# Very upset - is it worth getting a lawyer for this?



## Anitaesc992 (Feb 12, 2018)

Does anybody know of a lawyer I could potentially use for my situation? Or if this is even a realistic this?

My partner and I started living in Spain, in Andalucia only about 6 months ago. A few days ago, we had to travel to Madrid and stayed at this cheap hotel for one night. 
We stayed there barely 6 hours - arriving at around midnight and checking out at about 6am.

When we got home, I received an email informing me that we were being reported for "misconduct" at the hotel and that the hotel is apparently charging my credit card for damages because they claim that we horribly defaced the hotel room by spreading excrement all over the walls and ceiling! WTF. 

I was in shock of being accused of something so disgusting and blatantly untrue. I mean, it was so surreal that I initially thought the email might be spam or a scam, but a phone call to the website I booked through confirmed the complaint was real. (They also said they couldn't help, since this was between me and the hotel.)

The claim is beyond ridiculous, especially if you know me and my partner. Whenever we stay at a hotel we even make sure to put all our rubbish in the bin before checking out, and this time I even carefully read through their printed card with rules and warned my partner to be careful not to get any make-up stains on their towels, etc. 

So I called the hotel, and the lady who answered refused to believe that we didn't do it. She went on and on about what a disgusting mess it was, and how the poor cleaning person was traumatized, and how they couldn't sell the room the next night because it had to be taken apart and re-painted. 

I was extremely upset about being accused of this. I told her we didn't do it and that I'm sorry if this actually happened, but that it's not my fault because we never did such a thing. I asked if it could be the wrong room number or some other such misunderstanding but they confirmed it was apparently the room we were in. I asked if somebody could have come into the room after we left since we checked out so early, but she said no because they "control" who comes into the rooms tightly. But then WTF? In desperation, I asked if they had any security cameras in the hallway, though I knew this was unlikely, but she just said to call back on Monday to talk to the administrator when they are in. 

I contacted my bank and disputed the charge they made for the damages - more than 3 times what I paid for the hotel room - which I did not cause. But they are asking me to submit evidence that this was a fraudulent charge, of which I have none. They have temporarily stopped the payment to the hotel, but I'm afraid that they might not rule in my favor simply because I can't prove anything. 

I feel extremely discouraged, dismayed, powerless and afraid because I don't know much about the legal system here in Spain and I don't know if there is any realistic recourse for me, not least because my Spanish isn't perfect. 

Will the hotel sue me if I refuse to pay? Could they take me to court over this? Is this is a common scam in Madrid? They claim they have evidence of in the form of photographs, but even if this is true, it MUST have been somebody else that went into the room later after we checked out. However, we can't prove that we didn't do this. 

I don't want to pay for something we didn't do. I feel worried because my partner and I don't have very much money to spare for something ridiculous like this after moving here and all the costs involved. But I'm afraid that the money involved might not be enough that a lawyer would agree to help. I'm worried it might definitely end up costing a lot more to fight this and that it might not be worth it, but it's really painful to think that there is nothing I can do about this, because I didn't do anything wrong! 

I know people here aren't lawyers and can't specifically advise me on this, but I just wanted to know if anybody has experienced anything like this after moving here, or if they are familiar with the legal system enough here to have any ideas about what might come out of this, or who know a (preferably English speaking) lawyer who might be able to help. 

Thank you in advance.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

What a horrible experience. The only thing I could suggest is two things. Firstly, what you describe as having been done amounts to criminal damage. So you’d expect that the Guardia Civil would have got involved. If not, why not? It might be worth contacting them to see if they have and if not maybe even report them for fraud. Secondly, it also seems to me that they couldn’t charge you for anything without evidence, which they clearly don’t want to show you. I’m not sure if it’s an English bank or a Spanish bank they’re trying to get money from you but either way, unless you’re actually taken to court for these damages they have no right to charge you. If they could they could just charge anyone for anything. That notion is beyond ridiculous. Make sure no money is taken from your bank first and foremost and then wait and see if you get any kind of court summons. Also have a look on trip adviser for the hotel and maybe write your experience on a review on it. Good luck.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

What an experience!
If I were the hotel owners the first thing I would have would have been to take a photo. Obviously that still isn't proof that you did it, but it does prove that damage was done. As yet they have not sent you photos...
I don't understand the answer from the bank. I thought you could stop the payments you wanted - maybe not if you paid with credit card.
As Dunpleecin says I would have thought they would have got the Guardia Civil/ Police involved, but maybe not as a foreign couple they might have thought it wasn't worth it.
However, at present you haven't been presented with any evidence and so shouldn't pay.
The only way forward seems to be name and shame (not on this forum though; your post will be taken down). I would advice against a long rant with lots of capital letters and bad language as people might just ignore this trolling. Short, to the point with some main words capitalized perhaps. You have Trip Advisor and the comments on Google maps to start with. Write the document in word and copy and past as many times as needed.
Good Luck and try not to let the "hotel baddies" get you down. If you end up paying, let it go and move on.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

You need to ask for their libro de reclamaciones as an absolute starting point. This is their complaints book and they have to provide you with the forms, if they refuse you can call the Policia. I would be claiming all that you stated in no uncertain terms, this is fraud bordering on theft and a defamation of character. At the very least once you do this you will get an idea of just how serious they are and if they have any "evidence".

Then I would certainly be contacting a lawyer because it's amazing how the same questions have different answers depending on who is asking. Lawyers get respect a guiri never will.
I would contact someone like Antonio Flores, simply because he is high profile and would at the very least give you advice initially before seeing if he will take the case.

I would suggest publicly challenging the hotel on facebook, tripadvisor and such but not before you have asked for their complaint book forms and contacted a lawyer(who would probably say that is a bad idea anyway).

I will add the above I feel is necessary and if you need help as it may seem daunting then maybe there is an agency that can help with translations or a trusted gestor? 

Out of interest have you checked their tripadvisor comments? If it is something they do then surely some negative reviews have been left and may help you if it is a common practice.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

I agree with the recommendations to post a review on tripadvisor. It is very easy to create an account if you don't have one. Complaints on facebook and twitter can get traction too.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Personally I wouldn't just yet as there are really only two ways this will go down, three if the OP caves and pays up.
Either the hotel will back down when facing the prospect of the complaints book and possible police investigation or it goes to court and if it does go to court posting negative reviews and naming and shaming will likely do more harm than good.

By all means go to town after there is some kind of resolution but do things by the book first.

Call them and ask for their complaints book forms to be emailed to you by a certain time and send them an email at the same time stating the same message, they can reply to your email and have your contact then. Get as much discussion as you can via email, demand it.
Tell them if the forms are not in your inbox by the set time you will have to consider that they are not complying to your request which by law they have to and then you will consider it your legal right to report it to the Policia.

Then report it to the Policia and you can then download the appropriate complaints forms and file the complaint anyway.

If your Spanish is not up to it get some help from someone, correspond in writing only if you can in both Spanish and English.

Most important is you are in charge, you make the demands now. Not them. Failure to comply by them only sees the authorities get involved. See how keen they are on that.

At this point you have done as much as you can really and I would definitely contact a lawyer or the OMIC or preferably both. The problem will either go away or you will get your day in court.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

1) Have you asked for photos of the supposed damage to the room? That would be the first thing I would do and wait to see what happens. 

2) You wrote the bank asked for evidence. Clearly, you have your original receipt for XX.xx amount. Anything above and beyond that would have to be done with your approval which the Hotel did not have. 

3) The final thing I would do would be to sit back and wait to see what the hotel sends. If there is nothing coming, I would contact the local Guarda and file a complaint against the bank. Extortion, Fraud and Bank Fraud are three possibilities which come to mind.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Phil Squares said:


> 1) The final thing I would do would be to sit back and wait to see what the hotel sends. If there is nothing coming, I would contact the local Guarda and file a complaint against the bank. Extortion, Fraud and Bank Fraud are three possibilities which come to mind.


Against the bank or the hotel?


> *Pazcat* Personally I wouldn't just yet as there are really only two ways this will go down, three if the OP caves and pays up.
> Either the hotel will back down when facing the prospect of the complaints book and possible police investigation or it goes to court and if it does go to court posting negative reviews and naming and shaming will likely do more harm than good.


I wouldn't go where, sorry, I don't know what you're referring to here? If it's putting a report on Trip Adviser etc then I disagree. This seems to be the way to go nowadays and the way to get a reaction from the company in the wrong. In fact I'd go as far as to say that this is what is expected of the client nowadays.However, this needs to be done in a measured and "respectful" manner. Hurling abuse will get you nowhere.
The complaints forms I agree with though. A good starting point.

Hope the OP is reading the replies...


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

All sounds a bit strange, is it a reputable hotel. I would definitely start by looking on Trip Advisor and putting on you experience too. Also visit your local consumer dept for advice. Going to a Lawyer at this stage will be costly, more than the hotel is charging you.

You could always ask for a DNA test of the excrement

Have a look at this. European complaints centre...it's free

http://www.ukecc.net/contact-us/index.cfm


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## rspltd (Jul 5, 2016)

I would also concur with some of the previous replies - reaching for Facebook/Trip advisor or some other social media will only allow the situation to escalate. As has been said the first thing to ask for is evidence. Firstly you want pictures that it was actually your room, that there was 'damage' and thirdly that the 'damage' eminated from you. Asking for their complaint book will also send a strong signal that a). you know the official procedures in Spain and b). that you intend to contest the claims. Spain is not a litigous country in the main - mainly because the legal system is tediously slow - softly, softly is the name of the game.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

Sorry, a complaint against the Hotel.


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## Anitaesc992 (Feb 12, 2018)

Thank you so much all for the messages. Your advice has been very instructive. 

I will firstly be in contact with the hotel first thing tomorrow through email and ask them for the photographs and any other evidence they claim to have. I will also be asking for their complaint book/forms. 

I hope it doesn't escalate after that, but if necessary I will be exploring all the other options mentioned. Hopefully, my bank will not allow the payment to go through if I send them the reservation info with the amount for the room which is the only charge that I consented to. 

I did check the reviews of the hotel before booking and they were all pretty decent; definitely nothing bad anywhere near this scale, so it's all very strange and unexpected.


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## Anitaesc992 (Feb 12, 2018)

Ah - from googling, it seems the potential complaint book forms are usually in carbonless copy paper and the establishment also needs to be able to sign them too, before I file them. Would this mean the hotel can't simply email them to me if I ask? ie. would I have to go back in person and fill them out there where they can sign it too?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Complaints online
https://www.ocu.org/consumo-familia/derechos-consumidor/consejos/como-reclamar


> * En el caso de que la empresa fuera online* o no tiene un lugar físico al que acudir, llama a su servicio de atención al cliente. Si no se soluciona y quieres poner una reclamación, descárgate el impreso oficial a través de la página web de la Dirección General de Consumo de tu Comunidad Autónoma.


So I guess tell them that's what you're doing...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It seems the owners of this hotel are trying to rip you off and intimidate you because you are a guiri and can't tell them where to get off in their own language.
Take the initiative. Show them, to use the time-honoured phrase, you know your rights, because you do have rights.
Court action is a very last resort and imo not worth considering. You could wait months, years even, for a case to be heard and you will have to put money upfront, most likely more than the amount these scumbags are trying to extort from you.
As you have already been advised, ask for the Complaints Book. That will show that you are beginning a fight back. Next stop might be a denuncia, depending on the response. 
That might be enough.
Social media, imo, should be used only after you've tried the other steps first. Afterwards you can roast the owners of this probably failing hotel.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Firstly, I don't think that this is a scam. Scammers don't write e-mails to their victims to advise them of the charges (which gives them time to block the payments).

I don't know why they would invent something like this and then write to you to tell you about it (my bet is that it is a aggrieved room cleaner who has done it and blamed you as the guests, but that's pure speculation), but it would be interesting to see the terms and conditions of the reservation.
It would also be intersting to see the terms and conditions of the reservation site. Thay say they cannot get involved, but did you make the payment through them or direct with the Hotel?

Usually by making the booking and giving your card information you are legally authorising the business to make all charges that you are liable for, so other poster's comments on them "having no right to cahrge your card" are probably wrong. Of course, that right does require justification which it seems is lacking in this case. 

I agree with the others who recommend the formal complaint route, without this you will be lost. Make copies of the complaint and send them to your bank instructing them that they MUST NOT pay the charges until the formal complaint is resolved.

Make all communications with the hotel and your bank by Burofax with certified content and acknowlegdement of receipt.

Very few people who have their cards "fraudulently" charged ever get the luxury that you have of being able to stop the payment, even if it is temporary. Use this to your advantage. I would spend as much time speaking to the bank (possibly more) than with the hotel, the bank should be on your side (but they may need reminiding of that if it is a Spanish bank). 

Do anything and everything you can to stop the hotel from getting your cash. They will not take you to court.


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## gregovens (Feb 20, 2012)

Ask for photographic evidence of the damage, if it was so bad that the cleaner was traumatised then they would have taken photos as evidence. Try this and see what they say!
It’s a horrible situation to be in and l hope you get a good result from it.
Best of luck
Greg Ovens


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

And the end of the story is...???


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