# Returning to South Africa



## Echotango (Jan 13, 2010)

For personal reasons, my daughter (23) and I want to return to Jo'berg possibly in a year.

So I know all the crime stuff, I don't need any advice about that. 

What I do want to know realistically is how much an older reliable runner (car but most likely a van of some sort) would be to start us off.

How much is a rental of safe accommodation, we hail from the Randburg area and would go back there. I have looked on the internet at rentals and I know in The Star its got to be more reasonable. 

I know that my daughter would probably get a job from here with her contacts, or at least the promise of one, but, I because am white, old and considered apartheid would most definitely luck out.

What I do for a living is Project Manage, I specialize in London in going into offices and sorting out all their systems, or I assist on larger projects. I contract and get good money. 

So I would most likely start a little catering business So what is the gen on that, It would probably be me and someone to help me clean up, that was not a director! I will also finish my training as a chocolatier before I get back. Am I going to have to register and have a director?? I heard things had improved for mushroom business'?

No, there will not be enough money to rent a commercial property and open a business, unless the rates are very reasonable. Money would have to go on equipment and to run it from home. 

Realistically with the rent, what is the least we could manage on to live per month, until we got up and running?

What is the situation with the electricity? I know you are still getting outtages, but has the situation improved since 2007/2008?

I need to talk to someone about how things are on the ground these days. When I left 8 years ago the economic situation was drastic and the crime had gone on so long I was a nervous wreck? The crime I could stand, if we catch a bullet, well we catch a bullet, but we can't eat grass! 

No, unfortunately we do not have any friends or family we can rely on when we get there, but we don't have any here. We are two very self reliant South African women.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

10-15 year old SUV (landy, Kia sportage, Early Nissan Xtrail, Bakkie, etc) = R40-70 000
2/3 bedroom SECURE cluster, townhouse in decent area (east/west rand and northern suburbs) = R6-7 000 /month plus about R1000-R1500 lights and water.
Electricity supply okay for now but winter is coming. Secondly the supply:demand ratio is finely balanced at the moment, and major loss of supply (power station repairs, maintenance, breakdown) will lead to blackouts. Lastly, there is a very real problem with supply of coal to the power stations at present so this also may lead to outages. 

I would say that realistically you and your daughter would need about R20-25 000/ month depending on your level of "survival", travel needs and expenses, medical aid, food, etc, etc... maybe less??

Approx MINIMUMS:
Rent R6000
Utilities R1000
Phones/internet/cell R1000
Petrol (unleaded) R7.86 litre
Groceries R2500
Medical aid R2500 EACH!
Car insurance: R500
Mnet: R500

Plus the rest!


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

South Africa Guide: Cost of Living, What is the cost of living in South Africa?: No doubt you would like to tr


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

The above link is either misinformed or outdated.

e.g. utilities... R400........
Mnet alone costs that.
I do not know anyone who pays less than R1000 for water & lights.

The rental prices are not for the areas you want to reside in (Randburg etc)


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Consultant*



Echotango said:


> I know that my daughter would probably get a job from here with her contacts, or at least the promise of one, but, I because am white, old and considered apartheid would most definitely luck out.


Hello

Before writing yourself off due to age etc. Have you considered working as a Project Lead Consultant. I'm sure that in Joburg there are contracts for people with your skill set. You might want to try contacting some of the recruiting agencies in Joburg and see what they say.

There is supposedly a "shortage" of skilled people in S.A. Especially at your level of expertise. I would check that out and keep an open mind about it, Something could show up in that line of work.

The R12000.00 per month mentioned by the other bloggers is quite a shock. That's a lot of money to pay per month. How do the less educated folks (of all colors) get by with expenses like that. It sounds kinda steep.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Dannyboy, they dont, thats the point.
rentals in the subeconomuc areas are very low, theunemployed live in squatter camps where they dont pay rent and electricity is stolen from the street lights
SA has a very high waste factor, so the scrap business provides some income, but in all my years there I never saw anyone starve to death in SA.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Unreal*



Daxk said:


> Dannyboy, they dont, thats the point.
> rentals in the subeconomuc areas are very low, theunemployed live in squatter camps where they dont pay rent and electricity is stolen from the street lights
> SA has a very high waste factor, so the scrap business provides some income, but in all my years there I never saw anyone starve to death in SA.


Do the churches feed them? How do they survive?

Here is an interesting article from the WashingtonPost regarding Unemployment (of the masses) in South Africa. Check it out if you have the time.
Recession Worsens South Africa's Chronic Unemployment - washingtonpost.com

This is scary stuff. S.Africa is attracting the rest of Africa like a magnet as they think there are Jobs For ALL in S.A.
How long can the country keep allowing in uneducated illegals who won't find work when even the local citizens can't find work. Surely it'll reach a point where the masses go wild in Kayelitsha and Soweto and the other mushrooming townships and then ravage and burn the middle class and upper class areas to the ground. 
How long can the middle class (black or white) continue to pay for the Massive and growing "developing world's biggest welfare program".

I'd also like to return to S.A more than anything else, especially to be with my family in Cape Town, but it seems really dicey. 
To make matters worse in the I.T (Computer Industry) they are starting to outsource a lot of the work to India (as they have done in the U.S) which means LESS jobs for S.Africans and LESS tax going into the ANC coffers to supposedly support their Welfare Program and buying binges of Mercedes, Private jets and wotnot.
It's a mess.


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## TEA (Jan 23, 2010)

DannyBoy said:


> Do the churches feed them? How do they survive?
> 
> Here is an interesting article from the WashingtonPost regarding Unemployment (of the masses) in South Africa. Check it out if you have the time.
> Recession Worsens South Africa's Chronic Unemployment - washingtonpost.com
> ...


Would also love to go 'home'!!!! If I thought there was a remote chance of SA having a future, I would have been there yesterday.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

The recession has hit every country badly, I do not think one should just look at SA at having a bad time...in the EU the UK has been faring worst.


Ecotango, we are also moving back to SA, not that the government is making us feel very welcome for coming back, but nevermind. 


Do you need to buy the type of car quoted?



I wish you all of the best, we have to pay to bring back a car that we took away from SA.... 


Hope all goes very well for you


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## dgjamison (Jul 6, 2009)

zambezi.king said:


> 10-15 year old SUV (landy, Kia sportage, Early Nissan Xtrail, Bakkie, etc) = R40-70 000
> 2/3 bedroom SECURE cluster, townhouse in decent area (east/west rand and northern suburbs) = R6-7 000 /month plus about R1000-R1500 lights and water.
> Electricity supply okay for now but winter is coming. Secondly the supply:demand ratio is finely balanced at the moment, and major loss of supply (power station repairs, maintenance, breakdown) will lead to blackouts. Lastly, there is a very real problem with supply of coal to the power stations at present so this also may lead to outages.
> 
> ...


Hi can you tell me how R20-25,000 equates in £ sterling, thank you?


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## dgjamison (Jul 6, 2009)

I am a little ignorant on th politics of SA , I was just so delighted when Nelson Mandella got into power and i thought things would get better for the people of south africa, but from the bits I have read and seen on TV this does not seem to be the case. I am so dissappoined, I lived in a country torn apart by bitterness and hatred, Thank god things seem a lot better,(but we still have a long way to go) I thought the same would happen in SA. I am now so wary of all governments and sick of corruption I have no faith anymore. I pray SA will prosper and both white and black will get along in the future, for the sake of the country and prosperity Re: tourism, \and the children who are the future but also trust will finally come to all sections of the community, until then there will always be dissatisfaction, I have lived with it for over 35 years, and until both sides of a community are recoginsed there will never be peace. Equality is the only answer to a happy and safe future, with jobs and opportunity for all.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

R20-25 000 is about 1400 - 1800 pounds a month. Although you can't just multiply by the exchange rate (14:1). Your money goes a lot further in the UK, or at least it did when I left (2006).


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

dgjamison said:


> I am a little ignorant on th politics of SA , I was just so delighted when Nelson Mandella got into power and i thought things would get better for the people of south africa, but from the bits I have read and seen on TV this does not seem to be the case. I am so dissappoined, I lived in a country torn apart by bitterness and hatred, Thank god things seem a lot better,(but we still have a long way to go) I thought the same would happen in SA. I am now so wary of all governments and sick of corruption I have no faith anymore. I pray SA will prosper and both white and black will get along in the future, for the sake of the country and prosperity Re: tourism, \and the children who are the future but also trust will finally come to all sections of the community, until then there will always be dissatisfaction, I have lived with it for over 35 years, and until both sides of a community are recoginsed there will never be peace. Equality is the only answer to a happy and safe future, with jobs and opportunity for all.


Without getting into the whole apartheid, black/white arguement it is safe to say that all the new SA has accomplished is it has created a very small black middle class and an obscenely corrupt black upper class (not all are corrupt but it runs deep). The corruption and mismanagement of the country is slowing killing and chance of this place not becoming another banana republic... anyway time to put the head back in the sand pretent everything is going to be okay.


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## Echotango (Jan 13, 2010)

*Currency converter*



dgjamison said:


> Hi can you tell me how R20-25,000 equates in £ sterling, thank you?


Hi 

R20 000 is £1671
R25 000 is £1839 

About the same as here. One of my daughters friends earns R10 000 a month, this is good money there, and the amounts quoted I feel are not the bottom line. I feel it is doable, particulary if I start a business as is my intention. Thanks for the discussion folks.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Echotango said:


> Hi
> 
> R20 000 is £1671
> R25 000 is £1839
> ...


R10 000 a month is NOT good money.
You will starve if you try to make ends meet on this amount. If you want to live in a good secure area then a 2 bed place with lights and water and phone is going to cost a MINIMUM OF R6500 - R7000 per month in Johannesburg.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

echotango, that 10k a month is before tax?
if so thats less R986 according to the tax tables.
then theres medical insurance.


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## hocico (Jul 24, 2013)

*I wish*

Having not been in South Africa since the late 80's I have been have a longing lately to return even if just for a holiday.

I would love to return permanantly but as I cant see it every recovering and having commitments here it is unlikely.


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## joburgnewbie (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi. I've just moved to JHB to the area (Randburg) you used to stay in. Here is what I'm paying.

Rent R5800 for a stand alone flat (2 beds and bathrooms, lounge, kitchen) with swimming pool and decent sized garden (excluding electricity : I'm told to expect around R800 per month).

For medical aid I pay R1300 per month through discovery and that covers all hospital visits (private) but only R7000.00 day to day benefit a year. 

Cars are expensive. A second hand car financed costs roughly R 2000 per R100 000. an entry level car in reasonable condition will probably cost close to R100 000. Car insurance for such a car would be a further R500 per month roughly. Petrol is R13.00 per liter.

I would say you could live a sufficient lifestyle without suffering too much on around R15k per month but you would need around R20k to be comfortable. But I've met very few people that only make this or less. Even telemarketers earn close to that in JHB it seems. 

My view on the recession is that while South Africa is crawling along, the economy in JHB relatively speaking is still quite robust.


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

Africa is the future, do ask any investment analyst, companies are looking for places to manufacture and distribute their high end goods. Hisense the Chinese electronics manufacturer has just opened a new factory near Atlantis in Cape Town, they've injected R350 million into the project and created 1200 jobs. Are they stupid or just dumb? Neither, the Chinese do not take risks with their money. What makes you think then we have no future here? After 20 years in the UK I came back and are encouraging my UK educated children back home, there is no future in Europe. Come home, your skills are worth their weight in gold and you will prosper, most whites with skills do.


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