# Residenza and taxes



## davidfryer23

I am buying a house in Italy and have been advised by the agents to declare it as my "first house" in Italy - which it is - so the tax is lower and then to apply for "residenza". I expect to spend a lot of time there as well as in the UK and just want to make sure this is the correct thing to do. If it is, can anyone assist with advice on how to apply for residenza? Thanks all


----------



## Nardini

To apply for residenza, you need to go along to your local town hall (municipio) and ask in the office of the anagraf. If you are an EU citizen, you can do the whole thing there - if not, you will need to buy a "pack" from the post office. The anagraf will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## davidfryer23

Thanks Nardini,

I am sure we can find the anagraf - the town hall is in the same street - but will it be necessary to give "proof" that I am residing there permanently or just that I use it as my only home when I am in Italy. I have funds to stay without needing support from the Italian state, plus the ability to earn money working over the internet and all services and utilities connected up in my name. Do you think that will be enough?

Grazie mille

D



Nardini said:


> To apply for residenza, you need to go along to your local town hall (municipio) and ask in the office of the anagraf. If you are an EU citizen, you can do the whole thing there - if not, you will need to buy a "pack" from the post office. The anagraf will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## VirtualOdin

davidfryer23 said:


> Thanks Nardini,
> 
> I am sure we can find the anagraf - the town hall is in the same street - but will it be necessary to give "proof" that I am residing there permanently or just that I use it as my only home when I am in Italy. I have funds to stay without needing support from the Italian state, plus the ability to earn money working over the internet and all services and utilities connected up in my name. Do you think that will be enough?
> 
> Grazie mille
> 
> D


David

To obtain "residenza", what the Anagrafe will want from you (if our Comune is a guide) is a passport; a payslip; and one of a range of forms from your native country to demonstrate that you are entitled to state healthcare or proof of private health insurance in Italy. This is where we have tripped up. We have been quoted forms E109, E37, E106, E121 and E101. If you are retired it seems easy enough. If you still have some work in the UK, as I do, it seems impossible, but I have not given up hope. I'm writing to HM Revenue and Customs today, again...

I hope this helps, but part of the reason for posting here is to ask if anyone else has cracked working in both UK and Italy and obtaining residenza in Italy.


----------



## Nardini

davidfryer23 said:


> Thanks Nardini,
> 
> I am sure we can find the anagraf - the town hall is in the same street - but will it be necessary to give "proof" that I am residing there permanently or just that I use it as my only home when I am in Italy. I have funds to stay without needing support from the Italian state, plus the ability to earn money working over the internet and all services and utilities connected up in my name. Do you think that will be enough?
> 
> Grazie mille
> 
> D


You will be applying for residency - residenza - which is to say, you home in Italy. Your application will include your declaration of either a work contract here, or sufficient income to support yourself without recourse to any kind of state aid - you may very well have to show proof of this as well. It will also include details of (assuming you are not yet of retirement age) private health care insurance. After you have made your application, you will receive a visit - unannounced - from a local policeman who will check that you are, indeed, living there.

There is not another kind of residenza possible and if you are not able to comply with this then I'm afraid your tax bill will go back up again.


----------



## Nardini

VirtualOdin said:


> David
> 
> To obtain "residenza", what the Anagrafe will want from you (if our Comune is a guide) is a passport; a payslip; and one of a range of forms from your native country to demonstrate that you are entitled to state healthcare or proof of private health insurance in Italy. This is where we have tripped up. We have been quoted forms E109, E37, E106, E121 and E101. If you are retired it seems easy enough. If you still have some work in the UK, as I do, it seems impossible, but I have not given up hope. I'm writing to HM Revenue and Customs today, again...
> 
> I hope this helps, but part of the reason for posting here is to ask if anyone else has cracked working in both UK and Italy and obtaining residenza in Italy.


You will find that different comune interpret the current legislation is slightly (some not so slight) different ways. This can be confusing for people that have succeeded in getting their health card or residenza without complying with all of the legal requirements. 

Current law requires you to have private health care provisions in place before being granted your residenza. Some people are lucky - others are not. Be wary of accepting advice from the lucky few which may bring you into conflict with your anagraf - you will need them to be on your side.

There are several places where you can arrange health care for yourself without paying unduly "through the nose"! Just make sure that your anagraf will accept the health care scheme provider before spending money on it. Ask, in other words.

Good luck.

I should add that you will need to have your codice fiscale as well, when you apply.


----------



## Angeldimana

davidfryer23 said:


> I am buying a house in Italy and have been advised by the agents to declare it as my "first house" in Italy - which it is - so the tax is lower and then to apply for "residenza". I expect to spend a lot of time there as well as in the UK and just want to make sure this is the correct thing to do. If it is, can anyone assist with advice on how to apply for residenza? Thanks all


Hi, I beleive the tax break only takes effect if you live in your new house permanantly and within 18 months of sale completion. We are going through a similar process at the moment and would love to save some money??

Good luck.


Nigel


----------



## Davidealex

We have successfully completed the residenza formalities at the commune - our EU health card seems to have been accepted - and now await the unannounced visit from the local police. The trouble is, although our new home is our only residence in Italy, we are presently dividing our time between it and London while we put our affairs in order. Does anyone know what the authorities consider acceptable as 'residence' in terms of the time we actually have to be there?

Grazie mille

DeA


----------



## Nardini

The reduced tax payable when you buy your house in Italy is subject only to the house being your "prima casa" in Italy and that you get your residenza granted by your comune. There is no time limit in reality, so long as you have your residenza and you will not be asked to pay the increased "stamp duty" on your house - so long as it is your one and only house in Italy. It does not matter in the slightest where else you live, or for how long.

David: With your application for residenza accepted by the comune, they will now send a local policemen (usually still called the vigili) to check that you really are living there. You might try to ask when they are coming, but the chances are that the answer will be "sometime in the future", without any other detail. If you are not there when they call, you will have to start the process all over again, so, my advice to you is to arrange to stay there until you have being granted your residenza - then go wherever else you want to be.


----------



## Davidealex

Nardini said:


> The reduced tax payable when you buy your house in Italy is subject only to the house being your "prima casa" in Italy and that you get your residenza granted by your comune. There is no time limit in reality, so long as you have your residenza and you will not be asked to pay the increased "stamp duty" on your house - so long as it is your one and only house in Italy. It does not matter in the slightest where else you live, or for how long.
> 
> David: With your application for residenza accepted by the comune, they will now send a local policemen (usually still called the vigili) to check that you really are living there. You might try to ask when they are coming, but the chances are that the answer will be "sometime in the future", without any other detail. If you are not there when they call, you will have to start the process all over again, so, my advice to you is to arrange to stay there until you have being granted your residenza - then go wherever else you want to be.


Thanks Nardini. We'd heard that the vigili visits are unprepdictable (although I gather that we shouldn't hold our breath at weekends or in August!). It looks as if we will have to adopt a kind of seige mentality for a while - an unfortunately timed visit to the shops could prove expensive.

DeA


----------



## gsimon

*residenza and car ownership*



Davidealex said:


> Thanks Nardini. We'd heard that the vigili visits are unprepdictable (although I gather that we shouldn't hold our breath at weekends or in August!). It looks as if we will have to adopt a kind of seige mentality for a while - an unfortunately timed visit to the shops could prove expensive.
> 
> DeA


congrats to us, we settled today on our home in Gagliano. Our agent told us that last year a new law was passed requiring Residenza for purchasing a car. We will not be living there, and he advised us not to even try to evade the purchase tax. However, many of his clients are upset about the car problem, and he suggests trying to get the Residenza AFTER the tax is paid so the commune cares less.......what do you think? I arrive July 1: first post!


----------



## Nardini

gsimon said:


> congrats to us, we settled today on our home in Gagliano. Our agent told us that last year a new law was passed requiring Residenza for purchasing a car. We will not be living there, and he advised us not to even try to evade the purchase tax. However, many of his clients are upset about the car problem, and he suggests trying to get the Residenza AFTER the tax is paid so the commune cares less.......what do you think? I arrive July 1: first post!


The only thing that your (or, or, etc) comune don't "care less about" is about what your tax status is.

You must remember that when you move to Italy, you are an immigrant. In your case, being a US citizen, you have the same rights to live here as, for example, a Mexican in the USA. You must comply with the immigration laws if you wish to stay in a foreign country, which is clearly defined and which the comune must follow and comply with..


----------



## gsimon

please, he only said might care less, not could care less, and I understand and appreciate the challenges to the country of immigration. And I appreciate your comments regarding documents etc. An attorney is investigating the new rule on behalf of the realtor, she indicates there is some confusion regarding its application. What is your opinion about the possibility of buying a vehicle?


----------



## Nardini

gsimon said:


> please, he only said might care less, not could care less, and I understand and appreciate the challenges to the country of immigration. And I appreciate your comments regarding documents etc. An attorney is investigating the new rule on behalf of the realtor, she indicates there is some confusion regarding its application. What is your opinion about the possibility of buying a vehicle?


I must firstly point out to you that neither of the words "could", nor "might" were used in the post to which I responded.

When you purchase property in Italy, the taxes that you pay on the purchase are reduced if the house is your "prima casa" in Italy. If the house you are buying is not your "prima casa" than you must pay the increased tax on the purchase. You have 18 months to achieve this qualification, after which the higher rate of taxation must be paid.

It is, obviously, well worth your while applying for residenza as soon as possible after the purchase has been confirmed, even though it may prove "inconvenient" to justify that you really do live in the house as your main residence in Italy. That is the price you must pay for the lower taxation level, which is designed to relieve the tax burden on the people who live in their houses full-time. Remember, that you must not sell the house for 5 years after purchase as well, or you will have to pay the higher level of tax at that time.

I note your comment on buying a vehicle, but have not answered that question here as this thread is all about property tax, no? I will only add, solely for your benefit, that you must have an address in Italy to which a car can be registered to - hence the need for residenza when you are buying a car.


----------



## davidfryer23

Nardini said:


> I must firstly point out to you that neither of the words "could", nor "might" were used in the post to which I responded.
> 
> When you purchase property in Italy, the taxes that you pay on the purchase are reduced if the house is your "prima casa" in Italy. If the house you are buying is not your "prima casa" than you must pay the increased tax on the purchase. You have 18 months to achieve this qualification, after which the higher rate of taxation must be paid.
> 
> It is, obviously, well worth your while applying for residenza as soon as possible after the purchase has been confirmed, even though it may prove "inconvenient" to justify that you really do live in the house as your main residence in Italy. That is the price you must pay for the lower taxation level, which is designed to relieve the tax burden on the people who live in their houses full-time. Remember, that you must not sell the house for 5 years after purchase as well, or you will have to pay the higher level of tax at that time.
> 
> I note your comment on buying a vehicle, but have not answered that question here as this thread is all about property tax, no? I will only add, solely for your benefit, that you must have an address in Italy to which a car can be registered to - hence the need for residenza when you are buying a car.


Thanks to all who have replied to this thread, especially Nardini.

As an update, I spoke with my geometra on my last visit and his comments reflect what has been said by a number of people - the interpretation of the rules is different from commune to commune. He assures me there will be no problem about achieving residenza so long as I don't have a second property in Italy and am at home when the police make their visit. We'll soon find out if that's true but I'll comply with as many of the things that have been said on here as possible just in case.

Incidentally, I have done some refurbishment on the property and my geometra says that the 18 month time limit to achieve residenza starts from the time he signs off the completed works and not from the time of purchase. I hope he is correct or I already have problems....


----------



## davidfryer23

*Latest news on this*



davidfryer23 said:


> I am buying a house in Italy and have been advised by the agents to declare it as my "first house" in Italy - which it is - so the tax is lower and then to apply for "residenza". I expect to spend a lot of time there as well as in the UK and just want to make sure this is the correct thing to do. If it is, can anyone assist with advice on how to apply for residenza? Thanks all


Well, I walked into the Anagrafe's office and said that I wanted to apply for residenza and asked if there is a form to fill in. She took my name, found me on her system and printed off the certificate there and then, at a cost of 26 cents. No producing any documents or evidence of finance/medical cover etc. My geometra had called ahead and explained that we had completed the refurbishment of our apartment and I think he spoke to the policeman too, so we didn't even have to wait in for him to visit and check us. I think it just confirms that the way different communes do it is different and it's very helpful to have a local on your side to smooth the way. Good luck to everyone else that's treading this path.


----------

