# Paranoia



## Guest (Jan 7, 2010)

It always amazes me when I read some of the questions and answers on SA (mostly about crime)

I've just gone back on holiday after 26 yrs and it's a great place. Most people substitute the reality, by filling it in with fantasy (usually someone else's fantasy). You cannot make an assessment on the place until you go there and get its feel. That way the (make-up) movie in your head will roll at a reality level,,,,period.
We came home at all hours and with very little fear, so go and live your life without restrictions.

Be careful of some people's comments (SA whites) who have not lived with any violence during the Apartheid years, so it's all new to them. Others lived with it (blacks/mixed) on a daily basis, so their assessment will not be so paranoid.
My assessment (and don't guess my colour), is that apart from the organised crime, things are not near as bad as some of the comments you read. (Fear to go out after dark, what crap, we came in early hours nearly every day,,,,,,,in JHB)

As for Cape Town, it would be much safer than JHB which would be safer than London/Detroit etc. I live in Perth and I would say that Cape Town is safer.
The Africans (not referring to the illegal’s from north of SA) are humble people and they have always been that way despite their horror of Apartheid. How do you think your race will react after something like apartheid (probably want blood hey,,,mmmmm). It's wonderful to see the blacks in control (humility), what a difference from the Whites during apartheid (cruel,,,,arrogant). It's also good to see many whites have changed (inside and out) for the better. Most have changed on the outside, that's a good start too.

On a lighter note, Africa is vibrant and is full of energy and this is mainly because of the way black people are. Even the Whites are more vibrant than any other I have met in Australia and other mainly white countries.
It's also so, so cheap (from Real Estate to food) to your foreign currency
:clap2:


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Don't listen to the prophet of doom.
They left SA and are happy to bash the country.


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## NMcElroy (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice so far, no decision has been made as yet!


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## NMcElroy (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for that. I do appreciate there are those out there that will scaremonger so you need to take everything woith a pinch of salt.



Gonealongtime said:


> It always amazes me when I read some of the questions and answers on SA (mostly about crime)
> 
> I've just gone back on holiday after 26 yrs and it's a great place. Most people substitute the reality, by filling it in with fantasy (usually someone else's fantasy). You cannot make an assessment on the place until you go there and get its feel. That way the (make-up) movie in your head will roll at a reality level,,,,period.
> We came home at all hours and with very little fear, so go and live your life without restrictions.
> ...


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Gonealongtime,

What a load of crap... never before have I seen such a pie in the sky, one sided, rose coloured piece of drivel in my life!! Because you went out at night and nothing happened means that the rest of us are cowardly, scaremongerers hiding under our beds imaginging it all! 
I hope that when I ask questions regarding Australia I get the facts, not some moronic opinion from someone who has not been there for 26 years. The facts are the facts... if you actually bothered to check the amount of murders, rapes, child rapes/murders, armed robberies, hijackings instead of blaming apartheid for the current problems you would see there are real dangers that we face every day. Furthermore why is it we have arising problem, why is there a monitorium on reporting the crime figures and large scale fiddling of those figures? What happened pre 1994 undoubtedly has a bearing on what is happening now but it does not mean that it is not happening.

Keep your obvious bias and/or agenda to yourself... I think people want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

zambezi.king said:


> Gonealongtime,
> 
> What a load of crap... never before have I seen such a pie in the sky, one sided, rose coloured piece of drivel in my life!! Because you went out at night and nothing happened means that the rest of us are cowardly, scaremongerers hiding under our beds imaginging it all!
> I hope that when I ask questions regarding Australia I get the facts, not some moronic opinion from someone who has not been there for 26 years. The facts are the facts... if you actually bothered to check the amount of murders, rapes, child rapes/murders, armed robberies, hijackings instead of blaming apartheid for the current problems you would see there are real dangers that we face every day. Furthermore why is it we have arising problem, why is there a monitorium on reporting the crime figures and large scale fiddling of those figures? What happened pre 1994 undoubtedly has a bearing on what is happening now but it does not mean that it is not happening.
> ...


It could be argued that you are just as biased but with the opposite view point? However im not arguing crime isnt a problem in South Africa, just maybe not to the point that you portray.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

So Gonealongtime goes on Holiday and is immediately an expert.
wow!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

NMcElroy said:


> Thanks for that. I do appreciate there are those out there that will scaremonger so you need to take everything woith a pinch of salt.


Take this with a pinch of salt then 

I met a South African from Pretoria at a party at Christmas. She has family in SA, and left there 20 years ago through fear

One of her close family was shot, one of her best friends was shot twice. She took her children back there a while back and they witnessed two shootings

Their family live behind expensive defences, they dont stop when they are out in the car, they live under battle conditions

She's not going back to live ... ever


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## MrFrankenstein (Mar 6, 2009)

I should point out that there has been and is research available, demonstrating that huge quantities of SA's people - and especially its children - are suffering from post traumatic stress disorders, due to the savage level of the violent crime people are trying to 'live with.'

The concept of 'paranoia' is only valid when there's nothing to be frightened of. 

Unfortunately, in SA, the degree of torture, rape and sadism accompanying much of the 'criminal violence' means the only normal mode of behavior for SA people to keep going, is what elsewhere in the world would be called paranoia. 

There is a serious degree of mental damage being caused to the people of SA, by having to live amidst such violence while pretending that its 'fine.' Or worse, living with the constant delusion that 'okay maybe its not fine but things will get better.' 

Living in an illusion, and hoping for some future utopia while murders, torture, rapes and brutality can erupt around you and those you care about, at any time, is not a decent life. 

That said, nowhere else in the world can replace what SA and Africa _is_ or _means_ - but just about anywhere else in the world (apart from perhaps Iraq and Columbia) is safer and provides a better quality of life. 

Its not a great option. Stay where your heart is and die. Or leave and enjoy real peace and forever have a hole in the heart. 

That's the truth of it, in a nutshell.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Don't listen to the prophet of doom.
> They left SA and are happy to bash the country.


This is why most SA expats leave:

Crime Statistics | Per Category


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> I met a South African from Pretoria at a party at Christmas. She has family in SA, and left there 20 years ago through fear
> r


20 years ago? That would be before apartheid ended so what fear did she have that made her leave?


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

mman said:


> It could be argued that you are just as biased but with the opposite view point? However im not arguing crime isnt a problem in South Africa, just maybe not to the point that you portray.


Yes it could be argued, but only by those that can't (or won't) look at the FACTS, or by those who are not living IN the situation or by those that have some sort of bias/aganda. There are too many people with ostrich syndrome that either bury thier heads or the facts in the sand and use thier emotions to make their choices. 

I have been in conservation and worked in the great outdoors of Africa for near on 20 years, most of my family and friends are still here, most of my life has been spent on this continent... it's in my blood and it is who I am. So why would I trash the image of the place and want to leave it all behind. Why would I want to start a new life and career, uproot my family, leave friends and relatives etc if there was no problem and what reason would I have for exagerating or skewing the facts.

I see many that think this place is paradise and advocate people coming here do not actually live here. They have either left or never came from here in the first place. I'll stick to the facts and my OWN personal experiences to determine the advice and opinions I give to those that want it.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

MMan end of the 80's and beginning of the90's there was a helluva lot of blood being shed, mostly between the various struggle groups , google hostels IFP ANC


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Daxk said:


> MMan end of the 80's and beginning of the90's there was a helluva lot of blood being shed, mostly between the various struggle groups , google hostels IFP ANC


Yes which is completly different to the crime taking place today.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, but there was still a lot of fear about,especially that it would spread to the suburbs.
That fueled a lot of emigration amongst whites that I knew about.
you also need to remember that the main two factions within the ANC were also competeing,in fact the one faction, Vula, (of which JZ was a leader) was still establishing Arms caches and vowed to continue the struggle even when the Mbeki Group were at the negotiating table in 93.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mman said:


> 20 years ago? That would be before apartheid ended so what fear did she have that made her leave?


Didnt get into that unfortunately .... but it's the fear that keeps her away now that may be more relevant I suppose

I mean, I have no axe to grind either way. Never been to South Africa. I've seen whats written on the forums in various places and now spoken to a native. What I really find hard to understand is that everything points to the fact that there is a serious crime problem there which can't (as is often done) be compared to other leading countries. Stats have been quoted, personal experiences etc etc .... but why do people still come on and deny it exists, and that everything is sweetness and light?


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## Joelp33 (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi All,

I think that SA is great, but like anywhere you need to take a balanced view and use your common sense.

I am currently looking to move to Cape Town to set up a business with my cousin (who is a Durbanite) later on this year. A massive move for me and my other half, as SA is not just around the corner ! We are certainly looking to make an informed choice on this life decision.

I have read various posts and speaking from my experiences in both the UK and SA. My fiance was violently robbed in 2008 by four masked intruders, the area (in the UK) we lived in had a 1% crime rate for all crimes. I told my family in SA (who emigrated 35 years ago) and they were absolutely shocked, they have never been touched by any crime of this magnatude (and with the help of god never will). The perpetrators just like the other 50% went through the judicial process and got off on a technicality!

I am of Irish decent and sometimes go back to Belfast.....I have seen devastation from Sectarian violence that is often not reported in the media. I have friends who tell me of hand grenades being thrown etc and militants still operating. Yet people emigrate to Ireland as it is a beautiful country with beautiful people.

A friend of mine from Durban who was recently mugged in downtown Durban and may I add was "non pluss'd" by the situation. He was walking around at mid night on his own (silly boy!)But if you think that you could move to a place like Jo'burg or Durban and walk around at night don't bother!

For the lucky, In SA the lifestyle you can have with the opportunities for the entrepreneur, climate, scenery etc (as long as you choose a nice part to live in) far outstrips the UK. 

Good Luck


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2010)

*Good to see positive views.*

Joelp33


Good to see positive views.

Remember that whilst you hear a lot about SA violence, it's just about everywhere.
Another point that's never mentioned is that under the old Apartheid, the bulk of black crime was not reported for many reasons too long to mention here. This resulted in a false perception of SA crime stats during the old days (it was much higher, but massaged for the psychology of the few, maybe the masses too) It would not surprise me if little's changed except:

1) the new level of crime reporting (post Apartheid)
2) the spread to all suburbs, not just traditional black and mixed race areas
3) Organized crime infiltrating from north of the SA borders.

It's also worth while noting that the most serious of crimes (body harm) *mostly * occurs in the low socio-economic areas. For example Cape Town has gang warfare, but contained mostly to their suburbs. You probably have bike gangs in your city, but are you ever affected? Hardly,,,I would say.

Just be vigilant, and enjoy"




Joelp33 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I think that SA is great, but like anywhere you need to take a balanced view and use your common sense.
> 
> ...


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

"This resulted in a false perception of SA crime stats during the old days (it was much higher, but massaged for the psychology of the few, maybe the masses too) It would not surprise me if little's changed except:

1) the new level of crime reporting (post Apartheid)
2) the spread to all suburbs, not just traditional black and mixed race areas
3) Organized crime infiltrating from north of the SA borders."
Gonealongtime does not realise that the past transgressions of the SA Govt mean absolutely nothing when you or your children are in danger.
Its frequently posted on here that going to SA is not a guarantee that you will experience violent crime, just that if you do,it tends to be greater than the violent crime reported elsewhere in the World.
I dont care anymore wether people go to SA or not, in fact I prefer it, they will eithe contribute to its prosperity which in turn will improve the lot of my fmily wh cannot leave, or they will experience violent crime , and being Foreigners, will be reported in overseas Press ,usually on the front page, which then puts pressure on the current SA Govt to actually do something concrete about the failed Judicial and law enforcement in SA (faint Hope,but hope nonetheless)


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*HUMBLE African - South AFricans*



Gonealongtime said:


> The Africans (not referring to the illegal’s from north of SA) are humble people and they have always been that way :clap2:


The AFRICANS are HUMBLE - that's a new one.

When I arrived in Cape Town last year in August for a 2 week stay with my Mom, my luggage (suitcase) was no where to be found.
I went to the Baggage Claim office and informed the young "AFRICAN" woman, of my dilemna. She glanced at me and then continued to file her nails totally ignoring me. When I said "My suitcase is missing and I need to file a claim" she gave me the evil-eye look, like I was wasting her time. Her job was to assist passengers with lost luggage, THAT WAS THE JOB THEY WERE PAYING HER TO DO,..but she was too high and mighty to assist me. I had to call Delta when I got to my Mom's place to inform them of my predicament.

If that's not bad enough, I went to Rennies in Cavendish Square to exchange some U.S dollars into S.A money. The "AFRICAN" woman was blatantly hostile and rude. I got up, walked out and then went and exchanged my dollars at the nearest Standard Bank.

On my last day in Cape Town I went to the bottle store in Plumstead next door to Shoprite. I walked in, took 2 bottles of very good quality brandy and then went to pay for it. Here again, the HUMBLE "African" just looked at me like I was dirt and then WALKED AWAY from the till and left me standing there like "the fool on the hill".
Needless to say, I walked out and bought the same items at the airport 20 minutes before my plane left "The VIBRANT Country".

WADDA-EXPERIENCE.


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## tmash (May 6, 2009)

One of the few unbiased advice i have ever read here.
(SNIP)


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

The crime rate is available for all to see if they want. Some say it is mostly black on black violence etc... if they can do that to thier own have much more violent are the attacks on the whites. Things done to people after the valuables are taken, the tortures, TORTURE, of victims. Like one of the previous posts says... please come here, it might improve life for those that cannot leave. If you are unlucky enough to be a victim it will create awareness and things might change.

Think about it carefully... if these crime figures were from your country what would you think? Would you want to stick around? Would you advocate people joining you? 

Look at the facts, forget about the opinions, the good or the bad. Contrary to websites like the homecoming reunion and others, things are not changing for the better, violent crime is rising and the countries assests are dwindling. If crime is driven by poverty as is often quoted, how bad is it going to get when the country is just another banana republic?

Remember the facts! Not the opinion or the commentary (even mine).


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