# Am I restricted to a state when I apply for permanent residence or naturalisation?



## sdeanonsde

Hi,

I am non EU and plan to apply for PR, and then eventually naturalisation in Germany.

I have an EU funded PhD scholarship, due to which I am employed under section 18a in Berlin by a company for a 3 year contract, and at the same time I am also enrolled as a full time student in a Bavarian university. I intend to graduate from the university after 3.5 years since starting this employment contract, because I need 4-6 months to write and submit my thesis after my contract ends and then another 2 months to defend my thesis.

I must add that I am a Bioinformatician by trade and that is a shortage occupation. I already have a Bachelors and Masters degree in Bioinformatics, issued in the UK.

By the start of 2022, I would have done the following:

1) Been employed for 36 months with a long term residence permit under section 18b and paid 36 months of pension, social security etc in Berlin.
2) Submitted, defended my thesis and hopefully gained a PhD from a Bavarian university. From months 28-36, my residence switches from Berlin to Bavaria whilst still being employed at a Berlin company. I will have the option to move back to Berlin or stay in Bavaria for 6 months after my 36 months of employment in Berlin are over.

I have a few questions:

1) What is the best VISA to switch to after my work permit under section 18b expires? I need to cover at least 6-8 months whilst I write my thesis. If gaining employment makes more sense and is able to cut my total time required for German naturalisation, I am open to look into that and write my thesis in the evenings/weekends or starting writing it early so that I do not take 4-6 months to write it. Or perhaps there is another way, like paying pension or something like that, so that the months I spend writing my thesis count towards my total time spent in Germany for naturalisation?
2) I wondered if I am restricted to applying from a certain state?
3) Should I apply from Berlin for PR in 2022 or is it harder to apply from Berlin and maybe I should consider applying from another state?

I appreciate any responses and help. Thank you.


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## expat16

Hi there,

I don't know much about Germany and never lived there, but I have experience as a highly skilled migrant. Since you mention that your occupation falls under the shortage list, I imagine you could be considered a highly skilled migrant.

If that is the case and if you are able to get a job that meets certain requirements, you might be able to apply for a EU blue card. If I recall correctly, the blue card allows you to apply for permanent residence and maybe for German naturalisation earlier compared to other types of permits.

Like I said, I'm not experienced in Germany but I did have a blue card in NL so I did some research at the time, and it seems the blue card is quite popular in Germany.


ETA: Here's an article I found with some info related to doctoral studies and blue card How can I remain in Germany after my doctoral studies as an eligible worker? - Study in Germany for Free.
It says:
To get the EU Blue Card you must apply to the following documents:

The doctoral degree you received in Germany,
The sound work contract or offer related to your qualification with a minimum salary of 48.800 EUR.
Benefits of EU Blue Card:

There is a possibility to be changed into a settlement permit after 33 months of highly-qualified employment record and prove a German language proficiency of level B1,
If the language proficiency can be proved earlier, the settlement permit can be issued after only 21 months of such record.


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## expat16

Another thing, back in NL the blue card was still an obscure thing and employers would automatically apply for the standard (less beneficial) work permit even when the employee qualified for the blue card. So I would consider in your case whether you might already qualify for the blue card and can change it now..


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## sdeanonsde

Hi, thanks for responding - I did not meet salary threshold for a blue card.


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## TP94

I'm curious what answers you'll get, I'm also wondering if I'm restricted to one state for permanent residency. I've been living in Berlin for about 2 years but I plan to move and apply for permanent residency in Baden-Wurttemberg.


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## Dionysus

TP94 said:


> I'm curious what answers you'll get, I'm also wondering if I'm restricted to one state for permanent residency. I've been living in Berlin for about 2 years but I plan to move and apply for permanent residency in Baden-Wurttemberg.


Interesting... does it matter, if within the country of Germany? 'Sorry, I am not living in Europe and am in this forum only because my wife left for Europe before I retired and spent time in Germany... but I thought that if you get permanent residency in a country, it was for the entire country, not a state in a country. 'Just seems odd if so. BTW, my wife is a Norwegian citizen, and she could live in Germany if she wishes, but it is difficult, if not impossible, for her to gain employment because she does not speak German. These COVID times do not help the situation much either!


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## Bevdeforges

I was only in Germany for a couple of years, but as far as I know, residence in Germany isn't by state - it's for the entire country. The various offices you need to deal with, however, may be organized by state.


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## TP94

The problem isn't what happens once you get permanent residency, it's what you need to do to get permanent residency and how to not shoot yourself in the foot in the meantime. You have certain countries like Switzerland that require a foreigner to live in the same canton (equivalent of a Bundeslander in Germany) the whole time to get permanent residency or be naturalised and if they move to another part of the country, that effectively cancels the time spent in the country up to than, it's as if they just came in the country. You can never be too sure, that's why I'd love to get an answer on this as well, on whether you are restricted to one state in order to get permanent residency and ultimately citizenship too. Basically, whether moving to another Lander means starting all over towards permanent residency.


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## Nononymous

Can one not simply ring up the Ausländerbehörde and ask?


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## TP94

It's not that simple, we each have our individual cases and plans which do not necessarily fit in a generic same-rule-for-any-situation explanation and would even require legal advice maybe. Speaking for myself, I have 3-4 scenarios in mind depending on the answers I get.


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## Nononymous

Still, it's the logical place to start. Either that or hire an immigration lawyer.


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## TP94

While this would be ideal, not all of us have a commendable level of the German language or the money to hire an immigration lawyer. Not to mention that it could probably backfire in some cases if you start asking too many questions.


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## Nononymous

For specific, complex immigration questions, it's probably a better bet than asking random strangers on the internet.


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## Bevdeforges

TP94 said:


> While this would be ideal, not all of us have a commendable level of the German language or the money to hire an immigration lawyer. Not to mention that it could probably backfire in some cases if you start asking too many questions.


Just be aware of the other way in which this could "backfire." In many countries (certainly in much of Europe) immigration matters are normally handled by the appropriate governmental office - the Ausländerbehörde or whatever. To the government's way of thinking, there are the laws and regulations and either you meet the requirements or you don't. If you approach the government office "all lawyered up" or feel you "need" to have an attorney represent you to the appropriate office, there is a good possibility they will assume you have something to hide or that you're somehow trying to get around the law. Usually better to just come forward and ask the question yourself.


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## Nononymous

Bevdeforges said:


> Just be aware of the other way in which this could "backfire." In many countries (certainly in much of Europe) immigration matters are normally handled by the appropriate governmental office - the Ausländerbehörde or whatever. To the government's way of thinking, there are the laws and regulations and either you meet the requirements or you don't. If you approach the government office "all lawyered up" or feel you "need" to have an attorney represent you to the appropriate office, there is a good possibility they will assume you have something to hide or that you're somehow trying to get around the law. Usually better to just come forward and ask the question yourself.


I wasn't clear, but I did mean consult with a lawyer for expert advice if you can't find a suitable answer, not march in the door with a legal team in tow. That won't necessarily cost thousands. And while admittedly it's been a few years now, plus we all had good German and knew enough to assemble our papers in a well-organized binder for extra bonus points, our last visit to the Ausländerbehörde was ridiculously friendly and pleasant.


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## ALKB

sdeanonsde said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am non EU and plan to apply for PR, and then eventually naturalisation in Germany.
> 
> I have an EU funded PhD scholarship, due to which I am employed under section 18a in Berlin by a company for a 3 year contract, and at the same time I am also enrolled as a full time student in a Bavarian university. I intend to graduate from the university after 3.5 years since starting this employment contract, because I need 4-6 months to write and submit my thesis after my contract ends and then another 2 months to defend my thesis.
> 
> I must add that I am a Bioinformatician by trade and that is a shortage occupation. I already have a Bachelors and Masters degree in Bioinformatics, issued in the UK.
> 
> By the start of 2022, I would have done the following:
> 
> 1) Been employed for 36 months with a long term residence permit under section 18b and paid 36 months of pension, social security etc in Berlin.
> 2) Submitted, defended my thesis and hopefully gained a PhD from a Bavarian university. From months 28-36, my residence switches from Berlin to Bavaria whilst still being employed at a Berlin company. I will have the option to move back to Berlin or stay in Bavaria for 6 months after my 36 months of employment in Berlin are over.
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) What is the best VISA to switch to after my work permit under section 18b expires? I need to cover at least 6-8 months whilst I write my thesis. If gaining employment makes more sense and is able to cut my total time required for German naturalisation, I am open to look into that and write my thesis in the evenings/weekends or starting writing it early so that I do not take 4-6 months to write it. Or perhaps there is another way, like paying pension or something like that, so that the months I spend writing my thesis count towards my total time spent in Germany for naturalisation?
> 2) I wondered if I am restricted to applying from a certain state?
> 3) Should I apply from Berlin for PR in 2022 or is it harder to apply from Berlin and maybe I should consider applying from another state?
> 
> I appreciate any responses and help. Thank you.


You apply where you are registered. If you are resident in Berlin at the time, you apply from Berlin.

All eligible time spent in Germany counts towards PR/naturalisation. If you are on a student permit, that time may be not counted or only partially counted, it depends on the individual circumstances.


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## TP94

Bevdeforges said:


> Just be aware of the other way in which this could "backfire." In many countries (certainly in much of Europe) immigration matters are normally handled by the appropriate governmental office - the Ausländerbehörde or whatever. To the government's way of thinking, there are the laws and regulations and either you meet the requirements or you don't. If you approach the government office "all lawyered up" or feel you "need" to have an attorney represent you to the appropriate office, there is a good possibility they will assume you have something to hide or that you're somehow trying to get around the law. Usually better to just come forward and ask the question yourself.


Nobody is talking about approaching the government office lawyered up or attempting bypasses, that's not really how it works anyways. Each person has a specific set of circumstances that are not necessarily written in law, that's when a lawyer can come into play.


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