# Retirement $ from the IRS



## Lvato (Sep 15, 2013)

I was self deported as a long term resident at the end of 1999 (long story) and I am all ready a 61 year old man with a College Degree from Mexico, but is a College Degree that no one wants to hire. However, I am looking for my retirement from the more than 20 years paying taxes and have no intention to loose my retirement money, like the braceros from the `50s.

If any body knows or has done a deal wit the IRS regarding the retirement, could you let me know with who do I have to get in touch.

Didn`t new abouth the Form 8854 until a few hour ago and now have to deal with it. Had been reading the WSquared thread and the Bevdeforges answers regarding to the issue.

Hop some one can gide me to the best way to deal with the IRS and have my retirement benefits. Have done my yearly taxes since 1978 with a legal S. S. No. under my name and had been a legal residence since the 1986 armisty.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Lvato said:


> I was self deported as a long term resident at the end of 1999 (long story) and I am already a 61 year old man with a College Degree from Mexico, but it is a College Degree that no one wants to hire. However, I am looking for my retirement from the more than 20 years paying taxes and have no intention to lose my retirement money, like the braceros from the '50s.
> 
> If any body knows or has done a deal with the IRS regarding the retirement, could you let me know with whom do I have to get in touch.
> 
> ...


The IRS collects taxes; it does not handle retirement benefits. The organization you need to talk to is the Social Security Administration. If you go to their web site, you can create an account, look at the records they have for you and find out what your benefit will be.


----------



## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Here's a link on the Social Security website that applies specifically to people living outside the US:
International Programs
When I became eligible for Social Security benefits, I contacted the Foreign Benefits Unit at the US Consulate in Guadalajara, and they helped me set everything up, including direct deposit of my payments to my bank account in Mexico. There is a similar office in Ciudad Juarez, so you might also try contacting them: [email protected]

Good luck!


----------



## cescolar (May 31, 2013)

Lvato said:


> Have done my yearly taxes since 1978 with a legal S. S. No. under my name and had been a legal residence since the 1986 armisty.


In order to get Social Security benefits and not be a US resident, you need to be a US CITIZEN. So if you never became a citizen and want your Social Security benefits, you need to go back to live in the US...perhaps then you can become a citizen and move back to Mexico?

I was a green card holder for many years, and finally decided to become a citizen. Good thing because otherwise I would not have been able to retire to Brazil and get my Social Security benefits!

I was considering giving up my citizenship to avoid double (and triple!) taxation, but I can't afford to lose my Social Security benefits...


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

cescolar said:


> In order to get Social Security benefits and not be a US resident, you need to be a US CITIZEN. So if you never became a citizen and want your Social Security benefits, you need to go back to live in the US...perhaps then you can become a citizen and move back to Mexico?
> 
> I was a green card holder for many years, and finally decided to become a citizen. Good thing because otherwise I would not have been able to retire to Brazil and get my Social Security benefits!
> 
> I was considering giving up my citizenship to avoid double (and triple!) taxation, but I can't afford to lose my Social Security benefits...


The above information is NOT correct.

Noncitizens receiving Social Security benefits


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I believe that many non-citizens, who have worked legally in the USA, paying into a legal personal Social Security account for a sufficient number of quarters, are able to claim and receive their benefits after the age of 62 for partial benefits, or 65 for full benefits. The Foreign Benefits Unit at the US Consulate, or the SS website should be the definitive source for information.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> The above information is NOT correct.
> 
> Noncitizens receiving Social Security benefits


I was too hasty with my response. cescolar may be correct that a non-citizen eligible for social security benefits may have to reside in the US to collect.


----------



## cescolar (May 31, 2013)

In your link I read:

"Once an alien worker has met eligibility criteria, we must have evidence of the lawful presence of the beneficiary. That means before we can pay out benefits for any given month, we must have evidence during that month the beneficiary was either:
- A United States citizen;
- A United States national; or
- An alien lawfully present in the United States."

So that means that an alien only gets social security benefits for the months he is "lawfully present in the United States"


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I think he needs to get definitive information from the right agency, rather than from web board members. This is too important a matter to rely on any of us.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The mention of self-deportation would indicate illegal status, to begin with. Perhaps those who were legal and established eligibility before 2004 might be OK; or, maybe they are maintaining a presence in the USA, even after having returned to Mexico, for example, after retirement. I believe that many Mexicans, living in Mexico after retiring from legal jobs and legal residence in the USA, do receive SS benefits deposited directly to Mexican bank accounts.
Did something change in 2004? Perhaps. So, the OP must rely on the official SS website or other official SS source for the correct answer. Either, we do not know or are not up to date.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


cescolar said:



In order to get Social Security benefits and not be a US resident, you need to be a US CITIZEN. So if you never became a citizen and want your Social Security benefits, you need to go back to live in the US...perhaps then you can become a citizen and move back to Mexico?

I was a green card holder for many years, and finally decided to become a citizen. Good thing because otherwise I would not have been able to retire to Brazil and get my Social Security benefits!

I was considering giving up my citizenship to avoid double (and triple!) taxation, but I can't afford to lose my Social Security benefits...

Click to expand...

_The above assertion is _absolutely _untrue. You need not be a U.S. citizen or resident to receive social securiy benefits fron the U.S Social Security Administration. If you have earned those benefits by working in the United States for the required amount of time to receive benefits if you lived in Kansas, then you will receive those benefit payments until you expire whether you are a citizen or resident of that country or a resident of another country acceptable to the U.S. government . Mexico is absolutely acceptable and there is no equivocacy about that. 

Incidentally, you can become a Mexican citizen with no residency rights or citizenship in the U.S. _whatsoever and _those SSA beneits will role in monthly forever until you kick the bucket. Then you are on your own.


----------



## cescolar (May 31, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> I think he needs to get definitive information from the right agency, rather than from web board members. This is too important a matter to rely on any of us.


The link Noncitizens receiving Social Security benefits is from the official Social Security website.
He can call the Social Security hotline:

from http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/services.htm:

"By calling 1-800-772-1213, you can use our automated telephone services to get recorded information and conduct some business 24 hours a day. If you cannot handle your business through our automated services, you can speak to a Social Security representative between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. Monday through Friday. Generally, you’ll have a shorter wait time if you call during the week after Tuesday. If you are deaf or hard of hearing, call our toll-free TTY number, 1-800-325-0778, between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. Monday through Friday."


----------



## cescolar (May 31, 2013)

*Unfair but true...*



Hound Dog said:


> The above assertion is _absolutely _untrue.


My information comes from the Social Security website. I agree that it is not fair that legal aliens who had contributed into Social Security while working in the US lose all that when they retire in their own country. The law should be that they should receive part of their benefits, discounted for the fact that they do not have to pay US taxes. Sadly, that is not the current law!

The reason the Social Security administration has that rule is that if an alien is no longer a US resident, he/she does not have to pay any US taxes, while US citizens have to keep on paying US taxes till death, no matter which country the reside in.
The US and Eritrea are the only 2 countries in the world that tax their citizens without regard to their country of residence! Incredible...

There is a proposal going around to modify the tax code so US citizens residing abroad could ask the IRS to be given a new tax status (yet to be created) and pay a flat percentage on their US earnings, and nothing in the US for their foreign earning. That is what all other civilized countried do! :moony:


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=cescolar;2545153]My information comes from the Social Security website. I agree that it is not fair that legal aliens who had contributed into Social Security while working in the US lose all that when they retire in their own country. The law should be that they should receive part of their benefits, discounted for the fact that they do not have to pay US taxes. Sadly, that is not the current law!

The reason the Social Security administration has that rule is that if an alien is no longer a US resident, he/she does not have to pay any US taxes, while US citizens have to keep on paying US taxes till death, no matter which country the reside in.
The US and Eritrea are the only 2 countries in the world that tax their citizens without regard to their country of residence! Incredible...

There is a proposal going around to modify the tax code so US citizens residing abroad could ask the IRS to be given a new tax status (yet to be created) and pay a flat percentage on their US earnings, and nothing in the US for their foreign earning. That is what all other civilized countried do! :moony:[/QUOTE]_

I have no idea where this poster came up with this information but it is nonsense. Non-U.S. citizens who are non-resident in the United States do have tax obligations for their U.S. social security benefits if they have other income that so obligates them. If social securiy benefits are their sole source of income they may have no tax obligations whether they reside in Alabama or Eritrea or, for that matter Ouwagadougoo, Burkino Faso. This poster, in all due respect, has a politcial agenda and his/her comments should be read with that in mind.

If you earned your income in the United States and have tax deferred pension or social security benefits, pay your taxes annually as any decent person should when they come due and stop grousing.


----------



## cescolar (May 31, 2013)

> I have no idea where this poster came up with this information but it is nonsense. Non-U.S. citizens who are non-resident in the United States do have tax obligations for their U.S. social security benefits if they have other income that so obligates them. If social securiy benefits are their sole source of income they may have no tax obligations whether they reside in Alabama or Eritrea or, for that matter Ouwagadougoo, Burkino Faso. This poster, in all due respect, has a politcial agenda and his/her comments should be read with that in mind.
> 
> If you earned your income in the United States and have tax deferred pension or social security benefits, pay your taxes annually as any decent person should when they come due and stop grousing.


Once again, I did not make this up! The information came from the Social Securiy website! (click on Noncitizens receiving Social Security benefits and read it yourself!)

How do you interpret this?:

"Once an alien worker has met eligibility criteria, we must have evidence of the lawful presence of the beneficiary. That means before we can pay out benefits for any given month, we must have evidence during that month the beneficiary was either:
- A United States citizen;
- A United States national; or
- An alien lawfully present in the United States."

I think it means that a legal alien can apply to receive Social Security, but will only receive it for each month he/she expends in the US, even on vacation!

That is the same way unemployment compensation works (at least in New Jersey.) They only pay you the months you are in the state.

BTW, I don't have any political agenda, other that an interests on having fair laws! I am sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but don't kill the messenger!

I would love to be wrong about this...perhaps there are special rules for Mexico?
But please offer some proof if that is the case!

I was trying to be helpful to Lvato, by sugesting a solution: coming back to the US, becoming a citizen and then going back to Mexico...probably not an easy thing to do...


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

You are wrong in spades. So, rejoice. You can receive SSA benefits in full no matter whether you are a U.S. citizen or resident for as long as you are breathing on this planet and live in a country where those benefits are allowed which includes just abour _everywhere _except maybe Pyongyang or Teheran. You are speading bad information and that is indefensible.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

cescolar said:


> Once again, I did not make this up! The information came from the Social Securiy website! (click on Noncitizens receiving Social Security benefits and read it yourself!)
> 
> How do you interpret this?:
> 
> ...


You may have to prove you were lawfully in the States working but if you paid into the system with a valid green card you are entitled to receive SS payments. With of course the caveat that you can't reside in certain countries such as North Korea, which Hound Dog alluded to.


----------



## cescolar (May 31, 2013)

Hound Dog said:


> You are wrong in spades. So, rejoice. You can receive SSA benefits in full no matter whether you are a U.S. citizen or resident for as long as you are breathing on this planet and live in a country where those benefits are allowed which includes just abour _everywhere _except maybe Pyongyang or Teheran. You are speading bad information and that is indefensible.


Can you offer any proof of what you are saying?

How do you explain the information posted in the SSA website?

I don't mean to spread bad information. I am just posting what the SSA says.
Perhaps I interpreted it wrong... But even though I am not from Missouri, please SHOW ME!

This is very important information for any legal alien who is planning to retire outside the US. I am personally very interested in it because I would then consider giving up my US citizenship.

I was born in Spain, became a US citizen and now reside in Brazil. I have to pay capital gains in all 3 countries from my gains in Spain! If I gave up my US citizenship it would be only 2...(which is still too much, but, oh well!)
And I can't afford to lose my Social Security benefits...


----------



## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> So, the OP must rely on the official SS website or other official SS source for the correct answer. Either, we do not know or are not up to date.


No kidding. Nothing is more ludicrous that seeing a group of people arguing with each other over a subject about which they know absolutely nothing for certain.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

The OP might consider posting his query on the USA Forum.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

The OP should check this out: Receiving benefits if outside the United States.


----------



## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> The OP might consider posting his query on the USA Forum.


That is actually a very constructive idea.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> The OP should check this out: Receiving benefits if outside the United States.


I think the OP is in a bind. That link as well as the earlier one, make it clear that CITIZENs can collect benefits where ever they live, but non-citizens that have earned Social Security benefits can only collect when they are resident in the US. 

The original poster, a naturalized US citizen, wants to give up his citizenship because he is currently paying taxes in three countries, his country of birth, Spain?, the US and his country of residence, Brazil. It looks like he would lose his social security benefits if he did.


----------



## mr_manny (Nov 22, 2013)

US Social Security plays a part in my long-term retirement plans.
I hope it's still around for when I reach 62...may need to think about a plan B.


----------



## zapfilms (Dec 11, 2012)

This does seem contradictory information. These days SS does not send out checks, they do direct deposit to your US bank account. So you probably a US bank account. Then maybe a visit to the office in the state/city where you worked. I´m not clear if you are eligible to come into the USA? Its certainly important enough to warrant it.

Best idea is plan on spending some hours on the phone, cheap with magic jack or skype, and dial the SS info number and talk. Yours is a particular case, not too usual, so don´t count on the first admin you get - try it a few times documenting names and position and speaking to managers - they are just bureaucrats and have no authority to blacklist you.

By the way, the braceros were a particular and sad case. The Mexicans in govt at the time, the old PRI, pocketed their SS $$, not as was rumored the USA. They tended to be rural working class and not educated and left all the paperwork to the govt., not a great idea anywhere. Plenty of Mexican former US workers do recieve their SS benefits here in Mexico - it would be nice to get ahold of a state office that handles lots of them to learn the rules - SoCal, AZ, Chicago probably deal with lots. SSA is a particularly reliable US agency, a very popular program


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

zapfilms said:


> These days SS does not send out checks, they do direct deposit to your US bank account. So you probably a US bank account. recieve their SS benefits here in Mexico


You don't need a US bank account to have your Social Security pension sent by direct deposit. I recently changed my designated bank from Bank of America to Santander, my Mexican bank. I did it over the phone with the FBU (Federal Benefits Office) at the US Embassy in Mexico City. It went very smoothly and I have already received my first SS deposit right on time to my Santander account.


----------

