# What is needed to live in Joburg with a 4 persons family ?



## ericwlo (Feb 4, 2011)

Hello,

I have received an attractive job opportunity to relocate in Johannesburg permanently.

I am now looking more specifically the pros and cons of this job offer.

My company is offering the following:
- Gross Salary equivalent to 80.000€/year
- Company car + Fuel card
- Medical aid
- Commissions on performances

I will relocate with my family (wife + 2 kids (10 & 12)
I am planning to live in Sandton (Lycee Francais, Riverside or around)
My recurring costs are mainly - school tuitons (10.000R/m) + housing rent + daily expenses (food, Internet, mobile, 2nd car, ...)

What are your views on this proposal - balance revenues / expenses? And what do you think on the real cost of life in Johannesburg for a 4 persons family?


Besides the South African natural attractiveness (weather, nature, leisures, ...), I am looking for any advises to confirm my views.

Thanks for your help.

Eric


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

You should be fine.


----------



## Siouxzee (Dec 8, 2010)

Yes definitely fine. The salary is more than adequate and they are paying for some of your expenses.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Kindly ensure that your Company appoints a Risk assesor to check out your Rental Home as well as brief you and your family on the local situation and customs..


----------



## ericwlo (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks for your messages.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

A gun.


----------



## cmdsg (Sep 10, 2010)

Halo are you a very sad person

all we see your point of view
please let people think with their own brains


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Halo's comment is valid.
I had two firearms, both the wife and I were pro-efficient in their use, not gun buffs, but once or twice a year at the shooting range.
I cant think of a single one of my friends in the 35-65 yo age group who did not have at least one firearm in the house.
but then most of them would have spent time doing national service.
and learning about firearms.
If I went back to SA I can assure you the first thing I would be applying for is a fire arm licence.
I agree cmdsg, people SHOULD think with their brains.

and one of the questions they should ask is why most middle income plus families of all colours prefer to have a firearm in the house.

If you think I'm exagerating, look up the SAPS Stats on Firearm ownership per household.

Bonoite, Dorme bien.


----------



## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Halo's comment is valid.
> I had two firearms, both the wife and I were pro-efficient in their use, not gun buffs, but once or twice a year at the shooting range.
> I cant think of a single one of my friends in the 35-65 yo age group who did not have at least one firearm in the house.
> but then most of them would have spent time doing national service.
> ...


I think what he may mean is the difference between an informed reply giving relevant information and a flippant short reply. look at the difference between your post and the other. if we give people balanced advice they can make there own decisions.


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Stick to the topic please people, OP's questions have been answered, do not start *another* fight...amongst each other!!!!!


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

:focus::focus:


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Stevan said:


> I think what he may mean is the difference between an informed reply giving relevant information and a flippant short reply. look at the difference between your post and the other. if we give people balanced advice they can make there own decisions.


The question was asked..... I was also going to add no common sense but thought better of it until now 

Sometimes we are forced into situations but why someone would willfully move with their family to Johannesburg is beyond me.

Just make sure your insurance is paid up in FULL as its something you need the most in SA :

Car
Medical
Life
Home


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> The question was asked..... I was also going to add no common sense but thought better of it until now
> 
> Sometimes we are forced into situations but why someone would willfully move with their family to Johannesburg is beyond me.
> 
> ...



Halo, not being funny here, but I think insurance being paid up is important anywhere and every where on this planet!!


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> Halo, not being funny here, but I think insurance being paid up is important anywhere and every where on this planet!!


True but not to the extent when taking a % of NET wage. And if hard times fall and you don't have them in SA you are screwed while in the UK/Canada/OZ there are safety nets.

eg because so many people in SA drive without Insurance you NEED fully comp or you run the risk of not getting the money from person A (I've been there).

As I keep saying life is a gamble but the odds are not with you in SA.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

I think I would prefer to be treated for a heart attack or stroke in Ireland or in the UK on the NHS rather than what I have seen at the Helen Joseph, Bara or Thembisa Hospital.
even the rooster agrees.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Its those little things you take for granted over here that people who move to SA forget UNTIL it hits them..... Many times, years later they cannot leave. So when moving to South Africa, think long and hard and preferably live there for a year before you make the move.

I've lived all over the world and while SA is a beautiful place - Its just not comparable to the USA/Canada/OZ/Europe/Japan/Taiwan/ME etc


----------



## EthenGroom (Feb 1, 2011)

HI

I think with the salary and other benefits of the job, you should be fine. Sandton is a lovely place to stay in, and quite safe. Don't worry about the crime, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Compare to your local area (and remember that many crimes are NOT reported)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...estats/2010/provinces/gauteng/pdf/sandton.pdf

10+ Car Jackings a MONTH.... Wow.... Do we have that in Australia for a whole year... I wonder?


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

EthenGroom said:


> HI
> 
> I think with the salary and other benefits of the job, you should be fine. Sandton is a lovely place to stay in, and quite safe. Don't worry about the crime, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.


which people would that be? Ethengroom?


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Daxk said:


> which people would that be? Ethengroom?


Here we go again...


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Not at all, Johanna, a civil question asked in a civil manner.

I just wish to know which people?

It certainly is not the SA Police Statistics that are exaggerating.

So I am curious as to which peole Ethengroom is referring?


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Not at all, Johanna, a civil question asked in a civil manner.
> 
> I just wish to know which people?
> 
> ...


Not aimed at you alone Daxk!

Just the way this thread is turning out again....OP only wanted to know what was needed ( I would suppose financially ) but as always, all the SA threads end up by one telling the other how good/bad the country is...
:juggle::juggle:


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

EthenGroom said:


> HI
> 
> I think with the salary and other benefits of the job, you should be fine. Sandton is a lovely place to stay in, and quite safe. Don't worry about the crime, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.


What he says is true. Crime for the most part is grossly over stated especially on the internet. The S.A.P.S reported about 3-4 years ago that on the (at that time) 18 000 murders around 500 were related to housebreaking, car jacking or armed business robbery. Mostly South Africa suffers from a large group of poor people with poor impulse control and knives who stab each other over the smallest thing.

Don't leave your cell phone lying around etc though for example...it will almost certainly get stolen.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Bootes said:


> What he says is true. Crime for the most part is grossly over stated especially on the internet. The S.A.P.S reported about 3-4 years ago that on the (at that time) 18 000 murders around 500 were related to housebreaking, car jacking or armed business robbery. Mostly South Africa suffers from a large group of poor people with poor impulse control and knives who stab each other over the smallest thing.
> 
> Don't leave your cell phone lying around etc though for example...it will almost certainly get stolen.


Excuse me.... I just posted Sandton's crime stats.... Want to compare it to a top suburb in Melbourne/Perth?


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Halo said:


> Excuse me.... I just posted Sandton's crime stats.... Want to compare it to a top suburb in Melbourne/Perth?


Want to compare cost of living ? Freedom from the nanny state ? 

man, there's more to life that putting yourself in the place you feel the least likely it is something flukishly horrible will happen to you.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Bootes said:


> Want to compare cost of living ? Freedom from the nanny state ?
> 
> man, there's more to life that putting yourself in the place you feel the least likely it is something flukishly horrible will happen to you.


Anytime..... any day of the week. Nanny state? (only in the Media)

Bottom line... If you like it (GREAT) - but for people thinking of moving their with children need to think real hard.


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Halo said:


> Anytime..... any day of the week. Nanny state? (only in the Media)
> 
> Bottom line... If you like it (GREAT) - but for people thinking of moving their with children need to think real hard.


Why ?

Other than the terrible case of the three year old Afrikans girls a few months back where have you ever heard of white kids being murdered in S.A ?

The three others that come to mind are the girl killed by her white boyfriend and the two school kids murdered by their white friend.

Sure if you can't handle a 1 in 4 million chance of your kid being murdered don't come to South Africa. They have a 1 .5 million in 1 chance of dying on the plane flight.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bootes said:


> Why ?
> 
> Other than the terrible case of the three year old Afrikans girls a few months back where have you ever heard of white kids being murdered in S.A ?
> 
> ...


with the Concerns over SAA's Aircraft maintenance, I would put the odds higher than that
lane:


----------



## Siouxzee (Dec 8, 2010)

Hi Bootes
I dont think it is solely about murder even though I could give you a few examples of white kids being murdered in the last few months. There are also the rapes, highjackings, smash and grabs, armed robberies in homes and businesses of which there are just far too many of. I am sure we could all tell of many stories where we know people personally that this has happened to or ourselves. It is not just media hype.
In addition it is also about the general state of lawlessness, ie the taxi's how they drive and in general how people are such a danger on our roads, 1000's killed every year. We are one of the top countries in the world for road accidents. Simply because people in this country do not respect the law. This again is not media hype.
Then there is the management of the various municipalities or should I say gross mismanagement. In addition to the inept Govt. departments. 2 people last year commited suicide because it was impossible for them to get ID books. Again we could all tell many stories of how long it takes to get ID books, birth certificates etc Getting the documentation with the wrong name or it simply being "lost". 
Police just not pitching at traffic accidents or taking hours to get to crime scenes.
Then there was the teachers strike last year and 2years before that which involved violence in one case even beating up pupils who tried to attend school. 
The public servants strike (including nurses, doctors) who banned people from getting into hospitals (and getting essential medicines like ARV's) and beating up other staff who did not strike. Before you say only at Govt hospitals they went to private hospitals and were stopping people being able to enter hospitals.
And in the last week the truck drivers strike, which again involved violence beating up other truck drivers who did not want to strike and burning trucks.
Yes I know people strike for higher salaries in other 1st world countries but not harming children and innocent people in the process.
At the end of the day it comes down to a personal choice and there is neither a right or wrong. You choose to stay in SA with the good and the bad, many have left and some of us are choosing to leave.
Anybody who is coming in needs to be aware not just of the "murders" which I agree living in a good suburb you are more than likely not going to be murdered. It is all the other issues that come with living in South Africa. It is simply about making an informed decision.
If knowing all that you chose to come here. South Africa has alot of pro's.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bootes said:


> Why ?
> 
> Other than the terrible case of the three year old Afrikans girls a few months back where have you ever heard of white kids being murdered in S.A ?
> 
> ...


You obviously do not have children.
Ask any parent here the same question when their young child goes missing in a crowded place.
Whats the first thing they fear?


----------



## Siouxzee (Dec 8, 2010)

If anyone is interested here are the "official" crime stats for April 09 - March 10 on the SAPS website
Crime Statistics | 2010 | Per Category


----------



## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Murder is murder.
Why refer to the murderer's and/or victim's colour Bootes?

Please do not start another TheRooster etc battle. Stick to facts.


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Johanna said:


> Murder is murder.
> Why refer to the murderer's and/or victim's colour Bootes?
> 
> Please do not start another TheRooster etc battle. Stick to facts.


You're right, murder is murder. But because there are no statistics that go by "class" group, but there are many studies that go by colour. I'm actually trying to show that murder for the middle/upper class is far lower than the lower class. Because this is the group any expats will be entering. Whites are almost all middle/upper class in S.A so it's a pretty obvious correlation.


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Siouxzee said:


> If anyone is interested here are the "official" crime stats for April 09 - March 10 on the SAPS website
> Crime Statistics | 2010 | Per Category


Thanks. Interesting to see how much it has come down.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bootes said:


> Thanks. Interesting to see how much it has come down.


Wonder what the Police did to bring it down?
but you like ISS dont you?
Crime Hub - Reliability of the crime statistics by criminal justice researchers


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Simple reality :

Car-Jackings in Australia are basically non-existent while in Sandton (one suburb) it's monstrous in comparison. Please explain?


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Halo said:


> Simple reality :
> 
> Car-Jackings in Australia are basically non-existent while in Sandton (one suburb) it's monstrous in comparison. Please explain?


South Africa is a third world country (albeit a wealth one) with massive wealth discrepencies. Why would you compare it to Australia ? Try a country with similiar conditions like Brazil. Or Russia.


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Daxk said:


> Wonder what the Police did to bring it down?
> but you like ISS dont you?
> Crime Hub - Reliability of the crime statistics by criminal justice researchers


Thet increased the police force to 190 000. But you're right, the police weren't the main factor. The decrease of poverty was. S.A has doubled it's GDP since 2002.

Look.

http://www.google.co.za/imgres?imgu...bpOaiy-LwJ&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bootes said:


> Thet increased the police force to 190 000. But you're right, the police weren't the main factor. The decrease of poverty was. S.A has doubled it's GDP since 2002.
> 
> I think the increase in disposable income would affect "petty" crimes such as shoplifting or food related crimes where someone is stealing to feed their families.
> (strange that unlike Zambia,Zimbabwe,Kenya,Tanzania and the DRC, I have never seen someone die of hunger in SA)
> ...


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Thread title????? What is needed to live in Joburg with a 4 persons family
:focus:

Jo


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

I thought I would answer your GDP chart seperately.
1) according to your chart the per capita income for 49 million South Africans is ZAR58,000 pa?


2)The Inflation vs GDP chart shows two anomalies.
a)that inflation dropped to 2% in 2004, and that inflation for 2009 is just under 12%?

I do an annual online shop with PicknPay every year on the 16th December.
same products, same sizes and quantities.
since 2004 when I left.
lowest was 16% pa average is 22% increase in my basket of goods.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jojo said:


> Thread title????? What is needed to live in Joburg with a 4 persons family
> :focus:
> 
> Jo



If its not relevant to title thread dont post it!

Jo


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

OK, Jojo, I can delete my petty crime answer, however the one on inflation is relevant iro of cost of living in Johannesburg and surrounds.
its also something the OP can do, register on the shopping site and do a monthly shop of what their normal menu is.
that will give them relevant costs according to their preferred foods.


----------



## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Daxk said:


> I thought I would answer your GDP chart seperately.
> 1) according to your chart the per capita income for 49 million South Africans is ZAR58,000 pa?
> 
> 
> ...


Shrug. This is enivitable in a rapidly growing economy. More demand = less supply. For years our cost of living was incredibly low and it simply could not stay ths way. The rand slipped a few years back, the oil price wobbled to 120$ per barell and the cost of food increased. South Africa is also almost solely responsible for providing our neghbours with processed good. Again there is more demand = higher price for that commodity. Now it's still relatively"low". Also food prices world wide have increased especially in developing countries. There is nothing unique about South Africa having this type of inflation. If you think there is you are extremly narrow sighted.


----------



## ursjim (Dec 6, 2010)

believe!


----------



## kiwifruity (Dec 5, 2010)

cmdsg said:


> Halo are you a very sad person
> 
> all we see your point of view
> please let people think with their own brains




.........and so I rest my case...



Roxy


----------



## kiwifruity (Dec 5, 2010)

ericwlo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have received an attractive job opportunity to relocate in Johannesburg permanently.
> 
> ...



Hope all is going well - ditto to what Daxk said - all good! Only been to JHB once - via Sun City - a little flat for me, miss the mountains, but millions of SA love it there!

Good luck with your future plans:clap2:


Roxy


----------

