# Autonomo or not?



## LesleyL (Apr 18, 2012)

Hi Everyone
My husband and I are planning a move to the Axarquia area in around 18 months time - so think its time to start getting some of my questions answered if you could help me out. We will be living on my husbands two pensions (both government pensions) but as a hobby my husband is intending to persue his interest in woodworking and I do all types of crafts from painting to crocheting & knitting. We would like to sell our wares at car boot sales or craft markets. If we do this would we have to declare ourselves as Autonomo and pay the monthly tax for this? Thanks for your help.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

LesleyL said:


> Hi Everyone
> My husband and I are planning a move to the Axarquia area in around 18 months time - so think its time to start getting some of my questions answered if you could help me out. We will be living on my husbands two pensions (both government pensions) but as a hobby my husband is intending to persue his interest in woodworking and I do all types of crafts from painting to crocheting & knitting. We would like to sell our wares at car boot sales or craft markets. If we do this would we have to declare ourselves as Autonomo and pay the monthly tax for this? Thanks for your help.


AFAIK, if you are planning to make this a profit making business then you should. However, I would say that initially, until you get your stock made and presented, then its simply a hobby. Once it becomes a business then you need to be autonomo, even if you dont make enough to cover the costs

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Are either of you of state pension age? If not you will have to think about health care provision and one way of doing that is by paying autonomo, but it's not cheap. 

Somewhere there is a thread which mentions that if you are only doing a little bit of work - sort of pocket money stuff - you don't have to pay autonomo but the criteria are pretty poorly defined.


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## LesleyL (Apr 18, 2012)

jimenato said:


> Are either of you of state pension age? If not you will have to think about health care provision and one way of doing that is by paying autonomo, but it's not cheap.
> 
> Somewhere there is a thread which mentions that if you are only doing a little bit of work - sort of pocket money stuff - you don't have to pay autonomo but the criteria are pretty poorly defined.


Thanks for the replies so far. My husband will be 60 when we move and I will be 54 so not receiving state pensions. I know that we will be able to get health cover for the first two years with the right paperwork from Newcastle and after that we intended to get private healthcare until my husband started receiving his state pension.

The idea of selling the fruits of our hobbies at car boot sales etc. was literally to give us a purpose - if you get my meaning  so no profit is intended.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Assuming you have sufficient funds/income to cover your iving costs whilst in Spain and they are sufficient to allow you to get your residencia and you are happy to pay for private health care, then I wouldn't bother getting Autonomo. But, if you want state health care then Autonomo is what you should go for.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Are either of you of state pension age? If not you will have to think about health care provision and one way of doing that is by paying autonomo, but it's not cheap.
> 
> Somewhere there is a thread which mentions that if you are only doing a little bit of work - sort of pocket money stuff - you don't have to pay autonomo but the criteria are pretty poorly defined.


yes you're right

there is a case where if you are only earning a little & irregularly then you don't have to pay autónomo - I _think _it's something like less than 600 € a month - but as you say, there is no clear info on this (that I know of, & I've looked)

I'm not sure whether you're meant to register & pay, then they pay it back if your earnings are sufficiently low, or if you just don't have to register

I'm hoping to see my gestor tomorrow when I go in to sign some papers - if he's free I'll ask him - I meant to do it in the summer & never got around to it.......

thrax does have a point though - if you do register as autonómo you will be able use the Spanish health service - it would probably cost a bit more than private insurance but at least pre-existing conditions would be covered


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## ravingraven (Oct 1, 2012)

I would like to know more about the " 600 euros or less " earnings/autonomo debate , too . I am considering Teaching English ( private ) and would need quite a few pupils to earn 250(?) for autonomo.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ravingraven said:


> I would like to know more about the " 600 euros or less " earnings/autonomo debate , too . I am considering Teaching English ( private ) and would need quite a few pupils to earn 250(?) for autonomo.


:welcome:

if I manage to get a definitive (or even close) answer I'll post it 

I suspect it's really intended for those working erratically or occasionally though, as opposed to those with regular clients


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## spanish_lad (Sep 18, 2012)

that would be interesting, i´d like to know about that too.


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## mazlester (Oct 30, 2010)

And me too!

Thanks:clap2:


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## ravingraven (Oct 1, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> if I manage to get a definitive (or even close) answer I'll post it
> 
> I suspect it's really intended for those working erratically or occasionally though, as opposed to those with regular clients


Well , the clock is ticking , me thinks its time to splash the dosh on Autonomo . From my research , you can compose a letter explaining circumstances etc and see if you can recieve exemption for special circumstances . It sounds like a lot of fluffing about. Tax returns seem simple , not much money earnt - dont pay much tax . Ya veremos !


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ravingraven said:


> Well , the clock is ticking , me thinks its time to splash the dosh on Autonomo . From my research , you can compose a letter explaining circumstances etc and see if you can recieve exemption for special circumstances . It sounds like a lot of fluffing about. Tax returns seem simple , not much money earnt - dont pay much tax . Ya veremos !


right - I've seen my gestor this morning 

he says that there is no official '600€' threshold below which you don't have to declare - if you are working AT ALL you are supposed to register as autónomo

he did say that most people earning so little wouldn't bother - but that then of course they would really be working illegally & the autónomo system is one of the reason so many do & that's (in his opinion) the main reason this country is in the mess it's in

under 30s do pay less though - I think he said 183€ a month


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## LesleyL (Apr 18, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> right - I've seen my gestor this morning
> 
> he says that there is no official '600€' threshold below which you don't have to declare - if you are working AT ALL you are supposed to register as autónomo
> 
> ...


Thanks so much xabiachica for your help and taking the trouble of asking on my behalf.
Looks like we will have to approach the authorities and explain what we are doing as suggested - although we would be very lucky to be earning more than the 600euros per month - if we are using that as a guide.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

LesleyL said:


> Thanks so much xabiachica for your help and taking the trouble of asking on my behalf.
> Looks like we will have to approach the authorities and explain what we are doing as suggested - although we would be very lucky to be earning more than the 600euros per month - if we are using that as a guide.


I had an ulterior motive 

I was recently widowed & now get a small 'widows benefit' from the UK - on the back of this I was also sent S1s for myself & my 2 teenage daughters which carry on until they have finished school - so possibly for 5 more years 

I am a self-employed teacher & my autónomo is over 270€ a month - I was _really _hoping that I could cut my hours back a lot but still work a bit - I couldn't afford to stop completely & I'd get bored anyway 

sadly it seems that if I'm to be legal I can't do that - my gestor thinks I'm daft tbh, but I'm too well known & high profile in my area to get away with it - & I wouldn't be able to sleep properly either 

so it looks like I'll have to continue to build the business again & get that e-book Spanish course finished!


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## ravingraven (Oct 1, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> right - I've seen my gestor this morning
> 
> he says that there is no official '600€' threshold below which you don't have to declare - if you are working AT ALL you are supposed to register as autónomo
> 
> ...


The autonomo system is a tad unfair . It should have a sliding-scale for new business , taking into account age and type of work. Maybe a little like the old " Enterprise Allowance Scheme " that existed in England a few moons back. Instead of giving out dosh for new business , they could cut rates of autonomo for a set period of time , one year to two perphaps and on the third year you pay full rates. I would of thought the government could do with some cash coming in , instead of nothing and a thriving black market.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ravingraven said:


> The autonomo system is a tad unfair . It should have a sliding-scale for new business , taking into account age and type of work. Maybe a little like the old " Enterprise Allowance Scheme " that existed in England a few moons back. Instead of giving out dosh for new business , they could cut rates of autonomo for a set period of time , one year to two perphaps and on the third year you pay full rates. I would of thought the government could do with some cash coming in , instead of nothing and a thriving black market.


I doubt you'd find anyone to disagree with you

except the government


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## msearson1 (Mar 25, 2010)

I think anyone is entitled to state health care if they are officially working or not , no ?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

msearson1 said:


> I think anyone is entitled to state health care if they are officially working or not , no ?


If you are paying autonomo or working with a proper contract then you are entitled to state healthcare

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

msearson1 said:


> I think anyone is entitled to state health care if they are officially working or not , no ?


... only if you are paying into the system in some way (UK pension, work contract, SS payments) or if you are destitute (have to be able to prove this by showing tax returns and bank accounts).

In the UK it's based on 'residence', here it's based on 'paying in'.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... only if you are paying into the system in some way (UK pension, work contract, SS payments) or if you are destitute (have to be able to prove this by showing tax returns and bank accounts).
> 
> In the UK it's based on 'residence', here it's based on 'paying in'.


unless you've been registered as resident & making tax returns since before April 24th this year


apparently...........


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## msearson1 (Mar 25, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> ... only if you are paying into the system in some way (UK pension, work contract, SS payments) or if you are destitute (have to be able to prove this by showing tax returns and bank accounts).
> 
> In the UK it's based on 'residence', here it's based on 'paying in'.



So if I'm sending UK pension contributions home then I get healthcare here in Spain ? ( even though I'm not autonomo and don't have any contract here ? )


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

msearson1 said:


> So if I'm sending UK pension contributions home then I get healthcare here in Spain ? ( even though I'm not autonomo and don't have any contract here ? )



If you are working in the UK or claiming a UK state pension then you fill out the S1 form from Newcastle and you're then entitled to the reciprocal agreement between the two countries

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

msearson1 said:


> So if I'm sending UK pension contributions home then I get healthcare here in Spain ? ( even though I'm not autonomo and don't have any contract here ? )



What exactly do you mean by "sending UK pension contributions home"? Are you saying that you are still making voluntary NI contributions in UK or are you paying into a private pension plan?

What I meant was, if you are in receipt of a state pension then ....... as Joe says, in this case send form S1 to DWP in UK and they will help you with state health care in Spain.


If you are not in receipt of UK state pension, then you need to go private.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

LesleyL said:


> Hi Everyone
> My husband and I are planning a move to the Axarquia area in around 18 months time - so think its time to start getting some of my questions answered if you could help me out. We will be living on my husbands two pensions (both government pensions) but as a hobby my husband is intending to persue his interest in woodworking and I do all types of crafts from painting to crocheting & knitting. We would like to sell our wares at car boot sales or craft markets. If we do this would we have to declare ourselves as Autonomo and pay the monthly tax for this? Thanks for your help.


This may be helpful but please double check the info as I can't remember how long ago I found or was given the link!! Last year I think.
Actually it was June 2010 and posted by *Pesky Wesky
This is the post http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...spain/50639-how-easy-do-business-spain-2.html

*Guide to Spain's autonomo system

It suggests that if you are selling the appropriate merchandise you pay 55% of the full amount if selling in a market or on a stall! Not a shop! But check if this has changed as not sure that page has been updated from 2010!
A lot of info on that site plus it lists the Spanish minimum wage which if you earn above you have to be autonomo etc!

Also on the link to the post above back in June 2010 it was stated you can sign on and off autonomo. Not very practical for some lines of work but perhaps in theory it could be a way to reduce your payments if work is on the sporadic side!
I want to work self employed part time in Spain as I do here but the system there isn't really part time work friendly when self employed! I guess there are a few ways to bend the rules a little but I would rather not.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

This covers most autonomo situations.

Guide to Spain's autonomo system


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> This covers most autonomo situations.
> 
> Guide to Spain's autonomo system


Same as the link I posted Gus, great minds think alike


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Muddy said:


> Same as the link I posted Gus, great minds think alike


thank you both

I have a feeling it's not in the FAQs so I'll put it there


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks for that link. That has just helped me answer a question.


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## Ozzieone (Feb 17, 2012)

Hi There, 
Has anyone registered as an autonomo? I am trying to find out exactly how much you have to pay each month, I'm thinking of opening a shop and this will be crucial info. I did hear about a co-op that you can pay into that makes it cheaper and also includes payments into a pension, I think they are called Merca Saetabis, but not sure if that is only for stallholders/market traders.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Ozzieone said:


> Hi There,
> Has anyone registered as an autonomo? I am trying to find out exactly how much you have to pay each month, I'm thinking of opening a shop and this will be crucial info. I did hear about a co-op that you can pay into that makes it cheaper and also includes payments into a pension, I think they are called Merca Saetabis, but not sure if that is only for stallholders/market traders.



Autonomo payments or around 270 euros for each and every month irrespective of how much you earn. These payments go towards health care and pension and lots more I'm sure.


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## Ozzieone (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks Snikpoh, much appreciated. 

and thanks for the link, should have been there first! Great info and lots of it.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I asked this in another thread but this one is more suitable..



Pazcat said:


> I have a question regarding this, at what point are you legally considered self employed?
> 
> Is there a minimum amount you can do or sell before you are considered a trader?
> 
> ...


Is there an autonomo cut off?


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