# The Positives & Negatives of living in Israel?



## sensualspirit

So I've been hearing from almost anyone I talk to that living in Israel is hard.

While I would have used those words years ago since it's such a modern country, I'm not quite sure what the expats are referring to.

Besides maybe being afraid of terrorists, bombers, etc., in your opinion, what are the pros & cons of living in Israel?

I hope a lot of people reply, it doesn't seem there's very much response on this forum.

Thank you


Michelle


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## bustonowhere

I am very new to this forum, not very new to the country (my family came here when I was 6, I've been here for 22 years), but a lot of the people around me daily are expats. I'll allow myself to reply.

I don't think that the security threats are what bothers most Israelis or expats. Questionable means aside, Israel has been as secure as a lot of other European cities for years now. In fact, every major city in the world had to deal with terrorist threats...

But in short, I'd say that what's difficult here is the Israelis and their way of going about things. There is a directness that sometime becomes rudeness. It's extremely unimaginable to people coming from countries where the service industry actually gives good service. Here you may see people cutting in line, being rude to a client, not bothering to answer a question... a bunch of these. Israelis going abroad are sometimes shocked: "Everyone is so nice here!".

Also - non-Jewish people may feel a bit of attention that can also sometimes be rude. An ex-girlfriend who was French and atheist was asked whether she's Jewish several times a week, then "so what are you doing here?". This was out of curiousity, not in a blaming way, but obviously she'd much rather not deal with this.

I'd say that if you work very hard on the language, and immerse yourself in social circles with Israelis - it makes things easier. But you should always have someone to ask advice from, preferably an Israeli that knows his way around the systems.

Hope that gives some insight. I'm sure other people will give better answers.


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## sensualspirit

Yes I know Israelis can be very rude. Do expats become like that or do they maintain their civilness?

If you've been there since you were 6, how did you know things were different outside Israel? Traveling?

How do you handle it when they push, shove, don't apologize etc.?

I have to say that people in North America ignore all the time. IMO it's a sign of disrespect, immaturity & insecurity. The only time I ignore is if someone is harassing me & I've already told them to stop otherwise it's not within my nature to hurt someone & ignoring is abuse IMO.

I would think that Israelis wouldn't ignore if they are so straightforward. Then again I had an aunt that ignored her brother for 11 years b/c of a fight. Again, to me that shows immaturity. I know Israelis who feel shunned in any way will never speak to that person again. I assume working things out like mature adults is beyond most of their comprehension, is that fair to say?

Again, I come across people like this all the time here too, but it's probably less so. If someone came to someone & apologized or tried to work things out, most times a North American wouldn't be so stubborn to say, "Nope, I'm still angry at you, forget it."

Where do you live that there are expats around all the time?

Thank you for answering 


Michelle


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## bustonowhere

First of all, we're speaking in very broad general terms here - I'm sure some people could get offended easily. I'm describing some behaviors that I encounter - I'm not saying that is what you will see all the time. But when you do, it's not unimaginable to the people around you.

Also - I'm talking about the behavior in public spheres - not in personal relations. In personal relations people are very warm. When they don't know you, (like on a train station) it depends on the person and the situation. And also - I think the service industry lacks a lot of norms and respect around here. 

I live in Tel-Aviv and I spend most of my time sitting in Cafe Xoho which is a coffee shop with more English spoken than Hebrew. I've been a regular there for the last year and a half.

My knowledge of other people's cultures comes from being from a Russian cultures, and yes, traveling.



sensualspirit said:


> Yes I know Israelis can be very rude. Do expats become like that or do they maintain their civilness?
> 
> If you've been there since you were 6, how did you know things were different outside Israel? Traveling?
> 
> How do you handle it when they push, shove, don't apologize etc.?
> 
> I have to say that people in North America ignore all the time. IMO it's a sign of disrespect, immaturity & insecurity. The only time I ignore is if someone is harassing me & I've already told them to stop otherwise it's not within my nature to hurt someone & ignoring is abuse IMO.
> 
> I would think that Israelis wouldn't ignore if they are so straightforward. Then again I had an aunt that ignored her brother for 11 years b/c of a fight. Again, to me that shows immaturity. I know Israelis who feel shunned in any way will never speak to that person again. I assume working things out like mature adults is beyond most of their comprehension, is that fair to say?
> 
> Again, I come across people like this all the time here too, but it's probably less so. If someone came to someone & apologized or tried to work things out, most times a North American wouldn't be so stubborn to say, "Nope, I'm still angry at you, forget it."
> 
> Where do you live that there are expats around all the time?
> 
> Thank you for answering
> 
> 
> Michelle


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## sensualspirit

Yes I know Israelis can be very loving people.

If you are saying that the behavior I mentioned is only that of a small percentage, then please let me know, as I only have my experiences to go off of. I haven't been back since 1994 & I have heard the same abrasive description of the personality from pretty much everyone, so I don't see how it could be a small percentage. But maybe I'm wrong.

I don't understand why people get upset by reality. It is what it is & speaking about it out loud shouldn't upset people who are honest. I'm here to understand the full picture, not paint things in a politically correct way.

Again, there are always exceptions to every generalization, but most times things are dead on accurate if only people were willing to be honest.

And I am not here to put anyone down as that's not my style, I'm researching to see if I could handle it.


Michelle


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## isradutch

I think that the honest answer is that the population is quite split into different types of people.
There is no one Israeli typecast...
Yes...Israelis are direct but so are Dutch (I live in Holland and Dutch are not less direct)
Some of them can be rude depending on the situation - for example when you subject Israelis to a "non fun" environment such as standing in line for tickets to a soccer game.
However, I believe that you generally tend to filter out your friends and those that become your friends will be REAL non discriminating friends which is in my opinion something you rarely can find in Northern European countries such as the Netherlands.
Service in Israel is not bad at all (used to be crap but has improved dramatically to the point that it runs circles around most European service which by all means is bad).
The issue about Israel is the contrasts which are certainly there.


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## sensualspirit

Thank you for your opinion.

What contrasts are you referring to? The Ashkanazim vs. the Sepharadim?

I can't believe that war still exists after ALL these years.

So do Israelis put up with poor customer service or do they boycott companies who don't provide it or complain until it's fixed?


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## isradutch

The contrasts between people who behave in an extremely well mannered way and those that remind you of hotheaded ********.
The Ashkenazim vs sefaradim issue exist mainly in the very religious sector.
85% of people couldn't care less about this issue.

As far as customer service goes - Israelis demand good customer service and typically they also get good service (apart from hospitals where doctors are good but extremely arrogant, and government related services which could have higher service standards)

If I compare the customer service in the Netherlands, Belgium, France in shops, restaurants, cafes, hotels to the one in Israel - then hands down Israeli customer service wins.
As far as customer service in hospitals, municipalities etc... Netherlands wins big time.


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## sensualspirit

Oh, so you are saying that there are well mannered Israelis then? Or are you talking about people who made Aliya?

I was referring to Sabras thru & thru.

It's not just the manners, it's the "I am going to tell you what to do b/c I want to run your life since I know more than you & you have no right to run your own life." attitude.

LOL, I remember one guy stating that when he moved to Israel, all the mothers in the park would tell him how to raise his child.

That's not really an Israeli trait, moreso a Jewish one & one I don't like.

I stopped allowing this kind of behavior from people a long time ago. I'm my own person & I'll do whatever I want with my life whether you agree with it or not.

Didn't know about the doctors. That's interesting.

How are the dentists there?

Thanks & Happy New Year


Michal


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## 196185

bustonowhere said:


> First of all, we're speaking in very broad general terms here - I'm sure some people could get offended easily. I'm describing some behaviors that I encounter - I'm not saying that is what you will see all the time. But when you do, it's not unimaginable to the people around you.
> 
> Also - I'm talking about the behavior in public spheres - not in personal relations. In personal relations people are very warm. When they don't know you, (like on a train station) it depends on the person and the situation. And also - I think the service industry lacks a lot of norms and respect around here.
> 
> I live in Tel-Aviv and I spend most of my time sitting in Cafe Xoho which is a coffee shop with more English spoken than Hebrew. I've been a regular there for the last year and a half.
> 
> My knowledge of other people's cultures comes from being from a Russian cultures, and yes, traveling.


Heya bustonowhere!
I just read your post and ....I am in Cafe Xoho as well - hiding behind my laptop ;-)
My laptop is a green Dell.....let's chat next time ;-)


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## Vinnie

I guess there should be little apprehension when it comes to deciding on migrating/moving to Israel, as life style and economy almost matches any of the first world, western nation. Only problem is the conflict with Arab neighbors but that too they seem to have controlled to a great extent.


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## sensualspirit

The conflict believe it or not is the least of my concerns, but b/c I've always been pro Palestinians, it will be hard for me to watch, but I'm not the only Israeli that feels for the Arabs (only within Israel). Especially this younger generation can't stand what the government is doing.

Many Israelis live in & around Arabs & I hope to too.


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## Vinnie

sensualspirit said:


> The conflict believe it or not is the least of my concerns, but b/c I've always been pro Palestinians, it will be hard for me to watch, but I'm not the only Israeli that feels for the Arabs (only within Israel). Especially this younger generation can't stand what the government is doing.
> 
> Many Israelis live in & around Arabs & I hope to too.


I think this empathy for each other makes us human. Lets hope that this violence some how gives way to peace, then this entire region would become a haven of peace, which the various prophets who lived here wanted it to be.


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## sensualspirit

Unfortunately not to sound negative, but I don't see this ever happening.

Governments worldwide don't want peace. They like war b/c they make tons of money & can control the sheeple.

I was always sort of anti government, but in the last several months I've been reading a lot more about what the government's main purpose is, & it's NOT for the people. It's to control them.

It's just that people are deluded (I was too) into believing that the government works for us.

They continue to vote thinking that things will change with the next one in power & clearly history shows that it never does. It's like expecting the alcoholic, who is in denial, to stop drinking. The family keeps hoping they will, but eventually you have to face facts that it's NEVER going to happen. The difference with this example is you are talking about one person. With the government, there are just too many people involved to ever be on the same page.

These people in government have too much power, & once they taste the power, they don't want to give it up.

They then do whatever it takes to keep ahold of the power & control the people.

Sad but true.

And while this isn't the case in Israel necessarily, in North America the other factor is corporations. They really are the ones that have even more power than government officials.

I'm reading another book on how much power HUGE corporations & the fast food industry has. It's disgusting the things I'm learning. I always knew corporations had power, I just didn't realize how the fast food industry has shaped the way we live now.

I haven't finished the book yet, but I'll bet that all the fake things in this world came from the concept of fast food. Obviously there's nothing real when it comes to fast food, so this only makes sense.

So getting back to peace. While we all (well most of us, there are many who are just blood thirsty) want it, I just don't see it happening. Not until people stop relying upon government & listening to them. When people listen & are scared of the government as we almost all are, we give them all the power.

Unfortunately we have all been brainwashed into thinking that we HAVE to have a government. I felt the same way until I started reading LarkenRose.com 's book.

I didn't finish it yet, but it really made me understand how people behave when they have that kind of power. It explains alot about violent behavior.

Have a good day.


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## Vinnie

I agree with you, some how most of the governments only offer lip service when it comes to peace. You have hit the nail on the head when you said, "I'm reading another book on how much power HUGE corporations & the fast food industry has" 

More than often business interests of these big corporations are completely at odd with aspirations and desires of common citizens.


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## carolhannah

I spent a whole year in Israel when I was younger and altho the people were very direct, I never found them to be rude. The Israeli's in the South (Eilat area) were warm, welcoming and kind. I would love to travel thro' Israel again and just wonder if it's safe in Northern parts?


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## leibe

sensualspirit said:


> How are the dentists there?
> 
> Thanks & Happy New Year
> 
> 
> Michal


My dentist is an Israeli living in Cancun, MX. He spends several months a year in Israel working and he is an excellent oral surgeon. Very up to date on procedures, very thorough and very kind.


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## sensualspirit

Sorry for any missed posts.

I've been swamped to say the least. Drama after drama in this country.

WOW, I'm seriously thinking about moving to Mx & Playa. Are you in Cancun or Ecuador?

What is his name?

I'm talking about holistic dentists really.

They are few & far between in Canada & the US, so I can only imagine they just don't exist at all in Israel & someone on this forum said they are egomaniacs.

I swear by mine in Toronto. So much so in fact, that I'm probably going to take a trip to Toronto before the move to Israel (if it ever happens) just so I can get that out of the way.

So now my quandary is whether to move to Mx before moving to Israel (so I can stay sane, as Panama is TERRIBLE), or just tough it out & then move to Israel. I've already toughed it out & the stress is terrible for me here,

I have to have a more stable income before making the HUGE move, not to mention I haven't submitted my application yet b/c you only have one year, & my situation is kind of complex. It's not a 1-2-3 she gets all her benefits" type of deal.

Thanks & I hope everyone is well.


Michelle


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## Harrypotter1

sensualspirit said:


> Oh, so you are saying that there are well mannered Israelis then? Or are you talking about people who made Aliya?
> 
> I was referring to Sabras thru & thru.
> 
> It's not just the manners, it's the "I am going to tell you what to do b/c I want to run your life since I know more than you & you have no right to run your own life." attitude.
> 
> LOL, I remember one guy stating that when he moved to Israel, all the mothers in the park would tell him how to raise his child.
> 
> That's not really an Israeli trait, moreso a Jewish one & one I don't like.
> 
> I stopped allowing this kind of behavior from people a long time ago. I'm my own person & I'll do whatever I want with my life whether you agree with it or not.
> 
> Didn't know about the doctors. That's interesting.
> 
> How are the dentists there?
> 
> Thanks & Happy New Year
> 
> 
> Michal😎
> 
> I'm impress with your curiosity...
> I was born in Israel and currently on a sabatical year back in the county.
> I live in the uk.
> Israel and the Israelis are top destination that is if you avoid the conflict zones, crime riddle areas, poor neighborhoods and not looking to be employed.
> Apart from the above you'll find that the authorities are gathering alot of information about you and no confidentiality given, infact, the autoritaries activly selling information to employers about you.
> Israel is extremly expensive and if you have low income stay away. Health insurance; is privet and if you start working you are denied health insurance for six months ( during covid!)or you can pay 12000 sh over to bituach leumi bay that time back(You'll need to arrange travel insurance for 6 months). Support is very difficult to get from the autorities, there is no working relationship between government bodies so every application will require you to transelate(400sh) and provide original certificats eve if you have submitted them in the past.
> The pension and help "if you get recognised" is often less then 50% compare to the uk, and come with conditions you may prefer not to get into...
> Weather is top and nice panorama, food is delicious but hygien is poor and no health and safety whatsoever.
> The problems you'll face if you'll decide to come to live in Israel are going to be in relation to; employment and or to goverment abuse (also relate to work as by not recognising qualifications and in respect of excessive working hours in contracts, and dodgy discreminative publications army service ec).
> 
> 😝🤜


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## Eliora

It is good that you write honestly of your experiences so others who may be considering this difficult relocation will not attempt it unless they have good friends, a reb or family there to help them through it.


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## Bevdeforges

This thread is a good 8 years old. I suspect it may be time to close it out and perhaps start up a new thread if there is further interest.


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