# Don't get too excited



## MaidenScotland

Although Mubarak has gone things are not 100% certain.
The people are asking for the emergency law to be lifted and as yet it hasn't been.
The new government has said it will lower staple food prices.


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## txlstewart

MaidenScotland said:


> Although Mubarak has gone things are not 100% certain.
> The people are asking for the emergency law to be lifted and as yet it hasn't been.
> The new government has said it will lower staple food prices.


I totally agree. Just because Mubarak has stepped down does not mean that someone has waived their fairy wand over the country, making everything good happen immediately. I plan to be optimistic, but cautious.


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## MaidenScotland

n Alexandria, a few hundreds of workers at Bank of Alexandria are holding a protest, demanding details be released about the banks sale by the state to the private sector. Also, several hundred workers from the building company The Arab Contractors, used for almost all major construction projects by the state, are protesting in downtown Alexandria demanding better pay.


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## MaidenScotland

Robert Fisk: Cairo's 50,000 street children were abused by this regime - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent


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## madgiz




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## MaidenScotland

correspondent Rawya Rageh reports that hundreds of Egypt's police have been protesting outside the country's Interior Ministry. They are demanding better wages, healthcare, and they want to clear their name often associated with brutality against pro-democracy protesters.


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## Horus

Well I don't know what happened at Metro this morning in Sharm I went to get some icecream and cakes they would not let me in the store even though I tried to bribe them with 10LE the workers went on strike for a short time and sat on the lawn peacefully some raised voices, someone said to me we have learned now that if we want change we sit in the streets.


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## MaidenScotland

Horus said:


> Well I don't know what happened at Metro this morning in Sharm I went to get some icecream and cakes they would not let me in the store even though I tried to bribe them with 10LE the workers went on strike for a short time and sat on the lawn peacefully some raised voices, someone said to me we have learned now that if we want change we sit in the streets.





I don't blame them... at long last they have a voice and are not afraid to use it.
Egypt is not a poor country but the majority of it's citizens are and they deserve more than they have.


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## MensEtManus

I had a strike at my factory (private factory, where our wages are DOUBLE the industry average!).... we had to let them all go. The factory has stopped production since Jan 27. Today was the first day of production and after the strike at noon, we closed again until we hire new workers... 

The problem is not the strike, the problem is "increase wages, or we break the machines...." how on earth is one suppose to work when you have a paid enemy staring at you daily?

Things are completely out of control.


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## MaidenScotland

Yes I understand your feelings, the trouble is Egyptians who have for so long had shackles on them now want to show their strength, trouble is they don't take into consideration when they do have a good employer. it doesn't really matter how much you give it will never be enough to them. I hear my staff talking about my big salary (their words) but they forget that I am on call 24/7.. I don't go home to my family every night and as a women I am under other constraints living in Egypt
I hope your plant is safe and you get workers who appreciate the salary you offer.

maiden


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## Eco-Mariner

Public sector workers were promised an immediate 15% increase by the caretaker authority. But that wouldn't stop them taking bribes and demanding money from business and ordinary folk who just want to work. That's been their way of life.

These corrupt practices will take years to isolate and remove.
The first thing any new leader should do is :- Not to promise something they can't deliver.

Alan.


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## MaidenScotland

Egypt's ruling military council has announced that work on reforming the country's constitution is to be completed in 10 days.

A committee led by a retired judge has been tasked with proposing legal changes, said the council.

It earlier suspended the current constitution, which was amended during ousted President Hosni Mubarak's tenure to strengthen his grip on power.

Mr Mubarak stepped down last week after more than two weeks of protests.

The higher military council - which assumed power after Mr Mubarak stepped down - said on Tuesday that the amended constitution would be put to a popular referendum.

The eight-member committee is mostly made up of experts in constitutional law but it includes a senior figure from the opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood.

It is headed by Tariq el-Bishri, considered one of Egypt's top legal minds, and on Tuesday held its opening meeting with Defence Minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi.

The committee is instructed to "amend all articles as it sees fit to guarantee democracy and the integrity of presidential and parliamentary elections".

Strikes ease
The BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo says it looks as if the military council is fulfilling its pledge to hand the country back to civilian rule as quickly as possible.


Tahrir Square, the focus of protests in Cairo, has largely returned to normal
The speed of the move will reassure the opposition, he says, although there might be some nervousness about whether it is an attempt to push through changes in too much of a rush.

The military council has also repeated its calls for an end to strikes that spread across the country during Sunday and Monday.

The stoppages are dealing a further blow to Egypt's ailing economy, damaged by three weeks of unrest.

"The supreme council is aware of the economic and social circumstances society is undergoing, but these issues cannot be resolved before the strikes and sit-ins end," the state news agency Mena quoted the military as saying.

"The result of that will be disastrous," it added.

Strikes eased on Tuesday, mainly because offices and businesses were closed for an Islamic holiday.

But correspondents said some smaller protests continued in provinces outside Cairo, mainly called by workers demanding higher pay.

Meanwhile, Mr Mubarak, 82, is reported to be in poor health in his residence in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.

The Saudi-owned daily newspaper Asharq al-Awsat said on Tuesday that the former president's health was "declining drastically" and he was refusing to travel abroad for treatment. The paper quoted a former security official linked to the military high command.

In his final speeches to the nation, Mr Mubarak said that he would die in Egypt. He has not been seen in public since stepping down.

On Tuesday, the Egyptian ambassador to the US told American TV network NBC that Mr Mubarak was in poor health.


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## Eco-Mariner

With all his wealth, he could bring in the whole UK National Health Service to treat his illness.


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## MensEtManus

Today, after we let everyone go yesterday, they surrounded the factory and wouldn't allow any traffic. So now you have hostile takeover by workers. How can one negotiate with terrorists? 

So now, one no longer works in a safe environment. I need thugs to protect my factory from paid terrorists - I feel we are in Nigeria.

I fail to understand why those folks do not understand that everyone is free to go find a job at another factory. If you do not like the pay, you can go to another company, but blackmailing the owner is pointless.


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## canuck2010

Perhaps the factory workers need more incentives than simply their salary.


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## Eco-Mariner

I taught my workers various skills in construction. Even supplied personal tools.

On a visit back to their villages they started up their own businesses with the tools but had no clue how to run one. Now they want to take over mine thinking they are engineers....

It's amazing how "Egypt Time" works. Locals must think the revolution will make them rich overnight, yet when asked to do something it takes months, if not years. 

Alan.


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## kevinthegulf

Sadly i think that 90% of the population here have totally unrealistic expectations of how life will improve.

My own job does not involve productivity as such so i cannot quantify things here, however when I first arrived i was talking to an American chap who works in the defence industry in a factory and he said "if we get three hours production in a day- weve had a good day"

People expect something for nothing- you are paid a [email protected] wage because your productivity is [email protected] Until that sinks in, they will get nowhere.


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## Eco-Mariner

In my experience, in Egypt a job is never completed or finished off properly because they expect to keep coming back the next day and get paid twice for it.


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## bat

Eco-Mariner said:


> In my experience, in Egypt a job is never completed or finished off properly because they expect to keep coming back the next day and get paid twice for it.


i work in a company of 150,
they get holidays ,health insurance,8 hour day and decent wage, but in reality we only need half that amount.
they invariable turn up late,take days off for any reason,lie about the job they have not done,and have at least 10 cups of tea a day which means complete stoppage of work.
this kind of culture will not turn around over night.
like most companies in egypt,we have not worked for 3 weeks,but still paid our bills, workers etc,and gave our yearly increase,but they still dont seem to realize that to keep going we need them to do a decent job.


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## MaidenScotland

canuck2010 said:


> Perhaps the factory workers need more incentives than simply their salary.




I don't know why people think that employees here get a basic salary and nothing else. I am sure I have told this story before but will repeat anyway.

Lets set the scene.

A foreign company working here out in the desert and they supply buses to take the labour out to the location.
One man is sick so sick he can't even take breakfast when they arrive at the start of the days labour but his friends cover his work load for him and tell the site manager with tears in their eyes if he doesn't come to work his family will starve, his sons wont be able to get married, his aunts cat will die and so on, the site manager is not happy about it but turns a blind eye. One morning just after the working day begins the site manager walks over to the shaded area were the sick man lays to see how he is and finds the man dead not just died dead but obviously hours dead. It seems if you die at work you are entitled to certain benefits and as the man had died it home they decided to bring him into work as normal then after a few hours someone was to suddenly discover he had died on the job so to speak.

The Marriot hotel has a policy if a member of staff dies then each and every member of staff has a percentage of their salary taken to give to the deceased families you have no choice in the matter it is just taken.



I am sure there are places that do not treat their staff properly as in benefits but then again there are lots that do.

Nothing is going to change overnight it will take years the problem being that Egyptians have had a state that wouldn't let them think for themselves or have the right to make decisions for their country, power corrupted Mubarak now lets hope that the power to be able to strike etc doesn't corrupt the Egyptian nation into striking at each and every chance they get.


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't know why people think that employees here get a basic salary and nothing else. I am sure I have told this story before but will repeat anyway.
> 
> Lets set the scene.
> 
> A foreign company working here out in the desert and they supply buses to take the labour out to the location.
> One man is sick so sick he can't even take breakfast when they arrive at the start of the days labour but his friends cover his work load for him and tell the site manager with tears in their eyes if he doesn't come to work his family will starve, his sons wont be able to get married, his aunts cat will die and so on, the site manager is not happy about it but turns a blind eye. One morning just after the working day begins the site manager walks over to the shaded area were the sick man lays to see how he is and finds the man dead not just died dead but obviously hours dead. It seems if you die at work you are entitled to certain benefits and as the man had died it home they decided to bring him into work as normal then after a few hours someone was to suddenly discover he had died on the job so to speak.
> 
> The Marriot hotel has a policy if a member of staff dies then each and every member of staff has a percentage of their salary taken to give to the deceased families you have no choice in the matter it is just taken.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure there are places that do not treat their staff properly as in benefits but then again there are lots that do.
> 
> Nothing is going to change overnight it will take years the problem being that Egyptians have had a state that wouldn't let them think for themselves or have the right to make decisions for their country, power corrupted Mubarak now lets hope that the power to be able to strike etc doesn't corrupt the Egyptian nation into striking at each and every chance they get.


the problem with strikes here,in the west the strike culture has evolved, but here to strike for better wages is to simple.im sure many companys would give better wages but at what cost to the work force,would there productivity increase.companys here cannot compete in the world market,goods substandard, and to costly.
as for bringing foreign worker, indians ,phillapinos etc there working conditons terrible and very long working days.


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## Sonrisa

I wish they could do a japanese style strike. Now that would be something


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## MaidenScotland

bat said:


> the problem with strikes here,in the west the strike culture has evolved, but here to strike for better wages is to simple.im sure many companys would give better wages but at what cost to the work force,would there productivity increase.companys here cannot compete in the world market,goods substandard, and to costly.
> as for bringing foreign worker, indians ,phillapinos etc there working conditons terrible and very long working days.





It actually very difficult for Egyptians to bring in foreign labour and I think you will find the majority of the ones you have seen are probably runaways from Arabs who brought them in and they are now working illegally. Filipinos here get a much higher rate for their labours than a local manual workforce.


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> It actually very difficult for Egyptians to bring in foreign labour and I think you will find the majority of the ones you have seen are probably runaways from Arabs who brought them in and they are now working illegally. Filipinos here get a much higher rate for their labours than a local manual workforce.


no not those but the factories who bring them in by the planeload and they have 2 yr contracts then they fly them out when its done to bring in more.
they live in the factory,mainly men.this is all done by bribes etc im sure.


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## MaidenScotland

bat said:


> no not those but the factories who bring them in by the planeload and they have 2 yr contracts then they fly them out when its done to bring in more.
> they live in the factory,mainly men.this is all done by bribes etc im sure.




I didn't realise that was done here, then yet is must have been done with bribery because it is against the law to bring in foreign workforce if you can find local labour, management status etc excluded. I am not sure if it is still the law but Men will be able to tell us I am sure, for every foreigner you employ you have to employ 9 Egyptians, this always tickled me as to me it says that a foreigner does the work of 9 people


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## MaidenScotland

Ahhh I have just remembered a couple of months ago when people were asking for a decent basic wage one of the ministers said... We can bring in Bangladeshis who will work for less than an Egyptian


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> I didn't realise that was done here, then yet is must have been done with bribery because it is against the law to bring in foreign workforce if you can find local labour, management status etc excluded. I am not sure if it is still the law but Men will be able to tell us I am sure, for every foreigner you employ you have to employ 9 Egyptians, this always tickled me as to me it says that a foreigner does the work of 9 people


well i presume they must be all managers then.
i know of some who work in a diamond factory.wonder were that is,and others in garment factories,know which one id rather work in.


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## MaidenScotland

And before I go and do a decent days work myself
I wonder what will happen when the local workforce earn a decent basic wage will they still expect.
all their meals provided 
medicine provided
doctors paid for
donations towards weddings.
I have live in staff and provide all of the above plus all toiletries and even haircuts.

Maiden


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> And before I go and do a decent days work myself
> I wonder what will happen when the local workforce earn a decent basic wage will they still expect.
> all their meals provided
> medicine provided
> doctors paid for
> donations towards weddings.
> I have live in staff and provide all of the above plus all toiletries and even haircuts.
> 
> Maiden


yes well theres the problem,
many see there boss as a extension of the family to provide for them out side of work.
this mentality will take a lot of shifting not in my lifetime i suspect.


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## Eco-Mariner

Sad stories, but true.

Egypt is not a welfare state. 

It has no support mechanism for its older generation in health, or post-education for its youth. The regime took from the system but didn't give. They were expecting families to support themselves which created greed and averice amongst its elite, surpressing the masses by keeping them ignorant and in fear.

It's all about to change. 
Providing those who milked the old system allow themselves time to be absorbed within a new democratic system, it could be the platform needed in creating a more welfare state.


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## txlstewart

Well said, Maiden!


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> And before I go and do a decent days work myself
> I wonder what will happen when the local workforce earn a decent basic wage will they still expect.
> all their meals provided
> medicine provided
> doctors paid for
> donations towards weddings.
> I have live in staff and provide all of the above plus all toiletries and even haircuts.
> 
> Maiden


With those good extras as part of the package ......can i come and work for you....i promise i don't have any sick mother,father.aunts,uncles or cousins that will require an operation in the near future.


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## MaidenScotland

BBC News - Egypt: The camp that toppled a president


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## Eco-Mariner

*Now that's what being organised can achieve*



MaidenScotland said:


> BBC News - Egypt: The camp that toppled a president


It struck me when I actually watched this on Al Jazeera that the other countries now trying the same thing will be less successful as Egypt.
Because the volumes of people may not be as organised.

Well done the Youth Movements and all your supporters. Make it work in the longer term, for you will be deceived at every stretch of the way. You must keep on top of the each dialogue and presentation.

Alan.


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