# European Elections - Expat Candidates



## lenox (May 26, 2009)

For once, we do have a chance to change things here in Spain. Those of us who have asked to vote in the European elections will, one hopes, probably show up on the Day (June 7th). We can support the 'usual suspects' (the PP and the PSOE) who have both shown their lack of interest in the Northern European residents of Spain - the 'illegal homes, 'illegal urbanisations' and corrupt local politicians in the PSOE controlled Andalucía (Remember the Priors?), and the 'Land Grab' and other indignities in the PP controlled Valencian Community. One should remember that these two parties stood together (for once) in Brussels against the Auken Report (which voted to threaten to withold European funding from Spain until its 'urban abuse and endemic property corruption' was addressed).

However, there's an alternative. Europe's third largest group is the Liberal Democrats. Their party in Spain, while small and new, is led by an Expat from Madrid. Sean O'Curneen has an Irish father and a Spanish mother. He has worked in England and France and now works in Brussels as the Secretary General of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe in the EU Committee of the Regions.

Number 4 on the list for the party, the CDL (Centro Democrático Liberal) is Jacqueline Cotterill, a British long term resident of Spain who is the deputy mayor of Parcent (Alicante) and member of the AUN - instigators of the Auken Report.

Google seanocurneen for more information!

*There is a round-table meeting in Mojácar May 30th at the Best Hotel from 11.00with representatives of various grass-roots associations (including AUN) to discuss the Auken Report. All welcome.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> For once, we do have a chance to change things here in Spain. Those of us who have asked to vote in the European elections will, one hopes, probably show up on the Day (June 7th). We can support the 'usual suspects' (the PP and the PSOE) who have both shown their lack of interest in the Northern European residents of Spain - the 'illegal homes, 'illegal urbanisations' and corrupt local politicians in the PSOE controlled Andalucía (Remember the Priors?), and the 'Land Grab' and other indignities in the PP controlled Valencian Community.
> 
> However, there's an alternative. Europe's third largest group is the Liberal Democrats. Their party in Spain, while small and new, is led by an Expat from Madrid. Sean O'Curneen has an Irish father and a Spanish mother.
> 
> ...


I doubt "very much" that by casting a vote would in fact change anything much.
Politicians are corrupt, no matter what party they claim to belong to:lol:


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Well - you should rely on your local lawyers, town hall and builders, who, if they agree with your statement, will be happy 'to receive you'. 
I've lived here most of my life and am convinced that the best answer to local corruption and building fraud is to get the light shone on it. 
This the Auken Report has done.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Can we vote that they disband the european parliament???? cos its turning us all the countries into boring, faceless copies of one another

Jo xxx


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

jojo said:


> Can we vote that they disband the european parliament???? cos its turning us all the countries into boring, faceless copies of one another
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, I've just been sent another party to consider. It's called 'Alternativa Española' a kind of right-wing Catholic outfit, probably wants to invade Gibraltar, but very anti-Europe.
Seriously though, if Britain left Europe, those of us who worked here would need a 'work permit' which, in these straightened times, would be very hard to get.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lenox said:


> Well, I've just been sent another party to consider. It's called 'Alternativa Española' a kind of right-wing Catholic outfit, probably wants to invade Gibraltar, but very anti-Europe.
> Seriously though, if Britain left Europe, those of us who worked here would need a 'work permit' which, in these straightened times, would be very hard to get.


Not necessarily, there are have always been other ways, just cos tghere is a "waste of time and money" parliament in Brussels telling every one how its gonna be, doesnt mean we cant have free trade, reciprical tax,employment, schengen agreements etc

Just my rather simplistic thoughts 


Jo xxx


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

jojo said:


> Can we vote that they disband the european parliament???? cos its turning us all the countries into boring, faceless copies of one another
> 
> Jo xxx


I think you and most of us get A LOT out of all these faceless european copies. Can you imagine what it would mean to live in Spain without the EU and the european parliament? The concept of the EU makes life a lot easier and personally I'm very happy to be able to move, live and work wherever I want within the EU. But a big "machine" needs a central point to control and develope it.

I've been living in the UK for quite a while and always was aware of the "anti-european" movement in the UK, but to actually find expats living in an EU country opposing the european infrastructure amazes me 

The european parliament attracts a lot of corruption and bureaucracy, which has to be battled - I agree here 100%. But let's not forget that without the EU and it's executing organ the european parliament all the things we're enjoying at the moment wouldnt be possible or would involve a massive amount of paperwork and time (free travel, cheap money transfers, the right to live in any EU country etc.)


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

We can take comfort in the thought that those residents who don't support Europe will almost certainly not have asked for their right to vote in the European elections when they were inscribed on their town hall 'padrón'. 
So won't be voting anyway.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Seb* said:


> I think you and most of us get A LOT out of all these faceless european copies. Can you imagine what it would mean to live in Spain without the EU and the european parliament? The concept of the EU makes life a lot easier and personally I'm very happy to be able to move, live and work wherever I want within the EU. But a big "machine" needs a central point to control and develope it.
> 
> I've been living in the UK for quite a while and always was aware of the "anti-european" movement in the UK, but to actually find expats living in an EU country opposing the european infrastructure amazes me
> 
> The european parliament attracts a lot of corruption and bureaucracy, which has to be battled - I agree here 100%. But let's not forget that without the EU and it's executing organ the european parliament all the things we're enjoying at the moment wouldnt be possible or would involve a massive amount of paperwork and time (free travel, cheap money transfers, the right to live in any EU country etc.)



Well there you go!!! I have my opinions and havent heard anything that would change em

Jo xxx


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> Can we vote that they disband the european parliament???? cos its turning us all the countries into boring, faceless copies of one another
> 
> Jo xxx


No Jo, you need Libertas for that. They have my vote in June. The only party to wat to try and clean up the eu parliament.:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mickybob said:


> No Jo, you need Libertas for that. They have my vote in June. The only party to wat to try and clean up the eu parliament.:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:



Nah, I'll just watch and moan about it like squillions of others :tongue:



jo xxx


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Here in Spain there are about 40 different parties from the 'Legalise Marijuana Party' ('what was the date again?') to the 'Leninist Trotsky Alliance' ('Nationalise everything - except my stuff'). The PSOE ('Illegalize all foreign-owned homes') to the PP ('Land grab now!'). The Basque Freedom Party ('Bombs away') and the 'Christian Alliance' ('Jebus loves us'). 
Plenty of choice.
We are getting various election bumph in our post boxes, always with a party '_papeleta_' - a list. You vote in Spain by putting the list - unmarked - into the special envelope (all provided behind the curtain) then, with your proper ID, you place it gently in the ballot box.
I'm supporting the party with ex-pat candidate - the CDL centre party - for evident reasons. See Sean's webpage at www.seanocurneen.com or other material at my page The Entertainer Online.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

lenox said:


> Here in Spain there are about 40 different parties from the 'Legalise Marijuana Party' ('what was the date again?') to the 'Leninist Trotsky Alliance' ('Nationalise everything - except my stuff'). The PSOE ('Illegalize all foreign-owned homes') to the PP ('Land grab now!'). The Basque Freedom Party ('Bombs away') and the 'Christian Alliance' ('Jebus loves us').
> Plenty of choice.
> We are getting various election bumph in our post boxes, always with a party '_papeleta_' - a list. You vote in Spain by putting the list - unmarked - into the special envelope (all provided behind the curtain) then, with your proper ID, you place it gently in the ballot box.
> I'm supporting the party with ex-pat candidate - the CDL centre party - for evident reasons. See Sean's webpage at www.seanocurneen.com or other material at my page The Entertainer Online.


Sorry - but what the hell are you talking about? 

Regards,

Screaming Lord Sutch.

ps - only 40 parties in Spain? What effing country doesn't? 

We have Tory/Labour and they merge more by the day. Remind you of anywhere else? Enuff said.

Regarding the EU - democracy means that corruption requires investigation. Else we risk hanging the wrong people. Let's not forget that one man's corruption is another man's wider road/faster train/etc etc. You should have been in Kent during the Channel Tunnel Rail link shenanigans. Now people go on how wonderful it is to reach central Paris in under two hours.

As for land grab - I have no doubt there is an issue with the interpretation, indeed corrupt interpretation, of the laws intended to provide affordable housing and improved infrastructures. But I have also no doubt that one hell of a lot of "just do it" has happened in the past and now the chickens have come home to roost. It's called taking a chance with a villa by the beach and then losing it becuase you didn't bother to check. Also known as Expat Syndrome - leave all your logic behind in the UK and buy without legal verification. Would you do it back there? No. Effing No. Why here then??

So, I suggest EVERYONE cleans up their act at home and then goes on the crusades to clean up the rest of the world. In the meantime, enjoy the pluses and navigate the negatives as best we can. And until we get uncorrupt governments, I won't hold my breath for that in any country. 

pps - Campaign funding must be going down the toilet in this crisis if forums are what are used to attract votes. Especially targetting disgruntled expats who have, let's face it, enjoyed the benefits of living within the EU. 

By the way - good comment Seb. 

Tallulah.x


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> And until we get uncorrupt governments, I won't hold my breath for that in any country.
> 
> 
> Tallulah.x



Agreed 100%.

Voting in my opinion is a waste of time, it changes nothing, whoever gets in abuses their power in their own way and does very little of what they said they would do if they get into power


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Agreed 100%.
> 
> Voting in my opinion is a waste of time, it changes nothing, whoever gets in abuses their power in their own way and does very little of what they said they would do if they get into power


IMHO the only way to change the current scenarios is voting for the minorities so it'll a bit more complicated for the parties to have the majority in the parliaments. It's a shame that even the minorities are easily corrupted. I share your disappointment, but not voting doesn't seem right to me. 

I think things will remain as is by not voting, not the other way around. 

:ranger:


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> Sorry - but what the hell are you talking about?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> ...


Bring me a cup of tea luv, this ones getting interesting,:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

It's one thing buying a house in Nigeria or Vietnam. You should no doubt take extraordinary care. Buying a house in Spain - in a 'modern' part of Europe in the 21st century? How can there be problems? Would you expect problems in Germany or in Denmark? You go to a lawyer, a notary, a town hall and you buy. I don't think that the Brits are stupid when they buy here - quite the reverse. 
But, there is an endemic corruption, fueled and supported by the regional governments. We can ignore it, remain oblivious to it, work around it, go home with out tail between out legs.
Or try to do something about it.
There are (according to the Foreign Office) between 750,000 and one million Brits living in Spain. There are, according to the INE (Spanish statistics office) 335,215 Britons registered on the _padrón_ (well done, everybody!). Of these, 75,600 have registered to vote - and probably intend to. 
I'm really suggesting to these good people, who make up part of the 276,000 Northern Europeans who have asked to vote in the upcoming elections for Europe, to consider the CDL and its two expat candidates - head-of-list Sean O'Curneen and 4th-on-list Jacqui Cotterill. 
Because many foreign-born people do care about Spain.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

lenox said:


> It's one thing buying a house in Nigeria or Vietnam. You should no doubt take extraordinary care. Buying a house in Spain - in a 'modern' part of Europe in the 21st century? How can there be problems? Would you expect problems in Germany or in Denmark? You go to a lawyer, a notary, a town hall and you buy. I don't think that the Brits are stupid when they buy here - quite the reverse.
> But, there is an endemic corruption, fueled and supported by the regional governments. We can ignore it, remain oblivious to it, work around it, go home with out tail between out legs.
> Or try to do something about it.
> There are (according to the Foreign Office) between 750,000 and one million Brits living in Spain. There are, according to the INE (Spanish statistics office) 335,215 Britons registered on the _padrón_ (well done, everybody!). Of these, 75,600 have registered to vote - and probably intend to.
> ...


How can you buy a new home and find part of that land is actually registered in next doors deeds?

That was in England by the way!!

What do you mean up to 3/4 of a million expats aren't even registerd in the Padron? Isn't that arguing against yourself? In fact, as they aren't registered in the country in which they live, what is their legal status in the democratic voting process? These people would then be casting a UK vote....... wouldn't they?

By the way, "You go to a lawyer, a notary, a town hall and you buy". You've just hit the nail on the head!! What happened to the last two and most important steps - Catastro and Registro de Propiedad?


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

lenox said:


> I'm really suggesting to these good people, who make up part of the 276,000 Northern Europeans who have asked to vote in the upcoming elections for Europe, to consider the CDL and its two expat candidates - head-of-list Sean O'Curneen and 4th-on-list Jacqui Cotterill.
> Because many foreign-born people do care about Spain.


NO problem at all this being aired as long as people remain civil with each other but you cannot use this forum to promote one political party - whichever it is. Yes, PLEASE encourage people to use their democratic right to vote but please do not turn this into a Party Political propoganda machine.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I guess Lenox is just stating his point of view. We all have political allegencies, and its an immotive subject aint it.

Anything that actually spurs ex pats over here into voting is good in my eyes


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> I guess Lenox is just stating his point of view. We all have political allegencies, and its an immotive subject aint it.
> 
> Anything that actually spurs ex pats over here into voting is good in my eyes



ABSOLUTELY 

Get out and vote - is totally OK on this forum 

But when an OP starts suggesting we vote for x or y I have to step in. 

ANYTHING that even gets expats involved in the democratic process is good for me!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> I guess Lenox is just stating his point of view. We all have political allegencies, and its an immotive subject aint it.
> 
> Anything that actually spurs ex pats over here into voting is good in my eyes



Well I'm happy to pass on this one. Sorry, but I aint voting, I dont believe in any of it. And even if I were to vote, it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference. IMO if any of these so called parties are any good and without a hidden agenda they'd win on their own merits without the politians trying to "spin", push and tout!

Apathy rules!!


Jo xx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> Well I'm happy to pass on this one. Sorry, but I aint voting, I dont believe in any of it. And even if I were to vote, it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference. IMO if any of these so called parties are any good and without a hidden agenda they'd win on their own merits without the politians trying to "spin", push and tout!
> 
> Apathy rules!!
> 
> Jo xx



Absolutely - and whats more, is the OP seriously implying that us expats should vote for this particularly party on the basis that 2 expats are in the party :lol:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> Absolutely - and whats more, is the OP seriously implying that us expats should vote for this particularly party on the basis that 2 expats are in the party :lol:


... specific information forums arent really the place to perform hustings either are they!

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> ABSOLUTELY
> 
> Get out and vote - is totally OK on this forum
> 
> ...


Are you saying that expats on here cant make their own minds up who to vote for then


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Are you saying that expats on here cant make their own minds up who to vote for then



I repeat "specific information forums and forums such as these arent really the place to perform hustings are they!"

Its good that we're being made aware that there is an election about to take place and that we (you lot, cos as I've said I couldnt be less interested :yuck can discuss it tho.... 

Jo xxx


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Voting is part of living in a modern democratic state. Of course, you can hark back to the good old days when we had a despot running the place, with an army of cut-throats and a public hanging every few days (_wonderful _times, I was just telling my friends down at the pub...). 
But since we will always have some form or other of leaders, I think that democracy is a lot better. 
As to who to vote for - 

The rest was DELETED by Steve as it was turning into a party political broadcast. Even if I agreed with you, you cannot turn this forum into this type of broadcast.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Lenox, I warned you once. You have chosen to ignore me. That is why I have deleted your propoganda. I repeat - to talk about the elections is fine, to encourage the expats (or Spaniards) to vote is fine to set out a party-political broadcast is NOT.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> Voting is part of living in a modern democratic state.
> 
> The rest was DELETED by Steve as it was turning into a party political broadcast. Even if I agreed with you, you cannot turn this forum into this type of broadcast.



Yes and my VOTE goes with Steve for deleting your dribble..


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

The thread is called 'European Elections - Expat Candidates' so I should be allowed to discuss the subject in the body of this thread? 
After all, a 'forum' is about discussion.
Still - if you lot are all committed to 'not-voting', 'not-dicussing' and 'not-participating', then I'm surprised that you haven't pulled the entire thread, and given up the job of 'moderation' which you seem oddly unequipped to do.
'Bye. Y que tengan mucha suerte con lo vuestro.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lenox said:


> The thread is called 'European Elections - Expat Candidates' so I should be allowed to discuss the subject in the body of this thread?
> After all, a 'forum' is about discussion.
> Still - if you lot are all committed to 'not-voting', 'not-dicussing' and 'not-participating', then I'm surprised that you haven't pulled the entire thread, and given up the job of 'moderation' which you seem oddly unequipped to do.
> 'Bye. Y que tengan mucha suerte con lo vuestro.


I'm surer you'll find a "hustings" forum that is more interested in politics and voting that you would be much happier with for this kind of disccussion. 

Steves decision is made on the basis that this is an info forum about moving and living in Spain. Altho vaguely connected to your interest, its not a place where in depth discussions about policies of individual parties is of much interest as you can see from the number of people contributing. So "pulling" the whole thread isnt really necessary

Jo xxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Does anybody else think Zapatero looks like the spitting image of Mr Bean :lol:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> Does anybody else think Zapatero looks like the spitting image of Mr Bean :lol:



I've never seen him, in fact I had to "google" the name when someone was talking about him the other day!! Am I Thick or what :lol:

But YES, that person also referred to him as "Mr. Bean"!!!!!! I shall have a
look!!!!


Jo xxx


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

lenox said:


> The thread is called 'European Elections - Expat Candidates' so I should be allowed to discuss the subject in the body of this thread?
> After all, a 'forum' is about discussion.
> Still - if you lot are all committed to 'not-voting', 'not-dicussing' and 'not-participating', then I'm surprised that you haven't pulled the entire thread, and given up the job of 'moderation' which you seem oddly unequipped to do.
> 'Bye. Y que tengan mucha suerte con lo vuestro.


Please respect the right for people to choose whether they want to vote AND who they vote for. 

Everyone was willing to discuss with you until you have tried your propaganda, so don't tell anyone we are not commited to, as you say, 'not-voting', 'not-dicussing' and 'not-participating'.

The funny thing about the virual world is that people write stuff and hide themselves behind a computer to preserve their identity. lenox, do you know the people from this forum? Do you know what they have done for other people? Do you know if they help to improve the world somehow? All in all it's what politics is (or should be) about: trying to improve our lives and giving everyone the same opportunity to have a decent life. 

I would like to see your political will turned into real improvements (if not yet done so) and I am sure you will be welcome in the political party of your interest. 

You don't need to agree with everything said anywhere. But you need to respect people's opinions, otherwise we would have one political party in the country: yours.


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> ... specific information forums arent really the place to perform hustings either are they!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, I agree, but saying that, I think it would be a good idea if there was a frank and open discusion on the political parties in Spain. At least people moving to Spain would have an idea of what the political parties stand for. I can understand that you have no interest in politics, but some people do like it. :boxing:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mickybob said:


> Jo, I agree, but saying that, I think it would be a good idea if there was a frank and open discusion on the political parties in Spain. At least people moving to Spain would have an idea of what the political parties stand for. I can understand that you have no interest in politics, but some people do like it. :boxing:



tut, tut, tut, Bob, you're not paying attention are you!!!!!!!!! I totally agree with you, but this thread and this guy is about EU politics and the EU up and coming elections. From what I've seen he's a little too biased towards one party and theres no one on here qualified, knowledgable or interested enough to redress the balance. 

I think it would be great if someone with some knowledge could explain Spanish politics to us....... well me


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

The only problem with voting is that you end up with politicians, don't vote, you will only encourage them.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

At the end of the day, the OP was clearly promoting a particular party candidate and supplying web links to that candidate specifically, if anyone actually bothered to look. This is hardly an open discussion about politics in Spain. In fact, I wouldn't even call it stealth campaigning it was so bloody obvious. Let's face it, in the end, it got the attention the OP was looking for - which I think in the end was clearly the point of his post. 

I'm sorry if this seems a harsh view, but I can't stand it when people shake my hand, smile and then try to sell me something. And then to insult my intelligence, pretending it was a simple "chat" - similar to "Isn't it terrible when people die at 55, leaving their young kids behind, how are they going to manage?? - by the way, I'm an insurance salesman"......

Doesn't make the statement wrong - it just makes the approach distasteful in my book.

Right, back to my rum and coke. Rant over. Nice day again, isn't it?!?!

Tally.xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> At the end of the day, the OP was clearly promoting a particular party candidate and supplying web links to that candidate specifically, if anyone actually bothered to look. This is hardly an open discussion about politics in Spain. In fact, I wouldn't even call it stealth campaigning it was so bloody obvious. Let's face it, in the end, it got the attention the OP was looking for - which I think in the end was clearly the point of his post.
> 
> I'm sorry if this seems a harsh view, but I can't stand it when people shake my hand, smile and then try to sell me something. And then to insult my intelligence, pretending it was a simple "chat" - similar to "Isn't it terrible when people die at 55, leaving their young kids behind, how are they going to manage?? - by the way, I'm an insurance salesman"......
> 
> ...



He got a little attention, but it wasnt the right kind in my opinion, I've no idea what he was peddling cos I didnt look, but he seemed to get into such a tantrum when we didnt want to know that it hasnt done himself or what he was saying any favours

Jo xxx


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> tut, tut, tut, Bob, you're not paying attention are you!!!!!!!!! I totally agree with you, but this thread and this guy is about EU politics and the EU up and coming elections. From what I've seen he's a little too biased towards one party and theres no one on here qualified, knowledgable or interested enough to redress the balance.
> 
> I think it would be great if someone with some knowledge could explain Spanish politics to us....... well me


Yes Jo, I am paying attention. Most people are biased toward who they support. So, just because there is no one qualified enough to argue against Lenox, you shut him up? Sorry, I thought democracy was about being able to voice your opinion. It's up to other people to make up their own minds. Now, the point about weather this is the correct forum to air his views, if it aint in the rules, he aint done wrong. If it is, then the thread should have been deleated from the start.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mickybob said:


> Yes Jo, I am paying attention. Most people are biased toward who they support. So, just because there is no one qualified enough to argue against Lenox, you shut him up? Sorry, I thought democracy was about being able to voice your opinion. It's up to other people to make up their own minds. Now, the point about weather this is the correct forum to air his views, if it aint in the rules, he aint done wrong. If it is, then the thread should have been deleated from the start.


I havent shut him up have I??? I havent even read half of what he's even on about, altho the bits I did gleen from it were very much my "my way or no way" which isnt particularly democratic IMO. 

Anyway I just make sure theres no aggression or nastiness and you have to admit, he did stamp his feet a bit.


You cant beat politics or religion for causing upset and disharmony can you, I dont have a lot of time for either I'm afraid, but if Lenox wants to talk about the EU election on here he can, and so can you... carry on, but dont get nasty


Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mickybob said:


> Yes Jo, I am paying attention. Most people are biased toward who they support. So, just because there is no one qualified enough to argue against Lenox, you shut him up? Sorry, I thought democracy was about being able to voice your opinion. It's up to other people to make up their own minds. Now, the point about weather this is the correct forum to air his views, if it aint in the rules, he aint done wrong. If it is, then the thread should have been deleated from the start.


Not that it has any bearing on _this_ forum, but most other forums allow it. For instance on the last American election we obviously had quite a few political threads on various forums, and it was allowed on the basis of freedom of speech. However we made sure that there was only one thread, otherwise it took over the forums 

Me ........ I'm lost with all the political parties around ...... I'd have no idea who to vote for.


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Me ........ I'm lost with all the political parties around ...... I'd have no idea who to vote for.


This is my point, if people did talk about what this party or that party will/wont/said they will/wont do, then people moving to Spain/Cyprus etc etc have some idea about the politics of the country befor they get there. Now, who wants a used soap box, I'm off out for a walk.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

mickybob said:


> Yes Jo, I am paying attention. Most people are biased toward who they support. So, just because there is no one qualified enough to argue against Lenox, you shut him up? Sorry, I thought democracy was about being able to voice your opinion. It's up to other people to make up their own minds. Now, the point about weather this is the correct forum to air his views, if it aint in the rules, he aint done wrong. If it is, then the thread should have been deleated from the start.


Jo did not shut him up. I did. 

I MOST definitely am qualified to argue with OR against Lenox. I am a party-political animal and I have an in-depth knowledge of Spanish politics - so much so that I wanted to stand in the latest municipal elections. With PR here I would have needed ca 1600 votes and as high-profile as I was in Torrevieja but more importantly as the only expat candidate in a town with 50,000+ expats/foreigners/immigrants I feel I could have been elected. 

He is most welcome to announce the elections and he is most welcome to encourage people to vote. He is NOT welcome to use this as a party-political soap-box. 

I was amused when he signed off in Spanish - those of us who are fluent will know why!


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree, if you start off using ustedes you should not change back to vosotros, the possessive pronoun does not correspond with the subject, but frequently people use Spanish incorrectly in odd little phrases on here, at least they are trying so maybe we should give them a chance :tongue:
And I don't think people should be using this forum to promote their political ideas, but I am glad that it has sparked a debate about politics as I believe that if you live here, you should vote, even if it comes down to casting a blank vote if none of the candidates meet up with your aproval. 
I have no doubt that I will get shouted down as I did when I said that I consider that if you live here you should make an effort to learn the language. What I do think is unfair is that if we live here, are residents and registered with our local councils that we can't vote in general and regional elections... 
I'm not greatly interested in politics in general, but if you are part of society there are a series of duties you should accept, voting, imo being one of them...
Right, I'll pass on the soap box to the next one in the queue.
Anles


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

anles said:


> I don't think people should be using this forum to promote their political ideas, but I am glad that it has sparked a debate about politics as I believe that if you live here, you should vote, even if it comes down to casting a blank vote if none of the candidates meet up with your aproval.
> I have no doubt that I will get shouted down as I did when I said that I consider that if you live here you should make an effort to learn the language. What I do think is unfair is that if we live here, are residents and registered with our local councils that we can't vote in general and regional elections...
> I'm not greatly interested in politics in general, but if you are part of society there are a series of duties you should accept, voting, imo being one of them...
> Right, I'll pass on the soap box to the next one in the queue.
> Anles


You wont get shouted down, its a very valid point Anles. But my view is that unless I understand something fully and can see benefits then I dont wanna get involved. In my opinion, once apon a time politics was a vital need for society... it still is to a point, but nowadays its sooooo corrupt and run by so many people who are on the make both finacially and pastorially that quite frankly I prefer not to be part of it. 

Its like religion too many people with hidden agendas trying to force their opinions and rules on others

Jo xxx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Anles, I think 99% of the people on the forum agree with you. 

As for expats learning Spanish well this is my pet hobby-horse so I'd better jump down ¡YA!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

anles said:


> I agree, if you start off using ustedes you should not change back to vosotros, the possessive pronoun does not correspond with the subject, but frequently people use Spanish incorrectly in odd little phrases on here, at least they are trying so maybe we should give them a chance :tongue:
> And I don't think people should be using this forum to promote their political ideas, but I am glad that it has sparked a debate about politics as I believe that if you live here, you should vote, even if it comes down to casting a blank vote if none of the candidates meet up with your aproval.
> I have no doubt that I will get shouted down as I did when I said that I consider that if you live here you should make an effort to learn the language. What I do think is unfair is that if we live here, are residents and registered with our local councils that we can't vote in general and regional elections...
> I'm not greatly interested in politics in general, but if you are part of society there are a series of duties you should accept, voting, imo being one of them...
> ...


Hi you,

Yes we thought it was unfair with my husband who spent over 40 years living and working/contributing (big time) in the UK yet was not able to vote nationally or regionally there. Only local elections and by snail mail on Spanish elections.

They're happy to take your money/taxes though!! On the other hand, it makes sense-ish as a country like England or indeed any country, with large immigration influxes would be a little concerned, given its current proportional representation system, that chunks of the country would be governed by people other than their own citizens. I know it seems unfair, but if you take that point to the ridiculous, you start to understand that there has to be some sort of control else a country could end up with central government run by non-English or indeed non-Spanish individuals.

One could argue that they've cut it too much by making it zero voting in nationals/regionals, but then where would the cut off be? Otherwise in a Europe where anyone can go and work/live anywhere within the EC, things could get very foggy. Maybe it's a question of protecting countries' identity instead of becoming faceless. Maybe one day we will have the already murmured united states of Europe and then who knows what will happen with central governments. Maybe they'll become like today's regionals.

Tally.xx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> Maybe one day we will have the already murmured united states of Europe and then who knows what will happen with central governments. Maybe they'll become like today's regionals.
> 
> Tally.xx


That was always the plan, but of course they didnt think about how it would or could actually work when you try and put several nations into one mix straight away! It was never gonna be an overnight or an easy procedure!

Jo xxx


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi back @ you :tea:
Much as I hate to admit it, I do agree up to a point with you. Not that I hate agreeing with you :tongue: I usually agree with you, but I feel very sorely about not being able to vote having lived here all my life in effect, why would I want to vote in the UK, for one thing, I am not qualified to do so, as I don't even know how politics work there. I suppose I know that the answer is that I should have applied for Spanish citizenship, but for one thing it was important for me that my children had the opportunity to have both nationalities and I have never quite felt ready to take that step. So I must put up and shut up I suppose. I did get away with voting in three elections, as there was a mix up with my details, and although I knew I shouldn't vote, I did, but at the same time I was quite incensed that no one on the electoral table knew the "rules", then I got caught out and got removed from the census which didn't please me either... I'm a hard woman to please, but happily I now am back and being good 
Anles


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

anles said:


> Hi back @ you :tea:
> Much as I hate to admit it, I do agree up to a point with you. Not that I hate agreeing with you :tongue: I usually agree with you, but I feel very sorely about not being able to vote having lived here all my life in effect, why would I want to vote in the UK, for one thing, I am not qualified to do so, as I don't even know how politics work there. I suppose I know that the answer is that I should have applied for Spanish citizenship, but for one thing it was important for me that my children had the opportunity to have both nationalities and I have never quite felt ready to take that step. So I must put up and shut up I suppose. I did get away with voting in three elections, as there was a mix up with my details, and although I knew I shouldn't vote, I did, but at the same time I was quite incensed that no one on the electoral table knew the "rules", then I got caught out and got removed from the census which didn't please me either... I'm a hard woman to please, but happily I now am back and being good
> Anles


Hi Anles,
I also really think it is unfair, particularly in your situation, but I can see Tally's point too. And it has set me thinking about the whole issue of citizenship as that would logically be the next step, but I dont want to have to give up my nationality at this point either. Where you draw the line about who should be eligible to vote is difficult, but I think the issue of citizenship is one that sooner or later is going to have to be faced by all of us who have decided to settle here for good.

In a way, though, not being able to vote in the general election has made me more determined to vote in both the town hall and European elections just because I can. And with the current problems of corruption, not just in property construction, but in all aspects of society, I think it is vital that we do it. Because if their power is not kept in check, politicians will only take advantage of voter apathy to run amok even more. At least if they are under closer scrutiny from alternative parties, they will be under greater pressure. Some of the MEPs are trying to create standards which will protect people from the corrupt in certain issues. A lot of politicians really, really don’t want that – they would lose too much. They need to know that the public are keeping a careful eye on them so that they at least cant always get away with it.

But I haven’t seen any pre-election information in postboxes or elsewhere about the individuals who are actually standing, save for a couple of posters next to the town hall, and nothing about the actual system (so I was quite interested to see Lenox's post - though still didnt find out that much on the web). So there does seem to be a distinct lack of information coming out about this particular election. This is one reason why it is very difficult for any alternative parties to win on their own merit, as they lack the financial and traditional support and the huge publicity machine which the main parties invariably have. 

Usually when there is an important campaign the main two parties are out giving out leaflets, (one in particular even gives out little gifts like ladies compacts or sweets wrapped in the party logo - to kids too, of all things!), so maybe things will hot up next week. I just hope I can find out who's who before June 7th.


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Information on the European elections? You shd probably try another forum!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lenox said:


> Information on the European elections? You shd probably try another forum!


Hey you!? You could I'm sure you could give us information about the european elections, you obviously understand em... I sure as hell dont! I dont think anyone minds talking about it, you can even have an opinion as long as you're gentle with it! Thats the point, a discussion is good, especially amongst people who know each other. 

I'll not be contributing a) cos I dont have a clue and b) apathy  

However I may take a sideways glance and see if theres anything that I can learn???

So go ahead Lenox, tell us about what parties are involved, what its all about and why?? :clap2::clap2:

Jo xxxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> Information on the European elections? You shd probably try another forum!



OK maybe you can tell us what policies EACH party has for starters


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> OK maybe you can tell us what policies EACH party has for starters


....and if that is done in an impartial way I would be the first to thank the OP


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> ....and if that is done in an impartial way I would be the first to thank the OP


Why dont you give us a brief resumé stevie? I keep getting letters thro the post for various parties, not a clue what they are or how they would affect me so they go straight in my bin, but I am getting curious. 


Jo xxx


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> Why dont you give us a brief resumé stevie? I keep getting letters thro the post for various parties, not a clue what they are or how they would affect me so they go straight in my bin, but I am getting curious.
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, do you not get people knocking on the door from the political parties in Spain ???? I cant sit down for 5 mins without another one knocking on my door.Some times I feel like :boxing: them on the nose.:lol::lol: If you tell me they dont come round canvasing, then thats one more reason to move to Spain.:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

We had a meeting today in Mojácar to discuss the 'illegal homes', 'land grab', town hall corruption and other ills as described in the Auken Report (recently approved in the European parliament in Brussels). Around 450 people came, including some groups from Alicante and the Costa del Sol. The Greens (Grupo Ecologista del Mediterraneo), David Hammerstein (MEP) and - oh Dear - Sean O'Curneen CDL head-of-list candidate and expat.
Who spoke very elegantly.
The meeting was organised by the AULAN with the AUN (Anti-Abusos - ¡No!) who had brought several euro-MPs over to Spain in the past (Michael Cashman et al) because of the property fraud problems which have done much to trash Spain's reputation abroad. 
The Priors (whose home was bulldozed down in January 2008 and have been living in a garage ever since) were also present. They have lots of spare time now. 
Various serious speakers discussed the problems regarding the lack of a sensible reaction and policy from the authorities regarding the huge numbers of (wealthy) Northern Europeans who have decided to live here.
I talked about how the Spanish don't need to attend this kind of meeting (almost no one showed) as they know all about us foreigners from reading El País. For example, we Brits like to buy illegal houses and save a few bob. It's true! For example, we all want to go home to England where we have our empty houses waiting for us. For example, there are 330,000 Brits living in Spain (the Foreign Officve reckons 750,000 to one million).
Exciting times.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> We had a meeting today in Mojácar to discuss the 'illegal homes', 'land grab', town hall corruption and other ills as described in the Auken Report (recently approved in the European parliament in Brussels). Around 450 people came, including some groups from Alicante and the Costa del Sol. The Greens (Grupo Ecologista del Mediterraneo), David Hammerstein (MEP) and - oh Dear - Sean O'Curneen CDL head-of-list candidate and expat.
> Who spoke very elegantly.
> The meeting was organised by the AULAN with the AUN (Anti-Abusos - ¡No!) who had brought several euro-MPs over to Spain in the past (Michael Cashman et al) because of the property fraud problems which have done much to trash Spain's reputation abroad.
> The Priors (whose home was bulldozed down in January 2008 and have been living in a garage ever since) were also present. They have lots of spare time now.
> ...


All interesting stuff I'm sure, but what are the policies of the parties in question or don't they have any yet


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lenox said:


> We had a meeting today in Mojácar to discuss the 'illegal homes', 'land grab', town hall corruption and other ills as described in the Auken Report (recently approved in the European parliament in Brussels). Around 450 people came, including some groups from Alicante and the Costa del Sol. The Greens (Grupo Ecologista del Mediterraneo), David Hammerstein (MEP) and - oh Dear - Sean O'Curneen CDL head-of-list candidate and expat.
> Who spoke very elegantly.
> The meeting was organised by the AULAN with the AUN (Anti-Abusos - ¡No!) who had brought several euro-MPs over to Spain in the past (Michael Cashman et al) because of the property fraud problems which have done much to trash Spain's reputation abroad.
> The Priors (whose home was bulldozed down in January 2008 and have been living in a garage ever since) were also present. They have lots of spare time now.
> ...


So thats one party, one issue and one meeting. So what other policies do they have? what do the other parties stand for?

Jo xx


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

I would vote on Xtreme's donkey for the European Parliament! I am sure it will do better than any of the PSOE/PP/IU/etc...      

:juggle:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

scharlack said:


> I would vote on Xtreme's donkey for the European Parliament! I am sure it will do better than any of the PSOE/PP/IU/etc...
> 
> :juggle:


And it would save a fortune in running costs!!!!

Jo xxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> And it would save a fortune in running costs!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Oh yes and Donkeys could play an important part when it comes to Bio Diesel

Could be a talking point with the Green Party that


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> So thats one party, one issue and one meeting. So what other policies do they have? what do the other parties stand for?
> 
> Jo xx


Or is it a secret. The usual reply being,You voted for us, so you must have agreed to our policies, typical polititions.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Lennox your idea of democracy seems a little sqew-ish or should I say biased

1 party, 1 issue is one thing
But we ask you for details on policies relating and you say nothing, nada

Your argument would seem to be "vote for the party that my mates are in" :lol: 


Tell yer wot, wich one'e wearing blue, I'll vote for them - like it makes a diffference


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Again I refer you to the title of this thread. If (and it's apparently a big IF) any of your regular contributors are thinking of voting in the European elections on Sunday, then you should probably start a fresh thread on the different parties available.
I'd be interested to read your expert advice.

I'll sy this - the PP and the PSOE have turned the elections into a two-party anecdote, a good guy - bad guy story. I've seen very little - if any - coverage of the other parties in the Spanish media.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> Again I refer you to the title of this thread. If (and it's apparently a big IF) any of your regular contributors are thinking of voting in the European elections on Sunday, then you should probably start a fresh thread on the different parties available.
> I'd be interested to read your expert advice.
> 
> I'll sy this - the PP and the PSOE have turned the elections into a two-party anecdote, a good guy - bad guy story. I've seen very little - if any - coverage of the other parties in the Spanish media.


Lennox you started this thread by advising people to vote for your mates party, what people want to know (or at least I find it vaguely interesting) is what are their policies, do you know or not ?


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

www.sean2009.es and an interview with him at Euractive.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

so is this thread just about one party in the elections then?? If so, surely this isnt interesting to anybody cos theres nothing to balance it against?????? I thought it would be nice for those of us who dont know or understand to see the alternatiives and make an informed decision.... show us some others??


Jo xxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> www.sean2009.es and an interview with him at Euractive.



After seeing that I will definitely not be voting for him. 
He is so boring, just repeats himself over and over again.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> so is this thread just about one party in the elections then?? If so, surely this isnt interesting to anybody cos theres nothing to balance it against?????? I thought it would be nice for those of us who dont know or understand to see the alternatiives and make an informed decision.... show us some others??
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi Jo,
Yes I would like to know the alternatives and have been trying very hard to find out. I have trawled through the internet and find out some info about which parties are standing but little about their policies. But today, when I was watching TVE-2 there was suddenly an avalanche of 30-second party political broadcasts from all the parties. But they were actually too short to find out anything useful, luckily they were repeated so I could just about catch their name but not much else other than soundbites like "equality", "justice". There were the usual suspects PP, PSOE, CDL (lib dems), Greens, Unida Izquierda, Partida Andalucista, Communist, National Front?!, as well as the Humanist Party (non-violence), MSR (no idea, thought it sounded like a vaccine), Anti-Capitalists, Solidaridad (they showed some pictures of African children and then said abortion was a political crime), and a couple of others whose name and political stance I am still not clear on. So I think at this rate, come Sunday, it's going to be a "pin the tail on the donkey" approach! :lol:


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

I found this somewhere:

Parties in the European Election

INICIATIVA FEMINISTA (iF)
Iniciativa Feminista, más que un partido | Iniciativa Feminista
Feminists

COALICIÓN POR EUROPA (CEU)
Coalición por Europa - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
Coalition for Europe

SOLIDARIDAD Y AUTOGESTIÓN INTERNACIONALISTA (SAIn) 
Partido SAIn - Solidaridad y Autogestión Internacionalista
Solidarity and International self management

PSA-POR LA UNIDAD ANDALUCISTA EN EUROPA (PSA-PARTIDO SOCIALISTA
DE ANDALUCÍA) 
http://www.psa-andalucia.org/
Andalucian Socialist party – for the Unity of Andalucía in Europe

FALANGE ESPAÑOLA DE LAS JONS (FE DE LAS JONS) 
Falange Española de las J.O.N.S - Inicio
JOS Falangist party

EUROPA DE LOS PUEBLOS-VERDES 
Europa de los Pueblos - Verdes - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
Europe of the villages – Green party

IZQUIERDA ANTICAPITALISTA-REVOLTA GLOBAL (IZAN-RG)
Revolta Global
Anticapitalist left, global revolution

PARTIDO POPULAR (PP) 
Inicio - Partido Popular - Elecciones Europeas 2009
Popular Party (almost conservative)

EXTREMADURA UNIDA 
index
United Extremadura

CENTRO DEMOCRÁTICO LIBERAL-PARTIDO EUROPEO DE LOS LIBERALES DEMÓCRATAS Y REFORMISTAS (CDL) 
CDL | Centro Democrático Liberal
European Liberal Party 

UNIO VALENCIANA (UV) 
Documento sin título
United Valencia party

PARTIDO FAMILIA Y VIDA (PFyV) 
Partido Familia y Vida
Family and Life party

UNIÓN CENTRISTA LIBERAL (UCL) 
Union Centrista Liberal PORTADA
Central Liberal Union

PARTIT REPUBLICÀ CATALÀ (RC) 
RC - Partit Republic Catal
Catalan Republican Party

PARTIDO COMUNISTA DE LOS PUEBLOS DE ESPAÑA (PCPE) 
Partido Comunista de los Pueblos de España
Militant Communist Party of the Spanish Towns

UNIÓN PROGRESO Y DEMOCRACIA (UPyD) 
http://www.upyd.es/
Democratic and progressive union

ALTERNATIVA ESPAÑOLA (AES) 
AES - Alternativa Española
ENGLISH PAGE: ALTERNATIVA ESPAÑOLA EL PARTIDO SOCIAL CRISTIANO
Spanish alternative party (Based on traditional Christian values)

FALANGE AUTÉNTICA (FA) 
Falange Autentica
Authentic Falange

POR UN MUNDO MÁS JUSTO (PUM+J) 
Partido Por Un Mundo Más Justo - PUM+J - El fin de la pobreza es posible - ¡ Únete a nosotros ! - Partido Por Un Mundo Más Justo - PUM+J
For a more just world

IZQUIERDA UNIDA-INICIATIVA PER CATALUNYA VERDS-ESQUERRA UNIDA I ALTERNATIVA-BLOQUE POR ASTURIES: LA IZQUIERDA (IU-ICV-EUiA-BA) 
: : Izquierda Unida : :
Northern Spain United Left Coalition

SALAMANCA-ZAMORA-LEÓN (PREPAL) 
Web del Partido Regionalista del Pas Leons PREPAL {SALAMANCA,ZAMORA,LEN}
SALAMANCA-ZAMORA-LEÓN Regional party

CENTRO DEMOCRÁTICO Y SOCIAL (CDS) 
Centro Democrático y Social (CDS)
Social and Democratic Centre party

LIBERTAS-CIUDADANOS DE ESPAÑA (LIBERTAS) 
Libertas-Ciudadanos de España, una coalición necesaria
Spanish Citizens Liberty Party

LOS VERDES-GRUPO VERDE EUROPEO (LV-GVE) 
LOS VERDES / España / Partido Verde Europeo (European Greens)
European Green Party

FRENTE NACIONAL (FN) 
http://www.frentenacional.es/
Spain’s National Front Party

PARTIDO ANTITAURINO CONTRA EL MALTRATO ANIMAL (PACMA) 
PACMA - Partido Antitaurino contra el Maltrato Animal
Animal rights, anti bullfighting party.

PARTIDO SOCIALISTA OBRERO ESPAÑOL (PSOE) 
Este partido se juega en Europa
Spanish Socialist Workers party (The ruling party – Zapatero’s)

MOVIMIENTO SOCIAL REPUBLICANO (MSR)
Movimiento Social Republicano
Republican Socialist movement

UNIDÁ NACIONALISTA ASTURIANA (UNA) 
Da-y voz a Asturies :: Unidá Nacionalista Asturiana (UNA)|Nes elecciones europees, da-y voz a Asturies
Nationalist Asturian Party (regional)

INICIATIVA INTERNACIONALISTA-LA SOLIDARIDAD ENTRE LOS PUEBLOS (II)
Iniciativa Internacionalista
International Solidarity between people party 

DEMOCRACIA NACIONAL (DN) 
DEMOCRACIA NACIONAL
National Democracy party

UNIFICACIÓN COMUNISTA DE ESPAÑA (UCE) 
Untitled Document
Spain’s United Communist party

PARTIDO OBRERO SOCIALISTA INTERNACIONALISTA (POSI)
POSI - Partido Obrero Socialista Internacionalista
International Socialist Workers Party

ANDECHA ASTUR (AA)
ANDECHA ASTUR . Organización política asturiana d'izquierda nacionalista

PARTIDO HUMANISTA (PH)
Partido Humanista de España - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
Humanist party


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lenox said:


> I found this somewhere:
> 
> Parties in the European Election
> 
> ...



hhhmmmm.............will I actually read any of the above I wonder LOL... I wonder if you have either LOL!!!!!

Seriously tho, Thanx Lenox, much appreciated. I'm sure the others will find it of interest and hopefully inwardly digest and summarise!!???

Jo xxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> I found this somewhere:
> 
> Parties in the European Election
> 
> ...


No nos votes
No nos votes
No nos votes
:lol:


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Well at least you got details of the other parties as requested 
Be interesting to see how many people get totally confused when faced with the voting paper


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Well at least you got details of the other parties as requested
> Be interesting to see how many people get totally confused when faced with the voting paper



So how on earth does anyone decide who to vote for?????

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> So how on earth does anyone decide who to vote for?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Exactly, but at least you got some insight into the policies of one party!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Well at least you got details of the other parties as requested
> Be interesting to see how many people get totally confused when faced with the voting paper


Yes, well it wasnt easy I can tell you! Just been to vote and in the end I got absolutely nada in the way of campaign material through the post. Only a voting slip for the two main parties. Any information I could glean about other parties was via searching the internet. And of course, since they didnt send a voting card, its only if you looked on the internet, or voted before, that you would know where to vote. And they didnt even have any signs on the building that it was a polling station.
What kind of fair democracy is this?
It was so intimidating when I did go in and the hostile stares for when I handed over my paper residencia and passport was not pleasant. One of the men at the desk I could see was actually not convinced I could use my residencia and was flicking through a book on guidance notes on voting to check. By the looks of it I was the only foreigner in there. There was a huge amount of voting slips for each party, but with so many parties you could easily get confused and pick up the wrong one.
Well at least I did it.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Yes, well it wasnt easy I can tell you! Just been to vote and in the end I got absolutely nada in the way of campaign material through the post. Only a voting slip for the two main parties. Any information I could glean about other parties was via searching the internet. And of course, since they didnt send a voting card, its only if you looked on the internet, or voted before, that you would know where to vote. And they didnt even have any signs on the building that it was a polling station.
> What kind of fair democracy is this?
> It was so intimidating when I did go in and the hostile stares for when I handed over my paper residencia and passport was not pleasant. One of the men at the desk I could see was actually not convinced I could use my residencia and was flicking through a book on guidance notes on voting to check. By the looks of it I was the only foreigner in there. There was a huge amount of voting slips for each party, but with so many parties you could easily get confused and pick up the wrong one.
> Well at least I did it.


**That's very interesting and thanks for sharing! Although I am not eligible to vote in Los Boliches, Málaga as I am resident in Torrevieja, Alicante I have to concur. I got absolutely ZERO through my post box from anybody at all. One would have hoped that with the crisis people would have at least mobilised themselves to use their democratic right but the only queues I have seen today have been to buy deck-chairs on the beach! 

I am looking forward to the results - if you think that Peter Snow and his "swingometer" are cringeworthy you will not be impressed with Spanish post-election coverage. There will be a dozen self-righteous ex-policticians etc all screaming at each other at the same time without making any attempt to pretend they were listening to what the others were saying. Mmmmm, sounds like EVERY other Spanish programme. Just need his girlfriend AND his wife to turn up to discuss his premature ejaculation and it will be a re-run of every other Spanish "reality" phone-in. Security will drag the gorgeous one off and he will shed crocodile tears of remorse ..... NOT that he is contrite but that he has ended up with the ugly one (because it would cost more to pay her off.) 

Special guests will include Ana Botella, El bigote, Felipe González (lamenting that nobody can rig an election nowadays!) some guy who had once been the mayor PSOE of xyzxyzón but had absconded to the PP because he "believed they offered a more credible programme to the people of his great city" (= he thought he'd have a better chance of bigger bribes) 



The Cantabrian left-handed lentil growers' association make the most valid point of the evening in that as only 12% of the people bothered to vote that nobody is intererested in democracy and in any "civilised" society this whole farce would be inquorate ........................and as they cross Europe for a European overview we relaise that (A) 99% of Spaniards could not care less what happens in Portugal never mind Poland and (B) that Gordon Brown just hopes his nightmare will end. (It will Gordon, quicker than you think!) 


At some stage there will be an outside broadcast and some junior member of the Iglesias family will declare it a great night for democracy and that he looks forward to seeing all his fans at his next show in Toledo on Tuesday evening. (The self-publicity machine rumbles on even here.) Ana Obregón will be interviewed and she will admit that it was a difficult choice (as she had "been rumoured" to have exchanged bodily fluids with all of the main players .....and many of the minority parties too) but she thought the yellow papers were nice so she voted for "them". She is later horrified to find that it is an extreme-right Catholic Front whose single ticket seems to be "Total abstince outside Marriage" The Duquesa de Alba is shown on video and I wonder whether she is going to vote or for her daily botox. (The only person I know who makes my ex mother -in-law look attractice) At that stage Steve falls asleep on the settee ....again. 



ENJOY!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> **That's very interesting and thanks for sharing! Although I am not eligible to vote in Los Boliches, Málaga as I am resident in Torrevieja, Alicante I have to concur. I got absolutely ZERO through my post box from anybody at all. One would have hoped that with the crisis people would have at least mobilised themselves to use their democratic right but the only queues I have seen today have been to buy deck-chairs on the beach!
> 
> I am looking forward to the results - if you think that Peter Snow and his "swingometer" are cringeworthy you will not be impressed with Spanish post-election coverage. There will be a dozen self-righteous ex-policticians etc all screaming at each other at the same time without making any attempt to pretend they were listening to what the others were saying. Mmmmm, sounds like EVERY other Spanish programme. Just need his girlfriend AND his wife to turn up to discuss his premature ejaculation and it will be a re-run of every other Spanish "reality" phone-in. Security will drag the gorgeous one off and he will shed crocodile tears of remorse ..... NOT that he is contrite but that he has ended up with the ugly one (because it would cost more to pay her off.)
> 
> ...


:laugh: Well that does sound a lot more fun than the actual voting experience. But think I might be unable to join in with the "fun" this time as I will no doubt have another pressing engagement that demands attention - like sorting out the plastic bags in the cupboard under the sink.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok, this is probably the most stupid question I've asked..... well, so far!??? But has the winner been announced yet?? Is my life about to change completely??

Jo xxxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Ok, this is probably the most stupid question I've asked..... well, so far!??? But has the winner been announced yet?? Is my life about to change completely??
> 
> Jo xxxx


No, it's not a stupid question. But I think the polls are just about closing now. Looking on the internet I read on one site that Spain had a big turnout 50%? (didnt look that way in Los Boliches I can assure you!) and that it was a two-horse race between the PP and PSOE (conservative and socialists) and it said by the results so far the PP looked as though it would win. Who knows how it will affect our lives - not me - probably only time will tell but also depends who gets in in the rest of Europe - how many of the overall seats go to conservatives, socialists and the other parties that make up the European parliament and how they are going to vote on the various European issues. But maybe someone else will be able to answer that better than I can...:noidea:


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Moderators - it seems to me - should stand in the corner and defend regular values, rights and obligations. They should also - rather obviously - have some clue as to what they are writing about and some inkling of life in Spain.
If they wanted to offer some '_racy'_ view in their own forum, they should probably sign in under a second name. 
Hell - they could even moderate themselves on occasion.
So - all this clever taking the piss on the subject of elections - which is a perfectly normal part of a democracy - should be left to the lumpens - then, you see, you could correct them.
With lots of clever name-dropping from the latest edition of Hola.
When someone starts a thread on basketweaving, does one of you moderators write 'oh how boring, whatalotta tosh and other agreeable if unconstructive remarks?
What a strange forum this is.
Groucho Marx famously sang: 'Whatever it is - I'm against it'
But he was a comedian.
You lot, you're just a joke.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lenox said:


> Moderators - it seems to me - should stand in the corner and defend regular values, rights and obligations. They should also - rather obviously - have some clue as to what they are writing about and some inkling of life in Spain.
> If they wanted to offer some '_racy'_ view in their own forum, they should probably sign in under a second name.
> Hell - they could even moderate themselves on occasion.
> So - all this clever taking the piss on the subject of elections - which is a perfectly normal part of a democracy - should be left to the lumpens - then, you see, you could correct them.
> ...


I take it that your lot didnt win then Lenox!!???

Jo xxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

lenox said:


> Moderators - it seems to me - should stand in the corner and defend regular values, rights and obligations. They should also - rather obviously - have some clue as to what they are writing about and some inkling of life in Spain.
> If they wanted to offer some '_racy'_ view in their own forum, they should probably sign in under a second name.
> Hell - they could even moderate themselves on occasion.
> So - all this clever taking the piss on the subject of elections - which is a perfectly normal part of a democracy - should be left to the lumpens - then, you see, you could correct them.
> ...


The thing about democracy is though, that everyone has the freedom to express a different opinion - I dont agree with a lot of people's opinions on the subject of elections on this forum but I do believe in dialogue based on respect - that means at the very least, without insults.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Lenox, I find your post offensive but as it was presumably intended that way I will not let you get off by starting a mock-debate with you. 

If you ever took the common courtesy to read what other people write, you would see that (a) I am a political animal and (b) am VERY pro measured debate where each person's opinion is respected. OK, I draw the line at Man City supporters but that's not the issue just now. 

As I would have found it very difficult indeed not to have done a total assasination job on one of the main parties (in particular its "leadership") and as I would struggle to find a single cogent argument in the manifestos of many (all?) of the others I took a view that as a moderator I should shut up lest my political knowledge/debate should sway the members of this forum. THAT would NOT have been democratic. Having studied politics at university, I have seen the alternative "systems" and demcrcacy wins - so let's not abuse the tools of the democracy. 

So, despite criticisms of your propoganda both on and off group, I took the decision to let you continue. Perhaps you would have preferred that I deleted your posts and you could then (a) abuse me and (b) cry "Martyr, victim" ....or whatever you get off on.

In the end, ALL we have seen from you is a list culled from another web-site and a huge amount of party-political propoganda on behalf of ONE party - your preferred choice. This, despite the fact that several people have ASKED you politely for some general information. 

I have no idea whether you have ever sat through post-election autoposies in Spain - I have. I do not even know whether your Spanish is up to the finer points of a dozen people bickering at each other at the same time - mine is. In fact, I actually quite like them in the same way that I can admit to having watched the Eurovision, suffered England's cricketers' pathetic attempts over 50 years to play against genuine pace attacks and even to buying a Donny Osmond record ......and I am sure I will be up late tonight. Now, not even TVE's most staunch supporters would claim that these slanging matches are quality television. If you wish to defend them, please start a new and apolitical thread about La Sexta's coverage or whatever. Sadly, tonight I will not be able to watch Punt 9. Which channel will you be watching?


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

lenox said:


> Moderators - it seems to me - should stand in the corner and defend regular values, rights and obligations. They should also - rather obviously - have some clue as to what they are writing about and some inkling of life in Spain.
> 
> You lot, you're just a joke.



Now, now, lets not throw the rattle out the pram 

One idea could be that you apply to be a moderator

or alternatively we could have a vote on it 

Thinking democratically of course - lol


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

My son who is 30 and has never voted will commence on a Social and Political Studies course at University in September. I rarely meet anyone who has a grasp of politics, and that includes most of the politicians that I have met, so perhaps knowing nothing about the subject will be an advantage to him.

I voted UKIP this time, I honesty believe that the EU has become a useless giant that constanty requires feeding, with the bill landing on us. OK, so if the UK opted out you guys would require visa's, that's not the end of the world is it? The Euro is put under threat every time a new member state is accepted as a member of the single currency. 75% of UK laws are instigated and passed within the EU, Churchill must be spinning in his grave.


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Now, now, lets not throw the rattle out the pram
> 
> One idea could be that you apply to be a moderator
> 
> ...



How does one apply to be a Moderator and what's the money like :eyebrows:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mayotom said:


> How does one apply to be a Moderator and what's the money like :eyebrows:


You need to be educated to degree level, take several exams and undertake a lot of interviews!! but the money is more than enough to live a very pampered lifestyle 

Jo xxx


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> You need to be educated to degree level, take several exams and undertake a lot of interviews!! but the money is more than enough to live a very pampered lifestyle
> 
> Jo xxx



dammm ... I'm over qualified.....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mayotom said:


> dammm ... I'm over qualified.....


me too, but you know how it is.... LOL!!!!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

lenox said:


> Moderators - it seems to me - should stand in the corner and defend regular values, rights and obligations. They should also - rather obviously - have some clue as to what they are writing about and some inkling of life in Spain.
> If they wanted to offer some '_racy'_ view in their own forum, they should probably sign in under a second name.
> Hell - they could even moderate themselves on occasion.
> So - all this clever taking the piss on the subject of elections - which is a perfectly normal part of a democracy - should be left to the lumpens - then, you see, you could correct them.
> ...


Lenox, having read, in the past, some of your crap, I don't think you are particularly well qualified to comment. Neither am I! Maybe you should go back to ASF


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> I guess Lenox is just stating his point of view. We all have political allegencies, and its an immotive subject aint it.
> 
> Anything that actually spurs ex pats over here into voting is good in my eyes


Yes that is how I have read his comments/posts.

On a general note......
So he is asking that ex-pats consider a couple of candidates who he finds of interest & worthy of consideration ?
Well from my perspective I will take note & consider his choice as I know that he is passionate about Spain & is often campaigning for ex-pats rights (from his knowledgeable writings)
He makes a valid point that we have a duty to sign on the padron/sign on to vote as then our voice/concerns will be felt & heard, in fact in my pueblo the current mayor only scrapped in with the immigrant vote (after a recount) and ousted the sitting corrupt muppet.
As a result he has proven to be an excellent mayor who is appreciative of the ex-pats who made this possible.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

you do all realise that this thread was started in 2009 & lenox hasn't posted for getting on for 9 months.................

I wonder if the candidates he was pushing were successful in getting in -& if so if they were actually any good?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> you do all realise that this thread was started in 2009 & lenox hasn't posted for getting on for 9 months.................
> 
> I wonder if the candidates he was pushing were successful in getting in -& if so if they were actually any good?


I don't know about the Euro elections but it appears his Ciudadanos Europeos party does have some seats on the Ayuntamiento in Mojacar:

Ciudadanos Europeos de Mojácar


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## lenox (May 26, 2009)

Yes, I'm still going. I didn't find much of interest here (despite girlylocks' amusing comment on our local political webpage). 
Suerte!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

lenox said:


> Yes, I'm still going. I didn't find much of interest here (despite girlylocks' amusing comment on our local political webpage).
> Suerte!


Keep up the good work Lenox and please post again. Can't agree with your political views but I like people who have opinions and try to do something to resolve injustice :boxing:


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