# Only A Matter Of Time



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

In five days or so the International Court in the Hague is going render their decision and judgment on case the Philippines filed against China on the South China Sea issues.

The United States now has two complete carrier strike groups in the area, numerous, nuclear subs (most well hidden) close by. We also have the US hospital ship the USNS Mercy anchored close to I think it's Cebu and military ships from (Allied) countries here as well.

At the same time, now, China has a massive Naval build up for "training purposes" in the South China Sea. Coincidence? Obviously not. If there is a full blown conflict there is no doubt that China could never prevail. So now the players for the most part are in place waiting for someone to make a move. Also, with the world economy in bad shape the US would not move and keep that much firepower in the area if they did not think it was necessary and were prepared to use it. 

Judging from This New Article as well as continuing news and information; it is *this members opinion* that a large scale conflict is not a matter of if but rather when.

It goes without saying that we, the public, know far less than the governments involved know about the situation at the moment.
With these factors in mind it makes me wonder just how far a conflict would go? How long would it last? Would or will it affect travel to and from the Philippines? What about U.S. Social Security direct deposits as well as most other pensions and access here in the Philippines? And perhaps most importantly--when China realizes that they cannot win the fight and feel they have nothing left to lose, will they launch a strike against the Philippines in retribution for filing the court case that in their self serving view is the cause of their problems?

These are serious issues that cause deep thought and concern for many of us that live in the crosshairs of a could be world conflict...


Thoughts and opinions?


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

The question for me is how far is China intending to take this dispute? 

On the one hand they want to be seen as a respected member of the international community, but then they have this ridiculous claim in the S. China Sea. It's been around for a long time, but has been pushed in recent years and will be given further momentum in China by the UN ruling. It's going to be seen by most Chinese as one more humiliation dealt out to them by "The Great Powers". The events of the early years of the last century in China are still influencing their attitude today in international relations.

Is the Chinese economy performing much worse then their massaged statistics indicate? This dispute would be a convenient distraction as we know the Chinese Communist Party is fearful of social unrest and any loss of domestic control.

Yes, the Philippines would be affected badly if anything kicked off. The area really is our back yard, not China's, as she claims. But so would China. She depends on freedom of navigation to import raw materials and export manufactured goods, so any disruptions in the sea lanes will further slow down her economy. Companies will put further investments in China on hold.

So apart from the military imbalance I don't think China will push things very far. However, as people have said before here, there is always the possibility of miscalculation. And even some local skirmishes could shock the world economy. We have just seen the domestic matter of Britain's EU Referendum result shocking the markets for a few days and this would be much more serious as a threat to world trade.

On the US side I just hope they have their best brains thinking about this, and that those in government will take their advice - unlike in 2003 and Iraq.

Last, it seems to me unfortunate that this area of sea has the name South China Sea. Can we change it? It's not helping!


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

As I mentioned sometime back on a related thread, there are so many different countries involved here makes it very hard to do any speculating. I mentioned about the possibility of some "hot headed" response and just the other day the Department Director of the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs made such a statement. I can't remember it exactly so I can't quote it but in essence said "We are not afraid of anybody". Now considering the Chinese mentality this is almost the same as a challenge. About the same as a 2nd grader saying "I ain't afraid of you" just before he gets his *ss whupped by a 3rd grader. 

Until that ruling actually comes out from the Hague, depending on what is stated and how it is stated, and then what if any action(s) is/are taken about all we can do is maintain a wait & see stance, especially as expats.

Could get interesting, we may have front row seats or we may even be involved.

Fred


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

The government here is saying they won't make any provocative statements against China in advance of the ruling. That's about as far as they can go for now.

In addition to the other reasons given in this thread I think the Philippines will not bear the brunt of China's anger.

Chinese and Chinoy business people do very well here and will be lobbying China not to jeopardise their overwhelming business presence, especially as a new government has been elected with an aim to free up the economy. The Chinese here already know there is some resentment around over their stranglehold in many sectors, eg retailing, hardware and over practices eg treatment of workers. Due to the generally passive and forgiving nature of the Filipino people this does not get expressed very often, but I think some of the Chinese business people here are concerned that the S China Sea dispute added to some aspects of the radical economic agenda of the new government will worsen things for them.

Also, the Philippines runs a large trade imbalance with China.

My prediction is that at some time or other the Chinese will do something unexpected against one or more of the other nations claiming islands and reefs involved in this dispute. In 1982 the Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands was preceded by a surprise landing on another British territory, South Georgia, even further away from Argentina, by some Argentine Marines masquerading as a group of scrap metal merchants and workers. The Chinese are already doing a bit of that now.

I don't know where that will be but they won't pick on the Vietnamese - there's no love lost between the two nations. They know from the 1979 war that the Vietnamese fight back.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*US: A Deliberate Show Of Force*

Three US destroyers — the Spruance, Stethem and Momsen — have been patrolling near the Chinese-claimed Scarborough Shoal and Spratly Islands further south.
The aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan and supporting vessels are also in the South China Sea, the US Navy has...

Read The Story

(source: INQ News)


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Datchworth said:


> The question for me is how far is China intending to take this dispute?


This "international" respect didn't stop China from bulling their way with China as recent as a few years ago, nor did it stop China from pushing the Indians out of the areas that China claimed was Chinese Territory (Actually Tibetan territory .. but who cares .. ) .. and Even as recent as a couple of years ago, China tried to move the Border Posts between India and China.

How far will they go ? Well, when they have 2 billion people baying for blood, and revenge for injustices, and all - in this case, Filipinos robbing the Chinese of their ancestoral land (don't ask - I know, the places they are claiming is so freaking far away from Mainland .. ) 

And all and this will mean China will have more sea for fishermen - fishermen who are always hungry for more produce to feed the 2 billion population, I am sure the Chinese Govt Don't care what the international community thinks.

And, ah, did China give up their claim for Taiwan ?

And, ah, again, who is NoKor's staunchest supporter.


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

On a regional view China is certainly a bully - when she threatens or does something all the West does is put out statements and then keeps on looking for their rather dubious investments. Maybe the West should take a stronger line on their land grabbing and human rights record , but given China's size and entrenched communist system (no appeal to voters there will do any good!), can they do much?

But on a world wide international view China wants the prestige that comes with having the world's second biggest economy, biggest population (just under 1.5bn according to the UN), being a nuclear power, having a seat on the UN security council etc. It still likes to see itself as a leader of the non-aligned countries - while at the same time helping itself to their resources onshore and hoovering up their fish offshore. 

At present this dispute has not got the media coverage and government concern it deserves in Western countries. They are too preoccupied with other political, economic and security matters. But that may soon change and China's aggressive behaviour will be worldwide headline news. I think this will be something of an embarrassment to China, although they won't admit it. It may cause them to think again and at least reduce their activity in the disputed area.

In any case I think China's ability to go very far in the S China Sea dispute is greatly limited by a significantly superior military power. Although you can be sure they will be thinking of ways to push their claim which avoid coming into direct conflict with the US and their allied forces.

I suspect the new Philippine president has kowtowed to China by saying that it was not him that appealed to The Hague tribunal. We know he has offered them joint ventures. This may work for a while, until the Chinese realise that they can't split the Philippines off from the US. The new President cannot afford to start off in power by making concessions on Philippine claims. And the public here know all about joint ventures with Chinese firms and will object, although maybe a joint venture or two with Chinoy firms would be acceptable. Then China might up the pressure on the Philippines - but only so far, as I have argued in a previous post. 

No need to stock up on canned food yet.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*China On War Footing*

China has begun military drills in the South China Sea, state media reported on Saturday ahead of a ruling by an international arbitration court on a dispute with the Philippines over...


Read More Here

(source: INQ)


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

In the initial post there is a *"suggestion" *of a *"potential"* interruption to Social Security Direct Deposits as well as other pensions, (including VA Direct Deposits). This would be or could be a *MAJOR* concern for many of us living here. I know I would certainly be in a world of hurt if both my VA and/or my SS Direct Deposits were stopped or even delayed for any reason!

However, with that being said...the world banking system is done electronically and on an invisible computer network and any war time activities or conflicts "should not" change the status of whether a direct deposit is made to our elected bank account or not but the fact still remains if our access would be interrupted. This is certainly something to think about and consider and the possibility of setting up a *CASH STASH* might be in order to get us through a few months of hard times until things can be sorted out...or until someone in Washington realizes that hundreds of thousands of ExPats in the Philippines, (and other countries), have been financially abandoned.

Having a 100,000.00 pesos or so, in cash hidden reserves, tucked away in a safe location to get us through several months might be the *"new norm"* for today's living in the Philippines considering the threats that loom in the nearby waters off our coastline.

I know that my direct deposits for BDO here in the Philippines actually go to a bank in New York City in the US, (as listed on the SS and VA websites when I verify my Direct Deposit information)...so any conflict here in this area should NOT affect my direct deposits, (from the US Government to a New York Based Bank), but then...when does anything go exactly as we plan?

All I can suggest to anyone living here in this area...*DO NOT* think it cannot happen to us here...*DO NOT* think things like this only happen on the news...*BE SAFE* out there, stay informed and vigilant and follow the old time trusted Boy Scout Motto...*"BE PREPARED"*!


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Agree with Cebu Citizen. Maybe I'm just old school enough or something but I just don't totally trust electronics and things connected therewith. Therefore I always try to keep at least PHP 100,000 on hand and approx twice that in US 100 bills. There is always the possibility of a glitch somewhere in the modern computerized banking system and now with the distinct possibility of some disruption to prevent any withdrawals, being prepared is doubly important. 

Fred


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Cebu Citizen said:


> I know that my direct deposits for BDO here in the Philippines actually go to a bank in New York City in the US, (as listed on the SS and VA websites when I verify my Direct Deposit information)...so any conflict here in this area should NOT affect my direct deposits, (from the US Government to a New York Based Bank), but then...when does anything go exactly as we plan?
> 
> All I can suggest to anyone living here in this area...*DO NOT* think it cannot happen to us here...*DO NOT* think things like this only happen on the news...*BE SAFE* out there, stay informed and vigilant and follow the old time trusted Boy Scout Motto...*"BE PREPARED"*!


Having a savings in the house is a good idea just to get by. What I was trying to get across in my original post and didn't state clearly I guess is this. With a military conflict in the region (at sea), our deposits should continue as normal. However, if china were to directly attack the Philippines and or invade the country our deposits to banks here in the Philippines would most likely be stopped within hours. This is because the invading forces would take over all banks here in the country until they are forced out.

Most all other countries would likewise cut all banking (including ATM usage) ties with the Philippines. That would leave all foreign residents and visitors broke.
The feds in the US at least would feel bad for us but remember, we are the ones that chose to be here. Don't know about other countries but the US at most, might try to evacuate as many of us as wanted to go and could get to an evac point.
Really hard to say overall but I would seriously doubt that China would attack the country. Even they are smart enough to know it would cause their demise.


Jet


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

I agree...China is in the same boat as North Korea...they both say they want to do this and they want to do that but in reality if either one actually tried to do what they claim...it would be the end for either country!

China is systematically trying to take over the area seas for both economic and military domination of the area and the world is getting very tired of their actions and China keeps pushing because so far no one is pushing back...now that the Hague ruling was released, the world powers seem better situated to act legally against China and now there is some return pushing.

Up until now there really was no return pushing from other countries and China was being very aggressive but the more the world pushes, I think China will either have to back off or face a third world war...something I do not think they are prepared to do...for several reasons but most recently...look at how much they have lost economically in the past year! China cannot effectively finance a war at this time. I would be extremely surprised if China pushes it into a military confrontation because the entire world will be on one side with China standing alone, (with possibly North Korea).

If that happens, North Korea might very well use the Chinese escalation as a means to push their own agenda...and that *"IS"* very scary! China knows how unstable North Korea is and they may very well align themselves with North Korea knowing that they can get the North Koreans to do their dirty work...and North Korea is unstable enough to just try it.

Kim would love to thumb his nose at the world and if he had China standing beside him...I think he would just try it regardless of the consequences.

This may very well be why China has not aggressively spoken out against North Korea about these recent nuclear tests...maybe North Korea and China are already in each others back pockets...each pushing their own agendas.

Think about it...if something does happen militarily and the North Koreans launch any nukes...the Chinese can deny having anything to do with it and let the blame lay solely on the shoulders of the North Koreans, and effectively take to focus off of themselves.

Of course we can all sit around and speculate...too many scenarios to even consider all the possibilities...

Regardless what happens...we here in the Philippines are certainly going to have a front row seat to it all and specialized target areas like Manila along with other large cities, the airport, major shipping ports and utility zones, (electric grids and water supplies), (Subic?), are direct targets if anything does break out...


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## SierraMadreMe (Mar 26, 2015)

It is interesting that the mention of SS interruptions was mentioned.My SS has not been electronically transmitted to my account this month.Only difference is...my bank where my SS is deposited is in the US.I have emailed and called the SS office in Manila,but so far,no answer.I left my number in hopes that they will respond..:fingerscrossed:

This whole mess could cost a lot of people of trouble.The Chinese don't like to be told what to do,and if the Hague rules against them,then there could be some heck to pay.It may not come in the form or military action,but perhaps not to far down the road the Chinese would cause us some serious economic hardships.

I don't think the Chinese really care to much to being "lorded over",and I don't know that they wouldn't cut off their own noses in order to exact some revenge, directed at both the US and the Philippines.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

To add another thought to all this - I question whether the embassy in Manila will actually be able to be of any help to us as US Citizens as they will probably be incommunicado also if things really come down to it. My thought is that we will as individuals be on our own to survive or escape the mess if it should come down to it.

We should soon start to find out as the ruling came out a bit ago, and as expected, in favor of the Philippines. So we shall see.

Don't have our "go bags" ready yet but may have to do that.

Fred


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Chinese Military Prepares For War*

On orders from the Chinese president, it's military has been ordered to prepair for war. This step they say is in responce to the ruling of the court in the Hague.

Read The Story Here

(source: Manila Live Wire)


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

SierraMadreMe said:


> This whole mess could cost a lot of people of trouble.The Chinese don't like to be told what to do,and if the Hague rules against them,then there could be some heck to pay.It may not come in the form or military action,but perhaps not to far down the road the Chinese would cause us some serious economic hardships.


There is one thing The chinese will never accept - that is - to lose face !!!

And the Chinese are pretty much buying loyalty in poor asian countries. With loans and grants of unbelievable 



SierraMadreMe said:


> I don't think the Chinese really care to much to being "lorded over",and I don't know that they wouldn't cut off their own noses in order to exact some revenge, directed at both the US and the Philippines.


As I said, before, read up on Chinese incursions into India. They are eye opening.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*China Steps Up Tough Talk*










China claims right to air defense zone, denounces court...


Read The Story Here

(source: INQ News)


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

Corrected link to a BBC News article about another possible Chinese military motivation in the S China Sea:

The submarines and rivalries underneath the South China Sea - BBC News

For those of you wanting more to worry about!


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

SierraMadreMe said:


> It is interesting that the mention of SS interruptions was mentioned.My SS has not been electronically transmitted to my account this month.Only difference is...my bank where my SS is deposited is in the US.I have emailed and called the SS office in Manila,but so far,no answer.I left my number in hopes that they will respond..:fingerscrossed:
> 
> This whole mess could cost a lot of people of trouble.The Chinese don't like to be told what to do,and if the Hague rules against them,then there could be some heck to pay.It may not come in the form or military action,but perhaps not to far down the road the Chinese would cause us some serious economic hardships.
> 
> I don't think the Chinese really care to much to being "lorded over",and I don't know that they wouldn't cut off their own noses in order to exact some revenge, directed at both the US and the Philippines.


SierraMadreMe...I used to get my SS direct deposited on the 4th Wednesday of every month, (somewhere between the 22nd and the 28th of each month), when it was deposited in my US Bank Account...but when I transferred it to be deposited into my Philippine Bank Account, the deposit date was changed to the 3rd of every month, so I effectively get my SS a full 3 and a half weeks earlier than before. I was told that ALL SS direct deposits to the Philippines arrive here on the 3rd of every month.

Anyway...at the mention of your SS deposit delay, I checked mine and it arrived on time as usual on the 3rd of July...

I hope yours was eventually deposited. Did you ever find out why it was delayed?


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

fmartin_gila said:


> To add another thought to all this - I question whether the embassy in Manila will actually be able to be of any help to us as US Citizens as they will probably be incommunicado also if things really come down to it. My thought is that we will as individuals be on our own to survive or escape the mess if it should come down to it.
> 
> We should soon start to find out as the ruling came out a bit ago, and as expected, in favor of the Philippines. So we shall see.
> 
> ...



Have had my*"GO BAG"* ready for quite some time now...but it has been a while and I could not remember exactly what all was inside...so, I unpacked everything and repack it, just to check to see if I actually had everything in place in case it was ever needed.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Cebu Citizen said:


> Have had my*"GO BAG"* ready for quite some time now...but it has been a while and I could not remember exactly what all was inside...so, I unpacked everything and repack it, just to check to see if I actually had everything in place in case it was ever needed.


Something as important as a "go bag" or Bug out bag" however one wants to call it needs to be checked occasionally and whenever circumstances change. It pays to keep current and on top of things. Boy Scout Motto "Be Prepared".

Fred


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

fmartin_gila said:


> Something as important as a "go bag" or Bug out bag" however one wants to call it needs to be checked occasionally and whenever circumstances change. It pays to keep current and on top of things. Boy Scout Motto "Be Prepared".
> 
> Fred



I agree...that was exactly what I thought when all of this China stuff started brewing. I thought it might be a really good idea to just unpack everything and double check exactly what I had in the bag.

Now I am quite satisfied that I have everything I might need no matter what situation pops up...just grab the bag and go!And sort out the rest later...as you said...the Boy Scout Motto is to *"BE PREPARED"*!


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

I once asked a senior citizen on what he would do in case of an attack.
He said he'd pop open a bottle of SanMig Light 

With age really DOES come wisdom.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

galactic said:


> I once asked a senior citizen on what he would do in case of an attack.
> He said he'd pop open a bottle of SanMig Light
> 
> With age really DOES come wisdom.


I agree, but can I make mine chocolate milk please??? 

People that are here as tourists would likely be looking for any way out of here if we were attacked. But for those of us that call this home; especially those of us that are married and have families, we are here to stay. Like being on a roller coaster. It's near impossible to stop mid-ride and get off.

If things look they are going south and an attack might be possible, the best thing to do is stock up on canned and boxed food, drinking water, LPG gas, and medicines. At minimum we should have at least a 2 month supply set in.

During any attack the first things to be targeted would be airports, highway bridges, electric and thus water supplies.
The US and other allies would make short work of any attacker but we still need to survive until the local infrastructure can be used. Just think of it as the typhoon that struck Tacloban but only thousands of times worse and plan accordingly.

Every father and mother are the family's storekeepers. They should store whatever their own family would like to have in the case of an emergency. Most of us cannot afford to store a years supply of luxury items, but find it more practical to store staples that might keep us from starving in case of emergency.

As long as I can remember, we have been taught to prepare for the future and to obtain a years supply of necessities. I would guess that the years of plenty have almost universally caused us to set aside this counsel. I believe the time to disregard this counsel is over. With events in the world today, it must be considered with all seriousness...



Jet Lag


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

galactic said:


> I once asked a senior citizen on what he would do in case of an attack.
> He said he'd pop open a bottle of SanMig Light
> 
> With age really DOES come wisdom.


Guess that would depend on just how "senior" your thoughts are. I'm 77 but not ready to kick off yet nor to just accept whatever happens.

Fred


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Here is the latest story US Navy to China: We're staying in South China Sea - CNNPolitics.com


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> I agree, but can I make mine chocolate milk please???
> 
> People that are here as tourists would likely be looking for any way out of here if we were attacked. But for those of us that call this home; especially those of us that are married and have families, we are here to stay. Like being on a roller coaster. It's near impossible to stop mid-ride and get off.
> 
> ...




I AGREE!!!!!

I am not sure if the information is available here in the Philippines but in the US, I had access to a map that showed "ALL" of the top targets in case anyone should make an attack on US soil. This map let anyone know where the safest places were to live even if something unspeakable should happen. I am not sure if a map like this is available for the Philippines. I am sure it exists...but I am not sure if that information is readily available to us. As time went on, the US map made a lot of changes to include new terrorist attack points at shopping malls and movie theaters...BUT in an all out war, the primary targets are as Jet Lag pointed out...major infrastructure points such as major electrical and water sources; airports...both military and civilian; bridges and major highways and transportation hubs; and major food production areas. In any war time situation, the enemy wants to disrupt life in general so it becomes increasingly difficult to operate on a normal day to day basis. They will want to cut food and water supplies, cut communications, (which will include cell phone towers), and cut major transportation routes. Military bases are always a target but many civilian areas will be hit also because in a time of war, the governments will use whatever means possible in their fight against the enemy. If military air fields are hit, you can bet the Philippine Government will use NAIA Airport in a heartbeat...or any other air field that can safely land any military aircraft!

In a war with China or any other recognized nation...I think avoiding these major target areas would be a safe thing to do but in a terrorist situation...adding the avoidance of any place where large crowds gather...especially foreigner crowds, would certainly be wise to stay away from.

This real world threat is always in the back of my mind every time I go to the mall or go to see a movie...Ummm...is today the day someone will target this mall while I am there?

I am not sure how much infrastructure still remains in the Subic area regarding the old military base there but it is entirely possible that Subic could be on the targeted list should something happen here. The Subic area was selected as the best location for a Submarine Base for specific reasons and I am sure a lot of those reasons still exist. I am not trying to scare anyone...just being honest in what we should be thinking about if this situation in the South China Sea escalates.

Living in an area away from any potential targeted locations would be a step in the right direction. As was already pointed out...should an attack happen, the true survival thought is not if we will be safe later as the situation gains control again and life begins to return to normal...it is simply surviving until that control measure happens. If China should attack the Philippines, the world *WILL* retaliate and eventually control will take place but what we do and how we survive until that happens is our responsibility to our families.

And it is not just the threat of an escalating conflict...even the real threat of a major earthquake or a major flood event or another Super Typhoon...each of us should have provisions stored in our homes in the case of "ANY" emergency situation...that is in fact the proper role for the head of the household and provider...to be prepared and to take care of our loved ones no matter what happens down the road or in the future!

Stay safe out their...you and your family matter!


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Cebu Citizen said:


> I AGREE!!!!!
> 
> I am not sure if the information is available here in the Philippines but in the US, I had access to a map that showed "ALL" of the top targets in case anyone should make an attack on US soil. This map let anyone know where the safest places were to live even if something unspeakable should happen. I am not sure if a map like this is available for the Philippines. I am sure it exists...but I am not sure if that information is readily available to us. As time went on, the US map made a lot of changes to include new terrorist attack points at shopping malls and movie theaters...BUT in an all out war, the primary targets are as Jet Lag pointed out...major infrastructure points such as major electrical and water sources; airports...both military and civilian; bridges and major highways and transportation hubs; and major food production areas. In any war time situation, the enemy wants to disrupt life in general so it becomes increasingly difficult to operate on a normal day to day basis. They will want to cut food and water supplies, cut communications, (which will include cell phone towers), and cut major transportation routes. Military bases are always a target but many civilian areas will be hit also because in a time of war, the governments will use whatever means possible in their fight against the enemy. If military air fields are hit, you can bet the Philippine Government will use NAIA Airport in a heartbeat...or any other air field that can safely land any military aircraft!
> 
> ...


I agree 100% on all accounts. What has a more than just a bit concerned is the terrorism possibilities. More and more of the advanced countries are putting a lid on these idiots and their attacks. As they do so, shopping malls etc will become a softer target here and countries like this.

I read somewhere that these terrorists, if successful in an attack are supposed to get something like 60 or 70 virgins in their heaven? 
Someone really should explain to these morons that those virgins will all look like Ma Kettle! Maybe then they would decide on another line of work :rapture::loco:


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Jet Lag said:


> I agree 100% on all accounts. What has a more than just a bit concerned is the terrorism possibilities. More and more of the advanced countries are putting a lid on these idiots and their attacks. As they do so, shopping malls etc will become a softer target here and countries like this.
> 
> I read somewhere that these terrorists, if successful in an attack are supposed to get something like 60 or 70 virgins in their heaven?
> Someone really should explain to these morons that those virgins will all look like Ma Kettle! Maybe then they would decide on another line of work :rapture::loco:


What leads you to believe that more advanced countries are putting a lid on terrorist attacks. Have you not been following the news in France and Germany? Far from getting better, the situation is getting worse and will continue to do so all the while Angla Merkel continues with her crazy open door policy to immigrants.
The terrorists are striking Western targets for the exposure, publicity whatever you want to call it. I don't believe that these same terrorists are interested in soft targets in 3rd World countries when they can seemingly strike at will wherever they wish in Europe.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

hogrider said:


> What leads you to believe that more advanced countries are putting a lid on terrorist attacks. Have you not been following the news in France and Germany? Far from getting better, the situation is getting worse and will continue to do so all the while Angla Merkel continues with her crazy open door policy to immigrants.
> The terrorists are striking Western targets for the exposure, publicity whatever you want to call it. I don't believe that these same terrorists are interested in soft targets in 3rd World countries when they can seemingly strike at will wherever they wish in Europe.


I was more or less excluding those countries and not wanting to single them out. But even there, they are feeling the serious effects of their lax policies. Thing will change but it's gonna take a worldwide commitment and participation to put an end to it or atleast get it to more manageable levels. As these things start happening I still think they will resort to places like the Philippines and or other easy targets where there are large crowds.
Lousy situation!


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Jet Lag said:


> I was more or less excluding those countries and not wanting to single them out. But even there, they are feeling the serious effects of their lax policies. Thing will change but it's gonna take a worldwide commitment and participation to put an end to it or atleast get it to more manageable levels. As these things start happening I still think they will resort to places like the Philippines and or other easy targets where there are large crowds.
> Lousy situation!


Its a crazy world for sure. I'm concerned what sort of world my grandchildren have to look forward to. My home country England has not been targeted as badly as some other countries in Europe, but I'm guessing its only a matter of time.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

hogrider said:


> Its a crazy world for sure. I'm concerned what sort of world my grandchildren have to look forward to. My home country England has not been targeted as badly as some other countries in Europe, but I'm guessing its only a matter of time.


Yep, I'm from the US and wonder the same thing. Humanity has been around for a long time and suspect it will continue. Would be a sorry world though if those animals turned the it the way they want it. Even then, the killing would not stop as they would divide and try to kill each other off. Pure evil.


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## Donwarner87 (Jan 18, 2016)

hogrider said:


> Its a crazy world for sure. I'm concerned what sort of world my grandchildren have to look forward to. My home country England has not been targeted as badly as some other countries in Europe, but I'm guessing its only a matter of time.


I think it it's the type of refugees allowed into European countries. Not religion issue, but just Like gangs in cities. They are just thugs. As far As France, the Taliban and Al Qaida have a long history of hate towards then. My brother was on charge of the team that was trying to get to the French sliders that were slaughters a number of years ago in Afghanistan. They obviously didn't make it to them, but the French parliament authorized 1500 more troops to Afghanistan. Also that same day, they French annihilated the town that the Taliban were from and I mean every man women and child. That was the first time my brother cared for the French. They get p*ssed and they act. 
It is total madness in the world today unfortunately and no one has the answers. Just pray your families are safe.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> I was more or less excluding those countries and not wanting to single them out. But even there, they are feeling the serious effects of their lax policies. Thing will change but it's gonna take a worldwide commitment and participation to put an end to it or atleast get it to more manageable levels. As these things start happening I still think they will resort to places like the Philippines and or other easy targets where there are large crowds.
> Lousy situation!



I agree whole heartedly. Terrorism is currently rampant most everywhere...however...as the world, (someday), "finally" unites together in this fight and makes appropriate policy changes, it will become more and more difficult for the terrorist organizations to hit developed countries very hard.

What will happen is as Jet Lag said...do the terrorists want to hit developed nations? YES! Of Course...But if they can't, they "WILL" hit any target they can find just to disrupt things any way and any where they can. And with that said...places like large population centers and gathering places such as Malls and Shopping Centers and Movie Theaters in smaller undeveloped third world countries like the Philippines, or Thailand, etc. will become targets for sure.

If they cannot hit westerners in their home countries, they will hit us when we are on vacation in some tropical island paradise while laying on the beach or having a nice lunch in an open street cafe. How many beach resorts and restaurants have been hit in the past year or two?

In recent months we have already seen increased terrorist organizational activity in parts of Indonesia and the Southern Philippines. The potential problem is already here! The CIA has listed Southeast Asia as the "most" probable area for the growth of terrorist organizations according to a recent report on CNN.

AND We have already seen what the real terror is in the future...large well organized attacks are not the only thing to worry about! Small one or two man teams can virtually go undetected and ALL of the security experts agree that these little single man operations like the Night Club in Florida or the Police in Dallas or the recent attacks on Turkey's Airport or Paris and Belgium...these types of attacks cannot be stopped because it is near impossible to see them coming.

One or two radical people with a vendetta and a gun and there is no stopping these kinds of attacks on our society.

The world will NEVER completely eliminate terrorism but as Jet Lag pointed out...at least it can be kept in check and manageable...that unfortunately is the best we can ever hope for in our future.

Here in the Philippines we see security guards everywhere but are they prepared or trained to handle situations like this? NO!!!!!

Every time I go to the big Mall of Asia and I see the guards checking EVERY bag and backpack that comes in the door...I think, what a waste! I could easily get a gun inside because these guards only go through the motion and do not really look inside every bag...or they just glance into the bag or backpack and do not look down into the bottom. A person could easily lay a gun down in the bottom and then lay a bunch of stuff on top of it and the guards will NEVER see it AND the bags DO NOT go through the metal detector! The bags go around the outside of the metal detector to the guard standing at the side...

AND baby strollers and wheelchairs are not even checked at all...they are brought around through a separate door away from security! Do you know how many explosives or guns you can hide in a wheelchair or baby stroller? Who in their right mind will force a feeble little old disabled lady in a wheelchair to stand up to check and see what is really under her seat? Who in their right mind will wake up that cute little sleeping baby to see if there is a cache of explosives in that baby stroller?

The same with every other convenience store or fast food restaurant in the Philippines...they ALL have security guards but most of them do not even carry a gun, (and probably should not). Most of them do not even seem to be well trained or in very good physical conditioning. This certainly gives the general public here a false sense of security that is sure to catastrophically fail when the time comes.

It is not a question of *"IF"* an attack happens here or anywhere...it is unfortunately only a matter of *"WHEN"* and *"WHERE"* it will happen.

DON'T THINK IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE!

Our very best ally...vigilance...keep your eyes open and be aware of your surroundings and it certainly does not hurt to live somewhere away from all the potential "targets"! And when visiting areas where large groups of people gather...try going in the off hours when the crowds are smaller and the target is not as appealing to these terror groups who want a big bang for their efforts.

As always...Be careful out there...


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Cebu Citizen said:


> It is not a question of *"IF"* an attack happens here or anywhere...it is unfortunately only a matter of *"WHEN"* and *"WHERE"* it will happen.


Fully agree. You also make a very good point in the apparent amount of security by appearance when in actuality it is quite lax.

Fred


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

How many times have we seen bags left in public places here? I have, a number of times. In Britain it's public awareness of such things (history of IRA bombing) plus the spooks, probably the main factor, which have kept incidents to a minimum since 2005.

Here, the public are certainly not aware. The quality of the intelligence services is difficult to assess - but with both the NPA and MIndanao to deal with one wonders if they could cope with an ISIS organised or inspired campaign here?


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

Interesting to get a historical perspective on terrorism through the main themes of Joseph Conrad's novel The Secret Agent, set in 19th Century London. The terrorist act in the plot is loosely based on a real incident. The book has recently been excellently serialised by the BBC in 3 parts and is available on their iPlayer or you can download from torrents.


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