# Spousal visa refused on grounds of financial reasons!! please help! :(



## tibiafibula (Sep 5, 2012)

So I just got my documents back... We were refused because we didnt have a complete 6 months of payslips. It was dumb, but rules are rules, and we can fix that the second time around...

But also, they said that my sponsor didnt make enough money annually. They said we were about 2,000 pounds short of making the financial requirement. I do understand that my spouse, at base pay, makes 2,000 pounds less than the requirement, but we also have about 1,500 pounds in savings, which we had given proof of, and he also makes commission every month, which is stated in his P60. After all the math, we meet and exceed the financial requirements... I feel that they just looked at his base pay and said "nope". 

So, whats the deal? I thought, through all money pulled together, savings and all, if you hit 18,600, you made the requirement. What gives?


----------



## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

tibiafibula said:


> So I just got my documents back... We were refused because we didnt have a complete 6 months of payslips. It was dumb, but rules are rules, and we can fix that the second time around...
> 
> But also, they said that my sponsor didnt make enough money annually. They said we were about 2,000 pounds short of making the financial requirement. I do understand that my spouse, at base pay, makes 2,000 pounds less than the requirement, but we also have about 1,500 pounds in savings, which we had given proof of, and he also makes commission every month, which is stated in his P60. After all the math, we meet and exceed the financial requirements... I feel that they just looked at his base pay and said "nope".
> 
> So, whats the deal? I thought, through all money pulled together, savings and all, if you hit 18,600, you made the requirement. What gives?


I'm so sorry that it didn't work out for you.

If you are using 6 months of pay slips with the same employer, they take the month with the least income (so if he didn't receive the commission for one month then they could only use the base pay - if they didn't have the 6 months of pay slips, then the income would be 0 per year, because one month he didn't get paid). If he did have the commission every month can you appeal and submit the rest of the 6 months of documents?

Also they don't take savings into account unless it is above 16000, so if you were 2000 short a year your savings would have had to be 21,000 (16,000 + 2.5x2000).

I don't really know too much about the appeal process, other than it can take a long time. Others may have more advise.


----------



## tibiafibula (Sep 5, 2012)

So my husband needs to magically make 2,000 more pounds a year....sounds easy! :/ I understand they do this because they dont want to risk me asking for government assistance.... but why wouldn't they have it so that even if I DID try and apply for government assistance, they just shut me down? Not that I would need to....

I guess i'm never going to be able to be with my husband.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

tibiafibula said:


> So my husband needs to magically make 2,000 more pounds a year....sounds easy! :/ I understand they do this because they dont want to risk me asking for government assistance.... but why wouldn't they have it so that even if I DID try and apply for government assistance, they just shut me down? Not that I would need to....
> 
> I guess i'm never going to be able to be with my husband.


....... because the authorities somehow have never found a foolproof way of NOT having to provide benefits to people once they are in the country, legally resident and apply for benefits because they have inadequate income. 

By laying down some rules as to what you need to survive BEFORE you enter the country, this might resolve the problem.,


----------



## Maltoo (Sep 18, 2011)

I don't any any advise since I have not been through this process yet, but hugs:hug: I know all feels like things will never work out. Good luck with your appeal.


----------



## oneonefourone (Sep 5, 2012)

Crawford said:


> ....... because the authorities somehow have never found a foolproof way of NOT having to provide benefits to people once they are in the country, legally resident and apply for benefits because they have inadequate income.
> 
> By laying down some rules as to what you need to survive BEFORE you enter the country, this might resolve the problem.,


Is that really the case? My understanding is that while on probationary periods (ie. now 5 years!), the sponsored applicant actually has NO recourse to public funds or housing assistance. However, the sponsor as a UK citizen does, which is why the financial burden is on them. I assume if the UK sponsor qualifies that what they can't do is prevent the applicant from being considered a dependent for the UK sponsor's claim. I'm just guessing here, but it's misleading to say that once people are resident in a country they are able to access these social supports when in fact they can't.

Ostensibly, they wanted to make the approval process somewhat less discretionary. If you read the government discussions, this is in part how it is framed. They want easy, objective criteria to reject people to severely cut immigration by 2015 and this one is an easy target, justified as preventing immigrants from coming in only to 'sponge off the state'. It's a compelling argument in a climate of a conservative government.

Take heart - all is not lost if you're close to meeting it. You can save for a while and make up the shortfall with savings. No, it's not fair, but unfortunately there is little to be done.


----------



## tibiafibula (Sep 5, 2012)

I definitely understand that, and we do have some options. My husband can pick up a second shift, which will put his income at 19,000... so if he picks up this shift, and saves 6 months of payslips and bank statemens starting from when he picked up this extra shift, would that be sufficient? Even if his p60s would say he made 16000, as those are every financial year and not every financial quarter?

Another option I've been thinking is to apply for a work visa. My mother-in-law works in staffing for the NHS, and I am an experienced nurse. If I had her company sponsor me to work at the hospital would I be able to apply for a work visa? My only concern is that they would see I was refused on a spousal visa and I dont want them to think I'm just weaseling my way into the country any which way I can... I just want to be with my husband :/


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Yes, his overtime shift will help. If in 6 months he earns more than £1,550 for every month, you can apply again under Category A, or if he has a lower month, then wait until your husband has grossed over £18,600 in a given *12-month period*. This would qualify him to sponsor you under Category B (12 months pay which averages £18,600 or more, even if some months are lower than others).

I don't know anything about the appeals process, but if the UKBA's grounds for rejection are correct and your husband's lowest monthly pay was less than £1,550, then they were right in rejecting and your appeal might lead to nowhere other than more stress, more waiting and probably more cost.


----------



## tibiafibula (Sep 5, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Yes, his overtime shift will help. If in 6 months he earns more than £1,550 for every month, you can apply again under Category A, or if he has a lower month, then wait until your husband has grossed over £18,600 in a given *12-month period*. This would qualify him to sponsor you under Category B (12 months pay which averages £18,600 or more, even if some months are lower than others).
> 
> I don't know anything about the appeals process, but if the UKBA's grounds for rejection are correct and your husband's lowest monthly pay was less than £1,550, then they were right in rejecting and your appeal might lead to nowhere other than more stress, more waiting and probably more cost.


I definitely agree with the appeal thing... if it were the income ALONE then maybe... but because of the payslip thing, I understand that that alone is grounds for refusal, so we're just going to have to apply again...

and just so we're on the same page... if he picks up an extra day per week, he did the math so that his income would be 19,000 as a BASE pay, not including his commission. That being said, if he did this extra shift for 6 months, with 6 months of bank statements and payslips, would that be ok? Or would he have to work 6 days a week for a year? Also, could he, at the end of the 6 months, have a letter from his work stating his monthly income and that his annual income would then amount to 19,000pa? Or would he actually have to work for a year at that rate? Its my understanding that you only have to be working at a 18,600pa for six months and have the documents to back it up. Sorry if this is a bit confusing....


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

tibiafibula said:


> I definitely agree with the appeal thing... if it were the income ALONE then maybe... but because of the payslip thing, I understand that that alone is grounds for refusal, so we're just going to have to apply again...
> 
> and just so we're on the same page... if he picks up an extra day per week, he did the math so that his income would be 19,000 as a BASE pay, not including his commission. That being said, if he did this extra shift for 6 months, with 6 months of bank statements and payslips, would that be ok? Or would he have to work 6 days a week for a year? Also, could he, at the end of the 6 months, have a letter from his work stating his monthly income and that his annual income would then amount to 19,000pa? Or would he actually have to work for a year at that rate? Its my understanding that you only have to be working at a 18,600pa for six months and have the documents to back it up. Sorry if this is a bit confusing....


The rules for Category A (6 months pay) and Category B (12 mionths pay) are treated a little bit differently, and that's why they're a tad confusing. 

The danger to watch for under Category A is that NO month must earn less than £1,550 before tax etc (this can be with or without commission, overtime etc). Under Category A, UKBA takes the LOWEST amount earned in the 6 month period as if this was earned EVERY month - so if your husband earned £3,000 every month except one (in which he only earned £500), then UKBA would calculate the 6 months based on £500 EVERY month. If he can consistently keep his gross pay per month over that £1,550, then you can safely apply under Category A.

If however there is some irregularity in his earnings where they can be higher in some months, but dip below £1,550 in other months then, provided the sum total of *12 months* is equal to or over £18,600, then you can apply under Category B. It means waiting 12 months, but at least this allows for occasional short months. Category B only requires that the sponsor earns £18,600 or more overall, and it doesn't matter what the individual month earnings are.

For both, you will need to provide the prerequisite 6 (Category A) or 12 (Category B) months of pay slips, bank statements etc (in addition to P60, signed contract of employment and other documents named by UKBA).

Hope that helps, and very best of luck!!!


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

oneonefourone said:


> However, the sponsor as a UK citizen does, which is why the financial burden is on them. I assume if the UK sponsor qualifies that what they can't do is prevent the applicant from being considered a dependent for the UK sponsor's claim.
> O



I fully agree that the incoming spouse is not (usually) eligible for public funds, however these can be claimed by the sponsor spouse. It is therefore a risk that the sponsor spouse, if not able to come up with a the minimum standard required in order for him/herself and spouse to live an "adequate" life in the UK could revert to claiming benefits which, even if claimed for just the sponsor spouse, will go towards supporting both of them.

The current levels of financial requirements, are based, I believe, on what a couple would reasonably need to live an adequate life in the UK. 

I would not call this policy as being an easy target for the lowering of immigration, but a reasonable expectation that people entering the country can do so with their own resources to maintain themselves.


----------



## oneonefourone (Sep 5, 2012)

Crawford said:


> I fully agree that the incoming spouse is not (usually) eligible for public funds, however these can be claimed by the sponsor spouse. It is therefore a risk that the sponsor spouse, if not able to come up with a the minimum standard required in order for him/herself and spouse to live an "adequate" life in the UK could revert to claiming benefits which, even if claimed for just the sponsor spouse, will go towards supporting both of them.
> 
> The current levels of financial requirements, are based, I believe, on what a couple would reasonably need to live an adequate life in the UK.
> 
> I would not call this policy as being an easy target for the lowering of immigration, but a reasonable expectation that people entering the country can do so with their own resources to maintain themselves.


Crawford, I think we're politically very different people. 

Still, you must recognize that what would be required to live an adequate life in the UK would vary depending on what city you were in. I thought the financial requirement was based at a level such that the UK citizen will not qualify for social assistance. If they cared about your quality of life only, they wouldn't have seen any need to change the old rules, where third party sponsors were allowed, but the rules still ensured the immigrant would not be reliant on public funds. This policy allows for the exclusion of many with easy "no" stamps based on ostensibly objective criteria. Criteria that, in my view (as someone who almost earns double the requirement with a partner earning more than double), is based in anti-immigrant policy with a severe lack of evidence. 

Political ideology aside, the government pledge is to cut net immigration to under 100,000 over the next 2-3 years. It is currently at 250,000. If you think the new rules aren't in some way geared towards this goal, I don't even know what I could say to convince you.


----------



## zineb (Jan 21, 2014)

2farapart said:


> The rules for Category A (6 months pay) and Category B (12 mionths pay) are treated a little bit differently, and that's why they're a tad confusing.
> 
> The danger to watch for under Category A is that NO month must earn less than £1,550 before tax etc (this can be with or without commission, overtime etc). Under Category A, UKBA takes the LOWEST amount earned in the 6 month period as if this was earned EVERY month - so if your husband earned £3,000 every month except one (in which he only earned £500), then UKBA would calculate the 6 months based on £500 EVERY month. If he can consistently keep his gross pay per month over that £1,550, then you can safely apply under Category A.
> 
> ...


thank you for this explication so happy for that , well my husband his in category A and he earns over than 1550 pound in every month ..... but what make me scare that he can not get p60 cus he have just 6 month of work u think it will be ok for that//// nb we have payslips bank statments and letter of employment should be ok ?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Since he has begun his work after the start of the current tax year, he won't have any P60 to produce that covers even part of his current employment, so it's fine.


----------



## zineb (Jan 21, 2014)

Joppa said:


> Since he has begun his work after the start of the current tax year, he won't have any P60 to produce that covers even part of his current employment, so it's fine.


thank you joppa i swear u save people u mak me relaxe now


----------



## UKPS (Dec 24, 2013)

Good luck also.

Out of interest, what if the application ticked Category A AND Category B as sources, for some reason? Perhaps mistake or confusion on the form. This is all quite confusing, I'm sure we can agree, so probably quite easy to do.

If one month is missed under Category A, but Category B 12 months of statements is enough to clear the £18,600, what happens? Do they refuse you under Category A or allow it under Category B?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

They just process according to the category you select. They don't help out the applicant by saying 'While you don't meet the requirements under Cat A you've selected, you actually meet the conditions for Cat B so will issue you a visa on that basis.' If you tick both Cat A and B, it's an incomplete or wrongly-filled application and they can reject it on that basis. Or give you a chance to re-select the proper category.


----------



## nini (Mar 10, 2014)

I was in the same situation. I applied for my husbands spouse vvisa and was earning 16,000 base pay plus commision and had savings of 4 thousand. I was only in the new employment a mmonth and my job before didnt earn that much. We was refuseand went to appeal.. took me 5 mins in the court room to wwin the home office didnt even talk. I am 8 months pregnant hohowever so maybe that had an impact. I won under immigration rules something to do with mm. So dont lose hope.


----------



## John2015 (Mar 3, 2015)

*My Spouse Visa was refused financially*

Dear members,

Probably I'm having my nightmare after filed my spouse visa which was refused for financial reasons. Now I need to apeal and wonder which is the best approach to deal this problematic situation. My current employment contract ends on 15 August 2015, I have two kids studying in Hong Kong and made applications to go back to UK. 

The refusal reply was: 
Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirments as defined in paragraph E-ECP.3.3. Your application for entry clearance as a partner is refused because you do not meet the income thresold requirement under FM and / or the related evidential requirements under Appendix FM-SE. Appendix FM states that only evidence relating to the applicant's and sponsors circumstances at the date of the application and the specified period immediately prior to it can be considered. The six month period, or the most recently dated part of it, must be dated no earlier than 28 days before the date of the application. I am not able to take into account your own previous earnings outside the UK, any potential employment you have available to you in the UK, or any offers of finanical support from third parties.

You have stated on your Appendix 2 form that you intend to meet the Financial Requirement through Category (A). You are applying alone and are therefore required to show that you meet the income threshold of GP 18,600.

You have stated that your husband is currently working overseas and have submitted evidence showing he is earning GP 60,000 per year in HK and he has been employed in this way for over 6 months. However, when asked whether your sponor has been offered a job in the UK which is due to start within three months or his return to the UK, you answered no.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You need a job offer in UK earning at least £18,600 and starting within 3 months of return to UK. Without it you don't meet the financial requirement. 
So you were correctly turned down and, unless you just forgot to include details about UK job offer, it's pointless to appeal as they won't accept evidence arising after your original application. So your choice is to get a UK job offer for your partner and reapply.


----------



## John2015 (Mar 3, 2015)

*Refusal of Entry Clearnace*

Thanks for your reply Joppa


Joppa said:


> You need a job offer in UK earning at least £18,600 and starting within 3 months of return to UK. Without it you don't meet the financial requirement.
> So you were correctly turned down and, unless you just forgot to include details about UK job offer, it's pointless to appeal as they won't accept evidence arising after your original application. So your choice is to get a UK job offer for your partner and reapply.


The last two paragraphs mentioned that I have also looked at you and your sponsor's cash savings to see if the income threshold be met through this method. You are required to demonstrate that savings of GP 62,500 have been held for a minimum of six months GP 18,600 X 2.5 (THE PERIOD OF YOUR VISA) + GP 16,000. You have stated you and sponsor hold funds of GP 49,996.39. Therefore, you do not meet the financial requirement through your cash savings.

Given the above, I an not satisfied you meet the financial requirement and I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. (E-ECP.3.1).


----------



## John2015 (Mar 3, 2015)

*Any exceptional grounds*

I am wondering if there is any ground for exceptional circumstances since my rental agreement will expire on 14 July 2015, my employment contract will expire on 15 Aug 2015, my spouse does not have a job, I have 2 little kids at the primary level, and there is 
prospect of renewing my employment. Ultimately, I must go back my two kids who are British citizens like me and my spouse of BNO end up no where!

Any advice if the above can formulate some sort of exceptional circumstances for appeal.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No or little chance. They only take into account compassionate grounds such as serious illness for applicant/sponsor or close family member whom you have to care for. And they aren't allowed any wriggle room for meeting the financial requirement.


----------



## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No there are no allowances made. You must meet the requirements or will be rejected, nobody is stopping you and any British children returning.


----------

