# Solar Water Heater



## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

My solar heating system is not performing too well, hardly any tepid water at best. I know the daytime temperature has dropped this week but I thought there would still be plenty of energy in the constant sunshine as the last couple of days have been cloudless.

Is this normal for this time of year or is my system not working?


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## bencooper (Mar 20, 2013)

You certainly should have good hot water. Depends on your system, but it could be a faulty circulation pump from the panel to the hot tank, or controller wrongly set, or the differential temperature guages faulty . I had the latter problem where the pump didn't cut out when the panel became colder than the tank water at night, and all my heat was radiated back into the night sky! You could peek at the instruments and try to make sense, but best to get a specialist, if you can find one who doesn't also crack your roof tiles. Good luck.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Every year I read about these problems on all the forums and remain glad that we don't have a "modern" system with pumps, controllers and pressure vessels to make them work. Ours uses gravity, provides adequate pressure and excessive hot water most of the year.

It is notably less scalding at the moment but still hot in copious supply.

Do make sure the panels are clean from all the dust that will have settled on them.

Pete


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## Geraldine (Jan 3, 2009)

I have noticed my water isn't as hot over this past week, but as the sun drops lower in the sky with the season and then moves around the back of the panels, it is missing them.

Ideally my panels need realigning.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

The first thing to check is whether your panels need cleaning. If they are very dusty they won't work nearly as efficiently.


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## Geraldine (Jan 3, 2009)

The panels are cleaner than my windows...!! got nbr one son up there before he went home.!!


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

In our new house we have a flow-type calorifier, working with gas.
For 2 people we need one ordinary bottle, 14 E at Paps every 2-3 months.
Hot water 365 days a year without need to use electricity if the sun doesn't shine for as much hot water as you like and always at a touch of a button. We like it!


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

die7 said:


> In our new house we have a flow-type calorifier, working with gas.
> For 2 people we need one ordinary bottle, 14 E at Paps every 2-3 months.
> Hot water 365 days a year without need to use electricity if the sun doesn't shine for as much hot water as you like and always at a touch of a button. We like it!


I can see the advantages but if Cyprus can't use the sun to get free clean energy, who can?

And gas can't be blamed to be clean....

Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> I can see the advantages but if Cyprus can't use the sun to get free clean energy, who can?
> 
> And gas can't be blamed to be clean....
> 
> Anders


Anders, he's talking about using the heater during the times when there is no sun. That will happen during the cold season when he will be heating cheaper than most of us who have electric immersion heaters. Although Cyprus boasts 365 days sun, apart from not being totally true, for some of that time it won't heat the water enough.

I have heard of a compact heat exchanger water heater which would use electricity far more efficiently but the capital cost of it is too ridiculous to contemplate.

Pete


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

Of course you can use the sun to get energy, but if there is not enough sun, you have to heat it up with electricity. Is that better? I just love to have a full bath, especally in wintertime, my hubby prefers the douche and it's great to do the dishes, wipe the floor, then take a bath and my hubby his shower. 
Never could do that before in the houses with solar panels! 
But naturally it's also a question of the immense difference in the cost of purchase.
We couldn't afford to have a really good working solar system for the whole year and the size we want and a gas heater in additional.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

die7 said:


> Of course you can use the sun to get energy, but if there is not enough sun, you have to heat it up with electricity. Is that better? I just love to have a full bath, especally in wintertime, my hubby prefers the douche and it's great to do the dishes, wipe the floor, then take a bath and my hubby his shower.
> Never could do that before in the houses with solar panels!
> But naturally it's also a question of the immense difference in the cost of purchase.
> We couldn't afford to have a really good working solar system for the whole year and the size we want and a gas heater in additional.


Sorry I misunderstood, and thought you used gas all year round. I ofc understand you want water also in the winter. I do too.

Anders


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

We do use the gas all over the year.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

die7 said:


> We do use the gas all over the year.


Please help me understand your confusing posts.

Are you now clarifying that you don't have a solar water system and that you use gas all year round to heat water?

Pete


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

Yes and we are very happy with it. Had solar panels in the rented houses before we build our own house.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

I have never heard of this over here.

I find it hard to believe that it is cheaper to heat all the year round than have free heating for at least 9 months of the year and boost the remaining time.

But obviously you are happy with your decision. You may be even happier in 10 years time if gas prices drop!

Pete


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

Believe me, IF we had free hot water 9 months a year, 24 hours a day, we would have the solar heater. 
But we often did not have it when we needed it in the old house, early in the morning, for several things at the same time......., 300l was often not enough or /and expensive to heat them per electricity when the sun doesn't do the job.
Sometimes we needed 500 l within 1 hour, sometimes just 50l, but had to heat up the whole quantitity
I'm sure there are technical solutions for that, it's just a matter of money!!
For us thousands for a solar water system that fits our needs is simply too much,
so the costs of about 600 E for the gadget and then:
7 E per month (or even less in summertime) for constant hot water whenever we need it, is just perfect.


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## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

die7 said:


> Sometimes we needed 500 l within 1 hour, sometimes just 50l, but had to heat up the whole quantitity


500 Liters per hour??  a bath is about 80 liters, and the average shower is 35 liters. this is mixed warm water. Are you sure you need 500 liters per hour hot water? that sounds pretty..... high....

Martijn :ranger:


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

Yes, sometimes we need alt least a quantity higher than a usual boiler has. Our bathtube has 180l, 80l, brrrrh and 3,5 bucketful for a shower? Not enough for me, maybe for hubby (he's bald ) You should also see our 5 dogs, when they come in in wintertime. They can go outside all day long cause we live in the middle of nowhere and there is a lot of 'nature', perfect for them, they like to get dirty :rofl: and often each of them needs a bucket of warm water at least once a day.....
Cleaning the floors: 3 buckets.........
We have a large garden, a lot of work outside, so even we need a bucket extra many times.
The 250l hot water, we had in the old house, definitely was not enough. Too often we had to heat up a second amount, which took long and needed the electricity.
Additionaly my mother visits us for 1-2 months a year, usually in wintertime.......
I was just fed up with the situation, that the hot water was finished, just when you needed some litres more.
With the gas: very comfortable and cheap now!
Our electricity bill is 20-40 E lower than it was before.
As said before there is also the huge difference in acquisition costs!


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

die7 said:


> Yes, sometimes we need alt least a quantity higher than a usual boiler has. Our bathtube has 180l, 80l, brrrrh and 3,5 bucketful for a shower? Not enough for me, maybe for hubby (he's bald ) You should also see our 5 dogs, when they come in in wintertime. They can go outside all day long cause we live in the middle of nowhere and there is a lot of 'nature', perfect for them, they like to get dirty :rofl: and often each of them needs a bucket of warm water at least once a day.....
> Cleaning the floors: 3 buckets.........
> We have a large garden, a lot of work outside, so even we need a bucket extra many times.
> The 250l hot water, we had in the old house, definitely was not enough. Too often we had to heat up a second amount, which took long and needed the electricity.
> ...


So there is only one negative thing then, its not very good for the environment.


Anders


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

I hope the environment pardons me my bottle of gas every 2 months and the fact, escpecially casuse we cannot afford anything else. As a punishment we collect the rubish every monday in wintertime, left by all the hunters who use our land for their sport and dumpside and go for shopping with a jutebag instead of using millions of plastic bags.......
Sometimes you have to balance pros and cons.
I just wanted to explain this possiblility especially for people who are low on funds.:yo:


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## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

die7 said:


> Yes, sometimes we need alt least a quantity higher than a usual boiler has. Our bathtube has 180l, 80l, brrrrh and 3,5 bucketful for a shower? Not enough for me, maybe for hubby (he's bald ) You should also see our 5 dogs, when they come in in wintertime. They can go outside all day long cause we live in the middle of nowhere and there is a lot of 'nature', perfect for them, they like to get dirty :rofl: and often each of them needs a bucket of warm water at least once a day.....
> Cleaning the floors: 3 buckets.........
> We have a large garden, a lot of work outside, so even we need a bucket extra many times.
> The 250l hot water, we had in the old house, definitely was not enough. Too often we had to heat up a second amount, which took long and needed the electricity.
> ...


I'm sorry - I know we are now way off topic etc, but I am just not buying the 500 Ltr number - it is downright ridiculous. If you have a look here  you will see that the official UK government regulation call for available hot water to be 225 Ltr per person PER DAY for hospital wards treating infectious disease. Only the maternity wards use the same amount of hot water. Every other public building type uses less hot water per person per day. The PDF in the link also provides some handy references for typical average and peak time usage. It then goes on to list the INDUSTRIAL SCALE water heater systems you will need to meet this demand. Referencing your statements against this list I suspect that although you might have saved a bit of money on the equipment, your planning and engineering cost to pull off this level of industrial scale hot water production must have been significant. 

I also suspect that you might just have had a duff solar water heater system in your previous dwelling.....

Martijn :ranger:


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

mdekkers said:


> I also suspect that you might just have had a duff solar water heater system in your previous dwelling.....
> 
> Martijn :ranger:


Yes we had, just the 'usual' one, but I already defined our needs, unfortunately the sun does not help us too often...
Of course there are many days that we would not even need 200l, but you have to overlook the whole year.
Fact is that we often heated up the 250l unnecessarily, cause we only need 50 or so, but had to use electricity.
You re right, would be ridiculous to buy a 500l heater. That does not solve the problem.


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## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

die7 said:


> Yes we had, just the 'usual' one, but I already defined our needs, unfortunately the sun does not help us too often...
> Of course there are öaso many days that we would not even need 200l, but you have to overlook the whole year.
> Fact is that we often heated up the 250l unnecessarily, cause we only need 50 or so, but had to use electricity.


Are you sure you live in Cyprus? You know, the Island in the Med? With about 3500 hours per year sunshine? Not Cyprus, London? With only 1400 hours of sun per year?

Martijn :ranger:


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

Yes, I'm sure, for many years now. The sun just has another daily routine than we have and - of course- we are delighted at every donation for buying a perfect solar heating system


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

Hi, I'm Rema, remember me? I started this thread with my "problem' solar water heater. Pleased to report there is no problem with my system, seems we used too much hot water earlier in the day and there was insufficient time to heat it back up for evening showers.
I too don't like not having plenty of hot water in the morning for showers etc but don't want to put the electric boost on unless I really have to. In the UK we had a demand hot water system fired by gas, instant hot water at the turn of the tap and no big reserve tank to heat up water you don't need. Are they, or similar, available in Cyprus?
Secondly, I see most, if not all, solar water heating systems use 2 panels, is there any real benefit (hot water availability that is, not installation cost) in increasing the number to say, three or even four?


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## die7 (Nov 6, 2012)

Rema said:


> In the UK we had a demand hot water system fired by gas, instant hot water at the turn of the tap and no big reserve tank to heat up water you don't need. Are they, or similar, available in Cyprus?


Rema, if you read my posts: that's exactly what we have!


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

Rema said:


> Hi, I'm Rema, remember me? I started this thread with my "problem' solar water heater. Pleased to report there is no problem with my system, seems we used too much hot water earlier in the day and there was insufficient time to heat it back up for evening showers.
> I too don't like not having plenty of hot water in the morning for showers etc but don't want to put the electric boost on unless I really have to. In the UK we had a demand hot water system fired by gas, instant hot water at the turn of the tap and no big reserve tank to heat up water you don't need. Are they, or similar, available in Cyprus?
> Secondly, I see most, if not all, solar water heating systems use 2 panels, is there any real benefit (hot water availability that is, not installation cost) in increasing the number to say, three or even four?


A bigger very well isolated hot water tank and more panels would of course help. We have friends in Germany that only use solar in summer for all warm water. They have 4 panels. But that is in Germany. I think a bigger very well isolated tank for storage of warm water is the most effective. Perhaps they are not available in Cyprus. 


Anders


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

I can't believe those figures either. We had simple solar panels and did not have to use extra electricity very often.

I assume there are no longer any water problems in Cyprus?!


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## kdw2k (May 13, 2013)

Our water solar system needs to be topped up with water!
If it gets low the water runs cool to cold regardless of the suns heat. Once topped up it only takes minutes to run red hot!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2013)

kdw2k said:


> Our water solar system needs to be topped up with water!
> If it gets low the water runs cool to cold regardless of the suns heat. Once topped up it only takes minutes to run red hot!


Doesn't the pump fill it automatically?

Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

kdw2k said:


> Our water solar system needs to be topped up with water!
> If it gets low the water runs cool to cold regardless of the suns heat. Once topped up it only takes minutes to run red hot!


Something sounds very wrong here.

Your mains supply should automatically fill your cold tank and be controlled by a regular ball valve inside the tank. This tank should provide a direct feed to the hot water tank. The solar panels should either circulate the water in the hot tank to heat it (open system) or circulate their own sealed water through a heating coil inside the hot tank (closed system). The only pumps involved, if any, should be for feeding the hot and cold water to the house and increasing its pressure.

Pete


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## kdw2k (May 13, 2013)

No Mr Anders it doesn't seem too, however that's mans work so I will mention it to the hubster! Maybe the pumps broke!


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

In Germany our neighbors bought this solar water heater with a gas booster. They get all warm water for six months without gas-help, 3 months with a little help from gas and 3 months mostly from the gas. The tank is 315 liter and the temperature goes down only 2 degrees per 24 hours if no energy-source is connected.

Not available in Cyprus but can be imported from UK

Cost around 3000 euro complete with solar panels. No tank on the roof, only the panels

Dux Sunpro Gas Solar | Solar Hot Water Systems | Gas Boosted Solar


Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> In Germany our neighbors bought this solar water heater with a gas booster. They get all warm water for six months without gas-help, 3 months with a little help from gas and 3 months mostly from the gas. The tank is 315 liter and the temperature goes down only 2 degrees per 24 hours if no energy-source is connected.
> 
> Not available in Cyprus but can be imported from UK
> 
> ...


That's a very interesting heating system. They don't mention water hardness and I wonder if there could be a problem of panel scaling as it is a direct heating system. If not it looks a very sensible option.

Pete


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

PeteandSylv said:


> That's a very interesting heating system. They don't mention water hardness and I wonder if there could be a problem of panel scaling as it is a direct heating system. If not it looks a very sensible option.
> 
> Pete


The problem was the same in Germany. We had the same scaling almost as here. This friends used some electrical system around the incoming water that prevented scale buildup. I have looked for them to have hear and there is many different ones sold in UK

Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> The problem was the same in Germany. We had the same scaling almost as here. This friends used some electrical system around the incoming water that prevented scale buildup. I have looked for them to have hear and there is many different ones sold in UK
> 
> Anders


I looked at these years ago. They were nearly always sold by commission-only salesmen at ridiculous prices. I could find no independent test reviews anywhere that said that they work. I have got a second-hand one in my shed which I've never bothered to fit as there's nowhere suitable on the incoming mains to fit it. I also don't know if they would work on rubber pipe as they seem to provide varying AC currents to cause a fluctuating magnetic effect which may be very minimal without the help of copper pipe.

Pete


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## buster12 (Oct 9, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I looked at these years ago. They were nearly always sold by commission-only salesmen at ridiculous prices. I could find no independent test reviews anywhere that said that they work. I have got a second-hand one in my shed which I've never bothered to fit as there's nowhere suitable on the incoming mains to fit it. I also don't know if they would work on rubber pipe as they seem to provide varying AC currents to cause a fluctuating magnetic effect which may be very minimal without the help of copper pipe.
> 
> Pete


As far as I am aware (supported by my own experience) these electrical systems are a waste of money! You can buy salt based treatment systems from around euro1000 plus installation which are supposed to be good (Supplier details etcc. available if you pm me). I am also looking to try and import a system I used in England which was effective - more details to follow if interested, cost likely to be around euro300.

Regards,

David


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

buster12 said:


> As far as I am aware (supported by my own experience) these electrical systems are a waste of money! You can buy salt based treatment systems from around euro1000 plus installation which are supposed to be good (Supplier details etcc. available if you pm me). I am also looking to try and import a system I used in England which was effective - more details to follow if interested, cost likely to be around euro300.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David


Your system plus the Australian heater would be perfect

Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

buster12 said:


> As far as I am aware (supported by my own experience) these electrical systems are a waste of money! You can buy salt based treatment systems from around euro1000 plus installation which are supposed to be good (Supplier details etcc. available if you pm me). I am also looking to try and import a system I used in England which was effective - more details to follow if interested, cost likely to be around euro300.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David


Your verdict on the miraculous magnetic field water treatment systems is as I suspected.

Salt based systems are water softeners which definitely do work and provide soft water which will not cause scaling. A separate feed bypassing the softener must be made for drinking water as the softened water is not healthy to drink having a raised sodium level.

Pete


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2013)

PeteandSylv said:


> Your verdict on the miraculous magnetic field water treatment systems is as I suspected.
> 
> Salt based systems are water softeners which definitely do work and provide soft water which will not cause scaling. A separate feed bypassing the softener must be made for drinking water as the softened water is not healthy to drink having a raised sodium level.
> 
> Pete


So this one should be a better alternative. Closed circuit.

http://www.solahart.com.au/downloads/file/product/SH930_ClosedGasSeries_Jan12.pdf

Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> So this one should be a better alternative. Closed circuit.
> 
> http://www.solahart.com.au/downloads/file/product/SH930_ClosedGasSeries_Jan12.pdf
> 
> Anders


It looks very similar to the other one. Have I missed a particular feature that makes you say it is a better alternative?

Pete


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2013)

PeteandSylv said:


> It looks very similar to the other one. Have I missed a particular feature that makes you say it is a better alternative?
> 
> Pete


Closed circuit for the solar

Anders


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2013)

Vegaanders said:


> Closed circuit for the solar
> 
> Anders


They even have a Cyprus distributor.

Will be interesting to see how much price differes in UK and Cyprus

SUPERCLIMA ENGINEERING LTD
44A Vassileos Constantinou Str
Limassol Cyprus Cyprus

Contact
Nicos Siamplettos
ph: 357 257 35696 
[email protected]

www.superclima.com

Anders


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