# Pinoso..... :) x



## mal45

*Life in Pinoso*

Hi everyone,
me and my husband are retiring in a years time, have been out to Pinoso three times to have a look and find out about the area. wanting to meet English people out there. would love to hear from any expats who currently live there?? any advice would be great, good places to live etc
we are out again in May!!


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## jofred

mal45 said:


> Hi everyone,
> me and my husband are retiring in a years time, have been out to Pinoso three times to have a look and find out about the area. wanting to meet English people out there. would love to hear from any expats who currently live there?? any advice would be great, good places to live etc
> we are out again in May!!


Hiya 

My husband and I have lived here fro the last fifteen years..I would be happy to meet with you when you are next out and help with all your questions I also know a lot of people who have relocated to Pinoso and I can arrange for oyu to meet with them also.

Let me know if I can be of any futher help in the meantime

Kind Regards

Joan


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## Doug Black

I folks, just scouring the forum for anyone who lives in or around Pinoso. I'm moving there this year and am trying to put together a list of tradespeople for some work I need to have done out there before I move.

Any help appreciated.


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## zippy-watkins

Hello.... have been doing the customary looking at what's being posted, and wanted to get in touch with some people - but need to get myself out and about on here before I can do that....

So, my partner and myself are currently living in Kent and looking to escape to Spain within the next twelve months - subject to his house selling.

With his parents already in the Alicante-region, my partner knows the area very well and has spent much time there already.

Now, we're both looking at the move away to pastures green and have decided that the Pinoso-region is perfect for us. 

We'd be very keen to get in touch with anyone in that region who will be able to keep us on the straight and narrow in what seems like a fairly complicated process!

We're back out to Alicante in early May and would love to share a coffee with anyone near Pinoso. lane:

Also considering Sax, Canada de lar Lena, Monovar and La Zarza - but our options remain open!  

Please get in touch! :clap2:

Karen. x:cheer2:


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## xabiaxica

zippy-watkins said:


> Hello.... have been doing the customary looking at what's being posted, and wanted to get in touch with some people - but need to get myself out and about on here before I can do that....
> 
> So, my partner and myself are currently living in Kent and looking to escape to Spain within the next twelve months - subject to his house selling.
> 
> With his parents already in the Alicante-region, my partner knows the area very well and has spent much time there already.
> 
> Now, we're both looking at the move away to pastures green and have decided that the Pinoso-region is perfect for us.
> 
> We'd be very keen to get in touch with anyone in that region who will be able to keep us on the straight and narrow in what seems like a fairly complicated process!
> 
> We're back out to Alicante in early May and would love to share a coffee with anyone near Pinoso. lane:
> 
> Also considering Sax, Canada de lar Lena, Monovar and La Zarza - but our options remain open!
> 
> Please get in touch! :clap2:
> 
> Karen. x:cheer2:


:welcome:

it really isn't that complicated - just a bit of paper chasing

will you be retiring or needing to work?


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## zippy-watkins

Hello!!!

We are fairly young - well young ish... mid 40's.... so we do have plenty of work left in us. We're looking at maybe running a guesthouse... but happy to turn our hand to whatever. What we need to do is get out of 9-5 sedentary desk jobs with commuting either end. 

And we've already done a lot of research so know our way around the legalities reasonably well... but its the issue I guess of us being here... and the property over there! 

Karen. x


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## xabiaxica

zippy-watkins said:


> Hello!!!
> 
> We are fairly young - well young ish... mid 40's.... so we do have plenty of work left in us.* We're looking at maybe running a guesthouse*... but happy to turn our hand to whatever. What we need to do is get out of 9-5 sedentary desk jobs with commuting either end.
> 
> And we've already done a lot of research so know our way around the legalities reasonably well... but its the issue I guess of us being here... and the property over there!
> 
> Karen. x


_that's _the complicated bit then!!


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## zippy-watkins

We're not going in with rose tinted glasses... and again have done our homework! Do you have personal experience of this then?


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## xabiaxica

zippy-watkins said:


> We're not going in with rose tinted glasses... and again have done our homework! Do you have personal experience of this then?


not personally

I do have friends who run a casa rural though - & it was an absolute nightmare getting all the licences - & seriously costly!

& I know of a few others who just gave up - the costs & the hassle just weren't worth the gamble


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## zippy-watkins

Ohhh.. ok... thanks. Food for thought.


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## Pesky Wesky

zippy-watkins said:


> Hello!!!
> 
> We are fairly young - well young ish... mid 40's..*.. so we do have plenty of work left in us. We're looking at maybe running a guesthouse... but happy to turn our hand to whatever*. What we need to do is get out of 9-5 sedentary desk jobs with commuting either end.
> 
> And we've already done a lot of research so know our way around the legalities reasonably well... but its the issue I guess of us being here... and the property over there!
> 
> Karen. x


If you've done plenty of research you'll know that unemployment is much worse than in the UK so I won't bother spouting facts and figures at you.
Unfortunately, as I presume you already know too (maybe not??) if you don't find work you won't have healthcare covered and you won't be able to register on the foreign resident's list, so you really need to scout round and see what work is available to you, so it's good that you can do that whilst visiting your mum!
As xabiachica says, there's a lot of info on the FAQ's about schools, paperwork, employment/ unemployment...
Here's a web that has job ads
Jobs - The Local
Alternatively Gibraltar seems to have a lot of openings
Finding work in Gibraltar | Jobs in Gibraltar | Working in Gibraltar


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## Pesky Wesky

:bump:
The OP thought that s/he was "shot down in flames" by xabia and myself.

Anybody got any more advice for him/ her?
May be someone who has run a B&B


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## zippy-watkins

Like I said in the other thread, I didn't actually make any reference to individuals. I've sent some pm's which is what I set out to do. Please feel free to delete this thread - and me - if


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## xabiaxica

I guess it must have been me who 'shot you down in flames'??

you asked for info & we told you the truth - I really do know people who have given up because it was too much hassle - & one couple who is making it work, though it did cost them an absolute fortune getting all the licences etc & they aren't in a break-even situation yet, several years down the line


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## zippy-watkins

Ok having read back - perhaps I was a bit unnecessarily scratchy - particularly having read through some of the 'here we go again' threads by those who have been on the forum for some time. 

It takes quite a bit of courage to post on a new forum, and what do you put without coming across as not knowing anything?!!! 

I'm now in touch with someone in that area who has already given me so much positive advice. 

I'll continue to search and read the threads and may even be brave enough to comment again.....!!


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## jojo

zippy-watkins said:


> Ok having read back - perhaps I was a bit unnecessarily scratchy - particularly having read through some of the 'here we go again' threads by those who have been on the forum for some time.
> 
> It takes quite a bit of courage to post on a new forum, and what do you put without coming across as not knowing anything?!!!
> 
> I'm now in touch with someone in that area who has already given me so much positive advice.
> 
> I'll continue to search and read the threads and may even be brave enough to comment again.....!!



Positive is good and none of us on here mind positive as long as its legal and above board lol!!!! 

The reality is that on the whole its hard, very hard. Whatever you do and however good the info is that you are now getting, you have also been told how the reality for most will be, so you can prepare for that!!!!

It would also be nice if you did post again and let us know some good news!!!

Jo xxxx


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## zippy-watkins

We're under no illusions that it will be easy. But who wants an easy life anyway. If it fails, we will still have my house in the UK to return to. 

I've had enough negative advice to sink a ship and can also fill my boots by searching for it on here as well! 

Irrespective of what people say to us, we shall still be going ahead with our plans.

And who knows, we may even succeed!!! 

x


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## xabiaxica

zippy-watkins said:


> We're under no illusions that it will be easy. But who wants an easy life anyway. If it fails, we will still have my house in the UK to return to.
> 
> I've had enough negative advice to drink a ship and can also fill my boots by searching for it on here as well!
> 
> Irrespective of what people say to us, we shall still be going ahead with our plans.
> 
> And who knows, we may even succeed!!!
> 
> x


I really hope you do succeed -someone has to 

& some do of course

let us know how you get on


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## nwill67

xabiachica said:


> I really hope you do succeed -someone has to
> 
> & some do of course
> 
> let us know how you get on


Good luck


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## Pesky Wesky

zippy-watkins said:


> We're under no illusions that it will be easy. But who wants an easy life anyway. If it fails, we will still have my house in the UK to return to.
> 
> I've had enough negative advice to sink a ship and can also fill my boots by searching for it on here as well!
> 
> *Irrespective of what people say to us, we shall still be going ahead with our plans.
> *
> And who knows, we may even succeed!!!
> 
> x


As I said before, here or on the Murcia thread, I wish you luck with your business venture, but I do wonder about things like what I've put in bold in your post. If you're not going to take any notice of what people say, why did ask for our opinions?


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## zippy-watkins

I was going to reply to the last - but frankly cba. 

I'll stick to pm's.


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## jojo

zippy-watkins said:


> I was going to reply to the last - but frankly cba.
> 
> I'll stick to pm's.



Huh! Spoilsport lol!!! Seriously tho, it really is nice to hear some positive news - as you can tell we dont see much. So dba !!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## zippy-watkins

Thanks Jo. I'll keep you posted. We already have a friend on stand by to ship our belongings down - at well under £1k so you'll see that we are doing our homework!!!!!

Positivity all the way. 

x


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## thrax

If you are serious about running a B&B or similar, the best th9ing would be to buy one that is already functioning. Still a bit of a nightmare transferring licences and so on. Also, be prepared for a bit of a hunt as any successful business don't tend to sell, it's those that are struggling that are mostly on the market. But not always. I do know of one being run by a lady who is desperate to sell - it is fully booked for the year and also for some of next year, but she used to run it with her husband who sadly died and she can't do it on her own. So there are some out there with success and maybe sad stories behind them. But on the whole you will find it quite a bit easier to take on something already running... just be very careful!! I should add that the business I am referring to is nowhere near where you want to be, just using it as an example...


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## zippy-watkins

Hello Thrax. Thanks for your advice - which is most helpful. We have several ideas - and the B&B is just a sideline at the moment. 

We are aware of the issues with licences etc so dont for one minute expect a smooth ride


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## missbusybusy

Zippy-Watkins, keep pressing on it can be a hard slog as we have found out 53 weeks to date and still on going, (due to a few unforeseen issues ) but their seems to be a bright light at the end of our tunnel 
all the best
Carol


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## wendyevo

*moving to Pinoso*

Me and my husband are almost re-locating to Pinoso. We have my mum living in Monovar and we are looking to buy an apartment in Pinoso to be closer to her and help out more. This is a big step for us and as well as buying a property over there we will be leaving our UK rented home for a new life. What do you need to tell us from your experience of moving and living in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

wendyevo said:


> Me and my husband are almost re-locating to Pinoso. We have my mum living in Monovar and we are looking to buy an apartment in Pinoso to be closer to her and help out more. This is a big step for us and as well as buying a property over there we will be leaving our UK rented home for a new life. What do you need to tell us from your experience of moving and living in Spain?


:welcome:

have a read of the many many threads here - it's all about moving to Spain!

for nitty-griitty-red-tape-legal-stuff, have a look at http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html


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## 90199

Rent an apartment first, apartments are noisy, the communal areas are dirty, and the communities can never agree.

I bought an apartment as a investment, I would never buy another.


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## 746786

Hi Zippy, we've just joined he forum with a view to moving out to Pinoso too. I just read the thread you started and hope that you managed to get some answers and help. Maybe we'll cross paths on the forum if you're still here. All the best and good luck.


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## 746786

Hi Wendy, we just joined the forum tonight and are moving to Pinoso in the next 18 months. Hope regular forum users here can help you with your questions. We'd be interested in any info on contacts and accommodation in that area too. If we can share any info in return we will do so of course. All the best.


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## 746786

Hi, just came across this thread on Pinoso. Can I assume there aren't that many Pinoso people on this forum?


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## zippy-watkins

Hi Frank

I'm still here! I don't tend to post on the site nowadays as found it too negative! We are moving out in May and things are all going well! We bought a place inLa Romana in the end but know Pinoso well. Happy to help you if you need any advice - but also happy just to have a natter too!

Karen.


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## 746786

Thanks Karen! I'm so glad you kept on going. I read the thread and thought WTF! How discouraging! I've used online forums (fora?) before and there can sometimes be an odd culture that forms in them. Combined with the unforgiving nature of online communication, it can make for uncomfortable territory at times.

Thank you for offering help/ advice. I'm currently looking for anyone out there who might help with small building work, ground work etc. But mainly just a humane point of contact for starters! 

I also need to locate the local water company in Pinoso to contact them regarding the water meter on my plot of land out there. So far I've been out there a few times and bought 3 acres of land. Need to go out in a few months and make sure the land is still there! But also start to make some preparations so that we can do some basics on the land before moving our mobile home to the area as a first step. It feels a bit daunting so far and I have met some folks out there who only seem interested in talking to you if you are willing to throw cash at them. Hoping that we can come up with some positive, friendly experiences between now and the time we land....


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## zippy-watkins

Will pm you.


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## 746786

Ok


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## 746786

Hi Karen, I replied to your PM but don't see my email in my sent items folder, so I don't know if that means it didn't send? Are there restrictions on newbie's sending PMs until there are a minimum amount of posts or something?


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## Pesky Wesky

If you PM then other people on the forum don't get to benefit from your experience, which is a shame.
If you open a new thread on whatever, you can help others out too.


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## NickH01

Hi Zippy-watkins. Pleased you got sorted, we are almost there with a house just outside of Elche. Hope all goes well with your move.


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## 746786

Hi Nick. How are you finding life in that area? In terms of the economy, services, cost of living etc? I haven't been out there for about 18 months and just wondering how bad things are being hit by the impact of Spain's unemployment etc.


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## Pesky Wesky

Frank B said:


> Hi Nick. How are you finding life in that area? In terms of the economy, services, cost of living etc? I haven't been out there for about 18 months and just wondering how bad things are being hit by the impact of Spain's unemployment etc.


There are quite a few comments on the forum about the impact of unemployment, or not, and Spain's economy. Unfortunately they are very often labelled as merely being negative, not informative. Some are of the opinion that people already living in Spain are on a mission to prevent others from coming! What the motive for that could be is hard to fathom. However, you could try 


looking at El País in English
Search the BBC news for items about Spain
Search Huffington Post/ Time/ The Economist. They all have short, medium and long articles about these themes
Search the forum for unemployment/ work/ jobs/ economy/ economic etc
There is news of Spain starting the path towards economic recovery. When reading about this at least two things should be taken into account. 

1. There will be elections next May.
2. Where the recovery is starting from ie what the state of the economy is right now, what the rate of employment is right now and how long it will take for "recovery" to happen


Have fun digging and delving!


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## NickH01

Hi Frank-B. 
We are not out there full time just yet. We have spent a week every month out there for about the last 10 months and to be honest not noticed much shift either way.


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## amespana

Your opinion Hepa, we live in an apartment,our community areas are beautifully kept and we have great neighbours.The majority of people in Spain live in apartments, I doubt they are all dirty and noisy as you suggest.Generalisations like that don't help anybody.


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## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> There are quite a few comments on the forum about the impact of unemployment, or not, and Spain's economy. Unfortunately they are very often labelled as merely being negative, not informative. Some are of the opinion that people already living in Spain are on a mission to prevent others from coming! What the motive for that could be is hard to fathom. However, you could try
> 
> 
> looking at El País in English
> Search the BBC news for items about Spain
> Search Huffington Post/ Time/ The Economist. They all have short, medium and long articles about these themes
> Search the forum for unemployment/ work/ jobs/ economy/ economic etc
> There is news of Spain starting the path towards economic recovery. When reading about this at least two things should be taken into account.
> 
> 1. There will be elections next May.
> 2. Where the recovery is starting from ie what the state of the economy is right now, what the rate of employment is right now and how long it will take for "recovery" to happen
> 
> 
> Have fun digging and delving!


What do we know about life in Spain? We only live (and some of us work) here.

Seriously, though, I don't know what to make of the situation in our area. A couple of houses have been sold, a couple that were partly built have been finished, a couple of new businesses started up in the village and a couple closed...unemployment in the area has increased, although that could be seasonal factors kicking in.

There certainly hasn't been much extra economic activity over the Christmas period, in fact we thought it was quieter than last year.

So...I suppose an optimist would say that things _might_ be looking up...un pocito.
And you have to be an optimist to view posts pointing out the realities of the employment situation here as 'negative'. Still over 40% looking for work here, youth unemployment approaching 60%. Maybe things are better in the more Brit immigrant areas?


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## xabiaxica

Frank B said:


> Hi Nick. How are you finding life in that area? In terms of the economy, services, cost of living etc? I haven't been out there for about 18 months and just wondering how bad things are being hit by the impact of Spain's unemployment etc.


I can't speak for that area - we're a bit north of there & in a town with very low unemployment compared to the rest of Spain. 

On the face of it here, everything is as normal - a lot of the bars & restaurants are busy, there are expensive shops which are open & trading & you'd think that there was no 'crisis' at all -it seems to be, & pretty much is, a thriving town

However when you scratch the surface it's a different story - we have soup kitchens which are busy - the Red Cross, Caritas & other organisations are feeding a lot of families every day by delivering staples such as rice, pasta, oil etc to them - & even clothes & there are beggars outside supermarkets 


All of this doesn't affect the vast majority of people living here - but some things do. Simple things like the physio clinic at the state clinic having its hours cut by half. Receptionist staffing levels at the same place cut - so the phone doesn't always get answered.

Less teachers in schools - & if they are sick the school has to wait 2 weeks before they can even _ask _for temp cover - so some classes just don't happen. You might think this won't affect retirees - but there are strikes by teachers, parents & students - the schools stay open but with skeleton cover - so some people take time off work on strike days - so less people to serve you etc.

Supermarkets, restaurants, bars & other stores have less staff generally, & often working for a pittance - so more queues. longer to get served etc. - & maybe less smiles 

less street cleaners

I could go on - but wouldn't want to appear negative.....

don't get me wrong - if you're coming here with no need to earn a living, it's still a wonderful place to live - but far from perfect


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## xabiaxica

amespana said:


> Your opinion Hepa, we live in an apartment,our community areas are beautifully kept and we have great neighbours.The majority of people in Spain live in apartments, I doubt they are all dirty and noisy as you suggest.Generalisations like that don't help anybody.


it's not for everyone though, is it?

before we moved here I would never have dreamed of living in an apartment - we tried it when we first came, & if there had been a safe outside place for the kids to play we would likely still be there - I always felt safe with two little kids when my husband was away working 

next week, nearly 11 years after moving from that building - we move back. Teenagers don't need a safe garden & we can't wait - it feels like we're going home


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## Derek H

Whenever I see a Town name I don't recognise I do a Google Earth. I'm getting a Monover in the middle of the campo near Madara, that can't be right, can it ? And Pinoso, comes up as El Pinos. 

Expert guidance please. If I'm going to live here, I need to know where places are.

Derek


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## xabiaxica

Derek H said:


> Whenever I see a Town name I don't recognise I do a Google Earth. I'm getting a Monover in the middle of the campo near Madara, that can't be right, can it ? And Pinoso, comes up as El Pinos.
> 
> Expert guidance please. If I'm going to live here, I need to know where places are.
> 
> Derek


Pinoso - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre


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## Derek H

Google Earth was correct then. Another lesson learnt. Assume nothing.
Google Earth 97 Me 0

Derek


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## 746786

Thanks for your helpful replies to my questions folks, and pointers for more sources of info. I think the thread did read as a bit discouraging at the start (old thread obviously). It's the nature of online communication in many ways.

But if we move on to the dire economic situation, then of course, it's bleak ('negative') and there's no point denying it or putting a bunch of flowers in front of it to make it look better. 

I haven't been over to my plot near Pinoso in a good eighteen months now, and have struggled to find real assistance in that area, from the ex-pats I've met out there. Not being negative here either, just factual! There seems to be some kind of an inertia unless you have a load of cash to put in people's hands, or a house to buy, in the case of estate agents. But perhaps it's a sign of the times really, not particular to Spain. People in the UK are generally less inclined to help, since the cultural shift that's taken place here in the last 30 years or so. It's sad to watch.

My attitude as someone quite sick of the money-driven, rat race mentality, is to try to make the best of whatever situation I might find out there. We want to live simply, off-grid, and to minimise our reliance on the kind of money you need to live a mainstream life in the UK, for example. It may even be an idea to start a new thread on the subject once I've had a look at what's been written already. Not sure how feasible that's going to be, but I need to make a trip or two out there again, establish some friendly contacts in the area, and take it from there.

Any further suggestions or ideas are welcome.


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## Pesky Wesky

I have seen quite a lot of effects of "La Crisis", but then again I do live in close quarters with Spaniards, with my husband and daughter both being Spanish and by virtue inheriting a Spanish family of 40+ with ages ranging from 89 to about 3 and a half. I also work with Spanish people in, at the moment, 6 or 7 companies. This gives me I think, a real life picture of some areas of the economy and employment. I am very aware however, that what happens to a well qualified person in Bilbao is very different to a semi skilled worker in Madrid which in turn is different to an untrained skilled worker in Jaen. On the other hand I also speak Spanish, I listen to the news, I read and I have to say, I don't think everyone does.
I very much agree with some of the comments already posted. On a superficial level a lot seems unchanged, but scratch the surface, ask a little about the hairdresser's sister or the shop that's changed hands for the nth time and you'll get a better picture of what's really happening.
In the month of December for example I read an article about how 1 in 4 hairdressers in Spain has closed down. A friend's hairdresser told 2 different clients of how her turnover has gone down by 40% (so the shop is still open, but making much less).
We hear a lot about how many people are becoming self employed and how that is so very positive. Well, you can put the spin you want on anything if you try. Of course there are success stories with self employed people setting up their own businesses. There are always people who can turn a bad situation to their advantage with a bit of luck, hard work and support, but look at this information about people signing on and off the social security as self employed








Loads of people signing on, and even more signing off, until very recently! And even so, the most recent figures are not up to the 2008 numbers which was when the crisis started to hit. Another thing to be taken into account is the fact that many companies now ask for their workers to be self employed, especially service industries whereas before you were contracted. This makes it much easier for the company all around, so many of those self employed workers have actually been forced into this way of working rather than being enticed by government conditions. So, it may indeed be good news that there are more self employed people, butas this article from infoautónomos says, many are "autónomo" out of necessity due to a lack of opportunity in the job market and it remains to be seen how many will actually become established businesses
Evolución de los autónomos en España: número, altas y bajas. | Infoautónomos


> A este crecimiento parecen haber contribuido de manera significativa la generalización de la tarifa plana para autónomos aprobada en septiembre de 2013 en el marco de la Ley de Emprendedores. Fenómeno paralelo al hecho de que muchos nuevos autónomos de los últimos años estén emprendiendo “por necesidad” ante la falta de oportunidades del mercado laboral, por lo que hace falta más tiempo para ver si consiguen consolidarse en el mercado y sobre todo si tienen capacidad de creación de empleo.


This is why I think it's very important, just as it is in our countries of origin, to look behind the numbers to find the reality.

Please note, I have not told anyone they're crazy for thinking about coming. I have not called any stupid either. I have limited myself to giving what I myself would deem information.

Now you can do with it, and all other posts that I've made on the subject, what you like, but negative it is not


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## Pesky Wesky

> =*Frank* B;6052426
> 
> I haven't been over to my plot near Pinoso in a good eighteen months now, and have struggled to find real assistance in that area, from the ex-pats I've met out there. Not being negative here either, just factual! There seems to be some kind of an inertia unless you have a load of cash to put in people's hands, or a house to buy, in the case of estate agents.


Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean here Frank.
What kind of assistance are you looking for?
There have been posts about being off grid in the past, not sure how successful they were though. Maybe do a search on here.
If this is an area you want to find out more about I think there are a few like minded people in the Baleric islands and Malaga area, oh and there's a thread here titled Maella where it seems there are loads of people buying up plots of land and broken down farmhouses...
Another idea that comes to mind is working as a volunteer on a similar project in Spain. There are 2 or 3 links on the first page of the Spain FAQ's
Also in the FAQ's there is info about renting and buying in Spain


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## 746786

Thanks Pesky. Yes, the picture we get via the media and statistics, versus the on the ground picture are often very different. In the end I guess a lot of it boils down to how easy it is for the individual to put food on the table. Have you noticed much change in the price of necessities?

I won't go into the unhelpfulness of those I mentioned, other than to say that I've been promised help out there and it's amounted to nothing, or a reversal of the promise after spending money to travel out there, do the ground work, set up a plan, only to have to start from scratch again because people proved unreliable. Trying to organise basic work from the UK has proven next to impossible too, which is why I was asking about anyone who is living in the Pinoso area or who may have contact details of trades people etc out there. Zippy-watkins PM'd me some useful info in that regard - thanks Karen (and apologies for hijacking your thread! Wasn't intentional!) :hippie:


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## mrypg9

About six months ago, a mini-market started up in a small shop on the edge of the village. It sold all the kinds of things you'd find in a SPAR-type shop in the UK. I really thought it would do well as we don't have a grocer's as such in the village, we do have a butcher, baker and fishmonger but no general store as such, certainly not one that stays open until gone ten at night. There are a lot of elderly people and quite a few young mums in the village who can't get to the supermarket down the A7 who I assumed would be eager customers. 
The store closed a couple of weeks ago as did a shop hiring wedding and First Communion outfits - that kept going for two years, a minor miracle. The DVD hire shop closed recently too.
A Chinese shop, a herbalist and what every small village really needs,, a puti-club, have opened in the past few months.
I give the herbalist and the puti-club six months maximum.


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## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> it's not for everyone though, is it?
> 
> before we moved here I would never have dreamed of living in an apartment - we tried it when we first came, & if there had been a safe outside place for the kids to play we would likely still be there - I always felt safe with two little kids when my husband was away working
> 
> next week, nearly 11 years after moving from that building - we move back. Teenagers don't need a safe garden & we can't wait - it feels like we're going home


Nothing wrong with pisos, it's a matter of taste. We lived in a ground floor piso for five months when we first moved here and it wasn't for us. It certainly wasn't dirty, the grounds were very well-kept and the neighbours were pleasant....but we had lived in a detached cottage with very thick walls and no near neighbours in the UK and in a large detached house in a dormitory village of Prague so we just couldn't adjust. Plus we have a big dog.

One thing I would say, though, is that many urbs seem to have flats that are rented out as holiday lets so you get a constant stream of 'strange' people. People on holiday like to relax and enjoy themselves so tend to be more noisy than settled tenants too.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Nothing wrong with pisos, it's a matter of taste. We lived in a ground floor piso for five months when we first moved here and it wasn't for us. It certainly wasn't dirty, the grounds were very well-kept and the neighbours were pleasant....but we had lived in a detached cottage with very thick walls and no near neighbours in the UK and in a large detached house in a dormitory village of Prague so we just couldn't adjust. Plus we have a big dog.
> 
> One thing I would say, though, is that many urbs seem to have flats that are rented out as holiday lets so you get a constant stream of 'strange' people. People on holiday like to relax and enjoy themselves so tend to be more noisy than settled tenants too.


there's nothing actually wrong with the apartment we're in now - ground floor with a largish private terrace & well-tended communal garden & pool

but we've just never settled here, so when the one we're moving to suddenly became available we jumped at it - we know the neighbours already because we've kept in touch, & it's just been refurbished too -_and _it's much closer to work & the beach  




now.... where's that packing tape?


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## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> One thing I would say, though, is that many urbs seem to have flats that are rented out as holiday lets so you get a constant stream of 'strange' people. People on holiday like to relax and enjoy themselves so tend to be more noisy than settled tenants too.


I think the use given to the flats is a very important point to consider for a number of reasons. If the flats are used for holiday lets that may mean
a)lower quality building materials used
b) the community meetings being even more of a nightmare than usual as flat owners don't live in the building or may not even live in the area so it's very difficult to reach agreements about maintenence and upkeep of the building
c) Renters who are not there long term don't tend to take the same care with noise levels, or with neighbourly relations
d) Some times of the year could be full to the brim with parking problems noise etc and other times of the year pretty lonely and desolate. This happens inland as well when Spanish people may go back to their hometowns and little villages can be overwhelmed in July and August

PS. I can think of three large complexes of flats in this town that have wonderful grounds with lots of grassy areas and very big, tall trees and a pool or pools. There are lot of others that don't have this though and are just more normal. This is not a holiday area, nor a "expat" area although it was used as a weekend house kind of place for people in Madrid and there are still a few houses on our urb that are used as such


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## 746786

Derek H said:


> Whenever I see a Town name I don't recognise I do a Google Earth. I'm getting a Monover in the middle of the campo near Madara, that can't be right, can it ? And Pinoso, comes up as El Pinos.
> 
> Expert guidance please. If I'm going to live here, I need to know where places are.
> 
> Derek


Hi Derek, that confused me at first too: two names for the one town. Pinoso and El Pinos. A lot of the road signs there are dual language apparently i.e. Castillian and Valencian.


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## amespana

Our particular block of about 55 apartments is about 95% Spanish,most of them younger than us(60ish).Our neighbours(madridlenos)we haven't seen in 14 years.They only come for a fortnight in August when we tend to be somewhere cooler.The one thing I have noticed recently is that arrears in the community fees seem to be creeping up,which is understandable.Any problems with noise or minor vandalism seem to be nipped in the bud very quickly as everybody tends to know each other and no one wants to be wasting community funds.However this is not a holiday urbanisation which I would avoid like the plague.


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## Expatliving

Hey Zippy:

Hold your head up and crack on. The people giving positive and negative advice are just trying to give you a 'warts and all' opinion of life around Spain. 

It's quite strange how sometimes you have to bite your lip when you read some of the scare stories on here? As a city person, London, I can assure you that many of the negatives on here would be tripled by my own current experiences living in the worlds greatest city ...

Red tape, theft, dubious councils on the Costas? Like it doesn't happen here (UK) x10. 

The main negatives in Spain are unemployment, red tape and widespread corruption.


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## Pesky Wesky

Expatliving said:


> Hey Zippy:
> 
> Hold your head up and crack on. The people giving positive and negative advice are just trying to give you a 'warts and all' opinion of life around Spain.
> 
> It's quite strange how sometimes you have to bite your lip when you read some of the scare stories on here? As a city person, London, I can assure you that many of the negatives on here would be tripled by my own current experiences living in the worlds greatest city ...
> 
> Red tape, theft, dubious councils on the Costas? Like it doesn't happen here (UK) x10.
> 
> The main negatives in Spain are unemployment, red tape and widespread corruption.


I must admit that I find how some people approach a forum difficult to understand. A poster on here talked about _needing courage_ and needing_ to be brave_ to post, and now Expatliving, you say you have to bite your lip. I don't understand why. You may need to be brave and to have courage to leave your country and loved ones, but to ask a question on a forum? To type a few words about your experience?I don't see it.
My own opinion is that you have to keep a civil tongue in your head, but your opinion is your opinion and your experience, which is probably the most worthy thing to write about here, is your experience which no one can refute (although some will try ). You also have to/ should be prepared for the information that comes back not to be what you expected. To take advantage of this forum particularly I would say you have to be _open minded_,_ genuinely interested_ and ready to_ re formulate ideas_ that you maybe didn't even know that you had. For example, it took a long time for my family to accept the idea that we have snow where we are and there is usually at least one heavy snowfall each year. They couldn't get their heads around the fact that I live in Spain and it was cold. Well if someone tells you that it snows, has lived that, has had that experience then it's kind of annoying that people question this time and time again.
So, if you want information and are prepared for what comes back at you Come On Down!!!!!


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## Expatliving

Pesky Wesky said:


> I must admit that I find how some people approach a forum difficult to understand. A poster on here talked about _needing courage_ and needing_ to be brave_ to post, and now Expatliving, you say you have to bite your lip. I don't understand why. You may need to be brave and to have courage to leave your country and loved ones, but to ask a question on a forum? To type a few words about your experience?I don't see it.
> My own opinion is that you have to keep a civil tongue in your head, but your opinion is your opinion and your experience, which is probably the most worthy thing to write about here, is your experience which no one can refute (although some will try ). You also have to/ should be prepared for the information that comes back not to be what you expected. To take advantage of this forum particularly I would say you have to be _open minded_,_ genuinely interested_ and ready to_ re formulate ideas_ that you maybe didn't even know that you had. For example, it took a long time for my family to accept the idea that we have snow where we are and there is usually at least one heavy snowfall each year. They couldn't get their heads around the fact that I live in Spain and it was cold. Well if someone tells you that it snows, has lived that, has had that experience then it's kind of annoying that people question this time and time again.
> So, if you want information and are prepared for what comes back at you Come On Down!!!!!



My experiences, currently, are based on living in the biggest city in the UK and far bigger than anything in Spain. How can I seriously identify with a person who say, lives in the Cotwolds, or how about Scotland? The pressures and concerns have similarities in core issues, politics and society, but how can I make a reasoned comment on a subject related to say, living near the sea or countryside issues? Likewise, how can anybody pass judgement on the rights and wrongs of living in a metropolis with the huge costs and problems associated? No one on here needs to hear me go on regarding the underlying reasoning for me moving to Spain this coming spring, but if you want a clue, just open up a London biased newspaper and read on. 

Whilst change is good for society, the implications for cost to service that 'change' are massive. We already subsidise one part of the UK, now we (tax payer - I'm still working for the foreseeable future) are expected to pay for the newly created social demands that come with EU membership ... No prizes for that rather awkward conversion.

So, family in tow, I head to Spain, I will pay my taxes, I'll pay for private health insurance (I should repeat that) and I will contribute to my community. I'm certainly not xenophobic, I'll embrace Spanish life and will question quite why people retire/move to Spain, only to rush into a newly created British ghetto, where those same people can recreate their own personal utopia, based on what they wanted the UK still to be?

I'll open my arms to everything that comes to me and my family in Spain, the good and the bad. I won't hide away, but I'll choose to be tactful and not to hurt or annoy other residents in my community. The same thing applies on this forum, it's easy to be a 'smart arse' or 'know all' via your fingertips, but as you probably know PW those sort of attitudes disappear when you meet some of the detractors face to face.

Come rain or shine, I'll head to Spain, perhaps to create my own Utopia? I leave behind Europe's greatest city and a country pretending to be on the up. No regrets and I'll take on all the red tape and nonsense thrown at me ... because that's what I'm use to. 

References to being 'brave' and having 'courage' are people being polite and not wanting to offend people, with their worries and concerns? I take note of your slight cynicism, it takes a lot of courage to be brave sometimes with replies ...


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> I must admit that I find how some people approach a forum difficult to understand. A poster on here talked about _needing courage_ and needing_ to be brave_ to post, and now Expatliving, you say you have to bite your lip. I don't understand why. You may need to be brave and to have courage to leave your country and loved ones, but to ask a question on a forum? To type a few words about your experience?I don't see it.
> My own opinion is that you have to keep a civil tongue in your head, but your opinion is your opinion and your experience, which is probably the most worthy thing to write about here, is your experience which no one can refute (although some will try ). You also have to/ should be prepared for the information that comes back not to be what you expected. To take advantage of this forum particularly I would say you have to be _open minded_,_ genuinely interested_ and ready to_ re formulate ideas_ that you maybe didn't even know that you had. For example, it took a long time for my family to accept the idea that we have snow where we are and there is usually at least one heavy snowfall each year. They couldn't get their heads around the fact that I live in Spain and it was cold. Well if someone tells you that it snows, has lived that, has had that experience then it's kind of annoying that people question this time and time again.
> So, if you want information and are prepared for what comes back at you Come On Down!!!!!


And of course many of us who now live here have, like yourself, had experience of living and working in countries other than the UK and Spain. I lived for many years in London, have lived in Dorset and spent long periods of time in many European countries and in North America. We can bounce our Spanish experiences off what we've learned in other places and make reasonable comparisons and judgments, allowing of course for the passing of time and other changes.
But even with that experience, if you're not brain-dead you are constantly learning something new.
I do get a bit taken aback at times by the obvious callowness and lack of experience of some people who are ready and willing to throw up their whole lives - and sometimes those of their children - to start on a new life in a country which, whilst not the banana republic some make it out to be, has a whole new set of customs and languages with which any immigrant has to come to grips.
I keep thinking back to my experience of the years spent living in the Czech Republic....All those decades of visiting, getting reasonable fluent in the language, making friends over decades....yet no way was I prepared for the actual experience of living full-time even in a 'civilised' capital city like Prague. Shopping, dealing with every-day bureaucracy, getting used to the subtle differences of culture....it all took some getting used to.
As for crime and bureaucracy....both, in the UK and Spain, cannot compared to Eastern Europe. Mind you, if you are physically assaulted or robbed or your house is burgled it makes no real difference where you are. Your perceptions are changed forever, no matter what may or may no happen in Birmingham, Berlin, Barcelona or Beijing.


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## mrypg9

Expatliving said:


> Likewise, how can anybody pass judgement on the rights and wrongs of living in a metropolis with the huge costs and problems associated?


People who lived there before coming to Spain?


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## Pesky Wesky

Expatliving said:


> My experiences, currently, are based on living in the biggest city in the UK and far bigger than anything in Spain. How can I seriously identify with a person who say, lives in the Cotwolds, or how about Scotland? The pressures and concerns have similarities in core issues, politics and society, but how can I make a reasoned comment on a subject related to say, living near the sea or countryside issues? Likewise, how can anybody pass judgement on the rights and wrongs of living in a metropolis with the huge costs and problems associated? No one on here needs to hear me go on regarding the underlying reasoning for me moving to Spain this coming spring, but if you want a clue, just open up a London biased newspaper and read on.
> 
> Whilst change is good for society, the implications for cost to service that 'change' are massive. We already subsidise one part of the UK, now we (tax payer - I'm still working for the foreseeable future) are expected to pay for the newly created social demands that come with EU membership ... No prizes for that rather awkward conversion.
> 
> So, family in tow, I head to Spain, I will pay my taxes, I'll pay for private health insurance (I should repeat that) and I will contribute to my community. I'm certainly not xenophobic, I'll embrace Spanish life and will question quite why people retire/move to Spain, only to rush into a newly created British ghetto, where those same people can recreate their own personal utopia, based on what they wanted the UK still to be?
> 
> I'll open my arms to everything that comes to me and my family in Spain, the good and the bad. I won't hide away, but I'll choose to be tactful and not to hurt or annoy other residents in my community. The same thing applies on this forum, it's easy to be a 'smart arse' or 'know all' via your fingertips, but as you probably know PW those sort of attitudes disappear when you meet some of the detractors face to face.
> 
> Come rain or shine, I'll head to Spain, perhaps to create my own Utopia? I leave behind Europe's greatest city and a country pretending to be on the up. No regrets and I'll take on all the red tape and nonsense thrown at me ... because that's what I'm use to.
> 
> References to being 'brave' and having 'courage' are people being polite and not wanting to offend people, with their worries and concerns? I take note of your slight cynicism, it takes a lot of courage to be brave sometimes with replies ...


You're being too subtle for me Expat, and I can't tell if you're having a go at me or not, so I'll be "open minded" as I said others should be and go with the flow 
I certainly agree with you that living in the Cotswolds is not the same as London or other big cities, and in the same vein"encourage" people on the forum to not make sweeping statements about Spain and the Spanish as they are usually referring to one part of Spain and more often than not the comunidad, region or even municipio where they happen to live. The use of bars on the windows, central heating, office working hours, gas, use of English/ Spanish and climate come to immediately to mind as to subjects that people are likely to generalise on when you really can't. North, south and central Spain are very different as is inland and costal, mountain or beach localities, tourist areas and non tourist and any other division you can come up with.
As for smart arsing, I think there are few who are or who try to be. Most people who post and who have lived here for a while have a real interest in the country and are eager to share their enthusiasm. There are few "moaners" who run down all that is different to the UK.
And I don't understand this, but maybe it's not important...


> References to being 'brave' and having 'courage' are people being polite and not wanting to offend people, with their worries and concerns?


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## Expatliving

mrypg9 said:


> And of course many of us who now live here have, like yourself, had experience of living and working in countries other than the UK and Spain. I lived for many years in London, have lived in Dorset and spent long periods of time in many European countries and in North America. We can bounce our Spanish experiences off what we've learned in other places and make reasonable comparisons and judgments, allowing of course for the passing of time and other changes.
> But even with that experience, if you're not brain-dead you are constantly learning something new.
> I do get a bit taken aback at times by the obvious callowness and lack of experience of some people who are ready and willing to throw up their whole lives - and sometimes those of their children - to start on a new life in a country which, whilst not the banana republic some make it out to be, has a whole new set of customs and languages with which any immigrant has to come to grips.
> I keep thinking back to my experience of the years spent living in the Czech Republic....All those decades of visiting, getting reasonable fluent in the language, making friends over decades....yet no way was I prepared for the actual experience of living full-time even in a 'civilised' capital city like Prague. Shopping, dealing with every-day bureaucracy, getting used to the subtle differences of culture....it all took some getting used to.
> As for crime and bureaucracy....both, in the UK and Spain, cannot compared to Eastern Europe. Mind you, if you are physically assaulted or robbed or your house is burgled it makes no real difference where you are. Your perceptions are changed forever, no matter what may or may no happen in Birmingham, Berlin, Barcelona or Beijing.


I do enjoy your posts, you are a seasoned traveler that is well worth listening to. Perhaps some of us 'soon to be' newbies are chasing excitement, rather than the grey World of the UK, both in the sky and throughout society? 

My kids think its a great laugh, if it goes tits up? We'll flog our home at a knock down price and live somewhere else in the UK. 

Life is about risk and enjoyment, surely ...


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## Expatliving

Pesky Wesky said:


> You're being too subtle for me Expat, and I can't tell if you're having a go at me or not, so I'll be "open minded" as I said others should be and go with the flow
> I certainly agree with you that living in the Cotswolds is not the same as London or other big cities, and in the same vein"encourage" people on the forum to not make sweeping statements about Spain and the Spanish as they are usually referring to one part of Spain and more often than not the comunidad, region or even municipio where they happen to live. The use of bars on the windows, central heating, office working hours, gas, use of English/ Spanish and climate come to immediately to mind as to subjects that people are likely to generalise on when you really can't. North, south and central Spain are very different as is inland and costal, mountain or beach localities, tourist areas and non tourist and any other division you can come up with.
> As for smart arsing, I think there are few who are or who try to be. Most people who post and who have lived here for a while have a real interest in the country and are eager to share their enthusiasm. There are few "moaners" who run down all that is different to the UK.
> And I don't understand this, but maybe it's not important...


Pesky ... No way am I digging you out. I always read your posts because you don't pull any punches, simple as. All I was trying to convey is that new posters are not looking for continued 'rose tinted' glasses comments, we (me included) would sometimes like replies that start with positives. Surely there are some positives in Spain?

Having said the above, I wouldn't want you to change, because sometimes its like a swift kick between the legs to bring me to my senses!


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## Pesky Wesky

Expatliving said:


> Pesky ... No way am I digging you out. I always read your posts because you don't pull any punches, simple as. All I was trying to convey is that new posters are not looking for continued 'rose tinted' glasses comments, we (me included) would sometimes like replies that start with positives. Surely there are some positives in Spain?
> 
> Having said the above, I wouldn't want you to change, because sometimes its like a swift kick between the legs to bring me to my senses!


There are plenty! 
But they are perhaps not always what people think they'll be. For example, stifling hot weather can really be unpleasant, especially if you have to work. I remember when I had a car without airconditioning I had to seriously think my wardrobe and my parking strategy. Now with airconditioning I can semi relax and usually get to work with out pools of sweat running down my back.
I always remember Jojo talking about her kids not appreciating the weather and also about colours and how they seemed more vibrant here or maybe it's that Britian is greyer, or maybe it's a frame of mind, but I do agree with her!
I am often surprised by the people here who seem to be more positive, more forgiving, more open minded, more ready to laugh, more patient, but that's very personal as well. That's not to say you can't find wonderfully generous and warm people in the UK, but *I've* found more here.
Some people talk about the wonderful food. I eat well here, but I eat well at home with my husband and I making our own concoctions with good basic ingredients which you can probably find in the UK, but at a more expensive price.
Something I do appreciate here is the time. Eating later, both lunch and evening meal, things seem more relaxed. No rush to get back and cook lunch you can be out all morning and still have time to have an aperitivo and a chat and cook lunch, which is what we did today. Late breakfast at home, cup of coffee in bar, walk with dog in crisp winter conditions, favourite bar for a Martini and tapa and back for lunch. And there's the possibility for a repeat performance in the evening! I love going to a friends for lunch and not getting back until 9 in the evening.
And, briefly because this is taking the thread right off track I love the wine and the countryside. I love the countryside in the UK too, but I don't love the life!

I hear what you say about positive comments. It's difficult if people ask about employment and the economy, and I know I sound like a grouch at times, but I do think it's important that people are not taken in with a couple of unresearched stories about Spain's rise out the recession and political propaganda. I did start a Good News Thread a while back in order to overcome this!.It would be nice to be calm and objective in all our posts, but we don't always manage it, and sometimeswe're just plain wrong and need to be put right, but _politely_ please


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## 746786

*tumbling tumbleweeds*

These are tumbleweeds. They blow through a thread when the thread question isn't answered, or it goes cold, forgotten like a cup of tea you made before the phone rang. Tumbleweeds scare some people, as this video will show.

The question remains: what is a "Pinoso" and does it have any honest trades people living on it who won't rip you off? opcorn:


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## mrypg9

Expatliving said:


> I do enjoy your posts, you are a seasoned traveler that is well worth listening to. Perhaps some of us 'soon to be' newbies are chasing excitement, rather than the grey World of the UK, both in the sky and throughout society?
> 
> My kids think its a great laugh, if it goes tits up? We'll flog our home at a knock down price and live somewhere else in the UK.
> 
> Life is about risk and enjoyment, surely ...


Enjoyment, yes, risk...for me, a huge no-no.

I didn't find life in the UK 'grey'. My life was full, don't know about exciting, we had a good social life, travelled a lot, had enough money not to have to worry about making ends meet, enjoyed good health... I have never run down the UK, I have no reason to do so. I am what I am because, to paraphrase The Boss Springsteen, I was 'born in the UK'. Born, bred in the UK, educated, met my partner there, spent most of my life there. What's not to like?
We decided to leave the UK for a change, no more, no less. You can stay in the place you're familiar with, with your old familiar friends when you retire....or start anew somewhere. As I've said, it's like leaving home again.
But exciting??? Well, if you were going to live in some remote corner of the Amazonian rain forest and go native or like PW go to Colombia, not on Thomson's destination list, then yes, I guess that would be exciting. But Spain is a middle-class western European country, rapidly becoming comme les autres, as are most European countries, and life is in most respects just like in Blighty but with more sun most of the time. As JoJo always wisely points out, you go shopping, wash the clothes, cook dinner, clean the loo whether in Barcelona, Berlin or Bognor Regis.
I do think life is largely what you make it. If you are a loser in the UK you'll bring your problems in your luggage to Spain with you. I do get a bit puzzled by folk who go on about the 'Spanish dream'. If your life is so drab that a bit of sand, sun, sea ad palm trees is essential to give it spice....that's sad.
You know, there are many people in parts of the UK who would give their eye teeth to swap places with you and live in London. When I was growing up in Dorset I wanted the bright lights and action of The Smoke....but when I lived there it was....not that different, really. 
We didn't plan to stay in Spain. Our thoughts were Spain after Prague, then France, then back to OH's hometown Glasgow to end our days in a converted loft in the Merchant City. But we love living here, we have a quiet life with books, music, good food and friends and what more could a pair of ancianas want from life??


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## mrypg9

Frank B said:


> The question remains: what is a "Pinoso" and does it have any honest trades people living on it who won't rip you off? opcorn:
> 
> ]


I have no idea about your first question. As to the second, which applies everywhere.....of course there will be honest tradespeople there. The knack is finding them.
My general advice would be to steer clear of Brits and other foreigners unless you have really good grounds for thinking they are kosher. Look for a long-established Spanish local tradesperson who has a reputation to lose. Don't be seduced by cheapness. Be on the spot and keep an eye on things.
Not much more anyone can say, really. And every tradesperson can have a bad day or fall out with a customer, however good s/he may be.

As for thread drift, it's something you'll get used to. It can mean no-one can answer your query, no-one is that interested, or something in a post has caught their interest and they want to discuss it. Mods are very sensible and only 'kill' threads when they stray kilometres, not metres, off-track.


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## 746786

Thanks. Yes, my tongue was in my cheek when I posted the tumbleweeds thing. I've been on a few forums and I understand......Pinoso isn't that interesting even for me! Thanks for the tips though. I need to work on my Spanish...


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## zippy-watkins

Phew its taken me half an hour to read through these comments as we've just got back from spending a few days at our house in Spain.

My original post earlier last year asked for advice in general regarding help etc. We were lucky in that we had an excellent estate agen (CasasinEspana) who held our hand and steered us through the whole process. 

My partner and I are both successful business people. I work in London, he works for an international shipping company. We are both savvy and know what's what. That said, our move to Spain involves us taking a massive step outside the box into the unknown. We're past the scary stage and now at the cant wait to move and get on with it stage.

Luckily, we can both do some work remotely. We also have lots of ideas. None of which I want to discuss on an open forum. If that's unreasonable, frankly I dont really care!

I've tried to give Frank some useful advice and have put him in touch with our builders in the hope that they can help him. Having spoken to them last week, I'm hopeful this will be the case.

We're always happy to help those who want to be helped. We're no good with negative people and have no wish or desire to live as ex pats. We shall integrate and learn the language. 

We still have questions about the move. Having just returned from our trip to Spain - and having taken the dog with us this time - when we move permanently - do we need to bother with a passport for the cat? The borders this end had no interest in the dog and we only had to show her passport on the way back yesterday. Thoughts? The cat's an ancient old thing who's never had a vaccination in his life! As for a microchip?!!!

If anyone can offer advice on the above, I'd be interested to know. Otherwise, I will use my very good friend google and have a look myself!

Big shout out to all those in the Pinoso / Elche / La Romana area  

Karen. x


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## zippy-watkins

NickH01 said:


> Hi Zippy-watkins. Pleased you got sorted, we are almost there with a house just outside of Elche. Hope all goes well with your move.


Hi Nick

Yes, all the red tape is now done and the house was officially ours a few months ago. That said, we still get the odd very official looking letter - in spanish of course - which sends us off scurrying to our bilingual friends for help!

Fingers crossed that your house purchase goes through ok. Elche's a great place so you'll love it there. Are you moving permanently?

Karen.


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## 746786

zippy-watkins said:


> I've tried to give Frank some useful advice and have put him in touch with our builders in the hope that they can help him. Having spoken to them last week, I'm hopeful this will be the case.
> 
> Karen. x


Thanks again for that Karen. I've been emailing with Paul, and he sounds like a decent fella, that's a promising start. I can ask him at some point if he wants his contact info posted here, for the benefit of others in a similar position, and for the benefit of him if he wants more work obviously.

Sounds like you has a positive trip and I can identify with your ecitement, although personally, I'm in a bit of an emotional lull as I have many obstacles to overcome still, not least of which is fleshing out the income plan more than we've done already.

I liked Elche (or was it Elda?). Anyway, the place I had to go to to get my NIE number. Waited outside the police office from about 6:30am as I was advised to turn up early to beat the crowds! I liked that town anyway - it was a refreshing contrast to Pinoso's rather small, gossipy feel.

Do you have a date set for the move?


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## zippy-watkins

Frank B said:


> Thanks again for that Karen. I've been emailing with Paul, and he sounds like a decent fella, that's a promising start. I can ask him at some point if he wants his contact info posted here, for the benefit of others in a similar position, and for the benefit of him if he wants more work obviously.
> 
> Sounds like you has a positive trip and I can identify with your ecitement, although personally, I'm in a bit of an emotional lull as I have many obstacles to overcome still, not least of which is fleshing out the income plan more than we've done already.
> 
> I liked Elche (or was it Elda?). Anyway, the place I had to go to to get my NIE number. Waited outside the police office from about 6:30am as I was advised to turn up early to beat the crowds! I liked that town anyway - it was a refreshing contrast to Pinoso's rather small, gossipy feel.
> 
> Do you have a date set for the move?


Glad you're making some headway now. Paul is a decent chap and all our worries about builders on site whilst you're not at the house et etc, have all been completely unfounded.

Elda for NIE numbers. We also had an early start to get our NIE numbers. That's further compounded by the fact that the NIE numbers (whilst your number remains unique to you) are only actually valid for three months (ARRRGGHH OMG). We've managed to fudge it thus far and in fact our NIE certificates dont have a date on them in any case!! 

I still get confused between Elda, Monovar and Novelda. Elche is where we go food shopping so I know that one now  

We'll be making the big move first week of May this year. In four months. Omg. Considering we started doing our online research this time last year, its gone soooooooo quickly! 

Karen


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## 746786

I didn't realise the NIE only lasted 3 months! After all that effort! I need to check my certificate.

We'll be taking a trip over this year to meet Paul and maybe plan some work on the plot etc. Maybe we could hook up when we're there?

I really like the feel of that area, especially as you're driving in from the main motorway (can't remember the name) and you get into that valley before Pinoso. It's beautiful. Still feels a bit surreal to think we'll be living there one day...


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## zippy-watkins

Frank B said:


> I didn't realise the NIE only lasted 3 months! After all that effort! I need to check my certificate.
> 
> We'll be taking a trip over this year to meet Paul and maybe plan some work on the plot etc. Maybe we could hook up when we're there?
> 
> I really like the feel of that area, especially as you're driving in from the main motorway (can't remember the name) and you get into that valley before Pinoso. It's beautiful. Still feels a bit surreal to think we'll be living there one day...


The number stays, but the certificate lasts three months......worth remembering. Apparently we shouldn't need it again... but then had a sticky moment when Darren bought a left hand drive car and needed the NIE certficate. We got away with it then........

And yes, definitely be happy to hook up. We might even have some guest accommodation on offer if you need it - depending on (a) whether Paul et al get going on our next project and (b) when you intend coming over.

I still remember our awe at the beauty of the place when we made our first drive up to Pinoso. Its stunning and I'm not sure I will ever tire of looking at it.

We've been to'ing and fro'ing a few times since buying the house, and the house in Spain now definitely feels more like home than our one in the UK!

Karen.


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## snikpoh

Please don't be confused between the NIE certificate and the certificate of registration - one is white and the other green (just to help us foreigners ).

It's far simpler to go straight for the green form first as it will also include your NIE. IF YOU ARE PERMANENTLY RESIDENT THAT IS.

If you go for the NIE first, although a simpler process, it will cost you more and you STILL have to get the green one at some point!


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## zippy-watkins

snikpoh said:


> Please don't be confused between the NIE certificate and the certificate of registration - one is white and the other green (just to help us foreigners ).
> 
> It's far simpler to go straight for the green form first as it will also include your NIE. IF YOU ARE PERMANENTLY RESIDENT THAT IS.
> 
> If you go for the NIE first, although a simpler process, it will cost you more and you STILL have to get the green one at some point!


But you need your NIE number to buy the house? And without a house you cannot get permanent residence? Maybe I've got it wrong.... again!


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## Horlics

Last year I booked a few days at a farm owned by an English couple. They're doing what you're talking about, they're entirely off grid and sell produce. It's a very nice setting too, close to the Ebro river and not far from the coast. Bought it from eBay apparently!

They're on Airbnb. Why not go and stay and ask all the questions you have.

PM me if you want details.



Frank B said:


> We want to live simply, off-grid, and to minimise our reliance on the kind of money you need to live a mainstream life in the UK, for example. It may even be an idea to start a new thread on the subject once I've had a look at what's been written already. Not sure how feasible that's going to be, but I need to make a trip or two out there again, establish some friendly contacts in the area, and take it from there.
> 
> Any further suggestions or ideas are welcome.


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## 746786

Horlics said:


> Last year I booked a few days at a farm owned by an English couple. They're doing what you're talking about, they're entirely off grid and sell produce. It's a very nice setting too, close to the Ebro river and not far from the coast. Bought it from eBay apparently!
> 
> They're on Airbnb. Why not go and stay and ask all the questions you have.
> 
> PM me if you want details.


Thanks Horlics, I will do. Cheers.


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## NickH01

Hi Karen. No not moving out permanent just yet. Long holidays this year, whilst keeping an eye on the 183 days.


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## snikpoh

zippy-watkins said:


> But you need your NIE number to buy the house? And without a house you cannot get permanent residence? Maybe I've got it wrong.... again!


You don't need to own a property in Spain to be a resident - there are millions who don't.


You certainly need an NIE to buy a house but my point was that you can get this at the same time as getting your certificate of registration (residencia).


It's quite common to rent before buying (the recommended route). If ones intention is to live in Spain, then the advice is to get the 'residencia' rather than just an NIE.


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## Pesky Wesky

zippy-watkins said:


> Phew its taken me half an hour to read through these comments as we've just got back from spending a few days at our house in Spain.
> 
> My original post earlier last year asked for advice in general regarding help etc. We were lucky in that we had an excellent estate agen (CasasinEspana) who held our hand and steered us through the whole process.
> 
> My partner and I are both successful business people. I work in London, he works for an international shipping company. We are both savvy and know what's what. That said, our move to Spain involves us taking a massive step outside the box into the unknown. We're past the scary stage and now at the cant wait to move and get on with it stage.
> 
> Luckily, we can both do some work remotely. We also have lots of ideas. None of which I want to discuss on an open forum. If that's unreasonable, frankly I dont really care!
> 
> I've tried to give Frank some useful advice and have put him in touch with our builders in the hope that they can help him. Having spoken to them last week, I'm hopeful this will be the case.
> 
> We're always happy to help those who want to be helped. We're no good with negative people and have no wish or desire to live as ex pats. We shall integrate and learn the language.
> 
> We still have questions about the move. Having just returned from our trip to Spain - and having taken the dog with us this time - when we move permanently - do we need to bother with a passport for the cat? The borders this end had no interest in the dog and we only had to show her passport on the way back yesterday. Thoughts? The cat's an ancient old thing who's never had a vaccination in his life! As for a microchip?!!!
> 
> If anyone can offer advice on the above, I'd be interested to know. Otherwise, I will use my very good friend google and have a look myself!
> 
> Big shout out to all those in the Pinoso / Elche / La Romana area
> 
> Karen. x


Ignoring the comment about negativity, you may find what you need to know about pets in post 9 in the FAQ's sticky on the main Spain page.
Also here (Search for pets, pet passport, dogs, cats etc)
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...t-changes-pet-passport-scheme-29-12-14-a.html


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## 746786

Hi folks, Karen gave me contact details of a friendly builder out this direction if anyone is interested. He's happy for me to post this recommendation. I haven't had any work done by him yet, but he's been very helpful at the planning stages so far and we hope that he'll be doing our work before we move out there (should say, 'if' we move out there....):

*****

Hope all's going to plan Karen....


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## jenbren25

Frank B said:


> Hi folks, Karen gave me contact details of a friendly builder out this direction if anyone is interested. He's happy for me to post this recommendation. I haven't had any work done by him yet, but he's been very helpful at the planning stages so far and we hope that he'll be doing our work before we move out there (should say, 'if' we move out there....):
> 
> *****
> 
> Hope all's going to plan Karen....


Hi Frank,
Please could you give me the builders details...As myself and my husband also have a plot of land in Pinoso that we want to build on. Thank you.


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## Pesky Wesky

jenbren25 said:


> Hi Frank,
> Please could you give me the builders details...As myself and my husband also have a plot of land in Pinoso that we want to build on. Thank you.


Hello,
Frank can give you the details of the builder, but only by PM. Your PM facility will only be operational when you have made some more posts that contribute to the forum in some way, so ask some more questions by starting a new thread or give some info about the Spain that you know, and you'll be set


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## zippy-watkins

Hello.... I've been meaning to update my thread with what we've been up to the last two years. So, we did move out to Spain and set up a successful glamping site. Not only that but I managed to get a full time job in a British doctor's surgery (yes in Spain) and my husband has set up a transport company. We're both actually working more hours than we did in the UK. So - ironically our failure has been to get our life / work balance right and this year has been particularly trying!

Has it been easy? Hell no! But here's hoping to an easier year next year as we start adjusting what we're doing!

x


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## st3v3y

zippy-watkins said:


> Hello.... I've been meaning to update my thread with what we've been up to the last two years. So, we did move out to Spain and set up a successful glamping site. Not only that but I managed to get a full time job in a British doctor's surgery (yes in Spain) and my husband has set up a transport company. We're both actually working more hours than we did in the UK. So - ironically our failure has been to get our life / work balance right and this year has been particularly trying!
> 
> Has it been easy? Hell no! But here's hoping to an easier year next year as we start adjusting what we're doing!
> 
> x


Well I for one am glad to find out that this thread has a happy ending. 

And that has nothing to do with the fact that I only just realised it is 7 years old either.


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## Pesky Wesky

zippy-watkins said:


> Hello.... I've been meaning to update my thread with what we've been up to the last two years. So, we did move out to Spain and set up a successful glamping site. Not only that but I managed to get a full time job in a British doctor's surgery (yes in Spain) and my husband has set up a transport company. We're both actually working more hours than we did in the UK. So - ironically our failure has been to get our life / work balance right and this year has been particularly trying!
> 
> Has it been easy? Hell no! But here's hoping to an easier year next year as we start adjusting what we're doing!
> 
> x


Apart from working hard you've been pretty lucky. There can't be many jobs in British doctors' surgeries going in Spain!
Are you doing the glamping, full time job at the doctor's sugery, and OH working on the transport company all at the same time?:shocked:
I do think it's a shame you didn't post more about your experiences. I know we've had people on here asking about glamping/ camping and how difficult it was to get licences and to comply with the regulations. You could give some tips and maybe it's a bit easier now, or maybe in your area the authorities are more reasonable.

BTW for others who are newer to the forum please note that this thread was started in 2009, a prime year for the recession in Spain which started in 2008 and that coloured many remarks that were made. The majority of experts forecast that the recession would last for 10 years. It seemed unbelievable at the time, but here we are in 2016 and whilst things are much much better, recovery is slow and Spain is still not back on her feet and with a caretaker governmnent that has been around for 300 days (on the 15th of Oct) it doesn't look like we're going to be racing towards full employment for a long time yet!


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## zippy-watkins

Hi there I'm not sure that I consider we've been 'lucky' to get where we are at today - it's been through sheer determination and hard work. Most of the summer, we've collectively been working 7 days a week - wrestling with the realisation that that's not what we started out to do! Coupled with my 45 minute commute twice a day, it's been an exhausting year!!

That said, it does go to show that if you are determined and hard working, it is possible for things to succeed! We have met many people like ourselves who have succeeded tho none of us are ever complacent. 

And in answer to the question about why I never kept the forum updated, it was because quite frankly I didn't need the dressing downs which frequently happens on these forums! Cynical? Yes fraid do! But we unfortunately have reason to be! 

x


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## Pesky Wesky

zippy-watkins said:


> Hi there I'm not sure that I consider we've been 'lucky' to get where we are at today - it's been through sheer determination and hard work. Most of the summer, we've collectively been working 7 days a week - wrestling with the realisation that that's not what we started out to do! Coupled with my 45 minute commute twice a day, it's been an exhausting year!!
> 
> That said, it does go to show that if you are determined and hard working, it is possible for things to succeed! We have met many people like ourselves who have succeeded tho none of us are ever complacent.
> 
> And in answer to the question about why I never kept the forum updated, it was because quite frankly I didn't need the dressing downs which frequently happens on these forums! Cynical? Yes fraid do! But we unfortunately have reason to be!
> 
> x


Sheer determination and hard work, and imho, luck or maybe fate! I'm sure you have worked extremely hard, but I happen to believe that luck is a factor in most successful outcomes - love, work, finding the right home... Of course only you can know if that is true in your situation.

And I didn't ask a question about why you didn't update the forum I just said it was a shame you hadn't, especially as you feel that the forum gave you a dressing down and presumably didn't help you. Your up to date knowledge could guide others. What is now clear for example is that you don't earn a living from the glamping and that you haven't gone through the the licencing process that others thought could be problematic.


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## mono

Or have you. Please let us know


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