# This is Great Healthcare???



## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

Before we moved to Canada (BC) we looked at info on here once in a while, and were lead to believe that all of Canada had great, universal free healthcare. I have decided that people need to know that not everything you read on here is true. We moved to BC 19 months ago, niether of our jobs have paid healthcare, so we have to pay the BC medical insurance payments ourselves, currently $109 a month for the two of us, not that much, but deffinately not FREE, and it still doesn't fully cover prescriptions costs, and doesn't cover things like physio, nor does it cover dental. But back to the reason for this posting, on August 12th 2010, my wife went to see her doctor because she had been having bad pains in her left leg, first he ordered an xray, the wait for that was only a few hours, then a few days later he got the results, and ordered an MRI, but she had to wait 18 weeks for that, she finally had it on December 17th, then on Dec 23rd her doctor called and said she needed to see a specialist, that took another 5 months, but finally yesterday she saw him, and he says she needs to have her viens stripped and will put her on the waiting list. He expects that wait to be approximately 2 years for BC medical insurance covered surgery, If you haven't done the math, it took 9 months for my wife to find out she will have to wait another 2 years for surgery. However, if we want to pay approx $3500 ourselves and bypass BC medical insurance covered surgery, the wait might only be a couple of months. 
So much for Great, Free Healthcare.


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

dcraig said:


> Before we moved to Canada (BC) we looked at info on here once in a while, and were lead to believe that all of Canada had great, universal free healthcare. I have decided that people need to know that not everything you read on here is true. We moved to BC 19 months ago, niether of our jobs have paid healthcare, so we have to pay the BC medical insurance payments ourselves, currently $109 a month for the two of us, not that much, but deffinately not FREE, and it still doesn't fully cover prescriptions costs, and doesn't cover things like physio, nor does it cover dental. But back to the reason for this posting, on August 12th 2010, my wife went to see her doctor because she had been having bad pains in her left leg, first he ordered an xray, the wait for that was only a few hours, then a few days later he got the results, and ordered an MRI, but she had to wait 18 weeks for that, she finally had it on December 17th, then on Dec 23rd her doctor called and said she needed to see a specialist, that took another 5 months, but finally yesterday she saw him, and he says she needs to have her viens stripped and will put her on the waiting list. He expects that wait to be approximately 2 years for BC medical insurance covered surgery, If you haven't done the math, it took 9 months for my wife to find out she will have to wait another 2 years for surgery. However, if we want to pay approx $3500 ourselves and bypass BC medical insurance covered surgery, the wait might only be a couple of months.
> So much for Great, Free Healthcare.


And welcome to BC, but just wait, things will get worse, before they get better, over 800 nurses have been laid off throughout BC recently, and the gov't is still trying to privatise hospitals.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

The road to privatisation=the road to ruin as far as health care goes. We will have to re-think our move to cda if this is the real deal - is it just BC or wlsewhere e.g. Ontario too?


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

gbu said:


> The road to privatisation=the road to ruin as far as health care goes. We will have to re-think our move to cda if this is the real deal - is it just BC or wlsewhere e.g. Ontario too?


One shouldn't confuse privatization of healthcare in BC with private, for profit, U.S style healthcare. In BC, privitization means contracting out to private companies, services like food, cleaning, maintenance etc. So current employees get laid off, and these companies come in and pay only 1/2 to 3/4 of the wages. And these new companies don't always hire the ones who were just laid off. So a job that was paying $18 an hour, is now paying $9-$12. Can you imagine having a mortgage and then suddenly having your income reduced by $12,000 to $18,000 a year. Google "cleaning at Nanaimo hospital" to see what can happen when private companies are trying to save money. And also, the BC gov't, about 10 years ago, tore up a contract with hospital employees and cut their wages by about $5000 a year. If a gov't can just tear up a contract, what else can they do and get away with. :eek2:


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## INFAMOUS (Apr 19, 2011)

I am from Ontario Canada and all I can say is... don't believe what you hear in terms of how "great our free health care is" I have lived in the US, Australia, Canada, Dubai, and Canada is the worst of them all.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

Very worrying- one of the attractions of Canada is the famous health care system- is the all a con? I've applied FSW route- should I pull out hmmm


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

gbu said:


> Very worrying- one of the attractions of Canada is the famous health care system- is the all a con? I've applied FSW route- should I pull out hmmm


There are lots of people in Canada, including a few on here, who will swear up and down that Canada's healthcare system is the best in the world, and they are entitled to their opinion. But when they say that, you have to ask, where do they live, what age group are they in, and what type of insurance do they have and who pays for it. And also, have they ever experienced a 5-6 month wait to see a specialist, or to have a certain test, or a year or two wait for certain surgery, if they haven't, obviously they won't be putting down the healthcare system. If they don't personally pay for medical insurance, they probably won't critisize it as much as someone who does. If they are an expat, it would also be hypocrytical to say bad things about the country they chose to come to. Medical care in the U.S may be expensive if you don't have in insurance, but when a U.S city of 20,000 has more and better equipment than a Canadian city of 200,000, which means wait times of 2-3 days instead of 5-6 months for Catscans, MRI's etc, you tell me which is the better system. A six month wait for a diagnoses can be the difference between life and death.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

Another interesting fact, this morning I was talking to an elderly man from down the street, he is retired and 79 years old. We got talking about healthcare costs, and he told me that if even though he has BC medical insurance, which he doesn't pay for because he is considered low income , he still has to pay a portion of his prescription costs. Last year that was almost $900. His monthly pension is $1015. Is this what we have to look forward to when we get older?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

dcraig said:


> Another interesting fact, this morning I was talking to an elderly man from down the street, he is retired and 79 years old. We got talking about healthcare costs, and he told me that if even though he has BC medical insurance, which he doesn't pay for because he is considered low income , he still has to pay a portion of his prescription costs. Last year that was almost $900. His monthly pension is $1015. Is this what we have to look forward to when we get older?


I would have thought that it was not too expensive...$75 pm ( from over $1000 pm) for prescription medications... do not forget medicines are very expensive! At least he can get what he needs in Canada. May I ask something about hospital costs in Canada.... do you pay in full or does it depend on income, age , etc?

I contribute to a private medical aid in SA, in the UK everything was covered by the NHS but I did pay quite a considerable amount into NI .

Thanks


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

Johanna said:


> I would have thought that it was not too expensive...$75 pm ( from over $1000 pm) for prescription medications... do not forget medicines are very expensive! At least he can get what he needs in Canada. May I ask something about hospital costs in Canada.... do you pay in full or does it depend on income, age , etc?
> 
> I contribute to a private medical aid in SA, in the UK everything was covered by the NHS but I did pay quite a considerable amount into NI .
> 
> Thanks


Granted, $75 a month doesn't seem like much, but when you are on a limited income, own a house, car etc and have all sorts of other expenses, it doesn't leave much. My reason for posting was because so many people on here say Canada has FREE healthcare, which is very misleading. As for hospitals, if you have insurance you are covered while you are in, but I read something on here a while back about a German tourist who had a hospital bill of $24,000 dollars because they got hurt while in BC and didn't have insurance.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

dcraig said:


> Granted, $75 a month doesn't seem like much, but when you are on a limited income, own a house, car etc and have all sorts of other expenses, it doesn't leave much. My reason for posting was because so many people on here say Canada has FREE healthcare, which is very misleading. As for hospitals, if you have insurance you are covered while you are in, but I read something on here a while back about a German tourist who had a hospital bill of $24,000 dollars because they got hurt while in BC and didn't have insurance.


Thanks for the reply. I agree, it seems like a lot when one is on a limited income, but at least he can get the medication he needs.
I pity the German tourist, suppose that is why we are all told to take out medical insurance before we travel!

Hope your wife's problem will be sorted properly, at least she will receive first world treatment!


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

Johanna said:


> Thanks for the reply. I agree, it seems like a lot when one is on a limited income, but at least he can get the medication he needs.
> I pity the German tourist, suppose that is why we are all told to take out medical insurance before we travel!
> 
> Hope your wife's problem will be sorted properly, at least she will receive first world treatment!


"First world Treatment" is that what you call waiting 9 months just to find out you will have to wait another 2 years for the surgery?. That will be almost 3 years from her first doctors visit.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

dcraig said:


> "First world Treatment" is that what you call waiting 9 months just to find out you will have to wait another 2 years for the surgery?. That will be almost 3 years from her first doctors visit.


That too is true, I went to the gp last week, had x-rays done and interpreted on the same day, now have an appointment at a specialised clinic on the 1st of June, but saying that, we do pay a huge amount into a private medical aid.


Gosh, waiting three years is almost like the NHS!


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## petecan (Jul 29, 2010)

while visiting boston mass last year my daughter developed an abcess where her wisdom tooth was removed. we went to an after hrs medical clinic where she was prescribed anti biotics, we were in with the doctor at most 5 minutes. the bill was $224. back in ontario we submitted a claim to ohip to reimburse us for the american doctors visit, we were reimbursed $42. american visit $224 vs an ontario visit $42, you do the math..........


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

petecan said:


> while visiting boston mass last year my daughter developed an abcess where her wisdom tooth was removed. we went to an after hrs medical clinic where she was prescribed anti biotics, we were in with the doctor at most 5 minutes. the bill was $224. back in ontario we submitted a claim to ohip to reimburse us for the american doctors visit, we were reimbursed $42. american visit $224 vs an ontario visit $42, you do the math..........


Whats that got to do with wait times in BC?, which is what the original post was about, and remember, BC healthcare system is not the same as Ontario, and are you crazy going to the states without medical insurance, you are lucky it wasn't something more serious like a broken limb or worse.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

*Not Impressed*

A friends niece has just been told that she will have about a 6 week wait to have an MRI, lets hope those pains in her lower torso aren't anything serious that needs attention sooner than later. But then, the wait could be longer, after all, this is BC, I guess she should be happy its only a 6 week wait.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

dcraig said:


> A friends niece has just been told that she will have about a 6 week wait to have an MRI, lets hope those pains in her lower torso aren't anything serious that needs attention sooner than later. But then, the wait could be longer, after all, this is BC, I guess she should be happy its only a 6 week wait.


I have an uncle who is a Canadian expat who for the last 9 years has been living in Manzanillo Mexico (population about 130,000) , he had to have an MRI last month, and he only had to wait 5 days from the doctor visit to when he had the MRI, and that included a weekend. Luckily it was something minor and all is well, I hope your friends niece is as lucky, it must be killing them not knowing and having to wait so long. BC may not be a 3rd world country, but when it comes to somethings medical it makes you wonder where the governments priorities are. Just another reason we are leaving as soon as our pensions kick in in a few years.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

gringotim said:


> I have an uncle who is a Canadian expat who for the last 9 years has been living in Manzanillo Mexico (population about 130,000) , he had to have an MRI last month, and he only had to wait 5 days from the doctor visit to when he had the MRI, and that included a weekend. Luckily it was something minor and all is well, I hope your friends niece is as lucky, it must be killing them not knowing and having to wait so long. BC may not be a 3rd world country, but when it comes to somethings medical it makes you wonder where the governments priorities are. Just another reason we are leaving as soon as our pensions kick in in a few years.


I can't believe the number of Canadians I hear about retiring to Mexico, I see from your previous post that is where you are going aswell. The previous owners of the house we just bought have moved there, and several coworkers have friends or relatives living there, I bet reaching that magic 65 never looked better, but I can imagine how the time must just be dragging on. 
I have along way to go, but something to look forward to.:clap2:


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

dcraig said:


> I can't believe the number of Canadians I hear about retiring to Mexico, I see from your previous post that is where you are going aswell. The previous owners of the house we just bought have moved there, and several coworkers have friends or relatives living there, I bet reaching that magic 65 never looked better, but I can imagine how the time must just be dragging on. I have along way to go, but something to look forward to.:clap2:


You're making me older than I am., My wife and I are only 52, but we can retire in 2 years when we are 54, thanks to a complicated union pension thing, years worked plus your age must equal 90, but because of unused sick days and 45 vacation days a year, I can work them in with my regular days off and will be able to quit about 6 months before the official date, but ya, the time is just dragging, gonna be the longest 2 years of my life.:cheer2:


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

gringotim said:


> You're making me older than I am., My wife and I are only 52, but we can retire in 2 years when we are 54, thanks to a complicated union pension thing, years worked plus your age must equal 90, but because of unused sick days and 45 vacation days a year, I can work them in with my regular days off and will be able to quit about 6 months before the official date, but ya, the time is just dragging, gonna be the longest 2 years of my life.:cheer2:


Sorry Mate, I forgot you had mentioned your age in the other post, I just automatically think retirement =65, but I have found that in Canada, its not always the case, especially with some union jobs. The previous owners of our house worked in a pulp mill and she was a nurse, and they just retired to Lake Chapala Mexico, he is only 56 and she is 55. I think I'll put Mexico on my list for when I retire, by then I should be tired of the wet winters, short summers, high taxes, high cost of living, and problems with the health system in BC. But my job with my inlaws business will keep us here for now. Oh well, we have a 2 week vacation coming up in October.lane:


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

petecan said:


> while visiting boston mass last year my daughter developed an abcess where her wisdom tooth was removed. we went to an after hrs medical clinic where she was prescribed anti biotics, we were in with the doctor at most 5 minutes. the bill was $224. back in ontario we submitted a claim to ohip to reimburse us for the american doctors visit, we were reimbursed $42. american visit $224 vs an ontario visit $42, you do the math..........


You got ripped off big time. The 24 hour Urgent Care Clinics where I live in Southern California cost no more than $65 with no insurance.

I have a US Medicare Advantage Plan. I don't pay any premiums, there are NO deductibles and all Doctors, Specialists, are free as well Physical therapy, gym membership and prescription drug coverage. It is one of many Medicare Advantage Plans offered by insurance companies to people 65+. My retirement income is $10,000 /mo so it isn't a low income thingee. My sister lives in BC and is a senior like me. We have compared our relative health care and there is no way that I would want what she has compared to mine.


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## jeff66 (Aug 19, 2009)

When we were preparing to move here... I never read anywhere that Canada had free fantastic health care. It is well documented how the system works here.

In Ontario, it is very hard to get a family doctor, some people have been waiting for over 7 years!

We have a very nice doctor, we are lucky. There are some right old quacks out there, they happily diagnose you with all sorts, then they get a payback on the drugs they dish out.

The walk ins were very good indeed.

So... 1 broken leg, 1 broken rib, Cholesterol tests, 1 very nasty arm muscle problem = $25. And no monthly payment here in Ontario. The $25 was for an optional glass fibre leg cast and a pair of aluminium crutches.

Everything you need to know is out there on the internet regarding immigration to Canada. Don't take what other people say as true.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

jeff66 said:


> When we were preparing to move here... I never read anywhere that Canada had free fantastic health care. It is well documented how the system works here.
> 
> In Ontario, it is very hard to get a family doctor, some people have been waiting for over 7 years!
> 
> ...


It was on this expatforum where I have read statements like, Canada has free healthcare, great healthcare, and universal healthcare, maybe you didn't read the same postings I had read, but as i know now, the people posting those statements were reffering to either Ontario or Alberta, not BC, but just generalized their statements to sound like they meant the whole country, but when you are from another country and you hear someone say, Canada has free, universal healthcare, it makes you think it applies to the whole country. I won't mention the names of those who said, and still say things like that, but they know who they are, and for the sake of others thinking of coming here, I wish they would stop doing it. We were coming to BC anyways, and the healthcare issue wouldn't have stopped us, 
Up until about 5-6 months ago, I don't recall reading anything on here about the costs or problems with healthcare in BC., but now we are living it first hand. Got a prescription yesterday, $33 for 14 pills, and thats with BC Medical insurance.
And my original post was about healthcare problems in BC, why do people keep bringing up Ontario? :confused2:


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## jeff66 (Aug 19, 2009)

Well, I bought up Ontario because that is where we moved to. And I guess others watching the thread will see what is really the truth about health care in Canada.

But everyone needs to do their homework on all matters. And remember provinces are all slightly different in some ways.

Car insurance is totally different in BC and Ontario, I think licensing laws are as well.

Luckily, my immigration lawyer knew the answers to all my questions, about all the provinces!

Jeff


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## Paul the chippie (Jun 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear about all the trouble you had with the healthcare in BC. 
I just wanted to ask a quick question as myself and my girlfriend are going to be starting our visa application quite soon as we are hopeing to move to BC and I also have heard about all this so called free health care, basically people saying that it works the same way as the UK's NHS service does.
We've been informed that if we apply for the provincial health card when we arrive thats what entitles us to free health care, well to a certain extent anyway i.e not covering dental, precriptions etc. Is this the same kind of deal you guys have now, have you got this provincial health card?


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## jeff66 (Aug 19, 2009)

Hi Paul.... You can't get the card right away. You need some sort of travel insurance initially. It is either 30 or 90 days. Again do your homework. You will find out what you need. Wow everyone is off to BC! It was not for us, thought it would be, but after 2 weeks there we decided against it!


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

Talked to a guy this morning from Courtenay, he said a friend of his daughter is 2 weeks into an expected 6-7 month wait for an ultra sound. If this is great healthcare, I'd hate to experience bad healthcare.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

dcraig said:


> Talked to a guy this morning from Courtenay, he said a friend of his daughter is 2 weeks into an expected 6-7 month wait for an ultra sound. If this is great healthcare, I'd hate to experience bad healthcare.


That is absolutely unacceptable. I have had 2 ultra sounds done in the last year here in California and didn't have to wait even one day. I went to my doctor in the morning who recommended the ultra sound and I had it that same afternoon. It didn't cost anything. These were not emergency situations but were routine tests.


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

JohnSoCal said:


> That is absolutely unacceptable. I have had 2 ultra sounds done in the last year here in California and didn't have to wait even one day. I went to my doctor in the morning who recommended the ultra sound and I had it that same afternoon. It didn't cost anything. These were not emergency situations but were routine tests.


Yet alot of people still think Canada, especially BC, is the best place to live, :confused2:


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

kimo said:


> Yet alot of people still think Canada, especially BC, is the best place to live, :confused2:


Each person has their own idea of where is the best. For my wife and I, it is California hands down.

I was born ( Victoria ) and raised in BC. My wife and I lived in Vancouver. We have since visited there, the last time was 2 years ago. I am retired and can live just about anywhere we want. Neither my wife nor I would want to live in BC nor anywhere in Canada. We have lived in Mexico, Venezuela, and several states. My wife is a dual US/Mexican citizen and I am fluent in Spanish. I moved to California by myself when I was 19 years old.


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## Canuck2Kiwi (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't know if I should be posting this since someone else was blasted for recounting their Ontario experience rather than a BC one, but here I go anyway. I admit that the system here is far from perfect but it is not nearly as bad as a few of you are making it out to be. Wait times might be a little long in some areas but from personal experience, when it comes to life and death, those wait times are drastically reduced. My mother was diagnosed with cancer 6 years ago and she was given the medical attention she required, free of charge, without having to wait. That included surgery, chemo and a nurse who visited her home everyday to keep her iv clean and administer medication. From what I hear her treatment costs $20,000 a day and she did not pay a cent.

Now that's just one experience. But I would like to hear how this would be treated in other countries.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

Canuck2Kiwi said:


> I don't know if I should be posting this since someone else was blasted for recounting their Ontario experience rather than a BC one, but here I go anyway. I admit that the system here is far from perfect but it is not nearly as bad as a few of you are making it out to be. Wait times might be a little long in some areas but from personal experience, when it comes to life and death, those wait times are drastically reduced. My mother was diagnosed with cancer 6 years ago and she was given the medical attention she required, free of charge, without having to wait. That included surgery, chemo and a nurse who visited her home everyday to keep her iv clean and administer medication. From what I hear her treatment costs $20,000 a day and she did not pay a cent.
> 
> Now that's just one experience. But I would like to hear how this would be treated in other countries.


Don't know if you are refering to me, or KIMO, or someone else when you say someone was blasted for recounting their Ontario experience, but what do you expect, when my original posting was about healthcare waits and costs in BC, NOT Ontario. If people in Ontario are so happy with thier healthcare, why not start thier own thread, instead of coming on this one and saying there is nothing wrong with healthcare in Ontario. I never said there was anything wrong with the Ontario healthcare system, I was making a statement about our experience with the BC system, so people would know that things aren't the same in BC as they are in other parts of Canada, as some people posting on here make it sound. So again I emphasize, BC healthcare system isn't Ontario, I am glad your mother in Ontario had great care, at no cost, but sorry, that has nothing to do with the healthcare problems in BC, and I highly doubt the $20,000 a day figure, thats more than US costs.


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## carlb (Feb 11, 2011)

dcraig said:


> Don't know if you are refering to me, or KIMO, or someone else when you say someone was blasted for recounting their Ontario experience, but what do you expect, when my original posting was about healthcare waits and costs in BC, NOT Ontario. If people in Ontario are so happy with thier healthcare, why not start thier own thread, instead of coming on this one and saying there is nothing wrong with healthcare in Ontario. I never said there was anything wrong with the Ontario healthcare system, I was making a statement about our experience with the BC system, so people would know that things aren't the same in BC as they are in other parts of Canada, as some people posting on here make it sound. So again I emphasize, BC healthcare system isn't Ontario, I am glad your mother in Ontario had great care, at no cost, but sorry, that has nothing to do with the healthcare problems in BC, and I highly doubt the $20,000 a day figure, thats more than US costs.


Wouldn't waste too much time complaining, for some reason on this forum it doesn't do any good, alot people in Ontario don't like to be left out of any discussion, whether it applies to them or not, but you'll learn to save your breath.:tape: And I agree, $20,000 a day seems VERY VERY high, not even U.S high. but what do I know about the Ontario healthcare system?


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

carlb said:


> Wouldn't waste too much time complaining, for some reason on this forum it doesn't do any good, alot people in Ontario don't like to be left out of any discussion, whether it applies to them or not, but you'll learn to save your breath.:tape: And I agree, $20,000 a day seems VERY VERY high, not even U.S high. but what do I know about the Ontario healthcare system?


You're right, the only reason I did respond was because it was my original post in question, but for me I can't see any reason for posting on here again, nothing has changed no matter how much some people try to change things, instead of being specific, people will still generalize their statements to sound like all of Canada is the same, like my husband said, if I said I have nothing but problems with my Ford, someone would come on and say, what do you mean? I don't have any problems with my Honda!. I know most people on here seem to be UK expats or expat wanna be's, whether that has anything to do with or not, I don't know, but I just hope the wanna be's do alot more research about Canada other than on this forum, there is alot of misleading, if not, incorrect info on here. If someone posts some info, make sure you know where they are reffering to, don't assume it applies to everywhere in Canada.:wave::wave:


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

The wait times can be pretty bad in Ontario as well. Perhaps not as bad as BC, but still not very good. My aunt was from Ontario. She had hip replacement surgery but NOT in Ontario. She would have had to wait MORE than 2 years to get it done in Ontario so had it done in Florida.

We are not talking about life and death issues. However, the wait times for an MRI. ultra sound, CAT scans can definitely be life threatening. Hip and knee replacements, though not life threatening, are quality of life issues. Unless one has needed a hip or knee replacement, they cannot appreciate just how painful and debilitating these things can be. Waiting even a month, let alone years is unacceptable.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

Well it has served my family & I well. We have all been treated promptly for things like broken hips, cancer, etc. There are wait lists for things like knee replacements. Obviously the system is under stress, in large part due to aging demographics. However I would not trade it for the US system. That system is fine if you have good insurance or can pay for it. At least in Canada you do get treated even if you are not wealthy or have an employer with good coverage.


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## carlb (Feb 11, 2011)

telcoman said:


> Well it has served my family & I well. We have all been treated promptly for things like broken hips, cancer, etc. There are wait lists for things like knee replacements. Obviously the system is under stress, in large part due to aging demographics. However I would not trade it for the US system. That system is fine if you have good insurance or can pay for it. At least in Canada you do get treated even if you are not wealthy or have an employer with good coverage.


I think you are missing the point, for the most part, peoples complaints aren't with "emergency" situations like "broken" hips, cancer etc, but with the wait times for things like hip, knee replacements etc , MRI's, Catscans etc and seeing specialists, but as has been stated before, those that haven't experienced a 6month, 1 year, 2 year or longer wait, will not say bad things about the BC health system. Its a lack of funding from the gov't, and improper spending that is the main cause of the problems with BC health care system. Why build a new hospital wing if you don't give funding to staff it? Why have 5 supervisors making $90k a year in a dept, that 10 years ago got by with 2 supervisors, even though they have the same number of employees. If you knew as many people as I do who work in the health care field and in other hospital departments, you would know how money is wasted every day on un-necessary things. And there must be somethings you dislike about Canada which is why you also list Mexico as your location.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

I live 5 months a year in Mexico (in an RV). I am well aware of wait times & my wife has experienced it as well. There is always the option in BC of using a private clinic (If you want to pay), so in many ways it has the advantages of both the medicare & US type system.


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## carlb (Feb 11, 2011)

telcoman said:


> I live 5 months a year in Mexico (in an RV). I am well aware of wait times & my wife has experienced it as well. There is always the option in BC of using a private clinic (If you want to pay), so in many ways it has the advantages of both the medicare & US type system.


I hear ya about Mexico, we have a condo in Manzanillo. I find it interesting that you came to Canada from the UK, but now find that for 5 months out of the year you would rather be in Mexico, shhhhh! don't tell Auld Yin.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm retired & don't like winter any more. I stay most of the 5 months in Melaque.


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## mariannesou (May 30, 2011)

The only "good" thing from paying any medical bills here in Ontario (if you can consider it "good"), is that a portion of medical bills and prescriptions, etc., are a tax deduction at the end of the tax year, which will either reduce your taxes or give you a reimbursement. I personally (and I'm in my sixties) have never had to wait too long for a specialist. After 65, prescription costs are greatly reduced. I wish dental costs could be reduced with age.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

telcoman said:


> I live 5 months a year in Mexico (in an RV). I am well aware of wait times & my wife has experienced it as well. There is always the option in BC of using a private clinic (If you want to pay), so in many ways it has the advantages of both the medicare & US type system.


You are missing one important thing. You have to pay in Canada to use a private clinic. I don't pay anything in the US to have these things. They are all covered 100% under my Medicare Advantage plan. I don't pay any premiums, co-pays, nor deductibles. This is not a special program, anybody 65 or over qualifies for it. I am also covered for prescription drugs. I don't have long wait times.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

That is great as long as you are covered. The big problem with the US as I understand it is those who are not covered or who are turned down due a pre-existing condition. I think I'd rather wait and at least know i will get treatment.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

telcoman said:


> That is great as long as you are covered. The big problem with the US as I understand it is those who are not covered or who are turned down due a pre-existing condition. I think I'd rather wait and at least know i will get treatment.


I will always be covered even if my insurance company goes broke as I can just switch to another one. There are no medical questions nor qualifications to have my insurance. I know that I will get treatment and I won't have to wait for it.

My mother moved here from Canada and had virtually the same insurance that I do. She had a back operation at 85 years old that they would not authorize in BC.

You have to realize that 85% of Americans are happy with their health care. Are there some problems, of course there are but all in all it isn't so bad.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

JohnSoCal said:


> You have to realize that 85% of Americans are happy with their health care. Are there some problems, of course there are but all in all it isn't so bad.


I've got an issue with statistics and no links to such statements. Can you please show me where this number was plucked from?


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

Iron Horse said:


> I've got an issue with statistics and no links to such statements. Can you please show me where this number was plucked from?


Here is a link that shows 83% satisafaction. This was prior to Obamacare. I have seen others as high as 87%.

Among OECD Nations, U.S. Lags in Personal Health


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## MandyB (Jan 14, 2010)

Some provinces have free healthcare - like Alberta! So its where you live that determines your health care coverage. Not everything is covered but Canada isn't give it all away like UK! You have to pay personal healthcare if your company doesn't provide & for coverage of 'extras' - look at the fine print. Unemployment isn't free either - unlike UK where you can walk in & get it - Canada has rules whereby you have had to work a certain number of hours before getting any benefit. So what's wrong with that? At least they wont be bankrupt.


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

My wife and I lost our health care (in the US) through our employers 3 years ago due to layoffs and cutbacks. I started my own business as an IT consultant and wanted to get coverage for us. Since my son has a pre-existing condition, we had been denied coverage and were constantly pointed to the "high risk" insurance policies, which we simply could not afford.

Even now, with the "health care reform" (that is in quotes for a damn good reason) we are still looking at $800/month premiums and $5000 deductible. Along with that, we have the privilege of knowing that our insurance industry has been pumping millions into congressional pockets (our premiums that are supposed to be spent on us) to ensure that we do not get the coverage we pay for.

As small business owners, we are just the tip of the iceberg here. No real reform, just getting worse.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

That is the issue. We may have wait lists & things like that here in Canada for non emergency procedures, but you will get treated one way or another and in some provinces you can choose to get it faster at a private clinic if you have the means to pay. Far from perfect, but I would take it over the previous posters situation any day.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

progpen said:


> My wife and I lost our health care (in the US) through our employers 3 years ago due to layoffs and cutbacks. I started my own business as an IT consultant and wanted to get coverage for us. Since my son has a pre-existing condition, we had been denied coverage and were constantly pointed to the "high risk" insurance policies, which we simply could not afford.
> 
> Even now, with the "health care reform" (that is in quotes for a damn good reason) we are still looking at $800/month premiums and $5000 deductible. Along with that, we have the privilege of knowing that our insurance industry has been pumping millions into congressional pockets (our premiums that are supposed to be spent on us) to ensure that we do not get the coverage we pay for.
> 
> As small business owners, we are just the tip of the iceberg here. No real reform, just getting worse.


I also had my own business as a Software consultant. I incorporated and got group medical insurance through my own business. There are no medical questions nor requirements to get the group insurance. The only requirement is that you have at least 2 people in your business. I just made my wife a VP in the business.


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

JohnSoCal said:


> I also had my own business as a Software consultant. I incorporated and got group medical insurance through my own business. There are no medical questions nor requirements to get the group insurance. The only requirement is that you have at least 2 people in your business. I just made my wife a VP in the business.


We have also looked at that, and may still have to do so, but are finding it difficult to accept having to have 2 separate health insurance accounts (2 premiums) for one family. The monthly premiums for 2 are quite a bit more than what we "should" have to pay for an individual account.

Any way you slice it, we get the shaft.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

progpen said:


> We have also looked at that, and may still have to do so, but are finding it difficult to accept having to have 2 separate health insurance accounts (2 premiums) for one family. The monthly premiums for 2 are quite a bit more than what we "should" have to pay for an individual account.
> 
> Any way you slice it, we get the shaft.


Your premiums are 100% deductible for taxes which should save you a pretty good portion of the premium cost.


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

JohnSoCal said:


> Your premiums are 100% deductible for taxes which should save you a pretty good portion of the premium cost.


You are correct, but in our case those are up front costs that are simply out of our range. Once the business has gotten off the ground and we are bringing in enough cash to do that we will.


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

*Not able to deduct*

If you are reporting a loss from your self-employed activity, then you are not eligible to deduct your health insurance costs since this particular deduction is limited by your self-employment income. You can however still claim the health insurance expenses as an itemized medical deduction on your Schedule A.


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

So most small mom and pops (like mine) that will not show a profit for a few years are not able to take advantage of this. The businesses that need this help the most are getting the least.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

dcraig said:


> Another interesting fact, this morning I was talking to an elderly man from down the street, he is retired and 79 years old. We got talking about healthcare costs, and he told me that if even though he has BC medical insurance, which he doesn't pay for because he is considered low income , he still has to pay a portion of his prescription costs. Last year that was almost $900. His monthly pension is $1015. Is this what we have to look forward to when we get older?


Its been along time since i posted on here, got tired of all the missleading information being given out by certain people, and all the dumb questions being posted by others, but decide to return to update this post I made last year. I hadn't seen the old guy out in his yard this year, but yet the lawn was always cut, gardens weeded etc, so just figured I was just going past when he was inside, but last evening I was out for a walk and noticed a lady in her 40's weeding the garden, so I stopped to ask about the old guy, she was his daughter, and said he has pretty much been house bound since last November, as he can barely walk do to hip problems. He has been on a waiting list for a hip replacement since getting the test results last December,, and they don't expect anything to happen until at least October at the earliest, Ya, this is GREAT healthcare!


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## jeff66 (Aug 19, 2009)

well,

If you hate it, you can always return to the UK. It is so much better there, right?


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

*One thing to come of this discussion*

If we all get anything out of this discussion it should be that the health care systems in Canada, UK and US each has good and bad points. It is up to the individual to decide which system sucks less in the ways that mean the most to them.

But talking about the problems with each of the systems is absolutely necessary for those of us who want to make an informed decision.


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## Helrig50 (Sep 7, 2011)

progpen said:


> If we all get anything out of this discussion it should be that the health care systems in Canada, UK and US each has good and bad points. It is up to the individual to decide which system sucks less in the ways that mean the most to them.
> 
> *But talking about the problems with each of the systems is absolutely necessary for those of us who want to make an informed decision*.


It would be useful to let potential migrants know that Canada has a serious, deliberate shortage of GP/Family Doctors (about 5 million Canadians without one), so if that's an issue for you, think about your move. If you have a condition that needs monitoring and following up, like I do, it's quite stressful not having that relationship with your doctor as you work through the ups and downs of your condition. You spend a lot of time waiting for a random doctor in a walk-in clinic, some good, some not-so-good, and it's all very rushed and very tiring explaining the situation to a new doctor every time.

In BC you pay $1300/yr in medical premiums for a couple so I don't find it good value. I'd rather pay more, as I did when we lived in Australia, and have a *health*care system. Canada has a good Accident and Injury Management System. Big difference. The wait times are often unreasonable and can turn minor issues into major ones, not to mention the pain and stress during the wait. This is for the euphemistically named "elective" surgery which makes one think it's for a tummy tuck or nose job. I don't "elect" to have my painful knee fixed or not fixed. I *need* it so that I can maintain my fitness and health, support my family and be a productive member of society. Yes, I won't die from it but a *health*care system shouldn't make that a condition of timely care.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Helrig50 said:


> It would be useful to let potential migrants know that Canada has a serious, deliberate shortage of GP/Family Doctors (about 5 million Canadians without one), so if that's an issue for you, think about your move.


 Or move to a place where doctors like to live? Where I live, there are always Family Doctors who are accepting patients. You can choose if you want to have a male or female doctor. So it all depends on where you live.


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## jawnbc (Apr 28, 2012)

That's true, unless your employer pays on your behalf, which many do. Regardless, the taxation rate in BC is less than in any Australian state: the premium is an annoying way to collect tax revenue, but it's still cheaper than Australia and there's no "gap" for visiting a GP: visits are 100% covered and bulk billed in BC.

Other provinces in Canada that don't have the premiums have slightly higher provincial income taxes. But I agree it's stoopid to do the whole premium thing.

You're right about the GP issue though: my doctor suddenly retired last year due to his own health issues and it's presented a number of challenges. There are lots of GPs taking patients in greater Vancouver...it's just a royal pain.




Helrig50 said:


> In BC you pay $1300/yr in medical premiums for a couple so I don't find it good value. I'd rather pay more, as I did when we lived in Australia, and have a *health*care system. Canada has a good Accident and Injury Management System. Big difference. The wait times are often unreasonable and can turn minor issues into major ones, not to mention the pain and stress during the wait. This is for the euphemistically named "elective" surgery which makes one think it's for a tummy tuck or nose job. I don't "elect" to have my painful knee fixed or not fixed. I *need* it so that I can maintain my fitness and health, support my family and be a productive member of society. Yes, I won't die from it but a *health*care system shouldn't make that a condition of timely care.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

dcraig said:


> It was on this expatforum where I have read statements like, Canada has free healthcare, great healthcare, and universal healthcare, maybe you didn't read the same postings I had read, but as i know now, the people posting those statements were reffering to either Ontario or Alberta, not BC, but just generalized their statements to sound like they meant the whole country, but when you are from another country and you hear someone say, Canada has free, universal healthcare, it makes you think it applies to the whole country. I won't mention the names of those who said, and still say things like that, but they know who they are, and for the sake of others thinking of coming here, I wish they would stop doing it. We were coming to BC anyways, and the healthcare issue wouldn't have stopped us,
> Up until about 5-6 months ago, I don't recall reading anything on here about the costs or problems with healthcare in BC., but now we are living it first hand. Got a prescription yesterday, $33 for 14 pills, and thats with BC Medical insurance.
> And my original post was about healthcare problems in BC, why do people keep bringing up Ontario? :confused2:


 :bump:After staying away from this forum for a year, decided to come back and read some of the more recent posts, or more so, answers and comments posted by people, and I can see nothing has changed since I posted this last year. Oh well, only 2 more months, then its Ecuador! here we come..


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## Trip (Feb 5, 2009)

jeff66 said:


> Hi Paul.... You can't get the card right away. You need some sort of travel insurance initially. It is either 30 or 90 days. Again do your homework. You will find out what you need. Wow everyone is off to BC! It was not for us, thought it would be, but after 2 weeks there we decided against it!


Just to confirm, you get your card 90 days from the day you register.

Tripp


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

dcraig said:


> :bump:After staying away from this forum for a year, decided to come back and read some of the more recent posts, or more so, answers and comments posted by people, and I can see nothing has changed since I posted this last year. Oh well, only 2 more months, then its Ecuador! here we come..


You're preaching to the choir, vague questions, mis-leading, often inacurate answers, but only a few of us willing to comment on it, but on a happier note, I see you have decided to move to Ecuador, lucky you!, what part? we are also moving there, instead of Mexico, but not for another 2 years, we haven't decided which town, but definately the coast, probably north of Salinas, now if I could just figure out how to change my profile from Mexico to Ecuador.


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

*Another horror story*

Been away from here for awhile, just wanted to give another example of healthcare in BC. A friends 54yr old wife suffered a massive heart attack 9 days ago, she was admitted to St Pauls hospital in Vancouver, where she waited for 8 days before they did anything, why, because due to the lack of funding to the hospital from the gov't, they had to wait for a doctor who had spare operating room time allotted to him, installed some stints, discharged the next day. How much did those extra days in hospital cost the gov't? And there was only one working elevator, which meant up to 20-25 minutes wait for those that couldn't do the five flights of stairs, apparently the others haven't worked in weeks or longer. Typical BC hospital situation.


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

*US healthcare system. Get a lawyer.*

My son was born with a cleft lip and palate and has had several surgeries during his 17 years, but still needs a couple more procedures. We have been to many different hospitals and talked to dozens of specialists. We have been to offices that looked more like elite billionaire boutiques than doctor's offices and to hospitals and clinics that looked more like mansions. The doctors have usually been technically good at their jobs, but to the very last have been more concerned about our ability to pay than about the health and wellbeing of our son. I guess if you like being treated like a customer rather than a patient, the US healthcare system is the way to go.


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## jasterpratt (Apr 21, 2013)

Every country has different problems about healthcare. But I guess it's better for you than nothing right?


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## progpen (Aug 16, 2009)

*Better than nothing?*

That isn't necessarily a great argument for accepting a situation where you are paying more than twice what those in other countries pay for the same service.


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