# would you move to spain if...



## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

Bit of a swerve question and maybe different to the norm but...
Would you move to Spain if
You are aged mid 40's
you owned a house in Spain that you love
you owned a house in the Uk that you love
you had a 9 and a 5 year old 
you all love the Spanish lifestyle and
you don't like the Uk weather 
you have a big family in the uk ( inc grandparents) and
you could earn a 6 figure salary in the uk which involves early mornings and lots of traffic and crap or
you could live on the results of what you have achieved already in the Uk, not grandly but not on the breadline either 

if you were in that position, what do you think you may do?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rewdan said:


> Bit of a swerve question and maybe different to the norm but...
> Would you move to Spain if
> You are aged mid 40's
> you owned a house in Spain that you love
> ...



Thats not too far away to how things were for us when we moved to Spain 6 years ago. 

My husband commuted tho and what eventually happened was he got sick of the commute, my children hit school leaving age, cos there was no future for them in Spain and wanted to come back to the UK. Our older daughters, who were living and paying rent in our UK home, left. So we came back. 

I wish we hadnt. 

Would we do it again, oh yes, in a heart beat

Jo xxx


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We were several years older than you when we moved, and didn't have young children to consider (or any children at all in my case, my OH's two were adults).

If the answers to the following questions are in the affirmative, I'd say go for it:-

1) Will you be able to fund your children through higher education, whether they want to remain in Spain or return to the UK for university?

2) Would you be prepared for your children to have to move away from Spain to be able to make a career for themselves (although obviously we don't know what the economic situation will be here or anywhere else by the time they are old enough)?

3) Will your income give you enough to live on not only now but after normal retirement age, bearing in mind that you will hopefully have at least 40 more years ahead of you?

Oh, one more:-

4) You can pay for private health insurance for the whole family for at least the first year, and either carry on with private insurance or pay into the convenio especial for state health cover at €60 per person per month thereafter.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Hmmm. Let me think about that for a second. 

YES...


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

rewdan said:


> Bit of a swerve question and maybe different to the norm but...
> Would you move to Spain if
> You are aged mid 40's
> you owned a house in Spain that you love
> ...




It all boils down to money. 

If you can you afford to live the lifestyle you want without working again, then why not!

If you will need to work, even in a year or twos time, then don't even consider it until you have secured suitable employment.

Have you thought of a middle ground compromise - less demanding job in a quieter area of the UK, it's not all busy roads and cities! That might give you a better lifestyle, while continuing to have a decent income and the ability to afford lots of holidays in your Spanish home.

Don't underestimate the depth and effect of the crisis in Spain. Or even the weather - it can be pretty harsh, too- depends where your house is in Spain.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola

NO - for the Children´s sake; with the unemployment situation as it is, there is no incentive to get a work ethic. When the Children have left home - certainly with many provisos 

Davexf


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Work for a few more years, earn the money and then take early retirement and move.
That's what we did.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> NO - for the Children´s sake; with the unemployment situation as it is, there is no incentive to get a work ethic. When the Children have left home - certainly with many provisos
> 
> Davexf


As Davexf says, it's down to the children (assuming money isn't an issue).

There is no opportunity for part-time working either as school children or when they are older and at university (for example). As said, where is the encouragement to work or even to earn a few euros to spend when going out.

If it weren't for the children, and if, like you, I already had property in UK and Spain then my answer would be YES.

With children and having no UK property - NO


Question - what will happen to the property in Spain when you are no longer around? In all likelihood, the children will be living and working elsewhere - will they want a holiday home in Spain - will they be able to afford it?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> NO - for the Children´s sake; with the unemployment situation as it is, there is no incentive to get a work ethic. When the Children have left home - certainly with many provisos
> 
> Davexf


The children are 9 and 5. Nobody knows what the situation in Spain will be like in 7 years time, which would be the time the 9 year old would be 16, the earliest possible leaving age and more importantly perhaps, no one knows what it will be like in the UK, Europe, The USA, or indeed Brazil, India, China and don't forget South Africa, Chile and Vietnam!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

rewdan said:


> Bit of a swerve question and maybe different to the norm but...
> Would you move to Spain if
> You are aged mid 40's
> you owned a house in Spain that you love
> ...


Good question, and some interesting answers.
The only thing I'd say is that if you're coming, you should come now 'cos that oldest child is getting to the top of the age range that will be OK language wise. If you don't move him/ her now you'll be looking at a private school for that child at least and that may muck up your finances


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The children are 9 and 5. Nobody knows what the situation in Spain will be like in 7 years time, which would be the time the 9 year old would be 16, the earliest possible leaving age and more importantly perhaps, no one knows what it will be like in the UK, Europe, The USA, or indeed Brazil, India, China and don't forget South Africa, Chile and Vietnam!


Hi

The problem is with secondary schooling - that´s where the work ethic starts. Too many young people are "dropping out" and not going for qualifications - they can´t foresee the future except that it will be grim and there will be no work - so why bother with schooling? 

This comes from friends kids who are going through the system currently - so I would wait until the youngest is at university before making any move - but that is just my thoughts 

Davexf


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

brocher said:


> It all boils down to money.
> 
> If you can you afford to live the lifestyle you want without working again, then why not!
> 
> ...


Many Expats on this forum cannot believe it when I say - I moved to Spain
to get a job. I can no longer find in Britain after being made redundant from
my last permanent job in the UK.

If Napoleon reckoned we were 'A Nation of Shopkeepers' back in the early
19th Century. To my mind the UK has descended into a Nation of Service
Sector Jobs - pandering to the needs of those still retaining some sort of
work in Defense or Government related jobs.

SNIP


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

rewdan said:


> Bit of a swerve question and maybe different to the norm but...
> Would you move to Spain if
> You are aged mid 40's
> you owned a house in Spain that you love
> ...


In our case, which was very similar to yours (except that we have only one child, 5 year old), we did move, just 3 weeks ago. We both made 6-figure incomes from our jobs, lived in a 6000 square foot home and owned 2 cars. Here, we are in an apartment 1/3 of the size and have no cars. I think the question should be more on the "*why*" as apparently, you will have to give up something, and whether it is worth it.

For those of us who are fortunate to make a good living and have a comfortable life, it is also these very same things that tie us down. Giving up a good salary and a comfortable life is taking a huge risk and sometime just plain unwise. But at the same time, what is more important, "stuff" or experience? 

We decided to give up lots of these materialistic things to seek a different life style, to experience more quality family time (instead of video, we go to the park and stay until 9PM), to get out of a rat race (I used to work 10-12 hours, and up to 14 hours, a day for a couple of years), to know that our child can go to school and have a good chance to come back home without the fear that some senseless violence would take place on a mass scale (google Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting and you will understand my fear). But aside from "running away from things", there are also good opportunities for our child. He will be exposed to different languages and cultures. In the end, he may choose to pursue higher education in the US, or in the EU. We can't worry about and control what will happen to Spain, or the EU, or the US, or the world 5, 10, 15 years from now. All we know, as parents, is to give our child a good foundation and education. 

We left the grandparents behind and that was a hard thing, a big trade off. I miss having a garden and a back yard vs. just a tiny balcony. I miss easy communication vs. "habla inglés?" and google translate. I miss the convenience of buying anything at almost any hour in the States (but again, it is just "stuff"). Is it worth it? We think so. Even if we realize we are wrong in a couple of years, we still can come back to the US. We would never know if we did not give ourselves this chance.

Good luck with this soul searching process and finding the right path that you are comfortable with. It is not easy. It took us 4 years to pull the plug. You may not have the same luxury of time as your children are older (harder for them to adapt as they get older).


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

You haven't been through a Spanish winter yet then? That's when 'stuff' really comes in handy.


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## youngagepensioner (May 18, 2009)

I would not live as a permanent resident in Spain ever again. I find tax/bureaucracy issues far too stressful.

I would consider renting for three-five months, but I would not even open a bank account if I could help it.

But that is just my experience.

In answer to the question, yes, I would give it a try, but make sure you keep your UK home for when you want to return (which you almost certainly will when the children are older).


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

Wow, lots of interesting comments thanks everyone. It feels like in general the answer is that we should give it a go. We are financially in a position to support our children thru university and may send the eldest to International school if he doesn't fit in with the local school. We would retain property in the Uk as well so could always reverse back to the Uk if things didn't work out. I guess that tick's the boxes of most concerns raised here.
Thanks all


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## youngagepensioner (May 18, 2009)

I really think that the most important thing is having enough money to live on and keeping the property (or at least the wherewithal to get one) in the UK.

Good luck with your move.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

davexf said:


> Hi
> 
> The problem is with secondary schooling - that´s where the work ethic starts. Too many young people are "dropping out" and not going for qualifications - they can´t foresee the future except that it will be grim and there will be no work - so why bother with schooling?
> 
> ...





youngagepensioner;4953041[QUOTE said:


> In answer to the question, yes, I would give it a try, but make sure you keep your UK home for when you want to return (which you almost certainly will when the children are older)


.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Spain has the biggest drop out rate in Europe I believe, and it hasn't been addressed as far as I can see. My own daughter's boyfriend never finished school. Yet _*she*_ went right through the school system from a baby and is now at university. The biggest lesson I learnt from her jouney through school is that there is a lot of work for the parents to do. You have to be on top of things. The school may phone you if your child doesn't show up for xx lesson, but if they are having problems with a subject, failing exams, having social problems etc etc you may not find out until the end of the term or even the end of the year. It's no good complaining that that's not how it's done in your country or that it's not the best way to do it because you're in Spain and that's the way it's done. You have to change and you have to step up.
I'm proud to say I did and generally speaking I was pleased with teachers and the schools. Her leaving school was not only an emotional experience for her, but for us too. She had strong ties to the school and the teachers. (She still does, and goes to visit them periodically) I would have prefered a more British education for her (more creative, not based on rote learning) but it wasn't an option.
So success at school depends not only on the school and the education system, but also the family and most importantly the child. Nothing new there I think!
Lastly, I don't know why anyone would assume that you would want to return the the UK when the children are older. For children who are leaving school now that may well be a good option, but after a life time in Spain (the OPs children are 5 and 9) they will very likely be more Spanish than English. Hopefully there will be more opportunities in Spain then. Also I wouldn't assume that anyone is going to stay put in one place in the future. More and more people are studying and working abroad (Brazil, China, Germany, Algeria...)just because they can and not because they have to.
Yes, check out what is happening in Spain today RE the economy, business and education. That's vital (there is a wealth of info here on the forum) but don't forget to compare and contrast that with the UK and other countries and the long term prospects. I'm the first to say that Spain's economy is bad now, and likely to stay bad for a long time, but let's not condem her for ever!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Many Expats on this forum cannot believe it when I say - I moved to Spain
> to get a job. I can no longer find in Britain after being made redundant from
> my last permanent job in the UK.
> 
> ...


Well it is bucking the trend!
Did you get said job, and if so, what are you doing?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

davexf said:


> Hi
> 
> The problem is with secondary schooling - that´s where the work ethic starts. Too many young people are "dropping out" and not going for qualifications - they can´t foresee the future except that it will be grim and there will be no work - so why bother with schooling?
> 
> ...


I think this varies a lot around Spain and you can't generalise too much.

I know at least 50 families who send their kids to state schools in Madrid, and the kids, parents and teachers seem to be motivated in general (of course there are exceptions). However I also know a teacher in a village Alicante who says the teaching there is dire.

I guess it goes to show that choosing the right school and location is important. The OP needs to bear in mind that the best schools tend to fill up, some areas don't teach in Castillian Spanish, and if the OP doesn't speak Spanish they won't be able to contribute much to their kids' education. It's not a straight forward decision.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kimuyen said:


> In our case, which was very similar to yours (except that we have only one child, 5 year old), we did move, just 3 weeks ago. We both made 6-figure incomes from our jobs, lived in a 6000 square foot home and owned 2 cars. Here, we are in an apartment 1/3 of the size and have no cars. I think the question should be more on the "*why*" as apparently, you will have to give up something, and whether it is worth it.
> 
> For those of us who are fortunate to make a good living and have a comfortable life, it is also these very same things that tie us down. Giving up a good salary and a comfortable life is taking a huge risk and sometime just plain unwise. But at the same time, what is more important, "stuff" or experience?
> 
> ...


Very good post. I agree that *why* is the pertinent question, and I think it should be quickly followed by *how, *for example many say they want to come to Spain to have a better life style, but how is that life style going to be achieved? Many office workers work far longer hours than their Brit counterparts and bars are certainly open for longer here, and that's if the said wannabe is lucky enough to find a job.
Although, as I'm sure you'll admit, you're at the early stages it sounds like you have a good idea of what you've left behind and what you're going towards so hope everything works out!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

rewdan said:


> Wow, lots of interesting comments thanks everyone. It feels like in general the answer is that we should give it a go. We are financially in a position to support our children thru university and may send the eldest to International school if he doesn't fit in with the local school. We would retain property in the Uk as well so could always reverse back to the Uk if things didn't work out. I guess that tick's the boxes of most concerns raised here.
> Thanks all


As long as you have enough savings to see you through after the kids have finished Uni, or you can get back into the work system to start earning money again. I find it a little hard to conceive, how you will cope with not working at all for many years without getting bored, and if you do how will you then pick up the reins again!

It's worth remembering that while the kids are young, you can achieve this "better" lifestyle in a quieter area of the Ik as well as Spain, but as they grow up they are likely to turn into monsters who dwell in their bedrooms in front of a computer screen wherever you live! Just being in Spain doesn't magically change lifestyle!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

kimuyen said:


> In our case, which was very similar to yours (except that we have only one child, 5 year old), we did move, just 3 weeks ago. We both made 6-figure incomes from our jobs, lived in a 6000 square foot home and owned 2 cars. Here, we are in an apartment 1/3 of the size and have no cars. I think the question should be more on the "*why*" as apparently, you will have to give up something, and whether it is worth it.
> 
> For those of us who are fortunate to make a good living and have a comfortable life, it is also these very same things that tie us down. Giving up a good salary and a comfortable life is taking a huge risk and sometime just plain unwise. But at the same time, what is more important, "stuff" or experience?
> 
> ...




Nice post but being in Spain won't necessarily protect you child from the harsher side of life. Tragedies happen in the quietest and most unexpected places- google Dunblane shooting - or the more likely childhood problems of bullying, drugs, alcohol, etc as they grow older. Nor will it stop them hitting an age where they want to spend all tenor time holed up their bedroom in front of the computer!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

brocher said:


> As long as you have enough savings to see you through after the kids have finished Uni, or you can get back into the work system to start earning money again. I find it a little hard to conceive, how you will cope with not working at all for many years without getting bored, and if you do how will you then pick up the reins again!


When I announced that I was giving up my job and moving to Spain, aged 50, many people (especially those I'd worked with) said the same thing to me. After very nearly 8 years I can honestly say I am not bored, in fact I revel in the freedom of being able to do what I want, when I want, and the fact that there are very few occasions when I have to do something I'd rather not do. It beats a life of working long hours, commuting, having to deal with difficult people and being mired in "office politics" hands down.

Anybody who has sufficient resources to live on without working, if they had to, could always start a business doing something they like to do for pleasure, if they wanted to. In those circumstances, in doesn't really matter if they don't make much money out of it.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> When I announced that I was giving up my job and moving to Spain, aged 50, many people (especially those I'd worked with) said the same thing to me. After very nearly 8 years I can honestly say I am not bored, in fact I revel in the freedom of being able to do what I want, when I want, and the fact that there are very few occasions when I have to do something I'd rather not do. It beats a life of working long hours, commuting, having to deal with difficult people and being mired in "office politics" hands down.
> 
> Anybody who has sufficient resources to live on without working, if they had to, could always start a business doing something they like to do for pleasure, if they wanted to. In those circumstances, in doesn't really matter if they don't make much money out of it.


Just playing devil's advocate Lyn as that's what the OP is a after really! But I was also guessing that the OP may be much younger than you were as young children are involved (could be wrong) so whereas you were planning for (early) retirement, OP seems to be thinking of a much longer time span.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

brocher said:


> Just playing devil's advocate Lyn as that's what the OP is a after really! But I was also guessing that the OP may be much younger than you were as young children are involved (could be wrong) so whereas you were planning for (early) retirement, OP seems to be thinking of a much longer time span.


Well, the OP said s/he was mid 40s, so not so great a difference. If I could have chucked it all in and come here when I was 45, you may be sure I would have!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> Well, the OP said s/he was mid 40s, so not so great a difference. If I could have chucked it all in and come here when I was 45, you may be sure I would have!


Me too, Lyn, but the OP is at a very different stage in life to you when you did your sums!


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm with Lyn! I am a bit younger but not that much, when in the Uk my kids do spend an awful lot of time in front of an xbox or play station. They have been in Ibiza for the last 5 weeks and have access to the same machines, I haven't seen them use said machines once. Last night we sat on the terrace playing connect 4 and made up games such as 'name a fruit beginning with a,b,c...'.
Things we would never do in the Uk.
They have also made friends here, both Spanish and English. We have a reasonable amount of land that is fenced in, yet the kids from our nearest neighbouring house that can't be seen, still manage to turn up uninvited just to have a play or jump in the pool, they speak little English and mine speak little Spanish but I guess that doesn't matter if your under water.
As to boredom, as I said I have land that could occupy an awful lot of my time, the house needs bits doing, I have just installed solar so we should have hot water for free for a lot of the time. I am looking into how I can adapt it to provide heating in the winter rather than using gas. All fun for me.
I have also made friends here, in particular a boat storage/maintenance outfit that keep me busy with odd jobs if I want to get out of the house. Paid for with free lunches or sunset cruises on large boats for me and the family, stuff that we enjoy but would cost a fortune for us to charter. Just yesterday I was out testing a large powerful rib, it's not work, it's fun! 
I would still work the odd earning job here but as Lyn said, I could pick and choose what I did. I would probably put the money into a Paella on the Beach fund or where shall we go on holiday fund.
Financially, living in Ibiza we would be secure, staying in the Uk I would need to work.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

rewdan said:


> I'm with Lyn! I am a bit younger but not that much, when in the Uk my kids do spend an awful lot of time in front of an xbox or play station. They have been in Ibiza for the last 5 weeks and have access to the same machines, I haven't seen them use said machines once. Last night we sat on the terrace playing connect 4 and made up games such as 'name a fruit beginning with a,b,c...'.
> Things we would never do in the Uk.
> They have also made friends here, both Spanish and English. We have a reasonable amount of land that is fenced in, yet the kids from our nearest neighbouring house that can't be seen, still manage to turn up uninvited just to have a play or jump in the pool, they speak little English and mine speak little Spanish but I guess that doesn't matter if your under water.
> As to boredom, as I said I have land that could occupy an awful lot of my time, the house needs bits doing, I have just installed solar so we should have hot water for free for a lot of the time. I am looking into how I can adapt it to provide heating in the winter rather than using gas. All fun for me.
> ...


I think you've already made the decision, haven't you!?


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

Yep, I think so too. It was just that as a general rule, posters asking to move to Spain are advised to forget it and stay in the Uk. Probably the right advise but a bit depressing.
I know my circumstances are a lot better than most and have been pleased by the much more positive responses than normal. That was what I was hoping for and shows to me that a lot of you are still loving living in Spain, even thru the doom and cold winters!
Just need to sell my Uk house now and that should finalize things.
Thanks


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

rewdan said:


> Yep, I think so too. It was just that as a general rule, posters asking to move to Spain are advised to forget it and stay in the Uk. Probably the right advise but a bit depressing.


I've only seen this advice given when people are hoping to find work or start a business here. I think we're pretty much unanimous that if you don't have to do this, it's a great place to live.

Good luck!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

That isn't the case.

Yes, people looking for work or to start a business are told it's a bad idea.

But when somebody who says they're retiring early comes along, they're told about massive healthcare costs.

And when somebody retired early or finally comes along, they're told about how CGT and IHT rules will either rob them or their offspring of all that they're entitled to.

But if they've checked, and they're ok with the tax situation, they're told Spain is full of corruption and the rules will change tomorrow to make matters worse, never better.

And then all of them are told that buying a place they love and making it their own is a really **** idea due to the state of the property market, and that they should just rent instead.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be informed that rules are different in Spain and that they should make considerations, but the overall tone here is stifling.

The only thing people are unanimous on is that the sun shines and that the heat can be oppressive in the south.

And this isn't everybody of course, but there are a fair few who regurgitate this in the style of a tabloid rant over and over again.

If you listened to them you'd turn up expecting to see the entire population living in cardboard boxes, empty shops and no cars with any fuel in them. And actually, it's not like that. 

But look, we're British. If you travel world you'll realise that there isn't a race on the planet with so much going for it and so much to be thankful for that whines about everything quite as much as we do.




Alcalaina said:


> I've only seen this advice given when people are hoping to find work or start a business here. I think we're pretty much unanimous that if you don't have to do this, it's a great place to live.
> 
> Good luck!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

And have you noticed it's always "someone they know" who is having these terrible problems, never the posters themselves, because they are far too canny and therefore better qualified to give advice?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Yes!



Alcalaina said:


> And have you noticed it's always "someone they know" who is having these terrible problems, never the posters themselves, because they are far too canny and therefore better qualified to give advice?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Horlics said:


> That isn't the case.
> 
> Yes, people looking for work or to start a business are told it's a bad idea.
> 
> ...


When people ask about what Spain is like, I tell them.
I live and work in non tourist Spanish towns, speak to Spanish people every day, am capable of reading and hearing Spanish news, have Spanish family. A lot of people who live in Spain do not have that contact with the country they are living in and have a distorted picture of what is happening around them.
It's not all bad. I'm not living in a cardboard box, and don't know ayone who is, but I do know people and businesses who are in a constant process of tightening their belts.
Personally I can't see the problem with telling the truth.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> And have you noticed it's always "someone they know" who is having these terrible problems, never the posters themselves, because they are far too canny and therefore better qualified to give advice?


¿¿??!!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Your truth is based on a current and detailed understanding and experience of Spain today. If only that was true of all those who tell their truth.




Pesky Wesky said:


> When people ask about what Spain is like, I tell them.
> I live and work in non tourist Spanish towns, speak to Spanish people every day, am capable of reading and hearing Spanish news, have Spanish family. A lot of people who live in Spain do not have that contact with the country they are living in and have a distorted picture of what is happening around them.
> It's not all bad. I'm not living in a cardboard box, and don't know ayone who is, but I do know people and businesses who are in a constant process of tightening their belts.
> Personally I can't see the problem with telling the truth.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Horlics said:


> And this isn't everybody of course, but there are a fair few who regurgitate this in the style of a tabloid rant over and over again.
> 
> If you listened to them you'd turn up expecting to see the entire population living in cardboard boxes, empty shops and no cars with any fuel in them. And actually, it's not like that.
> 
> But look, we're British. If you travel world you'll realise that there isn't a race on the planet with so much going for it and so much to be thankful for that whines about everything quite as much as we do.


Ah, but the ones who don't get told they're wearing rose-tinted glasses or living in an expat bubble - in typical cliche-speak, of course.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Horlics said:


> Your truth is based on a current and detailed understanding and experience of Spain today. If only that was true of all those who tell their truth.


I'd say there a LOT of people on the forum, regular posters, who have a detailed understanding as you put it, of Spain today, or at least of the area which they are living in. That's one of the things that gives quality to this forum.
It's true that there are always people who post what they know about "Spain" after living here for a few months and never having gone beyond a 50km radius of their house. I think that's usually genuine naivety of just not realising how life varies from one district to another, one season to another and one region to another. It's something that has become more and more apparent to me after joining this community.
We live and learn. 
Hopefully


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

And those who have lived there for years without learning the language or striking up one relationship with a native. They move in expat circles. They use expat insurance brokers, expat financial advisers, expat lawyers, expat hairdressers, expat nail filers, expat dentists, expat cleaners, expat rental property managers.



Pesky Wesky said:


> It's true that there are always people who post what they know about "Spain" after living here for a few months and never having gone beyond a 50km radius of their house.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'd say there a LOT of people on the forum, regular posters, who have a detailed understanding as you put it, of Spain today, or at least of the area which they are living in. That's one of the things that gives quality to this forum.
> It's true that there are always people who post what they know about "Spain" after living here for a few months and never having gone beyond a 50km radius of their house. I think that's usually genuine naivity of just not realising how life varies from one district to another, one season to another and one region to another. It's something that has become more and more apparent to me after joining this community.
> We live and learn.
> Hopefully


Agree completely. One of the first giveaways that a poster knows little about Spain is that they talk about "Spain" and the "Spanish" as if their personal experiences, experienced in their little corner of Spain, somehow must automatically apply to the country and its people as a whole. Of course sometimes generalisations can be drawn, and sometimes we have no choice, but some of the sweeping generalisations that are made on expat forums can be ridiculous.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Horlics said:


> And those who have lived there for years without learning the language or striking up one relationship with a native. They move in expat circles. They use expat insurance brokers, expat financial advisers, expat lawyers, expat hairdressers, expat nail filers, expat dentists, expat cleaners, expat rental property managers.


And paying well over the odds for the "privilege" - whilst whinging about paying more tax!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Chopera said:


> Agree completely. One of the first giveaways that a poster knows little about Spain is that they talk about "Spain" and the "Spanish" as if their personal experiences, experienced in their little corner of Spain, somehow must automatically apply to the country and its people as a whole. Of course sometimes generalisations can be drawn, and sometimes we have no choice, but *some of the sweeping generalisations that are made on expat forums can be ridiculous.*


But this one's nowhere near as bad as ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Imo the rules are simple: if you have ample means, i.e. a good job lined up, adequate retirement income, there should be no problems with moving here.
I'd advise renting before you buy to give you a chance to tryout the neighbourhood, unless you already know it well.
In my little corner of Spain unemployment is high so I wouldn't advise anyone with dependents to come on spec.
But once here, do not complain about what you find. As I said on another thread, Spain has open orders. Go home.
When we started to moan about our life in Prague, we moved. To Spain.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

rewdan said:


> Bit of a swerve question and maybe different to the norm but...
> Would you move to Spain if
> You are aged mid 40's
> you owned a house in Spain that you love
> ...


I would stay in the UK and wait for the kids to grow up, on the income you say you can enjoy the uk, I live here, lived most places, am a Brit and live a British way of life in Spain, if that makes sense. You will find an awful lot of crap here, foreign crap is always harder to digest than British crap. The weather is the only real thing that makes things different for me. Also if you are only in your mid forties just think what you could achieve in another 15 years. Dont forget you can get from most of the uk to Alicante (for example) quicker than you prob can from plymouth to london. cheaper as well.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ssbn02 said:


> I live here, am a Brit and live a British way of life in Spain,
> 
> The weather is the only real thing that makes things different for me.



The second is no doubt a direct result of the first.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> The second is no doubt a direct result of the first.


no not really, I am a Brit abroad. always will be and will never want to change. i am maybe slightly different in that i have never really lived in the uk. one day i will stop being an expat living the ''dream''and start living on the huge benefits of being in the uk over abroad. yep i will prob for a change have to sort out my....uugggghhhh... tax but it will be worth it. then again being a Brit it will be minimal. If i was younger, early forties, able to earn a very high salary in the uk, have a lovely home and a lovely family and afford to enjoy the uk then i wouldnt leave. i would live in the uk and travel abroad as and when i felt like it.

If you are very close to your family and the ties to your country are very tight you will never truly settle and be a true expat, merely be a family on a long vacation.

I have been in spain, in and out, for pretty much 17 years. i know alot of brits, spanish, russian, french and even some australians etc. not to sure they would think living the spanish life is popping into the local bar/cafe, turning your nose up at english boozers and eating salads garnished with a dance lesson from juan is a spanish lifestyle.

hey ho, back to the guinness and daily mail.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

ssbn02 said:


> I have been in spain, in and out, for pretty much 17 years. i know alot of brits, spanish, russian, french and even some australians etc. not to sure they would think living the spanish life is popping into the local bar/cafe, turning your nose up at english boozers and eating salads garnished with a dance lesson from juan is a spanish lifestyle.


That made me laugh out loud.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> i know alot of brits, spanish, russian, french and even some australians etc. *not to sure they would think living the spanish life is popping into the local bar/cafe, turning your nose up at english boozers and eating salads garnished with a dance lesson from juan is a spanish lifestyle*.
> 
> hey ho, back to the guinness and daily mail.


Would anybody think that this is "Spanish lifestyle"?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Actually, I could do with a decent definition of what exactly is the "Spanish Lifestyle". To the best of my knowledge the Spanish(I don't like that term overly much) are just living their life in exactly the same way most people are. You have a home life and a family and the vast majority of the time life revolves around making that function. 
Eat, drink, sleep, clean, play an so forth... at which point does this become living a certain way?
Because I have replaced my diet with local produce?
Because I can obtain said produce in the local tongue?

Maybe it's simply because we live in Spain. I don't know.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Would anybody think that this is "Spanish lifestyle"?


well what is, it is mentioned as a main reason for leaving the uk on quite a few of the threads...the spanish lifestyle. Maybe thats why so many of us enjoy the UAE, the Arab lifestyle. I have to say a few years ago i actually enjoyed Syria. Oh the syrian lifestyle. a bit like manchester on a friday night with more guns though.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Andalusian lifestyle is very different from Basque lifestyle. Rich Spaniards' lifestyle is very different from poor Spaniards' lifestyle. It's a pretty meaningless concept.

The only universal thing that defines it, IMO, are the hours at which you eat.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ssbn02 said:


> well what is, it is mentioned as a main reason for leaving the uk on quite a few of the threads...the spanish lifestyle. Maybe thats why so many of us enjoy the UAE, the Arab lifestyle. I have to say a few years ago i actually enjoyed Syria. Oh the syrian lifestyle. a bit like manchester on a friday night with more guns though.


Spain, like everywhere else in the world, is becoming homogenised. All over Spain, people get up, switch on the tv news, eat and drink much the same stuff that people in say Poland are eating and drinking and then if they're lucky enough to have a job, they go to work.
The things that are radically different from Northern Europe are so chiefly because of the climate. So work and shop hours are different in most but not all parts of Spain.
Look in the shopping basket of your neighbour at the supermarket or village shop and most products are either 'international' or home copies. TV programmes show a lot of dubbed US stuff. There are Spanish copies of most UK idiot shows.

A lot of people imagine the Spanish lifestyle to consist of being sprawled on a lounger by the pool with a packet of cheap **** and a glass of San Miguel. Others imagine a 'real Spain' of white-walled fincas, cool dark bodegas and gnarled old peasants sitting under olive trees with battered old straw hats on their heads.
The real Spain is more likely the big cities where most Spaniards live and work and where many young people used to flee to to get away from stifling village life.... Madrid, Barcelona, Malaga, Valencia...
Just like most of Europe, in fact...

But ignore the romanticised picture and you'll find that Spain is one of the better places to live. It's an 'easy', relaxed place. God knows I didn't want to move here when we decided to leave Prague - I would have preferred Berlin - but after a couple of months and finding a great place to live I knew I wouldn't leave.


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Spain, like everywhere else in the world, is becoming homogenised. All over Spain, people get up, switch on the tv news, eat and drink much the same stuff that people in say Poland are eating and drinking and then if they're lucky enough to have a job, they go to work.
> The things that are radically different from Northern Europe are so chiefly because of the climate. So work and shop hours are different in most but not all parts of Spain.
> Look in the shopping basket of your neighbour at the supermarket or village shop and most products are either 'international' or home copies. TV programmes show a lot of dubbed US stuff. There are Spanish copies of most UK idiot shows.
> 
> ...


memories, the drunken monkey....i think thats right.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Jawohl....
There's a Drunken Monkey in Prague too...


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Jawohl....
> There's a Drunken Monkey in Prague too...


yes sorry, thats what i was referring to...memories..prague does great beer. in fact prague did alot of things great


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> I would stay in the UK and wait for the kids to grow up, on the income you say you can enjoy the uk, I live here, lived most places, am a Brit and live a British way of life in Spain, if that makes sense. You will find an awful lot of crap here, foreign crap is always harder to digest than British crap. The weather is the only real thing that makes things different for me. Also if you are only in your mid forties* just think what you could achieve in another 15 years*. Dont forget you can get from most of the uk to Alicante (for example) quicker than you prob can from plymouth to london. cheaper as well.


* just think what you could achieve in another 15 years
*It probably depends on people's definition of achieve. For some people achieve is earning money, moving up in status at work and acquiring (property, cars maybe jewellery, a boat, a holiday in an exotic place). Others put more value on not working long hours in an unfriendly climate and having more time to spend with the family and "achieving" a more solid family unit.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

What's so different about Spain? I was reminded about one aspect of it last night. We had a big festival in town, La Noche de Vela (the first time the town had put this on). There were stages set up in several different locations with entertainment for all age groups and musical tastes, from children's entertainers to classical musicians to rap to a rock concert up at the Fortaleza atop the hill behind my house. All along my street and right up to the Fort the way was lit by hundreds of little candles on the pavement along both sides of the street, it looked lovely. All the entertainment and concerts were free and all the museums and galleries in town stayed open until past midnight.

Alcohol was on sale and people were drinking, thousands of people must have walked right by my house between 8pm and about 2.30 pm (of all ages, families with small children, groups of teenagers,and older people) but nobody was rowdy, or noticeably drunk, and there was no fighting or vandalism. A few policia local on duty around the entertainment sites, but no huge police presence and no need for one. This morning the street sweepers have been around and cleared away what litter was left, but no need to hose vomit off the streets. THIS is one of the many reasons I love living here.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> * just think what you could achieve in another 15 years
> *It probably depends on people's definition of achieve. For some people achieve is earning money, moving up in status at work and acquiring (property, cars maybe jewellery, a boat, a holiday in an exotic place). Others put more value on not working long hours in an unfriendly climate and having more time to spend with the family and "achieving" a more solid family unit.


There's also the realisation that comes to many of us of how short life can be. Just since the start of this year I've been told of the deaths of two former work colleagues who were younger than I am now, and also been informed that my ex-husband had died of cancer, aged 61.

My father took early retirement in his late fifties, and almost immediately began to develop health problems. Then my mother died aged 63. It was at that stage (quite literally a lightbulb moment for me) that I thought "what exactly am I doing all this for?" and resolved that there was no way I was going to keep slogging away until I was 60 or more just to salt away money I might never live to enjoy.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> What's so different about Spain? I was reminded about one aspect of it last night. We had a big festival in town, La Noche de Vela (the first time the town had put this on). There were stages set up in several different locations with entertainment for all age groups and musical tastes, from children's entertainers to classical musicians to rap to a rock concert up at the Fortaleza atop the hill behind my house. All along my street and right up to the Fort the way was lit by hundreds of little candles on the pavement along both sides of the street, it looked lovely. All the entertainment and concerts were free and all the museums and galleries in town stayed open until past midnight.
> 
> Alcohol was on sale and people were drinking, thousands of people must have walked right by my house between 8pm and about 2.30 pm (of all ages, families with small children, groups of teenagers,and older people) but nobody was rowdy, or noticeably drunk, and there was no fighting or vandalism. A few policia local on duty around the entertainment sites, but no huge police presence and no need for one. This morning the street sweepers have been around and cleared away what litter was left, but no need to hose vomit off the streets. THIS is one of the many reasons I love living here.



But you could say the same of similar events in many of the villages near where I lived in the UK...or even to give it its due the Czech Republic. 
We are not all a nation of rowdy drunks.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We had a similar thing here earlier this month, two weeks of live music, dance, street theatre etc. - all free, organised jointly by the council and the local traders association. Bars did a roaring trade and the drink was flowing freely till 2 or 3 am but there was no trouble anywhere.

In the UK there would have been a plethora of bureaucracy - permissions, third party insurance, risk assessment forms, public entertainment licences and policing arrangements to sort out before you could even get started. Then you'd have to make alternative arrangements in case it rained ...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> But you could say the same of similar events in many of the villages near where I lived in the UK...or even to give it its due the Czech Republic.
> We are not all a nation of rowdy drunks.


Villages, maybe. But I am speaking of a large town with over 50,000 residents. The British family with 2 young daughters who were with us last night, who live in a smaller town than this one in the UK, were struck by the different atmosphere, mingling of all age groups, and most of all the lack of drunkenness. As were the British friends we went to a similar public event in Nerja with last year, when lots of temporary bars were set up in the streets. They couldn't get over how few police there were to be seen compared to British streets on weekend nights (and they don't live in a big city, either).

Do you get many families with toddlers in pushchairs, or people in their '70s and older, walking the streets of a British town at 2am on a Saturday morning when there's a big public event going on with alcohol freely available?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> Villages, maybe. But I am speaking of a large town with over 50,000 residents. The British family with 2 young daughters who were with us last night, who live in a smaller town than this one in the UK, were struck by the different atmosphere, mingling of all age groups, and most of all the lack of drunkenness. As were the British friends we went to a similar public event in Nerja with last year, when lots of temporary bars were set up in the streets. They couldn't get over how few police there were to be seen compared to British streets on weekend nights (and they don't live in a big city, either).
> 
> Do you get many families with toddlers in pushchairs, or people in their '70s and older, walking the streets of a British town at 2am on a Saturday morning when there's a big public event going on with alcohol freely available?


No, because it's not our culture to do things like that. We don't often put on that kind of event which is a shame. Northern Europeans, not just Brits, seem to be unable to handle alcohol in a sensible manner which is sad. We also don't stay up late. Maybe it's because our drinking culture is based on spirits and beers and not wine.
But not every Brit is a drunken Hun or Vandal. It's easy to exaggerate these kinds of differences. Our village feria is taking place this weekend, in fact I'm off down there in an hour or so. There will be Spaniards a bit 'under the weather' no doubt...
the difference being that they will be happy and won't want to smash the place up.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> No, because it's not our culture to do things like that. We don't often put on that kind of event which is a shame. Northern Europeans, not just Brits, seem to be unable to handle alcohol in a sensible manner which is sad. We also don't stay up late. Maybe it's because our drinking culture is based on spirits and beers and not wine.
> But not every Brit is a drunken Hun or Vandal. It's easy to exaggerate these kinds of differences. Our village feria is taking place this weekend, in fact I'm off down there in an hour or so. There will be Spaniards a bit 'under the weather' no doubt...
> the difference being that they will be happy and won't want to smash the place up.


Well, quite - that's why I said it's a difference. Of course not every Brit is drunken Hun or Vandal (well if they were they wouldn't be Brits, would they?) - but I'm sad to say that even though the ones who are nasty and violent drunks, or just don't know when to stop, are probably in the minority, they're a big enough minority to make their presence felt in a way that keeps others off the streets in their wish to avoid such scenes, which is a shame.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Well, quite - that's why I said it's a difference. Of course not every Brit is drunken Hun or Vandal (well if they were they wouldn't be Brits, would they?) - but I'm sad to say that even though the ones who are nasty and violent drunks, or just don't know when to stop, are probably in the minority, they're a big enough minority to make their presence felt in a way that keeps others off the streets in their wish to avoid such scenes, which is a shame.


Could it be that Brits _expect_ there to be trouble, and take all possible precautions, whereas in Southern Spain they assume everything will be fine and only react if there's a problem?

I've noticed this trait in many other aspects of life, not least driving on roundabouts.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Could it be that Brits _expect_ there to be trouble, and take all possible precautions, whereas in Southern Spain they assume everything will be fine and only react if there's a problem?
> 
> I've noticed this trait in many other aspects of life, not least driving on roundabouts.


Don't know, but speaking personally, it was having witnessed outbreaks of violence, people staggering all over the roads, in and out of traffic, walked past pools of vomit on a Saturday or Sunday morning when I had to go into a town or city centre, plus the experiences of family members who'd been attacked (my brother-in-law and my stepson, in two different areas) that made me no longer wish to venture into town or city centres late at night. I've seen crime reported here such as people being killed or injured in fights outside nightclubs, but I've never witnessed any such thing myself when out at night in Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Malaga, Zaragoza, Bilbao, Cadiz, Jerez, Granada - nor here at home in Velez, which is no sleepy village.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

However that may be...we managed to stay away from the violent political extremist ideologies which were prominent in many European countries in the middle of the last century and which in Germany, Italy and Spain led to Nazi, fascist and authoritarian right-wing regimes respectively, regimes which were supported by a very large percentage of their populations. Neither have we murdered each other in the name of some political creed. Spaniards may be peaceful, tranquil etc.etc. now which is a change from the way things were within the lifetime of many Spanish people. Let's not go overboard on this tranquillity thing.

That may be history now but I can overlook some boorish behaviour in Brits which is preferable to political extremism.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Don't know, but speaking personally, it was having witnessed outbreaks of violence, people staggering all over the roads, in and out of traffic, walked past pools of vomit on a Saturday or Sunday morning when I had to go into a town or city centre, plus the experiences of family members who'd been attacked (my brother-in-law and my stepson, in two different areas) that made me no longer wish to venture into town or city centres late at night. I've seen crime reported here such as people being killed or injured in fights outside nightclubs, but I've never witnessed any such thing myself when out at night in Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Malaga, Zaragoza, Bilbao, Cadiz, Jerez, Granada - nor here at home in Velez, which is no sleepy village.


Hmm, there are plenty of pools of vomit around city centres on a Sat or Sun morning if you're up early enough. The great advantage here is that they do a great clean up job - another difference I think we can say between Spain in general and the UK in general, that is rubbish collection and street cleaning.
But there's definitely a difference in the late night vibe (for want of a better word). As you say in a previous post, where in the UK are you going to get people from babes to the elderly in the street in the early hours of the morning with large doses of alcohol mixed in with so few incidents?


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmm, there are plenty of pools of vomit around city centres on a Sat or Sun morning if you're up early enough. The great advantage here is that they do a great clean up job - another difference I think we can say between Spain in general and the UK in general, that is rubbish collection and street cleaning.
> But there's definitely a difference in the late night vibe (for want of a better word). As you say in a previous post, *where in the UK are you going to get people from babes to the elderly in the street in the early hours of the morning with large doses of alcohol mixed in with so few incidents?*


i always head to soho.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> i always head to soho.


I find it difficult to compare the atmosphere of a summer evening in the main square in many towns and cities of Spain packed with people having a good time - with Soho...
It's comparing apples and pairs as Ana Botella would say


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I find it difficult to compare the atmosphere of a summer evening in the main square in many towns and cities of Spain packed with people having a good time - with Soho...


come to the very upmarket parts of the costa del sol on some evenings it makes soho look good. 

if memory serves me well a few weeks ago barcelona was more soho than soho.

come to think of it my mermory doesnt serve me that well anymore so i may well have been in soho!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ssbn02 said:


> *come to the very upmarket parts of the costa del sol on some evenings it makes soho look good. *
> 
> if memory serves me well a few weeks ago barcelona was more soho than soho.
> 
> come to think of it my mermory doesnt serve me that well anymore so i may well have been in soho!!


So you mean it's not very nice?
And is that due to the Spanish or to foreign tourists?


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## ssbn02 (May 16, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So you mean it's not very nice?
> And is that due to the Spanish or to foreign tourists?


soho is great, barca is not so....and it is prob the fault of brits visiting dream land and thinking thats how we live all year...i for one can only do it 5 times per week as the driver is allowed 2 days off, if i had my way would ban the working classes and all johnny foreigners from the enclave.


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