# 2 million brits retiring next year- wish I was one of them!



## sunlover2906 (Jan 5, 2012)

Apparently there are going to be 2 million Brits retiring next year! I'm a little way off yet, but I've got my eye on Spain- any expats out there got tips for where I should start?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

sunlover2906 said:


> Apparently there are going to be 2 million Brits retiring next year! I'm a little way off yet, but I've got my eye on Spain- any expats out there got tips for where I should start?


You will be very welcome, all of you! Just spread yourselves about a bit and don´t all head for the Costa Blanca ...

We retired in 2008 and have lived here happily ever since. Several other retired couples we know, however, have returned to the UK. Some ran out of money because they treated retirement like a holiday, others were desperately missing watching their grandchildren growing up. Others just felt isolated and couldn't cope with the Spanish way of life, never quite adjusting to the fact that they were living in a foreign country and things are different here.

So my tips would be:

- Before making a permanent commitment, come and rent somewhere for a few months, or better still a whole year. Some places are completely different in chilly wet wintertime.

- Work out what your priorities are. This is easier for a single person than a couple! How do you envisage spending your days? Do you need to be near to an English-speaking community? Is privacy and self-sufficiency more important to you than being in a lively community with lots of organised activities? 

- As you get older, it is important that you have access to good health care facilities and you can still get around comfortably. We live in a hill town and my knees are already starting to complain ...

- Finally, if you haven't already, learn Spanish - it makes a huge amount of difference even if you live in an English-speaking community.

Buena suerte!


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## sunlover2906 (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks so much for this. Your idea about renting first is really good- I'm usually a bit all guns blazing but I'm realising there's so much to organise and think about that I probably need to slow it down a bit first. I'm working on my Spanish at the moment, getting there slowly! I don't want to be like the friends of my dad who have lived in the costa del sol for 15 years and still can only just about manage to order a beer!Definite food for thought- thankyou. 

Out of interest how did you find your place? Visit trips? Online? 



Alcalaina said:


> You will be very welcome, all of you! Just spread yourselves about a bit and don´t all head for the Costa Blanca ...
> 
> We retired in 2008 and have lived here happily ever since. Several other retired couples we know, however, have returned to the UK. Some ran out of money because they treated retirement like a holiday, others were desperately missing watching their grandchildren growing up. Others just felt isolated and couldn't cope with the Spanish way of life, never quite adjusting to the fact that they were living in a foreign country and things are different here.
> 
> ...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

sunlover2906 said:


> Thanks so much for this. Your idea about renting first is really good- I'm usually a bit all guns blazing but I'm realising there's so much to organise and think about that I probably need to slow it down a bit first. I'm working on my Spanish at the moment, getting there slowly! I don't want to be like the friends of my dad who have lived in the costa del sol for 15 years and still can only just about manage to order a beer!Definite food for thought- thankyou.
> 
> Out of interest how did you find your place? Visit trips? Online?


We were initially interested in the Costa de la Luz (Atlantic coast west of Gibraltar) but soon realised that we would get a lot more house for our money inland. Although it's nice to be by the sea, we are less than an hour away. The advantages of living in a roomy, comfortable house in a friendly village with gorgeous mountain views more than make up for it.

So we picked out some houses online and arranged some viewings through a local estate agent. This was the second house we looked at, and we both knew it was just right for us. It ticked all the boxes on our mutually-agreed check-list:

Enough rooms for us each to have our own private space
Walking distance to bars and shops
No building work needed
Not overlooked by neighbours, or noisy (we don't count the chickens and goats)
etc etc


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## sunlover2906 (Jan 5, 2012)

Sounds perfect! 

A friend told me I should visit some property shows (one of those things with developers etc.. all under one roof) What do you reckon? Are they worth it? I worry that it might be a bit too much having everything altogether....





Alcalaina said:


> We were initially interested in the Costa de la Luz (Atlantic coast west of Gibraltar) but soon realised that we would get a lot more house for our money inland. Although it's nice to be by the sea, we are less than an hour away. The advantages of living in a roomy, comfortable house in a friendly village with gorgeous mountain views more than make up for it.
> 
> So we picked out some houses online and arranged some viewings through a local estate agent. This was the second house we looked at, and we both knew it was just right for us. It ticked all the boxes on our mutually-agreed check-list:
> 
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

sunlover2906 said:


> Sounds perfect!
> 
> A friend told me I should visit some property shows (one of those things with developers etc.. all under one roof) What do you reckon? Are they worth it? I worry that it might be a bit too much having everything altogether....


Dont worry about property shows etc.. Just go over for visits, find an area that ticks your boxes and get a feel for everything. then rent for a year or so before committing to anything more serious. 

Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I'd peruse this thread as well.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...w-years-influx-people-wanting-move-spain.html


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I am retired and now live on a permanent basis in the Canary Islands. Why do I live here? first the climate, second it is a lot cheaper, third very little crime on the island where I live.

I enjoy being able to get outside most days of the year, walking, cycling, bird watching (both kinds), and gardening.

I like the people here, they are very friendly and polite, even the stroppy teenagers are polite.

There are disadvantages but most can be overcome, the rest we just put up with after all we are the immigrants and it is us that has to blend in with the local community.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

sunlover2906 said:


> Sounds perfect!
> 
> A friend told me I should visit some property shows (one of those things with developers etc.. all under one roof) What do you reckon? Are they worth it? I worry that it might be a bit too much having everything altogether....


Property shows? Don't waste your time or money. Many urbanisations may be brimming over with life during the holiday months and be like ghost-towns the rest of the year. 

How would you feel being the only occupant of a block of flats? Maybe a couple more occupied flats in the next block, etc? Think I'm joking - that is the situation in an urb not so very far from here. SWMBO has to go over several times a year to translate for the few who are full time residents when there are problems with the [Spanish] Administration etc. There are 140 flats (100 still unsold) and only 17 full time residents! Guess who has to pay for all the admin/maintenance/cleaning, etc?

First do plenty of research which has to start with researching yourselves: What are *you* really looking for? House/flat? village/town? seaside/country? expat/Spanish environment,? how desperate are you for British food/shops? What is your health like? Do you need good/easy access to hospitals? How are you with coping with extremes of hot/cold? What climate suits you best bear in mind that winter can be very cold and or wet or snowy in some parts and summer can be like being in the middle of the Sahara with temps up to 45°C or more in th*e shade*? What is your budget (a) to buy your accommodation outright or on a mortgage? (b) to live on? (c) will you need certain levels of comfort that some would consider a luxury or can you be fairly basic?

etc. etc.

Second, based on what you have established already and have decided on as what you really need, identify areas that might provide for those needs and those areas that definitely will not. Suffer a little from rheumatics, then the cool damp northwest is probably not a good idea. Need easy access to hospitals, then you will probably be better off nearer to a Provincial Capital. 

To be fairly certain of avoiding disappointment your research will probably take several years (we took five for various personal reasons) to get it right and that will include a few visits looking at property, not necessarily to buy but to get a feel for Spanish houses/flats to avoid the pitfalls (you will find them - that place that looks so prefect has got damp, a huge crack in one wall, terrible neighbours, or... - that so many in your situation fall into. You will not find your perfect home/town/village/province, etc the first time even if you have fairly clear ideas about what you are looking for and where you are looking for it. 

Just take it easy and look very carefully before you leap. Some will tell you that if you don't like one place you can always move. Can you? That can involve a lot of expense even if you are only renting. Will you get on with neighbours or are they the problem? So much will depend on your own attitude whether the locals accept you or make your life a misery.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

I think you should make several trips to different areas, coastal and inland. If you do not need to work then there is no problem where you go. We settled on Inland, preferring the peace and quiet, we live in a lovely community of Spanish and a few expats. There are only 200 houses in our village but we have 3 bars, shop primary school, large municiple pool with bar/restaurant, gym, street gym, paddle courts, doctors and church. Everyone is friendly and you are made very welcome. You get an awful lot more for your money inland as well!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I have recently set up a members' group for those of us who live in inland Spain (i.e. away from the costas) since we, in general, all have a different lifestyle, needs and interests from the "beach people" and may gain from sharing experiences, etc.

The group is at:
Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad - Inland Spain

If anyone else wants to join in, you will be *most* welcome - it's kinda lonely being in a group of one.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> I have recently set up a members' group for those of us who live in inland Spain (i.e. away from the costas) since we, in general, all have a different lifestyle, needs and interests from the "beach people" and may gain from sharing experiences, etc.
> 
> The group is at:
> Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad - Inland Spain
> ...


Three now ...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

sunlover2906 said:


> Sounds perfect!
> 
> A friend told me I should visit some property shows (one of those things with developers etc.. all under one roof) What do you reckon? Are they worth it? I worry that it might be a bit too much having everything altogether....


No, I would avoid them like the plague. You will only see what they want you to see, and you will pay all their "middle man" costs one way or the other.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> No, I would avoid them like the plague. You will only see what they want you to see, and you will pay all their "middle man" costs one way or the other.


I quite agree - a hard sell of what they want to sell not what you want to buy. They will surely be only selling urbanisations/villas/apartments and that might be what you want and nothing wrong with it but there is so much more.

Only one contrary point I would make and that is that there are many who choose to live in a largely expat community on the Costas (and I see nothing wrong with that) and have a perfectly OK life speaking very little Spanish. I'll probably get into trouble for saying that

BTW I have just joined the Inlanders as well.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Only one contrary point I would make and that is that there are many who choose to live in a largely expat community on the Costas (and I see nothing wrong with that) and have a perfectly OK life speaking very little Spanish.


I can find no fault with that - it's a case of "horses for courses" - definitely not my idea of where to go and live nor that of a great many other!


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

We also did our searches before moving to where we live now, we had a holiday home near Mar Menor, after spending a few times there found that lots of owners around us were letting out their properties for short term holiday makers, some very nice and some noisy slobs, so we decided to look at other areas, we wanted a landscape more green trees, with hills, we found the perfect place for us on the Montgo, javea.
it is far enough away from the beaches to enjoy privacy, and many shops, Drs, Churches and restaurants nearby, and if we do fancy a beach walk the Arenal beach and restaurants are only a 15 min drive away.
One thing I would advise,research facilities in the area you like, really look at any property you like properly, for things like wood rot, wood worm, possible leaky roofs,pools leaking or pumps not working etc etc. as there isn't the same type of structural survey's as in the Uk, we found the 'big' problems after we bought ours, 80,000 euros later, and a few more to come, in repairs the place is looking a lot healthier, We still love the house and the area. There are lots of bargain properties on the market, so if you find a big problem structure wise you may be able to lower the price even more.
Then find a good solicitor to do the land searches etc.
Although there are a lot of expats here, they a mixture of British, German, Swiss, Netherlanders, many of the shop assistants do not speak much English, so we are trying to learn a little Spanish after all we live here in this beautiful country, but I find the learning curve at turned 60 is a little slower, we were taught German and French at School, it was so much easier when I was younger.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Only one contrary point I would make and that is that there are many who choose to live in a largely expat community on the Costas (and I see nothing wrong with that) and have a perfectly OK life speaking very little Spanish. I'll probably get into trouble for saying that


Sure, it's perfectly possible but it will cost you. You will need to pay translators and interpreters whenever you need to do anything official or visit the doctor. You will pay an unofficial "expat tax" to have any work done on your house or car by English-speaking tradesmen. You will have to rely on those dreadful English-language newspapers to know what's going on around you. Your Spanish neighbours will be forever strangers.

But if none of that matters to you, then yes, you can get by with very little Spanish in the Brit-zones.


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## sunlover2906 (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks so much for all of this info guys- really thought provoking stuff!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Sure, it's perfectly possible but it will cost you. You will need to pay translators and interpreters whenever you need to do anything official or visit the doctor. You will pay an unofficial "expat tax" to have any work done on your house or car by English-speaking tradesmen. You will have to rely on those dreadful English-language newspapers to know what's going on around you. Your Spanish neighbours will be forever strangers.
> 
> But if none of that matters to you, then yes, you can get by with very little Spanish in the Brit-zones.


Well I did it for 6 years and it honestly isn't as bad as you say. For instance there are volunteer interpreters at the doctors and nearly every gestor speaks English. I'm not aware that the British builders are any more expensive than the Spanish ones and should you have any Spanish neighbours near you it is highly likely that they will speak English too. Loads of the Spanish shops have English speaking staff - they have to because many of their customers (of all nationalities) speak English rather than Spanish. If you are in business there is an entire network of English speaking support - suppliers and shops of every sort, lawyers, dentists and everything. Since moving inland (which I far prefer) I've not actually noticed any change in costs - apart from the beer is cheaper. Actually I don't know why I'm smiling - I sell beer.:confused2:


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I just drink it


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## sunlover2906 (Jan 5, 2012)

Hepa said:


> I just drink it


I sort of see what you guys are saying about not necessarily needing the language, but surely it does limit your experience? I have friends in the UK whose parents do not speak English and they have no life outside of their community at all. For those who have learnt, what's the best method? I've got myself a rosetta stone programme for the PC but by the time I come home from work it's hard to motivate myself!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sunlover2906 said:


> I sort of see what you guys are saying about not necessarily needing the language, but surely it does limit your experience? I have friends in the UK whose parents do not speak English and they have no life outside of their community at all. For those who have learnt, what's the best method? I've got myself a rosetta stone programme for the PC but by the time I come home from work it's hard to motivate myself!


yes it does limit your experience - you only mix with people who speak your language, and miss out on so much

because I speak Spanish & read Valenciano I am 'linked' via facebook to various local organisations including the ayuntamiento - so get to hear of what is going on in the area

also if you can read the local & national papers you find out what is going on everywhere without having to wait for the freebie english language papers - which often get it wrong anyway


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

sunlover2906 said:


> I sort of see what you guys are saying about not necessarily needing the language, but surely it does limit your experience? I have friends in the UK whose parents do not speak English and they have no life outside of their community at all. For those who have learnt, what's the best method? I've got myself a rosetta stone programme for the PC but by the time I come home from work it's hard to motivate myself!


Some people don't particularly want a life outside their own community, and that's their right. But all too often they come to expect an English-speaking service at their local health centre or town-hall and complain when they don't get it. Given the number of different nationalities amongst the expat communities I wonder whether they really expect the doctor to speak five or six different languages? personally I'd rather he concentrated on medicine!

Motivation is the biggest problem with learning a language. I did an evening class while I was still in the UK, and I found that worked for me; even though it was the last thing I felt like doing after a day in the office I forced myself to go because I didn't want to fall behind the rest of the group. I also met some really nice people, some of whom I am still in touch with. I would never have the will-power to sit down and do it on my own.


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## sunlover2906 (Jan 5, 2012)

I think you might be right- a class might be more effective, if only because I'd get competitive with the others in the class and be less likely to drop out!

(I'm a bit like that- you should see me playing monopoly)





Alcalaina said:


> Some people don't particularly want a life outside their own community, and that's their right. But all too often they come to expect an English-speaking service at their local health centre or town-hall and complain when they don't get it. Given the number of different nationalities amongst the expat communities I wonder whether they really expect the doctor to speak five or six different languages? personally I'd rather he concentrated on medicine!
> 
> Motivation is the biggest problem with learning a language. I did an evening class while I was still in the UK, and I found that worked for me; even though it was the last thing I felt like doing after a day in the office I forced myself to go because I didn't want to fall behind the rest of the group. I also met some really nice people, some of whom I am still in touch with. I would never have the will-power to sit down and do it on my own.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

sunlover2906 said:


> I think you might be right- a class might be more effective, if only because I'd get competitive with the others in the class and be less likely to drop out!
> 
> (I'm a bit like that- you should see me playing monopoly)


BUT make sure you get the right type of class. I mistakenly signed up for a two year course and it was hopeless. The teacher did nothing to correct pronunciation - for example: those students who had learnt some French at school just could not get the idea that "de" in Spanish was pronounced differently from "de" in French even though it had the same meaning. At the end of the two year course, most (but not all) could have ordered a beer in a bar and possibly got what they expected. 

The big secret is to get your pronunciation correct, understand how the sounds are formed, it makes it so much easier because when it sounds right, others who are listening stand a much better chance of understanding what you are saying, you also get the answers you are expecting and you gain confidence enabling you to progress far more quickly.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

For starters I had classes in my first year here (I didn't in England because I didn't know that I was coming to Spain until I got here). The class was very much conversation-based with very little grammar and writing and reading which suited me. I am interested in grammar and if I want to know something I look it up - I don't really need a class for most of that. 

That lasted only a few months until I gave it up and then I just got on with it - made a fool of myself and nodded in the wrong places but it's not a bad way to learn.

Now after 12 years in Spain I am back having conversation classes - a group of three or four of us, all at about the same level and one bilingual Argentinian leader. I find I am improving rapidly.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Well I did it for 6 years and it honestly isn't as bad as you say. For instance there are volunteer interpreters at the doctors and nearly every gestor speaks English. I'm not aware that the British builders are any more expensive than the Spanish ones and should you have any Spanish neighbours near you it is highly likely that they will speak English too. Loads of the Spanish shops have English speaking staff - they have to because many of their customers (of all nationalities) speak English rather than Spanish. If you are in business there is an entire network of English speaking support - suppliers and shops of every sort, lawyers, dentists and everything. Since moving inland (which I far prefer) I've not actually noticed any change in costs - apart from the beer is cheaper. Actually I don't know why I'm smiling - I sell beer.:confused2:


Don't come up here then , even those who you know speak perfect english, won't. 
If you need a translator at the doctors you'll have to take your own. Even the cousin of my neighbour , who is a buyer for Asda & speaks it on the phone to the UK daily , has only ever spoken two words to me in english !


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We saw a Spanish TV report last night about British expats in Alicante who don't learn Spanish. They interviewed a British man who had lived there ten years. He said "if they want our money, they should learn English".

Then they interviewed a Spanish greengrocer and asked him why he thought the Brits didn't learn Spanish when every other nationality did. His opinion was that it's because Britain is an island and they don't have any neighbours to talk to. He found it quite amusing when they come into his shop because all they can do is point to things, like chimpanzees.

Says it all, really.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> We saw a Spanish TV report last night about British expats in Alicante who don't learn Spanish. They interviewed a British man who had lived there ten years. He said "if they want our money, they should learn English".
> 
> Then they interviewed a Spanish greengrocer and asked him why he thought the Brits didn't learn Spanish when every other nationality did. His opinion was that it's because Britain is an island and they don't have any neighbours to talk to. He found it quite amusing when they come into his shop because all they can do is point to things, like chimpanzees.
> 
> Says it all, really.




Thats a rather biased report.. I have a ferreteria and it is used mainly by Brits because we sell birthday cards and our biggest customer for plumbing fittings etc are Scandinavians simply because they cannot speak Spanish,


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Well I did it for 6 years and it honestly isn't as bad as you say. For instance there are volunteer interpreters at the doctors and nearly every gestor speaks English. I'm not aware that the British builders are any more expensive than the Spanish ones and should you have any Spanish neighbours near you it is highly likely that they will speak English too. Loads of the Spanish shops have English speaking staff - they have to because many of their customers (of all nationalities) speak English rather than Spanish. If you are in business there is an entire network of English speaking support - suppliers and shops of every sort, lawyers, dentists and everything. Since moving inland (which I far prefer) I've not actually noticed any change in costs - apart from the beer is cheaper. Actually I don't know why I'm smiling - I sell beer.:confused2:



Well said.

I have a Spanish lawyer who speaks perfect English, an accountant who speaks 5 languages,, he wanted the business from all the different nationalities. The local supermarket staff all have flag badges indicating what languages they speak.
I am learning Spanish and all my family are pretty fluent in the language but it is quite possible to get by,, after all people have been getting by in various countries around the world without learning the language.. if people want to just get by then that is there prerogative and people speaking Spanish as a foreign language should not look down their noses at them


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

The other thing is that it's definitely not black and white/can or cannot speak Spanish, there's a whole sliding scale from nothing to practically native and everything in between. I don't know of many long term Brits who speak no English at all - most I know can actually handle simple stuff like shopping. I'd be interested to know what the 'you'll be much better off learning Spanish' proponents consider to be the necessary level of expertise. I am loath to look back down the expertise slope and accuse those lower than me of not being 'good enough' because I don't know what 'good enough' is.:confused2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> The other thing is that it's definitely not black and white/can or cannot speak Spanish, there's a whole sliding scale from nothing to practically native and everything in between. I don't know of many long term Brits who speak no English at all - most I know can actually handle simple stuff like shopping. I'd be interested to know what the 'you'll be much better off learning Spanish' proponents consider to be the necessary level of expertise. I am loath to look back down the expertise slope and accuse those lower than me of not being 'good enough' because I don't know what 'good enough' is.:confused2:


I think you're better off at least _trying_ to speak some Spanish

if you are here for x number of years & still point in the veg shop because you can't be bothered to learn that _potato_ is _patata_ in Spanish (not hard that one, is it?) then you can't really expect the local shopkeeper to go out of his way to help you or be friendly


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Thats a rather biased report.. I have a ferreteria and it is used mainly by Brits because we sell birthday cards and our biggest customer for plumbing fittings etc are Scandinavians simply because they cannot speak Spanish,


Did you see it then?

It wasn't biased, or in any way derogatory. Just ordinary people giving their opinions.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Patata?? don't have them here they are Papas!

Autobus neither they are Guaguas!

Being from the Broad Acres I never learnt how to speak English correctly, or perhaps I did and the rest of you are not yet fluent

Here you just get on with it, because nobody will converse in English, well not unless they are kettled then they become a pain in the Arterial Artery


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> We saw a Spanish TV report last night about British expats in Alicante who don't learn Spanish. They interviewed a British man who had lived there ten years. He said "if they want our money, they should learn English".
> 
> Then they interviewed a Spanish greengrocer and asked him why he thought the Brits didn't learn Spanish when every other nationality did. His opinion was that it's because Britain is an island and they don't have any neighbours to talk to. He found it quite amusing when they come into his shop because all they can do is point to things, like chimpanzees.
> 
> Says it all, really.


He might think that the people who are speaking English to him are native English speakers when they aren't always. I've seen it many, many times when a Scandinavian / German - whatever - non-English speaker uses English to Spanish people. Let's face it a Norwegian isn't going to bother trying Norwegian on them and a Swede isn't going to bother with Swedish. So the Greengrocer thinks that all those who can't speak Spanish are English. On several occasions I've explained to the hapless Spaniard in receipt of a tirade of angry English that the person was actually not English but .......ish. I don't think they are that bothered though. English was being spoken so the English are at fault.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Patata?? don't have them here they are Papas!
> 
> Autobus neither they are Guaguas!
> 
> ...


yes, we use papas too - but it's sort of slang, or at least informal


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> yes, we use papas too - but it's sort of slang, or at least informal


In Colombia it was always "papas"!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

" he found it quite amusing when they come into his shop because all they can do is point to things, like chimpanzees." 
I found this funny, but true. Seen it on many occasions. Around here we've got dutch , belgians, germans, french , swedes, norwegians , danes & I 've never met one that cannot speak spanish & normally along with 3 other languages. The Dutch appear to be the most linguistic though. Unfortunately we have many British that can barely string one word together after nigh on 10 years !

My neighbours wife thinks that anyone speaking another language is english.  If you tell her they are not , but are german , dutch, etc ; she asks " how do you know ?"


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Then they interviewed a Spanish greengrocer ... He found it quite amusing when they come into his shop because all they can do is *point to things like chimpanzees.*


I suppose if I went to a greengrocer's shop and he had chimpanzees on sale I would point, too! However I wouldn't be pointing to things that I would expect to find such as coliflor, cebollas, zanahorias, etc.

When ever I am in the street, I greet everybody with a "Hola. Bueno día" in my best Andalu' even to those I'm sure aren't Spanish (they could be Brit, Dutch, Aleman, I don't care) and they always show themselves up by adopting the head down, don't look eye-to-eye, rush on past attitude in case somebody wants to engage them in a Spanish conversation. I find it quite amusing.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> My neighbours wife thinks that anyone speaking another language is english.  If you tell her they are not , but are german , dutch, etc ; she asks " how do you know ?"


Yes. How do you know? unless you speak those languages, too!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> We saw a Spanish TV report last night about British expats in Alicante who don't learn Spanish. They interviewed a British man who had lived there ten years. He said "if they want our money, they should learn English".
> 
> Then they interviewed a Spanish greengrocer and asked him why he thought the Brits didn't learn Spanish when every other nationality did. His opinion was that it's because Britain is an island and they don't have any neighbours to talk to. He found it quite amusing when they come into his shop because all they can do is point to things, like chimpanzees.
> 
> Says it all, really.


I realise you are probably paraphrasing and might have got it wrong, or he might have been joking, but if there is a chance that he actually believes what he says, it is quite bizarre. Is he suggesting that Brits don't speak Spanish because we don't have a land border with any other country? So the Spanish all speak French and Portuguese and the French all speak Spanish and... err... As I said - bizarre and an opinion that can be ignored I feel.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> My neighbours wife thinks that anyone speaking another language is english.  If you tell her they are not , but are german , dutch, etc ; she asks " how do you know ?"


Which reinforces my point that the Spanish think that anyone who can't speak Spanish is English.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Yes. How do you know? unless you speak those languages, too!


No , I don't speak them but find no difficulty differentiating between german, french, italian, dutch, belgian, etc. Bit more of a struggle between the nordic ones . I can tell the difference between a Canadian & american accent & the same for the aussies & kiwi's. I thought everyone could ? Perhaps I watch too much tv ?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> No , I don't speak them but find no difficulty differentiating between german, french, italian, dutch, belgian, etc. Bit more of a struggle between the nordic ones . I can tell the difference between a Canadian & american accent & the same for the aussies & kiwi's. I thought everyone could ? Perhaps I watch too much tv ?


Only teasing! Even if you do spend too much time watching trannies or playing with CDs, languages can be confusing!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> I realise you are probably paraphrasing and might have got it wrong, or he might have been joking, but if there is a chance that he actually believes what he says, it is quite bizarre. Is he suggesting that Brits don't speak Spanish because we don't have a land border with any other country? So the Spanish all speak French and Portuguese and the French all speak Spanish and... err... As I said - bizarre and an opinion that can be ignored I feel.


I'm not paraphrasing, that is exactly what he said. He was trying to make excuses for his English customers I think. He felt a bit sorry for them as they apparently find it harder to learn Spanish than all the other nationalities do. 

Only of interest if people wonder what the locals think of them, I suppose.

I am more intrigued by the English guy's comment - "If they want our money they should learn English" - and am about to start a separate thread about that.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I'm not paraphrasing, that is exactly what he said. He was trying to make excuses for his English customers I think. He felt a bit sorry for them as they apparently find it harder to learn Spanish than all the other nationalities do.
> 
> Only of interest if people wonder what the locals think of them, I suppose.
> 
> I am more intrigued by the English guy's comment - "If they want our money they should learn English" - and am about to start a separate thread about that.




and there was me hoping for a quiet afternoon...................


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I have recently set up a members' group for those of us who live in inland Spain (i.e. away from the costas) since we, in general, all have a different lifestyle, needs and interests from the "beach people" and may gain from sharing experiences, etc.
> 
> The group is at:
> Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad - Inland Spain
> ...


I'd be interested to know how different your lifestyle is from mine, Baldy....or anyone else living 'inland' for that matter.
I live 'inland' in the sense that it now takes me over twenty minutes to walk to the beach...it's a longer journey every month
If you are thinking of 'lifestyle' in terms of fewer guiris etc. then where I live has fewer than Coin or the Alhaurins, which must be over 80 km inland.. 
We rarely go to the beach, certainly not from April to October when there are a few people about. If we want water we have the pool. My life would be the same whether I lived front-line beach, inland, in deepest campo or up a mountain.
The real difference isn't between 'beachsiders' and 'inlanders', it's between large, more touristy places which tend to have more of an immigrant population.
My village is practically empty from September until the end of June. Places like Sevilla, Granada, the pueblos blancos near here such as Casares and Ronda are as different from my home as are Mijas and Torremolinos.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> The big secret is to get your pronunciation correct, understand how the sounds are formed, it makes it so much easier because when it sounds right, others who are listening stand a much better chance of understanding what you are saying, you also get the answers you are expecting and you gain confidence enabling you to progress far more quickly.


Pronunciation is important, yes, but enunciation (spelling?) is even more important.
Getting the rhythm, the 'rise and fall' of a language is vital to understanding.
Listen to Spanish and Italian, for example. There is a huge difference in the 'music' of the language, just as there is between German and English.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I'd be interested to know how different your lifestyle is from mine, Baldy....or anyone else living 'inland' for that matter.
> I live 'inland' in the sense that it now takes me over twenty minutes to walk to the beach...it's a longer journey every month
> If you are thinking of 'lifestyle' in terms of fewer guiris etc. then where I live has fewer than Coin or the Alhaurins, which must be over 80 km inland..
> We rarely go to the beach, certainly not from April to October when there are a few people about. If we want water we have the pool. My life would be the same whether I lived front-line beach, inland, in deepest campo or up a mountain.
> ...


Dearest Mary, while I can see where you are coming from it is like the comparison between the "little-enders" and the "big-enders" - there is none, i.e. no comparison!

"beach people" are looking for a lifestyle that involves the sun, sea, sand and sangria (+sex if you include Ibiza, so I am told) lifestyle, British shops, bars and, I dare say, bingo (yes, I'll go and wash my mouth out, but only after I have finished this posting) - they are that type of people. A stimulating conversation for them is to discuss how one thinks the latest bit of scandal in Eastenders will end. 

You are not that type of person, neither am I nor a lot of others who are the opposite and may or may not prefer an "inland" location and a lifestyle as far from the lifestyle of "beach people" as it is possible to get, i.e. "inland people". The latter are content to go and mix with the old 'uns down at the paseo etc. and discuss the price that cherries are fetching this year and whether it is a better idea to rip out the cherry trees and replant with grapes like Manolo has done on the other side of the mountain; whereas the former would rather switch off their lone brain cell, go and marinate themselves in sun oil and barbecue their bodies (and brain cell alongside a few other lonely brain cells) on some stretch of sand that looks as though it is covered in beached sea-lions.

Yes, there are those who live inland who would love to have the "beach people's" lifestyle but just don't have the resources or income to support it. We've got a few of those around here, totally disillusioned with Spain, constantly moaning about the fact that they can't afford to live here and dreading the fact that they may have to go back to whence they came but after losing a packet on their "beach property" which they had to sell because they couldn't afford the mortgage now face losing another packet on their ruin of a "charming cortijo" that they can neither afford to make habitable nor sell before going back with their "tails between their legs". They hate it that there are "inland people" who are totally happy living the inland lifestyle and actually make an attempt to speak Spanish (some with a fair degree of fluency) rather than English/Dutch/German, etc. and get on well with the locals.

Call me a "snob" if you wish but I am happy here among the locals, living with the Spanish in Spain rather than with those who want to emigrate but just can't get away from their expatriate version of "the auld country"!

Now where's that mouthwash?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Pronunciation is important, yes, but enunciation (spelling?) is even more important.
> Getting the rhythm, the 'rise and fall' of a language is vital to understanding.
> Listen to Spanish and Italian, for example. There is a huge difference in the 'music' of the language, just as there is between German and English.


Somebody once asked me when we were in a bar in Cumbria how I could tell that the person behind the bar was Spanish and not Italian because (to that person) they sound the same - I told him that it is the rise and fall in the voices that tell you - Italians always sing what they want to say.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Dearest Mary, while I can see where you are coming from it is like the comparison between the "little-enders" and the "big-enders" - there is none, i.e. no comparison!
> 
> "beach people" are looking for a lifestyle that involves the sun, sea, sand and sangria (+sex if you include Ibiza, so I am told) lifestyle, British shops, bars and, I dare say, bingo (yes, I'll go and wash my mouth out, but only after I have finished this posting) - they are that type of people. An intellectual conversation for them is to discuss how one thinks the latest bit of scandal in Eastenders will end.


hmmmm

I choose to live on the coast - but that doesn't describe me at all!!!

I can't remember the last time I sat on the beach - I hate sand !! - but I _do _love to look at the sea in all weathers while I take a coffee or whatever

I admit to a liking for sangria though - and also play Bingo now & again..............it helps my students learn the numbers in Spanish 

don't have English tele - who's running the Queen Vic now :confused2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> hmmmm
> 
> I choose to live on the coast - but that doesn't describe me at all!!!
> 
> ...


"Sand" I hate it too - gets into all sorts of places that it should't and is the very devil to get out - I was born by the sea (about 500yd from the sea wall) but I am not a beach person. I felt quite at home watching the film (or was it the TV series) of Great Expectations with the sea fog on the marshes.

My terminology of "beach-people" v. "inland people" was more relating to lifestyles and the types of people they attract - I perhaps expressed myself poorly.

As for the Queen Vic, didn't she die a bit over a hundred years ago? Now, my sister is soap mad so when she is here she wants the TV tuned to all the crap - doesn't bother me one iota since I very rarely watch television and any particular programme that I want to watch, I download - such as the excellent two-parter "King George and Queen Mary, the Royals who changed the Monarchy"

In lieu of Sangría we have tinto de verano (no fruity bits)


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> hmmmm
> 
> I choose to live on the coast - but that doesn't describe me at all!!!
> 
> ...




Huge bingo hall in Novelda.. and it's a Spanish town


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm an inlander because I wanted a nice big detached house with a lovely view and I couldn't afford one by the coast!

The Costa de la Luz is far removed from Baldi's description of "beach people". It attracts Spanish families in July and August and on warm weekends the rest of the year, and surfers all year round. I would love to live nearer, but it's less than an hour away and we are quite settled where we are for now.

I'm a bit anti-social at the best of times, and the social life enjoyed by the Brits I know who do live on the CdL isn't really my cup of tea - drinks round the pool, St George's Day celebrations at the English-run pub, ladies' outings to shopping centres, etc. I would rather talk online with like-minded souls than face-to-face with people I have little in common with, and I'd rather be on my own with a good book than make small-talk about TV shows and British soaps which I haven't seen.

Somehow that's easier in the village. I'm sure if I lived in an expat community I'd soon get a reputation for being a stuck-up snob.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Quote" it is like the comparison between the "little-enders" and the "big-enders" - there is none, i.e. no comparison!"

Sorry to cause confusion, what I should have referred to was "Big-endians" and "Little-endians" It is a long while since I read the book (roughly 60+ years) and in mitigation, your honour, I would add that because my cholesterol was up a bit, I have been banned from having too many eggs so my brain cells (both of them!) have been suffering.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Well, Baldy, I like the sun, I can't stand Sangria....I'm going to look up 'sex' in the dictionary before I comment...
Yes, I know what you mean. We ended up where we are because my son and dil had a house we could use for a while But we struck lucky. My dil is a bit of a snob and wouldn't live anywhere with a preponderance of a 'certain type' of immigrant. She first came here over fifteen years ago when there were no roads, just dirt tracks and few if any guiris.
But are there really that many 'beach' types? That kind of life sounds very boring.
Like Alca, I'm quite anti-social. I prefer books, music, good talk...and I must have someone to argue with, usually to test out my own ideas.
Before we got involved with ADANA, we knew only two or three people here. When my Spanish friends and I get together, we moan about the dreadful manners of the young, how things were better when we were kids...the usual old biddies' stuff.
I wouldn't fit in with the 'Ladies Clubs' I've been to to promote ADANA. For one thing, I don't do 'dressed up' any more. I last wore a skirt and heels in 2004. Secondly, I'm useless at small talk. I was once overheard at a Civic Reception (I was Mayor) saying 'Oh so you play the cello...how frightfully interesting...'
We looked at Coin when we first arrived but didn't feel comfortable there.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Speaking of tv programmes....we had a late night/early morning yesterday so stayed in bed until almost noon (and, incidentally, proved by so doing that there is no life after death....were there, my and OH's mothers would have stripped the duvet off us about four hours before we got up).
We watched a programme called 'The Big Question' and saw a piece about 'time for repentance'. An earnest evangelical Pastor announced that 'very soon, a trumpet would sound, the heavens will open and Jesus will appear with his angels to guide believers to Heaven'...one presumes on a sort of celestial elevator.
One might be tempted to think that 'hearing a trumpet sound and seeing the heavens open' could be likened to arriving at Glasgow Airport on a Ryanair flight....but seriously...these people are free to walk amongst us and what is really scary...work as teachers, nurses, doctors, train drivers...
There was a lot of serious discussion about 'repentance'.
Me, I prefer the Leonard Cohen take on it: _'When they told me to repent, I asked them what it meant'._


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> ..I'm going to look up 'sex' in the dictionary before I comment...


Sorry, can't help you there Mary, I'm not your type!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry, can't help you there Mary, I'm not your type!


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## charlee (May 9, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> Somebody once asked me when we were in a bar in Cumbria how I could tell that the person behind the bar was Spanish and not Italian because (to that person) they sound the same - I told him that it is the rise and fall in the voices that tell you - Italians always sing what they want to say.


 well I
have obviously lived in Italy way too long !!!!


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## jules 123 (Apr 26, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Pronunciation is important, yes, but enunciation (spelling?) is even more important.
> Getting the rhythm, the 'rise and fall' of a language is vital to understanding.
> Listen to Spanish and Italian, for example. There is a huge difference in the 'music' of the language, just as there is between German and English.


Agree with this as I spend a lot of time in Denia where there are lots of nationalities and I like trying to guess where people are from. So when I'm wandering along a street, I'll identify the language by the way the words are enunciated rather than actually listening to the conversation. The Spanish are the easiest ..... it's the thing they do with their mouths.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jules 123 said:


> Agree with this as I spend a lot of time in Denia where there are lots of nationalities and I like trying to guess where people are from. So when I'm wandering along a street, I'll identify the language by the way the words are enunciated rather than actually listening to the conversation. The Spanish are the easiest ..... it's the thing they do with their mouths.



As someone has said, Italian 'sings'. There are hardly any guttural sounds in Italian whereas Spain has its 'j' and 'h', depending of course on region.
It's like German and English...both Germanic languages but with completely different rhythms.
I taught MFL for years to ages five to seventy and always encouraged students to listen for the 'music' in the languages I taught.


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## jules 123 (Apr 26, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> As someone has said, Italian 'sings'. There are hardly any guttural sounds in Italian whereas Spain has its 'j' and 'h', depending of course on region.
> It's like German and English...both Germanic languages but with completely different rhythms.
> I taught MFL for years to ages five to seventy and always encouraged students to listen for the 'music' in the languages I taught.


I'm slightly deaf so I've almost subconsciously adopted the habit of listening to the "tune" of the spoken word.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> There are hardly any guttural sounds in Italian whereas Spain has its 'j' and 'h', depending of course on region.


YOU have a sound for "h"? Not here unless it is a Brit who hasn't yet got the hang of it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> YOU have a sound for "h"? Not here unless it is a Brit who hasn't yet got the hang of it.



Yes. Andaluz is something else....We have a retired Guardia chap working with us who, when exasperated, repeats'H de P' at top volume with much aspiration....
I have few problems speaking with most people here but some of the pure campesinos are very difficult to follow.
One of my friends, Pepe, speaks differently to me than to his family and his workers. It's like two languages...which I guess it is.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes. Andaluz is something else....We have a retired Guardia chap working with us who, when exasperated, repeats'H de P' at top volume with much aspiration....
> I have few problems speaking with most people here but some of the pure campesinos are very difficult to follow.
> One of my friends, Pepe, speaks differently to me than to his family and his workers. It's like two languages...which I guess it is.


I have a customer, also called Pepe as it happens. I can't understand a word he says. I mentioned this to Lorenzo (who speaks beautifully at least when he's sober) and he said not to worry - the Spanish can't understand him either. There are some English who can't string two correct words of English together so I suppose it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that the same is true of some Spanish.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> I have a customer, also called Pepe as it happens. I can't understand a word he says. I mentioned this to Lorenzo (who speaks beautifully at least when he's sober) and he said not to worry - the Spanish can't understand him either. There are some English who can't string two correct words of English together so I suppose it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that the same is true of some Spanish.



I'm sure we've all noticed some posts written in semi-literate English. Are there a similarly large number of Spaniards who can't write grammatically or spell correctly in their language, I wonder?
I had this discussion re Czechs with my Czech friend in Prague and she solemnly assured me that each and every Czech spoke and wrote their language with no errors of any kind.
She's a teacher so I guess she can be forgiven for believing this but somehow I doubt it's true.
I worked in education and I _*know*_ it's not true of the English.
Don't know about Scots, Welsh and Irish.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

You quite often see mistakes in Spanish signs - one I've noticed a few times is substitution of 'B' for 'V'.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> You quite often see mistakes in Spanish signs - one I've noticed a few times is substitution of 'B' for 'V'.


Doesn't it rather depend on whether you come from Balencia or Varcelona?


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I have few problems speaking with most people here but some of the pure campesinos are very difficult to follow.
> One of my friends, Pepe, speaks differently to me than to his family and his workers. It's like two languages...which I guess it is.


Tell me about it!
When we first arrived here, we had both taken private spanish lessons from a lady from Madrid and thought we were fluent enough to get by.
But she warned us that Andaluz was a totally different thing and she was so right!

It took us ages to be able to have even a limited conversation with our neighbours as we could hardly understand a word they were saying (mucho rapido and words shortened or radically changed at every opportunity).
Nowadays we can talk with them pretty well, but that is just our village. 
Every village here seems to have its own 'language code' where, if they are feeling unfriendly, the locals will make out they cannot understand what someone from a village down the road is saying to them.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Solwriter said:


> Tell me about it!
> When we first arrived here, we had both taken private spanish lessons from a lady from Madrid and thought we were fluent enough to get by.
> But she warned us that Andaluz was a totally different thing and she was so right!


You were lucky, someone warned you beforehand ... We thought we'd moved to the wrong country!

Cai (aka Cádiz) is reckoned to be the most "cerrado" of all. I find that watching Canal Sur news helps, but I could still barely understand the Barbate fishermen being interviewed last night.

Re spelling errors, B is often written for V but I recently discovered that in medieval Spanish some words that are now spelled with a V were then written with a B. A bit like the F for S in old English. Otherwise I suppose because because Spain is a purely phonetic language it is harder to make mistakes - everything is written as it sounds, thanks to the Real Academia. There are lots of contractions though, e.g. _pal_ for _para el_, which take you by surprise when you first see them.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> You were lucky, someone warned you beforehand ... We thought we'd moved to the wrong country!



I guess it's the same for people moving to different parts of the UK.
But more so!



Alcalaina said:


> Cai (aka Cádiz) is reckoned to be the most "cerrado" of all. I find that watching Canal Sur news helps, but I could still barely understand the Barbate fishermen being interviewed last night.
> 
> Re spelling errors, B is often written for V but I recently discovered that in medieval Spanish some words that are now spelled with a V were then written with a B. A bit like the F for S in old English. Otherwise I suppose because because Spain is a purely phonetic language it is harder to make mistakes - everything is written as it sounds, thanks to the Real Academia. There are lots of contractions though, e.g. _pal_ for _para el_, which take you by surprise when you first see them.


It's the contractions which I still sometimes struggle with as they appear to be different depending on locality.
But we have picked up the local 'slang'(?) quite well. 
So much so I have to do a double take sometimes and work out what the real phrase is.


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## Gorky's Mum (Jan 26, 2012)

sunlover2906 said:


> Apparently there are going to be 2 million Brits retiring next year! I'm a little way off yet, but I've got my eye on Spain- any expats out there got tips for where I should start?


Hi! Greetings from Extremadura!
I have read the other answers you've had and there is a lot of sense there!
I would say first decide what you want from retirement in spain. Do you need an expat community or do you want to live the spanish way of life? Then you will know where to look.
My husband and I retired here 3 years ago. We live in one of the most beautiful areas, huge lakes, wonderful country, welcoming people, no crime, empty roads and cheap property. The price for all this is no-one speaks english, you can't get things like baked beans or gravy granules or castor sugar without a long drive, there are no take-aways, and it is 4 hours from the nearest airport etc etc etc.
Having said all that, it is glorious! We have not had one single moment of regret and hope you find the same contentment when the time comes.
I would agree with others that you have to visit possible places and I guess renting for a time is the sensible thing to do, but having been here twice we knew it was right, sold up and bought a house here, and then moved with our 6 cats and got stuck in. I am a bit gung-ho too so it's probably best to do as I say not as I do!!
Anyway, good luck with it all and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.


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