# Landing Card from Last Visit



## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

Another thread, oops!

I was just wondering if I am in trouble..

I visited family and friends in the UK in August of 2015.

At the time I was planning to stay for 3 weeks exactly, but as the trip went on I found I wasn't getting to do as much as I'd liked - didn't see enough of London, and I wanted to go outside the city too.

Long story short I ended up staying for 5 weeks exactly instead of the 3 I filled out on my landing card, and told to the customs official. This was an innocent move, as I sincerely did not think I'd be extending my ticket, it was just a spur of the moment change supported by my family.

In my old passport I have a stamp that says "leave to enter for 6 months, no recourse to public funds." No underline, no note, nothing that appears as though I've been granted less permission than 6 months. I used just over 1/6th of that time.

I am due to enter the UK on a Tier 5 YMS visa in mid-February.

Will this previous stay get me in trouble at the border?

I want to note that did NOT lie on my application form - I stated the exact date I entered and exited the UK in 2015, the full 5 weeks. My visa was approved without incident, though is this information something the consulate in New York would see? (original planned date of exit vs. actual exit)

I'm very worried that I messed this up for myself, even though my visa has been approved and issued to me.

Thank you!


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

I doubt it will get you in any trouble, only going off anecdotal evidence. If you had entry clearance for 6 months and stayed for 5 weeks it would be unlikely they will quibble over what you put on your landing card. I only say this because my brother's wife did exactly that and had no problems on re-entry. I can't say it's 100% correct though as I'm only going off a very small sample size.

At worst they might ask you a couple of questions about why you extended your stay (I'm guessing) but my personal opinion is that I very much doubt they will turn you away! Don't worry, and enjoy your time in the UK


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I wouldn't worry too much about it _now_, seeing as they've granted you your Tier 5 visa (congrats, btw).

If the Home Office had any concerns about your 2 week "extension" on your last visit (which they _could_ see when they ran your passport through their system), they would have made a big stink about it when you applied for your Tier 5. They didn't at that time, so it's not likely that anyone will say anything when you arrive in a few weeks.

Now, step away from the internet and go start packing!

Have a safe trip over!


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

Thank you kindly Kotch and WestCoastCanadianGirl (go Canada!) for your responses!

Kotch, how much longer did your brother's wife stay than she intended?
I'm still a bit worried but I dunno if I have reason to be - I stayed 2 weeks longer, not 2 months. I'm also going back on a valid (work) visa ..

WestCoastCanadaGirl, I'm actually relieved that they saw all that information to be honest! If they saw it, saw I did not lie on my application, and still decided to grant me the visa it must mean they didn't mind staying slightly longer

I do have one more question for anyone.. It also concerns the landing card so I'll put it here.
It asks for a duration of stay. My first instinct is to put "2 years" but I'm arriving in the UK actually 2 days AFTER my visa becomes valid. Would this be a problem? Am I technically saying to the border agency that I'm "overstaying" by 2 days?

Would 1 year 11 months be a more suitable answer?

Thank you guys! This forum is so sweet and helpful!


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

My bro's wife had a 6 month visit visa, put an intended stay of 2 month on landing card and ended up staying 3 months. I really don't think that what you put on there is going to cause yoh any problems - as WCCG said, if they had any issues you would know by now. Also I imagine it's extremely common for people to extend their stays and after all, you didn't overstay your visa which is all they really care about.

As for your intended stay on the new landing card I don't think they will quibble about the fact that you would technically be overstaying by a couple of days - but if you want to be sure just put 363 days 

Now, relax, take a breath, pack your bags and look forward to some warm beer, bad food, worse teeth and an unfathomable sense of humour!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Incorrect advice here. While for most people, extending their stay beyond what they have declared on landing card has no consequences, it CAN be used as a reason for denying your next visa application. True, for many non-visa nationals, it's only the entry on landing card that can be used as evidence, and most cards are destroyed after a while and not kept. But some are retained (called Code 3 Landing), summary of conversation with immigration officer is recorded electronically and they can be used as evidence of discrepancy leading to a charge of dishonesty. Also for visa nationals, their application form is kept and they can look up what they have originally requested as length of stay, and voluntary extension can be used as evidence. While it's not something most people should worry about, there are circumstances in which extending your stay without compelling reason can affect future visa applications.


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

Hi Joppa, I saw your advice like this in another thread which is what got me worried!

_The stamp in my passport has a (2) in it, what does this mean?_ - EDIT: nevermind this, this seems to be the terminal number. I entered via terminal 2.

I understand that "overstaying" (but not overstaying the visa) can have consequences. I have heard from multiple sources that it MAY affect a future visa application, however I applied and got my visa issued, and did not lie about my entry/exit dates.

Does this mean I am in the clear?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, most likely. UKVI must be under pressure to deny visas on technicality in order to reduce the absurd level of inward migration. So if they think there is a possibility of denial, they will leave no stones unturned to find a reason, including previous 'legal' overstay.
Usually (2) on entry stamp means Terminal 2 (like at Heathrow, Manchester etc).


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

OKay Joppa, thank you!

I do not have a code 3 entry stamp on my old passport. It's a plain regular Heathrow stamp with no handwritten notes, no underlines, or no codes.

Of course if they ask me if I stayed 5 weeks I'll answer truthfully, I'm just hoping it doesn't come up.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

This 'dishonesty' charge for voluntary extension is something new, which I have only first come across in the last 12 months. Home Office must have realised that a lot of people ask for a shorter stay (so that their request is likely to be granted), and then once they get their visa or leave (usually for 6 months, as per immigration rules), they just extend their stay up the maximum allowed. While they cannot be charged with overstay, they can now punish people for dishonesty. Lying to an immigration officer is against the rules. I have seen at least one case of ECO using the charge of dishonesty as one of the reasons for visa denial, so I now suggest people to be very cautious.


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

I've seen an instance of a person being denied entry into the UK because (both times on tourist "visas" aka he applied at the border) he told the officer he'd be staying for 1 month or something and stayed closer to 5.5?

It might not have been true, it was on a random little forum that I cannot even recall the name of at the moment.

Honestly I do not understand it. If these people do not overstay their visas OR commit criminal acts, use the NHS uninsured or steal benefits money I really don't see why them staying a little longer is an issue. But of course I don't make the rules.

Did the entry clearance officer deny a tourist visa or something like a work/study visa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think it was a work visa.


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

Well that's reignited all of my worries!

I think I'd rather have the visa flat out denied before I left Canada than travel all that way and be out all this money to get denied at the border. For staying 2 weeks longer on a holiday. For non-malicious reasons!

Again, I didn't stay severely past my stated date of arrival and I didn't get the code 3 stamp, so does this mean this information was not saved?

I guess I'll just have to see at the border.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You should be ok. They aren't too concerned about Tier 5 YMS visa holders, as they only stay 2 years and can't get settlement (unless they switch into leave that can like spouse, when they can scrutinise at that point).


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

Yeah, I honest to God have to intention of overstaying, or even staying past the terms of my visa. 

I just want to explore the UK and experience it in deeper ways than just on a touristy holiday.

Thank you for your kind and informative answers to everything!


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry if my view was wrong - I was working on the assumption (as WestCoastCanadianGirl suggested) that if they granted the OP the visa then there would be no problems at the border.

If I'm reading this right - he may still (although unlikely) have problems at the border? Given that, it would seem to suggest that UKVI are not sharing info with border control at the application process?

Sorry for the questions - just trying to wrap my head around how it all works as it seems things may have changed since my bro's wife stayed longer than her landing card suggested, which did not affect her FLR application but may affect her ILR application later this year....


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Let's get things into perspective. Only in some isolated cases has voluntary extension been flagged up as problem, and usually by people who have rather a chequered immigration history. People who have stayed longer than initially declared, especially non-visa nationals, shouldn't worry too much about it as probably no record has been kept about what they have said or written on immigration card at previous occasion. Only when you were told they were giving you Code 3 Landing or stamp you should be more careful, as electronic record is kept of your conversation with immigration officer and your landing card is scanned and stored, which will flash up next time you enter UK or apply for a visa. Code 3 stamp has boxes in which your landing card number is entered. Visa nationals should be more cautious, as all previous application forms are kept and reference can be made, but not instantly at the immigration desk (it can be dug out from their system when you are taken in for questioning).


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## Madeleine (Jun 25, 2013)

I've received 2 coded landings in my time ... To cut a long story short, I came to the UK maybe once a year to visit my partner between 2007 and 2012 before moving here in 2013. My two visits in 2007 and one visit in 2008 presented no problems for me, but I received a coded landing and was asked A LOT of questions in my 2010 and 2012 visits. I didn't know what these codes even meant until I consulted this forum as no one bothered to explain to me what the problem was, what their suspicions were, or what the codes in my passport meant. I did get the basic gist though from the questions I was asked, such as why I was here, how long I intended to stay, how I was funding my trip. I was absolutely mortified when asked to produce evidence of how much money I had and then the officer actually started to count my cash! I had never overstayed and never stayed beyond the period stated on my landing card, until my partner's mother died suddenly and very unexpectedly in August 2010, 4 weeks after I arrived in the UK and received my first coded landing. As previously mentioned, I didn't understand what this code meant and assumed that, being given 6 months' entry clearance, it was okay to stay 6 months. I had originally booked for 3 months but then ended up staying for 6 months exactly because I couldn't bear to leave my partner's family. 

So this visit lasted August 2010 - February 2011, and my next visit to the UK was for 4 weeks November 2012. I was then asked a lot of questions at passport control, asked to provide evidence that I was doing a Masters Degree in Sydney at the time (I didn't bring this with me). It was even suggested to me that because I extended my visit the previous time, I would do so again this time, and warned that there would be trouble if I did. I was told, "We just don't understand how you are funding all these expensive trips." I had to explain that I lived with my parents, had no expenses, worked part time and went to university full time. The Officer said to me that full time university in the UK means you don't have time for a job and I had to tell her that that's not how it worked in Australia. Got into a semi argument about the educational differences between the UK and Australia, how the Australian wages were higher, had to convert my hourly rate of pay at the bookshop I worked in into GBP (about £18 an hour!) to illustrate how I managed to save for these "expensive trips" once a year. It was after this visit that I understood they suspected me of working illegally in the UK each time I came over, but never was that explicitly mentioned. 

Despite this, I had no problems with my Tier 5 YMS visa in 2013 which was approved within the week. I have since successfully obtained FLR M and I am on the first 2.5 stage. I did however disclose the fact that I stayed for 6 months instead of the 3 I originally stated and I explained the reason for this. It is best, always, to be honest. I am by no means complacent and I intend to disclose this again when I apply for the second stage of FLR M (Joppa - would you recommend I mention this on all future applications?). When I entered the UK on my YMS visa I had no problems and wasn't asked any questions apart from, "Oh you're on YMS?" I left the UK twice whilst on this visa, once for a holiday in Greece and once for a visit home to Australia and didn't have any problems on re-entry. I have left the UK once on my current FLR M for a holiday in Greece last summer and the ECO at Leeds Bradford asked a few questions about my partner, what the problem had been previously and what the codes meant in my passport. I think this was just curiosity more than anything else as she didn't know herself what the codes meant. I just said I wasn't completely sure, and she said, "Well it doesn't matter now you've got your BRP, does it!" 

I know every case and experience is different, so I'm not by any means suggesting that someone in the same situation as me won't have any problems. A 2 week extension is nowhere near 3 months, though, and it all worked out well for me.


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

In terms of not having time for a job while at university full time in the UK that officer was talking absolute total and utter nonsense... Most ridiculous spouting of clap trap I've heard this year!


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## Madeleine (Jun 25, 2013)

kotch said:


> In terms of not having time for a job while at university full time in the UK that officer was talking absolute total and utter nonsense... Most ridiculous spouting of clap trap I've heard this year!


I know! It was absolutely ridiculous. In addition to the fact it isn't true, it's like it didn't even occur to them the possibility that perhaps things are different in a different country. In Australia, my "full time" university course load was about 4 hours of class time per week! I basically worked about 30 hours per week on top of that and still had time to get a first class degree.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I think you have to consider that this was a questioning tactic to see if you could justify it and you did.


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## clever-octopus (May 17, 2015)

Often they say things like this to get a rise out of you on purpose. I have a great deal of respect for border officials, but their tactics aren't always transparent and they do have certain reactions they're looking for in response to loaded questions. All you can really do is remain calm, civil, and honest.


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

It's interesting that they would question how you could afford the trips... I mean anybody could answer that easily by saying 'My family are wealthy'. Maybe they feared you were coming here to work?

BTW Joppa - thanks for adding that perspective. Checked with Sister-in-law and she doesn't have any codes or anything so no worries on that front.


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## Madeleine (Jun 25, 2013)

clever-octopus said:


> Often they say things like this to get a rise out of you on purpose. I have a great deal of respect for border officials, but their tactics aren't always transparent and they do have certain reactions they're looking for in response to loaded questions. All you can really do is remain calm, civil, and honest.


Well yes of course. I smiled all the way through, remained calm and polite whilst seething on the inside. I think their tactic is always to try to catch you out and assume you're being dishonest.


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## Madeleine (Jun 25, 2013)

kotch said:


> It's interesting that they would question how you could afford the trips... I mean anybody could answer that easily by saying 'My family are wealthy'. Maybe they feared you were coming here to work?


Yes that is what they assumed - although why not explicitly state that that was their assumption or ask if I was working here illegally? They had absolutely no proof I was working illegally, because I wasn't. What annoyed me was that they didn't understand that my current circumstances (at the time) made saving very easy. I worked basically full time, lived with my parents and had no expenses other than my car and mobile phone. And with a year in between visits, that's a year of saving to fund an "expensive trip" where I didn't have any accommodation costs or even food, really, to pay for while I was here. I think I also mentioned that if I needed money, my Dad would send it, although there wouldn't have been any need because I had a lot of savings at the time.


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## clever-octopus (May 17, 2015)

> I think their tactic is always to try to catch you out and assume you're being dishonest.


By default I think they have to... The worst border-crossing experience I ever had was actually coming back to the US from the UK; my now-husband and I had just gotten engaged whilst I was over. The US border patrol officer asked me what I was doing in the UK and I said "visiting my boyfriend, now fiancé" and he looked me straight in the eye and said "you couldn't find an American who wanted to marry you?" and kept grilling me on why I "couldn't find someone here" or why I "had to look for a husband in another country". I have never had such a hard time retaining my composure. And yes, again, that was in my native country.

I understand they have to be careful, but it doesn't leave a great impression...


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## Madeleine (Jun 25, 2013)

clever-octopus said:


> By default I think they have to... The worst border-crossing experience I ever had was actually coming back to the US from the UK; my now-husband and I had just gotten engaged whilst I was over. The US border patrol officer asked me what I was doing in the UK and I said "visiting my boyfriend, now fiancé" and he looked me straight in the eye and said "you couldn't find an American who wanted to marry you?" and kept grilling me on why I "couldn't find someone here" or why I "had to look for a husband in another country". I have never had such a hard time retaining my composure. And yes, again, that was in my native country.


That is absolutely despicable. Is there ever a point, do you think, where you can say, "It's none of your business"? I have never been asked what my motivations were for visiting a certain country whilst trying to get back into my home country. And also, your husband may have been an American living in the UK. It just seems to me sometimes that they don't choose to employ logic in these situations.


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

clever-octopus said:


> By default I think they have to... The worst border-crossing experience I ever had was actually coming back to the US from the UK; my now-husband and I had just gotten engaged whilst I was over. The US border patrol officer asked me what I was doing in the UK and I said "visiting my boyfriend, now fiancé" and he looked me straight in the eye and said "you couldn't find an American who wanted to marry you?" and kept grilling me on why I "couldn't find someone here" or why I "had to look for a husband in another country". I have never had such a hard time retaining my composure. And yes, again, that was in my native country.
> 
> I understand they have to be careful, but it doesn't leave a great impression...


Wow... and you still have respect for border officials? You have an admirable capacity for forgiveness.


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## kotch (Jan 3, 2016)

Madeleine said:


> Yes that is what they assumed - although why not explicitly state that that was their assumption or ask if I was working here illegally? They had absolutely no proof I was working illegally, because I wasn't. What annoyed me was that they didn't understand that my current circumstances (at the time) made saving very easy. I worked basically full time, lived with my parents and had no expenses other than my car and mobile phone. And with a year in between visits, that's a year of saving to fund an "expensive trip" where I didn't have any accommodation costs or even food, really, to pay for while I was here. I think I also mentioned that if I needed money, my Dad would send it, although there wouldn't have been any need because I had a lot of savings at the time.


Ironically, in my profession people are leaving the UK in droves to move to your country of origin because the pay and conditions are far superior


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## Madeleine (Jun 25, 2013)

kotch said:


> Ironically, in my profession people are leaving the UK in droves to move to your country of origin because the pay and conditions are far superior


I know.  I must admit to being very homesick and in terms of the wages here, I am just despairing. I do want to move back to Australia at some point, but at the moment it makes sense for us to be here. I couldn't get my partner to Australia on a partner visa because we hadn't lived together - had been together for 8 years but only seen each other for a period of 6 months maximum per visit (sometimes only a matter of weeks). I still don't know how we managed to stay together for so long despite the distance. I couldn't be brought to the UK on a spouse or fiance visa either as, at the time, my partner didn't earn the income threshold. The easiest option was for me to come to the UK on a YMS visa which entitled me to work, then get married and both our salaries would be taken into account to calculate the threshold, but by the time we applied for FLR M, my partner got a promotion and earned well over the threshold so we didn't count my salary. I think we will stay in the UK until I qualify for naturalisation because if I spend any length of time in Australia, we will be back to square one and as you know, these visa applications aren't cheap.  If I get naturalisation, then we can reassess the situation, although I am not looking forward to paying those Australian visa fees! My dream is to have 6 months here, 6 months in Australia although I know it's not feasible to change jobs every 6 months!

This was the only way it worked for us to actually live in the same country.


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## Enami123 (Jul 27, 2015)

Joppa said:


> I think it was a work visa.


Hello , please i need tour help , my husband is british and i just came on a spouse visa few months ago , nowbi m pregnant and i would like to bring my mother and my sister for to the uk for one month so they look after me , could you please tell me what they ll need to apply? Btw they both don t have a job and my husband is going to be their sponsor , i also heard that it might not give visa to my sister because she s 24 and she dosen t have a job . Thank you for your help


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

Oh man this thread exploded while I slept!

Madeleine, thank you so much for your helpful response! I'm very glad that after receiving two "coded" landings as well as such trouble at the airport, you still made it to the UK alright! I'm also glad to hear that after all of that, they waved you through on your Tier 5 YMS as well!
And thank you again Kotch and Joppa for your help as well! I'm glad to hear from you, Joppa, that the Tier 5 YMS isn't usually too heavily scrutinised either. (would make sense, it's a pretty simple little visa)

The point I'm getting from this is in some circumstances, where there seems to be a clear intent to "deceive," aka asking the border guard permission to enter for 2/3 weeks and staying for 4-6months, you may get in trouble. (Do these types of trips have to be "code 3" or can they be regular trips as well?)

You may also get in trouble if you received a "code 3" stamp in your passport, which is indicated by? Handwritten notes (your landing card code) on the stamp in your pass. Only these "coded" landings are recorded - what you say to the border officer is recorded as is a copy of your landing card.

I again didn't get any other stamp in my passport other than a regular one, and no notes or numbers or anything written on it.

I didn't stay 2 months longer or anything, I stayed two weeks, because the person I was staying with (my cousin) fell very ill shortly after I arrived and the first part of my trip was spent sitting in his apartment fetching him tea and medicine, so I didn't get to see much of London in the 1,5 weeks I had left after he recovered.

Basically I can sot of relax? It's obvious the consulate in New York had no trouble with my length of stay due to them approving my visa. So hopefully information between them and the points of entry is shared.


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## SammyJC88 (Jan 21, 2016)

My husband got a coded entry once, and basically nothing came of it after that. He's had his visa approved just fine.


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## WoahMan (Jan 24, 2016)

SammyJC88, thank you!

Did he ever enter the UK on said visa/just generally visiting after the coded landing?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Coded landing is just that. It's their way of saying they will be watching your movement to see if you follow the visa rules. If you keep to the rules, you are fine, and may even improve your standing with UKVI.


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