# Rules on Six Month Visa?



## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm new here in this forum. I have visited a lot of sites on Mexico and it's visa laws. I was not able to find a clear answer to the following issue.

My question is regarding how long a person must stay out of Mexico before they can come back in and acquire another six month visa?

My thinking here is that I can not afford to meet the "retiree" requirements of Mexico. But I still want to finish my retirement outside of America. What better place than Mexico.

Six years ago I left the Philippines and returned to America in 2005. I had lived in Malaysia for my first six months outside America back in 1996. The rest of the time I spent in the Philippines (for ten years). Once a year I had to take a trip out of the Philippines for a weekend and than return. During each year I could renew my tourist visa every three months while in country up to one year.

I would rather stay closer to the States this time.

Would anyone who may have the answer to this question please respond.

I thank you in advance for your time and kindness.

David


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

Cebucats said:


> My question is regarding how long a person must stay out of Mexico before they can come back in and acquire another six month visa?


As long as it takes you to turn around and come back in.


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

Cebucats said:


> I'm new here in this forum. I have visited a lot of sites on Mexico and it's visa laws. I was not able to find a clear answer to the following issue.
> 
> My question is regarding how long a person must stay out of Mexico before they can come back in and acquire another six month visa?
> 
> ...


FWIW, Mexico is inside America too. If you want to live outside of America you must live on another continent.


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

Europeans and most non Spanish speaking people, except English speaking North Americans, mean the USA when say America. (And even a lot of the excluded ones also do so)

This perpetual nitpicking may be correct, but it sure is useless.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

First, the FMM is 180 days and not 6 months and that can be important as people have been tripped up.
Technically, I think that there are restrictions but practically, it has never been a problem to leave and then turnaround and come back. As immigration systems get better, who knows.
Remember that if you also brought a car in with temporary permit, it must go to the border with you and have sticker removed.
BTW, keep the receipt as proof that car left.
Expect that you & I were in ASEAN for overlapping period. I arrived Singapore in 1997 and covered India to the Philippines until end 1999.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

So far so good.

Thank you dongringo.

Though I may have misspoken on America vs USA I asked for constructive help and not some wise-ass put down comment which only nitpicked my questions with useless information that is a distraction from my questions.

Hopefully this forum is more in line with answers like dongringo's first response and conklinwh's extensive detailed response. Again THANKS to both of you.

Your information has been very enlightening and responsive. I hope some day to have an opportunity to meet both of you.

Now I have some follow up questions, if you don't mind. Unless you think I should start a new thread?

1) How hard is it to get a "FMM" visa and would I do that at the boarder?

1) Since you mentioned a car conklinwh; how hard is it to bring my 2000 Ford minivan into Mexico? Also would that be a safe venture to attempt?

2) Where are the safest places to live? Keep in mind that I would need cheap rent (say around US $300/month), and really don't mind living among respectful locals.

I live alone, except for my cat, and I learned how to live cheap while in the Philippines. BTW conklinwh, I would like to continue a discussion on the Philippines someday.

If you two have the time for these follow up questions I again appreciate the time you are spending answering them; me being a stranger to you.

David :focus:


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Cebucats said:


> So far so good.
> 
> Thank you dongringo.
> 
> ...


1)Both questions: FMM is very simple to get at immigration after you clear the border at basically any crossing. All you need is your passport and some cash or credit card. You go to the window to get FMM form(bring a pen), fill it out and go back to the window. Where you pay varies a little by crossing point but person will tell you. BTW, make sure FMM is for 180 days. When you say "bring in car", I assume that initially you mean temporarily import. No problem with 2000 minivan as we have multiple in our small town. To do this after immigration, go to copy window. They will ask for FMM, driver's license, title or registration, & passport. Pay for the copies and go to Banjercito window to complete import, pay(I like credit card hear because of deposit required if cash-see other thread). 
Remember to keep the paper handy after removing the sticker as will be asked for it at checkpoints. BTW, the expiration date on car permit will match FMM and the car needs to go with you if you leave. What you should do in advance is Mexican Auto Insurance as US doesn't cover you. There are multiple online sites that do comparisons of options. I'd do min of 6 mo but full year probably only a small bump.
As to crossing, we come from the east so we like to cross on the east side of the Texas border. Our preferred crossing is Los Indios south of Harlingen TX. There had been a lot of cartel activity with police involvement in Tamaulipas so we have temporarily shifted to Laredo/Nuevo Laredo to max cuotas(toll roads) even though we have a lot of friends that almost shuttle between Mineral de Pozos, where we live in Mexico, and South Padre Island with no problems. Since military now replaced most of the Tamaulipas police departments, they do see a lot more soldiers on the road to Ciudad Victoria.
2) As to safe cities, you will get as many folks chiming in on what you mean safe as you will their little part of Mexico. I'm no different, I live in Mineral de Pozos and feel very safe. Before deciding to build in Pozos we rented 4 years in San Miguel, a great transition by the way, and felt very safe there. The weekly dual language newspaper, the Atencion, publishes a police blotter each week and there is a slow increase in street crime but still a lot less than a comparable US city. We rented a 3BR, 2.5BA casita for $300/month in Pozos while we were building. It is now for sale so don't know about renting. Also, we have friends in San Miguel that live well for very little including one woman that rents 3BR apt. with rooftop terrace a 10 min want to centro for less than $200/mo so can be done.

Expect that you lived in Cebu which I hear is great. I spent almost all my time in the Philippines in and around Manila on business. Never did get much time to explore.


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

I hung out in Zamboanga City for a while in the 70's, and although I spoke no Tagalog, I got along great in Spanish.

Drop the "respectful locals" remark about Mexican neighborhoods! You'll be tolerated almost anywhere with a 300 dollar housing budget, except where rich Mexicans live.

As for safety, if you made it to the US/Mex border ok, you'll do fine further south. Ignore the narco specialists on this board.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

WOW!!!

What a wealth of informed information ... Thanks ... I'll be busy now checking out the map for destinations with a nice place to live there. Also plan out a route for my migration this fall or early winter.

Have to put together some more funds and tire up loose ends here.

Man am I getting more excited once again in my life.

Once I'm able to direct mail you guys I would like to visit more on the Philippines.

Yes conklinwh, you're correct about Cebu. Was it that obvious? 

I did spent a couple years during my stay in Manila and surrounding areas; Cavite, Las Piñas, and Quezon City as well as right in Manila near the US Embassy. What an experience!

Never made it to Zamboanga City dongringo. Spent the majority of my time in and around Cebu City, Bohol, and short stay to the east of Cagayan de Oro.

Ran into a NPA armed patrol on a jungle path in Bohol one day. They just wanted to know if I had paid my revolutionary tax yet. Very nice folks; polite and all.

Overall interesting stay in the Philippines. Biggest "cultural" shock were the arm guards at almost all the shops and malls.

I had a Filipino gal whom I met in Malaysia and was very helpful during my stay in the Philippines. We were together for 16 years and recently broke it off. Long distance relationships really don't work.

By "respectful locals" I just meant polite and not much very loud music late night. Nothing personal toward the Mexican folks; disrespectful folks can be of any race and nationality.

Are there any online sites where I can find listings of rental properties in different parts of the country.

Preference might be for me to stay near water and within an even temperature (75 to 85 degrees) year round area. I have some joint problems that can be aggravated by high humidity.

What else should I be aware of that you may think or feel would be helpful?

David


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

BTW, Texas might be the way I come. Lived 12 years in Fort Worth area in the 1980's and early 90's.

David


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## marie99 (Jun 23, 2011)

*Immigration Rules for Length of Time in Mexico*



Cebucats said:


> I'm new here in this forum. I have visited a lot of sites on Mexico and it's visa laws. I was not able to find a clear answer to the following issue.
> 
> My question is regarding how long a person must stay out of Mexico before they can come back in and acquire another six month visa?
> 
> ...



Hi David. You can only have one six month visa in a calendar year. I recently had a client who entered Mexico on a 180 tourist visa in November and was hoping to extend it past the end of April time frame. I checked with our immigration specialist as two months of the 180 days was in the previous year and I questioned whether it was possible to extend the visa to for two more months in the 2011 year. Alas, it was not, and if it had been, he would have used up his six months in 2011 and not been able to reenter until 2012.

You can come and go over the year but not exceed the 180 limit. 

Re retirement qualifications. To qualify for your FM3, currently you need to show an income of approx $1200 for the three months immediately before you apply. It is not difficult to qualify at all. I have never had a client who didn't meet this criteria, one way or another. If you would like to talk to our Immigration Specialist, let me know and give me your email address and I will connect you. She is in Guadalajara and looks after our clients in Lake Chapala.

One caveat I should mention is the law has recently changed regarding Immigration, and the changes are 'supposed' to make it even easier. Unfortunately it will be about 6 months before the true interpretation of the law gets know. Viva Mexico!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*6 Month Limit per year.*



marie99 said:


> Hi David. You can only have one six month visa in a calendar year. I recently had a client who entered Mexico on a 180 tourist visa in November and was hoping to extend it past the end of April time frame. I checked with our immigration specialist as two months of the 180 days was in the previous year and I questioned whether it was possible to extend the visa to for two more months in the 2011 year. Alas, it was not, and if it had been, he would have used up his six months in 2011 and not been able to reenter until 2012.
> 
> You can come and go over the year but not exceed the 180 limit.
> 
> ...




I had an immigration officer processing forms for us last year tell me when my 180 day FMM visa is close to the end date just turn it in at the border when you leave and come back into Mexico and get another 180 day FMM. I think you definitely have to be on the border to do this and cannot do anything about extensions anywhere inside Mexico and have to leave Mexico and re-enter. I have never had an immigration officer ask me if I had a previous FMT or FMM visa when issuing me a new one.


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## marie99 (Jun 23, 2011)

*Technology can be a blessing or a curse*



AlanMexicali said:


> I had an immigration officer processing forms for us last year tell me when my 180 day FMM visa is close to the end date just turn it in at the border when you leave and come back into Mexico and get another 180 day FMM. I think you definitely have to be on the border to do this and cannot do anything about extensions anywhere inside Mexico and have to leave Mexico and re-enter. I have never had an immigration officer ask me if I had a previous FMT or FMM visa when issuing me a new one.


You are right Alan in that this is the way it used to work and may still in some cases. People have come into Mexico on a Tourist Visa then would drive up to the border every six months and just come back in on a new 180 Visa. The problem now is the borders have computers and if they check you could and probably will, be denied. Alas, progress has its pros and cons. ))


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

David, I think you are asking if you can live here on sequential FMMs. Yes, you can but as Marie99 says, you have to leave every 180 days (or less) -- you can't legally overstay. 

I have to return to the US two or three times a year, so I get at least three FMMs per calender year and stay 3-4 months on each one, getting a new one each entry. There are no income requirements with an FMM so that will not require you to show the $1,200 per month needed for an FM3.

$300/month is certainly enough for rent. Of course, you won't be able to live with the rich folks but you'll have plenty of options. We currently rent a furnished three bedroom apartment with all utilities covered in the rent including cable tv and internet for $380/mo in a nice area of Guanajuato. We saw several large, very nice unfurnished apartments when we were looking for well under $300/mo.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

marie99 said:


> You are right Alan in that this is the way it used to work and may still in some cases. People have come into Mexico on a Tourist Visa then would drive up to the border every six months and just come back in on a new 180 Visa. The problem now is the borders have computers and if they check you could and probably will, be denied. Alas, progress has its pros and cons. ))


I hope this is not the case. It seems odd that they would enforce it -- why keep out tourists who want to come spend their money? Folks with time shares wouldn't be able to come and visit their property more than once a year and other tourists who come several times per year would no longer be able to do so.

Plus, it would mess me up!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I think the point here is the technicality; 180 days per year. It is seldom enforced yet, but as the computer system improves, it can be. It has occasionally been enforced for certain less than desirable individuals. There is rumor that the FMM may eventually become a card with a magnetic strip. If so, enforcement might begin at that point.


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## marie99 (Jun 23, 2011)

*The alternative to Tourist Visa is to get FM3*



circle110 said:


> I hope this is not the case. It seems odd that they would enforce it -- why keep out tourists who want to come spend their money? Folks with time shares wouldn't be able to come and visit their property more than once a year and other tourists who come several times per year would no longer be able to do so.
> 
> Plus, it would mess me up!


Tourists can come several times a year, just not exceeding a total time of 180 days. The beautiful thing about Mexico has always been, there are the 'rules' and then there is the 'way things are done', and often the two are entirely opposite. However, with technology, everything changes. 

But no worries, as anyone who wants to come and go on a regular basis, simply needs to get their FM3 Visa and all is well again; no limits on time here or away.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

circle110 said:


> I hope this is not the case. It seems odd that they would enforce it -- why keep out tourists who want to come spend their money? Folks with time shares wouldn't be able to come and visit their property more than once a year and other tourists who come several times per year would no longer be able to do so.
> 
> Plus, it would mess me up!


Tourists could come and go as often as they wish, but not to exceed 180 days per year. If they wish to spend more than 180 days per year, they can easily obtain the new 'tarjeta de residencia temporal', which is now in law and to be implemented by November. So, it shouldn't 'mess anybody up'.


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

Not definitive, perhaps, but helpful

http://www.banderasnews.com/1106/nb-mexicoimmigrationlaws.htm


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Ah... thanks, DNP. Very informative.

I was completely unaware of the changes coming. Hence, my fear of being 'messed up'.

Actually, it looks like the new laws will make things simpler for most folks - definitely so for me. Since I'll be marrying a Mexican citizen this fall, I can get on the 2 year fast track to permanent residency. That also was the case before but the old FM2/inmigrante category had restrictions on time out of the country, which would have caused me problems since my work as a musician takes me out of Mexico for weeks or even months at a time and I would have been flirting with the limits. That appears to no longer be an issue.

After reading the Spanish version of the law (ugg... reading Spanish legalese is not my idea of fun!), I don't see mention of specific income requirements for "residente temporal" nor for "residente permanente". It mentions that evidence will need to be shown for the "premanente" but it doesn't say how or how much, and for the "temporal" it doesn't mention any income requirements. Apparently, that is something INM will define in the 180 days they have after May 25th to define their regulations.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who has replied on this thread of mine concerning the 180 day visa and how long one is required to remain outside of Mexico before being able to return.

Legally I would only be able to use such a visa once a calendar year. That just would not work for me. I certainly would not want to try to re-enter sometime in the future and not be able to go back to my cat and things (my home) until the next calendar year.

As for getting any type of "retirement" visa I just would not be able to qualify in the income department. I'm one of those unfortunate ones that was left with far less than the required $1,200 per month (due to an early onset disability).

I'm not a lazy bum, but here in the States I sure am treated like one. I want to live without government assistance. I have many advance degrees with high honors that have all gone to waste. So in my final years I would just like to enjoy my life.

The US $300 dollars I pay out of my pocket now for my share of the government subsidized rent here in the States would provide a better housing environment in Mexico. And best of all I would not be relying on the Government.

In the Philippines I lived on far less than what I get today in Social Security Disability at the age of 61. It just is not possible to return to the Philippines again.

So for those who would suggest that I should hire an immigration specialist with money I do not have; thanks, but no thanks.

Whatever becomes of me now I don't know ... I have no more dreams

BUT, again THANKS (muchas gracias) to everyone...

bye


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I'd say it's not yet time to give up completely on Mexico, Cebucats.

According to the new law as it reads right now, they don't even mention having an income requirement for a "residente temporal" visa, although that will only give you 4 years. As for the "permanente" it is still unknown how much income will be required.

If it comes to pass that you just can't make it work for Mexico, I might suggest Nicaragua. I spent several months there working as a volunteer a couple years ago and I met many NOBs in financial circumstances similar to yours who were living comfortably in the colonial city of Granada on $600 USD per month. It's not very practical to drive between there and the US but the flight from Chicago to Granada was under six hours as I recall.

Suerte.


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## BajaExPat (May 12, 2009)

*Consider Baja for your new home*

Cebucats,

Given your interest in moderate climate, you may wish to consider my home turf, Baja California on the Pacific Coast. We do not have the heat and humidity, if you are looking for a break from that. Mid 70's temps are the norm. Rosarito Beach has one of the largest expat communities in Mexico.

It is of course not as 'authentic' as smaller communities in the interior of Mexico, but there are many smaller communities in Baja as well. For better or worse, we do have the advantage of proximity to the border so, depending on where one lives in Baja, one can drive to a US destination within hours.

On other issues already touched... as a 'border region' there are no permits required to import your vehicle. The 'frontier' has a lot of relaxed regulations for expats, simply because there are so many of us.

Our local immigration office has informed us that the federal congress has approved another set of immigration policies that are set to become effective around September. Along with the new policies implemented in May of this year, these new policies will continue to make the process easier for the expat in Mexico.

Mail service and package delivery is much simplified here. You have the option of major airports in Tijuana and San Diego. In town, cable tv with US stations and premium channels if desired, high-speed internet, etc. is readily available. There is a wide variety of civic and cultural events in the 'cities,' yet you can be quite remote with a short drive. While Tijuana is huge, and Rosarito is touristy in season, there is much more than those areas for your consideration, and they can offer diversion and diversity.

Good luck as you explore. Travel around a bit before making a final stop... continue asking!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The qualifications required for various visas will be specified in the new rules and procedures mandated for INM. They were mandated by November, but are behind schedule and are now expected "after the first of 2012".
So, we're still waiting.
Requirements for 'residente permanente' will be more about how long you have lived in Mexico continuously, on your own resources, and without problems, etc., as they were for 'inmigrado' status.


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## Cebucats (Jun 30, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> The qualifications required for various visas will be specified in the new rules and procedures mandated for INM. They were mandated by November, but are behind schedule and are now expected "after the first of 2012".
> So, we're still waiting.
> Requirements for 'residente permanente' will be more about how long you have lived in Mexico continuously, on your own resources, and without problems, etc., as they were for 'inmigrado' status.


Thanks for the update.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

*Uruapan*

May I throw in my two cents for uruapan, Michoacan? The temperature doesn't fluctuate much. They do have a rainy season, but I am here now, in the dry season and it's perfect. It's further down into the Mexican highlands, east of Mexico City. I am living in an absolutely wonderful hotel called La Charanda, across from the La Charanda mercado, but more importantly, down the street from a mercado that is huge, 1/2 block wide and 3 or 4 stories deep. I'm never sure. Oh, for those gotta have US items, there's a Walmart, a Home Depot, an Office Depot too. I had to go to Walmart to find pickles LOL. I'm making my new friends a Thanksgiving dinner of potato salad (what would it be without pickles?) and rotisserie chicken. Food is everywhere. There's a National Park right in town. Speaking spanish helps a lot here because few speak english, I speak only a little spanish and get along great. My landlady did have to go with me when I had an eye exam. I mean, the people here are wonderful and with the huge mercado, traditionally dressed people are everywhere. 

Have fun.



Cebucats said:


> BTW, Texas might be the way I come. Lived 12 years in Fort Worth area in the 1980's and early 90's.
> 
> David


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

Oops, I meant west of Mexico City. I flew into Guadalajara and took an ETN bus to Uruapan. I sold my car, but taxi is only $2.50US one way, so I don't have any problems getting around.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

JoParsons said:


> ... uruapan, Michoacan... It's further down into the Mexican highlands, east of Mexico City....


Actually, west of Mexico City. Sorry, I can't resist nitpicking.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

Ha ha, I beat you to it!!! Smarty.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

*Bus vs. Plane*

When I flew in the first time, the airline stewards gave us papers to fill out for visas. When my 180 days is up, I plan on using Greyhound to leave and come back into Mexico. Is the same procedure followed or do I need to ask somewhere for the form when coming in via bus?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

First, the FMM tourist permit is not a visa; just a 180 day tourist permit.
When you leave, turn in the FMM that you now have.
When you return to Mexico, you will need to stop at INM (be sure to tell the bus driver to wait for you) and get a new FMM. Bus drivers aren't happy waiting, but you don't want to become an illegal alien by not being clear with him. So, have your passport and money ready to speed your stop at INM. You might be able to get a fresh FMM on your way out, to expedite your INM visit by having it filled out ahead of time. They are not available on buses.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> First, the FMM tourist permit is not a visa; just a 180 day tourist permit.
> When you leave, turn in the FMM that you now have.
> When you return to Mexico, you will need to stop at INM (be sure to tell the bus driver to wait for you) and get a new FMM. Bus drivers aren't happy waiting, but you don't want to become an illegal alien by not being clear with him. So, have your passport and money ready to speed your stop at INM. You might be able to get a fresh FMM on your way out, to expedite your INM visit by having it filled out ahead of time. They are not available on buses.


Great ideas!!! Thanks.


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## tigernerve (Jan 7, 2012)

DNP said:


> FWIW, Mexico is inside America too. If you want to live outside of America you must live on another continent.




Just to let you know, America does not mean the same thing in Spanish as it does in other languages. 

I can not remember in Portuguese, but in French, Dutch, English, German, Sranan and every other language they think of North and South America as separate continents and not one. 

But only in Spanish they are considered combined as one continent and they call the continent America in Spanish. In English it's "The Americas." 

The rest of the world uses the name America for the United States. So in English we can only say North American or South American if you are from one of the continents but not American, that is a nationality in English.

If it makes more sense, think of the word Mexico. It's used for both Mexico City and for the country not for only one. The same for New York City and New York State. 

Nothing negative is implied to the rest of the Americas when someone uses the term American to refer to people from the United States. I hope this makes more sense now.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

Que?


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I can't say I completely agree with that, tigernerve. I have lived in or spent considerable time in Nicaragua, Honduras, Costa Rica, Spain, Argentina and Chile (as well as obviously Mexico) and they all say "las Americas" and consider them as separate continents. 

The only difference I have noted is that Europeans have told me that they learn in school that there are 2 continents, North and South America with South America starting at the US/Mexico border - therefore Mexico is part of South America - whereas those of us who went to school in "the Americas" learn that Mexico is part of North America and that there is a place called Central America that starts south of Mexico and goes down through the Panama/Colombia border where South America starts.

It is my experience that it has to do with where you learned geography, not what language you speak.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

circle110 said:


> The only difference I have noted is that Europeans have told me that they learn in school that there are 2 continents, North and South America with South America starting at the US/Mexico border - therefore Mexico is part of South America - whereas those of us who went to school in "the Americas" learn that Mexico is part of North America and that there is a place called Central America that starts south of Mexico and goes down through the Panama/Colombia border where South America starts.
> 
> It is my experience that it has to do with where you learned geography, not what language you speak.


Thanks for the explanation as to why many Europeans insist on saying that Mexico is in South America. It usually drives me a little nuts, but now I'll be more patient the next time this happens!


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

*On Topic*

:focus: Please, does anyone know what the Mexican immigration office would be called. I'm looking for one in Uruapan; or if none there, in Morelia.


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## tigernerve (Jan 7, 2012)

Do a google search for INM Institute National Migracion or something like that.


Oh, thanks for the interesting info on how geography is done in different places.

Well, I am currently in Chile and my children are taught in school here that the Americas are one continent. Interesting though, here they teach that Mexico is not part of South America but the Caribbean or something like that.

Also here in South America, in English Guyana, Dutch Suriname and French Guiana, they all consider them different continents but in Chile they consider them one.

But the Brazilans also refer to people from the United States as Americans. I've been in South America for over 5 years now, but will be moving to Mexico soon.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

:focus:Again. . . Thanks, I found an online application that I could file online. I at least got the process started.:clap2:



tigernerve said:


> Do a google search for INM Institute National Migracion or something like that.
> 
> 
> Oh, thanks for the interesting info on how geography is done in different places.
> ...


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