# Moving to Spain - is it even still possible?



## Helenamy (Jan 24, 2021)

Hi all landed here as I’ve been reading so much confusing and conflicting info since brexit rules changed. We had planned on buying last year and moving before brexit rules changed but obviously covid got in our way. It’s been my life long dream to follow my brother out to Spain and my other half wants to move there as his Dad is there too. We saved for the house purchase so we could buy a simple place and now I’m reading it may not be be possible! We had planned on relocating my little online business which would bring enough a month for us to live on, not like kings and queens but enough. We planned on using savings until it was setup again in Spain and having spoken with family about costs, we would have been ok doing this. So now I read we have to either have jobs there that each bring in around £2000 a month, or go self employed but probably not be able to go that route without complications? Is that right? Also I read that to have a job there either you need to apply and get it before you get to Spain or be on the ‘list’ of jobs that they need to fill, I can’t remember what it’s called sorry. My other half should be ok as he is a truck/mechanical technician but I would need to qualify for something else like teaching.
I am just really confused! Is there a way we can move over there now? Do we really need to be earning £2000 each to do it? I have an NIE from when I was going to buy before, does that help me at all?
Am currently devastated that what I’ve been saving and living for as long as I can remember may not be doable now! Any advice really appreciated.
Thank you


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Helenamy said:


> Hi all landed here as I’ve been reading so much confusing and conflicting info since brexit rules changed. We had planned on buying last year and moving before brexit rules changed but obviously covid got in our way. It’s been my life long dream to follow my brother out to Spain and my other half wants to move there as his Dad is there too. We saved for the house purchase so we could buy a simple place and now I’m reading it may not be be possible! We had planned on relocating my little online business which would bring enough a month for us to live on, not like kings and queens but enough. We planned on using savings until it was setup again in Spain and having spoken with family about costs, we would have been ok doing this. So now I read we have to either have jobs there that each bring in around £2000 a month, or go self employed but probably not be able to go that route without complications? Is that right? Also I read that to have a job there either you need to apply and get it before you get to Spain or be on the ‘list’ of jobs that they need to fill, I can’t remember what it’s called sorry. My other half should be ok as he is a truck/mechanical technician but I would need to qualify for something else like teaching.
> I am just really confused! Is there a way we can move over there now? Do we really need to be earning £2000 each to do it? I have an NIE from when I was going to buy before, does that help me at all?
> Am currently devastated that what I’ve been saving and living for as long as I can remember may not be doable now! Any advice really appreciated.
> Thank you


welcome 

It's possible, but WAY more complicated.

Your big problem will be needing to work. As far as I'm aware there is no list of skill shortages - unemployment is high here.

The NIE won't make a difference I'm afraid.

Take a look at the visa options. Visas (FAQ)
For a non-lucrative - that means no working - visa, a couple needs to show funds/annual income of around 34.000€. That's for a one year visa. At renewal at the end of that year you have to show double, since renewal is for two years.

The self-employment one is more complicated, but does mean that you can work http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Documents/TRP ES-EN.pdf

The other alternative is to find a company to employ you & get a work visa for you. Bear in mind though that the visa is for that job/company only.

*All visas have to be applied for & granted before you come to Spain.*


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## Helenamy (Jan 24, 2021)

Thank you for the reply and advice. The self employment option looks the most likely. I have an Etsy business which takes around £40k a year which I planned to move and restart there. I assume I can evidence it all from my past sales and experience? Would that be enough for both of us though or would my other half need to find work? It’s so confusing, just as I think I find a way there’s more questions! Wish we had made it last year, it was so much easier then.


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## Helenamy (Jan 24, 2021)

Also is all the evidence just needed for 5 years before applying for permanent residency?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Helenamy said:


> Thank you for the reply and advice. The self employment option looks the most likely. I have an Etsy business which takes around £40k a year which I planned to move and restart there. I assume I can evidence it all from my past sales and experience? Would that be enough for both of us though or would my other half need to find work? It’s so confusing, just as I think I find a way there’s more questions! Wish we had made it last year, it was so much easier then.


I don't know anyone who has applied for the self-employment visa, so I can't say. Your best bet would be to email the consulate yourself. It's the consulate that would issue the visa, so they will tell you what they need.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I agree we dont know exactly how complicated the Visa process is as , I imagine no one can really do it at moment seeing as you can't enter Spain unless already a resident. There is little point in retraining for a teaching post as you would first have no experience and secondly Spain can recruit English teachers from Ireland so you wouldn't be high on the list for a Visa. Again I can't see how your husband would be considered high on list without Spanish and EU qualifications. Self-employment is the most realistic but I imagine that it has higher requirements than existing self employment terms for EU nationals. Anyway start with the consulates and let us know what they suggest as then it can be circulated here as an example for others. Good luck


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Having looked up what an 'Esty Business' is I very much doubt it would qualify under the self employed that visa's terms.

For clarity the €34,000 mentioned (double for the 2nd and 3rd two year visas) is broken down into €27,000 for the first applicant and €7000 for the second and can be cash in the bank or secure or guaranteed income which in reality means pensions as little else can be said to be that. Projected income from a business, even if based on past accounts, is not.

Regarding your husbands skills, unless he is some sort of highly qualified specialist actually in demand in Spain then the chance of him getting an offer of employment are effectively zero if for no other reason that any prospective employer will have to demonstrate that the position being offered cannot be filled by a Spanish national. To be blunt if "truck/mechanical technician" is a just pretty way of saying 'truck mechanic' then I'm afraid there are no shortages of those in the country.

Perhaps needless to say job prospects become sub zero if you don't speak reasonably fluent Spanish, CV's submitted in English will almost certainly go straight in the bin.

Unfortunately today moving to Spain has become the preserve of highly qualified Spanish speakers (and then only if their qualifications are recognised and transferrable) and wealthier retirees.

I hope none of your family voted leave!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Just to play devil's advocate; where I live there are lots of young Russian families. About 30 % of my son's class is Russian. Now all these people seem to have jobs here and they certainly are not wealthy. Now if young Russians can manage to get residency and jobs , either the system has some dubious methods available, or it isnt as restrictive as we imagine.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Just to play devil's advocate; where I live there are lots of young Russian families. About 30 % of my son's class is Russian. Now all these people seem to have jobs here and they certainly are not wealthy. Now if young Russians can manage to get residency and jobs , either the system has some dubious methods available, or it isnt as restrictive as we imagine.


I'd guess most would be in expat-type jobs where speaking Russian is a pre-requisite. As I presume there are few fluent Russian speakers among the resident jobseekers, visa may not be so difficult to obtain. Also they may be working for mainly Russian employers so they can tweak job specification to suit the applicants they wish to hire, such as recent work experience in Russia.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Just to play devil's advocate; where I live there are lots of young Russian families. About 30 % of my son's class is Russian. Now all these people seem to have jobs here and they certainly are not wealthy. Now if young Russians can manage to get residency and jobs , either the system has some dubious methods available, or it isnt as restrictive as we imagine.


I'm glad that someone else is thinking along these lines. The title of this tread is a bit OTT I think "is it even possible?"

Of course it is, people have been moving to Spain from outside the EU for years, applying for visas and work permits, the same way that British people have been moving to the USA, Australia or wherever with similar, or even tougher immigration requirements.

We are just in a period of relative shock as people realise that we really have left the EU and that the sunny mediterranean countries aren't actually going to turn a blind eye to the rules because they "need our money". But conversely, they aren't making up more difficult or obstructive rules just for British immigrants, in a few months we will start to see the success stories and people posting about how they got their visas, eventually.

If I was wanting to move here from the UK now, I would wait, let the dust settle and learn from other people's experiences. And save. Save as much money as possible!


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

Believe me when I say that I take no solace in saying this: Welcome to my world. As a US citizen we have to navigate all of this too for our eventual move, and Overandout is spot on when he says that Spain needing our money from non-EU people could bring is not even a consideration. Luckily I'm in an extremely high demand technical field (cloud architect). There are a few job types that are "desired" for immigration, and that's high on the list.

I'll be watching these types of posts a lot closer now that the UK is in a very similar situation as the US; I hope to learn from others pain and frustration so we don't go through it.

Good luck regardless!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CltFlyboy said:


> Believe me when I say that I take no solace in saying this: Welcome to my world. As a US citizen we have to navigate all of this too for our eventual move, and Overandout is spot on when he says that Spain needing our money from non-EU people could bring is not even a consideration. Luckily I'm in an extremely high demand technical field (cloud architect). There are a few job types that are "desired" for immigration, and that's high on the list.
> 
> I'll be watching these types of posts a lot closer now that the UK is in a very similar situation as the US; I hope to learn from others pain and frustration so we don't go through it.
> 
> Good luck regardless!


British citizens are now in exactly the same position as you!


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> British citizens are now in exactly the same position as you!


Yep, and that really stinks for them. I can't tell you how much research and things to worry about there are. Fun times.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CltFlyboy said:


> Yep, and that really stinks for them. I can't tell you how much research and things to worry about there are. Fun times.


I know. If there's one thing I'm grateful for, it's that we made the move so many years ago, when it really was a case of packing a few suitcases & rocking up in Spain just to see if we liked it. 

17 years later we clearly did...


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## Antoni88 (Sep 23, 2018)

Getting a work visa is not an option in your situation I am afraid, very few jobs would qualify for that. Self employed (Autonomo) is a way to go and is not that complicated. I believe if just one of you register should be enough. I definitely would hire adviser for all that.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

kaipa said:


> Just to play devil's advocate; where I live there are lots of young Russian families. About 30 % of my son's class is Russian. Now all these people seem to have jobs here and they certainly are not wealthy. Now if young Russians can manage to get residency and jobs , either the system has some dubious methods available, or it isnt as restrictive as we imagine.


Very interesting. Where in Spain do you live?


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## SteveG999 (Aug 5, 2020)

Helenamy said:


> Hi all landed here as I’ve been reading so much confusing and conflicting info since brexit rules changed. We had planned on buying last year and moving before brexit rules changed but obviously covid got in our way. It’s been my life long dream to follow my brother out to Spain and my other half wants to move there as his Dad is there too. We saved for the house purchase so we could buy a simple place and now I’m reading it may not be be possible! We had planned on relocating my little online business which would bring enough a month for us to live on, not like kings and queens but enough. We planned on using savings until it was setup again in Spain and having spoken with family about costs, we would have been ok doing this. So now I read we have to either have jobs there that each bring in around £2000 a month, or go self employed but probably not be able to go that route without complications? Is that right? Also I read that to have a job there either you need to apply and get it before you get to Spain or be on the ‘list’ of jobs that they need to fill, I can’t remember what it’s called sorry. My other half should be ok as he is a truck/mechanical technician but I would need to qualify for something else like teaching.
> I am just really confused! Is there a way we can move over there now? Do we really need to be earning £2000 each to do it? I have an NIE from when I was going to buy before, does that help me at all?
> Am currently devastated that what I’ve been saving and living for as long as I can remember may not be doable now! Any advice really appreciated.
> Thank you


Hi there,
Please take a look at this link:


http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Documents/RES%20ES-EN.pdf



Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SteveG999 said:


> Hi there,
> Please take a look at this link:
> 
> 
> ...


 That's the link posted in the first reply to the thread!


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## SteveG999 (Aug 5, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> That's the link posted in the first reply to the thread!


Yes it is, sorry buddy! 
All the best, Steve


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## James34 (Aug 29, 2021)

How did you get on?
There seemed to be a lot of doom and gloom from some people. I’m looking to move on a non-lucrative visa and work remotely. I will have a decent amount of cash come move date.
Out of interest when it comes to demonstrating funds for the next two years of the visa, does anybody know if they will include money in share portfolios/bonds etc?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

James34 said:


> How did you get on?
> There seemed to be a lot of doom and gloom from some people. I’m looking to move on a non-lucrative visa and work remotely. I will have a decent amount of cash come move date.
> Out of interest when it comes to demonstrating funds for the next two years of the visa, does anybody know if they will include money in share portfolios/bonds etc?



You can't work on the NLV even remotely. Obviously you can do it for a short while illegally but eventually you will be caught as your UK bank will request a residency declaration. Once caught you will be fined and have Visa revoked.


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## James34 (Aug 29, 2021)

kaipa said:


> You can't work on the NLV even remotely. Obviously you can do it for a short while illegally but eventually you will be caught as your UK bank will request a residency declaration. Once caught you will be fined and have Visa revoked.


I’m not looking to avoid taxation and wanted to contribute, I’d certainly heard otherwise from other people.
I will also have enough funds to clear for a year, but would rather work as the money won’t last for ever.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I dont mean to imply you wont pay tax what I mean is that it will be difficult to do a tax return if you are working remotely but not registered as autonomo and as far as I know you cant register as autonomo if you are on a NLV.


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## James34 (Aug 29, 2021)

kaipa said:


> I dont mean to imply you wont pay tax what I mean is that it will be difficult to do a tax return if you are working remotely but not registered as autonomo and as far as I know you cant register as autonomo if you are on a NLV.


I believed that you can’t go for a working Visa if you work for a non EU based company but relocate to do so from Spain? The industry I work in is very much remote working now, but as you’ve said Spanish companies will employ Spaniards first and foremost, which is right (not that I wouldn’t pay for a companies visa expenses myself if given the option).

I’d been directed to a couple of sites that actually stated that a NLV was the Visa to apply for in my situation. I’d have to switch tax paying to Spain at some point in the future to avoid double taxation.

As I said I can cover the funds for a year or so, due to savings, but it’s obviously not a long time solution (unless I win the lottery). Unfortunately although I have Spanish ancestry and can speak to a relatively decent level, I missed the cut off to obtain a passport when my Abuelita died. So some kind of Visa will be needed.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

James34 said:


> I believed that you can’t go for a working Visa if you work for a non EU based company but relocate to do so from Spain? The industry I work in is very much remote working now, but as you’ve said Spanish companies will employ Spaniards first and foremost, which is right (not that I wouldn’t pay for a companies visa expenses myself if given the option).
> 
> I’d been directed to a couple of sites that actually stated that a NLV was the Visa to apply for in my situation. I’d have to switch tax paying to Spain at some point in the future to avoid double taxation.
> 
> As I said I can cover the funds for a year or so, due to savings, but it’s obviously not a long time solution (unless I win the lottery). Unfortunately although I have Spanish ancestry and can speak to a relatively decent level, I missed the cut off to obtain a passport when my Abuelita died. So some kind of Visa will be needed.


Ask the Spanish Consulate in London directly. They will tell you that you mustn't work with a NLV, & that you would be in breach of the visa conditions if you were to do so.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think there have been a number of people on this forum asking about remote working on NLV and as far as I know the legal position is that you cant. I just dont know why people don't phone the Spanish embassy and simply ask if its possible. Surely they could give you a definitive answer?


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## James34 (Aug 29, 2021)

That will be next port of call. Until reading this I had been given a clear impression that the NL Visa meant you couldn’t work ‘in Spain’ for a Spanish company in the traditional sense, but remote working was fine, hence no clarification. 
I guess these are the problems with forums, can be very helpful, but also lots of opinions from people who aren’t going through that process and it can become a lot of guesswork.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

James34 said:


> That will be next port of call. Until reading this I had been given a clear impression that the NL Visa meant you couldn’t work ‘in Spain’ for a Spanish company in the traditional sense, but remote working was fine, hence no clarification.
> I guess these are the problems with forums, can be very helpful, but also lots of opinions from people who aren’t going through that process and it can become a lot of guesswork.


I've had sight of an email response to someone who asked the consulate in London about this, & the reply was as I wrote earlier.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

James34 said:


> That will be next port of call. Until reading this I had been given a clear impression that the NL Visa meant you couldn’t work ‘in Spain’ for a Spanish company in the traditional sense, but remote working was fine, hence no clarification.
> I guess these are the problems with forums, can be very helpful, but also lots of opinions from people who aren’t going through that process and it can become a lot of guesswork.


On these things its is always better to go straight to the official source. Many people work remotely online in Spain. Many will say there is no problem. But often you find they have never registered as autonomo and effectively pretend not to be working when it comes to their tax returns. Many are young and only stay a year or two before moving etc. Doesn't mean that because they were never contacted by Hacienda that it was legal


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Which part of no work permitted on an NLV are you failing to grasp?

Work is work be it physically in a shop/factory/ whatever or remotely.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

A possible ray of hope for some - Portugal don't require much money at all and their tax regime actually helps immigration - not that I'm an expert - I'm just trying to make sense of it all 

Davexf


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