# Mexico's car industry selling unsafe cars



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I usually skip the threads on the forum dealing with cars because I don't have one and haven't driven since 1970. However, this article really disturbed me and has prompted me to post this link: EarthLink - Top News. Feedback from forum members who have bought Mexican-made cars or who are thinking of doing so could be very helpful.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Well, Isla; an interesting article and one that I will keep in mind. I must say that we heve been driving a Mexican manufactured Nissan XTrail we bought in Guadalajara in 2004 for nine years now and have even experienced a couple of accidents in that car - one very serious - and we swear by that car. It is the best car I have ever owned since I bought my first (U.S. made) car in 1966. However, as that XTrail, while extremely reliable and safe over the years, is getting to an age where we are thinking about buying a new car made in Mexico because we drive between Lake Chapala and Chiapas several times a year and, thus, think a new car might be a good idea at some point soon. I can only report unqualified good news about my 2004 Nissan XTrail and have been considering buying something similar in the next few months but would like to hear other opinions.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The article is right on target and most expat residents are aware of those differences. It is unfortunate and I hope the situation might change one day. However, profit drives industry; not humanity. The only hope is that some manufacturers might decide to consider economy of scale and make one model of each vehicle, which meets the higher standard required by the world market. That said, US and European standards are probably equal in safety features, but different it inconsequential details, due to protectionism driven by individual national lobbies for the sake of their domestic manufacturers. That is also unfair.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

I wish the environmentalists who scream about pollution in the U.S. would come to Mexico and get a whiff of exhaust fumes. Mexico has it's pluses, but their emissions standards aren't one of them.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> I wish the environmentalists who scream about pollution in the U.S. would come to Mexico and get a whiff of exhaust fumes. Mexico has it's pluses, but their emissions standards aren't one of them.


No doubt those who are concerned about the deteriorating state of the environment in the US would become even more concerned about environmental problems in Mexico after spending some time driving on Mexican highways and streets, breathing in the exhaust fumes you mention.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


vantexan said:



I wish the environmentalists who scream about pollution in the U.S. would come to Mexico and get a whiff of exhaust fumes. Mexico has it's pluses, but their emissions standards aren't one of them.

Click to expand...

_I must respectfully disagree with this comment. I first visited Mexico in the 1970s driving around Mexico City and environs and the exhaust pollution was poisonous and obvious as a brown/blue haze overhanging all. The difference between those days and now in Mexico is astonishing. We drive a 2004 Nissan Xtrail in a town just outside of Guadalajara and we must meet stringent emmissions standards annually as evidenced by window stickers and documents in the glove compartment to even think of driving in that city. There are days in Mexico City we may not even contemplate driving at all at at the serious the risk of having our car confiscated. 

I am reminded of when, in the 1970s, I walked between the 12th Arrondisement at Rue de Watttignies adjacent to the Bois de Vincennes to Blvd. St. Germain on Paris´ Left Bank, a distance of a couple of kilometers and nearly passed out from the filthy air before I got there. It is unfair to compare today´s Paris or Mexico or, for that matter, Los Angeles, with the towns in which I once lived back then. All of these places now have community leaders more responsible of their duties than back in the 80s.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> I must respectfully disagree with this comment. I first visited Mexico in the 1970s driving around Mexico City and environs and the exhaust pollution was poisonous and obvious as a brown/blue haze overhanging all. The difference between those days and now in Mexico is astonishing. We drive a 2004 Nissan Xtrail in a town just outside of Guadalajara and we must meet stringent emmissions standards annually as evidenced by window stickers and documents in the glove compartment to even think of driving in that city. There are days in Mexico City we may not even contemplate driving at all at at the serious the risk of having our car confiscated.
> 
> I am reminded of when, in the 1970s, I walked between the 12th Arrondisement at Rue de Watttignies adjacent to the Bois de Vincennes to Blvd. St. Germain on Paris´ Left Bank, a distance of a couple of kilometers and nearly passed out from the filthy air before I got there. It is unfair to compare today´s Paris or Mexico or, for that matter, Los Angeles, with the towns in which I once lived back then. All of these places now have community leaders more responsible of their duties than back in the 80s.


And I've been all over the U.S. and have never, on a consistent basis, experienced the exhaust fumes I took in daily in San Miguel, one of Mexico's premiere destinations. And everywhere else we stopped in. Cleaning that up starts with building properly built vehicles. One of the main reasons I've asked here about walkable cities is an interest in finding pedestrian only streets to avoid the fumes and enjoy a good walk.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=vantexan;2496089]And I've been all over the U.S. and have never, on a consistent basis, experienced the exhaust fumes I took in daily in San Miguel, one of Mexico's premiere destinations. And everywhere else we stopped in. Cleaning that up starts with building properly built vehicles. One of the main reasons I've asked here about walkable cities is an interest in finding pedestrian only streets to avoid the fumes and enjoy a good walk.[/QUOTE]_

Well, OK, van; We find the most walkable cities in terms of the lack of obvious polluted air we have experienced in Mexico to be the areas known as "Lakeside" at Lake Chapala from the Chapala to the Jocotepec Municipalities and the greater San Cristóbal de Las Casas Municipality encompassing large parts of the Jovel Valley and surrounding areas in the Chiapas Highlands where the air is normally brilliantly clear and seemingly unpolluted. Cities such as San Crstóbal are noted for their many pedestrian only streets and crystal clear air. One caveat is that, when the temperature in the Jovel Valley heats up and the breezes begin to flow in April each year, there is a certain amount of dried and invisible human excremnt floating on the breeze which is indiscernable but, while not noxious to the nose, can make you physically illl so always remember in Mexico and many other places including East Texas, you cannot always smell and see those poisons that surround you when the breezes blow.

Guadalajara is terribly polluted but you´d never know it since the air and temperature there can be quite pleasant except in certain parts of the city. Other places with only nominal air pollution an also quite walakable except,perhaps for some hilly terrain, would include such towns as Xalapa, the Bays at Huatulco and countlesss other places around the country you must try to explore.

At Lake Chapala, many foreign expats walk along the Chapala-Jocotepec Carratera on their daily strolls beathing in auto exhaust fumes while, a short distance away there are deserted beaches with no fumes at all. If you haven´t found fresh air to breathe on your walks in Mexico, you should try again.


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## JoanneR2 (Apr 18, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I usually skip the threads on the forum dealing with cars because I don't have one and haven't driven since 1970. However, this article really disturbed me and has prompted me to post this link: EarthLink - Top News. Feedback from forum members who have bought Mexican-made cars or who are thinking of doing so could be very helpful.


Thanks for this Isla. Unfortunately this problem is just one of the reasons for deaths and injuries in car accidents. People not wearing seatbelts being one of the main ones. Although wearing them is compulsory in front seats, many of my friends believe it is not necessary in the back. I have tried explaining that a back seat passenger heading into the front at 50km per hour kills not only the passenger but also the person in the front but to no avail. This type of thing combined with talking on phones, never having taken a driving test and a complete disregard for red lights compounds the problem of less than safe new cars. I am personally more worried about getting into older vehicles which require no road worthiness tests other than for emissions...


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=vantexan;2496089]And I've been all over the U.S. and have never, on a consistent basis, experienced the exhaust fumes I took in daily in San Miguel, one of Mexico's premiere destinations. And everywhere else we stopped in. Cleaning that up starts with building properly built vehicles. One of the main reasons I've asked here about walkable cities is an interest in finding pedestrian only streets to avoid the fumes and enjoy a good walk._




Well, OK, van; We find the most walkable cities in terms of the lack of obvious polluted air we have experienced in Mexico to be the areas known as "Lakeside" at Lake Chapala from the Chapala to the Jocotepec Municipalities and the greater San Cristóbal de Las Casas Municipality encompassing large parts of the Jovel Valley and surrounding areas in the Chiapas Highlands where the air is normally brilliantly clear and seemingly unpolluted. Cities such as San Crstóbal are noted for their many pedestrian only streets and crystal clear air. One caveat is that, when the temperature in the Jovel Valley heats up and the breezes begin to flow in April each year, there is a certain amount of dried and invisible human excremnt floating on the breeze which is indiscernable but, while not noxious to the nose, can make you physically illl so always remember in Mexico and many other places including East Texas, you cannot always smell and see those poisons that surround you when the breezes blow.

Guadalajara is terribly polluted but you´d never know it since the air and temperature there can be quite pleasant except in certain parts of the city. Other places with only nominal air pollution an also quite walakable except,perhaps for some hilly terrain, would include such towns as Xalapa, the Bays at Huatulco and countlesss other places around the country you must try to explore.

At Lake Chapala, many foreign expats walk along the Chapala-Jocotepec Carratera on their daily strolls beathing in auto exhaust fumes while, a short distance away there are deserted beaches with no fumes at all. If you haven´t found fresh air to breathe on your walks in Mexico, you should try again.[/QUOTE]

It's a moot point but thanks for the info. It's moot as I convinced my wife yesterday to try living in San Cristobal part of the year, working a seasonal job for 3 months every year in Kansas so that she could spend quality time with family and friends. Then today she tells me that nothing less than having her own place in Olathe, KS near children and friends, getting jobs(if we're lucky), etc will make her happy. I'm pretty certain at this point I'll never live in Mexico again and will be lucky to visit. And this after moving in to my Mother's in NC and only paying $275 a month rent plus our own groceries. I waited until I was 51 to get married, beginning to remember why.:drama:


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Vantexan, I'm sorry it has come to this as regards your desire to move permanently to Mexico, something your wife obviously doesn't want to do. At least she finally came clean about where she is willing to live with you. I do hope you'll be able to make frequent visits to Mexico, with or without your wife.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Vantexan, I'm sorry it has come to this as regards your desire to move permanently to Mexico, something your wife obviously doesn't want to do. At least she finally came clean about where she is willing to live with you. I do hope you'll be able to make frequent visits to Mexico, with or without your wife.


Thanks Isla, it would be a shame to dream and research all these years and never actually do it.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You have my sympathy, but not too much of it. In her short time in Mexico, did she learn enough Spanish to understand what adios means? You could test that and stay in Mexico, ¿verdad? Mistakes are not so painful if they are corrected quickly and firmly.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

We know that the Mexican auto assembly plants produce amongst the best quality vehicles anywhere ... for export. I was a consultant at General Motors and Mercedes Benz in Mexico and know of the commitment of the companies' workers. In many areas, Mexico seems not to have thought its people important enough to offer various protections and safety many of us who've lived in other countries have enjoyed. Another example are the 'death trap' over-the-road busses which have accidents which probably claim 500 or more lives annually as the result of crashes. Expats rave about the quality of the busses and know only the décor. Looks can be deceiving. Thanks for linking the article.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Thanks Isla, it would be a shame to dream and research all these years and never actually do it.


I guess you'll have to make an important choice very soon ... It does sound like you and your wife have very different ideas about how to live a happy life. We're cheering for you to make a decision that will ensure your future happiness.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


vantexan said:



Well, OK, van; We find the most walkable cities in terms of the lack of obvious polluted air we have experienced in Mexico to be the areas known as "Lakeside" at Lake Chapala from the Chapala to the Jocotepec Municipalities and the greater San Cristóbal de Las Casas Municipality encompassing large parts of the Jovel Valley and surrounding areas in the Chiapas Highlands where the air is normally brilliantly clear and seemingly unpolluted. Cities such as San Crstóbal are noted for their many pedestrian only streets and crystal clear air. One caveat is that, when the temperature in the Jovel Valley heats up and the breezes begin to flow in April each year, there is a certain amount of dried and invisible human excremnt floating on the breeze which is indiscernable but, while not noxious to the nose, can make you physically illl so always remember in Mexico and many other places including East Texas, you cannot always smell and see those poisons that surround you when the breezes blow.

Guadalajara is terribly polluted but you´d never know it since the air and temperature there can be quite pleasant except in certain parts of the city. Other places with only nominal air pollution an also quite walakable except,perhaps for some hilly terrain, would include such towns as Xalapa, the Bays at Huatulco and countlesss other places around the country you must try to explore.

At Lake Chapala, many foreign expats walk along the Chapala-Jocotepec Carratera on their daily strolls beathing in auto exhaust fumes while, a short distance away there are deserted beaches with no fumes at all. If you haven´t found fresh air to breathe on your walks in Mexico, you should try again.

Click to expand...





It's a moot point but thanks for the info. It's moot as I convinced my wife yesterday to try living in San Cristobal part of the year, working a seasonal job for 3 months every year in Kansas so that she could spend quality time with family and friends. Then today she tells me that nothing less than having her own place in Olathe, KS near children and friends, getting jobs(if we're lucky), etc will make her happy. I'm pretty certain at this point I'll never live in Mexico again and will be lucky to visit. And this after moving in to my Mother's in NC and only paying $275 a month rent plus our own groceries. I waited until I was 51 to get married, beginning to remember why.:drama:

Click to expand...

I am sorry to hear of your tribulations VT but have enjoyed reading your posts regarding you Odyssey about the U.S. including (shudder) Kansas. I had no problem convincing my darlin´wife to retire to Mexico rather than the jingoistic southern U.S. or cold plus jingoistic France so I guess I´m lucky. 

We had a friend living retired here in Ajijic after many years working all over Latin America who decided Mexico had changed for the worse through modernization so decided to move back to his native Kansas and live with his sister who owned a home there, I think, in Topeka. He sold his home in Ajijic and was off to Topeka a few years ago and then one day I saw him on the street in Ajijic and, in surprise, asked him what he was doing back at Lake Chapala. Without going into any details, let´s just say that Kansas no longer lived up to his memories nor expectations. I think he lasted there less than a month. To each his own.

I guess I could have tried to convince my wife to retire to Alabama in southern comfort instead of Mexico and we could have spent the last 13 years sitting on that big lawn under the huge magnolia tree sipping bourbon and branch and going, " Whewee, Ah do declare, it sho is hot today ain´t it Aunt Maudie"", to which Aunt Maudie would reply as she has during every August heat wave since 1934, "Yeah, Dawg, it sho is hot but nothin´ like the summer of 1941, before our home had air conditioning when it was so hot and so humid the covers of the books in mah library curled back, all of our clothes mildewed and any rattlesnakes with means moved to Wisconsin." To which Dawg would have replied, "Just how hot was in Aunt Maudie?" and Aunt Maudie would have replied, "Well, we don ´t rightly know, HD since the weather station was down at the First Baptist Church because Reverend Billy Bob had nothing to do for five days a week except visit the hospital and contemplate the weather (in accordance with The Lord´s dicta) but his RC Cola weather thermometer got so hot it burst and the RC Cola company refused to buy him a new one as they found Pepsi in the church refrigerator." 

"Well" says Hound Dog, , "Ah do declare. Those RC Cola folks must be Yankees. Say, Melba Jean, could you brang me some mo´ bourbon before Ah take Mah afternoon nap?"_


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

My spouse and I made a deal: I'd give it a year in Mexico and I got to pick the "where". At the end of the year, I'd be the one to decide to stay or go, since I didn't want to move to Mexico in the first place. It's been ten years, and this is "home" now. I didn't have the strong family ties holding me back, which sounds like the big factor in VanTexan's situation. Our solution to the family issue was to persuade, bribe and welcome our adult children to visit us in Mexico. Because of the cost, however, the visits are not frequent.

However, considering the polar nature of our sad non-expat's disagreement, I'd bet on Mexico winning his heart and the (then ex)-wife staying put.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


lagoloo said:



My spouse and I made a deal: I'd give it a year in Mexico and I got to pick the "where". At the end of the year, I'd be the one to decide to stay or go, since I didn't want to move to Mexico in the first place. It's been ten years, and this is "home" now. I didn't have the strong family ties holding me back, which sounds like the big factor in VanTexan's situation. Our solution to the family issue was to persuade, bribe and welcome our adult children to visit us in Mexico. Because of the cost, however, the visits are not frequent.

However, considering the polar nature of our sad non-expat's disagreement, I'd bet on Mexico winning his heart and the (then ex)-wife staying put.

Click to expand...

_It´s interesting, lagoloo. that the extended French branch of our family come here to visit,often repeatedly, especially to Chiapas which they believe, in general, to be a magical place, but not even one member of our Alabama clan has ventured down here in 13 years and it´s not because they are unsophisticated about world travel but, while this is never openly voiced, I think they are a bit apprehensive about visiting Mexico.

I´m reminded of a long time friend who lived on Bon Secour Bay on the Alabama Coast and, years ago, used to visit us occasionally in San Francisco so he was no inexperienced shrinking violet. He decided to retire from Mobile Bay to New Orleans to engage in the decadent lifestyle there as he perceived it and one day we were sitting around casually discussing our retirement options when I told him we were retiring to Mexico - where there we had yet to decide. He responded in astonishment, saying, "Are you nuts? You don´t speak Spanish and they´ll cut your head off." I responded that these seemed to be self-cancelling problems as without a head my language skills would diminish in importance considerably. He was pleased to let me know that the Garden District of New Orleans was his choice for a retirement haven and I reminded him that New Orleans was one very dangerous and crime-ridden town. He scoffed at that saying that he and his neighbors in the well-to-do Garden District employed full-time armed guards to patrol the neighborhood 24 hours a day. That´s a pleasant thought, no?

Well, my old friend shortly found out that if every day is Mardi Gras in New Orleans then there is no Mardi Gras but just another crappy day so he was back in Bon Secour in short order and I´m still in Mexico - at the moment - head intact and becoming conversant in Spanish. 

I wish VT good luck and hope he and his new bride find a place mutually satisfying to them both.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Doesn't everybody tell you that you'll be headless or shot if you move to Mexico?

My offspring said so, so when he finally visited, scared spitless, and the locals started a fireworks event, I rushed to his bedroom and shouted "get your pants on.....the revolution just started".
He actually believed it for a few minutes.

Meanwhile, there are places where you don't go and places you do. Just common sense.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> Meanwhile, there are places where you don't go and places you do. Just common sense.


And just like everywhere else in the world.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

lagoloo said:


> Doesn't everybody tell you that you'll be headless or shot if you move to Mexico?
> 
> My offspring said so, so when he finally visited, scared spitless, and the locals started a fireworks event, I rushed to his bedroom and shouted "get your pants on.....the revolution just started".
> He actually believed it for a few minutes.
> ...


Good story, lagoloo:

Sometime in the 1980s we decided to fly down to Guadalajara from San Francisco on vacation and my wife asked her administrative assistant to buy us two tickets but her administrative assistant, whose English was challenged, screwed up and ordered non-refundable tickets to Guatemala (as in Guatemala City) so, what the hell, Guatemala sounded interesting for a number of reasons so we took that midnight flyer non-stop from Los Angeles to Guatemala City and there I was on that non-stop to Guatemala City and then on to San Salvador and that plane was absolutely full to the brim with Guatemalans and Salvadoreans and I was seated next to this Guatemalteca upper-middle class woman who asked me where I was going and I told her Guatemala City. She looked at me as if I were nuts as this was a time of a quite serious and long-standing civil war in Guatemala and said something to the effect that I was insane; "A big foreigner like you getting off the airplane in Guatemala City? Are you out of your mind? They´ll spot you before get out of the airport and even if you don´t disappear in a hole in the ground outside of the, city your money will for sure. "

Well, that was encouraging as, at the time she said that to me we were somewhere over Mexico with the next stop Guatemala City so it was a little late to be changing plans. We obviously proceeded on to Guatemala City where we did manage to get a taxi from the airport to a hotel and then a taxi on the Antigua the next day. 

Now, in those days in the midst of a violent civil war, we had no notion of the tradition of shooting off massive amounts of firecrackers akin to flying cherry bombs on certain celebratory occasions and while staying in a very nice hotel with acres of pleasant, mature gardens in Antigua, we were awakened in the middle of the night during our first night there by what sounded to us like our imagined Omaha Beach in 1946 during the D-Day Invasion with grenades bursting everywhere and what we fancied as machine guns rattling and I looked over at my wife and remarked, "Of all the bad luck, this civil war has been going on for an eternity and just as we arrive here the insurgents succeed in taking over Antigua and, no doubt, will make this hotel with its expansive grounds, their headquarters - we are doomed." I tried to call the reception desk but there was no answer at that time of the night which confirmed my suspicions that we were shortly to become cannon fodder but, as it turned out, nothing was askance in the morning and everything was in the same order as the day before.

Now, in Ajijic and San Cristóbal we live off and on with these noisy traditions, especially in San Cristóbal where we live near the barrio church but the only ramifications are that we suddenly have a bed full of dogs scared sh*tless but, as they fervently cling to us for protection, at least they keep us warm.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> You have my sympathy, but not too much of it. In her short time in Mexico, did she learn enough Spanish to understand what adios means? You could test that and stay in Mexico, ¿verdad? Mistakes are not so painful if they are corrected quickly and firmly.


Yesterday I crossed the Rubicon, so to speak. I told her Kansas wasn't what I agreed upon. That she could accompany me to San Cristobal, or she could go live with her daughter. I'll still come up every year to work a short term job at Amazon's distribution center in KS and see her. When my pension starts in 3 years I'll move up there permanently if she still wants me too. That I don't believe in divorce, it'll be up to her to do that if she wants, which she says she doesn't. After much insistence on her part that I come to KS now she seems accepting of this plan. And it did come out that she doesn't want to live in Mexico, ever, that she feels the U.S. is superior in every way except cost, and that she'd rather work two jobs to scrape by than ever move down south again. I had tried numerous angles as to why we'd be better off down there, but this is ultimately the plan we settled on. And I apologize for hijacking this thread, sounds like another episode of "Days of Our Lives", LOL. Thanks for the advice everyone, it was listened to.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

When you said that when your pension starts you'd "move up there permanently"etc., did you mean up to San Cristobal or to Kansas?
Little bit of teasing: What are you gonna do when a sweet Mexicana starts wooing you?

Whatever you do, I wish you well.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> When you said that when your pension starts you'd "move up there permanently"etc., did you mean up to San Cristobal or to Kansas?
> Little bit of teasing: What are you gonna do when a sweet Mexicana starts wooing you?
> 
> Whatever you do, I wish you well.


We quit decent jobs, cashing out meager 401k's that would have been plenty to live on in Mexico until my pension started in 3 years. I was willing to try to make her happy by living where she wanted to keep her from falling apart, which seemed like a real possibility when we were in San Miguel. But I wanted us to stay in Mexico until my pension started rather than go through all of our money quickly up north if we couldn't find work that pay'd anything. She'd rather move in with her daughter, who is only 21 and doesn't make much herself, than to more reasonably get by in Mexico, coming up every year to work the temp job and see friends and family. I'm refusing to go along, and get to experience Mexico in the meantime. And who knows, after 3 years of struggling working not so great jobs she may be more amendable to giving Mexico another chance. But I did agree I'll move up there to KS in 3 years when my pension starts as we'd have that to supplement whatever else we did.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

:focus:
There is absolutely nothing unsafe about a car that doesn't have airbags or ABS - we never used to have them - we just drove more carefully 

I have been watching clips of vehicle accidents in places as far apart as the USA and Russia. It all comes down to the attitude of the person behind the wheel. If the drivers thinks they are safer because there are all the safety features, it seems to me that they drive with less caution hoping that if they hit something, the airbags will protect them. These have been in vehicles with cameras on board that filmed the sheer stupidity of many drivers.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> When you said that when your pension starts you'd "move up there permanently"etc., did you mean up to San Cristobal or to Kansas?
> Little bit of teasing: What are you gonna do when a sweet Mexicana starts wooing you?
> 
> Whatever you do, I wish you well.


I do too. And watch out for the sweet _mexicanas_ while you're here on your own away from your wife.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> :focus:
> There is absolutely nothing unsafe about a car that doesn't have airbags or ABS - we never used to have them - we just drove more carefully


I think it's generally accepted, and supported by the facts ... that persons who are riding in a vehicle with airbags are better protected and lives are saved as compared to persons involved in an accident not equipped with air bags. Certainly, there are idiot drvers out there. But the victims of the idiocy might be better protected riding in a vehicle with airbags.


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## JoanneR2 (Apr 18, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> :focus: There is absolutely nothing unsafe about a car that doesn't have airbags or ABS - we never used to have them - we just drove more carefully I have been watching clips of vehicle accidents in places as far apart as the USA and Russia. It all comes down to the attitude of the person behind the wheel. If the drivers thinks they are safer because there are all the safety features, it seems to me that they drive with less caution hoping that if they hit something, the airbags will protect them. These have been in vehicles with cameras on board that filmed the sheer stupidity of many drivers.


You may drive more slowly but it won't protect you from a head on collision from some idiot doing 60.,,,


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Safety while driving is a great subject!
How many airbags are enough?
Some cars, like Volvo, are safer because they have more of everything...airbags, structurally reinforced, etc
Proximity sensors,
Some others even carry a device that monitors if you are sleepy!
How many safety devices do we need in order to protect ourselves from collations, stupid careless or drunk drivers, people who cannot see or hear well anymore (but they think they can), car malfunctions or nature (rain, gravel, snow)?
What about bicycles or motorcycles?

I think we will be much better when humans do not operate vehicles, and these are driven by a main computer based on many many sensors, of course we will have accidents then due to machine malfunctions, but I really believe those will be much less than the ones we make. Once again, we drink while driving, drive under medications or drugs, drive while we are sad, angry, we make phone calls, turn back to say something to the kids, adjust the radio's volume, smoke, eat, fall asleep, etc.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

JoanneR2 said:


> You may drive more slowly but it won't protect you from a head on collision from some idiot doing 60.,,,


I'll disagree here. Perhaps at 30mph, but at 60 you'll need a very, very large airbag. That speed will crush the entire front and put the engine in your lap.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> I'll disagree here. Perhaps at 30mph, but at 60 you'll need a very, very large airbag. That speed will crush the entire front and put the engine in your lap.


¡Dios mío!, what a horrible way to die!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> ¡Dios mío!, what a horrible way to die!


I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if you fell asleep at the wheel which is another major cause of accidents. 

No matter how well you are protected it won't stop accidents caused by people who think they are fit to drive when they aren't and that can include under the influence (drink, drugs {prescribed and otherwise}), illness (sudden and longer term), tiredness, etc. etc.

But there are those who become overconfident when they think they are well protected and take less care, e.g. when vehicles were open-sided, one was more conscious of [excessive] speed but in today's hermetically sealed cocoons, the sensation of speed is somewhat reduced and leads people into doing things they, otherwise, wouldn't


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if you fell asleep at the wheel which is another major cause of accidents.
> 
> No matter how well you are protected it won't stop accidents caused by people who think they are fit to drive when they aren't and that can include under the influence (drink, drugs {prescribed and otherwise}), illness (sudden and longer term), tiredness, etc. etc.
> 
> But there are those who become overconfident when they think they are well protected and take less care, e.g. when vehicles were open-sided, one was more conscious of [excessive] speed but in today's hermetically sealed cocoons, the sensation of speed is somewhat reduced and leads people into doing things they, otherwise, wouldn't


I agree that people feel confident and protected when driving, also that people are idiots when driving tired, under the influence of substances, ill, etc.
The point I'd like to comment is about cars themselves, vehicles in general, they are much better now than ever before; I don't think I need noise around to make me awared of the speed I'm driving.
Today we have better technology; brakes, tires, engines, vehicle structure itself is engineered to protect the passengers when crashing, today, when driving, we don't see the hood of the car, all we see is the road, thanks to improved engineering, headlights are much better now than yesterday, I could spend the rest of the day listing all the things that make today's cars better than ever.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

The airbag experience is not pleasant at all. I was in an accident in which my airbag deployed, the seat belt tightened automatically and I had painful ribs and bruises for weeks as a result. Better than the alternative, of course. 
Also, if you buy a small car, be sure it's the kind with a good "cage" for greater structural strength.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

lagoloo said:


> Better than the alternative, of course.


:rockon:


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## RPBHaas (Dec 21, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> Doesn't everybody tell you that you'll be headless or shot if you move to Mexico?
> 
> My offspring said so, so when he finally visited, scared spitless, and the locals started a fireworks event, I rushed to his bedroom and shouted "get your pants on.....the revolution just started".
> He actually believed it for a few minutes.
> ...


Made me laugh out loud!


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