# Any British/Egyptian or American/Egyptian couples here?



## Mayapearl01

Hi all,

I have been married to an Egyptian man for eight years and we have been living in the UK. We are thinking about moving out to live in cairo or Hurgahda. I would be interested in hearing from anyone in a similar situation. It would be very nice to hear some positive things!! but I would also like to hear about some of the ups and downs of life in Egpt. I have a three year old daughter and another on the way-So wouldn't be moving out until after she is born. I am a teacher and my husband is a fitness intstructor and Tennis coach.

Anne-Marie


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## starchief

To be honest, I don't find that much difference between Cairo and some of the more industrialized cities in the UK (Glasgow, Liverpool, maybe London). A lot depends on your situation. There seems to be plenty of jobs for teachers here, so you should be ok. And that would mean some ex-pat friends, if you need that. How much you enjoy your work, as ever, depends on your job/boss/colleagues.

Contrary to some of the many negative people on here, I've found Egyptians to be, surprise, surprise, just people. Most of them go to work, come home, pay their rent/mortgage, chat with a few friends, complain about politics/weather/job etc and get on with life. Some of them are very nice (my in-law family is great), some not so. Most just in-between. Same as any city. Although last time I said that, that was 'misinterpreted' as both that I'd never had a bad experience (not true) and that all people are good in Egypt (not true). Gets pretty tiresome, hence why I rarely post on here.

The traffic is of course a nightmare. Crossing the street, I never take chances. Pick the right spot and you can get across safely. You might have to wait a couple of minutes but so what? I've never driven here. Partly due to the traffic, partly due to the high cost of cars (£3000 for a banger or 6p for the tram - no brainer) but also because there's absolutely no need. Plenty of buses, trams and taxis.

Crime-wise, I find it less than the cities I've mentioned. The negatives will no doubt try to re-interpret my words as 'there's no crime'. Not true. It happens but it's not Somalia. Just be careful, that's all. I believe the last 'misinterpretation' of my words were that bad things happen to bad people. Of course anyone can be unlucky enough to be a victim of crime but that's quite far from my original post of 'if you've got a bad attitude to other people, then you can only expect others to have a bad attitude to you'.

I was lucky in that a few children were born to my brothers/sisters-in-law, so we could both baby talk Arabic. It meant I could teach them the words for, say, doors and windows and they could teach me useful things like space alien or monkey (kids, you see!). Interestingly, no distinction in Arabic between tiger and leopard (other than saying striped leopard), despite different stripes/spots, sizes and continents. There's a few other strange things like that. My oldest niece would also teach me the word for window (samaka), which I would then proudly tell everyone else. She'd then laugh as she enjoyed tricking me (samaka means fish). Actually, many of the kids here are nicer than the UK, plus you can have a laugh with them without someone seeing something sinister. A teacher once said the best thing about Egypt was that you were allowed to hug the children. Pretty sad that would be an offence in the West.

Use tabbloid.com and you'll get a free British newspaper every morning (especially the Guardian for full feeds, plus BBC, blogs etc), ART gives Scottish football and English Championship/Cups, plus a few other English-language tv stations for about £10 a month. Showtime shows the English Premiership (and some other channels) for about triple the price. Use torrents/rapidshare/tv-duck/tv-links and others to get your favourite TV programmes (which seems limited to the IT Crowd these days). What else do you need? Just the countryside for me.


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## Egyuk

Starchief
Great comment. Positives and negatives! To the contrary of all the inputs on this forums.
An insightful view of the normal day to day aspects of living.

Cheers!


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## NZCowboy

What trams ... out this way (Nasr City - Heliopolis) they have all been closed, and ripped up within the last year. The Metro is still years away. Lets all drive cars ... 
Same with the rubbish, used to be fenced area with rubbish skips, beside the souq, last week I go to put the rubbish out, and fences are gone the area concreted over and bins gone. It's back to what it was like ten years ago, the rubbish is piling up on the corners of the streets again. 
One hand has no idea what the other hand is doing!!


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## Mayapearl01

*good advice starchief*

Starchief, thanks for your reply. Really interesting. I'm not really sure that this the right forum for spouses of Egyptians as some of the comments are pretty depressing. I think you are absolutely right in saying that all coutries are made up of both good and bad.. I am assuming that your wife is coptic? My husband is Muslim and this generally seems to be much more of a problem for "civilised" westerners than for anyone in Egypt. He has happily attended Church weddings atc with me even though it is not his religion, but I have friends who are horrified by any interest I show in Islam. I have spent quite a bit of time in Egypt, so have some idea what I am letting myself in for. 

There are some culural differences that annoy and others that make me smile.I remember attending my sister-in-laws wedding the women there insisted on doing my make up... subtle it wasn't!! The things I find difficult are the lack of personal space (my in-laws find it absolutely inconceivable that I should wish to sit on my own and read a book) , lack of trees/gardens etc. There are also may positives too. Here in the Uk if a little kid fell over my husband used to run to pick them up and hug them..he stopped after numerous hostile stares. I also like the fact that we can take our daughter out on a Friday night without having someone moon at us or vomit!

what do you think are the best things to do in Cairo? (not necessarily touristy) Are there any cultural differences that you find difficult? 




starchief said:


> To be honest, I don't find that much difference between Cairo and some of the more industrialized cities in the UK (Glasgow, Liverpool, maybe London). A lot depends on your situation. There seems to be plenty of jobs for teachers here, so you should be ok. And that would mean some ex-pat friends, if you need that. How much you enjoy your work, as ever, depends on your job/boss/colleagues.
> 
> Contrary to some of the many negative people on here, I've found Egyptians to be, surprise, surprise, just people. Most of them go to work, come home, pay their rent/mortgage, chat with a few friends, complain about politics/weather/job etc and get on with life. Some of them are very nice (my in-law family is great), some not so. Most just in-between. Same as any city. Although last time I said that, that was 'misinterpreted' as both that I'd never had a bad experience (not true) and that all people are good in Egypt (not true). Gets pretty tiresome, hence why I rarely post on here.
> 
> The traffic is of course a nightmare. Crossing the street, I never take chances. Pick the right spot and you can get across safely. You might have to wait a couple of minutes but so what? I've never driven here. Partly due to the traffic, partly due to the high cost of cars (£3000 for a banger or 6p for the tram - no brainer) but also because there's absolutely no need. Plenty of buses, trams and taxis.
> 
> Crime-wise, I find it less than the cities I've mentioned. The negatives will no doubt try to re-interpret my words as 'there's no crime'. Not true. It happens but it's not Somalia. Just be careful, that's all. I believe the last 'misinterpretation' of my words were that bad things happen to bad people. Of course anyone can be unlucky enough to be a victim of crime but that's quite far from my original post of 'if you've got a bad attitude to other people, then you can only expect others to have a bad attitude to you'.
> 
> I was lucky in that a few children were born to my brothers/sisters-in-law, so we could both baby talk Arabic. It meant I could teach them the words for, say, doors and windows and they could teach me useful things like space alien or monkey (kids, you see!). Interestingly, no distinction in Arabic between tiger and leopard (other than saying striped leopard), despite different stripes/spots, sizes and continents. There's a few other strange things like that. My oldest niece would also teach me the word for window (samaka), which I would then proudly tell everyone else. She'd then laugh as she enjoyed tricking me (samaka means fish). Actually, many of the kids here are nicer than the UK, plus you can have a laugh with them without someone seeing something sinister. A teacher once said the best thing about Egypt was that you were allowed to hug the children. Pretty sad that would be an offence in the West.
> 
> Use tabbloid.com and you'll get a free British newspaper every morning (especially the Guardian for full feeds, plus BBC, blogs etc), ART gives Scottish football and English Championship/Cups, plus a few other English-language tv stations for about £10 a month. Showtime shows the English Premiership (and some other channels) for about triple the price. Use torrents/rapidshare/tv-duck/tv-links and others to get your favourite TV programmes (which seems limited to the IT Crowd these days). What else do you need? Just the countryside for me.


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## NZCowboy

Maya,
I'm sorry this spouse doesn't walk around with his rose tinted glasses on.... but then maybe i'm out of order posting on your thread as I'm not British or American.
Been coming out here for almost 10 years, married to an "Egyptian" for over eight years, living in Cairo for almost 3 years, and twin boys almost 5years, just tell it as I see it.
As a spouse its alot easier, than a straight expat, as your partner knows the in and outs, and has the contacts/networks here because here its all about who you know


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## Beatle

Mayapearl01 said:


> Starchief, thanks for your reply. Really interesting. I'm not really sure that this the right forum for spouses of Egyptians as some of the comments are pretty depressing.


Some of the comments are depressing but just feel free to disagree - I do!


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## Tinytraveler

Things that you may find nice here is that you are not overly saturated with commercials or ads. Don't know what it is like in the UK but in the states it is BUY BUY BUY all the time even to the little kids during cartoons. Here you will have Baraem TV that doesn't have any commericals. Even the channels that are for adults in English have a lot less commercials. 
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that your DH is going to be treated as if he is a rich expat, and almost as if he isn't egyptian at all. People will just assume you are bringing bags of money with you and will try to lighten your load. 
If you don't NEED to be in Cairo you might want to think about 6th Oct. There is less pollution (I have a very hard time breathing when we go into Cairo for the day), it's cooler, and housing is far less expensive and you can find quiet neighborhoods. There is a neighborhood of Townhouses (2bed 1bath) for something like 100,000 EL. called Bait AlElla that has green spaces so the kids have a place to play in. ( Shhh!!!! This is a very well hidden secret) There is Golds Gym, plenty of compound neighborhoods where private training could be done, and Dreamland has a gym and tennis courts as well. If you are looking for a job as a teacher there are several English schools out here as well as language institutes you might think about.


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## starchief

Mayapearl01 said:


> lack of trees/gardens etc.


There are some but not being able to disappear camping in the wilds is my biggest gripe. Fortunately, my main income is from wildlife, so that lets me go overseas to do that occasionally. But a trip out camping in the desert (check out the BCA mag, Community Times, Egypt Today etc) is well worth doing, as is going to Aswan or somewhere like Lake Burullus or the Delta for greenery.



Mayapearl01 said:


> what do you think are the best things to do in Cairo? (not necessarily touristy)


Most of the high spots are touristy, i.e. the pyramids, museum, Wadi Hitan, going to the desert etc but kicking back in a shisha cafe or spending the day on a beach are my normal getaways. Actually, my most normal is just sitting on the balcony on another sunny day tapping away at the laptop. There's loads of fashion and ornamental shops but I'm afraid I have no interest in them. You may.



Mayapearl01 said:


> Are there any cultural differences that you find difficult?


Maybe the concept of queuing, which doesn't seem to exist anywhere outside Britain (not being literal, as the negatives look to jump on any statement). I kind of expected that in the Med countries and Africa, but it was a bit of a shock when that happened in Toronto. You also have to get used to the noise. If you can just accept a car beeping his horn or someone shouting 'fool' at the top of his voice is nothing personal, then you should be alright.

Cairo's a big melting pot. What's acceptable in Shubra isn't what's acceptable in Zamalek. Generally, the poorer the suburb, the more, what would you say, respect matters. Holding hands or wearing a short-sleeved t-shirt on a woman is fine in Heliopolis but not so great in Tanta. In certain parts of the countryside, teenagers mix freely, in others, the segregation is stifling. Probably depends on your personality how much you are affected (assuming you're living somewhere ok). If you stress at people saying 'welcome to Egypt' (as, quite unbelievably, some people on here seem to), you're in for a hard time. Otherwise, just accept it's a foreign country. Some things are better, some are worse. C'est la vie.

Just to note, if you live in the suburbs, like 6th of October, be aware of a ridiculously long commute (depends where you work of course). Maadi and Zamalek are the usual foreign places in the city but don't be fooled. There's still hardly any foreigners. Way less than if you took a trip around London. Places like Mohandiseen, Heliopolis or Garden City are more middle-class Egyptian, a bit cheaper and just as good (actually, I'd recommend Heliopolis over them all, except maybe Zamalek).



> I'm sorry this spouse doesn't walk around with his rose tinted glasses on


See what I mean. If you mention something positive (even if you acknowledge there are also negatives), you're wearing 'rose tinted glasses'. There's no objectivity, just negativity.


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## Mayapearl01

Hi guys,

thanks for all the replies, very interesting. I am certainly not a rose tinted glasses person. Having spent a great deal of time in cairo, I am only too familiar with the problems and frustrations. I have been gawped at, ripped off, overwhelmed by smells, upset and on one occassion I even had people trying to touch and take pieces of my hair in Fayoum! However, i have had upsetting experiences in many parts of the world and in some respects see this as one of the side effects of travelling to a different country and culture.

Starchief and tiny traveller thanks for all the info really useful. We Will probably be in Giza initially and then may look to go out of town a little afterwards. We thought about Hurghada too, but I'm not so sure about that, think there might be more for us in cairo.


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