# Seeking a new life in America



## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi, I am 20 year old male that seek a new life in America. I have previously lived in California 7 years of my life upon moving back to Norway. In this period I lived in California under my fathers green card (which is now expired). I had no citizenship at the time and I still do not hold any form for citizenship besides Norwegian.

My sisters are US born citizens but they both are under 18 and do not live in the US at this time of being.

My job skills are within Computers and IT and I have several years experience working in medium sized companies working with open source and network solutions.

My english is concidered to be at a adequate level both oral skills and written skills.
I urge to move back very much and I feel that it is my home. Living here does not satisfy me.

What are my chances? I know I can apply for a green card but that seems like a shot in the dark. I do not have a specialized skill of any sort to obtain a work visa. Sponsorship is out of the question because I do not have any close relatives living in the US.

What are my chances, does anyone know?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

At the moment, your chances really don't look very good, but if you take a longer-term view, there are things you could do to improve your chances. If you have "several years experience" in computers and IT at the age of 20, I'm assuming you don't have a university degree.

In the US it is more and more necessary to have a university degree in order to qualify for most "professional" level jobs, including those in IT. Having a degree would give you a better chance at a work visa - and also buy you a bit of time, during which perhaps the visa requirements might loosen up a little. 

It might be possible to go over as a student - but that's the expensive way to go as you'll have to pay full tuition and you will be restricted in how much you can work while studying. Consider, however, doing a year or two of graduate level work in the US - which could then lead to an internship or a job offer when you are done.
Cheers,
Bev


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thank you for the quick reply. I've thought about 1 year school maybe, but it's an expensive thing to do. I am not sure what I should do about this. I'm not sure what I want to be honost, I'd like to leave everything here but I'm not sure if I should do that or not.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

The US is very, very focused on a university degree (usually referred to as a college degree). We do not have lots of certificate programs, and the certifications we do have do not weigh heavily, except where licensing is required.

I agree that your chances don't look good, as you will be competing with people with plenty of experience and the appropriate degrees. You can only get a work visa if the employer is unable to hire someone in the US. So unless you have some unusual niche that you work in, you won't be worth the time and money required to get a visa. Also, I doubt anyone will bring over someone who is under 21 years old, which is the age of legal adulthood.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

I've been thinking about attending college in California, but these things cost a lot!
Not only that but I don't know if I'd have a better chance getting a job after finishing college.
If attending college it would be under a student visa. Which would allow me to work on campus etc. You probably know the visa rules better than me.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi again, I just wanted to ask if I might have any chance reclaiming my lost citizenship?
Since leaving the US was never my intention and that it never was under my control.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

How did you lose your citizenship? The only ways to lose it are to formally renounce it with the US State Department or to join the army of an unfriendly nation. So if you were a citizen, you are still a citizen. But, in your first post you stated that you had never been a citizen. We need accurate information to give you any help.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Well I don't think I ever became a citizen.. I don't have any certificate or anything. Do you automatically become one after 5 years? In 1991 my family appliedthe IMMIGRANT VISA AND ALIEN REGISTRATION form for me and I moved over on the AA-3 visa. (Says expires 1992). I don't know which form for visa I then had.

My father had h1b. (My sisters born in the states have citizenship) Would this be a 100% citizenship if he was a h1b and not a citizen?
If he was a citizen I could be able to reclaim.

I did not have the h-4 visa either, because I had a SSN (still have it and it is still valid).


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there is no form of "automatic" citizenship in the US other than being born on US soil or having at least one US citizen parent who meets certain residency criteria.

Your father never had a green card. (I wondered about that - green cards don't expire.) He was there on a visa that gave him (and you) no rights of citizenship. Your sisters lucked out, being born in the US, but that doesn't give you any advantage in the visa situation - unless one of them was resident in the US and was willing to sponsor you.

You can always try the Visa lottery program. I think Norway is eligible for the lottery - though you should check for yourself. (Also, don't bother paying any intermediary to file your application for you. It won't improve your chances and it will just cost you BIG TIME.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Well he has a green card that is for sure. (Permanent Resident Card). My social security number is still valid. I should be able to reclaim citizenship if he was a citizen, but he was a green card holder. I am not sure about the reclaim laws regarding green card holders.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

OK, but a green card is not citizenship. For that, he would have had to go through a separate process after having lived in the US for 5 years or more - and you would have probably been made a citizen at that time. You have no "claim" based on his having held a green card. (There are many expats in the US who do not or cannot take US citizenship, so they simply remain there on green card status their whole lives.)

Your social security number is more likely a Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) and does not entitle you to work in the US, nor to any benefits. The format for the two numbers is identical. Hang onto that number, as it can be converted to a SS number when and if you finally manage to move to the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> Well he has a green card that is for sure. (Permanent Resident Card). My social security number is still valid. I should be able to reclaim citizenship if he was a citizen, but he was a green card holder. I am not sure about the reclaim laws regarding green card holders.


If you had a green card (I-551) when you left, there is a chance that you could claim that you never intended to abandon your permanent residency and you could reclaim it. You are not going to manage this without legal representation and this will be expensive. Try Stuart I. Folinsky, Attorney At Law - Home -- abandonment is one of his specialties.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

EDIT: My father had the AA1 Permanent Resident Card (Green Card) Expires 2009. Furthermore I have a bad feeling about reclaiming my residency regarding the costs of this process. Attorney's like these cost 300-400 USD an hour. Just to get an evaluation it would cost me at least 400 dollars.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> I don't know if I had a green card, from what my father says I had a AA2 visa like my mother. I will have to talk to someone about that I guess.


Without having a green card, it's futile. Look in your passport for an I-551 stamp. Presence means you were once a permanent resident; absence means nothing. 

A visas are diplomatic -- but if your father were a diplomat, your sisters wouldn't have acquired citizenship under jus soli -- so you have me confused there.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Without having a green card, it's futile. Look in your passport for an I-551 stamp. Presence means you were once a permanent resident; absence means nothing.
> 
> A visas are diplomatic -- but if your father were a diplomat, your sisters wouldn't have acquired citizenship under jus soli -- so you have me confused there.


AA1,AA2, AA3 visas are old now. My father simply had a permanent resident card ( green card).


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> AA1,AA2, AA3 visas are old now. My father simply had a permanent resident card ( green card).


If he had one, you would probably have had one, too.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

zarya0 said:


> Well I don't think I ever became a citizen.. I don't have any certificate or anything. Do you automatically become one after 5 years? In 1991 my family appliedthe IMMIGRANT VISA AND ALIEN REGISTRATION form for me and I moved over on the AA-3 visa. (Says expires 1992). I don't know which form for visa I then had.
> 
> My father had h1b. (My sisters born in the states have citizenship) Would this be a 100% citizenship if he was a h1b and not a citizen?
> If he was a citizen I could be able to reclaim.
> ...


This is all very confusing. First you said your father had a green card, then you say he had H1B - which is not at all a permanent visa.

The AA-1 visa, from what I can tell, seems to have been the forerunner of the current "diversity" lottery. But if he moved you all back to Norway after seven years, I suspect he forfeited his immigrant status and any claim you would have at this late date to an immigrant visa. But contact the closest US Consulate and ask. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> But if he moved you all back to Norway after seven years, I suspect he forfeited his immigrant status and any claim you would have at this late date to an immigrant visa. But contact the closest US Consulate and ask.


Being out of the country does not necessarily forfeit your permanent resident status.

The US Consulate is generally not a good place for immigration advice.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Fatbrit said:


> Being out of the country does not necessarily forfeit your permanent resident status.
> 
> The US Consulate is generally not a good place for immigration advice.


Being out of the country doesn't necessarily forfeit your permanent resident status, but leaving the country to establish residence elsewhere for more than a few years or so could well do.

The Consulate is at least a place to start. Unless you've got a spare $300 - 400 to engage an immigration attorney for what could turn out to be a wild goose chase. A visa doesn't guarantee you'll be allowed to enter the US, either, but it's step one in going over there.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Being out of the country doesn't necessarily forfeit your permanent resident status, but leaving the country to establish residence elsewhere for more than a few years or so could well do.
> 
> The Consulate is at least a place to start. Unless you've got a spare $300 - 400 to engage an immigration attorney for what could turn out to be a wild goose chase. A visa doesn't guarantee you'll be allowed to enter the US, either, but it's step one in going over there.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Time out is not an overriding factor with abandonment. You could be (and people have been!) out for 10 years and not lose it; you could be out for a week and that's the end of it. Much more to do with your intent and actions in pursuit of that intent.

The OP ( if indeed he did have it!) has minor age on his side -- dunno whether it's 21 or 18 since US immigration law is rather bipolar on this one.

The consulate will tell him to fill in a returning resident's petition, take his money, then promptly reject it.

I really don't know whether he would be successful but I do know that all may not be lost. The link I gave him is to an immigration lawyer who writes on this very subject on the web. I do know that he will not find out whether he has a case worth pursuing without such legal advice from a specialist in abandonment issues.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

I am very sorry for being so confusing about the whole thing. My father had green card and his spouse and kids (along with me had AA-3 AA-1 accordingly).

Maybe should take a quick call to the consulate.

Please tell me your thoughts and tips on all this.  It's greatly appreciated.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> I am very sorry for being so confusing about the whole thing. My father had green card and his spouse and kids (along with me had AA-3 AA-1 accordingly).
> 
> Maybe should take a quick call to the consulate.
> 
> Please tell me your thoughts and tips on all this.  It's greatly appreciated.


Looks like an immigrant visa to me. Read the stamps in your passport -- the one from when you first arrived in the US.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Old passports can be a hard thing to track down, I actually did not get a passport of my own until I was 16 or 17 years old. I always traveled on my mothers or fathers passport. (When going to and back from the US) Both their passports have been renewed. And the old ones have been delivered back.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> Old passports can be a hard thing to track down, I actually did not get a passport of my own until I was 16 or 17 years old. I always traveled on my mothers or fathers passport. (When going to and back from the US) Both their passports have been renewed. And the old ones have been delivered back.


If you were a permanent resident, there will be records.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

And who and where could I check these records?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> And who and where could I check these records?


You need a US immigration lawyer, more specifically one specialized in abandonment cases with a proven track record. A good lawyer will give you a consultation at a nominal fee to tell you whether it is worth pursuing. This is not a DIY job!

If you want to DIY, either apply for a returning resident's petition at your local US consulate, or fly to America, tell the POE inspector you are a permanent resident, and s/he'll put you in front of an immigration judge where you can argue your case. With either option, I'd bet money that you'll lose without a professional preparing your case.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Alright, I've spoked to a magnificent man @ Bernard P. Wolfsdorf in LA. He listened to my story and I might have a chance her guys.

Regarding me not having a green card I am sorry! I do have a green card.. My father has forgotten that I did since it was my mom that took care of these things. (They are divorced now). My green card is of course expired (probably in 2001). I still have a minor chance considering the fact that I'm soon to be 20 years old.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Alright, I'm trying to find all old school documents. Everything from Preschool to Elementary School. To document my stay. Also I have found all my old school records here in Norway which documents my stay here. I will be calling the consulate this week and find out when I could get an appointment. 

I've got an appointment with another attorney today, well more like night for me  but it will be nice to get another point of few. Most of the attorney's I've called so far agree that I have a chance.


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## badbornc (Apr 29, 2008)

I am in Ghana and want to gain a visa to america


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Consider this thread closed as I've gained the knowledge I need to continue my quest ^^. 
Thanks again,
Ian


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Congratulations on finding all the information and good luck! We'd love to have you report back about how it all went.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Yeah I will. I've found an attorney whom I really appreciate. He seems to be one of the best lawyers out there for my case.

This is what I'm going to do:

Fly from Norway on a tourist visa.
Enter the US on my expired Green Card. ( Immigration officer will probably want to send me home) * They are OBLIGATED to check their records to see if I used to be or am a LPR).
I'm also entitled to a hearing in front of a Immigration Judge. Since European flights land in the evening / night I'd probably have to spend the night at the airport. No big deal for me.

I will not be held as soon as they find out I used to have a green card. (I do have it physically). After that I will probably be sent to secondary. After having the hearing with the immigration judge they'd either allow me to renew my green card, or deny.
If they deny it I can appeal. Anyways they would give me a temporary I-551 so I could work and live their meanwhile.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> Yeah I will. I've found an attorney whom I really appreciate. He seems to be one of the best lawyers out there for my case.
> 
> This is what I'm going to do:
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan to me. Being young and single probably makes it much easier. Good luck!


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Being 20 years old and now single is great. I've reconnected with many of my friends over in California the last year. They are all really excited if I can go back I tell you.

I'm eagerly waiting for my "future" attorney to send me a email with what we're going to do and the prices.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Start working a second job to take care of your attorney.

Someone has to add a drop of vinegar to the punch. 
Son is 20 wants to return to US, GC was based on father's GC which expired. When?
I would really like to know how this story ends.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twostep said:


> Start working a second job to take care of your attorney.
> 
> Someone has to add a drop of vinegar to the punch.
> Son is 20 wants to return to US, GC was based on father's GC which expired. When?
> I would really like to know how this story ends.


Think it's irrelevant how he obtained the GC -- unless it was by fraud which it obviously wasn't.

Think he has a good case -- but I agree it could get expensive.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thank you guys for the nice replies.  I am getting two jobs, well I do have two jobs but I haven't been called out for the second one yet, as it is a job where I have to work when needed.

I obtained my green card from my father ( he won the diversity lottery)
My green card expired in 2002, at least that is what the card itself says.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Think it's irrelevant how he obtained the GC -- unless it was by fraud which it obviously wasn't.
> 
> Think he has a good case -- but I agree it could get expensive.



He will hopefuly keep us posted.

Some ambulance chasers charge 1500/hr and get it in immigration.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Well my attorney, or should I call him my attorney? I'm not sure, but the attorney I'm going to use charges $200 an hour.

I don't know how much I'll end up having to use though, does anybody have an estimate?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

You may want to contact him/her for an estimate and find out what charges for services outside the office are.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

I have contacted him.  He said he would give me a estimate, over email.
I'm waiting for that email now.  I'm so excited. 
I really like him, he seems like a real nice guy. Also a very funny guy indeed. Makes the whole situation easier. 

He told me to send him an email with scans of my green card etc. So I scanned my green card front and back and my alien registration paper along with all of the information I have at this point. I honestly want to give him a call and hear what's up, but again I don't want to come on too strong and nag either. 

I guess I'll just have to patiant.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

a) You are his paycheck! Why should you come on too strong.
b) Did you check him out?
c) Keep personal feelings out - he charges you by the hour if he is working or chatting.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

a) You are his paycheck! Why should you come on too strong. (True that!)
b) Did you check him out? (Yeah I've talked to him a bit)
c) Keep personal feelings out - he charges you by the hour if he is working or chatting.
Would he charge me if I just called and chatted with him as well? We didn't talk just straight business .


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> a) You are his paycheck! Why should you come on too strong. (True that!)
> b) Did you check him out? (Yeah I've talked to him a bit)
> c) Keep personal feelings out - he charges you by the hour if he is working or chatting.
> Would he charge me if I just called and chatted with him as well? We didn't talk just straight business .


Time to wake up.
Did you check his credentials? A good starting point is martindale.com
He bills by the hour - 200 $/hr.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

I've checked martindale yes, didn't quite understand it though 
I kind of thought they would inform you if they would bill you by the hour by phone.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

You should have a written agreement with your attorney spelling out what he does and for what he will charge what.
How did you get your instructions to fly to the US?
PM his name if you want to - I will run him through some searches. 

Something does not ring. It may be just a feeling.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Regarding the written agreement, I do not believe we've come to that point yet.
He was going to look over my case and see what we could work with first then find out how much it was going to cost so to say, then email me.

He is a attorney which is said by many people on different immigration forums to be good attorney.

Also about the "instructions", he didn't really give me instructions per say, it was more of what he would do if he was me sort of thing. We chatted about on how I will do it when we do it, if you understand.

He never instructed me, well he hasn't yet.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Well, at least he is legit, CA Bar and was part of a team winning the "rice cup".
1 down 2 to go.
Unless you have a contract you are on your own so to say. When it comes to money it will be his word against yours.
Unless I am mistaken - you do not yet have a client/attorney relationship. Fat - where are you???
His plan - check it out first. I do not know enough about immigration law. Email him to "summarize your conversation". This is just an idea!!!


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Even with a free review of a situation, the attorney-client privilege applies, not that it should matter much for an immigration case.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, I guess I'll call him on monday.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Just got off the phone with the attorney. I've decided now that I am going to fly over early next year. I'd be looking at around $4,000 in lawyer expenses, which I can survive. Especially when being able to work. I am working my ass off at the moment to earn and save as much as I can.

I am really exited about this, I spoke with my father today and he is also going to the US on vacation most likely around June, hopefully earlier! (Could be nice to have my father by my side).


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

It's great that you are making progress!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Good luck! Please keep us posted.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Just wanting to let you guys know I'll be coming over earlier than June. Boring to wait that long for nothing.

My goal is February -- March, somewhere around. I'm trying to get my father to help me document our stay, but he seems unwilling. It's hard convincing him to actually use time to help me.  

Anyways, I believe I know what I need:

* IRS tax filings, lease agreements / Proof of filing tax returns?
* Car insurance lease papers
* Credit Card statement
* Bank account statement
* Employment record

Seems that when our family moved here his company opened up a new branch in Norway.
If our reason to move to Norway was to work for the newly opened branch my fathers residency shouldn't be affected? At least this is what I've read.

But again, this is me trying to get my green card back, not him. I've learned that I am entitled to a hearing before an Immigration judge. Also entitled to temporary evidence of permanent residency (temporary i-551?) in which also includes temporary employment authorization while the case is pending.


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Alright I've got some new news on the process. I just received a letter from my fathers old company basically explaining that they relocated us to Norway to the Norwegian branch etc and how wonderful of a employee he was. <-- Good stuff. Anyhow I couldn't sleep last night and I sat up thinking about the whole thing. 

Why couldn't my father try to get his green card back? It has not expired and he has not worked since 2005 (when his company cut down on employees) and since then he's been ill not being able to work because of his back problem. Recently both my paternal grandparents died and it's been hard on us all. 


I'm thinking he could try to go for a SB-1 Returning Resident visa or doing the same thing as I'm going to do in March. Since I am still a minor (under 21) he could apply for a new green card for me, even though he might not decide to stay in the US.

What do you guys think about this?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Have you asked your father why he decided to stay in Norway? You say he is physically not able to work. How would he make a living in the US?


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

twostep, I' ve asked my father and he said because it was more convenient. Well hopefully he will become better. Honestly I don't know. I've heard that the waiting time for me if he would apply for me as well would be up to 6 years. ?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

zarya0 said:


> twostep, I' ve asked my father and he said because it was more convenient. Well hopefully he will become better. Honestly I don't know. I've heard that the waiting time for me if he would apply for me as well would be up to 6 years. ?


Translated - he does not want to talk about it. Do you feel comfortable with the attorney you picked?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

zarya0 said:


> twostep, I' ve asked my father and he said because it was more convenient. Well hopefully he will become better. Honestly I don't know. I've heard that the waiting time for me if he would apply for me as well would be up to 6 years. ?


Don't know about the waiting time for the GC, but one issue for your father is health insurance. It can be difficult (to impossible) to find health insurance in the US with a "pre-existing condition." 

For Medicare, he'd need a certain period of contributions to qualify (5 years maybe?), but even then there are various fees to be paid (for parts B and D). You may want to check into that before you try and talk him into going back.
Cheers,
Bev


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Very comfortable with the attorney I've chosen yes, very much so. Haven't found anyone else so far that treats me with so much respect and has helped me to such a great extent.

I'm considering getting my father to go down to the Embassy in Norway to file for a SB-1 visa, just for the heck of it. I will fly in to the US early march and my attorney will help me from there.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Don't know about the waiting time for the GC, but one issue for your father is health insurance. It can be difficult (to impossible) to find health insurance in the US with a "pre-existing condition."
> 
> For Medicare, he'd need a certain period of contributions to qualify (5 years maybe?), but even then there are various fees to be paid (for parts B and D). You may want to check into that before you try and talk him into going back.
> Cheers,
> Bev



Medicare.gov - Medicare Eligibility Tool (Eligibility Questions)

I missed the bus somewhere. The father worked in the US then transferred to Norway, got laid off, has medical issues, has been unemployed since 2005, let his GC expire and decided to stay in Norway. What is the original nationality of the family? Why is the poster so set on getting his GC even by "getting my father to go down to the Embassy in Norway to file for a SB-1 visa, just for the heck of it". Does anyone see where the father qualifies for SB-1? I do not see the intend to return nor a protracted stay beyond his control. 

What does the poster expect to find in CA with no education, no job in today's market?


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## zarya0 (Jun 23, 2008)

Just for mentioning it, I do have education and a degree. I'm planning on going to school as well to get a bachelors degree after setting myself up financially.


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