# Re-entry in the US after 13 months abroad



## klaminero (Aug 2, 2011)

Hello,

I obtained a green card through employment in 2009. I have since married a US Citizen and had a US born daughter.
In 2014, and for family reasons, I left to return to my home country (part of the EU) without any idea of the duration of that stay. I did not have the time to get a reentry permit at the time. I have since returned to the US for several short stays and never had issues at immigration (longest exit time was 9 months). I exited the US the last time on March 1st 2016.

I will be travelling back to the US on March 30th with my wife and daughter and am wondering how to handle my passage through immigration.

My wife and I have retained familty ties in the US, have bank accounts in several financial institutions and are current on US taxes.

I do not wish to relinquish permanent residency if at all possible as we are potentially moving back very soon.

Here are my questions:
- Is there a chance, based upon the facts layed out above, and with any physical proof I may bring with me, that I am allowed to enter with my green card?
- What will happen if I am denied entry with my green card? Based on my findings, I would be asked by the immigration officer to sign a document stating that I relinquish voluntarily my permanent residency and if I refuse to sign said document, I will be allowed entry and be convocated to appear in front of an immigration judge to state my case.
Is that true?
- Do I risk being completely denied entry?
Asking for an ESTA would be like admitting abandonment of PRS so I really do not know what is the best course of action.

All of this seems rather silly given my strong family ties to the US....


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

So you have effectively lived on and off in the US since 2014.

Once cannot give a definitive answer regarding what will happen at the immigration control.

Personally, I would be very surprised if you got through without at least some questioning.

Having been away for over a year, yes, the official, could presume that you have abandoned your green card/permanent status in the US. You might have to go via an immigration judge to prove otherwise.

It would help your case if you had proof of good reasons why you stayed away for so long ie. medical reasons, death in the family etc.

I don't think you have strong family ties to the US if you have been living all this time abroad.


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## klaminero (Aug 2, 2011)

Thank you for your answer.
To correct your post, I have visited the US several times but my tax residence since mid 2014 has been in France. Each US trip (there was three, this coming one will make four) was about 2 weeks in duration.

I am married to a US citizen and father of a US born daughter. Her side of the family lives in the United states. That is what I referred to as strong family ties.

I moved for family reasons at first without knowing if the move would be temporary or permanent. I cannot justify of family death or illness or anything that has forcefully kept me from coming back to live in the US other than uncertainty.

Also i am clearly returning for a temporary trip.


If I take my chance with the CBP officer and he isnt convinced, I have read he will offer me the choice between signing form I-407 and appearing in fron of a judge. The latter is impossible for me given the short stay. If I choose the former, will I still be accepted in the US, based on a non-immigrant entry, with my french passport and NO esta?

Thank you


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Possibly ....... it has been known for the Immigration Official to allow temporary entry to the US in return for the immigrant to sign an I-407. Not very ethical I will admit but it has been known.

You corrected my earlier post by saying that you have only _visited_ the US since 2014. Does this mean you do not have a main residence in the US?

While you think that this is all very silly seeing how you have relatives in the US, the Green card is issued for people to live in the US for a high percentage of the time. You clearly have not done so, and your next return, again for a short time, confirms that your situation is not going to change.

I think you should have your fingers crossed when you are at Immigration.


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## klaminero (Aug 2, 2011)

That is correct. I do not rent, lease or own a home in the US. We stay with family when we go.

I totally agree with you on me not satisfying the green card requirements. I have worked very hard to get it and I understand what it is about. However, the abandonment rules are all subjective and thus very hard to understand making it difficult to act accordingly.
My comment about silly had no negative intent and it seems that's how it came across.

As I said we're considering moving back in the next 6-12 months based upon several personal factors.

My priority is to be admitted into the US. If I can do so and keep my green card then that would be much better and avoid me the hassle of applying again at a later date. What I do not want, under any circumstances is impair my chances to get a green card in the future which is why I would choose to sign 407 if asked to.
So what I'm trying to figure out is my best course of action.
You're saying that authorized entry based on signing 407 is more an exception than a rule and should not be counted upon?
I thank you again for your help


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I know someone who was in a similar situation. Married to an American who worked for an international NGO in Europe. They had teen aged children, all of whom were US citizens. She traveled back and forth on her Green Card for several years - until she was caught out, admitted that one last time very grudgingly, and instructed that she would need to obtain a new visa and green card if and when she wanted to move back to the US. (And would have to use ESTA and all that goes with that for future visits to the US.)

The "challenge" at the moment is that, for whatever reasons, the border control in the US is getting more and more stringent lately and frankly, you're more and more likely to be stopped, detained and just generally given a very hard time. If and when that happens, you're back to square one again no matter what.

You've been lucky up to now. But if you decide to chance it on this trip, be prepared just in case you're stopped and questioned. Chances are, they'll ultimately let you enter - after a good "talking to" - but that they will very likely pull your Green Card. Your wife will have to sponsor you again when you want to move back to the US in any event, so perhaps it will be best to start preparing for that eventuality now rather than later.
Cheers,
Bev


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## klaminero (Aug 2, 2011)

Hello Bev! It's nice to see you here. You've been very helpful in the past in the French immigration forum and I thank you for that.

I'm trying to talk to an immigration lawyer but in the mean time I'm trying to get as much information as possible.
Indeed I've been lucky so far. What's difficult is to gauge what to do now. If a CBP officer decides to stop green card entry and issue me an nta in front of a judge,I don't believe I would have any more chance convincing the judge of non abandonment, and being placed in removal proceedings seems way more detrimental than having to apply for the green card again at a later time if we decide to move back.
This is why right now I'm leaning towards one of the two solutions:
- Trying to enter with GC. If the cbpo decides I abandoned lpr status and offers me the I407, I would then sign it. I would choose this solution only if I can be sure to be granted a tourist entry after signing 407. Someone earlier said they think this would not happen and I'd like to understand why.
- requesting esta thus admitting abandonment before the trip and avoiding the risk albeit while having to go through the trouble time and money to apply again for GC should we immigrate back.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

From what you've said so far, it sounds like you are stuck with the time and money to re-apply for a GC if and when you decide to move back. (That certainly was the case with the person I knew.) And with the current "shift" in attitude regarding visitors and immigrants to the US, I wouldn't just assume they'll let you off with a rap on the knuckles like they have done in the past.

But, up to you.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Your plans have some flaws.

Requesting ESTA and as you see it abandoning your GC does not make it and what is attached to it go away. For a clean slate and a potential new GC application you have to officially surrender it and also finalize your standing with the IRS.

Nobody can tell you if signing 407 at point of entry will get you in or on a plane. No immigration attorney or forum or "been there". 

Should it come to a hearing by an immigration judge it will generally be the next day depending on your arrival time and on location. You will not enter the US.


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## klaminero (Aug 2, 2011)

twostep said:


> Your plans have some flaws.
> 
> Requesting ESTA and as you see it abandoning your GC does not make it and what is attached to it go away. For a clean slate and a potential new GC application you have to officially surrender it and also finalize your standing with the IRS.
> 
> ...


Hello and thank you for your answer.



twostep said:


> Requesting ESTA and as you see it abandoning your GC does not make it and what is attached to it go away. For a clean slate and a potential new GC application you have to officially surrender it and also finalize your standing with the IRS.
> .


I understand that. I would be bringing an filled out I-407 form with me to the CBPO. I assume the IRS can be dealt with at a later time.




twostep said:


> Nobody can tell you if signing 407 at point of entry will get you in or on a plane. No immigration attorney or forum or "been there".


Do you mean to say its fully at the CBPO's discretion whether after signing I-407 he lets you enter or not?
If we remove ESTA from the equation, I should technically be able to enter the US at any time (within reason obviously) on a tourist visa. If I relinquish the GC at the CBPO I dont understand why I would not be let in. (Not saying you're wrong, I just want to understand...)



twostep said:


> Should it come to a hearing by an immigration judge it will generally be the next day depending on your arrival time and on location. You will not enter the US.


Thats pretty grim...
So you stay on international parts of the airport overnight and wait for the hearing??


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

klaminero said:


> Hello and thank you for your answer.
> 
> 
> I understand that. I would be bringing an filled out I-407 form with me to the CBPO. I assume the IRS can be dealt with at a later time.
> ...


The gamble is all yours. It may work. It may not work. 

With GC you cannot file ESTA or apply for B1/2. 

There are worse accommodations then waiting rooms to spend a night.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Here is my take, based on discussions with our immigration lawyer, discussions with lawyers who have been fighting Trump's Muslim ban, and other sources.

If the immigration officer is not happy he will likely try to blackmail you into signing an I-407. If you do that, you will have a clean future when it comes to applying for other visas or another green card, but you will be sent home immediately as you would not be in possession of a valid visa. With a green card, you can't apply for a valid visa. 

If you do not agree to be blackmailed, you will go before an immigration judge. In many ports, you will spend the night in gaol, and will be taken there in handcuffs. However, the judge is far more likely to listen to your story, and give you a more pleasant outcome than the immigration office. It might well be temporary entry followed by forfeiture of your green card. The appalling treatment of immigrants and visitors at the time of Muslim Ban I has had the effect that immigration judges are more sympathetic, not less so.

Good luck!


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## cirrus (Aug 2, 2014)

I have had three 5 & 6 month periods of absence, never had a problem until fairly recently when I entered at Atlanta, GA. The border control guy was pretty unpleasant even after I gave a good excuse (IMO). He typed out a load of stuff, presumably ammo for the next time I return. I didn’t want to further enrage him by telling him I was going to surrender my GC soon.
To be fair, I don’t think all BC guys are like this, it’s just Atlanta which I consider a pretty user unfriendly place in all aspects.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

cirrus said:


> I have had three 5 & 6 month periods of absence, never had a problem until fairly recently when I entered at Atlanta, GA. The border control guy was pretty unpleasant even after I gave a good excuse (IMO). He typed out a load of stuff, presumably ammo for the next time I return. I didn’t want to further enrage him by telling him I was going to surrender my GC soon.
> To be fair, I don’t think all BC guys are like this, it’s just Atlanta which I consider a pretty user unfriendly place in all aspects.


What was your "IMO" good excuse?


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## cirrus (Aug 2, 2014)

twostep said:


> What was your "IMO" good excuse?


Trying to sell my house in Europe and seeing my ageing family.


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## cirrus (Aug 2, 2014)

Could not edit my post? but to add: the journey I made (not UK) was difficult and expensive, hence the long stay and I think any reasonable BC agent would normally be satisfied given the full circumstances I stated, of which I do not want to detail here.


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## klaminero (Aug 2, 2011)

Bellthorpe said:


> but you will be sent home immediately as you would not be in possession of a valid visa.


Hello and thank you for you answer.
This right there is the part I dont understand. I am a French national. My country is thus part of the Visa Waiver Program. So I should not need a visa to enter the US. I should only need a valid French passport and ESTA which is a travel authorization, not a visa.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

klaminero said:


> Hello and thank you for you answer.
> This right there is the part I dont understand. I am a French national. My country is thus part of the Visa Waiver Program. So I should not need a visa to enter the US. I should only need a valid French passport and ESTA which is a travel authorization, not a visa.


No, you don't need a visa - you just need ESTA


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

klaminero said:


> Hello and thank you for you answer.
> This right there is the part I dont understand. I am a French national. My country is thus part of the Visa Waiver Program. So I should not need a visa to enter the US. I should only need a valid French passport and ESTA which is a travel authorization, not a visa.


Again - while you hold a Green Card you cannot apply for ESTA. Should you relinquish your Green Card at point of entry you have no ESTA. You do not enter the US. You are not eligible to travel under ESTA as you have been returned (there is a term but I cannot think of it right now - refusal of entry or something like that). You need B1/B2.


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## cirrus (Aug 2, 2014)

twostep said:


> Again - while you hold a Green Card you cannot apply for ESTA. Should you relinquish your Green Card at point of* entry* you have no ESTA. You do not enter the US. You are not eligible to travel under ESTA as you have been returned (there is a term but I cannot think of it right now - refusal of entry or something like that). You need B1/B2.


 Normal practice I would have though is to relinquish the GC at the point of *exit *or after.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

cirrus said:


> Trying to sell my house in Europe and seeing my ageing family.


These are purely personal reasons. Re-entry permit is always an option.


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## cirrus (Aug 2, 2014)

twostep said:


> These are purely personal reasons. Re-entry permit is always an option.


Yes I know that but you asked _‘What was *your* "IMO" good excuse?_ See post #15


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## d3thmark (Mar 24, 2017)

i m hoping to get some info as my wife goin after 9 months


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