# Question reguarding firearms



## radmichelle

Hey there, my husband kris has a 1935 antique mauser rifle inherited, i've come across the rules that firearms and ammunition is illegal and cannot cross the boarder, we also have a hunting crossbow i'd like to bring, i've read somewhere if we have proof of a hunting trip or something of that sorts like a hunting permit, that we can bring it across. He obviously wouldnt have the bolt and fireing pin in... just asking if anyone has any experience or info about it or how we may go about it. Thanks

ps, i am prepared for the snickers lol


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## FHBOY

radmichelle said:


> Hey there, my husband kris has a 1935 antique mauser rifle inherited, i've come across the rules that firearms and ammunition is illegal and cannot cross the boarder, we also have a hunting crossbow i'd like to bring, i've read somewhere if we have proof of a hunting trip or something of that sorts like a hunting permit, that we can bring it across. He obviously wouldnt have the bolt and fireing pin in... just asking if anyone has any experience or info about it or how we may go about it. Thanks
> 
> ps, i am prepared for the snickers lol


Use the search function on the Board. There was a long discussion about firearms in Mexico in the last year or so. If I remember anything it was that you can have a firearm in your house, but you cannot carry it out side of your house, or use it (of course) and the law is rather strict. As for crossbows - no idea.


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## mickisue1

He may be better off selling it for what he can get for it, and using the money to help fund your new life.


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## cuylers5746

*Transport of a Weapon into Mexico*

Hi again;

Go read those posts, you were referred to.

Basically NO, NO WAY. Do so, go directly to jail for 5 years and do not pass Go.
That's just for the first offense. Tell your husband, that even if he has a souvenir
bullet, drilled out on his key chain - he could go to jail for 5 years!

They're extremely serious about this, even one bullet. Aduana would probably turn
on alarms, shut the whole station down, immediately hand cuff you guys, and tear
apart every inch of your vehicles and trailers and contents. Who knows what shape
you later would find your vehicles in, dogs run off? There are a few "3rd Rail Issues"
in Mexico and Weapons are at the top of the list.

Also no to the hunting knife. If he has one, maybe if it's not too long and put burried
in his tool box, or in his fishing tackle box he might get away with it. Tell them it's a
tool.

The problem here is that not all Aduana interpret things exactly the same. So, DONT
is the rule. Even if you might pass the letter of the law, an Officer mis interprets it and
you two go to Jail and wait it out until some Mexican Lawyer you finally get to call
helps to straighten it all out and you might spend 1-2 weeks in some rat hole jail for
trying?

I mean If your the FBI under The US Attorney General's Office instructions and you move
a fire iron undetected across the border - maybe you could get away with it? But being a
private citizen - you'd be dead meat, and in 5 years when you get out will be deported
and never be able to return to Mexico again.


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## TundraGreen

FHBOY said:


> Use the search function on the Board. There was a long discussion about firearms in Mexico in the last year or so. If I remember anything it was that you can have a firearm in your house, but you cannot carry it out side of your house, or use it (of course) and the law is rather strict. As for crossbows - no idea.


I believe possession of a firearm without a permit is illegal, even if you never take it out of your house. And, of course, you would have no way to get it into your house the first time, so you would need a permit in any case. Getting a permit is difficult but not impossible, but I do not know the details.


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## mickisue1

When I first responded, I didn't realize that you are planning on using a 180 day visa.

Ask yourself, if you were a border guard for a country that REALLY doesn't like guns coming into the country, if you would hand over a tourist permit to someone who was bringing in weapons?


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## trpt2345

Again don't do it. From today's Chicago Tribune:

Parents of ex-U.S. Marine jailed in Mexico say he's losing hope - chicagotribune.com


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## TundraGreen

trpt2345 said:


> Again don't do it. From today's Chicago Tribune:
> 
> Parents of ex-U.S. Marine jailed in Mexico say he's losing hope - chicagotribune.com


I have sympathy for anyone caught up in the criminal justice system anywhere, and Mexico's sounds worse than others. But, there are several aspects of that news story that sound fishy to me. 

I would not think of anything made by Sears and Roebuck as "heirloom". 

Since typical shotgun barrels are 28" or 30", why did he have one with a 24" barrel. They are generally shotguns that have been altered by law enforcement or criminals for work in close spaces. 

Depending on whether the indicated length was overall length or actual barrel length, a shotgun of that length might have been classified as a "sawed off" shotgun and illegal in the US, not just Mexico.

Why would anyone bring a "family heirloom" on a surfing trip to Latin America.


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## mickisue1

TundraGreen said:


> I have sympathy for anyone caught up in the criminal justice system anywhere, and Mexico's sounds worse than others. But, there are several aspects of that news story that sound fishy to me.
> 
> I would not think of anything made by Sears and Roebuck as "heirloom".
> 
> Since typical shotgun barrels are 28" or 30", why did he have one with a 24" barrel. They are generally shotguns that have been altered by law enforcement or criminals for work in close spaces.
> 
> Depending on whether the indicated length was overall length or actual barrel length, a shotgun of that length might have been classified as a "sawed off" shotgun and illegal in the US, not just Mexico.
> 
> Why would anyone bring a "family heirloom" on a surfing trip to Latin America.


If you read the comments, along with the typical anti-Mexican garbage from the mouth-breathers, there's one that notes that at the particular crossing that he took, there are signs all over the place on the US side stating that it's a crime to bring guns into Mexico.

AND, he didn't "try to register it" at the Mexican checkpoint, it was found upon searching his vehicle. 

Given that the signs are there, is it credible that the US customs agents would have told him he'd have no problem?

BTW, it's not just MX that forbids bringing guns into the country. It's also the US and Canada, and probably every other country in the world. It's not like we have a firearm shortage anywhere.


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## cuylers5746

*Phony Information in that article on the Shotgun importation into Mexico*

Yea, I agree that article on the Marine getting caught importing a shot gun into Mexico, is as phony as a $3.00 Bill. US Border Patrol/ Customs would have never given that kid that dumb information. Yes, a rifle can be imported once a valid Hunting Permit is issued by a Mexican Consulate with papers from a legit experienced Hunting Guide in Mexico, but the permit is not issued at the border but at a Mexican Consulate, then the rifle has to be secured with seals etc.
He had none of that. I mean, could he not read the signs upon driving up to the border - no guns allowed?

They're not making an example out of him - it's the law and a 3rd Rail issue to boot with Mexico.
Actually he's probably better off in a Mexican Jail and with Political intervention maybe he can be transferred to a less of a hell hole prison in D.F. away from the border? But, he would have been caught going across Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua - no way he'd make it to Costa Rica. What on earth made him think he could get away with it?

Best, case they have if any one is listening is; Get to the Judge ahead of time with a top Attorney that's experience in these cases (where, who?), and try and negotiate a deal. After things go to trial in Mexico - it's all over. Mexico's legal system like many countries in the World is based a lot like the Napoleonic System. Police have to do a lot more due diligence and have more hard facts than in USA before they make an arrest. But, once arrested after they have those facts it's a lot more probable of a guilty verdict than in USA. 

I feel sorry for this young guy especially a Marine, but what was there knowledge and experience of going into Mexico ahead of time? Listening to a Willie Nelson, or Jimmie Buffet song and saying hell yes, let's go raise some hell in Mexico on the way to Costa Rica - and with a Shot Gun to boot?

Negotiations have to be done up front before the trial. But, I'll guarantee you this guy will get a minimum of 5 years. Even Obama couldn't help him - especially Obama, as it was his twit of a Attorney General Eric Holder that had to have known or authorized Operation Fast & Furious that got many Mexican's killed needlessly. then it happened again. Put in his 5 years and clock it up to experience.


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## AlanMexicali

trpt2345 said:


> Again don't do it. From today's Chicago Tribune:
> 
> Parents of ex-U.S. Marine jailed in Mexico say he's losing hope - chicagotribune.com


It is in all the Mexican news today also:

www.DespertarTamaulipas.com - PIDEN A EPN INDULTAR AL SOLDADO DE EU, JON HAMMAR


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## mes1952

I wonder why that guys (the Marine) did not look at all the signs before entering Mexico that state FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL????
He probably had little experience crossing into Mexico and thought he could get away with it. This is one of the examples of why so many young males get harassed once they enter into Mexico as they seem to think it won't happen to them. Every person (always a male) I've met who had trouble in Tijuana was due to something stupid like getting drunk, or going into a bad area to find drugs or trying to hook up with a prostitute, so one can have little sympathy for those.


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## FHBOY

mes1952 said:


> I wonder why that guys (the Marine) did not look at all the signs before entering Mexico that state FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL????
> He probably had little experience crossing into Mexico and thought he could get away with it. This is one of the examples of why so many young males get harassed once they enter into Mexico as they seem to think it won't happen to them. Every person (always a male) I've met who had trouble in Tijuana was due to something stupid like getting drunk, or going into a bad area to find drugs or trying to hook up with a prostitute, so one can have little sympathy for those.


1. How does a former Marine (there is no such thing as an ex-Marine) with diagnosed PTSD get a shotgun? - No he didn't buy it, so the US Government is not to blame.
2. How does his mother allow a former Marine with PTSD to take a working shotgun with him? - Is it too much to expect, even a parent of an adult child, to assume some responsibility know that his/her child has a history of a mental illness?
3. How does a former Marine, who is used to taking orders and following instruction without question think that instructions from a foreign government into whose country he is are invalid for him? Can he believe because he served honorably in the armed forces - and for that we owe him thanks - rules do not apply to him?
4. How does he (or anyone else) feel that he deserves special treatment in his punishment for breaking the laws of a foreign country? What is the argument to be used for that?

Opinion: I feel bad for this young soldier, but I do not feel he deserves any special treatment. He broke the law, a law that was clearly stated, and he should face the responsibility of his actions. I can be reasonably sure that USAers who are really annoyed about the law breaking that takes place by diplomats and diplomatic workers in the USA who are against giving them no quarter, have jumped the fence for this former Marine...but you cannot have it both ways.

Too bad for him, feel sorry for his mother, but...


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## cscscs007

Taking a gun into Mexico is a big hassle and frankly, not worth the time wasted. The process can be done, but it involves the Mexican Govt., the military, and god knows who else, maybe the Pope. I would suggest leaving it with someone to take care of, or pay to lock it up somewhere while you are gone if it is that important to him. Like the others have posted, DO NOT subvert the law and try to bring it in to Mexico. Not only do you have to deal with Mexico Border Agents at the border, but at the 26KM checkpoint you do it all over again.


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## radmichelle

yeah we decided to leave it with my dad here in the states


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## AlanMexicali

*ex marine to get out today*

Report: Jon Hammar to be released from Mexican prison today | Fox News

Notice how Fox News made a typo on the maximun years the charges carry in Mexico 15 instead of 12 years, typical of them... not to mention they left out the 3 to 12 years to report an accurate state of affairs of the "real"situation, again typical of them. Who can trust this type of sloppy inaccurate reporting? Answer: NOBODY CAN AND SHOULD!


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## cscscs007

A .410 shotgun? Going to jail for this gun would be embarrassing, it's only good for doves and quail, maybe a rabbit at close range, if it even works anymore. Definitely not for personal protection or something a bandito would want. I hope it's a lesson learned for this guy. I wonder if he will get a lifetime ban from Mexico, even though I doubt he will ever desire to go back.


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## AlanMexicali

cscscs007 said:


> A .410 shotgun? Going to jail for this gun would be embarrassing, it's only good for doves and quail, maybe a rabbit at close range, if it even works anymore. Definitely not for personal protection or something a bandito would want. I hope it's a lesson learned for this guy. I wonder if he will get a lifetime ban from Mexico, even though I doubt he will ever desire to go back.


Yes, I looked up the shotguns that are available today with a 24 inch long barrel and only one company I saw still makes them and markets it as a turkey/quail shotgun. 

However if anyone pointed one at me, working or not, I would definately hand over my wallet/car keys very fast.

A lifetime ban, I would think so, why wouldn´t he?


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## FHBOY

*Off topic rant - sorry*

OFF TOPIC - BUT ANGRY!

I just read the NRA response to the Newtown tragedy! There are no words to describe the ostrichs that they are. I hold no breach with hunters, let them live and be well, but Holy Cow - their answer to the whole thing (in part) more armed good guys will defend against armed bad guys. Put an armed guard at every school! What not every mall, every moive theatre, evry church, synagogue and mosque, every parking lot, every library, hell why not just put an armed guard on every bus, street corner, train and subway cars!!! Why stop, just give every one in the USA a gun, heck, by their logic there are more Good Guys than Bad Guys so we'll be safer!?!?!?

I can't go on - it is way too stupid an argument. God save the USA from such thinking!

SORRY FOR THE RANT - just one more reason I cry for the USA. 

:focus:


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## kazslo

AlanMexicali said:


> Report: Jon Hammar to be released from Mexican prison today | Fox News
> 
> Notice how Fox News made a typo on the maximun years the charges carry in Mexico 15 instead of 12 years, typical of them... not to mention they left out the 3 to 12 years to report an accurate state of affairs of the "real"situation, again typical of them. Who can trust this type of sloppy inaccurate reporting? Answer: NOBODY CAN AND SHOULD!


According to the news, they say he declared the gun and turned in proper paperwork...but according to the aduana he went through the "Nada Que Declarar" line and caught a red light: 

http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2009/descargas/boletines/Recuento_semanal_202012.pdf

Either way, as others have said, there is no way to claim ignorance since the entrances to Mexico have huge "Firearms Are Illegal" signs. At least fox is now reporting that the trip was for surfing AND hunting - so its not like this "antique" gun was somehow only a collectible and not a usable weapon as fox would like you to believe.


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## joaquinx

FHBOY said:


> NRA . . . their answer to the whole thing (in part) more armed good guys will defend against armed bad guys. Put an armed guard at every school! . . . .


Right now, states, towns, and school districts are laying-off police, teachers, firemen, et al, and the NRA wants to put armed guards in schools. Where are these governments going to get the money? Perhaps the NRA can dip into their fund and shell out a few dollars.


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## AlanMexicali

kazslo said:


> According to the news, they say he declared the gun and turned in proper paperwork...but according to the aduana he went through the "Nada Que Declarar" line and caught a red light:
> 
> http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2009/descargas/boletines/Recuento_semanal_202012.pdf
> 
> Either way, as others have said, there is no way to claim ignorance since the entrances to Mexico have huge "Firearms Are Illegal" signs. At least fox is now reporting that the trip was for surfing AND hunting - so its not like this "antique" gun was somehow only a collectible and not a usable weapon as fox would like you to believe.


I´ve been through the border hundreds of time and have never ever seen an RV not being honest enough/following what the sign states to go through the "Something to declare lane" , the sign even states "All buses and RVs use this lane" and I would presume they would have been stopped and asked to pull over to be checked thourghly even if they did get a green light as I have seen pickups loaded down with dirt bikes or quad cycles going to San Filipe many time before being directed over to be checked at the Calexico crossing after getting a green light. They are not stupid.


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## cuylers5746

*Arms in Schools*

Actually, I think it's a good thing to arm teachers, (After a rigorous training course and certification) for those that want this peace of mind. I'm sure there are some teachers that would do this if given the opportunity, and I'm sure other's spouses of the teachers would want them to carry too? It's not for everyone, but just some teachers packing and advertising that fact would cut way down on this kind of carnage. All it would take after this practice is put signs at the entrance of schools saying our teachers carry fire arms - and the lunatics would look for a safer place to cause mahem.

If you haven't been a teacher lately, or seen the influence of gangs (some of them the same Cartels that cause havoc in Mexico) then you might want to rethink your opinion on this?

My sister that taught in Orange County had a high school student pull a knife on her and threatened her life.

My niece taught in a rough area when she first graduated and got threatened by gang bangers. She had to try and curry up close friendships with some of the Football players in her class to keep from being taken out! She got out of there after only three months on the job.

A small little 4 shot Derringer, like a Doctor friend in Houston, she always takes into Surgery with her should do the job just fine. She used to work at Houston Medical Center and an average weekend saw 32 gun shot victims. The problem was some of the gang members actually tried to bust into some surgery's to finish the hit. 

Police are mainly good for showing up after the fact to; 1.) collect evidence, 2.) bring the body bags and not much more. I hear the masacre in the Theatre this year in Colorado came way up short of the intentions of the killer. A theatre goer got up pulled his gun out and tried to shoot the mass shooter. After that the mass shooter, pulled his gun on himself and ended his life and stopped short as he had a magazine with 100 rounds in his automatic rifle and obvsiously didn't get a chance to get them all off.

This is coming from someone who hasn't owned a fire arm or rifle for over 40 years. But, I do believe in them.


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## joaquinx

cuylers5746 said:


> . . . signs at the entrance of schools saying our teachers carry fire arms - and the lunatics would look for a safer place to cause mahem.


Lunatics don't display rational thought. The sign would be meaningless to them and could be challenge. Would teachers win out over a lunatic packing an assault rifle and pistols?


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## arturo_b

radmichelle said:


> my husband kris has a 1935 antique mauser rifle inherited, i've come across the rules that firearms and ammunition is illegal and cannot cross the boarder, we also have a hunting crossbow


The Mauser can come in without its firing pin so long as you get a collector's permit from SEDENA (Secretaría de Defensa Nacional, the army). Such permits have to be renewed every year. Check with the Mexican consulate closest to you for the form you'll need to fill out.

As to the crossbow, well, here in Baja California, we have hunting parties in the San Pedro Mártir mountains all the time. Mostly rifles and shotguns. They get a different permit from SEDENA. Here, again, the Mexican consulate will have much more accurate and up-to-date information than a bunch of cranky old ****** ex-pats do.

All the _Sturm und Drang_ you hear about firearms in Mexico comes from people who did not get the appropriate permits before showing up.



FHBOY said:


> Use the search function on the Board. There was a long discussion about firearms in Mexico in the last year or so.


I tried that, didn't find anything. A link would have been more helpful.


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## mickisue1

arturo_b said:


> The Mauser can come in without its firing pin so long as you get a collector's permit from SEDENA (Secretaría de Defensa Nacional, the army). Such permits have to be renewed every year. Check with the Mexican consulate closest to you for the form you'll need to fill out.
> 
> As to the crossbow, well, here in Baja California, we have hunting parties in the San Pedro Mártir mountains all the time. Mostly rifles and shotguns. They get a different permit from SEDENA. Here, again, the Mexican consulate will have much more accurate and up-to-date information than a bunch of cranky old ****** ex-pats do.
> 
> All the _Sturm und Drang_ you hear about firearms in Mexico comes from people who did not get the appropriate permits before showing up.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried that, didn't find anything. A link would have been more helpful.


It's my understanding that the OP wants to come in on a 180 day permit, not a residential one. I would think that the answer, no matter what would be NO to bringing in a firearm.

As for arming those in schools. 

MAYBE a good idea. 

Probably not. The problem is that the idiot NRA wants ONLY that. No increased screening for gun permits. No stopping the madness of selling assault weapons and unlimited ammunition to anyone and everyone. The worst part of the entire thing is that the fool they chose to deliver their message did so in a manner that suggested that the NRA was being picked on, because there have been more and louder calls for more rational gun laws.

We who are still in the US need to take away their power. Too many of us handed it to them, and they decidedly do not deserve it.


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## FHBOY

*Gun Link*

Try 
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/me...-couple-need-info-registering-gun-mexico.html 

for your info on the gun discussion. 

8,000+ views over 100 comments. 

Hope this helps


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## arturo_b

mickisue1 said:


> It's my understanding that the OP wants to come in on a 180 day permit, not a residential one. I would think that the answer, no matter what would be NO to bringing in a firearm.


Migratory status is handled by INM, part of the SRE. Gun permits are handled by SEDENA. Two different authorities.

Fact of the matter is, at least here in Baja California, most ****** gun permits are issued to people with tourist visas. They come here to hunt and then they go back home. Their tour guides usually take care of the paperwork.

The Mauser should not be a problem so long as it´s not functional. I´m not so sure about the crossbow. Consulates can get the necessary permits while ex-pat boards cannot. Ask the consulate. The worst they can say is "no".


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## Infidel_jack

*Firearms in Mexico*

Does anyone have any information on legally owning firearms in Mexico?
Who do you contact for permission and where do you buy arms and ammo?


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## Longford

Infidel_jack said:


> Does anyone have any information on legally owning firearms in Mexico?
> Who do you contact for permission and where do you buy arms and ammo?


Read the materials linked below, and you should have a pretty good idea of the regulations:

Owning a Gun in Mxico - From Rollybrook's Website

Mexico's Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives » Publications » The Federalist Society

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/w...Times Feature Article on Gun Policy in Mexico

Guns in Mexico: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law


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## TundraGreen

For future reference, I added a link to this thread in the FAQ Sticky message.


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## Infidel_jack

Longford said:


> Read the materials linked below, and you should have a pretty good idea of the regulations:
> 
> Owning a Gun in Mxico - From Rollybrook's Website
> 
> Mexico's Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives » Publications » The Federalist Society
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/w...Times Feature Article on Gun Policy in Mexico
> 
> Guns in Mexico: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law


Longford,
Thanks. That is great info. Not what I hoped, but about what I expected.
I saw one very interesting statistic. In 2010 in Mexico, there were @ 11,000 deaths by firearm. Private ownership is 15 firearms per 100.
In the US in 2010 there were about the same number of deaths by firearm but private ownership is 88 per 100.
Maybe, just maybe firearms are not the real problem.


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## Infidel_jack

FHBOY said:


> OFF TOPIC - BUT ANGRY!
> 
> I just read the NRA response to the Newtown tragedy! There are no words to describe the ostrichs that they are. I hold no breach with hunters, let them live and be well, but Holy Cow - their answer to the whole thing (in part) more armed good guys will defend against armed bad guys. Put an armed guard at every school! What not every mall, every moive theatre, evry church, synagogue and mosque, every parking lot, every library, hell why not just put an armed guard on every bus, street corner, train and subway cars!!! Why stop, just give every one in the USA a gun, heck, by their logic there are more Good Guys than Bad Guys so we'll be safer!?!?!?
> 
> I can't go on - it is way too stupid an argument. God save the USA from such thinking!
> 
> SORRY FOR THE RANT - just one more reason I cry for the USA.
> 
> :focus:


Just eliminate gun free zones. That is like advertising for mass murder. Come on over here we are an easy target. Private citizens in the United States own 270,000,000 firearms. The military and police combined only have 4,000,000.
That is 88.8 guns per 100. In 2010 there were 11,000 homicides in which guns were used.
In Mexico with strict gun laws there are only 15 privately owned guns per 100 citizens yet they also had 11,000 homicides where guns were used.
Guns are not the problem.
Now..everything I said is irrelevant in the United States for one reason. The second amendment, ratified 15 December, 1791. It says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a _free State the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
There is no limitation on the type or quantity of arms. There is no provision for ärms control" because this had nothing to do with hunting or even self defense. The second amendment exists because Mason and Madison and others had just fought a war that began on April 18, 1775 when the British attempted to confiscate the colonists arms and Lexington and Concord. The second amend is there to protect the citizen from a lawless government. 
_


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## FHBOY

You know, I'm sitting here in the warm sunshine, away from the threat that if I walked down the street in Baltimore, there was a better chance of me being shot than if I went into the middle of town here to walk around. I am reminded of the four year old girl in Baltimore who was killed on New Years Eve by a stray bullet fired from...wait for it...a gun.

I wonder if the parents of the kids who have been gunned down, either in massacres or in drive bys in the USA, would agree with the right to bear arms argument always put forth.

I wonder if the threat that the right to bear arms folks are talking about, the government, their government, the government of the USA, is really the threat they say it is and that arming themselves for an unforeseeable eventuality, an unreal scenario is worth the price of the real threat - armed USAers having the ability to do the real damage they have already done with no one talking about the real killers - the bullets fired from guns.

I passed a billboard on my way down here, well three actually, that sent a chill up mine and SWMBOs spine. The first was in TN and read "Buy a diamond and get a free shotgun", the second, on the way into Texarkana read, "We customize AR15s starting at $695" with an American flag in the background and lastly was the one with the sexy girl on it, holding a handgun which pointed out at the road saying, "We know how to protect you!"

My answer to the defenders of the right to protect us from ourselves as in a government seizure of ALL the rights in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is no justification for the proliferation of weapons whose sole purpose is to kill other people.

Yes, and I've read the false analogy of cars killing people and such so we need to regulate cars a or ban them [in the first case we already do, we have more laws and regulations on the cars and people who drive them than on gun owners]. Just remember one thing, cars were not built specifically for only one thing, guns are. Their sole purpose is to kill and main, automobile deaths are by and large accidents, the car was not built specifically to kill people.

Well, it is a bright sunny day here and these dark thoughts are best left with others. I will not understand how the deniers of the need to ban assault type weapons in case of an improbable scenario allows them to sleep in the face of the reality, the real threat that is in existence today!

BTW - I am not posting and running away, but I've said all I can about the subject, so on this thread, I will just lurk for a while.


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## mickisue1

Sometimes, too, it's better to just let the illogical arguments fall over of their own weight.


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## Infidel_jack

FHBOY said:


> I will not understand how the deniers of the need to ban assault type weapons in case of an improbable scenario allows them to sleep in the face of the reality, the real threat that is in existence today!


And you never will


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## GARYJ65

My advice; do not try to bring it down here
There are permits that Secretaria de la Defensa Nacional (SEDENA) might issue for hunting purposes, but an old firearm would not pass for that.


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## chicois8

*Your armed neighbors*



FHBOY said:


> You know, I'm sitting here in the warm sunshine, away from the threat that if I walked down the street in Baltimore, there was a better chance of me being shot than if I went into the middle of town here to walk around. I am reminded of the four year old girl in Baltimore who was killed on New Years Eve by a stray bullet fired from...wait for it...a gun.
> 
> I wonder if the parents of the kids who have been gunned down, either in massacres or in drive bys in the USA, would agree with the right to bear arms argument always put forth.
> 
> I wonder if the threat that the right to bear arms folks are talking about, the government, their government, the government of the USA, is really the threat they say it is and that arming themselves for an unforeseeable eventuality, an unreal scenario is worth the price of the real threat - armed USAers having the ability to do the real damage they have already done with no one talking about the real killers - the bullets fired from guns.
> 
> I passed a billboard on my way down here, well three actually, that sent a chill up mine and SWMBOs spine. The first was in TN and read "Buy a diamond and get a free shotgun", the second, on the way into Texarkana read, "We customize AR15s starting at $695" with an American flag in the background and lastly was the one with the sexy girl on it, holding a handgun which pointed out at the road saying, "We know how to protect you!"
> 
> My answer to the defenders of the right to protect us from ourselves as in a government seizure of ALL the rights in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is no justification for the proliferation of weapons whose sole purpose is to kill other people.
> 
> Yes, and I've read the false analogy of cars killing people and such so we need to regulate cars a or ban them [in the first case we already do, we have more laws and regulations on the cars and people who drive them than on gun owners]. Just remember one thing, cars were not built specifically for only one thing, guns are. Their sole purpose is to kill and main, automobile deaths are by and large accidents, the car was not built specifically to kill people.
> 
> Well, it is a bright sunny day here and these dark thoughts are best left with others. I will not understand how the deniers of the need to ban assault type weapons in case of an improbable scenario allows them to sleep in the face of the reality, the real threat that is in existence today!
> 
> BTW - I am not posting and running away, but I've said all I can about the subject, so on this thread, I will just lurk for a while.



The funny thing is you moved to an expat area where I believe the are more exUS military 
retirees than any other part of Mexico, there are probably more hand guns per household in the Chapala area than the rest of Mexico ...


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## mickisue1

chicois8 said:


> The funny thing is you moved to an expat area where I believe the are more exUS military
> retirees than any other part of Mexico, there are probably more hand guns per household in the Chapala area than the rest of Mexico ...


Given the rather harsh laws in MX regarding firearms...do you really think so?


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## Infidel_jack

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State. the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be abridged.

The American Revolution began on April 18, 1775 when the government attempted to confiscate the citizen's weapons. There is no constitutional limit on either they type or number of weapons a United States citizen may own or where he/she make take those weapons within the jurisdiction of the United States.
I believe the "gun free zones" are unconstitutional until the United States Constitution is lawfully amended.
The second amendment is not for hunters and self defense was a secondary reason. The primary reason for the second amendment was to protect the citizens and the states from a lawless central government like the current and and every previous regime since 1901 save Ronald Reagan, William Howard Taft and Calvin Coolidge.
I am not a Republican. I support and defend the United States Constitution and neither political party is currently doing that. Most sitting members of Congress, the courts and the executive have betrayed their oath of office.


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## GARYJ65

I´m lost now, the post was about bringing a gun down to Mexico
Nothing to do with gun laws in the USA



Infidel_jack said:


> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State. the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be abridged.
> 
> The American Revolution began on April 18, 1775 when the government attempted to confiscate the citizen's weapons. There is no constitutional limit on either they type or number of weapons a United States citizen may own or where he/she make take those weapons within the jurisdiction of the United States.
> I believe the "gun free zones" are unconstitutional until the United States Constitution is lawfully amended.
> The second amendment is not for hunters and self defense was a secondary reason. The primary reason for the second amendment was to protect the citizens and the states from a lawless central government like the current and and every previous regime since 1901 save Ronald Reagan, William Howard Taft and Calvin Coolidge.
> I am not a Republican. I support and defend the United States Constitution and neither political party is currently doing that. Most sitting members of Congress, the courts and the executive have betrayed their oath of office.


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## chicois8

GARYJ65 said:


> I´m lost now, the post was about bringing a gun down to Mexico
> Nothing to do with gun laws in the USA


Gary, almost every thread gets hijacked on this forum...


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## TundraGreen

Infidel_jack said:


> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State. the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be abridged.
> 
> The American Revolution began on April 18, 1775 when the government attempted to confiscate the citizen's weapons. There is no constitutional limit on either they type or number of weapons a United States citizen may own or where he/she make take those weapons within the jurisdiction of the United States.
> I believe the "gun free zones" are unconstitutional until the United States Constitution is lawfully amended.
> The second amendment is not for hunters and self defense was a secondary reason. The primary reason for the second amendment was to protect the citizens and the states from a lawless central government like the current and and every previous regime since 1901 save Ronald Reagan, William Howard Taft and Calvin Coolidge.
> I am not a Republican. I support and defend the United States Constitution and neither political party is currently doing that. Most sitting members of Congress, the courts and the executive have betrayed their oath of office.


Tell us what you really think.


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## Infidel_jack

TundraGreen said:


> Tell us what you really think.


I call the Supreme Court of the United States, the Supreme Injustices, Will. They have been ignoring or rewriting the Constitution since the 1930's in violation of their Oath. Those on the bench that refuses to protect and defend the United States Constitution as it is written and amended should be impeached.
Unfortunately, that will not happen.


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## ehw23

Yes. It is legal to bring certain firearms in for certain reasons. That is the right answer.
Just be prepared to do your HW or face consequences. Double check too!

As one poster said, you can go through SEDENA if you want to bring a firearm into the country but I would probably double check on both sides before doing it. I know it has to be within a certain length (the barrel) and I am sure there are other restrictions. 

There are many law abiding citizens in Mexico who have firearms. .. especially away from the city. Citizens are starting to gather together and form their own type of police-protection for their little towns or colonias in certain areas throughout Mexico because of the violence. They are fed up with it. They have reported on it and it shows pictures and videos of these citizens with guns in hand making their own checkpoints (now thats awesome). Police know it and they respect it so they let them go about their business. 

Depending on where you were is probably a big factor. Not saying go and break the law, but there are many firearms out in Mexico possessed by good people. If someone wanted badly enough, they could attain one without issue (quite risky depending on the circumstances). 

Jon Hammars situation was a bit gray but who knows who told the whole story. Apparently there was a discrepancy in the barrel length because Mexico had said they measured the barrel length from a different spot on the rifle than they should have done (so gray area for me). His mistake was relying on US sources and authorities for Mexican law! I dont know about you but if I want to bring in a legal firearm into Mexico, I AM GOING TO MEXICAN AUTHORITIES OR MEXICAN HANDBOOK BY LAW TO ASK THEM THE REQUIREMENTS, NOT USA.


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## mickisue1

Read the comments by people who are familiar with that particular entry point. They state that there are multiple signs on the US side warning people from trying to bring guns into MX.

In addition, he was trying to get by without declaring the gun. 

In addition to that, the man suffers from PTSD. What the hell was his mom thinking, giving him Grandpa's gun?


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