# Purchase tax



## Bonio

Hello to existing users

I guess this has been covered more than once so please excuse my asking again.

I am about to purchase a parcel of building land in Abruzzo, no ruin, just land. I have never found the definitive answers to the following...

how much registration tax is payable when buying building land ?
my intention is to become a resident, does a smaller rate apply ?

many thanks


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## Goingtoitalia

Bonio said:


> Hello to existing users
> 
> I guess this has been covered more than once so please excuse my asking again.
> 
> I am about to purchase a parcel of building land in Abruzzo, no ruin, just land. I have never found the definitive answers to the following...
> 
> how much registration tax is payable when buying building land ?
> my intention is to become a resident, does a smaller rate apply ?
> 
> many thanks


I don't know if it has been covered before. The only person that truly knows is the notario doing the deed and paperwork. You could as in my case owe some money to the church, even though my plot of land was small about 20 feet by 40 feet, I still owed!!! It also depends on the purchase price??? Have you bought in Italy before??? You are in for a little shock, you pay part of the price with a check the other in cash... I will not tell you why, but guess.. Taxes are very nominal on property. Not like the US where they are in the thousands every year. Plus Italy didn't have property tax until 1996. The rate is lower once you become a resident. But, unless you are building a massive residence on major grounds, the difference will be not very much. You have two years to claim residency otherwise they back tax you... Just pay it and if you get residency, then apply for the difference.


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## bunty16

Bonio said:


> Hello to existing users
> 
> I guess this has been covered more than once so please excuse my asking again.
> 
> I am about to purchase a parcel of building land in Abruzzo, no ruin, just land. I have never found the definitive answers to the following...
> 
> how much registration tax is payable when buying building land ?
> my intention is to become a resident, does a smaller rate apply ?
> 
> many thanks


I was told I would have to become a resident within 18 months, and the agency have reminded me of this,


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## italy

Bonio said:


> Hello to existing users
> 
> I guess this has been covered more than once so please excuse my asking again.
> 
> I am about to purchase a parcel of building land in Abruzzo, no ruin, just land. I have never found the definitive answers to the following...
> 
> how much registration tax is payable when buying building land ?
> my intention is to become a resident, does a smaller rate apply ?
> 
> many thanks



building land is subject to IVA.. this is a value added tax (VAT) in the uk.. which is a sales purchase tax and has different levels up to 20 % and is not the same as the tax when you buy a property which you are entirely right about regarding residence and non resident values.. 4 % or 11 % .. which is made up of different types of taxs within

you should get a quote form the people you are buying from with the tax listed separately.. and get a quote from the notary as regards their bill... these things can all be done so there is no need to walk blindly into any deal..

the time is 18 months in which you can become resident.. this means that you have to show that you can support your life in Italy without being a burden on the state and includes producing bank statements that you have sufficient funds and health insurance that can be shown to say you will not be a burden on the health system.. guaranteed rights apply to those with an Italian heritage or other EU citizens .. and one should make sure if your budget is tight that you are going to qualify for residency.. 

its obvious also that if buying a ruin or a building plot it will not be possible to live in that ..but you need to obtain residency anyway if using tax advantages.. so rent a place within the comune of your property and arrive at your residency in that way before the 18 months are up to avoid fines and the difference in the tax rates...

it is most important to start this well before the 18 month deadline... it can take up to 6 months in some comunes to get the bit of paper.. and there have been various stories of unhelpful comune officials putting barriers in the way and making it much more difficult than it really should be... its very comune specific.. so hard to offer real timescales.. 

finally buying building land is a specialist knowledge thing.. make sure you see the papers that are from the comune listing it as such and the specific volume which is being given permission on that piece of ground.. planning permission will take a while.. and that agin will make tax rates in some comunes within the purchase process look quite low.. some planning comunes have very high rates.. get an estimate of what it will cost for the plans to be approved by the comune..( in writing) and also what it will cost at the end of the build for the property to be declared as safe to live in.. (registered as a habitable building) also costly in some areas.. without that final certificate you cannot live in the place..

do not sign any contracts with any architects or geometras you will find that by doing so you agree to pay them their fee if they work for you or not and that if you do not use them they will have the project rights over your build making it impossible for anyone else to work until they have been paid off.. be very careful to not even do this verbally as they do not need a written contract to enforce their rights to money from you.. so be sure about who you choose at the start.. and do not give anyone else any docs to do with the land or papers that will allow them to say you hired them until you are sure who you want to go with

finally should you build there are options to cut the IVA on building materials if you are resident.. it involves a lot more paperwork and control.. but can be worth it.. but would think you would need to be resident in the comune before you could get these rates.. a good geometra will advice..

architect fees.. around 15 % plus vat on the total costs... 

geomtera fees are lower 11-13 % plus vat on total costs...

however both of these can and most probably will call in their project people.. engineers and geologists.. depends on their level of qualification.. like all things Italian its not simple.. ie a geometra can be a high school graduate allowing hi to charge the lowest rate .. or he can have gone on and qualified as a geometra with engineering skills allowing him to project a building alone but then his rate will be higher say 13-15 % of total cost..

get used to adding the IVA rate to every price they quote... better still get all their quotes to include IVA and their professional body charges.. this is another tax they never mention.. the architect/geometra has to belong to a professional body who level a tax on all their projects ..around 3 % so get that added in too..

sorry it might all be a bit confusing but the purchase tax will be the least of your cost worries to my mind.. and by the way new laws have made it distinctly costly to try and pay cash here.. all payments have to be registered at the final act including fees paid.. and no cash payments above 5000 euro should be made to anyone..its against the law.. they should all be paid by cheques.. in fact always use cheques ..as they are lowering cash payment amounts all the time and should your bank red flag you for making too many cash withdrawals you will find tax authorities taking an interest in your project as well


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## Bonio

Many thanks for that reply, italy.

Everything clearly revolves around getting good trustworthy professionals on the project...such as geometras and solicitors. I have 2 such firms in mind and I am satisfied that the estate agency is honest and ethical, but making that FINAL decision to proceed is proving difficult for me.

Getting precise recommendations is what we all need I guess.


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## Goingtoitalia

It is probably much simpler to pay 11% taxes, then worry about getting your residency in 18 months. So far I haven't met anybody that was able to do it. Either money or life problems come up and it always takes longer. I think "Italy" referred to the dream sequence before, unless you are 100% financed, capable of not being a burden and stick the course, your dream of building and residency will not come to reality. This takes a 100% commitment. The more ideal way would be to spend your 6 months in Italy in the town where you would like to move with a fair priced rental, not a holiday rental!!!!!! See if you really like it, then proceed. Either that or buy a "modern" house already built! Still will take time for residency....


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## Bonio

WOW, sounds like I've opened a can of worms here with a new build project!

It also sounds like I'm being advised against it.
Is there someone out there that has trodden this path successfully...... and has something positive to say about the process?


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## oldjerry

Goingtoitalia said:


> It is probably much simpler to pay 11% taxes, then worry about getting your residency in 18 months. So far I haven't met anybody that was able to do it. Either money or life problems come up and it always takes longer. I think "Italy" referred to the dream sequence before, unless you are 100% financed, capable of not being a burden and stick the course, your dream of building and residency will not come to reality. This takes a 100% commitment. The more ideal way would be to spend your 6 months in Italy in the town where you would like to move with a fair priced rental, not a holiday rental!!!!!! See if you really like it, then proceed. Either that or buy a "modern" house already built! Still will take time for residency....


I couldn't possibly agree more with ALL of the above.Do the 6 or even 12 months trial first.We had family ties,property to move to ,one of us has dual nationality,we've lived in Italy before,we both have good Italian,(Im a trained,experienced language teacher),.........and it still takes a lot of commitment,and ,to be fair,good fortune to relocate successfully.Dont let that put you off entirely,but as others have advised,eyes wide open,take it slow,and in my experience at least,only deal with estate agencies on the internet if they advertise in Italian! Best Wishes.


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## italy

Bonio said:


> WOW, sounds like I've opened a can of worms here with a new build project!
> 
> It also sounds like I'm being advised against it.
> Is there someone out there that has trodden this path successfully...... and has something positive to say about the process?


there was another reply above which gave good advice on experiencing life here via a rental first.. 

to be perfectly honest a project and new build is not a can of worms for people that live here full time and have good local contacts.. but it really is just that much less costly to undertake a project of this sort for a local Italian with good local contacts much as it would be say for you to do the same thing in your own home town as a against a stranger arriving..

funny thing is that it seems the english speaking communities world wide do things in a different way to other nationalities.. although i am UK english so maybe its just us.. ( i actually believe i am more a european than english now) having spent most of my adult life in mainland europe... 

it seems to me that the main problem for UK people..i will limit it to that .. is that they feel the need to listen to other UK people and most UK people i have heard about tend to arrive here and set themselves up as experts in something or other..even if only accentuating stories that have been told before and are not really that true.. to show how native they are...

things like buying house via the locals and or bars.. is really not very good advice unless you are actually a local.. this is often offered by those that bought with agents and have pretty secure property at a pretty reasonable price and yet they want to help the neighbors get a bit of cash whilst earning favors for themselves...
to be honest a disastrous situation for a buyer.. acting because he trusts a fellow native to guide him around pitfalls where as the fellow native is looking to get favors via the local natives and really has no level of Italian that will allow him or her to fully understand the legal status of the property.. acting only the fact that the neighbor has always smiled at them and brought them eggs and tomatoes...

now if you start using this sort of approach its bound to end in disaster.. which is often why you get comments suggesting major amounts of caution.. because the english speaking market here in Abruzzo is important but small and many people have set themselves up with quite carefully constructed friendly approaches to sell property here...without or with qualifications.. sadly using as their operating guidelines.. because half of them were scouts for them in any case most probably the most infamous but largest agency here in Abruzzo

so Abruzzo has suffered quite badly from exploitation in that sense and quite often people because they used really quite easily identifiable shysters because they threw caution out the door because the deal was good then continue to suggest ways to avoid costs even though they fell into traps..

Italy is full of registered reasonably well balanced estate agents selling property of all sorts at prices below what locals are trying to get and more often than not without any complicated hidden problems who will act for you for a fee and make sure you end up with a secure property that is all yours and is habitable..

thats how we buy houses here.. and you would be amazed what we get to hear about some properties and prices.. we have had locals asking double the normal price and refusing to sell at anything below.. we work quite closely with a large national chain here..in fact they rarely if ever collaborate with anyone outside this national chain but its an eye opener to see how they work.. all property having to be verified re ownership...paperwork ready...only exclusive contracts and very experienced well versed staff in all the legalities that show you around.. if that is not how you are treated then there is something already wrong..

finally they often get property after its been up for sale for a while.. at a price higher than they would set.. people do not use them to start because their fee is 4 %.. and they are reputed also to value the house and refuse to sign contracts unless owners agree to market it at the price they set.. which might well surprise you is generally 15-35 % lower than the owner wants... why because they only make money when they sell..they do not make money advertising homes for sale... they want it gone and off their books.. unlike most private sellers and foreign aimed agencies that have hundreds of properties for sale ...well at least pictures of them..

we have at least two properties that are between 35-45,000 euro cheaper than they are advertised on specialized english selling websites with huge amounts of properties.. in fact as these are both with us via the agency above we know for sure they should not be on other websites without permission 

so being here, being local allows you to see things clearly and get to grips with life.. a building project is full of uncertainties and risks that in my opinion should only be attempted if you are using well reputed agents and associates of high standing with good personal recommendations and several examples of work already undertaken ... a good contractual lawyer working for you to oversee how the schedule of works and payments is written up to suit you with a good level of penalty against the people responsible for your project if times and quality are missed.. 

all of the above waffles around a bit.. but my point is that using common sense should allow anyone to buy or build a property here with no problem and to come out of the whole experience with a home they are happy with and indeed a profitable one.... despite comments made to the contrary if you do things right here with the right people its a very good place to invest .. 

reflect that of all sales here in the area of Abruzzo to the east of the Apennines.. the coastal side 95 % will be to italians.. of the 5 % of the remainder less than half of one per cent is to english speaking foreigners.. so in general most Italains end up with good new builds, safe and legally uncomplicated homes.. because they use common sense and reputable agencies and builders.. 

forget the myth about local bars... and faded vendesi signs .. Italians use well versed professionals to both sell and buy their properties through now a days.. much as the market for rural properties is much more funded with Italian buyers than UK buyers.. Rome makes the coastal side of Abruzzo very attractive for second home owners.. Teramo is just a 75 minute drive for people that love the countryside retreats.. so forget that myth about rural properties being this cheap because of no italian market.. they are cheap because they have been ignored because of other well concealed problems..

the other big market are people from the north..Milan.. yes whole families are moving cashing in on high property prices.. moving to rural Abruzzo ..we have two families now searching for the right place.. you wouldn't believe how many questions they want answered about things before they even come and look...securing against a total wasted visit by asking relevant questions and full details including parts of the paperwork .. they would never visit like so many foreigners do without any guarantee they will see the property they viewed on a website and that is really habitable, is really for sale via that agency and they will only be viewing maybe one or two properties .. not dashing madly around...

so its simple.. the English have a reputation for being easy targets,.. because they behave like that in general..this is fully supported by how they approach their property trips.. and leads to worries because we all assume you are going to be another casualty.. i will give you the benefit of the doubt and think that you fully understand what you want to do and have the funds to progress along with the knowledge of human nature to avoid the pitfalls being laid


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## Bonio

OK, italy, let's say I might have enough knowledge of human nature to progress a project. 

I've been told building costs are around 1100 euro per sq mt. in Abruzzo. Would this sound reasonable to a local ??


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## italy

Bonio said:


> OK, italy, let's say I might have enough knowledge of human nature to progress a project.
> 
> I've been told building costs are around 1100 euro per sq mt. in Abruzzo. Would this sound reasonable to a local ??


sorry got to go out.. 1500 is the real figure..no way 1100 to arrive at anything more than a skeleton... kit houses can be built at around the 800 euro mark.. so maybe an alternative.. price will not include much finishing even at 1500... 

this price is a not including vat and professional services costs.. so add around 35 % to either my price or your quoted price if you believe them to arrive at true cost figures


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## Bonio

I expect to pay for professional services in addition to the building costs....such things as survey, geometra, completion of plans, taxes.

My initial posting was to learn about the tax levies, and I've learned that I ought to budget for 11% and see what happens about gaining residency. Nobody has mentioned discounting for "first house" status for non-residents. 

It is available isn't it?


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## Bonio

Answer to my own question....

The requirements necessary to benefit from the concessions envisaged for the first home are the following:

the house must not possess the characteristics of a luxury habitation as listed by the ministerial decree of 2nd August 1969 (see the Official Journal n. 218 published on 27/08/69);
the real estate must be located in the municipality in which the buyer has his/her residence or in which he/she intends to establish residence within 18 months from the agreement, or in the municipality where the buyer has based or carries out his/her main activity or, if living abroad for work reasons, where the employer is based; for citizens residing abroad (listed in the so called AIRE – Register of Italian citizens residing abroad) it must be the first house possessed in Italy.
For personnel belonging to the Armed Forces and Police Force, the condition of residing in the municipality where the purchased real estate is located is not required in order to benefit from the concession for the first home.

Moreover in the purchase deed the buyer must declare:

not to be the owner, exclusively or in conjunction with the spouse, to property rights, usufruct, use or habitation rights on another house situated in the area of the municipality where the real estate object of the facilitated sale is located;
not to be the owner, not even on the basis of shares or in legal co-ownership, to property rights, use, usufruct, habitation or full ownership rights on another house purchased, even by the spouse, on any part of the national territory by benefiting from the concessions reserved for the purchase of the first house;
to commit to establishing his/her residence within 18 months in the municipality where the real estate object of the sale is situated, unless already residing there.
If, by mistake, in the deed of sale these declarations have been omitted, it is possible to remedy by way of a specific supplementary deed, written following the same legal formalities required for the previous one, in which it is declared that the subjective and objective conditions required to benefit from the fiscal concessions exist.

that looks like an answer.


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## italy

Bonio said:


> Answer to my own question....
> 
> The requirements necessary to benefit from the concessions envisaged for the first home are the following:
> 
> the house must not possess the characteristics of a luxury habitation as listed by the ministerial decree of 2nd August 1969 (see the Official Journal n. 218 published on 27/08/69);
> the real estate must be located in the municipality in which the buyer has his/her residence or in which he/she intends to establish residence within 18 months from the agreement, or in the municipality where the buyer has based or carries out his/her main activity or, if living abroad for work reasons, where the employer is based; for citizens residing abroad (listed in the so called AIRE – Register of Italian citizens residing abroad) it must be the first house possessed in Italy.
> For personnel belonging to the Armed Forces and Police Force, the condition of residing in the municipality where the purchased real estate is located is not required in order to benefit from the concession for the first home.
> 
> Moreover in the purchase deed the buyer must declare:
> 
> not to be the owner, exclusively or in conjunction with the spouse, to property rights, usufruct, use or habitation rights on another house situated in the area of the municipality where the real estate object of the facilitated sale is located;
> not to be the owner, not even on the basis of shares or in legal co-ownership, to property rights, use, usufruct, habitation or full ownership rights on another house purchased, even by the spouse, on any part of the national territory by benefiting from the concessions reserved for the purchase of the first house;
> to commit to establishing his/her residence within 18 months in the municipality where the real estate object of the sale is situated, unless already residing there.
> If, by mistake, in the deed of sale these declarations have been omitted, it is possible to remedy by way of a specific supplementary deed, written following the same legal formalities required for the previous one, in which it is declared that the subjective and objective conditions required to benefit from the fiscal concessions exist.
> 
> that looks like an answer.


its an answer to someone buying a property.. but you are buying a a building plot.. so the benefits will be on being able to pay less VAT.. which will depend on your geometra.. your residential status..ie renting a place in the comune and applying for residency to enable you to take advantage of lower rates on building materials ...however these will pail into insignificance when costs for approval by the comune are given.. get a written estimate from whoever you are doing this with... and contract it so if its above that they make a contribution.. or best of all see a written quote from the comune.. and the next cost of the comune releasing the certificate of habitation allowing you to move into the house.. get that in writing as well..

get written quotations usually left out of costs for connections of all services that you want..from electric to gas and water..even phone..

to be honest your situation now becomes slightly less assuring when you quote a fictitious 1100 .. euro per sq m on a new build.. this is basically non existent here and must be leaving out a huge amount of work one might think would be included.. and leads to doubts about the estimates and advice you are receiving as being little beyond an attempt to work to a budget you maybe have suggested to them and they are quoting to move a sale forwards..


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## Bonio

"quote a fictitious 1100 .. euro per sq m on a new build"

....???

It's not fictitious, it is a figure I was provided with, by a well recommended and fully qualified geometra/engineer.

Why would you suggest it is fictitious? I'm surprised you would make that statement.
But I suppose you mean no harm by it. Words can read strange sometimes.


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## Goingtoitalia

I agree with "Italy" on almost everything that he says. He is very knowledgeable. I really am wary of the English too, I had one "reputable English builder," website with pictures of his work all sub par, but tons of kudos on the quality of his work, even from people on this site. He wanted approx. 110,000 euros to rebuild a 70 sqm house that was to be honest was good condition, this of course would all be done with "builder grade" materials, read cheapest available, "I could upgrade." After my Italian host and friend heard of my tale, he laughed his @#$ off. I had a friend do some work and a reputable "Italian" plumber do the rest. Printed out all materials, a real contract, goods exactly as promised work completed on time. I am sure that there are a few English speaking companies that are reputable, at least I hope that there might be one... I must admit that the native language companies try to help, after looking in Spain and Switzerland, but the language barrier is pretty strong if you only have knowledge of English. Knowing what needs to be done in your native language would be helpful, learn all that you can about the process, then secure an Italian agent. When I looked in Tuscany, the prices between an Italian agent, an Australian agent and a local all varied wildly!!! properties right next to each other of same character or in the same building, could be as different as 50-100,000 euros. Just go in with your eyes wide open.... Can I ask why you want to do a new build yourself????? I hate to say it, but every new build looks exactly the same.... Gone are the days of cheap and good labor, that was the seventies and they aren't coming back....


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## Goingtoitalia

Just getting gas hooked up/or ran from next door "5 meters away" is at least 2,400 euros.....


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## italy

Bonio said:


> "quote a fictitious 1100 .. euro per sq m on a new build"
> 
> ....???
> 
> It's not fictitious, it is a figure I was provided with, by a well recommended and fully qualified geometra/engineer.
> 
> Why would you suggest it is fictitious? I'm surprised you would make that statement.
> But I suppose you mean no harm by it. Words can read strange sometimes.


.. i didn't mean to upset you but you keep talking about a new build.. from ground up to a normal finish.. it is written in the book at 1500 and Italian builders never go below book price.. if its a normal Italian house you are talking about.. it really is pretty unarguable that it will be that price.. its very much a known figure..thats why i used fictitious...as an adjective..

now lets say you are quoted for a 100 m sq home.. price 150,000 euro.. however most houses will have balconies and terraces and covered areas below... so the building size might actually consist of 150 m sq if you include that area and maybe a couple of unfinished areas under the property where they use the cement supports that come up from the ground to shape garages, maybe cantinas.. which might give you a bit more than 150 m sq.. anyway balconies and terraces cantinas cost about a half of the price to build when its being quoted.. so you might end up with a figure that looks a bit lower than euro 1500 per sq m if they include several other elements and this is how prices can look less..

it really is something that becomes a very unknown area.. you do not say if a geologist report has been shown to you, have you checked the actual planning permit and any restrictive elements, have you found out what the area of land is listed at in the comune, ie all comunes list all land not only for use but also for risk of slides and floods and quakes... in certain areas you will have to sink more cement under a house than on top.. driven piles of 20 to thirty meters to support any structure..

it really is a journey that is never as simple as one might have it explained by someone selling.. as to be honest its pretty well impossible to sue and win over any legal struggle here after you sign paperwork.. and i mean even for Italians .. so its no use sort of thinking well if they have lied i can get out of something.. the exact reason that things are so difficult here is that they know they can lie and get away with it.. that you ask questions regarding sort of obvious things like tax payable on here because you have not had a clear answer from an agent or agency suggests you are not being told simple truths already.. which is worrying

anyway moving on.... i saw on the news here today Italy has slipped in ratings about the ability to do business honesty in the world from 67- 69 .. it is the only country that is recognized in the world as a sort of normal economic country in such a low position.. surrounded by other countries which are of the type that are renowned world wide for being under corrupt regimes.. 

finally your questions about how much tax and prima casa.. on building land you will pay no prima casa tax because this tax is worked out on notional rentals and various other bits which add up to either 4 per cent or 11 per cent of the catastal value of the building.. in UK terms this is easy to explain ..the tax is paid on the council band rating value not the sale price.. so an agency can give you this figure on a property quite easily via the land registry value.. however building land you do not do this and if buying from a development company you have to pay VAT or IVA.. even if its being sold privately you pay that sort of tax if it is registered as building or even agricultural land at 20 %.. because you might well be being sold an area of land with the promised fact that in such and such a comune 1 hectare of agricultural land will allow you to build a property of 140 m sq.. this is ofetn the most common way of selling to foreigners.. but should be checked.. as comunes .. they are a law to themselves... are changing these rules in many areas and are now requiring three hectares of continuous joined up land to allow you to build a house of the same 140 m sq.. 

the sizes are strictly limited as 140 m sq is the size of building that the Italian government has decide is the normal size that an owner farmer needs for a home and property built on agricultural land is governed by the concession that the building is for a person that will make part of his living from farming the land..


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## Bonio

Ok thanks both.

I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.

Let me outline the position so I can sweep away some unknowns.
I am buying 2000 sq mt of "building land" in an area where 3 properties exist within 40 metres of the plot. I have made 3 visits to Italy this year and made several visits to the plot. I have already had 2 meetings with the geometra and the engineer. I have seen several projects (some completed and some in the process of construction) run by an Italian project manager I have met several times also, and he came well recommended. He uses Italian trades on his projects.
So at this point I have no reason to believe any scrupulous Brit is involved. I have not got info from the commune regarding land slips etc...... I didn't think of it. But the immediate area is, or at least, looks stable with excellent access and flooding is not an issue because of it's position ..... best described as sitting on a dome. 

Does it sound better or worse ?


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## Bonio

"""Can I ask why you want to do a new build yourself????? I hate to say it, but every new build looks exactly the same...."""

Well the position of the land is the true reason. It's between 2 villages, on the side of a quiet road, and is on a very gentle slope. If a building was to be constructed close-by in the future, it would not impede the views. Having already looked at land and ruins, this plot did it for us.... and that's it I guess.


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## Goingtoitalia

Bonio said:


> """Can I ask why you want to do a new build yourself????? I hate to say it, but every new build looks exactly the same...."""
> 
> Well the position of the land is the true reason. It's between 2 villages, on the side of a quiet road, and is on a very gentle slope. If a building was to be constructed close-by in the future, it would not impede the views. Having already looked at land and ruins, this plot did it for us.... and that's it I guess.


Well, that sounds better. I am glad that you visited the area so many times, that is a good thing! Have you been in winter when it snows? If you have then I think that you have seen the worst of it. I know that my house didn't make a lot of sense to some people, but I fell in love with it, probably the same way that you fell in love with that building plot. I can't fault you on that. I think that there are enough good Italian builders to get the project done, they move amazingly quick and smartly when they need or want to. If you set yourself up with a little extra money, a little extra time and a little extra patience you will be just fine.


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## Bonio

Thank you "G T I" (going to italia) and "italy",

I have no deadline for completion, I have as much time as it takes and patience.
I think "italy" was so keen to assist me, that it seemed he lacked any belief in me, without knowing anything about me.... he was wrong to generalise, but his intentions were good.
I have moved forward today with answers to key questions. All is good at the moment, but I remain alert to the potential pitfalls. Nothing signed yet. 
W T S............. (watch this space)


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## italy

Bonio said:


> Ok thanks both.
> 
> I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.
> 
> Let me outline the position so I can sweep away some unknowns.
> I am buying 2000 sq mt of "building land" in an area where 3 properties exist within 40 metres of the plot. I have made 3 visits to Italy this year and made several visits to the plot. I have already had 2 meetings with the geometra and the engineer. I have seen several projects (some completed and some in the process of construction) run by an Italian project manager I have met several times also, and he came well recommended. He uses Italian trades on his projects.
> So at this point I have no reason to believe any scrupulous Brit is involved. I have not got info from the commune regarding land slips etc...... I didn't think of it. But the immediate area is, or at least, looks stable with excellent access and flooding is not an issue because of it's position ..... best described as sitting on a dome.
> 
> Does it sound better or worse ?


to be honest it sounds fine.. and i know i come across too strongly sometimes.. its a bad habit of mine.. re comunes and zones.. if it already has outline planning permission it pretty well is certain that its not in a non build-able area.. so as far as that goes there is by using common sense ..ie adjacent builds..and your own observation it seems to me you have performed enough checks to satisfy yourself.. 

your description of the visits and the people involved suggest that your approach and the place is ideal in a not so ideal world..i guess thats where a lot of my negative attitude comes in.. hearing of and meeting people that did not take such a careful approach or thinking they were only to find their friendly smiling so called agents had led them down a garden path.. saying that many people have a perfectly happy although not without the strain of a building project in any place time..indeed the struggle when you are working with helpful locals becomes part of the joy of achieving a home that you can be really happy with.. 

so like GTI i too wish you all the best... and hopefully we will hear how well it goes..its nice to hear from people that have done a project that has few problems or complaints.. and it happens.. 

we have restored two properties of our own.. working with local builders and to be honest apart from the fact that you need to keep on top of things and keep the pace moving ( i doubt that is different in any place ) the experiences have been enjoyable although hard work.. and have always come in on time 

i would suggest you get quotes on the costs of the planning consent from the comune.. and the cost of the final release of the declaration that the property is habitable and available to live in.. if you can get residency .. then building materials can be supplied at a much lower rate of VAT(IVA) to be honest they change it but its either 4 % or 10 % as opposed to the 18 or 20 % ..it means that every time you buy building materials the first house piece of paper is shown and the lower rate of VAT is then applied to those items.. 

there are also strict new laws on thermal values regarding insulation and efficiency so on a new build the property should be efficient and save costs.. 
... there are obvious benefits too on a new build of adding in some of the better and newer energy saving systems.. ie in Italy you can get photovolatic systems which feed into the main electric grid and allow you to supply and take back energy.. meaning no costly investment in battery storage or worries over dull days.. two meters measure the difference between what you add and take away and to my mind if you can afford to add in a system like that it would make sense .. a lot more in fact if doing a new build.. it should make it viable to use electric power for all you heat and hot water.. although you would need to do the sums yourself.. 

anyway .. best of luck.. and look forward to hearing about it all if you can spare time when it all gets going...


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## Bonio

It is good to read your positive words. You have shared good advice, borne of your own experiences, so thank you "italy". 
It's not a bad habit to want to help people.....just type a little lighter though 

I'll be back when I need more from you

Cheers


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