# Form 3520



## Omater

My apologies if this has has ready been addressed, but I cannot find any information about date specific deadlines for filing Form 3520. I received an email from our banker that states:

To assist you with this US Tax reporting, we are also attaching your 2011 Cdn account information (including TFSA and RSPs) should you be required to complete any of the forms. 
We have included: 
for Form 3520/ Form 3520 A (deadline to file is March 15) 

Is this true?? March 15? One accountant I spoke to said yes, another said no. I'm seriously confused. (But what else is new?) :confused2:

Thanks!!


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## Bevdeforges

As I understand it, it's the form 3520A that is due March 15th. That's because it's the form for the trust itself to report its results, whereas the form 3520 is the form for the person with a "financial interest" in the trust to show that they are correctly reporting the results of the trust in their own tax returns. So the 3520 is due with your tax returns (i.e. april 15th - though those filing from overseas normally have an automatic extension to June 15th).
Cheers,
Bev


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## Phil_expat

this seem to be for a trust not a bank account (savings) am I right?


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## byline

Phil_expat said:


> this seem to be for a trust not a bank account (savings) am I right?


My understanding is that the IRS treats tax-free savings accounts as foreign trusts, and so one must fill out Forms 3520-A and 3520 in order to report them.


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## Bevdeforges

Phil_expat said:


> this seem to be for a trust not a bank account (savings) am I right?


Apparently there are some tax advisers (in Canada?) who contend that a particular type of tax-free or tax deferred savings account "must" be treated as a "foreign trust."

I have two tax-free (for France) accounts that I simply declare like ordinary savings accounts - declare the interest paid as if it were taxable. Because of the amounts involved, I wind up paying no US taxes on the interest and I have no intention of treating them like trusts.

There may be something in the Canadian tax-free accounts that makes the treatment different, but if you have a bank savings account, I'd just declare it like a regular savings account and let the IRS get back to you if they have a problem with that. (The important thing is to declare it - and any income/interest from the account.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## byline

For Form 3520-A, do I fill out Page 4? There is no U.S. beneficiary for my TFSA.

Also, on Line 9 of Form 3520-A, they ask for gross value of the trust. Is that the maximum balance in my TFSA for 2011?


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## byline

I got my questions answered. No, I don't fill out Page 4, and for gross value I should enter the year-end balance. Hopefully this will help someone else!


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## Omater

*Foreign Trust*

I received a newsletter written for American clients from RBC Dominion that included this paragraph:



> For Canadian tax purposes, investment income earned in a TFSA is not taxable. However, for U.S. tax purposes, U.S. citizens are taxed on income earned in a TFSA. Also, since TFSAs are set up primarily as trusts, the U.S. foreign grantor trust rules apply. A U.S. citizen may be able to offset U.S. income tax on the investment income if they have adequate excess foreign tax credits related to passive income. Since a TFSA is a foreign trust, additional U.S. reporting on Forms 3520-A and 3520 is required. This additional reporting will likely result in additional tax advisor fees.


Thanks for the help, Bev. It seems that I put out one fire and something else pops up in it's place!


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## byline

Re: additional tax advisor fees, it's possible, but I did manage to put 3520-A together _almost_ all by myself, and I've slogged through the mess that is 3520, all to arrive at 0 tax on about $500 worth of interest over a three-year period. *sigh*


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## Omater

byline said:


> Re: additional tax advisor fees, it's possible, but I did manage to put 3520-A together _almost_ all by myself, and I've slogged through the mess that is 3520, all to arrive at 0 tax on about $500 worth of interest over a three-year period. *sigh*


I won't owe taxes either, but it is daunting to have to worry about another form on a different due date. I am not getting a return call from my accountant and I have to go out of town tomorrow. 

Would you mind telling me what sections of 3520A you used to report your TFSA's?

Thanks!


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## byline

Omater said:


> I won't owe taxes either, but it is daunting to have to worry about another form on a different due date. I am not getting a return call from my accountant and I have to go out of town tomorrow.
> 
> Would you mind telling me what sections of 3520A you used to report your TFSA's?
> 
> Thanks!


I only have one TFSA (thank heavens ... and it's going to be gone by June). I filled out the first three pages of 3520A; page 4 does not apply to my situation. On page 2, there was nothing for me to report but interest (lines 1, 8, 16 and 17), cash assets (balance at the beginning of the year, then year-end balance). On page 3, it's back to interest, which is taxable, so that goes on line 1a. All of this is to be reported in U.S. funds. Form 3520A was fairly simple, compared with 3520. I sent a draft of 3520 to my accountant to see if I filled it out correctly. It's a real head-scratcher.

And yes, it does indeed add to the ongoing stress of this situation, to have yet _another_ form thrown at us (actually, 3520 seems to require _three_ forms). Makes you wonder when it will end.


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## Countachqv

old but worthwhile thread. I have a question on the whole issue. I inherited real estate, cash and stock from my parents in France. In eed to fill out 3520 right. I rapatriatedsome money in the US, sold some stock in France and will repatriate the rest of the stock to my USA account? 
I am left with French bank account a french saving and a french brokerage account in 2013 plus the real estate piece. 

I think I need to fill out 3520 right? part 4? Do I need to fill out part 3 since I got cash back in the USA?


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