# American college student



## PattiM

My 20 year old son is considering spending the summer working in Cairo. Would that be safe? Does anyone have suggestions on where to live, places to avoid, general good advice. He is traveling alone.


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## expatagogo

No offense and not specific to you, but how on earth does one, anyone, pick a place on the planet and say, "I'm just going to show up, find a job, work illegally, and that's a-okay"?

Really?

Egypt is like anywhere else in that there are laws and regulations that govern foreigners working. Fifteen dollars (US) will get him a 30-day tourist visa at the airport. It's possible, but not guaranteed, he could extend his tourist visa for two more months. Regardless, working on a tourist visa is _illegal_.


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## MaidenScotland

Hello and welcome to the forum

I am guessing you are not getting news as to what is happening right now here in Egypt.. 

Will this still be going in the summer.. it could finish tomorrow and then start up again your son arrives. 
Will he be safe, he would probably die in a RTA before being shot in the city.

American is not the most popular of nationality at the moment many believe the MB is USA backed, yes he will meet people who don't care he is American but then again he might just meet someone who does care and cares greatly.

More to the point..you would need to fund his stay, he cannot work unless he has a work permit and an employer provides that at great cost so no one is going to provide a permit for a summer job. 

The world is a huge place tell your son to go somewhere else, it will save you the 24/7 worry about him if he ever gets here..

Maiden


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## Biffy

But more to the point - why on earth would anyone pick what is a hotspot - with high ani-western / amercian feeling - and decide to go live there?

And as for get a job- have a fab. summer earning 1,000 le a month - with no way to complain because you are working illegally.

I don't understand the thinking.


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## Eco-Mariner

Patti... 
You and your son must be blind, deaf and dumb not to know what is going on in Cairo and all over Egypt right now !!!!!


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## mamasue

Patti.... as the others have so rightly said....there's a whole world out there....
Why on Earth would he go to a politically unstable(VERY UNSTABLE) place to work, illegally, for peanuts, just to get ripped off, and possibly be in danger??
There are far nicer places to go!
If he MUST go to Egypt, the Red Sea resorts are a slightly better option...but not much better!


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## Biffy

but still all the above apply.
especially the part about working illegally and getting paid peanuts.


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## PattiM

*Reply to all*

WOW...guess I asked for that! He has an unpaid internship. Why Egypt? He is majoring International Studies - 5th semester of Arabic. Why? I wish I knew.... But it is his desire. No, I'm not deaf, dumb or blind and scour the news every day ..... So many kids in the US are interested in this region and many are pursuing opportunities. I wanted to hear from people in the middle of it all. Sorry to offend.


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## canuck2010

Well you did leave out some important details! The school he is interning with should provide safe accommodation in Cairo. He'll also have colleagues to show him around ect... As long as he does not take part or go near any protests he'll be just fine.


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## txlstewart

There are other Arabic speaking countries to choose from. I find it appalling that his school has such little regard for his personal safety. Rethink this idea, please. His life is worth more....


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## PattiM

His internship is with a company - not his school.


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## Homeless

PattiM said:


> WOW...guess I asked for that! He has an unpaid internship. Why Egypt? He is majoring International Studies - 5th semester of Arabic. Why? I wish I knew.... But it is his desire. No, I'm not deaf, dumb or blind and scour the news every day ..... So many kids in the US are interested in this region and many are pursuing opportunities. I wanted to hear from people in the middle of it all. Sorry to offend.


Your post is not in any way offensive.
Cairo and Egypt has been, is and will continue to be for the foreseeable future volatile. The American University branch in Cairo is right where the action is. There's another campus that is in the desert somewhere (fifth district I think) that is "safer" for the time being. 
The problem is when it blows up no one will be safe. Not Egyptians and certainly not foreigners.
I hear Amman is popular with foreign students and right now it looks more stable.

Some foreigners be they students or professionals do well in cairo and manage to stay safe. 

I personally would warn anyone against going to Egypt.


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## Gounie

Homeless said:


> The American University branch in Cairo is right where the action is. There's another campus that is in the desert somewhere (fifth district I think) that is "safer" for the time being.


El Gouna Center

The John D. Gerhart Field Station in El Gouna is a small satellite campus located in downtown El Gouna. Its two main goals are to conduct environmental, marine, and desert ecology research and offer continuing education courses in languages, business and IT to the Red Sea Community. Other continuing education programs being planned include a lecture series, performances, book and art exhibits. El Gouna campus was made possible through a generous gift from Mr. Samih Sawiris. It commemorates the memory of AUC's late President John D. Gerhart.


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## MaidenScotland

canuck2010 said:


> Well you did leave out some important details! The school he is interning with should provide safe accommodation in Cairo. He'll also have colleagues to show him around ect... As long as he does not take part or go near any protests he'll be just fine.




yep sure did, it is a completely different scenario now.


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> yep sure did, it is a completely different scenario now.


Just shows how people should never jump to conclusions.....


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## Eco-Mariner

Just shows you how naive some people are.


Eco-Mariner.


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## mamasue

If he's going to Egypt to learn Arabic.... he'd probably be better going to somewhere like the Emirates.
Egyptian colloquial Arabic is totally different to High Arabic ('normal Arabic') ...
I lived in both Egypt and Dubai,, and I can tell you.... it's different!

Egypt has changed so much in the last 2 years, as Maiden can tell you.
I definitely wouldn't want my child to go there right now.....but it seems like you don't want the truth, just the good stuff.

Sorry, I just think as a parent, I'd be worrying every day if a naïve 20 year old went to Egypt now....!!


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## hurghadapat

mamasue said:


> If he's going to Egypt to learn Arabic.... he'd probably be better going to somewhere like the Emirates.
> Egyptian colloquial Arabic is totally different to High Arabic ('normal Arabic') ...
> I lived in both Egypt and Dubai,, and I can tell you.... it's different!
> 
> Egypt has changed so much in the last 2 years, as Maiden can tell you.
> I definitely wouldn't want my child to go there right now.....but it seems like you don't want the truth, just the good stuff.
> 
> Sorry, I just think as a parent, I'd be worrying every day if a naïve 20 year old went to Egypt now....!!


Woooow....come on.. Patti came on here just for general advice about her son coming to Cairo....not to be asked is she blind dumb and deaf or told that that her son would be working illegally or that he is nieve....Like all parents she is concerned about her son but at 20yrs old he is old enough to make his own decisions and at least he is doing it through an internship which is a lot more sensible than most people of his age who come to Egypt because they have met the love of their life.At his age life is an open door and as long as he is sensible and takes care he will survive the experience and hopefully gain from it.


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## expatagogo

hurghadapat said:


> Woooow....come on.. Patti came on here just for general advice about her son coming to Cairo....not to be asked is she blind dumb and deaf or told that that her son would be working illegally or that he is nieve....Like all parents she is concerned about her son but at 20yrs old he is old enough to make his own decisions and at least he is doing it through an internship which is a lot more sensible than most people of his age who come to Egypt because they have met the love of their life.At his age life is an open door and as long as he is sensible and takes care he will survive the experience and hopefully gain from it.


Patti got the answers to the questions she asked.


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## hurghadapat

expatagogo said:


> Patti got the answers to the questions she asked.


Really....i don't see many polite answers to her questions.


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## mamasue

hurghadapat said:


> Really....i don't see many polite answers to her questions.



Pat, I don't think my answer's rude...just realistic.
My answers are based on fact, to the best of my knowledge, oh....and my opinion!

Patti...I apologise if I came over as rude.... it wasn't my intention.


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## alexvw

I so agree with Hurghadapat. I love this forum for the valuable information it gives, I find it incredible arrogant in how answers are written. Get your act together, people!

Patti, I guess you have figured that Cairo is not the safest place in the world right now. My personal opinion is that it's still very safe, if you are sensible enough about your habits and whereabouts. If your son has good judgement on that, I think he'd be ok, but if there are equal options, I personally may opt for a different country.

All the best,
Alex


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## Eco-Mariner

Rude or just plain helpful, this Ex-Pat forum has years of such posts with brilliant advice so one would think potential visitors would do the research first from last two year's posts, then they can still send a kid to the wolves if they don't believe us.
Egypt is the highlight of every TV and media at the moment. Surely it can't be ignored.


Eco-Mariner.


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## jemiljan

alexvw said:


> I so agree with Hurghadapat. I love this forum for the valuable information it gives, I find it incredible arrogant in how answers are written. Get your act together, people!
> 
> Patti, I guess you have figured that Cairo is not the safest place in the world right now. My personal opinion is that it's still very safe, if you are sensible enough about your habits and whereabouts. If your son has good judgement on that, I think he'd be ok, but if there are equal options, I personally may opt for a different country.
> 
> All the best,
> Alex


Yeah, there is certainly a range of views, ranging from some great, helpful advice from truly nice people, to the epitome of bitter, sour, jaded expats who don't really want to be here in the first place (and whom I often find don't know the language and don't really associate with Egyptians, beyond the grocers and "the help"). 

Patti, I would add that your son should inquire with the company just how far they are willing to go to help him and ensure his safety, and make sure that everything is above board. Some questions to ask:

1) Are they providing for his housing, and offering some sort of per diem? Is it in foreign currency or Egyptian pounds? With the current inflation, I would insist on foreign currency.

2) Where is this company located? Is it in Cairo? Outside of Cairo? That can make an enormous difference in and of itself.

3) What are the duties? Sitting at a computer in an air conditioned office? Or field work? I would have some very tough questions about the latter, but I do a certain amount of field work, and you just have to learn how to go with the flow. 

4) Is the housing nearby to work? If not, will they arrange transportation?

5) Do they have any contingency plans in case of an emergency? If so, what are they? Are they prepared to cover the cost?

6) I ardently disagree with the comment that one will 'only use' Masri (Egyptian Colloquial) dialect here. The media offers plenty of opportunities to use Fusha (Modern Standard). My own office employs a blend of both, as when you get into translation, writing, editing, and and discussion of anything textual, Fusha is inescapable. If anything, I find that sort of attitude incredibly "naive", especially from an expat.

My company just hosted an intern for several months from Europe, and another one from the US who is here primarily for their dissertation research. I know similar folks here for study opportunities from the UK too. All have studied Arabic at an advanced level before coming here, they have all lived in Cairo, and they have generally found the experience very rewarding, even despite the situation. The fact is that it all depends on what his professional goals all, and whether what he'll be doing best meets those goals. Some activities are even easier than normal, since there are so few people and bargains to be had. 

The places that the people I know are working/studying at have generally gone out of their way to make sure they are as comfortable and safe as possible. So please take what others are saying with a grain of salt. The experience can still be really rewarding professionally. I know that if I hadn't come first here as a student, I wouldn't have gotten the job I have now (and I'm well paid and absolutely love it). Others I know work for private sector international companies, or government sector like the foreign service. Believe me, I know a number of employers who will hire someone who knows how to handle adverse situations.

So, to each their own...


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## PattiM

Thank you for all the good information. I wish I could still make these kinds of decisions for him, but then he wouldn't leave the block. :
It is great that I can share viewpoints from people in the country.


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## Buffy7

Hi Patti! Welcome to the forum..
I have to agree with Hurgadapat, I believe people who live here are just a little tense about the situation - I didn't see many polite responses either.
You clearly understand what the circumstances in Egypt are now; and the company your son is going to work with should and hopefully will be able to provide information about 'safe' areas and what to do/what not to do etc.
My friend has recently come to visit with an American passport, on a tourist visa, and she has had no issues at the airport or elsewhere - she is staying at one of the hotels in Heliopolis. 
As others have said, your son is old enough to make an informed decision..I hope you too have gathered a little more information from some of these responses, regardless of the tone.
I wish you and your son the best of luck - don't hesitate to ask for more advice if needed!


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## Sonrisa

i think a 20 years old bloke, with no kids to worry about, spending the summer months here as a learning experience, study work or whatever it is that brings him here, will be just fine. 

Things are very volatile at the moment, so he will just need to take precautions.


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## fastfalco382

Sorry to interject but I'm also a 20-year old American college student looking to do an internship in Cairo. I understand that its incredibly unstable after looking at many of your posts, but can the users of expatforum go into detail about specific areas and etc rather than just telling people that they're idiots?

I'll be interning in Dokii for 3-6 weeks and teaching English. Housing accomodations are with two or three other American teachers who have been there full-time and live 5 minutes from the office. Estimated rent is $220/mo which seems to be a little pricey judging that its shared (?) and its an unpaid internship.

I spent last summer in rural Kenya and enjoyed it although theres absolutely no comparison in terms of danger aside from the typical shady strangers trying to jack you and absolutely not walking around anywhere at night. Looking to spend some time there and then spend the month or so in Cairo. I spent a couple of hours in Cairo visiting the pyramids or whatever during the plane pit-stop on the way to Kenya last year and found the city fascinating so that is my logic for spending my time here.

Let me know whats good. Thanks.


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## Sonrisa

fastfalco382 said:


> Sorry to interject but I'm also a 20-year old American college student looking to do an internship in Cairo. I understand that its incredibly unstable after looking at many of your posts, but can the users of expatforum go into detail about specific areas and etc rather than just telling people that they're idiots?
> 
> I'll be interning in Dokii for 3-6 weeks and teaching English. Housing accomodations are with two or three other American teachers who have been there full-time and live 5 minutes from the office. Estimated rent is $220/mo which seems to be a little pricey judging that its shared (?) and its an unpaid internship.
> 
> I spent last summer in rural Kenya and enjoyed it although theres absolutely no comparison in terms of danger aside from the typical shady strangers trying to jack you and absolutely not walking around anywhere at night. Looking to spend some time there and then spend the month or so in Cairo. I spent a couple of hours in Cairo visiting the pyramids or whatever during the plane pit-stop on the way to Kenya last year and found the city fascinating so that is my logic for spending my time here.
> 
> Let me know whats good. Thanks.


Are you male or female?


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## fastfalco382

Asian-American Male.


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## Sonrisa

You will be fine, avoid demonstration or just places where there are too many people in general. Avoid looking like a clueless american tourist and that would stop people from rpping you off or constantly pestering you.

A summer here teaching english is bound to be an eye opening, enriching experience. Try to visit as many things are posible. Be cAreful while crossing the roads. Never discuss politics or religion with anyone. Wash everything you put in your mouth.


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## fastfalco382

Awesome. Thank you. Hope other users on the forum agree with you


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## MaidenScotland

Dokki is a very busy place you cannot get away from people.. 
Know your surroundings, walk with a purpose and with confidence. 
Do not discuss religion or politics and if asked just say it is my business..but it will be hard as everyone talks politics now. 
Rental here is not cheap despite many many empty properties, Egyptian thinking is I had no one take the place last year so I need to double the rent this year to make up what I lost last. 
Learn your Arabic numbers so that you can read the prices. 
Carry small notes and coins.
Only carry what you need for that outing
Do not wear an expensive watch 
Drink lots of bottled water. 
have a hep vaccine before you arrive plus I would make sure your tetanus is valid. 
Plead poverty to every Egyptian you meet. 
Carry a copy of your passport
Register at the USA embassy 
Follow your flatmates advice.


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## fastfalco382

Thank you for the advice. What do you mean by registering at the us embassy? How much do you estimate for costs for the month? Looking at some other threads the prices look fairly similar to the us in most regards but water appears much cheaper thankfully.


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## MaidenScotland

fastfalco382 said:


> Thank you for the advice. What do you mean by registering at the us embassy? How much do you estimate for costs for the month? Looking at some other threads the prices look fairly similar to the us in most regards but water appears much cheaper thankfully.




Once you arrive you can register on line with your embassy, that lets them know that you are in the country, where you are living and your next of kin. 


Ohh no good asking me how much for a month.. I need a small fortune as I do not believe in skimping in what I want. 
Water is cheap but never ever drink from the fountains that are available outside,


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## txlstewart

That's a bit high for your rent.


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## fastfalco382

What do you think is reasonable for rent?

And for the visa, I should get a work visa or a tourist visa? I'm not working for pay -- its more of a volunteer thing no?


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## MaidenScotland

fastfalco382 said:


> What do you think is reasonable for rent?
> 
> And for the visa, I should get a work visa or a tourist visa? I'm not working for pay -- its more of a volunteer thing no?




You cannot get a work permit.. you need a job and your employer has to apply for it, it is expensive and difficult to get, I am not sure what voluntary employment involves, check out the Egypt embassy page for visa information


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## jemiljan

fastfalco382 said:


> What do you think is reasonable for rent?
> 
> And for the visa, I should get a work visa or a tourist visa? I'm not working for pay -- its more of a volunteer thing no?


If you're an intern, the company may not want to go through the hassle of obtaining a work visa for you, as it is a very complicated process. Considering the current political situation, they should be more forthcoming with you and inform you as to precisely what you will need to do. If they don't do that, then I would be hear alarm bells going off and might look for another internship where the staff appreciate their interns and are more responsive to their needs.

*To obtain a work visa:* First you must obtain an official letter of experience. This is a letter drafted by someone you have worked for that declares that you have expertise in X field. This letter must be written on official letterhead (preferably watermarked) of the organisation, signed by the person in the presence of a notary public, after which it is notarised. Then the letter must be taken to the local county or provincial magistrate's office (In the US, this is the County Clerk of Court), and obtain an apostille certifying that the notary is in fact a registered notary. Then the letter must be taken or mailed to State Department (or Foreign Ministry in other countries), and they will certify that the county magistrate is valid. Finally, the letter must be taken or sent to the Egyptian embassy for their validation. Then you send the letter to your employer via some sort of express or certified mail to ensure it gets there, and they will give it to their lawyer to process the work visa application. They couldn't actually begin the application until I had arrived in person (I used a tourist visa to enter) and I turned over my passport for the visa processing.

Bear in mind that there are fees associated with each stage. In my case back in 2011, I think I paid just over $100. In fact, I had to go through the entire process twice, as another colleague had a problem getting their visa, so the lawyer deemed that one word had to be changed. I successfully got my first 6 month work visa within a few weeks, and then it was renewed for another 6 months thereafter. After your first year is completed, you will be able to obtain a 1-year visa. 

Also note that during the visa processing and renewal periods, the lawyer takes my passport away and I am unable to leave the country, or even travel to many locations outside of Cairo, due to security check points. The renewal cannot begin any sooner than 30 days before the current expiry date and takes a minimum of 23 working days to process. I joked with the lawyer that they are probably not processing so many work visas right now, but it goes through verification and approval by 4 different ministries. My security clearance took even longer- over 6 months- during which time I wasn't allowed to access certain restricted areas in government buildings. 

I'm not sure how this process compares to residency visas for expats who have property here. Anyone care to comment? Apparently you can go on automatic renewal after 5 years...


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## MaidenScotland

Everything is changing daily.. 

Last night at church there were very few Filipinos as they had left due to the fact their employers could not obtain work permits for them,


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## Qsw

fastfalco382 said:


> Awesome. Thank you. Hope other users on the forum agree with you


I think the advice you've received has been great. As long as you stay alert, and carry change, I think you'll be able to minimize your bad experiences and hopefully have a good experience in Egypt. Always ask how much a service costs before making use of it, and avoid secluded streets.


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## mrtravelman

I believe in being realistic, keeping your eyes open, etc. But these long time expats who don't have any professional interest in Egypt are just being rude, unhelpful and probably are out of touch with reality and Egyptians and sit on this forum all day. In my experience with young Americans in Egypt, and I have a lot of experience in this, the fact that the media is so negative in the US means that only the most prepared, most educated, most culturally open-minded and most savvy come to Egypt, unlike expats from Europe who like the sun and maybe fell in love with a man and sell up and fly out. It is an unprecedented opportunity for them to see history in the making. As long as the organization with whom he will be working provides some sort of support and he seeks and listens to the guidance of those he works with, he should be fine, and probably thrive better than those bitter people telling him not to come. No, Egypt, is not the country it was 2.5 years ago but then it never really was as secure as Mubarak wanted everyone to believe in the first place. But I know many young Americans who have started off in Egypt at his age and gone on to great careers as a result of being in the right place at the right time, and that is namely Cairo.


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## hurghadapat

But these long time expats who don't have any professional interest in Egypt are just being rude, unhelpful and probably are out of touch with reality and Egyptians and sit on this forum all day.


I think the only person being rude is you by making such a statement as the above one....after all how do you have any idea at all what the people on this forum do in Egypt.Many of them are people who have been employed by the companies that they work for because they are experts in the jobs they do and i would hardly think they have time to sit on the forum all day....but even if they do then that is their business.


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## jemiljan

fastfalco382 said:


> Sorry to interject but I'm also a 20-year old American college student looking to do an internship in Cairo. I understand that its incredibly unstable after looking at many of your posts, but can the users of expatforum go into detail about specific areas and etc rather than just telling people that they're idiots?
> 
> I'll be interning in Dokii for 3-6 weeks and teaching English. Housing accomodations are with two or three other American teachers who have been there full-time and live 5 minutes from the office. Estimated rent is $220/mo which seems to be a little pricey judging that its shared (?) and its an unpaid internship.


If you have an academic affiliation, I highly recommend posting a query for shared housing on the CairoScholars list. This is not an easy list to join, as you have to fill out a lengthy query form, but once you're in, you're in. It is moderated, but the rules are a little bit less stringent than for this forum (i.e., people can advertise things without having to pay for it)

Many people post queries for housing- even temporary- and also many people post when rooms become available. Shared rooms are often posted for 1000-1500 LE. So $220 is actually the higher end. Make sure to ask for images and a list of features. If you go with that place, make sure to ask if that includes all utilities and internet service (and what kind/company/speed)- or not- and other costs like paying the Bawab.


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## expatagogo

jemiljan said:


> and other costs like paying the Bawab.


Make sure your building has a bawab. They are priceless.

Also, about elevators, do not move into a building that only has one elevator because if it's out, you're climbing those stairs.


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## paolop

hurghadapat said:


> But these long time expats who don't have any professional interest in Egypt are just being rude, unhelpful and probably are out of touch with reality and Egyptians and sit on this forum all day.
> 
> I think the only person being rude is you by making such a statement as the above one....after all how do you have any idea at all what the people on this forum do in Egypt.Many of them are people who have been employed by the companies that they work for because they are experts in the jobs they do and i would hardly think they have time to sit on the forum all day....but even if they do then that is their business.


Well said!


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## fastfalco382

Wow thank you for the helpful responses.

My whole NGO internship turns out to be a bit of a sham -- not an NGO but simply a language school looking for an unpaid teacher. Would anyone know if finding a temp job as an english teacher in Cairo would be tough? I am talking to someone about this and he said there are a good # of jobs around. I am also considering this: cawu.org -- Any experience with this?

Yeah I've actually heard about the Cairo Scholars thing! Again, my contact told me it was a good resource and told me to use that + craigslist to find housing. I didn't know it was so difficult to get in the list, and I actually sent a very succinct response so I hope that I will be accepted anyway.

You guys have been great!


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## txlstewart

You can, but beware. The first school I taught at (I was hired at a reputable recruitment fair in London) was crap--photocopied textbooks, NO toilet paper!!!!, and they treated the few foreign teachers horribly. 

I was lucky enough to find a position at a proper school within 2 months 

To get a work permit, you have to have original copies of your diplomas which have to be authenticated by the Egyptian embassy in your home country. There was a language comprehension issue with the one in Houston--they had no idea what I needed. it's a lot of work to get the proper documentation--and the school will keep it and may not want to return it to you. I had to pay a ransom to get mine back--$1,000 USD. Shameful!


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