# moving back to US



## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

Served in USAF between 85 and 89. Could I return to US as a tourist and just pick up from when left off even though havent lived there for over 20 years? I have a Green Card issued in 83 ( no expiry) and soc security card both of which would allow me to take up employment there?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

After a Green Card is Granted | USCIS


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

i KNOW THE RULES BUT MY QUESTION IS FROM A POINT OF VIEW OF WHO WOULD KNOW, IE AN EMPLOYER THAT ID BEEN OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS?? I COULD MAKE UP REFERNCES AND WHO WOULD BE THE WISER?


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

dbcooper67 said:


> i KNOW THE RULES BUT MY QUESTION IS FROM A POINT OF VIEW OF WHO WOULD KNOW, IE AN EMPLOYER THAT ID BEEN OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS?? I COULD MAKE UP REFERNCES AND WHO WOULD BE THE WISER?




....... and if they tried to contact these references ?


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

i could just say i havent been working then


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

dbcooper67 said:


> i KNOW THE RULES BUT MY QUESTION IS FROM A POINT OF VIEW OF WHO WOULD KNOW, IE AN EMPLOYER THAT ID BEEN OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS?? I COULD MAKE UP REFERNCES AND WHO WOULD BE THE WISER?


1
Trust me - your made up references will not work. Hurdle #1 - background check. 
Actually Hurdle #1 will be IO at point of entry. These evergreens have been under scrutiny for a couple of years. 

You know you have forfeited your Green Card. You will not find information on how to find an illegal loophole here.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

dbcooper67 said:


> i could just say i havent been working then


... well now you're just being silly .......


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Your status was considered abandoned 12 months after you left 

I doubt you really want to go for a federal felony


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

You also have a lot of missing U.S. tax returns and FBARs (FinCEN Form 114 and its predecessor form), right?


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

yep I think everything is against me moving back, have to make do with my annual vacation


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

dbcooper67 said:


> yep I think everything is against me moving back, have to make do with my annual vacation


Return the green card using form I-407 ...
and use ESTA


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

been using ESTA for past few years, no going to keep my Green Card and Social security card, if nothing else they are cool mementous!


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

sorry mementoes


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

been on a lot of forums where Americans want to live in Europe and Europeans want to live in America (probably more of the latter)-keep thinking it would be great if there was free movement between both countries, I know which way I would head!


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

dbcooper67 said:


> been using ESTA for past few years, no going to keep my Green Card and Social security card, if nothing else they are cool mementous!


you have been lucky no POE guy bothered to check ...so far


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

dbcooper67 said:


> been using ESTA for past few years, no going to keep my Green Card and Social security card, if nothing else they are cool mementous!


Your social security number is still valid, so it's more than just a memento.


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## dbcooper67 (Jun 26, 2015)

Davis1 said:


> you have been lucky no POE guy bothered to check ...so far


check what?? when I visit the states i go in as a british citizen on an ESTA even if i was searched and they found a green card so what im not doing anything illegal we all agree my GC is no longer valid


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

but you still have it ...and its saleable ( very easily)
fortunately its too old for a RF chip detection


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## JustLurking (Mar 25, 2015)

dbcooper67 said:


> ... so what im not doing anything illegal we all agree my GC is no longer valid


You genuinely *do not want to open this can of US worms*.

A green card expires _for immigration purposes_ after some period of non-use, but it does not expire _for US tax purposes_ until either you affirmatively surrender it or USCIS issues a 'final administrative order of abandonment'. It doesn't sound like either of these has occurred. As of right now, then, the US still technically considers you to be fully liable to US tax, for all years since you left.

The way round this, if you don't choose to leave it alone -- and I'd very much suggest that you *do* leave it alone -- is to surrender the green card using I-407 and then catch up on some past years of US tax filing. By claiming US/UK treaty treatment on past returns you may be able to in effect 'back date' your green card surrender and avoid any actual US tax liability. Form Fincen-114 is whole different and unpleasant area. If I described the full horror of that you would think I was making it up.

If all this sounds ridiculous to you, I would certainly agree. This is an example of the US having things both ways -- you have no right to live in or return to the US, but all the obligations of a US citizen.

Barely believable, but this is what happens when US lawmakers unmoor immigration and tax law. The job of immigration law is to be as exclusive as possible. The job of tax law is to be as inclusive as possible. The miracle of the US status that is 'US citizen for tax purposes' lies at the intersection of these two.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

JustLurking is correct that you are legally still considered subject to U.S. taxation (though not necessarily taxed) unless and until one of these three events occurs(red):

1. You voluntarily renounce and abandon your green card status in writing to the USCIS;
2. Your immigrant status is administratively terminated by the USCIS; or
3. Your immigrant status is judicially terminated by a U.S. federal court.

But it's not as grim as JustLurking might suggest. First of all, if you genuinely owe zero U.S. tax -- highly likely for U.K. residents -- then there is zero penalty for non-filing. There is a published penalty for non-filing FinCEN Form 114 (a financial disclosure report), but there's also a 6 year absolute statute of limitations. So you could _probably_, fully legally tidy up everything with a formal green card termination plus penalty-free back filing of 6 years (plus the current year -- 7 years total) of FinCEN Form 114s. If this is a can of worms to open then chances are there are only 7 small worms, and they're all dead already (to extend the metaphor).

The other option is you don't tidy everything up and the U.S. maintains its theoretical legal tax and tax-related claims.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

DBCooper67, it occurs to me there's at least one reason why it'd be a good idea to tidy up your U.S. tax situation: your U.S. Social Security retirement benefits. You mentioned that you served in the U.S. Air Force from 1985 through 1989 (inclusive, I assume). That would mean you made contributions into the U.S. Social Security system within at least 5 calendar years. (Since 1957 U.S. service members on active duty have paid into U.S. Social Security.) If you also have contributed to any other social security treaty country's system -- the U.K. national insurance system, for example -- for at least 5 more years, that'd be enough to qualify for some amount of U.S. Social Security benefits. The U.S. can count those other years in another treaty country's system in order to qualify you for some level of U.S. benefits. You can visit the U.S. Social Security Administration's Web site to look at and confirm your reported earnings history -- they should have all your 1985 to 1989 U.S. earnings on file.

There's also a slight possibility you would qualify for a U.S. military pension, but (as I understand it) you have to be disabled to qualify for that. Yes, you can collect both U.S. Social Security and a U.S. military pension if you qualify for both. If you're married (same or opposite sex) then your spouse likely would qualify for a spousal benefit from U.S. Social Security.

Anyway, these would be good reasons to get your U.S. tax status cleared up (terminated in your case) so that you'll have no future issues collecting your Social Security retirement benefits. How those benefits are taxed in the future will depend on any tax treaty between the U.S. and the country where you live, but cleaning up your tax status now means you shouldn't have future complications that might cause the IRS to grab your Social Security benefits before they're paid.

It's generally a good idea to stay within the good graces of anyone who still owes you money, especially if (as I would expect) it doesn't actually cost anything (except some time and paperwork) to do that in your situation. So it's probably worth taking a look at how to go about making a clean U.S. tax exit.


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