# Question regarding Work reference from colleague



## saurabhnagar (Apr 13, 2015)

Hi Guys,

Please help me with the following question:

One of my previous employer is not ready to give me work reference letter/statuary declaration, is fine to get this done by a colleague who is not working in this company at the moment (but was full time employee when I was working with this employer)?

Kindly let me know

Thanks in anticipation!

Cheers!


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes, you can get his reference provided:
- He is not a junior colleague.
- Was working there at least until you quit.
- Was working with you and was aware of (and hence can vouch for) your roles and responsibilities.

I have done the same. Ensure that you ask him to clearly state the fact about his position, his dates, his work relation with you, and also state that he is authoring the document as a work colleague.

Mine reads somewhat on these lines:

_I do solemnly declare that ... blah blah ... and was employed on a full time basis from --- to ---. Mr. xyz's designation at the time of resignation was <My_Position> and was working full time with me as his *work colleague*. I myself was employed at ... between --- to --- as <Colleagues_Position>._

However, note that should I be questioned by DIBP later about why I did not provide a declaration from a senior instead, I have satisfactory answers to the same- like me being almost the senior most person there with only the founders and finance people more senior to me, and they couldn't really declare about my technical skills, etc. There were some in between, but they never served any sufficiently longer periods of employment there.


----------



## Naveedh (Jun 30, 2015)

*reference letter*

Hi , every one..

can any one of you kind ppl plz help me with this confusion:

I read some where that the reference letter should be signed either by your senior/supervisor or your HR manager.

well my issue is that my Hr manager is willing to give me a letter with dates only (without details) while my supervisor is willing to give me a reference letter on the letterhead with all the details . so if i get a detailed reference letter/ experience certificate from my supervisor on the companies letter head instead of HR manager, then would th8 be enough. will it fulfill condition of reference letter.

Statuary declaration is still required.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Naveedh said:


> Hi , every one..
> 
> can any one of you kind ppl plz help me with this confusion:
> 
> ...


The one from your supervisor with all the details and dates on company letter head is sufficient. SD not required in this case.


----------



## Naveedh (Jun 30, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> The one from your supervisor with all the details and dates on company letter head is sufficient. SD not required in this case.


Thnx keeDa ..
there is one more thing i need to clarify, my supervisor is one grade senior to me .. i mean he is deputy director and i am assistant director...is he okay to for the reference letter or is there any specific level of supervisor who can give the letter?


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Naveedh said:


> Thnx keeDa ..
> there is one more thing i need to clarify, my supervisor is one grade senior to me .. i mean he is deputy director and i am assistant director...is he okay to for the reference letter or is there any specific level of supervisor who can give the letter?


The only requirements are:
- The author should not be a junior colleague.
- Should have served in the organization during the same period as you are getting assessed, but not less (and thus can vouch for your skills and responsibilities for the entire period)- i.e. shouldn't be the case that he started work there after you or quit before you.


----------



## Mohan Babu (Feb 27, 2011)

saurabhnagar said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Please help me with the following question:
> 
> ...


I remember one of our expat, got such letter from ex colleque and got the grant. As Keeda pointed out, you need to mention that person's current and previous company details. It would be more authentic if you were actually reporting to him or worked for the same team.


----------



## ashwini_2015 (Jun 16, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> The only requirements are:
> - The author should not be a junior colleague.
> - Should have served in the organization during the same period as you are getting assessed, but not less (and thus can vouch for your skills and responsibilities for the entire period)- i.e. shouldn't be the case that he started work there after you or quit before you.



I am unable too get a declaration from a senior who has joined before me. One of my friends with same designation as mine has joined on the exact date as i have. Please suggest if that eill help. My lead has joined three organization two years after me. Will that declaration be ok?


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

ashwini_2015 said:


> I am unable too get a declaration from a senior who has joined before me. One of my friends with same designation as mine has joined on the exact date as i have. Please suggest if that eill help. My lead has joined three organization two years after me. Will that declaration be ok?


If your friend is at the same designation/ level as you are, works with you, is aware of your skills and responsibilities, can vouch for them on a non-judicial notarized declaration, then yes, you can provide that. Read post#2 of this thread for the sample/ template.


----------



## Reca (May 26, 2014)

*Work experience letter from ex-manager for the current company*

Hi All,

One of my friend want to apply 189 visa under Business analyst code. He is working for the same company more than last 10 years. As per the company policy he can't get reference letter from the employer. And He is not able to get statutory declaration from his colleague as he is the senior most person in his team and working as (vice president). His manager was recently resigned from his company and he is willing to give statutory declaration.

Is there any problem if he get stat dec from his manager who is recently resigned from the current company.

He is having all the documents like payslip, joining letter, work experience letter from his company, etc.

Regards
Reca


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Reca said:


> Hi All,
> 
> One of my friend want to apply 189 visa under Business analyst code. He is working for the same company more than last 10 years. As per the company policy he can't get reference letter from the employer. And He is not able to get statutory declaration from his colleague as he is the senior most person in his team and working as (vice president). His manager was recently resigned from his company and he is willing to give statutory declaration.
> 
> ...


Your friend has no other way but to get the SD from the ex-manager. Make sure that the ex-manager writes down all the facts including his end-date and make sure that your friend gets assessment for (and later claims skilled work experience for) only the period up to this end-date. State other facts as well- about your friend being the senior most now and thus inability to produce any other SD from anyone else, and the company policy not allowing for such a reference.


----------



## Mangai (Jul 17, 2015)

Hi,

I had worked for 3 companies and wish to know if 1 statutory declaration per company (so total 3 statutory declaration ) would be fine for ACS Process submission.

Please confirm.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes, at least one per company. If in one company, you served under 2 managers, then that would be 2 statutory declarations from those 2 managers.


----------



## Mangai (Jul 17, 2015)

Thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## pratikk (Aug 7, 2015)

where do we have to state the reason for providing statutory and not reference letter , other details etc , .....in the statutory itself ?


----------



## TeamRanger (Jul 8, 2014)

pratikk said:


> where do we have to state the reason for providing statutory and not reference letter , other details etc , .....in the statutory itself ?


SD need not carry the reason. When you are providing a SD it's implicitly assumed that you are unable to get a reference letter from organisation.


----------



## VishalN (May 27, 2015)

Yes, he can get the stat dec on stamp paper from anyone who was his supervisor/manager/senior in his company. That person does NOT need to be working in the same company at the time of getting the stat dec signed. Just make sure that the contact details as correct, so that in case they do a reference check, they can reach him.

Most companies don't give the reference letter. Here is what I did from my prev org after getting stat decl signed by my previous manager. Ask the HR to give a letter on the company letter head stating the relationship between you (employee with empID) and the manager who signed the stat dec (manager with empID), along with start & end date of employment and job title. This will confirm officially that yes the manager who signed your stat decl is indeed your manager and was in the right position to verify your roles & responsibilities in the company. This will make the employment proof very solid.

Hope this helps.




Reca said:


> Hi All,
> 
> One of my friend want to apply 189 visa under Business analyst code. He is working for the same company more than last 10 years. As per the company policy he can't get reference letter from the employer. And He is not able to get statutory declaration from his colleague as he is the senior most person in his team and working as (vice president). His manager was recently resigned from his company and he is willing to give statutory declaration.
> 
> ...


----------



## pratikk (Aug 7, 2015)

Is stamp paper mandatory , or regular A4 ok for statutory


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

pratikk said:


> Is stamp paper mandatory , or regular A4 ok for statutory


notarized stamp paper (any denomination)


----------



## VishalN (May 27, 2015)

pratikk said:


> Is stamp paper mandatory , or regular A4 ok for statutory


Yes, it is mandatory to get the stat decl on a stamp paper and then notarized. 20 Rs paper will do.


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

Sorry to dig up the old thread, but I have a relevant question:

I have the reference letter from the employer (CEO) directly, do I need any further supporting documents (Statutory Declaration from colleague, Bank statement) to go along with it? 

I ask because I don't have pay slips etc. just bank statements for last couple of years, so I'm curios if just this one letter will suffice?


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

3br4h!m,

Just because the reference is from CEO does not mean that the employment cannot be questioned. That reference is just a declaration/ statement about your work and skills. You will still have to provide evidence of having worked full time there- bank statements should suffice but make sure they are enough and spaced evenly so that there is no concern raised about the entire employment duration. We cannot say if bank statements alone will suffice. Most probably they should, but it all depends on the CO.


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> 3br4h!m,
> 
> Just because the reference is from CEO does not mean that the employment cannot be questioned. That reference is just a declaration/ statement about your work and skills. You will still have to provide evidence of having worked full time there- bank statements should suffice but make sure they are enough and spaced evenly so that there is no concern raised about the entire employment duration. We cannot say if bank statements alone will suffice. Most probably they should, but it all depends on the CO.


Ah, I see. Although the "guidelines" say nothing about the supporting documents. 

So for an employment from 2008 to 2014, I'm submitting: 
1) Employment Reference from CEO 
2) Statutory Declaration from Colleague (Notarized in USA, but he joined in 2011 and left 2 months before me!) 
3) Bank Statement of last 2yrs 2013 and 2014. Would that suffice? I switched bank accounts so I don't have older statements.

Also, should I provide all months and all pages of each statement or just the relevant bits?

Edited to add: I'm just applying for assessment right now. Do you mean CO will again question everything all over again when I reach the visa stage?


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

3br4h!m,

ASC does not verify the facts stated in your documents. They assume all to be true and provide their assessment without any verification, and also state in the result letter that it is up to DIBP to get these facts verified.

As for your documentation, I cannot say for sure whether it will be sufficient proof of full time paid employment between 2008 till 2014 especially because of the missing evidence for the period 2008 till 2012. Can you not try to get something else for this period? Tax reports or a salary certificate from the employer, or maybe approach that bank and request them for the statements.


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

Do they require proof for the *entire* duration of the employment?

My case is complicated, I can't provide tax reports. Salary certificate again is the a letter from the HR/CEO? Bank statements are difficult to get cause it was Bank of America and account is closed.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

3br4h!m,

At least that is what we are observing on the forum- about applicants who did not provide them, were asked to do so. Not the entire employment period, but the period counting towards points.

google salary certificate and you should be able to find a few samples. Yes, it is a letter/ statement on the company's letterhead.


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

Do you happen to have links to those threads? I searched but couldn't find where CO requested additional evidence.

BTW, I'm not claiming any points for work experience. I have 10+ years of experience but ony 5 required along with Diploma to get positive assessment and my 10 points from ACS come from Diploma only. Rest is for age (30) and english (20).

Salary certificate shouldn't be a problem, cause the CEO is really supportive. I'll search on the forum where salary certificate was accepted as proof.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Hi,

I don't have the links. You will have to wade through a lot of pages of 189 Visa Lodge 2015 Gang thread for this. But, don't bother because if not claiming points for work experience, then there is no need to have anything else other than what you already have. Some would say that even those (that you have) are not required in this case. But of course, for your ACS assessment, you would need:
- Job reference letter detailing your skills (so as to assess them as whether closely related to your occupation). If this is a statutory declaration, then 2 payslips- preferably first and last.
- Your relevant education marksheets and degree certificate.

Do also study Skills-Assessment-Guidelines-for-Applicants.pdf before applying for ACS, and preferably ACS related post from this thread: My Journey For Australia PR


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

Ah, I just let out the biggest sigh of relief!!

I was really tensed because getting bank statments would've been almost impossible. So if one is not claiming points for work experience they don't ask for proofs? I mean, those 5 yrs required to meet skill level is still 'work experience' right?


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes, I agree with your understanding that in case if that is the only employment you ever had then there should still be documentation requirements and chances of employment verification for that work episode because you received a positive assessment based on it. It would help if someone from this exact scenario replies here, or maybe try posting this specific question as a new thread to hear from applicants with this scenario and about which documents were requested from them (if at all they were requested). Applicants whom I know, who were granted visas by not providing any documents for unrelated employments did have one or more other employment episodes that counted towards their points.


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

No its not the only employment:

Company A : 2003 to 2007 (I don't have any proof at all, except emp reference)
Company B : 2008 to 2014 (Emp reference, SD from colleague, partial bank statements)
Self-Employed: 2014 to Present (bank statements)

However, I only have vendor certification and that too obtained last month so "skill level met" is current. Therefore no previous employment will be considered "skilled employment". So I can't claim work exp points without RPL.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

okay. Not the only employment, but a case of having no employments counting towards points claims.

See if these threads answer your question, or search further, or feel free to post a new thread about it:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...-you-not-claiming-points-work-experience.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...nce-letter-if-im-not-claiming-any-points.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...6938-not-claiming-work-experience-points.html


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

Thanks, thats some useful info there.

One more question: Can I skip employment episodes if I'm not claiming points for those anyway? Company A and self-employment don't get me anything, only company B years are counted towards meeting skill-level so including only company B in ACS application would be okay? Or will they question what I did before and after that employment?



KeeDa said:


> okay. Not the only employment, but a case of having no employments counting towards points claims.
> 
> See if these threads answer your question, or search further, or feel free to post a new thread about it:
> 
> ...


----------



## saggi_au (Jun 28, 2015)

3br4h!m said:


> Thanks, thats some useful info there.
> 
> One more question: Can I skip employment episodes if I'm not claiming points for those anyway? Company A and self-employment don't get me anything, only company B years are counted towards meeting skill-level so including only company B in ACS application would be okay? Or will they question what I did before and after that employment?


When you fill form 80 (which I have seen most of the time asked by CO) after lodging visa application, you will have to give complete history of employment and "un-employement" since birth. So, it's safe to provide your full employment history and they will anyway count only those experiences for claiming points which are relevant to your nominated occupation and supported by reference letters. This is what I had done during my ACS assessment and they counted only those for which I had the reference letters from company or colleagues. You can leave self employment for ACS and add them later in your visa application while filling up form 80.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Right. Don't skip it but mark it as not-relevant.


----------



## vikaschandra (Aug 5, 2015)

Hi KeeDa,

Seek your advise. Under my employment history relevant to job I di not have any pay slips for my first Job. Only an experience letter from HR which mentions my salary drawn until i redigned from the company. Would that be sufficient evidence?
For my second job i have the bank statement for last one year whereas the total employment is 2 years 8 months. Also i have letter from HR stating my last drawn salary. The reason the initial period statement is missing cause I changed my bank. 
For the current job I csn provide complete sets of documents

Would this create issues upon having a CO assigned. What are the measures i can take to organise things for future. 
My current status is waiting for invite. 
Thanks for your continuous support.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Hi Vikas,

The earlier jobs where you don't seem to have sufficient evidence of paid employment- are they counting towards points?


----------



## vikaschandra (Aug 5, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Hi Vikas,
> 
> The earlier jobs where you don't seem to have sufficient evidence of paid employment- are they counting towards points?


Hi KeeDa yes all the jobs are included for the points only thing i could not get hold of is the payslips or bank statements for 1st job and 1 years statement for 2nd job. How can I go about this. Will getting a letter from HR help?


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Vikas,
Yes, of course. That is what I was going to suggest. Someone here could satisfy this requirement by what we call as a 'salary certificate' from the HR. State your name, dates, last held position, bank details (where the salary was paid into) and month-wise salary paid to you in a tabular form. That should work.

There is another member here who has done the same (but not received the grant yet). He additionally has procured a letter from the bank stating that he did own a xyz account at the bank but they cannot issue him the requested transaction statements due to the account being closed. Maybe you too try and keep this letter handy.


----------



## vikaschandra (Aug 5, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Vikas,
> Yes, of course. That is what I was going to suggest. Someone here could satisfy this requirement by what we call as a 'salary certificate' from the HR. State your name, dates, last held position, bank details (where the salary was paid into) and month-wise salary paid to you in a tabular form. That should work.
> 
> There is another member here who has done the same (but not received the grant yet). He additionally has procured a letter from the bank stating that he did own a xyz account at the bank but they cannot issue him the requested transaction statements due to the account being closed. Maybe you too try and keep this letter handy.


Thanks a lot KeeDa

I shall start working on it right away. Appreciate your help.


----------



## rj45 (Sep 2, 2015)

I've all evidence of employment, but I can only find superior who has joined employer after me for stat declaration. 
He is willing to write declaration for my employment period, including he actually joined.

Example 
My employment - 2008 -2015
Colleague Employment 2010 -2015

I know it may not be appropriate, as I dont have any choice (considering I have all proofs to validate my employment period).
Do you see it as a problem when I comes with DIBP verification, will DIBP ask colleague for his joining dates, and Joining letters or other documents ??


----------



## 3br4h!m (Apr 4, 2015)

The employment checks are apparently only carried out when you claim work experience points. 

Even then I don't think they'll verify colleague's joining date. His stat dec is enough. If they need more proof, you'll have to find alternate ways (payslips, bank statement, salary certificate etc..)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rj45 (Sep 2, 2015)

3br4h!m said:


> The employment checks are apparently only carried out when you claim work experience points.
> 
> Even then I don't think they'll verify colleague's joining date. His stat dec is enough. If they need more proof, you'll have to find alternate ways (payslips, bank statement, salary certificate etc..)
> 
> ...



Thanks for quick help.
Yes, I'm going to claim those employment points. 
I've all the documents to proof employment (all - payslips, bank stat, joining, offer, promotion letter, service certificate etc)

Any one know or had experience where DIBP ever asked for Colleague joining letter details etc.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

rj45 said:


> I've all evidence of employment, but I can only find superior who has joined employer after me for stat declaration.
> He is willing to write declaration for my employment period, including he actually joined.
> 
> Example
> ...


Someone's HR was questioned about the applicant as well as the colleague's details during job verification. I would suggest you get two separate references for those two periods from the right colleagues/ supervisors.


----------



## shavu (May 24, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Yes, you can get his reference provided:
> - He is not a junior colleague.
> - Was working there at least until you quit.
> - Was working with you and was aware of (and hence can vouch for) your roles and responsibilities.
> ...



Can someone please share the format for "Certified copy of your work references on company letterhead" if requesting from HR.


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

shavu said:


> Can someone please share the format for "Certified copy of your work references on company letterhead" if requesting from HR.


Check the experience_certificate.pdf from this thread: My Journey For Australia PR


----------



## ozbound2k (Jul 31, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Yes, at least one per company. If in one company, you served under 2 managers, then that would be 2 statutory declarations from those 2 managers.


Hi Keeda
Sorry to bump an old thread, but this really a useful thread.

I worked under 2 team leads during my tenure at one of the company(in same project) I served. One of them left organization before me(under whom I started working when I joined organization) and other after me(under whom I left organization)

Would I need two SD's, I can get from one easily(who left after me) but from other it may be difficult.

Thanks


----------



## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

ozbound2k said:


> Hi Keeda
> Sorry to bump an old thread, but this really a useful thread.
> 
> I worked under 2 team leads during my tenure at one of the company(in same project) I served. One of them left organization before me(under whom I started working when I joined organization) and other after me(under whom I left organization)
> ...


Ideally you should get references from the right person who knew you during that time, worked with you, and can vouch for your skills because later, during visa processing, DIBP may get these facts verified via an email or phone call to the HR. See: *http://www.expatforum.com/expats/8893130-post11994.html*


----------



## ozbound2k (Jul 31, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Ideally you should get references from the right person who knew you during that time, worked with you, and can vouch for your skills because later, during visa processing, DIBP may get these facts verified via an email or phone call to the HR. See: *http://www.expatforum.com/expats/8893130-post11994.html*


Thanks that helps..although both team leads can vouch for me if needed....I guess giving one SD from the lead under whom I was working when I left organization should work.


----------



## Langerkunal83 (Dec 20, 2018)

Hi. I have a question regarding SD. In my previous company I worked in three different team each having different manager. Do I need to have SDs for each project or one consolidated SD for that company will suffice. Also do I have to prepare SD on a notarized stamp paper (any specific denomination)


----------



## Langerkunal83 (Dec 20, 2018)

*How much time it takes to get PR grant*

Hi, I applied for PR after submitting all supporting documents, health records and making fee payment for me, wife n 1 kid in March 2019. Till now I see the status in immiaccount portal as RECEIVED. Will a case office get assigned or PR grant without CO? How much time it takes to get GRANT


----------

