# Visa question: bringing girlfriend with me to france as family member on talent passport



## dhr108

Hi everyone

I've just found this forum after searing google with visa questions and it seems like a nice community. I've recently been offered a job in france as a researcher. This means (I'm pretty sure) that I will have a talent passport under the researcher category no problem. However I would like to move with my girlfriend, and ideally she'd be able to work while in France.

One option I've been told is a possibility is to get a civil partnership (equivalent to a PACS), and this, plus living together for 1 year + with my girlfriend, will meet the requirements for her to be awarded a talent passport, family member visa. However other sources I've read say that only a marriage certificate is sufficient. Does anyone have any further insight into this?

Another option I've been told is the long stay tourist visa, however we don't have the savings required for that. I've also been told that for me to write a letter saying I would finacially support her would require a civil parntership/pacs as well, so to avoid this may require on her parents saying they will support her - which seems a bit dubious. Also I understand she wouldn't be able to work or open a bank account on this visa?

What do you think would be the best approach to take? We'd be open to getting a civil partnership if it's what's required for us to live together. 
Thanks


----------



## Crabtree

If you are not in a civil union or married then a girlfriend does not count as a family member assuming that she is not an EU citizen. She would not be able to work unless she gets a job and then the employer would have to show why they want to employ a non EU citizen or she would have to get a business visa to allow her to start her own business.
If you get "hitched" in the UK this would make things simple


----------



## Bevdeforges

A simple statement of support isn't going to do much good these days. You basically have to be in a recognized (by your home country) civil partnership - in which case the obligation to support is part of the "family law" here in France. The "ideal" situation, if you don't want to get married would actually be for your girlfriend to find a job in the general area of where you will be working, with a separate work related visa in her own name. That's not that easy, though, and depends enormously on what line of work she's in, whether she speaks much/any French, the salary level, etc. 

And, depending on where she is from, be careful you don't get into the issue of needing a "family reunification" visa - which may require you to live in France for 18 months before you can "sponsor" her. (If she has a "dependent" visa with you and arrives at the same time you do, then no problem - but if she will be following you to France, you may run into the 18 month thing). Take a look here for details: Family reunification - Ofii


----------



## BackinFrance

Perhaps take a look at Campus France with a view to your girlfriend getting a student visa as those visas allow for some work in France.


----------



## dhr108

Thanks for all your replies everyone. We've spoken between us and we don't really want to get a civil partnership or marriage just for a visa. Bev, you said that a statement of support wouldn't to much good? Does that only apply to a letter from me or would that also apply to a letter from her Mum? From looking elsewhere it seems like our best option might be for her to apply for a tourist visa and have her Mum write a letter saying she promises to fund her, alongside supporting bank statements. Would this be accepted?


----------



## Bevdeforges

A "tourist visa" is usually the 90 day "Schengen visa" that they stamp in someone's passport. She wouldn't need any sort of statement of support for that. But she would have to leave France within 90 days (and could spend no more than 90 days in France in any rotating 180 day period).

If you are talking about a "visitor" visa - then she would need to have some reason for wanting to stay in France for longer than 90 days that does not involve working to support herself while she is here. A visitor visa is used for retirees (with a pension) or for someone taking a sabbatical year from an academic post. I'm not sure getting a visitor visa to keep a "close friend" company is going to work.


----------



## dhr108

Thanks for your reply. Yeah I mean the visitor visa. So do you think it would not be possible? On the france visa website it says the long-stay visa can be issued for tourism - which I thought would be applicable in my girlfriends case. Do you know of any other options we might have? She has skills as an English teacher and as a writer so I think her getting a job in France will be quite hard.


----------



## Crabtree

Is she a published writer-can she write articles about her experiences moving and living in France -could she also start a business as an English teacher either on line or offering specialist courses such as "business english"? Does she have qualifications such as a degree in English /Creative Writing/Journalism Could she get a TEFL certificate? Once you are established in France during one of the periods when she is over she could visit the local Chambres de Commerce and get (very often free) advice about setting up a business utilising such skills as above.
Frankly I think you are trying to make the system fit around you and your girlfriend when in fact you and your girlfriend are going to have to fit around the system.A visa for tourism is what it is for-ie an extended holiday not to move in with your boyfriend In any event she is going to have to show what resources she has to tide her over.
There is no reason why ultimately she cannot be with you permanently but you have to think inside the box. ie you have to get the marriage or civil union or she sorts out sorting out a business (with a business plan) and perhaps using her writing skills to earn some money to support herself.She would be a member of the "profession liberale" but to get here she needs to fit in with the rules


----------



## dhr108

Ok yeah I see what you are saying. The reason I was more trying to make it fit around us is that a) my job offer is only a fixed term contract for ~2 years, so we're not seeking to stay in France permanently, and b) we're weighing it up against other offers. So you think the best options is for her to come over for 90 days initially, maybe get a TEFL qualification or set up a freelance writing business, and then apply for a business visa later once it is set up. 

My understanding of the business visa though is that the business is required to be making at least French minimum wage a month (~1300 euros), which she will be able to do but as she'd be setting it up from scratch (she's currently in teaching) may not happen until towards the end of my fixed term contract, when I'd be planning to leave France anyway.

Thanks everyone for your comments they are really helpful


----------



## EuroTrash

One thing to think about is, what is she going to do with all her time if she's in France and can't work?
I believe that the visa application will invite her to explain her motivation for applying for the visa and what she plans to do.
Wanting to be with her man is lovely of course, but she will need to find something to fill her time while you're working, and it would probably help if she could explain what this will be. Does she have a project she can talk about? Otherwise, and especially if the applicant has no funds or income of their own, they might see a danger that the person might be tempted to pick up work locally under the radar.



dhr108 said:


> maybe get a TEFL qualification or set up a freelance writing business, and then apply for a business visa later once it is set up.


That sounds a bit cart before horse - she would need a visa that allows her to set up a business, _before_ she could complete the formalities to set up a business... and you can't start earning money until your business is set up (or in the process, at least).


----------



## dhr108

The plan was for her to come for a year and a half, sit in a cafe and write a novel. So do you think the visitor visa may be possible from this angle?

I'm a bit confused - so is there a visa allowing someone to come to france and start a business? My understanding of that possibility was that she'd need to start a freelance business in the UK, then once it was making 1300 euros a month she'd be eligible for a self-employed visa in France?


----------



## EuroTrash

If she's already an established writer or at least had things published, and she actually has an outline for her novel, then I think she should certainly give this as her motivation. Although what do I know, I never applied for a visa, but to me it sounds like a reason that the visa people will understand.



dhr108 said:


> My understanding of that possibility was that she'd need to start a freelance business in the UK, then once it was making 1300 euros a month she'd be eligible for a self-employed visa in France?


She would need to apply for the appropriate type of working visa, and whether or not the visa is granted would basically depend on how convincing her business plan for France is. It could well be an advantage to show that you are already successfully running a similar business in the UK, but that isn't absolutely necessary and it doesn't of itself mean that you'll automatically get the visa because of course there's no guarantee that the existing business model will work equally well in France. She would need to draw up a somewhat different business plan for a French business structure, taking into account the higher cotisations and the potentially different target market and conventions.
For instance, a British copywriter working from France for UK clients and charging exactly the same rates as a copywriter working in the UK, would make significantly less profit because of the higher overheads in France. So you either charge correspondingly higher rates and risk losing clients to competitors, or you take the hit and earn less, or you change your business model and start working for French clients who will pay the going rate in France..
(Ask me how I know this...)


----------



## BackinFrance

Is it a novel that needs to be written in France or that promotes France in some way? That's the important question for a visa.


----------



## dhr108

Based on your suggestion earlier BackinFrance, we had a look at campus france courses and she is now thinking about doing a 1 year french course which would provide the visa. One thing I was wondering about now: It seems there are two student visa, VLS-TS which gives you the right to work and possibly extend the visa, and VLS-T which does not. Obviously her getting VLS-TS would be preferable. I can;t see anywhere on the french-visas website which mentions this distinction or gives the option to apply for one or the other. Does anyone know what is going on here? Is it decided by the French authorities or is there a way to choose which one you apply for?

Thanks


----------



## BackinFrance

I believe it depends on the course you choose. Maybe dig a bit deeper into the Campus France website.


----------



## Bevdeforges

VLS-TS isn't really a "kind" of visa. It's a trait shared by several visa categories - which basically means that you don't have to apply for a "titre de séjour" (i.e. a separate residence permit) your first year in France. The validated visa serves as your residence permit.

The VLS-T is a long-stay visa that serves as a "temporary" residence permit. Often these visas are not renewable past their initial 4 to 12 month validity period. (Depends on the course the student is following.)

This page from Campus France explains the difference between the TS and the T designation for student visas. The "student" Temporary Long Term Visa, or VLS-T| Campus France I think the only other type of visa that has this sort of distinction is the "visiteur" visa. Which designation you get depends on what you indicate on your visa form for the purpose and the duration of your stay in France.


----------



## dhr108

Bevdeforges said:


> Which designation you get depends on what you indicate on your visa form for the purpose and the duration of your stay in France.


I'm a bit confused by this, because on the link you sent and this Long Term Visa used as Residence Permit or VLS-TS | Campus France, it says both visas are for 4-12 months? And surely the purpose for both is "student" (going from the france-visa form options)?


----------



## Bevdeforges

Basically, the VLS-T is for those who need a visa to attend a single program to study for a period of 4 to 12 months. The VLS-TS visa is for those admitted to a multi-year program or a higher education program that qualifies the person to go on to another degree (say, a masters program). Being considered a "student" can apply to a one time cooking school program or a language and culture program (think, the Sorbonne language and culture courses). Or, you can come to France to start a university degree program, which will take 2 or 3 years. Renewing the VLS-TS visa/residence permit depends on successfully completing the first year of the program and advancing to the second and subsequent years. Or moving from, say, an initial university program to the masters or doctoral program.


----------

