# Questions about Spousal visa if he is working remotely



## MikaylaAbroad

Hello,

I am looking to move to Germany in 2021 and and planning to apply for the EU Blue Card and to bring my spouse in on the spousal visa. However, his job would be working remotely from Germany for a US company. Do you know how this would impact A) our tax situation B) if I do not get the EU Blue card and instead get the German temporary residence permit instead, will it be harder for him to get his visa?

Thanks for your help!


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## Nononymous

I can't speak to the immigration or visa issues. On the tax front, assuming this were a permanent or indefinite stay in Germany, what would need to happen is this:

As a resident of Germany, your spouse would owe German taxes on that income, so would need to obtain a Steuernummer and possibly set up as a freelancer to do this. (What matters is where the work is performed, not where the employer is located.) You would also need to look into possible health insurance, pension and other social insurance implications - your employment status might also be a factor to consider. It won't necessarily be cheap - you might do well to pay for some independent advice on both tax and insurance fronts.

If your spouse is not a US citizen, no other tax filing required. If your spouse is a US citizen and continues filing US tax returns (as they would be obliged to do, although a great many do not) then they would generally pay no US tax because they would either exclude that income with the FEIE or be credited for German taxes paid, which are likely higher.

Where it gets tricky is if the spouse remains an employee on US payroll. You don't want federal income tax withheld, nor do you want anything to with state taxes, plus there's FICA and social security and you definitely don't want to be paying for expensive US health insurance if you don't actually live in the country. As a general rule it's probably simpler at this point to change status from an employee to a contractor and simply invoice every month and be paid with no withholding. There are a number of other potential long-term complications for US citizens abroad to be wary of, particularly around investing and starting a business.


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## ALKB

MikaylaAbroad said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am looking to move to Germany in 2021 and and planning to apply for the EU Blue Card and to bring my spouse in on the spousal visa. However, his job would be working remotely from Germany for a US company. Do you know how this would impact A) our tax situation B) if I do not get the EU Blue card and instead get the German temporary residence permit instead, will it be harder for him to get his visa?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


If you get a BlueCard, your dependent spouse gets work rights in German - you will need to sort out taxes, social contributions and health insurance.

If you get a regular work permit, things get more complicated. Your spouse will have to show basic German language skills before being granted a dependent spouse permit and he won't get an automatic right to work for 1-3 years. That includes any work, even remotely for a foreign company.

He could try to get his own freelancer visa but with only one client which is also his former employer, this may also be problematic.


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## MikaylaAbroad

Thank you both for your advice! I will look into the freelance visa for him and see if contracting with his employer would be feasible!
Any advice on getting a freelancer visa for him?


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## Nononymous

I'm a bit out of touch, but word on the street is that the freelancer visa is not as easy to obtain as it once was. You are intended to set up a business with local clients, ideally more than one. Wanting to keep your US job and work from your bedroom doesn't really qualify.

Most of the people who live long-term in the EU while working remotely for an offshore client typically have a means of being there that is not tied to employment: they are dual citizens or are married to someone with EU nationality, or they are trailing spouses of someone on a work visa (sometimes these spouses don't have a work permit themselves, in which case they are working under the table and not bothering with local taxes, which is fairly safe for a year or two but not a great plan for a permanent stay).


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## MikaylaAbroad

Nononymous said:


> I'm a bit out of touch, but word on the street is that the freelancer visa is not as easy to obtain as it once was. You are intended to set up a business with local clients, ideally more than one. Wanting to keep your US job and work from your bedroom doesn't really qualify.
> 
> Most of the people who live long-term in the EU while working remotely for an offshore client typically have a means of being there that is not tied to employment: they are dual citizens or are married to someone with EU nationality, or they are trailing spouses of someone on a work visa (sometimes these spouses don't have a work permit themselves, in which case they are working under the table and not bothering with local taxes, which is fairly safe for a year or two but not a great plan for a permanent stay).



So in your understanding, if I hold an EU Blue Card, is there any legal way for my spouse to work at his current company (online) in USA?

Thank you again for your advice!


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## Nononymous

I'm not specifically aware of the Blue Card regulations, you'll need to look that up. But basically this is the situation:

If your status in Germany includes a spousal work permit, then your spouse could legally work for their company in the US. The tax arrangements would be a bit complex (see my first reply) and it likely makes sense to resign the salaried position and switch to contractor. But it's doable.

If your status does not include a spousal work permit, then your spouse would need to obtain their own work permit, on their own merits. There are always exceptions because there's a surprising amount of flexibility with matters left to the discretion of the individual bureaucrat, but as a general rule I'd assume that the chances of getting a freelancer visa for someone who only wanted to work remotely for a US employer are probably rather slim. However, if your spouse is allowed to live in Germany (i.e. has a residence permit but without permission to work) because you are making enough money to support the household, then the authorities may be more lenient. (Who knows, it's possible that by now the authorities have come to realize that if they don't grant a work permit to a trailing spouse with a remote job, they'll just lose the tax revenue when it all happens under the table anyway. I would not however threaten this.)


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## ALKB

MikaylaAbroad said:


> So in your understanding, if I hold an EU Blue Card, is there any legal way for my spouse to work at his current company (online) in USA?
> 
> Thank you again for your advice!


A spouse of a BlueCard holder gets full work rights. He will have to arrange to pay tax, health insurance and social contributions into the German systems.


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## MikaylaAbroad

Nononymous said:


> I'm not specifically aware of the Blue Card regulations, you'll need to look that up. But basically this is the situation:
> 
> If your status in Germany includes a spousal work permit, then your spouse could legally work for their company in the US. The tax arrangements would be a bit complex (see my first reply) and it likely makes sense to resign the salaried position and switch to contractor. But it's doable.
> 
> If your status does not include a spousal work permit, then your spouse would need to obtain their own work permit, on their own merits. There are always exceptions because there's a surprising amount of flexibility with matters left to the discretion of the individual bureaucrat, but as a general rule I'd assume that the chances of getting a freelancer visa for someone who only wanted to work remotely for a US employer are probably rather slim. However, if your spouse is allowed to live in Germany (i.e. has a residence permit but without permission to work) because you are making enough money to support the household, then the authorities may be more lenient. (Who knows, it's possible that by now the authorities have come to realize that if they don't grant a work permit to a trailing spouse with a remote job, they'll just lose the tax revenue when it all happens under the table anyway. I would not however threaten this.)


Thank you so much for the info so far. One more question, do you know if he could apply for this visa while in Germany? Or do I need to go alone to Germany and leave him behind in the US to apply for the family reunification visa or spousal visa?


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## ALKB

MikaylaAbroad said:


> Thank you so much for the info so far. One more question, do you know if he could apply for this visa while in Germany? Or do I need to go alone to Germany and leave him behind in the US to apply for the family reunification visa or spousal visa?


He could apply directly with you, later from the US or, as the USA is a 'privileged' country, he could enter Germany on a tourist visa obtained at the border and apply in-country. Please note that the last option does not give him any sort of work rights until a residence permit (with work rights) has been issued! Depending on how things go with the pandemic, one can only guess how long an in-country application may take.


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## Nononymous

If they showed up in Germany intending to apply for a residence pemit with permission to work, they would not be allowed to work until such a permit had been issued. However, with remote work being essentially undetectable, one could probably manage to stay on US payroll for 90 days without any great difficulty. Just need to be careful making the transition to paying German instead of US taxes, if the application is successful, so that one doesn't land in any retroactive trouble.


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