# Anti tourist



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Is this affecting any members ?

Anti-tourist protest group Arran vows to ramp up campaign against Mallorca holidaymakers | Olive Press News Spain

​Slashed tyres and smoke bombs: Left-wing anti-tourist protests in Barcelona spread to Mallorca

Spain's tourism riots: Protests by anti-tourism activists hit Brits on holiday in Majorca | World | News | Express.co.uk


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Arran is a small group of stupids that never has been working usually are sons of a acommodated famillies, they deserve one or two years in a jail and pay all his desperfects.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Is this affecting any members ?
> 
> Anti-tourist protest group Arran vows to ramp up campaign against Mallorca holidaymakers | Olive Press News Spain
> 
> ...


I have friends currently holidaying in Mallorca - they have had zero bad experiences and have been there for 2-3 weeks so far. But they're arguably high-end tourists.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Half a dozen idiots, not really an anti tourist revolution


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There does come a point where the advantages and disadvantages of tourism don't balance. I can understand why locals in Barcelona and Magaluf are pissed off.

A couple of months ago we had dinner in Estepona with some Belgian friends who are new to the area. After our dinner we took a leisurely stroll through the old town, which is truly beautiful especially at night. I suppose it was just after midnight, we were chatting, apart from our voices no sound and I thought it must be hell for residents here in the summer with people wandering around noisily until the early hours. I remember once in Boulogne with a group of colleagues we rolled home somewhat boisterously from a good dinner and had a bucket of some liquid or other chucked over us from an upstairs window.
Estepona has seen a marked increase in tourism in the past five years which is good as it's family tourism and the town hasn't much else to live from. But rents and house prices have soared and in the future it's going to be hard for young Esteponeros to find somewhere affordable to live. 
The town is becoming an all-year-round resort which is good for employment but even so come October and the unemployment figures will rise again.
I must say I dread the summer months which is a cheek, I suppose, as I'm a residential tourist, sort of, albeit of nine years standing. But I long for autumn when I can find a place to park, don't have to stand in queues at the checkout while British visitors laboriously count out euros and cents to the cashier and I can go to our local restaurant without having my dinner spoiled by badly behaved uncontrolled kids(usually British).
But then I'm a miserable sod at the best of times..


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Saw a photo of gondolas in Venice this week, no water visible and tourist packed shoulder to shoulder with the neighbouring craft. Totally lacking in atmosphere, looked like a fairground ride. Glad I went years ago on a misty March morning. I don't think tourists are necessarily bad behaved just that they have different priorities than residents. I would never go on holiday in August but sadly some don't have any choice. Living in London for years I suppose I got more tolerant of visitors.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I sure it's all very much a case of NIMBYism of which we are all guilty, everybody agrees tourism is a good thing but not if I can't park my car!

We have tourism here in Extremadura, I live in what is known as the "golden triangle " we have Merida, Cáceres and Trujillo all ancients towns two of which are world heritage sites, no more than 45 minutes away, then there is Guadalupe another world heritage site (yet still to be visited) an hour away. Our local village is known for its famous Ibierican Jamón and cathedrals of Jamón. Visitors here tend to be of the cultural types rather than the beer and vodka tonic kind, however they can still be rude to locals and abrasive, many are Spanish, French and Dutch a few Brits. My local village is trying to increase tourism and rather than sell the world heritage sites and the Famous Jamons, we are going for "sporting" tourism so we have had mountain bike tracks and competitions, midnight mountain marathons! A local paragliding club is slowly starting, another village near us is very Muslims ch a " horsey" village, and is heading in that direction. When I was talking to the mayor about all of this, she was saying that they want to do this very very slowly, over a period of many years as does the Junta here. They cite Andalucía and the costas as the way not to go, they want gradual infrastructure to be put in, they don't want the drinkers they want the " proper" spenders, not people who spend all their money in Dave's seaside bar or Berts fish and chips. They want it to be the best known secret 

Long ramble, point being, just like the anti foreigner sentimentality post B in the U.K. a few people ranting does not a Summer make. It was bound to happen as Mary said for all sorts of reasons, but here tourists are welcomed and actively being recruited, as long as they don't take all the parking spaces at the market on Saturday mornings. and as any sensible local will tell you far better to go to the tourist places out of season


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Also check out the Airbnb protests in Barcelona and the effects of changes in technology and other Silicon Valley innovations, that are changing the world today in the BBC documentary - The Secrets of Silicon Valley.

First shown on Sunday - there's a repeat tonight on BBC2 at 11:15 BST or see it again on 
BBC I-Player below:

BBC - The Secrets of Silicon Valley episode one


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Where there are a lot of tourists from one country their bars set up. On the CDS there are a few Dutch bars, German bakeries etc. Travel around Cadiz province and you can find quieter places Only saw one Brit themed bar in Sorrento. A couple of chiringuito owners I know complain about Madrilenos, say they are too demanding. Old money from Madrid always went to Northern Spain away from intense heat.

Some suggestions here for quieter holidays in Spain includes Extremadura.

20 places in Spain you never thought to visit (but really should)


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Arran are a pro-Catalan independence, anti-capitalist group of self-proclaimed anarchists who have opted to use violence to promote their cause, thus losing the support of the vast majority of locals many of whose livelihoods depend on tourism.

A far more effective way to deal with the problems caused by excessive numbers of tourists (I can't say mass tourism or Mary will be on my back) is by regulation, e.g. restricting the supply of accommodation. Mallorca and Barcelona ar already clamping down on Airbnb, and Ibiza are banning the use of public beaches for DJ clubs. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...own-on-illegal-apartment-rentals-in-barcelona

https://www.thelocal.es/20170330/palma-de-mallorca-wants-to-ban-tourist-apartment-summer-rentals

Ibiza authorities ban DJs from beach clubs to reclaim beaches from dance music - News - Mixmag


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

To be fair let's keep this accurate 

They have NOT used violence


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Where there are a lot of tourists from one country their bars set up. On the CDS there are a few Dutch bars, German bakeries etc. Travel around Cadiz province and you can find quieter places Only saw one Brit themed bar in Sorrento. A couple of chiringuito owners I know complain about Madrilenos, say they are too demanding. Old money from Madrid always went to Northern Spain away from intense heat.
> 
> Some suggestions here for quieter holidays in Spain includes Extremadura.
> 
> 20 places in Spain you never thought to visit (but really should)


Well that will ruin those places then. T/G they haven't publicised our hideouts.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

It's all lies Extremadura is an awful place... don't come 😂😂😂😂


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Megsmum said:


> It's all lies Extremadura is an awful place... don't come


Nearly as bad as Jaén, the beaches are lousy - not one blue flag anywhere.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Well that will ruin those places then. T/G they haven't publicised our hideouts.


I didn't realise you were the Lord of your local manor, Baldi...

'Ruin' is in the eye of the beholder. You are a Brit in your town just as I and the rest of us are. Just because we live here doesn't give us rights of exclusive ownership or confer some special status, does it...
It may well be that there are a few miserable old gits in your town who wish you and other guiris hadn't come to 'ruin' their Spanish hideaway. Others with an eye to the money they could make from us may well wish there were more foreigners around.

As I said, there has to be a balance. As Alca said, regulation as proposed in Barcelona is the way to go. A curb on new hotels where there is already adequate capacity and a crack down on illegal holiday lets.

Yes, I dislike the word 'mass' being applied to anything as for too many people the word 'mass' means everybody but me (I know Alca doesn't mean it in that way). Like the old tourist/traveller distinction.

Some time ago The Guardian did a feature on hidden gems in Europe, those quaint little villages and beaches as yet 'undiscovered' - bet that's news to the folk in the next village. I had a twinge of sympathy for the inevitable surge (mass?) of middle class discerning travellers about to descend on these poor innocent folk, all so keen to enjoy those tomatoes with a taste only found in those grown in Spain, to the local wine you could never find in Waitrose (probably a good reason for that) and those authentic regional dishes usually consumed in pricey eateries where locals couldn't afford a plate of said tomatoes.

So to sum up: yes, the number of visitors, whether the more discerning or the vulgar beer swilling sort , need to be regulated. I think if Brexit actually occurs Brits will regulate themselves anyway, having to cope with the fall in sterling and the queues to go through non-EU immigration.
The next wave, already growing in size, will be Scandinavians and Finns. We are noticing that at the perrera.

Me, I hate the bloody summer months. As I said, takes ages to find a parking space, these damned tourists block the aisles in the local supermarket, some of their kids should be on leads....but that's me and I know in my better moments that it's a rather selfish mean-spirited attitude. After all, I live in Spain, I didn't buy the place.
And those tourists/travellers will be gone in a week or two and I'm here for the duration....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> To be fair let's keep this accurate
> 
> They have NOT used violence


OK, but if I was enjoying a meal in a restaurant and a gang started throwing fireworks into the room which exploded and filled the room with red smoke, I would feel somewhat violated.

The latest exploit is stickers on hire cars in Mallorca - "one car too many".

https://politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/08/09/actualidad/1502276714_923031.html


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It's difficult if not impossible to distinguish what are the true feelings of the majority of local residents. These anarchist groups are often composed of middle class people telling ordinary folk what's good for them.
This is a very complex issue throwing up all sorts of conflicting views. I read a Guardian comment which referred to 'nauseating groups of cruise ship passengers descending on places like Venice'.
Since many of these 'nauseating' people may well be newly-wealthy Asians or Africans, I'm sure right-on Guardianistas will be making accusations of racism...To me, it stinks of elitism.
One thing is for sure: effective action can be taken only be local, regional and national authorities.
Monitoring new hotel developments, enforcing the existing licensing laws for holiday lets, proactive policing of busy tourist areas, enforcing of local by-laws regulating clothing away from the beach and behaviour in general will all eventually have a calming effect.
I don't go along with this 'I found this lovely unspoilt spot and I want to keep it for myself' mentality. I spent a lot of time in Prague and Krakow in the 1970s under socialist rule and loved both those cities then...no advertising, no western consumerism, lovely old (crumbling) buildings, everyone dressed in the same poor quality clothing, hardly any tourists...Now these cities are like most other western European cities, touristy, crowded, stag and hen party destinations. Not to my taste any more.
But then I can't expect the residents of Prague and Krakow to live in a museum to suit me. I'd say from my experience that the majority are happy wit the changes, happy to be part of the mainstream.
Spain isn't a museum either. Recently the Management Board decided to modernise our Flamenco Club. Before it was low-ceilinged, stuffy, dimly lit, tiled walls and floors but now the ceiling has been raised, the tiles and pillars removed, air-con installed and laminated wood-effect flooring laid. Brits prefer it as it was, the Spaniards are proud of their 'modern' club, fit for the twenty-first century, as the President said in his speech at the opening.

Spain like other countries moves with the times, even if some of us -and yes, I would include myself) often wish it wouldn't. But we didn't buy it to pickle it when we came here and indeed we have no right to want to. My area lives off tourism, thankfully the quiet sort (at the moment) but tourism nevertheless. And yes, it's still the 'real' Spain.

And we often forget that consumerism isn't caused solely by the capitalist greed of big business. Social democratic government policy and trades union pressure have combined to put more money in working people's pockets so they can enjoy what used to be the privilege of the wealthy.
I'm all for that even if it gets up the noses of the elitists.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Madrid is now taking action to reduce the adverse effects of _turistifcaci¡on _.

Basically the problem is that in certain districts, too many people are letting out their flats to tourists on Airbnb. This makes it unbearable for the remaining residents, and is pushing up the price of accommodation beyond the reach of local people. It's also p1ssing off legitimate hotel and hostal owners who have to go to the trouble of getting licences etc.

So Madrid are taking measures to spread the distribution of tourists throughout the city, reducing pressure on the central district (e.g. by placing noise restrictions on popular open-air spaces) and redistributing the economic benefits to other areas.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espa...ena-turismo-pisos-turisiticos-centro_1426347/


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> It's difficult if not impossible to distinguish what are the true feelings of the majority of local residents.


Not that difficult actually.

Desahuciados por la turistificación: “Me tiran de casa para alquilarla en Airbnb”

(Evicted through mass tourism - I was thrown out of my house so they could let it on Airbnb)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Not that difficult actually.
> 
> Desahuciados por la turistificación: “Me tiran de casa para alquilarla en Airbnb”
> 
> (Evicted through mass tourism - I was thrown out of my house so they could let it on Airbnb)


But disgusting though that is, those unfortunate people aren't a majority, are they....

I'm guessing a few are very anti, like the people evicted, a few are quite happy to make money renting their apartments or spare rooms (maybe some are obliged to to make ends meet) and the rest don't care one way or another.

Isn't that usually the case, though...


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Nearly as bad as Jaén, the beaches are lousy - not one blue flag anywhere.


It's funny - I can wax lyrical about Asturias and yet the tourists and pensioners retiring to Spain haven't once posted - Moving to or visiting Asturias, advice sought.

ound:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> It's funny - I can wax lyrical about Asturias and yet the tourists and pensioners retiring to Spain haven't once posted - Moving to or visiting Asturias, advice sought.
> 
> ound:


The same applies to Jaén, great isn't it?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Yep. We are off límits too


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

An interesting French report, unfortunately not particularly in-depth, but it does provide some insights. https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/geopolitique/geopolitique-11-aout-2017.

You will see (if you can read French) that the Mayor of Barcelona has banned all electric 2-wheel forms of transport in Barcelona city centre - with good reason.

IMHO some cities are now past the tipping point in terms of tourism, in part because of the rapid increases in numbers, in part because of the extent to which accommodation has gone to Airbnb and the impacts of that.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> An interesting French report, unfortunately not particularly in-depth, but it does provide some insights. https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/geopolitique/geopolitique-11-aout-2017.
> 
> You will see (if you can read French) that the Mayor of Barcelona has banned all electric 2-wheel forms of transport in Barcelona city centre - with good reason.
> 
> IMHO some cities are now past the tipping point in terms of tourism, in part because of the rapid increases in numbers, in part because of the extent to which accommodation has gone to Airbnb and the impacts of that.


Not particularly accurate, so don't waste time over it.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Not particularly accurate, so don't waste time over it.


It's not seeking to provide solid statistics - it's a report on the banning of 2-wheel electric forms of transport in Barcelona with allusions to the issues behind that and impacts of tourism.

However, if you wish to specifically point out inaccuracies, it would be helpful if you would do so, rather than making the type of comment you have - so I would say that people definitely should not waste time with your inane comment.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> It's not seeking to provide solid statistics - it's a report on the banning of 2-wheel electric forms of transport in Barcelona with allusions to the issues behind that and impacts of tourism.
> 
> However, if you wish to specifically point out inaccuracies, it would be helpful if you would do so, rather than making the type of comment you have - so I would say that people definitely should not waste time with your inane comment.


I was puzzled by Baldi's comment too. 

Anyway, these electric scooters and segways are a menace in crowded places. I was staying in Albaicin, the Moorish quarter of Granada, a couple of years ago and groups of them came clattering up the cobbled streets at quite a speed. You had to jump out of the way PDQ - though often the crowded narrow pavements meant there was nowhere to jump to! They should be restricted to cycle lanes.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> It's not seeking to provide solid statistics - it's a report on the banning of 2-wheel electric forms of transport in Barcelona with allusions to the issues behind that and impacts of tourism.
> 
> However, if you wish to specifically point out inaccuracies, it would be helpful if you would do so, rather than making the type of comment you have - so I would say that people definitely should not waste time with your inane comment.


So you don't like it when somebody questions or casts doubt on one of your posts but you are quite content to be negative about everybody else's posts.

It is not ALL forms of two wheeled electric powered transport that have been banned, only the Segway and hoverboard type being used in pedestrian areas. Other types of two-wheeled electric powered items such as bicycles and scooters used on the roads are not banned.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> So you don't like it when somebody questions or casts doubt on one of your posts but you are quite content to be negative about everybody else's posts.
> 
> It is not ALL forms of two wheeled electric powered transport that have been banned, only the Segway and hoverboard type being used in pedestrian areas. Other types of two-wheeled electric powered items such as bicycles and scooters used on the roads are not banned.


On the *roads*, Baldi.

Clearly, though, you have an issue with me, since you consider that I "make negative posts about everybody else's posts". Clearly you don't appreciate me disagreeing with you from time to time.

Although, of course, the French report may not have the issue of fines quite right.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> An interesting French report, unfortunately not particularly in-depth, but it does provide some insights. https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/geopolitique/geopolitique-11-aout-2017.
> 
> You will see (if you can read French) that the Mayor of Barcelona has banned all electric 2-wheel forms of transport in Barcelona city centre - with good reason.


Here it is in English. They are banning electric scooters, bicycle taxis, electric skateboards and segways in the centre of Barcelona for a six month trial period, and it doesn't apply to local residents.

The bicycle taxi drivers are angry because they were not consulted beforehand and are losing their livelihood.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/08/10/inenglish/1502355355_253869.html


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

More on the disastrous effect of Airbnb rentals on ordinary people.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/08/07/inenglish/1502107082_468230.html?rel=lom



> Then there are those like teacher Natalia Aguilló, 34. She has to return to her parents in Valencia every summer because her shared apartment [in Palma de Mallorca] gets rented out for €1,600 a week during the high season. “I come back in September but it’s awkward having to move twice a year. You can’t plan to settle down or have a family. I have been asked for as much as €10,000 a month in rent in Ibiza.” On a salary of €900, Sergio, a computer engineer, pays €650 for a room with a shared bathroom and kitchen.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

France is the second biggest market in the world for Airbnb (second to the US). In cities such as Paris, Strasbourg and Lyon, as well as Nice, properties let on Airbnb have to be registered irrespective of the period of time p.a. they are rented on Airbnb (whereas elsewhere registration does not apply unless rented more than 6 months p.a.). I saw a report yesterday at about fines for non-compliant Airbnb rentals in Paris - apparently fines being meted by the courts have virtually doubled, as have the number of fines, in the past year. There was another recent story about the low taxes paid by Airbnb in France - Airbnb has its European office in Ireland (low taxes, IIRC 12.5%), meaning that their presence in France is solely marketing because payments go through Ireland. France is hoping to persuade the EU to regulate so that companies pay tax in the EU country where the income is derived (don't know how that will go, nor how long it could take).


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

'Just unbelievable' Spanish PM SPEECHLESS as Spain tourist backlash hits Canary Islands | World | News | Express.co.uk


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> 'Just unbelievable' Spanish PM SPEECHLESS as Spain tourist backlash hits Canary Islands | World | News | Express.co.uk


Will this sort of press coverage put people off coming to Spain, do you think?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Will this sort of press coverage put people off coming to Spain, do you think?



No

No more than stupid people in the U.K. Stop tourism there, It's sensationalism and a minority. 

If everyone was put off by these events, everyone would go on holiday to Bognor 
......

Or not

https://www.police.uk/sussex/WA1NH5/crime/stats/


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

My wife had a woman yell "go home, tourist" at her a few days ago, but I sympathize with people who live in Barceloneta and Barri Gotic in Barcelona. Tourists pee, puke and have sex in the streets all the time. The current tax on cruise ships is 1 or 2 euros. I think they could raise it exponentially every year, use the additional money to hire people to clean up the damage done by tourists and hire more police to throw tourists in jail when they break the law. I think the cruise tax could be 50 euros a person and not even reduce tourism in Barcelona.

Many countries charge a tourist tax to internationals arrivals at the airport. Spain could do the same thing. Bhutan has a large tourist tax per day spent in the country. I would guess that have 99.99% less pee, puke and sex in the streets.

Venice should charge a tourist tax to tourists who arrive by airplane, boat or vehicle. It would be easy to implement since there are so few ways to arrive on the island/peninsula.

I say this as someone who loves to travel, and liked Venice a lot when I was there 13 years ago.


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## movedtospain2010 (Jul 28, 2017)

Tourist Tax is a good idea to me too. They are already doing that in Mallorca at the hotels.. but it's barely noticeable they definitely have to raise it like you say.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Given that cruise ship passengers generally spend very little in port (even most of the tours that passengers do are pre-booked and many prefer to eat on board, being of the view that they have paid for the meals) and cruise ships pollute, I definitely agree that there should be a tax levied.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Will this sort of press coverage put people off coming to Spain, do you think?


Spain's loss will be Greece's gain, if the protests get worse I've no doubt people will think twice about going to Spain.

The average family get one chance at their two weeks in the sun and if the threat of disruption, real or perceived gets worse many will look elsewhere...can't blame them really.

Spain is no longer the really cheap option for a family holiday. All inclusive resorts are popping up all over the world. In May, my son had two weeks all inclusive on Cuba for a grand, my wife and I are paying £1300 each for two weeks on Cyprus.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Will this sort of press coverage put people off coming to Spain, do you think?


I don't think it will. Most holiday in tourist areas like Benidorm etc.and locals are friendly as it is their living. I think the media have sensationalised it and maybe the problem is due to Airbnb which has led to tourists spilling over into residential areas. I must admit I would be a bit peed off if those with placards stood in front of my sun lounger as in one photo. Seems to be happening in other countries too.

Two years ago we spent a week in Puerto Rico whilst Island hopping. We stayed at a Sheraton. To the right on the beach there was a sign which said Sheraton stole our beach, even though there was miles and miles of empty beach as far as the eye could see.

Whilst holidays remain cheap tourism will increase. Had an email from BA last week offering short breaks for end of August. 2 nights hotel and flight. Barcelona £129. We have booked a Rome one for £158. Very attractive for stag parties, hopefully not the Rome one


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

bob_bob said:


> Spain's loss will be Greece's gain, if the protests get worse I've no doubt people will think twice about going to Spain.
> 
> The average family get one chance at their two weeks in the sun and if the threat of disruption, real or perceived gets worse many will look elsewhere...can't blame them really.
> 
> Spain is no longer the really cheap option for a family holiday. All inclusive resorts are popping up all over the world. In May, my son had two weeks all inclusive on Cuba for a grand, my wife and I are paying £1300 each for two weeks on Cyprus.


I would recommend Cuba, go before it changes.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

It's not going to be an issue at all. People have always travelled on holiday in the modern era.

We went to South Africa ona self drive tour, my parents were apoplectic, we would be hijacked, raked and beaten.... I went to Orlando when tourists were being attacked in their cars, Tunisia when it was embarking on its tourism. Egypt, New York 9/11. A few chants won't stop anyone coming. People still go to Paris, New York 

Seems to me a bit of a non post


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Which post? Or all 5 pages


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## Michael Kelly (May 30, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> A few chants won't stop anyone coming. People still go to Paris, New York
> 
> Seems to me a bit of a non post


Paris and New York are unique destinations. Other countries offer similar tourism products to Spains "sol y playa"


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Michael Kelly said:


> Paris and New York are unique destinations. Other countries offer similar tourism products to Spains "sol y playa"


Yes, as is Barcelona. I guess it depends what you're looking for - cheap is available in a great many places (a holiday in Thailand, even with airfares from Europe, for example). Sun and beach are available in many places. However, for some it's about the experience, rather than low cost, beach and sun. 

I doubt it will make much of a dint in areas across the various countries that are experiencing protests, but even a slight decrease would probably be a good thing. 

What is required is balance, I don't think anyone wants zero tourism (nor anything approaching that).


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Michael Kelly said:


> Paris and New York are unique destinations. Other countries offer similar tourism products to Spains "sol y playa"


The many tourists from all over the world who visit the likes of Granada, Sevilla and Cordoba to mention just a few of the world class historical cities Spain has to offer (and what about Santiago de Compostela and the Camino de Santiago?) must think the country has more to offer than sol y playa.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> The many tourists from all over the world who visit the likes of Granada, Sevilla and Cordoba to mention just a few of the world class historical cities Spain has to offer (and what about Santiago de Compostela and the Camino de Santiago?) must think the country has more to offer than sol y playa.


Or the many less well known places that offer insights into Spain's heritage, natural history, etc. such as XXXXXX and YYYYY and ZZZZZ - No I'm not going to spell them out otherwise they will become less 'less well known' and lose their beauty with hoards of tourists tramping ll over them.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Michael Kelly said:


> Paris and New York are unique destinations. Other countries offer similar tourism products to Spains "sol y playa"



I don't think they're unique at all, many hundreds of thousands of people travel to those two cities, they are no more unique than any other city break weekend. There are very few unique destinations left now, the world is very small. When I was 16 Benidorm seemed exotic now it's a hen party haven, Cuba, New York, Chicago just destinations one saw in TV. The Maldives, every man and his dog goes there for a honeymoon or romantic retreat, They too had terrible riots in the main city.... still a tops honeymoon destination.

Isobel.... the thread in general...... people are not going to be put off by a few protests........ the pound exchange rate yes, poor service yes, costs of holidays yes...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> I would recommend Cuba, go before it changes.


We went in 1993, I think it has already changed quite a lot since then.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Agree, even the terrible terror attack in Nice hasn't put them off. Not sure the exchange rate will either, unless it sinks to less than parity.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> We went in 1993, I think it has already changed quite a lot since then.


Yes, many more hotels years since I went too but Havana still looks the same on TV. Of course many don't get farther than an all inclusive beach place.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2017)

We went to cuba in 1989 and again in 1995......massive change in just those 6 years.....probably wouldn't recognise the place now.....regarding people not being put off going to places that have had attacks....depends on the actual place.... Sharm el Sheik is now deserted, Tunisian tourism is in tatters etc


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> Yes, many more hotels years since I went too but Havana still looks the same on TV. Of course many don't get farther than an all inclusive beach place.


I always think that's such a waste. When we were there (whilst my OH was working for a large UK holiday company) there were some other staff from the company staying at our hotel (which wasn't AI). They really did not leave the hotel grounds even once in a fortnight. As well as Havana we visited Santiago de Cuba, Trinidad, Matanzas, and queued for one of the infrequent local buses one day to an unremarkable neighbouring town, just to try to get some idea of what life was like for ordinary people in ordinary places outside of a holiday resort. All the people we met were really welcoming and friendly, there was no attempt to stop us talking freely to anybody and never were we hassled or asked for money, although there were offers to sell us cigars or rum - some of the few things that were freely available, unlike in the shops whose shelves were practically bare. We always remember the large, double fronted shop we came acrosss which had, bizarrely, a large number of cheese graters displayed in the window - but you couldn't buy cheese for love nor money!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Agree, even the terrible terror attack in Nice hasn't put them off. Not sure the exchange rate will either, unless it sinks to less than parity.


Having said that, we as a family have delayed a Trip to WDW Florida, planned for next year because of Trump..... why you ask... my son in law has a Eastern European name as has my Grandson...... As a very expensive family trip we are not willing to risk some Neanderthal customs officer who doesn't understand the difference between an Albanian Catholic and an ISIS terrorist  We've delayed for another two years, see how land lies. Off to Paris Disney instead for a long weekend.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I always think that's such a waste. When we were there (whilst my OH was working for a large UK holiday company) there were some other staff from the company staying at our hotel (which wasn't AI). They really did not leave the hotel grounds even once in a fortnight. As well as Havana we visited Santiago de Cuba, Trinidad, Matanzas, and queued for one of the infrequent local buses one day to an unremarkable neighbouring town, just to try to get some idea of what life was like for ordinary people in ordinary places outside of a holiday resort. All the people we met were really welcoming and friendly, there was no attempt to stop us talking freely to anybody and never were we hassled or asked for money, although there were offers to sell us cigars or rum - some of the few things that were freely available, unlike in the shops whose shelves were practically bare. We always remember the large, double fronted shop we came acrosss which had, bizarrely, a large number of cheese graters displayed in the window - but you couldn't buy cheese for love nor money!


We went on a tour of Eastern Cuba (not Havana) in 1997 with a minbus full of teachers and a lovely guide called Vladimir Reyes. He certainly took us to the parts other tour companies didn't reach... we even drove round the perimeter fence at Guantanamo. I don't remember whether there was any cheese but I consumed an awful lot of mangos and rum!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Back to topic, I don't think anyone who wants to holiday in Spain will change their mind because of the protests. They might choose to go to a different resort or city but that wouldn't be a bad thing. People didn't stop going to Greece because of refugees on the beaches in ******, they just went to different islands.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Back to topic, I don't think anyone who wants to holiday in Spain will change their mind because of the protests. They might choose to go to a different resort or city but that wouldn't be a bad thing. People didn't stop going to Greece because of refugees on the beaches in ******, they just went to different islands.


I don't think so, either. The longer and more expensive flights to long haul destinations would put a lot of families off those places, security worries have scared many off Turkey, Eqypt, Morrocco and Tunisia, and the remainder of the warmer destinations such as Cyprus, Portugal etc. just don't have enough capacity to accommodate the volume of tourists who come to Spain.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2017)

Morocco: The U.K Foreign office issued a warning a few months back about visiting certain areas of Morocco especially the North of the country


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

PapaWemba said:


> Morocco: The U.K Foreign office issued a warning a few months back about visiting certain areas of Morocco especially the North of the country


But has that put people off? I know lots of people who still go there, but have no idea whether tourism has reduced. France has more overseas tourism this year, despite terrorism (although the presence of armed forces on the streets and the extent of bag searches seems to make most tourists feel more confident), the ongoing state of emergency, and also despite the huge fires in the south and Corsica. OTOH I do know of French people who have decided not to go to Spain this year (not because of the protests, mind you - they just seem to find it generally less attractive), but I doubt there is any statistical reduction in tourism. Has to be said, though, that the French seem to have no issues with holidaying in France.

I did read an article that suggested that more Brits are holidaying in the UK this year, apparently because of the drop in value of sterling - can't say whether the article had any validity, although I suspect that for some the exchange rate could make a difference.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> But has that put people off? I know lots of people who still go there, but have no idea whether tourism has reduced. France has more overseas tourism this year, despite terrorism (although the presence of armed forces on the streets and the extent of bag searches seems to make most tourists feel more confident), the ongoing state of emergency, and also despite the huge fires in the south and Corsica. OTOH I do know of French people who have decided not to go to Spain this year (not because of the protests, mind you - they just seem to find it generally less attractive), but I doubt there is any statistical reduction in tourism. Has to be said, though, that the French seem to have no issues with holidaying in France.
> 
> I did read an article that suggested that more Brits are holidaying in the UK this year, apparently because of the drop in value of sterling - can't say whether the article had any validity, although I suspect that for some the exchange rate could make a difference.


I agree it's not going to put off people visiting countries... horses for courses and all that. 

Sometimes I get the feeling that certain individuals would like other countries to fail.... but there you are.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2017)

EverHopeful said:


> But has that put people off?


Yes is the short answer it has. You only need to Google "Tourism Decline Morocco" and you'll see many articles documenting the decline in the number of tourists visiting the country, especially from France. But currently things have showed improvement during the 1st Qtr 2017


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

PapaWemba said:


> Yes is the short answer it has. You only need to Google "Tourism Decline Morocco" and you'll see many articles documenting the decline in the number of tourists visiting the country, especially from France. *But currently things have showed improvement during the 1st Qtr 2017*


That's the same as in France - international tourism dropped off last year, but has significantly increased this year. AFAIK nothing has really changed in either Morocco or France.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2017)

Well that would seem very much as to whom you care to believe for the correct information

Paris tourist numbers drop due to fears over further terror attacks | The Independent

Or the opposite view 

French tourism rebounds two years after start of terror attacks - France 24

Both article published a fortnight apart earlier this year


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

PapaWemba said:


> Well that would seem very much as to whom you care to believe for the correct information
> 
> Paris tourist numbers drop due to fears over further terror attacks | The Independent
> 
> ...


Well, I read and watch French news. 

*It's worth noting, though, that Paris is not the whole of France - one article is about Paris, the other about France. One article is about the whole of 2016, the other is about the last quarter of 2016. 
*
The news I see here in France (in French) is about tourism numbers during the first half of 2017.

Your argument appears to be half-baked.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2017)

No argument here, just what is in the press, differing reports from differing media outlets and if you read what i'd written i did say "things have showed improvement during the 1st Qtr 2017" ..../SNIP/


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## Michael Kelly (May 30, 2017)

EverHopeful said:


> Well, I read and watch French news.


And you are posting in the Spain forum.


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Michael Kelly said:


> And you are posting in the Spain forum.


And the post EH was replying to was about tourism in France....hardly helpful posting about Spain in that reply  

PS....the title of this thread is anti tourist...no mention of a particular country and threads tend to deviate sometimes before getting back on track.


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

The Highlands and Islands are packed this year. Not enough beds and many campsites full. Have seen lots of campervans parked in random spaces wherever they can get


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

cermignano said:


> The Highlands and Islands are packed this year. Not enough beds and many campsites full. Have seen lots of campervans parked in random spaces wherever they can get


That's a great pity. One of the beauties of the Highlands and Islands was that, for the most part, they hadn't been "discovered" and those bits that had been were so well publicised that one could give them a miss.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Michael Kelly said:


> And you are posting in the Spain forum.


I'm well aware of that.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> That's a great pity. One of the beauties of the Highlands and Islands was that, for the most part, they hadn't been "discovered" and those bits that had been were so well publicised that one could give them a miss.



Double edged sword I'm afraid... why should people not get the benefits of seeing the beauty of The highlands.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Megsmum said:


> Double edged sword I'm afraid... why should people not get the benefits of seeing the beauty of The highlands.


None at all but an over attendance of tourists in such an area spoils the sight of natural beauty in its own setting.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> None at all but an over attendance of tourists in such an area spoils the sight of natural beauty in its own setting.


I get your point but how do you stop people wanting to see these places. Restrictions? That usually means expensive and then only those who can afford it get to see beautiful places.


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Megsmum said:


> I get your point but how do you stop people wanting to see these places. * Restrictions*? That usually means expensive and then only those who can afford it get to see beautiful places.


Many places are already starting to do this:

15 Places Telling Tourists to Stay Home - Photos - Condé Nast Traveler


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Tigerlillie said:


> Many places are already starting to do this:
> 
> 15 Places Telling Tourists to Stay Home - Photos - Condé Nast Traveler



I get it I really do and clearly from an environmental point of view something needs to be done, it just allowing the wealthy to visit is not the answer but then again I'm not sure what is


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Megsmum said:


> I get it I really do and clearly from an environmental point of view something needs to be done, it* just allowing the wealthy to visit* is not the answer but then again I'm not sure what is


I don't understand your reasoning when you say just allowing the wealthy to visit, only a few of those places on my link....Mount Everest, Antarctica and perhaps a couple more are out of reach of most.....but the rest aren't. :confused2:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I haven't read all the thread, but in general think that Spain has shot itself in the foot where tourism is concerned. A few places like the infamous Magaluf and more recently Salou university "sports" events have become no go areas for people who still live by the norms of society and that is because it has been allowed to happen. I find it difficult to believe that people of any nationality want to actually live with the daily spectacle of drunk, drugged people pushing the boundaries of what can be done in a street (deal, buy, pee, shiit, puke, have sex, take drugs, scream, shout, fight, abuse...) That people might think it's fun to do this in a foreign land and also to think that there are no consequences I can see, but to allow this to happen where people live and trade is irresponsible to say the least. And so now authorities are seeing the consequences and have to weigh up the money coming in along with the reality of what they have created.

As far as restricting access to places goes, this is in operation in many different places and is working to preserve historical or natural sites. Off the top of my head there is the Alhambra in Granada, La Pedriza in Madrid, El tiemblo in Avila and the beach Los Catedrales in Asturias. Some criticise the measures saying they are only to "hacer caja" to make money out of, but the prices are often very reasonable and they pay the salary of the people who are there to make sure not too many people enter. They are not usually restricted to wealthy people. It does mean that you have to plan more by getting tickets in advance for the Alhambra for example (although I think there may be a reduced number of tickets available on the day - not sure), and getting to places like La Pedriza early in the morning to ensure a good walk. Makes sense to me


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

The first part of your post could be about Weston-super-Mare.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> I get it I really do and clearly from an environmental point of view something needs to be done, it just allowing the wealthy to visit is not the answer but then again I'm not sure what is


When limits are set they seem to be too high. The Alhambra is still too crowded, same in London. When the V&A has special exhibitions they ticket them but doesn't seem to take account of some staying longer. I too have no idea, we can only be thankful that we saw those places before there was a problem. It is ironic that Governments spend millions promoting their countries and now want to reduce numbers.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isobella said:


> When limits are set they seem to be too high. The Alhambra is still too crowded, same in London. When the V&A has special exhibitions they ticket them but doesn't seem to take account of some staying longer. I too have no idea, we can only be thankful that we saw those places before there was a problem. It is ironic that Governments spend millions promoting their countries and now want to reduce numbers.


One obvious thing they can do in London is to open the galleries longer. They could also really restrict numbers at certain times and charge. I'd pay £5 to go to the Tate for example if numbers really were restricted and I could see the pictures. Mon - Fri 18:00 - 20:00 for example. Or even 7:00 - 9:00, then go and have breakfast


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Tigerlillie said:


> I don't understand your reasoning when you say just allowing the wealthy to visit, only a few of those places on my link....Mount Everest, Antarctica and perhaps a couple more are out of reach of most.....but the rest aren't. :confused2:


Because the moment any commodity becomes restricted and wanted prices will rise, it's inevitable

Twenty thousand people visit Venice, now its only 10 thousand but twenty still want to go. Travel companies, hotel companies will increase their prices to compensate for the reduction in tourists. 

It's about supply and demand.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> The first part of your post could be about Weston-super-Mare.


Or Bristol, Manchester...
Our society seems to be set on self destruction


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Pesky mentioned early morning which is a good point, likewise late afternoon when most of the trippers have gone. If the place has a cruise port try to find out the days when no ships are due in.

Years ago when we visited Luxor the valley of the kings was already saturated. We did a tour and tour groups had to wait outside various tombs to take their turn, not fun in 45C heat. What we did was to return in the afternoon as we realised all the groups had a 6am start and most were tucked up in their hotels by 2pm. Meant getting a taxi, with the passenger door tied on with string  but worth it, totally different atmosphere. In The Caribbean some Islands can get two huge ships in one day after 3pm most have gone back to the ship.

Winter is better for serious sightseeing.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Pesky mentioned early morning which is a good point, likewise late afternoon when most of the trippers have gone. If the place has a cruise port try to find out the days when no ships are due in.
> 
> Years ago when we visited Luxor the valley of the kings was already saturated. We did a tour and tour groups had to wait outside various tombs to take their turn, not fun in 45C heat. What we did was to return in the afternoon as we realised all the groups had a 6am start and most were tucked up in their hotels by 2pm. Meant getting a taxi, with the passenger door tied on with string  but worth it, totally different atmosphere. In The Caribbean some Islands can get two huge ships in one day after 3pm most have gone back to the ship.
> 
> Winter is better for serious sightseeing.


Made me laugh... we too hired a local cab driver high as a kite! At the valleys by 6.30 back at the hotel by noon, while the Thomas cook coaches piled out at 9 just in time for the hottest part of the day, as we found tour companies left after 8am!

Loved Egypt one of my favorite destinations to date


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> One obvious thing they can do in London is to open the galleries longer. They could also really restrict numbers at certain times and charge. I'd pay £5 to go to the Tate for example if numbers really were restricted and I could see the pictures. Mon - Fri 18:00 - 20:00 for example. Or even 7:00 - 9:00, then go and have breakfast


I cannot understand why eg National Gallery is free. Most tourists seem to go to rest their legs or dodge the rain. I go a lot and have watched them. They should do what Pompei does and only make it free for EU pensioners.

I volunteer at a historical site. Full year round but not always saturated. I watch people all the time and estimate that only around 25% are seriously interested. Others just do a walk through and see it from the photos they take on iPads. Noticed this all over the world. Many just seem to go to say they have been or take selfies.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> Made me laugh... we too hired a local cab driver high as a kite! At the valleys by 6.30 back at the hotel by noon, while the Thomas cook coaches piled out at 9 just in time for the hottest part of the day, as we found tour companies left after 8am!
> 
> Loved Egypt one of my favorite destinations to date


Me too! Intend to return when/if it gets more stable.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hmm the people that I know in Spain who have been to Egypt talk about getting up at 4:00am to get to the sites... Maybe the Spanish work harder at being a tourist


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isobella said:


> I cannot understand why eg National Gallery is free. Most tourists seem to go to rest their legs or dodge the rain. I go a lot and have watched them. They should do what Pompei does and only make it free for EU pensioners.


Can't agree with that. I am fed up of being a nobody and paying full whack for everything. I'm not a student, not unemployed, not a pensioner, not from a big family etc, etc and everythings really expensive. If a charge is made for up till now free plsces it should be nominal - 50p for example


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmm the people that I know in Spain who have been to Egypt talk about getting up at 4:00am to get to the sites... Maybe the Spanish work harder at being a tourist


I think it depends if your are going solo or in a tour group the latter we avoid like the plague. If memory serves me we were usually eating breakfast in the hotel alone and in Jamils taxi before the " tour" groups had taken coffee. if you really want to "see" famous sites etc you have to plan equal to an army maneuver.:cool2:

It's not a arty tourist destination but having been to WDW Florida over ten times, I always laugh when I hear folks say,,, we will just play it by ear.... nope sometimes you gave just got to plan plan plan. Playing it by ear us for beach holidays 

I also agree with your comment about "special groups" most pensioners who can afford to travel to these places cab equally afford to pay a reasonable entrance fee. It should be one price for all.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Can't agree with that. I am fed up of being a nobody and paying full whack for everything. I'm not a student, not unemployed, not a pensioner, not from a big family etc, etc and everythings really expensive. If a charge is made for up till now free plsces it should be nominal - 50p for example


Ok. Good point They should charge something though. Paid around €10 for Picasso museum in Malaga and was very underwhelmed.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> That's a great pity. One of the beauties of the Highlands and Islands was that, for the most part, they hadn't been "discovered" and those bits that had been were so well publicised that one could give them a miss.


They have certainly been "discovered" by the sort of people who like to pay thousands of pounds to shoot birds and catch fish. Aren't they the ones who want to keep the riffraff out? Surely you don't think they should have it all to themselves?!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Tigerlillie said:


> Many places are already starting to do this:
> 
> 15 Places Telling Tourists to Stay Home - Photos - Condé Nast Traveler


Silly title, of course they aren't asking tourists to stay at home, just try somewhere else. But I agree totally, you can't let unrestricted numbers go into unique environments like the Galapagos Islands and Antarctica. 

As for how to control the numbers, I always thought that rather than using the price mechanism they should run some sort of prize draw. The proceeds could go towards environmental maintenance.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> I cannot understand why eg National Gallery is free. Most tourists seem to go to rest their legs or dodge the rain. I go a lot and have watched them. They should do what Pompei does and only make it free for EU pensioners.
> 
> I volunteer at a historical site. Full year round but not always saturated. I watch people all the time and estimate that only around 25% are seriously interested. Others just do a walk through and see it from the photos they take on iPads. Noticed this all over the world. Many just seem to go to say they have been or take selfies.


The taxpayers have already paid for the exhibits, why should they be charged to see them!?

An alternative is to do what the Met in NYC does and recommend a donation. You get a little sticker if you've paid $20, but nobody hassles you if you don't have one.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Depressing load of old tosh from Suzanne Moore in the Guardian today:

I don’t mean to ruin your holiday, but Europe hates tourists – and with good reason

Another daft article title because of course 99% of Europe loves tourists. But I do get her point about the Instagrammers and their location checklists. "Look at me, I'm in Hvar!" We saw some on our holiday in Croatia recently (first package holiday in 13 years so I'm not feeling guilty) and they were so intent on getting [email protected]/laid they could have been anywhere. Australians mainly but plenty of Brits too.


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## MalagaMike (Aug 16, 2017)

Here in Andalucia Tourism is the life blood and I've not seen anything but grateful bar/hotel/restaurant owners that whether it be Brits, Scandinavians, Germans etc they are visiting and spending in their establishments. The vast majority realise without tourism they'd be scrabbling around for a living off the land.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

MalagaMike said:


> Here in Andalucia Tourism is the life blood and I've not seen anything but grateful bar/hotel/restaurant owners that whether it be Brits, Scandinavians, Germans etc they are visiting and spending in their establishments. The vast majority realise without tourism they'd be scrabbling around for a living off the land.


_Parts_ of Andalucia. Not all. There are vast areas inland where tourists are as rare as hens' teeth and agriculture is the main economic driver. And of course they are welcome!

Though you're right in that visitors from overseas, as well as from other parts of Spain, do provide substantial revenue and employment in the coastal regions and in the "big three" cities - Seville, Cordoba and Granada.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

It would seem that pricing themselves of the market is not sufficient to drive away some tourists:

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/3.0....0495&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ewn-alerts


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

For more :
https://www.wort.lu/en/lifestyle/lo...content=newsLink&utm_campaign=dailyNewsletter


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Seems as if terrorism as in Tunisia, Egypt etc. Has not put people off visiting London despite two serious attacks. Tourism is booming. 

'Brexit effect' sees biggest boom in US tourists visiting the UK since the 1980s


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> They have certainly been "discovered" by the sort of people who like to pay thousands of pounds to shoot birds and catch fish. Aren't they the ones who want to keep the riffraff out? Surely you don't think they should have it all to themselves?!


Shooting birds/game and fishing need not be that expensive (nor shooting deer for that matter).

Snowdonia and the Brecon Beacons have to spend a lot to maintain footpaths from the sheer number of visitors. 

Scotland has a very good policy of 'wild' camping but now certain parts are restricted because of the mess the once a year campers/party types leave behind.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Isobella said:


> Seems as if terrorism as in Tunisia, Egypt etc. Has not put people off visiting London despite two serious attacks. Tourism is booming.
> 
> 'Brexit effect' sees biggest boom in US tourists visiting the UK since the 1980s


Has the value of the pound dropping through the floor encouraged visitors?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> The taxpayers have already paid for the exhibits, why should they be charged to see them!?


It seems to me that the upkeep and services needed in museums and galleries are huge. I also think that most people would pay a nominal fee (under a pound) to go to these places and the income would certainly be useful. Ultimately it would enable more people to see collections as the places would be able to open longer hours and to put on more exhibitions


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> Has the value of the pound dropping through the floor encouraged visitors?


According to the media, the Spanish market saw a real surge after terrorist attacks in Tunisia and Egypt in the past


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Has the value of the pound dropping through the floor encouraged visitors?


Yes.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/jun/16/uk-tourists-pound-brexit-us-holiday-exchange-rates

And more Brits are "staycationing" as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/jul/10/brexit-and-the-uk-tourist-industry

I've noticed several middle-aged, middle-income, middle-class Facebook friends (former work colleagues mainly) enthusing over the delights of Wales this year...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It seems to me that the upkeep and services needed in museums and galleries are huge. I also think that most people would pay a nominal fee (under a pound) to go to these places and the income would certainly be useful. Ultimately it would enable more people to see collections as the places would be able to open longer hours and to put on more exhibitions


The argument when they tried this before was that it cost too much to collect such small amounts. 

I'm sure they all have donation boxes. Let people give what they can afford.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

An interesting article about a tiny town seeing large benefits to charging a tourist fee. Venice, Barcelona and others should do the same, or at the very least charge a much, much large fee to the cruise ships.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/19/civita-di-bagnoregio-italy-dying-town-tourist-toll


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

skip o said:


> An interesting article about a tiny town seeing large benefits to charging a tourist fee. Venice, Barcelona and others should do the same, or at the very least charge a much, much large fee to the cruise ships.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/19/civita-di-bagnoregio-italy-dying-town-tourist-toll


They already do. The fees are included in the cost of the cruise, so paid by the passengers.

Venice is considering charging entry fees to its main attractions.

Venice planning to charge entry to its historic city centre | The Independent


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> They already do. The fees are included in the cost of the cruise, so paid by the passengers.
> 
> Venice is considering charging entry fees to its main attractions.
> 
> Venice planning to charge entry to its historic city centre | The Independent


As I understand it, the fees paid by cruise ships essentially cover service costs, with noting left over. I think either they should be higher of cruise ships should be banned (the latter is what UNESCO wants). After all, cruise ships bring very little economic gain to Venice (far less than other travellers) - although it appears that they are responsible for some 5,000 indirect jobs. Do you have any detail on the fees?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/jun/16/uk-tourists-pound-brexit-us-holiday-exchange-rates
> 
> ...


It has been a trend for years for the middle classes to holiday in Cornwall, Scotland etc. in summer. Then take a Caribbean holiday for autumn break. Most private schools extend the October holiday to three weeks because many families want to go farther afield.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

EverHopeful said:


> As I understand it, the fees paid by cruise ships essentially cover service costs, with noting left over. I think either they should be higher of cruise ships should be banned (the latter is what UNESCO wants). After all, cruise ships bring very little economic gain to Venice (far less than other travellers) - although it appears that they are responsible for some 5,000 indirect jobs. Do you have any detail on the fees?


Cruise ships add a charge per person for port charges and tourist taxes. Think it depends on the cost of cruise and destinations. Our last one I think, was around $200 each.

Agree a lot of cruisers are penny pinchers and don't spend much ashore, cheap tshirts and souvenir tat. We never spend much, just buy the odd drink ashore. Why pay to eat in some tourist rip off joint when you can pop back to ship and get three course lunch included.

Said on TV this week that Barcelona has an average of three to four cruise ships every day. The average cruise ship has around 3000 passengers some as many as 6000. That's an awful lot of people dumping on a town in one day.

The growth of cruising has spoilt many places. We have a reunion every year, 4 of us used to stay in Villefranche every spring. Sometimes there would be An occasional cruise but now there seems to be at least one a day. We go to Nice now.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Cruise ships add a charge per person for port charges and tourist taxes. Think it depends on the cost of cruise and destinations. Our last one I think, was around $200 each.
> 
> Agree a lot of cruisers are penny pinchers and don't spend much ashore, cheap tshirts and souvenir tat. We never spend much, just buy the odd drink ashore. Why pay to eat in some tourist rip off joint when you can pop back to ship and get three course lunch included.
> 
> ...


I am actually very much against cruise ships, especially the monsters around today. They cause untold pollution and, as you say, they don't spend much and the ships 'dump' an alarming number of passengers on towns, mostly just for the day. I realise you do cruises, but I just hate them. In any case, what do you really get to see and experience in a place, when you are just there for a few hours?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> It has been a trend for years for the middle classes to holiday in Cornwall, Scotland etc. in summer. Then take a Caribbean holiday for autumn break. Most private schools extend the October holiday to three weeks because many families want to go farther afield.


Really? Caribbean in the hurricane season?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> I am actually very much against cruise ships, especially the monsters around today. They cause untold pollution and, as you say, they don't spend much and the ships 'dump' an alarming number of passengers on towns, mostly just for the day. I realise you do cruises, but I just hate them. In any case, what do you really get to see and experience in a place, when you are just there for a few hours?


I wouldn't fancy a formal cruise, not my thing at all. But we did a "small ship cruise" in Croatia last month (30 passengers), booked via a company called Responsible Travel. All the food on board was sourced locally and in the evenings we were encouraged to try different bars and restaurants, along with wine-tastings , in the ports where we were moored. Apart from Dubrovnik and Hvar, which were both suffering a high-season surfeit of tourists, these were villages on islands sufferng from from severe unemployment so they are keen to attract more visitors of this kind. It was certainly a lovely way to explore the Dalmatian coast.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I wouldn't fancy a formal cruise, not my thing at all. But we did a "small ship cruise" in Croatia last month (30 passengers), booked via a company called Responsible Travel. All the food on board was sourced locally and in the evenings we were encouraged to try different bars and restaurants, along with wine-tastings , in the ports where we were moored. Apart from Dubrovnik and Hvar, which were both suffering a high-season surfeit of tourists, these were villages on islands sufferng from from severe unemployment so they are keen to attract more visitors of this kind. It was certainly a lovely way to explore the Dalmatian coast.


Yep, local small cruises - I don't think they count as a 'ship'. They pay taxes, they can control their pollution, the number of passengers does not destroy the placed they visit. They spend money at the places they visit. There are lots of these in Europe.


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