# Skilled and certified Electrician?



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Like electricians Gary, scarce as hens teeth. I employed an electrician to wire 4 power points and 6 LED lights and 4 light switches, P 1,000 per day. The LED lights glow at night when switched off even after 1 or 2 days, asked the electrician and he blamed it on the LED lights, how can that be I asked him as they are double pole light switches, he shrugged his shoulders, I suggested that it may be that because you put power and light circuits in the same conduits that some residual current from the power is activating the lights, dim but on, shrugged his shoulders yet again. Maybe because they are from Australia he said.

I sent some 60 LED light fittings from Oz some years ago in a Balakbayan box, a few weeks ago I did away with the old ES light fittings and installed half a dozen of the LED light fittings on the outside of the house, Ben and I did this and guess what? They don't glow at night like the electrician installed so now I shrug my shoulders like the apparent licensed electrician.
Back on topic I will not touch a S/S pressure tank here ever again as pump controllers are a third of the price and run a higher pressure and feel they will last longer.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Like electricians Gary, scarce as hens teeth. I employed an electrician to wire 4 power points and 6 LED lights and 4 light switches, P 1,000 per day. The LED lights glow at night when switched off even after 1 or 2 days, asked the electrician and he blamed it on the LED lights, how can that be I asked him as they are double pole light switches, he shrugged his shoulders, I suggested that it may be that because you put power and light circuits in the same conduits that some residual current from the power is activating the lights, dim but on, shrugged his shoulders yet again. Maybe because they are from Australia he said.
> 
> I sent some 60 LED light fittings from Oz some years ago in a Balakbayan box, a few weeks ago I did away with the old ES light fittings and installed half a dozen of the LED light fittings on the outside of the house, Ben and I did this and guess what? They don't glow at night like the electrician installed so now I shrug my shoulders like the apparent licensed electrician.
> Back on topic I will not touch a S/S pressure tank here ever again as pump controllers are a third of the price and run a higher pressure and feel they will last longer.
> ...


I think I remember commenting on this before, I had a similar problem with a light at the sister in laws, granted only a single pole switch but the cause was the electric company had reversed the supply into the house, sorted it the next scheduled brownout.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Yep, remember that even in my old age. All my light switches are double pole so matters little reversing poles,,, do they have such a beast here with both lines black?
All the new wiring is double insulated and in conduits, OMO but I think because the electrician cramped power circuits and light circuits in the same 20MM conduit there is some residual power going to the lights through the insulation. Not sure as I'm only a dumb plumber but as said the electrician blamed the light fittings even though the ones I installed don't glow in the dark.

Supposed tradies are some what different here to western countries especially no earths,,,, well I lie, the A/C 20 amp power points are bonded to the rebar in the CHB walls.

Going back to reversed poles I understood they are both hot lines, If I turn the breaker off to the bunk house for the workers? No glowing lights at night.
Going back to supposed 304 S/S pressure tanks? Never again, wasting your money.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Yep, remember that even in my old age. All my light switches are double pole so matters little reversing poles,,, do they have such a beast here with both lines black?
> All the new wiring is double insulated and in conduits, OMO but I think because the electrician cramped power circuits and light circuits in the same 20MM conduit there is some residual power going to the lights through the insulation. Not sure as I'm only a dumb plumber but as said the electrician blamed the light fittings even though the ones I installed don't glow in the dark.
> 
> Supposed tradies are some what different here to western countries especially no earths,,,, well I lie, the A/C 20 amp power points are bonded to the rebar in the CHB walls.
> ...


Keeping off topic I wired the house with UK twin and earth, yes with a ground stake. The fuse panel (UK) has a two pole disconnect with mcb's in the live lines. With the supply reversed flipping an mcb didn't disconnect the live and with the switch in the neutral there was enough cross coupling to let the led bulb glow. I needed to replace the switch and flipped off the mcb, bulb still glowed. flipped the disconnect next.


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

I'm a retired Master Electrician and it's the same everywhere. Eventually the entire planet will go into one giant brown out due to unqualified people wiring things. Wiring is NOT A HOBBY. All LED lamps are subject to glow from induced voltages and it doesn't take very much at all and they will strobe if they're on a dimmer not rated for LED. I short but of troubleshooting and confirmation should sort the issue out. My union is still asking me to come back (not) and the younger guys call me about once every couple of weeks to get an explanation on how something works or to get a correct code interpretation. Wish that I could work there when I come, even at my age which really isn't that old.


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

No safety grounds there that I saw in Davao City, but the white or bonded wire is what carries fault current in the event of a short circuit so if it's bonded to the rebar and the earth it's technically speaking, correct. We tend to over do the grounding thing in America and in the National Electrical Code or NFPA 70 but there are some valid reasons to do what we do.


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## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

bigpearl said:


> The LED lights glow at night when switched off even after 1 or 2 days, asked the electrician and he blamed it on the LED lights,


If your switches are the ones with the small light on the switch then that is your issue. You will need the standard switch without a light on it.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Zep said:


> If your switches are the ones with the small light on the switch then that is your issue. You will need the standard switch without a light on it.


They installed those switches throughout my house when it was built. Not a single one works as supposed to. They installed Black, White, Yellow, & Green wires indiscriminately throughout the building. When I added my well pump circuit, I extended from the wall receptacle circuit and installed a double pole w/circuit breaker type safety switch to feed it cause when I first tried to hook up the pump switch one leg was hot even with the main turned off. I do not like 220 running thru this old ticker. Replaced one of the ceiling lights a couple years ago with a LED light and it constantly glows when wall switch is in off position. 

Fred


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Zep said:


> If your switches are the ones with the small light on the switch then that is your issue. You will need the standard switch without a light on it.


No Zep they are all standard light switches, lol, the ones I wired up don't glow in the dark and I'm just a dumb plumber.
I think the problem is that the electrician put the power and light circuits in the same tight conduit.
As Appalachain suggested "induced voltages" minor leakage to the light circuit after the switch. I can live with it for now as it's only the workers residence and once they are gone in 4 or 5 months I'll address the issue.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

If all else fails you could try putting a suitable rated resistor across the back of the bulb holder, 250-500k ohms may do the trick.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Maybe Gary, as I can't find a skilled electrician that knows what's up and down.
As said when the workers leave in 4 to 6 months I will switch off their breaker and fix it myself if and when I get excited. 
The supposed qualified electrician had no idea and blamed the light fittings because they came from Australia,,,, all made in China no matter the destination, the so called skilled electrician didn't know [email protected] from clay as a simple plebian such as myself have installed over 12 of the same fittings in the house and 6 outside around the house and one set of 3 on one switch and guess what? None of them glow in the dark. I never worried about active and neutral as my understanding here in PH is they are both hot lines and matters little, Perhaps Appalachain can correct me.

I suffer the corrections here, like another member mentioned do it yourself or hire a contractor at 50 to 100% more and still you have to stand over them to get what you pay for.
3 electricians I have had working over the years here turn up with a pair of pliers and a few screwdrivers, do you have a ladder sir? Can I borrow your drill sir? Masonary or steel bits? Do you have any wire connectors sir? Can I borrow your hammer sir? Do you have a grinder that I can borrow sir? And so on.

I mentioned some years ago when we had Cignal tv installed they turned up on 2 motorbikes, no ladders, no drills and no brains. The dish and peripherals strapped to the back of the passengers. The bracing for the dish mast was simply braced with tie wire and they discarded the tubular bracing, said to the installer that we are on the beach and that tie wire will last less than a year, well I was wrong, lasted 13 months, fortunately Cignal stepped up and provided/installed a new dish with the correct bracing as the other dish was rusted big time, No charge sir. The original installers claimed that it's out of warranty sir and we need 2 or 3K to install new dish. Cignal weren't impressed and fixed the problem.

It's fun here but sometimes frustrating.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Steve, just a word of explanation, the electricity here is supplied as what is called hot and ground. The overhead cable is an insulated aluminium cable combined with a steel stringer. the aluminium cable carries your 220v ac and the steel stringer is your return path, it's not a neutral in the true sense as doesn't return to the substation. Instead it will be returned to gound at one of the nearby poles. You can tell which one because you will see a cable stapled to the side and buried with the pole. Although this wire is technically ground/earth is carries the return currents. Your third pin if connected is what is called a clean earth and only carries current under fault conditions.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hear what you say Gary but how many houses/buildings have a common earth? Australia We have single pole breakers unless an RCD or ELCB which is double pole, active neutral and earth, why do you think they have double pole breakers for all power and light circuits here? They both carry 220 volts. I don't want to die so I studied the system here, not very reassuring and then some.

Somehow the old owner here hot wired the live lines feeding the house (75 amps) when he added the studio, some 40M2 building with no breaker in the house where it is fed from but the studio has its own 4 double pole breakers (sub mains that can't be isolated welcome to the Philippines) in a switch board for some 8 Double power points on one breaker and 2 light circuits breakers10 amps each go figure for 6 light fittings is plenty, One 30 or 40 amp breaker for the A/C. I can't isolate the studio for up coming works and will improvise.

We had supposedly the best electrician in La Union look at the proposed works and upgrades,,,,,, Yes sir you need to upgrade the whole system to 160 amps to make this happen, 160 amps I asked yes sir because when you run your 6 or 7 A/C units and the house demands that is my recommendation, lol, what's the chance of running 6 or 7 A/C units every day? We 4 A/C units and only run one for 12 hours a day in the master B/R and if in the office I turn off the bedroom and turn on the office, Mr electrician has worked fine for many years and the 4 A/C units have their own breakers on a 75 amp breaker..... How much to upgrade? Some days later. 350 to 400K sir, told him to [email protected] off and go screw a Filipino.
160 amp upgrade? Pull the chain mate,
Sorry for the rant.

Cheers, Steve.


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

When I lived in Tagum city I had an instant hot water heater installed in my shower. Every time I turned it on high it would blow the main breaker. The unskilled unlicensed worker wired it to the main wire coming into the house. Never ran it to a breaker box because all the breakers were being used. there were spaces for new breakers in the circuit box, but the worker didn't put in a new breaker.

This is the kind of garbage that they do there. I am a class "C" contractor, but I thought he knew what he was doing, so I never watch him. He was recommended by the Citi hardware store in Tagum city.

art


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

When we built these two units I did all the wiring using UK parts. As part of the requirements for the supply connection we needed a electrical schematic. We employed a lad down the road and he did a reasonable job of interpreting my schematic. It did the job, nobody even looked at it, I doubt if a local electrician could follow it. It ticked the box so all's good.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Hear what you say Gary but how many houses/buildings have a common earth? Australia We have single pole breakers unless an RCD or ELCB which is double pole, active neutral and earth, why do you think they have double pole breakers for all power and light circuits here? They both carry 220 volts. I don't want to die so I studied the system here, not very reassuring and then some.
> 
> Somehow the old owner here hot wired the live lines feeding the house (75 amps) when he added the studio, some 40M2 building with no breaker in the house where it is fed from but the studio has its own 4 double pole breakers (sub mains that can't be isolated welcome to the Philippines) in a switch board for some 8 Double power points on one breaker and 2 light circuits breakers10 amps each go figure for 6 light fittings is plenty, One 30 or 40 amp breaker for the A/C. I can't isolate the studio for up coming works and will improvise.
> 
> ...


When they size the system they count the number of outlets and asign loads as though you will run everything at the same time. Where westerners fall foul is that we are used to having more than one outlet in each room. I have 5 doubles and 4 singles in our kitchen diner.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Understand, we have 18 to 20 double gpo's in the house split up I asume within some of the 9 x 20 amp breakers, I think 2 of the 20 amp circuits are for the 1 HP A/C units in the 2 spare bedrooms 3 x 15 amp for lights and 4 x 30 amp for 2 shower water heaters and 2 x large A/C units. Add that up and it's 345 amps on a 75 amp main breaker.
Throw in the hot wired studio with its own switch board with 4 breakers, one running an A/C gpo, 2 running 6 double gpo's and one for the 6 lights in there.
Also now the bunk house on an existing 20 amp circuit from the master BR power running 4 double gpo's and 6 x 12watt LED lights. Twice a day they run 2 large rice cookers together and other stuff including a mid sized fridge and never dropped the breaker even with the electric kettle at the same time.
Maybe all the breakers are faulty? Never dropped the 75 amp breaker let alone the power circuits.

In Oz, 4 bed 3 bath house, huge rumpus room, triple car garage, electric hot water, a 12 x 16 metre industrial shed with 2 dedicated 15 amp outlets for welding, 8 x 10 amp double gpo's, 12 double 36 watt fluro lights, 2 x 500 watt flood lights, a 1 Hp pump for the house water, a 2 HP pump from the dam, 2 x 1and a half HP pumps for the wet edge pool, forgot the electric cooker on its own 20 amp breaker,,,,, or was it 30 amps? The central A/C, forgot about that too.
Point is that my main supply in Oz all newly installed undergrounds to the meter was 100 amp and then split to 3 sub boards all underground and never dropped a breaker. You are a brave man if you use more than 75 to 100 amps at any one time, 100 amps is like 24,000 watts.
The electrician that wanted/quoted me for a 160 amp system maxed every thing out to like 40,000 watts per hour that's why I told him to POQ.

Sorry for the rant but as someone here said, gouging.

Cheers, Steve,


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

If think if we draw 100 amp the voltage would be down to about 15 volts. We were having some heavy welding done putting up the water tower and when the welder started up the mainline dropped by about two feet with the thermal expansion. And all of the many taped joints sparked.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Taped joints? A no no for me and supply my own insulated connectors as the fools here simply like to twitch wires and insulation tape, no solder just wind the wires together, the first time I saw that here was a shock not just for me but the unwary followers.
As for drawing 100 amps? Or 22 Kwh? Imagine the bill. My electricity bill is like 600 Kwh or less per month so over 30 days averages 20 Kwh per day or 1.2 Kw per hour,,,,, a measly 5/6 amp draw on average per hour,,,,,, yes sir you need to upgrade to a 160 amp system. 

I am not silly and don't let people take the [email protected]

Cheers. Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

A lot of the main line here looks to be made up of short bits with twisted and taped joints.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

There are few electricians in the Philippines. 16 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers are not uncommon and a fire waiting to happen. As most companies supply 230V and appliances bought here require this 14 gauge wire with a 15A breaker is more than sufficient. I have all the usual appliances plus a multi-split AC unit and a single split AC unit. My main breaker is 50A because I had one laying around and it's never tripped. I have a clamp on amp meter and ran a load test a couple of years ago. Even with all appliances on the max amps I saw was 35 when the water pump started.
When inquiring about an AC installation I asked the contractor what wire he would use and where he would ground it. He said, "Oh sir we use 12 gauge wire but use a 50 amp breaker to be sure there is plenty of power.There is no need for ground in the Philippines because Meralco supplies the ground."
You can't make this stuff up


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm not sure if It was a condo or sub division being built in Dumageute but the plans specified third pin grounding. When pushed the builders said that the ground was not connected because the electricity company didn't supply a ground.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

160 amps! Thats 35 000 watt at same time 🤣
(Volt x Amphere = Watt.)

(For comparing Swedish appartments with central heating, so not needing electricity for neither heating nor AC, has only 16 amps MAIN fuze normaly...)


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Exactly Luncan. I'm sure my 75 amp line and main breaker will cope, not a 160amp system. 

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> I'm not sure if It was a condo or sub division being built in Dumageute but the plans specified third pin grounding. When pushed the builders said that the ground was not connected because the electricity company didn't supply a ground.


Reverse thinking and used to it now, [email protected] happens and deal with it we do.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

I am not an electrician, but this is my understanding.

The only purpose of a circuit breaker (or fuse) is to protect the wiring from burning up, and possibly causing a house fire.

For examples
If you have 12 gauge wiring, use 20 amp circuit breaker
If you have 14 gauge wiring, use 15 amp circuit breaker
If you have 16 gauge wire, sell your house because you need to completely rewire your house.

If you need a 30 amp appliance, use a 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wiring. (I think its 10 gauge)

If you have 15 amp breaker, even your extension cord or power bar must be 14 gauge wire. If 16 gauge wire, it is a fire hazard.

If your 15 amp breaker keeps tripping, do not put a larger breaker amperage in. Assuming the 15 amp breaker is not faulty, the problem is too much load plugged into that circuit. Add another breaker and house wire, or just don't use so many appliances at once. It's all safe if the wiring gauge matches the breaker.

If you have an electrical outlet within 6 feet of water (sink, tub, toilet) then the outlet must be a GFCI to protect from electrocution.

You need a real copper grounding rod, its wire going into the circuit breaker box. All outlets must be 3 prong. Hot, neutral, and ground. There are low cost outlet testers to test every outlet in your home is wired correctly

In my Makati hotel room I used a tester on every outlet. They all passed.


This is the very basics of wiring safety.

I'm sure an expat electrician will agree.


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

hey Howard Z,

you are right. The guy that wired my instant water heater in my bathroom was a total idiot. That is what breakers are for to trip if an overload or short is detected. It is a wonder I didn't have a fire in the main line coming into my place in the attic. this guy was recommended by Citi hardware. They said he was a real good electrician. I am a class "C" builder and I know better than what he did there. I ask him how he wired the line, but he said it was taken care of and he been doing electrical work for 15 years. After the main breaker tripped 2 times I got into the attic and saw where he had tied the line to the main line coming into the house. I have found out most Filipino workers don't know what they are doing. they are working without proper license. Citi hardware said he was good. hahhahha
art


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

Also, all the 12 gauge wire in my house is SOLID COPPER WIRE protected by 15 or 20 amp breaker.

The thicker wire for hot water heater, clothes dryer, and electric stove/oven, I am not sure if it is solid or stranded copper.

Never use aluminum wire. Aluminum wire has a bad reputation. Causing house fires. I do not know if aluminum wire got over the problems. But, don't be cheap, use copper.

H


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Howard_Z said:


> Also, all the 12 gauge wire in my house is SOLID COPPER WIRE protected by 15 or 20 amp breaker.
> 
> The thicker wire for hot water heater, clothes dryer, and electric stove/oven, I am not sure if it is solid or stranded copper.
> 
> ...


Agree Howard, properly sized wires and correct breakers and yes copper feeds.
Problem here is they don't normally run MEN systems (multiple earthed neutrals) Hence single pole breakers on the active feed in most countries. Here it means without an earth, double pole breakers are required as from my understanding is both lines are hot, only a dumb retired plumber and perhaps some one can correct me.

As you mentioned Howard a copper earth bonding stake and then elcb's and rcd's work well, for me here? I would need to rewire the whole house and then the problem is to find an electrician that is up to speed on earthed systems.
Here it's simply 2 black wires so with an MEN system there is an active and neutral colour coding like red and black and a green earth.
Here? Matters little which way you connect as there is no earthing and the 4 x 30 amp breakers that are earthed on rebars in the wall? Will they work?

OMO, 

Cheers, Steve.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

I'm no expert.
I can't change a circuit breaker.
I don't know how to wire a circuit breaker box.

I can change light switches, and electric outlets in the USA.
I own a 240 volt outlet checking device.

On USA 3 prong outlets
The left slot is longer for neutral
The right slot is shorter for hot
The bottom not exactly round hole is ground. 

I've read that many Philippines homes are wired unsafely. People routinely get shocked by their refrigerator.

And I read it is very difficult in Philippines to find an electrician who knows how wire anything safely and correctly.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Yes and for some reason works. I notice all the time when my macbook pro is charging and I'm using it I get little tingles if say my wrist touches the laptop while I'm typing, I don't for some reason get that with my HP laptop.

To find a plumber (yes I am one but too old and lazy to get in a trench) or a decent electrician? Pigs apparently can fly.
Deal with it and always wary of my power supply here no different to any of the workers being petrified of my lazer level unless I'm driving it then they are happy.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm sure I've it said before, there are more deaths in the Philippines due to electrocution in floods than drowning.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Waiting for the Tsunami Gary as only 6 or 7 metres above sea level here. When and if it happens I hope I'm asleep in bed, good night Josephine.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

At a convenient scheduled brown-out when I wired in the auto change over for the generator I also put in a 2-pole 100 amp switch disconnector so that I can isolate to house at the meter.. In the UK you have a big fuse you can pull for maintenance. The consumer unit (fuse board) in both units also has one similar. In my unit the consumer unit is split into two with two 63amp 2-pole RCB before the single pole mcb's. I've split the inside from the outside for the aircon power and Christmas lights. The smaller front unit just has a single RCB etc.

The biggest problem though is maintenance whilst I'm away. The local electricians just scratch their head with not have an fing clue. My worry is they would try and bodge around things to get it working. We had trouble with the water last time we were away when they had to change the ball valve. The pump kept runner because they opened all of the valve, including the bypass.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Little more needs to be said.

Cheers, Steve.


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

What I want to know is where did these guys learned to do electric??? I am not a licensed electrician, but I have dealt with it since 1980 since I am a class "C" contractor. I have never seen such electrical wiring mess in my life. Who would wire a heater into a main line and not to a breaker. I have enough knowledge to know it would overload and blow main fuses when turned on high. 

art


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

Philippine Electrical Wiring – Building our Philippine House – My Philippine Life


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

art1946 said:


> What I want to know is where did these guys learned to do electric??? I am not a licensed electrician, but I have dealt with it since 1980 since I am a class "C" contractor. I have never seen such electrical wiring mess in my life. Who would wire a heater into a main line and not to a breaker. I have enough knowledge to know it would overload and blow main fuses when turned on high.
> 
> art


They have classes here, skilled classes but they run about 100 pesos a day and also the children learn the trade or other family members learn by working together, some do get certified, nobody in our area though, and those guys probably work jobs outside the Philippines or are sought after on any major construction site.


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

hey mark

I hope none of these so-called electricians wired your house. hahaahaha When in Tagum city I got a guy from Citi hardware to put in an instant heater in bathroom for hot water. The uncertified technician tied the line from heater to the main wire coming into the house. When I would turn up the heater it would blow all the electric in the house. I had to wait a few minutes and turn the main breaker back on again. The stupid guy should have run the wire to the breaker box. There was another empty spot for another breaker.

I am not a licensed electrician but i am a class "C" contractor. I know the right way to do electric. 

art


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

When I was looking for a shower hot water heater at Citi a few years ago the salesman told me to be sure and hire a qualified electrician as some people get electrocuted with the heaters. Just so happened to have a 'qualified' electrician in the store. The heater was out of the box and I asked the electrician how he would hook it up. He said he may have to install a 30A breaker. When I showed him the instructions which said "this unit must be grounded" he looked confused.
That being said the Philippine Merchant Marine Academy turns out some good engineers that know their electrical, sadly they leave the country straight after school. The PRC registered electrical engineers are pretty sharp too but they don't work for Citi, Wilcon or the like.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

One of the problems here are that the fittings are basically junk, so even installed by a competent electrician it won't be long before it starts to degrade.


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

hey quezon expat.

Welcome to the world of unexperienced workers in the Philippines. He didn't know how to ground the heater. hahahaha He probably would use a bucket of dirt and stick the ground cable in it. SMILED!!!!

art


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

hey gard D,

I agree with the cheap products there. 

art


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

art1946 said:


> Welcome to the world of unexperienced workers in the Philippines.


 Many have many years experience without knowing how to do things 🤣


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

Gary D said:


> Steve, just a word of explanation, the electricity here is supplied as what is called hot and ground. The overhead cable is an insulated aluminium cable combined with a steel stringer. the aluminium cable carries your 220v ac and the steel stringer is your return path, it's not a neutral in the true sense as doesn't return to the substation. Instead it will be returned to gound at one of the nearby poles. You can tell which one because you will see a cable stapled to the side and buried with the pole. Although this wire is technically ground/earth is carries the return currents. Your third pin if connected is what is called a clean earth and only carries current under fault conditions.


Ahhhhh, but I observed that a lot of the older residences have strictly 110/120 volts running to them. This is why there aren't a great many clothes dryers and everyone hangs their clothes out to dry or standard 220 volt ovens as seen here in America. It's one hot wire and one neutral going to most homes and everything inside runs on 120. If you have three wires going into your home, then you may have 220. LED lights are very very sensitive. They can read transient voltages coming back through the neutral/intentionally grounded wire which is the return path to earth. Then installing a suitable, SUITABLE, resistor might get rid of it but a resistive load generates heat and heat can lead to fire. I have to say these things to keep may butt out of trouble. If your house is only 110 volt, it may be difficult to get rid of the flow because EVERYTHING in the house is sharing that feed and sharing the same neutral and electricity or current must have a return path to earth ground to "flow". If I were there at your place with my digital meter(s) we might be able to mitigate the issue by getting all of the lighting on a separate neutral back to the source. The most troublesome ghosts in electrical systems typically involve neutrals and loose connections. LED is very sensitive, my LED interior light on my pick up glows continually because it's tied into some other circuit in my truck but it never runs the battery down. A lot of dimmer switches don't work and a dimmer must be matched to the LED's or they'll strobe because a standard dimmer is seeking a load to dim but LED doesn't offer a significant amount of load so the dimmer starts pulsing still searching and caused the LED lights to blink. If you wire just one temporary socket across the same.circuit wires and screw in an incandescent bulb, the dimmer recognizes the filament load and then the LED's will dim. The only places I identified in Davao with 220v are commercial buildings. Now, we're not even going to talk about the differences in three phase commercial voltages and single phase residential voltages.

Clear as mud now, right ?


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

This is the two wire feed into the in laws house. 120 only.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

My limited understanding is 120v is a legacy from the US days and pretty much exclusive to the old US bases because US servicemen would ship the whole household when serving abroad. The US bases in Europe are wired for 120v for this same reason. 120v appliances aren't generally available in the Philippines, we had no problem sourcing a 220v oven and washer/ dryer.

Here is the earth return on the pole outside our house.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm 220 volts also and OMO the system they operate on here is dangerous,,,,, save a few pesos on earthing every thing properly so ELCB's and RCD's can save lives. Unfortunately the cost to upgrade the existing installation (house) is prohibitive but new sub mains/extensions will all be earthed.
Finding an electrician that knows what he is doing here is the biggest issue. In another post I mentioned glowing LED lights that an electrician installed, 6 of them glow when the switches are off, the 20 odd that I personally installed don't glow. The stupid electrician blamed the light fittings and not his work,,,,, he won't be back.

I have had a few electricians here over the years and they simply rock up with a hand full of tools and beg borrow and steal every thing else. Same as the installers from Cignal, dish mounted on the roof and no ladder.
Rock up on motorbikes.

Sorry for going on about electricians here as well as an antiquated system.

Cheers, Steve.


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

A high quality ground electrode is important and in loose sandy soils, two ground rods spaced six feet apart are preferable. Good luck with that. 

While I was there I checked the numbers of accidental electrocutions and they were considerably lower than I would have thought. 

You guys with 220v live in a place with better utility feeds than where my fiancee is.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

AppalachianBiker said:


> A high quality ground electrode is important and in loose sandy soils, two ground rods spaced six feet apart are preferable. Good luck with that.
> 
> While I was there I checked the numbers of accidental electrocutions and they were considerably lower than I would have thought.
> 
> You guys with 220v live in a place with better utility feeds than where my fiancee is.


Can I ask where your lady is to only have 120 volts?

Yes Grounding here on the beach is a problem, sand but the interesting thing is that I have 4 earthed A/C units. Earth wires are connected in the rendered concrete walls to the rebar, the house footings are 5 to 6 ft deep so to earth through the rebar and concrete must require moister as dry concrete is not a conductor.

My biggest worry is finding a solar Company for a stand alone system that knows what they are doing let alone travel 5 or 6 hours from Manila, "sorry sir we don't service your area". I'm talking about a 1.2 to 1.4 M system here. They want to sell me the components but won't install..... Back to the hopeless electricians here.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Can I ask where your lady is to only have 120 volts?
> 
> Yes Grounding here on the beach is a problem, sand but the interesting thing is that I have 4 earthed A/C units. Earth wires are connected in the rendered concrete walls to the rebar, the house footings are 5 to 6 ft deep so to earth through the rebar and concrete must require moister as dry concrete is not a conductor.
> 
> ...


Although concrete is an insulator it's an imperfect insulator. You can still get a belt standing on a concrete floor.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

art1946 said:


> hey mark
> 
> I hope none of these so-called electricians wired your house. hahaahaha When in Tagum city I got a guy from Citi hardware to put in an instant heater in bathroom for hot water. The uncertified technician tied the line from heater to the main wire coming into the house. When I would turn up the heater it would blow all the electric in the house. I had to wait a few minutes and turn the main breaker back on again. The stupid guy should have run the wire to the breaker box. There was another empty spot for another breaker.
> 
> ...


Our entire house has been wired by amateurs and unskilled workers.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> Can I ask where your lady is to only have 120 volts?
> 
> Yes Grounding here on the beach is a problem, sand but the interesting thing is that I have 4 earthed A/C units. Earth wires are connected in the rendered concrete walls to the rebar, the house footings are 5 to 6 ft deep so to earth through the rebar and concrete must require moister as dry concrete is not a conductor.
> 
> ...


I know 2 solar installers that do good work. One in Calamba and another a little north of Manila


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

TY sir but I never found one in years, perhaps you can recommend?

Cheers, Steve.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> TY sir but I never found one in years, perhaps you can recommend?
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Solar Panels Philippines: Solaren Renewable Energy Solutions Top notch people and top of the line equipment. Head honcho is from UK and quite helpful.


JMP Solar can be found on FB JMP SOLAR POWER ENT.
Very impressed with their installation. They put surge protectors on inlet power to inverter as well as the solar panels, not everyone does this.
You can email them [email protected]


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Quezon Expat said:


> Solar Panels Philippines: Solaren Renewable Energy Solutions Top notch people and top of the line equipment. Head honcho is from UK and quite helpful.


 It seem they break the law  = Philippine businesses (except export) arent allowed to be dominated by foreign knowledge...


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Lunkan said:


> It seem they break the law  = Philippine businesses (except export) arent allowed to be dominated by foreign knowledge...


The people there are Filipino and don't need any foreign knowledge, they are super sharp. One should investigate carefully before accusing anyone of breaking the law. Libel is taken very seriously here.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Quezon Expat said:


> The people there are Filipino and don't need any foreign knowledge, they are super sharp.


 How do you know that...? 
You said yourself... 


Quezon Expat said:


> *Head* honcho is from *UK* and quite helpful.





Quezon Expat said:


> One should investigate carefully before accusing anyone of breaking the law. Libel is taken very seriously here.


 I didnt acuse, I said "seem". It realy seem so BECAUSE* you *said yourself they are so much better than the normal...
Theese Filipinos need to have got that knowledge from somewhere...


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Lunkan said:


> How do you know that...?
> You said yourself...
> 
> 
> ...


Books, some even take industry training classes out of the Philippines. Filipinos are allowed to do that. If there was no foreign knowledge in the Philippines there would be very little industry. Nestle, Proctor and Gamble, Coca Cola, Unilever among many others run on foreign knowledge in the Philippines.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Quezon Expat said:


> Books, some even take industry training classes out of the Philippines. Filipinos are allowed to do that. If there was no foreign knowledge in the Philippines there would be very little industry. Nestle, Proctor and Gamble, Coca Cola, Unilever among many others run on foreign knowledge in the Philippines.


 Yes, of course Filipinos are allowed to get courses, but are you sure the UK guy havent contributed "to much" ? 

Its illegal IF these multinational companies have dominating knowledge in their companies in Phils.. 
(But these big guys have much better possibility to find and get Filipinos, who have much knowledge allready e g by being OFW or got education abroad. For me it took years to find a suiting Filipino  He has been OFW.)
And of course there are some knowledge in Phils too, which can be compleeted to become good, its enough if Filipinos have 51 % of the needed knowledge to make the foreign knowledge not being dominating


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

So many experts and so little time. I'm out.





__





Loading…






m.facebook.com


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

AppalachianBiker said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thats one more, who claim geting energy out of nothing! That "idea" is related to same as generators and electric engines, but need movement to make energy, and need energy to make movement... 

Some similar to the Philippine "invention", claiming this modification device make cars just need added water as fuel. Its partly true by electricity can split the water into fuel, BUT it only functions until the electricity in the preloaded car battery get empty, so the demo "proof it functions" travel was around 50 meters... 🤣


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

Magnetism is invisible motion.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

AppalachianBiker said:


> Magnetism is invisible motion.


 But generators and electric motors are with magnets and wires and have moving parts anyway.


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## AppalachianBiker (10 mo ago)

With all of the experts here, one would think they could do their own and quit complaining about the locals. Buy a book on wiring, get busy.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

AppalachianBiker said:


> With all of the experts here, one would think they could do their own and quit complaining about the locals. Buy a book on wiring, get busy.


Most of the skilled workers here are gamefully employed and so what's left is unskilled workers or standby workers they are found hanging around on the roads or In-laws and so there maybe a real need to restore the power or fix an issue so time could also be a factor.

Electricity would be the one area if you've never worked in this field it's deadly (long story, my Grandpa was electracuted) so good idea to research this. 

It takes time to find skilled workers and when you do find them get their contact number but when it comes to electricity "deadly" as I mentioned, can't reiterate that enough, I would also hire someone to do the job, the cost of labor vs the dangers... it's not worth it.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

If no heart problem, 220 V hurt but isnt so dangerous EXCEPT if get electricity through from one hand to other hand or legs by the other tough earth at same time as e g a waterpipe. 
I know because as kid I got electricuted when I tried to repair a lamp in the black dark to get light haha Just got numb in the arm a few hours.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

AppalachianBiker said:


> With all of the experts here, one would think they could do their own and quit complaining about the locals. Buy a book on wiring, get busy.


I for one appreciate your input and expertise AB, as said I'm just a dumb licensed plumber for 45 years. Now retired.
OMO but this is an open expat site/forum and my understanding is we are all here to share knowledge and experiences, learn and at times be corrected. Your input will be valuable to all members here and I personally hope you continue to contribute your thoughts.
Running wires is easy if you have a few brains and know the correct standards, I have wired houses, motorhomes and film/television trucks but guess what? I always employ a licensed electrician for the switchboard and anything too technical for a bloke like me, they connect, check my work and sign off.

Example here in PH. 220v, 75A main line/breaker, 3 x 1 HP and 1 x 2.5 HP A/C's (Dual inverter LG's) a 24/5 cubic ft LG linear inverter fridge/freezer, multiple LED TV's, auto W/M and dryer, a 1HP water pump and all the normal house stuff and we averaged 400Kw over a month, 9 workers here now living in the big bunk house, running a 10 cubic ft fridge, pedestal fans, 6 LED lights, gadget charging etc. we are using 660Kw per month or 22Kwh per day. Just an idea of what we consume. Once the reno's are completed we go back to the original scenario.

New works include 2 more 1HP A/C's, around 15 x 12w and 6w LED lights, 2 x remote roller doors for the garage. There is only 2 of us living here 90% of the time.

We have had 2 electrical contractors here to quote for a new underground supply, new mains to the power pole for supply, 2 new sub boards, one for the garage and one main in the pump house for distribution to house and garage.
They both came up with a 160amp supply and 300,000 plus quotes. that's like 35Kw per hour so I gather they simply worked that out on everything running all the time. I doubt they even considered supplies getting hot in underground installations?
My conclusion is that the existing 75A system will work or if overloaded the breaker will drop and then a rethink.

Sorry for the rant and hope you can share your experience for all members.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

What you have to remember is when it comes to sizing here they don't have a clue, and suspect the professors at college know about as much. I have 2x 1hp and 1 x 2hp aircon, big two door fridge/ freezer, microwave, kettle, air frier, toaster, electric shower, electric oven, plus fan and various kitchen gadgets. Oh and the chest freezer in the garage with automatic roller door. And next door unit which is currently occupied we use just under 600kWH a month. I've no idea what my supply is rated for but if I could draw 75amps all of the lights in the street would go out.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Gary D said:


> What you have to remember is when it comes to sizing here they don't have a clue, and suspect the professors at college know about as much. I have 2x 1hp and 1 x 2hp aircon, big two door fridge/ freezer, microwave, kettle, air frier, toaster, electric shower, electric oven, plus fan and various kitchen gadgets. Oh and the chest freezer in the garage with automatic roller door. And next door unit which is currently occupied we use just under 600kWH a month. I've no idea what my supply is rated for but if I could draw 75amps all of the lights in the street would go out.


The relationship between load, ampacity of wire and breakers is truly lacking. I was in a rental house with few functioning receptacles. Took a look and they were burnt, supplied with 16ga. wire from a 30A breaker. The quality of licensed electrical engineers varies greatly. Electricians even more so. Best to get a little electrical handbook and double check, it's not rocket science.
My electrical load and monthly KW usage is almost identical to yours. After buying a diesel generator for standby we started everything while doing a load test. Maximum amps I saw was less than 40 and that was due to inrush current to the water pump, running max load was less about 30A but we have no electric dryer. Appliances and AC are all inverter so YMMV.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Golly what would the mayor and governor say if the street lights went out here?

Its easy enough to work out an average Gary, Average is the operative word because there are peaks and lows. @600Kw per month = 20Kw per day divided by 24 hours = 834 watts per hour or a supply load of roughly 3.8 amps per hour. You might go to 2 to 8 amps. As for sizing? Gouging rings a bell but what's new here if you are a foreigner? Sir you need a 160 amp system. Sorry not running pizza ovens here, cya.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Quezon Expat said:


> The relationship between load, ampacity of wire and breakers is truly lacking. I was in a rental house with few functioning receptacles. Took a look and they were burnt, supplied with 16ga. wire from a 30A breaker. The quality of licensed electrical engineers varies greatly. Electricians even more so. Best to get a little electrical handbook and double check, it's not rocket science.
> My electrical load and monthly KW usage is almost identical to yours. After buying a diesel generator for standby we started everything while doing a load test. Maximum amps I saw was less than 40 and that was due to inrush current to the water pump, running max load was less about 30A but we have no electric dryer. Appliances and AC are all inverter so YMMV.


What size generator if I may ask?

Cheers, Steve.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> What size generator if I may ask?
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Only 6KW. Just enough to keep food and me cool in case of prolonged outage. 6KW is what it says but actually about 4.5. I was going to buy batteries for a hybrid solar system but a cheap diesel generator was more cost effective since Meralco is pretty dependable here. So went with net metering solar and a cheap generator.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I assume you tong tested the active wire to find that load? 30 amps = 6,600 watts and 40 amps =watts8,800w.
My 5.5 Honda is only good to run the bedroom A/C, the fridge, internet, the TV and a few lights. Maybe more but not pushing.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> I assume you tong tested the active wire to find that load? 30 amps = 6,600 watts and 40 amps =watts8,800w.
> My 5.5 Honda is only good to run the bedroom A/C, the fridge, internet, the TV and a few lights. Maybe more but noyt pushing.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Actually I could not keep the load up for long, oven got hot, AC reduced etc. Just now with one AC on and a toaster oven we are pulling 10.4 amps, total 2.39 KW, toaster oven off 3.5A. I can run 3 AC of the multi-split and everything else but the washer with the generator. I can run the washer too if I wash in cold water, the internal water heater draws a lot.
I can monitor load continuously with the inverter program. Last months total consumption was 686KWH but I fed 384 KWH back to Meralco.


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