# hi yet another newbie



## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi all just a few questions u prob get all the time lol, i live in london with husband and 2 daughters ages 2 1/2 and 4 and another daughter due in may, i have just booked to come to spain in july for 2 weeks so we can have a good look around the cost del sol (will be staying in marbella), we having been reading up alot on mijas pueblo so if anyone could give me a bit of advice what this area would be like for a young familey and any ideas on areas such as good schools, not to big a tourist area
but not to far from airport, a good area for children to grow up, and would be really nice yo hear a little poitive feed back from a familey who love bringing there children up in spain and what are
the potives.
we are in a good position as far as money so wont be needing jobs, and all of us have been
learning spanish gor the last 4 months anf will continue to, and not selling house in london so 
will still have a base in uk.

many thanks


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Hello

I can't really answer your questions with regards to the suitability of your intended area, but I just wanted to mention that you must do your research with regards to what you're getting yourself into by relocating to Spain with a young family.

Very large numbers of UK Expats are returning to the UK and they're returning for a very good reason. The days of Spain being a cheap and cheerful place in the sun are well and truly over. Things have changed and changed quite radically.

You say you won't need to work in Spain, you're not selling your house and you'll be okay financially which is good. However you must realise that firstly, if you are a tax resident in Spain (if you stay there more than 183 days in any year) any income (earnt or unearnt) you receive from the UK and worldwide will be taxed according to Spanish income tax rates. Those tax rates are rising all the time and there is no getting around this. In addition, Spain has recently introduced into it's tax policy a declaration by all Spanish tax residents of all assets held worldwide, that includes all bank accounts, all investments, all property. Failure to disclose all these details can be subject to a €15,000 fine as well as tax on top.

You should also expect the £ to continue dropping against the € until it virtually reaches parity.

You say you won't be working in Spain, then you will need comprehensive health insurance for the whole family as you will not be able to join the Spanish Health service.

If all this isn't bad enough, you also need to consider the property market. No-one really knows what's going to happen with this, some believe it's stabilised, some believe it will continue to decline, what all seem to agree on is that it will probably take about 5 - 10 years or longer to start improving.

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but you must approach this with full understanding of what you're doing. However bad it might seem in the UK (and it is bad, it's hard to know which is in the better position) it's no better in Spain.

Think it all through very carefully.


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

zenkarma said:


> Very large numbers of UK Expats are returning to the UK and they're returning for a very good reason. The days of Spain being a cheap and cheerful place in the sun are well and truly over. Things have changed and changed quite radically.


OK, some great points but wait a minute. The days of Spain being a cheap and cheerful place in the sun are NOT well and truly over... yes its not as cheap as it was but it's still cheaper than the UK IMO, its still more cheerful than the UK IMO and just becasue the people who have lived here for years are seeing durastic changes alot of people leaving the UK for Spain will still see benifits and positives of making the move!!

It's not nice seeing people struggle, and the job situation is very frustrating to say the least, but if you do have money and your willing to ride out the current crisis, however long that will be, then it's not a bad time to move out at all.

You still get cheaper property here than London (Where the OP currently is), utilitiies are still rising but not sky high, good quality food is cheaper and easier to access... anyway... just my little rant. I'm not trying to say its great and everyone should move here but just becuase alot of expats are moving back due to the crisis and rising costs, it doesn't mean that a lot of expats are relocating here and making a very good life!!


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

RichTUK said:


> The days of Spain being a cheap and cheerful place in the sun are NOT well and truly over...


Hi Rich

They are as far as I'm concerned and I think it would be entirely wrong for any of us here to give that impression to anyone thinking of relocating there.

I'm merely trying to put forward a counter-view to the common misconception (and I mean no disrespect to the OP by inferring that they have this misconception) that Spain is still a cheap place to live. Because it most certainly is not. That may have been true 10+ years ago, but it's not true now. I'd argue the cost of living has now broadly reached parity with the UK when you consider taxation, utility costs, food, telephone, insurance etc. This is merely being exacerbated by the £ falling against the € which is a deliberate policy of the UK government who want to make their exports cheaper to euro countries. Expect that to continue.

The only thing that is cheaper in Spain at the moment is property, and it's a very brave person indeed who invests a substantial amount of money into Spanish property in this economic climate. There's too much uncertainty surrounding the Spanish property market as well as uncertainty with regards to Spain's financial/economic situation, it may require an EU bailout, it might have to exit the EU completely and the UK may vote to exit the EU as well.

Now add in the additional costs of healthcare in Spain as the Spanish authorities do everything in their power to deny health care to immigrants, many of whom have paid into the UK NHS all their lives.

I hate to paint such a dreary picture, because as you rightly say, for those that are comfortable financially, Spain still represents a reasonable proposition, but I think it's very wrong to continue the misconception that Spain is still a cheap place to live.


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

I know there was no disrespect ment to anyone, I didn't mean any disrespect either and both sides of the argument are exactly what's needed. I agree that it's not far of the UK but I still think you can live here cheaper and helthier here in Spain. A also agree that it's not wise to invest alot of money here, I purly mean that if you have the money to make the move, then now is the time to take the risk as apposed to moving here and needing to find work to support yourself and family. 

I still think this country has a lot of positives and I hope that in afew years time I don't regret the move I made but I'm not looking at the move with a success or failure aproach, I've wanted to move here for 10 years so I'm just gona look at it as in... I'm here now and make of it what I can  But thats just my personal way of looking at this and everyone has different needs and wants different things. 

Back on topic though for the OP, it is wise to let the facts about the economy and crisis worry the pants off of you, as it should, but you can still be worried and happy at the same time


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

We have regular visitors over from UK and all of them bar none think that the cost of food here is considerably cheaper than UK. Electricity is about the same as UK but gas and council tax are far cheaper. We currently rent and for what we pay here in the campo with three beds huge living room and kitchen and pool we would be lucky to get a one bed high rise where we used to live. Of course, there are far cheaper places to rent in UK than where we lived but I can only compare like with like for us. Also, where we used to live, knife crime was pretty much endemic as was mugging and rape and whilst Spain is hardly crime free it is far better than where we used to live. Yes things are far tougher here than they were but IMO it is still a better place to live (if you can do it) than UK and we do get a summer worth having....


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

hi all thanks for yhe replys and the ones that are positive, im not overly worried how much food and bills will cost morely wsnted to find out about familey life and what kind of place it is for childrenand about if people are happy there but the more of these threads i read i csn only imagine all the expats must be sooooo unhappy in spain as there are very few and far between happy positive thresds.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

lolalou said:


> Hi all just a few questions u prob get all the time lol, i live in london with husband and 2 daughters ages 2 1/2 and 4 and another daughter due in may, i have just booked to come to spain in july for 2 weeks so we can have a good look around the cost del sol (will be staying in marbella), we having been reading up alot on mijas pueblo so if anyone could give me a bit of advice what this area would be like for a young familey and any ideas on areas such as good schools, not to big a tourist area
> but not to far from airport, a good area for children to grow up, and would be really nice yo hear a little poitive feed back from a familey who love bringing there children up in spain and what are
> the potives.
> we are in a good position as far as money so wont be needing jobs, and all of us have been
> ...


Good to know that you won't be looking for work as that is where many British immigrants go wrong. As people have already pointed out there is very little work here even for the very qualified, fully bilingual graduates that are on the job market now.
Good to know too that you have started learning Spanish. Learning a language is very hard work usually for adults and it takes years, not months to feel semi comfortable with it. There's lots of info here about the trials and tribulations of learning Spanish if you want to search for it
Here's one to get you going and at the bottom of the page there's a list of related threads
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/41880-learning-spanish.html
As far as being cheaper or not, which seems to have become the theme of the thread, I think some things are cheaper and some aren't, but I still tend to think that all in all life is cheaper here. Everything has gone up tremendously, there's no denying that, but I still feel that food and transport, the two biggest outlays in our house, are cheaper. How much variation will depend on the region, or the town, or who is in the town hall at anyone time so local taxes, rents etc really are something that need to be asked about at each place you go to see.
I think people are reluctant to recommend a place as the Costa del Sol really is a big area and includes places out in the sticks, grotty places, nice places - everything and it's all down to individual taste really. I don't know the area very well, but I can tell you that Neja is unbearable for me in the summer. Hot and humid and overrun with tourists. I imagine October - Easter as very pleasant, but that's just my opinion. Thrax lives down that way and Jojo too.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

thrax said:


> Electricity is about the same as UK


No it isn't.

UK Electricity Price Per Kwh: 14.5p x 1000kwh = £145 x 1.15 = €166.75
Source: Fuel Prices

Spain Electricity Price per 1000 Kwh (Endesa): €279
Source: Comisión Nacional de la Energía. Comparador de Ofertas de Energía: Gas y Electricidad



thrax said:


> ...but gas and council tax are far cheaper.


Gas isn't far cheaper either.

UK Gas per Kwh price: 4.5p x 1000 = £45.00 x 1.15 = €51.75
Source: Fuel Prices

Spain Gas per 1000Kwh (Endesa): €136
Source: Comisión Nacional de la Energía. Comparador de Ofertas de Energía: Gas y Electricidad



I agree that IBI is cheaper than UK Council Tax but given that the valor catastral values have just been reevaluated and IBI in my region is going up from 4 - 10%, it's catching up. To be honest the IBI + Rubbish disposal + Non-resident tax on my 1 bedroom Spanish flat, isn't a lot different from the Council Tax of a 1 bedroom flat in the UK, but it would still be slightly cheaper.

Telephone/broadband is also generally more expensive in Spain and with little choice if you want reliability over Telefoníca, who continue to strangle the market because they own the infrastructure.

Strange how things change somewhat when you actually look at the facts isn't it?


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

lol so does anyone have any positives on familey life rather than bills and how tougth it is to live in spain??????? there must be at least one good thing rather than just the weather lol


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

lolalou said:


> lol so does anyone have any positives on familey life rather than bills and how tougth it is to live in spain??????? there must be at least one good thing rather than just the weather lol


Depends where you choose to live and what you are after, hard to say if family life will be better but if you all enjoy the out doors then theres generally tons and tons of awesome trips and activities to do. I'd say family life would be better but I have never really enjoyed living in the UK so im bias.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

lolalou said:


> lol so does anyone have any positives on familey life rather than bills and how tougth it is to live in spain??????? there must be at least one good thing rather than just the weather lol


I have one daughter, now 18, who was born here. 
I was always very pleasantly surprised at the way children play here. My husband is a member of a large Spanish family and our family gatherings are big - just with brothers and sisters and their children and MIL there are 15 of us. When the cousins get together at Christmas and in the summer there are over 40. The kids mix a lot and there will be a lot of taking care of the younger ones going on and lots of games of hide and seek etc involving *all* of them. I would leave my daughter aged 2.5 or 3 with a group of friends' kids while having a drink in a bar or eating in a restaurant and would know that they'd look after her. Obviously we'd be keeping an eye out, but it was a good thing to be part of. Sounds totally irresponsible, but it was the right thing to do.
Of course, there are places and places and I'm not saying that Spain is wonderful, bring your children and leave then¡m in a park, but in general Spain is a lovely, safe place to bring children up in. People will stop you in the street to say how nice your children are, give you sweets in shops (bit of a problem actually!) , try and cheer them up when they're crying at the till in the supermarket. 
Above all children are visible. They are in the plazas, in the parks, are up very late at night, and are noisy, so if you're not very good at putting up with kids you have to get used to it!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I am only able to compare what I used to pay for electric and gas in UK and what I pay here. My annual dual fuel bill in UK was around €3000 a year and council tax was €1450 a year. As we rent we don't pay council tax here and our annual fuel bill is around €2100. We don't have to pay for rubbish collection. Because of emmissions our car tax is zero. Fuel for the car is still cheaper, just!! But for us it is the outdoor lifestyle which we love the most and something we could not have achieved as easily in UK for our young lad. This isn't to say it has been easy here because it hasn't. We've had our fair share of red tape to contend with as well as battling with the health care system when our sone was taken seriously ill. Having said that, the triage in emergency for our lad was something I have never witnessed in UK, it was simply fantastic, particularly as it was on a Saturday night. I find the Spanish overall wonderfully polite and accommodating (but we have also met a few nerds). I love driving over here and the views of sunrise over the mountains (sea atm in winter) is always a wonderful sight. The mountains are currently tipped with snow and very pretty. We have made a lot of good friends and none ot them are riddled with the materialism which was the norm in UK. Having said all of that, UK is where I was brought up and will always be home. There are bits of it I miss but overall I would rather be here in Spain than UK. That's not to say it will always be the case but for now we are happier here than we were in UK and we were happy there too. Our income here is maybe one third what it was in UK but we have a far better lifestyle so I just can't complain. But then, those on here who know me will know that I am generally a very optimistic soul. Each to his/her own.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

lolalou said:


> hi all thanks for yhe replys and the ones that are positive, im not overly worried how much food and bills will cost morely wsnted to find out about familey life and what kind of place it is for childrenand about if people are happy there but the more of these threads i read i csn only imagine all the expats must be sooooo unhappy in spain as there are very few and far between happy positive thresds.


Don't imagine that British people living here are soooooooo unhappy. Most of us on the forum are happy living here, pensioners, people with young children, families or singles.
The reason that you'll see some negative postings is that Spain is in a very bad economical situation which if you are living here, and you're not living in a bubble, you'll be very much aware of. It would be impossible, untruthful or maybe naive not to allude to that when talking to someone who is thinking of bringing their family here to live. 
In order to make a success of life here you need to understand what is happening in the county around you. Why are there 30 children in the class when before there were 22, why aren't the street lights always on, why aren't the roads being repaired, why are there so many demonstrations, why are there lines outside the church doors?
They're not negatives comments, they are talking about life as it is and as a possible imigrant you should be interested in this information and aware of it. As I said before, you say you won't be looking for work which is good and you'll be keeping the house in the UK, which is also good. The children are young. You're in a strong position, but you do need to know what you're coming to.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

lolalou said:


> lol so does anyone have any positives on familey life rather than bills and how tougth it is to live in spain??????? there must be at least one good thing rather than just the weather lol


Yes, I have only been here for seven months but I think the lifestyle is superb, especially for children, but you must all get out there and learn the language.
Where I live there are two plazas up the street and on Friday and Saturday evenings and Sunday lunchtimes the places are ringing with the noise of kids. The parents are sitting around with their families or friends having a beer or whatever and there is always someone keeping an eye out for the kids. The kids seem to be as safe as houses with so many people and the Spanish really do enjoy children. One can be held up in the supermarket queue while the cashier takes time out to chatter to a toddler sitting in the trolley
In July and August I would carry my portable chair and a book to the beach but spent more time people watching cos I was so taken by all around me. The locals gather en masse with their chairs, parasols, ice box, inflatable paddling pools for the smallest. Around 2pm lunch would be brought out and they would all settle down for a good meal under the parasols. Some families would play board games really just name it and it was happening. I think one can't separate Spain from the sun since it is an integral part of the Spanish lifestyle and surely plays a part in their generally cheerful attitude to life.
Having not lived in the UK for many years and only visited for a few weeks in the summers I can't compare prices, but I don't find Spain overly expensive.
I certainly wouldn't buy anything without staying here for quite a while until you get a feel for the place, as I am doing at the moment. 
I have heard from various sources including Spaniards to forget about Marbella as a permanent place to live but can't offer you any alternatives, after all isn't there a saying about one man's drink being another one's poison.


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## paul44 (May 19, 2009)

I would say that compared to what we have to pay in Southern Ireland Spain is incredibly cheap not saying that its not catching the UK up but being a frequent visitor to Spain and England I would spend half of what I spend in Ireland in Spain and the UK would be a 3rd cheaper.

I will feel like a millionaire when I finally up sticks to Spain and I'm not joking!


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

As far as areas go, Mijas Pueblo is a lovely little town and very well marketed. As a result there are coachloads of tourists every day and parking can be difficult too although there is a big multi storey car park there. Not sure if there are resident permit parking spaces or anything. As it is VERY touristy, you obviously get tourist prices there, which might not bother the OP, but if you're going to live somewhere, it doesn't matter how much you have, being overcharged for everything becomes a bit tiresome.

There are many such white villages in Spain which are just the same as Mijas, but don't get the publicity and are therefore much quieter and, for the locals living there, the cost of living is also much cheaper.

With regard to the utility bills situation, one poster suggested that bills are dearer in Spain, but that may depend where you are. €150 per year Council Tax as opposed to ten times that in GB Sterling is a nice saving for starters. As for the rates per Kw/h, did that poster take into account standing charges which effectively double those prices? Also, the consumption of your devices may well be lower owing to different voltage but I could be wrong there. Point is that as far as living expenses go, Spain is certainly not dearer than the UK apart from, probably internet access.

Can't comment on family life, but if it's allowed there is a website which I have no affiliation with called family life in Spain and they have an email newsletter regularly.

You may well find challenges, anyone would in a new country but I would be positive and see each challenge as an experience, go with a positive frame of mind and I'm sure you'll have a whale of a time.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, I agree that one has to go with a positive attitude and yes, I think that some of the smaller places would be much more enjoyable than a place like Marbella. It does take time but if the family doesn't have any economic problems well that is a big plus.
Once again, it depends what are the goals of a family. In my case, even if I had ten times the income that I have I would never think of buying or renting some flash house complete with pool etc. That can be done all over the world, but then each to his own.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

I have only lived here for a month..... our rental is exactly the required size - adequate size kitchen & lounge area - 2 double bedrooms & a private outside space. All this for 450 euros PCM ...the landlord pays the council/water tax..... In contrast, rents are astronimical In UK.

As Pensioners, we always owned our own home & thought long & hard before retiring to Spain.

I researched this thread prior to our move &, purposely, did not contribute until we lived here.

I have read many posts that could be off-putting, seemingly negative & also the replies of Newbies, leaving in a huff - never to be heard of again....

Surely, we are all individuals & need to personally research - outside this forum - prior to making such a life changing decision......












I will let you know how our adventure unfolds......there is a lot of wisdom on here.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Allie-P said:


> I have only lived here for a month..... our rental is exactly the required size - adequate size kitchen & lounge area - 2 double bedrooms & a private outside space. All this for 450 euros PCM ...the landlord pays the council/water tax..... In contrast, rents are astronimical In UK.
> 
> As Pensioners, we always owned our own home & thought long & hard before retiring to Spain.
> 
> ...


Good for you Allie p I am paying more in Cadiz than you are but for a smaller place, although I am delighted with it. It suits me while I see where I wish to live. As long as we can use the internet there is a wealth of knowlege just waiting for us.Cheers


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> I have only lived here for a month..... our rental is exactly the required size - adequate size kitchen & lounge area - 2 double bedrooms & a private outside space. All this for 450 euros PCM ...the landlord pays the council/water tax..... In contrast, rents are astronimical In UK.
> 
> As Pensioners, we always owned our own home & thought long & hard before retiring to Spain.
> 
> ...


Look forward to reading your comments as well balanced posts telling the good and the bad from people who are living the life are exactly what we need.

You're right, there are number of people who leave in a huff. I wish they wouldn't. I wish they'd stick around a bit and tell us what they've decided and how it works out.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Look forward to reading your comments as well balanced posts telling the good and the bad from people who are living the life are exactly what we need.
> 
> You're right, there are number of people who leave in a huff. I wish they wouldn't. I wish they'd stick around a bit and tell us what they've decided and how it works out.


To be fair I think people leave in a huff because of the "Welcome" they get from some people with the attitude that if you don't agree with their viewpoint then they'll abuse you. Not you Pesky, someone else and I speak from personal experience.


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

*Renewables*

Hi all sorry I haven't introduced myself yet, just a quick question but do many of you use solar or thermodynamics and slash that bill you have? You really should be paying such high prices as you could get a great input from the Spanish sun on solar. Not trying to sell anything here but my plans going forward would include renewables when I'm in a place to buy.

Regards
Jonathan 



zenkarma said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> UK Electricity Price Per Kwh: 14.5p x 1000kwh = £145 x 1.15 = €166.75
> 
> ...


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Hi all sorry I haven't introduced myself yet, just a quick question but do many of you use solar or thermodynamics and slash that bill you have?


Solar is great for long term and very cost effective, but not everyone wants to invest in a property and it's not much good if you want to rent. Solar also has a pretty long return on investment, in other words you have to lay out a fair amount of money up front and it's going to take some time to recover that initial investment.

Great if you're sure where you want to be and are happy to stay there 10-15 years, not so great if you want to rent or decide you want to move.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

lolalou said:


> hi all thanks for yhe replys and the ones that are positive, im not overly worried how much food and bills will cost morely wsnted to find out about familey life and what kind of place it is for childrenand about if people are happy there but the more of these threads i read i csn only imagine all the expats must be sooooo unhappy in spain as there are very few and far between happy positive thresds.


Hi - it's not the first time that a 'newbie, like yourself,' has posted a request for info. and opinions re. his/her proposed plans for relocation to Spain - and then has been less than pleased with the responses received..! 

Personally, I am living, currently, in the _'rea_l' Spain - by which I mean _'the __reality'_, as I experience it - rather than '_the fantasy!_' I recently posted , on a different thread, a very positive and truthful description (from my perspective) of my adopted Spanish city. Nonetheless, as OPs have advised, Spain is suffering hugely from the economic Crisis, with a population subject to alarming and increasing levels of poverty, unemployment, homelessness and despair - and my adopted city, so blessed with sun, sea and blue Summer skies, is one of the very poorest, not only in Spain, but right across Europe! 

Anyone who's lived here for a while will have Spanish friends (perhaps family members, too) and neighbours, so will be fully aware of the incredible hardship being endured! The expat. population is, obviously, not immune to the effects of the Crisis and many have already left - others plan to, if and when circumstances permit..

So, you'll have to forgive us if we don't all post positive responses to queries such as yours, all of the time! Would you rather you were mis-informed by self-censored accounts of our experiences here - or should we provide a more accurate picture for you, of our lives in a wonderful country which is buckling, visibly, under enormous economic and social strain, with no apparent end in sight? 

Surely, it would be shameful if we were, in fact, living in blissful ignorance of Spain's plight - and astonishing if we, ourselves, claimed to have been entirely unaffected by it?

None of us know how, or when, Spain will begin to recover - but whilst I hope and want to continue living here ( without dependants), I wouldn't, honestly, advise a family with such young children to move to this country, just now - sorry! 

GC


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

I think it boils down to one thing. Money.

If you can afford to go out and either live on your pension or have other self sufficiency, you're going to be ok. All the little challenges such as tax/health/buying a car/utilities can all be worked out gradually.

If you going because it's a nicer climate but you need a job. Forget it.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Look forward to reading your comments as well balanced posts telling the good and the bad from people who are living the life are exactly what we need.
> 
> You're right, there are number of people who leave in a huff. I wish they wouldn't. I wish they'd stick around a bit and tell us what they've decided and how it works out.




Thank you, Pesky

I will certainly be a regular contributor.......


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

I don't think that the OP is interested in the Spanish economy.....she wants to hear about the success, or otherwise, of young families who have moved to this country.


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

hi all its not that i dont want people to tell me how it really is of course i want to hear it when im bringing over 3 young children but my actual start wuestion never got answered and all i heard about was bills and how much everything has gone up and how basicly apart from the sun how deppressing it is there and all i keep thinking is at least 1 expat must be happy lol surely or there must be one part of spain that hasnt made people so unhappy


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

There's an awful lot of people who are very happy in Spain at the moment and thoroughly enjoy their lifestyle and there's plenty of them on here like that. But those are people who have generally done extensive research on the cost of living, the likely increases in cost of living, the Spanish bureaucracy and exactly how much income they have and whether that income is sufficient to support their lifestyle.

I'd say, if you have a guaranteed, non-risky net income (after all taxes are paid) of around €20-25k a year and you're planning on renting and not buying at around €500 a month. Go for it, that should be sufficient for a reasonable living standard for a young family with two children and builds leeway for currency fluctuations.

If you want to send all your children to private school in Spain double it to €40-50k (after tax).

If you have that kind of resource, get yourself out to Mijas and rent for a month or so and see how _you_ like the area and way of life.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

lolalou said:


> hi all its not that i dont want people to tell me how it really is of course i want to hear it when im bringing over 3 young children but my actual start wuestion never got answered and all i heard about was bills and how much everything has gone up and how basicly apart from the sun how deppressing it is there and all i keep thinking is at least 1 expat must be happy lol surely or there must be one part of spain that hasnt made people so unhappy




Hello Lola,

I understand what you are asking.... I hope that you receive some answers


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

lolalou said:


> hi all its not that i dont want people to tell me how it really is of course i want to hear it when im bringing over 3 young children but my actual start wuestion never got answered and all i heard about was bills and how much everything has gone up and how basicly apart from the sun how deppressing it is there and all i keep thinking is at least 1 expat must be happy lol surely or there must be one part of spain that hasnt made people so unhappy


Page 2 has some posts talking about the subjects you brought up in your original post.


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

thanks for your reply, and yeah i have ticks on everything you have said from having plenty of money to finding out everything i need to know apart from my question on familey life


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lolalou said:


> hi all its not that i dont want people to tell me how it really is of course i want to hear it when im bringing over 3 young children but my actual start wuestion never got answered and all i heard about was bills and how much everything has gone up and how basicly apart from the sun how deppressing it is there and all i keep thinking is at least 1 expat must be happy lol surely or there must be one part of spain that hasnt made people so unhappy


Spain, 10 years ago was a growing, up and coming country and it was easy for expats to go over, find work, make work and opportunities. It really was easy and gave many folk a wonderful life. Sadly, the government allowed too many properties to be built, it allowed money to be spent in the wrong areas and of course, the big killer was that the recession came along. Since then, house prices have plummeted, the pound fell against the euro, unemployment has grown and now new rules about residency and taxes have come along, making it a very different place.

Right thats the history lesson over with lol! Back to original question, yes there are many people who call Spain their home and who have families. There is a sense of uneasiness (lack of money/employment affects everyone one way or another), but on a day to day level, everythings fine. We no longer live in Spain, but we're fortunate enough to be able to rent there and visit often. The one thing I will say is that once the novelty wears off, life is pretty much the same as anywhere else - ok, its hotter in the summer and the houses are freezing in the winter, but you'll still be cooking, cleaning, washing, doing the school run, shopping....!!! But the general ambiance, views, buildings, palm trees are much nicer than the UK

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lolalou said:


> thanks for your reply, and yeah i have ticks on everything you have said from having plenty of money to finding out everything i need to know apart from my question on familey life


family life is what you make of it, wherever you are

those of us who work here find ourselves working longer hours than in the UK - if not actually MORE hours , then spread over a longer day


most days I start work at 9:30 am, & today, although I usually don't have classes on Thursdays, my last class will finish at 9pm, because one of my 'skype' students had to change times - on his usual day I start at 9:30am & finish at 10pm.... 


that's not to say that I work every hour in between -there's a 'siesta' break of a few hours in the middle of the day which means I get to eat lunch (our main meal) with my girls

the main difference really is that when we do have time together the weather usually allows for an outdoor activity, and the 'crisis' menús del día mean that eating out together is more affordable


but as most of us living here with families will tell you - it's not so VERY different - the washing/housework/homework/cooking etc still needs to be done


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> Hello Lola,
> 
> I understand what you are asking.... I hope that you receive some answers


She _*has*_ answers, starting on page 2!
I don't know whether she's read them though...


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> She _*has*_ answers, starting on page 2!
> I don't know whether she's read them though...


yep shes read them


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> family life is what you make of it, wherever you are
> 
> those of us who work here find ourselves working longer hours than in the UK - if not actually MORE hours , then spread over a longer day
> 
> ...


this is what i want an outdoot life i dont want to come to spain because i was hoping the washing and ironing wouldnt need doing anymore i just wanted me and my children to experience diffrent cultures and diffrent countries not just the uk and as hoping thst spain would be a nice fsmiley place


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lolalou said:


> this is what i want an outdoot life i dont want to come to spain because i was hoping the washing and ironing wouldnt need doing anymore i just wanted me and my children to experience diffrent cultures and diffrent countries not just the uk and as hoping thst spain would be a nice fsmiley place


you'll find that children are generally accepted in restaurants more readily - you often won't find special 'kid menus' though, except maybe in tourist areas - children eat the same as their parents

entire families eat out & party together - several generations sometimes, too & until the early hours, from babies to bisabuelos!


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, Lolalou, it is a nice friendly place and yes, probably you will be doing the usual mundane chores that you do at the moment, but I still believe that if money is not a problem, as you said before, then you are young, so what have you got to lose?
A friend is just back from a quickish trip around the Malaga area but found it full of Brits. The info I have received is that the Valencia area has much more of a mix and still got plenty of outdoor things, decent weather and probably cheaper than the Malaga area.
I can't be bothered looking at previous notes but seem to remember you have one child which is school age, so what you could be doing now is find a Spanish teacher for a few hours a week and perhaps sign her up for a holiday camp in spain in the summer, although a lot focus on English, but still must be possible with a hunt to find just a holiday camp.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry, just noticed your eldest child is just four, so forget holiday camp, but Spanish teacher is still valid. Easy peasy for little kids.


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## lolalou (Feb 25, 2013)

Justina said:


> Yes, Lolalou, it is a nice friendly place and yes, probably you will be doing the usual mundane chores that you do at the moment, but I still believe that if money is not a problem, as you said before, then you are young, so what have you got to lose?
> A friend is just back from a quickish trip around the Malaga area but found it full of Brits. The info I have received is that the Valencia area has much more of a mix and still got plenty of outdoor things, decent weather and probably cheaper than the Malaga area.
> I can't be bothered looking at previous notes but seem to remember you have one child which is school age, so what you could be doing now is find a Spanish teacher for a few hours a week and perhaps sign her up for a holiday camp in spain in the summer, although a lot focus on English, but still must be possible with a hunt to find just a holiday camp.


i have 2 girls and another girl due in may, at the moment the girls have a 1 hour class a week learning spanish and another group doing singing and stories with other children in spanish so really hoing for it at the moment


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Well, you are being serious about it and also very practical organising classes for the older one. At that age grammar is irrelevant, the kids just pick it up as they do their mother tongue. Good luck


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