# Car $400 deposit not refunded



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

My wife and I crossed the border at Nogales in a US plated car in November we obtained the car permit and paid the $400 deposit on a Visa card. She is the legal owner of that SUV. She has a temporary visa and I have a permanent residence visa. One reason we did that is so that we could drive a US plated car into Mexico. We flew home to the USA in December and returned to Mexico in January by air. Three weeks ago In late March, we drove the car back home to the USA. They removed the permit sticker at Nogales and gave us a receipt. Everything seemed ok but I don't know. It was my understanding from my reading and what we were told by some Canadian friends that we did the proper thing. This was our first (and maybe only) time doing the drive so I do not really know what has gone wrong if anything. We have not received a refund of our deposit. I have read all of the posts on the sticky thread on this subject but the most recent post is a few years old.

Does anyone have suggestions or comments to offer? manly how to get my deposit refund asI believe it should have been.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

wonderphil said:


> My wife and I crossed the border at Nogales in a US plated car in November we obtained the car permit and paid the $400 deposit on a Visa card. She is the legal owner of that SUV. She has a temporary visa and I have a permanent residence visa. One reason we did that is so that we could drive a US plated car into Mexico. We flew home to the USA in December and returned to Mexico in January by air. Three weeks ago In late March, we drove the car back home to the USA. They removed the permit sticker at Nogales and gave us a receipt. Everything seemed ok but I don't know. It was my understanding from my reading and what we were told by some Canadian friends that we did the proper thing. This was our first (and maybe only) time doing the drive so I do not really know what has gone wrong if anything. We have not received a refund of our deposit. I have read all of the posts on the sticky thread on this subject but the most recent post is a few years old.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions or comments to offer? manly how to get my deposit refund asI believe it should have been.


Technically it was illegal for her to leave the country without the car. The car permit was tied to her tourist permit and now she has a different tourist permit. I wonder if that has anything to do with the failure to receive the deposit back.


----------



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

The TIP is good for the amount of time your FMM is valid, if you flue back to the USA in January you had to turn in the original FMM so it seems you abandoned your vehicle in Mexico. 
Did you have your original receipt to return or show at the 21KM kiosk before exiting Mexico?
I always use a credit card and my refund is always credited within 3 business days.


----------



## modeeper (Mar 21, 2015)

> I always use a credit card and my refund is always credited within 3 business days.


Ditto to dat.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Was her Residente Temporal renewed while the car was in Mexico? If so, one must notify Aduana of the renewal within 15 days. If that is not done, the car permit is void and deposit is forfeit.
Might that be the reason?


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Was her Residente Temporal renewed while the car was in Mexico? If so, one must notify Aduana of the renewal within 15 days. If that is not done, the car permit is void and deposit is forfeit.
> Might that be the reason?


I misread the initial post to imply that she was here on a tourist permit. The OP calls it a "temporary visa". If it was a visa, Residencial Temporal, and unexpired then they should have been legal. If it expired and was renewed that could be a problem as RV notes. If it was a tourist permit, the car became illegal when they made the trip to the US by air.


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> Technically it was illegal for her to leave the country without the car. The car permit was tied to her tourist permit and now she has a different tourist permit. I wonder if that has anything to do with the failure to receive the deposit back.


I have heard this said by maybe RV ****** and others (that it was technically illegal to (fly out/in) and then drive the car out. However I have also read on various threads here in the past that people have done it with no problem (they got refunded). Logically it doesn't make too much sense as long as you get the car out of Mexico in the required amount of time. People may have a family emergency or medical issue that requires a out/in flight. However as everyone knows, laws are not always logical. BTW, My wife was not on a tourist visa permit, it was a residencia temporal visa permit (which may not be any different in this matter as a tourist visa)? 

Maybe I can inquire at the local Mexican Consulate to see what the reason for not refunding or just make a claim for a refund?


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

RVGRINGO said:


> Was her Residente Temporal renewed while the car was in Mexico? If so, one must notify Aduana of the renewal within 15 days. If that is not done, the car permit is void and deposit is forfeit.
> Might that be the reason?


The visa was not actually renewed, but that you may be onto something with that line of thinking. The visa may have been considered changed from provisional or some similar wording because you have to appear in Mexico to get it actually approved. So in this case, that happened after we had crossed into Mexico and received the permit. She had applied for the temporal visa at the Mexican consulate in Portland, Oregon (and received the provisional or whatever it is called). Then she had to appear at the office in Maztalian to actually receive the Temporal card. She did that (appeared and received the card) in November before we flew out back to the USA. This is was the first time/year that we applied for her to have a temporal visa so it was not a renewal. The year before, Oct/Nov 2013, I had applied for a Residencia Permanente in Portland. I then appeared in got it in Maztalian and received my RP card.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

wonderphil said:


> I have heard this said by maybe RV ****** and others (that it was technically illegal to (fly out/in) and then drive the car out. However I have also read on various threads here in the past that people have done it with no problem (they got refunded). Logically it doesn't make too much sense as long as you get the car out of Mexico in the required amount of time. People may have a family emergency or medical issue that requires a out/in flight. However as everyone knows, laws are not always logical. BTW, My wife was not on a tourist visa permit, it was a residencia temporal visa permit (which may not be any different in this matter as a tourist visa)?
> 
> Maybe I can inquire at the local Mexican Consulate to see what the reason for not refunding or just make a claim for a refund?


My comment applied to a tourist permit. Since she was on a Residencial Temporal visa, she would be allowed to come and go without the car.


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> The TIP is good for the amount of time your FMM is valid, if you flue back to the USA in January you had to turn in the original FMM so it seems you abandoned your vehicle in Mexico.
> Did you have your original receipt to return or show at the 21KM kiosk before exiting Mexico?
> I always use a credit card and my refund is always credited within 3 business days.


Yes we gave them the original receipt at the 21km kiosk and they took the permit off the windshield and gave us a receipt back. I have also heard that the refund is normally credited back within a short time.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

At the consulate, she received a ‘canje‘, a provisional permit pending issuance of the Residente Temporal Visa in Mazatlan.
I suspect that the Aduana may have treated the change from canje to visa a change requiring notification to extend the auto permit. If so, the car was illegal from the date of change. I can see no other reason for not receiving your refund, unless you no longer have the very same credit card that was used to pay the deposit in the first place.


----------



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Use this email address: [email protected]

He works for Banjercito,speaks english and has always answered my questions promptly. 

Hope this helps........


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

RVGRINGO said:


> At the consulate, she received a ‘canje‘, a provisional permit pending issuance of the Residente Temporal Visa in Mazatlan.
> I suspect that the Aduana may have treated the change from canje to visa a change requiring notification to extend the auto permit. If so, the car was illegal from the date of change. I can see no other reason for not receiving your refund, unless you no longer have the very same credit card that was used to pay the deposit in the first place.


Yes we still have the same credit card and it was in her name. 

I thank you for your response.


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> Use this email address: [email protected]
> 
> He works for Banjercito,speaks english and has always answered my questions promptly.
> 
> Hope this helps........



Yes it does, and I thank you and the others who responded to my post.


I will contact him and I may also try to contact the local consulate. I will post my results , if I find any thing one way or the other.


----------



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

wonderphil said:


> The visa was not actually renewed, but that you may be onto something with that line of thinking. The visa may have been considered changed from provisional or some similar wording because you have to appear in Mexico to get it actually approved. So in this case, that happened after we had crossed into Mexico and received the permit. She had applied for the temporal visa at the Mexican consulate in Portland, Oregon (and received the provisional or whatever it is called). Then she had to appear at the office in Maztalian to actually receive the Temporal card. She did that (appeared and received the card) in November before we flew out back to the USA. This is was the first time/year that we applied for her to have a temporal visa so it was not a renewal. The year before, Oct/Nov 2013, I had applied for a Residencia Permanente in Portland. I then appeared in got it in Maztalian and received my RP card.


I that case when she got the TIP and the FMM with the "canje" portion filled out which is for 30 days usually when she recieved her Residente Temporal visa/card she had 15 days to go into an ADUANA office and show them her Residente Temporal card and they fill out a form with a copy of her RT card and send it to their head office in Mexico City to avoid the forfeit of her $400.00 US deposit. They are more lenient now that a couple of years ago on the 15 days since the 30 day FMM "canje" card expired. They might wait 60 or more days since the FMM "canje" card was issued before forfeiting a deposit.

Because she did not do this the deposit was forfeited and sent to SAT. The TIP was still valid because she got a RT card but no deposit will be due.


----------



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> At the consulate, she received a ‘canje‘, a provisional permit pending issuance of the Residente Temporal Visa in Mazatlan.
> I suspect that the Aduana may have treated the change from canje to visa a change requiring notification to extend the auto permit. If so, the car was illegal from the date of change. I can see no other reason for not receiving your refund, unless you no longer have the very same credit card that was used to pay the deposit in the first place.


Article 106 of the Ley Aduanera guarantees that if you keep your temporary residency INM permit in force continuously during the lifetime of the car permit, with no breaks and no fines/penalties, the Temporary Import Permit (TIP) continues to be legitimate. 

If you paid a deposit for the TIP, Banjercito automatically confiscates the deposits 15 days after the TIP's expiration date, but Article 106 still applies (keeping the TIP legitimate) as long as you maintain your temporary residency visa continuously in force. 

I checked the vehicle temporary import rules and it does state the above rule that after 15 days from the expiration date of a FMM card the deposit will be confiscated but does not mention the TIP will become invalid, only the deposit will be sent to SAT and not returned.

So in conclusion contacting ADUANA when a change from FMM "canje" or a renewal of a Residente Temporal card is so the deposit will not be confiscated and also a good idea as they send you a letter that shows the new extended date and if a police officer thinks the date on your TIP has expired showing them the letter from ADUANA which has the extended date until the next renewal of your RT card they will leave you alone and you do not have to explain to them that the TIP is still valid under Article 106 of the Ley de ADUANA.


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

AlanMexicali said:


> Article 106 of the Ley Aduanera guarantees that if you keep your temporary residency INM permit in force continuously during the lifetime of the car permit, with no breaks and no fines/penalties, the Temporary Import Permit (TIP) continues to be legitimate.
> 
> If you paid a deposit for the TIP, Banjercito automatically confiscates the deposits 15 days after the TIP's expiration date, but Article 106 still applies (keeping the TIP legitimate) as long as you maintain your temporary residency visa continuously in force.
> 
> ...



Thank you for responding and for your research on this subject. However, I am not clear on exactly what you have said. 

It seems to me that My wife received the "canje" and later she appeared in Mazatian way before the expiration date of the "canje'/ visa this was done at a Mexican government office is it/was it customs (ADUNA?) I do not know, maybe not, but do the various government agencies not communicate with each other? Are you saying/thinking that the deposit should not have been confiscated in your opinion? BTW, I obviously agree with the fairness of this, if that is your opinion. 

If not ....

I guess this might be part of our welcome to Mexico learning experience, and having said that still I love what I have seen of Mexico over the years and for sure the people I have met there, like most people in the USA or probably most anywhere 95% or more of them are great people. So if we have lost the $400 deposit it will just be part of the learning process. I have already looked into buying a car in Mexico but then we have the problem of what to do with the car when we are not in the country 7 months or so our of the year (it is not good to have the car sit unused that long).


----------



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

wonderphil said:


> Thank you for responding and for your research on this subject. However, I am not clear on exactly what you have said.
> 
> It seems to me that My wife received the "canje" and later she appeared in Mazatian way before the expiration date of the "canje'/ visa this was done at a Mexican government office is it/was it customs (ADUNA?) I do not know, maybe not, but do the various government agencies not communicate with each other? Are you saying/thinking that the deposit should not have been confiscated in your opinion? BTW, I obviously agree with the fairness of this, if that is your opinion.
> 
> ...


ADUANA is Mexican Customs and INM is Mexican Immigration and she went to finalize her preapproved visa with the FMM "canje" at your local INM office to "tramite" [process] the 30 day FMM "canje" [swap] to a Residente Temporal visa/card that was preapproved at your Mexican Consulte which she recieved in her US passport in the form of a 6 month temporary visa. Upon entering Mexico they stamped her passport and gave her the FMM card and a TIP for your vehicle.

No INM and ADUANA do not communicate with each other. It is her responsibility to go to any ADUANA office and show them her Residente Temporal visa/card to keep them from automatically forfeiting the deposit she gave them 15 days after the expiration date that is on ADUANA´s paperwork, which they evidently did.

You at this point you have no recourse.


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

AlanMexicali said:


> ADUANA is Mexican Customs and INM is Mexican Immigration and she went to finalize her preapproved visa with the FMM "canje" at your local INM office to "tramite" [process] the 30 day FMM "canje" [swap] to a Residente Temporal visa/card that was preapproved at your Mexican Consulte which she recieved in her US passport in the form of a 6 month temporary visa. Upon entering Mexico they stamped her passport and gave her the FMM card and a TIP for your vehicle.
> 
> No INM and ADUANA do not communicate with each other. It is her responsibility to go to any ADUANA office and show them her Residente Temporal visa/card to keep them from automatically forfeiting the deposit she gave them 15 days after the expiration date that is on ADUANA´s paperwork, which they evidently did.
> 
> You at this point you have no recourse.


To be clear I gave you a "like this" for your great and what I believe was a truthful, well thought out and researched answer. In addition it confirmed prior posts such as RV ******'s

However as you probably understand, I really did not like the reality of the answer as my wife and I lost $400 by my oversight etc. This of course is no one's fault other than my own.


----------



## Tex2Guat (Apr 25, 2015)

Wow. Planning a car trip this year Guat to U.S.. Don't want this kind of trouble! 
Actually considered just keeping the 'sticker' on the car and not worrying about getting refund at U.S. border, but instead keeping it on and getting refund on Guat border after trip to U.S. completed.
NOW I know to get the refund as soon as hit border. THANKS for sharing!


----------

