# obtaining EU citizenship thru ancestry - true?



## Paresseux

been trying to find a way to obtain EU citizenship, but seems that all avenues lead from difficult to nearly impossible.

however, found out that my dad's grandfather was born in caravaca, murcia and what i do know is that anyone with at least one grandparent originating from an EU country can claim citizenship. so - my questions are:

1.) can my dad claim citizenship based on his ancestry and then pass it on to me?
2.) how do i go about this? 

i have absolutely no idea how to get started on this, but seeing how helpful the moderators and members are on this forum, i decided to give it a shot and put it out there.

cheers!


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## Bevdeforges

_>>what i do know is that anyone with at least one grandparent originating from an EU country can claim citizenship. so - my questions are:<<_

Not certain how you "know" this, because in fact it isn't true. Citizenship and immigration law are two "hot potatoes" that the EU (in its wisdom?) has left to the individual countries to legislate and enforce. The only trans-national immigration rules involve the Schengen treaty members - and those only pertain to short-term "tourist" visas.

Ireland was long known as the one country in Europe where you could claim nationality based on a grandparent with no residence required. Some countries in Europe don't recognize children born within their territory as citizens if either parent can pass on their nationality. I even know of one case quite recently where a couple from South America had their baby in France (which was always well known for granting nationality to those born within their borders) but due to a change in the law, the baby could not take French nationality, and due to the laws of the couple's home country, could not take the nationality of his parents unless he is resident in the home country for a period of time. Poor little kid has no nationality, though he can travel on papers issued by the parents' home embassy.

You need to check with the Spanish Consulate to see what options you may or may not have, because it is a matter of national law.
Cheers,
Bev


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## scharlack

Paresseux said:


> been trying to find a way to obtain EU citizenship, but seems that all avenues lead from difficult to nearly impossible.
> 
> however, found out that my dad's grandfather was born in caravaca, murcia and what i do know is that anyone with at least one grandparent originating from an EU country can claim citizenship. so - my questions are:
> 
> 1.) can my dad claim citizenship based on his ancestry and then pass it on to me?
> 2.) how do i go about this?
> 
> i have absolutely no idea how to get started on this, but seeing how helpful the moderators and members are on this forum, i decided to give it a shot and put it out there.
> 
> cheers!



Good day,

You will need to contact the Spanish embassy in Ottawa or the Spanish consulates in Canada. Their webpages do have info on nationality (I'm not sure there is info avail in English though). I am sure you will have to prove a lot of documentation as to your grand's place of birth, year of birth, etc. All recognized by the Spanish embassy/consulate. It's usually not a quick process. There is well over a million citizienship applications pending to be processed (I know there is a lot of applications from Argentina). 

Ref: Spanish Citizenship and Spanish Nationality

Good luck!

Cheers


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## jojo

Í want to ask the dumb blonde question and I dont mean this to sound rude or offensive, its just my curiosity:

What is the reason why people want to become EU citizens??

Jo :embarassed:eep:


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## scharlack

jojo said:


> Í want to ask the dumb blonde question and I dont mean this to sound rude or offensive, its just my curiosity:
> 
> What is the reason why people want to become EU citizens??
> 
> Jo :embarassed:eep:


Jo, I can answer for Brazilians...

There was a lot of emigration from Europe to S. America a couple of generations ago. There is loads of Italians and Germans down South and Southeast of Brazil. That happened as Italians and Germans lost the wars so they had to escape somewhere to survive ... same applies to the Japanese in Brazil. Sao Paulo has one of the largest Japanese communities in the world (with a population even larger than many cities in Japan). There is also a lot of Portuguese in Brazil, as you can imagine.

With the lack of perspective to earn decent money in Brazil some will go after the EU passport dream.
Some just want a little change in life. Others want to keep an EU passport "just in case".
All in all people don't understand that a holiday in London/Rome/Paris is not living in London/Rome/Paris ... 
Some people think because one makes Euros or Sterling (strong currencies) that life is much easier... they forget that the ones making Euros or Sterling also spend in Euros or Sterling... and they eventually find out that life is just as expensive with taxes just as high as at home (although Western Europe offers better public healthcare, security and transports than home).

As you can see, there could be many reasons why people go for an EU passport. Is it worth it? That's personal and I respect all everyone's decision. I personally wouldn't spend my time and money (A LOT!) on a passport.

I have rumbled a lot here Jo... hope you can get my point of view. :noidea:


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## jojo

scharlack said:


> Jo, I can answer for Brazilians...
> 
> There was a lot of emigration from Europe to S. America a couple of generations ago. There is loads of Italians and Germans down South and Southeast of Brazil. That happened as Italians and Germans lost the wars so they had to escape somewhere to survive ... same applies to the Japanese in Brazil. Sao Paulo has one of the largest Japanese communities in the world (with a population even larger than many cities in Japan). There is also a lot of Portuguese in Brazil, as you can imagine.
> 
> With the lack of perspective to earn decent money in Brazil some will go after the EU passport dream.
> Some just want a little change in life. Others want to keep an EU passport "just in case".
> All in all people don't understand that a holiday in London/Rome/Paris is not living in London/Rome/Paris ...
> Some people think because one makes Euros or Sterling (strong currencies) that life is much easier... they forget that the ones making Euros or Sterling also spend in Euros or Sterling... and they eventually find out that life is just as expensive with taxes just as high as at home (although Western Europe offers better public healthcare, security and transports than home).
> 
> As you can see, there could be many reasons why people go for an EU passport. Is it worth it? That's personal and I respect all everyone's decision. I personally wouldn't spend my time and money (A LOT!) on a passport.
> 
> I have rumbled a lot here Jo... hope you can get my point of view. :noidea:



Yes thanks, Sharlack I understand what you´re saying and I can see that point of view and I guess it makes sense.

Jo xxx


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## Bevdeforges

jojo said:


> Í want to ask the dumb blonde question and I dont mean this to sound rude or offensive, its just my curiosity:
> 
> What is the reason why people want to become EU citizens??
> 
> Jo :embarassed:eep:


Jo, the simplest reason is to have access to all 27 EU countries without having to get a visa. Applies both to those who wish to work and to those who just want to live there for the long term (say, for retirement).

I've also known of cases where an American (for example) is married to a French national (for another example). If the marriage breaks up, or the French spouse dies, the American spouse can stay in France no problem (usually) - but their status should they want to move to the UK or Italy or Spain is very much in doubt.
Cheers,
Bev


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## jojo

Bevdeforges said:


> Jo, the simplest reason is to have access to all 27 EU countries without having to get a visa. Applies both to those who wish to work and to those who just want to live there for the long term (say, for retirement).
> 
> I've also known of cases where an American (for example) is married to a French national (for another example). If the marriage breaks up, or the French spouse dies, the American spouse can stay in France no problem (usually) - but their status should they want to move to the UK or Italy or Spain is very much in doubt.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Crazy world isnt it! 

"the grass is always greener... but it still needs mowing!" (quote from stevehall)

Jo xxx


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## Paresseux

jojo said:


> Í want to ask the dumb blonde question and I dont mean this to sound rude or offensive, its just my curiosity:
> 
> What is the reason why people want to become EU citizens??
> 
> Jo :embarassed:eep:


in my case, its more a personal choice. i have lived in the east coast of canada for more than 10 years, and to tell you the truth, i cant stand the harsh winters here anymore, which usually last more than half the year. also the lack of history, culture, art, and architecture - the landscape here is pretty "bland", and our healthcare system isnt as good as it used to claim to be. 

europe is far advanced technology-wise, and whenever you want a total change of scene, you can hop on your very low cost airlines (easyjet, ryanair) or hop on your super fast high speed trains for a weekend on the nice or paris. 

i could go on, but dont wanna ramble!


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## Paresseux

wow - didnt know things changed that radically. but i will take your advise and contact the spanish consulate here in canada. 

thanks, everyone!


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## minarul

sir
to get eu citizenship from my won country is possible.

minarul


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## scharlack

Is this any kind of joke?

:ban:

Good luck finding yourself a job. What I can antecipate to you is that it will be very hard for someone to offer you a job without even knowing what you do.

This isn't a recruitment site as you should have noticed.

Cheers.


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## scharlack

A couple of comments. I haven't been in Spain for very long, but...

"europe is far advanced technology-wise..."

It depends on where you are in Europe. Internet connections can go up to 50Mb but it costs 60€/month. And it is not available anywhere. 
You will see in a lot of threads of the Spanish forum that people REALLY do suffer with Telefonica, arguably the best and most expensive telco services provider in Spain.

"super fast high speed trains for a weekend on the nice or paris..."

Trains are great throughout W. Europe, but they are EXPENSIVE. I have searched train trips in the UK, Portugal, Spain and Italy and found them all to be expensive, very expensive although very safe and comfortable. 

I guess it all comes to your income... the catch is that in Spain wages are very low so you will see that people share homes (I have heard of couples sharing apartments), eat cheap, etc... all to save 100-250€/month. There is a LOT of people that can't afford to even think about buying a house. There is a lot of QUALIFIED people with no jobs or an under paid job.

The Canadian winters are harsh, I undertand... nut I reckon Canadian crime is one of the lowest in the developed world. And it is a country that has top education with very decent public healthcare.

Canadian universities are amongst the top 30 in the world's best whilst the 1st Spanish university is the University of Catalunya ranking 183rd.

I have rumbled again... :juggle:

Cheers


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## Xose

scharlack said:


> A couple of comments. I haven't been in Spain for very long, but...
> 
> "europe is far advanced technology-wise..."
> 
> It depends on where you are in Europe. Internet connections can go up to 50Mb but it costs 60€/month. And it is not available anywhere.
> You will see in a lot of threads of the Spanish forum that people REALLY do suffer with Telefonica, arguably the best and most expensive telco services provider in Spain.
> 
> "super fast high speed trains for a weekend on the nice or paris..."
> 
> Trains are great throughout W. Europe, but they are EXPENSIVE. I have searched train trips in the UK, Portugal, Spain and Italy and found them all to be expensive, very expensive although very safe and comfortable.
> 
> I guess it all comes to your income... the catch is that in Spain wages are very low so you will see that people share homes (I have heard of couples sharing apartments), eat cheap, etc... all to save 100-250€/month. There is a LOT of people that can't afford to even think about buying a house. There is a lot of QUALIFIED people with no jobs or an under paid job.
> 
> The Canadian winters are harsh, I undertand... nut I reckon Canadian crime is one of the lowest in the developed world. And it is a country that has top education with very decent public healthcare.
> 
> Canadian universities are amongst the top 30 in the world's best whilst the 1st Spanish university is the University of Catalunya ranking 183rd.
> 
> I have rumbled again... :juggle:
> 
> Cheers


Really?!

So, where does Pamplona University rank for Architects?
and where does Santiago University rank for madical?

I don't think, when it comes to the "Best in the World", that generalisation tables can be used. I wouldn't want to take a quantum physics masters at the University of Toronto if I could get into MIT.

Likewise with misleading past glory. Engineering at Brunnel is now a mear shadow of its past and Kings College and UCL is where it's at.

Bottom line, if you want to be with the best of the best, don't look at things like the "World League University Colleges". Instead, take a look at where the Blue Chips are recruiting.


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## scharlack

Xose said:


> Really?!
> 
> So, where does Pamplona University rank for Architects?
> and where does Santiago University rank for madical?
> 
> I don't think, when it comes to the "Best in the World", that generalisation tables can be used. I wouldn't want to take a quantum physics masters at the University of Toronto if I could get into MIT.
> 
> Likewise with misleading past glory. Engineering at Brunnel is now a mear shadow of its past and Kings College and UCL is where it's at.
> 
> Bottom line, if you want to be with the best of the best, don't look at things like the "World League University Colleges". Instead, take a look at where the Blue Chips are recruiting.


Xose, I just mentioned a published rank. You can look at it however you like and I respect your opinion. 

Although generalization shouldn't be the key, the countries with the top universities are the ones with top industries/economy powers in the world. It can also provide a summary on how a country progresses as far as education goes. Nowadays you can see the University of Beijing well placed along with some Indian universities. I think the rank can be useful. Again, it just depends on how you want to look at it.

I wouldn't mind taking a quantum physics at the York University in Toronto or the MIT. Sadly, I'm not smart/crazy enough. 

The best is what fits you right. :confused2:


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## Xose

scharlack said:


> The best is what fits you right. :confused2:


I couldn't agree more. 

Of course, there are some other, not minor, factors aside from ability. Sadly, the country in question may have a superb university for whatever subject, but getting in, no matter how good you are, may hit some barriers.
For example, I know a grade A student who did a degree in architecture at a University that was far from his first choice simply because there simply wasn't enough cash to fund the studies at his chosen one. The University in question was actually Pamplona, but a large amount of finance is required as well as brains.

The way I see it, this is a very tipical problem of the mentality of SPAIN Ltd at the moment and has been for a long time. It is unable to see its flaws in people investment for the future. Until this, and many other things change, the country will remain seriously challenged in the business world.

We can forget Grants for the above example. They don't cover anything in real terms and the messure of parental earnings for right to apply is so low that they are irrelevent in any case.

If the tables included the ability to get in if you have brains but no cash, then they would be truly worth while and a true sign of the country's progresive stance.

O.K., that's my kids' future covered. Now :focus: 

Salud y pesetas.


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## Mortech

Scharlack keep rumbling , noobs like me learn alot for them 

Ugh for some reason it says I'm in Spain when I'm not , I'm on here just looking for info on being there
on an extended stay (the wife is homesick)


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## minarul

how can i get infromaition to live in spain. can a boby help me.

gracious.


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## jojo

minarul said:


> how can i get infromaition to live in spain. can a boby help me.
> 
> gracious.


As far as I know you need to have a job in Spain lined up and then the company who will employ you will have to sponsor you! You'll need to have skills which arent readily available here as there is mass unemployment, so little incentive for a company to go through the hassle of sponsorship. Unless of course you can provide the authorities here that you have another form of income that will cover all of your living costs and private health cover

Jo xxx


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## minarul

Dear 
scharlack

Sorry for my question.
I have need a sponcer pls can u notify me where i can get information about that 
pls don't mind.

I want to live spain, in madrid i have a school friend but he totaly disable to help me, sponsored me. He was legel.

I'm sorry again for my qus. 

Minarul


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## jojo

minarul said:


> Dear
> scharlack
> 
> Sorry for my question.
> I have need a sponcer pls can u notify me where i can get information about that
> pls don't mind.
> 
> I want to live spain, in madrid i have a school friend but he totaly disable to help me, sponsored me. He was legel.
> 
> I'm sorry again for my qus.
> 
> Minarul


You need to apply for jobs in Spain, maybe search on the net - then if the company needs and wants you to work for them, they will have to organise the work visa. You need to be a specialist in something that will make it worth their whilt to do this tho

Jo xx


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## minarul

Thank You
For Your Advise


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## jacquest

Paresseux said:


> been trying to find a way to obtain EU citizenship, but seems that all avenues lead from difficult to nearly impossible.
> 
> however, found out that my dad's grandfather was born in caravaca, murcia and what i do know is that anyone with at least one grandparent originating from an EU country can claim citizenship. so - my questions are:
> 
> 1.) can my dad claim citizenship based on his ancestry and then pass it on to me?
> 2.) how do i go about this?


Hola!

The "recent" (december 2008) changes to the Spanish Nationality Law that are in place until december 2011 grant your father the possibility of reclaiming spanish nationality from his grandfather, without any other paperwork than the birth and mariage certificates that link him to his grandfather (if his grandfather is actually a grandFATHER, not a grandMOTHER).

Once your father has his Spanish Nationality, you can apply, in Spain, entering legally, for the "residencia por arraigo familiar", which will be granted to you on the sole basis of being the adult child of a Spanish national.

With that "residencia", you can live legally in Spain for a whole year, without needing any job contract or whatever.

After living one whole year legally in Spain, you can claim Spanish nationality due to residence and being a descendant of a Spanish national (as far as I know, not from your father but from your greatgrandfather as the "kind" of nationality that's granted to your father by the new law does not allows him to "transmit" it to his adult children).

Most Spanish consulates in Latin America have special sections on their websites with extensive information on this issue (Nacionalidad - Ley de Memoria Histórica), and it's a pretty simple process, starting with an appointment that you have to make online in the consulate of the jurisdiction where you live.

jacques.


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## Punktlich2

jacquest said:


> Hola!
> 
> The "recent" (december 2008) changes to the Spanish Nationality Law that are in place until december 2011 grant your father the possibility of reclaiming spanish nationality from his grandfather, without any other paperwork than the birth and marriage certificates that link him to his grandfather (if his grandfather is actually a grandFATHER, not a grandMOTHER).
> 
> Once your father has his Spanish Nationality, you can apply, in Spain, entering legally, for the "residencia por arraigo familiar", which will be granted to you on the sole basis of being the adult child of a Spanish national.
> 
> With that "residencia", you can live legally in Spain for a whole year, without needing any job contract or whatever.
> 
> After living one whole year legally in Spain, you can claim Spanish nationality due to residence and being a descendant of a Spanish national (as far as I know, not from your father but from your greatgrandfather as the "kind" of nationality that's granted to your father by the new law does not allows him to "transmit" it to his adult children).
> 
> Most Spanish consulates in Latin America have special sections on their websites with extensive information on this issue (Nacionalidad - Ley de Memoria Histórica), and it's a pretty simple process, starting with an appointment that you have to make online in the consulate of the jurisdiction where you live.
> 
> jacques.


The OP is long gone. That said:

Spain long had preferential naturalisation provisions for nationals of certain countries, mainly former Spanish territories other than Puerto Rico.

There are still some EU/EEA/Swiss countries that have special provisions for descendants of nationals. Ireland remains one (it is jus soli that was abrogated by constitutional change following the Chen/Zhu case (a Chinese national who had her baby in Northern Ireland, obtained Irish nationality for her, and applied for a residence permit for Britain based on that dependent's nationality; as with the USA, it was politically expedient for certain Irish politicians to pretend that birthright citizenship was a genuine numerical issue when it was not).

Italy, Portugal, France and Switzerland have liberal attribution of nationality rules under specific circumstances. Germany (and sometimes Austria) are good bets for persons who can show their parents were harmed by Nazi legislation, and with respect to Germany for some (especially Jews) who can claim to be "ethnic Germans" and have a connection with Germany or its wartime-occupied Eastern territories. There are doubtless other opportunities for descendants of emigrants from specific European countries.

Finally, it is true that nationality is within the purview of EU states and there is said to be no EU law on the subject. In fact, however, that is untrue. In a few cases there have been behind-the-scenes representations which have led to administrative relief (notably the Ramadanoglou case, where a Muslim Greek had his Greek nationality revoked under the (now abrogated) Art. 19 of the Greek nationality law -- while he was exercising his EU cross-border rights, employed in Germany). And the UK revised its draft 1983 Nationality Act to give special rights to the offspring born abroad of British employees of the EU itself.


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## SheilaTranslate

Yes that's your best bet. Contact the consulate. I doubt that your dad needs to do anything though. If he wasn't born in the EU,then I dont think his applying for citizenship will make your situation any easier but I'm not sure.


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## Punktlich2

SheilaTranslate said:


> Yes that's your best bet. Contact the consulate. I doubt that your dad needs to do anything though. If he wasn't born in the EU, then I dont think his applying for citizenship will make your situation any easier but I'm not sure.


I made my comment (above) for the record. Why do people try to "reply to" or "help" an OP whose question may be years old and who is long gone?

Yes, the consulate is generally the best place to go for advice of this sort. But one has to ask the right question (and have the facts to hand) to get a good answer. Consuls (and I was one once) don't all have equal enthusiasm to help those who ask the "wrong" question. 

And birth in the EU has no significance whatsoever except in countries that have conditional jus soli (i.e. that grant rights to persons born in that country under certain circumstances): the UK (if the baby continues to live in Britain for ten almost-uninterrupted years or if one parent becomes "settled" or a citizen of the UK during minority). France, Germany, Portugal and possibly Ireland come to mind: nationality is not available at birth in most of these absent certain facts (such as birth in the country by a parent ("double jus soli"), election at a certain age, willingness to give up other nationalities, etc.) In many European countries (not the UK) nationality is accorded by birth in the country if the child would otherwise be stateless. See the Convention on the rights of the child, etc.

Sometimes attribution of nationality to the father (occasionally the mother) on the basis that the parent always had it (for example: was born in the UK before 1983 or Ireland north or south before (I think) 2005) means that the child born abroad always had that nationality, s/he just has to prove the facts of birth, parental marriage etc. That's true of the USA as well: many children born abroad to American parents are never registered as such with a US consul but they are no less American citizens (assuming the parent(s) had the requisite periods of prior residence in the USA or federal employment by a parent) and are subject to US tax, espionage laws, etc. -- but who's to know?) 

Why do people answer questions of law when they really don't know the law and are just guessing or writing from "general knowledge" and urban myth?


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## xabiaxica

Punktlich2 said:


> I made my comment (above) for the record. Why do people try to "reply to" or "help" an OP whose question may be years old and who is long gone?
> 
> Yes, the consulate is generally the best place to go for advice of this sort. But one has to ask the right question (and have the facts to hand) to get a good answer. Consuls (and I was one once) don't all have equal enthusiasm to help those who ask the "wrong" question.
> 
> And birth in the EU has no significance whatsoever except in countries that have conditional jus soli (i.e. that grant rights to persons born in that country under certain circumstances): the UK (if the baby continues to live in Britain for ten almost-uninterrupted years or if one parent becomes "settled" or a citizen of the UK during minority). France, Germany, Portugal and possibly Ireland come to mind: nationality is not available at birth in most of these absent certain facts (such as birth in the country by a parent ("double jus soli"), election at a certain age, willingness to give up other nationalities, etc.) In many European countries (not the UK) nationality is accorded by birth in the country if the child would otherwise be stateless. See the Convention on the rights of the child, etc.
> 
> Sometimes attribution of nationality to the father (occasionally the mother) on the basis that the parent always had it (for example: was born in the UK before 1983 or Ireland north or south before (I think) 2005) means that the child born abroad always had that nationality, s/he just has to prove the facts of birth, parental marriage etc. That's true of the USA as well: many children born abroad to American parents are never registered as such with a US consul but they are no less American citizens (assuming the parent(s) had the requisite periods of prior residence in the USA or federal employment by a parent) and are subject to US tax, espionage laws, etc. -- but who's to know?)
> 
> Why do people answer questions of law when they really don't know the law and are just guessing or writing from "general knowledge" and urban myth?


as a new member the poster probably simply didn't realise that an old thread had been resurrected

there's nothing wrong with offering general advice & support unless it is wrong advice

& then wrong advice will be corrected


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## Punktlich2

xabiachica said:


> as a new member the poster probably simply didn't realise that an old thread had been resurrected
> 
> there's nothing wrong with offering general advice & support *unless it is wrong advice*
> 
> & then wrong advice will be corrected


Wrong advice often isn't corrected and that's the problem. I almost never post specific statement on what the law is without providing a link. Even when the point of law is related to my professional competence.


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## jacquest

Google is your friend.

Google

I guess that if someone's seeking for SPANISH nationality, he/she will definitely understand some Spanish, enough to read these links.

Additionally, you can check Hijos y Nietos Españoles (Hijos y Nietos de 
Españoles). There's a board there with *EXTENSIVE* information about all the possibilities.

Last but not least, I understand that despite forum members "disappear", the postings last enough for others to come read, especially when after doing a google search on a given topic, they are brought to this board.

And, besides the need for "links", which might be very quickly and easily found through a Google search based on the keywords that are provided by users on the board, I understand that one of the most important thing of this community is to share personal experiences.

I was sharing the experience I PERSONALLY HAD when doing all the paperwork on Spanish nationality for a relative (granchild of a Spanish immigrant), who could claim Spanish nationality through the "Ley de memoria histórica". Now his child is going through the process of "residencia por arraigo familiar" (again, Google is your friend) that I described above.

Cheers!
jacques.


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