# Could we live the dream or are we just dreaming?



## dreamer49 (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi
Im looking for some advice, my husband and are looking into purchasing a property, maybe a cave house in the Grenada or surrounding regions… here is the scenario… 
My hubbys plan is we spend less than 183 days living in Spain, so as to avoid becoming residents and come home to work in Britain for the other months, be it in six month batches or a few months here and a few months there kind of thing… call me the pessimist ( although I'd love it to be possible),I prefer realist… but I’m very concerned that if we look through rose tinted spectacles we could live to regret it deeply..Im trying to do my homework but am not that good at the legal stuff, so thought maybe as you all seem so helpful and friendly from what I’ve read you could offer some guidance as we continue to research..
We would be selling a home here, be buying outright there with the equity and purchasing a cheaper home here to live in for the months we were here and working….
I’m firstly worried how we could be taxed on that? as British citizens registered here would we only be liable for british tax on work ? Im picking up that we need to be careful of the equity on our current home of we sell to move to Spain? 
Also health care? do we need private medical insurance?
We would be coming with our two dogs, so would be travelling by van there and back for work etc… as much as we’d love to become citizens and live there all year round we are 20 yrs from retirement and need to earn to so that isn’t a reality either… 
so does this sound feasible to people living the dream/ or not ? OR do our rose tinted spectacles need removing? Would love to be proved wrong and don’t want to live with regrets, but neither do I want us to walk into even bigger regrets…
Im prepared for the frugal lifestyle that would hold riches elsewhere but am a little worried about being lonely, are there quite a lot of expats living in these more baron regions? 

Any feedback would be much appreciated... and thanks in advance


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dreamer49 said:


> Hi
> Im looking for some advice, my husband and are looking into purchasing a property, maybe a cave house in the Grenada or surrounding regions… here is the scenario…
> My hubbys plan is we spend less than 183 days living in Spain, so as to avoid becoming residents and come home to work in Britain for the other months, be it in six month batches or a few months here and a few months there kind of thing… call me the pessimist ( although I'd love it to be possible),I prefer realist… but I’m very concerned that if we look through rose tinted spectacles we could live to regret it deeply..Im trying to do my homework but am not that good at the legal stuff, so thought maybe as you all seem so helpful and friendly from what I’ve read you could offer some guidance as we continue to research..
> We would be selling a home here, be buying outright there with the equity and purchasing a cheaper home here to live in for the months we were here and working….
> ...


:welcome:

essentially there are two kinds of residency - the 'registering as resident' which Spain expects you to do after 90 days/3 months (at which point you'd need to prove healthcare provision & income, start proceedings for changing your vehicle to Spanish plates, & also your UK EHIC is likely to be refused should you need it, since you wouldn't, as far as Spain is concerned, be on holiday - even if you didn't actually do the paperwork) 

the other is the 182+ days a calendar year tax residency

so as long as you stayed less than 3 months at a time, & less than 183 in a calendar year - you can come & go & not worry about any Spanish paperwork

except for the non-resident tax you pay as a property owner - & you'd need a NIE to buy the property - but that's not an issue & has nothing to do with residency of any kind

so yes - you could live the dream......


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Why not rent at first, then if you don't like the area, or don't like Spain it will make a move a lot easier.

Lots of people come to the country and cannot settle, however a lot more do settle. I would say go for it……………..and good luck.


----------



## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

As Hepa has just said come and rent for a spell (cheap here) and you will still have a home in the UK that is still going up in price.

Ain't we all clever in hindsight.


----------



## Crab eater (Sep 13, 2013)

Nothing ventured - nothing gained !
Try it and see how it goes. Renting the first year would probably be your best bet. You would know if you liked the area you had chosen and give you the chance to look at others.
I would hate to still be in the UK wondering whether we should have given it a go !


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

As well as thinking over the suggestions already made re renting, of course you'd also need to be sure that you could generate enough income (unless you're going to use savings or whatever to supplement your earnings by working for six months of the year in the UK to enable you to pay the running costs of two properties, plus your . As well as what you already pay on your UK home (and standing charges have to be paid whether you're there or not), you'll have all the same things to pay on your Spanish property, plus the non-resident property taxes (but they don't come to a huge amount if you're not contemplating buying an expensive property). Also think about how you would be affecting whatever pension arrangements you have.

Provided all those things stack up, I see no reason why it couldn't work.


----------



## RoxyR (Aug 4, 2014)

I had been coming to the Costa Brava since I was a small child, then a few years ago, started extending my holiday stays, but ended up having to work during the time I was away. 

Cheap Ryanair flights and the internet made that possible. 

Then I rented holiday home out of season in blocks April/May to June/Mid July (the season is only about 6 weeks here) then came back to Catalonia: end of Aug/September to Oct/Nov. I rented for far less than a residential let in the UK and had all bills included.

Last year, I took the plunge and bought a house. I still 'commute' when I need to work in the UK, but also can work online, while I am here.

I have friends who go and 'do a season' for a holiday company from April to September, they are in France this year, then rent their villa for additional income, whilst away. 
Others who were full-time residents, but now without work, go back to the UK for a couple of weeks or a month at a time.
With Ryanair & the internet anything is possible!

Try before you buy though!


----------



## Leper (May 12, 2010)

If you are retired or about to retire, Spain could be the place for you and six months of the year is not a bad length of time to spend here. Rent, rent, rent for about €550 per month for 2 bedroomed accommodation in a good resort. You will have to pay electricity charges also. Why land yourself with Spanish property which might never increase in value?

If you are not about to retire or not retired . . .forget it!


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Leper said:


> If you are retired or about to retire, Spain could be the place for you and six months of the year is not a bad length of time to spend here. Rent, rent, rent for about €550 per month for 2 bedroomed accommodation in a good resort. You will have to pay electricity charges also. Why land yourself with Spanish property which might never increase in value?
> 
> If you are not about to retire or not retired . . .forget it!


*Why?*

Me n the wife are 52 and with luck next year we will be in a position to decide if we want to spend a year or so in Spain living the dream (wouldn't need to work for that time) and then either stay and start looking at business oppertunities or go back to the Uk and buy another business to run until we retire. If we leave it 10 more years we might not be in the position to try both financially or with our health.

I say as long as you don't burn your bridges and you have an exit planned, go for it.
Trouble these days the old adage. "its better to try and fail than to never have tried" has become. "if you can't afford it don't bother"


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Barriej said:


> *Why?*
> 
> Me n the wife are 52 and with luck next year we will be in a position to decide if we want to spend a year or so in Spain living the dream (wouldn't need to work for that time) and then either stay and start looking at business oppertunities or go back to the Uk and buy another business to run until we retire. If we leave it 10 more years we might not be in the position to try both financially or with our health.
> 
> ...


You'll have to be resident and then tax resident as you're staying for a year. Then have the hassle of reversing it if you go back.


----------



## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Barriej said:


> *Why?*
> 
> Me n the wife are 52 and with luck next year we will be in a position to decide if we want to spend a year or so in Spain living the dream (wouldn't need to work for that time) and then either stay and start looking at business oppertunities or go back to the Uk and buy another business to run until we retire. If we leave it 10 more years we might not be in the position to try both financially or with our health.
> 
> ...


Hi Barriej, You are one of the lucky ones inasmuch as you can afford to take a year off and have what is really an extended holiday in Spain. It is quite a dream for you, but the dream will end after your first twelve months in recessionary and corrupt Spain. Believe me the Spanish authorities can tax the livin' daylights out of you. But, you can afford a year of affluence so go ahead.

Even after a year's experience of looking around you will have learnt that you have little or no chance of a decent paying job.

You are probably asking yourself the question:- In spite of Leper's negativity, some people are surviving and living the dream, how come?
Answer:- (a) Some foreigners have set up business years ago and have a base of customers. (b) With the amount of self employed Brits returning to the UK another customer base waiting to be filled has been left behind.

These days "survival" is the only game in town. The rest of Europe is emerging from recession albeit slowly; Spain is descending further and further into the abyss and has not the knowhow or ambition to climb out. You see it pays dividends for the rich to keep the Poor poor.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Leper said:


> These days "survival" is the only game in town. The rest of Europe is emerging from recession albeit slowly; Spain is descending further and further into the abyss and has not the knowhow or ambition to climb out. You see it pays dividends for the rich to keep the Poor poor.


Slightly out of date - Italy is now officially in recession and Portugal has just had to bail out one of it's largest banks. No such developments reported in Spain, growth and exports still increasing although as we are all only too well aware, this has yet to feed through into increasing jobs.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Leper said:


> Believe me the Spanish authorities can tax the livin' daylights out of you.


Only if you've got a massive income!

We retired early and lived here happily for six years without paying any tax, because our income was under the threshold - just as it would have been the UK. The difference is, you can have a much higher standard of living on a low income in Spain.


----------



## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

Barriej said:


> *Why?*
> 
> Me n the wife are 52 and with luck next year we will be in a position to decide if we want to spend a year or so in Spain living the dream (wouldn't need to work for that time) and then either stay and start looking at business oppertunities or go back to the Uk and buy another business to run until we retire. If we leave it 10 more years we might not be in the position to try both financially or with our health.
> 
> ...


I appreciate what you're saying but that's not an argument in favour of buying rather than renting.


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

mike kelly said:


> I appreciate what you're saying but that's not an argument in favour of buying rather than renting.


Didnt mention anything about property. We would rent and so should anyone going anywhere in the world to try a new life.

At the moment even though we have visited the same area for the last 10 plus years I still would not buy there. I'm pretty sure prices will still come down more. In fact rents are cheaper now than last year.

If I were the OP, I would look at a 3 month rent in the winter, only because you very quickly loose your holiday head (only one of our trips has been in the summer) then go back to the Uk for work etc, then take stock of the situation and see how they get on. But thats what I would consider.


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Barriej said:


> Didnt mention anything about property. We would rent and so should anyone going anywhere in the world to try a new life.
> 
> At the moment even though we have visited the same area for the last 10 plus years I still would not buy there. I'm pretty sure prices will still come down more. In fact rents are cheaper now than last year.
> 
> If I were the OP, I would look at a 3 month rent in the winter, only because you very quickly loose your holiday head (only one of our trips has been in the summer) then go back to the Uk for work etc, then take stock of the situation and see how they get on. But thats what I would consider.


As you're spending a year in a Spain, renting,you'll still have to pay income tax on all your worldwide income in Spain, plus you'll have the assets declaration to contend with.
Is it worth it for just a year in Spain?


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

extranjero said:


> As you're spending a year in a Spain, renting,you'll still have to pay income tax on all your worldwide income in Spain, plus you'll have the assets declaration to contend with.
> Is it worth it for just a year in Spain?


Why not? It may not be a year, if all went well we would stay longer. 

That would be right if we had any assets, we have nothing physical like property. All we will have is money and even then its not hundreds of thousands and we wont be thinking of drawing any of our pensions yet. So any tax would be paid on the tiny amount of interest we might get on it here in the UK. Unless I'm wrong and then someone will give me the correct information.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Barriej said:


> Why not? It may not be a year, if all went well we would stay longer.
> 
> That would be right if we had any assets, we have nothing physical like property. All we will have is money and even then its not hundreds of thousands and we wont be thinking of drawing any of our pensions yet. So any tax would be paid on the tiny amount of interest we might get on it here in the UK. Unless I'm wrong and then someone will give me the correct information.


You will have to make an asset declaration for all asset 'classes' with more than 50,000€.

For example, cash as one asset class, pension another, property another etc. etc.

You may not need to pay any tax, but the declaration must be made.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> You will have to make an asset declaration for all asset 'classes' with more than 50,000€.
> 
> For example, cash as one asset class, pension another, property another etc. etc.
> 
> You may not need to pay any tax, but the declaration must be made.


Doesn't this depend on when he times his arrival? For example, if he arrived after 1 July 2015 he would not be tax resident for 2015 and would not, therefore, be required to declare his overseas assets as at 31 December 2015. If he then decided to leave by 30 June 2016 he would not be tax resident for 2016 either.


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> Doesn't this depend on when he times his arrival? For example, if he arrived after 1 July 2015 he would not be tax resident for 2015 and would not, therefore, be required to declare his overseas assets as at 31 December 2015. If he then decided to leave by 30 June 2016 he would not be tax resident for 2016 either.


 I was told this by couple of people, and anyway if we are living in Spain I don't mind complying with the laws that prevail, do the same here through the accountant we use, would do they same thing in Spain. If it means paying tax then I'm happy with that.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Barriej said:


> I was told this by couple of people, and anyway if we are living in Spain I don't mind complying with the laws that prevail, do the same here through the accountant we use, would do they same thing in Spain. If it means paying tax then I'm happy with that.


I feel the same way, Barrie. I shall have to pay tax (quite a lot of it!) on my pension lump sums which I will receive in 2015 and 2016, which would have been tax free had I been resident in the UK when I received them. However, I knew that would be the case before I moved here and still preferred to stop work 10 years early and come to Spain. As Alcalaina said earlier, one can enjoy a good life here on a low (ish) income and having 10 extra years of retirement was worth more to me than the money. I haven't had to pay any tax at all so far during the 8 years I've lived here (having had no income other than interest on savings) so having a "tax holiday" has been nice, but all good things must come to an end!


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I feel the same way, Barrie. I shall have to pay tax (quite a lot of it!) on my pension lump sums which I will receive in 2015 and 2016, which would have been tax free had I been resident in the UK when I received them. However, I knew that would be the case before I moved here and still preferred to stop work 10 years early and come to Spain. As Alcalaina said earlier, one can enjoy a good life here on a low (ish) income and having 10 extra years of retirement was worth more to me than the money. I haven't had to pay any tax at all so far during the 8 years I've lived here (having had no income other than interest on savings) so having a "tax holiday" has been nice, but all good things must come to an end!


That's some savings! If I had to live off the interest on my savings, at the present low rate of interest, it would be in a cardboard box!


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> That's some savings! If I had to live off the interest on my savings, at the present low rate of interest, it would be in a cardboard box!


We haven't lived on the interest on our savings (we'd have starved to death in very short order if we'd tried). We've spent a lot of the capital (some of which will thankfully be replaced by the pension lump sums).

When we first moved we were getting 5.5% pa on instant access deposit accounts. When the rates started to move downwards I moved the funds to fixed rate bonds in Gibraltar and locked into 5% pa for 5 years, and was glad I did. After they matured could only get 3% for a further 3 years, and atm the rates are absolutely rubbish. I am not going to fix for more than 1 year when these mature next January and I get the first lump sum, as I think rates will start to go up before very long, albeit not by very much. I am far too risk averse to put anything into stock market linked investments.


----------

