# work prospects for a builder?



## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi i am a uk builder moving to spain in october and will be actively seeking work in spain, i have never done this before and am apprehensive at my prospects.
Ive been a self employed builder in the uk for 25 years with a multi skill set.
my name is Guy i currrently live in nottingham, i am 44 years old, single kids have grown up and have their own lives now, so the time has come to broaden my horizons and explore the world.
If anybody has some advice for me it would be welcomed
Thanks in advance 
Guy Collins


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> Hi i am a uk builder moving to spain in october and will be actively seeking work in spain, i have never done this before and am apprehensive at my prospects.
> Ive been a self employed builder in the uk for 25 years with a multi skill set.
> my name is Guy i currrently live in nottingham, i am 44 years old, single kids have grown up and have their own lives now, so the time has come to broaden my horizons and explore the world.
> If anybody has some advice for me it would be welcomed
> ...


The building industry is dead in Spain - still lots of half built, fully built empty unsellable properties, and many, many unemployed builders - who, interestingly are finding work in the UK. 

So dont burn your UK bridges and see it all as an adventure. and remember that if you stay in Spain for more than 90 days, you will need to become a resident and to do that you will need to prove you have an income and health cover

Jo xxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> Hi i am a uk builder moving to spain in october and will be actively seeking work in spain, i have never done this before and am apprehensive at my prospects.
> Ive been a self employed builder in the uk for 25 years with a multi skill set.
> my name is Guy i currrently live in nottingham, i am 44 years old, single kids have grown up and have their own lives now, so the time has come to broaden my horizons and explore the world.
> If anybody has some advice for me it would be welcomed
> ...


You havn't said where abouts in Spain you are going to.No disrespect to you but Spain is a bloody big country.If you are thinking of the Costa del Sol it's highly unlikely that you will find work here especially being a newbie.I have quite a few friends,Spanish and English,who are builders who have not worked in a long,long time and in the last couple of years there are more Uk bulders gone back than come out.Also I would say you will need Spanish under your belt for your builders merchants,ferreterias and building supplies.Twenty years ago when me and the other half came to live here jobs were two a penny for new builds,reforms and general maintenance.I am just thankful we came to Spain when we did as I would not like the daunting prostect now of coming here and finding work.Sorry to sound negative but I will tell it as it is and I know a few people if they have a bit of work done they will use Spanish so they can put food on the table.In hindsight if you go for it I sincerely wish you the best of luck as it woud help other people who are thinking of coming.The way things are what you have to ask yourself at the end of the day what have you got to offer that all the hundreds of unemployed builders and labourers.In reality nothing.It's a great country to live in but not to find work.I am just thankful now I am retired and can enjoy my life here.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> Hi i am a uk builder moving to spain in october and will be actively seeking work in spain, i have never done this before and am apprehensive at my prospects.
> Ive been a self employed builder in the uk for 25 years with a multi skill set.
> my name is Guy i currrently live in nottingham, i am 44 years old, single kids have grown up and have their own lives now, so the time has come to broaden my horizons and explore the world.
> If anybody has some advice for me it would be welcomed
> ...



Hi,

Have you actually now decided on Spain as you recently posted (on the French forum) that you were actually going to be staying there for 6 months?

If you are coming to Spain - where abouts. Certainly we'd all like to know if we are to take advantage of the fact that you'll be coming with a van.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you actually now decided on Spain as you recently posted (on the French forum) that you were actually going to be staying there for 6 months?
> 
> If you are coming to Spain - where abouts. Certainly we'd all like to know if we are to take advantage of the fact that you'll be coming with a van.


I'm spending 12 months travelling through europe on a kind of working holiday hoping to acquire small bits of work to supplement my travel, accommodation isn't a problem as i am driving with camper van, its more of a mid life crisis going on my travels figure it out when i get there, i just want to know what sort of work to look for as my skill set isn't restricted to building work.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

soulboy said:


> You havn't said where abouts in Spain you are going to.No disrespect to you but Spain is a bloody big country.If you are thinking of the Costa del Sol it's highly unlikely that you will find work here especially being a newbie.I have quite a few friends,Spanish and English,who are builders who have not worked in a long,long time and in the last couple of years there are more Uk bulders gone back than come out.Also I would say you will need Spanish under your belt for your builders merchants,ferreterias and building supplies.Twenty years ago when me and the other half came to live here jobs were two a penny for new builds,reforms and general maintenance.I am just thankful we came to Spain when we did as I would not like the daunting prostect now of coming here and finding work.Sorry to sound negative but I will tell it as it is and I know a few people if they have a bit of work done they will use Spanish so they can put food on the table.In hindsight if you go for it I sincerely wish you the best of luck as it woud help other people who are thinking of coming.The way things are what you have to ask yourself at the end of the day what have you got to offer that all the hundreds of unemployed builders and labourers.In reality nothing.It's a great country to live in but not to find work.I am just thankful now I am retired and can enjoy my life here.


I thank you for your comments and maybe i should have been clearer i have sold up here in uk for a travel experience i speak french & spanish, enoughto get me by. I was merely enquiring on what the work situation is like in spain as this will be my final destination over my 12 month travel


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

There has been a Spanish person posting recently who seems to think where there's a will there's a way, butut I've also heard on the radio today that Spain is the country where salaries have gone down the most, and yesterday we heard that unemployment was up. 
This graph (which showa unemployment linked to each president's mandate) also shows how there has been a high number of unemployed for a long time in Spain.
El mercado laboral en agosto | Media | EL PAÍS

What others have told you is true and the construction industry is precisely the most affected.
However, if it's just you and you want to give it a try, why not? You might get lucky, or you might not.,


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> I'm spending 12 months travelling through europe on a kind of working holiday hoping to acquire small bits of work to supplement my travel, accommodation isn't a problem as i am driving with camper van, its more of a mid life crisis going on my travels figure it out when i get there, i just want to know what sort of work to look for as my skill set isn't restricted to building work.


I understand - I'd do the same if I could lol!! But sadly, there really isnt much work at all in spain and you have to be careful of the time you spend in european countries in case you need to see a doctor - over 90 days, and your EHIC card isnt valid as you wont be a tourist, but a resident

Jo xxx


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

jojo said:


> I understand - I'd do the same if I could lol!! But sadly, there really isnt much work at all in spain and you have to be careful of the time you spend in european countries in case you need to see a doctor - over 90 days, and your EHIC card isnt valid as you wont be a tourist, but a resident
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks im a healthy person rarely get ill and haven't been to a doctors in 3 years, never been admitted to hospital either but i understand that there maybe other reasons to be seen by a doctor, but by jumping from country to country that negates the problem with the EHIC card doesnt it/


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Surely he would need to register as self employed. bit hard if you're touring around!
How could he legally do "bits of work" unless he was taken on on short contracts in each country?
Regarding health, if he had an accident, requiring expatriation to the UK, a EHIC wouldn't be much use.
I don't think he has thought it through.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you actually now decided on Spain as you recently posted (on the French forum) that you were actually going to be staying there for 6 months?
> 
> If you are coming to Spain - where abouts. Certainly we'd all like to know if we are to take advantage of the fact that you'll be coming with a van.


Also from my research i stand a much better chance of gaining work through france and germany which would leave spain for relaxing in the sunshine, thats my theory anyway


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

extranjero said:


> Surely he would need to register as self employed. bit hard if you're touring around!
> How could he legally do "bits of work" unless he was taken on on short contracts in each country?
> Regarding health, if he had an accident, requiring expatriation to the UK, a EHIC wouldn't be much use.
> I don't think he has thought it through.


Very true and if he had an accident at work.....??? 
jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Well this has come up before on the forum, hasn't it, and there just doesn't seem to be a way to do it legally, which silly really IMO.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Surely he would need to register as self employed. bit hard if you're touring around!
> How could he legally do "bits of work" unless he was taken on on short contracts in each country?
> Regarding health, if he had an accident, requiring expatriation to the UK, a EHIC wouldn't be much use.
> I don't think he has thought it through.


I don't think you people on here understand what i am doing, i have sold up in uk, money isn't the issue but i would like to work to supplement my travel through europe and as a european i am entitled to work where and how i wish within the EU as regards to being removed to uk in an emergency that is fine my family in the uk would be able to take care of that, all i want to know is the work situation, why do people think they need to advise me on my legal position i do not understand, i am travelling through europe spending a couple of months at each destination in a camper van i have the money necessary to do this and i would like to work on my way, this is perfectly legal within the EU


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> I don't think you people on here understand what i am doing, i have sold up in uk, money isn't the issue but i would like to work to supplement my travel through europe and as a european i am entitled to work where and how i wish within the EU as regards to being removed to uk in an emergency that is fine my family in the uk would be able to take care of that, all i want to know is the work situation, why do people think they need to advise me on my legal position i do not understand, i am travelling through europe spending a couple of months at each destination in a camper van i have the money necessary to do this and i would like to work on my way, this is perfectly legal within the EU


Unfortunately, what is NOT legal, is to work for a couple of months here-and-there with no contract or without being self-employed.

In Spain, and to an extent, in France, getting a contract for a short period is almost impossible. To be self-employed will cost you money to set up. It will then cost you SS payments each month.


How I suspect you hope to work is 'cash-in-hand' - which is, of course, illegal.

As previously stated, *LEGAL* construction work will be almost impossible to get in Spain. You may be able to get the odd job, but this would be working illegally.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Surely he would need to register as self employed. bit hard if you're touring around!
> How could he legally do "bits of work" unless he was taken on on short contracts in each country?
> Regarding health, if he had an accident, requiring expatriation to the UK, a EHIC wouldn't be much use.
> I don't think he has thought it through.


 rules for self employment from uk

EEA nationals: going to work in another EEA country or Switzerland for a period not expected to exceed 24 months
There are special rules for workers who go to another EEA country or Switzerland to work there for a maximum of 24 months. These rules are mainly contained in European Community Regulations 883/2004, 987/2009 and Decision No A2 of the Administrative Commission of the European Communities on Social Security for Migrant Workers. For the majority of EEA countries these rules have been in operation from 1 May 2010. For Switzerland they have operated since 1 April 2012, for Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein they have operated since 1 June 2012, and for Croatia they have operated from 1 July 2013.

Under these rules a person who is normally self-employed in the UK, who pursues a similar activity in another Member State continues to be subject to UK contributions legislation only, for up to 24 months, providing the work abroad is not expected to last more than 24 months at the outset.

Certain other conditions have to be met. The main ones are that the person has to:

habitually carry out substantial activities in the UK
pursue the self-employed activity in the UK (generally for at least two months) before going abroad
maintain the means in the UK to carry out the self-employment when they return
Examples of maintaining the means to carry on the self-employment could be retaining the use of office space or the infrastructure needed to pursue activity on return such as paying social security contributions and taxes, having a VAT number and registration with the chamber of commerce or professional bodies. This is only intended to serve as a guide, given that different types of work and professions will produce different indicators.

HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is also likely to ask you for details of contracts and work carried on in the UK and those contracts carried on abroad to consider whether you habitually carry on substantial activities in the UK. If less than 25 per cent of turnover or contracts are carried on in the UK, then HMRC would not usually consider that substantial.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> I don't think you people on here understand what i am doing, i have sold up in uk, money isn't the issue but i would like to work to supplement my travel through europe and as a european i am entitled to work where and how i wish within the EU as regards to being removed to uk in an emergency that is fine my family in the uk would be able to take care of that, all i want to know is the work situation, why do people think they need to advise me on my legal position i do not understand, i am travelling through europe spending a couple of months at each destination in a camper van i have the money necessary to do this and i would like to work on my way, this is perfectly legal within the EU


There is little work in Europe, your legal position, like anyone else's, in any European country is that you need to register and be accountable - so as long as you do that and are lucky enough to find work then fine

Jo xxx


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Guy1969 said:


> I don't think you people on here understand what i am doing, i have sold up in uk, money isn't the issue but i would like to work to supplement my travel through europe and as a european i am entitled to work where and how i wish within the EU as regards to being removed to uk in an emergency that is fine my family in the uk would be able to take care of that, all i want to know is the work situation, why do people think they need to advise me on my legal position i do not understand, i am travelling through europe spending a couple of months at each destination in a camper van i have the money necessary to do this and i would like to work on my way, this is perfectly legal within the EU


Because your legal position is relevant.
It may sound nice to up sticks and do what you like, but it's not that simple.
If you were flown back to the UK following an accident , via medical team, are you willing to stump up the 10,000 or so euros required? What if it happens while you are working on the black, your employer will not have you insured.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Unfortunately, what is NOT legal, is to work for a couple of months here-and-there with no contract or without being self-employed.
> 
> In Spain, and to an extent, in France, getting a contract for a short period is almost impossible. To be self-employed will cost you money to set up. It will then cost you SS payments each month.
> 
> ...


Again wrong read the form i have completed to allow this

EEA nationals: going to work in another EEA country or Switzerland for a period not expected to exceed 24 months
There are special rules for workers who go to another EEA country or Switzerland to work there for a maximum of 24 months. These rules are mainly contained in European Community Regulations 883/2004, 987/2009 and Decision No A2 of the Administrative Commission of the European Communities on Social Security for Migrant Workers. For the majority of EEA countries these rules have been in operation from 1 May 2010. For Switzerland they have operated since 1 April 2012, for Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein they have operated since 1 June 2012, and for Croatia they have operated from 1 July 2013.

Under these rules a person who is normally self-employed in the UK, who pursues a similar activity in another Member State continues to be subject to UK contributions legislation only, for up to 24 months, providing the work abroad is not expected to last more than 24 months at the outset.

Certain other conditions have to be met. The main ones are that the person has to:

habitually carry out substantial activities in the UK
pursue the self-employed activity in the UK (generally for at least two months) before going abroad
maintain the means in the UK to carry out the self-employment when they return
Examples of maintaining the means to carry on the self-employment could be retaining the use of office space or the infrastructure needed to pursue activity on return such as paying social security contributions and taxes, having a VAT number and registration with the chamber of commerce or professional bodies. This is only intended to serve as a guide, given that different types of work and professions will produce different indicators.

HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is also likely to ask you for details of contracts and work carried on in the UK and those contracts carried on abroad to consider whether you habitually carry on substantial activities in the UK. If less than 25 per cent of turnover or contracts are carried on in the UK, then HMRC would not usually consider that substantial.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Unfortunately, what is NOT legal, is to work for a couple of months here-and-there with no contract or without being self-employed.
> 
> In Spain, and to an extent, in France, getting a contract for a short period is almost impossible. To be self-employed will cost you money to set up. It will then cost you SS payments each month.
> 
> ...


So please do not accuse me of doing illegal work until you understand the law


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Because your legal position is relevant.
> It may sound nice to up sticks and do what you like, but it's not that simple.
> If you were flown back to the UK following an accident , via medical team, are you willing to stump up the 10,000 or so euros required? What if it happens while you are working on the black, your employer will not have you insured.


You people on here are just ignorant to the law and the outset of my plan i am fully insured for such eventuality i am not a criminal and stop accusing me of doing illegal things do you research before you post replies of this nature


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Guy1969 said:


> Again wrong read the form i have completed to allow this
> 
> EEA nationals: going to work in another EEA country or Switzerland for a period not expected to exceed 24 months
> There are special rules for workers who go to another EEA country or Switzerland to work there for a maximum of 24 months. These rules are mainly contained in European Community Regulations 883/2004, 987/2009 and Decision No A2 of the Administrative Commission of the European Communities on Social Security for Migrant Workers. For the majority of EEA countries these rules have been in operation from 1 May 2010. For Switzerland they have operated since 1 April 2012, for Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein they have operated since 1 June 2012, and for Croatia they have operated from 1 July 2013.
> ...


that might cover you in the UK - but it doesn't cover your situation in Spain.....

all we are trying to do is advise you of potential problems you might come across

if you are in Spain more than 90 days the Spanish govt requires that you register as resident - you have to show that you have finds or an income to support you & healthcare provision - that's the law in SPAIN

if you come to the attention of the authorities for any reason you could be fined - they would then be looking at other things - once you're here 90 days you are resident even if you haven't registered - residents of Spain can't legally drive a foreign plated vehicle - more fines


if you're caught working on the black - more fines

it's up to you though.............


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> that might cover you in the UK - but it doesn't cover your situation in Spain.....
> 
> all we are trying to do is advise you of potential problems you might come across


Yes it does spain is an EEA country which allows me to do this


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Guy1969 said:


> Yes it does spain is an EEA country which allows me to do this



the EU rules allow you freedom of movement & a right to work


they don't allow you to ignore the local laws

read the rest of my post 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...457-work-prospects-builder-3.html#post5127465


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well this has come up before on the forum, hasn't it, and there just doesn't seem to be a way to do it legally, which silly really IMO.


yes it does seem silly - but it's the same in all the EU countries - the 90 day thing comes up over & again, in every country


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Try getting a Plumber, Builder, Electrician here, seven years ago I asked an electrician to do the wiring for an electric cooker, said he would attend shortly, well seven years later he's still not arrived, and now won't even look us in the eye. A chap who works for the red cross did the job.

We later found another to do the odd job, he has now left to work in Germany, they pay more.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> yes it does seem silly - but it's the same in all the EU countries - the 90 day thing comes up over & again, in every country


90 days is for people who reside or intend to reside habitually, this person will arrive in a camper van, presumably to tour the country, initially with no intention to reside habitually, in my view he therefor does not need to register but should perhaps obtain a certificate of none resident.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Hepa said:


> 90 days is for people who reside or intend to reside habitually, this person will arrive in a camper van, presumably to tour the country, initially with no intention to reside habitually, in my view he therefor does not need to register but should perhaps obtain a certificate of none resident.


'fraid not. 

If he doesn't register within 90 days, then he is deemed resident anyway and has now broken the rules. A consequence of breaking the rules is that he may be fined.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Why didn't we all think of driving around Europe in a camper van, stopping where we feel like it, doing the odd bit of work here and there, cash in hand, no tax paid.....

Seems it's easy enough to do....or am I missing something?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> Try getting a Plumber, Builder, Electrician here, seven years ago I asked an electrician to do the wiring for an electric cooker, said he would attend shortly, well seven years later he's still not arrived, and now won't even look us in the eye. A chap who works for the red cross did the job.
> 
> We later found another to do the odd job, he has now left to work in Germany, they pay more.


You'd get one here for 5 euros an hour....or less.

Maybe the fact that construction has come to a halt and official unemployment figures stand at around 34% round here has something to do with that.

Amazing how people from the UK seem unaware of how things are in many parts of Spain.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> Again wrong read the form i have completed to allow this
> 
> EEA nationals: going to work in another EEA country or Switzerland for a period not expected to exceed 24 months
> There are special rules for workers who go to another EEA country or Switzerland to work there for a maximum of 24 months. These rules are mainly contained in European Community Regulations 883/2004, 987/2009 and Decision No A2 of the Administrative Commission of the European Communities on Social Security for Migrant Workers. For the majority of EEA countries these rules have been in operation from 1 May 2010. For Switzerland they have operated since 1 April 2012, for Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein they have operated since 1 June 2012, and for Croatia they have operated from 1 July 2013.
> ...



... so what CONTRACT are you carrying on in Spain from UK?

It keeps talking about contracts - to get a contract in Spain is almost impossible, as I said!


Also, as it says above, it states 'certain other conditions have to be met'. I suspect that this includes following local laws like have to be registered self-employed in Spain.


I agree it's a minefield, we are only trying to point out what could happen to you if you break the law (as it is decided by the police here).

If you choose to do what you believe is correct without taking legal advice (and not just interpreting ambiguous statements like the one above), then that is entirely for your conscience.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hepa said:


> 90 days is for people who reside or intend to reside habitually, this person will arrive in a camper van, presumably to tour the country, initially with no intention to reside habitually, in my view he therefor does not need to register but should perhaps obtain a certificate of none resident.


Thank you at last a member who understands and speaks sense, so far on here i have been accused of intending to work illegally and i am travelling throughout europe not heading to reside in spain my work will be limited t maybe 2 weeks in different places throughout europe not just spain, otherwise i wont be able to travel anywhere i have already checked the legal requirements and filled out necessary forms, so all i wished to know from my original post was what the building market was like in spain and whether there was much work, then i was bombarded with all this other rubbish i didn't ask for, but you sir have read and understood what my intentions are. thank you a voice of reason


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> 90 days is for people who reside or intend to reside habitually, this person will arrive in a camper van, presumably to tour the country, initially with no intention to reside habitually, in my view he therefor does not need to register but should perhaps obtain a certificate of none resident.


not quite - the law is that anyone planning to stay longer than 90 days is obliged to register - it's EU law - some countries choose not to invoke it, but Spain does


the certificate of non-residence is a tax issue - totally seperate


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Guy1969 said:


> Thank you at last a member who understands and speaks sense, so far on here i have been accused of intending to work illegally and i am travelling throughout europe not heading to reside in spain my work will be limited t maybe 2 weeks in different places throughout europe not just spain, otherwise i wont be able to travel anywhere i have already checked the legal requirements and filled out necessary forms, so all i wished to know from my original post was what the building market was like in spain and whether there was much work, then i was bombarded with all this other rubbish i didn't ask for, but you sir have read and understood what my intentions are. thank you a voice of reason


except that Hepa's opinion is just that - an opinion

& his interpretation is incorrect


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Guy1969 said:


> Thank you at last a member who understands and speaks sense, so far on here i have been accused of intending to work illegally and i am travelling throughout europe not heading to reside in spain my work will be limited t maybe 2 weeks in different places throughout europe not just spain, otherwise i wont be able to travel anywhere i have already checked the legal requirements and filled out necessary forms, so all i wished to know from my original post was what the building market was like in spain and whether there was much work, then i was bombarded with all this other rubbish i didn't ask for, but you sir have read and understood what my intentions are. thank you a voice of reason


You seem to be misunderstanding the 90 day rule. You stated you intend to work in Spain. So coming for 90 days as a tourist is different from coming for 90 days or fewer and intending to work which is what you said you intend to do.
If you work in Spain you need to be either autonomo or you need a temporary or permanent contract. Any other work will be illegal. 
It seems as if you want to fund your travels by picking up odd jobs here and there across Europe without being self-employed in the countries you are working in or having a contract.. 
Can you show us the EU law which says you can do that?


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> except that Hepa's opinion is just that - an opinion
> 
> & his interpretation is incorrect


Again if you can read read the posts i am not sdtaying in one place for 90 days i am moving in a camper van the law allows me to do this witghin the eu as long as i stick to the criteria set out in the application with HMRC im not RESIDING anywhere, I am Not working for CASH in hand and i am not a criminal so go away


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Guy1969 said:


> Again if you can read read the posts i am not sdtaying in one place for 90 days i am moving in a camper van the law allows me to do this witghin the eu as long as i stick to the criteria set out in the application with HMRC im not RESIDING anywhere, I am Not working for CASH in hand and i am not a criminal so go away


it has nothing to do with HMRC......

are you not planning to stay in Spain for 90+ days ?

and are you not planning to work?

if you can get contracted work then great - but as we said when you first asked - that's highly unlikely


no-one is saying that you are a criminal - just that there are legal issues with what you originally said you wanted to do


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Guy1969 said:


> Again if you can read read the posts i am not sdtaying in one place for 90 days i am moving in a camper van the law allows me to do this witghin the eu as long as i stick to the criteria set out in the application with HMRC im not RESIDING anywhere, I am Not working for CASH in hand and i am not a criminal so go away


To whom will you be paying tax for this work you hope you will do? 
I agree, you are not a criminal. But like the people who have parked their campervans on our unspoilt beach, hanging out washing and generally spoiling the view, you want to travel as cheaply as possible. Never mind that you are hoping to take very casual work from needy locals.
You want to live off Spain, France etc. which is understandable I suppose. You came on this Forum asking for advice and didn't like what you were told. 
We live here. We can't go away.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> it has nothing to do with HMRC......
> 
> are you not planning to stay in Spain for 90+ days ?
> 
> ...


First of all the form to allow me to work as a self employed person for short periods of time is on hmrc web site, again if you had read the posts no i am not staying in spain for 90 days yes if i can get a contract i will work, no mention of black market work was ever mentioned until you piped up so yes you have accused me of working illegally which i have never intended to do, as i can fund the whole trip if needs be from sale of property in uk, i am travelling in a camper van all through europe not just spain, i merely wanted to know the construction industry situation in spain. has that made it clear now?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The OP wrote:

*Hi i am a uk builder moving to spain in october and will be actively seeking work in spain*


There isn't any in the construction industry. Millions of unemployed brickies, plasterers, gofers and people 'willing to do anything' in Spain.
There's the answer to your question.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Guy1969 said:


> First of all the form to allow me to work as a self employed person for short periods of time is on hmrc web site, again if you had read the posts no i am not staying in spain for 90 days yes if i can get a contract i will work, no mention of black market work was ever mentioned until you piped up so yes you have accused me of working illegally which i have never intended to do, as i can fund the whole trip if needs be from sale of property in uk, i am travelling in a camper van all through europe not just spain, i merely wanted to know the construction industry situation in spain. has that made it clear now?


cool 

have a lovely holiday


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> To whom will you be paying tax for this work you hope you will do?
> I agree, you are not a criminal. But like the people who have parked their campervans on our unspoilt beach, hanging out washing and generally spoiling the view, you want to travel as cheaply as possible. Never mind that you are hoping to take very casual work from needy locals.
> You want to live off Spain, France etc. which is understandable I suppose. You came on this Forum asking for advice and didn't like what you were told.
> We live here. We can't go away.


I pay the spanish government who else but the tax is deducted directly from the pay my national insurance i have to pay to uk, i don't intend to park on your unspoilt beaches full of over weight english expats looking like beached whales i intend to climb mountains go for walks see the country, not sit on a computer giving crap advice to people who do not require it, i intend to stay at designated spots, and if i took casual work from needy locals, what is going on here have the brits got all the work, NO we are one country we are in the EU the locals can do exactly what i wish to do if they want. The advice i asked for isn't the advice i received it was slanderous advice acusational advice, not one member asked me how i intended to do this or had i thought about the legal implications, they just started with a barrage of 90 days black market blah blah blah, you people on here think because you live there you know the lot, well the truth is you are not good adviser but home sick brits who desperately need to keep in touch with the uk through some forum.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Guy1969 said:


> Thank you at last a member who understands and speaks sense, so far on here i have been accused of intending to work illegally and i am travelling throughout europe not heading to reside in spain my work will be limited t maybe 2 weeks in different places throughout europe not just spain, otherwise i wont be able to travel anywhere i have already checked the legal requirements and filled out necessary forms, so all i wished to know from my original post was what the building market was like in spain and whether there was much work, then i was bombarded with all this other rubbish i didn't ask for, but you sir have read and understood what my intentions are. thank you a voice of reason


Guy,Hepa does not even live in Spain he lives in the good old sunny Canaries so he is clueless as to what is going on.Please acccept my appologies for posting on your thread but know alls like you are two a penny in Spain and I have certainly come across a few in the years i have live hear.There is one thing for sure,at least you won't affect my enjoyable lifestyle here.


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## Guy1969 (Aug 30, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> The OP wrote:
> 
> *Hi i am a uk builder moving to spain in october and will be actively seeking work in spain*
> 
> ...


Thats all i needed to know and now i can adjust my travel accordingly and plan my final 90 days relaxing and exploring spain with the intention of returning to my mundane life back here in the uk. I am a traveller trying to have an adventure thats all, i don't want to settle abroad but wish to travel abroad and eventually return to my family don't need to be berated by those already in spain and feeling bitter because they cant leave.
Thank You and i hope the work recovers for you soon


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> except that Hepa's opinion is just that - an opinion
> 
> & his interpretation is incorrect



Not until it has been tested in a court of law. I cannot find any reference that it has been. In fact I wonder if the law is even enforced??


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Guy1969 said:


> Thats all i needed to know and now i can adjust my travel accordingly and plan my final 90 days relaxing and exploring spain with the intention of returning to my mundane life back here in the uk. I am a traveller trying to have an adventure thats all, i don't want to settle abroad but wish to travel abroad and eventually return to my family don't need to be berated by those already in spain and feeling bitter because they cant leave.
> Thank You and i hope the work recovers for you soon


I don't need to work and I won't be returning to the UK. No way do I wish to leave. I left the UK permanently to see Europe almost ten years ago and spent a very happy three years in Prague before I came here. It seems you are bitter because we are here and you are not.
Not all Brits who live in Spain spend their time on the beach, you know.....most of us speak Spanish and are happily settled within their local communities, some on the coast, some inland, as you will see if you ever get here.

I can understand you wanting to travel, it's fun, but you have to understand that the EU is not a free for all where everyone can do as they like.
Perhaps if you manage to leave the UK and see a bit of Europe you will come to understand that.

If as you now say you merely intend to travel, then there's no problem whatsoever as long as you observe the laws relating to time spent in one country. But you didn't make yourself clear in your OP.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Not until it has been tested in a court of law. I cannot find any reference that it has been. In fact I wonder if the law is even enforced??



it might not be on your little island - but it certainly is here, inasmach as I personally know people who have had visits from the Guardia in my town & given a week or two to either get registered as resident or *prove* that they don't live in Spain

also to deregister from the padrón if they don't live here - or get registered on it if they do

the police stop people who are dropping their kids off at school - they are told to get their foreign plated cars rematriculated pdq or lose them

& so on

businesses up & down the coast have been raided & closed down if it's found that their staff don't have contracts

El Hierro is nothing like the peninsular, it seems


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> it might not be on your little island - but it certainly is here, inasmach as I personally know people who have had visits from the Guardia in my town & given a week or two to either get registered as resident or *prove* that they don't live in Spain
> 
> also to deregister from the padrón if they don't live here - or get registered on it if they do
> 
> ...


A visit from the Guardia is one thing, but for you to say my interpretation is incorrect and yours is right, can only be decided by a court of law. A resident is one that resides habitually, a test would have to be made on the interpretation of the word habitually, can a traveller be a habitual resident, can one that comes and goes with the swallows, be an habitual resident.

You are right El Hierro is not at all like a peninsular, it is in fact an island


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