# unfair refusal



## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Hi everyone please i need your suggestions! (experience Moderators, members and anyone who has been through the same shocking situation)
unfortunately my spouse visa was refused today because of unfair reasons.
the reason behind refusal was they didn’t accept my last mini bank statement and saw this as though I had not submitted all 6 statements (when I had from November to April, just the last one was a mini type statement, even though it was still stamped and signed by the bank and it shows the salary went in).
They also marked our relationship as not genuine simply because they couldn’t get hold of my sponsor on her mobile number.
her mobile number was out of service for a few days when they called, our bad luck that her number was out of service the 2 days they decided to try and call it. so they say they couldn't recognize the number we used as proof of communication even i submitted the phone contract to show it is my sponsor phone number plus load of proof of relationship emails cards photos wedding cards receipts... chat and call logs for almost every single day
We are thinking about appealing or a way to over turn the decision but we are feeling lost.. can anyone give any brief advice about appealing and if you think our refusal reasons would warrant an appeal? or any suggestions on what to do and what are the chances
please see attached refusal letter


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## PhilFromTheFuture (Feb 22, 2018)

Ytass said:


> Hi everyone please i need your suggestions! (experience Moderators, members and anyone who has been through the same shocking situation)
> unfortunately my spouse visa was refused today because of unfair reasons.
> the reason behind refusal was they didn’t accept my last mini bank statement and saw this as though I had not submitted all 6 statements (when I had from November to April, just the last one was a mini type statement, even though it was still stamped and signed by the bank and it shows the salary went in).
> They also marked our relationship as not genuine simply because they couldn’t get hold of my sponsor on her mobile number.
> ...


Based on your refusal letter, it looks like there is lots more to your refusal than what you’ve put in your message. 

The mini statement and the calls to your spouse were mentioned as refusal points, however they have also said that they attempted to contact you personally for an interview. They also contacted your employer, and although they got in touch, your employer wasn’t willing to give any information that could verify you as an employee. 

If these are valid reasons then your appeal would fail. 

Few questions for you:

1) You’ve provides a reason for your spouse not being able to answer the phone, but why weren’t you able to reach your phone either? They attempted to call you 6 times. 

2) Why did you opt to provide a mini-statement? You could have gone into your bank to have a full bank statement printed and stamped. A mini-statement may show your salary being paid, but it’s not the format that they have specifically reassured from sponsors. 

3) You employer did not provide any verification that you are an employee. Do you know why this is? 

Based on those points, it looks like they were not able to mark the relationship and employment requirements as met, therefore your visa was refused. Any appeal would have a very small chance of being successful.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

I cannot read your screen shot but looking back at some of your earlier posts you had a myriad of questions regarding accommodation, payslips and your short relationship evidence.

One of the issues was that your sponsor started her job in October 2017 and was intending to move to another job in 2018. One of your later posts said that your sponsor had accepted a new job starting sometime in April/May 2018?

Did this happen? Has your sponsor left the job your application relied on?

If so, then you have been rightly refused.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Cannot read your screen shot.

An earlier post by you said that your sponsor had been offered a new job starting April/May 2018? Did your sponsor move to a new job?

If so, and the HO contacted the employer that she had been working for when making the application, would explain why the employer could not verify that he/she worked there.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

Just because _you_ think it was unfair does not mean that it _was_ unfair.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

PhilFromTheFuture said:


> Based on your refusal letter, it looks like there is lots more to your refusal than what you’ve put in your message.
> 
> The mini statement and the calls to your spouse were mentioned as refusal points, however they have also said that they attempted to contact you personally for an interview. They also contacted your employer, and although they got in touch, your employer wasn’t willing to give any information that could verify you as an employee.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply
To answer your questions, there is nowhere in the refusal letter that says they tried to contact me (the applicant) they only tried to contact my sponsor and the employer
We provided The April mini bank statement because they couldn’t give us the normal one when we asked for it (and it was stamped and within the 28 days rule and showing the salary ect) 
each bank has a certain way of issuing it and the full April bank statement wouldnt be generated until the 11 of May so that why we chose the mini bank statement.
Concerning the employment we provided the job contract p60 letter from employer that has the details of the HR lady that she is hardly in the office, and I don’t know why they didn’t provide the info that HO want it may be because of Data protection or the other stuff couldn’t give any information because the HR lady was not there to verify.
at least the HO they have to give us a real reason. They can verify the number as long it is in the job contract the bank statement inspection report etc plus we submitted the phone contract of the sponsor and mine too.
Concerning communication we didnt only provide the number they say they couldnt recognize as a source of communication we also provided emails, facebook screenshots since the beginning of our relationship


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Crawford said:


> Cannot read your screen shot.
> 
> An earlier post by you said that your sponsor had been offered a new job starting April/May 2018? Did your sponsor move to a new job?
> 
> If so, and the HO contacted the employer that she had been working for when making the application, would explain why the employer could not verify that he/she worked there.


they tried to call my sponsor on the 05th of May and at that time she was still working there, she was still there the whole month of May.she has not even started her new job yet because of some reasons that has to do with making some changes in the work location as the employer said. 
i realy dont know why they couldnt verify it is weird is it maybe because of data protection or the HR lady was not there and someone else picked it up


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

colchar said:


> Just because _you_ think it was unfair does not mean that it _was_ unfair.


yeah i understand but they say i didnt provide April bank statment which i did provide it stamped and showing the salary of the same month. plus we provided the sponsor phone number contract that shows it belongs to her and till this moment she still using the same number


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Crawford said:


> I cannot read your screen shot but looking back at some of your earlier posts you had a myriad of questions regarding accommodation, payslips and your short relationship evidence.
> 
> One of the issues was that your sponsor started her job in October 2017 and was intending to move to another job in 2018. One of your later posts said that your sponsor had accepted a new job starting sometime in April/May 2018?
> 
> ...


no she was still working there when they called on 04.05.18 05.05.18 she worked there the whole month of May.
concerning the accomodation they didnt say anything about it, we provide everything inspection report, teenancy agreement letter from landlord giving me permission. and the only thing they mention about the relationship is as follow " you state that you are in contact with your sponsor via telephone. attempts were made to contact your sponsor via telephone on the number you provided on your application...we have not been able to establish contact with your sponsor as the number that you provided was not recongised...im not satisfy you are in contact with your sponsor via telephone as stated. by the way i stated we are in contact via telephone whatsapp emails messenger and we submitted screenshots and our phone number contract.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

The refusal letter states something like (cannot copy from the screen shot)

_While I can verify that contact was made with your sponsor's employer they were unwilling to provide any information which would assist in the verification of your employment.
_
I think you should contact the employer to find out why they would not provide this information.

Maybe your sponsor had already handed in his/her notice?


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Crawford said:


> The refusal letter states something like (cannot copy from the screen shot)
> 
> _While I can verify that contact was made with your sponsor's employer they were unwilling to provide any information which would assist in the verification of your employment.
> _
> ...


we planned to contact the employer tomorrow to know more about this.do you think a letter from the employer confirming her employment or why they were unwilling to provide information will help to over turn the decision or appeal it ? any suggestions on what to do?
my sponsor had not handed the notice till the end of May way after the HO called !!!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Ytass said:


> we planned to contact the employer tomorrow to know more about this.do you think a letter from the employer confirming her employment or why they were unwilling to provide information will help to over turn the decision or appeal it ? any suggestions on what to do?
> my sponsor had not handed the notice till the end of May way after the HO called !!!


If you intend to go to appeal then anything from the employer might help.

However, hasn't your sponsor now left the company you included in the application?

If the company had a 'problem' with giving info while your sponsor was still employed, they might have an even greater problem with providing a letter for one who has left.

..... and the immigration people might also have an issue with accepting a letter from an ex-employer.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Crawford said:


> If you intend to go to appeal then anything from the employer might help.
> 
> However, hasn't your sponsor now left the company you included in the application?
> 
> ...


yeah my sponsor is no longer working in that job.
the HR lady is a good person she has been very patient and helpful when asking about letter and stamping payslips etc so i'm sure she was not the one that HO spoke to on the phone, surely was someone else while she was not at work.
my sponsor emailed the HR lady today asking for clarification about not providing the HO with employment information so she said she will check that tomorrow and let us know.
the thing i cant re apply because we switched from Cat A to B which means we have to wait 6 months and by that time all other documents will expire (TB, Ielts...)+ 6 months of being apart


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Today we received an email from the HR lady saying:

""I am so sorry, I certainly haven’t spoken to them as I would have confirmed all the documentation etc we had.

I have checked with the team and they don’t recall a telephone call either.

Usually we would ask them to email [email protected] as we obviously need to verify their details too.

Let me know what I can do to help""


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

i need your help guys please


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Looking at your letter from the Home Office - I notice that they state that your sponsors number was “not recognized”
You have redacted the number - but it looks like it starts 001... 
Did you give the number in international format or as it would be dialed by somebody calling from the UK?
I suspect that you may have given the number in a format that cannot be called from the UK and if called gives the “not recognized” message. This would explain why your sponsor could not be reached by phone.
When I call numbers and get this message - I always check the number format and often need to remove some zeros or change the first few numbers to get it correct from where I am calling.
I doubt the immigration staff do this.
Cheers
Steve


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Looking at your letter from the Home Office - I notice that they state that your sponsors number was “not recognized”
> You have redacted the number - but it looks like it starts 001...
> Did you give the number in international format or as it would be dialed by somebody calling from the UK?
> ...


yeah it starts by 0034... a spanish number my sponsor has a phone contract a year ago while working in Spain, actually the HO wrote my sponsor phone number incorrectly, instead of 0034 they wrote 034 that why they said they didnt recognize it even it is written in all other documents as it is not how they wrote it in the refusal letter


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
These days - the convention on international phone numbers is +34 - not 0034.
That way, people know that it is an international number and in some countries you can't use 00 before the country code when dialling an international phone number.
Cheers
Steve


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> These days - the convention on international phone numbers is +34 - not 0034.
> That way, people know that it is an international number and in some countries you can't use 00 before the country code when dialling an international phone number.
> Cheers
> Steve


oh god. are you sure ? because as i know OO is the same as + 
i want to appeal it do you think it worth appealing it ?


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Ytass said:


> oh god. are you sure ? because as i know OO is the same as +
> i want to appeal it do you think it worth appealing it ?


Hi,
Here is more information on the + versus 00

https://www.howtocallabroad.com/qa/plus-sign.html
Regarding the appeal - that's not my field of expertise.
Cheers
Steve


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I doubt that you would win an appeal as you needed to have submitted six full bank statements and not 5 full and one mini statement as you have done. 

The sixth statement would have to have been dated on or before your application date for it to be valid... anything that is dated after that date is not admissible. 

Also, as appeals can take a year or more to be decided, you are better off waiting until your sponsor has been in their new job for six months and reapply as soon as you have the 6 months of payslips and FULL bank statements. 

What if you appeal and it takes a year for it to be decided and you win... there is no knowing how long it will take for your visa to be issued... it could be weeks or it could be a couple of months. If you just reapply after your sponsor has their 6 months payslips and bank statements etc, you could very well be here before your appeal is decided. I know that it’s difficult to be apart, but you aren’t the first to be refused and you won’t be the last and seeing as you’ll be subject to a minimum wait of 6 months anyway, you should just cut your losses and apply under Category A as soon as you are eligible (I am assuming that the new job pays >£18.6k per annum.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Agree with WCCG above.

You have so much to clarify for an appeal - the final bank statement (still don't see how your sponsor worked a full 6 months if she started work on 23 October 2017 and you applied 23 April 2018 AND the company paid on the 15th of the month - to my reckoning you should have waited until the 15 May to show a full 6 months of employment), not able to contact sponsor or employer, and the sponsor has now left the employment as detailed in the application.

I agree you should wait until sponsor has worked a full 6 months in new job and re-apply.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Crawford said:


> Agree with WCCG above.
> 
> You have so much to clarify for an appeal - the final bank statement (still don't see how your sponsor worked a full 6 months if she started work on 23 October 2017 and you applied 23 April 2018 AND the company paid on the 15th of the month - to my reckoning you should have waited until the 15 May to show a full 6 months of employment), not able to contact sponsor or employer, and the sponsor has now left the employment as detailed in the application.
> 
> I agree you should wait until sponsor has worked a full 6 months in new job and re-apply.


at that time when we did the calculation it was 6.5 months. yeah the sponsor has left the employment at the end of May but i thing if we appealed they would only process it based on the documents related to that period if i m not wrong :/


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> I doubt that you would win an appeal as you needed to have submitted six full bank statements and not 5 full and one mini statement as you have done.
> 
> The sixth statement would have to have been dated on or before your application date for it to be valid... anything that is dated after that date is not admissible.
> 
> ...


i do agree with you reapply is better than appealing it but the problem is being apart struggling away from each other and then by waiting for 6 months then all the documents will be expired; TB and IELTS inspection report...


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

i have a question please, what are the chances if i appealed and provided the following:
-6 months bank statements including April full statement and even for May 
-a letter from the HR confirming that they have not received any call from HO asking information about my sponsor employment (as i mentioned before we emailed her and she checked with the team and they all said they have not received any call from HO).
-my sponsor phone number contract.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

If the May statement is dated after the date that you originally submitted your application, it will not be admissible and you will still be refused, making the HR letter and the sponsor's phone number moot.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> If the May statement is dated after the date that you originally submitted your application, it will not be admissible and you will still be refused, making the HR letter and the sponsor's phone number moot.


yeah the May statement is dated after the submission date.
so lets say if i provide full bank statements from November to April (originally i submitted April mini bank statement) which caused the problem. do you think they will accept me providing April full bank statement?
Thank you for being patient with me.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> If the May statement is dated after the date that you originally submitted your application, it will not be admissible and you will still be refused, making the HR letter and the sponsor's phone number moot.


I don't think this is true. It's the date of the deposit that matters, not the date on the statement. 

On the other hand, the appeal process is lengthy and can take a year or more reapplyingmay be quicker.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

nyclon said:


> I don't think this is true. It's the date of the deposit that matters, not the date on the statement.
> 
> On the other hand, the appeal process is lengthy and can take a year or more reapplyingmay be quicker.


thanks nyclon what do you mean by It's the date of the deposit that matters, not the date on the statement.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I don't know how to make it clearer. What matters is that you have a deposit which corresponds to your payslip. The date your bank statement was issued doesn't matter.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

it is clear now thanks a lot Nyclon. based on what you have mentioned guys i think it worth an appeal i just hope i can win it and it wont take ages. another question: can i appeal it and in the same time prepare for a fresh application ? or i cant make a fresh application while the appeal is still running ?and please do appeals will have a bad influence on my future application?


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## Philo12 (May 15, 2018)

Ytass said:


> it is clear now thanks a lot Nyclon. based on what you have mentioned guys i think it worth an appeal i just hope i can win it and it wont take ages. another question: can i appeal it and in the same time prepare for a fresh application ? or i cant make a fresh application while the appeal is still running ?and please do appeals will have a bad influence on my future application?


Yes you can appeal and reapply at the same time. The only thing is once the new application is successful, the appeal gets cancelled.


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

Philo12 said:


> Yes you can appeal and reapply at the same time. The only thing is once the new application is successful, the appeal gets cancelled.


Thank you Philo12 i will appeal it while waiting for a 6 months because my sponsor changed the job


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## INLD (May 8, 2018)

Ytass said:


> Hi everyone please i need your suggestions! (experience Moderators, members and anyone who has been through the same shocking situation)
> 
> unfortunately my spouse visa was refused today because of unfair reasons.
> 
> ...




Was the employer number provided in employer letter or appendix? Didnt they call head office where your sponsor works?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

INLD said:


> Was the employer number provided in employer letter or appendix? Didnt they call head office where your sponsor works?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


provided the head of HR srvices details (contact number, email...) 
we contacted the HR they confirm that they have not received any call and the HR lady posted to us a letter confirming that


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## INLD (May 8, 2018)

Ytass said:


> provided the head of HR srvices details (contact number, email...)
> 
> we contacted the HR they confirm that they have not received any call and the HR lady posted to us a letter confirming that




Did they get the number from employer letter? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ytass (Nov 3, 2017)

INLD said:


> Did they get the number from employer letter?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i dont think it matter where from because it is the same number in all employment documents we provided


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