# Is there enough work for entertainers. If so, which areas are best?



## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Hello,

I am a professional Swing/Rat Pack singer looking to move to Spain. I'm bored with singing at English weddings (I've done over 500) and fancy more cabaret type work.

My act is pretty classy and I am very good at what I do (just for clarification, not to brag) I'm not your average pub singer.

My wife and I have money to buy a property outright and we're wondering how easy or difficult would it be for me to find enough work to live and pay the bills etc.

I can see that things are very difficult over there and that there is a lot of unemployment, but are tourist numbers dwindling too? Do hotels and other entertainment venues still operate and provide entertainment? 

Are there opportunities for someone like me to get work? I don't speak Spanish yet (we intend to learn of course) but my act doesn't need a lot of Spanish if I'm performing to internationals or Brits. 

We are considering Costa Blanca (Javea, Calpe or Torrevieja), Almeria (Mojacar, Vera), Costa Del Sol. I worry about crime levels I hear about in the Costa Del Sol. Are they mirrored further north? I mean is it the same level everywhere?

If anyone can suggest the best areas (if there are any) from their experience, that would be great.

We are travelling out in two weeks time (24/April/2012) to view properties in the first two areas. This will be our second trip this year. I'm going to check out the work situation very keenly on this trip too.

We can see that property prices have dropped greatly, and are likely to continue a little further at least. With this in mind, if we buy now, I would be negotiating very aggressively, to take that further drop into account. I know this would seem harsh to those who are having to sell but, if we make the move, we'd be foolish to knowlingly and blindly walk into a future negative equity situation.

I feel that, if we can buy a property at the right price and I can get enough work to make a decent living, that it's worth a shot.

Has Spanish life changed for all British Expats? Are any Expats, who are not struggling financially, still enjoying life in Spain and glad they made the move?

I'm expecting life to be different. That's one of the reasons for moving. But is it so unbearable? Some of you must still love it. If you do, what's the secret? Is it simply being financially secure? Are the unfortunate negatives such as potholes, irregular rubbish collection, beggars, crime levels etc., enough to make you want to go back to the UK?

This a brilliant forum, by the way. It's very informative and is making me pay a great deal of attention to more than simply following the sun.

Thank you.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

cliveb999 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a professional Swing/Rat Pack singer looking to move to Spain. I'm bored with singing at English weddings (I've done over 500) and fancy more cabaret type work.
> 
> ...


A few years ago you could probably walk into any bar or music venue and pull off a gig but the truth now is that its so very hard (I know people in your business). There are tons of entertainers with no work and ttons of bars who need entertainers but have no money - lots of supply and no demand = low pay!

The truth is that there are gigs going if you go to some of the busier areas like Benidown, Torevieja but its going to be so much harder to get the work - excellent performers working for peanuts, and many bars taking on the most awful acts jsut because they are cheap.

There are still expats here who live a good life but far less , far far less!

My advise would be to come over, spend a few weeks going round venues, talking with the owners, and seeing what you can get. That's the only way to know if it will work for yoU! Good luck!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi there, and welcome!

Please don't be put off the CDS by reports of crime. It is no less safe to live there than in other regions you mention (the Marbella mafiosi keep themselves to themselves ... )Wherever there are wealthy-looking foreigners there will be opportunistic crime, but just use your commonsense and you'll be fine.

As for getting work as an entertainer, I guess if you are good (and have a good agent) you might find something in a holiday resort, but it is likely to be poorly paid and seasonal. The financial situation has hit everyone, and people tend to stay at home more. 


> I'm expecting life to be different. That's one of the reasons for moving. But is it so unbearable? Some of you must still love it. If you do, what's the secret? Is it simply being financially secure? Are the unfortunate negatives such as potholes, irregular rubbish collection, beggars, crime levels etc., enough to make you want to go back to the UK?


The negatives you mention are all found in the UK! I still love it here because of the scenery, the climate, the food, the language, the _naturaleza _but above all the people. But I don't live in an expat area, so I can't comment on life there. 

We are financially secure because we own our house outright and have a small pension so don't need to work. The recent huge price rises for petrol and electricity are scary, but I know we can live on very little here, if necessary. I wouldn't contemplate returning to the UK.


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you Steve.

I guess I won't need to earn as much as I do to survive in the UK, as I won't have a mortgage but I would need to earn something to pay for everything else. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get work but I wouldn't be happy simply doing the "fish and chip" circuit.

I've heard that there are some awful acts out there. I've seen a few too.

You're right about coming out to knock on doors etc. That's what I plan to do.

Another concern of mine is: would my wife be happy living there? We would need to buy a villa so that we have a proper family home for us to rattle around in. An apartment, although cheaper, simply wouldn't do long term. She doesn't speak Spanish either and I wouldn't want her to have to go out to work. We'd go with the mindset that I would get enough work to support us because there is no other work available anyway.

Thanks again.

Clive


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Hi there, and welcome!
> 
> Please don't be put off the CDS by reports of crime. It is no less safe to live there than in other regions you mention (the Marbella mafiosi keep themselves to themselves ... )Wherever there are wealthy-looking foreigners there will be opportunistic crime, but just use your commonsense and you'll be fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply.

I'm pleased that you are still enjoying life and living in Spain.

We would own our home outright but we have no pension so I would need to work. We're in our 50's so our kids are all grown up.

I guess we need to be able to calculate the difference between our likely annual outgoings and my realistic probable annual income.

Thanks again. No doubt I shall have some other thoughts and questions.

Clive


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cliveb999 said:


> Thank you Steve.
> 
> I guess I won't need to earn as much as I do to survive in the UK, as I won't have a mortgage but I would need to earn something to pay for everything else. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get work but I wouldn't be happy simply doing the "fish and chip" circuit.
> 
> ...


I was at a benefit last night, for one of our local entertainers who is seriously ill

there were at least a dozen _excellent_ singers, comedians, magicians & other types of entertainers giving their time for free last night

but that wasn't even a majority of the local entertainers - just a small percentage of them & Jávea isn't that big a place

the very best of them will get maybe 2 or 3 gigs a week in the season - but they are long established here - newbies would have to obvioulsy build up a following - & there really aren't _that_ many venues - I know some of them get no work at all 6 months of the year & most of them - even the best - have a 'day job' labouring or similar

don't forget also that from the moment you start to work you will have to pay +/- 250€ a month self employment NI/autonomo...... before you even pay tax........ and even if you don't make that much in a month


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cliveb999 said:


> Thank you Steve.
> 
> I guess I won't need to earn as much as I do to survive in the UK, as I won't have a mortgage but I would need to earn something to pay for everything else. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get work but I wouldn't be happy simply doing the "fish and chip" circuit.
> 
> ...


You would have to be autonomo which is around 250€ a month - otherwise you'd not get any healthcare. Thats would be the first thing. ~As for entertainment, I lived in Benalmadena and met a few musicians who were fighting for work - literally!. A new person on the scene wouldnt be welcome and I'd be surprised if you could earn enough to pay that autonomo. In Nerja, the musicians tend to do open mike nights in different bars every night. They tend to be folk who dont need to earn, which is just as well, cos they have to pay a euro to join in lol. There seems to be a lack of proper gigs!! I also have a friend who is an agent for the hotels on the costa del sol, I'm not sure he'd want to take on any more acts and he supplements his income by renting out PA systems. 

That all said, I also know of one chap who is doing well, he's a one man singing act, he's single and has been in Spain doing this for 10 years. I believe he makes around 50€ a night. But he has the contacts, speaks spanish fluently and the knowledge of the system


Jo xxx


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you for your replies xabiachica and Jo.

I can see that it is going to be very difficult to find work in such competitive environment. That, in itself doesn't worry me because I have that in the UK. That's normal, although I'm not ignoring the fact that it might be tougher there. It all depends on how much I want to live in Spain and how hard I'm willing to work to make a success of it.

Yes, I am aware of the 250€ autonomo.

I do appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. It's vital information and it is certainly making me take this very seriously.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Just a thought, the larger Canary Islands are experiencing somewhat of a tourist boom. Now I know this location is nearly one thousand miles away from the Costas, but we are still part of Spain, and the tourist season is year round!

Perhaps you should take a fact finding visit to the south of the larger islands, that is where most of the tourists are.

Hope this helps, good luck,

Hepa


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

It certainly wouldn't be an easy way to earn a living, but perhaps it isn't very easy anyway.

Perhaps there would be more chance of success away from the Costas because your product isn't restricted to the UK immigrant market, is it?

Oh, and the demos should be making their way to agents and possible venues now!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Unfortunately, the amount of effort one is prepared to put into finding work is of little account when you are competing with very many others in the same situation who are also puttinjg in a lot of effort...

Like many contented people here, we took early retirement and don't need to find work. We are not considering a return to the UK. However....I read in a report in the FT recently that one-third of British immigrants have returned to the UK, presumably either because of poor employment prospects or, if retired, because their pensions/investments were no longer sufficient to enable them to live a care-free life.

Property prices have indeed dropped but an Open Europe report recently suggested a further fall of around 35% was likely in the next few years. 

We live in a fairly large villa with pool in a quiet seaside village between Marbella and Estepona.
There are two of us and a large dog and we live a comfortable but fairly modest lifestyle. For our utilities alone we need at least 3 - 400 euros a month. Added to that are the usual insurances, car tax, repairs, health care -we are registered with the excellent regional health service but my partner prefers private provision - fuel for your car, the usual replacement of domestic objects: everything you had to do in the UK, in short.

Clothes, dining out, trips and holidays...and that's before you eat!

The cost of all of the above will vary depending on your tastes and what you have been used to in the UK but I would estimate you would need an assured income of at least 1500 euros a month, depending on the amount of capital and any income derived from it you may have at your disposal.

I cannot see that kind of income at this time resulting from your line of work. 

As for the other factors you mention: Spain is a developed country with the fourth largest economy in the EU and the ten or twelve largest in the world, depending on the source. It has far superior refuse collection than the UK, a functioning and efficient health service, better infrastructure in some respects than other EU states and a crime rate which, whilst no worse than in some parts of the UK, because of high unemployment is a factor to be taken into account in some areas.

If you have the means to support a comfortable life style, Spain is a wonderful place to live. The economic situation is approaching crisis point and it's hard to predict an improvement for many years to come. So...if you need to work to pay your bills, I wouldn't advise a move at this time.

But I'm no expert...it's just my opinion and I have frequently been accused of being uber-cautious and prudent.


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you for suggesting the Canaries Hepa. I've never been there but I have heard that tourism is on the increase there.

I shall have a serious think about it and look into it.

With regards to working away from the Costas "Pesky Wesky", I guess I would be making an assumption (possibly incorrectly) that that is where the bulk of my work would come from. I have heard that there are corporate events and other work elsewhere, just like in the UK and other countries of course. Again, I shall look into that.

A good starting point would be to source contact details for relevant agents. 

Can anyone help me with names/details of entertainment agencies?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

We were working as a duo 12 years ago in the southern CDS - and to be honest I'm glad we're not trying to do it now. 

One point I should add to the others (which I agree with) they tend to expect blood here. Venues are open until the small hours and you will often expected to entertain for up to four hours.


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

There's no doubt about it. The income to support oneself sufficiently is paramount. As with every country of course, but more so if it's not your native country i.e. the UK

If I create a situation that matches yours "mrypg9" that would do. That's something to aim at.

Thank you jimenato. I'm aware of the nightly blood donation required. That doesn't appeal, I must admit so I shall be checking out the corporate scene too and also see if there is more upmarket work, away from the costas, as suggested.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

cliveb999 said:


> With regards to working away from the Costas "Pesky Wesky", I guess I would be making an assumption (possibly incorrectly) that that is where the bulk of my work would come from. I have heard that there are corporate events and other work elsewhere, just like in the UK and other countries of course. Again, I shall look into that.


Yes and no.
If it's a saturated market with the UK immigrant market shrinking you may be better off thinking about a different audience to capture - or a different country...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cliveb999 said:


> Thank you for suggesting the Canaries Hepa. I've never been there but I have heard that tourism is on the increase there.
> 
> I shall have a serious think about it and look into it.
> 
> ...


Marbella Entertainments Spain Fuengirola Malaga Benalmadena Estepona AV PA Lighting Hire

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Marbella Entertainments Spain Fuengirola Malaga Benalmadena Estepona AV PA Lighting Hire
> 
> Jo xxx


Ha Ha!! That tells a few stories about the entertainment scene around here. The top featured act is one called "Three's a Crowd" the singing waiters. 

That is the fourth act I've known with that same name in the last ten years. We were the third one and we still use it when we do the odd gig. I think I'll sue


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> Ha Ha!! That tells a few stories about the entertainment scene around here. The top featured act is one called "Three's a Crowd" the singing waiters.
> 
> That is the fourth act I've known with that same name in the last ten years. We were the third one and we still use it when we do the odd gig. I think I'll sue


Wait until they're rich and famous, then sue lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you Jo. I'm on it.

xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Hold on Clive, the greatest attrition rate in Spain is amongst Entertainers. I would go so far as to say that if Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra rose from the dead and their double act put together as of each when in his prime, they would find it difficult to survive in Spain. Good Entertainers are dime-a-dozen in Spain. I am even fearful of those I know waiting to be "discovered overnight" after decades of trying. 

You seem to have a good act and an excellent living in the UK. Cherish it, love it, stroke it, enjoy it . . . it could (and probably would) all come tumbling down in Spain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Leper said:


> Hold on Clive, the greatest attrition rate in Spain is amongst Entertainers. I would go so far as to say that if Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra rose from the dead and their double act put together as of each when in his prime, they would find it difficult to survive in Spain. Good Entertainers are dime-a-dozen in Spain. I am even fearful of those I know waiting to be "discovered overnight" after decades of trying.
> 
> You seem to have a good act and an excellent living in the UK. Cherish it, love it, stroke it, enjoy it . . . it could (and probably would) all come tumbling down in Spain.


I would agree with that and I dont know if the OP contacted that link I gave, but I'm sure the guy who owns it would say the same. My husband has a band in the UK and he has plenty of work (not enough to live on but its his hobby), yes, its boring pubs, clubs and the occasional function - they even did a funeral the other week (WTF?!), but its steady and it keeps him out of mischief!!!!!? In Spain there was very little. His friend in Spain was thinking of starting up an elite function band there, but it wasnt ever going to be enough to live on. We then went to Nerja where, as I pointed out previously, for 1€ you could join in the "open mike" sessions that went around various bars, entertaining!

I guess I found out a lot about the entertainment business in Spain cos its what my husband enjoys and I have to say that those who have work guard it obsessively and dont take kindly to strangers coming along and taking it. I've heard of instances where gear and vans have been sabotaged and fist fights have occurred, all due to someone coming along and taking a gig. Of course this sort of behaviour means that the venues can reduce their fees cos they know that someone will always work for less

My advise would be to stay where you are and enjoy what you do while you can - the entertainment business is fickle and a hard one to make money from in the UK - its even harder in Spain - just my thoughts

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I would agree with that and I dont know if the OP contacted that link I gave, but I'm sure the guy who owns it would say the same. My husband has a band in the UK and he has plenty of work (not enough to live on but its his hobby), yes, its boring pubs, clubs and the occasional function - they even did a funeral the other week (WTF?!), but its steady and it keeps him out of mischief!!!!!? In Spain there was very little. His friend in Spain was thinking of starting up an elite function band there, but it wasnt ever going to be enough to live on. We then went to Nerja where, as I pointed out previously, for 1€ you could join in the "open mike" sessions that went around various bars, entertaining!
> 
> I guess I found out a lot about the entertainment business in Spain cos its what my husband enjoys and I have to say that those who have work guard it obsessively and dont take kindly to strangers coming along and taking it. I've heard of instances where gear and vans have been sabotaged and fist fights have occurred, all due to someone coming along and taking a gig. Of course this sort of behaviour means that the venues can reduce their fees cos they know that someone will always work for less
> 
> ...



Wise advice, Jo...as usual.

We have never been a fan of these kinds of nights out although I'm sure they are very enjoyable. I don't think there's much call for that kind of entertainment around this part of the CdS. There's loads of free or very cheap entertainment here which is very popular but that's more of the flamenco/guitar concert variety.

Maybe further north along the Costa where there are more Northern European immigrants?


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you. I think I am now fully aware that if we come out to Spain, that singing will not be my only job, if I need to make an income.

I am completely over the dream of being "discovered overnight", hence the search for pastures new and a more interesting lifestyle. I've done 500+ weddings in the UK and I don't think Michael Bublé is going to make way for me.

I do have a good act and I will get my feet on Spanish soil and see if there are any opportunities for me at all. Even if away from the Costas. I am fully prepared for the worst and will need to decide whether I want to be bored in the UK or struggle in Spain. I appreciate that being bored in the UK might be less financially tough and easier to live with..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

cliveb999 said:


> Thank you. I think I am now fully aware that if we come out to Spain, that singing will not be my only job, if I need to make an income.
> 
> I am completely over the dream of being "discovered overnight", hence the search for pastures new and a more interesting lifestyle. I've done 500+ weddings in the UK and I don't think Michael Bublé is going to make way for me.
> 
> I do have a good act and I will get my feet on Spanish soil and see if there are any opportunities for me at all. Even if away from the Costas. I am fully prepared for the worst and will need to decide whether I want to be bored in the UK or struggle in Spain. I appreciate that being bored in the UK might be less financially tough and easier to live with..



I can understand your desire for pastures new....must it be Spain, though?
Perhaps other EU states might offer more opportunities.

You won't find it easy to get _any_ work in Spain..unemployment is officially around 34% in the Estepona area. Five million Spaniards are seeking work and things look set to get worse.

Spain is not a destination for anyone who needs to find work and sadly won't be for a long time yet...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think he should go for a fact finding holiday, have a good nose around and see whats about!!! You never know!? 

Just out of interest, heres my husbands band - thats him with the white hair playing the guitar lol!!

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/102834671

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

It can't be too quick a visit either because the Policia are big into work permits and all other forms of red tape. I have seen good acts losing their equipment (confiscation) because of non fulfilment of the necessary paperwork.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Wise advice, Jo...as usual.
> 
> We have never been a fan of these kinds of nights out although I'm sure they are very enjoyable. I don't think there's much call for that kind of entertainment around this part of the CdS. There's loads of free or very cheap entertainment here which is very popular but that's more of the flamenco/guitar concert variety.
> 
> Maybe further north along the Costa where there are more Northern European immigrants?


12 years ago Estepona from your way right down to La Duquesa was buzzing - 5 nights a week easily do-able and acts passing gigs on to each other as they were getting double booked. 

It doesn't surprise me that its not the same now.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Leper said:


> It can't be too quick a visit either because the Policia are big into work permits and all other forms of red tape. I have seen good acts losing their equipment (confiscation) because of non fulfilment of the necessary paperwork.


I've not come across that - must be quite a recent development. Can't say it surprises me.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

It sounds to me as if you are 'bored' and need of a change.. 1st off after reading your post RENT RENT RENT..Don't buy outright, if you find you can't make it and want to go back to the UK then you'll lose a heck of a lot less by renting for 6 months than buying!!

I also wonder if it's a case of wanting a change, how about considering some of the higher end cruise ships for a contract of two.. Most of them have lounge bar areas where they have a singer or e tertainment.. It's not just the big stage cabaret acts these day. You said that you were....... " in search for pastures new and a more interesting lifestyle" tou would get a little income, if you're good some decent tips, you could also sell your own cd's and perhaps international contacts, not to mention that as your work would be in the evenings you get time to get off the ship and see some of the world!


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Leper said:


> It can't be too quick a visit either because the Policia are big into work permits and all other forms of red tape. I have seen good acts losing their equipment (confiscation) because of non fulfilment of the necessary paperwork.


Apparently they are not allowed to do that according to some EU directive law type thingy but you try quoting said directive to a bunch of stroppy, tooled up Guardia at daft'o'clock in the morning and see where it gets you



Doggy








p.s. I did try to find the directive again but was in danger of becoming comatose so you'll just have to take my word for it ....or look for yourself.....best of luck


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks everyone.

Yes, I am bored in the UK. I've reached a point (finally) where there's no point in trying to become a superstar. I am good enough but I'm not ugly enough and I don't have a weepy, sad story to make the X-Factor type people interested 

Yes, I do want to try pastures new and have a more interesting life. The reason I'm concentrating on the Spanish mainland is because I love Spain. I could try any other EU country, but I have this thing about Spain. My parents retired to the Costa Blanca 20+ years ago (they're both now gone BTW) and my sister lived and worked there as an entertainer at the time for a few years. (I appreciate times have changed since then) I've been to Spain for holidays countless times over the decades. Ibiza, Marbella, Costa Blanca and Costa Del Sol. So, it's not just a random thing.

I will admit that all your tales of woe and doom and gloom are making me think extremely seriously. I may try Syria. It looks sunny there.

I'm not sure if you're telling me all this out of your love for me and your concerns for my welfare or if you hate me and just don't want me to come there  Please note, the previous couple of sentences may contain jokes. (written words can be misconstrued so please don't be offended as absolutely no offence is intended.)

We visited Almeria in January to look at properties and we view there again in 10 days time (end of April) and also in Javea area. Look out for me. I'll be wearing a balaclava and I shall randomly bursting into song.

I do appreciate all your input and I am definitely much better informed than I was before. Thank you.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cliveb999 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Yes, I am bored in the UK. I've reached a point (finally) where there's no point in trying to become a superstar. I am good enough but I'm not ugly enough and I don't have a weepy, sad story to make the X-Factor type people interested
> 
> ...



Dont knock Xfactor. A friend of ours went on it last year, he made it to boot camp but no further. Anyway, he's disappeared from the view of the rest of the country, but he has got a lot of very lucrative work from his appearance. He's currently doing stage shows across the country and is making a lot of money doing something he's always wanted to do and he's a local celebrity in Worthing Terry Winstanley | Facebook

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cliveb999 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Yes, I am bored in the UK. I've reached a point (finally) where there's no point in trying to become a superstar. I am good enough but I'm not ugly enough and I don't have a weepy, sad story to make the X-Factor type people interested
> 
> ...


if the weather doesn't improve in the nnext 10 days you'll _need _that balaclava in Jávea............ it's decidedly chilly here today!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

cliveb999 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Yes, I am bored in the UK. I've reached a point (finally) where there's no point in trying to become a superstar. I am good enough but I'm not ugly enough and I don't have a weepy, sad story to make the X-Factor type people interested
> 
> Yes, I do want to try pastures new and have a more interesting life. The reason I'm concentrating on the Spanish mainland is because I love Spain. I could try any other EU country, but I have this thing about Spain. My parents retired to the Costa Blanca 20+ years ago (they're both now gone BTW) and my sister lived and worked there as an entertainer at the time for a few years. (I appreciate times have changed since then) I've been to Spain for holidays countless times over the decades. Ibiza, Marbella, Costa Blanca and Costa Del Sol. So, it's not just a random thing.


Personally I don't see anything wrong with saying that you're bored and you want a change, as valid reasons for wanting to come to Spain. Also, with this info we now understand why Spain in particular.
However, valid reasons or not you are right to think seriously about what you've been told here and you're getting a better idea of why Spain, at least now, is more or less a no go area. 
It's a good idea to still come here on holiday, scout around and see what you can find.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cliveb999 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Yes, I am bored in the UK. I've reached a point (finally) where there's no point in trying to become a superstar. I am good enough but I'm not ugly enough and I don't have a weepy, sad story to make the X-Factor type people interested
> 
> ............


how about this then??

BBC One - The Voice UK

we don't have UK tele but my dd heard about this & we've been downloading it religiously - not about sob stories or looks - just about the voice................ so if you're _that good................................_


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yes, I know about The Voice. Too late for that this year. Plus, the initial audition process is not "blind" either. The first step is with a researcher type person, like all the other shows, who gets to make the initial yay or nay decision.


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

If you want a six penneth worth from a fellow entertainer (god I hate that term ….. but I’m a washed up, sad old rocker) in Almeria who, thank god, doesn’t have to work but now does it just for fun ….. if you come here it’s going to be very hard but it can be done …..if you’re good enough and prepared to travel a lot….& I mean a lot. It will be very (very) hard work and you will have to be prepared to (musically) prostitute yourself in order to please an ever fickle audience ….. but then you probably know this already.

Listen to the good people on here and come over on a rekky (better still, two or three), suss out acts, venues et al then do the same in a few different areas that you fancy. The more research you do now will save possible heartache in the future.

If you’re ever over this way you’re very welcome to nip up to wor hoose. I’ll get the kettle on (or maybe summat a bit stronger:clap2 and give you a totally biased view on why I think you’re totally mad ……..still, we'll have a laugh, talk music 'till we drop and when we're bored with that .........it’s nice scenery up here



Doggy


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm a hard worker indeed and travelling a lot doesn't put me off. I know the money's less in Spain but as far as travel is concerned, last night's gig in Wales was a 300 mile round trip. As long as it makes economic sense, I'm well up for it.

We'll be in Mojacar in 10 days time and looking forward to it. As I've mentioned before, it all has to make sense before we sign on the dotted and take the plunge.

Nice to have a bit guarded optimism. Thank you.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

And of course you could always come and have a go here on the second Friday of the month - Open Mic Night


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Wicked. I'd be up for that. Thank you.


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Hmmm... Well Clive, I a say go for it. Life is short, and if your an entrepreneur which most singers/actors are then use your skills 
There are lots of very conservative people here in the forum. I came here 3 years ago with an idea for a food business. Everyone told me it was a silly idea. Some told me I was wasting time and money. 
It took me some time and my savings but six months ago I started selling to grocery stores and other venues. I am so glad I followed my gut feeling, my new business is doing AWESOME. Sure it's different here, some things are harder but some are easier too. 
I say go for it. There are no ordinary moments. Every one is special, and you'll never get it back. Follow your dream. I for one will go see your act, I'm from California and love those sounds! 
See ya on the beach!


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you, thank you.

Yes, I do have a strong entrepreneurial streak and I relish a challenge. And that's what this will be. A challenge. I don't expect it to be easy. I believe if you're resourceful, adaptable, sensible and alert, then you can overcome most obstacles. 

Yes, life is short. I have two close friends who are learning that lesson right now and won't be around for much longer. They are urging me on too.

Well done for following your gut and creating your own destiny. What's your food business? Was that started from scratch?

Good man. The beach is calling.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

fastlos said:


> Hmmm... Well Clive, I a say go for it. Life is short, and if your an entrepreneur which most singers/actors are then use your skills
> There are lots of very conservative people here in the forum. I came here 3 years ago with an idea for a food business. Everyone told me it was a silly idea. Some told me I was wasting time and money.
> It took me some time and my savings but six months ago I started selling to grocery stores and other venues. I am so glad I followed my gut feeling, my new business is doing AWESOME. Sure it's different here, some things are harder but some are easier too.
> I say go for it. There are no ordinary moments. Every one is special, and you'll never get it back. Follow your dream. I for one will go see your act, I'm from California and love those sounds!
> See ya on the beach!


ahem - no-one on this forum ever told you your business was a silly idea........... in fact you weren't even a member here 3 years ago & as far as I remember there has never been a discussion about your business



I do seem to remember you being involved in a discussion about getting a street vendor's licence - which is a different thing entirely..............


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Noo! I came to Spain three years ago. Nobody here said I was silly. My spanish cousins said i was crazy! My mom said i was crazy! Relax miss Gabia!


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Clive, I make American and Mexican spice blends. I import peppers from Mexico and cayenne from luisiana to make authentic Cajun Blackening Rubs, Texas chili powder, fajita and salsa mixes, BBQ sauces and more. I'll bring you some samples when I come see you whip out some Frank Sinatra!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

fastlos said:


> Noo! I came to Spain three years ago. Nobody here said I was silly. My spanish cousins said i was crazy! My mom said i was crazy! Relax miss Gabia!


Gabia????

well that's OK then - we don't usually tell people they are silly until we know them really well


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

cliveb999 said:


> Thank you, thank you.
> 
> Yes, I do have a strong entrepreneurial streak and I relish a challenge. And that's what this will be. A challenge. I don't expect it to be easy. I believe if you're resourceful, adaptable, sensible and alert, then you can overcome most obstacles.


Damn right Clive....go for it and make it happen!

And one important point in your favour.....you're a singer.

Now if you were a comedian or a chat show host I'd say don't do it!

Simply due to the fact that Spain is already overrun with British clowns, jokers, and multi-talentless bull****ters who can do nothing _other_ than talk!

Strange but true!


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Great! TexMex goes down really well with my gang. Make sure I know how to find you when the time comes.


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

Ha ha! Superb. Thank you XTreme.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Fastlos,
I remember the discussion when you were on here last contributing to a thread about a street vendors licence and you came just like you did now - kaboom! and ruffling feathers.
I would sincerely disagree that the forum in general is conservative. What happens is that people who live here, and some people know anything about whatever it is the OP is asking about share opinions and experiences. Therefore if that experience is, it's a cut throat business, difficult to get year round work, and it's a saturated market the OP is going to get told that.
Personally I think Cliveb999 has been extremely fortunate in the info he has been given by people who know what they're talking about.

If you live here and have a business here you'll surely know that the facts that have been given for unemployment and economic crisis on the forum are not conservative but true. What do you think is useful advice, come on over bud, pour yourself a sangria and watch the money pile up on your doorstep?? 
To be successful you usually have to know where you're going and what you're going to find when you get there. You also need a gert big dollop of luck which have obviously had.
I'm glad you've established a successful business here in Spain. I would imagine you've had to work hard at making it work, so good for you. It would have been extremely useful to other people if you had posted some detailed description of the steps that you had to take to get your business on the road, but you chose not to do that, only to criticise the info that is readily given by other members.

What I don't really understand is if the forum doesn't give you useful info, and you don't pass on the info that you have, why did you come back...

If you do decide to help others by sharing your info...
It was never really clear if you personally did some kind of in the street selling from a cart/ van/ caravan...
You also never directly answered the question of whether you speak Spanish or not, or if you did when you first came over.
Don't you have to get a food handlers licence? If you do, did you do that here in Spain or get one you already had validated?

PS To other Americans. I believe fastlos had Spanish nationality so he didn't have to go through all the hoops that other Amercans have to to be able to get here.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Fastlos,
> I remember the discussion when you were on here last contributing to a thread about a street vendors licence and you came just like you did now - kaboom! and ruffling feathers.
> I would sincerely disagree that the forum in general is conservative. What happens is that people who live here, and some people know anything about whatever it is the OP is asking about share opinions and experiences. Therefore if that experience is, it's a cut throat business, difficult to get year round work, and it's a saturated market the OP is going to get told that.
> Personally I think Cliveb999 has been extremely fortunate in the info he has been given by people who know what they're talking about.
> ...


GREAT, OBJECTIVE WELL THOUGHT OUT POST ~ THANK YOU :clap2:


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

For the record, I have benefitted tremendously from all the input volunteered on this forum, and I thank you all for that. I think all discussions need to be balanced and they certainly have been.

I want to come to Spain and make a success of it. It will take some more research and planning. If I can join the dots I'll be there. I don't need things to be perfect, I just need to know how to be prepared. The best way to do that is to learn from the experiences of other people who have done the same.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

cliveb999 said:


> Ha ha! Superb. Thank you XTreme.


Clive....something I should have added!

You may well find that some of these Brit singers may well be clowns. I have actually met a couple over the years and had a chat with a couple of them about music in general. And I always ask.....what sort of material do you sing? And in every case, the answer has been EVERYTHING!

So I'm standing there figuring whether I'm talking to somebody who possesses the incredible vocal dexterity of a Linda Ronstadt, Ronnie James Dio, or Myles Kennedy who can seamlessly switch between genres and voices according to the material.....or am I speaking to an assclown?

I made it a point to check them out as my curiosity was aroused by these claims.....and every one I ever saw was basically a pub singer. No more, no less. Agadoo was a bridge too far I'm afraid.

One immediate exception springs to mind.....Wayne Fontana! Who despite having had a tough time of it over the years and now being in his late sixties, still has a young man's voice. 
I'm not sure how much work he gets over here.....and it's possible his various run ins with the law and OTT behaviour hasn't helped his marketability, but he can still really get up there and perform. 
Apart from that he's a great character as well......good to see him still around. The world needs more personalities like him!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The idea of a forum is to collect views and opinions. There are going to be differences. However, if you were to run a poll on how easy it is............. For every one person who makes it, there are probably 30 who dont, but you could be that one?????? The bottom line is give it a go, make a few fact finding trips and get a feel for how things are.

Sadly I know too many musicians, singers etc who havent made it, singers who have work, but its not even enough to cover their autonomo payments, I also know of one who is doing brilliantly and has regular work (and finds it incredibly boring, just as you do in the UK lol). I know some who've tried and been attacked by fellow musicians, I know some who are amazing, but its not about quality, its about whether these singers etc can pull in the punters! I dont know if you contacted the chap on the link I posted, but he's pretty knowledgable in the costa del sol area and will tell you how things are and whether there will be enough work available to you. I know most of the big hotels etc use agents such as he.

Jo xxx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I'm always available to entertain you Jo!


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## cliveb999 (Apr 12, 2012)

With regards to what I sing XTreme, I can and have sung pretty much everything over the years but, for the past 8 years I have devoted myself totally to Sinatra and the Rat Pack etc. Something that is and has been close to my heart since I was very young (a very long time). So, if people ask me what I do, it's just Swing and Rat Pack etc.

Hi Jo, I did send an email to the chap you recommended, thank you, and I also registered with the agency website. Just waiting to hear back. In fact I've contacted two people introduced via the forum and I've had a great long telephone conversation too, which was very informative. Thank you.


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Fastlos,
> I remember the discussion when you were on here last contributing to a thread about a street vendors licence and you came just like you did now - kaboom! and ruffling feathers.
> I would sincerely disagree that the forum in general is conservative. What happens is that people who live here, and some people know anything about whatever it is the OP is asking about share opinions and experiences. Therefore if that experience is, it's a cut throat business, difficult to get year round work, and it's a saturated market the OP is going to get told that.
> Personally I think Cliveb999 has been extremely fortunate in the info he has been given by people who know what they're talking about.
> ...


Pesky, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. It's amazing how you went back to check threads in me. I still can't see where I criticized anyone! Or is saying people are conservative criticism? 
I have gotten lots of useful info here. And was thankful. 
The forum regarding food carts was the same. All negative. My point is if you have a dream, follow it. Don't be put off by unhappy, negative people. If Clive is good he'll make it. Luck is being prepared for, and receiving an opportunity. 
I speak Spanish fluently. Learned before I came. I applied for my citizenship when i arrived. To supplement my income and give something back to my community I teach martial arts to spaniards in the English language. I say this because I never thought I would do this until I got here. Just like Clive can use his skills to make it work. Just out of curiosity, what was your profession pesky? 
And I actually am so busy enjoying myself and working I don't spend much time online. And when I "ruffle feathers" it's something I feel I can enrich, not critisize. Some people seem to have answers for everything! 
I must have missed the thread with an entertainer sharing. As I look back I see lots of negativity. I guess most of us Californians are positive thinking people..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

fastlos said:


> Pesky, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. It's amazing how you went back to check threads in me. I still can't see where I criticized anyone! Or is saying people are conservative criticism?
> I have gotten lots of useful info here. And was thankful.
> The forum regarding food carts was the same. All negative. My point is if you have a dream, follow it. Don't be put off by unhappy, negative people. If Clive is good he'll make it. Luck is being prepared for, and receiving an opportunity.
> I speak Spanish fluently. Learned before I came. I applied for my citizenship when i arrived. To supplement my income and give something back to my community I teach martial arts to spaniards in the English language. I say this because I never thought I would do this until I got here. Just like Clive can use his skills to make it work. Just out of curiosity, what was your profession pesky?
> ...



Theres nowt wrong with being positive. but you must also be cautious and have all the knowledge. Otherwise that dream will turn into a nightmare! I'm sure you know as well as anyone else on here that it isnt easy and there are more failures than successes. If you dont warn people of that then you're guilty of trashing their dreams, but later rather than sooner and thats dangerous and unkind. So the forum is full of info and caution - it wouldnt be worth reading or contributing if it was simply all positive and hype!

Jo xxx


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

XTreme said:


> Damn right Clive....go for it and make it happen!
> 
> And one important point in your favour.....you're a singer.
> 
> ...


LOVE IT!! 

Simply due to the fact that Spain is already overrun with British clowns, jokers, and multi-talentless bull****ters who can do nothing other than talk!


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Fastlos,
> I remember the discussion when you were on here last contributing to a thread about a street vendors licence and you came just like you did now - kaboom! and ruffling feathers.
> I would sincerely disagree that the forum in general is conservative. What happens is that people who live here, and some people know anything about whatever it is the OP is asking about share opinions and experiences. Therefore if that experience is, it's a cut throat business, difficult to get year round work, and it's a saturated market the OP is going to get told that.
> Personally I think Cliveb999 has been extremely fortunate in the info he has been given by people who know what they're talking about.
> ...


I quote someone here... 

Simply due to the fact that Spain is already overrun with British clowns, jokers, and multi-talentless bull****ters who can do nothing other than talk!


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

fastlos said:


> I quote someone here...
> 
> Simply due to the fact that Spain is already overrun with British clowns, jokers, and multi-talentless bull****ters who can do nothing other than talk!


You quoted Spain as a "no go area"
Just vacation here? Come on dude.. Negativity!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

fastlos said:


> You quoted Spain as a "no go area"
> Just vacation here? Come on dude.. Negativity!


Yes....I'm only here on holiday to brush up on my wife beating skills!

Unfortunately the wife's ahead on points at the moment but I'm hoping to come from behind.

Now what is it they say about Americans and irony?


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm sorry, I am quite bad at this forum thing. I had directed that at pesky wesky! My apologies! Oh ya, I'm Californian.. Way different than American! 
Cheers


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

fastlos said:


> Pesky, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. It's amazing how you went back to check threads in me. I still can't see where I criticized anyone! Or is saying people are conservative criticism?
> I have gotten lots of useful info here. And was thankful.
> The forum regarding food carts was the same. All negative. My point is if you have a dream, follow it. Don't be put off by unhappy, negative people. If Clive is good he'll make it. Luck is being prepared for, and receiving an opportunity.
> I speak Spanish fluently. Learned before I came. I applied for my citizenship when i arrived. To supplement my income and give something back to my community I teach martial arts to spaniards in the English language. I say this because I never thought I would do this until I got here. Just like Clive can use his skills to make it work. Just out of curiosity, what was your profession pesky?
> ...


Some names ring a bell, and not always for the right reasons. I looked at your past posts to make sure I'd got the right guy, and yes, you did make some, IMO, unfair criticisms in the past. And yes, I did think that "conservative" was offered as a negative in your first post on this thread, rather than a positive. It's something that's come up many a time before - people interpreting what many of us see as just basic, real, (essential even) living - in - Spain info as negative, unfriendly, even unnecessary. Unfortunately, Spain is going through an economic crisis much worse than that of the States, the UK and most other european countries and believe it or not we still get people coming on here that have NO idea of what it's like in Spain.
Somebody, somewhere along the line has to make it. You are the proof of that. But how many don't have a hope in hell of making things work, come over and ruin their lives and the lives of their partners, children, parents for a good few years? Quite a few, I can tell you. Being "good" isn't always enough. Some of this could be avoided by asking questions, and then listening to the advice offered. 
I asked you about your level of Spanish because undoubtedly that has helped you enormously. When you tell people it's easy to do XYZ it's good to remember that many people can't do XYZ 'cos they don't speak Spanish. It's another thing that many people just don't put into the equation and think they can live and work in Spain without speaking the lingo. Again, some will manage it, but it will probably increase the level of difficulty quite a lot.
As for me, I'm just another one in the pile of English teachers that are here. I only work in companies which means I have quite a variety of students and perhaps is a little different from most teachers who work in academies or have private classes. I'd love to do something else, but fear I've left it too late. The same as Clive999, I'm going to say I'm good at what I do and therefore have clients that have been with me for around 8-10 years which is very unusual in the business English world. I speak Spanish and have to to be able to get my pay check at the end of the day. Would I tell a qualified English teacher to try their luck in Spain? Depends. If you're single and are OK with earning just about enough to live and travel around a bit a weekends it could be for you. If you want to support a family, probably best to think again.

PS as Jojo said, nothing wrong with a bit of positivity
And nothing wrong with a bit of realism either!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

fastlos said:


> You quoted Spain as a "no go area"
> Just vacation here? Come on dude.. Negativity!


Yes, you really are quite bad at this forum thing IMO!
OK, I did say no go area, but I did say_* more or less a no go area*_, and then said _*come on holiday to scout out the situatio*_n. I didn't say don't ever come to Spain and forget it. My message was supposed to be _*don't dive in to Spain and expect to come up trumps; think about it*_.
And about negativity, see realism as pointed out on long post above.


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Okay, your right! No negativity there at all on your part. 
And as far as speaking Spanish, I personally would never attempt to live in a foreign country without downing the language. Just not too smart in my opinion. So, I just assume anyone relocating will learn the language of the locals.


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, you really are quite bad at this forum thing IMO!
> OK, I did say no go area, but I did say more or less a no go area, and then said come on holiday to scout out the situation. I didn't say don't ever come to Spain and forget it. My message was supposed to be don't dive in to Spain and expect to come up trumps; think about it.
> And about negativity, see realism as pointed out on long post above.


And I see where you are a forum expert! Over 3000 posts in 5 years! Lots of advice! 
I guess that's the difference between some people. Some just try and survive, some do
Much more, and don't accept failure!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

fastlos said:


> Okay, your right! No negativity there at all on your part.
> And as far as speaking Spanish, I personally would never attempt to live in a foreign country without downing the language. Just not too smart in my opinion. So, I just assume anyone relocating will learn the language of the locals.


 Very few people who come on the forum can speak, read or write fluent Spanish, so that has to be taken into account, many havent a clue about Spanish paperwork, rules, regulations etc. Thats why they come on here. But quite frankly anyone who can will still not find it easy!! However, if you truly think that it is and that we're unnecessarily negative (our negativity is based on our lives and of those around us), then feel free to tell folk that their dreams will come true in Spain and its easy. But do justify your reasoning and not just because you found it so!!

jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

fastlos said:


> And I see where you are a forum expert! Over 3000 posts in 5 years! Lots of advice!
> I guess that's the difference between some people. Some just try and survive, some do
> Much more, and don't accept failure!


 I think you should stop right there. Pesky Wesky is a valued member of the forum, she's lived in Spain with her Spanish husband and child for many, many years. I would listen to her opinion anyday over someone who doesnt seem to have a clue and who just seems to have had a lucky break!

Jo xxx


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

I spy Troll!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

fastlos said:


> So, I just assume anyone relocating will learn the language of the locals.


Wrong assumption I'm afraid.....certainly as far as Brits go.

We've made a lifelong career out of going to every far flung corner of the globe and expecting others to speak our language.

Nobody's going to pass on an episode of Jeremy Kyle, or the latest bargains on the car boot sale just to go the language classes.


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## fastlos (Dec 6, 2011)

jojo said:


> Very few people who come on the forum can speak, read or write fluent Spanish, so that has to be taken into account, many havent a clue about Spanish paperwork, rules, regulations etc. Thats why they come on here. But quite frankly anyone who can will still not find it easy!! However, if you truly think that it is and that we're unnecessarily negative (our negativity is based on our lives and of those around us), then feel free to tell folk that their dreams will come true in Spain and its easy. But do justify your reasoning and not just because you found it so!!
> 
> jo xxx


No! It's not easy, but can be done. Maybe all the people who have found success are busy living and not spending so much time in forums giving others second hand advice! 
My only point is that people can make it. But if one spends all their time telling others what to do or not do then they surely will not be success stories! They will be talking about it. 

C


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

fastlos said:


> No! It's not easy, but can be done. Maybe all the people who have found success are busy living and not spending so much time in forums giving others second hand advice!
> My only point is that people can make it. But if one spends all their time telling others what to do or not do then they surely will not be success stories! They will be talking about it.
> 
> C


sorry, you're wrong. I've seen too many people with great ideas, good financial backing fail! Just because you think you've succeeded doesnt mean everyone will!! I'm going to close this thread now, because you're talking nonsense and we're straying way off topic

Jo


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