# Cataract surgery in Mexico



## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

So my wife had her first eye done earlier today. We went to a 'special' eye clinic recommended by our well-to-do Mexican friends. The published rate for the procedure itself was 18,000 pesos (per eye) but they really have nickel and dime'd it up to close to say 25,000 pesos with medicines/lab tests/ etc. I really don't know how that compares with the US - but we did pay out of pocket.

Which is a little interesting because we do have IMSS insurance. Whenever we go to IMSS I always feel like a sheep (or maybe a cow) what with the long waits/crowds. I did a little research prior and everything I read indicated this would be a simple 45 minute procedure. We were there right around 4 hours and there was a larger mass of humanity than most IMSS visits. 

I guess the silver lining is that so far all has gone well.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

lat19n said:


> So my wife had her first eye done earlier today. We went to a 'special' eye clinic recommended by our well-to-do Mexican friends. The published rate for the procedure itself was 18,000 pesos (per eye) but they really have nickel and dime'd it up to close to say 25,000 pesos with medicines/lab tests/ etc. I really don't know how that compares with the US - but we did pay out of pocket.
> 
> Which is a little interesting because we do have IMSS insurance. Whenever we go to IMSS I always feel like a sheep (or maybe a cow) what with the long waits/crowds. I did a little research prior and everything I read indicated this would be a simple 45 minute procedure. We were there right around 4 hours and there was a larger mass of humanity than most IMSS visits.
> 
> I guess the silver lining is that so far all has gone well.


Interesting, since my wife is having her first eye done when we get back to Canada in April. I can't comment on what cataract surgery costs in the States. In Canada, regular cataract surgery, including standard lens, is completely free. My wife has astigmatism, which requires special measurements, ($500 Canadian or ballpark $350 US per eye), and special lens, (another $500C/$350US per eye.) Fortunately, as a retiree, my health insurance from my employer will cover perhaps half of the $1000 Canadian per eye.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

HolyMole said:


> Interesting, since my wife is having her first eye done when we get back to Canada in April. I can't comment on what cataract surgery costs in the States. In Canada, regular cataract surgery, including standard lens, is completely free. My wife has astigmatism, which requires special measurements, ($500 Canadian or ballpark $350 US per eye), and special lens, (another $500C/$350US per eye.) Fortunately, as a retiree, my health insurance from my employer will cover perhaps half of the $1000 Canadian per eye.


I hope you are happy with your healthcare in Canada. I don't know many Canadians nor Europeans but I have heard a few complaints regarding their healthcare. After reading your post I did a quick search and found an article (2017) in the Financial Post which states that the real cost for healthcare in Canada is in the range 500 CAD to as high as 40,000 CAD depending on a person's position in life.

My wife's first eye went great. She is amazed at the change in her eyesight. Last week we went to have the second eye done. She was on the table all prepped for the operation. The doctor walked in, and when she looked at her eye she said there was an infection and aborted. Her eye had been 'sedated' and there was a bad reaction which resulted in a tear in her cornea. So now we are waiting for a) the cornea to repair and then b) the infection to clear. I'm glad she only has two eyes...


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

lat19n said:


> I hope you are happy with your healthcare in Canada. I don't know many Canadians nor Europeans but I have heard a few complaints regarding their healthcare. After reading your post I did a quick search and found an article (2017) in the Financial Post which states that the real cost for healthcare in Canada is in the range 500 CAD to as high as 40,000 CAD depending on a person's position in life.
> 
> My wife's first eye went great. She is amazed at the change in her eyesight. Last week we went to have the second eye done. She was on the table all prepped for the operation. The doctor walked in, and when she looked at her eye she said there was an infection and aborted. Her eye had been 'sedated' and there was a bad reaction which resulted in a tear in her cornea. So now we are waiting for a) the cornea to repair and then b) the infection to clear. I'm glad she only has two eyes...


I mentioned Canadian costs for comparison purposes, not to boast about our healthcare system, or to criticize the US or Mexican systems, but since you brought it up.............

Yes, I am very happy with our Canadian healthcare.....74 years for me and it has never.....ever....let us down. By any accepted measures, (longevity, infant mortality rates, access, etc., etc) our system provides better healthcare for all our citizens at lower costs than does the US system. A few complaints? Sure, no system is perfect, but if the alternative is the fiasco that is the US system, we'll keep our imperfect version.
Not sure what the Financial Post is saying. Does our universal healthcare cost Canadians? Of course it does: nothing's free, and, according to experts on both sides of the border, the Canadian system costs substantially less. One might expect the world's most expensive healthcare system to deliver the world's best healthcare, but that is not the case: the US ranking in most measurement categories is declining, even as costs increase.
The "real cost for healthcare in Canada is in the range 500 CAD to as high as 40,000 CAD depending on a person's position in life"? What does that mean? A person's position in life??? No, see, it's called "Universal Healthcare". The very aim of universal healthcare, its absolute raison d'etre, is to ensure that " a person's position in life" doesn't grant them any more right to adequate medical care than anyone else. That seems to be a concept very difficult for Americans to grasp.
If the Financial Post is referring to the fact that funding of Canadian healthcare costs comes, in part, from general revenues, and high income Canadians generally pay higher taxes, (at least they're supposed to), who can quibble with that? Oh, I forgot.....Trump and his gang of right-wing billionaire friends most definitely quibble with that.


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## almot (Aug 25, 2012)

Most complaints on Canadian healthcare are about long waiting times. Especially for non-urgent procedures like cataract, meniscus, hernia etc. It's 100% covered under Canadian Medicare Act but you have to wait several months. Private cataract surgery costs around CAD 1,000-1,500 per eye, though I believe provincial Medicare plane will reimburse some of this. Free cataract surgery could take up to one year. This is one reason to go private, and another one is that Medicare surgeons don't use "the latest technology" (according to private surgeons sales pitch).

The cost of many procedures in Canada is close to same treatments in very good private clinics in Mexico. Sometimes - cheaper than upscale places in Mx. More expensive than lower-end private clinics in Mx. Well-to-do friends probably suggested not the cheapest clinic in your area.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

almot said:


> Most complaints on Canadian healthcare are about long waiting times. Especially for non-urgent procedures like cataract, meniscus, hernia etc. It's 100% covered under Canadian Medicare Act but you have to wait several months. Private cataract surgery costs around CAD 1,000-1,500 per eye, though I believe provincial Medicare plane will reimburse some of this. Free cataract surgery could take up to one year. This is one reason to go private, and another one is that Medicare surgeons don't use "the latest technology" (according to private surgeons sales pitch).
> 
> The cost of many procedures in Canada is close to same treatments in very good private clinics in Mexico. Sometimes - cheaper than upscale places in Mx. More expensive than lower-end private clinics in Mx. Well-to-do friends probably suggested not the cheapest clinic in your area.


We'll agree to disagree. My family has never.....ever..... had to wait for treatment that was required on an emergency basis. Yes, there are wait lists for non-emergency procedures, something that the system is doing its best to alleviate, but something nevertheless that Canadians are, in the main, prepared to accept. 
There are NO "Medicare surgeons" in Canada. Except for a handful of greedy private enterprise/anti-universal healthcare doctors who operate outside the system, ( most Canadians think they should be shut down, or at the very least, denied any access to healthcare funding), every surgeon in Canada is part of our healthcare system. We do not want a two-tiered healthcare system: private clinics and hospitals for those who can afford it, and a deteriorating public system for everyone else. One only has to look at the mess the Republicans have made and are making of the public school system in the US. 
Our hospitals in major population centres are equipped with the latest technology. To suggest otherwise is nonsense. The proof is in the statistics....better national healthcare outcomes, at lower cost, than our private enterprise dog-eat-dog neighbours to the south.
There are no good reasons to regress.....to "go private". Improve the existing universal system. For those who feel that they're somehow more important than everyone else....whether they be doctors, nurses or patients........ let them go to the US.


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## almot (Aug 25, 2012)

HolyMole said:


> My family has never.....ever..... had to wait for treatment that was required on an emergency basis.


...and nobody mentioned waiting times for emergency procedures in Canada. The discussion was about non-emergency procedures.

"Going private" - in the context of the mentioned procedure, i.e. going for private cataract surgery. Whether we want a two-tier system or not, is a bit an offtopic here. It already exists for cataract and few other ailments. 



HolyMole said:


> There are NO "Medicare surgeons" in Canada.


Medicare surgeons are surgeons working withing Medicare system, i.e. in public hospitals. Vast majority of all surgeons in Canada work for public hospitals, and some work for private clinics at the same time. There is Canadian Medicare Act, provincial subsidized healthcare is based upon it. Canadians don't usually call it "medicare", and mostly are not aware of the underlying acts.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

But I could care less about the Canadian healthcare system. I think that old Montreal has some of the best food on the planet and the lake fishing in Ontario is incredible. My interest in Canada stops there. I lived in Florida for 25+ years for a reason.

In Mexico - we have IMSS insurance. My wife has complained about her vision for perhaps two years now. She has always worn contacts (and glasses). We generally take advantage of the free eye exams at Costco maybe once a year or so. Last year the girl (who seemed pretty knowledgeable) referred my wife to a specialist for an opinion. We met with the guy who charged something like 750 pesos for a 5 minute assessment only for him to refer my wife to another specialist. That track obviously was not working.

All the while we were waiting several months for our scheduled appt. with the optometrist at IMSS. Well we had that appt perhaps in Oct/Nov. The doctor was great. He declared that my wife had cataracts. He even had ME look into his gizmo. Ok - tell them at the desk that we need to make an appt for surgery. We asked - will YOU do the procedure ? Oh - I hope they will let me - was the reply. So we go to the desk outside the doctor's office and attempt to make a new appt. Oh we are booked through the rest of this year - you need to return in January - when the new books are available - and set a new appt. 

In January we return to that desk and say - ok we need a new appt with Dr X (I don't remember his name). Oh - he has retired. You need to go to your primary care physician and have her approve you to make a new appt. We do that. our doctor has no problem. We return to the desk with our new approval form. Ok - first available appt is in four months. But - this isn't an appt for surgery - this is an initial appt with a new optometrist to begin the whole process over again.

Time for us to go private...

Maybe we have no business going to IMSS to begin with. I kind of had a surgeon at IMSS tell me pretty much exactly that. Why don't you just have your surgery done in the US when you return home. Oh but doctor we live here in Mexico - and in fact next month we will be Mexican citizens. Really - hmm - why would you do that ?


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

almot said:


> ...and nobody mentioned waiting times for emergency procedures in Canada. The discussion was about non-emergency procedures.
> 
> "Going private" - in the context of the mentioned procedure, i.e. going for private cataract surgery. Whether we want a two-tier system or not, is a bit an offtopic here. It already exists for cataract and few other ailments.
> 
> ...


In my 74 years of experiencing excellent Canadian healthcare, I have never once heard, read or used the term "Medicare surgeon", which sounds like a perjorative promulgated by the for-profit crowd intent on undermining our universal healthcare system........"Who did your surgery, a Medicare surgeon? Why didn't you go to a real surgeon, for goodness sake?"


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

HolyMole said:


> In my 74 years of experiencing excellent Canadian healthcare, I have never once heard, read or used the term "Medicare surgeon", which sounds like a perjorative promulgated by the for-profit crowd intent on undermining our universal healthcare system........"Who did your surgery, a Medicare surgeon? Why didn't you go to a real surgeon, for goodness sake?"


Here you go ...

https://www.expatforum.com/expats/canada-expat-forum-expats-living-canada/


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

lat19n said:


> Here you go ...
> 
> https://www.expatforum.com/expats/canada-expat-forum-expats-living-canada/


Smart guy, eh?........but I'm not an expat living in Canada.

I've noticed you Americans get a tad embarrassed when discussing health care, with good reason.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

HolyMole said:


> Smart guy, eh?........but I'm not an expat living in Canada.
> 
> I've noticed you Americans get a tad embarrassed when discussing health care, with good reason.


Actually - I am (now) a Mexican American and I couldn't care less about health care in the US. 

I was fortunate in that when I was working it was for a very very wealthy guy whose policy was - if you have medical expenses, bring them to me and I will pay them. Period. One year I gave him bills for around $500,000. He handed them to HR and said - take care of this. (HR was practiced in negotiating down those large bills).

He also helped me take care of a traffic ticket or two


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

lat19n said:


> Actually - I am (now) a Mexican American and I couldn't care less about health care in the US.
> 
> I was fortunate in that when I was working it was for a very very wealthy guy whose policy was - if you have medical expenses, bring them to me and I will pay them. Period. One year I gave him bills for around $500,000. He handed them to HR and said - take care of this. (HR was practiced in negotiating down those large bills).
> 
> He also helped me take care of a traffic ticket or two


You worked for Donald Trump ???


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

HolyMole said:


> You worked for Donald Trump ???


I'm not sure Donald Trump would pick up a dinner check. (And I'm not sure just how wealthy he is - maybe we will find out).


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I had Medicare back in the States. Didn't have much in expenses, but by the time I made the co- pays, it added up to more than I've been spending out of pocket in Mexico. Had successful cataract surgery several years ago in Mexico and it was a fraction of the cost it would have been in the U.S.. I could be wrong, but I think it isn't covered by Medicare at all. You know, it's okay for people to go deaf, blind or have their teeth fall out: not life threatening.

The U.S. should be embarrassed by the way health care is handled. We can choose to buy a clunker or a luxury car, but we don't get a choice about illness.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

_" Had successful cataract surgery several years ago in Mexico and it was a fraction of the cost it would have been in the U.S. I could be wrong, but I think it isn't covered by Medicare at all."
_
Well, yep you are wrong. Medicare foots the bill for cataract surgery in the US.... has for at least 50+ years that I personally know of.... so yours could not have been cheaper than zero.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

RickS said:


> _" Had successful cataract surgery several years ago in Mexico and it was a fraction of the cost it would have been in the U.S. I could be wrong, but I think it isn't covered by Medicare at all."
> _
> Well, yep you are wrong. Medicare foots the bill for cataract surgery in the US.... has for at least 50+ years that I personally know of.... so yours could not have been cheaper than zero.


But is it really zero ? 
And thanks for reminding me. We opted out of medicare coverage (whatever parts they were going to start charging for) for my wife and I need to do the same for myself right about now.
So - some part is automatic (and 'free') - does that 'part' include 'free' cataract surgery ?

Edit : we have no family in the US and would never impose on friends. So that would mean we would need to stay in a hotel. For us the normal Holiday Inn Express would run maybe $150 USD/night (free breakfast !) - what, figure 2 weeks ? Then we have the airfare - maybe $1000 USD ?? Car rental - close to another $1000 USD (or more). Other meals ?


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

We opted out of Medicare when we move to Mexico 15 years ago. That amounted to nearly $40,000 U.S. that we didn't pay for care we couldn't get outside of the U.S. That has taken care of any medical expenses we've had here and left a nice balance.
However, we know there is a large penalty if we should ever wish to have coverage in the U.S. again, so each person needs to decide on that one based on their own situation.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

No, it’s not free as one must “pay to participate” in Medicare... Part B premium covers Doctors etc, currently about $135 for folks like most of us. And there may be some sort of deductible or co-pay depending on the particular version of Medicare one has. 

I also agree that if one chooses to live full time in Mexico, retaining Part B payments is a crap shoot. And even if one does, your scenario of ‘how to pull it off’ is very valid.

My point was to correct the thought that 1)Medicare doesn’t cover cataract surgery in the US and 2) that it is done in Mexico at a fraction of the (outlay) cost to Medicare receipients in the US. That part is just not true.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Point granted. I didn't know if cataract surgery was covered or not. My understanding is that hearing issues and dental procedures are not. I don't think there is any disagreement that the cost of cataract surgery as well as many other medical and dental procedures is much less in Mexico than in the U.S. for those paying out of pocket.

The concept of denying health insurance to those who need it the most (those with pre-existing conditions) is mean-spirited capitalism at its worst, and it was a good thing that Mexico instituted Seguro Popular, which covers everybody who wants it. At this point, we don't know the ultimate fate of that program, but at least the initial concept was humane.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

I couldn’t agree with your more about dental cost in Mexico! 

Hearing and eyewear are not covered by Original Medicare but some/many/all Medicare Advantage programs have at least some coverage for one or both. And I understand that about half the Medicare receipients are now using an Advantage program. IMO that coverage is ‘paultry’ and is used more for advertising that for real patient benefit!

Also since most/all folks who have cataract surgery are ‘old’ and covered by Medicare, the ultimate cost of that is close to nothing in the US, making it a much better deal than out of pocket in Mexico.

My recent experience is that the cost of ‘glasses’ is also more economical in the US as there are a ton of providers at both the doctor level and the eyewear level so competition is fierce keeping cost to the patient way down.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

In the Lake Chapala area, we have a few optometrists and opticians who sell you glasses for a huge range of prices. Most of it depends on the "fashion factor" . The one I use usually charges me $200 pesos for a plain prescription lens when I bring in my own frames. How does that compare with the U.S.? (I only need glasses for reading and computer: the cataract surgery solved the distance problem)


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

lagoloo said:


> In the Lake Chapala area, we have a few optometrists and opticians who sell you glasses for a huge range of prices. Most of it depends on the "fashion factor" . The one I use usually charges me $200 pesos for a plain prescription lens when I bring in my own frames. How does that compare with the U.S.? (I only need glasses for reading and computer: the cataract surgery solved the distance problem)


I brought my backup frames to Costco for new lens in the fall. The progressive lens (nothing fancy) were on sale and I think they cost something like 2000 or 3000 pesos. 

My wife has worn contacts for as long as I have known her. We thought the price at Costco was good until I shopped online in the US and found that even with the shipping the lens were much cheaper (exact same product), and only took a week or so to get here. With any luck she won't need contacts after her cataract surgery.

btw - we renewed our IMSS insurance this week. Although we stayed in the same age band - our coverage cost us 18% more over last year. I'm hoping that between my blood pressure meds and my wife's glaucoma drops we can recoup some of the cost.


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