# Permanent property swap



## steve01

Hi, we've offered our holiday home - a detached villa with pool in the Algarve for sale or swap .

We'd consider swaps up or down in value.

The questions are 
Has anyone done this ?
Does anyone fully understand the Permuta system
What are the implications for swapping from different countries ?


Can anyone recommend websites to list on ?


Any advice would be appreciated


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## canoeman

I did research it as a possibility or alternative and did with a previous property have an estate agent approach me but the "exchange" offered was rather fascicle wouldn't say I understand it totally, major difficulty to me seems to be 
a) finding a swop
b) agreeing value
c) IS & CGT

If agreement can be reached the major saving is on IMT but one of my concerns which I couldn't get an answer to was the IS & CGT position and no one would give me a direct answer

If mortgages are involved with either party then permission would be required from lender, which is unlikely to be given and extremely difficult to swop 

Really don't think cross country is a possibility, as the CGT becomes a definite issue 

Sites Permuta casa porto - Trovit Imóveis, permuta casa por loja Portugal
This one has some background etc Como funciona uma permuta imobiliária | Eliseu Mateus - Aconselhamento a proprietários de imóveis


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## canoeman

After a bit more research
Usual searches etc should be done by both parties, transfer of ownership handled by usual Deed & Registration

Swops only possible in Portugal, although some sites say or promote possibility with other countries, Portugal Financas would treat any swop within EU as a normal house sale or purchase, so there is no saving at all, i.e. IMT, IS would be payable by buyer on full value. Property does not feature in any Dual Tax Treaties, although shares do.

Mortgage or loans on either property raises major complications

Minimum legal swop/sale value is the VPT

If property A & B equal value no IMT, IS, CGT

If property A valued 100,000€ B valued 150,000€
Amount subject to IMT, IS is difference 50,000€ paid by A
CGT paid by B would be pro-rata on 50,000€


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## steve01

thanks canoeman, 
we tried with a Portuguese owned house recently - starting with 2 houses around the same value, 
but by the time we finished discussing it the Portuguese house had gone up considerably and the value for mine had halved.
 interesting , but never likely to happen.
We've also been offered apartments here with a similar result, straight swap - grotty 1 bed apartment worth around 80k - i'll do a straight swap for your 4 bed villa , pool, sea views - they kindly offered - i have no idea what goes on in some peoples heads - guess what we didn't swap.
If anyone is interested in a realistic deal feel free to get in touch


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## PicoAzores

steve01 said:


> Hi, we've offered our holiday home - a detached villa with pool in the Algarve for sale or swap .
> 
> We'd consider swaps up or down in value.
> 
> The questions are
> Has anyone done this ?
> Does anyone fully understand the Permuta system
> What are the implications for swapping from different countries ?
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend websites to list on ?
> 
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated


I swapped successfully USA to Portugal (Azores). I got a house on Pico island on multiple acreage and am remodeling it. Once done I may be considering swapping to continental Portugal to be closer to Universities.

To swap internationally you just find a willing attorney or notary and they will do the papers on one side, then you do it on the other side, it is quite simple and not very expensive, perhaps costs $3000 or less total to close both deals.


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## wink

Exchange your Property with International Property Swap


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## PicoAzores

*Double standards?*

Why the double standards? My post discussing (NOT advertising) an odd permanent property swap website was deleted while the above huge ad and a link to a website is allowed?

In fact, we need to discuss that website called "echange definitif" because it claims to provide permanent home swap services while it is dysfunctional and a huge time waste to many while it looks very attractive to the new comer. I would like people to test it themselves and tell me whether I am wrong by saying that the website is dysfunctional and information trap or whether they are experiencing the same I am experiencing: being completely unable to reach other swappers and the support is completely ignoring any inquiries sent to them. I believe that website is intentionally made that way, so that people register, provide their email addresses and other personal info, then they list their properties, but once they want to email other swappers or even poay for an upgraded listing, there is no way to do it, the buttons you click on take you round in circles. Test it out yourselves, I am not advertising it.


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## canoeman

You should be aware that there is no financial advantage when swapping say Portugal to the State, Finances treat sale as a totally standard sale & purchase


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## PicoAzores

canoeman said:


> You should be aware that there is no financial advantage when swapping say Portugal to the State, Finances treat sale as a totally standard sale & purchase


I traded away from the usa to Portugal and not the other way. I paid about $1500 on each side. To me the advantage was to get out of the chemtrail camp usa and since I was unable to sell my house overthere, I was happy to trade to anything close to my value within the EU.

By permanently swapping one may not gain money, but gain fast exit and must usually sacrifice location and quality of property. There are always three way swaps to make swap more acceptable.


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