# Think Twice Before Relocating to PI



## Maxx62

As I mentioned in a some of my earlier postings, my wife and I had been planning to retire to the Philippines for several years, and then we finally took the big plunge and built our house near Cebu in 2013. 

Flash forward to the present. My wife has an adult brother in his fifties who has decided that he owns the plot of land where my wife and I built our house, even though my wife has a deed for the property with her name on it. Apparently my wife's brother is basing his claim upon an alleged conversation he claims he had with his own father, more than thirty years ago, in which the father promised to give him all of the land now comprising our mutual compound.

I doubt that such a conversation ever took place, because in 1998, my father-in-law had a document titled Deed of Donation drawn up, in which it is explicitly spelled out which of his children will inherit which plot of land within the compound, and each of the children, including my brother-in-law are assigned a specific plot. Nowhere in the Deed of Donation does it state that my wife's brother will inherit the entire compound.

So, first this guy tried to tell my wife and I that we needed to pay him 4.25 million Php for the land we built our house upon, because in his view, the land belonged to him. However, after we told him that he was full of "S" and that we would never pay him money for land that did not belong to him, then he started to engage in all sorts of harassing activities against my wife and I. My wife's own brother is literally treating his own sister like a piece of garbage, because he falsley believes that we owe him 4.25 Php. 

So, after we told him that we wouldn't pay him, then he started telling me to get out of the compound, because in his view, I'm not really a part of the family, and only family can life within the walls of the compound. Things have escalated to the point where my wife's brother has taken to carrying a gun as he is walking around near our house, and he is also doing other things such as burning his household trash near our area, playing loud music before dawn, and vandalizing our property.

A Westerner would probably think, no problem, just call the police and tell them he's carrying a gun, problem solved. Nope, call the police and you'll be lucky if they show up anytime within the next two hours. Also, in my case when they finally did show up, they asked my brother-in-law if he owned any guns, he said no, and then the police left without searching his house.

Also, someone from a Western country might think, no problem, I've got an official deed with my wife's name on it, none of her relatives can try and take the land away from her. Official documents mean absolutely nothing to a half-witted idiot who has managed to convince themselves that they own something which they do not. You can show an idiot like that all of the official paperwork and court orders you want, and it won't mean anything to them, because in their view, you are not a part of their family, they are the oldest son, and therefore they should get everything.

Additionally, a lot of Westerners think that they can avoid conflict by constantly turning the other cheek, and sometimes that does work, but in many other instances, constantly turning the other cheek only serves to embolden a bully, and in reality, you, as a foreigner have virtually no rights in the Philippines, and if a conflict escalates to violence, you will be the one they throw in jail, because the perception is that you have money. 

At this point I've returned to the United States for the final time, and as soon as my wife can sell her plot to another relative outside her immediate family, then she will be departing soon.

If you're thinking about retiring in the Philippines, I recommend that you do not do it, as you will always be seen as a push over cash cow, and you will never have enough money to buy everyone's friendship. It's a nice place to occasionally visit, but do not try to settle down here, because most likely you will be sorry.


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## Hey_Joe

Maxx62 said:


> Apparently my wife's brother is basing his claim upon an alleged conversation he claims he had with his own father, more than thirty years ago, in which the father promised to give him all of the land now comprising our mutual compound.


Wife should consult a Philippine Attorney.

Philippine law requires the donation of immovable property (i.e. a parcel of land) and movable property (i.e. jewelry) worth more than Php 5,000.00 to be in writing and notarized in certain cases. Consequently, certain donations *cannot be made orally, otherwise they are not legally binding under the law**. *
SOURCE: Legal Tree


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## M.C.A.

Wise words from Maxx and sorry to see you go, hopefully we'll here from you and your experience getting resettled in the US, no easy task it's expensive. 

I've experienced similar treatment and if my wife passes before me I'll have to relocate to somewhere else even though I'm a squatter LOL. People like this are full of greed and they never get enough money. you owe them as a foreigner and what took you so long to pay up. 

So when my time comes I'll relocate and deal with it, I'll either go live with my oldest son in Manila and check out city life for a change or I and my youngest son will move to another area like Calamba Laguna and I'll find a new woman and become a squatter again; like Maxx mentions you follow the rules and you still end up fighting the family laws/violent confrontations or get ready to hire a lawyer and spend years in litigation, no thanks.

Trouble is I don't think you can run away from those that want your goods, I've ignored our In-laws and neighbors and I focus on my own family now because our entire neighborhood is like a gang and they all share in parties and gatherings so since we don't do that anymore (ends up being my costly party) so we are pretty much hated, I can't think of any other words other than venomous hate and envy.


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## art1946

When I lived there I rented an apartment for myself and my wife to be. Her bother and his GF just moved into the other bedroom without asking me for permission. I paid the rent, electric and bottled water. He drank the water like a fish. When I said something to my GF about it she got mad. It never changes with the Filipino people. We always own them something as a foreigner.

art


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## Lunkan

Even with some have no problem with Filipino family, this is an extra rreason tto settle far from wifes family, and NOT building at family land.


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## grahamw57

_'and in reality, you, as a foreigner have virtually no rights in the Philippines', _

Now that's the crux of the matter.

Bear that in mind, Keep a low profile at all times, and only 'invest' what you can afford to lose.

Sit back and relax.


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## Shadowman

Think Twice Before Starting a Relationship With Any Filipina Who Has a Large Family


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## sinsinbad

I am back in States, but lived off and on in the Philippines over 5 years.

Married for a total of 20 years/divorced three Filipinas in the US. My mistake bringing them here. America is great, but more choices here, and they soon learn that they can get a younger, richer man very easily here.

Back to the subject, it is far better to learn from others experiences than repeat them. Here are some that I have learned:

1. Live at least one island away from family.
2. As someone already said, don't invest anymore that you can afford to lose.
3. Be ready to walk away at anytime.
4. The "Justice" system is bias towards Filipinos--it is your fault for being there.
5. You will ALWAYS come after their family.
6. Rent and never buy unless it is a condo that you can put in your name.

If these don't apply to you, that is good, but I know, seen, and heard of more disasters in these relationships than successes.


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## Shadowman

sinsinbad said:


> /divorced three Filipinas in the US. My mistake bringing them here. America is great, but more choices here, and they soon learn that they can get a younger, richer man very easily here.


The only reason to bring a Filipina to the US is if you need to live in the US. 

If you have the option to live in the PH, it's an easy decision.


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## Gary D

There may be a deed of donation but you need to subdivide the title so there's no question over who owns the land. If the brother in law wants payment for the land enter into negotiations over him paying for the house you have built as to take possession of the land he would need to pay you what it cost you to build it.


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## Tukaram

Don't feel picked on - they do it to their own family as well. Anyone with money is a target. He does not believe he owns the land, he just believes he can get a paycheck.

My sister in law was OFW for 16 years. She built on family land, but kept it small. When the land was about to be seized because no one paid taxes for a decade, she paid it up to date and got everything put in her name. After that she built a big house and business on the land. Then some stray cousin showed up saying he had claim to the land. It was just a money grab, as your brother in law was trying to do. My sister in law showed him the legal documents, and told where to shove it. He crawled back under his rock... for now... 

I agree with not building on family land, and do not build (or buy) anything you are not willing to walk away from. My wife asks why we rent, and I tell her I prefer the freedom of renting. If the neighborhood goes to crap, I can easily move.


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## bigpearl

I hear you with renting as a winner Tim but as a tenant you have limited control, ie, if you love the place and have reasonable rent and want to stay there for a long time all good but when the lease is up for renewal and the owner tells you I have sold the property and can't renew the lease vs you have cr*ppy neighbours and over the noise? You move when the lease is up.
Our (well mine but agreed to) choice was to research well 3 plus years, internet, boots on the ground and found what we wanted, though 10/15 minutes north of where we were looking had the benefits of fewer visits from family, purchased the land in the better half's name, buildings and improvements, fiscal responsibilities in my name , clear and un feted control over renovations/extensions/ ability to sell the lease/ pass the lease to my heirs etc etc etc.

Long term lease and property purchase. To date around 6.1 M, agent advised that the rental of this property would be 30 to 35K per month when we purchased we spent around 200K to bring it now up to the spent 6.1M and the agent has advised a new 40K per month rental figure with improvements.
So over a 25 year lease it's costing me/us 244K P/A or 20,333 pesos per month and the duration of the 50 years of lease you can halve those figures. Not that I'll be around but it is my children's beach house in another country for the next 46 years. Caretakers are inexpensive and appreciate opportunity and location.
We thought about flipping this place recently when the smaller vacant lot next door recently sold for 13M+ so at least doubling our money or more,,,,,,, better half's argument? Where are we going to go, 1,2 or 3 years more research? To find this? He won in the end. 

Though you can't lease property from your Spouse I'm sure, I know deals can be done with a brother/sister, cousin or trusted friend with 50 or 100K to secure the deal, 50 years down the track his/her heirs own the property and in the mean time the rent was very cheap otherwise go buy a condo that will be torn down in 50 years with no recompense. Gone.

Yes back to living close to family? Maybe but not too close, we have not seen a relative here for a year or more, works for me and I can see them when I want, wheels and independence. A jeepny ride or two and a couple of tricycles rides makes us too far away for most and those that want to sponge got the short shift years ago. The Philippines can be harsh but hey, look at all countries, here? Set the boundaries from the go get, don't waver.

To the OP, I hear the problems and pain but being a member of your wife family for xyz years what are her other siblings/owners of this family compound saying? Where is her support through this tumultuous time? While we don't know the sordid details, nor need to it's sad to come to your retirement to face such an issue. Go collar him severely and no quarter.
10K fixes many things here but only an observation. A decent slapping works too. Pull your head in sport.

As always sorry for the long winded rant and I dearly hope the OP sorts this out post haste.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> When I lived there I rented an apartment for myself and my wife to be. Her bother and his GF just moved into the other bedroom without asking me for permission. I paid the rent, electric and bottled water. He drank the water like a fish. When I said something to my GF about it she got mad.  It never changes with the Filipino people. We always own them something as a foreigner.
> 
> art


Buy a water dispenser and those huge bottles are only 20 pesos or if delivered 25 pesos each, bottled water costs would add up quickly. If you need special water keep that for yourself but everyone else will drink from the Hot & Cold dispenser.

There's ways to save money here.


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## Tukaram

art1946 said:


> When I lived there I rented an apartment for myself and my wife to be. Her bother and his GF just moved into the other bedroom without asking me for permission. I paid the rent, electric and bottled water. He drank the water like a fish. When I said something to my GF about it she got mad. It never changes with the Filipino people. We always own them something as a foreigner.
> 
> art


I would have kicked all 3 of them out. Or left them there, and moved out myself. I do not play that way, and if my girlfriend allowed it - she would be an ex-girlfriend.


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## art1946

hey Tukaram, 

I agree with you. I think most filipino women have no love for the foreigner. they only want the good life and money. If they don't get that then they find another foreigner. I brought one to the USA. cost me a total of $5,000. I bought a place for her here also and when it wasn't her way she would not talk to me. She even cheated on me with my neighbor. I actually threw her clothes out on the driveway and told her to leave. 

Art


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> hey Tukaram,
> 
> I agree with you. I think most filipino women have no love for the foreigner. they only want the good life and money. If they don't get that then they find another foreigner. I brought one to the USA. cost me a total of $5,000. I bought a place for her here also and when it wasn't her way she would not talk to me. She even cheated on me with my neighbor. I actually threw her clothes out on the driveway and told her to leave.
> 
> Art


Best to marry and stay live in the Philippines Art, what happened to you has also to Philippine men (gained US citizenship) who serve in the Military, this is what I experienced before I retired from the US Navy, our Quality Assurance (senior enlisted) nearly every Philippine man who had a Filipino wife was in a divorce or already divorced or the wife had traded up with another active duty man to keep the benefits.

You've got all the time in the world to sell your house/car/life long pile of junk and prepare to retire here, it appears you haven't given up on the lady so why make it harder on yourself by owning property in the US and having to deal with that.... for sure don't bring her back to the US.


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## art1946

Hey Mark,

You said it all. Not much more I can say. I agree a man should never bring the Filipino lady to the USA. Better to stay in the Philippines.

art


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## Tiz

M.C.A. said:


> Best to marry and stay live in the Philippines Art,


Why marry ?
Best to stay single.


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## Sactown2015

sinsinbad said:


> I am back in States, but lived off and on in the Philippines over 5 years.
> 
> Married for a total of 20 years/divorced three Filipinas in the US. My mistake bringing them here. America is great, but more choices here, and they soon learn that they can get a younger, richer man very easily here.
> 
> Back to the subject, it is far better to learn from others experiences than repeat them. Here are some that I have learned:
> 
> 1. Live at least one island away from family.
> 2. As someone already said, don't invest anymore that you can afford to lose.
> 3. Be ready to walk away at anytime.
> 4. The "Justice" system is bias towards Filipinos--it is your fault for being there.
> 5. You will ALWAYS come after their family.
> 6. Rent and never buy unless it is a condo that you can put in your name.
> 
> If these don't apply to you, that is good, but I know, seen, and heard of more disasters in these relationships than successes.


Thank you for your advice. Now this article has made me think twice about going back there to retire.
Maybe it is a blessing to be single for my part & from the way I see it, I'm better off vacationing there.


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## Sactown2015

Tiz said:


> Why marry ?
> Best to stay single.


Agreed 1000%. Sometimes women are a headache


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## Lunkan

Sactown2015 said:


> Agreed 1000%. Sometimes women are a headache


 Yes. But some are much nice too.

E g the only one foreign husband I believe complain at at his Filipina wife is she is a terrible car driver 🤣


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## Riker54

Shadowman said:


> Think Twice Before Starting a Relationship With Any Filipina Who Has a Large Family


You got that right. My wifes family been a burden. 3 sisters and mom and dad been hell on me. 
I wanna go back USA even homeless in USA sound ok.


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## M.C.A.

Riker54 said:


> You got that right. My wifes family been a burden. 3 sisters and mom and dad been hell on me.
> I wanna go back USA even homeless in USA sound ok.


I've heard that from some Expats, they'd rather be homeless but back in the US then stuck in a quagmire. Hang in there, I have spoken to many in your position and you're not alone.

Trouble is the wife, always put the blame where it justly belongs, if we are having a hard time, expenses always requested and free loaders, it's because they allow it happen, they contribute to the stress.


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## ragbone13

Riker54 said:


> You got that right. My wifes family been a burden. 3 sisters and mom and dad been hell on me.
> I wanna go back USA even homeless in USA sound ok.


It all depends on the individual. My asawa sides with me against he family (6 sisters and 2 brothers - parents are deceased) every time. Family gets one chance and ONLY one chance with me. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


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## art1946

Most women are like a leech that crawls on a person and will such blood from them. I have worked in remodeling for over 35 years and 99% of couples that have been married along time the wife was the boss. The husband was the mellow type guy. I would sat at the table writing up a contract and the woman would make all the decisions. The guy would always agree with her. That is why I am divorced. I never kissed their Axx! I was lucky when I filed for a divorced from my Filipino wife in the USA. I had things on her and she didn't want them brought up. I warned her if she caused me any problems or tried to get me for my money she would regret it. She knew I MEANT IT!

Art


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## Sactown2015

Lunkan said:


> Yes. But some are much nice too.
> 
> E g the only one foreign husband I believe complain at at his Filipina wife is she is a terrible car driver 🤣


Oh well, I guess it's a matter of luck. Yeah! I've heard of some success stories out there. Hmmmm...try & try I guess for me🙂🙂🙂


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## M.C.A.

Sactown2015 said:


> Oh well, I guess it's a matter of luck. Yeah! I've heard of some success stories out there. Hmmmm...try & try I guess for me🙂🙂🙂


Sactown, there are just as many success stories and living alone isn't always so much fun either, dating gets old and so does hitting the clubs. My kids and now grand kids have given me much joy.


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## Sactown2015

M.C.A. said:


> Sactown, there are just as many success stories and living alone isn't always so much fun either, dating gets old and so does hitting the clubs. My kids and now grand kids have given me much joy.


Congratulations! I'm happy for you. Maybe if things improve, I'll probably get back into the social life. But for now, I'll lay low as to give my heart a break


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## Lunkan

Sactown2015 said:


> Lunkan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. But some are much nice too.
> 
> E g the only one foreign husband I believe complain at at his Filipina wife is she is a terrible car driver 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well, I guess it's a matter of luck. Yeah! I've heard of some success stories out there. Hmmmm...try & try I guess for me🙂🙂🙂
Click to expand...

 No. As with most things, success depend mainly of skill. Many men fail when chosing wife by they "think with wrong head"  Many men dont show any capacitty of judge personality at all... And some as e g two of my nephews dont listen to me 🤣 so they fail, while one of my sisters asked me and got ovr 40 yearr happy marriage.

There is even science research concerning suiting chance from personality coming from effects of sibbing position, who have any CHANCE at all to suit. (Onlly child and eldest sibbling CANT suit to same as themself nor each other. Youngest to youngesst can be possible but not sso good.) It dont need to be BLOOD sibblings, its about who they grew up with living AS sibblings, which complicate it in countris as Phils where many live together with cousins, and in western countries many are "plasric sibblings" (=Parents get new partner and by that their kids move together). 

Some count as science, some dont, zodiacs and chinese birth yeats about suiting chances. 

Then its about how basic personalities has DEVELOPED. I claim basic personality can NEVER change to an other basic persoaöity, but they can develop diferent good/bad. 

And then there is the question if the good ones are strong enough to stand presure from their family  if the family is bad needing to disagree with.


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## Sactown2015

Lunkan said:


> No. As with most things, success depend mainly of skill. Many men fail when chosing wife by they "think with wrong head"  Many men dont show any capacitty of judge personality at all... And some as e g two of my nephews dont listen to me 🤣 so they fail, while one of my sisters asked me and got ovr 40 yearr happy marriage.
> 
> There is even science research concerning suiting chance from personality coming from effects of sibbing position, who have any CHANCE at all to suit. (Onlly child and eldest sibbling CANT suit to same as themself nor each other. Youngest to youngesst can be possible but not sso good.) It dont need to be BLOOD sibblings, its about who they grew up with living AS sibblings, which complicate it in countris as Phils where many live together with cousins, and in western countries many are "plasric sibblings" (=Parents get new partner and by that their kids move together).
> 
> Some count as science, some dont, zodiacs and chinese birth yeats about suiting chances.
> 
> Then its about how basic personalities has DEVELOPED. I claim basic personality can NEVER change to an other basic persoaöity, but they can develop diferent good/bad.
> 
> And then there is the question if the good ones are strong enough to stand presure from their family  if the family is bad needing to disagree with.


I would like to learn from you. Maybe you can offer some classes😀🙂


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## bigpearl

Lunkan said:


> No. As with most things, success depend mainly of skill. Many men fail when chosing wife by they "think with wrong head"  Many men dont show any capacitty of judge personality at all... And some as e g two of my nephews dont listen to me 🤣 so they fail, while one of my sisters asked me and got ovr 40 yearr happy marriage.
> 
> There is even science research concerning suiting chance from personality coming from effects of sibbing position, who have any CHANCE at all to suit. (Onlly child and eldest sibbling CANT suit to same as themself nor each other. Youngest to youngesst can be possible but not sso good.) It dont need to be BLOOD sibblings, its about who they grew up with living AS sibblings, which complicate it in countris as Phils where many live together with cousins, and in western countries many are "plasric sibblings" (=Parents get new partner and by that their kids move together).
> 
> Some count as science, some dont, zodiacs and chinese birth yeats about suiting chances.
> 
> Then its about how basic personalities has DEVELOPED. I claim basic personality can NEVER change to an other basic persoaöity, but they can develop diferent good/bad.
> 
> And then there is the question if the good ones are strong enough to stand presure from their family  if the family is bad needing to disagree with.


Interesting philosophy and observations. Lots of merit with your thoughts. Same for my sister together with her husband since She was 16, he 18. so together for nearly 45 years,,,,,,,,, obviously he didn't think with the wrong head nor my sis even though our mother kept saying to her and us that he is no good and it won't last.......... My mother was in her 4th marriage, perhaps more as I've not spoken to her for 30 plus years. She has never met my children, 32 and 27. Selfish and self centred is my mother now in her mid 80's if she is still alive, not only in the Philippines does this sh*t happen. No great loss.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl

Sactown2015 said:


> I would like to learn from you. Maybe you can offer some classes😀🙂


Welcome to the forum Sactown, enjoy.
Free lessons on here from Lunkan all the time, mostly we agree, sometimes not but a great contributor offering different perspectives.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Sactown2015

bigpearl said:


> Welcome to the forum Sactown, enjoy.
> Free lessons on here from Lunkan all the time, mostly we agree, sometimes not but a great contributor offering different perspectives.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


👏👏👏


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## Lunkan

bigpearl said:


> Interesting philosophy and observations. Lots of merit with your thoughts. Same for my sister together with her husband since She was 16, he 18. so together for nearly 45 years,,,,,,,,, obviously he didn't think with the wrong head nor my sis even though our mother kept saying to her and us that he is no good and it won't last.......... My mother was in her 4th marriage,


 👍 Low chance its worth listen to chose partner advice from someone with only several failures herself


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## bigpearl

Been there and we move forward. 22 years and divorced. Trials and tribulations ever since.

Cheers, Steve.


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## KatanaDV20

What I have read in this thread is a terrifying to me lol. While I have been to the Ph numerous times I am an utter newbie at the nuances and politics of living there, dealing with families there and all the associated drama. It sounds really scary. How foreigners are treated more like an occupying enemy force rather than residents. And the cops always side with the local? That is EXACTLY how it is in China - the very country Filipinos point fingers at. 

Sorry to hear that some of you have been hurt by women you met there. 

At my old job in a hospital here in the UK I had many Filipina nurse friends and even THEY were furious at how their relatives treated them as ATM machines. One nurse showed me a message from an uncle who had never even spoken to her for 10 years. He was "Now that you are rich in the UK I want you to buy me this motorcyle" and he attached a pic of some expensive Honda bike! This nurse was in tears of rage and I told her to tell him to take a hike. Surprisingly - she did! She then told me that this behavior is a disease there and she gave me tips before I visited. 

I am lucky that my gf breaks the mold and is very supportive of me. She rips into her family if they try and play games. She tore into her sister once because she found out she had messaged me asking for a new tablet! Amazingly (for a Filipina) she never wants children (neither do I) so I lucked out finding a match as everyone kept tellin me they wanna turn into baby machines ASAP lol. 

Guess what - the other women who live near her question her as to why she isnt pregnant yet and when are we getting married bla bla bla Ugh this was one wake up call for me, people are so ____g nosy there. 

When I visit I rent a place far from hers. 

Coming back to the OPs topic - I would love to retire to Asia but I am not exclusively considering just the Phils. I am researching other options in Asia - India, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia etc. 

I wonder if any members of this forum have done such a thing - married their Filipina but settled elsewhere in Asia. Would be interesting to hear from you and what its like to retire to whatever country you selected.


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## Lunkan

KatanaDV20 said:


> Guess what - the other women who live near her question her as to why she isnt pregnant yet and when are we getting married bla bla bla Ugh this was one wake up call for me, people are so ____g nosy there.


 World champions in tsismis =gossip  Rather many Fiipinos say such too.



KatanaDV20 said:


> Coming back to the OPs topic - I would love to retire to Asia but I am not exclusively considering just the Phils. I am researching other options in Asia - India, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia etc.
> 
> I wonder if any members of this forum have done such a thing - married their Filipina but settled elsewhere in Asia. Would be interesting to hear from you and what its like to retire to whatever country you selected.


 For Swedes Thailand is much more natural by long time relations at high level (during the old now dead king) and much better flight connections,
BUT when researched posible Visas and what foreigners are alowed to do concerning real estate and business, I changed TO the Philippines 
Before the change to Phis I checked Cambodia and Laos a bit too, but I skiped because I like to live rural and there are/were mines injuring people still (Pol Pot civil war in Cambodia) and unexploded bombs (American since VietNam war dropped in Laos!!!)


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## KatanaDV20

Lunkan said:


> World champions in tsismis =gossip  Rather many Fiipinos say such too.
> 
> For Swedes Thailand is much more natural by long time relations at high level (during the old now dead king) and much better flight connections,
> BUT when researched posible Visas and what foreigners are alowed to do concerning real estate and business, I changed TO the Philippines
> Before the change to Phis I checked Cambodia and Laos a bit too, but I skiped because I like to live rural and there are/were mines injuring people still (Pol Pot civil war in Cambodia) and unexploded bombs (American since VietNam war dropped in Laos!!!)


The gossiping is next level I tell you. My gf is very calm and chilled out but she told me she couldnt take it anymore and snapped at them. She told them to leave her alone, that it was none of their business. 

Interesting feedback, thanks! So the real estate scene in Thailand when it comes to foreigners is worse than in the Ph! So much so that you picked the Ph. I had forgotten about that aspect of Cambodia,Vietnam and Laos. They look like amazing places and its terribly sad how their countryside is literally as you said - a minefield. I too like living in rural areas.

During my travels in India I found out its very popular with German retirees. Specially in the South. Also many thousands of Koreans due to the massive auto industry manufacturing plants of Hyundai etc. The Germans live a very comfortable happy life near the amazing beaches there and there are daily Lufthansa flights to Frankfurt. They go back quite a ways so I found that interesting.

I do have friends in Malaysia so I plan on (once the world opens) going there and scoping the place out and asking advice.

Aside from whats been mentioned here (annoyances in the Philippines) I found the people there good fun. Very friendly Jeepney and trike drivers and I made friends with the staff at a small coffee stall in one of the malls who always remembered me between visits. Even the immigration officer at the airport recognized me I got a hearty "Welcome back!"

The dramas I found usually start once you are immersed in their daily family life. Which is why I have told myself (and my gf happily agreed) that if I decide to settle there it will be FAR AWAY from her fam, like possibly another island. As I said Im still a newbie at all things Philippines and so I learn a lot reading the accounts of members on here who have lived there a long time.


----------



## Maxx62

One of the things I may have neglected to put enough emphasis on in my original post, is the fact that my wife and two of her sisters have been 100% on my side during the dispute I had with my brother-in-law, so it isn't as if the entire family turned against me. However, my brother-in-law, and another sister were vehemently opposed to me, and that was enough to make me get out, because in that people will play very dirty once they reach a certain level of desperation.

Well, forty years ago my father-in-law was a respected attorney who owned several businesses. Unfortunately, a few of his kids decided to party their early adult years away on drugs, alcohol, and going to the club, and now that they are in their fifties and sixties, they are facing financial hardship due to their failing health, and having to run to the doctor every other day. These people were upper middle-class, but they partied like they were members of the Kennedy family. 

So, if you happen to see that your wife has a couple of siblings who are nothing but old pieces of used up party trash, keep in mind that these people will come sniffing around for money that doesn't belong to them, and they will not care if they throw their own sister under the bus in order to enrich themselves. Over here, when formerly well-to-do people find themselves in desperate straights, they will become desperate to find a way to pay for their rising medical expenses, and when the locals become desperate, they are willing to do anything to protect their own interests.


----------



## M.C.A.

KatanaDV20 said:


> The dramas I found usually start once you are immersed in their daily family life. Which is why I have told myself (and my gf happily agreed) that if I decide to settle there it will be FAR AWAY from her fam, like possibly another island. As I said Im still a newbie at all things Philippines and so I learn a lot reading the accounts of members on here who have lived there a long time.


You might want to rent then on another island or out in the sticks to see just what you'll be dealing with when it comes to your delicious food options  products, hospitalization, internet... spoiler, you might not want that.

If the partner can't keep the In-laws away, she sure won't be able to keep neighbors and her new acquaintances from bugging you for money (you will get bugged no matter what), you can't escape the culture, find a spot that fits your lifestyle. 

It might not be so easy for your partner to just immigrate to another Asian country either, you could end up making things harder on yourself. 

We have to keep quiet and not get involved with the In-laws or things escalate, we lose when we open our mouths or dig into our pockets, so It's not that bad even though at times the forum comments makes it seem so, and yet here we are still living in the Philippines.


----------



## bigpearl

Boundaries need to be set from day 1. What you and your better half are comfortable with and don't waiver. Seems to have worked for us to date with no family fallouts.
There was one time when the sister in law asked for a loan of PHP 10K, no problem but it is a loan and needs to be repaid,,,,,, didn't happen and a year or so later another relative asked Ben for a loan and he asked if that was OK? I simply said to him tell your relative to go ask your sister for that money she won't repay. Never another ask and that was 5 or 6 years ago.
Guys/Gals we all worked somewhat hard for our retirement and I refuse to pander to lazy so and so's. As said always welcomed by the immediate family but we will see what happens in the future.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Lunkan

KatanaDV20 said:


> Interesting feedback, thanks! So the real estate scene in Thailand when it comes to foreigners is worse than in the Ph! So much so that you picked the Ph. I had forgotten about that aspect of Cambodia,Vietnam and Laos. They look like amazing places and its terribly sad how their countryside is literally as you said - a minefield. I too like living in rural areas.


 Thailand allow almost nothing concerning real esate (except comdos- no such rural  ) and business (except if HUGE investment. And the VISA renevaös - Yikes! 
Cambodia has minefields in *northwest *where Pol Pot were pushed bajk to. Cllearing work is done, but I believe many left still. Some years ago a small girl got her leg blown off, survived but lost her leg. She was very impressing when she had much pain when she got her new "leg" . Was offered icecream, which she didnt bother about at all, she only bothered about testing her new leg inspite of the pain 👍
Laos is far behind the other counries in developmemt, so I didnt realy check it. 



KatanaDV20 said:


> German retirees.


 There are manty German retirees in Dumaguete and the less hot mountains outside. I know a bit a German living there in the mountains and he seem tto like it. 



KatanaDV20 said:


> I do have friends in Malaysia so I plan on (once the world opens) going there and scoping the place out and asking advice.


 I didnt realy check Malaysia and Indonesia, perhaps depending of when I skiped Thailand Ifound a very intesting Filipina  (But part of her family is to bad. Very poor and big part is very lazy. I wouldnt mind suppoting the few good ones, but they live together tso the lazy ones would beniit of it too, which I refuse. That woman agree, she dislikepartof her famiy.)



Maxx62 said:


> forty years ago my father-in-law was a respected attorney who owned several businesses. Unfortunately, a few of his kids decided to party their early adult years away on drugs, alcohol, and going to the club, and now that they are in their fifties and sixties, they are facing financial hardship due to their failing health, and having to run to the doctor every other day. These people were upper middle-class, but they partied like they were members of the Kennedy family.


 My experience is rich and upper middle class are crap people. Of course there are exceptions, but they seem rare 

Perhaps my judgement is some effected though by I find it a huge diference between
poor who scam a bit to SURVIVE
and rich and middle class who scam of GREED...


----------



## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> It might not be so easy for your partner to just immigrate to another Asian country either, you could end up making things harder on yourself.


 I changed m mind concerning nationality of possible wife at same time as I changed my mind concerning country  (With no Thai girlfriend when I changed my mind. We had reached conclusion we were friends but not marriage material to each other. We are friends still.)
If same country then the wife know about language and culture there, which is recomended.


----------



## KatanaDV20

ragbone13 said:


> It all depends on the individual. My asawa sides with me against he family (6 sisters and 2 brothers - parents are deceased) every time. Family gets one chance and ONLY one chance with me. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


Best policy. Im lucky my gf is like your asawa, takes no nonsense from the rest of her fam and is very protective of me.




M.C.A. said:


> You might want to rent then on another island or out in the sticks to see just what you'll be dealing with when it comes to your delicious food options  products, hospitalization, internet... spoiler, you might not want that.
> 
> If the partner can't keep the In-laws away, she sure won't be able to keep neighbors and her new acquaintances from bugging you for money (you will get bugged no matter what), you can't escape the culture, find a spot that fits your lifestyle.
> 
> It might not be so easy for your partner to just immigrate to another Asian country either, you could end up making things harder on yourself.
> 
> We have to keep quiet and not get involved with the In-laws or things escalate, we lose when we open our mouths or dig into our pockets, so It's not that bad even though at times the forum comments makes it seem so, and yet here we are still living in the Philippines.


A lot of wisdom in your reply, thank you. Shows how little I know about life there. What you said is totally true. I like the rural life but the location has to be just right - and right now my gf lives in just such a place. Nice chilled out rural setting on Panay Island near Santa Barbara - but Iloilo city is just a cab ride or jeepney hop away and I could literally walk to the airport if I wanted to for direct flights to Singapore, Hong Kong etc. World at my doorstep. I most definitely would never live like WAY out in the boonies miles from anywhere and medical care.

The single biggest annoyance for me now is that I help my gf by sending her a little money now and then (she has never asked, not once) as the little roadside shop she runs isnt brining in the money like it used to since the corona chaos. The problem is she lives with her huge family...and I do not want THEM (leeches) to benefit from it. I have made it very clear to my gf to use the money only for herself and that I am not an ATM machine for her 5 sisters and 15 (count em) nieces and nephews. On that note she has shown her fury to her sisters for constantly popping out babies like theres no tomorrow. She tells them all to "go get tied already" lol.

Having said all this...there is a certain appeal to living in the Ph. One huge plus is the widely spoke English. Everyone I met there from the immigration officer at the airport to the trike driver spoke it. Makes things so easy. Compared to the horror of me in Paris blundering about with a phrase book with the locals laughing at me.

Also once you learn how to deal with the locals, the SO's family then it can be a peaceful existence!





bigpearl said:


> Boundaries need to be set from day 1. What you and your better half are comfortable with and don't waiver. Seems to have worked for us to date with no family fallouts.
> There was one time when the sister in law asked for a loan of PHP 10K, no problem but it is a loan and needs to be repaid,,,,,, didn't happen and a year or so later another relative asked Ben for a loan and he asked if that was OK? I simply said to him tell your relative to go ask your sister for that money she won't repay. Never another ask and that was 5 or 6 years ago.
> Guys/Gals we all worked somewhat hard for our retirement and I refuse to pander to lazy so and so's. As said always welcomed by the immediate family but we will see what happens in the future.
> 
> OMO.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Very well said. This is why I tell the gf that the assistance I give her is for her , only her and no one but her. I learned very fast that they see us a ATM machines. I have also told her to never ever let anyone "borrow" money (lol lol I love that one!) from her and neither do I want her to "borrow" from someone. I have also suggested she stop her habit of "buy now pay later". Fed up of some random girl turning up at lunchtime asking to be paid for a set of 4 bras bought 4 week ago 

When I walked out of the house with the gf to take her for a meal - the sisters place their orders too, they want take out. The bro in laws want booze. I cant refuse, the way I see it Im in a "hostile land" and have to (to some extent) keep the fam sweet on me. Im well aware that speaking my mind wont do me any favours. So theres some things I just have to suck up until the day comes I can move the gf far away (she cant wait lol) and we have just each other.

On the flipside - she is not alone. So having all those family members does give some security. Choices choices...



Very interesting topic OP and thanks to everyone for their comments, learning a lot....


----------



## bigpearl

Katana, I'm not going to quote off, takes up space. It sounds like you are seeing/learning from our (members) whinges and b*tches as time goes on and have your own experiences to boot unlike many. Well done.

I will say with regards to take aways and booze,,,,,,,, stop it. Get your better half to make them understand that you are "her" partner that has worked for a living and not a wealthy unlimited charity. By submitting to a few small asks will easily lead to more asks and wants, bigger and bigger. nip it in the bud.
"Hostile land"? Don't feel intimidated by family members, get a hotel if it's a problem, all else the same unless they have a gun or bolo,,,,,, Any different to the UK? Australia? United States? Enjoy your space. Your partner should be slapping them if she cares for your relationship.

I am guilty of hand out to the family so you are not on your Pat Malone. I am not going to go into the 8 and 9 year ago details but all up PHP 450/500K. That money was put into beneficial and constructive things like dental braces for the niece and nephew, deep well and pump/plumbing for the house, our furniture loaned to them until we return,,,,,,,, loan, borrow or can you means gift here. LOL, the only thing we got back from our condo days in Manila was the tumble dryer simply because they refused to use it for the running cost. We never contributed to take aways or booze. Once a year we do take the direct family to a restaurant all 14 to 16 of them, one year we purchased a pig for the Christmas gift.
Not now for 2 years,,,,,,, Covid. 

Honestly? I got my better half on the same page (BUDGET) with family asks by simply saying "we can do that but we won't be going to Italy for holidays" or "no new car" or "iPhone, gaming laptop. Budget is a scarcely known word here from experience,,,,,, ha many countries.

Wow another rant, soz.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## freebiefan

I lived and worked in Malaysia for 5 years and travelled all over the country including Sabah and Sarawak.
to be honest Philipipnes, whilst chaotic and crazy and frustrating at least has a element of excitement as to what can happen in various situations. Malaysia... very very boring. Unless you like golf, I couldnt find a reason to be in Malaysia. Great hospitals, good roads, good infrastructure generally. Good hotels and you can own the house and the land on which it sits. Some good beaches too but like here the good ones are crwded although the girls there dont wear bikinis.. shock horror, no skin must be shown lol. Sabah and Kota Kinabalu more interesting but at the end of the day, over half the country is muslim so half the restaurants only serve coke or pepsi. Alcohol is expensive in Malaysia except Langkawi. Despite being as modern as it is, I'd take the chaos of Philippines every day.


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## art1946

hey KatanaDV20,

Getting your GF to listen to you about not giving to the family all the time is like jumping out of an airplane at 20,000 ft without a parachute and think you can fly. I have been down that road 3 times with the filipino ladies. I married one and brought her to America. I told her I wasn't sending money to her family. Well she finally got a job at Lowes lumber store and her money was electronically deposited into her checking account she opened at the bank. She would send most all her money to her family and overdrawn in her checking account. She had some months over $80 in fees. BY THE WAY! I DIVORCED HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope you can get her to listen to you. 

Good Luck,

art


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## JonL12345

This all sounds a bit depressing! I was considering the next stage of my life, as a 56 year old single male. The appeal of living in the Philippines has gone down somewhat.


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## art1946

hi JonL

Welcome. It is depressing to a degree. You will find most women in the Philippines wants you to take care of their family also. There are some that is not like that but it is rare to find one. I hope you luck in your search. Just be careful with the lady you meet. If she starts immediately wanting money for her family then RUN, RUN!!!!!!

Art


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## JonL12345

I started a profile on DateinAsia last week, and have gotten quite a few messages. I am not sure what the experience is of others on here from that site? That has partly made me think that the Philippines would be a good place to relocate to. I have a friend who lives in Thailand, and he enjoys it.


----------



## art1946

hello JonL,

like I said, BE CAREFUL!!!! I have been going to the Philippines, Hong Kong, Taiwan for over 15 years now. I was married to a Filipino. Same old crap. She wanted me to send money to her family all the time. She got a job here in the USA and I found out she was sending most of her money there instead of helping us out. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!! hahahaha

Don't let the beauty of her cloud your mind.

Art


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## JonL12345

@art1946 Was yours an age-gap relationship?


----------



## Lunkan

art1946 said:


> You will find most women in the Philippines wants you to take care of their family also. There are some that is not like that but it is rare to find one.


 Phil LAW say cloest relatives HAVE TO support someome strugling BUIT - there is a big but, which many dont know of - ONLY if tte needing *do their best to solve their own problems, *except no such demand of work for OLD people. So the lazy ones DONT have right to support.


JonL12345 said:


> I started a profile on DateinAsia last week, and have gotten quite a few messages. I am not sure what the experience is of others on here from that site? That has partly made me think that the Philippines would be a good place to relocate to. I have a friend who lives in Thailand, and he enjoys it.


 I know a bunch of serious looking for partner at datingsites Filipinas, who are very frustrated at they have ONLY been contacted by unserious foreigners, who just want to the Filipina to show nuditity in videocalls. So if you contact serious ones and are intterested in a serious relation yourself, then you will get many intrested in you 
But by many have been fooled, the foreignrer never came to visit as he said (before covid) Filipinas can have "backups" and can chose the onw who arrive first if he act good. So basicly thats not Filipinas fault, its by how foreigmers has acted to oter Filipinas. Fiipinos are world champions in tsismis = gossip  witn a mix of truths and not, so such as behaviours among foreigners do spread. Although when its about a foreigner, which a Filipina have "got" then whats told about him is most likely exaggerations, because not all but many of Filipinos like to try to seem better than others. Although thats perhaps an exaggeration too in comparings witn westerners, because in many western villa suburbs its like that too haha


----------



## Hey_Joe

Lunkan said:


> But by many have been fooled


I recall years meeting a Foreigner was visiting the area bar where I live. He met a girl online, fell in love, said he started supporting her, came to visit her and when they met up at the airport she was in a wheelchair. He said he gave her some money to get home then went to Angeles City and met a girl in the bar within a few days.

Many continued to be fooled. I'm not saying all, just that there are some girls in the Expat area where i live and 2 other Expats areas frequent have moved on from their foreigner boyfriends. They claim they are bored and have either found another local BF, or another Expat still here or have returned to the bar, but the foreigner don't know & keep sending them money.


----------



## M.C.A.

Hey_Joe said:


> Many continued to be fooled. I'm not saying all, just that there are some girls in the Expat area where i live and 2 other Expats areas frequent have moved on from their foreigner boyfriends. They claim they are bored and have either found another local BF, or another Expat still here or have returned to the bar, but the foreigner don't know & keep sending them money.


I've witnessed this myself. Sister In-law who is a Lesbian was collecting money from a German Expat Lol... but then again, I think she would have married the German expat, she was waiting for him to visit but he never did, he had some sort of online clothing business in Cebu, I checked out his Facebook posting and he appeared to be a serious playboy with the ladies but I think that was part of his business ploy, and then one of the Fellow Expats who lives in Cebu told me he happened to meet him in an Expat bar I showed him his photo and he knew him well and he was with his partner another man.


----------



## Lunkan

Hey_Joe said:


> Lunkan said:
> But by many have been fooled
> 
> 
> Lunkan said:
> 
> 
> 
> But by many have been fooled
> 
> 
> 
> I recall...
Click to expand...

 Yes, but that part of what I wrote was about serious relation seeking Filipinas *geting fooled by foreigners*


----------



## Maxx62

JonL12345 said:


> This all sounds a bit depressing! I was considering the next stage of my life, as a 56 year old single male. The appeal of living in the Philippines has gone down somewhat.


Well, it can be depressing if you fail to take into consideration all of the possible pitfalls. It seems that a lot of expats here in this forum have opted settle down with their new wife in a town that is a way from her own family. That seems to take care of a lot of the potential problems, but you have to remember, anytime you have a squabble with one of the locals, the justice system over here is almost always going to take their side. So, as someone else said, don't build or invest in anything which you aren't prepared to walk away from at a moment's notice.


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## bigpearl

"Why buy the cow for a glass of milk" is a common quote from a rather arrogant member on another site that I'm well sure that Lunkan knows and laughs about. It's not only Pinay's, lol or Pinoy's that are scammers. Only my humble opinion but is it really any different world wide when one thinks about it? Been there.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Maxx62

Now, the really stupid thing I did was, back in 2012 my wife and I basically burned all of our bridges in the US by giving away or selling everything we owned back home. Of course since I've showed up back in the US a few weeks ago, not too many people are happy to let old Max sleep on their couch as he tries to reestablish himself back home. So, if you decide to leave the US and settle in the PI, make sure you always have a plan to return, should things turn rotten in your new home. I didn't take this step, and now I'm really paying the price.


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## bigpearl

Not my business Max but why return to the US? Yes I also burnt my bridges in Australia but I have the funds to return,,, advised well before I moved here to have an escape plan by those smarter than myself back then. Thing is I have another 46 year lease remaining here and while I certainly won't live that long the kids and family have a holiday house on the beach.

Surely for you your family can help? I dearly hope so. Hang in there Max.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> It seems that a lot of expats here in this forum have opted settle down with their new wife in a town that is a way from her own family. That seems to take care of a lot of the potential problems,


 I plan do do so,
but there are many foreigners, who live HAPPY close to or even with Filipina wife s family. One foreigner told he was sceptic first againt wife s family, but now he has a very close good relation both to wife s sibblings and mother. (I beieve the father is dead.)
I guess its ariound half of each in the long time relations when they live in Phils. 

close. I mean in foreign messure. E g a Filipina married to a foreigner told she find it far to live 10 houses away from her parents haha
Its common SE Asians have such odd messure of "far". E g one said:
-This place is far from neighbours.
-But whats most to the right at the photo? 
-Thats neigbour s house.
-But thats only like 30 meters away...
🤣 .


----------



## Maxx62

bigpearl said:


> Not my business Max but why return to the US? -- Surely for you your family can help? I dearly hope so. Hang in there Max.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


The US was my first choice, because I wanted to get out of the Philippines in a hurry, and since that is where I originally came from, it seemed like the easiest place to get back onto my feet. Well, that's the funny thing about family, at least my family anyway. In my case I originally planned on staying with a younger sister and her husband outside San Francisco, but things didn't workout, so now I'm staying with an old friend who used to be my work supervisor way back during the 1980s & 90s. - So, sometimes blood isn't thicker than water, and sometimes friends are more reliable than family.


----------



## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> close. I mean in foreign messure. E g a Filipina married to a foreigner told she find it far to live 10 houses away from her parents haha
> Its common SE Asians have such odd messure of "far". E g one said:
> -This place is far from neighbours.
> -But whats most to the right at the photo?
> -Thats neigbour s house.
> -But thats only like 30 meters away...
> 🤣 .


Well, I guess that you just have to live far enough away from your future in-laws so that they don't consider it worthwhile to come over and make a nuisance of themselves at your house. If your in-laws live close enough that they can simply hop on a tricycle to come over and visit, then look out, you're going to have some fun on your hands. On the other hand if your girlfriend's family lives so far away that they have to ride a bus to come see you, then you're probably safe for a while.


----------



## bigpearl

True words Max. A nice glass of red wine will beat blood or water any day. I tend to be a realist and acknowledged reality when I decided to sell up and exit the country (Oz) potentially never to return aside from visits,,,,,, good luck there these days. Set the safety wheels in motion 7 or 8 years ago with the better half understanding a lease set up,,,,, Hey it's my money Ralph etc. Carry me out in a box and then the family and friends will continue to enjoy.
I would not impose myself on my sister, well maybe for a weeks holiday no different to family or friends brave enough to visit our humble abode.
Max I hope you can work things out so you can move on.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl

Maxx62 said:


> Well, I guess that you just have to live far enough away from your future in-laws so that they don't consider it worthwhile to come over and make a nuisance of themselves at your house. If your in-laws live close enough that they can simply hop on a tricycle to come over and visit, then look out, you're going to have some fun on your hands. On the other hand if your girlfriend's family lives so far away that they have to ride a bus to come see you, then you're probably safe for a while.


Max I like others have learnt from the burnt. I have said this many times that ground rules need to be set from day one, go over the line once, twice but if you and your better half value the relationship it should only happen once and then the brakes go on,,,,, been there. It's not that difficult to say no or if you want to visit let us know so we can feed and accomodate,,,,,,, normal western thinking. I have not seen any of the family here for 8 or 12 months because they know they I am not a soft touch. Ben visits them every week or two and I don't because of Covid.

We split up? Cya and will move on, sad yes but that is the nature of the beast as all know. Cover your derriere first and ask questions when required and answer questions if you have to. Cynical maybe but I do not intend to move back to Oz.

Hope you work it out Max.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> Well, I guess that you just have to live far enough away from your future in-laws so that they don't consider it worthwhile to come over and make a nuisance of themselves at your house. If your in-laws live close enough that they can simply hop on a tricycle to come over and visit, then look out, you're going to have some fun on your hands. On the other hand if your girlfriend's family lives so far away that they have to ride a bus to come see you, then you're probably safe for a while.


 Well. I have decided where I want to live so to marry me,"wife" would need to agree 

I like to get* planned* visits *seldom*, but I dont like suprise visits from anyone including my own family  - except small kids are fun. 
If living close to wife s family they will visit to offen for my taste even if they are very nice.
Thats why I like to live far away from all people, roosters and muffled motorbikes 

- -
I believe bipearl ment - Why leaving Phils at all?


----------



## JonL12345

Do you get these same sorts of problems in Thailand, or are they watered down somewhat because of culture and it being slightly less poor? The Philippines appeals because of the English speaking, but Thailand perhaps has better food, more advanced infrastructure and hospitals, more organised, less family involvement etc. These are all guesses because I don't actually know, but based on my limited knowledge it might be the case.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> Do you get these same sorts of problems in Thailand, or are they watered down somewhat because of culture and it being slightly less poor? The Philippines appeals because of the English speaking, but Thailand perhaps has better food, more advanced infrastructure and hospitals, more organised, less family involvement etc. These are all guesses because I don't actually know, but based on my limited knowledge it might be the case.





JonL12345 said:


> Do you get these same sorts of problems in Thailand, or are they watered down somewhat because of culture and it being slightly less poor? The Philippines appeals because of the English speaking, but Thailand perhaps has better food, more advanced infrastructure and hospitals, more organised, less family involvement etc. These are all guesses because I don't actually know, but based on my limited knowledge it might be the case.


JonL ... English speaking? Are you sure about that, because they don't speak English in our Municipality of over 30,000 people or much in the surrounding area's and I have the hardest time trying to get my message across and I live on Luzon, near Sta Cruz Laguna. This goes for the non cable TV channels, very little if any English spoken.

You'd be surprised at how many can understand any English let alone have a decent conversation.


----------



## Lunkan

JonL12345 said:


> Do you get these same sorts of problems in Thailand, or are they watered down somewhat because of culture and it being slightly less poor? The Philippines appeals because of the English speaking, but Thailand perhaps has better food, more advanced infrastructure and hospitals, more organised, less family involvement etc. These are all guesses because I don't actually know, but based on my limited knowledge it might be the case.


From start I aimed at Thailand because if much better contacts with Sweden (during the now dead king)
but I changed my mind TO Phils because much better for foreigners concerning VISA and whats allowed concerning land and business.
People living in Thailand say it has become much worse for foreigners to LIVE in Thailand since the old king died, now it seem they only want SHORT time tourists...
Athough one thing I find better in Thailand is the religion, not being narrowminded as many catholics are. I blame much of the problems in Phils at church and colonialism.
(Thailand and Sweden are the only countries in the world, which have never been fully conquered. But England, perhaps some protest. Whole England was taken by Wikings 


M.C.A. said:


> JonL ... English speaking? Are you sure about that, because they don't speak English in our Municipality of over 30,000 people or much in the surrounding area's and I have the hardest time trying to get my message across and I live on Luzon, near Sta Cruz Laguna. This goes for the non cable TV channels, very little if any English spoken.
> 
> You'd be surprised at how many can understand any English let alone have a decent conversation.


 Well. Are you sure of that?  its rather common Filipinos are so affraid of "Lose face" so if they arent good at English, many prefer to not speak at all to avoid showing it.
E g parents to a Filipina, who I knew many years ago rural, first claimed they couldnt any English, but they werent so bad, when they dared to start speaking any English, we could communicate ok. This was before I knew any Tagalog or Bisaya.


----------



## M.C.A.

Lunkan said:


> Well. Are you sure of that?  its rather common Filipinos are so affraid of "Lose face" so if they arent good at English, many prefer to not speak at all to avoid showing it.
> E g parents to a Filipina, who I knew many years ago rural, first claimed they couldnt any English, but they werent so bad, when they dared to start speaking any English, we could communicate ok. This was before I knew any Tagalog or Bisaya.


If I forget some Tagalog words or can't pronounce the word correctly nobody knows what I'm talking about, come visit me sometime Lunkin, they don't speak much English in our Municipality, they may know a few words but you won't have a conversation with most citizens where I live.

But I am familiar with what you're talking about, some are shy to speak or communicate because they only know a few words. I was trying to explain in Tagalog once with a propane dealer what I needed done to my tank and he told "Speak English" Lol... he couldn't understand English either but he did know a few words but he couldn't understand my Tagalog. 

Example of what I'm talking about, even English words, you want Bacon... but if you say Bacon I get the guppy look but if you pronounce it BayKhan it's understood.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

bigpearl said:


> Boundaries need to be set from day 1. What you and your better half are comfortable with and don't waiver. Seems to have worked for us to date with no family fallouts.


If ever there were words that needed to read to every expat thinking about entering into a LTR in the Philippines, it is these!

Fortunately for me, it was my wife that set these boundaries with her family first and then explained to me how it was going to work. In 20 years I have only been asked once for anything directly and that was from a distant Uncle on his first visit. 



bigpearl said:


> By submitting to a few small asks will easily lead to more asks and wants, bigger and bigger. nip it in the bud.


Closely associated with the establishment of boundaries is what to do when those limits are tested.



JonL12345 said:


> This all sounds a bit depressing! I was considering the next stage of my life, as a 56 year old single male. The appeal of living in the Philippines has gone down somewhat.


After living and working in multiple countries throughout Asia for 40 years, I wouldn't be anywhere else. As you are learning from this forum, there are challenges and risks but if you find the right partner it is heaven on Earth.



Maxx62 said:


> It seems that a lot of expats here in this forum have opted settle down with their new wife in a town that is a way from her own family. That seems to take care of a lot of the potential problems,





Maxx62 said:


> Well, I guess that you just have to live far enough away from your future in-laws so that they don't consider it worthwhile to come over and make a nuisance of themselves at your house. If your in-laws live close enough that they can simply hop on a tricycle to come over and visit, then look out, you're going to have some fun on your hands. On the other hand if your girlfriend's family lives so far away that they have to ride a bus to come see you, then you're probably safe for a while.


Distance is helpful but the boundaries and reinforcing of limits that Steve mentioned are the greatest tools needed to establish and develop a healthy and honest relationship with your partner. That's as true in Memphis as it is in Manila.



JonL12345 said:


> Do you get these same sorts of problems in Thailand, or are they watered down somewhat because of culture and it being slightly less poor? The Philippines appeals because of the English speaking, but Thailand perhaps has better food, more advanced infrastructure and hospitals, more organised, less family involvement etc. These are all guesses because I don't actually know, but based on my limited knowledge it might be the case.


I started my SE Asian adventures in Bangers and have been back plenty to the usual places and Nakhon Nowhere. I never found Thai women to be as easy to bond with as Filipinas and their accented English was not the most pleasant sound. Different strokes of course and YMMV!



M.C.A. said:


> JonL ... English speaking? Are you sure about that, because they don't speak English in our Municipality of over 30,000 people or much in the surrounding area's and I have the hardest time trying to get my message across and I live on Luzon, near Sta Cruz Laguna. This goes for the non cable TV channels, very little if any English spoken.
> 
> You'd be surprised at how many can understand any English let alone have a decent conversation.


In one of my jobs here I managed an organization of ~500 Filipinos in the NCR. Many of them understood the English words but don't really comprehend the complexities of the English language. Writing was even worse.

My wife and I laugh about this almost on a daily basis!


----------



## grahamw57

Retiring here (as I have) is fine IMO...relaxing, fun, and cheap, as long as you learn and remember 'the ropes'. Just take note of some really sensible and useful posts in this thread.


----------



## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> But I am familiar with what you're talking about, some are shy to speak or communicate because they only know a few words. I was trying to explain in Tagalog once with a propane dealer what I needed done to my tank and he told "Speak English" Lol... he couldn't understand English either but he did know a few words but *he couldn't understand my Tagalog.*


  
Perhaps depending of English pronounce a bunch of the letters wrong  
different from e g German, Spanish, Swedish - and Tagalog, Bisaya ,which pronounce the letters almost same as each other. A Filipina wanted to learn some Swedish. Just for fun I let her read a Swedish text loud without any preparing not understanding a word herself, but I had no problem for me to understand what she said in Swedish.
She said her 8yo daugther did read bad. U thougt she ment Tagalog, but it was English, so not odd she had problem by letters pronounced so much different.
E g English E sound as Filipino I,
English I sound as Filipino AJ



M.C.A. said:


> Example of what I'm talking about, even English words, you want Bacon... but if you say Bacon I get the guppy look but if you pronounce it BayKhan it's understood.


 As one of my aunts said when she "spoke English". Bacon =Basooon


----------



## art1946

I really never had a problem with the locals speaking English. I lived 2 blocks from the university. Most took English classes also. I lived in Tagum city for a year. Just north of Davao city on National Highway. My GF then spoke English good. Her brother was not bad either. I found most that graduated from high school could speak English fairly well.

art


----------



## M.C.A.

Tyrion Lannister said:


> In one of my jobs here I managed an organization of ~500 Filipinos in the NCR. Many of them understood the English words but don't really comprehend the complexities of the English language. Writing was even worse.
> 
> My wife and I laugh about this almost on a daily basis!


When I shop in any major chained store, I find most can understand English and when I visit Manila I see the difference and find most can understand English but as soon we return area starting in Calamba Laguna the English diminishes, there is a college in Los Banos Laguna so it's like an Oasis of restaurants and shopping area's but as you continue south from there it gets worse, it's where we live.

To keep things real... I do talk and visit with a few in our Municipality as I shop for food items or products (on my bike) and its nice to talk with the citizens they get to know me, I don't get called "Joe" so often anymore. 

I don't see any other Expats living in our Municipality, I did run into a few that have since left, talking with them it turns out they didn't have a pension or didn't have the Permanent Resident Visa even though hey had married and so they had to leave. 

Sadly I don't talk with (only a few can speak English) the neighbors anymore or In-laws, they are all on the same team bashing us, plus the daily game here is to get drunk and I'm tired of that feeling so my monetary contributions to this daily sport is missed. I made it clear to them that I am now focusing on our kids and grand kids, one of them said but what about our friendship? I didn't really have a reply and couldn't think of one because the friendship is booze.


----------



## Lunkan

Tyrion Lannister said:


> In one of my jobs here I managed an organization of ~500 Filipinos in the NCR. Many of them understood the English words but don't really comprehend the complexities of the English language. Writing was even worse.
> 
> My wife and I laugh about this almost on a daily basis!


 PERHAPS it depended of language as you said.
OR - A friend from back in Elementary school, moved to Phils almost 40 years ago. *He speak Tagalog good*. His experience is *many Filipinos dont want to take instructions*, *because they see it as type of "lose face" * admiting they coiuldnt themselves, so many make up some own idea how to do it _instead_, and Filipinos arent known for good logic thinking so often they screw up. As e g the plumber who put a pipe in knee height diagonal over the room so people needed to climb over it!!! 🤣 

*BUT there are many GOOD who arent like that too. *( I have told about some of them elsewhere.)
That my friend gave up and did most himself, while I prefer to find the good exceptions  which I have but it took long time to find many in same place. Or to be fair, it wasnt I , who found them, it was an American, who had hired them several times and recomended them to me. Its the leader of them Im starting businesses together with, and I aim at trying to make work for them as much as they want.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

I used to work in Laguna. Have you been to Caliraya?

My favorite is when you ask a question requiring an answer beyond yes or no and get a solid smile and a "Yes sir"! Another memorable exchange was when a waiter told me that a filet was medium when it was bleeding all over the plate. I took out my phone, Googled "medium steak" and showed it to the young man who responded "No this is medium for a filet but it's different for other cuts of meat." lol

Contributions are missed indeed...


----------



## M.C.A.

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I used to work in Laguna. Have you been to Caliraya?
> 
> My favorite is when you ask a question requiring an answer beyond yes or no and get a solid smile and a "Yes sir"! Another memorable exchange was when a waiter told me that a filet was medium when it was bleeding all over the plate. I took out my phone, Googled "medium steak" and showed it to the young man who responded "No this is medium for a filet but it's different for other cuts of meat." lol
> 
> Contributions are missed indeed...


We went there twice to visit the Brother In-law, he nows lives right next to us unfortunatley we don't get along he's always jealous, anyway the girls were aggressive also I might add, good thing my wife was inside the in-laws house when I was out getting us some beer.

I drove down in that region in 2011 (I had an old car) and we ate at a resturant "Seirra Hills Exotik" Its location along the National Highway in Longos, Kalayaan up on the Hill/mountain side, it had some exotic foods served like aligator, we had shells in a spicy coconut dish with greens it was delicous, there also was a bar but it was during the afternoon so quite at the time, real unique dinning overlooking the area, I recommend this spot to anyone if they happen to be in the area, plus a small store at the entrance selling products that are hard to find like Habhab noodles.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

Never made it to Longos but have heard of Exotik...

If you lived in a nice area of Manila, say Wack Wack, you could avoid people more easily!


----------



## bigpearl

JonL12345 said:


> Do you get these same sorts of problems in Thailand, or are they watered down somewhat because of culture and it being slightly less poor? The Philippines appeals because of the English speaking, but Thailand perhaps has better food, more advanced infrastructure and hospitals, more organised, less family involvement etc. These are all guesses because I don't actually know, but based on my limited knowledge it might be the case.


Each to their own etc. BTW a late welcome to the forum.
!00% agree with the food but only if you like hot, I do. Only been to Thailand a couple of times and had a ball always but hey, I never chose to call it home nor ever would, hey my choice. I have had quite a few mates over the last 20 odd years that called Thai their home, lovely partners etc etc but either ended up back in Oz or if clever enough found a new existence there. Honestly and OMO......... Its not the girls or the country nor culture but the ease of assimilating with your decision, countries matter little. Good though at times bad, for me, even partnered with all the frustrating foibles and at times backward thinking I'm slowly chilling and accept both good and bad, traits I teethed on and grew up with in Australia and thought nothing of, on reflection? Country matters little but attitude and acceptance are the important things.
We all choose an airport and hope it works,,,,,, many advise the escape plan, wise words and country matters not.
Research, boots on the ground will generally win the day for the wise.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Lunkan

Tyrion Lannister said:


> My favorite is when you ask a question requiring an answer beyond yes or no and get a solid smile and a "Yes sir"! Another memorable exchange was when a waiter told me that a filet was medium when it was bleeding all over the plate. I took out my phone, Googled "medium steak" and showed it to the young man who responded "No this is medium for a filet but it's different for other cuts of meat." lol


 How many have heared Filipinos admit they did wrong*? *
(Except tribe people and some very poor Filipinos.)

Some years ago I had much contact with rich and middle class mainly Manila businessmen Filipinos. They NEVER admited they were wrong even when OBVIIOUS PROVEN LIED!!!
Its some "funny" they deny even obvious errors thinking that dont make them lose face!!! While at least in NorthWest European messure they lose face MORE by acting like that... 

My experience from tribe people are MUCH MUCH MUCH better 👍 In the tribe I have had most contact with, I have seen only two "rotten egs". They havent done anything bad to me, but to other tribe people. Although one of these two got instigated, paid by a Filipino from elsewhere, to try to make a tribe member lose his ancient family land  
When tribe people get scammed by Filipinos they normaly just give up, but this got asistance, so the scam take over of these 20 hectares is at least halted in court now. But the right owner is blocked from using it  until court has decided which can take many years. Luckily that family has other land too they can use.


----------



## JonL12345

M.C.A. said:


> We went there twice to visit the Brother In-law, he nows lives right next to us unfortunatley we don't get along he's always jealous, anyway the girls were aggressive also I might add, good thing my wife was inside the in-laws house when I was out getting us some beer.


What do you mean by the girls were aggressive? In what way?


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> What do you mean by the girls were aggressive? In what way?


Hi Jon and Welcome tot he forum. Lol... this was In my Brother In-laws neighborhood, unsure about the rest of the area, it was a very poor area, the two younger women thought I was single,
because I walking around with the Brother In-law and we were buying a case of beer, they wanted conversation.


----------



## Maxx62

Just wondering, as anyone else in this forum spent an extended period living in the PI, had to leave because of unexpected problems, but where then able to return later on after things blew over?


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## Lunkan

I believe better chance you get assistance if you put this in an own topic. 


Maxx62 said:


> Just wondering, as anyone else in this forum spent an *extended* period living in the PI, had to leave because of unexpected problems, but where then able to return later on after things blew over?


 I guess you dont mean "extended" but "overstay". Did I guess Correct? 

I know of a case where a foreigner got thrown out and blacklisted because of both overstay and working illeal without work permit. He got allowed to get in again after much work, BUT he has kids in Phils, which I suppouse made it some less hard.

I BELIEVE less hard to get in again - after time away - if you tell them by yourself and leave and pay the fines , than if they find you and through yiou out.


----------



## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> I believe better chance you get assistance if you put this in an own topic.
> I guess you dont mean "extended" but "overstay". Did I guess Correct?
> 
> I know of a case where a foreigner got thrown out and blacklisted because of both overstay and working illeal without work permit. He got allowed to get in again after much work, BUT he has kids in Phils, which I suppouse made it some less hard.
> 
> I BELIEVE less hard to get in again - after time away - if you tell them by yourself and leave and pay the fines , than if they find you and through yiou out.


Well, I may return someday in the future, but first I'll have to wait for the property dispute with my neighbor to resolve itself one way or another.


----------



## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> Well, I may return someday in the future, but first I'll have to wait for the property dispute with my neighbor to resolve itself one way or another.


 Yes such can be a big problem, even deadly. Two of the few killings of foreigners rural, I know were because of land disputes. 

Now when we are buying some lands, we both:
/check proper if there can be any others claiming (part) by inheritance or something. 
/ let DENR make new survey to make it sure 
/and asked the neighbours if they agreed where the boundries are.

BEFORE we bought.
And before we start spending time and money at making improvements


----------



## JonL12345

I've been watching some real-estate videos on YouTube lately and lots of the places have a maid and drivers quarters. Can someone please clarify for me exactly what happens there and what the costs are? I get a cleaner around for 4 hours per week in the UK, at a cost of around £50 each time. So perhaps the equivalent word would be a maid in the Philippines? Or do they do cooking, and shopping too? How many hours per week do they work for you?

And a driver...why would you need one?


----------



## Lunkan

JonL12345 said:


> I've been watching some real-estate videos on YouTube lately and lots of the places have a maid and drivers quarters. Can someone please clarify for me exactly what happens there and what the costs are? I get a cleaner around for 4 hours per week in the UK, at a cost of around £50 each time. So perhaps the equivalent word would be a maid in the Philippines? Or do they do cooking, and shopping too? How many hours per week do they work for you?
> 
> And a driver...why would you need one?


 You can get a fulll ime fr almst nothing 
Depending of location, Metro Manila and Metro Cebu have much higher salaries, MINIMUM are around double in Manila and 1 and half times in Cebu city compared to the rest of the Philippines where miniimum for a lve in is 
around only 2500 pesos per month plus livin space plus living space plus some normaly smaller things as e toothpaste and some basic heaöthcare
BUT I dont know if become law, but I saw suggestion employer have to pay healthcare or COVID, which can become expensive.

Thats minimum salaries. In provinces are many happy to get a job at all, while in Manila the better ones can cost much more to not get snatched by someone offering more  Some foreigners in big cities told they pay much more than minimum. 

There is a special law about Domstic Helpers regulating the minimums. 

For a DAY hireing, not live in, in province most will be happy for 400pesos per day. many earn less.

Beside live in Domestic helpers, in some situations employees expect to get food during work days, but I dont know much abput it other than it excist.


----------



## grahamw57

A live-in maid you will need to pay (to conform with the law) I believe around p5,000 a month now...in the city...plus food, etc, and social security contribution.

Province, a little cheaper. 

Still f.all compared with the UK. Just make sure they're not stealing more than the salary you're paying.


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## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> a driver...why would you need one?


You don't, if you're in the city they have Grab app which can get a service car or taxi in minutes.

If you're not in the city...good luck.


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## JonL12345

With a 5,000 per month maid, is that like a part-time job? Do they live full time in the maid quarters?


----------



## grahamw57

Full-time. Live-in.


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## JonL12345

Full-time, OMG! What are the typical duties for the maid? Washing laundry and cleaning house?


----------



## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> What are the typical duties for the maid?


Cleaning everything inside except the people (that would be a nanny for a child or a caregiver for adults).


----------



## JonL12345

Ok, so they don't do shopping or cooking then.


----------



## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> Ok, so they don't do shopping or cooking then.


I've seen some do both, some do neither, it all depends on what the contract is. From your POV it all sounds great, and it can be, but there's a big problem with getting any _quality _help, at least for expats. Even if you go through a service, much of the payment goes to the service and not the maid. Many younger women just use the service to get relocated and escape the province, many get tired of working after a few weeks and disappear. It's much easier for locals who generally send off a young relative or 'relative' to someone and they just live in and work because their education gets paid for, or they send money back to the family.

The place I'm in now has a maids quarters, right next to the laundry room and 'dirty kitchen'. It's small, the air is hot and the shower is cold, and while I know "it's much better than where they come from" I also don't care, I'm not putting anyone in there. 

I'd recommend getting live-out / stay-out help, at least initially.


----------



## JonL12345

In some ways I would feel a bit funny having a cleaner living in my house, even if their own quarters! There is less privacy. So getting someone to come in periodically appeals. Although perhaps having someone to clear evening meal stuff away appeals. My God, I could get so lazy out there!


----------



## art1946

When I lived in the Philippines I never had a maid. I am not use to them being in my house. I never used one in the states, so I never used one there. I do like my privacy also. At least with none there I never had to argue with one about things she was doing. hahahha

Art


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## JonL12345

How safe would it be for a foreigner to go to a bar on their own in say Cebu in the evening? I keep hearing people saying, "Stay safe" etc.


----------



## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> How safe would it be for a foreigner to go to a bar on their own in say Cebu in the evening?


Nobody will bother you except the ladyboys.


----------



## art1946

hey JonL

When I was in a night club in Cebu city a few years ago I had no problem. I made sure I was around people that could speak English. I never wondered off by myself. Always stay with people. Used common sense. Do not go into a small neighborhood bar. Keep to the larger nightclubs. Like Shadowman said there are a lot of ladyboys.

art


----------



## Maxx62

JonL12345 said:


> How safe would it be for a foreigner to go to a bar on their own in say Cebu in the evening? I keep hearing people saying, "Stay safe" etc.


Just don't show off by flashing cash or wearing too much expensive bling, and most likely you'll be fine. Also, don't get too drunk, and keep the volume down. Some of the locals tend to get jealous if they see a foreigner they think getting too wild.


----------



## Gary D

Maxx62 said:


> Just don't show off by flashing cash or wearing too much expensive bling, and most likely you'll be fine. Also, don't get too drunk, and keep the volume down. Some of the locals tend to get jealous if they see a foreigner they think getting too wild.


Filipino men also think they are gods gift to women so if you are causing too much attention from the ladies they can easily see it as a slight get a bit chippy. In the old days foreigners/servicemen had separate bars to the locals and the women could only enter accompanied by a foreigner. To stop the fights.


----------



## Shadowman

Gary D said:


> Filipino men also think they are gods gift to women


Never experienced this even once, maybe they stop thinking it when I'm around 🤷


----------



## Gary D

Shadowman said:


> Never experienced this even once, maybe they stop thinking it when I'm around 🤷


Or they don't consider you as competition


----------



## Shadowman

Gary D said:


> Or they don't consider you as competition


 Or I'm just less interested in what men think than you are.


----------



## Lunkan

grahamw57 said:


> A live-in maid you will need to pay (to conform with the law) I believe around p5,000 a month now...in the city...plus food, etc, and social security contribution.
> 
> Province, a little cheaper.


 As I wrote in my long post above, the minimum salaries in provinces are roughly HALF compared to Manila.
Concerning paying much more than mimum, I guess much more extra for the good ones in Manila and Cebu, because I suppouse harder fight to get the good ones there, while in provinces there are many more wanting each work.


JonL12345 said:


> Ok, so they don't do shopping or cooking then.


 "Domestic helpers" can do "anything" agreed in the contract. In provinces many jobs are almost 24//7 when they are nannies or caretakers of old people. E g one caretaker oif old a Filipina I know applied to but didnt get, was 24/7 geting ONE weekend free per MONTH...


art1946 said:


> When I lived in the Philippines I never had a maid. I am not use to them being in my house. I never used one in the states, so I never used one there. I do like my privacy also. At least with none there I never had to argue with one about things she was doing. hahahha


 Yes. It will be a condition to a wife - No domestic helper because of I dont want any gossiper inside my home. If wife ask nice  I can perhaps agree to "spring cleaning" assistance a few times per year. 
Not the first house with manufactory connected, but the second I plan to have two clear separate sections, where its ok to bring "anyone" the others want including cleaning, but NONE in the section with office and main living part. for me. Around 1000 sqfeet each.


Gary D said:


> Filipino men also think they are gods gift to women


 A straight talking Filipina intervied Filipino men about what they think about foreigners including foreigners geting Filipina women. Most answered:
-No problem. (There are plenty of Filipinas) anyway..
and some said:
-No problem at all. Foreigners take the ugly ones.

*Perhaps* they ment foreigners often aim at the slim ones, while its rather common Filipinos like fat people in general seeing that as a sign of wealth. They get supriced when I tell them in western countries its often the POOR who are obieced by eating much junk food.. 
Even in a local beaty contest I saw the results of, I thought "WHAT!" because the winner was extreemly fat, with baloon cheeks face.


----------



## Shadowman

Lunkan said:


> Foreigners take the ugly ones.
> 
> *Perhaps* they ment foreigners often aim at the slim ones, while its rather common Filipinos like fat people in general seeing that as a sign of wealth.


They meant the short brown ones, Filipinos prefer the tall white ones.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> I've been watching some real-estate videos on YouTube lately and lots of the places have a maid and drivers quarters. Can someone please clarify for me exactly what happens there and what the costs are? I get a cleaner around for 4 hours per week in the UK, at a cost of around £50 each time. So perhaps the equivalent word would be a maid in the Philippines? Or do they do cooking, and shopping too? How many hours per week do they work for you?
> 
> And a driver...why would you need one?


Maid service is not as cheap as you think. You don't want to use one maid and then give her all sorts of chores so a maid do the dishes and if there's more work such as laundry, bathroom and floors than you'll need at least two maids. Cook would be separate, she shops cooks and that's it, the pay would be 5,000 pesos each plus 13th month "Christmas" pay would be the same 5,000 pesos and if they get sick you'll end up footing the bill. Don't forget you'll also have to pay the SSS, and meals, they have to eat and 5,000 pesos won't cover their food costs, so more than likely they'll be joining you at the dinner table.

You'll have to work out the hours but usually they live with you because of the low wages and if they live with you, it's like another family member, you'll have to buy soap, shampoo the works and sometimes clothes.

Driver wages would be 10,000 pesos a month, not a good idea for an Expat to drive all sorts of liabilities if in sn accident with injuries, if you're going to live in the city I'd use a cab or public transportation unless you're blessed with a ton of cash.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> How safe would it be for a foreigner to go to a bar on their own in say Cebu in the evening? I keep hearing people saying, "Stay safe" etc.


Any time you're out and about in the evening hours it's a risk and probably not a bad idea to bring someone along with you. Not only stay safe but remain vigilant and don't let your guard down, so many unscrupulous characters watching and stalking you.


----------



## JonL12345

I am in my mid-50's but 6'2" tall. I know the average height of a Philippine man is 5'6". So I'm thinking, with such a height difference, are they still likely to want to cause threats?


----------



## Gary D

JonL12345 said:


> I am in my mid-50's but 6'2" tall. I know the average height of a Philippine man is 5'6". So I'm thinking, with such a height difference, are they still likely to want to cause threats?


And terriers are small dogs with an attitude problem.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> I am in my mid-50's but 6'2" tall. I know the average height of a Philippine man is 5'6". So I'm thinking, with such a height difference, are they still likely to want to cause threats?


I never had to much trouble with the men here, I had more trouble with men in the US, very aggressive towards my wfie. I don't see you having issues but if you get set up it'll be more than one man taking you down, example: 

Subic Bay 1985 - 87, I was attacked by a gang of teenagers in the middle of an intersection and other citizens walking around but nobody even looked at me as I was robbed of my wallet while still throwing punches. Another time I was held up in a bar, the guy had a knife under the table and I was surrounded and the bar filled up all around me... that's how it happens so you won't be in a fight with one man it'll be a gang, they practice taking your wallet, distracting you in numbers.


----------



## Gary D

M.C.A. said:


> I never had to much trouble with the men here, I had more trouble with men in the US, very aggressive towards my wfie. I don't see you having issues but if you get set up it'll be more than one man taking you down, example:
> 
> Subic Bay 1985 - 87, I was attacked by a gang of teenagers in the middle of an intersection and other citizens walking around but nobody even looked at me as I was robbed of my wallet while still throwing punches. Another time I was held up in a bar, the guy had a knife under the table and I was surrounded and the bar filled up all around me... that's how it happens so you won't be in a fight with one man it'll be a gang, they practice taking your wallet, distracting you in numbers.


And if you do get in a fight with a local, even in the right, other could easily join in and not on your side. Beating the living daylights out of a local will not end well.


----------



## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> I am in my mid-50's but 6'2" tall. I know the average height of a Philippine man is 5'6". So I'm thinking, with such a height difference, are they still likely to want to cause threats?


In the PH there are different kind of threats, and your size is irrelevant because they generally don't involve physical altercations since that the locals here, even the criminals, are almost always non-aggressive towards foreigners (unless personally provoked).

Besides breaking into any unguarded house left vacant, expats only have to worry about pickpockets, who are generally street kids, and 'snatchers' who are usually riding motors, sometimes those mini-trucks. It's always best to walk on the side of street facing _towards _the traffic, so they can't roll up and snatch a phone from your hand, a bag from your arm, etc, and then drive away.


----------



## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> Maid service is not as cheap as you think. You don't want to use one maid and then giver her all sorts of chores so you'd have a maid do the dishes and if there's more work such as laundry, bathroom and floors than you'll need at least two maids. Cook would be separate, she shops and cooks and that's it, the pay would be 5,000 pesos each plus 13th month "Christmas" pay of 5,000 pesos and if they get sick you'll end up footing the bill. Don't forget you'll also have to pay the SSS, and meals, they have to eat and 5,000 pesos won't cover their food costs, so more than likely they'll be joining you at the dinner table.
> 
> You'll have to work out the hours but usually they live with you due to the costs of living and low wages and if they live with you, it's like another family member, you'll have to buy soap, shampoo the works and sometimes clothes.


Wel. Perhaps several for foreigners  or for big hopuseholds, but many Filipinos expect ONE maid doing all and with very few free days.

Minimum 5,000p for live in is in MANILA. 
The Domestic helper law say the money PLUS meals when live in. So perhaps it cost less to have a live OUT for 7000p per month in province. Sure worse for the maid to be live out if she will need to solve room for that too. The law say employer HAVE TO bu y soap and such for live in maids. 


JonL12345 said:


> I am in my mid-50's but 6'2" tall. I know the average height of a Philippine man is 5'6". So I'm thinking, with such a height difference, are they still likely to want to cause threats?


 Well. IF it become fight then expect they have knives or guns so your size would make easier to hit 
But your size reduce risk they wil chose you as target *if not provoced.* 
The "Lose face" culture can add risk IF you confront a Filipino by they can feel they have to fight even if thy dont want to. 
Guns are very common in Phils at least in cities. Rural is common with bolos (=similar to machetes). 
My friend is even taller than you and have compeeted in national championships in heavy weight lift, so they wouldnt CHOSE him as target,
BUT once he confronted a terrible behaving man, who got scared and backed offf, but shouted threats when he fled  Gf to my friend got very scared by the confronted knew where they lived (temporary) so she expected an attack with guns, but nothing happened, perhaps depending of they were guests to a local powerful man and lived in one of his houses. 
Better noit confront anyway, specialy if its a drunk.


----------



## JonL12345

Perhaps I should stay indoors in the evenings instead!


----------



## art1946

hey JonL

Remember (David took down Goliath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Don't be fooled by your height and the Filipino height.

art


----------



## JonL12345

I'm not fooled. I was talking about deterrent rather than an actual maul. 

A terrier will go for your ankles!

It was really a question of whether I would have the freedom of enjoying an evening out without too much risk.


----------



## art1946

you would be okay out for the evening unless you ran into David. hahahahha Just joking!!

art


----------



## Gary D

JonL12345 said:


> Perhaps I should stay indoors in the evenings instead!


Yes many do.


----------



## art1946

when I lived there I never wondered out at night. A person is asking for trouble by being out at night. I stayed at home and kept my doors locked. 

art


----------



## Maxx62

Well, since we somehow got onto the topic of ladies you might meet inside a bar, be sure to ask any woman you meet inside a bar if she's married, before you decide to go outside the bar with her. A common scam used to be that you'd meet a girl in a bar, she takes you to a nearby hotel, and just when you're about to seal the deal, her "husband" barges in with a few of his friends. Well, technically adultery can be a serious crime, under certain circumstances in the Philippines, but what do you know, the husband is willing to let the whole thing go if you'll just cough up 40,000 Php. This has never happened to me, but I've heard of it happening to others, and I guess it is fairly common throughout a lot of Southeast Asia. - Also, someone mentioned the topic of getting into a fist fight over here. You maybe bigger than anyone else, but the locals do not fight fair, and they will always pull out knives or guns when the fighting starts. Generally speaking the bar owner doesn't want the locals to pick on foreigners in his establishment, because it is bad for business, but if push comes to shove, do your best to avoid escalating things into a full blown fight. However, if it cannot be avoided, it is best to let the other guy throw the first punch, and then when that happens, you try and knock him out with a straight jab on the tip of his chin. If you can knock the other guy out real quick, then his friends will be surprised, and you might have a chance of getting out before anyone realizes what is happening. However, best to avoid physical conflicts, because they don't fight fair, and a lot of locals carry awls, knives, or even illegal guns.


----------



## grahamw57

In the Philippines an offence of 'Adultery' applies to the woman. For men it's 'Concubinage'.  Not always easy to prove either. 









Proof needed to pursue case of concubinage


Persida AcostaDear PAO,I saw messages on my husband’s mobile phone that clearly insinuates that a woman was flirting with him. I do not know who this woman is and my husband told...




www.manilatimes.net


----------



## Hey_Joe

Maxx62 said:


> Well, since we somehow got onto the topic of ladies you might meet inside a bar, be sure to ask any woman you meet inside a bar if she's married, before you decide to go outside the bar with her.


Highly unlikely they will admit being married or have a boyfriend. One also has use caution as alias names are used, fake or borrowed birth certificates are used, wrong age, no children or the number of children.



Maxx62 said:


> A common scam used to be that you'd meet a girl in a bar, she takes you to a nearby hotel, and just when you're about to seal the deal, her "husband" barges in with a few of his friends. Well, technically adultery can be a serious crime, under certain circumstances in the Philippines, but what do you know, the husband is willing to let the whole thing go if you'll just cough up 40,000 Php. This has never happened to me, but I've heard of it happening to others,


This was one of many scams used in the past but the law changed. The husband would now have to seek prosecution of both the wife and the paramour.

"The offended party cannot institute criminal prosecution without including both the guilty parties, 
SOURCE: http://legacy.senate.gov.ph/lisdata/88367377!.pdf


----------



## Hey_Joe

grahamw57 said:


> In the Philippines an offence of 'Adultery' applies to the woman. For men it's 'Concubinage'.  Not always easy to prove either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof needed to pursue case of concubinage
> 
> 
> Persida AcostaDear PAO,I saw messages on my husband’s mobile phone that clearly insinuates that a woman was flirting with him. I do not know who this woman is and my husband told...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.manilatimes.net


In the situation mentioned in the above post, the offender would be considered a paramour. And if the husband filed charges against both then the paramour shall be subjected to such punishment if found guilty.
SOURCE: https://ndvlaw.com/how-to-sue-your-wife-for-adultery-in-the-philippines/

Note that this foreigner was not facing 7years in prison for concubinage but for "adultery" as he was the paramour.
SOURCE: British man facing seven years in Filipino jail for adultery goes into hiding


----------



## grahamw57

Hey_Joe said:


> In the situation mentioned in the above post, the offender would be considered a paramour. And if the husband filed charges against both then the paramour shall be subjected to such punishment if found guilty.
> SOURCE: https://ndvlaw.com/how-to-sue-your-wife-for-adultery-in-the-philippines/
> 
> Note that this foreigner was not facing 7years in prison for concubinage but for "adultery" as he was the paramour.
> SOURCE: British man facing seven years in Filipino jail for adultery goes into hiding


That was a long time ago. I wonder what happened to that (rather naive) British gentleman.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> I'm not fooled. I was talking about deterrent rather than an actual maul.
> 
> A terrier will go for your ankles!
> 
> It was really a question of whether I would have the freedom of enjoying an evening out without too much risk.


Evening life is Western life thing ....this is the tropics, there are many pool resorts ect.. and they have lodging so that would be a cool spot to hang out, drink meet people.


----------



## grahamw57

An update on the above (David Scott) case:


----------



## grahamw57

I suppose the moral to the above story is, best cover your dick until you've found your feet, or at least know your arse from your elbow.


----------



## JonL12345

art1946 said:


> when I lived there I never wondered out at night. A person is asking for trouble by being out at night. I stayed at home and kept my doors locked.


So going out for an evening meal is a no-no?


----------



## grahamw57

My friend, I have been living in and visiting the Philippines (including both Cebu and Manila) for 31 years now.

Of course you can eat out in the evenings. Ignore the fear-mongering nonsense, and just use a bit of common sense. You'll be fine. 

I tell you what. I feel safer here when out in the evening than I do back home in the UK !


----------



## Lunkan

As said there are safe places and there are not safe places. And there are safe places if not act unwice 

Better find woman ELSEWHERE than in bars anyway. There are a lot of such elsewhere too  
Then you can go out wih HER if you want to spend evenins out.

An other alternative from city "life out" are fiestas in provinces. Almost all rural baranggays have such as well as there are other special party events. Many Filipnos love to party  If you find some reliable friends you can be with them at the paties they go to. BUT expect it will be you who pay  if going to establishmnts. But there are many smaller private parties too e g with whole grilled piglets.


----------



## JonL12345

So you are much safer if you go out with your Filipino girlfriend? The locals would then tend to leave you alone?


----------



## Hey_Joe

JonL12345 said:


> So you are much safer if you go out with your Filipino girlfriend? The locals would then tend to leave you alone?


If ever and/or when they do allow tourists to return to the PI, where do you plan to visit?


----------



## grahamw57

JonL12345 said:


> So you are much safer if you go out with your Filipino girlfriend? The locals would then tend to leave you alone?


 Probably, but the locals leave me alone anyway, perhaps because I don't get drunk and act like a dick ?
That will attract unwanted attention anywhere in the world... but yes, if alone, better to patronise the popular expat venues in the area, and use trikes for longer distances in between them.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> So going out for an evening meal is a no-no?


A couple times we ate out late at McDonald's but like I mentioned I don't have too many good stories about running around at night time here, drinking and drugs make for a bad company and they do get hungry also, and if you happen to be around them out and about you will find yourself in trouble.

A couple of Expats got shot at our nearest McDonald's it was late at night and there was some sort of arguing over knocking into the Expat and citizen shot both Expats, only one lived. So much for the armed security guard, never feel safe around them would be my reply, they won't die for the pay they receive.

You keep thinking like a Westerner and you need change that somehow... this isn't the same and you don't have to follow the same rules about anything, especially women, you'll have zero trouble in meeting a beautiful lady, if you are able to breath air in and out of your nostrils... you'll meet a beautiful woman, don't you want a different life than the same ole Western rules. You can meet women anywhere, the bar would not be a good spot.


----------



## grahamw57

Of course the west is so safe: 
.





Chicago police: Groups of teens attacking, robbing pedestrians in Loop


Chicago police say groups of teenagers are violently ambushing pedestrians downtown and stealing their personal property.




www.fox32chicago.com


----------



## JonL12345

Hey_Joe said:


> If ever and/or when they do allow tourists to return to the PI, where do you plan to visit?


The place that keeps cropping up on YouTube is Cebu, so probably there.


----------



## JonL12345

M.C.A. said:


> You keep thinking like a Westerner and you need change that somehow... this isn't the same and you don't have to follow the same rules about anything, especially women, you'll have zero trouble in meeting a beautiful lady, if you are able to breath air in and out of your nostrils... you'll meet a beautiful woman, don't you want a different life than the same ole Western rules. You can meet women anywhere, the bar would not be a good spot.


I keep thinking like a Westerner because I am one. But not sure what I am thinking that requires change. Just asking questions to understand the place better. Rationality is the same, wherever you are. I pass the breathing air through my nostrils part, so perhaps my luck will be in. The appeal of meeting a beautiful woman is huge. I think it would be for most single men. I'm not sure what the Western rules are. I always do my own independent thinking and try to construct my life according to my values, rather than the herd. Perhaps there is an element of that to most of the people who retire to the Philippines, because they have taken a different route than most, a more adventurous route. They have been thinking outside the box and strayed from convention.

In the UK, going for a drink in a pub is a national pastime. Maybe it is the same in the Philippines.

In a typical day walking around say a place like Cebu, are you likely to see expats?


----------



## JonL12345

I just came across this website: How Safe Is Cebu City for Travel? (2021 Updated) ⋆ Travel Safe - Abroad

Interesting breakdown of the risks. Not sure if anyone here agrees with their assessment or not?


----------



## Lunkan

JonL12345 said:


> The place that keeps cropping up on YouTube is Cebu, so probably there.


 I guess because many more people live there than in smaller cities and province 
Thats why its much polluted as Manila too.
Some interesting things to visit, but I wouldnt live there. If wanting city, there are many other cities e g Davao, Baguio and Dumagute where many foreigners live too. 

Cebuanos are LOUD, some even shput when they "talk". I tried to have a videovall with a Cebuna once, but a common day people living there all NOT angry shouted - except the small kids, who seened to have given up to try to be heared 



JonL12345 said:


> I keep thinking like a Westerner because I am one. But not sure what I am thinking that requires change. Just asking questions to understand the place better. Rationality is the same, wherever you are. I pass the breathing air through my nostrils part, so perhaps my luck will be in. The appeal of meeting a beautiful woman is huge. I think it would be for most single men. I'm not sure what the Western rules are. I always do my own independent thinking and try to construct my life according to my values, rather than the herd.


 Well. You will be in Phils so you will need to change some to get best chance:
/"Lose face" culture. Very serious and can even be dangerous. 
There is even a law against making people lose face. *Even if telling the truth it can be seen as a crime. *
E g 
/a foreigner got in conflict with a terible neighbour and it became a barangay"court" which have some jurisdiction, the baranggay made a big spectacle of it crowded with spectators. But they decided in favor FOR the foreigner ,the Filipino neighbour were made fool , I GUESS the court leader didnt like that terrible neighbour neither 🤣 
/Monday a week ago a WIFE had got called to such court by mother-in-law for "lose face" because the wife had reported the husband for abuse against their daugters!!! I dont know how it ended.

/Many in cities can be rather "westericed" , but specialy in provinces it can be as 90 - 120 years ago in our home countries concerning (startup of) relations. 

/Expect ineffectivity specialy within public service. Worse than in our home countries 

But Im trying to make a change in a small "buble" in our business anyway  with a MIX of Filipino and Swedish thinking.



JonL12345 said:


> Perhaps there is an element of that to most of the people who retire to the Philippines, because they have taken a different route than man, a more adventurous route. They have been thinking outside the box and strayed from convention


 Well. Some have chosed adventure
some just want calm in warn country but socialice with Filipinos
and some just sociallice with other foreigners in a subdivisions, similar to home but in a warmer climate it seem not knowing much about life outside their subdivision 🤣


JonL12345 said:


> In the UK, going for a drink in a pub is a national pastime. Maybe it is the same in the Philippines.


 I never go to such.



JonL12345 said:


> In a typical day walking around say a place like Cebu, are you likely to see expats?


 Depending of which part but probably Yes by there are rather many foreigners there.
To be sure to see foreigners you can go to the "Gold diggers hunting foreigners" mall  I have forgot the name.


----------



## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> In a typical day walking around say a place like Cebu, are you likely to see expats?


Not anymore


----------



## JonL12345

Haha, because of Covid?


----------



## Shadowman

JonL12345 said:


> Haha, because of Covid?


You got it.  House rental prices in the city subdivisions haven't been this low in years.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

JonL12345 said:


> I just came across this website: How Safe Is Cebu City for Travel? (2021 Updated) ⋆ Travel Safe - Abroad
> 
> Interesting breakdown of the risks. Not sure if anyone here agrees with their assessment or not?



I read the review and I read the comments.

I could change the name of the city and make a similar review for just about every city in the world. 

It's always hilarious to me when some genius writes "Don't walk down dark alleys or go to the bad neighborhoods at night" Do tell...

I have had more people try to pick my pockets in Italy than I ever have in Manila but for some others they have had run ins with unsavory characters here in beautiful Metro Manila.

There is a very good reason why so many members on this forum, and others, are consistent in saying "boots on the ground" and "use common sense". See the places that look interesting and be careful, especially if traveling alone!


----------



## bigpearl

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I read the review and I read the comments.
> 
> I could change the name of the city and make a similar review for just about every city in the world.
> 
> It's always hilarious to me when some genius writes "Don't walk down dark alleys or go to the bad neighborhoods at night" Do tell...
> 
> I have had more people try to pick my pockets in Italy than I ever have in Manila but for some others they have had run ins with unsavory characters here in beautiful Metro Manila.
> 
> There is a very good reason why so many members on this forum, and others, are consistent in saying "boots on the ground" and "use common sense". See the places that look interesting and be careful, especially if traveling alone!


Yep I would agree with pick pockets as well as beggars in Rome but not other cities there, the sad thing is all the beggars around the walls of the wealthiest institution on earth that teaches love and compassion being constantly moved on by the constabulary.
I never had any problems in Manila and I did a lot of walking/investigating but chose in the end my comfort zone away from a large city.

I have to laugh at JonL's comment in post #141. "Rationality is the same, wherever you are". OMO but rationality is very very different here in the Philippines, city or province.
100% agree with boots on the ground, suck it and see before you commit etc.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Maxx62

But, when you get right down to it, the Philippines is a great place to go party and let off some steam, but it is simply not a good place to live on a long term basis, and eventually your luck will run out. Eventually someone who is desperate will spot you as an opportunity to be exploited, and when that happens, all of the cards are going to be stacked against you, because you are a foreigner, and as everyone in the PI knows, all foreigners are rich. 

Visit there as much as you like, but under no circumstances would I ever recommend anyone set down roots with the intent of spending their retirement years there. No matter how wealthy you are, you will never have enough money to buy everyone's friendship, and eventually one day realize that the rules of the game are completely different for you than they are for everyone else around you. 

Also, I see that there has been some apples to oranges comparisons regarding crime in big cities in the Philippines, and other large cities in other parts of the world. Sure, if I'm walking around in Makati or Lahug, then the odds of me being robbed are much lower than they would be in New York or Los Angeles. But try going for a walk around Osmena Circle at night (Cebu City) or some bad areas in Quezon City, then your chances of getting robbed are probably higher than what they'd be in a large western city. 

When looking at the Philippines, it is important to take off the tourist glasses and to realize what is really going on around you.


----------



## bigpearl

Maxx62 said:


> But, when you get right down to it, the Philippines is a great place to go party and let off some steam, but it is simply not a good place to live on a long term basis, and eventually your luck will run out. Eventually someone who is desperate will spot you as an opportunity to be exploited, and when that happens, all of the cards are going to be stacked against you, because you are a foreigner, and as everyone in the PI knows, all foreigners are rich.
> 
> So is Patong, Thailand or George Street, Sydney Australia and if you hang out in those places you will be exploited every time you venture there with cash. Remember most here have retired with their better half and do live here on a permanent basis, don't frequent girly or boy bars, are extremely aware of their surroundings and don't play cards with the locals and rarely drink with them.
> 
> Visit there as much as you like, but under no circumstances would I ever recommend anyone set down roots with the intent of spending their retirement years there. No matter how wealthy you are, you will never have enough money to buy everyone's friendship, and eventually one day realize that the rules of the game are completely different for you than they are for everyone else around you.
> 
> Say's a man that built a house here? Buy friendship? Friendship can't be purchased. Things can go south very quickly here for the naive, the old saying "boots on the ground, taste the dirt" for many years, not just a couple of rose coloured tourist jaunts. Rules and escape plans rings a bell. Eggs in one basket another.
> 
> Also, I see that there has been some apples to oranges comparisons regarding crime in big cities in the Philippines, and other large cities in other parts of the world. Sure, if I'm walking around in Makati or Lahug, then the odds of me being robbed are much lower than they would be in New York or Los Angeles. But try going for a walk around Osmena Circle at night (Cebu City) or some bad areas in Quezon City, then your chances of getting robbed are probably higher than what they'd be in a large western city.
> 
> Places to avoid. Common sense, research etc.
> 
> When looking at the Philippines, it is important to take off the tourist glasses and to realize what is really going on around you.


As most of us do but hey, never say never, hence escape plans/protection.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> I keep thinking like a Westerner because I am one.
> 
> In the UK, going for a drink in a pub is a national pastime. Maybe it is the same in the Philippines.


There are some books on Philippine culture that could be real helpful in explaining mannerisms, there's no yes or no, many do's and dont's.

Evening drink at a Pub would only be in a large city and if at a Pub then it's probably owned by a fellow Expat (not too many); Provincial area's, Expats meet in smaller cities once a week but it only seems to be on a designated day, it's Wednesday in our area, its too far for for me and a 45 min ride each way, so I've never participated.

Another big negative for newly arriving Expats is that they pay way too much for rentals, they sign contracts (Western practices) and everyone is on the take for the extra money, this ends up raising the costs for other Expats. It could be hard to avoid contracts if in the city and be careful because if you have troubles with the landlord (apartment issues/personality conflicts/noise/didn't get what you asked for) you could also end up being Black mailed into staying in it or a huge fee for leaving early or threatened to be reported to Immigration.

There's no advocacy groups here.


----------



## Tiz

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I have had more people try to pick my pockets in Italy than I ever have in Manila


LOL. Me too and I've only spent about 15 days in Italy, but been here in Manila for over 6 years.

A group tried to rob me in Naples about 20 years ago, but nobody ever tried here.


----------



## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> Another big negative for somebody new here is that they pay way too much for rentals,


 Yes, very common (by many foreigners are stupid  or dont bother they pay to much.) 

Not all Filipinos are like that though. E g one had same price to me as for Filipinos (2500 pesos per MONTH for a small studio type in ok quality. Raised to 3000 before covid started. Can be booked monthly if they have any unoccupied.)



M.C.A. said:


> this ends up raising the costs for other Expats.


 Yes, spreading the reputation foreigners are easy to fool to pay to much.
Its common Filipnos have the oppinion "If the foreigner is to stupid to not knowin the price is to hi, then its his own fault."
BUT its also rather common Filipinos respect foreigners, who act nice and know what they are doing, and ask the normal "Filipino" price.
Or just "viote with your boot" =Go elsewhere and buy if they ask to much.

Concerning biger things as a long time rent, it can be a good "investment"  to get a Filipina gf to negotiate for the foreigner or perhaps even better make the deal.

(E g when we are buying businesses in Phils, its my Filipino busines patner fronting, Im just a mysterious "not accepting BS Financiere"  to scare with wanting to file case, when one seller tried to add a ridicilous demand after the agrement was made! I told my Filipino business partner he can allways show he is nice and blame me if there will be any hard words said.
Beside my Filipino business partner, very few Filipinos know its a foreigner involved. Among them two brokers, who I knew before I got to know my business partner. I believe they dont ask any higher price from me because they ask low prices. One we woould have bought from if an other buyer hadnt been faster  It was sold in a day, I believe for other purpouse than we are buying because there are two other valuable assets at that propery too than them we aim at mainly.)


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

bigpearl said:


> Yep I would agree with pick pockets as well as beggars in Rome but not other cities there, the sad thing is all the beggars around the walls of the wealthiest institution on earth that teaches love and compassion being constantly moved on by the constabulary.
> I never had any problems in Manila and I did a lot of walking/investigating but chose in the end my comfort zone away from a large city.
> 
> I have to laugh at JonL's comment in post #141. "Rationality is the same, wherever you are". OMO but rationality is very very different here in the Philippines, city or province.
> 100% agree with boots on the ground, suck it and see before you commit etc.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Florence and Milan was where they tried me and of course, on the trains trying to help you with your bags! 

In my youth I visited some of the not so nice places here in Manila and yet remained unscathed because even then those simple rules applied.

I self-deprecate on living in Manila because I appreciate that there is more than one type of wonderful existence in this country. I would never question where or how someone else chooses to make their life. I am mapping my route to San Fernando so let me know if you need anything from the big city! 

We all know that some facets of life here can only be experienced in person.

Be well Steve!


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

Tiz said:


> LOL. Me too and I've only spent about 15 days in Italy, but been here in Manila for over 6 years.
> 
> A group tried to rob me in Naples about 20 years ago, but nobody ever tried here.


As I mentioned in my response to Steve, I was further North when they tried!

I passed through Naples twice on my way to Amalfi - never felt compelled to stop beyond showing my wife the ruins at Pompeii. Great art on the walls!


----------



## JonL12345

bigpearl said:


> I have to laugh at JonL's comment in post #141. "Rationality is the same, wherever you are". OMO but rationality is very very different here in the Philippines, city or province.
> 100% agree with boots on the ground, suck it and see before you commit etc.


Steve, perhaps you misunderstood me. Rationality is looking at things objectively. Just because things are different in the Philippines, doesn't mean you cannot look at things objectively. If people behave more irrationally in the Philippines by Western standards, which I think might be your implication, then you factor that in if you look at things rationally. To be irrational would be to not factor that in. Perhaps what you think I meant was that Filipinos think the same way as Westerners, which was not my meaning at all.


----------



## JonL12345

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I have had more people try to pick my pockets in Italy than I ever have in Manila but for some others they have had run ins with unsavory characters here in beautiful Metro Manila.


A friend of mine in Rome was surrounded by about 10 kids, all waving bits of paper in his face. Later, he found they stole his wallet. Back at his hostel, he told them he was robbed and he couldn't pay, so 3 guys surrounded him and took his watch off him by force.


----------



## Lunkan

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I would never question where or how someone else chooses to make their life.


 Me too, but I question when someone claim BS as e g large cities have clean air 

One of Shadows repeeted lies was he claimed I "promote rural living because I have investments there"!!!
I dont want people to move rural because I want much space for myself  and I prefer if such BEEP people, who claim such BS as e g cities has clean air, stay in cities 🤣


----------



## JonL12345

Lunkan said:


> ...to get a Filipina gf to negotiate for the foreigner or perhaps even better make the deal.


Very good idea. Perhaps even incentivise them by giving them $X for every $Y you save.


----------



## Lunkan

JonL12345 said:


> Steve, perhaps you misunderstood me. Rationality is looking at things objectively. Just because things are different in the Philippines, doesn't mean you cannot look at things objectively. If people behave more irrationally in the Philippines by Western standards, which I think might be your implication, then you factor that in if you look at things rationally. To be irrational would be to not factor that in. Perhaps what you think I meant was that Filipinos think the same way as Westerners, which was not my meaning at all.


 You are sure correct partly (as the examples I wrote somewhere about GOOD things in Phils different from western standard)
BUT Philippines is falling behind other SE Asian countries partly depending of them in power want to hold poor people down of selfish reasons
but the poor LET these rich selfish people keep the power. I blaim big part of that at - in difference from the other SE Asian countries - the Philippines is CATHOLIC and the church have histoirical taken side with the RICH telling the poor to obey them in power AND the church sabotage* logic thinking. * Average Filipinos are very bad at thinking logic, but I have found some good exceptions, LOW educated who managed to figuere out how to solve a complicated calculation by logic thinking 👍 which a MASTER examed in that subject failed to solve!!! 
It was partly similar problem with protestant church e g in Sweden too until around 120 years ago.
There are similar problem with logic thinking for other religious "fanatics" too because if they would have good logic thinking, thenthey wouldnt be "fanatic" believers anymore  
I DID believe in God when I were kid, but I found out by logic thinking when I were 6 -7 yo  it cant be as church tell... 
*Terrible logic thinking make big problems for many small business owners in Phils*, because many dont even understand a basic thing as "Supply and Demand" ( = Simplified. To get a succesful business the amount of customers need to be enough compared with the competition.) Filipinos are very GOOD at copying GOOD business ideas, but most* copy to close* to the oirigin so everyone lose including the earlier good earner they copied by it become to few customers for each which start a price war... 
E g long time ago a Filipina I know started selling load at an island with around 200 houses and she earned rather good (in Filipino mesure and even if count per hour work rather good in western mesure because so few hours work per month.) Then a bunch of others noticed and started selling load too at SAME small island, so all earned bad, even lose by one sold even under the buy price to get anything sold..
So it dont help to understand this when others come and sabotage by copying o close...

If starting any business in Phils with success chance it has to be 
/production with market elsewhere
/or something few Filipinos can copy by it cost to much and the rich ones arent interested in such business
/or something few have the skill to do.
/or few have the needed knowledge. But its risk many will find out by gossip 

((Im copying ideas too (and modify them when needed) but I dont copy to close  The busines Im starting now its *production* so no problem if there are more such close as long as not geting shortage of raw material or skilled workers, because the main market is elsewhere anyway. And Phils is short of such products so no problem for other businesses by we start.
IF we will start an other related business later though, much to expenive to start for more than a few Filipinos regionaly, THEN we will perhaps get problem by its possible some rich Filipinos can be interested in such business and powerful Filipinos can make big problems, which perhaps make we will not start that. Better when rich powerful Filipinos dont bother about us


----------



## grahamw57

JonL12345 said:


> A friend of mine in Rome was surrounded by about 10 kids, all waving bits of paper in his face. Later, he found they stole his wallet


To be fair, this sort of thing (exactly same M.O.) does happen to foreigners in some (touristy) parts of Manila, Cebu, and Angeles City. 
'Forewarned is forearmed' though, and just keep your wits about you, and put your wallet, etc, where they can't be grabbed ! Pretty simple really. I have one or two concealed pockets for my cash and other important stuff. A seamstress will add them to your shorts or jacket, for very small cost...especially in the Philippines. I learned my lesson 30+ years ago in Manila, when my pocket was picked by kids, since then... 'wala'. 

Oh, I also wear one of these. Okay pickpockets... find it !  
.


----------



## M.C.A.

grahamw57 said:


> To be fair, this sort of thing (exactly same M.O.) does happen to foreigners in some (touristy) parts of Manila, Cebu, and Angeles City.
> 'Forewarned is forearmed' though, and just keep your wits about you, and put your wallet, etc, where they can't be grabbed ! Pretty simple really. I have one or two concealed pockets for my cash and other important stuff. A seamstress will add them to your shorts or jacket, for very small cost...especially in the Philippines. I learned my lesson 30+ years ago in Manila, when my pocket was picked by kids, since then... 'wala'.


My wallet has changed over the years, it went from the traditional wallet and photo's to a mini type change bag for my currency/coins and a metal wallet for my ID/ATM cards.


----------



## Lunkan

JonL12345 said:


> Very good idea. Perhaps even incentivise them by giving them $X for every $Y you save.


 Yes. Or marry her 

E g I know a loveable Filipina with good sence to find good opportunities, but she made some big losses (in her messure) in her business before I tought her how to sort away them with to big risk compared to the potential. I just gave her two hints how to change her thinking about risk judgement and what type to look for instead with much lower risks. The rest she figuered out herself so good so (before covid) she earned very good 👍 and worked only 2-4 days per month when she collected her shares of the projects she started and financed plus the time when she looked for new opportunities.
But she is occupied by foreign boyfriend 😭 BUT he hasnt proposed to her in many years, so if I get there in time I will ask so I dont tell where she can be found  She is a bit over 30 when Filipinas start thinking they are to old to get any marriage proposal...
But there are more such good with money Filipinas e g one married to a foreigner with low SSS, who let her handle the money because she is much better than him at such he say himself  It seem true because at his low SSS she has managed to build a two storey house and bought a cheap functioning car - well mostly functioning  They decide biger things together but he leave nuch of the details to her to decide. 
But there are some other unmarried ones too.


----------



## JonL12345

grahamw57 said:


> I have one or two concealed pockets for my cash and other important stuff. A seamstress will add them to your shorts or jacket, for very small cost...


Great idea!


----------



## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> My wallet has changed over the years, it went from the traditional wallet and photo's to a mini type change bag for my currency/coins and a metal wallet for my ID/ATM cards.


 When in crowds or elsewhere I can drop it, I use a wallet type which has a key chain connected. Instead of using it as key chain I use that part to connect it to my trousers before I put it in my pocket so to lose it they have to break my trousers, which I suppouse I would notice 
(Or they would need to use a chain cutter which I suppouse I would notice too.)
I havent lost any in over fifty years since I started using such anyway, just replaced them when they got worned out. 

Common walles are easy to snatch specialy if carried in back pocket. As kid I did it with friends just to joke with them


----------



## Maxx62

What it really boils down to is the fact many foreigners living in the Philippines develop a false sense of security, and they "feel" safe, but the problem is that they aren't always aware of a growing threat lurking just around the corner. 

Sure, if you avoid bad areas then you're somewhat less likely to be robbed or mugged, but it does happen. A while back a college girl from the West got raped and beaten, after she decided to go for an early morning jog along the beach near my place. She probably felt safe, she probably felt in tune with the local culture, but when they caught the rapists (several of them) they said that they had never had a blond woman before, and they wanted to try one. So, she misjudged the situation, and she paid a horrible price.

However, I admit that street crime isn't the biggest problem, and the real issue is scammers who will observe you as yo live in your house, and then they will cook up a way to cheat you out of everything with a fake deed, or some random woman you've never met before, who is now claiming that you got her pregnant twenty years ago, and now you need to pay her off. These are the sorts of things which make it difficult, if not impossible, for foreigners to live in the Philippines long term.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

Maxx62 said:


> However, I admit that street crime isn't the biggest problem, and the real issue is scammers who will observe you as yo live in your house, and then they will cook up a way to cheat you out of everything with a fake deed, or some random woman you've never met before, who is now claiming that you got her pregnant twenty years ago, and now you need to pay her off. These are the sorts of things which make it difficult, if not impossible, for foreigners to live in the Philippines long term.


I feel sorry for any expat gullible enough to be taken in by such scams...

One of my good friends who is an educated professional paid a girl for an abortion and then of course he found out later that she was never even pregnant. I advised him, as did others, to get a lawyer but he paid her to go away in his mind.


----------



## bigpearl

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Florence and Milan was where they tried me and of course, on the trains trying to help you with your bags!
> 
> In my youth I visited some of the not so nice places here in Manila and yet remained unscathed because even then those simple rules applied.
> 
> I self-deprecate on living in Manila because I appreciate that there is more than one type of wonderful existence in this country. I would never question where or how someone else chooses to make their life. I am mapping my route to San Fernando so let me know if you need anything from the big city!
> 
> We all know that some facets of life here can only be experienced in person.
> 
> Be well Steve!


Thanks for your kind offer Tyrion, appreciate it very much, how about half a dozen dancing girls? Joking mate. Generally we can get most things we need here lol "in the province". That might end up being a standing joke here to be quoted from time to time. The odd things we can't get we order online and never a problem.
I tried to purchase a new 16 inch MacBook Pro here a week ago, Baguio, Manila etc and advised that they could not supply as no stock of 16 inch for over a year but plenty of 13 inch, too small for old eyes, my 15" is 6 years old now and starting to play up. Anyway I had to order it from Singapore and a month wait.

Italy is my favourite country, visited 3 times now, drove in hire car from Switzerland about 14 years ago and the month I spent there fell in love, 11 years ago on another trip ended up with a hire car in Sicily for a week, shove it on the ferry and 3 more weeks traveling the south west and back up to Rome. 3rd trip 7 years ago with the better half was no car and pretty much day trips in and around Rome for a couple of weeks,,,,,, pick pockets etc.
Honestly if I didn't have a Filipino better half I would have retired in the south in Italy,,,,, second choice the south of France.

How do you go with health and border control clearances travelling from Manila? What's involved?
BTW any news on when Ikea will officially open?
Again thanks for your kind offer.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## grahamw57

I used to go skiing in Northern Italy (Cervinia) in my younger days. Italian food is still my favourite. 

I believe Ikea are still interviewing . 






.
.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

bigpearl said:


> Thanks for your kind offer Tyrion, appreciate it very much, how about half a dozen dancing girls? Joking mate. Generally we can get most things we need here lol "in the province". That might end up being a standing joke here to be quoted from time to time. The odd things we can't get we order online and never a problem.
> I tried to purchase a new 16 inch MacBook Pro here a week ago, Baguio, Manila etc and advised that they could not supply as no stock of 16 inch for over a year but plenty of 13 inch, too small for old eyes, my 15" is 6 years old now and starting to play up. Anyway I had to order it from Singapore and a month wait.
> 
> Italy is my favourite country, visited 3 times now, drove in hire car from Switzerland about 14 years ago and the month I spent there fell in love, 11 years ago on another trip ended up with a hire car in Sicily for a week, shove it on the ferry and 3 more weeks traveling the south west and back up to Rome. 3rd trip 7 years ago with the better half was no car and pretty much day trips in and around Rome for a couple of weeks,,,,,, pick pockets etc.
> Honestly if I didn't have a Filipino better half I would have retired in the south in Italy,,,,, second choice the south of France.
> 
> How do you go with health and border control clearances travelling from Manila? What's involved?
> BTW any news on when Ikea will officially open?
> Again thanks for your kind offer.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


And I was joking about bringing you something but only because I doubt that there is anything that you really need to be content! But there is no way that we would show up without a gift so you better give me some ideas unless you want Pampanga's Best Tocino from the gas station!

Funny that you mention MacBook's because I just got a new 13" because my 2017 model went to my wife's youngest sister who started college. I am with you on the size of the display but I prefer the portability of the 13" especially snce I am going to be traveling up North soon to visit new friends! 

I am jealous because I have never been to Sicily! I love the North of Italy in the Dolomites. When I took my wife there, she saw her first snow but we also really enjoyed the Amalfi Coast.

See if you lived in Italy or France then we would definitely come and visit you. Paris is my wife's favorite city because we went there and London on our honeymoon!

I honestly have no idea about any papers required to leave Manila but that is a good question. We won't be up to visit you until the quarantine is over!

My wife went to IKEA a few weeks ago and it wasn't open yet and no projected date. I will ask her to check again when she goes to MOA. Online everyone is saying Q4...

Be well!


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

grahamw57 said:


> I used to go skiing in Northern Italy (Cervinia) in my younger days. Italian food is still my favourite.
> 
> I believe Ikea are still interviewing .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> View attachment 100282


That's pretty impressive Graham! Skiing and looking at the Matterhorn....

I did some skiing when I was in the Marines but it was not very pleasurable. The upside is that I found out that I am better at XC than downhill...

No question about my gift for you when we come North then - my homemade baked ziti!

Be well!


----------



## grahamw57

Tyrion Lannister said:


> That's pretty impressive Graham! Skiing and looking at the Matterhorn....


.
Couple of pics from hols there (the young lady was my fiancee... sadly, later killed in a road accident). 
.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

grahamw57 said:


> .
> Couple of pics from hols there (the young lady was my fiancee... sadly, later killed in a road accident).
> .


Nice pics and sorry for loss; I can't imagine how devastated that you must have been...

Be well!


----------



## bigpearl

Tyrion Lannister said:


> And I was joking about bringing you something but only because I doubt that there is anything that you really need to be content! But there is no way that we would show up without a gift so you better give me some ideas unless you want Pampanga's Best Tocino from the gas station!
> 
> Lol. No Tocino, I will settle for a bevy of dancing girls then.
> 
> Funny that you mention MacBook's because I just got a new 13" because my 2017 model went to my wife's youngest sister who started college. I am with you on the size of the display but I prefer the portability of the 13" especially snce I am going to be traveling up North soon to visit new friends!
> 
> My first MacBook Pro was a 17 inch, lasted 7 years, portability wise that unit travelled S/W US, most of western Europe except Spain and some of Asia, when it died I was somewhat annoyed that Apple discontinued that unit and I had to settle for the 15 inch I have now. Happy for the new 16 inch but annoyed the Apple light on the case is no longer there.
> 
> I am jealous because I have never been to Sicily! I love the North of Italy in the Dolomites. When I took my wife there, she saw her first snow but we also really enjoyed the Amalfi Coast.
> 
> Sicily, on that trip was after Greece and the Islands, then Crete and Malta (definitely worth a visit, great place and I will go back next time I'm in Italy) so really the highlight for me was the 140 Euro trip up to the top of Mt Etna. My Niece moved there with here Sicilian better half about a year ago and absolutely loves it but for me? Been there.
> And yes the Amalfi coast is spectacular but the roads and traffic are not for the feint hearted. Only a suggestion Tyrion but have you been to, considered New Zealand for a holiday, especially the south Island if you like snow, glaciers and fiords? A little closer also. Honeymooned there for 3 weeks,,,,,,,, near 40 years ago and had a ball.
> 
> See if you lived in Italy or France then we would definitely come and visit you. Paris is my wife's favorite city because we went there and London on our honeymoon!
> 
> Lol, stuck here in a provincial Filipino life these days but no complaints. More cash for international travel,,,,,, one day.
> 
> I honestly have no idea about any papers required to leave Manila but that is a good question. We won't be up to visit you until the quarantine is over!
> 
> Good luck there, better half mentioned last night that his parents (SFC La Union) went into ECQ, liquor bans etc. Here ATM we are MGCQ or whatever they call it, golly I need to get out a bit more.
> 
> My wife went to IKEA a few weeks ago and it wasn't open yet and no projected date. I will ask her to check again when she goes to MOA. Online everyone is saying Q4...
> 
> Copy that, slowly slowly the wheels turn a little like our new Robinsons Mall that was supposed to open a year ago, C-19 has certainly disrupted progress in cities and provinces.
> 
> Be well!


Back on topic, my bad and soz.
"Think twice before relocating to PI" (PH).

Agree, know what you are getting into and in reality the country matters little but your research and as we say "boots on the ground", "taste the dirt", "rose coloured glasses". Unrealistic expectations in/of any country can/has attributed to the demise of those with "rose coloured glasses". Yep, some pull through and learn the walk but will they be happy?

For me, I know the walk, (mostly) I know (still finding more with the occasional whinge ) the short fallings of this country and how the paths wander. I also know the benefits (for me) outweigh the foibles encountered on that path here. City or province.
I have said this on many occasions here and other sites that as a single man? S/E Asia was never in my radar until 10 years ago. Funny how things can change for the better. Eyes wide open.

You also stay well and be safe in your city (lol) environment mate as we do.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Tyrion Lannister

bigpearl said:


> Back on topic, my bad and soz.
> "Think twice before relocating to PI" (PH).
> 
> Agree, know what you are getting into and in reality the country matters little but your research and as we say "boots on the ground", "taste the dirt", "rose coloured glasses". Unrealistic expectations in/of any country can/has attributed to the demise of those with "rose coloured glasses". Yep, some pull through and learn the walk but will they be happy?
> 
> For me, I know the walk, (mostly) I know (still finding more with the occasional whinge ) the short fallings of this country and how the paths wander. I also know the benefits (for me) outweigh the foibles encountered on that path here. City or province.
> I have said this on many occasions here and other sites that as a single man? S/E Asia was never in my radar until 10 years ago. Funny how things can change for the better. Eyes wide open.
> 
> You also stay well and be safe in your city (lol) environment mate as we do.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


I think that I am party guilty of derailing this thread so apologies to all!

Couldn't agree more with walking around as a great way to get to know an area and have done plenty of early morning treks around our barangay. Have shocked a few of the locals but generally get smiles and greetings probably because I leave my security detail (my rather short wife) at home asleep!

Have been in SEA off and on since the 70's and the good things are still mostly the good things and the bad the same. YMMV

Be well all and pray for us city dwellers in our latest quarantine...


----------



## bigpearl

Lunkan said:


> Cant you get good rice from a local rice mill?
> Thats clever


Basmati rice locally grown in the Philippines? 60 to 70% comes from India but have never found here locally grown,,,,, a little like a decent cut of beef or a Masarati. Perhaps it's time to get your hands in the mix Lunkan.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Maxx62

A while ago I was sitting in front of the television watching the news, when I thought I saw some movement out of the corner of my eye. I turned my head half expecting to see a tiki lizard eating a bug,but it was only my imagination. Has bad as my last few weeks over there were, I guess I still miss it a little bit. Too bad we don't have tiki lizards over here in California.


----------



## grahamw57

I do wish the stripy caterpillars would stop treating my sala floor as a damned highway though.


----------



## Lunkan

bigpearl said:


> Lunkan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cant you get good rice from a local rice mill?
> 
> 
> 
> Basmati rice locally grown in the Philippines? 60 to 70% comes from India but have never found here locally grown,,,,, a little like a decent cut of beef or a Masarati. Perhaps it's time to get your hands in the mix Lunkan.
Click to expand...

 I didnt say "Basmati rice" I said "good rice"...



bigpearl said:


> Perhaps it's time to get your hands in the mix Lunkan.


 And how do you claim that can happen as the situation is now...??? !!!


----------



## Lunkan

grahamw57 said:


> I do wish the stripy caterpillars would stop treating my sala floor as a damned highway though.
> View attachment 100319


 Does your house have highways in for both mosquitos and ground crawling insects? 
As many Filipino houses with no cover between roof and wall
and no doorsteps closing that gap under doors to outside.


----------



## grahamw57

Lunkan said:


> Does your house have highways in for both mosquitos and ground crawling insects?
> As many Filipino houses with no cover between roof and wall
> and no doorsteps closing that gap under doors to outside.


Trying to keep insects out of a Filipino dwelling of any sort is a 'fool's errand' my friend (and the ventilation is healthy... and no, I don't have aircon). 

I just make sure there is no food supply or any other kind of welcome mat for them (or rodent-type vermin).


----------



## Maxx62

grahamw57 said:


> Trying to keep insects out of a Filipino dwelling of any sort is a 'fool's errand' my friend (and the ventilation is healthy... and no, I don't have aircon).
> 
> I just make sure there is no food supply or any other kind of welcome mat for them (or rodent-type vermin).


Funny, now that I'm back in the states, those pesky insects in the Philippines don't seem so bad now.


----------



## Lunkan

grahamw57 said:


> Trying to keep insects out of a Filipino dwelling of any sort is a 'fool's errand' my friend (and the ventilation is healthy... and no, I don't have aircon).


 Yes but it dont need to be highway in, and there are things as mosquito nets  to get ventilation but closed anyway.
Possible to keep mosquitos out by that and never have open at SHADE side of house. Mosquitos except tiger type dont like hard sunshine. 
And there are plants different insects avoid e g lemongrass for mosquitos.

Hard to keep insects as ants out, but have you tried to keep them outside by FEEDING them ouside ?  
(It functions at least at Swedish ant types.)


----------



## KatanaDV20

I sound like a paranoid nanny goat but I actually carry 4 wallets whenever I travel. Cash spread out in all off them. One is a hidden one worn around neck. One of them is a decoy wallet with some notes of cash. I also collect expired credit cards and even expired gift cards and put them in the decoy wallet. In the heat of the moment all they see is a bunch of cards and a wad of cash.

I also never ever use my phone on the streets. Never. Even here in the UK. These days our entire financial and social existence is on these things. The UKs moped snatchers are all the lookout.

Tip: cheap Android phones with big batts are plentiful. Leave the nice primary behind and take the cheapo out and about.


----------



## M.C.A.

KatanaDV20 said:


> I sound like a paranoid nanny goat but I actually carry 4 wallets whenever I travel. Cash spread out in all off them. One is a hidden one worn around neck. One of them is a decoy wallet with some notes of cash. I also collect expired credit cards and even expired gift cards and put them in the decoy wallet. In the heat of the moment all they see is a bunch of cards and a wad of cash.
> 
> I also never ever use my phone on the streets. Never. Even here in the UK. These days our entire financial and social existence is on these things. The UKs moped snatchers are all the lookout.
> 
> Tip: cheap Android phones with big batts are plentiful. Leave the nice primary behind and take the cheapo out and about.


 A decoy wallet is not a bad idea and I've been putting that off.

I'm actually thinking about using a smaller bag strapped sideways ony chest because it gets tiring filling my shorts with phone, steel wallet for ATM cards and then my change bag of smaller bills and coins.

I do use a Senior flip type cell phone for ease of quick and painless communication but now with Covid Government offices and some stores require a smart phone for logging your health status.


----------



## Lunkan

Often I dont carry wallet, just money in diferent locations  to never get without cash even if robbed. Although I have never been robbed. 



M.C.A. said:


> I'm actually thinking about using a smaller bag strapped sideways ony chest because it gets tiring filling my shorts with phone, steel wallet for ATM cards and then my change bag of smaller bills and coins.


 I have no idea how common but some "pocket thieves" have started cuting the strap of such and get all at once, then run and hand it over to someone else in a crowd, so if they get caught its problem to prove they are guilty by they dont carry anything stolen.


----------



## KatanaDV20

Lunkan said:


> Often I dont carry wallet, just money in diferent locations  to never get without cash even if robbed. Although I have never been robbed.
> 
> I have no idea how common but some "pocket thieves" have started cuting the strap of such and get all at once, then run and hand it over to someone else in a crowd, so if they get caught its problem to prove they are guilty by they dont carry anything stolen.


You get wallets with hardened chains that they cannot cut, also the bags with hardened wire mesh to prevent knives going in to make a hole.

I am honestly more worried travelling in Europe than anywhere else on earth. Europe has the pickpocket Grand Masters, they are very very very good at what they do. In places like Paris, Barcelona and Rome you better be ready.

One crazy simple one is when they stand on the metro platform, they wait for everyone to get on the train...JUST AS THE DOOR IS CLOSING...they reach inside, grab a phone and run. The victim cannot do anything, the door closes and train moves. The other well known ones are "doing a survey" (they will ask for payment) and "accidents" like you knock over a coffee on the side of the street - they will make a scene and ask for cash. Its a warzone out there.


----------



## art1946

I am not sure if i would want to use a decoy wallet. Some of these thieves may have a real bad streak in them. What if they get upset because they figured out what you did? Never know what they might do to you later. I would rather make sure my wallet is secured on me. I always kept my wallet in the front pocket with my hand in the same pocket most of the time, especially if I was in a crowd in a store or mall.

art


----------



## Maxx62

art1946 said:


> I am not sure if i would want to use a decoy wallet. Some of these thieves may have a real bad streak in them. What if they get upset because they figured out what you did? Never know what they might do to you later. I would rather make sure my wallet is secured on me. I always kept my wallet in the front pocket with my hand in the same pocket most of the time, especially if I was in a crowd in a store or mall.
> 
> art


My wife always nagged me to carry a decoy wallet, but I never did. Instead of carrying a decoy wallet, I simply avoided carrying large amounts of cash, and I only put my bank card in my wallet when I was about to use it. Other than that, only carried as much cash as I thought I would need that day, and I kept a low profile.


----------



## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> I am not sure if i would want to use a decoy wallet. Some of these thieves may have a real bad streak in them. What if they get upset because they figured out what you did? Never know what they might do to you later. I would rather make sure my wallet is secured on me. I always kept my wallet in the front pocket with my hand in the same pocket most of the time, especially if I was in a crowd in a store or mall.
> 
> art


I had my wallet taken from my R/H pocket, a group of teens surrounded me and the lead guy jabbed his index finger into my chest and backed off quickly before I could punch him, this gang all had their special skills and then they left immediately... They had already taken my wallet.


----------



## Maxx62

M.C.A. said:


> I had my wallet taken from my R/H pocket, a group of teens surrounded me and the lead guy jabbed his index finger into my chest and backed off quickly before I could punch him, this gang all had their special skills and then they left immediately... They had already taken my wallet.


It's pretty bad that that happened to you, but these days it seems more likely that one of the locals will try to pick-pocket you, rather than blatantly trying to strong-arm rob you, as what you describe. 

My wife has an aunt, an older lady, who had her money stolen out of her purse while she was shopping at S&R, she turned her back from her shopping cart for just a few minutes, and then later when she went to the register, she found that someone had taken her pocketbook from her purse while she was shopping. 

Also, about twenty years ago our nephew was playing video games at an arcade inside SM Cebu. He was so engrossed in his video game that he didn't notice when someone lifted his wallet out of his pants pocket.

Although muggings and strong-arm robberies do occur, it is much more likely that someone will simply try to lift your wallet than they are to use physical force to take things from you. But it does happen on occasion.


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## Gary D

A sister in law lost a phone, unfortunately a couple of days after we gave it to her. She was walking in the local market when someone behind tread on the back of her slipper, she stopped dead making her lunge forward. As she lunged forward a hand slipped the phone from her pocket.


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## JonL12345

Wow, it seems like the chances of you being pickpocketed or robbed are near to 100% if you stay in the Philippines for a few years.


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## Gary D

JonL12345 said:


> Wow, it seems like the chances of you being pickpocketed or robbed are near to 100% if you stay in the Philippines for a few years.


Yes I'm sure that given enough time your number will come around.


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## Maxx62

JonL12345 said:


> Wow, it seems like the chances of you being pickpocketed or robbed are near to 100% if you stay in the Philippines for a few years.


My two cents, your odds of being robbed are about 20%, unless you really push your luck by going into an extremely bad area, but if you just happen to be wandering about in a random tourist area, then your odds of being pickpocketed are at about 80%.


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## art1946

I always used safety to be my first thinking. I never wandered down back streets. Never went out at dark. I never wore expensive clothing or wore expensive jewelry while going out. I stayed out of bad areas. I believe it just takes some common sense to be a lot safer there. I never had a problem by doing all the things I listed here for over a year. I always noticed people around me. If I seen someone following me for a long time I would walk into a mall or a store.

art


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## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> Wow, it seems like the chances of you being pickpocketed or robbed are near to 100% if you stay in the Philippines for a few years.


Jon, my pick pocket experience was decades ago when I was stationed in Subic Bay US base and I forgot the gun battle's in the streets while walking with bullets whizzing by my head but I've been here 10 years and nobody has picked my wallet.

The last time someone tried in our area was in 1993 and this was in the market area and I caught him grabbing my wallet in the back pocket. And then he played it off as being interested in me feining gayness.

Another time as a back rider on a trike the same thing happened, the guy in the middle was grabbing my butt and then he played it off as being abnormal and feining gayness.


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## Lunkan

I think much less risk if chose location wicely
- or much higher if chose bad location


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## M.C.A.

Lunkan said:


> I think much less risk if chose location wicely
> - or much higher if chose bad location


You'll be alright here Lunkan if you avoid large outdoor crowded market area's or limit what you carry. It's so crowded and incredibly hot here that most of the time we are going to be in a vehicle, taxi, jeepney, bus or trike and so far I havent' experienced any troubles with that either.


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## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> You'll be alright here Lunkan if you avoid large outdoor crowded market area's or limit what you carry. It's so crowded and incredibly hot here that most of the time we are going to be in a vehicle, taxi, jeepney, bus or trike and so far I havent' experienced any troubles with that either.


 If I get there, I will be rural, no crowds there  or in the small closest town.


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## JonL12345

If I was a kangaroo I would have my own biological pouch to put my belongings. I do have one of sorts, but let's not go there!


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## fmartin_gila

Asawa has a few pantys with a pocket as the front panel. She refers to them as her "smuggler pantys". Tells me that a lot of women wear them.

Fred


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## JonL12345

I think the seamstress idea was such a good one. What about cargo style shorts with pockets? Wondering if you could padlock them!


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## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> I think the seamstress idea was such a good one. What about cargo style shorts with pockets? Wondering if you could padlock them!


Cargo pants work well and if possible traveling light.

You'll be okay as long as you avoid larger market areas and avoid special attention, avoid interaction with anyone on the streets.


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## Maxx62

I've been hanging around the Philippines, mostly in the Cebu area on and off since roughly 1989 - 90 or so, and there have only been two instances in which I felt like I was about to be robbed. 

The first one occurred during one of our trips back in 2003. My wife decided to go to into downtown Mandaue to go have her eyebrows done. The taxi cab dropped us off on the opposite side of the street from the beauty parlor. There was three lanes of heavy traffic going in either direction, so my wife and took one of the pedestrian bridges to get across the street. As we were coming down the stairs on the far side of the bridge, we encountered a group of maybe six or seven young men who were sprawled across the stairs as if they were all sleeping off a hangover. These guys gave us the most evil stares as we walked past them, and as we exited the stairway, the started to follow us down the street. Fortunately the beauty parlor was just a few dozen paces from the bridge, and they didn't try to follow us inside. Well, I really got a bad vibe from those fellows, and my guess is that they were looking for someone to rob so that they could go on another shabu bender, but fortunately it wasn't us. Also, all of this took place at around noon time.

Second incident happened about ten years later while I was getting cash out of an ATM in a somewhat industrial area of Cebu City. There were a lot of building supply places (big places) warehouses, maybe a tire store, a welding shop, and this one Metrobank which happened to be on the corner. It was probably about ten or eleven on a Saturday morning something like that. So I pull into one of the spots in front of the bank (not my regular branch) and I get out to use the ATM which is located right there next to the public sidewalk. As I'm doing my thing at the ATM, this local guy, one of the most buffed people I've ever seen in the Philippines, appears out of nowhere and begins giving me the evil eye. So, I instantly recognize, if I have to tangle with this guy, it might not go so well for me. So, I just do a balance check instead of taking out cash. Then I say out loud so he can hear me "Damned thing isn't working". - He kept staring at me with an evil grin on his face, but he didn't make a move. I then got into my car and drove a little ways to SM Cebu where I got cash from an inside ATM. Well, if I had been stupid enough to take cash out while that guy was standing there, I have no doubt that he would have attacked me. It was written all over his face.

So, there are a few criminals out there who trying to size you up as a victim, but if you keep your head on straight, you can usually prevent them from seeing you as an easy target.


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## Gary D

The only I've felt uncomfortable twice and is also in Cebu. We were staying in a hotel and walked across the road to an electronics store looking for some screw terminal block that I needed for a job back home. When we came out a couple of lads started following us so instead of carrying on our walk we dashed back across the road and into the hotel. It turned out later that the electronics shop had also robbed me, the terminal block cracked every time I tried to tighten a screw.
The second time was walking through Cebu port at about 4am after getting off the Ormoc ferry. Bit of a shady area after dark.


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## freebiefan

Lived in Philippines on and off for over 10 years and have been coming here for 30 plus years... in all that time once had a camera stolen from a backpack as I walking round Glorietta, Makati. ...be careful of your surroundings, be wary and watchful, oh and walk fast. most bad guys will always find a slower target. 
Saw many kids hanging around the bridge area near Heritage Hotel in Manila and EDSA complex ( RIP ).. they lots interdest in every guy that walked fast and with purpose.. too much hard work to try and rob a fast walker. They saved their time and attention on the slow drunk ones especially if with a lady in tow.
FYI. .there are many videos on YouTube showing jeepneys full with passengers in some parts of Manila at night.. workers all using their phones.. jeepney gets stuck in traffic, slows or stops and guys who had been trailing the jeepney just move closer to jeepney, grab a phone and run off. .. phone never to be seen again.


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## KatanaDV20

art1946 said:


> I am not sure if i would want to use a decoy wallet. Some of these thieves may have a real bad streak in them. What if they get upset because they figured out what you did? Never know what they might do to you later. I would rather make sure my wallet is secured on me. I always kept my wallet in the front pocket with my hand in the same pocket most of the time, especially if I was in a crowd in a store or mall.
> 
> art



That is a good point. As always its always a coin toss. My thinking being these losers want SOMETHING and also want to get away. Handing them something - which does have some large denomination notes in it - would "keep them happy" and they'll run. 

However you have convinced me to change something - thanks to your comment I will no longer carry expired decoy cards. Instead I'll just carry a cash card that can be loaded or a second credit card I will apply for with a stupidly low spend and withdrawal limit. 

This is because your comment has made me realize that they could see all those cards - and march me to an ATM. And get pissed when I tell em they are fakes. Best to have sacrificial cash. 

While living in America 26 years ago at a red light a homeless guy punched me THROUGH the glass after smashing it with something. My window was up. He got me good. It was midnight, no one around. He then dragged me out and started wailing on me. I just blocked them all and saved my face. He then stopped, looked panicked and said "_Dont...dont call the cops, ya hear me?_" and he ran off. 

In case you're wondering - my door was locked. I always lock my doors, even if driving for 5 mins. He just unlocked it after the glass was smashed. I'm lucky he didn't have a weapon or being the USA...a gun. The cops came but I never heard anything, guess he just vanished. 

Keep safe, keep doors locked and be aware. Be very aware. This is how I am now, that guy did me a favour, Im so so aware of surroundings and can sense if things are going to kick off much better than before. If I'm at a bar or cafe and a big group of dudes walk , I'm gone. My last visit to the Ph I was with the GF eating at tables set outside watching a concert and a commotion broke out a few tables down. Some guys hollerin at each other. The food was in containers, I told her "_Close it all up, we're goin_" and we got a trike home. Later we heard a proper brawl had broken out, cops showed up and all that jazz. 

Prior to the US event this sort of thing would not faze me. I'd just keep sitting there watching amused as a scrap developed. Now I just bug out as soon as "spider sense" tingles!

I'm not saying be paranoid but be aware. Be very aware. I strongly advise against listening to music on headphones while walking the streets for example. A mugger & snatchers dream. Keep safe all.


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## JonL12345

With all this risk to your safety, all the precautions you have to take, constantly feeling like a target, is there any point in being in the Philippines? Why are you still there?


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## M.C.A.

JonL12345 said:


> With all this risk to your safety, all the precautions you have to take, constantly feeling like a target, is there any point in being in the Philippines? Why are you still there?


It's really not that dangerous and for me I couldn't get my adopted kids out and my wife (I met her in the US) always wanted to be here.

I now have 4 grandchildren.


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## Maxx62

JonL12345 said:


> With all this risk to your safety, all the precautions you have to take, constantly feeling like a target, is there any point in being in the Philippines? Why are you still there?


I never constantly felt like a target, in fact I only felt in danger twice. However, if you're outside in a busy area, then you have to constantly scan your area for threats. However, in my opinion you're more likely to get your wallet lifted out of your pocket than you are to actually get beaten and robbed.


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## art1946

When I lived there I never really felt unsafe. Again, it just takes some common sense on the expats part. Most of the time I really believe the expat was careless in his safety.

I lived on Mindanao Island just north of Davao city. You hear how expats should not move to Mindanao island. I never had a problem there with anyone. I would not move to Marawi city with all the criminals living there and walk down the street at midnight!!!! USE COMMON SENSE! I lived in Tagum City and I walked all over that town and road in trikes most everyday. Not one problem there. I met a lot of expats living there and they had no problem. I then moved back to Davao city and again I did my traveling during the day time.

I live in Orlando, Fl now. I sure wouldn't walk down Orange Blossom Trail at night. Would be asking to get robbed.

Art


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## Maxx62

art1946 said:


> I live in Orlando, Fl now. I sure wouldn't walk down Orange Blossom Trail at night. Would be asking to get robbed.


I agree, I'm staying in the Sacramento, California area right now, and there are areas over here I wouldn't walk through, day or night, because it isn't so much an issue of IF you will be robbed, as it is how soon you will be robbed. - And you know, even when I walked a short distance through a poorer area of Cebu City, usually the people would just stop and stare at you. After hanging around the Philippines for roughly thirty years, there were only two occasions in which I genuinely felt concerned for my immediate safety. So, two potentially unsafe incidents over a thirty year period are not bad odds. But still, you never want to push your luck.


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## art1946

Hey Maxx62

I wanted to go back but with this pandemic I don't know when the Philippines will open the entry for tourist.. I really enjoyed living in tagum city. It is an officially a 1st class rated city. We had everything there but no local buses or taxi. We either had our own vehicle, rode a trike or walked. I did walk a lot. I lived right off the main street which was national Highway. We had 5 malls there. They built the new one just before I left to come back to the states. If I had a chance i would go back to Tagum. Very nice city.

Art


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## amcan13

Well sounds like finding the wrong partner is quite a problem. But I found that out in USA and thus got divorced losing most of my possessions. My current wife was older, 40 when we married (to my 53), and she had values much closer to mine. She worked hard her whole life as OFW in the middle east and was not just surfing for a husband.
We lived for 8 years in USA and when I wanted to retire she was happy to leave and come back home. 
We live 2 km from her parents, which is enough to prevent drop ins. We are adopting a baby, which was something we both wanted. We built a modest house on property my wife purchased and we are making fixes to it now we live in it full time. 
There is no getting around that some of the money goes to her family but I suggest working that out before you marry like a prenuptial in the USA.
I personally don't understand the guys marrying a much younger Filipino. Most of our friends in USA had a huge age difference and it was clear to see the guys sort of used the women to work so they could work less of retire. I also see those couples having less in common, since the guys are now cranky old farts.
I am lucky, I don't mind drinking and I love karaoke. I am ok with a house full of kids and I have enough room in my house to take a nap in my room while the women deal with kids and cooking. 
Stay single if you just want to date and it is so easy to rent, why worry about buying.


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## M.C.A.

amcan13 said:


> Well sounds like finding the wrong partner is quite a problem. But I found that out in USA and thus got divorced losing most of my possessions. My current wife was older, 40 when we married (to my 53), and she had values much closer to mine. She worked hard her whole life as OFW in the middle east and was not just surfing for a husband.
> We lived for 8 years in USA and when I wanted to retire she was happy to leave and come back home.
> We live 2 km from her parents, which is enough to prevent drop ins. We are adopting a baby, which was something we both wanted. We built a modest house on property my wife purchased and we are making fixes to it now we live in it full time.
> There is no getting around that some of the money goes to her family but I suggest working that out before you marry like a prenuptial in the USA.
> I personally don't understand the guys marrying a much younger Filipino. Most of our friends in USA had a huge age difference and it was clear to see the guys sort of used the women to work so they could work less of retire. I also see those couples having less in common, since the guys are now cranky old farts.
> I am lucky, I don't mind drinking and I love karaoke. I am ok with a house full of kids and I have enough room in my house to take a nap in my room while the women deal with kids and cooking.
> Stay single if you just want to date and it is so easy to rent, why worry about buying.


Welcome to the forum amcan13, Really cool you've adopted kids, I did the same thing by adopting 3 kids one each from 3 of her brothers many years ago and it's made our lives complete and now even better Grandkids. 

It has taken my wife a couple of decades of lessons learned over and over again and stop giving money to her brothers and sisters, this includes feeding them, so we'll have to agree to disagree on giving money to the family.

In-laws can find their own work but hey.. sitting around and getting drunk and smoking cigarettes while they get fed on our dime only fosters more of their bad and privileged behavior.


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> Well sounds like finding the wrong partner is quite a problem. But I found that out in USA and thus got divorced losing most of my possessions. My current wife was older, 40 when we married (to my 53), and she had values much closer to mine. She worked hard her whole life as OFW in the middle east and was not just surfing for a husband.
> We lived for 8 years in USA and when I wanted to retire she was happy to leave and come back home.
> We live 2 km from her parents, which is enough to prevent drop ins. We are adopting a baby, which was something we both wanted. We built a modest house on property my wife purchased and we are making fixes to it now we live in it full time.
> There is no getting around that some of the money goes to her family but I suggest working that out before you marry like a prenuptial in the USA.
> I personally don't understand the guys marrying a much younger Filipino. Most of our friends in USA had a huge age difference and it was clear to see the guys sort of used the women to work so they could work less of retire. I also see those couples having less in common, since the guys are now cranky old farts.
> I am lucky, I don't mind drinking and I love karaoke. I am ok with a house full of kids and I have enough room in my house to take a nap in my room while the women deal with kids and cooking.
> Stay single if you just want to date and it is so easy to rent, why worry about buying.


Bottom line is, if you move to the Philippines, you'll always be a second class citizen, and if you find yourself embroiled in some sort of legal conflict with one of the locals, you won't enjoy the same level of rights and privileges which they do. Also, since you're a foreigner, and all foreigners are thought of as being rich, you're going to find yourself paying for all sorts of things you never dreamed of. To make a long story short, why bother moving there? As I said, it is a great place to visit, but not such a great place to visit. Also, you could have the nicest wife in the world, but she won't be able to control all of your neighbors, in-laws, and everyone else looking for a handout


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## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> you could have the nicest wife in the world, but she won't be able to control all of your neighbors, in-laws, and everyone else looking for a handout


 I dont know if it will function, but plan is:
1. Live far from relatives. Or better marry someone who dont know of any relatives, grown up in an orphanage  But if so, I suppouse we will give some support to that orphanage anyway if they treated her good.
2. Wife get a monthly amount to decide about herself INCLUDING money to her own use (except food and medical for HERSELF). Then she can chose herself about money to her family. But I will recomend her to not pay anyone to sit and do nothing - except OLD relatives. 
OR discus with wife if INSTEAD giving relatives support - including knowledge - to startup own business IF they have business skill, so they can improve their living standard themselves. But I suppouse hard to not add money if close relatives get serious ill. I dont mind supporting people IF they do their best, I have done much such during the years although mainly to kids, but I realy dislike supporting anyone who dont do their best...
(A foreigner with bad relations to his own relatives and good relations to wife¨s relatives *living at mother-in-law's farmland*. First he disliked supporting wife's relatives, but when he got so good relation to them, his thinking changed to thinking what he would do if it was his own LIKED relatives and then he didnt have problem to share with them. He has low retirement pay anyway so if counting benifits he get from mother-in-law's farmland its perhaps she supporting him 
OR if I end up with a wife from where I have started a business, the relatives - except old - get NOTHING if they dont work for it... 
3. Never give people living there money without working for it. I spend much of my money at adding "real" jobs. If someone else ask for money, I suppouse I can think of something for them to get done for me. (Except giving some food to xmas and perhaps more regular to old.) And I think of - or more correct my business - paying for a fiesta in that baranggay village. Not many people live there and its one of the few baranggays which dont have a fiesta by the baranggay dont afford to have any. Not costing any much, mainly being games similar to the day time part of Swedish Midsummer celebrations.
4. Say "We dont have money, we have spend them at adding jobs" which will be partly true. I dress similar to poor farmers mostly anyway and will have a simple car, but it will be some trouble if they see the house by I want a big but rather simple house. Not leting anyone in at second floor  where I will have some things poor people dont have, and some of the size of the house can be blamed at "having part of business in it". It will be far from neighbours, out of sight some houndred meters behind the business, so few will have reason to get there and if they get there the outside will be ugly  not painted looking as the simple hollowblock houses except biger. 
And/or let the wife handle beggars and tell her to blame ME "My husband dont let me, he is kuripot" (=stingy)


----------



## M.C.A.

Lunkan said:


> I dont know if it will function, but plan is:
> 1. Live far from relatives. Or better marry someone who dont know of any relatives, grown up in an orphanage  But if so, I suppouse we will give some support to that orphanage anyway if they treated her good.
> 2. Wife get a monthly amount to decide about herself INCLUDING money to her own use (except food and medical for HERSELF). Then she can chose herself about money to her family. But I will recomend her to not pay anyone to sit and do nothing - except OLD relatives.
> OR discus with wife if INSTEAD giving relatives support - including knowledge - to startup own business IF they have business skill, so they can improve their living standard themselves. But I suppouse hard to not add money if close relatives get serious ill. I dont mind supporting people IF they do their best, I have done much such during the years although mainly to kids, but I realy dislike supporting anyone who dont do their best...
> (A foreigner with bad relations to his own relatives and good relations to wife¨s relatives *living at mother-in-law's farmland*. First he disliked supporting wife's relatives, but when he got so good relation to them, his thinking changed to thinking what he would do if it was his own LIKED relatives and then he didnt have problem to share with them. He has low retirement pay anyway so if counting benifits he get from mother-in-law's farmland its perhaps she supporting him
> OR if I end up with a wife from where I have started a business, the relatives - except old - get NOTHING if they dont work for it...
> 3. Never give people living there money without working for it. I spend much of my money at adding "real" jobs. If someone else ask for money, I suppouse I can think of something for them to get done for me. (Except giving some food to xmas and perhaps more regular to old.) And I think of - or more correct my business - paying for a fiesta in that baranggay village. Not many people live there and its one of the few baranggays which dont have a fiesta by the baranggay dont afford to have any. Not costing any much, mainly being games similar to the day time part of Swedish Midsummer celebrations.
> 4. Say "We dont have money, we have spend them at adding jobs" which will be partly true. I dress similar to poor farmers mostly anyway and will have a simple car, but it will be some trouble if they see the house by I want a big but rather simple house. Not leting anyone in at second floor  where I will have some things poor people dont have, and some of the size of the house can be blamed at "having part of business in it". It will be far from neighbours, out of sight some houndred meters behind the business, so few will have reason to get there and if they get there the outside will be ugly  not painted looking as the simple hollowblock houses except biger.
> And/or let the wife handle beggars and tell her to blame ME "My husband dont let me, he is kuripot" (=stingy)


Lunkin, you won't be able to escape the real problem maker and enabler ...your woman.


----------



## M.C.A.

Maxx62 said:


> Bottom line is, if you move to the Philippines, you'll always be a second class citizen, and if you find yourself embroiled in some sort of legal conflict with one of the locals, you won't enjoy the same level of rights and privileges which they do. Also, since you're a foreigner, and all foreigners are thought of as being rich, you're going to find yourself paying for all sorts of things you never dreamed of. To make a long story short, why bother moving there? As I said, it is a great place to visit, but not such a great place to visit. Also, you could have the nicest wife in the world, but she won't be able to control all of your neighbors, in-laws, and everyone else looking for a handout


This is just one place where you have to count to 10 before you react or answer and accept that you don't belong here.. true statement Max and I do everything I can to avoid these trouble makers.


----------



## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> I dont know if it will function, but plan is:
> 1. Live far from relatives. Or better marry someone who dont know of any relatives, grown up in an orphanage  But if so, I suppouse we will give some support to that orphanage anyway if they treated her good.
> 2. Wife get a monthly amount to decide about herself INCLUDING money to her own use (except food and medical for HERSELF). Then she can chose herself about money to her family. But I will recomend her to not pay anyone to sit and do nothing - except OLD relatives.
> OR discus with wife if INSTEAD giving relatives support - including knowledge - to startup own business IF they have business skill, so they can improve their living standard themselves. But I suppouse hard to not add money if close relatives get serious ill. I dont mind supporting people IF they do their best, I have done much such during the years although mainly to kids, but I realy dislike supporting anyone who dont do their best...
> (A foreigner with bad relations to his own relatives and good relations to wife¨s relatives *living at mother-in-law's farmland*. First he disliked supporting wife's relatives, but when he got so good relation to them, his thinking changed to thinking what he would do if it was his own LIKED relatives and then he didnt have problem to share with them. He has low retirement pay anyway so if counting benifits he get from mother-in-law's farmland its perhaps she supporting him
> OR if I end up with a wife from where I have started a business, the relatives - except old - get NOTHING if they dont work for it...
> 3. Never give people living there money without working for it. I spend much of my money at adding "real" jobs. If someone else ask for money, I suppouse I can think of something for them to get done for me. (Except giving some food to xmas and perhaps more regular to old.) And I think of - or more correct my business - paying for a fiesta in that baranggay village. Not many people live there and its one of the few baranggays which dont have a fiesta by the baranggay dont afford to have any. Not costing any much, mainly being games similar to the day time part of Swedish Midsummer celebrations.
> 4. Say "We dont have money, we have spend them at adding jobs" which will be partly true. I dress similar to poor farmers mostly anyway and will have a simple car, but it will be some trouble if they see the house by I want a big but rather simple house. Not leting anyone in at second floor  where I will have some things poor people dont have, and some of the size of the house can be blamed at "having part of business in it". It will be far from neighbours, out of sight some houndred meters behind the business, so few will have reason to get there and if they get there the outside will be ugly  not painted looking as the simple hollowblock houses except biger.
> And/or let the wife handle beggars and tell her to blame ME "My husband dont let me, he is kuripot" (=stingy)


All very reasonable and well planned out. But you see, sometimes the locals are beyond reason, and not all of the problems you may encounter are going to be caused by your in-laws. A lot of times you may have trouble with a neighbor who suddenly decides that he owns a part of your access road, and that if you don't pay him 30,000 Php, then you cannot drive on it any more. Situations like that get to become a real nuisance after a while. If you can avoid such problems, great, but people should consider these things before they move there on a long term basis.


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## Maxx62

M.C.A. said:


> This is just one place where you have to count to 10 before you react or answer and accept that you don't belong here.. true statement Max and I do everything I can to avoid these trouble makers.


I agree, but suppose you've finished counting to ten, and after you're done counting, the person who thinks that they own your lot is still standing there trying to shake you down? Logic and reason will get you along way in the PI, but sometimes even that breaks down, and then it boils down to who has the most connections with the authorities.


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## M.C.A.

Maxx62 said:


> I agree, but suppose you've finished counting to ten, and after you're done counting, the person who thinks that they own your lot is still standing there trying to shake you down? Logic and reason will get you along way in the PI, but sometimes even that breaks down, and then it boils down to who has the most connections with the authorities.


Yep, we are getting harassed by our jealous neighbor and his evil woman, he has a mini duck frying business (itig kanulob) his buddies are the drunkards in the barangay and the police.

He files complaints all the time. Yesterday his dogs were harassing our tied up dogs and so I got tired if it and surprised his loved pets with soapy water, right away he filed a complaint and the barangay came out and was observing us, he tied up his dogs before he took off.


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## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> Lunkin, you won't be able to escape the real problem maker and enabler ...your woman.


 Well. TECHNICALY I can tell conditions and get "agreement" about that BEFORE marriage and not give her access to more than the agreed amount,
but I suppouse if I stick to it EMOTIONALY I can get a hell  
I suppouse I will pay more IF a close relative get serious ill, but I will sure NOT pay more to lazy people.
I suppouse I will scare away the lazy ones by offering them to work to get the money 🤣

A Filipna I know said herself she dont want to support the huligan brothers, want to live far away from them, and disliked most in the family are very lazy, and she understood I dont want to support lazy people. They are so lazy so THREE grown up men handling HALF hectare dont haul water for watering to get a third harvest during the dry period, they half starve instead!!! The mother is exhausted after giving birth to 12, so I cant expect her to do anything, but its a problem the good ones and the bad ones live together, so if supporting the good, then the lazy ones will take advantage of it too. I suppouse unsolvable as long as the mother is alive, but if she die the two youngest can be moved to not lazy sisters living elsewhere and the only not lazy more living there is the eldest of the daughters of them not moved away and she has said she want to move away, so blunt said it can only be solved if the mother die.
A foreigner told his wife dont like to pay to her relatives but feel the pressure to do so. Such I would solve by telling my wife to blame refusal on me.
An other foreigner told a clever solution concerning relatives. An uncle had borrowed without paying back and when anyone else asked for a loan that foreigner said "Yes I will lend you as soon as uncle X pay me back..." 🤣 which more or less have made the asking for loan has stoped.

OR marry into a rich family, so it dont need support  A sister of an ex gf had a wedding costing a half million pesos, so if I would marry into such family I would refer to that if asked for money (more than equal part to parents). 
While an other Filipina said some years ago 20 000 pesos is enough for her wedding...

Several foreigners have told Filipinos havent even thanked them when giving to them!!! (If they thank anyone, they thank God.)
While my business partner, who is TRIBE, has even thanked me several times for the OPPORTUNITY to earn and he work very very hard to get things done. E g two days ago he WALKED 2 x 10 km to get to the highway to get to public transport just to fetch some equipment arrived by LBC, which dont deliver to the village he live in during dry period neither and now its impossible to drive at that road even with his road-offroad type motorbike by the "road" is deep mudd by much rain. And he said about them he include in the team when he organice jobs to be done, only two are lazy, the others can be left after got instructions and they go on working. His sisters are married allready, but perhaps there are someone else from that tribe suiting to marry  although its a problem they marry very young and I dont want a to young wife, I want one a bit over 30. They look better in average than average malay Filipinas too  The worst looking I have seen from these tribes look as average malay Filipinas. (I mean among them under middle age. Not fair to compare women in middle age when one live comfortable in comparing and the other is very poor.) This tribe group people are decendants of the Tabon cave man, which I suppouse was handsome


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## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> (to me) All very reasonable and well planned out. But you see, sometimes the locals are beyond reason, and not all of the problems you may encounter are going to be caused by your in-laws. A lot of times you may have trouble with a neighbor who suddenly decides that he owns a part of your access road, and that if you don't pay him 30,000 Php, then you cannot drive on it any more. Situations like that get to become a real nuisance after a while. If you can avoid such problems, great, but people should consider these things before they move there on a long term basis.


 Thats why I aim at living at a BIG and RURAL lot, connected to a public road, so I dont need any right of way and can put the living house far from neighbours. And in that region there are big lots where no one live at the neighbour lots neither. . 
((Perhaps I will get a such lot as the third lot we are trying to buy with businesses, if we can reach paying agreement. This third lot is almost 10 hectares at the highway and rather squared. There is a neighbour house close at the west side at highway and one at the other side of the highway but a kilometer or so to closest neighbour houses in the other directions. so there are enough space to put the house at wanted distance from neighbours. But it is in the next baranggay, not in the baranggay where my business partner have good influence.)) 



Maxx62 said:


> /To MCA) I agree, but suppose you've finished counting to ten, and after you're done counting, the person who thinks that they own your lot is still standing there trying to shake you down? *Logic and reason will get you along way in the PI,* but sometimes even that breaks down, and then it boils down to who has the most connections with the authorities.


 Yes there is a big shortage of logic thinking in the Philippines. (I blame the church, which screw up logic thinking.)
But shortage of logic can be both good and bad,
*bad* by it make many things much harder to get done fast and correct,
but *good* by it make business competition much weaker  
((And in our business type it make too so we can buy running businesses very cheap by they are wrong handled. Owners dont understand why although I find it obvious, and by that they get bad results, which make the owners want to sell and most ASK very low prices so we dont even try to haggle about price, only about when to pay to try to afford to buy more businesses now direct for same money  Then we will correct the wrong handlings and get good functioning businesses after some work - and waiting for sometimes ridicilous needed permits. (We have three permits allready but thats not enough, we will need a bunch more before we are allowed to start working!!!) My business partner know some of how to solve the wrong handlings and I know the parts he dont know.. But perhaps we get things done much slower by officials by we are "bad" concerning paying bribes?  We dont pay any. But no one have asked, perhaps by they dont expect we have any money to pay bribes with by my business partner is tribe. But more likely it depend of incompetence not knowing how to do, so they send almost everything to the province capital office although they are suppoused to be handled at the local office...)


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## art1946

hey Maxx62,

You hit the nail right on the head. I was married to a Filipino and the only way we could get along was to give my money to her family. I don't know if most Filipinos are like that or not. I really agree to make sure if a person is going to marry a filipino girl to make sure she doesn't have any living relatives or family or she is going to give all your money to her family if she is like that. It was a struggle with my wife. She worked here at a big lumber chain and never helped out a bit. she sent her money to the Philippines. She would even over draw her checking account to send money to her family. Then she would have to pay a $25 fee for overdraft. She would get on the video cam and her dad wouldn't even talk to her because she didn't send enough money to them. I would never marry another Filipino girl.

art


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> hey Maxx62,
> 
> You hit the nail right on the head. I was married to a Filipino and the only way we could get along was to give my money to her family. I don't know if most Filipinos are like that or not. I really agree to make sure if a person is going to marry a filipino girl to make sure she doesn't have any living relatives or family or she is going to give all your money to her family if she is like that. It was a struggle with my wife. She worked here at a big lumber chain and never helped out a bit. she sent her money to the Philippines. She would even over draw her checking account to send money to her family. Then she would have to pay a $25 fee for overdraft. She would get on the video cam and her dad wouldn't even talk to her because she didn't send enough money to them. I would never marry another Filipino girl.
> 
> art


The big cash give away isn't just to the family members but their friends and or an aquaintace, they love to impress = you, so your hard earned money squandered to others like social welfare, that's a bonafide fact.

Art, you can't escape this money drain, married or not, there's no such thing as a free meal.


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## art1946

hey mark

you up very early. hahahah

I agree with you. But, when married it was hard because if I said something about her about giving money all the time she would go a week and never speak to me. It was always the silent treatment. She would pass me in the hallway and wouldn't speak to me. I would ask her something and she gave me the silent treatment again. So, I finally divorced her.

art


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## Lunkan

art1946 said:


> silent treatment.


 I like when its silent 🤣


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## art1946

hey Lunkan

you have a good point there. hahahaha

art


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## amcan13

I do agree that the helping is part of my asawa's nature. well before meeting me she worked her OFW job and gave most of the money to her family. she also gives money to people on the street, she did that in the USA too. 
I am lucky because I am transparent in our finances and she knows what is spare. in reality she owns 50 percent so what she does with her half after bills is her decision.
I also agreed up front to the monthly family allowance. But i have seen more couples fail at finding the balance. I have seen that in the USA the Filipina will go out and work just to send money home if the husband will not release the money. I am old fashion and if both people work then the home life suffers. The deal is the kids are the pension plan for the parents. not sure I agree but my parents had pensions. if my mom had issues I would move her in, I cannot expect less from my wife. But the bothers and sisters that are bums are not going to get supported. I guess I am lucky and my wife agrees with me. She says no to them. I do notice the kano is easy to use as the reason to say no, especially since people never ask me for anything because of the English.


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## Maxx62

art1946 said:


> hey Maxx62,
> 
> You hit the nail right on the head. I was married to a Filipino and the only way we could get along was to give my money to her family. I don't know if most Filipinos are like that or not. I really agree to make sure if a person is going to marry a filipino girl to make sure she doesn't have any living relatives or family or she is going to give all your money to her family if she is like that. It was a struggle with my wife. She worked here at a big lumber chain and never helped out a bit. she sent her money to the Philippines. She would even over draw her checking account to send money to her family. Then she would have to pay a $25 fee for overdraft. She would get on the video cam and her dad wouldn't even talk to her because she didn't send enough money to them. I would never marry another Filipino girl.
> 
> art


Well, when I say that people should think twice before moving to the Philippines, I don't mean that you should never ever move to the Philippines, I'm simply saying that you need to take a lot of things into consideration, and you'll need to consider a lot of things, not just your in-laws. Having a wife who likes to give money to her family pretty much comes part and parcel with marrying anyone outside from outside the West. However, what really gets me, is that you can spend several years sitting in your house and lot in the Philippines, and then suddenly out of the blue, someone will show up claiming that they own the land your house is built upon. Doesn't matter if you have a deed with your wife's name on it, because you are a foreigner, all foreigner's are rich, and if the person you're arguing with went to school with someone who now has authority, then you are screwed. These are the sort of things people need to think about before moving to the Philippines.


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## Tiz

There are plenty of well educated, single women here with decent jobs.
My lady helps to support her parents, and loans small amounts to brothers and sisters, and a couple of trusted cousins.
These loans are always repaid though.
One cousin that is hopeless with money, she holds his atm card, every time his salary is paid in, she withdraws it, takes out her repayment and then sends the remainder to his gcash account.


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## Lunkan

amcan13 said:


> I do agree that the helping is part of my asawa's nature. well before meeting me she worked her OFW job and gave most of the money to her family. she also gives money to people on the street, she did that in the USA too.


 Such is a good personality thing as long as not giving to lazy people so they can become even more lazy...



amcan13 said:


> I am lucky because I am transparent in our finances and she knows what is spare. in reality she owns 50 percent so what she does with her half after bills is her decision.


 Yes about the work EARNINGS,
but I will keep control of my SAVINGS since before marriage, but release step by step when I see the wife learn, understand things and act responcible. Most Filipinos dont even use the word "budget" correct, which isnt odd by the most poor are occupied with surviving short term, so they havent got exersise in thinking long term. (Although many of them with enough money to think ahead, dont do it anyway...  in our home countries too.)


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## amcan13

The concept of savings and long term planning is typically a concept people with an income in excess of the basic needs understand. I know my first wife, US citizen, spent every dime she got a hold of because she never knew when she would find another payday. I had to remove her from bank accounts and in the end the marriage was a failure.
My Filipina wife work hard her whole life but understands the basic concept of having money later for emergencies and big ticket items. If we want something we have to give up something else. The decisions are easier for her to make especially for family and friends asking for loans.
Loans do not exist in my opinion. I have only had two people actually repay the loan. So I approach it as a gift we are making. each person gets one shot at a loan and after that she says no. The counter is a job or like 100 or 500 peso. If they really wanted the money they work, if lazy they take 100 and leave happy 
I am lucky with my wife, she has goals and we worked to achieve them. I give her a monthly budget and she spends it as see thinks best. As long as I eat and the bills are paid I kind of ignore the details. I left myself a small budget each month that I use for myself. Mostly I end up fixing the car or house but over time it is possible to save up enough to take a vacation with the new baby and all the baggage the kid requires. 
Sorry rambled a bit there😀😁😛


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> The concept of savings and long term planning is typically a concept people with an income in excess of the basic needs understand. I know my first wife, US citizen, spent every dime she got a hold of because she never knew when she would find another payday. I had to remove her from bank accounts and in the end the marriage was a failure.
> My Filipina wife work hard her whole life but understands the basic concept of having money later for emergencies and big ticket items. If we want something we have to give up something else. The decisions are easier for her to make especially for family and friends asking for loans.
> Loans do not exist in my opinion. I have only had two people actually repay the loan. So I approach it as a gift we are making. each person gets one shot at a loan and after that she says no. The counter is a job or like 100 or 500 peso. If they really wanted the money they work, if lazy they take 100 and leave happy
> I am lucky with my wife, she has goals and we worked to achieve them. I give her a monthly budget and she spends it as see thinks best. As long as I eat and the bills are paid I kind of ignore the details. I left myself a small budget each month that I use for myself. Mostly I end up fixing the car or house but over time it is possible to save up enough to take a vacation with the new baby and all the baggage the kid requires.
> Sorry rambled a bit there😀😁😛


True, but more likely than not, if you're marrying someone from a non-Western country, then chances are that you're just going to have to accept the fact that she will be helping her family from time to time. You simply cannot stop it. The thing is to tell your wife that if she must give money to someone in her family, that she must tell you about it first. 

My wife used to occasionally give money to people in her family, it didn't bother me too much, as most of the time it appeared that the money was being used for legitimate expenses such as school supplies, medical needs, or some other unforeseen emergency. I'm glad to help under circumstances like that, but I'm not to keen on paying for someone's karoke party, or night on the town. 

If you're going to marry someone from a developing part of the world, then you have to realize that you cannot prevent her family from asking her for money, and the thing to do is make her be honest and up front about how much money she is giving out. If you just make a blanket rule of NO MONEY, then the money will still flow, but you won't know about it.


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## amcan13

Totally agree on the sharing of information. I know there are times I am out of the loop. 
In order to limit my frustration I have turned over the budget control for normal household stuff. If she wants to have a party or donate to a party she knows she can't pay our bills and rhere is no more money until next month. She also gets an amount of her cash, which I get the same amount, that she can blow on anything with no accountability. In the usa it was mostly for slot play I think but I know she gave money to friends or bought stuff she didn't want to discuss. As long as we both follow the rules I get to do the same with my family. As I said for us it works. I could not assume it works for others, a budget is a hard thing to deal with as it implies decisions have to be made.


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## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> The thing is to tell your wife that if she must give money to someone in her family, that she must tell you about it first.


 Do you allways tell your wife before you pay something? 



Maxx62 said:


> If you're going to marry someone from a developing part of the world, then you have to realize that you cannot prevent her family from asking her for money.


 Actualy in the Philippines its a LAW saying have to support closest family to live ok,
BUT many seem to miss the part - IF the needers have done their best to solve their problems (except when old) =DONT need to support lazy ones...


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## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> Do you allways tell your wife before you pay something?


Generally speaking if the amount of money is large, and it isn't part of our normal budget, then yes, I tell my wife what I'm spending money upon. - Once people start justifying the habit of hiding things from their spouse, then it isn't too much longer until the trust is gone. - If my wife were to come to me an say that one her nieces just had a new born baby, and the baby needs some sort of special treatment, I'd say fine, if we got the money, go ahead and send it.


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## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> Once people start justifying the habit of hiding things from their spouse,


 Well. I dont see it as hiding if she spend some of HER "pocket money" (=money she has to spend at anything)* at ger family without telling you,
except if she dont tell if you ask.

*Or dont she get any money to do what she want with?

*Undepending* of if my wife earn any money by herself or not, she will have some to decide over herself.

But if its biger amount than her "pocket money" thgen I agree with you.


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## bigpearl

I agree Maxx62, it's not just the family and cr#p that follows them aside but the "general" business and hierarchical practices here,,,,,,, perhaps I should say "private" business dealings, rare to have something transpire without dramas, it does happen but not very often. Not even my Telco or others are up with the times. No voice mail, spam mail from them 2 to 4 times a day, golly we had voice mail over 20 years ago in Australia and it was free. Here? What's that? Web sites that don't work or have little or no information and expect you to contact them via one of 4 different mobile numbers that never pick up, no answering system and never return a missed call because they don't recognise the number. Great business practices.

Enough as we could all go on about the woes of this country, all countries for that matter have problems but perhaps we should also remember the great things and why we are really here, partner, cost, climate, scenery. We all knowingly accepted and moved to a third world/developing nation and certainly not blindly for most.
I have more to say but for another post on financial responsibilities/acceptabilities as well as legal recourse and rights as this is an interesting thread with lot's to think about, for all.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl

Lunkan, I hear you very well and appreciate exactly what you are saying, lived all my life with trust for my ex wife and children for 25 years and now my 10 year partner both in love, trust and all that honesty and transparency at a life and monetary level and never questioned until recently. BUT, there is more to this than money. How long is a piece of string? How long will you whip your donkey? How often will you bend over? 
Don't know of those here that have read some of my recent contributions with regards to the passing of my better half's mother, almost his father but stupidity unfortunately won the day and now my better half is flat broke because I refused to pay the hospital bill if they became sick with Covid. That was over 6 months ago. The fall out? We are in the midst of a break up because perhaps like you Lunkan I have morels and ethics and refuse to budge especially based on some fools stupidity. For 10 years we gave to the family fairly well but,,,,, the better half won't work here let alone find a job,,,,, Yes Lunkan a lazy one that aside from our daily chores, washing, cooking, dishes, cleaning house that we both share he spends 10 hours a month in the garden and feels hard done by. I offered him a job because I know he is broke, 40 hours a week and you have to work,,,,,,,,, he doesn't want,,,,,,, there you go, lives here, wants for nothing and won't move back to his family.

Seperate bedrooms for the last 3 months because I didn't bend over, my choice as I had a gut full of the B/S and his lazy siblings. He now suffers as do I but he refuses to own the situation, It's not all about you mate. 

The legal side of property ownership and leases for another thread but I am well and legally protected even in the event of my sudden demise and the better half know the story, nothing for him for another 45 years.

LOL, another waffle but getting it out there.

Cheers, Steve.


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## amcan13

Going back to the title of the thread, I can see we can all agree. The decision to relocate to the Philippines will alter your life and might not be something you can accept. It all comes down to life with a Filipina, I can Google today about marrying a Filipina and it will give you a nice list of pros and cons. the cons are real. Don't think you will be the one to change generations of a cultural way of life because you are so special. I had a father in law that acted irresponsibility and ended up on dialysis. So we pay half, the other sister pays half. all I can say is he is lucky it was not more serious that was beyond what we could afford.
Luckily for me the family being important and the church being very clear about the roles of married people, works in my favor too. I am now the parent in a new family and the roles shift over time. There will always be someone trying to get that free lunch, but I do know it won't be my kid.


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## Lunkan

bigpearl said:


> How long is a piece of string? How long will you whip your donkey? How often will you bend over?


 Well. I am an odd mix  of 
relaxed flexible
and serious not accepting any bull**** at all.

So I will tell the "length of string" BEFORE marriage/move together. 
If the wife get out of her free to spend money I see it as her problem  but if she isnt used to think ahead, I expect she need a learning period, where I will give her some extra to cover if there is any need as to LONG transports to walk - Swedish messure, not common Filipino messure which is almost nothing 🤣 - NOTHING else, she will need to take the consequences until next money period, because if I would cover it she would never learn... 
(Back when we were teenagers I did let my sister borrow from me in STARTUP when she had worked during junior highschool, but not got her salary yet, but after some months I told her its the last time I will let her borrow to spend before she got her salary. The next month she wanted to borrow again anyway, and got angry when I refused 🤣 She ended up becoming very economical and inspite of she got serious ill she managed to keep order of her husband  and managed to get a house, first a small one, then a big one with much land  )

If her CLOSEST relatives get big problem e g by get out of work and if they do their best, I will try to assist so they can earn by themselveves.
Concerning her parents age and if they have had body damaging jobs are factors, but by I want a wife age around 30 her parents will probably be younger than me, which I can use as argument "but I am older and I am still working..."  IF I dont find them trying their best or ask to much. 

But similar to your case, serious illness in her family is hard to decide about and its risk it can become a problem. Such cant be decided before marriage (except telling sibblings are excepted to ship in relative to their EARNING. If they earn much and spend much thats THEIR problem in MY oppinion but perhaps not theirs  I mean if I will marry into a family as the one with the crazy sister/brother-in-law who spend half million at their wedding. If marrying into a poor family I expect to need to assist them to ONE chance to earn more, and try to cover for serious illnesses BUT I will tell in advance I will NOT pay if they go on drinking much or smoke at all, if they do so. Many Filipinos wouldnt follow that, which would give me reason to not pay  although some unclear how the law would interpreete such refusal concerning "doing their best".


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## Lunkan

amcan13 said:


> the church being very clear about the roles of married people


 In the Philippines there is a LAW concerning if needing to support her family, clear about NOT needing to support if they dont do their best, but unclear of level when they have right to get.


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## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> Well. I dont see it as hiding if she spend some of HER "pocket money" (=money she has to spend at anything)* at ger family without telling you,
> except if she dont tell if you ask.
> 
> *Or dont she get any money to do what she want with?
> 
> *Undepending* of if my wife earn any money by herself or not, she will have some to decide over herself.
> 
> But if its biger amount than her "pocket money" thgen I agree with you.


Each couple has their own rules for how to manage money. At any rate, having my wife occasionally give money to her family to help them is not one of my bigger pet peeves about life in the Philippines, and we've never argued about it. The big problem are locals who see you as an easy mark, simply because you're a foreigner.


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> Going back to the title of the thread, I can see we can all agree. The decision to relocate to the Philippines will alter your life and might not be something you can accept. It all comes down to life with a Filipina,


I partially agree with your statement, but in reality, the people living in the area around your new home in the Philippines might end up being an even bigger upset than the Filipina you married. Sure, if you marry the wrong girl she can cause you problems, but if find yourself living alongside a bunch of desperate con artists who are the end of their rope, then that could end up being an even bigger problem than silly girl who likes to give a few pesos away.


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## amcan13

I guess I have to wait for that to happen. I doubt my wife and her family would allow anyone in town to try to steal their money. there is no doubt that being a foreigner puts a target on my back. It just makes sense to use the status to get the town on your side, the police, church, etc. All I can do is to live a life out of the spotlight with my wife doing the dirty work. I think the risk here is much less than the risk back in California for getting shot or robbed.


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## Lunkan

amcan13 said:


> I think the risk here is much less than the risk back in California for getting shot or robbed.


 Yes. An American living close to NPA say its the safest place he had ever lived at  
Similar to some others elsewhere. Them being affraid of NPA are often people living faaar from NPA and never have been in contact with them 🤣 (I havent neither, but I know several who have, and they have no problem with NPA and even like their actions. As one said "NPA do better Police work here than the Police do".)

But I would try to stay away from muslim guerillas because of the kidnappings of innocent civilians just to get much money,
while I have never heared of NPA attacking any civilians except them working for their enemies or someone missbehaving very much. If NPA e g dont like you try to enter somewhere, they just tell you to turn and go back.


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## bigpearl

Lunkan we are all odd mixes created and built from life experiences thus building expectations and needs, countries matter little. I certainly hear what you are saying but different strokes etc. I have posted many times on our contributions to the better half's family here over the last 10 years while I give nothing to my own, they are self sufficient and self made, need nothing and remember Australia is a very different culture to many other countries especially this one.

As for how long is a piece of string or how many times you are prepared to bend over and be used? Totally up to the individual and little more.
Perhaps I/we are different as a same sex couple and not recognised by law here, eg legal leases, no family obligations legally and no annulment rubbish. Point here is some times one has to man up and say no, you/your family did this, why should I pull you out of the sh#t again?
Easy for me as I can move on, probably will it looks like but I will not fork out my hard (does that meaning have any value here?) cash for foolish choices?

Welcome to the Philippines and I'm sure there are worse choices.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## M.C.A.

bigpearl said:


> Lunkan we are all odd mixes created and built from life experiences thus building expectations and needs, countries matter little. I certainly hear what you are saying but different strokes etc. I have posted many times on our contributions to the better half's family here over the last 10 years while I give nothing to my own, they are self sufficient and self made, need nothing and remember Australia is a very different culture to many other countries especially this one.
> 
> As for how long is a piece of string or how many times you are prepared to bend over and be used? Totally up to the individual and little more.
> Perhaps I/we are different as a same sex couple and not recognised by law here, eg legal leases, no family obligations legally and no annulment rubbish. Point here is some times one has to man up and say no, you/your family did this, why should I pull you out of the sh#t again?
> Easy for me as I can move on, probably will it looks like but I will not fork out my hard (does that meaning have any value here?) cash for foolish choices?
> 
> Welcome to the Philippines and I'm sure there are worse choices.
> 
> OMO.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


I have been through so many arguments over giving away money to the In-laws that I've lost count so we definitely agree there Steve. As poor as they appear to be they always have money for booze, extramarital affairs, cigarettes, and running around to other provincial areas, while their kids are so skinny they look like toothpicks.


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## bigpearl

Yes and stupid choices has put me in the singles line because I refused to bend over this time, I did warn them not to listen to Tsismis and conspiracy theories and now I am out of the will,,,,,, not that I am interested as they have nothing, well little. Point here is because I owned my choice I now see the true colours of the family now in debt. Read my other contributions for those that don't know.

Hear your pain Mark, take care through these trying times.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> As poor as they appear to be they always have money for booze, extramarital affairs, cigarettes, and nd running around to other provincial areas, while their kids are so skinny they look like toothpicks.


 Yes, booze and cigarettes are easy to see and good arguments to not need to support them 

The most poor Filipino family I know any closer in the Philippines are short of food, but the eldest sons drink so much so police take them often missbehaving much being drunk.
(But its a problem they live together with the good behaving not lazy ones. Thats why I dont want to marry their good behaving sister as long as the bad and the good ones live together, because I refuse to support people who dont do their best, but law say have to support the good ones, but then would the bad ones take sneak advantage of that too by they live together. I told her and she understood/agreed.)


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## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> Yes, booze and cigarettes are easy to see and good arguments to not need to support them


I'm not buying booze and cigarettes for anyone. If i have a little extra money left over, then I don't mind buying baby food, school supplies, or other necessities, but I refuse to pay for other people's bad habits. Once you start paying for other people's vices, then it is almost impossible to shut off the tap.


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## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> I'm not buying booze and cigarettes for anyone. If i have a little extra money left over, then I don't mind buying baby food, school supplies, or other necessities, but I refuse to pay for other people's bad habits. Once you start paying for other people's vices, then it is almost impossible to shut off the tap.


 Well. I think even worse for them  =If they can afford booze/cigarettes then they can afford to buy everything else themselves, not needing any support from me, because booze/cigarettes is suppoused to be LAST priority...
Except when visit, then I would bring some gifts, I would live far away so IF support it would be sending money, and then I cant control what they are spending them at.


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## art1946

hey Maxx62

You got that right. I will never pay for bad habits either. All they are is free loaders as they say here. I witness that when I was living there in tagum City. They felt I should buy them beer, cigarettes and etc. That was out of the question.

art


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## lefties43332

I also spent 11 yrs there and son and i left in 2017 . About all i have read here is true. They dont like us,they just like what we can do for them. _m really happy to be back in usa. His mom has never done anything for him.....not xmas,not birthdays nada......even when i supported her with house and everything. He is 7 and considers he has no mom. Thats her doing. In 5 yrs in usa she has talked to him maybe 10 times and the last time on video call she told him wait. After 30 minutes she wasnt back so i told him hang up. He didnt want to do the video call to begin with and then she did that. I told him he doesnt have to do it anymore. She just craps on him. Very very strange people. I also had another gf before his mom aborted our baby at 4 months in the womb and lied about it. The list goes on and on! One month in usa my son told me he didnt want to go back to philippines even though his mom was there._


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## art1946

hey Lefties

I admire you for taking care of your son. I would not send her a dime of money and sure wouldn't get her a place to live. I agree about so many there just want to see how much help they can get from us.

Art


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## lefties43332

art1946 said:


> hey Lefties
> 
> I admire you for taking care of your son. I would not send her a dime of money and sure wouldn't get her a place to live. I agree about so many there just want to see how much help they can get from us.
> 
> Art


She hasnt gotten anything much from me in 1.5 yrs now and had to go back to living like a filipino. Had to move out of the house i had and into one of those concrete filipino communities (fiesta).


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## Maxx62

art1946 said:


> hey Maxx62
> 
> You got that right. I will never pay for bad habits either. All they are is free loaders as they say here. I witness that when I was living there in tagum City. They felt I should buy them beer, cigarettes and etc. That was out of the question.
> 
> art


So, if someone reads this, as they are thinking about moving from the West to the Philippines, what they have ask themselves is, "Do I want to pay other people's bad vices once I resettle in the Philippines?". So, if you're thinking about moving to the Philippines, and you don't want yourself to be seen as a cash-cow for everyone else's bad habits, then never offer to buy booze, girls, and cigarettes for others, because once you open that door, it is very hard to close it. These are the sorts of things which people should think about before moving to the PI. - Just my opinion, and others may not have a problem with it, and some people just like to keep the party going 24/7 in order to make other happy.


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## art1946

hey maxx62

When I was living in tagum city just north of davao city my fiancee's brother invited us to go to Davao to the movies. He wanted to see a star wars flick. they left before we did. When we got to the movie house her brother and his GF was standing against the wall. I ask my fiancee why they standing over there. she said they were waiting for me to pay for them to get into the theater. I said he ask us to go. I never ask them to go!!!! My fiancee said I needed to pay for them. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE LIKE THAT CAN EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO PAY THEIR WAY!!!!! BTW I had to pay their way into the movies so my fiancee wouldn't get mad.

art


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## Maxx62

art1946 said:


> hey maxx62
> 
> When I was living in tagum city just north of davao city my fiancee's brother invited us to go to Davao to the movies. He wanted to see a star wars flick. they left before we did. When we got to the movie house her brother and his GF was standing against the wall. I ask my fiancee why they standing over there. she said they were waiting for me to pay for them to get into the theater. I said he ask us to go. I never ask them to go!!!! My fiancee said I needed to pay for them. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE LIKE THAT CAN EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO PAY THEIR WAY!!!!! BTW I had to pay their way into the movies so my fiancee wouldn't get mad.
> 
> art


I agree that paying for another person's movie ticket would make me feel very annoyed, but somehow I don't think it would bother me as much as being made to pay for their booze, drugs, cigarettes, or whatever. 

Years ago, one of my sister-in-law's brought her husband from San Francisco over to Cebu City, so that the two of them could build their retirement home in our mutual compound. This was back in roughly 2007 or so, a few years before my wife and I eventually built our own house. Anyway, this fellow went straight from having never having traveled outside the US, to living in a developing country, overnight. He was a nice enough guy, but he made the mistake of continually giving out gifts each time he saw someone. He purchased new cellphones for all the young chickity poos in our neighborhood, and he was continually buying Tanduay and cigarettes for the locals outside our gate, whom I refer to as the drunkazoids, because they are always smashed. 

Anyway, after about a month or so the wife goes back to her job at a hospital in San Francisco, and she leaves her husband alone, unattended, with access to their joint bank account. I don't know all of the specific details, but eventually my sister-in-law realizes that scads of money was disappearing down the rabbit hole, while very little work was getting done on their house. So, she cut off his finances, he can no longer buy things for all of his "friends", and one day things turned ugly for him after he told the neighbors that he didn't enough money to buy them any Tanduay that particular day. From the stories I head, the local drunkazoids got irate and started shouting insults at him as tried to make his way back inside the maingate of the compound. 

So, buying booze and cigarettes for the people outside the gate didn't win him any friends, and all it did was make locals seem him as a cash-cow. Well a short while after that wife hears that he's knocked up a couple of the local girls, and that put a screeching halt to all of his fun and games.


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## Lunkan

art1946 said:


> I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE LIKE THAT CAN EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO PAY THEIR WAY!!!!!


 Its a cultural thingy the one with money in a group is suppoused to pay all..
But its some funny RICH FILIPINOS dont seem to do so, because if they would they wouldnt be rich anymore  OR perhaps they solve it by never go into that trap  never go out with a group with no one else having more money than yourself,
BUT concerning Filipinos with SOME money, "middle class" there can be a chance to be "saved" by a such  wanting to show off as if they have more money than they have. Its rather common they are in debt by SHOWING a richer life style than they can afford to, its even common they take loans to get possibility to make a posh party... 



art1946 said:


> BTW I had to pay their way into the movies so my fiancee wouldn't get mad


 Well. Not knowing that cultural thingy the one with most money pay, combined with their "lose face" culturem can be a *reason to pay*,
but I dont count fiance geting mad as reason to pay in itself. If it would be an OTHER reason than that richest pay - save face situation, or other "legit" reason, then I would find fiance geting mad for not good reason about foreign pay, I would find that a reason to NOT pay, and if fiance continue to get mad after discussing it, I would find it a reason to start thinking of skiping that fiance. There are others in queue 

BUT an other cultural difference I agree with the Filipina about and not with the foreigners, who dont do it, its about marriage. I dont bother if married or live in for myself, but the Philippines is far behind so concerning marriage big part its as Sweden 1930 - 1950 = A shame for the woman to live together and get pregnant without being married as well as being a child born outside marriage. And parts of the Philippines is as Sweden 1910  =Ask her parents for permision before even date their daughter. * So I would agree to marry of that reason. (But I wouldnt agree to spend crazy much at the wedding 
(My eldest aunt was "half blood related" by my grandfather wasnt her biological father (married her mother =my grandmother when aunt was 2yo) although he treated her as his own as well as her kids as his grandskids, he made no difference so very few knew they werent blood related. She found it so much shame so she NEVER told it to her kids neither after Sweden made no difference since around 1970.)

The Philippines even have a LAW STILL saying children born outside marriage get only HALF share of what their born inside marriage sibblings get concerning inheriting even when they have same parents, only the difference if born before or after their parents got married...

* I knew a Filipina from such "1910" family. She is 30 now and married, but when she was teenager a young Filipino came to ask her parents for permition to ask her out, but she didnt like him so during that his meeting with her parents she farted on purpouse to avoid to get that date 🤣 and succeeded.


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## lefties43332

I learned early with bisaya gf"s to not fall into the give,give trap. I never had an issue with that as I was always very quick and firm to say no. Worked for me. I provided for my son and his mom until she got a job after 6 yrs. Then when he and I came to usa and I started getting evil messages from her about thinking i was her family but now seeing i was her enemy that was it. I said you bit the hand that fed you. Now you must do it all yourself,im finished.
That being said,there are a few things i miss.....very few. Not enough to make me want to live there again. I hear excuses from guys there all the time why they stay. Most stay because they are jaded. If I hadnt left when I did I would have been lost forever as I was already becoming indoctrinated and too passive. Most that are there have nothing in usa or their home countries. I was fortunate to still have my property here which is now worth big money I never thought I would see. It will go to my son.
Philippines is a past life,fun at times but I have more important things to accomplish.


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## lefties43332

I also had been told after all the bad things his mom had pulled that i needed to build her a house in philippines. I told her"I owe you nothing"i supported you 6 yrs and paid for the c-section and provided you a house and everything until you became so evil. I had a honda motorcycle I bought new which I suppose is gone now. The 5 yrs we have been in the states my son has never,I mean NEVER recieved a card,gift,video call on his birthday or christmas from her or his grandparents. They are a middle class not poor family. My sons grandma is a wonderful lady but his grandpa is a typical pinoy who still takes off to play sometimes. I believe her dad had pressured her from a kid to latch onto an american and use him to help fund the farm operations etc. Just my thoughts.


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## art1946

hey Lunkan

I can understand you saying not to pay to keep my other half from a quarrel is not a good reason. Well, it was simpler to pay the movie tickets then argue with her for a week. Filipinos are notorious to go silent and not speak to the other half for along time. I guess the silent treatment at least no arguing. hahahaha But it just eats inside me for someone to do that. I didn't want to be in that condition, so I paid the movie tickets for them.

art


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## lefties43332

art1946 said:


> hey Lunkan
> 
> I can understand you saying not to pay to keep my other half from bitching is not a good reason. Well, it was simpler to pay the movie tickets then argue with her for a week. Filipinos are notorious to go silent and not speak to the other half for along time. I guess the silent treatment at least no arguing. hahahaha But it just eats inside me for someone to do that. I didn't want to be in that condition, so I paid the movie tickets for them.
> 
> art


and u didnt marry her anyhow so tampo means squat.


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## Lunkan

art1946 said:


> hey Lunkan
> I can understand you saying not to pay to keep my other half from bitching is not a good reason. Well, it was simpler to pay the movie tickets then argue with her for a week..


 Thats thinking to much as common Filipinos  Thats thinjk SHORT ahead. In the LONG run its much better to NOT start giving in when being right... 
Although in this case SHE was right according to Filipono culture.

Compare: Small kid ask for toy/candy when being in supermarket, Parent say No, the kid start screeming, and the parent give in = TEACHING the kid it get REWARDED if behaving BAD...  
ONE time such is enough to make the kid know it can be worth trying to missbehave, while if NEVER give in for missbehaving, they learn its wasting energy to screem...


art1946 said:


> Filipinos are notorious to go silent and not speak to the other half for along time. I guess the silent treatment at least no arguing. hahahaha But it just eats inside me for someone to do that. I didn't want to be in that condition, so I paid the movie tickets for them.


 How many EXTRA times have you had to give in because of thinking like that?


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## art1946

hey Lunkan,

It ended in a divorce from her. I never really gave in to her much but we were at the theater that day and didn't want to cause a problem. I do agree with you. Like the kid screaming to get his way. He knew by screaming the parent would give into him. 

art


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## Maxx62

Well, I think that everyone can agree that having to pay for things in order win friends is a big problem, and that most of us probably weren't fully aware of it until after we settled in the PI.

However, here is another issue which a newbie who is considering moving to the Philippines should be aware of, and that is hiring people to do things for you. 

So, when I first moved to the Philippines back in 2012, I was supposed to hand carry a packet of documents from the Philippine Consulate in San Francisco, to Philippine Bureau of Immigration in Cebu City. Well, at the time my wife and I were busy doing other things, so one of my wife's relatives said that she knew a "fixer" who could take my documents to the Bureau of Immigration, so that I wouldn't have to stand inline down there all day.

Too make a long story short, I handed off my packet, along with three or four thousand pesos to some guy to take care of things for me. Everyone in my wife's family told me it would be fine, and not too worry. Well, nine or ten months pass by, I forget about the packet I gave the guy, and it just slips my mind for awhile. In the meanwhile, the paperwork was supposed to be turned in at the Bureau of Immigration within 60 days of my arrival in the PI, but that didn't happen.

After about nine or ten months I return to the US for a few weeks, but then as I'm returning to the Philippines I run into trouble with the Bureau of Immigration in the airport, because I didn't have an ACR card to go along with the sticker in my passport. They held me for about three hours, threatened to deport me, but then finally let me go after I signed a piece of paper promising to take care of the issue by a certain date.

Because of this little screw up, I had to grease palms at the Bureau of Immigration and also at the Bureau of Quarantine in order to get back on the right track. 

Well, you see, my-laws recommended this "fixter" to me, even though they knew the guy was less than reputable, and that he probably wouldn't do the job he promised to do. 

So, if you're planning on moving to the Philippines, one of the things you need to be aware of is that you can almost never trust the advice of those around you. In my case they recommend an unreliable fixer to handle my visa paperwork, but when things got screwed up, no one came to help me, and no one apologized for what happened to me. That is a little different from having to pay for things, but it is still worth knowing about.


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## amcan13

I should know better but I am retired and the baby is sleeping so I have time to poke at this thread.
This discussion seems less about the Philippines and a lesson in how to pick the wrong spouse. I have known guys with all the problems mentioned here but I know guys with zero problems too. and the ratio is way higher for the zero problems. 
The are books and tons of internet material about the Filipino culture, so anyone thinking about marriage should read it. It is just the same if a young man from California was thinking of moving to the Midwest or deep south, it is not what you are used to.
The further you are from a city with a lot of foreigners the more you stick out. I can't say there is another American in my city, and don't see any in the bigger cities. so I stick out and everything I do is watched. I have good days and bad with the staring and parents pointing and saying to their kids "that is an American ". So be ready for that. I always am happy to say hello with a smile. It also helps if you sing if someone starts say playing a guitar. I was at little shop on CDO and they started playing Beatles songs. I started to sing along. broke the ice, karaoke is a real thing here.
I am slow to learn the language and when they talk fast or I do we don't understand each other. 
Even if we use the same words, we don't use them the same. misunderstandings are common even with your spouse. You have to be patient.
Don't live next door to your inlaws. thought that would be an easy one, even in the USA but it seems that mistake happens a lot. I could never live next to my mother in California so why would I live next to my wife's here. get your own space, buy it legally, or do a condo. Just be close enough to visit frequently but not to have to visit. 
Food is everything here. having a meal with family is jmportant and feeding everyone that comes by is important. Be ready to slways feed family and friends.
My wife is my soul mate and she takes care of me like I take care of her. she always takes my side because we are a family. she also lets me know when I am wrong. If you want to live here married please find the right woman and not some young girl.


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## Lunkan

art1946 said:


> hey Lunkan,
> It ended in a divorce from her. I never really gave in to her much but we were at the theater that day and didn't want to cause a problem. I do agree with you. Like the kid screaming to get his way. He knew by screaming the parent would give into him.


 Yes they know IF ever give in. If never give in, they get to know not worth trying anymore.



Maxx62 said:


> I think that everyone can agree that having to pay for things in order win friends is a big problem,


 But foreigners DONT need to pay to get friends 
Such arent real friends anyway...
I have rather many Filipino friends, almost all of them havent got even a peso from me and almost all of them know they will never get any money from me (except if they work for it).
(As my "Personal News Service"  =People from different parts of the Philippines and different life situations from squatters to big land owners, but not rich, but only one rich at cash I found worth being friend with... Some of them are Filipinas, which I have told no chance we cant suit to marry each other, but they like to talk with me anyway. They tell me things without geting any money from me. The only I have given them are knowledge and some poor I have assisted with doing internet searching when they have been out of load. (Its free for them to TEXT at Facebook even when they are out of load, but they cant look at links and they cant surf. without load. E g I have done some school homework for them  assisted by internet such. And participated with parents in trying to figuere out what the teacher mean with sometimes ununderstandble homework instructions  even to small kids. Its rather common with very cryptical instructions. And some small business owners and a poor cooperative I have given business consulting for free. And some I have assisted with solution ideas concerning legal things.)



Maxx62 said:


> one of my wife's relatives said that she knew a "fixer" who could take my documents to the Bureau of Immigration, so that I wouldn't have to stand inline down there all day.


 Yes. A big part of Filipinos are "fixers" or Fixers of fixers  and traders/"real estate agents".
I would use someone to do the traveling and queing, because such would take away to much time of the life I have left otherwice  Although only if not to important if lose the documents, but I would allways follow up it they got things done. But someone I know are reliable and clever enough to not screw up


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## art1946

hey Amcan13,

If people was able to pick the right partner all the time, then we would have zero divorces. that problem has been going on since Adam and EVE. When a couple gets married we hope for the best, but so many things change during the course of a marriage.

art


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## Lunkan

art1946 said:


> If people was able to pick the right partner all the time, then we would have zero divorces. that problem has been going on since Adam and EVE. When a couple gets married we hope for the best, but so many things change during the course of a marriage.


 Well. Yes, but many of the changes to divorce could have been predicted and could have been avoided if asking me first 🤣 
(One of my sisters asked me first and I answered "If you ever will break it will be your faulr, he will ever leave you." They ended up married until my sister died he stayed inspite of he got much extra work by my sister even got paralyzed by several strokes. But my other sister didnt ask and got a lazy not suiting husband and two of the nephews chosed crap suiting inspite of I told them. But the youngest nephew has a good suiting.)
Or more correct there are *knowledge* which can tell level of CHANCE people with different personalities can suit to marry each other from No chance to good chance. People have different BASIC personality, which can develop different good/bad but can NEVER change to an other basic personality... 

E g position among sibblings give effects at personality for whole life. And there are some other signs, which tell basic personality. Then check if your own personality have chance to suit with such personality. If not - better skip and go on searching. Reaching a No chance conclusion can be done FAST if knowing how. 
while if there is a chance, then it take long time until know 

"Anyone" can suit ok with "anyone" if there is attraction, BUT only A WHILE. In the long run it will be crap if not being suiting personalities.
Some differences can suit ok together or even compleete each other very good,
while some differences in personality and goals can be told in advance have NO CHANCE to become a happy long marriage for both. (Sometimes can ONE be happy anyway, sometimes even not understanding its an unhappy marriage, by the other is unhappy but give in.)
A common misstake among men is "thinking with wrong head"  which often end up in divorce/geting scamed.


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> hey Lunkan
> 
> I can understand you saying not to pay to keep my other half from a quarrel is not a good reason. Well, it was simpler to pay the movie tickets then argue with her for a week. Filipinos are notorious to go silent and not speak to the other half for along time. I guess the silent treatment at least no arguing. hahahaha But it just eats inside me for someone to do that. I didn't want to be in that condition, so I paid the movie tickets for them.
> 
> art


Art you did the right thing... if you would have complained they would have shammed you somehow and for sure the woman making you pay dearly for making her look cheap, so chalk it up to a learning lesson for your next outing. Things do work differently here and we as Expats are expected to dish out so never forget that and if you do plan on an outing you'd better talk with your girlfriends/spouse before it kicks off because there's no thought process when it comes to money management, always expect the woman to impress and show off your hard-earned money if the woman is a kuripot (tight with the money) I'm so jealous of you.


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> hey Amcan13,
> 
> If people was able to pick the right partner all the time, then we would have zero divorces. that problem has been going on since Adam and EVE. When a couple gets married we hope for the best, but so many things change during the course of a marriage.
> 
> art


You brought up Adam and Eve ..... but IAW the scriptures we are to remain with the chosen loved one, not the exact words in the scriptures but a pledge nonetheless:

*I, (Name), take you, (Name), to be my wife/husband*, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, in the presence of God I make this vow. 

The Phillippine culture/laws do take these vows seriously.


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## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> Art you did the right thing... if you would have complained *they would have shammed you somehow* and for sure the woman making you pay dearly for making her look cheap, so chalk it up to a learning lesson for your next outing. Things do work differently here and we as Expats are expected to dish out so never forget that and if you do plan on an outing you'd better talk with your girlfriends/spouse before it kicks off because there's no thought process when it comes to money management, always expect the woman to impress and show off your hard-earned money if the woman is a kuripot (tight with the money) I'm so jealous of you.


 Well. As I wrote in this case the FILIPINA were right by the Filipinio culture and foreigners better learn such in advance to be prepared,
but if it had been something else then "they would have shamed you" wouldnt be a reason to give in, it would have been a reason to skip them 

Btw - I dont bother much what people think about me - except if it give bad effects for wife/kids - IF I would find my behaviour being ok/good if someone else would do same to me. The few, who I realy bother what they think about me, agree with me anyway  
I didnt give in for group pressure as teenager neither. All ll my friends during teenage did drink and big part smoked by group pressure, while I never did, but a "funny" thing was 2/3 of them said to me when no one else heared, they wished they would dare to say No as I to the group pressure, so the majority DIDNT want to get drunk, but they did because they THOUGHT the group wanted them to...


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## amcan13

I think my point was really to stop picking the wrong ones. I learned a while back that I had to change myself to stop making the same bad choices. So maybe that sexy, young Filipina is a good fantasy but if your still an old goat like me find a woman that is older and at the same place in life. Then all these charming  Cultural differences will be easier to handle in your married forever choice. Philippines is no place to treat like in USA where you can walk away any time. If you get married in the church your leaving your wife has a huge negative impact on her life.


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## art1946

hey Mark

you are so right!!!!

Art


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## art1946

hey Amcan13

Quote "I think my point was really to stop picking the wrong ones."

How does a person chose the right one? 

art


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## M.C.A.

Lunkan said:


> But foreigners DONT need to pay to get friends
> Such arent real friends anyway...
> 
> 
> Yes. A big part of Filipinos are "fixers" or Fixers of fixers  and traders/"real estate agents".


Lunkan, that just might be the best posting on this entire thread, "Foreigners don't need to pay to get friends" well... my wife doesn't understand that.

Slowly the fixer is getting killed off by technology and the computerization of government and also in the private sector, the LTO is like this now it's come a very long way since I first got my Drivers License but the PBI sure hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been here, they really need to upgrade their system and redundancies because we already carry the ACR card with the chip and then the deep back round checks, that's what drags these renewals down, there's already a law enforcement agency that handles trouble makers so?


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## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> Slowly the fixer is getting killed off by technology and the computerization of government and also in the private sector,


 Yes, more and more can be done online e g PhilHealth registration and some bill paying.



art1946 said:


> How does a person chose the right one?


 Ask me 
E g there are science about sibbling positions (eldest, middle, youngest and only child) concerning suiting chance. E g only child and Eldest cant suit to only child and Eldest. Although it dont need to be blood related, its kids LIVING as sibblings in same household with same caretakers, common in Phils, which complicate it some to define what they are.

There are some different oppinions about what make the basic personality, but as I see it there are three main factors deciding which basic personality a person get. There are around 600 different basic personalities by different combinations of these main factors, but they are in groups so some are very similar to each other. I claim all three main factors have to have suiting CHANCE to have any chance at all to be suiting in a long relation. Depending of which basic personality you are yourself around between 25 - 20 % of the women (or men when prefering that)have suiting basic personality. Then deduction need to be done concerning things as quality of development of the baasic personality, goals, look taste and in Phils the families  and/or the woman's capacity to resist to much demands from her family and such. 

((By I am a so odd personality  extreem difference between my very serious work mood and relaxed joking and I switch fast between them, its very hard to find a woman who isnt to messy for one of my sides and to boooring for my other plus I want to live far from neighbours, so for me its more like 0,1 % possible suiting inspite of I have a wide taste not picky concerning look, but very picky concerning personalities. In my life so far all - the very few  - except one have grown up rural. I am so picky concerning personalities so e g when I were 40yo I said No thanks to a young Swedish woman who looked as a young Dolly Parton - the head 

But for normal nice people it isnt so hard to find a suiting if knowing what to look for.

E g a Swedish friend of mine had looked for suiting wife long time in SE Asia, but I noticed he checked only No chance suiting. He was at a dating site to check them to meet at his next trip. Of course I cant judge what suit his look taste, but I made a seach possible suiting him and told him to check ONLY among them. He only met one of them I told him to chose from and around 8 from his normal No chance suiting. (Meeting many is an other error he do.) Afterwards he admited the one I had told was the only one interesting of them he met, but then he went back to seach among the No chance suiting anyway!!! 🤣 (That only suiting he met lost interest, I guess by figuered out he met many.) 20 years later he is searching among the No chance suiting still


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## amcan13

Wow, that is very complex and I am not sure I understand it all. 
I guess I am more a look at the mother and see the daughter type. Even in USA it is easy to spot the lazy, messy types. They are fun to date but not wife material. 
I figure any woman that can go to college, get a job and her mother drives her crazy is a keeper. It is a given that she has the same religion and feels about children the same as me. Any woman that let's a lazy brother take food from her kids or family is unsuited. 
Women are supposed to run the house and that includes keeping the low life relatives in check. Strong woman, happy household.


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## Lunkan

amcan13 said:


> Women are supposed to run the house


 Well. Such 60 years behind in time is possible to say in the Philippines without get jumped at by a big bunch of women 


((My ancestor men at father's side are opposite, great grandfather did spend so much time with his small kids so great grandmother had to tell him
-Stop playing with the kids and go and do some work!

(He was a poor carpenter making constructions and furniture on order in own business.)
Still when I were small kid my friends got very suprised when my father came and played with us.

Concerning me I dont mind doing some household jobs, but because of my injury wife would need to do most so I get away from some boring jobs  But I would have an extra demand at my wife =Prepare her to handle the business after I have died, so the family will have earning then too. So I would take care of the kids - after they have passed poo daiper age  - to give her time for the business.


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## Maxx62

M.C.A. said:


> The Phillippine culture/laws do take these vows seriously.


Well, whenever a "rich" foreigner happens to be get involved, then suddenly they take everything very seriously.


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## Maxx62

Lunkan said:


> But foreigners DONT need to pay to get friends


I agree, but somehow many continue to naively believe that they must pay for things in order to make a good impression, and many locals are insulted if the foreigner doesn't pay up. 

So, this is important for people to think about before they actually move to the Philippines, because learning the hard way after you've already moved to the PI isn't a very pleasant experience.


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## M.C.A.

Maxx62 said:


> I agree, but somehow many continue to naively believe that they must pay for things in order to make a good impression, and many locals are insulted if the foreigner doesn't pay up.


I used have many fake friends (all of my wife's friends) here until I had enough of this one way money drain, so I now focus on my immediate family and I do have new friends, people that I've met talked with on my own, I refuse to join my wife when she's out and about.. it's always the same slugs kissing my behind for their drunkard party needs, not gonna happen anymore.


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## art1946

M.C.A.

good for you. No more fake friends.

art


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## Maxx62

art1946 said:


> M.C.A.
> 
> good for you. No more fake friends.
> 
> art


Let's just hope that all of the dopes sitting at home thinking about moving to the Philippines actually take the time to read through all of this.


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## Lunkan

Maxx62 said:


> I agree, but somehow many continue to naively believe that they must pay for things


 Partly a self asteem thingy, us with high self asteem just dont bother what fake friends and such think.
There is even a hit song in Sweden where the singer say he is king for a day in the bar per month by paying drinks to people - and then being broke the rest of the month 


Maxx62 said:


> I agree, but somehow many continue to naively believe that they must pay for things in order to make a good impression, and many locals are insulted if the foreigner doesn't pay up.


 I say - So what? - to what such people think
EXCEPT in situations as e g theatre/restaurant where CULTURE expect the one with money to pay - but that problem can be avoided by never go to such  (with group).
(Beside bring some when visiting family plus having a fiesta for families of employees or perhaps whole small village, but the fiesta will the business pay  if its deductable.)



Maxx62 said:


> So, this is important for people to think about before they actually move to the Philippines, because learning the hard way after you've already moved to the PI isn't a very pleasant experience.


 On top of the common Filipino expectations at foreigners in general, many foreigners make it much worse by being big spenders in startup to impress gf and her family. E g an old foreigner did it so much so when he had fooled the family to agree to let him marry the very young Filipina, then he was broke...
Inspite of I told him not to one of my Swedish friends made same error, spending much in startup going to expensive star hotels with his new gf, so he got big problems to try reduce her expectations later.
(I have almost done the opposite, have spend very litle, nothing at groups going out not going out in groups, but got queue of women wanting to marry me anyway


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## M.C.A.

Lunkin, could you please share the name of this song  I'd like to hear it. 

"There is even a hit song in Sweden where the singer say he is king for a day in the bar per month by paying drinks to people - and then being broke the rest of the month ".


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## Lunkan

M.C.A. said:


> Lunkin, could you please share the name of this song  I'd like to hear it.


 "Kung för en dag" meaning king for a day. Artist: Magnus Uggla
When he became famous I found him just being an annoying bratt, but when he got older he became funny by joking with himself  
An other such later was saying he got done in sex in 4 seconds


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## amcan13

In the family setting the person with money pays but with us my wife knows only her one sister has a real job and money. So the sisters with money pay for the family. I can say that no relative is a bum or using any money for booze or cigarettes. Teenagers and adults all work together so they supply labor to the money we supply. 
Now as to the men I meet I have never been expected to pay for anything. For example at the meeting I was at today a collection for snacks was made and we all shared. 
I except responsibility for our family and especially the kids but no one rides for free and tasks are assigned. I don't know how we could survive as a family without all the women cooking and kids helping. It would be a lonely life without family and they just don't have a lot of money. We do our part and pay for college for our niece and she knows the repayment will be to help later when she works. 
I must live in a way different part of the Philippines because I just don't see some of the issues mentioned here. 
I spoiled my wife when we met because it how I was raised. It didn't affect what here parents expected, that was worked out even before the official engagement party. My wife appreciates what we have and does not squander it. We put family first.


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> In the family setting the person with money pays but with us my wife knows only her one sister has a real job and money. So the sisters with money pay for the family. I can say that no relative is a bum or using any money for booze or cigarettes. Teenagers and adults all work together so they supply labor to the money we supply.
> Now as to the men I meet I have never been expected to pay for anything. For example at the meeting I was at today a collection for snacks was made and we all shared.
> I except responsibility for our family and especially the kids but no one rides for free and tasks are assigned. I don't know how we could survive as a family without all the women cooking and kids helping. It would be a lonely life without family and they just don't have a lot of money. We do our part and pay for college for our niece and she knows the repayment will be to help later when she works.
> I must live in a way different part of the Philippines because I just don't see some of the issues mentioned here.
> I spoiled my wife when we met because it how I was raised. It didn't affect what here parents expected, that was worked out even before the official engagement party. My wife appreciates what we have and does not squander it. We put family first.


I hope you don't mind me asking, but if you had it all over to do again, would you still move to the Philippines, or would you rather remain back in the States? In fact I wonder how many people would have opted not to move to the Philippines, of they knew then, what they know now?


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## amcan13

To be honest I would not be here if my wife was not a Filipina. But I was going to end up some place tropical. I am just blessed that I ended up here with my wonderful wife. I know the things in this thread happen but I am lucky my wife has provided me a buffer from the craziness. 
I am lucky to have been able to build a house and now can live here surrounded by family. I might pay the bill when we go out but it is a small price for the work they put in helping us out. If we need help a call brings help. to be honest most of the paying is feeding people. sharing food is part of the culture. Again I am blessed that her parents come and visit with the only ask is usually for a church event. I agreed to a monthly allowance before we got married. Her folks have always been ok with the deal. It is the same my wife was giving them when she worked OFW.
So I would be here even if I traveled into the future and saw my life now.


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## Lunkan

amcan13 said:


> To be honest I would not be here if my wife was not a Filipina. But I was going to end up some place tropical.


 Where? I thought of many - and skiped  - before I even started thinking of the Philippines.


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## art1946

I am from the USA and really not proud of it. I think the U.S. is a mess. The laws favor people coming here illegally and they can get help when the people born and raised here cannot. I don't know how bad the other countries are now. Most things here are destroyed by lawyers. Everything has gotten out of hand here. People don't have respect for others. We have open borders so illegal aliens can just walk through. At least when Trump was in office he stop the flow of illegals and was building the wall. 

I lived in the Philippines and didn't really find to many problems. Their laws were not any worse then the ones in the U.S. I knew several police officers in the city I lived in there and always was treated nice. Actually, I was treated better then their own citizens. I would go to malls and the guards would just motion me on. At my bank they would take me a head of the others. I really felt bad to go a head of the Filipino customers at the bank. I told the bank clerks several times I would wait my turn.

art


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## amcan13

I looked at Australia, went there twice to check it out. Hawaii was a real option. I reviewed Fiji. Cabo in Mexico had some good points. Key West and Melbourne in Florida were brief options. Went to Tahiti but that was off list fast. Guam was looked at as an option.
I visited the Caribbean but didn't like the feel of the place. 

While I agree the United States has lost its way it has nothing to do with illegal immigrants and all to do with racism, violence, greed and plain hatred. I am embarrassed by the way the the so called leaders fight and want to exclude anyone who is not like them or what they think they are. The last thing the US needs is more Trump and his brand of hate. I also agree in most cases I am treated well in Philippines and I try to not abuse the opportunities I am offered. I have a lot to learn about the culture here and I am thankful they do not treat me like the United States treats legal Asian citizens there.


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## KatanaDV20

Lunkan said:


> Inspite of I told him not to one of my Swedish friends made same error, spending much in startup going to expensive star hotels with his new gf, so he got big problems to try reduce her expectations later.


This is very true and its been my strategy also. No stupidly expensive hotels and such. On another note I have friends who send money regularly to their gfs and they have become more demanding. Asking for more and they want new phones etc.

I am extremely lucky as my gf isn't like this and keeps accountant-level spending logs in a book which she shows me. Every last peso is accounted for along with all receipts filed in date order.


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## art1946

hey amcan13,

I don't know where you are from, but illegal immigration is a big problem. They take citizen's jobs here, bring down the labor pay and commit crimes. I do agree there is a lot of hatred in the U.S. but it is like that throughout the world. As for Trump, he was getting things done. Building the wall, keeping the illegals in Mexico and didn't just give our money away to other countries. He make them work for our help. so, where is your hatred for Trump??????

art


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> To be honest I would not be here if my wife was not a Filipina. But I was going to end up some place tropical. I am just blessed that I ended up here with my wonderful wife. I know the things in this thread happen but I am lucky my wife has provided me a buffer from the craziness.
> I am lucky to have been able to build a house and now can live here surrounded by family. I might pay the bill when we go out but it is a small price for the work they put in helping us out. If we need help a call brings help. to be honest most of the paying is feeding people. sharing food is part of the culture. Again I am blessed that her parents come and visit with the only ask is usually for a church event. I agreed to a monthly allowance before we got married. Her folks have always been ok with the deal. It is the same my wife was giving them when she worked OFW.
> So I would be here even if I traveled into the future and saw my life now.


Be careful, your wife cannot protect you from everything, and if the wrong people get the idea that you have too much money....well....


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> I looked at Australia, went there twice to check it out. Hawaii was a real option. I reviewed Fiji. Cabo in Mexico had some good points. Key West and Melbourne in Florida were brief options. Went to Tahiti but that was off list fast. Guam was looked at as an option.
> I visited the Caribbean but didn't like the feel of the place.
> 
> While I agree the United States has lost its way it has nothing to do with illegal immigrants and all to do with racism, violence, greed and plain hatred. I am embarrassed by the way the the so called leaders fight and want to exclude anyone who is not like them or what they think they are. The last thing the US needs is more Trump and his brand of hate. I also agree in most cases I am treated well in Philippines and I try to not abuse the opportunities I am offered. I have a lot to learn about the culture here and I am thankful they do not treat me like the United States treats legal Asian citizens there.


I completely and totally disagree with your above comment. Also, if you happen to be paying attention, it isn't Trump supporters who are attacking Asians on the streets of San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York, and Jussie Smollett's hate crime was a complete hoax, as are most hate crimes in the US.


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## Maxx62

Hey Moderator, maybe this thread has run its course.


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## amcan13

This thread is not about politics and I would be happy to discuss this in another thread. You seem to be lacking an understanding of American politics. 

I don't think there is any way for people not to think a kano has money. I do my best to stay under the radar. I will always have money compared to average retired person here. But I don't have much compared to the rich Filipino's or the foreigners I see around with private guards.


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> I am from the USA and really not proud of it. I think the U.S. is a mess. The laws favor people coming here illegally and they can get help when the people born and raised here cannot. I don't know how bad the other countries are now. Most things here are destroyed by lawyers. Everything has gotten out of hand here. People don't have respect for others. We have open borders so illegal aliens can just walk through. At least when Trump was in office he stop the flow of illegals and was building the wall.
> 
> I lived in the Philippines and didn't really find to many problems. Their laws were not any worse then the ones in the U.S. I knew several police officers in the city I lived in there and always was treated nice. Actually, I was treated better then their own citizens. I would go to malls and the guards would just motion me on. At my bank they would take me a head of the others. I really felt bad to go a head of the Filipino customers at the bank. I told the bank clerks several times I would wait my turn.
> 
> art


The reason why the bank guards motion you to go ahead of the others... don't feel bad, is that many of the customers are cashing their government assistance checks and they aren't customers and they'll have a check and a document, not a bank book.

The other reason you get head-of-the-line privilege is that you might be tipping guards and that's where the tipping comes in handy, I do this so we don't have to wait such a long time, the other reason is Seniors get head of the line privilege. There have been many times a much more elderly person gets up and there's no way I'll be getting up, so I'll also wait my turn also.

Good take on what's happening in the US, I learned my lesson about the dishonest media back in 1984 while stationed in San Diego NASNI and as a Helicopter Crewchief watching the illegals cross our border, we would practice landings down at Imperial Beach and then I learned so much more on my first deployment overseas about Russia and other Asian countries, we worked around Indonesia mainly.

Art, watch out for the fake treatment by the Barangay and Police it's just that, I would consider them to be fake friends but they do seem to favor us as foreigners but behind our backs, you'll find out they will always favor their citizens, lessons learned from me living here 11 years and so I no longer care to deal with the Barangay/Police and avoid them at all costs if possible, it's actually best that you keep a low profile, I won't go into detail we don't want to talk about that, but I don't recommend, treat them as they treat you and only and on a professional level.


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> hey amcan13,
> 
> I don't know where you are from, but illegal immigration is a big problem. They take citizen's jobs here, bring down the labor pay and commit crimes. I do agree there is a lot of hatred in the U.S. but it is like that throughout the world. As for Trump, he was getting things done. Building the wall, keeping the illegals in Mexico and didn't just give our money away to other countries. He make them work for our help. so, where is your hatred for Trump??????
> 
> art


Art that's fake news again, the world does not hate America, that was one of my major learning lessons being deployed throughout the world in the US Navy, it's a big misconception... look they flock to America. 

It's okay to make this a political discussion but if someone doesn't want to talk politics leave them out, please!  You'll just have to agree to disagree or open up a discussion, we already have a discussion on Trump here Trump running 2023 under the Mabuhay Corner I don't want the forum to be one-sided and would like to hear all sides and it helps to show valid links to back up your claims.


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## art1946

hey mark,

I never thought of the bank guards that way. I didn't know the locals were just cashing checks. thanks for the info.

art


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## M.C.A.

art1946 said:


> hey mark,
> 
> I never thought of the bank guards that way. I didn't know the locals were just cashing checks. thanks for the info.
> 
> art


Well there's a tip involved so lol... but if you notice people and they aren't just the elderly, sitting and waiting with a document and not a check book it's for their social assistance check, I'm thinking the bank has to take care of their customers as best they can, those that keep a balance, some banks require $500 USD balance while others l like BDO have the option of $200 balance no interest vs a $500 balance and interest.


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## amcan13

There is also the difference in type of customer. We have moved a lot of money through our bank to build our house. The manager knows us and always takes care of our business. But they also get a chance to up sell to foreigners that have the capital to invest in their products. Just like in the US, banks need to up sell to improve the profit margins.


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> This thread is not about politics and I would be happy to discuss this in another thread. You seem to be lacking an understanding of American politics.
> 
> I don't think there is any way for people not to think a kano has money. I do my best to stay under the radar. I will always have money compared to average retired person here. But I don't have much compared to the rich Filipino's or the foreigners I see around with private guards.


Sorry, not interested in debating someone who is fanatically devoted to their ideology as you clearly are. Additionally, I sincerely doubt that you're actually an American. Also, good luck flashing loads of cash in front of all the locals, because I'm sure that doing so will never result in any jealousy or resentment on their part. Remember, everything is good in the Philippines until suddenly, one day, when it isn't good anymore.


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## amcan13

I agree it seems the art of debate would not be fruitful. I can assure you I am fanatically devoted to the constitution of the United States, you should read it some time.


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## Maxx62

amcan13 said:


> I am fanatically devoted to the constitution of the United States.....


Sure, that's what they all say.


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## bigpearl

And the Philippines nor the OP's submission is not for this US political debate. As our mentor prescribes, Mabuhay club you guys can argue all day long there.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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