# Trying to choose the right time



## Jancomper (Jan 27, 2013)

For the past 20 years we have holidayed in Cyprus as often as we have been able to afford it and dreamed and dreamed of living there when we both retire and receive our basic state pensions I am 56 and my OH is 57. 

He is self employed in the building trade but finds it harder physically to do his job every year and the present economic slump means he now often goes 3 or 4 weeks at a time without any work. I have been receiving incapacity benefit for 7 years but have recently had it stopped due to the cutbacks and I now get nothing - as he is self employed he is expected to keep both of us, I'm not entitled to even get jobseekers allowance - our standard of living is dropping and although not struggling yet we have now spent what little savings we did have, on day to day expenses.

The main reason we want to move is the climate and huge health benefits it brings to us both, we both feel 20 years younger the second we stpe foot on Cyprus soil and age painfully as we step off the plane back in UK - you can't live life like that

We have no family or dependants to hold us back. The only funding we have is our property in the UK not worth a huge sum maybe £150k.

But we have nobody to leave it to so we keep thinking about selling it or renting it and moving to Cyprus - but we find it difficult to decide whether to rent our uk home out (we'd get about £550 a month) and rent a property in Cyprus which would then mean we'd need to earn some kind of income there. Or sell it and rent and live on the remains of our cash for as long as we can - we keep saying we can't take it with us and its all we've got to show for a life of hard work we should try and make it finally buy us what we really need - a life unfettered by illness exacerbated by ill health caused by the climate, or sell it and buy a cheaper property in Cyprus and live on the rest in the meantime.

We have a VERY modest lifestyle and would be happy to live an even more frugal existense to benefit from the health side of living in a warmer dryer climate - don't drink or smoke, don't spend much at all part from food and bills. 

But every time we do the sums it seems like now isn't the right time to move, or we just haven't got enough funds - we need to wait until we are getting our old age pensions - I fear that if we wait any longer we'll never make the move and just curl up and die here in the cold one day.

When I read peoples stories who have moved they all seem to have some kind of savings or investment to fall back on or fund their move and I worry that we are just being unrealistic and its really never going to be an option.

Just putting my thoughts down in writing and hoping for some input from anyone who has sucessfully moved to Cyprus with a limited budget lik eours and whether they've succeeeded.


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## PatandDave (Jul 15, 2012)

Hello! 
Me and my hubby are about to make our move to Cyprus, just waiting for the house to sell, and have been planning it for years! If you read through past threads you will see that jobs are very difficult to come by! I will turn 50 soon and my hubby 58.He gets his company pension and I'm about to be medically retired from my job and will have my company pension, we also have investments, savings etc. My point being that we know we will be able to live comfortably without worrying. I am nervous about making the move, even though I know we can easily finance it! Having said that we have friends in Cyprus that just packed up and left the UK with nothing but their furniture and 2 yrs later are both working and love their new life! 
Good luck with whatever you decide, and do take time to read through all the past threads, I look upon it as my bible!! 
Pat


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## Mycroft (Sep 9, 2009)

Life here can be difficult if you do not have sufficient funds. Cyprus is waiting for a possibly bail out from the EU equivalent to its annual GDP and there are many people here way below the bread line.

There is no social security unless you have paid into the Cyprus system and you will also have to pay for healthcare until you are in receipt of a UK State pension. (that may change in the near future as a result of the bail out conditions set by the EU) and you will need private health insurance to get residence as you are below UK state pension age. This will be expensive if you have pre existing conditions, and they may not cover them at all. 

Unless you speak Cypriot Greek fluently the likely hood of getting a job is remote, and you will be competing with other EU nationals, of which there are hundreds, and wages are very low in comparison to UK (600 - 800 Euros a month is considered a good wage for most) 

However you need to decide for yourself, there are a lot of posts giving different points of view, if you feel the time is right go for it, I suggest that you rent somewhere for 6 months and see if it is the right decision, but have a fall back in case it does not work out and you need to return to UK. 


Good luck, Kind regards.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I agree with Mycroft that it would be wise to come for 6 months to a year to see how things go. Don't sell your Uk home until you know for sure that you can make a go of it in Cyprus. It would be good to have something to return to in the Uk if things don't work out here. Treat it as an adventure and take it from there depending on how things work out.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Incidentally, if you find work here and your employer pays social insurance for you you can then use the state health care. You may still have to pay a contribution depending on earnings but it would be a lot less than going private.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2013)

Mycroft said:


> Life here can be difficult if you do not have sufficient funds. Cyprus is waiting for a possibly bail out from the EU equivalent to its annual GDP and there are many people here way below the bread line.
> 
> There is no social security unless you have paid into the Cyprus system and you will also have to pay for healthcare until you are in receipt of a UK State pension. (that may change in the near future as a result of the bail out conditions set by the EU) and you will need private health insurance to get residence as you are below UK state pension age. This will be expensive if you have pre existing conditions, and they may not cover them at all.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify. Perhaps I misunderstand the post but regarding to healthcare it is already a must to have private insurance to get a Residence Permit if you don't pay in to the Social fund, either as employed or self-employed

Anders


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## Mycroft (Sep 9, 2009)

If you are in receipt of a UK state pension you show your form (S1) from UK to immigration when applying for a residents permit, you do not need private health insurance, as UK reimburses Cyprus for your state health care. (immigration may insist that you also have private insurance; this is not necessary and is against the EU COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 1408/71 directive.) However I do not know if this applies to other nationalities.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2013)

Mycroft said:


> If you are in receipt of a UK state pension you show your form (S1) from UK to immigration when applying for a residents permit, you do not need private health insurance, as UK reimburses Cyprus for your state health care. (immigration may insist that you also have private insurance; this is not necessary and is against the EU COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 1408/71 directive.) However I do not know if this applies to other nationalities.


It apply to all EU citizens in all EU countries but in this case no one of them has state pension, meaning that they has to have private health insurance, if they will not work.

Anders


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## Mycroft (Sep 9, 2009)

As I said in my original post " _There is no social security unless you have paid into the Cyprus system and you will also have to pay for healthcare until you are in receipt of a UK State pension.and you will need private health insurance to get residence as you are below UK state pension age _


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2013)

Mycroft said:


> As I said in my original post " _There is no social security unless you have paid into the Cyprus system and you will also have to pay for healthcare until you are in receipt of a UK State pension.and you will need private health insurance to get residence as you are below UK state pension age _


Then what does this line mean?

"There is no social security unless you have paid into the Cyprus system and you will also have to pay for healthcare until you are in receipt of a UK State pension. (that may change in the near future as a result of the bail out conditions set by the EU)"

Anders


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## Mycroft (Sep 9, 2009)

There are thoughts ( and these are only vague at present) that all residents ( including some that are at present do not pay for healthcare for example those UK ex-pats who are in receipt of a UK state pension), may in future have to pay something towards for state healthcare, for example a visit to A&E.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2013)

Mycroft said:


> There are thoughts ( and these are only vague at present) that all residents ( including some that are at present do not pay for healthcare for example those UK ex-pats who are in receipt of a UK state pension), may in future have to pay something towards for state healthcare, for example a visit to A&E.


Its interesting even if I think it will be impossible to do. As an EU citizen you have the same right as the own citizens of a country to get healthcare, and to the same costs. How ever what I saw was that all public healthcare will cost more, also prescription drugs. But only if all have the same rules, expats or Cypriots. But what they can probably do is to lower the income level from where you have to pay part of the Healthcare. This is extremely generous today.


Anders


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## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

Jancomper said:


> For the past 20 years we have holidayed in Cyprus as often as we have been able to afford it and dreamed and dreamed of living there when we both retire and receive our basic state pensions I am 56 and my OH is 57.
> 
> He is self employed in the building trade but finds it harder physically to do his job every year and the present economic slump means he now often goes 3 or 4 weeks at a time without any work. I have been receiving incapacity benefit for 7 years but have recently had it stopped due to the cutbacks and I now get nothing - as he is self employed he is expected to keep both of us, I'm not entitled to even get jobseekers allowance - our standard of living is dropping and although not struggling yet we have now spent what little savings we did have, on day to day expenses.
> 
> ...


I felt rather uncomfortable reading your post, because the one thing that comes up time and time again on these forums is the desire of people to move to Cyprus without the financial backing necessary. 

Please don't feel as if I, and other forum members, are pouring cold water on your dreams - because that isn't the case. The brutal truth about living in Cyprus is that it does cost a fair bit to live here, and I am not talking about an extravagant lifestyle where you dine out five times a week. Costs are rising quite quickly here at the moment, as we are noticing just with our weekly shopping. Fuel costs as well are rising as well, which we are beginning to notice. With the imposition of who knows what if and when Cyprus does get a bailout, I cannot see the cost of living going anything but up in the foreseeable future.

All the positive benefits you mention with regard to living here are what attracts people to Cyprus. There is anecdotal evidence that many people are packing up and returning to the UK, and our removal firm (for the Cyprus end of the journey) told us that they have never been busier moving people back to the UK. The reason behind many of the moves, according to the foreman on the vans, was that people could no longer afford to live out here with just pensions to fall back on. 

Set against that, we have arrived after many months of planning and research, and our expenditure is about the same as it was in the UK - it's just that some things are much, much cheaper (rent for example) and some things are ridiculously expensive (or so it seems). Many of the spreadsheets I compiled in the UK have had to be adapted in the light of the real experience of living here.

I would not sell your UK house, because that would be a final burning of bridges. Rent it if you can, and the sum you quoted would cover your rent, community charge, water and probably your Internet/telephone - depending on what sort of property you wanted to live in. After that, given a very careful approach to using electricity (and everyone I know is really careful with that), your other living costs will be about the same as living in the UK. we calculate that our electricity costs (added to LPG for the portable heater we use in winter) will be about the same as our gas/electricity usage in the UK. The only difference was that we were heating a large one-bedroomed apartment in the UK, whereas here we have a three-bedroomed villa and a swimming pool to maintain.

The fly in the ointment (sorry for all the cliches) in your calculations would seem to be that the cost of private health insurance needs to be factored in. As I understand it, until one of you is in receipt of a state pension (which means you both qualify for health care under the reciprocal agreement between the UK and Cyprus), you must have health insurance in order to live here. Depending on existing conditions, that can be very expensive. The other problem is that you will, if you rent your house, not have any income on which to live, given that the rent from your house will be used for rent and other costs related to your accommodation. I would not count on being able to find any work here (and fluent written and spoken Greek is of paramount importance), because there are many Cypriots who cannot find any work at all.

I may have got the financial side of the picture incorrect, but without an additional source of income life here would be very bleak indeed. Please do not sell your house, because once you have done so there is no way back. I would advise, and suggest, that you ensure you have a reasonable sum of money behind you to last six to twelve months of living in Cyprus (despite other posts on other forum, the cost of living is about the same), then rent your house, take a deep breath and ...

I was also interested in your statement that your Incapacity Benefit was no longer payable, because of cutbacks. IB and its successor Employment Support Allowance is payable throughout the EEA (I was an adviser at the Citizens Advice Bureau after I took early retirement), and if your medical condition is the same as it was when you were first placed on IB, the transition from IB to ESA (after undergoing the interrogation from Atos Healthcare) should be straightforward. I know from personal experience the whole benefit scandal in the UK but perhaps you might investigate an appeal against the decision. I know it all depends on whether your benefit is contribution or income based (and your husband's self-employed status might muddy the waters) but do feel free to PM me for further advice. If you can qualify/requalify for ESA, that might help your financial conundrum.

In any event, the very best of luck with your decision. Members of this forum will be only too glad to help with advice (even if it is advice you don't want to hear), because an awful lot of us have gone through similar "Shall we, shan't we?" soul-searching.


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## Jancomper (Jan 27, 2013)

Thankyou everyone for your input and especial thanks MacManiac for your thoughtful and in depth insight. I think we will either have to wait until one of us reaches state retirement age or possibly rent our uk home and come over for 6 - 12 months to look around and fully assess and experience living there.

As far as the Incap Benefit goes over a year ago I was transferred to ESA and given the medical - told I was no longer eligible - appealed against the decision and took it to tribunal. it took 1 year of stress and anxiety for the tribunal to be heard last October, I was surprised to win my appeal and was told yes I was unfit to work and my appeal was upheld. We got out the champagne. 2 weks later my money was stopped as they had transferred me to contribution based ESA at the time I appealed and it has run out. Because they declared me unfit to work I can't claim jobseekers and as hubby works on average more than 24 hours a week (though to be honest ofetn barely that) I can't claim anything I have been to CAB and welfare rights and they all just shrug and say nothing can be done.

I am constantly fighting off deep depression over the whole situation and only the thought of getting away from this hole called England to somewhere I don't feel ill all the time one day makes me keep getting up on a morning. Its what we've dreamed and planned for for most of our adult lives and things just keep coming up against us.

We made an ill advised investment of our life savings some years ago and the reduced sum which remained has been used up by living expenses since I have been unable to work, so apart from about £5,000 and anything we can get for our car and personall effects everything is tied up in our house.

I'm so sorry I didn't come on here to complain and be negative but some days it seems as though nothings ever going to go right. ALL I want is to get up and not ache all over, to be able to go outdoors without swimming through floodwater and wrapping up like an Eskimo and for my OH not to have to use 5 inhalers a day.


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## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

Gosh you have been through some awful stuff ... the transition from IB to ESA has been a bloody experience for so many, thanks to the delights of Atos Healthcare and the approach of the current, and last, government in the UK. Ironically I was called for the interrogation (often conducted by Albanian physiotherapists, allegedly), and met a delightful English nurse who could not have been kinder. I was amazed some weeks later to receive a letter from the "powers that be", telling me not only that I was successful in making the transition but that I was to be placed in the Support Group (contribution-based, and where my contributions will continue to be paid), until the age of 65, when I will be able to claim my State Pension. The extra £100 a week is not vital but makes a healthy contribution to our income.

Sadly so many people have been cast aside by this system, which is after all meant to a safety net for those unable to fend for themselves. You might care to look at a website called the Black Triangle (Black Triangle Campaign | Anti-Defamation Campaign in Defence of Disability Rights) is an online voice for many people in the same situation as you. I was able to prepare for the interrogation with help from many on that site.

In any event, you are caught in the Catch 22 situation, and my heart goes out to you. Not fit to work, and therefore no JSA, and not eligible for income-based ESA (although your husband's accountant might be in a position to help if his income has fallen). I do know of some people who have successfully reapplied for ESA after a change of circumstances.

In any event, the very best of luck for the future.


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## Kalimera (Oct 19, 2011)

Sound advice from MacManiac here. We have been thinking about moving over to Cyprus for some time now but don't feel it's quite the right time of our lives to do it. The ability to earn money whilst still relatively young holds us back and the gut feeling is we are better off here for another 10/15 years or so. With so many locals out of work my chance of finding 'decent' employment is zilch! 

So in the meantime I will have to put up with visiting 2 or 3 times a year for holidays!


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## Jan Jones (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi there- I've just got my boxes packed and I'm ready to do as you and for the same reasons!! I'm on state pension already and I'm a bit confused about the residence situation-I believe from what I've read that if I apply for permanent residence I cannot do any part-time work whether paid or not. I'd also like to bring my car over which again is confusing as it is a personal item and therefore not liable to import tax or vat- but I can only keep it there for 12 months????I live a very low maintenance life but am finding even existing is becoming high maintenance in the UK. I no longer own a home here and I'm looking to rent in the Peyia area- so am planning a 2 week 'reccie' at the beginning of march-can't wait!!may bump into you both sometime when you make the move!


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2013)

Jan Jones said:


> Hi there- I've just got my boxes packed and I'm ready to do as you and for the same reasons!! I'm on state pension already and I'm a bit confused about the residence situation-I believe from what I've read that if I apply for permanent residence I cannot do any part-time work whether paid or not. I'd also like to bring my car over which again is confusing as it is a personal item and therefore not liable to import tax or vat- but I can only keep it there for 12 months????I live a very low maintenance life but am finding even existing is becoming high maintenance in the UK. I no longer own a home here and I'm looking to rent in the Peyia area- so am planning a 2 week 'reccie' at the beginning of march-can't wait!!may bump into you both sometime when you make the move!


Hi!
I sort out the car question first.

If you have owned your car 6 months or more in UK you can bring it as Personal property without paying Excise Duty. VAT is only paid on new cars. You must have imported it within 12 months from you got your residence permit.

About your work, for sure you can make f.ex. charity work, very many do. About paid work I hope someone else answer.

Anders


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## Jan Jones (Sep 27, 2011)

yes had it a while-shame to leave it in UK cos its a soft-top (leaking) and we've had rain every day all summer so it will die if I leave it here-it should be living in Cyprus and it will live forever!!!!


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## Geraldine (Jan 3, 2009)

I do volunteer work at a dog shelter 2 mornings, which is rewarding as you feel you are making a poor dogs life a little happier.


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## Jan Jones (Sep 27, 2011)

Actually I'm bringing 3 cats over later-house cats-they wont be getting out!!I don't have any choice and didn't want to dump them in UK I couldn't do that so although a lot of people will think I'm crazy-I dont actually have any choice because I love them!!So we'll make the best of whatever we can. I love animals-prefer them to people sometimes!


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## Geraldine (Jan 3, 2009)

Jan Jones said:


> Actually I'm bringing 3 cats over later-house cats-they wont be getting out!!I don't have any choice and didn't want to dump them in UK I couldn't do that so although a lot of people will think I'm crazy-I dont actually have any choice because I love them!!So we'll make the best of whatever we can. I love animals-prefer them to people sometimes!


:amen: to that.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Jan Jones said:


> I love animals-prefer them to people sometimes!


Easy to do with some of the whinging ex-pats out here !!!!



Pete


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Jan Jones said:


> I'm on state pension already and I'm a bit confused about the residence situation-I believe from what I've read that if I apply for permanent residence I cannot do any part-time work whether paid or not.


As an Eu citizen you can work here even if you are on a state pension.
Many ex pats on pensions do part time work to make their pensions go further and to stop themselves becoming bored.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2013)

Jan Jones said:


> yes had it a while-shame to leave it in UK cos its a soft-top (leaking) and we've had rain every day all summer so it will die if I leave it here-it should be living in Cyprus and it will live forever!!!!


Be aware though to drive to much with open roof. It can be very dangerous in the Cyprus sun.

Anders


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## Jan Jones (Sep 27, 2011)

better than getting soaked every time I go out though-easier to drive wearing hat than holding brolly!!!!


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Jan Jones said:


> better than getting soaked every time I go out though-easier to drive wearing hat than holding brolly!!!!


In Cyprus the thought of holding a brolly in a car is ridiculous. How on earth would you hold your mobile and hang one arm out of the window?



Pete


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