# Realistic Advice



## Ramjet2012

I have been trawling the forums for a few months now. There is so much different advice/information on cost of living. 
We are a family of 4. We don't live an extravagant lifestyle ... Eat out once a month only. 
My husband has now been offered a job of 80k in CC. Can we survive be comfortable on this?
As most of you know this is a huge and expensive move ... At the moment we both have excellent jobs in UK. But we are after a better lifestyle.


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## escapedtonz

First of all, think if you could afford to live in the UK on an equivalent salary of £40k (GBP) less tax etc etc for your whole family, all your bills and rent instead of a mortgage and run a car, eat out once a month as you say.
Maybe give it a try for a month and see what things you can & can't afford.

If you think you can live comfortably on this salary then all should be ok although it is more expensive to live here than UK so if you do any sums I'd add another 15% on what you think your costs will be.
If not you've answered your own question.
All depends on what you want out of life here, what living standards you want and what extras you won't do without - like sky tv or a mobile phone etc.

For your comparisons:-
We are a 2 adult and a 21 month old toddler family earning $110k.
We can comfortably afford $500 a week rent although we pay a lot more for a bigger house and use savings brought over from the UK to cover the rest.
We have a 2010 4x4 car, a 2006 hatchback car plus a 2011 motorbike.
I'm a member of a golf club and the Mrs a member of a gym which I suppose are our vices but both are a lot cheaper than the UK and also car/bike insurance is half the price of the UK.
We pay $105 per week kindergarten fees for our son which gives him 6hrs on 2 days a week.
We both have mobile smartphones, we have home broadband, sky tv with sports.
We eat out maybe twice, three times a week but not restaurants or at night as little man of ours in bed.
Usually brunch or lunch in a nice country cafe of a weekend.
It's only 25km round trip to work for me in Welly CBD and I have a free parking space so not expensive commuting.
Cost of living as I say probably 10-15% more than UK so at the end of the fortnight we don't have a lot left for savings, major holidays etc but we are of the opinion this will change as my earnings increase in 2013 when I've had my first review.
If you want to know any specifics just ask.
Cheers


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## Ramjet2012

Hi

Well ... We would both definately join gym. We are going the PR route so as far as I am aware wont have to pay school fees. 
We would like a decent size house but not massive. 
Yes, we would like things like broadband, mobile phones, Sky etc my husbands salary will be reviewed in a year and I would work as my kids are 6 and 9 ... Definately don't want to be sitting at home twiddling my thumbs. 
Are you from UK? We are South African living in UK.


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## escapedtonz

Ramjet2012 said:


> Hi
> 
> Well ... We would both definately join gym. We are going the PR route so as far as I am aware wont have to pay school fees.
> We would like a decent size house but not massive.
> Yes, we would like things like broadband, mobile phones, Sky etc my husbands salary will be reviewed in a year and I would work as my kids are 6 and 9 ... Definately don't want to be sitting at home twiddling my thumbs.
> Are you from UK? We are South African living in UK.


Hi, yes we're from the North West of England (Preston) and got PR before we came. Been in Wellington since March.
Cool. So you've already tried emigration from SA to UK ? Didn't it go to plan ? Where abouts are you living in UK ?

Gym costs $850-$900 a year each.

You won't have to pay any state school fees that I'm aware of since you will have Residency.

Housing in CHCH may be hard to find as there's so much demand for it with lots of people losing their homes and the influx of people hoping to work on the rebuild.
You may well have to live further out and up the budget........What size of house are you looking for and what budget ?

We pay $895 a week but as I said we use savings for $395 of it. For that we have a 240 sq m new build house with heating & double glazing, all mod cons and on a nice estate with many government officials living around. Landlord has promised us a discount as well in our second year.

We pay $190 a month for Vodafone 40gb broadband, home phone, landline calls and sky tv with sky sports - all in one package.

We brought over our iPhones from UK and unlocked them via iTunes and got 2degrees SIM cards which is the best mobile provider for costs especially. We pay $45 a month each and get unlimited texts, way enough free minutes but these only cover NZ mobiles and landlines plus 1.1gb Internet per month.

Water is free to us as it is included in the rates the landlord pays.
Gas/Elec approx $650 a month but is coming down as we move into summer. Was $800 a in winter months.


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## anski

escapedtonz said:


> Gas/Elec approx $650 a month but is coming down as we move into summer. Was $800 a in winter months.



That is very expensive, I doubt if many people could afford such high power bills?

What on earth are you using to run up such a huge bill.

During the colder months of the year we pay on average $180 a month for Gas & Electricity (Gas provided by Genesis & Electricity by Mercury. summer is a lot less.

We have gas continuous hot water, gas cooking & gas ducted central heating. We are very extravagant with the C/H run it 18 hours a day. Our home is insulated.


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## escapedtonz

anski said:


> That is very expensive, I doubt if many people could afford such high power bills?
> 
> What on earth are you using to run up such a huge bill.
> 
> During the colder months of the year we pay on average $180 a month for Gas & Electricity (Gas provided by Genesis & Electricity by Mercury. summer is a lot less.
> 
> We have gas continuous hot water, gas cooking & gas ducted central heating. We are very extravagant with the C/H run it 18 hours a day. Our home is insulated.


Yes it is frighteningly expensive.
We have dual fuel with Contact Energy and the majority cost is for the gas.
The only appliances that we have that use gas are the hob and the central heating/hot water system.
The central heating is a roofspace boiler with ducted hot air and it also doubles for instant hot water.
We've reduced how much we switch on the heating to the bare minimum - maybe an hour a day.
Whenever the hot water tap is on the heating system is on giving the hot water so all through a shower or filling the bath etc etc.
Tried so hard to get the bill down but just can't seem to get it any lower than $600 a month so far.
Maybe there is something wrong with our meter but our landlord said he had it checked before we moved in ?


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## Ramjet2012

By the sounds of things your neighbours should be thanking you for paying their bills!! 
Thank you for the info. 
We have lived in UK for over 10 years now. We have dual nationality. We just want to give our kids a better lifestyle growing up and we think NZ have all that we want and my husband is a Quantity Surveyor so the rebuild really gives him great opportunity. 
What are the food prices like compared to a monthly shop in UK? At the moment we are spending about £850 a month for all 4 of us but this includes luxuries like beer, wine, take away and kids basic clothing.


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## escapedtonz

Ramjet2012 said:


> By the sounds of things your neighbours should be thanking you for paying their bills!!
> Thank you for the info.
> We have lived in UK for over 10 years now. We have dual nationality. We just want to give our kids a better lifestyle growing up and we think NZ have all that we want and my husband is a Quantity Surveyor so the rebuild really gives him great opportunity.
> What are the food prices like compared to a monthly shop in UK? At the moment we are spending about £850 a month for all 4 of us but this includes luxuries like beer, wine, take away and kids basic clothing.


Ha ha yeah I am questioning our apparent energy usage. Seems way over what is "normal" for a family of 3 but checked the meter this am with no gas burning and it wasn't ticking along :-(
Maybe I'll give Contact a call anyway and see if they can run some checks, check our tariff etc.

Can relate to you wanting a better lifestyle for your kids. One of our main reasons for coming here also but I'm not sure whether we could handle Christchurch as a place to live. 
Wouldn't bother me about the earthquakes but I know my wife wouldn't be happy living there.
Probably also too cold for us in the winter as we expect its a lot colder in winter than UK ?
You are right about your husband having many opportunities there though. Shouldn't be hard for him to find a job.

Food wise it is a lot more expensive than the UK and nowhere near as much choice or convenience. 
In the UK we didn't watch what we spent at all. We just bought whatever we wanted & usually always the finest range in the supermarkets. We had money to burn, me being on a third more salary and my wife also earning albeit on maternity pay so can't really say what we spent each month.
Here in NZ we spend around $800-$1000 a month but we watch what we buy and steer clear of international brands as they are a lot more expensive than in UK.
Beer is approx same as UK, just not as much choice but can get case 24 330ml bottles decent lager for $35. Wine also probably same price as UK.
Kids clothes expensive as is all clothing and shoes unless you shop in The Warehouse or KMart which are stores like Matalan and Primark.

Take away is also more expensive and not as good.
Still not found a really good Chinese or Indian take away yet. Just not as many dishes on offer and hard to find all the starter Chinese bits like duck, prawn toast and honey ribs etc.
Fish & Chips are just appalling unless you get battered fillet but the chips are still awful as usually pre-cooked then just heated through in the deep fryer when needed. Not mass cooked like in a UK chippy. Everything cooked in portions when ordered.


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## mikesurf

escapedtonz said:


> Fish & Chips are just appalling unless you get battered fillet but the chips are still awful as usually pre-cooked then just heated through in the deep fryer when needed. Not mass cooked like in a UK chippy. Everything cooked in portions when ordered.


I agree with everything you said except for the fish & chips, chips are not very good but some of the fish was great.


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## mikesurf

I think it all depends on what you call a better lifestyle. This term gets thrown around a lot but doesn't really clarify much. 

If you mean you want an outdoors lifestyle then yes it could be the place. This does come at a cost though as you will be suprised by the cost of things. I think initially it is not just the cost of buying or renting in NZ but but also the quality of housing that is a bit of a shock. If you have kids you will want to be renting in the higher end of the market just to make sure you have all the insulation and mod cons of a UK house. 

More expensive items than UK:
Food
Clothing
House prices
Rental prices
Eating out
Drinking out
Second hand goods such as furniture


Less expensive :
Fuel

Can't think of much else to be honest.

Also wages will probably be around a 3rd less than the UK


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## lorgnette

During the colder months of the year we pay on average $180 a month for Gas & Electricity (Gas provided by Genesis & Electricity by Mercury. summer is a lot less.
We have gas continuous hot water, gas cooking & gas ducted central heating. We are very extravagant with the C/H run it 18 hours a day. Our home is insulated.

However unless you own a house, many rental houses are not insulated, causing heating bills to be higher. 

While it is good to paint a positive POV, it is worth to respond realistically to avoid since most residents relocate without expat relocation benefits and travel on their own dime. 

I agree with Mikesurf's " you will be surprised by the cost of things" as price of all commodities are higher (even local produce like milk and cheese) except gas. Added to the equation-- paycheck is considerably less than UK or US.


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## lorgnette

Advised to read all the comments on forums before deciding. It is a huge decision to move half a world away based on trusts from respondents remarks. 

It is tough to be realistic without discouragement. 

There are many lovely outdoor activities for families and if that is what you propose until after retirement in NZ in your long term planning, then I recommend to come for your adventure. 

If you have a comfortable life in UK, and looking for similar lifestyle short term in NZ before you retire in UK, after paying higher costs of living in NZ, there is a high probability you will return with lesser savings.

It depends on what you are searching for in a better lifestyle on your short/long term planning.


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## anski

> However unless you own a house, many rental houses are not insulated, causing heating bills to be higher.
> 
> While it is good to paint a positive POV, it is worth to respond realistically to avoid since most residents relocate without expat relocation benefits and travel on their own dime.
> 
> I agree with Mikesurf's " you will be surprised by the cost of things" as price of all commodities are higher (even local produce like milk and cheese) except gas. Added to the equation-- paycheck is considerably less than UK or US.



You copied my experience with heating costs.

Whilst my bill may be less than $200 a month I do know of others with bills of $400 but I have never heard of anyone with a $800 monthly bill. They should investigate why it is so high.

Maybe they are using a clothes drier extensively. Or as somebody else suggested maybe they are paying for somebody else's power.


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## Sarahhh

Hey guys, do you think is realistic to be able to move and live a frugal life just me on £17,000 savings? That is if I don't stay in the up and save properly for the next 2 years. Im a nurse so really really considering it! I understand that the wages are significantly different but can it be done on a 'student' budget??  thanks!


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## mikesurf

Hi, yes I think you would be okay but do think about it if you have not been to NZ before. I have some good friends who are nurses and only stayed for several months before they left. So make sure you don't end up spending all your savings and then decide it's not for you and leave.


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## Ramjet2012

By better way of life I mean ... More family time. My husband leaves for work at 630am and is only home at the earliest 730pm. Commutes 1.5 hours one way. Sees the kids for 15 minutes a day. 
Quality of life. Family life. Kids love sport we all love outdoors, growing up in SA that is what we are used too.
SA also expensive compared to UK. Just want to be realistic and nt have any surprises.


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## anski

Ramjet2012 said:


> By better way of life I mean ... More family time. My husband leaves for work at 630am and is only home at the earliest 730pm. Commutes 1.5 hours one way. Sees the kids for 15 minutes a day.
> Quality of life. Family life. Kids love sport we all love outdoors, growing up in SA that is what we are used too.
> SA also expensive compared to UK. Just want to be realistic and nt have any surprises.


I doubt very much your husband would have a long commute here. There are many ex SA here particularly in Auckland, I know of another ex SA family moved to Hawkes Bay -they are loving it.

In many ways both Australia & NZ are similar to SA without the security measures required. I returned to the UK for 2 years after spending my childhood in SA (Cape Town) & could not handle UK. That was many years ago. I then lived in Australia for 32 years & have lived on & off in NZ for the last 11 years.
Both countries are a substitute for SA (you never get SA out of your soul) but these days SA is so vastly different to my childhood memories.

The UK in my opinion is overcrowded & for the wealthy. Yes there are some very desirable parts but unless you have money for most people it is a different existence with long commutes, jammed roads & public transport. I was last there in March 2011 & cost of public transport (trains & buses) was horrendous so was petrol. Driving was grid locked. I found groceries cheaper but honestly I would rather pay a little more & have a better lifestyle & better quality of life.

During a holiday in Christchurch a few years ago I found buying fruit & veg from roadside stalls close to CC a fraction of the price in supermarkets. I don't have access to that here in Auckland close to where I live. 


So there are many benefits in NZ & for me they outweigh the negatives.

If you have any other questions please feel free to post them or use the search engine as there are many threads on these topics.


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## Toni in Auckland

The bills are liely to be a lot higher if you have children or more than two people in a household. Heating water for clothes washing and showering can cost a small fortune, having two showers a day can be a luxury for some people. I let my washing dry naturally, I can't afford to use a tumble drier.


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## escapedtonz

Ok I've done some comparisons etc on the energy bills and it appears we are paying more than the text book "normal" family.
Just paid the latest bill which was our 4th payment since we moved in. We are on dual fuel low user tariff's and get 22% off the final bill cost since we pay by direct debit.
We moved in 1st May 2012 so for a week short of 7 months usage - we have paid Contact Energy a total of $2917 !!!
Averages around $425 a month not $650 that I thought but still considerably high.

What do you reckon ?

Quite rightly I've wrote to them and demanded an investigation into our apparent high usage and costs.

We paid around the equivalent of $315 a month back at our house in the UK. Similar size and similar systems. We didn't watch any of our usage back in the UK at all. Heating on all through spring, autumn, winter. Tumble drier on for clothes drying as you could never guarantee it wouldn't get wet in the rain if hung on the line.
House lit up like a Christmas tree every night, I'm sure you get the drift......

We question switching on the heating here all the time as we don't want to run up a huge bill. We've turned the hot water temp down to 40 degrees, we don't use electric heating any more etc etc. We really are trying to cut our usage to a minimum but still the bills are excessive.


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## anski

escapedtonz said:


> Ok I've done some comparisons etc on the energy bills and it appears we are paying more than the text book "normal" family.
> Just paid the latest bill which was our 4th payment since we moved in. We are on dual fuel low user tariff's and get 22% off the final bill cost since we pay by direct debit.
> We moved in 1st May 2012 so for a week short of 7 months usage - we have paid Contact Energy a total of $2917 !!!
> Averages around $425 a month not $650 that I thought but still considerably high.
> 
> What do you reckon ?
> 
> Quite rightly I've wrote to them and demanded an investigation into our apparent high usage and costs.
> 
> We paid around the equivalent of $315 a month back at our house in the UK. Similar size and similar systems. We didn't watch any of our usage back in the UK at all. Heating on all through spring, autumn, winter. Tumble drier on for clothes drying as you could never guarantee it wouldn't get wet in the rain if hung on the line.
> House lit up like a Christmas tree every night, I'm sure you get the drift......
> 
> We question switching on the heating here all the time as we don't want to run up a huge bill. We've turned the hot water temp down to 40 degrees, we don't use electric heating any more etc etc. We really are trying to cut our usage to a minimum but still the bills are excessive.


OK Firstly try doing a comparison to see if other providers are cheaper. I did this & switched to the cheapest power provider for gas & electricity (hence I ended up switching to Genesis & Mercury) it does pay to compare.

Use these links to compare power providers.

Reduce Your Power Cost | Forecast Your Savings | Powershop

Consumer Powerswitch

& these links to see what it costs to run appliances

Running Cost Calculator | EECA Energywise


Energy Cost

Running Cost Calculator | Warmup

Simple ways to save on hot water | EECA Energywise

Hot water can run up bills especially if you are constantly heating up a hot water tank.

Is you home insulated? or are you loosing heat because of lack of insulation.

You may be on the wrong tarrif.

Failing all this maybe look for a house that is more energy efficient .

In my house we use the C/H excessively at between 20 -22c for up to 19 hours a day.

Our home is fully insulated in the ceiling & below the floor.

We only pay for the hot water we use (we have a gas instantaneous hot water unit, so no tank to heat up.

I use a dishwasher every day & sometimes 2 loads.

I do not use a clothes drier. I wash on dry days & if I cannot dry it completely I make use of the heat stored in my conservatory or west facing laundry which has large glass windows.


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## escapedtonz

anski said:


> OK Firstly try doing a comparison to see if other providers are cheaper. I did this & switched to the cheapest power provider for gas & electricity (hence I ended up switching to Genesis & Mercury) it does pay to compare.
> 
> Use these links to compare power providers.
> 
> Reduce Your Power Cost | Forecast Your Savings | Powershop
> 
> Consumer Powerswitch
> 
> & these links to see what it costs to run appliances
> 
> Running Cost Calculator | EECA Energywise
> 
> Energy Cost
> 
> Running Cost Calculator | Warmup
> 
> Simple ways to save on hot water | EECA Energywise
> 
> Hot water can run up bills especially if you are constantly heating up a hot water tank.
> 
> Is you home insulated? or are you loosing heat because of lack of insulation.
> 
> You may be on the wrong tarrif.
> 
> Failing all this maybe look for a house that is more energy efficient .
> 
> In my house we use the C/H excessively at between 20 -22c for up to 19 hours a day.
> 
> Our home is fully insulated in the ceiling & below the floor.
> 
> We only pay for the hot water we use (we have a gas instantaneous hot water unit, so no tank to heat up.
> 
> I use a dishwasher every day & sometimes 2 loads.
> 
> I do not use a clothes drier. I wash on dry days & if I cannot dry it completely I make use of the heat stored in my conservatory or west facing laundry which has large glass windows.


Yes I've already looked at the comparison sites. Funnily enough I did that prior to deciding on Contact Energy before we moved in as they were the cheapest at the time for dual fuel - one bill for both.
Thanks for the other links.
No we don't have a hot water tank to heat up. We have the continuous hot water when we turn the tap so the boiler and gas only burning when the hot water tap is on.
Home is insulated. It's a new build so to all the latest regulations but nowhere near as insulated as homes back in the UK.
It also is a big space downstairs and has a lot of glass but double glazed although not very good standard.
Dishwasher only used max once per day.
We have a tumble drier but try not to use it that much.
Generally dry clothes outside at this time of year.


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## anski

escapedtonz said:


> Yes I've already looked at the comparison sites. Funnily enough I did that prior to deciding on Contact Energy before we moved in as they were the cheapest at the time for dual fuel - one bill for both.
> Thanks for the other links.
> No we don't have a hot water tank to heat up. We have the continuous hot water when we turn the tap so the boiler and gas only burning when the hot water tap is on.
> Home is insulated. It's a new build so to all the latest regulations but nowhere near as insulated as homes back in the UK.
> It also is a big space downstairs and has a lot of glass but double glazed although not very good standard.
> Dishwasher only used max once per day.
> We have a tumble drier but try not to use it that much.
> Generally dry clothes outside at this time of year.


OK, well I still think you are paying way more than average in NZ. 

I do not know Wellington but looking on Trademe is see a modern 4 bed 2 bath house for rent for $650 so if you are paying $895 I think your landlord must be having a lend of you unless your house is remarkable. I would be letting my fingers do the walking.


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## rcwilli

Hello, I am an American that moved to Wellington 4 years ago. I am still struggling with our decision.


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## jsharbuck

Curious why you are struggling ? We have been here sincemaugust.


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## rcwilli

*response*

Most of my message got cut off sorry about!! 
I am almost integrated into NZ, but I get homesick. But, I was trying to respond to the original question, not my homesickness! It sounds like you are doing fine and that is great. I really think it is very difficult in this country, from a financial perspective. I will be interested to hear if your situation is different. 
We were living in Upstate NY where my husband a PHD research scientist for a University, our house cost $90,000 and it was an amazing house with a pool and in the nicest area. I had kids, 7 & 8, when I went back to work. I worked from my home. Between the two of us, we were making over $200,000 US a year. 
I am now making 1/4 of what I was making over 4 years ago in the US. My husband's salary stayed about the same. My options to be a stay at home mom and make decent money are just not there. I only have a BA from the University of Washington, but I am making the same money now as I was making in the US over 20 years ago. Plus, the cost of living is so much higher.


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## rcwilli

rcwilli said:


> Most of my message got cut off sorry about!!
> I am almost integrated into NZ, but I get homesick. But, I was trying to respond to the original question, not my homesickness! It sounds like you are doing fine and that is great. I really think it is very difficult in this country, from a financial perspective. I will be interested to hear if your situation is different.
> We were living in Upstate NY where my husband a PHD research scientist for a University, our house cost $90,000 and it was an amazing house with a pool and in the nicest area. I had kids, 7 & 8, when I went back to work. I worked from my home. Between the two of us, we were making over $200,000 US a year.
> I am now making 1/4 of what I was making over 4 years ago in the US. My husband's salary stayed about the same. My options to be a stay at home mom and make decent money are just not there. I only have a BA from the University of Washington, but I am making the same money now as I was making in the US over 20 years ago. Plus, the cost of living is so much higher.


Many people say that you come to NZ for the lifestyle, but I think that only is true if you come with a lot of money to start with. You can buy your home with cash,etc. When we left NY we were paying 5% interest on our house and we also got that back in our tax return. When we moved here, the mortgage was over 8% and you can't get a refund on your taxes. I haven't bought any new clothes because a pair of Levis in SF that would cost me $29, is $129 here. My kids Addidas Tennis shoes in the US are about $24.00, here they are over $100.00. I can get most of these items when I go home, but it isn't easy. A decent Mascara, such as Lancomb, is $42.00 here. It is only $17.00 in the US. SO, I am making 1/4 of the salary and paying twice or 3x as much for product. 
That is one of the reasons it is hard. I am NOT a shopper either, but I feel the pinch BIG TIME!


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## anski

rcwilli said:


> Many people say that you come to NZ for the lifestyle, but I think that only is true if you come with a lot of money to start with. You can buy your home with cash,etc. When we left NY we were paying 5% interest on our house and we also got that back in our tax return. When we moved here, the mortgage was over 8% and you can't get a refund on your taxes. I haven't bought any new clothes because a pair of Levis in SF that would cost me $29, is $129 here. My kids Addidas Tennis shoes in the US are about $24.00, here they are over $100.00. I can get most of these items when I go home, but it isn't easy. A decent Mascara, such as Lancomb, is $42.00 here. It is only $17.00 in the US. SO, I am making 1/4 of the salary and paying twice or 3x as much for product.
> That is one of the reasons it is hard. I am NOT a shopper either, but I feel the pinch BIG TIME!


I totally agree with you on prices. I spent 3 months in the US this year & really stocked up on clothes, shoes & cosmetics. I could not believe how cheap things were especially if buying in the outlet shops. No wonder so many people here are shopping online in the US because even with the shipping it must work out cheaper.


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