# Need quick help... moving back home



## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi. Short and sweet.

Born in USA. Father American, Mother Canadian. Haven't lived in USA since I was 5 (29 years ago). I have no SSN and I have never filed US taxes. Up to date on Canadian taxes. Wife of >2 years is Canadian. Both have Canadian passports. Wish to move to USA ASAP. I'm self employed and will want to continue my sole proprietorship small business. She will eventually want to work but it doesn't have to be right away.

I suppose my first step is to get that SSN, right? Any idea how I do that please?

The reason I say "quick help" is because I imagine I have to go to an office in the US and later this week I will be in Bellingham, WA and i'd like to get it done on the same day if feasible. Thank you.

- Steven


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

You may want to take a look at this document about the process:

http://www.northwestern.edu/hr/payroll/ss-5.pdf

The main thing is to check the list of documents required as those are the things that can take some time to get. You need two certified pieces of i.d. that establish your name, age and US citizenship. A birth certificate is one of the standards, but that can take a while to obtain, depending on where you were born. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

I have my birth cert as well as my Canadian passport, which lists USA as my birthplace. I'd think that should suffice. I'll check it out, thanks.


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

It does seem that my documentation should be good enough. It says in that form that they "prefer" documents issued in the US... but that doesn't appear to exclude my CDN passport so hopefully that should be OK along with my driver's license for proof of identity.

Kind of sucks that I have to go in person  But convenient since I'll be nearby this week anyway. At least I hope! I have no idea if there is a SS office in or near Bellingham. The locator tool is closed right now.

I imagine my next step is going to be to file for recent years taxes. After that, I'm not entirely sure what I have to do. If there's a simple checklist that someone can link me to, that would be appreciated. Otherwise, Google is my friend and I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Thanks.

- Steven


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

steven_eh said:


> I have my birth cert as well as my Canadian passport, which lists USA as my birthplace. I'd think that should suffice. I'll check it out, thanks.


Um, you don't have a US passport? Technically you could be in for some hassle on entering the US if anyone notices that fact. If you are a US citizen, you are supposed to enter the US on your US passport. There are big fines for those who don't, though it's within the discretionary range of the agent to let you pass with a "stern warning." Be very pleasant and polite on entry to the US! 

Where are you located? If there is an IRS office in your local US consulate, they are the first ones to go to to get those back tax forms filled out and filed. Despite the somewhat fearsome reputation the IRS folks have at home, the staff in the Consulate offices are generally very helpful and actually pleasant to deal with. All the forms you need are available online at the IRS website. For the back forms, you want to download Publication 54 and Publication 17 - both are basic instruction manuals available for free online. Pub 54 is for Overseas residents and Pub 17 is the basic "everything you ever wanted to know about US income taxes" guide that is usually reprinted in any of the expensive "name brand" tax guides.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> I suppose my first step is to get that SSN, right? Any idea how I do that please?


The SSN will take many months because they will have additional checks since it wasn't issued when you were a child.

The first step is a US passport. Info will be at American Citizen Services at your local American Consulate.


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> Um, you don't have a US passport? Technically you could be in for some hassle on entering the US if anyone notices that fact. If you are a US citizen, you are supposed to enter the US on your US passport. There are big fines for those who don't, though it's within the discretionary range of the agent to let you pass with a "stern warning." Be very pleasant and polite on entry to the US!


OK, I know I'm new here and I am the one asking for advice, but I have to post regarding this quote because it is ridiculous and absolutely incorrect. No bones about it, you are 100% wrong in what you said.

There is no "technical" reason a US citizen is "supposed" to enter the US on a US passport. That's just silly. There are no "big fines" and not even a light warning, let alone a "stern" one.

I've entered the US on my Canadian passport hundreds, if not thousands, of times. And it says right on it that I'm a US citizen. Don't post such comments that can really affect someone's important decisions when you clearly know nothing about it.

I thank you for your "advice", especially about the tax related items, but in this case about the first part of your post... I know for a fact what you're saying is a load of hooey.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I can't stand when people spread false information on forums, especially about important topics. If you don't know, then don't post. Or post that you don't know.


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Zoom said:


> Wow, Steven, just a bit naive? What makes you think things go fast and smooth here (get it done the same day? yeah right, sure thing) You should know better living right next door to the USA.


Huh? I didn't say I expect to get much of anything done "same day". But you think I can't file a form in one day? Are you seriously saying that the line up at the SSN office will literally take more than a day to get through?



Zoom said:


> Oh and that Universal Health Care you have in Canada?


 What are you smoking? Where did health care come up?



Zoom said:


> Blah blah blah


Excuse me for skipping the majority of your rant.



Zoom said:


> Sorry to go so off O.T. but you sound a bit too caught up in the fantasy - just trying to tell you the reality, not the "Hollywood" version.


Man, you're off the rails a bit, aren't you? How is it that I sounded "caught up in the fantasy"??? What fantasy?

Where did I post???


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Fatbrit said:


> The SSN will take many months because they will have additional checks since it wasn't issued when you were a child.
> 
> The first step is a US passport. Info will be at American Citizen Services at your local American Consulate.


And... we're 3 for 3 on wrong advice. At least you didn't come off like a nut-job  But you're wrong. You can't get a US Passport without a Social Security number. Thanks for coming out.


Damned... I'm sure glad I found a different forum with good advice! This is NOT it. Incredible.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> And... we're 3 for 3 on wrong advice. At least you didn't come off like a nut-job  But you're wrong. You can't get a US Passport without a Social Security number. Thanks for coming out.
> 
> 
> Damned... I'm sure glad I found a different forum with good advice! This is NOT it. Incredible.



So go away if you don't want our help! It really doesn't bother me at all.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> There is no "technical" reason a US citizen is "supposed" to enter the US on a US passport. That's just silly. There are no "big fines" and not even a light warning, let alone a "stern" one.


The _technical_ reason is that it's the law. See: 8 USC § 1185(b).


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## French Connection (Jun 29, 2010)

steven_eh said:


> Damned... I'm sure glad I found a different forum with good advice! This is NOT it. Incredible.


Then deregister yourself from this Forum and... ****** OFF!!!


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Its not "help" if its just a bunch of bull, assumptions and mistakes, now is it? I'll go away... no problem there. Keep posting, and I'll come back.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> Its not "help" if its just a bunch of bull, assumptions and mistakes, now is it? I'll go away... no problem there. Keep posting, and I'll come back.


You need a US passport to enter the US because it's the law. You've already had the citation.

You do not require a social security number to apply for a US passport. The law requires that if you have one, you disclose it. See: 26 U.S.C. § 6039(E). This does not mean you cannot apply for a US passport if you don't have a social security number.

Don't bother coming back -- I don't like ignorant, rude people.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Fatbrit said:


> The _technical_ reason is that it's the law. See: 8 USC § 1185(b).


Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.
Except Steven


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Me neither 

But you keep posting, and so it continues...

The wording from your first citation is necessarily ambiguous, but it does indeed seem to indicate that "Bev" was correct... though clearly that is not the case. If it were, I would have racked up thousands of fines and/or stern warnings or at the very least been told once that what I was doing was "technically" illegal. So either it is covered under the, "except where authorized by the President" clause, or it is superseded by another section... because evidently I am allowed to enter and leave the US freely on my Canadian passport. And its not like I hid my US citizenship from the border guard... it says right on my Canadian passport that I was born in the US, and that necessitates that I am a US citizen. It also indicates I am a Canadian citizen, and perhaps (as I said before) that supersedes the law you cited in terms of lawful entry/exit.

As for needing a SSN to apply for a passport... I made the mistake of believing advice from a forum (ironic, I know) which stated you don't need the card but you MUST provide your number. One gentleman also asserted that the rules are different since I'm over 18 and therefore I *must* have a SSN to apply for a passport... but upon searching for backup of that, I can't find anything definitive. So in retrospect, I have no qualified reason to have said you were wrong. My apologies for that one.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> Me neither
> 
> But you keep posting, and so it continues...
> 
> ...


So, forget calling at an SSA office in the US.....it's just going to complicate matters. The consulate is going to be much more used to dealing with those who have found themselves in your predicament.

As I said at the beginning, you need a passport above all else. Find ACS at the US consulate that serves your residency and apply for a passport. While you're there, throw in the application for a social security card -- most of the big consulates have a social security office attached. And also throw in 3 years of back-filed tax returns at the attached IRS office -- you'll need them to get your wife over, so there's no point in procrastinating.

When you've done all that, report back, try not to be antagonistic, and we'll find ways to get the wife over.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

steven_eh said:


> I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I can't stand when people spread false information on forums, especially about important topics. If you don't know, then don't post. Or post that you don't know.


This is how the US State department puts it on their website:

>>Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. <<

and

from the US State Department Foreign Affairs Manual:
>>a. Section 215(b) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1185(b) and 22 CFR 53 require U.S. citizens to enter and depart the United States on U.S. passports, with limited exceptions.<<

Justia :: 22 C.F.R. PART 53—PASSPORT REQUIREMENT AND EXCEPTIONS

Cheers,
Bev


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

OK... fair enough. I see where you're coming from and now recognize why you posted what you did.

But then does that mean my situation falls under "limited exceptions" or what applies to "most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals" does not apply to me? Or have I just been "lucky" hundreds or thousands of times? I live on a border town, so I've crossed back and forth by car a LOT but also by plane and to and from various ports of entry... from every port in BC and also Calgary and Toronto, and into many ports in WA as well as TX, NY, WI and probably several others... EVERY single time without a US passport and every time telling the officer I'm American and not ONCE getting the slightest grief about it.

In fact, I can only ever remember one officer once coming back with a question at all. He took my passport, asked me where I was born and I told him and he said something like, "so why do you have a Canadian passport instead of a US one?" and I would have answered something like, "I've lived here since I was a kid" and that was the end of it.

Laws tend to be followed... well... to the letter of the law. It doesn't sound like jaywalking where its really only an offence if a cop is pissed off. I can't believe that hundreds of US Customs officials ignored their duty or felt generous or just liked my smile. So between your quoted passages and my actual experiences... what gives?

And its not like I'm alone on this. My brother obviously is in the same boat. He never got hassled either.

He, incidentally, was the one that said to start with an SSN. He went through all this a few years ago when he moved back. Only difference was he and his girlfriend were not married (they married when they got there) and my wife and I are. He didn't have a passport either, and said he was required to get a SSN first. Then he got filed his taxes, then he got his passport. For his girlfriend, they just moved down there and did the paperwork once they were already there. She couldn't work for about 6 months before they got her a greencard. It didn't really take all that long, but from what I've read they were taking a risk because clearly she would have moved with the intent of immigrating (and that became even more clear after she dumped his ass once the greencard came - but that's a different story)


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> OK... fair enough. I see where you're coming from and now recognize why you posted what you did.
> 
> But then does that mean my situation falls under "limited exceptions" or what applies to "most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals" does not apply to me? Or have I just been "lucky" hundreds or thousands of times? I live on a border town, so I've crossed back and forth by car a LOT but also by plane and to and from various ports of entry... from every port in BC and also Calgary and Toronto, and into many ports in WA as well as TX, NY, WI and probably several others... EVERY single time without a US passport and every time telling the officer I'm American and not ONCE getting the slightest grief about it.
> 
> ...



If you knew a guy who got away with robbing a bank, would you chose bank robbery as your career?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Chances are, you've been lucky all this time. And, it has only been in the last couple of years (if that long) that you need a passport to enter the US from Canada. It used to be just a photo i.d. - so if you were handing them a Canadian passport it really wasn't a big deal and if you weren't at an airport they probably barely noticed the place of birth. At the time, it fit the rules - photo i.d. and it shows your place of birth.

But they are getting tougher lately. I know I've gotten questioned much more closely when I enter the US (on my US passport) these last few years. I've heard of people getting hassled for inadvertently handing over the wrong passport on entry and they've hassled my (non-American) husband when I insist on going through the line with him (in the non-resident lines). At one seminar I attended for US citizens living abroad, an immigration attorney in the Netherlands swears that one of her clients was fined big bucks because the family put their kids on the (non-US citizen) father's passport instead of getting them their own US passports like you're supposed to do.

I used to take great pride in "smuggling" stuff back into the US - an extra bottle of wine, or foodstuffs you weren't supposed to bring in. But they've cracked down and I don't fool around with those guys anymore. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Chances are, you've been lucky all this time. And, it has only been in the last couple of years (if that long) that you need a passport to enter the US from Canada. It used to be just a photo i.d. - so if you were handing them a Canadian passport it really wasn't a big deal and if you weren't at an airport they probably barely noticed the place of birth. At the time, it fit the rules - photo i.d. and it shows your place of birth.
> 
> But they are getting tougher lately. I know I've gotten questioned much more closely when I enter the US (on my US passport) these last few years. I've heard of people getting hassled for inadvertently handing over the wrong passport on entry and they've hassled my (non-American) husband when I insist on going through the line with him (in the non-resident lines). At one seminar I attended for US citizens living abroad, an immigration attorney in the Netherlands swears that one of her clients was fined big bucks because the family put their kids on the (non-US citizen) father's passport instead of getting them their own US passports like you're supposed to do.
> 
> ...


There's no penalty under the statute. However, CBP have the option of doling out an administrative fine (I can't be bothered to go and look it up) but they rarely seem to do it since they have the option of torturing and/or being verbally abusive to you in secondary processing for a good few hours instead.

But all this is irrelevant. Steven is planning to live in the US. His FIRST job is to get the bloody passport!


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I can't believe its been "luck". WAYYY too many customs officers should be losing their job if that's the case. Didn't notice my place of birth? They ask me that directly each and every time. No, there must be something else. There's no way its against any law, despite the wording of what you've posted. Its just unfathomable that its never come up. I'm guessing (and I know you guys are touchy - so don't take it personal) that the customs officers know the relevant law better than you guys.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> I'm sorry, but I can't believe its been "luck". WAYYY too many customs officers should be losing their job if that's the case. Didn't notice my place of birth? They ask me that directly each and every time. No, there must be something else. There's no way its against any law, despite the wording of what you've posted. Its just unfathomable that its never come up. I'm guessing (and I know you guys are touchy - so don't take it personal) that the customs officers know the relevant law better than you guys.


Just get the passport! I'm sure you might be able to keep living in/visiting the US without it.....but all you will do is cause yourself problems. It's really not that difficult.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2010)

There is a Social Security office at 710 Alabama Street, Bellingham, Washington 98225. You must present either original documents or copies certified *by the issuing agency* for your proof of I.D. They *WILL NOT accept* notarized photocopies (as per the SS website Social Security Online - The Official Website of the U.S. Social Security Administration) The processing time may be a few weeks before they mail your card to you.

So far, everyone has been right and wrong about the border crossings and the question of whether or not a US passport is needed. From what I can tell, a US citizen MUST present a US passport for an arrival by AIR, but the government boneheads haven't yet written the regulations for land or sea arrivals. 

There is probably a difference between policy and practice at the CM and MX borders. People arriving from a Western Hemisphere country are treated differently than if they are coming from Asia, Europe. Africa, etc.

Under the WHTI regulations, they will accept his Canadian passport showing US birth because the Canadian passport meets their document security standards for identity proof for a land or sea crossing. Fly to Vancouver and not to Seattle, my friend, and then drive across.

You can't file your tax returns until you receive your SS number. They may be able to give you the number, just not the card, immediately as your tax ID number. The card isn't needed to file your taxes. Add the 2555 form to take the foreign earned income exclusion for each year's return. 

If you have bank accounts in Canada or other foreign countries with a total value of more than US$10,000, remember to also file your Treasury report for foreign bank accounts. They want to keep their thumb on you.

You can do the passport after you get to the US. Right now, before you leave, you could order copies of your birth certificate so they are ready to go. Get them certified by the county (recorder?) for the county in which you were born. They do those every day. Get two or three so you don't have to go back - they are cheap. Good luck.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

GringoCArlos said:


> There is a Social Security office at 710 Alabama Street, Bellingham, Washington 98225. You must present either original documents or copies certified *by the issuing agency* for your proof of I.D. They *WILL NOT accept* notarized photocopies (as per the SS website Social Security Online - The Official Website of the U.S. Social Security Administration) The processing time may be a few weeks before they mail your card to you.
> 
> So far, everyone has been right and wrong about the border crossings and the question of whether or not a US passport is needed. From what I can tell, a US citizen MUST present a US passport for an arrival by AIR, but the government boneheads haven't yet written the regulations for land or sea arrivals.
> 
> ...


Your solution fails to take account of the following facts:
He's an adult, natural US citizen who has never held a social security number and he's applying for the first time. If he applies at an SSA inside the country, he'll be damn lucky to get the card inside 6 months, not in 2 weeks.


He needs to start at the consulate, as previously given, if he isn't going to make a hash of it.

The land borders are indeed different. However, the law *now* requires that US citizens enter and leave on a US passport on land, at sea, or in the air. What is so difficult to understand about this?


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## steven_eh (Apr 7, 2010)

Fatbrit said:


> What is so difficult to understand about this?


For me, just the fact that it isn't the case  Unless you're saying this is a new regulation from within 5 weeks ago - the last time I drove. Or from May, the last time I've flown to the US. It is clear to me that there is a disconnect between your interpretation of the law, and what is actually in place. I agree with you from the wording of the passage you cited that it appears to be as you say... but COMMON practice dictates it is not so.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

steven_eh said:


> For me, just the fact that it isn't the case  Unless you're saying this is a new regulation from within 5 weeks ago - the last time I drove. Or from May, the last time I've flown to the US. It is clear to me that there is a disconnect between your interpretation of the law, and what is actually in place. I agree with you from the wording of the passage you cited that it appears to be as you say... but COMMON practice dictates it is not so.



The fact that you get away with crossing the Canadian/US land border without your US passport is totally irrelevant to your goals. I'd suggest that you concentrate on those rather your current line of philosophical enquiry.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

steven_eh said:


> For me, just the fact that it isn't the case  Unless you're saying this is a new regulation from within 5 weeks ago - the last time I drove. Or from May, the last time I've flown to the US. It is clear to me that there is a disconnect between your interpretation of the law, and what is actually in place. I agree with you from the wording of the passage you cited that it appears to be as you say... but COMMON practice dictates it is not so.


From the Homeland Security page:

_Land/Sea Travel

Beginning June 1, 2009

* U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry are required to have documents that comply with the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), most commonly a U.S. passport, a passport card, a trusted traveler card such as NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST, or an enhanced driver's license. See the complete list of WHTI-compliant documents._

Apparently these regulations have caused quite a stir with the cruise crowd, as prior to June 1, 2009, you didn't need a passport to cruise the Caribbean either and now the cruise lines at least are getting very strict about this.

Frankly, you're free to ignore any and all advice you get on this or any other forum. We're here to give you what we know of the law and what our experiences tell us to be the case. If you want to go into the Social Security office in Bellingham and apply for your card and number with your birth certificate and Canadian passport, fine. Let us know how it goes and how long it takes to get your card. Then, we can help you with filing your taxes - or not, as you like.
Cheers,
Bev


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## mack joseph (Aug 12, 2010)

*Thanks so much !!!*

Hi All,
Thank you so much for giving the info. I considered myself a relatively well informed person but I learned a lot, and especially benefited from the overall perspective.
I cannot appreciate you enough for giving me the amazing opportunity to learn so much from the suggestions from all you people.
Keep Up The Good Work.
Thanks again
Regards
Mack


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## Gourockian (Nov 26, 2009)

steven_eh said:


> For me, just the fact that it isn't the case  Unless you're saying this is a new regulation from within 5 weeks ago - the last time I drove. Or from May, the last time I've flown to the US. It is clear to me that there is a disconnect between your interpretation of the law, and what is actually in place. I agree with you from the wording of the passage you cited that it appears to be as you say... but COMMON practice dictates it is not so.


Well, let me tell you of my mother's experience. Born in the US in the 1930's, she has lived in the UK since the age of 2. Flew out here many times on her UK passport then one day, (about 4 years ago) she was told by the flight check-in agent at Glasgow that she should really be flying into the the US on a US passport. When she went through immigration, they told her the same thing, only in a more official tone. 

So on her return, she applied for her US passport, sending as part of her documentation her original birth certificate from Virginia. Guess what, they didn't even accept that and made her apply for another, more up to date version. So after much hassle and additional expense, she now uses her US passport to enter and leave the States and her UK one to enter the UK.

As for your past experiences, it may well be that the there has been a more lax approach taken with Canadian citizens born in the US, as they are our North American neighbors. After all, I'm quite sure you are not the only person in this situation.

However, various Canadian friends report a tightening up of entry procedures, at least at East Coast border crossings.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

*My adult son was in exactly the same situation as Stephen*

My adult son was born in the US and was living in Canada with dual US/Canadian citizenship. He decided to move back to the US 4 years ago. He did not have a Social Security card as he went to Canada as a young child. I went with him to the Social Security office to get his SS card 4 years ago so I know exactly what he had to do. Apart from his birth certificate he had to show documentation to explain why he did not have a SS card. Whet they wanted were records such as school records from Canada showing he lived there as a minor. He produced his school records and then received his SS card. It did take a few months to get the card. He now lives here in the US.

Prior to moving back here, he frequently visited the US on his Canadian passport with no problems. He always flew here.


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## antwackie (Apr 22, 2010)

steven_eh said:


> OK, I know I'm new here and I am the one asking for advice, but I have to post regarding this quote because it is ridiculous and absolutely incorrect. No bones about it, you are 100% wrong in what you said.
> 18 x 18 concrete paving stones walmart18 x 18 concrete paving stones walmart just silly. There are no "big fines" and not even a light warning, let alone a "stern" one.
> 
> I've entered the US on my Canadian passport hundreds, if not thousands, of times. And it says right on it that I'm a US citizen. Don't post such comments that can really affect someone's important decisions when you clearly know nothing about it.
> ...


. 

I think the reason you have been allowed to enter on your Canadian passport numerous times is because of your Canadian residency. I have found that when I leave the US to visit my family in England I am required to enter the UK on my British Passport. Then when I return to the USA I am required by law to enter with my American passport. In your case it is only required to show your CAN passport coming and going as they know you don't reside physically in the US. However, when you apply for a SSN you will then need a US passport to show US residency status.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

a) Would you mind to post an official link supporting your post "In your case it is only required to show your CAN passport coming and going as they know you don't reside physically in the US"? Thank you.

b) US passport is one form of ID to prove US citizenship and not required to apply for SS#. Take a guess - how many SS#s have been issued to non-citizens?
http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf


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## Gourockian (Nov 26, 2009)

Twostep,

I'm not sure why you asked the question " Take a guess - how many SS#s have been issued to non-citizens?". The form you provided a link to, quite clearly indicates that you do not have to be a citizen to apply. I had my SS card for approximately 11 years before becoming a US citizen, as I had a 'green card' for that period.


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

Gourockian said:


> Twostep,
> 
> I'm not sure why you asked the question " Take a guess - how many SS#s have been issued to non-citizens?". The form you provided a link to, quite clearly indicates that you do not have to be a citizen to apply. I had my SS card for approximately 11 years before becoming a US citizen, as I had a 'green card' for that period.


I agree. I got my SS card when I first came to the US on a Student Visa long before I became a US citizen.


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