# Moving to UK Next Year... Help?



## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Hey everyone,
I'm new to the forum 

So my plan is to move to the UK next year (2011) and I'm not really fussy where, though London would be ideal as I'm familiar with the place from two previous trips.

I'm a qualified Audio Engineer (received my Diploma last year) and I complete my Bachelor of Audio Production in June this year. My aim is to move to the UK sometime between March and April in 2011.

So, here are some of my many many questions: 

1. Job situations? Is there anything for Audio Engineers/anything in the music industry?
2. Living? Is rent ultra expensive? Where are the "good" areas to live in terms of safety/cost?
3. Visas? I'm thinking of getting a 6 month work visa to start & then extending...?
4. Locations? Where's best to go in the UK for living/job prospects?
5. Expat societies/groups? I don't want to be alone, lol.

That's all I can think of for now, but I know there'll be a load more once I've got the answers to these, haha. Also, it's a little off-topic but to live there for an extended period:

1. How long do you have to stay in the UK to apply for residency?
2. Does that have to be ex amount non-stop?
3. Do I have to be a resident to buy a property? (I'm aware this won't happen for quite some time, but it's something I'm curious about)

Alrighty, thanks very much for taking the time to read/answer my barrage of questions, any information or answers you can give me would be mega helpful!


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## saurabh.the.expat (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi Lara S!

I will try to help, however I could be wrong somewhere so you may need to get it confirmed by a native.Let's see how much I can be helpful to you...........lol...
Well, You may have to be in th UK for atleast 3 to 5 years to get a permanet residency there.
Ofcourse, London (especially South-East London) is very expensive to live. However, loads of money making good jobs there! You could get some cheaper rented accomodation too if you stayed off to London. It entirely depends on your life style though. Say, you could save pounds by utilising public transport.
Yes, I do guess that you will have to be a resident of UK to buy property there.
Lastly, You may sure get expat forums and friends once you have really moved to the UK.
Good Luck!
Sau....


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

saurabh.the.expat said:


> Hi Lara S!
> 
> I will try to help, however I could be wrong somewhere so you may need to get it confirmed by a native.Let's see how much I can be helpful to you...........lol...
> Well, You may have to be in th UK for atleast 3 to 5 years to get a permanet residency there.
> ...


Hey man, thanks heaps for replying 
Do you know if it has to be a straight 3 to 5 years or am I able to come back and forth between there and Australia?
Haha, not sure if I have the right qualifications for a huge money making job, however my lifestyle isn't one of the ones where I need to feel rich and powerful in my massive flat, lol. I'm cool not living IN London, do you know any decent/safe/cheaper places in the surrounding areas?

Thanks again!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lara_S said:


> Hey man, thanks heaps for replying
> Do you know if it has to be a straight 3 to 5 years or am I able to come back and forth between there and Australia?
> Haha, not sure if I have the right qualifications for a huge money making job, however my lifestyle isn't one of the ones where I need to feel rich and powerful in my massive flat, lol. I'm cool not living IN London, do you know any decent/safe/cheaper places in the surrounding areas?


You can't just move to UK and stay unless you have the right to do so or obtain a suitable visa. If you don't have right of abode (effectively having a British parent) or a British or another EU passport, you have to have a visa. If you have a grandparent (either side) born in UK, you can get a 5-year ancestry visa allowing you to live and work. After 5 years, you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (ILR) or permanent residency. If you aren't eligible for ancestry, then your choice is either two-year Youth Mobility Scheme visa (if you are under 30 - but doesn't lead to ILR) or work visa through points based system. The last will be the toughest. You won't have enough points for highly skilled (Tier 1 General), so you have to rely on sponsorship route - that is, you need to have a potential job lined up and your employer 'sponsors' you for a visa by showing they cannot find another eligible applicant capable of doing the job because of the specialised nature of the post. This, as you'd imagine, is quite difficult for a recently-qualified audio engineer, as there are loads of experienced people in the industry already looking for jobs and the recession is deep and persisting.
You cannot get a 6-month visitor leave to enter (Australians don't need a tourist visa) and work. If found out, you'll be deported or if the Border Agency suspect what you are up to, you won't be allowed in and sent on the next plane home. Don't do it!
So it doesn't look very promising, but if you can give us a bit more details, we may be able to help you further.
Anyone can buy a property in UK and you don't have to be a resident, but you should rent, not buy, until you are established over here and have finance (or are able to get a mortgage).


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## saurabh.the.expat (Jan 12, 2010)

Oopes! I was wrong there guessing only resident can buy property in th UK...........Wish I had billions pounds to buy one  lol........
Once again, Good Luck! Lara S...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

saurabh.the.expat said:


> Oopes! I was wrong there guessing only resident can buy property in th UK...........Wish I had billions pounds to buy one  lol........
> Once again, Good Luck! Lara S...


Many expensive properties in and around London are owned by billionaire non-residents, including oil sheiks and Russian magnates! Though their properties may be held through a holding compeny for tax and other reasons.


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Joppa said:


> You can't just move to UK and stay unless you have the right to do so or obtain a suitable visa. If you don't have right of abode (effectively having a British parent) or a British or another EU passport, you have to have a visa. If you have a grandparent (either side) born in UK, you can get a 5-year ancestry visa allowing you to live and work. After 5 years, you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (ILR) or permanent residency. If you aren't eligible for ancestry, then your choice is either two-year Youth Mobility Scheme visa (if you are under 30 - but doesn't lead to ILR) or work visa through points based system. The last will be the toughest. You won't have enough points for highly skilled (Tier 1 General), so you have to rely on sponsorship route - that is, you need to have a potential job lined up and your employer 'sponsors' you for a visa by showing they cannot find another eligible applicant capable of doing the job because of the specialised nature of the post. This, as you'd imagine, is quite difficult for a recently-qualified audio engineer, as there are loads of experienced people in the industry already looking for jobs and the recession is deep and persisting.
> You cannot get a 6-month visitor leave to enter (Australians don't need a tourist visa) and work. If found out, you'll be deported or if the Border Agency suspect what you are up to, you won't be allowed in and sent on the next plane home. Don't do it!
> So it doesn't look very promising, but if you can give us a bit more details, we may be able to help you further.
> Anyone can buy a property in UK and you don't have to be a resident, but you should rent, not buy, until you are established over here and have finance (or are able to get a mortgage).



I’m not planning on just randomly moving to the UK, I’m obviously going to apply for a visa. I’ve been doing visa research and know I am eligible for a Tier 5 working visa, which will last me two years. I’m not sure on the whole Tier thing though; can you explain to me the system please?
Unfortunately, I’m not eligible for UK ancestry, but would that also apply for other countries? I can get ancestry for either Poland or Austria on my mums’ side if that would get me an EU passport and/or residency. There’s also a possibility of myself having a job in Stockholm if that could be the means to an end.
I’ve heard about this Youth Mobility Scheme but I’m not sure I understand what it is – I know I’m eligible as I’m only turning 21 this year and plan on heading over before I turn 22.
The sponsorship thing I’d like to try and avoid if possible, thank you for explaining it further as I wasn’t too sure of the ins and outs and had considered it. What would qualify me for the Tier 1 General visa you mentioned?
The only thing that would help me with the sponsorship is if it WAS in a specialized field, which I am finding out about over here in Australia, however I will definitely not be relying on it, especially after what you said.
Haha, I was absolutely not considering getting a tourist visa and mooching off it! I want to work over there and preferably stay there for an extended period of time, no way am I jeopardizing it.
What more details are you after? I’m trying to think of everything but it’s hard, lol.
Thanks for clearing it up on the buying properties idea, I wasn’t intending and am not intending on buying a property for several years at least, it was merely a curiosity thing if the opportunity arose. Though I will say that renting sucks! 
Thanks very much for giving me such a detailed answer, hope to hear back from you soon.

Lara_S


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

> Unfortunately, I’m not eligible for UK ancestry, but would that also apply for other countries? I can get ancestry for either Poland or Austria on my mums’ side if that would get me an EU passport and/or residency. There’s also a possibility of myself having a job in Stockholm if that could be the means to an end.


Immigration and naturalization laws are one area that the EU doesn't even want to control. You'd have to check with the Polish or Austrian consulates to see if they have anything like an ancestry visa, though most countries tend to limit this to "if your parents held the nationality."

If you got a job in Stockholm, the employer would probably get you the necessary visa and that would allow you to visit other countries within the EU while residing in Sweden. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> Immigration and naturalization laws are one area that the EU doesn't even want to control. You'd have to check with the Polish or Austrian consulates to see if they have anything like an ancestry visa, though most countries tend to limit this to "if your parents held the nationality."
> 
> If you got a job in Stockholm, the employer would probably get you the necessary visa and that would allow you to visit other countries within the EU while residing in Sweden.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Ah. If I needed my parents to have held nationality then that won't work as it's only my grandparents and great-grandparents. I will have a check though, thank you.

Thanks very much for the information on Sweden, I'll look further into that!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lara_S said:


> I’m not planning on just randomly moving to the UK, I’m obviously going to apply for a visa. I’ve been doing visa research and know I am eligible for a Tier 5 working visa, which will last me two years. I’m not sure on the whole Tier thing though; can you explain to me the system please?


5 Tiers of points based system (PBS) replaced previous regulations regarding work permit and visa. Tier 1 is for highly skilled. You need to get a minimum of 75 points to qualify, and knowing your age, qualification and exoerience you will be well short of that. Tier 2 is for sponsorship, where a potential employer 'sponsors' you for your visa - only feasible if you are in shortage occupations. See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/workingintheuk/shortageoccupationlist.pdf. Can't find audio engineer. Tier 3 is low-skilled temporary worker, Tier 4 is for students and Tier 5 is for temporary workers and youth mobility scheme. See UK Border Agency | How the points-based system works



> Unfortunately, I’m not eligible for UK ancestry, but would that also apply for other countries? I can get ancestry for either Poland or Austria on my mums’ side if that would get me an EU passport and/or residency. There’s also a possibility of myself having a job in Stockholm if that could be the means to an end.


As Bev says, unlikely, but you should check with relevant consulates. Working in Stockholm may lead to settlement in Sweden and possible naturalisation, but it's a long-term goal (5-10 years).



> I’ve heard about this Youth Mobility Scheme but I’m not sure I understand what it is – I know I’m eligible as I’m only turning 21 this year and plan on heading over before I turn 22.


It's the old working holiday visa. You can stay and work for 2 years in UK, but you are also meant to have a holiday as well. It's a really good scheme with few conditions, but it doesn't lead to permanent residency or naturalisation.



> The sponsorship thing I’d like to try and avoid if possible, thank you for explaining it further as I wasn’t too sure of the ins and outs and had considered it. What would qualify me for the Tier 1 General visa you mentioned?
> The only thing that would help me with the sponsorship is if it WAS in a specialized field, which I am finding out about over here in Australia, however I will definitely not be relying on it, especially after what you said.


I think I've covered this.



> I was absolutely not considering getting a tourist visa and mooching off it! I want to work over there and preferably stay there for an extended period of time, no way am I jeopardizing it.
> What more details are you after? I’m trying to think of everything but it’s hard.


I've outlined some of your possibilities. You have now given me more details about yourself which has helped me to answer your questions further. As you have found out, it's very hard at the moment to get any kind of job in UK, and coming from abroad and needing a visa it's doubly so. But if there's a will, there's a way, and until you try you don't know how things will turn out. I'd have thought Youth Mobility Scheme visa is your best bet. If you are then successful in landing a good job, there may be a chance of a work visa with sponsorship if your boss really needs you.


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Joppa, thanks again for your detailed reply - now I understand the Tier system I know I'm definitely not qualified for a Tier 1 visa. I think I agree with you that the working holiday visa is probably my best bet (and i have nothing against having a holiday!) so in that two years I'll just have to try my hardest to make a good impression and make them want to keep me.

On the working visa, am I able to come back and forth between Australia and the UK a few times in the two year period?

As you mentioned above, the working visa and Youth mobility Scheme won't get me permanent residency, but getting a work visa with sponsorship will? And will the 2 years I would've have spent there count towards anything if this is the case?

Thanks again!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lara_S said:


> On the working visa, am I able to come back and forth between Australia and the UK a few times in the two year period?


Yes, you can travel between Australia and UK. Each time you return, tell them you are resuming your Youth Mobility, and they will just stamp your passport.



> As you mentioned above, the working visa and Youth mobility Scheme won't get me permanent residency, but getting a work visa with sponsorship will? And will the 2 years I would've have spent there count towards anything if this is the case?


Youth Mobility Scheme visa doesn't count towards indefinite leave to remain (ILR). Only if you manage to get a Tier 2 visa under PBS at the end of it will you be able to start your qualifying period of residence in UK that will count towards 5 years you need to get ILR. So it will mean 2 years on YMS (disregarded) + 5 years on Tier 2 = 7 years.


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Yes, you can travel between Australia and UK. Each time you return, tell them you are resuming your Youth Mobility, and they will just stamp your passport.


That's great, thank you. At least I know I can go back and forth if need be.



Joppa said:


> Youth Mobility Scheme visa doesn't count towards indefinite leave to remain (ILR). Only if you manage to get a Tier 2 visa under PBS at the end of it will you be able to start your qualifying period of residence in UK that will count towards 5 years you need to get ILR. So it will mean 2 years on YMS (disregarded) + 5 years on Tier 2 = 7 years.


Awesome, thank you very much for clearing that up for me, it makes things so much clearer. I'll apply for the Youth Mobility Scheme first and see how I go with that, then see about getting a Tier 2 sponsorship. 

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions, dude. You've been a great help!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lara_S said:


> Awesome, thank you very much for clearing that up for me, it makes things so much clearer. I'll apply for the Youth Mobility Scheme first and see how I go with that, then see about getting a Tier 2 sponsorship.


If you manage to get your sponsorship earlier before your YMS visa is about to expire, you can start your qualifying period sooner. But I wonder how many employers will bother going through the trouble and expense of visa sponsorship when it isn't needed.


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Joppa said:


> If you manage to get your sponsorship earlier before your YMS visa is about to expire, you can start your qualifying period sooner. But I wonder how many employers will bother going through the trouble and expense of visa sponsorship when it isn't needed.


What do you mean, "isn't needed"?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lara_S said:


> What do you mean, "isn't needed"?


Because you are allowed to work for 2 years on your YMS visa. But if you can persuade them to sponsor you for a Tier 2 long before your visa is up, and if successful, it will give you long-term stability, freedom from YMS restrictions (e.g. restriction on self-employment) and you can start your qualifying period sooner.
Details in UK Border Agency | Youth mobility scheme


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Because you are allowed to work for 2 years on your YMS visa. But if you can persuade them to sponsor you for a Tier 2 long before your visa is up, and if successful, it will give you long-term stability, freedom from YMS restrictions (e.g. restriction on self-employment) and you can start your qualifying period sooner.
> Details in UK Border Agency | Youth mobility scheme


The thing is I want to LIVE in the UK, not just work there for a period. Like, move there and eventually gain residency.

I checked out the link you gave and found this "While you are in the United Kingdom under the youth mobility scheme, you are not allowed to switch into any other category of the points-based system or in to a visitor route." so to get into a sponsored position to enable me to stay, it would have to be after the Youth Mobility Scheme is over.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, but you can leave the country, and with sponsorship apply for Tier 2 visa, while enjoying a break in Australia! So you can use the YMS as a time to find a willing employer for Tier 2, which probably amounts to the same thing - in that it may take all of your 24 months to find one.


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Yes, but you can leave the country, and with sponsorship apply for Tier 2 visa, while enjoying a break in Australia! So you can use the YMS as a time to find a willing employer for Tier 2, which probably amounts to the same thing - in that it may take all of your 24 months to find one.


Ahhh ok, sorry I misunderstood 
This is an excellent idea, thank you so much for all your help 

The website link you gave me is remarkable helpful by the way, thank you very much! 

I'm definitely going to apply for the YMS visa and hopefully I'll have enough money saved to head over next year, see what it's like over there, then come back and try to apply for Tier 2 sponsorship. Thanks again! :tongue1:


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

Here are your answers.

Take out the WHV (tier 5) and head over and look for work.

If you want to stay perminantly you would be able to stay as an EU citizen if your Mom was born in either Poland or Austria. If you can do this get this sorted out Asap like tommorrow as EU countries over the past year have put large restrictions recently on dual citizenship and may not do it anymore. Spain and Germany will now not Dual with an Aussie passport.

You can acquire a Tier 1 Visa as long as you're under 30 and hold a Masters degree then you'll be right. The Masters degree is now a basic requirement for the HSMP (tier 1)

Plenty of Aussies in London up to 300k at any one time

Finally the Job situation is absolutely ****ed and forget the US or Canada the Uk and Ireland are by far the worse off countries. People who once earned £50 ph are now scrambling for £5ph bar jobs or heading overseas. The economy is ****ed and it won't be any better in a year or two. So be prepared it will be real tough to get work but you don't know unless you try.

Good Luck


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Weebie said:


> If you want to stay perminantly you would be able to stay as an EU citizen if your Mom was born in either Poland or Austria. If you can do this get this sorted out Asap like tommorrow as EU countries over the past year have put large restrictions recently on dual citizenship and may not do it anymore. Spain and Germany will now not Dual with an Aussie passport.


Just a quick caveat - Austria is another country that doesn't tolerate dual citizenship. In order to take Austrian citizenship, you generally have to give up your old citizenship.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Weebie said:


> Here are your answers.
> 
> Take out the WHV (tier 5) and head over and look for work.
> 
> ...


Ok, what's a WHV Tier 5?
I found out I can't apply for dual passports coz my mum was born here and only my grandparents were born overseas, so that options out unfortunately.

I don't have a Masters degree, only a Bachelor.

Whether the economy is stuffed or not, I'm still in a specialised position so I think it'll be SLIGHTLY easier for me to find work, IF there are positions available. I've already started emailing studios and the like to get my information out there and possibly pick up a job.

So basically what you're saying is don't go to the UK or the US or Canada (all of the big countries where I would be able to find better work then here) coz the economies screwed, even though Australia isn't much better?


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

Lara_S said:


> Ok, what's a WHV Tier 5?
> I found out I can't apply for dual passports coz my mum was born here and only my grandparents were born overseas, so that options out unfortunately.
> 
> I don't have a Masters degree, only a Bachelor.
> ...


Yes the WHV is the Tier 5 (2 year entry).

If you ever want to stay in the Uk you WILL need a masters so its something to consider. It's now a requirement for skilled entry unless you are able to be sponsored which could be impossible with the current economy.

There is no point emailing organisations right now. No one is going to be even bothered talking to you if your not on the ground or even more so if your coming coming next year.

Do you work in medical side of Audiology or the Media side? If its the medical side you might be able to secure work if it's the media side well then specialised or not Media sector is up there with banking as the hardest hit industries in Britain. Also you say your specialised? Do you have much experience?

I would personally would love to go back and live in the UK I'm 25 but I've seen the downturn there and I know it will be another 5 years before I get back there. USA, Canada are bad AUS is also bad but the UK is on another level love. The economy there is irrepairable.

Good Luck!


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## Lara_S (Jan 12, 2010)

Weebie said:


> Yes the WHV is the Tier 5 (2 year entry).
> 
> If you ever want to stay in the Uk you WILL need a masters so its something to consider. It's now a requirement for skilled entry unless you are able to be sponsored which could be impossible with the current economy.
> 
> ...


Ok, so the WHV is the same thing as the Youth Mobility Scheme thing? It's got a 2 year working holiday entry.

I was gonna go for sponsorship after my two year visa runs out, and spend the two years looking for sponsorship, seeing as the only masters you can get in Audio is in acoustics which I'm crap at, plus it's another 4 years at school.

Dude, I have a plan. I'm emailing now so at least I have an idea of who to talk to again when I finish, then again when I'm over there judging by what studios are bothered to reply. So far, almost all of them have. Plus, if I email now and on the off chance get a job offer, at least I didn't miss out by waiting another year.

I'm a qualified Audio Engineer, so I can work pretty much anywhere there's sound required, like TV, radio, live concerts/theatre, studio work, post production, film etc. I've got a load of experience in studio work and in live sound.

I thought the US was worse off than the UK, but to be honest I don't follow the news that closely so I could be wrong. I'm not expecting this to be easy, but if there's even a tiny chance I can get work over there, I'll take it. What do you do in the US? Coz that was my second option if the UK plan fell through.

Cheers mate!


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