# Financial Requirements Fiance visa



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi all, I am looking to apply for a UK fiance visa.

I am in need of advice and guidance.

I am self employed (Ltd company), I earned well over the UK visa £22400 requirements (as my fiance and I have a child together), last year ('12-13 tax year.)

Though, I have been asked to return to the UK on the grounds of being a carer for a family member; this will mean I will apply for carers allowance.

Will I be better off to successfully apply and obtain the needed visa based on my earnings or based on receipt of carers allowance?

I am unsure the pro's and con's of each avenue, given we have a child.

Also, what specific documents will I have to submit in each scenario?

We will be living at my UK family home with my mother in a three bedroom house (if that matters), and there is more than enough room.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

smashenka said:


> Hi all, I am looking to apply for a UK fiance visa.
> 
> I am in need of advice and guidance.
> 
> I am self employed (Ltd company), I earned well over the UK visa £22400 requirements (as my fiance and I have a child together), last year ('12-13 tax year.)


Let me get some facts straight. You are a British citizen currently living and working in Ukraine. If you are British and your fiancé is Ukrainian, then your child, if born on or after 1st July 2006, is a dual national and doesn't count towards financial requirement, so you only need £18,600. 



> Though, I have been asked to return to the UK on the grounds of being a carer for a family member; this will mean I will apply for carers allowance.
> 
> Will I be better off to successfully apply and obtain the needed visa based on my earnings or based on receipt of carers allowance?
> 
> I am unsure the pro's and con's of each avenue, given we have a child.



If the above assumptions are correct, you as British partner need a job offer earning the minimum starting within 3 months of return. If you want to apply as recipient of carer's allowance, you will be exempt from financial requirement and only need to meet the rule for adequate maintenance, which means you need £112.55 per week left over after housing costs. If you aren't paying rent or council tax, the whole of your income, plus carer's allowance, must come to that level.



> Also, what specific documents will I have to submit in each scenario?
> 
> We will be living at my UK family home with my mother in a three bedroom house (if that matters), and there is more than enough room.


Supporting documents depend on how you are going to meet the requirements. Your accommodation is adequate. You need to enclose a letter from your mother offering you accommodation, evidence of ownership and occupation such as title deeds, council tax and utility bills, and details of size and number of occupants.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback.

I am very interested in the area in which you have stated dual citizenship, where did you get such info from? I ask as I queried this with the consular in Kiev and they never gave a straight answer, just website links; all the info is ambiguous.

Regarding documentation if I use the route as a recipient of carers allowance, what documents will I need to supply?

I have compiled this so far;

1.	Letter verification to carers allowance (I will have the official letter soon)

2.	Details of my relationship over the last 7 years (photos/holidays together/a letter from one landlord that we regularly used for 3 months per year [to show we have lived together])

3.	Our child’s birth certificate (translated to English)

4.	I am not sure if this is needed: though I have put together my business finances for 2012-13 to show my earnings before carers’ allowance (recently).

I was told that I can apply for a 'family visa' for our child as I am his father & _British citizen_, is this visa type correct? I assume it is, as I am unaware of alternatives. Yet the ambiguity surrounding the dual citizenship status is that I am unsure (if no dual citizenship can be held) to change his citizenship before or after the application and entry to the UK for my fiancé, or how once my fiancé and I are married how this will effect our child, or (if dual citizenship is applicable) how the dual citizenship matter works; as I assume I can apply for a British passport for him now; or what documents are needed for British citizenship recognition through birth?

I know there are a lot of questions I have posed and I understand you are giving your time freely in replies, though please be assured I appreciate all your advice/guidance/help/time. 

I eagerly await your reply.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you are British otherwise than by descent (i.e. born in UK), then your child is at least British, by descent if born outside UK. You don't have to be married. Just apply for his passport through the embassy in Ukraine. You will need his full birth certificate professionally translated into English and your birth certificate. If you were born after 1st January 1983, you will probably need your parents' birth certificate(s) as well. 

Ukraine doesn't officially recognise dual nationality, but according to Ukrainian law, your child is Ukrainian through his mother, and under British law, he is British. Just that within Ukraine, he is only recognised as an Ukrainian (so can only use Ukrainian passport to enter and exit the country, and so on). 

As for required documents for spouse visa application when exempt from financial requirement, see http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...w/IDIs/chp8-annex/maintenance.pdf?view=Binary Part 6.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi and thanks for the reply.

Regarding ‘dual citizenship’ and being a ‘British citizen other than by descent’ is probably why I didn’t receive a straight answer from the UK consular in Kiev.

The situation in my case maybe more complicated. 

I was born in Swaziland, my father (a British citizen) had a business there and in SA, in the 70’s he ventured there and subsequently met my mother (who is from Mauritius) they married before having my brother and I. My parents returned to England before the apartheid started, later my mother was naturalised in the UK. I and my brother have no documents to say we were either naturalised or that an application had been made to become British citizens, all I can think of is that we gained citizenship via descent. Both my brother and I hold UK British citizen passports, as does my mother.

How then does this affect my child, born to a British father and Ukrainian mother? I have been told there is no obligatory need to register my child's birth certificate/birth with the UK consular in Kiev (this is optional, for future issuing of the birth certificate; _made easy I am told_). 

I am still confused what visa type to apply for, (family visa I assume) relating to my child; or go down the route of trying to obtain a British passport for my child, as the issue of knowing if he has a right to British citizenship and a UK passport I was told is through application; for a passport costing £105 or application for British citizenship costing £800 , but to then understand he is not entitled to either, then it will be a waste of money & time, as no-one I am told (UK in Ukraine consular and visa call-centre mentioned) will look at the specifics until application has been received in each case, the application itself needs to go to London and back to the Ukraine for issuing/refusal.

Can you shed anymore light on this?

Also, I read the PDF document relating to maintenance you posted the link for. The sections describe mainly those using the ‘financial route’ to fiancé visa application, however the only section/part I found to be pertinent (please let me know if I am wrong) is part 6 section 6; relating to housing and council tax costs. Is this the only part(s) specific in my case, in addition to supplying;

- Child’s birth certificate, 
- My passport
- Fiancé passport
- Verification letter of entitlement to carer’s allowance
- Letter from my mother to state we have right of abode at her home, and details of the residence.

Do I need to supply the visa centre my previous employment and earnings details? As I can imagine doing so will not hurt my application; given I am using the recipient of carer’s allowance route.

Again, thank you for your time and helpfulness, as you have highlighted areas I was not aware of, and I am gradually understand the processes yet slowly, your insightful knowledge is welcomed and appreciated.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Joppa said:


> If you want to apply as recipient of carer's allowance, you will be exempt from financial requirement and only need to meet the rule for adequate maintenance, which means you need £112.55 per week left over after housing costs. If you aren't paying rent or council tax, the whole of your income, plus carer's allowance, must come to that level.


Hi.

I quoted you above as how did you derive the £112.55 amount.

Brief update: I registered my child as a British Citizen and now have his British Passport.

Regarding the fiancee visa, I am still in reciept of carer's allowance, so when doing the fiancee visa does my child need to be included (a British Citizen)? I figure no but want to be sure.

Regarding 'adequate maintenance' I read examples from the IDI Section 8 1.7a bumf that 'adequate' is in relation to a family of similar size on 'income support'. So does that mean my fiancee, child and myself get targeted for the equivalent income available at our disposal or just me and my fiancee; as our child is a Brit Citizen?

Thanks


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

For a couple over 18, the required amount per week is £112.55, which is what you would get in income support if you were a British couple. Maintenance requirement works on the principle that the migrant family needs to have as much money available as what a British family would get in income support.

If you have a child, you would get, in addition £64.99 and £17.40 family premium, making a total of £194.94. To meet the maintenance requirement, you need to have as much left from your income after subtracting your housing cost (rent or mortgage) and council tax. In your income you can include all your benefits and tax credits as well as your earnings. Since the maintenance requirement is about how much money you need to live on, you have to count everyone - your non-EEA partner, yourself and your dual-national child.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi Joppa, thanks for the reply, as I read you were on holiday I never expected such a fast reply.

Please forgive my ignorance in the benefit system, yet I have a couple of questions still on this matter, as i can't get my head around it quite yet.

I claim 'carer's allowance' and get an 'income support' element paid. I do not yet claim child benefit (from the UK), as the child's mother claims a similar amount from the Ukraine gov, so until they are actually both in the UK I won't be putting in a claim for 'child benefit' or 'child tax credit'.

I also have not applied for a 'family premium' (as you stated) as the child has since lived exclusively in the Ukraine.

Therefore, all the amounts I have claimed are solely based on myself, as I assumed I cannot claim the 'child tax credit', 'Uk child benefit' and the associated 'family premium' given that my child doesn't so far live in the UK,

How then does this effect the 'adequate maintenance' rules/decisions, will they still apply 2 adults + 1 child rule to my circumstances, if, as of yet I am not claiming (but could claim) the additional amounts.

I really appreciate your feedback.

Thanks


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think you are overthinking or complicating things unnecessarily. All you need to do for your visa application is to show how much you get per week now, in earnings, income support and carer's allowance etc. Subtract rent/mortgage and council tax and you need to have £194.94. Do you? Then you meet the requirement. If you don't, do you have any savings, can you boost your earnings through overtime etc and can you apply for other benefits? You can't add anything you can claim in the future once your dual-national child joins you in UK.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Joppa said:


> I think you are overthinking or complicating things unnecessarily. All you need to do for your visa application is to show how much you get per week now, in earnings, income support and carer's allowance etc. Subtract rent/mortgage and council tax and you need to have £194.94. Do you? Then you meet the requirement. If you don't, do you have any savings, can you boost your earnings through overtime etc and can you apply for other benefits? You can't add anything you can claim in the future once your dual-national child joins you in UK.


Hi and thanks for the reply.

Can I know what the £194.94 amount consists of (what amounts you took into consideration to come to this total)?

You mentioned I can take into account savings, if I do not meet the £194.94 amount per week, then what amout in savings would I need to have and how long would I have to maintain such amount in savings, (initially when applying, after 2yrs and/or after 5yrs)?

Thanks.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi and thanks for the reply.

As I have read again (sorry for my oversight), the £194.94 amount consists of income support, an extra amount as we have a child, and a family premium, however I do not claim as a couple (only as a single person) given my fiancee and child do not live with me, I am now living with my fiancee and child & with my mother (the one I care for) in the Ukraine, sorting out (I hope) a fiancee visa, before returning to the UK.

So I guess I need more money per week as I currently only get CA as now I am out of the country and income support has stopped until my return (DWP told me), even though it's at the single rate.

You mentioned I can take into account savings, if I do not meet the £194.94 amount per week, then what amout in savings would I need to have and how long would I have to maintain such amount in savings, (initially when applying, after 2yrs and/or after 5yrs)?

Thanks.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

£194.94 is the equivalent amount a British couple/family would get in income support (in actual fact they will get some in child tax credit but for the sake of simplicity we just concentrate on income support). The maintenance rule says a migrant family must have the same income as what a British couple would get through income support. So you don't have to be claiming those extra amounts. You can add your earnings and other benefits to reach the total.
While the guidance isn't very forthcoming in specifying savings, I work on the assumption that you need to have enough in savings to meet the weekly shortfall for 2.5 years - the length of your initial visa. You don't have to have the minimum £16,000, but your balance must not have dipped below what you are relying on during the past 6 months. So uf, for example, you are £50 short of £194.94, you need 50 x 52 x 2.5 = £6,500 in savings kept for 6 months.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Joppa said:


> You don't have to have the minimum £16,000, but your balance must not have dipped below what you are relying on during the past 6 months. So uf, for example, you are £50 short of £194.94, you need 50 x 52 x 2.5 = £6,500 in savings kept for 6 months.


Hi and thanks for the info. Very much appreciated.

You mentioned 'a minimum £16k' is this the standard/min amount one needs to have in savings if applying through carer's allowance (or any benefit route)?

Would 16k in savings suffice + CA, (suffice meaning gaining a fiancee visa) or should I work it as below*

I'm very short from the info you have given.

As I was previously claiming IS (stopped now), having 16k available would mean not being able to claim any means tested benefit.

*If I work on £194.94 * 130 weeks (2.5yrs) = £25,342.20. From this amount take away CA (* 130 weeks) and the remaineder is my shortfall.

If I held the shortfall in savings coupled with CA, would this suffice for a successful application for a fiancee visa (related to adequate maintenance), negating problems with other paperwork or is it best to (once I have the funds on or above the shortfall), state a higher amount (if I have available)?

Looking at savings, I know I need to have savings held for 6months (regardless of where it has come from) in an acc in my name proving I have full control of the funds.

I'm just wondering, If I held for example £30k for 6months, where during month 5 the balance dropped to £25k and nearing the 6month mark it went back to £30k, from your last post do I assume I cannot now use the full 30k, but can quote/use the 25k? as the balance fell during month 6.

Again thanks.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't quite understand what you are saying, but basically my Maths is correct. You don't need £16k minimum in savings (that's for those subject to financial requirement and not maintenance requirement for those with CA and other disability-related benefit). Provided your savings can cover the shortfall over the entire period of the visa, you are fine. 

As I have stated, the official info is very short on specifics but I'm using the same principle used for financial requirement. 

Also about minimum balance in savings. Again under the financial requirement they take the lowest daily balance over the last 6 months, so in your example only £25k can be used.


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

smashenka said:


> Hi and thanks for the reply.
> 
> I am now living with my fiancee and child & with my mother (the one I care for) in the Ukraine, sorting out (I hope) a fiancee visa, before returning to the UK.
> 
> ...


Does this mean you are now living in the Ukraine but receiving Carer's Allowance *from the UK* and you are using this situation to obtain a visa without the usual financial restrictions?


----------



## smashenka (Jun 23, 2013)

I was in the Ukraine sorting out a fiancee visa.

Why you ask? Is there additional info I need?


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Sorry, just got confused as to under which circumstances you are applying for a visa.

In your first post you said:

"Though, I have been asked to return to the UK on the grounds of being a carer for a family member; this will mean _I will apply_ for carers allowance."

Then in another post you said:

"I am now living with my fiancee and child & with my mother (the one I care for) in the Ukraine" 

then, further on your say:

"So I guess I need more money per week as I currently only get CA as now I am out of the country and income support has stopped until my return (DWP told me), even though it's at the single rate."

.... and you have been talking about moving to the UK using the Carer's allowance to exempt you from the financial requirements of earning 18,600 per annum.

Guess I lost track of which country you live in, and whether you already receive Carer's Allowance or are intending to apply for it.


----------

