# Looking for advice on 2 weeks' travel in Normandy/Brittany in April/May



## BarbTF

So...long post, sorry, I'm trying to organize my questions but not sure I've done a great job.

I am considering a trip beginning/ending in Brussels and ideally would like to go to Mt. Saint Michel and Bruges, spend a day or two in Lille, Rouen, and not sure where else but I'd really like to see some of Brittany. I haven't been to this part of France before except for a cruise ship stop when I went to Honfleur (and to another town that had a really cool wooden cathedral, although that could have been in Honfleur, I don't think so but it's been ten years) for part of a day.

*My first question is whether I should drive or use public transportation.* Seems like a lot of Brittany, in particular, is quite rural so driving would be preferable for that...but what are the pitfalls of driving other than the expensive gas? Would parking in Rouen and Lille be hugely expensive? I've read about the speed cameras and the advantages of a "fastpass" type card for the toll roads in France but those seem do-able. (I could take the train from Brussels to Bruges/Lille/Rouen and then rent a car in Rouen or Lille for the rest of the trip and return it there and take a train from there to Brussels at the end of the trip. Or I could take the train on to somewhere in Brittany and pick up the rental car there etc. Ideally I'd minimize train travel though due to Covid--a rental car seems safer.)

And am I right that there would be a huge advantage to driving if I want to go into the more rural areas? (I seem to remember reading that public transportation to Mont St. Michel is also problematic, but maybe not and I haven't tried to look it up yet.)

*Also, any suggestions for areas/towns I should really visit or at least drive through* if I'm looking toward a place to move to? Like many people I'm drawn to the coast, though I know it would be more expensive to live there. And I'm not a big city person when it comes to a place to live, though I like to visit big cities from time to time. 

I'd like to get a sense of what the area looks and feels like, more than to see any particular tourist site other than Mont St. Michel--and Bruges, since I'll be in the area and reading the Niccolo books by Dorothy Dunnett made me yearn to see that city. I'd like to see Rouen and Lille but I could skip them if time becomes an issue--I'm unlikely to want to live in either place as they are too big.

*If I were going to spend a week in Brittany, is there a central spot that would be good to base myself at, and take day-trips from there to the rest of the area?*

Ideally I'd come out of this trip with a couple of ideas about places I might want to spend a month or so in next year. And Brittany is a much more likely candidate for that than Normandy.

Any advice is welcome! (Other than advice to stay home! I'm already fighting with myself on that subject.)


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## travertine

We did a similar trip in late August in order to get an overview of Brittany with a view to buying a house. We ended up staying in 3 different places which necessitated packing and unpacking frequently. If you already have a good sense of the places you wish to visit and they happen to extend around the coast then choosing a central location is practical. We particularly liked Josselin which is central, on the Nantes-Brest canal, has a lovely chateau and a lively village centre. So nice in fact we've bought a house on the river just outside of Josselin. You can take day trips each day and get to Brest for instance in just over 2 hours or Sant-Malo/Cancale in under 2 hours. It all depends on your preferred destinations really.


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## suein56

Josselin is very English .. it is exactly as travertine says : attractive and lively; but has an incredibly British feel due to the number of expats there .. IMO.
It is a beautiful 'petite cité de caractère' .. it was very run down about 15 years ago but has perked up a lot since then.
Morbihan has worked hard in the past few years to encourage tourism to overcome a departmental decline which lasted for many years.
Hiring a car would be a good idea after arriving in Brittany by train.
The coastal areas are varied and eye-wateringly beautiful but often awkward (time-consuming) to reach.
There are so many interesting small places that you might find you miss a lot if you only consecrate a week to Brittany .. but then I'm biased 😉


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## Bevdeforges

A couple of general bits of information that might simplify your decision process:
Outside of the large towns ("cities" if you will) there is really very little "public transportation" for doing the sort of trip you are planning. And actually Brittany and Normandy have few, if any, toll roads - the locals are against them and there have been some "interesting" confrontations over attempts to change this. So, easy, peasy - yes, you should rent a car and drive. And these days, those toll roads you may encounter in the outskirts of Paris on your way to Normandy and Brittany all take (or these days, "require") a credit card if you don't have a pass.

As far as driving in France, you do need to be aware of the differences in driving - both some of the rules differences (priorité à droit - right of way from the right is usually the most difficult for Americans to cope with), and the general style of driving. Driving throughout Europe, but maybe particularly in France, can be more "aggressive" than what you're used to. Make sure you are familiar with the pictograph signage (AAA in the US usually can provide a chart of the standard European road markers) and, if you can, try to review a booklet or pamphlet on the rules of the road in France (or in Europe - rules are similar if not always exactly the same). Past that, my Dad's advice seems to work out best, "drive your own car." If someone wants to pass you on a narrow road, let them do so - it really isn't a contest and the locals can easily get away with pushing the envelope because they know the local roads, speed traps and what rules are or aren't "enforced." 

And check on what sort of rental car you are reserving. If it's gas or diesel powered, you may wind up with a manual transmission. Hybrid or electric gives you an automatic transmission. Not sure what the rental car companies are offering these days, but if you don't drive a manual box, be sure you ask.


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## conky2

Not being a driver I can't tell you much, but I once rented a site in St. Silica Sur Mer on the Rance which is beautiful. Dinan is well worth a visit imho.


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## EuroTrash

Sounds like the makings of a great trip.
Funnily enough, all the places you've picked have the "special" sticker in my box of memories, for different reasons, apart from Brussels that I can't remember much about.
I do think you will get much more out of Brittany with a car. You could do as suein56 suggests, arrive in Brittany by train and then get a car, or you could hire a car in Rouen and drop it back there on your way back. I'm not sure if you can get from Rouen to Brittany by train without going through Paris and you might be a bit sick of going in and out of Paris by then - you'll probably change at Paris between Belgium and Lille, and again between Lille and Rouen.
I agree with suein56, spend as long as you can exploring Brittany, it's a wonderful part of France. So varied, and no matter how many magical places you find here's always somewhere else to discover.
It's funny what suein56 said about Josselin and the English because I spent a couple of nights there several years ago and my visit was a bit spoiled by a gathering of English in several very large motorhomes who had taken over the aire de camping car. They seemed well settled in, looked as if they'd been there for weeks and weren't planning on leaving any time soon, and both nights I was there they all dined together in the middle of the aire with much wine and loud guffawing, not very considerate for the other camping caristes. I would have left after the first night but it was one of those where you pay when you arrive and I'd paid for 48 hours. Shame, because Josselin itself is very characterful and well worth exploring.


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## bhamham

I stayed three months near Josselin while looking for a house. I wouldn't describe it as lively at least while I was there (Oct-Dec) but I can imagine that spring/summer must bring in the tourists. It's a lovely spot and the canal is wonderful to ride a bike or stroll along. I agree you will definitely need a car as there's not much public transport or it can be sporadic. And, there are a lot of Brits. Josselin's Super U is probably better stocked for Brit food than Sainsburys in Telford - just kidding.


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## Keri22

I favor Cotes d'Armor and the Tregor. Track the coast from Paimpol to the bay of Morlaix, which is just in Finistere. The English have tended to buy homes in the centre of Brittany. More bang for the buck, but more quiet.


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## boilerman

I can only speak of Normandy and the journey from the tunnel. The motorways in France, certainly in Northern France are the best I've encountered, and if you pay a toll, its well worth it(unlike the M6 toll near me) From Calais to Barneville/Carteret it cost about £15 in total, But if I had a choice I'd go by train then hire a car, only because I dont like long car journeys any more. FWIW, Normandy doesn't seem to have loads of brits, sure you get the D-Day landing beaches which are of interest, but I've never been bothered by their numbers as some have found.
IMO unless you're really fit and do it by bike, then the car is the best option enjoy, lucky you


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## conky2

conky2 said:


> Not being a driver I can't tell you much, but I once rented a site in St. Silica Sur Mer on the Rance which is beautiful. Dinan is well worth a visit imho.


That should read Saint Suliac Sur Mer..........bloody autocorrect


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## Befuddled

I am very much in accord with *Keri22*. An unhurried trip along that patch of northern Brittany is a real treat. Many miles of coastline offering varied terrain. And to see the same patch at both high and low tides is remarkable. You can find idyllic beaches and even in summer you might have them to yourself. I am one of the Brits that settled about 45 minutes inland, because the rich Germans and Dutch bought up the coastal properties years ago when they were still cheap.
By all means, get to Brittany by train if it makes sense but you will most certainly need a car. I had forgotten that Americans no longer use manual transmissions but if you can rent an automatic diesel that would be a good option and so cheap to run the fuel cost won't even be a consideration. Electric? There are charging points in the centre of most towns now but I wouldn't want to have that to worry about. Apart from the cities you probably won't pay a penny for parking during your tour. I have only paid to park twice in the last 20 years, and that was at an airport.


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## SPGW

As others have advised, I would definitely go for train then hire car for local visits. Maybe a personal preference, but unless you have a specific attraction for Bruges and Rouen, I would swap them for Gent and Rennes. Rennes also brings you into the heart of Brittany (Rouen being Normandy and imho a boring town with a road system guaranteeing to disorient you) - the peninsula north of Paimpol is great for coast walks, Ile de Brehat especially.


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## suein56

Good point ET makes about possibly insisting on an automatic gearbox .. 
Plus I would advise you not to hire a big car .. go for medium to smallish, especially if you are visiting coastal areas in Brittany. As small cars are much easier to park and to nip around in through narrow streets.


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## Yours truly confused

SPGW said:


> I would swap them for Gent


I second this proposal, Bruges is really now just a tourist destination almost on theme park terms, in that, you will not get a feeling of the country or its people. Gent on the other hand has all the great architecture you find in Bruges but is a living, breathing city of small enough proportions for you to get around. The canal trips are quite nice too. There used to be a great chocolate shop in the centre, you looked through their front window and down into the chocolate making kitchen, the coated cherries were heavenly!


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## EuroTrash

SPGW said:


> Rouen being Normandy and imho a boring town with a road system guaranteeing to disorient you


Personally I don't think it's fair to call Rouen boring  Rouen has a superb medieval quarter and a very fine, impressive cathedral, and the river, and a good market, and a modern part with shops. It has scruffy bits too but it's a "real" town with real people in it doing real things. I get a feel-good buzz strolling around it, accordian players on street corners etc. I'm actually rather fond of Rouen.
Of course we all have our own personal preferences and favourite towns, there's no end of interesting and attractive places in that part of France and Belgium,and in one visit you can barely scratch the surface, but I don't see any reason to put Barb TF off visiting Rouen if she has a fancy to see it. 
Same with Bruges really. Yes it is very touristy if you go in tourist season, and once you've been there once or twice you probably won't want to go back because the magic starts wearing off, but there is a reason why people flock there. Some places you just gotta see once in your life. You could say exactly the same about Mont Saint Michel, it's a tourist honeypot, but the first time I went there I was totally captivated and I would have missed out on a happy and quite magical experience if I'd never been.. 
I'm just thinking that by the time we've told Barb not to go to Bruges or Rouen or MSM there won't be much left of her original plans!

PS 


BarbTF said:


> I went to Honfleur (and to another town that had a really cool wooden cathedral...)


Honfleur does have a cute wooden church. St Catherine's.


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## boilerman

😁
One mans meat ,an all that, Some lovely places in Normandy, Honfleur being one of them









Its suits me, that's all that matters, and thats with exploring other areas, even the Dordogne😁.


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## BarbTF

Thank you all so much! I will continue my research and make sure to look into your suggestions. I was already planning on an automatic transmission for my rental car--if God intended us to drive standards, He wouldn't have invented automatics, right? 

And Boiler, I have a photo of that spot I took on my visit there that's still a favorite photo of mine:


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## BarbTF

I also have this photo I took in Cassis a few years later...maybe this is just the standard plan for French village harbors--it looks very similar!


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## Kenpimentel

We moved to Brest six months ago and we absolutely love the coast of Finistere. We've barely touched the possibilities, but have covered the coast from Brest to Roscoff pretty well. It is all pretty amazing. It is so different than what I'm used to living on West/East Coast of USA. Definitely get a car. We found almost zero traffic driving around in August. Expected it to be crowded, but by our measure it was deserted. A lot of the interior driving we did wasn't that interesting at times, so we tried to stick to the coast. Figuring out where to go isn't too hard because if you just look at Google Maps you'll see all the places with a mix of big beaches and rocky coastlines. Renting a manual is a lot cheaper (usually) than an automatic and there is more supply. We rented with Eurocar, but I'm sure there are lots of options. I think the further West you go in Brittany, the fewer expats you'll run into (which seems a plus/minus for some people). We have a home now in Le Conquet and I think there are a handful of Brits and Americans there. For us, that's a nice mix as we want to integrate with the locals primarily (if they let us!)


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## BackinFrance

As I follow the science and the incidence of Delta in various countries, Barb, I have no issue with your plans. Delta I think is the big issue and it seems to be in the process of being well overtaken by Omicron in the US, the latter variant may well be the one we have to live with, a little like seasonal flu, though many will perhaps disagree with me. I am really not familiar with the areas you are planning to visit, so I have no comment in that regard, though I do think it would be better not to change accommodation too frequently, especially as there may be issues with book in and check out time's, not to mention getting clotting such as underwear dry, though that particular item can be overcome by bringing sufficient for your entire stay, which can be a bit more complicated with other clothing items. Anyway, given the time of year and these days the impossibility of predicting the weather from one day to the next, bring layered clothing that will be suitable for whatever the weather chooses to dish out. 

Bear in mind too that driving alone in areas that you are not familiar with is very different to doing so with someone else in the car who would notice things the driver might not, so the amount of ground you will be able to cover and actually see in 2 weeks could be reduced. 

Planning can be one of the best parts of such a trip and is a good diversion from the troubles of the world. I hope that you enjoy both the planning and the trip.


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## BackinFrance

BarbTF said:


> I also have this photo I took in Cassis a few years later...maybe this is just the standard plan for French village harbors--it looks very similar!
> 
> View attachment 100952


I love Cassis, but out of season. From late spring early summer until autumn it is impossible.


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## BackinFrance

BackinFrance said:


> I love Cassis, but out of season. From late spring early summer until autumn it is impossible.


Well, unless you are very wealthy I am fortunate enough to have a facsimile of a resident pass and somewhere to park when I arrive, but it is still a major headache, which I suspect that could be very different in Brittany and Normandy even at the height of their shorter tourist season. But as I said I am not familiar with those areas, whilst many here know them well.


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## Bevdeforges

Just a thought for you, Barb. If you're going to be driving around you may want to get yourself the Waze app for your mobile phone. That way you can use it in France for driving directions without having to buy a new set of maps and all. The other advantage to Waze is that it is constantly updated - and routing is based on how people actually go places rather than just calculated based on what the map shows as available roads. I have yet to be sent down a dirt road/path using Waze - unlike when I was using a GPS device with dedicated maps. 

Automatic transmissions are becoming more and more popular here - though I don't know what the rental car companies are renting out these days. 

But you're getting lots of interesting ideas for your trip. Let us know as you start making firm plans.


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## boilerman

Bevdeforges said:


> Just a thought for you, Barb. If you're going to be driving around you may want to get yourself the Waze app for your mobile phone. That way you can use it in France for driving directions without having to buy a new set of maps and all. The other advantage to Waze is that it is constantly updated - and routing is based on how people actually go places rather than just calculated based on what the map shows as available roads. I have yet to be sent down a dirt road/path using Waze - unlike when I was using a GPS device with dedicated maps.
> 
> Automatic transmissions are becoming more and more popular here - though I don't know what the rental car companies are renting out these days.
> 
> But you're getting lots of interesting ideas for your trip. Let us know as you start making firm plans.


Bev, is Waze(which I hadn't heard of) better than Google maps, only, I've had signal problems(lack of) with Google which was quite traumatic


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## BackinFrance

I think Waze is more up to date, and it does provide more real-time information on road conditions, detours and the like. However I cannot say that it would necessarily resolve an internet signal problem because there so many things that could potentially cause that.


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## EuroTrash

I've always assumed that apps like Waze don't offer the same route options, that's what puts me off, but maybe I'm wrong. For instance can you opt to avoid all motorways/péages/etc? My GPS has a "green route" option that suits me perfectly for most of my driving these days, whereas I somehow (perhaps wrongly) envision the switched-on, clued-up peeps that contribute to Waze choosing routes more for quickness and efficiency.


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## Franco-Belgian Brit

Just one thing to add, by all means do visit Bruges, but also do not miss out on Ghent. The old town is fantastic and less touristic than Bruges. In fact, we prefer Ghent.


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## boilerman

EuroTrash said:


> I've always assumed that apps like Waze don't offer the same route options, that's what puts me off, but maybe I'm wrong. For instance can you opt to avoid all motorways/péages/etc? My GPS has a "green route" option that suits me perfectly for most of my driving these days, whereas I somehow (perhaps wrongly) envision the switched-on, clued-up peeps that contribute to Waze choosing routes more for quickness and efficiency.


I know nothing about Waze, so I just checked on my local area, and found that a little mini estate near me, has been omitted/ not updated. Its been therefor 18months, so I give up
Edit, just checked Google maps and its not there either


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## Bevdeforges

Waze is an online app that doesn't really have any influence over the quality of your signal. And obviously, you would need a roaming plan while in France that gives you some data capacity - though Waze isn't really a "data hog" in use.

Each app has its own method of calculating routes. I'm not sure what Google does, but the GPS gadgets seem to calculate the route based on what's on the map (including things like speed limits, etc.). Waze actually uses the data submitted by the users about how they get places and what routes they prefer. And it has options to use or avoid toll roads, get a minimum of possible routes (I think the standard is 3, though the routes may overlap) and I think you can actually indicate what sort of vehicle you're driving (i.e. truck vs. passenger car). Plus, they show updates for closed roads, potholes, bad weather, etc. as these are reported in by the users.

As to Boilerman's problem with the local mini-estate - that may relate to whether the roads have been "officialized" yet by the town or whoever. Some of those small complexes are considered "private property" and thus may not be included on official maps (yet?). Or maybe just that no one in the new estate uses Waze so they've had no reports yet from those streets. Try plugging in an address in the new mini-estate and see what it shows you on the map.


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## BackinFrance

I don't use either, I don't use the integrated GPS in my car either. That's because I know from experience that they are all pretty useless in my area and I have even checked how they function in my immediate vicinity. I recently invested in a Wi-Fi Tom Tom that updates continuously, but even so it doesn't know the specifics of roadworks, detours, some of the flooding etc here sometimes on the same day but definitely not in real time (but it works better for me than the others). That said I don't think I have traveled further than about 45 or so kilomètres since the pandemic started.


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## boilerman

Bevdeforges said:


> Waze is an online app that doesn't really have any influence over the quality of your signal. And obviously, you would need a roaming plan while in France that gives you some data capacity - though Waze isn't really a "data hog" in use.
> 
> Each app has its own method of calculating routes. I'm not sure what Google does, but the GPS gadgets seem to calculate the route based on what's on the map (including things like speed limits, etc.). Waze actually uses the data submitted by the users about how they get places and what routes they prefer. And it has options to use or avoid toll roads, get a minimum of possible routes (I think the standard is 3, though the routes may overlap) and I think you can actually indicate what sort of vehicle you're driving (i.e. truck vs. passenger car). Plus, they show updates for closed roads, potholes, bad weather, etc. as these are reported in by the users.
> 
> As to Boilerman's problem with the local mini-estate - that may relate to whether the roads have been "officialized" yet by the town or whoever. Some of those small complexes are considered "private property" and thus may not be included on official maps (yet?). Or maybe just that no one in the new estate uses Waze so they've had no reports yet from those streets. *Try plugging in an address in the new mini-estate and see what it shows you on the map.*


Thanks Bev, I look into later when I walk the dogs. I dont know any of the road names😮


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## Bevdeforges

I've got a built-in GPS system in my car, too, but it costs a fortune to update it every 2 or 3 years and I prefer how Waze works. For someone visiting France from the US, Waze also saves the issue of having to buy additional maps for travel purposes. (And actually, you can see routes on the other continents, too. Haven't done that in a while, but it can be fun.)


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## boilerman

I understand about the signal problems now, but at the time it was a shock, so its just something to consider. I'd been using my VW in car sat nav happily for years till the radio unit died, then the new non VW radio made me use Google maps. It take some getting used to for an old git like me
Sorry, we digressed from Barbs thread


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## Keri22

But for exploring the Breton coast I do think the blue series paper maps are the best.


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## Befuddled

Do they still exist? I thought they were wickedly expensive over a decade ago, but yes they are good.

Sort of related: 50 years ago my girlfriend joined me in UK to set off on a month of camping holiday covering most of Europe. She thought she was helping out by bringing a stack of "European" maps bought from the AAA. Three days into the trip I discovered why we were having so much trouble. The American maps were "translated". With that I mean they had translated the local language place names into English. Gravenhaag became The Hague, Firenze bacame Florence, etc. With the more famous places this wasn't a big problem but with the smaller places it made local road signs into chaos. An expensive stack of maps firelighters taking up precious space in a Mini.


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## bhamham

I use Waze and like it a lot. Barb, if you're on T-mobile in the US they do an international add-on for $50/mo - I know it's ridiculously expensive but it's very good. It's seamless so you can call the US and they can call you like you're in the US, and the internet signal is really good when you're in the Brittany boonies. I used it until I got my Free mobile acct activated. There may be cheaper options that others know of.


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## Keri22

Befuddled said:


> Do they still exist? I thought they were wickedly expensive over a decade ago, but yes they are good.
> 
> Sort of related: 50 years ago my girlfriend joined me in UK to set off on a month of camping holiday covering most of Europe. She thought she was helping out by bringing a stack of "European" maps bought from the AAA. Three days into the trip I discovered why we were having so much trouble. The American maps were "translated". With that I mean they had translated the local language place names into English. Gravenhaag became The Hague, Firenze bacame Florence, etc. With the more famous places this wasn't a big problem but with the smaller places it made local road signs into chaos. An expensive stack of maps firelighters taking up precious space in a Mini.


they are too expensive, my commune was split between three, but now they have consolidated. nevertheless they are reliable and show all the little walking routes. I once used the inbuilt gps in my car for a route in the center of Brittany and it directed me onto a dirt track. my blue series paper map would have alerted me to that.


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## Befuddled

Some years ago I was following a route on my budget TomTom gps and the road led me to a river crossing where there was no actual bridge.


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## BarbTF

bhamham said:


> I use Waze and like it a lot. Barb, if you're on T-mobile in the US they do an international add-on for $50/mo - I know it's ridiculously expensive but it's very good. It's seamless so you can call the US and they can call you like you're in the US, and the internet signal is really good when you're in the Brittany boonies. I used it until I got my Free mobile acct activated. There may be cheaper options that others know of.


Thanks! I have Verizon and while I think they have something similar (and similarly expensive) available, I do need to check on the options. I know there's a $10 per day you use it option, or was a few years ago when I last went to Europe, but I think they also have a monthly add-on available that's more economical when you know you'll be using your phone for more than a few days. What I really don't know is how their networks are in the wilds of Brittany. I guess I will find out when I get there.


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## BarbTF

And I did have Waze installed a couple years ago, but after the day it directed me to the wrong town when I was trying to get to my local post office in the wilds of Maine, after a couple similar incidents on back roads, I stopped using it and stuck with my iPhone's GPS (is that Google Maps? Not sure what they use.) At the time, Waze worked great here on "bigger" roads/more populated areas, but not so well in rural areas, probably because they would have had fewer users there to get data from.

I found during my drives between Florida and upstate New York this Christmastime that the iPhone GPS also warns me if there are accidents, speed traps, etc. reported by other users. This is something new, and I don't know if it is due to incorporating Waze somehow or if they have their own method for users to report that stuff (I didn't see a method in my quick look over the app.)

Anyhow, both apps may well behave differently in Europe so I appreciate the tips on that too!


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## Bevdeforges

Waze is free to download and use - so if you're tempted, you could always just download it to your current phone and "play" with it a bit. Then, when you get over here (if you get the data plan stuff worked out), you'll at least have a familiar voice and app to work with.


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## BarbTF

Another related question: in general, for train travel, am I better off buying a ticket for a specific train in advance, or should I just show up on the day and time I want to travel and buy the ticket then?

I can't reserve a seat unless I travel first-class, correct? Or is that only in the UK? (Have only done train travel in the UK before, not in Europe.)

Or does all this vary by country, specific journey, etc.?


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## Bevdeforges

When and whether to make a train reservation in advance can depend to quite a degree on when and where you are traveling. There are peak periods when you'll pay the top price for some tickets (say, weekends or just before a long holiday weekend) and there are off-peak times when you can get all sorts of discounts and deals or take advantage of discount cards. You must reserve a seat if you take a TGV. On a slower train you don't reserve your seat (or at least you don't have to). And, at the moment, the virus is playing havoc with train schedules as so many SNCF employees are out sick, so it can depend on the routes you're looking to travel and which trains are more likely to get cancelled if there are staff shortages.


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## boilerman

I'm not sure if I've missed a point here, but I presume Barb is flying from the USA. If that's right, I'd be renting a car straight away, and forget public transport. As Bev has just pointed out, there is a shortage of staff everywhere, including public transport, so that may well be unreliable. Although I'm not a great lover of driving long distances anymore, I think you'll enjoy the beauty of France, better from behind a steering wheel, and lets face it, America is massive, so its maybe not so daunting for Barb to get some miles in. Just a thought.

If I've got that wrong about flying in, its the wine talking


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## BarbTF

boilerman said:


> I'm not sure if I've missed a point here, but I presume Barb is flying from the USA. If that's right, I'd be renting a car straight away, and forget public transport. As Bev has just pointed out, there is a shortage of staff everywhere, including public transport, so that may well be unreliable. Although I'm not a great lover of driving long distances anymore, I think you'll enjoy the beauty of France, better from behind a steering wheel, and lets face it, America is massive, so its maybe not so daunting for Barb to get some miles in. Just a thought.
> 
> If I've got that wrong about flying in, its the wine talking


I'm actually starting from Copenhagen (was trying to keep it quiet since I know some people are horrified by the idea (!!) but I'm actually getting to Cophenhagen via a transatlantic cruise), and figured to fly to Brussels and go on from there, since I am a little intimidated by CDG and all the strikes that are constantly being threatened/done there as well as the nightmare stories I keep hearing about the time it sometimes takes to get through security etc. And then at the end of my holiday I was going to fly back to the US from Brussels as well.

So I could take a train from Brussels to my first couple of destinations, and then pick up a car along the way, which is what I thought I might do (thinking as of today of a train to Ghent, then to Bruges, then to Rouen, pick up car in Rouen...then at the end of the holiday return car to Rouen and train from there to Brussels.)

Would it make more sense to pick up/return the car in Brussels and skip the train altogether? My main concern is parking in Ghent/Bruges/Rouen--and in Brussels for the night before my flight--but if that isn't an issue then a car might make more sense. A lot of toll roads might also complicate things--not sure if my US credit cards will work on the toll roads, I had read things a couple years back about that being a problem because of the chip-and-pin thing.


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## boilerman

BarbTF said:


> I'm actually starting from Copenhagen (was trying to keep it quiet since I know some people are horrified by the idea (!!) but I'm actually getting to Cophenhagen via a transatlantic cruise), and figured to fly to Brussels and go on from there, since I am a little intimidated by CDG and all the strikes that are constantly being threatened/done there as well as the nightmare stories I keep hearing about the time it sometimes takes to get through security etc. And then at the end of my holiday I was going to fly back to the US from Brussels as well.
> 
> So I could take a train from Brussels to my first couple of destinations, and then pick up a car along the way, which is what I thought I might do (thinking as of today of a train to Ghent, then to Bruges, then to Rouen, pick up car in Rouen...then at the end of the holiday return car to Rouen and train from there to Brussels.)
> 
> *Would it make more sense to pick up/return the car in Brussels and skip the train altogether? My main concern is parking in Ghent/Bruges/Rouen--and in Brussels for the night before my flight--but if that isn't an issue then a car might make more sense. A lot of toll roads might also complicate things--not sure if my US credit cards will work on the toll roads, I had read things a couple years back about that being a problem because of the chip-and-pin thing.*


Sorry Barb, I cant help with that, but there will be someone on here who'll know. 
I get a angst, I really do, its a different world after all, even for a brit like me, but you seem more intrepid so I reckon you'll be fine.
As far as hitting deadlines for transport, we just get and AirB&B in the local area, not necessarily close by, in fact sometimes a half hour drive away so that we have parking and then get up in time, to do it, without worrying about missing appointments.

Sorry you had to expose yourself, if you know what I mean


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## zarathustra

I've visited various parts of Brittany over the past few years, and found a car to be a necessity. It started around Perros-Guirec and the granite coast (spectacular rocks/ocean), which was absolutely beautiful, especially the beaches and coastline around Trégastel which had a beautiful coloured ocean. A boat trip out to the Sept Îles with the bird life and old fort is also a must. If you're in that area, I highly recommend a day trip to Île-de-Bréhat, one of the first protected pieces of land since the early 1900's, so remains unspoiled and explorable within a day.

Saint Malo certainly stood out. Driving in, and not sure where I was going, the outskirts were disappointing, but once you hit the fortified old town you begin to understand the charm. A little too busy for my liking though, and inhabited by wealthy Parisian second-home owners as I understand it.

Finistère was also amazing, some nice beaches and walking (albeit precarious) along some of the coastal routes, with the most beautiful of views. Concarneau was a nice visit, but a bit further along from where I was hanging out.

I was in Morbihan last year, and it was the least favourite of my visits. It took a while to realise that coast and beaches were not on the same level, and that to appreciate the area you have to go inland and visit the towns and villages. The famous Carnac was a great disappointment - all fenced off, and rather bland, but some of the nearby forests had that Brittany magic and their own assortments of megaliths and dolmens which were far more impressive. The medieval towns are clean and lively, although not radically different to what I have on my doorstep. Rochefort-en-Terre particularly stood out to me, and if you get a chance to visit and see the 'Naia gallery' in the ruined part of the castle, don't hesitate to pay it a visit!
Vannes is worth a visit as is Josselin. Belle-Île-en-Mer,is a little pricey to visit, but I got there early and grabbed the buses to visit some of the prime locations,none of which disappointed.


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## Bevdeforges

BarbTF said:


> there as well as the nightmare stories I keep hearing about the time it sometimes takes to get through security etc. And then at the end of my holiday I was going to fly back to the US from Brussels as well.


While I'll admit that CDG is NOT my favorite airport by a long shot, it isn't usually a "nightmare" like some would have you think. Security is impacted by the same things as in the States - bad weather, staff shortages, etc. But if you're thinking about moving to France for the long haul you might as well get used to maneuvering through and around the strikes (though they are not nearly as frequent as they used to be 20 years ago or so).

I would avoid having a car in any of the big cities - Brussels, Paris, etc. - but train out to Rouen or wherever strikes your fancy and pick up a car and drive from there. Parking in the smaller towns in Normandy and Bretagne shouldn't be all that much of a hassle other than weekends in high tourist season. But being on holiday means you can work around that.


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## BarbTF

boilerman said:


> I get a angst, I really do, its a different world after all, even for a brit like me, but you seem more intrepid so I reckon you'll be fine.


I don't think I'm that intrepid. Everything will be fully (or almost fully) refundable and if the virus situation looks scary when it's time to leave on the cruise, I'll cancel the whole thing. 

The thing that worries me most is driving in bigger cities and finding parking there! One of the few things I wish I had a husband for--but since I'd only appreciate a husband when he's driving or finding parking, or killing spiders or lifting heavy things or doing stuff like fixing plumbing or installing new light fixtures, it doesn't seem worth the tradeoff! Clearly I've gotten old and cynical!


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## boilerman

BarbTF said:


> I don't think I'm that intrepid. Everything will be fully (or almost fully) refundable and if the virus situation looks scary when it's time to leave on the cruise, I'll cancel the whole thing.
> 
> The thing that worries me most is driving in bigger cities and finding parking there! One of the few things I wish I had a husband for--but since I'd only appreciate a husband when he's driving or finding parking, or killing spiders or lifting heavy things or doing stuff like fixing plumbing or installing new light fixtures, it doesn't seem worth the tradeoff! Clearly I've gotten old and cynical!


Proper funny that


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## nrlaurin

Kenpimentel said:


> We moved to Brest six months ago and we absolutely love the coast of Finistere. We've barely touched the possibilities, but have covered the coast from Brest to Roscoff pretty well. It is all pretty amazing. It is so different than what I'm used to living on West/East Coast of USA. Definitely get a car. We found almost zero traffic driving around in August. Expected it to be crowded, but by our measure it was deserted. A lot of the interior driving we did wasn't that interesting at times, so we tried to stick to the coast. Figuring out where to go isn't too hard because if you just look at Google Maps you'll see all the places with a mix of big beaches and rocky coastlines. Renting a manual is a lot cheaper (usually) than an automatic and there is more supply. We rented with Eurocar, but I'm sure there are lots of options. I think the further West you go in Brittany, the fewer expats you'll run into (which seems a plus/minus for some people). We have a home now in Le Conquet and I think there are a handful of Brits and Americans there. For us, that's a nice mix as we want to integrate with the locals primarily (if they let us!)


I fell in love with Le Conquet!!


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## BarbTF

What do you all think of Dinan as a possible place for me to base myself during my time in Brittany? Seems reasonably central, although not right on the coast...but it sounds like an interesting town.


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## ToutesDirections

BarbTF said:


> What do you all think of Dinan as a possible place for me to base myself during my time in Brittany? Seems reasonably central, although not right on the coast...but it sounds like an interesting town.


I spent 3 nights in Dinan in 2019 and like @conky2 would agree it's worth a visit. There's a very nice castle and old town, plenty of good restaurants. The setting is beautiful and there's a gorgeous path for walking along the river. Not having a car I can't speak to parking, etc. Also this was July during peak tourist season - there was a lot going on then. Outside of peak season, it's not a huge town, removing some of the complexity but then it might be on the quieter side. Maybe that appeals to you for a base.

As far as being central in Brittany, it depends... it's a long way to Morbihan and that part of the coast.


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## boilerman

Whats the plan Barb, are you on your way, are you there already, have you decided where to stay, or am I too previous?


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## BarbTF

The plan (which is somewhat dependent on Belgium's rules about Covid testing for new arrivals/requirement to isolate until results received and how fast results come back) is to arrive in Brussels via a flight from Copenhagen in late April, couple nights in Brussels, train to Bruges, 2 nights (essentially 1 full day for touring) in Bruges, train back to Brussels to pick up a rental car, drive to Rouen, night or two in Rouen (I want at least most of a day's worth of time to tour there,) then to somewhere in Brittany for a week to mostly drive around the coast and the towns and just check it all out in a somewhat leisurely manner. Then drive to Bayeux, one overnight there and a visit to the Bayeux Tapestry museum, then drive to Brussels airport and return the car, one night in a hotel near the airport, then fly home. Then drive across the state of Florida at night while exhausted to get to my house!

I have my hotels for the nights in Belgium reserved, but am still trying to figure out lodging specifics for the nights in France. And I have my rental car reserved because I finally found rates had gone down just enough that I didn't feel like I was being robbed. (I checked out the grocery store car rental sites but they seemed inconvenient for my planned travels, and I also read on a message board that you have to have a France residential address to rent one though I did not verify that with the companies.) 

My cruise to Copenhagen will have port days in Brest and Cherbourg and I'm doing a day-long tour (through the cruise line) to Mt. St. Michel on the Cherbourg day. I expect just to walk around and enjoy a leisurely day in Brest the day I'm there.

So mostly I just need to still figure out where to base myself in Brittany for that week (I want to stay in the same AirBnB for the week so I will have cooking facilities and a washing machine etc. and be able to experience what it's like to live there to some small extent) and make my reservations for there, Rouen, and Bayeux. Open to suggestions for them!

(And hoping I will not turn up Covid positive at any point on this trip which will throw a huge wrench in the plans! I've insured my cruise and everything else I'm booking is refundable except my cheap flight from Copenhagen to Brussels.)


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## conky2

Sounds cool Barb....Bayeux is on my 'hit list' as well.


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## BarbTF

I'm kind of a geek for medieval stuff.

Oh, and of course the war in Ukraine could also put a stop to my travels, but any effects it could have on me are not even worth mentioning given the huge consequences it could have for everyone. (And is already having for many.)


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## EuroTrash

BarbTF said:


> Then drive to Bayeux, one overnight there and a visit to the Bayeux Tapestry museum


It is excellent.
You go in and you file past the tapestry (it is verrrrry loooooong) and then you're supposed to go through the door at the other end and carry on round the rest of the museum. But it was so fascinating that when I got to the end, I dodged out of the line and went back to the start and did it all again. There's far too much to take in on one fly-past.
The rest of the museum is interesting too, I spent ages there. 
I went just before Covid started, decided it was time I started crossing things off my bucket list so I started with that - and got no further.
Your plan sounds great. Fingers crossed for you.


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## boilerman

As ET said the Bayeux Tapestry is amazing. 

We are two hours from there, Barneville-Carteret - Wikipedia and probably out of your itinerary area, but if it happens you're around when we are, you're welcome to take a break with us. If you can stand vegetarian food🤣 Keep us posted and see what happens


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## BarbTF

Thanks Boiler! It sounds absolutely lovely there from the Wikipedia page.


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## sangfroid

conky2 said:


> Sounds cool Barb....Bayeux is on my 'hit list' as well.


Hey Conky, I liked Bayeux quite a bit, and viewing the 11th century Bayeux Tapestry was well worth it.


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## BarbTF

I figured I'd report back on my trip just in case someone reads this in future planning something similar.

I ended up with: flying into Brussels, using the train to visit Brussels for 2 days (really more like 1.5 because of taking the train etc.) then to Bruges for 2 days (really more like 1.5) then back to Brussels airport where I picked up a rental car. Drove to Rouen and stayed overnight there. Then drove to far far western Brittany (Porspoder was the town's name) to an AirBnB for the week. Then drove to Bayeux for an overnight, and then back to Brussels, returned the car, stayed a night at a hotel near the airport, and then flew home.

Generally I think it worked well. I was lucky to be assigned a hybrid car, but gas was still crazy expensive compared to what I am used to. I used Waze for a bit but switched to my iPhone's built-in maps app and stayed with that because the way it mispronounced all the French place names was so hilarious, and it also seemed to work fine except the number of the exit from the roundabout it told me to use often did not agree with the number of exits I was counting so I had to turn around and go back pretty frequently--maybe Waze would have done that too.

Brittany has a ridiculous number of roundabouts! 

I had no trouble with my credit cards--I have one that's a "tap" card which I used only for highway tolls because it charges a foreign transaction fee--except at the gas station right next to the Brussels airport where neither card worked and they did not accept cash so I had to return the car without filling it up which was really expensive. I have my paranoid suspicions that the gas station was in cahoots with the rental car folks! Especially since there were no other nearby stations and with huge traffic jams due to construction near the Brussels airport, I didn't feel like I could drive on and try to find another station.

I loved Bruges! I loved my hotel (Hotel du Theatre) and the restaurants I visited there were great, and I could have stayed there a couple more days to visit all the museums I wanted to see. I hope to get back there before too long. A lot of twisty, confusing streets to get lost in but the buildings were so fascinating that I didn't mind.

Brussels, I was less than enchanted with. I think it's mainly that I'm just not a big city person. I saw most of what I wanted to see there, though i missed the art museum which in a perfect world I'd love to go back and visit. I was less thrilled with my hotel there (Ibis Brussels off Grand Place) though the location was perfect for sightseeing and it was clean.

By the time I got to Rouen it was evening, and all the traffic and the confusing streets just made me feel like I could not deal with trying to figure out public transport to get into and back out of the city center the next morning in time to be able to see the cathedral etc. before I had to leave for Brittany, so I actually did not do any sightseeing there. I think it is a place you'd most conveniently do via train from Paris or somewhere else as a day trip. My hotel was a great deal and clean and I was very happy with it (Ibis Budget Rouen Center Rive Gauche) except for the potatoes on the pizza!

To console myself for missing Rouen, I stopped on my drive out to far western Brittany at Pointe du Chevet near Ploubalay, and did a little bit of a walk along the coast. It was just beautiful, and not at all crowded in spite of the sunny day. I recommend it!

My AirBnB was wonderful. I was really impressed with the produce at the local supermarkets, even. I got a huge gorgeous cauliflower and some leeks that cost about 1/4 what they'd cost in the US, among other things. I cooked most of my meals during the week I was there--many of the restaurants did not seem to be open during the weekdays. I did a lot of driving around the coast from there, but I realized I goofed by picking a spot so remote--looked up going to Dinan or St-Malo for a day and both were 2.5-3 hours' drive away, which was just too much for me to want to do as a day trip.

I spent my time driving to various coastal spots, menhirs, old chapels, and the like in the more immediate area and walking around and enjoying. I LOVED the area. I think I could happily live there full-time if I can ever get up the courage to move to France. I would like to go back to Brittany and stay somewhere near St-Malo for part of a week and somewhere on the southern coast for the rest of the week, to see the rest of it.

My trip to Bayeux worked well timing-wise. I got to my hotel at about 15:30 (Hotel de Brunville, which was fine but not anything special) which meant I had time to see the cathedral as well as the Bayeux Tapestry. Definitely a bucket-list item checked off! I like Bayeux just fine, although I can't say why I liked it but disliked Rouen. Maybe because it's a smaller city?

The hotel near the Brussels airport where I spent my last night (NH Brussels Airport, Machelen) was a very nice business-type hotel just across from a train station. It seemed like it might be convenient for Brussels sightseeing because of the train station, though many trains did not stop at that station which might be a downside.

Oh, and Mt St Michel which I visited on a cruise line excursion the day we ported in Cherbourg--because of the French school holidays (at least that's what our guide told us) it was INCREDIBLY crowded and miserable. I am still glad I went because it's just beautiful, but I want to go back some time when it is not overwhelmed with tourists. Bucket list item checked off, though.

A few random observations: the toll roads were expensive but they were in excellent shape and mostly uncrowded. In fact, the roads in general in France and Belgium were in impressively good condition compared to what I'm used to in the US. I was also impressed by how far along spring was throughout my trip--first cutting of hay fields was going on, which surprised me. In the northeastern US where I grew up (my grandparents and a couple of my aunts/uncles had dairy farms and I lived in a farming area so I know of what I speak) first hay cutting was not until mid-late June. Even with climate change that means that this area of Europe has a milder climate than the northeastern US--which I also like! I was impressed by the quality of food in the local supermarkets, especially produce. Oh and I thought drivers in general were much less stressed/rude/dangerous than US drivers, although I did have some tailgaters.

And my French (via Duolingo) was adequate to ask questions and understand yes/no or other simple answers, but in Brittany where nobody seemed to speak much English I had real trouble understanding what people were saying to me. They just talked way too fast for my brain to translate! But I'm sure I'd get past that before long if I moved there.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Sorry for the length of this, but figured my observations may help someone so wanted to post them.


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## Bevdeforges

Great report, Barb - and so glad your trip was such a big success. With how taken you were with Bruges, I do have to recommend the film "In Bruges" (I think that's the English title - in French it's called "Bon baiser de Bruges" - film is in English, though.) Gorgeous film of the town - and a really strange story about two hit men from the UK who have botched a job and so are hiding out in Bruges. You may have already seen it, but if not, definitely worth a watch. (Last I looked it was on Netflix, but may be on other streaming services by now.)

Mont St. Michel seems to be pretty much always crowded these days. When you go back, one "trick" is to make your way all the way up to the top of the rock, where you can take the tour of the castle/monastery, winding your way down through the building. Apparently they still haven't found all the little side passages and hidden rooms, and the history of the site is really fascinating. 


BarbTF said:


> the toll roads were expensive but they were in excellent shape and mostly uncrowded.


The construction techniques for roadways here is completely different from whatever they do in the US. And the quality definitely shows. (Also, the continuing high tolls provides "private money" for maintaining the roadways that can be hard to come by back in the US.)


BarbTF said:


> I was also impressed by how far along spring was throughout my trip--first cutting of hay fields was going on, which surprised me.


It surprises many of us who have lived here for a few decades now. Last year spring was amazingly late. This year, it has come early. Climate change, no doubt. But yes, the climate here has always been considerably milder than the US East Coast, even though France is quite a bit further north. Traditionally that's thanks to the Gulf Stream - but in recent years they say that is weakening due to climate change, so who knows what it will be in another 20 years?


BarbTF said:


> Oh and I thought drivers in general were much less stressed/rude/dangerous than US drivers, although I did have some tailgaters.


The usual European complaint about US drivers is that they are "erratic." So here you at least know what to expect - especially the tailgaters. <g>

So, when are you moving over here for real????


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## BarbTF

Bevdeforges said:


> Great report, Barb - and so glad your trip was such a big success. With how taken you were with Bruges, I do have to recommend the film "In Bruges" (I think that's the English title - in French it's called "Bon baiser de Bruges" - film is in English, though.) Gorgeous film of the town - and a really strange story about two hit men from the UK who have botched a job and so are hiding out in Bruges. You may have already seen it, but if not, definitely worth a watch. (Last I looked it was on Netflix, but may be on other streaming services by now.)


I haven't seen it but my son said pretty much the same thing as you about that film...I need to check it out soon.

Re moving to France, I'm not quite ready to take the plunge of full-time living in France yet. I'm too cautious, I guess. I need to get all my ducks in a very precise row first, although I might just procrastinate and never get them lined up!


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