# Tell me about Thailand



## Flash

I am considering various countries for retirement. Thailand is one of them. The last time I was in Thailand was in 1975 and I'm sure things have changed. I would like to learn as much as I can about it. Things like can I own property, what are the visa/immigration requirements, what is the cost of living like now, where is the best place to live etc.? Is there anyone out there who can help?


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## LostAgain

The last time that I was in Thailand was in 1995 and I suspect that it has changed abit since then. I was staying in a very ropey beach resort in Phuket. I enjoyed the time but I wouldn't want to stay in that particular part for any more than a week. Other parts of Phuket are beautiful and the surrounding countryside, waterways and islands are fantastic.


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## synthia

The regulations concerning visas has changed recently. Check the Thai consulate website for your home country for the latest information. But basically, it used to be possible to come to Thailand on a 30-day entry stamp, take a bus to the nearest border on the day the stamp expired, leave, get stamped in and out of the other country, and walk right back into Thailand, because they would give you another ninety days. Some people had been doing this for seven years. Now you can only get a total of ninety days in a 180 day period, so you have to go to a Thai consulate in another country and apply for a visitors visa.

You can't own property, although you can buy a condominium. Many men buy property in their Thai wife's name, but when they break up, she gets to keep everything because it is in her name. It's the only reasonably fair thing in Thai marriage law.


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## LostAgain

I remember having a huge number of visas from just a one-month stay in South East Asia. I went in to Malaysia, getting an entry visa, left for Singapore twice getting exits followed by entries for Singapore, who also gave me exit visas, likewise Thailand. I was completely genuine in my travelling and it looked great on my passport. Others were doing it to extend business contracts without legitimate business visas.


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## Peterc

Thailand would be a great place to retire if you can get around all of the red tape. Thailand hosts many beautiful places including mountains an beaches. I am not sure about the public services there though.


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## keatlover

*Tips on eating and traveling in Thailand*

Living in Thailand is great, especially for expats. Many westerners take a long stay after their retirement, or even live here forever. The cost of living is quite small. For you, even having dinner in good restaurants may not cost much, like 1000 baht a menu, but eating street vendor food even cost much smaller, only like 25 baht for noodle or 30 baht for rice with curry. Drinking costs you 10 baht for a bottle of water. I do not know much about owning a property. But if you want to travel around Thailand during your retirement stay here, try Exotissimo Travel. It is a reliable travel company based in Bangkok (and also in Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh, Yangon, Vientiane and Luang Prabang)

And I believe that a retiree like you love to travel on private or a little more exclusive. Exotissimo Travel also has tailor-made luxury tours and hotels option for you. Just visit Exotissimo Luxury Travel Collection and contact any staff of each country.


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## synthia

You can only own condos as an expat, unless you are American. Apparently we have a treaty with Thailand stemming from the Viet Name era that allows us to buy land.

As far as services go, medical care is good to excellent (major medical tourism destination), electricity is pretty reliable, long distance bus service is good, there are a lot of budget airlinges, and there is high speed internet everywhere except the smaller islands.

The Muslim south has a separatist movement that is setting off bombs quite frequently. The group has announced that it is especially targetting, among other things, schools.


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## ricardo blue

Flash said:


> I am considering various countries for retirement. Thailand is one of them. The last time I was in Thailand was in 1975 and I'm sure things have changed. I would like to learn as much as I can about it. Things like can I own property, what are the visa/immigration requirements, what is the cost of living like now, where is the best place to live etc.? Is there anyone out there who can help?




You will love Thailand.... The island of smiles they call it... and indeed it is!!!
Probably my all time favorite place, it just doesn't get much better 
Like one of the guys said, Phucket has some beautiful surrounding areas and is a great base to explore some of the islands that are just a quick (and cheap) boat ride away....The likes of Phi Phi etc.
The people are beautiful, their beliefs and ideology is spot on, the food is
great, the scenery takes your breath away.... Simply Awesome!!
However, buying houses...... forget it. Starting companies...... you need Thai partners to come into business with you which is easier said then done. And I tell you what... I totally agree with their policies!
Go and take a month's holiday there and see what you think? Go in the summer to make sure you can handle the heat....... gets incredible hot and humid which does not bother me but does others!!
I'm going again next year to hunt elephants........lol.... only joking... Elephant's rock!!


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## retiredusn

The wife and I have been retired in Thailand for 4 years and love it. If you are planning on Thailand the first thing too due is go to the nearest Thai embassey and apply for a retirement visa (OA) this grants you a one year stay which is renewable after one year. It is much easier to get this type of visa in your home country to start with and you will not need too as they say here border hop for visa's every 30-90 days.


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## Guest

My experience in Amazing Thailand has not been to great. In fact, I'm miserable here. I don't find the people at all nice. Outwardly, yes, but deep down, no. Before I came here I was talking to someone about my intention of moving here. He said Thailand... violence with a smile. I was deeply offended then, now I can see what he meant. I'm thinking seriously about moving onward, it's difficult, because I brought everything from the US, and now I have to find another place and go through all the hassle again. If you look at some of the statistics at a site called nationmaster they will tell you weird stuff like that LOS (Land of Smiles) Thailand has the 3rd largest # of gun homicides in the world - after S.Africa and Colombia. A good source for information is the thaivisa website. You will hear a bit more negativity there maybe because it's got a lot of long-time expat posters. Good luck whatever you decide. See my other 2 posts (I just joined so I can look for info from expats from other countries as a prelude to getting out of here). I think the most successful people here find a good girlfriend who helps act as an interface to the society, and those that can learn this really really difficult language. Just one man's opinion - Buzzer


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## annamartha

A couple of people have told me that the smiles are meaningless, that someone would smile while telling you they are having an affair with your husband and he is going to leave you. And that you would be expected to smile back.


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## Guest

In the kind of smile you mention, how sincere can that be? Your heart's been trampled and you're expected to smile? What's the real message being delivered here? It's amazing what can hide behind a well practiced smile. A smile can often be a lie. The biggest problem I have here is with lying. Lying is so deeply imbedded in the culture. I think there are a several reasons for this. I know of a couple. 1. In its genesis, I think that it started out as saving face. Saving face for yourself, and not wanting others to loose face. So, if you ask a mechanic if he can work on your car, he'll say yes, because to say no he would loose face. So you take your car to him and say, "Is tomorrow OK? Again the answer is yes. A week later your car hasn't been touched. Several reasons will be given. The Thai's will keep hitting you with lie after lie, searching for the one that makes you feel best.
2. They will rarely do anything to provoke anger in someone, so, because the truth can hurt, they lie.

It's easy to find people to smile at you. It's a way of life here. But, if, in the final outcome nothing gets done, what good is it?

In heavy tourist areas like Pattaya and Ko Samui, I see less smiles. I feel that the foreigner (Falang) is resented because he comes in with buying power driving up the prices on houses and everything else. Most people are poor here, and I can see the injustice, but I hate to be the target of discrimination.


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## synthia

I traveled in Thailand a lot in the early 90's, and when I went back this year I noticed there were hardly any smiles, yet the people were much more prosperous. In Chiang Mai, there are lots of motorcycles, but fifteen years ago there were very few. There are lots of cars. There are nice shopping malls for the local people. And most of the tourists are Thai.

Most statements by Thais are the equivalent of "let's do lunch" in the US. No one really believes that you are going to have lunch some day. Everyone understands it's just a sort of polite gesture. Or real estate ads where 'cozy' means very, very, very tiny. Thais understand when another Thai is saying 'yes' and means 'no'. It is rude to say 'no', so Thais never ask yes/no questions.

Thais know that the smile means nothing. But we interpret it in a western way, and that causes problems. The smile is not intended to be sincere, any more than the smile we give a hated boss at work is intended to be sincere. It's a common thing all over Asia. In Japan, 'Hai!' means not 'yes' but "I acknowledge that you are making noises with your mouth", sort of like the "yeah.....yeah.....yeah" we say when listening to a long tale from someone. But Americans go in and interpret it as agreement, and can't understand what went wrong when things don't go the way they expected.

Thailand has a horrible level of corruption that everyone accepts as a fact of life. People have drivers licenses, but they paid a bribe to get them and never took the driving test. Everyone in Chiang Mai who rides a motorcycle carries a hundred baht note with them at all times, in case they get stopped for a traffic violation. I've read it's the second most corrupt country in SE Asia, after the Philippines.

It's not the place to be if you can't accept all of this and let it slide by you. I don't think I can, so I left. The difference is that I was just visiting, and wasn't invested in the place.


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## oddball

I guess you have run into the latest visa 'Updates' for married people and everybody else for that matter , changing almost daily so you could be in for a shock on your next application , A BIG SHOCK ., check it out now and prevent the heart-attack later !!!!! Colin


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## Guest

Buzzer

I read what you said and have had similar views, so you are not alone on that thread mate. However, I have come to the point that I always had these types of views regardless off what country I lived in and I have lived in quite a few. I reckon its all down to the three monkey syndrome. See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil......some of us see things for what they are and it can cloud our way....so I try to tune into the the three monkeys. If I don't I am a miserable whiney ******* and everything around me sucks donkey ====. I put it all down to seeing to much in life and not understanding what it is I've been seeing. Anyway I'm digressing, what I do now is when the funk comes on is tune it out...easy said than done...anyway mate know what you are saying. martin


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## KhwaamLap

Where do you live Buzzer - which province?

Thai smiles have many meanings: Hi, Happy to see you, I'm embarrassed, sorry I just dented your bumper, I can't remember your name, I can't speak farang and you can't speak Thai so we can't comunicate past this smile, etc, etc...It's all about context. Don't translate this as a western facial expression because it isn't - Thai expressionbs seem to be much more subtle - my wife used to take a frown as or consternation as rage and turning my nose up slightly as 'how dare you offer me that crap!'. Its cultural, just as difficult as the language, but even moreimportant to unerstand and 'speak' if you're going to live in LoS.

I think the corruption charges are fairly pot on, but then its much better to hand over an on-the-spot-fine (purple persuader - AKA 500 Baht note) than get arrested for speeding/not wearing a crash helmet on crashhelmet check Wednesday. This works out quite well kind-of. Police are incredably low paid, so this helps them out; the courts are not so crammed full of petty cases; the guilty are inconvenienced without being screwed royally.

I think where ever you are, you cn either fit in or not. If you can, then you will enjoy life, otherwise you'll be miserable. This all assumes you have the cash to live comfortably too I guess.


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## wolfmisc

Flash said:


> I am considering various countries for retirement. Thailand is one of them. The last time I was in Thailand was in 1975 and I'm sure things have changed. I would like to learn as much as I can about it. Things like can I own property, what are the visa/immigration requirements, what is the cost of living like now, where is the best place to live etc.? Is there anyone out there who can help?


you can own a condo, also a house but not the land it is standing on.Anyway, there is a way of leasing the land for 30 years. I think if you are alone, a long time renting would be the best thing for you. A town house in Chiang Mai, Pattaya or Hua Hin will cost between 5000 and 15000 baht per month. The prices for foodstuff and many other things went up a lot during the last 3 months. But is still much cheaper than in Europe or North America.
Many expats live in Bangkok (for business), the retired one mostly in Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin or on Phuket. Staying in Bangkok or Phuket is somewhat more expensive.
If you can prove a monthly income of 65000 baht(about 2000 USD) or more and are over 50 years, its possible to get a 1year visa. This visa is valid for 1 year. Nevertheless you have to cross border every 3 months to get a new stamp in your passport.
I dont know your nationality. The aforementioned suits mostly EC country citizens and from USA/Canada.


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## synthia

The best way to reduce the monthly rent is to commit to a time period and pay in advance. I met someone who got a nice condo reduced from 9000 to 7000 baht by offering to pay three months in advance. It worked for me at a guest house, too.


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## owenjones

Hi,

I have lived in Thailand for nearly four years. I am still with the first girl I met and we're getting married next week (24/93/08). 
We lived in Pattaya for a year or so and, afer frequent visisits to her village in Uttaradit, we moved up there. Then we lived with her mother for a year or so during which time we bought a piece of land and started building a house. We have been in our own house for a year and a half now and I love it. 
Everyone has been so helpful from day one. It can get lonesome sometimes as my girlfriend is the only one here who can speak English and the nearest ExPats are, well, there are 4 or 5 within a 30 km radius and I don't have a car. We usually meet up for a drink etc on Tuesdays (market day) in Phichai, which is 13 km from me. There is one bus a week to go to market at 7:30 AM returning at 10:30 AM
But, I have a satellite Internet conection - a window on the world. I have started writing a book and, after learning some basic HTML editing, now have 30 websites. And I'm trying to learn to read, write and speak Thai. 
One thing is for sure: if your going to live here, especially in a remote place, you HAVE to have something to do, Reading books all day just is not enough.
One of my newest websites is called:
*What It's Like To Be ...", where there's an article about my earlier days in northern Thailand, if you're interested.

All the best,
Owen.


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## KhwaamLap

There is an instrument called a USUFRUCT. This is a very old law (originating from the Romans), that Thailand adopted from the west. It is pretty useful and works like this: 

The owner of the land can sign over the land using the USUFRUCT. It is still owned by the original owner, but the USUFRUCTEE has full rights (except the ability to sell it) over the land. They can build, own the buildings, own any produce from said lad (Mangos etc) and treat it as their own land pretty much. The USUFRUCT can only be cancelled by both parties under agreement (they are registerd with the courts, so are legally binding) or by the death of the USUFRUCTEE - they are not inheritable, but children can also be added. This can bne betwelen man and wife etc. 
This can be done free without any taxes etc if the USUFRUCT is not charged for (if the owner is a business, there is expectation of a charge for the USUFRUCT to inhibbit fraud - tax is payable then - though its low). There is real need for lawyers as it needs to be registered etc. There are companies (PM me and I'll give you the name of the person I am using - for more details) that do everything for you - the land registry dept always want to talk you into renting/leasing the property insead. Why? Because it generates tax and is revokable - your lawyer/agent will push all that aside as they know the law and your rights etc. The Agency costs between 10k and 20k on average - depending where in the country you are. Out of town areas and the boonies often do not have land regisrty offices or the land is not title deeded etc, this costs more as the travelling ibetween offices may be greater (may well be in different towns!) - this is why the price variance. 

By the way - as the USUFRUCTEE, you can not be turned off the land (other than by the government - compulsory buying etc) - and can even kick the land owner off. It lasts until the last USUFRUCTEE dies. The owner can sell it, but the USUFRUCT goes with the purchase, so no change tot the USUFRUCTEE (and nobody wants to buy land with an open USUFRUCT on it - so if you do want to sell at some point, make the USUFRUCT cancellation a point of the sale).


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## owenjones

I've never heard that one before.
I'll have to try to remember it.

Owen.


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## leoman20

I find the same 
I loved thailand when I first arrived 3 years ago (not resident but frequent trips)

smiles are superficial and the population apart from the elite is struggling financially.
it is not as safe as australia.camping is not possible in thailand -you just get things stolen or worse.
tourists are shot for their money on some of the islands if out late on beaches.
homicides occur every second week in pataya between rival mafia groups controlling protection rackets
the rule of law is problematic.foreigners generally get worse end of the stick in any dispute despite tourist police.
my brother has himself to blame for being rolled 3 times in 6 months right in centre of busy bangkok.he stayed out late was drunk and on his own but his drinks were spiked while playing pool.

corruption is rife in any beaurocracy that is not under publc scrutiny.
on spot fines (higher than official fines)from police who must supplement their low income.
amphetamines use and alcohol excess is rampant .car accidents are high with not wearing seatbelts ,and no helmets on bikes ,high speed driving not just youngsters and lots of traffic.police crack down on safety from time to time-exceptionally.
domestic violence is common,abandoned wives and children,loan sharks ripping off poor borrowers,gambling card games for money and lottery tickets are magical thinking of locals who feel powerless but just impoversih them.

things are cheap but nasty=often break in 6 months have to buy same again.
people are unreliable unhelpful apart from single syllable answers-they dont have a customer focus (with a few exceptions) the education system does not encourage independent thought or questioning and while english is taught it is not taken seriously by the governement.Indian tourists in thailand speak better english .
the elite prefers the population to be traditional unquestioning passive and a slave to them. the various coups are exactly about being traditional or progressive.
the next generation of university educated people will change thailand (if they stay) but it is 15 years away yet.


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## leoman20

A thai girlfriend is an asset provided you can find one who is aware alert good english and without her own (understandably) victim mentality.


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## oddball

*living ion Thailand*



KhwaamLap said:


> There is an instrument called a USUFRUCT. This is a very old law (originating from the Romans), that Thailand adopted from the west. It is pretty useful and works like this:
> 
> The owner of the land can sign over the land using the USUFRUCT. It is still owned by the original owner, but the USUFRUCTEE has full rights (except the ability to sell it) over the land. They can build, own the buildings, own any produce from said lad (Mangos etc) and treat it as their own land pretty much. The USUFRUCT can only be cancelled by both parties under agreement (they are registerd with the courts, so are legally binding) or by the death of the USUFRUCTEE - they are not inheritable, but children can also be added. This can bne betwelen man and wife etc.
> This can be done free without any taxes etc if the USUFRUCT is not charged for (if the owner is a business, there is expectation of a charge for the USUFRUCT to inhibbit fraud - tax is payable then - though its low). There is real need for lawyers as it needs to be registered etc. There are companies (PM me and I'll give you the name of the person I am using - for more details) that do everything for you - the land registry dept always want to talk you into renting/leasing the property insead. Why? Because it generates tax and is revokable - your lawyer/agent will push all that aside as they know the law and your rights etc. The Agency costs between 10k and 20k on average - depending where in the country you are. Out of town areas and the boonies often do not have land regisrty offices or the land is not title deeded etc, this costs more as the travelling ibetween offices may be greater (may well be in different towns!) - this is why the price variance.
> 
> By the way - as the USUFRUCTEE, you can not be turned off the land (other than by the government - compulsory buying etc) - and can even kick the land owner off. It lasts until the last USUFRUCTEE dies. The owner can sell it, but the USUFRUCT goes with the purchase, so no change tot the USUFRUCTEE (and nobody wants to buy land with an open USUFRUCT on it - so if you do want to sell at some point, make the USUFRUCT cancellation a point of the sale).


 Usufruct , originating from the Romans and , adopted by the Thais from the west and works like this !!!! Oh realy , maybe for the Thais , very very little works for the Falang in Thailand , Thailand is for the Thais and whatever they say at what ever time is the current ruling , believe very little of what you read and nothing you hear is a good rule to follow .Immigration laws made up by the government , dependant on which office you apply at on any given day , is decided by the man behind the counter , he truly believes he is the law , argue and you are out of luck . Property , buy a piece of land with your wife , you cannot , she is buying it with your money , she has little to none of her own , build a huge beautiful home on it and impress the village , for her , you are only the ATM that makes this possible , good FACE for her , she snared a good one . She says leave , you are gone with no recourse , want to live in a village where every-one hates you ? Not a wise thing to do , read about the several murders of late , just for the m oney , of very good people ? Thailand is a law unto itself , you will find it very difficult to 'Fit in' you are and always will be the stupid Falang with the ATM card , do not believe me ? Tour the bars and talk to those who will tell you "But she realy loved me ", Thais are amongst the biggest liars you will ever meet , and the endearing smile ? Use a mirror and see the other side of the face , should you not be convinced , read the account of the nicest guy in the world just arrived from England , head almost severed with a machete by his loving wifes brother , for his money . read it all on Thai-visa . Don't have to believe me though , just go at it and in most cases find out for youself , but please , no crying in your beer , many of us have heard it all before .


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## Stravinsky

Nice to see you back oddball


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## KhwaamLap

A little bitter there Oddball? Not sure if it was my wife you were suggesting in your little rant or the Ops. USUFRUCTs are a fact - erm, yes really. They are little known about, mostly becuase the Thai goverment doesn't want too much interest to be shown. They are used quite a lot in business and to protect Thai wives from their Thai husbands, who could abandon them with nothing in the past. This law will not be repealed any time soon as too many businesses rely on them. It has SFA to do with immigration or land ownership laws as at no point are you a land ower; you cn not use it as an asset of your own etc and is irrelevent to immigration. It is a legal framework that is used in most of the world to protect long term leasees. The usual way is that tghe land is owned by a ligitimate land owner - be it Government, Tghai citizen or company and the USUFRUCT is given (usually sold) to thwe occupier along with a lease agreement. This isn't a circumvention of one law against another, it was set up for the sole reason of protecting the interests of land users (most commonly farmers) from land owners who could benefit from land improvements or declare themselves owner of the farm's produce without it. As the USERFRUCTEE you are not the owner, so you are within the law in its entirity. They are not new, and certainly not brought in to service us Farrangs - they do exist are embedded in Thai law and open to use by us.

Many people, as you suggest, are stung by unscupulous partners of one sort or another. The standard 'beer-crying-fare' is he Farrang meet little Lek at his hotel, they fall for eachother (ignoring a forty year age gap) and farrang buys new buffalo for Lek's mum, new pick-up for dad and a town house for the two of them to love on in. Papers signed, Lek's four uncles turn up and Farrang is in the bar crying into his Beer Chang..... This will happen no matter what. People are blind and gullable, fact. So many of these people check their brains in at BKK airport and fall for the same thing, sure. 

This is kinda the point though. If mr Farrang above had a USUFRUCT, then LEGALLY Lek could not have thrown him out. Sure, she'd still own the land, but she wouldn't get it until he was dead - and if he used his senses and put a third party on the USUFRUCT (like his young son from his first failed marriage back in Farrangland), then the kid would still hold it until he died. Kind of kills the trick if they can't sell the land for 60 years or so - and Mr Farrang is well past caring if he's dead already.

Having said all that - I do agree that there is more than the legalities here. Being in a tiny vilage where little Lek has turned them against you, isn't very nice. Of course, you could ****** off knowing that she can't sell the land anyway, so can't realise the benefit either. It is unlikely though that a little village would benefit from USUFRUCT as they require deedmms and legal land registration, many villages do not have deeded lands or legal registration, only local registration (on whic a USUFRUCT would be impossible without the extra cost of getting the land measured and deeded by the goverment). USUFRUCTs really come into their own if the land is in a town or city - also much harder for Lek to turn everyone against you in the middle of Bangkok.

The golden rule always applies - "Only spend what you can afford to walk away from" - USUFRUCTs just give you the ability to stop her ripping you off, you may never get the cash back either. So, be careful where you decide to live - I certainly wouldn't want to live close to her family anyway - I know my wife doesn't either, but I've got a good'n - like most of us (we're just not as vocal as the 'beer-cryers')

I wouldn't say Thais are the biggest liars in the world either, but I guess that was meant to be inflamatory.

...and just for your info...my wife owns a fair bit of land, comes from a military family, had been married to me for a decade and is a terrible liar (in that she might aswel hold up a plaque saying "I'm fibbing now!"), so not too many hits there then


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## oddball

Stravinsky said:


> Nice to see you back oddball


 Thank you , it has been a while . Colin


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## oddball

No , not being bitter actualy , i have no particular axe to grind over Thailand , just putting out the red flags for the unsuspecting about things that happen in Thailand , who cannot seem to believe nor percieve that the 'Love birds'' are great actors and con artists . My father taught me not to loan anything unless i could accept the loss of whatever it was without getting my knickers in a knot , that way you lost the money and the friend .
I moved over to Cambodia where the people are much friendlier , with honest smiles that come readily with no ulterior motive , they have nothing to offer as in Thailand , but what they do offer comes willingly with no strings attached in the majority of cases . I co-own property with my wife , all legally documented by the village elders , the family rarely asks for nor expects anything , just that i be good to my wife , not in a monetary way , but kind and loyal .
As a side-bar , if you think the Thais are bad drivers , feel free to visit and experience the most inpatient , unskilled driving of a lifetime .


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## Stravinsky

oddball said:


> No , not being bitter actualy , i have no particular axe to grind over Thailand , just putting out the red flags for the unsuspecting about things that happen in Thailand , who cannot seem to believe nor percieve that the 'Love birds'' are great actors and con artists . My father taught me not to loan anything unless i could accept the loss of whatever it was without getting my knickers in a knot , that way you lost the money and the friend .
> I moved over to Cambodia where the people are much friendlier , with honest smiles that come readily with no ulterior motive , they have nothing to offer as in Thailand , but what they do offer comes willingly with no strings attached in the majority of cases . I co-own property with my wife , all legally documented by the village elders , the family rarely asks for nor expects anything , just that i be good to my wife , not in a monetary way , but kind and loyal .
> As a side-bar , if you think the Thais are bad drivers , feel free to visit and experience the most inpatient , unskilled driving of a lifetime .


are you in Cambodia now?


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## oddball

Yes i am in Cambodia at this time , lived here for two and a half years , but times they are a changing ! Apartment blocks , hotels you name it being constructed everywhere you look , but for whom ? The infrastructure here in Phnom Penh cannot support the current population that has exploded from village people moving in , mostly uneducated , untrained in anything worth while , just men with a moto happy with a dollar or two a day to feed themselves . Driving laws and signs totally ignored , are not aware even on which side of the street to drive( motivate) themselves , most sidewalks etc are plugged with them , you endanger your life to walk in the street . Housing for another 150,000 residents , so add about 5,000 more vehicles and there will be total mayhem . My wife and i are seriously considering moving out of here before that happens , tourists on the internet advising to give this city a miss , they refer to it these days as the 'Wild West' using motos instead of 6 shooters to run the unwary down .Was a good place to live when i first came here , se-la-vie !! Angor Wat , with all the millions spent by tourist , bumpy , pot holed dirt roads to drive on , outside of town the poor have swollen , living in hovels and poluting everything with thier garbage , still living in the jungle .


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## Stravinsky

oddball said:


> Yes i am in Cambodia at this time , lived here for two and a half years , but times they are a changing ! Apartment blocks , hotels you name it being constructed everywhere you look , but for whom ? The infrastructure here in Phnom Penh cannot support the current population that has exploded from village people moving in , mostly uneducated , untrained in anything worth while , just men with a moto happy with a dollar or two a day to feed themselves . Driving laws and signs totally ignored , are not aware even on which side of the street to drive( motivate) themselves , most sidewalks etc are plugged with them , you endanger your life to walk in the street . Housing for another 150,000 residents , so add about 5,000 more vehicles and there will be total mayhem . My wife and i are seriously considering moving out of here before that happens , tourists on the internet advising to give this city a miss , they refer to it these days as the 'Wild West' using motos instead of 6 shooters to run the unwary down .Was a good place to live when i first came here , se-la-vie !! Angor Wat , with all the millions spent by tourist , bumpy , pot holed dirt roads to drive on , outside of town the poor have swollen , living in hovels and poluting everything with thier garbage , still living in the jungle .


Heh heh ....I was going to ask if its a nice place to visit as my wife has always fancied it, but I guess you answered the question


----------



## oddball

Hello , I will write more later about Cambodia , where to go and some of what is to be seen , living here on a daily basis gives a far different slant than a short vacation . Picking the place to stay obviates many of my accumulated pet pieves , as you can be close to the attractions without the hastles met during daily shopping etc , it depends on personal preference of sight-seeing , type of accomadation etc .Colin


----------



## leoman20

I agree with Buzzer.The rule of law is very variable in thailand.police not paid enough and must"fine " you for traffic violations to make up salary.also they apparently do hit contracts on the side if the victim is a criminal from a rival gang etc.
tourists especially on the islands frequently get killed by thieves or drug dealers.
you cannot expect to tour the country in mobile home-not have van parks and it is not safe.
most homes now are in security developments.
It is a poor country with amphetamine alcohol large debt and gambling problems.wach you drinks carefully as they can be drugged and then you are robbed or worse.

the thai women are quite controlling and take advantage of easy going naive foreigners.
the better educated thai women are like western girls and can be a good partner for middle aged men.
long term rent is so cheap it is not worth bothering with realestate purchase apart from condos in bangkok.
marital breakdown is rife in thailand among the thais.desperate mums try to bring up kids without alimony or government support.there is no unemployment hospital insurance or retirement pension from govt.so they rely on relatives or borrow at high rates of interest.

so be careful stick to safe areas dont go out late at night.some areas are very safe.others like western cities are notoriously unsafe.
do not speak to transgender people .men who become women are often sensitive and aaressive about it.
and they can knock you down and steal from you in dark alleys !
join expats clubs and then network.
apparently thailand is better than philipines -but wealth and less desperation than phillip.
thais dont speak much english.thai alphabet is not latin so hard to learn from books.

BUt thais can love just as we do have no sexual hangups are attractive happy to have an older partner and are devoted provided their family is take care of (you become govt pension for the parents and pay for kids education health innsurance-)
othe rmain problem is thai mentality-thais tend to be cargo cult or victim mentality apart form chineses who are good at business and are self motivating.many thias have no planning ,questioning,poor assertiveness and 
do not have much self awareness or personal ambition.


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## Pauly45

Wow sounds bad for Phnom Penh. Best of luck to your guys.


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## trust

Ideal country for retirement.


----------



## Guest

*Usafruct*

Correct me if I am wrong, but does Usufruct also mean to live of the fruits of the lland.


----------



## leoman20

owenjones said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have lived in Thailand for nearly four years. I am still with the first girl I met and we're getting married next week (24/93/08).
> We lived in Pattaya for a year or so and, afer frequent visisits to her village in Uttaradit, we moved up there. Then we lived with her mother for a year or so during which time we bought a piece of land and started building a house. We have been in our own house for a year and a half now and I love it.
> Everyone has been so helpful from day one. It can get lonesome sometimes as my girlfriend is the only one here who can speak English and the nearest ExPats
> 
> I had a g/f from phichai and have visited uttaradit
> i know a little html but thought websites expensive to get a web address maybe i am wrong
> yes there are few expats and little english
> i suggest a motor bike is good transport in countryside
> not so dangerous as cities
> how do you find the heat?
> was it hard to get permission to build the house
> what about the police are they difficult there?
> what about security for your house
> do you travel to laos or kampuchea?
> 
> stan


----------



## singto

buzzer said:


> My experience in Amazing Thailand has not been to great. In fact, I'm miserable here. I don't find the people at all nice. Outwardly, yes, but deep down, no. Before I came here I was talking to someone about my intention of moving here. He said Thailand... violence with a smile. I was deeply offended then, now I can see what he meant. I'm thinking seriously about moving onward, it's difficult, because I brought everything from the US, and now I have to find another place and go through all the hassle again. If you look at some of the statistics at a site called nationmaster they will tell you weird stuff like that LOS (Land of Smiles) Thailand has the 3rd largest # of gun homicides in the world - after S.Africa and Colombia. A good source for information is the thaivisa website. You will hear a bit more negativity there maybe because it's got a lot of long-time expat posters. Good luck whatever you decide. See my other 2 posts (I just joined so I can look for info from expats from other countries as a prelude to getting out of here). I think the most successful people here find a good girlfriend who helps act as an interface to the society, and those that can learn this really really difficult language. Just one man's opinion - Buzzer


Buzzer I've been living in Thailand for 14 years. 

1) If you don't get involved in something you shouldn't, like drugs, gambling, etc., your chances of getting shot in Thailand are relatively small. 

2) Finding a girlfriend may help, but honestly, if you don't know the culture well enough to get around, you probably don't need to be get serious with a woman. 

3) If you do get involved with a woman, don't get involved with a bar girl.

4) Learning the language may be difficult for you but for many it's not "realy, really difficult." I learned to speak basic Thai in about a year and now speak it fluently, as well as reading and writing the language. It's only as difficult as you make it.

5) Thaivisa is a decent website but not the end all.

And the saying is "The Killing Smile."

If you live on Koh Samui the people there are spoiled by tourists and expect everyone to act as such, paying Farang prices instead of local prices and getting upset when they refuse. I live on the outskirts of Bangkok, where a few Farang live, but not enough to ruin things. I get the same prices, or even lower, as my Thai wife - so it's entirely possible to live like a local. You're always going to have to deal with stereotypes but that's life...deal with it or find somewhere better.

In case you want to know, since I'm married I'm eligible for a marriage visa, however I have a non-immigrant M visa and work permit and thus simply renew it each year.

BTW - I've spent alot of time in Cambodia - yes, the driving is atrocious, but the people are nice. This too is changing and will continue to change - for the worst.


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## synthia

Note that if you meet a girl in a bar who tells you she is visiting a friend, or is a nurse back in Bangkok, she's still a bar girl.


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## singto

Leoman - for someone who has lived here for four years you sure have alot of stereotypes about Thais and honestly, your advice is piss-poor. You've been listening to far too many Thais in the village spouting their birdbrain gossip or are drinking too much Leo Beer. Sorry, but this needs to be said.



> Thais dont speak much english. thai alphabet is not latin so hard to learn from books.


Thai language is not Latin so it's hard to learn from books? Learning from books alone is never easy but if Abe Lincoln can do it, so can I. Not only do I speak fluent Thai, I also read it, and write it and guess what, for the most part I learned from books - with a little help from my wife. Your logic is faulty my friend.



> The thai women are quite controlling and take advantage of easy going naive foreigners. The better educated thai women are like western girls and can be a good partner for middle aged men.


First - women anywhere can be controlling if you're not strong enough to prevent them from controlling you, whether you're a tourist or not. You can only be controlled if you let someone control you and whether you're a newbie or not makes no difference. There's a difference between allowing some Thai prostitute to help you and allowing someone to control you...



> Long term rent is so cheap it is not worth bothering with real estate purchase apart from condos in Bangkok.


Since when is money the only reason for buying YOUR OWN place? I've got land (outside of Bangkok), a house on it, and I also rent a place in Bangkok. So maybe I shouldn't have bought the land? 



> Marital breakdown is rife in Thailand among the Thais. Desperate mums try to bring up kids without alimony or government support.there is no unemployment hospital insurance or retirement pension from govt.so they rely on relatives or borrow at high rates of interest.


Divorce or marital breakdown are rife among Thais and Farang as well. While there are indeed women who are desperate to earn a living and who rely on family, there are also quite a few women perfectly content and capable to live alone or with their children. Also, there are many around the world who live without health insurance. At least, for what it's worth, the Thais have their 30 baht insurance program to fall back on...



> So be careful stick to safe areas dont go out late at night.some areas are very safe.others like western cities are notoriously unsafe. Do not speak to transgender people .men who become women are often sensitive and aggressive about it. and they can knock you down and steal from you in dark alleys !


Rarely have I felt unsafe in Thailand and I've been all over the country and out all night. Walk down Sukhumvit and you may run into a few ladyboys on Soi 5 but anytime they've ever come close to me I let them know if they come any closer they're going to pay for it. If you're out of your mind drunk, staggering down the street, then they might roll you but for the most part, this isn't going to happen. I've been in some nasty places near Burma, in the South of Thailand, in Bangkok - no problems. Like anywhere, you need to stay alert. 

Which areas are "notoriously unsafe?"



> join expats clubs and then network.


Ok, networking is important, especially in the beginning. 



> apparently thailand is better than philipines - but wealth and less desperation than phillip.


Huh? I don't dispute that Thailand is better FOR ME than the PI. But there is wealth in the PI and also desperation, just like in Thailand. The main differences between the countries are Filipinos are predominately Catholic, Thais are Buddhists, Thais speak poor English, Filipinos speak English as a second language. Their mentalities are completely different as Filipinos are not only Asian but heavily influenced by the Spanish and Americans. Thai rak Thai...believe that...what neighbors do Thais love? Burmese? Cambodians? Laotians? Malaysians? They don't "like" anyone but their own. The Filipinos tend not to have the stigma attached when they have a foreign boyfriend or husband.



> BUt thais can love just as we do have no sexual hangups are attractive happy to have an older partner and are devoted provided their family is take care of (you become govt pension for the parents and pay for kids education health innsurance-)


Again, ridiculous assumptions to even address...some Thai women, like women anywhere, have their own set of hangups...it's a personal issue, not an issue of their being Thai . I dare say I've had more than my share of women in Southeast Asia, Europe, and the US, and Thai women are like flowers - once they blossom they're beautiful, but some tend to take longer than others. I've had Thai, Filipinas, Cambodians, Indonesians, and Burmese women, among others, who loved oral sex (giving and receiving), and then there were some who didn't like it. Some ASKED for anal, some didn't. Some swallowed, some didn't. However, I've also had American women who loved oral sex and swallowing, along with anal (for example), and some who just didn't like it or want it. 



> Othe rmain problem is thai mentality-thais tend to be cargo cult or victim mentality apart form chineses who are good at business and are self motivating.many thias have no planning ,questioning,poor assertiveness and
> do not have much self awareness or personal ambition.


I suggest you start hanging out with more middle-class and high-so Thais instead of those in the village - there's a big difference and your stereotype is inaccurate at best.



leoman20 said:


> I agree with Buzzer.The rule of law is very variable in thailand.police not paid enough and must"fine " you for traffic violations to make up salary.also they apparently do hit contracts on the side if the victim is a criminal from a rival gang etc.
> 
> There are plenty of good cops in Thailand. While they do take fine money to supplement their income what you fail to note is that 99% of the time they only stop people who are doing something wrong, ie; aren't wearing a helmut, driving in the wrong lane, etc.
> 
> All the cops are running around doing hits on people they think are criminals? C'mon man, get real...that's a very broad statement. When Toxin was in power they were doing this but it was directed at drug dealers and not just some random criminal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tourists especially on the islands frequently get killed by thieves or drug dealers. you cannot expect to tour the country in mobile home-not have van parks and it is not safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? An Aussie friend of mine and his wife drove a oversized van around the country, sleeping in it, and while he's not hanging out with the PAD or down south, they had no problems - in fact he said it was one of the best times of his life because of how he was treated by the Thais.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> most homes now are in security developments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Say what? I live in the Huamark area - in a home - and there are very, very few security developments as you put it. This is a middle class neighborhood too. In fact, to use the word MOST is again, ridiculous...SOME - or A FEW - but not MOST.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a poor country with amphetamine alcohol large debt and gambling problems. Watch you drinks carefully as they can be drugged and then you are robbed or worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times has this happened to you? Indeed there is a problem with Ya-ba and gambling is a vice Thais love to engage in. But to say, "watch your drinks because you can be robbed or worse..." Dude where are you hanging out? I rarely go to Nana, Cowboy or Patpong anymore but have been there far too many times as I lived in Lower Sukhumvit and at one time it was part of my daily ritual to hit the bars. The drugging of a beverage is RARE. I certainly wouldn't go to use toilet and leave a half full beer behind but if you're sitting with your drink the chance of someone drugging you is slim.
Click to expand...


----------



## synthia

The Philippines is no where near as prosperous as Thailand. No one has ever called it an Asian tiger. To say that the only difference is that one was occupied by the Spaniards (400 years) and the Americans (less than 50 -1898 to 1945), is to ignore vast economic differences. This doesn't mean there aren't any wealthy people in the Philippines, but there are very wealthy people everywhere. I'm sure there are wealthy people in Somalia and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, too, but as a whloe, Thailand is much better off economicallyl


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## singto

I understand there are more differences than religion and language, but only in the past 10 years or so has Thailand's economy recovered.


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## synthia

I was in both Thailand and the Philippines in the early 90's, and even then, Thailand was in another league from the Philippines.


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## singto

Say what you will, a little bit of money goes a long way in both places. I'll say it again - the major noticeable differences in the countries are the language and religion - the average person living off a $1500 - $2000 a month pension isn't going feel the economic differences. Oh...also, Thailand is safer IMO.


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## synthia

Oh, way safer. That, to me, is one of the most noticable differences.


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## synthia

You have illustrated one of the reasons that I, and several other posters here, always tell people not to buy property until you have been in a country at least a year, and to avoid investing money you can't afford to use. Living in any culture that is strange to you is difficult, and you never know how you are going to feel after six months or a year.

The girlfriend solution is a bit tricky, because the key word in your statement is 'good'. The parade of men who have been taken for a lot of money is seemingly endless.


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## aviador

I have lived here for almost 5 years, after spending a long vacation about 6 years ago. Love the climate, inexpensive living, food and their ubiquitous smile. (They are not smiling they are laughing their asses off.)

Did my “visa runs” and to overcome the 3 now “months” rule, (Only Thais could **** up a system using apples and oranges) travelled to Malaysia for another 60 day permit, extendable to yet another 30 days.
This grumpy immigration agent at the Andaman club let me leave, but when I returned, advised me that I had used up all my permits, counting back God knows how many months.
“I give you 3 day stay, come back tomorrow.”

I live about 350 km (8 hour round trip) from Ranong and since someone had stolen my car, it took a 3800 baht on a minibus journey to go back the next day.

Then he advised me that this was it and gave me 1 (ONE) day visa.

It was 4 PM and by the time I returned home it was almost 8PM.
What could I accomplish in one day?

So now I am “overstay”.

After thinking it over, I have decided to take a chance and become illegal. I added up the airline, car and taxi trips in Malaysia to Ranong and Phang Nga; In just the last 3 months they amount to more than 18,500 Baht. Just for the privilege to live here another 90 days? I am not a back-packer, but also not rich.

I had them build me a one bedroom bungalow, paid the guy 200,000 Baht in advance, in lieu of the no bedroom bungalow I was occupying at the time for the same price 7000 Baht a month.

Well, he died in the tsunami. His wife took over and approached me one day. “I have to raise your rent to 10,000 Baht a month”, because is bigger. Lady, I paid you husband 100,000 Baht for the addition. When I die, or move away you may charge as much as you wish. Well it was settled anyway.


I would have to be stupid, to put up with this horse ****. I know people who have done it for years and gotten away with it.

I am almost 74 years old, don’t go anywhere; I am just as happy sitting up here at the edge of the jungle, marveling at the fauna out there. I can send one of the neighborhood kids to the ATM, and do my shopping.

Now I just want to milk “their” system for all I can get out of it; pay them the 20,000 baht maximum afterwards and laugh all the way to the bank.

I don’t like to do that, I am too honest, basically, but they leave me no choice. Thais are the most mischievous devious, sneaky, unfeeling, heartless, lying (they call it saving face) bunch of human beings I have ever encountered and as a retired Pilot I have been all over the world. 

It started wit the tsunami, when I could not get out of town and was forced to overstay for 8 or 10 days. I tried to explain to the ***** in Ranong, due to the tsunami all the roads were closed, I lost my car and most of my possessions and had no other choice but to wait. She nodded in agreement, handed me the form and said, “Pay over there”. Wow, real kindness and empathy.

If it weren’t for the climate, cheap living and all the things I have invested here, house, inventory etc.

I want to spend my retirement money in Thailand, not in Malaysia or some other country. If it weren’t for that I would tell them to stick it all up their respective asses; I would be out of here in a heartbeat.


----------



## Jamie76

aviador said:


> I don’t like to do that, I am too honest, basically, but they leave me no choice. Thais are the most mischievous devious, sneaky, unfeeling, heartless, lying (they call it saving face) bunch of human beings I have ever encountered and as a retired Pilot I have been all over the world.
> 
> I want to spend my retirement money in Thailand, not in Malaysia or some other country. If it weren’t for that I would tell them to stick it all up their respective asses; I would be out of here in a heartbeat.


So you hate the people and most other reasons people come to Thailand to live/retire. There's many other places around the world that would suit your needs.

I've heard many stories of people staying in Thailand illegally. I've also heard of those same people finally getting caught. Just because you are 74 doesn't mean they won't throw you in prison, because they will.


----------



## aviador

Jamie76 said:


> So you hate the people and most other reasons people come to Thailand to live/retire. There's many other places around the world that would suit your needs.
> 
> I've heard many stories of people staying in Thailand illegally. I've also heard of those same people finally getting caught. Just because you are 74 doesn't mean they won't throw you in prison, because they will.


Wow, another *Expert*

who doesn't live in Thailand and isn't even capable to write in correct English.

*There's many other places around *

Below my niveau. Sorry.


----------



## Jamie76

aviador said:


> Wow, another *Expert*
> 
> who doesn't live in Thailand and isn't even capable to write in correct English.
> 
> *There's many other places around *
> 
> Below my niveau. Sorry.


Nice come back. I love how people attack others over stupid things such as "correct English." I guess I would be bitter too if I was a 74 year old man living in a country illegally. Quite pathetic actually.

***That will be enough of that...you don't have to agree but you also don't need to effectively call the guy pathetic...


----------



## singto

aviador said:


> I have lived here for almost 5 years, after spending a long vacation about 6 years ago. Love the climate, inexpensive living, food and their ubiquitous smile. (They are not smiling they are laughing their asses off.)
> 
> Did my “visa runs” and to overcome the 3 now “months” rule, (Only Thais could **** up a system using apples and oranges) travelled to Malaysia for another 60 day permit, extendable to yet another 30 days.
> This grumpy immigration agent at the Andaman club let me leave, but when I returned, advised me that I had used up all my permits, counting back God knows how many months.
> “I give you 3 day stay, come back tomorrow.”
> 
> I live about 350 km (8 hour round trip) from Ranong and since someone had stolen my car, it took a 3800 baht on a minibus journey to go back the next day.
> 
> Then he advised me that this was it and gave me 1 (ONE) day visa.
> 
> It was 4 PM and by the time I returned home it was almost 8PM.
> What could I accomplish in one day?
> 
> So now I am “overstay”.
> 
> After thinking it over, I have decided to take a chance and become illegal. I added up the airline, car and taxi trips in Malaysia to Ranong and Phang Nga; In just the last 3 months they amount to more than 18,500 Baht. Just for the privilege to live here another 90 days? I am not a back-packer, but also not rich.
> 
> I had them build me a one bedroom bungalow, paid the guy 200,000 Baht in advance, in lieu of the no bedroom bungalow I was occupying at the time for the same price 7000 Baht a month.
> 
> Well, he died in the tsunami. His wife took over and approached me one day. “I have to raise your rent to 10,000 Baht a month”, because is bigger. Lady, I paid you husband 100,000 Baht for the addition. When I die, or move away you may charge as much as you wish. Well it was settled anyway.
> 
> 
> I would have to be stupid, to put up with this horse ****. I know people who have done it for years and gotten away with it.
> 
> I am almost 74 years old, don’t go anywhere; I am just as happy sitting up here at the edge of the jungle, marveling at the fauna out there. I can send one of the neighborhood kids to the ATM, and do my shopping.
> 
> Now I just want to milk “their” system for all I can get out of it; pay them the 20,000 baht maximum afterwards and laugh all the way to the bank.
> 
> I don’t like to do that, I am too honest, basically, but they leave me no choice. Thais are the most mischievous devious, sneaky, unfeeling, heartless, lying (they call it saving face) bunch of human beings I have ever encountered and as a retired Pilot I have been all over the world.
> 
> It started wit the tsunami, when I could not get out of town and was forced to overstay for 8 or 10 days. I tried to explain to the ***** in Ranong, due to the tsunami all the roads were closed, I lost my car and most of my possessions and had no other choice but to wait. She nodded in agreement, handed me the form and said, “Pay over there”. Wow, real kindness and empathy.
> 
> If it weren’t for the climate, cheap living and all the things I have invested here, house, inventory etc.
> 
> I want to spend my retirement money in Thailand, not in Malaysia or some other country. If it weren’t for that I would tell them to stick it all up their respective asses; I would be out of here in a heartbeat.


Their smile is known as "the killing smile." When it comes t the Thais, a smile is not always what it seems. They could be laughing at you, laughing all the way to the bank, or because they're embarrassed and don't know what else to do. Or it might just be a genuine smile.

The Thais have been lenient towards foreigners staying in the country - over the years they've allowed people to live and work simply by doing monthly visa runs. People have stayed for years on end...but when it comes to those legally living here, those who are married to a Thai (like me), the system is not quite as user friendly. I've been married for 6 years to an educated Thai (as opposed to a bar girl), with the same woman for 10, we have two children together and yet I need to go out of the country every year? Doesn't quite seem right to me.

As far as some of the character traits of Thais - you are right IMO. 

Thais will flat out lie to avoid confrontation.

Thais can seem unfeeling - in truth, the culture is not a "feeling" culture as many are in the west. You don't hear alot of Thais speaking of their feelings do you?

While I appreciate the culture, I do think at times the whole "saving face" concept is used to their benefit.

Also, I've been here for 14 years and have alot of time invested here, not to mention material goods. If I do move somewhere, it's going to be to work or because I feel the place is a better place. So far, I've yet to find a place that was so much better that I feel it appropriate to make a move.

Every place has it's frustrations - there is no Utopia, period. It's all in the way you look at it. If you feel that overstaying is your way of getting back at the Thai system, more power to you - but be prepared to pay the consequences.


----------



## aviador

It was not a rash decision to retire to Thailand.

After spending a supposed 2 week vacation more than 5 years ago, which turned into an almost 2 month’s holiday, I decided this is where I want to spend the rest of my days. It was also the first (and last) trip on a long-tail boat to Khawtoung in Myanmar. 

I sold my home in the US, since my wife had left me after a 30 year marriage, my children were emancipated and burned my bridges behind me.

I aimed for the no O retirement visa which required 800,000 baht or equivalent monthly income adding to this amount.

I arrived deposited 5 million Baht, into an account at a local Thai bank. I also met a nice young man who owned a transportation company here in town running 8 minibuses. Wife, new baby, spoke reasonably understandable English, owned property etc. He needed another minibus so I gave him as an investment 1, 2 million to buy a new Toyota vehicle of that sort.

Well, then along came the tsunami. It wiped him out. 7 out of 8 buses, plus his personal car (I never even got to see my new mini-bus :>)

I told him this is not of your doing,we survived it, living only 1,5 km where 2,300 tourists lost their lifes. Don’t worry about the money. I now was the best thing to sliced bread.” You are such a kind-hearted person” bla bla bla.

I did have an accident in Phuket when I first arrived, (would up on the wrong side of the road, after driving on the right side for neigh 50 years) he was invaluable to get me through the trauma of dealing with the police.

The insurance company sent me a 1,800 Baht refund check for incorrect charges, but only to be cashed in Phuket. Since he was in Phuket at the time, he sent his mother to my home with a form (in Thai) supposedly authorizing to act on my behalf. She also took my ATM card, since he needed to pay the lawyer in cash, so he said. 

He was supposed to return that evening, sent me an SMS, I will see you around 8 PM, but disappeared for 6 months. Contacting the family just resulted in that phony SMILE. May rue? (or loo pronounced here in the south.

After a week, I had this feeling, a foreboding which did not go away. I visited my bank to get a balance. Low and behold:
Previous balance 3,600,000 Baht, current balance 1,250 Baht. Not even enough for a bottle of cheap Mekong. 

My New Mitsubishi Strada truck was hit from behind while stopped, but with the usual Thai attitude, the perpetrator made a U-turn and disappeared. I did have insurance and my new Thai friend offered to have it repaired. Again, I signed some papers in Thai, not knowing what I signed. He drove it away, never to be seen again. He registered it in his name and sold it.

When I threatened him with the police, he SMS’d me. “I no scare of police, I know them all”. It is true. I could file charges for theft; he would be arrested but bailed out within minutes by his family. They will schedule a trial 4 of 5 years from now. By that time I will probably be dead.

So you tell me, I should not be pissed???


----------



## aviador

- over the years they've allowed people to live and work simply by doing monthly visa runs. People have stayed for years on end...but when it comes to those legally living here, those who are married to a Thai (like me), the system is not quite as user friendly

The Thais have been lenient 
towards foreigners staying in the country.

Look at the articles in the Newspaper.
I buy the Bangkok Post ever day. Most of the articles written by Thais are the one’s who studied abroad. College education in Thailand, a cruel joke.

Lenient? 
Mow they have learned since that it takes more than a nice resort to deal with falang. They developed an industry; manufacturing et al and now needed to deal with international commerce. 
Everybody was elated. Wow, the baht is up and the Dollar is down, until they priced themselves out of competition with Cambodia Laos and Vietnam. 

The educational system is still a shambles.
I have 2 15 year old neighborhood boys who can not even tell me what 6x6 amounts to, without using a calculator. Only one of the others has learned enough English from me to have a lucent conversation with. The others speak NOTHING.

No, I don’t tout it to be in English. 
I am also fluent in German, Spanish as well as getting by in Japanese.


----------



## Jamie76

aviador said:


> It was not a rash decision to retire to Thailand.
> 
> After spending a supposed 2 week vacation more than 5 years ago, which turned into an almost 2 month’s holiday, I decided this is where I want to spend the rest of my days. It was also the first (and last) trip on a long-tail boat to Khawtoung in Myanmar.
> 
> I sold my home in the US, since my wife had left me after a 30 year marriage, my children were emancipated and burned my bridges behind me.
> 
> I aimed for the no O retirement visa which required 800,000 baht or equivalent monthly income adding to this amount.
> 
> I arrived deposited 5 million Baht, into an account at a local Thai bank. I also met a nice young man who owned a transportation company here in town running 8 minibuses. Wife, new baby, spoke reasonably understandable English, owned property etc. He needed another minibus so I gave him as an investment 1, 2 million to buy a new Toyota vehicle of that sort.
> 
> Well, then along came the tsunami. It wiped him out. 7 out of 8 buses, plus his personal car (I never even got to see my new mini-bus :>)
> 
> I told him this is not of your doing,we survived it, living only 1,5 km where 2,300 tourists lost their lifes. Don’t worry about the money. I now was the best thing to sliced bread.” You are such a kind-hearted person” bla bla bla.
> 
> I did have an accident in Phuket when I first arrived, (would up on the wrong side of the road, after driving on the right side for neigh 50 years) he was invaluable to get me through the trauma of dealing with the police.
> 
> The insurance company sent me a 1,800 Baht refund check for incorrect charges, but only to be cashed in Phuket. Since he was in Phuket at the time, he sent his mother to my home with a form (in Thai) supposedly authorizing to act on my behalf. She also took my ATM card, since he needed to pay the lawyer in cash, so he said.
> 
> He was supposed to return that evening, sent me an SMS, I will see you around 8 PM, but disappeared for 6 months. Contacting the family just resulted in that phony SMILE. May rue? (or loo pronounced here in the south.
> 
> After a week, I had this feeling, a foreboding which did not go away. I visited my bank to get a balance. Low and behold:
> Previous balance 3,600,000 Baht, current balance 1,250 Baht. Not even enough for a bottle of cheap Mekong.
> 
> My New Mitsubishi Strada truck was hit from behind while stopped, but with the usual Thai attitude, the perpetrator made a U-turn and disappeared. I did have insurance and my new Thai friend offered to have it repaired. Again, I signed some papers in Thai, not knowing what I signed. He drove it away, never to be seen again. He registered it in his name and sold it.
> 
> When I threatened him with the police, he SMS’d me. “I no scare of police, I know them all”. It is true. I could file charges for theft; he would be arrested but bailed out within minutes by his family. They will schedule a trial 4 of 5 years from now. By that time I will probably be dead.
> 
> So you tell me, I should not be pissed???


So you made an investment in a person you barely know. You also handed over your ATM card to someone you barely know? Sure, you have every right to be pissed.

You know, I'm no "expert" but one would be ill advised to do those types of things in ANY country.

Yes, I'm not living in Thailand, but I am married to a Thai. Your constant attack on Thai people in general is not welcomed.


----------



## singto

Jamie76 said:


> So you made an investment in a person you barely know. You also handed over your ATM card to someone you barely know? Sure, you have every right to be pissed.
> 
> You know, I'm no "expert" but one would be ill advised to do those types of things in ANY country.
> 
> Yes, I'm not living in Thailand, but I am married to a Thai. Your constant attack on Thai people in general is not welcomed.


Aviador, he's right about that, certainly. Sometimes though, people are too nice (or gullible) for their own good. I also wouldn't do that in ANY country.

As far as the "attacks," he's entitled to his opinion, and frankly some of his feelings may be justified. The thing is though - there are people like this EVERYWHERE. There are good Thai people and bad Thai people... 

I'm also married to a Thai - probably been in Thailand longer than most on this board, sowed my oats thousands of times over, and have been with the same woman for 10 years now. 

But I'm not offended in the least...don't take it so personal Jamie...There is a reason why Thailand is viewed the way it is, and also a reason why it's still viewed as a third world country. People need money and if the result of them cheating someone is obtaining that goal, then some people, Thai or otherwise, have no problem in doing so.

Most Thais who speak English speak it poorly and the schools need to address this. But if you're going to live here and expect your kids to get a decent education and to speak English properly, then you'll need to put them in a private school, simple as that.


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## aviador

Most Thais who speak English speak it poorly and the schools need to address this. But if you're going to live here and expect your kids to get a decent education and to speak English properly, then you'll need to put them in a private school, simple as that.[/QUOTE]



Steve is an English language teacher from G.B. at the Language Center, Udon Thani Rajabhat University.
This university is in the north-east of Thailand; an area which is predominantly agricultural, where English language education is not in the forefront of people’s minds. He doesn’t speak a word of Thai, is married to a Thai lady, and has two children.
As well as teaching English, Steve has been writing a regular weekly column in the Education Section of the Bangkok Post for over a year.

My firsts e-mail to him.
Dear Mr. Graham.
I found your article; "WHY THAI STUDENDS DO NOT LIKE LEARNING ENGLISH" completely biased, intolerant, small minded and utterly contemptuous. How dare you criticize the time-honored methods the way languages are practiced all over the globe?

No, don't worry :>) I am a jokester and agree with you 1000%.

May I call you Steve now?

I finally found a “think alike” person.

I grew up during and in post-war Germany, attended "Gymnasium", where Latin was a compulsory subject, which I hated with a passion. Why learn a dead language no one speaks today? Of course I failed it miserably. I can still see that bald-headed assh..ole rector, attending a conference with my mother and myself present.
"Your son has absolutely no talent for languages; we are therefore forced to remove him from the program." I other words, I was kicked out and put back with the dummies in primary school.

Bad karma for the entire family. 

I was about 13 or 14, while hanging out at a former German military base, which by now was a US military installation, black marketing American cigarettes when I made friends with a nice GI, who managed to get me a pass to come and go as I pleased, and where I acquired my first rudimentary English. I fell in love with everything American, immigrated to the US at the age of 19 and was probably fluent in the English language within 2 years. Grammar, one learns as one goes along I found out. (I am a better speller than my 2 college educated sons :>)
My oldest son has 3 years of high school German and 4 years in college, but speaks NOTHING !!!!!!!!!

As a pilot, I did a great deal of traveling throughout Latin and South America and learned Spanish along the way as well.

During a well deserved vacation in 2000 I spent 2 weeks, which stretched out to almost 8 in southern Thailand and decided this is where I want to spend the rest of my days.

Since I did not care for the noise of drunken tourists and boisterous nightlife in this resort town, I had them build me small one bedroom bungalow at the edge of the jungle.

8 years ago, there were few, it no internet cafés in town.
Spying the satellite dish and a telephone line some neighborhood kids came to watch cartoons and try their hand at my 3 computers.
I made it a point, not to learn too much Thai, mainly because of the writing. Nothing could be looked up, also for the reason that I was approaching 70.
Learning Thai should be easy, because there are no plurals, no past tenses, no conjugation. A very simple language indeed if it weren't for the "tonals'.

I decided to converse with the boys strictly in English. My reasoning, they would need to be proficient in English in order to get a decent job some day. There was very little interaction with the locals anyway. At the time, Gieht 10, Eg and Muhdeng 11, Bigun 12.
All attended the primary school in Bangniang where they were supposedly taught English. Sure they could, like you stated sing songs around Christmas, I even met a young man who could read English flawlessly. One problem though, he had no idea what he was reading. 
One day, I decided to meet their teacher, a nice middle-aged Thai lady. I could not carry on a coherent conversation with this woman, her English was so bad. The blind leading the blind?
Well, all are now in middle-school. No difference, except Eg who is now 15 ½. I "inherited" him when his mother left with her latest boyfriend and lives here with me. He just has the “gift”. First it was ‘Eg want Coke’, graduated to now, ‘Papa, when you go in the kitchen, may I have another Coke please’.!!!!!!!! (I swell with pride)

Egg’s friends mouths agape are in awe, as we converse in practically perfect English.
He did have problems with irregular verbs though.
"Very simple" I said. "Just put "DID" in front of it. Instead of "saw" say "did see", or went, say "did go" etc. Works like a charm.

I raised 2 sons of my own and thought I could cope with a teenager in puberty, but it isn’t easy. Like a woman with PMS, sometimes nice sometimes nasty.

Steve answered:

In a nutshell, Thais are only going through the motions. They don't actually do anything. Everything is a cover and a front to hide their lives which are a lie.

Take a school teacher for instance. You would think that being a teacher; the first priority would be the students. No, of course not. The first priority is themselves. The children are just pawns in the game they play. The game is career advancement. 

I have a career, I am a teacher and I am respected. If everyone passes their multiple choice examinations, I get a good report, more money, and promotion; and every day that passes I am one day nearer to the government pension. The pension paid by the government for teaching children using the government guidelines, that everyone ignores, because student centered communicative language teaching does not enhance the O-Net scores of the students which does not increase my numbers, so does not reflect in promotion and more money for me.

If I drive my car, I will ignore you. If I am turning left into a busy road, I will look the other way as Buddha will take care of me (unless I am in his truck and I am not a Buddhist). If you want to come into the line of traffic, I will not let you in and if I hit you with my car, I will run away, such is the coward that I am.

The reason why there are so many stories about monsters in Isaan is because when something bad happens, nobody will admit to it. If nobody did it, then it must have been the Isaan monster. Who broke the fridge? The Isaan monster. Who ate the last slice of pizza? The Isaan monster. Who borrowed money on my Samlaw? My brother in law but don't make a fuss about it, he needed the money, don't talk about it and certainly don't ask him to repay the money.

Just a few thoughts which took me less than three minutes to type. Shows what you can do when you are motivated. Why do I teach English in Thailand? Because of the students. You will notice in the years to come, how people will change and I am hopeful that when I put down my last whiteboard marker and retire to the bar, I will be happy because I would have won the war. 

Regards Steve.


----------



## aviador

God forbid, criticizing anything in Thailand.

The hawks will swarm about you. The middle aged, bald, beer belly types who spend a few months here in their swank multimillion baht air conditioned penthouse in Bangkok, return with their “trophy” Thai wife back to the USA 

So you made an investment in a person you barely know. You also handed over your ATM card to someone you barely know? Sure, you have every right to be pissed. 

You know, I'm no "expert" but one would be ill advised to do those types of things in ANY country.

Yes, I'm not living in Thailand, but I am married to a Thai. Your constant attack on Thai people in general is not welcomed. 

I owned 2 cars, when I sold my home in the US. A Mercedes which was sold quickly and a classic BMW 524td in mint condition, one of only 5000 sold in the US between 1965 and 1966. I drove the car to Florida with the belongings of my lady friend, who lived with me or the last 10 years. Her son, whom I had known since he was a teenager offered to sell the car for me. He was now 50 some years old.

The car at the time was appraised to be worth about $7000.00. I told him to get me $5000.00 and keep the difference.

I received $1000.00.That was it.

Barely knew???

I don’t want to be lectured.


----------



## singto

aviador said:


> God forbid, criticizing anything in Thailand.
> 
> The hawks will swarm about you. The middle aged, bald, beer belly types who spend a few months here in their swank multimillion baht air conditioned penthouse in Bangkok, return with their “trophy” Thai wife back to the USA
> 
> So you made an investment in a person you barely know. You also handed over your ATM card to someone you barely know? Sure, you have every right to be pissed.
> 
> You know, I'm no "expert" but one would be ill advised to do those types of things in ANY country.
> 
> Yes, I'm not living in Thailand, but I am married to a Thai. Your constant attack on Thai people in general is not welcomed.
> 
> I owned 2 cars, when I sold my home in the US. A Mercedes which was sold quickly and a classic BMW 524td in mint condition, one of only 5000 sold in the US between 1965 and 1966. I drove the car to Florida with the belongings of my lady friend, who lived with me or the last 10 years. Her son, whom I had known since he was a teenager offered to sell the car for me. He was now 50 some years old.
> 
> The car at the time was appraised to be worth about $7000.00. I told him to get me $5000.00 and keep the difference.
> 
> I received $1000.00.That was it.
> 
> Barely knew???
> 
> I don’t want to be lectured.


Those who live here or who have lived here know the truth - those that haven't DON'T.

Jamie and Owen have their opinions and they're entitled to them, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. I can assure most people on this board that over the years I've done just about everything here in Thailand...and been in every situation. I don't speak out of knowing something for a month or two - I speak out of living here day in and day out for years.


----------



## owenjones

Singto, you really do have a problem with time.
What is this 'month or two' nonsense?
I said I'd been here for four years 'day in and day out', living the life, blah, blah, blah.
I'm not the 'old timer farang in Thailand', only four years, not 14 or whatever you said.
Sheesh, what are you saying?
Dismiss my experience because you've been here longer?
That is a lousy point of view.


----------



## singto

owenjones said:


> Singto, you really do have a problem with time.
> What is this 'month or two' nonsense?
> I said I'd been here for four years 'day in and day out', living the life, blah, blah, blah.
> I'm not the 'old timer farang in Thailand', only four years, not 14 or whatever you said.
> Sheesh, what are you saying?
> Dismiss my experience because you've been here longer?
> That is a lousy point of view.


Once again you're assuming I'm speaking specifically about you when I said one or two months. Once again, I wasn't. 

What I'm saying Owen is that alot of what you have said is rubbish, including "most guys here are old enough to have granddaughters," or to paraphrase, "I think this means: don't bother trying to move your business to Thailand" or "I'm cynical because I don't trust bar girls." 

Most male tourists aren't old enough to be grandfathers and it's relatively easy to wade through the red tape of opening a business if you have the patience. 

As far as the bar girls - go ahead Owen, believe them all you want. Men pay them to go away when they're done - not to marry them. Those that start believing their girl is different, ALA Julia Roberts, are asking for trouble.


----------



## aviador

Ah, another beautiful day in the South has come to an end. Weird “rainy” season, also known as green season this year, because it hardly rained at all. People who came here for off-season prices really got a bargain.
Down here, never less than 20° C (68°F) or seldom more than 34° C (93°F) all year around. Just my cup of tea, as the Brits says.

I am ambivalent about life as a whole and just appreciate the time I have left, in fair health, (well little aches and pains that come with living on this planet for neigh 74 years) I have already outlived the life expectancy of my parents and most of my grand parents and other ancestors as well. 

I just don’t want to be insulted when I voice an opinion, because I have more accumulated personal wisdom in my dick, just by living almost 74 years, than most of you have in your entire body.

I was married for 30 years, have 2 grown sons and 4 grand children.

Hey if some of you have condos all over the place, more power to you, enjoy it, because tomorrow may be too late.

As a pilot, I lived by the clock and was one of the first to own a “radio controlled watch” accurate to one millionth of a second a year. 
Now I don’t even wear a watch any more. The sun comes up at 06:30 and sets at 18:30. When I wake up in the morning and there is daylight out of my window, hey must be around 7. Bingo, right on.

I owned a huge house in the US; Here a small bungalow. I can live like a slob, not take a shower or shave every day. A bunch of neighborhood kids come around to play computer games and watch satellite TV. They put young life in my existence, I call them “garbage generators”. I pay a cleaning lady to take care of the mess 3000 Baht (about US$89.00) a month to straighten it out 7 days a week. My miserable Social security check of $1,250.00 is worth almost 43,000 Baht, more than some professional Thais earn.

I eat when I am hungry; I sleep when I am tired. I watch the incredible ever changing fauna of the jungle in front of me. To me this is living. [email protected] if anyone cares

Chock dee folks.


----------



## aviador

Ah, another beautiful day in the South has come to an end. Weird “rainy” season, also known as green season, because it hardly rained at all. People who came here for off-season prices really got a bargain.
Down here, never less than 20° C (68°F) or seldom more than 34° C (93°F) all year around. Just my cup of tea, as the Brits says.

I appreciate the time I have left, in fair health, well little aches and pains hat come with living on this planet for neigh 74 years? I have already outlived the life expectancy of my parents and most of my grand parents and other ancestors as well. 

I just don’t want to be insulted when I voice an opinion, because I have more accumulated personal wisdom in my dick than many of you in your in entire body.

I was married for 30 years, have 2 grown sons and 4 grand children.

Hey if some of you have condos all over the place, more power to you, enjoy it, because tomorrow may be too late.

As a pilot, I lived by the clock and was one of the first to own a “radio controlled watch” accurate to one millionth of a second a year. 
Now I don’t even wear a watch any more. The sun comes up at 06:30 and sets at 18:30. When I wake up in the morning and there is daylight out of my window, hey must be around 7. Bingo, right on.

I owned a huge house in the states, here a small bungalow. I can live like a slob, not take a shower or shave every day. A bunch of neighborhood kids come around to play computer games and watch satellite TV. The put young life in my existence, I call them “garbage generators”. I pay a cleaning lady to take care of the mess for 3000 Baht (about US$89.00) a month to straighten it out 7 days a week. My miserable Social security check of $1,250.00 is worth almost 43,000 Baht, more than some professional Thais earn.

I eat when I am hungry; I sleep when I am tired. I watch the incredible ever changing fauna of the jungle in front of me. To me that is living. [email protected] if anyone cares

Chock dee folks.


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## aviador

Double post, why ???


----------



## owenjones

singto said:


> Once again you're assuming I'm speaking specifically about you when I said one or two months. Once again, I wasn't.
> 
> What I'm saying Owen is that alot of what you have said is rubbish, including "most guys here are old enough to have granddaughters," or to paraphrase, "I think this means: don't bother trying to move your business to Thailand" or "I'm cynical because I don't trust bar girls."
> 
> Most male tourists aren't old enough to be grandfathers and it's relatively easy to wade through the red tape of opening a business if you have the patience.
> 
> As far as the bar girls - go ahead Owen, believe them all you want. Men pay them to go away when they're done - not to marry them. Those that start believing their girl is different, ALA Julia Roberts, are asking for trouble.


Well, I apologise for polluting the board with my rubbish.
Happy now?
Maybe you could find out the predominant age group and sex of the non-Thai residents - 'the guys that are here'.
Owen


----------



## synthia

singto - Thanks for the comment about bar girls. it's really sad how gullible men can be.


----------



## Kelvin Klus

*Yes. You are right!*

I am Thai, and do agree with you on several points. However, please consider that in most cities there are good and bad sides, people, etc. In big cities like Bangkok, there are more of the bad than the good.

Try rural area.. People are much nicer even though they have guns!

Plenty of expats in Southeastern, and norththern provinces of Thailand are very happy to celebrate Thai new years as seen on TV. In Udon Thani, pleanty of family with foreign husbands, and I wonder why!

Cheers,

Kelvin K






buzzer said:


> My experience in Amazing Thailand has not been to great. In fact, I'm miserable here. I don't find the people at all nice. Outwardly, yes, but deep down, no. Before I came here I was talking to someone about my intention of moving here. He said Thailand... violence with a smile. I was deeply offended then, now I can see what he meant. I'm thinking seriously about moving onward, it's difficult, because I brought everything from the US, and now I have to find another place and go through all the hassle again. If you look at some of the statistics at a site called nationmaster they will tell you weird stuff like that LOS (Land of Smiles) Thailand has the 3rd largest # of gun homicides in the world - after S.Africa and Colombia. A good source for information is the thaivisa website. You will hear a bit more negativity there maybe because it's got a lot of long-time expat posters. Good luck whatever you decide. See my other 2 posts (I just joined so I can look for info from expats from other countries as a prelude to getting out of here). I think the most successful people here find a good girlfriend who helps act as an interface to the society, and those that can learn this really really difficult language. Just one man's opinion - Buzzer


----------



## james1953

Flash said:


> I am considering various countries for retirement. Thailand is one of them. The last time I was in Thailand was in 1975 and I'm sure things have changed. I would like to learn as much as I can about it. Things like can I own property, what are the visa/immigration requirements, what is the cost of living like now, where is the best place to live etc.? Is there anyone out there who can help?



I traveled Thailand 7 times in 2005 Thur 2006 from Phuket to Chang Mai and it is easy to get around. I found in the north in Chang Mai a great number of people spoke English and had a amazing number of Ex-Pats living there. The Hospital in Chang Mai is called Chang Rai and I spent 10 days there for a problem I had. 10 days of a great private room with a view, good food, medical attention out of this world not to mention my operation the bill came to $1100.00. try that in the states! Anyway I suggest Chang Mai simply because you are in not only considered the jewel of Thailand but are close enough to the border to take a cross over tour and renter with a new 30 day visa. Unless you work in Thailand for a foreign company say the U.S. or marry which is very possible it is harder to obtain a resident visa. If you choose Chang Mai a trip by tour bus to the border cost 40.00 US round trip and the driver takes about 8 persons with him and he lets you spend the day in myanmar where you can shop. Today though with all the political strife sadly the tourist industry is at an all time low. That is not to say one shouldn't go there. When there leave the politics to the people and one will be alright. there is much culture and history in Chang Mai and I certainly did not get bored there much at all. Too much to see and do even in the surrounding countries. The climate is cooler there too being up and close with the mountains. I found to my liking Chang Mai to be the best of Thailand.


----------



## klikster

singto said:


> Since when is money the only reason for buying YOUR OWN place? I've got land (outside of Bangkok), a house on it, and I also rent a place in Bangkok. So maybe I shouldn't have bought the land?


Singto, so much of your post is accurate, why spoil it with a comment like this. You may have "got" land, but if you are a *foreigner* .. going by the classical legal definition of "ownership" .. *you* don't *own* it.

As I have told many "foreigners" many times, "You can buy land, but you can't own it."

And yes, I have been here a while .. part time since '89 and full time since '96.


----------



## singto

klikster said:


> Singto, so much of your post is accurate, why spoil it with a comment like this. You may have "got" land, but if you are a *foreigner* .. going by the classical legal definition of "ownership" .. *you* don't *own* it.
> 
> As I have told many "foreigners" many times, "You can buy land, but you can't own it."
> 
> And yes, I have been here a while .. part time since '89 and full time since '96.


While I don't own it, the wife does. We've got land and rubber trees on it, earning money - which I see on a regular basis. And as long as we're married, in her eyes it's OUR LAND. So I haven't spoiled anything...not everyone is worrying about marrying some ho who steals their property - in fact some of the land was GIVEN to US as a wedding present. As long as it earns ME money and I can do what I like with the land and my house, you're parsing words Klikster. In other words, I don't need you to tell me anything...


----------



## klikster

singto said:


> you're parsing words Klikster. In other words, I don't need you to tell me anything...


Not even, "Why not take that chip off your shoulder?"?


After reading through a few of your posts Klitster, I think the chip aimed at you is warranted. This forum is a place for people to come to get answers, information, and to chill out and learn. You've increasingly become a pain in the ass while trying to promote another site. You asked to be banned, so be it PAL.


----------



## Kelvin Klus

*I like your post, Klikster.*



klikster said:


> Not even, "Why not take that chip off your shoulder?"?
> 
> 
> After reading through a few of your posts Klitster, I think the chip aimed at you is warranted. This forum is a place for people to come to get answers, information, and to chill out and learn. You've increasingly become a pain in the ass while trying to promote another site. You asked to be banned, so be it PAL.


+++
Advice is good.
One should be glad to receive.

PS:
By the way, who is in the field of traffic or transportation.
I want to learn more about bottleneck and make it known to Thais.


----------



## King Silk

buzzer said:


> My experience in Amazing Thailand has not been to great. In fact, I'm miserable here. I don't find the people at all nice. Outwardly, yes, but deep down, no. Before I came here I was talking to someone about my intention of moving here. He said Thailand... violence with a smile. I was deeply offended then, now I can see what he meant. I'm thinking seriously about moving onward, it's difficult, because I brought everything from the US, and now I have to find another place and go through all the hassle again. If you look at some of the statistics at a site called nationmaster they will tell you weird stuff like that LOS (Land of Smiles) Thailand has the 3rd largest # of gun homicides in the world - after S.Africa and Colombia. A good source for information is the thaivisa website. You will hear a bit more negativity there maybe because it's got a lot of long-time expat posters. Good luck whatever you decide. See my other 2 posts (I just joined so I can look for info from expats from other countries as a prelude to getting out of here). I think the most successful people here find a good girlfriend who helps act as an interface to the society, and those that can learn this really really difficult language. Just one man's opinion - Buzzer


Sadly there is a lot of truth in your post Buzzy.

Also, it's not all THAT cheap now, due to bad exchange rates, and rising prices. 5yrs ago I got over 70bht to one Pound Stirling. Now it's about 50......UGH! 
There still a lot of pluses though as others have pointed out......


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## Kelvin Klus

*True in all. However, Thais in the rural country are much more nice.*



King Silk said:


> Sadly there is a lot of truth in your post Buzzy.
> 
> Also, it's not all THAT cheap now, due to bad exchange rates, and rising prices. 5yrs ago I got over 70bht to one Pound Stirling. Now it's about 50......UGH!
> There still a lot of pluses though as others have pointed out......


=====
That is true about the truth on guns, visa, limited smile.
Anyway, Bangkok people are like those in the big city all over the world -- perhaps in higher degree! -- but if you are out of the city, there is a high chance to meet nice people with smiles and honest as found in the good country.

: )


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## Marine

Beach in Thailand are so nice.


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## gleeglee

Very Sad, The man is asking for advise not english lessons, Thailand is a great country to live i know as i live here. I have a wonderful educated wife and education is everything in Thailand. Most people just go about trying to earn money for the family to survive as Thailand has no welfare system you dont work you do not eat. So yes there are a few that will try to cheat you and steal from you. This happens in every country in the world not just Thailand


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## Acid_Crow

In Thailand, hot snow falls upwards, and hamburgers eat people.


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## oddball

I have lived the life over 7 years and read the stories over many , The Thai had gone so far down hill in thier attituder 4 years ago , I moved across the border into Cambodia . The country has a long way to be as interesting as Thailand , but I find the people all over to be far friendlier , happier and more honest , they actualy want you in the country , most things you want in life are easier to obtain and visas are a breeze , I do not even fly through Swampyboom as I dislike miserable faces and irritating officialdome . Many expats are making this same transition with more of thier friends to follow them , country must have som, ething going for it , I came here to live a life not jump through hoops , if I needed that I would run away and join a circus . Thai are just full of themselves too much to appreciate them any more other than on short visits to friends , personally I have found Cambodia a much cheaper country to live in once I had learned the ropes .


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## Guest

That's interesting Oddball, I've stayed in and around PP a few times now - there I thought prices were about the same. That said once out of town in strictly Khmer areas the prices of the few things I bought there were cheap.

I too found the Khmers friendly, less attitude (again away from PP, which feels a touch dangerous in places... have seen a car break-in, bag snatches)... 

Swampy? PP airport officials are hardly a smiley bunch either! Just love that place.. how many customs officials does it take to stamp a visa into one passport? Hilarious!


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