# paying social security !help!



## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

hi,
ill keep it short and sweet, me and my family are moving to las americas tenerife next year opening our own milkshake bar, we have 2 kids aged between 14 weeks and 2 years old, so my wife will be a full time mum and home maker i no i have to pay 250 per month for social security what happens to my wife do i pay in for her? i take it the kids are covered being of there age, any help would be a weight of my already breaking back lol.

regards marc and a pre thansk all x


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

marcspain said:


> hi,
> ill keep it short and sweet, me and my family are moving to las americas tenerife next year opening our own milkshake bar, we have 2 kids aged between 14 weeks and 2 years old, so my wife will be a full time mum and home maker i no i have to pay 250 per month for social security what happens to my wife do i pay in for her? i take it the kids are covered being of there age, any help would be a weight of my already breaking back lol.
> 
> regards marc and a pre thansk all x


if you are paying 'autónomo' which I presume is what you mean by the 250€ a month (it might be more than that, it might be less) then your family (including your wife) are covered as your dependents - when you sign up for it make sure they are listed

as it is a business with premises there might be a better way of dealing with this though - some friends of mine with a bar recently changed how they deal with persoanl & business tax & insurance on the advice of their accountant & they are saving money - totally legally


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> if you are paying 'autónomo' which I presume is what you mean by the 250€ a month (it might be more than that, it might be less) then your family (including your wife) are covered as your dependents - when you sign up for it make sure they are listed
> 
> as it is a business with premises there might be a better way of dealing with this though - some friends of mine with a bar recently changed how they deal with persoanl & business tax & insurance on the advice of their accountant & they are saving money - totally legally


Can you give any more detail on that xabiachica?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Can you give any more detail on that xabiachica?


I was rather hoping you'd know more!!


I'll ask them when I see them

the way I understood it when they told me, there are two methods of paying business tax & so on

1 - based on area & tables -a fixed payment - obviously good in boom times

2 - based on actual income - obviously better at times like these

I _think_ they are employees rather than autónomo, too


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> if you are paying 'autónomo' which I presume is what you mean by the 250€ a month (it might be more than that, it might be less) then your family (including your wife) are covered as your dependents - when you sign up for it make sure they are listed
> 
> as it is a business with premises there might be a better way of dealing with this though - some friends of mine with a bar recently changed how they deal with persoanl & business tax & insurance on the advice of their accountant & they are saving money - totally legally


HI,
many thanks yes would be great if you could see your friends for me "sorry", so is it income based only i though it was a flat 250 euro pm? your help is brill we thank you so much.

regards marc x


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

*hello*



jimenato said:


> Can you give any more detail on that xabiachica?


hi there,
are you in your own business over there if so any tips on saving money would be greatly recieved , im fairly new to this as everyone once was were going next year so im at the stage now of looking what i have to do, many thanks.
regards marc


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

marcspain said:


> HI,
> many thanks yes would be great if you could see your friends for me "sorry", so is it income based only i though it was a flat 250 euro pm? your help is brill we thank you so much.
> 
> regards marc x


As far as I am aware the autonomo payment is fixed - mine is over 270 Euros per month. It's a lot of money as you have to pay it whether you work or not. It is one reason that there is so much black work here. I know of dozens of people who build, paint, teach languages and all sorts who would love to be legal and would in the UK but it just ain't worth it here.

I did have a builder mate who was legal in the good times - he's not any more. He paid top whack autonomo same as me and a fixed amount of tax per month which saved him having to do lots of paperwork. I would be interested to see if that's applicable to the bar/restaurant trade.


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

*what A mess!!*



jimenato said:


> As far as I am aware the autonomo payment is fixed - mine is over 270 Euros per month. It's a lot of money as you have to pay it whether you work or not. It is one reason that there is so much black work here. I know of dozens of people who build, paint, teach languages and all sorts who would love to be legal and would in the UK but it just ain't worth it here.
> 
> I did have a builder mate who was legal in the good times - he's not any more. He paid top whack autonomo same as me and a fixed amount of tax per month which saved him having to do lots of paperwork. I would be interested to see if that's applicable to the bar/restaurant trade.


hi,
thanks for that without sounding stupid as i am new to all this ,could you pm and let me no the norm of ducking and diving shall we say  we want this move so bad and ive 2 babys to feed, and to loose 270 euros pm well
many thanks marc


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

marcspain said:


> hi,
> thanks for that without sounding stupid as i am new to all this ,could you pm and let me no the norm of ducking and diving shall we say  we want this move so bad and ive 2 babys to feed, and to loose 270 euros pm well
> many thanks marc


the autónomo payment varies by age afaik - the nearer you are to retirement when you start paying, the more you pay - you're partly paying towards your pension, so I suppose that sort of makes sense



the chances of you being able to 'duck n dive' when you are working out of premises is just about zero


apart from being illegal..............................


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

marcspain said:


> hi,
> thanks for that without sounding stupid as i am new to all this ,could you pm and let me no the norm of ducking and diving shall we say  we want this move so bad and ive 2 babys to feed, and to loose 270 euros pm well
> many thanks marc


There is no ducking or diving! Spain is a very harsh country, if you dont pay in you dont get out, simple! There is no child allowance, no benefits. You wont get free health care unless you pay into the system by way of autonomo. The only way you can play the system is to understand it and maybe get a Gestoria to help you

Jo xx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Can you give any more detail on that xabiachica?


they were really busy last night & this morning when I went in - I'll have to get them on a quiet day

if they are lucky that won't be til at least september


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> There is no ducking or diving! Spain is a very harsh country, if you dont pay in you dont get out, simple! There is no child allowance, no benefits. You wont get free health care unless you pay into the system by way of autonomo. The only way you can play the system is to understand it and maybe get a Gestoria to help you
> 
> Jo xx


oh yeah - that too - or a proper employment contract which means you are paying tax & insurance


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

jojo said:


> There is no ducking or diving! Spain is a very harsh country, if you dont pay in you dont get out, simple! There is no child allowance, no benefits. You wont get free health care unless you pay into the system by way of autonomo. The only way you can play the system is to understand it and maybe get a Gestoria to help you
> 
> Jo xx


hi jojo,
iv never been dishonest in my life i guess i was seeing how the others tick, iv enough cash to cover us otherwise i would not risk moving. But i thank you all for your comments.
regards marc


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok Marc, What I would suggest is that you open a bar or similar in the UK first. Get an idea of how it works. Do you have knowledge of the self employment system in the uK???? Well all of that is easier in the UK - much easier. Also you'll have financial safety nets in the UK and you'll understand the system and the language. Its worth remembering that in Spain, no one will help you financially to feed your two babies if you dont succeed.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but Spain or its Islands IS NOT the easy option, its different and difficult and you're on your own

Jo xxx


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> they were really busy last night & this morning when I went in - I'll have to get them on a quiet day
> 
> if they are lucky that won't be til at least september


hi,
thanks for your help we intend to do all the right legal requirments just nosey i am lol.
regards marc


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

marcspain said:


> hi,
> thanks for your help we intend to do all the right legal requirments just nosey i am lol.
> regards marc


a good gestor is the best person to help you

they know all the ins & outs, tax, licences - everything - it is my friend's gestor who sorts everything out for them


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

jojo said:


> Ok Marc, What I would suggest is that you open a bar or similar in the UK first. Get an idea of how it works. Do you have knowledge of the self employment system in the uK???? Well all of that is easier in the UK - much easier. Also you'll have financial safety nets in the UK and you'll understand the system and the language. Its worth remembering that in Spain, no one will help you financially to feed your two babies if you dont succeed.
> 
> Sorry if that sounds harsh, but Spain or its Islands IS NOT the easy option, its different and difficult and you're on your own
> 
> Jo xxx


hi,
yes i ran my own business for 20 years thanks jojo, and i have enough cash not to work for a number or years, like i say i was just 1,stunned at paying money out when theres people broke, 2, just being nosey to how other people tick.
regards marc


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> a good gestor is the best person to help you
> 
> they know all the ins & outs, tax, licences - everything - it is my friend's gestor who sorts everything out for them


hi,
yes we spoke to a gestor yesterday were coming out soon this year for the 3rd time and have meetings set up, but any info tips all very helpfull.
thanks marc


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

As mentioned by others, if you're running a bar you have to pay autonomo - simple as that. The other people I mentioned are very much 'casual' and could possibly lie if questioned and say they were 'not working, just helping a friend out'. Not a comfortable existence but an extraordinary number of people do it. 

I believe that the authorities are beginning to clamp down on the black market - the best way for them to get more revenue IMO would be cut the autonomo payment to a sensible level.


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## marcspain (Mar 30, 2010)

jimenato said:


> As mentioned by others, if you're running a bar you have to pay autonomo - simple as that. The other people I mentioned are very much 'casual' and could possibly lie if questioned and say they were 'not working, just helping a friend out'. Not a comfortable existence but an extraordinary number of people do it.
> 
> I believe that the authorities are beginning to clamp down on the black market - the best way for them to get more revenue IMO would be cut the autonomo payment to a sensible level.


hola,
yes true they need to look at things more simply lol, many thanks for advice will keep fingers crossed and work hard and see the out come, ill need builders to kit the shop out once im there.
regards marc.


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I was rather hoping you'd know more!!
> 
> 
> I'll ask them when I see them
> ...


Hi,
I think you are confusing two different issues here. Social security is one thing and tax another. It is much cheaper to pay autónomo than to pay for an employee. Tax on a small o medium sized business (pyme) can be paid in two different ways: estimación directa (where you pay according to your expenses and income) much more practical unless you have a large income or by módulos which takes into account different concepts according to the business (kilowatts, number of seats, size of establishment, employees, bar length, vehicle, etc) you can check all this out on one of the hacienda forms on the internet and the tax you pay for each módulo is in the handbook.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

anles said:


> Hi,
> I think you are confusing two different issues here. Social security is one thing and tax another. It is much cheaper to pay autónomo than to pay for an employee. Tax on a small o medium sized business (pyme) can be paid in two different ways: estimación directa (where you pay according to your expenses and income) much more practical unless you have a large income or by módulos which takes into account different concepts according to the business (kilowatts, number of seats, size of establishment, employees, bar length, vehicle, etc) you can check all this out on one of the hacienda forms on the internet and the tax you pay for each módulo is in the handbook.


that makes it clearer, thanks

like I said, it was just what they had mentioned to me one day a while back

I think they must have changed from_ módulos_ to _estimación directa_ - it has saved them a lot of money when averaged out over the year


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