# How to answer past Salary question as an Expat?



## Rob11 (Mar 12, 2016)

I'm in the process of getting a Green Card here in the US (luckily my spouse is a citizen) and will be looking for work in the coming few months.

Sometimes when applying for a role (more common here in the US than in Australia, where I have previously worked) they will ask you to provide your previous salary. How do you go about answering this as an expat, when you are in an entirely different market/environment than home?

I intend to look for work in the technology industry here in California, which is famously overpaid - the market average for the roles I am looking at can be 50% more than my salary would have been in Australia for the same role and responsibilities. I obviously don't want to set myself up to be underpaid, but I don't want to lie about what I was paid in Australia for a similar role that I know is the market average here in the US.

Does anyone have experience moving between very different professional markets, with very different salary expectations, and how to tactfully answer that question?

Thank you for your help!


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

I would do some research on what the average salary in your new neighbourhood is for the kind of job you are looking for, and use that number.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

EVHB said:


> I would do some research on what the average salary in your new neighbourhood is for the kind of job you are looking for, and use that number.


I wouldn't. That would be lying, and that would be dumb in multiple ways.

Tell the truth or decline to answer. The truth is best expressed in Australian dollars (meaning, prospective employers will automatically understand it was in a different labor market) and in total gross compensation, inclusive of (for example) any employer-provided superannuation contributions, unless indicated otherwise on the form.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

If your replies are not given in person, but on paper, it's possible that you are not selected for an interview is the wage is not in line with what they expect. You can't select the currency!

If the answer is given in person, it's a different situation as, indeed, you can explain that this was in a different country.
I have clients who fill out the 'wage earned' with what their last wage was (often in Egypt or Dubai). I really don't care how much that was, as it's not relevant for here and now in a different country. But I am a human being, not software that is programmed to narrow down the 300 applicants to only 50 who's resume I have to read in order to find a great fit. Someone stating their earnings are $250,000 and I know our employers will pay $125,000 to 150,000 will often be weeded out by the software!


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## Rob11 (Mar 12, 2016)

EVHB said:


> If your replies are not given in person, but on paper, it's possible that you are not selected for an interview is the wage is not in line with what they expect. You can't select the currency!
> 
> If the answer is given in person, it's a different situation as, indeed, you can explain that this was in a different country.
> I have clients who fill out the 'wage earned' with what their last wage was (often in Egypt or Dubai). I really don't care how much that was, as it's not relevant for here and now in a different country. But I am a human being, not software that is programmed to narrow down the 300 applicants to only 50 who's resume I have to read in order to find a great fit. Someone stating their earnings are $250,000 and I know our employers will pay $125,000 to 150,000 will often be weeded out by the software!


And this is what I'm concerned about - I was paid a competitive salary, and would very much like a competitive salary here, but the two aren't relative. 

In person I'm less concerned (much easier to decline to answer, ask what the potential salary they're looking for would be or explain that it isn't relevant to the new context etc., all viable options) But for a form/automated system, I'm not sure how to navigate that.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

EVHB said:


> If your replies are not given in person, but on paper, it's possible that you are not selected for an interview is the wage is not in line with what they expect.


Possible, but you're at least wasting your own time if (highly likely when) you are selected for an interview and your prospective employer discovers and even asks you about your lie. Moreover, if by some miracle you're hired, the employer has cause to fire you for misrepresentation (cause). Even a union contract (rare) can't save you. And if there's any employment dispute (common) you're screwed. No court and very few juries will save you if you lied on your application.

Dumb move, truly. Decline to answer or tell the truth. Those are your two choices in your (the applicant's) self interest, never mind anybody else's.

Rob11, you're assuming that your prospective employer is stupid and doesn't understand that salaries in Darwin might be different than salaries in San Francisco. Why do you assume your employer is stupid? Do you want to work for a stupid employer? Salaries are different between San Francisco and Minneapolis! Employers understand this concept.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Here are another couple problems:

1. It takes about 60 seconds for a prospective employer to look up prevailing wage rates, even overseas. The employer can then require you to submit payroll slips verifying your previous compensation as a condition of employment. Whereupon, you're screwed.

2. Many employers don't do their own hiring but rely on an employment agency. If (when) you're caught lying, that agency blacklists you. You're screwed not only for that employer but every other that that agency handles. And perhaps others. (I don't know of a legal barrier to exchanging such information.)

WTF are you (not) thinking? Why do you think they ask that question? Typically it's to figure out whether you're stupid enough to lie.


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## Rob11 (Mar 12, 2016)

BBCWatcher said:


> Rob11, you're assuming that your prospective employer is stupid and doesn't understand that salaries in Darwin might be different than salaries in San Francisco. Why do you assume your employer is stupid? Do you want to work for a stupid employer? Salaries are different between San Francisco and Minneapolis! Employers understand this concept.


Thanks BBCWatcher - I'm not really assuming my potential employer is stupid, rather that they're a busy person and don't have the time or the will to go and google prevailing salaries in other countries (it's not hard, but it's more than just plugging it into Google and seeing what comes out).

The issue isn't what the employer thinks, it's how do I answer the question? Consensus suggests decline if at all possible, and if not then tell the truth (which I would always, always do because I agree with you, it will only ever bite you in the backside).

Finally, you mentioned in your next post the employer requiring me to submit payroll slips from a previous employer - how on earth is that even legal? What business is it of my new employer what my previous employer paid me beyond setting a salary that works for both of us? How can an employer require me to submit past payslips? (Notwithstanding I would never work for a company that did something like that)


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm not aware of any law that prevents a U.S. employer from making that request. But by that point your prospective employer would know the truth anyway. It'd be a "gotcha" request. You've made an incredible claim, and the employer would know it.

By the way, if prospective employers are using reported previous salaries to screen for interview candidates, why wouldn't they be at least as disinterested if the reported salary is "too high"?

As another point, if the prospective employer is a government typically lying to a government is a criminal act.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

One other consideration: the vast majority of employers don't usually bother to check references (or anything else) on their job candidates. So I've heard of people who simply "boost" their prior salary figures and play the odds they won't be checked out. (I don't personally subscribe to that approach, but it's out there.)

But if your CV or application has your job history, it should be obvious that your last salary was NOT US based. (In fact, even if it were, there are few parts of the US that pay the mega-salaries they do in Silicon Valley).

I'd be inclined to simply tell the truth and see if and when the matter arises in the interview. That's where you can offer a bit more explanation or do some negotiation. Just remember, the purpose of the initial application is to get the interview. It's at the interview that you go for the job.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

The small print on every application has something along the line of '... the truth'. Knowingly falsifying information aka lying can tip the scale. Industry pay is generally known by HR/recruiting. 
Basic reference checks often get handled through an agency. Dates of employment and rehire eligibility.HR/recruiting step in if there are questions or unusual situations. References can be very chatty. 
Not everyone in Silly Valley is overpaid


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

People, I do get your replies. But it appears to me that you don't work on the recruiter site of the story...



> Here are the rules of the game:
> · The employer uses a field in the Applicant Tracking System or a question on the phone screen asking about "desired salary."
> · If you answer wrong, you will not called for further interviews.
> · If you answer correct, you may continue and ultimately end with a job offer.


https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-answ...s-it-mean-if-a-manager-asks-you-that-question

Applicant Tracking Systems are a pest. But they are used. So you better learn how to apply for job postings where they can use the ATS, if you want to end up with an interview.
'Translating' Australians earnings to a comparable US earning is not lying. Certainly not if you stay honest and can build your case with examples during the interview. You can find data on average earnings for specific jobs in a specific region in Australia. Bring those with you, together with proof of what you were earning (if you get an interview).
And please, target your resume and do some more reading on ATS, so you can use that knowledge to your benefit.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

EVHB said:


> People, I do get your replies. But it appears to me that you don't work on the recruiter site of the story...
> 
> 
> https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-answ...s-it-mean-if-a-manager-asks-you-that-question
> ...


I am evil enough to ask for proof if something does not look right. It is pretty simple - you want the job you have to get past me for interviews with hiring managers and subject matter specialists for tech/medical interviews. I had some AUS attorneys bump their com to meet EU/UAE. ))

Leave comp off the application, let them do the talk.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just remember, the purpose of the initial application is to get the interview. It's at the interview that you go for the job.


Words that every job applicant needs to understand.



twostep said:


> The small print on every application has something along the line of '... the truth'. Knowingly falsifying information aka lying can tip the scale.


I agree - but I've never seen a job application with 'small print'. It's a long time since I've applied for a job, but I just had a look at four jobs of the type that I would apply for were I not self-employed. Not one of them had any 'small print' - just words such as 'send your résumé and cover letter to ...', or 'and photograph' for those in Europe.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bellthorpe said:


> Words that every job applicant needs to understand.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree - but I've never seen a job application with 'small print'. It's a long time since I've applied for a job, but I just had a look at four jobs of the type that I would apply for were I not self-employed. Not one of them had any 'small print' - just words such as 'send your résumé and cover letter to ...', or 'and photograph' for those in Europe.


Cover letters are beasts of the past. You did not go through the app.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

OK, I just looked quickly at another half dozen appropriate jobs. None of them used an 'app'. They all asked for résumé and cover letter, sent to an email address. You might not request them, but I don't conclude that they're a 'beast of the past'.

Further, when doing my own pre-qualification of positions I would demur on those that just used key-word seeking applications.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

1) If you have to fill out an online form for your application, the question about wages can be mandatory. You can't just leave it blank.

2) No job posting will announce that the initial screening of your application will not be done by a human being, but through software that is programmes to do so. Only those applications that are a close enough fit (hiring company will determine what that exactly means, sometimes it has to be a 97% match), will be spit out at the end so a human can have a closer look.
In this day and age, where for most job postings there isn't a lack of candidates, employers can afford to use this 'technique'.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

So let's suppose hypothetically you're going to lie. How do you know what lie to tell? The presumption here was to lie above actual. Oh really? How do you know the screener isn't going to chuck your application in the trash because you're too expensive?

I really don't get it. You're screwed if (when) the lie is ever discovered, you don't even know which lie will "work," and any lie big enough to matter increases the probability of being screwed. Where's the logic in any of this?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It's all part of the game. Even in the days before machine-vetted job applications there was the issue of "how much" to exaggerate or play down various elements of the truth, and how to respond to the request "please include complete salary history" or references. Some sources advised never to include either in an initial application - but rather to indicate that they would be provided "on request."

If the employer isn't interested in your background, the lack of a salary history or list of references is a convenient excuse why you didn't make the first cut. If your background is precisely what they are looking for, the technical lack of something like a salary history or references won't stop them from contacting you.

Job hunting is a two-way street. You have to evaluate the company and the job (and eventually the offer) as carefully as they have to evaluate you. Hard to remember in these days of tough employment conditions, but do you really want to be stuck in a crappy job?
Cheers,
Bev


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

BBCWatcher said:


> The presumption here was to lie above actual.


Not my suggestion. Do your labor market research in the home country: what are the average earning for someone with your degree and expertise for the region you were living? Was your wage x% higher/lower?
Now, do the same labor market research for the new place you are living, and add/distract x% to that number (based on your Australian situation).
No lies, just a 'translating' it to American situation. And you can take that research with you to the job interview, in case you get any questions. It shows you did your due diligence.


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