# Swimming pool care



## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Having been here just over six months (how time flies!), we are now on the verge of moving to our third property!!

We moved to this one to get out of the hell-hole that was our first apartment, but since all our 'stuff' has arrived, we are finding it a bit cramped, mainly because we have cupboards and the store room full of the landlords items that cannot be removed. So, we are taking advantage of the six-month option to give notice to move out, and have been looking for somewhere to be our 'forever home'. We were taken to a couple of places yesterday, and six more this morning, and we have settled on a detached villa in Peyia with a private swimming pool - not something we had particularly wanted or considered, but the house is lovely and we have had a good deal on the rent.

The question is, we now need to find out how to look after the pool! The rental agency say it's not rocket science, but we want to keep the cost as low as possible by doing it ourselves, so what do we need to do on a daily/weekly/monthly basis, and how much approximately will it cost (not including the electric for the pump).

Beginning to wonder if we have bitten off more than we can chew!!


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## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

Some realistic advice on this site, if that helps:

Pool School - TFP Home Page


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Excellent site, thank you!


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

To keep a pool in good condition is very simple as long as you check it regularly. It's when you leave it unmaintained for a while that things can go rather wrong and it may be more difficult to fix.

The following is a screed that my brother-in-law requested to help him with his first pool when he moves to Spain:

As far as pools are concerned you will find some good websites to give guidance, calculators and cures for problems. Most of them are American so read everything with a pinch of salt as they are designed to sell stuff. Americans love pouring chemicals into their pools and most of them aren't at all necessary unless something goes wrong.

I would suggest for your pool the first stage is to establish what you've got. Check your pump house where the minimum you should see is a pump, sand filter and a multi-way valve. For equipment you should have a net for lifting debris out, a brush attachment for cleaning the sides and a vacuum cleaner attachment which all fit onto an extending pole. You also need a vacuum hose between the cleaner head and an entry in a skimmer (the return outlet from the pool). In addition you need a water testing kit. These are often a small container with 2 sections you fill with pool water. You then drop dyes from small bottles in, fit the caps, shake and then check the colours against a scale on the container. A better way is to buy pots of test strips which you dip in the water and then check the colours against a scale. They will give you more readings about the total state of the water.

There are 3 types of pool construction. 2 form a reinforced concrete tank which can then either be tiled or have a printed PVC liner fitted. Rarer pools are a huge fibreglass tanks such as ours. The most common type is the liner pool. Liners should last about 10 years I am told before replacement.

The 2 most important things you need worry about in the water are chlorine which is added to kill bacteria and the pH of the water. Your test kits will tell you the state of the water for these. Chlorine is added regularly in small amounts. You can buy dichlor or trichlor in powder or granular form but better and more convenient are tablets. All of these contain chlorine and also cyanuric acid which helps prevent the chlorine being destroyed by UV light. As time goes by the cyanuric acid builds up and can only be removed by water change but this should be happening naturally as you maintain the pool. If not, as has happened in my pool for another reason, a mass water change is required. Chlorine tablets contain other chemicals too and should help balance the pH at the correct level. Ph is important to keep the chlorine working effectively and to help stop stinging eyes etc. If the level is too high you add acid which can be bought as tubs of pH+ or in sacks as Sodium Bisulphate. If it's too low you add pH- or sodium bicarbonate. The initial pH level will depend on the water you add for top up. Ours is very alkaline so I get through about 75Kg of acid a year.

If the chlorine and pH level are maintained you should have little problem with the pool. The main problem comes when you are away and leave the pool. If the water evaporates you can burn the pump out, but if you turn the pump off completely you can get algae and eventually green water which then needs to be treated. This can be very simple to deal with as it was for us until this year when the deterioration in our water after 6 years caused a real bad green water problem which I had to call the professionals in to sort out.

Obviously in a hot climate the water will evaporate and that's why you need to top up and check the chemical levels regularly. Other than maintaining the chemical levels, water level, emptying the skimmer baskets of debris and vacuuming dust and rubbish out the only other thing to do is an occasional backwash. You should be running the pump off of a time switch for 2 to 3 hours morning and evening during the winter with an additional midday cycle during the summer. If the pool then gets heavy use such as lots of kids in it or an orgy with the neighbours you can override the time switch onto manual for extra filtration. The water is being filtered through sand or glass filter medium in the filter within the pump house and after a time becomes clogged with crap. This may be indicated on a pressure gauge on the filter if you have one. When the gauge shows close to the red area it is time for a backwash. If you have no gauge you will have to judge it yourself but I would guess every 3 to 4 weeks should be plenty. Backwashing pumps water from the pool in reverse through the filter and then out to waste carrying the crap with it. It should only be necessary to run on backwash for a few minutes and your multi-way valve should also have a water sight tube where you can see the clarity of the water going through. When clear the backwash is complete. It is essential to then pump water through on the rinse cycle for 20 to 30 seconds to clear out the residual crap in the pipes or it will end up back in the pool. The multi-way valve should have settings which are fairly self explanatory: Filter, closed, backwash, rinse, recirculate and drain. It is essential to turn the pump off before changing the valve position or you will blow the internal gasket.

I hope this is useful.

Pete


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Excellent information, Pete, thank you. Not sure about orgies with the neighbours though! It all sounds very involved but I'm sure we'll get to grips with it (the pool, not the neighbours). Might nip into one of the pool places and price up all the chemicals, etc, just to give me some idea.

We don't know much about the pool at the moment, other than it's being looked after while the house is empty, but someone is going to come and explain more to us once we have the keys - there's no going back now, anyway, as we've signed the contract today!


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Oh shucks Dennis and I were expecting to be invited to an orgy once you move in.


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

One of our relatives pays €30 per month for the pool to be kept clean which may give you some idea. I suppose if you do it yourself, the worry is when you want to go away for a while.


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Veronica said:


> Oh shucks Dennis and I were expecting to be invited to an orgy once you move in.


LOL, let the party go with a swing!!


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

hiatusxenia said:


> One of our relatives pays €30 per month for the pool to be kept clean which may give you some idea. I suppose if you do it yourself, the worry is when you want to go away for a while.


That seems quite reasonable, thank you for the information. I suppose it depends on the size of the pool. I will discuss it with the landlord anyway, and then decide what to do.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Veronica said:


> Oh shucks Dennis and I were expecting to be invited to an orgy once you move in.





DH59 said:


> LOL, let the party go with a swing!!


Well, it looks like elevenses has 2 potential couples for his proposed swingers club!


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

DH59 said:


> That seems quite reasonable, thank you for the information. I suppose it depends on the size of the pool. I will discuss it with the landlord anyway, and then decide what to do.


That seems far too low. Does it include full weekly maintenance including chemicals or a once monthly vacuum session?

Pete


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

PeteandSylv said:


> That seems far too low. Does it include full weekly maintenance including chemicals or a once monthly vacuum session? Pete


I will ask her and post on here. There may be a lot of hidden extras of which I was not aware, but they seemed very pleased.


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## debs21 (Mar 13, 2013)

hiatusxenia said:


> One of our relatives pays €30 per month for the pool to be kept clean which may give you some idea. I suppose if you do it yourself, the worry is when you want to go away for a while.


Wow €30 a month is amazing, are you sure? We used to pay well over that!


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Well, I think we will be sorting it ourselves, once we have had a little instruction, so the cost will be mainly in the chemicals and other materials needed, as well as the electricity for the pump, of course.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Just to add my tuppence worth, these are my thoughts and preferences:

A walk around any pool store will have you believe that PH and Chlorine balance is all you need to do. Unfortunately this isn’t true and what the pool store isn't telling you is to their benefit. As PeteAndSylv says, your Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level will rise with regular use of shop bought chlorine tablets and granules because they include CYA. Your Chlorine will get used up (by the sun or by killing algae) but your CYA will not. The problem is that the more CYA you have in the water, the less effective your chlorine is at killing algae so you will have to keep going back to the shop to buy more chlorine tablets/granules (you see how this benefits them?). The excellent TFP forum (linked to by MacManiac) has all you need to know (and more) but it will take some time to digest but I suggest a quick look at the Chlorine/CYA chart in the Pool School as a good starting point.

A couple of other points just for clarification:

PH+ is for raising your PH and PH- is for lowering it and you can use other chemicals to do this other than the expensive pool store products.

Bleach can be used to chlorinate your pool without raising the CYA. Yes, Bleach! You’d be surprised how alarmed people get when I tell them this until I point them to the labels and they read “Contents: Sodium Hypochlorite” on both (only use normal unscented bleach). If you haven’t got a bottle of liquid chlorine to hand, just take the lid off the bottle of bleach and have a smell, what does it smell like? The local swimming pool! 

It’s a good idea to backwash when your starting pressure (where the needle is after backwashing) has gone up roughly 33% (some say 25% but I prefer 33% to save a bit of water). I’ve never been able to get my needle into the red as I think the pump would have conked out long before it got to that stage but to give you an idea. If your starting pressure is 15psi, back wash when it gets to 20 psi.
If you are serious about having the cleanest pool possible, then a professional testing kit is worth its weight in gold. I've used test strips that have told me that my CYA level was fine (between 30-50) but for some reason, I couldn't keep chlorine in the pool no matter how many times I shocked it. With my expensive (just to warn you) LaMotte FAS-DPD 7022-01 kit, it showed my CYA level to be 160! After a 75% drain and refill and SLAM (see TFP site) I now have a sparkling pool that requires very little maintenance and costs me about €1 a day, maybe even less. 

I'll stop there as that’s more like five pence worth! 

Good luck!


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Desiato, thank you for your comment. I believe I commented on your post on that excellent TFP site! We are waiting to move in and get some tips from a pool guy to start us off, then take another look at how to proceed with the TFP method.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

DH59 said:


> Desiato, thank you for your comment. I believe I commented on your post on that excellent TFP site! We are waiting to move in and get some tips from a pool guy to start us off, then take another look at how to proceed with the TFP method.


I figured that might be you. 

I know that test kit is expensive but I've just emailed the guy I bought it from with a couple of problems (broken lid, cracked tube, query on the unsealed bottles) and he's answered all my questions thoroughly. I also said I'd take some reagents if he is going to post out the replacement parts FOC (to make it worth his while) and he said he'll throw them in! So at the moment a big thumbs up on the service side (I also told him you might be emailing him).

To be honest, apart from knowing which knobs to turn, there's not much a pool guy will tell you that the TFP site won't. In fact, he could send you off down the wrong track when it comes to chemicals. I'm still learning myself and today have been reading up on the BBB method. The problem at the moment is the B for Borax as it doesn't seem to be available in Spain (like strong bleach) but I'm still investigating. 

Good luck!


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Because we will be with pool from September I try to find all information possible about this new thing. I am quite sure that I will manage to maintain it myself, but what I cant find is a figure for the cost of the chemicals.Different forum posts vary a LOT.

So perhaps all you you who maintain yourself can give a round figure?

The pool is 8x4m


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

The costs will vary a lot depending on the pool itself, it's location and the water source. In our case we have salt chlorinator to provide chlorine so our chlorine purchase is very low. On the other hand our well water is very alkaline so I am regularly putting acid in to balance the pH. At the beginning of the season I have the cost of salt top up to consider.

I would suggest you might use 3 pots of trichlor and a bag or 2 of acid which will total around €150. You also have the cost of pump electricity which I'm sure you can work out. At the moment I run the pump for 3 sessions per day of 1.5 hours, 2 sessions of 1 hour out of season plus extra running if the pool is heavily used.

That will probably be your minimum cost. If you become one of those types that loves to hurl chemicals in you will also have the cost of algaecide, flocculant, cleaner, sand renovator and Dog knows what else.

One thing to note, I once bought some chemicals in a pool company in Polis and found their prices to be exceedingly high compared to Paphos.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> The costs will vary a lot depending on the pool itself, it's location and the water source. In our case we have salt chlorinator to provide chlorine so our chlorine purchase is very low. On the other hand our well water is very alkaline so I am regularly putting acid in to balance the pH. At the beginning of the season I have the cost of salt top up to consider.
> 
> I would suggest you might use 3 pots of trichlor and a bag or 2 of acid which will total around €150. You also have the cost of pump electricity which I'm sure you can work out. At the moment I run the pump for 3 sessions per day of 1.5 hours, 2 sessions of 1 hour out of season plus extra running if the pool is heavily used.
> 
> ...


No far from it Pete. I just want to keep it clear and healthy, using as little chemicals as possible. I will even talk to the owner about a chlorinator.

We have agriculture water to fill with, so I will make a lab-test to find out the quality.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

You owner is unlikely to fork out for a chlorinator which will probably cost €1000+ to have fitted here and gives him no benefits if you are paying for chlorine.

Pete


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

I can understand why you would think chemicals in a pool are a bad thing because we know how harmful chemicals can be when we come into contact with them. The problem is with pool maintenance, you'll have a very hard time trying to keep it ‘clear and healthy’ without using chemicals. I can't put my hand on my heart and say that swimming in any pool with chlorine in is safe but a properly balanced pool is many many times safer than an improperly balanced pool. One study showed that people who showered regularly had traces of chlorine in their system which they absorbed through their skin. Until the water companies find an alternative to chlorine to kill bacteria in water, we will always be exposed to chemicals one way or another. 

If you have a regular sand filter, there is still nothing better than chlorine to kill algae. You will have to learn the balancing act of keeping your PH within range (between 7.2 and 7.8) as well as maintaining the correct levels for Cyanuric Acid (CYA) Total Alkalinity (TA) and Calcium Hardness (CH). I say correct levels because one will affect the other and so there isn't a ‘one size fits all’ figure that will work for everyone.

For example, if you have a high CYA, you will have to maintain a higher level of Free Chlorine (FC) to combat algae (see the chart on the TFP site mentioned earlier in this thread). If your CH is high (like mine - 560) you should keep your PH and your TA low (mine are 7.4 for PH and 70 for TA) as having a high PH and high CH and high TA will give you a high Calcium Saturation Index (CSI) which puts you at risk of calcium scaling. See the Pool Math chart for what levels you should maintain based on your pool volume and current numbers. Confused? You will be... to start with but after a while the fog starts to clear (as will your pool) and just like learning Spanish, it will start to make sense the more you dive into it.

To start with, your CH and CYA are kind of set in stone until you decide to drain a large percentage of the pool and refill. Most people start with really high CYA due to the constant use of shop bought chlorine tabs (what else were you supposed to use?). So with your CYA level as your starting point (mine is now 60) you can then work out what level the FC needs to be (mine is between 5 and 7). Ideally you want your CYA to be between 30 and 50 but I didn't drain enough so I'm slowly getting that down with backwashing. The problem I have now is that I hardly ever backwash as my pool is so clean there's nothing clogging up the sand. I used to backwash 2 or 3 times a week and sometimes twice a day when I was vacuuming and I've been doing that for years! I've now backwashed twice in the last month but I've only been following the TFP method for 6 weeks (after a lot of research) and my PSI (Sand filter pressure) hasn't shifted of its starting point of 15 for a week so who knows when I will backwash again? I sound like I am complaining but this is a major change and I will save a pretty penny with the reduced water bill. What was odd was that the pool always looked clear before but there was algae living in the pool and consuming all my chlorine but I just couldn't see it. I just got used to the routine of dumping lots of chlorine tabs in the floater, shocking every once in a while when it went green and backwashing 2/3 times a week. Seeing isn't always believing, as we should all know by now, it's all in the test results!

The TA is the last thing to worry about (and the last thing to address) and you set this based on your CH level but you can forget about that to start with. Immerse yourself into the TFP site (can I think of any more pool related puns?) and you’ll soon be boring everyone you know with your new found water balancing skills. If you find yourself drowning in info (yep, I can!) there’s plenty of people to steer you straight.

Cheers


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Some good advice is Desiato's repy but the concept of backwashing 2/3 times a week is way over the top. When do you get time to swim???!!!

In fact there are sites (American) suggesting that normal backwashing routines are way over the top and no-one should backwash before an interval of at least 3-4 weeks. They claim that the algae within the filter acts as an additional filter medium trapping even smaller particles.

I've no idea if this it true or not but I currently rely on the pressure gauge to indicate when to backwash and it probably is every few weeks.

Pete


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

PeteandSylv said:


> Some good advice is Desiato's repy but the concept of backwashing 2/3 times a week is way over the top. When do you get time to swim???!!!
> 
> In fact there are sites (American) suggesting that normal backwashing routines are way over the top and no-one should backwash before an interval of at least 3-4 weeks. They claim that the algae within the filter acts as an additional filter medium trapping even smaller particles.
> 
> ...


I *used *to backwash 2 to 3 times a week because the pressure would go from 15 to 30 and every time it hit 30, I had to backwash. I was going on the information given to my wife by the gardener who had been maintaining the pool for some years (badly as it now turns out). It just became a routine and I didn't know any different and then I decided to look a bit further into why there was never any chlorine in the pool (despite constantly filling up the floater) and why the pool would go green every now and then. Then I found the TFP site and all of my problems have been resolved. 

There's no fixed time limit on when to backwash, as you say, it's when the filter tells you it's time. I was sceptical on first reading that a 25% increase from the starting point was the time to backwash as that would mean when it went from 15psi to 19psi. I was so used to seeing my pressure gauge go from 15 to 20 in a couple of hours that I thought that advice was crazy! Now that my pool is perfectly balanced (or as close as I can get it with my high CYA and CH) I can see that it will take quite some time for my pressure gauge to get to 19/20 (3 to 4 weeks maybe? Like I said, it hasn't moved from 15psi in a week of regular use so who knows?). 

I read that about filters too and there is some logic to it so if we were to give any advice it would be, “don’t backwash too soon” and that’s one of the reasons I wait until mine hits 20 rather than 19 and when I do backwash, it’s full of dirty water that takes a minute to run clear so it seems to be good advice. Those Americans are pretty experienced when it comes to pool maintenance and although we can’t use exactly the same chemicals as they do (like Borax due to EU regulations) and our bleach is less than half the strength of theirs, we can still have crystal clear pools thanks to their knowledge.

A few pics including my plumbing to aerate the water to raise the PH without raising the TA https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/x8UYV5


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Desiato said:


> I *used *to backwash 2 to 3 times a week because the pressure would go from 15 to 30 and every time it hit 30, I had to backwash. I was going on the information given to my wife by the gardener who had been maintaining the pool for some years (badly as it now turns out). It just became a routine and I didn't know any different and then I decided to look a bit further into why there was never any chlorine in the pool (despite constantly filling up the floater) and why the pool would go green every now and then. Then I found the TFP site and all of my problems have been resolved.
> 
> There's no fixed time limit on when to backwash, as you say, it's when the filter tells you it's time. I was sceptical on first reading that a 25% increase from the starting point was the time to backwash as that would mean when it went from 15psi to 19psi. I was so used to seeing my pressure gauge go from 15 to 20 in a couple of hours that I thought that advice was crazy! Now that my pool is perfectly balanced (or as close as I can get it with my high CYA and CH) I can see that it will take quite some time for my pressure gauge to get to 19/20 (3 to 4 weeks maybe? Like I said, it hasn't moved from 15psi in a week of regular use so who knows?).
> 
> ...


I am sure I will learn over time.
One question already now, even if we move in september. I was looking at using fluid chlorine bought in Germany. Even if I calculate the shipping it is much cheaper then here and is of high quality. Could I do that?


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Liquid chlorine and bleach are the same thing just with different chlorine levels. The bleach in Spain has between 35g and 40g per litre of chlorine (or sodium hypochlorite as it is also called) and liquid chlorine has anywhere between 127g to 160g per litre. I calculated that a 25kg (also described as 20L) of Liquid Chlorine with 127g of Chlorine for €24 was €4 more than buying it as bleach (17 5L bottles). It can be a pain buying trolley loads of bleach (at least to start with when you are SLAMing the pool) but now I know that 1 x 5L bottle of bleach will raise my Free Chlorine 2.75ppm, I can judge quite accurately how much of a bottle I need to put in every day. Chlorine tabs slowly release chlorine so you can dump them in the floater and forget about it for a week but once you switch to the TFP method, you will need to spare 5/10 minutes a day to check/top up the chlorine...until you get a Salt Water Generator (SWG) that is.


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Baywatch, if you go down the route of getting bleach from Germany, I would be interested to know how much it costs (also what type of bleach it is), and if we could order in bulk and share the cost.

I'm a little concerned at the moment, as I am not sure whether the skimmers are working efficiently enough, and we did have an air problem, but an engineer has given us some advice about that and it seems to have settled. Apparently the system has had this trouble since day one, according to a neighbour, even when our landlords lived in the house.

The pool also has an algae problem, with the grout between the tiles black in some areas. Keith has been in with a stiff brush and got a lot off, but there is more to deal with.

I have only purchased test strips at the moment, as we have been busy moving in, transferring all our stuff from the apartment, and trying to get everything put away and tidy (work in progress!), but I did ask at a pool store about one of the more sopisticated test kits, and was told 'you don't need that'!! Will call again and insist I WANT one, even if I don't need it!! I think they may be the only stockist here, my other option being to order from the UK. I THINK the levels are OK, and we have been in for a swim a few times with no ill effects, and the water looks clear enough.

We are using the chemicals that were in the pool house - namely putting the chlorine tabs in the skimmers, but have not had to add anything else yet.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

I used the test strips for years and also had a clean pool, problem was I could never keep the chlorine in the pool for very long. The test strips always showed my chlorine as 0 so I was constantly shoveling chlorine in via granules and tabs in the floater. My CYA always said I was in the safe zone of 30 to 50 but when I got a decent test kit, it showed it to be 160! I got used to backwashing 2/3 times a week and this went on for years. The pressure gauge would go up, the flow would drop to a crawl and after a backwash, it was fine and on the cycle continued. 

Although my pool was clear I assumed it must be clean, that was my first mistake. The fact the filter kept filling up with 'something' was the proof that it wasn't as clear as I thought. Now I backwash.....well, was it 4 or 5 or 6 weeks ago? I've lost track and my pressure is still on 17 (starting point 15, backwash point 20). There’s a bit of science to it but once you’ve digested it you’ll be plain sailing. Yesterday we had some friends round who commented on how amazingly clear the water was, I wasn’t going to argue with them.  

The skimmers are simply holes where the water goes off to the pump and the water level needs to be half way up the window so that it never sucks air down into the pump. There’s not much more that can go wrong with them apart from blockages. Do you know what problems the previous owners had been having? If you can’t find a test kit locally, try Sword Scientific in the UK. The service has been first class but the kits aren’t cheap (£125 with postage and a bit of haggling), Ask for Tim Schofield.

And to finish, you DO need a good test kit, you are just fighting the green algae monster in the dark without it. If you want to put up your test strip results I can point you in the direction of what might need adjusting. 

Good luck.

Just seen it was you DH59, you've probably read my story before! Oh well, if I can help I will.


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks Desiato. The issue the owners were having was with air in the system.

Using the test strips this morning, the results are withing the 'OK' bracket on the back of the bottle:
pH = 7.5 ish
FC = 3-5 ish
TA = 120 ish
Stabiliser = 100 ish

Looking in the bottom of the skimmers there is a sliding flap, which we have been told to adjust according to how much water was being drawn in. One appears to be working better than the other, causing a 'vortex' of water dragging rubbish into the basket, the other seemingly doing nothing. Adjusting the position of one skimmer flap appears to alter the performance of the other, but not by much. It's the one in the shallow end that seems to be doing the most work. Water has been maintained half way up the outlet in the pool.

We have been in the house three weeks now, and did a backwash on the first day, with the guy who has been looking after the pool for the owners while it was empty. Not sure what the criteria are for doing one!

Been looking on the Sword website, after checking your post again on TFP, but they don't mention the 7022 kit, so I'll email them.

I'm going to take some pics and start a thread on TFP and see what the situation is.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

The first thing they will tell you to do on the TFP site is to get yourself a decent test kit.  I've seen enough new posts to know how the story goes.

I had that problem with Sword scientific as well, here's the link they gave me FAS-DPD Commercial 7 Kit - 7022-01 - - LaMotte

With the skimmer, you only want to see a slight vortex and the rubbish being pulled down under water. You don't want a waterfall with air being sucked in as well. The way I balance the amount of suction on the skimmer is to see where my level is at and open or close the bottom drain valve to compensate. So if my water level is on the lower side, I open the bottom drain valve fully so as not to suck air into the skimmer but if the level is on the higher side (say after a heavy rainfall or you've left the tap running too long) I open the skimmer valve fully and close the bottom drain valve. These are near your pump and you will have these as well. Sounds like your skimmers have got secondary speed controls.....niiiiice. 

It could be a blockage between the two skimmers but more than likely the pressure isn't high enough for them both to be operating to their full potential. I've seen this at a friends house but that was before I knew what I was doing so have no idea if or how it was resolved. I'm pretty sure we've covered when to backwash before but in short, check where the needle is after a backwash and when it has risen 25%, backwash again. Mine starts at 15 so technically I should backwash at 18.75 (19) but I let it go to 20 as that saves a bit of water. I used to let it go to 30! and that was based on my gardeners recommendations, he's no longer allowed anywhere near the pool. 

The way I look at the various chemicals now is how they react to each other. Most beginners know of Chlorine and PH as that is what it says on the basic test kits you can buy in the shops. You add chlorine pucks for the chlorine and you add PH+ or PH- to get somewhere between 7.2 and 7.8. That's pretty much all anyone knows until they start digging a little deeper. 

Chlorine is directly linked to Cyanuric acid (CYA). The more CYA in the pool, the more chlorine you will need. The first problem here is that the basic test strips don’t test for CYA. I did find some test strips that did include the CYA but as I said, they were extremely inaccurate. 

The PH is linked to your Total alkalinity (TA) The higher the PH, the lower the TA needs to be. Then there is your Calcium Hardness, this one tends to chug along behind the rest as there’s not much you can do about it (if you have hard water, you have hard water!) and it doesn’t affect the others too much. The only thing you need to watch is to make sure you don’t have a combination of high CH, high TA and high PH as together they will cause problems to the pool walls. 

So looking at your test results, your FC would be fine if your CYA is 40 but of course we don’t know that. If it happens to be 40 you have just struck the jackpot as that’s exactly where you want it to be (between 30-50). The odds on that though are slim if you and the previous owners have been using chlorine tabs. It will more than likely be over 100 but that will depend on when the pool was last drained/part drained.
If your CYA is 100 what you will find is that your chlorine is ineffective and that would appear to be the case if you are having algae problems. For a pool with a CYA of 100 the guidelines on the TFP site are “Minimum FC 7, target 12’.

The PH of 7.5 is nice and smack in the middle of the 7.2 to 7.8 range but your TA is a little on the high side at 120ish (guidelines vary but you’ll often see 80 – 120). I would add a little acid to lower the TA to 100ish but this will also lower the PH. If you have some PH+ left over you could use that or aerate the pool although this can take some time and will depend on what you are using to create the bubbles). 

In summary, without the CYA reading and the CH reading, it’s hard to say where your FC and TA should be…..there ya go! Some help huh!


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Doh! Silly me, the stabiliser on your test strip will be the CYA so my guess of 100.... :first:

The TFP site will tell you to drain half your pool water to get the CYA nearer to 50 if it is an in ground plaster/concrete pool (different for other types). I was reluctant to do this but in the end bit the bullet and got mine from 160 down to 60. I now maintain a FC level of 6-7 and everything is ticking along...err...swimmingly


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for the extra info. Getting a bit complicated now, so going to post on TFP. Had issues this morning when the pump started, but got it sorted in the end, and also had a call from a local pool company following my email to Sword - they are importers of the LaMotte kits so I can get one from them (the same shop that told me I didn't need that level of kit!).

The test strips I gave the results from include the CYA, as you have realised.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

It might seem complicated to start with but once you get to grips with the terminology and how they interact with each other all will become clear....just like your pool. 

I'll keep an eye out for your posts on the TFP site, it will be interesting to see how far off their advice differs from mine.

Good luck! :fingerscrossed:


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm sure your advice will be spot on! But I need to go into more depth (so to speak!) with other issues we're having. At least I know I can get hold of the test kit here - price quoted for the 7022 is €115 +VAT.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

DH59 said:


> I'm sure your advice will be spot on! But I need to go into more depth (so to speak!) with other issues we're having. At least I know I can get hold of the test kit here - *price quoted for the 7022 is €115 +VAT.*


That´s a good price. I probably should have done more research into finding one locally but after a few ignored emails to local suppliers, I had to take the only one I could fine when I was making a whistle stop tour in the UK. I think I shall up my research for the reagents because I've needed more DPD powder (to test for chlorine) already. There was some confusion as to how many tests the pot was supposed to do as it's not mentioned on the website. Most of the other reagents say they will do 100 tests but my pot was only 20% full and only managed about 40 and that was with level spoonfuls of powder (not heaped). 

Keep a record of all your tests. Like date, time, what test you did, how many drops and the results. Also record how much bleach, acid and other chemicals you add. This will prove very useful as you keep track of how things change (I made up a simple excel sheet) and it also helped me get two free pots of DPD powder as Tim admitted there had been a mistake in their literature. I've got a picture of my pot with the spoon stuck in it to show the depth, I can let you have that to compare to yours so you can check you are getting enough powder to do 100 tests.


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

If there had been a supplier in your area, Tim would probably have asked them to contact you, as he did when I emailed him. The chap that rang me also mentioned another kit, by LaMotte, that he said was easier to use, so I need to ask about that. It is €20 more than the 7022.

We are still a bit upside down following our move to this house, but I wanted to keep tabs with the pool stuff so that it did not get too bad. Once we get the kit and get going, I will keep records. I have not added anything yet, apart from the combined tabs.

That's another issue - where do you add this stuff when required? Just pour/sprinkle it in the pool?

Anyway, going to take photos and get details of all the equipment today and see what they say on TFP.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

DH59 said:


> If there had been a supplier in your area, Tim would probably have asked them to contact you, as he did when I emailed him. The chap that rang me also mentioned another kit, by LaMotte, that he said was easier to use, so I need to ask about that. It is €20 more than the 7022.
> 
> We are still a bit upside down following our move to this house, but I wanted to keep tabs with the pool stuff so that it did not get too bad. Once we get the kit and get going, I will keep records. I have not added anything yet, apart from the combined tabs.
> 
> ...


I saw that LaMotte now sell a digital one that makes all the tests in one go, but probably very expensive


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Baywatch said:


> I saw that LaMotte now sell a digital one that makes all the tests in one go, but probably very expensive


That's the one I was referring to in my post - it's the ColorQ Pro7 and it's €135 +VAT


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

I've just had a look at the ColorQ Pro7 and I would go for that over the 7022 if I were you. The main reason, apart from the digital readout, is that the method for calculating your CYA in the 7022 leaves a lot to be desired. You may have heard of the 'disappearing black dot test"? The test tube gives better readings if your level is below 50 but above 50 and it's a bit of a lottery. I mentioned this on the TFP site and the top guys there have stopped using the black dot test as it was too unreliable and have moved over to a drop test which is what the Color Pro7 does. 

The PH colour test strip in the 7022 goes up in .2 degrees so 6.8,7.0,7.2,7.4,7.6,7.8,8.0 which is OK to start with but when you want to go from 7.2 to 7.3 it's quite hard to tell from the colour chart how close you are.

Given the choice again, I'd definitely go for the Pro7


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes, the chap that rang me said that kit was easier, especially with the calcium hardness test (I think it was) as with the hard water here I would need to add lots of drops and he said if you mis-count and have to start all over again it can get very frustrating.

I have posted the question on TFP but not had any response yet. Might just go for the ColorQ. We've had a couple of pool guys here that use the ColorQ but not sure which one it was as there are several.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

The CH test is one that you won't do very often as it's not going to change very much from your initial test. The only way to lower the hardness is to empty and refill and like you, my water is hard to start with (360) so there's not much you can do about it once you've tested it once. He's right in that you will have to count up to 30 (my CH is 560 which is 28 drops x20) but his reason is a bit lame. There are much better reasons for going with the Pro7 and not being able to count to 30 is not really one of them.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Hi DH59

Reading you posts on the TFP site, the things that are top of the list are:

Test kit, which one?
Your CYA level.
Your Chlorine level

The guy who put up two lots of test results said he leaned towards the TF100 kit but with a 3rd and 4th kit to compare against, how does he know which one is the more accurate? I read some of the reviews of the Pro7 on Amazon and it got many glowing recommendations but you say you have read some mixed reviews. I think the thing to remember is that there will never be a perfect product, everything will have something that slightly niggles someone but let's put this into context. Either of the LaMotte test kits will put you streets ahead of every other residential pool owner in your town. You will be elevated into the elite and will be to 'go to' person for pool advice amongst your friends. So don't worry too much, get either one and you'll be well ahead of the pack.


Your CYA level of 100 is probably on the low side as many have said on the TFP site, the test strips are extremely inaccurate when it comes to CYA. As I mentioned before, my test strip said I was between 30 and 50 CYA and said so several times so I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you that is it ONLY 100 (mine was 160).
Now, the big problem. You asked how to get chlorine in the pool with adding CYA. I know me and PeteandSlyv bombarded you with a lot of info weeks ago but in my two penneth worth I said “Bleach can be used to chlorinate your pool without raising the CYA” and you are about to have a big algae problem based on your current numbers. I’ll try and keep this short and as clear as possible so here goes.

Your numbers are:

CYA : 100
FC : 1
TC : 3

Based on your CYA of 100, your Free Chlorine level need to be between 7 (minimum) and 12 (Target). (See the Chlorine/CYA chart in the Pool School Index). Your Total CXhlorine of 3 means that you have a Comobined Chloine of 2 (CC) and Combined Chlorine is chlorine that has been used up killing algaue and is now floating useless in the pool until it evaporates or is flushed away. That is a clear sign that you have an algae problem and you MUST raise your Free Chlorine level as a matter of urgency as your pool is on the verge of going green. 

I can’t remember how big (square meters) you said you pool was but even without knowing, I’d dump a few bottles of 5L bleach in today ASAP. 1 x 5L bottle of bleach gives me 2.75ppm (parts per million) of chlorine. My pool is 15,500 US gallons so if yours was the same size, 4 bottles would give you 11 ppm of chlorine. My bleach says on the side “less than 5%” and 37g of chlorine per litre, from this you can work out exactly how much you need using the TFP pool calculator (don’t worry about that for now, just get some bleach in your pool.

Very soon someone on the TFP site will tell you that you will need to SLAM the pool. This is to get rid of the living algae in the pool and that would mean taking your FC level to 39 which is very high. Because it is so high they will tell you it would be better to drain half your pool first because with a CYA of 50, your SLAM level of Fc is 20ppm……still with me?

Ok, so today, get some bleach in the pool, ASAP get a test kit to get an accurate CYA reading and when you have it and it is over 100, work out how much of your pool you need to drain and refill before you start the SLAM process. (I can help you work out how much water your pool holds but one thing at a time).

Good luck!


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Sorry for the typos, had the kids calling me to jump in the pool so hit reply before checking.


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## DH59 (Feb 23, 2010)

Hi, I am trying to take it all in! I have read and digested (hopefully), and will be getting onto the case properly next week. We are still a little busy sorting boxes from the move - had to take it slowly due to the heat! I will keep this topic over on TFP, as it's probably going to get beyond the scope of this forum.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

No problem, but I would still dump a few bottles of bleach in your pool as a matter of urgency. Your Free Chlorine will disappear at a rate between between 1 and 3 a day depending on what is living in the pool so your FC has probably gone today (unless you have left the tabs in the skimmer?). If it's going to be some time before you dive in with the TFP way then it might be worth spending a few euros on a tab floater just for a week or two. Tabs in the skimmer will rot your pump and other metal work and is generally a big no no.

As you may have read with my long post on the TFP site, I had a bit of an up hill struggle trying to convince my better half that it was worth all the effort. I can tell you now that she is 100% on board and doesn't mind me spending 20 minutes a day caring for Dolores (as she has named her - my other woman  ). She can see with her own eyes that the water has never been clearer and the filter hasn't been backwashed for 6 weeks which is 5 and half weeks longer than the previous record set 4 years ago.

Stick with it, it will all be worth it in the end.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Just an odd question:

Would it be possible to se sea water in a pool? I know they did in a clinic I worked at on Tenerife.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> Just an odd question:
> 
> Would it be possible to se sea water in a pool? I know they did in a clinic I worked at on Tenerife.


I'm sure you can but the salt level will be very high. I have 4% in my pool and it is almost imperceptible.

You may suffer corrosion effects from salt on any metalwork in the system although I think there will be little as most components: pipes, joints, pumps etc are plastic.

I don't know if chlorination would work the same way or be affected by the salt level.

It will certainly be less pleasant for swimmers than a regular filtered pool.

Pete


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