# Dossier Facile and renting questions



## EugeneMcA

Hi,

I've been lurking here for quite and have got loads of very useful information, thanks. 

I've read the recent posts on "Apartment search in Montpellier" and "Assurance Loyers Impayés == the roadblock to renting as new expats!?!" with interest and concern.

We are from Ireland, are moving to France (between Toulon and Montpellier) in the new year and are looking to rent for up to a year while we look for somewhere to buy. As we are retiring early and I will be "inactiv" and my pension won't kick in for a few years and our joint income is too low to allow us to rent the type of house we'd like, so we will be relying on a "Caution Bancaire" to guarantee our rent. We have very substantial savings and my pension is a state backed defined benefit from age 60.

To further complicate matters we have a very nervous cat who we don't want to move around a lot. 

It seems that furnished rentals (1 year lease) are easier to come by than unfurnished, in your experience does these allow cats. We are not keen to go down the winter gite option as we'd like the security of the 1 year lease and not have to leave come June. I've done a lot of looking on Le Bon Coin, Bien Ici etc.

I've questions about the Dossier Facile, when I go to compose my dossier facile, I'm asked for 

Identity card - _easy_
Proof of address - _My Dublin address?_
Proof of professional situation - _Currently employed but soon not to be_
Tax notice - _Irish?_
Proof of resources - _Last 3 paycheques? "Caution Bancaire"?_
Has anyone who's completed this got any advice?

Also I've seen good reviews here for Renestance and Lulu Laporte given my somewhat complex circumstances should I use this type of service.

How long does it take to rent a place?

Thanks in advance.

Eugene


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## papaia

Our experience, so far (inline comments)



EugeneMcA said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been lurking here for quite and have got loads of very useful information, thanks.
> 
> I've read the recent posts on "Apartment search in Montpellier" and "Assurance Loyers Impayés == the roadblock to renting as new expats!?!" with interest and concern.
> 
> We are from Ireland, are moving to France (between Toulon and Montpellier) in the new year and are looking to rent for up to a year while we look for somewhere to buy. As we are retiring early and I will be "inactiv" and my pension won't kick in for a few years and our joint income is too low to allow us to rent the type of house we'd like, so we will be relying on a "Caution Bancaire" to guarantee our rent. We have very substantial savings and my pension is a state backed defined benefit from age 60.


Approx our case



> It seems that furnished rentals (1 year lease) are easier to come by than unfurnished, in your experience does these allow cats. We are not keen to go down the winter gite option as we'd like the security of the 1 year lease and not have to leave come June. I've done a lot of looking on Le Bon Coin, Bien Ici etc.


Used VRBO (the AirBnB of longer duration options, at least apparent to us => six months, but could have gotten the rent for one year. We just committed to ourselves to resolve things in six months, and, if not possible, I am sure the owner would happily extend our stay, probably even without running it again through VRBO ;-)). Owner has cats, so an additional cat should not have made a difference. You may just have to to communicate with the owner(s), if you find a long duration option you like.



> I've questions about the Dossier Facile, when I go to compose my dossier facile, I'm asked for
> 
> Identity card - _easy_
> Proof of address - _My Dublin address?_


Used the owner of the VRBO property to provide a "contract de location" for the duration of our rent (no mention of VRBO), and an electric bill. These documents were accepted @ CPAM, OFII, bank (when we got our first French account), Garantme (as an alternative guarantor - haven't used that yet), _*and*_ dossierfacile.fr.



> _Proof of professional situation - Currently employed but soon not to be_


No problem - we stated that we were both just retired, and explained how we were planning to leverage our savings, private and governmental pension (US == social security) in a time-distributed fashion, with estimates of monthly "income", enough to be a little over 3 x our max rent (no need to inflate it)



> _Tax notice - Irish?_


Absolutely! I provided last year US one (summary page of federal), and no one complained - neither bank, nor garantme or dossierfacile.fr



> _Proof of resources - Last 3 paycheques? "Caution Bancaire"?_


Neither. Here is where we provided docs on the existing funding, and the explanation on how we are planning to use them, moving forward. Nothing else. We obtained a letter from the bank, that their org would be willing to support a caution bancaire, should we come to them with an actual bail/contract, but we are still searching our longer term rent, so their letter was just to add to the "guarantor" section of dossierfacile, alongside a similar document from garantme (which we also did not yet leverage, pending finding something we like).

HTH


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## EugeneMcA

Papaia,

Thanks for the quick and detailed response. VRBO here I come!

Eugene


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## Nunthewiser

Here's what the dossier facile folks told me (haven't done it yet). :
Hello,
Thank you for your message.

1. You can of course use your address in the US if you want to complete your DossierFacile before arriving in France.
2. If you never paid taxes in France, you can tick the box "je vis en France depuis moins d'un an" in order to obtain an attestation proving that you are not taxable in France yet.

They seem very responsive- ask them!


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## EugeneMcA

Nunthewiser,

Thank you, I'll start the process and see where I get.

Eugene


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## bhamham

I just secured a 3-yr unfurnished rental after two months of trying. I was on the verge of giving up and started looking at houses to buy but finally hit upon a sympathetic agent. He had not seen the 'dossier facile' before and was very impressed that it was sponsored and verified by the French government. Other agents gave me a blank stare when I would present it. I'm not sure of it's history maybe it hasn't been around very long? 

Anyway, after two months of agents/owners mostly ignoring my messages it finally happened


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## BackinFrance

I think it's fairly new. I had never heard of it before it was mentioned by someone on this forum this year.


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## Nunthewiser

bhamham said:


> I just secured a 3-yr unfurnished rental after two months of trying. I was on the verge of giving up and started looking at houses to buy but finally hit upon a sympathetic agent. He had not seen the 'dossier facile' before and was very impressed that it was sponsored and verified by the French government. Other agents gave me a blank stare when I would present it. I'm not sure of it's history maybe it hasn't been around very long?
> 
> Anyway, after two months of agents/owners mostly ignoring my messages it finally happened


Ouch! Two months...Yes the dossier facile was rolled out last summer. Covid permitting, we are going to try apartment/maison hunting in the greater NW (basically, anywhere NW of Tours) and would love to get some sort of a summary "lessons learned" post or PM about your experience. We are retired, plenty of assets, garantme certified, will get a dossier facile going when we get closer...but we're not French and don't have a CDI, Any help to avoid what you went through would be welcome.


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## bhamham

Nunthewiser said:


> Ouch! Two months...Yes the dossier facile was rolled out last summer. Covid permitting, we are going to try apartment/maison hunting in the greater NW (basically, anywhere NW of Tours) and would love to get some sort of a summary "lessons learned" post or PM about your experience. We are retired, plenty of assets, garantme certified, will get a dossier facile going when we get closer...but we're not French and don't have a CDI, Any help to avoid what you went through would be welcome.


For the first few weeks after arriving, I would phone an agency or owner from an ad on LeBonCoin or Ouestfrance-immo. I was searching 100km out from Vannes in Morbihan. My french isn't great but it's not horrible and I can put together that I was interested in a particular house and to request a RDV. Mostly, I left messages that were never returned. The couple of times I caught a live person they said they would call me back but never did and the ad would disappear. I never got a RDV so decided I needed help. I contacted Renestance that's been recommended here. I paid for a couple of hours of their time for a native French speaker to call on my behalf. The plan was that I would send them a link to a notice and they would call setting up the RDV for me to attend. After sending them at least two dozen links I got one RDV in a month, so I went back to me calling.

Everyone kept telling me that it's a super hot market and the supply of rentals is really thin. This was pretty evident in the amount of new rentals that would appear daily. Now there's just a trickle. You need to be quick and contact them the very day the ad is placed - that's how I got the rental I have.

So, after eight weeks I had three RDVs - pretty sad. But, the last one hit. Third time lucky!


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## Bevdeforges

The rental markets here are super tight in many (most?) areas and there are distinct seasons when more places come available. But desirable properties get snapped up super fast by those with a good (and stock standard) dossier.

The season is fairly easy to suss out. People try to lock in a new flat (or other rental) in the early summer (June or July) to be installed and ready for the opening of school around the 1st of September. That's when the bulk of rentals tend to come onto the market. The month of August can be dead for house/apartment hunting, as can the month of December, thanks to the holidays. (The whole of French society sometimes seems to revolve around the school calendar, so take note of the school start and end dates, as well as the school holiday schedule for the region in which you're looking.)

Many landlords look to turn rentals around as quickly as possible. Since the old tenants are expected to clean up the place before moving out (if they want anything of their deposit returned), it's not unheard of to have the old tenants move out the last day of the month, with the new tenants moving in the next day on the first of the next month. If you want to move in mid month, you need to be prepared to take possession of the place on the 1st of the month and pay for the "extra" days.


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## BackinFrance

It's just very complicated because of the dearth of housing in France and, even if you are lucky enough to find somewhere that meets your needs and that you can afford, chances are that there will be a segment of the local population that will have issues with that because of things like the cost of rentals going up well beyond what locals, and even more importantly local workers, can afford.


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## Nunthewiser

bhamham said:


> For the first few weeks after arriving, I would phone an agency or owner from an ad on LeBonCoin or Ouestfrance-immo. I was searching 100km out from Vannes in Morbihan. My french isn't great but it's not horrible and I can put together that I was interested in a particular house and to request a RDV. Mostly, I left messages that were never returned. The couple of times I caught a live person they said they would call me back but never did and the ad would disappear. I never got a RDV so decided I needed help. I contacted Renestance that's been recommended here. I paid for a couple of hours of their time for a native French speaker to call on my behalf. The plan was that I would send them a link to a notice and they would call setting up the RDV for me to attend. After sending them at least two dozen links I got one RDV in a month, so I went back to me calling.
> 
> Everyone kept telling me that it's a super hot market and the supply of rentals is really thin. This was pretty evident in the amount of new rentals that would appear daily. Now there's just a trickle. You need to be quick and contact them the very day the ad is placed - that's how I got the rental I have.
> 
> So, after eight weeks I had three RDVs - pretty sad. But, the last one hit. Third time lucky!


Thanks. This is EXACTLY what I was afraid of. I could be you- exactly. I can probably read a script and not go too far off in French. I want to end up in Vannes, but I'm fine in the Loire and it seems like there may be more possibilities the bigger the circle. I was thinking, like you to buy some phone help , if needed, but sounds like that doesn't really work well (likely due to timing). Happy for you, but depressing...where did you end up exactly?


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## suein56

Nunthewiser said:


> Thanks. This is EXACTLY what I was afraid of. I could be you- exactly. I can probably read a script and not go too far off in French. I want to end up in Vannes, but I'm fine in the Loire and it seems like there may be more possibilities the bigger the circle. I was thinking, like you to buy some phone help , if needed, but sounds like that doesn't really work well (likely due to timing). Happy for you, but depressing...where did you end up exactly?


Vannes has experienced an explosion of growth in the past few years .. a growth well established even before Covid arrived on the scene. It is really a centre for modern technological start-ups. It has easy access to coastal areas which are highly acclaimed ..
So many, many people want to work there, live there or simply move to the area.
No surprise that it's difficult to find anywhere to rent .. or to buy.


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## Nunthewiser

suein56 said:


> Vannes has experienced an explosion of growth in the past few years .. a growth well established even before Covid arrived on the scene. It is really a centre for modern technological start-ups. It has easy access to coastal areas which are highly acclaimed ..
> So many, many people want to work there, live there or simply move to the area.
> No surprise that it's difficult to find anywhere to rent .. or to buy.


It certainly looks that way. I have been trying to glean information from the postings in leboncoin and as bhamham says, the pickings are slim in Brittany. There might appear to be one new listing per day- in reality they probably just stay for hours or never even get listed. Last night I perused Mayenne around Laval and it looked a lot better for tenants. There seemed to be 20 new listings (P-a-p) and prices were in the 5-600 euro range. I wish I knew what some of the softer cities were in this general area. We can be flexible with a rental as we are retired and will have a car. I would probably be just as happy in the Mayenne as Brittany for a year, or even forever, who knows? 
I just don't want to have 2 months of housing frustration on top of the administrative headaches.


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## bhamham

Nunthewiser said:


> Thanks. This is EXACTLY what I was afraid of. I could be you- exactly. I can probably read a script and not go too far off in French. I want to end up in Vannes, but I'm fine in the Loire and it seems like there may be more possibilities the bigger the circle. I was thinking, like you to buy some phone help , if needed, but sounds like that doesn't really work well (likely due to timing). Happy for you, but depressing...where did you end up exactly?


Sent you a PM

If you're not fussed about being near the coast as I was then there are definitely more rentals available in central Brittany. I'm staying in a Chambre d'hote near Josselin and the countryside is gorgeous. The Nantes - Brest canal is lovely. Lots of pretty villages like Malestroit, Roche en Terre, and Josselin.


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## Bevdeforges

Right now is definitely NOT a very good time to be looking for a place to rent. After the turn of the year - or better yet, starting around March through to June or so is the prime season for finding a rental so as to be able to move during the end of the spring or during the summer. But you do need to be on site and ready to decide more or less on the spot when you find a suitable property.


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## Nunthewiser

Bevdeforges said:


> Right now is definitely NOT a very good time to be looking for a place to rent. After the turn of the year - or better yet, starting around March through to June or so is the prime season for finding a rental so as to be able to move during the end of the spring or during the summer. But you do need to be on site and ready to decide more or less on the spot when you find a suitable property.


I understand from the standpoint of the renters, but it would seem to me that properties turn over when people are done with them, for many reasons. Is a landlord going to just keep a property off the market for months so that it can be offered "in season"?


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## Bevdeforges

Nunthewiser said:


> Is a landlord going to just keep a property off the market for months so that it can be offered "in season"?


No, but most people don't choose to move in mid-school year for fear of disrupting the kids and their education. Older folks (retired folks) are generally involved in looking after the grandkids after school or over school holidays and tend not to move house all that much after retirement. And don't forget that in the period from November 1st to April 1st there is the winter "treve" where landlords cannot evict tenants for any reason. If people run into money problems, they'll likely stick it out until April 1st at least.

People do not move around as much as they do in the US. The French have considerably more loyalty to their town or region and tend to stay closer to where they consider "home" over their lifetimes. And, if there are questions about a flat being run down or in bad condition, many French landlords will hold the property off the market rather than pay what it takes to renovate it back to a "decent" status. The French rental market is rather different from what you may be used to in the US.


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## Nunthewiser

I would rather look later, like March or April, but I don't want to be stuck waiting through another unbearable Florida summer, which starts in February....


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## Rosa_F

bhamham said:


> I just secured a 3-yr unfurnished rental after two months of trying. I was on the verge of giving up and started looking at houses to buy but finally hit upon a sympathetic agent. He had not seen the 'dossier facile' before and was very impressed that it was sponsored and verified by the French government. Other agents gave me a blank stare when I would present it. I'm not sure of it's history maybe it hasn't been around very long?
> 
> Anyway, after two months of agents/owners mostly ignoring my messages it finally happened


Hi there, I just read your post and wanted to ask if you can recommend your "sympathetic agent"? I will be looking for a long-term furnished lease and could use the help of someone who has helped others in this way. Many thanks.


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## bhamham

Rosa_F said:


> Hi there, I just read your post and wanted to ask if you can recommend your "sympathetic agent"? I will be looking for a long-term furnished lease and could use the help of someone who has helped others in this way. Many thanks.


Hi, sorry, he doesn't list properties in Montpellier. Only in Nantes - Saint Herblain & Coueron in particular.


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## papaia

Rosa_F said:


> Hi there, I just read your post and wanted to ask if you can recommend your "sympathetic agent"? I will be looking for a long-term furnished lease and could use the help of someone who has helped others in this way. Many thanks.


My $0.02 ("mettre mon grain de sel" - love this expression! ): search for and join an expat local group (British and US expats have fairly decent presence, in various places in France, if English is a language you prefer to use), and seek the assistance of someone in those groups specialized in finding accommodations (usually someone who has been living in France for many years, and making an extra buck, while retired). They would cost almost the same as a French agent, but with the advantage of very personalized assistance, searching on your behalf until finding something, vs what an agent may have access to, within her agency, and ability to also reach into the person-to-person rental opportunities (the non-agency rentals). HTH


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## ileana_4662

papaia said:


> My $0.02 ("mettre mon grain de sel" - love this expression! ): search for and join an expat local group (British and US expats have fairly decent presence, in various places in France, if English is a language you prefer to use), and seek the assistance of someone in those groups specialized in finding accommodations (usually someone who has been living in France for many years, and making an extra buck, while retired). They would cost almost the same as a French agent, but with the advantage of very personalized assistance, searching on your behalf until finding something, vs what an agent may have access to, within her agency, and ability to also reach into the person-to-person rental opportunities (the non-agency rentals). HTH


That sounds like an interesting idea. Thank you. Have you run across anyone like this in your travels that you can recommend, so I can start somewhere with this search?


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## papaia

ileana_4662 said:


> That sounds like an interesting idea. Thank you. Have you run across anyone like this in your travels that you can recommend, so I can start somewhere with this search?


I could DM you the contact info, assuming you are interested in Montpellier, as was the OP.


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