# Information needed...



## 500blue

Hello, Have been reading this site for about 3 weeks now due to the fact I am looking at an employment opportunity near Cairo.
Have a few questions, hope some can answer.
Where in the area do most expats live? I realize all over but is Maadi more popular or 6th October? where exactly is "New Cairo"? The maps of the area are very difficult to read becase a lot of them have no street identifiers.
I will be working near Giza where GM and other facilities are located. I have a family so we would all be coming over eventually; including children around 10years of age...
It is difficult to get a lot of information on the schools even from their websites.

And I know that it is a completely personal descision, but would you suggest even coming to Egypt at this time. I have some friends in Dubai they say its not as bad a portrayed on the news.

Is life really that bad for white women and girls? My wife and daughter are both white and blonde - do not want to put them in harms way. There is a lot of negativity with reagards to Egyptian men, so would like some info if can be provided.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

If I come there I wil be making a good living and can afford the upper scale areas,(according to the employer) do any of you live there? Are there other Canadians or British or Americans in those areas?

Looking for any information. Thanks.


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## hhaddad

Welcome to the forum. As for the situation here have a look there's plenty of threads covering the recent situation and what's ongoing.
If you'll be working in Giza 6th October or sheikh Zaid are the best and nearest new developments.Zamalek old properties but upmarket.Mohandesin forget it it was upmarket but now has gone down the pan after 25/01/2011.


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## 500blue

Thanks for the reply. I am not to worried about the trouble right in Cairo at this time. I am more interested in schooling and general areas where I can meet new Egyptians but at the same time have fellow expats as neighbors.


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## MaidenScotland

Hello and welcome to the forum

Your friends in Dubai are exactly there.. they do not know what it is like here.

Life here for foreign women has never been as good as it was for men and it has only gotten worse but we try and get on with our lives as normally as possible just as millions of Egyptians do.


I would think twice about bringing family here.


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## txlstewart

You will want your daughter to go to CAC and your employer should pay the tuition. If that's the case, live in Maadi.


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## 500blue

MaidenScotland said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum
> 
> Your friends in Dubai are exactly there.. they do not know what it is like here.
> 
> Life here for foreign women has never been as good as it was for men and it has only gotten worse but we try and get on with our lives as normally as possible just as millions of Egyptians do.
> 
> 
> *I would think twice about bringing family here*.


OK so give me real info as to why - danger level? What?


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## MaidenScotland

500blue said:


> OK so give me real info as to why - danger level? What?




Have a look through the forum we do put our experiences there.. that will give you an idea of what we live through..
but at the end of the day the choice is yours.


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## canuck2010

Also, make sure to have a car and driver for your family if possible.


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## ArabianNights

Short and sweet: Don't do it. Please.


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## ArabianNights

canuck2010 said:


> Also, make sure to have a car and driver for your family if possible.


And a security guard.


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## Whitedesert

500blue said:


> OK so give me real info as to why - danger level? What?


 I agree it should be Maadi because that is where CAC is, however there is also a Canadian Int school, not too sure exactly where it is. New Cairo is outside Cairo on the North East (known as Tagamo by the locals, and the area you would be interested in is called the 5th Settlement. Personally I dont think it is unsafe, but then I am a South African and that means I see things quite differently to my 1st world peers on this forum. This is your decision, but if you expect 1st world circumstances, then maybe not. This is Africa, in the end of the day.


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## expatagogo

I wouldn't bring children into this, even before the revolution. Educating them with any sort of a decent education is going to be extremely expensive and the quality of all but a select few schools are horrible, no matter which curriculum they offer. Your wife and your daughter, because they're fair, will stand out, and you can expect that, at the very least, they will be endlessly stared at. You can't keep them inside all of the time; eventually they will have to go out.

You've said that you want to mix with both expats and Egyptians. Fair warning, though, until a person has been here for a while, it's difficult to know which social classes are which (other than the obvious dirt poor), and it does make a difference because finding an Egyptian friend that doesn't see you as an opportunity for either monetary or social mobility will be a challenge. Even then, it's hard to make a friend as a friend from "back home" would be.

A ten day vacation? Sure. To live? I'd have to say no.


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## Guest

I have lived in a few places in the world, even now i feel safer living in Egypt then my home town of south Dublin.
Also i am very happy with the school i have my two children in, the standards are very high, it costs 50kLE per child, equvliant education costs in the uk would be 12kSTG per child, other living costs in Egypt are less 
Maadi is accross the river from 6th October so a 45 minute commuit at 7:30 am, best to have a driver, Driving is a war zone, but i have never had an accident in 11 years big IsA..


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## canuck2010

I'd say Cairo is VERY tame compared to other African capitals. It really all has to do with where you live and what kind of package your company gives you. For sure, I'd only live in an expat area in Cairo (ie. Maadi saryiat, area around CAC in Degla), as the security situation is definitely deteriorating a little more every day. Even in Degla, last week there was an attempted robbery at a NTSB bank and now there are six security guards with ak47s posted in front, and this is on a main shopping street. 
Also, having a car and driver is essential.


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## Guest

where can i get an ak47?


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## Sonrisa

I would argue that the quality of the education my children get is comparable of that they would get back in Eurpe, we pay the fees out of our pocket and also compares to private education in Europe. 

Also a car and a driver arent esential, given that you live within walking distance to the school. We use taxis, I take them around Maadi all the time, with minimal problems and my husbands takes taxis between Maadi and Giza twice a day, with no mayor issues other than a little arguing about fares every once in a (long) whilse. 

We certainly don't require a security guard (but then again, I'm not blonde) 

Pluses of Living in Egypt: More family time together, Kids are thriving in a multicultural environment, weather, trips to the warm red sea every school holiday! (we are off to Sharm next week) as well as a large flat, with garden and bills paid for that we certainly wouldn't be able to afford back in our countries. 

Minuses: Stares, having to fight for the prices of everything, dirt, pollution. 

If you consider the Canadian School, I know of a Egyptian family that have their daughter there and speak very highly of it. It is located in New Cairo and offers bilingual education in French and English. 
Apart from the all mighty American School in Maadi, there are the British School in Rehab. Adrian has his teenagers in there I think, ask him, as well as Aklam that has her 10 ish daughter there I think. IF you decide for the british school, then you should live in Rehab, that its also very popular within the expat community
My kids go to the French lycee, in Maadi. 
THere is another British school in Maadi (near waadi degla) that is very good too.


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## expatagogo

farrell said:


> where can i get an ak47?


I suspect there's corner shops that sell them from behind the counter, somewhere.

The reality is it's not getting any better. I've kept my fingers off of the keyboard because I didn't want to be a Debbie Downer, but the reality is security is almost as good as gone.

I'm a big girl and I knew what I was getting into when I returned to Egypt in terms of the men and their antics, however even that has gotten much more ... assertive. I have learned that, in taxis, when they get to the inevitable "Citizenship?" topic, and they almost always do, if I lie and tell them I'm Canadian they tend to back off; evidently a visa to Canada doesn't hold as much allure as a visa to the U.S. (sorry Canadians, just my experience).

But the bigger concern is safety. It used to be that when Egyptians had differences of opinions or inheritance or property squabbles they would settle it with a shouting match and maybe - maybe - a fist fight, which usually ended up with families fighting families and they would sort out their issue and be done with it. Well, evidently not anymore.

The other night I thought the non-stop firecracker/fireworks that had been going on night after night after night was a little louder than usual. So, I peaked my head out my window and the first thing I noticed was there were no women outside. What was on the street were men with sticks on each end of my block, not letting traffic through. Why? Because downstairs, right downstairs, there were guns ablazing. The result? One woman dead (she was on her balcony) and a young girl kidnapped, both from my building.

One police officer broke free from the security of his buddies, I'm sure directing traffic because that's all I've ever seen them doing, and wheeled on up on a motors scooter, well after it was over, quite likely just to take a report.

My neighborhood is Egyptian, sure, but it's also rather swanky. Not an enclosed, gated community, but a nice neighborhood by anybody's standards.

As a result, I do not leave my flat after dark, for any reason. For the first time ever, and I've live all over the world and in some pretty sinister places, I'm carrying ... protection. I've made arrangements to leave for the first of July, IF it doesn't get any worse and, if it does, I'll be out of here before. "The experience" of living in Egypt isn't worth it.

Again, I would not bring children here.


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## aykalam

Sonrisa said:


> Apart from the all mighty American School in Maadi, there are the British School in Rehab. Adrian has his teenagers in there I think, ask him, as well as Aklam that has her 10 ish daughter there I think. IF you decide for the british school, then you should live in Rehab, that its also very popular within the expat community


We just live in Rehab but my daughter does not go to school here, nor do Adrian's kids. A friend of mine used to have her kids at the British School of Rehab, she was not impressed.

If OP is looking for a Canadian school there's also BCCIS in Shorouk, but that's of course further out http://www.bccis.net/index.php


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## Lanason

ArabianNights said:


> Short and sweet: Don't do it. Please.


I disagree - life in Cairo can still be good with the right place to live.
We have just had a fantastic three days all over Cairo with family visitors.

take the opportunity:clap2:


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## Lanason

Sonrisa said:


> . . . . . .
> Apart from the all mighty American School in Maadi, there are the British School in Rehab. Adrian has his teenagers in there I think, ask him, as well as Aklam that has her 10 ish daughter there I think. IF you decide for the british school, then you should live in Rehab, that its also very popular within the expat community
> My kids go to the French lycee, in Maadi.
> THere is another British school in Maadi (near waadi degla) that is very good too.


We live in Rehab but the kids don't got the the Rehab British school - they go to NCBIS in New Cairo.
Rehab is a great place to live if you work on the East side of town. Travelling distance is major issue


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## Musical

Lanason said:


> We live in Rehab but the kids don't got the the Rehab British school - they go to NCBIS in New Cairo.
> Rehab is a great place to live if you work on the East side of town. Travelling distance is major issue


NCBIS is a very good school with an excellent reputation - not cheap, though!


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## Lanason

Musical said:


> NCBIS is a very good school with an excellent reputation - not cheap, though!


that's true


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## 500blue

Thank you all for the information...it seems a lot who live there dont like it very much - why stay someplace so horrible?
I will be working out near 6October, are there no private schools or nice areas to live in over that way?
My job includes many things, a car and driver are amoung them...so driving will not be an issue.
Keep the info coming folks...


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## Sonrisa

Sorry re misunderstanding about the british schools. 
Personally I wouldn't enjoy living in 6 october, too isolated. No idea about schools. If you were coming by yourself, fine, but since you are with your family, I would advise you to live in Maadi and you get the nightmarish commute to work, but at least family is happy. I know of a few families that have this arrangement and they manage. 

Most of us are here for work. At the end of the day, one has to look at the positives and try to adapt to the negatives. Yes I go nowhere after dark too and gun battles are all too common nowadays, but other than that I have no fear during the day and I don't feel that I am "bringing children" into a horrible place.


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## Guest

There are some very good schools in 6th of October, and there are some fine compounds, but not sure if many expats live there, plenty of good shopping


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## 500blue

How many expats do you think live in each area of Cairo...for example Maadi, 6 of October, New Cairo etc..
Do the majority of you live in apartments or villas?
And what exactly do you mean when you use the term compound? Are these gated communities or something?
Thanks.


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## MaidenScotland

500blue said:


> How many expats do you think live in each area of Cairo...for example Maadi, 6 of October, New Cairo etc..
> Do the majority of you live in apartments or villas?
> And what exactly do you mean when you use the term compound? Are these gated communities or something?
> Thanks.




Lol I really do think you are asking the impossible ..I cannot think how any expat would possibly know these numbers..


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## 500blue

Well if you live in Maadi and you look out your door, what do you see? Do you see any expats? I am not looking for you to count - I am looking for opinions on numbers, basically this whole site is based on personal observations and opinions.

I would think you know if you live in an apartment or a villa?

I have read 50 or more pages of this site; some of the posters do not change their tune very much...even from 2010...


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## MaidenScotland

500blue said:


> Well if you live in Maadi and you look out your door, what do you see? Do you see any expats?
> 
> I would think you know if you live in an apartment or a villa?
> 
> I have read 50 or more pages of this site; some of the posters do not change their tune very much...even from 2010...




Of course we see expats .. but you asked for numbers and the only time I tend to see expats is when I go out to meet them in an expat haunt.

OK I am looking out my window.. can I see an expat... no, have I ever seen an exapt where I live. yes twice in the past 10 years and yet a poster on this forum lives in my area but I have never met him to my knowledge.

I know what I live in but I don't know what the majority of expats live in as I have no idea how many expats there are in any area..

I live in an apartment but that is because it is mainly apartments in this area.

In all my years in Cairo I have never bumped into anyone I know in a supermarket and I know a great deal of people, I did once meet a neighbour of mine from Scotland who was sitting in a cafe waiting to meet his tour guide as he was here for a 5 day holiday.


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## 500blue

Thanks for the info Maiden..belive it or not a lot of the information that I am getting from this forum is not very different then the information being supplied by the company attempting to recruit me; and that tells me they are being genuine.


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## MaidenScotland

500blue said:


> Thanks for the info Maiden..belive it or not a lot of the information that I am getting from this forum is not very different then the information being supplied by the company attempting to recruit me; and that tells me they are being genuine.




I actually have just realised, my whole building is full of expats but I presume you mean westerners? My immediate neighbour is Iraqui, I have Saudi, Kuwaiti, Russian, someone from central America, Egyptian, Omani...as neighbours,


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## Guest

500blue said:


> How many expats do you think live in each area of Cairo...for example Maadi, 6 of October, New Cairo etc..
> Do the majority of you live in apartments or villas?
> And what exactly do you mean when you use the term compound? Are these gated communities or something?
> Thanks.


Yes gated communities they call them villas but i would call them 3 bed semi, quite nice, secure safe from the road modst garden. Myself i feel the worst dangers in Egypt are from road traffic accidents, I have friends who rent a small villa (3 bed semi) while building there home cost 5000 le pm 6 october. Nice compound. 
Try to get a DOGE RAM or bigger!!!


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## aykalam

500blue said:


> How many expats do you think live in each area of Cairo...for example Maadi, 6 of October, New Cairo etc..
> Do the majority of you live in apartments or villas?
> And what exactly do you mean when you use the term compound? Are these gated communities or something?
> Thanks.


Many expats in New Cairo, which includes Kattameya, Tagammoa, Al Rehab. In Rehab there's a fair mix of flats/villas and where expats live depends (surprise, surprise) mainly on their income. i.e. not all foreigners are on an expat package. 

yes, a compound is a gated community, such as Rehab, Shorouk, etc.


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## 500blue

Thanks. IF I am enticed to take the position; I am assuiming I will be on what you call an expat package...it seems to be very good.

Am currently checking out schools, but very little information online...and yes well aware of the traffic chaos - have a car and driver however so is of little concern.
Not really looking for a bustling night life so the outer areas are probably ok.
Can an expat get permission for a fire arm?


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## hhaddad

500blue said:


> Well if you live in Maadi and you look out your door, what do you see? Do you see any expats? I am not looking for you to count - I am looking for opinions on numbers, basically this whole site is based on personal observations and opinions.
> 
> I would think you know if you live in an apartment or a villa?
> 
> I have read 50 or more pages of this site; some of the posters do not change their tune very much...even from 2010...


The reason we haven't changed our tune much is that things haven't changed in fact they've got worse.
When you say expats do you mean Europeans or are you thinkig in a broad spectrum in any case as Maiden said we don't see many expats on the street and don't encounter many on our trips out. The compounds are gated areas with "security guards" but that doesn't stop anyone from coming in.

Iwould say most expats live in flats or in a condo.


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## Sonrisa

If you live in Maadi, avoid villas or Ground Floor. Many choose top floor apartments, with terraces on the top. I have some really nice, with private swimming pool and barbacue area, on the roof top. 

THere are many expats in Maadi and Degla, I cross several when I walk, many blondes, think of it like a expat village, everyone walks in the street and we use the same supermarkets.


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## txlstewart

Sonrisa said:


> If you live in Maadi, avoid villas or Ground Floor. Many choose top floor apartments, with terraces on the top. I have some really nice, with private swimming pool and barbacue area, on the roof top.
> 
> THere are many expats in Maadi and Degla, I cross several when I walk, many blondes, think of it like a expat village, everyone walks in the street and we use the same supermarkets.


Maadi Degla is nice because you can find a wide variety of food choices. Sometimes, if you're homesick for familiar food, you can go to the Ace (membership club) Club or the BCA--and get pork! The supermarkets also tend to carry brands you may be familiar with. You still have the opportunity to have friends that are Egyptian as well as many from different countries. 

I have met a lot of great people from many countries, which is an added bonus! Degla is laid out in a way that makes it easy to walk around (daylight only for me) and do your shopping, etc. There is a lot of mature landscaping about, making it more appealing to some. 

Old Maadi (where many expats live) consists of Suryat and Degla. There are organized sports leagues for both adults and kids, and if your family moves here, it would be ideal for your daughter. Some of the newer places are very nice, but sometimes it's hard to feel a part of the community there.

I would suggest that you investigate the various parts of town before making a long-term lease somewhere (unless you don't mind breaking it!).

Best of luck with your decision!


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## canuck2010

Another benefit of living high up in an apartment, no rats, bugs, or stray cats...


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## Sonrisa

Sonrisa said:


> I have some really nice, with private swimming pool and barbacue area, on the roof top. .


Sorry, I meant to type "I have *SEEN* some really nice...."


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## CAIRODEMON

500blue said:


> Thank you all for the information...it seems a lot who live there dont like it very much - why stay someplace so horrible?
> I will be working out near 6October, are there no private schools or nice areas to live in over that way?
> My job includes many things, a car and driver are amoung them...so driving will not be an issue.
> Keep the info coming folks...


As far as I can tell, nobody is saying that it is horrible, the jist of this thread and indeed many others is that it is a worse place to live now then it was just over a year ago. I stay here, although I no longer like the place very much, precisely because I AM here. I have a well paid job, my family are well established and we live quite comfortably. To move would be a logistical mountain which I would rather not climb. In addition it is only fair to add that the bulk of my staff and colleagues are really pleasant people.

Having said that would I move here now if I was gainfully employed in another country, probably not. 

In times gone by, he chance to live and work in Cairo was one of the plus points in any job package, now I would rate it as at best neutral, dependant upon the standard of living that your company is prepared to provide. Probably the biggest issue that you need to consider is that of personal security, both for yourself and, in my opinion more importantly, your family. This was a pretty safe place to be, as long as you were not in a motor vehicle, although not quite as safe as some people claimed. It is no longer as safe, but would still compare favourably with many European capitals. Put simply, it was never Singapore, but it is not yet Lagos.

You really need to come here and see it and experience it. Not for a couple of days, but for at least two weeks. Try and bring the family with you, check out where you are likely to be living and where your child will be going to school (I agree about NCBIS). Do not underestimate the traffic issue, I believe that you are a little blase about that, just because you have a driver it does not mean thar a daily commute of between an hour and an hour and a half (each way) is any fun.

It's your call, obviously this job must be tempting or you would not have bothered asking but in my opinion it would need to be very good indeed for you to come here.


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## expatagogo

Rise in crime intensifies unease in once-safe Egypt

Rise in crime intensifies unease in once-safe Egypt - latimes.com

"Egypt has traditionally been safer than many Western countries, but recent images have turned the nightly news into a catalog of felonies and funerals."


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## GM1

There is a British International school in 6th of October: Welcome :: BISC


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## hhaddad

expatagogo said:


> Rise in crime intensifies unease in once-safe Egypt
> 
> Rise in crime intensifies unease in once-safe Egypt - latimes.com
> 
> "Egypt has traditionally been safer than many Western countries, but recent images have turned the nightly news into a catalog of felonies and funerals."


For once this is told as it is it's not media hype it's what we're seeing and hearing daily now.


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## hurghadapat

canuck2010 said:


> Another benefit of living high up in an apartment, no rats, bugs, or stray cats...


Lol....don't kid yourself...rats are good climbers.I have a friend who lives on the fourth floor and has a nightly visit from a one that sits on one of her chairs on her balcony.


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## Sonrisa

I'm surprised there are rats at all, surely the thousands of stray cats in the streets will take good care of them?


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## hhaddad

Sonrisa said:


> I'm surprised there are rats at all, surely the thousands of stray cats in the streets will take good care of them?


No the cats have plenty to eat without getting stressed out chasing a rat.


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## aykalam

Sonrisa said:


> I'm surprised there are rats at all, surely the thousands of stray cats in the streets will take good care of them?


there is too much rubbish everywhere, why bother hunting


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## Guest

schools 

List of schools in Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

6th of October City & Sheikh Zayed City

i have no idea about any of them,


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## 500blue

I am now looking at getting a glimpse of Egypt by way of a 6 to 8 week contract by the employer. I am awaiting the details but seems to be exactly what I may need to make a sure decision, being able to check it out first hand.
As each of us are different so our our opinions.
May be in Egypt sometime in the future.
Thanks for all your replys...NEVER thought about rats or "creepy crawlies" - lol but it is what it is I suppose...


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