# Education from an Egyptians point of view



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

This is a published article by Ala Al Aswani 

I spent the worst days of my life working as a resident doctor in the department of dental surgery at the University of Cairo for a year after graduation. Corruption was rampant in the department as the sons and daughters of wealthy and powerful individuals received unfair privileges. There was also a great deal of tampering with examination results, as well as endless financial and administrative irregularities. In addition, there were serious shortcomings in doctors’ performance. Not only did doctors mistreat patients (who were forced to resort to free medical treatment), they almost committed crimes against them.

What irked me the most was the humiliating way in which professors treated doctors. Professors felt entitled to suppress their students. Everyone felt entitled to humiliate those who were below them in rank; the department head humiliated professors, who in turn humiliated assistant professors, etc. One of the professors supervising a teaching assistant’s masters thesis used to call him a “donkey.” As soon as the professor entered the department, he would yell:

-Where is the donkey? I want to see him.
At this point, the teaching assistant smiled and responded: “I am here sir.”

I remember that I reproached this teaching assistant for not standing up for himself. He told me:

-The professor is like my father.

-Your father is supposed to respect you, not humiliate you in front of people.

The teaching assistant paused and said:

-Which is better? That the professor respects me and I fail the exam, or that he insults me and grants me the M.A. ?

This was the prevailing logic in the department. “Give up your dignity in order to move ahead professionally. Bear all insults and if you cannot take it anymore, insult those below you in rank.
The department head summoned me one day and asked me, in a condescending manner, to go to the train station and buy him a ticket to Alexandria. He had guests so I did not want to humiliate him in their presence. I left the office and called him from the nearby clinic. We had the following conversation:

-I am sorry sir but I cannot buy the ticket.

-Why not?
Because I work as a doctor, and not as a public relations employee.

-You seem to be crazy. Find me the most senior person in the clinic.

The most senior person was a professor. I called him and he took the phone:

-Yes sir. At your service.

The professor, who holds a doctorate, went to buy the ticket. He was honored that the department head tasked him with this. I resigned from this terrible place and travelled to the United States to get a masters degree at the University of Illinois. I had to attend lectures on the science of tissues with second-year students. During a lecture, one of the lectures, a student raised her hand and said to the professor:

-I did not understand. Can you please explain again?

The professor erased what was on the board and explained again. But the student said:

-I am sorry. Can you please repeat the explanation again because I still do not understand?

The professor turned around to erase the board again, but he moved his hand, indicating impatience. The student said:

-Why are you moving your hand is if you are fed up with my stupidity? I am not stupid. If I were stupid, I would not have gotten the grades that have brought me here.

There was a great deal of silence. Coming from Cairo University, I expected a disaster, but I was surprised to see the professor smile and gently telling the student:

-I did not mean to humiliate you at all. I hope you will accept my apology. I will do everything that I can to better communicate this information.

I found myself before two contradictory logics. At Cairo University, students are suppressed and humiliated in the name of respecting their seniors. At the University of Illinois, students are treated as human beings whose dignity must be preserved. Students there have rights and responsibilities. If they perform their duties, they get their rights in return. The difference between the two logics is the difference between autocracy and democracy. Autocracy is like a cancer that spreads from the presidential palace to society as a whole. Oppressed people turn into small autocrats, thereby reproducing the oppression that they are subject to, when dealing with those who are weaker than them. Democratic leaders serve the people who elect them to office through free and fair elections. Autocratic leaders cannot respect the people because they see the people as beneath them. Hosni Mubarak did not use any titles when addressing scientists, artists, and university professors. Instead, he often ridiculed them and expected them to welcome this with gratitude. A famous journalist considered it an honor when Mubarak once hit him on the stomach in front of his colleagues and insulted him. He proudly said:
-Can you believe that the President called me (…)? He always liked to joke with me.

These humiliating relationships stand in sharp contrast to normal and respectful human relationships in democratic societies. In democratic societies, those who clean the streets share the same rights and responsibilities as presidents. Citizens address presidents with respect, but also as equals. In fact, in democracies public officials can be legally subject to harsher criticism than ordinary citizens. Criticizing public officials occurs in the context of ensuring the national interest. A British woman once approached former British Prime Minister John Major during his electoral campaign, yelling:
-Mr. Major, you are a liar.
She then threw spoiled eggs at him, hitting his face. News agencies displayed pictures of the prime minister with his face covered in spoiled eggs. The woman was arrested but was released a few hours later. The details of the release were:
Throwing eggs at the Prime Minister does not constitute a threat on his safety or life and therefore is not considered a crime. Instead, it is a rough way of expressing one’s opinion and British democracy guarantees freedom of expression.”

The disease of autocracy always spreads from politics to ethics. In a democratic society, everyone operates within clear boundaries. In an autocratic society, on the other hand, there is a plethora of examples of odd behaviors. For instance, a law professor may put his knowledge at the service of the ruler, with no regard to people’s rights. When the ruler no longer needs him, the professor may simply join the opposition and demand the removal of the ruling regime. But as soon as there is any indication that the ruler may want the professor again, the latter rushes to offer his services.

There is also the writer who writes films and TV series condemning corruption, but who simultaneously praises Mubarak and tirelessly attempts to present an idealized view of State Security. This writer portrays police officers who have long tortured Egyptians and raped their wives as national heroes who must be respected. These ethical problems are the product of autocracy. In a democratic society, one does not need to befriend the state security apparatus or please the ruler to ensure professional success. Justice reigns in a democracy. Individuals succeed because of their talents and their work, not because of flattery and the backing of the state security apparatus.

I hope the reader has understood my intention. A few days ago, I confronted former Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq (when he was still in office) on a show on “On TV.” The credit here goes to the courage of businessman Naguib Sawiris and my friends’ deep sense of national duty: Yursi Fouda, Rim Magued, Albert Shafiq, and Hamdi Qandil. My conversation with Shafiq was not friendly and lacked flattery. Instead, it was a serious confrontation with an important pillar of Mubarak’s corrupt regime and the official responsible for the massacre that led to the death of hundreds of Egyptians. Many Egyptians also lost their eyes to rubber bullets and thousands went missing during the same incident. I wanted to confront Shafiq and point out that he is politically responsible for these crimes. Despite this, I was keen on being polite. Instead, it was Shafiq who put down his guards and resorted to serious insults as soon as he was trapped and when it became clear that his government provided a way out to remnants of the old regime.

In a democratic system, the president serves the people. Citizens treat him with respect, but they also see him as their equal. In post-revolution Egypt, citizens will no longer bow to the president in humiliation. No citizen will be proud that the president insulted him, or hit him on the stomach. From now on, Egypt’s president must understand that Egypt has changed. He must realize that street cleaners are Egyptian citizens, who have the right to interrogate the president, point out his shortcomings, and demand further explanations of his policies. As soon as I left the studio, I received hundreds of supportive messages and phone calls, from Egyptians inside and outside of the country. I am proud of the words of these dear Egyptians. I received the greatest honor from the father of the martyr Mohamed Ramadan, the youngest martyr in Alexandria. In a letter from Ramadan’s father, I learned that Ramadan, who had not yet turned 16, was killed by a direct bullet to the head. “Thank you. When I watched you on TV, I felt that my son’s blood is in noble hands.”

Democracy is the solution


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## MensEtManus (Jul 30, 2009)

I guess I was being undemocratic when I used to bring coffee to my boss.... 
I guess I was being undemocratic when I used to respect older folks...
I guess I was being undemocratic when I expected folks above and below me to treat me with respect, and I was not supposed to treat anyone with respect.... 
I guess I was being undemocratic when I listened to other arguments and was tolerant of at least listening, on the contrary, I should have yelled and not hear any other arguments...
I guess I was being undemocratic when I didn't throw eggs at everyone that annoyed me....


I think the word democracy has changed its meaning lately


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

The please and thank you words being used would help a lot.

When I arrive at work a cup of tea is made for me, I always say thank you to the man who brings it, I drink up and wash my own cup despite him telling me No madam I will wash. 
I thank my driver at the end of my destination and he tells me I am welcome (if only).
When the staff get a bonus I send a memo to the big boss thanking him on behalf of all the staff, no one has ever asked me to thank the boss but I do it anyway as that is how I was raised.
We all received a gift of meat last week, I cooked casseroles for all the staff using my meat and we all sat down together to eat, the live in staff will be cooking their gift today and not one of them will ask me if I want to come and eat.

I am the only person who says please and thank you in my local grocery store.. the owner asked me why I say please and thank you as there is no need because I am paying for the items.

I tend to try using the words I would like rather than I want.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

Egypt has a very long way to go before we see these simple manners.

Maiden, I would sincerely like to thank you for contributing this article.

I know this forum is mainly for expats, but Ala Al Aswani's message is sending a truthful message to Egyptian readers as well, saying people get respect when they give respect.

Alan.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> Egypt has a very long way to go before we see these simple manners.
> 
> Maiden, I would sincerely like to thank you for contributing this article.
> 
> ...


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Noone can demand respect based on age/status, etc. You have to EARN respect, and that goes both ways.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> *This is part of the published article by Ala Al Aswani *
> 
> _"The difference between the two logics is the difference between autocracy and democracy. Autocracy is like a cancer that spreads from the presidential palace to society as a whole. Oppressed people turn into small autocrats, thereby reproducing the oppression that they are subject to, when dealing with those who are weaker than them. Democratic leaders serve the people who elect them to office through free and fair elections. Autocratic leaders cannot respect the people because they see the people as beneath them. Hosni Mubarak did not use any titles when addressing scientists, artists, and university professors. Instead, he often ridiculed them and expected them to welcome this with gratitude."
> 
> ...


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## NZCowboy (May 11, 2009)

Another good article by Adel Iskandar - Revolution interrupted? On constitutional reform
Revolution interrupted? On constitutional reform | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt

_Lest anyone forget, the last time the constitution was amended in 2007, the modifications of 34 articles passed in a sham referendum marred with irregularities and miniscule voter participation. Despite the NDP’s iron grip on the process and a predetermed outcome, the greatest problem for the amendment’s opponents still prevails today--*the majority of Egyptians are not acquainted with the constitution at all*. Even of those who have some awareness of it, many might be tempted to accept the draft by the rosy language of the amendments or because they feel enough has been accomplished already._

IMO March 19 is to early for a referendum as how can people be epected to make an informed decision on changes to the consitution when they have little understanding of it or other changes that can be made, I think the current consitution needs to be thrown out and a new one drawn up.
Most Egyptians are unaware of any voting systems other than "first past the post" and have no idea of proportional representation - systems that will protect and give voice to minior groups or parties - Women, Copts, Greens etc


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

NZCowboy said:


> systems that will protect and give voice to minior groups or parties - Women, Copts, Greens etc


Women are not a minority group


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

aykalam said:


> Women are not a minority group




Sadly they are here


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Sadly they are here


That's like saying black South Africans were a minority during the Apartheid days 

Women may be oppressed/underrepresented in Egypt, but that does not make them a minority. It's not numbers they lack, it's awareness across the whole population of the need for equality on the ground.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

aykalam said:


> Women may be oppressed/underrepresented in Egypt, but that does not make them a minority. It's not numbers they lack, it's awareness across the whole population of the need for equality on the ground.


Very true. However a secular society (not controlled or concerned with religious or spiritual matters) does not look like materialising.

We saw how these ignorant bigots surrounded and harrassed the Women's March to submission. Even if 50% of Egypt were female, the route to equalty seems more daunting if the MB and others with a non-secular agenda create an Political Islamic state. 

Alan.


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## NZCowboy (May 11, 2009)

aykalam said:


> Women are not a minority group


When talking of *political parties*, I'm unaware of any womens party/group anywhere in the world, that would be considered other than a minority party/group. Of course women are not a minority group as part of a general population, but when comes to politics they are.

No even in NZ, the first country to give all women the vote, with over 35% of members of parliament women, where in recent years, women have held the country's key constitutional positions: prime minister, governor-general, speaker of the House of Representatives and chief justice, have a womens party that would be considered anything but a minority party.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

NZCowboy said:


> When talking of *political parties*, I'm unaware of any womens party/group anywhere in the world, that would be considered other than a minority party/group. Of course women are not a minority group as part of a general population, but when comes to politics they are.
> 
> No even in NZ, the first country to give all women the vote, with over 35% of members of parliament women, where in recent years, women have held the country's key constitutional positions: prime minister, governor-general, speaker of the House of Representatives and chief justice, have a womens party that would be considered anything but a minority party.


Women only parties?  why are we asuming that women rights are women only business? what century are we living in? No, if equality is to become a reality it has to be fought for by both men and women. That is precisely why I said in an earlier post that it is "awareness across the whole population" that is needed to make any progress. 

And of course, there are many obstacles not just in politics but in the deeper social stereotypes (not to mention the religious foundations of the law) that will take many, many years to overcome, if they ever are overcome in Egypt.


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## NZCowboy (May 11, 2009)

aykalam said:


> Women only parties?  why are we asuming that women rights are women only business? what century are we living in? No, if equality is to become a reality it has to be fought for by both men and women. That is precisely why I said in an earlier post that it is "awareness across the whole population" that is needed to make any progress.
> 
> And of course, there are many obstacles not just in politics but in the deeper social stereotypes (not to mention the religious foundations of the law) that will take many, many years to overcome, if they ever are overcome in Egypt.


Who said women only that would be sexist!! 
I'm talking about political groups/parties targeting women's issues, usually open to men and women. 
Please tell me of a political group or party targeting women's issues, anywhere in the world that isn't considered a minority party?


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

aykalam said:


> Women only parties?  why are we asuming that women rights are women only business? what century are we living in? No, if equality is to become a reality it has to be fought for by both men and women. That is precisely why I said in an earlier post that it is "awareness across the whole population" that is needed to make any progress.
> 
> And of course, there are many obstacles not just in politics but in the deeper social stereotypes (not to mention the religious foundations of the law) that will take many, many years to overcome, if they ever are overcome in Egypt.


That's it in a nut shell the foundation of the law, 
And many men and woman, believe that woman have there rights, and so there fighting for what exactly.
They believe rightly or wrongly that they have more rights and freedoms then western woman,
So many are wondering equality, something made up by woman with to much time on there hands.!!


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

NZCowboy said:


> Who said women only that would be sexist!!
> I'm talking about political groups/parties targeting women's issues, usually open to men and women.
> Please tell me of a political group or party targeting women's issues, anywhere in the world that isn't considered a minority party?


Groups that target women's issues only? then they are not political parties they are lobbies.

Mainstream political parties that include gender equality in their programs (and actually put their money where their mouth is)? Plenty. Fine example of this is Spain's governing PSOE, but there are many other similar stories. Not in the Arab world, of course


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

About time there was....


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> About time there was....


Exactly! But this can only happen within the right legal framework, which Egypt lacks. Most people don't seem to realise how crucial the new/amended constitution will be in the future of this country.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

*If you are on the scene...*



aykalam said:


> Exactly! But this can only happen within the right legal framework, which Egypt lacks. Most people don't seem to realise how crucial the new/amended constitution will be in the future of this country.



Then you need to keep reminding everyone.

I'm trying to do similar in my field. As you say, the legal framework requires serious reform before our investors feel comfortable in returning, but I feel more sympathy for the Women of Egypt right now.

Realising equality in a man's world is hard enough, but to obtain it in an Islamic state may be an impossible double challenge. It will take more than a tsunami to wash away those prejudices.

Alan.


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> Then you need to keep reminding everyone.
> 
> I'm trying to do similar in my field. As you say, the legal framework requires serious reform before our investors feel comfortable in returning, but I feel more sympathy for the Women of Egypt right now.
> 
> ...


Yes great, amendment to be voted on. Let's see how the ballot is run, might give us an idea how, summer elections will go.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

bat said:


> Yes great, amendment to be voted on. Let's see how the ballot is run, might give us an idea how, summer elections will go.


It seems to me they (Supreme Council) want to rush this thing through, which is never a good idea. Lots of people don't even know where they need to go on Saturday to cast their ballot...and then, if the "NO" vote wins, are they really going to admit that there needs to be a brand new constitution? I have my doubts!


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

aykalam said:


> It seems to me they (Supreme Council) want to rush this thing through, which is never a good idea. Lots of people don't even know where they need to go on Saturday to cast their ballot...and then, if the "NO" vote wins, are they really going to admit that there needs to be a brand new constitution? I have my doubts!


I presume they will give info via tv and newspaper, never asked.
Also think voting day maybe one of those stay in clean the house day!( no only joking)
Sit in with a cold drink feet up day!


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

bat said:


> I presume they will give info via tv and newspaper, never asked.
> Also think voting day maybe one of those stay in clean the house day!( no only joking)
> Sit in with a cold drink feet up day!


yes, unless you can and want to take part in the vote, most definitely a "keep a low profile" day.The army have warned they will "not tolerate" any attempt at disrupting the referendum.


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

aykalam said:


> It seems to me they (Supreme Council) want to rush this thing through, which is never a good idea. Lots of people don't even know where they need to go on Saturday to cast their ballot...and then, *if the "NO" vote wins, are they really going to admit that there needs to be a brand new constitution? I have my doubts!*


There will be no need for a “Plan B”, cause obviously, the “situation will go as planned” 

The army officials, MB, and the rest of the idiotic political "parties" in Egypt do support the “amendments”, so the results will be “_The Egyptian people said their word in the poll, and they agreed on the suggested amendments; and since democracy means that majority rules, you just need to shut up and live with it_"


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

DeadGuy said:


> There will be no need for a “Plan B”, cause obviously, the “situation will go as planned”
> 
> The army officials, MB, and the rest of the idiotic political "parties" in Egypt do support the “amendments”, so the results will be “_The Egyptian people said their word in the poll, and they agreed on the suggested amendments; and since democracy means that majority rules, you just need to shut up and live with it_"


Yes, pondering that, will it be a "" right you've got your democracy, vote etc, now let's go on as we were before. 
Bat


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