# Retirement to Murcia region



## Mike8180 (Jun 14, 2017)

I would like an up to date answer regarding the minimum required to comfortably retire to Spain.

I would be purchasing a property so no mortgage and an annual income of approx €22000 to live on.

Thanks in anticipation for the answers.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

How long is a piece of string?

Is your 22,000€ net or gross? 

Will you be living in the city?

The answer is.......*IT ALL DEPENDS!!!* Your understanding of "comfortable" may well be very different from someone else.

For me, I would struggle to live comfortably on that figure, but I'm sure there will be those who would disagree. It is a question only you will be able to answer, once you have lived here a while.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Blanco53 said:


> How long is a piece of string?
> 
> Is your 22,000€ net or gross?
> 
> ...


Whereas that'd do me for 3-4 years.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

One way of looking at it, is..... Would it be enough to secure a retirement visa, if after Brexit, one is required? 

The answer is 'not quite'.


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## Michael Kelly (May 30, 2017)

22k net is a lot more than most people in Murcia earn. With no rent or mortgage, you should be fine.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Michael Kelly said:


> 22k net is a lot more than most people in Murcia earn. With no rent or mortgage, you should be fine.


It's a lot more than most of my Spanish friends earn.. But then most British immigrants wouldn't like to be living in a small piso in the town centre in a not very attractive apartment block...or in a rundown campo finca.
Most of my Spanish friends don't eat out regularly, dread the water and electricity bills, an urgent dental appointment or a necessary car repair. 
That's not the kind of retirement most UK immigrants to Spain want.

The 22k euros is I'm guessing based on the current exchange rate. We don't know how many people that 22k euros has to cover.
But currently it's an income of lessthan 2k a month and may well shrink if the £sinks again.
That may have to cover IBI, house repairs and maintenance, car repair and maintenance, possible future health insurance depending on Brexit negotiations, tax deducted, utility bills, replacement of domestic items, dental care and so on....before you put food on the table.

So much depends on your expectations and the kind of lifestyle you wish to enjoy.
And of course on the kind of Brexit the UK manages to negotiate.....


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I think you could manage on that amount but it depends where you live. In our small village costs are less than on the coast so going for a coffee or menu of the day is not a big expense. Our water bill is cheap but electricity not so. The council tax equivalent is a lot less than the UK but so is our income ! It wouldnt cover many 'extras' in my opinion nor allow you to save much for a rainy day. Its a really difficult one to answer and as other posters have commmented who knows how the excahnge rate will fair and the requirements to live in Spain post exit of the EU. Good Luck and hope your plans work out ;-)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Duplicate, Mods please delete, thanks


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> We've spent a lot more now we both work at the dog rescue perrera. We run two cars as we don't always go at the same day or time and always take dog treats with us for the shelter dogs, sometimes cooked rice and chicken. Then there's our own two dogs...
> Fuel bills have doubled to over 120 euros a month for the two cars. WE couldn't have done that on a tight budget.
> 
> But it's our choice, the way we want to live here. That's why it's very difficult to tell people what it will cost to live here.
> So many variables - size and location of house/flat, lifestyle, exchange rate....and then things you don't expect, both bad like repairs, dental work, and good, like our decision to work for an animal charity plus my involvement in local political life, none of which I anticipated when we arrived here nine years ago


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

So much depends on the type of lifestyle you envisage. If you are always eating out, down the bar every day, lunchtime and evening, run a fuel hungry car, take several holidays a year and more, then, you will not manage on that amount. We (3 adults and two small dogs can manage reasonably well on my OAP plus a bit more now that the pound has devalued, BUT, we live in a village away from the high life and the costas prices. A new three bedroomed flat with all new appliances, lift and a good view will set you back €250 per month here.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Definitely a question of lifestyle expectations, and, of course, the exchange rate will always be an issue D). However, I can't see why a single person owning their own property would not be able to live relatively comfortably on that amount in Spain, given it's certainly possible in France where most costs are apparently higher.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

gus-lopez said:


> Whereas that'd do me for 3-4 years.


Assuming that the 22,000€ is after tax (and that is a big assumption), what you appear to be saying is that you can live "comfortably" on 460€ to 610€ a month.

Clearly, our ideas of "comfortable" are very different!!!!!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Blanco53 said:


> Assuming that the 22,000€ is after tax (and that is a big assumption), what you appear to be saying is that you can live "comfortably" on 460€ to 610€ a month.
> 
> Clearly, our ideas of "comfortable" are very different!!!!!!


As our capacity for arithmetic.

22k a year according to my calculator gives 1833 euros monthly.
I expect you meant 460 euros a week.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> As our capacity for arithmetic.
> 
> 22k a year according to my calculator gives 1833 euros monthly.
> I expect you meant 460 euros a week.


ahhh but gus said it would last him four years.....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Some people in Spain do of course live on that amount....I think our dogs cost us roughly that, everything taken into consideration.

It helps when posters reference the posts to which they are responding, doesn't it....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> ahhh but gus said it would last him four years.....


Gus said 3-4 years so taking the more optimistic route 3 years is 7.333€ per year or 611€ per month. The OP said there would be no rent or mortgage and providing there is no extravagant lifestyle and the accommodation is in an inland village, that would be do-able.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

mrypg9 said:


> As our capacity for arithmetic.
> 
> 22k a year according to my calculator gives 1833 euros monthly.
> I expect you meant 460 euros a week.


I know exactely what I meant and my maths skills are fine.......sadly it appears your reading/comprehension skills are in need of a little attention.

.....and you with all your experience too. Who would have thought?!!! A real Sandy Brown moment!!!

And having read your toe curling response.......I did "reference the posts to which they are responding", I quoted in the post: "Whereas that'd do me for 3-4 years" I'm not sure what more I could have done. But hey what can you do with folk who have their own rather sad agenda?


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

baldilocks said:


> Gus said 3-4 years so taking the more optimistic route 3 years is 7.333€ per year or 611€ per month. The OP said there would be no rent or mortgage and providing there is no extravagant lifestyle and the accommodation is in an inland village, that would be do-able.


Is "do-able" ..........comfortable?

My point for highlighting the figure 460€ to 610€ a month is that there will be folk reading this in the UK (or elsewhere) and think they can live "comfortably" in Spain on that sort of income. I'm pleased that gus can live on this figure....but I would suggest that there are many (including me) who can't.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Blanco53 said:


> Is "do-able" ..........comfortable?
> 
> My point for highlighting the figure 460€ to 610€ a month is that there will be folk reading this in the UK (or elsewhere) and think they can live "comfortably" in Spain on that sort of income. I'm pleased that gus can live on this figure....but* I would suggest that there are many (including me) who can't.*


Well that's your problem then isn't it? There are those of us who aren't profligate spenders who can live "comfortably" on that sort of figure. Obviously there are those who are wasters not only of money but also the world's resources who might have difficulty in just about managing rather that living comfortably on 20k€ per week let alone per annum.


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## Michael Kelly (May 30, 2017)

I used to be a very free spender until I became unemployed for 6 months. During that time I learned the value of a euro.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Well that's your problem then isn't it? There are those of us who aren't profligate spenders who can live "comfort
> tably" on that sort of figure. Obviously there are those who are wasters not only of money but also the world's resources who might have difficulty in just about managing rather that living comfortably on 20k€ per week let alone per annum.


It's all relative....professional form fillers may be a high earners, who knows??

Point is, there are far too many variables to be able to give an accurate response.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

baldilocks said:


> Well that's your problem then isn't it? There are those of us who aren't profligate spenders who can live "comfortably" on that sort of figure. Obviously there are those who are wasters not only of money but also the world's resources who might have difficulty in just about managing rather that living comfortably on 20k€ per week let alone per annum.


No, it's not my problem at all.

The figures being quoted were "460€ to 610€ a month". At the lower end that represents over 40% of my monthly utility commitments. It would leave 270€ to feed myself, run a car, insure my property, and provide a buffer for emergencies.

If you regard people who spend more than this as "profligate spenders" then that is your opinion......but I would suggest you would be in a minority.

Just because folk like to live "comfortably" they don't need to be lectured about "there are those who are wasters not only of money but also the world's resources". 

The more substantive point is that if you are planning to move to Spain, and "you are normal" and want to live comfortably you will need rather more than the 460€ to 610€ a month suggested by some of our rather more "eccentric" contributors!!


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

mrypg9 said:


> It's all relative....professional form fillers may be a high earners, who knows??
> 
> Point is, there are far too many variables to be able to give an accurate response.


Particularly for those who are in urgent need of comprehension and active reading lessons!!!!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

To be fair that amount is less than social security in Australia, even here that is not exactly what I would call comfortable. Doable possibly but hardly comfortable.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Doable and comfortable are all subjective. I personally wouldn't base a move to Spain on what people on a forum say they can or can't live on. 

We could live on 22K, we actually live on a lot less,however we could happily live on a lot more but we are comfortable, we live off grid, no bills, we do have a car, we do travel back to the U.K. to go and visit family. We are not big spenders, neither do we deny ourselves. It's all about what type of lifestyle needed. 

Before we came for the years preceding we wrote down everything we spent money on, from the food bill to a newspaper or coffee.... it's an eye opener. Once we ruled out mortgage payments and the poll tax, it was clear we could live here in Spain. People say living in Soain is cheap, no doubt there are aspects that are, but equally there are aspects that are not.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think it's an odd question, tbh. I already know I can't afford to live in Manhattan, Hampstead or the Cote d'Azur.
As the saying goes, if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it.
The cost of living in terms of what is affordable can change so dramatically...was it a year ago the rate of exchange was £1=1.42 euros? Someone on a fixed income of £2000 a month would have lost several hundred euros a month over the course of the year, with fluctuations.

When people say 'I can't live on x euros a month' it's basic ********. I don't have to live on 22k euros a year but I probably spend much less than that (although OH crashing the LandRover in a ditch to avoid a stray dog set me back 3k euros earlier this year). Baldi lives quite well on his 600 euros or so a month.
And as Mike Kelly pointed out, a euro is a lot when you're unemployed.

We had dinner this week with a couple who live in Antwerp -one works in the diamond trade - who own a house here and visit a couple of times a year. They enjoyed their stay so much this time that they are considering very early retirement. What may well make their minds up for them is the fact that so much of what makes Spain good for them is free.....sea views, walks in the Sierras, just chilling on the terrace, walking around the casco antiguo of Estepona and spending a couple of euros on a coffee.

Of course there are still unavoidable expenses of the kind I mentioned in an earlier post and you need to be able to soak them up without sitting outside Mercadona with a begging bowl. But after that, after the essentials, it's down to how you want to live.

I realised today that apart from the basics like fuel, phone and utility bills, I've spent less than 80 euros on 'frivolities' in the past three weeks -0n the dinner with our friends and a couple of second hand books from abebooks for about 9 euros for both. We've not been eating out as much as we used to, too tired from working at the perrera and that's where most of my 'frivolous' money went.
I shall enjoy reading my books by the pool with a cool glass of wine (3 euros a bottle, lasts me three days) walking by the river with the dogs and just sitting and chatting.

The need for flash cars, new clothes and a new phone every six months slowly evaporated as time passed after leaving the UK........


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