# Thai medical insurance



## stednick

*medical insurance*

To the Thailand expat retirees:

I will be joining you in a few short years. As a prior resident with a Thai wife and a frequent visitor I am fairly well informed concerning Thailand. The one large gap in my knowledge is concerning health insurance. I, and my wife, are both medically sound with no known medical concerns. However, medical emergencies do occur and health insurance is a requirement both for an unanticipated emergency and for the peace-of-mind provided.

My question(s) to the expat retirees are: What health insurance policy's are available?, What policy do you carry and at what cost?, and, if and when you use the policy do you consider it "fair and reasonable"? 

I thank you in advance for your response. Tom


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## jb44

Basically if you know what eventually will kill you do not bother coming to Thailand,on the other hand depending on your age do not bother with insurance,hardly anybody has it.
Register with cheap state hospital ,for a doctor and pills,but for anything else medical tourism is the way to go. One twentieth of the surgical costs here can be obtained for a three hour plane ride out of Thailand ,and I may add far superior


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## stednick

jb44 said:


> Basically if you know what eventually will kill you do not bother coming to Thailand,on the other hand depending on your age do not bother with insurance,hardly anybody has it.
> Register with cheap state hospital ,for a doctor and pills,but for anything else medical tourism is the way to go. One twentieth of the surgical costs here can be obtained for a three hour plane ride out of Thailand ,and I may add far superior


jb44, thanks for the reply/advice, my concern is along the lines of emergency medical, appendix, serious infection, heart attack, etc. 

I'm not really concerned, when your numbers up your numbers up, just want to protect myself against an unexpected medical invoice i.e. BT 1,000,000

Thanks for your advice. Tom


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## stednick

Marc1979 said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> With regards to Health Insurance provision in Thailand - I am sure you are aware that the emergency services are not as advanced as in USA or Europe - for example ambulances are not as prevalent in Thailand as in the west. In addition many of the Doctors working in Thai hospitals are often specialist consultants in one medical area or another - there are not as many family or G.P doctors available.
> 
> As an expatriate it is important to carry health insurance documents or insurance card with you as in the event of an emergency or hospital admission you will needs these details from the outset and in many cases be expected to pay in advance for treatment - money plays a large part in Healthcare for Thailand.
> 
> In more western countries and Europe the payment is not as much of an issue as we have statutory basic medical cover. For this reason it is advisable to have a good level of comprehensive private cover. There are many policies available for expatriates in Thailand - and benefits can be tailored to suit requirements & budgets.
> 
> If you would like some further details I can assist with this as I am a specialist international health insurance broker. Please feel free to email me - [email protected]


Marc, thanks for the reply. I'll be contacting you for options and quotes in 3-4 years if all remains status quo. thanks, Tom


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## mikecwm

jb44 said:


> Basically if you know what eventually will kill you do not bother coming to Thailand,on the other hand depending on your age do not bother with insurance,hardly anybody has it.
> Register with cheap state hospital ,for a doctor and pills,but for anything else medical tourism is the way to go. One twentieth of the surgical costs here can be obtained for a three hour plane ride out of Thailand ,and I may add far superior


Maybe I'm a bit DUH today, but where 3 hours plane ride from BKK can you get superior medical treatment for 1/20 the cost in Thailand?
Not that it will help you if you're pinned in your car with 2 broken legs because a truck ran a red light in front of you.


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## Song_Si

^ - can't speak for medical costs in CM, in 3 years here have only required a few doctor visits, for an average consultation and prescription at a GP I've paid 300-500 baht; saw an ENT Specialist in Phuket and her fee was 900b incl prescription. 
Maybe 'just lucky' but each dr I've met has spoken English, 2 had done their postgraduate studies in Australia, I have no complaints about either treatment or costs.
I'd still recommend medical/accident insurance cover.


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## jerryjan

*Health Insurance*

I have recently been quoted a figure of approximately $1600 per year for hospitalization insurance through a company called HCI (Health Care International). The insurance is for hospitalizations and day surgeries only. I think this a very reasonable amount to pay for insurance, however, when one turns 70, which is not that far off, the annual fee doubles to approximately $3300 per year. This is quite an increase considering that everything will be increasing in cost over the coming years and someone might not be able to pay $3300 in addition to all the other increases.

Does anyone out there have a better plan?

Thanks so much!


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## joseph44

Better? Don't know. 
I do have April Mobilité from France. 
At the moment I pay Euro 1110 per year (50 yo, single, no medical history)
at 70 it will be approx. Euro 2562 per year. 

Coverage: Medical expenses as in-patient.
Options: in-patient, dental, repatriation, life

http://www.aprilmobilite.com/assurance/site/fr/lang/en/accueil


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## Cer

I have been insured by HCI (premium plan)for the last 5 years and now I am insured (since 1 April this year) with April(ambassade).
My reasons for the change(I changed at an age of 69 !):
**Limited amount for dread diseases of 200.000€ LIFETIME*.
*Sky rocketing of premium at 70+
*difficult communication and administrative errors.
*acceptance age limit with April at 69.


I never did need any assistance or made any claim.
(the first point was the most important)


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## cooked

Cer said:


> I have been insured by HCI (premium plan)for the last 5 years and now I am insured (since 1 April this year) with April(ambassade).
> My reasons for the change(I changed at an age of 69 !):
> **Limited amount for dread diseases of 200.000€ LIFETIME*.
> *Sky rocketing of premium at 70+
> *difficult communication and administrative errors.
> *acceptance age limit with April at 69.
> 
> 
> I never did need any assistance or made any claim.
> (the first point was the most important)


You can make the same comments about all of these 'cheap' insurances to a greater or lesser extent. I have found a few insurances that have a good reputation and guarantee not to raise your premiums with age. There was Nordic for example, which was around ฿13 000 a month if I remember! I think that I will be going for 'self insurance', that is to say I put an equivalent sum of money aside every month. I also have a repatriation insurance so if I find myself unable to pay medical bills I will be flown back to Switzerland where I will get 'free' treatment. Sounds good in theory, but I can see all sorts of difficult choices that I may have to make - chronic illness versus acute, leaving my Thai family behind and being stuck in a sterile Swiss hospital .. every case is different and I have been looking at this since February. Next January I turn 65 so I have to decide soon.


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## Cer

cooked said:


> You can make the same comments about all of these 'cheap' insurances to a greater or lesser extent. I have found a few insurances that have a good reputation and guarantee not to raise your premiums with age. There was Nordic for example, which was around ฿13 000 a month if I remember! I think that I will be going for 'self insurance', that is to say I put an equivalent sum of money aside every month. I also have a repatriation insurance so if I find myself unable to pay medical bills I will be flown back to Switzerland where I will get 'free' treatment. Sounds good in theory, but I can see all sorts of difficult choices that I may have to make - chronic illness versus acute, leaving my Thai family behind and being stuck in a sterile Swiss hospital .. every case is different and I have been looking at this since February. Next January I turn 65 so I have to decide soon.


With april international (APRIL International: Assurance santé expatriés, assurance voyage étranger, rapatriement et CFE) you would pay NOW (=tariff 2012 and age 61-65) for hospitalisation;

plan essentielle:€1980,- annual (€2532--€3144)
plan medium :€2268,- " (€2904--€3612)
plan extenso :€2580,- (€3324--€4092)

The second price is tariff for 66-70 and the third is tariff for above 70.!
included HIV-cancer and so on if not yet diagnosed at acceptance.

Saving 13000 baht/month ,will not bring you enough financial reserves to (financial)survive a serious accident or illness.
You still have the chance to obtain a good insurance (depending on possible pre-conditions??) at the moment and I strongly advise to do so.It brought me a lot of confidence and calmness after the sudden loss of my Dutch health insurance (new law per 01-01-2006)


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## cooked

Cer said:


> With april international (APRIL International: Assurance santé expatriés, assurance voyage étranger, rapatriement et CFE) you would pay NOW (=tariff 2012 and age 61-65) for hospitalisation;
> 
> plan essentielle:€1980,- annual (€2532--€3144)
> plan medium :€2268,- " (€2904--€3612)
> plan extenso :€2580,- (€3324--€4092)
> 
> The second price is tariff for 66-70 and the third is tariff for above 70.!
> included HIV-cancer and so on if not yet diagnosed at acceptance.
> 
> Saving 13000 baht/month ,will not bring you enough financial reserves to (financial)survive a serious accident or illness.
> You still have the chance to obtain a good insurance (depending on possible pre-conditions??) at the moment and I strongly advise to do so.It brought me a lot of confidence and calmness after the sudden loss of my Dutch health insurance (new law per 01-01-2006)


I agree that saving ฿13 000.- a month won't pay for a serious illness, so how do you think that an insurance company is going to make money on a guy that is paying ฿8 300 to ฿12 000 a month going to make money out of you? I have seen negative criticism of April on the Internet which doesn't mean anything of course.

I did mention that I have the backup of being insured to be flown home on a hospitalised plane if ever I get into a situation where I can no longer eceive adequate treatment in Thailand (meaning that I have no money).


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## Cer

cooked said:


> I agree that saving ฿13 000.- a month won't pay for a serious illness, so how do you think that an insurance company is going to make money on a guy that is paying ฿8 300 to ฿12 000 a month going to make money out of you? I have seen negative criticism of April on the Internet which doesn't mean anything of course.
> 
> I did mention that I have the backup of being insured to be flown home on a hospitalised plane if ever I get into a situation where I can no longer receive adequate treatment in Thailand (meaning that I have no money).


You need to become MEMBER of April and ,to the best of my knowledge,the company is regulated by the state (France).They only can increase the premium if the government allows so..(solidarity base).

I did contact the Bangkok hospital group (as I do know the "international insurances" manager) and he confirmed me about acceptance of both companies (IHC and April but.......they like April better because IHC always discusses and are late with the payment!!! (those were his words).

You will need an medical check up before acceptance (April) and that is reasonable.


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## cooked

Cer said:


> With april international (APRIL International: Assurance santé expatriés, assurance voyage étranger, rapatriement et CFE) you would pay NOW (=tariff 2012 and age 61-65) for hospitalisation;
> 
> plan essentielle:€1980,- annual (€2532--€3144)
> plan medium :€2268,- " (€2904--€3612)
> plan extenso :€2580,- (€3324--€4092)
> 
> The second price is tariff for 66-70 and the third is tariff for above 70.!
> included HIV-cancer and so on if not yet diagnosed at acceptance.
> 
> Saving 13000 baht/month ,will not bring you enough financial reserves to (financial)survive a serious accident or illness.
> You still have the chance to obtain a good insurance (depending on possible pre-conditions??) at the moment and I strongly advise to do so.It brought me a lot of confidence and calmness after the sudden loss of my Dutch health insurance (new law per 01-01-2006)


Thank you for your advertising. If you would care to read my post again you will see that I have the option of going back (to Switzerland) for medical treatment.
I do not have confidence (peace of mind) in any insurance company that has hidden away in its small print the fact that they reserve for themselves the right to increase the premium or actually remove your cover at any time. 
The companies are there to make money and entering the age of risk brings you into an age bracket that no business in his right mind would be interested in.
April International has been bitterly criticised in the past, I don't trust any of them apart from Nordic which is very expensive + you pay the first $2500.- expenses a year.


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## Cer

jerryjan said:


> Thanks to all of you for your input. Unless I misunderstand what you are saying, there doesn't seem to be a better option than HCI. Is that what I'm reading?


I choose April for 2 main reasons I mentioned, being:
Very high premium above 70.
Limited amount for dread diseases.

HCI acceptance age till 65
April acceptance age till 70

You can read all conditions of both on the internet.


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## Cer

To the best of my knowledge:
e-mail:[email protected]
Tel:+33 173029393
Fax:+33 173029390
Facebook:APRIL International - Company - Paris, France | Facebook

On my email request they mailed me the full information to download: "Insurance cover for expatriates of any nationality "

I like to undeline that I don't have any commercial connection to any of both insurance companies mentioned by me.


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## mikecwm

Once you reach the age where serious health problems can be expected (80+ ?) then any insurance company is going to jack your premiums so high you will no longer be able to afford them. 
You have now paid a great deal of money to them and have nothing to show for it except maybe peace of mind during the years you did not need them.
I will "self insure" by starting off with 1M Baht once I move to Thailand at 67 in 2 years and add 100,000 each year to that.
By the time I reach 80 there should be enough money in the pot to cover almost any illness.
If I die peacefully in my sleep one night then there will be money for my son and wife. 
The best insurance (just as in sailing) is to keep the boat off the rocks - live a healthy life with exercise and a good diet.


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## Cer

mikecwm said:


> Once you reach the age where serious health problems can be expected (80+ ?) then any insurance company is going to jack your premiums so high you will no longer be able to afford them.
> You have now paid a great deal of money to them and have nothing to show for it except maybe peace of mind during the years you did not need them.
> I will "self insure" by starting off with 1M Baht once I move to Thailand at 67 in 2 years and add 100,000 each year to that.
> By the time I reach 80 there should be enough money in the pot to cover almost any illness.
> If I die peacefully in my sleep one night then there will be money for my son and wife.
> The best insurance (just as in sailing) is to keep the boat off the rocks - live a healthy life with exercise and a good diet.


This it is very personal.
I think better safe than sorry.I would feel terrible in case our saving money would go to the hospital in stead to my wife.
Please realise that hospital/medicine costs nowadays are not too much different from those in the European countries.
As said April mobilite is not allowed to make such age increases (by law).
But as I wrote it is a personal choice.

During the last 8 years I have had many requests to help (with money) when ther was an accident (again) with farangs who didn't have the cash(enough) to cover.A sad thing.


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## cooked

I got a few quotes, here in the attachment. I told the guy that I will be 65 in January and didn't want any unexpected increases in premiums after a certain age or because of existing/pre-conditions.


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## RobSg

*Americans with Medicare in Thailand*

I am currently semi-retired in Singapore, but thinking of retiring in Thailand. My question is that I have US Medicare, and am wondering if there are a lot of American ex-pats in Thailand that have Medicare (like I do) with the supplementary and sometimes wonder why they are paying for it if they can't use it there. Just curious.


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## Wayward Wind

RobSg said:


> I am currently semi-retired in Singapore, but thinking of retiring in Thailand. My question is that I have US Medicare, and am wondering if there are a lot of American ex-pats in Thailand that have Medicare (like I do) with the supplementary and sometimes wonder why they are paying for it if they can't use it there. Just curious.


I don't have it yet, but it is my understanding that Medicare Part A is automatic at age 65 and is free; the supplemental (Part B) is not free but you have to register for it - it is not automatic. Not sure if you can opt out of Part B if you are already registered. The United States Social Security Administration might have more information

You are correct that it cannot be used abroad.


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## alextt

*Fixed price insurane*



mikecwm said:


> Once you reach the age where serious health problems can be expected (80+ ?) then any insurance company is going to jack your premiums so high you will no longer be able to afford them.
> You have now paid a great deal of money to them and have nothing to show for it except maybe peace of mind during the years you did not need them.
> I will "self insure" by starting off with 1M Baht once I move to Thailand at 67 in 2 years and add 100,000 each year to that.
> By the time I reach 80 there should be enough money in the pot to cover almost any illness.
> If I die peacefully in my sleep one night then there will be money for my son and wife.
> The best insurance (just as in sailing) is to keep the boat off the rocks - live a healthy life with exercise and a good diet.


I really don't like the fact that insurance companies drop you or cause you to drop them (with sky high premiums) at old age. If you paid insurance for many years you you would like to be covered when you need it the most (when your old). The risk should be factored in the premium.
I was looking for fixed premium health insurance company, that also can't raise premiums based on claims and is lifetime renewable.
I found Nordic Health Care to sell exactly that. The premium is fixed at the age group you buy the insurance. It seems to me they have good coverage and high limits, and yes they are more expensive then other insurance companies for the entry age group. Their hospital high deductible (20K USD) plan premiums are reasonable, and currently look like the best I can get for the price. Better I self insure myself for 20KUSD, and anything above that, the insurance company will pay. 
I did ask brokers that sell them and they did recommend them, but I haven't been able to find any customer reviews about them.
Anyone here has used them (Nordic Health Care)?


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## stednick

*Interesting Subject - Medical Insurance*

Insurance companies are businesses, as such, they must make money, pay employees, pay taxes, be competitive, pay claims, and, most importantly, be profitable. If they are not profitable they cannot expand (accept new customers), and will disappear, go bankrupt and dissolve. Leaving the currently insured claimants "holding-the-bag". 

Insurance companies live And die statistically. Their whole business plan and operations are based on Statistics. Medical databases show that; you, who are X number of years old, of gender X and nationality X, will statistically require X amount of medical services costing X amount of money per year. Therefore, The statistical monetary burden you represent must be exceeded by X percent to cover the insurances operating costs and profit margin. This statistically determined figure, as a matter of the insurance companies survival, must be less than the premiums you pay.

Insurance companies must remain competitive, therefore, they will keep the premium number they charge you as low as they can to remain competitive while paying their operating costs and, of course, the profit margin which is payed to their stockholders as dividends. 

Insurance companies are not "stupid". Yes, I know this is an arguable point. They must continue to increase their market share. To do this they must, if possible, beat the competition. And, yes, they do try to beat the competition with the hope of securing the lion's share of the available customer base.

So, where does this leave us. The lowly expat, seeking an individual insurance policy, either single or married, and possibly family. We obviously can't secure a "group" rate. Although the Pattaya Expat Club has managed to do this, at least for their "younger" members - Kudo's to them.

You/we really do not have options. You have to review what is available and select, to the best of your ability, the best package available for you and yours. Although, some expats are in the enviable position of being able to self-insure. Good fortune to those who have the sizable nest egg or family fortune required to select this option. I will also refer to a most "alarming" warning message provided by Cer in an earlier post "During the last 8 years I have had many requests to help (with money) when there was an accident (again) with farangs who didn't have the cash(enough) to cover. A sad thing."

I've made these statements before; 1) the cost of medicine, medical treatments, and insurance premiums will continue to increase. 2) the pool of customers available to insurance companies will continue to increase (population growth), 3) Insurance companies will become more selective in accepting "new" customers, and, 4) the older you are, the more it will cost to insure you. 

So, a fact-of-life and of-death. At some point in time, it will become cost-prohibitive to maintain your existence (keep you alive). The thing you must strive to do is adequately insure yourself so you can maintain a "good quality of life", until such a time as you get that final call.

On the subject of "fixed" insurance as mentioned before. Factually impossible. No one can predict the future nor the future cost of medicine and medical procedures, never mind inflation and currency fluctuations. Therefore, an insurance company cannot offer a "fixed" future price insurance policy without charging so much money that the premiums are cost prohibitive. If such a policy did exist you, as a subscriber, would be guaranteed to lose money as the insurance company cannot lose money and continue to exist. 

The only suggestion I can make is to use an insurance broker to review ALL you medical insurance options. Then select what is best for you. Good luck to all.


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## cooked

The above comment just about sums it up, I took about 6 months to come to the conclusion that I didn't want to fork out money for peace of mind and then find myself without reserves when the time comes.
Has anyone had experience with local, Thai insurance? Most of the companies that people know of (April, BUPA, Nordic and so on) are offering international insurance I think. (without USA and Canada). As soon as I get my first marriage visa extension and have a Tabien Baan I plan to visit the local government hospital to see what options are available and to see if I can envisage being cared for in such a hospital.


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## jerryjan

*Health Insurance*

Is anyone familiar with HCI - Health Care International? Their rates are very reasonable if you are under 70 years - ballpark - $165/month; however, the rates double when you reach 70.


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## Cer

jerryjan said:


> Is anyone familiar with HCI - Health Care International? Their rates are very reasonable if you are under 70 years - ballpark - $165/month; however, the rates double when you reach 70.


I was 5 calender years with IHC.
At an age of 68 I checked through internet their rate at 70 and indeed there was a gigantic increase (I had the premium plan.)
My phonecall with them was not really encouraging (I hadn't any claim in all the 5 years.).Further there were a lot of restrictions,the so called dread deseases which are ALL covered with April (including cancer-hiv and so on) at .
With IHC the dread/chronic deseases are with premium plan covered for $200.000 LIFETIME.The other plans at max.$20.000 LIFETIME.
Even if it is first case.I assume,although healthy now,that somewhere in my lifetime something (illness) will show up.

I could enter the insurance plan with April till my 70th,so I signed up with their "Ambassade extenso" plan last year.Covering €500.000 per YEAR
.
As I wrote before the insurance company April is only allowed to increase premiums after the government allows ALL (state and private) companies to have an increase,the percetage of which is dictated by the State.


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## alextt

stednick said:


> Insurance companies are businesses, as such, they must make money, pay employees, pay taxes, be competitive, pay claims, and, most importantly, be profitable. If they are not profitable they cannot expand (accept new customers), and will disappear, go bankrupt and dissolve. Leaving the currently insured claimants "holding-the-bag".
> 
> Insurance companies live And die statistically. Their whole business plan and operations are based on Statistics. Medical databases show that; you, who are X number of years old, of gender X and nationality X, will statistically require X amount of medical services costing X amount of money per year. Therefore, The statistical monetary burden you represent must be exceeded by X percent to cover the insurances operating costs and profit margin. This statistically determined figure, as a matter of the insurance companies survival, must be less than the premiums you pay.
> 
> Insurance companies must remain competitive, therefore, they will keep the premium number they charge you as low as they can to remain competitive while paying their operating costs and, of course, the profit margin which is payed to their stockholders as dividends.
> 
> Insurance companies are not "stupid". Yes, I know this is an arguable point. They must continue to increase their market share. To do this they must, if possible, beat the competition. And, yes, they do try to beat the competition with the hope of securing the lion's share of the available customer base.
> 
> So, where does this leave us. The lowly expat, seeking an individual insurance policy, either single or married, and possibly family. We obviously can't secure a "group" rate. Although the Pattaya Expat Club has managed to do this, at least for their "younger" members - Kudo's to them.
> 
> You/we really do not have options. You have to review what is available and select, to the best of your ability, the best package available for you and yours. Although, some expats are in the enviable position of being able to self-insure. Good fortune to those who have the sizable nest egg or family fortune required to select this option. I will also refer to a most "alarming" warning message provided by Cer in an earlier post "During the last 8 years I have had many requests to help (with money) when there was an accident (again) with farangs who didn't have the cash(enough) to cover. A sad thing."
> 
> I've made these statements before; 1) the cost of medicine, medical treatments, and insurance premiums will continue to increase. 2) the pool of customers available to insurance companies will continue to increase (population growth), 3) Insurance companies will become more selective in accepting "new" customers, and, 4) the older you are, the more it will cost to insure you.
> 
> So, a fact-of-life and of-death. At some point in time, it will become cost-prohibitive to maintain your existence (keep you alive). The thing you must strive to do is adequately insure yourself so you can maintain a "good quality of life", until such a time as you get that final call.
> 
> On the subject of "fixed" insurance as mentioned before. Factually impossible. No one can predict the future nor the future cost of medicine and medical procedures, never mind inflation and currency fluctuations. Therefore, an insurance company cannot offer a "fixed" future price insurance policy without charging so much money that the premiums are cost prohibitive. If such a policy did exist you, as a subscriber, would be guaranteed to lose money as the insurance company cannot lose money and continue to exist.
> 
> The only suggestion I can make is to use an insurance broker to review ALL you medical insurance options. Then select what is best for you. Good luck to all.


What you wrote is true. And I would be suspicious of any totally "fixed" premium for insurance.
But the "fixed" premium Nordic offers, is fixed in the sense that you remain in the the age group you are when you enter the insurance. Nordic can (and does) increase the premium year by year to adjust for medical inflation. They report that they have only increase premiums by about %5 each year for the past 5 years.
You do pay extra for this, above your current age risk, but they also factor in that some people will stop renewing before their premium matches their risk, which makes it more profitable for the insurance company.
If you can reasonably estimate that you will be able to pay the premium with 5% increase a year, and stick with it, your total premium expense will be considerably less then an insurance policy with an age dependent changing premium. 
My main problem with Nordic is that I currently can't find any complaints about them, or good recommendations form people on line.


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## stednick

*Due Diligence*



alextt said:


> My main problem with Nordic is that I currently can't find any complaints about them, or good recommendations form people on line.


alextt:

Your statement; "My main problem with Nordic is that I currently can't find any complaints about them, or good recommendations form people on line." is a good thing. In general, people complain. Few bother to laud and when they do, where? 

Our problem as expats is we are a relatively small community. Gathering an adequate and valid cross section of information concerning a specific issue in the expat community is a hit and miss proposition. 

As you are computer and web literate, and have spent a reasonable amount of time and effort researching the Nordic Insurance issue, you can reasonably assume that there are not many, if any at all, complaints concerning their treatment of their clients and obligations.

So, the only method left to evaluate them is their bond ratings. This allows you to "measure" their financial stability. 

From their website: 

Ownership
Nordic Health Care is the health insurance brand of Europæiske Rejseforsikring A/S.
Europæiske was founded in 1921 and thus the first provider of travel insurance in Denmark, and the company is still the market leader within the Danish travel insurance market. 
Europæiske is a subsidiary 100% owned by the German insurance company ERV AG (Fitch rating A+), which again is owned 100% by the world´s largest reinsurance company Munich Re (Standard & Poor´s rating AA-). 

Bond Ratings: 
S&P AA - rating: High grade. Very strong capacity to meet financial commitments.
Fitch A+ rating: Upper Medium grade.


So, in your shoes; 
From the above - I would evaluate Nordic Health Care as being owned and backed by companies with a financially strong foundation and I would be partially, if not totally, satisfied that I did do a considerable amount of "due diligence". I would consider them to be a strong candidate for my business.

Although I would look at the contract with a "fine tooth comb" before signing.

Good luck.


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## cooked

Nordic is now being sold to another company so any conclusions reached up to now about them are null and void. This applies to any insurance company, you don't need treatment now, you are 60 and in good health, but what happens in 20 years from now? I used to recommend Nordic to people that could afford it, I would never do that now, I would never recommend any insurance company that is willing to take you on after 60 years of age.


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## stednick

*due diligence*



cooked said:


> Nordic is now being sold to another company so any conclusions reached up to now about them are null and void. This applies to any insurance company, you don't need treatment now, you are 60 and in good health, but what happens in 20 years from now? I used to recommend Nordic to people that could afford it, I would never do that now, I would never recommend any insurance company that is willing to take you on after 60 years of age.


The point Mr. Cooke makes about "conclusions reached" is valid. Once a sale occurs, future contracts can be expected to change, possibly slightly, more than likely significantly. 

One thing to keep in mind is a health insurance policy is a legal contract. The contract must be supported throughout it's term. Once the term is completed, the contract's text body, the rights, limitations, responsibilities and exemptions can be changed. But only with written notification. 

To be financially responsible to yourself and your family, you are required to read, and understand, the "fine-print" (sometimes referred to as the "never-read print") of the contract. If you cannot understand what you are signing, only the grace of God will prevent you from being taken advantage of.


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## cooked

OK. So see what it's like not having your bills paid, hiring a lawyer to take up your case in a far off land, in the meanwhile having a hospital not willing to take you in again as you don't seem to have insurance. 
After a certain age, it seems that taking health insurance is not a good idea, a company that has a good reputation today may be very different in 20 years when you really need it and have paid a lot of money in.


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## Cer

cooked said:


> OK. So see what it's like not having your bills paid, hiring a lawyer to take up your case in a far off land, in the meanwhile having a hospital not willing to take you in again as you don't seem to have insurance.
> After a certain age, it seems that taking health insurance is not a good idea, a company that has a good reputation today may be very different in 20 years when you really need it and have paid a lot of money in.


I see your point , however I take my chance being insured.
What about my car insurance-house insurance- liability insurance ?
It is all a personal choice and so is the health insurance.
April mobilite as also the Dutch health insurances, are not allowed to manipulate their tariffs in any other way than in accordance with government regulations.
Also it is not allowed to change conditions (accepted at insurance start) later ,depending on age or illnesses.

At the end, you will have to make your own risk analyses (also taking into consideration your life style) and in my case I decided to insure.


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## TrevorJames

*Health Care*

I was born in England, but lived almost all my adult life outside of the UK, and I am classed as a non-resident. I have contributed to the pension scheme and I now draw one. As I am retired the thought of returning there is not an a option and Thailand seems most appealing

However the UK for all its many faults, does have 'free' universal health care, even though the system can creak at times. My latest quote for private health insurance was a staggering gbp 381 per month!

How do you get the best of both worlds, by retiring to Thailand and yet still being part of the NHS system? There are so many British expatriates who are not shelling out a small fortune for health insurance. So how is it done?

I would guess that if you have lived all your life in the UK it would be easier to retains health rights, but in my case not having lived there for so many years creates a problem in re-joining 'the system'

Many thanks in advance to any replies

Take care

TrevorJames


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## joseph44

I do not know enough about the UK health system to compare this option, but Thailand offers several options from Thai Insurance companies up to foreign insurance companies. 
Depending on age and coverage, a health-insurance can cost you from THB 30,000 up to THB 120,000 per year. 

GBP 381 per month is not only staggering, it's a complete rip-off!!

Personally I do have good experiences with April Mobilite. A French company with good references in the Thai expat-community. 
At this moment, I pay USD 1800 per year (in-patient only); I'm 51,male with no health-history-issues. 
Check out their website and ask for a quote. APRIL International: Expatriate health insurance and foreign travel insurance

Of course there are more options:
International health insurance plans | Bupa International
Insurance Companies in Thailand. Health, Life, Car, General Insurance. (a list of options)

Please beware of Thai insurance companies..........they promise a lot, but when it comes to paying claimes...........!


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## TrevorJames

*Health Care-Joseph*

Thank you Joseph for the information. I am replying this way as a must make four posts before I can reply to another site

I am 68 years old and that makes any medical insurance VERY expensive, hence my desire for the UK state run one

I got two quotes from the French company (at different insurance levels), the first was euro 10, 000 per month and the second euros 6, 000 per month. So the gbp 381 looks to be in line with them

Still a BIG problem

Regards

Trevor Ingram


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## TrevorJames

*Health Care-Joseph*

Stednick

Thank you for the information and links that you gave. I am replying in this convoluted fashion as I cannot reply direct until I have made four posts (this is number three)

Sadly i am no further on, as all the 'information' given discusses the relative merits of private health insurance, at usually some exorbitant premium

I am aware of this cost, but do not want to pay this amount of money. Hence my question as to how one can continue with UK NHS cover while living in Thailand

So far NO ONE has given me that answer. Is there an answer.? I do not believe that all the British OAP retirees are paying about a small fortune in private health cover. Someone out there must be covered by the NHS. How do they do it, is my question


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## stednick

TrevorJames said:


> Stednick
> 
> Thank you for the information and links that you gave. I am replying in this convoluted fashion as I cannot reply direct until I have made four posts (this is number three)
> 
> Sadly i am no further on, as all the 'information' given discusses the relative merits of private health insurance, at usually some exorbitant premium
> 
> I am aware of this cost, but do not want to pay this amount of money. Hence my question as to how one can continue with UK NHS cover while living in Thailand
> 
> So far NO ONE has given me that answer. Is there an answer.? I do not believe that all the British OAP retirees are paying about a small fortune in private health cover. Someone out there must be covered by the NHS. How do they do it, is my question



Trevor:

In your shoes I would be posing my questions and petitioning for help with one or more of the members of parliament. www.parliament.uk Home page - UK Parliament

After all, it is their job to serve the public. You have much to gain and nothing to lose by asking.

Post a formal letter detailing the facts, UK citizen, pentioner, etc. and requesting their help. 

Good luck.


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## TrevorJames

*Health Care-Joseph*

Thanks to stednick and steiner for their replies. This is my 4th post, so next time I can just reply direct

Steiner, you give a 'solution' which in fact is the problem. One is not eligible for NHS benefits/care if you or NOT RESIDENT in the UK. If you live permanently in Thailand, then by definition you are NOT a UK resident. So my question remains, how in this situation of living permanently in Thailand can you qualify for NHS cover?

Your idea of going back in the case of an emergency is great in theory, but how is it achieved in practice?

Stednick, thank you for your suggestion of contacting my MP, even if I knew who it was, but that avenue could takes years and years, with no guaranteed result. I need health cover, now


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## mikecwm

TrevorJames said:


> Thanks to stednick and steiner for their replies. This is my 4th post, so next time I can just reply direct
> 
> Steiner, you give a 'solution' which in fact is the problem. One is not eligible for NHS benefits/care if you or NOT RESIDENT in the UK. If you live permanently in Thailand, then by definition you are NOT a UK resident. So my question remains, how in this situation of living permanently in Thailand can you qualify for NHS cover?
> 
> Your idea of going back in the case of an emergency is great in theory, but how is it achieved in practice?
> 
> Stednick, thank you for your suggestion of contacting my MP, even if I knew who it was, but that avenue could takes years and years, with no guaranteed result. I need health cover, now


In a nutshell-you will not be able to use the Brit health system.
You don't live there, you have not paid taxes there, they do not want to know about you.
If you have serious health concerns you will need to move back to the UK on a permanent basis.
If you apply for health insurance in Thailand, and you have an existing condition it is unlikely that any insurer will take you on.
I would suggest using Thai government hospital and paying their bill.
Old age is not for the weak or desperate.


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## cooked

Try going to Thai Health Insurance...Intensive Care

I finally decided to go with the cheapest variant of this, for emergencies, plus self insurance plus having the fortunate right to go back home to Switzerland if things get bad and I can still travel. 
If you do decide for this (apparently reliable) insurance, don't apply over the internet but go to your local rep. He will be there to visit you quick and you will make the acquaintance of someone that you can contact when in difficulties.


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## Song_Si

^ I had been with Southern Cross in NZ continuously since 1989. When I first moved here I took out six months cover, as was unsure whether Thailand was 'for me'. Would have been the ideal customer with just one minor hospital claim in that time, still waiting for 'the big one' paying all those premiums.

I decided to stay longer, when I went to renew my medical policy they declined on basis it could only be renewed from within NZ. They were not negotiable on this, and lost a 20 year customer as a result.

_________

Recently I've had experiences with the Thailand public health system. Cycling accident, landed on my head; and taken to a small community hospital. 

I'd give 10/10 for my treatment; didn't even get to sit down, as I was dripping blood everywhere, straight into their little 'emergency room' for clean-up, bandaging, and worst of all, a lot of stitches as I split my jaw/throat area to the bone (blood! and lots of it). Back every day for them to check on progress, new dressings, and have had stitches removed. 

Costs - had to pay cash at each visit and have a collection of receipts for my insurer. 
First visit - x-rays, wound cleaning, bandaging, two sets of stitches, medicines for pain, infection etc - total 970 baht
Daily visits for new dressings 170 baht each day

Doctor (and me too) pleased with her sewing work and eventually there'll be minimal scarring.

As a side note - what a way to diet! - two weeks eating through a straw, _jok_ rice soup and plain yoghurt.

Back to insurance - next step for me, when my mouth/jaw can open properly, is dental work for 4 damaged teeth; something not covered by my insurance except for a nominal 5000 baht refund which will not go far at all.


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## cooked

Song_Si said:


> ^ I had been with Southern Cross in NZ continuously since 1989. When I first moved here I took out six months cover, as was unsure whether Thailand was 'for me'. Would have been the ideal customer with just one minor hospital claim in that time, still waiting for 'the big one' paying all those premiums.
> 
> I decided to stay longer, when I went to renew my medical policy they declined on basis it could only be renewed from within NZ. They were not negotiable on this, and lost a 20 year customer as a result.
> 
> _________
> 
> Recently I've had experiences with the Thailand public health system. Cycling accident, landed on my head; and taken to a small community hospital.
> 
> I'd give 10/10 for my treatment; didn't even get to sit down, as I was dripping blood everywhere, straight into their little 'emergency room' for clean-up, bandaging, and worst of all, a lot of stitches as I split my jaw/throat area to the bone (blood! and lots of it). Back every day for them to check on progress, new dressings, and have had stitches removed.
> 
> Costs - had to pay cash at each visit and have a collection of receipts for my insurer.
> First visit - x-rays, wound cleaning, bandaging, two sets of stitches, medicines for pain, infection etc - total 970 baht
> Daily visits for new dressings 170 baht each day
> 
> Doctor (and me too) pleased with her sewing work and eventually there'll be minimal scarring.
> 
> As a side note - what a way to diet! - two weeks eating through a straw, _jok_ rice soup and plain yoghurt.
> 
> Back to insurance - next step for me, when my mouth/jaw can open properly, is dental work for 4 damaged teeth; something not covered by my insurance except for a nominal 5000 baht refund which will not go far at all.


I hope you can still drink your beer. Unless you have actually been through the process, you have no way of knowing if your local hospital is any good. People around here say you go to the local hospital if you want to die. There is a private clinic, excellent and not extortionate apart from medicaments.


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## Newforestcat

As a Thai, I won't trust just trust any provincial hospitals, although I accept that some of them are possibly good. The main one in my hometown is terrible and run by mostly inexperienced doctors and overworked and rude nurses. Provincial medics tend to work in private clinics most morning, lunch and evening.

A bit of info that may be useful:

In every big city, there is a big uni with its own university hospital. This kind of hospitals are usually run by reliable doctors and nurses with proper facilities and equipments. These hospitals accept and need donations. Depending on their policies, being a regular donator, you can get discounts or 'free' treatments. The university hospital an hour away from where I currently live in Thailand is very good and has a clear policy on incentives from regular and big donations. 

The other option that someone can look into is to work or be employed (even by your spouse in his/her shop) and make Social Security contributions. I have not yet explored this option as my husband and I have not moved back to Thailand full-time yet.


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## Noho

Newforestcat said:


> The other option that someone can look into is to work or be employed (even by your spouse in his/her shop) and make Social Security contributions. I have not yet explored this option as my husband and I have not moved back to Thailand full-time yet.


I have done this research and its true

If you have a work permit then your employer pays your social security contributions to the government and you qualify for a government health plan

Once a year you get to choose a government hospital of your choice 

It's like an HMO back in the USA 

As for quality, private doctored are require to work in government hospitals X amount of days per month

Anyways, here is a link that will help you understand 

Comments on this link are made by employers, business owners, attorneys and business people 

If You Are Working Here On A Wp Something You Should Know - The Office - Legal and Visa Issues Relating To Thailand - The Pattaya Club

Ah, great the mods let me post the link

I am not sure 100% if this applies to being an English teacher

I have gotten mix response on this topic of teaching but I would assume that it does because you will be in the system

Hope this helps everyone

Btw, I will be moving within the next couple of months to Thailand


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## wiltshireyeoman

Hi, if you are working under a work permit of a company then you will have some basic health cover, if you work under your own business work permit you can have the health cover but there are regulations and this will reflect on your position in the company and earning as in most cases it is wise to purchase additional annual cover, especially if you want major cover to repatriate you to your home country or need major surgery and long term care
i have lived in Thailand 7 years and must say the medical service in international hospitals is very good, but as others have said it can be a bit hit and miss with the local facilities so make an effort to find the best of the bunch for both cases,


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## TomTao

stednick said:


> To the Thailand expat retirees:
> 
> I will be joining you in a few short years. As a prior resident with a Thai wife and a frequent visitor I am fairly well informed concerning Thailand. The one large gap in my knowledge is concerning health insurance. I, and my wife, are both medically sound with no known medical concerns. However, medical emergencies do occur and health insurance is a requirement both for an unanticipated emergency and for the peace-of-mind provided.
> 
> My question(s) to the expat retirees are: What health insurance policy's are available?, What policy do you carry and at what cost?, and, if and when you use the policy do you consider it "fair and reasonable"?
> 
> I thank you in advance for your response. Tom


Hi Tom, I have health insurance with a Thai company, Thai Life Insurance or Thai Pragan Chi Wit, in the three years I have been insured with them I have been admitted to hospital twice, once with a back injury and the other time with dengue fever, and as a company providing health cover in Thailand I cannot fault them, they have paid out a lot more than I have paid them so far. 
Tom


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## stednick

TomTao said:


> Hi Tom, I have health insurance with a Thai company, Thai Life Insurance or Thai Pragan Chi Wit, in the three years I have been insured with them I have been admitted to hospital twice, once with a back injury and the other time with dengue fever, and as a company providing health cover in Thailand I cannot fault them, they have paid out a lot more than I have paid them so far.
> Tom


Tom:

Thanks, very useful information. Based on personal experience, tested and qualified, can't ask for more. I have to check it out. 

A buddy of mine provides that his wife states that when they retire all he will have to do is register with the local hospital paying them on the order of USD1k (THB 32k) at todays exchange rate. This provides a "local" medical insurance, however, unless you intend to stay local you still need a medical insurance plan. 

Thanks for your reply.


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## TomTao

stednick said:


> Tom:
> 
> Thanks, very useful information. Based on personal experience, tested and qualified, can't ask for more. I have to check it out.
> 
> A buddy of mine provides that his wife states that when they retire all he will have to do is register with the local hospital paying them on the order of USD1k (THB 32k) at todays exchange rate. This provides a "local" medical insurance, however, unless you intend to stay local you still need a medical insurance plan.
> 
> Thanks for your reply.


No problem, the insurance policy I have is called Endowment 20/20 I think, costs a bit over $1,000 per year at the current exchange rate, and like many good insurance policies the costs increases as you age.


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## TBMoney

I was looking for medical quotes - I got my life cover through <snip> and asked for a medical quote, they are coming back to me in 24 hours but I was curious what is considered a reasonable price? 

I asked for fully comp cover - I think they are coming back in USD


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## dhream

In Singapore 2012 I went through a broker to a large British concern that, if you are British, you will think of the name immediately, as they are, and have been massive for decades. 

They were outrageously expensive, and I cancelled after six months, and did recover some money back.

One lurk I am looking at is to get annual travel insurance at my 'registered' home address (in Australia) in lieu of the 'traditional' route.

I'm figuring that if I alter my lifestyle to semi-nomadic, and actually do move every six months even if it is just, from say, north to south in a particular country, then I am 'travelling'.

This is not as scammy as it sounds, if one is not 'settled' in the commonly accepted sense of that word, out of ones own country, and paying the premiums for travel insurance after all, then what is the problem? 

I was just chatting to a mate over the weekend, he says the insurance industry is nothing but a legalised protection racket, and in some cases, you'll get better 'service' from the Mob!

Couldn't agree more...


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## dhream

The Mob says: "Pay up and we won't break your arms"

The Insurance company says: "Oh the Mob broke your arms? Sorry, but under clause 28475757583 (b) (iii) revised five minutes ago... we're not paying you what you've already paid for!"


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## dhream

I went and did a quick browse of long term travel insurance sites versus resident expat medical insurance sites I deduced my 'lurk' would not actually be very practical, having read the small print (as ever its in the small print!) and if it was, the savings would be negligible set against taking the risk of failing to meet the requirements of the breakers, sorry, brokers terms and conditions, back to my EU winter hibernating then...


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