# Farming and other questions



## newlifeinmx (Mar 27, 2010)

My family is seriously considering moving to Mexico and this is a start to educating myself with as much info as possible. 

My husband is a Mexican national however has been in the US for the past 30 years. One son in law is also a Mexican national in the US past 11 years. Both have legal residents in US. 

A couple major question we need to know to know that it is even possibly for us to move to Mexico. We want to relocate to the state of Guanajuato. 


We are thinking we could purchase a farm in a Ranch. Any one here with information about farming in Guanajuato? 

Also regarding having adult children 3 of which would also relocate with my husband and myself. Do children of Mexican nationals have any given immigration status? I am sure I can find this information on the web somewhere but maybe some on here knows the ins and out of how this works. 

One daughter who is 21 graduating with Bachelors in Criminal justice would she find work there? We understand the comparison to wages here would be totally lower. Other daughter 26 interested in being on police force. Is that even an options as she was born in US however father is Mexican National. 


Thanks for information or input to some of the questions we have. We have visited rural Mexico every 2 years for the past 30 years, so we know what we are looking at as to a different way of life them we have here, just ready to have that NEW LIFE.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Of course you can. You are the wife of a Mexican and the children have Mexican parent. As such, you will be able to enter on an FMM permit, then change to an FM2 Visa, as family of a Mexican citizen. In a couple of years, you will be eligible for naturalization.
Assuming fluency in Spanish, your children should adapt without too much trauma. Some transfer of credits might be possible; but that discussion should occur with University authorities. Yes, there are female police officers in Mexico. Finding work is always difficult, especially if you don't have 'connections'. However, it is not impossible.
Good luck.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Guanajuato is a big state. There are quite a number of very active farming areas. Do you have any particular areas in mind?


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## newlifeinmx (Mar 27, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> Guanajuato is a big state. There are quite a number of very active farming areas. Do you have any particular areas in mind?



we are open to any where. I am thinking Irapuato area , 2nd lagers city and close to Guanajuato. Hoping my youngest daughter to find employment in either of these cities. We have though about maybe a chicken farm is the way to go. We must find a way to make a living as we are in our early 50’s and looking at all possibilities. My husband is going over in June to look into farming, just here looking for any insight from anyone and/or any leads. Have not been able to find a site that is offering land/farms for sale. Sure I found some that are in the million US dollar range. That is not even an option for us. Not looking for a farm to become a land baron or strike it rich just big enough for us to make a living.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You are wise to do your 'homework' very, very carefully. Land is expensive in Mexico and small farming has pretty much been the very reason for so many Mexicans to move to the USA, legally or illegally. Large mega-farm operations can out-produce the small farmer, sell their products at the retional 'abastos' and put the small farmer in a completely unsustainable position. As such, small farmers everywhere aren't even able to compete locally. In recent years, some organic operations have sprung up, but with higher costs and lower yields, they can't compete either; even in expat areas where there is some demand. On our own property, there is a micro-example: Hass avacados fall off our large tree in abundant quantities and we certainly can't eat them all, so we give them to the neighbors. However, we also have a large mango tree that also produces heavily. Unfortunately, mangos get wormy without spraying. It is much less expensive to buy mangos imported from the large mango farms in other states, distributed via the abastos and retailers, than it is to have the equipment and buy the necessary chemicals to spray our tree. It is all a matter of scale. The individual farmer had better have lots of experience, financial knowhow and a very large investment to carry him through the first several years. It is hard to beat the likes of Driscoll Farms, for example. They're a large fruit producer which distributes fruit in the USA and elsewhere. If you like blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, etc., you probably know them. They dominate the farming areas at the west end of Lake Chapala and have no competition. There are others, exporting tomatoes and many other vegetables; all huge operations.
Frankly, you might be better off looking at a factory job or a professional career.


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## newlifeinmx (Mar 27, 2010)

RVGringo you are discouraging me ;(…I’ll just give you the low down on our plans. We want to leave the US. Cuts are coming in my field of work. My husband went from working 75 hours a week ( for 25 years) to just getting 40. Son in law and daughter both do construction work and there is NOTHING here in Florida. We want to cut our loses and start over. We hope to liquidate everything and come out with $175,000. We are not looking to start a farm to supply the entire state of GTO with eggs and chickens. We want to just make a living, to eat, pay our lights , have shoes, ect. Factor work is not something we are looking to do, my line of work is not an option in Mexico, I am a supported living coach for adults with developmental disabilities. ( Paid though Medicaid funding) My husband works at a Cemex which is a Mexican owned company. No we are not considering him to transfer. We just want a new different life and farming is what we want to do. We hopefully got 20 good years left to work and enjoy our family which we are lucky enough that they also want to cut and run. Sorry to be so blunt but we need to know if this is something that is even feasible for us. We do have an advantage as 2 of us are Mexican nationals and have family throughout GTO. We understand there is NO safety net for us in Mexico.We are not looking to purchase a home that is comparison to the home we have here or vehicles that carry a note on them. There must be someone else out there that is or was in the same situation and I am looking for some insight. Thanks for everyone’s time.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Actually, I admire your ambition and courage; being somewhat independent-minded myself, in younger years, when I actually 'ran away' with my entire family on a wooden schooner and sailed off to the South Pacific, being self sufficient for several years. Your new adventure could be just as satisfying. However, I hope that you recognize that I did take the opportunity to play 'devil's advocate' and point out some of the things that you would, necessarily, have to consider. You should have all of the encouraging and discouraging information available and have the capacity to weigh the facts carefully. As for chicken farming; you must also weigh the fact that Purdue is very active in Mexico these days. They could be your competition, or you might want to tie in with them. It is all just stuff to think about before making any serious decisions. You're doing your 'homework' and that will pay off; no matter what the decision.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

It seems like most of the chicken farms are a couple of producers like Bachoco and another that is subsidiary of Tyson. In the US, these are mostly privately owned with contract with packager. Could be similar here where you could get some sort of deal to set up operations.


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## pablorapido (Mar 31, 2010)

I am an agricultural consultant and work on both sides of the border( at least for another couple of years) I admire the fact that you want to get into small scale agriculture. me too when I retire. I doubt that poultry or eggs are where you want to be concentrating. Bachoco as stated is huge 1.5 billion in egg sales. You would need to compete with that in the market, even the corner market. They also grow and market organic chicken and eggs. (cheaply) 
Guanajuato is a good growing area limited by the amount of water available. I have consulted recently on lettuce and broccoli in that area. Maybe you should look into a niche market crop something like organic mushrooms? whoever said Mexicans have left the farms because small farming would not sustain them was absolutley correct. Farming is much more than throwing some seeds in the ground. we can all grow what we eat, but to make a living on it is a little tougher. Good luck, dont be discouraged


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

What isn't clear to me is whether the Bachoco chicken farms are company owned or contracted as they seen to pop up in unusual places that seem to be privately owned land. If this is the case, and this how operates in the US, then this might be an opportunity but you would need contact the packagers like Bachoco. BTW way, reason that chicken packagers in the US don't want to own the production are the risks associated with the process.
We do have people here, Los Rodriguez, San Jose & San Luis in estado Guanajuato that do broccoli, strawberries, cauliflower, etc. for packagers. Critical is access to water.
Your idea of the Irapuato area is good as would allow work in Silao, Leon, Salamanca & even Celaya as well as Guanajuato. There are quite a number of US companies, including GM that have operations there. Because of your citizenship possibilities, you might be very attractive when compared to cost of expat temp assignment.


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## pablorapido (Mar 31, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> What isn't clear to me is whether the Bachoco chicken farms are company owned or contracted as they seen to pop up in unusual places that seem to be privately owned land. If this is the case, and this how operates in the US, then this might be an opportunity but you would need contact the packagers like Bachoco. BTW way, reason that chicken packagers in the US don't want to own the production are the risks associated with the process.
> We do have people here, Los Rodriguez, San Jose & San Luis in estado Guanajuato that do broccoli, strawberries, cauliflower, etc. for packagers. Critical is access to water.
> Your idea of the Irapuato area is good as would allow work in Silao, Leon, Salamanca & even Celaya as well as Guanajuato. There are quite a number of US companies, including GM that have operations there. Because of your citizenship possibilities, you might be very attractive when compared to cost of expat temp assignment.


Kind of off the subject, Bachoco is a publically owned company but the Bours family still owns 85%. They are from Sonora but have their corporate headquarters in Celaya Gto. Bachoco owns and operates ther own operations from growing feed, milling, and egg production. I think they do at times contract to buy live chickens from outside sources for their egg operations.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks for the input, that is a different business model than I'm used to in the eastern US where Tyson, Perdue, etc. usually contract with producers under some exclusive arrangement.


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## newlifeinmx (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks all for you input. I am stuck I guess. I was thinking we could make it by selling chickens and eggs locally to make the living we need. Guess by the posts that can’t happen. I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!! As I said previously cuts were coming my way (as a Medicaid provider) yesterday I was notified that Medicaid is cutting payments by 6% and that is just the start.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm not sure that you are stuck but the chicken/egg model is different. You still might want to contact Bachoco as they need some one to manage the producing operation as they are scattered. May be possible to get some base income managing a facility and buying some land to do basic truck farming to give some additional income. Each town here of any size has a weekly farmers market where a lot of produce is sold.
In any case, some contact with Bachoco might be a useful start


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Newlifeinmx, I hope that you haven't been discouraged. I just saw the Taylor Farms packaging operation and remembered that they work with a number of independent farmers in the area. I believe they are technically in San Jose Iturbide but very close to highway 57. This makes it very easy to get to Queretaro and all the new foreign company factories and business operations on the north side.
You might contact Taylor Farms in the US and see if you could make a deal. Critical of course is access to water. Those that do grow multiple crops year round and those that don't struggle with one rainy season crop.


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## newlifeinmx (Mar 27, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> Newlifeinmx, I hope that you haven't been discouraged. I just saw the Taylor Farms packaging operation and remembered that they work with a number of independent farmers in the area. I believe they are technically in San Jose Iturbide but very close to highway 57. This makes it very easy to get to Queretaro and all the new foreign company factories and business operations on the north side.
> You might contact Taylor Farms in the US and see if you could make a deal. Critical of course is access to water. Those that do grow multiple crops year round and those that don't struggle with one rainy season crop.


Not discouraged all the way yet...IT"S TAX TIME here been pulling my hair out!!!LOL...thanks for another lead, will be back to my searching in another week or so.


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## MtnWoman (Apr 6, 2010)

Contact Marie or Wendee at ACA the organic farm co-op near Lake Chapala. I am not yet allowed to post URLs so enter greatgreens . org without the spaces. They are in the process of adding organic chickens to their co-op and can give you some good advise.


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## phredo (Aug 15, 2009)

I think what is missing a bit here is the idea of "subsistence farming", which has nothing to do with cash crops and competition. I realize the original poster wants to make a living from her farm, but at the same time she is also wanting a place to live where she can trade working on her farm for the wherewithal for living. Maybe this thread is not the best place to discuss this, but I, too, think that Mexico might be a good place for such a way of living. At present I live outside a small town in northern California, and that's not such a bad place either, but some things like warm climate, the possibility of friendly neighbors who are just "scraping by" too, lack of high prices, property taxes, and such, make Mexico an intriguing possibility. Obviously, "subsistence farming", almost by definition, is not going to put much cash into the household, but maybe it's a way to approach the subject that doesn't get bogged down right away in talking about which agribusiness one will have to compete with. Sort of a "build it right and the solution will present itself" approach. Maybe subsistence farming with a little Social Security benefits, for example, might work. Looked at from this point of view, the concerns become more ones of where to find the right sort of land at the right price, absence of super-farms using lots of pesticides, easy availability of water, friendly locals, climate, etc.

As I said, maybe I should start another thread, but I can't help going on just a little more: while it's true that it might actually be cheaper to buy food than grow it, there are many reasons for the idea of growing you own food and living more self-sufficiently, in general. Living more at the level of the people around you, creating a layer of resiliency for the further economic collapses many people see on the horizon, and getting to eat better food than you can buy in the store are several that come to mind.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

What you say is very true. However, my reading is that Newinmex wants to do both subsistence farming and cash crops as well as to be near locations where her kids can find jobs.
I have a number of relatives that are or have been farmers. There is always a mix of cash crops and products for family consumption to be as self sufficient as possible.
Thoughts have been that some research into buyers of cash crop or poultry could ease the transition and anxiety especially as it sounds like this will be primary source of income. This also might help zero in on possible locations with all the criteria that you list.


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## phredo (Aug 15, 2009)

conklinwh said:


> What you say is very true. However, my reading is that Newinmex wants to do both subsistence farming and cash crops as well as to be near locations where her kids can find jobs.
> I have a number of relatives that are or have been farmers. There is always a mix of cash crops and products for family consumption to be as self sufficient as possible.
> Thoughts have been that some research into buyers of cash crop or poultry could ease the transition and anxiety especially as it sounds like this will be primary source of income. This also might help zero in on possible locations with all the criteria that you list.


I agree, and I think the comments about competition, etc., are on target. I just wanted to widen the discussion a bit, thinking that some of what I mentioned may be of interest to newlifeinmx and others.


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## mirto (Apr 16, 2009)

Hello. Where I live near Lake Patzcuaro in Michoacan I buy from local farmers, fresh fruits and vegetables. I did not know there were factory farms in Mexico. The market is open every day and it's a pleasure to meet the people who grow the food.


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## pablorapido (Mar 31, 2010)

mirto said:


> Hello. Where I live near Lake Patzcuaro in Michoacan I buy from local farmers, fresh fruits and vegetables. I did not know there were factory farms in Mexico. The market is open every day and it's a pleasure to meet the people who grow the food.


By factory farms do you mean the ones that are feeding the world? In the intense farming areas of Mexico, in states like Sinaloa and Sonora you will find some of the most modern and safe farming" factories" in the world. Guanajuato with operations like Tayor farms, and Fresh Express from Salinas Ca. not to mention a double handful of both conventional and organic large mexican farmers are equally modern but limited in growth by the shortage of water. 
by the way i buy at farmers markets also because most produce you find there is grown and harvested as it matures and at the peak of tastiness. I wish everybody had the oppurtunuty to that. It isnt any safer though.....


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## mirto (Apr 16, 2009)

pablorapido said:


> By factory farms do you mean the ones that are feeding the world? In the intense farming areas of Mexico, in states like Sinaloa and Sonora you will find some of the most modern and safe farming" factories" in the world. Guanajuato with operations like Tayor farms, and Fresh Express from Salinas Ca. not to mention a double handful of both conventional and organic large mexican farmers are equally modern but limited in growth by the shortage of water.
> by the way i buy at farmers markets also because most produce you find there is grown and harvested as it matures and at the peak of tastiness. I wish everybody had the oppurtunuty to that. It isnt any safer though.....



when first left the states, flew to mazatlan and lived on Isla de la Piedra for 4 months. There were farmers on the island selling fruits and vegetables. I know next to nothing about business. I only know about corporate farming in the U.S, the cruelty to animals. It is my belief that Mexico is nothing like the U.S. Thank you for the information.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Driscol Farms, a brand well known in the USA, grows fruits and vegetables right here at Lake Chapala. We're fortunate to get the ripe berries, for example, that are too ripe to ship. Boy, are they fantastic!
For those who buy tropical plants for your homes, Flora Exotica is here in Chapala and ships north of the border; even large plants and trees for arboretas, hotel lobbies, etc.


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