# Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty



## Experimenter19 (May 10, 2019)

Hi,

I've been staying in Spain since early January and am considering staying past 183 days, when it comes up.
But I'm in two minds on actually registering as a tax resident.
-> I don't work in Spain, or own property here, or even rent long term.
-> The only income I currently receive is rental income from my property in UK.
-> I am registered as tax resident in UK, and pay all taxes due there.

I understand there is a taxation treaty between UK and Spain (though I haven't been able to find any details/numbers behind this), so it may be that I would not owe (additional) tax on the UK property anyway, making registering simply an exercise in experiencing painful bureaucracy.
At the same time, some sources suggest I would be taxed on worldwide assets, regardless of the taxation treaty, hence would owe (double) tax on the UK property.
I have not registered for NIE in Spain (as I don't intend to buy a property).
The only thing I've registered for is the health (SIP) card (and when I use it, the UK gets billed).

Apologies for the ramble, I guess my question is :
For someone in my spot, is it a reasonable option to simply stay under the radar, and if I do, how could the authorities possibly find me / fine me / lock me up / execute me?

Cheers.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Experimenter19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been staying in Spain since early January and am considering staying past 183 days, when it comes up.
> But I'm in two minds on actually registering as a tax resident.
> ...


You don't *register* as a tax resident, You are one as soon as you are over 183 days or if your centre of economic interest is in Spain. You don't pay twice, you claim any tax paid in any other places against the tax paid where you are considered to be tax resident.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

No, not reasonable. There are more than enough criminals here who ignore the laws that don't suit them.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

No doubt the best form of advice any new arrival can have is ignore those Expats who's answer
to any taxing question is - _how are they going to know and who's going to tell them ?_

Spain's Agencia Tributaria is already world renowned for bringing International football players and
their managers to book.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Yet another immigrant who wants to leech of society!!


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Experimenter19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been staying in Spain since early January and am considering staying past 183 days, when it comes up.
> But I'm in two minds on actually registering as a tax resident.
> ...


I take it you would be ok with an immigrant doing the same thing you're advocating doing in Spain in the UK then would you?
I often find that the uk immigrants abroad who shout quite loudly about those 'bloody foreigners' in the UK are quite often those who live illegally in EU member states.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Immigrants in Spain don't get benefits do they?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Immigrants in Spain don't get benefits do they?


Some get some, but why should a person from the UK still get the benefits (other than legally transferable ones) when they slope off to Spain and live below the radar while claiming to still be in UK.


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## Experimenter19 (May 10, 2019)

Just to clarify - given that I pay taxes in UK (already stated) and there is a UK-Spain tax treaty with the ability to offset, technically I will be leeching off Spanish society whichever option I take, so apologies in advance


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

This is the taxation agreement between U.K. and Spain. 

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/507409/spain-dtc_-_in_force.pdf

You will see that if you live in spain, income from letting in U.K. is taxable in U.K. but you still need to declare it in spain as there maybe a small top-up tax

The only other income which is taxable ONLY in U.K. is that from Crown Pensions


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Experimenter19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been staying in Spain since early January and am considering staying past 183 days, when it comes up.
> But I'm in two minds on actually registering as a tax resident.
> ...



Answer to last question: yes, hopefully.

What on earth makes you think it is acceptable for you to come to Spain or any other country and flagrantly ignore their laws?

Like many immigrants here with reasonable sterling incomes, I pay tax in the UK and Spain. It costs me to live in Spain because of the extra tax which I wouldn’t have to pay were I in the UK.

So it’s obvious. If I and others in my situation don’t like paying my dues I can **** off back ‘home’. That’s what you should do. You should have registered for an NIE, by the way.


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Isobella said:


> Immigrants in Spain don't get benefits do they?


Nobody has mentioned benefits except you.

And an immigrant in the UK living under the radar wouldn't get benefits either, it would kind of defeat the object of living under the radar wouldn't it.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

The OP has been on other expat forums with this very same question. A wind up merchant me thinks!!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Experimenter 

I am a little confused. 

You say you have S1 medical cover in Spain but do not have an NIE. I believe that is impossible as the NIE is shown on the medical card. Maybe you mean you have not registered on the EU Citizens Register, but do have an NIE.

However, if you do have S1 cover then you have informed DWP that you now live in Spain, a cross reference would show the tax authorities in Spain and UK you have moved here and when you decided to move here.

Looks like you might be on borrowed time.

PS If one lives in Spain, the only tax which is paid in UK is on property let in UK and income on a Crown Pension, and even those must be declared in Spain. All other income, worldwide, is taxable ONLY in Spain. See the Double Taxation Agreement.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/507409/spain-dtc_-_in_force.pdf


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