# thinking of retiring to hurghada



## treacly

Hi, my hubby and i are thinking of retiring to egypt..we are both 50 and would be self sufficient money wise..we are hoping that someone here could tell us about what visa's are required and how you go about getting them...really need to find out everything so we can apply..sorry for the state of this tread but am using my daughters tiny notebook...lol
cheers 
angela


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## MaidenScotland

Hello Angela welcome to the forum

Have a look http://www.expatforum.com/expats/eg...living-egypt-visa-marriage-property-cars.html 
The visa section has been copied off the Egyptian Embassy website. 

Maiden


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## MaidenScotland

I would also say have a good look through the forum at various threads, crime is rising, prices are sky high, buying a property iMO is not for the fain hearted, also bear in mind the new government we now have, the life you know in Hurghada may not exist in a few years. I have lived in Cairo for a good few years and it has changed and not for the better, it certainly is not the place I first moved to. 

If you can why not come out for an extended holiday.. don't burn your boats,


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## hurghadapat

treacly said:


> Hi, my hubby and i are thinking of retiring to egypt..we are both 50 and would be self sufficient money wise..we are hoping that someone here could tell us about what visa's are required and how you go about getting them...really need to find out everything so we can apply..sorry for the state of this tread but am using my daughters tiny notebook...lol
> cheers
> angela


Visa....you can extend your tourist visa once you have arrived there but be aware they have been a lot of problems with people being refused (ones who have lived in egypt for quite some time)
Residents Visa....as Maiden said read the sticky as you have to meet certain requirements to qualify.

Why choose egypt to retire too...it is a country that is in turmoil at the moment


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## treacly

your scaring me now...lol...we have been to hurghada numerous times and love it and feel its the place for us..its the only place that we have both fell inlove with and we have travelled quiet a lot!!!..but now i will take your advice and check out the changes taking place..really appreciate any info i can get my hands on right now..xxxxx angela


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## MaidenScotland

treacly said:


> your scaring me now...lol...we have been to hurghada numerous times and love it and feel its the place for us..its the only place that we have both fell inlove with and we have travelled quiet a lot!!!..but now i will take your advice and check out the changes taking place..really appreciate any info i can get my hands on right now..xxxxx angela




Come for a long holiday but live as if it is your home...


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> Come for a long holiday but live as if it is your home...


Good idea but it would need to be a long one....think you have to be there at least a year before the feeling of being on an extended holiday goes...then boredom sets in,heat starts to get to you and you start to see egypt in a different light.

Hurghada was built for tourists so everything is geared around that...hotels own all the best beaches and charge you to use...shops all full of tourist tat.


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## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> Good idea but it would need to be a long one....think you have to be there at least a year before the feeling of being on an extended holiday goes...then boredom sets in,heat starts to get to you and you start to see egypt in a different light.
> 
> Hurghada was built for tourists so everything is geared around that...hotels own all the best beaches and charge you to use...shops all full of tourist tat.




Strangely enough I never think of Egypt as home... Scotland will always be home yet I have only lived there for a very small portion of my life. I just feel right when I land at Glasgow airport.


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## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> Good idea but it would need to be a long one....think you have to be there at least a year before the feeling of being on an extended holiday goes...then boredom sets in,heat starts to get to you and you start to see egypt in a different light.
> 
> Hurghada was built for tourists so everything is geared around that...hotels own all the best beaches and charge you to use...shops all full of tourist tat.




the beaches might be redundant in a few years


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## canuck2010

So much doom and gloom. Why not find a nice rental and see how you like it for several months, no need for a permanent move.


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## MaidenScotland

canuck2010 said:


> So much doom and gloom. Why not find a nice rental and see how you like it for several months, no need for a permanent move.




which I have suggested


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## aykalam

treacly said:


> your scaring me now...lol...we have been to hurghada numerous times and love it and feel its the place for us..its the only place that we have both fell inlove with and we have travelled quiet a lot!!!..but now i will take your advice and check out the changes taking place..really appreciate any info i can get my hands on right now..xxxxx angela


My Irish friends (married couple) have lived in Egypt for a number of years. They are retired here after spending most of their working lives in KSA. They bought property here as this was to be their main residence. Never had any issues with visas. Last time they went to renew, they were given a 2 month tourist visa.

They are now looking to move back to Europe.


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## hurghadapat

aykalam said:


> My Irish friends (married couple) have lived in Egypt for a number of years. They are retired here after spending most of their working lives in KSA. They bought property here as this was to be their main residence. Never had any issues with visas. Last time they went to renew, they were given a 2 month tourist visa.
> 
> They are now looking to move back to Europe.


"were given a 2 month tourist visa."........there lies a problem...having to go every two months to renew is a hassle and your passport will soon fill up so another hassle having to send it to Paris to renew it before it has actually expired which is also costly.I used to get mine extended for a year at a time but now apparently not giving out yearly ones so easily.


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> "were given a 2 month tourist visa."........there lies a problem...having to go every two months to renew is a hassle and your passport will soon fill up so another hassle having to send it to Paris to renew it before it has actually expired which is also costly.I used to get mine extended for a year at a time but now apparently not giving out yearly ones so easily.


Huge hassle going to Mogamma every 2 months, and that's if they are "lucky" to get renewals. I believe Irish can still renew passports at their consulate though.


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## hurghadapat

aykalam said:


> Huge hassle going to Mogamma every 2 months, and that's if they are "lucky" to get renewals. I believe Irish can still renew passports at their consulate though.


Lol....that's truly what you call "the luck of the Irish"


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> Huge hassle going to Mogamma every 2 months, and that's if they are "lucky" to get renewals. I believe Irish can still renew passports at their consulate though.




Yep only us Brits that have to renew through Paris..


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## mamasue

canuck2010 said:


> So much doom and gloom. Why not find a nice rental and see how you like it for several months, no need for a permanent move.


 I totally agree with Canuck. 
I went to live in Hurghada many moons ago...I worked there as a scuba diving instructor.
My plan, when I went was "Either a stay two weeks, or I stay the rest of my life, or something in between"
I had a house in England to go home to if I needed to.

At first, it was like a fun vacation without a return date....sun, sea, coffee shops to sit around in....

Trust me... the feeling doesn't last!
The Egyptian national sport is 'Lets rip the foreigners off every way we can".
When you're living on Egyptian salary, and being charged tourist prices, it's frustrating to say the least.
As an older woman, I had young Egyptian guys swarming like flies around sh*t...happy to tell me they love me, and rip me off....
Hundreds of older single women go for this, I didn't.
(I know this doesn't apply to you, as you're a couple)
Everything is hassle... try getting a repairman to your place on time!

I stuck it out almost 5 years, by which time I'd grown to hate the place! the only reason I stayed that long was because of work.

Canuck is right.... rent yourselves an apartment, stay a year, and see if you feel the same.
Don't burn all your bridges.
There are much nicer places to retire to!


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## hurghadapat

mamasue said:


> I totally agree with Canuck.
> I went to live in Hurghada many moons ago...I worked there as a scuba diving instructor.
> My plan, when I went was "Either a stay two weeks, or I stay the rest of my life, or something in between"
> I had a house in England to go home to if I needed to.
> 
> At first, it was like a fun vacation without a return date....sun, sea, coffee shops to sit around in....
> 
> Trust me... the feeling doesn't last!
> The Egyptian national sport is 'Lets rip the foreigners off every way we can".
> When you're living on Egyptian salary, and being charged tourist prices, it's frustrating to say the least.
> As an older woman, I had young Egyptian guys swarming like flies around sh*t...happy to tell me they love me, and rip me off....
> Hundreds of older single women go for this, I didn't.
> (I know this doesn't apply to you, as you're a couple)
> Everything is hassle... try getting a repairman to your place on time!
> 
> I stuck it out almost 5 years, by which time I'd grown to hate the place! the only reason I stayed that long was because of work.
> 
> Canuck is right.... rent yourselves an apartment, stay a year, and see if you feel the same.
> Don't burn all your bridges.
> There are much nicer places to retire to!


All very true...and who wants a repairman...when they do decide to turn up to come at 11pm....also do remember reading somewhere that average stay for an ex-pat is approx 5yrs....and before all you lot on ex-pat packages jump in this does not include you...because with your package you live in the land of milk and honey remember


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## Whitedesert

hurghadapat said:


> All very true...and who wants a repairman...when they do decide to turn up to come at 11pm....also do remember reading somewhere that average stay for an ex-pat is approx 5yrs....and before all you lot on ex-pat packages jump in this does not include you...because with your package you live in the land of milk and honey remember


Thats true...not sure I'd like the other side of the rail-track in Cairo...


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## hurghadapat

Whitedesert said:


> Thats true...not sure I'd like the other side of the rail-track in Cairo...


Well hope you are going to give us a daily update of your new venture...will be interesting to see how it compares to egypt.


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## Gounie

Wow, I'm glad I didn't read all this before I came to Egypt to buy my home ten years ago. I'm not saying it is not true but for me popping out to view an apartment for four days and buying it was the best thing I've ever done. But then I bought in El Gouna which is a private town 24km north of Hurghada. Maybe try here if you are worried. As it is a private town no-one is allowed to hassle you. There are many expats happily retired here but it is more expensive, including the bars and restaurants. We have private security so it is very safe. I wouldn't hesitate to walk anywhere on my own in El Gouna at anytime of the night or early hours of the morning (but usually tucked up in bed).

Ok, no-one really knows what is ahead of us. The constitution hasn't been released yet although it should be soon. Are you thinking of buying in Hurghada? There have been many problems with property there not being completed, apartment blocks not being managed and maintained. Do your homework and follow advice to rent. I can't see prices rising at this time so you have nothing to lose. Everyone goes crazy to buy off plan but can they sell easily afterwards if they wish? The reality is different to the dream.

Day to day life in El Gouna is what you make it. There are endless sports to occupy yourself (although expensive), and endless beaches to enjoy. Building a home makes you feel settled. Parties are great at people's homes and everywhere you walk you bump into friends and chat. If you are divers we have a dive club for residents which attracts many non-divers just for the social side.


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> Wow, I'm glad I didn't read all this before I came to Egypt to buy my home ten years ago. I'm not saying it is not true but for me popping out to view an apartment for four days and buying it was the best thing I've ever done. But then I bought in El Gouna which is a private town 24km north of Hurghada. Maybe try here if you are worried. As it is a private town no-one is allowed to hassle you. There are many expats happily retired here but it is more expensive, including the bars and restaurants. We have private security so it is very safe. I wouldn't hesitate to walk anywhere on my own in El Gouna at anytime of the night or early hours of the morning (but usually tucked up in bed).
> 
> Ok, no-one really knows what is ahead of us. The constitution hasn't been released yet although it should be soon. Are you thinking of buying in Hurghada? There have been many problems with property there not being completed, apartment blocks not being managed and maintained. Do your homework and follow advice to rent. I can't see prices rising at this time so you have nothing to lose. Everyone goes crazy to buy off plan but can they sell easily afterwards if they wish? The reality is different to the dream.
> 
> Day to day life in El Gouna is what you make it. There are endless sports to occupy yourself (although expensive), and endless beaches to enjoy. Building a home makes you feel settled. Parties are great at people's homes and everywhere you walk you bump into friends and chat. If you are divers we have a dive club for residents which attracts many non-divers just for the social side.




Well as you have said... El Gouna is a private town... it's not the way the majority of us live. Ten years ago in fact 2 years ago I would have happily walked home at midnight,now I do not go to our baladi market during the day.. it simply isn't safe..bag snatching is rife and of course the sexual harassment is is relentless.


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## hurghadapat

Gounie said:


> Wow, I'm glad I didn't read all this before I came to Egypt to buy my home ten years ago. I'm not saying it is not true but for me popping out to view an apartment for four days and buying it was the best thing I've ever done. But then I bought in El Gouna which is a private town 24km north of Hurghada. Maybe try here if you are worried. As it is a private town no-one is allowed to hassle you. There are many expats happily retired here but it is more expensive, including the bars and restaurants. We have private security so it is very safe. I wouldn't hesitate to walk anywhere on my own in El Gouna at anytime of the night or early hours of the morning (but usually tucked up in bed).
> 
> Ok, no-one really knows what is ahead of us. The constitution hasn't been released yet although it should be soon. Are you thinking of buying in Hurghada? There have been many problems with property there not being completed, apartment blocks not being managed and maintained. Do your homework and follow advice to rent. I can't see prices rising at this time so you have nothing to lose. Everyone goes crazy to buy off plan but can they sell easily afterwards if they wish? The reality is different to the dream
> 
> Day to day life in El Gouna is what you make it. There are endless sports to occupy yourself (although expensive), and endless beaches to enjoy. Building a home makes you feel settled. Parties are great at people's homes and everywhere you walk you bump into friends and chat. If you are divers we have a dive club for residents which attracts many non-divers just for the social side.



Have to agree with you about El Gouna being very nice,very clean and safe as no one gets in or out without being checked but as you say it is expensive and to be honest you could be living anywhere in the world as it is nothing like the real egypt.I often used to go just for the day and always took any visitors i had staying just to have a look round....but for me that was enough...but what pleases one doesn't always please the other


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## Whitedesert

hurghadapat said:


> Well hope you are going to give us a daily update of your new venture...will be interesting to see how it compares to egypt.


 will do. spend about 4 weeks there already setting up things. Interesting people the average Qatari...300,000 of them served by 1,4 million expats...they pay no tax, all utilities are free, free medical, fee lots of other things...the average car either a huge V8 SUV of some sorts (they love the really big American jobs), or Bently/Rolls Royce, or Ferrari/Maserati etc. I have never seen such a big showroom for 1 mil plus sports cars.They only work in the public sector and banks mostly, and kind of keep to themselves. Very different world to Cairo for sure!


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## hurghadapat

Whitedesert said:


> will do. spend about 4 weeks there already setting up things. Interesting people the average Qatari...300,000 of them served by 1,4 million expats...they pay no tax, all utilities are free, free medical, fee lots of other things...the average car either a huge V8 SUV of some sorts (they love the really big American jobs), or Bently/Rolls Royce, or Ferrari/Maserati etc. I have never seen such a big showroom for 1 mil plus sports cars.They only work in the public sector and banks mostly, and kind of keep to themselves. Very different world to Cairo for sure!


Lol...sounds great...so what car then...after the Rolls of course...sounds like a Boys and their toys heaven!!


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## Whitedesert

hurghadapat said:


> Lol...sounds great...so what car then...after the Rolls of course...sounds like a Boys and their toys heaven!!


Ahh yes, this is boys toy heaven. You can get a 1-year old 7-series for about QAR70,000....already rubbing my hands together in anticipation.


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## Helen Ellis

To repeat what everyone else has said I would rent for a year, try living in a few different places around town, get to know the local resident ex-pats, find out what you can do to keep occupied and meet people. 
Living in the right place can make such a difference. I have just moved to the outskirts of town and I love it. peaceful, no car horns, own beach and pool, wonderful for me but most people would think you need a car out here. 
If you want help when you get here let me know, if I know the answer I will tell you, from bus routes and taxi fares with honest drivers to good places to eat and residents prices.. I don't work so am free most of the time.

However, if I could afford it I would be travelling the world, maybe spending a year or more in each country.


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## Peter Mitry

*Retiring to Hurghada*



Helen Ellis said:


> To repeat what everyone else has said I would rent for a year, try living in a few different places around town, get to know the local resident ex-pats, find out what you can do to keep occupied and meet people.
> Living in the right place can make such a difference. I have just moved to the outskirts of town and I love it. peaceful, no car horns, own beach and pool, wonderful for me but most people would think you need a car out here.
> If you want help when you get here let me know, if I know the answer I will tell you, from bus routes and taxi fares with honest drivers to good places to eat and residents prices.. I don't work so am free most of the time.
> 
> However, if I could afford it I would be travelling the world, maybe spending a year or more in each country.


I am really shocked by the negativity of the Moderators on this forum; I have no experience of living in Cairo but I have lived in Egypt for almost five years (in Hurghada) and from Maiden Scotland's comments I do not recognise Hurghada as the same country! We have lived here throughout the revolution and we have experience none of the problems she describes.

Helen Ellis, like myself, has lived here for many years and will I am sure agree that you can retire happily to Hurghada if you choose the right area to live in. We are in El Kawser and this is a perfectly secure place to live; it is clean, close to beaches, supermarkets, restaurants and hospitals and just 10 minutes from the airport.

Yes, prices have risen over time but phone calls are some of the cheapest in the world and petrol is still 20p per litre!

It's true that prices in the supermarkets are rising but these are items subject to world markets and it is still a cheap place to live.

There have been some bad examples of residential blocks being sold 'off plan' and not completed but there are equally several well documented complexes that are completed, have sound documents and are 100% legal. Use an International agent to advise you; many Egyptians may have a different view to what is legally acceptable than Europeans will be used to.

We would be happy to give advice if required.


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## MaidenScotland

Peter Mitry said:


> I am really shocked by the negativity of the Moderators on this forum; I have no experience of living in Cairo but I have lived in Egypt for almost five years (in Hurghada) and from Maiden Scotland's comments I do not recognise Hurghada as the same country! We have lived here throughout the revolution and we have experience none of the problems she describes.
> 
> Helen Ellis, like myself, has lived here for many years and will I am sure agree that you can retire happily to Hurghada if you choose the right area to live in. We are in El Kawser and this is a perfectly secure place to live; it is clean, close to beaches, supermarkets, restaurants and hospitals and just 10 minutes from the airport.
> 
> Yes, prices have risen over time but phone calls are some of the cheapest in the world and petrol is still 20p per litre!
> 
> It's true that prices in the supermarkets are rising but these are items subject to world markets and it is still a cheap place to live.
> 
> There have been some bad examples of residential blocks being sold 'off plan' and not completed but there are equally several well documented complexes that are completed, have sound documents and are 100% legal. Use an International agent to advise you; many Egyptians may have a different view to what is legally acceptable than Europeans will be used to.
> 
> We would be happy to give advice if required.





Moderators are allowed a point of view... I have lived in Egypt far longer than 5 years and seen many many changes on the way of life here and not all for the good this past 18 months

As an estate agent I would guess you don't point out the negative

Petrol at 20p a litre is only a concern if you have a car.



I did suggest the poster didn't burn her boats and come out for a long holiday.. nothing negative about that in fact quite a sensible idea I would have thought.


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## mamasue

Peter.....the moderators, myself, and many others on this forum have also lived in Egypt for many years.
We also speak from experience.
I never vought a property, because I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay forever, and didn't want to be stuck with something I couldn't sell.
I have a Russian friend in Hurghada, who bought 2 apartments in a block, one to live in and one for rental income...
She's been trying to sell them for years, she wants to leave hurghada, she's stuck now.
At the time she bought them, she was seeing herself living there forever.
most people that move to Egypt with the intention of staying forever... really don't!
As Pat said previously, 5 years seems to be the average tolerance limit.

The healthcare.... yeah... don't start me off on that....One of my friends (Pat probably knows who I'm talking about) had a baby die at birth in Egypt. for no good reason....
Another good friend was totally misdiagnosed (At supposedly one of Egypt's best hospitals) and is now fighting for his life back in the UK.

Petrol is cheap....used cars are ridiculously expensive...I mean RIDICULOUSLY expensive.

IMHO, nobody's 'being negative'......just being realistic!!!


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## Peter Mitry

*Moving to Egypt*



mamasue said:


> Peter.....the moderators, myself, and many others on this forum have also lived in Egypt for many years.
> We also speak from experience.
> I never vought a property, because I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay forever, and didn't want to be stuck with something I couldn't sell.
> I have a Russian friend in Hurghada, who bought 2 apartments in a block, one to live in and one for rental income...
> She's been trying to sell them for years, she wants to leave hurghada, she's stuck now.
> At the time she bought them, she was seeing herself living there forever.
> most people that move to Egypt with the intention of staying forever... really don't!
> As Pat said previously, 5 years seems to be the average tolerance limit.
> 
> The healthcare.... yeah... don't start me off on that....One of my friends (Pat probably knows who I'm talking about) had a baby die at birth in Egypt. for no good reason....
> Another good friend was totally misdiagnosed (At supposedly one of Egypt's best hospitals) and is now fighting for his life back in the UK.
> 
> Petrol is cheap....used cars are ridiculously expensive...I mean RIDICULOUSLY expensive.
> 
> IMHO, nobody's 'being negative'......just being realistic!!!


It's all a question of perception mamasue, my wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in March at El Gouna Hospital, sent to Cairo for a biopsy and operated on the following day. Thank God it was cured completely and I just wonder if she would have got the same treatment in the UK. Yes there are training issues for support staff and yes there are huge problems with untrained and uneducated people in many walks of Egyptian life and I don't say Egypt is for everyone; I just feel it is a question of balance. There are more people who love Hurghada and would never go back as there are like yourself & the moderators who see everything as bad. You cannot take a country which has had 60 years of dictatorship and repression and expect that a new government will put everything right over night; it was never going to be that easy.

But equally it is unfair to give a totally negative view when there are at least as many people with positive experiences as there are with the negative ones which you seem to have.


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## MaidenScotland

Peter Mitry said:


> It's all a question of perception mamasue, my wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in March at El Gouna Hospital, sent to Cairo for a biopsy and operated on the following day. Thank God it was cured completely and I just wonder if she would have got the same treatment in the UK. Yes there are training issues for support staff and yes there are huge problems with untrained and uneducated people in many walks of Egyptian life and I don't say Egypt is for everyone; I just feel it is a question of balance. There are more people who love Hurghada and would never go back as there are like yourself & the moderators who see everything as bad. You cannot take a country which has had 60 years of dictatorship and repression and expect that a new government will put everything right over night; it was never going to be that easy.
> 
> But equally it is unfair to give a totally negative view when there are at least as many people with positive experiences as there are with the negative ones which you seem to have.




You are quite welcome to post your positive views on the forum...


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## hurghadapat

Peter Mitry said:


> It's all a question of perception mamasue, my wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in March at El Gouna Hospital, sent to Cairo for a biopsy and operated on the following day. Thank God it was cured completely and I just wonder if she would have got the same treatment in the UK. Yes there are training issues for support staff and yes there are huge problems with untrained and uneducated people in many walks of Egyptian life and I don't say Egypt is for everyone; I just feel it is a question of balance. There are more people who love Hurghada and would never go back as there are like yourself & the moderators who see everything as bad. You cannot take a country which has had 60 years of dictatorship and repression and expect that a new government will put everything right over night; it was never going to be that easy.
> 
> But equally it is unfair to give a totally negative view when there are at least as many people with positive experiences as there are with the negative ones which you seem to have.


Of course your wife would have got the same treatment in the UK if she was going as a private patient and paying for her treatment which she will have had to do in Egypt.....as for it being unfair to give negative views surely it is better to point out the less attractive side of Egypt when people are asking for advice rather than let them think they are coming to the land of milk and honey....but of course you will want people to read only about positive things saying as you are in the property business.


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## MaidenScotland

I have been happy with any operations I have had here.. no complaints about the procedure but it wasn't good enough for Mubarak so maybe I just got lucky


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## jojo2005

I have only been living over here for the last 2 years (Hurghada) and was a frequent flier before that having bought a holiday home. Redundancy had me deciding to move out here and leave property back in the UK rented out to provide an income........I don't regret buying my flat but would definately recommend renting initially. I have made some really good friends of all nationalities and equally met some very dodgy characters of all nationalities. I don't live in the best of areas but am a short walk from a couple of beaches and the sea. I walk home alone at night (admittedly not far) and have no fear. Something I would not have done in my home town in England. Like other posters have mentioned if you have any questions and I can help I would be happy to do so


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## Peter Mitry

*retiring to Hurghada*



hurghadapat said:


> Of course your wife would have got the same treatment in the UK if she was going as a private patient and paying for her treatment which she will have had to do in Egypt.....as for it being unfair to give negative views surely it is better to point out the less attractive side of Egypt when people are asking for advice rather than let them think they are coming to the land of milk and honey....but of course you will want people to read only about positive things saying as you are in the property business.


I don't think that I mentioned being in the property business Pat so as a Moderator you should respect that. All I am saying is that there are always two sides to every story and for every negative view there is a positive one. Surely Moderators are supposed to have a balanced view? Otherwise the forum just becomes a platform to air your own views.


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## Sharm11

Having read a lot on the forum it does seem to be biased against living in Egypt generally which is a shame. I don't live there myself but I know quite a few people who do and some love it, others hate it and eturn to their native country. Lots of people here in UK hate living here. Horses for courses I guess. (Or Camels)


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## Lanason

Sharm11 said:


> Having read a lot on the forum it does seem to be biased against living in Egypt generally which is a shame. I don't live there myself but I know quite a few people who do and some love it, others hate it and eturn to their native country. Lots of people here in UK hate living here. Horses for courses I guess. (Or Camels)


I'm not biased against living in Egypt - I actually prefer it.

but there are some that think coming here will be a "holiday" - they should know the good and bad so as to make an informed decision.

Generally if you haven't got an "expat" package it is gunna be tough. . .


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## Peter Mitry

Sharm11 said:


> Having read a lot on the forum it does seem to be biased against living in Egypt generally which is a shame. I don't live there myself but I know quite a few people who do and some love it, others hate it and eturn to their native country. Lots of people here in UK hate living here. Horses for courses I guess. (Or Camels)


Well said Sharm11! There will be plenty of others who agree with you.


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## Lanason

Peter Mitry said:


> I don't think that I mentioned being in the property business Pat so as a Moderator you should respect that. All I am saying is that there are always two sides to every story and for every negative view there is a positive one. Surely Moderators are supposed to have a balanced view? Otherwise the forum just becomes a platform to air your own views.


Moderators are to make sure the forum rules are applied.

They can have what ever views they like. They do not work for the forum (as far as I know)

Maiden or Pat will I'm sure put me right if I am mistaken :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:


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## Lanason

Peter Mitry said:


> I don't think that I mentioned being in the property business Pat so as a Moderator you should respect that. All I am saying is that there are always two sides to every story and for every negative view there is a positive one. Surely Moderators are supposed to have a balanced view? Otherwise the forum just becomes a platform to air your own views.


eeer actually I think you did 

4th September 2011, 02:21 PM
Replies: 35
thinking of buying a studio in Hurghada
Views: 1,911
Posted By Peter Mitry
Buying property in Hurghada

Hi Scott, I am a Real Estate agent and have been living in Hurghada for four years. When deciding where to live much depends on how serious your condition is and how it may develop in the future....


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## MaidenScotland

Sharm11 said:


> Having read a lot on the forum it does seem to be biased against living in Egypt generally which is a shame. I don't live there myself but I know quite a few people who do and some love it, others hate it and eturn to their native country. Lots of people here in UK hate living here. Horses for courses I guess. (Or Camels)




Welcome to the forum





Lanson nearly always posts positive views on Egypt... but why do others not? simply because they do not see/experience what he sees. 

There is nothing to stop anyone coming onto the forum and praising living here... 

Anyone immigrating here has usually visited several times on holiday.. they know the beaches are great, the sun always shines, diving is on your doorstep.. Sold.. so no need to ask questions unless of course you are realistic and know that living here rather than being on holiday is two completely different scenarios .


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## Lanason

MaidenScotland said:


> Welcome to the forum
> 
> Lanson nearly always posts positive views on Egypt... but why do others not? simply because they do not see/experience what he sees.
> 
> There is nothing to stop anyone coming onto the forum and praising living here...
> 
> Anyone immigrating here has usually visited several times on holiday.. they know the beaches are great, the sun always shines, diving is on your doorstep.. Sold.. so no need to ask questions unless of course you are realistic and know that living here rather than being on holiday is two completely different scenarios .


Apart from the [email protected]@dy driving, crossing the road without looking, pushing in in shops, not holding doors open, taking an age to do anything .......

Gota just  it


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## mamasue

Peter Mitry said:


> It's all a question of perception mamasue, my wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in March at El Gouna Hospital, sent to Cairo for a biopsy and operated on the following day.
> 
> But equally it is unfair to give a totally negative view when there are at least as many people with positive experiences as there are with the negative ones which you seem to have.


Peter I was diagnosed with breast cancer in the UK in 1997.
I found a lump 7am on a friday.... was at my GP at 10am....
Was referred to the Royal Marsden,the best cancer hospital in the UK, and had an appointment with the consultant 3 days later.
Tt was a stage 2 cancer, and had spread to my lymph glands.
I had surgery, radiotherapy, and chemo for 8 months... all free, on the NHS.

I wonder what would have happened in Egypt !!

Also, I'm not being negative to put people off...I'm just speaking of my and my friends' experiences, that's all I've got.


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## txlstewart

Peter--you me to ones it in a previous post quite awhile ago....

Quit being negative towards the mods--please

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Peter Mitry

My apologies to the Moderators if my comments seem a bit harsh. As the founding member of Property Community forum, Egypt section, and the original Moderator you can be sure I know how that feels. 

However, this is a forum for people either living or considering living in Egypt and I do think that it's important to give a balanced view. There is a vast difference between living in Cairo and life in Hurghada, Sharm or Marsa Alam and also peoples lifestyles vary immensely.

It's like comparing people living in inner cities to those living in the country or by the seaside.

If you are young and spend a lot of time on the streets or out late at night you will see a completely different Egypt to the one that I see. But that is not my lifestyle and contributors to this forum will come from many different backgrounds and will be here for many different reasons.

All I am saying is that Moderators should acknowledge this and accept that there will always be different views.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Peter Mitry said:


> My apologies to the Moderators if my comments seem a bit harsh. As the founding member of Property Community forum, Egypt section, and the original Moderator you can be sure I know how that feels.
> 
> However, this is a forum for people either living or considering living in Egypt and I do think that it's important to give a balanced view. There is a vast difference between living in Cairo and life in Hurghada, Sharm or Marsa Alam and also peoples lifestyles vary immensely.
> 
> It's like comparing people living in inner cities to those living in the country or by the seaside.
> 
> If you are young and spend a lot of time on the streets or out late at night you will see a completely different Egypt to the one that I see. But that is not my lifestyle and contributors to this forum will come from many different backgrounds and will be here for many different reasons.
> 
> All I am saying is that Moderators should acknowledge this and accept that there will always be different views.




Of course there will always be different views... who has ever said there isn't? 




I am not young, I don't spend my days out on the streets or out late at night.. I live in a very upmarket building... I have a car and driver, expat package an embassy covering my back but I know that the majority don't live like this.. and endless sun doesn't make it paradise..


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## Julianne

*hope this is a positive for you*

Hiya,

On the internet look up the Egyptian Consulate in London - you can send your passport to them with a completed application form, a copy of your passport and a couple of passport pictures - for £18 they will give you a multi entry visa valid for a 6 month period allowing 90 days in Egypt maximum, £15 gets you a single use visa valid for the same period allowing 60 days in Egypt maximum.
You have to send a postal order payment with your package which will cost £1.88 (I think) from the post office and send a self addressed stamped envelope inside with your documents - use special delivery which is just over £5 each way and you'll get your visa within a few days - no need to queue in Hurghada. 
This information is current! 
That will at least get you in for a while and give you chance to put your claim in at the passport office in Hurghada and try your luck at getting the one year extended visa.
Hope this helps. Good luck in your retirement 
Oh the consulate in London are unable to advise on what happens in the passport offices for visa requests made inside Egypt


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## Gounie

treacly said:


> your scaring me now...lol...


They haven't logged in again since! (25th September 1.01pm)


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## carolleb

hi, Im going to move to hurghada in march next year, came on here to see about requirements to live there, and all I saw was doom and gloom so depressing. England is more doom and gloom than hurghada, its a lovely place and Im coming out just need to find what I have to do to stay there. Your post was more positive.


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## MaidenScotland

carolleb said:


> hi, Im going to move to hurghada in march next year, came on here to see about requirements to live there, and all I saw was doom and gloom so depressing. England is more doom and gloom than hurghada, its a lovely place and Im coming out just need to find what I have to do to stay there. Your post was more positive.




Best of luck... what made you change your mind about Luxor?


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## carolleb

I have been to Hurghada and loved it there, why i didnt think of it in the first place I do not know, all I do know is just had enough here. Just been onto the egyptian embassy site to look at the visa requirements, I thought a multi entry visa which is for 90 days would be the best way to go initially. thank you for replying. appreciated


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## carolleb

any help or advice would be appreciated too.


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## Peter Mitry

*Moving to Hurghada*



carolleb said:


> hi, Im going to move to hurghada in march next year, came on here to see about requirements to live there, and all I saw was doom and gloom so depressing. England is more doom and gloom than hurghada, its a lovely place and Im coming out just need to find what I have to do to stay there. Your post was more positive.


Good for you carolleb! There are many expats living in Hurghada who are very happy here. I have spent many Hours in the Visa office queuing to get Visa's for my clients, until I realised that any good lawyer worth his salt can get it done in a couple of hours or less. Of course there are negatives; robbing taxi drivers who try to rip you offer and the never ending stream of souvenir merchants in the street, but once you are here you learn how to deal with them. The big issues at the moment are fuel shortages and the lack of effective policing but these issues will be dealt with; it's all part of the 'growing pains' in any new government. Wish you all the best! We should meet up for a coffee when you are in Hurghada.


----------



## carolleb

Peter Mitry said:


> Good for you carolleb! There are many expats living in Hurghada who are very happy here. I have spent many Hours in the Visa office queuing to get Visa's for my clients, until I realised that any good lawyer worth his salt can get it done in a couple of hours or less. Of course there are negatives; robbing taxi drivers who try to rip you offer and the never ending stream of souvenir merchants in the street, but once you are here you learn how to deal with them. The big issues at the moment are fuel shortages and the lack of effective policing but these issues will be dealt with; it's all part of the 'growing pains' in any new government. Wish you all the best! We should meet up for a coffee when you are in Hurghada.


seeing so many on here with doom and gloom really upset me, my stomach is in knots over it, I want to do this but after reading what some said, now Im in turmoil over it. I would meet up for coffee, would like that and would like to make some friends there. thank u so much for replying


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## carolleb

Actually peter, your email did make me feel better, is a shame that some are not happy there isnt it.


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## mamasue

Carolleb....the thing most people don't realize is that living in a country is totally different to a holiday there.
Wall-to wall sun is lovely....but lack of infrastructure isn't really noticed until you need to achieve something non-touristy.
Good luck!


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## GM1

In summer even the sun can be too much!


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## Gounie

Peter Mitry said:


> Of course there are negatives; robbing taxi drivers who try to rip you offer and the never ending stream of souvenir merchants in the street, but once you are here you learn how to deal with them.


Or choose El Gouna which is 24km north of Hurghada. More expensive but totally safe, hassle free and a wonderful ex-pat community. The newest addition to the private town is a Campus for the Berlin Technishe Universitat. Mr Sawiris wanted to bring the highest level of education to Egypt. They just had the opening ceremony which was covered on Egyptian TV. It took six years from him meeting someone by chance from the Berlin Campus at Seventh Star Cafe in Abu Tig Marina to building and opening the state of the art University. The El Gouna Campus shows the Live HD Metropolitan Opera which you can buy tickets for at the Information Centre in Tamr Henna Square, El Gouna. They are Euro12 each. I have been to three operas now. The first two I enjoyed but the last one was the Tempest and I didn't get it at all! The next will be on December 1st - La Clemeza di Tito. It is great for us to have a cultural event like this on the Red Sea Coast.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150838898478255.471013.665383254&type=1&l=5e547e8433

Anyhow, just some positive comments from a very happy full time resident for over 8 years.


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## MaidenScotland

carolleb said:


> Actually peter, your email did make me feel better, is a shame that some are not happy there isnt it.




Yes it is a shame that some are not happy/or warn you about living in Egypt... but they are warning you for a reason the reason is found through the experience of being here.. many live here because they are married to Egyptians and this is their home, others like myself are here on a work contract, some may not even afford to go back to their homeland. You have heard the saying... been there done that got the teeshirt. 

Have a good look through the forum and what is going on in the country, do not buy property.. rent.. have a bolt hole to run to, remember this time last year you were moving to Luxor and changed your mind.. 

Good luck on whatever you decide to do,


----------



## carolleb

*thank u*



MaidenScotland said:


> Yes it is a shame that some are not happy/or warn you about living in Egypt... but they are warning you for a reason the reason is found through the experience of being here.. many live here because they are married to Egyptians and this is their home, others like myself are here on a work contract, some may not even afford to go back to their homeland. You have heard the saying... been there done that got the teeshirt.
> 
> Have a good look through the forum and what is going on in the country, do not buy property.. rent.. have a bolt hole to run to, remember this time last year you were moving to Luxor and changed your mind..
> 
> Good luck on whatever you decide to do,


I appreciate what you say very much, luxor not really for me, too big, too many people a bit scarey for me to live there I think, Hurghada different, not saying it will be easy but what have I got to lose, will rent of course, buying not an option for me. I just need to change my life and who can do that but me. a lot of things happen dont they and I have to do something myself. carolle


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## hurghadapat

carolleb said:


> I appreciate what you say very much, luxor not really for me, too big, too many people a bit scarey for me to live there I think, Hurghada different, not saying it will be easy but what have I got to lose, will rent of course, buying not an option for me. I just need to change my life and who can do that but me. a lot of things happen dont they and I have to do something myself. carolle


What makes you think that Luxor is bigger than Hurghada :confused2:Hurghada is huge now and getting bigger all the time


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## mamasue

Carolleb.....it's good that you're not buying property... that really does close all the doors behind you....An escape plan is always needed!
When I moved tp Hurghada, my plan was "Maybe I'll stay the rest of my life...maybe I'll come home next week...or something in between.
I was moving there to work as a scuba diving instructor, which I did for 5 years.
The first year or 2 was great..I loved my new life.
The second couple of years was ok....working for and dealing with Egyptians was just ok... and it was warmer than England...
The last few months was"It's really not worth the hassle...I'm done"
I moved to the Emirates for a short time...and was amazed at how different Arab countries can be.....The people were much more respectful, much friendlier... and nobody trying to rip me off!!
I kept my house in England, so I'd always have somewhere to go, so I didn't feel trapped.

I know a family in England (Pat will back me up, she knows them well too) that, after 2 weeks holiday in Hurghada, decided they loved it and wanted to live there...
They sold their UK house, packed up kids, dogs and everything, and moved to Hurghada.
Within a year they got ripped off of everything they owned, even the private school the children were supposed to attend ripped them off and the kids couldn't go to school after paying a year's fees in advance...
The story had a very bad ending, and they returned to England with nothing...I mean NOTHING.

My husband also knew many women (different circumstances, I know) who moved to Egypt with money, then didn't even have the fare to return home...

I've got 2 friends here in the US, one a good friend and another friend I knew in Cairo, who's now in Florida who also moved to Egypt 'for life' and they're both 'back home'

My point is.... go for it... try it....but just make sure you don't close all doors behind you...Always have an escape plan.

Nobody's being a 'Negative Nellie' without reason or experience to back the facts up....
Just trying to give you a more realistic view of life in a tourist resort!


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## carolleb

*understand this thanks*



mamasue said:


> Carolleb.....it's good that you're not buying property... that really does close all the doors behind you....An escape plan is always needed!
> When I moved tp Hurghada, my plan was "Maybe I'll stay the rest of my life...maybe I'll come home next week...or something in between.
> I was moving there to work as a scuba diving instructor, which I did for 5 years.
> The first year or 2 was great..I loved my new life.
> The second couple of years was ok....working for and dealing with Egyptians was just ok... and it was warmer than England...
> The last few months was"It's really not worth the hassle...I'm done"
> I moved to the Emirates for a short time...and was amazed at how different Arab countries can be.....The people were much more respectful, much friendlier... and nobody trying to rip me off!!
> I kept my house in England, so I'd always have somewhere to go, so I didn't feel trapped.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your kind reply, I dont live in cuckoo land and aware of some of these problems but let me tell you any egyptian that tries to rip me off will pay lol, no way will I hand over one penny to any egyptian no matter what. Ive lived in turkey and Im aware of these things. the key is to not feel sorry for them and I dont, I have to survive and my money is my money lol. do you not live there now did I miss that bit lol. carolle. Hope to meet and make new friends there.
> I know a family in England (Pat will back me up, she knows them well too) that, after 2 weeks holiday in Hurghada, decided they loved it and wanted to live there...
> They sold their UK house, packed up kids, dogs and everything, and moved to Hurghada.
> Within a year they got ripped off of everything they owned, even the private school the children were supposed to attend ripped them off and the kids couldn't go to school after paying a year's fees in advance...
> The story had a very bad ending, and they returned to England with nothing...I mean NOTHING.
> 
> My husband also knew many women (different circumstances, I know) who moved to Egypt with money, then didn't even have the fare to return home...
> 
> I've got 2 friends here in the US, one a good friend and another friend I knew in Cairo, who's now in Florida who also moved to Egypt 'for life' and they're both 'back home'
> 
> My point is.... go for it... try it....but just make sure you don't close all doors behind you...Always have an escape plan.
> 
> Nobody's being a 'Negative Nellie' without reason or experience to back the facts up....
> Just trying to give you a more realistic view of life in a tourist resort!


Thank you so much all will be taken on board but no way is anyone going to rip me off lol, if they think they can they better be good at it. thanks, all taken on board. carolle


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## MaidenScotland

carolleb said:


> Thank you so much all will be taken on board but no way is anyone going to rip me off lol, if they think they can they better be good at it. thanks, all taken on board. carolle


 


ohh carolle they will be good at it they are the best...crickey I still get ripped off and I am quite savvy living here,


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## carolleb

*ripped off*

lol maybe you better give me some lessons then but let me tell you I dont get fooled easy, my money stays my money lol, they can try, do you live out there now by the way, would be lovely to make new friends if you can spare the time at some point to meet when Im there. thanks carolle:focus:


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## MaidenScotland

carolleb said:


> lol maybe you better give me some lessons then but let me tell you I dont get fooled easy, my money stays my money lol, they can try, do you live out there now by the way, would be lovely to make new friends if you can spare the time at some point to meet when Im there. thanks carolle:focus:





lol, every time I think I will never be ripped off again.. I do.  but I do fight back and shout and scream but it still costs me money lol

I live in Cairo too far away for coffee,

maiden


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## carolleb

*cairo*

Oh what a shame, nevermind if I ever get to cairo will send u a message. take care always.


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## expatagogo

carolleb said:


> Thank you so much all will be taken on board but no way is anyone going to rip me off lol, if they think they can they better be good at it. thanks, all taken on board. carolle


Oh, they're good at it.

They'll look you in the eye, have a smile on their face and a "walahee" (swear to God) on their lips ... meanwhile, one hand is in your wallet and the other on your jewelry.

It's a national pastime.


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## carolleb

expatagogo said:


> Oh, they're good at it.
> 
> They'll look you in the eye, have a smile on their face and a "walahee" (swear to God) on their lips ... meanwhile, one hand is in your wallet and the other on your jewelry.
> 
> It's a national pastime.


and I will watch their hands and if they even try to put their hands anywhere they shouldnt, they will part with their birthright let me tell you. I take no prisoners lol


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## txlstewart

How naive (or idiotic) that you think you are better at avoiding being ripped off than those savvy people who have lived here for years. Good luck. I'm sure the locals will appreciate the influx of cash....


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## MaidenScotland

carolleb said:


> lol maybe you better give me some lessons then but let me tell you I dont get fooled easy, my money stays my money lol, they can try, do you live out there now by the way, would be lovely to make new friends if you can spare the time at some point to meet when Im there. thanks carolle:focus:




I think must of us came here under that illusion


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## carolleb

*thanks*



txlstewart said:


> How naive (or idiotic) that you think you are better at avoiding being ripped off than those savvy people who have lived here for years. Good luck. I'm sure the locals will appreciate the influx of cash....


Im sure I would have problems and I didnt mean I would be any different to the rest of you in getting ripped off either, Im sure they will try and most prob do it but I mean I will try hard not to let it happen. I know people living there are more used to the ways than me and certainly I was not trying to be clever. Thank you for you kind words.


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## MaidenScotland

carolleb said:


> Im sure I would have problems and I didnt mean I would be any different to the rest of you in getting ripped off either, Im sure they will try and most prob do it but I mean I will try hard not to let it happen. I know people living there are more used to the ways than me and certainly I was not trying to be clever. Thank you for you kind words.




Carolle it sounds as if you are going out there alone and if so my advice would be to invent a husband... you can say he is travelling for work


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## carolleb

*thanks*

Yes I am going out alone, and I dont think that post from that other person was very nice, Im not trying to be clever with anyone here, I know what goes on, just meant that I would try hard, did that person have to be so rude to me. For heavens sake is that this forum is about just being sarcastic and clever I didnt think so before. 

will remember what you said about a husband thank u at least you are more positive to me.


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## Gounie

MaidenScotland said:


> Carolle it sounds as if you are going out there alone and if so my advice would be to invent a husband... you can say he is travelling for work


Good advice but I am quite proud of the fact I have never had a husband and got where I am today on my own and I always tell them that I don't have one and I don't want one and that I prefer my two cats  The first question is always "Where is your husband?" and with talks to change the law for girls to marry at 9 years old thank goodness we have a choice in Europe.

It's just impossible to avoid being ripped off here. You have to spend money everyday to live whether it's buying vegetables, taxis, workmen. We are always regarded as tourists with lots of money.


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## CatMandoo

Good Luck and best wishes on your move carolleb. 

Just remember....for all the "naysaying" going on here, is the "western world" all that better? One only needs a day in front of a news channel to see that for all it's supposed modernity, civility, etc etc, the entire world is going to hell fast.

People are being ripped off, one way or another, daily, no matter where they live.


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> Good Luck and best wishes on your move carolleb.
> 
> Just remember....for all the "naysaying" going on here, is the "western world" all that better? One only needs a day in front of a news channel to see that for all it's supposed modernity, civility, etc etc, the entire world is going to hell fast.
> 
> People are being ripped off, one way or another, daily, no matter where they live.




Of course it is not better but at least they don't act all pious whilst they are doing it,and in the west there are authorities you can go to if you feel you have been ripped off..


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## shaks

We just bought a place in Sokhna for our retirement . DH is Egyptian but hates Cairo. We live in the UAE and are planning to retire in Sokhna in a few years. We are renting our Cairo flat and planning to spend our holidays in our new chalet .... Quite excited about it !


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## mamasue

Carolle I think the first thing you need to realize is that, as you're a woman alone, the Egyptian men, both young and old, will be round you like flies round sh*t!!
They don't care about age... in fact, if you're older, you're more of a prime target. I heard the words "Age is just a number" ad nauseum!!

They assume that as you're alone. you're desperate for a 'good husband'...and telling them your husband is around doesn't work...For some delusional and arrogant reason, they assume they're 'better' than your husband.

I learnt very early on in Arabic, if I was asked about my 'husband'..No I don't have one... and no, I definitely don't want one!
I told them I was happy living with my 25 year old weightlifter son and our rotweiler!!

Seriously... you just have to sit alone in a coffee shop for 5 minutes, waiting to meet a friend, and you'll hear the words "Hello...where from"??

The problem is, so many women (mainly, but not only Russian) DO go there to find a man!

As I may have said before.....both my husband and I (We met in Egypt...we both lived in different parts before we met) saw countless women from England, Ireland, USA...arriving with everything....and leaving with nothing....or not even having the plane fare to leave!

Even if you're not "rich"... you're probably rich by their standard...in Hurghada, men often work in bazaars , cafes etc, just on a commission basis, earning a couple of dollars a day if they're lucky...often with a wife and a couple of kids in a remote village somewhere that they're trying to support.
A woman I worked with was befriended by a very nice and respectable Egyptian hijaabi (veiled) lady, met her for coffee etc a few times, and was introduced to this lady's brother...My colleague liked the brother, started dating him...He wanted to 'marry' her immediately...within days, they had an ORFI marriage (Worthless...google it)..she bought him an internet café (For our future, habibi!)...
Turned out the "sister" was really "wifey"....and my friend was scammed from the first hello!!!
She went back to Germany, broken hearted and broke....

Carolle.... nobody's trying to put you off, or put you down....Just that we've all seen it....everybody thinks they're "too smart for that'.....We're just trying to give you a reality check.
Go ahead.... have fun... just remember... the people on this forum have no ulterior motives for warning you of this stuff....
Whereas, Egyptian men are just 'walking ulterior motives'!!!

Are you planning on working in Hurghada??


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## carolleb

mamasue said:


> Carolle I think the first thing you need to realize is that, as you're a woman alone, the Egyptian men, both young and old, will be round you like flies round sh*t!!
> They don't care about age... in fact, if you're older, you're more of a prime target. I heard the words "Age is just a number" ad nauseum!!
> 
> They assume that as you're alone. you're desperate for a 'good husband'...and telling them your husband is around doesn't work...For some delusional and arrogant reason, they assume they're 'better' than your husband.
> 
> I learnt very early on in Arabic, if I was asked about my 'husband'..No I don't have one... and no, I definitely don't want one!
> I told them I was happy living with my 25 year old weightlifter son and our rotweiler!!
> 
> Seriously... you just have to sit alone in a coffee shop for 5 minutes, waiting to meet a friend, and you'll hear the words "Hello...where from"??
> 
> The problem is, so many women (mainly, but not only Russian) DO go there to find a man!
> 
> As I may have said before.....both my husband and I (We met in Egypt...we both lived in different parts before we met) saw countless women from England, Ireland, USA...arriving with everything....and leaving with nothing....or not even having the plane fare to leave!
> 
> Even if you're not "rich"... you're probably rich by their standard...in Hurghada, men often work in bazaars , cafes etc, just on a commission basis, earning a couple of dollars a day if they're lucky...often with a wife and a couple of kids in a remote village somewhere that they're trying to support.
> A woman I worked with was befriended by a very nice and respectable Egyptian hijaabi (veiled) lady, met her for coffee etc a few times, and was introduced to this lady's brother...My colleague liked the brother, started dating him...He wanted to 'marry' her immediately...within days, they had an ORFI marriage (Worthless...google it)..she bought him an internet café (For our future, habibi!)...
> Turned out the "sister" was really "wifey"....and my friend was scammed from the first hello!!!
> She went back to Germany, broken hearted and broke....
> 
> Carolle.... nobody's trying to put you off, or put you down....Just that we've all seen it....everybody thinks they're "too smart for that'.....We're just trying to give you a reality check.
> Go ahead.... have fun... just remember... the people on this forum have no ulterior motives for warning you of this stuff....
> Whereas, Egyptian men are just 'walking ulterior motives'!!!
> 
> Are you planning on working in Hurghada??


Hi, thank you for your email, I really am aware of what they will try to do but I really am not interested, even if I met someone there and Im not coming for a husband believe me, I still would not give them money, if I did meet someone, I would be extremely wary of the consequences. I dont think Im too smart for it, and my post about what I would do was more tongue in cheek, Im sure they would try but by people telling me this stuff, it just makes u more aware doesnt it, and being aware is what its about. Im not planning on working, but would like to do some charity work if possible, which is not paid work. Thank u so much for everything and Im truly grateful for any advice. regards carolle


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## twosocks

No need to have your stomach all in knots or second guess yourself. Opinoins and advise have been brought forward and you can make use of it as you please. You have mastered you life up until now and you will continue to do so. 
I have lived the life of an expat for over 30 years in many different countries and this has shaped who I'm today. Keep the spirit, be bold, stay positive and embrace the challenges that come with everyday life. Explore a new culture and by all means participate in rewarding charity work, and remember, a word of kindness can go a long way. Make your Dream become Reality.
In a few years from now I will explore the path of my Golden Years and spend as much time as I can at my place in Sahl Hasheesh. Keep us in the loop on how you are getting on. All the Best.


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## sahara1

twosocks said:


> No need to have your stomach all in knots or second guess yourself. Opinoins and advise have been brought forward and you can make use of it as you please. You have mastered you life up until now and you will continue to do so.
> I have lived the life of an expat for over 30 years in many different countries and this has shaped who I'm today. Keep the spirit, be bold, stay positive and embrace the challenges that come with everyday life. Explore a new culture and by all means participate in rewarding charity work, and remember, a word of kindness can go a long way. Make your Dream become Reality.
> In a few years from now I will explore the path of my Golden Years and spend as much time as I can at my place in Sahl Hasheesh. Keep us in the loop on how you are getting on. All the Best.


Well said twosocks :clap2: Ok so you have been warned over and over, forwarned is forarmed as they say. The 'expats' who are here on 'highly paid' expat salaries do have a choice to come to Egypt and they made that choice and now they are complaining ..... constantly!!

I came to Egypt as a single female over 9 years ago. I've lived in Sharm, Hurghada and Cairo, yes its been 'difficult' at times with the hassle and constantly being ripped off and we all deal with that in our own way, as long as you can laugh about it later you're doing fine and believe me there are lots of funny moments when you see some of the crazy things that go on.

I didn't come on an 'expat package' but worked locally in Maadi where you will find the majority of 'expat's' are hired in from overseas. Not all but certainly most of these people have a 'holier than though' attitude and I have seen the way they treat Egyptians. They were the cleaners, the drivers, the car washers, the invisible until their master wanted something. (I know I'm gonna get stick for this but think about it ....... I know its work for them but please at least treat them like human beings.

I diverse, anyway Carroll follow your dream, if you don't you will never know and always wonder, if it dosen't work out, so what you tried and that's braver than not trying at all. Since the revolution of course its much tougher, crime is soaring and security is practically no existant .... or asleep. Personally I love Egypt and it breaks my heart to see it go the way it is and reluctantly I have decided to leave and try somewhere else. I don't regret a minute of anything I have done and will always look back with great memories of Egypt.

If you want to pm me and have a chat please feel free to do so. Good luck


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## carolleb

Thank you, some posts have upset me, Im not coming there to find a man lets get that cleared up now, I have no interest in an urfi marriage and never will have. Yes I do know what it is and I have read up on it. Not for me ever. I know some people will think that but they dont know me. I want a new life, I want a challenge, make new friends, to hell with anything else. Im not saying if I met a man I wouldnt date one, but certainly would not be some young guy after what he can get. My husband died nearly 12 years ago, he was a brilliant soldier, awarded the MM for outstanding bravery in the Falklands war, died of cancer at christmas. My family here are useless and cold and im the black sheep it seems. but hey are narrow minded and self opinionated, I dont need that. My sons are doing their own thing, so I want to do mine thats all, so a little compassion a little help and new friends would be nice


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## MaidenScotland

sahara1 said:


> Well said twosocks :clap2: Ok so you have been warned over and over, forwarned is forarmed as they say. The 'expats' who are here on 'highly paid' expat salaries do have a choice to come to Egypt and they made that choice and now they are complaining ..... constantly!!
> 
> I came to Egypt as a single female over 9 years ago. I've lived in Sharm, Hurghada and Cairo, yes its been 'difficult' at times with the hassle and constantly being ripped off and we all deal with that in our own way, as long as you can laugh about it later you're doing fine and believe me there are lots of funny moments when you see some of the crazy things that go on.
> 
> I didn't come on an 'expat package' but worked locally in Maadi where you will find the majority of 'expat's' are hired in from overseas. Not all but certainly most of these people have a 'holier than though' attitude and I have seen the way they treat Egyptians. They were the cleaners, the drivers, the car washers, the invisible until their master wanted something. (I know I'm gonna get stick for this but think about it ....... I know its work for them but please at least treat them like human beings.
> 
> I diverse, anyway Carroll follow your dream, if you don't you will never know and always wonder, if it dosen't work out, so what you tried and that's braver than not trying at all. Since the revolution of course its much tougher, crime is soaring and security is practically no existant .... or asleep. Personally I love Egypt and it breaks my heart to see it go the way it is and reluctantly I have decided to leave and try somewhere else. I don't regret a minute of anything I have done and will always look back with great memories of Egypt.
> 
> If you want to pm me and have a chat please feel free to do so. Good luck





A very sweeping statement.. not all but most... yes there are people who treat their maids badly and the maids end up running away.. but do your research and find out what nationality of expats treat their maids in this way rather than trying to say it is us on this forum who are guilty. Why do local people want to work for foreigners? 

Yes we might complain as is our right... you have done said nothing to contradict what we are complaining about in fact you have decided to leave because of the way the country is going... the very things we complain about.

Personally I live here because I am cushioned via my job.. would I stay here without my expat package... not even for a day


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## sahara1

MaidenScotland said:


> A very sweeping statement.. not all but most... yes there are people who treat their maids badly and the maids end up running away.. but do your research and find out what nationality of expats treat their maids in this way rather than trying to say it is us on this forum who are guilty. Why do local people want to work for foreigners? I have never mentioned any nationality or to say its people on the forum necessarily!!
> 
> Yes we might complain as is our right... you have done said nothing to contradict what we are complaining about in fact you have decided to leave because of the way the country is going... the very things we complain about. No I haven't contradicted anything but sometimes responses come across as not so much 'well intensioned' but downright insulting and assuming .... blah, blah, blah before they even know the posters circumstances.
> 
> Personally I live here because I am cushioned via my job.. would I stay here without my expat package... not even for a day


Amen


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## carolleb

*hurghada*



MaidenScotland said:


> A very sweeping statement.. not all but most... yes there are people who treat their maids badly and the maids end up running away.. but do your research and find out what nationality of expats treat their maids in this way rather than trying to say it is us on this forum who are guilty. Why do local people want to work for foreigners?
> 
> Yes we might complain as is our right... you have done said nothing to contradict what we are complaining about in fact you have decided to leave because of the way the country is going... the very things we complain about.
> 
> Personally I live here because I am cushioned via my job.. would I stay here without my expat package... not even for a day


Thank you for that, I will pm you later.

carolle


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## Gounie

Good for you Carol!!! Are you on Facebook? There are many Groups on there depending on your interests/activities and you can see the life that those that have time to enjoy are leading. Do you scuba dive? We have a little diving club for residents in El Gouna where social and snorkel members are welcome. The membership is spent on our monthly social events. It's just an example of life on the Red Sea Coast:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/60608698930/?ref=ts&fref=ts


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## carolleb

*scuba*

Do you know Ive never ever done it, always wanted to try and I really would like to learn it would give me something worthwhile to learn, never to old I say lol
Thank you for your nice email, how far is el gouna from hurghada by the way.

regards carolle


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## carolleb

*facebook*



Gounie said:


> Good for you Carol!!! Are you on Facebook? There are many Groups on there depending on your interests/activities and you can see the life that those that have time to enjoy are leading. Do you scuba dive? We have a little diving club for residents in El Gouna where social and snorkel members are welcome. The membership is spent on our monthly social events. It's just an example of life on the Red Sea Coast:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/60608698930/?ref=ts&fref=ts


I am on facebook yes so tell me what to look for and I will.


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## Gounie

carolleb said:


> Do you know Ive never ever done it, always wanted to try and I really would like to learn it would give me something worthwhile to learn, never to old I say lol
> Thank you for your nice email, how far is el gouna from hurghada by the way.
> 
> regards carolle


El Gouna is 24km so 30 minutes in a taxi. Our club meets every Thursday at 7pm for Happy Hour in the Club House in Downtown El Gouna.


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## carolleb

*plan*



Gounie said:


> El Gouna is 24km so 30 minutes in a taxi. Our club meets every Thursday at 7pm for Happy Hour in the Club House in Downtown El Gouna.


That sounds like a plan to me, your on ok, when i get out there so be in touch and thanks. Carolle:clap2:


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## Peter Mitry

carolleb said:


> That sounds like a plan to me, your on ok, when i get out there so be in touch and thanks. Carolle:clap2:


Wow! This thread has certainly stirred up some deep seated feelings!! Generally though a good cross section of views.

It's sad to see some of the Mods so negative; as I have said before there are many people living here who come with their eyes wide open and because they are fed up with the alternatives in their own country.

Also Hurghada is not Cairo; there is no real comparison.


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## carolleb

Thanks peter it sure has but for two days I was debating what to do, felt so down over it all then oops off I went, head up and back in action. and thanks for answering, someone told me to contact you. She said you were a good person to ask things if I needed to. But right now cant remember her flipping name on here, think its hurghada dreamer I think. will have to check now. regards carolle


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## carolleb

peter, it was egyptian dream, you should know who I mean now, im still finding my way around here sorry.


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## Peter Mitry

*Retiring to Hurghada*



carolleb said:


> peter, it was egyptian dream, you should know who I mean now, im still finding my way around here sorry.


Well I hope Egyptian Dream will forgive me but I have no idea who it is as this is just a forum name! But no problem, I will help in any way I can.


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## MaidenScotland

Peter Mitry said:


> Wow! This thread has certainly stirred up some deep seated feelings!! Generally though a good cross section of views.
> 
> It's sad to see some of the Mods so negative; as I have said before there are many people living here who come with their eyes wide open and because they are fed up with the alternatives in their own country.
> 
> Also Hurghada is not Cairo; there is no real comparison.




and once again Peter... I have nothing to sell.. People that are coming are already sold on the idea so there is no need to tell them that the sun shines and the weather is great. 

Mods are here to make sure the rules of the forum are adhered to..


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## twosocks

@Sahara1, Thank you for sharing part of your life lived in Egypt. Challenges for a working expat vs retired expat can differ greatly and it is our choice what approach we take to life. 
Exploitation unfortunately happens in every country and it takes great courage to take a stand against any form of oppression no matter where and when it happens. I applaud you for taking a stand. 
Despite your leaving, Egypt will always be there to welcome you back.


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## Gounie

I was shocked actually last night when an oil worker friend from Cairo told me how bad the feeling is in Cairo. He said everyone wants to leave and he is buying a home in Cyprus! He also talked about the ending of fuel subsidies on 95 octane fuel which will kick the unrest off big time in a few weeks?


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> I was shocked actually last night when an oil worker friend from Cairo told me how bad the feeling is in Cairo. He said everyone wants to leave and he is buying a home in Cyprus! He also talked about the ending of fuel subsidies on 95 octane fuel which will kick the unrest off big time in a few weeks?




I know we live in two different parts of the country but I honestly feel that what happens here will filter through to the red sea...


Ending the 95 octane fuel subsidy will not in my opinion kick off unrest for now as it is only higher end cars that use it..but it will set the motion in process of ridding all subsidies on fuel as in the weeks to follow they will suddenly have a shortage of the subsidised fuel so people will have to buy the full price ...they will slowly phase out all fuel but the 95 octane and this is when the **** will hit the fan.

Perhaps living in Cairo gives us a better feel for the way the country is going..


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## Gounie

This is interesting to read about the fuel:
Fuel Subsidy Changes in Egypt: Help or Hindrance? | Global Torchlight


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## MaidenScotland

Quite simply Egypt cannot afford all these subsidies


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## Peter Mitry

MaidenScotland said:


> I know we live in two different parts of the country but I honestly feel that what happens here will filter through to the red sea...
> 
> 
> Ending the 95 octane fuel subsidy will not in my opinion kick off unrest for now as it is only higher end cars that use it..but it will set the motion in process of ridding all subsidies on fuel as in the weeks to follow they will suddenly have a shortage of the subsidised fuel so people will have to buy the full price ...they will slowly phase out all fuel but the 95 octane and this is when the **** will hit the fan.
> 
> Perhaps living in Cairo gives us a better feel for the way the country is going..


This whole issue needs to be very carefully thought through as it affects the whole country and every aspect of everyday life; many people struggle just to get fuel with the shortages, let alone having to pay the level of prices which we are used to in the rest of the world. We regularly see queues in Hurghada up to 800 metres, particularly with commercial vehicles waiting for diesel. This is dead time; no deliveries, zero productivity. If increases in fuel prices means we get the country back to working more efficiently then that is to be welcomed. The problem is that with so many people below the poverty line this will cause severe hardship as prices in the shops rise to meet the extra cost.

This country unfortunately has many hard choices to make in the future; democracy comes at a price and there will always be winners and losers. The government needs to develop a strategic plan which will raise revenues, increase productivity and generate revenues which are then reinvested to help the poorest in society. The difficulty in any emerging democracy is finding people with the experience to make the right decisions.


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## aykalam

Gounie said:


> I was shocked actually last night when an oil worker friend from Cairo told me how bad the feeling is in Cairo. He said everyone wants to leave and he is buying a home in Cyprus! He also talked about the ending of fuel subsidies on 95 octane fuel which will kick the unrest off big time in a few weeks?


I would say mainly Western expats want to leave. There has been a huge inflow of expats from other Arab countries, especially Libya and Syria, not to mention the many non-Arab Muslims who think of the "new" Egypt as their dreamland. So yes, many Europeans and Americans are increasingly uneasy living in Cairo, the place has changed.


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> I would say mainly Western expats want to leave. There has been a huge inflow of expats from other Arab countries, especially Libya and Syria, not to mention the many non-Arab Muslims who think of the "new" Egypt as their dreamland. So yes, many Europeans and Americans are increasingly uneasy living in Cairo, the place has changed.




I know lots of Egyptians who have left and say they wont return however I do know of one that is coming back from France but it's a man that is bringing her back... 


off topic but interesting.. Egyptian doctor friend was at a wedding last week and 3 dentists in the Maadi area told him they have shut up shop as there is no work


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## CAIRODEMON

Gounie said:


> I was shocked actually last night when an oil worker friend from Cairo told me how bad the feeling is in Cairo. He said everyone wants to leave and he is buying a home in Cyprus! He also talked about the ending of fuel subsidies on 95 octane fuel which will kick the unrest off big time in a few weeks?


If the oil workers feel this way then the rest of us should already be in the departure lounge, since truly they are the anointed ones of the ex-pat community. 

Lifting the subsidies on 95 octane will cause big time unrest? Give me a break, the subsidy is already low and its only said oil workers, a few other ex-pats and some rich Egyptians who use it. Now touching the subsidy on tamanin, that's a totally different scenario.


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## Helen Ellis

*Visa*



carolleb said:


> I have been to Hurghada and loved it there, why i didnt think of it in the first place I do not know, all I do know is just had enough here. Just been onto the egyptian embassy site to look at the visa requirements, I thought a multi entry visa which is for 90 days would be the best way to go initially. thank you for replying. appreciated



Easiest way is to turn up and buy visa at airport. After a month go to visa office and extend to a year. I will go with you if you like. Multi entry addition to visa is only valid for 6 months so only buy it when you are leaving on holiday. 
Try it here for a year or so and if you don't like it you've not lost anything.
Best place to meet other women is Lotus ladies group which meets in Hurghada Marina at Alf Leila coffee shop (at the mosque end) between 3 and 5 every Wednesday. The time usually changes to earlier for the winter.
Just turn up, we're easy to spot.


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## Biffy

Fuel subsidies - as for thinking or not thinking it through - Egypt has no choice.

They have applied for loans of billions - and with the loans come some strings! How can the country be given a loan when it subsidises so many things - bread / petrol / electricity are just a few.

The terms of the loans insist that if Egypt wants the money then they also have to be active in reducing subsidies and raising some of the money they require themselves.
Ending the subsidies that the governement cannot afford in any way shape or form is what they have to follow through.
They have talked of rationing the cheap subsidised petrol - but now sure how that will work.

But trust me on this - there is trouble ahead in Egypt.

More expensive petrol should not hit the price of the food on the shelves because the diesel that the vehicles use is not affected - but a reduction in the subsidy on bread will hit the normal people of egypt, as will the way the electricty subsidies are calculated!!

As has been said before Egypt cannot sustain this rate of subsidy with the number of people - and the terms of the loans that they have asked for have stipulated that they need to raise some money themselves!!

So they can think it through for however long they like - but what other choice is there?? - Not to have the loans!!

Egypt is unstable with high and volatile feelings - and will remain like this for some considerable time - if you read and read on the net - only now they are not talking not 2nd revolution but civil war!!

The country has not reached the bottom yet unfortunately - it is still on its way down - and to get it on its feet again is a very big ask.

And I can't see that the red sea areas will remain unscathed - and 'out of Egypt' - the rest of the country isn't outside.

Anyway a bit off topic so let us get :focus:


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## Gounie

There is a protest planned for Tuesday in Hurghada at 6pm in El Dahar area.
https://www.facebook.com/events/268831203239847/


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