsored my visa under the ENS scheme. At the time it was the quickest and cheapest option for me. They also helped out with relocation costs which was generous of them. 

So far I`m thoroughly enjoying myself but I'm sure the gloss will wear off eventually, when I was at this time stage in New Zealand I was already deeply unhappy and looking round for alternatives.....so yes I think I've made the right choice this time.


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## tamarisk

We moved here a year ago and I don't like it enough to stay for good and have been quite lonely and disappointed in it BUT I'm still glad we came, if only to know it isn't the place for us, and just for a change and an adventure really. It got us out of a rut, and I think we have all benefited from it. I think if you look at more like something different for a year or two it feels better than thinking this is it, forever. I couldn't face that thought!!


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## Toni in Auckland

I think I was fortunate to have had the experience, it was character forming to say the least and definitely scratched an itch, and created a desire to move on to better things. I'm one of those people who think if you're not moving forward you're going backwards because I hate the feeling of stagnation. That must be the ambition in me coming out.


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## chellebubbles

Glad to see that your Happy! At least you didn't go back to the UK!! I am interested to know what your a doing in Aus, its been in the back of our mind since we arrived and is an option we would like to explore further in the future. 

Keep smiling!!! It could be worse, that's my motto!


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## Toni in Auckland

I work in advertising, media and PR so positive attitude is my middle name. Keeping a smile on my face is something I do for a living . I also know about how to sell a product and freely admit to getting taken in by the marketing of New Zealand as a premier work and living destination. It's rather embarrassing to admit it as I thought I would find it easy to see through that, I never dreamed I would be taken for a sucker but you live and learn. I've made the right choice now so all good.


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## suslik

Toni, I was glad to see things starting to work out for you when you moved to Australia. I am curious: it has now been a year since you last wrote. Is Australia still good for you?


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## aspire

*wellington ???*

anyone from wellington


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## escapedtonz

aspire said:


> anyone from wellington


See other thread for my reply.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## RickyM

*Miserable in London ??*



Toni in Auckland said:


> Does anyone else living here feel like they've the worst mistake of their life? Did you keep on feeling like that or did you grow to like here it after a while?
> 
> I've been here six months and came with a open heart and mind. Prepared to knuckle down and do my best to fit in and become part of the community here. It's been so hard, people are superficially friendly but aren't interested in being real friends. I've been reading this forum for a while and have followed all the good advice given here but I still can't seem to break through. I'm tempted to seek out other expats but I didn't come here to do that, I came here because I wanted to be a new Kiwi and live a new life, not rehash the old.
> 
> I feel unfulfilled in my job and can't see it getting better, bored would be an underestimate. I'm disappointed in my choice of location in Auckland and I feel claustrophobic because of all the people and traffic, it takes ages to get anywhere and driving is a nightmare, even today on a Sunday. The weather is a disappointment too, these last few days make me wonder if there's ever really a summer here, this is much more like early spring back home. Yesterday I braved the winds and went for a walk on the beach and was burned after about 15 mins even though I was wearing sun block. It's very easy to underestimate the power of the sun.
> 
> Does it get better and should I say here in Auckland? Are there better places out there? Auckland is down at heel, cheap and scruffy, much of it looks like it was built on a shoestring with no true wealth or investment to be seen. There are so many depressing and old buildings here that I feel overwhelmed by a sense of decay and tiredness, which isn't like me at all as i try to see the good in thingd. Its like the place had its heyday about 40 years ago and it's been in decline ever since. I live in Bayswater close to the ferry, which is supposed to be a nice area but quite honestly it's not that great at all but very expensive, I'll never be able to afford much around here, which is why I'm considering my options.
> 
> Someone tell me it gets easier or give me some suggestions about how to make things better.



*If I was you I would Stay in Auckland !! I don't know what the Hell you are complaining about, I know both these countries intimately.... *

I can say in comparison with Auckland.... London is so so _(wait! where do I start)_....... 

1. Old / Aged
2. Stressful, includes everything specially commute inside gas chambers (tube)
3. Grey, no sunshine 
4. Gloomy
5. Crowded
6. Painfully Competitive
7. Expensive, real estate prices are joke
8. Cold
9. Foggy
10. Rough, criminal
11. Depressing
12. Frustrating
13. Full of Ugly Council Buildings
14. Anxiety filled
15. Overflowing
16. Crammed
17. Chaotic
18. Over Rated
19. Dull
20. Dirty, mess everywhere
21. Filthy
22. Smelly, you can taste the air
23. Exhausting, take the life out of you
24. Polluted
25. Enslaved, specially in recession
26. Unfriendly
27. Angry
28. ..........

... ......Same for other cities in UK 

Auckland, despite of its traits is a much much better deal than London or any of the major cities of Europe.....


----------



## escapedtonz

RickyM said:


> If I was you I would Stay in Auckland !! I don't know what the Hell you are complaining about, I know both these countries intimately....
> 
> I can say in comparison with Auckland.... London is so so (wait! where do I start).......
> 
> 1. Old / Aged
> 2. Stressful, includes everything specially commute inside gas chambers (tube)
> 3. Grey, no sunshine
> 4. Gloomy
> 5. Crowded
> 6. Painfully Competitive
> 7. Expensive, real estate prices are joke
> 8. Cold
> 9. Foggy
> 10. Rough, criminal
> 11. Depressing
> 12. Frustrating
> 13. Full of Ugly Council Buildings
> 14. Anxiety filled
> 15. Overflowing
> 16. Crammed
> 17. Chaotic
> 18. Over Rated
> 19. Dull
> 20. Dirty, mess everywhere
> 21. Filthy
> 22. Smelly, you can taste the air
> 23. Exhausting, take the life out of you
> 24. Polluted
> 25. Enslaved, specially in recession
> 26. Unfriendly
> 27. Angry
> 28. ..........
> 
> ... ......Same for other cities in UK
> 
> Auckland, despite of its traits is a much much better deal than London or any of the major cities of Europe.....


You're replying to a thread started in 2012 and Toni in Auckland migrated over to Australia in early 2013.


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## mikesurf

RickyM said:


> *If I was you I would Stay in Auckland !! I don't know what the Hell you are complaining about, I know both these countries intimately.... *
> 
> I can say in comparison with Auckland.... London is so so _(wait! where do I start)_.......
> 
> 1. Old / Aged
> 2. Stressful, includes everything specially commute inside gas chambers (tube)
> 3. Grey, no sunshine
> 4. Gloomy
> 5. Crowded
> 6. Painfully Competitive
> 7. Expensive, real estate prices are joke
> 8. Cold
> 9. Foggy
> 10. Rough, criminal
> 11. Depressing
> 12. Frustrating
> 13. Full of Ugly Council Buildings
> 14. Anxiety filled
> 15. Overflowing
> 16. Crammed
> 17. Chaotic
> 18. Over Rated
> 19. Dull
> 20. Dirty, mess everywhere
> 21. Filthy
> 22. Smelly, you can taste the air
> 23. Exhausting, take the life out of you
> 24. Polluted
> 25. Enslaved, specially in recession
> 26. Unfriendly
> 27. Angry
> 28. ..........
> 
> ... ......Same for other cities in UK
> 
> Auckland, despite of its traits is a much much better deal than London or any of the major cities of Europe.....


I don't think that Tony had any desire to move back to the UK, only to get out of New Zealand.

I also think you have hit the nail on the head in that if you hate the UK and all thing European you will probably love New Zealand. I do think some of your hates of European cities as you put it are a little ridiculous. I think number 1 on your list is called culture and history. Funny thing is I would have put most of the things on your list as to what I didn't like about Auckland. I think you will find Auckland real estate prices some of the highest in the world. Obviously a blind rant about London without any substance except your own point of view and only your comparison and not a factual one.


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## God

It has been a long time since Toni wrote about Auckland. I wonder where he is now. At any rate, I have to agree with much of what he says. We have also been here 6 months, the weather sucks, the housing is expensive and of poor quality; moldy, no insulation, no central heat, leaky single pane windows and poor ventilation. I read in a local paper that 56% of the rental properties in Auckland have mold and/or water leakage problems. Seems to us like lots of things here run on a shoestring. The laid back Kiwi lifestyle seems to translate into a sort of surrender to accepting sub standard. In some ways it feels to us like NZ is third world only it's prices are high end first world. With the housing crisis, high interest rates, low wages and poor quality of over priced houses we wonder why would we put down roots here? Okay, if we loved it, if it totally wowed us, but it just does not. It feels to us like we have to make compromise after compromise just to survive in New Zealand. We came here in the hopes of thriving and find we are in survival mode. AND, we make a good salary! Our newly remodeled rental in the very nice Bucklands Beach area but does not have insulation and while it looks good at first glance, once you live in the place you question if it was designed by monkeys. Like a new bathroom without space for a mirror above the sink or even a towel rack? Bedroom closets with coat hooks hanging ABOVE the shelf-totally useless. The fast and dirty remodel did not even include cleaning up the excess caulk or grout around the tile. Now the caulk is turning dingy yellow and there are still globs of excess grout stuck to the kitchen and bathroom tile because the guy who applied it did not bother to wipe the excess. The new oven is not properly ventilated and puddles of water drip down the outside of the door whenever I roast anything. I am sure glad we are only renting and do not own this house. Stuff like that is the norm here. Sorry to offend, but there is so much that seems half assed to us. Why bother if you can't do it at least reasonably well? Oh, and lest I forget, no central heating and energy rates are outrageous!! I have been sick for more than half of the 6 months we have been here. The winter was cold and rainy, the spring cold and rainy. Every month people tell us wait until next month. Compared to what we came from in CA, the weather here is awful. Rainy and windy, rainy and windy and cold with a few sunny spells. While there are some nice places, who can spend all their time on the beach or on holiday? One has to live a good quality of life in the day to day and thus far we are very disappointed with Auckland. I now understand why NZ has a problem with it's young people and professionals moving elsewhere. In my experience, NZ is hard living, even if you live in a 
nice area and have a good salary. On the bright side, the people are friendly and it is pretty. Still, when considering building a future somewhere Auckland is precariously balanced with some major infrastructure issues. Unfortunately, we do not consider Auckland to be solid, so to speak, not a sound place to build a foundation upon. Auckland is like a nice looking date who is a emotionally a wreck, best to enjoy the view and move on.


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## roorex

God said:


> It has been a long time since Toni wrote about Auckland. I wonder where he is now. At any rate, I have to agree with much of what he says. We have also been here 6 months, the weather sucks, the housing is expensive and of poor quality; moldy, no insulation, no central heat, leaky single pane windows and poor ventilation. I read in a local paper that 56% of the rental properties in Auckland have mold and/or water leakage problems. Seems to us like lots of things here run on a shoestring. The laid back Kiwi lifestyle seems to translate into a sort of surrender to accepting sub standard. In some ways it feels to us like NZ is third world only it's prices are high end first world. With the housing crisis, high interest rates, low wages and poor quality of over priced houses we wonder why would we put down roots here? Okay, if we loved it, if it totally wowed us, but it just does not. It feels to us like we have to make compromise after compromise just to survive in New Zealand. We came here in the hopes of thriving and find we are in survival mode. AND, we make a good salary! Our newly remodeled rental in the very nice Bucklands Beach area but does not have insulation and while it looks good at first glance, once you live in the place you question if it was designed by monkeys. Like a new bathroom without space for a mirror above the sink or even a towel rack? Bedroom closets with coat hooks hanging ABOVE the shelf-totally useless. The fast and dirty remodel did not even include cleaning up the excess caulk or grout around the tile. Now the caulk is turning dingy yellow and there are still globs of excess grout stuck to the kitchen and bathroom tile because the guy who applied it did not bother to wipe the excess. The new oven is not properly ventilated and puddles of water drip down the outside of the door whenever I roast anything. I am sure glad we are only renting and do not own this house. Stuff like that is the norm here. Sorry to offend, but there is so much that seems half assed to us. Why bother if you can't do it at least reasonably well? Oh, and lest I forget, no central heating and energy rates are outrageous!! I have been sick for more than half of the 6 months we have been here. The winter was cold and rainy, the spring cold and rainy. Every month people tell us wait until next month. Compared to what we came from in CA, the weather here is awful. Rainy and windy, rainy and windy and cold with a few sunny spells. While there are some nice places, who can spend all their time on the beach or on holiday? One has to live a good quality of life in the day to day and thus far we are very disappointed with Auckland. I now understand why NZ has a problem with it's young people and professionals moving elsewhere. In my experience, NZ is hard living, even if you live in a
> nice area and have a good salary. On the bright side, the people are friendly and it is pretty. Still, when considering building a future somewhere Auckland is precariously balanced with some major infrastructure issues. Unfortunately, we do not consider Auckland to be solid, so to speak, not a sound place to build a foundation upon. Auckland is like a nice looking date who is a emotionally a wreck, best to enjoy the view and move on.


We moved here some 30 years ago, and although we never regretted leaving home I still don't fully understand why we stayed here, probably because it was easy in those early years to make good money, if only you were prepared to go for it.
Quality of life here? Poor, in my opinion. Sure, if you like sports as Kiwi's do, if you like the outdoors on a shoestring, if you can do without Western culture and are prepared to embrace Maori "culture", if you don't mind paying over the top for a modest (read: basic) house and for basically everything else, if you can accept the superficial Kiwi pleasantness (not to be confused with "friend"-liness), yes, then it's good living here....
Of course there are advantages as well here down-under; after all we're far away from the trouble spots of this modern world, far away from ebola, far away from muslim extremism, our kids can grow up relatively trouble free with a lot a freedom, we've got an uneventful political system and not too much crime, where you even can be punished if you have the guts to call a workmate "honey", so it's not all doom and gloom, but yes, it will take some time to get used to the peculiarities of this beautiful country. It took us some 7 years....
It pays to understand that you can't have your cake and eat it, you have to give up on thing that you got used to at home and embrace new habits and assimilate with Kiwi culture, and if you can't, well, then there's no point staying here.


----------



## mikesurf

roorex said:


> We moved here some 30 years ago, and although we never regretted leaving home I still don't fully understand why we stayed here, probably because it was easy in those early years to make good money, if only you were prepared to go for it.
> Quality of life here? Poor, in my opinion. Sure, if you like sports as Kiwi's do, if you like the outdoors on a shoestring, if you can do without Western culture and are prepared to embrace Maori "culture", if you don't mind paying over the top for a modest (read: basic) house and for basically everything else, if you can accept the superficial Kiwi pleasantness (not to be confused with "friend"-liness), yes, then it's good living here....
> Of course there are advantages as well here down-under; after all we're far away from the trouble spots of this modern world, far away from ebola, far away from muslim extremism, our kids can grow up relatively trouble free with a lot a freedom, we've got an uneventful political system and not too much crime, where you even can be punished if you have the guts to call a workmate "honey", so it's not all doom and gloom, but yes, it will take some time to get used to the peculiarities of this beautiful country. It took us some 7 years....
> It pays to understand that you can't have your cake and eat it, you have to give up on thing that you got used to at home and embrace new habits and assimilate with Kiwi culture, and if you can't, well, then there's no point staying here.


Hey God I see you're from Santa Cruz, that area of California is beautiful, I lived there for a short time in Capitola. I can see why New Zealand wouldn't live up to expectations.


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## suslik

I think this is the most informative thread on moving to NZ out of all of them. Both sides well-argued and with passion, and in my opinion gives a very realistic view of what people think of this place, and why. Thanks guys for pitching in!


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## God

Hi Mikesurf,

Yeah, a few people have asked us with a tone of bewilderment, "why did you move here from Santa Cruz"? Well, of course there were reasons and we do our best to remember those and to make the best of being here despite our disappointments. Thankfully we kept our house adn one car there so going back is not too difficult. At the end of the day being in NZ will be a life experience. 

We got both engaged and married in Capitola 
Happythanksgiving. 
CL


----------



## God

Hi Roorex,
Yes, I agree that being under the radar of extremist terrorist groups (at least for now though ISIL's insane world recruiting campaign has even reeled in a Kiwi) is a benefit to living in NZ. I can see why those who have children would want to raise their kids here. 

Despite our disappointment with Auckland, we recognize how fortunate we are to have choices. The majority of the world's population does not have the opportunity to pack up and move across the world. So, from a world perspective, our problems are elitist. We did come here of our own accord and it is only because we had the resources to do so that we were able to make the move. I do my best to remember that even in our disappointment, we are fortunate. And, grateful for the choice we have to consciously construct our life circumstances, we choose not to let good enough get in the way of great!!


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## inhamilton

God said:


> I have been sick for more than half of the 6 months we have been here.


We shouldn't scare people into thinking that if they come to NZ they're going to be sick all the time. Who would want that? NZ does have a high life expectancy (ie live long lives) by world standards. I think the average person lives to about 81 years of age.



God said:


> I now understand why NZ has a problem with it's young people and professionals moving elsewhere.


There are a number of things regarding that. I think it's a worldwide thing that smaller countries lose people to bigger similar countries. People migrate from Scotland to England, Canada to the US, Portugal to Spain, NZ to Australia etc. Also, in NZ's case, a lot of young people do what we call our OE, or Overseas Experience. Often we'll go away for a period when young and return to NZ to get married and have kids. I did it myself. It is also a cyclical thing. A couple of years back, many people were moving to Australia. Currently many of those are returning, so much so that in the last 12 months, NZ has had the biggest inflow of people (returning kiwis and migrants) ever. I think about 40,000 more people entered the country than left it. Generally, over time, NZ has more people entering the country (and that includes young people) than there are leaving (I think about 15,000 surplus per year on average).


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## Rosieprimrose

Yep, inhamilton, we are two people that moved to OZ and on our way back to NZ, the costs here are really shocking, we are over the heat, the huge distances to get anywhere.
We relise in going back to NZ we will miss the sunshine, friends and absolutely the shopping, but still, we have done our homework and feel its the right thing for us. 
We now have over 20 friends who have left OZ to return to NZ, all are happy they have, interestingly one moving company we contacted for a quote, now have a separate department for returning New Zealanders, the huge numbers returning are something they have not seen before.
Only time will tell if we are doing the right thing, they say "Home is where the heart is" and its not in OZ for me, thats for sure.


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## Wellygirl

Rosieprimrose said:


> Yep, inhamilton, we are two people that moved to OZ and on our way back to NZ, the costs here are really shocking, we are over the heat, the huge distances to get anywhere. We relise in going back to NZ we will miss the sunshine, friends and absolutely the shopping, but still, we have done our homework and feel its the right thing for us. We now have over 20 friends who have left OZ to return to NZ, all are happy they have, interestingly one moving company we contacted for a quote, now have a separate department for returning New Zealanders, the huge numbers returning are something they have not seen before. Only time will tell if we are doing the right thing, they say "Home is where the heart is" and its not in OZ for me, thats for sure.


I lived in Australia for three years in 2005, returned back to England and then moved to NZ in 2014. I much prefer NZ although like you said there are some positives about Australia I like the greenery in NZ and the kiwi sense of humour. Good luck with your move


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## Rosieprimrose

Thank you Wellygirl, we really feel we have done our dash over here, we will still visit OZ twice a year to visit our children, we worked out our savings in insurance alone will fund the trips.
In the past two years, Australia has become very expensive and the "Happy go lucky" attitude of Australians is almost a thing of the past, due to the cost of living. We had an ABC report on TV last week, saying that over 20,000 Australians moved last year to retire in NZ. The weather here is stunning, but I find myself longing for green, gardens and the like. 
I really didn't think it would be so hard finding a property, although we have some very exact requirements, room for our horse and dogs and something we could run a B&B from, as I always wanted to do that. Its, time to move on and I just can't wait to come home, I say that even though I was born in the UK, when I visit there, I feel like a tourist now!


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## Wellygirl

Rosieprimrose said:


> Thank you Wellygirl, we really feel we have done our dash over here, we will still visit OZ twice a year to visit our children, we worked out our savings in insurance alone will fund the trips. In the past two years, Australia has become very expensive and the "Happy go lucky" attitude of Australians is almost a thing of the past, due to the cost of living. We had an ABC report on TV last week, saying that over 20,000 Australians moved last year to retire in NZ. The weather here is stunning, but I find myself longing for green, gardens and the like. I really didn't think it would be so hard finding a property, although we have some very exact requirements, room for our horse and dogs and something we could run a B&B from, as I always wanted to do that. Its, time to move on and I just can't wait to come home, I say that even though I was born in the UK, when I visit there, I feel like a tourist now!


Sounds like you have some good plans . We initially moved to Wellington but now live in Palmy we live in a lifestyle block it's about a 15 mins commute into palmy where we both work full time (no traffic at all!!). We loved Wellington but the cost of property there was crazy compared to what we have here. We looked at otaki and the Kapiti Coast and thought it was really beautiful but didn't want a 50 min commute to work each day . I think we have the right balance of life here and can easily drive to most places from a Palmy including the ski resort . We have four goats, about 30 chickens, ducks and three cats a lifestyle we could never afford in England or Australia. Despite all the negative stuff said about Palmy i do like it here life is, a after all what you make it. I have one 18 year old son here and my 25 year old is still in England.. I am planning to return for a holiday to England in about a year


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## Earth2Arleigh

We moved here from Seattle, and have been here 7 years. We now live in Eastbourne, across the harbor from Wellington. We are staying.
Housing in New Zealand is abominable. It seems people will save a dollar in the present and end of spending thousands in the long term. For instance, they skimp on insulation and put in no heating system at all, or a totally inefficient reverse air conditioner (AKA 'heat pump'), or use plug-in electric heaters in winter, thus ensuring they will be living in freezing, moldy houses while paying hundreds a month to heat 1 room. You are paying mortgage or rent on the rest of the house that's unlivably cold, so exactly how is that cost effective? 
Therefore, if you buy a house, plan on tearing out every wall abutting the exterior, and putting in insulation. Don't forget the ceiling and under the floor, if you can reach there. 
On the up-side: the beef and lamb are all grass-fed, no chemicals or stuff like fish by-products fed to herbivore meat animals. (Yes, that happens in the States.) The streets are safe to walk. Everyone has health care, so the guy coughing next to you on the bus probably has a cold, not TB. And isn't it wonderful to drive around town and not have homeless people on every corner holding cardboard signs and asking for money? Or begging on the sidewalks? 
Yes, Kiwis are incredibly hard to get to know. So go to coffee with the Kiwis, invite them over for a drink, and make friends with the ex-pats who are staying. This is one international country, and friends can be made who are not ex-countrymen. Having said that, I do miss the American attitude that no one is born better than me even if your daddy is a king. I miss the American attitude that if I tell you something I do or have, I'm not bragging, I'm letting you know there are choices and sharing something about me.


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## nihikaikid

*Life in AKL and NZ*

Hi ya-

From a line in a TV show, "trust your instincts, you're not wrong."

I have lived in AKL area for 4.5 years. Here are my observations.

AKL weather is crap and always will be except for 24.67 days a year. You will constantly hear people grouse about "the strange weather we're having and how glorious it was last year". Bollocks! My theory is that all the gloom affects their memory. Of course your perspective may be vastly different from mine: I'm from California.

Thriftiness is a core kiwi value, maybe because they are not accustomed to excesses (like in the US) and the exorbitant prices of nearly everything here. This is reflected in the housing which is, mostly, rubbish (but very dear). At least if you get away from the cities, the prices far dramatically, but still are no bargain compared to what I am used to.

Friendly but not friends. Our circle of friends is predominately expats from the US and the UK. We do have peripheral friends and one true friend who is kiwi. Although we speak the same language, our senses of humour and values differ greatly, IMO. You have probably already met the Tall Poppy Syndrome. In addition to that, kiwis are largely not intellectuals; in my experiences, they prefer to roll up their sleeves and knuckle down to working harder rather than changing the way theywork. Many also believe that NZ does almost anything best and taking ideas (or hiring talent) from abroad is unwise. Despite the progressive social programmes, I find the thinking quite conservative.

Better places than AKL. Climate-wise, Napier. If you can stand the cold, Nelson. I live on Waiheke and it is lovely, but the weather, though better than AKL, is still crap. Unfortunately, once outside of the metro area, culture falls to near zero. You need to like fishing or farming.

NZ is a beautiful country with decent (but degrading) government, relative safety, and relative cleanliness. You can do far worse in this world. But, if you want culture, history, and a joie de vivre I'd look elsewhere.


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## inhamilton

nihikaikid said:


> AKL weather is crap and always will be except for 24.67 days a year. You will constantly hear people grouse about "the strange weather we're having and how glorious it was last year". Bollocks! My theory is that all the gloom affects their memory. Of course your perspective may be vastly different from mine: I'm from California.


That's an interesting observation because the last 2 summers (2013 and 2014) in the upper North Island, including Auckland, were stricken with official droughts with very little rainfall and week after week of sunny days as far as I remember. Here in the Waikato the grass was burnt to nothing and farmers were beside themselves with worry of how they would feed and water their stock.
Although it's fair to say this winter and spring has been decidedly wet and windy in terms of weather. Still, according to google, there are about 200 days a year on average where it doesn't rain (ie less than 0.1 mm), if that's any comfort.


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## suslik

I know it's been talked about before that New Zealand's houses tend to have damp and mould, but I thought I'd show to those of you that haven't experienced it firsthand yet and are only planning the move, what New Zealand's department of building and housing has to say on this topic.

Dept. of building and housing - that is, the tenancy tribunal, the department that deals with everything that has to do with rentals and landlords and tenants.

Even on their website, "Problem-free renting" (Tenants | Problem-free renting - Department of Building and Housing) they have a LONG list on preventing and dealing with mould. They say amongst other things:
* Wipe condensation off walls and windows when it happens. (Condensation OFF WALLS!)
* Some landlords arrange an annual fumigation (at their cost) as part of the terms of the tenancy agreement. (Fumigation - as in, getting rid of rodents. Yum!)
* wash the shower curtain every few weeks. (How many of you people from US or Europe have ever had to do that where you're from?)

I just find it amusing that it's such a nationally accepted notion that dampness and mould is just "what houses do", and that it's the tenants' responsibility to prevent or remove it.

I tend to think that when houses are well built, they do it by themselves. It's called heating+insulation+ventilation.


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## inhamilton

^ I don't want to sound like I'm always defending NZ, but I think it's worth noting that since 1978, newly built houses have had to have insulation by law. So if you are living in a house built since 1978, it will be insulated, at least around the walls and roof. And many houses built before that time too. As time's gone on, those regulations have become more stringent to include under floor insulation and double glazing (I think that was about 2005).

New Zealand is a humid country, being an island surrounded by ocean, but not EVERY house is damp. The biggest problem is with the old style wooden villas, which generally have no insulation whatsoever. The house I live in doesn't have mould or dampness, apart from some in the bathroom where I admit to having to change the shower curtain semi regularly. We have a woodburner and storage heaters for heating.


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## inhamilton

suslik said:


> * wash the shower curtain every few weeks. (How many of you people from US or Europe have ever had to do that where you're from?)


I believe I had to wash the shower curtain when I was in England?
Houses needn't have mould. It's a matter of ventilating properly and following the guidelines from the link. A handy appliance is a dehumidifier, which sucks out moisture from the air and should solve any dampness issues altogether, if you suffer from it.


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## Rosieprimrose

We have built 3 homes in NZ in the past, all had insulation (post 1978) all had gas heating, that does put a lot of moisture into the home, I open windows and ever had any dampness or mould.
We would love to buy another old property, first thing we would do is to insulate and probably add solar. Good thing about the old homes, the ring and pile foundations make underfloor insulation easy and the roof construction likewise. Last house we owned in NZ was built in 1917, put in insulation top and bottom, a DVS system and gas heating, I wouldn't say that was a small expense, it was something we had to save for, but worth while.
Interesting fact, in our property hunt, and the ten homes on our "View list" have full insulation, half have underfloor heating, two have double glazing, all have two different forms of heating, one has solar and two have ******* water heating, they speed out from ChCh to BOP, interestingly, its the Napier/Hastings homes that have the best heating, they are probably the one needing it the least. Coming from OZ, I do find it strange however that none have rain water tanks, even the Hawkes Bay homes, I did ring the Hastings city council to see if you can put them in, they told me "On a home by home basis if you get a permit" I found that interesting!


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## Earth2Arleigh

InHamilton mentioned that since 1978, insulation has been required in every home. That might be true, but ideas on what constitutes insulation varie. We were in a house that claimed to be insulated, but whoever did the job tore the pink batts apart right down the middle, thus doubling the amount of coverage from each batt. Yeah, people do NOT understand the concept of insulation here! 
Suslik mentioned the 'nationally accepted notion that dampness and mould is just "what houses do"', and that is so true. I've heard resentful complaints about the requirement for insulation turning NZ into a 'nanny state'. Meanwhile, our taxes cover national health care, and families here often spend winter sleeping close together in one heated room. That means that if one person gets bronchitis, flu or third-world diseases like impetigo, they all do. 
Here in NZ, people have shelves in the room their hot water heater is in, so the heat leaking from the hot water heater can keep your clean towels and linens from absorbing moisture and getting moldy . A better idea is to insulate your hot water heater, thus saving electricity which is dear here, and have a house dry enough so mildewed towels aren't an issue. 
Housing here is so bad that a heated towel rack in the bathrooms is not a luxury item, it's a necessity to dry the towels. No one understands that towels dry by themselves in a well-built house.
I know someone in Dunedin (it is COLD in Dunedin!) who has a living room with ½ inch (1.30cm) gaps between the boards. There is no sub-flooring, no skirting around the foundation of the house. There is wall-to-wall carpeting over this floor, and the wind blows straight into the room from the floor. People think this is just fine. (WTF?)
InHamilton also mentioned getting a dehumidifier. Again, only shoddy construction should require a permanently running dehumidifier, or perhaps a house built over a stream. 
I know, because I live on the harbor, exposed to Southerlies and Northerlies, in a house built with ultra-dense insulation, double-paned windows, and solar heated hot water under floor heating. My house is warm and dry always.


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## suslik

inhamilton said:


> Houses needn't have mould. It's a matter of ventilating properly and following the guidelines from the link. A handy appliance is a dehumidifier, which sucks out moisture from the air and should solve any dampness issues altogether, if you suffer from it.


But that's what I mean - when ventilation+insulation+heating are well built and designed, the guidelines on that website don't need to be followed: there won't be condensation on windows (and, god forbid, walls!), windows don't have to be opened each day (because vents do the air circulation in an efficient way, conserving heat whilst getting rid of moisture), plants are okay, curtains won't grow mouldy. Yes, a dehumidifier gets rid of moisture - I have one in my house, too, and run it during winter each night when electricity is cheaper - but that's dealing with the end problem, not the cause. The cause is - houses lose heat through their structure, rooms don't have vents so their only way of airing, really, is through opening doors and windows, and heating to a point of having a healthy home is expensive because of the previous two points. I am not talking about new, expensive houses, but about average rentals in a lower quartile to about median range: the sort of houses that are very often rented by young families with children, who are on limited budgets whilst saving up their own house deposits and often on single incomes.

Yes, new houses are built to a different standard, but a lot of the housing stock is from way back, and even some houses that are relatively new suffer from badly designed building envelopes, ie "leaky home syndrome".

New Zealand has a lot of beautiful things to it - I wouldn't be here otherwise! - but housing isn't one of them.

Oh, and please don't take it the wrong way, it's not a personal attack, but England is known - in Scandinavia at least - as the place with cold, damp houses, so comparing New Zealand houses to England and saying that it's not much different is kind of... well, amusing in a way, because English houses aren't to be looked up to, not when warm, dry homes are discussed. 

Again, it's different with new houses, but the majority of housing stock is from way, way back.

And I have lived in damp, damp places, so I am not comparing this place here to Arizona or something.


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## Earth2Arleigh

Suslik, I agree with you completely.


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## suslik

Earth2Arleigh said:


> Also, I didn't compare housing in England to NZ. I have never lived in England, and wouldn't know about English housing.


That was meant more in response to InHamilton's post in the end of last page


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## Earth2Arleigh

suslik said:


> That was meant more in response to InHamilton's post in the end of last page


Yes, I figured that out and deleted my previous post (apparently as you were writing this one!)


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## suslik

Earth2Arleigh said:


> Yes, I figured that out and deleted my previous post (apparently as you were writing this one!)


Darn. Shouldn't have had to! The story about 7 roommates and a robbery was cool


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## escapedtonz

suslik said:


> England is known - in Scandinavia at least - as the place with cold, damp houses, so comparing New Zealand houses to England and saying that it's not much different is kind of... well, amusing in a way, because English houses aren't to be looked up to, not when warm, dry homes are discussed.


Maybe by Scandinavians who've never been to England!!!
Now I'm born and bred North West England. A land were the sun doesn't shine very often and it always seems cold and wet apart from maybe 4 weeks per year.
I've lived in many houses in my 40 years there and so has my wife, my siblings, parents, in laws etc etc and not one of us has ever lived in a cold, damp house.
Your comment is completely laughable.
English brick houses are the best I've ever lived in and ive lived in houses built from the early 1900's to brand new. They are usually built with a block frame then surrounded with proper brick with a cavity and a moisture barrier (damp course) and proper insulation in walls/floors/ceilings, upvc double glazing, a tiled roof and decent heating systems. They are never damp, never have any condensation problems. It is only old houses that are neglected that seem to suffer from damp but this can easily be rectified by solving the damp ingress and they will quickly dry.
I would never compare an English home to an NZ home as NZ homes aren't a patch on an English home. In my opinion the materials used here are just cheap and nasty but cost a fortune, however it is what it is. 
The only thing wrong with English homes is they are in England and not NZ!!!


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## suslik

escapedtonz said:


> Maybe by Scandinavians who've never been to England!!!
> Now I'm born and bred North West England. A land were the sun doesn't shine very often and it always seems cold and wet apart from maybe 4 weeks per year.
> I've lived in many houses in my 40 years there and so has my wife, my siblings, parents, in laws etc etc and not one of us has ever lived in a cold, damp house.
> Your comment is completely laughable.


If what you say is true then I am happy that your experience is from warm, dry houses.

Mine isn't. I've spent time in Durham and Newcastle in March, and Hertfordshire in May. The houses I was in weren't horrific, but they were a far cry from what I've come across in Sweden, Norway, Finland and Estonia.

I often Skype with my in-laws, they're in England. In winter evenings they often huddle in the ground floor lounge where the log burner is, with the door to the rest of the house shut, to keep in warmth.

My friend lives in outer London. She says winters are cold, inside, and houses where it's warm have exorbitant rents. Another friend goes to England often because of work - same story, says that houses are cold. However - at least they have central heat!

I haven't heard anyone hailing English housing as something to strive for. I promise I'll do some reading to see if there's something to it, what you say.

I don't think my comment was laughable, but if you think it was, well, so be it. Disagreement builds discussion, and I'm all up for that.


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## suslik

suslik said:


> If what you say is true then I am happy that your experience is from warm, dry houses.
> 
> Mine isn't. I've spent time in Durham and Newcastle in March, and Hertfordshire in May. The houses I was in weren't horrific, but they were a far cry from what I've come across in Sweden, Norway, Finland and Estonia.
> 
> I often Skype with my in-laws, they're in England. In winter evenings they often huddle in the ground floor lounge where the log burner is, with the door to the rest of the house shut, to keep in warmth.
> 
> My friend lives in outer London. She says winters are cold, inside, and houses where it's warm have exorbitant rents. Another friend goes to England often because of work - same story, says that houses are cold. However - at least they have central heat!
> 
> I haven't heard anyone hailing English housing as something to strive for. I promise I'll do some reading to see if there's something to it, what you say.
> 
> I don't think my comment was laughable, but if you think it was, well, so be it. Disagreement builds discussion, and I'm all up for that.


Hey, I just got an idea: what if what I'm referring to has to do with lots of housing stock being old, even historic? It would be easy to experience low building standards in places where lots of stuff was built pre-high-standards.


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## suslik

escapedtonz said:


> Maybe by Scandinavians who've never been to England!!!
> Now I'm born and bred North West England. A land were the sun doesn't shine very often and it always seems cold and wet apart from maybe 4 weeks per year.
> I've lived in many houses in my 40 years there and so has my wife, my siblings, parents, in laws etc etc and not one of us has ever lived in a cold, damp house.
> Your comment is completely laughable.


InHamilton, I got very intrigued by your statement about English houses, so I did - guess what? - some googling. 

Energy Saving Trust: "nearly half of householders (44 per cent) claim to live in homes with draught problems, 37 per cent in homes with condensation problems and 28 per cent in homes with mould. All three issues were even higher among renters." Cold, draughty, mouldy, damp: What the UK public think about their homes | Energy Saving Trust

Association for the Conservation of Energy: "The UK is ranked lowest for energy (or fuel) poverty out of 13 western European countries and near the bottom of the other league tables on affordability of space heating (14 out of 15), share of household expenditure spent on energy (11 out of 13), homes in poor state of repair (11 out of 15), thermal performance (6 out of 8), and the gap between current thermal performance and what the optimal level of insulation should be in each country (7 out of 8). Overall, no other country of the 16 assessed performs as poorly as the UK across the range of indicators."
http://www.ukace.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ACE-and-EBR-fact-file-2013-03-Cold-man-of-Europe.pdf

UK Green Building Council: "The UK’s housing stock is amongst the least energy efficient in Europe" 
Retrofit for homes | UK Green Building Council

I am not going to link to articles in Telegraph, The Guardian etc, but there are plenty "mainstream media" that are basically saying the same thing: amongst European Union countries, English housing stock is one of the worst, considering the climate its in.

Still think that what I said is laughable? Doesn't look it, given what I've just read online. Can you please link me to information that says otherwise? It'd be interesting to read.


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## escapedtonz

suslik said:


> InHamilton, I got very intrigued by your statement about English houses, so I did - guess what? - some googling.
> 
> Energy Saving Trust: "nearly half of householders (44 per cent) claim to live in homes with draught problems, 37 per cent in homes with condensation problems and 28 per cent in homes with mould. All three issues were even higher among renters." Cold, draughty, mouldy, damp: What the UK public think about their homes | Energy Saving Trust
> 
> Association for the Conservation of Energy: "The UK is ranked lowest for energy (or fuel) poverty out of 13 western European countries and near the bottom of the other league tables on affordability of space heating (14 out of 15), share of household expenditure spent on energy (11 out of 13), homes in poor state of repair (11 out of 15), thermal performance (6 out of 8), and the gap between current thermal performance and what the optimal level of insulation should be in each country (7 out of 8). Overall, no other country of the 16 assessed performs as poorly as the UK across the range of indicators."
> http://www.ukace.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ACE-and-EBR-fact-file-2013-03-Cold-man-of-Europe.pdf
> 
> UK Green Building Council: "The UK&#146;s housing stock is amongst the least energy efficient in Europe"
> Retrofit for homes | UK Green Building Council
> 
> I am not going to link to articles in Telegraph, The Guardian etc, but there are plenty "mainstream media" that are basically saying the same thing: amongst European Union countries, English housing stock is one of the worst, considering the climate its in.
> 
> Still think that what I said is laughable? Doesn't look it, given what I've just read online. Can you please link me to information that says otherwise? It'd be interesting to read.


Yes I absolutely think what you said is laughable - period.
No amount of Google research will change my mind.
Been there, done it, lived it and got the t shirt for over 40 years so I have real life experience of life in english homes and know many many many people who would agree with me.
Maybe I was just lucky, however I doubt it.
Maybe it depends on the state of repair, age, area of the UK, quality of the owner and their attitude towards keeping the home maintained.
All I can say is my family and I have always maintained every home we have owned to a high standard so have never had any issues.
Granted there may have been issues on the survey prior to buying - maybe a leaky roof causing damp in a wall somewhere but as I said, spend the money, fix the problem and the house is back to toasty and dry.

Unsure why you are making assumptions based on Google results or the opinion of Scandanavians instead of using actual facts or personal experience.....you don't believe everything you are told or you read in the paper do you?


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## suslik

escapedtonz said:


> Unsure why you are making assumptions based on Google results or the opinion of Scandanavians instead of using actual facts or personal experience.....you don't believe everything you are told or you read in the paper do you?


You mean, why do I believe research papers more than one guy on an expat forum who claims otherwise?


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## Rosieprimrose

Oh for goodness sakes, I feel sorry for the hundreds of people wading through this tripe for serious information, no one can make blanket statements and come away without appeaing as anything else other than laughable, anyway I write this to in attempt to get some balance for those who need advice.
Yes new Zealand homes can be damp, its as said, a combination of the historical method of building, climate, location and the heating or lack of it and lifestyle of the owner/renter and for the record i lived in an apartment in Denmark that was riddled with mould, the walls were black inside and green slime ran down the stairwell, but I'm not so ignorant as to assume that all homes in Denmark are like that or all Danes don't care about insulation.
If you buy or rent a New Zealand home prior to 1977 there is no guarantee that it has any insulation, so if your buying an older home you get that checked on your building inspection. If you buy or rent a home built between 1977 and the late 1990's there was a building code for SOME insulation and that was checked by a building inspector from the local council. Building after this time have stricter codes, they are not perfect by any means and as the wife of a builder who has worked in New Zealand, ruled by the threat of earthquakes, hence why you really only see double brick cavity homes in Dunedin. 
Some people, in some areas, the Hutt Valley for one, put in gas heating, without venting it outside, this causes a huge amount of moisture inside, as does drying clothes inside on drying racks and cooking on stove top without lids also contribute moisture.
If you are buying a property in NZ, do consider the insulation issues, they are are real, but, in most cases easily fixed. I have lived in new Zealand for over thirty years, lived in 9 homes, built 3, and NEVER had mould or damp problems, my friends likewise. Living in the Hutt Valley, in Woburn, my neighbours all spent money on serious heating and insulation, no, not one of us put in double glazing, mostly because we liked our beautiful stained glass windows we spent hundred of hours restoring, our problem, we lived with it, end of story.
if your renting you should ask about insulation, there are sub standard rental accommodation all over the world, good grief, go anywhere and you see that, down the road from me in Sydney there are rental homes falling apart, its not right, but it happens EVERYWHERE.
I agree that New Zealand homes could be built better, I could argue successfully they, on average are a darn side better than in OZ, but thats beside the point. 
Fact, we are looking to buy a new home in NZ, we are surprised at attention to heating and insulation in the homes we are interested in, its an improvement in what we saw 15 years ago when we left to go to OZ. As power prices increase its logical to assume more people will turn there sights to these issues. 
We are looking at buying rental properties on our return to NZ and are stunned at the new codes on heating for such properties, we can NOT now rent out a property with an open fire, it must have a heating source that complies to the building standards, driven by pollution issues I believe.
Every homes in NZ if different, look seriously and take professional advice by getting a building inspection before you buy, this will bring to your attention problems about the construction and alterations done in the past and it is a fact Kiwi's do like to do things themselves, I really think its not so much a money thing and a pride thing. Generations of SOME Kiwi's have grown up with the idea that they should be able to fix things and hence the "Do it yourself" attitude has been intrenched. However to make laughable blanket statements about all homes and all New Zealanders or anywhere else is not factual, insulating, and plain ignorant. Yes, no where is perfect, I must say, we are really pleasantly surprised at the standards of property we have seen in NZ so far, the substandard ones we see as a great opportunity to buy and improve. 
When moving to NZ and buying a property please ALWAYS get a building inspection clause put into your offer, most properties are fine, but as everywhere some are a problem. On the other side of the coin, some properties in NZ are built to exceptional world standards and come with certification to prove this. As said before ,over half our properties we are looking at have under floor heating and fully insulated, yes it could be we are looking at homes in the upper middle price bracket, but facts are facts, for the record, most people consider it wise to not believe anything on google and have the intelligence to check random facts on this or any other public forum.


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## Rosieprimrose

BTW, sorry for the typos, don't like working off my phone, anyway, i would like to draw attention to the "Healthy homes New Zealand" scheme, where a government subsidy is being given to help insulate homes, in many cases its very low cost or free.


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## japongt

Greetings!

This thread was so informative! Least I can do is bump its 3 years old roots so that other peeps can read it as well.

I'm going to Auckland next week on a sort of #YOLO #SWAG #CASHMONEY attitude. Will things work out? No idea but I gotta give it a shot. I'm also a very huggable person, so I hope to meet some huggable kiwi's!

Btw how come only NZ and AUS get this "down under" nickname thing? Just cause they're in the southern hemisphere? What about all the other countries in the world that are on the southern hemisphere? Never heard such thing in Uruguay... Oh well, people sure come up with silly things. It's like when my girlfriend would say this "pot calling the kettle black" saying, then I'm like "uh... most pots I've seen are actually brown, not black" horrible saying I tell ya.


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## jawnbc

You mean the scheme for which privately owned homes isn't applicable? The one where a landlord has to agree to contribute or it's a no-go? The one for people with community service cards? 

Without landlord cooperation..doesn't happen. 




Rosieprimrose said:


> BTW, sorry for the typos, don't like working off my phone, anyway, i would like to draw attention to the "Healthy homes New Zealand" scheme, where a government subsidy is being given to help insulate homes, in many cases its very low cost or free.


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## escapedtonz

jawnbc said:


> You mean the scheme for which privately owned homes isn't applicable? The one where a landlord has to agree to contribute or it's a no-go? The one for people with community service cards?
> 
> Without landlord cooperation..doesn't happen.


Are you referring to this one ?

https://www.energywise.govt.nz/funding-and-support/free-insulation-and-installation-support/

Says it's for people who are home owners or tenants with a community services card and.....
Mentions a landlord may be asked to contribute :confused2:


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## SergeBayzer1

It can be hard moving to a totally new place - but like with work, six months may not be enough time to acclimatize to something new, something more like a year or two. I know that's different from migrating to a new city and it can be tough if you don't have a support group. Did you come by yourself or with your family?

As for your work, try to talk it would with your boss or a colleague there. You might need a challenge there if you're bored, and you never know, you might make friends that way.

I guess you also have to think about the reasons why you came in the first place. Hope you figure it out!


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## Capri.Mgm

Yeah it seems exactly the same here in Wellington. I moved here from Perth 6 months ago for work and it's exactly the same. The people are pretentious and superficial (although some seem genuinely friendly). The thing is although they seem friendly they never really let you into their circles. In Australia if you're a friend of a friend then you are accepted but that's not the case here. Also, work is the same oh and I get bullied big time for being Australian. They seem to think Australia cares about NZ the same way but NZ is rarely mentioned. I get victimised and bullied on an hourly basis here.

Oh and after travelling around the world twice and spending a whole winter in the snow, Wellington is the coldest place I've ever been too. Whatever temperature they say on the news or on paper is a lie. To me it feels like 10-20 degrees less. It's way too cold for me. The quality of housing is really bad too with hardly any insulation or heating. Might as well be living in a cave.

I came with an open mind and have had no issues in fitting in and living comfortably in heaps of other countries but Wellington and NZ it seems in general is really bad.


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## inhamilton

^ haha. Nice of you to bump the thread again to go with the other times. Lol. Your post is ridiculous, in my opinion.


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## Capri.Mgm

inhamilton said:


> ^ haha. Nice of you to bump the thread again to go with the other times. Lol. Your post is ridiculous, in my opinion.


My post is ridiculous? Just saying it how it is. Believe what you will.


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## inhamilton

Capri.Mgm said:


> My post is ridiculous? Just saying it how it is. Believe what you will.


Yep. I think it's ridiculous. Up until a few days ago most of the North Island, including Wellington according to a friend of mine there, have been walking around in short sleeved shirts with temperatures in the low 20s, and we're just 4 weeks from mid winter. There's no way I can do that for the month of November anywhere in Britain, for example. And also I think it's ridiculous because I think New Zealanders are not a bad bunch of people and their/our friendliness is world renowned. Much like the Australians, as a matter of fact. At least we're a step ahead of the Aussies in some human rights issues.


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## inhamilton

According to a survey by Forbes of 3385 expats in 100 countries. New Zealand is rated as the friendliest country in the world for expats 

Link : Forbes Welcome


Just a view that is different to your own and Toni's :

"New Zealand, in the top spot, had high scores in all four categories. Seventy-five percent of respondents living there reported that they were integrating well in the local community; in Australia it was 77% and in South Africa 79%.

“New Zealanders as a whole seem like happy people, and that translates into friendly, helpful and kind people,” notes American expat Kim Brinster. Other positive aspects, she says, include a “pitch-in-and-help mentality,” as well as navigable government and health-care systems. A former New York City bookstore owner, she relocated two years ago to Waiheke Island, off Auckland, to be with her New Zealander partner. She has no plans to leave."


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## escapedtonz

Capri.Mgm said:


> Yeah it seems exactly the same here in Wellington. I moved here from Perth 6 months ago for work and it's exactly the same. The people are pretentious and superficial (although some seem genuinely friendly). The thing is although they seem friendly they never really let you into their circles. In Australia if you're a friend of a friend then you are accepted but that's not the case here. Also, work is the same oh and I get bullied big time for being Australian. They seem to think Australia cares about NZ the same way but NZ is rarely mentioned. I get victimised and bullied on an hourly basis here.
> 
> Oh and after travelling around the world twice and spending a whole winter in the snow, Wellington is the coldest place I've ever been too. Whatever temperature they say on the news or on paper is a lie. To me it feels like 10-20 degrees less. It's way too cold for me. The quality of housing is really bad too with hardly any insulation or heating. Might as well be living in a cave.
> 
> I came with an open mind and have had no issues in fitting in and living comfortably in heaps of other countries but Wellington and NZ it seems in general is really bad.


We didn't get that whatsoever after living there for 2.5 years. We found the majority of people to be really friendly and happy which was a marked improvement over the actions of people back home in the UK. It was a huge refreshing experience, saying hi to virtually every person you pass in the street.
Also don't share your statement that Kiwi's seem friendly but never really let you in to their circles......hasn't been like that for us at all. We integrated quite easily with Kiwi's, both at work and at home and wasn't long until we were also mixing with their family and friends, playing golf, going to family BBQ's etc.

Bullied / Victimized ???
Isn't it just more innocent sledging than actually being bullied / victimized ?
I came to a job where a team of 30 or so work closely together and over half of those are Kiwi's and just the fact that I'm a Pom means I endure heaps of sledging, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.....and I give as good as I get. I'd be more concerned if I did't get any as that would mean we weren't having fun at work 

After 2.5 years in Wellington it was majority the weather that made us look at warmer places to live. It was mainly the wind that we didn't like that has an effect on the ambient temperature more than the rain. I suffered lots as I rode a motorbike often and the wind affected me, in some cases bordering on dangerous. It also made a beautiful looking day seem cold and too windy for sitting outside to have lunch etc. Usually it was around 3 - 5 degrees different than the weather forecast report because of the wind chill but if you know which weather report to look at it also gives you the "Feels Like!" temperature.

Quality of housing depends on what type and age of housing you are looking at. May all depend on budget as I can't say any of the three houses we lived in when living in Wellington were poorly constructed or had any insulation issues. They were all dry, free from damp and mold, seemed to be insulated and had heating that could keep it toasty warm assuming you were OK to pay for that heating. Yes, the quality wasn't anywhere near as good as we were used to coming from the UK with our brick and block homes with awesome UPVC double glazing, cavity wall insulation yada yada but to say they are like caves is taking it a bit far. 
Granted there is some crap housing out there that is cheap as chips but you wouldn't even let your dog stay in them. You get what you pay for.

Our experience seems to have been polar opposite to yours.


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