# Refusal of CNF and the appeal process



## chasephill

So today the Pole de la Nationalité gave me my letter stating that my request has been refused. I'm crushed. Waited over two years to hear them tell me no. 

So I guess the next step is start the appeal process. This is the reason for refusal listed on the form

"en effet, les actes d'etat civil fourni par l'intéressé présentent des discordances et ne peuvent en consequence se voir reconnaitre force probante au sens de l'article 47 du code civil"

So I looked up article 47 and it says

"Tout acte de l'état civil des Français et des étrangers fait en pays étranger et rédigé dans les formes usitées dans ce pays fait foi, sauf si d'autres actes ou pièces détenus, des données extérieures ou des éléments tirés de l'acte lui-même établissent, le cas échéant après toutes vérifications utiles, que cet acte est irrégulier, falsifié ou que les faits qui y sont déclarés ne correspondent pas à la réalité."

I think I know exactly what's wrong. My grandmothers age on her birth certificate and marriage certificate didn't match. The tribunal asked for an explanation probably a year ago and I tried to explain. My grandmother and grandfather were too young to get married so they lied about their ages. The must be exactly the problem right? I don't know what else it could be.

So has anyone gone through the appeal process before? How much longer should I expect this process to take? How exactly should I explain this discrepancy? The marriage was done in the US and doesn't have anything to do with me, I had no control over what my grandmother did in her youth. 

Any thoughts on this or any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated. I'm sitting here with quite the broken heart tonight and very worried I won't be able explain this away.

Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges

Unfortunately, if you are trying to guess what the problem is, you're possibly up against Ye Olde Rock and a Hard Place. If your application hinges on your grandmother, the age discrepancy could be enough to sabotage your case. Or it could be something else, or a combination of something elses. 

Sit down with all the documents you submitted and trace them through with a skeptical eye (as they apparently did). If this birth date discrepancy is the only possible source of a problem, you're going to have to try and find something to "prove" what happened and that the discrepancy isn't critical. (For example, if your grandmother lied about her age to get married, and was thus under the legal age for marriage, the French could conceivably maintain that the marriage was invalid. If the fact of the marriage was critical to your case, you may have a tough time in appeal.)

They honestly aren't trying to hold you accountable for the "sins" of your grandmother. But they do have to follow the rules as they are written. Back in those days, people were identified by their name, place of birth and date of birth - and if you can't prove your assumption that she simply lied because of being under age, you can't actually prove that this is the same person as the one on the birth certificate. (Yes, they can be real sticklers for this stuff.) They really don't want explanations - they want some sort of documentation they can rely on.

I'm really sorry you have to go through this. But take another good, hard look at what you submitted. Something you missed may come to light and maybe you can find some other document that will aid your case.
Cheers,
Bev


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## chasephill

Thanks for the reply Bev.

I'll go over everything again tonight but that's got to be it. They asked for an explanation about it and when I told them a year ago I also asked if it was going to be a problem, they just said they didn't know.

Besides explaining the situation again what else could I provide as proof? Should I try and have my grandmother get the marriage certificate fixed back home and get and apostle and translation and resubmit it as part of the appeal? If thats even possible. Should I get her to write a statement about it and submit it? What could I do to prove it isn't critical to my case, because it isn't really. I mean I could have just left it out and said she wasn't ever married, whether she was or wasn't doesn't change the links between me, my father, and her.

Time to scrounge up all my copies I guess.


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## 95995

chasephill said:


> Thanks for the reply Bev.
> 
> I'll go over everything again tonight but that's got to be it. They asked for an explanation about it and when I told them a year ago I also asked if it was going to be a problem, they just said they didn't know.
> 
> Besides explaining the situation again what else could I provide as proof? Should I try and have my grandmother get the marriage certificate fixed back home and get and apostle and translation and resubmit it as part of the appeal? If thats even possible. Should I get her to write a statement about it and submit it? What could I do to prove it isn't critical to my case, because it isn't really. I mean I could have just left it out and said she wasn't ever married, whether she was or wasn't doesn't change the links between me, my father, and her.
> 
> Time to scrounge up all my copies I guess.


You may need to do both. If your grandmother has other ID documents with the correct date of birth, certified copies of those might also help. It might be worth checking back with the Pole to determine that this is in fact the issue. If it's only the marriage certificate that has a different date, but you have other proof of your grandmother' birth and identity, and other proof that you are indeed her grandchild, that might also help, but you would probably also need to reference the law that provides that the marriage is not relevant (and perhaps check that that was the case at the time). Sorry I don't have time currently to search for the link to the law.

Good luck with the appeal.


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## chasephill

Does anyone know how long you have to make the appeal? 

I've almost got my paperwork ready but I'm at almost two months. What's the deadline to get this stuff turned back in?

Thanks


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## VERITE1

Certificat de nationalité française - Service-public.fr

As you will see from this link, there is no time limit for making an appeal.

You can either appeal directly to the Ministère de la Justice (recours gracieux) explaining the discrepancy and sending all the relevant paperwork together with everything you have been able to gather proving your good faith, including if possible a document from your grandmother, or you can make a recours contentieux at the Tribunal d'Instance, for this you must be represented by a lawyer.

Might be worth trying the Ministère first, and if they refuse heading for the Tribunal.

Good luck.


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## chasephill

So there was no problem with the time it took to get everything turned in. Also seems like I got everything they needed or wanted, I got this last week










Seems good ya? Anyone have a guess how long I'll be waiting now that I got this letter. I'm at 28 months in total so far.

BTW, it only took one month took get this letter from when I submitted my new paperwork, that was a lot quicker than expected to hear anything at all.


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## 95995

I would expect it to take between several months and a year, but at least you know they have your request and that it will be considered. What you have received amounts to an acknowledgement of your request for review (which has taken a month, but of course it was holiday season). Plus you know that they are requesting the necessary detail from Toulouse in order to be able to undertake the review. So far, so good, but you will need to be patient. 

Maybe someone else on here has appealed the decision and can advise you how long it took for their application to be reviewed and a decision made.

I'd probably be inclined to write a formal letter at the 6-12 months mark if you haven't heard anything further asking if they can advise you of progress to date.

Good luck!


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## chasephill

Just wanted to update in case anyone else sees this that is going through a similar appeal process or has before in the past. 

It's been six months since I received the acknowledgment letter concerning my appeal. I've heard absolutely nothing in those six months. I'm guessing that's to be expected but I can never shake that fear that my file will just get lost somewhere. 

Anyone have anymore insight to offer? I know I should expect six to twelve months to hear anything but I've already been waiting about 33 months in total so I can't help but feel a bit of impatience here.


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## chasephill

It's been 3 years and 3 months so far. I feel like giving up.

I've never heard back again since apealing their decision, it's been about 11 months since I got their acknowledgment letter. Now I'm about to move to a different country in about a month.

I don't know what to do, I feel crushed.


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## 95995

chasephill said:


> It's been 3 years and 3 months so far. I feel like giving up.
> 
> I've never heard back again since apealing their decision, it's been about 11 months since I got their acknowledgment letter. Now I'm about to move to a different country in about a month.
> 
> I don't know what to do, I feel crushed.


Sorry to hear that, however from what I recall your case is a complicated one and it will take time and resources to consider your appeal.


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## moonsongshiva

chasephill said:


> It's been 3 years and 3 months so far. I feel like giving up.
> 
> I've never heard back again since apealing their decision, it's been about 11 months since I got their acknowledgment letter. Now I'm about to move to a different country in about a month.
> 
> I don't know what to do, I feel crushed.


Hi,

I am in the same situation. Did you receive CNF for your appeal?

Thanks in advance.

Regards


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## shillingfordjoel

Any updates??


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