# No Local Habitation Certificate Available...Proof Of Antiquity?



## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm bracing myself for the influx of 'Are you mad/stupid/idiotic/desperate/deranged?!?!' posts!!....but this is a genuine question, and I am trying to get to the bottom of this, and I am open to all opinions and advice on the matter...good or bad.

We are moving to Spain. The house is sold, and we have an offer in on an inland campo property, and the legals are going through (..slowly!!) now.

Anyone who has seen my previous posts will know that the house, and the purchase, has had a few issues, and we are on a knife's of whether it is sensible to proceed...

I have never bought in Spain before, but have tried to research as much of it all as I can, and also research it as it all unfolds. I've also tried to be flexible, and I realise most properties in Spain have to be tweaked a bit to some extent to be ready for sale....

But my question this time is this.......I have been told by my solicitor, and by the estate agent, that it is absolutely impossible to get a Habitation Certificate to the place we have an offer on. I didn't expect a licence of first occupation (LFO), as the property is too old, but I insisted on a habitation certificate, of which I am led to believe are available from the Town Hall, under different names, dependant on region.

But I have also been told by the abogado, that the Town Hall of the area we are buying in, can not issue any Habitation Certificates for campo properties, because they are making a substantial inventory of all the properties, and are then going to grant certificates to those that apply for it and meet their criteria, but until this stage no certificates can be granted. Obviously I have no idea how long that will all take?...which obviously leaves us at potential risk, and also means any applications will be at our cost.

But is this true?...is it true that a whole area can not issue a habitation licence due to carrying out an inventory? Is this normal? Does this mean that no campo property in this area...and possibly other areas if this applies there...have got habitation certificates? Have/do people buy property without asking for one?....the seller we are buying off obviously did, but that was over ten years ago.

Our solicitor assures me that he has enough proof of antiquity on the property to not foresee a problem in the future when applying for the certificate, and there won't be any legal issues. And that they have enough proof for the property, that the town hall can not have an issue towards it....and that he was waiting on a certificate from them to prove that.

We asked what this 'new' certificate was called, and they have said it is a 'certificate for old constructions, and of non existence of urban files open against the property' (my translation may be a little flowery?)

Firstly, this isn't really a name of a certificate, it is just a description of what it is. Does anyone know what this certificate is, its name, and is it legit? 

Overall this doesn't look good, and we are considering getting a second legal opinion. Obviously if they say this is false then it would be a very good move! But if they say it is true, then we are back at square one of having to take the risk of buying without a habitation certificate...but I just can't see every buyer in a whole area having to take the risk?!?!

Is this a legit situation? Or being misinformed by our abogado? The area is Iznajar, but I'm also told that Antequera has the same circumstances too.

I know that has been a very long post, but I do appreciate any input you have.

Many thanks, 

Steve


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

Hi Steve ,

Sorry cant help you with all that technical stuff, but I know how you feel , I remember when we moved out years ago it was a real worry !!

We live in the campo , and for some reason whole load of people moved out at the about the same time 2003 , and if its any consolation no one reported any problems , I think we all have minor issues but nothing major .

Any way hope you make the right decision and enjoy your Spanish adventure ! its great fun.

Tony Agost Alicante


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I am prompted to ask whether the abogado is Spanish and of good standing or a Brit suggested by the Estate agent. 

A number of officials (both elected and appointed) of town halls are now behind bars or under investigations for corrupt practices and you run the risk of laying out money on a property that may well be illegal and subject to a demolition order in the future. Should you, in the future, have the possibility of connection to services such as electricity or phone without the relevant certificates legalising the property, you may be denied those services.

If it doesn't have all the necessary legal paperwork, then it would be a good idea to walk away.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

tonymar said:


> Hi Steve ,
> 
> Sorry cant help you with all that technical stuff, but I know how you feel , I remember when we moved out years ago it was a real worry !!
> 
> ...


Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply 

I think the next week will be the telling point, and the emergence..or not!...of this 'new' certificate. I'm seriously thinking of either contacting another abogado to sound them out about it, and see if they know of any such situation. And depending on what they say I may change lawyers......but I just don't want to jump from the frying pan to the fire!

It certainly is a stressful time to be honest, but worth it in the end hopefully


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

StevejR1 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Thanks for the reply
> 
> ...


Yes it is stressful !

I remember almost feeling like I was gambling with my lifes savings ! and I dont even gamble 

if it makes you feel better we dont have a habitation certificate , but we still habitate our house !

Spanish paper work gets me down , I think we worry about it more than the Spanish , as we seem to like going by the book and getting ourselves stressed .

I have a very good Spanish friend , he built his own house in the campo totally without any permission, is he worried -- not a bit ! 

I guess it is a buyers market at the moment , so you are in a good position to demand total legality of your intended purchase , I bet if you push it they will get the required papers , test the water tell them you are going to look at another place !

see if that gets them into gear , if not its up to you weather to continue or look elsewhere 

Remember there are many many other bargains around now

Cheers Tony


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

StevejR1 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Thanks for the reply
> 
> ...


Sorry posted twice , so deleted it


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I know there were reports in the press last year that only half of all Ayuntamientos in Andalucia had completed the inventory of illegal properties which they are required to undertake, so your abogado could well be right about that if the Ayuntamiento of the area you are looking at is one of them.

La mitad de los municipios no tiene aún el inventario de casas ilegales | Actualidad | Cadena Ser

I have heard of a type of certificate Ayuntamientos can issue for older properties to confirm that there are no legality issues or outstanding proceedings relating to them, but I just cannot, try as I might, remember the actual name of these certs in Spanish, so I can't search for any information to give you. I do also remember reading, though, that some Ayuntamientos were adopting a blanket refusal to issue such certificates because they didn't want to commit themselves, so that could be a further complication.

I guess it will just come down to whether you are happy to accept the "assurances" you are being given and go ahead, or not.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Success! I think this might be what your abogado is referring to:-


Certificado de Antigüedad | Certificado Vivienda

However, as you will see one of the things this is supposed to confirm is that the property is not built on protected land (which if it was, would mean it could never be legalised).

If the Ayuntamiento hasn't yet undertaken the local inventory, I don't see how they could properly confirm that at this stage.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Does the property already have electricity and running water? I realise it is in the countryside, but it could be important later on.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

tonymar said:


> Yes it is stressful !
> 
> I remember almost feeling like I was gambling with my lifes savings ! and I dont even gamble
> 
> if it makes you feel better we dont have a habitation certificate , but we still habitate our house !


Very well put Tony, that's exactly how I feel at the moment...we're buying a house, but feel we're taking a huge gamble! It's just not like that in the UK, when you normally only worry that you can't afford to pay the mortgage. In Spain the risk is you might be buying something with out any worth! Very scary.

It worries me how far a town hall could go back before they took exception to an 'unregistered' property that is being lived in...when does the antiquity become valid?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> Success! I think this might be what your abogado is referring to:-
> 
> 
> Certificado de Antigüedad | Certificado Vivienda
> ...


Well done, well found 

I don't think it is built on protected land, but it is built on rural land, which obviously has restrictions on it.

I'll translate that link, and have a good read. Thank you


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I know there were reports in the press last year that only half of all Ayuntamientos in Andalucia had completed the inventory of illegal properties which they are required to undertake, so your abogado could well be right about that if the Ayuntamiento of the area you are looking at is one of them.
> 
> La mitad de los municipios no tiene aún el inventario de casas ilegales | Actualidad | Cadena Ser
> 
> ...


That does seem very much along the lines of what we're being told, especially that explanation '*issue for older properties to confirm that there are no legality issues or outstanding proceedings relating to them*' that seems very similar to they're explanation.

I think I will just have to wait to see what exactly is presented to prove legality, and then question anything I'm not happy about. As it stands they are waiting for a separate legality report/certificate from the town hall...without that nothing will proceed.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Justina said:


> Does the property already have electricity and running water? I realise it is in the countryside, but it could be important later on.


The property has well water, but with a mains water supply being supplied in the next few months, when about 12 houses in the area will be connected. The sewerage is by septic tank. The house has a maintained mains electricity supply.

Would this new water supply complicate things even further?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I am prompted to ask whether the abogado is Spanish and of good standing or a Brit suggested by the Estate agent.


The aborgado is Spanish, and we got some good independent recommendations and references from a few sources...but they do seem to have a worrying familiar relationship with the estate agent, which makes me feel a little uneasy. Might be quite innocent, but it sort of undermines the advice.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Steve you seem determined to keep asking the same questions until you get the answer you want. It isn't going to happen. Most of us have given you the same sort of advice and to put it bluntly walk away.

I have a cousin who bought a Finca in 2001 with the promise of water to be installed in the area within a year. It never happened.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

StevejR1 said:


> The aborgado is Spanish, and we got some good independent recommendations and references from a few sources...but they do seem to have a worrying familiar relationship with the estate agent, which makes me feel a little uneasy. Might be quite innocent, but it sort of undermines the advice.


You answer your own question. If you feel a little, teensy weensy bit uneasy a part of your brain is trying to tell you something. Walk or RUN away.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Isobella said:


> Steve you seem determined to keep asking the same questions until you get the answer you want. It isn't going to happen. Most of us have given you the same sort of advice and to put it bluntly walk away.
> 
> I have a cousin who bought a Finca in 2001 with the promise of water to be installed in the area within a year. It never happened.


Hi Isobella,

I totally understand your viewpoint, and can understand what you're saying.

I'm not really trying to find out the answer I want, mearly trying to work through the information I'm receiving through the buying process, as it happens...and then trying to determine if it is correct, or normal. I also thought it might be useful to others for future reference?

At the moment we are waiting on all these different licences, certificates, and whatever else they want to show us, to determine its legality, and buy ability. We have an offer on the property, but no deposit has been paid, and we can walk away if we need to. At this stage I'm just trying to get my head around all the information that I'm being given, and trying to gauge its credence.

The mains water...the town hall has already built a water deposit costing €20,000, and now it is just the pipes that need to be laid. I've been told that a company, or consortium, has been set up including all the 20 owners getting the supply, and tenders for the work sent out to 3-4 contractors for prices. A cost of approximately €2-2,500 is being expected per house. That all sounds like it is at least on the horizon, if not a guarantee of how imminent it is. It certainly sounds more encouraging than a promise of mains water by the town hall.

Really, I'm just trying to find out if these sorts of complications are normal in buying a campo house? Because if what I'm being told is correct, then surely no campo house will ever sell?....if it is bad information, then I must change legal representation to at least find out.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

StevejR1 said:


> The mains water...the town hall has already built a water deposit costing €20,000, and now it is just the pipes that need to be laid. I've been told that a company, or consortium, has been set up including all the 20 owners getting the supply, and tenders for the work sent out to 3-4 contractors for prices. A cost of approximately €2-2,500 is being expected per house. That all sounds like it is at least on the horizon, if not a guarantee of how imminent it is. It certainly sounds more encouraging than a promise of mains water by the town hall.



I really don't want to 'rain on your parade' but I think I ought to relay a situation I know of locally.

Someone wanted to buy a house in the campo but it had no power other than solar. The lawyer advised that a consortium had been created comprising the few neighbours. They had obtained a price to have power installed (new pylon, lots of cabling etc.) by Iberdrola. A commitment was made to Iberdrola that all the members had paid a deposit into a fund and could they please have a date for the work to start and an estimate of when it would be completed. After 3 years Iberdrola have still not scheduled the work. This despite funds being available from all those concerned.

The person I know had bought the property on the guarantee that power would soon be installed for a known price. After 3 years they sold all their electrical appliances and bought gas ones!

So, the moral is - don't believe promises by major utility companies or lawyers!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

StevejR1 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Thanks for the reply
> 
> ...


Consulting another lawyer would be money very well spent. 


Not having a cédula de habitabilidad is not just a headache in terms of getting power, gas, or water. It's also a right nightmare when it comes to having to register, get healthcare, get kids into school, etc. because you're not able to get on the town hall's register! I know it's more common down south, but up north if you don't have the cédula, you basically can't exist unless you're empadronado in somebody else's house.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Just got me thinking , presumably if you have mains electricity and water connected and bills paid then you must have a habitation certificate ?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

maureen47 said:


> Just got me thinking , presumably if you have mains electricity and water connected and bills paid then you must have a habitation certificate ?


It has mains electric, but well water....I think you can still get a supply, but only a building supply in modern cases. But how that applies to old properties that have had a supply for years without a habitation certificate I don't know?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

This is an example of the sort of problem that can be experienced by buyers of properties where there are problems because of a lack of a licence of first occupation (or in this case because the licences issued were deemed invalid). Almost 50 householders whose properties were built in 2007 had their supply cut off by Endesa in 2014 although they all had mains supplies:-


Vecinos de Alcauc?n se manifiestan tras ocho d?as sin luz por problemas urban?sticos en su edificio. SUR.es


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> This is an example of the sort of problem that can be experienced by buyers of properties where there are problems because of a lack of a licence of first occupation (or in this case because the licences issued were deemed invalid). Almost 50 householders whose properties were built in 2007 had their supply cut off by Endesa in 2014 although they all had mains supplies:-
> 
> 
> Vecinos de Alcauc?n se manifiestan tras ocho d?as sin luz por problemas urban?sticos en su edificio. SUR.es


The licence of occupation, or lack of it, started a stream of problems for owners still on builders supply. That situation has now led to the habitation certificate's importance in older properties.......but really, why does a licence granted for new builds (and this system also happens in the uk) mean that older properties now need one? That's just a 'throw it out there' question!

And if it is just a formality for the majority of cases for the Town Hall to issue them for older properties, then why is there such a stigma or reluctance to just grant them?.....and before anyone says it, I realise this is Spain!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

StevejR1 said:


> The licence of occupation, or lack of it, started a stream of problems for owners still on builders supply. That situation has now led to the habitation certificate's importance in older properties.......but really, why does a licence granted for new builds (and this system also happens in the uk) mean that older properties now need one? That's just a 'throw it out there' question!
> 
> And if it is just a formality for the majority of cases for the Town Hall to issue them for older properties, then why is there such a stigma or reluctance to just grant them?.....and before anyone says it, I realise this is Spain!


It is because many of the properties were/are illegally built often with very poor standards of construction and just granting them paperwork without any inspection and correction of technical faults means that a faulty building becomes legally able to be sold, bought and occupied - who would be prepared to take responsibility if there were to be a collapse, possibly with fatal consequences?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> It is because many of the properties were/are illegally built often with very poor standards of construction and just granting them paperwork without any inspection and correction of technical faults means that a faulty building becomes legally able to be sold, bought and occupied - who would be prepared to take responsibility if there were to be a collapse, possibly with fatal consequences?


Yes that makes perfect sense.

So as regards the inventory that the town hall are supposedly making, once that list is compiled, would there then need to be an inspection of every property?.....if so I can see that taking a very long time!


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

Just thought Steve , if you really want the property , would it be possible to hold back a large sum of money ( in some form of contract ) until the paper work is in order ? surly if the owner is confident in getting it he wouldn't mind ?

Cheers Tony


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

tonymar said:


> Just thought Steve , if you really want the property , would it be possible to hold back a large sum of money ( in some form of contract ) until the paper work is in order ? surly if the owner is confident in getting it he wouldn't mind ?
> 
> Cheers Tony


Hi Tony,

I have told the aborgado that I'm not prepared to release any money until the licences and certificates are in place, and that includes any deposit.

I have also just finished speaking to another lawyer...the other choice of the two we thought of going with, and he seems very much on the ball, more genuine, and able to explain things much more clearly and concisely than our present one.......his suggestion was to withhold an amount, or reduce the offered price, to cover any costs incurred on the outstanding Habitation certificate.

Generally he mainly confirmed much of what our present solicitor is saying to be true, but also took the time to explain it clearly, and to offer advice, and explanations. And explain that generally the levels of risk, if any, on each situation...and also to point out that any familiarity with an estate agent is not a good sign at all, and specifically that if the agent is the one relaying the information then it gives the lawyer a good get out clause! I was impressed.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

StevejR1 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I have told the aborgado that I'm not prepared to release any money until the licences and certificates are in place, and that includes any deposit.
> 
> ...


So now you have the fees for two abogados and have still only got the same information you had for free on the forum.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> So now you have the fees for two abogados and have still only got the same information you had for free on the forum.


To be honest, I think my apprehension was how reliable the information from the solicitor was because of the familiarity with the estate agent. At the moment it is just a worry, but what is concerning me is that when the checks are done, and he says everything is fine to proceed with the purchase, those concerns and worries escalate to catastrophic proportions as the belief and trust in what you are being told is lost. And with large amounts of money involved that is a huge risk to take.

Regarding the property, it does obviously have issues, and we are giving the seller every opportunity to rectify them. What we also need is an aborgado/solicitor working on our behalf that is making stringent checks that nothing is omitted in those procedures....at the moment I don't feel we have that protection from an independent lawyer, and that needs to change.

As the solicitor stated today, all the property in the campo will have the same issues, or they will all have some sort of issues. But it is knowing, and more importantly, getting good advice when to not proceed.

I think there is a huge difference between buying a campo property, and an urban one. Obviously an urban one is less fraught, and safer, and we do have an alternative property that might appeal. But we are just waiting to see what the seller manages to achieve, and either look at our aborgado's reaction to it, or jump ship now and get more independent advice.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

All campo houses will have issues? Not so sure about that. Even if true most will only be minor issues. The ones you have mentioned such as afuera de ordinacion are quite serious. 

Are these Abogados charging you? I know when we have bought they have asked for money upfront before proceeding. 

Even a good Lawyer cannot legalise a house if the Junta declares it illegal.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Isobella said:


> All campo houses will have issues? Not so sure about that. Even if true most will only be minor issues. The ones you have mentioned such as afuera de ordinacion are quite serious.
> 
> Are these Abogados charging you? I know when we have bought they have asked for money upfront before proceeding.
> 
> Even a good Lawyer cannot legalise a house if the Junta declares it illegal.


The abogado today didn't charge me for his time and opinions. The one we instructed has quoted his fees, but as yet not asked for any payment. And from what we have been led to believe, he is waiting on the main certificate to be presented, the one that proves legality, before he proceeds with much else. This is one reason now might be a good time to make the change, whilst he can't claim to have put too many hours into the purchase, and so want to charge a high proportion of the quoted costs...although I think he'd still try anyway!

The Fuera de Ordainacion is a concern. As the solicitor said today, it makes the property neither legal or illegal, but somewhere in the middle. It can't be demolished, but can have electricity and water supplies run to it. But all the campo properties in the area I'm looking at are the same, and I'm getting the impression unless I buy an urban property all campo properties will be the same?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

It's the same with urban properties too, we have seen 1 that has been problem free that we put an offer on and they pulled it from the market.
Some are easily fixable others less so. Urban is no guarantee either.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Pazcat said:


> It's the same with urban properties too, we have seen 1 that has been problem free that we put an offer on and they pulled it from the market.
> Some are easily fixable others less so. Urban is no guarantee either.


Pulled it from the market for what reason?

What sort of legal problems can be associated with urban properties? I thought as they were generally built on 'habitable land' that they would be easier to buy on the legal aspects?

...When I say urban, I mean in an urban village environment, not a complex or urbanisation.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I guess they had second thoughts, we made an offer and then procrastinated as another property we were interested in and we decided to go after, that one fell through completely so we went back and despite the agent saying they had agreed on our offer a second time we ran into the owners at lunch and were quite surprised when we told them we were buying their house as they had pulled it from the market.

There can be all sorts of issues and we have seen a number of them, generally it's illegal builds on the property which either can be legalised or can't. A significant law change happened too while we were searching.
Same crap with habitation certs too, FdO's, owners willingness to fix or not fix the issues, and more. 

It just seems that there are very, very few houses on the market that we are interested in that are actually fit for sale because they all believe it is easily fixed before the sale(sometimes it is but it still wastes everyone's time) or more commonly that most people don't use due diligence and are oblivious to the whole thing. It's the only explanation I can think of because it's so common around these parts.

One day I'll post a complete run down of everything and our experience trying to buy a property here.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Pazcat said:


> I guess they had second thoughts, we made an offer and then procrastinated as another property we were interested in and we decided to go after, that one fell through completely so we went back and despite the agent saying they had agreed on our offer a second time we ran into the owners at lunch and were quite surprised when we told them we were buying their house as they had pulled it from the market.
> 
> There can be all sorts of issues and we have seen a number of them, generally it's illegal builds on the property which either can be legalised or can't. A significant law change happened too while we were searching.
> Same crap with habitation certs too, FdO's, owners willingness to fix or not fix the issues, and more.
> ...


That is an interesting post....makes me feel quite naive to think that our first offer would go through without much of a hitch.

After searching for 18 months, and the ups and downs of all that entails, I thought the finding of a property we actually wanted was a huge leap forward, but it seems it may have just been phase one of the process, and the start of an 'eventful' phase two!

With the number of houses that we have viewed, only two have really pushed our buttons. And the thought that we have to carry on searching for a needle in a haystack looking for that legal property that we also love isn't very encouraging.

I keep saying that a book on buying a property in Spain...a proper book, warts and all, would be a best seller...so get that book written!


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

StevejR1 said:


> That is an interesting post....makes me feel quite naive to think that our first offer would go through without much of a hitch.
> 
> After searching for 18 months, and the ups and downs of all that entails, I thought the finding of a property we actually wanted was a huge leap forward, but it seems it may have just been phase one of the process, and the start of an 'eventful' phase two!
> 
> ...


Steve , we felt the same , having tried to buy 2 and searched and viewed many more over a 2 yr period and then finding issues with both we tried to buy that couldn't be overcome , we kept on with the search and still bought a house in the campo but it is 10 years old so not so many issues with docs and we refused to sign anything or pay anything until the sellers lawyer and our lawyer verified it to be correct, it may work out with yours if you are happy with the guarantee that it will get a certificate but understand your concerns just in case it doesn't. The book is a work in progress btw lol !


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

maureen47 said:


> Steve , we felt the same , having tried to buy 2 and searched and viewed many more over a 2 yr period and then finding issues with both we tried to buy that couldn't be overcome , we kept on with the search and still bought a house in the campo but it is 10 years old so not so many issues with docs and we refused to sign anything or pay anything until the sellers lawyer and our lawyer verified it to be correct, it may work out with yours if you are happy with the guarantee that it will get a certificate but understand your concerns just in case it doesn't. The book is a work in progress btw lol !


Thank you Maureen,

I understand that it is easy to take the view of 'don't touch it with a barge pole!', and I totally understand where it is coming from. But it can also reach a stage where it feels like practically every property you view will have an issue, some quite major...and that's not good for the Spanish housing market. It can disillusion those who want to really make a life in Spain.

It makes it very difficult to buy anything. And with more people out there looking, and looking to buy now, the fact that a high percentage of the properties that they are looking at are really un-buyable is not a great scenario....and eventually those buyers will move elsewhere, to France, or elsewhere, which is a huge shame.

That's why I'm trying to be realistic, trying to be flexible, but obviously not to the verge of being stupid. That's why I'm trying to give the seller every chance to prove the legality. The habitation certificate is a different issue, because it is an unknown risk that will only become apparent in the future. My other worry is that during all this process is having an aborgado who may not have our best interest in mind.

I never once thought buying in Spain would be easy. And we have tried to do as much research as we can, and follow the sensible guidelines suggested, we went into it with our eyes wide open. But the minefield of the legal stage is quite scary, and a huge risk, and trying to research all the many licences and certificates that are needed, and what they all mean is quite a task. And that is made worse by the fact that you're having to put a lot of faith in this process into a legal representative, that from the start of first thinking about buying in Spain, is seen as one of the biggest decisions to make, and one of the worst to get wrong.

It really is a minefield, but we're trying our best to weave our way through the process, one way or another :fingerscrossed:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Forgive me if it has been already stated but I have a lot on my plate this morning and haven't time to read through every post, but is there a particular reason you want a campo place? 

I fancied living out in the campo and doing my own things but SWMBO raised objections - her mother is (now) 84 and I am almost 74 - how do we manage if we have no transport, a track washes out, an ambulance needs to find us, etc. and as we get older, those concerns start to become more relevant. We had only been here a short while and SWMBO's padrinos were staying with us for the weekend and the padrina suffered a stroke and had to be carted off to hospital in an ambulance, then a couple of years ago, I had a mild heart attack...

If you are just looking to have somewhere to be able to grow your own fruit and veg, why not have a house that is fully legal in a village and either buy or rent a bit of land, which is what some others have done.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Forgive me if it has been already stated but I have a lot on my plate this morning and haven't time to read through every post, but is there a particular reason you want a campo place?
> 
> I fancied living out in the campo and doing my own things but SWMBO raised objections - her mother is (now) 84 and I am almost 74 - how do we manage if we have no transport, a track washes out, an ambulance needs to find us, etc. and as we get older, those concerns start to become more relevant. We had only been here a short while and SWMBO's padrinos were staying with us for the weekend and the padrina suffered a stroke and had to be carted off to hospital in an ambulance, then a couple of years ago, I had a mild heart attack...
> 
> If you are just looking to have somewhere to be able to grow your own fruit and veg, why not have a house that is fully legal in a village and either buy or rent a bit of land, which is what some others have done.


When we first started looking at properties we looked at every sort of property...village, urban, remote, big, small, campo, near the village etc to get a feel of what we liked, and didn't like, what we wanted, and more importantly, what evolved into realising what we actually needed.

We looked at a lot of village houses, and I particularly remember one trip when for a few days we only looked at townhouses....now I like townhouses, I think they are seriously impressive how much room they have despite a deceptive facade...but I realised after seeing all of them, that although I liked them, I didn't want to live in one. My biggest issue was the parking situation, or lack of it most of the time. If I was even to consider it I'd have to rent one for 6 months first, just to see.

We were much more attracted to the rural properties, with that extra bit of room, and space to move about outside. And often they had some stunning views, which can be priceless. We took each property on its merits, but we always could see us in a rural property. And in fairness the other property we considered/considering is an urban property, but just on the outskirts of the village.

I do see your point on amenities too, and it is something we have given serious thought to. Our problem is that we are still relatively young (48, 42), so we can't buy a house now that is fitting for when we are 15-25 years older. We can try to come up with a compromise, but I think nearly all of the property we have viewed would not be suitable in later life, and that includes townhouses which can have some daunting stairs. We have had to take the view that whatever we bought we would probably have to sell in 20 years, and then buy something smaller, more manageable, and more suitable. It is a risk that we will need to sell it, but a lot can happen in 20 years and there's no way I can predict that, and there's always the chance I might not be around then anyway of course. 

So I guess we're not really set on a campo property, just a property that ticks most of our boxes, appeals to us, and we can make a home for the next 20 years, whatever type it is. And after probably 80 viewings I think I can only say there has been two that come into that category.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

StevejR1 said:


> T
> After searching for 18 months, and the ups and downs of all that entails, I thought the finding of a property we actually wanted was a huge leap forward, but it seems it may have just been phase one of the process, and the start of an 'eventful' phase two!
> 
> With the number of houses that we have viewed, only two have really pushed our buttons. And the thought that we have to carry on searching for a needle in a haystack looking for that legal property that we also love isn't very encouraging.


We are one phase 4 or 5 at least by now, this one will be the last one whatever the outcome. In many ways it's a compromise between legality and meeting our needs. We saw many amazing properties but they had more problems than they were worth or just didn't meet the major requirements for us.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Pazcat said:


> We are one phase 4 or 5 at least by now, this one will be the last one whatever the outcome. In many ways it's a compromise between legality and meeting our needs. We saw many amazing properties but they had more problems than they were worth or just didn't meet the major requirements for us.


A very disappointing situation, and *very* frustrating I'm sure Pazcat. I hope this one works out for you :fingerscrossed:

I'm often told this is "all part of the journey", and I'm sure it is, and I'm sure...hoping...that it will all be worth it. It would just be nice if there really were some positives sometimes, cos it surely shouldn't have to be this hard????

I don't like the thought of you having to give up your dream, or just being forced to accept the best you can get....and it worries me that we could end up in the same place, maybe very soon. It is such a shame, for the Spanish housing market, and Spain in general.

I think we will continue looking into this property, until all the licences and certificates come back, and then assess it then. There is always the other urban property, which we do really like, but I'll be honest it got very political with the estate agent, and we would have to be very firm on that one from the outset...or there is the possibility of just renting, either in the uk or in Spain, and continuing the search? That's not ideal, but who knows there may be a gem out there that we are missing...but it's just the associated dramas that might come with it?!?!

Anyway I wish you good luck Pazcat, I hope it works out for you


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## allonby (Oct 13, 2019)

Justina said:


> Does the property already have electricity and running water? I realise it is in the countryside, but it could be important later on.


yes you know the facts!
Dont listen to any agents or lawyers who just look for money deniro. I had the same grief allover so just walk away. Needs the Habitat for resale,water and electric or all grief to come later. Thats why lots of cheap houses all problems with years of grief to come if you buy.
Or just buy and get stuck there waiting for another gullible buyer as i see property's on the market for years ! Its your choice so good luck.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

This thread is 4.5 years old!


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

And deniro is an American movie actor, not the Spanish word for money


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

On the 25th September, the Junta de Andalucia had a decree made legal for AFO's. An AFO gives the right to connect to nearby services, BUT comes at a cost. 

Davexf


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