# hi newbie here...another lamb to the slaughter !!



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

HI

we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.

Location - undecided about hour from coast - we live rural here and prefer rual but walking distance of village and as i say hour to coast we will be starting to research areas but I like the Granada seville areas. but have open minds

I will be taking early retirement from NHS

Looking to buy house for ourselves and possibly 1-2 others - either house or apartments to either rent out on long term lets - subject to further investigation or holiday lets - subject to location etc.

We will have sufficient funds for 2 years as back up

2 cats, 2 daughters who are based in the uk but both have jobs that mean they travel 1 around the word and 1 around the UK. Both are happy for us to do this. Apart from my brother - who see;s cheap holidays no other commitments.

WHY?

Not the cliche - a better lifestyle - whats a better lifestyle anyway - for me that would be winning the lottery and not working - moving abroad on a pension income - which is liveable - but extra income would obviously be helpful is not better but just different. We want to do something different while fit enough to do so.

I speak reasonable French and some Spanish - but confident that once I start lessons in October, my Spanish will progress well.

Why Spain

Well to be honest we have over the years traveled to both France and Spain and have been undecided. Moving to Spain is during these economic times is a risk - however, it is the economic situation with house prices that allows us to have more choice in the housing market, and we feel - rightly or wrongly that the housing market still has a way to fall. 

Anyway thats my ramblings done.

Will be back to ask stupid questions later


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

cambio said:


> HI
> 
> we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.
> 
> ...


I think you have it all sorted!

And I always think that so-called 'stupid questions' are those that most people would like to ask but are afraid to for fear of looking silly and which only the sensible few do actually get round to asking...

So fire away...  But you have income etc. , knowledge of the area, you clearly understand the economic situation here and have taken it into account, you aren't looking for work and have no dependents...

And you haven't fallen for the 'better lifestyle/Spanish dream' cliche.

I think you will be very happy in Spain.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cambio said:


> HI
> 
> we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

have a good read of the forum then ask as many questions as you like

someone once said that there's no such thing as a stupid question - bit it's stupid not to ask


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

:welcome:

... all that, and PLEEEEASE join in the discussions! Always good to have some fresh opinions!


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I think you have it all sorted!
> 
> And I always think that so-called 'stupid questions' are those that most people would like to ask but are afraid to for fear of looking silly and which only the sensible few do actually get round to asking...
> 
> ...


Thanks xabiachica

Still nervous though, but excited We do not need jobs but income from Rentals will be 
gratefully received and make life comfortable rather then "edgy" LOL, dont want everyone to assume we are getting a huge income, butwe are also in a position to be able to travel to UK to do Bank work, if top up required for say the leaking pipes or a new exhaust, these are the things that I think can throw a spanner in the financial plans of a lot of people, as a theatre nurse there is always the odd shift that can be picked up here in the uk, and friends to stay with. Financially it is going to be tough, but it can be tough anywhere I suppose. But tough and different I think, I do not particularly want to sit around and knit all day, but hopefully will find new interests.
Before any permanent decisions are made it is now about location location location not only for us but also for rentals.
At the moment I am deep in researching the "proof of income" which has thrown me a bit.

Thanks Again


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

cambio said:


> HI
> 
> we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.
> 
> ...


Its what I mentioned on another thread
Finding a different life style, not running away from something

We were in our early / mid fifties when we moved here, and roughly for the same reasons. I'd only say try and keep a bolt hole in the UK if you can, because even since we have moved here we have always taken regular trips back. I love the UK, as you can probably tell


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for your welcomes
I suppose the first thing is location.

criteria

Semi Rural - walk to village
Land - acre
an hour from coastal town - where the possible holiday lets are
an hour from town - where the possible long term lets are

I love the mountain areas, husband happy to love where i love!!!!!!!!

Would love to hear the name of some towns fitting this - then i can investigate if they fit into out price range and criteria

Thanks


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

A warm welcome from the Meridian Isle of El Hierro. 

Wherever your chosen location might be, rent at first for a period in winter.

Our initial choice was Gran Canaria, then we found this island some 200 miles to the east, although I really like Gran Canaria, I often wonder if we could have settled there.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

cambio said:


> Thanks for your welcomes
> I suppose the first thing is location.
> 
> criteria
> ...


My immediate thought was Ronda, Casares or any one of the other pueblos blancos in Andalucia - Alcala de los Gazules, home of Alca, they would all fit the bill.

You would also be within easy reach of Gibraltar and Malaga Airports - not sure if there are regular UK flights from Granada or Seville but there probably are.

Gibraltar is useful for those UK things you can't do without - we visit about three times a year to fill our freezer with Quorn veggie products for my non-meat-eating OH.

We live in a small quiet Spanish village on the coast within easy reach of Estepona, a lovely little unpretentious Spanish seaside town. From the front of our house we can see the sea, fromthe back the mountains of the Sierra Bermeja, including one we call 'Mount Paramount'as it reminds us of the old Paramount film logo....the mountain encircled by stars...well, it hasn't got the stars but it has the shape...

Inland tends to be less expensive than the coast but rents generally are lower than a few years ago - it's a renter's market.

You need to come over for a good look round...


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Hepa said:


> A warm welcome from the Meridian Isle of El Hierro.
> 
> Wherever your chosen location might be, rent at first for a period in winter.
> 
> Our initial choice was Gran Canaria, then we found this island some 200 miles to the east, although I really like Gran Canaria, I often wonder if we could have settled there.


yes thanks

This is our plan. we want to start looking through this coming winter. We feel that if we like somewhere between October and March we may well feel at home long term!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

cambio said:


> Thanks for your welcomes
> I suppose the first thing is location.
> 
> criteria
> ...


Look no further! Lots of rural tourism, activity holidays etc, fabulous scenery, inexpensive compared to other areas, and within an hour of the Costa de la Luz.
Pueblos Blancos/Sierra de Grazalema - Official tourism website of Cádiz


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

cambio said:


> yes thanks
> 
> This is our plan. we want to start looking through this coming winter. We feel that if we like somewhere between October and March we may well feel at home long term!


My Father used to live in Moraira, not far from Javea, the Jalon valley is beautiful a very scenic area and well worth a visit.

Photos on the link below of where I live.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

cambio said:


> yes thanks
> 
> This is our plan. we want to start looking through this coming winter. We feel that if we like somewhere between October and March we may well feel at home long term!


We arrived from cold, snowy Prague on the second of December 2008. Our original intention was to stay for a few years then move on, probably to France. 
That first winter/spring was extremely wet and windy. When we first arrived we lived for a month in my son and dil's house and looked around. We made one disastrous move -my fault entirely for grabbing at the first half-decent place we saw - and I often thought back to the beauty of Prague...

And then:we found a house we loved and spring came. After a very short time indeed - weeks rather than months - we both decided we were staying put. 
Actually OH had got round to thinking that long before I did

I think it's an excellent idea to move over in winter. Please don't think me mean if I say that I'm hoping this winter will bring long, heavy downpours....we've had an exceptionally dry winter, spring and summer here. But that will also be a kind of 'test' for you and you will know that eventually the sun will shine, the skies will be blue and your outdoor life will begin.

As far as I can remember, I started wearing shorts in late April and I don't expect to cover my extremities umtil late October....


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi Cambio, the area that I live in sounds like what you are looking for. I live an hour from Malaga and Seville, 45 minutes from Cordoba and just over the hour from Granada. Because this area is central to all of the above cities it makes it very desirable as holidaymakers can stay in one place and visit all of these major tourist areas. I live in a small village of approx 300 people and love it.
Caz


----------



## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

cambio said:


> HI
> 
> we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.
> 
> ...


Is buying property in Spain and renting them out as holiday homes a good idea? I thought quite a few people do this already? Personally I would buy property in the UK and rent it out rather than doing it in Spain for holiday homes. But that's just me, I don't live in Spain yet so I don't know what the situation is like exactly, but I would think long and hard about this. I assume other peple on this forum know more about this?


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I wouldn't buy if there is a possibility that you will ever need to sell it. Buy some to rent out , yes. Rent to live in , it's cheaper.


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

cambio said:


> HI
> 
> we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.
> 
> ...


I can actually see a positive in buying two more modest propeties in Spain, one to live in and one to rent out, as if they are close to each other you are on site to keep an eye on your rental, and deal with issues quickly.

Someone I worked with a few years back did this but in Morocco, sold a place in the UK and bought three in Morocco, one to live in and two to rent to supplement their pension. It was townhouse looking but three flats, they took one and let out the other two. 

Not everybodys cup of tea, but it can work for some. Being a long distance landlord can also bring problems and expense as you would really need to employ a managing agent if renting out in the UK but living in Spain.

Good Luck whatever you decide.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Tilley said:


> I can actually see a positive in buying two more modest propeties in Spain, one to live in and one to rent out, as if they are close to each other you are on site to keep an eye on your rental, and deal with issues quickly.
> 
> Someone I worked with a few years back did this but in Morocco, sold a place in the UK and bought three in Morocco, one to live in and two to rent to supplement their pension. It was townhouse looking but three flats, they took one and let out the other two.
> 
> ...


Hi

This is our point of view as well. Buying in the UK is all well and good, but once you add management fees etc it can eat into the costs very quickly. The idea of renting out here is to be on hand - dealing with issues. 



> gus-lopez I wouldn't buy if there is a possibility that you will ever need to sell it. Buy some to rent out , yes. Rent to live in , it's cheaper.


Worth a look at thanks



> strirtravelo ]Is buying property in Spain and renting them out as holiday homes a good idea? I thought quite a few people do this already? Personally I would buy property in the UK and rent it out rather than doing it in Spain for holiday homes. But that's just me, I don't live in Spain yet so I don't know what the situation is like exactly, but I would think long and hard about this. I assume other peple on this forum know more about this?


Obviously as stated we will be looking long and hard not thinking of rushing out next week - however sometimes in life you take the odd risk, either it works or it does not,
life is what happens while your making plans. Too many people sit and try and worry and formulate a plan for every event... might not wake up tomorrow - lifes far to short


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Your last paragraph could be talking about me lol.

Regarding the person I worked with, it was five or six years ago and they haven't come back to the UK as far as I am aware so it must work out for some folk.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Tilley said:


> Your last paragraph could be talking about me lol.
> 
> Regarding the person I worked with, it was five or six years ago and they haven't come back to the UK as far as I am aware so it must work out for some folk.


LOL

Dont worry its us as well.. We have been talking about this since the girls were young then it was

what if..children don't like it
then
what if we don't like it
then
what if
then what if
then
suddenly
the children are 30 years old
2 friends die before they should
and birthday cards are coming through the door saying
Happy 55Th birthday
and you realise that 30 years has gone..where i have no idea... and you have not done the thing you always wanted to do.

Even while browsing this forum.. i think what if theres not enough money, what if we go to register and they say no go home!!!!!!:boxing::boxing:

x


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

If it doesn't make sense to buy then buying to rent can't make sense either.

Most here suggest renting first. Now from the view point of falling property prices and the idea you might not like an area/home renting makes great sense. 

Worse from the buy to let view point is all the bank owned property. It's going to take years to clear all that.

I know many of the estate agent sites often tout homes at selling for less with a 100% mortgage then it would take to rent but if you buy to live in all the issues of being a landlord don't exist. You won't have months with no tenant. Tenants that don't pay rent. Tax to pay on the rent. Repairs .

It's not like you can't invest your money in something different. You mention buying two properties. That means all your money tied up in those two properties. I assume in the same town. Imagine the worst. Earthquake or other natural disaster wiping out everything.

I'm just suggesting to consider other investment options. Some thing with less risk and hassle must exist. If the extra income would be nice then the months the tenants decide they have better uses for the money will bother you.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

NickZ said:


> If it doesn't make sense to buy then buying to rent can't make sense either.
> 
> Most here suggest renting first. Now from the view point of falling property prices and the idea you might not like an area/home renting makes great sense.
> 
> ...


sorry being bit dim here but i do not understand what you are saying.

I did not say we would def do long lets - we would look into long lets, we may do holidays lets. There is tax to pay on any income be it rentals, savings or investments,

Natural Disasters - well based on that - where would you buy any property in case - 

However if you know of other investment options with less risk - ie non paying tenants, fire flood and pestilence please let me know. I am sorry if I am coming across slightly off hand, but I am not grasping what you are saying


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

I think planning round things like natural disasters is another way of just not doing anything.

You can have natural disasters anywhere in the world, just as likely to happen in your home country as in the one you choose to go. That's a really bad reason for not doing something IMHO and I am pretty cautious.

There may be less holiday rentals going on, but there are still some holiday rentals going on. (I know as I have done a couple in the last 9 months) it's just making sure you are savvy enough to tap into what is left of the market.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hmm, I used to give presentations on a field that I specialised in, and they were there always, those two damned Russians, watif and butif..............


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Tilley said:


> I think planning round things like natural disasters is another way of just not doing anything.



No I didn't mean that.

It's about spreading out your risk. It's hard to spread out your risk with property. One piece of property tends to be expensive. That means the average person can't easily spread the risk.

If things go wrong


----------



## lexynsuz (Sep 10, 2012)

we decided to return to spain but wanted to be more at the brit end this time, we live in alhaurin el grande ( been here just a week tho) and its close to what you say, is inland yet close to the coast, we went to fuengirola and it took 20 mins... lots of ruralness at the edge of town etc...you can come here n we can all be fwiends


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lexynsuz said:


> we decided to return to spain but wanted to be more at the brit end this time, we live in alhaurin el grande ( been here just a week tho) and its close to what you say, is inland yet close to the coast, we went to fuengirola and it took 20 mins... lots of ruralness at the edge of town etc...you can come here n we can all be fwiends


Where were you before?


----------



## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

Tilley said:


> I can actually see a positive in buying two more modest propeties in Spain, one to live in and one to rent out, as if they are close to each other you are on site to keep an eye on your rental, and deal with issues quickly.
> 
> Someone I worked with a few years back did this but in Morocco, sold a place in the UK and bought three in Morocco, one to live in and two to rent to supplement their pension. It was townhouse looking but three flats, they took one and let out the other two.
> 
> ...


Fletch in France.

In 1985 my wife and I bought our first house in southern Spain, we kept it for sixteen years and the family used for holidays etc. We had a very happy time with fond memories of days spent with Spanish friends. After selling the house, because of the excessive building back then, we eventually moved to France were we have happily settled for the past ten years.

During my visits back to the U.K. I am often asked by people, " Fletch", you have bought properties abroad, we are thinking of doing the same, have you any advice that may assist us in our decision ? "

The only two pieces of advice I could give, would be.

1. Thoroughly dniscuss this very important, life changing decision with all of your family, including any surviving parents. I often see couples arrive in France and eventually split up, the husband stays in France/Spain and the wife goes back to England because she is missing her mother/siblings. I think it much harder for the ladies to be apart from other family members than it is for us blokes, unfeeling oafs that we are. Be assured, being together 24/7 And not working is hard work in itself, no matter how much you think of each other. The arrangement that my wife ( madame Crocodile) and I have is that when she misses the kids and grandchildren, she gets the plane back to UK. For a short break, gets it out of her system and then returns to France, it happens about twice a year, and everyone is happier for that time apart. We have been married for fourty two years.

2. When you are making that original decision to leave "Albions fair shores" for a life in any other country, be prepared, one day, if things do not work out, to turn your back on the whole idea, write off your expense and go home, dont stay when you are not happy.

Hope it all works out for you. Fletch in France.


----------



## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Stewart Fletcher said:


> Fletch in France.
> 
> In 1985 my wife and I bought our first house in southern Spain, we kept it for sixteen years and the family used for holidays etc. We had a very happy time with fond memories of days spent with Spanish friends. After selling the house, because of the excessive building back then, we eventually moved to France were we have happily settled for the past ten years.
> 
> ...


Thank you fletch for an honest and thought provoking post and congrats on being married 42 years, I feel an novice at 29 years yesterday. LOL at men being unfeeling oafs. You have probably not read many of my posts, why would you, but my hubbie and I were were only thinking of coming abroad for a couple of years ( a sort of mid-life gap year process), as I could never be away from my family long term.

We have no intention of selling up in the UK as have a lovely home, in a nice place and nice life here and dont seem to have the same issues with the UK many ex-pats seem to have, but just want a little adventure while we can still manage it and before we are in our dotage, where I feel familiarity in terms of lifestyle and culture is necessary.

Your posts have been useful to me though as the thoughts are now on us of maybe spending a year in Spain and a year in France. Most rentals I have seen in Spain appear to be for 11 months anyway, but no idea how it works in France, so now need to do a lot more reading to see if this is all a viable option, as one Country was difficult to research the bureaucratic processes so two will no doubt be even more complex. We have a limited time frame to do this while we are renting flats for our kids at different UK Uni's and wish only to be away while we know they are sorted accommodation wise.

Thank you for giving us a different perspective on things, although much more to think about and research.


----------



## HOFI (Oct 12, 2009)

*Is there a dream?...*

Hello Newbie. My wife, who I met in Gran Canaria, and you say, "what's a better lifestyle anyway", may I say, that a better lifestyle is absolutely vital to living a good life that will certainly end, as in passing on. As a qualified Financial Consultant, sunshine is a vital resource for health, and that translates into a better life, the "style" of it is in your hands, however, the wonderful sunshine creates the vital vitamin D, and you feel better in health when you are enjoying it in Spain.

Living so far inland can get over-bearing, I believe it hit nealy 50 deg in Sevilla this summer. We live 20 min from Fuengirola, and its a good as it gets. Country living, lovely villa, and nothing to moan about.

With regard to buying, be very, very careful. As a professional advisor, I advise all people I meet to NOT buy at this time, as the market has at least 4 to 5 years to fall. Just look at the banks having to "off-load" thier repos to put a true value on thier books. The British pre-occupation with wanting to own is way off the mark at this time.

I have advised client to sell, they have, we have put good investments together, and they are enjoying 7.9% with a totaly credible 160 year old company, that is when the money in a house, would be going down the plug hole.

Not talking out my bum. Been here 12 years and know the situation. Currently writing a book to make potential expats aware. You please take care. Regards Tony 



cambio said:


> HI
> 
> we - husband and I - are planning to move to spain. We are in our, well just past our mid 50's.
> 
> ...


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

HOFI said:


> As a qualified Financial Consultant, sunshine is a vital resource for health, and that translates into a better life...


:confused2:

Can't wait to read the book!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> :confused2:
> 
> Can't wait to read the book!


I can't work out what being a financial consultant has to do with the sun, either


----------



## HOFI (Oct 12, 2009)

*hmmmm?*

It has nothing to do with the sun. Money exists in every climate, and also its control to advantage the holder of that money. 
It is my profession, and my experience guides me to fairly accurate conclusions, which have safe-guarded my family and my clients. It is simply my job. However, it in no way detracts from my experience of life here, in fact, because the control of money underpins succesful living here, it is in my judgement the guiding factor to dealing with life here is knowing someone who will be honest with you, has the experience, and give you no BS.Thats me, download my current book , and you will get to understand me...... take care. 



xabiachica said:


> I can't work out what being a financial consultant has to do with the sun, either


----------



## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

HOFI said:


> Hello Newbie. My wife, who I met in Gran Canaria, and you say, "what's a better lifestyle anyway", may I say, that a better lifestyle is absolutely vital to living a good life that will certainly end, as in passing on. As a qualified Financial Consultant, sunshine is a vital resource for health, and that translates into a better life, the "style" of it is in your hands, however, the wonderful sunshine creates the vital vitamin D, and you feel better in health when you are enjoying it in Spain.
> 
> Living so far inland can get over-bearing, I believe it hit nealy 50 deg in Sevilla this summer. We live 20 min from Fuengirola, and its a good as it gets. Country living, lovely villa, and nothing to moan about.
> 
> ...


HOFI. Well said. Its not for me to suggest/advise to anyone what to do with their dreams/dosh. At the moment do not buy anything in France/Spain. By all means , find the place of your dreams, arrive with your pocket full of euros and rent somewhere for thevforseeable future. Unless you are a lotto millionaire, footballer or a fortune teller, do NOT buy anything, certainly in Spain, France is not so bad. If you have the 'dosh' availabe, arrive, do not use an agent. Whatever the English owner of a property for sale says the price is, offer at least twenty five per cent less than the stated price. You will be buying a premises that has had a fortune spent on it buy the previous English owner who has been trying to impress his family and friends in the UK., that he is "doing well in France"' not true, the seller is "skint"' and hates France.

Read my previous posts. I am not bitter, I am trying to save my fellow countryman/women from making a great mistake.

In short, if you have to ask, "can I afford to move". For the moment, don't do it.

Regards, Fletch in France.


----------



## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> I can't work out what being a financial consultant has to do with the sun, either



Fletch in France.

Totally agree, sounds like a commercial ad. to me. But what the person says is absolutely correct.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted by HOFI
> As a qualified Financial Consultant, sunshine is ...


Sunshine is a qualified Financial Consultant?


----------



## Tippy (Nov 1, 2010)

Go for it kiddo, you only live once. We are doing something similar next month after many years of to ing and fro ing. But we are going to keep a base in England . We have owned in Spain for about 10 years . And we were of a similar mind about France / Spain question . Love France , speak passable french, but keep going back to Spain. You pays your money. Any way if you do it right you can always go back , although I know some people would say you're not committed . I always want a back up plan.


----------



## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

Good Evening Tilley.

It is nice to see that there is still a spirit of adventure from people in the U.K., that are able to afford their dreams. Who are prepared to travel, at their own expense without being a financial burden on other countries. If I may be so bold as to suggest some travel ideas that my wife ( Madame Crocodile) and I have used over the past twenty odd years, they may, possibly, be to your advantage.

Now that your children are at "uni", they are self sufficient and you should now,"cut the apron strings"' now it is your time of life after all those years of giving and self denial for the benefit of the children, they will be fine. Difficult for the ladies, yes indeed.

Consider your travel plans. My advice would be do not buy anything at all in Europe for the forseeable future. In Spain, arrive at a popular "Brit" resort, visit the bars and look on the notice boards, loads of places to rent by desperate " Brits"' do not accept the price given, be bold enough to negotiate. Failing that, if you are touring around, do not use the usual hotel chains, look for "Hostals". They are used by Spanish commercial travellers every day, every town/city has them, they are depicted by a blue background, with a large white H thereon. Very clean, comfortable, and always in the town/city centre. Also, at least thirty euros cheaper than the equivilant hotel. Be prepared to experiment.

Another idea. Rent a place in central France. ie. between Limoges and Brive. Loads of airports for for you to see the kids and vice versa. Use the great French railway system, daily to Barcelona, and soon to Madrid. On arrival, hire a car. "Let the train take the strain". The trains are not like the system in England.

Use July and August to return for a holiday to the U.K. As southern Spain is very hot in those months, many Spanish people from the south go north to the Asturias(northern Spain) for those months.

As technology has progressed. ie. mobile phones, ipads, credit cards, it just assists the casual traveller on an "adventure". Be bold, do it, you will not regret it.
If you would like further observations that may assist you, as experienced by "Le Croc " and I, please fell free to contact me off the forum.

Bonne Voyage. Fletch in France.


----------



## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Hi - I also recommend you go ahead and move to Spain, once you're sure you've done all the necessary research and preparation. I planned to come when I was 21 years old - even turned down a job offer here, knowing I had more time to make my much anticipated move. I did finally achieve my aim - 34 years later, lol! Life had intervened, but I was determined..!

Now, two things to consider - one is that the Spanish Government has proposed major changes to the long- term rental laws. I don't live in an area with many expats. so, apart from myself, almost all my neighbours here are Spanish - and they are seriously worried that we all may have, in future, just two months' security of tenure, should the landlords so wish it - regardless of our rental contracts (mine is for five years!).

Secondly, at present, Spanish rents rises are regulated and go up annually only in line with the cost of living - but the Govt. is now considering allowing landlords to charge whatever they wish, with no 'Fair Rental' Tribunal, such as exists in the UK, for tenants to call upon for an adjudication!

In the town where I live, there is actually a shortage of available rental properties, so rents have not decreased as other members here have seen happen in their own areas, despite very high levels of unemployment. The landlords here still call all the shots..!

Finally, if you keep an eye on the BBC News/Europe webpages you'll have seen today several articles and video clips re. the possible (here, Spanish friends would say ' definite..') bailout of the Spanish economy by the EEU! Who knows what further austerity measures might be put in place, despite the Govt.'s much publicised resistance, very, very soon...?

I'm not trying to put you, or anyone else off - just pointing out how crucial it is for all of us to keep up to date, daily, with these developments which are already affecting the Spanish Heath Care system, Education, Employment etc. and most definitely will continue to have a growing impact on us, as expats. along with our Spanish friends, neighbours and the Spanish population at large!

So, plans by any UK citizens for a move to Spain must, surely, take all of these matters fully into account. As a resident here, I'm involved with my own Spanish friends (and other foreigners) in discussions on these matters, daily. Everyone here is very preoccupied - and rightly so!

BTW - Angela Merkel and the so-called 'Troika' came to visit the Spanish Govt. only this week..!

GC.


----------



## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

if you are coming out here to live "year round", rent until you find a place then buy. If you need to supplement your income by buying places to rent out..don't. The problems of renting out can be greater than any profit. (we had one UK tenant that left the house infested with fleas and the fumigation cost was horrendous).

Bankers, politicians and stockbrokers can make manure out of your well laid plans (and probably sell it to the nearest mushroom farm) 

so, take what you have, put 30% aside for an "escape route", add to it when you can.


----------



## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi - I also recommend you go ahead and move to Spain, once you're sure you've done all the necessary research and preparation. I planned to come when I was 21 years old - even turned down a job offer here, knowing I had more time to make my much anticipated move. I did finally achieve my aim - 34 years later, lol! Life had intervened, but I was determined..!
> 
> Now, two things to consider - one is that the Spanish Government has proposed major changes to the long- term rental laws. I don't live in an area with many expats. so, apart from myself, almost all my neighbours here are Spanish - and they are seriously worried that we all may have, in future, just two months' security of tenure, should the landlords so wish it - regardless of our rental contracts (mine is for five years!).
> 
> ...


Well said excellent advice. I personally would not describe Merkel and co. As the Troika,
But more like The Three Stooges. Best wishes, keep withe sensible advice. Fletch in France


----------



## Tippy (Nov 1, 2010)

It seems that most of the replies above say not to buy property, but to rent . I agree. British seem to have this ingrained desire to own property.I own quite a few rental properties in England. And if I could wave a magic wand and make them all go away , I would.I have been in this business for more than 30 years , so I have nearly seen it all. I have also rented property in Spain. Ditto. Just because it seems like the best option for an income it can turn into your worst nightmare.. Whereas if you rent in any country if you don't like where you are you can just move,the landlord is responsible for maintenance. If you are a good tenant the landlord will beg you to stay and make it your home.Capital appreciation at the moment is unlikely in the next few years,and could still drop furthur .If and when you find where you want to be, then you can buy. You might find that your landlord is more than happy to sell and only rented out because he couldn't sell. We are considering touring round in a camper , France / Spain. You never know when you might drop on your perfect place.


----------



## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

Tippy said:


> It seems that most of the replies above say not to buy property, but to rent . I agree. British seem to have this ingrained desire to own property.I own quite a few rental properties in England. And if I could wave a magic wand and make them all go away , I would.I have been in this business for more than 30 years , so I have nearly seen it all. I have also rented property in Spain. Ditto. Just because it seems like the best option for an income it can turn into your worst nightmare.. Whereas if you rent in any country if you don't like where you are you can just move,the landlord is responsible for maintenance. If you are a good tenant the landlord will beg you to stay and make it your home.Capital appreciation at the moment is unlikely in the next few years,and could still drop furthur .If and when you find where you want to be, then you can buy. You might find that your landlord is more than happy to sell and only rented out because he couldn't sell. We are considering touring round in a camper , France / Spain. You never know when you might drop on your perfect place.


Tippy, you are indeed correct. I also own rental proprty in U.K. When .i lived there, not to much of a problem. Now I live in France, property rentals are the only "thorn in my side" that I have in my life. The attitude towards landlords, not the tenants, is deplorable. Just because you were shrewd enough to buy property as an investment instead of sticking your money in a nice safe, boring bank, you are now treated by both tenant and local townhall officials as some sort of millionaire monster who treats renters like animals. Not true. I consider myself to be a good landlord, who, numerous occasions has forgone monthly payments , to help people less fortunate than myself, including the children of tenants.. No more. My goodwill and help is now finished due to the current, greedy, dishonest attitude of tenants and also to the aparatchiks at the local town hall, not to mention, "the dead hand of beurocracy"' that pervades England.
I would also add that I have rented out properties in France for the ten years and have had absolutely no problems. All of my properties are returned, cleaner than when they were originally let. For that courtesy to me, the departing renter(always French)' gets a nice cash, thank you present for looking after my property. I am now having to have one apartment in the U.K. completeley gutted out and refurbished at my expense, yes, its good fun being a landlord in the U.K.

Regards. Fletch in France.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tippy said:


> It seems that most of the replies above say not to buy property, but to rent . I agree. British seem to have this ingrained desire to own property.I own quite a few rental properties in England. And if I could wave a magic wand and make them all go away , I would.I have been in this business for more than 30 years , so I have nearly seen it all. I have also rented property in Spain. Ditto. Just because it seems like the best option for an income it can turn into your worst nightmare.. Whereas if you rent in any country if you don't like where you are you can just move,the landlord is responsible for maintenance. If you are a good tenant the landlord will beg you to stay and make it your home.Capital appreciation at the moment is unlikely in the next few years,and could still drop furthur .If and when you find where you want to be, then you can buy. You might find that your landlord is more than happy to sell and only rented out because he couldn't sell. We are considering touring round in a camper , France / Spain. You never know when you might drop on your perfect place.


Your experience is similar to ours. We too owned properties in the UK and abroad which we rented out for a few years but eventually sold as we had had enough of 'difficult' tenants. I'm not surprised the Spanish Government has tightened the laws relating to rentals. Our very good landlord has just lost thiousands of euros on a tenant who paid no rent for almost a year, didn't pay water or electricity bills and left the property in a disgusting state shortly before he was due to appear in Court - more money wasted.

As you correctly say, if you are a good tenant your landlord will in most cases realise his/her good fortune. Having been good landlords, we are now good tenants. Our landlord has had so many bad experiences with tenants that he is leaving his property empty rather than risk another free-loader taking advantage of him.

Of course not all landlords are saints but there is a tendency in some quarters to see all tenants as 'under dogs'. At this time the power is firmly in the hands of the tenant. Our first experience of renting here was not good. So we broke our contract, lived out the time we'd paid on deposit and found a much better place to live, the house we have been living in happily for almost four years.

And I agree with you.....if our landlord decides he's had enough of renting in Spain which I'm sure he would if we decided to leave, and wants to sell......it would be an ideal property for my dil who has expressed an interest as the property comes with a large double plot with building permission.

No way would I buy property in Spain at this time when there are so many rental properties and it's a renter's market.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I can't work out what being a financial consultant has to do with the sun, either


As with any other person or profession, too much sun can go to your head...


Like everyone here, I've put in my tuppence-worth of advice about moving to Spain. But when we decided to move and I had found this wonderful forum the only advice I took note of was that which related to procedures and requirements for life in Spain...registering for residencia, NIE, the padron, opening a bank account, what to do about my UK and Czech -registered cars...(sell!) and so on.

The rest was down to me. Everyone's experiences, tastes, needs and outlook is different. There is no 'one way' to relocate. Even the practicalities of the move itself will be done according to individual circumstances.....large removal company? rent a van? sell everything and start anew?

Would anyone with a family consider a move without consulting them or discussing it with their partner, I wonder? One would also hope that a cool look at one's financial situation would be Priority Number One. Some knowledge of the country and region you are considering relocating to would seem to be essential, no? Knowledge of the language might also help.....

In my mind there is no substitute for learning the 'facts on the ground'. All the complex and well-meaning advice in the world -much of it highly personal and for that reason perhaps not transferable - won't help half as much as a fact-finding trip of a couple of months' duration or a trip around in a campervan, motorhome or whatever.

What makes for a good experience in Spain or anywhere are those highly individual, extremely personal and above all hard to pin down little incidents that 
are so varied that they are impossible to describe.

It took me a good five or six months to feel 'right' in Spain even though we knew this area. What did it were a series of trivial events ....a friendly word from a neighbour, walking our dog to the deserted beach at sunset, a cool beer in a cafe on a hot day...

And if the events had been unpleasant in any way....noisy neighbours, being cheated by tradespeople, rubbish-strewn public places....I might still be living here unhappily.

Some things you can't plan for.


----------



## Ziggy99 (Sep 7, 2012)

Regarding renting what are the extra costs? Are electricity, water, community taxes and Internet normal extras besides the monthly rent? Is it possible to rent a house month by month before leaving home country or is it preferable to come to Spain and rent a hotel room while looking for longer rental accommodations. For this year we just want to spend three winter months around Malaga or any city in this area that has a university where we can take Spanish classes and offer conversational English courses on a volunteer basis, find a church and be near a mercado. Do not really want to rent a car long term (maybe weekends occasionally) but would like to be close to water in a safe secure area (is theft a big problem in southern Spain ie home invasions?).

Thanks for any feedback and sorry if this is posted in the wrong thread.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Ziggy99 said:


> Regarding renting what are the extra costs? Are electricity, water, community taxes and Internet normal extras besides the monthly rent? Is it possible to rent a house month by month before leaving home country or is it preferable to come to Spain and rent a hotel room while looking for longer rental accommodations. For this year we just want to spend three winter months around Malaga or any city in this area that has a university where we can take Spanish classes and offer conversational English courses on a volunteer basis, find a church and be near a mercado. Do not really want to rent a car long term (maybe weekends occasionally) but would like to be close to water in a safe secure area (is theft a big problem in southern Spain ie home invasions?).
> 
> Thanks for any feedback and sorry if this is posted in the wrong thread.


hello again!

you asked a similar question the other day - http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ng-spain/124911-winter-rental.html#post891627
there's a reply there for you already


----------

