# Living together



## mael (May 7, 2013)

Considering to move to Dubai where boyfriend already works. I know its official illegal to live together not married. can anybody share some thoughts ? I have read news about you need a tenancy agreement to get a visa, but my boyfriend hasn't experienced that.

In terms of sponsoring Im looking for a job before moving so not relevant, more the questions whether you can live "safely" together

Thanks


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

These threads might help in answering your questions:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/dubai-expat-forum-expats-living-dubai/141374-marriage.html
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...hip-avoiding-law-thinking-about-marriage.html
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...bai/123614-unmarried-couple-moving-dubai.html
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...unmarried-couples-live-together-ok-dubai.html


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

If you are careful the risk is minimal in DXB

Don't upset your neighbours with all night parties etc that attract the attention of the police and loads of people live together unmarried for years. 

In AD the tenancy contract is only needed if you are being sponsored by a spouse who is working. Not sure if the same in DXB but expect so. Anyway it's irrelevant in your situation as your bf can't sponsor you. You need your own job/visa. For a work visa you don't need a tenancy contract of your own.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I have to ask this and I dont mean any disrespect to anyone, but over the years I've been on the forum this question has popped up several times. So why dont people simply get married if its going to be an issue - which it could well be, afterall, it is technically illegal?????

Jo xxx


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## fraz1776 (Feb 16, 2012)

jojo said:


> I have to ask this and I dont mean any disrespect to anyone, but over the years I've been on the forum this question has popped up several times. So why dont people simply get married if its going to be an issue - which it could well be, afterall, it is technically illegal?????
> 
> Jo xxx




That's what me and my gf are doing, she was going to try and get a job herself and move over to be with me but her brother was googling all these horror stories about people getting caught and jailed so we just decided to have a small secret wedding when I go home just to be safe. It also makes everything so much easier, she'll get a visa through me, getting a job will be easier and she'll get flights and medical through my company.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

jojo said:


> I have to ask this and I dont mean any disrespect to anyone, but over the years I've been on the forum this question has popped up several times. So why dont people simply get married if its going to be an issue - which it could well be, afterall, it is technically illegal?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Like so many ME issues it is a very grey area

marrying before you move (if possible) is undoubtably something a lot of people consider. A lot of western couples posting here will probably be youngish and marriage has huge financial implications in most western countries

Marriage is something most people jump into even less eagerly than the whole move here imo


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Jumeirah Jim said:


> Like so many ME issues it is a very grey area


If you take 'grey' to mean, it's fine until someone finds out about/investigates/finally catches you, and that quite a few people do it and get away with it. Then yes it is a 'grey' area. 

Per the letter of the law, there is nothing 'grey' about unmarried couples cohabiting, it's rather cut and dry towards being illegal and punishable under the law of the land. Having said that, anyone wondering whether the authorities actively look to seek out and investigate such, that is not the case. Which is why so many people do it, and are fine if they are careful.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jumeirah Jim said:


> Marriage is something most people jump into even less eagerly than the whole move here imo


 Hhhmmm, that doesnt make sense to me - move half way round the world to a very different country and culture with someone who you dont want to commit to - sign a tenancy agreement together, but not a marriage certificate???? 

Jo xxx


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

jojo said:


> Hhhmmm, that doesnt make sense to me - move half way round the world to a very different country and culture with someone who you dont want to commit to - sign a tenancy agreement together, but not a marriage certificate????
> 
> Jo xxx


Welllllll when you say it like thaaat.....

I share your perspective... and as saraswat said, under Islamic law its a sin to cohabit without being wed, and hence, illegal and a criminal offence, and if caught, there will be consequences... apparently a year in jail and deportation...

Options:

1. Don't get caught - keep under the radar, but be prepared to face the downside if you are found out
2. Move somewhere else
3. Get married

Pretty simple really

Living together in the UAE? Think twice | GulfNews.com


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

jojo said:


> Hhhmmm, that doesnt make sense to me - move half way round the world to a very different country and culture with someone who you dont want to commit to - sign a tenancy agreement together, but not a marriage certificate????
> 
> Jo xxx


Exactly my thoughts. Commitment is a word long forgotten in most modern relationships.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Exactly my thoughts. Commitment is a word long forgotten in most modern relationships.


Marriage is (meant to be) for life. Moving to be an expat in DXB for most people is only intended to be a relatively short term thing (though lots of us said that and are still here years later that wasn't the original intention often). Tenancy contracts are for just 1 year. 

On the ME laws point lots of the laws here say all sorts of crazy things which in practice are never/almost never enforced/so unclear it is impossible to know what you can or can't do. 

Living here is all about treading a balancing line and taking sensible balanced risks based on your assessment of the situation. As an example I did (and still would) live with an unmarried partner in DXB but I would not risk that in AD when such things are taken more seriously.


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## Juu (Jan 22, 2013)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Exactly my thoughts. Commitment is a word long forgotten in most modern relationships.


Well, if you consider that getting married is just an easy and convenient decision to live with your girlfriend, then I am not sure that you understand either the definition of commitment.


If you need to move to another country and face a legal situation to get married, I personally think this is wrong.


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

jojo said:


> I have to ask this and I dont mean any disrespect to anyone, but over the years I've been on the forum this question has popped up several times. So why dont people simply get married if its going to be an issue - which it could well be, afterall, it is technically illegal?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Quite simply for many, that's getting married for the 'wrong' reason. Being forced to, not because you want to. Plus in many other countries where you now have common law marriages, where partnerships are recognized without being married, personally I think more people are less inclined to do it these days.

You don't need a 'piece of paper' to show you're in a committed, loving relationship.

Also to add, to renew a company sponsorship, you now do have to provide a tenancy contract in your name - several work mates have just come across this stumbling block.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Juu said:


> Well, if you consider that getting married is just an easy and convenient decision to live with your girlfriend, then I am not sure that you understand either the definition of commitment.
> 
> 
> If you need to move to another country and face a legal situation to get married, I personally think this is wrong.


Then you should maybe think twice about moving to a country where its illegal to "live in sin"??????? If marriage is too serious to contemplate, then maybe moving to Dubai should be??? Just my thoughts and I'm not judging anyone

Jo xxxx


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

jojo said:


> If marriage is too serious to contemplate,


But that's the point. Why does having a piece of paper, make a relationship within a marriage any more serious than a couple who isn't married?


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## Juu (Jan 22, 2013)

jojo said:


> Then you should maybe think twice about moving to a country where its illegal to "live in sin"??????? If marriage is too serious to contemplate, then maybe moving to Dubai should be??? Just my thoughts and I'm not judging anyone
> 
> Jo xxxx


You didn't get my point, I was commenting on "what is commitment". So many people get married for a wrong reason, and I do not call that commitment. 

Chocoholic 100% expressed my thoughts. My first like will go to her/him


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chocoholic said:


> You don't need a 'piece of paper' to show you're in a committed, loving relationship.


 Thats the point, you do in Dubai!!! 

If its just about "a piece of paper" and that makes living as a couple legal in Dubai, then why not??? Its just "a piece of paper" - no biggie and makes life a lot more relaxed. Or maybe look at living in a country where its not illegal????

Jo xxx


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

jojo said:


> Thats the point, you do in Dubai!!!
> 
> If its just about "a piece of paper" and that makes living as a couple legal in Dubai, then why not??? Its just "a piece of paper" - no biggie and makes life a lot more relaxed. Or maybe look at living in a country where its not illegal????
> 
> Jo xxx


Well the authorities turn a blind eye, because they know they have to! If they were to enforce it, it would be economical suicide as people just wouldn't come here.

Sadly you still don't seem to understand that getting hitched for a piece of paper isn't what marriage is about, nor can you avoid places because of things like that.

So many things are deemed 'illegal' here, but they still happen.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Western expats comprise a very small percentage of Dubai's population.

Western expats who cohabitat is even smaller.

The authorities turn a blind eye because it's too much of a hassle to to chase down every cohabitating couple. Not because it'd be economic suicide, which it wouldn't be because a very small number out of the overall Dubai population would be affected. It wouldn't stop most western expats from coming here, certainly not the married ones or the single ones without a partner. 

You may not need a piece of paper to prove that you're in a committed relationship (almost everyone who says that seems to be male....hmm, and conveniently ignores that the act of getting married is a cultural statement that has a great deal more implication that just a 'piece of paper'.)

But there is something to be said about respecting the laws of the country you elect to live in. Yes, I'm aware it's a grey area just like drinking without a licence, but like with the other grey areas it's entirely at your risk. 




Chocoholic said:


> Well the authorities turn a blind eye, because they know they have to! If they were to enforce it, it would be economical suicide as people just wouldn't come here.
> 
> Sadly you still don't seem to understand that getting hitched for a piece of paper isn't what marriage is about, nor can you avoid places because of things like that.
> 
> So many things are deemed 'illegal' here, but they still happen.


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

TallyHo, why do you only refer to western expats? I can assure you there are plenty of others co-habiting, many arabs certainly do unmarried and of nationalities that come from far stricter nations than this one - and even locals. Plus if they enforced it, you can imagine what it would do to the tourism industry.

FYI, I'm female AND married!

Plus these conversations start to grate, when I consider how many innocent lives of children have been lost because of these laws!!!

There's hypocrisy everywhere.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

'I consider how many innocent lives of children have been lost because of these laws!!!'

What does this have to do with cohabitating?

End of the day, it's the law of this country. The overwhelming majority of Dubai's population (including by far most of my single western friends) are not cohabitating outside marriage. 

If you still want to cohabitat despite knowing it's illegal, there's nothing you can do about it if you're caught. That's why it's entirely at your risk. 







Chocoholic said:


> TallyHo, why do you only refer to western expats? I can assure you there are plenty of others co-habiting, many arabs certainly do unmarried and of nationalities that come from far stricter nations than this one - and even locals. Plus if they enforced it, you can imagine what it would do to the tourism industry.
> 
> FYI, I'm female AND married!
> 
> ...


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

yes of course people should know the 'potential' risks. It's the scare mongering, because incidents are rare.

What does childrens lives lost have to do with it? Pick up a paper and see how many children have died or been murdered recently - due to home deliveries, because the parents are scared because the child was conceived out of wedlock! It's ALL relevant.

Why only today: A couple are accused of delivering their love child at home and then hiding her existence from the authorities for more than eight years | 7 Days Dubai

And this is a local!

Plus the 'overwhelming majority of Dubai's population' are blue collar workers living in labour camps/company accommodation. The majority of the population are from the sub-continent.

Sweeping statements give false impressions and are misleading - at best.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You're scaremongering just as bad as anyone else.

Regardless of what one thinks about the laws and the harsh treatment that applies if caught, it is still the law and one must sensibly recognise the risks if they chose to break the law. 

I do have sympathy for people caught in a tight corner, but one can also easily say well, 'they shouldn't have been having sex outside marriage' blah blah blah, but I don't take that sanctimonious view and I certainly won't punish people for it.

But I am fully aware that the UAE is 'their' country and 'their' culture and they have elected to pass the laws which currently stands. There is nothing that we, as individuals and especially as expats, can do about the laws and the punishments involved. 





Chocoholic said:


> yes of course people should know the 'potential' risks. It's the scare mongering, because incidents are rare.
> 
> What does childrens lives lost have to do with it? Pick up a paper and see how many children have died or been murdered recently - due to home deliveries, because the parents are scared because the child was conceived out of wedlock! It's ALL relevant.
> 
> ...


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

Scaremongering how exactly? When I've always said quite clearly, that people should be aware that there are consequences, laws, rules and they should be aware of them. I certainly do not say - you MUST do this before you come here, otherwise this will happen to you - as some others have.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You seem very passionate about this issue.

I'd like to correct you on a few points.

You wrote: The 'overwhelming majority of Dubai's population' are blue collar workers living in labour camps/company accommodation.'

Incorrect. Labourers don't make up the majority. 

You _are _correct that the majority _are _from South Asia - Indians and Pakstanis, people, who for cultural reasons regardless of which religion they follow, generally don't cohabitat outside marriage.

I'm not sure how I'm making sweeping statements that 'give false impressions and are misleading - at best.'

Your implication when you wrote: 'I can assure you there are plenty of others co-habiting, many arabs certainly do unmarried and of nationalities that come from far stricter nations than this one - and even locals', whether you meant it or not, was that cohabitation is very common and among all types of people. But it really isn't. Some people do cohabitat as we define the term - a couple in a committed relationship living together outside marriage, but they are a distinct minority among Dubai's population. 

Many people who cohabitat do get away with it because they are discreet and, yes, because they are Westerners. 

But we both can easily agree that not only is it illegal, but that if you are caught the penalties can be severe. 



Chocoholic said:


> Scaremongering how exactly? When I've always said quite clearly, that people should be aware that there are consequences, laws, rules and they should be aware of them. I certainly do not say - you MUST do this before you come here, otherwise this will happen to you - as some others have.


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

TallyHo said:


> Many people who cohabitat do get away with it because they are discreet and, yes, because they are Westerners.


Whilst I give you 'most' of the rest of it, I certainly do not agree with this. Yes they get away because they are discreet, but the certainly are NOT all westerners. I really don't know where you get that notion from. You seem to be under some false illusion that only westerners co-habit. No they don't. I know plenty of other nationalities who do and who are muslim as well. Plus where someone comes from is really irrelevant to begin with so it's a moot point.

And that to be honest is where I'm leaving this, as it's moot and will just go round and round.

*somebody pass the wine*


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I never said only westerners cohabitat. 

But I have observed that many people make their assumptions and observations about life in Dubai based on a fairly narrow group of people - such as Westerners who live in the affluent expatriate neighbourhoods and forget that much of the city lives differently and operates by different standards. Many westerners may speak of multiculturalism and exposure to other nationalities but even then it's still going to be a small slice of affluent, generally more progressive, more 'westernised' of those nationalities. In short, what passes muster among rich Pakistani girls living in the Marina wouldn't cut the cake in Al Nahda or Al Ghusais or Karama, where the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis live by quite different standards.

Still, the unpleasant reality is that while it's possible for westerners to get away with bending some of the UAE's laws, it's much riskier for non-Westerners, especially Muslim non-westerners, to violate the alcohol and cohabitating laws. 




Chocoholic said:


> Whilst I give you 'most' of the rest of it, I certainly do not agree with this. Yes they get away because they are discreet, but the certainly are NOT all westerners. I really don't know where you get that notion from. You seem to be under some false illusion that only westerners co-habit. No they don't. I know plenty of other nationalities who do and who are muslim as well. Plus where someone comes from is really irrelevant to begin with so it's a moot point.
> 
> And that to be honest is where I'm leaving this, as it's moot and will just go round and round.
> 
> *somebody pass the wine*


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chocoholic said:


> Well the authorities turn a blind eye, because they know they have to! If they were to enforce it, it would be economical suicide as people just wouldn't come here.
> 
> Sadly you still don't seem to understand that getting hitched for a piece of paper isn't what marriage is about, nor can you avoid places because of things like that.
> 
> So many things are deemed 'illegal' here, but they still happen.



Marriage is a contract and the certificate proves its legal and binding! To refuse to get married is saying to the world - I dont love/trust/want this person enough to commit isnt it??? Thats fine in countries where it doesnt matter. But in Dubai, thats how it is. You cohabit, you obviously care about each other to stay witrh each other in a different country. So why not get married?? I guess I sometimes think its more of a "dont tell me what to do" issue than a logical issue. And lets be honest - these days, marriages are just as easy to get out of than cohabiting anyway - divorce is the easy bit lol 

Jo xxx


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Guys please let us not inadvertently represent the wrong scenario to new members, specially for something like this, that could have major repercussions if one finds them in a mess with the authorities. 

For something to be a 'grey area'. it would have to be ambiguous, not clear, not clearly defined in the law. 

That is most certainly not, the case with cohabitation in the U.A.E. There is nothing, absolutely nothing 'grey' about cohabitation without marriage being illegal and punishable under the law. 

The fact that quite a few people do it and get away with it, or that the authorities do not search/research everyone to make sure they are duly wed in case of cohabitation, or that some seem to end up with less stiff penalties as others, does again not make the law a 'grey area'.

p.s: this should not be taken to mean I agree/disagree with the law, just stating the facts as they apply in this case.


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

saraswat said:


> The fact that quite a few people do it and get away with it, or that the authorities do not search/research everyone to make sure they are duly wed in case of cohabitation, or that some seem to end up with less stiff penalties as others, does again not make the law a 'grey area'


Completely agree and I think that's really the point a lot of people are trying to make... but to add, there is a level of "oversight" although it may not be intentional, that when people need to renew their residence visa's and are required to come up with a tenancy contract...

Your own personal belief's aside, if you do decide to settle down in a different country, regardless if you were to take the position of what constitutes a "commitment" the fact of the matter is, in Islamic law, the position is crystal clear... if you cohabit without being wed in the eyes of the law, its a punishable offence, regardless of what your personal belief's are...

And this does not just stop at the whole marriage thing, and extends to other aspects too...

Lets say there is a hypothetical *cough* individual, lets call him "cami"... and lets say this person was born in a religious denomination where alcohol is forbidden and the consumption of pork products earns you a straight ticket to the underworld... and lets say that "cami" has been known to enjoy the occasional drink and ham sandwich... just because no one asks cami to produce his alcohol license at hotels when cami orders a drink, cami is under no misconception that its considered "ok", and if cami was to get drunk and make an ass of himself, then cami would get into hot water...

Just because everyone looks the other way does not mean there is acceptance, just indifference...


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