# Minor turning 18



## footsoldier

Hello, I have a question about minor's dependant visiteur visa. My child is 17 this year. If we get the visiteur visa this year, he will have turned 18 by the time we renew our visa next year. Will the 18-year-old be allowed to renew along with us or will he have to either depart or apply for another visa on his own? If so, will the new visa for him be a visituer or student visa? Thanks in advance.


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## Bevdeforges

As with all things like this, the answer is "it depends." Renewing a visa (actually, renewing the associated residence permit) usually requires that the person can show that they still fulfill the requirements of the original visa. In your son's case, a visiteur visa/residence permit requires that the person swear that they will not engage in paid work during the term of the "titre de séjour." 

How to best handle this might be to figure out what it is your son's situation will be when he turns 18. If he is still considered a "dependent" of your household, he may be able to continue on the visiteur visa. (I'm not sure how that works with a student dependent.) He may need to "change status" to that of a student - though be careful as that time may or may not be counted toward total "residence" time for things like a multi-year carte de séjour or toward eligibility for taking French nationality. If he's planning on working, that will also take some planning as there are limitations on how much a "student" can work, and definite limitations on employers being able to hire a foreigner on a non-working carte de séjour status. 

You may want to contact either the French consulate or the visa processing agency for the country in which you currently live (if there is one) to ask them what your son's status will be for renewal of his residence permit after his 18th birthday. It's possible he may have to get a "family reunification" visa but I think for that category (i.e. "vie privée et familiale") you may have to prove that he is dependent on you and your spouse.


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## footsoldier

Thank you so much for your detailed answer, which is reassuring because I believe he is going to qualify as dependent since he'll remain a full-time student next year with no intention to seek employment. May I confirm with you if residency time spent with a dependent visa qualifies for naturalization? Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges

I'm no expert on the residency requirements, but given that there is no "dependency visa" as such, I would expect that if he stays on a "visiteur" visa, the time should all count.


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## 255

@footsoldier -- "In order to apply for citizenship you need to have lived permanently and continuously in France for 5 years and fulfill certain conditions." So yes, time as a dependent counts. Your son will need to apply for a change of status when he turns 18: Fact sheet: "Accompanying family" simplified procedure - Welcome to France . The "continuous" part is important -- if he leaves France to get a new visa, the clock starts again -- so try to effect a "change of status," while remaining in France. Many of the members on this forum seem to be retirement age or have younger kids, I haven't personally seen this query come-up before.

There are two additional solutions, that you may/may not want to consider: a. the "Passport Talent" is a multi year (up to four years and renewable) resident permit that can be initiated in (or outside of) France. I have read about a number of graduating university students that have formed French companies (based on their new degrees) to secure their stay in France, after graduation and b. join the French Foreign Legion -- I have served with Legionaries and have a friend that joined the Legion. This allows an expedited path to citizenship and after citizenship, they can also transfer to the regular French Army (with loads of experience,) or discharge, after their term of service and go to college or whatever he would want to do.






International talents | France-Visas.gouv.fr


The multi-year “passeport talent” residence permit was created to simplify the arrival of entrepreneurs and managers wishing to contribute to France’s economic attractiveness.



france-visas.gouv.fr




.



http://foreignlegion.info/joining/



France had mandatory military service, when I was young, but it was abolished in 2001. President Macron talked about bringing back some type of mandatory national service (civil or military) during his first election, but I haven't kept up with the progress. Cheers, 255


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## Bevdeforges

France does have a mandatory "citizenship day" sort of thing where the high school age kids have to attend a weekend class devoted to the rights and responsibilities of citizenship and such. (Actually would be a good program for adults taking French nationality - but I digress <g>) I'm not sure what year of school that happens. But the key thing is to start asking (in the school, at the mairie and/or prefecture) before that first residence permit comes up for renewal. 

Depends on what his plans are - continuing in school or doing an appenticeship type program or looking for a job. As a dependent he can (I believe) continue his studies. But when he starts looking for work, that will be when things get a bit more complicated - or maybe not. Does your son speak French at a level sufficient to attend French public school? But there should be a way for him to change status in some manner, depending on what he is planning on doing. If he's planning on attending university or other tertiary education outside of France after finishing "high school" (lycée), that's when things could get complicated, even if you still consider him your dependent.


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## footsoldier

@255 Thanks for your suggestions. I read the web page with the welcome-to-france link that you shared, but I ended up still hugely confused: the simplified procedure applies to the main applicant (me in this case) who either holds a Talent Passport or who is in the category of "intra-company transfer". The visiteur visa is nowhere mentioned. Anyway, let me state, in my next post, our situation more clearly and any advice from you will be appreciated.


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## footsoldier

@Bevdeforges @255
I received your advice with appreciation, though I'm still at a loss... But now that we've got our visa, I can state our situation more specifically.

Our VLS-TS visiteur visa will expire in September 2023, but my child will turn 18 in April, i.e. five months earlier than the visa expiration date. In 2023 he'll still be in lycée (expect to finish Terminal by summer 2024). So couple months prior to September 2023 we all need to apply for our first residence permit. I of course will still be in the visitor category, but will my 18yo get a dependent visitor permit OR an independent student permit? If the latter, can he change status from visitor to student without having to leave France and reapply for a student visa? Note that in 2023 the 18yo won't be in university but still in lycée, if this info is relevant. 

Finally, does anyone have any idea how to enroll into a lycée upon arriving in France? Do we have to go to a government office (what name of the office?) to be assigned to, say, the nearest lycée OR can we directly contact a lycée that we wish to attend (even though it may not be the nearest)? Thanks for any advice!


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## footsoldier

One more question: Although we hold a visa that serves as residence permit (which means we won't have a separate permit during the first year), is there any kind of local ID (besides driver's license) that we can obtain so that we won't have to carry our passports all the time? Thanks.


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## 255

@footsoldier -- I've looked over the French visa websites, but like you, haven't found a specific answer to your question -- but just a few thoughts:

First, to convert your initial visa to a resident permit -- you'll need to schedule an appointment with the OFII and meet their requirements. You will not get a "resident card" until you renew after your first year.

Second -- you cannot change a visa or resident type while in France, with the exception of obtaining the Passeport Talent.

Third, there is no need to have a student visa to attend school in France. If your son has another type of resident permit (as your dependent,) he can register for classes. I see no advantage to getting a student visa.

Fourth, you might ask the OFII or your Prefecture your question, after you arrive in France.

Fifth -- check out the following pdf, it does mention exemptions for students, under age 21, albeit for income taxes:

*Living in France - immigration.interieur.gouv.fr*

Cheers, 255


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## Lydi

footsoldier said:


> does anyone have any idea how to enroll into a lycée upon arriving in France?


Normally, if you choose to send him to a state _lycée général,_ your child attends the lycée of the area where you live**. 
Here's the official page giving details for enrolling at a lycée.
For lycées techniques and professionnels, you enroll according to the _filière_ (speciality) in which your son wants to study.
For a private lycée, I should imagine you can simply phone the school you're interested in (I have no experience of private schools).

** One way of getting into a lycée outside your sector is to apply to study a subject which is only taught in one particular school in your area. For example, asking for tuition in an "exotic" foreign language (Russian, Chinese, ...) or subjects like music, dance or drama, which aren't available everywhere.

I hope he has no problems speaking French. 
Otherwise, jumping into the French education system at 17 is going to be quite a challenge


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## Bevdeforges

It seems to be a peculiarity of the French system that a titre de séjour (validated visa for the first year in your cases) is valid until the expiration date, pretty much no matter what. Basically, you should be able to ask at either the OFII or perhaps at your son's school a few months before the visa/titre de séjour expires. I don't believe they'll issue a "dependent" visa for someone with family on a visiteur visa. But, the school should be able to give him the appropriate documents to change status to a student visa. Or, they may keep him on a visiteur visa until he finishes secondary education (and don't forget that the French secondary schools run an extra year - 13 years vs. the US school system 12 years. There is nothing saying that you need a student visa to attend secondary school.

To enroll in a lycée, you should probably talk to the local mairie, who can give you information on the lycées that cover the town in which you are living. (Bring all his school records indicating courses taken, grades, etc.) The mairie can advise you and send you to the proper school or office to get him enrolled. Be prepared to have them suggest (insist?) that he be held back a year, if only to get acquainted with the "peculiarities" of the French educational system - possibly also to let him see how he does with the language.


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## footsoldier

Thanks @Lydi. Your information is very helpful. My child will attend a state general lycée. French being his third language, he doesn’t speak it fluently yet but following classes is no problem. I looked at the link, it does say that the student will be assigned to a school in the "sector", which I assume means residential neighborhood? In other words, the decision will be theirs, not ours, unless we request dérogation. That's fine with us, as we will accept any school assigned.


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## footsoldier

Thanks @255. My comments on your five points:

First -- yes I understand. No problem.

Second -- Do you mean my child won't be able to change status from visitor to student without leaving France? As a matter of fact I wouldn't mind at all if he continues on his current visitor status. As both you and Bevdeforges have pointed out, he doesn’t needs a student visa to continue his study in lycée.

Third -- I agree. But since he'll reach 18 next year, I'm worried that he won't be considered eligible to remain a dependent. I don’t care which status, visitor or student, as long as he won't have to leave France to reapply for a new visa.

Fourth -- OK, I will do that. Maybe I'll just wait until when we renew next year.

Fifth -- Thanks. The document is apparently dated six years ago.


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## footsoldier

Thanks @Bevdeforges. My child's visa doesn’t say it's dependent, but obviously he was issued a visitor visa only because we applied together, so in essence it is still dependent. But when he reaches 18 next year, he'll no longer be considered a minor, so that's why I'm worried that he may no longer be allowed to apply as part of the family. I don’t care his new status will be visitor or student, as long as he isn't required to leave France to reapply. Yes, I will definitely reach out to the school or the mairie when renewal approaches next year.

About the possibility of being asked to repeat a year, that would be dreadful. We sure will resolutely resist that. Is this common among foreign students in France? I can understand if language is an issue, but it's a much lesser issue for my child as French is his third language, and following classes is not a problem at all.

By the way, do you know if there is any local ID that I can obtain during my first year? This is because I won't have a resident permit during the first year, and I want a local ID in place of my passport. Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges

footsoldier said:


> About the possibility of being asked to repeat a year, that would be dreadful. We sure will resolutely resist that. Is this common among foreign students in France? I can understand if language is an issue, but it's a much lesser issue for my child as French is his third language, and following classes is not a problem at all.


It's extremely common for foreign students. And in the long run, it really is probably beneficial as the French curriculum is extremely specific - in terms of how one writes essays, how one is evaluated in classes, how one phrases responses to questions, etc. It really wouldn't be all that much of a "tragedy" if he is asked to repeat a year, simply to give him some space to get used to the French educational system. But let the local school officials guide you on this one.


footsoldier said:


> if there is any local ID that I can obtain during my first year?


Not really. Though in many situations where you are "spontaneously" asked to show your i.d. you may have 24 hours to get it and return to the police station (or wherever else) to produce it. (Used to be that way - not sure if that rule/law still applies.) Otherwise, just bring your passport with you when you're on some sort of "administrative" task or appointment. (Which isn't all that often in that first year.)


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## Lydi

footsoldier said:


> I looked at the link, it does say that the student will be assigned to a school in the "sector", which I assume means residential neighborhood?


Yes, students are usually sent to the lycée closest to their home. Though things can be complicated.
I live in a small town about 20 km from Limoges. There is only a collège in our town so students are sent to Limoges when they reach the end of collège (14 - 15 yrs old). There are over a dozen lycées in Limoges (a mix of state / private, general, technological, professional, ...) but only one counts as the lycée for our sector.


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## footsoldier

I was looking to open an account with a fintech, which accepts three types of documents: EU ID card, EU passport, or a French Titre de séjour. Since I won't have a residence permit during the first year, will my validated visa qualify as a Titre de séjour?



Bevdeforges said:


> Not really. Though in many situations where you are "spontaneously" asked to show your i.d. you may have 24 hours to get it and return to the police station (or wherever else) to produce it. (Used to be that way - not sure if that rule/law still applies.) Otherwise, just bring your passport with you when you're on some sort of "administrative" task or appointment. (Which isn't all that often in that first year.)


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## Bevdeforges

Your validated visa in your passport IS your "titre de séjour" for the first year in France. See this explanation (from the French government - and in English!) Long-stay visa France equivalent to a residence permit (VLS-TS) - Welcome to France


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## footsoldier

That's great. Thanks.



Bevdeforges said:


> Your validated visa in your passport IS your "titre de séjour" for the first year in France.


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