# Desperate for help in securing residency



## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

First of all - apologies for posting what I imagine you are getting countless similar posts on at the moment. I know you must be sick of it!

All being well (i.e. covid doesn't prevent us from flyin) me and my boyfriend will be moving to Malaga at the start of September.

I know that we need to secure long-term residency before the end of the year to retain our pre-Brexit rights - but the process is mind-boggling.

I'm aware we will need:

- A permanent address.
- Health insurance (since we won't initially be paying tax in Spain - which as I understand it is okay).
- To complete the "Solicitud Documento de residencia Artículo
50 TUE para nacionales del Reino Unido
(emitido de conformidad con el artículo 18.4
del Acuerdo de retirada)"

That's where it gets tricky because it appears we need things like:

- A legal representative in Spain?
- ID number (a Spanish ID number? Because we don't have that!)
- A tax identification number (again initially we don't believe we will be paying tax in Spain so won't have that either).

Any help is REALLY appreciated!

Alternatively if anyone can point me in the direction of someone/where I can find someone to help me through this process, I would be very grateful. Obviously I'm expecting to pay for that help and I am happy to.

Thank you!


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## Pipeman (Apr 1, 2016)

Hi, 

We're a couple of weeks ahead of you in the process 

Assuming you're not officially retired and also not looking for work, then you need 

Proof of accommodation (house deeds or rental agreement) for where you are living in Spain
Proof of funds- ideally held in a Spanish bank account for 3 months
Proof of medical insurance with no exemptions and no co-payments

The "tax / id number" is the NIE number and can be obtained independently of TIE (residency) or will be issued as part of the residency application process. I recommend getting it independently as you need it to open a bank account / buy a car / mobile / utilities etc...

If you send me a PM I'll give you the name of the person who I'm using to arrange my paperwork / make the necessary appointments etc.- this is a gestor function and is significantly cheaper than an abrigado (solicitor).

Good luck, and don't forget to do your driving licences before the end of the year!


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## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you so much!

No we're not retired and both employed. Thankfully we don't drive so that's one thing we don't need to worry about!

I will PM you for the name of the person helping you.

Thank you again


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Amy123123 said:


> Thank you so much!
> 
> No we're not retired and both employed. Thankfully we don't drive so that's one thing we don't need to worry about!
> 
> ...


You will have to make several more posts before you can PM


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## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi again. I can't find how to PM you  I've just seen that I may need a premium account?


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## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Megsmum said:


> You will have to make several more posts before you can PM


Ah I see - thank you! 

I'll have to wait a little then. 

Thank you both for being so kind and helpful. This is such an intimidating process but I'm determined make this move happen.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

You say you are both working - I presume that's in UK and not Spain?

If it's Spain, then you have income and health care covered already.

If it's in UK, then be careful, you may have to register as self-employed in Spain which means paying tax here and making SS payments here (like National Insurance in UK). Living in one country and working in another is a minefield (even if it's work via the internet)


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## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Yes it's in the UK, not Spain. We both work remotely.

And yep sorting out payments and tax is another minefield to navigate 

With my employer I am looking at becoming a "contractor", which I assume will mean I can register as self-employed in Spain...

I was under the (probably incorrect) impression that this wouldn't be too much of a concern until next year (i.e. post-Brexit) though?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

In order to get residence document (TIE), you need to meet the requirement as autonomo (self-employed) in Spain, which will also meet the rules for healthcare coverage. Unless you are fluent in Spanish and have a working knowledge of Spanish red tape, get the help of a gestor or lawyer. You need to do this before you apply for TIE.


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## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Eek okay - thank you. 

My Spanish is muy mala ahora mismo, pero estoy aprendiendo.

I definitely don't have any knowledge of Spanish red tape!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Amy123123 said:


> Eek okay - thank you.
> 
> My Spanish is muy mala ahora mismo, pero estoy aprendiendo.
> 
> I definitely don't have any knowledge of Spanish red tape!


You don't need a legal representative. The vast majority of people do it all by themselves even if they don't speak more than a few words of Spanish. 

All they do is check that your paperwork is in order. There's no interview & they know why you're there. 

The Spanish govt has produced this in English to help you. It & the original Spanish are in our FAQs sticky.

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/e...conjunta Brexit _documento residencia_EN.pdf


You start with form EX20 - go to p11 of the document


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## Ben2013 (May 22, 2013)

In my case I initially tried to sort residency myself. I then realised Spain was too bureaucratic.
I then used the sévices of a solicitor who did not charge me much and I was extremely satisfied with the great customer service and speed with which she got everything sorted out and I do not know if the forum will allow me to post their details. They offer their services to all public.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Ben2013 said:


> In my case I initially tried to sort residency myself. I then realised Spain was too bureaucratic.
> I then used the sévices of a solicitor who did not charge me much and I was extremely satisfied with the great customer service and speed with which she got everything sorted out and I do not know if the forum will allow me to post their details. They offer their services to all public.


I'm glad you have got everything sorted out and are pleased with the paid help you got but you really are wrong in saying Spain is 'too bureaucratic'. Try applying for residency in a post-Communist country as I did or even English speaking countries like Canada or the U.S. 

Every country has procedures with which you must comply in order to acquire residency. From what I understand there has been a change in the process since July in that if you live in Malaga Province you now have to present your documentation at the office in Malaga City and then make an appointment with your local foreign police. When we did ours in 2008 the process was unbelievably smooth. We got all the help we needed from this Forum even down to the Solicitud which we downloaded from the Stickies. We queued for about ten minutes at the police station in Estepona and after an hour came out with an NIE and Residencia each. We actually only went for an NIE but the helpful English-speaking official asked if we would like to be residents so of course we said Yes!!

Unlike officialdom in Prague where I lived I have found Spanish 'bureaucrats' unfailingly polite and always willing to help. I changed my driving licence, signed on the padron, got my health card, renewed my driving licence with help from members of this Forum when I was unsure of anything.

We don't want to put people off by making them think that dealing with officialdom here could be difficult because apart from the one miserable sod you'll come across anywhere you'll nearly always be met with a smile and a willingness to help you accomplish the task in hand.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If working in UK but living in Spain you will both need to register as self-employed. First that will mean you need to set that up ASAP. You might be asked to show 3 months income to prove it's not just a false autonomo. Be aware that self employment in spain will mean fixed monthly payments irrespective of income and irrespective of tax!. It will rise to approx 280 euros after a year or so. Secondly check that you can be autonomo with only one client. I might be wrong but I thought that you needed not to be seen as being effectively a defacto employee.


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## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

kaipa said:


> If working in UK but living in Spain you will both need to register as self-employed. First that will mean you need to set that up ASAP. You might be asked to show 3 months income to prove it's not just a false autonomo. Be aware that self employment in spain will mean fixed monthly payments irrespective of income and irrespective of tax!. It will rise to approx 280 euros after a year or so. Secondly check that you can be autonomo with only one client. I might be wrong but I thought that you needed not to be seen as being effectively a defacto employee.


There must be an alternative to self-employment? I'm sure I've read about it. It's complicated so getting a UK employer to comply wouldn't be easy but I'm sure there's a way to work for a UK company but pay taxes in Spain?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think someone else here can help you with that. You can do it but I seem to remember that it involves your UK employer havingto set up some kind of spanish SS account. Not sure but it was complicated and not many employers were willing to go through the required channels unless the employee was pretty important. Someone will explain shortly I'm sure.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Amy123123 said:


> There must be an alternative to self-employment? I'm sure I've read about it. It's complicated so getting a UK employer to comply wouldn't be easy but I'm sure there's a way to work for a UK company but pay taxes in Spain?


Yes it's possible - but potentially more complicated than being self-employed. 


For your residency, if you can show regular income into a bank account - it doesn't HAVE to be Spanish, but it's easier that way then getting translations - for the equivalent of 6 - 9k a year depending on where you are registering, that should be fine with private healthcare. 

Sort out the tax & employment issues afterwards.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Also, if you live near London, you can get an NIE number from the Spanish Embassy there. You need an appointment and it costs about 8 quid. You just need to take your passport and a photocopy of the details page, say you need an NIE number because you are buying property in Spain. (You DON¨T ACTUALLY have to buy). They will just ask for a reason why you need it. Also you need to fill in Form EX15.
They emailed me my NIE number about 10 or 14 days later.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Catalunya22 said:


> Also, if you live near London, you can get an NIE number from the Spanish Embassy there. You need an appointment and it costs about 8 quid. You just need to take your passport and a photocopy of the details page, say you need an NIE number because you are buying property in Spain. (You DON¨T ACTUALLY have to buy). They will just ask for a reason why you need it. Also you need to fill in Form EX15.
> They emailed me my NIE number about 10 or 14 days later.


Or... just get the NIE when regsitering for the TIE. 

I believe that although in the past you could get away with just 'saying' that you were buying, they usuall want some kind of proof as to why you need a NIE now. Becoming a resident is an accepted reason & a NIE will be issued at that stage.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Even if you get a Gestor to do it for you they can only do the first stage for you. You will have to go IN PERSON for stage 2 to have your fingerprints taken. And again IN PERSON to collect the residence certificate/card. (stage 3)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Can still accompany you for moral support and as interpreter.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

When I went myself they would only allow ME in. I don´t speak Spanish fluently but my partner does...they would still only allow ME in....
Luckily I managed, but others might not be so lucky..
I have to be honest...Public Officials here in Spain are GENERALLY not very helpful. That´s my experience anyway.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Local gestors and their staff are usually well known to front-line officials so I don't see any troubles.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Yes. But you have to pay for a Gestor.
I was happy to do all the paperwork myself so didn´t see the need to pay for one. I just needed help with the language and I had someone with me who could do that. But oh no....not allowed. Rules is rules.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Under the revised rules, there are separate application procedures for applicant, gestor and lawyer. So professional helper's role is defined and incorporated. That's how I read anyway as it's too new to find first-hand experience.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Well when the rules changed on 6 July I got chatting with a Spanish Gestor and it was ME who had to explain the new system to THEM.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Unfortunately if you asked 6 different Gestors the same question you would get 6 different answers.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Catalunya22;15148024..
I have to be honest...Public Officials here in Spain are GENERALLY not very helpful. That´s my experience anyway.[/QUOTE said:


> Yes, it's YOUR experience and therefore not a general one. My experiences are different.
> 
> As I said, you will always get one miserable sod, may have had a row with his/her partner, may be feeling unwell, may be stressed if s/he has had to deal with loads of non-Spanish speaking people, who knows.
> They're human, after all.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Luckily my local gestor is well informed and is au fait with the new procedure.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, it's YOUR experience and therefore not a general one. My experiences are different.
> 
> As I said, you will always get one miserable sod, may have had a row with his/her partner, may be feeling unwell, may be stressed if s/he has had to deal with loads of non-Spanish speaking people, who knows.
> They're human, after all.



Yes of course I can only state my experience obviously, but that doesn´t make it any more or less valid than your experience does it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Under the revised rules, there are separate application procedures for applicant, gestor and lawyer. So professional helper's role is defined and incorporated. That's how I read anyway as it's too new to find first-hand experience.


The steps are VERY clearly set out in the govt. document - & there's even an English version. Both are in our FAQs sticky thread. 

I'm in daily contact with A LOT of people who have already gone through the process & those exchanging have described it as the simplest procedure they have ever been through in Spain & some already have their shiny new TIEs in hand.

Those applying for the first time are also surprised at how simple it all is. 

I suspect it's because it's a new procedure, & staff have been recently & specifically trained to deal with it.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

BUT BUT BUT

As everyone knows, each area, region and village will interpret the rules differently, how many times was I told on here I did not have to prove income again when I applied for my permanent residency papers.. and yet I did... as did other and others did no mor than turn up.

I suspect here they will be asking for proof of everything again and have resigned myself to that fact


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> BUT BUT BUT
> 
> As everyone knows, each area, region and village will interpret the rules differently, how many times was I told on here I did not have to prove income again when I applied for my permanent residency papers.. and yet I did... as did other and others did no mor than turn up.
> 
> I suspect here they will be asking for proof of everything again and have resigned myself to that fact


I'll be surprised if you have problems, because you have to go to the Provincial extranjería, not the local one, and the staff dealing with this have had specific special training.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> I'll be surprised if you have problems, because you have to go to the Provincial extranjería, not the local one, and the staff dealing with this have had specific special training.


Is that at the policía national? Because that’s where we went for our permanent residency?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Is that at the policía national? Because that’s where we went for our permanent residency?


Was that in the provincial capital? 

I originally registered at the extranjería in the policía nacional in Dénia, but have to go to the provincial capital for this, in Alicante.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> Was that in the provincial capital?
> 
> I originally registered at the extranjería in the policía nacional in Dénia, but have to go to the provincial capital for this, in Alicante.


Ah, that’s interesting. We registered at the extranjería in Caceres, if you live in the province of Badajoz your would have registered there. The capital is Mérida. Thank you


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

The off topic discussion is now here

https://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/1505124-should-funcionarios-spain-speak-english.html


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