# Metric or imperial?



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

For me I learned the metric system in the early 70's and a far simpler system. It appears that the Philippines adopted the metric system in the late 70's 1979 to be exact so some 40 plus years ago.

Buying anything here can be a nightmare, timber or steel for example. So I ask for a price for 100mm x 50mm x 3mm SHS, (rectangular steel tube) @ 6M long,,,, good luck to buy 8Metres long. 
After the explanations and a tape measure it turns out that what I want is 2" x 4" x 1/4. No I explain I don't 1/4 I want 3mm wall thickness, yes sir that is 1/4....... go figure, when I went to school under the imperial system 1/4 was a quarter of an inch or metric now 6,26 mm. and 1/8 to me is one eight of an inch (3.13mm) here is actually 1.5mm equals 1/8.

Bens brother and cousin came here the other day to measure a few tings and I gave them one if my tape measures,,,,, I watched them look at it and talk to each other and then to Ben, Ben says to me they can't read the tape measure, My response was it's a metric tape measure and what's the problem? They don't understand the numbers they told me,,,,,,, So I went and found a metric and imperial tape measure and gave them that and then the confusion really set in, They don't understand all the numbers and my simple response was??????? And we are going to trust them to read plans and build the projects? I have a laser level and they never saw one and don't know the value, water pipes.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Not really a laughing matter Mark, very sad from my perspective.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Yes. England and America have screwed up by not changing to the metric system  and by they are big in trade they make a lot of unnecesary problens by some products are made not in metric system.
Wood are normaly NOT in metric system.
Products as pipes and metal things as e g bolts there are such BOTH in metric and inch. On top of that there are a lot of different threadings, which make it can be a nightmare to find things suiting each other. Extra much if having to do with Spainards  because spareparts ment for same thing looked DIFFERENT each delivery!!! So we had to test what they did suit too, back when I were employee in a business importing from Spain, tools to ,metal industry, which normaly produce at MICROmillimeter exactness...
Perhaps Filipinos have got "manana culture" from Spain


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Not really a laughing matter Mark, very sad from my perspective.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


I wish everything was metric because most of the vehicles are metric and who wants to purchase extra tools because of the various sizes.

Most of these skilled workers haven't finished their schooling so not a big surprise, especially in our area, they use ropes as measurements and those cheap tape measures found locally that read in "Inches" and MM or centimeters. What would be amazing is if they can speak and understand English and bring their own tools.

And then it's a little hard to expect so much when their pay is so low.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

And the blame lies where?


Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Lunkan, the UK has been metric only since the 1970s. The confusion in the Philippines comes from the American influence. 

Steve, everything in the Philippines is sold as undersized. I was looking at some gyprock board the other day and it had 9mm printed all over it but it was being sold as 1/2 inch.😂


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> And the blame lies where?
> 
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Many of the kids growing up end up helping to feed their families, very poor people, something like 70% of the population is poor and so no money for school uniforms, tests, other required monies, food or school projects.

Many can't read or write, I found this out several times not only with workers but also with in-laws that work as electricians, masonry, and carpenters.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Yeah, like the architect we employed to put new ceilings here 3 years ago. He told the workers the sheets (6mm hardiflex) were 2400 x 1200 and the ceiling battens were set for those sizes and when the sheets came? 8ft x 4 ft and each one had to be cut on two sides, a fiasco and we never employed him or his fools again.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Gary D said:


> the UK has been metric only since the 1970s. The confusion in the Philippines comes from the American influence.


Yes. I ment UK have had big influences in general in the world, much at metal things.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> And the blame lies where?


 I blaim mainly Spain and the church,
/Church for sabotaging logic thinking. 
/There were class society - rulers, common people followers and slaves - before Spain made it a colony, but Spain made it worse by favorice some making the gap worse. Including making LAWS protecting the RICH AGAINST the poor, instead of the opposite. Several of these laws are valid still!!!  
NOT talking about bribes as it seem in a case where 2 (4 by 2 suppporting) rich young Filipinos stabbed a middlle aged American to death ON VIDEO, found guilty - hard to avoid with that video - but got only punnishment the time they had been locked in waiting for the court case!!!
But there are LAWS so NOT needing to bribe e g rich criminals can BUY themselves FREE by paying the victim's family to take back the filing of case. As have happened with a scammer case I know of. 
And much worse is some serious crimes are NOT AUTOMATICLINGLY investigated as in our home countries by the "justice" system, victims have to pay a FEE to file a case!!! So as common when poor cant afford it, the rich criminals arent even investigated!!! (I dont remember which crimes, I just remember some law students discussed the problem some years ago.)

/Is mandatory school clothes coming from USA? I guess so. That make it much harder for poor familiies to manage to send kids to school and often its few years if any.
So many never realy get a chance 😭 Some of them are street smart anyway. E g I tought a squatter daughter Filipina some basic business things, which she understood fast  and used to improve her tiny business. 

/An other thing is "lose face". I dont know origin. 
Much harder to learn things when its seen as bad to ask when not knowing!
It make an other problem too. When something need to be explained - and understood - in steps to understand later steps, then it become a problem when many say they have understood when they havent. And it make much unnecesary mess too when saying work instructions are understood but isnt.

/Perhaps its a self asteem thingy often too, because when someone BELIEVE something is to hard to understand for themselves, then give up trying so end up not understanding.
E g a Filipina had thought since young school age she cant understand math, but I convinced her to try, which ended up with she CAN count basic percent now...


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

It seems pretty simple to me. They sell a mix just like in the US. You just have to be smart enough to know which you need. I have tools for both and just try wrenches until I find one that fits. I guess the guys at my hardware store are above average. I just ask for things in my English terms and they find the part that works be it English or metric. I like having both available. It would be a shame to only have metric. For building materials I just take what I can get. It is only when people try to be smart about it that trouble happens.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Not about being a smarty amcan, if I get a price for xyz and when it's delivered it's abc and wrong? That's why 
I always sight the product I am quoted on before I place the order, An architect that we employed made plenty of mistakes between metric and imperial sizes in Hardiflex, timber sizes and that was on his head, I don't want to follow nor need to make the same mistakes. It needs to be standardized no different to the push going on with chargers for laptops and phones etc. Golly I have 5 or 6 different charging types for my toys and it's silly. A little like 110 and 220vA/C, 50 and 60 cycles, the copper companies had a hand in that I'm sure, sell more copper.
We all get the drift.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

An add on, the classic is spanners and socket sets. Metric, A/F and Whitworth, let's not forget SAE. Why? Because the left hand wants to make more money than the right hand. Why not one system and size? Think of all the money we spent on our tools to play the game.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> An add on, the classic is spanners and socket sets. Metric, A/F and Whitworth, let's not forget SAE. Why? Because the left hand wants to make more money than the right hand. Why not one system and size? Think of all the money we spent on our tools to play the game.


 I think it depend of some/a big country is stubborn and dont want to change to the metric system, which other countries understood many years ago is better


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

I agree you need to look before you buy. 
As for standards they will never really be possible. There is too much change in the world and we cannot see into the future as to what we will need. 
After all any measure measurement is based on some engineered item that we all have to follow. A foot or a meter can not be determined by a person but is told to us based on something sitting somewhere. 
Things are flawed like our measurement of time and the calendars out there. 
If I do a job I buy enough from the same lot to attempt to avoid manufacturing variations. Here especially no two parts seem identical.


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

I reject any attempt to say one is better than the other. That is part of the reason things stay different. Making it a political or issue of pride. Saying another country is wrong is a good way to make sure your point of view is rejected.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Disagree amcan, it's all about money and egos. Honestly? The sun rises and sets every day as does the moon and is a known quantitative value, no different to the price of gold or the air we all breath, the water we drink and for some make coffee with. 
There are world wide standards with basic principals but twist it a bit and? Many people make money and sell to the gullible that accept because they have little or few brains and ride with the sheep, things are slowly changing but it's going to take decades to get all on the same page. One system, far more economical world wide.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

amcan13 said:


> I reject any attempt to say one is better than the other. That is part of the reason things stay different. Making it a political or issue of pride. Saying another country is wrong is a good way to make sure your point of view is rejected.


 Well. European countries HAD other than metric messure system but CHANGED to it by metric system IS better  by all different levels are based at 10s which make it much easier to count...

(Although it would have been better if all counting would have been based at 8s because that would suit computers.)


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

From what I remember before leaving the US in 2010, nearly all the cars manufactured were using metric and the main reason is most of our parts are either from China or Mexico, so I think everything will end up metric.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hope so Mark.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

And then there's Philips verses the improved pozi-drive, guess which one the Philippines uses.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Excuse my old ignorance Gary, what do you mean by pozi drive?
BTW my steel was delivered yesterday and the flat bar, 25mm x 3 mm ordered and assured turned up 23mm x 2mm, sh#t happens here and while it will work as it's only bracing is not the point, many of your previous posts over the years show your experience with undersized products. The old saying? Buyer beware.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Excuse my old ignorance Gary, what do you mean by pozi drive?
> BTW my steel was delivered yesterday and the flat bar, 25mm x 3 mm ordered and assured turned up 23mm x 2mm, sh#t happens here and while it will work as it's only bracing is not the point, many of your previous posts over the years show your experience with undersized products. The old saying? Buyer beware.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Pozi-driv is an improved cross point which in Europe took over from philips quite early on. It has a deeper well so is less likely to skip under load.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

What Is Pozidriv? How Does It Differ From A Phillips Drive?


What is Pozidriv? There are an seemingly overwhelming amount of drive styles in the industry. Here's what you need to know about the Pozidriv.



www.albanycountyfasteners.com





Sounds like Torx is better than pozidriv?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Howard_Z said:


> What Is Pozidriv? How Does It Differ From A Phillips Drive?
> 
> 
> What is Pozidriv? There are an seemingly overwhelming amount of drive styles in the industry. Here's what you need to know about the Pozidriv.
> ...


Yes but rarely seen outside industry.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

My 2000 Volkswagen New Beetle TDI - it has many torx screws.
I had to buy a set of Torx screw drivers and also torx bits for the ratchet tool.
Of course I no longer own the Volkswagen


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Howard_Z said:


> My 2000 Volkswagen New Beetle TDI - it has many torx screws.
> I had to buy a set of Torx screw drivers and also torx bits for the ratchet tool.
> Of course I no longer own the Volkswagen


When I said industry I was thinking mainly cars. It's rare to see them else where. I guess they are more suited to power tools.


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## Dten Cfive (8 mo ago)

Howard_Z said:


> What Is Pozidriv? How Does It Differ From A Phillips Drive?
> 
> 
> What is Pozidriv? There are an seemingly overwhelming amount of drive styles in the industry. Here's what you need to know about the Pozidriv.
> ...


And pretty popular in the U.S.


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## Dten Cfive (8 mo ago)

I learned standard and metric growing up and in the military. Never learned Imperial because isn't that a British measurement system. One U.S. pint does not equal one British Imperial pint of lager. don't know what the Aussies use.


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