# News about Spain May 2012



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

As people have said that in the UK Spanish news is sometimes not reported and / or it's easily ignored here's some news, mainly in video, about some recent events. I'll see if I can do this periodically.

15M movement 1 year anniversary
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=8314

Migration - (forget what he says about la bella vida - that's not Spanish!!) This sounds like we on the forum have written it. We could claim plagiarism I reckon!!
BBC News - Expats turning away from Spanish dream

Real Madrid Mallorca





Article about Bruce's tour
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, Olympic Stadium, Seville, review - Telegraph


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes but it is the beeeb


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bond markets attack Spain as contagion fears spread - Business News - Business - Evening Standard 

Jo xx


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

La bella vida, Italian.

I am staying here, 27ºc, €2.00 a pint, what more could an old git want?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As people have said that in the UK Spanish news is sometimes not reported and / or it's easily ignored here's some news, mainly in video, about some recent events. I'll see if I can do this periodically.
> 
> 15M movement 1 year anniversary
> http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=8314
> ...


What they don't tell you in the article is that he made a speech on the suffering by the working classes during this economic crisis in both Spain & the U.S. which was enthusiastically received. A friend on another forum went & said that the spanish really appreciated it.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

More speculation on Spain leaving the Euro

Spain?s ?technically impossible? euro exit | Iberosphere | Spain News and Portugal News - Information and Analysis

Some interesting excerpts...


> The last year has seen a rapidly spreading understanding in this country that things are not just very bad, but getting worse, and will continue to do so for a great many years to come. It’s hard to keep up with the figures on home repossessions, or the number of households with no income. Five years ago the middle classes were talking about how much the value of their home had risen; now it’s how a close friend or relative has lost their job and has no chance of ever finding another, or has a grown-up son or daughter with no prospect of finding work and leaving home.





> Spain has to pay back €149 billion to bond holders in 2012. To do that it will issue a total of €186 billion worth of bonds. Recent bond auctions have, to say the least, been disappointing, and borrowing rates just keep going up. In 2011, interest payments totaled €28.8 billion — up from €22.1 billion the year before, thanks to rising bond yields.
> In short, to use the home economics analogies that this government is so fond of: Spain has borrowed too much money on short repayment terms, but can’t earn enough to pay it back, and so its debts just keep mounting, and so do the costs of borrowing. It’s like being in hock to a neighbourhood loan shark.


after a year of exiting from the euro...


> Once the internal domestic situation had stabilized, something that might take up to a year, and which would be shown once a stable exchange rate had been established between the new peseta and the euro, restrictions on movement of capital would be lifted.
> At that point, the Spanish economy would take off like a rocket: the weaker new peseta would make Spanish exports cheaper and more competitive and would help the economy start growing again, creating jobs. Demand for consumer goods and services at affordable prices would rise. Companies outside Spain might be attracted by the cheaper labour and real estate, encouraging them to move manufacturing plants here. Tourism would also get a boost: Spain would suddenly become much cheaper for foreigners.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bank runs in Spain!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Leaving the euro isn't the easy option some might think. 

Confidence in the new currency would be extremely low, devaluation would have a deleterious effect on people's living standards and the cost of borrowing would be astronomical.

If as now seems likely Greece is forced to either enter a second-tier eurozone or leave altogether the country will be in meltdown.

It's easy to talk of this option but when the implications are uncovered.....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

> Once the internal domestic situation had stabilized, something that might take up to a year, and which would be shown once a stable exchange rate had been established between the new peseta and the euro, restrictions on movement of capital would be lifted.
> At that point, the Spanish economy would take off like a rocket: the weaker new peseta would make Spanish exports cheaper and more competitive and would help the economy start growing again, creating jobs. Demand for consumer goods and services at affordable prices would rise. Companies outside Spain might be attracted by the cheaper labour and real estate, encouraging them to move manufacturing plants here. Tourism would also get a boost: Spain would suddenly become much cheaper for foreigners.


I simply dont get this thinking and I dont understand how this would work; 

So if Spain has a devalued currency and everyone supposedly benefits, exports are cheaper, so more work, tourists benefit by cheaper holidays blah, blah...........Ok, my prime example would be, what about Spain having to buy in oil! How much more will that cost them? Will they be able to afford to run cars?? planes, businesses?? Cos without oil/petrol/fuel - spain will be nothing! and what about other exports?? How will the country afford to buy in anything and how will the people be able to afford anything thats not Spanish??? Surely it would become a third world country???

jo xxxx


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Seems to be a whole lot more news on Spain in just the last week or so. The is the usual system of follow the news for the loan shark type gambling going on in the square mile more and more these days!
Who is making the real news I wonder!

I read an Irish and Greek town have followed the example of a Spanish town who started excepting pesetas again!
Bartering is back in fashion also it would seem. So does this mean an underlying yearning for old currencies to come back and with it more independence, or just dig out the old change from behind the couch and nothing more!

It's going to be very hard for Greece whatever happens, but wouldn't it be better for them in the long run rather than them keep getting bailout cash they will never be able to repay, or if they are forced to will leave them floundering in debt maybe for ever and a day!
Would it work to let them have in theory their own currency back and then pump money in to help keep the currency from falling back too much! At least that would be backing something that might work rather than dumping cash into a black whole of never ending interest payments.
Greece seem a bit of an event horizon regarding bailouts IMHO!

Some more news on Spain;
Spain denies need for external bank aid - Yahoo! News UK

Comparing UK and Spain on the happy index!
I've seen it posted on here before but thought I would compare over the last few years. It makes for interesting reading.
It seems Spain as far as the end of last year anyway is still a happy place for people compared Europe. 2009, 2010 and 2011 Spain comes 2nd only to France but more still want to go to Spain than France, the UK........ Not so good LOL Bottom or 2nd from bottom year on year!
Maybe that's why a lot of the news flows off our backs here in the UK along with the copious amounts of rain
uSwitch Quality of Life Index: UK is the worst place to live in Europe | uSwitch.com News


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I simply dont get this thinking and I dont understand how this would work;
> 
> So if Spain has a devalued currency and everyone supposedly benefits, exports are cheaper, so more work, tourists benefit by cheaper holidays blah, blah...........Ok, my prime example would be, what about Spain having to buy in oil! How much more will that cost them? Will they be able to afford to run cars?? planes, businesses?? Cos without oil/petrol/fuel - spain will be nothing! and what about other exports?? How will the country afford to buy in anything and how will the people be able to afford anything thats not Spanish??? Surely it would become a third world country???
> 
> jo xxxx


Well, I think it's a good point Jo. Let's see who comes on and shoots your argument down!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Muddy said:


> Comparing UK and Spain on the happy index!
> I've seen it posted on here before but thought I would compare over the last few years. It makes for interesting reading.
> It seems Spain as far as the end of last year anyway is still a happy place for people compared Europe. 2009, 2010 and 2011 Spain comes 2nd only to France but more still want to go to Spain than France, the UK........ Not so good LOL Bottom or 2nd from bottom year on year!
> Maybe that's why a lot of the news flows off our backs here in the UK along with the copious amounts of rain
> uSwitch Quality of Life Index: UK is the worst place to live in Europe | uSwitch.com News


I think you've got something there, Muddy


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jojo said:


> I simply dont get this thinking and I dont understand how this would work;
> 
> So if Spain has a devalued currency and everyone supposedly benefits, exports are cheaper, so more work, tourists benefit by cheaper holidays blah, blah...........Ok, my prime example would be, what about Spain having to buy in oil! How much more will that cost them? Will they be able to afford to run cars?? planes, businesses?? Cos without oil/petrol/fuel - spain will be nothing! and what about other exports?? How will the country afford to buy in anything and how will the people be able to afford anything thats not Spanish??? Surely it would become a third world country???
> 
> jo xxxx


The U.K. de valued when Harold Wilson was P.M. If I remember correctly the differences were minimal. Regarding crude oil, at the moment it is overpriced, Greece and possibly Spain leaving the Euro, will de-stable the world economy, this will cause oil prices to fall drastically, and with a reduction of internal purchase tax on petroleum products, your 4 star could become cheaper.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The news today is about the strikes and protests held in almost all regions yesterday against education cuts, a subject that is close to my heart. The strike was right through the education system from infantil to university. They are protesting against cuts such as not having a supply teacher until 14 days of sick leave has been taken, and measures like teachers teaching more hours and having more syudents in the class room could result in between 2,700 and 4, 800 teachers being unemployed.
Teachers and students walk out of classes to protest school cutbacks | In English | EL PAÍS


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The news today is about the strikes and protests held in almost all regions yesterday against education cuts, a subject that is close to my heart. The strike was right through the education system from infantil to university. They are protesting against cuts such as not having a supply teacher until 14 days of sick leave has been taken, and measures like teachers teaching more hours and having more syudents in the class room could result in between 2,700 and 4, 800 teachers being unemployed.
> Teachers and students walk out of classes to protest school cutbacks | In English | EL PAÍS


some of my students have been asking why the schools are striking ((bearing in mind my students are mostly retired/early retired)- they think it's dreadful that they DO strike -& in our area 2 days a week for the whole of May!!!


after I explain it they understand - the thing they consider to be the biggest problem is the supply teacher situation - which in fact has already been the case around here this year - if a teacher has been out for less than 2 weeks there has been no cover, so my girls & of course all the other students have at some times had no teaching in some subjects for up to 2 weeks at a time this past school year

I think it will be a miracle if there is a high pass rate at the end of the year


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The news today is about the strikes and protests held in almost all regions yesterday against education cuts, a subject that is close to my heart. The strike was right through the education system from infantil to university. They are protesting against cuts such as not having a supply teacher until 14 days of sick leave has been taken, and measures like teachers teaching more hours and having more syudents in the class room could result in between 2,700 and 4, 800 teachers being unemployed.
> Teachers and students walk out of classes to protest school cutbacks | In English | EL PAÍS


Teachers around here were on strike last Wed & Thurs, this Tues & Wed and next Wed & Thurs - some of those days they go up to Valencia and others down to Alicante.

Whilst I agree with their issues and can not, for the life of me, understand how the cuts can possibly benefit any one, I am really shocked at how these strikes are affecting our children!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Teachers around here were on strike last Wed & Thurs, this Tues & Wed and next Wed & Thurs - some of those days they go up to Valencia and others down to Alicante.
> 
> Whilst I agree with their issues and can not, for the life of me, understand how the cuts can possibly benefit any one, I am really shocked at how these strikes are affecting our children!


I know, I know ,I know snikpoh. My own daughter was severely effected at the beginning of the year, her last year at school, and an extremely tough year.
The strikes don't really benefit anyone and they do damage as well. The cuts certainly don't benefit anyone (the EU possibly??), at least in Spain and do a lot of long term damage. The teachers, and many other workers in other sectors, are damned if they do and damned if they don't in the present situation. The only thing they can do to demonstrate their non conformity with what is happening is to go on strike, but that does lead to burn out on part of the students, parents and the teachers themselves who have already had one pay cut and of course lose money for every day that they go on strike.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> some of my students have been asking why the schools are striking ((bearing in mind my students are mostly retired/early retired)- they think it's dreadful that they DO strike -& in our area 2 days a week for the whole of May!!!
> 
> 
> after I explain it they understand - the thing they consider to be the biggest problem is the supply teacher situation - which in fact has already been the case around here this year - if a teacher has been out for less than 2 weeks there has been no cover, so my girls & of course all the other students have at some times had no teaching in some subjects for up to 2 weeks at a time this past school year
> ...


Yes, the supply teacher thing has been operating at least this year, and I'm not sure if the year before as well. A similar, if not the same system was also operating when there was a pregnant teacher. There was no teacher lined up to take over - ¡¡Que va!!

As for the high pass rate, I wouldn't be too sure xabiachica. They are supposed to get through certain things on the syllabus, but the teachers do set their own exams, don't they?


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*U switch*

Haven't seen muddy's posting until now:

_Comparing UK and Spain on the happy index!
I've seen it posted on here before but thought I would compare over the last few years. It makes for interesting reading.
It seems Spain as far as the end of last year anyway is still a happy place for people compared Europe. 2009, 2010 and 2011 Spain comes 2nd only to France but more still want to go to Spain than France, the UK........ Not so good LOL Bottom or 2nd from bottom year on year!
Maybe that's why a lot of the news flows off our backs here in the UK along with the copious amounts of rain
uSwitch Quality of L_ife Index: UK is the worst place to live in Europe | uSwitch.com News

but it's an interesting slant on the Proverb 'Lies, damn lies and statistics'. The research was undertaken by Opinium research who asked about 2,000 people their opinion. Those people are members of the Opinium panel and are paid the more surveys they do. A representive sample - i don't think so!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, the supply teacher thing has been operating at least this year, and I'm not sure if the year before as well. A similar, if not the same system was also operating when there was a pregnant teacher. There was no teacher lined up to take over - ¡¡Que va!!
> 
> As for the high pass rate, I wouldn't be too sure xabiachica. They are supposed to get through certain things on the syllabus, but the teachers do set their own exams, don't they?


yes I believe they do set their own exams - but what about the last year of obligatory 4º ESO??

surely there must be some national conformity requirement??

that's the one I'm worried about, with dd1


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes I believe they do set their own exams - but what about the last year of obligatory 4º ESO??
> 
> surely there must be some national conformity requirement??
> 
> that's the one I'm worried about, with dd1


Xabiachica, if they don't have national exams for university entrance, they're not going to have it for 4º ESO... They do, supposedly, have a core curriculum and the teacher's programme is submitted (and supposedly inspected) at the beginning of each year, but what I don't have clear is who inspects that that has been covered.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Xabiachica, if they don't have national exams for university entrance, they're not going to have it for 4º ESO... They do, supposedly, have a core curriculum and the teacher's programme is submitted (and supposedly inspected) at the beginning of each year, but what I don't have clear is who inspects that that has been covered.


I suppose I shouldn't be pleased/relieved ........but I have to admit that I am 

selfish I know, but..........


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Xabiachica, if they don't have national exams for university entrance, they're not going to have it for 4º ESO... They do, supposedly, have a core curriculum and the teacher's programme is submitted (and supposedly inspected) at the beginning of each year, but what I don't have clear is who inspects that that has been covered.


The Paau exams are not national as you say because education is managed at a regional level, therefore they are regional. The teachers don't set them, nor do they examine the pupils and all the pupils of the region do the same exams on the same days.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

anles said:


> The Paau exams are not national as you say because education is managed at a regional level, therefore they are regional. The teachers don't set them, nor do they examine the pupils and all the pupils of the region do the same exams on the same days.


Just to try and clarify, I didn't say or mean to imply that teachers set the PAU (Prueba de Acceso a la Universidad). They do however set the Bachillerato exams, and the 4º de la ESO exams. They are not national exams as you have stated - they are regional, because the educational authorities are regional. The only thing you _may_ imply from my post is a _desire_ that things could be more nationalised and therefore, IMO, improved.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Video about Bankia - bailout or not?
Watch Video Spain's Bankia woes heat up World News at blinkx

Please see the articles in this thread too
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/113224-macro-economics.html

And this one, which has someone with the "slogan" 
"Spain's too big to fail, too big to bail"
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2012/05/25/pkg-reuben-spain-too-big-to-fail.cnn
Basically saying that if Greece goes there won't be too much butterfly effect, but if Spain goes it's going to hurt the others too much


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Video about Bankia - bailout or not?
> Watch Video Spain's Bankia woes heat up World News at blinkx
> 
> Please see the articles in this thread too
> ...


Interesting that CNN say "too big to fail, too big to bail". They then present figures like the UK being exposed to $13 billion spanish bank debt. Compare that with Bankia losing $24 billion in less than two years - bearing in mind that is just the fourth biggest spanish bank.

I thought the video fully justifies not throwing good money after bad.

And just because Spain defaults does not mean all loans are lost and one day even those decaying holiday blocks will have some value 

But interesting links Pesky


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Interesting that CNN say "too big to fail, too big to bail". They then present figures like the UK being exposed to $13 billion spanish bank debt. Compare that with Bankia losing $24 billion in less than two years - bearing in mind that is just the fourth biggest spanish bank.
> 
> I thought the video fully justifies not throwing good money after bad.
> 
> ...


I read that '13billion ' earlier last week & thought it was funny as I'd previously seen far higher figures. When I had a root around the 13billion is the direct exposure but the general consenus is that the total exposure is in excess of 200 billion because many other eu states that have huge direct exposure to Spain used UK bank loans.  
They aren't stupid are they ? So if the Germans & French have direct exposure to Spain of around 120 billion, that they've borrowed off the UK banks then if Spain ( or whatever other country you wish to put in ) doesn't pay them they won't pay the uk . 
So the Recipient country has used/ had use of the actual money, & can't pay; the 
lenders who borrowed it from the UK probably won't pay either. So it will be the UK banks , who supplied the money, who are knocked for the lot. That's why the UK government are so concerned about countries leaving or a break-up.

What puzzles me is why Italy, which is supposed to be in a worse state , has been left alone for the moment ?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> What puzzles me is why Italy, which is supposed to be in a worse state , has been left alone for the moment ?



I think its bond yields are still within the 'safety zone'...


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> I read that '13billion ' earlier last week & thought it was funny as I'd previously seen far higher figures.


The problem with the figures is first the borrowers are governments, regions, and companies. But if Spain defaults that doesn't mean for example that Santander, an international bank with very little interest in Spain, will not pay its debts. 

Further many loans are secured so it will not be a 100% loss.

The interbank loans do add an extra layer of smoke but the UK does sit in a fairly unique position. We can devalue the pound and we think nothing of issuing 75 billion of quantitative easing. 

Only last quarter the UK increased its non Euro exports by 12%. The Euro exports remained flat. So the UK is positioning itself. Only some politicians thought the demise of the Euro was impossible. Sensible investors are not so gullible. You can see that they understand by the limiting impact the exit of Greece is having on the markets. The markets fear uncertainty but now the options are being planned for they remain watchful but have not collapsed.

But

The alternative is to throw more good money after bad. What is the value in delaying the inevitable?

And there will still be a Spain after they go bust. UK companies are as well placed as anyone (except possibly the Chinese ) to take full advantage.

I see no effort at the controlling level in Spain to get their act together. Mary proposed today a solution but admitted it would not happen. I think best for the UK and Spain to let them go bust.

The sooner the end comes the sooner the rebuild starts and my step daughter and niece can have the chance of a life in Spain


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## daveupsticks (Oct 13, 2011)

jojo said:


> I simply dont get this thinking and I dont understand how this would work;
> 
> So if Spain has a devalued currency and everyone supposedly benefits, exports are cheaper, so more work, tourists benefit by cheaper holidays blah, blah...........Ok, my prime example would be, what about Spain having to buy in oil! How much more will that cost them? Will they be able to afford to run cars?? planes, businesses?? Cos without oil/petrol/fuel - spain will be nothing! and what about other exports?? How will the country afford to buy in anything and how will the people be able to afford anything thats not Spanish??? Surely it would become a third world country???
> 
> jo xxxx


I might be completely wrong but as I see it Spain has for years relied on tourism which has been paying for most of the bills I think that there is one car plant which is Seat please put me right if there are more, and what seems to be a abundance of fruit, cooking oil and wine which the UK and other country's cant get enough of and Spain was doing very nicely thank you under the pastas, so you may ask why didn't the Spanish government invest in its car production and farming techniques so as to safeguard the work place for when Spain joined the Euro,for there must have been some one who realised that making it more expensive to holiday in Spain would have a big impact on the Spanish revenue, as it has been the case in Greece, Portugal and Ireland but to name a few .


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

daveupsticks said:


> I might be completely wrong but as I see it Spain has for years relied on tourism which has been paying for most of the bills I think that there is one car plant which is Seat please put me right if there are more, and what seems to be a abundance of fruit, cooking oil and wine which the UK and other country's cant get enough of and Spain was doing very nicely thank you under the pastas, so you may ask why didn't the Spanish government invest in its car production and farming techniques so as to safeguard the work place for when Spain joined the Euro,for there must have been some one who realised that making it more expensive to holiday in Spain would have a big impact on the Spanish revenue, as it has been the case in Greece, Portugal and Ireland but to name a few .



By 'pastas' I take it you mean 'pesetas'?

Yes, tourism has brought in much revenue over the past decades. But bear in mind that Spain isn't a developing banana republic, it's the EU's fourth largest economy.
Spain has large global companies such as Repsol and Telefonica as well as being a world leader in some areas of green technology.

Relying on agricultural exports won't per se boost Spain's economy. In fact that could be seen as an area of weakness as other competitors in this sector such as Greece and Italy can force down market prices.

The root of Spain's problems lie in the availability of cheap credit which flooded the market under the Single European Act which actually predated Spain's adoption of the euro. This led directly to the disastrous property bubble, the bursting of which led to corporate and personal debt and massive unemployment.

As for vehicle manufacturing....Ford and other companies have subsidiaries in Spain, don't they? I'm not sure but I believe that EU rules forbid direct Government subsidies or support of any kind to domestic industry.

I'm not sure what impact adopting the euro has had on Irish, Portuguese or Greek tourism sectors. After all, for several years after its adoption, it's value against the £ was considerably less than now.


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## middleton (Nov 13, 2011)

*Euro for Greece and Spain*

I have been in Greece for three months and will arrive in Spain on December 18. Every thing possible is being done to insure Greece stays with the Euro. I believe Spain would be even less likely to abandon the Euro.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> By 'pastas' I take it you mean 'pesetas'?
> 
> Yes, tourism has brought in much revenue over the past decades. But bear in mind that Spain isn't a developing banana republic, it's the EU's fourth largest economy.


A distant fifth, way behind Italy... (Germany, France, UK, Italy -- then Spain)


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