# finally going to move:)



## Normski (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi, We have decided that it is time to leave the UK and head to Spain for the good life!!! We finally made the decision last night and here i am on the forum..........
We will probably be heading to Benalmadena to start and take it from there, we hope to be there by May 2012

Look forward to any tips and help you guys can offer

Thanks

Norm


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

How exciting! I hope it all goes well for you. Provided you have enough money to live on and don´t need to find work, life can indeed be very good here. But be prepared to take the rough with the smooth, and keep an open mind - Spain is a foreign country and some things are very different to what we are used to.

Lots of info and tips on the sticky threads but shout if there's anything specific you need,


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## Normski (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi,
well we need to work to we will come with some money to see us through...............we are both performers/entertainers so we normally can get work as my wife is a magician/children's entertainer and im a balloon artist............
I dont know where to start to be honest about doing this.............is there anything on the forum to kick me off in planning to do this?
We also have a 6 year old!!
Any tips would be appreciated
Norm


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Normski said:


> Hi,
> well we need to work to we will come with some money to see us through...............we are both performers/entertainers so we normally can get work as my wife is a magician/children's entertainer and im a balloon artist............
> I dont know where to start to be honest about doing this.............is there anything on the forum to kick me off in planning to do this?
> We also have a 6 year old!!
> ...


this is going to sound harsh but..............

if you are supporting yourselves & have a home in the UK - DON'T COME TO SPAIN..........at least not at the moment


the first thing you need to know is that if you are self-employed & both working you will be paying out +/- 250€ A MONTH EACH in national insurance 

there will be no benfits for you to fall back on if it all goes pear shaped, and although rumour has it that it will soon change - at the moment, if you're not paying into the system, you can't get state healthcare

do you both speak Spanish - if not, you probably won't get much work in any case, simply because there are a lot less Brits around with the sort of money to pay for kids entertainers

have a good read of the forum - especially http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/68126-economic-employment-situation-spain.html


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Normski said:


> Hi, We have decided that it is time to leave the UK and head to Spain for the good life!!! We finally made the decision last night and here i am on the forum..........
> We will probably be heading to Benalmadena to start and take it from there, we hope to be there by May 2012
> 
> Look forward to any tips and help you guys can offer
> ...


Sorry, my advise is DONT! The good life is in the UK, not Spain, apart from the weather. Everything you are finding hard and unhappy about in the UK, well its ten times worse in Spain right now! Spain has less work than the UK, its not cheaper to live there and there are no SS benefits at all - you cant even claim child allowance.



Wait until this EU crisis and recession is over

Jo xxx


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## Normski (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi,
We have been coming to Spain for many years and feel that we could get it to work when we are there.........we have quite a lot of connections and speak reasonable Spanish!!

We want to give it a go and if it doesn't work out, we still own our home in UK and can come back and we will treat it like a short adventure
As our friend has a place in Benalmadena my wife is heading out 2 months ahead of me to start getting things in place with work etc
Can you tell me more about the NI in Spain and if this is needed straight away??

Anything else to consider!!!

Norm


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## Normski (Jan 4, 2012)

jojo said:


> Sorry, my advise is DONT! The good life is in the UK, not Spain, apart from the weather. Everything you are finding hard and unhappy about in the UK, well its ten times worse in Spain right now! Spain has less work than the UK, its not cheaper to live there and there are no SS benefits at all - you cant even claim child allowance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Jo...........we really want to go on an adventure and want to give it a go...........if things really don't work out we have enough to live on for 6 months and can always head home!
I feel that once we are there we can create our own luck!
I realise the economy is in a terrible state but it is in most countries!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Normski said:


> Hi,
> We have been coming to Spain for many years and feel that we could get it to work when we are there.........we have quite a lot of connections and speak reasonable Spanish!!
> 
> We want to give it a go and if it doesn't work out, we still own our home in UK and can come back and we will treat it like a short adventure
> ...


good luck to you then

yes, as soon as you start work you have to start paying NI/autónomo


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Normski said:


> Thanks Jo...........we really want to go on an adventure and want to give it a go...........if things really don't work out we have enough to live on for 6 months and can always head home!
> I feel that once we are there we can create our own luck!
> I realise the economy is in a terrible state but it is in most countries!!!



You need to do a few fact finding missions first. Dont burn your UK bridges whatever you and yes it will certainly be an adventure, altho IMO you'd be better off going to Cornwall for an adventure - they'd be more work for you, cheaper set up and more financial assistance and security. 

What really really need to do is question why on earth you think it would be easier in Spain, everything about the country is much, much harder than the UK, taxes, the language, the red tape, the paperwork, the rules.... The entertainment business is cut throat to say the least. There are desperate people who will take desperate measure to ensure that their work and contracts are not diluted.

Anyway, I've said my piece, I'm sorry I'm so negative, but I'm simply being real and telling you how it is. But do make sure you at least do some proper fact finding first, you never know, you may prove me wrong.

Jo xxx


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Think about your child. You will be unlikely to afford to send the child to a private school and taking it out of the Uk education system for even a few months can be very disruptive if you have to return to the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...lux-people-wanting-move-spain.html#post683020

This is worth a read too

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Normski said:


> As our friend has a place in Benalmadena my wife is heading out 2 months ahead of me to start getting things in place with work etc
> Can you tell me more about the NI in Spain and if this is needed straight away??
> 
> Anything else to consider!!!
> ...


Right, what your wife (and you and your child) need to do when you first arrive is go to Torremolinos Police station/foreigners office and make appointments to get your NIE numbers - without which you can do nothing. Once you have those, you and your wife then need to go to the social security office in Benalmadena (Calle Europa if memory serves) to get your social security numbers - your daughter wont need one of those. You then need to employ a gestoria who will help you to become autonomo and will look after your books. Once you become autonomo and are paying into the Spanish system (250€ per month) you will then be eligible to spanish health care. Up til then you should make sure that you have EHIC (European health insurance card), which you can obtain from Newcastle, one for each of you and that will cover you for emergencies How to apply for and renew an EHIC. You also need to inform the child benefit people that you are moving to Spain. You can still claim for that for up two 12 weeks after you've moved, but sadly, after that it stops



Jo xxx


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

Hi Normski, 

I think if it is your dream then you have to go for it. The replies have been quite negative about moving out here and they do come from people that have been out here for a while so have a good understanding of the current climate in Spain. Cerainly the work situation is a massive issue and certainly something to take on board when considering the move. 

I moved out with my family 4 months ago and can honestly say I haven't regretted it a bit. I am in a lucky situation that I don't rely on the Spanish economy to earn money (Thank God) as I still run a UK business which I can do mainly from here with the odd trip back to the UK. 

Having moved only 4 months ago I can see that this recession is Europe wide and things really weren't a bed of roses back in England either. Things we have noticed is the cost of living is still cheaper in Spain (Maybe not as good as it was 3, 4, 5 Years ago) but accomodation, food and drink, fuel etc are all cheaper than the UK. 

What I would say is if you are not reliant on the state in Spain, can make a living then your quality of life is going to be better than the UK. When everywhere is feeling the hardship of the current economic climate I know I would much rather be somewhere sunny than in cold and wet England.

If you do go ahead I wish you all the best. 

Minty


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> Hi Normski,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, all that depends on your 'quality of life' back in the UK,doesn't it?
And very few British immigrants are in a position to be 'reliant on the Spanish state'.
Frankly, I'd rather be warm and comfortable in a nice house in a decent area in the UK than stuck in a grotty urb working long hours for very little pay and with no job security.
If all you need for a 'good life' or the 'Spanish dream' is a bit of sunshine, well, I guess you'll put up with almost anything....


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

I agree it does depend on your quality of life. All I was saying is the UK isn't great at the moment either, it really depends on what you are looking for. 

For me I am earning the same as I was in the UK, my outgoings have decreased by moving to Spain (Whilst at the same time my standard of living has got better). Having been in the UK for the last 5 winters (some of those in Scotland), the sunshine is most definately an added bonus. 

Also warm and comfortable in England is difficult, have you been there recently to see the cost of Gas and Electric. When I left my bills for those two utilities were £500 per month and I now pay around £100

Life is very much what you make of it. If you are living in Spain "in a grotty urb working long hours for very little pay and with no job security" the chances are in the UK you will live on a housing estate working long hours for very little pay and with no job security!! 

Everyones situation is different, all I was pointing out to the poster is that if they really want to move they should give it a go. You never know what opportunity might be round the corner



mrypg9 said:


> Well, all that depends on your 'quality of life' back in the UK,doesn't it?
> And very few British immigrants are in a position to be 'reliant on the Spanish state'.
> Frankly, I'd rather be warm and comfortable in a nice house in a decent area in the UK than stuck in a grotty urb working long hours for very little pay and with no job security.
> If all you need for a 'good life' or the 'Spanish dream' is a bit of sunshine, well, I guess you'll put up with almost anything....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

minty75 said:


> Hi Normski,
> 
> I think if it is your dream then you have to go for it. The replies have been quite negative about moving out here and they do come from people that have been out here for a while so have a good understanding of the current climate in Spain. Cerainly the work situation is a massive issue and certainly something to take on board when considering the move.
> 
> ...


I disagree!! If you have a home, job, friends, family in the UK you WILL be better off staying there. The weather in Spain doesnt make up for having no money and lets face it, in the UK if you dont earn enough, you can claim family credit, housing allowance, child benefit.... If you cant pay your electricity/gas/water bill, they will help you with prepayment keys/cards, discount payments, repayment tariffs - in Spain??? Tough, no one will help you, they wont even give you your plane fare home!

Spain is a wonderful place to live. But if you dont have much money or no money at all then its grim. To live comfortably, but not extravagantly in Benalmadena, which is where we were, it cost us (excluding school fees) between 2000€ - 2500€ a month. We didnt eat out much or go on many trips. that was just to live day to day. That was for three of us and two dogs - OH used to give me extra money when he was there (he commuted). We're now back in the UK and yes, its depressing and miserable, but there is also a sense of security and its reassuring to know that in the UK that good old nanny state that everyone moans about is there to do what nanny does - look after people! That said, I'm so hoping to come back to Spain soon, but my childrens ages (14 &16) mean that they couldnt live there permanently, so neither can I until they are independent. I'd also have to find work in Spain and that took me three years when I was there before!


This misguided thinking is that Spains so great for holidays that it must be like that all the time. You simply move there, get a little job to cover your costs and live happily everafter sipping sangria by the pool, no stress or pressure - the reality isnt like that as we all know. the reality is red tape, incomprehensible regulations, rules, paperwork, photocopies, struggling to get simple things sorted and to understand the way bureaucracy works, fighting the language difficulties... and thats when there isnt an economic crisis!By all means if an adventure is what someone is looking for then great, but all adventures start with sensible planning, especially when there are children involved and not jumping somewhere when its a high risk - certainly not if it means burning bridges. 

By all means if someone has no responsibilities or is retired with an income, or has an income from other sources, then go for it - its perfect! But now is not the time to take risks - especially with a family

Jo xxx


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> I disagree!! If you have a home, job, friends, family in the UK you WILL be better off staying there. The weather in Spain doesnt make up for having no money and lets face it, in the UK if you dont earn enough, you can claim family credit, housing allowance, child benefit.... If you cant pay your electricity/gas/water bill, they will help you with prepayment keys/cards, discount payments, repayment tariffs - in Spain??? Tough, no one will help you, they wont even give you your plane fare home!
> 
> Spain is a wonderful place to live. But if you dont have much money or no money at all then its grim. To live comfortably, but not extravagantly in Benalmadena, which is where we were, it cost us (excluding school fees) between 2000€ - 2500€ a month. We didnt eat out much or go on many trips. that was just to live day to day. That was for three of us and two dogs - OH used to give me extra money when he was there (he commuted). We're now back in the UK and yes, its depressing and miserable, but there is also a sense of security and its reassuring to know that in the UK that good old nanny state that everyone moans about is there to do what nanny does - look after people! That said, I'm so hoping to come back to Spain soon, but my childrens ages (14 &16) mean that they couldnt live there permanently, so neither can I until they are independent. I'd also have to find work in Spain and that took me three years when I was there before!
> 
> ...


I have moved to Spain with a pregnant wife, two children under 5 and grandparents in tow so by all accounts I should probably be certified right now working on the above!

As I have mentioned before everyones experiences are different. Obviously yours and a lot of people on this forum are very negative about Spain and your advice to anyone is avoid at all costs. I am just trying to bring some balance to the argument that not everyones experience is negative and that some people will make it work. Having met some interesting people out here since we moved I would suggest the people that make it work aren't the ones waiting for a job to land in their lap, its the people that have gone out and set something up for themselves. If you can do that then your standard of living in Spain can be very good. 

If you are looking for a fallback and someone to give you handouts and a nanny state to look after you then I would suggest without a doubt the UK is the best place to be. I have to say that life is not for me but each to their own....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

minty75 said:


> I have moved to Spain with a pregnant wife, two children under 5 and grandparents in tow so by all accounts I should probably be certified right now working on the above!
> 
> As I have mentioned before everyones experiences are different. Obviously yours and a lot of people on this forum are very negative about Spain and your advice to anyone is avoid at all costs. I am just trying to bring some balance to the argument that not everyones experience is negative and that some people will make it work. Having met some interesting people out here since we moved I would suggest the people that make it work aren't the ones waiting for a job to land in their lap, its the people that have gone out and set something up for themselves. If you can do that then your standard of living in Spain can be very good.
> 
> If you are looking for a fallback and someone to give you handouts and a nanny state to look after you then I would suggest without a doubt the UK is the best place to be. I have to say that life is not for me but each to their own....


Negative and realism are two different things. You've got yourself a UK business and you are running it from Spain - thats good, we did that too, it works and thats what I've said. If you have an income *outside* of spain then great. But can you imagine giving up everything in the UK and taking your family to spain hoping to "make your own luck"??? My answers are not negative, they're realism!!!! Maybe 5+ years ago then it would have been easier to make it work - but now its very risky and altho it may work, its not to be advised with enthusiasm and positivity, so we dont!!!

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

minty75 said:


> I have moved to Spain with a pregnant wife, two children under 5 and grandparents in tow so by all accounts I should probably be certified right now working on the above!


BTW, you are crazy LOLOLOLOL 

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

My experience of Spain is far from negative. But I'm not looking for work and (fingers crossed) have no money worries, at the moment anyway. Who knows what's ahead....
My lifestyle here is no better than that I enjoyed in Prague or in the UK. I had a good job with a good income and OH had businesses. We didn't leave the UK for a 'better life', certainly not for sun....we landed in Prague seven years ago in minus twelve C and thick snow!! We left the UK simply for a change of scenery and to see more of the world -well, the European part of it - before we were Zimmer-frame bound..
My point is merely that many would-be immigrants have no job to come to, no sought-after skills (some are unskilled but pass themselves off as electricians, plumbers etc), no knowledge of Spanish (some seem to have a poor grasp of written English) and for many their only experience of 'abroad' is through a holiday.
Since I came here over three years ago I've seen the situation deteriorate rapidly. So I think it is irresponsible to tell people who fit any of the descriptions above to 'Go for it'.
If you have a business you can run from Spain...that is a different matter altogether.


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## belle1985 (Aug 16, 2010)

Normski said:


> Hi, We have decided that it is time to leave the UK and head to Spain for the good life!!! We finally made the decision last night and here i am on the forum..........
> We will probably be heading to Benalmadena to start and take it from there, we hope to be there by May 2012
> 
> Look forward to any tips and help you guys can offer
> ...


cool i not that far just hard to find work good luck in the move


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## rangitoto (Apr 25, 2011)

well we came out to spain in oct 2011 and wished we had come to spain a lot earlier dont know what these doom and gloom merchants say dont bother comeing out here say at home they dont seem to be rushing back home


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2012)

rangitoto said:


> well we came out to spain in oct 2011 and wished we had come to spain a lot earlier dont know what these doom and gloom merchants say dont bother comeing out here say at home they dont seem to be rushing back home


I've got a mortgage and too many family ties here for the time being. We're beginning to consider how we could go back home - at least for the time being.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rangitoto said:


> well we came out to spain in oct 2011 and wished we had come to spain a lot earlier dont know what these doom and gloom merchants say dont bother comeing out here say at home they dont seem to be rushing back home



We're back in the UK. Others on here are in the main retirees, commuters, on line workers or those who arrived here a good few years ago when things were stable and prosperous!

I resent being classed as a "doom and gloom merchant". People ask the questions and we tell them how it is. Anything else would be lying and we dont lie!!! After that the choice is theirs and I'm sure there are some who may succeed, but its such a huge risk and without careful planning could so easily result in total devestation and loss of everything they own - its been seen many times and I know many people who have lost everything, including their marriages

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Norm,

Sorry to add to all the people raining on your parade. You will need a lot of luck to survive in Spain and it will probably drain your life savings. Stick with reality and leave dreams to dreamers.


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## el_cartero (Jan 23, 2011)

its a good time to rent cheap from all the uk folk going home. there desperate

all i do is rent my flat here


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

I was watching a show on German TV about Germans living in Spain yesterday.

One case was of a German man who decided to leave Germany and move to the South of Spain with his Venezuelan wife and three kids to work as a painter. He worked as a painter and would paint =>whole<= apartments for 400 euros with his wife's help. He spoke perfect Spanish. They STRUGGLED to get by. To add insult to injury, they were starting a business that cost them 250 euros a month in rent with utterly GRIM outlooks.

Another case was of a wealthy Frankfurter who moved to Marbella 12 years ago, bought a house that is presently worth 2 million euros, owned a German sausage imbiss and made his money there with relative success. He said Spain is a difficult place to live in comfortably, especially since the crisis. You need to know the language (he didn't), you need money, income, or a very good business plan and you need to be careful if you are bringing family with you.

I thought the show was a brilliant example of the contrast between two kinds of expats who want to move to Spain. The (far too) adventurous one versus the financially stable one.

I know which one I felt sorry for.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

rangitoto said:


> well we came out to spain in oct 2011 and wished we had come to spain a lot earlier dont know what these doom and gloom merchants say dont bother comeing out here say at home they dont seem to be rushing back home




October 2011? You would have hardly had time to unpack never mind have experience of living in Spain


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> October 2011? You would have hardly had time to unpack never mind have experience of living in Spain


On the other side of that argument I can give good analysis of the current differences of living in the UK compared to Spain. I know the people that have lived out here for a long time complain that prices for everything have gone up, well welcome to the real world prices wherever you reside have gone up. Spain is still a cheaper place to live that the UK and I think some people that are negative on this forum that have lived in Spain for a while have this fantasy idea that the UK is still like it was 5, 7, 10 years ago, Its not, just as Spain isn't. 

I just thought at the start of this when someone had obviously come on here for advice and was enthusiastic about moving out here that there was so many negative comments. I agree be honest, but just remember your honesty is only based on your own experiences and as many people have pointed out before everyone is in a different situation. 

Jo you were classed as a doom and gloom merchant by someone and apparently my advice is irresponsible according to someone else! I do find it interesting that people think that their advice is the only advice that people should take because of their experiences. I would advise anyone do as much research as possible, listen to peoples advice but always take it with a pinch of salt. If you think the move is right for you and your family, then even if I am apparently irresponsible I would still say good for you and go for it. This is a forum and I don't know you so I would suggest that you know your situation better than me.

I do think it would be a shame just because of the current economic climate that if people decided never to take a risk for potentially a better life. There are risks in everything you do, it is up to you to weigh up those risks.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Having moved to a remote area of Spain a year ago I cannot even think of a better place to be. Part of the problem is that many expats choose to live in tourist areas whereas my nearest shop is 10kms away and I don't have a car yet so I walk to the shops through the wooded path to San Martin De Valdeiglesias with my shopping trolley and stare at the fantastic landscape, pure bliss !!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

rangitoto said:


> well we came out to spain in oct 2011 and wished we had come to spain a lot earlier dont know what these doom and gloom merchants say dont bother comeing out here say at home they dont seem to be rushing back home



Why should I 'rush home'?
I have no worries, living a good life in a nice house here....because I am not looking for work.
But many people are 'rushing back home'.
You have frankly been here a very short time and seem to have little knowledge as yet of the economic situation here.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> On the other side of that argument I can give good analysis of the current differences of living in the UK compared to Spain. I know the people that have lived out here for a long time complain that prices for everything have gone up, well welcome to the real world prices wherever you reside have gone up. Spain is still a cheaper place to live that the UK and I think some people that are negative on this forum that have lived in Spain for a while have this fantasy idea that the UK is still like it was 5, 7, 10 years ago, Its not, just as Spain isn't.
> 
> I just thought at the start of this when someone had obviously come on here for advice and was enthusiastic about moving out here that there was so many negative comments. I agree be honest, but just remember your honesty is only based on your own experiences and as many people have pointed out before everyone is in a different situation.
> 
> ...


I know as much about the UK as you or anyone. For the first years after I left the UK I commuted weekly. I still make regular visits.
I wouldn't give anyone advice but I do believe in telling people the facts.
Here's a fact: unemployment in my neck of the woods is 34% and rising.
What chance do you think unskilled, non-Spanish-speaking, sometimes inexperienced and sadly often semi-literate people from any country have of finding decent employment?
Take off your rose-coloured specs.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I appreciate your views and yes, if people want to give it a go then they should, BUT they need to know the facts!! Is it a little cheaper to live in Spain ?? Well on the surface it is, altho you have to take into account that the UK has many benefits that reduce in terms the higher costs - child allowance, family credit, tax reliefs, free healthcare.... More importantly, finding a job in Spain si hard, if you are lucky enough to find one the pay will be lower, if you're self employed, you pay more and should it all fail, there is no benefit system to fall back on. So it desnt matter how much cheaper it is

We moved to Spain in 2008, my husband intended to bring his successful business with us and we would live there happily ever after. The recession meant he couldnt so he commuted and maintained the UK business, we rented out our UK house, which funded the rental of the house in Spain. I eventually after 3 years found work as a waitress in a cafe earning 200€ a month, and then found a better job selling holidays over the phone - I earnt 400€ for than. We came back to the UK in the autumn, cos we lost the tenants in our UK house, my husband was fed up with commuting and my kids wanted to return to the UK. 

Thats was how it was for us. But during my life in Spain I met all manner of people who had decided, almost on a whim to just move to Spain for "the better life" one sticks in my mind. A family who's father won £25,000 compensation in the UK so they moved to Spain. They paid their rent a year up front and found jobs - their joint pay barely covered their food bill, but they settled, altho they both kept losing their jobs and after 6 months, her mother moved over to help with the costs and childminding. He then started flying back to the UK to sign on the dole (illegally), selling cigarettes to fund the flight. Eventually he was caught and it was discovered they had also been claiming child allowance for their three kids while in Spain and ordered to pay that back. So in total financial ruin they went back to the UK. The family of 6 had to move in with his father into a two bedroom masonette..... I know soooo many people like that, I know so many peopel who have spent a small fortune moving to Spain for the "good life"

What exactly is "The good life"??? Thats the question!!!! I think its caused by lack of knowledge and awareness of how things really are in Spain. 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Well said Jo.
Frankly, if people's lives are so dire in the UK...why do they think they will have a 'better life' in Spain? I'm fascinated by this 'better life' concept.
Most of us who are settled here, whether retired or in secure well-paid employment, don't have to worry too much about whether butter costs more in the UK and Spain. We didn't come here because we thought it was 'cheap'.
We came because we could....because we knew we were cushioned against economic storms, that even if times were hard we'd still have a reasonably good life. 
In some cases, people with problems in the UK will carry those problems in their baggage to Spain. With all the power of the welfare state behind you, if you can't make it in the UK you certainly won't in Spain.
Spain is not a refuge for people who find life hard in the UK. It has serious problems of its own. Spanish people need work...almost five million of them.
I suggest that those who say 'Go for it'...and yes, I do call it irresponsible to give such advice to families with few realistic prospects of finding adequately paid employment - should set up a fund to help with the repatriation costs of those who take that advice and end up penniless.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Trubrit said:


> Having moved to a remote area of Spain a year ago I cannot even think of a better place to be. Part of the problem is that many expats choose to live in tourist areas whereas my nearest shop is 10kms away and I don't have a car yet so I walk to the shops through the wooded path to San Martin De Valdeiglesias with my shopping trolley and stare at the fantastic landscape, pure bliss !!


So...how quickly did you find work?


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> I know as much about the UK as you or anyone. For the first years after I left the UK I commuted weekly. I still make regular visits.
> I wouldn't give anyone advice but I do believe in telling people the facts.
> Here's a fact: unemployment in my neck of the woods is 34% and rising.
> What chance do you think unskilled, non-Spanish-speaking, sometimes inexperienced and sadly often semi-literate people from any country have of finding decent employment?
> Take off your rose-coloured specs.


I think I will leave my rose coloured specs on, as I prefer to look on lifes positives than the negatives like you obviously do. On my side of things my children are playing outdoors compared to being stuck inside in winter in the UK, my standard of living has improved by being in Spain and generally I am enjoying life a lot more. Sorry if that seems to irk you, but I can only tell you how I feel.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

*I moved out with my family 4 months ago and can honestly say I haven't regretted it a bit. I am in a lucky situation that I don't rely on the Spanish economy to earn money (Thank God) as I still run a UK business which I can do mainly from here with the odd trip back to the UK*. 


This from Minty's original post.
Says it all.
...'I don't rely on the Spanish economy' sums it up.
The people wanting to move here will be relying on the Spanish economy.

I rest my case.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

minty75 said:


> I think I will leave my rose coloured specs on, as I prefer to look on lifes positives than the negatives like you obviously do. On my side of things my children are playing outdoors compared to being stuck inside in winter in the UK, my standard of living has improved by being in Spain and generally I am enjoying life a lot more. Sorry if that seems to irk you, but I can only tell you how I feel.


I dont disagree, altho the novelty of playing outside, the sunshine, the swimming pool in the garden soon wore off for mine and they were indoors in the summer cos it was too hot, the winter weather wasnt all that and they much preferred playng on their playstations/xbos etc. But life is nicer in a sunny, relaxed country I agree. Like you, we didnt rely on finding work in spain and thats the difference. Imagine your life if you had to find a stable income to pay, imagine how relaxed and fun your lives would be if you had to keep saying no to your kids cos we cant afford.... whatever!Imagine NOT having an income and having to go out day after day to look for work, or not knowing where the next pay packet would come from...... Thats the reality of simply moving to spain and making your own luck - thats why we are supposedly "doom and gloom merchants"

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> I dont disagree, altho the novelty of playing outside, the sunshine, the swimming pool in the garden soon wore off for mine and they were indoors in the summer cos it was too hot, the winter weather wasnt all that and they much preferred playng on their playstations/xbos etc. But life is nicer in a sunny, relaxed country I agree. Like you, we didnt rely on finding work in spain and thats the difference. Imagine your life if you had to find a stable income to pay, imagine how relaxed and fun your lives would be if you had to keep saying no to your kids cos we cant afford.... whatever!Imagine NOT having an income and having to go out day after day to look for work, or not knowing where the next pay packet would come from...... Thats the reality of simply moving to spain and making your own luck - thats why we are supposedly "doom and gloom merchants"
> 
> Jo xxx


we don't rely on Spain for our income either, as you know, and could quite happily stay here - & want to

*Spain is our home*, our kids are more Spanish than English - they have grown up here & have been here most of their lives

*but like many Spanish people* we are increasingly worried for their immediate future here - the older one can leave school this year, although thank god she doesn't intend to - but even though they will both be in education for several more years we are actually worried about what is happening to the education system atm

because of this & this only, *we are considering leaving*, at least until the kids have finished their education & are independent - as so many young Spanish people are now doing - leaving *for better opportunities*


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> *I moved out with my family 4 months ago and can honestly say I haven't regretted it a bit. I am in a lucky situation that I don't rely on the Spanish economy to earn money (Thank God) as I still run a UK business which I can do mainly from here with the odd trip back to the UK*.
> 
> 
> This from Minty's original post.
> ...


Thats my point too! and thats what everyone is saying. so I guess we can all agree!

Jo xxx


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> *I moved out with my family 4 months ago and can honestly say I haven't regretted it a bit. I am in a lucky situation that I don't rely on the Spanish economy to earn money (Thank God) as I still run a UK business which I can do mainly from here with the odd trip back to the UK*.
> 
> 
> This from Minty's original post.
> ...



Also from my original post
The replies have been quite negative about moving out here and they do come from people that have been out here for a while so have a good understanding of the current climate in Spain. Cerainly the work situation is a massive issue and certainly something to take on board when considering the move. 

I don't think I was ever arguing that the work situation isn't an issue. They think they can make a go of it, I am not going to argue they can't are you?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

minty75 said:


> I don't think I was ever arguing that the work situation isn't an issue. They think they can make a go of it, I am not going to argue they can't are you?


 But thats the whole point of the original question!!!??????! Someone who wants to move to Spain and knows little about the economy and situation comes onto the forum and asks - the posters who live in Spain have given the answers. Its not an argument as to whether he will find work or not, its advising how things are, the risk factors, the odds and suggesting damage limitation


Jo xxx


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> But thats the whole point of the original question!!!??????! Someone who wants to move to Spain and knows little about the economy and situation comes onto the forum and asks - the posters who live in Spain have given the answers. Its not an argument as to whether he will find work or not, its advising how things are, the risk factors, the odds and suggesting damage limitation
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I think if you read through the initial answers to the post though it just comes across as you would be foolish to even consider moving out here. I think that is a shame as this is an expatforum and there should be constructive arguments either way. I think the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain is not helpful. 

I am relatively new to this forum, but all it makes me think is there are a lot of bitter experiences on here and what is the point in coming on here.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

minty75 said:


> I think if you read through the initial answers to the post though it just comes across as you would be foolish to even consider moving out here. I think that is a shame as this is an expatforum and there should be constructive arguments either way. I think the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain is not helpful.
> 
> I am relatively new to this forum, but all it makes me think is there are a lot of bitter experiences on here and what is the point in coming on here.


but even you agree that if you are needing work here & you have a family to support it's a bad idea to give everything up in the UK (or wherever) to come here atm

you are in the lucky position, as am I & a lot of us on this forum, of having an income independent of the Spanish economy - a whole different ballgame!!


if you look through enough of our posts & threads you'll see that we do indeed give different advice to people depending on their circumstances


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

minty75 said:


> I think if you read through the initial answers to the post though it just comes across as you would be foolish to even consider moving out here. I think that is a shame as this is an expatforum and there should be constructive arguments either way. I think the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain is not helpful.
> 
> I am relatively new to this forum, but all it makes me think is there are a lot of bitter experiences on here and what is the point in coming on here.


Minty, I've been on this forum for a couple of years now. I was thinking the other day that it's fascinating that it seems _all_ old posters are now warning people about moving to Spain. This sort of opinion is definitely new in the last couple of months. 

Spain is great. The people are great. The food is great. The weather is not as nice where I live as it is on the famous _Costas_. I've said it before, I'm not one of the many retired posters. I'm in my mid-twenties and both my husband and I work in Education. I've got a job until August 31st and I'm earning enough to support the both of us. I'm very lucky to have this job because my husband is currently out of work and his unemployment pay just ran out. Thankfully, we've got a roof over our heads and can afford the essentials right now. I'm also thankful I have savings in my home country to bail us out if need be. However, the government *just* changed and many cutbacks are being made. I'm starting to wonder if my nervousness is worth checking out with the doctor - I had another night of rough sleep worrying about the immediate future. Things, at least for me and the vast majority of young people in my circle of friends, are not all rainbows, puppy tails, and happiness right now - and we live in one of the regions with the lowest amount of unemployment here. I couldn't imagine living in the south where it's a lot worse than here. That, and seeing the leaders of my region (in Valencia's case) on television for corruption charges. That would make me frustrated beyond belief. Heck, I'm not even from there and I'm _indignada!_

The man just woke up and said he slept terribly last night. I did too, and joked "It's Rajoy's fault that we slept poorly." He agreed. I'm serious when I say that the economic news and political changes are affecting the both of us. 

I'm sorry we're coming across as negative grumps. However, I'm talking about the experience I'm currently having. If someone is retiring to Spain with a good chunk of change in the bank and doesn't have to depend on the state for anything - by all means, come and spend your money! However, if you're a young couple, especially with children, and you're coming over without work lined up please *THINK* long and hard about your plans. If they're willing to teach English and are moving to one of the "less-guiri" regions (i.e. not the _Costas_) I'd say give it a try but realize you might be living on 1000 euros/month after paying the independent contractor taxes. 

To anyone considering coming over, I wish you the best of luck.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I would add that the chances of getting employment as entertainers, whilst not impossible, are going to be extremely difficult. You are going to have to offer something that the scores of other entertainers (who will be doing more or less the same thing) haven't got. We moved over here in 2010 with a pension (it's mine, all mine) and a couple of very different and very exciting business ideas. Whilst we haven't even started on those ventures they are still very much in our plans, but since arriving I have started work teaching English as a foreign language, something I never anticipated. So my advice would be, if you really really really want to come over and you haven't burnt your bridges back in UK, then do so but with a completely open mind as to what to expect. I can promise you that whatever your plans and expectations, whatever happens it will be completely different. It might be tough, but with a bit of luck and the right attitude, it can still be done. And where we live it is considerably cheaper than back in UK as ALL of our friends who visit confirm.


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## Normski (Jan 4, 2012)

...................thanks guys,just came back on to a lot of interesting views.

We are not moving to Spain for a better economy,the economy in most countries is terrible from USA to Europe. We are coming to see how things can be in Spain and see if we could move our lives elsewhere,why not,life is for living!
I don't believe in regenerate and wrong decisions and i dont live in the matrix

We have a great business here and do not rely on the state for anything but our business is transferable. Luckily for us we are not hurt by the recession people still get married, have parties, wedding and still spend on there children wherever you live!!
I have to say that some of your comments were some what negative and i understand as things may of not worked out for you as it may not for us but im still coming anyhow so any helpful advise is appreciated.

Much love

Norm:clap2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Normski said:


> ...................thanks guys,just came back on to a lot of interesting views.
> 
> We are not moving to Spain for a better economy,the economy in most countries is terrible from USA to Europe. We are coming to see how things can be in Spain and see if we could move our lives elsewhere,why not,life is for living!
> I don't believe in regenerate and wrong decisions and i dont live in the matrix
> ...



If nothing else, you may now be a bit better prepared for whats to come. You may be able to commute back to the UK to carry on with some work in the UK to help with finances - should you need to, so dont burn your bridges. Good luck with it all and let us know how things go

Jo xxx


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

Normski said:


> Hi, We have decided that it is time to leave the UK and head to Spain for the good life!!! We finally made the decision last night and here i am on the forum..........
> We will probably be heading to Benalmadena to start and take it from there, we hope to be there by May 2012
> 
> Look forward to any tips and help you guys can offer
> ...


We emigrated to Spain 12 months ago and its the best thing we ever did, we love the Spanish way of life and have made many friends here and have a great social life. As long as you don't need to find work you will be OK as the cost of living is much less here in Spain.
We went to the UK last week and it cost us £10.80 for a pint of Guinness and a red wine!!!! Don't think we could afford to live in the UK now and have the standard of life we want. Give us Spain anytime!

We do miss the grand kids but Skype is a fantastic thing and they are only a 2.5 hour flight away.

Sometimes you just have to make up your mind and follow your dream, we did and do not regret it for a second!
All the best to you in your new adventure! x


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jaxx said:


> We emigrated to Spain 12 months ago and its the best thing we ever did, we love the Spanish way of life and have made many friends here and have a great social life. *As long as you don't need to find work you will be OK* as the cost of living is much less here in Spain.


you hit the nail on the head :clap2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> I don't think I was ever arguing that the work situation isn't an issue. They think they can make a go of it, I am not going to argue they can't are you?


Yes. I would submit that 99% of the would-be immigrants will have second thoughts when they realise the true situation here or when the rain in the UK stops and of those who come regardless with no job and few if any qualifications, 99% will not 'make a go of it', whatever that means.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> I think if you read through the initial answers to the post though it just comes across as you would be foolish to even consider moving out here. I think that is a shame as this is an expatforum and there should be constructive arguments either way. I think the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain is not helpful.
> 
> I am relatively new to this forum, but all it makes me think is there are a lot of bitter experiences on here and what is the point in coming on here.


What have you not understood about my posts???? Where has anyone posted anything that can be construed as describing a 'bitter experience'?
Yes, most of us do think it would be foolish to come here with a family with no job, no Spanish, few skills etc. That's because we have experience of the economic situation here and are not ostriches. You seem to have little if any contact with the Spanish economy. Although retired I run a charity which like most is a business where all profit goes back into the charity for future development. Tomorrow I shall be interviewing three candidates for a job which is not a pleasant one - cleaning up after two hundred dogs - and the hourly rate for which is just over the Minimum Wage. I could have interviewed three hundred candidates, so desperate are people here for work. 
I don't understand your phrase 'the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain.' That's not a 'mentality, it's an opinion based on observation and experience.

Yes, there should be 'constructive 'arguments either way. But I haven't seen one coming from you, frankly. All you have done is to rubbish those who have pointed out the FACTS which are that Spain has the highest unemployment rate in the EU, many less well-off Brits have headed back to the UK and that people with little to offer in the current labour market will find it difficult if not impossible to get work.
Oh, and didn't someone else point out that you should consider the effect on your children of taking them out ofta familiar education system for a short period?

The point of posting on this forum is to give people a true picture of current conditions in Spain, not to lure them into making what could be a disastrous decision by blithely ignoring reality.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> What have you not understood about my posts???? Where has anyone posted anything that can be construed as describing a 'bitter experience'?
> Yes, most of us do think it would be foolish to come here with a family with no job, no Spanish, few skills etc. That's because we have experience of the economic situation here and are not ostriches. You seem to have little if any contact with the Spanish economy. Although retired I run a charity which like most is a business where all profit goes back into the charity for future development. Tomorrow I shall be interviewing three candidates for a job which is not a pleasant one - cleaning up after two hundred dogs - and the hourly rate for which is just over the Minimum Wage. I could have interviewed three hundred candidates, so desperate are people here for work.
> I don't understand your phrase 'the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain.' That's not a 'mentality, it's an opinion based on observation and experience.
> 
> ...


I know you mean *in Europe*


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I know you mean *in Europe*


Yes....I'm a pillock...and I was wearing my glasses...
Ive got half my mind on posting, the other half on trying to think up sensible questions for an interview about a job that is basically s*** shovelling


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

minty75 said:


> I think if you read through the initial answers to the post though it just comes across as you would be foolish to even consider moving out here. I think that is a shame as this is an expatforum and there should be constructive arguments either way. I think the mentality of if you can't make it work in the UK then don't bother trying in Spain is not helpful.
> 
> I am relatively new to this forum, but all it makes me think is there are a lot of bitter experiences on here and what is the point in coming on here.


I dont know anyone who's bitter??? I'm annoyed that I had to come back from Spain, but that decision wasnt financial, my husband was fed up with commuting and my son wanted to go to college in the UK cos the courses were better than at his international school. 

The constructive arguments being discussed on here are that Spain has little work and little money. So thats what has been said. Its not open to question, its fact! However, the OP can hopefully keep some work going in the UK which may help to fund his Spanish adventure, but the facts are that its high risk and highly unlikely that he will earn enough or get enough work to fund living a comfortable life in Spain. It also needs pointing out that Benalmadena isnt a cheap area to live in - For me and the two children and excluding the school fees, it cost us around 2000 - 2500€ a month, ok, so we had a three bed semi with a pool, we could have had a cheaper property, maybe an apartment, the kids could have shared a bedroom. But thats where the "better life" bit comes in, I've got a 5 bedroom detached house in the UK and am very lucky, why would we want to live in a small apartment - wheres the better life???? - that said, yes, I prefer Spain and the way of life there - but not without enough money to live on or without my family

So, if you want a forum full of promise and perfection, then you need to find one that deals in fairy tales. We're not trying to put people off, but what do you want said when people ask the questions?? Yes, it'll be fine and you wont lose anything or regret it???? "Go for it"??? That doesnt answer their questions honestly does it!

jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> I think I will leave my rose coloured specs on, as I prefer to look on lifes positives than the negatives like you obviously do. On my side of things my children are playing outdoors compared to being stuck inside in winter in the UK, my standard of living has improved by being in Spain and generally I am enjoying life a lot more. Sorry if that seems to irk you, but I can only tell you how I feel.



Didn't see this post which again misses the point. 
I do not see the negative side of things....I point out FACTS.
I'm glad your standard of living has improved by moving to Spain. As I've been fortunate enough to have always enjoyed a good standard of living mine hasn't improved apart from enjoyiong a lot more sun...but that's not the be-all and end-all of life, is it...a few hours of sun???
True, we didn't have a pool in our house in the UK and the pool we had in our house in Prague could be used for fewer months than our pool in Spain.
But as Jo has also asked...what is a better life?
For me, a good life is one where I have my health, my family and friends, my books, enough resources to live a comfortable life,my other interests....
Some people take their problems with them wherever they go....others take their contentment.
If all I needed for a good life was sun, a big house and a swimming pool I'd check in to a therapist or priest.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Well I didn't need to work, but it turns out I am. Very bad planning on my part...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> Well I didn't need to work, but it turns out I am. Very bad planning on my part...


the same happened to me 

I stopped work to look after my little kids long before we moved to Spain...........& had every intention of keeping it that way

then I got a bit bored.............then someone said 'can you help my daughter with her maths homework - I'll pay of course'.............and so it went on




I really _do_ intend to stop work completely within 2 years though


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I really _do_ intend to stop work completely within 2 years though


 you'll get bored and you wont have little kids......... unless you're planning to..... :tape:

Jo xxx


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## el_cartero (Jan 23, 2011)

good luck to everyone making a go of it in spain - paradise

the uk is a ****ty island but there is more chance of making some cash here


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> you'll get bored and you wont have little kids......... unless you're planning to..... :tape:
> 
> Jo xxx


thankfully there is NO WAY that will happen 

I probably will get bored though 

OH has promised to try & retire in 3 years - so I might just make it having a year sort of to myself


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Well, here's one happy little boy who made the move today in the opposite direction - from Spain to the UK. ADANA's first UK adoption since the law was changed on January 1st. Hopefully he's the first of many.
Cinnamon, now to be known as Pedro, is off to a new home in Humberside. Sandra with a very contented Pedro before his great journey.







.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

el_cartero said:


> good luck to everyone making a go of it in spain - paradise
> 
> the uk is a ****ty island but there is more chance of making some cash here


Wrong on two counts, Cartero.
Spain is not paradise. Ask five million unemployed Spaniards. Life here as anywhere in the world is good if you have enough to live on comfortably.
And the UK is not a ****ty island. I don't know how much experience you've had of living abroad...not much, I'd guess....but the longer you live outside the UK the more you appreciate the very many good things about it.
In the UK , no-one starves. The welfare state is more generous than that in nearly every other country...too generous, some would say. Much more chance of getting a job with better pay, even for menial work.
There is also more transparency and accountability in the UK. Read the thread about the experience of the woman with the lying Guardia Civil officers. Of course there are corrupt police and judges in the UK but complain loudly enough and the chances are 99% that you will be listened to.
I really think you need to live outside the UK for a few years before running it down.
I had a good life in the UK. I received a good education, had a good job, good health care. In many countries, including some I've lived in, that wouldn't have been the case.
I used to run the UK down when I was young and ignorant. A few years' experience away from it and I began to appreciate the very many good things that more than outweigh the bad.


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## el_cartero (Jan 23, 2011)

like i say theres money to be made here but u wont wake up to any sunshine or have that feeling your abroad so whats that money worth.

the uk runs you down where as spain seems to charge me up . edinburghs full to the brim of junkies on the dole living all around people who work yet they seem to have the life of larry .

Im glad im not a junkie and have worked to pay off my mortgage which gives me the chance to get the hell out and go sit pool side in the sun of spain.

buenos noches


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

el_cartero said:


> like i say theres money to be made here but u wont wake up to any sunshine or have that feeling your abroad so whats that money worth.
> 
> the uk runs you down where as spain seems to charge me up . edinburghs full to the brim of junkies on the dole living all around people who work yet they seem to have the life of larry .
> 
> ...


I dont understand most of your comments, but I'm glad you're not a junkie too!!??! The part of your comment I've highlighted in red I think I disagree with, but then we live in opposite ends of the country, I'm in sussex and altho it is miserable cos the UK always feels it, I think when I left Spain there was a sense of despair coming. Alot more beggars around, a lot more graffiti and sooooo many closed and empty shops

Jo xxx


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## el_cartero (Jan 23, 2011)

haha i guess its just my job - postman - drains the hell out of me lol

really? what a shame on the beggers hope there not ex pats


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## el_cartero (Jan 23, 2011)

i know how u feel spain isnt allways the prettiest and best moments in life but nothing like the plane back and having the rain splatter the window

welcome home ..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

el_cartero said:


> i know how u feel spain isnt allways the prettiest and best moments in life but nothing like the plane back and having the rain splatter the window
> 
> welcome home ..


If sunshine is all you want out of life, good luck to you.
Personally, I think there's a lot more to a 'good life' than sitting by a pool but as they say. Sobre los gustos no hay disputos.
Being a postman is in my view an extremely important job. Where I lived in the UK, the postman was vital to the community. S/he noticed when curtains in an elderly person's home were left undrawn for days, was sometimes the only person a lonely old - or young - person spoke to. Don't belittle your job...it's an essential one which isn't given the recognition or pay it deserves.
I can understand someone living in Scotland wanting better weather as my partner is Glaswegian. We had intended to move back to Glasgow when we're really ol;d but changed that decision after I visited Glasgow for a Conference last April and nearly froze my **** off.
I think once you have actually spent a few months in Spain you will have a more realistic view of life here.
By the way, Spain has more than its fair share of drunks, junkies, whores...all the detritus of modern society.
These things are not unique to Scotland.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> By the way, Spain has more than its fair share of drunks, junkies, whores...all the detritus of modern society.
> These things are not unique to Scotland.


 I suppose you could say that because there isnt the same level of welfare and dole in Spain that there could be more crime and illegal activities to fund drug addiction etc???????

Jo xxx


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

I really enjoy reading these threads! It's a miserable Sunday morning/afternoon here in the UK and I wish I could have some of that Andalucian sunshine in which to have a stroll. I don't so I have just read all 7 pages.

I particularly like mrypg9 comment...

"_What chance do you think unskilled, non-Spanish-speaking, sometimes inexperienced and sadly often *semi-literate* people from any country have of finding decent employment?_"

I think it's succinct and to the point. Sadly if you do fall into that category your view of the world is rather limited and probably doesn't extend to an interest in current affairs, political events and generally the social-economic situation in your own country let alone a foreign one!

I am not a prolific poster here as you can tell, as I generally frequent another property related Spanish forum, but I have been a lurker for many years. 

Having a Spanish wife of many years and being indoctrinated into Spanish culture, and taking an unhealthy interest in Spanish economics, I am confident in saying that those that fit into the above description by mrypg9 have absolutely no chance of surviving in Spain today, or for the foreseeable future.

Spanish culture puts Spanish people first regardless of their ability. Do you think you would see the Madrid bus company running a recruitment campaign exclusive to Poland only, excluding all native Spanish drivers as TfL has just done!

In addition Spain is on it's knees economically and it's going to get a lot worse.

Unless someone is professionally qualified and their skills are in short supply in the Spanish economy they stand a zero to just above zero chance of surviving. Sadly entertainment skills do not fit the above category.

To those that run down the UK..

You need to live life a bit more, see other countries, interact with other nationalities that live in the UK and you will soon realise that the UK offers unparalleled aspects of life from free education, free healthcare, free social security, human rights, respect for property, accountability in public office etc, etc, the list goes on.

Spain offers only one thing above the UK and that is sunshine!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jp1 said:


> *I really enjoy reading these threads! It's a miserable Sunday morning/afternoon here in the UK and I wish I could have some of that Andalucian sunshine in which to have a stroll. I don't so I have just read all 7 pages.
> 
> I particularly like mrypg9 comment...
> 
> ...


Wow! What an absolutely brilliant and accurate post! 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jp1 said:


> I really enjoy reading these threads! It's a miserable Sunday morning/afternoon here in the UK and I wish I could have some of that Andalucian sunshine in which to have a stroll. I don't so I have just read all 7 pages.
> 
> I particularly like mrypg9 comment...
> 
> ...


I agree with much of what you have said and it refrreshing to have it said by someone else, not "just" the regular posters. You should have a look at this thread too where there was some criticism of the way information is at times relayed.
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/102609-site.html

BTW sunshine is to be had in _nearly_ all parts of Spain, but not all and if you look at the temperatures you'll see much of Spain has been at 0º or below at some time over the weekend


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jp1 said:


> I really enjoy reading these threads! It's a miserable Sunday morning/afternoon here in the UK and I wish I could have some of that Andalucian sunshine in which to have a stroll. I don't so I have just read all 7 pages.
> 
> I particularly like mrypg9 comment...
> 
> ...


Please post more frequently.


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Dont think its fair to make such comments about someone who is classed as semi iliterate and the way they may think or feel about certain subjects.abit to much sterotyping going on there imho. yes the uk has a lot of good things but maybe that iliterate person came from a working class family and they were earmarked for failure before they even started school because of where they came from and their class. does that sort of prejudice go on in spain? 

re the polish workers. do spanish companies have problems with lazy spanish workers so they prefer to hire from abroad. because they know the locals would rather earn more in benefits sitting at home than someone who goes out to work.thats the great social security system for you i know someone with five kids by as many diff men and they get more in benefits in a year than i do working outside till 4am freezing my bits off for nine months of the year (not a few days or weeks) they dont bother working cause they say they will lose benefits and be worse off if they worked..at least in spain u actually get nothing unless u have paid in.and god forbid family is supposed to help each other.
anyway please ignore my ramblings. i was working till 4am this morning dealing with p****** up brits throwing up and beating the crap out of each other on the streets cause thats all they have to do each weekend with their money


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lucie123 said:


> Dont think its fair to make such comments about someone who is classed as semi iliterate and the way they may think or feel about certain subjects.abit to much sterotyping going on there imho. yes the uk has a lot of good things but i maybe that iliterate person came from a working class family and they were earmarked for failure before they even started school because of where they came from and their class. does that sort of prejudice go on in spain?
> 
> re the polish workers. do spanish companies have problems with lazy spanish workers so they prefer to hire from abroad. because they know the locals would rather earn more in benefits sitting at home than someone who goes out to work.thats the great social security system for you.at least in spain u actually get nothing unless u have paid in.and god forbid family is supposed to help each other.
> anyway please ignore my ramblings. i was working till 4am this morning dealing with p****** up brits throwing up and beating the crap out of each other on the streets cause thats all they have to do each weekend with their money


That is not a nice thing to have to do. They do it in Spain too, sadly. 
I'm guessing you're in the UK.
Your remarks about working-class people are way off the mark, though. 
My origins are as working-class as anyone's. My mum, a widow, scrubbed other people's floors for a living. Yet because she encouraged me to make the most of the education I was given I managed to get to University and have a good professional job. I was never 'earmarked for failure' and nor were any of the working-class students I taught in later life. The prejudice you describe is rare, although it sadly exists.
If someone is semi-literate then they are, sadly, just that. It may be their fault or the fault of their family or school. But if they are unable to spell, use grammar correctly or punctuate, that's an accurate description.
As for Polish etc. workers being more reliable, better educated etc...that seems to be a commonly-held view amongst British employers.
I cannot comment from personal experience as we employed only British workers in our companies. Most were good employees and were well rewarded.
Some were idle useless couldn't-care-less types.
They didn't stay with us long, though.


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

oh and dont get me started on pensions and public sector workers retiring at 55 no doubt to spain lol while everyone else works till they drop to fund their lifestyle. theres my stupid dad working since he was 16 and now at 63 starting a new job cause he needs to keep working till hes 65 at least in order to get a measly pension after being a victim of eq life pension fund collapse. no help from the goverment there.so himself and the rest of our family will leave the uk when he retires because they refuse to spend the small amount of savings they have on huge gas and council tax bills which is used to pay those public pensions. you have to pay N.I contributions for 30 years to get a state pension so whys he still paying when hes been working and paying in for over 40 years. yet a friend of mine who works for the state is going on about retiring at 55 because in his words hes done his 30 years of work!. 

thats the wonderful uk for. you.rant over i promise!!


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> That is not a nice thing to have to do. They do it in Spain too, sadly.
> I'm guessing you're in the UK.
> Your remarks about working-class people are way off the mark, though.
> My origins are as working-class as anyone's. My mum, a widow, scrubbed other people's floors for a living. Yet because she encouraged me to make the most of the education I was given I managed to get to University and have a good professional job. I was never 'earmarked for failure' and nor were any of the working-class students I taught in later life. The prejudice you describe is rare, although it sadly exists.
> ...


im glad you did well for youself .of course theres always people who have tough upbringings who go on to do well. but im only commenting on personal experience from family and people i know.sadly in the uk a heck of alot of sterotyping goes on with young people and whats expected or not expected of them before they have even got through the door.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lucie123 said:


> im glad you did well for youself .of course theres always people who have tough upbringings who go on to do well. but im only commenting on personal experience from family and people i know.sadly in the uk a heck of alot of sterotyping goes on with young people and whats expected or not expected of them before they have even got through the door.


Now there I do agree with you, sort of. It's not stereotyping though, imo it's low expectations from some teachers and employers but also low aspirations from some kinds from less well-off backgrounds.
Where do you get the idea of public sector workers reiring at fifty-five? I know many public sector workers and they most certainly do not retire at fifty-five.
More likely to be made redundant now, with the cuts in public spending.
Most public sector workers are low-paid. They do jobs we couldn't do without. They work in care homes, sweep the streets, work in hospitals. They are nurses, teachers, doctors, policemen.
I would suggest they are without exception more useful than barmaids, professional footballers, workers in the gaming industry, sex workers, Z list celebrities and most A list celebs, to name only a few occupations we could live without.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lucie123 said:


> Dont think its fair to make such comments about someone who is classed as semi iliterate and the way they may think or feel about certain subjects.abit to much sterotyping going on there imho. yes the uk has a lot of good things but maybe that iliterate person came from a working class family and they were earmarked for failure before they even started school because of where they came from and their class. does that sort of prejudice go on in spain?
> 
> re the polish workers. do spanish companies have problems with lazy spanish workers so they prefer to hire from abroad. because they know the locals would rather earn more in benefits sitting at home than someone who goes out to work.thats the great social security system for you i know someone with five kids by as many diff men and they get more in benefits in a year than i do working outside till 4am freezing my bits off for nine months of the year (not a few days or weeks) they dont bother working cause they say they will lose benefits and be worse off if they worked..at least in spain u actually get nothing unless u have paid in.and god forbid family is supposed to help each other.
> anyway please ignore my ramblings. i was working till 4am this morning dealing with p****** up brits throwing up and beating the crap out of each other on the streets cause thats all they have to do each weekend with their money


I agree stereotyping is a terrible thing, but I think it's just as likely, if not more so to happen in Spain. It's a much more conservative country in some ways and in some areas. 

For me, if I see someone posting on the forum who can barely put a sentence together in English, asking about looking for work in Spain... the answer is going to be pretty negative.

PS Where are you working?


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Apart from people who due to poor education cannot string a decent post together there are also those who appear to be incapable of reading the forum rules. 
Rule 6 states
All posts on this site must be in English.Non English language posts including abbreviations like text speak are not permitted on the forum.


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Now there I do agree with you, sort of. It's not stereotyping though, imo it's low expectations from some teachers and employers but also low aspirations from some kinds from less well-off backgrounds.
> Where do you get the idea of public sector workers reiring at fifty-five? I know many public sector workers and they most certainly do not retire at fifty-five.
> More likely to be made redundant now, with the cuts in public spending.
> Most public sector workers are low-paid. They do jobs we couldn't do without. They work in care homes, sweep the streets, work in hospitals. They are nurses, teachers, doctors, policemen.
> I would suggest they are without exception more useful than barmaids, professional footballers, workers in the gaming industry, sex workers, Z list celebrities and most A list celebs, to name only a few occupations we could live without.


Re the kids. but where does the low expectations come from though? from thinking these kids come from the local council estate so we shouldnt expect them to come to anything anyway.lets just concentrate on the kids that will help us get up the league tables. that to me is sterotyping.and when kids know they arent expected to make anything of themselves it becomes a vicious cylce.

the idea comes from teachers friends of the family who retired at 55 after being able to claim their pensions after 30 years of paying into the system. my next door neighbours son whos just retired from my local council at 55 on a nice final salary scheme.my work collegue that i mentioned above who says hes done his 30 years so can retire at 55 from the council. police officers amongst others that can or used to be able to retire after 30 years service. meaning in some jobs some are not even starting work till their mid 20's after going to uni and are retiring in their mid 50's. yet you have others who start work at 16 and have to work till they are 65.paying more into the system yet getting less back.

yes many public workers are in load paid manual jobs.i have a friend whos a bin man walks 20 plus miles a day and earns around 17k a year. and yes those types of ppl are on small pensions. but you would expect that as they are on low wages. try and find someone in the private sector that even has a pension when they are earning that sort of money. The maths dont add up when someone in the public sector on a low paid job has a better pension than someone in the private sector paying in and or earning at least twice as much. it ridiculous and unjust that someone should keep having to pay N.I contributions after 30 years just to pay for those who retired early.if u pay in more than 30 you should get an increased state pension or be able to stop paying at the 30 year marker.why should someone who paid into the system for nearly fifty years get the same as someone whos only paid in thirty cause they were lucky enough to work for the state. alot over the years who lose jobs later in life ended up on incapacity so got early retirement that way.thankfully the goverment are changing that now


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Anyway i seem to have taken this off topic.apologies folks


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree stereotyping is a terrible thing, but I think it's just as likely, if not more so to happen in Spain. It's a much more conservative country in some ways and in some areas.
> 
> For me, if I see someone posting on the forum who can barely put a sentence together in English, asking about looking for work in Spain... the answer is going to be pretty negative.
> 
> PS Where are you working?


Yeah i understand your point of course about looking for work in spain and not being able to write properly but the post i was commenting about just implyed that just because you might not be the greatest at spelling etc that means you are some ignorant fool who doesnt care to read about social or economic issues in your own country let alone another. Kinda hard to judge people when alot tend to be sloppy when writing on the net.

where am i working? do you mean which country or just what sort of job i do.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lucie123 said:


> Yeah i understand your point of course about looking for work in spain and not being able to write properly but the post i was commenting about just implyed that just because you might not be the greatest at spelling etc that means you are some ignorant fool who doesnt care to read about social or economic issues in your own country let alone another. Kinda hard to judge people when alot tend to be sloppy when writing on the net.
> 
> .


Ahhh, no - not at all!



> where am i working? do you mean which country or just what sort of job i do


Working I meant job, 'cos you're in Spain, aren't you?


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

No im in the uk. plan to make a move in 2 years or so

sorry if the comment wasnt ment that way by the original poster. it just gave me that impression (sorry im on my phone so cant copy and paste. im replying to your "ahhh no"comment)


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Nothing wrong in retiring at 55 if you've paid your money in and have a good enough pension. Sadly they are stopping it for younger nurses.


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## Lawrence brown (May 24, 2009)

I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 eurocents worth.
Although I am in the group of people hoping to move to Spain, I am in general agreement with a lot of the sentiments in this thread.
Although I don't for example agree that you need 2000 Euros+ a month to survive, I don't earn that much here in the UK!
The fact is that it is cheaper to live in Spain.
However reality MUST kick in here, the job situation is dire in Spain as well as the UK, and if you are going to have to look for work then do it before you travel.
It is not a good plan to turn up with a two week reservation in an all inclusive hotel hoping to find an apartment/house and a job before the "holiday" finishes.
Just to let you know where I am coming from, I already own a house outright in Spain, although it needs a lot of work to live in.
I am a Scuba diving instructor with promises of work, a Chef an electronics engineer, computer guru and have a multitude of other practical skills. My wife is a Divemaster, qualified Book Keeper, and a Master Baker (She was once the head Baker of the Dorchester Hotel)
I have enough land to feed about 20 families and the experience to grow the food on it.
I also have a five year old daughter who will need to learn Spanish in order to enter a school where she will have no friends.
I have no plans to move any time soon!
Unless you have employment and somewhere to live, in place, before you travel then DONT, stay at home until you do.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Lawrence brown said:


> I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 eurocents worth.
> Although I am in the group of people hoping to move to Spain, I am in general agreement with a lot of the sentiments in this thread.
> Although I don't for example agree that you need 2000 Euros+ a month to survive, I don't earn that much here in the UK!
> The fact is that it is cheaper to live in Spain.
> ...


You sound like someone with his head screwed on although I beg to differ on one thing... cost of living! A few years ago I would agree it was cheaper here but now i think there is very little in it. If you consider the exchange rate and how it has changed from when i first came out and was aroun 1.50 or more, electiricty is expensive, food has skyrocketed, fuel is similar to the uk now, cars are more expensive than the uk etc

Yes some things are cheaper (road tax, etc) but I wouldnt say that spain on the whole is any cheaper then the UK especially if you are self employed and paying autonomo taxes!


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## Lawrence brown (May 24, 2009)

I meant it is cheaper than 2000 euros a month, not cheaper than the UK.
Although I can see where most holiday makers would assume that.
Booze is cheaper, Tobacco is cheaper, and food is still cheaper if you stick to Spanish products!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Lawrence brown said:


> I meant it is cheaper than 2000 euros a month, not cheaper than the UK.
> Although I can see where most holiday makers would assume that.
> Booze is cheaper, Tobacco is cheaper, and food is still cheaper if you stick to Spanish products!


booze and **** yes definately... jury is still out on food... i think it you compared supermarket own brands with spanish local stuff theres not a lot in it... having said that i cant remember the last time i went shopping in the uk to compare... things are definately on the up here... i guess for many expats (me included until a couple of years ago) its hard to live without your food things that you know and are used to... and if you go to iceland or even the british isles in any main supermarket you pay a fortune.... nearly 2 euros for a tin or corned beef! uff!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> booze and **** yes definately... jury is still out on food... i think it you compared supermarket own brands with spanish local stuff theres not a lot in it... having said that i cant remember the last time i went shopping in the uk to compare... things are definately on the up here... i guess for many expats (me included until a couple of years ago) its hard to live without your food things that you know and are used to... and if you go to iceland or even the british isles in any main supermarket you pay a fortune.... nearly 2 euros for a tin or corned beef! uff!


I'm in the UK atm

last week I went to Tesco & tried to do a 'like for like' shop - only a week after doing the same at home in Spain - just to compare cos I knew someone would ask 

it was hard - the fresh meat, veg & fruit was def. not of a similar quality as in Spain so I bought much less of it

two examples: a similarly priced fresh chicken was much smaller, scrawny & pretty tasteless

mandarin oranges - I bought 6 whereas I'd usually buy 3kg - yes I expect them to be cheaper in Spain - but even they were wasted cos they tasted & smelled disgusting & of some sort of chemical

I found myself buying packaged pre-prepared stuff which I simply wouldn't/couldn't do in Spain - simply because it was cheaper & as I was mentally adding up my bill as I filled the trolley I was starting to panic about what it would come to

even though I had been given 2 x 5 quid off tickets by my sis in law, the bill was way more than I would spend in Spain

I spend on average 100€ a week in Spain - & we eat well - my total bill in Tescos was 120 GBP - that's over 140€ - or 110 GBP with the vouchers - that's still about 130€


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I'm in the UK atm
> 
> last week I went to Tesco & tried to do a 'like for like' shop - only a week after doing the same at home in Spain - just to compare cos I knew someone would ask
> 
> ...


Uff... well there you go then.. I learn... Spain is cheaper! I will agree completely with you on quality... the size, freshness, taste and overall standard of fresh produce just doesn't compare to spain!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Comparisons are very difficult to make, but I think food is cheaper here as is also public transport, parking and "going out stuff" like going to the pub, for a coffee a stately home, (museums no) any kind of event...


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Comparisons are very difficult to make, but I think food is cheaper here as is also public transport, parking and "going out stuff" like going to the pub, for a coffee a stately home, (museums no) any kind of event...


What about car insurance in peoples opions? I have a merc 2 years old and in the UK I could get it insured for about 300 here i pay more than 800  Although thats probably because in the UK I have endless driving and teaching qualifications which all help but here they won't accept them


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

bob_bob said:


> Nothing wrong in retiring at 55 if you've paid your money in and have a good enough pension. Sadly they are stopping it for younger nurses.


Should be one rule for all. hardly fair is it unless of course your that 55 year old retiring on a nice final salary pension while your neighbours working till they are 65 to pay for you.and thats if they are lucky. hardly fair that someone pays for 50 years into the system and gets the same as someone paying in for 30.

re car insurance i went on a few spanish sites and for a toyota yaris which is what i have here is was about 450 euro. but that includes breakdown which you dont get in the uk. i pay about £320 in the so when you add on breakdown its prob abit more expensive in spain


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> Uff... well there you go then.. I learn... Spain is cheaper! I will agree completely with you on quality... the size, freshness, taste and overall standard of fresh produce just doesn't compare to spain!


actually no -I don't think Spain is cheaper overall - just food & maybe property rental

I have also looked at property rental prices near to where I'm staying - a pokey 3 bed terrace/semi would cost about what I currently pay for a huge 5 bed town house (use of 2 pools & a gym included in rent)

after you add council tax it would probably add up to much more

BUT

so many essential things are much cheaper here in the UK

decent clothes at a reasonable price

internet/TV/phone

furniture - I've seen ads on TV for buying what looks like reasonable sofas for 10 quid a week - interest free - adds up to about half what a similar looking sofa would cost in the UK

I think the truth of the matter is what a lot of us have been saying for quite a while - overall there's probably not much in it


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## rangitoto (Apr 25, 2011)

cant belive that you say that there is not much the difference between the uk and spain at home in the uk £380 pa water here in spain 13 euros per month good coffee in a bar 1euro coffee in a bar uk £1.85 a beer in our local at home £3.20 a pint. here in spain 1.50euro and its expensive here food quality and price no comparision prescription charges 4 items 9.80 euros wow do i miss the uk


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rangitoto said:


> cant belive that you say that there is not much the difference between the uk and spain at home in the uk £380 pa water here in spain 13 euros per month good coffee in a bar 1euro coffee in a bar uk £1.85 a beer in our local at home £3.20 a pint. here in spain 1.50euro and its expensive here food quality and price no comparision prescription charges 4 items 9.80 euros wow do i miss the uk



The water depends on where you are and how much you use, coffee and beer in bars is only applicable if you drink beer and coffee in bars in either country and prescriptions depends again on how often you need them and whether you're exempt in the UK!

But Spain is cheaper on the whole. The UKs prices are on the rise in supermarkets etc, altho they have better deals in the UK (agreed on the standard of food in the UK - crap!!). The exchange rate makes things cheaper in Spain. That said, you also need to take into account things that are more expensive, like cars, white goods, PCs, internet etc. Theres not much difference in petrol or electricity prices, clothes...

Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Lucie123 said:


> Should be one rule for all. hardly fair is it unless of course your that 55 year old retiring on a nice final salary pension while your neighbours working till they are 65 to pay for you.and thats if they are lucky. hardly fair that someone pays for 50 years into the system and gets the same as someone paying in for 30.


30 is the minimum number of years to get a full, basic state pension. But anyone working and paying in more than this has extra added to their pension accordingly. (Not that much, I know, but it does make a difference how many years you work over the 30 minimum).

As for taking early retirement, my husband took early retirement. Not because he wanted to (he prefers to work), but because he was made redundant and couldn't find new work. And as he took early retirement, his state pension, when he received it, despite receiving credits for time worked over 30 years, was less than had he worked to the age of 65.

I do see your point that those who cannot retire early are still paying into the system with their NI payments.
But those who retire early and receive private pensions do still pay tax.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

rangitoto said:


> cant belive that you say that there is not much the difference between the uk and spain at home in the uk £380 pa water here in spain 13 euros per month good coffee in a bar 1euro coffee in a bar uk £1.85 a beer in our local at home £3.20 a pint. here in spain 1.50euro and its expensive here food quality and price no comparision prescription charges 4 items 9.80 euros wow do i miss the uk


The water rates in the UK include sewage disposal. Here you pay for that separately, and water is metered.

We pay one euro for a beer here, but it is less than a third of a pint! Similarly we pay €2 for a glass of Rioja but it's often less than half a standard glass. Still cheaper over the night because you drink much less.

Coffee - definitely cheaper and better in Spain. I can't believe the rubbish they serve in the UK disguised as coffee!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> We pay one euro for a beer here, but it is less than a third of a pint!


So do we, but along with that beer we get a very large plate filled with free tapas. 
Most of the workers around here get their lunch at the local bar and are very well fed.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lucie123 said:


> Should be one rule for all. hardly fair is it unless of course your that 55 year old retiring on a nice final salary pension while your neighbours working till they are 65 to pay for you.and thats if they are lucky. hardly fair that someone pays for 50 years into the system and gets the same as someone paying in for 30.


I retired at 55 on a final salary pension (not that big!) but my neighbours aren't working to pay for me. I won't get anything from the British taxpayer till I qualify for my old age pension in 2014, and arguably I will only be getting back what I put in after working for 32 years. I won't get any pension credits or other benefits because I don't live in the UK.

My job went to a 25-year-old who was just starting a family. Don't you think it's selfish in times of high unemployment to work for longer than you have to?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Solwriter said:


> So do we, but along with that beer we get a very large plate filled with free tapas.
> Most of the workers around here get their lunch at the local bar and are very well fed.


Yes, I remember from when we went to Granada - you didn't need to buy a meal!

Here you might get a bowl of olives or some nuts with a beer (nothing with wine). But you can get some great tapas for €1.50.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

rangitoto said:


> cant belive that you say that there is not much the difference between the uk and spain at home in the uk £380 pa water here in spain 13 euros per month good coffee in a bar 1euro coffee in a bar uk £1.85 a beer in our local at home £3.20 a pint. here in spain 1.50euro and its expensive here food quality and price no comparision prescription charges 4 items 9.80 euros wow do i miss the uk


I really think it's swings and roundabouts -and as jojo says it depends on your priorites

I sincerely believe that year on year there is very little difference in the cost of actually _living_ in the two countries


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

I think it's probably harder to compare now because many prices are rising so quickly at the moment, but I was surprised at just how many things seemed to be more expensive in Spain. 

There also seems to be more variation around different areas in Spain. I know my daughter lives in one of the more expensive areas so her rent for a one bed flat, is the same as in most areas of Scotland, and more then many spend to rent a lovely, large house in other areas of Spain. Contents insurance seemed to be similarly priced.

In her area, eating out and drinking isn't very cheap either. An alcoholic drink is usually at least 4 to 6 euros (and much more in some places). I have yet to find a decent cup of coffee - I always seem to get a tiny cup of little more than hot milk! A tiny plate of tapas is at least 3.50e. It's easy to spend, say 40-50 euros on a meal for 2, with a glass of wine each - and still be hungry - and I'm not that greedy honest!

I think many things in the supermarket are more expensive, especially toiletries and cleaning materials.

Clothes are definitely cheaper in the UK. She even bought opaque tights at home at Xmas - the cheapest she could find in Spain were 9 euros, they are £4 in Tesco and even that is a lot more than they were not so long ago. I often look at the price tags which show prices in both pounds and euros - way cheaper to buy in sterling.

Electrical goods are expensive - I flatly refused to pay 40e for the cheapest shredder which would have been under £20 in Argos - or £35 for a keyboard stand which is 15e on Amazon.

We had to make a trip to Ikea for an assortment of small kitchen utensils, homeware, pillows, towels, etc. as they were two to three times the price I would expect to pay, in Al Campo and other local shops.

Even things like a packet of printer paper was expensive, about 6e, and could easily be bought in the UK for £2.

So I'd agree that overall, the cost of living is pretty similar - for everything that's cheaper in Spain, something else is dearer.

P.S. anybody else noticed how much flights seem to have increased - maybe less noticeable if you can do a single flight into one of the main airports in England, but horrendous if you need connecting flights from Scotland!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> I think it's probably harder to compare now because many prices are rising so quickly at the moment, but I was surprised at just how many things seemed to be more expensive in Spain.
> 
> There also seems to be more variation around different areas in Spain. I know my daughter lives in one of the more expensive areas so her rent for a one bed flat, is the same as in most areas of Scotland, and more then many spend to rent a lovely, large house in other areas of Spain. Contents insurance seemed to be similarly priced.
> 
> ...


Where *does *your daughter live

I couldn't afford to live there!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Where *does *your daughter live
> 
> I couldn't afford to live there!


Marbella! That's where the job is!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> Marbella! That's where the job is!


Ok. That explains it!
Hope the salary fits the area


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

brocher said:


> I think it's probably harder to compare now because many prices are rising so quickly at the moment, but I was surprised at just how many things seemed to be more expensive in Spain.
> 
> There also seems to be more variation around different areas in Spain. I know my daughter lives in one of the more expensive areas so her rent for a one bed flat, is the same as in most areas of Scotland, and more then many spend to rent a lovely, large house in other areas of Spain. Contents insurance seemed to be similarly priced.
> 
> ...


Obviously *does* depend where you live. For us Spain is much cheaper. Printer paper €2 Shredder €18, Coffee decent sized glass of really nice coffee €1,20- 1,40 but then we live inland.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Daft as it sounds, I've checked out the printer paper in quite a few places, as it was one of the little things that really surprised me - and it really does seem to be about 6e in that area at least!

PS.can anyone tell me what to order to get a decent cup of coffee - black coffee with a little cold milk? Every cafe con leche has just been little more than hot milK - maybe because it's a tourist area???


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

brocher said:


> Daft as it sounds, I've checked out the printer paper in quite a few places, as it was one of the little things that really surprised me - and it really does seem to be about 6e in that area at least!
> 
> PS.can anyone tell me what to order to get a decent cup of coffee - black coffee with a little cold milk? Every cafe con leche has just been little more than hot milK - maybe because it's a tourist area???


this might help 




maybe a cortado, although that's with steamed milk??


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> this might help Siesta Show #52 - How to order coffee in Spain - YouTube
> 
> maybe a cortado, although that's with steamed milk??


Excellent, just what I needed. I must have been getting a "manchado" every time! 

I will memorise a "cortado mut poca leche," or maybe it would be easier for me just to remember a "carajillo"!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> Excellent, just what I needed. I must have been getting a "manchado" every time!
> 
> I will memorise a "cortado mut poca leche," or maybe it would be easier for me just to remember a "carajillo"!


That's what I thought it sounded like. Normally coffee is a bit too strong for me in Madrid and Bilbao. Maybe it's different down there.
PS Cortado *con *poca leche (although it's usually just a splash of milk, so to make a splash little is quite difficult)
I always ask for cafe con leche, *corto de café *so it's not too strong. I don't think it's a very common way to ask, but it does the job


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's what I thought it sounded like. Normally coffee is a bit too strong for me in Madrid and Bilbao. Maybe it's different down there.
> PS Cortado *con *poca leche (although it's usually just a splash of milk, so to make a splash little is quite difficult)
> I always ask for cafe con leche, *corto de café *so it's not too strong. I don't think it's a very common way to ask, but it does the job



Sorry, typo, meant cortado *muy* poca leche. 

Will try ordering your version, too!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

_Americano con una gotita de leche templada_ works too.

Officially _manchado_ should be feminine as it´s the milk that is "stained" with coffee, not the other way round. But round here everyone says _manchao,_

Ask for it _en tasa_ if you don't like the handle-less glasses,


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## therustynail (Feb 13, 2012)

*Don't go*

This is perhaps the worst time to move to spain. I totally agree with the comments above. Give it a couple of years and then assess the economic situation. If you go, you will live to regret it and will be back in the UK within 6 months. Thats me being optimistic.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Admittedly I've not been to Spain for a few months due to health issues, but unless they have dropped prices in the Supermarkets I'd say Spain is dearer overall than the UK. Some fruit and veg may be cheaper but the only reason my food bill would be lower over there was because the range of food there is less so I'd buy less.

Dash it all, couldn't even get a jar of Patum Peperium over there, the country has gone to the dogs!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

On the subject of hot drinks in Spain ... 
I find it difficult to get a chocolate caliente where the spoon doesn't stand up in the cup!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> On the subject of hot drinks in Spain ...
> I find it difficult to get a chocolate caliente where the spoon doesn't stand up in the cup!


Ask for Cola Cao. The thing is it's really sweet, so if you haven't got a sweet tooth... I buy cocoa powder and put my own (minimal) sugar in. Of course that doesn't help in a bar.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ask for Cola Cao. The thing is it's really sweet, so if you haven't got a sweet tooth... I buy cocoa powder and put my own (minimal) sugar in. Of course that doesn't help in a bar.


or she could try Choleck caliente 

I prefer the thick hot chocolate usually - but hot choleck with a brandy in it is lovely when it's cold out


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> or she could try Choleck caliente
> 
> I prefer the thick hot chocolate usually - but hot choleck with a brandy in it is lovely when it's cold out


Never heard of it!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Never heard of it!


it's a ready made chocolate milkshake in a bottle


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> it's a ready made chocolate milkshake in a bottle


Thanks!
Ill check it out. 

Cola Cao is much too sweet for me. I like my hot chocolate to taste of chocolate (I _love_ chocolate), but not sugar.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I enjoy a La Mumba or three myself, home made with Bournville Cocoa Powder of course  That said, anything containing milk/cream, chocolate and brandy suits me...Brandy Alexander...I can hear one calling my name later this evening


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> I enjoy a La Mumba or three myself, home made with Bournville Cocoa Powder of course  That said, anything containing milk/cream, chocolate and brandy suits me...Brandy Alexander...I can hear one calling my name later this evening


Me toooooooooooo!


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