# Wealth and Thai families



## wesmant

Never look down on personal wealth in the 3rd world country. The country may not have social security system in place to guarantee living standard to everyone, but to some people, opportunity is clear in the midst of the mess of these country.

In addition to it, eastern community is not like western, where each individual would be proud of their achievements, including the pride not to live on your parents money.

So, i would simply say, in the asian community, if you see young chap and very flashy, he/she is living their parent's fortune!


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## stednick

Without knowing for certain, I would assume they get their money from the same place as the "rich elites" in other countries; born into it (mommy & daddy), politics, movie stars, rock stars, business, sports, crime, and, occasionally, hard work.


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## wesmant

From business kingdom. Many of them are natural resource businessmen, be it trading or eplorators.

You won't be surprise that there are more numbers of people with huge assets from 3rd world country than from EU/US if you rank the top 100 or 1000


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## TomC

It's the other side of the coin of cheap labor. If you're the big business owner, you reap the benefits of cheap labor, thus, the Porsche's, Mercedes, etc.. My guesstimate is 90% of the wealth goes to 10% of the elite class or maybe even less. You're screwed if you're a working class. Even a Thai masseur I had, wanted to start her own business. To be her own boss. As there is no way to make enough money working for someone else. That's why the Toyota and the Western Digital of the world descended on Thailand to scoop up some cheap labor. Another way of looking at it is 90% of the wealth in the country goes to Bangkok. That's why the high property prices. Just a guess.


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## Song_Si

TomC - many countries would be similar in the eg 90/10 split.
I saw this article yesterday - how's that for a statistic? 



> *Walmart heirs have as much wealth as the bottom 41 percent of Americans combined*
> The heirs to the Walmart fortune have as much wealth as almost half of Americans, a new analysis has found. The study, conducted by Josh Bivens at the Economic Policy Institute, found that the value of the Walton family fortune grew to 89.5 billion in 2010, which is equal to the worth of 41.5 percent of the poorest American families,
> source


and this



> The number and wealth of Asian millionaires surpassed Europe last year for the first time . . .
> Bankers estimate there are about 50,000 high net worth individuals (HNWIs) in Thailand who are estimated to control about 40 percent of money invested in Thai capital markets.
> source


Last year Forbes issued a list of the Richest 40 people in Thailand - here - topped with US$7.4 billion - gives an indication of the businesses/industries they have made their money from. 

and these figures are from 2009, but I don't expect the percentages would have changed much in the last three years



> The top 20% own 69% of the country's assets while the bottom 20% own only 1%.
> 42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accounts holding more than 10 million baht. They make up only 0.09% of all bank accounts in the country. In other words, less than 1% of the people own nearly half of the country's savings.
> On income distribution, the top 20% enjoy more than 50% of the gross domestic product while the bottom 20% only 4%.
> source


It won't be rice farmers buying those flash new cars. 

Locally (Chanthaburi) - and I think it may have been similar in Phuket in the last 20 years, look for old photos and so much was in rubber and cashew plantations there; low-return horticulture land being sold up for hotels, housing developments. A million baht-plus will maybe buy one rai of good land here, but still not near Phuket prices. 

'New money' for new cars? How many rai to the Porsche?


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## Song_Si

^ last night walked past a local shoe store, run by young guy and his wife; a year ago he got a 'new' old Yamaha 400, pride and joy all polished up outside the shop, bought for 60-80K at a guess; last night - a new, delivered yesterday, Yamaha FZ-1 1000cc, just 2.4km on the odo; looked online they're 650,000-upwards. It's the new car season here, red plates galore, with annual fruit crops being sold all for a single payment, maybe the family farm did extra-well. I doubt the Porsche Cayenne we saw will ever carry much fruit in the back. 
One of the places I cycle past (durian farm) bought two new Harleys last year, will check to see if they've added a third. 
I upgraded my bicycle in 2011, and may buy a new helmet with the 2012 farm profits.


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## stednick

*Thai Rice Farming*

Here is a link to an interesting article concerning the migration of the Thai youth away from the rice farms to the cities, the money and the technology.

June 6, 2012 New York Times: "Thai Youth Seek a Fortune Away From the Farm" 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/05/w...ek-a-fortune-off-the-farm.html?pagewanted=all

Article contains considerable amount of data, both current and historic concerning rice farming in Thailand. Good reading for background information.

On a light note: It's to bad the article does not answer the question "How fast can you plow a hectare of rice paddy with a Porsche Cayenne?"


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## Dumbo

If you keep buying new bicycles at that rate you be classed as one rich Kiwi in Thailand


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## Song_Si

^ it's cassava harvest in next two weeks, looking at prices my new helmet may have to wait. 
Bicycles - my current one isn't flash enough to impress; moved out of the world of alloy/carbon-fibre road race bikes now, sold mine and bought a cheaper mountainbike; strong cycling community here, and some v expensive machinery, many in the 100-150k range. My partner once mentioned what my bike had cost when we lived on the farm - but they simply didn't believe 7kg on wheels could cost as much as several motorbikes.

^^ the Cayenne on the farm . . . I'd like to see that . . . unsure if it has changed but 3 years ago I understand a 'farm pickup' could only be two-door, and that the 'kingcab' style 4-door pickups were classed as luxury and didn't qualify as farm vehicles; different duty/taxes applied. 

Re the rice farming - in many cases families spend every baht on getting children a good education so they don't have to be rice farmers. Get a good job in the city and ideally send money home to repay the favour.


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## stednick

*Working for Money to Send Home*



Song_Si said:


> Re the rice farming - in many cases families spend every baht on getting children a good education so they don't have to be rice farmers. Get a good job in the city and ideally send money home to repay the favour.


*Sending money home.* Our company hired a "maid" for upkeep of our offices and warehouse spaces. Daughter of an upcountry rice farmer. She was sent to Bangkok for the express purpose of earning money to send home. We paid her the current or prevailing rate for maid services at the time, a few thousand baht per month. For ten plus hours of work per day, six days per week. 

This basically unschooled and uneducated, upcountry girl, walked @ 5 kilometers each way, every day, between our company spaces and her rooming house. Regardless of the weather, pouring rain or incessant sun (the 10-15 baht motorcycle taxi fee was far "too much money" to splurge on herself). Lived off of a few handfuls of rice every day (the company would frequently reward our employees with lunch - team building - at least once a week, sometimes more). I do believe this was the only time she ate more that rice - although I could be wrong. She shared a single room in a boarding house with four other upcountry girls sent to Bangkok to earn money. She worked very well, although not very hard - not necessary. We had a small place, only a dozen or so rooms with some factory space. So her sixty some hours per week were far more than she needed to keep the spaces clean. 

This girl sent ALL her money home less her actual living expenses. I believe she sent @ 75% of her pay/funds home to her parents. (As ALL good Thai daughters do.) Read into this what you will. Far more the norm than we want to believe, or acknowledge. 

The highlight of her 2-3 year career with us was when she got permission from her parents to purchase a pairs of jeans for herself for her birthday present to herself.


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## Newforestcat

At the very top of the wealth and class pyramid in Thailand, there are only a handful of families. Without being unfair most of them must have done one or two shady deals in the past 50 years. The connections are worth more than wealth in my opinion. I can see how the old-money still continue to be rolling in it right from their humble or noble beginnings in feudal Thailand. Of course, properties, land, rentals and money in the banks do increase in values. The new-money, well, I am sure with good brains and opportunities, some must have earned their wealth, while the other have got theirs from combinations of good and dodgy deals.
Most wealthy Thais have one thing in common, they like to embrace the wealth and to live a high live despite how they have obtained their wealth.

I am not writing the next paragraphs out of spite or bitterness, the fact is I do feel I have got everything I need, that makes me feel rich most of the time. I am always happy when people get ' lucky' through sheer honest hard work and intelligence. But the quiet acceptance of corruptions in Thailand is like cancer and drives me up the ceiling. It makes a large group of corruped officials continue to be corrupted and encaurages even some lowest level civil servants to do the same. These people are very loud about what they have been up to at work. Sometimes, I almost choke on my noodles listening to what they brag about. It is nothing wrong to aspire to be richer and have nice things in life. Unfortunately, you should not use briberies and corruptions as means to realise your get-rich-quick scheme.

I once was having my noodles with my brother when I overheard a coulples in their late 20s and early 30s talking about going to stay at a five star hotel in Hua Hin. Well, I can guess how much roughly they get from their jobs each month, bearing in mind, my local areas are relatively poor. I don't think they come from rich family either, or I would have known them (because most better-off people like to show off their wealth, I would have recognised them). 

Most young people in Thailand live off their parents and can continue to do so until the end if they are very wealthy. There is even a verb and a noun for this kind of tradition which comes from the Chinese same as bribing officials. If you don't believe me, you can look into trades with China in the old days as early as the Georgian and early Victorian periods. The Chinese Emperor would only authorise trades with any countries who brought him a lot of gifts. I think both Thais and Chinese still spend millions each year on ' gifts'. I think most Chinese and Thais of Chinese origins mainly work extremely hard in order to provide for the next generations. It is a very noble thought. 

Heard of Taksin Shinawatra? His son got his first porsche at 17 or 18. There was a rumour in our school that he crashed it shortly after. I did see some smashed up barriers near our school, unsure if it was his doing. Also there was another rumour, His dad gave a huge cheque to one of the top two universities in Thailand. The uni then started a new faculty so the son could study there otherwise he would have to study abroad or at private university. I won't tell you what I think. LOL
By the way, my family is not rich. I just happened to get in top school and uni by sheer hard work. A lot of my friends are very rich but some are poor, too (we have been friends since meeting at that school). The school runs often looked like Goodwood festival of Speed. I did enjoy drooling over lovely fast cars! I do love fast cars but I am not selling my house to buy an Aston Martin in Thailand anytime soon. I dread to think how the maintenance bills will kill my weak heart and shorten my hubby's life!  

Anyway, there are extremely rich people in Thailand. How they have earned it, I am not sure apart from a few well-known families. Based of what I have read in OK magazines which my salon stocks, most of the rich who talk about their lives in the magazines have done more than a few dirty deals in their lives. Sadly, the fact that they talk about the deals makes me wonder if they really think they are acceptable. It worries me because there are tons of brainless kids who read this kind of rubbish. I am worried that they will think of doing anything just to be wealthy. 

I guess most successful business brains in this centuray possibly have done some questionable deals. I remember a colleague told me that his partner worked for One of the biggest UK banks and how well the bank had done that year due to shady deals in Africa. 

I possibly should get off my high horse now.


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## Song_Si

one less common route to wealth locally is sapphire mining; the Ploy Waen area was once the heart of the world's sapphire trade, and Chanthaburi remains a major gemstone trading centre. 
This is a hard-work approach to gaining wealth.
At present I'm aware of 12 sapphire mining operations within 4km of our home, they are digging over - and at far greater depths - the areas previously mined by manual methods - esp for the "Mekong Whiskey" yellow sapphires. Seven days a week and every hour of daylight using tracked diggers, down to depths of 15m+ when the old diggings were likely to be less than 3m. 
Landowners lease their land to the miners (either for a set fee per rai or a lower fee and profit-share) who re-instate it after they've finished; apart from all the diesel used it is environmentally-friendly in that the earth is simply dug up, water-blasted and through a centrifuge-type machine to separate stones, wet earth pumped back afterwards and replanted in fruit trees. 
There are many new houses being built on the proceeds. More money in sapphires than in bananas and rubber trees which are commonly grown in the area. And three years after the only clue the area was mined is that it is in most cases perfectly flat as the earth was pumped back in semi-liquid form. 

















1. A handful of rough sapphire from Chanthaburi's Khao Ploi Waen mines. 2 "Mekong Whiskey" yellow sapphires from Bang Kha Cha near Ploy Waen, Chanthaburi.


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## Newforestcat

What Song_Si said reminded me of a guy who got extremely wealthy from selling Chantaburi gems on eBay! Lucky for him, he got on eBay early enough. Finding something or comparing similar things on eBay is like studying for a big exam which I always hate with all my passion. I was an eBay virgin up until early this year when I felt that I needed to get my brother a second job or he was going to pull his hair out when he paid his employees and other expense every month. 

I still cannot say that I am a convert. Ebay sometimes makes me feel like I am stealing something from a stranger. I am more keen on Fairtrade not just quantity.

Back to the topic, is not it amazing that with all the advanced technologies, tours of outer space for the extremely geeky and /or priviledged, we are still fascinated by stones. I am one of them, but I am always a bit of cavewoman.


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## Song_Si

a few baht in buying one of these, but not practical for everyday farm use:










2012 Rolls-Royce Phantom



> Rolls Royce opens first showroom in Thailand
> *
> Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 - British luxury carmaker Rolls Royce on Wednesday announced that it has opened its first showroom in Bangkok, Thailand.*
> 
> For the moment a total of seven vehicles can be displayed over the two floors, with a lounge which allows customers to configure their car using colour, wood and leather samples from the manufacturing plant at Goodwood, West Sussex, England.
> 
> The number of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars showrooms in the Asia Pacific region (including China) is currently 27. In 2011, China became the leading sales region for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars worldwide for the first time, narrowly beating the United States to the top spot.


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## Glen10

I'm not trying to defend the Walton family, but that can't be right. First it says that they(Waltons) have as much as almost half of the population, and the it says as much as 41% of the POOREST families. That saying two very different things. Where is the start of the poorest for who did this study? Is it 5% or 1%. If it was 41% of the total population, that would be 120 million people(population/people). That would only be $700 each. If you made that a Family of four of course that would be 2800$ gross wealth. Even the homeless people who live under a bridge get that much+ per month plus food stamps EACH MONTH from the government. oops--this was meant for your first reply--wrong quote above.


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## Song_Si

^ Hi - agree it could well be misleading: it took it to mean cash savings/money in the bank, not earnings. so the homeless people you mention would be in there with little in cash savings.
Tried to find more info on this report but no in-depth figures.
Didn't intend to mis-lead! 

This from LA Times note it uses families/households not individuals



> The Waltons' value -- $89.5 billion in 2010 – is equal to the worth of the 41.5% of families at the lower end of the income ladder, according to an analysis by Josh Bivens of the Economic Policy Institute. That comes out to 48.8 million households.


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## Glen10

Song_Si said:


> ^ Hi - agree it could well be misleading: it took it to mean cash savings/money in the bank, not earnings. so the homeless people you mention would be in there with little in cash savings.
> Tried to find more info on this report but no in-depth figures.
> Didn't intend to mis-lead!
> 
> This from LA Times note it uses families/households not individuals


No biggie. Didn't think YOU were trying to mislead. But I'm not so sure of Mr. Bivens. I don't trust the LA Times either. Or the people who own it. Papers are just tools to inform, and just as often misinform the masses to create a mindset in an effort to carry out ones agenda.
Just for the fun of it....household is vague. Is it a household of one, or a household of five? If the household are not individuals(even if it were individuals, as well)), it has to be inaccurate and misleading. If it's a family, how many do they consider a family? I consider a family to be at least three people. One isn't a family. I consider two to be a couple.
Ok. They say 41.5% of families at the lower end of the economic ladder. If we can agree that a family isn't one or two people, we can set a family to be at least three people and use that minimum number as a start for calculation. 3x 48.8 million would be half the population of the country. Half the population of the country couldn't be 41% of the families. How much would the other 59% add up to? Use the minimum of 3 again and you've got 180 million. More than the population of the country and the singles and couples aren't included yet.
It's just a bunch of jive to create discontent of the masses, especially at a time of economic hardships. It uses deceit to stirs up emotions of envy, jealousy and discontent, along with resentment toward the rich. It's class warfare, bro. This is a tool to use people and pull them on your side to make an atmosphere for a power-grab of your group. It's basic Machiavellian strategy. 
To sum it up, I'll have to say that someone will have to show me the math. Until then it's just a bunch of double-talk and hogwash.
I wouldn't trust Joshua Bivens or the LA Times(NY Times, Chicago Times, or any other Times) as far as I could throw them.


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## Glen10

I tried to edit the above but had a problem. The 59% would be more than 180 million; it would be 225 million, for a total of 375 million. Total population is aprx 300 million.
Here's how i came to that-I'll round it for simplicity: 40% of fams is 50 mil families, so 60% is 75 mil. remember too that we're using 3 for a family. I think the real number on average is about 4.3. But never-the-less, it doesn't stack up w/3.


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