# moving out



## Irishgirl (Sep 26, 2008)

Hey, 
Wanted to share my thoughts of living here and also my thoughts on what Ill miss when im leaving!! So after 4 years living here just south of Barcelona, we are moving back to Ireland..... My Hubby has gottena new Job working for an english company. We can stay here in Spain as he will still be travelling with work but we have decided to move home(Ireland).
The pros far out weight the cons. Leaving the weather is going to be the big thing but family support and having a proper base is the major draw back here to Ireland.
Ive found living here its hard, firstly the language you really need to speak the language!!! The Bullcrap you have to go through to do anything here, get a mobile, buying a car registering it.. lack of customer service the list goes on.

Dont get me wrong I have enjoyed my time here, the weather the beaches and most of all the good friends I have made. But when I have gone home the difference in peoples attitude in shops and resturants its refreshing.
My hubby was on an ok wage here in Spain but it getting more expensive to live here and the wages are getting less. 
I think that Spains economy and the cost of living are going to get worse and its going to get worse before getting better....... 
Spain is not going anywhere and its only 2 hours away.......ill come visit but im happy to be going home :clap2:

Nini


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

We returned to the UK last summer after four years. It broke my heart, I loved it in Spain and would do anything to go back, but I do understand what you are saying. The UK is much easier, the language, the rules, the way things are done and as you say, Spain is getting more expensive and the relaxing lifestyle is becoming hard to find!!

Good luck with your move, you'll feel strange when you first get back, but hopefully you'll settle back into it - I'm still trying 

Jo xxxx


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Good luck with your move Irishgirl!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

What is it with customer service? A lot of people mention it, but I don't think it's bad at all, and in many cases very good. I certainly notice shop assistants who couldn't give a damn in the UK, especially in smaller shops.
Something more endemic in the south of Spain??


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

What a lovely post from Irishgirl; truthful, valid and heartning. Great her husband acquired decent employment in the old country after busting his butt on low wages in Spain living the dream. Irishgirl came, saw and conquered and with the memories, new friends, the desire to return to Spain I wish her the best.

Forget about Customer Service in Spain, you buy a packet of cigarettes, you pay for them,you get them, dont expect anything else especially a smile. That's the way the Spanish are. Dont expect to hear "please" and "thank you" as they don't do it. They see nothing wrong with this. I know we dont want to become like them as (it appears to us) two wrongs dont make a right. But, when you get to know the Spanish and are invited into their homes the welcome is genuine and overwhelming; they can't do enough for you etc and their friendliness blossoms. Dont expect this in the shops of course; you are just an interruption to their daily routine. The Spanish have been doing this for centuries and even the EU wont change them.


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Hi it's funny about the service. Just back from a holiday in andalucia/CDS and my husband actually remarked on several occasions how poor the service was. We don't expect 'yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' American- style service but we often had to wait a looong time for drinks/ food or an order to be taken. In one cafe the waiter brought the menu over and failed to come back and take the food order! I tried to get his attention on several occasions but to no avail. Short of shouting '¡Oiga camarero!' I don't know what else I could have done!! Bear in mind I speak Spanish so no real communication problems. Could it be that with the down turn staff have been cut so there are fewer people covering the same work? They are also doing more work for less money and are therefore demotivated? I don't know , but I do think an attitude adjustment is required if they want to keep customers - after all we could go anywhere on holiday!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I never found a problem. Unlike the UK, staff arent *told* to be polite. In the shop where I work, we have flippin' training days on how to be polite FFS!!! (even then its wasted on a few of my colleagues lol!!). I found that when taking the time to smile and be pleasant, it was usually reciprocated. Emotions are generally mirrored in my experience, so someone has to make the first move

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chica escocesa said:


> Hi it's funny about the service. Just back from a holiday in andalucia/CDS and my husband actually remarked on several occasions how poor the service was. We don't expect 'yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' American- style service but we often had to wait a looong time for drinks/ food or an order to be taken. In one cafe the waiter brought the menu over and failed to come back and take the food order! I tried to get his attention on several occasions but to no avail. Short of shouting '¡Oiga camarero!' I don't know what else I could have done!! Bear in mind I speak Spanish so no real communication problems. Could it be that with the down turn staff have been cut so there are fewer people covering the same work? They are also doing more work for less money and are therefore demotivated? I don't know , but I do think an attitude adjustment is required if they want to keep customers - after all we could go anywhere on holiday!


Ah, yes, that is certainly true, especially in busy terrazas you may wait for ages and bizzarely enough trying to pay is sometimes *very* difficult. I was thinking more about shops and companies. I think I'm just used to the bar situation and wrongly or rightly often don't question it; it's just life in Spain...
Having said that, for every bar/ restaurant where I've had to wait or been treated curtly, I've also had excellent service where I have been treated with such professionality and or kindness that I have been amazed


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Irishgirl said:


> Hey,
> Wanted to share my thoughts of living here and also my thoughts on what Ill miss when im leaving!! So after 4 years living here just south of Barcelona, we are moving back to Ireland..... My Hubby has gottena new Job working for an english company. We can stay here in Spain as he will still be travelling with work but we have decided to move home(Ireland).
> The pros far out weight the cons. Leaving the weather is going to be the big thing but family support and having a proper base is the major draw back here to Ireland.
> Ive found living here its hard, firstly the language you really need to speak the language!!! The Bullcrap you have to go through to do anything here, get a mobile, buying a car registering it.. lack of customer service the list goes on.
> ...


Interesting observations made by someone who has actually lived here. I hope people who want to come here take note of things that you've mentioned ie you made friends, your partner was working and even so, it was hard at times.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> What is it with customer service? A lot of people mention it, but I don't think it's bad at all, and in many cases very good. I certainly notice shop assistants who couldn't give a damn in the UK, especially in smaller shops.
> Something more endemic in the south of Spain??


But Irishgirl was in Cataluña!

I think a lot of it depends on the attitude of the customer. I find if you smile, say hello and make eye contact there's rarely a problem. I've only encountered downright rudeness/indifference a couple of times, both were in popular tourist areas.

In the UK they go on training courses to learn how to smile and ask you if you're having a nice day.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> But Irishgirl was in Cataluña!
> 
> I think a lot of it depends on the attitude of the customer. I find if you smile, say hello and make eye contact there's rarely a problem. I've only encountered downright rudeness/indifference a couple of times, both were in popular tourist areas.
> 
> In the UK they go on training courses to learn how to smile and ask you if you're having a nice day.


But I meant that most of the people on the forum who talk about it are living in the south of Spain, or at least that was my impression.
Another thought is that if you don't speak the language very well then chit chat and offers of finding something in another branch, or getting back to you about such and such a product might be more difficult to relay???


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I have lived in western Andalucia on the coast for four years and I enjoy shopping whether in Carrefour or our village. 
Yesterday I took an English guest to buy cigarettes in our local tabac. He was amazed at the fact that not only did I chat with the owner/sles assistant but also with other customers. Then our neighbour came in so we nattered for about five minutes...

When we use Mercadona the staff are always pleasant and chatty.
Their work is made more onerous by the attitude of some of the visitors, French mainly but a few British, who proffer 50 euro notes for two apples and the like, can't even say 'Thankyou' in Spanish and often peer at the produce on sale as if it's alien to them....although it's just an oddly-shaped locally-grown frying pepper....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But I meant that most of the people on the forum who talk about it are living in the south of Spain, or at least that was my impression.
> Another thought is that if you don't speak the language very well then chit chat and offers of finding something in another branch, or getting back to you about such and such a product might be more difficult to relay???


Yes, language and cultural differences might well play a part. I once heard a British couple slagging off bank staff for not explaining that they had to come back and sign a form. They WERE told (I was there!!) but they didn't understand. It's always a good idea to repeat something back to make sure you've got it right, even if it takes a long time.

As for waiting too long in bars and restaurants, staff will often attend the person who shouts "oiga camarero" ahead of the ones sitting quietly waiting to be served. I used to be a typical reserved Brit but these days I have no reservations about doing just that!


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> But Irishgirl was in Cataluña!
> 
> I think a lot of it depends on the attitude of the customer. I find if you smile, say hello and make eye contact there's rarely a problem. I've only encountered downright rudeness/indifference a couple of times, both were in popular tourist areas.
> 
> In the UK they go on training courses to learn how to smile and ask you if you're having a nice day.


I would agree that it sometimes (note - sometimes) depends upon the attitude of the customer as well. I go shopping into our nearest town and try in my naff Spanish to be polite and friendly. In some shops they can be quite friendly and engaging and we share a giggle whilst I murder the Spanish language. In others, they can be downright rude. Saying that, they can be downright rude to Spanish people as well, as friends have commented. There is one supermarket where the staff are rude to guiris, so I simply don`t go there.

I do find it a little worse down on the coast, but I temper that with them having to work long hours, for little pay and having to deal with a considerable amount of numpties, from all countries. I don`t think this is an excuse or makes it acceptable, but those that are clearly rude/indifferent typically don`t get any repeat biz from me. Same applies to any country I`ve been in.

In the UK, one thing that always peeved me was going into a corner shop and having the assistant on the telephone when I`m trying to buy something. I`ve lost count of the number of times that this has happened. Ditto staff chatting and giggling amongst themselves whilst customers wait to be served. I`ve walked out of quite a few shops and taken my biz elsewhere, as I consider this to be the height of bad manners and shows a complete lack of courtesy and customer service.

All in all, customer service can be quite variable, but, from my own experience, this is pretty much the case all over. Having spent a considerable portion of 30 years working all over UK, Europe and beyond, I have witnessed vast discrepancies in customer service. For example, in the north east of England, there is a huge difference between quality of service compared to, say, London. I find customer service in the south east can be so hit and miss, that you become immune to it and simply don`t see it anymore. In New York, I got so irritated by the automatons who`s "have a nice day" clart was so contrived that they might as well been telling you to go f**k yourself, for all the difference it made. Yet, for the most part, customer service in NY and the rest of the US is simply excellent, for the most part genuine and has to be experienced to understand just good it can be. 

For me, the best customer service is in Japan, where they were so completely off the scale compared to other places/nations. It really put a smile on your face and made you feel that they valued your business. Saying that, Japan is also one of the most racist countries I`ve ever worked in/visited, so go figure...

/witter


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Yossa said:


> In the UK, one thing that always peeved me was going into a corner shop and having the assistant on the telephone when I`m trying to buy something. I`ve lost count of the number of times that this has happened. Ditto staff chatting and giggling amongst themselves whilst customers wait to be served. I`ve walked out of quite a few shops and taken my biz elsewhere, as I consider this to be the height of bad manners and shows a complete lack of courtesy and customer service.
> This is what I meant when I was talking about customer service in the UK
> All in all, customer service can be quite variable, but, from my own experience, this is pretty much the case all over. Having spent a considerable portion of 30 years working all over UK, Europe and beyond, I have witnessed vast discrepancies in customer service. For example, in the north east of England, there is a huge difference between quality of service compared to, say, London. I find customer service in the south east can be so hit and miss, that you become immune to it and simply don`t see it anymore. In New York, I got so irritated by the automatons who`s "have a nice day" clart was so contrived that they might as well been telling you to go f**k yourself, for all the difference it made. Yet, for the most part, customer service in NY and the rest of the US is simply excellent, for the most part genuine and has to be experienced to understand just good it can be.
> Yep
> ...


BTW, I'm not saying I don't get bad service here in Spain, of course I do with Orange being number 1 on the list!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> BTW, I'm not saying I don't get bad service here in Spain, of course I do with Orange being number 1 on the list!!


I suggest telecomms companies be expressly excluded from this discussion - otherwise we'll be here all week!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I have lived in western Andalucia on the coast for four years and I enjoy shopping whether in Carrefour or our village.
> Yesterday I took an English guest to buy cigarettes in our local tabac. He was amazed at the fact that not only did I chat with the owner/sles assistant but also with other customers. Then our neighbour came in so we nattered for about five minutes...
> 
> When we use Mercadona the staff are always pleasant and chatty.
> Their work is made more onerous by the attitude of some of the visitors, French mainly but a few British, who proffer 50 euro notes for two apples and the like, can't even say 'Thankyou' in Spanish and often peer at the produce on sale as if it's alien to them....although it's just an oddly-shaped locally-grown frying pepper....


on a fairly recent trip to our local Mercadona with an English woman we were looking at the salad/veg counter, at the salad bags, packed tomatoes, mushrooms & so on - she said to me - you can't eat any of this - it's all out of date - look..............

I have to admit I don't usually bother looking at dates because I usually get the loose stuff - but you can tell it's fresh just by looking at it in any case, and I've never (yet) had anything bad from there

she pulled loads if stuff off the shelves & shoved it in my arms so that I could go complain to someone - I had a quick look at the dates & sure enough, everything had the date from the day before or the day before that :confused2:

_nearly_ went to complain - until I looked closely - the date was _envasado _(packaged) not a sell/use by date at all.................

it did make me wonder though, how many non-spanish speakers think that Mercadona only sell out of date food , and how many go over to an assistant & start complaining loudly in anything but Spanish 


I did explain it to this woman - but I'm not convinced that she believed me.............


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Nowhere beats Thailand for customer service. You feel like you are being pampered like royalty. 

I think it's just as much the waiter/bar man/shop assistant's responsibility to be aware if the customers culture as it is ours to be aware of theirs , especially if it's in an area which receives a lot of foreign visitors. I would think most are aware that British customers aren't going to stand up/shout/wave frantically/generally make a scene to get served! But maybe I'm wrong. 

For the record the cafe wasn't busy apart from myself and hubby there was one other table.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks Irishgirl for posting your experiences.
I'm sorry you have decided to leave, but pleased that you are happy about going home to Ireland.

On the subject of out of date food....
We check all sell by dates (not the envasado - we soon worked that out  ) and have found out of date food on quite a few occasions, but mainly in Carrefour and branches of Dia.
I don't think we have ever found anything out of date in Mercadona.
But this is actually one of the things I have noticed about buying in supermarkets in Spain. It seems that in some establishments, the staff put the new produce in front of the old, rather than taking the time to move the older produce to the front.
Sure, it can happen in the UK too, but not so often and especially not in a large store.

However, on that note, the other day my husband went to buy some ice cream from our village shop and the shop owner took it from him, looked at the date and told him he couldn't have it but to come back the next day and there would be new stock, which there was.
Obviously he had been the only person wanting to buy that particular type of ice cream for months.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Irishgirl said:


> Hey,
> Wanted to share my thoughts of living here and also my thoughts on what Ill miss when im leaving!! So after 4 years living here just south of Barcelona, we are moving back to Ireland..... My Hubby has gottena new Job working for an english company. We can stay here in Spain as he will still be travelling with work but we have decided to move home(Ireland).
> The pros far out weight the cons. Leaving the weather is going to be the big thing but family support and having a proper base is the major draw back here to Ireland.
> Ive found living here its hard, firstly the language you really need to speak the language!!! The Bullcrap you have to go through to do anything here, get a mobile, buying a car registering it.. lack of customer service the list goes on.
> ...


You at least had the adventure of living here and done it the right way. When you felt it was time leave and right for you and your family, you made the choice to leave on a high point, ergo if the situation changes, you will have no reservations about coming back.

WISH YOU WELL


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Irishgirl said:


> Hey,
> Wanted to share my thoughts of living here and also my thoughts on what Ill miss when im leaving!! So after 4 years living here just south of Barcelona, we are moving back to Ireland..... My Hubby has gottena new Job working for an english company. We can stay here in Spain as he will still be travelling with work but we have decided to move home(Ireland).
> The pros far out weight the cons. Leaving the weather is going to be the big thing but family support and having a proper base is the major draw back here to Ireland.
> Ive found living here its hard, firstly the language you really need to speak the language!!! The Bullcrap you have to go through to do anything here, get a mobile, buying a car registering it.. lack of customer service the list goes on.
> ...


Thank you for posting as it is good for folk who are looking to make a move to have balanced opinions like this so that they dont go into life style changes with rose tinted specs on and to help them make sensible judgements. 

Good luck with your move back to Ireland I hope it goes well for you and your hubbie once back there. As you say Spain will still be there for you at the end of a two hour flight.

I've recently come back and was wondering if the poor customer service in restaurants was something to do with the heat, maybe it's harder to be polite to people if you are hot, stressed and dripping. Some evening meals we experieced while having nice food, if I had been required to wait that long for a menu and subsequently food here I simply would have left and no apology when it was brought after an hour and a half wait, how long does it take to saute a bit of calves liver with a bit of bacon & sauce, not 90 mins, good job we were kind of on holiday. 

One guy in a street cafe was funny though when he finally said 'sorry but my boss iz ******* and left me on my own' so maybe there could be mangement issues in some case, like there are the world over. 

It didn't seem so bad in shops and I seemed end up doing an conducting an unofficial survey of chemists lol and they seemed pretty professional, well the pharmacistis did. Mind you I haven't had to take out a mobile contract over there and would need to, but cant see that it would be that hard as you can get one in ten mins here if you know what phone you want & what tarriff.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Lol are there any Gd telecommunications in Spain? Pharmacy workers are normally helpful and polite, I normally get chatting that's breaks the attitude down!


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## NotinUse (Oct 3, 2009)

Irishgirl said:


> Hey,
> Wanted to share my thoughts of living here and also my thoughts on what Ill miss when im leaving!! So after 4 years living here just south of Barcelona, we are moving back to Ireland..... My Hubby has gottena new Job working for an english company. We can stay here in Spain as he will still be travelling with work but we have decided to move home(Ireland).
> The pros far out weight the cons. Leaving the weather is going to be the big thing but family support and having a proper base is the major draw back here to Ireland.
> Ive found living here its hard, firstly the language you really need to speak the language!!! The Bullcrap you have to go through to do anything here, get a mobile, buying a car registering it.. lack of customer service the list goes on.
> ...


Having just returned from the UK and witnessed the wettest June on record, and every day in July up until the 16th it rained I'm pretty sure you will miss the weather.

As for customer service maybe it would be to your liking if all representatives were cloned. I've met miserable sale assistants in Eire, the UK, and Spain. Actually I'm not a lover of France but often travel through it and have to say the assistants in France are top of the list and I only know 10 words of French.

Assistants/Representatives are only human, I've seen how some expats speak to them in English. If like most of us they suffer bad days then the response is going to be negative. Maybe I get a favorable reaction because I know a few words of Spanish but at least my attempting to speak the lingo puts a smile on most of the faces.

As for telephone companies I've never had a problem even telefonica when I asked for a phone disconnection, and for mobile I use Hits and can honestly say again very pleasant and very helpful unlike Vodafone.

I do agree though Spain is going nowhere, and why more Spanish are not rioting with the huge price increases is beyond me, but then the UK is suffering the same, it will never be the UK we all used to know and things there will only get worse for it's native citizens.

Yup I am no longer proud to be British, the place has become a huge dumping ground, and its infrastructure especially the road networks are a joke.

If I left Spain it wouldn't be to return that's for sure.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> on a fairly recent trip to our local Mercadona with an English woman we were looking at the salad/veg counter, at the salad bags, packed tomatoes, mushrooms & so on - she said to me - you can't eat any of this - it's all out of date - look..............
> 
> I have to admit I don't usually bother looking at dates because I usually get the loose stuff - but you can tell it's fresh just by looking at it in any case, and I've never (yet) had anything bad from there
> 
> ...


The 'fresh meat' counter in the Tesco we used in Prague always had meat on sale up to two days past the actual sell-by date. Sometimes the smell of the meat counter made me feel physically sick. 
I've often picked up an onion or piece of fruit only for my fingers to sink in, it was so rotten.
By comparison Spanish grocery/greengrocers shops are like a sterile hospital ward.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Good luck Irishgirl!!!

I've had nothing but good service in shops in Spain (my region anyway) but restaurants are a different kettle of fish (pun intended). I'm used to London restuarants where the service is usually pretty good but there are often long wait times here just to get noticed. Not everywhere of course. I know several excellent, cheap, family run places where the customer is number one and treated as such. In UK the worst shop for me to go into would be a shoeshop on a Saturday. Staffed by sullen schoolgirls who just wnat to huddle in a group and talk about inane stuff amongst themselves, the presence of a customer is always greeted with rolled eyes and an expression which clearly says, you want me to serve you? you want me to get you some shoes? oh ffs don't you see I'm busy chatting with me mates....

As for roads, I watched some of the Olympic torch relay and was harshly reminded that you cannot go down any stretch of public road without being bombarded by sign after sign after sign. You can't turn right, don't go here, slow down, hazzard, hazzard, old people, young people, crossing, don't cross, don't stop, stop, new road layout ahead (usually 10 years old) etc etc etc.

Rant over, going for a dip in the pool before heading off to teach. TTFN


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## Irishgirl (Sep 26, 2008)

Went home for 3 weeks to check out different things.... decided to stay here in spain a bit longer..... rose tinted glasses are off.......


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Irishgirl said:


> Went home for 3 weeks to check out different things.... decided to stay here in spain a bit longer..... rose tinted glasses are off.......


So the grass isn't really greener in the Emerald Isle?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Some friends of my parents decided to head back to Blighty having had enough of the red tape here. They lasted nearly a month. They are back in Spain and have no intention of returning to UK....


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## welshduo (Aug 26, 2012)

thrax said:


> Some friends of my parents decided to head back to Blighty having had enough of the red tape here. They lasted nearly a month. They are back in Spain and have no intention of returning to UK....


Really good to see these last two posts as people keep asking us why we are moving to Spain when it is on it's knees!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

welshduo said:


> Really good to see these last two posts as people keep asking us why we are moving to Spain when it is on it's knees!!


If you dont need to take an income from Spain and have enough to live on, then its great..... once you get that red tape sorted!!! Its no longer quite the relaxing dream, but it is a wonderful place to be

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

welshduo said:


> Really good to see these last two posts as people keep asking us why we are moving to Spain when it is on it's knees!!


that's easy to answer!!

if you have an income it's a great place to live 


it's only if you need to find work that it's rough


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## welshduo (Aug 26, 2012)

jojo said:


> If you dont need to take an income from Spain and have enough to live on, then its great..... once you get that red tape sorted!!! Its no longer quite the relaxing dream, but it is a wonderful place to be
> 
> Jo xxx


Hopefully we have learned a lot in the time I have been looking at this forum so maybe the red tape will be a lot easier. We will be there at the end of the month so let's hope so. Oh well back to packing the boxes, oh joy........


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Red tape?? 

I've already described how we got Residencia and NIE in under an hour without any assistance. WE also got a SEg. Soc. number and health card equally hassle-free.

On Tuesday I went to Trafico in La Linea to get a Spanish driving licence. I had lost my U.K. one which was no real loss as it propelled me into doing something I'd contemplated for a year or so.

I got all the documents needed, including a denuncia and the Certificate from DVLA, went to La Linea and *without waiting * as there were few people in Trafico at 11.30 received the slip of paper needed as proof I've applied for a Spanish licence.

It seems I'll be notified by e-mail within a week or two that I can come and get my provisional licence. After that the full licence will be sent in the post.

Well, we'll see what happens next. But after our horrendous experience of bureaucracy in the Czech Republic, what we've experienced here has been a doddle. 

Maybe we've just been lucky - it's certainly not my stunning looks or mesmerising personality that has 'opened doors' so easily for us. But fair's fair and I can only speak of the helpfulness of every official we've encountered, including the police when we've done things we shouldn't, including parking on yellow lines where the policeman taking my details asked my date of birth, looked me over and said disbelievingly 'No...' and sent us on our way without a fine. I told him he was a gentleman.
I must have looked better than usual that day.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Red tape??
> 
> I've already described how we got Residencia and NIE in under an hour without any assistance. WE also got a SEg. Soc. number and health card equally hassle-free.
> 
> ...


I think your experience of 'red tape' is down to one thing (since you discount your looks & personality) ......research!!

you find out what paperwork you need, make sure you have it (maybe in triplicate), make sure you know where & when to go - & then you're successful!!

if more people did that more people would have the same experience

look at the thread posted this morning about the new health rules - we all, including me, have been saying 'I'll believe it when I see it' - they did their research, took all the right documentation - & now I believe it!!

I know the poster personally, so I know for sure it's true!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I think your experience of 'red tape' is down to one thing (since you discount your looks & personality) ......research!!
> 
> you find out what paperwork you need, make sure you have it (maybe in triplicate), make sure you know where & when to go - & then you're successful!!
> 
> ...


Yes, we researched and this Forum was an enormous help to us.

But speaking Spanish, however badly, helps too. Why should I expect a no-doubt poorly paid clerk in La Linea to be fluent in English.

Whenever I have lived in or spent a lot of time in a foreign country I have learned a few basic phrases before the move, one of them being 'Excuse my mistakes, I don't speak....very well, but I'm trying to learn'.
It has worked wonders for me in severa lcountries. After all, only a very miserable sod would be unpleasant and unhelpful on hearing that, especially if accompanied by a winsome smile.

Being 'mature' and female might help, though....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, we researched and this Forum was an enormous help to us.
> 
> But speaking Spanish, however badly, helps too. Why should I expect a no-doubt poorly paid clerk in La Linea to be fluent in English.
> 
> ...


yes, even just _trying _to speak the language definitely helps

no-one expects all foreigners to be fluent - but to not even _try ...................


_


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> yes, even just _trying _to speak the language definitely helps
> 
> no-one expects all foreigners to be fluent - but to not even _try ...................
> 
> ...




...could be said to be _muy no educato?_


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> ...could be said to be _muy no educato?_


sí - no muy educado


nothing to do with education of course


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

We have always found as long as you are happy to wait you can normally get things sorted My Spanish is far from good, but I alway start with Im sorry my spanish is not good ....... this seems to get things off to a good start and we then muddle on through


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Not sure what is all that about RED TAPE, maybe if you move to another country and don´t know the lingo, things would be difficult, but wherever I go, even if only on holidays, I do like doing a bit of research, where things are, how to get there, etc etc - Me being Spanish I was a bit worried about all the paperwork we had to do in the beginning, but I was kindly surprised how quickly everything was done, from exchanging our driving licences, to NIE, passports, GPs, etc, etc I was so surprised that I even did a few entries on my blog! 

Mark was quite shocked when we went to do my passport and got it in like 10 minutes flat Apparently in UK you have to do a list of things at the Post Office and send it away and then you´ll get it in the post weeks later and seems to be very expensive also?

People in the shops always talk to us, mainly because we make the effort to talk to them first, and at times it can be tricky when we go shopping as we spend 30 mins in every shop with people wanting to chat 

So I can only guess, it is plenty to do with NO speaking the lingo I don´t particularly think Spanish people are rude when they don´t say Thanks or smile, I rather not have that than a really BIG and CHEESY false smile, I can see the difference between a nice friendly smile and one that isn´t 

The other day at the Post Office someone was trying to say something to the assistant IN ENGLISH, the assistant kept saying, I am sorry but i don´t speak English, and she kept repeating the same thing over and over in English, each time a bit louder , eventually I managed to help with the situation, and when I got chatting to that woman outside the Post Office, she said to me that it was shameful that people working in the post office don´t speak English, she just wanted a few stamps for the UK. 

I tried to say that she was actually living in Spain and she was being unreasonable, that I´ve lived in the UK many years and I NEVER ONCE expected anyone to speak Spanish. The worst thing is that, according to her, she was living here since 2004.!!!!

There are good and bad things about Spain .... but also about the UK. Don´t kid yourself. 

PS: There are really lots of moaners on this site, or is it that they only came here to moan about something?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lolito said:


> Not sure what is all that about RED TAPE, maybe if you move to another country and don´t know the lingo, things would be difficult, but wherever I go, even if only on holidays, I do like doing a bit of research, where things are, how to get there, etc etc - Me being Spanish I was a bit worried about all the paperwork we had to do in the beginning, but I was kindly surprised how quickly everything was done, from exchanging our driving licences, to NIE, passports, GPs, etc, etc I was so surprised that I even did a few entries on my blog!
> 
> Mark was quite shocked when we went to do my passport and got it in like 10 minutes flat Apparently in UK you have to do a list of things at the Post Office and send it away and then you´ll get it in the post weeks later and seems to be very expensive also?
> 
> ...


oh stop moaning 

on a FB group I pop into now & then someone asked how to complain about a big company in Spain - I answered 'ask for the libro de reclamaciones'

it transpired that the big complaint was that no-one in the shop spoke English.........

my answer - 'why would they?'

at first a few people stuck up for the OP - who was adamant that in a big store someone *should* speak English... but eventually the tide turned as people realised just how daft that is 

I'm still getting 'likes' on my 'why would they' post a couple of weeks later....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The arrogance and ignorance of some British immigrants is truly breathtaking.
Why should anyone expect a shop assistant or clerk in a government department to speak English in a non-English-speaking country? 
Luckily there are few Brits around here so we don't encounter the kind of ignoramuses Lolito described. All our British friends speak fluent Spanish. 
There are obviously some British immigrants who think that Spain is a British colony and the Mediterranean an English lake...

Sorry, Lolito...we're not all like that. Most of us show respect for the country we've chosen to live in.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Thanks girls! - It is just annoying when some people moan about the most silly thing, maybe they came to Spain and they are so bored, that have nothing better to do than saying rubbish! lol!

I love the UK and UK people, I am married to one! but that has nothing to do with me spending 5 months trying to cancel my Talk Talk landline back in the UK, or 3 months trying to get my money back from 02 mobile, or 7 months trying to get a refund on my TV Licence, etc. etc. Red Tape and ignorants are everywhere in the world.

Yesterday, at the beach, I was on my own reading a book. Suddenly someone approached me and asked me where ´Kiko Park´ was, I tried to explain to them how to get there, but it wasn´t easy. They were elderly, and wanted to get there before dark. The lady seemed very upset. Since it was already getting, I thought I could get up and go with them and make sure they arrive safely, we walked for about 40 mins along the beach, before coming off the beach and went through a few streets untill we arrived, I took them to the main reception. They were extremely grateful, and I was happy and content, although it wasn´t easy walking that far with the bike through the sand! 

Apparently they took a taxi in Gandia, and the taxi dropped them off at another camping miles away from Kiko Park. They had no more money for taxis or something like that, so they walked about 6 miles. They were German. Now, Spanish people might be rude or/and ignorant, but I can guarantee you that if you ever get lost, they will take your hand and take you there themselves, or at least, that is what I have always done.

You try and ask a question to a Londoner in Central London, they look at you like if they´ve seen an allien as in saying ´oh my gosh, someone is actually talking to me!´...and they cross the road! lol!

pah!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Being 'mature' and female might help, though....


and threatening?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> and threatening?


Baldy, you do me an injustice...

I am usually all sweetness and light

If anyone is kind to me I am always thankful and respectful and will reciprocate if I can.
No Spanish person has been unkind or unhelpful to me since I crossed the border on December 1st 2008.

But I have been glad to have been endowed with a sharp tongue since as a gay woman prominent in political and professional life it kept me safe.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lolito said:


> Thanks girls! - It is just annoying when some people moan about the most silly thing, maybe they came to Spain and they are so bored, that have nothing better to do than saying rubbish! lol!
> 
> I love the UK and UK people, I am married to one! but that has nothing to do with me spending 5 months trying to cancel my Talk Talk landline back in the UK, or 3 months trying to get my money back from 02 mobile, or 7 months trying to get a refund on my TV Licence, etc. etc. Red Tape and ignorants are everywhere in the world.
> 
> ...


Once I was driving my LandRover through Ronda and I ended up in a sreet so narrow and cobbled I thought I'd mistakenly driven on to a pedestrian path so I stopped, wondering what to do. It was indeed a thoroughfare and a long line of cars built up behind me. I panicked, thinking the Disco could never squeeze through such a narrow passage.
A young man in the car behind got out and came to help. He told me not to worry, I'd get through, asked where I was heading, got in front of the Disco and led me through the streets of Ronda to the road I needed to get home....
Only in Spain...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I think your experience of 'red tape' is down to one thing (since you discount your looks & personality) ......research!!


It constantly amazes me that in this day and age with computers, the internet and all the other information that is available, the number of people I come across who do absolutely little or no research into their big move. They seem to think that it will be just like hopping on a bus and going to Asda. 

I think their blasé approach partly stems from taking holidays to the costas and finding "a nice caff and bar where there is that nice young Manuel who speaks fairly good English and said I looked only in my early 20s (if only he knew) and they serve fish and chips. The beer's a bit like gnats p*ss but you get used to it..." They go back home two weeks later and think they'll move to Spain and live in "that complex we went to see where they've got flats for sale, the one where there's a swimming pool, tennis court, communal sunbathing area (no foreigners gawping at you) and all the facilities, the flats are quite cheap, if a bit on the small side (less housework) with a lovely sea view..."

How will you get about, when you don't drive? 
"Dunno, we went by taxi from the airport" 
Is there a good bus service? 
"Dunno" 
Trains? 
"Dunno" 
Where will you shop and how will you get your food home? 
"Dunno, I 'spect there'll be a Tescos or Sainsburys not far away so we can get them to deliver. Or we could do as we did when we were on holiday - eat at the caff" 
Will you have enough to live on? 
"Dunno, if not I can always get a part-time job to top up"
You don't speak Spanish apart from asking for a drink and fisho chipso, how will you manage?
"That's no problem they all speak English down there."
Have you done any research into this planned move? 
"Yeah, we watched a couple of programmes on the telly and, let's face it, we've actually been there already!"

What a pity Joyce Grenfell isn't still alive - she could have played that to perfection.

Like I always say, research, research and research again.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

When we moved to Spain last year, we started with a list of things to do, before leaving the UK and another list of things to do when we arrive to Spain, the list kept going on and on and in the end we had 7 pages-long list of things to do.. and I am Spanish! 

We had no problems whatsoever with anything in Spain, as I had written down directions, phone numbers, nearest underground station, etc, etc, so everything went smoothly. 

I would have done the same if we had moved to (say) Bulgaria..... although the language barrier would have been a pain, but there is no way in hell I would relocate to another country without at least doing 2 years of learning Bulgarian at school, at least to have the basis.

I enrolled Mark at Hull´s University, so he could learn the lingo, and after 2 years and a bit of work of my own, he could get by. 

But it is true, that a lot of UK people think in Spain everybody speaks English as it is the main language in the world.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Wow! Something just happened to us this evening.

I will explain. I got bored at home and asked Mark to go down to the beach, to have a stroll and have a coffee. He didn´t want to as he said it looked like raining but I said it had been like that all day and no rain whatsoever.

So we went out, had a coffee and while in the cafetería, the mother of all storms came, it was very scary, the cafetería was closing for the day so we left and stood underneath some low balconies looking for shelter. A few doors down, a woman asked us to come and go inside their garage, they were a retired couple from Madrid that came down to spend the B/H weekend, they were tyding up their garage a bit, we got talking and the rain wouldn´t stop, my! It never rains here, but when it does, it is just very impressive.

Eventually I said to Mark that we should go even if it was raining very hard, as we´d get wet whatever we do.

The couple said ´No way´ and the man got out of the garage to get to his car parked opposite the road, he got totally soaked in the space of 5 seconds, in the middle of torrential rain and took us to our home in the village about 1 mile away. I asked them in for a coffee or something but they politely declined. 

Mark is always shocked how people here get out of their ways to help. As the woman said, ´hoy por tí, mañana por mí´ .. not sure how to translate that!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> It constantly amazes me that in this day and age with computers, the internet and all the other information that is available, the number of people I come across who do absolutely little or no research into their big move. They seem to think that it will be just like hopping on a bus and going to Asda.
> 
> I think their blasé approach partly stems from taking holidays to the costas and finding "a nice caff and bar where there is that nice young Manuel who speaks fairly good English and said I looked only in my early 20s (if only he knew) and they serve fish and chips. The beer's a bit like gnats p*ss but you get used to it..." They go back home two weeks later and think they'll move to Spain and live in "that complex we went to see where they've got flats for sale, the one where there's a swimming pool, tennis court, communal sunbathing area (no foreigners gawping at you) and all the facilities, the flats are quite cheap, if a bit on the small side (less housework) with a lovely sea view..."
> 
> ...


Two tales, one true, the other maybe not...


Child on school trip saw a sign saying Luton and cried'Spain's over there!'

Another teenage student, having been to Spain on holiday, was asked to point it ouy on a world map.
'Dunno', said he.'We went by plane'.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

As someone who is still in the planning phase I am often aghast when i read that people do not research properly. Even if I am going on holiday, I know about the basics, trains, travel etc where ever I have gone on holiday I have learnt the basics of the language Turkish, french and Spanish - Spanish Lessons booked now:clap2:

To move to another country without having file after file of information fills me with fear. 
I ask loads of questions, google, read the papers. Ask the same questions again file away the answers.

The main thing is I expect the country I visit or live in to be well the country I visit or live in..they should speak there own language I should learn theirs.
God off on another ramble now..might change user name to

RAMBLER

ps


I AM SooooooooooooooooooEXCITED:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lolito said:


> Mark is always shocked how people here get out of their ways to help. As the woman said, ´hoy por tí, mañana por mí´ .. not sure how to translate that!


" It's swings and roundabouts, one day I help you, the next day you (or somebody else) helps me" or "What goes around comes around"

My suegra (a city girl for all of her 81 years before coming here to a village) is also constantly amazed whereas I being a country boy born and bred (Oooarr) would never expect otherwise, - country people will invariable help as much as they can in whatever way they can because they know that next time they might need somebody to help them. What is amazing is that your good samaritans were Madrileños!


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## MrSam (Jul 31, 2012)

cambio said:


> As someone who is still in the planning phase I am often aghast when i read that people do not research properly. Even if I am going on holiday, I know about the basics, trains, travel etc where ever I have gone on holiday I have learnt the basics of the language Turkish, french and Spanish - Spanish Lessons booked now:clap2:
> 
> To move to another country without having file after file of information fills me with fear.
> I ask loads of questions, google, read the papers. Ask the same questions again file away the answers.
> ...


I am completely the opposite, especially when I am going on holidays. I don't like to plan ahead or book hotels etc. online. I like to go to a new country completely unprepared and find my way around as I go. It's much more fun. Having said that, I have already done some planning ahead for our trip to Spain/EU in 2014 - the campervan is organised and I know roughly the direction of travel.

Even when I migrated to South Africa (many many centuries ago) I didn't have a clue about the place except a rough idea of it's geography. I didn't even have a job to go to or any idea how to go about finding one. I remember when I eventually found a job I had to walk to work to start with because I couldn't afford the bus fare. If the company didn't have a canteen, I would have starved to death.

So, each to his own. In some ways, I think the internet has destroyed the spontaneity of travel although I do use it myself these days. It has its good and bad points. I think sometimes if you rely too much on the advice or experience of others you would end up staying at home all the time and never go anywhere.

Good luck.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

MrSam said:


> I am completely the opposite, especially when I am going on holidays. I don't like to plan ahead or book hotels etc. online. I like to go to a new country completely unprepared and find my way around as I go. It's much more fun. Having said that, I have already done some planning ahead for our trip to Spain/EU in 2014 - the campervan is organised and I know roughly the direction of travel.
> 
> Even when I migrated to South Africa (many many centuries ago) I didn't have a clue about the place except a rough idea of it's geography. I didn't even have a job to go to or any idea how to go about finding one. I remember when I eventually found a job I had to walk to work to start with because I couldn't afford the bus fare. If the company didn't have a canteen, I would have starved to death.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you on some points.. I do think the spontaneity of travel has gone but then I am a bit of a control bod! I always think of those who pioneered there way to a foreign land long before guide books and the internet what a blind leap of faith they had. Your last line is very apt, we have spent many years thinking thinking and asking people if we should go, We are not asking anymore we are going,
best wishes


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

cambio said:


> As someone who is still in the planning phase I am often aghast when i read that people do not research properly. Even if I am going on holiday, I know about the basics, trains, travel etc where ever I have gone on holiday I have learnt the basics of the language Turkish, french and Spanish - Spanish Lessons booked now:clap2:


There can be problems moving to Spain even with meticulous planning, however, because there have been so many changes to rules and regulations in the past few years. If you chance upon a book or website that is just a couple of years old it can be very misleading. Tax, NIE, residency, healthcare, even driving licenses have different rules and procedures today - and may change again tomorrow!

Then there is the added complication of people on expat forums telling you how they did it - without mentioning that that they did it five years ago ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> There can be problems moving to Spain even with meticulous planning, however, because there have been so many changes to rules and regulations in the past few years. If you chance upon a book or website that is just a couple of years old it can be very misleading. Tax, NIE, residency, healthcare, even driving licenses have different rules and procedures today - and may change again tomorrow!
> 
> Then there is the added complication of people on expat forums telling you how they did it - without mentioning that that they did it five years ago ...


all very true - I think here we manage to keep abreast of changes as much as possible - sometimes we're even ahead of the consulate!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> all very true - I think here we manage to keep abreast of changes as much as possible - sometimes we're even ahead of the consulate!


Totally agree, sometimes 10 people say 10 different things. I just take note of what people say, accept that what they say is based on their experiences and situation, and realise that the only way we are likely to find out the truth as it affects us is going to be after we arrive, and in a very sad masochistic way I am fairly excited by it all!!!!!!!!!!!.


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## Iberican (Feb 18, 2012)

It's similar here in France, smiles and pro-active customer service are rare. Maybe it's the Latin temperament and they just don't like to be in a position they see as subservient. Also, the French don't normally smile at anyone except their friends and others that they know, so regard British and other Anglo-Saxons who don't know them and are still smiling at them as insincere or else as grinning mentally-deficient idiots!
I thought Spain was more open and friendly. Well, I'll find out in a couple of weeks when I arrive.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Bear in mind that as with any other sites, people do come here sometimes to moan about something. Take TripAdvisor for example, if you go away on hols and the hotel is crap and the service is crap, you go to TripAdvisor and do a bad review, but most customers that are satisfied, they don´t think about doing a good review at all. 

I am sure lots of good things happens to expats in Spain and regarding Spanish people but maybe they don´t think they should come here and tell all. It is easier to moan I think! lol! 

Take the comments here with a pinch of salt.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lolito said:


> Bear in mind that as with any other sites, people do come here sometimes to moan about something. Take TripAdvisor for example, if you go away on hols and the hotel is crap and the service is crap, you go to TripAdvisor and do a bad review, but most customers that are satisfied, they don´t think about doing a good review at all.
> 
> I am sure lots of good things happens to expats in Spain and regarding Spanish people but maybe they don´t think they should come here and tell all. It is easier to moan I think! lol!
> 
> Take the comments here with a pinch of salt.


Totally agree...... We were considering France a while back, but after visiting it was not for us..prefer spain...anyway there was a forum that i went on...well to be honest i was hard pressed to find anyone who had anything positive to say... but then in the next breath all they ever said was would not go back to England if you paid me. :confused2::confused2::confused2: End of the day I view forums as a way of
a Making friends
b highlighting possible problems
c reading a wide range of views and opinion

Then make up my own mind. I am of the opinion, be it right or wrong, that the only way we will know the facts about living in Spain as it affects us is when we are actually living in spain.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Cambio is right. If you are coming to Spain for 10 hours, 10 days or 10 years you need to do some kind of planning. 

1. If you have to work to survive, you must find a job. Nearly impossible to do nowadays, but it must be done.

2. If you dont have a job do you have enough money to live.
3. If you get seriously sick do you live within decent access of an airport to get home. If not does your health insurance cover you for everything you need in Spain?
4. You decide to 'wing it' with no preparation. Spain is a graveyard for such people. Mass unemployment, unsympathetic residents, flash floods, scrub fires, public holidays that close everything except the Brit bars, Saint's Day and you dont know when anything will open again - a little overstatement, but I think you know what I mean.

. . . and the first rule of Spain . . . English speaking people leave their brains behind them at the airport . . .


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Leper said:


> Cambio is right. If you are coming to Spain for 10 hours, 10 days or 10 years you need to do some kind of planning.
> 
> 1. If you have to work to survive, you must find a job. Nearly impossible to do nowadays, but it must be done.
> 
> ...


What an extremely ignorant and biased point of view that is completely unworthy of comment. 1. and 2 are correct but 3 and 4 are complete hogwash!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> What an extremely ignorant and biased point of view that is completely unworthy of comment. 1. and 2 are correct but 3 and 4 are complete hogwash!


I think that comment must be tongue-in-cheek, Baldy....

3 and 4 seem very pertinent, as are 1 and 2.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I think that comment must be tongue-in-cheek, Baldy....
> 
> 3 and 4 seem very pertinent, as are 1 and 2.


I disagree.

_3. If you get seriously sick do you live within decent access of an airport to get home. If not does your health insurance cover you for everything you need in Spain?_

Absolute rubbish - healthcare here is Spain is excellent and far better than you will get in UK - as a heart patient who recently had a heart attack I know what I am talking about! This is aided in no small measure by the computerisation of Medical Records. In UK they're so scared that Big Brother or somebody else will know that they once had a boil on the backside that all attempts at giving a health service half as good as in Spain is impossible. In hospitals here infection and cross-infection rates are almost zero, unlike in UK. If your healthcare insurance isn't good enough - that's your fault for not picking more wisely, nothing to do with Spain.

_4. You decide to 'wing it' with no preparation. Spain is a graveyard for such people. Mass unemployment, unsympathetic residents, flash floods, scrub fires, public holidays that close everything except the Brit bars, Saint's Day and you dont know when anything will open again - a little overstatement, but I think you know what I mean._

First minor sentence is correct - it fits with the OP's afterthought. 

Unemployment is high but it is in UK, too. 
"Unsympathetic residents" Where? If you mean the ones that object to ignorant immigrants trying to tell them their country is sh*t and try to treat the Spaniards as ignorant peasants? If so then that is the pot calling the kettle black! 
Flash floods, scrub fires? Have you been in contact with any news media at all and heard about all the flooding and other natural disasters in UK and elsewhere? 
Public holidays including Saints' days here are just that, public holidays (as they are in France, Italy The Netherlands, Denmark - can't vouch for any others)! The staff need a break too also Sunday and holidays are for the family to be together and for them to respect their religious beliefs. The same applies here as it does in much of Europe - this isn't the UK or USA where consumerism is king and the shops must sell, sell, sell or the whole economy goes bust. Many if not most supermarkets are open until 9 or 10 at night on Saturday, if you can't plan your shopping within the normal opening hours, then that is your incapability - not Spain's


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> I disagree.
> 
> _3. If you get seriously sick do you live within decent access of an airport to get home. If not does your health insurance cover you for everything you need in Spain?_
> 
> ...



So it's not "completely unworthy of comment" ?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> I disagree.
> 
> _3. If you get seriously sick do you live within decent access of an airport to get home. If not does your health insurance cover you for everything you need in Spain?_
> 
> ...


liking you..................and i have to agree:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Danny&Claire said:


> So it's not "completely unworthy of comment" ?


It was and I was merely responding to somebody who disagreed with me


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I disagree.
> 
> _3. If you get seriously sick do you live within decent access of an airport to get home. If not does your health insurance cover you for everything you need in Spain?_
> 
> ...


Agreed, Spanish health care is better than that in the UK, in my experience and that of people I know anyway.
But not everyone, especially elderly people, feel comfortable being treated in Spanish hospitals. They may not be sufficiently fluent in Spanish. And yes, we all know that people coming to live in Spain should learn Spanish. I've said that many many times. But until a law is passed stating learn Spanish or don't come to Spain, people have the* right* not to speak the language. Neither you nor I might like this but there are no rules for how to live your life in Spain. There are 'shoulds' but no 'musts'.
The fact that your healthcare insurance 'isn't good enough' may have more to do with your financial situation than bad choice. Again, I agree....no-one should come to Spain on a shoe-string. But that's yet another 'should', not a 'must'.

Unemployment in the UK is considerably lower than in Spain, both percentage-wise and in terms of absolute numbers. Employment has actually edged up in the UK. recently. Yes, they are probably low-paid crap temporary jobs.....but a job's a job and low wages for family earners are supplemented by what many would see as an over-generous benefit system.

Unsympathetic residents.....Solwriter and her husband might have views on that topic. We've found Spanish people almost without exception to be friendly, warm and welcoming. If I were asked what I like most about Spain I'd say 'The Spanish'. But as in all countries there are thoroughly unpleasant people here...ignorant, cruel, prejudiced. Corruptio and gender violence aren't pleasant and of course they occur elsewhere but we can't pretend they are not problems in Spain.

Flash floods and fires....I can't see why anyone should view these as a major obstacle to living in Spain...but you simply cannot compare to similar natural catastrophes in the UK. 
If you're worried about floods and fires, think carefully before you choose a place to live is surely the best advice.

I think there should be more public holidays. There is a much better work-life balance in Spain and in continental Europe than in the UK. I couldn't give a toss if shops are closed foour days a week - I'd plan my shopping for the three days they were open.

My point, Baldy, is that methinks thou dost protest too much. We have our ways of living in Spain and others have quite different ways. There are no objective standards by which to judge, only our own subjective views. Sobre los gustos, as the wise Spanish saying goes.

I love living in Spain. We intended to move on to France after a few years here but I'll end my days in my little village. It didn't take me long to realise how good life is for us here. 
But I don't think it right to impose my way of living here on others or to publicly condemn them, whatever I may think or say privately. I used to...but living here has made me more laid-back and tolerant.

Spain isn't utopia. It isn't faultless because it is inhabited by *people* and people have this irritating habit of being less than perfect.
It's not like me to be the voice of moderation and I usually agree with everything you post but this time I think you were a tad OTT.

Still love yer though


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Like you mrypg9 I was staggered by Baldy's response as by his own admission he lives in a little Spanish backwater. Nothing like generalising is there. '_Spanish health care is better than that in the UK_ So he has one good experience which negates everybody elses experience. Like everything else it depends on where in the country you live and what was/is wrong with you. I have had nothing but excellent treatment from the NHS and the nursing was next to none. ' _In hospitals here infection and cross-infection rates are almost zero' _ - total rubbish and based on opinion/ If you would care to look at the EARSS website you will see that Spain is one of the highest in the EU for some of the HAI's.

'_Unemployment is high but it is in UK, too_' - again the two are not comparable. There is even some doubt whether the figures that Spain gives are accurate due to the black economy. 

'_Unsympathetic residents_' Obviously never come across functionarios. or doesn't it count if they are objectionable to all not just immigrants?

'_Flash floods, scrub fires_' - you forget to add - and earthquakes. The reason that incidents of this are shown on UK TV is because it is excepotional. Hardly gets a mention on Spanish TV unless they are serious. Just an excerpt from the latest report : At least 10 people, three of them children, died after torrential rain triggered flash floods across a swath of southern Spain and another 35 were injured when a tornado swept through a fairground, knocking down a ferris wheel. The heavy rains in parts of the south follow months of drought and high temperatures across Spain which triggered dozens of wildfires. The flooding disrupted high-speed train service between Madrid and Valencia and regional lines, while bridges and roads became impassible. Two motorways were closed and a plane heading for Málaga was diverted to Seville.. Not really comparable. 

No-one minds someone justifiying a decision that they have taken in the past and are now probably stuck with but is there really a need to continually go on trying to justify it even if it's based on opinion and not facts?


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Let's agree to differ. We are talking about planning for living or holidaying in Spain. We are not arguing on the rights and wrongs of General Franco, we are talking about simple planning. Prevention is always better than cure.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> Like you mrypg9 I was staggered by Baldy's response as by his own admission he lives in a little Spanish backwater. Nothing like generalising is there. '_Spanish health care is better than that in the UK_ So he has one good experience which negates everybody elses experience. Like everything else it depends on where in the country you live and what was/is wrong with you. I have had nothing but excellent treatment from the NHS and the nursing was next to none. ' _In hospitals here infection and cross-infection rates are almost zero' _ - total rubbish and based on opinion/ If you would care to look at the EARSS website you will see that Spain is one of the highest in the EU for some of the HAI's.
> 
> '_Unemployment is high but it is in UK, too_' - again the two are not comparable. There is even some doubt whether the figures that Spain gives are accurate due to the black economy.
> 
> ...


Yes, what you have posted is true.

Actually I can't compare Spanish healthcare and the NHS because I was lucky in that I have spent not one single night in a NHS or any hospital and rarely visited a GP whilst in the UK. But in my limited experience Spanish health care in my little area is first-class.

We've created our own little backwater in our village and we have met and made friends with some really lovely Spaniards. But I'm aware that Spain has more than its fair share of murderers, wife-beaters and ignorant prejudiced people, especially as is often the case in most countries in rural areas. A gay man I know who lives in an inland village near Jimena has experienced appalling physical and verbal abuse from Spanish residents of his village. Of course that happens in the U.K. and elsewhere but it proves the point that Spanish people are just as capable as Brits, Czechs or Germans of being intolerant to the point of brutality.

I get annoyed when ignorant people write off the Costas as 'not the 'real Spain'. That's absolute tosh. But enjoying a beach lifestyle, whilst not my choice, is as far as I know not against the law and it's a choice shared by very many Spaniards.
I don't like city living -unless it's in a penthouse on Fifth Avenue in New York City - but equally I like to be withi easy reach of good shops and other facilities.

To repeat what I've often said.....there is no one way to live in Spain. We choose what suits us...and why not? 

Since living here, I've gradually learned to be more accepting of differences and the very many irritations of life. Spain has lowered my blood pressure and may have added a few years to my life.

On trips eastward I've come across Brits I find obnoxious ...but they would have been equally obnoxious in Blackpool or Berlin, never mind Benalmadena. 
You simply avoid....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The thing is, Penal Transportation ended about 150 years ago. Anybody who ends up here must have done so voluntarily. If they don't like it - go back from whence they came and stop making themselves unpopular. Their approach to life reflects badly on the rest of us!


Any ideas what one does with 25 kg of Granadas? They arrived just as we were having lunch carried between two sturdy señoras.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Any ideas what one does with 25 kg of Granadas? They arrived just as we were having lunch carried between two sturdy señoras.


Keep them to throw at any unwanted visitors who stray across your path? 

I had enough problems disposing of two of them last week. Not worth the effort!

.
.
.
.


(PS to the uninitiated they are pomegranates, which in Spanish share the same name as hand grenades!)


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Keep them to throw at any unwanted visitors who stray across your path?
> 
> I had enough problems disposing of two of them last week. Not worth the effort!
> 
> ...


Trouble is I can't find the pin to pull before I throw it!

Seriously - these are really delicious, our neighbours don't often give us rubbish.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Trouble is I can't find the pin to pull before I throw it!
> 
> Seriously - these are really delicious, our neighbours don't often give us rubbish.


Homemade Grenadine Syrup Recipe


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Keep them to throw at any unwanted visitors who stray across your path?
> 
> *I had enough problems disposing of two of them last week. Not worth the effort!*
> 
> (PS to the uninitiated they are pomegranates, which in Spanish share the same name as hand grenades!)


Disposing of two? pomegranates or unwanted visitors?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> The thing is, Penal Transportation ended about 150 years ago. Anybody who ends up here must have done so voluntarily. If they don't like it - go back from whence they came and stop making themselves unpopular. Their approach to life reflects badly on the rest of us!
> 
> 
> Any ideas what one does with 25 kg of Granadas? They arrived just as we were having lunch carried between two sturdy señoras.


I have ideas...unprintable in a family newspaper, as they say.

My new-found tolerance and tranquility clearly has reached its limit for today, where some folk are concerned.

You do get some odd people working for animal charities as I said last week and also added..no comments please!

We have been promised walnuts....many walnuts...very many walnuts...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I have ideas...unprintable in a family newspaper, as they say.
> 
> My new-found tolerance and tranquility clearly has reached its limit for today, where some folk are concerned.
> 
> ...


Yes a lot of those who work for and with animal charities are nuts!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Disposing of two? pomegranates or unwanted visitors?


Doh ... pomegranates of course. Too much hard work to get to the tasty bits.

My LIKE button has stopped working!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> My LIKE button has stopped working!


Yes, so has mine?? I'll ask the boss why?? I know he's been updating the forum over the weekend....

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Yes a lot of those who work for and with animal charities are nuts!



Yesterday was not a good day....fights, fatalities then just on closing time a whole bunch of dogs arrived at the perrera....



However, as Scarlett O'Hara memorably said'Tomorrow is another day...'


Only we golden oldies will recognise that line, Baldy


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Doh ... pomegranates of course. Too much hard work to get to the tasty bits.
> 
> My LIKE button has stopped working!


Don't hit the button - hit the work 'Like' it has an underline and is therefore the link!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> don't hit the button - hit the work 'like' it has an underline and is therefore the link!


Major GUI flaw!!


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