# Visa refused - help needed to understand the decision!!!



## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

My unmarried partner and I applied at the same time for Tier 4 dependent visa and Tier 4 (sponsored) student visa respectively. I got a visa, but he got a refusal. I would really appreciate your help in making sense out of the refusal decision, because I only see problems with the line of reasoning and arguments posed, but this does not help me in deciding whether to go for the admin review, or just reapply… 

*The Decision 
*
_“You intend to join your unmarried partner in the United Kingdom. I acknowledge that you have submitted some supporting documents. However, these documents do not demonstrate that you have been in a genuine and subsisting relationship for a period of two years prior to your sponsor submitting her application. There are many ways you could have satisfied me of this. I note that you have submitted seven photos of you and your sponsor as corroborating evidence. However, it is reasonable to expect you have more evidence of one of the most important days of your life and evidence of cohabitation with your sponsor. In the absence of such evidence, I am not therefore satisfied that your relationship with your sponsor is subsisting or that you intend to live with your sponsor as required by paragraph 319C(d) of HC395.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all of the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.”_

*Our doubts and issues with the decision
*
I am posting at the end of this post a full list of submitted documents, whereas here I am noting where we see the problem:

*It is not clear to me whether the ECO argues that our relationship is not genuine, subsisting, that my partner has failed to prove he plans to live with me in the UK, or all three together or just not “subsisting”?* Because in the second line ECO writes “genuine and subsisting”, elaborates problem with the photos in almost whole two sentences, goes on to bluntly add the cohabitation proof evidence without explaining how what we submitted failed to satisfy the immigration rules, and concludes by adding to this the joint living in the UK too, but cites only the para.319C(d) - the “subsisting” criteria. I honestly do not know what he/she is claiming as grounds for refusal… But, if we ask for the review, it seems best to assume that she/he is arguing all three. Or not?
The way I read it, the decision *argues the “genuine” part strongly through the photos argument, which is strange because*, as you could read, their argument is that we have submitted 7 photos but failed in the following: “However, it is reasonable to expect you have more evidence of one of the most important days of your life”. *What day is she/he referring to? *Surely they were not expecting wedding photos from an unmarried couple, or photo’s of children’s births or birthdays when we have no children – all of this is reported in the application form… Would I be right to conclude that this is just a copy/paste from another refusal formulation in relation to a married couple that the ECO has failed to adjust? Because, I don’t know what else to think… You will see at the end of this post that we submitted photos of our birthdays, wedding of friends and joint trips. Also, ECO mentions this weird photo argument as a key argument, however does not mention nor comment on why the other evidence did not add to this (joint trips, communication).
*A second part is that they claim we have not submitted enough “evidence of cohabitation with your sponsor”*. This is not elaborated at all, and you will see at the end of the post all of the documents which submitted and which we do not know why they were obviously not considered at all… I don’t know what else we could have submitted, nor why what we submitted failed to satisfy them… 
*It says we have failed to prove “that you intend to live with your sponsor”. *Aside from just dropping this argument here out of nowhere, and than failing to add a reference to the correct paragraph – 319C(e), I do not understand this claim, because we submitted letter from the uni accommodation service which, as you will see below, clearly states an apartment has been allocated on both our names, states the date of availability of the apartment and address and has all contact details of the uni service, and is on a document with header/footer/logo/signature… What else could we have submitted?

_*Submitted documents
*_
*Cover letter
*: Explaining what we are submitting and why and why

*For my (main applicant) grounds for application:
*-	My CAS letter (which is from a university classified as “highly trusted sponsor"

*For maintenance: 
*-	Copy of my scholarship letter (university scholarship from the same trusted sponsor)
-	Bank statements that show that close to 8000 GBP are available for use to us, from my bank account (with the difference from the scholarship and the min funds for the main applicant this is well over 8000 GBP…). And the money where there for 28 days and all header/footer/logo/stamp/signature was there…

*In addition, we also provided evidence of accommodation in the UK:
*-	Copy of a letter from the university accommodation office, which clearly states that an apartment on this and that address, from X date is available us and had both our names as spelled in the passport documents

For *proving our relationship* we submitted evidence in three clusters: (1) Proof that we are living in a relationship akin to marriage for at least two years (2) Proof of joint trips taken together, (3) Photos and (4) Proof of Communication. These are the separate documents for each section:

*(1) Proof that we are living in a relationship akin to marriage for at least two years
*-	Notary certified statement from the two of us stating under full criminal, moral and material responsibility that we are in a relationship since 11.2012 and living together since 07.2013, and the address where we live
-	Notary certified statement from our landlord certifying the conditions under which he has let us the place, and that my partner has been living there since 2010, and that I moved in in July 2013.
For both notary statements: we added a note in the cover letter explaining what it means under the national law to give such a statement (and added a reference to the law in a footnote as well), as well as highlighted that this is the only proof which we can submit on our unmarried partnership and which is provided by the state (notaries are public bodies here), because the state does not provide evidence of this, unless if a legal dispute arises, and we haven’t had such a case…
-	Internet bills on our address which comes on my partner’s name, and proof that the internet package which we use on this address has been transferred from the apartment which I rented before moving in with my partner to our current address and we also had to switch the package on my partner’s name. We also submitted a print screen (and a court certified translation) of the private user portal where it clearly shows that both our contact details are linked to the address and are valid to this date. This is the only bill which comes on our names.
-	Original bills from electricity, water and sewage covering the whole two-year period (one bill for every two/three months – 16 bills total), court certified translations of the bills, and e-banking statements confirming the bills have been paid from my account. These bills have the name of our landlord on them and are for the address where we live, and can be easily linked with the e-banking payment.

*(2) Proof of joint trips taken together:
*- Three trips abroad covering the two year period, and attached travel tickets and concert tickets for each of these trips, save for one as we went by bus and no longer have the tickets and the concert tickets also do not have our names on them. So, for this we wrote down in the cover letter the specific passport pages in both our passports and dates of the stamps, where she/he can check and see that he and I have the exact same border crossing stamps (we traveled across three countries to get to the final destination, making it highly unlikely that we were not traveling together).

*(3) Photos:
*- Seven photos covering the whole two years period, one from my partner’s birthday, one from our nephew’s birthday, one from our friend’s wedding, three are from our trips, and one is just a random photo taken at our home.

*(4) Communication:
*- Phone logs from January 2015 until today (we added an explanation in the cover letter that no records are available in general for the preceding period and submitted printed evidence of this; this is a rule under law).
- Print screens from our email inboxes, which show the email communication exchange (the first three pages of results for exchanged emails, and the last page, because this actually shows both a frequency and the first time we emailed eachother).
- Printed facebook friendship page – for which we highlighted in the cover letter that it has extra photos in addition to the ones submitted as separately printed. Us checking in places together is also visible here, including in the places abroad which we visited together.

I really do not know what to make out of ECO’s arguments, and whether to go for the admin review or reapply… I am more inclined to review because of the weakness of the arguments provided and moreover possible false application of immigration rules… Moreover, this will get the refusal off his record, which will not happen if he reapplies, right? Thank you all in advance!


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Oh jeeze, you really should have come here before you applied. The problem is that you didn't really supply any evidence of your relationship. I know you think you did but you didn't. First, all those notarized letters mean less than nothing. You need solid evidence, like a joint tenancy contract, that shows you've been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for two years. Logs since January 2015 - no. You need TWO YEARS. Email logs sound okay, but the FB friends page counts for nothing. 

Seven photos isn't going to cut it either. You need evidence from over the entire period of your relationship.

All that "national law" stuff makes me roll my eyes. The UK is not required to follow the law of some other country. You must supply the evidence the way the UK outlines. 

You need a rental contract showing you live together for two years.
You need mail addressed to both of you.
You need photos spanning two years.

In short, you need to prove you're not just friends. 

If I were you, I'd reapply but check here first with your documents to make sure you're meeting the requirements.


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

Thank you for your reply!! I see your points and thanks for raising these. Btw I did post a thread with questions about these exact points you are mentioning here on the forum on the 9th of June, but no one replied, so we went with what we found out from other people - from the UK embassy, people working on immigration in the UK, friends that were in a similar situation before; that is how we made a decision on what to submit.

The problem with submitting what you suggest, and which is clearly by far better evidence than what we have submitted, is the following:
- We submitted the notary statement from the landlord because we do not have a contract. The house where we live is lent to us by my partner's friend, under the condition that we pay the bills and be fully responsible for maintaining the property (painting/house fixes, etc). This is also written in the notary statement. I know that is not a problem of the UK embassy, but we thought that surely they should give at least some weight to a document certified by a public body (notaries are public bodies). But, I see your point that it is not. Moreover, we supplied proof that we are the people paying for the bills on this address. We thought this must add some weight as well. But again - obviously not... *How can we go about this if we reapply?*
- It is illegal in the country for a telecommunication companies to hold logs from previous years. This is why it spans only up to January this year. We cannot produce logs if we reapply because simply there are none... In case we reapply, *would it work if we submit print screens from sms-s? * Because we have these. *Also, should we have submitted more print screens from our inboxes?*
- The photos do cover the whole two year period, but obviously as you say seven was too little. From all I read here on the forum, advice was do not overcrowd your application, so we chose photos from birthdays, trips, friends' wedding... I guess we will need to look for more photos if we reapply...
- _*What would be a good substitute for joint mail? *_Because we do not get any mail in general, let alone mail on both our names... Bills come on the landlord's name, whereas tax statements are sent to the permanent address from our IDs, which are not the one where we live...
We were also advised to submit a joint bank account. But you do not get to have a joint account here; it is either on my name, or my partner's. However, I can or he can only authorise me to use each other's funds. *Would they accept this?*
Also, if we reapply, _*would statements from persons that know us as a couple help? *_I am talking about statements from persons such as high public officials, uni rectors, etc... Because we do have these, and they know us as a couple very well..

Finally - did I understood you well that the decision's overall claim is that they did not find our relationship to be both genuine and subsisting?
What about the part on how to prove he will be living with me in the UK? *What can we submit more than the letter from the uni on both our names to prove this point?*


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

Anyone else with help on reading the decision? I would be really grateful to any additional arguments and assistance in understanding and making sense out of the decision so that we can decide whether to ask a review or to reapply... And I would appreciate if you can look at the arguments which they offered in the refusal decision vis-a-vis what we submitted and how much sense this makes, and we should do... Thanks everyone in advance!


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

"one of the most important days of your life" - UKVI person got confused, ignore.

I think for unmarried partner visa, whereas it is important to prove you have known each other and all that, that type of evidence can be confusing. You should concentrate on proving you live at the same address. Photos and any additional information are to prove that you are a couple and not friends.

As for the proof of relationship - you have to approach this from the UK point of view. In other words, notary things and all that are mostly useles and perhaps just confusing. So, what you need is rental agreement in both your names. Bills in joint names or seperately, each going to your joint address. Bank account statements in joint names or seperately, again each going to your joint address. Insurance letters, letters from university, doctors, local council, mobile phone companies, parking tickets, whatever official bodies you have in your country? They need to cover the period of two years. 

If you don't have enough bills or official letters adressed to you to your address, write an explanation as to why this is the case. For example: "The utility bill is in our landlord's name and although we pay it, which can be evidenced from my bank statements, the landlord did not want it transfered to our names". A letter from the landlord confirming this. 

Pictures, and lots of them. Perhaps 20-30? This is normally overdoing it but since you were refused once, better to overdo it than not.

If you have these documents available, you can try going for the review, I don't think it costs much.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

> - We submitted the notary statement from the landlord because we do not have a contract. The house where we live is lent to us by my partner's friend, under the condition that we pay the bills and be fully responsible for maintaining the property (painting/house fixes, etc). This is also written in the notary statement. I know that is not a problem of the UK embassy, but we thought that surely they should give at least some weight to a document certified by a public body (notaries are public bodies). But, I see your point that it is not. Moreover, we supplied proof that we are the people paying for the bills on this address. We thought this must add some weight as well. But again - obviously not... *How can we go about this if we reapply?*


A letter from the landlord stating all this clearly. Does not need to be notarised or anything. You don't pay rent and you use the place under the assumption that you pay the bills. Bills are in your landlord's name because he did not want the hassle of changing the name or it's not common in your country or whatever. Proof of ownership of that place. Your landlord should be able to get it from the court or whatever. 



> - It is illegal in the country for a telecommunication companies to hold logs from previous years. This is why it spans only up to January this year. We cannot produce logs if we reapply because simply there are none... In case we reapply, *would it work if we submit print screens from sms-s? * Because we have these. *Also, should we have submitted more print screens from our inboxes?*


But you do receive bills from your mobile company? Use those letters if you have them. Use print screens, but bear in mind you still need to prove you live at the same address.




> - The photos do cover the whole two year period, but obviously as you say seven was too little. From all I read here on the forum, advice was do not overcrowd your application, so we chose photos from birthdays, trips, friends' wedding... I guess we will need to look for more photos if we reapply...


Correct...



> - _*What would be a good substitute for joint mail? *_Because we do not get any mail in general, let alone mail on both our names... Bills come on the landlord's name, whereas tax statements are sent to the permanent address from our IDs, which are not the one where we live...


It does not have to be in your joint name. It can be in separate names but sent to the same address. There is no easy substitute for this other than getting married... 



> We were also advised to submit a joint bank account. But you do not get to have a joint account here; it is either on my name, or my partner's. However, I can or he can only authorise me to use each other's funds. *Would they accept this?*


It doesn't have to be in joint names. All it has to do is be at the same address. So, like... if you go to your bank and print out the statements, they will usually have your address at the top. And if your partner does the same, so will his. The problem is that you would need bank statements from two years ago so if your bank is sending old fashioned snail mail letters, I hope you kept those. If it doesn't and you have online banking, you can try and print those if they cover the period of two years at the same address. If none of this works, I'm afraid... ehm... getting married is always an option? 




> Also, if we reapply, _*would statements from persons that know us as a couple help? *_I am talking about statements from persons such as high public officials, uni rectors, etc... Because we do have these, and they know us as a couple very well..


Unlikely... 



> Finally - did I understood you well that the decision's overall claim is that they did not find our relationship to be both genuine and subsisting?


Well, I think what they state is that you haven't proven it sufficiently...




> What about the part on how to prove he will be living with me in the UK? *What can we submit more than the letter from the uni on both our names to prove this point?*


[/QUOTE]

The rule of the thumb as far as I understand is you prove that you have been living together so far and they conclude that you are likely to be living together in the future. Letters from the uni referring to time in the future are a bit useless, you can always change your mind. What they want to see is that you have lived together until now.

Hope this helps!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Why don't you get married? ...... would solve a lot of problems.

A small registry wedding would suffice. After living together apparently for two years, it would seem pretty logical (if you are having great problems proving such living together) that you marry in order to move to a new country together.


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

ashkevron - I cannot thank enough for all the explanation. You have really shed A LOT of light to the logics behind the decision. Thank you!!

So, as we do have much of what you suggested, I guess we can go with the review. This was our preferred option either way because this way if we succeed my partner's refusal decision will be deleted. It should be free of charge as both of us are still in our home country and can apply from here (I read it is paid only if applying inside the UK).

I just have one more question: *Did I understood the review procedure correctly that we should not submit any additional documents until asked for? *Also, the refusal notice stated that we should use the "enclosed form" for the review procedure, but they did not send us the form. There was a link, however, to the gov.uk portal, and we found the form there. We can use that one right? This is the one: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-administrative-review-of-visa-decision


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Don't know, I was under the impression that people were submitting documents which were available at the time but weren't submitted but perhaps not, maybe someone else who has gone through the similar procedure or mods can shed some light on it. 

Same goes about the form. It looks about right though... 

Make sure you explain yourself clearly and are short, polite, concise and up to the point.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

When you live together, that is what proves your relationship. Travelling together and sending each other emails and texts are irrelevant. 

10-15 photos are sufficient. 

The onus is on you to prove that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least 2 years. You need to prove joint responsibilities in the form of joint tenancy, bank account and bills. If not joint then you need things addressed separately to the same address. 6 pieces of evidence each minimum. Your situation suggests that you can provide none of this and there really are no substitutes.

You should consider marriage.


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

Thank you for your reply, I have just two questions: 



nyclon said:


> 6 pieces of evidence each minimum.


Could you please clarify what you mean by 6 pieces of evidence each? Would 6 internet bills from various months covering the two year period count as 6 pieces of evidence for my partner, for example? Because we have that - the internet bill comes on his name and on this address. Or do you mean 6 clusters of different evidence per person? Also - I can be linked via the bills too - electricity and water and paid through my bank account. But, this was already submitted to them... Both for the internet for my partner (though, only two of them), and for the other bills - 16 bills (with a court certified translation and e-banking statements showing the transactions). 



nyclon said:


> You need to prove joint responsibilities in the form of joint tenancy, bank account and bills.


Does this mean that in your view there is no chance that through a review they would reconsider and accept notary certified statement from our landlord which states that we do live here since then and then, under these and these conditions...? Should we bother to raise this point in the review at all, if we go for it?

Thank you very much in advance!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

The thing is that simply paying a bill doesn't prove that you live there. Paying a bill that is addressed to you is much more convincing. You each need a selection of bills - not just a bill from 1 provider- spread across the previous 2 years. Doubtful that a letter notarised or not will be considered.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

> Could you please clarify what you mean by 6 pieces of evidence each? Would 6 internet bills from various months covering the two year period count as 6 pieces of evidence for my partner, for example? Because we have that - the internet bill comes on his name and on this address. Or do you mean 6 clusters of different evidence per person? Also - I can be linked via the bills too - electricity and water and paid through my bank account. But, this was already submitted to them... Both for the internet for my partner (though, only two of them), and for the other bills - 16 bills (with a court certified translation and e-banking statements showing the transactions).


Traditionally, what they want is 6 bills in his name, from I think 3 different sources, covering the period of two years (so the oldest bill should be from two years ago) and the same for you. 

So for example, for your partner: a bank statement from August 2013 and one from let's say August 2015, then an internet bill from January 2014 and one from January 2015 and two mobile phone bills from whenever to fill in the dates. So you have six statements, covering a two year period, from three different sources.

Then the same for you - bank statements, mobile phone bills, letters from doctors, parking tickets, car insurance letters, letters from university, whatever other official documents you can find, sent to your address and in your name.

Then you need a letter from your landlord stating when you moved in, what the deal is (you pay no rent, you pay utility bills which are in his name cause he did not want to bother transferring them to yours) and you draw relation between the bills and bank statements showing you are paying them. 





> Does this mean that in your view there is no chance that through a review they would reconsider and accept notary certified statement from our landlord which states that we do live here since then and then, under these and these conditions...? Should we bother to raise this point in the review at all, if we go for it?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance!


This notary thinggie, just forget about it and let your landlord just write a simple letter and have it translated. From what I remember when I was applying, there was some note somewhere which states that if you can't provide enough bills because for example you live with your parents and the bills are in their name, you need to state this and confirm it with the letter from your parents. So I think you should apply the same system here, only with your landlord friend rather than parents.

If the review is free and you have supplied actual bills, letters and such, with translation, then I'd say it can't hurt to go with the review. The problem is, you need to organise your thoughts, be very short and very precise and to the point. I've never done this so I don't really know how to do it and maybe you can have a look on the internet, but I would do it something like this:

"We would like the decision to refuse the [whatever visa your applied for] for [the name and passport number and any other UKVI ID number you may have] to please be reviewed. To prove our relationship and two years of joint habitation, we have supplied:

1. [x number] of letters from [whomever] dated [whenever]
2. -II-
3. -II-

We live in our friend's apartment rent free, and only pay utilities which are in his name. We supplied [or we are happy to supply if you haven't] the letter from our friend who owns the flat confirming this and his desire not to change the bills into our own names. Even though the bills are in his name, from my bank statements it can be seen [on dates] that I am paying the bills. 

We are a genuine couple and have lived together at [address] for [number of years]. We have supplied above mentioned bills in our names proving this and offered the explanation as to why we are unable to provide utilities bills which are in our name. We have additional [whatever and if you have them] official letters and bills sent to our joint address and proving we live together and are happy to supply these if needed. In view of this all, we hope you can reconsider and change your decision so as to grant [whatever visa] to my unmarried partner [whatever name] 

Regards

[signature]"

Sort it out a bit, I just typed it very quickly...


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

nyclon said:


> The thing is that simply paying a bill doesn't prove that you live there. Paying a bill that is addressed to you is much more convincing. You each need a selection of bills - not just a bill from 1 provider- spread across the previous 2 years. Doubtful that a letter notarised or not will be considered.


*Could I submit online orders from amazon/other vendors which have my name and this address as the delivery address? * However, these also have my permanent address as the billing address. I do not keep the original packaging, but I can print the emails and for the amazon orders - I can also download the invoices.. I can also try to find the slips which they send with the orders somewhere around the house...

Also, *I have sent DHL packages from this address before to working partners in Europe. The receipts have this address as sending address. Could these slips help?* They should confirm I have been sending things out from this address, no? Speaking of DHL - I got a visitor UK visa this spring and this address was my designated delivery address for the passport (it was a priority procedure). Can I submit that too? Btw - in that application, I had reported my unmarried partnership, and stated that my partner will not be traveling with me (I was going to a seminar, so work purposes). Should we bring that up in case we reapply, or is that just going around in circles?


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

You need letters from official organizations - bills, banks, governments. Amazon receipts will not work.


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

nyclon said:


> When you live together, that is what proves your relationship.


Ok, now that the panic is a bit cooled off in our house, we remembered the following: 
- *We have a contract with the water and sewage company (a public company) for paying a debt on instalments signed by my partner where it states that he overtakes the responsibility to pay out the debt from the landlord*... Would this help in linking him to the address, given that we already submitted a statement from our landlord which says that assuming all responsibilities in relation to the bills, such as this one, falls on us? The contract was concluded feb 2014.
- We have a letter from *our lawyer* which, aside from informing us that they completed a service of acquiring documents on our behalf and enclosing those documents, she also wrote the legal advice which she previously gave us via phone regarding how the state certifies an unmarried partnership in this country. It is just a short paragraph summarising what she had already explained to us, but it is still there in written. The letter is addressed to our address and to both our names. We used the wording from that letter to explain in the cover letter why we are submitting the notary statement from the two of us certifying our partnership, but we did not send the letter with his application.. *Would sending it (with a translation, of course) help our case in any way? The letter is from june 2015.*



nyclon said:


> You should consider marriage.


In the event that we decide to do this, how will it look to the ECO someone asking a tier 4 dependant visa as an unmarried partner getting refused, and then asking the same visa a month later as a married dependant? *Won't my partner get refused right away?*


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

> Ok, now that the panic is a bit cooled off in our house, we remembered the following:
> - *We have a contract with the water and sewage company (a public company) for paying a debt on instalments signed by my partner where it states that he overtakes the responsibility to pay out the debt from the landlord*... Would this help in linking him to the address, given that we already submitted a statement from our landlord which says that assuming all responsibilities in relation to the bills, such as this one, falls on us? The contract was concluded feb 2014.


Should do, the idea is that it has to be in the form of a letter sent to your address, but my experience is that, despite the popular belief, UKVI people are not ogres and if there is genuine explanation and things add up, they will consider slightly unorthodox proofs. Now, you have to bear in mind that notaries and lawyers don't add anything, so you've done things the wrong way a bit going through it all. But I think, as long as you can find genuine documents, letters (looks around, I know people kept telling me that and I kept thinking I know I don't have anything but once I looked, I found more things than I ever expected) and write a clear and concise explanation, you are in with a chance they'll reconsider.




> We have a letter from *our lawyer* which, aside from informing us that they completed a service of acquiring documents on our behalf and enclosing those documents, she also wrote the legal advice which she previously gave us via phone regarding how the state certifies an unmarried partnership in this country. It is just a short paragraph summarising what she had already explained to us, but it is still there in written. The letter is addressed to our address and to both our names. We used the wording from that letter to explain in the cover letter why we are submitting the notary statement from the two of us certifying our partnership, but we did not send the letter with his application.. *Would sending it (with a translation, of course) help our case in any way? The letter is from june 2015.*


Don't know, may do. The thing is that you are going about it in a slightly unorthodox fashion cause the orthodox fashion is utility bills and such. But don't overload them, find what is closest to what the UKVI people have asked for (official letters and documents sent to your address), bear in mind that notaries and lawyers don't count for much, write a letter explaining the situation and hope for the best. No one can tell you for certain if it will work or not or if they do, they'll tell you it won't cause it's not a standard procedure. So, you have to work with what you have, hope for the best or get married.




> In the event that we decide to do this, how will it look to the ECO someone asking a tier 4 dependant visa as an unmarried partner getting refused, and then asking the same visa a month later as a married dependant? *Won't my partner get refused right away?*


[/QUOTE]

No, it's quite a common thing to do, after having asked for my umptieth tourist visa, I was actually taken aside in the UK embassy itself and told to get married cause that was going to be the last tourist visa I'm going to get. And to be honest, it wasn't a bad suggestion at all, I mean we did talk about it just never really put the effort of doing it without that little push. Don't think of it as getting married to sort the visa out, in the grand scheme of things, if you are living together for over two years and are in a stable relationship, that's the way things naturally go. If you are not in that type of a committed relationship, then the UKVI people may have a point rejecting the visa as they did, see what I mean? 

Now, whereas they probably did not doubt the validity of my relationship, yours is a bit of "put your money where your mouth is" situation and they will have to accept you as married cause you would be legally married. You have not been rejected because there is no doubt whatsoever that you are not a couple so chances of them seeing the marriage as fraudulent is incredibly small, almost non-existent I'd say. You just failed to prove the relationship to their satisfaction.

I'd say try and have a review with whatever documents you can find and explain the situation clearly and if that doesn't work, get married and try again. That should do it.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Lots of people intending to emigrate to another country decide to get married in order to facilitate immigration procedures.

This is not getting married for convenience sake - they were intending to marry and had been in a long term relationship prior to the prospective move. The move just brought the marriage forward.

Did it myself - 40 years ago to move to South Africa.


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## DeaMK (Jun 9, 2015)

We got so bugged up in trying to figure out how to approach the administrative review request preparation, and what to say and not to say in those less than 400 words, that I never managed to write thank you for your comments!  

We will go for the review and hope for the best. I will let you know how it goes. Thank you all again! It really means a lot to read about other people's point of view


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