# Fiance Visa lots of questions



## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Hi all,

I am starting the process of applying for a fiance visa, from northern Ireland, my fiance is from Kampala Uganda, we have been together for 8 months. After having a meeting with a immigration lawyer,and reading lots of websites, this forum has been by far the most helpful. I would like to run the checklist and hopefully answer any questions I may have.


Applicant:
VAF4A Application Form
VAF4A Appendix 2
Current passport
2 UK-sized passport photos
Flight Itinerary
CEFR level A1 

Anything else that may be required?

Sponsor:
Copy of Sponsor Passport Bio Data Page
Cover Letter from sponsor for applicant - what should the letter state exactly?

6 months payslip - certified by employer as I receive them by email
P60 which confirms I earned over £18600 between 2014-2015
Letter from my employer confirming my income.
Online bank statement certified by my bank

Tenancy agreement 
Letter from my landlord confirming my tenancy will cover the 6 month period
Letter from housing association confirming I am providing suitable accommodation 
Couple of utility bills


Receipt of engagement ring - Is that enough to prove engagement ?
Planned wedding location - Is anything else needed to prove our intent to wed
Photos for duration of relationship - This is tricky we have only spent 1 month together in Kampala, we have about 300 photos together do we need to provide photos from other points of our relationship or will this be enough ?
My flight booking which cover my time in Kampala
Evidence of contact - Have 8 months of video chat logs on skype


If there is anything else required, I would really be grateful for any help or advise that can be offered.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

She needs TB test. 
Your fiancée applies in Uganda, first online, pays the fees, then books biometric appointment, takes her documents including printed out application and Appendix 2 to the appointment and submit after giving her biometrics. 
Provisional booking for the ceremony, or reception will help. 
No more than 10-15 photos.
Skype logs, no more than 10-15 pages. 
You should enclose letter each from applicant and sponsor. Generally a brief rundown on relationship, factual, why you have chosen to settle together in UK (NI), and any factors that you believe make your relationship strong and durable, such as admired personality traits, shared belief, philosophy, interest etc.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thank you Joppa really appreciate your help, my fiance will also need to take the CEFR level A1 test in Kampala. Do you know much about the test for example cost or duration, also the fact that we have only been together for 8 month hinder our chances in any way. I am also considering bringing her over on a tourist visa first, just to ensure she likes the UK, and would be happy to stay here long term. would you know anything about this process for example I read she will need to show proof she can support her self while on this visa, again would I be able to provide this on her behalf.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Plus most importantly she can demonstrate strong ties in Uganda that will force her to return home and not overstay. Such as a job (letter from her boss stating her job and when she is expected back), a course she has to return to, investment or business interest or family responsibility (e.g. caring for a relative). While visiting each other's country is good and shows commitment and seriousness of intent, applying for visit visa for Ugandans isn't easy (lots of scams unfortunately). I know nothing about that particular English test, but if she is a competent speaker, she should have nothing to worry about. A1 is quite basic.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thx Joppa, She is unable to get a letter from her employer at the moment as the company she works for is having land disputes with the government I don't think she has any investments as well. DO you know anyone that can offer any advice on the visit visa process or if any BM can help it would be greatly appreciated. Also I take it with the fiance visa she would not need to prove her intent to return.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can try registered immigration advisors, but service you get and the fees they charge vary greatly.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Would that be a immigration adviser based in the UK or Kampala,


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Best to get one in UK.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Found one in my town which is handy, thx for your help


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

After talking with my fiancee we have decided to try for the general visit visa first. The issue we still have is proving her intent to return to Uganda before the visa expires. The reason we want to choose this option is to see if she likes staying in the UK, meet my family and to find out if we can live together well as a couple for a 6 month period it seems like a more resoposnible option. The problem we have is she became unemployed, in December, and does not use a bank account so cannot prove her savings, she also has no children, owns no land or business, and does not belong to any society which makes it very difficult to prove her intent to return. Do u think showing her rental agreement, proof she has paid her rent for the duration of her visit to the UK, and detailed letter from both of us confirming the reasons we applied for the general visa instead of the fiance visa as stated above and a return ticket would be enough to convince the UkBA. I have spoken to a localsolicitor, and citizens advice but still not getting a clear picture.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You won't get a clear advice as it all depends on how an ECO (visa officer) will look at her situation. Unfortunately, Ugandans don't have the best of reputations when it comes to complying with immigration rules so they tend to err on the side of caution when assessing applications. Perhaps she can find someone of standing, such as a local magistrate or MP, to write a letter stating that she is trustworthy and will not overstay, jeopardising her future legal stay in UK through marriage and settlement.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thx Joppa, 

Yes its not easy to choose the best course of action. Personally I think the fiancee Visa is the easier choice for us, but we still want to apply for the general visitor visa first, do you think being turned down for a general visitor visa would hinder our chances for a successful fiancee visa application.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Any visa refusal will make the next application more difficult. While it may not lead to an automatic denial, your case is likely to be scrutinised so will take longer to be processed.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thx Joppa, could you recommend a good visa company or lawyer than can review are application, to ensure it has a higher success rate. The though off getting turned down for both visas is a pretty horrible. I could really use some good advice from an expert on this, and the lawyer, and other sources I have used so far have not been much help.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, you can post your supporting documents and cover letter for your general visit visa application and ask for comments and criticism.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Applicant.

Passport 
2 passport size photos
Detailed letter explaining, her visit to the UK, history of our relationship, and the reason why she will return to Uganda
Letter from land lord plus 6 month recipes to show she has paid for her rent, until she returns to Uganda
Detailed letter showing all her family members, and address plus her relationship with them. 
Return tickets

Sponsor.


6 months bank statements certified by bank
6 months payslips, employment contract, and p60 certified by employer.
Tenancy agreement certified by landlord
Letter from landlord confirming , how long I have lived at the property , i am the sole occupant, and the accomandation is suitable for 2 people for the duration of the stay.
2 utility bills,
Photos of property
Photocopy of passport
Letter of invation, with details of the history of our releshonsip, confirmation how I will support my fiancee during the six months, declaring we have no intention to marry on the visitor visa, and the explaination provided before as to why she will return to Uganda

Proof of relationship..

15 photos together in Uganda
10 pages of Skype call logs
Copy of airlines tickets, for my trip to Uganda.

If you thinks it's a good idea to post my invation letter, I can do once I return from work later today.

Also a quick question as well, although I have been employed for the last 3 years at the Same company all employees, are employed through a recruitment agency. For things like pay slips letters, and employment contracts would it be ok if these items were supplied by them or do they directly have to come from my employer,


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, post your cover letter as well.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Kind of a first draft, hope its ok

Dear entry clearance officer,


This is my invitation letter, to invite my fiancee, XXXXXXX to stay with me in the United Kingdom, for the duration of six months, on a visitor visa. I will be acting as XXXXXX sponsor during this visit, and will provide accommodation, and will cover all financial costs, including all necessary medical, and travel insurance policies, so XXXXX will not require access to any form off UK public funds. 


As an engaged couple me, and my partner had a difficult decision, regarding what type of visa application we should apply for, The visitor visa, or fiancee settlement visa. As a responsible couple, we decided the best course of action would be to apply for the visitor visa. There are many reasons behind this decision, my partner has never traveled outside her home country before, we have never, lived together longer than a four week period, and are also not sure if XXXXX would adapt well to UK culture, weather, or would not get homesick, and want to return to her friends, and family back home. Even though we know it will be more difficult to show my partner strong ties to her home country, for example she has been unemployed for the last six month, she does not have a bank account, as she has always been paid cash in hand, owns no property, and has no dependents, thus making it more difficult to have this type of application approved. We hope a return ticket, a letter from her landlord plus receipts to show, the rent has been paid on her accommodation for the six month whilst outside the UK, plus a letter providing the names, and address of my partners immediate family will be enough to satisfy this application. Once me, and my partner have proven that we can have a sustainable relationship in UK, are next course of action upon my partners return to Uganda will be to apply for the fiancee settlement visa. I hope I have provided, enough compelling evidence along with letter to show are intent, and that we have demonstrated enough proof to show not only that I will l be able to provide for my partner without gaining access to public funds, but that we will both abide by all rules , requirements, and laws set out by the UK boarder agency, and UK government.


Regards


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pretty good. Watch out for some grammatical and spelling errors, e.g. not 'me and my partner' but 'my partner and I'. 
Whether it will achieve the desired objective in another matter, as Home Office is getting much stricter in applying the rules, and any hint of overstay or illegal work (such as 'unemployed for 6 months') will be seized upon. Lack of strong ties at home is your major weakness, and I don't know if you have addressed this issue to their satisfaction. Only time will tell.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thx Joppa, yes I'm using a very basic version of word on my PC, that does not have UK spelling or grammar check on it, but its only I rough draft. I do agree with you on the fact they use any way possible to rejected these applications based on what I have seen from rejection letters. I am planning to discuss it with a visa company tomorrow, but if they cannot provide any solution to this problem then we will have to apply for the fiancee visa. 

One other quick questions it's got to do with my pay, last tax years I earned £19700, and since then I have had a pay increase of £1 week days and £.50 extra on weekends. But when I calculate the pay from my last 6 months payslips it woks out at £9100, which is slightly below the threshold, the reason for this I took a weeks unpaid leave to spend an extra week with my fiancee in Uganda, plus I had another weeks sickness as well. Well my P60, a covering letter from my employer confirming my earnings, plus a letter from me be be enough to cover the shortfall.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you can apply under Cat B, provided in the last 12 months (calendar months) you have earned at least £18,600 (including your unpaid leave and sick leave), then you will meet the requirement. Or wait until the lower payslips drop out of equation and apply under Cat A.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

On Cat B do you need to provided, 12 months worth of payslips with your P60


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

I have just spoken with 2 separate companies, visalawyersuk.com, and ukimagrationlawyersuk.com. Both have basically advised the same thing. That there lawyers will basically back up my statements stating that we more than meet the requirement of the fiancee visa, so there is no reason for my partner to over stay her visa, they said they will also submit other cases as examples were applications with the same circumstance have been successful, so the home office cannot raise any objections. They both told me they cannot guarantee the visa, but said there will be a very high chance it will get accepted. The first company would charge £500, the second £950. Both got good reviews on Google, but wondered if you had any thoughts on the matter.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> I have just spoken with 2 separate companies, visalawyersuk.com, and ukimagrationlawyersuk.com. Both have basically advised the same thing. That there lawyers will basically back up my statements stating that we more than meet the requirement of the fiancee visa, so there is no reason for my partner to over stay her visa, they said they will also submit other cases as examples were applications with the same circumstance have been successful, so the home office cannot raise any objections. They both told me they cannot guarantee the visa, but said there will be a very high chance it will get accepted. The first company would charge £500, the second £950. Both got good reviews on Google, but wondered if you had any thoughts on the matter.


In an earlier post you said you were applying for a visitor visa. Now you are applying for a fiance visa? Which is it? 

They have very different intentions for remaining in the UK and therefore require more documentation than you submitted in your post earlier.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

As stated in the earlier post our original plan was to apply for the fiancee visa, but decided on the general visa to begin with, the reasons are stated in earlier posts, do you have any experience in dealing with general visitor visas?


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Who do you mean has very different intentions?


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> Who do you mean has very different intentions?


Well, the visitor visa means that the _visitor_ will be leaving the country at end of visit; a fiance visa means the fiance is entering the UK _with intention of getting married and remaining. 
_
Totally different situation.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Yes I do understand that, based on our circumstances we would have a much better chance of getting the fiancee visa, but decided to go with the general visa instead. That company said they could put of a fight with the home office, and said they can use other examples were people have been accepted under the same conditions. The lawyer would argue that my partner and I meet the criteria to settle in the UK, and they believe this is a strong enough argument for the visa to be accepted.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

So just to confirm, do you think what those visa lawyers told me is misleading?


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> So just to confirm, do you think what those visa lawyers told me is misleading?


What they are telling you is that they would process your application (fiance) and that there would be a good chance of success- however, they are not guaranteeing anything. The application might fail. This is not misleading. 

Initially you were going for a visitor visa since you have only been together for 8 months and have only spent one month of that together (in Uganda). She has never left her home country, has been unemployed since last December, has no investments, some family but no ties that you could say could not be severed if she decided to stay in the UK. In addition, you were sceptical about whether she would like living in the UK, weather, loss of family and, even, living with you.

I can see why the visa lawyers would want to go for the fiance visa - that one covers the intention of entering the UK, getting married and remaining. For this visa though you have to show intention to get married - provisional wedding bookings, details of purchases for wedding....do you have these?. It is also a much more expensive visa.

With the visitor visa you have to somehow prove that she will leave before the visa expires. Difficult with her situation.

You are probably going to be more successful with the fiance visa than the visitor visa. If, at the end of the day, you don't proceed with your relationship then she returns home and you have wasted a lot of money on the fiance visa, but better that than no visit at all ?? (only my personal opinion)


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

I do agree with everything you have said, and the plan was if the general visit visa is rejected then we would apply for the fiancee visa straight away. In my case its less about the money, and more about the other things stated, plus if she gets granted the visitor visa we can make the wedding arrangements together.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

A failed visa application followed by a fresh settlement visa application won't go down very well, and increases the chances of another refusal.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

The thing that concerns me, are these company's just providing me with this information but knowing full well it will be rejected, I watched a youtube video on one particular company were they told there customers, they could get them a visa to Canada even though it was impossible. They sent an undercover reporter pretending to have a certain profession, knowing under no circumstance would the Canadian government ever accept them, and these company's pretty much promised the visa. The company I wanted to go with told me today, that if it gets rejected it will not stop me getting the fiancee visa or have any impact. But maybe I am being paranoid, both company's have great reviews, and I cant find anything bad written about them


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> The thing that concerns me, are these company's just providing me with this information but knowing full well it will be rejected, I watched a youtube video on one particular company were they told there customers, they could get them a visa to Canada even though it was impossible. They sent an undercover reporter pretending to have a certain profession, knowing under no circumstance would the Canadian government ever accept them, and these company's pretty much promised the visa. The company I wanted to go with told me today, that if it gets rejected it will not stop me getting the fiancee visa or have any impact. But maybe I am being paranoid, both company's have great reviews, and I cant find anything bad written about them


What you should be asking yourself *and the visa company* is,

" if *I* have all the documentation, finances etc I need, for either the visitor or fiance visa, what is the visa company going to do for me which will give me a *much better chance *of the application succeeding"?

If nothing more than processing the application for you then you would be better off doing the application yourself.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Yeah they said the reason it will cost so much, is for the lawyer to mitigated the application with the home office so they cannot raise any arguments to rejected the application. If that's something they can do, I am not sure.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Don't believe a word. Having a professional advisor won't help if you are correctly turned down. Home Office employ their own lawyers to counter.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thx, I have discussed this with my partner, and based on the risk involved, we will apply for the fiancee based on the higher success rate,. Have another question if u don't mind, I am an agency based worker, and they have just emailed my employment contract over plus I have printed out six months worth of pay slips, and have my original p60, the problem I am having with them is they are refusing to write me any form of letter to certify my payslips or contract, what details is on the letter is exactly required from them so I can take it to there HR department, and argue my case


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Wondering if someone could help me, i am pretty close to gathering all documents, and letters to apply for the fiancee visa, There is still the issue with my recruitment agency. They will only state in the letter that I have continuous onoging temporay work, they are refusing to confirm my job position, salary,or length of employment. Do you think this will be enough to satisfy UK imagration ? The situation is starting to become very unpleasent, I had to get the company I work with involved, but as a temproay worker I don't think I have the legal right to purse this based on what I can see from the citizen advise beareu.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

No, that is not enough to confirm your employment.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Don't get me wrong I have a copy of my employment contract which dates back 3 years p60 and pay slips for the last 6 month, but its the financal confirmation from my employer that concerns me.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Apologies for asking so many question, I got the letter from my employer sorted out but I have only one thing left that's really bothering me, and that's the financial requirements I have been trying to make sense of cat A, and B. I have read loads of threads, and appendix fm but I am still not sure if I can qualify. If so what category I would fall under

I get paid every 2 weeks, and have been with the same employer for more than 3 years. My pay varies from month, to month for example I get paid more on weekends than I do on weekdays, and my pay is made up off bonus and overtime. my base rate salary can be anywhere from 16000-18720. Here is a break down off my yearly earnings

August - 919
September - 2234
October - 1478
November - 1643
December - 1968
January - 1332
February - 1433
March - 1638
April - 1576
May - 1414
June - 962
July 1380



Really hope you can help


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

So are you salaried or unsalaried? Do you have a base salary and then you are paid for overtime or commission? Are you paid hourly?


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Basically I am paid hourly £7.50 week days, £11.25 hours weekend, bonus is up to £300 per month bonus, overtime can be paid up to 3x my hourly base salary, I am not clear on what unsalaried means.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Salaried means you are paid the same no matter how many hours you work. Unsalaried means your pay varies depending on the hours you work.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Ok so I assume I would be considered unslaried then, how would that leave me for applying, I am I still eligible, if so what category do I apply under.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If the figures above are correct, you don't qualify under Category A or B.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> Basically I am paid hourly £7.50 week days, £11.25 hours weekend, bonus is up to £300 per month bonus, overtime can be paid up to 3x my hourly base salary, I am not clear on what unsalaried means.


It does not sound like you are salaried...... you are hourly paid. Your wages vary day to day, week to week, month to month

For Cat A (having been in company for 6 months or more)the following formula is used for un-salaried income:

Where the person is in non-salaried employment – the level of gross annual
employment income relied upon in the application will be the annual equivalent of the
person’s average gross monthly income from non-salaried employment in the 6 months prior to the date of application (where that employment was held throughout that period).
To calculate this annualised average for non-salaried employment in Category A the
following calculation should be used:
(Total gross income from employment held throughout the 6 month period, divided by
6) multiplied by 12 = Income from non-salaried employment that can be counted towards the financial requirement. 

The above it taken from paragraph 5.1.4 of the following document:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...pendix_FM_Annex_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf

If one takes your last 6 months of gross income - January 2015 to June 2015 and adds up the income for those 6 months it comes to 8403.00 GBP. Divided by 6 that comes to 1400.50; multiplied by 12 it comes to 16,806.60 GBP

Not enough to qualify for a spouse visa.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

That means I basically fall short by about £130 of the six month then, is there anyway you can justify it for example, I took 1 weeks unpaid leave to stay an extra week with my fiance I have plan ticket to prove that (It was basically the week we got engaged, and had not even read about the requirements. The other options I can think of is getting part time job to make up the shortfall, if so how long would I have to been employed there.

Another option I though about was to use my payslips from the mid January to mid July. I ready that payslips 28 days prior to the online application can be used, that would take me over the threshold, but also means I would have to submit my application within the next 10 days


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> That means I basically fall short by about £130 of the six month then, is there anyway you can justify it for example, I took 1 weeks unpaid leave to stay an extra week with my fiance I have plan ticket to prove that (It was basically the week we got engaged, and had not even read about the requirements. The other options I can think of is getting part time job to make up the shortfall, if so how long would I have to been employed there.
> 
> Another option I though about was to use my payslips from the mid January to mid July. I ready that payslips 28 days prior to the online application can be used, that would take me over the threshold, but also means I would have to submit my application within the next 10 days


There is no justifying your income - you either earn 18,600 GBP per annum or your application is refused.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Its pretty terrible how they work it though, I have earned more than the every year for the last 3 years, I just happen to take unpaid leave at the wrong time. The fact the they don't even give you the option to base it on 12 month, means it could potentially delay my application for another 5 month.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> Its pretty terrible how they work it though, I have earned more than the every year for the last 3 years, I just happen to take unpaid leave at the wrong time. The fact the they don't even give you the option to base it on 12 month, means it could potentially delay my application for another 5 month.


Apart from March and April 2015 you have not earned enough this year to make up anywhere near 18,600 per annum,


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

But when I add all my pay together for the last 6 months and multiple it by 2 the its very close to the £18600


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> But when I add all my pay together for the last 6 months and multiple it by 2 the its very close to the £18600


Read the formula I sent you. You add up the 6 months, then divide by 6 to get the *average* and then multiply by 12.

You can't just add up the 6 months and extrapolate that over 12 months by multiplying by 2. You don't earn the same each month - some months you only earned around 900 GBP. 

Over a 6 month period you need to be earning 1,550 GBP minimum *on average *each month.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> But when I add all my pay together for the last 6 months and multiple it by 2 the its very close to the £18600


Well first, close isn't good enough. Second, that's not how it works. If you're unsalaried for Category A you add up the last 6 months of pay slips, divide by 6 and multiply by 12.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Sorry its the way I read it correct I though you meant the 6 months in total divided by 6 multiplied by 12, not each month. Thats pretty much me screwed, cause even though every payslip for the last 3 years has been above that amount. My pay fluctuates to much to be able to qualify. Any one have any advice on applying through southern ireland


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Do you also have an Irish passport?


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

I am entitled to one


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

urbanvulture said:


> I am entitled to one


What good would having an Irish passport be for the poster? For immigration purposes his British passport would supercede the Irish one and he would still need to comply with British immigration.

Now if he were to move to anywhere else in the EU (including Ireland) and lived and worked there for a say, 12 months, with his fiance/wife then he could, potentially, apply for a family permit under EU rules.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Crawford said:


> What good would having an Irish passport be for the poster? For immigration purposes his British passport would supercede the Irish one and he would still need to comply with British immigration.
> 
> Now if he were to move to anywhere else in the EU (including Ireland) and lived and worked there for a say, 12 months, with his fiance/wife then he could, potentially, apply for a family permit under EU rules.


Which is why I asked. If he has Irish citizenship then he can't exercise treaty rights in Ireland to use Surinder Singh.


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Thx for your help, you have been a lot more help than those oisc trained, lawyers have been. I think my only option would be to get a second job that pays around £60 per week. If I get sick or anything I will need to cash in some paid leave to cover my losses.

Regards


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## urbanvulture (Jul 3, 2015)

Another option for me is to ask my employer to let me work an extra day, every week for the next 6 months to make up the short fall. Not sure if they would accept that though cause it would be considered overtime. Do you think I would be eligible?


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