# Working Holiday Visa Issues



## eaarw (3 mo ago)

Hi, 

I'm in a bit of a pickle and any insight would be greatly appreciated. I am a Canadian Resident and I recently moved to Germany to apply for a working holiday visa. On the second day of arrival I applied for my visa through an online service (submitting documents, reason of stay etc). I then registered my new address a few days after in-person and was told that there were going to be major delays in getting a visa appointment due to Ukraine and Covid. I have not received any emails regarding my application as of today (over 3 months). I had to come back to Canada for personal reasons and I am worried about my re-entry into Germany with only 1-2 days left on my 90-Day Tourist Visa. 

To add, on the automated email it stated that applying through the online service was considered a visa application but from what I've gathered online, it seems that having an appointment booked in advance might be the only thing considered as an application to allow me to come back. These delays are recent and I think many are experiencing the same issue but have not returned home, so I'm hoping anyone out there might be able to tell me if it should be okay to fly back to Germany. I have travel insurance, liability insurance, and my name registered to a German address, so I'm wondering if the email and those documents are sufficient to return despite not having my Visa. 

Many thanks.


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

So my kid, also Canadian, arrived in Germany in May, applied for the YMV a few weeks later (there was some back-and-forth with a friendly Beamter about whether they could get a student visa or the youth mobility visa). Not long after they were offered an appointment in early September, and ultimately received an Aufenthaltserlaubnis without any difficulty, valid for 12 months from the date of issue. They remained in the country once the 90 days were up, so travel was not an issue.

When you applied "through an online service" was that official channels or something else? In my kid's case (in Berlin) they submitted everything by e-mail, directly to the appropriate LEA department. 

Not entirely sure what to advise here. I would maybe contact the Ausländerbehörde where you applied and ask if they can give you an appointment or at least confirm that receipt of the application counts towards extending your stay. How much time will you have left on your "Schengen clock"? It's a 90 days out of 180 so a rolling window, so the longer you stay in Canada, the more time you'd be allowed to remain as a tourist.

Worst case you fly to Germany on a one-way ticket and hope it goes well at the airport. I'd be concerned about the fact that it's been over 3 months and you haven't been offered an appointment. That's a long time to wait and not be allowed to work legally. (Off the record, I understand that some employers are not overly fussy if they know that someone is Canadian and waiting for their working holiday visa.)

PS Were you actually required to have liability insurance - Halbpflichtversicherung - as well as health insurance? First I've heard of it.


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

eaarw said:


> To add, on the automated email it stated that applying through the online service was considered a visa application but from what I've gathered online, it seems that having an appointment booked in advance might be the only thing considered as an application to allow me to come back. These delays are recent and I think many are experiencing the same issue but have not returned home, so I'm hoping anyone out there might be able to tell me if it should be okay to fly back to Germany.


You are allowed to spend 90 days within 180 days under the *Schengen rules.* However, since you are Canadian you have extra privileges in *Germany* that were grandfathered in when Germany joined Schengen.

As long as you haven't used your 90 days within the past 180, you can fly into Schengen without a problem. If you've already used your 90 days you can fly to Germany, but not to other Schengen countries.

Considering how many privileges you have in Germany as a Canadian citizen, it would incredibly foolish to be forced to leave because you were caught working under the table.


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## eaarw (3 mo ago)

Harry Moles said:


> So my kid, also Canadian, arrived in Germany in May, applied for the YMV a few weeks later (there was some back-and-forth with a friendly Beamter about whether they could get a student visa or the youth mobility visa). Not long after they were offered an appointment in early September, and ultimately received an Aufenthaltserlaubnis without any difficulty, valid for 12 months from the date of issue. They remained in the country once the 90 days were up, so travel was not an issue.
> 
> When you applied "through an online service" was that official channels or something else? In my kid's case (in Berlin) they submitted everything by e-mail, directly to the appropriate LEA department.
> 
> ...



Yes I applied through an official website, I'm residing in Hamburg and I applied online through the Hamburg Welcome Portal. 

Thank you, I think I will try to contact the Ausländerbehörde. I've even read that for some people they couldn't get an appointment for 4 to 5 months. 

Liability Insurance isn't required but it's recommended to have while staying in Germany.


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

I think your best option at this point is to contact the Ausländerbehörde and explain the situation and ask for advice. (Otherwise the only alternative is to book a flight and hope it goes well.)

I just spoke to my kid and remembered to ask about their timeline, in Berlin: arrived early May; submitted YMV application beginning of July; response a week later with appointment in early September. Around 4 months from arrival to being granted the YMV.

They said some of their friends were able to get the YMV quickly and easily by going to small towns. One friend in particular had some distant relatives in Bavaria, went to visit, had the Anmeldung and appointment and everything sorted out within a week. If you need to start fresh that might be an option.

Sometimes the Halbpflichtversicherung is a condition of renting, landlords will require it. An old joke: there's nothing the English won't bet on, and nothing the Germans won't insure themselves against.


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> Considering how many privileges you have in Germany as a Canadian citizen, it would incredibly foolish to be forced to leave because you were caught working under the table.


What I have been told is that some employers are fine with seeing proof of an appointment, and do everything by the book in terms of taxes and health insurance. I am getting this all second-hand, however.


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

*Sunshine* said:


> You are allowed to spend 90 days within 180 days under the *Schengen rules.* However, since you are Canadian you have extra privileges in *Germany* that were grandfathered in when Germany joined Schengen.
> 
> As long as you haven't used your 90 days within the past 180, you can fly into Schengen without a problem. If you've already used your 90 days you can fly to Germany, but not to other Schengen countries.


To my knowledge there are no extra privileges that give Canadians the right to visit Germany for more than 90 out of 180 days. There is currently a special allowance for anyone who cannot obtain their first Ausländerbehörde appointment within 90 days of arrival - they are permitted to stay in the country until the appointment. The e-mail showing the appointment date serves as a _de facto_ visa extension. (The OP is in a slightly different position, as all they have is a receipt for submission of the application, with no appointment.) It's not clear to me what would happen if someone leaves Germany during this period then attempts to return outside the normal 90-in-180 window - would they be allowed back in on the basis of having made (or attempted to make) a YMV appointment?

If I were concerned and flying back, I'd certainly connect in Frankfurt or London rather than risk a passport control somewhere else in Schengen.


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

So this is strange timing. I saw this today, concerning the upcoming ETIAS rules. The part about bilateral agreements is interesting. It also means my earlier post is wrong. I stand corrected!









ETIAS for Canadians


ETIAS for Canadian citizens. Canadians intent on traveling to Europe for business or leisure will need to apply for an ETIAS visa waiver from late 2023.




www.etiasvisa.com





Canadians (along with other "privileged" nationalities like Americans) can spend 90 days in Schengen then another 3 months in Germany without a visa or residence permit. These bilateral agreements predate Schengen but remained in force. The catch is that after the first 90 days, you cannot travel to other Schengen countries, and when you leave you should fly directly out of Germany, without connecting in a Schengen country.

This explains why the Ausländerbehörde has been so easy to deal with when you can't get an appointment within 90 days - in reality you have 6 months.* They aren't offering special treatment at all, it was always on the books. (It also explains why Germans can come to Canada for 6 months without a visa - technically, Canadians get the same deal.)

What this means for the OP, I think, is that it doesn't matter whether they have an appointment or not, or even the e-mail that confirms an appointment - with nothing at all they could stay in Germany for 6 months. I have no idea how this rule would impact their ability to return to Germany for an appointment, but it sounds like it could be very important to fly in from a non-Schengen country, so either straight to Frankfurt or a connection in London - avoid the KLM or Air France routes.

*Waiting up to 6 months without being allowed to work for 12 months does however wreck the idea of taking a gap year to find a job. Obviously better to have the appointment as soon as possible.


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