# Is that 'taxi' legal?



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

There are so many cowboy 'taxis' offering cheap airport runs & similar - but it's been difficult to know if they really are legal.


Now, vehicles of up to nine seats (then they are classed as a minubus with different regulations) which are licenced to carry paying passengers, will have a blue front licence plate. They have one year in which to comply.


I reckon it's in their interest to do so rapidly - licence plates don't cost a fortune, after all! 


Maybe this will finally put a stop to the potentially dangerous, illegal, unlicensed & uninsured ''taxis'. 

Other Major Changes to Traffic Law â€“ Summer 2018 | N332.es - Driving In Spain


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

Yes I agree. We were caught out in Rome years ago outside Termini station when we were very green and trusted people.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

A mate of mine does "taxi" runs to the airport. He is recommended by customers and people are happy to pay him the vastly reduced rate. It's up to them if they take the known risk.

Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

maureensco said:


> Yes I agree. We were caught out in Rome years ago outside Termini station when we were very green and trusted people.





tebo53 said:


> A mate of mine does "taxi" runs to the airport. He is recommended by customers and people are happy to pay him the vastly reduced rate. It's up to them if they take the known risk.
> 
> Steve


All well & good until something goes wrong. Of course he charges less. He doesn't fork out for the license & insurance.

He's likely working without paying tax & autónomo fees, too. 

Why do people suddenly think something is OK here, when they'd never dream of doing the same 'back home'. 

They'd probably be the first to complain about benefit cheats & so on.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> All well & good until something goes wrong. Of course he charges less. He doesn't fork out for the license & insurance.
> 
> He's likely working without paying tax & autónomo fees, too.
> 
> ...


Correct but he doesn't complain about anything as he also is living "under the radar"

The thing is that all his customers know very well he's not a legal taxi so they are just as bad really for encouraging that sort of practice 

Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> Correct but he doesn't complain about anything as he also is living "under the radar"
> 
> The thing is that all his customers know very well he's not a legal taxi so they are just as bad really for encouraging that sort of practice
> 
> Steve


I agree - they are just as bad as he is.

They won't be the ones who have their car confiscated though (yes that does happen)- but they might be the ones left at the side of the road if/when it comes home to roost.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Could of picked a different colour. There are already blue plates in circulation.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I agree - they are just as bad as he is.
> 
> They won't be the ones who have their car confiscated though (yes that does happen)- but they might be the ones left at the side of the road if/when it comes home to roost.


That old saying "You pays your money........."

Steve


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

So called illegal taxi’s are difficult for the authorities to control. I call an illegal taxi here in Spain, the UK and anywhere else an unlicensed vehicle and driver out on the road touting for fares.

I do not see how a fully legal private car taking a friend or neighbour to the airport is breaking the law, even if they receive payment to cover fuel and running costs.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> So called illegal taxi’s are difficult for the authorities to control. I call an illegal taxi here in Spain, the UK and anywhere else an unlicensed vehicle and driver out on the road touting for fares.
> 
> I do not see how a fully legal private car taking a friend or neighbour to the airport is breaking the law, even if they receive payment to cover fuel and running costs.


That's what the blue license plate is for - it easily identifies those who are licensed to take paying customers.

At Alicante & other airports, illegal 'taxis' have been caught even without the blue license plate. 

Police & legal drivers record number plates. If someone is frequently collecting & dropping off, the police pull them, & the onus is on the driver to prove that he ISN'T charging. 

They advertise on FB groups too, & get caught that way, although again, that's often due to legal workers reporting them. 

Not just taxi drivers, of course.


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> That's what the blue license plate is for - it easily identifies those who are licensed to take paying customers.
> 
> At Alicante & other airports, illegal 'taxis' have been caught even without the blue license plate.
> 
> ...


But how do you categorize a paying customer. Is it legal or not to reimburse a friend his petrol money to take you to the airport?

How many visits to the airport is classed as frequently. Twice a year, 6 times a year, once a month, once a week?

Guilty until proven innocent. How can anyone prove they are not charging?lane:


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> But how do you categorize a paying customer. Is it legal or not to reimburse a friend his petrol money to take you to the airport?
> 
> How many visits to the airport is classed as frequently. Twice a year, 6 times a year, once a month, once a week?
> 
> Guilty until proven innocent. How can anyone prove they are not charging?lane:


I've made at least 7 pick-ups and as many drop-offs at Alicante this year. If I were to be asked to prove I wasn't charging (and I wasn't) I would be able to pull out my mobile and show email/whatsapp trails of me discussing the transport, and it would be clear from those conversations that they are friends and or family. Not a problem.

A couple of times friends have chosen to take a taxi back and all they have is basic contact on FB Messenger with the driver, and one topic of conversation. Not a problem, the driver was fully legal.

One set of friends once used a driver to get them from Alicante to Benidorm. He was recommended by the guy who booked their accommodation. On arrival his "taxi" (umarked mini bus) was surrounded by 3 regular Benidorm taxis who got him out of the car and started asking questions, and called the police over. He wriggled out of it and I don't remember how, but he was lucky because he was illegal.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Horlics said:


> I've made at least 7 pick-ups and as many drop-offs at Alicante this year. If I were to be asked to prove I wasn't charging (and I wasn't) I would be able to pull out my mobile and show email/whatsapp trails of me discussing the transport, and it would be clear from those conversations that they are friends and or family. Not a problem.
> 
> A couple of times friends have chosen to take a taxi back and all they have is basic contact on FB Messenger with the driver, and one topic of conversation. Not a problem, the driver was fully legal.
> 
> One set of friends once used a driver to get them from Alicante to Benidorm. He was recommended by the guy who booked their accommodation. On arrival his "taxi" (umarked mini bus) was surrounded by 3 regular Benidorm taxis who got him out of the car and started asking questions, and called the police over. He wriggled out of it and I don't remember how, but he was lucky because he was illegal.


If you're genuinely friends or family, then as you say, it should be easy to prove it, especially with social media.


That minibus driver was lucky - & his passengers even luckier that there wasn't an accident - then they'd regret breaking the law, since there'd be no insurance. 


Tbh that's what bothers me most - the lack of suitable insurance.


The new numberplates should solve this though.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

The taxi drivers at Malaga are very keen. They have at least one man as a lookout for illegals. Not surprised they get angry when you see the long queue of official taxis. We knew someone who did it some years ago for a huge apartment block in Calahonda. He was going to the airport most days. One day he was beaten up in a Calahonda car park. The taxis surrounded his car and told the couple of passengers to get out.

A lot of tourists are not aware of the issues, they book a villa and are often offered the option of transport being arranged.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Isobella said:


> The taxi drivers at Malaga are very keen. They have at least one man as a lookout for illegals. Not surprised they get angry when you see the long queue of official taxis. We knew someone who did it some years ago for a huge apartment block in Calahonda. He was going to the airport most days. One day he was beaten up in a Calahonda car park. The taxis surrounded his car and told the couple of passengers to get out.
> 
> *A lot of tourists are not aware of the issues, they book a villa and are often offered the option of transport being arranged*.


And that's the saddest part of it all. Many have no idea that the 'taxi' is just a mate of the villa owner & the villa owner is probably getting a kickback too. 

They're keen at Alicante airport too.


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

I think the word ‘TAXI’ is being slightly misused on this thread. A fully legal licensed taxi is clearly visible with plates, a metre and for public hire.

How can the authorities possibly expect the 1,000s of private cars a day dropping off at the airport prove they are not charging? This is just ridiculous and I don’t understand what social media and ‘fb’ football has to do with anything.

When it comes to insurance in Spain, it is the car that is insured not just the owner driver that’s why many cars have 4 seats.

What about the holiday rental guy who includes a free airport pick up and return within the price of his holiday rental. How is his mate Desperate Dan going to prove he is not charging Burt & Betty who he has never seen in his life before? And Burt & Betty know full well it’s the property owners mate as all of them do. The owner said I can organise a lift within the deal not a licenced taxi.


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## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> I think the word ‘TAXI’ is being slightly misused on this thread. A fully legal licensed taxi is clearly visible with plates, a metre and for public hire.
> 
> How can the authorities possibly expect the 1,000s of private cars a day dropping off at the airport prove they are not charging? This is just ridiculous and I don’t understand what social media and ‘fb’ football has to do with anything.
> 
> ...


FB is facebook
The car is insured for private motoring not for business motoring. You hit someone, you get hit by someone. Insurance is not valid. And the insurance companies WILL find out when you try and claim your medical expenses or car repair - or the other party tries to do exactly the same


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> I think the word ‘TAXI’ is being slightly misused on this thread. A fully legal licensed taxi is clearly visible with plates, a metre and for public hire.
> 
> How can the authorities possibly expect the 1,000s of private cars a day dropping off at the airport prove they are not charging? This is just ridiculous and I don’t understand what social media and ‘fb’ football has to do with anything.
> 
> ...


If there's no private hire licence & no insurance to carry paying customers, then they are breaking the law. It's that simple. It's a different licence & different insurance to that for driving your own car.

I did use 'taxi' in inverted commas - there are other kinds of legal private hire which don't have 'taxi' on them. These also will have blue plates. 

If Desperate Dan is questioned, & can't prove that they are actually friends or related, & that he isn't charging them - then he will have a problem.


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

uk03878 said:


> FB is facebook
> The car is insured for private motoring not for business motoring. You hit someone, you get hit by someone. Insurance is not valid. And the insurance companies WILL find out when you try and claim your medical expenses or car repair - or the other party tries to do exactly the same


Taking non paying passengers to the airport is private motoring that’s why cars have seats.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> Taking non paying passengers to the airport is private motoring that’s why cars have seats.


which isn't what we are discussing here

we're discussing those who ARE charging & using the car for business


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> which isn't what we are discussing here
> 
> we're discussing those who ARE charging & using the car for business



The whole topic is riddled with grey areas. Yes impersonating a public legal licensed taxi is clearly illegal. But sorting out Jack the lad from genuine airport drop offs is almost impossible. Don’t forget Jack the lad never forced anyone to get in his car or pretended to be a licensed taxi. 

The thread title is ''Is that 'taxi' legal?''


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> The whole topic is riddled with grey areas. Yes impersonating a public legal licensed taxi is clearly illegal. But sorting out Jack the lad from genuine airport drop offs is almost impossible. Don’t forget Jack the lad never forced anyone to get in his car or pretended to be a licensed taxi.


Not impossible - they sieze cars & fine people now.

The blue number plates will make it easier. Licenced & insured to carry paying passengers - blue plate.


No blue plate - not licenced. 

....and it really doesn't matter if the passengers are complicit - it's still illegal


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Maybe they'll only allow TRUE taxis at the front of the airport.

All other drop-offs will have to happen elsewhere or in the car park


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

snikpoh said:


> Maybe they'll only allow TRUE taxis at the front of the airport.
> 
> All other drop-offs will have to happen elsewhere or in the car park


:clap2::clap2:

Now that’s the first sensible post for a while. They did this at every UK airport after the Glasgow airport terrorists drove through the glass entrance doors.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Maybe they'll only allow TRUE taxis at the front of the airport.
> 
> All other drop-offs will have to happen elsewhere or in the car park


Or taxis & other vehicles licensed to carry paying passengers - & non-business elsewhere.

But this isn't only about airports, of course.


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> Or taxis & other vehicles licensed to carry paying passengers - & non-business elsewhere.
> 
> But this isn't only about airports, of course.


:clap2::clap2:

True but airports are the main grievance of the licensed taxi drivers. At least we are now getting some positive and constructive comments instead of ignoring posters questions. Maybe the authorities should organise a drop off and pick up 5 miles away with a free shuttle buses. This would free up long term parking and maybe make it cheaper.

Also any popular places like town centres and attractions should be like London and have a congestion charge. Hospitals could also have a shuttle bus service with wheelchair facilities.

There are other ways but I won't mention at the moment.:spit:


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## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> :clap2::clap2:
> 
> Now that’s the first sensible post for a while. They did this at every UK airport after the Glasgow airport terrorists drove through the glass entrance doors.


Anybody can express drop off at Stansted


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Esmeralda Dizon said:


> :clap2::clap2:
> 
> True but airports are the main grievance of the licensed taxi drivers. At least we are now getting some positive and constructive comments instead of ignoring posters questions. Maybe the authorities should organise a drop off and pick up 5 miles away with a free shuttle buses. This would free up long term parking and maybe make it cheaper.
> 
> ...


Not around here - the local taxi drivers are furious with all the unlicensed cowboys who do local runs around the villages - & they report them. There was also a recent nationwide taxi driver strike against Uber & similar. Airports are a small part of the problem. 


If you feel you have solutions, perhaps suggest them to the powers that be.

All I'm doing is sharing a change in the law which I believe to be a useful change - I don't claim to have any answers. 

I do have an understanding of the reasons behind this law change though.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

"Now that’s the first sensible post for a while"

You know, it's great having someone who grades posts. Helps us separate the wheat, and all that.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> All other drop-offs will have to happen elsewhere or in the car park


And that is exactly what happens now. My friend who i mentioned earlier drops all his "customers" in the nearest car park to the airport entrance doors. He has been doing this for years and never been challenged. His customers know what the score is.

Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> And that is exactly what happens now. My friend who i mentioned earlier drops all his "customers" in the nearest car park to the airport entrance doors. He has been doing this for years and never been challenged. His customers know what the score is.
> 
> Steve


ah well, best laid plans & all that...


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## Esmeralda Dizon (Jul 19, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> Not around here - the local taxi drivers are furious with all the unlicensed cowboys who do local runs around the villages - & they report them. There was also a recent nationwide taxi driver strike against Uber & similar. Airports are a small part of the problem.
> 
> 
> If you feel you have solutions, perhaps suggest them to the powers that be.
> ...


As with many things where the authorities are unable to effectively enforce the law it boils down to the old ‘crime and punishment’ situation. Clearly some people are passionate about stamping out these unlicensed cowboys but need to put their money where their mouth is.

I worked in Saudi Arabia for a few years and they had one of the smallest police forces per population. There were no unlicensed cowboy taxis there, in fact you could walk around with a €1,000 hanging out of your back pocket. Their answer was if you were caught stealing you had your hand chopped off, if an unlicensed cowboy was caught they would chop of his foot so he could not drive, and even today caught with drugs is head off in public on Friday at the market square.

Clearly we need to be civilised about unlicensed cowboys or anyone who cannot prove beyond doubt that they are not being paid, they should have their car destroyed and be imprisoned for 3 years. This would resolve the problem overnight.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

We can all give opinions on whether the law can be successfully policed or whether it can be easily dodged or not. I suspect that that will vary from area to area and different campaigns that are held and the importance different police chiefs put on it at any given time.
The only fact is the new legislation that the OP has drawn our attention to. Laws will continue to be broken by some and some will be caught and some will carry on getting away with it!


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## Colonel Fairfax Curruther (Aug 13, 2018)

This may reduce the problem.

Uber rolls back into Spain with UberX licensed cab service in Madrid and a fresh attitude.


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