# another peaceful Friday



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Security forces in Islamic countries are bracing for a day of anti-western fury, with international protests planned against a YouTube video ridiculing Muslims and French cartoons mocking the prophet Muhammad


Islamic countries brace for anti-west protests | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Considering it's the west that feeds most of these countries (Egypt, Pakistan, etc.), you'd think they'd find another way instead of ... biting the hand (yeah, I said it) ... particularly with rising food prices and expected shortages across the globe.

My American friends are screaming all across facebook (yeah, I know that's not the ultimate measure, but still) that ALL foreign aid should be cut off and used domestically, instead. And it's an election year.

This will not end well.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

#Muhammad - When They Insult Our Prophet (PBUH) - YouTube!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

expatagogo said:


> Considering it's the west that feeds most of these countries (Egypt, Pakistan, etc.), you'd think they'd find another way instead of ... biting the hand (yeah, I said it) ... particularly with rising food prices and expected shortages across the globe.
> 
> My American friends are screaming all across facebook (yeah, I know that's not the ultimate measure, but still) that ALL foreign aid should be cut off and used domestically, instead. And it's an election year.
> 
> This will not end well.




No it wont..as I said I had a big fall out with an American friend last week, me trying to say that not all Muslims feel this way.. her view was It doesn't look like it.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

expatagogo said:


> Considering it's the west that feeds most of these countries (Egypt, Pakistan, etc.), you'd think they'd find another way instead of ... biting the hand (yeah, I said it) ... particularly with rising food prices and expected shortages across the globe.
> 
> My American friends are screaming all across facebook (yeah, I know that's not the ultimate measure, but still) that ALL foreign aid should be cut off and used domestically, instead. And it's an election year.
> 
> This will not end well.


i was under the impression that AID didnt exactly go into feeding the population of these countries. If some closes the tap, peace as we've known it will be over


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

Which tap? In what way is the West "feeding" Egypt and Pakistan? Aid amounts are likely almost irrelevant considering the size of the Egyptian economy.

Egypt might import meat from outside, but I'm not aware of that being a substantial amount. The only substantial food import I am aware of is wheat, and Eastern European countries like Bulgaria and Russia are suppliers of that.

Threats won't solve this issue. The fact is, the violent protesters remain a tiny minority. If people want to protest the cartoons or whatever in a peaceful way, I have no problem with that. 

If the tiny violent minority was in any way representative of the majority, the numbers would reflect that.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

I dont think the west feeds the population of Pakistan or Egypt.


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

As a person who identifies with both groups in this conflict, I think it's mostly extremists who are pushing these issues to create further problems.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

I love Egypt and love Egyptians for their calm, tolerant, friendly and laid back nature. At least the more mature generations. 
You are right, the extremist might as well be very few.
Sadly, over the last 30 years or so the population has over multiplied, and these kids grew with no education, no hope, no future, giving way to millions of very angry, uneducated, vulnerable and very maleable generation of young egyptians. They listen to the extremists.
This is why our fridays will continue to be troublesome.


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## Lanason (Sep 1, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> I love Egypt and love Egyptians for their calm, tolerant, friendly and laid back nature. At least the more mature generations.
> You are right, the extremist might as well be very few.
> Sadly, over the last 30 years or so the population has over multiplied, and these kids grew with no education, no hope, no future, giving way to millions of very angry, uneducated, vulnerable and very maleable generation of young egyptians. They listen to the extremists.
> This is why our fridays will continue to be troublesome.


We drove downtown today via the ring road to the Cornish - then back up the Autostrada to City Stars.

all seemed very quiet - less traffic than normal - really productive day out :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Aid to Pakistan:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41856.pdf

Part of the huge aid package to Pakistan is food aid:

_Food for Peace aid to Pakistan fluctuates from year to year, largely related to needs on the ground. During years of humanitarian crisis (either natural or war-related), food aid levels can rise dramatically. The 2010 floods in Pakistan created a severe humanitarian crisis, affecting more than 20 million people and resulting in the United States more than doubling food aid over the previous year’s level, from $55 million in 2009 to $124 million in 2010._

Aid to Egypt:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/185014.pdf

... same "Food for Peace" program.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Qsw said:


> Which tap? In what way is the West "feeding" Egypt and Pakistan? Aid amounts are likely almost irrelevant considering the size of the Egyptian economy.
> 
> Egypt might import meat from outside, but I'm not aware of that being a substantial amount. The only substantial food import I am aware of is wheat, and Eastern European countries like Bulgaria and Russia are suppliers of that.
> 
> ...


Foreign Trade: U.S. Exports by 5-digit End-Use

Egypt imports more food than it grows and much of that comes from the US. Yes, Eastern European countries do supply Egypt as well, however, that is subject to crop success. A year or two ago, wild fires tore through Russia, wiping out wheat crops. Russia kept what was left for domestic use. Meanwhile, heat and drought has ravaged the US corn, wheat, and soy bean crops which will increase prices across the board. Not just for the raw product, but bi-products, including meat and poultry that are fed with corn.

There is no denying there will be huge food security problems globally, and countries that depend on imports, such as Egypt, are particularly vulnerable.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> I dont think the west feeds the population of Pakistan or Egypt.


This is very recent: 


CAIRO: Italy sends food aid to Egypt
IN DETAIL
Embassy of Italy in Cairo
Italian Development Cooperation
World Food Programme
PEI NEWS Service
23 August 2012
Italy mobilises on behalf of the Egyptian people: Italian ambassador in Cairo, Claudio Pacifico, will deliver the second instalment of food aid earmarked for approximately 600,000 inhabitants of the Beni Suef governorate tomorrow to Egyptian Domestic Commerce Minister Abo Zied Mohamed Abo Zied. Thanks to an Italian contribution of 2.6 million US$, 1,100 tonnes of vegetable oil and as much of sugar were purchased, the first instalment of which was delivered to the Port of Alexandria on 8 August.
World Food Programme
The initiative confirms the excellent existing bilateral relations and the long-term collaboration between the Italian government and the UN World Food Programme (WFP). Italian aid earmarked for 2012 alone, the diplomatic mission pointed out, amounted to over 170 million US$, mainly in the sectors of nutrition and food security


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

@expatagogo:

Exports? Oh, I see, you mean trade. Not aid. Those exports are paid for by Egyptian money, and I'm sure if Egyptians want to buy food, there are many around the world who would be happy to provide it. By the way, did you know the U.S. exports more to Egypt than it imports from it? That means the U.S. benefits more from trade with Egypt than the other way around. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

As for "Egypt imports more food than it grows and much of that comes from the US", that just seems to be a completely false statement. Here is a breakdown of Egyptian imports by MIT in 2009, the U.S. is shown as 8% of the Egyptian import chart. http://atlas.media.mit.edu/explore/tree_map/import/egy/show/all/2009/

The highest I have found is 1/4 of the wheat imports coming from the U.S., never mind food as a whole. The only article I could find on Egyptian food imports states that a minister once said Egypt imports 40% of its food, so the first part of your statement is false as well unless you can provide hard evidence to back it up.

The U.S. aid as far as I know is about $1bn for military aid, and another $1bn for economic purposes. Nothing significant compared to the size of the Egyptian economy. It also doesn't come with no strings attached, and is a condition of a treaty that the U.S. wanted. 

I'm not denying that the West sends aid to Egypt, but that hardly constitutes "feeding". The amount of aid is tiny compared the trade that goes on.

The Egyptian government is planning on growing domestic production to close the gap between supply and demand. No doubt this is a serious problem, and I expect the Egyptian government to deal with these issues rather than trivial matters.

As someone who is an advocate of both sides it's important to ensure both know that continued cooperation is better than the alternative.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Qsw said:


> @expatagogo
> Exports? Oh, I see, you mean trade. Not aid. Those exports are paid for by Egyptian money, and I'm sure if Egyptians want to buy food, there are many around the world who would be happy to provide it. By the way, did you know the U.S. exports more to Egypt than it imports from it? That means the U.S. benefits more from trade with Egypt than the other way around. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.
> 
> As for "Egypt imports more food than it grows and much of that comes from the US", that just seems to be a completely false statement. Here is a breakdown of Egyptian imports by MIT in 2009, the U.S. is shown as 8% of the Egyptian import chart. The Observatory | Where does Egypt import from? (2009)
> ...


Really? Since when do I have to answer to you? 

Google "food for peace," then come back with your smart mouth.

Egypt's grain imports are subsidized by the US government. The rest is paid off over a 10 year period, at two percent interest. It's been that way since the Carter years. You can fact check for yourself by looking at the most recent Farm Aid bill.

Of course the Egyptian government has a plan. One can only imagine what that's going to look like, particularly with the new dam under construction and the salinization of the soil in the Delta region from the dam in Aswan. Experts predict Egypt won't be able to meet its own water needs by 2025 (google the article, I'm not your librarian), so growing enough to produce the population that's growing by millions every year (you can google that, too) is going to be an even bigger challenge than it is now.

Doom and gloom is on the horizon, and your staunch cheerleading isn't going to change that.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

By the way, when's the last time you went shopping and noticed you hadn't seen lettuce or cucumbers for a week, or that the price of tomatoes jumped yet again or that fruit now costs less than vegetables? When was the last time you saw a fist fight - or a heated argument front of a government bakery that resulted in the deaths of four people from two families?

Oh, yeah, that's right. You're watching Egypt from afar, and probably getting your bits of information from a ladies' group. Good for you. Some of us live here, instead, and pay attention.


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

expatagogo said:


> Really? Since when do I have to answer to you?
> 
> Google "food for peace," then come back with your smart mouth.
> 
> ...


When did I say you had to answer to me? I'm just asking for facts to back up your insulting (and seemingly false) assertion that the West "feeds" Egypt. So far, I'm not seeing any hard evidence to support that statement.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Qsw said:


> When did I say you had to answer to me? I'm just asking for facts to back up your insulting (and seemingly false) assertion that the West "feeds" Egypt. So far, I'm not seeing any hard evidence to support that statement.


Whatever. I've given you links and sources and other information, but have to be right, so go ahead and be right.

I'm wrong.

You win.

Happy now?


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I think the argument is really not food.. I am sure Expat does not grudge Egyptians aid but the constant criticism of her country/west by people who would jump at the chance to live there is hard to swallow.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I think the argument is really not food.. I am sure Expat does not grudge Egyptians aid but the constant criticism of her country/west by people who would jump at the chance to live there is hard to swallow.


EXACTLY, particularly when the American government is slicing and dicing its budget, eliminating benefits and services in the US, yet doling out money hand over fist for foreign aid to people who storm our embassies and burn our flag - because of a 12 minute youtube clip that an Egyptian made and an Egyptian promoted!


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

expatagogo said:


> Whatever. I've given you links and sources and other information, but have to be right, so go ahead and be right.
> 
> I'm wrong.
> 
> ...


Happy about what? 

I saw something that is likely offensive to many Egyptians, I asked you to respond with sources proving that fact, and nothing that you have shown me backs it up at all. It's not about winning or losing to me, but merely setting the record straight.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Qsw said:


> Happy about what?
> 
> I saw something that is likely offensive to many Egyptians, I asked you to respond with sources proving that fact, and nothing that you have shown me backs it up at all. It's not about winning or losing to me, but merely setting the record straight.


I'll tell you what. If I was concerned about offending Egyptians, I wouldn't be posting my opinions - substantiated with multiple links, etc. - on an EXPAT message board.

And, again, I don't have to answer to you. I've given you what you've asked for and I'm not going to read it to you, too.


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

expatagogo said:


> Egypt imports more food than it grows and much of that comes from the US.


Show me any source that supports this assertion. You've shown nothing, now you have a belligerent attitude. If you don't want to discuss your assertion, that's fine too (my mistake, I thought you would be willing to have a discussion). My initial post was to inquire about your statement, this is a discussion board after all.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

aykalam said:


> This is very recent:
> 
> 
> CAIRO: Italy sends food aid to Egypt
> ...


Coincidentally, yesterday we were overtaken by a nice and new ambulance, it read on the back that it had been donated by the Italian governement.

it would be far smarter if westenr nations did just that, donate "things" , construction projects, and actual food (or equipment to grow your own) instead of money, much of which is used to empower Egypts military capabilities, instead of feeding its people.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> Coincidentally, yesterday we were overtaken by a nice and new ambulance, it read on the back that it had been donated by the Italian governement.
> 
> it would be far smarter if westenr nations did just that, donate "things" , construction projects, and actual food (or equipment to grow your own) instead of money, much of which is used to empower Egypts military capabilities, instead of feeding its people.




I am sure the Italian people will be very happy to hear that... I believe Germany gave police cars..

Europe is in a mess. Greece can't feed her own people, Spanish schools don't have water/electricity. Italy needs propping up. Britain gives aid to a country that has a space programme... plus money to Egypt, crazy stuff



I really have no idea what the answer is but throwing money to countries is not it.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I am sure the Italian people will be very happy to hear that... I believe Germany gave police cars..
> 
> Europe is in a mess. Greece can't feed her own people, Spanish schools don't have water/electricity. Italy needs propping up. Britain gives aid to a country that has a space programme... plus money to Egypt, crazy stuff
> 
> ...


Neither do I, but if we are walking around claiming to feed other countries inhabitants we might as well actually make sure that the money goes into feeding them or improving the quality of their lifes one way or another.


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## CAIRODEMON (Sep 18, 2011)

Sonrisa said:


> I love Egypt and love Egyptians for their calm, tolerant, friendly and laid back nature. At least the more mature generations.
> You are right, the extremist might as well be very few.
> Sadly, over the last 30 years or so the population has over multiplied, and these kids grew with no education, no hope, no future, giving way to millions of very angry, uneducated, vulnerable and very maleable generation of young egyptians. They listen to the extremists.
> This is why our fridays will continue to be troublesome.


Calm? Are you kidding or do we live in different countries? I could apply many adjectives when trying to give my opinion of the overiding characteristics of the Egyptian people, mostly complementary, but calm, no not in a million years!

Next time you are on the road and there is a fender bender between some of your fellow road users, see what ensues, it certainly will not be a calm and rational discussion.


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## Whitedesert (Oct 9, 2011)

Qsw said:


> As a person who identifies with both groups in this conflict, I think it's mostly extremists who are pushing these issues to create further problems.


I agree wholeheartedly...


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Egypt's turmoil is a distraction from IMF economic agenda | Nick Dearden | Global development | guardian.co.uk

Interesting read


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