# Water heating



## honeyvalley

Electric v:confused2: gas

we are looking for instant tabious water heater, dont want to be storing hot water we dont use, however which would you recommend for a family house.


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## canoeman

As you say you don't want to store then the only option is gas, all other forms require some storage and electric type shower heaters are rarely found here.


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## MrBife

honeyvalley said:


> Electric v:confused2: gas
> 
> we are looking for instant tabious water heater, dont want to be storing hot water we dont use, however which would you recommend for a family house.



A Solar Heating system would be a bit more expensive initially but could save money dependent on your actual use. The electric instantaneous things are very prone to build up of scale (hard water) and aren't used here for that reason I guess. Otherwise as canoeman suggests one of the newer 'escantador' units running on bottled gas. The better ones have electronic ignition (rather than a pilot light) that fire it up when you open a tap.


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## siobhanwf

I would go for solar panels. We did three years ago and have never looked back.

We reckon that we are now on TOTALLY FREE water heating and the unit has now paid for itself


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## travelling-man

siobhanwf said:


> I would go for solar panels. We did three years ago and have never looked back.
> 
> We reckon that we are now on TOTALLY FREE water heating and the unit has now paid for itself


Do you ever have bad weather days/weeks when the solar hot water isn't hot enough?

I'll soon be installing a system but wonder if I shouldn't put in an electric power shower as well just in case..... I thought about them furring up but the units are cheap enough and It'd only be used as an occasional standby.


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## canoeman

Solar doesn't have to have direct sunlight especially with evacuated tubes, as MrBife says you'll find it difficult to get electric showers here, I'd check your water hardness first.
It's better in the long term to include your winter heating into the hot water system as a total package.


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## travelling-man

I don't think supply or even price is an issue. Amazon offer the Triton range for about UKP60 or so.... water hardness may well be an issue but at that price it's not really a problem to buy a new one from time to time.

All that said, if the solar is good enough even on a bad day, then there's no need for the electric option.


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## siobhanwf

Must admit we have had HOT HOT water since we installed ours. But we went for an inside tank not one on the roof. We have just NO electrics for water heating since February last year and that was only used for topping up!!


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## canoeman

With Portuguese wiring you'll need a direct cable back to fuse box, you'll trip everything otherwise.
It's not really about price but planning and making allowances for adding to a basic solar system, if you can or find the need to, for me the panels that store a small quantity of hot water aren't worth the money, so when we added back boiler, we made provision to tie back boiler, diesel boiler, solar panels into one hot water system with 300ltr, so when there wasn't sufficient solar hot water the other two could kick in to top up, especially when we have family visiting.
I make the point about planning, because Portuguese houses of any type are not the easiest to make alterations to.


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## travelling-man

Met with a solar installer today and he recommended the same thing... he wants to put the hot water tank in the same room as the diesel boiler and connect it to both systems. 

I can underatand the logic of that but would have thought it better to put the tank in the loft next to the panels and above the kitchen and bathroom and then pipe between the diesel boiler which is downstairs but he seems to think otherwise and as he's the expert, I'll bow to his greater knowledge.


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## travelling-man

Met with a solar installer today and he recommended the same thing... he wants to put the hot water tank in the same room as the diesel boiler and connect it to both systems. 

I can underatand the logic of that but would have thought it better to put the tank in the loft next to the panels and above the kitchen and bathroom and then pipe between the diesel boiler which is downstairs but he seems to think otherwise and as he's the expert, I'll bow to his greater knowledge.


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## honeyvalley

Thank you to everyone for your advice, 

I am trying to think long term buts currently we are only using the property as a holiday home although in the future we intend to retire to portugal. In the short term while we only need water for short periods and will go for a less costly alternative and will then look for an intergrated heating and hot water system in the longer term when both heating and hot water are required.

so for the moment it looks like instant hot water using gas.

Yours
Honeyvalley


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## canoeman

Understandable, but I would suggest if you're having work down or new piping installed you think long term, most electric cables, TV co-axial and flexible water piping here is run through a larger diameter pipe, so if work is being done it is worthwhile and cheaper in the long run to run the first fix piping, and then at a later date it's only a matter of pulling the services through, this applies to C/H rads as well, it really is worthwhile working out exactly what you want for the house and each area and room.


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## canoeman

For those with existing Diesel boilers our installers told us today about a Bio-mass (wood pellets to us) conversion unit. Price depends on boiler rating, ours is a 30W so around 2500€, but considering cost of diesel currently 1.39€ ltr payback should be well under 2 years.

1 ltr of diesel = 2 Kg of pellets which are appox 0,25c a Kg


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## Algarve

MrBife said:


> A Solar Heating system would be a bit more expensive initially but could save money dependent on your actual use. The electric instantaneous things are very prone to build up of scale (hard water) and aren't used here for that reason I guess. Otherwise as canoeman suggests one of the newer 'escantador' units running on bottled gas. The better ones have electronic ignition (rather than a pilot light) that fire it up when you open a tap.


I stupidly had solar installed was talked in to having a very large 440 ltr one installed for the 6 bathrooms now when it gets heavy cloud the poor little element has a job to heat such large amount ,let alone the cost,
it rely depends on how you feel as gas is fine but make sure it is service at least once a years way up the pros and cons it might be an electric one gets furred up but that might be worth just replacing it every 4 years with little cost in the long run


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## canoeman

Sorry Algarve but what are you advocating? solar, electric, gas? seems as if you've edited some bits out


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## Algarve

canoeman said:


> Sorry Algarve but what are you advocating? solar, electric, gas? seems as if you've edited some bits out


copy and pasted from the document I was using and not sure what it has done, reads gobblegook sorry


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## Algarve

if I had the choice now I would go with the gas water heater, easy to install and very effective, I have fitted one as back up to a downstairs bathroom and no hassle, what I forgot to say about the electric ones are that you have to empty them if not using or the water will just sit there with possible rust problems


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