# Relocating to Spain



## meishuobaby (2 mo ago)

Greetings, all! My husband and I are hoping to move to Spain permanently next year. My husband is in the middle of getting his Irish passport but the waiting time could be around 2 years, so we decide to get self employed visas while waiting. We have a few questions here listed as below,



1. Can we both teach English online as we already have been doing this and apply for autonomo visa? We both have been ESL teachers with TEFL and degrees for over five years in China n UK. 

2. How much do we need to have as a deposit to apply for it ? I searched a lot but couldn't find a definite answer for the amount of savings needed. 

3. Can our two kids attend local schools free of charge?

4. Do we have to apply for the visa in the UK or can we apply for it while holidaying in Spain?



In the long run, we hope to set up a language school or open a supermarket. What are the options there for us?


We would be so grateful if you could help us answer the questions. 



Many thanks,


The Parkers


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

meishuobaby said:


> Greetings, all! My husband and I are hoping to move to Spain permanently next year. My husband is in the middle of getting his Irish passport but the waiting time could be around 2 years, so we decide to get self employed visas while waiting. We have a few questions here listed as below,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Welcome!

In order for you both to work, you will each need a self-employment visa. You have to apply in yor country of usual residence. I imagine you have looked at the official requirements, but just in case you haven't, here's a link Self-employed work visa

There's nothing about how much the required financial means are; it probably depends on the kind of business.

I believe that each child will need a non-lucrative visa. Non-working residence visa

Yes, if your visas are granted, the children would be able to attend locals schools free of charge. 

I don't know about changing from teaching online to opening a supermarket - a language school might simply be expansion of 'current business', but at the renewal application at the end of the first year, yuo can apply for a change of conditions to the visa.


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## 1kaipa (Jul 20, 2019)

There are a number of things that you raise in your post , each of which probably requires fairly detailed responses. 
The above post from X provides links to the official information you require but it is probably going to be quite general so you will need to possibly explore a bit more.
On the subject of Spanish schools: alot depends on the age of the children. If very young then the Spanish system will be fine for the most part as they should acquire enough Spanish language to be able to move to secondary. If they are around about 9 or 10 they will possibly have problems especially if you don't speak Spanish as even at this age they get alot of homework with things like geography, language, basic science plus literature and they need to be able to prepare for regular tests. Alot of this involves memorising so this will be especially hard for them with basic Spanish and most parents help them by writing out sentences to memorise. It is very different to UK systems. My personal experience is that a vast majority of UK kids do not do particularly well in Spanish schools as their parents are simply unable to really help or motivate them. Of course, there are some who do well but most will have been in Spain very early on in their lives or born here and their parents also often have integrated into the Spanish system.
If they are older then of course there are bilingual international schools but these are quite expensive. They often follow a UK syllabus but be aware that in 2028 all UK nationals will be considered international students and will need to pay the extremely expensive oversee fees with no recourse to loans even if the parents have paid tax there for many years!!!
So give this a bit of thought so you are aware of what you and the children might face education wise.


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## meishuobaby (2 mo ago)

xabiaxica said:


> Welcome!
> 
> In order for you both to work, you will each need a self-employment visa. You have to apply in yor country of usual residence. I imagine you have looked at the official requirements, but just in case you haven't, here's a link Self-employed work visa
> 
> ...


Hi there, thank you so much for your detailed reply. Yes, I did have a look and couldnt see the required funds for the autonomo visa. If the children need NLV, I think that is way beyond out financial ability. I got some info on the required savings for the NLV and it was 28k euros per head. 
Maybe we should just live between Spain and the UK homeschool my 6 and 9 years old whilst waiting for the arrival for my other half's Irish passport. 
Anyway, I really appreciate your reply! All the very best!


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## meishuobaby (2 mo ago)

1kaipa said:


> There are a number of things that you raise in your post , each of which probably requires fairly detailed responses.
> The above post from X provides links to the official information you require but it is probably going to be quite general so you will need to possibly explore a bit more.
> On the subject of Spanish schools: alot depends on the age of the children. If very young then the Spanish system will be fine for the most part as they should acquire enough Spanish language to be able to move to secondary. If they are around about 9 or 10 they will possibly have problems especially if you don't speak Spanish as even at this age they get alot of homework with things like geography, language, basic science plus literature and they need to be able to prepare for regular tests. Alot of this involves memorising so this will be especially hard for them with basic Spanish and most parents help them by writing out sentences to memorise. It is very different to UK systems. My personal experience is that a vast majority of UK kids do not do particularly well in Spanish schools as their parents are simply unable to really help or motivate them. Of course, there are some who do well but most will have been in Spain very early on in their lives or born here and their parents also often have integrated into the Spanish system.
> If they are older then of course there are bilingual international schools but these are quite expensive. They often follow a UK syllabus but be aware that in 2028 all UK nationals will be considered international students and will need to pay the extremely expensive oversee fees with no recourse to loans even if the parents have paid tax there for many years!!!
> So give this a bit of thought so you are aware of what you and the children might face education wise.


Wow, I never realised that Spanish education is so different from the UK. I think my son would struggle as he is nine now. My daughter might be ok. Yes, there are indeed quite a number of things I really need to consider for sure! We are currently residing in China and both teaching English at an international school here. Things were ok as covid lockdowns were pretty much worldwide back a year or two ago. However, it is a different story here now as the measures are getting more and more stringent day by day! We have to get PCR tests done every day or every other day. To be honest, we cant see an end to this and it has taken a toll on our mental health. Hence, we decide to get out for good. But we really dont wanna move back to the UK either. So it is a dilemma really. I am really hoping that Spain may be the best solution. However, after receiving all the advice, I realise there are more obstacles than I thought. 

Your reply has definitely given me food for thought. Many thanks and all the best!


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## 1kaipa (Jul 20, 2019)

meishuobaby said:


> Hi there, thank you so much for your detailed reply. Yes, I did have a look and couldnt see the required funds for the autonomo visa. If the children need NLV, I think that is way beyond out financial ability. I got some info on the required savings for the NLV and it was 28k euros per head.
> Maybe we should just live between Spain and the UK homeschool my 6 and 9 years old whilst waiting for the arrival for my other half's Irish passport.
> Anyway, I really appreciate your reply! All the very best!


Sorry to say but homeschooling as far as I know is illegal in Spain ( well at least in Alicante/ Valencia). Besides, teaching your children in English would not help them enter a Spanish school and would simply disadvantage them even more. If you are qualified secondary school teachers you could look for jobs in international schools- they usually offer places for children of staff, and they are more likely to arrange visas. Saving this, if you are used to teaching abroad I would look at jobs in places like Dubai and Saudi or UAE. These often pay very well and the teachers I know who work there seem to enjoy a good level of living. All this depends on your experience and qualifications- if you don't have a Masters or the Diploma you should first get that as TEFL qualifications are no longer considered academic enough ( you don't need a degree for them) for serious academies.


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## meishuobaby (2 mo ago)

1kaipa said:


> Sorry to say but homeschooling as far as I know is illegal in Spain ( well at least in Alicante/ Valencia). Besides, teaching your children in English would not help them enter a Spanish school and would simply disadvantage them even more. If you are qualified secondary school teachers you could look for jobs in international schools- they usually offer places for children of staff, and they are more likely to arrange visas. Saving this, if you are used to teaching abroad I would look at jobs in places like Dubai and Saudi or UAE. These often pay very well and the teachers I know who work there seem to enjoy a good level of living. All this depends on your experience and qualifications- if you don't have a Masters or the Diploma you should first get that as TEFL qualifications are no longer considered academic enough ( you don't need a degree for them) for serious academies.


You are spot on about TEFL which is really just a piece of paper. We both have Masters but no QTS. In china, all they require is a Batchelors and TEFL. They don't really know about the ins and outs of QTS and PGCE. Some of the expats would take an online iPGCE but to me it look like a waste of time. Because in many good European and South Asian international schools, they only accept QTS, I am not sure if they need TAs in the international schools there as we are more than happy to take those roles. Looks like being hired by international schools is our only option for a safe move. Other than that, we would face way too many obstacles, almost like a recipe for disasters. ( 

Thank you!!!


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## Max Rigger (Aug 2, 2020)

Why Spain? Personally I'd not entertain the idea of moving with children over the age of five especially if I wasn't fluent in the language of the new country.

Canada, Australia or New Zealand would make life and integration so much simpler for them and less stressful for you. I work offshore so have lived in those three countries and they all have space...lots and lots of space plus opportunities for potentially you but certainly for your children as they grow which are far broader than anything Spain can offer you.

I've been based in Spain for just over a year, I'm divorced, my grown son is still in England and I picked Spain basically because I'm at a point in my life where I can indulge myself. If my lad was a nipper we'd both be in New Zealand.

Just my pennies worth and no offence meant.


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

To the OP, others who have replied, have already highlighted various issues that will have to be addressed, so I will not tackle those points.

Max Rigger, I couldn't disagree with your more strongly!

In fact, I would say that you’ve been here such a short time that you are a ‘newbie’, and as such, not even in a position to offer considered advise!

Quality of life here in Spain is second to none compared to anywhere else in Europe and I’ve been in every European country. If you need to travel back to the UK at short notice, it is quite affordable and fast, as opposed to travelling from bongo-bongo land, on the far side of the planet. This is the major advantage of remaining in Europe. Pre-Covid, I was typically making the trip 10 times a year to maintain contact with family and friends. In effect, you can ‘have your cake and eat it’ (as one dumb Brexiteers said)! You can enjoy your new life in Spain, but equally still keep close family and friends relationships going, back in the UK, or Ireland for that matter. Forget about Facebook, to keep these things going if you are on the far side of the planet, as you will drift apart gradually.

But the thing that puzzles me most is that Max Rigger is recommending that you move to the other side of the planet, yet he has not done that himself…! Sort of speaks volumes, if you ask me…

But there we go, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it, which is nothing.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

dancingspider said:


> To the OP, others who have replied, have already highlighted various issues that will have to be addressed, so I will not tackle those points.
> 
> Max Rigger, I couldn't disagree with your more strongly!
> 
> ...


All well said. 
BUT.. 

The Op is currently residing and working in China. 
So your comments are worth less than those you have rubbished. 

In fact a move to Aus or NZ would be a closer move than to Europe, and with the numbers of Chinese and other Asian nationals living in these two places, they would probably be better off and get work easier. 

As to loosing contact via Facebook etc with family and friends in so called remote places. Apart from the time difference there is no issue. 
My daughter has lived in Aus for the last 7 years and we talk via WhatsApp two or three times a week. I also have ex work colleagues and friends in NZ and we have a regular get together via zoom. One of these has lived down there for the last 25 years and we are still mates. 

However none of this address's the OP question. 
And as someone who retired here I can't give advise on how the kids would cope. 
I do know family's who moved here with young children and almost all of them regret doing so as they feel that their children, while in most cases are bi lingual, their education standards are lower due to learning a second language and being in most cases held back a year when they first arrived. 
Most of them are now doing low paid jobs (if indeed they can get one at all) as the youth unemployment here is huge compared with the UK, Aus and NZ. 

We moved 4 or 5 times in the UK while the kids were growing up and I think our selfishness impacted on my kids education. 
I don't think work nomads etc, bother to think of the long term impact their decisions actually make to those around them. And in fact rarely even consider the effects on their children. 

Anyway that's my 2c


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## 1kaipa (Jul 20, 2019)

Barriej said:


> All well said.
> BUT..
> 
> The Op is currently residing and working in China.
> ...


I very much agree with your sentiments concerning the self-interested actions of parents and the impact on their children. There tends to be a cliche: oh don't worry about children they adapt and besides they get to learn other cultures and can be outside all the time. Meanwhile Mum lies in the Sun and dad boasts about how cheap everything is compared to UK etc. Children do suffer when moved around. It's not nice having to constantly readapt into new places, new schools, new people. Of course it takes a toll- but children are not able to fully communicate their feelings and emotions which means parents often think for them!! It also impacts on their future opportunities. Very few British kids flourish in Spain. Even when born here the lack of social integration of the family ( usually moving in expat circles) isolates the kids and keeps them in bubbles. Language disadvantages even the brightest children as they rarely acquire real fluency unless submerged with Spanish speakers practically all the time. I make my opinions based on experience on coming here with a 10 year old and also having met many families in similar circumstances.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

1kaipa said:


> I very much agree with your sentiments concerning the self-interested actions of parents and the impact on their children. There tends to be a cliche: oh don't worry about children they adapt and besides they get to learn other cultures and can be outside all the time. Meanwhile Mum lies in the Sun and dad boasts about how cheap everything is compared to UK etc. Children do suffer when moved around. It's not nice having to constantly readapt into new places, new schools, new people. Of course it takes a toll- but children are not able to fully communicate their feelings and emotions which means parents often think for them!! It also impacts on their future opportunities. Very few British kids flourish in Spain. Even when born here the lack of social integration of the family ( usually moving in expat circles) isolates the kids and keeps them in bubbles. Language disadvantages even the brightest children as they rarely acquire real fluency unless submerged with Spanish speakers practically all the time. I make my opinions based on experience on coming here with a 10 year old and also having met many families in similar circumstances.


I certainly don't recognise my family there. 

We moved to Spain nearly 20 years ago when the children were 7 & 4. My husband died when they were 15 & 12. Now as adults, they frequently thank me for not succumbing to the UK family pressure to return to the UK with them. Spain was, & is, their home. We are still in the town where they grew up & they are very much part of the community.


I do agree that there are fewer work opportunities in Spain, but that is nothing to do with the education system. My elder child is currently in the UK for work, & several of her Spanish friends are spread across Europe. They of course can't easily go to live in the UK, nor her, still with a British passport, to Europe . Every single one of them plans to return to their home town when it's time to 'settle down'. They are all in their mid to late 20s.


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## 1kaipa (Jul 20, 2019)

xabiaxica said:


> I certainly don't recognise my family there.
> 
> We moved to Spain nearly 20 years ago when the children were 7 & 4. My husband died when they were 15 & 12. Now as adults, they frequently thank me for not succumbing to the UK family pressure to return to the UK with them. Spain was, & is, their home. We are still in the town where they grew up & they are very much part of the community.
> 
> ...


I think your family is perhaps the exception to rule and that is perhaps down to the fact that maybe you learnt Spanish, worked and integrated into the system and the children were very young. Most expats aren't here for work and live in area where life reflects their cultural identities. This will always disadvantage the kids


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

1kaipa said:


> Most expats aren't here for work and live in area where life reflects their cultural identities.


Do you have any data to support those two statement, as follows:

1) Most expats aren't here for work 
2) Most expats .... live in area where life reflects their cultural identities.


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## Max Rigger (Aug 2, 2020)

dancingspider said:


> To the OP, others who have replied, have already highlighted various issues that will have to be addressed, so I will not tackle those points.
> 
> Max Rigger, I couldn't disagree with your more strongly!
> 
> ...


Matters not if I've been here for a week or a decade mate, my views are mine and are valid in my opinion. I spent quite a while reading past posts on this and other forums and in my opinion way to many people are coming to Spain with youngsters too old to fully integrate in terms of language and education and are therefore putting their children in a disadvantaged situation so mommy and daddy can live their dream or fantasy...children come first in my view and if I was moving with young children for a better life it would be an English speaking nation, give them a good chance of blossoming in their new country.

I take it your a lot older than me, 'bongo-bongo' land while OK back in the day is now considered racist, you enjoy your life and I'll enjoy mine thats for sure...have a nice day.


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