# puzzled by pool pump (again)



## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

I just mastered my old pump but had to move so I have inherited a new one so is anyone familiar with this one (picture).

A few things puzzle me.

First what appears to be the waste is open, but I thought this should be closed, but if I try to filter with this closed no water comes back into pool and meter hits red!

Filtering with it open works but meter barely reaches green, filtering in picture.

There are four valves three are fully open one is fully closed.

When trying to vacuum there is very little suction from filter I guess most goes out the bottom of pool but I thought you could regulate this?

I got these instructions from the owner but it don't help much:-

. Llave que pone: fondo (1ª por la izquierda): siempre abierta (vertical); está abierta si va en sentido de la tubería.

. Llave que pone Skimer (2ª por la izquierda): es por donde traga agua por arriba: siempre abierta (vertical).

. Llave aspiración: para pasar el limpiafondo (la manguera azul se pone en el agujero del medio y arriba en el lado de la derecha).

. Llave retorno: debe estar abierta. Excepto al vaciar la piscina que debe estar cerrada.

Al vaciar la piscina cerrar la llave de la ducha.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

To hoover the pool you would open the closed valve (aspiración) & close both fondo ( bottom drain) & skimmer .but only close them after opening the hoover one.( aspiración)
The pipe far right with no valve is the waste . The one 2nd from right is the water return to pool. "Retorno" on owners list. should always be open.

P.s depending on capacity of pump yu might have to partially open the bottom drain valve when vacuuming as the suction might be too much.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

What gus-lopez said.

When you say the meter barely reaches green, can you tell me what meter/pressure valve says when the power is off and when it is filtering? (It should be 0 when off but I had a faulty one once that read 3 so best to be sure it is reading 0)

When vacuuming you have two choices. 99% of the time you will leave the handle where it is (set to filter) and recirculate the water through the filter and back into the pool. The other choice is to turn the centre handle to 'waste' and then when you are vacuuming, the water will go out the waste pipe and drain away somewhere. You only want to 'vacuum to waste' on very rare occasions, like if you have persistent fine dust that the sand filter won't catch or if you have a bucket load of sand/dirt in the pool and you'd rather just get rid of it than clog up your sand filter with it.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Thanks guys. I had a pool guy come in and check out and explain but wish I had read your reply First Gus lol as he told me what you said. I completely misunderstood the pipes and didn't see that there purpose was actually written on the side although not easy to see. There is no lever to close the waste it is permanently open, I guess not ideal. 

There was a problem with the filter being clogged up and broken but not expensive to just buy a new one.
The pool guy poured in 10 litres of pH reductor to clean the cal from the pool and sand, sounds like a ridiculous amount to me but guess he knows what he's doing. The pH reading now is very low and all my chlorine has gone! The pool guy saw my Mercadonna pH reductor (less than 4€ for 5ltr) and promptly told me it's no good and I should buy his (15€ for 5ltr) lol

After cleaning filter everything running great when the pool guy left the meter was still not even in green, which he said was normal. What is odd though after the pump has run a few times the meter is now just into yellow. I did another backwash and nothing changed.

One other question though I remember from my previous pool one lever was half open I assume to regulate the flow through the skimmer, is this necessary? Both my skimmer and fondo are fully open.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

chris&vicky said:


> Thanks guys. I had a pool guy come in and check out and explain but wish I had read your reply First Gus lol as he told me what you said. I completely misunderstood the pipes and didn't see that there purpose was actually written on the side although not easy to see. There is no lever to close the waste it is permanently open, I guess not ideal.
> 
> There was a problem with the filter being clogged up and broken but not expensive to just buy a new one.
> The pool guy poured in 10 litres of pH reductor to clean the cal from the pool and sand, sounds like a ridiculous amount to me but guess he knows what he's doing. The pH reading now is very low and all my chlorine has gone! The pool guy saw my Mercadonna pH reductor (less than 4€ for 5ltr) and promptly told me it's no good and I should buy his (15€ for 5ltr) lol
> ...


Waste pipes don't need a lever on them as water will only go out the waste pipe when you turn the handle to 'waste' so don't worry about that one.

Your filter was clogged up and broken and it was not expensive to buy a new filter? Are we talking about the big white sand filter beneath the multipoint handle in your picture? If so there is no reason at all to replace the sand filter apart from if it had a hole in it! (and even then it can be repaired). All of the filters innards can be replaced and there really isn't that much in there, just a few pipes and the laterals (the fingers at the bottom that pass the water through).

10L of PH reducer (PH-) to clear up cal (calcium?) That's not what PH reducer does, sorry to state the obvious but it reduces your PH and probably your Total Alkalinity (TA). You say your PH reading is now very low, can you tell me what it is now? 

What did your pool guy do and tell you about chlorine? Did he not try to sell you some chlorine tablets and a floating dispenser and tell you to keep it topped up?

I'm guessing your pressure valve has a traffic light system of green for good, amber for not so good and red for bad? So after he cleaned the filter (which was changed?) the pressure went down to green....which is what it is supposed to do. 

When you say the pump has been run a few times, what do you mean? A few hours a day for a few days? This information is actually quite important because you need to run your filter at least 4 hours a day this time of year. So the pressure needle has gone from green to amber and even after a backwash it hasn't gone back to green? That doesn't sound right, can you describe how the pool guy told you how to do a backwash? (Like which levers to turn and for how long to run the backwash and rinse).

Did your pool guy leave the fondo valve open? Do you have a side valve on the pool to connect a vacuum hose to? When the filter is running put you hand close to the side connector to feel if there is any suction but don't block it with your hand. It could hurt you and damage the pump. If there is suction then you should close that valve. You only need it open to vacuum. When filtering you want your skimmer fully open (providing the water level is half way up the skimmer opening. If it is lower you need to top up the pool as you risk sucking in air, if it is higher the skimmer won't work efficiently as it can't suck hard enough....no sniggering at the back). 

When the water level is half way up the skimmer opening, leave your skimmer valve fully open and your sumidero (bottom drain) half open. You can play around with the sumidero valve to get the right sort of flow through the skimmer, trial and error).

The pool guy....hmmm, I'll wait for you to reply with some info but at the moment I wouldn't put too much faith in him. Your PH- is just as good as his PH-. Or you can buy Salfumant acido clorhidrico (hydrochloric acid) from the washing powder aisle in Mercadona for €2.35 for 5L and it will do the same thing. 

Did he test the water and give you the results? It's hard to know what advice to give you without knowing the chemical balance of your water I'm afraid so if you have some numbers for PH, Chlorine (zero by the sound of it) TA and CYA (not always possible with the cheaper test strips) then we'll have a fighting chance of figuring out what is going on.

Cheers


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Just to clear up some confusion (caused by me). There seems to be different names for the same valves and some of these names are very similar so to clear it up...

Fondo can also be called Sumidero, they both mean the bottom drain.

Limpiafondo can also be called Aspiración, they both mean side wall vacuum hose outlet.

So where I say Sumidero you can take that as Fondo and yes, they could be both fully open when filtering normally. Or you can half close the Fondo to get a better pull through the skimmer....if you want.

I was getting my fondo's muddled.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Desiato said:


> Waste pipes don't need a lever on them as water will only go out the waste pipe when you turn the handle to 'waste' so don't worry about that one.


Hmmm some do, like mine as it can either be gravity fed or pumped. It very much depends on how it's been configured.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> Hmmm some do, like mine as it can either be gravity fed or pumped. It very much depends on how it's been configured.


True, but if it hasn't got one, it's a safe bet it doesn't need one....or the pool would be empty pdq.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Just looking at the picture again, I can see the green/amber/red pressure gauge but can't see the numbers on it. What are the numbers at the start of the green, amber and red sections? It looks a bit like this one http://admin.pooltechcyprus.com/Upload/Product/Pressure-Gauge_141722930.jpg but it doesn't have the same brand name at the bottom so the numbers could be different. 'Being in the green' is quite a wide mark as that could be 0.6 or 1.1 when looking at this pressure gauge and if it has gone into the yellow there's a good chance it needs backwashing but that depends on whereabouts in the green it was to start with.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Desiato said:


> Just looking at the picture again, I can see the green/amber/red pressure gauge but can't see the numbers on it. What are the numbers at the start of the green, amber and red sections? It looks a bit like this one http://admin.pooltechcyprus.com/Upload/Product/Pressure-Gauge_141722930.jpg but it doesn't have the same brand name at the bottom so the numbers could be different. 'Being in the green' is quite a wide mark as that could be 0.6 or 1.1 when looking at this pressure gauge and if it has gone into the yellow there's a good chance it needs backwashing but that depends on whereabouts in the green it was to start with.


As I said I have backwashed, twice.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Desiato said:


> Waste pipes don't need a lever on them as water will only go out the waste pipe when you turn the handle to 'waste' so don't worry about that one.
> 
> Your filter was clogged up and broken and it was not expensive to buy a new filter? Are we talking about the big white sand filter beneath the multipoint handle in your picture? If so there is no reason at all to replace the sand filter apart from if it had a hole in it! (and even then it can be repaired). All of the filters innards can be replaced and there really isn't that much in there, just a few pipes and the laterals (the fingers at the bottom that pass the water through).
> 
> ...


Wow that's a lot of reply, thanks for taking the time.

I think you may have misunderstood some of what I said I probably didn't word it well.

The filter I am taking about it just the little plastic basket which was clogged up with muck and has a split in, not the basket in the skimmer the one in the plastic container attached to the pump. I doubt they cost more than a few euro or x4 from the pool shop lol.

I thought calcium build up was caused by high pH and pouring in the pH reductor certainly did remove the build up from the walls and also had a effect on the sand. The guy said the cal causes the sand to clog he poured some in the skimmer to clean the sand. The guy owns the main pool shop in Alhaurin de la Torre I do trust he knows what he's talking about.

Before the pool guy did anything he tested the water the chlorine level was fine the pH was too high. I already had 3 pastilles in a pool float I guess now I need to add more but also get the pH up.

I use a liquid testing kit. The phenol drops for pH now turns the water yellow 6.8 it should be orange 7.2 to 7.6. The OTO drops for chlorine turns the water clear 0.3 it should be 1.0 to 1.5.

The meter is right on the line between green and yellow I don't know why it changed. What I was saying was the pump has run three times (6 hours) since all the pH was added and I have hoovered backwashed again (twice). When the pool guy left after cleaning the pool , backslashing, adding pH etc the meter was just under green.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Desiato said:


> Just looking at the picture again, I can see the green/amber/red pressure gauge but can't see the numbers on it. What are the numbers at the start of the green, amber and red sections? It looks a bit like this one http://admin.pooltechcyprus.com/Upload/Product/Pressure-Gauge_141722930.jpg but it doesn't have the same brand name at the bottom so the numbers could be different. 'Being in the green' is quite a wide mark as that could be 0.6 or 1.1 when looking at this pressure gauge and if it has gone into the yellow there's a good chance it needs backwashing but that depends on whereabouts in the green it was to start with.


Yes the gauge is like that and running pump now it reads 1.3 in yellow. That appears to be too high. I know the obvious answer is backwash and rinse but I have done that twice today and it was also done yesterday. Yesterday the reading was 0.6 and all that has happened since it the pump running for six hours after 10 litres of pH reductor was dumped in the pool.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Desiato said:


> What gus-lopez said.
> 
> When you say the meter barely reaches green, can you tell me what meter/pressure valve says when the power is off and when it is filtering? (It should be 0 when off but I had a faulty one once that read 3 so best to be sure it is reading 0)


I am thinking you could be correct running the pump now it reads 1.3 yellow, switch off pump it goes to 0.6, tap the gauge it goes to 0.2. It never goes to zero. Can you just buy and screw on gauge as I don't really like to call the pool guy out again with what he charges.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Ahhh, the pump basket! You had me worried there. The sand filter tends to be the only item that has sole custody of the word 'filter'. 

OK, this could get complicated but let’s get the easy stuff out the way first. Yes calcium build up can be caused by high PH but calcium reduction is not normally done with PH reduction. The best way to get rid of calcium hardness (CH) is to drain the water. This guy explains it quite well 



 although being American you won't be able to get your hands on a Taylor test kit that easy and there's more of the same info here Hard pool water problems & calcium hardness. There does appear to be chemicals on the market that claim to reduce your CH but I haven’t personally used any and can’t name any. All I can say is that I've never heard of anyone using PH- to reduce CH so although you can see some improvement, I would test again the water again to see if the CH level has actually gone down.

So the first thing the pool guy did was test the water and the chlorine level was fine (what was it?) and the PH was too high (what was it?). He should also have tested your Cyanuric Acid (CYA) This is critical as the level of CYA effects how efficient your chlorine is (without knowing your CYA level, you don't stand a chance of getting the water balanced correctly). He should have also tested the calcium hardness of the water (CH), did he leave you with the test results? You need to know what it was before he dumped all that PH- in to see if it has gone down. 

Your PH at 6.8 is too low, he should not have lowered your PH under 7.0 as that is where problems start Aquasprite | Swimming Pool filtration, purification | Copper - Silver Ionisation System | swimming pool ionization

Cleaning the sand probably cleaned the sand. The PH- he poured in just got flushed away as soon as he backwashed. The needle will rise as the sand filter starts to clog up so if you are brushing the sides (which he should have done to try and shift some of the calcium build up) that will then float in the pool and enter the sand filter. 

What colour is the pool water? Can you clearly see the drain at the bottom of the deep end?
I’m sure you are backwashing correctly but just to be sure, how long are you backwashing for and how long are you rinsing for? Is the water coming out brown/white/grey? Are you leaving the backwash long enough for the water to run clear?

So the pressure gauge has gone from 0.6 to 1.3 in a day after 6 hours of the pump running. Hmmm, this sounds suspiciously familiar. It’s possible you have an algae problem, I had the exact same symptoms with a clear pool and the guys at Pool School - TFP Home Page diagnosed my problem. There is a simple test but it does require your pool to have some chlorine in it. What you have to do is take a reading of Free Chlorine (FC) as late as possible after the sun goes down and then do it again before the sun comes up. What this will tell you is if your chlorine is being used up overnight, if it is, you have an algae problem.


**Edit** should have said you can't leave the chlorine tabs in the floater overnight when doing this test. You should take them out late afternoon and do the late night test when it starts to get dark but you need at least 2-3ppm of FC to do the test.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

chris&vicky said:


> I am thinking you could be correct running the pump now it reads 1.3 yellow, switch off pump it goes to 0.6, tap the gauge it goes to 0.2. It never goes to zero. Can you just buy and screw on gauge as I don't really like to call the pool guy out again with what he charges.


Yes you can, get a Glycerine Filled one, they are better.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Desiato said:


> Ahhh, the pump basket! You had me worried there. The sand filter tends to be the only item that has sole custody of the word 'filter'.
> 
> OK, this could get complicated but let’s get the easy stuff out the way first. Yes calcium build up can be caused by high PH but calcium reduction is not normally done with PH reduction. The best way to get rid of calcium hardness (CH) is to drain the water. This guy explains it quite well How To Test and Adjust Calcium Hardness in a Pool - YouTube although being American you won't be able to get your hands on a Taylor test kit that easy and there's more of the same info here Hard pool water problems & calcium hardness. There does appear to be chemicals on the market that claim to reduce your CH but I haven’t personally used any and can’t name any. All I can say is that I've never heard of anyone using PH- to reduce CH so although you can see some improvement, I would test again the water again to see if the CH level has actually gone down.
> 
> ...



I think you are barking up the wrong tree lol. Yes I can see the drain at the deep end, in fact I could see a tiny dust particle if there were any, the pool is crystal clear clean. Yes I know how to run a backwash correctly and rinse. The guy who came to look at the pool is the owner of - I would be very surprised if he did not know that a backwash would flush out anything poured in the filter. Obviously adding the pH was the last thing he did. Yes he checked the chlorine and pH but I know that the chlorine was correct because I always check it likewise I know the pH was high and I know the pH has gone down because I test that too. He just confirmed what I knew. And I know the pH is too low now I thought I said that. As for the suggestion of draining the water I think I will give that one a very wide berth  I am beginning to think I just have a faulty gauge as mentioned previously.

Ps it took my link away for the pool shop the guy who you appear to have little faith in owns. I guess you can't post links.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

You do have a faulty gauge, that's for certain but that alone doesn't answer why your pool was causing a calcium build up. I was sceptical when the guys at TFP diagnosed my problem as algae as my pool was perfectly clear just like yours but I appreciated that they knew more than me so followed their advice. They turned out to be right. The problem that I had was that the pressure gauge kept rising when I was hoovering and some days I had to backwash twice because the needle would go from 1.0 to 2.0. What made me sceptical was the fact the pool had been clear for years but I soon found out that not all clear water is as clear as we think. Move forward a year and I now backwash once every three months when the needle has moved from 1 to 1.2 and the water is clearer now than ever before. 

It sounds like you've decided what the problem is so good luck and enjoy your pool!

PS I don't have little faith in your pool guy, I have little faith in ALL pool guys. It took me a while to work it out and I am by no means the only pool guy sceptic but hey! We trust what we know until we know otherwise, I think that's how it works. Good luck!


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