# US > UK Proposed Civil Partnership visa



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Hello, I'm new here and have a few "worried" questions....

My partner and I met online through a community website for which we both still work. Although we 'met' online in 2005, we didn't start talking daily and continually on Skype until mid 2009, which led into a full relationship in 2010. It is now killing us being apart and as we're both in our later years we don't want to waste more years apart. However, we want to make sure we have all the money we need for visas, flights, legal fees if we use a solicitor, and civil partnership arrangements in the UK (our preferred choice).

*Our first problem - evidence: will we have enough? *

Because we chat on Skype video all day and all night, we have precious little in way of emails. We have Skype chat before we used video (and during - we can't always video-chat during work hours) but that copied to a Word document spans over 4000 pages(!) for just 12 of the 18 or so months. Most of our communicating has been in video so we have nothing really to 'show' other than a few emails from me before we both had webcams. Skype is full of "call ended - duration 9 hours blah blah" showing that we actually spend all day and evening together on video chat (she takes a laptop to work and I work from home) so we 'live' AND work together every single day. Will Skype evidence showing the continual and long calls help? We've just spent 3 days 'apart' in the whole year where we both gritted our teeth and went to visit parents with no internet! Other than that, we're on video with each other every single day from rise until bed! Trouble is: call durations say nothing about the TYPE of call so I don't know whether it is enough to be considered as proof.

We DO have a raft of video (Windows Media) files we used to send each other daily (before we had headsets and privacy), but the supporting guidance clearly stipulates "no DVDs or video cassettes". A pity, because we talked so much through the evolving of our relationship through these early videos. I guess I could screenshot the folder of them all - the thumbnails clearly show my partner's face, as mine do to her, but I can't help feeling this is a goldmine of evidence we simply cannot use.


*Time together: is it enough?*

My partner is an accountant and the biggest restriction on her being able to spend time here has been her inability to take more than a week or so off at a time. Therefore, we've spent just over four weeks in total together in the last 12 months - always in the UK as that is the cheaper option for us (I have a home to stay in, but whippets to foster out expensively if I travel to the US - and my partner is still going through divorce and so I would not have been able to stay with her without us paying for accommodation there). Is 4 weeks going to be enough? Passports, flight tickets as evidence, some receipts of outings, but that's all.

Regrettably, we only have three photographs of us together - all on the one occasion in London when we met a mutual friend who took photos. Stupid of us, utterly stupid - but when she's been here we've been largely alone together and it never occurred to us to 'gather evidence'. My sister came to stay with us during my partner's last visit and said she would help 'testify' with a supporting letter if that would help (not sure it would), but we have just those three photos of what is clearly just one occasion.

My partner is currently shipping personal effects over from the US: things she wishes to keep and not lose (once her divorce is through she has to leave her home and intends not to contest but just leave everything behind). My house has clothes of hers, photos, ornaments, kitchen stuff she loves and loads of jewellery items that are sentimental to her. Is this any use as evidence in some way? I guess not because anyone can ship stuff for the sake of appearance.


*Finances: do we have enough to count?*

We both work but neither of us has significant savings. I underwent a very expensive dissolution at the beginning of the year, and have only just stopped paying for all that. My partner was made redundant at the beginning of the year and has only just acquired another so her money was depleted too. We've estimated that we'll need around £6000 for applications, flights etc and we're on course to have this by end November, but no evidence of saving pots of money between us in the months leading up to application. Will my employment status (below) help negate the bad impact of little savings?

I'm in reliable employment and earn around £40,000 a year before taxes. I own my own (mortgaged) 1-bed house (only me in it - so there is no doubt about where my partner will be sleeping at least!). After all bills are paid I have around £400 a month spare which I _think_ just about scrapes the minimum limits I've seen mentioned (I have no loans, credit card payments or debts outstanding besides mortgage). From the site we both support, we each make an additional $500 a month but I've never counted it in the earnings equation because it's merely hobby income that could stop at any time (and has done in the past). If we DO count it (the current amount should be guaranteed now for a few months), then we'll have around £1000 a month after bills and outgoings. I also take on occasional freelance work and am due a single payment of £4500 from that imminently, but this work is sporadic at best so that's why I only counted my full-time salary. My partner does want to work once legally able, but will need to take UK-based accountancy accreditation first so we can only count my money for now. I've never needed to turn to public funds thankfully and was able to support a non-working ex for many years. Will this help?

We hold a joint current account which pays out all the bills etc, but there's not been a lot spare due to the aforementioned circumstances (we also have a joint UK-based savings account and a joint US checking account). We've both had great difficulty regulating payments into the UK account because of stupid transaction restrictions and so she usually sends money by Paypal transfers. Finances will be much better from this point on now my divorce is settled, but we hope to apply soon, and we don't have a lengthy history of funds so far so I'm wondering if my secure 'earnings potential' is enough.


We're both worried sick that we don't have enough evidence. We cannot stand being so far apart yet we know we cannot afford to make mistakes in our application. We approached one of the top immigration layers and he quoted a handsome £1800 for the entire process (on top of visa costs of course) - BUT is it £1800 well spent? If not paying £1800 means screwing up and losing our only chance to be together, I could not live with myself, but it also seems to be a lot of money - hence my long (sorry!) enquiry here.

Thanks in advance for any input.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2011)

My husband and I (both in our mid-fifties now) met online in a current events discussion forum (Oct 2008). I'd been divorced since 1999, kids all grown, and in something of the same financial situation as your partner. My husband had never married and had retired while we were still just forum buddies.

We started private messaging, then private emailing in 09, and by early 2010 we up to over a hundred emails a day, and a few telephone calls. Long story short, in spring of 2010 we realised we were falling in love, knew it by July of 10, and I came over to meet him f2f in mid-August 2010 to see if we could share one small Scottish bathroom-you'll appreciate what that means because you write that you're both older and have been in a long term relationship before.

By October 10 we knew we could make it as a couple, and decided for us the best option was to marry, which we did in Jan 2011. Because of the rules, I returned to the US soon after the wedding and applied for the spouse settlement visa. It was granted, and I'm back home with my husband in Scotland.

Because he is retired, he has an pension; I retired from a government position but my pension is so small it was hardly worth mentioning-I won't see anything Social Security wise until I'm 65 (and there are rumours the US is going to raise that age).

He has a fair bit saved and I had a bit (eaten up by the cost of returning to the US for the visa-grrrrrr!); he owns our house outright, and we live very frugally-no car, no dependents to support, I sew a lot of our clothing and household linens from repurposed cloth, we have a fair sized veg patch in our back garden...our expenses are not high even with council tax, Internet, electric. 

When I returned to the US to apply for the settlement visa, I had the same dilemma regarding evidence of a 'real' relationship-a couple of snail mail letters, a ton of emails, the phone bills-showing the number called and the frequency/duration of the calls, and three photos from our wedding.

I printed out the first private message and private emails we exchanged, then one or two for the rest of the months before we met f2f. It was quite a stack, about two inches thick just in the emails. 

Apparently what I sent regarding communications between us was sufficient-I did get the visa and am in the UK with my husband. I followed the supporting documents suggestion list, as well as the required documents (marriage license, bank statements, sponsor form and letter, etc) on the UKBA website page regarding my type of visa.

It's not hopeless, as you can see from my experience. The UKBA will factor in all of the variables according to your unique situation (location, cost of living, etc) and make a determination based on their review of your application and supporting documents.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I haven't got time now for a detailed reply, but looking through it seems you don't have much to worry about.

Your evidence of relationship appears sufficient. Just print out representative evidence of online conversation, mails etc, and indicate frequency (copies of phone bills etc).

Your record of personal visits and meetings seem ok too. You can always attach testimonies from friends and relatives about your deepening relationship and commitment.

As for your finance, the crucial thing is as the visa sponsor, you are in steady employment earning good money in UK, and own a suitable property. Don't worry too much about available savings. Whatever you can club together, something in the order of £6000, will be enough. Plus willingness and possibility of a job in UK for your partner. Perhaps enclose a job vacancy to which she can apply. You can always line up a relative or friend willing to support you when needed. A letter of sponsorship can be attached.

Finally, don't pay anyone for help. £1800 is outrageous. Keep that money in your pot as part of your financial evidence instead.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Just to be clear. Are you same sex partners? The civil partnership visa is for same sex partners only.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your input. I REALLY appreciate this because we've both been worried (and I'm laughing about sharing that 'one small bathroom' from AnAmericanInScotland)...

Yes, we're same-sex partners (sorry - I should have clarified that).

This is all reassuring. I found the 'required documents' list but haven't yet seen any suggested documents set out in addition to this yet, so I appreciate the suggestions. I've trawled lots of forums courtesy of Google but there seems to be a lot of inaccurate info ("oh yes, you can work when you have a fiancee visa" for example) and a lot of scaremongering about it all falling down on evidence to support a genuine relationship - and so it's been hard to ascertain what is really needed.

Although actually applying for jobs in advance might be difficult (she couldn't in fairness say when she could take up the job because it depends on how soon we can become civil partners and then apply for the extended 2-year visa that allows working) she could absolutely find jobs that she'd be qualified to do. She DOES need to retrain for UK accreditation as accounting policy and laws will be a fair bit different here, but at the same time she said she'd take ANY work (I'd be quite happy to support her but she WANTS to work).

There is mention that we need to prove our intent to marry. Does that mean we must book a firm date with the Registry Office before we apply for the fiancee visa (which I fear would need both of us present and that would eat a sizeable chunk out of our savings attempts), or is it good enough to give assurance that we DO want to become civil partners as soon as we can in that first 6 months?

One more question: on the fiancee visa, after marrying, can the extended visa be applied for from the UK (ie she would not have to return to the US for it)?

This is I think what we'll have:

Supporting letter from sister
Supporting letter from the friend we spent time with in London (and who took the photos)
Our passports (partner's shows visits to UK; mine only shows nationality etc)
The three photos we have
Extracts from Skype history and emails to support, and to show duration of time we spend on calls
Documents to substantiate my income, and the house I own
Papers showing the additional 'hobby income' we each both earn.
Plus all the required stuff like my sponsor letter (in this I could mention I was able to support my ex who never worked in all the time we were together)
Example jobs my partner would be applying for
Possibly employer references/resume and a declaration of her eagerness to work
Bank statements though this won't show a lot of past wealth, but we do have three accounts in joint names at least
Hopefully by that point £5000-£6000 in savings.

Any other 'evidence' suggestions?


Many thanks once again. I really do appreciate the help.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> Thank you all so much for your input. I REALLY appreciate this because we've both been worried (and I'm laughing about sharing that 'one small bathroom' from AnAmericanInScotland)...
> 
> Yes, we're same-sex partners (sorry - I should have clarified that).
> 
> ...


Look at http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/docs/1903073/supportingdocssettlement
Maintenance & Accommodation (MAA).

As for intention to enter civil partnership (marriage is only for heterosexual couples in UK), you don't need a firm date but a provisional date with the registrar, venue for reception and so on. Show some paperwork of initial contacts with those people.

Further leave to remain (FLR) valid 2 years can be applied in UK following your civil partnership but within the 6 months' validity of your visa.

You only need to supply a photocopy of the personal details page of your British passport (UKBA do have access to your passport details electronically). 

Just look at the two links I've given above.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks very much indeed - and especially for the links.

It looks like we could have a real chance for things to work out (I meet the requirements for sponsorship and maintenance it seems, and I feel heaps better about it). We talked tonight about the solicitor fees and think now that it would be crazy to spend £1800 unless we really need to (it would be better to save a lawyer for the horrid possibility that it all goes wrong and we need to appeal). 

The advice here has been invaluable - thanks everyone.


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