# 3500 Americans coming to the Cadiz area



## lbernal (Oct 6, 2011)

As I sit here in Miami, Florida I wonder what the talk is among the locals in Cadiz, Puerto de Santa Maria and Rota. The American Military is getting ready to bring 3500 more Sailors and all the support jobs that go with that to Rota Spain. There has been an American presence there for so long now that many Americans now consider the local people part of there family also. 

The reason, Missile Shield, is bound to cause activist to take up the cause locally but also it is hard to be against something that will cause the local economy to boom in certain areas. 

Anyone whe lives in this area of Andalucia that can shed some light on the Spanish local feeling about what is going to happen there?


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

lbernal said:


> As I sit here in Miami, Florida I wonder what the talk is among the locals in Cadiz, Puerto de Santa Maria and Rota. The American Military is getting ready to bring 3500 more Sailors and all the support jobs that go with that to Rota Spain. There has been an American presence there for so long now that many Americans now consider the local people part of there family also.
> 
> The reason, Missile Shield, is bound to cause activist to take up the cause locally but also it is hard to be against something that will cause the local economy to boom in certain areas.
> 
> Anyone whe lives in this area of Andalucia that can shed some light on the Spanish local feeling about what is going to happen there?


Sadly don't live in that neck of the woods but I wish they would bring in more americans for other things… like customer services jobs! I haev had the pleasure today in dealing with two american companies by telephone and after dealing with the Spanish (and even the Brits i might add) it was like a breathe of fresh air… nothing too much trouble, problems solved… we like americans…  (germans are pretty dam good for service too)… funny really I was thinking about the EU today…

Germany - Always get it right 1st time, excellent service, do what they say FAST - Almost NO crises

UK - Get it right 2nd time, usually repair problems, but takes a bit of running around to get what you want - In Crises

Spain - Everyone does their job wrong, simple tasks take weeks, mistakes happen every day - HUGE Crises!

Sorry Woffling! :focus: We love Americans!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

steve_in_spain said:


> Sadly don't live in that neck of the woods but I wish they would bring in more americans for other things… like customer services jobs! I haev had the pleasure today in dealing with two american companies by telephone and after dealing with the Spanish (and even the Brits i might add) it was like a breathe of fresh air… nothing too much trouble, problems solved… we like americans…  (germans are pretty dam good for service too)… funny really I was thinking about the EU today…
> 
> Germany - Always get it right 1st time, excellent service, do what they say FAST - Almost NO crises
> 
> ...


I don't - my suegra is one. My experience of American customer service is all ''Well, Hi, how are you today? - Now you have a nice day, y'hear. Glad to have been of service'' and no bl**dy service.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> I don't - my suegra is one. My experience of American customer service is all ''Well, Hi, how are you today? - Now you have a nice day, y'hear. Glad to have been of service'' and no bl**dy service.


Strange how experiences vary… today was bliss… and i used to have a business importing from the US to the UK and always had amazing service… even got invited to the gaffers place for a holiday!

Bet you love your suegra really!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Hats off to the Americans, they have customer service down to a fine art in my experience of dealing with some in the UK and when I lived in the States.

How big will the PX/BX be at the new base  Used to get some real bargains at them (when I could access via American chums). Last time(s) was between 2007-2010 when a friend was based in the UK, Makers Mark/Wild Turkey/Old Grand dad €20 a litre and Marlboro €17 a carton (was smoking still then), steak was cheap, good beer was cheap...happy days.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

lbernal said:


> As I sit here in Miami, Florida I wonder what the talk is among the locals in Cadiz, Puerto de Santa Maria and Rota. The American Military is getting ready to bring 3500 more Sailors and all the support jobs that go with that to Rota Spain. There has been an American presence there for so long now that many Americans now consider the local people part of there family also.
> 
> The reason, Missile Shield, is bound to cause activist to take up the cause locally but also it is hard to be against something that will cause the local economy to boom in certain areas.
> 
> Anyone whe lives in this area of Andalucia that can shed some light on the Spanish local feeling about what is going to happen there?


Personally I am utterly disgusted about this. I believe the public opion is just that, disgust. Even economic misery in the area cannot justify it. 
NOthing against the americans though. If it was apple or other american brand that brings knowledge, the much admired american innovation, and real econmic boom to the area then they'd be most welcome. But as usual, is weaponery and disgusting warmongers. Welcomeback Mr. Marshall.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> Personally I am utterly disgusted about this. I believe the public opion is just that, disgust. Even economic misery in the area cannot justify it.
> NOthing against the americans though. If it was apple or other american brand that brings knowledge, the much admired american innovation, and real econmic boom to the area then they'd be most welcome. But as usual, is weaponery and disgusting warmongers. Welcomeback Mr. Marshall.


Sorry to pee in your pot but it was the Brits who invented the digital computer, the affordable desktop and the internet - it was the yanks who copied and developed the ideas in an attempt to control them...


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Fine, Baldi, if they steal and develope good ideas is because they have a system that encourages just that, If only that sytem was put in place in here things would be a little brighter

IT is undeniable that americans can be admired for pursuing innovative thinking and scientific research, just as they can be destested for many other things. But the fact is that they are not in Ronda to make Spain a favour , boost the local economy or teach anyone the principles of their custoumer service (which may I add, in my experience its wonderful for as long as they can squeeze some dollars out of your pocket) , are they?.


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## lbernal (Oct 6, 2011)

Actually the base is in Rota, NAVSTA Rota (in Cadiz area) has been in use since 1953, there are and have been at least about 4,000 Americans in Rota, including military, civilians, and their families. NATO'S Missile Shield defence system will bring an additional 3500 people to the area.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lbernal said:


> Actually the base is in Rota, NAVSTA Rota (in Cadiz area) has been in use since 1953, there are and have been at least about 4,000 Americans in Rota, including military, civilians, and their families. NATO'S Missile Shield defence system will bring an additional 3500 people to the area.


sonrisa is Spanish - maybe her reaction IS what the local Spanish feel?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> sonrisa is Spanish - maybe her reaction IS what the local Spanish feel?


Quite! It is not about doing Spain or anybody else a favour other than themselves, as usual. However, it would not surprise me to find that it somehow extends to include their Israeli friends!


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> sonrisa is Spanish - maybe her reaction IS what the local Spanish feel?


Yes, but Sonrisa incorrectly referred to "Ronda" and Ibernal was reiterating that the location is Rota.



Sonrisa said:


> But the fact is that they are not in Ronda to make Spain a favour


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

lbernal said:


> Actually the base is in Rota, NAVSTA Rota (in Cadiz area) has been in use since 1953, there are and have been at least about 4,000 Americans in Rota, including military, civilians, and their families. NATO'S Missile Shield defence system will bring an additional 3500 people to the area.


I am sorry, my bad, I typed Ronda by mistake. Rota. I knnow the americanss have been there since Franco, but it was previously agreed a few years ago that american military presence in Rota was going to leave and now here we go, 3500 more coming, whaever happen to that agreement.
Missile shield defence system. Please. 

As for the locals, naturally some are happy that their business will have fresh clients, same welcome mr. marshall attitude, but then I guess as Bobbob has suggested, ciggies and alcohol will sell cheaper amonst themselves in the base and the local bars will be begging for customers.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

lots of locals will be happy to take the $$$$$'$


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry to pee in your pot but it was the Brits who invented the digital computer, the affordable desktop and the internet - it was the yanks who copied and developed the ideas in an attempt to control them...


Sorry to pee in your pot baldilocks, but the Digital Computer was first built by a German Konrad Zuse some may argue that it was Turing, although he did have a significant role in the progression Theory of Computing he can not be considered the inventor.

The first affordable Desktop was the Altair in Albuquerque, NM, but can be argued to be Steve Jobs Apple.

ARPANET was a British precursor to the Internet, but has virtually no relation to modern day Internet technology. TCP/IP was a creation of many companies in many companies which can be credited to the UN and WHO for bringing many nations together to create a global standard.

So as usual the Brits try to claim credit for the inventions of others. Britain did for a time prove to be a world leader during the Industrial Revolution, mainly financed by its global terrorism and theft, many of the of the great inventors were only claimed as british because the were from sovereign nations which came under the British realm of influence. 

so once again your obsession with all things British is completely wrong


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I'd put Tandy in with very early affordable computers along with the BBC / Acorn models. Anyone here use any of them? I had a TRS 80 and several BBC....blooming expensive toys at the time.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I live in Cadiz Province about 50 miles from Rota. Most of the locals there are really excited about the prospect. The Province has one of the highest unemployment rates in Spain (32%), car plants and other industries are still closing, and the fishing industry is on its knees because of quotas. They will welcome _anything_ that brings prosperity to the area.

There will be about 300 new jobs on the base but it will be a boost to the wider economy because lots of Americans leave the base to go to nearby resorts and restaurants.

There is political opposition, but there always has been. Most of the opponents are not from the area.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mayotom said:


> Sorry to pee in your pot baldilocks, but the Digital Computer was first built by a German Konrad Zuse some may argue that it was Turing, although he did have a significant role in the progression Theory of Computing he can not be considered the inventor.
> 
> The first affordable Desktop was the Altair in Albuquerque, NM, but can be argued to be Steve Jobs Apple.
> 
> ...


I have absolutely no obssesion with all things British, but a group of Spaniards informed me last week that internet was invented by a Brit, Tim Berners Lee
Tim Berners-Lee
A graduate of Oxford University, Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web, an internet-based hypermedia initiative for global information sharing while at CERN, the European Particle Physics Laboratory, in 1989. He wrote the first web client and server in 1990. His specifications of URIs, HTTP and HTML were refined as Web technology spread.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

mayotom said:


> Britain did for a time prove to be a world leader during the Industrial Revolution, mainly financed by its global terrorism and theft, many of the of the great inventors were only claimed as british because the were from sovereign nations which came under the British realm of influence.


Yes another invention the Americans nicked off the Brits, still they have taken the concept to unimaginable refinement.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2012)

mayotom said:


> Sorry to pee in your pot baldilocks, but the Digital Computer was first built by a German Konrad Zuse some may argue that it was Turing, although he did have a significant role in the progression Theory of Computing he can not be considered the inventor.
> 
> The first affordable Desktop was the Altair in Albuquerque, NM, but can be argued to be Steve Jobs Apple.
> 
> ...


Well, if you get all ranty (unnecessarily) and rely upon Wikipedia for facts, then you deserve to be hoisted by your own petard...

Arpanet was an American invention, coming out of the DARPA group (funded by the US DoD), which was investigating methods of linking military, commercial and scientific establishments/groups, allowing for high levels of redundancy following some post-apocalyptic scenario.

TCP/IP - transmission control protocol/internet protocol was born in the labs of DARPA and it`s partners, such as the New York AT&T Labs, where so many amazing stuff was created. The first official RFC (RCF 674 to be pedantic) was in 1973, although aspects of TCP/IP where in use previously under different incarnations. Giving credit to the UN and WHO is, at best, arse water and has no validity whatsoever.

There were many computers that graced the desktop before the Altair. My first computer was an Altair, constructed from parts shipped from Radio Shack in the US, so I know intimately what was around at time. As for the Apple angle - nonsense. There were many machines available by the time that came out. It was a good machine and is an iconic reminder of the 70`s.

As for Zuse, a damn clever ******, but certainly _not _the inventor of a digital computer. It wasn`t until those clever chaps created the microprocessors, did things become digital, around 1968. Prior to that, things where reliant upon valve technology or used simple logic circuits reliant upon simple NOR gates (three!). Zuse, like Turing, built electro-mechanical devices.

Think you might want to get your aim a bit better before you attempt to piss in someone else`s pot. You`ve made a right mess on the floor.






(For Pesky)
Tim Berner-Lee invented the markup or scripting language that allowed academics at CERN to publish technical data, in a common format, on the internal LAN or to a wider audience. This would later form the standard for what we know as HyperText Markup language or HTML. This was the birth of the World Wide Web - in other words a pretty and funky graphical view replacing what what had previously being a character laden world. Certainly made the Internet accessible to the great unwashed, but not the invention of the Internet by any definition.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Yossa said:


> (For Pesky)
> Tim Berner-Lee invented the markup or scripting language that allowed academics at CERN to publish technical data, in a common format, on the internal LAN or to a wider audience. This would later form the standard for what we know as HyperText Markup language or HTML. This was the birth of the World Wide Web - in other words a pretty and funky graphical view replacing what what had previously being a character laden world. Certainly made the Internet accessible to the great unwashed, but not the invention of the Internet by any definition.


Fair enough.
It is a little naive I feel to credit any one person, or even organisation, with the invention of internet, the cure for cancer, the big bang...


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I live in Cadiz Province about 50 miles from Rota. Most of the locals there are really excited about the prospect. The Province has one of the highest unemployment rates in Spain (32%), car plants and other industries are still closing, and the fishing industry is on its knees because of quotas. They will welcome _anything_ that brings prosperity to the area.
> 
> There will be about 300 new jobs on the base but it will be a boost to the wider economy because lots of Americans leave the base to go to nearby resorts and restaurants.
> 
> There is political opposition, but there always has been. Most of the opponents are not from the area.


Yes I'm sure local Mr. Taxidriver, Mr. waiter Mrs. landlady and Miss  are happy with the prospect. As usual history repeats itself and the spaniards in periods of crisis pull down their trousers instead of finding real long term solutions to boost prosperity and job creation.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mayotom said:


> Sorry to pee in your pot baldilocks, but the Digital Computer was first built by a German Konrad Zuse some may argue that it was Turing, although he did have a significant role in the progression Theory of Computing he can not be considered the inventor.
> 
> The first affordable Desktop was the Altair in Albuquerque, NM, but can be argued to be Steve Jobs Apple.
> 
> ...


You have your illusions, I'll stick with mine. My first affordable desktop was the Sinclair ZX80 and taught me a lot about programming and computers in general. The machine invented by Turing WAS digital and used valves because the transistor had not at that time been invented.

Where on earth you get the idea of global terrorism and theft from is in your imagination. Many of the countries that formed the British Empire asked to join because the Brits would protect them from other marauders (French, Portuguese, Spanish - the Americans hadn't at that point joined in)!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> Yes I'm sure local Mr. Taxidriver, Mr. waiter Mrs. landlady and Miss  are happy with the prospect. As usual history repeats itself and the spaniards in periods of crisis pull down their trousers instead of finding real long term solutions to boost prosperity and job creation.


So while they wait for these long term solutions, they should live on food parcels from Caritas?

As a former campaigner against American Cruise missiles in the UK I'm not comfortable with a huge military base on my doorstep either. This missile shield is an obscene waste of money. But the OP question was what locals think about the expansion of Rota, not what I think.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> Yes I'm sure local Mr. Taxidriver, Mr. waiter Mrs. landlady and Miss  are happy with the prospect. As usual history repeats itself and the spaniards in periods of crisis pull down their trousers instead of finding real long term solutions to boost prosperity and job creation.


For what it's worth I think Spanish voters across the country should get a chance to say yes or no to this. It might be good for the local area but is this what the Spanish people want. Was this on the agenda during the last election!
In my view, any countries people should have the option of a referendum for such an important politicly and physical investment for their future!!

On the other subjects spinning off a little...; There might be a slightly wavy line on who invented what and when (sometimes!) But I think all that talk is missing the point a little IMHO.
What's important is when an inventor comes up with a great idea, his or her countries/government backs it! But often this is not the case.
I'm sure many others on here know their history much better than I and could list many inventions not backed by the UK governments over the years..
Jet engine inventor Frank Whittle comes to mind..


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Muddy said:


> For what it's worth I think Spanish voters across the country should get a chance to say yes or no to this. It might be good for the local area but is this what the Spanish people want. Was this on the agenda during the last election!
> In my view, any countries people should have the option of a referendum for such an important politicly and physical investment for their future!!


What would you have them vote on? All parties are in agreement. The deal was signed by Zapatero last year.

Rota is actually a Spanish naval base, shared by NATO and the US Navy. The US don't pay any rent to Spain because they are ostensibly supporting this country's defense capabilities. The anti-missile shield, based on four warships deployed in the Mediterranean, is intended to protect Europe against nuclear attack from places like Iran (which doesn't look so daft right now). It is being paid for by the US in the first instance.

Interestingly there is a lot of opposition to the missile shield in the US; some Americans think their dollars should be spent protecting their own country rather than Europe.
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/10/05/navy-to-forward-deploy-bmd-ships-in-spain/


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> What would you have them vote on? All parties are in agreement. The deal was signed by Zapatero last year.
> 
> Rota is actually a Spanish naval base, shared by NATO and the US Navy. The US don't pay any rent to Spain because they are ostensibly supporting this country's defense capabilities. The anti-missile shield, based on four warships deployed in the Mediterranean, is intended to protect Europe against nuclear attack from places like Iran (which doesn't look so daft right now). It is being paid for by the US in the first instance.
> 
> ...



So ydo ou think this Missile shield thing is actually protecting us? Against who? Who would want to attack Spain right now, we only have olive oil and I doubt it is spanish anymore? If anything isn't this is giving the troubled Persian region and their bully friends reasons to attack Spain?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> So ydo ou think this Missile shield thing is actually protecting us? Against who? Who would want to attack Spain right now, we only have olive oil and I doubt it is spanish anymore? If anything isn't this is giving the troubled Persian region and their bully friends reasons to attack Spain?


No, I don't. As I said in my previous post I think it's a hideous waste of money. But it is the argument being used by politicians to justify it to the electorate (along with a handful of new jobs).

Obviously nobody would want to attack Spain but if Israel and Iran start nuking each other God knows where it will end ... WW3 probably, and we'll all have to take sides.

On that cheery note, I'm off to make some seafood albondigas.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

US thinking is, as far as I understand it, twofold
1. If they decide to go in, the bases in Spain and elsewhere provide build-up points nearer the possible theatres of war.
2. If the potential enemy make a first attack against the pseudo US strong-points in Europe, they may well expend themselves to the point of giving the US an advantage at no collateral risk to US soil.

Bear in mind that it was the last PP government that supported Dubya in his Iraq and Afghanistan wars.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO..we are just trying to figure out a way to protect Europe without having the HUGE bases and numbers of personnel that are there now. Mr. Obama just announced recently bringing home 80k plus from Europe. We have 800+ foreign bases now, hopefully in the future we just need drones and missiles.

As for the locals, my understanding is that most like our culture especially our music. Well that's what they told us at every opportunity, which is nice because I thought everyone hated us...things we learn through travel.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> What would you have them vote on? All parties are in agreement. The deal was signed by Zapatero last year.
> 
> Rota is actually a Spanish naval base, shared by NATO and the US Navy. The US don't pay any rent to Spain because they are ostensibly supporting this country's defense capabilities. The anti-missile shield, based on four warships deployed in the Mediterranean, is intended to protect Europe against nuclear attack from places like Iran (which doesn't look so daft right now). It is being paid for by the US in the first instance.
> 
> ...


Well I don't know anything of Spain's party politics! So I'll shut up on this one! I'm a bit surprised all parties/people voted it through tho!

On the face of it perhaps it makes sense to have a shield! but it's much more likely a dirty bomb would be used if this shield is in place now. So unless the good old fashioned way of checking anything and everything isn't done to a very high standard then they might as well not have bothered with the high tech solution!

As far as this shield goes. I always assumed it was protecting the US anyway! The nearer it is to what the perceived threat the better etc! of course that will have already shifted from its inception perhaps!


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

folklore said:


> Well that's what they told us at every opportunity,


"Told"? Past tense? And Folklore's location is now "In transit back to Colombia"??? :confused2:
:focus:


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2012)

Brangus said:


> "Told"? Past tense? And Folklore's location is now "In transit back to Colombia"??? :confused2:
> :focus:


Fixed my location, back home, cut the trip from 3 months to 1 month. Came to Spain to early, i.e. to cool for us...lesson learned.

didn't get your point on the 'told', if it's a grammar issue, I grew up in the deep south.


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