# Is it common for prospective employers to ask for proof of current salary?



## dizzyizzy

I have a job opportunity but the prospective employer is asking for copies of my pay slips. Is this a common practice in the UAE? Never been requested this before and I'm not entirely happy about it (is supposed to be confidential information) but maybe this is really common and I just had not heard about it. 

Feedback appreciated!


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## TallyHo

None of mine ever did and we don't ask for it.

But know of other companies that do require it. Like you I'm not comfortable with the practice but I gather it's to make sure you're well-qualified for the role (the assumption is that if you made $XX at your previous employer you must therefore be qualified enough blah blah). God forbid they should accidentally offer a 40K job to someone who previously only made 20K. 



dizzyizzy said:


> I have a job opportunity but the prospective employer is asking for copies of my pay slips. Is this a common practice in the UAE? Never been requested this before and I'm not entirely happy about it (is supposed to be confidential information) but maybe this is really common and I just had not heard about it.
> 
> Feedback appreciated!


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## BedouGirl

In the UK, when I lived there many moons ago, one could never fudge one's salary with a prospective employer because you had to hand in your P45 which reflected your earnings plus, at that time, we would take up references and request confirmation of last salary. Here, I've not heard of being asked to prove it though, however, I wonder how many people do actually tell the truth and how many employers check. If this is a job you want, then you will need to take a leap of faith and prove it to them. If they become your employer, will you feel comfortable that they asked you this? Where I work now, I interview my staff but I am not permitted to know what they earn even though I am their manager. Sometimes that makes it quite difficult for me to know whether they are 'value for money' when I assess them.


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## dizzyizzy

Thanks for the replies, I found this request very odd and I will politely decline for now. I can understand where they are coming from though, wanting to verify that the candidate is 'worth' what they say they are worth but I feel this is the wrong way to go about it. Wondering if maybe it has anything to do with the fact that they are an American company? If someone from the USA can provide feedback that would be great. Do American companies ask for pay slips, and if so, at what stage of the recruitment process?

Also another question for HR people: if I refuse to show my payslips, can they verify what my current salary is, without calling my current employer, which would make it very obvious that I'm interviewing for a job? (And potentially jeopardize my end of year bonus!)

Thanks again


Izzy


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## Jumeirah Jim

never been asked for this and doubt they could check themselves 

not a great start - would put me at odds with a potential employer

or are you applying to the CIA?


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## AJ-Brightonbythesea

Jumeirah Jim said:


> never been asked for this and doubt they could check themselves
> 
> not a great start - would put me at odds with a potential employer
> 
> or are you applying to the CIA?


Interesting thread. I'm in the process of applying for a teaching role. They have asked for current salary ( no probs telling them that as this would be on my p45 and easily checked against my banding level ) BUT they have asked for my 'expected salary !' How do I calculate that? Obviously I'd like the moon on a stick .... Job comes with family housing, medical, flights, visas & school place for the little one. Cheeky to ask for my UK wage & package? Band A British school 

Thanks AJ


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## vantage

AJ-Brightonbythesea said:


> Interesting thread. I'm in the process of applying for a teaching role. They have asked for current salary ( no probs telling them that as this would be on my p45 and easily checked against my banding level ) BUT they have asked for my 'expected salary !' How do I calculate that? Obviously I'd like the moon on a stick .... Job comes with family housing, medical, flights, visas & school place for the little one. Cheeky to ask for my UK wage & package? Band A British school Thanks AJ


There'll be no requirement to show your employer here your P45...


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## mehranR

dizzyizzy said:


> Thanks for the replies, I found this request very odd and I will politely decline for now. I can understand where they are coming from though, wanting to verify that the candidate is 'worth' what they say they are worth but I feel this is the wrong way to go about it. Wondering if maybe it has anything to do with the fact that they are an American company? If someone from the USA can provide feedback that would be great. Do American companies ask for pay slips, and if so, at what stage of the recruitment process? Also another question for HR people: if I refuse to show my payslips, can they verify what my current salary is, without calling my current employer, which would make it very obvious that I'm interviewing for a job? (And potentially jeopardize my end of year bonus!) Thanks again Izzy


The only reason I would ask for a payslip is if I wanted to give you a loan.
But I think you just answered your question. You obviously don't want the new employer to contact your current employer, so the only way to verify what you do and how much you make right now is to check your pay slip. 
The truth is anyone can write a great resume and can show how effective of an employee they could be but the truth maybe something else. Being an employer myself (not in dubai yet) I have had to learn the hard way. So I would say if you would want to be hired as an employee then there should be some trust relationship between you and the new employer. And if you don't have the trust, this deal Shouldn't happen.
Hope it makes sense. 
Mehran


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## Byja

Isn't this information kinda confidential? Not because of you, an employee, but because of your previous employer.
You can always get back to the new employer and tell them that your old employer does not want you to disclose any documents relevant to the way they handle their business, including salaries and employee benefits. As most of the companies actually do.


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## mehranR

By the way, the US companies are used to checking more than that. Some go to the extent of checking the credit history of their employees.


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## mehranR

Byja said:


> Isn't this information kinda confidential? Not because of you, an employee, but because of your previous employer. You can always get back to the new employer and tell them that your old employer does not want you to disclose any documents relevant to the way they handle their business, including salaries and employee benefits. As most of the companies actually do.


I don't think a pay slip has any information as what kind of benefits they get. Benefits are usually not trade secrets.


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## vildadalen

I have been asked to provide my pays lip for a big company in Abu Dhabi after successful interview. I got pi$$ed cause this is confidential first of all and I don't like the idea that a potential employer evaluate my future salary based on my current one. I found it very odd but the recruiter actually explained that it is a common practice in the UAE cause candidates lie and exaggerate about their current salaries. The recruiter also mentioned they want to benchmark my salary to the market value. 

I provided the pay slips for a whole year without any perks or allowances. They reverted with an offer which was half of my current salary. It was insane and I declined the offer.


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## dizzyizzy

vildadalen said:


> I have been asked to provide my pays lip for a big company in Abu Dhabi after successful interview. I got pi$$ed cause this is confidential first of all and I don't like the idea that a potential employer evaluate my future salary based on my current one. I found it very odd but the recruiter actually explained that it is a common practice in the UAE cause candidates lie and exaggerate about their current salaries. The recruiter also mentioned they want to benchmark my salary to the market value.
> 
> I provided the pay slips for a whole year without any perks or allowances. They reverted with an offer which was half of my current salary. It was insane and I declined the offer.


I forgot to mention they also asked me for my annual salary annexure 

I am just doing interviews at this stage so not only I think this is confidential documentation that concerns only myself and my current employer, but I think is still way too early in the process for them to be asking for this.

I have an interview tomorrow so I will tell them that I can't show them this documentation at this stage because is confidential and ultimately I still work for my current employer so can't go around sharing their confidential documents. If I am selected for the role and they insist on having copies of the slips otherwise I won't get hired, I will only give them the copies once the contract has been signed, and after showing them the originals for comparison, I will black out the name of the employer so that only the salary remains visible on the copies they will keep for their files. I think that is the best way to ensure I protect the confidentiality agreement with my current employer, and I fulfill the new employers' request to verify my current salary.

Still a bit pi$$ed off about the whole thing but sounds like a good opportunity and is a great company too, leaving aside their intrusive recruitment practices :tongue:


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## vildadalen

dizzyizzy said:


> I forgot to mention they also asked me for my annual salary annexure  I am just doing interviews at this stage so not only I think this is confidential documentation that concerns only myself and my current employer, but I think is still way too early in the process for them to be asking for this. I have an interview tomorrow so I will tell them that I can't show them this documentation at this stage because is confidential and ultimately I still work for my current employer so can't go around sharing their confidential documents. If I am selected for the role and they insist on having copies of the slips otherwise I won't get hired, I will only give them the copies once the contract has been signed, and after showing them the originals for comparison, I will black out the name of the employer so that only the salary remains visible on the copies they will keep for their files. I think that is the best way to ensure I protect the confidentiality agreement with my current employer, and I fulfill the new employers' request to verify my current salary. Still a bit pi$$ed off about the whole thing but sounds like a good opportunity and is a great company too, leaving aside their intrusive recruitment practices :tongue:


I have also forgot to mention that I have been asked for a salary breakdown during the interview in 2 different interviews. The pay slip thing was after I have passed the interviews. 

Good luck with the interview


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## Fat Bhoy Tim

I'd simply share the always significantly understated "basic" component, and tell them to make of it what they will. I wouldn't even consider showing them the full package.


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## ccr

No one ever asked me for proof of salary, nor would I ever show them.

In all interviews, I have been asked of current salary range (but not showing proof) and only a handful of times being asked for expected salary when I was in lower level positions.

When I am hiring, I do the same: ask for current and expected salary ranges but don't ask for proof. Half of the people actually showed salary receipts voluntarily.

In our industry, the salary is very similar between companies based on experience and locations so more about opportunities than wheel barrow of cash.


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## Guest

I find it odd even when they ask me my current salary, let alone showing the payslips. My current salary should be completely irrelevant and confidential.


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## pamela0810

It's so odd that this has come up. My sister in law works in HR and she just mentioned this to me over the weekend. Apparently more and more employers are requesting for payslips from their potential employees.

It shouldn't make a difference to the future employer what the person's current salary is anyway. A good company will make an offer as per the current market conditions and not based on what you are earning.


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## imac

ccr said:


> ...being asked for expected salary when I was in lower level positions....


and even then, my response has been a vague load of bullcrap along the lines of "I'm sure since this is a progressive organization, your total compensation package will be competitive taking into account the value I will bring to the company, and I look forward to reviewing an offer if one is made"... 

I have never thrown out a number first... not even a range... regardless of how much they push... if the interviewer keeps on insisting I give them a number, my closing response would always be along the lines of "We have spent a productive hour discussing the value I would bring to the company in significant detail, and I now look forward to see if you are agreeable to consider me for this position based on my skills"... which is a polite way of saying, your turn...


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## pamela0810

imac said:


> and even then, my response has been a vague load of bullcrap along the lines of "I'm sure since this is a progressive organization, your total compensation package will be competitive taking into account the value I will bring to the company, and I look forward to reviewing an offer if one is made"...
> 
> I have never thrown out a number first... not even a range... regardless of how much they push... if the interviewer keeps on insisting I give them a number, my closing response would always be along the lines of "We have spent a productive hour discussing the value I would bring to the company in significant detail, and I now look forward to see if you are agreeable to consider me for this position based on my skills"... which is a polite way of saying, your turn...


People have asked me what my salary expectation is and I actually give them a number because if that is over their budget, I don't see the point in wasting their or my time. That being said, I haven't really been offered that many jobs so perhaps I should try your approach


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## ccr

imac said:


> I have never thrown out a number first... not even a range... regardless of how much they push...


I am sure everyone will act differently and accordingly when you are either a) being head-hunted while being employed - or - b) looking for a job desperately after getting laid off.

Your choice when the new employer wants you. But their choice when you need a job.


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## imac

ccr said:


> I am sure everyone will act differently and accordingly when you are either a) being head-hunted while being employed - or - b) looking for a job desperately after getting laid off.
> 
> Your choice when the new employer wants you. But their choice when you need a job.


true dat... thankfully in my case, it was not "b"


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## Saint Ari

To the OP ... if memory serves, it is "illegal" (or just not allowed - not sure exactly which one, but you get the idea) is the US to verify salary from previous employers. Sure, they do call for employment verification ... but to my knowledge, they can only ask length of employment and title/role.

Perhaps things have changed, but when I was interviewing people then ... HR advised us of this.


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## Stevesolar

Saint Ari said:


> To the OP ... if memory serves, it is "illegal" (or just not allowed - not sure exactly which one, but you get the idea) is the US to verify salary from previous employers. Sure, they do call for employment verification ... but to my knowledge, they can only ask length of employment and title/role.
> 
> Perhaps things have changed, but when I was interviewing people then ... HR advised us of this.


Interesting point.
In the UAE it is "illegal" to:-
Tint your windows above 30%
Tint your front windscreen
Drive on the hard shoulder
Overtake on the hard shoulder
Have kids hanging out of sunroofs and car windows
Tailgate at 140kph less than 1m from car in front
Make people work more than 9 hours per day
Make labourers work when outside temperature exceeds 50 degrees C
Etc. etc!!!
Cheers
Steve


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## AlexDhabi

dizzyizzy said:


> I have a job opportunity but the prospective employer is asking for copies of my pay slips. Is this a common practice in the UAE? Never been requested this before and I'm not entirely happy about it (is supposed to be confidential information) but maybe this is really common and I just had not heard about it.
> 
> Feedback appreciated!


To the OP, I would like you to know I had to show recent UK payslips in order to get an offer with my current employer, a government entity with a very good reputation in AD.


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## londongirl82

dizzyizzy said:


> Thanks for the replies, I found this request very odd and I will politely decline for now. I can understand where they are coming from though, wanting to verify that the candidate is 'worth' what they say they are worth but I feel this is the wrong way to go about it. Wondering if maybe it has anything to do with the fact that they are an American company? If someone from the USA can provide feedback that would be great. Do American companies ask for pay slips, and if so, at what stage of the recruitment process? Also another question for HR people: if I refuse to show my payslips, can they verify what my current salary is, without calling my current employer, which would make it very obvious that I'm interviewing for a job? (And potentially jeopardize my end of year bonus!) Thanks again Izzy


 I was recruited from the uk by a big American company to move out to Dubai and they asked for my payslip after I had gone through the interview and had the offer. For them they were just verifying what I had told them was right, It was for a very senior role so whilst I was a bit irked, ultimately the only information that is on there is my own earning, and I had already been firm with them and told them what I earn and what it would take for me to move. The pay slip I think was also to verify I was working and a British citizen, I was also asked to send them my passport scan after the offer to they could get to work on the visa. Often asking to see your payslip is a negotiation tool, or to prove your work status in a country, you should know what they need to offer regardless of what your payslip says... You need to give them your bottom line of what you want...


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## Harryjones

dizzyizzy said:


> I have a job opportunity but the prospective employer is asking for copies of my pay slips. Is this a common practice in the UAE? Never been requested this before and I'm not entirely happy about it (is supposed to be confidential information) but maybe this is really common and I just had not heard about it.
> 
> Feedback appreciated!


Yes, pay slips are mandatory when you are about to join a new employer. They will fix your new pay only based on the current pay you are getting. You may get a 30-40% hike.


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## dizzyizzy

Harryjones said:


> Yes, pay slips are mandatory when you are about to join a new employer. They will fix your new pay only based on the current pay you are getting. You may get a 30-40% hike.


Stop posting rubbish. Pay slips are NOT mandatory.


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## arabianhorse

dizzyizzy said:


> Stop posting rubbish. Pay slips are NOT mandatory.


It may not be mandatory, but is there any law in the UAE that prevents an employer from asking for you last payslip.
Also when you are not the successful candidate, what recourse do you have if you suspect the reason you did not get that job was because you did not supply all the documentation they requested.
I do not understand the fuss. Why would you not supply your payslip unless you lied about your current package?


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## dizzyizzy

arabianhorse said:


> It may not be mandatory, but is there any law in the UAE that prevents an employer from asking for you last payslip.
> Also when you are not the successful candidate, what recourse do you have if you suspect the reason you did not get that job was because you did not supply all the documentation they requested.
> I do not understand the fuss. Why would you not supply your payslip unless you lied about your current package?


I don't know about others but for me is a matter of confidentiality with my current employer, who are, after all, still my employer. I signed an agreement saying I won't be sharing any company internal documentation with third parties and this includes pay slips, contracts and yearly salary annexures. They are still my employer, and I must abide by this. The other company has not even made an actual offer nor has even made a verbal offer so I see no reason why I should take the risk to share confidential documents with them at this stage. I wonder if they would be ok with this practice if copies of their company employee contracts and salary annexures were all over the place? Don't think so.

Later on if they tell me they want me but they need this then I may reconsider and give them copies with the name of my employer cancelled out after showing the originals. But not before they tell me they are actually planning on hiring me.


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## vantage

Harryjones said:


> Yes, pay slips are mandatory when you are about to join a new employer. They will fix your new pay only based on the current pay you are getting. You may get a 30-40% hike.



??????


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## BedouGirl

vantage said:


> ??????


 Totally!!! An absolutely ridiculous statement!


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## msbettyboopdxb

Harryjones said:


> Yes, pay slips are mandatory when you are about to join a new employer. They will fix your new pay only based on the current pay you are getting. You may get a 30-40% hike.


No, they are not!


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## msbettyboopdxb

Only 1 company asked me for pay slip the entire time I've been in UAE. They believed I wanted too much and apparently my previous company couldn't have paid me that. I said no. They insisted harder. Since the company had already closed down anyway, I acquiesced, got on photoshop and created something for them.


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## arabianhorse

msbettyboopdxb said:


> Only 1 company asked me for pay slip the entire time I've been in UAE. They believed I wanted too much and apparently my previous company couldn't have paid me that. I said no. They insisted harder. Since the company had already closed down anyway, I acquiesced, got on photoshop and created something for them.


A likely story.


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## msbettyboopdxb

arabianhorse said:


> A likely story.


You're entitled to your opinion.


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## arabianhorse

msbettyboopdxb said:


> You're entitled to your opinion.


Rather than tell your new company the truth, ie that you previous company had shut up shop, you instead chose to perform a criminal act, and forge some documents.


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## msbettyboopdxb

arabianhorse said:


> Rather than tell your new company the truth, ie that you previous company had shut up shop, you instead chose to perform a criminal act, and forge some documents.


A criminal act? Ok, moving on to ignore further comments from you now.


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## mehranR

msbettyboopdxb said:


> Only 1 company asked me for pay slip the entire time I've been in UAE. They believed I wanted too much and apparently my previous company couldn't have paid me that. I said no. They insisted harder. Since the company had already closed down anyway, I acquiesced, got on photoshop and created something for them.


It's a shame that people go to great extents to extract info from potential employee and it's is even worse when a potential employee lies and is not truthful.
There are two sides to this.
1- employee doesn't want to share their package because it's apparently confidential ( I don't see anything confidential in it). 
2- employer doesn't trust a word coming out of potential employees mouth
The only thing I see here is a big level of mistrust between both parties. If the employer trust me with their finances, supplies and so on then I should do the same.


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## arabianhorse

Looks like a major motivation for applicant being reluctant to provide their salary slips, is the fact that they embellished their current salary packages.


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## dizzyizzy

mehranR said:


> It's a shame that people go to great extents to extract info from potential employee and it's is even worse when a potential employee lies and is not truthful.
> There are two sides to this.
> 1- employee doesn't want to share their package because it's apparently confidential ( I don't see anything confidential in it).
> 2- employer doesn't trust a word coming out of potential employees mouth
> The only thing I see here is a big level of mistrust between both parties. If the employer trust me with their finances, supplies and so on then I should do the same.


You don't see anything confidential in a document that has the word 'CONFIDENTIAL' with upper caps and big red letters written at the top? (as in, my contract and yearly salary breakdown)? That sounds pretty confidential to me 

The whole thing has put me off quite badly to be honest, not even sure I want to work for them anymore. They still have not made an offer yet they keep insisting I send them copies of all these documents. At this stage next thing they will ask for a picture of my underwear


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## ccr

dizzyizzy said:


> ...At this stage next thing they will ask for a picture of my underwear


In that case, just say you always go commando...


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## QOFE

arabianhorse said:


> Looks like a major motivation for applicant being reluctant to provide their salary slips, is the fact that they embellished their current salary packages.


What if the employee has been on a too low salary and would like to change jobs to get a more realistic salary? Due to the recession in many countries a lot of people were hired with salaries well below what they should be earning. Don't they have the right to get another job with a proper salary?

It's not a crime to want to advance in life. However forging documents is...

Quite some years ago I refused to give a potential landlord my salary slips. If a landlord knows exactly how much you earn they will not feel bad about hiking the rent up. I had an unlimited guarantee document from my employer and that should have been sufficient enough.

I have never been asked to provide salary slips to any employer and won't be doing that in the future either.


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## dizzyizzy

ccr said:


> In that case, just say you always go commando...


LMAO in which case I totally would not get the job.

Oh, wait....


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## dizzyizzy

QOFE said:


> What if the employee has been on a too low salary and would like to change jobs to get a more realistic salary? Due to the recession in many countries a lot of people were hired with salaries well below what they should be earning. Don't they have the right to get another job with a proper salary?
> 
> It's not a crime to want to advance in life. However forging documents is...
> 
> Quite some years ago I refused to give a potential landlord my salary slips. If a landlord knows exactly how much you earn they will not feel bad about hiking the rent up. I had an unlimited guarantee document from my employer and that should have been sufficient enough.
> 
> I have never been asked to provide salary slips to any employer and won't be doing that in the future either.


At this stage I'm not even worried about the pay slips to be honest, is the copy of my contract and my yearly salary breakdown that I think is such an inappropriate request. They haven't even verbally said they want to give me the job, let alone send an offer letter, and as far as I know they still have not made up their minds and are still interviewing other candidates. Then why on earth do they need copies of all these papers, from someone they don't even know they will be hiring? To some extent I can understand they would want this once they are getting ready to put an offer on the table, but if this still not the case, then why do they need these documents for? The payslips I don't mind at this stage, from the feedback that has been provided here seems to be a common request these days. But not the other two documents.


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## ccr

dizzyizzy said:


> ...To some extent I can understand they would want this once they are getting ready to put an offer on the table, but if this still not the case, then why do they need these documents for?


They might want to build a compensation "database" for future reference to ensure that they don't "over-offer"


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## mehranR

dizzyizzy said:


> You don't see anything confidential in a document that has the word 'CONFIDENTIAL' with upper caps and big red letters written at the top? (as in, my contract and yearly salary breakdown)? That sounds pretty confidential to me  The whole thing has put me off quite badly to be honest, not even sure I want to work for them anymore. They still have not made an offer yet they keep insisting I send them copies of all these documents. At this stage next thing they will ask for a picture of my underwear


The confidentiality is more for other employees in the same office than for other employers. 
As for the other poster who mentioned about low pay, I always recommend telling the truth. I never hired someone who was unemployed. I can spend 5 minutes with someone and find out what they are about, I test potential employees and see how they perform. I need to find out how they follow directions. It's so easy and they cannot even tell that they are being tested but usually 60% of candidates fail the test. 
Facebook is what some HR people resort to. I have heard people say but it's invasion of privacy, I say if you have out it online it's not private anymore. Keep the privates in the private box.


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## mehranR

dizzyizzy said:


> You don't see anything confidential in a document that has the word 'CONFIDENTIAL' with upper caps and big red letters written at the top? (as in, my contract and yearly salary breakdown)? That sounds pretty confidential to me  :


I am sorry, I thought we were still talking about payslips and not the whole salary package. Sometimes my finger type faster than my brain thinks.


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## Jager

dizzyizzy said:


> At this stage I'm not even worried about the pay slips to be honest, is the copy of my contract and my yearly salary breakdown that I think is such an inappropriate request. They haven't even verbally said they want to give me the job, let alone send an offer letter, and as far as I know they still have not made up their minds and are still interviewing other candidates. Then why on earth do they need copies of all these papers, from someone they don't even know they will be hiring? To some extent I can understand they would want this once they are getting ready to put an offer on the table, but if this still not the case, then why do they need these documents for? The payslips I don't mind at this stage, from the feedback that has been provided here seems to be a common request these days. But not the other two documents.


If I was in your shoes, I think I'd tell them your happy to provide a copy conditional upon receiving their Letter of Offer. That way, if they have a genuine interest to employ you (and you still have an interest to work for them), everyone gets what they want. 

If they hesitate, then you know where you stand with respect to the job.


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## TallyHo

I wonder if you'd change your mind if you're ever made redundant....



mehranR said:


> I never hired someone who was unemployed.


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## londongirl82

dizzyizzy said:


> At this stage I'm not even worried about the pay slips to be honest, is the copy of my contract and my yearly salary breakdown that I think is such an inappropriate request. They haven't even verbally said they want to give me the job, let alone send an offer letter, and as far as I know they still have not made up their minds and are still interviewing other candidates. Then why on earth do they need copies of all these papers, from someone they don't even know they will be hiring? To some extent I can understand they would want this once they are getting ready to put an offer on the table, but if this still not the case, then why do they need these documents for? The payslips I don't mind at this stage, from the feedback that has been provided here seems to be a common request these days. But not the other two documents.


See payslips are fine, but I wouldn't share my existing contract, I don't see anything that confidential in a payslip apart from my earnings.. But my contract,m that can land you in hot water.


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## Canuck_Sens

Hello Dizzy,

I can share with you only my experience in the public sector. During my interview for my position here in the UAE, they asked how much I was making and how much I wanted in the interview.

They did not doubt and never asked for proof but rather they wanted a letter of employment stating that I was working there. In Canada, letters of employment are issued with the annual gross salary.

However, while I was negotiating, I reminded my future employers that Salary negotiations go beyond gross and bonus. I consider total compensation. So I had to incur some extra effort to demonstrate that their offer was not reasonable which eventually they concurred. In these circumstances, I had opened my benefits schedule and my T4 (Canadian income tax schedule) 

I find your reasoning sound. I see no point in divulging your contract data to a party who has no yet committed to hire you or at least showed interest. Are you sure they are not a mickey mouse company ? 

When HR is trying to assess how much you are really worth without telling you they want to hire you I become and remain highly skeptical. Sounds to e they want to find out what competition is doing there.

Who am I to know ? I am not under the shackles of the private market (..yet)


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## dizzyizzy

londongirl82 said:


> See payslips are fine, but I wouldn't share my existing contract, I don't see anything that confidential in a payslip apart from my earnings.. But my contract,m that can land you in hot water.


Exactly,given the lack of brains and common sense around here I cn already see the contract being scanned and posted somewhere on the internees, lol. No no no.


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## dizzyizzy

Canuck_Sens said:


> Hello Dizzy,
> 
> I can share with you only my experience in the public sector. During my interview for my position here in the UAE, they asked how much I was making and how much I wanted in the interview.
> 
> They did not doubt and never asked for proof but rather they wanted a letter of employment stating that I was working there. In Canada, letters of employment are issued with the annual gross salary.
> 
> However, while I was negotiating, I reminded my future employers that Salary negotiations go beyond gross and bonus. I consider total compensation. So I had to incur some extra effort to demonstrate that their offer was not reasonable which eventually they concurred. In these circumstances, I had opened my benefits schedule and my T4 (Canadian income tax schedule)
> 
> I find your reasoning sound. I see no point in divulging your contract data to a party who has no yet committed to hire you or at least showed interest. Are you sure they are not a mickey mouse company ?
> 
> When HR is trying to assess how much you are really worth without telling you they want to hire you I become and remain highly skeptical. Sounds to e they want to find out what competition is doing there.
> 
> Who am I to know ? I am not under the shackles of the private market (..yet)


Thanks for the feedback. Not a Mickey Mouse company at all, rather big actually, 500 fortune list and blah blah which makes the whole thing even more absurd. I wonder if is just something their current HR manager came up with.


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## Canuck_Sens

Hmmmmm

Good luck there. I hope everything turns all right!!!! and once there don't forget me okkkkk ?:yo:


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## mehranR

TallyHo said:


> I wonder if you'd change your mind if you're ever made redundant....


Haha. I knew someone will bring it up. I am currently unemployed. Sold my business on Friday. Now packing and sending everything off to dubai. Next is to come and sign the job agreement. So besically I am unemployed.


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## TallyHo

Then why would you never hire someone who was unemployed?

I was made redundant from my first job. The entire division was assembled into a boardroom and kindly told by the MD and HR that due to restructuring following acquisition of another company, we were no longer needed. Nothing personal, we were also told 

It's a good thing the next person who hired me didn't think like you.



mehranR said:


> Haha. I knew someone will bring it up. I am currently unemployed. Sold my business on Friday. Now packing and sending everything off to dubai. Next is to come and sign the job agreement. So besically I am unemployed.


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## mehranR

TallyHo said:


> Then why would you never hire someone who was unemployed? I was made redundant from my first job. The entire division was assembled into a boardroom and kindly told by the MD and HR that due to restructuring following acquisition of another company, we were no longer needed. Nothing personal, we were also told  It's a good thing the next person who hired me didn't think like you.


There are good reasons for the way I think, but before we go any further we need to differentiate between those who NEED to work and those who WANT to work. 
If one NEEDS to work, they would find a job in a heart beat. They take a paycut until something better comes along or until they prove that they are the best at what they do and then get a raise.
If one only WANTS to work, they would keep waiting until something comes along. And sometimes they would be waiting for a long time. 

See, one works hard to get a job and one hardly works for it. To me it clearly shows work ethics. I have worked with genuine employees and I have also worked with clock watchers. In my office people loved to work and they took pride in what they did. The business was like a family business and not a corporation (talking only about dental corporation). It was about keeping people at ease, it was about making transactions easy. It was about serving people and keeping them happy. In short it was not about us, it was all about customers and we were there to serve them. A clock watcher would never survive what is required from them to work for me. 
Hope this clears my way of thinking for you.


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## arabianhorse

Excuse me while I throw up


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## mehranR

arabianhorse said:


> Excuse me while I throw up


Sorry if I offended you


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## arabianhorse

Your b/s was so hilarious, I was overcome by nausea from laughing too much dats all.


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## mehranR

arabianhorse said:


> Your b/s was so hilarious, I was overcome by nausea from laughing too much dats all.


Fair enough. I just talked about my point of view. It may sound BS to you, but to the patient that sits in my chair, he/she is treated different.
When you sit in a dental chair you wouldn't you want that appointment to go very smooth? If you have any fears you wouldn't you want to be able to overcome them. If you could not afford treatment, you would want us to find ways to make treatment affordable? If the insurance didn't pay for treatment, wouldn't you want to know that the office is ready to help with any sort of financial arrangement? If you were told that you need to remove 5 teeth, wouldn't you want to have to sit and talk to the doctor or the staff to put your fear at ease? Wouldn't you want to receive a call few hours and surgery? Wouldn't you want a call the next day to see how you were doing? Wouldn't you want people to bend over backwards to make your appointment as comfortable as possible?


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## TallyHo

Uh, ok.

What does it have to do with not hiring unemployed people? 

I DON'T WANT to work. I'd rather be lounging on a tropical beach. But I NEED to work to pay for the tropical holidays. And I'm pretty d*mn good at what I do as my position and compensation indicates. 

So how do I fit into your general scheme of things?

Look, I get what you're trying to say. You want to hire people who are passionate about their jobs and go the extra step. But what does it have to do with WANT versus NEED? Or what does it have to do with not hiring qualified but unemployed candidates? 

Your idea that people who are unemployed but seeking for jobs are somehow not passionate or qualified enough is ridiculous. People are made unemployed for all sorts of reasons as the recent recession has shown us. Are you going to penalise them? 



mehranR said:


> Fair enough. I just talked about my point of view. It may sound BS to you, but to the patient that sits in my chair, he/she is treated different.
> When you sit in a dental chair you wouldn't you want that appointment to go very smooth? If you have any fears you wouldn't you want to be able to overcome them. If you could not afford treatment, you would want us to find ways to make treatment affordable? If the insurance didn't pay for treatment, wouldn't you want to know that the office is ready to help with any sort of financial arrangement? If you were told that you need to remove 5 teeth, wouldn't you want to have to sit and talk to the doctor or the staff to put your fear at ease? Wouldn't you want to receive a call few hours and surgery? Wouldn't you want a call the next day to see how you were doing? Wouldn't you want people to bend over backwards to make your appointment as comfortable as possible?


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## BedouGirl

mehranR said:


> There are good reasons for the way I think, but before we go any further we need to differentiate between those who NEED to work and those who WANT to work. If one NEEDS to work, they would find a job in a heart beat. They take a paycut until something better comes along or until they prove that they are the best at what they do and then get a raise. If one only WANTS to work, they would keep waiting until something comes along. And sometimes they would be waiting for a long time. See, one works hard to get a job and one hardly works for it. To me it clearly shows work ethics. I have worked with genuine employees and I have also worked with clock watchers. In my office people loved to work and they took pride in what they did. The business was like a family business and not a corporation (talking only about dental corporation). It was about keeping people at ease, it was about making transactions easy. It was about serving people and keeping them happy. In short it was not about us, it was all about customers and we were there to serve them. A clock watcher would never survive what is required from them to work for me. Hope this clears my way of thinking for you.


You haven't lived here where people can't just change jobs at the drop of a hat, so - taking just anything until something better comes along - is not a viable option.


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## mehranR

BedouGirl said:


> You haven't lived here where people can't just change jobs at the drop of a hat, so - taking just anything until something better comes along - is not a viable option.


You are right. I am not in Dubai yet, so I don't know rules and regulations of ease of job change.


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## Peterf

TallyHo said:


> Uh, ok.
> 
> What does it have to do with not hiring unemployed people?
> 
> I DON'T WANT to work. I'd rather be lounging on a tropical beach. But I NEED to work to pay for the tropical holidays. And I'm pretty d*mn good at what I do as my position and compensation indicates.
> 
> So how do I fit into your general scheme of things?
> 
> Look, I get what you're trying to say. You want to hire people who are passionate about their jobs and go the extra step. But what does it have to do with WANT versus NEED? Or what does it have to do with not hiring qualified but unemployed candidates?
> 
> Your idea that people who are unemployed but seeking for jobs are somehow not passionate or qualified enough is ridiculous. People are made unemployed for all sorts of reasons as the recent recession has shown us. Are you going to penalise them?


We'd all love to be lounging on a tropical beach. With time management and discipline, many can. 

Congratulations on being well paid for what you do. As to whether you are good at it or not is between you and your employer. From my experience there are may here who are well paid and believe they are good at what they do, yet in the "real world" would be considered as useless as a chocolate teapot. Despite their espousing how big their package is (pun intended)

To my mind, you don't fit into a general scheme of things as you appear to have a job & don't appear to be looking.

Many years ago, (I was in my 20's) I was made redundant a number of times for reasons beyond my control. However, either because I was well known, well respected or because I did a good job, I was re-employed within days. Good people will find jobs, generally offered as soon as it is apparent they are becoming available. 
Many people are made redundant these days because its the easiest way for an employer to get rid of useless or under performing staff. Today's labour laws (Not in UAE) make it hard to deal with these types of people. Many of these are the "poor me" people, who believe the world owes them a job, and expect an employer to pay them handsomely while they clock-watch all day. 

I currently employ 14 staff in UAE, Kiwis, Aussies, Egyptians and Indians. None are clock-watchers and as far as I can tell, none of them are job-hunting either. If they are , I wish them well, because I am sure they won't get the same conditions or atmosphere that they do with me.
My customers are happy, because my guys turn up on time & do a good job. They don't sod-off because it's lunch-time, then disappear because no-one is watching them, they get the job done. The customer is happy, my guys are happy and I'm happy.

I get between 20 and 40 Cvs per day from people, many employed already in UAE, looking for "something else". They don't care what we do, they just want a job somewhere else because "the grass is greener". Based on this, it is my assertion that the "You haven't lived here where people can't just change jobs at the drop of a hat, so - taking just anything until something better comes along - is not a viable option." comment doesn't apply here either! Due to the "soft" labour laws here, skipping between Freezone company to a company in another Freezone company has no penalty.


If people aren't happy with what they are doing (by happy, I mean challenged and engaged), they might as will find another job. They're never going to be happy where they are and they're never going to make CEO, they're just going to be pi**ed off and bitter about their lot. They also won't be too happy to hear that their attitude wont be accepted my many employers.

The guts is, it's about attitude, not amplitude. Don't tell people how good you are, show them!! The harder you work, the luckier you'll get.

mehranR, I wish you well in your endeavours in UAE, possibly, like me, you will find it challenging, due to the higher percentage of fwits, however the rewards are here if you persevere and work hard. 

Sorry about the long post, but it really pi**es me off when some people "have a shot" at people who want to do something for themselves. & won't accept the "poor me'' syndrome.


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## 132467

I totally agree with your idea of people who want to work and are already working because they need to.

Except I don't believe you used the right words.

There are people who can't afford to search for a proper job that matches their capabilities and compensates them accordingly because - well put simply: they can't afford to.

There are better off people who spend a little bit of money and wait for the right job that compensates them well in relation to their capabilities(and treats them right) and that is not a bad thing (its definitely a bad thing for abusive employers)

In return, those people benefit a lot more than the small amount of money they spent in order to find a suitable job.

Finding the right job for yourself doesn't mean you want to work but don't need to. It's actually the smarter thing to do. It also helps you stay away from abusive employers who suck the life out of you and not shed a tear.

The reason it is hard to frequently change jobs in Dubai is because a large amount of employers are extremely abusive, don't compensate you well, and sometimes even take away your yearly payed leave rights, along with making you work on weekends, along with overtime not getting payed.

How will those type of employers benefit if everyone they hired scrammed and looked for other jobs?

You wanna leave?? you get banned, there's a lot of other people who want that job.

You manage to leave without getting banned? Good luck finding the right job, your previous employer didn't pay well during past 6 months and you're almost broke.


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## Canuck_Sens

Peterf said:


> From my experience there are may here who are well paid and believe they are good at what they do, yet in the "real world" would be considered as useless as a chocolate teapot. Despite their espousing how big their package is (pun intended)


Everything depends on circumstances and context. There are lots of qualified people out there, among those tons lack the traits needed (behaviour) to perform a job. Also, market dynamics will determine the need of an extra staff. Supply & Demand. Gloating about the package and apparently pay hike are not a good proxy for being good obviously. Not in a country where gross pay is considered high by others anyway. By the way people are deceived if they think they are better off. Most dont take into account the lack of welfare mechanisms that exists in other societies. Chances are you are underpaid . Folks are either worse off or equalized if they forget to compute this.



Peterf said:


> Many years ago, (I was in my 20's) I was made redundant a number of times for reasons beyond my control. However, either because I was well known, well respected or because I did a good job, I was re-employed within days. Good people will find jobs, generally offered as soon as it is apparent they are becoming available.


Back in a day, there was no soul here. Opportunities abounded. If you were in Canada 30 years ago you would get a job in a blink of an eye. According to my uncle there was a time that the Australian Embassy was chasing Canadians!!! I tend to disagree you on this. Perhaps personal traits and connections would have sufficed almost to everyone back then. Countries needed people like crazy.



Peterf said:


> Many people are made redundant these days because its the easiest way for an employer to get rid of useless or under performing staff. Today's labour laws (Not in UAE) make it hard to deal with these types of people. Many of these are the "poor me" people, who believe the world owes them a job, and expect an employer to pay them handsomely while they clock-watch all day.


You dont make someone redundant so that you can justify their dismissal. If you follow the market approach, you fire due to lack of performance or serious offense (breach of employer rules or regulations) or for cost effectiveness if the skill is available elsewhere. Have seen very good people being dismissed because of salaries differences. Why would I pay 200K USD for a Brit who comes from a more expensive country than an American provided they have the same experience? As an employer if I have pretty damn good people available out there, I will go for the cheapest one. However, if the guys has a unique set of skills I will swallow things that I would not normally accept.



Peterf said:


> I currently employ 14 staff in UAE, Kiwis, Aussies, Egyptians and Indians. None are clock-watchers and as far as I can tell, none of them are job-hunting either. If they are , I wish them well, because I am sure they won't get the same conditions or atmosphere that they do with me.


With you or amongst yourselves as a team ? sorry I like the way you market your place. I am just touching up my resume LOL



Peterf said:


> My customers are happy, because my guys turn up on time & do a good job. They don't sod-off because it's lunch-time, then disappear because no-one is watching them, they get the job done. The customer is happy, my guys are happy and I'm happy.


I thought that meeting the needs of all stakeholders especially the ones that pay the bills were the most basic thing required from employees. Getting the job done is a basic requirement like a duty. Am i wrong thinking like that ? sometimes I feel that here in the UAE people do have a different sense of things. If you are happy because your customers are happy is not enough really. It is just a start. It is not a competitive market if you think about it. The way customers are treated here is proof to that.



Peterf said:


> I get between 20 and 40 Cvs per day from people, many employed already in UAE, looking for "something else". They don't care what we do, they just want a job somewhere else because "the grass is greener". Based on this, it is my assertion that the "You haven't lived here where people can't just change jobs at the drop of a hat, so - taking just anything until something better comes along - is not a viable option." comment doesn't apply here either! Due to the "soft" labour laws here, skipping between Freezone company to a company in another Freezone company has no penalty.


I like the way you just gloated that people want to work for you. That's a great feeling is not it ? I like that gives a sense of accomplishment, but again what is wrong trying to work in a place where the grass is greener ? They guy maybe misled it can turn out to be something bad too right ? 



Peterf said:


> If people aren't happy with what they are doing (by happy, I mean challenged and engaged), they might as will find another job. They're never going to be happy where they are and they're never going to make CEO, they're just going to be pi**ed off and bitter about their lot. They also won't be too happy to hear that their attitude wont be accepted my many employers.


Being engaged and challenged are more linked towards motivation/ incentives. So people are wired in different ways. Some people dont like money some people prefer more holidays instead . Some people dont want to become a CEO but they dont want also the CEO going after them for advice. So I think that your assessment is a bit off here. 

and for the poor syndrome...in a society where there is productive workforce, the market must make use of the available resources to max output. So technically those who feel who can contribute (provide they can somehow) and deserve a job...actually do deserve if you think about it.


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## BedouGirl

@PeterF, if you work in or find employment in a free zone. I disagree that the labor laws here are soft. As an employer, your perspective is bound to be different to that of an employee. Kudos to you for employing what you consider to be a happy workforce.


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