# Buying appliances on credit in Mexico



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

sputnik said:


> Does anyone out there have an acct at Banco Azteca....??? I read last night that Carlos Slim has provided small loans through his bank to the 70% poor in Mexico. People who cannot get loans through the big banks. […]


At what interest rates? I have never dealt with Banco Azteca, but their retail outlets look like they specialize in selling stuff so that you will spend the money before you get out the door. How do you say "loan shark" in Spanish.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> At what interest rates? I have never dealt with Banco Azteca, but their retail outlets look like they specialize in selling stuff so that you will spend the money before you get out the door. How do you say "loan shark" in Spanish.


They label merchandise with the monthly payment rather than the retail price. Interest rates as high as 125%. Ouch.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

A widely held belief in Mexico I've heard and seen expressed is that Elektra preys on uneducated/unsophisticated consumers and has, since its inception from what I'm recalling, been either the most or second most complained about companies at PROFECO. To the best of my knowledge/memory, Banco Azteca is not one of the business enterprises owned or controlled by Carlos Slim. It's owned by the same family which owns Elektra and television network TV Azteca.

Read more:

Grupo Elektra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Grupo Salinas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> A widely held belief in Mexico I've heard and seen expressed is that Elektra preys on uneducated/unsophisticated consumers and has, since its inception from what I'm recalling, been either the most or second most complained about companies at PROFECO. To the best of my knowledge/memory, Banco Azteca is not one of the business enterprises owned or controlled by Carlos Slim. It's owned by the same family which owns Elektra and television network TV Azteca.]


If you actually knew any families outside of the formal economy back in the 90s you might understand what Coopel, Elektra, and Banco Azteca actually are and not use the term " prey" and "unsophisticated" so loosely.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> If you actually knew any families outside of the formal economy back in the 90s you might understand what Coopel, Elektra, and Banco Azteca actually are and not use the term " prey" and "unsophisticated" so loosely.


So what "actually" is Banco Azteca? I have never understood it. At first I thought it was a bank. The name gave me that idea. Then I saw that they sell appliances, motorcycles and other stuff and it left me confused.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> So what "actually" is Banco Azteca? I have never understood it. At first I thought it was a bank. The name gave me that idea. Then I saw that they sell appliances, motorcycles and other stuff and it left me confused.


It's the financing arm of Electra. They offer higher interest paying saving accounts to finance their funding of items for Electra who then charges very high interest rates. It's cheaper for them than borrowing at a real bank.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> It's the financing arm of Electra. They offer higher interest paying saving accounts to finance their funding of items for Electra who then charges very high interest rates. It's cheaper for them than borrowing at a real bank.


Thanks, that makes it clearer to me.

So, doesn't charging high interest rates on loans qualify as "preying" on "unsophisticated" customers.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> So what "actually" is Banco Azteca? I have never understood it. At first I thought it was a bank. The name gave me that idea. Then I saw that they sell appliances, motorcycles and other stuff and it left me confused.


"In addition, Banco Azteca opened 813 branches in Grupo Elektra stores, 8 branches and 96 independent modules International Channels Third Party[ money ? ]. "

http://www.bancoazteca.com.mx/PortalBancoAzteca/publica/conocenos/historia/nuestra.jsp 

We have a couple of Azteca department stores in El Centro. It is hard to say what they are up to. Getting a loan at high interest is the same there as at Banco Coopel, as is popular to instantly transfer electronically money anywhere to someone for a fee. I hear other department stores and OXXO are doing transfers now in some places. Many years ago it was Coopel and Elektra´s nitch.


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## sputnik (Jan 10, 2011)

ha ha...yes it is one of the biggest retail stores and people could not get loans to buy the stoves refrigerators and he started a bank for the people...i certainly dont know his heart but what i do know about him is that his bank and banorte are the only banks solely owned by mexicans....he has been pushing in the mexican congress to allow the silver libertad to be legal tender to protect the mexican people in the case of a dollar crash, but not sucessful yet...anyway, no i dont know what interest they charge...but thanks for your input...


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Thanks, that makes it clearer to me.
> 
> So, doesn't charging high interest rates on loans qualify as "preying" on "unsophisticated" customers.


Originally no! These customers would have to do without if Coopel and Elektra did not exist as they obviously had no credit in the conventional sense of the word. Many simply wanted a new refrigerator or stove etc. and it was the only way to get one. 

They were maginally economically out of any regualr credit system that existed, not unsophisticated. Some vendors did the same thing.

Preying is an unwarranted term if you put the insinuation that they had a choice or they were unsohisticated and uneducated and "let" these companies "prey" on them on purpose.

These companies provided a service at a stated cost. If you failed to pay the bi-monthly payment after a while they came to your house and picked up "their" stuff, no hard feelings, gave you many options and opportunities to pay something to keep it, and sold it at a discount to someone else. You need to prove where you lived.

Many people in this situation are usually proud of their new stuff and keep going back to get more new stuff. The faster you paid it off the less you paid of the 125% interest but did not get the best cash or credit card price out the door.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Without a doubt ... a core business practice is to prey on a certain type of consumer ... IMO. I think that anyone who's observed that company understands what goes on there. And, yes, some people seem to like being taken advantage of. They're not smart enough to understand or they think they have no other choice.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> Without a doubt ... a core business practice is to prey on a certain type of consumer ... IMO. I think that anyone who's observed that company understands what goes on there. And, yes, some people seem to like being taken advantage of. They're not smart enough to understand or they think they have no other choice.


Of course you are talking about the situation in Chicago again, no doubt.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Of course you are talking about the situation in Chicago again, no doubt.


Given your seemingly strong defense of Elektra and what many people describe as questionable business practices, do you have an undisclosed relationship with that organization? As for your frequent references to Chicago, which are like so many off-topic postings of yours ... my suggestion is that you visit the appropriate EF forum for that city and engage in conversations with others who share your interest.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Originally no! These customers would have to do without if Coopel and Elektra did not exist as they obviously had no credit in the conventional sense of the word. Many simply wanted a new refrigerator or stove etc. and *it was the only way to get one.* […]


How is paying two or three times the cost of something in interest charges "the only way to get it". Wouldn't it be better to put the money aside first and buy later. I know that is difficult for many, especially people living near the margin. But if they can find the money to make the payments, they would be better off to put it aside and skip the interest. To my mind, that is the definition of an unsophisticated consumer.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> How is paying two or three times the cost of something in interest charges "the only way to get it". Wouldn't it be better to put the money aside first and buy later. I know that is difficult for many, especially people living near the margin. But if they can find the money to make the payments, they would be better off to put it aside and skip the interest. To my mind, that is the definition of an unsophisticated consumer.


Saving money is almost impossible in that situation for many. Some do it obviuosly. Too much daily sacrifice I feel. No cigarettes or refrescos etc. Being forced to make a bi monthly payment for something you see and can touch makes the sacrifice doable. IMO 

I think the impulse to do something nice sometimes is buying something new for mom or dad when the need it or your married children after the wedding etc. If their equation didn´t work then there would not be one of these places in every pueblo and several in one área etc. and they would not be full of people every time I pass one.

Pop into one and see the contract price, the term length varies, I think it is the short term loan posted on the tag, and see it is not doublé the cash price.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Saving money is almost impossible in that situation for many. Some do it obviuosly. Too much daily sacrifice I feel. No cigarettes or refrescos etc. Being forced to make a bi monthly payment for something you see and can touch makes the sacrifice doable. IMO
> 
> I think the impulse to do something nice sometimes is buying something new for mom or dad when the need it or your married children after the wedding etc. If their equation didn´t work then there would not be one of these places in every pueblo and several in one área etc. and they would not be full of people every time I pass one.


I understand. That is human nature. Nevertheless, I think companies that take advantage of that aspect of human nature by charging outrageous interest rates are preying on people. Seems like a good place where some government regulation could improve the situation, but I don't know anything about financial regulations in Mexico. Payday lenders do the same thing in the US, prey on the poor that is.

I frequently loan money to the lady who cleans my house once a week. But I don't charge her usurious interest rates. In fact, I don't charge her any interest.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> I frequently loan money to the lady who cleans my house once a week. But I don't charge her usurious interest rates. In fact, I don't charge her any interest.


That reminds me about my old banker who was talking to me about no interest loans. I asked how much can I borrow, and he replied that he had no interest in lending me money. How sad.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> Saving money is almost impossible in that situation for many. Some do it obviuosly. Too much daily sacrifice I feel. No cigarettes or refrescos etc. Being forced to make a bi monthly payment for something you see and can touch makes the sacrifice doable. IMO


The inability to make some small sacrifices to be able to save up money to buy something for cash, saving even more money in the end, could be why so many of the poor in Mexico (and elsewhere in the world) stay poor. What a shame!


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> The inability to make some small sacrifices to be able to save up money to buy something for cash, saving even more money in the end, could be why so many of the poor in Mexico (and elsewhere in the world) stay poor. What a shame!


For those who don't have the ability or family history of saving, these stores become a part of forced saving. Lots of these in the US and there not poor.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> For those who don't have the ability or family history of saving, these stores become a part of forced saving. Lots of these in the US and there not poor.


You don't have to be poor to have unintelligent spending habits. Think of people who live on maxed-out credit cards!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> You don't have to be poor to have unintelligent spending habits. Think of people who live on maxed-out credit cards!


True, that doesn't make sense either, even though many do it. But credit cards carry interest rates 10 or 20%/year, while payday lenders and, apparently, Banco Azteca charge rates of 100-200%/year and prey on people who can't get credit cards.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> True, that doesn't make sense either, even though many do it. But credit cards carry interest rates 10 or 20%/year, while payday lenders and, apparently, Banco Azteca charge rates of 100-200%/year and prey on people who can't get credit cards.


Agreed. It's a deplorable situation. The government should regulate shyster businesses like Banco Azteca and limit how much annual interest they can charge their clients. Too bad there are no usury laws in Mexico.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> For those who don't have the ability or family history of saving, these stores become a part of forced saving. Lots of these in the US and there not poor.


I don't 'get' the "part of forced savings" comment of yours. There's nothing about "saving" involved. I'd like to know of a comparable retail situation: Elektra - Banco Azteca - relationship/pricing in the USA. I don't think there is. 'Lay away' purchasing still takes place in the USA but there's no add-on cost to buy on time that way; not that I'm aware of. Payday and vehicle title loan offices are still in business and charge high rates of interest, but I dont' think the rates of interest are comparable due to some limited government regulation.

I don't doubt that many of the Elektra customers are impulse buyers who are lured by misleading advertising (it's almost impossible to determine what the actual cost of merchandise is, from what I've observed in those stores) and who either buy merchandise they don't really need or wouldn't otherwise buy if they understood how they were about to be gouged. The poor and the unsophisticated/uneducated consumer in the USA will be the ones you find in any store remotely resembling Elektra, IMO.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Longford said:


> I don't 'get' the "part of forced savings" comment of yours. There's nothing about "saving" involved.


Rather than saving up for the purchase, which some people haven't grasped, they buy it on credit. In paying it off over time, it is somewhat like saving for the item. Of course, they would have to posses a moral obligation to repay the creditor.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Many yeas ago, We saw our first Elektra store and stopped in to enquire about a TV set, as we needed one. We did notice that none of the price tags actually indicated a cash price; just bi-weekly payment prices. So, we asked for a cash price quotation and soon found that they were not at all interested in selling us a TV set. Lots of obfuscation and never a price given. That was our first and last visit to Elektra, as we soon discovered their game.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> True, that doesn't make sense either, even though many do it. But credit cards carry interest rates 10 or 20%/year, while payday lenders and, apparently, Banco Azteca charge rates of 100-200%/year and prey on people who can't get credit cards.


It is 38 to 40% a year interest. as far as I can caculate it. [I might have missed something] Click on any refrigerator to get the payment plans.

Where did the 125% interest come from when purchasing a refrigerator on a weekly payment plan?

Credit cards are another topic, but I advise people do some research on the interest rates first.

Refrigeradores-Linea Blanca-Congelador Superior

To Longford:

Almost impossible to figure out the price? 

Almost no one can callculate a weekly payment for 65 to 102 weeks listed and clearly stated on their website and on the large stickers on the stuff and figure out their credit plan and the cost of the appliance? O really!

Is this in the 90s again? The last time you were in an Elektra shopping was ... ?

Coppel, not Coopel.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Agreed. It's a deplorable situation. The government should regulate shyster businesses like Banco Azteca and limit how much annual interest they can charge their clients. Too bad there are no usury laws in Mexico.


Isla, the gov´t. Secretaria that regulates credit is SHCP.


Secretaría de Hacienda y Crédito Público

They may not regulate interest rates but the gov´t. does have disclosure laws.

"Mission 

The Ministry of Finance's mission is to propose, manage and control the economic policy of the Federal Government on financial matters, taxation, spending, income and debt, in order to consolidate a country with quality economic growth, equitable , inclusive and sustained, to strengthen the welfare of all Mexicans."


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> Isla, the gov´t. Secretaria that regulates credit is SHCP.
> 
> 
> Secretaría de Hacienda y Crédito Público
> ...


Reading this site appears to be only "public" credit, not personal credit so I will get back to you when I find the regulations required for creditors. I doubt it will regulate interest rates but will probably have disclosure laws.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> Rather than saving up for the purchase, which some people haven't grasped, they buy it on credit. In paying it off over time, it is somewhat like saving for the item. Of course, they would have to posses a moral obligation to repay the creditor.


Coppel seems to be a better deal than Elektra and 1 year credit is available for, as I calculated it, 28% interest per year and they deliver your stuff for free and you pay every 2 weeks. 

Their wedsite is clear and you can check store availabilty before you leave home and know what the price is. 

I guess Lonford hasn´t been around in Mexico for 20 years now.  Things have changed here and he would have to figure that out when he comes back here.

The have the large stickers with the cash or credit card price and the 1 year credit price with the biweekly payments right on the appliances etc..Vvery simple and straight forwad so that the most unsophisticated, uneducated, shopper could easily understand what the price is.

Refrigeradores | Coppel


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

You mean there ARE usury laws in the U.S.A. these days?
Nope. Credit card interest is over the moon, as are many other forms of credit.

Back on topic: When we first decided to move to Mexico, we followed the advice in one of the better "moving to Mexico books" and opened a bank account with what ended up as Banamex USA. After moving, we opened one in Mexican Banamex. We went through the process of getting our accounts "linked". Had our pension checks deposited in the U.S. account and used the fee free Mexican Banamex machines to get pesos. We could transfer funds as needed from the U.S. acct electronically. Easy Peasy.

Sometime last year, all that changed. No more electronic transfers. Now, we have to call the U.S. 800 number; struggle to understand the heavily accented English representative; give him or her lots of identifying information. Then, the transfer is not actually made until they have called me back on the same telephone line an hour or so later. It's getting nuts. They cite "new banking regulations". 
Is anyone having this kind of experience with other "linked" bank accounts?


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

lagoloo said:


> You mean there ARE usury laws in the U.S.A. these days?
> Nope. Credit card interest is over the moon, as are many other forms of credit.


Yes, there are usury laws and you are responsible for them as you elected legislatures who answered the call from banks to up the interest cap.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Whether "you" voted for those who did that or not, we all know what the banking interests have created for the citizenry.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Agreed. It's a deplorable situation. The government should regulate shyster businesses like Banco Azteca and limit how much annual interest they can charge their clients. Too bad there are no usury laws in Mexico.


15 nuevas reglas a tarjetas de crédito



http://www.condusef.gob.mx/index.php/instituciones-financieras/bancos/tarjeta-de-credito


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

As usual AM disagrees with everyone else and seems to know things that we dummies do not. Elektra would not last one week NOB with their business practices It is easy for us to not understand that Mexicans with very low incomes do not understand credit. Even middle class Mexicans do not understand the concept of paying for something via regular payments. There are no life classes in high school. Even Infonavit has to foreclose on homes regularly. Elektra jacks up the retail price of the items. Charges outrageous interest and if you miss a payment they make NOB CC companies look like angels. In fairness to their customers it is difficult to live within your means when you see all those fancy appliances and electronics in the store and you go home to an old 20 inch tube TV with rabbit ears. The customer does not calculate interest rates or the final price. Nor do they consider that it is next to impossible to keep making the payments. Non payment is one of the reasons that the interest rates are so high. And the cycle continues.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Everyone, let's keep Forum Rule #1 in mind: "Please treat others here the way you wish to be treated, with respect, and without insult or personal attack", even when comments they make may rankle you! Thanks.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> As usual AM disagrees with everyone else and seems to know things that we dummies do not. Elektra would not last one week NOB with their business practices It is easy for us to not understand that Mexicans with very low incomes do not understand credit. Even middle class Mexicans do not understand the concept of paying for something via regular payments. There are no life classes in high school. Even Infonavit has to foreclose on homes regularly. Elektra jacks up the retail price of the items. Charges outrageous interest and if you miss a payment they make NOB CC companies look like angels. In fairness to their customers it is difficult to live within your means when you see all those fancy appliances and electronics in the store and you go home to an old 20 inch tube TV with rabbit ears. The customer does not calculate interest rates or the final price. Nor do they consider that it is next to impossible to keep making the payments. Non payment is one of the reasons that the interest rates are so high. And the cycle continues.


Mexicans with very low income do not understand credit and even middle class Mexicans do not understand the concept of paying for something via regular payments, yet middle class Mexicans have newer cars bought on credit and have an education to support a lifestyle that is middle class. Where do you get this stuff from? 

Elektra jacks up the retail price on everything. No they don´t. They compete for sales just like everyone else.


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## michmex (Jul 15, 2012)

Bobbyb said:


> As usual AM disagrees with everyone else and seems to know things that we dummies do not. Elektra would not last one week NOB with their business practices It is easy for us to not understand that Mexicans with very low incomes do not understand credit. Even middle class Mexicans do not understand the concept of paying for something via regular payments. There are no life classes in high school. Even Infonavit has to foreclose on homes regularly. Elektra jacks up the retail price of the items. Charges outrageous interest and if you miss a payment they make NOB CC companies look like angels. In fairness to their customers it is difficult to live within your means when you see all those fancy appliances and electronics in the store and you go home to an old 20 inch tube TV with rabbit ears. The customer does not calculate interest rates or the final price. Nor do they consider that it is next to impossible to keep making the payments. Non payment is one of the reasons that the interest rates are so high. And the cycle continues.



"Elektra would not last one week NOB with their business practices" Yes, they would, but the name would be changed slightly to Elektra Rent/Lease to Own!

It would also appear that many lower income individuals as well as middle class families in the USA and Canada do not understand credit practices or perhaps, just maybe, that circumstance shave guided (forced )them into utilizing alternative means of obtaining furniture or electronics. 

Here are two Elektra-like retail businesses operating in the USA and Canada.

Aaron's from their corporate website,
"There are two operating divisions of Aaron’s: sales and lease ownership and manufacturing. The Aaron's Sales & Lease Ownership division is the largest and fastest growing division, serving credit-constrained consumers in need of basic home furnishings, appliances and electronics. Customers range from white-collar professionals and blue-collar workers to young couples and retirees. At September 30, 2012, the Company had 1,190 Company-operated Aaron's Sales and Lease 

Ownership stores, 717 Aaron's Sales & Lease Ownership franchised stores, 78 HomeSmart stores, one franchised HomeSmart store, 17 Company-operated RIMCO stores, and six franchised RIMCO stores. The total number of stores open at the end of September 2012 was 2,009."

I priced out a $449.99 Recliner at $54.98 for 12 months (not including taxes) for a total of $659.76. Cost of leasing for 12 months is $209.77 or 46.6% simple annual interest.

Another big player is RAC (Rent-A-Center) with over 3000 stores in the USA and Canada. These businesses get around usury laws and consumer finance regulations by not providing financing as they are in the rental or leasing business. The USA companies utilize different business model than Elektra but all are based upon the same concept of providing a way for credit challenged customers to obtain furniture and electronics.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

michmex said:


> "Elektra would not last one week NOB with their business practices" Yes, they would, but the name would be changed slightly to Elektra Rent/Lease to Own!
> 
> It would also appear that many lower income individuals as well as middle class families in the USA and Canada do not understand credit practices or perhaps, just maybe, that circumstance shave guided (forced )them into utilizing alternative means of obtaining furniture or electronics.
> 
> ...


Finally someone who understands, that does not fall into the trap of assuming they know stuff about Mexico, but actually does understand "alternative" buying here in Mexico without putting it down to ignorance and inferior schooling. 

Also "It could never happen NOB" ... we are too educated and smart to "fall" for that up there but down here .... ?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

The poor and those without adequate education pay thru the nose all their lives, it never gets better and they do not understand what is happening to them. Sad. I think it is worse where the government doesn't at least make some attempt to help them with regulations.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Regarding Elektra, a friend of my son got a job in That company some five years ago. He is a mathematician and got paid x amount of pesos, but when he received his first salary he discovered that although he received what he should have, in his pocket, his social security showed him to be earning a fair amount less and consequently if he had worked for them for the following forty years or so, his social security pension would have been miserable. Lucky lad, he moved on. The unfortunate thing is that those that can move on are fine and those that can't are too afraid of losing their jobs to speak out.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Or, they don't have enough education to know what is happening to them.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> Or, they don't have enough education to know what is happening to them.


Why don't you help them out? Poor people


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> Why don't you help them out? Poor people


How do you propose we do that, Gary?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> How do you propose we do that, Gary?


I would not know, but maybe Coondawg does, as he says Mexicans, ok, poor Mexicans do not have enough education to know what is happening to them, I assume he does get a clearer picture then.
When someone thinks that way, I feel they are patronizing, or they don't know what they are talking about, and if they do know, why don't they do something about it instead of just criticize ?

There is a saying: people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

An earlier comment of mine, up-thread at Comment #3, generated reactions which have continued:



> A widely held belief in Mexico I've heard and seen expressed is that Elektra preys on uneducated/unsophisticated consumers ...


While _uneducated/unsophisticated consumers _are found the world-over, to one degree or another ... this discussion has focused on Elektra stores and suggestions that the company may be employing a a strategy to prey upon a certain category of consumers in Mexico. I believe Elektra does prey on the uneducated/unsophisticated consumers in Mexico; there have been opinions to the contrary. Clearly, all viewpoints are being expressed about that company and also generally about the method of sales/credit some other companies promote.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

I am awaiting a response from you know who?? The practice of showing less income for IMSS is quite common in Mexico. But usually it is a small employer. For Elektra to do this horrible. I am not a leftie but workers in Mexico are treated unfairly. There are plenty of laws that should protect workers but they are not enforced . Many restaurants do not deduct IMSS nor remit. They pay cash. Some of these same restaurants take 50% of the tips! Some employers have the worker sign a contract for 6 months. They do deduct IMSS but they can be laid off at any time in that 6 months without any recourse. No tenure. Of course a month later they are rehired. Farm workers in our area are mostly from Oaxaca where the minimum wage is very low and there is a lot of unemployment. Some of the farms treat the workers fairly and they can make a decent wage. Others are just like you see in the movies about the Mexican farm workers in Calif. in the 50's! Low wages, high rent for a dumpy apt., no IMSS and they pay the employer for a shuttle that goes to town to buy food or withdraw their meager salary from the bank ( they are paid via debit card as the farms were being robbed on pay day). Shamefull


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> I would not know, but maybe Coondawg does, as he says Mexicans, ok, poor Mexicans do not have enough education to know what is happening to them, I assume he does get a clearer picture then.
> When someone thinks that way, I feel they are patronizing, or they don't know what they are talking about, and if they do know, why don't they do something about it instead of just criticize ?
> 
> There is a saying: people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones


I think you are taking this all wrong. Coondawg said "The poor and those without adequate education pay thru the nose all their lives..." etc. 

I think that was a statement about the poor in general, not Mexicans specifically. And it's true, the poor do suffer for lack of education about economics and personal finance. And more so they suffer due to circumstances where they are forced to purchase necessities on credit for sometimes outrageous interest rates. I can say this confidently from my own experience in poverty in times in my life, and from the feedback from my father who is a missionary throughout Central America and Haiti. This isn't a Mexico problem, it's a world-wide problem. 

And no, I do not have a solution that can fix the problem for the entire world. Certainly programs could be put into place by governments to prevent people being taken advantage of. And I believe some countries have done that. And maybe more economics classes in school might help. At least help those who go to school... And I'm not sure what else. I'm honestly not educated enough myself to take on this type of world issue. I struggle with my own finances for the same reason.

I'm not patronizing, I don't think Coondawg meant to either.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> I would not know, but maybe Coondawg does, as he says Mexicans, ok, poor Mexicans do not have enough education to know what is happening to them, I assume he does get a clearer picture then.
> When someone thinks that way, I feel they are patronizing, or they don't know what they are talking about, and if they do know, why don't they do something about it instead of just criticize ?
> 
> There is a saying: people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones


Hi Gary ! I think you are confusing my posts with someone else. I did not say ""Mexicans" , nor "poor Mexicans" in my posts in this thread. I was talking about poor people and those poorly educated people who throughout their lifetime are stuck in paying more for things than the affluent and well educated people, who have the means and understanding to avoid the pitfalls of abusive credit. Please try to not read anything into my posts that are not there, and I will show you the same respect.I do know what I am talking about here, as I married into a Mexican family with 14 children (my wife is the oldest) and you can imagine how many nieces and nephews, and I have seem first hand what has happened with the mother, father, and the other 13 siblings (all have different education and much different financial conditions. That family knowledge is what I base my posts on. I don't see where I am criticising here, certainly not my intent, maybe another "misread" on your part? I am doing all I can to help those family members, but "tradition" and being a "foreigner" are difficult to overcome. Ex: I bought new Platinum spark plugs(expensive) for father-in-laws car, put them in, and told him he never needed to change them, they would last the life of his car. 6 months later, I find out that he went in the shop to get a new belt for the car, and they told him he needed an "afination", so he changed the spark plugs.  Same happened with an oil and filter change I did for wife's brother.  I'm trying, but there is a lot of history to overcome, and I am an "extranjero". Same works with doctors, etc. So "my glass house" is pretty transparent, and that is not a problem for me, Gary. Have a nice day. 
P.S. I almost forgot, many times I have paid for an item for a family member and allowed them to pay me back "as they can" so that they do not pay double and triple the cost of the item with credit. (My wife sees that they pay back, and there are 2 or 3 that she will not let me do this for, ever)---past history).


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Bobbyb said:


> Some of the farms treat the workers fairly and they can make a decent wage. Others are just like you see in the movies about the Mexican farm workers in Calif. in the 50's! Low wages, high rent for a dumpy apt., no IMSS and they pay the employer for a shuttle that goes to town to buy food or withdraw their meager salary from the bank ( they are paid via debit card as the farms were being robbed on pay day). Shamefull












Interesting that you would reference Mexicans who worked as migrant farmworkers in California. I was reading an article on the way to work today about the premier of the new movie about Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers (Shocking Many Americans, Most Mexicans Have No Clue Who Cesar Chavez Is).

My very first introduction to Mexico and Mexicans in the United States was when I quit my job and volunteered full-time for the United Farm Workers in the late-1960s. I had the opportunity to work with Cesar Chavez and many others in the UFW. I spent relatively little time in the fields organizing for those 3.5 years, but, rather, I was dispatched to, with others including some of the migrant workers from Mexico, explain the struggle of the migrant workers and to organize the grape and lettuce boycott campaigns across the USA (Chicago and Detroit) and in Canada (Toronto and Montreal).

Many of the large corporate farm owners in the USA now have extensive operations in Mexico as the big farms dominate the marketplace, outside of the local market centers. I visited many of the migrant labor camps in California and spent a lot of time with the braceros/farm workers and their families. I worked for the UFW in Canada and saw the same deplorable conditions in Ontario. I have not visited the large agricultural operations in Mexico.

Though not all that wonderful, there are more and better protections afforded migrant workers in the USA today than protect farm workers in Mexico ... as I understand the situation. Progress is slow - in most countries. 

It's unlikely, though ... that many of the agricultural workers in Mexico would even qualify for Elektra merchandise credit. Probably not qualified, economically, for credit in any store. 

A couple of weeks from now I will celebrate 45-years of travel in Mexico. It's been a long, interesting and rewarding journey.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

A couple of weeks from now I will celebrate 45-years of travel in Mexico. It's been a long, interesting and rewarding journey.
Wow ! What a journey! Congratulations, Longford !!!


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

emilybcruz said:


> I think you are taking this all wrong. Coondawg said "The poor and those without adequate education pay thru the nose all their lives..." etc.
> 
> I think that was a statement about the poor in general, not Mexicans specifically. And it's true, the poor do suffer for lack of education about economics and personal finance. And more so they suffer due to circumstances where they are forced to purchase necessities on credit for sometimes outrageous interest rates. I can say this confidently from my own experience in poverty in times in my life, and from the feedback from my father who is a missionary throughout Central America and Haiti. This isn't a Mexico problem, it's a world-wide problem.
> 
> ...


i know what Coondawg wrote, but this is the Mexico forum isn't it? And when someone states something like that, in my opinion, as they recognize the problem, they may start looking for ways to fix it, otherwise, it's just talking.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> i know what Coondawg wrote, but this is the Mexico forum isn't it? And when someone states something like that, in my opinion, as they recognize the problem, they may start looking for ways to fix it, otherwise, it's just talking.


Nothng wrong with "just talking", Gary. After all, this is an online forum for discussing ideas, not necessarily for solving problems related to them.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> i know what Coondawg wrote, but this is the Mexico forum isn't it? And when someone states something like that, in my opinion, as they recognize the problem, they may start looking for ways to fix it, otherwise, it's just talking.


Gary, you are entitled to your opinion. But you wrong this time.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Gary, you are entitled to your opinion. But you wrong this time.


You can disagree with someone's opinion, but to say it is "wrong" makes no sense, since opinions are subjective and thus can't be proven to be wrong or right.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Sorry, Gary, you are entitled to your opinion.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> Gary, you are entitled to your opinion. But you wrong this time.


If I am entitled to my opinion, I am never wrong


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Longford: I envy your experiences. Did you meet Woody and Pete?


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> i know what Coondawg wrote, but this is the Mexico forum isn't it? And when someone states something like that, in my opinion, as they recognize the problem, they may start looking for ways to fix it, otherwise, it's just talking.


You mean to tell me you have never observed a problem in the world and commented on it without having the solution for the problem? That's impressive.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Bobbyb said:


> Longford: I envy your experiences. Did you meet Woody and Pete?


No. But Joan Baez ... yes.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> No. But Joan Baez ... yes.


Lucky you. I never met her, but I did see her perform in the early 1970s at the UW-Madison. What a lovely woman she was and still is.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> Lucky you. I never met her, but I did see her perform in the early 1970s at the UW-Madison. What a lovely woman she was and still is.


The UFW had its 'base camp', headquarters at Delano, CA. They called it "Forty Acres" (because someone donated 40-acres of land for the farmworkers to use). I was there, eating in the mess hall when Joan Baez ... standing next to me in line waiting for some food ... dropped a bowl of menudo. The choice for lunch was menudo or fish head salad (there were many Filipino farmworkers at that time). I cleaned-up the mess. For my efforts ... she brought me up to the front row seats at an impromptu small-scale performance she put-on for the striking farmworkers. I later organized a rally for Chavez in Chicago and she was the featured performer. While I remember her, and her wonderful voice and commitment to social justice causes ... I doubt she'd remember meeting me more than 40 years ago.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> The UFW had its 'base camp', headquarters at Delano, CA. They called it "Forty Acres" (because someone donated 40-acres of land for the farmworkers to use). I was there, eating in the mess hall when Joan Baez ... standing next to me in line waiting for some food ... dropped a bowl of menudo. The choice for lunch was menudo or fish head salad (there were many Filipino farmworkers at that time). I cleaned-up the mess. For my efforts ... she brought me up to the front row seats at an impromptu small-scale performance she put-on for the striking farmworkers. I later organized a rally for Chavez in Chicago and she was the featured performer. While I remember her, and her wonderful voice and commitment to social justice causes ... I doubt she'd remember meeting me more than 40 years ago.


As much as I'm enjoying this trip down memory land, it's time to remind everyone, :focus: .


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Longford said:


> The UFW had its 'base camp', headquarters at Delano, CA. They called it "Forty Acres" (because someone donated 40-acres of land for the farmworkers to use). I was there, eating in the mess hall when Joan Baez ... standing next to me in line waiting for some food ... dropped a bowl of menudo. The choice for lunch was menudo or fish head salad (there were many Filipino farmworkers at that time). I cleaned-up the mess. For my efforts ... she brought me up to the front row seats at an impromptu small-scale performance she put-on for the striking farmworkers. I later organized a rally for Chavez in Chicago and she was the featured performer. While I remember her, and her wonderful voice and commitment to social justice causes ... I doubt she'd remember meeting me more than 40 years ago.


In 1964, I drove over to Birmingham from Tuscaloosa to pick up Joan Baez at the Birmingham airport and drive her back to Tuscaloosa for a racial justice rally near the University of Alabama campus and these were truly dangerous times in Alabama. WhiLe, as an Alabama boy, I was sticking my neck out big time in the name of racial justice, I doubt very seriously bhat Joan Baez would remember me from Adam´s housecat.

The notion of the "forty Acres" legend you cite is unfortunate. The 40 Acres example came from the old "Forty acres and a mule" " notion put forth among abolitionists opposing slavery who proposed that freed African slaves would be granted 40 acres and a mule to cultivate land in the South expropriated from plantation owners much as was the redstribution of hacienda lands in Mexico among former slaves here. These are classic wealth (land) redistribution schemes meant to redisribute wealth but all, in all instances, were doomed to failure by corruption wherever tried with some anomolous successes.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> In 1964, I drove over to Birmingham from Tuscaloosa to pick up Joan Baez at the Birmingham airport and drive her back to Tuscaloosa for a racial justice rally near the University of Alabama campus and these were truly dangerous times in Alabama. WhiLe, as an Alabama boy, I was sticking my neck out big time in the name of racial justice, I doubt very seriously bhat Joan Baez would remember me from Adam´s housecat.
> 
> The notion of the "forty Acres" legend you cite is unfortunate. The 40 Acres example came from the old "Forty acres and a mule" " notion put forth among abolitionists opposing slavery who proposed that freed African slaves would be granted 40 acres and a mule to cultivate land in the South exproprated from plantation owners much as was the redstribution of hacienda lands in Mexico among former slaves here. These are classic wealth (land) redistribution schemes meant to redisribute wealth but all, in all instances, were doomed to failure by corruption wherever tried with some anomolous successes.


And I repeat, :focus:!! I could start a Memories of Joan Baez thread on the Chatarrería, if you like.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

I stopped into one of the two Banco Azteca department stores one block apart in downtown today to check it out. The bank is at the back of the store. It is all new stuff. The stuff has a cash price called "Supercash" [ literally in English ] on the large tags which is about the same price marked as local competiton prices. They have on the large price tag the credit payments per week "Desde $ 101.00 semanales" for example on a refridgerator. Easy to figure out and straight forward. The payment per week X the number of weeks = cost of the stuff. Grade 5 mathematics.

Also on the large tags it states [paraphrased] "If you are here you can get credit today, easily and affordable to fit your budget. You can get immediate free home delivery within 5 kilomters."


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

My thoughts are cash for everything in Mexico. I have noticed that even Sams and Costco charge more with a card either cr. or atm. So I work on cash and carry.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> Easy to figure out and straight forward. The payment per week X the number of weeks = cost of the stuff. Grade 5 mathematics.
> 
> Also on the large tags it states [paraphrased] "If you are here you can get credit today, easily and affordable to fit your budget. You can get immediate free home delivery within 5 kilomters."


IMO. I guess that a lot who buy from them could not do your 5th grade math without help and I just doubt many have a "budget" to fit. But, if I was poor I figure they could make me feel like I could "easily" afford it from them.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

coondawg said:


> IMO. I guess that a lot who buy from them could not do your 5th grade math without help and I just doubt many have a "budget" to fit. But, if I was poor I figure they could make me feel like I could "easily" afford it from them.


I would suspect for many people who opt for the $100 peso per week payment plan, it is not a matter of not being able to do the math, nor is it because they must have the latest in consumer goods and are unwilling to delay gratification to save up and pay the cash price (which I've seen plenty of NOB where consumerism has become a way of life), but because the weekly payment may be the best of their not very good options. 

I'm sure there are as many variables as people opting for these plans, but let's not presume they are ignorant and unable to do the math. Just say for instance that a family's 25 yr old refrigerator, which perhaps has already been repaired a few times, suddenly gives up the ghost. What are they to do? Go without a refri for the next several months while saving up for the lower cash price, risking food poisoning and food wastage, which also has a cost? I agree that the true cost of these weekly payment options is unconscionably high, but it might be better than the neighbourhood prestamista's rates. 

So if I know I need that fridge, I may decide I'll walk an hour to and from my job, rather than take the combi/pesero (only $7 pesos each way, but x 6 days/week that's $84 pesos per week, almost enough to make up that $100/wk payment). So the family eats meat even less frequently than normal, and manages to come up with those 100 pesos and they don't have to do without a fridge for the next year. 

In my experience many people living in poverty can "do the math", in fact they are constantly doing the math and making hard choices about trading this off for that. Their choices may not appear wise to those of us with more options, but they may actually be the most logical given their circumstances. 

I'm not romanticizing those who live in poverty - plenty do make unwise decisions, just as those who are wealthier do. However, poverty leaves people with a lot less "wiggle room" regarding the consequences of those choices. 

I am also sure there are plenty of folks who do simply "want it now" and just ignore the true cost. If they were interested in doing the math, they could. I also agree with those who suggest legislation requiring businesses to state clearly what the total cost of the weekly payment plan will end up being, but I'm really not convinced it's that much different NOB. Those who "want it now" are likely not going to have the price differential deter them, and those who need it now often have few other options.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Government should do what? Intervene in business to help poor and undereducated people from Mexico?
US Has the largest debt in the world, why do they not start from there?

Credit and debt are optionals, not mandatory, if people want to buy with credit, there is nothing anyone could do


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> US Has the largest debt in the world, why do they not start from there?


IMHO, Gary, this belongs in the US thread, not here. I did not understand her comments as picking on Mexicans. Relax.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> IMHO, Gary, this belongs in the US thread, not here. I did not understand her comments as picking on Mexicans. Relax.


I could not be more relaxed, thank you!
I did not think of that as picking on Mexicans, just a comment, mine too


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> Government should do what? Intervene in business to help poor and undereducated people from Mexico?
> US Has the largest debt in the world, why do they not start from there?
> 
> Credit and debt are optionals, not mandatory, if people want to buy with credit, there is nothing anyone could do


Hi, Gary
We're on the same page here. Did you read my entire post? I was DISAGREEING with those implying poor Mexicans are too uneducated to do the math. 

I also stated that I don't think the lack of signage clearly stating the cost differential of buying on a payment plan vs cash is much different NOB. I think the transparency this kind of signage brings would be a good idea anywhere in the world, north south east west. However, I don't think it is going to change most people's behavior to a large degree, and the stores will still sell their products and make their profits, so I don't think this extra information would represent a threat to business. 

It's kind of like fast food restaurants now being required to post the calorie counts of their food (NOB). We all have always known those burgers, fries and shakes come loaded with calories - with the calorie count posted people still order them, but now they come with an extra side order of guilt! 😊


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

This is a preemptive post before I get jumped on for suggesting legislation (anywhere in the world) which I'm stating is unlikely to change the behaviour of the majority of people. 

I think that this type of clear signage (whether true cost of borrowing or calorie counts of food on the menu) can bring about incremental changes in society, and over the course of several years these incremental changes add up. 

I also think that if businesses proactively were more upfront about the concerns raised by some posters on this thread, it could actually be in their favour. Some posters indicate they would not shop at Elektra because of what they view as predatory lending policies. Others say Elektra is providing a needed service to those who live payday to payday. I think there is some truth in both these positions, and while I think it would be great if their interest rates were lower, I recognize that businesses generally are not focused on social justice as part of their business plan. 

However if I, as a consumer, saw 2 businesses with similar pricing and similar weekly payment plans, but one of them clearly stated what the true cost of borrowing is on those weekly payment plans, I would be more likely to buy from that store because I would perceive them to be more honest and ethical (whether that would be a true perception or not I can't say, but it would likely influence where I buy).


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Elektra interest is about 38 to 40% per year as far as I can calculate it. The contracts have the total cost of the plan they chose if they pay on time and the cost if they are late on payments. It is explained by the credit people. Where is the fraud/preditory practise here?

Their policies include giving credit to people who are in the high risk group, not is the low risk group as you seem to think is the case. They have to get money back when these people renege on payments by sending a truck to pick up their stuff if they can find it, and sell it used at a discount. This might happen more than you may think. This causes their profit margine to go down. This is the reason the people who do pay are subsidizing the profit margine and it is claearly seen by all to be 38 to 40 % otherwise their system and service would no longer be needed or wanted.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> Elektra interest is about 38 to 40% per year as far as I can calculate it. and it is claearly seen by all to be 38 to 40 % otherwise their system and service would no longer be needed or wanted.


IMO, that is not clear to all. Wife and I took 2 nieces to Electra and looked at a refri and a lavadora. The prices and payments were listed on them. When the girls were asked various questions, they could not answer any of them about cost, how to find total cost, interest, etc. These girls are in grade 8 and grade 10 in the public schools of Leon, Gto. They have no education on consumer buying, etc. One suggested their dad should buy their mom the lavadora, as the weekly payment was low and he brings home almost 600 pesos a week. Certainly he could buy it.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> IMO, that is not clear to all. Wife and I took 2 nieces to Electra and looked at a refri and a lavadora. The prices and payments were listed on them. When the girls were asked various questions, they could not answer any of them about cost, how to find total cost, interest, etc. These girls are in grade 8 and grade 10 in the public schools of Leon, Gto. They have no education on consumer buying, etc. One suggested their dad should buy their mom the lavadora, as the weekly payment was low and he brings home almost 600 pesos a week. Certainly he could buy it.


Go to the Elektra website and see all the details about their various weekly plans and see for yourself the total cost is there. Simply click on a refrigerator or washing machine and select a plan and the data is there. Calculate the total cost they have given and figure out the rate of yearly interest. Grade 7 mathamatics.

I would think a sales rep. could tell you the final cost if you asked them, why not, before they draw up a contract with this data?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Sellling merchandise on the credit installment plan for prices not clearly marked (or, seemingly not always clearly marked) at annual interest rates of 38-40% to people I believe it's generally recognized/understood are not experienced or educated enough to understand the terms/conditions of such a financial transaction - a specifically targeted consumer group because of their lack of understanding - is predatory and abusive IMO. It's clearly a profitable strategy for a company to behave this way, but conducting business in that manner is indefensive morally and ethically.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> Go to the Elektra website and see all the details about their various weekly plans and see for yourself the total cost is there. Simply click on a refrigerator or washing machine and select a plan and the data is there. Calculate the total cost they have given and figure out the rate of yearly interest. Grade 7 mathamatics.
> 
> I would think a sales rep. could tell you the final cost if you asked them, why not, before they draw up a contract with this data?


Alan, you assume too much about some people. My father-in-law has never checked his oil (he didn't know how until I showed him and he has been driving a car for 30 years).
Alan, this family has no computer, no internet, the parents both finished 6th grade. I'm sure sales reps never "lie" to customers, but my point was that there are many that can not do 5th grade math, nor 7th grade math and they ARE dependent on what a person tells them, and they know no difference.. IMO, Mexicans are extremely good at the things they do and can "make do" well. But, on other things such as credit, many are in bad shape. (I think that is true in many countries, but here we are trying to talk about Mexico, not other countries). Every country has stores that "target" certain income levels and I agree with you that there is a lot of risk in selling to certain income levels, thus high interest rates. I also agree with others that say that many in certain income groups have little choice. (The rich get richer and the poor get poorer covers a lot). Right or wrong, that is how the world revolves.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Every country has stores that "target" certain income levels and I agree with you that there is a lot of risk in selling to certain income levels, thus high interest rates.


So to make up for the possibility that some customers buying things on credit will just disappear when they can't continue to make payments, these stores are allowed to charge extortionate interest rates to all their customers. Unbelievable!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Fortunately, some countries have some government agencies that help consumers overcome these "sharks", but sadly in many countries, there is little enforcement. My wife received a bill for licence plate renewal, and the letter said that if she didn't pay it by a certain date, they would send someone to her parents home and take a refri ot Tv , or both, to make up for the value of the renewal fee. She had already transferred the car to another Mexican state, but had not shown "proof" to the Gto. office, since she had not lived there for over a year. She was scared for her parents and we made a special trip to Gto. with our paperwork.  
Where I grew up, that can not happen.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Isla Verde said:


> So to make up for the possibility that some customers buying things on credit will just disappear when they can't continue to make payments, these stores are allowed to charge extortionate interest rates to all their customers. Unbelievable!


But, it is very true and common practice almost everywhere. If half of your customers default and the merchandise is gone or of little residual value, who would keep you in business? Sadly, it must be the half who do pay their bills. Such behavior is not simply a possibility, as you say, but a definite pattern with little recourse since the demise of the poor farms and debtor prisons.
Those with better credit can get credit cards, and those who behave responsibly can get lower rates of interest than those who do not pay up on time, or only pay the minimum.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Fortunately, some countries have some government agencies that help consumers overcome these "sharks", but sadly in many countries, there is little enforcement. My wife received a bill for licence plate renewal, and the letter said that if she didn't pay it by a certain date, they would send someone to her parents home and take a refri ot Tv , or both, to make up for the value of the renewal fee. She had already transferred the car to another Mexican state, but had not shown "proof" to the Gto. office, since she had not lived there for over a year. She was scared for her parents and we made a special trip to Gto. with our paperwork.
> Where I grew up, that can not happen.


That makes no sense - what connection is there between a government agency and a refrigerator? Would it be auctioned off to pay the license plate fee? I'll bet that lots of Mexicans drive around without a current license plate on their cars - have they all had kitchen appliances confiscated to make up for the lost revenue?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

That is not unlike placing a lien on property in the USA. Here, it can be done as described above to satisfy a debt. It is a formal, legal process, as I understand it.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> That is not unlike placing a lien on property in the USA. Here, it can be done as described above to satisfy a debt. It is a formal, legal process, as I understand it.


How is not renewing a license plate registration a debt? What if you sold the car? It seems like overkill to me, perhaps as a reaction to the laissez-faire attitude many Mexicans have about things like this, like driving without a license or having automobile insurance.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> That makes no sense - what connection is there between a government agency and a refrigerator? Would it be auctioned off to pay the license plate fee? I'll bet that lots of Mexicans drive around without a current license plate on their cars - have they all had kitchen appliances confiscated to make up for the lost revenue?


First time I hear something like that too!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I couldn't believe it was true when my wife first told me. Then I read the letter and told her that they can't do that. She said they can and do, this is Mexico, not the US, and she knew people that it had happened to. She convinced me to go to Gto. with the papers where we licensed the car in Jalisco and paid about 1000 pesos for them to notify Gto. that she had registered the car in Jalisco. This "taking things" can happen for lots of debts in Mexico. In other countries, no. Just because you have not heard about it, means you know no one who has had it happen to them.


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