# Where and what property to buy?



## Quanzix

Hi Everyone,

We are considering buying property in Portugal/Spain, mainly because of the climate. We haven't done a lot of research yet, 14-25 degrees appeals to me as well as living near the sea/ocean in quiet secluded area where I don't even know who my neighbours are, so I'm considering Sagres, Madeira, Sao Miguel. To the lesser extent north shore of Spain. Any suggestions on where to buy and what (land/plot/house). What does it take (paperwork wise mainly) to convert land to house. Any different than plot?
Coming from Canada, will most likely work remotely.

Any suggestions/, proes and cons? Things to watch for geo/weather/buroucracy wise? Planning to come for a visit this Christmas to Sao Miguel and mainland

Thanks in advance!


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## MrBife

Quanzix said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> We are considering buying property in Portugal/Spain, mainly because of the climate. We haven't done a lot of research yet, 14-25 degrees appeals to me as well as living near the sea/ocean in quiet secluded area where I don't even know who my neighbours are, so I'm considering Sagres, Madeira, Sao Miguel. To the lesser extent north shore of Spain. Any suggestions on where to buy and what (land/plot/house). What does it take (paperwork wise mainly) to convert land to house. Any different than plot?
> Coming from Canada, will most likely work remotely.
> 
> Any suggestions/, proes and cons? Things to watch for geo/weather/buroucracy wise? Planning to come for a visit this Christmas to Sao Miguel and mainland
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Why not include Southern France, Italy, Cyprus, the Canary Islands and perhaps Morocco as well. When you have been to each and decided where you want to settle then it would be possible to give you some specific information. Oh - and there are some good deals in Albania and Croatia right now - the weather is good there too. 

Armchair property research seems to be a bit of a speciality in Canada and the US, its a fun thing to do during the cold winter months and I get the feeling that most never make the move anyway.


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## Strontium

Quanzix said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> We are considering buying property in Portugal/Spain, mainly because of the climate. We haven't done a lot of research yet, 14-25 degrees appeals to me as well as living near the sea/ocean in quiet secluded area where I don't even know who my neighbours are, so I'm considering Sagres, Madeira, Sao Miguel. To the lesser extent north shore of Spain. Any suggestions on where to buy and what (land/plot/house). What does it take (paperwork wise mainly) to convert land to house. Any different than plot?
> Coming from Canada, will most likely work remotely.
> 
> Any suggestions/, proes and cons? Things to watch for geo/weather/buroucracy wise? Planning to come for a visit this Christmas to Sao Miguel and mainland
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Have you done any research? Taking mainland Portugal 14-25 C suggests your thermometer is broken.


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## smudges

I knew someone whose family came from Santiago de Compostela.....it snows there in winter. Really cold and vile apparently. North shore of Spain.


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## Quanzix

Didn't see multiple replies... Will stop typing behind the wheel


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## Quanzix

MrBife said:


> Why not include Southern France, Italy, Cyprus, the Canary Islands and perhaps Morocco as well. When you have been to each and decided where you want to settle then it would be possible to give you some specific information. Oh - and there are some good deals in Albania and Croatia right now - the weather is good there too.
> 
> Armchair property research seems to be a bit of a speciality in Canada and the US, its a fun thing to do during the cold winter months and I get the feeling that most never make the move anyway.


MrBife, are you recommending to review other countries (obviously tastes are different) and I'm not familiar with Morocco or Southern France, but what climatemp.com tells me it gets pretty hot in the summer in Albania or Croatia, upto around 30. Same source tells me in Sagres / Madeira / Sao Miguel its 14-25, is that close to reality?

I'm definitely reviewing Tenerife as well. So in terms of quality of living, property / land prices and potential, obviously your choice was Portugal?


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## Jormedawson

Personally i would hire a campervan/motorhome and tour around. Your never going to find a reply or anything that convinces you unless you experience it for yourself. Also depends what you want. do you want beach, or mountains? city or rural? 

Spain is great for climate, i was near Jaen Spain in Andalucia. got up to 50 degrees in Summer and around 15-20 in winter. lovely! 

Spanish climate i feel, & its only my opinion, is better than Portugals. Portugal gets battered a lot by the Atlantic storms and Spain misses out on this. Lisbon becomes hummid & a bit dismal in the winter. Never felt this in spain.


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## travelling-man

A very large part of PT sees occasional but more or less annual highs of 40+ C


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## Quanzix

Jormedawson said:


> Personally i would hire a campervan/motorhome and tour around. Your never going to find a reply or anything that convinces you unless you experience it for yourself. Also depends what you want. do you want beach, or mountains? city or rural?
> 
> Spain is great for climate, i was near Jaen Spain in Andalucia. got up to 50 degrees in Summer and around 15-20 in winter. lovely!
> 
> Spanish climate i feel, & its only my opinion, is better than Portugals. Portugal gets battered a lot by the Atlantic storms and Spain misses out on this. Lisbon becomes hummid & a bit dismal in the winter. Never felt this in spain.


... And I agree, experiencing first hand is much better, thus I'm trying to first gather undeniable facts regarding prices, weather, considerations, etc prior to the trip. I do understand those countries' temperature varies largely, hence I'm only focusing on areas mentioned above, rural and combined with the beach would be lovely


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## Jormedawson

Have a look at some websites to look for prices and areas. Look at google maps and find areas and then check images etc.... then when you see somewhere you like, put the name in the classifieds website to check prices? iv put the normal ones below for you. Personally i think you would like the beach area along the coast from Lisbon up to Porto. Places like Ericeira, Peniche, Figueira da Foz are all lovely. 

A few links to the classifieds most used in Portugal. they seem to be the main ones but will change from area to area. First 3 are classifieds like Gumtree in the UK. Other 2 are just normal estate agents.

www.olx.pt

Anúncios grátis, classificados grátis: carros usados, motas usadas, casas, apartamentos e produtos usados de ocasião - CustoJusto.pt

Casa.Sapo.pt - Portal Nacional de Imobiliário

.: Casas, apartamentos ou moradias, para comprar ou vender casa, contacte-nos! :.

ERA® Imobiliária - Portugal


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## Quanzix

Jormedawson said:


> Have a look at some websites to look for prices and areas. Look at google maps and find areas and then check images etc.... then when you see somewhere you like, put the name in the classifieds website to check prices? iv put the normal ones below for you. Personally i think you would like the beach area along the coast from Lisbon up to Porto. Places like Ericeira, Peniche, Figueira da Foz are all lovely.
> 
> A few links to the classifieds most used in Portugal. they seem to be the main ones but will change from area to area. First 3 are classifieds like Gumtree in the UK. Other 2 are just normal estate agents.
> 
> www.olx.pt
> 
> Anúncios grátis, classificados grátis: carros usados, motas usadas, casas, apartamentos e produtos usados de ocasião - CustoJusto.pt
> 
> Casa.Sapo.pt - Portal Nacional de Imobiliário
> 
> .: Casas, apartamentos ou moradias, para comprar ou vender casa, contacte-nos! :.
> 
> ERA® Imobiliária - Portugal



Thanks! I honestly wasn't even planning to visit area north of Lisbon, not being specifically impressed about weather facts. Are you saying its a nice area for a beach visit or living all year round?

Thanks


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## Jormedawson

I grew up in Tomar. So i can only give you info about this area. it was lovely. Very local and untouristy. 1hr to the beach, Nazare if i remember rightly. I would have thought that the weather will only get worse as you go north so Santiago etc will be cold in the winter months.

Im sure someone more educated & with more experience of living along the areas you mentioned will come along.


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## DonBowes

Quanzix said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> We are considering buying property in Portugal/Spain, mainly because of the climate. We haven't done a lot of research yet, 14-25 degrees appeals to me as well as living near the sea/ocean in quiet secluded area where I don't even know who my neighbours are, so I'm considering Sagres, Madeira, Sao Miguel. To the lesser extent north shore of Spain. Any suggestions on where to buy and what (land/plot/house). What does it take (paperwork wise mainly) to convert land to house. Any different than plot?
> Coming from Canada, will most likely work remotely.
> 
> Any suggestions/, proes and cons? Things to watch for geo/weather/buroucracy wise? Planning to come for a visit this Christmas to Sao Miguel and mainland
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I joined expatforum less than an hour ago and found your post immediately.

I am stuck by our simularities. My wife and I live in Canada and were/are considering buying and living in property on the Costa del Sol near Malaga. To that end, we are currently in Nerja (since May 30) and will relocate to Malaga tomorrow for 4 days before returning home.
Per MrBife: "Armchair property research seems to be a bit of a speciality in Canada and the US, its a fun thing to do during the cold winter months and I get the feeling that most never make the move anyway."
So what? I am not in an armchair but rather in a plastic chair on a patio in southern Spain. I may not make the move either but certainly want to investigate options. Also, June is hardly "cold winter months" in Canada.

So why am I on expatforum Portugal? We have been exploring the area between here and Malaga (villages inland near the coast but not on it) and have seen many lovely, charming spots. Earlier this morning, I was planning today's itinerary and was suddenly overcome with the feeling that perhaps this is not where I want to live. Not sure why.

On our flights to Malaga we inadvertently spent 24 hours in Lisbon (long story) and through making new flight arrangements, baggage handling, taking the Metro and a night in a hotel were impressed by the efficiency, courtesy and helpfulness of the people we encountered.

So this morning, it occurred to me that we should consider Portugal which was never on our radar.

We have been well treated here and have enjoyed ourselves so have no complaints. Just a vague unease that came up only this morning.

So with all that, I would like to swap notes with you on your findings as it appears we are on the same page.


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## Kingfibber

DonBowes said:


> I joined expatforum less than an hour ago and found your post immediately. I am stuck by our simularities. My wife and I live in Canada and were/are considering buying and living in property on the Costa del Sol near Malaga. To that end, we are currently in Nerja (since May 30) and will relocate to Malaga tomorrow for 4 days before returning home. Per MrBife: "Armchair property research seems to be a bit of a speciality in Canada and the US, its a fun thing to do during the cold winter months and I get the feeling that most never make the move anyway." So what? I am not in an armchair but rather in a plastic chair on a patio in southern Spain. I may not make the move either but certainly want to investigate options. Also, June is hardly "cold winter months" in Canada. So why am I on expatforum Portugal? We have been exploring the area between here and Malaga (villages inland near the coast but not on it) and have seen many lovely, charming spots. Earlier this morning, I was planning today's itinerary and was suddenly overcome with the feeling that perhaps this is not where I want to live. Not sure why. On our flights to Malaga we inadvertently spent 24 hours in Lisbon (long story) and through making new flight arrangements, baggage handling, taking the Metro and a night in a hotel were impressed by the efficiency, courtesy and helpfulness of the people we encountered. So this morning, it occurred to me that we should consider Portugal which was never on our radar. We have been well treated here and have enjoyed ourselves so have no complaints. Just a vague unease that came up only this morning. So with all that, I would like to swap notes with you on your findings as it appears we are on the same page.


Hi DonBowes

we were in the same position exactly 4 years ago. We had found a property in Competa in the hills above Nerja, & were ready to sign on the dotted line. But we didn't. Same as you, something just did not feel right. We walked away & abandoned the purchase. I could not tell you exactly why. I was looking for a place I had imagined, & it just wasn't quite right. Spain was almost there, but not 100%. We had spent about 8 years looking at Italy, Spain, Mexico, South Africa, & many other places, & at this point we almost gave up.
We took a year off from seriously looking, until at Christmas I found a site showing property in Central Portugal. We booked a flight for February, arranged to see 3 properties. We bought the third property we viewed 2 days later. For us Central Portugal has everything we were looking for. Strangely, I now commute between Calgary (Canada), Beverley (UK) which is home, & Casas Novas (Central Portugal), on a very regular basis. Do yourself a favour & spend some time getting off the beaten track in Portugal. The place, the people, the climate, all very agreeable. 
Yes, Spain may be warmer in the winter, but Portugal would be my choice everytime.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## DonBowes

Kingfibber said:


> Hi DonBowes
> 
> we were in the same position exactly 4 years ago. We had found a property in Competa in the hills above Nerja, & were ready to sign on the dotted line. But we didn't. Same as you, something just did not feel right. We walked away & abandoned the purchase. I could not tell you exactly why. I was looking for a place I had imagined, & it just wasn't quite right. Spain was almost there, but not 100%. We had spent about 8 years looking at Italy, Spain, Mexico, South Africa, & many other places, & at this point we almost gave up.
> We took a year off from seriously looking, until at Christmas I found a site showing property in Central Portugal. We booked a flight for February, arranged to see 3 properties. We bought the third property we viewed 2 days later. For us Central Portugal has everything we were looking for. Strangely, I now commute between Calgary (Canada), Beverley (UK) which is home, & Casas Novas (Central Portugal), on a very regular basis. Do yourself a favour & spend some time getting off the beaten track in Portugal. The place, the people, the climate, all very agreeable.
> Yes, Spain may be warmer in the winter, but Portugal would be my choice everytime.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


Hi Kingfibber,
Thank you for your response. We also checked out Competa, Vinuella and, of course, Frigliana. They all just didn't quite fit. We are on our last full day here in Malaga and fly home tomorrow (Calgary BTW). I haven't done any more exploration of Portugal but intend to do more soon.
Perhaps we can meet face to face.
I have made a tentative booking for Portugal in September.
What do you think will happen to property values if the Brexit vote if in favour of leaving?


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## travelling-man

I don't think a Brexit vote will affect PT property prices at all...... Come to that, I don't think it'll affect Brit ex pats living here either.


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## Glendem4

Algarve is great if you are weather driven and beach life is important. We want the real Portuguese experience and prefer green rolling countryside. That is why we are focussed on area around Coimbra, Portugal third city. Where ever you choose you will find the Portuguese very friendly. Portugal is One of UK longest allies and the cost of living is very cheap. E.g. Eating out at an average restaurant for two costs £40 (approx 50 euro) in UK, where as you can get the same meal for around 30 euro in Portugal, 40% cheaper.

Other things to consider are access to local amenities and social services like doctor, dentist, hospital. Good luck in your search.
Mark


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## Kingfibber

Hi DonBowes,

I think the only effect on property if Brexit becomes reality is that UK Property value will take a knock.
Very little effect on European property values I suspect.
Happy to meet up in Calgary for a coffee or a beer, I return end of June, so will msg you then?
Hope you had a safe journey home!

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## brodev

I lived in Costa Del Sol for approx 15 years and enjoyed every minute. My daughter met and married a Portuguese man and then we had grandchildren in Lisbon. Too far for a weekend visit. Because I enjoyed CDS so much I was reluctant to move but the pull of the grand kids was too much and we moved to Algarve. I have been very pleasantly surprised. The Portuguese people we have met are so much friendlier than the Spanish (and they were very nice). The weather is a bit cooler in Algarve and the lifestyle is different. In Spain at night 10pm was a good time to start the evening out. In Portugal at 10pm the night is coming to an end. Most things are a bit dearer in Portugal especially petrol and gas but food and eating out are cheaper. On the down side I cannot pick up the language as every time I try to speak Portuguese they very friendly reply in perfect English. I have been here 9 years now and I would be reluctant to return to CDS


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## travelling-man

brodev said:


> I lived in Costa Del Sol for approx 15 years and enjoyed every minute. My daughter met and married a Portuguese man and then we had grandchildren in Lisbon. Too far for a weekend visit. Because I enjoyed CDS so much I was reluctant to move but the pull of the grand kids was too much and we moved to Algarve. I have been very pleasantly surprised. The Portuguese people we have met are so much friendlier than the Spanish (and they were very nice). The weather is a bit cooler in Algarve and the lifestyle is different. In Spain at night 10pm was a good time to start the evening out. *In Portugal at 10pm the night is coming to an end.* Most things are a bit dearer in Portugal especially petrol and gas but food and eating out are cheaper. On the down side I cannot pick up the language as every time I try to speak Portuguese they very friendly reply in perfect English. I have been here 9 years now and I would be reluctant to return to CDS


Maybe that varies by area........ in mine (Figueiro Dos Vinhos) many things such as festas etc don't kick off until after 2100 hours at the earliest & most restaurants don't open until 1900 at least. :confused2:


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## MrBife

travelling-man said:


> Maybe that varies by area........ in mine (Figueiro Dos Vinhos) many things such as festas etc don't kick off until after 2100 hours at the earliest & most restaurants don't open until 1900 at least. :confused2:


My area too ! When I have the energy (much less often now I am of a more sensible age !) I go to music venues that don't open until midnight, get going about 2am and serve breakfast from 7am. - Location ? ... Algarve

This whole thread is so full of misinformed assumptions


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## travelling-man

Ja, now I'm an old greybeard, the last thing I want to do is start partying at that time of night. lol


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## Strontium

It's a summer thing all over Iberia, be it Salamanca or Tomar or the public squares of Madrid and Lisbon, hot sultry days mean the late late eveings and early mornings are cooler to be out so that's when we party. Not unusual for 5 year olds to be playing tag between the pavement restaurants in old Tomar at midnight. In the wet wet winter a lot of places are closed so summer is party time. Obviously if you sit indoors with the aircon on streaming the BBC you may not notice this but if you do interwebs search for vids of Portuguese fiestas you'll find out what is going on.


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## Jormedawson

MrBife said:


> This whole thread is so full of misinformed assumptions


I really dislike this part of your reply.... Maybe it is just people replying with their own experiences rather than "misinformed assumptions"?


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## Jormedawson

brodev said:


> I lived in Costa Del Sol for approx 15 years and enjoyed every minute. My daughter met and married a Portuguese man and then we had grandchildren in Lisbon. Too far for a weekend visit. Because I enjoyed CDS so much I was reluctant to move but the pull of the grand kids was too much and we moved to Algarve. I have been very pleasantly surprised. The Portuguese people we have met are so much friendlier than the Spanish (and they were very nice). The weather is a bit cooler in Algarve and the lifestyle is different. In Spain at night 10pm was a good time to start the evening out. In Portugal at 10pm the night is coming to an end. Most things are a bit dearer in Portugal especially petrol and gas but food and eating out are cheaper. On the down side I cannot pick up the language as every time I try to speak Portuguese they very friendly reply in perfect English. I have been here 9 years now and I would be reluctant to return to CDS


Totally agree with you on your points. The Portuguese are more conservative compared to the Spanish. I used to live in Andujar, Andalucia. I used to finish teaching at 10pm and go out around 11pm. My Spanish friends used to go out most week days/nights, non stop partying until 6am ish and then head to work at around 10am! crazy! i do love the spanish zest for life. Life is one big party whereas Portuguese are a little more responsible! However i do agree with others that most things start to kick off around 9-10 ish and continue through the night. It will vary though. Some parts of Almada close at 10pm whereas if you head to Cacilhas (the old part of Almada) or head to Lisbon etc... then everything will only just be starting. I used to live in Messines & Silves in the Algarve and things where completely different to,for instance, Albufeira. 

The Portuguese standard of English is very good. Mostly because they dont dub movies or series that are shown on TV so they have more exposure to the language. Spanish TV is all dubbed and i think they have just passed a law in which they are cutting dubbing down to bring levels of English up.


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## DonBowes

I screwed up this post.


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## DonBowes

Kingfibber said:


> Hi DonBowes,
> 
> I think the only effect on property if Brexit becomes reality is that UK Property value will take a knock.
> Very little effect on European property values I suspect.
> Happy to meet up in Calgary for a coffee or a beer, I return end of June, so will msg you then?
> Hope you had a safe journey home!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


Hi Kingfibber,
I will enjoy a coffee or beer with you. Cell is 4036602945


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