# There are answers to these questions somewhere, I'm sure



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

but I've spent an hour looking at threads for help and I thought I might put everything together here.
We're moving to the Estepona /Marbella area in December, staying in my son's house whilst we look for a suitable property for long-term rent. My son is planning to buy us a house in two-three years time.
We have sold all our property in the UK and don't want to buy in Spain. We just want to spend our capital on idle living. We are not looking for work, we have pension/investment income.
We are currently living in Prague, well, a ten minute drive from the city centre. We are paying 1450 euros a month rent for a large-ish house with a rather ancient pool and (to our horror) utility bills - electricity, pool maintenance, water, rubbish collection- come to a further 420 euros a month. The cost of food etc is quite high, considering the quality of most fresh produce and meat and dairy products is low.
Summers are OK here but winters can be harsh - three years ago we had snow from December to early April and temperatures went as low as -17C.
So it's off to sunny Spain.
Now my questions: we are hoping to rent away from the main towns for around 1000 - 1500 euros a month - is that feasible?
Roughly how much per month would we expect to pay for utilities? For a three bedroomed house with pool? 
We are two adults, one very moderate smoker, one teetotaller. I don't drink much.
One of us is a fish-eating vegetarian. We have a large carnivorous dog, though.
Roughly how much can we expect to spend on groceries?
We are bringing our cars with us, both left-hand drive, purchased in Germany via a UK company, currently on UK plates and on yearly Europe-wide insurance from a UK insurer. We will register them in Spain as soon as we can. Is car insurance generally cheaper in Spain than in the UK? One of the vehicles is a fairly expensive Merc, the other a fairly old 4x4.
We will obviously need internet, mobile phone etc and I have heard that you need a Spanish bank account before you can take out contracts on these. We currently have offshore euro and sterling accounts - will these do?
I can't think of any other questions at the present time. I speak reasonably fluent Spanish and anyone who has lived in the Czech Republic will have learned to cope with bureaucracy, crazy drivers, corrupt police,cheating waiters etc etc. From my experience of Spain, limited though it is, I don't think we'll meet these problems there.
Any advice would be greatly valued. 
People often assume that Central and Eastern Europe are 'cheaper' but believe me, if you want a good standard of living, that's not so.
As someone on a thread here remarked, sunshine is cheap......


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

well I cant answer all your questions, but I'll have a go at the ones i think I know the answer to

I think your budget for rent is fine, rental prices seem to be dropping at the moment, although Marbella/Estepona are the expensive end of Spain, so you maybe at the top end of your budget for what you want????????

Utilities: we've just had our electricity bill, we have a four bedroom villa with a pool and we run on only electric and our bill for 2 months was 180 euros (bare in mind things like air con use a fair bit in the summer), I dont know what the water bill is (my husband deals with that), but it isnt dear. Thats all we pay for on top of our rent. Gas (if you have it) is I think bought by the bottle, I'm not sure, but I think a small bottle costs around 14 euros.

My food bill: Thats for me, two children, three small dogs and a husband who's here half the time (he commutes) Its usually around 100 - 120 euros euros a week, cigarettes are very cheap 2euros a pack and alcohol is cheap too, I've seen it as low as 0.95 euros and its not bad. Food is going up with inflation, but its a gradual thing.

Petrol and diesel are all over the place but cheaper than the UK. The beginning of the summer it went up to 1.33 euros, but has now dropped to 1.13 euros. when i first moved here in Feb it was 1.04 euros

To get a contract on a mobile phone or to make any big purchases, sort car out etc you must have an NIE number, which you get from your local town hall when you move here. Its not expensive, but involves filling in forms and a bit of waiting around. We took a gestor with us when we got ours, who made the process a lot easier.

Thats about all I can tell you, but its a start!!

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Our water bill is between €40 - €80ish per quarter depending on time of year as we lose water from the pool in the summer.

Our "council tax" is €400 a year, but of course that will vary area to area and on property size

Your car will need to be matriculated to Spanish plates as soon as you move here with the intention to reside .... I think you have 30 days, and whilst on UK plates here it MUST be legal in the country of registration, i.e. MOT

You'll need NIE's and residence certificates

.......... and at the moment some wellies and raincoat as its thunder, lightening, driving rain and wind here at the moment


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Our "council tax" is €400 a year, but of course that will vary area to area and on property size


Our "property tax" is incorporated in our rent, so we dont pay it ourselves, our landlord does. However, compared to the UK it is so cheap - and we get our bins emplied every day, with no restrictions or hassle!!!

Jo


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Hi there and welcome to the forum,

I think you should get a decent sized house with a pool for your budget

We spend 100 Euros a week on food shopping (on average) and our utility bills are very reasonable E.g. Electricity, Gas and Water = 150 Euros each two months, but we don't have a pool or Air con

Community tax is 400 per year, but as Stravinsky has correctly pointed out, this varies depending on where you live.

You do need to change your plates to Spanish ones.

Regards, Dave 
PS. Estepona is quite nice, we liked went their in June and liked it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Thaks, Jo. You've been very helpful. We could spend more on rent but we've seen quite a few properties with pool for less than 1000 euros a month, but admittedly that was more towards the Malaga area.
It seems from your post that two adults plus dog could live comfortably on 1500 euros a month, including utilities, petrol but excluding rent. We won't be making lots of car journeys. We do need to be fairly near to an airport as until the end of July 2009 I shall be flying roughly twice a month to London - it has to be Heathrow so I can't use budget airlines. Gibraltar seems the best bet for regular BA flights at convenient times. We live about ten minutes from Prague airport so we've been used to easy access when flying anywhere. When we first came here, we didn't notice any aircraft noise but in the last few months it's become very intrusive.
We are fairly open-minded about exact location but want to be within half to an hour's drive from Cancelada, which is roughly halfway between Marbella and Estepona. We don't want to be on the coast, about 30km inland would be fine. We don't want to be in an urbanication, however small. A house on the edge of a town or village is what we'd really like.
It seems that most longterm rental contracts are for eleven months - is there usually an option to renew? We don't want to be perpetually carting our considerable amount of household possessions and furniture from house to house for the next couple of years!
If you know of anyone with a property to rent long term to very considerate and respectable tenants, please let us know.
Thanks again for your advice.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

If you wish to stay warm through the Winter,dont go too far inland.
30km could be too far in most inland areas, which are on much higher ground.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> If you wish to stay warm through the Winter,dont go too far inland.
> 30km could be too far in most inland areas, which are on much higher ground.



Thanks, that's helpful.
And thanks to everyone for advice. Any more helpful tips would be very welcome.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Another question? What's the crime rate like around the Marbella/Malaga area? Here in Prague pickpocketing and 'mobbing'- four or five people crowding round you - on public transport is rife but not usually violent. Burglary seems rare.
We've managed to fend off five attempts in three years - fortunately only curses and threats wre needed...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Another question? What's the crime rate like around the Marbella/Malaga area? Here in Prague pickpocketing and 'mobbing'- four or five people crowding round you - on public transport is rife but not usually violent. Burglary seems rare.
> We've managed to fend off five attempts in three years - fortunately only curses and threats wre needed...



I'm in the Malaga region and I'm sure crime goes on, it does everywhere, I've not experienced any and I dont know anyone that has. I dont know any facts or figures, but i feel safe enough.

That said, I read the local newspapers here and pick pocketing is occasionally mentioned and the odd burglary. I dont think its wildly out of control!?!

Jo


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm in the Malaga region and I'm sure crime goes on, it does everywhere, I've not experienced any and I dont know anyone that has. I dont know any facts or figures, but i feel safe enough.
> 
> That said, I read the local newspapers here and pick pocketing is occasionally mentioned and the odd burglary. I dont think its wildly out of control!?!
> 
> Jo



It's more of a nuisance than a real worry here. You have to be constantly alert but then that's the case everywhere, unfortunately. If you have a 'foreign' i.e. not Skoda car or a car on foreign plates in Prague you need to keep it securely garaged or you'll soon find bits missing and/or vandalised.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> It's more of a nuisance than a real worry here. You have to be constantly alert but then that's the case everywhere, unfortunately. If you have a 'foreign' i.e. not Skoda car or a car on foreign plates in Prague you need to keep it securely garaged or you'll soon find bits missing and/or vandalised.



Its not like that here - well i havent found that to be the case.

jo


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Its not like that here - well i havent found that to be the case.
> 
> jo


Good!! Yet another reason for moving -as well as the fact that we've had the heating on for a week....
How about tv? We are football mad and have Sky (the full package) but we can't get BBC or ITV without a 2m dish. We have also a Czech satellite provider, UPC, so we can get to watch most Premier and international matches - we've just watched the Everton/Liverpool Derby, now watching Man U v Bolton.
Will we be able to get Sky with our little (60cm?) dish?
Once again, thanks for your advice etc


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Will we be able to get Sky with our little (60cm?) dish?
> Once again, thanks for your advice etc



Probably not. My dish is 1.8 and I get most of the channels inc BBC ITV, but they do drop off in the evening later on


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Good!! Yet another reason for moving -as well as the fact that we've had the heating on for a week....
> How about tv? We are football mad and have Sky (the full package) but we can't get BBC or ITV without a 2m dish. We have also a Czech satellite provider, UPC, so we can get to watch most Premier and international matches - we've just watched the Everton/Liverpool Derby, now watching Man U v Bolton.
> Will we be able to get Sky with our little (60cm?) dish?
> Once again, thanks for your advice etc


hhmmm, you're getting too technical for me now lol!! We do have a very large sky dish, I dont know how big, but we had to have the small one that was here replaced. We get all UK channels, inc BBC, ITV etc. I dont know how, but I think my husband has a sky package in the UK and brought the box and the card over here?????????????

He sorts it out and I watch it - good arrangement!!!

Jo


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> hhmmm, you're getting too technical for me now lol!! We do have a very large sky dish, I dont know how big, but we had to have the small one that was here replaced. We get all UK channels, inc BBC, ITV etc. I dont know how, but I think my husband has a sky package in the UK and brought the box and the card over here?????????????
> 
> He sorts it out and I watch it - good arrangement!!!
> 
> Jo



Sounds like a 2m dish. 
One last question: (for today, anyway) -we're driving down from Prague at the end of November, a 1600 mile trip. We're planning on three days as we have two vehicles and four drivers. Our furniture etc will be stored here by the removal company until we find somewhere permanent. So we'll be taking a couple of suitcases with clothes for a month or so as my son's house has everything else we need.
How warm will it be in December? Will it still be shorts weather? Should we pack typical UK winter clothes? 
You need Polar explorar gear here in winter, don't suppose there's any need to pack that kind of thing? 
Do you know about that eleven month lease clause that seems to be in most long term rental contracts?
Just realised - that's two questions!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Sounds like a 2m dish.
> One last question: (for today, anyway) -we're driving down from Prague at the end of November, a 1600 mile trip. We're planning on three days as we have two vehicles and four drivers. Our furniture etc will be stored here by the removal company until we find somewhere permanent. So we'll be taking a couple of suitcases with clothes for a month or so as my son's house has everything else we need.
> How warm will it be in December? Will it still be shorts weather? Should we pack typical UK winter clothes?
> You need Polar explorar gear here in winter, don't suppose there's any need to pack that kind of thing?
> ...


I dont full understand the 11 month lease thing. I do know that its something to do with longer leases leading to the tennants getting too many rights, so I believe that the longest lease you can get is 11 months, but you can renew it - I hope, cos I dont wanna leave here!!

Clothes: Right now its wet and chilly here. I'm wearing a long sleeved jumper and jeans, a waterproof jacket if I go out. I have heard that last december was very warm and christmas day, people were swimming in their pools!?

I guess you'll need the kind of clothes you'd expect to need for a British spring/summer!!

Jo


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I dont full understand the 11 month lease thing. I do know that its something to do with longer leases leading to the tennants getting too many rights, so I believe that the longest lease you can get is 11 months, but you can renew it - I hope, cos I dont wanna leave here!!
> 
> Clothes: Right now its wet and chilly here. I'm wearing a long sleeved jumper and jeans, a waterproof jacket if I go out. I have heard that last december was very warm and christmas day, people were swimming in their pools!?
> 
> ...


Thanks for all your posts, Jo. I'll leave you in peace .....for the time being
By the way, leases here are usually for two years renewable. I guess that's got something to do with tenants who stay longer having more rights.
Landlords here have a bad reputation. We've been lucky, ours has been good - he maintains the large gardens and the pool at no extra cost. 
The house we rent is lovely - four bedrooms and a huge living room with lots of interesting wooden panelling and ceiling decorations everywhere. We'll really miss it. But we won't miss the poor food and poor food hygiene in shops as well as the very cold winters -m a novelty the first time you experience a metre of snow and minus 15 C but a novelty that soon wears off. Plus , as I said, living here is expensive, unless you are prepared to drop your standards which we are not.
The Czech crown has appreciated by over 30% against the £ over the last year. That's much worse than the £/euro depreciation, which I think has averaged 12 -15% over the same period.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Hi again,

Contracts

11 month contracts are the norm in Andalucia (not so all of Spain) and its done to minimise the rights of the tennant. You can renew the contract as long as you agree with the owner prior to the 11th month.

Crime

I don't live that way, but both times we have been to Marbella other people have told us to be careful with our belongings as they had both had things stolen (bag including car keys and camera). So the key would seem to be to not leave things on show or they might well go missing.

Where to live

I think Jo should be able to help on this one and from what you have said so far, it may well be worth taking a look at near where Jo lives, as near to the Airport, albeit Malaga Airport not Gibraltar 

Good luck, Dave


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> Where to live
> 
> I think Jo should be able to help on this one and from what you have said so far, it may well be worth taking a look at near where Jo lives, as near to the Airport, albeit Malaga Airport not Gibraltar


Yes, my area is the best LOL!! 

Jo


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks, Dave and Jo. And the others.It's good to know there are so many helpful people out there. We were lucky when we first came to Prague as I had been visiting twice a year for many, many years so knew what to expect and had good friends who helped us over the initial settling in. I have spent a considerable amount of time in Spain over the years and as I said my son and daughter-in-law have a property here but I wouldn't claim to know the whys and wherefores of life in Espana...
We're reasonably flexible about location but want to be around Marbella/Estepona, maybe up to 20km inland, bearing in mind your advice, Dave.
We aren't terribly social - not unfriendly, though!! - and spend most of our time reading, lying around in the sun and taking long walks early in the morning and late in the evening with our much-loved Rhodesian Ridgeback, Our Little Azor. Our background is business/professional, very ordinary and boring. So we want to be in a separate house in a quiet area but not isolated, miles from anywhere. Wild nightlife is not a requirement, not now Good restaurants are though....
Reading all your posts has made me feel really positive about the move. I'm an ultra-cautious person by nature and tend to see the downsides before the more positive aspects.
Two more months here.....the sun is shining and it's a lovely Central European autumn day so time for Azor's walk.


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