# Siret number France



## gregwhitehorne

Hi

myself and my wife have bought a house in France and have been in France for 6 months on a 12 month long term visa, my question is can we apply for a Siret number whilst we are here on the long stay visa as we want to rent out a log cabin we have on the land.


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## Bevdeforges

You will be assigned a Siret number when you register a business entity with the local CCI (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie). I believe you also get a Siret number if you set up a micro-entreprise (i.e. auto-entrepreneur) business. It is also possible to rent out a single residential property without a Siret - as long as you declare everything on your tax declaration. You may want to speak with the CCI to see what your options are as far as registering a business vs. doing the rental as a casual rental.


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## EuroTrash

Maybe not the issue here but I am interested in knowing how far a person on a "non lucrative" type of visa, who will normally have signed an undertaking not to engage in paid work in France, would be allowed to proceed along the "working and earning" path. I kinda presumed they could get a siret for "non professional" activities but not set up a business including an ME, which would involve paying cotisations on income etc and actually change their status to "worker". But that is just my guess, have never seen anything one way or the other.


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## Bevdeforges

EuroTrash said:


> I kinda presumed they could get a siret for "non professional" activities but not set up a business including an ME, which would involve paying cotisations on income etc and actually change their status to "worker".


I know things have changed over the years, but at one point, when the AE thing was still kind of new and evolving, I had put in a question to the AE portal site asking if someone on a "visitor" visa could establish an AE. I was told at the time that they could. But I know the rules have changed considerably over the last several years.

OTOH, you don't actually need a SIRET to rent out property you own. Certainly not residential property - and apparently (judging from our tax declarations, which I fill out) not for farm property, either. I have also seen some references in various tax sources to there being some significant differences in the tax and regulation side of things between simply renting out a property you own and being in the business of renting out property as a commercial enterprise. Since I think having a SIRET would definitely suggest that you are in the business of renting out property, the OP may want to research the "need" for a SIRET at this point. (Goes under the heading of "things are never exactly 'simple' in France when it comes to business and taxes.")


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## Crabtree

Well if it is a visitor visa then you cannot engage in any employment or work surely, otherwise it would be a free for all and totally circumvent the visa system wouldn't it?


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## Bevdeforges

Crabtree said:


> Well if it is a visitor visa then you cannot engage in any employment or work surely, otherwise it would be a free for all and totally circumvent the visa system wouldn't it?


Which begs the question whether renting out an "out building" on your own property is considered "work." Probably best to ask the CCI or some other legal or tax authority.


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## Crabtree

What about if it is two buildings? or five ? Who does the cleaning the maintenance etc? Who does the advertising who takes the bookings? It must be work surely?


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## EuroTrash

On the other hand, it is entirely possible a person who lives abroad to own and rent a property in France. So looking at it upside down, it would be odd if a person can live in the UK and rent out their French gite without a problem, but if they move to France they no longer could.


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## Bevdeforges

Crabtree said:


> What about if it is two buildings? or five ? Who does the cleaning the maintenance etc? Who does the advertising who takes the bookings? It must be work surely?


Obviously, I'm speaking of "work" in the business sense, where one has to be registered with the appropriate tax and social insurance authorities. Example I have in mind is that of my husband who owns a residential property and some farm parcels for all of which he receives rent. We just report his rental income on our annual tax declaration, take the standard deductions plus any capital improvements or major repairs on our French form 2044 and my husband has no SIRET or business entity related to these transactions.

Oh, and here is another of those handy pages on the Fisc website in English: As a non-resident who receives income from real property, is this property income or business income, and how do I declare it ?


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## vianina

On the other hand, if you buy your property by setting up an SCI, for which you don’t need to be resident as far as I know, you get a SIRET as part of the deal. Renting out property is subject to cotisations and is declared in a separate category to employment income. My hunch is that you can rent out property regardless of immigration status. I wouldn’t know where to get a genuinely reliable confirmation of that, though.


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## Bevdeforges

Actually, if you buy your property using an SCI and get a SIRET for the SCI, it's actually the SCI that rents out the property and reports that income as the business income of the SCI. And, it's possible to set up the SCI so that the business pays its own taxes OR, you can allocate the income among the SCI shareholders so they each report their share on their own personal income taxes. (I'd talk to a notaire about the tax side of things if you do decide to set up an SCI.)


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