# Looking to buy in Abruzzo



## AJORDAN

Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion. 
Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra? 
Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
Andrea


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## NickZ

End of August is high tourist season still. Honestly no point coming unless you want to bake on the beach. Wait a few more weeks and come then. 

It's a big region. Have you narrowed it down any?


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## AJORDAN

NickZ said:


> End of August is high tourist season still. Honestly no point coming unless you want to bake on the beach. Wait a few more weeks and come then.
> 
> It's a big region. Have you narrowed it down any?


We travel out on the 31st, so I'm hoping the holiday season may have cooled off a little, still hoping for a few days baking myself.
Although we are staying in Roseto, I've seen a few properties in and around the Montorio al Vomano, Penne Sant Andrea etc area. We can only fly from Bristol and arrive in at Ciampino Rome, we don't really want to travel more than 1hr 30 from the airport, as initially this will be a holiday home, hopefully one day full time!


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## NickZ

Does that mean you can't fly into Pescara? 90 minutes should be long enough to get to the coast by car from Rome. Isn't it?


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## bunty16

*Just moved to Abruzzo from uk*



AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


Myself and my husband have moved to Caporcianno near to Laquila, I have plenty of advice for you, but would rather tell you via e-mail. It is a beautiful part of the world and I do not regret buying, however some of my experiences may be helpful to you. Where in the uk do you live? Bunty.


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## AJORDAN

bunty16 said:


> Myself and my husband have moved to Caporcianno near to Laquila, I have plenty of advice for you, but would rather tell you via e-mail. It is a beautiful part of the world and I do not regret buying, however some of my experiences may be helpful to you. Where in the uk do you live? Bunty.


Hi Bunty
How's it going out there? I'd be glad of any advice although have no clue how to get my e-mail to you, I'd rather not post it on here?
We are currently in avillage just outside Tiverton, Devon. Originally from Bury Manchester though, We must just have itchy feet! Andrea


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## bunty16

AJORDAN said:


> Hi Bunty
> How's it going out there? I'd be glad of any advice although have no clue how to get my e-mail to you, I'd rather not post it on here?
> We are currently in avillage just outside Tiverton, Devon. Originally from Bury Manchester though, We must just have itchy feet! Andrea


Good to get your reply. I dont know either how to get email address without putting it on this sight, a chap from america was able to do it, so when I e-mail him I will ask. Firstly, do you know Mark & Sharon? Mark is originally from Bury, but now lives in Australia. They have just been over for a week and got stranded due to volcanic ash, however, they should be on their way back today. Please ask away any questions you have regarding this big step. Are you planning to molve here permanently or have just a holiday home?People in our village are starting to get repairs done following the earthquake. Our village did not suffer any fatalities, and damage was much less than other villages, so much destruction of beautiful buildings, but the people here have a fantastic attitude, the do not winge or complain, just get on with things!.Strange you live in Tiverton, we are looking for retirement appartment in Wellington, we did plan to retire wholetime, but my husband became unwell and does not feel able to stay all the time for now, he thinks our language skills and knowledge of area need to be improved before he will come back here. I stay 2-3 weeks in Italy and home to uk for 2 weeks, so I suppose I have the best of both worlds. Have you chosen any properties to view? if so where will you be looking? If visiting Caporcianno (a fantastic place!!) please be sure to let me know.There are some steps you need to be wary of, but in all, I am not sorry we bought our place. Will only be able to respond next week as dependent on commune free internet access, and I dont like to keep bothering them. They do not complain, but I just keep it to around twice a week, which is adequate for my needs. Keep in touch.


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## Philipsal

*Moving To Abruzzo*



AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


Hello Andrea, I am also thinking of moving to Abruzzo. I am leaving this Sat. May 1 to May 12. I am meeting with 2 different agencies while I am there. Lets stay in touch and I will share my experience with you. I also welcome any advice from folks that can help.


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## Philipsal

I am coming to Abruzzo May 1 to May 12 to look for property to move there. Where is your BB? Perhaps we can meet and talk about Real Estate there....the coffee is on me. I could use some insider savvy. THANK YOU


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## Philipsal

we are in the center of abbruzzo above chieti you can reach both borders of of abruzzo in an hour and a halve thats why we choose to live here 15 mins ski 20 mins sea 35 mins aiport 15 mins good hospital these all need considering when you look for a house[/quote]

I will look you up and give you a ring....THANKS!


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## bunty16

Philipsal said:


> Hello Andrea, I am also thinking of moving to Abruzzo. I am leaving this Sat. May 1 to May 12. I am meeting with 2 different agencies while I am there. Lets stay in touch and I will share my experience with you. I also welcome any advice from folks that can help.


Hello, I moved to the area in December 09, so any infor/advice I can give


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## Philipsal

Yes, Thank you....Which agency has the best reputation for being honest with Americans? Do you know of an agent? Also, I know this is much to ask, I am staying at the RIO Hotel in Vasto Marina. If you are near maybe I could meet you for a coffee and you can tell me what you know about moving there. I want to be well informed when i make a decision to move there.


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## bunty16

Philipsal said:


> Yes, Thank you....Which agency has the best reputation for being honest with Americans? Do you know of an agent? Also, I know this is much to ask, I am staying at the RIO Hotel in Vasto Marina. If you are near maybe I could meet you for a coffee and you can tell me what you know about moving there. I want to be well informed when i make a decision to move there.


I am not sure how to get to Vasto Marina, please contact me by priv ate message re this site (not sure how to do it myself) and include your e-mail address, this is often much quicker than having to keep logging into this site. I live in the Abruzzo area, so not sure where you are. I hope that my information will be useful to you. When choosing an agency it is best to use your own geometra, as if connected they are in the business of selling the the property, go for all independant advice, from ,building work to interpretor, you can end up paying a lot more if you do not, I have not had any serious problems myself, but others have told me tales of exploitation, and conflicting building costs/standards of work. Local reccomendations are best, try and stay in village/town before final act, get to know the locals who will make you very welcome, ask at local builders yard for reliable workers.


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## vedaandmatt

*happy with my choice!!*

Hi there, 
I have been searching and searching ....travelled and travelled....then I finally found the perfect home. I bought it and im now done and dusted with surveys, surveyors, notary and so on... I was helpd by Sweet Italy Estates, the office is in Vasto (cant remember the address now ... :-(( ) check them out Sweet Italy Estates - The biggest address in Italian Properties Very helpful...hope you ll have the same experience ))

Ciao !!!





AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


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## Philipsal

Here is my email. [email protected] I can see my mail on my blackberry so send me a message and maybe we can meet up for coffee. You can tell me what you know about moving here and purchasing property. I look forward to your message. CIAO


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## Philipsal

Thank you very much for the advice. I am working now with 2 agencies here in Abruzzo. I will look up your recomended agency now and see if I can contact them. CIAO


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## ksesock

*Abruzzo Move*

Bunty, my wife and I are hopefully going to be retiring in Abruzzo , a ways off, 2018. I noticed you replied to a post a while back and you said you would e-mail that person with details of your move and the area. Would it possible to get some info from you regarding details about your move, the area, etc. Thanks in advance, Ken and Josephine


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## Guido

To contemplate buying property in the abruzzo region right now, by which i mean in the wake of the earthquake, is a bit rash in my opinion, and was probably a pretty silly idea even before the quake, given the history of the region for such things, but it's your money. 

Then you have to consider the question of who you are dealing with - we dealt with a company with which you are familiar who employ very unscrupulous scouts who basically sold us a 'pig in a poke' (I assume you're being from Devon you will know what i mean!) 

Good luck, but bear in mind that any 'old' building is probably going to be far from earthquake proof and things have tightened up as a result of the earthquake - no local 'geometra' worth his salt will give the go-ahead to work that isn't up to scratch regulation-wise, which means practically re-building any property that is in need of substantial repairs. Should those who wish to sell the property assure you that there is no problem with permissions etc, remember the simple rule - 'buyer beware'. 

Looking back i can see that i was completely bamboozled, despite speaking reasonable italian, and what amazes me in retrospect was my naivety, but hey, i'm too old to pretend i didn't know better. Maybe this is just sour grapes on my part, and i could certainly buy a lot of grapes with the money i have lost, but i have reflected long and hard on my experience, and come to the conclusion that italy is a great place to visit, but not necessarily to own property, no matter how tempting it is. 

Guido


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## bunty16

AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED) I can identify with you, I started off not speaking much Italian, my advice is to learn as much as you can otherwise you risk being exploited and being charged english prices builders, interpretation fees etc., It is possible to survive on a simple day to day basis with little Italian, but it is very difficult for more complicated conversations. We had our Italian dictionary (bible). The agency will provide an interpretor at the completion, in fact you will have to have this an it doesnt come cheap, the agency should have english speaking staff, houses aroun italy did. My advice would be to get an independt solicitor and geometra, as they would want the sale of the house to go through, you might not like what they say, but better to have that advice an act on it. Another thing, it all happens in a few weeks an does not give you much time to draw breath, do not let them rush you, you can bet the house has been on the market for a while, an having them wait will not harm! good luck, let me know where you are looking, an when.please excuse lack of `d`, this key not working well, an it's a new computor!


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## bunty16

Guido said:


> To contemplate buying property in the abruzzo region right now, by which i mean in the wake of the earthquake, is a bit rash in my opinion, and was probably a pretty silly idea even before the quake, given the history of the region for such things, but it's your money.
> 
> Then you have to consider the question of who you are dealing with - we dealt with a company with which you are familiar who employ very unscrupulous scouts who basically sold us a 'pig in a poke' (I assume you're being from Devon you will know what i mean!)
> 
> Good luck, but bear in mind that any 'old' building is probably going to be far from earthquake proof and things have tightened up as a result of the earthquake - no local 'geometra' worth his salt will give the go-ahead to work that isn't up to scratch regulation-wise, which means practically re-building any property that is in need of substantial repairs. Should those who wish to sell the property assure you that there is no problem with permissions etc, remember the simple rule - 'buyer beware'. You seem to have had quite an experience! I concerns, and find not many risk free places in the world, and earthquakes happen all around the world frequently, also floods etc.,
> 
> Looking back i can see that i was completely bamboozled, despite speaking reasonable italian, and what amazes me in retrospect was my naivety, but hey, i'm too old to pretend i didn't know better. Maybe this is just sour grapes on my part, and i could certainly buy a lot of grapes with the money i have lost, but i have reflected long and hard on my experience, and come to the conclusion that italy is a great place to visit, but not necessarily to own property, no matter how tempting it is.
> 
> Guido


I share your concerns, an let my heart rule my head when buying my house, yes it is in an earthquake zone, but to me the good things outway the bad, and I have been able to get insurance. There are many english an american people viewing houses, so I am glad I am not the only mad person. Where did you buy your property?. I would advise anyone to get an inependant geometra, an not one connected to an agency, also a solicitor, although the latter is not really required if the sale straightforward, I did have concerns during the process an nearly pulled out a few times, but the speed of the process helped me loose commonsense, however, I woul not be without my house, I love it an the local people are fantastic, I do wonder at some of the ex-pats though!! and now starting to discriminate a little more, an not be desperate for any moving object that speaks english! please excuse lack of `d's` new computor playing up


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## GuidoandGillian

Just one point that i would want to comment on - you mention the 'speed of the process' - who, do you think, wants the process to be so speedy? Not the buyer, that's for sure. But the 'process' is designed to suit the vendor, and the notary system is absolutely lethal in my opinion - no one who isn't used to such a system can possibly understand it, let along handle it - you can get all the advice you want, and maybe even insure your property to the nth degree, but it won't make any difference if things go wrong - then you find you are a foreigner in a foreign country, and you haven't a leg to stand on. which is why i maintain that it is foolish to buy in italy, particularly in an area that has just suffered a catastrophic earthquake. that's my view, for what it's worth. 
G.


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## GuidoandGillian

AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


As a quite drunk, " large", Irish "business" woman once said to me in a castle hotel restaurant in Loreta Aprutino "Well you can buy a "pig in a poke" in England as well as in Abruzzo" I think that woman knew very well what a pig in a poke was. 


Any one who has property out there would probably agree with the following:- 

- Whatever it costs it is too high a cost, half it then half it again and that is probably too much. 
- However much they say it will cost to repair times it by four at least 
- What is above, underneath and to the side of your property? It is almost certainly a deadly liability. When they say an area is going to be rebuilt, regenerated or renovated - it almost certainly won't be. 
- Builders and Geometras have formed a newxxxx alliance in the wake of the earthquake - think of the british builder scratchy head sharp intake of breath scenario and times it by 20. 
- Is the estate agent you use qualified. I mean an actual professional estate agency qualification that means something and you can look it up. If not then that means something, because noone professional will touch them. Honestly it does. It doesnt matter that they have been on TV. Lots of very dodgy people have been on TV. 
- Most of the Abruzzo lies in the RED EARTHQUAKE ZONE. You can google this quite easily. Most Italians from Rome, the really smart money, are buying up land but not property. (who runs this website??) A lot of the Abruzzo lies on a fault line. 
- Selling off old property to foreigners is quite a good income generator for towns in Italy and some estate agents and mayors of towns would, I imagine but couldn't possibly say for sure, be quite friendly. After all, one can only imagine that it would be quite beneficial to some people. 
- If you just have to go ahead and buy then take a lot of time to do so. Don't rush. Noone else it going to buy it, honestly. It wont be worth anything once you have bought it anyway so take your time. 
- There are lots of Brits out there who could advise you. Probably one in every town. They will be able to advise. 
- Personally, I would travel around and not go to the most obvious place to buy a property. Hope this helps.


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## sheilamarsco

interesting to read these posts but on the whole i disagree with the advice given. not all of abruzzo is in the earthquake zone and not all agents/geometras are crooked. like all other countries it has its' share of dodgy businesses but on the whole i have found the agencies and builders to be honest hardworking and truthful. i found the legal system excellent everything was explained and i could have the option of having an english translator present during the signing of any legal documents if i wanted(i didn't as i speak enough italian to be able to understand what was being said.)i live in the north part of abruzzo where there is little danger of earthquake damage. i wouldn't buy a ruin in the uk as i realise how much it costs eventually to renovate likewise i didn't buy a ruin in abruzzo but there are bargains to be had just takes a little time and patience to find them. good luck p.s. if you would like some constructive advice/information just pm me.


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## GuidoandGillian

sheilamarsco said:


> interesting to read these posts but on the whole i disagree with the advice given. not all of abruzzo is in the earthquake zone and not all agents/geometras are crooked. like all other countries it has its' share of dodgy businesses but on the whole i have found the agencies and builders to be honest hardworking and truthful. i found the legal system excellent everything was explained and i could have the option of having an english translator present during the signing of any legal documents if i wanted(i didn't as i speak enough italian to be able to understand what was being said.)i live in the north part of abruzzo where there is little danger of earthquake damage. i wouldn't buy a ruin in the uk as i realise how much it costs eventually to renovate likewise i didn't buy a ruin in abruzzo but there are bargains to be had just takes a little time and patience to find them. good luck p.s. if you would like some constructive advice/information just pm me.


To anyone genuine out there who is looking to buy a house in Ab bear this in mind. House estate agents use this site as well to generate interest in buying houses. Not all the information you read hear is worth listening to. 

Yes the legal system works damm swiftly when you are buying. We have a house in a town where there are now many people trying to use that same legal system to a) get compensation for damage on their house b) to make claims because they were missold property which should never have been sold in the first place because it was unsafe etc etc. Not so swift now is it? No quite so efficient and not quite so excellent. 

Bear in mind that a house that looks perfectly solid, respectable and as if it could stand for the next century could quite easily have many many things wrong with it. And if next door, or above you or god forbid beneath you is damaged then your perfectly solid house will probably be stuffed anyway. 

Before you buy you will firstly need a competent and non biased geometra, [tricky if you cant speak Italian] then i would suggest going to the town commune and asking for their professional architect to take a look at it [again good luck]

By the way in our town the Commune Professional Architect told us that in Umbria the Councils are now banning the sale of older properties to foreigners because they want to stop "third parties" [imagine who] raking in profits from them. This is likely to happen elsewhere soon. 

This is a very important rule to bear in mind. Since the earthquake, before any work can be done on a house it now has to be signed off by a geometra as "earthquake safe" - I can't remember the technical terms. For a house to be technically safe in this post earthquake age it needs to have a whole host of structural safeguards in place. This will cost a great deal of money. If in doubt read a thread from Pam in the old thread "moving to ofena". Infact read the whole thread you will get a taste of what has gone before by people who have actually been there and know what they are talking about. 

Oh - and by the way. Getting to know the expats is one of the great joys of having a house in Italy. Particuarly, I would have thought if you cant speak Italian (which we can)....


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## sheilamarsco

just for the record i am a retired nurse and have nothing to do with estate agents in italy so i have no interest in promoting their business. i am expressing my own experience and have no complaints with the services i received.



GuidoandGillian said:


> To anyone genuine out there who is looking to buy a house in Ab bear this in mind. House estate agents use this site as well to generate interest in buying houses. Not all the information you read hear is worth listening to.
> 
> Yes the legal system works damm swiftly when you are buying. We have a house in a town where there are now many people trying to use that same legal system to a) get compensation for damage on their house b) to make claims because they were missold property which should never have been sold in the first place because it was unsafe etc etc. Not so swift now is it? No quite so efficient and not quite so excellent.
> 
> Bear in mind that a house that looks perfectly solid, respectable and as if it could stand for the next century could quite easily have many many things wrong with it. And if next door, or above you or god forbid beneath you is damaged then your perfectly solid house will probably be stuffed anyway.
> 
> Before you buy you will firstly need a competent and non biased geometra, [tricky if you cant speak Italian] then i would suggest going to the town commune and asking for their professional architect to take a look at it [again good luck]
> 
> By the way in our town the Commune Professional Architect told us that in Umbria the Councils are now banning the sale of older properties to foreigners because they want to stop "third parties" [imagine who] raking in profits from them. This is likely to happen elsewhere soon.
> 
> This is a very important rule to bear in mind. Since the earthquake, before any work can be done on a house it now has to be signed off by a geometra as "earthquake safe" - I can't remember the technical terms. For a house to be technically safe in this post earthquake age it needs to have a whole host of structural safeguards in place. This will cost a great deal of money. If in doubt read a thread from Pam in the old thread "moving to ofena". Infact read the whole thread you will get a taste of what has gone before by people who have actually been there and know what they are talking about.
> 
> Oh - and by the way. Getting to know the expats is one of the great joys of having a house in Italy. Particuarly, I would have thought if you cant speak Italian (which we can)....


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## pudd 2

i agree whith sheala ande i think the best way to find a house is t5o stay in area for a few days to get the feal for that area , not be taken to lots of areas not to even know were you have been at the end of the day


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## italy

just to preface my points on here with a disclaimer.. i am attached to an estate agency here.. well i do the web based work.. but this site does not allow signatures and self publication so i add neither and do neither although i recognize easily the ones that do

i find quite astonishing this blanket labeling of Abruzzo as an earthquake zone and have written very clearly in loads of places, other Italian forums, my face book pages and even our website re the problems and hazards of buying in certain areas of Abruzzo and exactly why it costs so little....

for the facts.. go to the civil protection website and they have a full list of all comunes in Italy and their risk status 

i have worked here in Abruzzo for almost ten years now and have received in various forms emails, phone calls and threats of several types due to the fact that i have spoken out on many subjects relating to unscrupulous sales practices by many agencies here.. and to be honest most of them with heavy ex-pat involvement... which strikes me as even worse when you do it to your own..

most of the upset and angry advice given re buildings in Abruzzo is totally wrong.. and applies mainly to the L'Aquila crater where the earthquake occurred.. the compensation zone.. other areas which suffered light damage applied to get help and many people with old houses in these areas seeing a chance of getting their houses done up for free put in applications.. not for-seeing that by exaggerating the damage they would have their house declared non - livable and so now they have to have major intervention with compensation help to gain a certifcate which allows them to be declared habitable...

outside of these main damage areas there has been no real problems.. i lived here throughout the earthquake and if as suggested the whole of Abruzzo is so at risk it surprises me somewhat to say that we still have tens of thousands of people from L'Aquila living here in the province of Teramo as a place of refuge.. and in the immediate aftermath of the quake Teramo the city and the province was used to house and hospitalize the main bulk of the survivors at one stage almost 50,00 people being helped here... i doubt any rescue and refugee program would have allowed them to be moved here if the area was considered as unsafe.

you may look at things in any way you want re hazards and life.. L'Aquila has a history of severe quakes but all along the Apennines to the western side there is a major fault line and who buys there in Italy is assured there will be problems.. there are several hundred earth tremors recorded in Italy every day.

If you can be bothered to check Abruzzo is actually not the area with the major amounts of deaths in recent history, sicily and campania far more, 

A final word for now.. i guess.. There are 4 levels of risk 1 the highest to 4 the lowest.. you will be hard put to find an area without it being included in this list.. i was surprised to read about one poor person that lost a house in L'Aquila and has since bought a house in the province of Chieti.. being sold the house by an English run agency.. registered or not i dont know.. thinking he had left earthquakes behind.. he has bought into another seismic one area.. most probably told the lie by the agency that there was no risk.. what should i do ..send him a pm and tell him and get him all worried.. or just let it be.. he writes their praises everywhere how sweet and kind they were.. 

so i let him be.. i have enough troubles already with the ex-pat community here in Abruzzo.. the only definite non seismic one area in abruzzo is Teramo.. Chieti has loads.. and so does Pescara .. but check yourselves.. i did before buying ... and that was ten years ago...

another fact.. i have written about it a lot on facebook is there is reems of research and study about earthquakes in Italy mainly in Italian .. they are very good at predicting qukes with a timescale.. ie a quake will occur along this fault line in the next 10 years.. or if they said 50 years 49 years ago then in 1 year...

they measure pressure build and land movement and use historic records and they say that within 3 years of an Aquila quake there is always another in the triangle between aquila, rieti and sulmona.. less force most probably .. and not near the last one.. the energy has been released there.. so theres a cheery fault..


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## italy

*sorry but this thread really drives me mad*

I know there is no real malice in this seemingly anti buying here postings but what makes me feel quite cross about many of the views is the fact that most of them are wrong but.. but are actually true based on experience..

if that makes sense.. most people that buy here away from the sort of bolder sharks preying on less than aware people looking to purchase here do so with little to no major problems and are happy.. 

the problem if i can be Abruzzo specific seems to me to be the fact that Pescara airport opened and ryan air started flying.. so called ad related popular journalism then started publishing cheap property and a wonderful life style.. and at that time there was little choice of who to deal with if you did not speak Italian.. indeed records show that in fact they were not even licensed to operate as such and neither were they allowed to charge sales commission under the law here.. but they got away with it for a while.. and newspapers and TV kept talking them and the place up.. in fact aiding and abetting a pretty obvious scam operation.. ie a company non registered taking monies in cash without paying any tax.. etc etc ..with lots of backhanders to local comune officials to keep it all quite..

this was the model of Abruzzo house sales which then spawned a horrendous amount of copycat pretenders, many of them expat run or geometras using ex pats to sell onto foreign nationals.. mainly illegally with no records of their registration in the chamber of commerce and no P.IVA in site (VAT number) compulsory here 

to me this is the background as to why Abruzzo has suffered more than most areas in regards to problematic sales ... because very less than knowledgeable and less than well meaning ex pats collaborating with dishonest locals out to make quick bucks... pretty ell took over the sales to all non Italians here in Abruzzo .. thanks mainly to forums and newspapers promoting people that had and still do not have any right to sell or mediate in property purchases here in Italy

very strict laws govern everything to do with sales and mediation .. so this talk of a rushed process leaves me stunned.. in fact in normal terms here a completed sale can take up to a year to conclude..its not rare.. contracts can be signed with offers conditional on terms being met..ie that you get a mortgage ..that the building passes a test.. that you sell your UK property before moving on.. 

title research before going to the notary.. if buying land and a property contacting neighboring farmers.. and getting them to give up their rights on the land you wish to buy all takes time and research.. even arranging the date of the final act often means co -ordinating appointments with notaries.. always busy, the sellers and all their relatives... translators, legal reps if used.. and the purchaser.. agreed dates often months away.. thats my working knowledge of a system which to secure non Italian consumer protection makes it against the law here for a non Italian speaker to be bound by any contract that is not in their language if they cannot be shown to fully comprehend italian.. that these contracts need to be registered and held as copies by the local chamber of commerce so that if they are presented differently to those registered they are not legal..

thats all tech stuff.. worse still is the fact that as prices rose around pescara people were persuaded into the sulmona aquila area to buy.. still going on.. with no knowledge of risk that buying here holds.. in fact denial and i know this is true by agencies for sure in sulmona that this is in fact a very active earthquake zone and that buildings there are at risk unless lots of money is spent... and if the building is at risk so are you.. or the continual sales of property close to the Bussi toxic waste area without fully informing people of the risks of the water from that area...

why is the province of l'Aquila the only area of Abruzzo with a major decline in population.. because they cannot cope with the expense of the buildings, do not want to continue accepting the risks.. if they do not.. cannot cope with the extremes of weather there.. cauldron hot or freezing cold.. so the decline continues even in modern times..beyond the historic mass emigration of post war italy..... without anyone else in Italy moving into replace them.. thats the thing.. foreign buyers make up a very small percentage of house sales here.. English account within that percentage as less than a quarter percent.. 

other fallacies i can confirm as not true is the comment about restrictions on private property sales to foreigners.. someone is pulling someones leg.. there cannot be under Italian law or even european that sort of restrictive policy... and its not true for Umbria or for Abruzzo.. there might well be cases where very historical buildings are kept within the state..but no general law of that sort is ever going to happen


----------



## Renee Artois

Abruzzo is a great place to holiday, but if you are going to live here you need to be aware the season is very short maybe only July & August. The rest of the year is very quiet.


----------



## italy

Renee

i live near the city of Teramo and people live and do things here all year round.. i should think Pescara also is a lively city all year round

we have festivals all year a theatre, two cinemas a football team, not that good i will admit, but our basket ball team are in the top league and usually come near the top of that..

concerts on at the new stadium, restauarants and agriturismo open all year.. its strange i have never thought of Abruzzo as a seasonal region.. so am not actually sure what you mean... although if you are talking about some of the coastal towns i will agree although both giulianova and rosetto are pretty well established as non seasonal towns as they are both large


----------



## Renee Artois

italy said:


> Renee
> 
> i live near the city of Teramo and people live and do things here all year round.. i should think Pescara also is a lively city all year round
> 
> we have festivals all year a theatre, two cinemas a football team, not that good i will admit, but our basket ball team are in the top league and usually come near the top of that..
> 
> concerts on at the new stadium, restauarants and agriturismo open all year.. its strange i have never thought of Abruzzo as a seasonal region.. so am not actually sure what you mean... although if you are talking about some of the coastal towns i will agree although both giulianova and rosetto are pretty well established as non seasonal towns as they are both large


We do live on coast although we are moving to France end of August.

Although you may make valid points we found winters long here, and unless your Italian is very good theatres and cinemas have little appeal. As they say you can only speak as you find.


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## sheilamarsco

again i have to disagree with the point that abruzzo is seasonal i guess it depends on whether you mean a self catering or b & b would only have two months of the year of business. i run a self catering apartment and for me the season runs from april to october. that is only by choice as i don't take bookings in the winter although i know a lot of people who have guests all the year round. as for things to do there is always plenty in pescara or chieti or as the other respondant has said in teramo.


----------



## italy

Renee ..good luck with your move to France.. presume you have french.. having lived in a few areas there .. montpelier,antibes and geuret am not sure the weather will be better.. i remember freezing winters .. in fact i doubt you will find many olive trees producing there because its too cold.. and not enough sun.. living on the coast is very seasonal in some areas.. but maybe if you had chosen Pescara which is the largest city in abruzzo on the coast.. too maybe you would have found it a livelier more cosmopolitan life here...


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## galileo

*be excited but beware*

We did so also last year and we were equallly exceited. We thought we were fairly knowledable (we built our house here in UK), we'd followed expat forums and we had some contacts in abruzzo but we have and are still experiencing, real difficulties so from my experiences some possible tips:
- take care and a bit of time to get references of companies from users on this and other forums. We used Ancient Properties but a falling out between two of their staff has resulted in real difficulties for us (and some more pain to come, I'm sure).
- get to know local expats and Italians and seek their information and advice
- ensure you undertake due diligence when assessing the properties eg use your own eyes eg looking for cracks etc, get survey or engineer to advise. 
- factor in (probably) very high costs for work, labour and materials eg windows, roof, heating systems... Get specifications of the work to be done and stick to agreed quotes.
- get good, trustworthy geometra, builder and project manager (if needed). You really do need to have faith in the people working with you on your project. 
I hope that these comments will be helpful and best wishes with your project.


----------



## oldjerry

I'm not sure as a newcomer to this forum that I should be commenting on this area(Abbruzzo) that I know little about(though Chieti is a hell of a nice place) but I maybe I could offer a few objective comments.

1.Why do some people expect to move to another country and expect everything to operate in exactly in the same way it does in their native country?
I don't see that attitude in the hundreds of thousands of east Europeans in the UK who have learnt adapted and thrived. 

2.Why would you migrate to a country and not bother to learn the language ? I've experience teaching TEFAL in the UK. Migrants to the UK jump through hoops to learn English,a far more difficult language to master thanItalian.

3.Do they think that someone moving into a rural area in the UK from 'up country' with loads of cash,chasing some buccolic dream isnt at risk from the odd unscrupulous local,I,ve lived in Cornwall,trust me they are.
Lets be honest,people are people,be careful,lighten up.If everything compares so badly to the UK why move?


----------



## italy

old jerry..well put... i think most complaints that originate here are aimed at the sort of professional rip offs.. people that know what they are doing to whom .. and what the result will be.. less organised and less planned accidents of life i think we will all let go by to a degree and just put it down to experience

experience learned in Abruzzo though is often tainted by the initial phase of house buying and the lack of openness /honesty in that area which then prejudices all our views for the future... spoiling often what was to be our dream relocation and new life far earlier on than expected...

my thoughts are we can all learn from mistakes but fraudulent and dishonest behavior by certain people that have moved here and then take advantage of others trying to do the same is an unjustifiable in any degree and just leads to a bad name for this region ..


----------



## Renee Artois

oldjerry said:


> I'm not sure as a newcomer to this forum that I should be commenting on this area(Abbruzzo) that I know little about(though Chieti is a hell of a nice place) but I maybe I could offer a few objective comments.
> 
> 1.Why do some people expect to move to another country and expect everything to operate in exactly in the same way it does in their native country?
> I don't see that attitude in the hundreds of thousands of east Europeans in the UK who have learnt adapted and thrived.
> 
> 2.Why would you migrate to a country and not bother to learn the language ? I've experience teaching TEFAL in the UK. Migrants to the UK jump through hoops to learn English,a far more difficult language to master thanItalian.
> 
> 3.Do they think that someone moving into a rural area in the UK from 'up country' with loads of cash,chasing some buccolic dream isnt at risk from the odd unscrupulous local,I,ve lived in Cornwall,trust me they are.
> Lets be honest,people are people,be careful,lighten up.If everything compares so badly to the UK why move?


People who move for economic reasons have different motivations to those of us who move abroad after working all their lives and are now able to self support themselves wherever they choose to live.

As a teacher I would expect you to understand that a 25 year old graduate from Sofia will find it easier to adapt and learn a language than someone who is in their late 50's or early 60's who moves to Abruzzo or elsewhere on retiring. Economic need is a great motivator.

Most people who move abroad (myself included) try very hard to learn the language, so I think your comments are unfair. I have lived in three European countries and have studied the language in all of them.

This thread was discussion about moving to Abruzzo, and if you are financially secure and self supporting you should be able to consider all points relating to an area when you make your decision where to relocate - after all, it is a choice you are free to make - provided you have all the information!!!!


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## sheilamarsco

perhaps it depends on how keen you are to integrate into the particular country you move to. i speak italian but really don't ever expect to integrate into italian culture despite having been married to an italian a long time ago for over 20 years. it's a different culture you're never going to be part of it but that doesn't stop you enjoying the wonderful country/sunshine/food etc., i don't agree that it depends on your age if you're keen to learn you can do this whether you are 20 or 70. what does seem to make a difference is that couples rely on one of them to communicate the other usually the woman takes a back seat and never learns the language or to be independant.......hang on perhaps this applies whether it's england/scotland/italy/france!!!!!


----------



## oldjerry

italy said:


> old jerry..well put... i think most complaints that originate here are aimed at the sort of professional rip offs.. people that know what they are doing to whom .. and what the result will be.. less organised and less planned accidents of life i think we will all let go by to a degree and just put it down to experience
> 
> experience learned in Abruzzo though is often tainted by the initial phase of house buying and the lack of openness /honesty in that area which then prejudices all our views for the future... spoiling often what was to be our dream relocation and new life far earlier on than expected...
> 
> my thoughts are we can all learn from mistakes but fraudulent and dishonest behavior by certain people that have moved here and then take advantage of others trying to do the same is an unjustifiable in any degree and just leads to a bad name for this region ..


I reckon thats a very balanced response to some views that came from the heart rather than the head.An inate distrust of estate agents and their ilk,of any country, creed,nationality,gender age etc. has got to be sensible. 
I really do think however that if you choose to live somewhere you are morally duty bound to learn the language,(asylum seekers in the UK are legally required to whatever their age).Anyhow you cant possibly appreciate the true culture of a country without the language.
And its easy,I've taught TEFL but I'm no great linguist(pig farmer by trade!)but 30 mins a day on a language course eg.BBC online and in acouple of months you'll have enough to converse and then you improve exponentially,and Italian is easy,try learning Welsh!


----------



## Smalins

Hello, I have a home in Abruzzo and found the whole process extremely straight forward, I read all sorts of horror stories but think we were lucky and bought our house from a lovely family. I would be happy to talk to you about out experience, either by direct general questions on this forum or if you have worked out yet how we could correspond more privately can give you more specific info!


----------



## galileo

*thanks and would welcome help*

Might be easier to communicate using pms which I'll now be able to do - I think. I'll try pm-ing you now. Thanks.


----------



## galileo

*5 posts*

I note that you don't yet have 5 posts so would you reply to my message and we'll progress things from there.
J


----------



## galileo

*happy to share experiences*



Philipsal said:


> Hello Andrea, I am also thinking of moving to Abruzzo. I am leaving this Sat. May 1 to May 12. I am meeting with 2 different agencies while I am there. Lets stay in touch and I will share my experience with you. I also welcome any advice from folks that can help.


We bought our old house last year and have done a roof and stonework. We've also had interesting experiences with builders and agencies etc. Happy to share if you wish to pm me.


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## Loughton Lass

Hi,
I came upon this forum after a search on buying property in Italy. We too are thinking of moving to Abruzzo and are visiting next week (hubbie works in a school, so we can only do school holidays).

We're not sure whether to go for a holiday home, perhaps something to renovate, but structurally sound. Our other option is to wait a few years and move permanantly, buying something bigger and needing no work. Really not sure.

Are there any sites you can point me to where I can find out more on the perils and pitfalls? We used to live in Rome, many years ago now, so I am very wary. I am also wary of using an agency, but am guessing this is a bit unfounded as things must have moved on and Abruzzo isn't Rome. Advice appreciated!

We are also thinking of training in TEFL. Does anyone know if this is worth doing? I wouldn't expect this to pay the bills, just to keep us busy and bring in a few extra Euro's.

Sorry there's so many questions, but it's all been buzzing around looking for an outlet! Thanks


----------



## Bonnie1

*Re Agencies*



Philipsal said:


> Hello Andrea, I am also thinking of moving to Abruzzo. I am leaving this Sat. May 1 to May 12. I am meeting with 2 different agencies while I am there. Lets stay in touch and I will share my experience with you. I also welcome any advice from folks that can help.


Hi there can you share your experience with me as well, as I will be in Italy in September, looking for a place to buy, and would live to hear about your experiences with the agencies. Thanks Bonnie1.


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## oldjerry

Loughton Lass said:


> Hi,
> I came upon this forum after a search on buying property in Italy. We too are thinking of moving to Abruzzo and are visiting next week (hubbie works in a school, so we can only do school holidays).
> 
> We're not sure whether to go for a holiday home, perhaps something to renovate, but structurally sound. Our other option is to wait a few years and move permanantly, buying something bigger and needing no work. Really not sure.
> 
> Are there any sites you can point me to where I can find out more on the perils and pitfalls? We used to live in Rome, many years ago now, so I am very wary. I am also wary of using an agency, but am guessing this is a bit unfounded as things must have moved on and Abruzzo isn't Rome. Advice appreciated!
> 
> We are also thinking of training in TEFL. Does anyone know if this is worth doing? I wouldn't expect this to pay the bills, just to keep us busy and bring in a few extra Euro's.
> 
> Sorry there's so many questions, but it's all been buzzing around looking for an outlet! Thanks


Hi,TEFL is worth doing,but as you may know already, the courses vary,and some are of little value.Go for a CELTA course,it takes months rather than days but it is highly regarded and well worth the outlay in time and money. Best wishes.


----------



## Hoss

*Visit to Abruzzo*

My wife and I are planning a trip to Abruzzo to visit and look at property in Dec/Jan - Can you share your experience?

Many thanks ... Randy


----------



## Hoss

*Visit to Abruzzo - More Detail*

My wife and I are planning a trip to Abruzzo to visit and look at property in Dec/Jan. We are searching the web for homes to get an idea of what's out there now. So far, VERY impressed! I would appreciate any insight around the relo experience to Abruzzo from the US. As mentioned, we are planning a trip in late December to look around. My wife is a teacher in the states so we are restricted to travel time slots (Christmas and Summer). 

Many thanks ... Randy


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## Hoss

Thank you - I will take a look.

Regards


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## josephdemeyer

*buy in abruzzo*



AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


We are just about to finalize the deed for a house in Ofena, Abruzzo, beginning September...so we have all the contacts...but also the frustrations !
Will be happy to stay in touch. Joseph and Vee DeMeyer


----------



## Hoss

*Frustrations*



josephdemeyer said:


> We are just about to finalize the deed for a house in Ofena, Abruzzo, beginning September...so we have all the contacts...but also the frustrations !
> Will be happy to stay in touch. Joseph and Vee DeMeyer


As my wife and I just starting the process of looking; Can you share some of your frustrations? Too, how long has it taken you to get to the point of closure on yoru deal?

Thanks! Randy


----------



## Barry

josephdemeyer said:


> We are just about to finalize the deed for a house in Ofena, Abruzzo, beginning September...so we have all the contacts...but also the frustrations !
> Will be happy to stay in touch. Joseph and Vee DeMeyer


Hi Joseph and Vee,
We have a house in Carrufo, right above Ofena. Lots of english in Ofena. Where are you buying? 

Barry


----------



## Barry

Hoss said:


> As my wife and I just starting the process of looking; Can you share some of your frustrations? Too, how long has it taken you to get to the point of closure on yoru deal?
> 
> Thanks! Randy


8 months for us from offer to getting the keys.


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## josephdemeyer

*ofena*



Barry said:


> Hi Joseph and Vee,
> We have a house in Carrufo, right above Ofena. Lots of english in Ofena. Where are you buying?
> 
> Barry


I know, Barry..I think Vee even met you already...In any case..let's first get those keys in our hands!


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## miolas

*welcome to abruzzo!*

When visiting Abruzzo,also pay a visit to two villages called Capestrano and Ofena,they are both very nice! And for the agency, have a look at Abruzzo house, a very good & reliable local agency. Welcome to beautful Abruzzo!


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## miolas

pls ignore my previous comment,i see your deal is already done! All the better,and ofena is an excellent choice of village. My sister has a place there,lovely village. drop me a message if u wish to get some local ofena tips ! Welcome and all the best with the house project!


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## josephdemeyer

*ofena*



miolas said:


> pls ignore my previous comment,i see your deal is already done! All the better,and ofena is an excellent choice of village. My sister has a place there,lovely village. drop me a message if u wish to get some local ofena tips ! Welcome and all the best with the house project!


Thanks...well the deal is not yet completely done: need to get Stampe at the Catasto for the new Scheda. It came as a surprise that a law came in effect June to renew them (well, the old one was from 1940..) So luckily we have our good girl Friday (your sister likely knows her: "C") to chase after this. We also have a good man Friday: the local agent. Otherwise we think it would have been a whole lot harder: the Pescara agency has a couple of "weak" links..And Barclays (well...that's the North..) was xtremely helpful !
So let's see when the notario is back from vacation.
Looking forward to meeting you and your sister -and anybody else in Ofena and in the also lovely other hamlets- it's truly an amazing region (lets keep it a little exclusive; if you know what we mean!)


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## Philipsal

Hello,

I am also looking to buy in Abruzzo and was there 4 months ago looking at homes. I do have some good advice about choosing an agent, opening an account, hiring a geometra and etc. Feel free to contact me on my email and I can give you some details. [email protected] Thanks, Philip


----------



## valerie1

*looking to buy in abruzzo*



AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


Hi Andrea

From experience it is best to avoid House around Italy they charge too much for things that others do for free. Contact Ancient Properties in Vasto. Paola is very good and gives an excellent service at a fraction of the cost. We have bought a property thru her company and she is helping us with quotes etc for renovations.

Abruzzo is fantastic and we can't wait to move out there!
Good luck
Valerie


----------



## pugwashington

AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


I bought my house through houses around Italy and while I am happy with the house some of their services left a lot to be desired. I used their surveyor thinking that a big company would be mindfull of their reputation. Alas I was wrong - I thought I would be able to get compensation from his insurance company for the obviously bad survey - I seem to be wrong on this front too. I am not alone in having a bad survey - yet they continue to recommend him. I was not told by their financial advisor that if you transfer the money to Italy to purchase your house in seperate amounts you dont have to pay bank charges (cost 300eu). I turned up to sign for the house to find that I was paying a certain percent in cash - no consultation with me. same with their notary. The translation service was a rip off. But I think a legal requirement. Other people have been ripped off by their representatives and building work undertaken a scandal. 

It seems to be common practice to take a house worth 12,000 eu - up the price to 20-30,00 eu - if you buy something for low price you expect problems. Since living in village I now realise property values in Abruzzo are somewhat creative. Also the problem with houses around italy is that although they may be an estate agency and governed by certain laws - the people who find houses for them have no training at all and no proffesional code of conduct. My house was not in fact sale safe - a legal requirement - however it was still sold to me and the surveyor did not mention it. 

I might have singled out HAI but I do not think other agencies are that much different. So do your homework - get an independant survey - there is an engineer who you can find on the internet who speaks english - but anyway you can find people who do speak English. No matter what they say to the contary unless it has a new roof it will need a new roof and when you have it done get an anti quake ring put in (cost 120-230 per sq metre). They will also say - what a strong house - look its withstood quake. Lot of tosh - just lucky be prepared to have pins put in. Floors may also need to be taken up and have mesh put down and tethered to the walls. also have a good look at houses around it - your house might be safe but other could be dangerous and be compromising yours.

other than all that its simple.....dont let me put you off - just open your eyes.


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## Barry

As Pam says renovations are expensive. Frequently more than a new build and there are usually restrictions on what type of renovations are allowed. Carefully consider what you are purchasing for and how much extra you want to spend repairing an old house.


----------



## Occhio

*Trials and tribulations*

Hi all,

I have just registered to this site having read with interest this thread. We fell in love with the Abruzzo region early this year having made the decision to buy and move there. We were quite specific with our property requirement, have a large extended family, 6 grown up children, grandchildren etc etc. We originally found a property whick looked wonderful on the agents website, but it didn't really portray the state of it, pre-earthquake picture posted  but not to problematical. It was after that the issues started. 

As I have said, we were quite clear with our requirements and when the agent glibly said that any changes we wanted to be made to the property could be done including a pool our inexperienced heads were overruled by our hearts and we made an offer. After some normal estate agent negotiating, the "I know they wont accept that etc etc" a price was finally agreed. More fun then greeted us 1000Euros to the agent to take the property off the market, 770Euros for an independant valuation (which to date we still haven't got) and everything has to paid up front because that's the "Italian Way". 

It was then by chance we found a shining light in Andrew Dill of Craftsmen of Abruzzo and what a fountain of knowledge he was and has become. After some lengthy discussions with Andrew we were able to go back to the agent, pose some very awkward questions, which they were unable to answer and subsequently we pulled out with a 2000Euro hole in our pocket. Beware RED Zone property because you cannot do anything to them legally!!!

With all of our new found knowledge we have now found our Italian home and are in the process of finalising it all.

From our experience if you are really considering buying a property in this wonderful part of Italy you must do the following:

1. Keep control of the entire process, do not pay anything in advance unless advised to do so by a lawyer. Estate Agents dont appear to like it when they are not in control !!!!!
2. Use the agent to provide you with your Codice Fiscale and bank account. This can also be arranged by a lawyer and do not cost anything.
3. Find your own geometra, architect and builder, try where posible to stay away from the agents own as they are only really interested in selling to property. Most agents make more money from their own renovation partners than they do from the sale.
4. Expect to pay around 3% to the agent as a buyers premium, they will also be getting the same from the vendor, but it never hurts to negotiate.
5. Get a good English speaking lawyer.
6. Be prepared to have other offers made on your property, true or fictional, but stand your ground and they like the mists that roll over the mountains soon disappear.
7. Check that the land the property comes with is actually what was originally given to the agent and you do not end up buying extra land that was already part of the lot.

If anyone out there has found this of interest, or has some issues with it please feel free to bite back through this forum or contact me to discuss or get access to our contact list.

Occhio


----------



## jonoandfern

*Coming over to explore*



Smalins said:


> Hello, I have a home in Abruzzo and found the whole process extremely straight forward, I read all sorts of horror stories but think we were lucky and bought our house from a lovely family. I would be happy to talk to you about out experience, either by direct general questions on this forum or if you have worked out yet how we could correspond more privately can give you more specific info!


Hi there, 

We are coming over next month to explore for a good few days. It would be great to have a breakdown of the 4 different areas, and the pros and cons. Or even meet for a coffee.
Please contact me via [email protected]


----------



## jonoandfern

*Coming over to explore*



Smalins said:


> Hello, I have a home in Abruzzo and found the whole process extremely straight forward, I read all sorts of horror stories but think we were lucky and bought our house from a lovely family. I would be happy to talk to you about out experience, either by direct general questions on this forum or if you have worked out yet how we could correspond more privately can give you more specific info!


Hi there, 

We are coming over next month to explore for a good few days. It would be great to have a breakdown of the 4 different areas, and the pros and cons. Or even meet for a coffee.
Please contact me via [email protected]


----------



## italy

*useful*



Occhio said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have just registered to this site having read with interest this thread. We fell in love with the Abruzzo region early this year having made the decision to buy and move there. We were quite specific with our property requirement, have a large extended family, 6 grown up children, grandchildren etc etc. We originally found a property whick looked wonderful on the agents website, but it didn't really portray the state of it, pre-earthquake picture posted  but not to problematical. It was after that the issues started.
> 
> As I have said, we were quite clear with our requirements and when the agent glibly said that any changes we wanted to be made to the property could be done including a pool our inexperienced heads were overruled by our hearts and we made an offer. After some normal estate agent negotiating, the "I know they wont accept that etc etc" a price was finally agreed. More fun then greeted us 1000Euros to the agent to take the property off the market, 770Euros for an independant valuation (which to date we still haven't got) and everything has to paid up front because that's the "Italian Way".
> 
> It was then by chance we found a shining light in Andrew Dill of Craftsmen of Abruzzo and what a fountain of knowledge he was and has become. After some lengthy discussions with Andrew we were able to go back to the agent, pose some very awkward questions, which they were unable to answer and subsequently we pulled out with a 2000Euro hole in our pocket. Beware RED Zone property because you cannot do anything to them legally!!!
> 
> With all of our new found knowledge we have now found our Italian home and are in the process of finalising it all.
> 
> From our experience if you are really considering buying a property in this wonderful part of Italy you must do the following:
> 
> 1. Keep control of the entire process, do not pay anything in advance unless advised to do so by a lawyer. Estate Agents dont appear to like it when they are not in control !!!!!
> 2. Use the agent to provide you with your Codice Fiscale and bank account. This can also be arranged by a lawyer and do not cost anything.
> 3. Find your own geometra, architect and builder, try where posible to stay away from the agents own as they are only really interested in selling to property. Most agents make more money from their own renovation partners than they do from the sale.
> 4. Expect to pay around 3% to the agent as a buyers premium, they will also be getting the same from the vendor, but it never hurts to negotiate.
> 5. Get a good English speaking lawyer.
> 6. Be prepared to have other offers made on your property, true or fictional, but stand your ground and they like the mists that roll over the mountains soon disappear.
> 7. Check that the land the property comes with is actually what was originally given to the agent and you do not end up buying extra land that was already part of the lot.
> 
> If anyone out there has found this of interest, or has some issues with it please feel free to bite back through this forum or contact me to discuss or get access to our contact list.
> 
> Occhio


an expensive lesson that provides useful info for those starting out on the road of buying here in Italy

no real criticisms although i find that most recommendations offered here on this forum are by the people themselves in guises that are not apparent although am not aiming that remark at you as your info seems quite widespread and useful..

re code fiscale it is so simple to get at home whilst waiting for other legalities to go through or even before making your trip, just ask for a postal application from the Italian embassy or consular service near to you, costs nothing and apart from August is usually done in a couple of weeks

you will find that most agents do not have their own building companies, but that most agents that sell to foreign buyers alone do and as you say be very cautious about either buying via them or using associated services

the holding back of land is very common practice amongst those types of agencies as they then offer the land for sale or try to develop it via their own projects to sell on again, so spot on once again

red zoned and seismic 1 areas are as you say to be avoided and its not just the fact that you might not be allowed to build its also the fact that should you gain renovation permissions that build costs which are already high here will be sometimes doubled or more.. when for instance to make a property safe they have to sink so much concrete and steel into the ground that you will pay as much for below ground work as that above

seismic areas are listed on the civile protection site so are easily found for the whole of Italy not just Abruzzo and i would say it is essential to avoid class 1 zones for not only your own piece of mind but for costs

more common and easier to hide are areas that are zoned red as regards the stability of the land, clues to this are simple, very undulating road ways or land slips where half the road is missing.. steep steps in fields where the field has slipped down hill .. are good clues.. the comune technical office will have all of its territory mapped and zoned

other things to be aware of and be cautious of are agencies without their P.IVA on their website.. that is illegal.. all registered agencies, in fact any business has to have that number displayed, unless its a bed and breakfast and in that case it has to display its codice fiscale.. so a good initial clue is that even before you start to look

the second number that has to be displayed for an estate agent here is their inscription number in the chamber of commerce where their business is based and indeed you can go on the website for the chamber of commerce in Italy and check if anyone with the name you are dealing with is registered to act in any capacity be it building or selling here in Italy.. anyway the number has to be displayed by law as does their business address and i would not work with anyone that does not have premises here that are registered.

however all that does not secure your safety one otr two agencies have grown so big that they have assumed guises of legality whilst still operating on the side of the law by allowing not registered people to show houses and negotiate deals

unless you actually are talking to the person registered and qualified to sell property when you ask questions regarding the property they have no legal obligation to tell the truth and obviously you have no recourse should they lie

so a scout is fine for initial discussions and or viewings but real negotiations and questions need to be asked from the qualified agent 

dont be fooled by private sellers or chats with people in the bars or even helpful friendly natives, experience suggests that often these people do this as part time work especially in those areas that have large amounts of expats, to be honest many properties that are sold in this way have been turned down by reputable agents as carrying too many problems and many might believe they have bought property simply and without problems but unless you are an Italian legal expert i would doubt you could actually secure yourself in this respect, problems might well take years to arrive through the letter box up to and including problems with unpaid bills and debts that attach to a property rather than a person or people quite happily declaring to be sole owners when minuscule arts of a property are often held by obscure relatives often who have emigrated and one day find a bit of paper or a relative dies that gives them rights that were never fully explored 

that is essentially why agents that are registered are allowed to charge such seemingly high fees because by law they have to investigate fully property before offering it for sale via their agency as should an Italian buy a property via them with a load of hidden faults they will get into trouble, get fined and or loose lots of reputation

seems strange to me that many people do not go with the main agencies here .. for example tecnocasa is present throughout Italy and maybe does not hold as many properties that are rural as one might like but i would suggest they may well have a few and that if you view a few houses with them you will get an excellent idea of property prices and agency practices as served up by Italians to Italians, am not recommending them to buy through but as a good way of learning at least or any similar national Italian centered agency that operates within the law here, you might well be surprised, they often charge 4% and have minimum charges too but you have to ask yourselves why would Italians pay that extra, the other point is that sellers pay the higher fee too but what you might well find is that house prices are lower because they are so big and have a reputation for selling property quickly they will always or almost always drive selling prices down in order to sell quicker

i do get surprised about how easily people seem to get taken in and ignore all common sense but its useless to argue that point as it happens so often it just has to be accepted as the way

these forums to my mind offer much wise practical advice but also many honey traps , i have seen one person buy a property in one earthquake zone and have it destroyed and then buy another in what i am sure they felt was a safe haven from seismic problems in Chieti and yet from what they say the property has been bought in one of the several seismic one zones in that province and how did they meet the person that sold them this wonderful bargain , via a forum and a helpful member selling property with no qualifications but a good approach in being honest nice and helpful


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## josephdemeyer

*buying in Abruzzo*



italy said:


> an expensive lesson that provides useful info for those starting out on the road of buying here in Italy
> 
> no real criticisms although i find that most recommendations offered here on this forum are by the people themselves in guises that are not apparent although am not aiming that remark at you as your info seems quite widespread and useful..
> 
> re code fiscale it is so simple to get at home whilst waiting for other legalities to go through or even before making your trip, just ask for a postal application from the Italian embassy or consular service near to you, costs nothing and apart from August is usually done in a couple of weeks
> 
> you will find that most agents do not have their own building companies, but that most agents that sell to foreign buyers alone do and as you say be very cautious about either buying via them or using associated services
> 
> the holding back of land is very common practice amongst those types of agencies as they then offer the land for sale or try to develop it via their own projects to sell on again, so spot on once again
> 
> red zoned and seismic 1 areas are as you say to be avoided and its not just the fact that you might not be allowed to build its also the fact that should you gain renovation permissions that build costs which are already high here will be sometimes doubled or more.. when for instance to make a property safe they have to sink so much concrete and steel into the ground that you will pay as much for below ground work as that above
> 
> seismic areas are listed on the civile protection site so are easily found for the whole of Italy not just Abruzzo and i would say it is essential to avoid class 1 zones for not only your own piece of mind but for costs
> 
> more common and easier to hide are areas that are zoned red as regards the stability of the land, clues to this are simple, very undulating road ways or land slips where half the road is missing.. steep steps in fields where the field has slipped down hill .. are good clues.. the comune technical office will have all of its territory mapped and zoned
> 
> other things to be aware of and be cautious of are agencies without their P.IVA on their website.. that is illegal.. all registered agencies, in fact any business has to have that number displayed, unless its a bed and breakfast and in that case it has to display its codice fiscale.. so a good initial clue is that even before you start to look
> 
> the second number that has to be displayed for an estate agent here is their inscription number in the chamber of commerce where their business is based and indeed you can go on the website for the chamber of commerce in Italy and check if anyone with the name you are dealing with is registered to act in any capacity be it building or selling here in Italy.. anyway the number has to be displayed by law as does their business address and i would not work with anyone that does not have premises here that are registered.
> 
> however all that does not secure your safety one otr two agencies have grown so big that they have assumed guises of legality whilst still operating on the side of the law by allowing not registered people to show houses and negotiate deals
> 
> unless you actually are talking to the person registered and qualified to sell property when you ask questions regarding the property they have no legal obligation to tell the truth and obviously you have no recourse should they lie
> 
> so a scout is fine for initial discussions and or viewings but real negotiations and questions need to be asked from the qualified agent
> 
> dont be fooled by private sellers or chats with people in the bars or even helpful friendly natives, experience suggests that often these people do this as part time work especially in those areas that have large amounts of expats, to be honest many properties that are sold in this way have been turned down by reputable agents as carrying too many problems and many might believe they have bought property simply and without problems but unless you are an Italian legal expert i would doubt you could actually secure yourself in this respect, problems might well take years to arrive through the letter box up to and including problems with unpaid bills and debts that attach to a property rather than a person or people quite happily declaring to be sole owners when minuscule arts of a property are often held by obscure relatives often who have emigrated and one day find a bit of paper or a relative dies that gives them rights that were never fully explored
> 
> that is essentially why agents that are registered are allowed to charge such seemingly high fees because by law they have to investigate fully property before offering it for sale via their agency as should an Italian buy a property via them with a load of hidden faults they will get into trouble, get fined and or loose lots of reputation
> 
> seems strange to me that many people do not go with the main agencies here .. for example tecnocasa is present throughout Italy and maybe does not hold as many properties that are rural as one might like but i would suggest they may well have a few and that if you view a few houses with them you will get an excellent idea of property prices and agency practices as served up by Italians to Italians, am not recommending them to buy through but as a good way of learning at least or any similar national Italian centered agency that operates within the law here, you might well be surprised, they often charge 4% and have minimum charges too but you have to ask yourselves why would Italians pay that extra, the other point is that sellers pay the higher fee too but what you might well find is that house prices are lower because they are so big and have a reputation for selling property quickly they will always or almost always drive selling prices down in order to sell quicker
> 
> i do get surprised about how easily people seem to get taken in and ignore all common sense but its useless to argue that point as it happens so often it just has to be accepted as the way
> 
> these forums to my mind offer much wise practical advice but also many honey traps , i have seen one person buy a property in one earthquake zone and have it destroyed and then buy another in what i am sure they felt was a safe haven from seismic problems in Chieti and yet from what they say the property has been bought in one of the several seismic one zones in that province and how did they meet the person that sold them this wonderful bargain , via a forum and a helpful member selling property with no qualifications but a good approach in being honest nice and helpful


To all:
We have just concluded buying our sweet home in Ofena, Abruzzo and already moved in. Will write about our -positive-experiences plus some advice in coming weeks. Joseph and Vee


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## Barry

Congratulations!
What is your address? We are right above you in Carrufo at 57 via della Madonna as Gianni probably told you. You have to go up to Carrufo and meet Gus & Anne if you haven't already. They are getting pretty home sick for Canada and love to talk. Ron Celli from Florida will be in Carrufo for October helping his Dad get his house fixed. There will be a couple of Canadians as well visiting about the same time. Have you met Angelo Dionisio from Toronto? He should be over shortly to harvest his olives in Ofena. 
As you can tell we are feeling out of touch and I'am giving serious thoughts to retiring and moving over to Carrufo full time. The only problem is our daughter won't let us bring the grand daughter with us!


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## pudd 2

josephdemeyer said:


> To all:
> We have just concluded buying our sweet home in Ofena, Abruzzo and already moved in. Will write about our -positive-experiences plus some advice in coming weeks. Joseph and Vee


well done i hope you gain as much pleasure as we have living in abruzzo its a great place , i know ofena area well as i have a freand who is renovating a place in Capistrano and i am helping him whith tranlaitions to get his proget though , what you must bear in mind is that all the area round AQ is in turmoil and it whill take while to get back to normal but it whill . we have lived in abruzzo for 7 years and have had good times and bad but the good outways the bad , once a gain good luck and if you are out our way pop in for a coffe and a chat


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## italy

http://www.primadanoi.it/notizie/27252-Ofena-a-13-mesi-da-sisma-ordinanze-di-sgombero-Rossi-%ABintervenga-prefetto%BB

http://www.earthquake.it/blog/2009/terremoto-in-provincia-di-pescara-29-marzo-2009/


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## scottsinton

AJORDAN said:


> Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
> Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
> Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
> Andrea


Andrea A very late, possibly too late reply. We bought in Abruzzo, Poggiofiorito, some 4 years ago-used housearound italy but would NOT recommend them. We are from NZ and spend 4-5 months a year in Italy. Have conatcts that I can give you, such as plumber electrician etc-all very good. If we can help let me know and then we can email directly. David Sinton. PS we returned home 2 weeks ago


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## valerie1

scottsinton said:


> Andrea A very late, possibly too late reply. We bought in Abruzzo, Poggiofiorito, some 4 years ago-used housearound italy but would NOT recommend them. We are from NZ and spend 4-5 months a year in Italy. Have conatcts that I can give you, such as plumber electrician etc-all very good. If we can help let me know and then we can email directly. David Sinton. PS we returned home 2 weeks ago


Hi
Thank you any names of tradesmen but be greatly appreciated. We bought our property from Ancient Properties (and would and have recommended them. We toolooked at housearound italy and realised that they wanted to charge for things that others do free). 
We are very slowly trying to get the house in order so all recommendations and gratefully received.

Valerie


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## scottsinton

valerie said:


> Hi
> Thank you any names of tradesmen but be greatly appreciated. We bought our property from Ancient Properties (and would and have recommended them. We toolooked at housearound italy and realised that they wanted to charge for things that others do free).
> We are very slowly trying to get the house in order so all recommendations and gratefully received.
> 
> Valerie


Valerie
Where abouts did you buy? I will dig out my files and send you names of plumber, who speaks English, and is very good and reliable, he worked in New York for about 10 years, and the Electrician, who speaks a little English, but he is also very good, reliable, and thinks- In NZ I buy and renovate old houses, so are acquainted with what is needed. Regards David


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## valerie1

scottsinton said:


> Valerie
> Where abouts did you buy? I will dig out my files and send you names of plumber, who speaks English, and is very good and reliable, he worked in New York for about 10 years, and the Electrician, who speaks a little English, but he is also very good, reliable, and thinks- In NZ I buy and renovate old houses, so are acquainted with what is needed. Regards David


Hi David

Our house is near Casalanguida, about 23 km from Vasto.

Thank you for your help.

Regards
Valerie


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## Goingtoitalia

josephdemeyer said:


> We are just about to finalize the deed for a house in Ofena, Abruzzo, beginning September...so we have all the contacts...but also the frustrations !
> Will be happy to stay in touch. Joseph and Vee DeMeyer


Hello,
My name is Bruce and I am an American who bought in Ofena in 2008. I have made a few repairs and I am hoping to furnish my place on the next visit... Thinking in March 2011. Still a few months away  I was hoping to be there now, but my work required me to stay in the US in Sept./Oct. I would love to hear more about your place. I am right next to the old olive company just down the road from the piazza. My Email is [email protected] or you can befriend me on facebook.com/brucechipps
I look forward to hearing from you.
Ciao
Bruce


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## longlee

Hello,
We are new members to the site. We will be visiting Abruzzo this summer from Colorado, planning to buy a house where we will spend several months a year, for now. We have plans to look at two properties, one in Roccacasale in the Abruzzo National Park, and the other in Palmoli. Could any of you share what you know about each area to help us decide after viewing? My husband is a golfer; we love the sea, but not necessarily the beach. My husband loves the idea of being in the park, exploring, while I quite like the one in Palmoli where we have a sea view on a clear day. Thank you.


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## pudd 2

longlee said:


> Hello,
> We are new members to the site. We will be visiting Abruzzo this summer from Colorado, planning to buy a house where we will spend several months a year, for now. We have plans to look at two properties, one in Roccacasale in the Abruzzo National Park, and the other in Palmoli. Could any of you share what you know about each area to help us decide after viewing? My husband is a golfer; we love the sea, but not necessarily the beach. My husband loves the idea of being in the park, exploring, while I quite like the one in Palmoli where we have a sea view on a clear day. Thank you.


we have lived in abruzzo for 12 years now after purchasing our house in pretoro to retire to and start up a holliday let bussines , so we have a good idear of were to buyb na house or not 

first of all you have made a good choice in chosing the Cheiti region of Abruzzo , less land slides eathqakes ect , note i said less not none you still have to select your area carfuly 
if your hubby likes golf i would sugest buying somware on the val di foro near francerviller there is an exulant golf club at villamagna were they hold internat comps and its not expencive 

any way if you need any more heads up on abruzzo we are here to answer any ??? you have :welcome:


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## NickZ

longlee said:


> Hello,
> We are new members to the site. We will be visiting Abruzzo this summer from Colorado, planning to buy a house where we will spend several months a year, for now. We have plans to look at two properties, one in Roccacasale in the Abruzzo National Park, and the other in Palmoli. Could any of you share what you know about each area to help us decide after viewing? My husband is a golfer; we love the sea, but not necessarily the beach. My husband loves the idea of being in the park, exploring, while I quite like the one in Palmoli where we have a sea view on a clear day. Thank you.


I'm way so I'll just give you a short answer.

What do you intend to do? If all you want is to sit in the livingroom watching TV that's one thing. If you intend to use it for a base to explore from go to google maps and plug in the various places you want to travel to. Does it look reasonable?

Second no matter what you'll need a car. If you rent it'll be expensive. If you buy you'll either need to waste time during your vacation getting it serviced or you'll need to find a local to handle that for you

Really the answer depends on what you intend to do.


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## Pepone

Hello, I am living in Abruzzo in the Teramo province, so about the two villages I can not say anything. But what you should thinking about is, that you will travel very slow in Abruzzo when not using the highway. If you like to buy a house and spend a few month every year there, by my opinion it is better to look for a place which is good connected to the main roads. Naturaly, if you like to stay for the most time in the National Park it is better to buy a house in the park. By my opinion, it is no problem to find a nice house in the nature for a good price in a distance of 10-20 kilometers from the sea and highway and so you can reach fast the park, the sea, Miglionico (golf) and also Pescara or other bigger cities if you need. At the moment is the best time to buy a house in Italy, because the prices are very low and the exchange rate is very good if you are from the US. If you need some help, let me know....


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## pudd 2

nows the time to buy , exange rates are good . property prices falling due to new taxes on emty propetys its a buyers market at mo


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## venatore

Hi
I bought last year near Sulmona and had a great experience with Houseabruzzo.com. Very helpful and speaks good English which makes all the difference when you are still trying to learn Italian, also helped introduce a builder who turned out to be fab. Advice about roads is worthy of consideration, even poor roads are manageable in summer but in winter its a different matter. Main roads are pretty good and are cleared of snow quickly but back roads can take a while.


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## Djaki55

I've heard that it takes months to get through the process of buying a Villa in Italy. How long did it take for you to buy your house?


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## NickZ

It all depends on how motivated you are. No reason for it to take months if there aren't any problems to clear up. Mine took less then two weeks.


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## pudd 2

it depends our took no time at all and that was twelve years down the line and we still here and happy


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## Djaki55

Good to know. Thank you!


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## MaraD

I live in the U.S., but have a house in Abruzzo. If anybody needs geometra, builders and so on let me know. I think I have good contacts.
As for traveling to Abruzzo. When we arrive to Rome we get a bus that parks right in front of the exit of the airport and takes us to Alba Adriatica, 5 minutes from my house.
Also, there is Caramanico Terme which has the highest sulfur concentration in the water of all the European terme. It cured my rhinities, it cured 2 of my friends cox arthritis, it cure vaginal infections and so on. ......
Been going in Abruzzo all my life and I can't ever get tired of its beauty


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## pudd 2

Mara de ascanis said:


> I live in the U.S., but have a house in Abruzzo. If anybody needs geometra, builders and so on let me know. I think I have good contacts.
> As for traveling to Abruzzo. When we arrive to Rome we get a bus that parks right in front of the exit of the airport and takes us to Alba Adriatica, 5 minutes from my house.
> Also, there is Caramanico Terme which has the highest sulfur concentration in the water of all the European terme. It cured my rhinities, it cured 2 of my friends cox arthritis, it cure vaginal infections and so on. ......
> Been going in Abruzzo all my life and I can't ever get tired of its beauty


a good post nore will we tire of the beauty ever


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## Djaki55

How long did it take for you all to become residents of Italy once you applied?


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## pudd 2

Djaki55 said:


> How long did it take for you all to become residents of Italy once you applied?


how long is a piece of string  no serious i have translated for americans and english by going to various comunes , and it depends on the mood of the buracrat on the day or just how stuben they are 
it can be done in a half a hour as i say it just depends , but the main thing is keep smiling


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## Djaki55

Wow, I had no idea it could go so quickly!


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## AmyB1234

We are going for our first trip to abruzzo next month with a view to buying a house to relocate, can anyone help with their advice?

Thanks
Amy


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## pudd 2

AmyB1234 said:


> We are going for our first trip to abruzzo next month with a view to buying a house to relocate, can anyone help with their advice?
> 
> Thanks
> Amy


we bought in abruzzo 12 years ago and we live here and have a mountane of advise and like to pass it on ps we are verry happy and have not looked back , but its not been easy you need all the help on the ground you can get


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## pudd 2

Mara de ascanis said:


> Pudd could you please erase my post from August 22nd? Thanks
> M


will do when i have time to find it


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## StephanieAl

*Roccaspinalveti*

Im travelling to Roccaspinalveti this saturday to view a couple of houses. Is anyone else there ? Any advice ? also, if i decided to sign for a house, is there at set time in contract that says when you must deliver the money to the seller ? I have to sell my house here before i can get to any funds , it will sell fast but do they wait till you have sold your own house (in the uk) or do you have to give them the money within a certain time if you sign a contract stopping anyone else buying your dream house and also tying you to it ?
I really am in the dark with all this, single middle aged woman in desperate need of a new start


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## NickZ

You'll need to put up a deposit.

After that it's all negotiable. 

With this market ask/demand exactly what you need. Make it clear you won't close the purchase until you're ready.


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## pudd 2

StephanieAl said:


> Im travelling to Roccaspinalveti this saturday to view a couple of houses. Is anyone else there ? Any advice ? also, if i decided to sign for a house, is there at set time in contract that says when you must deliver the money to the seller ? I have to sell my house here before i can get to any funds , it will sell fast but do they wait till you have sold your own house (in the uk) or do you have to give them the money within a certain time if you sign a contract stopping anyone else buying your dream house and also tying you to it ?
> I really am in the dark with all this, single middle aged woman in desperate need of a new start


ive sent you a pm


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## ddgg

I live in the USA and am in the process of trying to obtain dual citizenship. My plan is to buy a small apartment in Gulianova or Roseto degli Abruzzi in a couple of years (want to visit regularly to decide where to buy). I have a decent knowledge of the language and am taking tutoring lessons to improve. 

Any advice on preparation and what to expect with regards to purchasing an apartment is greatly appreciated!


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## janeturner65

sheilamarsco said:


> just for the record i am a retired nurse and have nothing to do with estate agents in italy so i have no interest in promoting their business. i am expressing my own experience and have no complaints with the services i received.


Hello we have viewed several properties in Bisenti - are you still there?


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## GeordieBorn

No, Sheila is back in the UK a few years back....


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## janeturner65

GeordieBorn said:


> No, Sheila is back in the UK a few years back....


oh, that's a shame


----------

