# Need some advice (please) re problems with the landlord



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Hiya,

We had a 12 month contract which expired at the end of December.

In November we asked the owner for a reduction in rent and for a 1-month
notice get out clause to be included in the new contract.

The owner agreed, but has since increased the rent due to inflation and has
not provided us with a new contract and its obviously now February.

My better half has contacted the owner by email twice in the last week without
reply and we are left wondering what to do about the situation.

To make matters a little more pressing, we are considering moving and would therefore be looking to give 1-month notice in the coming weeks.

The owner has our original deposit of 600 Euros and I was wondering where we would stand if we tried to use the deposit as our last month's rental

Any advice would be much appreciated, as we don't want problems, but unfortunately the owner seems to be less than helpful.

Cheers, Dave


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> Hiya,
> 
> We had a 12 month contract which expired at the end of December.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave, I know they dont like you using the deposit as the last month, in some cases the agent has the deposit anyway (I know they're not supposed to???!?) I'm surprised your landlord is trying to up your rent, mine has kindly reduced ours cos we told him we couldnt afford it and rental prices have dropped cos there is a shortage of tenants in our area! So ours didnt want his property sitting empty and cut his losses. Mind you, our agreement runs out end May, so I dont know what'll happen then. If he puts it up then we'll move on - as I say there are lots of empty rentals around here.

If you have somewhere else to go then I personally would try to NOT pay the last month and see what happens - if it gets nasty you could always blame the bank and just pay it?????? It depends on how well you get on with him and if you feel he's been a fair and good landlord???? Although, I dont think I'd do that to mine cos he's been lovely!!

jo 

Jo


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm surprised your landlord is trying to up your rent, mine has kindly reduced ours cos we told him we couldnt afford it and rental prices have dropped cos there is a shortage of tenants in our area!
> 
> If you have somewhere else to go then I personally would try to NOT pay the last month and see what happens - if it gets nasty you could always blame the bank and just pay it?????? It depends on how well you get on with him and if you feel he's been a fair and good landlord????
> Jo



Hi Jo and thanks for the reply,

The landlord reduced the rental and then upped it a bit, claiming it was inflation, despite the fact we had told HER that we did not want to pay more than 600

The landlady (is correct) now resides in Germany and is getting legal advice from her sister who resided locally and her father is hardly Mr Friendly.

We nearly moved last year and had problems then, with the father coming round and behaving very aggresively and claiming that 1 month notice was not enough and started talking about the English believing in equality et cetera

Essentially, we don't want problems, but with the owner being in Germany and her changing what we agreed and her father being very troublesome its not exactly a nice position to be in.

I honestly don't know whats best, as I feel sure that if we give our notice to leave then the father will be round quick sharp to create problems.

Like I said before, anyone that has some advice to give, please feel free.

Dave


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## decgraham (Apr 24, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Hi Jo and thanks for the reply,
> 
> The landlord reduced the rental and then upped it a bit, claiming it was inflation, despite the fact we had told HER that we did not want to pay more than 600
> 
> ...


What was the notice period required in the previous contract? if there wasn't one then I would just move on when you've used up the deposit. A contract is, as I'm sure you know a document drawn up by TWO parties not one. You signed it because you where happy with its content as was the landlord (lady in this case) was there an automatic renewal clause? You say it expired at the end of December therefore at this moment in time there is no contractual obligation from either party (No contract in place) but you are still paying the rent “in good faith”

The angry farther, sounds like he's acting like the preverbal bullyboy no legal standing that’s for sure don’t let him intimidate you.

Lets face it times are hard everybody is trying to do the best they can. She increased the rent due to inflation?? Last time I checked everywhere is suffering a recession, especially Spain and looking at possible deflation, she just wants more money.

I’m no lawyer but have negotiated and drawn up many contracts in my life, I have always believed it is better to argue the toss at the beginning rather than the end but it is too late for that for you.

Spain is not the wild wild west, you have a position as well as the landlady, if you can’t negotiate it out between the two of you then perhaps you’ll need to employ a Solicitor (costs money but then legal representation always has, see how the angry father acts then) lets face it they can’t force you to stay can they?


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

decgraham said:


> At this moment in time there is no contractual obligation from either party (No contract in place) but you are still paying the rent “in good faith”
> 
> The angry farther, sounds like he's acting like the preverbal bullyboy no legal standing that’s for sure don’t let him intimidate you.
> 
> ...



Hi there and thanks for the reply,

What you have said pretty much sums up the situation. 

I agree that all they want is more money and they care not about us. 

When we nearly moved before the father came round and practically begged us to pay more for two months rather than one. When I declined to pay what he wanted he practically exploded shouting and screaming and behaving in a very threatening manner. And the guy is absolutely HUGE.

What this experience has taught me is to always go through an agent, as I certainly don't want a repeat performance.

To be fair I would not be posting this if it were not for the fact that the father is impossible to deal with and I do not want to pay for a solicitor.

Dave


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## decgraham (Apr 24, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Hi there and thanks for the reply,
> 
> 
> When we nearly moved before the father came round and practically begged us to pay more for two months rather than one. When I declined to pay what he wanted he practically exploded shouting and screaming and behaving in a very threatening manner. And the guy is absolutely HUGE.
> ...


Point taken, however if he was physically abusive you would call the police (not easy perhaps with a broken nose) but you need to work it out one way or the other. Try and rationalise with him or the landlady, you’ve been a good tenant yes? and now it is time for you to move on. I personally don’t think a one moth notice period is unreasonable, do they expect you to stay put until they find another tenant? 

Note: The bigger they are the harder they fall, especially with a ……………


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

decgraham said:


> Point taken, however if he was physically abusive you would call the police (not easy perhaps with a broken nose) but you need to work it out one way or the other. Try and rationalise with him or the landlady, you’ve been a good tenant yes? and now it is time for you to move on. I personally don’t think a one moth notice period is unreasonable, do they expect you to stay put until they find another tenant?
> 
> Note: The bigger they are the harder they fall, especially with a ……………



They know that it will be very difficult to find another tennant, as next to noone has the money here to pay 600 Euros a month in rental.

Thats why they are doing it. But thats not our problem.

Fact is, they are "mala gente" and its not a nice situation with the father.

He has not thrown any punches (yet), but I get your point.

I just don't know where I stand legally and suspect they will not refund my deposit despite us being fantastic tennants and the apartment being in perfect condition, but thats life. Sometimes we all get challenges, sometimes we get more than we bargained for, but hey.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I'd simply use up the deposit, cancel the bank transfer and be ready to move out, say, 10 days before the end of the period. If he/she object there's not a lot they can do if you are safely esconced in the next street/village/country. 

If he/she plays up say that you will pay THROUGH a solicitor and that you want a copy of their NIE and their tax declaration. That will usually shut them up. 

How anybody can try to get an increase in rent at this moment in time is completely beyond me


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## Sizlu (Oct 29, 2008)

*Landlords .. Bless them*

You will be fine using your deposit as your last months rent. There is absolutely nothing your landlord can do about it.

Unless you moved out for a 24 hour period after your 11 month contract ended, then moved back in with a new contract, he can't evict you or ask you to leave. So, if you don't feel confident that you will get your deposit back, simply don't pay your final months rent.

To be honest, in this climate, the cash may not even be available to be returned, depending on your landlords financial situation of course .. 

Good luck with it ... 
Sizlu


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## Sarren (Mar 3, 2009)

Just something I noticed: I know that Spanish law can differ a little from British contract law, but in our country you need agreement from both sides to change a contract. If not, then the original contract is breached and becomes void.
You are within your rights to move out straight away and pay the remaining rent in whatever way you see fit under these conditions. I'm not sure if this would apply under Spanish law, but it may be another avenue to investigate.

And if 'Mr Big' does break your nose, it will end up far worse for them and make them look all kinds of bad in the eyes of the authorities.

Good luck!


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

An update on the situation. It was November when we agreed the new terms of the contract (verbally), but we have not received the contract and its now March

The only thing we do have is an email confirming the rental price, but it says nothing about 1 month notice, which was verbally agreed back in November


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

What is the situation if your landlord doesn't do or is slow in doing repairs?
Also -we paid the Agent 1800 euros deposit -two months rent -when we signed our contract.
Was this legal? Can an agent demand this?
Our landlord's Agent recommended a friend when we inquired about satellite installation. She didn't tell us that there was already Community provision for Sky and we didn't know there was until we actually moved in. The friend allegedly installed dish, cabling etc and charged us 500 euros. We suspect he did nothing.
What responsibility, if any, does the Agent bear for this rip-off?
We are not satisfied with the whole situation regarding this rental and would like to move on. We have eight months of the contract to run.
What are our options?


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## Sarren (Mar 3, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> What is the situation if your landlord doesn't do or is slow in doing repairs?
> Also -we paid the Agent 1800 euros deposit -two months rent -when we signed our contract.
> Was this legal? Can an agent demand this?
> Our landlord's Agent recommended a friend when we inquired about satellite installation. She didn't tell us that there was already Community provision for Sky and we didn't know there was until we actually moved in. The friend allegedly installed dish, cabling etc and charged us 500 euros. We suspect he did nothing.
> ...


Ok, I know little of Spanish law, but from EU law, if the lanlord or their 'friend' says that they have installed satellite and haven't, they can't charge you.
In terms of deposit; If you pay them 1800 deposit when you sign, then you agree to it, whether or not you think it is reasonable. If you didn't want to pay it, or thought it was dodgy, then you shouldn't have signed. Agents can demand what they like for deposits, it's up to you to agree or disagree with it before you sign the contract.
In terms of getting out of the contract; if you have evidence, either documentary or physical, that the landlord is not fulfilling his contractual duty, then the contract is breached and becomes void. As soon as this happens, you are free to leave and have your deposit back (subject to the landlords inspection of the property once you have vacated). You need to very carefully read your contract, find out exactly what the landlord is responsible for and then put any complaint in writing to him. If no reply is heard within 28 days, or he refuses to fill his contractual obligation, then you can legally challenge him. 
Courts will NOT generally listen to cases where you have not tried to resolve the issue yourself with the landlord. Keep copies of ALL correspondence, if you can afford to get a lawyer involved then do it, and make sure that you don't do anything that could give him leverage (like getting into loud verbal arguments).

To be honest, from the amount of horror stories I've heard about Spanish property developers and landlords ripping people off or treating them like garbage, I'm srprised that people still want to move out there. Just seems a bit too high risk at the moment.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sarren said:


> Ok, I know little of Spanish law, but from EU law, if the lanlord or their 'friend' says that they have installed satellite and haven't, they can't charge you.
> In terms of deposit; If you pay them 1800 deposit when you sign, then you agree to it, whether or not you think it is reasonable. If you didn't want to pay it, or thought it was dodgy, then you shouldn't have signed. Agents can demand what they like for deposits, it's up to you to agree or disagree with it before you sign the contract.
> In terms of getting out of the contract; if you have evidence, either documentary or physical, that the landlord is not fulfilling his contractual duty, then the contract is breached and becomes void. As soon as this happens, you are free to leave and have your deposit back (subject to the landlords inspection of the property once you have vacated). You need to very carefully read your contract, find out exactly what the landlord is responsible for and then put any complaint in writing to him. If no reply is heard within 28 days, or he refuses to fill his contractual obligation, then you can legally challenge him.
> Courts will NOT generally listen to cases where you have not tried to resolve the issue yourself with the landlord. Keep copies of ALL correspondence, if you can afford to get a lawyer involved then do it, and make sure that you don't do anything that could give him leverage (like getting into loud verbal arguments).
> ...


Thanks for your advice. We owned properties in the UK and Canada which we rented out so are keen to do things properly - we were conscientious landlords.

We don't take kindly to being ripped off, though.

We moved here from Prague and arranged our apartment here before we moved so we didn't realise how things worked here. We're on a steep learning curve.
I had already handed over the 500 euros to the so-called technician and am tempted to go to the police....but suspect it isn't worth the hassle. We live and learn.
It seems clear that the Agent is a dishonest , conniving******and to be honest, I'm tempted to live out the 1800 euros deposit here and find somewhere else. This Agent is a thief.I do not intend to leave the security deposit in her hands as I am sure I won't get most of it back, if any. Let her sue.The apartment will be in a better state when we leave than when we took it on as it was none too clean, although after our complaints about its state, the Agent sent the 'cleaner' again (or claimed she did).
I like to be upfront and straight with people but equally I am prepared to be awkward and face down people who don't treat me fairly.
Money isn't a problem (fingers crossed!) and there are more empty properties than people looking to rent here on the so-called 'Golden Mile'.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I should add that there was no inspection of the property and no inventory. The property is unfurnished but a few fixtures/fittings were kept. No record of the state of the property or its contents has been agreed. We noted this at the time of signing the contract but as it could be to our benefit too we let it go.
As for agreeing to the 1800 euros deposit: we did not know then that it is illegal to ask for more than one month's rent as deposit.
Under UK law, no matter what you sign, in a contract, the law supercedes it. Presumably that goes for Spain -you can't sign your legal rights away.


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