# Definitely coming now!



## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

Our UK house sold to the first person who saw it, and last week we purchased a villa near Corralejo, Fuerteventura. We aim to move end April. ......I'll try to do some kind of diary, as I imagine some of the points I have asked about and all of the hours of research might be useful to others....even the logistics of moving bratsx2, dogsx2, wifex1 in a landrover to Fuerteventura is worth a post or two!


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

I envy you  we're waiting impatiently for ours to sell so that we can put in some offers.

I will read your posts with interest...good luck with it all


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

Cheers, feel free to pm if there's anything I might be able to answer, same for anyone reading!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jock719 said:


> Cheers, feel free to pm if there's anything I might be able to answer, same for anyone reading!


or even post on the thread - then everyone can benefit


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

Yes, I meant that, but equally if there is something that anyone wants to ask that might be of a more private manner, I don't mind at all answering PM's.... I wasn't being a grumpy old man!...honest!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Jock719 said:


> Our UK house sold to the first person who saw it, and last week we purchased a villa near Corralejo, Fuerteventura. We aim to move end April. ......I'll try to do some kind of diary, as I imagine some of the points I have asked about and all of the hours of research might be useful to others....even the logistics of moving bratsx2, dogsx2, wifex1 in a landrover to Fuerteventura is worth a post or two!


We drove from Prague to Andalucia in a convoy of two vehicles, a LandRover and a Merc and one big dog. It was a most enjoyable experience.
The key to making it a memorable trip for all the right reasons lay in taking it easy, treating the drive as an experience in itself, not just a means to an end.
We booked good, comfortable hotels with highly recommended restaurants, had stops for morning coffee, lunch and afternoon tea and made sure we had short strolls in fresh air before resuming our journey. 
My son and daughter-law accompanied us so driving was shared. My son also made a photographic record of the journey to look back on.
We made good use of motorways and toll roads in the Czech Republic, Germany, France and Spain but chose hotels off the main roads in quiet, picturesque settings. 
It was a really good way of coming to our new home and our furniture etc. was in storage with the removal company in Prague and delivered as soon as we moved out of my son's house and we found a house of our own.


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

Excellent! That's our plan too, I think driving is great just for the sense of having a huge long journey to get to our new home...it's so easy in a plane, it just doesn't feel like going several thousand miles...and, apart from that, it's a cheap way to move all our belongings and dogs!


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## ANNIE100 (Oct 3, 2013)

Jock719 said:


> Cheers, feel free to pm if there's anything I might be able to answer, same for anyone reading!


Already have xx


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Jock719 said:


> Our UK house sold to the first person who saw it, and last week we purchased a villa near Corralejo, Fuerteventura. We aim to move end April...


Be mindful of spanish capital gains tax if you become a fiscal tax resident in Spain in the same tax year you sell your UK home.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

zenkarma said:


> Be mindful of spanish capital gains tax if you become a fiscal tax resident in Spain in the same tax year you sell your UK home.


Jock, I was just looking for this post by zen karma on another thread and I see he's beaten me to it- 

If you sell your house in the UK and become a fiscal resident in Spain (usually after having resided there for 183 days or more) in the same tax year—the hacienda (Spanish equivalent of HMRC) will be after you for capital gains tax on your UK house sale proceeds!

Timing is everything—just make sure you don't become a Spanish fiscal tax resident in the same tax year you sold your UK house. Tax years in Spain run for a calendar year—January 1st to December 31st.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> Be mindful of spanish capital gains tax if you become a fiscal tax resident in Spain in the same tax year you sell your UK home.


That is scary news!!! Is there a link or post where that has been explained fully?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Does this also apply if you are selling your main residence in the UK?


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

We own another property in the UK, and will be taking all reasonable steps to avoid giving any dish to the hacienda this year.....with a bit of judicious management I think we can get the year in without copping for more tax!


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> That is scary news!!! Is there a link or post where that has been explained fully?


What needs to be explained? The Spanish Hacienda treat UK house sale proceeds as unearned income and will treat it as Capital Gains and tax it accordingly. 

The UK HMRC allow capital gains from your principal and main house residence as CGT exempt—the Spanish Hacienda doesn't! Although there is some CGT relief on Spanish house sale proceeds but only if you use those proceeds to purchase another property within a specific timescale. But that does not apply to any proceeds from non-spanish property.

You might find some further information on this here:
Spanish income tax rates 2012 to 2014



Steve.R said:


> Does this also apply if you are selling your main residence in the UK?


I'm not sure I fully understand the question.

Does what apply? If you sell your main UK residence the HMRC treat the gains made as CGT exempt as long as it is and has been your main residence for x number of years. The Spanish Hacienda does not allow any of these gains made to be exempt of CGT—they will tax you on these gains if you are a Spanish fiscal tax resident within the same year you sell your UK residence.

The answer of course is to ensure you do not become a Spanish fiscal tax resident in the same tax year you sell your UK residence.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Jock719 said:


> We own another property in the UK...


I'm not quite sure of the relevance of this.

If you sell a UK house and become a fiscal tax resident in Spain within the same tax year—you will be liable to Spanish CGT on the house sale proceeds.

Regardless of how many houses you own!

I'm glad to hear you're aware of this and have it under control.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> What needs to be explained? The Spanish Hacienda treat UK house sale proceeds as unearned income and will treat it as Capital Gains and tax it accordingly.
> 
> The UK HMRC allow capital gains from your principal and main house residence as CGT exempt—the Spanish Hacienda doesn't! Although there is some CGT relief on Spanish house sale proceeds but only if you use those proceeds to purchase another property within a specific timescale. But that does not apply to any proceeds from non-spanish property.
> 
> ...


I am amazed that this is the first that I've heard of this. What with all the warnings that are issued to you regarding the pitfalls of buying property in Spain, I'm surprised that I've not heard that basically you can't sell up and move to Spain if there is more than 182 days left in the year!!

I really wonder if the Spanish government wants to actually help the housing market recover in Spain sometimes?!?

.....I'm busy working out, that if my house sells, what is the earliest date I could complete on a property????


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

.....July 2nd......must be a lot of sales kick in after then??? hwell:

So what if I sell my house in the uk, buy a villa in Spain before the 2nd of July, but didn't actually move to Spain until after that date (2nd of July)...so therefore not actually living in Spain for more than 183 days, would that mean I'm free from any capital gains tax?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Just re-reading Jock's posts....

He has sold his house, bought a house in Spain, and is arriving in April...but has another property in the uk....

Unless he makes a lot of trips out of the country, so as not to rack up 183 days before the end of December, he's going to be taxed by the sound of it?


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> I am amazed that this is the first that I've heard of this. What with all the warnings that are issued to you regarding the pitfalls of buying property in Spain, I'm surprised that I've not heard that basically you can't sell up and move to Spain if there is more than 182 days left in the year!!


Of course you can sell up and move—you'll just get clobbered with CGT if the Hacienda catches up with you if you you become a Spanish fiscal tax resident in the same year you sell your UK house.

The rules regarding CGT in Spain haven't recently changed, it's always been there but people just ignore it. Up until now it's been easy to avoid because the Hacienda wouldn't know but now the asset reporting laws have been put in place and they have access to HMRC information it's probably far more risky to try and get away with it.

I know I wouldn't want to pay a hefty CGT on the profits I just made from selling my UK house and there's no chance in hell I would let the Hacienda get a sniff of any tax money so by far the safest option is to ensure you do not become a Spanish fiscal tax resident in the same tax year you sell your UK house.

The Spanish authorities are clamping down on this kind of thing now—forewarned is fare-armed so to speak.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> JUnless he makes a lot of trips out of the country, so as not to rack up 183 days before the end of December, he's going to be taxed by the sound of it?


Quite possibly if they catch up with him.

At least he knows now.

It's just too much of a risk to take in my opinion.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

I'm really glad I've found out about this sooner rather than later, and I appreciate the warning. We are impatiently waiting for our house to sell as we have found two possible places we'd like to buy...one especially.

With this information we can now plan any purchase to avoid the CGT....like you say, it is a tax I do begrudge paying (I paid it 12 years ago in the uk and I still wince now!!)

Hopefully if the house sells soon, we would just try to complete after July...if they won't go for that I'll have to get some advice, and do some research.

Thanks for the heads up :thumb:


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> Hopefully if the house sells soon, we would just try to complete after July...


That's your best bet I think—make it clear to your solicitor that you're looking for a completion date no earlier than July. On average it takes about 3 months from offer acceptance to completion, sometimes it can be longer, sometimes shorter but most houses will be 3 months or more. It will only be shorter if it's a relatively simple transaction with either no chain or a very short chain.

So if you accepted an offer on your house at the end of March—that should take you through to early July as completion.

The only other thing I would advise is to not make any firm plans to move until you exchange contracts. This is the point of no return really and the buyer has to put the deposit down at exchange and if they pull out you keep the deposit. Exchange of contracts will usually take place 2-4 weeks prior to completion. 

In chains—all the buyers/sellers pretty much exchange contracts at the same time and then all agree a completion date which is why most of the time is taken up prior to the exchange of contract.

As everyone consistently advised me whilst I was in the process of selling my house—it can still fall through until you exchange contracts! So just relax, be patient and don't get too excited until you exchange contracts!


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

I won't be becoming a fiscal tax resident in this year, I'll be staying at my other house in the UK between visits.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Steve R go the Andalucia forum, then you and the law in Spain.thereis a whole thread on it on there.
On this forum Cap'n Billy usually has the right answer.
Thousands must have moved here without being aware of the cgt, just as you are.wonder what happened about it!


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

That's it really, know about it and avoid it. Make the relevant arrangements for the first year and seek good advice.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

I've been giving this matter a lot of thought after finding out about this situation on here a couple of days ago.....I agree, it's important to seek proper legal advice on this just to make sure I'm covered 

In your case Jock, I know you hope to avoid paying the CGT on the house you've just sold, but if you were to sell your second house in the uk how would you avoid it then?...unless you don't disclose it?


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> I've been giving this matter a lot of thought after finding out about this situation on here a couple of days ago.....I agree, it's important to seek proper legal advice on this just to make sure I'm covered
> 
> In your case Jock, I know you hope to avoid paying the CGT on the house you've just sold, but if you were to sell your second house in the uk how would you avoid it then?...unless you don't disclose it?


I won't be selling it, it's a rather large country house which is staying in the family,its also my UK base.....


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Jock719 said:


> I won't be selling it, it's a rather large country house which is staying in the family,its also my UK base.....


Presumably you'll have to pay imputed income tax on it, and also submit it on the 720 assets declaration?


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

What about this?

I sell my house and use the proceeds to buy a house in Spain, leaving me with no residue. I then become a tax resident in the same financial year.
Am I due for any CGT for the proceeds of the sale that have now been used?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Relyat said:


> What about this?
> 
> I sell my house and use the proceeds to buy a house in Spain, leaving me with no residue. I then become a tax resident in the same financial year.
> Am I due for any CGT for the proceeds of the sale that have now been used?


It appears so yes


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

zenkarma said:


> What needs to be explained? The Spanish Hacienda treat UK house sale proceeds as unearned income and will treat it as Capital Gains and tax it accordingly.
> 
> The UK HMRC allow capital gains from your principal and main house residence as CGT exempt—the Spanish Hacienda doesn't! Although there is some CGT relief on Spanish house sale proceeds but only if you use those proceeds to purchase another property within a specific timescale. But that does not apply to any proceeds from non-spanish property.
> 
> ...



I understand that cgt relief DOES apply to non Spanish property. After all if you are considered to be resident for tax purposes if you are there 183 days then you should be eligible for this concession.
As I understand it, if you sell your UK property and move to Spain, spend all the proceeds on a property there , there is no cgt to be paid if it is bought within 2 years ;if you spend only some of the proceeds on a property, then the remainder will be liable for cgt.
I await Capn Billy's verdict!


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## Jock719 (Nov 7, 2013)

According to my lawyer, that is the case, spend all your pennies from the sale of a UK house on a Spanish house and all is well. Don't spend all your pennies, stay for more than 183 days and you be taxed on the loot you didn't spend......


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

extranjero said:


> I understand that cgt relief DOES apply to non Spanish property. After all if you are considered to be resident for tax purposes if you are there 183 days then you should be eligible for this concession.


That's not my understanding. Spanish CGT relief only applies to a _Spanish property_ sold and the proceeds reinvested into a _Spanish property_ within 2 years. It does not apply to the proceeds of a UK house sale.

And to be able to do this you have to have been a Spanish fiscal tax resident and have lived in the property as a main residence for 3 years.



extranjero said:


> As I understand it, if you sell your UK property and move to Spain, spend all the proceeds on a property there , there is no cgt to be paid if it is bought within 2 years ;if you spend only some of the proceeds on a property, then the remainder will be liable for cgt.


As above. CGT relief only applies to Spanish properties sold and bought again within 2 years. There is no Spanish CGT relief on the sale of a UK property.

If the seller of the property is non-resident, the buyer will pay 97% of the property price at the signing of the deeds. The buyer then has one month to pay the remaining 3% to the Spanish treasury using form 211. This 3% retention is an advance on the capital gains tax that the seller will have to pay later on. *If the seller is a fiscal resident and is selling his main residence (where he has lived more than 3 years) he is not liable for capital gains tax if he reinvests the income by purchasing another main residence within two years.* If only a portion of the income from a property sale is reinvested, then they will get a relief in the form of a percentage up to the total amount reinvested.​
Source: How To Guides - Capital Gains Tax In Spain | Tumbit How To Guide


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