# French Retirement Scheme/Plans FBARs



## tombr (Oct 12, 2018)

Hi all, 

Sorry if this question has been asked on here before but i haven't been able to find info on this online.

I am a US person and salaried employee of a law firm in France. As a result, i contribute to the regime générale des retraites as well as to the complementaire retraite and the supplementaire retraite with Kerialis (ex CREPA). My understanding of how the supplementaire retraite works is that i have an individual account and that i basically accumulate points which reflect the yearly euro distributions i would be entitled to receive upon retirement. The account doesn't seem to have a number nor a present value/maximum balance.

Does this need to be reported on the FBAR? How do you deal with French pension/retirement schemes that are not savings accounts/assurance vie for FBAR purposes ?

Thanks a lot to anyone who can quickly provide guidance (considering the upcoming deadline for the FBAR).


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

For FBAR purposes, the standard mandatory retirement systems (base and "complementaire") do NOT need to be reported. These are simply the governmental plans (like US Social Security) and are not considered "foreign assets."

And actually, the deadline for the FBARs is now April 15th, just like for the tax returns. However they have announced that they aren't going to bother about anything if you wind up reporting by the time of the latest "automatic" extension date. (And in fact, they don't bother with late filing penalties even if you file months or years later.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## tombr (Oct 12, 2018)

Thanks a lot Bev - I always read your informed comments on here and find them super helpful.

I agree for the regime de base and the complementaire but am still slightly concerned about the supplémentaire who i understand is managed by this kerialis entity (Kerialis is an Institution de Prevoyance governed by the French social security code).

Although i know that they might not care at all, I am concerned that if i decide to expatriate at some point and have to list those retirement plans/schemes as deferred compensation items on my 8854 - that I would be basically acknowledging an FBAR violation...

Any thoughts with this additional information?
Thanks a lot !


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

As far as I know, a prévoyance is also considered part of the standard "cotisations." Given that your account is counted up in points rather than in a monetary amount (plus - do they report earnings to you each year?), I suspect there is no need to report that.

Besides, they still don't seem to actually compare your FBAR reporting against your tax filings unless there is some "discrepancy" in your tax returns. Another factor might be to consider whether Kerialis has ever asked you for a W9. If they aren't required to report your account and balances to the Treasury Dept. (under FATCA), then they aren't considered a "financial institution" for FATCA reporting purposes, and the IRS would have nothing to compare against your FBARs.

You could always see what AARO says about this. (AARO = Association of Americans Resident Overseas) They do an annual tax seminar for their members and it could be worthwhile to join for a while if only to have access to their information on US taxes. https://aaro.org/
Cheers,
Bev


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