# residencia



## lana1306 (Sep 11, 2009)

i have family living in torre del mar and may possibly be moving back to scotland however they have just signed up for spanish residencia and were wondering if there would be any implacations in moving back ie with tax, the NHS or also with family allowance benefits? i have searched all i can think of and cant find an answer. does anybody know of anything, or possibly any other problems there might be?? thanks in advance for any help!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

In cross border moves the best thing is to advise the CENSORING body of your change of residence - In Spain I would visit the Ayuntamiento and apply for removal from the PADRON - and obtain a certificate stating such. 

If working I would also visit Spains SS and Hacienda. You may be able to get statemenyts of entitlement for future pensions etc. I've never had issues UK- GERMANY - SPAIN either registering or de registering.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

lana1306 said:


> i have family living in torre del mar and may possibly be moving back to scotland however they have just signed up for spanish residencia and were wondering if there would be any implacations in moving back ie with tax, the NHS or also with family allowance benefits? i have searched all i can think of and cant find an answer. does anybody know of anything, or possibly any other problems there might be?? thanks in advance for any help!



Hi Lana

I posted this link in the "useful links" page a week or so ago, it gives some general advice of living/working in Spain for UK Nationals, and also for returning to the UK ... hope it helps.

Sue :ranger:

Pensions, benefits, healthcare


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## CLEARPOINT (Sep 23, 2009)

lana1306 said:


> i have family living in torre del mar and may possibly be moving back to scotland however they have just signed up for spanish residencia and were wondering if there would be any implacations in moving back ie with tax, the NHS or also with family allowance benefits? i have searched all i can think of and cant find an answer. does anybody know of anything, or possibly any other problems there might be?? thanks in advance for any help!


There will be no implications for moving back to Scotland if you are a Scottish national. Residencia, move then anything, is submitting to be a tax resident in Spain. When you go back to Scotland you can rejoin the system as normal without any problems. If you are looking to claim benefits there then you will have to be there for several months before hand but you will be directly entitled to health care and so on. Effectivly the reason it is so easy to move around Eurpe is due to the EEC. This enables citizens of member states to be entitled to the same as nationals. Theerfore your registration ion Spain would have been to show your entitlements here but this would not have negated what you are entitled to in Scotland. There may be an overlap on taxes but these can be reclaimed if they effect you. Hope this has helped.

Regards,

Robert


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

CLEARPOINT said:


> There will be no implications for moving back to Scotland if you are a Scottish national. Residencia, move then anything, is submitting to be a tax resident in Spain. When you go back to Scotland you can rejoin the system as normal without any problems. If you are looking to claim benefits there then you will have to be there for several months before hand but you will be directly entitled to health care and so on. Effectivly the reason it is so easy to move around Eurpe is due to the EEC. This enables citizens of member states to be entitled to the same as nationals. Theerfore your registration ion Spain would have been to show your entitlements here but this would not have negated what you are entitled to in Scotland. There may be an overlap on taxes but these can be reclaimed if they effect you. Hope this has helped.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert


Hi Robert ... nice to see a new face on here 

My understanding of this was a little different based on the UK FCO website where it gives advice and guidance on what to do when entering / leaving Spain for UK residents. If you cut all ties with the UK and move to spain entering into their system ... then when you go back to the UK it does not automatically follow that you are entitled to benefits / health care etc ... Im sure you need to de-register from Spain first ... before you can even start in the UK.

Im no expert  just what I have read on the guidance notes.

Sue :ranger:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Robert ... nice to see a new face on here
> 
> My understanding of this was a little different based on the UK FCO website where it gives advice and guidance on what to do when entering / leaving Spain for UK residents. If you cut all ties with the UK and move to spain entering into their system ... then when you go back to the UK it does not automatically follow that you are entitled to benefits / health care etc ... Im sure you need to de-register from Spain first ... before you can even start in the UK.
> 
> ...


My friend and her family have just returned to the UK after living and working here for seven years. They were totally intergrated here in Spain, paying into the system and had no ties with the UK at all. However, within a week of returning (altho her husband is still in Spain working out his notice), her daughter has started college and is getting various grants, inlcuding travel expenses and 30 pounds a week "wages" (a new thing apparently to encourage FE) and they are entitled to all the other UK benefits. Altho they have enough money not to need to claim anything (from their house sale here) so they wont, but its there if they need to???

Jo xxx


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## CLEARPOINT (Sep 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Robert ... nice to see a new face on here
> 
> My understanding of this was a little different based on the UK FCO website where it gives advice and guidance on what to do when entering / leaving Spain for UK residents. If you cut all ties with the UK and move to spain entering into their system ... then when you go back to the UK it does not automatically follow that you are entitled to benefits / health care etc ... Im sure you need to de-register from Spain first ... before you can even start in the UK.
> 
> ...


Thanks SUe. Like many things there are alot of Grey areas. My experience is based oon my parents moving back to the UK just a few months ago. They have registered with the doctors and were recieving health care immediatly and I know they did not de-register here. I think the major grey area comes from the word Domiciled. There are a number of different opinions but that is the general response. My sister-in-law also returned there several years with my niece and again they entered straight back into the system. 

Regards


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Jo

As I said Im certainly no expert myself on this  Just the information I had checked out recently for someone else ... and based on this information on the UK FCO website ..... maybe it depends on how each local authority responds to returning expats!! ... Sue xx


*Returning to the UK
Umbrella with Union Flag design. © Getty Images

If you intend to return to the UK permanently, we can offer advice on what to do before you leave Spain

If you intend to return to the UK permanently, this page gives advice on what to do before you leave Spain, and what your rights will be when you get back to the UK - it should be as well planned as if you were moving abroad.
De-registering with the Spanish authorities

Tell the Town Hall and the Police you are leaving; and if you have registered for healthcare, the Instituto Nacional de la Seguridad Social (INSS) also need to know. If you don’t de-register before you leave Spain, you may face difficulties in registering in the UK and getting benefits.
Rights to means-tested benefits

You won’t automatically be entitled to all the benefits you had before you left the UK and special rules apply to people who arrive there after living in another country. Means-tested benefits are only available to people who are ‘habitually resident’. This means you must be able to show that:

* you have attachments to the UK;

* you have lived there for some time, and;

* you have a settled intention to remain in the country

You may need to have been living in the UK for 1 to 3 months before you can demonstrate that you are habitually resident there. Eligibility for means-tested benefits is decided by your local authority.
Healthcare

The NHS is first and foremost for the benefit of people living lawfully in the UK. Entitlement to free NHS treatment is based on whether someone is ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, and not on British nationality or past/present payment of National Insurance contributions or UK taxes.

People who don’t pass the ‘habitual residence’ tests may be charged for treatment. It is up to NHS/Primary Care Trusts to establish whether each patient is ordinarily resident for the purposes of healthcare. If you can’t satisfy the NHS/Primary Care Trust that you’re entitled to free treatment you may be liable to pay.
Social care*

Local authority social services departments provide social care services for people who are ‘ordinarily resident’ in their areas and aren’t able to arrange it for themselves. Residential care (care in a care or nursing home) is subject to charging, depending on residents’ ability to pay.

However, the local authority in your area is obliged to provide or arrange residential accommodation even if you’re of ‘no settled residence’, or not ordinarily resident in the area and in urgent need of residential accommodation.

People who can pay for their own care can of course make their own arrangements, but local authorities are able to arrange care on their behalf if appropriate. Before care home options are considered for individuals, local authorities have to complete assessments of their needs and financial circumstances.

Useful information on finding a care home, assistance from councils, costs and related topics is available on the Directgov public information website.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I believe you hun, I'm just wondering how my friend has done it ?????????... the plot thickens!!!!??????????????

Jo xxx


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> My friend and her family have just returned to the UK after living and working here for seven years. They were totally intergrated here in Spain, paying into the system and had no ties with the UK at all. However, within a week of returning (altho her husband is still in Spain working out his notice), her daughter has started college and is getting various grants, inlcuding travel expenses and 30 pounds a week "wages" (a new thing apparently to encourage FE) and they are entitled to all the other UK benefits. Altho they have enough money not to need to claim anything (from their house sale here) so they wont, but its there if they need to???
> 
> Jo xxx


Probably partly explains why UK is in such a mess.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

CLEARPOINT said:


> There will be no implications for moving back to Scotland if you are a Scottish national. Residencia, move then anything, is submitting to be a tax resident in Spain. When you go back to Scotland you can rejoin the system as normal without any problems. If you are looking to claim benefits there then you will have to be there for several months before hand but you will be directly entitled to health care and so on. Effectivly the reason it is so easy to move around Eurpe is due to the EEC. This enables citizens of member states to be entitled to the same as nationals. Theerfore your registration ion Spain would have been to show your entitlements here but this would not have negated what you are entitled to in Scotland. There may be an overlap on taxes but these can be reclaimed if they effect you. Hope this has helped.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert


Fair points, although its worth pointing out that Tax residency is totally different to what we like to call "residencia". Residencia is in fact just registering yourself on the foreigners register in Spain, whereas Tax residency is automatic after a specified period of time here.


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Fair points, although its worth pointing out that Tax residency is totally different to what we like to call "residencia". Residencia is in fact just registering yourself on the foreigners register in Spain, whereas Tax residency is automatic after a specified period of time here.


When you say "tax residency is automatic after a specified period of time", can you explain further as we have been here for 7 years and pay tax on our private and state pensions in the UK. Is this likely to change ? By the way, we are residents in that we have our residencia cards.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Hombre said:


> When you say "tax residency is automatic after a specified period of time", can you explain further as we have been here for 7 years and pay tax on our private and state pensions in the UK. Is this likely to change ? By the way, we are residents in that we have our residencia cards.


You should be paying tax on your private and state pensions here in Spain I'm afrraid. You become a tax resident in Spain after 183 days. Its theoretically possible that the Spanish tax authorities could come knocking and levy fines and back tax for any difference between the UK and Spanish rates of tax.

The only exception are UK Government pensions

Ours are set up so that the state pension is taxed here in Spain, using the Spanish tax allowances, and the Government pension is taxed in the UK, taking advantage of the UK allowances.

To get NIL tax in the UK you download an FD9 from the HMRC site. Take it to the hacienda in Spain, and get it stamped up. Then send it back to HMRC Nottingham. They take 6 months to action it, and then you are zero taxed in the UK.


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