# TRAVELLING MAN - Pedrógão Grande



## siobhanwf

You will all know by now of the horrendous loss of life in the Pedrógão Grande area of Portugal.

Many of you will know that TRAVELLING MAN lives in the area.

I have just come off the phone with him HE IS SAFE
however there is no certainty about his house as when he left the fires was within meters of the house. 
20 minutes previously it had been 15 plus kms away!
They fled with their pets and he and his wife are safe. But the have no knowledge of the state of their home.
So far he knowS that there are 11 deaD in his village and 4 in two villages close by.
The flames descended so quickly anyone is lucky to be alive.

STAY SAFE TRAVELLING MAN


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## Mattskii

siobhanwf said:


> You will all know by now of the horrendous loss of life in the Pedrógão Grande area of Portugal.
> 
> Many of you will know that TRAVELLING MAN lives in the area.
> 
> I have just come off the phone with him HE IS SAFE
> however there is no certainty about his house as when he left the fires was within meters of the house.
> 20 minutes previously it had been 15 plus kms away!
> They fled with their pets and he and his wife are safe. But the have no knowledge of the state of their home.
> So far he know that there are 11 dea in his village and 4 in two villages close by.
> The flames descended so quickly anyone is lucky to be alive.
> 
> STAY SAFE TRAVELLING MAN


Thanks for the update, glad he is safe. 
My house is just a few miles away from his. My ex-wife lives there. She has reported in as being safe also. Apparently our garden is burned but the house survived, just 1 cracked window is the only damage. How lucky! 

Sending love to all involved in the area! <3


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## siobhanwf

MATTSKII so pleased to hear that your ex wife is safe. I know the area quite well as we have visited Travelling Man and the news is horrendous.

There are some concerns about another expat that no one has been able to contact - He is known as Digger Dave.


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## JohnBoy

Thank you Matt and Siobhán for the updates. I had not heard of Digger Dave before. My thoughts go out to him and all others affected in the area. 

Matt, if you are in touch with your ex and she needs help with anything, please give her our contact details.


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## Mattskii

Certainly will JohnBoy, thank you!


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## azoreseuropa

I am glad that you are safe, Traveling man along with your wife and pets. Hope that your house is okay. It is the worse in history for global warming in Portugal. My pray is with you and everyone out there.

And you too, Mattskii.


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## Weebobsgrampa

thoughts and prayers to all who are effected by the terrible fires


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## siobhanwf

*An update from steve*

OK world. Just to let you all know Susan, Loola the Lab, our cat and I are all safe. The house survived with superficial damage but our ducks were sadly lost..... but I consider myself the luckiest man in the universe. I saved that which is most precious to me and losses are mostly minimal. Others here have lost everything and in my village alone, 11 perished. The best thingabout Portugal is the Portuguese people who are supportive and welcoming and their community spirit and support is phenomenal. I thank them all especially the rescue services who are all heroes. I thank them alL. In closing, we beat death so the grim reaper can go f**k himself


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## siobhanwf

*a further update*

No time to read all my notifications but a quick update...... The fire literally burned right up to the house and it's an absolute f**king miracle that the house and JEEP survived! - Biggest problem is the waste pipes under the house seem to have partially melted so the stone floors may have to come up...... we have power via generator and sporadic water but are surviving at home........ Safari life taught us how to be self sufficient........... Our entire village is in mourning cannot express how sad it is


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## travelling-man

Still safe and have the essentials but entire village is in mourning........ soooo many dead

We beat death by seconds & raced the fire for miles so the grim reaper can voetsak. 

Our entire village and the area for miles around is devastated in every imaginable way....... but our losses are minimal compared to most here


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## azoreseuropa

Travelling-man,

how is your house doing ? Glad that you are safe!

siobhanwf,

Sorry about your duck loss. And glad that you re safe as well. I am mourning for Portuguese people who didn't made it. Very sad!


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Still safe and have the essentials but entire village is in mourning........ soooo many dead
> 
> We beat death by seconds & raced the fire for miles so the grim reaper can voetsak.
> 
> Our entire village and the area for miles around is devastated in every imaginable way....... but our losses are minimal compared to most here


Hi TM. Thanks for getting in touch and we're so pleased to hear you have made it. You had us worried there! If there is anything that we can do to help, and I mean anything, please do not hesitate to ask. Do you have any news of Maggy Crawford? Does she live in the area?

Colin & Graça


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## Weebobsgrampa

again and again we realise how fragile our existance is,


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## travelling-man

Maggy & Graham are safe & along with their relatives Bob & Barbara have been incredibly supportive to us. - Love 'em all to bits! 

I cannot begin to express how lucky we were in so many ways but that's a story for another day


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## Mattskii

Hey TM so happy to hear from you! Was worried. Well done for getting out. 
My house in Moita also survived, the fire burned right through the garden and between it and the house next door breaking 1 window. It was that close. Elaine ran for it, being chased along the N236 by the fire as she went. Thank god she is OK too. 
Much love to everyone there


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Maggy & Graham are safe & along with their relatives Bob & Barbara have been incredibly supportive to us. - Love 'em all to bits!
> 
> I cannot begin to express how lucky we were in so many ways but that's a story for another day


Thanks for the update TM. Don't forget where we are if you need anything. 

Just Palawan and Digger Dave to account for now.


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## paramonte

Glad you are safe


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## travelling-man

I'm told that Digger Dave is safe but I haven't seen him


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> I'm told that Digger Dave is safe but I haven't seen him


Thanks TM.


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## Happy Dutch

travelling-man said:


> Still safe and have the essentials but entire village is in mourning........ soooo many dead
> 
> We beat death by seconds & raced the fire for miles so the grim reaper can voetsak.
> 
> Our entire village and the area for miles around is devastated in every imaginable way....... but our losses are minimal compared to most here


Glad you and your wife are safe, but I can imagine you are still in shock!

Our thoughts are with all who are effected by these terrible fires. Terrible that so many people lost their lifes. 
But also sad for all those who lost their home!

And sad because of the terrible damage made to the nature in this vast area!


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## travelling-man

From a Portuguese friend of mine who lectures on fire prevention etc:

I intend to enforce this to the absolute hilt in the area surrounding my home:

Accordingly to the law (Decreto-Lei n.º 17/2009, de 14 de Janeiro):

The landlords must clean and maintain cleaned of fuel:
- A stripe of more than 10 meters on both sides of any private road that gives access to any building;
- A minimum of 50 meters around the external walls of any building.

If they don’t comply with that, they can be fined 140 to 5,000 euro if it’s a private owner or 800 to 60,000 euro if it’s a company.

In case the area to be cleaned of fuel belongs to different owners each one must clean his own area so in total the law is complied.

The responsibility of the cleanings belongs to the owners, the tenants or whoever is using the land.

In case the owner doesn’t comply the municipality (Camara Municipal) should notify him and if nothing is done the Camara Municipal or the ICNF – Instituto da Conservacao da Natureza e das Florestas should do the cleaning and then ask the owner to pay them the debt.

This will hardly happen. In Portugal the government will never pay upfront of the owner, so they considered another way of solving the problem:

Owner B (who is afraid of burning himself and his belongings) replace Owner A (who should clean his land). Owner B should notify Owner A and post a notice in his land for 20 days (a few written signs in the property). In case nothing happens in the next 10 working days Owner B can do the cleaning and use all legal means to receive payment from Owner A. Owner B can sell the trees to pay those costs and later settle balance with Owner A.

Possibly it’s going to cost you more than the income from the wood. But if it’s the only available solution...

Attached a manual regarding the subject in Portuguese.

After all that happened in your area I believe the municipality or the ICNF will do the job.
You should contact the Camara Municipal and complain about it.
You can print this information and show them so there are no excuses.

Call me if you need any further help.


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## baldilocks

JohnBoy said:


> Thanks for the update TM. Don't forget where we are if you need anything.
> 
> Just Palawan and Digger Dave to account for now.


So any news on Palawan??


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## JohnBoy

baldilocks said:


> So any news on Palawan??


I haven't heard anything Baldilocks but a quick check of his profile showed him on line at 6.47 this evening and using Private Messaging. That is odd in itself as I thought the PM system wasn't available to members with less than 5 posts.


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## baldilocks

JohnBoy said:


> I haven't heard anything Baldilocks but a quick check of his profile showed him on line at 6.47 this evening and using Private Messaging. That is odd in itself as I thought the PM system wasn't available to members with less than 5 posts.


Strange but Mods can unlock so that although 5 is the normal number, the PM channel may have been opened for him. Possibly Siobhan may have sent a PM for him to make contact and opened the PMs so that he could reply.

If he is OK, is that everybody accounted for, now?


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## JohnBoy

y


baldilocks said:


> Strange but Mods can unlock so that although 5 is the normal number, the PM channel may have been opened for him. Possibly Siobhan may have sent a PM for him to make contact and opened the PMs so that he could reply.
> 
> If he is OK, is that everybody accounted for, now?


Everybody that has been mentioned here thanks.


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## travelling-man

If anyone can contact him please ash him to contact Siobhan who has my contact details and ask him to let me know if he needs anything at all


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## travelling-man

If anyone knows his name or where he lives please let me know & I'll go look for him


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> If anyone knows his name or where he lives please let me know & I'll go look for him


It seems all we have is that they have settled in Figueiro. He is from the UK and she is a Filipino. HAve you spoken to Siobhan about him? He was on line a few days ago and using the PM system. As he is not entitled (less than 5 posts) Baldilocks correctly suggested that Siobhan might be PMing with him. Having said that, according to his stats page he has been on line at 12.04 pm today.

Palawan, if you read this please let us know you are OK.


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## travelling-man

I'll call Siobhan


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## siobhanwf

*Palawan*

I have contacted Palawan by PM and hope to have a reply. He was online about midday today


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## JohnBoy

siobhanwf said:


> I have contacted Palawan by PM and hope to have a reply. He was online about midday today


Thank you Siobhán. I've seen Palawan on line a couple of times but it would be good to hear directly from him to see if he is OK or in need of help.

Interestingly, while trying to track him down, I learned that Palawan is actually a province of the Philippines where his wife is from. it is an archipelago of over 1700 islands with some pretty stunning beaches. I imagine this is where he got the idea for his forum name. Hopefully, one day we may hear more from the couple.


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## siobhanwf

JohnBoy said:


> I haven't heard anything Baldilocks but a quick check of his profile showed him on line at 6.47 this evening and using Private Messaging. That is odd in itself as I thought the PM system wasn't available to members with less than 5 posts.



True Johnboy but he may well have been reading the PM I sent him. As a moderator it is something I can access


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## travelling-man

Guys

Comms are short so forgive me for the short post. 

We're still at home & reasonably comfortable & the response on the Portuguese people has been nothing short of phenomenal. 

Not a day goes by that we don't get several visits from everyone from GNR, Bombeiros, Camara & Military to charities & even private individuals offering everything from food, drink & medical supplies to clothes & furniture. 

There's lots of good things about Portugal but the VERY best thing is the Portuguese people and I'll be eternally grateful for their kindness & support. 

Thanks also to everyone here for all the help & support they're giving.


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## baldilocks

travelling-man said:


> Guys
> 
> Comms are short so forgive me for the short post.
> 
> We're still at home & reasonably comfortable & the response on the Portuguese people has been nothing short of phenomenal.
> 
> Not a day goes by that we don't get several visits from everyone from GNR, Bombeiros, Camara & Military to charities & even private individuals offering everything from food, drink & medical supplies to clothes & furniture.
> 
> *There's lots of good things about Portugal but the VERY best thing is the Portuguese people and I'll be eternally grateful for their kindness & support.
> *
> Thanks also to everyone here for all the help & support they're giving.


This seems to be common throughout the Iberian peninsula, as evidenced by the reactions of people in this village when I have been carted off to hospital (too many times) in an ambulance.

Pleased to hear that you are doing OK TM. Here they still work on the old traditions in that when the man of the house was unwell/in hospital and couldn't work, on his return, there would be gifts of food (including whole chickens) to speed his recovery .


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## siobhanwf

Yesterday I had a call from TM and was more than pleased to hear that he was well and his wife Sue.
He said they managed to escape by the skin of their teeth. The fire had reached within 15m of his house. He sped away through walls of fire (a fire storm of unbelievable heat and sped) with the fire travelling at an estimated 120kms an hour. When he reached the main road a car drove in the direction they had come from trying to reach the village. Sadly he got about 20m up the road and the fire caught him. The heat so great it melted the engine block on the car.
When they returned 48hours later they found that their house was generally intact. This he puts down to not skimping on building materials! The double glazed windows only the outer panes had exploded the inner pane remained intact! The roofing on the garage held the fire away from his beloved vintage Jeeo and the only damage sustained was a little bit of the roofing. His motorcycle survived with just two burst real light bulbs. The inside of the house where the wooden beam were were safe as he had insisted on using roof beams imported from Sweden.
Once the damage was assessed he called the insurance company - an assessor turned up to check on the damage! The next morning the local insurance he used turned up with a builder in tow! Damage is in the tens of thousands. BUT THEY ARE ALIVE as are their dog and cat. Sadly he collection of ducks did not survive the inferno.
The village is devastated with 11 people dead, 6 from one family.


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## baldilocks

siobhanwf said:


> Yesterday I had a call from TM and was more than pleased to hear that he was well and his wife Sue.
> He said they managed to escape by the skin of their teeth. The fire had reached within 15m of his house. He sped away through walls of fire (a fire storm of unbelievable heat and sped) with the fire travelling at an estimated 120kms an hour. When he reached the main road a car drove in the direction they had come from trying to reach the village. Sadly he got about 20m up the road and the fire caught him. The heat so great it melted the engine block on the car.
> When they returned 48hours later they found that their house was generally intact. This he puts down to not skimping on building materials! The double glazed windows only the outer panes had exploded the inner pane remained intact! The roofing on the garage held the fire away from his beloved vintage Jeeo and the only damage sustained was a little bit of the roofing. His motorcycle survived with just two burst real light bulbs. The inside of the house where the wooden beam were were safe as he had insisted on using roof beams imported from Sweden.
> Once the damage was assessed he called the insurance company - an assessor turned up to check on the damage! The next morning the local insurance he used turned up with a builder in tow! Damage is in the tens of thousands. BUT THEY ARE ALIVE as are their dog and cat. Sadly he collection of ducks did not survive the inferno.
> The village is devastated with 11 people dead, 6 from one family.


Thank you Siobhan. You seem to have a lot of community spirit in the PT forum that we could do with more of in the ES forum.


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## siobhanwf

Another catch up on TM - Just got a few more minutes so will add that it's always a good idea to support your local small businesses because even they have been incredibly supportive. 

My local Intermarche opened it's doors on the night of the fire not only to the Bombeiros but also to he general public & just said help yourself to whatever you need & no payment necessary. 

One of my elderly neighbours lost her gas stove & bottle and one of the helpers phoned the local shop who immediately & without question sent out a new set up & even installed it for her at no charge


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## JohnBoy

siobhanwf said:


> Another catch up on TM - Just got a few more minutes so will add that it's always a good idea to support your local small businesses because even they have been incredibly supportive.
> 
> My local Intermarche opened it's doors on the night of the fire not only to the Bombeiros but also to he general public & just said help yourself to whatever you need & no payment necessary.
> 
> One of my elderly neighbours lost her gas stove & bottle and one of the helpers phoned the local shop who immediately & without question sent out a new set up & even installed it for her at no charge


Thank you for passing on these updates Siobhán. When you read of incidents such as this, it does restore some faith in folk. News that we genuinely need at times when PT TV is reporting looting of empty homes and theft of what is left of the copper telephone wires. They have also warned of people going door to door posing as government officials to gain entry into the homes of the elderly to rob them. There will always be some low life capitalising on other's misery at a time like this, but I am convinced that good will prevail.


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## travelling-man

Got comms back for a little while

Community support from every aspect of Portuguese society is still going on strong here & the local Junta has asked everyone to submit lists of all outdoor plants, trees, machinery & livestock lost in the fire, the Camara have visited with the military engineers to look at all the open wells that need covering & I’ve even heard that the landowners of the village of Aguda have said they’ll hand over all land within 500 metres of the village to the Camara and all commercial woodland will be felled in those areas & replanted with indigenous trees such as oak, chestnut & walnut etc so let’s hope that idea spreads to all landowners in all areas of Portugal. 

Not only will it make the country a whole lot safer from fires, it’ll also create a much more game friendly environment for the animals such as deer wild boar & birds etc. ……. On which subject, for those in affected areas, might I suggest you try to spare a thought for our wildlife that has also suffered so dreadfully. 

Put out containers of water & a variety of foods for our birdlife but remember to use containers that allows the access to what ever is in them. Buckets of water & piles of grain, maize or cracked maize for the deer and perhaps moistened dog food for the wild boar. 

So many have died so it’d be nice if we could even save a few……. And of course, place all of it in suitable locations away from traffic & close to what few trees are left.

I put one deer feeder out yesterday & had one deer visit overnight so that's one survivor at least.


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## travelling-man

Massive thanks to JohnBoy who came to my place today & flew his magic drone & took some incredible footage & stills. 

Gonna be a great help to me!


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Massive thanks to JohnBoy who came to my place today & flew his magic drone & took some incredible footage & stills.
> 
> Gonna be a great help to me!


You're very welcome TM. It was a pleasure and great to meet up with you both again and to see just what a lucky escape you had. There cannot be anything more frightening than being caught up in such a blaze and you were very lucky to make it out with your lives intact. But then, to have the painful wait of several days to see if you had a home to go back to, delayed the suffering even longer. Clearly your strength of character and pragmatic approach will see you both through the coming months as your village rebuilds itself.

Folks, you cannot imagine the scene we faced approaching TM's village today. Utter destruction doesn't begin to describe it. The way that the blaze indiscriminately roared through this tiny community, picking off some homes, whilst leaving others barely touched, is totally unexplainable.

I have TM's permission to post a photograph of his home and will try to arrange that tomorrow if forum rules permit.


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## travelling-man

I'll add that anyone affected by this fire or similar events in the future that they try to get similar pics & videos of their property because having taken a good look at the pics of my place, I've spotted roof damage that I wouldn't have otherwise spotted so I can now have the builder look at it as part of the insurance claim.

It might turn out to be nothing but equally, it might be considerable so better to know now than later.


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## travelling-man

Finally met up with Palawan & his wife......... and am glad to say that although Portugal gave them a 'warm welcome' they came out of it pretty well.


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## JohnBoy

Just a couple of the photos of TM's home showing what a lucky escape he had...

https://goo.gl/photos/GE3eU1Rr9XjZKpc96


This one shows the damage to the garage roof. Unbelievably, TM's beloved classic car remained untouched inside, apart from a covering of ash.

https://goo.gl/photos/uQ4BesK7UXvQc7238


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## smudges

Bloody Hell, TM!!!


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## travelling-man

Thanks JohnBoy....... you're a diamond! 

I can honestly say I reckon we got out with less than a handful of seconds to spare & were incredibly lucky in every way imaginable but I'd gladly sacrifice all of it if it'd have saved just one life in the village or nearby area. 

I can't get the old Jeep out of the garage because both doors are welded shut by the heat but she looks just fine & I think once given a wash & brush up, she'll be just tickety boo. 

Most of the material damage is to roof, windows & blinds & I'm glad to say we chose the expensive options when doing the renovation....... They might all be shagged now but they did their job & saved the rest of the house & contents so well worth the money. - I think the other factor is the Bombeiros must have either hosed or water bombed the house as well & I'll be eternally grateful to them for that....... Every single one of them is a hero in my book! 

Scariest of all is the thought that the fire arrived at 2000 hours......... if it'd come just a few hours later, the whole village would have been asleep & probably most would have died right there.


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Scariest of all is the thought that the fire arrived at 2000 hours......... if it'd come just a few hours later, the whole village would have been asleep & probably most would have died right there.


A sobering thought TM.


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## travelling-man

We've just been to a memorial service in our village chapel in Nodeirinho where they had a memorial service for all who died & sadly, the village did indeed lose more than a third of it's full time population.

Relatives must have come from far & wide because the place was absolutely packed tight.


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## siobhanwf

*A month ago today*

from TM -

A month ago today the firestorm swept through my lovely village of Nodeirinho. The entire area for miles around is stripped bare, blackened & everything still smells of smoke. 

The fire took many lives & homes in the area but the Portuguese people have been truly magnificent in their support, kindness & generosity & I'll never forget them.


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## travelling-man

Comms are still short but we're slowly putting it back together & even our insurance company have been fabulously supportive so we're still better off than many in the village....

Other good news is those who have lost homes have been told everything will be rebuilt at no cost (presumably EU funds) & rebuilding has already started in my village.

To give you an idea of how hot this fire must have burned.......... a month after the fire, I've just found an odd pile of ash within 5 metres of the house which upon further investigation turned out to be an incinerated deer....... only identified by one hoof & half a dozen hairs. Everything else was gone.


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## JohnBoy

*Censorship*

During the terrible events a month ago, the Protecção Civil were accused of failing to communicate effectively with the emergency services. They claimed they knew best and did not need the help or advice of other bodies, including the bombeiros with their decades of experience fighting these cursed fires.

Surprise, surprise! Yesterday, the government put in place a ban on any member of the fire service from communicating with the media. In future, all announcements will only be made by the Protecção Civil. It seems the truth hurts and will not be heard.


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## travelling-man

Sky News were VERY critical about the Bombeiros & GNR not closing the N236-1 where at least 47 died due mostly to falling/burning trees but to me that's ridiculous. 

That road is the only escape route for the umpteen villages that lie along it & to close the road would be to condemn everyone in those villages to certain death. 

The reason so many died was because the firebreak law of no trees within 10 metres of any roadside verge was studiously ignored by everyone which to me is nothing short of corporate manslaughter.


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## travelling-man

Well I'm happy to say the Phoenix Flock has now risen from the ashes. 

We started last week by buying 2 Muscovy ducklings & today I bought 2 geese & a gander & although SWMBO doesn't know it yet, a trip to the Castelo Branco area for a few Muscovys is also in the pipeline. 

The field feels soooo much better now it has life in it again!


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Well I'm happy to say the Phoenix Flock has now risen from the ashes.
> 
> We started last week by buying 2 Muscovy ducklings & today I bought 2 geese & a gander & although SWMBO doesn't know it yet, a trip to the Castelo Branco area for a few Muscovys is also in the pipeline.
> 
> The field feels soooo much better now it has life in it again!


That's great news TM. Meanwhile, I'll keep a look out around here for the Indian Runners for you. Is there any chance that you could get any eggs or hatchlings from those that you let go recently?


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## travelling-man

JohnBoy said:


> That's great news TM. Meanwhile, I'll keep a look out around here for the Indian Runners for you. Is there any chance that you could get any eggs or hatchlings from those that you let go recently?


I've ot various options open to me but the egg options might have to wait until next spring now but that'll give me more time to get properly organised anyway. 

I have had a kind offer of some of the runners I let go last year but if I do that, I'll still have to bring in a new bloodline if possible which brings me back to next year again....... but that wouldn't be a problem.


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> I've ot various options open to me but the egg options might have to wait until next spring now but that'll give me more time to get properly organised anyway.
> 
> I have had a kind offer of some of the runners I let go last year but if I do that, I'll still have to bring in a new bloodline if possible which brings me back to next year again....... but that wouldn't be a problem.


I understand. If I hear of any available, I'll let you know.


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## JohnBoy

There seems to be some controversy in the media at the moment regarding the death toll of the PG fire. Originally stated to be 64, there are now claims from the locals that the toll is higher, but the government are refusing to acknowledge that. A local business woman says that she has a list of 74 names. Amongst the additional ten are a lady who, running from the flames, was knocked down and killed by a car. Then there is a gentleman who was admitted to hospital with smoke inhalation and died a month later from his injuries. The government are saying that neither of these cases can be attributed to the fire, so cannot be included in the list of those who perished.

How on earth can they say that and why would they? Is it to make the terrible tragedy seem less than it was? Is it some measure to avoid compensation? I am totally baffled by this attitude.

Travelling-Man - Have you picked up any news locally? Any idea what this is all about?


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## Maggy Crawford

My theory is it is to keep the numbers as low as possible. It's the same with road deaths. Anyone who dies at the scene is counted but anyone who dies later in hospital as a result of a traffic accident is not counted. Even so, Portugal used to have and maybe still does still has the highest death rate on the roads in Western Europe. If not, second.


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## travelling-man

I'm told that by keeping the official death toll below (I think) 65 the PT Government can access more funds for those that have lost homes etc but I don't know the whole story I'm afraid......... However, I've said from the day the death toll was announced that it was wrong. If I add up the deaths within just 5 km of my home they exceed the official figures by more than 10 & my own guess is that the real figure is well over one hundred & possibly more.

Whilst I'm simply staggered by the kindness, support & generosity of the Portuguese & other people that have been so very good to this area & it's victims I'm absolutely furious that so little seems to be being done about addressing the situation of why these awful fires happened & are continuing to happen. 

A blind man on a galloping horse can see that the firebreak laws have been ignored throughout the country & in my case, the owners of the commercial woodland behind my house were told to clear it to the legal 100 metre gap more than 3 years ago & they ignored it.... & nothing was done to enforce the order. 

Had that one block behind my house been cleared as it should have been the fire could not have entered the village at all & lives & homes would have been saved. 

To me, this is nothing short of corporate manslaughter & we haven't heard a peep out of anyone in authority about the matter. 

In the last few days I've seen 5 or 6 inch steel I beams bent like bananas & thick wine glasses & plates melted in the fire which would suggest temperatures reached something in the region of 1000C........ How TF can this situation be seemingly ignored by the authorities?


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## baldilocks

As I said before, I think you should be making a fuss - how about the national press, I'm sure that PT has newspapers that love a good scandal in which they can sh*t stir.


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## JohnBoy

To be honest Baldilocks, in my opinion the media here are spineless. So much wrong doing and so much corruption that they never really get their teeth into. They seem to prefer to spend countless pages on the latest football results.

It must be so frustrating for TM in his situation and it is difficult to know how best to wake people up to this situation, Like in Spain, the locals are so laid back as to be horizontal and never seem to put up a fight on any front. Just my two cents worth.


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## travelling-man

I can't really start doing anything properly until I get my own internet connection back but given time, I do intend to make life a misery for a significant number of people in every possible way & I'm hard nosed enough not to care who I upset. 

As the old saying goes: 'Revenge is a dish best served cold' & I'm a patient man when I need to be.


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## baldilocks

travelling-man said:


> I can't really start doing anything properly until I get my own internet connection back but given time, I do intend to make life a misery for a significant number of people in every possible way & I'm hard nosed enough not to care who I upset.
> 
> As the old saying goes: 'Revenge is a dish best served cold' & I'm a patient man when I need to be.


With JB's drone footage, there should be enough evidence to create a large enough stink that would overcome a lot of lassitude.


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## travelling-man

JB's drone footage will be VERY useful indeed! 

I'm also surprised incidentally that the insurance companies aren't suing the owners of illegally planted woodland around the damaged/insured houses. 

I appreciate a lot of houses were not insured but would think a significant number were.


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## travelling-man

And in the meantime can I ask you kind folks to sign this please?

Petição pela revogação da liberalização do eucalipto : Petição Pública


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## Maggy Crawford

Done.


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## baldilocks

Done


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## JohnBoy

Done.

TM - If you need any more drone footage, I will be happy to come over. The bird is on the bench at the moment while I fix that video down link problem. Once the parts arrive and it is have it fixed, I'm happy to come anytime.


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## baldilocks

JohnBoy said:


> Done.
> 
> TM - If you need any more drone footage, I will be happy to come over. The bird is on the bench at the moment while I fix that video down link problem. Once the parts arrive and it is have it fixed, I'm happy to come anytime.


How much detail could you get in those overgrown fire breaks, etc as evidence on how the problem was augmented by a failure to keep them clear of vegetation, especially of the dead and dry sort? I know that the material will have been pretty well burnt but an idea of the quantity would probably be a help to identifying how bad the problem had become.


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## travelling-man

You can see how & where the hottest parts of the fire burned simply by walking the forest behind my house at the moment & if you walk a little further you can see how that path caused it to enter the village & take so many lives & homes & it's also very easy to see that a firebreak of even 100 metres from the village & 10 metres from the road would have stopped the fire dead in it's tracks but every day that goes by, that evidence becomes less obvious as the damn eucalyptus regenerates & the ferns regrow. 

With regard to the suspiciously reduced death toll, this might be of interest: https://sol.sapo.pt/artigo/573340/-...imas-mortais-dos-inc-ndios-de-pedrogao-grande


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## JohnBoy

Thanks TM. A very interesting read and with this government no surprise at all. Shamefull, springs to mind.


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## Maggy Crawford

Last night when we smelled smoke again I googled "fogos em portugal" and the first item is a website https://fogos.pt/ which gives a map and current status of all fires. You can zoom in and it appears to be updated by the minute.


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## baldilocks

Maggy Crawford said:


> Last night when we smelled smoke again I googled "fogos em portugal" and the first item is a website https://fogos.pt/ which gives a map and current status of all fires. You can zoom in and it appears to be updated by the minute.


Is there any indication that these are being started deliberately?


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## travelling-man

baldilocks said:


> Is there any indication that these are being started deliberately?


The short answer is yes...... some media are reporting an occasional arrest however fires, especially eucalyptus fires can jump surprisingly long distances but the truth is it really doesn't matter how they start. 

Fire is a part of nature & can't be prevented so whether it's arson or natural phenomena doesn't particularly matter. 

What's more important is that the country must learn to manage it's fires & that means properly managed firebreaks at all times so that if, or rather when a fire does occur it will only burn to the firebreak & then stop before it harms people or property.

Current law (Decreto-Lei n.º 17/2009, de 14 de Janeiro) states a firebreak of 50 metres of lone buildings, 100 metres of villages etc & 10 metres of roadside verges & on most occasions that would be sufficient however, it'd obviously be better if they were extended in the future.

Properly managed land also means the owners of commercial woodland must be forced to perform controlled burns in the areas they do have that commercial woodland so there's no massive build up of flammable materials over a period of years. 

I can almost hear them squawking about the cost of those things now but better they lose some of their profits than people lose their lives & properties etc.


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## JohnBoy

Maggy Crawford said:


> Last night when we smelled smoke again I googled "fogos em portugal" and the first item is a website https://fogos.pt/ which gives a map and current status of all fires. You can zoom in and it appears to be updated by the minute.


Thanks for the link Maggy. That's much easier than accessing via the old route and they even have an app for the phone. We were returning from our afternoon walk yesterday and saw the fire at Penacova. It is 17 kms away as the smoke blows, yet we could see great clouds of smoke rising from it. Once it got dark, there seemed to be two main areas burning and the area seemed immense. It was quite a chilling sight. I have a couple of photos linked here:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak3-OZjvm0VpslwzgxjntAidVQ4l

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak3-OZjvm0Vpsl1CDNeMfbjAxPNx

Sorry for the quality, but these were taken at a distance of 17 kms on a pretty basic Sony camera. It does have a pretty good zoom though!


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## travelling-man

JB

If it even starts to look like it's getting close you guys & any pets etc are very welcome to come & use our guest apartment for as long as necessary if you want. 

17 km sounds like a long way but it can travel that far VERY quickly indeed as I know from my own experience.


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## JohnBoy

baldilocks said:


> Is there any indication that these are being started deliberately?


As TM says, the short answer is yes. The problem is that we are rarely privy to the details of the how, why or who. A week ago it was reported that a person had been caught in relation to a series of fires in the Viseu area. When asked why, the answer was that he liked to watch the flames. 

In the case of TM's fire in PG, the local councils and government were saying it was a lightning strike. A fire chief said that was impossible as the lightning did not strike until two hours after the fire started. It only took me a couple of minutes to find evidence to back that These are the same councils and government that are now refusing to acknowledge more than 64 dead despite evidence to the contrary, and the same government that have now issued a gagging order on the fire service preventing them from talking to journalists. You can draw your own conclusions. 

We were speaking to one of our local bombeiros at the Ceira fire on Sunday about this subject. He said that even on June 18th, the day after the PG fire started, personnel involved were already aware there were more than 100 dead. This at a time when the media were reporting 59. Regarding the Ceira fire, he said it was too early to determine the cause but, with four fires starting at the same time in that area, it has to be considered as highly suspicious.


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> JB
> 
> If it even starts to look like it's getting close you guys & any pets etc are very welcome to come & use our guest apartment for as long as necessary if you want.
> 
> 17 km sounds like a long way but it can travel that far VERY quickly indeed as I know from my own experience.


That is very generous of you TM, especially in your current situation and we do appreciate it. Thankfully, for us at least, we have the city of Coimbra and the Mondego River blocking the way. Our friends in Ceira though, whose home we were protecting on Sunday, are only 11 kms across open country, so we are keeping a very close eye on the situation. The good news is that in the past hour they have added 16 personnel, 1 appliance and 3 aircraft. Looking across the valley, the smoke does not seem quite so bad, so perhaps they are getting on top of it. I certainly hope so.


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## JohnBoy

*Breaking news*



baldilocks said:


> Is there any indication that these are being started deliberately?


According to the three p.m. news on SIC, a fireman has been arrested for starting a fire. He stated he felt left out with nothing to do and wanted to get in on the action. 

Where's the Emoji for 'speechless'?


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## travelling-man

JohnBoy said:


> That is very generous of you TM, especially in your current situation and we do appreciate it. Thankfully, for us at least, we have the city of Coimbra and the Mondego River blocking the way. Our friends in Ceira though, whose home we were protecting on Sunday, are only 11 kms across open country, so we are keeping a very close eye on the situation. The good news is that in the past hour they have added 16 personnel, 1 appliance and 3 aircraft. Looking across the valley, the smoke does not seem quite so bad, so perhaps they are getting on top of it. I certainly hope so.


Happy to accommodate anyone that needs it but obviously you guys come at the top of the list!


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## Maggy Crawford

Here is a letter I have sent by email today to Portugal News.

"We were surrounded by fire on the night of June 17 and we and our property survived without damage thanks to our heroes, the Bombeiros. We are aware that mistakes were made in handling the situation but it covered a huge area in a very short space of time, partly due to a raging wind caused by nature and by the firestorm.

In the aftermath, the fortitude, resilience, generosity and dignity of the local people is in marked contrast to the disgraceful, bully boy tactics of the rent-a-mob who hijacked the Grenfell Tower disaster for their own nefarious anti-government ends.

I know where I prefer to live."


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## JohnBoy

baldilocks said:


> Is there any indication that these are being started deliberately?


I've been playing with the new toy that Maggy Crawford introduced us to, fogos.pt.

In the 12 hours of darkness between sunset last night and sunrise this morning, there were 53 new fires reported. No lightning and no sun blazing down through discarded glass, so what other natural causes could there be I wonder?


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## baldilocks

JohnBoy said:


> I've been playing with the new toy that Maggy Crawford introduced us to, fogos.pt.
> 
> In the 12 hours of darkness between sunset last night and sunrise this morning, there were 53 new fires reported. No lightning and no sun blazing down through discarded glass, so what other natural causes could there be I wonder?


slow smouldering *** ends? Fireworks? (we have stopped them here, especially the rockets [aerial torpedoes]) Wild campers? was it windy enough to blow trees against HT power lines? there aren't any Ember Days about now are there? and it is only 10 hours between sunset and sunrise.


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## JohnBoy

baldilocks said:


> slow smouldering *** ends? Fireworks? (we have stopped them here, especially the rockets [aerial torpedoes]) Wild campers? was it windy enough to blow trees against HT power lines? there aren't any Ember Days about now are there? and it is only 10 hours between sunset and sunrise.


My bad re the number of hours Baldilocks. I started to write the post in a different way. I was going to give figures between 9 - 21 and 21 - 9 but realised that they were not available on the app. The post did not get amended fully. 

A breakdown of the figures by hour:
21 - 22: 7
22 - 23: 10
23 - 00: 6
00 - 01: 8
01 - 02: 5
02 - 03: 6
03 - 04: 3
04 - 05: 2
05 - 06: 3
06 - 07: 3

OK. So not evidence of arson but a stretch of the imagination to put all down to natural causes.


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## JohnBoy

*OMG! Here we go again*

https://goo.gl/6wwPB1

This taken from 6.8 kms.

This has just started up and is less than 1 km from the home that we were protecting 6 days ago. As things stand, our friends will be safe from this one but it is so close, and I mean metres, from a village. They are hitting it hard with 219 personnel, 56 vehicles and 10 aircraft at the moment and it seems to be doing the job. Those poor, poor people; villagers and bombeiros. Is there to be no let up for them?


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## travelling-man

The Bombeiros are truly phenomenal....... Two of my Portuguese friends have a 19 year old daughter who is a really petite little thing of a girl & she's absolutely in the thick of it day after day after day. 

When I think about what I was doing at that age, I'm filled with admiration for the young lady!


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## travelling-man

A few random pics of the house & surrounds;

The garage doors are welded shut!


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## travelling-man

The garage roof burned out but the car & gas bottles survived.


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## siobhanwf

travelling-man said:


> The Bombeiros are truly phenomenal....... Two of my Portuguese friends have a 19 year old daughter who is a really petite little thing of a girl & she's absolutely in the thick of it day after day after day.
> 
> When I think about what I was doing at that age, I'm filled with admiration for the young lady!


The photo that most sticks in my mind is of the young female firefighter breast feeding her baby during a well earned break. 
I can't find that photo now but here is another young girl taking a break drooped to exhaustion


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## baldilocks

siobhanwf said:


> The photo that most sticks in my mind is of the young female firefighter breast feeding her baby during a well earned break.
> I can't find that photo now but here is another young girl taking a break drooped to exhaustion


There is this possibility:
Firefighter proud after dividing Facebook with picture of her breastfeeding | Daily Mail Online

or
https://www.google.es/search?q=fema...Bs7c-Z8-Rqmzhxo4PH8r6E=#imgrc=-l9tpoOHDZkY5M:

or
https://www.google.es/search?q=fema...nxtuHJRHRTNA3aCMhzUmPM=#imgrc=ojRsjWyHKbuKhM:

Although they are not necessarily of female firefighters taking break from fighting a fire to breast feed their babies


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## travelling-man

I heard some really great news right from the horse's mouth today. 

Figueiro Dos Vinhos Camara have told people who lost homes (and presumably also homes that were damaged) that all houses will be rebuilt & reffurnished etc at Government (probably means EU) expense. 

Let's hope that applies nationwide & what a fantastic country we live in hey?


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## JohnBoy

Great news indeed TM. 

There was an item on the news on Saturday about a village that have taken it upon themselves to clear the surrounding area of debris, thus enforcing the firebreaks that you have so well documented. It may be the same village that you mentioned some time ago; I'm not sure. We're trying to find the news report again to establish where it was. Perhaps the stark reality of the danger is beginning to sink in.


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## travelling-man

JB

Aguda is the one I mentioned & I heard yesterday that the Camara were going to have the Floresta guys cut the trees behind my house but that in itself won't make much difference because the trees are mostly burned anyway & the boles are already regenerating...... if they want to make a real difference (and I'm sure they do) they'll need to get a digger in to grub out the roots as well because if they don't the situation in 5 years time will be even worse than it was just before the fire.


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## Captainbeaky

I've been away from the forum for a while - my dad was taken seriously ill and then passed away a month ago, so I'm only now getting back into the swing of things.

Ruddy hell this fire was bad - I did see it on the news, but I wasn't really paying attention too much at the time ( I admittedly had a lot on my plate!)

I've become friends with a few Bombeiros here in Madeira - I'm renting my lovely new workshops from one of the fully retained ( employed) Bombeiros - he is such a nice, generous man - they are really nice people.

As for the local generosity, I remember breaking down on my motorbike ( 2 miles from getting it out of the container, I suffered "Blocquado de Carburadore" - my first technical phrase in Portuguese ). Loads of people stopped to help. The generosity took me by surprise - initially I was suspicious- but it really is genuine, happens all the time, and you can't help but return it.

It's very sobering to think that TM only just made it out - "there but for the grace..."

Keep safe all...

M.


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## travelling-man

Just to give you an update on how things are going here........ We've had a builder in all week to repair everything except the windows & he's done a fabulous job at a more than fair price so now all we need to fix is the windows because the outer lanes on every window on 3 sides of the house were shattered by the heat which the media are suggesting was in the region of 1000C. 

The problem with that was all the companies that came to quote all either failed to come back to us with an estimate or wanted to replace the entire window units with aluminium only & we wanted to stick with what we had which was some aluminium & some PVC.

Then last week I managed to find a guy based in Leiria who rocked up on time, spoke English (which is a help) & told us he could reglaze all the units in both aluminium & PVC AND repair the aluminium blinds instead of replacing them....... it was only the plastic mounts that had melted & the aluminium itself seems to be fine. 

So hopefully we'll be more or less back to normal within 2 or possibly 3 weeks. 

Oh & if anyone in the Figueiro Dos Vinhos (ish) area needs a recommendation for a good builder or window man just let me know.


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Just to give you an update on how things are going here........ We've had a builder in all week to repair everything except the windows & he's done a fabulous job at a more than fair price so now all we need to fix is the windows because the outer lanes on every window on 3 sides of the house were shattered by the heat which the media are suggesting was in the region of 1000C.
> 
> The problem with that was all the companies that came to quote all either failed to come back to us with an estimate or wanted to replace the entire window units with aluminium only & we wanted to stick with what we had which was some aluminium & some PVC.
> 
> Then last week I managed to find a guy based in Leiria who rocked up on time, spoke English (which is a help) & told us he could reglaze all the units in both aluminium & PVC AND repair the aluminium blinds instead of replacing them....... it was only the plastic mounts that had melted & the aluminium itself seems to be fine.
> 
> So hopefully we'll be more or less back to normal within 2 or possibly 3 weeks.
> 
> Oh & if anyone in the Figueiro Dos Vinhos (ish) area needs a recommendation for a good builder or window man just let me know.


Nearly there TM. Hold on in there!


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## travelling-man

Oh........ forgot to add the garage doors to the 'to do' list...... They're welded shut by the heat & have to be cut free & replaced & once that's done I'll be able to see if the classic Jeep starts OK & get it out for a short test drive. 

It'll have to be a short test drive because I think the head gasket is playing up. lol!


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> Oh........ forgot to add the garage doors to the 'to do' list...... They're welded shut by the heat & have to be cut free & replaced & once that's done I'll be able to see if the classic Jeep starts OK & get it out for a short test drive.
> 
> It'll have to be a short test drive because I think the head gasket is playing up. lol!


In your situation TM, I think that it would have been me that blew a gasket. You are staying so cool and have managed to retain a sense of humour through it all. You'll soon be out the other side and bombing around the countryside again.


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## Captainbeaky

If you were in Madeira, I'd be offering to look at the head gasket for free!


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## baldilocks

JohnBoy said:


> In your situation TM, I think that it would have been me that blew a gasket. You are staying so cool and have managed to retain a sense of humour through it all. You'll soon be out the other side *and bombing around the countryside again*.


Hope you don't mean *"water bombing"*


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## travelling-man

Captainbeaky said:


> If you were in Madeira, I'd be offering to look at the head gasket for free!


Now that would be REALLY useful because finding a mechanic with experience of big V8 engines in this neck of the woods is next to impossible!


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## Maggy Crawford

Glad to see that Portugal News has printed my letter this week. Watch this space for the feedback/flak!!


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## JohnBoy

Two items from the news. Last Saturday there were 268 fires reported. A quick check shows that most were in Central PT with the majority in the Coimbra region.

It was announced a short while ago that 61 arrests have been made in relation to arson incidents. One was a woman caught for the second time, which begs the question why was she free after the first offence? No reason was given for her offending, but neighbours said she is not right in the head. Let's hope she is finally getting the treatment she clearly needs.


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## baldilocks

JohnBoy said:


> Two items from the news. Last Saturday there were 268 fires reported. A quick check shows that most were in Central PT with the majority in the Coimbra region.
> 
> It was announced a short while ago that 61 arrests have been made in relation to arson incidents. One was a woman caught for the second time, which begs the question why was she free after the first offence? No reason was given for her offending, but neighbours said she is not right in the head.* Let's hope she is finally getting the treatment she clearly needs*.


Would it be in bad taste to suggest that she gets burned at the stake?


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## Weebobsgrampa

baldilocks said:


> Would it be in bad taste to suggest that she gets burned at the stake?


it would only be bad taste to say make sure you do it in a suitable clear area as you dont want to start any new fires


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## JohnBoy

baldilocks said:


> Would it be in bad taste to suggest that she gets burned at the stake?


Some villagers have already put one offender in hospital, so why not? Why tie up valuable resources? Can we make sure that the stake is made from eucalyptus (that's another one gone) and that the operation is carried out within the legal guidelines regarding distance from property, roadway, etc. as notified to us by TM.

Edited to say, you beat me to it Weebobsgrampa!


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## travelling-man

baldilocks said:


> Would it be in bad taste to suggest that she gets burned at the stake?


I think a suspended sentence would be appropriate......... As in suspended by the neck until dead. 

The added bonus of that is no fires to worry about.


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## siobhanwf

If it wasn`t so tragic the thoughts on punishment would be funny


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## Weebobsgrampa

travelling-man said:


> I think a suspended sentence would be appropriate......... As in suspended by the neck until dead.
> 
> The added bonus of that is no fires to worry about.


as always the full thinking process, well done TM


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## travelling-man

So now the garage doors that were welded shut in the fire have been cut loose, I was finally able to uncage Jessica the Jeep & give her a bit of a wash & polish. 

Bearing in mind she survived a firestorm with estimated temperatures of uo to 1000C she's scrubbed up pretty damn well hey?


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## JohnBoy

travelling-man said:


> So now the garage doors that were welded shut in the fire have been cut loose, I was finally able to uncage Jessica the Jeep & give her a bit of a wash & polish.
> 
> Bearing in mind she survived a firestorm with estimated temperatures of uo to 1000C she's scrubbed up pretty damn well hey?


Beautiful TM. Bet you can't wait to have her back to full health and on the road again.


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## travelling-man

I reckon she'll manage a run to the filling station tomorrow & then I think she'll go into intensive care for a head gasket change as soon as the gasket kit arrives.


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## Captainbeaky

Looking good there!

To be honest, there's nothing difficult or complex about these big old V8's.

They are big, yes, but they are simple - not complicated at all - it's just that there's a lot of stuff under that bonnet ( 2 cylinder heads, 2 exhaust manifolds etc etc,.)
On the bright side, the jeep will have a good amount of space under the hood.

A cylinder head job should be fairly easy for any decent mechanic.
And much simpler than many cars out there.

Not like a Bentley 6litre W12 twin turbo for example - alternator change requires dropping the engine - €5k in labour for a dealer! Or a Smart Roadster that requires the back half of the car to be removed to change the lower spark plugs! ( extra 2 hours labour)


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## travelling-man

Captainbeaky said:


> Looking good there!
> 
> To be honest, there's nothing difficult or complex about these big old V8's.
> 
> They are big, yes, but they are simple - not complicated at all - it's just that there's a lot of stuff under that bonnet ( 2 cylinder heads, 2 exhaust manifolds etc etc,.)
> On the bright side, the jeep will have a good amount of space under the hood.
> 
> A cylinder head job should be fairly easy for any decent mechanic.
> And much simpler than many cars out there.
> 
> Not like a Bentley 6litre W12 twin turbo for example - alternator change requires dropping the engine - €5k in labour for a dealer! Or a Smart Roadster that requires the back half of the car to be removed to change the lower spark plugs! ( extra 2 hours labour)


P'raps I need to offer you a couple of weeks accommodation in our guest apartment in exchange for fixing the gasket leak? 

Gotta say one of the things I love about the old Jeep is the simplicity of build & lack of technology.


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## JohnBoy

In the light of all the recent fires, we have heard that the government are planning to seize control of abandoned land. I'm searching for the original article in the media and will post back here if I can find it.

Whilst on the subject, as TM as rightly pointed out, it is illegal to plant trees within 100 mts of a property. But where is the law prohibiting the building of a property within 100 mts of an established forested area? We have noticed a couple of examples of this locally recently. Surely the proximity of wooded areas should be taken into account when considering planning permission.


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## JohnBoy

The Guardian newspaper have made a short (10 min) documentary about the Pedrógão fire which features Nodheirinho.


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## travelling-man

It's a good documentary but I think the Priest is wrong when he says the answer is to have more & better fire fighting equipment because most people either don't know how to use it and/or are too old/incapable of using it to anything like best effect. 

To me, the answer is to make the landowners of commercial woodland observe & maintain the legal firebreak laws so the fires can't enter the villages at all.


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