# Required Income Clarification



## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

As I understand it, if my common law wife and myself want to live in Mexico year round, we must have a combined income of approx. $2800 (U.S.), which we DON`T, it will only be about $1900, but have read we could also qualify if we instead, have approx. $95k in the bank, but is that each, or between the two of us. Or is it even true. We will also be purchasing a home in Mexico with a price of $200-$300k. There is so much old info online I don`t know what is new and up to date when it come to financial requirements as I know the rules recently changed and even what I thought were trusted sites still have some old, outdated info. Gracias


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

There are no combined qualifications. However, if an individual qualifies for a residence visa, the spouse or life partner may enter Mexico as a tourist. Then, after the first individual is issued the residence visa card and cohabitation is established, the spouse/partner can apply for equal status under familial rules.


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

*Re No Combined Qualifications*



RVGRINGO said:


> There are no combined qualifications. .....


So where it says one income must be approx. $1900, and other must be 50% of $1900, isn`t that a combined income, or is that only for legally married and NOT common law.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I think you are looking at pre-2012 rules. Things are different now. You can get the details from your nearest Mexican Consulate; they can give you a list of the requirements and options, if any.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

I would not rely on anything other than a real marriage concerning Visas in Mexico. Common Law is far from being a universal concept ..... legal or not


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Unless someone can provide you with a direct quote from an official source, or better yet, a link to that source, take all info on here with a grain of salt. Sometimes when someone says something, it's just their interpretation of the law, or just their opinion, and can cause big headaches, wasted time and crushed dreams if you believe it to be true only to find out later that it's not.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> Unless someone can provide you with a direct quote from an official source, or better yet, a link to that source, take all info on here with a grain of salt. Sometimes when someone says something, it's just their interpretation of the law, or just their opinion, and can cause big headaches, wasted time and crushed dreams if you believe it to be true only to find out later that it's not.


And sometimes members of this forum post information based on their experiences, which is more valuable than opinions or hearsay. Of course, the best source of information is the Mexican Consulate where the OP will be applying for a residence visa.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

sillywilly said:


> As I understand it, if my common law wife and myself want to live in Mexico year round, we must have a combined income of approx. $2800 (U.S.), which we DON`T, it will only be about $1900, but have read we could also qualify if we instead, have approx. $95k in the bank, but is that each, or between the two of us. Or is it even true.


Does this help? Got it from the, "Embajada De Mexico En Canada" website, it's only some of whats on there, but might answer your financial requirements questions, or not.

Temporary Resident Visa 

Requirements for foreign visitors who intend to enter and remain in Mexico as temporary residents for a period greater than 180 days and less than 4 years. 

In addition, the following documents must be presented depending on the category applied for: 

a) Economic solvency:
•Original and a photocopy of investment receipts or bank statements showing an average monthly balance of $109,010.00 Canadian dollars during the past twelve months; or 
•Original and a photocopy of documents showing that the applicant has employment or a pension with a monthly tax-free income of over $2,180.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

gringotim said:


> a) Economic solvency:
> •Original and a photocopy of investment receipts or bank statements showing an average monthly balance of $109,010.00 Canadian dollars during the past twelve months; or
> •Original and a photocopy of documents showing that the applicant has employment or a pension with a monthly tax-free income of over $2,180.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.


Sounds to us, the magic word is "or", as in we each need a income of $2180.00, "OR", $109,000 each in the bank. So thinking since I will have no pension of any kind until I turn 60, and my wife's (common law) pension will only be $1900, we will need to, after we retire and sell our house, put at least $218k in the bank for a year and just live in Mexico on a 180 day tourist visas until we have 12 months of bank receipts, and then apply for the 4yr visa. But can we have $218k in a joint account that shows both our names, or do we each need to show a statement for $109k each? "Anyone been there, done that" since the rules changed?.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

For starters, you must understand that there are not joint or combined requirements any more. You must each apply separately with separate documentations in each name; especially if unmarried.
If only one can qualify, the other can come to Mexico as a tourist. Once the first spouse gets the visa completed, the second spouse may apply for equal status under familial rules. This is easy for married couples, yet Mexico does recognize concubinage with sufficient proofs of long standing arrangements, so that is a possibility...depending on how the official sees you; not necessarily on how the law is written. That is also true of financial requirements, which may differ from one consulate to another with no rime or reason that we can decipher. So, when you are ready, go to your nearest consulate.


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

gringotim said:


> Does this help? Got it from the, "Embajada De Mexico En Canada" website
> a) Economic solvency:
> •Original and a photocopy of investment receipts or bank statements showing an average monthly balance of $109,010.00 Canadian dollars during the past twelve months; or
> •Original and a photocopy of documents showing that the applicant has employment or a pension with a monthly tax-free income of over $2,180.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.





Isla Verde said:


> And sometimes members of this forum post information based on their experiences, which is more valuable than opinions or hearsay. Of course, the best source of information is the Mexican Consulate where the OP will be applying for a residence visa.





sillywilly said:


> Sounds to us, the magic word is "or"..... "Anyone been there, done that" since the rules changed?.


I’m with Isla on this one, but I’d take it a step further. Not only is someone’s direct experiences often more valuable than hearsay and opinions, it can even be more useful than relying on the letter of the law.

Yes sillywilly, when it comes to the immigration conditions related to income and investments/bank balances, OR is indeed the magic word. But having ‘been there and done that’, I experienced INM stripping away that magic and replacing it with their own unpleasant ‘interpretation’.

I suggest you visit the Yucalandia source that Limeyboy gave earlier, and in particular take a look at their article “April 2014 Changes to INM Immigration Policies for Permanent Resident Applicants.” In a response to the article I posted about my experiences at the Cabo San Lucas INM office where, to summarise, they refused point blank to accept investments/bank account balances, and demanded a pension. The fact your wife receives ‘some’ pension makes your case a little different than mine, but I can say that INM, in the Cabo San Lucas office, told me straight that they will only issue permanent resident cards before four years temporary residency if a person receives a pension, and that pension is at the required income level.

RVGringo hits the nail straight on the head in my opinion. You should never rely solely on ‘the letter of the law’ – it often comes down to how an individual or local office chooses to apply that law. It’s clear that INM branches are ‘interpreting’ the immigration laws differently and you can assume Consulates are doing so as well. I don’t want to be discouraging, and I hope that your experience at your local Consulate will be completely different than mine at my local INM office.


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

buzzbar said:


> they refused point blank to accept investments/bank account balances, and demanded a pension.


Could it be they were trying to get you to give them some bribe money?, sort of like a bad cop, after all, if you meet or exceed a financial requirement for a visa, how can they refuse you? 
Can you not go over their head if that happens? Its bad enough with the new, higher financial requirements Mexico has brought in, but to meet the requirement only to then have your dream shot down by one person for no reason, seems to be a reason to also look elsewhere for retirement, thinking we need to have a plan B, like maybe Panama, Costa Rica, or Ecuador.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

buzzbar said:


> I’m with Isla on this one, but I’d take it a step further. Not only is someone’s direct experiences often more valuable than hearsay and opinions, it can even be more useful than relying on the letter of the law.
> 
> Yes sillywilly, when it comes to the immigration conditions related to income and investments/bank balances, OR is indeed the magic word. But having ‘been there and done that’, I experienced INM stripping away that magic and replacing it with their own unpleasant ‘interpretation’.
> 
> ...


There has been a few policies that are consistent around Mexico and at the Mexican Consulates lately and have been discussed by others experiencing these newer policies.

1. First timers getting a 1 year RT first and after 1 year getting the option of renewing for 1, 2 or 3 years.

2. Some Mexican consulates only want to see pension or retirement funds and not giving RP visas but 1 year RT visas. Others wanting applicants to be 55 or older.

3. INM offices only giving RP visas to those with an uninterupted INM visa previously.

4. INM offices asking for 3 or 6 months of financials when a previous resident and Mexican Consulates asking for 6 or 12 months of financials.

5: No one wanting to give RP visas to first time applicants that meet the requirement by the new law only RT visas.

6. No first timers married to a Mexican National getting a RP visa, need to be on a 2 year RT visa first. These first timers can "tramite" in Mexico on a FMM tourist card.

These are newer trends and some do not line up with last years policies except #6.


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

sillywilly said:


> Could it be they were trying to get you to give them some bribe money?, sort of like a bad cop, after all, if you meet or exceed a financial requirement for a visa, how can they refuse you?
> Can you not go over their head if that happens? Its bad enough with the new, higher financial requirements Mexico has brought in, but to meet the requirement only to then have your dream shot down by one person for no reason, seems to be a reason to also look elsewhere for retirement, thinking we need to have a plan B, like maybe Panama, Costa Rica, or Equador.


Just realized I spelt Ecuador wrong, went back to correct it, but the edit feature was gone, guess there's a time limit on editing.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The OP was silly to think the consulate was fishing for a bribe. 
One must remember to approach the subject with a smile, not a demand, and a suggestion that you would appreciate help in accomplishing your goal to live in Mexico. Being demanding, argumentative, confrontational or even suggesting that you have researched and know the rules, along with trying to go over someones head.......all lead to doom and gloom.
It is also wise to remember that the ability to read words and numbers does not necessarily make one literate or informed, but can lead to interpretations that may baffle others. Not much you can do about that.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

sillywilly said:


> Its bad enough with the new, higher financial requirements Mexico has brought in, but to meet the requirement only to then have your dream shot down by one person for no reason, seems to be a reason to also look elsewhere for retirement, thinking we need to have a plan B, like maybe Panama, Costa Rica, or Equador.


Like we did, you should take a look at Ecuador and maybe even Panama (don't know much about Costa Rica), Both Ecuador and Panama have very good benefits for retired people, which extends to expats. The major advantage over Mexico is the financial requirements. Ecuador requires a monthly  income of only $800 (U.S) and $100 more for a dependant, or in investment in property of $25k and an income of only $500. Panama is a little more , but no where near as high as Mexico. The one problem is they are farther away from Canada, especially Ecuador, like you, we are from Vancouver Island , (Duncan area) so getting to or from both places is very expensive and time consuming, when compared to most places in Mexico, or at least the Pacific side, which you need to consider if you will be travelling back and forth or wanting visitors from nob to come down. ie: Vancouver to most place on Mexico's Pacific coast are under $500 return, and easily done in 4-5 hours non stop, where as Vancouver to Ecuador requires at least 2-3 transfers, over 20 hours, if not 30+, depending on which airlines are used , and cost at least around $1200 on a good day. But definitely look into both Ecuador and Panama, you'll be surprised at what they have to offer retiries when compared to Mexico.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sillywilly said:


> Just realized I spelt Ecuador wrong, went back to correct it, but the edit feature was gone, guess there's a time limit on editing.


Yes, there is, but I can fix it for you!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> But definitely look into both Ecuador and Panama, you'll be surprised at what they have to offer retiries when compared to Mexico.


Apart from lower income requirements, what else do Ecuador and Panama offer potential foreign retirees?


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Apart from lower income requirements, what else do Ecuador and Panama offer potential foreign retirees?


re Ecuador & Panama benefits, Ecuador 1st, the country’s constitution guarantees foreign residents the same rights as citizens, some of the benefits of Ecuador’s over-65 discount program:
50% off public and private transportation within the country (including the Galapagos).
50% off tickets for all cultural and sporting events, including movies.
50% off electric and water bills (below certain usage levels).
Free domestic landline phone service (does not include long distance and other services).
Reductions in a variety of taxes, including income and sales taxes (these vary according to income and goods or services purchased).
Although not officially part of the government’s program, one of the most popular discounts for foreign residents is the 50% airfare reduction for international travel offered by airlines such as Taca, Copa Airlines, and Ecuador’s AeroGal. All three offer flights to the U.S. The discount applies to round-trip tickets purchased in Ecuador for flights originating within the country. The discount is available to all citizens and residents over the age of 65.
The cherry on top of retiring to Ecuador is that citizens and residents over 65 never have to stand in line. If you’re a senior citizen, when you make a bank deposit or pay your utility bill, it’s the law that you go directly to the front of the line…"

Panama might be even better for a lot of people, The program is open to foreigners and there’s no minimum age requirement.
Panama’s pensionado program, or pensioner visa program, is extremely generous.
50% off entertainment anywhere in the country (movies, theaters, concerts, sporting events)
30% off bus, boat, and train fares
25% off airline tickets
25% off monthly energy bills
30% to 50% off hotel stays
15% off hospital bills
10% off prescription medicines
20% off medical consultations
15% off dental and eye exams
20% off professional and technical services
50% off closing costs for home loans, and more…
If you become a pensionado, you’ll also be entitled to a one-time exemption of duties on the importation of household goods (up to $10,000) and an exemption every two years of duties for the importation or, better yet, local purchase of a car.
Plus, Panama’s pensionado law stipulates that anyone entering the country as a qualified pensioner is guaranteed that status for as long as he resides here. That means that even if future laws change the pensionado requirements, your status will be grandfathered in…it won’t ever change.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> re Ecuador & Panama benefits, Ecuador 1st, the country’s constitution guarantees foreign residents the same rights as citizens, some of the benefits of Ecuador’s over-65 discount program:
> 50% off public and private transportation within the country (including the Galapagos).
> 50% off tickets for all cultural and sporting events, including movies.
> 50% off electric and water bills (below certain usage levels).
> ...


All of those discounts sound good and are clever ways of luring retiree dollars and pounds and euros to these two countries. However, I have no desire to live in either one, especially not in Panama with its uniformly hot, humid climate!


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> ...... I have no desire to live in either one,....


Don't shoot the messenger, I wasn't implying you should move to either one, I only posted the list of benefits because you asked what they were, and so others could see them.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> Don't shoot the messenger, I wasn't implying you should move to either one, I only posted the list of benefits because you asked what they were, and so others could see them.


I'm not. I was making the point that a few discounts are not a reason to make a life-changing decision like moving to a foreign country for retirement.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I'm not. I was making the point that a few discounts are not a reason to make a life-changing decision like moving to a foreign country for retirement.


Fair enough, but for someone who can no longer qualify financially for a visa to retire to Mexico due to the recent changes, a few discounts and easier qualification requirements somewhere else might be the light at the end of the tunnel if they want out of the country they currently live in, whether its due to better weather, lower cost of living, etc. No matter what country someone moves to for retirement, there has to be something to draw them there, it may just not be the same thing for everyone. I have to been to Mexico City, once, and that was enough for me, but some expats like living there, go figure.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Gringotim makes a good point, re people who can't meet those Mexican financial requirements. If that's the case, they probably wouldn't be able to have a decent standard of living in the U.S. on their income, either....so some of those other places named might be a solution.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> Fair enough, but for someone who can no longer qualify financially for a visa to retire to Mexico due to the recent changes, a few discounts and easier qualification requirements somewhere else might be the light at the end of the tunnel if they want out of the country they currently live in, whether its due to better weather, lower cost of living, etc. No matter what country someone moves to for retirement, there has to be something to draw them there, it may just not be the same thing for everyone. I have to been to Mexico City, once, and that was enough for me, but some expats like living there, go figure.


I suppose your comment about living in Mexico City was aimed at me, fair enough . On the other hand, I can't imagine retiring to a country where I had never spent any or little time, whose language I couldn't speak, and which had nothing much to offer except warm weather and a lower cost of living, but that's just me!


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I suppose your comment about living in Mexico City was aimed at me, fair enough . On the other hand, I can't imagine retiring to a country where I had never spent any or little time, whose language I couldn't speak, and which had nothing much to offer except warm weather and a lower cost of living, but that's just me!


It was aimed at you, but in a "tongue in cheek" way, not a mean way. I was just making a point that people move to places for reasons others may not understand, like you, living, I assume by choice, in crowded, often smoggy, Mexico City. 
Any place I retire to, will be somewhere I have been before, where there is already an English speaking expat population, which in turn usually means some English is spoken by some locals, or at least enough to get by as I learn the language better.
Case in point, the cashier at the Walmart in Manzanillo Mexico spoke better English than the cashier at the Walmart in Vancouver BC who was from some small French speaking town in Quebec Canada. When we visited Salinas Ecuador, we had no problem getting by.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> It was aimed at you, but in a "tongue in cheek" way, not a mean way. I was just making a point that people move to places for reasons others may not understand, like you, living, I assume by choice, in crowded, often smoggy, Mexico City.
> Any place I retire to, will be somewhere I have been before, where there is already an English speaking expat population, which in turn usually means some English is spoken by some locals, or at least enough to get by as I learn the language better.
> Case in point, the cashier at the Walmart in Manzanillo Mexico spoke better English than the cashier at the Walmart in Vancouver BC who was from some small French speaking town in Quebec Canada. When we visited Salinas Ecuador, we had no problem getting by.


I kind of figured you were just pulling my leg, gringotim.  However, the fact that all you've mentioned about Mexico City are the negatives leads me to believe that you really have no idea what a great place this is to live, especially if you're a retired person on a limited income, who has moved to Mexico partly to enjoy its rich history and culture.

Since I have an excellent command of Spanish, moving to a place with a decent-size English-population isn't important to me, but I can understand it would be to someone moving here who has little or no working knowledge of the language.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> I suppose your comment about living in Mexico City was aimed at me, fair enough . On the other hand, I can't imagine retiring to a country where I had never spent any or little time, whose language I couldn't speak, and which had nothing much to offer except warm weather and a lower cost of living, but that's just me!


I know you spoke Spanish and had loved Mexico long before you moved here, but don't you think the description above: moving to "a country where I had never spent any or little time, whose language I couldn't speak, and which had nothing much to offer except warm weather and a lower cost of living" does describe many retirees who move to Mexico? 

Well, I wouldn't say Mexico has "nothing much to offer", but I wouldn't say that about Ecuador either, for those with an affinity for Latin American culture, history, natural beauty, etc.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> I know you spoke Spanish and had loved Mexico long before you moved here, but don't you think the description above: moving to "a country where I had never spent any or little time, whose language I couldn't speak, and which had nothing much to offer except warm weather and a lower cost of living" does describe many retirees who move to Mexico?


Yes, but that isn't true of the expat friends I have in Mexico City and elsewhere in the country.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> .... the fact that all you've mentioned about Mexico City are the negatives leads me to believe that you really have no idea what a great place this is to live, .


 I am sure that for those that like that type of living, Mexico City is a great place to live, it's just not my cup of tea, but like anywhere, it has it's pro's and con's, and it's the cons that can make life miserable for some people, especially if they find out about them after committing to a move and maybe even a purchase of a house or condo. So knowing about some of the con's of a place before hand, wherever it may be, may help someone in deciding if it's a place they really want to live. 
A few years ago, after wintering there for over 10 year, my uncle bought a house in Melaque, little did he know that every morning just before sunrise, he would get woken up by numerous roosters from nearby houses, and if wasn't roosters, it was barking dogs, all day long. After moving in, and even with a 8ft high walled yard, he got broken into within a week, then found out from others that the previous owner had been broken into 6 times within a year, which is why they sold, and left Melaque, subsequently, my uncle decided that wasn't the place for him and bought a condo in Manzanillo, and is now enjoying the retirement he had being longing for for years, and without bars on the windows or living in a walled compound.:nod:


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> I am sure that for those that like that type of living, Mexico City is a great place to live, it's just not my cup of tea, but like anywhere, it has it's pro's and con's, and it's the cons that can make life miserable for some people, especially if they find out about them after committing to a move and maybe even a purchase of a house or condo. So knowing about some of the con's of a place before hand, wherever it may be, may help someone in deciding if it's a place they really want to live.


On the other hand, if only the cons of a place are discussed, then no one would ever move anywhere. I think what is needed is a balanced discussion of both pros and cons.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> On the other hand, if only the cons of a place are discussed, then no one would ever move anywhere. I think what is needed is a balanced discussion of both pros and cons.


I think you are missing my point, as with you and Mexico City, some people will take the good with the bad and be quite happy, where as for others, some of the bad can outweigh all of the good and make life miserable. For example, I love having an ocean view, but having the best ocean view in the world means nothing if the area is a high crime area and I always have to watch my back, or have bars on my windows, barbed wire, guard dogs etc, or if the neighbours have 4 barking dogs, play loud, thumping music 24/7, party every night, have 5 screaming kids, burn garbage in their yard, etc etc. I personally look at the con's of a place before the pro's, just like when booking a hotel somewhere, if I know planes fly over all day and night, or a loud train runs by every hour of the night and day, or my room will overlook a loud nightclub or the vent fans from a kitchen, etc etc, then i'll look somewhere else no matter what good things there may be about the hotel. Think this thread has gone off topic, guess we'll just agree to disagree on this issue.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

gringotim said:


> Think this thread has gone off topic, guess we'll just agree to disagree on this issue.


Agreed!


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## TommyD8 (Jun 14, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> However, I have no desire to live in either one, especially not in Panama with its uniformly hot, humid climate!


Well that is not a valid statement. There are areas with enough elevation that are absolutly glorious in climate...


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TommyD8 said:


> Well that is not a valid statement. There are areas with enough elevation that are absolutly glorious in climate...


Sorry for my comment. I was basing it what the father of a Panamanian friend told me some years ago when I was living in New York City. He was visiting his daughter, who invited me for dinner. This man was a big booster of his country and was encouraging me to come for a visit. When I asked him when the weather was less hot and humid, he sadly told me that it was always that way. Where are these places in Panama that enjoy a glorious climate? What else do they have to offer a potential expat besides wonderful weather?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

gringotim said:


> I am sure that for those that like that type of living, Mexico City is a great place to live, it's just not my cup of tea, but like anywhere, it has it's pro's and con's, and it's the cons that can make life miserable for some people, especially if they find out about them after committing to a move and maybe even a purchase of a house or condo. So knowing about some of the con's of a place before hand, wherever it may be, may help someone in deciding if it's a place they really want to live.
> 
> A few years ago, after wintering there for over 10 year, my uncle bought a house in Melaque, little did he know that every morning just before sunrise, he would get woken up by numerous roosters from nearby houses, and if wasn't roosters, it was barking dogs, all day long. After moving in, and even with a 8ft high walled yard, he got broken into within a week, then found out from others that the previous owner had been broken into 6 times within a year, which is why they sold, and left Melaque,  subsequently, my uncle decided that wasn't the place for him and bought a condo in Manzanillo, and is now enjoying the retirement he had being longing for for years, and without bars on the windows or living in a walled compound.:nod:


There's a good reason why some of us always suggest that people familiarize themselves with their intended living destination beforehand and if that's not completely possible ... to rent, rather than buy ... at least for the first year or so. It takes time to get to know a city or colonia. 

Your dogs and roosters comment brought back memories of when I first went to San Miguel de Allende in the early-1990s. I love that town and can envision myself living there ... full time or seasonally. However, I learned quickly about the "roof dogs of San Miguel de Allende" which, seemingly, bark non-stop from dusk to dawn ... in many areas of the town. Then there were the damn church bells which doound-off about every 15 o 30 minutes, even throughout the overnight hours. And on weekends there was a disco 2 blocks away that had loud music permeating the airspace, competing with the dogs and church bells ... until the wee hours of the a.m. I was a wreck trying to study in language school 9 hours a day, living with a family that didn't speak English and sleeping in a bed meant for somebody no taller than 5'9" (and I'm 6'2")!

Yes, there many annoyances we face when we live in Mexico that we're probably not confronted with in the USA and/or Canada. Or, we have more recourse to stop/correct the annoyances in our home country that we don't have or don't know how to utilize in Mexico. These things happen in small towns as well as the large cities. 

Balancing the negatives together with the positives is the real challenge for many of us. And as many of us know, not everyone makes the transition successfully. I've known spouses of American businessmen assigned to Mexico who, after just 6 months living in Mexico, packed up and headed back "home" with the kids, or by themselves if there were no children. International relocation isn't for most people. I think it takes a special, hardy ... and unusual type of person to pull-it-off.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Longford said:


> There's a good reason why some of us always suggest that people familiarize themselves with their intended living destination beforehand and if that's not completely possible ... to rent, rather than buy ... at least for the first year or so. It takes time to get to know a city or colonia. International relocation isn't for most people. I think it takes a special, hardy ... and unusual type of person to pull-it-off.


Amen !


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

Okay, so I have read thru the visa rules on the Mexican embassy in Vancouvers website, and admit, I have never been good at deciphering legal mumbo jumbo, so can someone who has "been there done that" since the NEW rules came into play, tell me, if going the owning property in Mexico route to qualify for a visa, includes owning a condo on the beach worth at least $109,000 (Canadian $) , or does it only mean owning a house and land worth $109k+. The condo would actually be worth in the $200k range. And if owning a condo is acceptable, does our income amount not matter as far as the visas goes?  Gracias.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

That may be a bit muddy, since you may be in the position of not having posession of a deed; just a trust. Please go to the Mexican Consulate and ask them for their requirements. They, and only they, can tell you if you will qualify. 
Again, the OUR income amounts do not apply, as there are no joint applications. Each person must qualify. However, if only one qualifies with his own income, the other may go to Mexico as a tourist and convert, in Mexico, without financial requirements, once the first person gets the visa card. This works for married couples quite easily. Other couples might be able to do it under the concubine rule.


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> That may be a bit muddy, since you may be in the position of not having posession of a deed; just a trust. Please go to the Mexican Consulate and ask them for their requirements. They, and only they, can tell you if you will qualify.
> Again, the OUR income amounts do not apply, as there are no joint applications. Each person must qualify. However, if only one qualifies with his own income, the other may go to Mexico as a tourist and convert, in Mexico, without financial requirements, once the first person gets the visa card. This works for married couples quite easily. Other couples might be able to do it under the concubine rule.


I know the combined incomes can no longer be used, and I know that going to the consulate might get all my questions answered, as it would for most questions asked by people on here, but thats easier said than done, which is why most of us are on here asking others for answers or for their personal experiences. Obviously when the time comes and push comes to shove we will bring a consulate visit into the mix. I know the condo issue might be " a bit muddy" which is why I was asking if anyone has "been there, done that" since the rules changed. If no one has, so be it, but it can't hurt to ask, cause without questions like mine, there wouldn't be much reason for people to come onto an expat forum, they could just use Facebook for all their chit chat.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I understand your position, but there is a factor which you must accept: Every consulate seems to have its own interpretation of the laws and rules. As such, you might get a different answer from a different consulate, as well as different experiences reported by various folks on this forum, depending on where they had to apply, ie: the consulate nearest their residence in their home country. Of course, that information quickly becomes dated, with changes in interpretations seemingly happening with great frequency. It seems that some will allow home ownership under the investment rules, while others will not. Other consulates insist on retirement income and do not consider your savings account, while another consulate may do something contrary to that.
Those are the reasons that I suggested that you visit your consulate to get a feel for their requirements.


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> I understand your position, but there is a factor which you must accept: Every consulate seems to have its own interpretation of the laws and rules. As such, you might get a different answer from a different consulate, as well as different experiences reported by various folks on this forum, depending on where they had to apply, ie: the consulate nearest their residence in their home country. Of course, that information quickly becomes dated, with changes in interpretations seemingly happening with great frequency. It seems that some will allow home ownership under the investment rules, while others will not. Other consulates insist on retirement income and do not consider your savings account, while another consulate may do something contrary to that.
> Those are the reasons that I suggested that you visit your consulate to get a feel for their requirements.


I hear what you are saying, but the rules don't say you have to meet ALL the requirements, it just says this one , OR this one , OR this one etc, but as was asked in another post, what if you meet one of the requirements, as stated in the rules , yet the person at the consulate you go to, refuses to give you a visa, for no other reason than they have the power to do so, what then? If they say "I don't care if you sold your house in Canada and have $500k in the bank and plan on buying a $200k condo in Mexico, and have a pension income of $1800, you don't have the right amount of monthly income, so NO VISA FOR YOU!, do I say, I don't need a higher pension because I meet one of the other requirements, or just leave with my tale between my legs and look for another warm country to retire to?lane:


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sillywilly said:


> I hear what you are saying, but the rules don't say you have to meet ALL the requirements, it just says this one , OR this one , OR this one etc, but as was asked in another post, what if you meet one of the requirements, as stated in the rules , yet the person at the consulate you go to, refuses to give you a visa, for no other reason than they have the power to do so, what then? If they say "I don't care if you sold your house in Canada and have $500k in the bank and plan on buying a $200k condo in Mexico, and have a pension income of $1800, you don't have the right amount of monthly income, so NO VISA FOR YOU!, do I say, I don't need a higher pension because I meet one of the other requirements, or just leave with my tale between my legs and look for another warm country to retire to?lane:


Arguing won't do any good. You might ask to speak to the person in charge at the consulate you visit. If this were happening in Mexico, I'd suggest getting a good immigration lawyer, but I doubt there are many (any?) attorneys in the States who are conversant with Mexican immigration law.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

It sounds like someone is hoping for logic/and or consistency here. These are the first to disappear when dealing with a bureaucracy. 
But, practically speaking, what about the person coming into Mexico on a visitor visa, finding a well recommended lawyer here who is used to dealing with this kind of thing and applying that way?
My guess is that his/her chances might be better.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> It sounds like someone is hoping for logic/and or consistency here. These are the first to disappear when dealing with a bureaucracy.
> But, practically speaking, what about the person coming into Mexico on a visitor visa, finding a well recommended lawyer here who is used to dealing with this kind of thing and applying that way?
> My guess is that his/her chances might be better.


I doubt it. The law clearly states that you must begin the process at a Mexican Consulate in your home country. The only exceptions I've heard of have to do with foreigners who are married to Mexicans or who have Mexican children.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I doubt it. The law clearly states that you must begin the process at a Mexican Consulate in your home country. The only exceptions I've heard of have to do with foreigners who are married to Mexicans or who have Mexican children.


Quick........marry a Mexican???
Naah.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> Quick........marry a Mexican???
> Naah.


Can't see that happening with me. Luckily I already have my RP card.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Can't see that happening with me. Luckily I already have my RP card.


Not you........Silly Willy!
:flypig:


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## sillywilly (Apr 7, 2014)

lagoloo said:


> Quick........marry a Mexican???
> Naah.


I asked my wife if I could, but she said NO! hwell:


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

sillywilly said:


> I asked my wife if I could, but she said NO! hwell:


Well, DANG! But wives are like that.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Confrontation or argumentativeness will insure that a visa will not be issued. The cultural mandate is to always be agreeable, well brought up, and to never question the authority of a person in a position of power, however minor, no matter how the law reads. Asi es la vida mexicana.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Confrontation or argumentativeness will insure that a visa will not be issued. The cultural mandate is to always be agreeable, well brought up, and to never question the authority of a person in a position of power, however minor, no matter how the law reads. Asi es la vida mexicana.


People who are predjuice against Mexicans and their system and use ideas like their DNA is flawed etc. are the ones that seem to be have a low opinión of Mexico and seem to distrust authority or even Mexicans and everyday events for them seem different than the ones that follow cultural etiquette and feel egual. I wonder if they refelct their predjuices all the time and are getting it back in their face?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

It would probably benefit the OP to make the visit to the consulate with a smile on his face as he introduces himself and inquires as to the health and well-being of the person who is there to assist him. He might begin by expressing his excitement over his impending retirement and his curiosity about the possibility of retiring to Mexico. It would seem wise to ask for help in understanding the options for getting the necessary visa; thereby letting the consular employee take the lead. Mexicans love to be helpful, as do most folks. It makes us all feel good to assist others and it also boosts ones ego to be given a chance to demonstrate the knowledge and authority that comes with the job.
So, make the visit and give them a chance to help you.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

So well said RVGringo. That is a "secret" that I have used to my advantage throughout my business career. 

In dealing with officials (municipal, provincial & federal) in Canada I have frequently seen individuals approach the officials with a "superior" attitude of both knowing it all & an entitlement due to their wealth, power, etc. Whereas it does work sometimes I have had superior success with an attitude of "Hi, my name is Metro Dumptruck & I am hoping that you might be able to help me out as I think I may be in something over my head or that I do not understand." Far better results almost instantly. 

I was impressed by one Provincial Approving Officer & talked him into working for our company. He confirmed that people that came in with a superior attitude demanding action on their "file" were not appreciated and the moment they left his office their file went back to the bottom of the pile. 

Your comment should be viewed as "words of wisdom" from a world wide traveller.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Fig (Jan 9, 2013)

Sillywilly, phone the Mexican Consulate in Vancouver and ask to speak with Connie. She is very pleasant and helpful. That will save you a ferry trip. I applied for PR based on financials early April. I was granted 4 year Temp as the rule had changed from the time I saw an immigration lawyer in Mexico in Feb. until the time I actually applied in Apr. of this year. Now I understand the waters are getting murky again re pension only qualifications. I don' know the couple regs, but Connie will. Best of luck.


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