# dialectos del español



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm currently learning Spanish from an audio series which I think is mainly for Latin American Spanish - but that should be alright because it's the main castilian dialect used in Spain right?

Except I recently read that the south is mainly where there is some variation in dialect.

The place I will be going is 90% Malaga, and 10% (unlikely but possible) Valencia.

I just want to make sure...

Que quiero es hablar castellano ... correcto?

I don't want to get there and find out that my, by that time racking up probably 100+ hours of, Spanish learning is the wrong dialect...

Cheers!

Rich


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hola Rich. Que tal? 

I would suggest you avoid american spanish. Sorry didn't pick up earlier your course was Latin American. To be honest doesn't matter too much at the first stage but the use of verbs, some actual verbs, and the accent can all create problems later. 

Certainly in spain regional differences are there even without the complications of non castellano. But your first task is to get a grounding in "Oxford Spanish " and the simpler you keep that in my experience the better. Once you have that you can begin to communicate with spaniards, even if that amounts to ordering a coffee*, and the real learning process can begin.

You could also try and find a course where the dialogs and characters are based in say Malaga (or at least Andalucía). The advantage is that the conversations will include reference to local places, activities, etc. which hopefully you can include in your first conversations. I remember back in the 80s my bbc course was based in Cuenca. I remember the strange sensation of going there for the first time knowing that around the next corner Cloti would serve me a beer in her bar. I walked round the corner and there she was. Weird.

Have you tried finding the local Malaga and Valencia radio stations on the net? When I first started I was told to listen until I recognised 10 words - note 'gol, gol, gol, gol, goooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllll' does not count as 5 words 

* Always makes me laugh when you have your phrase already perfected and you make yourself as spanish as possible. The listener is very impressed and can only assume that you are fluent if not a native speaker. Sadly he/she doesn't stick to the script. You receive a torrent of words from which you can only decipher - Zapatero and mierda. The torrent clearly ends with a question. You nod smiling


----------



## Maddalena (Feb 6, 2010)

I remember studying Castellano at McGill University in Montreal..MANY years ago,as prep to moving to Tarifa. To expose us to different accents/dialects our professor had a South American presenter visit our class..we could barely understand a word..very different accent, as well as usage of words and ..really be careful here...slang. I would definitely advise studying Castellano, not SA or Mex or whatever.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Málaga and its surrounding areas have their own dialect - very clipped and abbreviated. It is Spanish, but sometimes its difficult to know what on earth they're saying lol!!! For example "Bwa" means buenas dias, "Porf" means porfavor - those are simple examples. You listen to a whole conversation/sentences with every other word an abbreviation it gets mighty confusing!!!

That said, if you learn to speak it correctly and ask them to speak slowly you should get to grips with it. In any case it seems most Spanish around here speak English - I find that quite hurtful when I've said something in my best Spanish, only to have them answer me in English - and to tell me to speak english please !!!!!!! I'm just about getting it now, I'mk okish with verb endings and sentence structures, I just need to build up my very limited vocabulary and my ability to speak without saying "um" after every couple of words!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Málaga and its surrounding areas have their own dialect - very clipped and abbreviated. It is Spanish, but sometimes its difficult to know what on earth they're saying lol!!! For example "Bwa" means buenas dias, "Porf" means porfavor - those are simple examples. You listen to a whole conversation/sentences with every other word an abbreviation it gets mighty confusing!!!
> 
> That said, if you learn to speak it correctly and ask them to speak slowly you should get to grips with it. In any case it seems most Spanish around here speak English - I find that quite hurtful when I've said something in my best Spanish, only to have them answer me in English - and to tell me to speak english please !!!!!!! I'm just about getting it now, I'mk okish with verb endings and sentence structures, I just need to build up my very limited vocabulary and my ability to speak without saying "um" after every couple of words!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


lol the first time I heard a true Andalucian speak I thought she was deaf!!

they seem to 'swallow' all the consonants!

they do still speak Castellano, though - it's just the accent that's hard to understand

I can now though - amazingly!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

In case you haven't seen them, here are some threads on the forum that have (possibly) interesting info for you. 

 As other people have said if I were you I'd steer clear of Latin American syle Spanish, although at a basic level it shouldn't matter too much. 

People’s experiences of learning Spanish and some recommended sites for learning on page 2
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...iving-spain/39430-my-spanish-lessons-lol.html

Valenciano
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/36265-pleasant-climate-just-one-language.html

Some recommendations here too
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/34499-speaking-spanish.html


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> lol the first time I heard a true Andalucian speak I thought she was deaf!!
> 
> they seem to 'swallow' all the consonants!
> 
> ...



Thats what we say here "they swallow their words"!!! My friends husband is Spanish and even when I ask him what something is in Spanish, I have trouble even repeating what he says cos I cant get the sounds - its soooo difficult!!

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

...... I will say something tho Ric, you reckon you're gonna learn Spanish in 6 months????????? I know I'm old and slow these days, but I've been here for 2 years and I'm nowhere near being fluent - I can just about get by for day to day things, but I could never hold a conversation. 

...... and then of course there's the "street" spanish that the kids talk - which is something else LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Even the Spanish dont understand it!

Jo xxx


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Yes in this part of Spain the accent is a difficult one to understand. I remember when i first came on holiday here and was proud that I could if they had any fresh orange juice in the cafe and was understood. However, i was only expecting a simple yes or no answer and was completely thrown when I the reply was incomprehensible (to me). Now I know there is no such thing as a simple yes or no answer here, lol. I still think though that you have to persevere no matter how embarrassing it becomes.
A Lot of Spanish people do speak English and some, when they hear you struggling, like to answer in English, perhaps because they know they can speak English better than you can speak Spanish, or they are trying to be helpful, or they want to practise English. But I think you just have to brazen it out and insist on speaking Spanish however they respond. Its hard but it gets easier. 

After nearly 7 years living here, i still have trouble though with the Andaluz accent, especially those from Seville.

Re South American Spanish, my son's father who is South American, said he couldnt understand anyone down here either when he first came here!

Caz.I


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I see zero reason to learn Latin-American Spanish when you have 1000s of castellano courses available. 

The andalú (!) dialect is strong but it is based on Castillian Spanish and not American Spanish. 

Stick to castellano and you will be fine.


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Have you tried finding the local Malaga and Valencia radio stations on the net? When I first started I was told to listen until I recognised 10 words - note 'gol, gol, gol, gol, goooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllll' does not count as 5 words
> 
> * Always makes me laugh when you have your phrase already perfected and you make yourself as spanish as possible. The listener is very impressed and can only assume that you are fluent if not a native speaker. Sadly he/she doesn't stick to the script. You receive a torrent of words from which you can only decipher - Zapatero and mierda. The torrent clearly ends with a question. You nod smiling


Hola!

I'll start casually looking for another course to pick-up when I've finnished this one which is used with Spanish accents.

Note that the course I'm doing IS traditional castellano - but is with latin-american accents (I think).

I can completely imagine that situation happening at first, where you say something, get a barrage back, and just kind of smile... "yeah..... yeeeaaaaahhhhhhh.. . ."



Pesky Wesky said:


> .


Cheeres Pesky



jojo said:


> ...... I will say something tho Ric, you reckon you're gonna learn Spanish in 6 months?????????


Just basic - not fluent. I can learn basic by August - definately. I've already spent approx 14 hours on this current course, and I haven't gathered momentum yet..  (haven't started listening to Spanish radio/TV and watching movies in Spanish etc - which I will start soon)

I have a friend who learnt portuguese in 6 months. He already knew some similiar languages and is somewhat of a "grammar expert." but never-the-less these things are doable when you really commit and focus.

One thing I am clear on though - it's not going to be a walk in the park. But that's alright, because most worth-while things provide a challenge.

Rich


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

Also, out of interest, anyone have any experience with the online magazine "Think Spanish"...

It's quite an expensive subscription so I probably won't do it unless someone has a heavy recommendation.

I just like the idea of something which encourages you to "think Spanish" not just speak it.

As in, assist in cultural integration and thinking in Spanish as well as just learning to speak words.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

RagsToRich said:


> Also, out of interest, anyone have any experience with the online magazine "Think Spanish"...
> 
> It's quite an expensive subscription so I probably won't do it unless someone has a heavy recommendation.
> 
> ...



I've not heard of it??? 

Thinking in Spanish is the key, but I'm not sure that its something we can do as an adult cos we already have the words imbedded in our brains (or maybe its just me!), but thats how kids learn - in fact there are a fair few words that my friends bilingual kids dont know in English!!

jo xxx


----------



## Maddalena (Feb 6, 2010)

All this reminds me of a chat I had with a Brit here in California..We were discussing language in general..I asked him a few questions about expressions I've picked up from my Britcoms (Only Fools and Horses, etc to which I am ADDICTED), such as "lovely jubbly"..He said that GB and the US are" 2 countries divided by a common language"..that pretty much sums up dialects and regional accents!


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

jojo said:


> I've not heard of it???
> 
> Thinking in Spanish is the key, but I'm not sure that its something we can do as an adult cos we already have the words imbedded in our brains (or maybe its just me!), but thats how kids learn - in fact there are a fair few words that my friends bilingual kids dont know in English!!
> 
> jo xxx


There is a term called "neuroplasticity" which describes the function of the brain's neural pathways to change - in other words the higher your neuroplasticity the easier it is to "reprogram" what's in your head.

Like you say Jojo, it's commonly accepted that neuroplasticity tends to decline with age, being very high in early infanthood, and being very low later on.

However, there's plenty of things you can do to up your neuroplasticity too. Regular study, eating certain foods and whatnot (check it on wikipedia).

But the one which I do a lot of and which studies have shown to increase neuroplasticity A LOT (there's a great google video on the subject) is mindfulness meditation (relaxation, focus on the breath, and practicing disattachment with respect to thoughts.)

And from another perspective...

All you really have to do is condition yourself to a few new habits. If you remind yourself to choose B rather than A every time you make the choice for the next week, you'll start choosing B automatically.

In my experience habits are actually I lot easier to create than people think. It doesn't take 3 weeks or 3 months. It just takes 1 week of solid commitment.

But I think I'll need about another 500 words (which is... approx 5-6 weeks off if I learn 100 words a week) in my Spanish vocab before I can consider complex stuff like putting spanish thoughts in my head 

I'm actually planning on spending a whole day next weekend immersed in Spanish (with little to no contact with English at all apart from the English reader on the audio course), I'm predicting that I'll have dreams FILLED with Spanish... and we'll see what happens the next day before I devise some more ideas...

Rich


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

RagsToRich said:


> There is a term called "neuroplasticity" which describes the function of the brain's neural pathways to change - in other words the higher your neuroplasticity the easier it is to "reprogram" what's in your head.
> 
> Like you say Jojo, it's commonly accepted that neuroplasticity tends to decline with age, being very high in early infanthood, and being very low later on.
> 
> ...


Right! Well I think I'll leave my neuroplasticity just as it is for now lol. If I remember rightly, this is how they help stroke victims isnt it. I'm learning slowly but surely. I still think you should come and listen and immerse yourself in the real thing before forging new pathways in your brain!!

jo xxxx


----------



## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

RagsToRich said:


> There is a term called "neuroplasticity" which describes the function of the brain's neural pathways to change - in other words the higher your neuroplasticity the easier it is to "reprogram" what's in your head.
> 
> Like you say Jojo, it's commonly accepted that neuroplasticity tends to decline with age, being very high in early infanthood, and being very low later on.
> 
> ...


This is why this forum is one of the best:clap2: Points of view intelligently & succinctly put, maybe not to agreeable to us all but eloquent as always. You all do it and as much as I appreciate the thought provoking and undoubtedly well researched posts I have to say there are times (quite a few actually) when I literally have no idea what you are talking about..........& this is one of those times (again).

My take on this subject?....... I think I'll stick with "Monkey see(hear), monkey do"



Doggy









p.s. I was going to use "Doggy" instead of "Monkey" but obviously, if you follow it through there was going to be a bit of a problem


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

owdoggy said:


> This is why this forum is one of the best:clap2: Points of view intelligently & succinctly put, maybe not to agreeable to us all but eloquent as always. You all do it and as much as I appreciate the thought provoking and undoubtedly well researched posts I have to say there are times (quite a few actually) when I literally have no idea what you are talking about..........& this is one of those times (again).
> 
> My take on this subject?....... I think I'll stick with "Monkey see(hear), monkey do"
> 
> ...



Doggie, you're lovely LOL!!!! You never fail to make me laugh out loud!!!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Maddalena (Feb 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Right! Well I think I'll leave my neuroplasticity just as it is for now lol. If I remember rightly, this is how they help stroke victims isnt it. I'm learning slowly but surely. I still think you should come and listen and immerse yourself in the real thing before forging new pathways in your brain!!
> 
> jo xxxx


HA!! You GO girl!!!


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

jojo said:


> Right! Well I think I'll leave my neuroplasticity just as it is for now lol. If I remember rightly, this is how they help stroke victims isnt it. I'm learning slowly but surely. I still think you should come and listen and immerse yourself in the real thing before forging new pathways in your brain!!
> 
> jo xxxx


Personal development is my forte Jojo, but each to their own. 

Either way, I will be speaking, reading and writing basic Spanish in 5 months time.

Interpreting/listening... well that could be the harder part which I only learn when I get there.


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Proud of your attitude. 

I know expats who are retired here who struggle to fill their day soberly who tell me that they are "Too busy to learn" Spanish ... but are not too busy to fill the bars from dawn to dusk. 

Winners do what losers won't comes to mind, sir


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

I started listening to Spanish radio yesterday.

Yesterday I listened to a sports station - that was IMPOSSIBLE. I caught the odd number, but that was it. They were speaking ridiculously fast though.

Today tried out a talk station from Madrid.

Was pleasently surprised by how much I understood 

I am certain that conversational Spanish is acheiveable in the time I have if I keep up with one hour a day minimum. By conversational I mean holding a conversation and not sounding like Espaneol Borat.

I'm really enjoying it to be honest. Haven't had much luck finding people to converse with yet. I've joined a website which looks cool but need to get a mic before I can use it. Also had a few brief words with Uni students who are studying Spanish and was dissapointed by how poor their spoken Spanish was (I'm not kidding, but then they were studying 3 different languages at once).


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I find listening to Spanish songs (pop) quite useful. They sing slower than they speak.

ETA - I've known some people speak and understand Spanish conversation in a few months without really trying. Others struggle after having had lessons and trying hard for years. I don't know what the reason for this is, it's not down to intelligence nor education.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> I find listening to Spanish songs (pop) quite useful. They sing slower than they speak.
> 
> ETA - I've known some people speak and understand Spanish conversation in a few months without really trying. Others struggle after having had lessons and trying hard for years. I don't know what the reason for this is, it's not down to intelligence nor education.


I totally agree about listening to Spanish pop music - although there is often some artistic license in phrasing, it's really useful for 'tuning your ear'


interestingly, a 'knack' for language is often linked to a musical ear


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> I find listening to Spanish songs (pop) quite useful. They sing slower than they speak.
> 
> ETA - I've known some people speak and understand Spanish conversation in a few months without really trying. Others struggle after having had lessons and trying hard for years. I don't know what the reason for this is, it's not down to intelligence nor education.



I like listening to Spanish songs - or artists who stick a bit of spanish in like Madonna, Alicia Keys (she's done a song with Alejandro half spanish half english). It definitely helps - I know its probably not accurate, but it helps stick words in my head better!!

I find that Spanish comes to me when I'm in a stressful situation. I had to go back and forth to hospital with my son recently and was totally amazed at not only how well I understood what they were saying to me but I spoke Spanish and was understood - I even had a bit of a row with the receptionist at the hospital !!??? 

Usually, I get tongue tied when I'm "in situ" or worse, start speaking french (WTF??) but think of all the things I could have said when its too late!! I always, always try to speak in Spanish tho - wherever I am - Always! In fact I've noticed the girls in Mercadona hide behind their checkouts when they see me coming, in case I start "chatting"!!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I totally agree about listening to Spanish pop music - although there is often some artistic license in phrasing, it's really useful for 'tuning your ear'
> 
> 
> interestingly, a 'knack' for language is often linked to a musical ear


Hi Xabia,

Funny you should mention this, I was the lead-guitarist in a local Sheffield band for over two years, during which time I practiced around 4 hours a day and gigged several times a month, as well as writing most of the band's music.

So you could say I have a musical ear... 

I can certainly understand how a "tuned focus" on hearing intonations and subtleties can be useful...

Thanks for the info Jim/Jojo. I'm a closet Shakira fan (shush) and I beleive you can get all of her songs in her native tounge  

Rich


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Rich you mentioned diet and learning earlier

Now in england I love a curry and real ale, in asturias jamon, wine, gambas, and garlic chicken, and costillas and .... Is there any chance for my brain 

Seriously if you could suggest any good source for material on diet in this connection that would be interesting. Am I right in thinking turmeric is good?


----------



## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I totally agree about listening to Spanish pop music - although there is often some artistic license in phrasing, it's really useful for 'tuning your ear'
> 
> 
> interestingly, a 'knack' for language is often linked to a musical ear


Really?.......... dunno what happened to me then



Doggy


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

owdoggy said:


> Really?.......... dunno what happened to me then
> 
> 
> 
> Doggy


well I did say _often_ not _always_


why not try just listening to Spanish language music & singing along?


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> well I did say _often_ not _always_
> 
> 
> why not try just listening to Spanish language music & singing along?


(ppppssst, has he got neighbours????? and what about poor mrs Doggy??) 

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> (ppppssst, has he got neighbours????? and what about poor mrs Doggy??)
> 
> Jo xxx


oops


sorry Mrs. Doggy


----------



## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> well I did say _often_ not _always_
> 
> 
> why not try just listening to Spanish language music & singing along?


I do sometimes and it would seem that I can la,la,la in an amazing number of different languages

One thing I find that does help is having the news on (they seem to be as pre-occupied with the weather as us Brits). There's always subtitles to clue you in to what's happening and after months of doing that we're starting to pick up more of what they say and, more importantly, get used to the speed they deliver it.

But each to his own eh ...... the trick is to keep banging away at it:clap2:



Doggy (who is back in Blighty at the moment and not a happy puppy)


----------



## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> (ppppssst, has he got neighbours????? and what about poor mrs Doggy??)
> 
> Jo xxx


Oi!! no!........... and anyway, she's used to it now after all these years



Doggy


----------



## RagsToRich (Feb 9, 2010)

I think my housemates have had just about all the Spanish they can handle.

To make things easier on them I'm now doing the excercises with headphones.

Of course I'm still speaking out the drills very loud and very clearly.

You can't have everything 

:ranger:

No se puede tiene todos.

Mis amigos, son personas muy buenas.

Rich


----------

