# Banking questions



## Randy&Kathy (Feb 11, 2019)

Good day to you all,

Due to the uncertainties of COVID-19, it has been some time since I have posted. My wife and I have been planning to move to Spain when I retire this summer. We know that currently we cannot enter Spain, however she is a Greek citizen and we have our marriage information duly officially translated and certified for Greece. Our financial situation, while not robust, is such that we have more than sufficient savings and my Social Security income and IRA disbursements, and eventually hers, are such that individually we would both meet all the asset and income requirements for both of our residency requirements in Spain. However our assets are such that every extra month we would stay in the United States after I retire would in essence start to drain our resources due to the high cost of living.

As a result we have been doing a lot of research on Greece as an interim measure until such time as the borders with Spain open and we can enter. Not our ideal plan but one we have found will be workable. It also will allow us to travel to Spain much more inexpensively and faster than were we to remain in the US so we can establish ourselves once that becomes possible.

So to my questions:

We would like to hear about recommendations for, or warnings about, online banks, especially those that offer IBAN numbers for EU country of residence and any issues in having that country of residence changed once we relocate to Spain.

Does anyone have experience with direct deposit of US Social Security payments and US held private retirement payments to these types of accounts?

I anticipate that once we arrive in Spain we will want to open an account with a bank that has a physical presence as we plan to apply for a mortgage. We plan to settle in Granada so any recommendations/experiences with the banks there would be appreciated. I should add that, despite that my wife will be registering as an autonimo, for the modest mortgage we would seek we plan to keep our expectations within the bounds of being able make all payments and meet our living expenses based on my retirement income alone, which will hopefully keep the banks happy and willing to lend.

Any recommendations, insights and comments appreciated.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Are you asking about an US bank with an IBAN? All EU banks have IBAN and most around the world. Even US banks will have one but they aren't often mentioned.

Depending on where in the US you are HSBC US and HSBC Greece might be an option for you. They also have an expat bank out of the Jersey islands.


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## Randy&Kathy (Feb 11, 2019)

NickZ said:


> Are you asking about an US bank with an IBAN? . . . HSBC US. . .


Thank you for the information. We are currently in Seattle and we've had experience with HSBC in the past.

We are asking about EU banks.

We are particularly interested in information from people who have had experience using any of the banks in the EU that only operate on line or have a limited physical footprint. We are curious if they would offer us more flexibility when we make the final move from Greece to Spain, if Social Security and retirement disbursements from the US can be directly deposited, and do they really offer any advantage over banking with an international bank such as HSBC or Deutsche Bank. 

From what we have read not all of them have IBAN for every country in the EU available, which is why we are seeking opinions from people who have experience banking with them. At present we are relying on what we find on websites, blogs, and reviews whose bias or accuracy is sometimes hard to decipher and we find a fair amount of conflicting information.

Thank you


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Randy&Kathy said:


> Thank you for the information. We are currently in Seattle and we've had experience with HSBC in the past.
> 
> We are asking about EU banks.
> 
> ...


I don't think you can be an EU bank without an IBAN.

All the banks are heavily moving online. It was happening before covid but the lockdowns have just accelerated the process. 

Let's put it this way. I haven't been into an HSBC branch in I think six years. Even that wasn't my bank or even my country. I flew into London to sign some paperwork. Visited the city. Flew home. I manage everything online or over the phone. Website or app. 

One thing to look out for is some routine bill payments are easier if you have a local bank. Companies don't seem to like setting up direct debits to non local banks. They shouldn't be doing that in the Euro zone but they still do.


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## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi
I am British, living on the Costa Blanca, and I use the online "bank" Transferwise. My UK income is paid in GBP, to a UK IBAN registered to TW in London. I then use TW to convert to euros, using an IBAN registered to TW in Belgium. I then use my TW debit card to make purchases and withdraw cash. I also pay direct debits using the Belgian IBAN - the fact that I'm in Spain is irrelevant, I could just as well be in Greece (so far as I know). 

I can also convert money to USD, in which case an ACH routing number is used, not an IBAN. The routing number is registered to TW in New York. However direct debits are not fully supported in the USA.

To reiterate, the Belgian IBAN can be used from anywhere in the eurozone, at least in theory.

I suggest you register with TW soon, it doesn't cost anything, so far as I remember. To get the above facilities you will need to get their "Borderless" account. You can then play around and get the hang of it, although it's very simple in practice.

Hope I've helped!

Steve


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## Randy&Kathy (Feb 11, 2019)

stevec2x said:


> Hope I've helped!
> 
> Steve


Thank you Steve, this is exactly the information I was looking for.

I should have been clearer and mentioned Transferwise, N26, Revolut, and bunq in my post. I had a chance to do a little more specific digging around on the web today and Transferwise appears to be a good option. At least until we can actually make the move to Spain we need something that we can use to access our funds in the US. With the restrictions for moving money out of Greece we don't want resources stuck there when we will need them in Spain.

I appreciate your feedback, it helps to have feedback from someone who uses the service. I will need to set up something for my Social Security payments in the next month, so this helps.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

NickZ said:


> I don't think you can be an EU bank without an IBAN.
> 
> All the banks are heavily moving online. It was happening before covid but the lockdowns have just accelerated the process.
> 
> ...


Agree with what is said here. An IBAN is not something banks "offer" or not; it's a legal requirement and not restricted to European countries only


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Randy&Kathy said:


> With the restrictions for moving money out of Greece


That makes me think I should have been clearer.

My suggestion with HSBC was

Check if you qualify for a free Premier account with HSBC USA. If so tell them you're moving to Greece and need a local Greek account.

You end up with an USA account with credit card and ATM cards. Leave your direct deposit here.

A Greek account with ATM cards to pay your utilities etc. Give them enough notice and you'll have your account and cards before leaving home.

Assuming you qualify for a free account in the USA this ends up free around the world with any HSBC bank. Greece, Jersey islands, France , Germany etc.

Your money remains in the USA with FIDC protection.

If you don't qualify then the monthly fees likely make this a bad option. OTOH most expats are going to qualify.


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## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Randy&Kathy said:


> Thank you Steve, this is exactly the information I was looking for.
> 
> I should have been clearer and mentioned Transferwise, N26, Revolut, and bunq in my post. I had a chance to do a little more specific digging around on the web today and Transferwise appears to be a good option. At least until we can actually make the move to Spain we need something that we can use to access our funds in the US. With the restrictions for moving money out of Greece we don't want resources stuck there when we will need them in Spain.
> 
> I appreciate your feedback, it helps to have feedback from someone who uses the service. I will need to set up something for my Social Security payments in the next month, so this helps.


Glad to help!
I forgot to say that TW cannot provide mortgages or overdrafts. 
Steve


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## Randy&Kathy (Feb 11, 2019)

NickZ said:


> That makes me think I should have been clearer.
> 
> Assuming you qualify for a free account in the USA this ends up free around the world with any HSBC bank. Greece, Jersey islands, France , Germany etc.
> 
> ...


This is very interesting, we will be sure to look into this.

I probably didn't frame my request very well. From what I have read online not all of the virtual banks offer virtual Spanish IBANs and that some services in Spain require one. I do not know if that actually is true. Greece banking is it's own can of worms which there is no need here to go into here, best case we won't have to do so, but trying to give ourselves as much financial flexibility as we can in the event we have to begin our move there.

We would like to know of any experiences, difficulties with using a virtual bank to establish services. Eventually we will need a Spanish bank for a mortgage, and had actually been planning to set up an account this spring, but that trip to lay the groundwork for our move is not looking likely at this point.

Thank you all


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You don't really need a Spanish mortgage. You just need a loan from somebody. Assuming your income is going to be US$ getting an € mortgage exposes you to currency risk. If your local bank is willing to give you a loan for the purchase that would then be paid back in US$.


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Randy&Kathy said:


> From what I have read online not all of the virtual banks offer virtual Spanish IBANs and that some services in Spain require one. I do not know if that actually is true. Greece banking is it's own can of worms which there is no need here to go into here, best case we won't have to do so, but trying to give ourselves as much financial flexibility as we can in the event we have to begin our move there.
> 
> We would like to know of any experiences, difficulties with using a virtual bank to establish services. Eventually we will need a Spanish bank for a mortgage, and had actually been planning to set up an account this spring, but that trip to lay the groundwork for our move is not looking likely at this point.


Hi, I have an online only account in the UK with a bank called Starling. They issue a EURO account with a GB IBAN code. This code has been rejected by the Spanish insurance company DKV Seguros. Technically, this is against Spanish law, but DKV don't care - they just reply that their system only accepts Spanish accounts. You may experience a lot of this.

The GB code was, however, accepted by a company in France so I know it works. I'm waiting to see if there will be further implications now post-Brexit, e.g. if their French bank start charging them a fee because of my GB code (in which case I'll have to change it again...).

Starling emailed account holders last week, I quote the message below:



> A few of our euro account customers have recently run into a couple of issues with euro payments.
> 
> Although the UK isn’t part of the EU anymore, it’s still part of the Single European Payments Area (SEPA), which means you can still make SEPA payments from your euro account. However, some banks and providers are now treating British bank accounts differently, resulting in a few potential issues:
> 
> ...


For money transfers, a relative reports using Xoom to transfer UK->Spain without any charges to receive in Spain. The money is paid to the Spanish bank by Xoom's account with a Luxembourgish IBAN. This relative was warned by a Spanish bank manager that from now on, any transfers from UK banks would have an extra fee.


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## anh12 (Apr 17, 2019)

Hi Randy and Kathy,

Fellow American here, planning to retire to Spain soon. I bought a house in Spain in 2019, then Covid happened, I got stuck in the Middle East at work, and I haven’t been in Spain, or anywhere else, for over a year. This past year has made me rethink my retirement plans. I’m now throwing in the towel and doing it sooner than expected. Hopefully the border restrictions will change and I can get there in the next few months. If not, I’ll be heading to - get this - Seattle.

I opened an account in a physical Spanish bank, Sabadell, as a non-resident with an American address. (I use a relative’s address in the US, something that has been really helpful for years now, while I keep changing countries of residency for work.) It’s all gone smoothly. I was able to transfer money for the house purchase from my US bank to Banco Sabadell using Currency Fair, which saved me a lot of money and went very well. I can highly recommend Currency Fair. I’ve used it to transfer money to several different countries now without being charged the usual high bank fees. They're not a bank but have their own accounts in different countries. It’s worth checking out. I now use Banco Sabadell for local house-related payments. It’s really easy to do everything online or via the app, and they offer all their services in English if you wish.

My plan is to keep my bank account in the US and have retirement income go there, and then use Currency Fair to transfer funds to the Spanish bank as needed. They arrive as if they were sent locally - no international fees.

I looked into having an account in a large bank with branches in both Spain and the US many years ago, when I was moving from Spain to the US and wanted to be able to transfer easily. At that time the branches in Spain and the branches in the US might as well have been different banks altogether. There was no benefit whatsoever. I’m sure things have improved since then, but I’ve become wary of international branches. I've also learned that the most difficult banks to work with, still, are the American banks. Currency Fair is something different, worth looking into, and makes life much easier. 

Good luck! Fingers crossed for us all that Spain will let us in by the summer!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

When I moved to Spain at the end of October 2020, I opened an online account with N26, based in Germany but operates throughout EU (but not UK). I was issued with Spanish IBAN and have had no problem transferring funds in Euro from UK (using Transferwise to convert from Sterling) and making payment here. Though I haven't yet set up direct debit, I don't foresee any problem, as the bank gives clear instruction on how to set up DD in Spain.


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