# Border wall ordered



## Pantheist

It's official -- Trump has commanded the nonsensical wall to be built. I can't imagine anything more odious to Mexicans.

I wonder how experienced expats think this could change to attitude of Mexicans toward U.S. citizens that want to relocate.


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## Pantheist

Sorry about the typos! I need to double-check, obviously.


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## Anonimo

More political posts! Why don't the moderators put a stop to these?


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## sparks

Link please


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## Gatos

Pantheist said:


> It's official -- Trump has commanded the nonsensical wall to be built. I can't imagine anything more odious to Mexicans.
> 
> I wonder how experienced expats think this could change to attitude of Mexicans toward U.S. citizens that want to relocate.


Probably depends on the quality of the people you call friends. We don't live anywhere near any border - and most likely will never return to the US in the future. No family there and too much to see/do here in Mexico. We lived an upper middle class life in the US and we live an upper middle class life here in Mexico. We have friends who are 1%'ers in Mexico and we have blue collar friends. Trump and the wall never come up to be honest. People worry about the value of the peso and where they should keep their holdings. Putting my own personal opinion aside (as best I can) I think the US has dropped a notch in terms of respectability recently.

Just yesterday we visited SRE to introduce ourselves and let them know we can't wait for the day we can nationalize. They could not have been more friendly. 

Finally - isn't it this Friday that Trump gets together with Pena Nieto ? Interesting that the wall 'construction' starts today...

Edit : Now to be fair - the gardener asks about Trump and the Pemex worker asks about Trump - but it kind of ends there


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## Pantheist

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-se...ts-targeting-those-u-130712340--business.html


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## Pantheist

Didn't mean to step on your toes, Anonimo. I assume the mods will move or delete if they judge it to be inappropriate. My interest is in Mexican attitudes toward this development, and whether or not new retirees will be less welcome than before.


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## TundraGreen

Anonimo said:


> More political posts! Why don't the moderators put a stop to these?


Moderator note:
There is no prohibition on political posts on this forum. It was actually discussed by the moderators a few months ago. This forum allows political posts, but prohibits personal attacks. So as long as people post about the issues and refrain from attacking their opponents, there is no problem.


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## Anonimo

TundraGreen said:


> Moderator note:
> There is no prohibition on political posts on this forum. It was actually discussed by the moderators a few months ago. This forum allows political posts, but prohibits personal attacks. So as long as people post about the issues and refrain from attacking their opponents, there is no problem.


Thanks for the clarification, TG. So, let 'er rip!


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## Bobbyb

Mexicans are very concerned. Did you see President Fox drop the F bomb again?. Word is that EPN is going to cancel his visit to the USA. He is under tremendous pressure to not be a wimp! I don't think individual Mexicans would be rude to x pats because of Trump. But I would bet the Government of Mexico will not be overly friendly. Trump could turn Mexico into an economic wasteland. I would not be buying Mexican real estate right now.


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## DiverSailor123

I honestly haven't been in communication with old friends on the Island this past couple week's, but in the past Mexicans and Canadians a like, have expressed numerous concerns about Obama..... GW.... Bill Clinton.. I am sure Trump is making them CRAZY! Last summer several were quick to remind me that Trump came down several years ago, trumpettes blaring trying to put together a deal on Cozumel where.... Mexicans and whomever would pay to build this HUGE Lavish One Of A Kind Resort and The Trumpster would put his name on it and they would ALL be partners In The Deal.... :blah: Those Mexicans sent Trump home empty handed..


Bobbyb said:


> Mexicans are very concerned. Did you see President Fox drop the F bomb again?. Word is that EPN is going to cancel his visit to the USA. He is under tremendous pressure to not be a wimp! I don't think individual Mexicans would be rude to x pats because of Trump. But I would bet the Government of Mexico will not be overly friendly. Trump could turn Mexico into an economic wasteland. I would not be buying Mexican real estate right now.


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## AlanMexicali

Bobbyb said:


> Mexicans are very concerned. Did you see President Fox drop the F bomb again?. Word is that EPN is going to cancel his visit to the USA. He is under tremendous pressure to not be a wimp! I don't think individual Mexicans would be rude to x pats because of Trump. But I would bet the Government of Mexico will not be overly friendly. Trump could turn Mexico into an economic wasteland. I would not be buying Mexican real estate right now.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/25/mexico-enrique-pena-nieto-trump-border-wall

" Mexico's president 'will not pay for any wall' – but may still visit Trump 

Enrique Peña Nieto repeats his refusal to fund border wall but leaves open the question of contentious 31 January trip to meet new US president 


Enrique Peña Nieto reiterated that Mexico would not put a single peso towards the new US president’s signature project. In a televised address he said: “I regret and reject the decision of the US to build the wall.”

But Peña Nieto did not cancel a trip to Washington – a move many in Mexico had demanded after Trump signed an executive order to start plans for fencing off the frontier."

Thursday 26 January 2017 03.44 GMT


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## DiverSailor123

Why Would Mexicans Really Care if a wall was built , as long as they don't end up paying for it.. Is this anger in fact, an admission that life is so bad in Mexico for so many , that somewhere between 10 million and 40 million have left Mexico for a better life in the USA, and that another group , at least as large as the first group , wishes it was easier to leave?


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## AlanMexicali

Trump announced today at 8 AM that because EPN announced Mexico will not pay any part of Trump´s Wall that EPN should not come to the January 31st. meeting with him states this mornings TV news in Mexico. LOL 

Trump is possibly, so far, the worst President the US has ever seen. It is as if he doesn´t have a clue how economics and diplomacy actually work in the best interest of the US.

Using executive orders might be his trademark in the next 4 years but budgets for these still have to pass the Senate and House, I think. They do have to pass the Constitutional Laws by the Federal Supreme Court scrutiny.


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## Isla Verde

Gatos said:


> Probably depends on the quality of the people you call friends. We don't live anywhere near any border - and most likely will never return to the US in the future. No family there and too much to see/do here in Mexico. We lived an upper middle class life in the US and we live an upper middle class life here in Mexico. We have friends who are 1%'ers in Mexico and we have blue collar friends. Trump and the wall never come up to be honest. . . .
> 
> Edit : Now to be fair - the gardener asks about Trump and the Pemex worker asks about Trump - but it kind of ends there


You and I travel in different circles of Mexican friends, that's for sure, Gatos. My friends here are mostly from the middle and lower-middle class, as these societal divisions are regarded in Mexico. All of them have brought up Trump and their disdain and even fear of him to me without any prompting. They include a neighbor lady in her seventies who lives down the street in a very nice house and the pleasant woman who helps me keep my apartment clean.


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## DiverSailor123

The Reality is .. If your friends are concerned about the sinking value of the MNP they are worried sh--less about Trump..


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## DiverSailor123

As of 45 minutes ago There will be no meeting between The President of Mexico and the imbecile representing the USA as President..


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## RVGRINGO

Good for EPN. He stood up DJT.
It is said that DJT does not read books. No wonder he has no clue about history, etc. Maybe he cannot read at all. He does ramble on the podium & teleprompters are not his friend.


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## Me Linda

Hi everyone new here! Moving to Chapala In may everything set up and ready to go! I am following this closely here . The scariest thing I am reading in major news sources is trump has stated he will tax or stop all remittances from Mexicans and Americans to Mexico . I am concerned if that could effect social security or ATM withdrawals?


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## DiverSailor123

At This point No One Knows What Will Happen.. Drumph likes to have pissing matches and always declares himself the winner.. I don't think that will play well with Mexico.. Is taxing money leaving the USA legal? Not that I read.. Can drumph treat Mexico so poorly that some Mexicans will take it out on Expats ? Very possibly. Will the Mexican Government have issues with you? Maybe on a local level. If there is a major economic turn down in Mexico will Mexicans take it out on Millionaire Gringos?( Aren't All Gringos Stinking Rich?) I would hope this all blows over and you can just continue celebrating what a great deal you got on the purchase of your home.. The Peso is down The Looney is Down the Euro is down in fact the only strong currency in Mexico right now ( in any volume) is the USD so you should have paid rock bottom price for you home.. Kick Back Enjoy Keep Pouring Margaritas and keep your fingers crossed, there really isn't much else you can do now anyways.. op2: 





Me Linda said:


> Hi everyone new here! Moving to Chapala In may everything set up and ready to go! I am following this closely here . The scariest thing I am reading in major news sources is trump has stated he will tax or stop all remittances from Mexicans and Americans to Mexico . I am concerned if that could effect social security or ATM withdrawals?


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## Gatos

We bought the house 3 years ago at 13.64 and it hurts a little at this point - but we really like the house and at the time we got a good price for it anyway.

I'm probably one of the only people on this forum who actually sees value in having a stash of pesos (which are earning +6.0% interest at this point). They are here - we can live on them for a long time. We also picked up some silver coins which are up over 25% over the last year - I wish the price would come down so we could buy some more.

I see Trump as a vehicle to push through change. He is a puppet. The people to worry about are the people who are pulling his strings.

I've got a rather long list of things I would suggest to Pena Nieto given the chance.


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## joaquinx

The big problem will be getting enough undocumented workers to build the wall. If they come, it won't be for minimum wage.


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## DiverSailor123

Newsflash... Drumph says 20% Tariff on Goods imported from Mexico.. Really that means US Residents will now pay 20% more for whatever we buy that comes from Mexico.. that is NOT Making Mexico Pay for anything!

Risking my money in a Mexican Bank? Pretty Volatile place to keep anything.. 

Bud you need to check the silver market I see nothing showing a 25% gain this past year or any recent year ... Silver was today $16.79 ozt I see no where , where you could have bought at $12.59 this past year .. http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/silver/5-year/
whats it like physically moving say $10,000.00 work of coins around? who would buy them back? 

Changing USD for MNP and putting them in banks is a losing proposition.. XE: USD / MXN Currency Chart. US Dollar to Mexican Peso Rates



Gatos said:


> We bought the house 3 years ago at 13.64 and it hurts a little at this point - but we really like the house and at the time we got a good price for it anyway.
> 
> I'm probably one of the only people on this forum who actually sees value in having a stash of pesos (which are earning +6.0% interest at this point). They are here - we can live on them for a long time. We also picked up some silver coins which are up over 25% over the last year - I wish the price would come down so we could buy some more.
> 
> I see Trump as a vehicle to push through change. He is a puppet. The people to worry about are the people who are pulling his strings.
> 
> I've got a rather long list of things I would suggest to Pena Nieto given the chance.


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## Gatos

I really try not to pay too much attention to Trump (and his people's) rhetoric - but I do believe that in the end he will declare victory if he gets Mexico to contribute some of the raw materials for his wall. Of course - it would be a better built wall and would last a lot longer if Mexicans were to build it  

I don't know how viable a passage is from Guatemala <-> Chiapas is these days. I thought I read that Mexico was putting some effort into making that a more difficult crossing. 

There is just so much that isn't told. How much does ONE undeserved H1B visa cost the US workforce ?


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## Deplorable me

Some of you people……. Ex Patriots? 
Enjoying your move? Enjoying your slave labor? Super cheap huh?
I hope the Peso drops to Negative 30 – You can be assured that will help our cause forcing your third world country to comply and can’t come soon enough us.
You have no respect for our president, or my country it’s not yours anymore .. be assured we have zero respect for you.
For those of us living in the SW UNITED STATES we can’t have a wall soon enough, I don’t expect you to understand the problems those of us who are still patriots face. 
Anything that comes to Mexico because of this they asked for, they refuse to stop illegal crossings and in fact have business helping them cross, Mexico looks the other way as drug cartels send their crap over the border, corruption is rampant. 60 billion in trade deficit is enough. Billions spent on health care for illegals.. crime, uninsured illegals causing vehicle accidents driving property prices down with their squalor, raping the desert as they cross. Literally murdering Americans after being sent back then coming back across…Surely you can’t be this uninformed and ignorant. Mexico depends on the billions of dollars being being sent back by illeglas, hopefully that is just stopped out right or at least taxed heavily.
Mexico is pretty much screwed, We woke up
Good luck ex patriots 
Ride that Peso down, maybe pay a decent wage to the poor woman who cooks and cleans for you while you are at it.. Not very Liberal of you to screw those people so much..
BTW for those of you living in Mexico with that lame not my president. YOU ARE RIGHT , Yours is in Mexico


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## DiverSailor123

The wall never worked and will never work its meant as a very costly symbolic gesture to appease the ignorant among us.. There are numerous laws making it illegal to hire illegals but you folks in Texas Arizona New Mexico and California giving them jobs that you refuse to pay decent wages for, are the reason Mexicans and others cross the border.. Put Just The Employers who hire illegals in Jail for 1 year per illegal and all the illegals will be gone in 6 months.. There will not be a Drug Cartel In Mexico when we start hanging drug addicts in the USA... Jail Time and Rehab isn't working , its obviously time to start hanging them.. If No One Wants Drugs.... Drug Cartels will start raising Grapes 


Deplorable me said:


> Some of you people……. Ex Patriots?
> Enjoying your move? Enjoying your slave labor? Super cheap huh?
> I hope the Peso drops to Negative 30 – You can be assured that will help our cause forcing your third world country to comply and can’t come soon enough us.
> You have no respect for our president, or my country it’s not yours anymore .. be assured we have zero respect for you.
> For those of us living in the SW UNITED STATES we can’t have a wall soon enough, I don’t expect you to understand the problems those of us who are still patriots face.
> Anything that comes to Mexico because of this they asked for, they refuse to stop illegal crossings and in fact have business helping them cross, Mexico looks the other way as drug cartels send their crap over the border, corruption is rampant. 60 billion in trade deficit is enough. Billions spent on health care for illegals.. crime, uninsured illegals causing vehicle accidents driving property prices down with their squalor, raping the desert as they cross. Literally murdering Americans after being sent back then coming back across…Surely you can’t be this uninformed and ignorant. Mexico depends on the billions of dollars being being sent back by illeglas, hopefully that is just stopped out right or at least taxed heavily.
> Mexico is pretty much screwed, We woke up
> Good luck ex patriots
> Ride that Peso down, maybe pay a decent wage to the poor woman who cooks and cleans for you while you are at it.. Not very Liberal of you to screw those people so much..
> BTW for those of you living in Mexico with that lame not my president. YOU ARE RIGHT , Yours is in Mexico


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## Deplorable me

*a puppet?*



Gatos said:


> We bought the house 3 years ago at 13.64 and it hurts a little at this point - but we really like the house and at the time we got a good price for it anyway.
> 
> I'm probably one of the only people on this forum who actually sees value in having a stash of pesos (which are earning +6.0% interest at this point). They are here - we can live on them for a long time. We also picked up some silver coins which are up over 25% over the last year - I wish the price would come down so we could buy some more.
> 
> I see Trump as a vehicle to push through change. He is a puppet. The people to worry about are the people who are pulling his strings.
> 
> I've got a rather long list of things I would suggest to Pena Nieto given the chance.



Really Trump is a puppet, because he was the Repubs first choice anbd they supported him, they even tell him what to tweet? because that is so wise to tweet.


ok.. wow,, I hope you actually give advice to pena nie lol wow wow wow


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## Gatos

DiverSailor123 said:


> Newsflash... Drumph says 20% Tariff on Goods imported from Mexico.. Really that means US Residents will now pay 20% more for whatever we buy that comes from Mexico.. that is NOT Making Mexico Pay for anything!
> 
> Risking my money in a Mexican Bank? Pretty Volatile place to keep anything..
> Bud you need to check the silver market I see nothing showing a 25% gain this past year or any recent year ... Silver was today $16.79 ozt I see no where , where you could have bought at $12.59 this past year .. 5 Year Silver Prices and Silver Price Charts - InvestmentMine
> 
> Changing USD for MNP and putting them in banks is a losing proposition.. XE: USD / MXN Currency Chart. US Dollar to Mexican Peso Rates


on 3/31/16 I paid 325 pesos for a 1 ounce silver libertad (100% silver). Today that same coin would cost me 424 pesos. i'll do the math for you if you want.

The bulk of our Mexican holdings - excluding the house - are held directly at the bank of Mexico. No intermediary. 

You can't impose capital controls on my money which I already have here. Sure I have to tell you how much I have - but it is here. I TRUELY worry about those expats having their SS monies sent directly to Mexico. (I am not in any way trying to instill fear in those people) - But what if that was in some way viewed as a remittance in the future ?

My guardian angel kept me from quitting my job in the 2007 (?) and purchasing real estate. My guardian angel kept me out of the '87 crash. Sure - we have never made a killing (other than two well paying jobs over 30+ years) -butwe never lost a dime in real estate - nor the stock market - and we never lost a night's sleep over it.


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## Deplorable me

*agree and disagree*



DiverSailor123 said:


> The wall never worked and will never work its meant as a very costly symbolic gesture to appease the ignorant among us.. There are numerous laws making it illegal to hire illegals but you folks in Texas Arizona New Mexico and California giving them jobs that you refuse to pay decent wages for, are the reason Mexicans and others cross the border.. Put Just The Employers who hire illegals in Jail for 1 year per illegal and all the illegals will be gone in 6 months.. There will not be a Drug Cartel In Mexico when we start hanging drug addicts in the USA... Jail Time and Rehab isn't working , its obviously time to start hanging them.. If No One Wants Drugs.... Drug Cartels will start raising Grapes


Totally agree with laws not being enforced that allowed illegals to work .. That needs to change. Heck give them 10 years in Jail for hiring illegal make it hurt it will stop.
You are correct sir

Drugs , not going away, same thing 10 years mandatory for meth heroin etc.
pot - make it legal.

The wall wasn't finished and it is symbolic being called a "wall" We can stop all crosser if we decide to do it. probably cheaper to put national guard bases on the border . whatever, there is a way .. if the border is more than 100 miles from the nearest paved rd or town . its already secure .. we know where they cross .. its not brain surgery. The wall is a state of mind its just stopping them, making it well known the cost exceed the benefits and its difficult..

Bottom line if Kids younger than 15 and women are even consider it is even an option to try ,,, it is way to easy


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## joaquinx

Under Carter there was a 10,000 USD fine for hiring undocumented workers. Reagan cancelled that. Perhaps we need to bring that fine back.


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## DiverSailor123

You are saying you would have paid, not you sold.. the market closed at $16.79 per oz troy why would you $3.21 ozt more than market? Come on take your coins, a whole wheel barrel full down to the coin dealer and see what he gives you ..... he will NOT give you market..


Gatos said:


> on 3/31/16 I paid 325 pesos for a 1 ounce silver libertad (100% silver). Today that same coin would cost me 424 pesos. i'll do the math for you if you want.
> 
> The bulk of our Mexican holdings - excluding the house - are held directly at the bank of Mexico. No intermediary.
> 
> You can't impose capital controls on my money which I already have here. Sure I have to tell you how much I have - but it is here. I TRUELY worry about those expats having their SS monies sent directly to Mexico. (I am not in any way trying to instill fear in those people) - But what if that was in some way viewed as a remittance in the future ?
> 
> My guardian angel kept me from quitting my job in the 2007 (?) and purchasing real estate. My guardian angel kept me out of the '87 crash. Sure - we have never made a killing (other than two well paying jobs over 30+ years) -butwe never lost a dime in real estate - nor the stock market - and we never lost a night's sleep over it.


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## Gatos

Let;s call a spade a spade (That is the the expression no ?)

Every year South Florida needs to harvest it's sugar crop. No human wants to do that work. Get down in the snake invested muck and wack away at cane. They have to wear body armour to keep their own limbs. These workers are brought in on special visas, provided housing and food etc and return to Jamaica at the end of the harvest, 

Tell me - how does that differ from the Mexican family that comes into California to harvest in season ?


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## Me Linda

I have relatives in the southwest married to Mexicans, I grew up in California which has the most immigrants in USA, it also by the way has the fourth largest economy in the world! I worked in social services for years in USA illegals are not eligible for benefits. . AmericanS have a huge drug problem how many die a day, Where is the hate coming from ? My grandparents came over on a boat with zero paperwork in 1919. People hate what they do not know. Sad sorry for the rant


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## Gatos

DiverSailor123 said:


> You are saying you would have paid, not you sold.. the market closed at $16.79 per oz troy why would you $3.21 ozt more than market? Come on take your coins, a whole wheel barrel full down to the coin dealer and see what he gives you ..... he will NOT give you market..


Banco Azteca - Qué es la compra/venta de Monedas de Plata

At the counter - no negotiation required.


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## TurtleToo

Me Linda said:


> I have relatives in the southwest married to Mexicans, I grew up in California which has the most immigrants in USA, it also by the way has the fourth largest economy in the world! I worked in social services for years in USA illegals are not eligible for benefits. . AmericanS have a huge drug problem how many die a day, Where is the hate coming from ? My grandparents came over on a boat with zero paperwork in 1919. People hate what they do not know. Sad sorry for the rant


Hello, Linda, welcome to the forum! :smile:

.


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## DiverSailor123

Simple. Guest Workers / Farm Workers Permits.. NOT Illegals.. They come they pick they leave.. We don't end up with 20 or 30 Million of them flooding markets .. any markets and driving down wages .. as for cane sugar and the sugar barons and their Government subsidized cane sugar? SCREW THEM we don't need that product or them and certainly NOT all the illegal Jamaican's and Bahamians that stay behind and become a drain on our social system.. being as we are calling spades spades and whatever.. Illegals are criminals and all to often turn to drugs and violent crime .. Look at our Jails and Prisons look again at our anchor babies.. if we eliminated prisoners and social service fraud committed by Illegals alone we could drastically reduce the National Debt and our yearly budget.. Put People in Jail who hire illegals of ANY KIND and of ANY NATIONALITY and our illegal problem is reduced by no less than 80% and then Stay On Top Of it!



Gatos said:


> Let;s call a spade a spade (That is the the expression no ?)
> 
> Every year South Florida needs to harvest it's sugar crop. No human wants to do that work. Get down in the snake invested muck and wack away at cane. They have to wear body armour to keep their own limbs. These workers are brought in on special visas, provided housing and food etc and return to Jamaica at the end of the harvest,
> 
> Tell me - how does that differ from the Mexican family that comes into California to harvest in season ?


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## Gatos

Me Linda said:


> I have relatives in the southwest married to Mexicans, I grew up in California which has the most immigrants in USA, it also by the way has the fourth largest economy in the world! I worked in social services for years in USA illegals are not eligible for benefits. . AmericanS have a huge drug problem how many die a day, Where is the hate coming from ? My grandparents came over on a boat with zero paperwork in 1919. People hate what they do not know. Sad sorry for the rant


You may not like this answer - but if I were to counter Trump with a Trump-like mentality - and I were Mexico - I would say something like - ya know we have way too may internal issues we need to address at the moment and from our perspective - the flow of drugs into the US is pretty far down on the list - perhaps you need ti address the real issue which is the demand for the product on your own streets. 

Please keep us informed how the construction of that wall affects that problem.

Gracias.


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## Me Linda

Thank you turtletoo! Ps I enjoy sarcasm lol


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## Me Linda

Sorry gatos when I said America has a drug problem I meant that literally. I saw that in social services everyday no wall will stop it ! Stop the prescription pills people will turn to heroin , stop that meth. This is not created by Mexico, if you stop all Mexican drugs someone or something else will move in .


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## Bobbyb

AlanMexicali : Nieto did indeed cancel his visit!!!


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## Bobbyb

Deplorable me: Are you aware that 50 % of the illegal immigrants arrive legally. Often by plane. They overstay their visas and just get lost in the crowds. So your Trump wall will do nothing. How can the USA be a world leader with a wall around the country/?What does that say about what was a great nation. Just watch and see how many of Trump's executive orders just disappear. He is already saying that the 20% tax was just one idea on paying for the wall. Just a bag of wind that never should have been elected. instead of being the leader of the Free world he could go down as the person that almost destroyed the free world.


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## Me Linda

Bobbyb said:


> Deplorable me: Are you aware that 50 % of the illegal immigrants arrive legally. Often by plane. They overstay their visas and just get lost in the crowds. So your Trump wall will do nothing. How can the USA be a world leader with a wall around the country/?What does that say about what was a great nation. Just watch and see how many of Trump's executive orders just disappear. He is already saying that the 20% tax was just one idea on paying for the wall. Just a bag of wind that never should have been elected. instead of being the leader of the Free world he could go down as the person that almost destroyed the free world.


. Don't know if I am responding to this right ? But I read your reply and I keep looking for the like button


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## DiverSailor123

Hi Linda ...... Green Hand giving thumbs up sign lower right corner.. I disagree with the 50% of illegals.. There are they say somewhere around 20 maybe 30 million latinos of all kinds and none of them came by plane... 



Me Linda said:


> . Don't know if I am responding to this right ? But I read your reply and I keep looking for the like button


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## TurtleToo

DiverSailor123 said:


> Hi Linda ...... Green Hand giving thumbs up sign lower right corner.. I disagree with the 50% of illegals.. There are they say somewhere around 20 maybe 30 million latinos of all kinds and none of them came by plane...


Best estimates for visa overstays are almost 500,000 per year. According to the federal government's own estimate, they account for approximately 40% of illegal immigration. (Just curious--why would you think "none of them came by plane?") The number is probably much higher, because the official count includes tourist visas, but not some of the other types, such as student visas. (if I remember correctly.) "Border jumpers" get all the attention, but the Department of Homeland Security considers visa overstayers the bigger terrorism threat. 

Nearly 500K foreigners overstayed visas in 2015

.


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## Stevesolar

TurtleToo said:


> Best estimates for visa overstays are almost 500,000 per year. According to the federal government's own estimate, they account for approximately 40% of illegal immigration. (Just curious--why would you think "none of them came by plane?") The number is probably much higher, because the official count includes tourist visas, but not some of the other types, such as student visas. (if I remember correctly.) "Border jumpers" get all the attention, but the Department of Homeland Security considers visa overstayers the bigger terrorism threat.
> 
> Nearly 500K foreigners overstayed visas in 2015
> 
> .


Hi,
The main difference between over stayers and "border jumpers" is that one type is documented - you know who they are and the other type could be anybody.
Homeland Security need to simply vet the visa applications more closely and put measures in place to reduce the chances of the people that come into the USA legitimately from overstaying or being bad guys.
Building a physical wall is only one small way that the USA can tighten its borders and increase protection from potential terrorists and people that wish it harm.
Cheers
Steve


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## bdesj

3000 KM is a long stretch to wall off and patrol. Though I can't say with certainty the job would be impossible, I am completely certain that having cooperation with the other side of that border makes security easier. On one hand I would like to see enough sense from CdMx to realize that Washington is not the United States, and for Mexico to continue helping out. On the other hand, I am so outraged by the absurd way that President Trump is handing the entire affair that part of me hopes Mexico starts issuing free bus tickets from Tapachula to Juarez out of spite. But come what may, the biggest thing I fear is the additional economic stresses that are being added to Mexico's already troubled situation. Does Washington really want to push her over the edge and have the equivalent of about a dozen Somalias on the other side of that big, beautiful (and very long) wall? Sometimes it look like that's the president's goal.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

DiverSailor123 said:


> Newsflash... Drumph says 20% Tariff on Goods imported from Mexico.. Really that means US Residents will now pay 20% more for whatever we buy that comes from Mexico.. that is NOT Making Mexico Pay for anything!
> 
> Risking my money in a Mexican Bank? Pretty Volatile place to keep anything..
> 
> Bud you need to check the silver market I see nothing showing a 25% gain this past year or any recent year ... Silver was today $16.79 ozt I see no where , where you could have bought at $12.59 this past year .. 5 Year Silver Prices and Silver Price Charts - InvestmentMine
> whats it like physically moving say $10,000.00 work of coins around? who would buy them back?
> 
> Changing USD for MNP and putting them in banks is a losing proposition.. XE: USD / MXN Currency Chart. US Dollar to Mexican Peso Rates


Economic behavior doesn't work that way. If Trump puts such a tariff on a wide range of Mexican goods, that would make those products more expensive than products from other countries, and Americans would buy from those other countries, hurting Mexico industries.

If so, the main purpose would be pressure on Mexican industry which sends 85% of its exports to the U.S., not to pay for the wall, until I guess Trump gets Mexico to yell Uncle and pays for the wall. But the US administration backtracked on that 20% tariff, suggesting it would apply to all countries that have trade surpluses with US.

I have no idea but probably a tariff would' be put on fresh food as Mexican produce is so important. 

I hope an all out economic war can be averted with a compromise I know all you expats one Mexico, as I do,, but there's no way that Mexico can win an economic war with the U.S. Plenty of countries would re-jiggerr their economies to supply what Mexico does, but Mexico would have extreme difficulty to finding enough other export markets to make up what it lost in America.

But I think cooler heads will prevail and both presidents are playing to their home bases now. Things will cool off and something will be worked out that saves face for both countries, I hope.


----------



## Meritorious-MasoMenos

bdesj said:


> 3000 KM is a long stretch to wall off and patrol. Though I can't say with certainty the job would be impossible, I am completely certain that having cooperation with the other side of that border makes security easier. On one hand I would like to see enough sense from CdMx to realize that Washington is not the United States, and for Mexico to continue helping out. On the other hand, I am so outraged by the absurd way that President Trump is handing the entire affair that part of me hopes Mexico starts issuing free bus tickets from Tapachula to Juarez out of spite. But come what may, the biggest thing I fear is the additional economic stresses that are being added to Mexico's already troubled situation. Does Washington really want to push her over the edge and have the equivalent of about a dozen Somalias on the other side of that big, beautiful (and very long) wall? Sometimes it look like that's the president's goal.


 against Mexico.
I think you hit it right. Trump knows, or his advisors will tell him, he can't go all out against Mexico for precisely reasons you mentioned.

But executive orders scheduled for Friday is ban on all Syrian refugees for undetermined period and ALL political refugees for 120 days. That was a draft only most US papers reported yesterday.

Under current law, the US president has sole control of whether to let in 100,000 or zero of political asylum seekers. Normal immigration controlled by federal law and Trump can't change that without Congress.

I'm suddenly so interested as a former employee asked me to return to Mexico to do freelance articles on aspects of the Trump effect. I'd love that, but am alas stuck in Thailand for six months undergoing teeth implants. Life is crazy.


----------



## praveen555

Hinting at another major foreign policy shift, Trump has proposed to impose 20% tax on imports from all the countries America has a trade deficit with. The proceeds thereof, the White House said, will finance the construction of a wall on the Mexican border, which was Trump campaign's signature election promise.

Deeming the 20% import tax proposal as one that is practiced by 160 countries, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer called the US trade policy of taxing exports and letting imports move freely ridiculous. He also estimated that the new tax is likely to bring in $10 billion annually, which can be utilised to build the wall.

Source: (thedollarbusiness.com/news/trumps-pet-mexican-wall-could-be-financed-by-import-tax/49267)


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## Gatos

I hear all this talk about how Mexico isn't playing fair - The US needs to impose a 20% import tax on items from Mexico. So this morning I did a little research and came across this document :

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf

It is 52 pages long but the interesting stuff starts at page 18. Some of the things that caught my attention...
- Mexico's trade imbalance with the US was 58 billion. But its trading imbalance with EU was 151 Billion - 59 Billion with Germany. 319 Billion with China. 62 billion with Japan.

Look at page 21 - what items were imported/exported. Sure they imported twice as much manufactured goods as they exported - but they also imported more petroleum products, fruits and vegetables, beverages.

The US imported 49 billion in "high tech products" from Mexico in 2016!

America has become a consumer nation - which is evidenced by the fact that in the area of 70% of US GDP is consumer spending.


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## Stevesolar

Hi,
What I can't get my head around is how imposing a 20% import tax on imported Mexican goods is getting Mexico to pay for the wall!
The importers in USA pay the tax and these extra costs are passed on to US consumers and businesses!
Cheers
Steve


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## Gatos

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> What I can't get my head around is how imposing a 20% import tax on imported Mexican goods is getting Mexico to pay for the wall!
> The importers in USA pay the tax and these extra costs are passed on to US consumers and businesses!
> Cheers
> Steve


I guess maybe the 20% import tax will increase the price of Tequilla, Avacados and Grain to the point where Americans will no longer purchase those products from Mexico - but - that will free up American financial resources to build the wall ? Maybe Trump could sell ad space on the wall


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## dwwhiteside

I know it can be great fun to have discussions such as these when any and everyone can state their own opinion as if it were fact. So, at the risk of spoiling everyone's fun, let me just put up a few ACTUAL facts as determined by research.

Fact 1, almost the entire border between California and Mexico already has a fence. Here is a link to a wikipedia article that explains:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico–United_States_barrier

Fact 2, California has one of the worst illegal drug usage problems in the U.S. Here is a Washington Post article that discusses this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...es-do-drugs-in-4-maps/?utm_term=.cb3c5e89947e

Fact 3, the largest population of illegal immigrants in the entire U.S., approximately 25% of all illegal immigrants in the U.S., live in California. Here is a website that has this information published:
Demographics of Immigrants in the United States Illegally - Illegal Immigration - ProCon.org

So, using just a tiny little bit of the logic I was taught in school, I can deduce a couple of things. First, I can deduce that building a wall on the border will not reduce illegal immigration nor will it reduce illegal drug usage.

Second, I can deduce that anyone who argues that such a wall WOULD, in fact, reduce illegal immigration or illegal drug use is either ignorant of the facts or is purposely choosing to ignore them.

Trumps wall, even if it were to ever be built (still highly unlikely in my opinion) would only do one thing and that is it would piss off the U.S's. next door neighbor to the south, which also happens to be it's second most important trading partner. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me.


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## joaquinx

dwwhiteside said:


> Trumps wall, even if it were to ever be built (still highly unlikely in my opinion) would only do one thing and that is it would piss off the U.S's. next door neighbor to the south, which also happens to be it's second most important trading partner. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me.


Whether it will deter migration or drugs is immaterial. People who voted for him believe it is the answer to the "plague" of Latinos crossing the boarder. They believe it and they love to hear this from their Prince.


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## Gatos

joaquinx said:


> Whether it will deter migration or drugs is immaterial. People who voted for him believe it is the answer to the "plague" of Latinos crossing the boarder. They believe it and they love to hear this from their Prince.


Wasn't there a country somewhere in the last few years where they threw shoes at a politician at a podium. I don't think it was to inflict harm as much as make a statement. 

Does anyone know what a US citizen can get away with when it come to protesting a sitting president ? Certainly you can't make any bodily threats - but can you throw things at him like shoes or eggs - without spending the rest of your life in jail ?


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## DiverSailor123

Trump panders the Trailer Trash Crowd and those who think they can cheat and steal from others to make it to the top.. I think all but maybe 2 of us here understand The Wall Doesn't work ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
Want a wall to actually work? Look to the Berlin Wall.. Touch the wall and you might well DIE for it.. But Mexicans are NOT going to be shooting Mexicans and If We started acting like The East Germans all hell would break loose and I sure wouldn't want to visit Mexico let alone be living there and owning a home etc etc aka Jews In Germany 1940..


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## Me Linda

joaquinx said:


> dwwhiteside said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trumps wall, even if it were to ever be built (still highly unlikely in my opinion) would only do one thing and that is it would piss off the U.S's. next door neighbor to the south, which also happens to be it's second most important trading partner. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether it will deter migration or drugs is immaterial. People who voted for him believe it is the answer to the "plague" of Latinos crossing the boarder. They believe it and they love to hear this from their Prince.
Click to expand...

. I Am Sorry I can't help myself! I have to add 2 words to the end of your last sentence OF DARKNESS


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## joaquinx

Gatos said:


> Wasn't there a country somewhere in the last few years where they threw shoes at a politician at a podium. I don't think it was to inflict harm as much as make a statement.
> 
> Does anyone know what a US citizen can get away with when it come to protesting a sitting president ? Certainly you can't make any bodily threats - but can you throw things at him like shoes or eggs - without spending the rest of your life in jail ?


I do believe that striking an elected official at the federal level is a felony. Shoe or fist. I would not waste an good egg on that Prince.

An Irani tossed a shoe at George W. He ducked.


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## gringotim

What I don't understand is how many "Alternative facts" can come out of such a small mouth.:yuck:


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## Gatos

gringotim said:


> What I don't understand is how many "Alternative facts" can come out of such a small mouth.:yuck:


Now if they could come up with alternative taxes we would all be happy.


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## DiverSailor123

That was an Iraqi Journalist who tossed a shoe at GWB.. The shoe toss culturally, is quiet the insult... 
As to what can you say about a sitting President and get away with it? Hummmmm does that list include Narcissistic azzhat President ? I could see you going to jail for just repeating what Trump has said about Obama word for word but directing at the Orange Bully-Boy-in-mans-clothing.. and THEN..... there is the IRS ( aka Tricky Dick Nixon and Ronald Bedtime for Bonzo Reagan) 
YOU go first.... hahaahaahaha:cheer2: I'll cheer you on :cheer2: 




Gatos said:


> Wasn't there a country somewhere in the last few years where they threw shoes at a politician at a podium. I don't think it was to inflict harm as much as make a statement.
> 
> Does anyone know what a US citizen can get away with when it come to protesting a sitting president ? Certainly you can't make any bodily threats - but can you throw things at him like shoes or eggs - without spending the rest of your life in jail ?


----------



## joaquinx

Gatos said:


> Now if they could come up with alternative taxes we would all be happy.


He's got alternative taxes all right. Guess what? You're not included in them.


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## Me Linda

I should not do this but my psychology education makes me believe Trump is ADHD his inability to concentrate and follow a coherent subject in speeches, and also his denial of statements that he recently said ( he truly doesn't remember) is classic. He is also ( goes hand in hand ) dyslexic which is why he does not read books or daily intelligence reports. He is extremely insecure because of this , He appears narcissistic because of this to over compensation. He bullies anyone he perceives as weaker or smaller this makes him feel powerful. But of course everyone is weaker and smaller he is huge. Just my opinion.


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## Gatos

Me Linda said:


> I should not do this but my psychology education makes me believe Trump is ADHD his inability to concentrate and follow a coherent subject in speeches, and also his denial of statements that he recently said ( he truly doesn't remember) is classic. He is also ( goes hand in hand ) dyslexic which is why he does not read books or daily intelligence reports. He is extremely insecure because of this , He appears narcissistic because of this to over compensation. He bullies anyone he perceives as weaker or smaller this makes him feel powerful. But of course everyone is weaker and smaller he is huge. Just my opinion.


Or perhaps he is on drugs - I really thought that was the case with his slurred speech in his last debate with Hillary. He almost sounded like he had an allergy moment.

I worked for many years for a narcissist. For 10+ years we were 'golden-boys'. He was extremely wealthy (like 750 million or so in the bank). I was a well-treated grunt programmer. This guy would take pleasure in bringing grown men to tears in the middle of a meeting. He was the world's worst braggart. What he had was b*lls. He could play 'poker' with anyone - even presidents. 

At the time I put a lot of effort into understanding what was going on. Narcissism is too simple a label - there are many different flavors and the deeper you look the clearer things appear.

This guy - who for many years I really loved because he was possibly the most generous person I have ever known - ended up taking his own life. By far he was the most intelligent person I have ever known (and I worked in an area of a lot of smart people). He did not even have a high school degree.


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## sparks

Here's the wall


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## Me Linda

I am sorry for the loss of your friend gato ! Education has little to do with education. My daughter is dyslexic can't read and has a IQ of 130. But would you have wanted your dear friend to be president? We concentrated on keeping my daughters self esteem up thru out her life despite her disability. Trumps father was a tyrant from what I have read. Trump also speaks in 3rd person . Listen to his speach. He refers to himself as not I but DONALD TRUMP. Arrested development? Anyhooo just an observation opinion.


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## Gatos

sparks said:


> Here's the wall


That day may come - and not take four years.

But changing the subject for a moment - is there a river etc between the borders of Mexico/Guatemala or Mexico/Belize ? In other words - is the southern border of Mexico defensible (at a reasonable cost) ?


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## Isla Verde

Gatos said:


> But changing the subject for a moment - is there a river etc between the borders of Mexico/Guatemala or Mexico/Belize ? In other words - is the southern border of Mexico defensible (at a reasonable cost) ?


I believe that the Usumacinta River forms part of the border between Mexico and Guatemala.


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## sparks

There's some river that empties into Chetumal bay .... but don't know how big or long


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## Gatos

I'm hung up on the idea of Mexico protecting Mexico and that Isthmus of Tehuantepec. This morning I fired up Google Earth and stepped from the Port of Coatzacoalcos. I think today you might be able to canoe all the way to the Pacific side. I wouldn't want to build a wall up and down all the valleys in Chiapis. Just a barrier along a level stretch with maybe patrol boats. It is kind of a curvy route but the length of that Isthmus is a fraction of the distance from California to Alabama. Maybe Trump could help pay for that - if it keeps the riff-raff (?) to the South.

But - I'm sure I am out of my mind for suggesting such a thing.


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## Zorro2017

The construction of this wall has brought the relationship between Mexico and the United States to an all time low. Talks have been canceled so any future solutions look dim. I just hope that the collective anger of the Mexican people is aimed at Trump, not average Americans. 

Things are bad enough on the locals now with gas up 20% and the price of corn driving up food prices. If a 20% tax is levied profits will fall to an all time low on a people who are already struggling. Our friends here work in construction and work is really down due to to the cost of materials. 

But Trump will not back down on the wall and Nieto has called off the talks. This is not going to go well for Mexico.


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## AlanMexicali

Mexican TV news last night stated Peña and Trump had a 1 hour telephone call yesterday and both promised to not talk about the wall and Mexico paying/not paying for it in public anymore and talked about US and Mexican relations and possibly meeting in the future.


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## Gatos

I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the TV this morning - but there was Trump saying he has an hour long phone conversation (today ?) with Pena Nieto and it went very well. I believe it was decided that neither party will talk about the wall in public in the future.

I truly believe someone enlightened Trump that a 20% import tax is going to hurt more than just Mexicans. What I don't get is - why is he singling out Mexico ? I'd like to see all of the countries who have a trade surplus with the US get together (China,Germany,EU,Japan,...) and have a little pow-wow. Perhaps Russia isn't the only country that should have sanctions imposed.

Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-US - but I am anti the guy who is now in charge.

Edit : Sorry Alan - you type faster than me.


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## DebInFL

My concern is that Mexico will reciprocate by making it harder to immigrate, or to renew a visitor visa. Border officials will not be as lenient on Americanos moving South. This has happened at the worst time. I was seriously going to move to MX this year, but now I'm watching carefully to see how it affects American expats. I am afraid it won't be as safe as it is now, or as easy to get in and out.


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## Zorro2017

I forgot about the phone conversation, I did hear that. But from what I have seen of Trump he will not "lose face" by backing away from what he has said. With a 60 billion dollar trade deficit and another 23 billion being wired back to Mexico by people working here he has a lot of leverage and means to apply pressure. Just because they won't speak of it in public does not mean that anything has changed as far as their stance goes. Trump wants to be able to say that Mexico paid for the wall.

China dwarfs Mexico when it comes to a deficit.


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## Zorro2017

DebInFL said:


> My concern is that Mexico will reciprocate by making it harder to immigrate, or to renew a visitor visa. Border officials will not be as lenient on Americanos moving South. This has happened at the worst time. I was seriously going to move to MX this year, but now I'm watching carefully to see how it affects American expats. I am afraid it won't be as safe as it is now, or as easy to get in and out.


A very legitimate concern.


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## perropedorro

Zorro2017 said:


> The construction of this wall has brought the relationship between Mexico and the United States to an all time low. Talks have been canceled so any future solutions look dim. I just hope that the collective anger of the Mexican people is aimed at Trump, not average Americans.


 But how I hate having my opinion of Trump solicited by the most casual of contacts, like the guy filling my tank at Pemex or even some aggressive jerk on the street. They're sadly disappointed when i spout "As a guest in your country, I respect Article 33 of the Mexican Constitución that prohibits foreigners from discussing politics". They think I'm just being sarcastic, which is true. Among family and friends, they know my views, and are educated enough to realize that official government policy is often at odds with the will of the people. Latin Americans should be painfully aware of that.



> Things are bad enough on the locals now with gas up 20% and the price of corn driving up food prices. If a 20% tax is levied profits will fall to an all time low on a people who are already struggling. Our friends here work in construction and work is really down due to to the cost of materials.
> 
> But Trump will not back down on the wall and Nieto has called off the talks. This is not going to go well for Mexico.


 I've read some opinions by Mexican economists that place the blame on Mexico for having put itself in the extremely vulnerable position of being so dependent on the U.S. The main source of income is now remittances, and almost all of that comes from the U.S., while over 80% of its exports go to the U.S. Compare that with most South American countries that keep a much more balanced trade relationship between the U.S., China, Europe and each other. Until Mexico fixes that vulnerability, as one economist put it, "We're like a little wiener dog barking at a Rottweiler.


----------



## Gatos

DebInFL said:


> My concern is that Mexico will reciprocate by making it harder to immigrate, or to renew a visitor visa. Border officials will not be as lenient on Americanos moving South. This has happened at the worst time. I was seriously going to move to MX this year, but now I'm watching carefully to see how it affects American expats. I am afraid it won't be as safe as it is now, or as easy to get in and out.


I can only repeat what I wrote on a different thread earlier this week. We visited SRE - told them we want nothing more than to be Mexican citizens. The three ladies we spoke with were as sweat as can be. The line for Mexicans looking to leave was very long. The line for expats wanting to stay just had us.

But I've come to realize that my wife and I live in a different Mexico than most people here. Perhaps we have blinders on but except for the lack of traffic lights (mostly), the lack of traffic monitoring cameras on every corner, and the language - we might just as well be living in South Florida - with all the good aspects of Mexico thrown in. 

What we did - and what I suggest you do - is stop by and visit the Mexican Consulate in Florida and just tell them you want to move to Mexico (a lot). Even if you are not yet ready - they will remember your visit - and when you return you will be met with smiles.


----------



## DebInFL

> I've read some opinions by Mexican economists that place the blame on Mexico for having put itself in the extremely vulnerable position of being so dependent on the U.S. The main source of income is now remittances, and almost all of that comes from the U.S., while over 80% of its exports go to the U.S. Compare that with most South American countries that keep a much more balanced trade relationship between the U.S., China, Europe and each other. Until Mexico fixes that vulnerability, as one economist put it, "We're like a little wiener dog barking at a Rottweiler.


Mexico screwed itself with NAFTA. Now it is dependent on those American companies who moved down for jobs and the tax income they provide, plus a lot of the companies pay for improvements to infrastructure to help them, which benefits everyone. 

The thing is, we get 8% of our oil from Mexico, and that is not an inconsiderable amount. Plus, 60% of the exports from Mexico to the U.S. are made by American companies, so if Trump persists, Mexico could make it a lot more expensive for those companies to do business, like imposing taxes on them. Mexico could make it more expensive for them to stay, but too cheap for them to go back to the U.S. or anywhere else.

Mexico's President may be corrupt, but he isn't stupid. I'm thinking that he can make Trump realize that MX can make life very hard for all the American companies and people living here, and who will be blamed? Trump. 

Trust me, American companies are going to start raising hell if it's going to cost them more to do business here, and if American expats and tourists start being harmed or harrassed, Trump will take the brunt of it. 

He's going to learn really fast that the corporations have much more power than he does, and they will shut him down in a heartbeat if he interferes with their money spigots. The U.S. has already destroyed Haiti with a horrible trade deal on rice, and destroyed how many middle-eastern countries with wars and their meddling in political affairs? People have had enough of their bullying, I think.

A lot of democrats voted for Trump against Hillary, but they are beginning to regret it now. He's a despot, and people are seeing that. Don't think for a minute that Pence and the cabinet will not invoke the 25th Amendment if they feel they must, although that might just be jumping from the pot to the kettle.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Jimmie Carter quote: " After 3 months in office [as the President elect] I realized how little power I actually had."


----------



## DebInFL

AlanMexicali said:


> Jimmie Carter quote: " After 3 months in office [as the President elect] I realized how little power I actually had."


Exactly. Trump thinks he can rule by decree, but at some point, the Congress is going to say "no" to him, and then we will see a king-sized tantrum.


----------



## Zorro2017

DebInFL said:


> Exactly. Trump thinks he can rule by decree, but at some point, the Congress is going to say "no" to him, and then we will see a king-sized tantrum.


Republicans control the house and the senate so he has the backing that he needs. There is no doubt he will not get his way every time but we can't very well argue that a substantial spectrum of the country bought the concept of the wall. 

Many in America voted for this wall by voting for Trump.


----------



## Isla Verde

DebInFL said:


> Exactly. Trump thinks he can rule by decree, but at some point, the Congress is going to say "no" to him, and then we will see a king-sized tantrum.


I'm sure he's already thrown some president-sized tantrums, but they've been hushed up by his "keepers", oops, I mean family and staff.


----------



## perropedorro

DebInFL said:


> Mexico screwed itself with NAFTA. Now it is dependent on those American companies who moved down for jobs and the tax income they provide, plus a lot of the companies pay for improvements to infrastructure to help them, which benefits everyone.
> 
> The thing is, we get 8% of our oil from Mexico, and that is not an inconsiderable amount. Plus, 60% of the exports from Mexico to the U.S. are made by American companies, so if Trump persists, Mexico could make it a lot more expensive for those companies to do business, like imposing taxes on them. Mexico could make it more expensive for them to stay, but too cheap for them to go back to the U.S. or anywhere else.
> 
> Mexico's President may be corrupt, but he isn't stupid. I'm thinking that he can make Trump realize that MX can make life very hard for all the American companies and people living here, and who will be blamed? Trump.
> 
> Trust me, American companies are going to start raising hell if it's going to cost them more to do business here, and if American expats and tourists start being harmed or harrassed, Trump will take the brunt of it.
> 
> He's going to learn really fast that the corporations have much more power than he does, and they will shut him down in a heartbeat if he interferes with their money spigots. The U.S. has already destroyed Haiti with a horrible trade deal on rice, and destroyed how many middle-eastern countries with wars and their meddling in political affairs? People have had enough of their bullying, I think.
> 
> A lot of democrats voted for Trump against Hillary, but they are beginning to regret it now. He's a despot, and people are seeing that. Don't think for a minute that Pence and the cabinet will not invoke the 25th Amendment if they feel they must, although that might just be jumping from the pot to the kettle.


Too much to fully comment on, some of which I agree with. Still....U.S. oil imports from Mexico as opposed to U.S. gasoline exports to Mexico is now a wash. Oil reserves and Pemex, while perhaps not benefiting the average José, at least took some of the drain off the economy by satisfying the tapeworm of corruption.
"Mexico's President may be corrupt, but he isn't stupid." There we agree and disagree. PN, while corrupt, has downright Scandinavian honesty next to some of his predecessors, namely Salinas. As far as intelligence, not so much. He's widely regarded as the stupidest (albeit most handsome) presidente anyone can remember. Also his problems started way before Trump surprised everyone by being _selected_.
That Trump is a bully and a sociopath, having deep insecurities masked by an aggressive posture, no argument whatsoever. Rather consistent with Mexico having a pathetically weak and vulnerable economy, low-hanging fruit that's always the first target of a bully.


----------



## Me Linda

Yes perropeddora he could be a sociopath, I remember a comment on sociopaths that they are either mass murders or ruthless business men . But they are usually cold , emotionless , don't care what anyone thinks of them . Maybe antisocial , aggressive,compounded with low self esteem? Regardless he is dangerous, already endangering lives as seen by what is going on in our airports here in America as we speak.


----------



## DebInFL

Me Linda said:


> Yes perropeddora he could be a sociopath, I remember a comment on sociopaths that they are either mass murders or ruthless business men . But they are usually cold , emotionless , don't care what anyone thinks of them . Maybe antisocial , aggressive,compounded with low self esteem? Regardless he is dangerous, already endangering lives as seen by what is going on in our airports here in America as we speak.


Sociopaths are also very disorganized, and from everything I've read, he is that and more. His empire would collapse if he didn't have people keeping him in line, and in fact, when he didn't was when he got into all that trouble and had to declare bankruptcy. I think he's a malignant narcissist, because he actually enjoys hurting people.


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## Bobbyb

As long as the Republicans stand behind him and praise his every move nothing will change. I think that if another election was held next week he would win again. Senators and Congressmen only think of being re elected


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## TurtleToo

Zorro2017 said:


> The construction of this wall has brought the relationship between Mexico and the United States to an all time low. Talks have been canceled so any future solutions look dim. I just hope that the collective anger of the Mexican people is aimed at Trump, not average Americans.. . . . . . . . .
> 
> But Trump will not back down on the wall and Nieto has called off the talks. *This is not going to go well for Mexico.*


Nor for the US. In just a few days in office Trump has succeeded in trashing the decades of careful US-Mexico diplomacy that brought our two countries from hostile, mistrustful adversaries to friendly neighbors, allies and trade partners. He seems oblivious to the dangers of damaging a friendly relationship that the US needs in order to address many issues of mutual concern--Central American immigration, cartels, drugs, trade, banking, and on and on. He has succeeded in rousing anti-American sentiment among the leaders of a neighboring country, and bullying its president into having to stand up to him in order to save face at home. 

So much for those much-vaunted negotiating skills! Hard to imagine that anyone could have done worse. The first goal of a negotiation is to succeed in bringing the other party to the meeting. Fortunately he was muzzled in time for some of the remaining diplomatic staff to take over negotiating a joint statement by the two presidents. But it is a dangerous state of affairs when the interests of the country depend on staff having the ability to keep the president quiet.

Are those who bought into his "Great Negotiator" riff shocked and disappointed? Probably not.

.


----------



## lagoloo

They hired a gunslinger, not a diplomat or experienced politician who knows when to talk, when to listen and when to compromise.
They got what they voted for. Is anyone suprised that he's Pi....ing off the whole world?

Hillary Clinton, regardless of what people didn't like about her, would never, as former Secretary of State, has gotten the U.S into this mess. So, praise the Lard that the "people" (or at least enough to get him the Electoral College vote in) got what they wanted. Now let's see how they like it. Hmmmm.


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## TurtleToo

lagoloo said:


> They hired a gunslinger, not a diplomat or experienced politician who knows when to talk, when to listen and when to compromise.
> They got what they voted for. Is anyone suprised that he's Pi....ing off the whole world?
> 
> Hillary Clinton, regardless of what people didn't like about her, would never, as former Secretary of State, has gotten the U.S into this mess. So, praise the Lard that the "people" (or at least enough to get him the Electoral College vote in) got what they wanted. Now let's see how they like it. Hmmmm.


So far it seems that almost half of the country is happy with his first week. Scary. In fact, that scares me more than Donald Trump himself.

.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Let us hope for an early impeachable offense, insanity & replacement, stroke, heart attack, chronic diahrrea, anything.....please!


----------



## Isla Verde

Bobbyb said:


> As long as the Republicans stand behind him and praise his every move nothing will change. I think that if another election was held next week he would win again. Senators and Congressmen only think of being re elected


But if another election were held in, let's say, six months, it might be another story entirely. :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> Let us hope for an early impeachable offense, insanity & replacement, stroke, heart attack, chronic diahrrea, anything.....please!


He already suffers from diarrhea of the mouth, but I don't suppose that would be enough to get rid of him. In fact, that's one of the main reasons for his victory, unfortunately.


----------



## TurtleToo

RVGRINGO said:


> Let us hope for an early impeachable offense, insanity & replacement, stroke, heart attack, chronic diahrrea, anything.....please!


I give him six months to a year before he gets himself impeached for being a danger to the country. Right now the Republicans don't want to cross him because they need him to sign their wish list of legislation. (Repeal the ACA, lower taxes on the wealthy, gut environmental, corporate, and banking regulations, increase military spending, cut everything else--the first two for sure.) But as Trump crashes along destabilizing the world, creating chaos, and endangering the country, they will soon decide the price is too high to pay. Especially since Pence can give them everything they want without the craziness, the petty vindictiveness, and the constant threat of alienating our friends and allies around the world. Besides that, he is more reliably conservative, and adored by the Tea Party wing. Ryan, McConnell and other party leaders will cut deals with Pence, and then get rid of Trump. By then he will have given them any number of reasons to impeach.

At least that is my fantasy!


----------



## Gatos

Pense scares me more than Trump because he was chosen by Trump.

I am glad I m an old fart with no kids. I'm fed up with the whole charade.


----------



## joaquinx

Where is Claus von Stauffenberg when you need him?


----------



## TurtleToo

RVGRINGO said:


> Let us hope for an early impeachable offense, insanity & replacement, stroke, heart attack, chronic diahrrea, anything.....please!


RVGringo, you are so much more imaginative than I am! Diarrhea never occurred to me!  

.


----------



## Gatos

I believe All public service should be gratis. If that is not possible, that is where party etc funds should come into play. I know - I'm naive.


----------



## Me Linda

The you know what is hitting the fan all over America and the world , people with permanent residency and visas are being denied entry due to their religion. Europe, Americans ,England pretty much the whole world going nuclear on Trump. All turning there anger at him . Looks like his only friend is Russia. The people being detained are people with legal papers , doctors, professors, college students, silicone valley engineers. Families torn apart.Lawyers coming out of the woodwork to file lawsuits against Trumps tyranny. It will be the Lawyer's and Trumps arrogance that will bring him down. By the way the country with the most terrorists that have attacked 9/11 etc. aren't on list of countries Egypt and Saudi/ Trump has hotel there .


----------



## AlanMexicali

TurtleToo said:


> So far it seems that almost half of the country is happy with his first week. Scary. In fact, that scares me more than Donald Trump himself.
> 
> .


47 or so million voted him in so that is roughly 1/7th of the 330 milion Americans [most are citizens I presume] living in the USA. 1/2 would be 160 or so million. I doubt even 1/4 of the adult population feels comfortable with Trump now and possibly even less a year from now.

Children of course don´t count. It seems a lagre percentage of adult Americans didn´t vote so that says something about the general attitude of many [Who cares!].


----------



## AlanMexicali

Me Linda said:


> The you know what is hitting the fan all over America and the world , people with permanent residency and visas are being denied entry due to their religion. Europe, Americans ,England pretty much the whole world going nuclear on Trump. All turning there anger at him . Looks like his only friend is Russia. The people being detained are people with legal papers , doctors, professors, college students, silicone valley engineers. Families torn apart.Lawyers coming out of the woodwork to file lawsuits against Trumps tyranny. It will be the Lawyer's and Trumps arrogance that will bring him down. By the way the country with the most terrorists that have attacked 9/11 etc. aren't on list of countries Egypt and Saudi/ Trump has hotel there .


People with US legal residency are not being denied re-entery into the USA.


----------



## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> People with US legal residency are not being denied re-entery into the USA.


Not true. They were being denied re-entry yesterday right after Trump signed his proclamation, even people with green cards and student visas who had already begun their studies in the US and had gone home for the holidays. After all the commotion online and at many of the nation's airports, this part of the presidential order has been changed.


----------



## Me Linda

I am here in Florida people with green cards and legal visas held in detention at airports, Attorneys and ACLU filed emergency court requests, legal USA permanent residents and visa holders released after injunctions by judges in NY Boston and states across America , legal immigrants and permanent residents detained and held!


----------



## Me Linda

Attorneys reviewing the Trump executive order states the language used in order states anyone that is racist or antagonist against another religion or promotes violence against women shall be banned from USA entry, that means Donald Trump based on his speechs and past actions against women would be banned from USA entry


----------



## TurtleToo

AlanMexicali said:


> People with US legal residency are not being denied re-entery into the USA.


The original order included legal residents when it went into effect. The provision applying to green card holders was reversed Sunday.

Immigration ban includes green card holders: DHS | TheHill

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ard-holders-visa-travel-warning-a7552041.html


----------



## perropedorro

TurtleToo said:


> I give him six months to a year before he gets himself impeached for being a danger to the country. Right now the Republicans don't want to cross him because they need him to sign their wish list of legislation. (Repeal the ACA, lower taxes on the wealthy, gut environmental, corporate, and banking regulations, increase military spending, cut everything else--the first two for sure.) But as Trump crashes along destabilizing the world, creating chaos, and endangering the country, they will soon decide the price is too high to pay. Especially since Pence can give them everything they want without the craziness, the petty vindictiveness, and the constant threat of alienating our friends and allies around the world. Besides that, he is more reliably conservative, and adored by the Tea Party wing. Ryan, McConnell and other party leaders will cut deals with Pence, and then get rid of Trump. By then he will have given them any number of reasons to impeach.
> 
> At least that is my fantasy!


Not that there's a lot of value added in trading in Trump for Pence, depending on how much he really subscribes to Trump's wild policies and how much he traded his soul for the position. He isn't crazy... unless you're confusing him with that guy in _Airplane!_, although perhaps not too bright.
Far as getting impeachment by Republicans, that's real iffy given that many have drifted so far to the right. They've gone progressively past Bush I and II, Reagan and Nixon--- while Ike would be branded a socialist now. When the same Nixon stepped in the Watergate doo-doo, and the world was closing in, Goldwater & Co. paid a visit to the Dickster to explain that his show was over, one way or another. Fortunately he left quietly, saving his pension and the trouble and disgrace of having to put a president behind bars. And apart from Republicans of that era having more consistency and character, there were other salient differences, primarily that politics then was far less partisan, with ideology more divided by region than party. A few northern Republicans were to the left of many Southern Democrats. The other thing is that in '73, dems had hefty majorities in both houses while Rs now control everything. Of course the key to putting any pressure on Trump would be Paul Ryan, fairly young and relatively sane. Could be the biggest test of character and love for his country he's ever had.


----------



## AlanMexicali

TurtleToo said:


> The original order included legal residents when it went into effect. The provision applying to green card holders was reversed Sunday.
> 
> Immigration ban includes green card holders: DHS | TheHill
> 
> White House reverses travel ban on green card holders | The Independent


https://www.facebook.com/TheProjectTV/videos/10154292750113441/

The Week One video explains these and moe also.


----------



## Me Linda

TurtleToo said:


> AlanMexicali said:
> 
> 
> 
> People with US legal residency are not being denied re-entery into the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> The original order included legal residents when it went into effect. The provision applying to green card holders was reversed Sunday.
> 
> Immigration ban includes green card holders: DHS | TheHill
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ard-holders-visa-travel-warning-a7552041.html
Click to expand...




AlanMexicali said:


> TurtleToo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original order included legal residents when it went into effect. The provision applying to green card holders was reversed Sunday.
> 
> Immigration ban includes green card holders: DHS | TheHill
> 
> White House reverses travel ban on green card holders | The Independent
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/TheProjectTV/videos/10154292750113441/
Click to expand...

. Sunday morning Trumps secretary of state in interview said order did not include green card holder , later in the day Trump and Steve Bannon ( alt right white supremacist) his security council rolled that back said it included everyone. The only reason anyone released is ACLU attorneys and federal judges orders


----------



## MissThing

I have been wondering the same thing. Thanks for raising this question because the peso's huge drop in value has definitely created a tension between me and everyone I hand money to here. Not a single taxi driver who doesn't bring Trump up and probe me for my opinions on his hostility towards Mexico.


----------



## Isla Verde

MissThing said:


> I have been wondering the same thing. Thanks for raising this question because the peso's huge drop in value has definitely created a tension between me and everyone I hand money to here. Not a single taxi driver who doesn't bring Trump up and probe me for my opinions on his hostility towards Mexico.


I haven't felt any of the tension you mention. And when Mexicans ask me for my opinion about Trump, I feel it's more morbid curiosity than probing. Just my experiences, of course. Yours are also valid.


----------



## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> I haven't felt any of the tension you mention. And when Mexicans ask me for my opinion about Trump, I feel it's more morbid curiosity than probing. Just my experiences, of course. Yours are also valid.





MissThing said:


> I have been wondering the same thing. Thanks for raising this question because the peso's huge drop in value has definitely created a tension between me and everyone I hand money to here. Not a single taxi driver who doesn't bring Trump up and probe me for my opinions on his hostility towards Mexico.


Nor have I seen any hostility toward me, lots towards Trump. People do ask me what I think about him occasionally, but it has always been out of curiosity rather than hostility. It doesn't feel aimed at me personally, and I don't take it personally.


----------



## perropedorro

MissThing said:


> I have been wondering the same thing. Thanks for raising this question because the peso's huge drop in value has definitely created a tension between me and everyone I hand money to here. Not a single taxi driver who doesn't bring Trump up and probe me for my opinions on his hostility towards Mexico.


I also find Trump inquiries from strangers to be annoying, and often challenging. If you're not a Mexican citizen, I'd suggest replying as I do: "As a guest in your country, I abide by the Mexican Constitution which dictates that I refrain from discussing politics". Sure, in private I'll vent my Trump frustration with family and close friends, but refuse to say anything in public or be near a demonstration like the Gasolinazo. I'm looking forward to qualifying for naturalization in 12 months--- unless Trump's antics render international relations FUBAR.


----------



## DiverSailor123

I will speculate that there just isn't going to be issues between Mexicans as a whole with American Expats unless the Peso Dumps in the toilet .. Then it might just be a matter of trying to look and sound as much like Canadians as is possible by, starting and ending every sentence with ehh and Never tip over a dollar hahahahaha


----------



## Gatos

I'm going to speculate on your speculation. If there is going to be animosity on the part of the Mexicans it is going to be in the touristy areas. Cozumel, Cancun, PV, etc. Arrogant Americans are going to come and believe that the dollar is king - they will have an attitude - you should be grateful we are here.

Having lived in South Florida during the real estate debacle - the same sentiments were felt towards the Canadians who - at the time - thought their currency was king. 

In central Mexico - outside of places like Guad. or Chapala or other such expat enclaves - there won't be any affect. But - the cost at Pemex is a real concern.

The cost of our lamb tacos has increased recently - however - from 15 to 16 pesos...


----------



## TundraGreen

Gatos said:


> I'm going to speculate on your speculation. If there is going to be animosity on the part of the Mexicans it is going to be in the touristy areas. Cozumel, Cancun, PV, etc. Arrogant Americans are going to come and believe that the dollar is king - they will have an attitude - you should be grateful we are here.
> 
> Having lived in South Florida during the real estate debacle - the same sentiments were felt towards the Canadians who - at the time - thought their currency was king.
> 
> In central Mexico - outside of places like Guad. or Chapala or other such expat enclaves - there won't be any affect. But - the cost at Pemex is a real concern.
> 
> The cost of our lamb tacos has increased recently - however - from 15 to 16 pesos...


Please don't include Guadalajara (Guad) in your list of tourist places. Almost all the tourists that come to Guadalajara are Mexican. And there are very few expats or snowbirds. The absolute numbers are pretty small to start with, and as a proportion of the 5 million plus population, the foreigners are a really tiny number. Lake Chapala and Ajijic are not part of the Guadalajara Zona Metropolitana.


----------



## Gatos

TundraGreen said:


> Please don't include Guadalajara (Guad) in your list of tourist places. Almost all the tourists that come to Guadalajara are Mexican. And there are very few expats or snowbirds. The absolute numbers are pretty small to start with, and as a proportion of the 5 million plus population, the foreigners are a really tiny number. Lake Chapala and Ajijic are not part of the Guadalajara Zona Metropolitana.


Sorry - didn't mean to offend - the only time I have been to Guad. was as a tourist - principally to visit that nearby city (Tlaquepaque) where they manufacture furniture. Isn't that also the home of the mariachies (sp ?). 

Anyway - I hope you get my point - where we live I have not seen a US dollar in four years. In a place like Chapala - can you pay for breakfast in dollars ?


----------



## DiverSailor123

You might be right and again you might be wrong.. You see after 20+ years of watching tourist.. when the peso is soft we see an insurgence of visitors in tourist areas... Radio TV and the Daily Papers , Cozumeleno's were regularly reminded that , *The Tourist Feed Us All*...Treat Them Well... Mexicans have come to expect and recognize the nasty tourist versus the majority who are there to enjoy the area and spends Billions of dollars.


Gatos said:


> I'm going to speculate on your speculation. If there is going to be animosity on the part of the Mexicans it is going to be in the touristy areas. Cozumel, Cancun, PV, etc. Arrogant Americans are going to come and believe that the dollar is king - they will have an attitude - you should be grateful we are here.
> 
> Having lived in South Florida during the real estate debacle - the same sentiments were felt towards the Canadians who - at the time - thought their currency was king.
> 
> In central Mexico - outside of places like Guad. or Chapala or other such expat enclaves - there won't be any affect. But - the cost at Pemex is a real concern.
> 
> The cost of our lamb tacos has increased recently - however - from 15 to 16 pesos...


----------



## perropedorro

TundraGreen said:


> ...and as a proportion of the 5 million plus population, the foreigners are a really tiny number. Lake Chapala and Ajijic are not part of the Guadalajara Zona Metropolitana.


No it's not, but Chapala isn't far away, and there always seem to be a bunch of expats at the Costco in Tlajomulco. Quite ironic that there seem to be more English-speaking customers there than at any Costco in El Lay. 
As for recent news on the peso, it's up against the dollar today. My guess is that it fell in the last couple months with Trump taking on Mexico. Last three days or so, he's apparently taking on the whole world and the U.S. becoming a pariah could damage the dollar severely.


----------



## Gatos

But - anywhere in the universe of Guad. can you actually pay for your COSTCO tab with USD paper ? (At the checkout).


----------



## perropedorro

Gatos said:


> But - anywhere in the universe of Guad. can you actually pay for your COSTCO tab with USD paper ? (At the checkout).


Beats me. I never use dollars anywhere in Mexico, not even in TJ, because the exchange rate is rarely good and often downright abusive. Anecdotally, from spending a couple weekends a month in GDL, I haven't seen a lot of dollars circulate, certainly not to the extent as in PV. They probably do at the 5 star hotels and restaurants where wealthier tourists and international businessmen hang out, but there most things are likely to be paid with a CC anyway.


----------



## DiverSailor123

I have only been in 4 Costco's in Mexico but there as here I don't EVER remember seeing people pay with cash.. Have you been to Costco? Costco is NOT a place you run into to buy a bag of Hot Nuts and a Jamba of Sol.. :bolt:


Gatos said:


> But - anywhere in the universe of Guad. can you actually pay for your COSTCO tab with USD paper ? (At the checkout).


----------



## TundraGreen

perropedorro said:


> Beats me. I never use dollars anywhere in Mexico, not even in TJ, because the exchange rate is rarely good and often downright abusive. Anecdotally, from spending a couple weekends a month in GDL, I haven't seen a lot of dollars circulate, certainly not to the extent as in PV. They probably do at the 5 star hotels and restaurants where wealthier tourists and international businessmen hang out, but there most things are likely to be paid with a CC anyway.


I have lived in Guadalajara for 10 years and have never seen any shop that says it will accept Dollars. I can't speak about 5 star hotels.


----------



## RVGRINGO

In Mexico, it costs more to use a credit card in Costco. Note the two prices posted; the lower price is the cash price.


----------



## GARYJ65

Gatos said:


> I really try not to pay too much attention to Trump (and his people's) rhetoric - but I do believe that in the end he will declare victory if he gets Mexico to contribute some of the raw materials for his wall. Of course - it would be a better built wall and would last a lot longer if Mexicans were to build it
> 
> I don't know how viable a passage is from Guatemala <-> Chiapas is these days. I thought I read that Mexico was putting some effort into making that a more difficult crossing.
> 
> There is just so much that isn't told. How much does ONE undeserved H1B visa cost the US workforce ?


Mexico could contribute with labor! If Trump keeps the illegal aliens, we have a deal!


----------



## GARYJ65

TundraGreen said:


> Nor have I seen any hostility toward me, lots towards Trump. People do ask me what I think about him occasionally, but it has always been out of curiosity rather than hostility. It doesn't feel aimed at me personally, and I don't take it personally.


Try telling people that you agree with Trump...


----------



## TundraGreen

GARYJ65 said:


> Try telling people that you agree with Trump...


I would choke trying to say that. And no one who knows me would believe it.


----------



## perropedorro

GARYJ65 said:


> Try telling people that you agree with Trump...


There's one thing I agree with Trump on:


> *"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."*
> _Donald J. Trump on Twitter, 8:45 PM - 6 Nov 2012_


:thumb:


----------



## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I would choke trying to say that. And no one who knows me would believe it.


Don't do it, TG! We need you here to keep the forum functioning in a civilized manner, and I would lose a good friend!


----------



## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Try telling people that you agree with Trump...


Thank God that I have no friends in Mexico or elsewhere who would be able to say that without bursting into hysterical, cynical laughter!


----------



## GARYJ65

Gatos said:


> I'm going to speculate on your speculation. If there is going to be animosity on the part of the Mexicans it is going to be in the touristy areas. Cozumel, Cancun, PV, etc. Arrogant Americans are going to come and believe that the dollar is king - they will have an attitude - you should be grateful we are here.
> 
> Having lived in South Florida during the real estate debacle - the same sentiments were felt towards the Canadians who - at the time - thought their currency was king.
> 
> In central Mexico - outside of places like Guad. or Chapala or other such expat enclaves - there won't be any affect. But - the cost at Pemex is a real concern.
> 
> The cost of our lamb tacos has increased recently - however - from 15 to 16 pesos...


Hopefully Americans will not show arrogance while in Mexico, otherwise they might end up with a broken snout  (as we don't kick arses in Mexico)


----------



## TurtleToo

perropedorro said:


> There's one thing I agree with Trump on: :thumb: "The electoral college is a disaster for democacy." --Donald Trump


I've heard one other thing that I agree with: he's increasing the ban on lobbying jobs for administration officials to 5 years after they leave government service. (I'd be happy for it to be even longer.)

.


----------



## eastwind

I read somewhere that the ban is also a lifetime ban on lobbying for foreign governments.


----------



## Me Linda

Hello from TRUMP WORLD everyone! Trump is bringing his two finalists for the Supreme Court on to the stage tonight. He will interrupt all television to crown , sorry pick his nominee . This is just like the miss universe contest ! Reporters saying no president has ever made picking a Supreme Court nominee into a reality tv show !


----------



## Gatos

Me Linda said:


> Hello from TRUMP WORLD everyone! Trump is bringing his two finalists for the Supreme Court on to the stage tonight. He will interrupt all television to crown , sorry pick his nominee . This is just like the miss universe contest ! Reporters saying no president has ever made picking a Supreme Court nominee into a reality tv show !


Our TV will be off by 8PM ET. But I'll go with Giuliani - or perhaps a family member (those were jokes folks).


----------



## TurtleToo

joaquinx said:


> Where is Claus von Stauffenberg when you need him?


Unfortunately (if memory serves and Claus is who I think he is) he was unsuccessful!


----------



## joaquinx

TurtleToo said:


> Unfortunately (if memory serves and Claus is who I think he is) he was unsuccessful!


True. He demonstrated that it was better to die on your feet than serve on your knees.


----------



## RickS

El Deplorable, let me first say two things.... I understand that the SW border areas has it's share of misery caused by the illegal immigration problem, and second I am opposed to illegal immigration.

Having said that, I find your tone and language to be pretty offensive and your alternative facts to be pretty much in line with what is quoted by many for effect but without firm evidence.... surely not at the elevated level suggested. 

In my view, it is not Mexico's problem alone to solve the illegal immigration problem. IF there were only minor drug addiction in the US, there would be no coyote's crossing with cartel goods. No market, no trade! But the majority of illegals who traditionally have crossed are doing so because there is/was abundant low level jobs available to them initially in the SW and later all over the US. Shame on us for letting that happen and shame on us for perpetuating the 'line' that they stole these jobs from willing US workers. US commerce made those jobs low paying by exploiting the available labor and it came in droves. Interestingly enough, the current "NET" population exchange between Mexico and the US is near zero. 

As far the wall goes, or maybe an expansion of the already existing walls go, many of us see that huge expenditure as being (except in certain areas) just a political stunt to appease the many voters who called for it without actually understanding the insaneness of it's value. I'm sure you along the SW borders could come up with many ways to better spend those dollars!

Anyway, you have your opinion which I acknowledge as your right and I have mine.
BTW, I am not an expatiate but a resident of the US. I just happen to like Mexico and it's peoples.


----------



## DiverSailor123

I have to ask where you found that fact? #1. Very Few Americans are holding jobs in Mexico as compared to Mexicans holding jobs here.. #2. Even if you add Retirees to that list, its nowhere near NET Zero .. #3. Retirees are a Blessing so to speak.. All They ever really ask for from any community ( that they move into ) is where can we begin spending all our money.. True Not All Retirees are Cashed Up.. But even those struggling to get by , none are a drain on any of Mexico's social service programs( because basically Mexico Has No Social Service Programs) Comparatively speaking there are few families that move to Mexico and the Vast Majority 99.999999% of those who do enroll their children in Private Schools IN FACT Most Mexicans given the chance enroll their own children in Private Schools..


[/I]


RickS said:


> "NET" population exchange between Mexico and the US is near zero.


----------



## RickS

Sorry, let me refine my statement to make it more understandable.... I was talking about the Net exchange of Mexican Nationals going into the US (illegally?) and the same returning from the US to Mexico. In other words the illegal traffic north has slowed significantly, comparable to those coming back "permanently".


----------



## RickS

_"But even those struggling to get by , none are a drain on any of Mexico's social service programs because Mexico has no Social Service Programs...."_

Driver, I agree with you that many US (and Canadian) Expats contribute handsomely to at least the local economy, especially where there is a high concentration of said....Lake Chapala and San Miguel for two. But I'm wondering where you picked up the notion that Mexico has no Social Service Programs, and that Expats don't avail themselves of those services? IMSS and Sergio Popular are two medical Social Service programs and both of them accept expat entry into them. I have friends and acquaintances who use both. Not free but also not more than anyone else pays and a pittance compared to NOB. Many are grateful that Mexico extends these services to them because they certainly did not have to do so.

Also, could you quote a source for your statement that " _IN FACT Most Mexicans given the chance enroll their own children in Private Schools.."
_ This is far far from my understanding of the truth.


----------



## DiverSailor123

I wonder how in the world they ever came to that conclusion? But that is a possible and MAYBE a probable conclusion.. I do wonder how they track such things.. These people are NOT broadcasting either coming or going... With Our Economy on the rise I would have thought that those leaving or desiring to leave would have been gone when times were tough and jobs were scarce... There are still no jobs in Mexico... If you were to include those working here by necessity to those unemployed in Mexico , Mexico's Unemployment numbers are still in Double Digits..


RickS said:


> Sorry, let me refine my statement to make it more understandable.... I was talking about the Net exchange of Mexican Nationals going into the US (illegally?) and the same returning from the US to Mexico. In other words the illegal traffic north has slowed significantly, comparable to those coming back "permanently".


----------



## DiverSailor123

The Emperor is Naked and he has a real little ....... brain : ))))))))


----------



## RickS

It was not my opinion but rather information from the credible Pew Research Center. 
See: More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S. | Pew Research Center


----------



## RickS

Sorry, spelling is Seguro Popular..... (can't seem to edit after 15 minutes??)


----------



## TurtleToo

RickS said:


> Sorry, let me refine my statement to make it more understandable.... I was talking about the Net exchange of Mexican Nationals going into the US (illegally?) and the same returning from the US to Mexico. In other words the illegal traffic north has slowed significantly, comparable to those coming back "permanently".


Rick is thinking of a Pew study of illegal immigration focused on the years 2009-2014. He is correct that illegal immigration peaked in 2007, and has declined each year through 2014. (Not sure about 2015/16.) The net increase in illegal immigrants from Mexico is now thought to be zero, or more likely a net decrease.

The historical reasons for high levels of immigration from Mexico are always given as a high birth rate coupled with a poor economy with high unemployment and few job prospects, along with improvements in health care that have lowered the infant mortality rate. (Think fast-growing population, few jobs.) Immigration has been declining as a result of an aging population with a declining birth rate coupled with an improved economy (since the desperate 80's, that is) with more job prospects. 

Then add to that long-range picture the US financial crash of 2008. Fewer jobs to be had in the US, providing less incentive.

Less devoutly Catholic practices among the younger generation has meant the increased acceptability of contraception and family planning. Over the years that has resulted in fewer people needing jobs. 

So if you really wanted to reduce immigration, wouldn't it be more effective to spend that 25 billion on condoms and business start-ups?  Or maybe Protestant missionaries?  But seriously, common sense suggests that there are approaches that would be both more effective and less expensive. And possibly even do some good at the same time. 

.


----------



## DiverSailor123

In Reply: I guess I was a victim of coincidence : ) I moved to Florida ( Retired when I thought Mexico was off the table) and Florida is one of the 7 states that has seen an increase in Illegal residents...


----------



## TurtleToo

RickS said:


> It was not my opinion but rather information from the credible Pew Research Center.
> See: More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S. | Pew Research Center


Oops, I see Rick already linked to the Pew info. Ah. . . Late at night!

.


----------



## TurtleToo

DiverSailor123 said:


> In Reply: I guess I was a victim of coincidence : ) I moved to Florida (*Retired when I thought Mexico was off the table)* and Florida is one of the 7 states that has seen an increase in Illegal residents...


Sorry to hear that DiverSailor. If it's because of the financial requirements for residency, have you checked them lately? Since the required amount is cited in pesos, it should be significantly easier to qualify right now with the low peso/high dollar. (Unless that has been changed recently to adjust for the difference, which would make sense.) But the exchange rate had hovered around 13 for so long at the time the new laws were implemented--It might be worth looking into to see if there has been a recent change in the amount they are looking for because of the weaker peso. Of course, you'd still have to think about whether you'd be okay when/if the peso gets stronger.


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## Gatos

RVGRINGO said:


> In Mexico, it costs more to use a credit card in Costco. Note the two prices posted; the lower price is the cash price.


That is not quite correct. Costco does post two prices - the cash price (which is the same as using the Costco Credit card) - and the higher credit card price. Also (I believe) when you use the Costco Credit card (at Costco) you earn an extra 2% rebate which is distributed once a year I believe. Also - I believe we get an additional 2% rebate when we use our black Costco membership card - again distributed once a year.


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## Gatos

Interestingly - just today we received notification that our annual rebate from our Costco card is 958 pesos. (Hey - that is about four cases of beer!). And to be honest I hardly used that card last year because of the dollar's strength...


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## RVGRINGO

Gatos:
Are you talking about Costco in the USA or in Mexico? They are different in many ways. 
Costco Credit Card? Well, in the USA, they have very limited acceptance of any credit cards; recently changing from only AMEX to only VISA. In Mexico, they would accept most credit cards at the higher price, but I did not know of any “Costco Credit Card“ issued by them.


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## Gatos

RVGRINGO said:


> Gatos:
> Are you talking about Costco in the USA or in Mexico? They are different in many ways.
> Costco Credit Card? Well, in the USA, they have very limited acceptance of any credit cards; recently changing from only AMEX to only VISA. In Mexico, they would accept most credit cards at the higher price, but I did not know of any “Costco Credit Card“ issued by them.


Costco Mexico issues a credit card backed by Banamex. The one in my hand is silver and is good for 5 years. There is an annual fee - but I'm going to guess it is around $50 USD or so (not sure). It does have a decent credit limit because it is easy for us to ring up a tab at Costco sometimes. We always pay on time (or early). One nice feature is - if we shop at Costco in the morning and I open my email when I get home - there is an email related to the transaction.

Edit : It is even BETTER than I thought...
https://portal.banamex.com.mx/solicitud_tdc_v3/index.html?surcursal=8082&canal=16&pos=75105&idproducto=920270&empresa=168&ecid=AF-SitioCostcoAfiliado-CreditCardPrivate-Costco-COA-INT-10042016-Emp168

Not only do you save 2.3% on each purchase you get back the 2% annual rebate.


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