# Read this then tell me the spanish dont have it in for the english !



## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

in love with spain like i am ?
want to move there as i do ?
maybe this will make you think again

Costa News - Killing the golden geese


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

My first impression is that 

1) They're maybe offering games or entertainment without licences. 
2) There are noise concerns.

This sort of clamp down is happening in NON-EXPAT areas too. The mayor where I work has just been forced to shut down a karaoke thing here. They had no licence - but was a small bar and so they turned a blind eye. But there was a ruccus one night outside the bar - and the rest was a foregone conclusion.


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree totally with what Chris says. One of the owners in the article admitted he was breaking the law, but "it was what the clients wanted"... would he say the same if it was selling drugs?
I don't understand why people would want to visit Spain to do the same thing they do at home. Maybe if they visited Spain to enjoy Spanish culture, a unique heritage, thousands of cultural activities throughout the year in which the whole community take part and a very varied gastronomy complimented by fine wines which are as different as they areas where they are produced, they wouldn't have time for quiz nights and and bingo so they wouldn't miss them. I am not critisizing these past times, I just think that visiting another country should be an opportunity to experiment another way of life.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

No sympathy here, either. "When in Rome etc" "Give unto Caeasar what is Caesar's etc..."


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

anles said:


> Maybe if they visited Spain to enjoy Spanish culture, ....they wouldn't have time .... bingo so they wouldn't miss them.


Don't misunderstand me - BINGO is HUGE business in real Spanish Spain. We used to live across the road (a narrow one) from one in Madrid - opened until 05:30 every day. Was better than an alarm clock. The one plus was they had armed guys on the doors so your car was safe most of the night if you were parked close.

They are businesses and pay gambling licences. So anybody offering freebie unlicensed alternatives will be VERY much in their line of sight. 

Problem is that many small bars simply cannot afford the licences - so risk it 'til they're caught. Not sure how music fares up either. Given the current antics of the group protecting music authors rights at small town fairs etc - it'll get tough too soon. But it's NOT anti expat. It's anti "not pay revenue".


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Exact ..if the Spanish bars have to pay, so should the Brit bars. 

I was in BCN in September and bumped into a rep for Digital+ He was placing stickers for their telecom service prominently through a bar. He said that the ONLY bars authorised to show La Liga were those with these stickers and who had paid a license. They were being encouraged to report ANY bar that had football without these stickers. Good for the rep as this was a great sales lead for him and good for the bar as it protects his investment. 

I HAVE NEVER EVER seen a Brit Bar with such a sticker.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It sounds good to me, maybe they can turn it into Spain instead of Blackpool in the sun! So good on em, its just a shame it took so long

Jo


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

*maybe blackpool is what they want ?*



jojo said:


> It sounds good to me, maybe they can turn it into Spain instead of Blackpool in the sun! So good on em, its just a shame it took so long
> 
> Jo


seems a bit stupid when the people who have kept lining the pockets of the spain for so long (tourists) are having taken away from them what they want though. would it not make sense to lower the expensive licensing laws ? so that the small bars and clubs which keep alive places like benidorm etc alive. instead of dieing an obvious death if they persist in this. 
just a thought


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Unlike AFAIK anybody else on this forum, I have actually owned a bar in Spain. The FAVOURITE subject of conversation among fellow bar-owners was how many rules and regulations there were. The REALITY/the TRUTH was that compared to my businesses in the UK there were far fewer and those that there were seemed pretty sensible. The bar next to me seemed intent in pushing the police to the limit as regards noise/terrace size etc. Was I surprised that she seemed to have many more brushes with the authority than I did? The REALITY/the TRUTH is that I could not open a pub in London with so little paperwork, nor could I open until I felt like or put my tables on the next door chemist's terrace etc etc. 

I'd be fascinated to see how many opening licenses are displayed in a prominent position (or at all) I'd be equally fascinated to see how many food handling licenses are ........

For too long expats have come here with dodgy paperwork, dodgy cars, bought houses with dodgy paperwork, from dodgy expat agents on dodgy mortgages. Now the crisis is coming, stealth taxes are bound to come in. All I hear is expats moaning that they are now having to do what they should have done x years ago. When in Rome, Give unto Caesar etc.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

*bars in spain no thank you*



SteveHall said:


> Unlike AFAIK anybody else on this forum, I have actually owned a bar in Spain. The FAVOURITE subject of conversation among fellow bar-owners was how many rules and regulations there were. The REALITY/the TRUTH was that compared to my businesses in the UK there were far fewer and those that there were seemed pretty sensible. The bar next to me seemed intent in pushing the police to the limit as regards noise/terrace size etc. Was I surprised that she seemed to have many more brushes with the authority than I did? The REALITY/the TRUTH is that I could not open a pub in London with so little paperwork, nor could I open until I felt like or put my tables on the next door chemist's terrace etc etc.
> 
> I'd be fascinated to see how many opening licenses are displayed in a prominent position (or at all) I'd be equally fascinated to see how many food handling licenses are ........
> 
> For too long expats have come here with dodgy paperwork, dodgy cars, bought houses with dodgy paperwork, from dodgy expat agents on dodgy mortgages. Now the crisis is coming, stealth taxes are bound to come in. All I hear is expats moaning that they are now having to do what they should have done x years ago. When in Rome, Give unto Caesar etc.



granted i have not owned a bar in spain but no 3 owners of bars there now. and i have also owned 2 pubs and a nightclub in the uk.
sounds to me like the current situation in spain says it all. lets pick on the brits get rid of them more work for us then !
and thats the current feeling all over the net from bar owners in spain.
i did not publish the said article just found it on the net while doing some research for freinds in benidorm.
no smoke without fire springs to mind


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> seems a bit stupid when the people who have kept lining the pockets of the spain for so long (tourists) are having taken away from them what they want though. would it not make sense to lower the expensive licensing laws ? so that the small bars and clubs which keep alive places like benidorm etc alive. instead of dieing an obvious death if they persist in this.
> just a thought



I´m not sure I agree that "Blackpool abroad" is what the tourists want, I certtainly never did when I was a tourist. They may have done once apon a time, but nowadays Spain has had to become so cheap to attract British tourists that they end up getting lager louts and the like who do more harm than good. Retired ex-pats are going back to the UK in their droves apparently, so they´re hardly likely to keep the whole thing profitable, In my opinion whats needed is a bulldozer and to try to make spain an interesting place to be for all nationalities. Do you never walk around these costas and think how horrified you´d be if you´d just landed there for a two week holiday - I´d be on the next plane home!!!

There has been talk on and off for some years about opening a Disney Park, they chose Paris instead, which cos of the climate hasnt gone as well as they´d hoped. Maybe now is the time to do something like that, not only would it give the Spanish construction industry something to do, but would regenerate the tourist industry and the property market

Jo x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> granted i have not owned a bar in spain but no 3 owners of bars there now. and i have also owned 2 pubs and a nightclub in the uk.
> sounds to me like the current situation in spain says it all. lets pick on the brits get rid of them more work for us then !
> and thats the current feeling all over the net from bar owners in spain.
> i did not publish the said article just found it on the net while doing some research for freinds in benidorm.
> no smoke without fire springs to mind


Hi again, as the owner of a nightclub you must therefore be painfully aware of the paperwork involved, the licenses required, the references needed for your doormen, the visits to the Magistrates' Courts to apply for extensions. Then we can talk about checks re emergency exits, lighting on stairwells, copies of current food handling certificates. We could continue with the fact that your staff would have been on P.A.Y.E. and that about 700 different people could march in and demand to see copies of staff contracts, food handling licenses, fire-extinguisher certificates etc. The all your optics needed to be measured and not poured "up to the top of the third ice cube, Pedro". Woe betide you if your pipes had not been cleaned etc etc You were also only allowed to open certain hours and any small infraction there could have been fatal. 

I held the license at a rugby club once and we had a visit from the police at about half past midnight on New Year's Day!!!!!! Nobody was being served, nobody was even behind the bars but, yes, there were drinks on the table past drinking up time. Things were looking really tricky until they got an emergency call to a RTA and shot out. I would have thought that was the matter dead - no! Next day the police came round to tell us how "Lucky" I was and that they'd be keeping an eye on us in the New Year! 

I can assure you that I had little of that hassle to contend with in Spain!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Personally I doubt it's aimed at BRIT'S. 

Until last year - there was simply a surfeit of municipal revenues. Was too much work to collect piddly little licences. Now times are hard and I know first hand that overdue bills/taxes etc that were too much hassle to follow up - are being chased down fast and hard. 

Also the recent "corruption" scandals means that anybody who's suspected of having been favoured in the past - cant be seen to be favoured any more. Know one case where a business owner has been investigated because he once went hunting with the mayor. Was the opposition leader who initiated the check - he has a rival business. As it turns out - the guy was clean.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> There has been talk on and off for some years about opening a Disney Park, they chose Paris instead, which cos of the climate hasnt gone as well as they´d hoped. Maybe now is the time to do something like that, not only would it give the Spanish construction industry something to do, but would regenerate the tourist industry and the property market
> 
> Jo x


The paperwork was signed two weeks ago in Zaragoza. It's a new city called Gran Scala and will be the biggest theme park area in Europe. In fact 6 theme parks, 20+ casinons, 70+ hotels and 80,000 people in the Villa Nueva. Should open in 2012. A friend of mine is CEO if you want tickets for the Big Dipper!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> The paperwork was signed two weeks ago in Zaragoza. It's a new city called Gran Scala and will be the biggest theme park area in Europe. In fact 6 theme parks, 20+ casinons, 70+ hotels and 80,000 people in the Villa Nueva. Should open in 2012. A friend of mine is CEO if you want tickets for the Big Dipper!!


Are they putting it in Zaragoza?? 

Jo


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Personally I doubt it's aimed at BRIT'S.
> 
> Until last year - there was simply a surfeit of municipal revenues. Was too much work to collect piddly little licences. Now times are hard and I know first hand that overdue bills/taxes etc that were too much hassle to follow up - are being chased down fast and hard.


Conversation I was having with a Spaniard this morning - I was explaining the concept of stealth taxes. (impuestos oscuros ...according to him!) We are all going to be hit by them - Spanish nationals and immigrants.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

No it's in area called Los Monegros (east of Zaragoza) In the middle of nowhere but not too far from the Bareclona motorway. It is expected that there will even be up to 100 charter flights per day into the "local" (mmm) airport of Huesca. This is what the Spanish call "el macrocomplejo".


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## DROOBY (Aug 5, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> The paperwork was signed two weeks ago in Zaragoza. It's a new city called Gran Scala and will be the biggest theme park area in Europe. In fact 6 theme parks, 20+ casinons, 70+ hotels and 80,000 people in the Villa Nueva. Should open in 2012. A friend of mine is CEO if you want tickets for the Big Dipper!!


Alrighty i've got two kids that would appreciate a ride on the Big Dipper if any tickets going!!
Though strictly speaking i would have to go on first!! Just to make sure its safe of course


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

DROOBY said:


> Alrighty i've got two kids that would appreciate a ride on the Big Dipper if any tickets going!!
> Though strictly speaking i would have to go on first!! Just to make sure its safe of course



You would be most welcome! Please remind me in three years time!! 

If you can organise an invite for Ana Obregón or Natalia Verbeke I am sure we could have a great weekend! 

XTreme, for the avoidance of any doubt, donkeys are not allowed!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> No it's in area called Los Monegros (east of Zaragoza) In the middle of nowhere but not too far from the Bareclona motorway.


And BITTERLY cold in Winter!


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

jkchawner said:


> granted i have not owned a bar in spain but no 3 owners of bars there now. and i have also owned 2 pubs and a nightclub in the uk.
> sounds to me like the current situation in spain says it all. lets pick on the brits get rid of them more work for us then !
> and thats the current feeling all over the net from bar owners in spain.
> i did not publish the said article just found it on the net while doing some research for freinds in benidorm.
> no smoke without fire springs to mind


I bet you paid your staff though.
You here stories all the time about bars and clubs taking on staff and not paying them. 
Licence them ALL and if the dead wood falls by the way side so be it.

I lived in Blackpool for a few years, give me Spain any time.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> sounds to me like the current situation in spain says it all. lets pick on the brits get rid of them more work for us then !



Thats a terribly British remark! 

However, I dont think thats the case, although you cant blame them if it was. I think the Spanish are just cleaning up their act. 

Jo xx


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

[QUOTE There has been talk on and off for some years about opening a Disney Park, they chose Paris instead, which cos of the climate hasnt gone as well as they´d hoped. Maybe now is the time to do something like that, not only would it give the Spanish construction industry something to do, but would regenerate the tourist industry and the property market

Jo x[/QUOTE]

I have never understood why they went for Paris in the first place. Spain was always the obvious location if you ask me. Not to sure about the location of the preposed one Steve was talking about either. Zaragoza can be very cold and wet and Barcelona is only an hour away from PortAventura. They should look at taking it further south.

I don't know if I picked you up wrong Jo but believe me there are many bars out there that are taking on staff and then not paying them come pay day


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DH1875 said:


> I don't know if I picked you up wrong Jo but believe me there are many bars out there that are taking on staff and then not paying them come pay day



You picked me up wrong LOL!!!! I believe you, sadly, I know what its like out there

Jo xx


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> You picked me up wrong LOL!!!! I believe you, sadly, I know what its like out there
> 
> Jo xx


Sorry Jo, I've just realized what an idiot I am


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DH1875 said:


> Sorry Jo, I've just realized what an idiot I am


You´re male, its expected of you LOL 

Jo xx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

YOU'RE FEMALE and...... your inbox is full LOL 

You got email 

S


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> in love with spain like i am ?
> want to move there as i do ?
> maybe this will make you think again
> 
> Costa News - Killing the golden geese


Well thank god for that, not as daft as some folk take them for, these Spanish.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Dumbass Brit bars getting closed? Dumbass Brits going back.....and complaining of racism? And the end of bingo as we know it?
Not even Andy Warhol could have come up with a scenario as surreal as that!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Dumbass Brit bars getting closed? Dumbass Brits going back.....and complaining of racism? And the end of bingo as we know it?
> Not even Andy Warhol could have come up with a scenario as surreal as that!



Immigrants arent treated like that in the UK now are they 

Jo xxx


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