# questions



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

Newbie posting. I have quite a few questions, but would like to do a little more research before I start peppering the boards. I'm going to get my post count up so I can PM a few folks who seem to have been down the road we are considering already. 

General background: we have the opportunity to move to Spain this summer and can stay for a few years. We can also chose to live where we want in the country. Children will be 9 and 7 for start of new school year. They have been in a British school (in China) which was grand, and now a school that is okay, but too small, in CR. We can put them in private school, but we are also considering state schools. 

Our objective is for children (and me) to learn Spanish. We are struggling with the idea of living somewhere where they will have to learn multiple languages at once. They both resist the picking up languages. They continue to study Chinese but are far from fluent, and neither have learned any Czech. 

For their mental health and an easy transition, one of the great British private schools in Madrid seems like a no brainer; but the obvious concern is that they would not learn Spanish. The Spanish school system would be hard on the 9-year old, I think, although the younger one is much easier going and more adaptable. 

So, I research and ponder. Any thoughts would be appreciated, although I am clear that I have not given anyone a specific question to address. ;-)


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I've given your post its own thread so that it will be seen by a few more folk

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi, welcome to the forum! My first thought on reading your post was that if you can live anywhere in Spain, why choose Madrid? Not that there is anything wrong with it (except the climate, the pollution and the fact that it is as far from the coast as you can get), but there are good British schools all over Spain, many of which offer bilingual education.

National Association of British Schools in Spain


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My opinion of international schools is that they are berated by those brits who come here to "integrate" and think that international means segregation - far from it. From my experience, they are schools full of "international" kids who speak a variety of languages. The lessons are mainly in english and the curriculum is english. There are lessons in Spanish and they are taught other languages. There are provisions made for those shildren whose first language isnt english. Certainly in my kids school there is a much higher percentage of "others" compared to british! The playground at their school has a strange mixture of languages going on!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> My opinion of international schools is that they are berated by those brits who come here to "integrate" and think that international means segregation - far from it. From my experience, they are schools full of "international" kids who speak a variety of languages. The lessons are mainly in english and the curriculum is english. There are lessons in Spanish and they are taught other languages. There are provisions made for those shildren whose first language isnt english. Certainly in my kids school there is a much higher percentage of "others" compared to british! The playground at their school has a strange mixture of languages going on!
> 
> Jo xxx


I sort of agree with you - with the caveat that it does very much depend upon the school

my 2 were in an International school for our first year here - I don't know if it has changed now, but at the time, all languages except English (including Spanish) were banned in the classroom & playground - obviously except during actual Spanish lessons

many many kids left the school at the time unable to scrape a pass at IGCSE Spanish

a bit ridiculous if you're living in Spain..............


----------



## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

QUOTE]We are struggling with the idea of living somewhere where they will have to learn multiple languages at once. [/QUOTE]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this? If you mean Spanish and another regional language (please note I said _language_ and NOT dialect ), then yes it is something that you need to consider, although my children have not found it a problem at all. 

We lived in Asia for quite a while watching lots of expats drag their kids from assignment to assignment and one thing I swore I wouldn't do was raise a child in a country they had no future in; either through visa issues or inability to speak, read and write the language to a professional level. I guess it depends how long you want to stay, but for me if my children are to have any hope of a life in Spain independantly from us then they have to go to spanish school.

Hope this helps


----------



## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

That said, it is almost universally agreed that if you only plan to be in Spain for a couple of years or so then the international system is best, as it's easier to switch again.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> My opinion of international schools is that they are berated by those brits who come here to "integrate" and think that international means segregation - far from it. From my experience, they are schools full of "international" kids who speak a variety of languages. The lessons are mainly in english and the curriculum is english. There are lessons in Spanish and they are taught other languages. There are provisions made for those shildren whose first language isnt english. Certainly in my kids school there is a much higher percentage of "others" compared to british! The playground at their school has a strange mixture of languages going on!
> 
> Jo xxx


Some thoughts...

There were many Spanish students at the International school Mrs Jimenata taught at. They are far from segregated. 

I am under the impression that, if you send your British children to an international school, if they want to go on to university education, it will almost certainly be at a British university. If they don't go on to university they will find it almost impossible to find a good job in Spain.

Even if you send your children to Spanish school and they manage well enough to go on to further education they will find it very difficult (but perhaps not impossible) to find good jobs in Spain because they are foreigners.


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks for all of the replies! I'm still in the research stages, so my thoughts are still forming. 

Our objective is not to settle in Spain for the long term, but to give our children a solid second language. Our experience in the British school in China was that they took classes in Chinese every day, but learned very little. I fear the same sort of situation in an British school in Spain; where they end up taking classes, never use the language and learn it only in the most rudimentary way. 

Madrid was recommended to us because Castilian is mainly spoken, and our children would not be faced with the other regional languages. Also, we have heard some rather interesting things about some of the regional British schools; the school our children are in now is frankly not ideal and we're feeling almost as though they have spent a year treading water. They're smart kids and we want them to have a great education; ideally, they'll leave school fluent in two languages. 

We will move on in a few years; we have not come up with a place to 'settle,' although we do think that we would like to settle the children in one location for their teenage years (Costa Rica is sounding rather nice :clap2. Right now, they are happy enough moving around. They loved China, are happy in the CR, and find the idea of Spain intriguing. We lived in a big city in China, so Madrid would not pose a problem in that respect. 

The key for me is balancing a great education where they are moving forward in science, math, geography and history while mastering a second language. I want to end up in a place where we can accomplish both.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EllenCZ said:


> Thanks for all of the replies! I'm still in the research stages, so my thoughts are still forming.
> 
> Our objective is not to settle in Spain for the long term, but to give our children a solid second language. Our experience in the British school in China was that they took classes in Chinese every day, but learned very little. I fear the same sort of situation in an British school in Spain; where they end up taking classes, never use the language and learn it only in the most rudimentary way.
> 
> ...


yes, you have a point that in a British school Spanish will be a subject rather than used all the time - of course some will use it all the time, but they will have the option of never speaking Spanish outside lessons, and so perhaps not learning so much


in your suituation I would go for one of the well respected private truly bi-lingual schools


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> in your suituation I would go for one of the well respected private truly bi-lingual schools


I'm with you on that. 

But it begs the question, what constitutes a well respected private bi-lingual school? I've been trying to work out how they are rated, ranked or reviewed and haven't found a whole lot of information. I am a member of a forum for international school teachers and some of the things they say about some of the schools in Spain are frightening.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EllenCZ said:


> Thanks for all of the replies! I'm still in the research stages, so my thoughts are still forming.
> 
> Our objective is not to settle in Spain for the long term, but to give our children a solid second language. Our experience in the British school in China was that they took classes in Chinese every day, but learned very little. I fear the same sort of situation in an British school in Spain; where they end up taking classes, never use the language and learn it only in the most rudimentary way.
> 
> ...


My son has been at an international school since we've been in Spain since he was 13, he's now 16 (today actually!!). He speaks pretty good spanish, he understands it and can write it well. My daughter went to international school for a couple of months from the age of 10 and started learning some spanish. She then wanted to go to state school, which she did for nearly 2 years and is nowhere near as good as my son. She is now back in an international school and her spanish is coming along nicely, she now has spanish speaking friends and is chatting to them most of the time in a mixture of spanish and english.

Obviously thats only our experience and its diffent depending on schools, kids, environment etc




Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hello EllenCZ,
I think Madrid could be a good choice for you and your children, but I suppose there are many factors which will influence your choice. For example


How old are they?
How long do you think you'll be staying ?
Where will you be going afterwards?
You say the objective is "to give them a solid second language", so how many years do you predict it will take them? You'll have to compute the cost of the years of living in Madrid and the type of school that you choose.
If you go to Costa Rica afterwards they won't be in danger of losing their language, but if you go to Latvia, they'll have another language to contend with.

Another thing to take into consideration is that International Schools are usually set up for Spaniards who want their children to learn, primarily, English; not for foreign students who want to learn Spanish. The emphasis is not on Spanish.

If your children are under 10 they could go to a Spanish primary school. It would be tough, but they'll pick up Spanish much quicker than any other way. Many state schools are described as bi lingual now. The programme is still in its early stages and has been much criticised, but it would give your children an advantage in the classes taught in English so they would have more time to concentrate on the Spanish .

Lastly, Madrid like all cities, has it grotty areas and nicer areas, so don't write it off as a big polluted place as some have done. But you could consider many different places. Salamanca is the place that's supposed to have the purest Spanish. If you prefer the coast Santander, or Santiago de Compostela, Toledo, Leon, Burgos...


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I sort of agree with you - with the caveat that it does very much depend upon the school
> 
> my 2 were in an International school for our first year here - I don't know if it has changed now, but at the time, all languages except English (including Spanish) were banned in the classroom & playground - obviously except during actual Spanish lessons
> 
> ...


Just out of interest really, I went into my kids international school this morning (to pay  ) and they have a public announcement system. While I was standing there, they had some of the children reading "motivating messages" to the whole school in both Spanish and English! I also saw the headmistress, (who is Spanish and quite terrifying) "reprimanding" a couple of children who were caught running in Spanish!!! 

I think the days of only speaking english in most of these schools are gone - they are international and as such, need to embrace all languages and cultures!

Jo xxx


----------



## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm also about to go looking for an international school and I'm concerned about these "frightening" stories. I'm concerned because I don't know what they are and until I plonk the cash down I might not find out. As a newbie when it comes to paying for education I'm rather nervous about making such a big commitment. 
I live in Coin and there are two obvious schools that I need to find out about within a half hour range. One of them is a member of NABS, but I have read strong, but non-specific criticism of it on this and other forums. The other school is not in NABS and people I meet say it's very good, but I have seen that a certain moderator here had some kind of problem with it and took her child elsewhere.
I'd love to know what other people know, but I can appreciate that they can't say it in a public space like this. PM's or tactful comments would be very gratefully received.
One thing I'm wondering about is whether the shift towards having a majority of Spanish children in these schools is being handled well, given that the change has happened so fast. I don't mind where the children come from, as long as the school is not trying to force a particular style of teaching that is more suited to their customers of five years ago. I feel that the opposite problem is in evidence in the state schools here, where the presence of foreign children is seen as more of a nuisance than the opportunity it could be.
It also seems that the academic results (the very few I can find) are not so great in the local international sector. I'd like my son to be able to have the kind of education I got in the UK and to be able to flit around global job markets as he fancies when he's older, but it's not clear to me that these schools are up to the job, at least beyond the age of ten or eleven.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Turtles said:


> I'm also about to go looking for an international school and I'm concerned about these "frightening" stories. I'm concerned because I don't know what they are and until I plonk the cash down I might not find out. As a newbie when it comes to paying for education I'm rather nervous about making such a big commitment.
> I live in Coin and there are two obvious schools that I need to find out about within a half hour range. One of them is a member of NABS, but I have read strong, but non-specific criticism of it on this and other forums. The other school is not in NABS and people I meet say it's very good, but I have seen that a certain moderator here had some kind of problem with it and took her child elsewhere.
> I'd love to know what other people know, but I can appreciate that they can't say it in a public space like this. PM's or tactful comments would be very gratefully received.
> One thing I'm wondering about is whether the shift towards having a majority of Spanish children in these schools is being handled well, given that the change has happened so fast. I don't mind where the children come from, as long as the school is not trying to force a particular style of teaching that is more suited to their customers of five years ago. I feel that the opposite problem is in evidence in the state schools here, where the presence of foreign children is seen as more of a nuisance than the opportunity it could be.
> It also seems that the academic results (the very few I can find) are not so great in the local international sector. I'd like my son to be able to have the kind of education I got in the UK and to be able to flit around global job markets as he fancies when he's older, but it's not clear to me that these schools are up to the job, at least beyond the age of ten or eleven.


I've sent you a PM with some of my thoughts. However, I've always found that the international schools I've visited have been just that - international and not just British comprehensives abroad! There is a little bit of "rivalry" in the playground between all the nationalities, but on the whole it seems to work well and the kids all get along. Those whose first language isnt english get extra tuition so that they dont hold the class up, cos of course the lessons are english curriculum and in english. They also have two lessons totally in spanish, the language and a lesson called "****" which is about spanish history, culture, direction etc!! 

The school mine are at now has a spanish headmistress who makes sure that everyone is learning well and is getting on with one another - and she is feared by everyone, children, parents and staff alike !!!!


Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> I've sent you a PM with some of my thoughts. However, I've always found that the international schools I've visited have been just that - international and not just British comprehensives abroad! There is a little bit of "rivalry" in the playground between all the nationalities, but on the whole it seems to work well and the kids all get along. Those whose first language isnt english get extra tuition so that they dont hold the class up, cos of course the lessons are english curriculum and in english. They also have two lessons totally in spanish, the language and a lesson called "****" which is about spanish history, culture, direction etc!!
> 
> The school mine are at now has a spanish headmistress who makes sure that everyone is learning well and is getting on with one another - and she is feared by everyone, children, parents and staff alike !!!!
> 
> ...


****!!!







strawberry or chocolate?

conocimiento del medio - we call it c medi

it translates as 'understanding the environment' & is basically a mixture of history, geography & science

in state schools they only teach this at primary level - when they get to secondary they split the subjects


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> ****!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, thats it, smarty pants  Actually I notoriously asked for an ice cream cone once in my best spanish, but I used ñ instead of n - if you know what I mean. The guy behind the counter fell about!!!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> ****!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely "****" here xabia.

That's a cucurucho in the photo in Madrid. Not to be confused with cucaracha.


----------



## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> That's a cucurucho in the photo in Madrid. Not to be confused with cucaracha.


No, don't spray that with Biokill - it definately won't end well


----------



## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks very much for the PM Jo. I'd been wondering about that for ages. I'll get my spies onto it. I suspect that it's inevitable that the international schools are going to have difficulty catering for older children as the need for specialised facilities grows at the same time as Spanish parents are pulling the children out and putting them in local schools once they've got the language under their belts.
My son is five and we've spoken to parents at Sunland whose children are slightly older. They seemed very happy - maybe problems come later?
We'd be interested in St Antony's, but don't know anything about it other than the cryptic negative comments I've read.


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi Ellen,

I'm in Madrid myself, have been here for 16 years, moved with our two kids aged 2 & 4 from Hertfordshire. They started in a Spanish school but didn't settle well & we found a super "British school" where the (UK based) syllabus is 70% English, 30% Spanish. We live in the sierra north of Madrid (looking out at snow-capped mountains at the moment) where the air is NOT polluted! Each of the kids had only 1 or 2 English speakers in their class, therefore the 'playground language' was Spanish & each of them are now fully bilingual - they are Spanish as far as the Spaniards are concerned & English to the English speaking world. The school takes iGCSEs & A-levels & my son got into Lancaster university with an A, 2 Bs & a C, after getting 10 GCSEs at A-C. 

Unfortunately my husband passed away a few months ago & we will be putting our house on the market in the spring but have raised our family here & never regretted it. There are ski slopes nearby, a guaranteed summer (!), good motorway connections, a great way of life.

This is my first post, I've been 'lurking' for a while, learning all sorts of things as I've had a tough time doing everything on my own suddenly. The site is excellent & my thanks go out to all the wonderful, knowledgeable people who offer up such good advice.

Liz


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I forgot to mention, the school I mentioned is a member of NABSS, takes children from 3months (only in Spain!) to 18, has 4 schools in total & doesn't make you speak Catalan!

It is close to the A6, exit42 (42 km from the centre of Madrid - 35mins unless in rush hour). It is at 900m altitude, an area where the Madrileños come to escape the heat of the summer as it's a few degrees cooler. When we came here in '94 we sold our 3-bed house in the UK & bought this one, twice the size, with a pool, for the same price! The same calculation would probably apply today & I will be putting it on the market for probably two thirds what it was "worth" 3 years ago...boo hoo!


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

:welcome:
Hi & welcome to the forum & sorry to here of your loss. I hope that you enjoy participating & glad that you've found the members helpful.


----------



## angela1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Liz, so sorry to hear of your loss. A warm welcome to the forum.

I have been trying to look at schools in the Costa Blanca for my 6 year old. Anyone reading my previous posts will know education is my top priority. I have a very bright child that I hope/expect to go on to University. Our local state school is one of the top in Scotland with many children gaining 5 A's and going to University. I have not found a school in the Costa Blanca that can compare to what I have at home.

My own thoughts on a child attending an international school learning Spanish would depend on the amount of Spanish children attending that particular school. If there is a high proportion then I imagine outwith classes the main language the children will use will be Spanish. Thus, English speaking children will learn to speak Spanish. Simply my thoughts and I have no experience of this.

I would be delighted if anyone with any advice, experience or views on schools in this area could PM me.

Many Thanks
Angela


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks for the welcome, guys. Angela - I don't know what part of the Costa Blanca you are looking at, but three or four years ago we were considering a move to the north of Alicante, around Javea, and looked into schools for our then 15 year old. We were very interested in the Lady Elizabeth School. Unfortunately, illness put a stop to our move at that time. Have you looked at the NABSS site? All their schools are inspected & have to comply with British & Spanish standards. Of course, these are private schools but the fees are lower than British ones.

I found with my kids that they picked up the language so quickly just playing & being around Spanish kids. Maybe that was because they had few English speakers around & HAD to speak Spanish. Your child will also make local friends, meet at the swimming pool, beach, etc., so will soon be chattering away in a new language!


----------



## angela1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks Liz.

Yes, I have not visited LES although I intend to. Some people have posted here in the past that it's not that good and one lady was removing her child to place her in the local state school. 

To be honest, I would base myself anywhere on the Costa Blanca depending on school!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angela1 said:


> Thanks Liz.
> 
> Yes, I have not visited LES although I intend to. Some people have posted here in the past that it's not that good and one lady was removing her child to place her in the local state school.
> 
> To be honest, I would base myself anywhere on the Costa Blanca depending on school!


LES has the better reputation locally of the 2 international schools in this immediate area 

I have never heard anything bad about LES (except that it's maybe too 'british' for some) & I believe the new facilities are great - but yes, many people when they have decided that they are here for the long haul will transfer their kids to state school

what has to be remembered, is that with many private International schools here in Spain you are paying for what is at best an average UK state school education - admittedly with much smaller class sizes


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

Madliz, sorry for your loss. I really appreciate your taking the time to come and talk about your experiences. 

I wanted to respond to PW's rather sensible questions: 

<quote> * How old are they?
* How long do you think you'll be staying ?
* Where will you be going afterwards?

You say the objective is "to give them a solid second language", so how many years do you predict it will take them? You'll have to compute the cost of the years of living in Madrid and the type of school that you choose.
If you go to Costa Rica afterwards they won't be in danger of losing their language, but if you go to Latvia, they'll have another language to contend with.</quote>

My children will be 9 and 7 at the start of the next school year. Our objective is in the next two years for them to be fluent in a second language. We are considering both German and Spanish, and looking at the countries where we can accomplish that. 

They spent three years in a great International school environment, they studied Chinese for three years, but didn't come away with a whole lot. They are really smart kids, though, and we want a great grounding in the basics (math science, etc) as well as language. So, I struggle. 

As has been pointed out, the bi-lingual schools in Spain provide a great place to get the language, but a mediocre education otherwise. Do I have to sacrifice math/science acceleration to gain language? My fear would be moving to Spain, spending a fortune on a private British International school getting good (but not excellent) English math/science, and elementary Spanish. 

And here's the real issue: we don't know where we are going to "end up." The kids are American, so they will go to university there (in ten years). Maybe we'll settle there in a few years, but neither my husband or I are keen on that option. We have job flexibility, so we really have a lot of different options. 

Ultimately, we want our next move to put us in a position to get the kids fluent in a second language, put them in an environment where they won't end up beat to a pulp because their mother tongue is English, and make sure that they are progressing in other areas of the curriculum as well. 

Hell, I want to move to Spain because the weather is nicer than where we are now. Plus tapas. ;-)


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

[


> quote=EllenCZ;454438
> 
> My children will be 9 and 7 at the start of the next school year. Our objective is in the next two years for them to be fluent in a second language. We are considering both German and Spanish, and looking at the countries where we can accomplish that.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Your main objective is for the children to learn Spanish, and they're only going to have two years to do it, and you don't know where you're be ending up... To me it's obvious you need a State primary school. 
It's true, children learn languages quickly, and yours are still young enough for it to be not exactly painless, but not so painful. However, 2 years isn't very long to make the language "stick", so they'll need as much in put as possible, in and out of the classroom and for me that means state schools. There are good ones you know, not all of them can be bad , can they?  And remember, all schools are only as good as their teachers, some of which change every year in both systems. 
I have never found a school that I'm totally happy with, I mean all the subjects are taught how I expect, the school trips are organised the way I like, classroom management is done the way I recognise etc, etc, but I think that's the way it works. It's called "life", I believe. I think it's the way it works in international schools too. But with state schools at least you know you're getting the Spanish input. (Although, as has been mentioned I think, many state schools are now "bilingual" to a varying degree, and with varying degrees of success)
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EllenCZ said:


> Madliz, sorry for your loss. I really appreciate your taking the time to come and talk about your experiences.
> 
> I wanted to respond to PW's rather sensible questions:
> 
> ...




Out of your area, but this school is getting great revues around here. Worth a glance maybe???

Colegio MIT - Colegio bilingüe MIT


Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Madliz said:


> Hi Ellen,
> 
> I'm in Madrid myself, have been here for 16 years, moved with our two kids aged 2 & 4 from Hertfordshire. They started in a Spanish school but didn't settle well & we found a super "British school" where the (UK based) syllabus is 70% English, 30% Spanish. We live in the sierra north of Madrid (looking out at snow-capped mountains at the moment) where the air is NOT polluted! Each of the kids had only 1 or 2 English speakers in their class, therefore the 'playground language' was Spanish & each of them are now fully bilingual - they are Spanish as far as the Spaniards are concerned & English to the English speaking world. The school takes iGCSEs & A-levels & my son got into Lancaster university with an A, 2 Bs & a C, after getting 10 GCSEs at A-C.
> 
> ...


I'm out your way, one or two exits before you on the motorway! And have been in this area for a similar amount of time - 17 years in March.
Had a lovely walk yesterday looking up at the snowcapped mountains, but getting very hot in the sun we had!
My daughter was born here and went straight into state school education with no problems. International etc was not an option for us. There have been good times and bad times, but in general we're happy and very happy with her secondary education compared to other Spanish options.
You must be facing a few tough decisions right now, a hard situation to be in. Hope all goes well.
It would be lovely to read more of your posts, having lived here for so long, I'm sure you'd be able to help people along...


----------



## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> My children will be 9 and 7 at the start of the next school year. Our objective is in the next two years for them to be fluent in a second language. We are considering both German and Spanish, and looking at the countries where we can accomplish that.
> 
> They spent three years in a great International school environment, they studied Chinese for three years, but didn't come away with a whole lot. They are really smart kids, though, and we want a great grounding in the basics (math science, etc) as well as language. So, I struggle.


You need to be careful about your expectations. Two years is a long time to a child, but a very short time to a linguist! One of our customers is a linguistics PhD lecturer in the UK and we have been having some fascinating chats about children and language acquisition. Did you know that children under 10 will almost certainly lose the second language within 3-6 months if they no longer speak it fluently every day? They no longer require it so it's 'redundant' - and they have to move on and devote brain power to the next challenge. 

Spanish state school will put them about a year behind the UK curriculum, but I don't know about the US? International school maintains them at around the same grade as the UK. If you don't know where you'll end up I would be less worried about the speed of their education as will it matter if they go to uni a year or two later? 

It's becoming clear to me that we have an exceptional state primary here in Javea - one that has embraced it's multiculturalism, and decided to maximise it applying for grants for non-spanish tuition and teaching a high level of english as well. As far as the academics go, maths and literacy seem to be to a very high standard, as well as the science/nature subject too. They have computers and interactive white boards and tough but lovely enthusiastic teachers. The things that are not great are sport (teams etc) and drama.


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

jojo said:


> Out of your area, but this school is getting great revues around here. Worth a glance maybe???
> 
> Colegio MIT - Colegio bilingüe MIT
> 
> ...



WOW! That school looks grand on paper; Malanga is actually not a bad location; Ryan air flies there. Thanks!


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

Sorry, more later when I have a few minutes to read the responses and digest! Very interesting and helpful discussion here. 

So, thank you to all for your thoughtful replies. I really appreciate it.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

fourgotospain said:


> You need to be careful about your expectations. Two years is a long time to a child, but a very short time to a linguist! One of our customers is a linguistics PhD lecturer in the UK and we have been having some fascinating chats about children and language acquisition. Did you know that children under 10 will almost certainly lose the second language within 3-6 months if they no longer speak it fluently every day? They no longer require it so it's 'redundant' - and they have to move on and devote brain power to the next challenge.


This is what I was referring to in my previous posts. Where you are going to go next has to be taken into consideration (will you be practicing the language or not) , and the amount of time you are here will determine to a certain degree if the language will "stick" or not. It's like cramming in lots of studying before an exam. You might remember it for the actual exam, but the long term retention is very scant. 2 years is not a long time linguistically speaking as fourgotospain points out and if day to day contact is cancelled much will be lost.



> Spanish state school will put them about a year behind the UK curriculum, but I don't know about the US? International school maintains them at around the same grade as the UK. If you don't know where you'll end up I would be less worried about the speed of their education as will it matter if they go to uni a year or two later?


Totally agree. I would also say that for me uni is not the be all and end all, especially in todays world of changing employment patterns. Of course you don't want to close any doors, but going to uni a year before or a year after, if they go, shouldn't be something that sways the decision IMO

[quote



> It's becoming clear to me that we have an exceptional state primary here in Javea - one that has embraced it's multiculturalism, and decided to maximise it applying for grants for non-spanish tuition and teaching a high level of english as well. As far as the academics go, maths and literacy seem to be to a very high standard, as well as the science/nature subject too. They have computers and interactive white boards and tough but lovely enthusiastic teachers. The things that are not great are sport (teams etc) and drama.


 ][/quote]

As I said before, there *are* good state schools here. My daughter's in a good secondary school. The education is different to that that she would have received in the UK, but that has it's pros and its cons in itself to be debated on another thread!


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

angela1 said:


> Liz, so sorry to hear of your loss. A warm welcome to the forum.
> 
> I have been trying to look at schools in the Costa Blanca for my 6 year old. Anyone reading my previous posts will know education is my top priority. I have a very bright child that I hope/expect to go on to University. Our local state school is one of the top in Scotland with many children gaining 5 A's and going to University. I have not found a school in the Costa Blanca that can compare to what I have at home.My own thoughts on a child attending an international school learning Spanish would depend on the amount of Spanish children attending that particular school. If there is a high proportion then I imagine outwith classes the main language the children will use will be Spanish. Thus, English speaking children will learn to speak Spanish. Simply my thoughts and I have no experience of this.
> 
> ...


Hi Angela,
I would warn against having expectations of finding any school, whether international or spanish, to compare with a school in the UK. They are so totally different that it is impossible to put them side by side and compare! 
I appreciate that you want a school that has a firm academic grounding, but I would stress that it is the individual that strives for top academic grades, and not just the school that makes them...
At the International school I send my children, the upper sixth are all planning to go on to universities around the world. My eldest is doing his A levels this year and plans to go back to the UK to university. It might be good to boast about having 5 A levels, but UCAS only ever asks for 3. Some do more, but it is not necessary. The experience of studying with students from around the globe gives the students an added edge in terms of their CV. I believe it also gives them some maturity.


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I agree that that it is difficult to compare International schools in Spain with schools in the UK. My children took iGCSEs, comparable to the old O'levels & so highly rated these days that several top schools in the UK are now taking them rather than the British GCSE. In the international GCSE there is minimal coursework & the bulk of the grade comes from the final exam. Unlike their British cousins, my kids did not know before the exam that they'd 'already got an A grade' (from coursework) & the exam part might give them an A*. They had to learn each subject over the course of two years & then sit several exams in each subject "like in the old days".

At A level, there was the AS exam in year 1, then the A" exam in year 2 of study. British cousins studied a module, did an exam, another module, another exam & so on. If they didn't like the grade they got each time, they did the mini-exam again...& again...thus achieving a better grade than they might have. Now you tell me who was more stretched academically?

I watch the annual celebration of even better exam grades in the UK with a wry smile. Incidentally, my son got an A for Spanish A level & an A* iGSCE. Interestingly, some Spanish classmates got better grades at both stages, surely that says something about the education? So, no, you cannot compare the two systems, in my humble opinion.

Liz


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm back. 

The pendulum in my home swung directly into the VIENNA box for a week or so, so things on the SPAIN side simmered down. (FYI, I have already visited the Vienna schools, so if we chose that city, the decision is already made). 

But, the pendulum has swung back, with a bit more focus: Barcelona. The rationale is business, so there is not really a point on debating the value of the city itself vs other locations around the country (although it certainly seems a charming place ). 

While I recognize the value of the discussion of maintaining language longer term, I humbly submit that we have no idea where we will live long term. I do solemnly swear, though, that if we move to Spain and our children learn Spanish that we will maintain the language wherever we go. We are doing it now with Chinese and we live in the Czech Republic (can you even imagine??), so I know of what I speak. :juggle:

So, anyone want to comment on schools in Barcelona? I have "the list" and have read up on what is available on-line, checked review sites, etc, and am now planning a trip to visit the schools (unless the pendulum swings in the meantime and we ultimately make a decision NOT to go to Spain). I am looking at American, Ben Franklin, British (which strikes me as a bit dodgy ... just from poking around the internet). 

In the "maybe" category would be The Europa School, Colegio Internacional SEK and Oak Tree. 

So, does anyone have feedback on any of these schools? Children will be 7 and 9, (so still primary/elementary school). They are both very bright and interested in math and science. I'm looking for a school with good athletic, art and language programs as well as great academics. 

Also, am I missing anything? Is there a great school just outside of Barcelona that isn't on my list? 

Many thanks,


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

Sorry, false alarm. 

After I wrote up a long email about Barcelona schools to my husband, he picked Vienna! While I am sorry I won't be moving to Spain, I am delighted that a decision has been made! 

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. Perhaps we'll be back in a few years. ;-)


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EllenCZ said:


> Sorry, false alarm.
> 
> After I wrote up a long email about Barcelona schools to my husband, he picked Vienna! While I am sorry I won't be moving to Spain, I am delighted that a decision has been made!
> 
> Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. Perhaps we'll be back in a few years. ;-)


Oh well, at least you won't have to worry about learning Catalan ...

Good luck! :wave:


----------



## adinanz (Jan 4, 2011)

EllenCZ said:


> I'm back.
> 
> The pendulum in my home swung directly into the VIENNA box for a week or so, so things on the SPAIN side simmered down. (FYI, I have already visited the Vienna schools, so if we chose that city, the decision is already made).
> 
> ...


Hi,

We are now living in Vienna ( after 10 years in New Zealand) and are thinking about relocating to Spain ( or go back to New Zealand, my preferred choice).
Just out of curiosity, which school have you decided to send your kids to?)


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

adinanz said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are now living in Vienna ( after 10 years in New Zealand) and are thinking about relocating to Spain ( or go back to New Zealand, my preferred choice).
> Just out of curiosity, which school have you decided to send your kids to?)


Danube. Any thoughts? We aren't committed. We can't go to Vienna International (and don't actually want to).


----------



## adinanz (Jan 4, 2011)

EllenCZ said:


> Danube. Any thoughts? We aren't committed. We can't go to Vienna (and don't actually want to).


I don't know much about Danube. VIS ( Vienna International School) is supposed to be the best, at least from what I've heard. Initially, when we first moved here, 3 years ago, I thought about sending the kids to a bilingual state school ( English-German) but in the end they ended up in normal state schools . This is because we thought they would pick up German faster and actually they did. However, I am not sure if it was such a good idea, I think I would prefer now if my kids were in a bilingual school... 
Have you thought about bilingual state schools? In my opinion, if you plan to stay only 2 years here, an international school will not help them acquire German at a native speaker level during this time...


----------



## EllenCZ (Jan 31, 2011)

We're considering bi-lingual. The problem is that as much as we were looking to have them be fluent in Spanish, we are _not_ looking to have them be fluent in German. It's all about what languages we are able to support once we move on. 

We're keeping up with Chinese now, but to add German to the mix and we end up in Spain next, ugh. Spanish is an easy one to keep up, particularly if we end up in the US next. German? Much harder. My opinion, of course.


----------



## adinanz (Jan 4, 2011)

There are few bilingual schools in Vienna and, if language acquisition is a priority in a short period of time ( i.e. 2 years), then I think the kids will learn German better and sooner in a bilingual school rather than an international one.
Good luck with finding the best school for your kids.


----------

