# Medical Facilities



## Shoes (Dec 11, 2012)

How affordable are medical cost there in Mexico? Dental too?

Thanks, Steve


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## Souper (Nov 2, 2011)

How affordable is relative, but it is usually much less than USA costs, many expats are happy to walk in, pay cash that is less than most deductibles if one has insurance. 

There is a medical tourism industry for people wanting low priced services throughout Mexico and other countries, one can get anything from cosmetic to heart surgery. 
IMHO some procedures are not for the faint of heart.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

There are cosmetic surgeons in Guadalajara, board certified in the US, as well, that advertise facelifts, along with a recuperative stay in a VERY nice hotel, complete with care, for about $5000 US.

Compare that to my mother in law's $18K for outpatient facelift at her local hospital.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Shoes said:


> How affordable are medical cost there in Mexico? Dental too?
> 
> Thanks, Steve


Broad-brush answer? Medical and Dental costs are lower than what one typically pays in the USA. Coupled with the cost question ought to be one regarding quality. And my answer to that, on a national scale in Mexico ... is "not very good" in comparison (with the USA and Canada). If you have pre-existing conditions about which you have concern regarding continuing care once you arrive in Mexico, select the location as to where you will live ... carefully. The best overall healthcare options are probably found in Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey.


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## Queretaro (Dec 6, 2008)

I know of people who have come here to Querétaro to get a root canal because even after the flight, 1 week hotel stay, meals and the operation it was still cheaper than getting it done in the U.S. (not sure if they had dental coverage or not). 

I hope this helps.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

The cost of healthcare depends on the city and the hospital. Private hospitals here in Mexico are considered the best and therefore more expensive than others. Most doctors in these hospitals are board certified in the U.S.
I had cataract surgery several years ago at Hospital Angeles in Tijuana and was very impressed with healthcare compared to the U.S. which is way overpriced and quality is not so great. A lot of Americans are unaware that U.S. healthcare is NOT in th top 5 in the world for quality so it is a misleading statement that the U.S. healthcare is better. I've know several people who had various procedures done here in Mexico and are very happy with the results; not to mention much less expensive than in the U.S.
Just as with American healthcare, you have to do your homework. There are plenty of bad doctors in the U.S. just as in any other country. The U.S. is NOT immune to bad doctors contrary to what some Americans might think.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

> Most doctors in these hospitals are board certified in the U.S.


Not true at all. A few Dr.s in all of Mexico are board certified in the US or were at one time. I am up to my neck with doctors and the administration of the Secretaria de Salud here and the IMSS in Mexicali for many years. The misconceptions about DRs and Mexico´s medical system, public and private, and their Medical university system is astounding to me, at times. Alan

Tonight we are going to a Dr´s award ceremony to participate in a family friend´s DR. son get an award. "example"


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> > Most doctors in these hospitals are board certified in the U.S.
> 
> 
> Not true at all. A few Dr.s in all of Mexico are board certified in the US or were at one time.


 Most and few need metrics. 

In those hospitals that offer care under the label of "medical tourism", they have many doctors that are US board certified. But just because they are not certified in the US does not mean that they do not have any certification. Of the doctors I know of, they choose between the US and Spain for advanced specialty study or internship. Certification in Spain is excellent certification. 

Even in private hospitals, the cost will be lower for, at least, two reasons. No or very low malpractice insurance and all patients pay their bill before leaving the hospital. Some hospitals will require payment before admittance.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Before I started paying for private health insurance, I fell and broke my right wrist very badly. It required surgery and 3 nights stay in a good private hospital plus a couple of months of follow-up visits with the surgeon. In 2008 in Mexico City, the bill for all of this came to about $40,000 MN, which at the current exchange rate is a bit over $3000 USD. I did have to pay the entire bill before checking out of the hospital.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Queretaro said:


> I know of people who have come here to Querétaro to get a root canal because even after the flight, 1 week hotel stay, meals and the operation it was still cheaper than getting it done in the U.S.


I suspect they're not very bright people. I believe you in relating the story, but I don't believe the people who claimed this to be true.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I had my second to last root canal done in the US in 2008. The whole procedure with prep-work, root canal and crown came to about $3000 US.

I just had another one done here and it was even more work due to some complications. The whole package, done by one of the most respected (and expensive) dentists here in Guanajuato, cost me under $9000 MX or less than $700 USD.

For that difference of $2300 USD one could certainly fly down and spend a week here and enjoy themselves. As a matter of fact, a certain chunk of this dentist's business is just that -- Americans that fly down to have him do work on them.

So, what the previous poster said about Queretaro holds true here in Guanajuato as well.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

I am referring to the PRIVATE HOSPITALS such as Angeles.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Elimination of the Medical Insurance Industry?*

Hi Joaquinx;

Yes the elimination of the Medical Insurance Industry would prove to lower Health Care Costs in the USA greatly.

Some Doctor's don't get paid for 5 months from Medicare for some procedures - and then because a coma is out of place or not quite stated exactly as the Insurance Co or Medicare expects to see it - they don't get paid. The cost for all of this for Doctor's in the USA is crazy.

I was reading one Analyst's account and his theory that the cost burden for Malpractice Insurance and settlements along with the carrying burden with Insurance, and extra people you have to hire just to deal with the Insurance Companies is what is really making Medical Care Costs in the USA so outrageous.

I didn't believe him, but did extrapolate a few costs from a local hospital in Los Angeles during the last great Depression in the 1930's, before there was wide spread use of Medical Insurance. They advertised a stay in the Hospital and Doctor assisted Birth for $30.00. 

I know it's not perfect but generally speaking every 20 years due to inflation in the USA your costs double. Doing the math that would bring the cost today to roughly $480.00. What's the real cost in the USA today several thousand? I don't know and can only guess. Anyone know?

Going to all cash for Medical Delivery sure would cause disruptions. Although fancy MRI machines would break a lot of Doctor's, but other's would pick them up at Bankruptcy Auctions and keep on going, but charging a whole lot less for the same procedures.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

> Some Doctor's don't get paid for 5 months from Medicare for some procedures - and then because a *coma* is out of place or not quite stated exactly as the Insurance Co or Medicare expects to see it - they don't get paid. The cost for all of this for Doctor's in the USA is crazy.


I'm pretty sure you really meant 'comma' instead of coma, but it made me chuckle, so thanks.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi circle110;

I had a friend in USA that related how he was going to go to another Orthopaedist for a second opinion on a knee problem and with the Doctor's visits and X-Rays it was going to cost him $1500.00 out of pocket. He had a high deductible Medical Insurance Policy being about 60 at the time.

I told him. Why not come down to Mexico, visit our USA Board Certified Orthopaedist, get his X-Rays all visits and 5 days on the beach in Mazatlan, Airfaire, hotel, meals everything included for less. Of course he stayed at our house in Tepic for over a week too. The Doctor regularly goes to Houston Medical Center to practice every year. The actual Medical out of pocket costs to him were; $500 m.n. for the two visits, Physical Therapy with the Orthopaedist and $180.00 m.n. for the X-Rays. All for a total of $57.00 USD equivalent. It was very nice he didn't charge for the follow up Doctor's visit.

He, did and was so happy he took my advice. And a plus for him, our Mexican Doctor told him he did not need the Operation he was considering, but worked on him twice giving him Physical Therapy and writing down the exercises he needed to do, how often at home to avoid the Surgery. I don't think you'd get that from an Orthopaedist in the USA?

Even cheaper if you have a Dentist in the family. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you this. What I paid as a family member would probably be double or triple for a non family member?

I had an absys in on one of my molars. Turned out to be two of them. Our Dentist had to pluck off the prior cap that was installed after a large cavity job. She found the nerves to still be alive and had to do a triple root canal. She had to come back many times with her super small hand drills to scrape into the canals to get all the bacteria out. 8 trips to the Dentist in all. The two abseses kept draining up into the tooth. 

8 trips to the Dentist; $1500 pesos, and probably over $200.00 m.n. for parking all those times.
Equivalent in USD = $142.00.

How much might that cost me in the USA? $2-3000.00?


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi Edgee;

Yea, I guess a Freudian Slip? What I kind of like it that way, even if unintended.
The US Medical Care Industry surely is in a Coma!


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

cuylers5746 said:


> The US Medical Care Industry surely is in a Coma!


Although I agree, I'm still not sure if its the correct assumption. 

What we do know is that there is a shortage of doctors in the US and admissions to medical schools are falling. Soon we will import doctors from China. Why not, we import most of what is sold at Walmart from China. But, why should young American students want to become a doctor working at general practice or a staff doctor in a hospital when they can work for the pharmaceutical industry and make tons of money without the danger of a lawsuit? Even better, the smart ones will get a MBA and get a well paying job in banking, insurance, or Wall Street. Why would they settle for making a few 100,000 a year when they could be making millions.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> Although I agree, I'm still not sure if its the correct assumption.
> 
> What we do know is that there is a shortage of doctors in the US and admissions to medical schools are falling. Soon we will import doctors from China. Why not, we import most of what is sold at Walmart from China. But, why should young American students want to become a doctor working at general practice or a staff doctor in a hospital when they can work for the pharmaceutical industry and make tons of money without the danger of a lawsuit? Even better, the smart ones will get a MBA and get a well paying job in banking, insurance, or Wall Street. Why would they settle for making a few 100,000 a year when they could be making millions.


So true.
It irritates me to no end that the USA can't understand what is obvious to others.
We are about the last 'civilized' nation to realize that health care should not be a for-profit industry.
The truth is that elderly and ill is a bad place to be, but it doesn't mean those people are worthless.
In fact, our current practices take those people and turn them into something quite different.
Instead of being a source for wisdom - the benefit of growing old - they are seen as a way to inflate billing.
Our medical care system does not want to extend their life to learn from them,
it uses their infirmaries to extort huge payments to keep them alive, just to claim they are capable of it.

Extending life beyond it's normal limits is one thing.
Doing so just to brag about it is something else entirely.
If we have any desire to better our own situation we have to conclude that the way we do it now is counterproductive.
Don't spend millions to prolong life so that billings go up,
do it because experience is worthy of respect.

All those old people have something to offer, and we should welcome it.
Instead we ignore it while we charge them for our system being foolish.
How crazy is that?

Meanwhile, our own corporate structure shoots one foot then the other by ignoring how healthy workers are more productive than ones who suffer from illness.
Job creators unite! Insist and demand that your employees have the right to health care.

If you're worried about China taking our place as the global power to consider,
think about how they got there.
It's not about communism, it's about relationships, and how we use them.
It's about respect, and how the youth use it to learn from their elders.
In asian countries, elders are afforded the respect they are due.

Granted, USA children can't learn it it unless their parents teach it, but those without it have no perspective.
It is the duty of our society to provide it to those who could not find it at home.
Do we really want to to say to them, "Go away, we don't need you."?

So complain all you want about medical coverage, but try to remember that it is what we created. 
And now we don't like what we created.
How American is that?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Joaquin, not even a "few" hundred thousand; the average income of a general practice doc (internal medicine, family practice, ob/gyn and pads) is in the vicinity of about $100K.

Given that the average med student graduates with between $150 and $200K in debt, that's not a lot. Even less, when you realize that they'll be working an average of 60 to 80 hours a week, including holidays and weekends, for that money.

I know doctors who have become wellness coaches with my company, because they were tired of being yelled at by the office manager for not seeing enough patients in a day, when they already didn't have enough time to spend with their patients. They ended up working fewer hours for more money, without, as you point out, the headaches, the liability and the worries.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Don't forget the yearly Medical Malpractice Insurance too*

Oh, and let's not forget many a malpractice policy run's in the vicinity of $250K a year for them. 
The whole USA Medical Delivery system is a sham for everyone but the Drug Companies. 
Sometimes I think of US Doctor's as nothing but Drug Pushers, and some of the drugs a whole
lot more dangerous, that what you local street corner Illegal Drug Pusher would sell you.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

cuylers5746 said:


> Oh, and let's not forget many a malpractice policy run's in the vicinity of $250K a year for them.
> The whole USA Medical Delivery system is a sham for everyone but the Drug Companies.
> Sometimes I think of US Doctor's as nothing but Drug Pushers, and some of the drugs a whole
> lot more dangerous, that what you local street corner Illegal Drug Pusher would sell you.


Oh, the medical device industry does pretty darned well, too. I worked for one of them for a couple years. Selling four of the devices (I was the RN trying to get the insurance company to pay for it) paid more than my salary in a year.

And the big ones like Medtronic and St. Jude's get thousands for the teeny little stents put in blood vessels, even more for implantable devices like insulin pumps and cardiac regulation devices.

BTW: I wrote PEDS, not PADS. Then didn't check the spellcheck. Grrrrrr.


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## elchante (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm currently going through some major medical "issues." My only insurance is IMSS (Mexican government insurance for which I pay about $300US a year). As with any bureaucratic group that deals with poorer people (of whatever nationality), navigating the system can often be an exercise in patience, if not futility. The most popular refrain is "we have procedures and they must be obeyed." That's true here, as it likely is in most countries. 

The IMSS hospital with which I am dealing in Guadalajara (#180 in Tlajomulco) seems to be somewhat overwhelmed so that waits can be long for such things as tests of all kinds. Therefore, I've taken it upon myself to get most of my pre-surgery testing done on my own dime and I've been shocked and pleasantly surprised at what I can get locally for not that much money. 

For example, I needed blood tests done. I had a complete workup done here around Lake Chapala (in Jocotepec) for 500 pesos ($39US). They took my blood at 10am one morning and I had the results back at 3pm. I also needed an ultrasound of my liver. I saw the doctora at about 6pm one evening and she had my film and a report in my hand by 7pm that night. Cost? 300 pesos ($23.50US). 

The next day I got an EKG done at a local clinic. (I would have gone to Cruz Roja (Red Cross) in Chapala, but was advised that their EKG machine was not working.) Cost? 350 pesos ($27.50US). 

Now, I could have gotten all this done for free at the IMSS hospital in Tlajomulco, but it would have probably taken me a couple of weeks and three trips up there (minimum of 2 hours driving time, round-trip, plus waiting time). So it was totally worth $90US to get everything done in two days. 

Hope that gives you some idea of what you can get for your money!


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Enhancing your IMSS experience*

Hi Elchante;

Yes, you do sometimes have to wait a bit for some tests and Specialists with IMSS. If it seem inordinate amount of time you might have to wait for comparing at say a USA HMO, then ask around for an - "Advocate". This is someone that hangs around the hospital and knows the system in and out and can bull doze you through some procedures and services for a small fee. Especially if you're a ****** not speaking too much Spanish, this is an effective and cheap way to go. You have to find these people through word of mouth. Maybe just hanging around curbside of the big clinic or Hospital and asking the nurses on their break for lunch who and where you can contact these "advocates".

I have my own with my wife, so don't need one.

I hope this gives you some additional ideas?


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## elchante (Dec 22, 2008)

Cuylers: thanks for the advice. is that pronounced "odd vo cot A"??? i really DO need one of them. i took a fluent Spanish speaker with me on thursday, and we still got the old run around! so apparently the Spanish language isn't the problem. sure would be nice to find somebody to "run interference" for me!


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

elchante said:


> is that pronounced "odd vo cot A"???


abogado [ah-voh-GAH-doh], advocate, attorney
mediador [meh-dee-ah-DOR], intermediary, ombudsman
perito en los trámites [peh-REE-toh en lohs TRAH-mee-tehs], expert for the paperwork

It might help to offer more than one term because "abogado" is normally taken to mean "legal counsel".


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