# How solvent is the Spanish Government?



## John98103 (Nov 12, 2015)

Considering a move to Spain and wondering about the financial stability of the government - 

Greece is in terrible shape and apparently staying there; have heard that things in Spain and Portugal are improving.

Would be interested in hearing from those who know something about the topic.

¡Gracias!


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## Gran Erry-Bredd (Nov 1, 2016)

If you wish to live in Spain, the government will be enquiring about your financial stability. :welcome:


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## John98103 (Nov 12, 2015)

True - 

But not relevant to the question -


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

John98103 said:


> True -
> 
> But not relevant to the question -








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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

John98103 said:


> Considering a move to Spain and wondering about the financial stability of the government -
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Really not so bad but we continue to keep our money and investments in the US because the company we work with is historically very secure. We have pensions deposited directly here and when needed, rarely, move funds and pay taxes on the income here. 


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

John98103 said:


> Considering a move to Spain and wondering about the financial stability of the government -
> 
> Greece is in terrible shape and apparently staying there; have heard that things in Spain and Portugal are improving.
> 
> ...


The debt of Spain is the 141% of his GDP...and growing.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

John98103 said:


> Considering a move to Spain and wondering about the financial stability of the government -
> 
> Greece is in terrible shape and apparently staying there; have heard that things in Spain and Portugal are improving.
> 
> ...


La deuda pública 'real' de España no es del 100% sino del 140% sobre el PIB - elEconomista.es


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

mickbcn said:


> The debt of Spain is the 141% of his GDP...and growing.




Not so bad!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Last week the OECD advised Spain to raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. Raise VAT and make it easier to sack people.........however the OECD have been wrong before

I do wonder why they don't raise these taxes, it could be used to improve social benefits.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> make it easier to sack people.........
> 
> I do wonder why they don't raise these taxes, it could be used to improve social benefits.


If they make it easier to sack people then they're definitely going to have to spend more on social benefits.

I do find it strange that on the one hand organisations like the OECD and the IMF take Spain to task about growing poverty and social inequality, and on the other hand urge policies upon them which would make the poorest poorer such as raising IVA and making it easier to sack people.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

mickbcn said:


> The debt of Spain is the 141% of his GDP...and growing.





> The United States recorded a government debt equivalent to 104.17 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2015. Government Debt to GDP in the United States averaged 61.94 percent from 1940 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 121.70 percent in 1946 and a record low of 31.70 percent in 1974.


United States Government Debt to GDP | 1940-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar

Also growing.

However, the US is better placed to survive with huge debt.

Interest rates in Spain are lower and will remain so, whereas at the moment I believe they are rising in the US.

I don't believe there is a current risk in Spain that people will not be allowed to access, or will have limited access, to their bank accounts.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mickbcn said:


> La deuda pública 'real' de España no es del 100% sino del 140% sobre el PIB - elEconomista.es


Depends what measurements you use. The official figure (used by the World Bank) is just over 100%. Slightly better than the USA, which is about 105%.

But of course neither country is about to go bankrupt, the world economy doesn't work like that. Debt isn't an indicator of instability.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> United States Government Debt to GDP | 1940-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, but .25% won't make much of a difference. It had no effect on the Stock Market. Interest rates are still at the rate in the 1940's in the US. Due to the lack of controls in the financial sector during the Bush years, the economy temporarily went into the ****ter. Lowering the interest rates had to be done. Hell, I remember buying my first home at a rate of 12% interest. 


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Depends what measurements you use. The official figure (used by the World Bank) is just over 100%. Slightly better than the USA, which is about 105%.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course neither country is about to go bankrupt, the world economy doesn't work like that. Debt isn't an indicator of instability.




Well said


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Last week the OECD advised Spain to raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. Raise VAT and make it easier to sack people.........however the OECD have been wrong before
> 
> 
> 
> I do wonder why they don't raise these taxes, it could be used to improve social benefits.




We called that a sin tax in the US


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

John98103 said:


> Considering a move to Spain and wondering about the financial stability of the government -
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What exactly is your question? Is your money safe here? This forum could easily degenerate into International economics!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Last week the OECD advised Spain to raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. Raise VAT and make it easier to sack people.........however the OECD have been wrong before
> 
> I do wonder why they don't raise these taxes, it could be used to improve social benefits.


The last times they have raised taxes on cigarettes & tobacco the year end tax take has been down 1 billion euros.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Last week the OECD advised Spain to raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. Raise VAT and make it easier to sack people.........however the OECD have been wrong before
> 
> I do wonder why they don't raise these taxes, it could be used to improve social benefits.


Spain raised taxes on spirits and tobacco in the last budget (Dec 2016), plus a new tax on sugary drinks, but I don't know if they've come into effect yet as I don't buy any of those things.



> The new levies on tobacco and alcohol are expected to raise €350 million, while duty will also rise on cigarettes (2.5%) and rolling tobacco (6%). The tax on sugary drinks, which are being targeted more and more by health campaigners, will also raise around €200 million.


Tax rises in Spain: Government announces tax hikes in bid to raise an extra â‚¬4.6 billion | In English | EL PAÃ�S


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## Gran Erry-Bredd (Nov 1, 2016)

So there you are John. You could aid the Spanish economy by smoking and drinking alcohol all day and getting sacked frequently. One would probably follow the other. :yo:


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