# Looking for 90 day (maybe longer) rental in North Portugal in Viana Do Castelo region



## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

Hi, I am looking for a rental in Northern Portugal in the Viana Do Castelo region. I believe I can arrive there in early to mid May, and I can rent for at least 90 days (or possibly longer after I receive my residency permit). I would prefer to rent something near the border with Spain, possibly near Vila Nova de Cerveira, Valenca, etc. The rental would be for a single man with an older and very well behaved small dog, and I would prefer a furnished or semi-furnished rental with the utilities and internet included. I would also prefer something with a private entrance, bathroom, and cooking area. It could be a studio apartment, a cottage on a farm, a small house, etc. I have several credit cards and I will have no issues paying my rent during this time of crisis. I am hoping to move to Portugal permanently, establish residency, and eventually buy a home there. If you know of something that might be suitable for me please get back to me. 

Also I will be looking for an English speaking realtor in the area as well as I will be looking for a permanent home (mini farm) while I am there in case anyone knows of someone or someplace. I know this is not the best time but I already sold my house last year so there is no going back. 

Thank you, and be safe everyone!


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## jumblemon (Mar 29, 2020)

I suspect you may need a good immigration lawyer before you look for a landlord or realtor. I don’t think you have fully interpreted the coming hurdles to move residency from UK to EU.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

jumblemon said:


> I suspect you may need a good immigration lawyer before you look for a landlord or realtor. I don’t think you have fully interpreted the coming hurdles to move residency from UK to EU.


Huh? I am not from the UK, I have Italian citizenship.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

Hi,
This is not really answering your query but we found (in central Portugal) it was not easy to find rental accommodation for other than a holiday or permanent living. A lot of estate agencies (Realtors) who deal with permanent rentals will do so locally and do not list their properties online as the people looking tend to be locals. Holiday rentals are a different matter and often not listed in the low season as their money is made in the holiday season. Having a dog seems to be an issue if looking online but less of an issue if looking in person. You may find it is easier to book somewhere for a month via Air*n* then trawl the agencies by finding their offices and going in personally. You'll also get help from people if you meet then face to face rather then email or phone, like any Host, their family and friends. IThis is not a recommendation but accepts pets, gives a month discount --- https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/4134...1587981116_UWHha/yLP8wIvHPB&guests=1&adults=1


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

Strontium said:


> Hi,
> This is not really answering your query but we found (in central Portugal) it was not easy to find rental accommodation for other than a holiday or permanent living. A lot of estate agencies (Realtors) who deal with permanent rentals will do so locally and do not list their properties online as the people looking tend to be locals. Holiday rentals are a different matter and often not listed in the low season as their money is made in the holiday season. Having a dog seems to be an issue if looking online but less of an issue if looking in person. You may find it is easier to book somewhere for a month via Air*n* then trawl the agencies by finding their offices and going in personally. You'll also get help from people if you meet then face to face rather then email or phone, like any Host, their family and friends. IThis is not a recommendation but accepts pets, gives a month discount --- https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/4134...1587981116_UWHha/yLP8wIvHPB&guests=1&adults=1


Hi, thank you. I can try realtors but I believe I cannot rent for more than 90 days without first getting residency permission. I am not sure if I can get inside Portugal without a rental in the first place. I have a holiday rental just over the border in Spain that will rent to me for 60-90 days but right now all rentals are banned in Spain. That landlord told me rentals have completely dried up and she does not expect it to pick up until August at the earliest. With the virus going around and with non-EU nationals banned from entering the EU until possible September one would think many of the holiday rentals would prefer having a steady stream of rent for 2 or 3 months starting in mid May while the EU decides to open up for tourists again. It is not likely rentals are going to be booked more than a week or two per month with movement restrictions, etc, and especially in May and June. Maybe Portugal will be different though as it has not been so deadly there. I am trying not to rent for too long though as I am hoping to buy a home within 90 days of arrival.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

If you want to buy in the Viana area I recommend the lawyer Marisa Lemos Fernandes. She went the extra mile to help me with my apartment purchase and speaks good English.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

vianina said:


> If you want to buy in the Viana area I recommend the lawyer Marisa Lemos Fernandes. She went the extra mile to help me with my apartment purchase and speaks good English.


Thank you. If I can find a rental and find a way to get there I will look her up


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Why should this be complicated? Also intending to do this later this year.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

suiko said:


> Why should this be complicated? Also intending to do this later this year.


It's complicated - the little dog chewed his fake Rolex so he bought a replacement fake copy of Casio F-108WH-2AEF via E**y UK which is stuck on UK time thereby he keeps missing his travel connections because of the one hour time difference. He desperately needs to get to Portugal as they are so pro British they have adopted the same time as the UK unlike the rest of mainland Europe then he'll be ok for his ongoing travel connections, office opening time, shopping, traffic lights, oranges etc.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks. It's a nice Zen koan, but as with most Zen koans you probably need to be at a certain level of understanding to get it 

What I meant, in answer to Jumblemon's post above, is "why should it be so difficult to move from the UK to the EU that you need an immigration lawyer"?


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

suiko said:


> Why should this be complicated? Also intending to do this later this year.


What he says above, it has nothing to do with the plague, the states of emergency throughout Europe, the travel bans, the rental bans in Spain, the closed ferries, the banning of flights originating from Italy in most EU countries, the rules restricting dogs on aircraft, or the fact I am carrying a large e-bike and a 10kg dog, etc.


Also I am not looking for a B & B or a room rental. I do a lot of reading and I require a private residence with peace and quiet. I do not share bathrooms, kitchens, etc with other people. I am very neat and orderly, and my dog is the same. He is over 10 years old and all he is very gentle with furniture, people, animals, etc and he mostly just sleeps when inside. 

I can get a recommendation from my current landlord in Italy if needed, I have been living here for several months in a fully furnished home and I didn't even have to pay a security or damage deposit after he met me in person. Actually with the current situation he has been unable to come collect the rent for April, he told me to just pay the balance on the day that I leave. I don't even have a lease right now, it expired last month. We trust each other and yet we never met before this rental, how often does that happen...


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

suiko said:


> Thanks. It's a nice Zen koan, but as with most Zen koans you probably need to be at a certain level of understanding to get it
> 
> What I meant, in answer to Jumblemon's post above, is "why should it be so difficult to move from the UK to the EU that you need an immigration lawyer"?


I think there are other threads here that discuss that subject. I seem to recall reading that everything changed after Brexit day. I thought I read somewhere that there may be a time frame which will still allow you to move, possibly the end of the year or something. It is doubtful anyone will see your question here, you might want to post it in a new topic. Good luck with your move.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Strictly speaking, you don't need an immigration lawyer. But, if purchasing real estate, you are well advised to use a lawyer. That was the purpose of my recommendation, although the lawyer I recommended deals with immigration issues too. One of the really useful things she did was set up a NIF for me via Power of Attorney before I travelled to Portugal. You can't do much in Portugal without a NIF, but anyone who already has a NIF and is present in Portugal can get one for you if you sign a PoA to that effect.
Bear in mind that the Viana do Castelo Camara Municipal are real sticklers when it comes to registering residency. You need something that demonstrates that you entered Portugal 90 days earlier (which is not the case everywhere in Portugal), although they don't seem to care whether or not you can prove an address in Portugal for all that time, as long as you can prove that you have one now. A transaction in Portugal, such as the issuance of a NIF , appears to serve as evidence of presence for their purposes.
For those asking about transferring residence from the UK to Portugal, it takes place under EU simplified procedure until 31st December. Beyond that date it may be more complicated.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

vianina said:


> Strictly speaking, you don't need an immigration lawyer. But, if purchasing real estate, you are well advised to use a lawyer. That was the purpose of my recommendation, although the lawyer I recommended deals with immigration issues too. One of the really useful things she did was set up a NIF for me via Power of Attorney before I travelled to Portugal. You can't do much in Portugal without a NIF, but anyone who already has a NIF and is present in Portugal can get one for you if you sign a PoA to that effect.
> Bear in mind that the Viana do Castelo Camara Municipal are real sticklers when it comes to registering residency. You need something that demonstrates that you entered Portugal 90 days earlier (which is not the case everywhere in Portugal), although they don't seem to care whether or not you can prove an address in Portugal for all that time, as long as you can prove that you have one now. A transaction in Portugal, such as the issuance of a NIF , appears to serve as evidence of presence for their purposes.
> For those asking about transferring residence from the UK to Portugal, it takes place under EU simplified procedure until 31st December. Beyond that date it may be more complicated.


The real estate lawyer is also extremely helpful for those who do not understand Portuguese as well as Portuguese real estate law. It is very simple to buy real estate in the US, especially in escrow states. But the US appears to have more consistent laws, and they are written in English 

The reason is why I am looking for a 90 day (or less rental) with all utilities including internet is because this can be done without the need of getting an NIF in advance. I can then get that after I arrive in Portugal.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

You can indeed get it in Portugal. But it will be registered to your foreign address until such time as you manage to establish residency - and for that you need 90 days' presence in Viana, and probably elsewhere in the north. Establishing the NIF in advance is a workaround for that issue.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

vianina said:


> You can indeed get it in Portugal. But it will be registered to your foreign address until such time as you manage to establish residency - and for that you need 90 days' presence in Viana, and probably elsewhere in the north. Establishing the NIF in advance is a workaround for that issue.


I am not too worried about 90 days from now. By that time I should be at least in contract to purchase a home and I will have my NIF before then too. I can always hop across the border and rent something in Spain and then return to my purchased property after I get permission to live there. Once I own a home it should be an easier process since that is going to be my primary (and only) residence. 

One would think you can apply for residency with less than 90 days there since you are not allowed to stay for more than 90 days without a residency permit. From what I read any EU citizen is allowed to remain there for up to 90 days, after which a residency permit is required. It makes no sense that someone staying short term and then deciding that they whey wish to remain must leave and return later. It is also possible that with this emergency going on that they will temporarily change the residency permit requirements.

My biggest problem is finding the right rental and getting there with my dog and bike. Buying a house and getting residency is the easy stuff. Everything is backwards!

Ps - am not looking to buy in a town or city. Preferably I will buying something in the country with a lot of privacy and less neighbors.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Don't underestimate the bureaucratic hurdles, or the ability of Portuguese bureaucrats to be illogical and rigid. Once you buy a house which you declare as your main residence you have just 60 days to register with the tax service at that address and risk a fine if you don't comply. However, the tax service will not register you at your new address unless you bring the residency certificate. So, if, like me, you enter Portugal the day before you sign the property purchase, then you end up with a massive headache as the tax service and Camara Municipal pass the buck to one another. What I'm saying is that you want to declare residency a month or more before you buy, if you possibly can. The paperwork will not be simple, any of it. Also, if your marital status is anything other than single, the tax service will demand a NIF for your spouse too, even if they are in no way involved in the purchase and your marital regime is separation of assets. That happened to me. I'm not trying to discourage you. Portugal is great. But don't go in there supposing that the paperwork will be easy.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

vianina said:


> Don't underestimate the bureaucratic hurdles, or the ability of Portuguese bureaucrats to be illogical and rigid. Once you buy a house which you declare as your main residence you have just 60 days to register with the tax service at that address and risk a fine if you don't comply. However, the tax service will not register you at your new address unless you bring the residency certificate. So, if, like me, you enter Portugal the day before you sign the property purchase, then you end up with a massive headache as the tax service and Camara Municipal pass the buck to one another. What I'm saying is that you want to declare residency a month or more before you buy, if you possibly can. The paperwork will not be simple, any of it. Also, if your marital status is anything other than single, the tax service will demand a NIF for your spouse too, even if they are in no way involved in the purchase and your marital regime is separation of assets. That happened to me. I'm not trying to discourage you. Portugal is great. But don't go in there supposing that the paperwork will be easy.


Yes I hear it is not just Portugal with the insane bureaucracy but Italy and some other EU countries too.  Thankfully I am single and not divorced. Perhaps they will accept a rental agreement as proof I was in the country but by any means I will try to apply for an NIF before I purchase a home. I know it is not going to be easy but it is really difficult trying to get there with my dog and ebike (and without risking my dog's life by putting him in with cargo on a plane). It is a 3 day journey to get there from here while spending 3 nights in train and ferry stations rather than flying but for his safety I was willing to do that - until they closed the ferry


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

John and Cecil said:


> Yes I hear it is not just Portugal with the insane bureaucracy but Italy and some other EU countries too.  Thankfully I am single and not divorced. Perhaps they will accept a rental agreement as proof I was in the country but by any means I will try to apply for an NIF before I purchase a home. I know it is not going to be easy but it is really difficult trying to get there with my dog and ebike (and without risking my dog's life by putting him in with cargo on a plane). It is a 3 day journey to get there from here while spending 3 nights in train and ferry stations rather than flying but for his safety I was willing to do that - until they closed the ferry


A rental agreement is a perfectly good form of proof that you were in the country. I can see why the journey seems more daunting than anything else. Is there a reason why it needs to happen right now? In another month all of the lockdown regimes will have eased a bit.


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## jumblemon (Mar 29, 2020)

vianina said:


> Don't underestimate the bureaucratic hurdles, or the ability of Portuguese bureaucrats to be illogical and rigid. Once you buy a house which you declare as your main residence you have just 60 days to register with the tax service at that address and risk a fine if you don't comply. However, the tax service will not register you at your new address unless you bring the residency certificate. So, if, like me, you enter Portugal the day before you sign the property purchase, then you end up with a massive headache as the tax service and Camara Municipal pass the buck to one another. What I'm saying is that you want to declare residency a month or more before you buy, if you possibly can. The paperwork will not be simple, any of it. Also, if your marital status is anything other than single, the tax service will demand a NIF for your spouse too, even if they are in no way involved in the purchase and your marital regime is separation of assets. That happened to me. I'm not trying to discourage you. Portugal is great. But don't go in there supposing that the paperwork will be easy.




As I suggested at the beginning, he may want to consult an immigration lawyer...just saying...


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

jumblemon said:


> As I suggested at the beginning, he may want to consult an immigration lawyer...just saying...


I am a citizen of the EU, hiring an immigration lawyer to move from 1 EU country to the next is like someone in the US hiring an immigration lawyer to move from New York to California. 

The topic of this thread is the following: Looking for a rental, a realtor, a real estate lawyer, and possibly a small farm for sale. Everything else is irrelevant.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

You could try the Entreportas real estate agency in Viana do Castelo.

You could see whether Mr Aires Sa Oliveira is still working there: [email protected]
He speaks English.

You could find more options by searching "alugar apartamento Viana". Clicking on custojusto will display apartments from private landlords.

You will be lucky to find one who does not ask why you want to come to Portugal at this precise time. It is not irrelevant since taking on a tenant involves a risk assessment.

The other poster's suggestion of an immigration lawyer was not totally irrelevant either since the EU provisions on freedom of movement are currently suspended under the treaty's own inbuilt article on public health emergencies, and I doubt anybody on this board can give a precise answer as to whether a non-resident will be allowed in for the purpose of becoming a resident, although my assessment is that he won't.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

vianina said:


> You could try the Entreportas real estate agency in Viana do Castelo.
> 
> You could see whether Mr Aires Sa Oliveira is still working there: [email protected]
> He speaks English.
> ...


Thank you for the information, it is helpful. 

I have no problem telling a potential landlord why I am coming to Portugal in a private communication. I am not going to explain the reasons I am trying to move there now, I have dozens of reasons but honestly it makes zero sense whatsoever to list my reasons here and now in a public forum. Perhaps some of my info is private or personal? Maybe I have cancer and I am dying soon (I am not, but the next person asked this question may be)? It should be enough to say that I have zero issues paying my rent, I treat a home gently and as if it were my own, I am honest, and I have no criminal background whatsoever. 

I don't like to describe myself online in forums but I have a 140 IQ with the equivalence of several degrees, including land rights and common law. This is not my first rodeo. The poster that made that immigration lawyer recommendation did so a second time after I already rejected it, that was the issue. I am trying to keep this thread on point. 

Btw, they are letting people in Portugal now and they are letting them buy homes. Do you honestly think they won't allow retired EU citizens that purchased a home there to occupy their only primary property, especially with a future environment with staggering unemployment? Does the government there want the country to go bankrupt? They have a NHR program in place for many years to attract people with money to move there, now you are claiming they may completely reverse their position of allowing retired EU citizens to live there when unemployment is rising exponentially? This makes zero sense.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Where did I say they would reverse that position?

I don't brag about my IQ or degrees on internet fora but I'm not that stupid either.

Good luck with the move when it happens.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

vianina said:


> Where did I say they would reverse that position?
> 
> I don't brag about my IQ or degrees on internet fora but I'm not that stupid either.
> 
> Good luck with the move when it happens.


OMG! I get badgered with things that are off point even after requesting it to stop multiple times. Then when I am forced to state that I am intelligent and I know what I am doing in a last ditch effort to get it to stop then I get labeled as "bragging".

You specifically said this: _I doubt anybody on this board can give a precise answer as to whether a non-resident will be allowed in for the purpose of becoming a resident, although my assessment is that he won't._

Also, I never meant to imply that you were stupid, only that I am intelligent and I have an education background in these matters. You are obviously an intelligent person. I thanked you multiple times for your help. That description was not meant for just you but for the thread in general.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

My statement about a non-resident not being allowed in was made, obviously, in the context of the current public health emergency and the application of article 29 of Directive 2004/38/EC. At no point did I suggest that was to be policy going forward. In fact, I said that in a month the situation might be easier.

Portugal will let you in by air. If you are not travelling to your registered or otherwise attested place of residence, France will not let you through currently, and nor will Spain, so the land route is no use at present, all in the context of the abovementioned article 29.

I'll leave it here.


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## jumblemon (Mar 29, 2020)

A high IQ (self-claimed) but a low EQ (clearly). 

Asks for help, provides half the needed information to assist. 

A guy with a dog who gets ****ty quickly. I’m done here. Take care. 

Blocked.


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

jumblemon said:


> A high IQ (self-claimed) but a low EQ (clearly).
> 
> Asks for help, provides half the needed information to assist.
> 
> ...


WOW. Specifically I asked for a "rental, a real estate lawyer and a realtor". I gave the area for which I was looking to move, the amount of time and starting date range, the fact that I have a small dog, and that I can pay my bills without issue. Nothing else is necessary IMHO. I politely told you earlier that I was not interested in hiring an immigration lawyer and that I am a EU citizen.

Btw, I have read almost all of Goleman's books as well as Howard Gardner's books, etc quite a few years ago. I am a huge fan of Jung, but not a fan of Freud. One of my equivalent degrees is in evolutionary behavioral psychology. I believe that you are referencing social intelligence rather than emotional intelligence, however either argument does not carry much weight in this case. It's akin to saying there is something wrong with telling a telemarketer to stop calling when they call your home repeatedly and without permission.

Ps, since you are making remarks claiming I might be a liar I attached a picture of one lot of psychology books I sold before moving overseas. If you want to debate that they are my books I can also attach dozens of pictures of the house showing the stone fireplace they are sitting on in the picture as well. Just WOW!


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## Three321 (May 4, 2020)

You poor man what a ****y lot these lot are and all u askd for was a bit of help


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## Three321 (May 4, 2020)

You poor man all you asd for was some advice what a ****ty lot these lot are


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## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

Everything is ok, I would just like to keep this thread on point. I do appreciate all the help that was relevant to the original question posted. I am looking for an apt or house rental mostly, but recommendations for English speaking realtors and real estate attorneys in the VDC region could also be somewhat helpful. I believe most people that posted here are trying to help, but we are already on 4 pages and finding a 60-90 day rental is the main point here. I am not hurt by anything that transpired, I think people are just stressed at the moment which is entirely understandable. But I am not looking for 10 pages of banter where the original question gets lost or confused. I am homeless, I sold my house and decided to travel around Europe before relocating and now I am stuck in a foreign country and I must leave very soon. It is not easy living in a world where you cannot go anywhere but to your primary home and yet you don't have a home.

So anyway I am still looking for an apt rental for up to 90 days for me and my small, well behaved dog, and I can provide a reference from my landlord in Italy if desired.


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