# Feedback from people who have returned to SA?



## melb (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi,

I have recently started to consider moving back to SA mainly because my 13yr old son is not getting the good solid education and positive attitude to school/"work" that I hoped he would in this "land of opportunity". It wouldn't be a permanent move - just a few years until he has finished high school. Being close to family again would also be great!

A lot of the conversations on this forum are very negative, but I haven't come across any comments from someone who has recently returned to SA. 

I am very interested to hear from anyone who has moved back to SA from the UK in the last couple of years. Do you regret the move? What do you think of a SA matric vs a UK A level school qualification? What is your opinion of a short term repatriation?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

melb said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am very interested to hear from anyone who has moved back to SA from the UK in the last couple of years. Do you regret the move? What do you think of a SA matric vs a UK A level school qualification? What is your opinion of a short term repatriation?


A level education is of a higher standard than Matric. I think you are better off moving schools in England as the level of education in the UK is by far superior than South Africa (or even Australia for that matter).


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Halo said:


> A level education is of a higher standard than Matric. I think you are better off moving schools in England as the level of education in the UK is by far superior than South Africa (or even Australia for that matter).


Lol ... So not true. Private South African schools are of a much higher level education but especially disipline. Even the very good public high schools are better. A friend of mine's child moved to the Uk and he jumped 2 grades when entering school there!

Back to your main question, i left the Uk to come back to S.A , didnt regret it one bit. Im not in S.A now but thats got nothing to do with the country itself, i just had a better opportunity elsewhere. I suppose it all boils down to how much you enjoy life in the Uk ...


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> Lol ... So not true. Private South African schools are of a much higher level education but especially disipline. Even the very good public high schools are better. A friend of mine's child moved to the Uk and he jumped 2 grades when entering school there!
> 
> Back to your main question, i left the Uk to come back to S.A , didnt regret it one bit. Im not in S.A now but thats got nothing to do with the country itself, i just had a better opportunity elsewhere. I suppose it all boils down to how much you enjoy life in the Uk ...


Cough Cough.... Did you just say PRIVATE? - Its seems your evidence is anecdotal and not actually based on fact. Sure, some inner-city schools don't do so well but pound for pound the average English School is leagues ahead of SA schools. They all have hi-tech facilities etc.

Cough Cough again... and if you want to talk private - bring it on.

I would like to see the pass rates etc....
Here is one from the UK.... Perhaps it will help the poster make the right move.
2009 Secondary School (GCSE and equivalent)

Please send me the SA equivalent..... Thanks

PS The poster was also comparing A-Levels to Matric


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Ok so here are some sources:

This is a PUBLIC school : Westville Boys' High School

This is a PRIVATE school : Academics :: Kearsney College ::

Note some lines written in articles : "*South African private schools represent some of the finest in the world*"

"*Many Homecomers find the quality of education in South Africa exceeds that offered by schools in the UK*"


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## melb (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm not sure the A level vs Matric is an issue any more - I discovered that there is a private school in Pmburg (where I would be moving back to) that offers an International GCSE and A level qualification. Presumably these exams are the same as the UK exams... School fees would be approx £5000 per year compared with 3 times this amount in the UK which I just couldn't afford. 

I'm having nightmares about this already and I haven't even made a decision yet... maybe my subconscious is telling me it's the wrong choice to make


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> Ok so here are some sources:
> 
> This is a PUBLIC school : Westville Boys' High School
> 
> ...


Thanks for the two links (cough cough) and a blurb.... Please send something that will give the readers the picture of average school results. The person asking the question may not be able to get his or her kids in those schools...

Q: How long have you lived in the UK for and have you had children in UK schools?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

melb said:


> I'm not sure the A level vs Matric is an issue any more - I discovered that there is a private school in Pmburg (where I would be moving back to) that offers an International GCSE and A level qualification. Presumably these exams are the same as the UK exams... School fees would be approx £5000 per year compared with 3 times this amount in the UK which I just couldn't afford.
> 
> I'm having nightmares about this already and I haven't even made a decision yet... maybe my subconscious is telling me it's the wrong choice to make


Q1: Have you thought about a grammar school?
Q2: Where do you stay in the UK


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Halo said:


> Thanks for the two links (cough cough) and a blurb.... Please send something that will give the readers the picture of average school results.


How can i do that, the average would include township schools? The poster isnt going for any of those.



melb said:


> School fees would be approx £5000 per year compared with 3 times this amount in the UK which I just couldn't afford.


 ... If he can pay that amount then he can get into schools like those or very similar!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> How can i do that, the average would include township schools? The poster isnt going for any of those.
> 
> ... If he can pay that amount then he can get into schools like those or very similar!


Perhaps but you are ignoring the original question........... Is the standard of education higher in SA - No it is not. In certain area's SA schools are great but the same can be said for the UK/France/Germany etc etc

If you reply was - If he goes to a good model C school in a good area in SA he will get a good education comparable to that of the UK....FINE But there are so many variables that one cannot make such claims. There is more to life than just the school. (parenting, peers, travel, opportunity etc) and that little matter of security to worry about.

If the poster is in a crap area of the UK - Move.


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## melb (Feb 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> Q1: Have you thought about a grammar school?
> Q2: Where do you stay in the UK


A1: Yes, but my son would struggle to get in - exacerbated by the fact that his current school is in special measures because of inadequate teaching. 

A2: North West Kent. I can't afford to "just move" to a better area of the UK and commute to London for the higher salary that I need. I'm a single parent so any move, UK or SA, has huge financial and personal implications. 

Getting back to my original question about the lack of positive feedback from people who have returned.... are there any other than mman??


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

melb, I have a young friend who recently returned to SA for the same type of Family/grandparents/support groups etc.
His wife was teaching in the UK and his comments were very disparaging regarding English discipline,teaching values etc etc..
his kids are not at school going age yet, and initially it was all rah rah, wonderful to be back.
That was 15 months ago.
He is now in process of applying to Australia as he no longer sees SA as a viable long term option.
not racism, he has a very well paid position, qualifies for any Country in the World.
He says he has made an expensive mistake.

the question you should be asking as a single parent, if you go back, and it does NOT work out for you
Can you afford to leave again?
if not, or with difficulty, think again.
I have purposely kept the saftey aspect out of this as you did not raise it,
I have also not raised University entrance difficulties unless he is seen as previously disadvantaged.
I personally think the next 4 years are going to be pivotal in SA and will decide wether SA has a future or not for parents of children. 
and depending on age, it gets impossible to move kids around.


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

melb said:


> A1: Yes, but my son would struggle to get in - exacerbated by the fact that his current school is in special measures because of inadequate teaching.
> 
> A2: North West Kent. I can't afford to "just move" to a better area of the UK and commute to London for the higher salary that I need. I'm a single parent so any move, UK or SA, has huge financial and personal implications.
> 
> Getting back to my original question about the lack of positive feedback from people who have returned.... are there any other than mman??


Generally, those satisfied with the move won't comment on expat forum.

For information, 20,000 brits settle each year in South Africa, few go back to UK.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Generally, those satisfied with the move won't comment on expat forum.
> 
> For information, 20,000 brits settle each year in South Africa, few go back to UK.


Sure.... All 50+ to retire in the sun where their pound stretches.


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Daxk said:


> melb, I have a young friend who recently returned to SA for the same type of Family/grandparents/support groups etc.
> His wife was teaching in the UK and his comments were very disparaging regarding English discipline,teaching values etc etc..
> his kids are not at school going age yet, and initially it was all rah rah, wonderful to be back.
> That was 15 months ago.
> ...


You cannot take a personal story for the South African situation as a whole.

A friend moved to SA in 2000. After 5 years in JoBurg, he moved to NZ as the situation (crime) was unsustainable. After few years in New Zealand, he moved to Australia. Drugs, lack of job, crime (his flat was broken into 3 times in a year) convinced him to move to the "country of hope".

His situation is much better now but far from perfect, as Australian people are not friendly (according to him).

I know few people who moved back to SA and are OK.

Don't go back if you are not prepared. I remember a young woman, in a good position in SA, who emigrated to UK and is now begging on the street.


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Halo said:


> Sure.... All 50+ to retire in the sun where their pound stretches.


Not all. I would say 70% of them.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

:ranger:


melb said:


> A1: Yes, but my son would struggle to get in - exacerbated by the fact that his current school is in special measures because of inadequate teaching.
> 
> A2: North West Kent. I can't afford to "just move" to a better area of the UK and commute to London for the higher salary that I need. I'm a single parent so any move, UK or SA, has huge financial and personal implications.
> 
> Getting back to my original question about the lack of positive feedback from people who have returned.... are there any other than mman??


You should have mentioned this before..... information is everything. If you have a support structure back in SA that you don't have in the UK moving back makes sense. We had friends who moved back (kid similar age) and they seem to be doing OK. Just make sure you both have UK passports so you are able to move back if/when required.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Not all. I would say 70% of them.


Yup, the other 30% are over 60


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Arnaud, give a reference where you get 20,000 Brits a year settling in SA from?

Yes, a number of British (Construction especially) and other professionals have gone out to SA on contract, they all have an air ticket and relocation expenses paid for before they leave.

kindly give a link to the 20,000 or was that just a thumbsuck?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

As I have said - much of the jibber-jabber is anecdotal..... I think people need to start looking at the facts/stats.


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## Longclosesailing (Feb 26, 2010)

I am moving back to SA - Kloof KZN and would be interested to know which school you are referring to in PMB. I have one daughter in Uni in London, one who is in Durban at moment working in Hilton at a school and the other just doing GCSE's and she would love to move out with us but she is staying in boarding school in the UK at the moment to complete her A Levels. We were told that the Matric is not a good qualification and that the IEB (mainly offered in Private schools) is the equivalent of the A/S in the UK and as she would like to study law we have planned to leave her at her school in UK. We have been able to find boys schools that offer Cambridge board exams (A Level) but not Girls schools.

Schools in the UK also have their problems - discipline being one of them. Currently we pay more for our daughters education for one term in the UK than for the whole year in SA.


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## woollysheep (Feb 26, 2010)

*Scottish Ed*

I brought up my kids in SA, England and Scotland - and there is nothing to beat a Scottish education, especially if you can get your child into a Catholic school (where most kids aren't catholic but the parents want the high standards).


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## woollysheep (Feb 26, 2010)

*Matric vs A levels*

There is nothing wrong with Matric. It is accepted for entrance to universities all over the wolrd. The only difficulty is your child will have to learn (and pass exams in) either Afrikaans or an African language.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

woollysheep said:


> There is nothing wrong with Matric. It is accepted for entrance to universities all over the wolrd. The only difficulty is your child will have to learn (and pass exams in) either Afrikaans or an African language.


Do they still have that crazy rule.... Thought they would have dropped that by now 1/6 of your education on a wasted language - Go Figure!

Also, please mention that you need to do HG Subjects in Matric (closer to A-Levels) in order to get that exemption.


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

woollysheep said:


> There is nothing wrong with Matric. It is accepted for entrance to universities all over the wolrd. The only difficulty is your child will have to learn (and pass exams in) either Afrikaans or an African language.


Nope you can sub this now for any second language ... French, Spanish, Italian etc!!!

And yes matric is no worse than A levels


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> Nope you can sub this now for any second language ... French, Spanish, Italian etc!!!
> 
> And yes matric is no worse than A levels


But do you HAVE to do a 2nd language still....???

Matric with (higher grade) Subjects... and its still not as good as A-Levels IMHO... I used to teach Math and the A-Level standard is higher. (but not that dissimilar that you would be disadvantaged when going to Uni)


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## jebadad (Feb 14, 2010)

May I add my 2 cents as well even though I have never been in the UK? My kids are at the American International School in Cape Town and I am quite impressed with it. They have small classes (only 15 learners), high academic standards, very committed teachers and no major disciplinary issues (as far as I am aware of). To the downside: I dislike the American system where you have to score towards your final school leaving certificate already as of grade 9 (and each piece of homework counts - with way too much of homework). That puts a lot of pressure on the kids.

What is another plus at international schools: you usually don't have to bother with local languagues like Xhosa or Afrikaans which your child might not have been tought before. And if you move elsewhere in many coutries you will find a school teaching the same curriculum, so the transition to another school is much smoother.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

We lived in the UK for 6 years and 1 week (to be exact) but our eldest only went to preschool. We have been back for three and a half years now, we had to return due to work visa not being renewed as company was bought out by multinational and 70% jobs fell away. 

Do not let people talk holes into your head! The education system here sucks! Most of the schools that you or I would want our kids to go to are not in our price range (do not do the usual thing of just converting currency to get an idea of price!) and those that we can afford have exactly the same problems that you are trying to avoid... if not worse! Drugs and violence are the order of the day, anyone who disagrees is demented/uniformed/bias/dellusional, period, fullstop, the end!!

I was at uni while in the UK and we could survive just on my wife's salary and my part-time jobs. The education I received was first class and recognised worldwide. The degrees from Wits and some other uni's are not what they used to be. Lastly matric is somewhere between O and A level.

If I was in your shoes I would not ever change a UK school with problems for a SA school with the same and/or even more problems. Lastly, all the other social problems that you will encounter in SA should also be taken into consideration.

The grass may seem greener on this side but that is just because there is sooooo much more day to day crap to make it grow!


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## melb (Feb 20, 2010)

It's St Charles.. unfortunately for you though it's a boy's school. I didn't come across a girl's school where the international GCSE/A levels were offered. If I remember correctly Kearsney (who I think were also listed) is in your area but is also for boys only?


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## Longclosesailing (Feb 26, 2010)

*Moving back*



Halo said:


> Q1: Have you thought about a grammar school?
> Q2: Where do you stay in the UK


Sorry it took so long to reply been organising a huge move...

My daughters have been privately educated in the UK and can remain at their current school whilst we move back to SA.


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## Longclosesailing (Feb 26, 2010)

*Moving back*



Halo said:


> Q1: Have you thought about a grammar school?
> Q2: Where do you stay in the UK


Sorry it took so long to reply been organising a huge move...

My daughters have been privately educated in the UK and can remain at their current school whilst we move back to SA. I think this is the decision we have come to - then they can decide if they want to go to Uni in UK or SA - they will be lucky to have such a choice. Mind you with all the cuts the UK universities will probably all be closed

We are in the South - in Dorset. Lovely area but not got the same feeling about the UK as SA.


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## TEA (Jan 23, 2010)

HI melb
Quick intro about me: South African teacher living and working in the UK 3.5 years now. Have 11 year old daughter at secondary school. 2 older sons, one matriculated in SA, other son in UK working towards GCSEs.

These are my observations and thoughts on this matter:
(1) Matric is equivalent to minimum A-C GCSE levels and in my opinion, having looked at the content of the maths & English, is equivalent to AS levels. A-levels = 1st yr at university in SA but then we take 4 years to complete honours degree where it takes 3 years here in the UK (all the same in the end). (ref: had my martric certificate and qualifications verified by NARIC for equivalency)

(2) Standard of ed in SA vs UK...tough one to answer!! In SA I taught in traditional Model C schools (about 6) with strong governing bodies. In the UK I have been doing long and short term supply in 50+ schools. In the schools I taught in SA, children generally are definitely stronger academically (primary & middle schools) than in the 50+ schools here. I also feel that schools in SA offer children more extra mural activities than here. Children in SA are also encouraged to strive for excellence with Top10 and academic scrolls being something of an honour...in the UK it isn't 'cool' to be academic. I also think peer pressure is worse here than in SA and discipline, well, that is another matter. (oh gee, I've almost convinced myself to go home for my daughter!)
That being said though, I think UK teachers are better trained than SA teachers, children have access to a wider spectrum of experiences, classrooms are better resourced and there is more money invested compared to SA. Another major worry is that SA education is not what it once was and is in decline.

(3) I don't think it is a wise move back to SA because: A-levels from UK are highly recognised;
Consider universities and funding. My oldest son is at Tukkies and in the end his degree would have cost us R500 000 (living expenses, car insurance, medical aid etc). All my friends here have their children taking student loans out which they will pay back when they earn. (SA university - compounded interest on student loans, no interest here until they start paying back student loan);
and (besides the point) having a child driving in SA is a major worry!

I think if you weigh up the pros and cons in the long run, your son is better off here in the UK. However,you have to be a very involved parent in yr son's education...schools don't push so we have to. 

I hope this has helped you in some small way. Let us know what you decide. (pse excuse bad grammar/spelling... not going to take the time to check and haven't activated spell check.)


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## TEA (Jan 23, 2010)

HI mman.
The reason your friend's child jumped 2 years when arriving in the UK is because children are placed in class by age and not ability. (The same happened to my daughter when we arrived and she had some catching up to do but her grounding was strong and did so with no problem.) In a year 6 class you might find children on a level 2 (age 6/7) where they can barely write a proper sentence, right up to children on a level 5 (age 11)...this makes teaching in this country very difficult and does not benefit the children in anyway (in my very humble opinion). Children are never retained (failed) and those children behind for their age, rarely catch up.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

TEA said:


> HI mman.
> The reason your friend's child jumped 2 years when arriving in the UK is because children are placed in class by age and not ability. (The same happened to my daughter when we arrived and she had some catching up to do but her grounding was strong and did so with no problem.) In a year 6 class you might find children on a level 2 (age 6/7) where they can barely write a proper sentence, right up to children on a level 5 (age 11)...this makes teaching in this country very difficult and does not benefit the children in anyway (in my very humble opinion). Children are never retained (failed) and those children behind for their age, rarely catch up.


This is the BIG down-side to UK education and hence important to pick the right schools for your child.


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## melb (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks TEA your post was very helpful. Food for thought...


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## CoachMaxine (Mar 23, 2010)

*Living in SA*

Hi there,

I am originally from the UK, I moved to Durban in 2001 with my south african husband and came back to UK at the end of 2008, primarily because we were having problems with our business and we were concerned about crime in SA.

I thought my return to the UK would be really easy, however it has not been.

These are my thoughts on life in SA.

I really love it there, you have lots of wide open spaces, the sun shines all the time (well most), the people are really friendly, great social life, due to weather and outdoor living, kids love the pool, beach. Usually you have help at home, with a live in housekeeper which means you can spend your time focusing on work, or spend more time with friends and family etc. 

Crime is around you, you get used to living behind bars or gated communities, however you have to put it into perspective, and not let it control you.

Things have changed in SA, they are renaming streets with african names and there is alot of pro-black african activity, which is helping to readress the previous inbalance. Communities are changing, some white south africans find that hard to deal with.

The UK is obviously more organised in terms of internet delivery, ebay, and generally we are advanced. Health care in SA, is private and so is schooling, if you dont have the money for either then you are really stuck. The schools do seem to have a more disciplinarian way about them and they do instill old school manners and a sense of respect. I am not too sure about the UK system.

I think the bigggest things one needs to consider is if you have been living here for a long time, then you will have built up networks of friends, family etc. any move will take time to establish that, although it may be easier if you are going back to where you have family. 

For me, I had my children in SA and all my friends were built up around that, in the UK my friends live all over the place and one does not see them as often as in SA. It takes time to make new friends in the area we are lviing.

Its hard without the home help here in UK, and I think in SA one is really lucky to have that help.

If you have made money on property in the UK, then it is possible you will be able to buy a great home in SA and altthough prices have gone up alot over there, since when I move there in 2001, you will definitely get more for your money than over here, unless you are planning to live on the cape where it is expensive.

my sa friends tell me the cost of living as gone up enormously in SA and that like every where in the world, people are finanncially challenged. 

Personally, I think its easy to think the grass is greener on the other side, for me, I wish I was back in SA, I loved life there, its great to be here with my extended family, but in hindsight, I think I do prefer SOuht African life. However, perhaps if the financial challenges had not been so big when we came back here and we had the sort of money we were used to, then perhaps it wouldnt be so bad.

I am not sure if that is helpful, if you have any other questions then let me know.
Maxine









melb said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have recently started to consider moving back to SA mainly because my 13yr old son is not getting the good solid education and positive attitude to school/"work" that I hoped he would in this "land of opportunity". It wouldn't be a permanent move - just a few years until he has finished high school. Being close to family again would also be great!
> 
> ...


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