# Italian citizen- Residency under 183 days-Taxes?



## Philip63 (Nov 20, 2013)

Hi, I'm an Italian citizen living in France. I travel all the time and am never close to 180 days in Italy. Furthermore I get no income from Italy whatsoever. 

If I were to change my residency back to Italy, would I be liable for Italian tax if I am there less than 183 days? 

I imagine I'd have to file Italian returns but is this acceptable? 

The reason I ask is that the concept of residency and domicile are delineated in Italian law-- I've read the texts about 5 times and they seem to be contradictory (lol that wouldn't be a first in Italy) 



Thanks!


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm not certain about this but I don't think it is a question so much of how long you are _present_ in Italy but your _residency_ status.

If you have residenza, then you are a resident for tax purposes. If you are not living in Italy for at least 183 days of the year, then it behooves you to formally establish residency somewhere else and notify the nearest Italian consulate/embassy accordingly so that you can be registered in the database of Italians living abroad (A.I.R.E.).



> If I were to change my residency back to Italy, would I be liable for Italian tax if I am there less than 183 days?


Can you explain what it is that you hope to accomplish? Where do you plan to be during the time that you are NOT in Italy?


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## Philip63 (Nov 20, 2013)

accbgb said:


> I'm not certain about this but I don't think it is a question so much of how long you are _present_ in Italy but your _residency_ status.
> 
> If you have residenza, then you are a resident for tax purposes. If you are not living in Italy for at least 183 days of the year, then it behooves you to formally establish residency somewhere else and notify the nearest Italian consulate/embassy accordingly so that you can be registered in the database of Italians living abroad (A.I.R.E.).
> 
> ...


The situation is this. Family is in Italy (parents- I'm single). Company is in the US. I travel 80% of the time to various countries. Sometimes Italy but any business is paid to a US company, not to France. Italy's health system is not based on contributions- unlike France's because there are no social charges which in France are very confiscatory. 

What I had heard-- which I am not sure is really accurate, is essentially after all filings that you would be taxed in Italy for Italian source income (after you prove you paid tax say in the US, which I have to anyway since I have a green card). This stuff gets dicey!


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Well, BBCWATCHER will be along soon enough. If anyone can answer your question, it is he.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The "trick" is that each country's rules regarding residence and "tax residence" are different and distinct. And it is possible to be "tax resident" in more than one country at the same time.

In France, if you are "conducting a business" in France, then you're considered tax resident. (There are two other criteria - but it's a case where, if you meet any one of the three criteria, you're considered tax resident.) "Conducting a business" means that you do whatever it is you do to earn your money while physically present in France. No matter where your company, your customers nor your bank/payments are.

If you want to hang onto that Green Card, then you're definitely on the hook to the US.

And I don't know how Italy sees these things - maybe BBCWatcher can fill you in on that.
Cheers,
Bev


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Italy uses three tests.

Resident for 183 days
habitual home
centre of life.

There are issues with AIRE registration if you're in Italy too long.

Even if you don't change residency you could face issues if you're in Italy too long and have family etc in Italy.

You might be covered by various countries rules for residency but all that means is you have to look at the tax treaty between those countries. The treaties start with centre of life IIRC.

If you're using the Italian health services,living in Italy and have family in Italy you should expect to be an Italian resident.

Italy taxes on worldwide income. 

The question then becomes under the tax treaty which country has rights to tax your various income? If you're traveling it can depend on the type of work.

Seek a tax lawyer.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I suggest you maintain full U.S. residence, with AIRE registration in the U.S., and merely visit Italy and France for short visits as apparently you do today. You are required to maintain U.S. medical insurance anyway, probably from your employer, and that insurance almost certainly will provide worldwide coverage for emergencies and urgent care (check that). You are required to pay U.S. taxes on your worldwide income already. You are making contributions to U.S. Social Security, and that's the best deal. You cannot maintain your U.S. green card without actual U.S. residence, and you have a path to U.S. naturalization if you wish.

I'm not sure what you'd be accomplishing with residence in France or Italy. Use the U.S. as your home base (and in fact).


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