# driving in UK with US license on spouse visa



## shirleyb (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm currently residing in the UK on a spouse visa. I'm American and my husband is English. I know that I can drive on my US license for 12 months but is it necessary to get a UK license? I arrived in August 2008 and I will be visiting the US in May 2009 for one month. When I return back to the UK, does this give me another 12 months to drive on my US license or does the 12 months start from the date that I got my spouse visa which would be August 2008? Eventually, we will be moving back to the US in December 2009 (at the end of this year) so I don't know if I really should bother getting a UK license for 4 months. We purchased a car in the UK and currently have international car insurance underwritten by a UK company because our stay is temporary. 

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!


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## LITTLE LEO (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi! I too am an american married to an englishman , and i have goent hrough this all in the last few months. The 12 month period regarding your american dl refers to the date that you first arrived in the uk, or the date that your spouse visa was stamped for the first time. If you are goign to be going back to the states in a fewmotnhs i don't knwo if it is really worth the hassell or the cash to get a british d.l. There is also the fact that when you go back home to the states, if your american d.l has been exchanged you will have to go through all that " wonderful" time spent a tthe dmv gettign a new american one! Just a thought. On another subject , can i ask you a question? Was it difficult to get your hubby over to the states? My husband can't wait to move to america but i am not sure about the immigration laws or if he has to get a green card? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
melissa


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

LITTLE LEO said:


> On another subject , can i ask you a question? Was it difficult to get your hubby over to the states? My husband can't wait to move to america but i am not sure about the immigration laws or if he has to get a green card? Any advice would be appreciated.


How long have you been in the UK? I ask because it makes a difference to how long you will wait for your husband's visa to the US.


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## LITTLE LEO (Apr 29, 2009)

fatbrit said:


> how long have you been in the uk? I ask because it makes a difference to how long you will wait for your husband's visa to the us.


hiya! I have been here almost 2 years but he has obviously been here his whole life. We are not looking to move for another coulpe years but i thought it couldn't hurt to get more inof now. What do you think?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

LITTLE LEO said:


> hiya! I have been here almost 2 years but he has obviously been here his whole life. We are not looking to move for another coulpe years but i thought it couldn't hurt to get more inof now. What do you think?


So you can file the initial petition directly with the consulate and this shaves 3 months off of the process. The visa you'll want is the IR1 immigrant visa and the paper pushers take 6 months over getting their act together. Do NOT apply for a K3. The visa gives him permanent residency (green card) from entry with the right to live and work in the US.

As you'll have been in the UK for 3 years or more by the time this all happens, you should consider naturalizing before you leave. Then that's one of you who's finished with the visa malarkey and cost for good.


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## LITTLE LEO (Apr 29, 2009)

fatbrit said:


> so you can file the initial petition directly with the consulate and this shaves 3 months off of the process. The visa you'll want is the ir1 immigrant visa and the paper pushers take 6 months over getting their act together. Do not apply for a k3. The visa gives him permanent residency (green card) from entry with the right to live and work in the us.
> 
> As you'll have been in the uk for 3 years or more by the time this all happens, you should consider naturalizing before you leave. Then that's one of you who's finished with the visa malarkey and cost for good.


my spouse visa expires this september , 2 years to the day that i landed at heathrow, so we have plans to get my ilr ( indefinate leave to remain) then, but i refuse to give up my american passport. I think by the time we get around to thinkign about making a move we will definately leave enough time to allow for the never ending trail of paperwork. . . . Beurocrats!  will he have to have a job lined up laready and will he have to get a work sponsor?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

LITTLE LEO said:


> my spouse visa expires this september , 2 years to the day that i landed at heathrow, so we have plans to get my ilr ( indefinate leave to remain) then, but i refuse to give up my american passport. I think by the time we get around to thinkign about making a move we will definately leave enough time to allow for the never ending trail of paperwork. . . . Beurocrats!  will he have to have a job lined up laready and will he have to get a work sponsor?


You don't give up your American passport if you naturalize as a UK citizen. As far as the US is concerned, you're still a US citizen unless you formally renounce it in front of a US consular official. The same goes for your UK husband were he to naturalize as a US citizen down the road.

His sponsor is you -- and you'll either have to have income or capital. If you have no kids, the capital required is approximately $60k or a US income of $20k/year. It's more with kids. If you fail to meet the requirements, you can find a co-sponsor.


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## izzysmum04 (Nov 26, 2007)

shirleyb said:


> I'm currently residing in the UK on a spouse visa. I'm American and my husband is English. I know that I can drive on my US license for 12 months but is it necessary to get a UK license? I arrived in August 2008 and I will be visiting the US in May 2009 for one month. When I return back to the UK, does this give me another 12 months to drive on my US license or does the 12 months start from the date that I got my spouse visa which would be August 2008? Eventually, we will be moving back to the US in December 2009 (at the end of this year) so I don't know if I really should bother getting a UK license for 4 months. We purchased a car in the UK and currently have international car insurance underwritten by a UK company because our stay is temporary.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!


*Hi, Shirley! You will still be able to drive on your American licence until August of this year. After that, it would be illegal for you to drive unless you have your full British drivers licence. If you are planning on moving back in December of this year, unless you absolutely positively need to drive, I wouldn't bother going to all that expense of lessons, and paying for the test, to only be able to drive for a few months. It is really difficult to pass the test without having driving lessons (which are costly by the way) over here. I have had my drivers licence and have been driving in the states for over 20 some years, but still needed the driving lessons over here. Most of my expat friends have taken lessons, those who didn't did not pass the first time around. They had to go through the expense of paying to take the test again, plus lessons the 2nd time around. Good luck in whatever you decide.*


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## shirleyb (Apr 28, 2009)

izzysmum04 said:


> *Hi, Shirley! You will still be able to drive on your American licence until August of this year. After that, it would be illegal for you to drive unless you have your full British drivers licence. If you are planning on moving back in December of this year, unless you absolutely positively need to drive, I wouldn't bother going to all that expense of lessons, and paying for the test, to only be able to drive for a few months. It is really difficult to pass the test without having driving lessons (which are costly by the way) over here. I have had my drivers licence and have been driving in the states for over 20 some years, but still needed the driving lessons over here. Most of my expat friends have taken lessons, those who didn't did not pass the first time around. They had to go through the expense of paying to take the test again, plus lessons the 2nd time around. Good luck in whatever you decide.*


Thanks for the advice. What would happen if I got caught driving on an "expired" license? Would they impound the car due to my license even though I have insurance coverage?


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## shirleyb (Apr 28, 2009)

LITTLE LEO said:


> On another subject , can i ask you a question? Was it difficult to get your hubby over to the states? My husband can't wait to move to america but i am not sure about the immigration laws or if he has to get a green card? Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> melissa


Thanks for the advice about driving in England. My husband already had his green card before we got married so I'm afraid I can't give you any advice on the immigration process from my personal experience. However, I used to work as a HR Manager in the US and dealt with lots of employees on work visas. If your husband gets sponsored by US company, then I can give you some advice on that. Thanks.


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## izzysmum04 (Nov 26, 2007)

shirleyb said:


> Thanks for the advice. What would happen if I got caught driving on an "expired" license? Would they impound the car due to my license even though I have insurance coverage?


*Not exactly sure, but got this from this website I googled. I know this is for people who are caught driving with an expired UK drivers licence, but I can't imagine the penalties would be much different for a resident caught driving on an expired foreign drivers licence. 

"Driving without a valid driving licence can result in a fine of up to £1000, and between three and six penalty points on your licence. Your car can also be seized and crushed."

My advice would be not to risk it!*


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

shirleyb said:


> Thanks for the advice. What would happen if I got caught driving on an "expired" license? Would they impound the car due to my license even though I have insurance coverage?


The chances of getting caught driving without a vaid licence are slim -- BUT if you should have the misfortune of having a serious motoring accident your insurer could claim that you were not insured under the policy. The insurer might have to pay the claim of an injured party but could sue you to reclaim the money. 

If the car is in your name then the chances of being caught out are greater. And you could not get a London borough parking permit except temporarily.

Experienced drivers normally need at least 2 lessons before taking a UK road test; more is better. Those who fail the first time around seem to fail over roundabouts (nonexistent in the USA) and mirror observation. Passing rate the first time is around 45%. 

You were correctly advised that your licence is good for 12 months from your first entry in your status; also that you should be naturalised if convenient to do so. 

It is usually advisable to try for a UK licence during those 12 months because even though you need a Provisional licence you are not bound by its normal rules (no L plate; allowed to drive on motorways) during that time.


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## izzysmum04 (Nov 26, 2007)

*Your chances of being caught might be slim, but it is against the law over here, as it is in the US. Think of it this way, would you drive in the US on your expired licence? I just feel when you are living in another country it is best to respect their laws. My advice would still be not to risk it.*


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

izzysmum04 said:


> *Your chances of being caught might be slim, but it is against the law over here, as it is in the US. Think of it this way, would you drive in the US on your expired licence? I just feel when you are living in another country it is best to respect their laws. My advice would still be not to risk it.*


Unfortunately, and this is true both of the USA and the UK, around 2/3 of those whose licences are revoked -- typically for DUI but it could be for anything -- continue to drive at least sometimes. They are usually then driving uninsured, and the consequences can be tragic. One could easily be bankrupted -- and English bankruptcy is far more severe than its American counterpart.

Even more common is driving with facially valid documents which are not in fact valid, and that is true in both countries as well. And both countries refuse to licence illegal immigrants/overstayers/asylum seekers, making the problem of uninsured drivers even worse and necessitating uninsured (and in the USA under-insured) driver insurance cover. 

In the EU the Third Motor Insurance Directive stipulates that if you are hit by a car with non-domestic (i.e. here non-UK) plates even if the plates are forged or stolen, the Insurance Bureau of that country has to pay, and insurance cover is unlimited. But if you are not licensed the answer may be different. EU law also dictates most of the rules on driver licensing except that Member States may exchange licences from non-EU/EEA countries if they so desire. (Switzerland, a treaty partner but non-EEA state, has anomalous status.)

The complexity of this means that a traffic policeman not only cannot be familiar with all the 100+ models of valid licences, but he cannot know the arcane rules either. However if your car is registered to you he will realise that a US licence is not valid. Also, if you, for example, exchanged your US licence for a Canadian one and then tried to exchange that one here, DVLA would know because they ask the issuing agency whether you took a test for the licence.

MOTs, insurance and tax disc status is now online and available to the police and to camera crews. Cars are liable to seizure if you are uninsured or in irregular status. On the other hand, most enforcement in the UK is by automatic camera and not by police stop, except for DUI. 

It is not for anyone else to tell you what risks you should take, but bear in mind that taking the practical test here is a rite of passage that almost everyone undergoes. It's a nuisance that is true, one made more so in recent years by the detailed requirements of EU law. The UK has always been punctilious in applying EU law even where other member states are lax. Even so, taking the lessons and passing the test -- even assuming 2 or 3 tries are needed -- is cheaper than in many other EU countries. Have a look at the expat forums for those other countries and compare.

I hope that helps.


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## shirleyb (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks for all the information. The car is under my husband's name but the international car insurance names me as the insured and then my husband as an additional driver. Otherwise, the rates would have been really high if we got the car insured here in the UK because I would be considered a new driver. From doing some searches, it looks like I would have to surrender my US license if I get a UK one. I guess this would make my car insurance invalid because then I have a UK license. I think I will resort to public transportation after my 12 months are over. I don't want to take any risks after watching the show Police Interceptors .


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

shirleyb said:


> Thanks for all the information. The car is under my husband's name but the international car insurance names me as the insured and then my husband as an additional driver. Otherwise, the rates would have been really high if we got the car insured here in the UK because I would be considered a new driver. From doing some searches, it looks like I would have to surrender my US license if I get a UK one. I guess this would make my car insurance invalid because then I have a UK license. I think I will resort to public transportation after my 12 months are over. I don't want to take any risks after watching the show Police Interceptors .


It isn't clear what you mean by "international car insurance". 

Under current law, with a US licence you are allowed to drive in any country other than the UK when visiting as a tourist. If you are covered by a policy of insurance in that country then it is safe for you to drive there.

But all policies limit cover to persons licensed to drive. After 12 months you are not licensed in the UK unless you have a Provisional licence and drive within its terms; and as I understand it normal consumer UK insurance policies list the allowed drivers. There may be UK insurers (other than those covering hire cars and instructors' vehicles) that allow anybody to drive with permission (as US policies do) but the only UK insurer that routinely issues such policies AFAIK is USAA Ltd -- and they sell policies only to their members, basically active and retired US military and diplomatic personnel, their dependants and descendants [sic]. I understand that other insurers charge more when a provisional licenceholder is listed on the policy -- but probably not when that licenceholder is validly licensed in another country during the 12-month period.

The basic rule of insurance law is never to mislead your insurer. In the UK, except where EU law provides otherwise, a policy (life or casualty) is void in the event of a material misstatement. That UK insurance rule is one of the strictest in the world.

You do not surrender a foreign licence unless you "exchange" it. For one thing the DVLA does not know that you have a foreign licence; for another it is irrelevant to the UK except for the issue I mentioned earlier about banned drivers driving anyway. There is EU law to the effect that no person may hold more than one EU licence, with a few exceptions by grandfathering: those who held two or more licences that subsequently fell within the purview of the law may keep them (e.g. Accession States). It happened that I had a French licence at the time I applied for a UK one, but had mislaid it; in any case it was invalid in the UK because I never had to take a French test. So far as I know if I moved back to France I could reclaim it (get a duplicate), but not otherwise. But of course unless I turned in my UK licence I would be in violation of that prohibition on holding two EU licences.

I understand that at least some US states insist on marking any foreign licence you have (and the question is asked in many states if you have a foreign one) "not valid in ___". I also know that Florida issues licences to Canadian sunbirds but not to other undocumented aliens, and that these are specially marked.

But conventional wisdom is that when you get a licence in another country you do not volunteer any information. And if your licence is taken away you try to get a duplicate from the authority that issued it. This is not an issue with US/UK licenceholders. I know at least a dozen persons who hold both sorts, myself included. But then, having lived in a lot of countries, I have more licences than most people.

I am puzzled by "I guess this would make my car insurance invalid because then I have a UK license." It starts to look as if you have US-based insurance with a US firm other than USAA. Any insurance you have on a UK-registered car has to be with a UK-licensed insurer because you need a Certificate of Motor Insurance and the policy has to be recorded in the DVLA's online system in order to get a tax disc. Of course you could be driving in the UK with a US-registered car and US worldwide insurance, but that would be illegal after 12 months unless you are a member of Visiting Forces, etc.

It is true that new residents to the UK pay higher insurance rates although I understand at least some insurance companies will give credit to a foreign insurer's letter attesting to no claims. But remember this: if you cheat on the premiums your policy may be void, so always provide all the facts to your insurer. And your agent, even the AA, acts for you and if they lie on your behalf, even without your knowledge, the policy may be void. (I was at a dinner party once where the person next to me had been denied reimbursement for a stolen car on an AA policy because the AA had failed to report that the car was garaged at a different address within the same city.)

In short: you should not fear going through the tedious process of becoming licensed in the UK. The process has, it is true, become progressively more difficult and expensive over the years; but almost everybody, including the village idiot, eventually passes.


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## PeterR (Jul 3, 2009)

shirleyb said:


> The car is under my husband's name but the international car insurance names me as the insured and then my husband as an additional driver. Otherwise, the rates would have been really high if we got the car insured here in the UK because I would be considered a new driver.


That was not our experience, at least not while we had only one car. As a spouse the fact that my US wife was a "learner" did not make adding her to the insurance expensive at all. I got married in October 2004 to a 22 y/o American so had at least 7 months to go before renewal and as far as I remember Direct Line only charged me about £30 for the 7 months. I was very surprised and also very happy!




shirleyb said:


> From doing some searches, it looks like I would have to surrender my US license if I get a UK one.


Never heard that... Where does it say that? Is that a UK provisional or a UK full licence?

Peter


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## Tokhirjon (Jul 4, 2009)

shirleyb said:


> I'm currently residing in the UK on a spouse visa. I'm American and my husband is English. I know that I can drive on my US license for 12 months but is it necessary to get a UK license? I arrived in August 2008 and I will be visiting the US in May 2009 for one month. When I return back to the UK, does this give me another 12 months to drive on my US license or does the 12 months start from the date that I got my spouse visa which would be August 2008? Eventually, we will be moving back to the US in December 2009 (at the end of this year) so I don't know if I really should bother getting a UK license for 4 months. We purchased a car in the UK and currently have international car insurance underwritten by a UK company because our stay is temporary.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!


check on the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency google it there should be some info


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## kenny 62 (Nov 1, 2009)

My wifes USA licence expired last month ,is there any way she can renew it why she is living here in UK ? IE ).... Embassy etc ? She here on 2 year spouse visa applying for ILR this summer


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

kenny 62 said:


> My wifes USA licence expired last month ,is there any way she can renew it why she is living here in UK ? IE ).... Embassy etc ? She here on 2 year spouse visa applying for ILR this summer


Driving licenses are state issued documents. AFAIK most states now require you to be resident in the state in order to renew your license. They may require some form of "proof" of residence now, though they didn't used to.

I know of expats who return to the US and use the address of a family member in order to go in and renew their driving licenses while visiting. In states that handle renewals by Internet, I believe they will only send the new license to an address in that state.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Driving licenses are state issued documents. AFAIK most states now require you to be resident in the state in order to renew your license. They may require some form of "proof" of residence now, though they didn't used to.
> 
> I know of expats who return to the US and use the address of a family member in order to go in and renew their driving licenses while visiting. In states that handle renewals by Internet, I believe they will only send the new license to an address in that state.
> Cheers,
> Bev


I am in this situation now. I hold Florida and Quebec licenses, both of which are about to expire. I have checked online and by phone and for Quebec I have to go there and be photographed (this happens every 4 years). I have a valid mailing address; they will hand me my renewal on the spot, anytime within 3 months of expiration. If I couldn't go there they can sell me a paper temporary extension.

My Florida license requires proof of residence. The only feasible proof for me (I get no mail at our friend's house there) is a letter that the Supervisor of Elections in my county said (over the phone) that he would gladly give me. I can't renew by Internet because I did that last time.

But I decided not to pay to go to Florida but to exchange my Florida license for a California one since I am visiting there. They seem not to require proof of residence but if they do I will get my (US) credit union to write me a letter, even though my address of record for them is in the UK.

There are special and differing arrangements from state to state; the only constancy is that people covered by the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act never have to travel to their home state. (But if they rely on a letter extension, which some states do, that may cause aggravation in some places. And Virginia, which also extends US Foreign Service Officers licenses on those terms, does so without any document: you only need to prove your status when you get back to Virginia. Try explaining that to a sheriff or the RCMP in the Yukon Territory...)


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