# Problem with house purchase



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

At present we are in the UK. On Friday we made an offer on an apartment in Torrevieja. The offer was accepted by email. On Saturday the agent informed us there was now a another interested party who were viewing the property on Monday. We made a reasonable offer of about 10% down on the listed price. We obviously haven't been able to make the reserve yet and that could take a couple of days. What should we do? If the other party make a better offer and pay the reserve before us and we have sent money is there a possibility that we might have put ourselves in a vulnerable position?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

They could be telling Porkies too. Tell them you will pay the reservation to your Lawyers. Getting money back from most Agents is like getting blood out of a stone.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

If offer has been accepted and you have proof of that via email then the offer has been accepted.
Even a verbal agreement in Spain is legal although hard to prove.
The reserve is somewhat meaningless really.

Yes, tell them your lawyers shall see to it and tell them they have already accepted the offer and you will be starting the conveyancing process and shall need a copy of the nota simple now please. Do not hand over any money to anyone else but your lawyer/gestor until they have had a chance to look at the nota simple.

At least that way you have a paper trail with your clear intentions to go through the purchasing process and they will have been put back in their box.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks. The agent who we have been dealing with us has said that although the offer has been accepted the owner is still entitled to consider other offers until the reserve has been paid. If I was in Spain this would be easy to do but being in the UK means the process will obviously take longer and gives the owner something of an advantage. My worry is sending money having signed no agreement for anything. To be honest I don't think there is any other interest and that they are just trying to get us to do the deal as fast as possible.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I think you are right in as much as it is just a tactic to speed things up but he is still full of it.
We heard the same too and not at any point did we pay the reserve money, it´s an invention from agents to make more money.

You can´t be expected to handover any money to anyone without knowing if the property is fully legal first and they know that too.
He needs to provide you with the nota simple before any money is handed over, it´s the first thing a bank would ask for if you had a mortgage and the first thing a lawyer will ask for too.
You probably need a lawyer now if you haven´t already got one.

And once again, your offer has been accepted, now the owner can consider any other offers all he likes but he can´t sell it to anyone else as long as you can demonstrate that you intend to go through with the purchase. He can have more viewings though, that is not a problem as it is wise to have a fall back option.

A simple google search in English for "verbal agreements in Spain" is very clear on the law, the agent is full of it. Then again that is of little surprise.


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## piersuk (Nov 13, 2015)

I can give you some examples from personal experience and some very close friends who found themselves in the same situation as you appear to be in.

In our case, we found a property which we instantly had our hearts set on. It ticked all the boxes in respect of price, location and lock up and leave prospect!

It was left to my wife to view and negotiate on price as I was laid up with my back.

The had exactly the same waffle form the estate agent, thanks for your offer but there are two other people viewing it next week. They then told us that for a 3000€ fee they would stop marketing the property and if we met the timescales the property would be ours. Excluding matters of illegality as highlighted at any point later.

I managed to drag out the negotiations with my own waffle and delaying. It's hard to remember that it is a buyers market and the estate agent needs a buyer most if not all will be in the same cautious position as you.

In the time of my delaying I managed to get the contract the estate agent wanted me to sign. This is normal practice. With that contract I changed and added clauses which seemed sensible to me, you don't need to be a lawyer to work out that the seller must settle up bills before they leave! There were several other clauses, I can did it out if you want the details? I then managed to email it to my lawyer who I had only contacted the day after my wife's trip. 

This part is *ESSENTIAL - GET A LAWYER ON BOARD NOW! * in my experience I would only every use a Spanish Lawyer, you're in Spain after all. 

I then emailed the contract the agents had sent me with my additions. My lawyer told me this was a contract between me and the agents, though she did offer a couple of tips so a couple more changes were made. One thing that was highlighted was a ridiculously short time scale applied to process. 

- Informal contract exchanged with 3000€
- 7 days later the 10%
- 21 days later - Balance

Our lawyer told us to extend that from 7 days to 21days and for the balance to 8 weeks. She did say this was an overkill but to be safe.

I then had to bit the bullet and pay that 3000€, may be I was a bit cavalier about it but I figured that if I wanted to buy the place I had to do something. Comforted with the knowledge the contract was safe enough I paid.

I used Transferwise so money arrived the next day.

Everything went well.

By contrast friends of ours rushed in at the end of a holiday and signed up for 200,000€ apartment. They paid their 3000€ there and then and were going to do the whole thing without a solicitor. 
I eventually persuaded them against this and they too went with our solicitor. She tore the contract they had signed apart. They had made promises to complete the purchase with 21 days, that's paying 200000€ in 21days!!!!!!! After 18 days solicitor found the property was built within the coast line boundary and effectively illegal. They have lost there 3000€, never to see it again. 

They were told that there were 4 others ready to buy the place, in fact they were shown the diary and told there was a competing offer, wicked really! Guess what, the place is still for sale, 5 months later!!!!

I would do nothing different in the future and I intend to buy second place within a couple of years. 

It comes down I guess to your bottle and faith of the estate agency game in Spain.....
Why not ask them to send you their contract, hang on to that for a couple of days and sort out a lawyer. Tell the agents things they want to hear. Then tell them you are just running it past a lawyer (DO SPEAK TO A LAWYER)... There is another couple of days. I bet in a weeks time it's all still on the table for you...... 

Oh and remember two things, it's a buyers market and there are thousands of properties for sale in Spain!

Hope that's not helps a bit. let me know if I can help more.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

For info - CurrencyFair will now transfer money in just two hours.


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## piersuk (Nov 13, 2015)

I think Transferwise may do the same if it's to an established and previously used account within your account.. 

Back to the OP - Thinking about it I knew it was next day when I transferred money to the estate agent, they didn't know that so I got another 4 days grace....


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## rspltd (Jul 5, 2016)

If you offered only 10% less than the asking price, the agent will fight tooth and and nail to get you on his hook. The games the agents play are pathetic - has he negotiated a better deal with the owner yet? - but they still trap a lot of people. You will probably find that the owner doesn't realise what price the agent is asking - theirs would probably be much less.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

By the agent I meant the immobaliria so the venders know what I am paying as they have to agree to the pre-sale agreement. I think there is also some misunderstandings when it comes to things like nota simple which won't be presented to us until after the pre-sale agreement as this is prepared by the notaria. As for paying money separately to take the property of the market without that being taken off the final price that seems to be something that happens more with expats than Spanish. We do all our negotiations in Spanish and I have never been asked this. Use to pay 10% of agreed price as a deposit but even that has now pretty much disappeared in a buyers market. We barely paid 5%. 

If you are conducting everything in English you are at a slight disadvantage and I think this is what causes so much confusion.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

kaipa said:


> By the agent I meant the immobaliria so the venders know what I am paying as they have to agree to the pre-sale agreement. I think there is also some misunderstandings when it comes to things like nota simple which won't be presented to us until after the pre-sale agreement as this is prepared by the notaria. As for paying money separately to take the property of the market without that being taken off the final price that seems to be something that happens more with expats than Spanish. We do all our negotiations in Spanish and I have never been asked this. Use to pay 10% of agreed price as a deposit but even that has now pretty much disappeared in a buyers market. We barely paid 5%.
> 
> If you are conducting everything in English you are at a slight disadvantage and I think this is what causes so much confusion.


Hi,
Tell them that you have found somewhere else and that you would like to withdraw your offer.
That way, if they don't have another buyer - they may try to get you to continue the purchase at your agreed price (rather than lose the sale).
At least this puts you back in the driving seat and them on the back foot!
Best of luck
Steve


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I think there is also some misunderstandings when it comes to things like nota simple which won't be presented to us until after the pre-sale agreement as this is prepared by the notaria.


The nota simple won't be prepared by the notaria. You get that from the Registro de Propriedades. If the agent has told you it will be done by the notaria, he/she is misleading you. With any estate agent I have had any dealings with in Spain, they have wanted the vendor to give them a copy of the nota simple before listing the property.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well sounds like the agent/immo guy is feeding you crap, I would walk from this as he is deliberately misleading you for whatever purpose.

Been there, done that and could write a book on it.

People should ask for a copy of it(NS) before they even make an offer, we did every time and all agents bar a couple complied, the ones that didn't lost a sale but more importantly it probably saved us more headaches in the future.

You need the most current copy of the Nota Simple before you sign a thing, or Copia Simple if that helps. You can even get a copy of it yourself online if you have the right info but why on Earth should you have to, they should have it at hand already.
https://www.registradores.org/propiedad/pags/condiciones/instrucciones.jsp
If they refuse then you can only assume there are going to be problems with that property.

You need a lawyer more though. Someone independent.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Tell them that you have found somewhere else and that you would like to withdraw your offer.
> That way, if they don't have another buyer - they may try to get you to continue the purchase at your agreed price (rather than lose the sale).
> At least this puts you back in the driving seat and them on the back foot!
> ...


Got the presale agreement yesterday and read through it as it is a fairly standard set of clauses. Sets out the price minus deposit, inventory of that which is being taken ( not left), conditions of failure to complete by both sides, last date on which sale is to be completed by, plusvalia etc. Money sent to client account. Next step is to get the contract which will go to the lawyer and an agreed date at the Notaria.
So far so good


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