# Working from Canada, reporting to US



## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

Hi guys

I have a bit of a complicated construct to submit to you: 

*Background: *
- I grew up in French-speaking Belgium, 
- spent some of my teens and my entire twenties in the UK, 
- moved from the UK to the Netherlands about 9 years ago. 
- Married a Dutch guy, we have 1 kid (born 2009). Our home language is English, with some French.

I have long been convinced I do not want to stay in Holland and things are in motion now towards a move to Canada. 

*Netherlands -> Canada/US role transfer*
The move would be organised through an internal transfer (I am lucky enough to work for a multinational company) which would have me report to a US manager, but be on the Canadian payroll (and be based in Canada). 

As a consultant, I expect to spend at least 2 days a week in the US if I do that. 

Here are my questions (sorry about the long-winded intro): 

1/ Does that mean that I will exceed the maximum number of days allowed to work in the US without a work permit (I would have a valid Canadian work permit, though)? 
2/ Has one of you done this (European, based in Canada, working in US)?


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## PatrickB (Feb 21, 2011)

born_expat said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I have a bit of a complicated construct to submit to you:
> 
> ...


As far as being part of a multi-national and living / working in Canada but reporting into someone from the US....that shouldn't be an issue. The gov't neither cares nor would even find out what your internal reporting structure would be.

I often worked in Canada yet reported into a manager in the US for previous multinationals.

Where you could run into a problem is the 2-days per week working at an office in the US. US immigration is likely to look at that as your being employed in the US (even if you are paid out of Canada).

There is a B-1 status VISA for business travel, however it's generally intended as temporary; going to the US on a week by week basis for two days may flag this as outside of the scope of the VISA.

You may want to see if your employer will help you with arranging a TN VISA; that would allow you to move more freely between the US and Canada and generally avoid any border hassles.

As long as your job falls into one of the categories defined by the TN VISA, it's usually pretty simple to arrange.


Patrick


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

PatrickB said:


> As far as being part of a multi-national and living / working in Canada but reporting into someone from the US....that shouldn't be an issue. The gov't neither cares nor would even find out what your internal reporting structure would be.
> 
> I often worked in Canada yet reported into a manager in the US for previous multinationals.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, Patrick! I have checked about the TN status, now (Wikipedia). Thanks a lot for pointing me in that direction. 

My understanding is that TN status is a trade agreement involving Canada/US/Mexico (do correct me if am wrong). As I am a European citizen, likely without a permanent residence permit in Canada in the first couple of years (the process of getting one is long-winded), I wonder if I am a valid candidate for TN status (my bond to Canada being so tenuous at the beginning)? 

From a profession's perspective, I've checked the list of professions covered and it won't be a problem (I could easily fall under either computer analyst or management consultant).


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

PatrickB said:


> As far as being part of a multi-national and living / working in Canada but reporting into someone from the US....that shouldn't be an issue. The gov't neither cares nor would even find out what your internal reporting structure would be.
> 
> I often worked in Canada yet reported into a manager in the US for previous multinationals.
> 
> ...


Oh, I forgot to mention. I wouldn't be going to the same place in the US week on week. It will all depend on where the customer is.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

I've started a new thread for this, specifically asking about the TN status: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/am...3953-tn-status-eu-citizen-living-toronto.html


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

born_expat said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention. I wouldn't be going to the same place in the US week on week. It will all depend on where the customer is.


That makes no difference. You are working for compensation in the US. B1 will not work as you will not be doing this as an occasional visit but on a regular basis. Looks like your employer is trying to get around US visa application or at least disregards potential implications. Border controll has access to each of your border crossings at their finger tips. So red flags will pop up in no time. 

I see this as a case for in-house legal and a second opinion. HR is probably clueless and management does not get involved. If anything goes wrong it will be you hanging in the wind. Do your homework before you sign the contract.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> That makes no difference. You are working for compensation in the US. B1 will not work as you will not be doing this as an occasional visit but on a regular basis. Looks like your employer is trying to get around US visa application or at least disregards potential implications. Border controll has access to each of your border crossings at their finger tips. So red flags will pop up in no time.
> 
> I see this as a case for in-house legal and a second opinion. HR is probably clueless and management does not get involved. If anything goes wrong it will be you hanging in the wind. Do your homework before you sign the contract.


Oh really? That sounds concerning. I'll ask to speak to in-house Legal US and Canada. Thanks for pointing it out. 

Red flags was also my concern. Weekly trip across the border is bound to raise questions.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

born_expat said:


> Oh really? That sounds concerning. I'll ask to speak to in-house Legal US and Canada. Thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> Red flags was also my concern. Weekly trip across the border is bound to raise questions.


Do you know, I've had time to digest what you said. It's tricky, because that's what I do today, only to different countries in Europe (spend 2 days a week away from my Netherlands base). Sometimes, although I am based in the Netherlands, I can spend the best part of my business week in another country. 

The only problem here is that it will happen to be the same destination country (US) for all these trips, and that, within the EU, passport control is a dawdle. 

What to do, what to do. I will indeed ask to speak to legal US, see what they say.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

born_expat said:


> Do you know, I've had time to digest what you said. It's tricky, because that's what I do today, only to different countries in Europe (spend 2 days a week away from my Netherlands base). Sometimes, although I am based in the Netherlands, I can spend the best part of my business week in another country.
> 
> The only problem here is that it will happen to be the same destination country (US) for all these trips, and that, within the EU, passport control is a dawdle.
> 
> What to do, what to do. I will indeed ask to speak to legal US, see what they say.


Apples and oranges. As EU resident different rules apply to travel/work within the EU.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> Apples and oranges. As EU resident different rules apply to travel/work within the EU.


Absolutely (apples/oranges). My point was: it's not even something I had seen as a problem before, given how open many borders are within the EU.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

born_expat said:


> Absolutely (apples/oranges). My point was: it's not even something I had seen as a problem before, given how open many borders are within the EU.


Would you mind to keep us posted? Thank you so much.

Personally - good luck!!! Vancouver is a great spot.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> Would you mind to keep us posted? Thank you so much.
> 
> Personally - good luck!!! Vancouver is a great spot.


Oh sure, no probs. I rather thought I was boring my forum mates half to death with my updates! 

Yep, I went to Vancouver and loved it. But it's even more out of the way, and now I've found out from HR Canada that the Vancouver office is essentially 10 people and that there wouldn't be a position for me. 

Having said that, as I'll be a mobile worker anyway... 

But to be honest, I just like the idea that we'd narrowed it down to one city. It makes fact-finding a lot less vague. I've been dreaming of our new home, checking out the recommended neighbourhoods on Google Earth and Streetview, lol! 

But am getting massively ahead of myself. It looks like securiing the transfer will be really tricky. 

P.S. I asked HR (US) today to give me a definite answer on the TN situation (permit to allow me to pop and and out of US from Canada a lot without suspicion on basis of my professional activities). They didn't really get the question, and are reluctant to give me a contact @ legal... Argh.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

That contact can be found:>) You have access to intranet or whatever the company refers to as employee platform? Try either recruiting (totally different from HR) and ask who the legal approach partner is. Or Google for "legal advisor", "in-house counsel", "Esq." and the company. Legal eagles love to prune their plumes in public. If you need help - PM.

I am confused. Is Vancouver still your target location?


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> That contact can be found:>) You have access to intranet or whatever the company refers to as employee platform? Try either recruiting (totally different from HR) and ask who the legal approach partner is. Or Google for "legal advisor", "in-house counsel", "Esq." and the company. Legal eagles love to prune their plumes in public. If you need help - PM.
> 
> I am confused. Is Vancouver still your target location?


Thanks twostep. They're funny about contacting people without their permission, so, to stay on the right side of them, I'll continue to wait for their answer. But thanks for the tip, though. If push comes to shove, at least I can be resourceful about it. 

Oh, and I have been in contact with recruiting. Wasn't aware it was a different department. So would you say their opinion on immigration matters is qualified? 

No, Toronto is. It was a question between Vancouver and Toronto, and HR indicated that Toronto was more appropriate (bigger office). Technically speaking, it doesn't really matter, though, as I'd be a mobile worker, but I like the idea that we've narrowed it down. So, Toronto it is, then.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

born_expat said:


> Oh, and I have been in contact with recruiting. Wasn't aware it was a different department. So would you say their opinion on immigration matters is qualified?


Besides that they love to hate each other:>)
HR often handles field recruiting on non-exempt or lower exempt position level, benefits, record keeping, payroll, ... falls into HR's field of expertise. Recruiting is involved with complex positions, often very discrete searches with an employee still in place.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> Besides that they love to hate each other:>)
> HR often handles field recruiting on non-exempt or lower exempt position level, benefits, record keeping, payroll, ... falls into HR's field of expertise. Recruiting is involved with complex positions, often very discrete searches with an employee still in place.


Oh, then I've landed in the right place. I think recruiting is dealing with my case.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

born_expat said:


> Oh, then I've landed in the right place. I think recruiting is dealing with my case.


In banking - branch customer service versus private banker:>) They tend to know what they are doing. But - keep in mind that nobody is perfect and check behind them. Especially when it comes to benefits:>)


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> In banking - branch customer service versus private banker:>) They tend to know what they are doing. But - keep in mind that nobody is perfect and check behind them. Especially when it comes to benefits:>)


Am going to go on the assupmption that whatever benefits they quote to me will work out, or I don't know what... I can't double check what everyone says, hey. 

Oh, am in touch with a Canada-based colleague who also emmigrated to Toronto (from South Africa) 15 years ago in exactly the same position, and also spends a lot of his time in the US, and he loves it. He's telling me the ins and outs of his situation to help me out. Lovely guy. Super helpful contact to have, and super friendly :clap2: . HR put me in touch with him.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

So, just talked to a South African colleague based in Toronto for past 15 years, who now has Canadian citizenship. I would have very similar role. 

He said he travels about 10 days a month, many of these to the US. 

He says he does this on the basis of a L1? visa, and alwyas did (even before he had Canadian citizenship). 

He does say that border control with the US stays a hassle every week, with really really really thorough checks. 

He mentioned that TN needed to be updated yearly, so he didn't do that. 

Thought I'd share.


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