# looking for another point of view



## april (Jul 22, 2007)

I am an Aussie who has been living in Japan for several years. Among the expat international community here (which is very tight) there has been a billion discussions on Japanese people, the culture, daily life, and so on. Mostly it is a lot of gripes starting with "Why do Japanese people always....?!?!"; as people go through culture shock and try to make sense of their new surroundings.

I am curious to hear about the other side of the coin. What do expats in Australia think of Australian people and life? What is your pet peeve about Australia? What can't you fathom? What stuff do Australian's do that seems ridiculous to you? What do you dislike about Australian people? 

When I hit the 4 month mark of living in Japan I made a long list of stuff I hated about Japan, didn't understand, thought was dumb etc, (because it actually helped me improve my attitude!) so I would like to know what is on your list about Australia. 

When I go back for holidays I notice a few things I don't like so much about my home country, stuff I never noticed before. 

Please be brutally honest! I am extremely interested to know. i think it will be therapeutic for me when I have a 'bad-Japan' day.


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## Baby75 (Jul 18, 2007)

april said:


> I am an Aussie who has been living in Japan for several years. Among the expat international community here (which is very tight) there has been a billion discussions on Japanese people, the culture, daily life, and so on. Mostly it is a lot of gripes starting with "Why do Japanese people always....?!?!"; as people go through culture shock and try to make sense of their new surroundings.
> 
> I am curious to hear about the other side of the coin. What do expats in Australia think of Australian people and life? What is your pet peeve about Australia? What can't you fathom? What stuff do Australian's do that seems ridiculous to you? What do you dislike about Australian people?
> 
> ...


Hi
My husband was over in Brisbane visiting his best friend and he loved it we had planned to be over there for good but it didn't work out so we are heading over in April. 
this is what he loved
the people found them really friendly and welcoming
the weather
found it very good value for money (ireland aint cheap)
bbq and the fact he could get a decent size steak
jack Daniels and coke in a can  
the country very beautiful he loved the sunshine coast and Earlie beach
the out door life actually every thing he loved every thing

the only thing that bothered him 
was he sun rising at 5 in the morning but in saying that he just got up and went for a swim or that .he said it was easy to get used to

he did say it got a bit annoying one night when he was asked to say top of the morning to ya were ever he went...

so i hope that helps what do you not like when you go home


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

That would be so annoying! And I can totally see people asking him to say that.....probably ten years ago I would have been one of those people 

Okay, some things that I noticed (I am from a small country town, btw):

- The overly-friendly shop assistants who wanted to chit chat about nothing in particular even when I was just browsing. At first I thought it was a refreshing change from robotic-like Japanese shop assistants, but after the 3rd or 4th shop it just got annoying.

- the way people walked: slowly and swayed from side to side, meaning that to pass by I had to make a wide berth otherwise I'd bump into them.

- And I know this is going to make some people pissed off - but being surrounded by the Aussie accent...it just grated on my ears. I never realised how strong and nasal it was. Though when I am in Tokyo I love to hear it as it makes me feel homesick. My own accent, though still Aussie, has softened, as has most people's native country accent has in Japan. 

American people told me that they really got sick and tired of Aussies having a go at them for being American. They said they never let up on it. 

Oh and here is another thing I am very curious to know - do Australians always joke about foreigners trying vegemite? In Japan they have 'natto' which is fermented soya beans and many Japanese love it and eat it every day. I have been asked a thousand times "Can you eat natto?? <snicker snicker>" and I have to play along with their 'joke' to be polite, even though I hear this constantly! Is it ditto with the vegemite?


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh yeah - this is the big thing that bothers me about Australia - all this terrorism fear-mongering crap that is on the news all the time and how the PM uses it to promote himself. It really REALLY bothers me because I honestly believe it is political propaganda.


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## newtoOZ (May 24, 2007)

Well, not only do we get ragged constantly about being American, but it is always the same old stuff, McDonalds and Starbucks. If that were the worst thing we had ever foisted on the world, I'd feel pretty good about. We don't 'take the piss out of' each other the way you guys do, so that makes it doubly hard. And of course, everyone thinks they invented all this stuff and we've never ever heard it before.

And, by the way, you have more McDonalds than I have ever seen anywhere.


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## Hazel (May 30, 2007)

*You asked for a brutally honest answer*

Please will nobody jump down my throat for this. I am just anwering the question and obviously it is just MY opinion. I think that the Australian way of life is excellent: I love the way they jump on the littlest issues (eg. watching for people not putting coins in the parking meters) because taking care of small misdemeanours automatically strongly discourages greater incidences of lawlessness. 
On Australians as a people (I beg you not to flame me for this): I find them to be beautiful-but-oh-so-boring. Literally. I think they are very, very good looking as a nation, but I find their conversation to be about nothing! They just um and ah and yeah and hmmmm with bits of conversation about the weather and school and that's it. I feel that they are just not very passionate about anything except for sports. I try to start a conversation and it just never "lifts off". Please tell me if ******anyone****** on this forum can relate to what I'm saying????? I'd say I can't fathom that....almost like no one gets worked up (in a positive or negative way) about any thing at all. I also can't fathom all the red tape. I feel like I have to jump through a million hoops before I can get anything done. 
I don't like they way Aussie kids don't seem to value their toys that their parents buy them....also the coins their parents give them...can't understand it....$1 and $2 coins are given to 5 year olds and they just sprinkle them around and totally don't appreciate it.
What I just love about Australians is how they never show off and how a little goes a long way. BONUS : -D!!!! I'm referring to kids' birthday parties or a dressup day....oh my gosh...no one goes out of there way...so that is really a huge relief for me. Obviously there are a zillion things I *adore* about Australia. That's why I'm here! I am just answering the very valid question by April (who sounds passionate ; -)).


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

So Australia has got Starbucks now?? I am so out of touch! I am addicted to the sugar donuts they have in the Tokyo Starbucks. And I agree that some Aussies are very much like Canadians when it comes to the small-country syndrome. 
NewtoOz - the next time some one rags on your for being America, I suggest you say something really derogatory about Australians, then pause a moment, laugh loudly, slap them on the bag and say "Only taking the piss mate!!"

Hazel - you have opened my eyes!! I constantly get frustrated at my (Japanese adults) students for not having an opinion or seeming to care about anything at all except long discussions about food and hot spring resorts. Thank you for giving me some perspective because, now that I think about it, it is true - most people I know back home only talk about the little things in life. And now I can recall that my friends back home used to ask me constantly: "Why do you care anyway?? It is nothing to get worked up about!" and my Japanese friends say similar stuff to me. So I would love to know which country I would fit in.

Regarding red tape...I didn't know that about Australia. I always complain about the Japanese red tape. To get my working visa renewed I have to...well nevermind; I won't bore you all with the details. Let's just say the process involves many steps that must be done in order and a lot of waiting around. 

Keep 'em coming! Please don't hesitate to write a long list, I won't hold it against you. Being critical doesn't mean the same as insulting.


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## newtoOZ (May 24, 2007)

My employer took care of most of the red tape for me. But I remember there being a lot of paperwork involved in getting a bank account, like it was some sort of great privilege or something. But maybe that's just a mixed up memory because I was jet-lagged when it all happened.

I did hear someone complain about having to get a new passport because their pages were all used up. Besides thinking, 'Must be nice', I was surprised. We can get pages added to ours.


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## Hazel (May 30, 2007)

*For April*

You've made me a little bit braver for not taking offense . I would like to ask a question....actually anyone who knows the answer could help me out here....I cannot seem to fathom the Australian sense of humour. Besides Dame Edna (who as far as I'm concerned is hilarious because "she" has more of a British sense of humour) I don't seem to really catch on when I'm in a group of Aussies and they laugh. To my ignorant mind, it appears that they are laughing at nothing....just for the sake of laughing. Am I blind/missing something or will I eventually click? An Aussie asked me what I considered to be was funny and I answered "The Simpsons" and she said, "nah, we don't find American humour funny. That's too slap stick". I was going huh??? I love American humour!! To me that's not slap stick. But we were having an honest conversation so I told her that sometimes the Aussie sense of humour seems very lame. She answered that that is the whole point. I asked if they are laughing at the actual lame joke, or the fact that someone dared to be lame. She didn't really give me an answer....she just said it'd take me a few years to get it. Boo hoo, I don't wanna wait a few years!! I want to understand and be NORMAL, lol. I also find Monty Python to be hilarious...Borat too. Tell me April, what do YOU find funny? And to anyone else reading this, please shine some light on this subject...anything at all...I am curious what you think and feel.


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

Mmmm....the Aussie humour. I agree that it is definitely lame, and people laugh at the lameness. What age group are you talking about? The stuff that my baby boomer parents and their friends laugh about when gathered socially, I think is dumb, like an incredibly lame effort at humour; which I call 'old-man humour'. The sort of humour that makes me shudder inside when I feel obligated to smile and give a half-laugh.
But Aussie humour like Kath and Kim and movies such as The Castle, I think is hilarious. 

When I am with my friends we laugh at a lot of in-jokes that seem to continue for months or even years, so to anybody else listening in, Australian or not, they won't understand why we suddenly start laugh hysterically. 

Have you read the Bill Bryson book "Down Under", I suggest you do. Also, a tiny book called "Xenophobe's guide to the Aussies" is quite spot-on. Despite what the title suggests, it is actually a light-hearted take on Australians. They have a series on different countries.

This is what it says about the Aussie humour:
"To live in Australia, Aussies have to have a sense of humour. It's a cheap form of entertainment and helps pass the time. Their sardonic and laconic attitude creeps into every conversation. If you display any form of weakness they will tear at it like a dog with a bone.
This irreverent and ruthless lot will aim their jokes at any country and people with any advantage or disadvantage. This is not a back-stabbing population. They will tell anti-English jokes to the English, anti-Irish jokes to the Irish and Ethiopian jokes to anorexics. .....The Aussies can laugh at themselves but of course, with their isolation they have often had little choice. But beware, they don't care for outsiders to do it."


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh and also, i disagree with your friends - Aussies love The Simpsons!!! I don't think it is slap-stick. What I think your friend meant to say was that American humour is often sarcastic, which doesn't sit well with many Aussies. 

And another thing I just thought of - I don't know how it is now in Australia (I've been in Japan several years), but they aren't politically correct. Over here many Aussies get told-off (by usually Americans) for using the word 'Jap' For many Aussies, terms like Jap, Yank, Pom etc are not offensive.


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## Hazel (May 30, 2007)

April, you wanted to know what age group I was talking about when it came to humour: I was talking about 35 years plus....but also referring to the adverts / commercials showing on TV.

Thank you for explaining....it makes sense about the in-jokes. Maybe that's what I am not responding to (naturally, how could I?) and just didn't put two and two together. Makes perfect sense! My mind is going back to shared conversations among the school moms...most of the moms seem have known each other longer than from the beginning of grade 1.

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't read the books you mentioned. I'll keep my eyes open for them at my local library. Right now my need for knowledge about Aussie culture in insatiable. I did notice that Aussies are not politically correct at all and some comments had me clenching my butt in anxiety mixed with a little bit of thrill. I thought to myself how freeing to be able to just call a spade a spade. Still can't do it though. I don't have the guts ahahaha. 

When you mentioned that sarcasm doesn't go down well with the Aussies I went oh, oh, oh let me jump on here and say OH HELL how I got myself some horrid looks the first couple of times I was sarcastic...I was like..uhhh ohhhh, I made a social faux pas....didn't know what it was exactly that offended the first time but then the second time I knew it just had to be sarcasm. I think that's what i miss about home, the sarcastic sense of humour that can be a bit biting at times but so witty too.....as long as I'm not the recipient, ehehe. I know that doesn't sound nice...so I think at the end of the day the Aussies are a nicer lot....I wish I could remember what I said....it was right in the beginning...hmmm..just remember some awkward silence and some shuffling around in the seats....ooooh <cringe>. Sometimes I feel that if I use big physical gestures like jumping up and down with excitement it scares Aussies a bit. I have stopped that kind of behaviour all together....any kind of behaviour that is too excitable or enthusiastic seems to be met with reserve. Does this ring any bells for you? Well, all I can say is I wish I had a little manual upon arriving in Oz that went something like this: 
1. Do not get too excited or enthusiastic in public - even if it includes being really happy with what your hairdresser has done to your hair. A quiet, "That's great. Thankyou very much." will suffice.
2. Do not be sarcastic....EVER! No matter how tempting.
3. Do not be shocked when you see women over 40 in really realllly tiny shorts....do not judge...they are simply very hot in the summer.
4. Do not jump into hotel pools...even your children must not dive, or let out a yelp in the hotel pools...quietly does it. This was a big culture shock for me.. ..I really didn't understand why I was getting such filthy looks when my 6 year old kept jumping in the pool. Where I'm from that's what pools are for.
5. Do not over react to bad language...just see it as words..nothing more
6. Burping....just ignore it....It's seen as fine as long as the perp (lol) says pardon me. Where I'm from you just don't! Ahaha. Now I hardly even notice it any more...all the kids burp very freely here.
7. Be patient in queues. Wait your turn...it will come ....even if you feel ignored....I'm talking about when you want to say, speak to a sales man at a vacuum cleaner shop.
8. Be aware of all the pedestrians when driving....be very careful especially at crossings....they don't even look sometimes....they just walk.

That's all I can think of for now. I should have had a journal...I laugh now when I read these points I made...especially #4. Now it just seems normal to me.

I could also list a whole lot of pleasant shocks, for example how honest and helpful Aussies are....but those just aren't what my point is about. I do have to say though, that I feel that if I asked an Aussie for help and I really needed it, they'd help me. I have had so much kindness and love extended to me when I first landed. You would not believe me if I told you....you'd think I was trying to sell something. I am still really moved when I remember.....I'll just give you ONE example: a woman gave my family $100 and 3 cut price tickets to Movie World out of the goodness of her heart. She wanted no repayment....I can vouch for that because that was 5 months ago. She gave me this $100 in $1 coins....she collected them and gave them to me. I was moved to tears. She said she saw how we were battling financially and wanted to give us a fun day out. Wow. I know I said I wouldn't give more examples but I can't resist saying that the reason we hardly had to buy any school uniforms apart from a couple of second hand items was because a work colleague of hubby's just gave him a bag of stuff....this man didn't even know us at the time....he only asked that we give it back when our child outgrew it. I think I'll stop now before I bore everyone. But I do have many more real acts of kindness shown to me that I'll never, ever forget.


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## newtoOZ (May 24, 2007)

The politically correct thing is a problem for me. While it is all well and good for you Aussies to declare that you don't mean anything by 'Jap', you aren't the ones that get to decide that. The Japanese are. Now, if all the Japanese tourists and businesspeople have been tellling you its just fine, go at it. But the members of a group get to decide what they find offensive, not the people doing the name-calling.


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

PC language is definitely an American cultural thing that has spread to some parts of the world, but not everywhere. Here in Japan it is almost non-existent. I personally find it repressive and along the lines of censorship. But on the up-side, its existence does make South Park that much more funny! 

I have to laugh at your post Hazel - burping!!! I totally forgot how openly people burp in Australia!! Here in Japan it is the same as farting loudly. Back home I (now) remember I used to openly burp and not think anything of it, of course if I forgot to say "scuse me", someone else would pipe up with: "Excuuuuuse you!" or "Pardon pigs and hogs!" But here I have conformed to Japanese social standards and I am horrified if one gets past me. I have never ever heard a Japanese person burp - not even my boyfriend! (who, incidently, does bottom burp in front of me).

Jumping into the pool....it's a no-no? really?? My family always jumps into the pool, but then again, we have never stayed at hotels with a pool in Australia, so I don't know what the social protocol is. I grew up in country Queensland and always had a pool in the backyard. In summer Dad had to keep the hose running in it to keep the water level topped up with all the splashing we did!

And once again you have opened my eyes up - I always comment that Japanese people show very little emotion, no facial reaction at all and limited gestures, even when startled. I never realised that Australians also have limited display of feeling. But now that I think of it....I never see my relatives show much emotion....mmm...!

btw....McDonalds.....here in Japan people sometimes say: "Japanese eat healthy food! Foreigners eat fattening food like MacDonalds!" my reply: "Oh really?? Then who is eating at the 3500+ MacDonald restaurants in Japan then??" hee hee! I love being narky sometimes!


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## newtoOZ (May 24, 2007)

It amazes me that you think that referring to other people by names that they consider derogatory is OK. But I do see that you have derogatory nicknames for people and everyone is OK with it, so maybe you don't think anyone else is offended. We don't do that in the US much. I once had a long, well, almost argument with a woman who wanted to know what my knickname was back home. I told her, and it's just a shortened form of my full name. No, she wanted to know my _nickname_. I told her again. No, the name all the kids called you in grade school. I told her again. She could not grasp that I didn't have some insulting name that I was openly called, and that none of my classmates did either. I guess that if you insult each other, you don't worry about insulting other people.

And the 'politically correct' think, while it is now carried to extremes, was originally intended to make racial and ethnic slurs unacceptable. Because they aren't OK, just because the person dishes them out has decided they are. I mean, would you really refer to a Chinese immigrant as a "*****"?

You do know that 'gaijin' is in that category, don't you, right up with what we euphemisically refer to as 'the n-word' in the US?


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

Wow you have suddenly made it so personal against me! 
And patronising to boot!


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## Hazel (May 30, 2007)

New2Oz, do you *mean* to sound intimidating? You sound really intelligent but scary! Lol. Or is this yet another culture barrier (misinterpreting your tone)? I'm not trying to sound like a smarty pants (hope *my* tone isn't misinterpreted)....but you often come across as extemely annoyed.


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## newtoOZ (May 24, 2007)

Well, let's see, I'm reading a post from someone who thinks that ethnic slurs are OK.


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## Hazel (May 30, 2007)

But new2Oz, I didn't interpret April's comments to mean that SHE personally approves of the "racial slurring"...I just thought that she was saying what Aussies in general feel. I for one am glad that April is making it easier for expats to understand the Aussie way of thinking. Oh well, whatever. Just my two cents worth. I'm sure that each and every nation has certain ways that would be considered flaws by outsiders. I'd just like to ask April not to run away and to carry on sharing with us. I can't be the only one who really wants to to hear what April has to say??


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

No worries, I am still here! 
Newtooz has gotta check his reading comprehension. Also I wanna say something Aussie now: "Settle down mate."

I don't want this thread to be hijacked by the ongoing PC debate so I am just gonna leave it at that. Anyway - Wikipedia has info on the debate. I am on the negative side, he is on the affirmative.


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## newtoOZ (May 24, 2007)

Her.

Sorry, I did get carried away there.


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## Hazel (May 30, 2007)

Lol New2Oz..I *thought* you were a her because we girls love our chocolate (Reeces Pieces). Hope you have a great day


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

Okay fair enough. 

So let's get back to the issue - what other culture shock pet peeves do people have?


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