# El Chapo Guzman Captured In Mazatlan



## Ranch100 (Sep 17, 2010)

Drug Lord 'El Chapo' Guzman Captured In Mexico


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Ranch100 said:


> Drug Lord 'El Chapo' Guzman Captured In Mexico


Hopefully they lock him up and throw the key away! 
He and all the others like him are nothing but garbage


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Ranch100 said:


> Drug Lord 'El Chapo' Guzman Captured In Mexico


Very good thing that Chapo Guzman was captured. Now I hope we don't get retaliation from his gang, second thing would be a struggle for power within them.
One other thought...
How can it be that it took 13 years to capture him?
Mexican and American authorities should be ashamed by that. It is not possible! 13 yrs! The guy went to school for 3 years!!!
Those cliches made by hollywood about drug criminals being important, wealthy, gourmets,respected, cultured, educated, respectful within a criminal code, all those things are nothing but rubbish.
The movies and media have worked very hard to make them look cool, even some names given to them or by themselves...TEMPLAR KNIGHTS... they make me laugh! there is nothing about knights in them, they don't even know who the real templar knights were, they can barely speak and write Spanish. 
Some articles talk about poor kids longing to become drug lords, that's because of the movies and media!
Youngsters want to be like Chaz Palmintieri, Robert de Niro, Al Pacino...Those are actors !!!!
And those stories are written by guys who don't know the first thing about being a criminal.
Criminals are worth...nothing, not in Mexico, not anywhere


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## Jolga (Jun 5, 2012)

Great news!!! A bit less pond scum to gum up the works. 

Now what really concerns me is the Mexican penal system. If they incarcerate him in Mexico there is a chance that he will be able to buy himself out again.
In the videos and pictures that I have seen of him after his capture he does not look as desperate as he should. He probably has a contingency plan in place and that includes funds readily available to grease the system.

Perhaps the US should take him. Say what you will about their penal system, one thing is clear; once you're in ... you're in .. escapes are quite rare and exceptional.

If this POS gets out again he will be even more of a folk hero for the great unwashed.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Jolga said:


> Great news!!! A bit less pond scum to gum up the works.
> 
> Now what really concerns me is the Mexican penal system. If they incarcerate him in Mexico there is a chance that he will be able to buy himself out again.
> In the videos and pictures that I have seen of him after his capture he does not look as desperate as he should. He probably has a contingency plan in place and that includes funds readily available to grease the system.
> ...


The US system should take him???
WHY? What does Mexican judicial system has to do with the US system? Answer: Nothing
US police worked, helped on his capture, but we are A DIFFERENT Country, not a state of the US, not a territory, not...anything, in any case, neighbors who don't really understand each other and with a rough history...
I don't think that THIS TIME he will be able to escape, who knows
Going back to the US... people has escaped American prisons as well
We don't have to worry about that, he will not be sent to the US


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> The US system should take him???
> WHY? What does Mexican judicial system has to do with the US system? Answer: Nothing
> US police worked, helped on his capture, but we are A DIFFERENT Country, not a state of the US, not a territory, not...anything, in any case, neighbors who don't really understand each other and with a rough history...
> I don't think that THIS TIME he will be able to escape, who knows
> ...


He is an international criminal wanted in the US as well. The US has requested that Mexico extradite him. It probably won't happen. But I can understand the concern of some that the resources and influence he has will carry more weight in Mexico than they would in the US. And for that reason, some would like to see him tried and incarcerated in the US.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> The US system should take him???
> WHY? What does Mexican judicial system has to do with the US system? Answer: Nothing
> US police worked, helped on his capture, but we are A DIFFERENT Country, not a state of the US, not a territory, not...anything, in any case, neighbors who don't really understand each other and with a rough history...
> I don't think that THIS TIME he will be able to escape, who knows
> ...


Gary, there are arrest warrants out for El Chapo in the US, as well as in Mexico.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20140223/4be62122-8e90-49ab-bf8a-8d72cac4f27f


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Gary, there are arrest warrants out for El Chapo in the US, as well as in Mexico. http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20140223/4be62122-8e90-49ab-bf8a-8d72cac4f27f


I know, he may have warrants in many places, but he was arrested in Mexico
I reacted to the post because by the way it was written, I thought Mexico should give the prisoner to the US because jail system is more effective there...
There have been many MANY escapes in the US as well
And again, not because someone has warrants in any place we, Mexicans, have to give our prisoners away


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## Jolga (Jun 5, 2012)

Here is a an article about the escape rates in US prisons. Seems it has been going down in the past years.

Prison Escapes on the Decline - ABC News

I couldn't find any reliable stats on Mexican Prison Escapes, but according to this article we should hope that El Capo is not incarcerated in the North of Mexico as the Zetas control many of the Prisons there:

Borderland Beat: The ZETA Prison Escapes to Replenish Zetas Ranks

Yes, the Zetas and the Sinaloa Cartel are mortal enemies at the moment but a crooked prison employee who is already on the take can change allegiances quickly for the right price.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Jolga said:


> Here is a an article about the escape rates in US prisons. Seems it has been going down in the past years. Prison Escapes on the Decline - ABC News I couldn't find any reliable stats on Mexican Prison Escapes, but according to this article we should hope that El Capo is not incarcerated in the North of Mexico as the Zetas control many of the Prisons there: Borderland Beat: The ZETA Prison Escapes to Replenish Zetas Ranks Yes, the Zetas and the Sinaloa Cartel are mortal enemies at the moment but a crooked prison employee who is already on the take can change allegiances quickly for the right price.


Don't worry about Mexican escape statistics, they may be higher, so what?
Once again, it is not a matter of discussion, the crook stays in Mexico


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Maybe a coincidence but I was driving northbound on Highway 15 today between Tepic and Mazatlan, going southbound was at least 30 semi trucks all painted white with out any marking of any kind on the truck or trailer, wonder what they were hauling south???????


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> Maybe a coincidence but I was driving northbound on Highway 15 today between Tepic and Mazatlan, going southbound was at least 30 semi trucks all painted white with out any marking of any kind on the truck or trailer, wonder what they were hauling south???????


What do you think?
Drug?
Chapo?
Chapo was transported by air


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> What do you think?
> Drug?
> Chapo?
> Chapo was transported by air


Maybe trucks full of all the contents of his apartment and those of his associates? Or a coincidence as Chicois said.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> Maybe trucks full of all the contents of his apartment and those of his associates? Or a coincidence as Chicois said.


30 semi trucks?
I bet it was a coincidence


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> 30 semi trucks?
> I bet it was a coincidence


Thirty almost identical semis? Maybe not a coincidence, but I doubt we'll ever know.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Thirty almost identical semis? Maybe not a coincidence, but I doubt we'll ever know.


in that case, and if I can use my imagination, they were probably trucks to be sold, delivered
Navy and army have camouflaged or green semitrucks


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Gary, All I know is what I see and seeing hundreds of 18 wheelers today with brand names or store logo it was strange to see this convoy of at least 30 trucks without any kind of markings at all and all the trucks were Freightliners.......Maybe if I were superman I could have used x-ray vision, could have been elote.............or crap from China........


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Criminals are worth...nothing, not in Mexico, not anywhere


Well, for many criminals ... it's a good life. In Mexico, where the federal government has lost control of sections of the country ... it's the criminals who rule. I'd say they're worth a lot. Billions of $ yearly. Criminals in countries which are more developed (such as the USA, Canada, European countries) tend to be more sophistocated. However, those in Mexico have done very well for themselves ... millions of Mexicans support and support themselves through criminal enterprises ... and tens of millions more suffer as a result. Not much will change with the arrest of this fella, IMO.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Longford said:


> Well, for many criminals ... it's a good life. In Mexico, where the federal government has lost control of sections of the country ... it's the criminals who rule. I'd say they're worth a lot. Billions of $ yearly. Criminals in countries which are more developed (such as the USA, Canada, European countries) tend to be more sophistocated. However, those in Mexico have done very well for themselves ... millions of Mexicans support and support themselves through criminal enterprises ... and tens of millions more suffer as a result. Not much will change with the arrest of this fella, IMO.


I agree with you
What I meant about their value, they are not worth nothing as persons, they are not even persons to me. They may be making lots of cash, but they live hidden like rats.

Millions of Mexicans support these guys, and millions of foreigners as well, by buying and consuming what they sell. Efforts should be stronger towards ending consumption of those goods. It is not nice, it is not cool. People get killed for those things

I also agree that the drug problem is far from ending by Chapo's arrest, Mexican and US authorities will be a bit less ashamed now. 13 years to take him!???
Mexican and US intelligence departments are not ver efficient are they?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Thanks for the further commentary, GaryJ.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> Well, for many criminals ... it's a good life. …


I wouldn't describe a life where you have to worry about being killed by the local, state, and federal police or the military or a rival cartel a "good life". There may be a lot of money in it, but you are risking your own life as well as your family's and everyone that associates with you. I can understand why young kids with not a lot of options can be attracted to it. The money looks great and they think they are immortal. But they aren't.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I wouldn't describe a life where you have to worry about being killed by the local, state, and federal police or the military or a rival cartel a "good life". There may be a lot of money in it, but you are risking your own life as well as your family's and everyone that associates with you. I can understand why young kids with not a lot of options can be attracted to it. The money looks great and they think they are immortal. But they aren't.


What about young Mexican beauty queens who end up as mistresses and even wives of these slime balls?


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## PanamaJack (Apr 1, 2013)

Gary your comments amaze me. 
The U.S. and Mexican Intelligence should be ashamed of themselves? you are bragging how he was arrested in Mexico, but it was thanks to the U.S. help. He has been in Mexico nearly the whole time, who is in charge of Mexican intelligence Mexicans? or the U.S? who should be ashamed? simple you and everyone else who is Mexican. You pay taxes for that work?
You say that plenty of people escape from prison in the U.S. but he escaped 13 years ago from where? MEXICO!
Your problem is you like many, many Mexicans wear you naitonalistic thoughts on your sleeve and go forbid someone speaks negatively about your country. You automatically lash back at people and say how bad their country is.
Face it Gary the penal system in Mexico is rotten to the core. The inmates rule a number of the jails just as they do in ALL of Latin America. Inmates have cell phones, drugs, televisions, microwave ovens etc etc They live like kings and the richer they are the better they live.
There is a former army officer in jail in Guatemala who was found guilty of hiring a hitman to kill a priest. Last year they found him at a beauty salon having his hair cut when he was supposed to be locked up. Come to find out the guards were taking him out once a month to whereever he wanted. 
If the government is corrupt, and bribery is rampant at all levels in the public and private sector, you can bet your bottom dollar it is rampant in the judicial system. Mexico is far from immune to that just like the rest of the region.
I hope he is extradiated to the U.S. that way he will end up dying in prison unlike in Mexico where he will bribe his way out one day.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PanamaJack said:


> Gary your comments amaze me.
> The U.S. and Mexican Intelligence should be ashamed of themselves? you are bragging how he was arrested in Mexico, but it was thanks to the U.S. help. He has been in Mexico nearly the whole time, who is in charge of Mexican intelligence Mexicans? or the U.S? who should be ashamed? simple you and everyone else who is Mexican. You pay taxes for that work?
> You say that plenty of people escape from prison in the U.S. but he escaped 13 years ago from where? MEXICO!
> Your problem is you like many, many Mexicans wear you naitonalistic thoughts on your sleeve and go forbid someone speaks negatively about your country. You automatically lash back at people and say how bad their country is.
> ...


I agree with a lot of what you say. But I have to take exception to one statement: "who should be ashamed? simple, you and everyone else who is Mexican". There are lots of reasons and a long history that have contributed to the judicial and corruption problems in Mexico. It is not something that will be solved in a day, nor is it something that most Mexicans can do anything about, certainly not very directly.

As far as Mexicans taking exception to people criticizing their country, that is a pretty human trait. I can dis my mother all day long but woe be to anyone else who makes a negative comment about her.

Furthermore, those of us north of the border in particular, ought to be careful about criticizing Mexico. Our country is and has been a big contributor to some of the problems Mexico has to deal with. Our country has plenty of faults of its own if we need something to criticize.


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## PanamaJack (Apr 1, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say. But I have to take exception to one statement: "who should be ashamed? simple, you and everyone else who is Mexican". There are lots of reasons and a long history that have contributed to the judicial and corruption problems in Mexico. It is not something that will be solved in a day, nor is it something that most Mexicans can do anything about, certainly not very directly.
> 
> As far as Mexicans taking exception to people criticizing their country, that is a pretty human trait. I can dis my mother all day long but woe be to anyone else who makes a negative comment about her.
> 
> Furthermore, those of us north of the border in particular, ought to be careful about criticizing Mexico. Our country is and has been a big contributor to some of the problems Mexico has to deal with. Our country has plenty of faults of its own if we need something to criticize.


Tundra I am a naturalized Mexican citizen. I think we ALL should be ashamed because corruption at every level kept him from being caught, it was corruption of the judicial system that helped him escape. the poor with no money think of him as Robin Hood just like Pablo Escobar so everyone at every level has played a part. I rarely criticize my second country, but when it deserves it, I do not hesitate to do so, otherwise you would be sticking your head in the sand....


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

PanamaJack said:


> Gary your comments amaze me.
> The U.S. and Mexican Intelligence should be ashamed of themselves? you are bragging how he was arrested in Mexico, but it was thanks to the U.S. help. He has been in Mexico nearly the whole time, who is in charge of Mexican intelligence Mexicans? or the U.S? who should be ashamed? simple you and everyone else who is Mexican. You pay taxes for that work?
> You say that plenty of people escape from prison in the U.S. but he escaped 13 years ago from where? MEXICO!
> Your problem is you like many, many Mexicans wear you naitonalistic thoughts on your sleeve and go forbid someone speaks negatively about your country. You automatically lash back at people and say how bad their country is.
> ...


As long as my comments amaze you, I'm happy 

Thanks to the US help? Who asked for their help? And if they were asked for help, why did it took 13 years to find the guy?
US intelligence fail, as well as many others, they have a long long history of fails, Pancho Villa, where they used, for the 1st time in history, airplanes to try to catch the guy. They failed.
Osama took a long long time to be found, and many many other examples. 

I don't know, maybe, as you say, I have a nationalistic problem, the thing here is that I don't care, I don't even think it is a problem and I don't think you are certified to diagnose my problems.

I don't think I have to face anything, I know how things are and don't need anyone to tell me, most of all in such a manner as you do. Maybe you don't like the way I am, or how I write, or how I think, if so, just don't try to teach me where I am wrong, just...don't mind me

I am also happy that you are Mexican now and share the same reality


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

WOW! 3 pages of Gary getting' fired up! Hold on guys! Let me go get a bowl of POPCORN.

Nobody asked for the US's involvement...we just got involved as usual. It just so happen that we actually "did" help this time.

Why did it take 13 years to find him? Simple....Nobody wanted him found. Chapo has more connections than an erector set and I'm sure he has political influence that helped make some of his cohorts rich in the last 13 years....as well as dead. It was in Mexico and the US's best interest to play like they wanted to find him...you know...fun to talk about and spend millions of tax dollars "trying" to find him. All BS that stinks to high.

We found BIN LADEN because thats what the american people wanted. We didn't find Chapo because of "Chapo Who?". The US didn't care and Mexico did "need" to catch him yet.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

conorkilleen said:


> WOW! 3 pages of Gary getting' fired up! Hold on guys! Let me go get a bowl of POPCORN.
> 
> Nobody asked for the US's involvement...we just got involved as usual. It just so happen that we actually "did" help this time.
> 
> ...


I agree with you !
I already got my pop corn bowl!

Chapo who? I think America know him, but did not want to catch one of the major suppliers of drug


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Chapo who? I think America know him, but did not want to catch one of the major suppliers of drug












Source: thenorthwestleaf.com


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> I agree with you !
> I already got my pop corn bowl!
> 
> Chapo who? I think America know him, but did not want to catch one of the major suppliers of drug


And what evidence do you have to support the claim that the US did not want to catch Guzman? I will leave it to you to comment on whether Mexico really wanted to catch him.

PS I think giving these characters clever nicknames is a bad practice. It just tends to glorify them and make it sound like they are something other than just scumbags who make a lot of money dealing in drugs, death and destruction.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> And what evidence do you have to support the claim that the US did not want to catch Guzman? I will leave it to you to comment on whether Mexico really wanted to catch him.
> 
> .


It makes a better story...you know...the elusive Forbes billionaire with 10 wives that just so happens to be the most powerful drug dealer in Mexico (not in the world, don't believe the hype). Its like cat and mouse. Also its fun to spend tax payers money without actually doing anything....Mexico or the US...its both the same racket.

Evidence? He's not even on the top 10 Most Wanted List for Terrorists or Fugitives, that the evidence.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

conorkilleen said:


> It makes a better story...you know...the elusive Forbes billionaire with 10 wives that just so happens to be the most powerful drug dealer in Mexico (not in the world, don't believe the hype). Its like cat and mouse. Also its fun to spend tax payers money without actually doing anything....Mexico or the US...its both the same racket.
> 
> Evidence? He's not even on the top 10 Most Wanted List for Terrorists or Fugitives, that the evidence.


He was not in the US or Mexico's list
Nor we saw huge efforts on either side to catch the guy, just like an Amber alert for drug dealers
For 13 yrs all we see is the police wishing to bump into him and then make an arrest.
If he was really that important, they would have made everyday's efforts to finding him

The guy went to school up to the 3rd degree !!!
I bet his IQ is as high as a rock with eyes!

Mexico's police were inept and corrupt on this case, and the US police did not want to (r could not ) catch one of the main suppliers, they should see those CSI, Rambo, NCIS, the blacklist, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, etc. shows to see how it's done!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> … Mexico's police were inept and corrupt on this case, and the US police did not want to (r could not ) catch one of the main suppliers, they should see those CSI, Rambo, NCIS, the blacklist, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, etc. shows to see how it's done!


I can't believe you are suggesting that the fantasies that exist in Hollywood movies have anything to do with real life. :confused2:


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> I can't believe you are suggesting that the fantasies that exist in Hollywood movies have anything to do with real life. :confused2:


Obviously you're not a golfer


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> I can't believe you are suggesting that the fantasies that exist in Hollywood movies have anything to do with real life. :confused2:


I am just kidding!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> I am just kidding!


That is reassuring.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> Obviously you're not a golfer


???


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/opinion/the-capture-of-chapo-guzman.html?_r=0


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

"There should be no illusions that one arrest means mission accomplished. It was the United States that supplied the insatiable demand for Mr. Guzmán’s products, along with the money and the guns. Responsibility for the continuing tragedy that spawned criminals like Mr. Guzmán belongs on both sides of our shared border."

Right on, the USA and Canada demands drugs and South America and Mexico supplies...........


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> Right on, the USA and Canada demands drugs and South America and Mexico supplies...........



Ummm...you are kidding yourself if you think that Mexico and SA don't also have a drug problem and support the issue. The plus side, or down side as you may have it, about the US and Canada is that its bigger business in the export and distribution internationally rather than distribution locally. Would it be the same if the roles were reversed?


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Are you sure it's him?????


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

terrybahena said:


> Are you sure it's him?????


It is interesting to me, that among Mexicans I have discussed this subject with, and it amounts to maybe 20 people, none, not a one of them, believes that the guy they caught was really Guzman.

I don't know whether that is a reflection of a deep distrust of the Mexican military/political establishment, or if they are just like conspiracy theories, or something else altogether.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> It is interesting to me, that among Mexicans I have discussed this subject with, and it amounts to maybe 20 people, none, not a one of them, believes that the guy they caught was really Guzman. I don't know whether that is a reflection of a deep distrust of the Mexican military/political establishment, or if they are just like conspiracy theories, or something else altogether.


I think the guy they cought is Guzman, most people I know think the same way


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I think the guy they cought is Guzman, most people I know think the same way


From what I've read, they did all sorts of tests on him (including DNA tests) to ascertain that his is indeed El Chapo. Even La Jornada seems to think he is the real deal, and they hate to admit the government ever does anything worthy of praise!


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

I actually a little surprised that no one here seems upset or concerned about his arrest.


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

emilybcruz said:


> I actually a little surprised that no one here seems upset or concerned about his arrest.


The Mexicans I've talked to don't think it's him....


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

emilybcruz said:


> I actually a little surprised that no one here seems upset or concerned about his arrest.


Why would expats (most of those on this site) be upset or concerned about his arrest???

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Detailman said:


> Why would expats (most of those on this site) be upset or concerned about his arrest???
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Well surely the cartel has a plan to continue business in the event of his capture. Which means it's only a matter of time before someone else takes his place. Yet whenever there are such drastic changes in any organization, there are sure to be disagreements about the business and who should do what and why did Chapo put you in charge of this and etc, etc. Which really means that Mexico is in store for a whole new round of turf wars. Maybe some of you live in areas that weren't affected by those turf wars and that's why you aren't concerned, but they raged through much of Mexico. I am very sad at the thought of things going back to the way they were in the 2005-2010ish era. Sickened actually. 

And his arrest does nothing to prevent the flow of narcotics into the US. Someone *will *take his place. Surely someone already has. The arrest doesn't solve any problems whatsoever if you ask me.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

terrybahena said:


> The Mexicans I've talked to don't think it's him....


If the Mexican government hasn't caught the real El Chapo, then why have a bunch of his supporters recently held large demonstrations in Culiacán and a couple of other cities asking for his release or at least that he not be extradited to the United States?


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

El Chapo: drug lord's arrest sparks apprehension from Mexico to Chicago


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> If the Mexican government hasn't caught the real El Chapo, then why have a bunch of his supporters recently held large demonstrations in Culiacán and a couple of other cities asking for his release or at least that he not be extradited to the United States?


Because they don't know any more than the rest of us know. That's why, IMO.

I don't disbelieve the reports of his capture, however. But I understand the depth of distrust of their government amongst Mexicans which would cause many to question whether it's really him or not.


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't know I was just relating what I heard with a tiny smile.


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't know anything- and actually I misunderstood the post asking why no one here was bothered by it- I thought the poster meant "here" to be Mexicans. I don't believe half the stuff I see reported in the US and feel at least the same here. I was happy when I could see BBC news which I don't get here(because of cable carrier choice), still stuck with CNN Int'l. I do think however that one person is not going to change the face/ business dealings of the cartel. I also found it interesting to hear Mexicans saying it's not him- he is the wrong height, why would a guy with a labyrinth of tunnels and secret places be in a motel....stuff like that- probly conspiracy theories, right? So when I saw it discussed here, I just thought I'd throw something in.


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

terrybahena said:


> I don't know anything- and actually I misunderstood the post asking why no one here was bothered by it- I thought the poster meant "here" to be Mexicans.


When I said "here" I did mean people living in Mexico. Cartel activity plays a huge part in my daily life, especially considering I live in Juarez, even though I am not personally involved with it. And the same can be said for many others in Mexico, whether they realize it or not.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

emilybcruz said:


> When I said "here" I did mean people living in Mexico. Cartel activity plays a huge part in my daily life, especially considering I live in Juarez, even though I am not personally involved with it. And the same can be said for many others in Mexico, whether they realize it or not.




I would think if anyone was worried it would be people living in Sinaloa......


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> I would think if anyone was worried it would be people living in Sinaloa......


How so? The cocaine is being brought from South America, the heroin from Asia, the marijuana from campos throughout Mexico, the meth from mega-maquilas in Sinaloa. And then it needs to be distributed. The routes span all over the globe. So, why would only Sinaloans be worried?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

emilybcruz said:


> Well surely the cartel has a plan to continue business in the event of his capture. Which means it's only a matter of time before someone else takes his place. Yet whenever there are such drastic changes in any organization, there are sure to be disagreements about the business and who should do what and why did Chapo put you in charge of this and etc, etc. Which really means that Mexico is in store for a whole new round of turf wars. Maybe some of you live in areas that weren't affected by those turf wars and that's why you aren't concerned, but they raged through much of Mexico. I am very sad at the thought of things going back to the way they were in the 2005-2010ish era. Sickened actually.
> 
> And his arrest does nothing to prevent the flow of narcotics into the US. Someone *will *take his place. Surely someone already has. The arrest doesn't solve any problems whatsoever if you ask me.


I agree with you that arresting the leaders of the cartels is not going to magically solve the problems associated with the drug trade in Mexico and the US. Even legalization of all drugs in both countries, something we are very far from today, would not solve all the problems. The cartels are too big and too entrenched to go away quietly. Even 80 years after the repeal of Prohibition in the US, we are still dealing with the racketeering and crime carried on by the gangs that built their base on alcohol during prohibition.

So what is the solution to the problem. I do not see how the government can simply ignore the cartels and hope that somehow they will work things out for themselves. There is too much violence and collateral damage associated with that model. The situation in Michoacán is evidence of what happens when the already meager government enforcement of the laws breaks down completely.

You seem to suggest that the Sinaloa cartel should be left alone. What would suggest as an alternative to arresting the leaders.


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

I believe that the solution is going to need to be a combination of ending prohibition in the US, and making changes to the educational system in Mexico. Redistributing tax dollars to provide free public school through prepa is the first step. I think that if you cut off the need for demand in the US, and you provide Mexicans with opporunities so that they aren't so desperate financially that they join the cartels in the first place.

Obviously this is a complex problem though. There is no easy solution. But they can arrest cartel members all day long, it's not going to make any difference.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

emilybcruz said:


> How so? The cocaine is being brought from South America, the heroin from Asia, the marijuana from campos throughout Mexico, the meth from mega-maquilas in Sinaloa. And then it needs to be distributed. The routes span all over the globe. So, why would only Sinaloans be worried?




Because the Zetas would love to take over the SIN cartel in there own backyard, but Juárez could be a battle ground also, que lastima..........

P.S. There is tons of heroin and marijuana grown in Copper Canyon now a days.........


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

emilybcruz said:


> When I said "here" I did mean people living in Mexico. Cartel activity plays a huge part in my daily life, especially considering I live in Juarez, even though I am not personally involved with it. And the same can be said for many others in Mexico, whether they realize it or not.


I think you're right. Not only do the war, terrorism, crime and criminal activities to the cartels affect Mexico and Mexicans, such things directly impact tens of millions of people in the USA. We pay more for avocados (in the USA and Mexico) because of the cartel tax on them (just an example). Most of the violent crime in Chicago, as one example, is attributable to the Sinaloa cartel which supplies most of the illegal narcotics to the area and which supplies managers of that distribution, collection of monies and prompts gang activities. In parts of the SW USA, such as Arizona, kidnappings are occurring as record-high rates ... due to Mexican cartel-related/inspired activities. We all impacted by the war and cartel activity, IMO.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Longford said:


> I think you're right. Not only do the war, terrorism, crime and criminal activities to the cartels affect Mexico and Mexicans, such things directly impact tens of millions of people in the USA. We pay more for avocados (in the USA and Mexico) because of the cartel tax on them (just an example). Most of the violent crime in Chicago, as one example, is attributable to the Sinaloa cartel which supplies most of the illegal narcotics to the area and which supplies managers of that distribution, collection of monies and prompts gang activities. In parts of the SW USA, such as Arizona, kidnappings are occurring as record-high rates ... due to Mexican cartel-related/inspired activities. We all impacted by the war and cartel activity, IMO.


I think it is the other way around
Because of the foreign high demand on such goods, those cartels have a job and then impacts start


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Do you remember about the opium wars?
Great economical interests at stake
Same thing is happening here


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Yes and yes. The guns are coming from the US, and the drugs are going to the US. Without the demand for narcotics in the US, no guns would be needs to fight for territories... Vicious cycle. So yes, I guess I do think the cartels should be left alone until both countries address the source of the problem. Until then, this "drug war" is a waste of everyone's time and money and a obviously a threat to everyone's safety.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

And I don't doubt that the guns coming into Mexico, from both the south and the north, are being done so by Mexican nationals. Order fulfillment by their countrymen. I wouldn't describe the war on drugs a "waste of everyone's tsime and money and obviously a threat to everyone's safety." Particularly not if the reference includes the war on drugs in Mexico, where the government has lost control of large areas of the country, and where the cartels/terrorists have branched-out so widely in ways other than selling nickle bags to elementary school children. Corruption is Mexico's No. 1 problem. The lack of an effective education system is probably tied at No. 1, or a close second. Educate the people and corruption will be minimized and in so many ways life will be better for most Mexicans, IMO. But let's not let the drug addicts off the hook, in the USA. They're personally responsible for the carnage in Mexico. Yes, I'm including the pot smokers. Addicts all.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

When we speculate as to the reason why many people in Mexico disbelieve federal government claims of success capturing/killing narco cartel chieftans, reading the article from which the below quote is taken sheds a bright light:

_Officials in Mexico say that they have killed a drug lord who was reported to have been shot dead three years ago._ 

Read more: BBC News - 'Long dead' Mexico drug lord Nazario Moreno killed


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Of course people disbelieve,or in the case of el chapo,one well known figure less,but they would have organised someone else to keep the money rolling in. Given the corruption in Mexican prisons it shouldn't take too long for him to be operating from a luxurious prison cell.


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## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> ....
> 
> Thanks to the US help? Who asked for their help? And if they were asked for help, why did it took 13 years to find the guy? ...


I think it should be obvious that the Mexican Government ask for help or it (the help) would not have happened, as you say, Mexico is not part of the USA. The help can not be forced on you. There may have been pleading and arm twisting somehow but at the end of the day if Mexico did not want it it would not have occurred. I don't think it should be something for you to be ashamed of. Now as to why it took 13 years probably many reasons maybe they did not ask for the help until the Neito administration or more probably in my opinion that corruption on many levels inside the Mexican police have helped keep the criminal a few steps ahead of the law. I do believe that the 5 million US dollar DEA bounty for information leading to his arrest may have helped. Recently maybe people on the inside or other opponents or rivals have been giving info to the DEA who then gave it to TRUSTED Mexican authorities and then to Mexican NAVY. Having TRUSTED non corrupt people is the biggest deal because intelligence info in the past may have been going in and then back out to the criminals. 

You can be proud of the fact that this happen because of these trustworthy people. 

There was many arrests of Sinaloa cartel people and weapons etc immediately prior to this recent event. 

El Chapo was taken into custody a stones throw from my Condo in Mazatlan. I saw the last Marina helicopter leave that day and I did not know that MARINA was the Mexican Navy until some friends in our condo told me later that day, that they had been woken up by helicopters and that El Chapo had been taken into custody. 

BTW Gary, I do not really want him in the USA either, you can have him. I am concerned that he may just find a way to further corrupt the society in the USA as he and others have already done in the USA and Mexico. I know that the vast majority of the Mexican people are good and maybe you are waking up and will figure this out before the people in the USA wake up to some of these problems. As far as El Chapo, I just think they ought to give him a fair trial (in about an hour),  convict him of multiple murder crimes, etc etc and then execute him. However, sadly, the bleeding heart liberals, the lawyers and the prison lobby would not approve of that. :frusty:


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I really really don’t think Mexican government ASKED for any help. In any case, I still am ashamed as a Mexican for the delay, on either side.
If they did asked for American help, they should have asked someone else, most probably the US government did not want to catch a drug supplier. Besides, It took the US government 10 years to catch, I should say find and kill, Osama. With a helicopter accident in the operation. I guess things are not like in the movies are they?
It’s funny to me, that people always talk about corruption in the Mexican pólice department, and in all levels of society, by "people" I mean not Mexicans. As if in their own Countries there was no corruption whatsoever, if that was the case, how come they know the words and the concept? How do they have their own slang wording for it? 
Must be that they sent some scouting agents to find out what was that strange thing that the Mexicans invented.
You say that we can have him? Joaquin Guzman I mean, but it was never on the table that the US would grant us permission to have him in the first place.
Execution of the guy is also not possible, I think we agreed that this is not the US


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> ...
> It’s funny to me, that people always talk about corruption in the Mexican pólice department, and in all levels of society, by "people" I mean not Mexicans. As if in their own Countries there was no corruption whatsoever, if that was the case, how come they know the words and the concept? How do they have their own slang wording for it?
> Must be that they sent some scouting agents to find out what was that strange thing that the Mexicans invented.
> ...


I don't believe that non-Mexicans discussing corruption in Mexico means that they think it doesn't happen elsewhere. That is just a different conversation. It is different in different countries. You are free to start a thread comparing corruption north and south of the border, or just discussing corruption north of the border. The latter would fall in La Chatarrería.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

> I really really don’t think Mexican government ASKED for any help.


I suspect most of the high-profile narco-terrorist arrests are due principally to assistance from the USA, which Mexico had requested. Probably moreso under the Calderon administration, but, if published reports are accurate ... the US Military and the Mexican Navy have a trusting relationship as compared to the rest of the Mexican military which is considered by many to be too corrupt to trust. i don't doubt Mexico has stumbled into some arrests on its own, but it simply does not have the intelligence resources to locate these people on its own without the sophistication of the USA intellegence community.



> It’s funny to me, that people always talk about corruption in the Mexican pólice department, and in all levels of society, by "people" I mean not Mexicans. As if in their own Countries there was no corruption whatsoever, if that was the case, how come they know the words and the concept? How do they have their own slang wording for it?


This is a forum the topic for which is Mexico. Want to discuss corruption in other countries? Fine. There's enough to go around. But maybe that discussion is more appropriate and offered in better context ... in the forums discussing those other countries.



> It took the US government 10 years to catch, I should say find and kill, Osama.


Catching someone moving through remote parts of several or more countries is, obviously, more difficult than catching a narco-terrorist who confines his activities/living to Mexico. Apples to oranges comparison. A rather shallow criticism, IMO.



> Execution of the guy is also not possible, I think we agreed that this is not the US


I think most if not all public opinion surveys conducted in Mexico illustrate widespread support for application of the death penalty in many instances. Including narco-terrorism, mass murders, kidnappings, etc. No, Mexico isn't the USa. Not even in the same league ... in many aspects. The opposition to the death penalty by the government is simply political maneuvering, insincere ... and talked about only when Mexicans like to brag about how much better they are than the USA. A silly exercise.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> […]
> I think most if not all public opinion surveys conducted in Mexico illustrate widespread support for application of the death penalty in many instances. Including narco-terrorism, mass murders, kidnappings, etc. No, Mexico isn't the USa. Not even in the same league ... in many aspects. The opposition to the death penalty by the government is simply political maneuvering, insincere ... and talked about only when Mexicans like to brag about how much better they are than the USA. A silly exercise.


Given all the problems with the implementation of the death penalty: racist application, mistakes by police and prosecutors, countries that have eliminated the death penalty ARE better than the US, at least in that regard.

I think there are lots of people the world would be better off without, but I don't trust the criminal justice system in any country to get it right when deciding who did what. It is hard to correct an error after a death penalty has been imposed.


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Plenty of Mexican citizens discuss the corruption in Mexico on a regular basis.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

emilybcruz said:


> Plenty of Mexican citizens discuss the corruption in Mexico on a regular basis.


Over the years I've learned that while Mexicans can be (and usually are) very critical of the problems Mexico faces, corruption among others, they aren't always happy to hear criticisms from outsiders, i.e., foreigners.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Over the years I've learned that while Mexicans can be (and usually are) very critical of the problems Mexico faces, corruption among others, they aren't always happy to hear criticisms from outsiders, i.e., foreigners.


I'd say this holds true for many groups of people - ranging from families to countries. There may be internal disagreements and tensions, but if an outsider starts critiquing, people often band together and present a united front in defense of their group.


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Over the years I've learned that while Mexicans can be (and usually are) very critical of the problems Mexico faces, corruption among others, they aren't always happy to hear criticisms from outsiders, i.e., foreigners.


Of course. And the same can be said of any country. There is corruption everywhere and someone will always be discussing it. So the idea that foreign nationals are the only ones bringing up corruption in Mexico isn't accurate. That's all I meant.


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