# Renewing visa with no fixed administrative address



## vbncjdkljnf

Hi everyone,
I was very glad to find this forum and wonder if anyone can advise. I have a long-stay visitors visa that expires in a couple of months. I want to remain in France and so I am applying for a Carte de Sejour. My problem is that I do not have a fixed address and the French government requires proof of residence or an accepted administrative address in order to apply for the C de S. Here's what I've done so far to solve this problem:
1. I took out a private mailbox when I arrived in Paris but the French government indicated I am not permitted to use a postal address for administrative procedures. The company who owns the private mailbox has also told me the same thing.
2. I have tried to find an apartment in Paris that would solve this problem, but as many of you can probably attest, it's been extremely difficult with non-responsive agencies and owners -- that's a whole other story. 
3. I found out I can make a "demande de domiciliation" and the Mairie gave me a list of 42 organisations who can do so. I phoned/visited 20 of them and discovered that their boxes are already taken or are reserved for people with a special status. I do not qualify for any special status so I've been turned down. 
4. I have an appointment next week with Paris Adresse in the 17th to make my "demande de domiciliation" and would appreciate any advice or tips, because based on my experiences so far I am afraid I will be turned down.

If I can't complete the address section of the online application for C de S, I fear that my application will be rejected as "incomplete", which of course it is. Has anyone been in this situation? Any ideas what to try next?

So grateful for any thoughts on the matter,
Perplexed.


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## Bevdeforges

A "carte de séjour" is the French term for "residence permit." Which kind of explains how and why you can't get one without having a verifiable *residence* in France. You're not actually renewing the visa, but the residence permit (which, for the first year, was the validated visa in your passport).

Is there some reason you can't manage on the usual 90 days in 180 days aspect of the stamp-in-the-passport "Schengen visa"?


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## EuroTrash

Presumably if you are living in France you are living somewhere, even if it's only a friend's couch. Won't that "somewhere" do as an address? It doesn't necessarily need to be a place you rent in your own name.
Saying you want to keep living in a country where actually you have nowhere to live, is not going to tick the boxes as you say.


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## vbncjdkljnf

Thanks very much for your responses. I've just been getting by on a very long combination of hotels and airbnb-type things and then when that dries up, moving to a nearby town that has some vacancies. It's been exhausting and stressful and certainly not my choice, but nevertheless I doubt OFII will approve. I am well aware what a residence permit is - my question is how to get the administrative address ("demande de domiciliation", which is my right under French law, but which seems in practice to be reserved for people in at-risk circumstances. 

On another note, do either of you know why my post isn't showing up on the main forum page?


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## Clic Clac

flightrisk said:


> On another note, do either of you know why my post isn't showing up on the main forum page?


It's currently top of the thread list on mine.


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## vbncjdkljnf

Oh, okay, thanks for telling me! I must have done something stupid and will refresh the page. Since I'm here, I might as well ask which documents would be best to present Paris Adresse next week? Here's what they're asking for in my category: 
SEJOURNER A PARIS
☐ Ancienne quittance de loyer avec le bail
☐ Jugement d’expulsion
☐ Avis d’imposition
☐ Tout document administratif faisant état d’une adresse parisienne (facture EDF, correspondance CAF, CPAM...) ☐ Attestation d’un dispositif d’hébergement ou d’un dispositif de veille sociale
☐ Contrat d’occupation d’une aire d’accueil des gens du voyage ☐ Constat de présence réalisée par une association

and here's what I have --

the most recent airbnb stay (6 weeks) 
official letters from French administration but with the address of the personal mailbox I rented when I arrived (the one I've learned that I cannot use, going forward). 
other docs like cell phone contract, storage locker but again, with the address of the personal mailbox
I guess my fear for the last two items is that if I show up with docs indicating I have some kind of address, they'll turn me down flat even though they acknowledge that I'm not permitted to use it for administrative purposes . I could just cancel my private mailbox outright but that will leave me with nothing if my application is rejected.

Any ideas about the best docs to present in this case, considering what I have? I'm leaning towards the airbnb stay.


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## EuroTrash

I'm sorry, I expect you will tell me to butt out and you will be right, but I still can't help thinking that all the time and effort you're putting into trying to obtain a domiciliation address would be better invested in actually finding a place to stay. 
At this time of year especially,, AirBnB hosts are sometimes receptive to delisting their property for 6 months or so in favour of a long let. Have you tried that?

I just think you're putting a lot of physical and mental energy into something that won't make the basic problem go away. I know nothing about the process so correct me if I'm wrong, but you say that when you run out of places to stay in one commune you move to another. But if you have a domiciliation address, would you not be tied to that commune for as long as you wanted to keep the address? Then, you say your visa expires in a couple of months but according to google it can take 2 months to be notified of the decision, presumably from the date of your interview not the date of application.. Seems to me like clutching at very thin straw. But if you feel it's the way to go, good luck with it.

Out of all the documents they list I think the avis d'imposition will carry a lot of weight so if you have one, make sure and send that. (@Clic Clac will know exactly why I'm saying that....)


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## *Sunshine*

Reading the requirements it sounds as if the service for which you are applying is designed for locals who've fallen on hard times, not foreigners who are not established there. If the French wanted to issue residence permits to foreigners who didn't have an actual residence in France they would not insist on you providing the address.

Have you considered moving somewhere where you can actually find a place to rent?


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## BackinFrance

You will be very lucky to find a long terme rental in or near Paris or any other major city, it can be hard enough elsewhere


I suppose you have tried Sabbatical Homes.

I think some apparthotels allow you to to receive mail.


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## Bevdeforges

What address did you use for your visa application? To a large extent, they are looking for an address where you can be contacted directly - generally by postal mail (though as you note, a mailbox address is not sufficient). But if you were able to get a visiteur visa, you will have to have some "financial resources" available to secure a place to live, or a bank account at the very least, which is the first step toward finding a flat or other place to live.


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## EuroTrash

flightrisk said:


> here's what I have --
> 
> ...
> other docs like cell phone contract, storage locker but again, with the address of the personal mailbox


Just trying to be helpful here - Not sure these would carry any weight. When they ask for administrative documents they do mean official correspondence with the French administration, or EDF which has a special status, an EDF attestation is officially recognised as proof of address. I believe the point is that these documents are all issued with some kind of bar code on them that can be scanned by the authorities to confirm that the letter is genuine (to stop people "doctoring" documents on their computers I guess).

EDIT - just found this, this is what I was talking about








2D-Doc


Découvrez 2D-Doc, solution numérique pour sécuriser les données entre usagers et l'administration. Plus de détails sur l'ANTS.




ants.gouv.fr


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## vbncjdkljnf

EuroTrash said:


> I'm sorry, I expect you will tell me to butt out and you will be right, but I still can't help thinking that all the time and effort you're putting into trying to obtain a domiciliation address would be better invested in actually finding a place to stay.
> At this time of year especially,, AirBnB hosts are sometimes receptive to delisting their property for 6 months or so in favour of a long let. Have you tried that?
> 
> I just think you're putting a lot of physical and mental energy into something that won't make the basic problem go away. I know nothing about the process so correct me if I'm wrong, but you say that when you run out of places to stay in one commune you move to another. But if you have a domiciliation address, would you not be tied to that commune for as long as you wanted to keep the address? Then, you say your visa expires in a couple of months but according to google it can take 2 months to be notified of the decision, presumably from the date of your interview not the date of application.. Seems to me like clutching at very thin straw. But if you feel it's the way to go, good luck with it.
> 
> Out of all the documents they list I think the avis d'imposition will carry a lot of weight so if you have one, make sure and send that. (@Clic Clac will know exactly why I'm saying that....)


Actually, you are right - believe me I tried and for months, not weeks, and maybe will create a whole new post about that at some point in the future. If you told me this is what my 6 months in France would look like, I wouldn't have believed you. No wonder people on the forum don't seem to believe me. I don't blame them. 

I have asked some AirBnB hosts but they've lined up a student, usually (apparently big tax break on that + frees property 2-3 months in the summer to make a fortune back on AirBnB), or they're using it themselves on and off. But it's a good idea!


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## vbncjdkljnf

*Sunshine* said:


> Reading the requirements it sounds as if the service for which you are applying is designed for locals who've fallen on hard times, not foreigners who are not established there. If the French wanted to issue residence permits to foreigners who didn't have an actual residence in France they would not insist on you providing the address.
> 
> Have you considered moving somewhere where you can actually find a place to rent?


Yes, that's what I thought too but it turns out not to be the case. When I arrived, I went to open a bank account (denied of course - no proof of address) and I asked them what to do for an address while I looked for a rental lease, and they said CCAS -- googled it when I got home and it seemed to be for people - incl. foreigners - who as you say have fallen on hard times, and I just thought they would laugh me right out of the office so I didn't go in. Meanwhile, I'd _fully _expected to have found an apartment by the time my renewal came around and so didn't sweat it. In the meantime, I took out a private mailbox so I could get my mail.

Mmmm, I have looked outside Paris - also in the south of France (probably as popular as Paris so not so helpful) and a bit of the west, but ultimately, I don't want to live somewhere just because I can get an apartment there, and then be stuck and unhappy in the middle of nowhere.


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## vbncjdkljnf

BackinFrance said:


> You will be very lucky to find a long terme rental in or near Paris or any other major city, it can be hard enough elsewhere
> 
> 
> I suppose you have tried Sabbatical Homes.
> 
> I think some apparthotels allow you to to receive mail.


Yes, you're right, I tried Sabbatical Homes but my experience was that the 5 or 6 owners I contacted or met with fell into the categories of (1) not wanting a lease/wanted only cash/wouldn't provide a quittance de loyer; (2) deciding they only wanted to rent to students, usually after I've travelled a considerable distance for the viewing; (3) weren't academics at all and posting as if it were an airbnb-type of listing, but I didn't see a license for them on SH and so I'm not sure if it offers the same kind of protection, insurance etc.


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## vbncjdkljnf

I appreciate all of the responses! I'm still learning the reply system so I did do 1:1 for some posters and somehow missed the others...no slight intended  . Eurotrash, thanks for the link -- I'll go look through my papers and see if I have that barcode on one of them.
Bev - Good question. At the time of my visa application, I had a place for 3 months but Omicron came, my country raised its travel advisory, and by the time they lowered it and I was able to leave, the owner had engaged another lessor for the rest of the year. I had to update my address to a hotel, and the French visa people accepted that because I had proof of sufficient funds without having a pre-booked accommodation. Funds, dossier, legalities are not the problem.


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## BackinFrance

flightrisk said:


> Yes, you're right, I tried Sabbatical Homes but my experience was that the 5 or 6 owners I contacted or met with fell into the categories of (1) not wanting a lease/wanted only cash/wouldn't provide a quittance de loyer; (2) deciding they only wanted to rent to students, usually after I've travelled a considerable distance for the viewing; (3) weren't academics at all and posting as if it were an airbnb-type of listing, but I didn't see a license for them on SH and so I'm not sure if it offers the same kind of protection, insurance etc.


I believe there are expats here who have had success with SH, including in Paris. 

Contrary to what ET says, I don't believe this is a good time to be looking for a rental in Paris, and it won't get any easier with the approach of the Olympics in 2024, even for furnished leases which only run for a year.

There is a massive shortage of permanent rental housing in France anyway and especially in Paris. Plus you are not going to be able to meet the requirements for a permanent rental in Paris and many other locations) irrespective of your available funds (eg no guarantor, no French bank account, your funds are overseas as is your I suppose your income stream,meaning that landlords would not be able to access landlords insurance.

That leaves you having to find another kind of rental such as SH or an apparthotel that will allow you to receive mail, etc.


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## EuroTrash

Actually I was specifically thinking the tourist/airbnb category, not mainstream rental. I don't think any time is a good time to look for rental for anybody who isn't already established in France. I came here intending to rent, no intention of ever buying another property because with no kids to leave it to why would I, but in the end it's what I did because I found it impossible to get a rental. So I fully understand that problem. I was just thinking that if it were possible to get an out of season rental on a seasonal let, it would be a bit of breathing space. Living out of a suitcase must be exhausting and no fun at all.


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## BackinFrance

There is no real out of season in Paris though, and it's now late September and spending Christmas in Paris is a big thing for tourists, including French tourists.


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## vbncjdkljnf

EuroTrash said:


> Actually I was specifically thinking the tourist/airbnb category, not mainstream rental. I don't think any time is a good time to look for rental for anybody who isn't already established in France. I came here intending to rent, no intention of ever buying another property because with no kids to leave it to why would I, but in the end it's what I did because I found it impossible to get a rental. So I fully understand that problem. I was just thinking that if it were possible to get an out of season rental on a seasonal let, it would be a bit of breathing space. Living out of a suitcase must be exhausting and no fun at all.


Thanks Eurotrash - sound like you and I were/are in similar positions. Yes, you know, several people I have met said that's exactly what they ended up doing -- just buying a place because they couldn't get any traction. That includes a good friend of mind, French-Canadian and born in France, who couldn't get an address either and ended up buying a place just so he could get his mail. So it cost him 80,000 euros to get a mailbox, is one way of looking at it 

I met someone a few days ago that managed to get a mailbox through one of the 42 agencies on that list I spoke about. I guess I quit too early after going through 20 of them  and getting the "pas possible"'s but I will be making a RDV there and hope for the best.


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## EuroTrash

BiF is entirely correct though in pointing out that seasonal rentals really aren't a thing in Paris since it attracts tourists year round and there is a mini peak over Christmas and the New Year. Sorry, I wasn't really taking on board that you are stuck on Paris when I suggested seeking off peak deals, you'd have to look outside the districts where tourists stay, to find that.


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## Lancashire_Lass

Hi. Not sure if this helps at all, and I would be interested to know what the answer would be in terms of acceptability for the visa (as I anticipate being in the same boat next year) but just put in dates on AirBnB (I know VRBO does it as well) after googling long term AirBnB France. I used 6 months - this Saturday until end March - and there were hundreds of hits. Fewer in Paris but still numerous. The only thing I suppose is price (the cheapest I found for ‘whole place to yourself’ was $1990 - USD) and whether the authorities would accept the address? 
Hope this isn’t just completely irrelevant but your post is very relevant to many others I am sure and so better to add my pennorth than not. The advice to rent for a year or two to see if you like the area/people etc before buying is wise, but beginning to wonder if actually doable 😥. 
Good luck - you certainly won’t miss out through want of trying!


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## saffron_gin

Sobering post...I spent the last year in the country with three progressively weirder/dishonest/greedy rental situations (details another time)...and am hoping to spend the next year in paris...I already dipped my toes in the rental scene there and found it very hard to get anyone to call back/follow through, even if I am ready with cash at hand for the initial dep+rent+fees+garantme ready to go, set to finish with just the agent's participation...but no. This is not how they do...

So I am out of France for the moment and will be needing to find a flat when I am back in a month or two...think we need to create an emotional support group for people hoping to find a rental in paris in particular but france in general...


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## JayBee1

Can't help on the initial question but have you (and the others in a similar situation) thought of a relocator? Renestance is popular in the south but there has to be others in the areas you are looking at. They charge for their services of course, but it's a viable option. This is not an endorsement of Renestance. I just t know they exist and friends have successfully used their services.


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## BackinFrance

JayBee1 said:


> Can't help on the initial question but have you (and the others in a similar situation) thought of a relocator? Renestance is popular in the south but there has to be others in the areas you are looking at. They charge for their services of course, but it's a viable option. This is not an endorsement of Renestance. I just t know they exist and friends have successfully used their services.


I did a quick Google search for 'relocation services Paris' and there do seem to be some that could fit the bill. If people's expectations are unrealistic the experts would explain this and hopefully suggest a way forward.


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