# 6 months Dublin, 6 months Nerja



## Bucko123 (Dec 25, 2015)

Hello want to move from Dublin to Nerja area as retiring. Wondering about car insurance and health insurance as only want to live here 6 months per year - October to April. Anyone doing this with pets? All advice welcome.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bucko123 said:


> Hello want to move from Dublin to Nerja area as retiring. Wondering about car insurance and health insurance as only want to live here 6 months per year - October to April. Anyone doing this with pets? All advice welcome.


:welcome:

6 months a year can be tricky.... assuming you want to be 'legal'.

Firstly, the Spanish govt requires that if you spend, or intend to spend, 3 months / 90+ consecutive days in Spain, that you sign on the register of residents. If you have a state pension you would get a form S1 which would cover you for healthcare & the pension would cover the income aspect of the requirements. Using the S1 though, would mean that you lose healthcare in Ireland.

Then as a resident of Spain (which strictly speaking you would be, even if you didn't bother to register) you can't drive a foreign plated car - so you'd have to get the car changed to Spanish plates... & then back again once you return to Ireland. 

Also, if you clock up 183+ days in the year Jan 1st to Dec 31st, you'd be tax resident. So (for instance) if you came 1st October 2016 that would be 91 days in 2016 so you wouldn't be tax resident that year.
Then in 2017 1st Jan to 31st March is 90 days - plus then the 91 days 1st Oct to Dec 31st 2017, & you're just under the 183 days. 
But you can see how easy to would be to go over, even if you just popped over to Spain for a long weekend at some point - that would tip you over into tax residency.

Of course not everyone does stick to the rules......  

It can be done though, legally - it just takes careful planning & maybe two visits of less than 90 days (visit family in Ireland for a week maybe? Even 24 hours out of Spain is enough to reset the clock!) & you can stay totally legit. 
Health insurance would then be optional, because you could use your EHIC, you wouldn't have to change the plates on the car & your usual insurance would probably cover the car, since you'd be here for long holidays.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> Also, if you clock up 183+ days in the year Jan 1st to Dec 31st, you'd be tax resident. So (for instance) if you came 1st October 2016 that would be 91 days in 2016 so you wouldn't be tax resident that year.
> Then in 2017 1st Jan to 31st March is 90 days - plus then the 91 days 1st Oct to Dec 31st 2017, & you're just under the 183 days.
> But you can see how easy to would be to go over, even if you just popped over to Spain for a long weekend at some point - that would tip you over into tax residency.



So, just for MY information, the 183 consecutive days do NOT have to be in the same tax year? I always thought they did. (Do you have a link?)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> So, just for MY information, the 183 consecutive days do NOT have to be in the same tax year? I always thought they did. (Do you have a link?)


They're* cumulative*, not consecutive, so Jan to March & Oct to Dec would be in the same tax year


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> They're* cumulative*, not consecutive, so Jan to March & Oct to Dec would be in the same tax year


Sorry, yes I used the wrong word but my question remains - I always thought that they had to be in the same tax (calendar) year.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Also just to check further does a trip back out iof Spain before each 90 days holiday reset the clock for your EHIC?


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## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> 6 months a year can be tricky.... assuming you want to be 'legal'.
> 
> ...



I might appear to be a bit thick here with regard to the explanation above, but precisely how on earth would Spanish authorities be able to know when you were in or out of the country, if for instance you used cash to purchase things? I know it's a trifle underhand but a simple cross (open) border trip to France/Portugal doesn't require showing passports I believe? Please correct me if I'm wrong?

I'm not a fan of open borders, but the ease to exploit the above regulations makes avoiding the legalities of living in Spain farcical? Having said that, some of law dodging by our European cousins in the UK is equally breathtaking.

Anyway, it gives me something to think about, firstly, the intent on staying beyond 90 days can be spun on it's head with a short term let. Secondly, if need be (read above query) a simple european neighbour tour resets the clock, or just say you travelled to and from France/Portugal several times this year ... If avoiding card use, how would the authorities know? It would be even easier if you didn't use a car of your own.

Perhaps those 'open borders' aren't that bad after all? Only if you're European please.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

LDN2ESP said:


> I might appear to be a bit thick here with regard to the explanation above, but precisely how on earth would Spanish authorities be able to know when you were in or out of the country, if for instance you used cash to purchase things? I know it's a trifle underhand but a simple cross (open) border trip to France/Portugal doesn't require showing passports I believe? Please correct me if I'm wrong?
> 
> I'm not a fan of open borders, but the ease to exploit the above regulations makes avoiding the legalities of living in Spain farcical? Having said that, some of law dodging by our European cousins in the UK is equally breathtaking.
> 
> ...


If the tax office, for example, believes that you are tax resident, it would be up to you to prove otherwise. So if you leave the country, find a way of proving it - travel tickets, hotel receipts, whatever.

They actually have access to things like electricity & water consumption, so if, for example, you own a property here which you 'visit for holidays', but in reality spend more than half the year in it, should they suspect you, they will be able to check. 

Over-use of the EHIC is another way. 

Yes many people do live under the radar - but it's becoming more difficult, & in many areas, the police do actually visit properties to check paperwork.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Sorry, yes I used the wrong word but my question remains - I always thought that they had to be in the same tax (calendar) year.


They would be wouldn't they?

The tax year here is Jan 1st to Dec 31st, as you know. So Jan to March & Oct to Dec *would be* in the same tax year. 

There is an argument that the Jan to March was during the tax year in the UK, so you'd still be tax resident there at that time, so not tax resident in Spain, but if you were routinely doing this, and going over the 183 days in Spain, that would put you tax resident in Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Also just to check further does a trip back out iof Spain before each 90 days holiday reset the clock for your EHIC?


In theory yes, since you would be resident in the UK as long as you spend 6 months a year there. If you choose to holiday in one country or lots, it shouldn't make a difference. 

It's possible that you could have problems though should the computer here show that you are using the card regularly over a prolonged period. Again, the onus would be on you to prove that you _aren't _resident, rather than for TPTB to prove that you are.


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## Bucko123 (Dec 25, 2015)

Thanks a lot. Would driving into France count if we did not want to return to Ireland?


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## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> If the tax office, for example, believes that you are tax resident, it would be up to you to prove otherwise. So if you leave the country, find a way of proving it - travel tickets, hotel receipts, whatever.
> 
> They actually have access to things like electricity & water consumption, so if, for example, you own a property here which you 'visit for holidays', but in reality spend more than half the year in it, should they suspect you, they will be able to check.
> 
> ...


I always like your responses, straight to the point and always take a realistic approach to the potential problems incurred whilst in Spain. 

I will hold my hands up and say that I will be 'playing the system' for a short period of time prior to purchase and residence status. I don't feel comfortable 'playing' said system, but neither am I comfortable in shelling out monies whilst other better off individuals sidestep taxes left right and centre.

I held off purchasing last year, whilst the fear mongers quoted 'the perfect storm' of European and Worldwide financial problems. However, with the £ doing well, we now have another cliche to use as 'the stars have aligned' for an ideal purchase opportunity.

The taxation on a UK home is only relevant I believe? When you become part of the Spanish tax system and sell (after) your UK home. If you sell beforehand and purchase a Spanish property, there is no additional CGT to pay as you will be buying your 'lived in' residence.

I plan to have a Spanish property and a UK property, but will do my utmost to avoid Spanish taxes legally ... Just like those big corporations do.

Maybe a 'forum' sticky 'How to avoid paying Spanish taxes like those greedy rich individuals/corporations - but legally'.


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

Bucko123 said:


> Thanks a lot. Would driving into France count if we did not want to return to Ireland?


yep it would i 'd get reciepts for a meal,fuel or hotel so you can prove that you have been out of the country.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

smitty5668 said:


> yep it would i 'd get reciepts for a meal,fuel or hotel so you can prove that you have been out of the country.


Just don't forget though, it won't help at all with the 183 day tax rule!


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I've cut my duration in any one year to within 90 days. The good news is that I get to choose the times I wish to remain in Spain. 

The Spaniards have a love affair with 3 months residency, 6 months residency, over 6 month residency. Their love of bureaucracy sets them apart from the rest of the European Union. Such terms have contributed to the UK having a referendum in 2016 in which to decide if EU membership is for them. There will be more such referenda also. The EU as an entity is dreadfully flawed and until a United States of Europe is achieved we might as well not have the European Union.

Spaniards can arrive in Ireland without passport, Irish people must have a passport to travel to Spain is only one example. The same rules obtains between France and Ireland, again the French do not need a passport to travel to Ireland.

One day the Spaniards will wake up and realise that they are earning less from expats living in Spain than what could be earned if their residency laws were relaxed. God alone knows when this day will be.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Sorry, yes I used the wrong word but my question remains - I always thought that they had to be in the same tax (calendar) year.


& Jan-March & Oct-Dec are ?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Leper said:


> The Spaniards have a love affair with 3 months residency, 6 months residency, over 6 month residency. Their love of bureaucracy sets them apart from the rest of the European Union. Such terms have contributed to the UK having a referendum in 2016 in which to decide if EU membership is for them.


If you really believe that, you need to do a bit of research into what other European countries require EU citizens moving there to do. Almost all of them have very similar requirements to Spain - you must register as a resident within 90 days, provide proof of adequate financial resources and have health insurance if not working and paying social security contributions.

Just one example - Italy.-

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...ties/registering-residence/italy/index_en.htm

Likewise, the rules relating to tax residency are very similar to Spain's.

I think Spain's bureacracy (which is actually in no way unusual within Europe) comes very low down on the list of reasons why the UK wishes to have a referendum on whether or not to stay in the EU.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Errrm, would you still be liable to tax/ residency rules if you were just a long term non paying guest?

I know of a lady and senior forum member in Velez- Malaga who I am going to sweet talk into letting me stay and was hoping these annoying regulations won't apply.


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## Bucko123 (Dec 25, 2015)

Thanks for very good info.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Errrm, would you still be liable to tax/ residency rules if you were just a long term non paying guest?
> 
> I know of a lady and senior forum member in Velez- Malaga who I am going to sweet talk into letting me stay and was hoping these annoying regulations won't apply.


 Best laugh I've had all week.

The idea of staying with me and trying to circumvent residence/tax rules is like going to stay with Torquemada and skipping Mass.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> & Jan-March & Oct-Dec are ?


Not if it's Oct-Dec & Jan-March


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