# Realistic costs?



## Mark Shaw (Oct 20, 2018)

Hi all. First thread so be gentle!

As with many others, my dear wife and I see a dire future for the uk and having holidayed in Spain many times we are seriously considering a move.

We own our house in the UK ( worth about 170tho ) and are considering selling up ... buying for 80 - 100thou and we would "top up" by returning to the UK to do agency work as and when required ( my wife's a qualified nurse )

We are seriously looking at The Mar Menor resort near Murcia as we like the quiet life and believe this would suit our future needs.

Are we being unrealistic and is this just a pipe dream and impossible to fulfil?

Are there hidden laws ( tax etc ) we don't know about?

Do you have to have a certain income to live in spain per year?

Being in our very early 50's it's still 15+ years til we become pensioners so we would need to do work of sorts. I'm hoping as a qualified dive instructor I'm able to get some part time work during the summer months at a local dive school etc.

Would really appreciate some friendly positive advise of the pros / negatives of the above.

Always followed dreams through life and hoping to carry on with this attitude in Spain! 

TIA ...Mark, Nicky and Rosie ( our Golden Retriever! )


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

Working in Spain. Youth unemployment 40%, overall unemployment 20%. Are you both fluent in Spanish?


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## Mark Shaw (Oct 20, 2018)

Hi.
No. Not fluent in Spanish ... our intentions aren't to work in Spain. I'd help out at a dive centre in the summer etc but my wife would come back to the UK for extended stretches to top the bank up etc ....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Mark Shaw said:


> Hi all. First thread so be gentle!
> 
> As with many others, my dear wife and I see a dire future for the uk and having holidayed in Spain many times we are seriously considering a move.
> 
> ...


Hi there!
If I were you I'd take a look at the sticky FAQ's as there's a lot of info there about taxes, paperwork, bring a car over, renting etc and also https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-spain. As it stands you do need to prove that you have a certain amount of money per month, between 600 - 1000euros depending on the local council and healthcare needs to be covered. This info is changing as we speak due to changes brought in by the government and of course changes taking place in the UK. There will probably be elections in Spain in 2019 and that could change the changes that are being talked about currently and of course Britain might have Brexited by then so all info is a bit tentative.
However, the fact that you need work might be the biggest obstacle to overcome. Maybe try a few short breaks at different times of the year to suss out regions you're interested in and also to suss out the employment opportunities??


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

No you are not being realistic; you need money to live and unless you KNOW where the money is coming from, you are going to wind up without any money and perhaps debts. 

When I moved to Spain some 16 years ago, I allowed for 1,000€ a month until my retirement, I added in Lump sum things like cars, washing machines or the roof blowing off etc. And then I added a contingency amount of 10% "just in case" my figures were inaccurate. 

I took several months going over the figures and reworking them to ensure I had enough money to live until retirement payments started (eight years away). 

If you rely on returning to the UK for work, then go through your living cost in the UK very carefully because running an empty house anywhere in the world relies on many things to make it possible to have two bases. Remember that there are static costs like Council tax and standing charges for electricity. 

My point is that you really must think the whole thing through until retirement and also have a very good idea that your retirement income will be sufficient for you to retire 

Davexf


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree with everything Davexf said. 15 years is a long time to have to fund your early retirement in Spain, and it's possible the UK Government will continue to raise the state retirement age, potentially making it even longer.

Do you and your wife really want to spend extended periods apart over the next 15 years whilst she works in the UK?

If you are selling your UK property (as you indicate) would she have somewhere to live in the UK whilst working there?

I do know several people who work in the UK on two-week assignments as live-in carers in the UK (a number of care agencies advertise for staff in the English language free papers over here) which solves the problem of accommodation in the UK as it is provided as part of the job. They have all done this as a last resort, having been unable to find other work here, rather than something they actively wanted to do.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi there!
> If I were you I'd take a look at the sticky FAQ's as there's a lot of info there about taxes, paperwork, bring a car over, renting etc and also https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-spain. As it stands you do need to prove that you have a certain amount of money per month, between 600 - 1000euros depending on the local council and healthcare needs to be covered. This info is changing as we speak due to changes brought in by the government and of course changes taking place in the UK. There will probably be elections in Spain in 2019 and that could change the changes that are being talked about currently and of course* Britain might have Brexited by then so all info is a bit tentative.*
> However, the fact that you need work might be the biggest obstacle to overcome. Maybe try a few short breaks at different times of the year to suss out regions you're interested in and also to suss out the employment opportunities??


Yes, that will be biggest change.

Currently a non-EU couple needs to prove an income of over 30,000€ a year from outside Spain plus have healthcare insurance, in order to secure a residence visa. It is illegal to work in Spain on this visa, too.

It's a serious possibility that this will apply to British citizens after Brexit.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Agree with others and also understand you may think we are being negative, as that’s the usual comment thrown at us following this type of post.


I too used to be a nurse. When we first decided to move, travelling back to the uk to do agency work was on my mind as well. However, travelling costs and general overheads etc ruled out any benefits from real income. If you are here as residents then you will need healthcare ( see the sticky) private. When or if your wife returns for work in UK she will also need health cover as it’s residency based in UK more expense. 

If you work in a dive centre in the summer is that contracted or self employed if self employed see sticky on autónomo payments. 

Brexit is the next spanner in the works. We live here, no idea what the terms and conditions of living here will be post Brexit. Could be UK citizens treated as non EU and the requirements for income is VERY high. 

From your figures selling up and buying leaves you about enough to put by for contingencies. 

I personally and as with everyone’s comments on here it’s only our our opinions, would not move anywhere in Europe unless I had a confirmed job or sufficient resources to not have to work. The UK is a far better place to be than sunny Spain when your struggling. I fear,your plan will lead you down a path of regret. Sensible people will price the UK v Spain as like for like, no Nasty shocks . 

Spain is a fantastic place to live, if you have financial security, it, like everywhere , is a nightmare if you don’t


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

On a positive note there are companies here in Spain that are always looking for people to work in the U.K as carers with very flexible working dates. I know several ladies who do this and make a very good living doing it. Some work two weeks on and two weeks back in Spain, others do less some more, all down to the individual. So from that point of view she'll be able to earn. Obviously you'll have to look into the tax side of things. How Brexit will affect this, who knows, not me, I suspect not anybody.
Have a read

https://www.helpinghandshomecare.co.uk/jobs/international-carers/carers-from-spain/
https://www.thegoodcaregroup.com/live-in-care-jobs/spain/


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## Mark Shaw (Oct 20, 2018)

Thank you all for your very helpful comments...wouldn't knock any off them as they are sensible through and through.

I guess everyone has been through similar issues of one kind or another...we certainly knew it wouldn't be easy moving over but at the same time, with what's been said, we never envisaged it being such a minefield!

Having sat and mulled our future options and read loads on here, maybe the lifestyle change we want is available but via renting rather than owning and making sure we stay below the days per year I believe make you a full time resident ( 189 is it? )

Again this is something we haven't a clue how to look into and wonder if having our 18 month Golden Retriever in tow may make this neigh on impossible ( are you able to rent with a dog??? )

Bit of a change to this thread but if anyone can give advise on where to start / pitfalls etc re renting I'd really appreciate it.

Feel like we've been kicked in the t'rollocks by the truthfull advice but thankful at the same time .... where there's a will there's a way eh!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mark Shaw said:


> Thank you all for your very helpful comments...wouldn't knock any off them as they are sensible through and through.
> 
> I guess everyone has been through similar issues of one kind or another...we certainly knew it wouldn't be easy moving over but at the same time, with what's been said, we never envisaged it being such a minefield!
> 
> ...


We've been here 15 years - we rented at first, looked at properties to buy but never quite found the right one.

I'm still renting,(now me, two adult daughters who come & go a bit as the whim / itchy feet take them, & 4 cats) & happy to be doing so, & at this stage won't buy now unless I came across a real bargain which was also perfect.

You could do what you suggest. Stick to well paid work in the UK & if you're planning to spend half the year here, you'd be better off finding a long term rental, than hoping to find short term / holiday rentals as you want them. 

Sorry to mention the B-word again, but Brexit might even change the goal posts on that. Non-EU citizens can only spend 90 days in every 180 here. So half a year is do-able, but there's less flexibility, & landlords are less likely to let to non-EU citizens with no visa. 

We're already hearing of landlords (wrongly) concerned about letting long term to well-established Brits.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Sorry to complicate matters still further for you - but if you spend 183 days in a calendar year in Spain, that makes you tax resident. However, you are also obliged to register as a resident within 90 days (that's a separate issue to tax residency). In order to register, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, you need to provide proof that you have sufficient financial resources not to become a burden on the state, and also private health insurance. Until now, some people have not bothered to do that and lived "under the radar" as we call it, but after Brexit if UK passports are stamped on entry and exit and visas are potentially required, that would become more difficult to get away with.

As Xabiachica pointed out, after Brexit when the UK becomes a third country, British citizens wishing to move here would have to demonstrate an income of over €30k for a couple.

Brexit really clouds the issue at the moment because none of us knows what is going to happen and what the new requirements for UK citizens wanting to move to Spain will be.

If it weren't for those unknowns, my best advice to you would be just to knuckle down and carry on working in the UK for at least the next 5 years, saving as much as you can to help your future plans. My husband and I gave up our jobs and moved to Spain when I was 50 and he 57, but we knew we would have some of our pensions coming in from age 60 and after 8 years when his state pension became payable too, we would definitely have enough to live on and with the prospects of more pension income from me to come. The shorter the period is that you have to survive without a guaranteed income, the easier it is to do.

By that time, the post Brexit situation would also have become clear (hopefully, but at the rate things are going, that might be a vain hope).


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

This link might help as regards Nursing jobs in Spain and the thorny issue of the mutual 
recognition of nursing qualifications, as it affects a nurse moving to Spain.
Might be of interest for your wife ?

Justlanded - How to get a nursing job in Spain


Also there are a few UK Nursing Agencies with Return to UK training centre's in 
Spain, aimed at former British nurses living in Spain where ( thanks to Brexit ) 
the value of recruiting, hiring or calling upon qualified British nurses in Spain;
available for hire over a contract period, is likely to quadruple thanks to HMG 
cutting down on the free movement of EU citizens to the UK after Brexit.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

There is one taxation issue that I think is worth mentioning - if your wife is a nurse, presumably she will be entitled to an NHS pension in the future. If she is resident in the UK when she starts to receive it, the lump sum element will be tax free. However, should she be tax resident in Spain by the time it becomes payable, those lump sums are taxable here and that would be a considerable amount. It's a subject dear to my heart as I had to pay a 5-figure Spanish tax bill the year after I started to draw my final salary pension - ouch! I did know about it before moving, but I wouldn't like it to come as a nasty shock if someone was unaware of it.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Mark Shaw said:


> Having sat and mulled our future options and read loads on here, maybe the lifestyle change we want is available but via renting rather than owning and making sure we stay below the days per year I believe make you a full time resident ( 189 is it? )
> 
> Again this is something we haven't a clue how to look into and wonder if having our 18 month Golden Retriever in tow may make this neigh on impossible ( are you able to rent with a dog??? )


As pointed out already, you automatically become _tax resident_ if you spend more than half a calendar year in Spain. That means you have to do Spanish tax returns on your income wherever it comes from, not just what you might earn in Spain.

When people talk about residency they generally mean going on a register of overseas residents, which you are required to do if you plan to stay more than three months. When you do this, you have to prove you have sufficient income and private health insurance so as not to become a "burden on the state".

You are allowed to spend three months here in any six month period without applying for residency, so your best bet is to come for shorter periods two or three times a year until you find a way of supporting yourselves here permanently.

I don't think the dog will be a problem, landlords seem to be much more relaxed about pets than in the UK, especially in rural areas. But it will be expensive going to and fro, you can't just hop on a cheap Easyjet flight.


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## Mark Shaw (Oct 20, 2018)

Sorry ...I obviously am unable to get my comments across correctly to certain contributors .... I've never said I find anyone's comments negative about this thread...they have all been so helpful and welcome ....it's been a wake up call to us and ones we will take on board .... positively!!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> You are allowed to spend three months here in any six month period without applying for residency, so your best bet is to come for shorter periods two or three times a year until you find a way of supporting yourselves here permanently.
> 
> I don't think the dog will be a problem, landlords seem to be much more relaxed about pets than in the UK, especially in rural areas. But it will be expensive going to and fro, you can't just hop on a cheap Easyjet flight.


The problem with that, unless I'm missing something, is that they presumably wouldn't be earning in the UK for the periods during which they'd be away. If so, they'd have their living costs, bills and upkeep on their UK home, and rent for the periods when they're in Spain, all to pay for out of less income than they have now.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Mark Shaw said:


> Sorry ...I obviously am unable to get my comments across correctly to certain contributors .... I've never said I find anyone's comments negative about this thread...they have all been so helpful and welcome ....it's been a wake up call to us and ones we will take on board .... positively!!!


 Don't worry about it Mark. Most people are able to keep up with you and it's refreshing to have members (mostly) helpful and well thought out posts appreciated as valuable opinions

Good luck and all I can say is keep an eye on Spain, don't give up on change even if it turns out not to be a move abroad, and see where life leads you


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## Mark Shaw (Oct 20, 2018)

Lynn R 100% correct! However .... think about it .... if my wife and I go on holiday for 2 weeks we would spend anywhere between 1500 and 3000 according to where we go.....yes it's only for 2 weeks. What will an average 3 month rental cost ....1200 - 1500 ....add a wee bit of spending money etc ... we own our own house currently so bills in the UK are minimum ....we still think this is a feasible way to change our current mundane lifestyle!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Mark Shaw said:


> Lynn R 100% correct! However .... think about it .... if my wife and I go on holiday for 2 weeks we would spend anywhere between 1500 and 3000 according to where we go.....yes it's only for 2 weeks. What will an average 3 month rental cost ....1200 - 1500 ....add a wee bit of spending money etc ... we own our own house currently so bills in the UK are minimum ....we still think this is a feasible way to change our current mundane lifestyle!


Yes, but if you go on a 2 week holiday you are still being paid for the whole year by your employer, whereas if you go for 3 months, you're not (unless you have an exceptionally generous employer!. So you would be earning 25% less over the year, but still paying a full 12 months' Council Tax, for example.

You won't find long term rental prices for a period of only 3 months. A wee bit of spending money -well, that plus all your food, electricity, water, transport, phone and entertainment costs as well as the air fares. Holiday rental prices include utility costs, but long term rentals generally don't.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Mark Shaw said:


> Lynn R 100% correct! However .... think about it .... if my wife and I go on holiday for 2 weeks we would spend anywhere between 1500 and 3000 according to where we go.....yes it's only for 2 weeks. What will an average 3 month rental cost ....1200 - 1500 ....add a wee bit of spending money etc ... we own our own house currently so bills in the UK are minimum ....we still think this is a feasible way to change our current mundane lifestyle!



You could always 'look north' in Asturias where the monthly rental is 300 to 450 Euros a month for an 
apartment and only a 2 hour drive from the Brittany Car Ferry port of Santander, to boot.

Finally I concur with Davexf - allow a monthly expenditure of 1000 Euros a month for those Brit's who
don't live extravagantly.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Williams2 said:


> You could always 'look north' in Asturias where the monthly rental is 300 to 450 Euros a month for an
> apartment and only a 2 hour drive from the Brittany Car Ferry port of Santander, to boot.


But are those prices available for just a 3-month rental?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Also, if your wife is a nurse and hoping to retire before 55 as far as her pension in concerned (NHS) that’s not counted as early retirement and she won’t be able to take it then, it will depend on what section of the pension plan she’s on. Also taking it that early means she will take a huge hit on her final pension. Agency work will not as far as I can remember contribute towards as NHS pension 

https://www.rcn.org.uk/get-help/rcn-advice/pensions-and-retirement#The NHS pension


There is also the registration process to be considered 

https://www.rcn.org.uk/professional-development/revalidation/10-most-common-myths-about-revalidation

You have much to think about. We considered moving but waited until I could take my pensions (NHS) at 55 without it affecting my final pension too much ( I still took a £1500 a year hit). 

What’s so dreadful about the UK that means you can’t carry on for another five six years and get in a financially better situation and with the spectre of post Brexit drama hopefully put to bed. 

Even without your financial situation as it is, Brexit is the real unknown, I would not be leaving the security of work, a house and family at this time


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> But are those prices available for just a 3-month rental?


Anythings possible in Asturias !!
Even Boney's been known to visit Northern Spain.

:lol:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> But are those prices available for just a 3-month rental?


Doubt it. Even here with village houses at 250/300€ a month. We ended up renting a holiday cottage when we arrived.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> Doubt it. Even here with village houses at 250/300€ a month. We ended up renting a holiday cottage when we arrived.


Well stand back in amazement, Megsmum as that's my monthly rental for a 2 bed apartment by the sea,
in Asturias on a never ending contract since October 2013.

Anyway - where's my round of applause then ??


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Williams2 said:


> Well stand back in amazement, Megsmum as that's my monthly rental for a 2 bed apartment by the sea,
> in Asturias on a never ending contract since October 2013.
> 
> Anyway - where's my round of applause then ??


 Yes, that’s the point, you have a never ending contract. Your landlord knows your worth the rent as your here long term but Try and get a rental for a set three months a year and usually you’ll fall into the holiday let scenario.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> Yes, that’s the point, you have a never ending contract. Your landlord knows your worth the rent as your here long term but Try and get a rental for a set three months a year and usually you’ll fall into the holiday let scenario.


Ah but this is Asturias !!


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## Bridie1955 (Oct 20, 2018)

We rent in Almunecar 6 weeks Sept to end of Oct. Then just under 3 months in Jan. We pay 720€ per month as it is classed as a holiday let. Have to pay elec but water and dodgy internet included it is 2 bed 2 bath on the beach but 3 miles out of town. Friends live in town no sea view but pay 500€ per month on an annual contract. Most places, well nearly all are furnished and very old fashioned and basic. It is near on impossible to get unfurnished rental but can be found. Just need to keep looking when you are in your chosen place.


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## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> There is one taxation issue that I think is worth mentioning - if your wife is a nurse, presumably she will be entitled to an NHS pension in the future. If she is resident in the UK when she starts to receive it, the lump sum element will be tax free. However, should she be tax resident in Spain by the time it becomes payable, those lump sums are taxable here and that would be a considerable amount. It's a subject dear to my heart as I had to pay a 5-figure Spanish tax bill the year after I started to draw my final salary pension - ouch! I did know about it before moving, but I wouldn't like it to come as a nasty shock if someone was unaware of it.


May nthe ed to check, but certainly on DC pensions (which the NHS isnt) you could defer the tax free lump sum until you decide, if you want, to move back to the UK


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

uk03878 said:


> May nthe ed to check, but certainly on DC pensions (which the NHS isnt) you could defer the tax free lump sum until you decide, if you want, to move back to the UK


I did think seriously about going back to live in the UK for at least six months of the year in which I received the lump sum, but it just seemed like too much hassle when I'd have had to declare myself non-resident on leaving then re-register as a resident the following year (and registering had become more complicated since I did it originally), and what would happen about my health cover as I had an S1 as my husband's dependant and didn't want to cancel that for just a short period then go through the process of getting a new one and re-registering with the INSS and the health centre. Plus,as we don't have a property in the UK I'd be paying for somewhere to live in the UK so with that and the higher cost of living there, it seemed rather self-defeating.

I think most people, when they reach the age when they can take their pension plus a lump sum if they are entitled to one, want to have the money in their hands right away - who knows what might happen, they might even not live to enjoy it if they deferred taking what they are entitled to. Having said that, I expected to have to wait until I was 60 before being able to draw this pension. I was delighted to receive a letter when I'd just turned 58 telling me that the scheme trustees had just changed the rules to allow pensions to be taken at 55 (with actuarial reduction) so I could, if I wished, take it immediately. I waited until the following year, though, both to minimise the actuarial reduction and to co-incide with the lowering of Spanish income tax rates which came into effect the next year. By taking that pension when I was 59 I avoided getting both that lump sum and my Civil Service pension lump sum (which became payable at 60) in the same tax year, otherwise the tax bill would have been even higher.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I did think seriously about going back to live in the UK for at least six months of the year in which I received the lump sum, but it just seemed like too much hassle when I'd have had to declare myself non-resident on leaving then re-register as a resident the following year (and registering had become more complicated since I did it originally), and what would happen about my health cover as I had an S1 as my husband's dependant and didn't want to cancel that for just a short period then go through the process of getting a new one and re-registering with the INSS and the health centre. Plus,as we don't have a property in the UK I'd be paying for somewhere to live in the UK so with that and the higher cost of living there, it seemed rather self-defeating.
> 
> I think most people, when they reach the age when they can take their pension plus a lump sum if they are entitled to one, want to have the money in their hands right away - who knows what might happen, they might even not live to enjoy it if they deferred taking what they are entitled to. Having said that, I expected to have to wait until I was 60 before being able to draw this pension. I was delighted to receive a letter when I'd just turned 58 telling me that the scheme trustees had just changed the rules to allow pensions to be taken at 55 (with actuarial reduction) so I could, if I wished, take it immediately. I waited until the following year, though, both to minimise the actuarial reduction and to co-incide with the lowering of Spanish income tax rates which came into effect the next year. By taking that pension when I was 59 I avoided getting both that lump sum and my Civil Service pension lump sum (which became payable at 60) in the same tax year, otherwise the tax bill would have been even higher.


Which is why timing your move is important. We ensured we moved here so we were not tax resident in Spain when I took it


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> Which is why timing your move is important. We ensured we moved before tax residency kicked in here.


I just wasn't prepared to stay in the UK, working, for another 10 years (as I thought it would be at the time, before my pension scheme rules changed) in order to get the lump sum tax free, though! I preferred the extra years of retirement.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Shaw said:


> Hi all. First thread so be gentle!
> 
> As with many others, my dear wife and I see a dire future for the uk and having holidayed in Spain many times we are seriously considering a move.
> 
> ...


Hi Mark
We are in exactly the same circumstances. I’m a self employed psychotherapist, my husband works in IT and is a BSAC diving instructor.

We’re in our early 50s with 14 years before we can claim our UK pensions. We are just doing it. Moving out there and see what happens. We can afford afford to buy somewhere outright but have decided to rent for the first year until we’re sure where we want to live. In September we spent three weeks finding our rental in an area that we felt happy with. Also whilst there we met a few well established couples who went out there in similar circumstances to our own and have successfully built a life and work for themselves.

I’ll probably receive some flack for this comment, but I know so many people who find reasons and excuses not to do something but with the UK being the way it is......and only likely to get worse, I find being in England increasingly untenable. If we are going to get out it makes sense to do so before Brexit. Nobody can see into the future, but it has to be better to be proactive than reactive. Life’s too short. I wish you all the best whatever you both do and suggest you follow your dreams and go with your “gut” but be prepared to take responsibility for your choices and not be beholden to others’ opinions.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Katenbill said:


> be prepared to take responsibility for your choices and not be beholden to others’ opinions.This bit I agree with
> Life’s too short.This bit I don't. I've never understood this phrase. Life's too short? Too short for what? You don't need much time to fck it up, Plenty of people manage to do a pretty good job of fcking it up every single year


 Think about a move and more than ever, don't think like a politician, that it will all sort itself out. Have a Plan B.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I just wasn't prepared to stay in the UK, working, for another 10 years (as I thought it would be at the time, before my pension scheme rules changed) in order to get the lump sum tax free, though! I preferred the extra years of retirement.


Absolutely, that’s why the financial hit on my pensón was worth not working another six or seven years hard slog 

.


> Also whilst there we met a few well established couples who went out there in similar circumstances to our own and have successfully built a life and work for themselves.


And possibly far more that you don’t know who are going back or in huge difficulties 



> I’ll probably receive some flack for this comment, but I know so many people who find reasons and excuses not to do something but with the UK being the way it is......and only likely to get worse, I find being in England increasingly untenable. If we are going to get out it makes sense to do so before Brexit. Nobody can see into the future, but it has to be better to be proactive than reactive. Life’s too short. I wish you all the best whatever you both do and suggest you follow your dreams and go with your “gut” but be prepared to take responsibility for your choices and not be beholden to others’ opinions.


I totally agree,there are lots of people who moan but do nothing or just watch a place in the sun wishing they could do it ! Life is short but life’s also untenable if you’re broke with no where to return to and no plan B. You have to have a plan B , be that returning to UK and so therefore needing something to go back to or being financially secure, here your until pension kicks in. I am now give it you flack at all because to move to another foreign country you need tenacity and a will and the acceptance that’s it’s a huge risk they are all mental traits however you also need money. We did it at 55, we have a very small savings income that will see us through to retirement in 6 years. We’ve had to be very careful no frills or spills. I do work now but did not come with intentions of working, and only because it’s a a way to be in the state healthcare and in the long term to retire through the Spanish system, which is why you are always having to think on your feet, if financial matters are tight. It’s not really a case of being given flack it’s about asking for an opinion and not always getting the answer you want to hear. The only time I hear alarm bells when someone asks the same question is when I hear the words “ we need an income “. So do all the Spaniards sitting on the unemployment register


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

Katenbill said:


> Hi Mark
> We are in exactly the same circumstances. I’m a self employed psychotherapist, my husband works in IT and is a BSAC diving instructor.
> 
> We’re in our early 50s with 14 years before we can claim our UK pensions. We are just doing it. Moving out there and see what happens. We can afford afford to buy somewhere outright but have decided to rent for the first year until we’re sure where we want to live. In September we spent three weeks finding our rental in an area that we felt happy with. Also whilst there we met a few well established couples who went out there in similar circumstances to our own and have successfully built a life and work for themselves.
> ...


Hi there could you expand on ‘’UK being the way it is......and only likely to get worse’’ I appreciate the weather is slightly more predictable in Spain.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It is very tempting to talk about the uk as a broken society that thanks to Brexit will be limping along in the near future but It is important to bear in mind that your thoughts are being driven quite abstractly. For example many people in Spain if asked would say the same about their country. Many young people feel their futures lie outside of the country due to a chronic lack of employment. Many are concerned about independence in Catalonia. Many feel that institutionalised corruption can never be eradicated. Many feel it is a country that lacks the progressive values of its northern European neighbours.Expats don't notice these things as many simply define their new home in the context of an absence of their old home. So you really shouldn't base your future happiness on what is essentially a kind of ignorance


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 
I'll add to my previous post that I "moved to Spain for one year"; I then "sat on a mountain top and contemplated life". I had moved lock, stock and barrel but had in mind that if Plan "A" wasn't as good as I thought it would be, then I would either move "onward and upward" or admit defeat and move back to the UK to retire to the West Country because of the excellent jazz they have there. 

Remember I had sufficient money for eight years plus a contingency fund to call upon. In other words I could afford to lose money by making the wrong move. 

Renting a house in Spain is lost money only if you decide Spain really is for you. If you decide Spain is not right for you then renting for a year is a wise choice 

Davexf


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hey Op,

Forget Mar Menor it's a bit medio de la nada.

Get to Javea, please. Every care service is maxed out (probably because they are advertising in Spain to send people to the UK) and any kind of residential short stay is permanently booked. If I were your wife I'd be looking at care services in Spain and seeing what the options are.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Expats don't notice these things as many simply define their new home in the context of an absence of their old home. So you really shouldn't base your future happiness on what is essentially a kind of ignorance


SOME expats don't notice these things...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> It is very tempting to talk about the uk as a broken society that thanks to Brexit will be limping along in the near future but It is important to bear in mind that your thoughts are being driven quite abstractly. For example many people in Spain if asked would say the same about their country. Many young people feel their futures lie outside of the country due to a chronic lack of employment. Many are concerned about independence in Catalonia. Many feel that institutionalised corruption can never be eradicated. Many feel it is a country that lacks the progressive values of its northern European neighbours.Expats don't notice these things as many simply define their new home in the context of an absence of their old home. So you really shouldn't base your future happiness on what is essentially a kind of ignorance


I agree, but you will find cracks in every society in the world if you care to look. Many people in the UK are living perfectly comfortably with secure jobs and nice houses and the only way Brexit will affect them is not being able to find the right sort of lettuce in Waitrose. Spain is just the same (apart from the lettuce) - the Catalan question doesn't affect their lives at all, although everyone has an opinion. 

The divisions are socio-economic, and have nothing to do with nationality or what country you are in.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> It is very tempting to talk about the uk as a broken society that thanks to Brexit will be limping along in the near future but It is important to bear in mind that your thoughts are being driven quite abstractly. For example many people in Spain if asked would say the same about their country. Many young people feel their futures lie outside of the country due to a chronic lack of employment. Many are concerned about independence in Catalonia. Many feel that institutionalised corruption can never be eradicated. Many feel it is a country that lacks the progressive values of its northern European neighbours.Expats don't notice these things as many simply define their new home in the context of an absence of their old home. So you really shouldn't base your future happiness on what is essentially a kind of ignorance


Excellent post.. I was about to post something along the same lines but you've said it all.

Imo telling people to 'go for it lock, stock and barrel and see how it works out' is extremely foolish and irresponsible advice. I can't imagine anyone who has spent many years living in Spain telling people to do that. If as sadly often happens after the first honeymoon period things go pear-shaped it can be very hard to go back to the seemingly much despised UK with your tail between your legs.

It's so refreshing that the OP has taken the very detailed comments in the spirit in which they were intended. Telling it like it is is often characterised as 'negativity'. We only hear about people who've made the move and settled in well long term. Those who found their dreams turned into nightmares don't post.

After all is said and done, Spain is a country comme les autres. It can be a great place to live if you have money enough to live your chosen lifestyle. But it's a harsh country for those who fall on hard times. Ask the millions of unemployed Spaniards....and they will have access to contacts and support a guiri would take years to acquire, if ever.

It's possible to live a very satisfying, good life in the UK. I did, for decades before I left thirteen years ago. Everything people moan and whinge about in the UK is moaned and whinged about by Spaniards. We know...we hear it every day from friends and neighbours! The plain truth is that life anywhere can be pleasant....if you have sufficient money to fit the lifestyle you want...and for the long term, not just the first couple of years. Sitting with a calculator working out if funds will stretch for another month or two turns dreams very rapidly sour.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Just a thought......hat, post-Brexit, will be the status of anyone who moved here in the last two or three years?
Will they have the right of permanent residence? (Assuming that is that they bothered to become Resident).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Just a thought......hat, post-Brexit, will be the status of anyone who moved here in the last two or three years?
> Will they have the right of permanent residence? (Assuming that is that they bothered to become Resident).


If they've never registered, they're almost certainly going to have a problem the minute they set foot outside Spain. Getting back in could well be an issue.
Freedom of movement is apparently right off the table. 

For those recently registered - who knows?


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## uknowwhatimeanharry (Oct 19, 2018)

Katenbill said:


> What I mean is that in my opinion, the U.K. is overcrowded, overpriced and overcast.
> 
> Nobody really knows what things will be like after Brexit, but regardless of which way anyone voted in the referendum all we hear is doom and gloom.
> 
> We’re certainly not stupid, we’ve done our due diligence, we’re not relocating on a whim. I would advise anyone else to work out their own criteria for success and consider how it would work for them based on their personal circumstances.


I personally agree with others and also understand you may think we are being negative, as that’s the usual comment thrown at us following this type of post. It’s a good idea to have a rethink and consider all our advice. I am not sure what due diligence you have actually done, other than listen to media garbage.

The UK population is 66.57 million. Unemployment is 1.36 million 4%. GDP 2.622 trillion USD (2017). 

Spain population is 47.1 million. Unemployment is 3.490 million 15.28%. Population below poverty line: 21.1%. GDP 1.311 trillion USD (2017)

Major cities in most thriving countries are overcrowded. London, Birmingham, Barcelona, Madrid. Both countries have an abundance of peaceful low populated towns and villages. 

The doom and gloom is just exaggerated media broadcasting. Sky news turns human suffering into entertainment and a lot of viewers suck it all up.

BREXIT is all a storm in a teacup being milked by the media scaremongering for more entertainment purposes.

Frank


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Katenbill said:


> What I mean is that in my opinion, the U.K. is overcrowded, overpriced and overcast.
> 
> Nobody really knows what things will be like after Brexit, but regardless of which way anyone voted in the referendum all we hear is doom and gloom.
> 
> We’re certainly not stupid, we’ve done our due diligence, we’re not relocating on a whim. I would advise anyone else to work out their own criteria for success and consider how it would work for them based on their personal circumstances.


Telling people to 'go for it' and similar advice then saying as you have here that people should consider 'how it would work out for them' is surely contradictory?

A couple of points: nobody knows what life will be like for British immigrants in Spain post-Brexit. I'm assuming that a) you have residence and b) you've been in Spain less than five years Apologies if I'm wrong on either or both counts. For those registered and here less than five years, Xabia's post explains the possible problems.

The UK is most certainly not 'overcrowded, over -priced and overcast'. Population density varies according to region. I've lived in London, Dorset and the East of England. Not everywhere is 'overcrowded'. Cities in Spain and everywhere are densely populated. That's because they're cities.
Over-priced?? You must be joking. Yes, beer, wine, spirits, tobacco and some foodstuffs are less expensive in Spain than in the UK. But many things are more expensive in Spain and generally speaking, depending on area, there is less choice.
Overcast? You really think the sun always shines in Spain?? You should have been in Estepona last weekend. Spain experiences extremes of weather. Believe it or not, the novelty of hot sun wears off eventually.

Doom and gloom?? In Spain in abundance but Brits who spend most of their time with other Brits may escape that, unless of course they have to join the 30% of Spaniards who are currently unemployed in my area, now the summer season is over.

Brexit ?? Media hype. Watch Al Jazeera for news and read the quality press and you might not notice any hysteria. But Brexit will affect the lives of Brits in Spain, even if merely through more bureaucracy and a plunging £ which could mean problems for those doing Spain on a shoestring.

Best place for low prices, no overcrowding and endless sunshine could be somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa ...but for some reason, it's not popular with Brits pissed off with the UK.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

uknowwhatimeanharry said:


> Major cities in most thriving countries are overcrowded. London, Birmingham, Barcelona, Madrid. Both countries have an abundance of peaceful low populated towns and villages.


But in UK the reason many towns and villages have low populations is that they are unpopular - why? because there is little or no public transport, there are few facilities, there are few shops and the prices for common goods such as groceries are higher (no Tesco/Sainsbury/Asda competition) In Spain, OK there may not be many more buses but there will most likely be a couple of supermarkets such as Coviran, Mas-y-Mas, Iberplus, etc where prices will be reasonable. In addition, most places in Spain have a local market at least one day per week (even on Sunday) which usually offer good value for money.


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## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

baldilocks said:


> But in UK the reason many towns and villages have low populations is that they are unpopular - why? because there is little or no public transport, there are few facilities, there are few shops and the prices for common goods such as groceries are higher (no Tesco/Sainsbury/Asda competition) In Spain, OK there may not be many more buses but there will most likely be a couple of supermarkets such as Coviran, Mas-y-Mas, Iberplus, etc where prices will be reasonable. In addition, most places in Spain have a local market at least one day per week (even on Sunday) which usually offer good value for money.


Not where I live in the UK
4,000 person town - growing year on year - no big supermarket
One butchers, one bakery, four pubs (originally 23 back on the day), one small co-op, one small spar, two barbers, one hairdressers, two nick nack shops, dog food place, fantastic hardware store, doctor surgery, three other food places .. and a few other places
And a weekly market on Friday
Nearly every young couple has a car (see the latest bbc news report today about that today)
10 miles to the nearest big supermarket - the only people who use public transport are school kids going to nearest Nandos and really old people (70+)


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Plenty of life in West Sussex villages, most have a half houry bus. Also lots of community transport. Trips to Waitrose , Tesco and Sainsbury's. Weekly trips to Chichester and other towns.
Our village has benefitted from the London flight, more young families moving in, school rated outstanding. Some pretty pubs keep closing though only to reopen. Tied to breweries, rents too high not sure.

Just to add the buses always look to have about two people on, can't see them lasting.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> But in UK the reason many towns and villages have low populations is that they are unpopular - why? because there is little or no public transport, there are few facilities, there are few shops and the prices for common goods such as groceries are higher (no Tesco/Sainsbury/Asda competition) In Spain, OK there may not be many more buses but there will most likely be a couple of supermarkets such as Coviran, Mas-y-Mas, Iberplus, etc where prices will be reasonable. In addition, most places in Spain have a local market at least one day per week (even on Sunday) which usually offer good value for money.


Sorry, but as a reluctant frequent flyer to the UK staying in a small village I disagree. Generally, villages have reasonsable transport. It’s the so called sink estates built outside of major towns etc, where those who can least afford taxis etc have the lack of public services. When I lived in my sleepy hamlet in East Sussex we had no local shops but we could have supermarket deliveries which is the way many people shop now. I actually do my dads monthly top up via his account in Tescos from my terrace in Spain.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Megsmum said:


> Sorry, but as a reluctant frequent flyer to the UK staying in a small village I disagree. Generally, villages have reasonsable transport. It’s the so called sink estates built outside of major towns etc, where those who can least afford taxis etc have the lack of public services. When I lived in my sleepy hamlet in East Sussex we had no local shops but we could have supermarket deliveries which is the way many people shop now. I actually do my dads monthly top up via his account in Tescos from my terrace in Spain.


Maybe where you go. I speak from personal experience in that there was an agreement between Essex County Council and Arriva to operate a minibus service on the Dengie peninsula linking the villages to the station at Southminster and the main bus service that ran to Burnham on Crouch. I know because I wrote the timetable.

in 2006 Arriva no longer wanted the contract so the excellent minibus service ceased, leaving the villages with no bus service. What small shops there were would not pass for what one would know as a 'village shop' - they had little to offer and what there was , was at inflated prices.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

My experience of rural village life in the UK is that many have been taken over by well-off middle-class families eager to escape the city for the supposed joys of country style living.
Schools close, pubs close or are turned into posh restaurants, the village shop struggles...the indigenous inhabitants can no longer afford to buy or rent properties in the place where they were born.
These villages are by no means 'dead'. They are often very lively with excellent community arts and other organisations, farm shops providing quality fruit and vegetables and posh speciality shops, selling country gear like expensive Barbours.
But I'm mainly thinking of the North Norfolk coast. It may be different elsewhere.

It seems to me that there is a tendency to see Spain through rose-tinted spectacles. Anyone having to deal with officialdom in other than the fairly simple procedures of registering for residencia and so on or having run-ins with the police may have a different view. Even our comparatively small charity has experienced nightmare unnecessary bureaucratic and administrative obstacles when trying to acquire licences, sell land, get access to inheritances.
Then there's the almost total unaccountability of the forces of supposed law and order. A young Spanish friend who works as an entertainer was forced off the road one night last year by a car with two men who forced him to strip by the roadside and beat him . They were plain clothes police. He was taken to Estepona police station and kept in a cell for two nights then released with no charges and no apology. When he retrieved his car it had been trashed and a new battery stolen. It seemed that because his work involved being at various clubs and similar venues he was wrongly suspected of dealing drugs. He had severe facial injuries and bruised ribs.
Now I'm not saying similar things don't happen in the UK. Of course they do. But there are channels for redress which don't exist in Spain, or if they do, are not easily accessed.

It's so easy to see Spain as a dream land of peace, sea, sun, cheap wine etc. and a relaxed lifestyle. That, with respect, is a Brit bubble view. It's not the total picture of real life, not even half.


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

*No right or wrong*

Just to add my two penneth

Totally agree with much of what has been written - "the grass is greener" afflicts people in all countries...familiarity does indeed breed contempt.

We had a wonderful life in a rural Yorkshire village that was and remains a thriving community.

We now have a wonderful life in Spain....it is different but better IMO. I won't go into the reasons...they are specific to our situation.

What I will say however is that my personal preference is to live in a less "progressive" as a society....progression in the UK seems to me to polarise views and for many life appears to be manipulated by the media (both traditional and social).

Spain is a little old fashioned on some issues but that is how I prefer it for my family.

To the original poster - balance is so important in everything. I'd say follow your dream, you deserve the life you want but without a at least a basic plan and some small financial resource, that dream may not be realistic.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think the ones who move with the attitude that everything is bad in UK and all is perfect in Spain are the ones who tend not to settle. Nowhere is perfect, different country, different crap. It is where you prefer to be. As above finance is important.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

KG5 said:


> Just to add my two
> 
> What I will say however is that my personal preference is to live in a less "progressive" as a society....progression in the UK seems to me to polarise views and for many life appears to be manipulated by the media (both traditional and social).
> 
> ...


On the contrary!! On most social issues Spain is more ’progressive’ than the UK.
Attitudes to sex and sexual behaviour are much more relaxed and women are strongly represented in political life. I was initially surprised at the coarseness of everyday language but soon got used to it although the casual use of the ‘c’ word still shocks me slightly.
Spain introduced same sex marriage long before the UK. I and my (same sex) partner live openly and nobody bats an Eyelid. ‘Live and let live’ seems to be the Spanish way of life. That and respect for privacy.
Of course the Church tries and often succeeds in imposing its moral dogma and some senior clerics make outrageous ststements about gays, abortion and so on.
But Spanish society seems to me to be much more accepting, tolerant and kind than uptight yet prurient British mores as purveyed in the Daily Mail and on trash tv.


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

mrypg9 said:


> On the contrary!! On most social issues Spain is more ’progressive’ than the UK.
> Attitudes to sex and sexual behaviour are much more relaxed and women are strongly represented in political life. I was initially surprised at the coarseness of everyday language but soon got used to it although the casual use of the ‘c’ word still shocks me slightly.
> Spain introduced same sex marriage long before the UK. I and my (same sex) partner live openly and nobody bats an Eyelid. ‘Live and let live’ seems to be the Spanish way of life. That and respect for privacy.
> Of course the Church tries and often succeeds in imposing its moral dogma and some senior clerics make outrageous ststements about gays, abortion and so on.
> But Spanish society seems to me to be much more accepting, tolerant and kind than uptight yet prurient British mores as purveyed in the Daily Mail and on trash tv.


Sorry - I was more focusing on political correctness and the use of technology than attitudes towards sex.

I agree it is more accepting...live and let live


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Use of technology? Spain is now at no. 16 in the ranking of average broadband speeds by country, the UK is at no. 35.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds

Spaniards, especially younger ones and children, seem just as permanently welded to their mobile phones as people in the UK are - and I don't see that as a good thing.

Use of technology for things like accessing medical appointments, being able to access medical records online (if you have a digital signature) is brilliant here. New hospitals being opened in Spain have private ensuite rooms - no 8 bed bays here.

Spain has a well developed high speed rail network - the UK is still wrangling about HS2 and the budget is constantly escalating.


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> Use of technology? Spain is now at no. 16 in the ranking of average broadband speeds by country, the UK is at no. 35.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds
> 
> ...


That all maybe so but my opinion is that it is some way behind both in terms of adoption by everyday people and in terms of general innovation. Subjective...but I work in technology and see far fewer examples of innovation.

People also resist technology in an attempt to talk to each other much more here...where I am anyway.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Use of technology? Spain is now at no. 16 in the ranking of average broadband speeds by country, the UK is at no. 35.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds
> 
> ...


Lots of state schools have electronic whiteboards & in many, students are issued with ipads which interact with the screens, & textbooks are downloaded onto them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

KG5 said:


> That all maybe so but my opinion is that it is some way behind both in terms of adoption by everyday people and in terms of general innovation. Subjective...but I work in technology and see far fewer examples of innovation.
> 
> People also resist technology in an attempt to talk to each other much more here...where I am anyway.


Again, respectfully disagree. My Spanish friends of all ages are seemingly welded to their mobile phones.

You mention this vague concept ‘political correctness’. I take this to refer to the excellent practice of being polite and respectful and refraining from racial, gender or homophobic abuse. Again, in this respect, most Spaniards abhor this kind of behaviour. Of course racism etc exists but Spanish political culture has no far right group or Party of significance and people are treated with respect regardless of ethnicity nationality or sexual orientation. The lsrge number of sub-Saharan migrants currently reaching Spanish shores has not so far provoked any serious backlash.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> Lots of state schools have electronic whiteboards & in many, students are issued with ipads which interact with the screens, & textbooks are downloaded onto them.


I was surprised when, not long after we arrived here, we saw our neighbours' children using notebook computers in the street and they explained that every student was issued with one by the Junta de Andalucia. That must have been at least 10 years ago. I don't think any of my nephews have ever had that in the UK and one of them has only just left school and started college.

My 4 year old great niece was given her own i-pad for her birthday last month - ridiculous, imo.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

KG5 said:


> That all maybe so but my opinion is that it is some way behind both in terms of adoption by everyday people and in terms of general innovation. Subjective...but I work in technology and see far fewer examples of innovation.
> 
> People also resist technology in an attempt to talk to each other much more here...where I am anyway.


Nope. Our students have far more technology available to them than my niece In Her English school. The Spanish are phone mad, even in my dark corner of Spain. Most children have XBoxes Playstations. 

I can get a fire licence in two minutes online, make a GP appointment, check my results, reschedule any hospital appointments all on th Internet I live in the middle of nowwhere, my internet and mobile phone signal is far superior than in the village where I lived in the UK.

There are many frustrating things about Spain, but the use of technology is not one of them


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Where oh where has this thread gone?! Jumping on the technology issue, I agree that the Spanish are pretty techie including using Netflicks and still being able to download series and films from pirate sites. Very few people are reading books on the train and metro, but in a carriage of 50 people 40 wil be looking at the phone (Everyone who has a phone has What'sApp and uses it for work, family, friends, to book tables in restaurants, get info...One company I worked in didn't have a door bell on one floor so I had to Whatsapp them to be let in).
However, my daughter was 14 10 years ago (going back to Lynn's reference) and she never had any technology. No wait, there was a white board in one class. I still don't see children around here using anything other than books


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Where oh where has this thread gone?! Jumping on the technology issue, I agree that the Spanish are pretty techie including using Netflicks and still being able to download series and films from pirate sites. Very few people are reading books on the train and metro, but in a carriage of 50 people 40 wil be looking at the phone (Everyone who has a phone has What'sApp and uses it for work, family, friends, to book tables in restaurants, get info...One company I worked in didn't have a door bell on one floor so I had to Whatsapp them to be let in).
> However, my daughter was 14 10 years ago (going back to Lynn's reference) and she never had any technology. No wait, there was a white board in one class. I still don't see children around here using anything other than books


It's weird how threads meander sometimes isn't it?

Yes it does depend on where you live & who you mix with I suppose, but to say that Spain is technologically slow isn't true, which is probably why that has been jumped on.

It's true that in general Spain isn't as overly PC as the UK - although I'm sure I saw something recently about some political party considering banning the Moors & Christians parades & there was an attempt some years back - but nothing ever seems to come of it.

'Family values' seem to still be important too, with several generations hanging out together, & although Spanish teens are really no different to teens elsewhere with what they get up to on their own - they do seem to still have respect for the older generations. 

''Conozco a tu abuela'' (I know your grandma) is often the best way to get kids to behave 

Having a local police force which really IS local, too, makes a difference. They get to know the kids from infancy when they are on crossing duty outside school, & are part of their lives both in & out of school hours. There's a mutual respect. 

I don't live in a village - there are about 30,000 residents in my town. 80 different nationalities, & yes, lots of people coming to live here for a few years & then leaving. But there's still a feeling of community & looking out for each other among those of us who hang around & have brought up our kids here.

None of which has anything to do with the thread title - but that seems to have been dealt with already!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I was surprised when, not long after we arrived here, we saw our neighbours' children using notebook computers in the street and they explained that every student was issued with one by the Junta de Andalucia. That must have been at least 10 years ago. I don't think any of my nephews have ever had that in the UK and one of them has only just left school and started college.
> 
> My 4 year old great niece was given her own i-pad for her birthday last month - ridiculous, imo.


If you would excuse the continued - off topic reply then can the forum . . . . . . 

Tell me - going back to the 1970's and 80's - there was a time when calculators were banned from being used
in exams - what is the present day attitude to notepads and smartphones being found or even condoned by 
examiners in the exam rooms or does this depend on the subject of the exam being taken by students ?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

There are some areas where Spain is years behind the UK in the use of technology - and in some of them I hope it remains that way for many years to come (the use of self service checkout machines in shops, for example - I loathe them).

Use of CCTV in public areas is far less widespread in Spain - mainly due to what could be considered to be "PC" attitudes such as Spain's privacy laws.

Another two areas where Spain is arguably more socially progressive - unlike the UK it has not persisted in criminalising people for the use or cultivation of cannabis for personal consumption, and the Government is preparing to put a law permitting voluntary euthanasia in certain circumstances before Parliament. Both of those are positive things in my opinion, others will disagree.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Williams2 said:


> If you would excuse the continued - off topic reply then can the forum . . . . . .
> 
> Tell me - going back to the 1970's and 80's - there was a time when calculators were banned from being used
> in exams - what is the present day attitude to notepads and smartphones being found or even condoned by
> examiners in the exam rooms or does this depend on the subject of the exam being taken by students ?


It appears that they are not condoned (if discovered).

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...eating-mobile-phones-gcse-exams-a-levels-2017


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The chip in soc/seg medical cards is a truly brilliant use of technology. Why it isn't common in the UK I do not know.

When I fell and cut my head the ambulance crew put my card in their onboard computer and were able to access my complete medical history, prescriptions and so on.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stating the bleedin' obvious.....your perceptions of Spanish society and what makes it tick will depend hugely on your level of close interaction with Spanish society, access to Spanish tv and other media and of course your competence in the language.

If you spend your time socially and culturally mainly in a British milieu (and nothing wrong with that) of course your perceptions will be other than those of someone who doesn't.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> The chip in soc/seg medical cards is a truly brilliant use of technology. Why it isn't common in the UK I do not know.
> 
> When I fell and cut my head the ambulance crew put my card in their onboard computer and were able to access my complete medical history, prescriptions and so on.


They'd have to have soc/seg medical cards for a start, before they could put a chip in them! But they don't have a system for that, nor one for citizen ID cards or registering foreign residents.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> They'd have to have soc/seg medical cards for a start, before they could put a chip in them! But they don't have a system for that, nor one for citizen ID cards or registering foreign residents.


There seems, in the UK to be an irrational fear of "1984" and that the likes of Emmanuel Goldstein is likely to get hold of their personal data which are already in official records.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

EX Nurse alert 

The NHS can’t even get to grips with shared medical records. When I first started in trauma surgery we had to have medical records faxed over when we admitted a trauma patient from another hospital, when I left five years ago we could at least see Xrays etc but were very reliant on the hospital referring to tell us patients medical history. I lots count of the times an A&E in London hospitals referred Burns and trauma patients with the tag line..... otherwise fit and well, when the patients arrived they had a miriad of other issues, meaning we were not ready.

I don’t understand why they don’t have a card, so simple and no abuse of the system no card no care simples


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> EX Nurse alert
> 
> The NHS can’t even get to grips with shared medical records. When I first started in trauma surgery we had to have medical records faxed over when we admitted a trauma patient from another hospital, when I left five years ago we could at least see Xrays etc but were very reliant on the hospital referring to tell us patients medical history. I lots count of the times an A&E in London hospitals referred Burns and trauma patients with the tag line..... otherwise fit and well, when the patients arrived they had a miriad of other issues, meaning we were not ready.
> 
> I don’t understand why they don’t have a card, so simple and no abuse of the system no card no care simples


There's a story in The Guardian this morning about how fax machines are still used in the NHS - 345 of them in Leeds NHS Trust alone, apparently.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/25/leeds-nhs-trust-345-fax-machines-want-rid


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## Gfplux (Jun 27, 2016)

Mark Shaw, just a heads up on something not covered in the many useful replies to your original post.
assuming you are both British passport holders do remember there is an effective cut off date for a British immigrant either at the end of March 2019 (Brexit day) or the end of December 2020 IF the transition deal is signed. If you are resident as an immigrant by the cut off the EU will respect your rights to stay (you will have exercised your free movement rights) 
After Brexit to apply for residence as a third country National (as all Brits will be) will be much more difficult than it is now. Just as it is for Americans and Australians. There will be a minimum income test and a Police check as just two examples.
However if you just want to visit Spain, France or any of the Schengen countries on holiday there are changes in 2021 to protect the Schengen area. This is ETIAS (EU version of the USA ESTA) it will be for short multiple holiday visits to the Schengen Zone. Applications will be made online and I believe there will be a criminal record check, there will be just the same issues that people have had with America, ie overstaying may result in being refused re-entry.
Having voted against Brexit please will you keep speaking out against it as it could always be cancelled and your dream of retiring to the EU will be easy.
I imagine you know all this but too many surprisingly don’t


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## Pipeman (Apr 1, 2016)

" it could always be cancelled"...

want to explain how you have deduced this as I've not seen anything to support this?


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## Gfplux (Jun 27, 2016)

Pipeman said:


> " it could always be cancelled"...
> 
> want to explain how you have deduced this as I've not seen anything to support this?


There is a small possibility that the British Government will come to its senses or a change of Prime Minister or an act of God.
I still have to hope.


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