# Assets/ death.



## barol (Nov 7, 2010)

A friend of mine passed away in January and his partner has been told that she must not sell/dispose of anything until she has completed all necessary registrations and paid taxes. How do the spanish deal with this problem when , I understand, they wait 4years to avoid duties etc. ? At the moment there is a car and quad bike which could easily be sold to help her financially but a solicitor has told her she cannot sell them. Anyone else been/dealt with this problem ? Thanks.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Not personally but a friend of mine had a similar problem.

When her husband died the joint bank account was frozen. They were both pensioners receiving UK state pension paid into the joint Spanish account.

It took ages before she was able to get at her own pension.

In Spain, having joint bank accounts is not such a good idea.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

For sure ... for instance you cant sell a villa to pay the taxes on it!
Having said that, in this area there would be hardly any taxes to pay if it is between married partners / partners. I thought it had gone that way in Murcia as well, but clearly I am wrong.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

I wonder if the clue is in the word 'partner' - perhaps they are trying to find a next of kin.


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## barol (Nov 7, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> I wonder if the clue is in the word 'partner' - perhaps they are trying to find a next of kin.


As a couple they had been together 27 years and to best of my belief there is no next of kin. A will had been made , in Spain, and notarised. Somehow can't see a spanish family leaving a car in the garage for 4 years.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

barol said:


> As a couple they had been together 27 years and to best of my belief there is no next of kin. A will had been made , in Spain, and notarised. Somehow can't see a spanish family leaving a car in the garage for 4 years.


Yes although if they are UK citizens and made a will there as should normally be done, the English will takes precedent as far as that is concerned, i.e. it isnt treated like a Spanish will as far as who is left what is concerned.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

If the spaniards do wait 4 years 6 months & 1 day to get out of paying tax then the 1st thing they do when someone dies is not to tell anyone ! Even my bank manager said to ensure that the account was emptied before telling him ! & both the wife & I are signatories on each others accounts to ensure that we can ensure the minimum is left in an account . 
It can be a problem if there are solicitors involved.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

The law in Spain is very different to that in UK.

In UK, the inheritance is 'inherited' and then any tax can be paid out of it (house, car, cash etc.)

In Spain it is a succession tax. Before you inherit anything, the tax must be paid. This is why so many people choose to reject any inheritance.


The thing about not declaring a death for over 4 years is that it is ILLEGAL and I would hope that people on here are not proposing that this is an acceptable avenue for anyone to pursue!

Perhaps a better avenue to pursue would be some form of insurance which would pay out on death and cover any potential tax bill.

This is also why ex-pats need to be fiscally resident in Spain in order to take advantage of the many (tax) allowances.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

It is all so much simpler if you draw up a Spanish will in respect of all assets in Spain. All you have to do is ensure that there is a clause at the beginning stating that you wish to have your assets treated as they would be in your country of origin, i.e. if you are British, you can leave everything to your spouse which you can't under Spanish law. You can even have a double column will where in one column is the Spanish version and in the adjacent column is the English/French/Welsh, etc. version


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> It is all so much simpler if you draw up a Spanish will in respect of all assets in Spain. All you have to do is ensure that there is a clause at the beginning stating that you wish to have your assets treated as they would be in your country of origin, i.e. if you are British, you can leave everything to your spouse which you can't under Spanish law. You can even have a double column will where in one column is the Spanish version and in the adjacent column is the English/French/Welsh, etc. version


Errr .... but if you havent drawn up a British will that mirrors your Spanish one then you may have a few issues. The advice given time and time again on both sides is have a British *and* a Spanish will drawn up


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> Errr .... but if you havent drawn up a British will that mirrors your Spanish one then you may have a few issues. The advice given time and time again on both sides is have a British *and* a Spanish will drawn up


I was assuming that anyone with assets in the UK or wherever would have a will in the country in which the assets are situated.

Can make a lot of mistakes typing 'assets' too quickly.


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## barol (Nov 7, 2010)

I was under the impression that if your assets were here in spain that spanish law would prevail. Are people telling me that if I make a british will leaving my spanish estate to my grandchildren in england then there would be no taxes ? I'm getting confused .


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*Will*

As I see it, you make a Spanish Will which says that you want all your assets to be treated in accordance with your English Will and you make you English Will to say what you want doing with your estate - that way the Spanish are kept out of totally.


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## barol (Nov 7, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> As I see it, you make a Spanish Will which says that you want all your assets to be treated in accordance with your English Will and you make you English Will to say what you want doing with your estate - that way the Spanish are kept out of totally.


So the Spanish authorities will forego any revenue that could be gained in the 'normal' way ?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

barol said:


> So the Spanish authorities will forego any revenue that could be gained in the 'normal' way ?




Absolutely NOT, they will still want their 2Kg of flesh.


Take legal advice on this as their are so many ways of reducing your potential tax bill in BOTH countries.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

barol said:


> I was under the impression that if your assets were here in spain that spanish law would prevail. Are people telling me that if I make a british will leaving my spanish estate to my grandchildren in england then there would be no taxes ? I'm getting confused .


I think you're getting confused with Spanish Succession Law and Inheritance Tax. If you're domiciled in the UK ( which you probably are), then you can distribute your Spanish assets in accordance with UK law, as opposed to Spanish Law, which forces you to distribute 1/3 to your children, another 1/3 to your children with a life interest to you partner if you have one, and the remaining 1/3 as you wish. Under UK you can leave the lot to your partner if you want, or your grandchildren. Whatever you decide, it is still subject to Spanish inheritance tax, as technically , are your UK assets if you are a Spanish resident for tax purposes, but in practice nobody worries about IK assets.


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## barol (Nov 7, 2010)

CapnBilly said:


> I think you're getting confused with Spanish Succession Law and Inheritance Tax. If you're domiciled in the UK ( which you probably are), then you can distribute your Spanish assets in accordance with UK law, as opposed to Spanish Law, which forces you to distribute 1/3 to your children, another 1/3 to your children with a life interest to you partner if you have one, and the remaining 1/3 as you wish. Under UK you can leave the lot to your partner if you want, or your grandchildren. Whatever you decide, it is still subject to Spanish inheritance tax, as technically , are your UK assets if you are a Spanish resident for tax purposes, but in practice nobody worries about IK assets.


Thank you. Myself and the original persons involved all live (permanently) in Spain, so assume the Spanish Succession Law applies. Dont think my children will be too happy to be faced with an Inheritance Tax bill when my number comes up LOL. Must be a bit thick as still don't understand the reasons why the lady can't sell the car.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

barol said:


> Thank you. Myself and the original persons involved all live (permanently) in Spain, so assume the Spanish Succession Law applies. Dont think my children will be too happy to be faced with an Inheritance Tax bill when my number comes up LOL. Must be a bit thick as still don't understand the reasons why the lady can't sell the car.


]

Because you cant sell the assets of an estate to raise funds for IHT.

Just a note, this is a complicated issue, and I would take advice from a competent solicitor. Your friend is not necessarily going to pay any tax because there are allowance, including a 99% allowance in many areas for a main residence 

_"In some ACs, spouses and children can receive a 99% reduction in the inheritance tax payable on death. This reduction currently applies in the Canary Islands, Balearics, Murcia Region, Madrid, and Valencia Community."_


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

barol said:


> I was under the impression that if your assets were here in spain that spanish law would prevail. Are people telling me that if I make a british will leaving my spanish estate to my grandchildren in england then there would be no taxes ? I'm getting confused .


Under Spanish law, your assets will be divided as per that law. Simply:

This means that you can only freely dispose of one third of your assets in Spain. The line of inheritance, after making some allowance to the spouse plus half your jointly owned property including any house, plus he or she will have usage of the other half during his or her lifetime, will be firstly to any children in equal parts (you cannot disown any of them nor "cut them off without a penny"). If you are officially resident in Andalucía, there are various tax breaks for inheritors who are also officially resident in Andalucía and who will each receive less that €125,000. In addition to the already hefty tax reduction of 95% on the testator's habitual residence when left to family members, this rises to 99.99% when the home is also the main residence of the inheritor (usually the spouse or a child living at home) - this only applies to the first €120,000 of its value. Unmarried and same-sex couples registered with the Andalucian regstry of de facto couples can also get this reduction. One main stipulation is the property may not be sold for 10 years and the testator must have held an official residence permit for at least three years and have lived in the property being transmitted as his/her principal residence for at least three years.

If you die intestate, the estate will be divided under Spanish law as above whether you like it or not.

However, as a foreigner *legally registered *in Spain, under Article 9 of the Spanish Civil Code, you can make a will that distributes your assets as if you and the assets were in your home country. To do this you see a Notary and have a will drawn up that states clearly at the start, you wish to exercise your right to have your Wiil made and executed under the law of your own country. The will will then normally be drawn up in two columns Spanish in one and whatever language you require in the other. Once it is signed and witnessed, it will be sent to the Central Registry who will keep it until such time as it is required to be put into force or changed or revoked.

No you don't get out of tax which is paid by the inheritor not (as in UK) by the estate. There is no large exemption from inheritance tax. The law provided for total exemption from taxes only for legacies under €16,000 (to each inheritor - not total). For example, if you are married and have a property worth €120,000, your half equals €60,000 and you leave it, divided equally between your spouse and three children, each will receive an inheritance worth €15,000 and pay no tax. This exemption applies only to close relatives (only once removed). If the inheriror is under 21 there is a greater exemption up to a mximum of €48,000 at age 13. For those twice removed (uncles, cousins, etc) the exemption is halved to €8,000. For more distant relatives it is nil.

The foregoing is just a generalisation and the various figures will be subject to change according to inflation so get proper advice.

*Please note I am not a legal advisor either here in Spain or in any other country so the foregoing should not be treated as fact and read only as an indication of what might apply.*


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## barol (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks Baldilocks that does help. I am now going to examine my will (notarised etc) as I am sure I was not informed of the right to have my estate executed under British law. No one wants to leave problems behind for their family. I have lived in Spain for 9 years and every day hear different examples of what we are supposed to do and have also received conflicting advise from solicitors. Trying to keep up with it all is almost a full time job LOL.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

barol said:


> Thanks Baldilocks that does help. I am now going to examine my will (notarised etc) as I am sure I was not informed of the right to have my estate executed under British law. No one wants to leave problems behind for their family. I have lived in Spain for 9 years and every day hear different examples of what we are supposed to do and have also received conflicting advise from solicitors. Trying to keep up with it all is almost a full time job LOL.


I've just checked my Spanish will( which expressly states that it only deals with my assets in Spain ( I have an english dealing with my UK assets), and it contains a clause which states

" I direct that my national English law, which does not know of the rules of heir apparent, is applicable to this will"

As mentioned earlier in the thread, it's in English in one column, and Spanish in the other.


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## livoshka (Sep 19, 2012)

Maybe you should go to city hall and get some help


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

livoshka said:


> Maybe you should go to city hall and get some help


if you mean the ayuntamiento - no, they couldn't help


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I have, unfortunately, had first hand experience, having been widowed two years ago. As ever, Spain lives up to one's expectation of unnecessary, time-consuming, expensive bureaucracy even after death. The will is expected to be dealt with in six months from the date of death. The paperwork makes that very difficult as you have to wait for one piece of paper until you can move forward to the next.

A Spanish will is necessary if you have any Spanish assets. My husband and I each had Spanish wills. When we bought our house here, in the 90s, my hubby flew over to sign the papers in the notario's office and I stayed in the UK with our small children. My name was in the contract as his wife, but of course I was not there to sign personally. When my children and I went to the natario's office to tie up the will and sign the papers, I was informed that, legally, since I did not sign, my husband was sole owner of our house and taxes were therefore liable on the whole house, with me being only entitled to 'usofucto' until my death, when it would pass to our children. If I start a new relationship and a partner moves into my house, should anything happen to me, a new partner would be entitled to nothing and would be effectively homeless. The law here is very different and unforeseen circumstances can arise because of that. It pays to sit and think very carefully now, and ask for advice while there is time to act. 

As an aside, after my husband passed away, I worriedly talked to my contact in the bank. The first thing we must do, she said, was to close our account and move everything to a new one in my name, 'We don't want all the complications that would come from telling people', she winked.

A last piece of advice - start saving now. In Spain, it is customary to bury the dead within 24 hours. 2 hours after my husband died in hospital, the funeral director was there, showing me his brochure. The funeral was the following day. I paid said funeral director €3000 for the most economical service possible plus €3000 to the crematorium. My FiL had to help as I didn't have that sort of money sitting in a current account. There are insurance policies to deal with these expenses, I found out too late. We were in our early fifties and never thought that far.


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## GallineraGirl (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear that. My Mother-in- Law died last year after a long illness so we were able to 'shop around' for funeral services before she died. We were quoted. 4000€ from the Funeral Directors near the hospital she was in, on the coast. A company in a small town inland quoted 2000€ for the same services and were wonderful, taking care of every detail.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We have a policy through Mapfre for funeral expenses for SWMBO and I but the suegra who is now 81 was considered too old.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

3k to the crematorium !! The cost of cremation is 300€ +iva here .


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> 3k to the crematorium !! The cost of cremation is 300€ +iva here .


we paid nearly 5K € for my dad's


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

That's why it pays to be clued up in advance. When the crematorium says, 'That'll be €3000 please, madam,' what does one do? The price included the cremation, urn, one arrangement of flowers, the hire of the room to _velar_ but no service as we are not religious. We certainly didn't want to stay in the crematorium all night anyway.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Madliz said:


> That's why it pays to be clued up in advance. When the crematorium says, 'That'll be €3000 please, madam,' what does one do? The price included the cremation, urn, one arrangement of flowers, the hire of the room to _velar_ but no service as we are not religious. We certainly didn't want to stay in the crematorium all night anyway.


to be fair we had several urns & reliquaries for various family members, which weren't cheap - plus a licence to bury some of the ashes at a later date

no service though, for the same reason


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## livoshka (Sep 19, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> if you mean the ayuntamiento - no, they couldn't help


No, buy they will know where you can get help.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

livoshka said:


> No, buy they will know where you can get help.



That would be VERY unlikely as it is nothing to do with them and not one of their 'areas of expertise'.


You'd do just as well asking in an insurance brokers - some of them seem to double up as 'undertakers' (at least they do around here).


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## dream on (Sep 26, 2010)

Well I for one can't afford to die here either! Could I will my body to medical science?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dream on said:


> Well I for one can't afford to die here either! Could I will my body to medical science?


I have heard that you can - but I don't know how


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