# Northern Baja Questions



## jackinbox (Jun 9, 2015)

I've been mostly lurking here for the past couple of months trying to do research for my wife & I as we are looking into retiring to Northern Baja. We're looking at Rosarito and possibly as far south as Ensenada. I know it's annoying when newbies post the same questions over and over again. so I think after the numerous hours I've spent reading here, I've got most of the basics answered. 

I do have a few questions on a couple of items that I'm curious about.....

1) In regards to driving at night, I see it mentioned that it's best not to drive at night on the toll road. I was just thinking that if we went to a concert or a sporting event up in San Diego, would it not be safe to return home that night? 

2) When researching property rentals, I was curious about heating. Do most places not have any type of heat and you just use space heaters? 

3) My wife and I are very interested in trying to learn Spanish and assimilating into Mexican culture as much as possible. I'm hoping that a combination of taking classes and being (somewhat) immersed that we'll be able to speak fairly well after several years. Does this sound feasible? I realize that there are a lot of English speakers in BC, so total immersion isn't going to be possible. Obviously, it's much harder to learn at an older age, but I'm still convinced that it can be done.

Thanks everyone!


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

If you read most expat blogs/websites anywhere in Mexico it is not recommended to drive at night on toll roads, highways, etc. outside of your immediate living area. The entire state of Baja is a major drug route. I suggest you read more Baja blogs/forums to get a better understanding of living in Mexico in general. 
Taking Spanish classes is only useful if you plan to speak as well otherwise you won't be fluent in the language if you are only in a class. This is what happens to most expats taking classes; they never have a basic understanding of Spanish because they only speak in a classroom.
Very few places have heating much less A/C as it can be expensive living anywhere in Mexico esp. since most houses/apartments are not constructed very well with no insulation which means you can have a very high CFE bill. 
Read more expat forums (you will find them on Google) and you will have a better understanding of what its like to live in Mexico...and if you are really suited for the change.
Many expats do little research about living in Mexico and then after a year or less they return to the U.S. as they simply can't adjust to the change.


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## jackinbox (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for the quick reply!



mes1952 said:


> If you read most expat blogs/websites anywhere in Mexico it is not recommended to drive at night on toll roads, highways, etc. outside of your immediate living area.


OK. So, from that I take that it's not safe to visit San Diego unless we are back in Rosarito before sunset?



> The entire state of Baja is a major drug route. I suggest you read more Baja blogs/forums to get a better understanding of living in Mexico in general.


I've been reading several blogs/forums for the past few months. I think we have a pretty good grasp on what to expect for the most part. We do not expect (nor want) the type of lifestyle we have in the U.S. We want a much simpler lifestyle and are fully prepared to deal with the inconveniences that come with that.



> Taking Spanish classes is only useful if you plan to speak as well otherwise you won't be fluent in the language if you are only in a class. This is what happens to most expats taking classes; they never have a basic understanding of Spanish because they only speak in a classroom.


I agree with that. I took two years of Spanish in college, but was hoping that living in Baja would provide the environment where we could attempt to speak it in our everyday surroundings. 



> Very few places have heating much less A/C as it can be expensive living anywhere in Mexico esp. since most houses/apartments are not constructed very well with no insulation which means you can have a very high CFE bill.


Being without A/C is fine. When I lived in Los Angeles, I did fine without it and it got warmer up there in the summer than it does in Rosarito. I'm a little concerned about the winter time and was curious how people dealt with that. I know there are some days with lows in the upper 30s. 



> Many expats do little research about living in Mexico and then after a year or less they return to the U.S. as they simply can't adjust to the change.


Again, I agree. I'm trying to do every bit of research I can. So far, nothing has scared me off.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

jackinbox said:


> 3) My wife and I are very interested in trying to learn Spanish and assimilating into Mexican culture as much as possible. I'm hoping that a combination of taking classes and being (somewhat) immersed that we'll be able to speak fairly well after several years. Does this sound feasible? I realize that there are a lot of English speakers in BC, so total immersion isn't going to be possible. Obviously, it's much harder to learn at an older age, but I'm still convinced that it can be done.


Your language objectives are reasonable and do-able as long as you attempt to immerse yourself, a few years is plenty of time. Yes, there are a lot of English speakers in BC so you might have to select where you hang out.


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## soylent_green (Aug 25, 2014)

The worst thing about driving in night in Baja are the road hazards that can pop up and the roads are not as marked or lit up as they are north of the border. And animals. The toll road is probably the safest to drive at night. I try to avoid driving too much at night, but I wouldn't hesitate too if needed. 

Heaters. The climate along the coast is mild pretty much 12 months a year. Both of our houses in San Diego and south of the border are pretty similar climate wise. We bundle up and put on a fire in the fireplace in baja because we are off grid, and use just space heaters in the states because we have a small condo and that does the trick in those freezing san diego winters hahaha. Really, along the coast it probably doesn't get below mid 40s (per weather.com Imperial Beach's average lows in Dec. and January are 45-46. That should be comparable to Rosarito and Ensenada)

Language training. I am sure you can find language classes in Rosarito or Ensenada.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Almost impossible for most gringos to immerse themselves anywhere in Mexico. I have no ****** neighbors except for a few months in the winter .... but if I go into town shop owners and clerks want to use their English on me. A lot more English speaking Mexicans close to the border.

I lived in San Diego 5 years and never used a heater. Put on another blanket or a jacket


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

sparks said:


> Almost impossible for most gringos to immerse themselves anywhere in Mexico. I have no ****** neighbors except for a few months in the winter .... but if I go into town shop owners and clerks want to use their English on me. A lot more English speaking Mexicans close to the border.
> 
> I lived in San Diego 5 years and never used a heater. Put on another blanket or a jacket


I have no English speaking neighbors and none of the shops I frequent speak English. But that much use of Spanish only goes so far. To really learn it you have to have friends that you speak Spanish with all the time. All of the friends I have now are Mexican. The only problem is that one of them lived in the US for awhile and he likes to practice his English. With the rest I just speak Spanish. I have reached the point where it is easier to speak Spanish than to try to understand my Mexican friends when they try to speak English. But learning Spanish is slow. Some people learn fast, not me.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sparks said:


> Almost impossible for most gringos to immerse themselves anywhere in Mexico. I have no ****** neighbors except for a few months in the winter .... but if I go into town shop owners and clerks want to use their English on me. A lot more English speaking Mexicans close to the border.


I'm not sure what you mean by "immerse", sparks, but I feel a part of the Mexico City neighborhood I live in. There are a few foreigners who live here, lately quite a few Koreans along with the usual people from north of the border and some Spaniards and Argentinians, and even a guy from Serbia I met recently. But the people I socialize with are Mexican as are the businesses I patronize. None of the people I am in contact with on a daily basis talk to me in English, even though they are quite aware of where I'm from. I should mention that I speak Spanish fluently, which may partly account for my success in immersing myself in my local community.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by "immerse", sparks

I have no idea what the OP meant with immersion ..... it's a catch phrase for someone that wants to move to Mexico and learn Spanish. I say a true immersion is next to impossible for most newely imported gringos for many reasons


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sparks said:


> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean by "immerse", sparks
> 
> I have no idea what the OP meant with immersion ..... it's a catch phrase for someone that wants to move to Mexico and learn Spanish. I say a true immersion is next to impossible for most newely imported gringos for many reasons


It may come from "immersion" language courses, which can be very intensive and purport to completely "immerse" you in the target language, or at least attempt to do so. I believe that that's the kind of language training the Peace Corps gives (or gave) their volunteers. Since Tundra Green was a member of the Peace Corps in Mexico, maybe he can fill us in on the kind of language classes he had. 

Of course, a newly-arrived expat, especially one with little or no knowledge of Spanish, should be patient and hope that eventually he or she will feel comfortable enough in their new home to feel "immersed" in it. I find the word a bit awkward myself.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> It may come from "immersion" language courses, which can be very intensive and purport to completely "immerse" you in the target language, or at least attempt to do so. I believe that that's the kind of language training the Peace Corps gives (or gave) their volunteers. Since Tundra Green was a member of the Peace Corps in Mexico, maybe he can fill us in on the kind of language classes he had.
> 
> Of course, a newly-arrived expat, especially one with little or no knowledge of Spanish, should be patient and hope that eventually he or she will feel comfortable enough in their new home to feel "immersed" in it. I find the word a bit awkward myself.


True "immersion" language classes means you live 24 hours a day with teachers and fellow students and are forbidden to use any other language at any time. I know of two schools that take this approach. The Monterey (California) Defense Language Institute and Middlebury College summer language schools in Vermont. In Middlebury, the students live in dorms segregated by language and for the 8 or so weeks of the course, they are not allowed to speak except in the language they are studying.. They are a very effective way to very quickly learn a language. A good friend of mine studied Vietnamese at the Monterey Defense language school for one year. They took classes all day, ate meals together, lived in dorms together and were absolutely forbidden to speak English at any time. At the end of the year, he was fluent in Vietnamese and was sent to Vietnam as a translator.

On the other hand, for example, the Peace Corps provides language training. When I arrived in Mexico, I took Spanish classes for four hours a day for 12 weeks. I lived with a Mexican family. But it was not really an "immersion" experience. All of the Peace Corps volunteers spoke English to each other. In addition to the Spanish classes we had lots of other classes which were given in English. It was a good introduction to Spanish but not an immersion experience. I think there are lots of schools that claim you can immerse yourself in the language and live with a Mexican family. But unless you have great discipline and cut off all connection with your friends and family it will not be like a true immersion class.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "immerse"...
> .....
> Of course, a newly-arrived expat, especially one with little or no knowledge of Spanish, should be patient and hope that eventually he or she will feel comfortable enough in their new home to feel "immersed" in it. I find the word a bit awkward myself.


I know you know the meaning of "immerse", my dear language teacher friend, so I'm not trying to be patronizing  but according to the Oxford dictionary one of the meanings is "to involve oneself deeply in a particular activity or interest". So really, I think the onus is on the person to actively immerse themselves, as opposed to passively being immersed. 

I was working with Central American refugees in Texas a few decades ago and I immersed myself into that community (in Texas). I became fluent in both Spanish and Central American culture, food, etc. because I became "deeply involved". 

If I was able to immerse in Texas, even in Dallas, immersion is certainly possible for expats in Mexico, but I agree with Sparks' point that it often doesn't happen, and with TG's observation that if many of your primary relationships are with other expats it will be harder to immerse. Immersion requires decision, deliberate action, dedication to learning and being open not only to a new language, but to a new way of doing things and a new way of looking at the world. It takes energy - I remember when I was first "immersing" myself, I would be very tired by early evening, even though I wasn't doing anything physically strenuous. 

It also takes cultural humility. I think it's natural, especially at the beginning, to be comparing how things are done "here" vs. "back home". But be aware of value judgments you are placing on those differences. If your tendency is to automatically think how it's done back home is "right" or "better", it will be harder to adapt and be happy in your new home.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ojosazules11 said:


> …It takes energy - I remember when I was first "immersing" myself, I would be very tired by early evening, even though I wasn't doing anything physically strenuous.…


I agree with that completely. When I first was learning Spanish I had some friends that I would exchange language practice with, an hour or so in Spanish then an hour or so in English. For a long time the Spanish part was exhausting and I would be watching the clock to see when it was time to switch to English. Now, I find it easier to communicate in Spanish unless the other person's English is quite good. I don't understand everything in Spanish but it is often easier than trying to figure out someone's fractured English.


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

sparks said:


> ...I say a true immersion is next to impossible for most newely imported gringos for many reasons


I think you got that right! Travel, TV and computers have pretty well shrunk the world to a size where we can't help but run into people wanting to speak to us in our own language.
My grandmother came to the U.S. when she was 15 years old and spoke only Portuguese. She soon married my grandfather who, for business reasons, had to speak English but preferred that Portuguese be spoken at home. They lived in a small town with a significant population of native Portuguese speakers so it was never completely necessary for my grandmother to learn to speak English. Seventy years later, after being a widow for twenty years, my grandmother died. In the seventy years that she lived in the U.S. she never did learn enough English to carry on more than a very basic conversation through a nearly indecipherable accent. 
I guess my point is that one must try to "immerse", it won't just happen---even after 70 years.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> I know you know the meaning of "immerse", my dear language teacher friend, so I'm not trying to be patronizing  but according to the Oxford dictionary one of the meanings is "to involve oneself deeply in a particular activity or interest". So really, I think the onus is on the person to actively immerse themselves, as opposed to passively being immersed.
> 
> I was working with Central American refugees in Texas a few decades ago and I immersed myself into that community (in Texas). I became fluent in both Spanish and Central American culture, food, etc. because I became "deeply involved".
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you've written above, especially the point about how tiring it can be to spend all of your day communicating (or at least trying to do so) in a new language and dealing with all of the often subtle differences that make up a new cultural environment. When I said I found "immerse" awkward, it's just a prejudice of mine. It sounds too jargony for me. After years of being involved in a profession like TESOL that is overloaded with professional argot, I get my linguistic instincts are over-sensitive to anything that reeks of in-group jargon.


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## WintheWin (Jul 15, 2015)

Northern Baja isn't much of an issue in regards to roads and such. 
I'd feel quite safe going from Ensenada-SD regardless of time of day/night. If you take the toll road from 

Tijuana to Rosarito, it's pretty much impossible to stop, it's a straight road to Rosarito. 

Mexicali-Tecate-TJ is also pretty safe, highwayman-wise, I've done it on my motorcycle a handful of times. The only issues, as previously mentioned, arise from road conditions. 

Toll roads are generally in very good state, comparable to US roads. The "libre" roads, not toll, are usually god-awful/dangerous… because they're narrow, with blind turns, animals, crossing between little pueblitos, and such.

However, I haven't driven past Ensenada, or past San Felipe, so I don't know how safe those roads would be. These seem much more rural, and away from main cities, where there seems to be more respect for US citizens.

As for immersion? Just leave your house, walk to the markets, etc, make an effort, and you should pick up Spanish just fine. Don't use the native's limited english as a crutch, power through it and insist on speaking in English.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

I would not drive across in Tecate as the area has had a problem with police shakedown coming/going across the border. So it's drive at your own risk.
If you plan to drive often across the border, the toll roads will become quite expensive both ways. Most people who drive often take the free road to TJ; it has it's challenges esp. at night so best for someone who knows the road well enough to avoid accidents. Most expats I've met don't drive it but I never had problems as I did it for 2 years and I drove at dark in the a.m. & in the p.m. It all depends on your comfort level and how well adjusted you become to driving in Mexico. 
Whether or not you learn/speak Spanish well depends entirely on whether or nor you speak it daily. I practice my Spanish by watching the Mexican novelas on TV & the noticas so I don't watch any TV in English; I love them and it has really helped my Spanish.


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## jackinbox (Jun 9, 2015)

soylent_green said:


> The worst thing about driving in night in Baja are the road hazards that can pop up and the roads are not as marked or lit up as they are north of the border. And animals. The toll road is probably the safest to drive at night. I try to avoid driving too much at night, but I wouldn't hesitate too if needed.


OK. I had hoped to attend a Xolos game on occasion and maybe once or twice a year go see a concert up in San Diego. I wouldn't make a habit of driving after dark, but I was hoping that it was OK to take the Toll Road from TJ to Rosarito or Ensenada on a rare basis. 



soylent_green said:


> Heaters. The climate along the coast is mild pretty much 12 months a year. Both of our houses in San Diego and south of the border are pretty similar climate wise. We bundle up and put on a fire in the fireplace in baja because we are off grid, and use just space heaters in the states because we have a small condo and that does the trick in those freezing san diego winters hahaha. Really, along the coast it probably doesn't get below mid 40s (per weather.com Imperial Beach's average lows in Dec. and January are 45-46. That should be comparable to Rosarito and Ensenada)


I was looking at the Rosarito temps for this past January and it looks like it may have been a little colder than normal. There were a couple of days where it hit 37. However, when I looked back at 2014 it never got below the 40s. I think we'll be able to manage. 



sparks said:


> I have no idea what the OP meant with immersion ..... it's a catch phrase for someone that wants to move to Mexico and learn Spanish. I say a true immersion is next to impossible for most newely imported gringos for many reasons


My Spanish teacher in college was not a native speaker. He moved down to a town in Mexico (where he knew no one) for a year and took classes. He told me that it was the "immersion" that helped him become fluent more than the classes themselves. That's what I meant by "immersion".



ojosazules11 said:


> It also takes cultural humility. I think it's natural, especially at the beginning, to be comparing how things are done "here" vs. "back home". But be aware of value judgments you are placing on those differences. If your tendency is to automatically think how it's done back home is "right" or "better", it will be harder to adapt and be happy in your new home.


I agree with that and we are not that type. We want to become part of the community and fully realize that many things are going to be different than what we are accustomed to up here. 



WintheWin said:


> Northern Baja isn't much of an issue in regards to roads and such. I'd feel quite safe going from Ensenada-SD regardless of time of day/night. If you take the toll road from Tijuana to Rosarito, it's pretty much impossible to stop, it's a straight road to Rosarito.


Good to know! Thanks!



mes1952 said:


> If you plan to drive often across the border, the toll roads will become quite expensive both ways. Most people who drive often take the free road to TJ; it has it's challenges esp. at night so best for someone who knows the road well enough to avoid accidents. Most expats I've met don't drive it but I never had problems as I did it for 2 years and I drove at dark in the a.m. & in the p.m. It all depends on your comfort level and how well adjusted you become to driving in Mexico.


If I were to drive at night, I think I would certainly use the Cuota, however I plan on attempting the free road during the daylight and see how comfortable I feel. 


Thanks for everyone's input!


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