# Is my Bowab ripping me off?



## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

Hi All,

Since I have been here, each month there seems to be always something that crops up, that requires me to pay towards. My agreement with the landlord is that for all bills, including the Bowab's wages, I pay 150 LE per month, and nothing more. The first month was OK. Come second month, the Bowab knocked on my door asking for 60LE, as they were re-wiring the whole building and everyone has to contribute. I explained to him that I should not be paying this, and that he needs to take this up with the landlord. He called the landlord in front of me and the landlord agreed that I shouldn't pay. 60LE was then deducted from my next months rent, as the bowab wanted the 60LE upfront, which I gave. Issued solved. Now, about 4 days ago, the elevator was broke. Bowab said he wanted 50LE from me, a contribution from all flats, to fix this and get a new keypad for the inside of the elevator (its been hanging off wires since I moved in) I told him that I didnt have the money with me now, and ill pay it together with next months 150LE monthly payment. Agreed. Since then, I have been a bit under the weather and haven't left the house for about 4/5 days, until yesterday when I had to go to Cairo airport. Left home, when I pressed the elevator call button, it came and I noticed a new keypad, but it wouldnt work when I pressed the buttons, as its one of those scan ones, where I need to scan something before it worked - but I didnt have anything to scan! So I had to take the stairs down - it was 7am and everyone, including the bowab was asleep. 

When I came back home from Cairo, with lots of luggage and family from back home, bowab said the elevator is not working. His wife said the electric has cut. Then I told her about walking down in the morning and needing a card. Then the bowab told me that I still owe 60 LE, from before, 50le for the elevator, plus 10LE for a magnetic elevator card. I was so knackard, I couldnt be bothered to argue with them, so I just paid them. 

Later, the bowab asked me where I have been. I then got the impression that because they havent seen me for the last 4/5 days, they think I am avoiding paying them. I was just sick and hadn't been out! They can see who comes in and out - and since they have not seen me, they probably assumed that I am avoiding paying them. I explained I was sick and he seemed OK with that. Now I feel like I have been ripped off by that 60LE. In the past, when I have mentioned speaking to my landlord about these things - they don't like it. I am thinking of going down now and speaking to his wife, telling her that what she did in faking electricity cut was wrong and that I will be speaking to my landlord about all this. Ill do it in a nice way of course, in the past she keeps telling me that I am like her "sister" etc... and I have until the summer here and so not want any bad feelings. 

What do you think?


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Yes, bawabs will collect from individual flats for common area things (repairs, Ramadan decorations, etc.), but seems like the property owner is willing to pay for building upkeep so that's who the bawab needs to speak with. He obviously has his telephone number and can get ahold of him, so that's what he should do.

As for the electricity being cut, that's entirely possible. I lived in a building once and the bawab insisted on shutting the elevators off for an hour every afternoon so they could rest.

Call the flat owner and explain what's happened and let him sort it out with the bawab. If there's something shady going on, you'll know because there will be a different bawab (with family) next month as the current one will be gone.


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## PaulAshton (Nov 18, 2011)

Every bowab is different, sometimes not a case of ripping people off but not having money and they often live in dire conditions and need money that they get off people for food, it's not like they are driving around in a mercedes.

Simply create a tracker to detail all expenses, if you cannot afford them make the building owner aware

If in doubt for expenses say you want to see the receipt, in any case speak to the building owner.

My bowab get's his water from the mains and fills the tanks, he pays the water company 6.9 LE per cubic but charges us 20LE per cubic and says it's trucked when it's not, it took a bit of asking around to find out to get the documentation.

We are simply having water mains fitted to our villa from the water company and paying them direct


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

ArabianNights said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Since I have been here, each month there seems to be always something that crops up, that requires me to pay towards. My agreement with the landlord is that for all bills, including the Bowab's wages, I pay 150 LE per month, and nothing more. The first month was OK. Come second month, the Bowab knocked on my door asking for 60LE, as they were re-wiring the whole building and everyone has to contribute. I explained to him that I should not be paying this, and that he needs to take this up with the landlord. He called the landlord in front of me and the landlord agreed that I shouldn't pay. 60LE was then deducted from my next months rent, as the bowab wanted the 60LE upfront, which I gave. Issued solved. Now, about 4 days ago, the elevator was broke. Bowab said he wanted 50LE from me, a contribution from all flats, to fix this and get a new keypad for the inside of the elevator (its been hanging off wires since I moved in) I told him that I didnt have the money with me now, and ill pay it together with next months 150LE monthly payment. Agreed. Since then, I have been a bit under the weather and haven't left the house for about 4/5 days, until yesterday when I had to go to Cairo airport. Left home, when I pressed the elevator call button, it came and I noticed a new keypad, but it wouldnt work when I pressed the buttons, as its one of those scan ones, where I need to scan something before it worked - but I didnt have anything to scan! So I had to take the stairs down - it was 7am and everyone, including the bowab was asleep.
> 
> ...





You are a foreigner therefore you have money and the bowab expects you to contribute to his meager earnings. I am happy to pay the bowab for doing a job regardless that we pay monthly for his service. I tip him when he carries my shopping, goes to the shop, picks up dry cleaning etc.
However I do get annoyed that they take money monthly and I have to chase them to do their set jobs.. ie wash the floor.


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## PaulAshton (Nov 18, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> You are a foreigner therefore you have money and the bowab expects you to contribute to his meager earnings. I am happy to pay the bowab for doing a job regardless that we pay monthly for his service. I tip him when he carries my shopping, goes to the shop, picks up dry cleaning etc.
> However I do get annoyed that they take money monthly and I have to chase them to do their set jobs.. ie wash the floor.


The only person "ripping off" is the building owner who might not have paid the bowab for his expenses or paying him peanuts and other Egyptian's who are not paying his wages as they don't have the money or made some excuse not to or have left the building and he needs that money...

Once you understand why they do it and the slave like conditions they live in you will have a better understanding and also understand the lack of motivation they can have

That 60 LE might mean he has some meat to eat that week

It does not justify it however but do not hold any resentment towards them..simply get the facts and proof of what payments and requirements and give him some tea bags etc once in a while to keep them sweet you never know when you need the guy..perhaps the next time your toilet is plugged

Just watch out he does not come back for more and more


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Trying to collect 60 LE *twice* for the same thing _is_ ripping off.


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## marimar (Feb 9, 2011)

We pay less than 50LE per month for electric,water and gas combined and we are a family of four so I would say that the agreement you have with the owner of 150 Le per month for all bills is plenty. Like someone said before sometimes bowebs try to up their wages by asking people, especially foreigners for extras. It's up to you if you pay or not, if it's not in your agreement you shouldn't feel obliged to pay. Giving tips every now and again is good to keep a good relationship with the boweb.
If it becomes too regular, talk to your landlord.


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## PaulAshton (Nov 18, 2011)

expatagogo said:


> Trying to collect 60 LE *twice* for the same thing _is_ ripping off.


Yes it is..note what my bowab was doing, charging me 20LE for water when he pays 6.9LE

In the instance of the original poster I would speak to the landlord and deduct those expenses from the rent, not the bowab wages then the landlord can recover them from the bowab (and any future expenses not agreed)

Every foreigner is open to getting ripped off here, its just a case of defining them as white, grey and black scams 

I define ripped off as someone making profit, problems is once you let them get away with it once they will come back for more and more.

So Arabian Nights don't stand for the "you are my sister" crap your contract is not with the bowab but the landlord, if your landlord has said you only pay 150LE and not anything more so be it, many people only pay 50 - 100LE...stick to your guns...and serve the bowab with the same lines that he is your brother...:eyebrows:

The bowab does not own the building he maintains it if he does not like it he can choose to maintain elsewhere

So make any relevant deductions from your rent, tenants are not easy to find these days


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## canuck2010 (Jan 13, 2010)

Shortly after we moved into our new building a few months ago, one of the boabs showed up with a hand written bill from the landlord for 150le for 'water'. As this seemed like a large amount to pay for water for one month we discovered that it also included a 'fee' for the two boabs of the building (one night and one day). 

On the face of it, this hidden fee seemed ridiculous. For one thing, the landlord lives in the penthouse and the boabs are at his beckon call, they really do nothing for us besides 'garbage collection', for which there is a garbage shoot anyway. Furthermore, there was nothing in the lease agreement about paying the boabs nor monthly maintenance fees -- so technically we don't need to pay anything in addition to utilities (water, electricity, phone ect..) and rent.

Because of the recent unrest, we were given two private security guards by our company just to guard our apartment (they sit right out front and chat all day with the boabs), so this further reduces any actual 'work' these other boabs may be doing for us. We figure we pay enough rent as it is so the landlord can cover all the little stuff. Interestingly, after we confronted the landlord about his hand written bill of 'extra fees for the boabs' , he just said we can pay them if we wish too but its up to us, which made the decision easy. Since this incident, the boabs have left us alone and go about maintaining the building. We'll give them a small gift of food on holidays, but other than that, no cash.

There are about six apartments in our building, so 150le per apartment per month (in addition to what the landlord may be paying) for the boabs, would be about the same amount a teacher or police officer is paid, not to mention the boabs are provided with a roof over their head, electricity, water ect.... These boabs have it pretty good, but that doesn't stop them from being greedy.


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## CatMandoo (Dec 16, 2011)

Personally, since you have a written agreement with the owner covering all expenses, I would speak to the owner about this. Ask him to talk to the bowab and not bother you with any of these things again. It's NOT your business.  (as Egyptians love to say)


Hope you are feeling better.


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## PaulAshton (Nov 18, 2011)

canuck2010 said:


> Shortly after we moved into our new building a few months ago, one of the boabs showed up with a hand written bill from the landlord for 150le for 'water'. As this seemed like a large amount to pay for water for one month we discovered that it also included a 'fee' for the two boabs of the building (one night and one day).
> 
> On the face of it, this hidden fee seemed ridiculous. For one thing, the landlord lives in the penthouse and the boabs are at his beckon call, they really do nothing for us besides 'garbage collection', for which there is a garbage shoot anyway. Furthermore, there was nothing in the lease agreement about paying the boabs nor monthly maintenance fees -- so technically we don't need to pay anything in addition to utilities (water, electricity, phone ect..) and rent.
> 
> ...


The bowab wages are informal and normally agreed by all the residents in that building there is no legal contract..

Ensure *you *check the water, gas and electric meters in your building, create a tracker in excel documenting the readings and when you paid

The electric and gas bills should be on an official *STAMPED* bill that shows the rate and consumption, if not establish the rate from the utility company based on your consumption, if you have an official bill ensure the address relates to your apartment and not someone elses, that is another white scam..

Remove your own rubbish and place it in the skip..

Police men make about 400 - 600LE per month...


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## CatMandoo (Dec 16, 2011)

900 LE a month. WOW the guys a millionaire by now!
Seriously, that money probably goes to support his aging parents, wife, and kids. Just how far do you think that goes?

That's if all 6 flat residents acutally pay him each month.


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## canuck2010 (Jan 13, 2010)

Well where do you draw the line? There are thousands of people with university degrees who are unemployed.


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## CatMandoo (Dec 16, 2011)

canuck2010 said:


> Well where do you draw the line? There are thousands of people with university degrees who are unemployed.


 I don't know Canuck, it's really sad imho. I was reading the thread about starting up a small business, and couldn't help but think about Egyptians and what they are paid. Those who are fortunate enough, leave the country and work elsewheres, for a salary that actually allows them to support their family.

The economic situation here is so dire, and is only going to get worse.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I actually don't mind giving extra but I do object to paying for nothing,


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## PaulAshton (Nov 18, 2011)

marimar said:


> We pay less than 50LE per month for electric,water and gas combined and we are a family of four so I would say that the agreement you have with the owner of 150 Le per month for all bills is plenty. Like someone said before sometimes bowebs try to up their wages by asking people, especially foreigners for extras. It's up to you if you pay or not, if it's not in your agreement you shouldn't feel obliged to pay. Giving tips every now and again is good to keep a good relationship with the boweb.
> If it becomes too regular, talk to your landlord.


For a family of 3 I am paying:

Gas: 30LE per month (metered and actual reading)
Electric 20 - 30LE per month (metered and actual reading)
Water 160LE (based on 8 cubic meters, this will reduce to 55LE when we have a mains supply)
His wages 100LE 

There is still the aspect of a "missing" 20 cubic meters 400LE worth from "his" reading apparently a little mistake of him saying there was a mistake between *.* (which is zero) and *O* which is a 5 in arabic, I never paid it and started fresh...

Apparently he was deeply offended I challenged it, well he will be doing this :confused2: when the water company come to give me my mains supply at 6.9LE per cubic exactly what he pays to fill the tank from *HIS* mains supply on his property next door..he thought he could be clever and hide his water meter under a bucket and say it was "trucked in" and I was getting a "good price" and of course shook my hand and exact words "you are my brother and friend, welcome to Sharm" yahhhhh right...

I hold no bad feelings he is not a millionaire and living hand to mouth, he can lack motivation which is probably part of the job description, the only part of the bowab job description he does not fill is to be creepy like some I have come across


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## marenostrum (Feb 19, 2011)

Arabian 150 LE is plenty of money. I think the problem could be that the bowab finds it easier to get the money from you rather than ask the landlord. Simple as that really. Make it more difficult next time and you won't get pestered anymore.

Bear in mind that you are lucky in having a lift that has a keypad in rather than having to connect two wires by hand to operate a lift. Seen many of these even in upmarket areas like Maadi and Zamalek. Your Bowab sounds like he does some work at least.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

canuck2010 said:


> Well where do you draw the line? There are thousands of people with university degrees who are unemployed.


This is true, however the quality of that degree often leaves a lot to be desired.

This article is a prime example:

Investigations into 28 cases of breast cancer in one village | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt
_
Investigations into 28 cases of breast cancer in one village

Red Sea Governor Mahmoud Hafez has decided to form a medical committee to investigate a complaint submitted to him by the residents of the Om al-Howaytat village following 28 reported cases of breast cancer in the village. The village is located in Safaga Governorate

The governor requested all the villagers to be examined and any suspected sources of pollution to be reported.

“We’ll collect samples from the drinking and sewage water,” said Alaa Abul Azm, undersecretary of the Health Ministry, suggesting that patients might have been afflicted with disease by working in phosphate mines.

A village resident claimed a company had disposed hazardous waste that harbor authorities refused to export.

“It’s no joke that 28 out of 3000 villagers get breast cancer,” said Dr. Mohamed Shaalan, head of the Breast Cancer Foundation of Egypt. He ruled out the suggestion that phosphate mines were the culprit. “Breast cancer can come from insecticides or marriage between cousins,” he explained._

“Breast cancer can come from insecticides or marriage between cousins”

:confused2:


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

Hi all, thanks so so much, for all your replies - plenty of food for thought  Especially you, Paul  Well, Yes I pay the Bowab 150le per month for all bills and his wages and to be honest I never expected any 'extras' along the way. I NEVER send him on errands, he NEVER 'does' anything for me personally, not even carry my shopping bags - I do everything myself, as I did in London. Having the Bowab has not made any difference in my life whatsoever, apart from watch when I come in and out. Maybe its because I do not send him on errands, and hence he does not benefit from me financially in any other way, apart from his wages. Yes, he does take my rubbish down, which I leave outside the front door of my apartment - that's it. My building is very big and there are at least 2-3 apartments per floor and there are 12 floors. He does seem to run around for others in the building. To be honest, I think I need to understand what the scope of the bowabs job is - I see him most times sitting in his apartment in the basement watching TV, doing nothing, or chatting to other Bowabs in the same street. I really do not know what I 'errands' I should be running him on - I live alone, so most things I do myself. I dont know! Thanks so much for the advise, everyone!


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

Another thing I want to add, is that my teachers at the University told us once, that the Bowabs here are in fact a lot richer then people think. She said that her bowab is in fact richer then she is! Yet they like to live a life like a pauper as they earn a lot that way, through peoples' 'sympathies'. When I had my wallet stolen, his wife told me that if I needed any cash, whether it was 10le, 100le, or even a thousand then she can give it to me. Of course I didnt take any from her and even if I asked, I doubt whether she would give it to me, but I get the impression that she was trying to 'tell' me something like 'I am not a typical poor bowab' or whatever. His kids go to school and they speak to me in 'proper' Arabic - they visit their home town regularly and they wear normal clothes... they do not look poor.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

If bawabing for a living is actually a good job with lots of money to be made, there would be a line out the door to apply for those jobs. Sadly, it's not, and probably falls into the same category of rumors such as beggars being found with millions of LE in their flats after their death.

In Egypt's class-based society, being a bawab isn't at the top of the "very important positions" list. That's not to say there isn't some pride involved because, as you can see with your bawab's family, they aren't all creepy.

What's his job? He keeps the building cleaned and sees to it that it's maintained. He also collects for utilities and community expenses (repairs, decoration, etc.). If there isn't a doorman, he's in charge of watching the comings and goings and making sure nobody comes in that shouldn't be there.

A clever bawab can make a bit of money doing side jobs, like running errands, finding and supervising maintenance men, and ... dusting cars.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

ArabianNights said:


> Another thing I want to add, is that my teachers at the University told us once, that the Bowabs here are in fact a lot richer then people think. She said that her bowab is in fact richer then she is! Yet they like to live a life like a pauper as they earn a lot that way, through peoples' 'sympathies'. When I had my wallet stolen, his wife told me that if I needed any cash, whether it was 10le, 100le, or even a thousand then she can give it to me. Of course I didnt take any from her and even if I asked, I doubt whether she would give it to me, but I get the impression that she was trying to 'tell' me something like 'I am not a typical poor bowab' or whatever. His kids go to school and they speak to me in 'proper' Arabic - they visit their home town regularly and they wear normal clothes... they do not look poor.




How would your teacher would know that her bowab is richer than her?
We have about 6 bowabs in my building and admittedly they seem to do sod all other than run around after the very influential Egyptian that lives above me but I would never class any of them rich.. one comes from Aswan and he goes home to get his wife pregnant and help at harvest time, I also suspect he sells bread on the side as I once went to where he sleeps and without exaggeration there must have been 200 baladi loaves laying on a mat. I don\t grudge them/him any money that they can earn as many of them leave their families behind to try and earn a buck to send home.


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## CatMandoo (Dec 16, 2011)

expatagogo said:


> “Breast cancer can come from insecticides or marriage between cousins”
> 
> :confused2:


The english version is translated from the Arabic website. I wonder if the person who did the translation made the mistake of providing an inaccurate translation. Maybe the "between cousins" thing was actually "genetics" or something similar. Who knows, but it just may be a possibility.


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> How would your teacher would know that her bowab is richer than her?


I have no idea. Maybe he told her.




> We have about 6 bowabs in my building and admittedly they seem to do sod all other than run around after the very influential Egyptian that lives above me but I would never class any of them rich.. one comes from Aswan and he goes home to get his wife pregnant and help at harvest time, I also suspect he sells bread on the side as I once went to where he sleeps and without exaggeration there must have been 200 baladi loaves laying on a mat. I don\t grudge them/him any money that they can earn as many of them leave their families behind to try and earn a buck to send home.


Yes, I agree.


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

CatMandoo said:


> The english version is translated from the Arabic website. I wonder if the person who did the translation made the mistake of providing an inaccurate translation. Maybe the "between cousins" thing was actually "genetics" or something similar. Who knows, but it just may be a possibility.


I have no idea what cancer between cousins has anything to do with Bowabs. Although my bowab is married to his cousin.


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## SHendra (Oct 18, 2010)

Arabian by your post you've either got a twin bowab of my old one of your got him lol. My old building it was you pay a maintence fee 2 times a year towards the cost of running the building (lights etc). You then had the choice to give the bowab a salary each month.. some were paying low as just 5LE right upto around 50LE, then a few LE per errand wise. A few was not paying anything.. and annoyingly they'd were the first ones to complain if the lift was not working or their area of the building was not cleaned first! 

On many occassions the lift did breakdown and engineers had to come to do a repair work. On every occassion each flat was expected to pay something towards it. Never minded that I lived on the 8 floor of course I wanted a lift to work!! But anyway half the building would not pay their way we was always waiting longer than needed. In end the same happend in my building as yours we made the lift so only those who paid the cost of running/repairs would have access and we were given keys. Took this to get the ones refusing to pay to well pay up! lol. Other extras been things like replacement of locks on main door, which they did every few months and replacement of the watertank from time to time. 

In what I was led to believe this was infact all normal. And it is. I use to get a little annoyed with my bowab he would get his kids to do his errands/jobs for him. Tried to get them to do mine one time but I snapped got it told to him either he does it OR if it to be his children then they will be the ones to get 50% of what I pay him each month but in form of schoolbooks etc! He never did send his kids.. prol a good job to.. I didn't realise how expensive these books can be!! (not that I'd of minded!)


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