# Corruptin hits the headlines again



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

When will it ever stop?
Just how much money has been taken from us??!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/w...om-spains-graft-laid-bare.html?ref=world&_r=0

_Investigators calculate that she (María Victoria Pinilla) and other family members accumulated about $24 million, mostly from shady land deals during Spain’s boom years. Searching her property, the police had to borrow a bill-counting machine from a local bank to help total up all the cash: $485,000....

Even the country’s conservative prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, has turned up on a list of his party’s stalwarts who were supposedly taking payments under the table. _ _Nor has the royal family been immune. King Juan Carlos’s son-in-law and daughter have been subpoenaed in a corruption inquiry that began with the investigation of officials in the Balearic Islands. _
_...
While he stayed in office, Mr. Fabra, who now faces trial, was the driving force behind a project that has become a symbol of wasteful spending — the $183 million airport in Castellón that has never managed to attract a single flight since it was inaugurated in 2011. A statue there, meant to honor Mr. Fabra, cost taxpayers about $500,000. _


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Spain will explode in a few time ...months?..


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mickbcn said:


> Spain will explode in a few time ...months?..


I'm not so sure mickbcn. It seems to me that the Spanish will take beating after beating before standing up as a "pueblo" and saying enough is enough. 
Also, I've not known a government to be brave enough to listen to its electorate. Some examples...
I remember several huge protests in Spain. The first was after the shooting of Miguel Angel Blanco. I think ETA did take some notice of the people's reaction.
The next massive protest was over the war in Iraq. Over 90% of the Spanish population was in contra. The government did nothing because the Spanish government wasn't really controlling Spain at that time.
And the third time when the people came out onto the streets was 15M - no reaction.
So only the terrorists react to what the country really wants???
The only way the-bod- in-the-street has to show his/ her discontent is to protest in the street, which is seems that people are doing according to this 
*Madrid registró 632 manifestaciones hasta el 15 de febrero, el doble que en 2012*

Madrid registró 632 manifestaciones hasta el 15 de febrero, el doble que en 2012 - 20minutos.es




But as yet are not prepared to work together to present alternatives or even protest together

PS On Thursday 9th May there will be a strike of all state education, nursery - university, against the cuts and the proposed changes contained in the LOMCE (Ley de Mejora de la Calidad Educativa). Please remember that the teachers are not under any obligation to tell you whether they will be on strike, and servicios mínimos will be provided.

Mods - please correct title if you have time


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Now is different.. If we the catalans can get the independence next year (I cross my fingers)then Spain as we know will dissapear in a few months.because after us there are the basks.. and later even Mallorca and Valencia follow us... bad times for Spain coming.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

" Few politicians under investigation resign or even step aside temporarily. Spanish columnists have had a field day recently noting that in Germany a politician resigned merely for plagiarism. "

Reminds me of a conversation a few weeks back when the UK M.P. Chris Huhne was imprisoned , along with his ex-wife. 
The lad next door said " In the U.K they've locked him up just for making his wife take his speeding points & here ,we can't even take a passport off of Barcenas who has plundered millions !" 

:lol: :lol:


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

mickbcn said:


> Now is different.. If we the catalans can get the independence next year (I cross my fingers)then Spain as we know will dissapear in a few months.because after us there are the basks.. and later even Mallorca and Valencia follow us... bad times for Spain coming.


Could be a good year for Catalonia and Escocia:fingerscrossed:


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> Could be a good year for Catalonia and Escocia:fingerscrossed:


Sadly the reality will probably be that you exchange being governed by distant shyster for a new more local shyster...

...all that happens is you introduce and increase the overall number of shysters governing by splitting areas into even smaller independent areas.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mickbcn said:


> Now is different.. If we the catalans can get the independence next year (I cross my fingers)then Spain as we know will dissapear in a few months.because after us there are the basks.. and later even Mallorca and Valencia follow us... bad times for Spain coming.


Call me a fool, but I don't see the Basques following.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mickbcn said:


> Now is different.. If we the catalans can get the independence next year (I cross my fingers)then Spain as we know will dissapear in a few months.because after us there are the basks.. and later even Mallorca and Valencia follow us... bad times for Spain coming.


Absolutely no comment on the independance of Catalonia, or any other region
:focus:


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> PS On Thursday 9th May there will be a strike of all state education, nursery - university, against the cuts and the proposed changes contained in the LOMCE (Ley de Mejora de la Calidad Educativa). Please remember that the teachers are not under any obligation to tell you whether they will be on strike, and servicios mínimos will be provided.


Thanks for mentioning this. I didn't know. Last strike we had up here, few teachers went out, at least at OH's school. We'll see what happens this time.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> Could be a good year for Catalonia and Escocia:fingerscrossed:


Dream on

Salmond will be put back in his box next year. Most Scots,including my sensible partner, are too canny to fall for the independence snake oil.

Although perhaps they should foot the bill for Fred the Shred's shameless bankrupting of RBS, bailed out by the BRITISH taxpayer. After all, that was a Scottish-based bank run by a Scottish CEO and Director....
Then there's HBOS....

As for Catalonia and other regions....if it were possible to give them a trial run of say three years of independence romantic illusions would founder on the hard rocks of economic and political reality.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

I don't think the independence of Catalonia is one romantic ilusion when Spain stolen us 16 bn. euros each year (the 9% of our GDP) In 3 years we can pay our debt .and many international economists say that Catalonia will be the 4th richest country of europe.
But is not only economical problems. then we don't receive more insults saying that we are insolidaris.receiving continious atacks against our language and culture. blocking our airports like Barcelona.. (Felipe Gonzalez former president of government prohibe to international airways land in Barcelona. only can do in Barajas airport in Madrid.)T he mediterranean corridor is not finished yet despite the regions of Valencia and Catalonia are the most industrializated of spain and more than 50% of the exportations of Spain are created there. etc.etc.etc.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

:fingerscrossed:


mickbcn said:


> Now is different.. If we the catalans can get the independence next year (I cross my fingers)then Spain as we know will dissapear in a few months.because after us there are the basks.. and later even Mallorca and Valencia follow us... bad times for Spain coming.


Fingers crossed you won't get Independence, for the sake of a nation. The Spanish people deserve prosperity, not disintegration. Getting independence is a life changing experience, untried and unproven. What politicians promise is a long way from what they deliver. History has proved that countless times!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> Could be a good year for Catalonia and Escocia:fingerscrossed:


I am Scottish and independence would be to the detriment of Scotland. Furthermore, I am luckier than most Scots, I have met one of the founders of the SNP. Yes, a great man, but his Scotland was a different place than it is today!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The era of small independent states is long gone. Whether a good or bad thing I'm not sure but it's a fact. The world id coalescing into trafing blocs, some of which like the EU are aiming for closer political integration.
Big fish eat little fish.

The SNP seems to want a strange kind of 'independence' -it seems to include no 'foreign' status with Scottish passports, the Monarchy to be retained -odd that - and they want to keep the £.

Whilst it might save the rest of the UK a great deal of money were Scotland to vote for independence, the downside for me is that we in England would be doomed to endure perpetual Tory rule.
But if the majority do vote for independence, which imo is highly unlikely, then we should say No Queen or King, no £, controlled borders...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mickbcn said:


> Now is different.. If we the catalans can get the independence next year (I cross my fingers)then Spain as we know will dissapear in a few months.because after us there are the basks.. and later even Mallorca and Valencia follow us... bad times for Spain coming.


It sounds as if you relish the idea of the chaos and misery that would surely result from such a disintegration! Not only would Spain be 'no more' but Catalunya, the Balearics, all the other non-viable regions with these illusions of self-sufficiency will also disintegrate within a very short time.

It's fairly certain that if any region attempts to break away there will be a swift and firm reaction from the central government, most probably backed by the military. There will be bloodshed and widespread misery.

Full independence requires more in the twenty-first century than merely pointing to cultural traditions, folklore and even language. It requires a sound and stable and universally trusted currency, for one thing. Would any of these regions be allowed to keep the euro or even stay in the EU? What trading partners would they find? Before touting independence as a panacea a lot of hard thinking is required.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

In a few months you will see that Catalonia and some years later Valencia and Balearic islands are viable .and the spanish army can't do nothing against us ... is the democracy.


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> The era of small independent states is long gone. Whether a good or bad thing I'm not sure but it's a fact. The world id coalescing into trafing blocs, some of which like the EU are aiming for closer political integration.
> Big fish eat little fish.
> 
> The SNP seems to want a strange kind of 'independence' -it seems to include no 'foreign' status with Scottish passports, the Monarchy to be retained -odd that - and they want to keep the £.
> ...


I have to say that i have lost a little respect for Salmond over the past year or so, But i still believe that between him and Nicola they could do a great job with an Independant Scotland.
Im under no illusion that it would be a struggle for a FEW years but in the long run it would be a Great move, As for the monarch id happily say goodbye(no dis-respect) and the £, the Scottish Pound is rarely accepted down south as it is.
TBH i dont think Scotland will ever become an Independant Nation, for some reason Westminster are desperate to hold onto us, and too many people in Scotland like the idea of an Independant Nation but are too scared to take the step. 
As i dont live in Scotland at the moment i cant fight my corner too much, i will miss the Vote, But i still believe in the cause.Just because i dont live there, i am and will always be very proud to be a Scotsman.
I have alot of Respect for David Cameron, i like the way he is handling his goverment and his stance in Europe, God help the UK if Ed miliband was to ever take control..........................................................................

Time will tell, for both Scotland and Catalonia so until then MRYPG9 i will live in dreamland


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> I have to say that i have lost a little respect for Salmond over the past year or so, But i still believe that between him and Nicola they could do a great job with an Independant Scotland.
> Im under no illusion that it would be a struggle for a FEW years but in the long run it would be a Great move, As for the monarch id happily say goodbye(no dis-respect) and the £, the Scottish Pound is rarely accepted down south as it is.
> TBH i dont think Scotland will ever become an Independant Nation, for some reason Westminster are desperate to hold onto us, and too many people in Scotland like the idea of an Independant Nation but are too scared to take the step.
> As i dont live in Scotland at the moment i cant fight my corner too much, i will miss the Vote, But i still believe in the cause.Just because i dont live there, i am and will always be very proud to be a Scotsman.
> ...



Yes, and I fear you will be condemned to spend the rest of your life there.
To pick up on one point: your Scottish £ has no existence outside the £sterling. When it is accepted it is solely because it is legal tender in the whole of the UK, whether ignorant individuals perceive it so or not. I agree, it's frustrating to be told £s issued in Scotland are acceptable.

I'm glad that there is at least one person in the English-speaking universe who xconsiders Camoron is doing a good job.. To say he is 'handling his government' is a bit of a joke when it's apparent he can't handle his own Party let alone hois Cabinet or coalition partners.

Never have so many policy U-turns been made in so short a space of time by one Prime Minister, to paraphrase Churchill, who was able to handle the nation, not just his government.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mickbcn said:


> In a few months you will see that Catalonia and some years later Valencia and Balearic islands are viable .and the spanish army can't do nothing against us ... is the democracy.


Well, I'll give you a 'few months'. Let's see what has transpired by October, shall we say? I've put that date in my diary so we'll be able to see if this wild independence talk spouted by irresponsible politicians is hot air or reality.

Independence for Valencia and the Balearic Islands...why stop there? Why not independence for Madrid? The inhabitants there must be sick of this special pleading by disgruntled minorities. Or Seville? Or come to think of it, Estepona?

Power to the village, the town...I think not.

But we shall see who is right on October 1st - if you think that's an adequate time-scale.

As for the power of 'democracy'....


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

"I agree, it's frustrating to be told £s issued in Scotland are acceptable."

Do you want to re-phrase this?

Wow are you a friend of Baldilocks? i see hes liking your comments, he was on another post commenting on motorbikes and going to the Police.....................
Do you not remeber what it was like to be young and ambitious? 
ALBA GU BRATH


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> "I agree, it's frustrating to be told £s issued in Scotland are acceptable."
> 
> Do you want to re-phrase this?
> 
> ...


I dont understand the above comment ?????

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> "I agree, it's frustrating to be told £s issued in Scotland are acceptable."
> 
> Do you want to re-phrase this?
> 
> ...


Yes,an obvious typo.

You know,age has nothing to do with ambition. In fact for me,the older I get, the more aims I have in life.....and I intend to achieve them all.

So what have being friends with Baldy, a 'diamond geezer', to coin a phrase,motorbikes and la policia got to do with youth and ambition, I wonder....

Actually, Baldy would not approve of my liking for fast cars, whether noisy or mean, lean and silent. Like JoJo, another fast woman I have been lucky enough to have owned a BMW M3 cabrio and a Merc Clk cabrio. My son, who is a fan of all things automotive, has a huge Kawasaki and a Ducati so I guess we are a noisy bunch ourselves.
But considerate with it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I dont understand the above comment ?????
> 
> Jo xxx


I made a typo about Scottish £s....

As for the Gaelic....being a Celt myself, or 50% Celt from my Oirish ancestry father's side, I do think it sad that these ancient languages are fast becoming extinct.

But trying to revive them is like giving CPR to a corpse...

POG MO THOIN is a useful phrase though...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Excuse me for interrupting, but has anyone got anything interesting to add on corruption in Spain? I mean we're not short of cases to choose from - anything from
The Royal Family - Princess Cristina
Kings daughter no longer a suspect in Spanish corruption case | Irish Examiner
to singers
La Pantoja
Spanish singer sentenced to 2 yrs in corruption case :: La Prensa :: America in English
to
Politicians
Spain corruption | Swiss open criminal investigation | EITB News Politics


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Excuse me for interrupting, but has anyone got anything interesting to add on corruption in Spain? I mean we're not short of cases to choose from - anything from
> The Royal Family - Princess Cristina
> Kings daughter no longer a suspect in Spanish corruption case | Irish Examiner
> to singers
> ...


Only that here down south we await with interest the forthcoming Astapa trial which could be almost as big as the Marbella trials. It will see a former PSOE Mayor and numerous town hall employees and Estepona businessmen charged with the usual offences: money-laundering, planning consents for cash, fraud etc. etc. etc....


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Excuse me for interrupting, but has anyone got anything interesting to add on corruption in Spain? I mean we're not short of cases to choose from - anything from
> The Royal Family - Princess Cristina
> Kings daughter no longer a suspect in Spanish corruption case | Irish Examiner
> to singers
> ...



Me Miss, I've got one!

Millones de euros en divisas iraquies podrían estar escondidos en El Ejido.
& an English take on it.

government « DavidJackson.info

& here are a variety + a map of existing cases.


In Spain, Running With The Bulls**t | The Global Mail


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I particularly liked thie piece;
" Investigators have been probing the “unusual wealth” of Señor Sánchez. His wife has claimed she found five successful lottery tickets in his clothes while tidying up."

Happens all the time.I just throw them out if there are too many ! :lol:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Me Miss, I've got one!
> 
> Millones de euros en divisas iraquies podrían estar escondidos en El Ejido.
> & an English take on it.
> ...


Gold star to Gus with a contribution of relevant and amusing content


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

I think that you are a big consumer of Intereconomia.El Mundo.La Razón.and all the spanish media.
Next october maybe is too soon. but i am sure that in no far than october of 2014 will be our independence. 17 months.


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes,an obvious typo.
> 
> You know,age has nothing to do with ambition. In fact for me,the older I get, the more aims I have in life.....and I intend to achieve them all.
> 
> ...




_POG MO THOIN is a useful phrase though_........................LOL ok fair play


_My son, who is a fan of all things automotive, has a huge Kawasaki and a Ducati so I guess we are a noisy bunch ourselves.
But considerate with it._ 

just keep away from Baldilocks neighbourhood...................................


_You know,age has nothing to do with ambition. In fact for me,the older I get, the more aims I have in life.....and I intend to achieve them all_.

It appears that the older generation like to moan at the younger generation over evertything
, you cant kick a ball in the streets its disturbing my afternoon nap, you cant do this you cant do that, remeber you where young once before...............
As for ambition, im refering to a new generation of people notably the younger generation(although i dont agree with a 16 year old voting) who thrive for an independant nation, major ambitious, seems once you get to a certain age, you are happy with what you have, and you just go along with the way the country is run.
Moan regardless of who runs it.
I believe in an Independant Scotland nothing against England/Wales/NI/Uk etc
I just feel its the way forward.

Thats my View,and clearly above was just a generalisation, you clearly have a different view but that is the great thing about democracy so lets agree to disagree and move on :focus: and we will see what happens next year, as i said i dont think it will happen, but its still my beliefs.
P.S good luck achieveing all your ambitions


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> _POG MO THOIN is a useful phrase though_........................LOL ok fair play
> 
> 
> _My son, who is a fan of all things automotive, has a huge Kawasaki and a Ducati so I guess we are a noisy bunch ourselves.
> ...


Do you really think the 'older generation' like to moan about the young? If they do, it's an age-old phenomenum. 

As for specific instances such as kicking balls etc.....what seems to have vanished from all generations, not just the young, is a lack of respect and consideration for others. Young people's 'rights' do not have inherent priority over those of older people. 

I think that in the UK including of course Scotland a large number of young people are poorly educated and seem to have no sense that responsibilities accompany -or should accompany - rights. 

To get back to the topic: from what I have read and heard about corruption in Spain and in the Czech Republic where I lived...it seems to be a characteristic of 'one state' regimes. Both countries suffered from dictatorships and consequently when these regimes were no more there was no strong tradition of civil society to fill the gap. Individuals and groups who had the opportunity and inclination took advantage of this to enrich themselves. You see the same in parts of the UK - the North of England and the West of Scotland are the most glaring examples - where one-Party rule has led to widespread nepotism, gerrymandering and outright corruption.

The only way to overcome this is by strengthening the institutions of civic society. This means that citizens should cease being passive bemoaners and become active players in the political scene. 

To me, this means seeing thing as they are and not as we'd like them to be. Pure Marx, that That also is why although I respect your views I can see little point in pursuing political dreams. I've given up many of my past delusions as I believe in politics as the art of the possible. I think more people should become actively but *realistically* involved in the democratic political structures.

We moan about being powerless as we hear or read yet another instance of corruption or other appalling behaviour by our rulers yet the structures are there for us to use for our purposes, if we only got up off our collective backsides and used them.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

"_I think that in the UK including of course Scotland a large number of young people are poorly educated and seem to have no sense that responsibilities accompany -or should accompany - rights._"

Surely consideration, respect and responsibility don't come from the educators but from the parents or these days perhaps I mean parent. Without those sort of standards in their parent's lives, how are young people able to find an example or role model (often male because there is no male present) and please don't tell me that the likes of Wayne Rooney are the modern day equivalent?


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Posted twice


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> "_I think that in the UK including of course Scotland a large number of young people are poorly educated and seem to have no sense that responsibilities accompany -or should accompany - rights._"
> 
> Surely consideration, respect and responsibility don't come from the educators but from the parents or these days perhaps I mean parent. Without those sort of standards in their parent's lives, how are young people able to find an example or role model (often male because there is no male present) and please don't tell me that the likes of Wayne Rooney are the modern day equivalent?


The fact is though that these important social attributes are not possessed by far too many parents these days and the gap has to be filled somehow. AS I said in my previous post, no point moaning about something you don't like, find a way to change it.

There is also the question as to how this sense of entitlement, the egoism of modern society, came to dominate our lives. People's attitudes don't change for no reason, they are formed by the many subtle and more obvious messages from politicians and the media.

As I see it, this breakdown of social cohesion arose when the 60s 'me' culture met the 'greed is good' culture of the 1980s. It has been excerbated by the change in the social structure of Britain brought about by unemployment, the nature of much unemployment for the unskilled and the recent mass immigration from Eastern Europe.

As for Wayne Rooney....he is different from other young men only by virtue of his obscenely high earning power and the fact that any misdemeanour on his part is immediately made publicly known.


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