# Builders



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

What are the usual terms of payment for builders in spain (province of alicante)?

The three builders, i asked, wanted 50% percent upfront and 50% on completion of work. 
Is this the usual?

Anyone know of any good builders here? - And their terms of payment?


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

sara7 said:


> What are the usual terms of payment for builders in spain (province of alicante)?
> 
> The three builders, i asked, wanted 50% percent upfront and 50% on completion of work.
> Is this the usual?
> ...


If you are using a good Spanish builder he will not be likely to ask for money upfront. If, however, you are using a Brit builder, you may well be saying goodbye to any money upfront as others have found out.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

When I used builders (a mixture of spanish and polish in the company I always used), they needed money up front to buy materials. I dont think nationality makes much difference these days tho. I guess its all down to cash flow and work ethics

Jo xxx


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

sara7 said:


> What are the usual terms of payment for builders in spain (province of alicante)?
> 
> The three builders, i asked, wanted 50% percent upfront and 50% on completion of work.
> Is this the usual?
> ...


I know loads of builders but then I have no idea where you are (can you update your profile please).


As said before, most GOOD builders will not ask for money up front but will create a stage-payment plan through the architect (project manager).

I presume that you have all the necessary licences and that if its major works, you have an architect?


----------



## GallineraGirl (Aug 13, 2011)

We live in Alicante Province and use the Spanish Builders in our village. We have never paid any money up front, nor stage payments, even when we had a large garage built. We have lived in the village for 8 years so I suppose we are trusted. They do a brilliant job, work a very long day and never stop for cups of tea...


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

Im in elche in alicante... Not much choice here... Can you give me the contact details of those builders.
Thanks, sar


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

sara7 said:


> Im in elche in alicante... Not much choice here... Can you give me the contact details of those builders.
> Thanks, sar


I could but I doubt they would want to travel that far every day.

Every town has any number of good, Spanish builders - I think you'll just have to keep looking.


What about the licences and the architect? Any good architect will know builders that would never dream of taking money up front.


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

I been looking for 1 year...

I had several quotes...and had decided upon one until he told me the conditions of payment. I then asked 4 of the previous quoters and every one of them had similar terms.. some do travel and im now focusing on finding one by word of mouth so ill have to just keep on trying here.

but thanks...


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

I am looking for names of any builders from province of alicante or murcia


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

*Builders 2*

I need contact details of any builders in Alicante or Murcia province (Preferably english speakin) with fare Terms of Perment (i.e. not 50% up front).


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

*Contractor Terms & Conditions*

I am looking for builders in Alicante or Murcia provinces that have fare conditions of payment - i.e., not 50% up front... 
I need details of such builders (preferably with some english speaking ability).


----------



## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I wonder if you have the handy book that I have. In English it's called the Yellow Pages. Here in Spain it's directly translated to Páginas Amarillas.


----------



## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

I don't think cash up front is unreasonable, after all there are cowboy customers too. If you don't know each other and the builder's expected to buy materials and do the work before getting anything, I think you'll struggle to get anyone serious interested. Check out their references, write up a contract confirming stage payments, and negotiate payment up front based on initial outlay for materials plus time.


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

Like i said.. ive been looking for sometime (i.e. looking..finding..liasing repeatedly for about 9 mths - even i cant believe it). All i've found are either cowboys or 50% up-fronters...

My resources are minimal..so very time consuming running to locutotios and the difficulties in communications etc etc..and my spanish is basic)...
That's why i ask here... 

I asked for help on this forum once before only. I got no help because i was judged badly...i was homeless at the time.. i ended up almost dead from attacks and from starvation.. i'm lucky to be alive..but i got back up..now i own my own home fully paid up but you know what surviving is like for most people in spain ...
I'm struggling just like so many people are here, have nothing left in england even if i wanted to return..
So I'm doing what others do..ie. looking for help and information here..
Life is too short and too tough for sarcastic comments *if i've misinterpreted you pls forgive me..


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

Thank you Helenameva...
How do i go about checking the references? I've found all this builder very complicated.
I'm okay with paying moneyvuo-front but 59% is a lot.. i can't afford to take risks..barely enough for the jobs i need doing. Been scammed in the past by a builder who took my money and never returned - even his office address was false. I'm learning not to trust now.


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

I meant 50% percent up-front too much... 
Is there a way to edit here.?. bit confused with using forums.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Our builder asked for money up front for materials, but it was an ongoing thing ie every so often (week, 10 days) we'd have a chat and he'd say ok this week we'll need to get the floor laid so we need... now we need the tiles for the hall etc and I think he was fine, but it was basically him. He found the tiler, the plumber, the electrician but we paid them directly. I would go back to the builders you've already spoken to and tell them you wouldn't be prepared to pay 50% up front, but maybe 20% with an update every xxx days. 
Don't forget though, it's impossible to predict everything and you'll most likely need to put in another 20% on top of the agreed price any way.

Another way to play it would be to get someone to do a small job to start off and see how it goes.


----------



## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

There are 10 pages of construction companies listed in the Malaga Yellow Pages - for Malaga and surrounding areas. Perhaps you have lots in your Yellow Pages too? You say you've only tried 3 companies. Perhaps there are more you can try out and ask for a smaller deposit. As for references, most companies will probably give you references if you ask them.


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

I've tried many companies but got as far as checking out another "three about their conditions of payment.." I'm still in the process of doing this..

Here, I'm looking for recommendation and information by "word of mouth" from english people as my spanish is basic.


----------



## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

For references, I would ask the builder to give you a few e-mail addresses of past customers, then send them each a message. If it's an English builder, there's a good chance he has had English customers.
Do you have a quote detailing labour costs and materials costs? If you get one, it will help with your negotiation for how much to pay up front.
Finally, don't work with anyone who only deals in cash. Once you know them better it might be easier, but initially I would do bank transfers only. Make sure there is a paper trial to confirm what the money is to be used for.


----------



## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Do you have contact with any of your neighbours who may have had work done? 

That is how we found our builder. I would recommend him but he no longer lives in the Alicante area and anyway I don't think he would have travelled from here to Elche. He had enough work in this area to keep him busy.

We paid him as he went along. It was a big job and we paid him stage payments as he finished each part of the job. 

Can you break down the work you want doing into smaller parts and agree to pay the builder when he finishes each part. That should keep both parties happy.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I will repeat - have you tried the builders recommended by your architect?

You do have licences in place I hope?


Is it obra menor or obra major?


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I somehow remember a builder called O Reilly. Irish .He wasn't much good but he was cheap - certainly cost less than Stubbs- but do keep a close eye on his work. Worth a try


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

sara7 said:


> What are the usual terms of payment for builders in spain (province of alicante)?
> 
> The three builders, i asked, wanted 50% percent upfront and 50% on completion of work.
> Is this the usual?
> ...


Builders anywhere struggle with non payment and are entitled to offer any terms they see fit. 

They can protect themselves, and reduce their risk exposure, by asking for a proportion of payment up front if they have any reason to doubt the customers ability, or willingness, to pay.

You are not prepared to trust them and carry a proportion of the risk by paying a proportion upfront- you expect them to carry the full risk of carrying out all the works and possibly not receiving not a penny from you. I'm not saying you would contemplate not paying but many do.....

Perhaps you need to negotiate with one of the builders, thus giving both parties a measure of comfort.


----------



## BMC77 (Aug 15, 2009)

sara7 said:


> Like i said.. ive been looking for sometime (i.e. looking..finding..liasing repeatedly for about 9 mths - even i cant believe it). All i've found are either cowboys or 50% up-fronters...
> 
> My resources are minimal..so very time consuming running to locutotios and the difficulties in communications etc etc..and my spanish is basic)...
> That's why i ask here...
> ...


There's something about this story that just doesn't ring true. Four years ago you were homeless and looking for a squat. Fast-forward to the present and you own a home in full, despite having "minimal resources". 

Since finances are tight, it strikes me as odd that you are trying to get building work done. You've lived in the country for four years yet only have a "basic" level of Spanish, which makes you reluctant to use a Spanish builder. Nonetheless, given the recession, I find it hard to believe that you can't find a single English-speaking builder who would agree to your terms, be that buying materials as and when, or paying a lesser amount upfront.

But perhaps the most startling thing is your reaction - selling up. I honestly can't believe that someone who had been homeless would even contemplate selling the paid-for roof above their head and risk being homeless again. :noidea:

I'd like to think that this story isn't genuine, but if it is, then I hope you find a way of resolving it that doesn't involve becoming homeless again.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> If you are using a good Spanish builder he will not be likely to ask for money upfront. If, however, you are using a Brit builder, you may well be saying goodbye to any money upfront as others have found out.


A small tradesperson may quite legitimately ask for payment for materials upfront. 
What I did in the UK when having work done was to open an account with a builders merchant and get the materials required myself and at trade price.
Not all builders carry enough liquidity to pay out thousands of euros for materials for which they may never receive payment.
I personally would use a Spanish builder rather than a Brit but not because I think that NO Spanish builder would cheat a customer. There are rogues in Spain as well.
We got ripped off big time by a Spanish gardener recently. He made the mistake of seeing 'mature' British women as rich and stupid. He got told his services were no longer required and had the audacity to ask why. He got told.
We've had dealings with dodgy Brits, Moroccans and South Americans before we learnt to be more careful.
Rip-off merchants come in all nationalities, sadly, and Spanish are no exception, even in small villages like ours. It depends on the company they keep.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> A small tradesperson may quite legitimately ask for payment for materials upfront.
> What I did in the UK when having work done was to open an account with a builders merchant and get the materials required myself and at trade price.
> Not all builders carry enough liquidity to pay out thousands of euros for materials for which they may never receive payment.
> I personally would use a Spanish builder rather than a Brit but not because I think that NO Spanish builder would cheat a customer. There are rogues in Spain as well.
> ...


Goodwill and good business ethics work both ways. Often tradesmen (any nationality) like to see a little financial "commitment" from their prospective client before they lay out expense - afterall, customers can be as "dodgy" as tradesmen

Jo xxx


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Couldn't agree more.

Recently two lads with Dublin accents cane to my home and offered to Tarmac both front and rear driveways for only £1500. 

Being more savvy than them I talked them down to £1200 by paying upfront and I know they will do a great job when they return next month though currently they must be very busy as they never answer their phone


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> Recently two lads with Dublin accents cane to my home and offered to Tarmac both front and rear driveways for only £1500.
> 
> Being more savvy than them I talked them down to £1200 by paying upfront and I know they will do a great job when they return next month though currently they must be very busy as they never answer their phone


Don't you think most people exercise a little due diligence before parting with money to tradespeople?
We used to do work valued at several£000s for account customers. Before we opened an account with a new client we would ask him/her to supply bank references up to a specified amount. Of course even by doing this trust was involved. Trust is how business works in most places.
We had a customer, a haulier, who provided sound references and paid for a few minor works. One day he brought in his one HGV and had several £000 worth of work done on it. The bill was duly sent at the month's end but no payment was forthcoming.
He was overheard boasting in a pub that he had no intention of paying so we put out a call to everyone we knew saying there was a 'drink' for anyone finding the HGV in question. One day we saw it parked near our house so I put my car in front, Sandra's was placed behind to block it, we called a recovery company we used and told them that the customer had forgotten to hide the keys in the customary place as he wanted us to take it in for its Ministry check. We called one of our mechanics and asked him to do what was necessary to enable the HGV to be moved. The recovery vehicle came and took the vehicle to our workshop where we removed the drive shaft and locked it in. I went to the police station and told them what we had done and that we had a lien on the HGV for unpaid parts and labour.
The owner of the truck called the police but they could do nothing, saying it was a civil matter. He had no means to pay so we kept the HGV unit and used it to move trailers about.
The word soon got round that the business may have been owned by women but that we were not to be messed with.


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yeah well its all a matter off trust.

These lads seemed decent and honest- indeed they were even willing to hold onto my house keys in case they came to start the work when I was out and also have my car keys in case they need to move it off the driveway


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yeah well its all a matter off trust.
> 
> These lads seemed decent and honest- indeed they were even willing to hold onto my house keys in case they came to start the work when I was out and also have my car keys in case they need to move it off the driveway


Businesses have to work on trust to a certain degree. But that doesn't rule out due diligence.
But there will always be stupid, naive or vulnerable people who get taken for a ride.
We nearly always got our bills paid, one way or another. We had employees who,expected to be paid.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yeah well its all a matter off trust.
> 
> These lads seemed decent and honest- indeed they were even willing to hold onto my house keys in case they came to start the work when I was out and also have my car keys in case they need to move it off the driveway


Obviously, lads turning up and just offering to do some work is one thing and of course you wouldnt give them money up front. But go to a reputable building company for needed work and agree a price and terms with a written quote. Then if they need/require a percentage up front and give an invoice for it, then its fine isnt it??? 

My point is that non payment/ripping off can work both ways - there are dodgy builders out there, but there are dodgy customers too

Jo xxx


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> Obviously, lads turning up and just offering to do some work is one thing and of course you wouldnt give them money up front. But go to a reputable building company for needed work and agree a price and terms with a written quote. Then if they need/require a percentage up front and give an invoice for it, then its fine isnt it???
> 
> My point is that non payment/ripping off can work both ways - there are dodgy builders out there, but there are dodgy customers too
> 
> Jo xxx


Like this:


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

Yes.. there are un-said bits so i can understand the confusion but this is not my biography.. But go-one, just for you...

1. Im not paying for the repairs - my bro is and there's a limit (that's why there's barely enough money)..
He wants a smaller deposit including paying for each job in full as it's completed so by the last job is completed he owes only for that job minus the deposit...
He doesn't want to pay a large deposit to a builder he doesn't know. I actually like the builder and would be shocked if he scammed.. i don't believe this one would scam.

2.My flat was paid for by someone else.. A gift. Unbelievable or not.. 

3.Selling up is a last option as i'm beginning to give up on it. But if i get the repairs done i can sell up for about six times the price i paid (it was a bank repossession at an amazing deal).

4.You try learning spanish after experiencing what has happened to me the first 2 years i was here...You would not believe it! Also there's a thing called post-traumatic shock and trauma..etc.. So dont judge me until you've walked in my mocosans (well my trainers).

3.Don't blame me for being born with a dizzy personality that makes me appear to have a peanut for a brain. And for stupidly trusting over and over as it's my nature to trust - an automatic action - that im trying to control.. 

Urrm 

Anyway i have had some good advice here even though i've still not got what i first asked for... that might not be necessary now though as i've emailed the builder trying to negotiate (fingers-crossed - i used google traductor).. but i do have basic spanish - just not refined enough for this kind of thing.

*A paper trail - good idea - i'll make sure i do that if my bro agrees to the new terms (that i hope the builder will email to me after he reads my email)...
Also the builder should have some kind of registered number or something like that.. ill look if he has a website but then ive still got to get through the language barrier and how would i know if it was a ligit number..

It's all so confusing.


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

xxx


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

Replied to most on pg 4.

The builder i was going to use and still want to us if things get agreed upon can get the obras thing done.. the cost of that was in the quote.

Wish i could scroll up to refresh my memory of the posts to answer them.

Receipts.. paper trail a good idea.. Im best taking notes down i think coz theres a few responses here that should help..

xxx


----------



## sara7 (Jan 7, 2011)

Ah! Its pg 4 again.. sorry.. need to get usedto using forums.


----------



## jonmlb748 (Oct 30, 2011)

As an aside I have clients who won't have Spanish workmen in their homes due to being ripped off and quoted astronomical sums for work.our local builders yard is busy with workmen from all over Europe though Russian business has dropped through the floor, the Bulgarians Romanians etc seem to have plenty of work


----------



## lee25767 (Sep 22, 2013)

im a british builder and work in UK. Most of the jobs i do i ask for cash for marerials, or get them to buy them
Cant say how they work out there but would think as they are a bit poor at the mo, they will need to order the materials as they know the people in the builders merchants or they speak the lingo so know what and when they are getting them.
Ask for a signed receipt for the money,or transfer into their account so you have proof and are covered by the bank


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

just one point - any payments over 2,500€ _have to by law _be made by bank transfer

that should give the OP some measure of security


----------



## Staines2011 (Jul 30, 2015)

sara7 said:


> I am looking for names of any builders from province of alicante or murcia


We spent two years in Alicante before moving to Ancona and settling in France. I know two and can send you there contact details when we come back from holidays on Monday. They wanted money upfront for materials but did not ask for anything else till they were finished putting the roof up. What sort of work are you needing done and have you sought permits?

Cheers


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Staines2011 said:


> We spent two years in Alicante before moving to Ancona and settling in France. I know two and can send you there contact details when we come back from holidays on Monday. They wanted money upfront for materials but did not ask for anything else till they were finished putting the roof up. What sort of work are you needing done and have you sought permits?
> 
> Cheers


Asking for money upfront for materials is really a cop-out (or even con)! Most good builders will have an account with a local builder's yard and so will simply put the materials on account.

Using (key) stage payments then ensures that there is sufficient cash flow to pay the builders yard in a timely fashion.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Asking for money upfront for materials is really a cop-out (or even con)! Most good builders will have an account with a local builder's yard and so will simply put the materials on account.
> 
> Using (key) stage payments then ensures that there is sufficient cash flow to pay the builders yard in a timely fashion.


Quite! A certain lady, here in the village, provided the sum of €7,500 for materials for a new roof. That was 5 years ago, she is still waiting for her new roof and/or the return of her money.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

An established builder in the UK will have a line of credit with a supplier so he can purchase materials for jobs on account. That's the case with most businesses that do repair or maintenance work requiring parts or materials for a job. Even small businesses or one-man companies will have this type of facility, IF they are credit worthy. I personally would be wary of any kind of business, big or small, that had such a cash flow problem that they needed cash before any work was done. But that doesn't mean to say they are likely to run off with your money. It just means they haven't surplus cash.
The supplier will have negotiated terms of payment of invoices , usually thirty days, with the business.
Both parties need some form of protection, obviously, but there's no escaping the fact that a reliable, successful building contractor will have a supportive relationship with a supplier and should therefore not be asking for cash in advance.
I can't see why the situation should be any different in Spain. It works like that for the car repair workshops I've got to know.
Once a price for a job has been agreed, stage payments can be required.
Builders can indeed ask for cash upfront but I would be more wary of such firms than of those that didn't.


----------

