# solicitors



## jsun (Feb 8, 2015)

Just received a big bill from our Portuguese solicitor by email ,i asked for a written copy with itemisation for our records and was told no by him, is this the way things work in portugal or is there anything I can do to get a proper bill thanks


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

jsun said:


> Just received a big bill from our Portuguese solicitor by email ,i asked for a written copy with itemisation for our records and was told no by him, is this the way things work in portugal or is there anything I can do to get a proper bill thanks


If a bill has been issued, it should be titled Factura, dated(1) and number coded(2), it should have your details(3) including your Fiscal Number.(4)
It can be quite detailed or quite vague, the wording will depend on your discussions with your Lawyer, what it must contain is the IVA element(5), separately shown.

If these, that is 1 to 5 are missing then a Factura has not been generated and so you owe nothing.

Go back and ask again for an itemised Factura.
If you need more then let the Expat collective on here know what you want.

HTH

Rob


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## jsun (Feb 8, 2015)

robc said:


> If a bill has been issued, it should be titled Factura, dated(1) and number coded(2), it should have your details(3) including your Fiscal Number.(4)
> It can be quite detailed or quite vague, the wording will depend on your discussions with your Lawyer, what it must contain is the IVA element(5), separately shown.
> 
> If these, that is 1 to 5 are missing then a Factura has not been generated and so you owe nothing.
> ...


Thanks I'll do that tomorrow don't think he'll be receptive he has refused so far but if he wants his money then so be it thank you .


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The easy answer is to simply refuse to pay it until he gives you the itemised bill you require.


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## jsun (Feb 8, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> The easy answer is to simply refuse to pay it until he gives you the itemised bill you require.


Thanks for your reply if only it was that easy I feel guilty to not pay straight away it just hard to know your legal rights in another country's legal system.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

jsun said:


> Thanks for your reply if only it was that easy I feel guilty to not pay straight away it just hard to know your legal rights in another country's legal system.


A little bit of anecdotal here !!!
Some and I do stress some but not by any means all Portuguese are, despite their protestations, crafty as a cart load of monkeys.
They have and will do everything they can to improve their circumstances.........and to this end they know that foreigners are good business.


We settle our accounts quickly.......much quicker than locals
Many foreigners do not have an understanding of the importance of a NIF Number on an Invoice which means that some highly unscrupulous traders charge IVA and then do not pay it to the state.
Many foreigners do not know their rights and are not keen to "rock the boat" for getting a bad reputation.

I say b******s to that, stand your ground, I do frequentl,y and never ever ever accept the first judgement or opinion on any matter.

There is an belief that most Portuguese tradesmen become your friends, they do, but many because they are forever coming back to fix things that should have been done right first time.
Think of Portugal as England with plenty of sunshine and follow your instincts, if something looks "fishy" it is probably because it is.

HTH

Rob


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## jsun (Feb 8, 2015)

robc said:


> A little bit of anecdotal here !!!
> Some and I do stress some but not by any means all Portuguese are, despite their protestations, crafty as a cart load of monkeys.
> They have and will do everything they can to improve their circumstances.........and to this end they know that foreigners are good business.
> 
> ...


 thanks my husband is portuguese but doesn't have a fiscal number but the case is with his sister who has one and the bail is shared can we just use hers sorry to be a pain and ask so many questions .


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

jsun said:


> thanks my husband is portuguese but doesn't have a fiscal number but the case is with his sister who has one and the bail is shared can we just use hers sorry to be a pain and ask so many questions .


I am not sure but I would just check but I think it would be OK

Bail ????

Not sure I understand this.

Rob


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## jsun (Feb 8, 2015)

robc said:


> I am not sure but I would just check but I think it would be OK
> 
> Bail ????
> 
> ...


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

jsun said:


> robc said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure but I would just check but I think it would be OK
> ...


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## Aronsky (Jan 18, 2015)

jsun said:


> Just received a big bill from our Portuguese solicitor by email ,i asked for a written copy with itemisation for our records and was told no by him, is this the way things work in portugal or is there anything I can do to get a proper bill thanks


My friend had a similar problem with a lawyer.

You must ask your lawyer to fully itemise every thing he has done for you, in the finest detail. It is your right to have this. After all, you wouldn't go to a supermarket and expect not to know what it is you have been charged for. He could present any old figure.

My friend was told it is not lawful of a lawyer to simply ask for his fee in an email. He must present it on his company's letterhead, with itemisation, and, most importantly, there must be IVA breakdown and his NIF number.

Be very wary of a lawyer who is sending you an email simply stating "you owe me XXXX euros".

The Ordem dos Advogados is a body similar to the Law Society in the UK. You can always complain to them if your lawyer refuses to itemise your bill. But you must write to them in Portuguese as they don't accept complaints in English.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm also sure that a lawyer must have a complaint book just like any other business so you could always go that route as well.


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