# Thinking of moving to Spain?



## wafu (Aug 14, 2008)

I bought a property 7 years ago with my wife and renovated it and have lived here permanently for 3 years and now have residence. I live up in the mountains in Andalucia not far from Malaga...although myself and my wife thought we were being so careful with every step we took I think we fell into every pit there is...luckily we survived..just!

If anyone is thinking of moving to Spain especially Andalucia (Costa Del Sol) Malaga region and wants any advice give me a shout, I would hate to see anyone else fall into the same pits!

Hasta pronto

Gary


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## Julz21 (Aug 17, 2008)

Hi Gary we have been in Spain for 5 Years and Bought and refurbished a house, its likley we have fallen into the same pits. We are a little more up the coast than you, we are in the costa tropical. near Motril. We had so many problems when we got here that I decided to put together a website, to make people aware of the problems they could encounter when buying or living in rural Spain. Because I am new to this forum I cant place links yet but I think I can tell you the adress of the site. ruralspain info take a look if you like and let me know what you think. If you have info that you would like to share to help people, I would gladly place it on my site.

Julian.


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## Davidakky (Oct 14, 2008)

Most of the problems arising from the purchase of 'rustic' property for renovation is the type of building you are buying and how it is licensed.
Estate Agents will help you all the way...even recommending 'their own lawyer they have known for years', until the sale has gone though and the the sh1t hits the fan.
In Spain there is a myriad of licenses and application forms and permissions required...even to change the colour of paint on your own house! An independent lawyer will be able to advise you of what is required and needed, the pitfalls, the paperwork and more importantly how the property you are buying is registered!
Many Spanish terms used for property are 'miss translated' by your friendly estate agent and as such when you are buying your country farm house you find out a little to late that you have actually bought a cow shed or store building!
If you are renovating don't spend all your cash on the purchase. By obtaining a small mortgage the bank will also check the registration of the property and they will check far deeper than your 'friendly lawyer' as they need to protect their security. The bank will flag the problems with the registration...if the property actually exists in the Spanish Registry at all...and a suitable course of action to rectify the situation so the purchase is legal and above board.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

The rules for doing ANYTHING to property in Spain are VERY SIMPLE. YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. And every day it's MORE restrictive. The issues tend to arise with RURAL FINCA RUSTICA. 

There WERE ways and means of bypassing some of the LAWS concerning this sort of land - but these are (or have been) being closed. 

SIMPLY - If you're looking at a property and want to do something after purchase - 

MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE PERMITS IN ORDER & SIGNED BY THE MAYOR ENTERED INTO THE TRANSFER DEEDS VIA NOTARY.

DO NOT BELIEVE ESTATE AGENTS. 
DO NOT USE THEIR LAWYERS - OR A LAWYER "RECOMMENDED" BY THE SELLER.

Also be aware of "grandfather" permits. Sometimes there are "rules" applied that are valid for the lifetime of the owner - they're NOT transferable. This is VERY possible in RUSTICA where the existing owner is an old established Shepherd or something. 

All this said - town halls NEED the revenue - so I guess that VERY rural areas may start to give mayoral permissions for minor exceptions in OBRA MENOR.


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## Davidakky (Oct 14, 2008)

This is true although now tha power of the mayors is being reduced and more often that not the permissions issed by the mayor are falling through as these do not confirm to the local urban plan or PGOU.
By obtaining a mortgage the bank will confirm everything regarding the ownership and conduct their own control and checks. This will protect you and also 'check' that your lawyer is doing thier job.
If the vedor and the agent say that permissions are in place present them with your mortgage paperwork. The bank will also check to make sure that these permissions are legal and still current as they do expire as this will form part of the banks future security!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Davidakky said:


> This is true although now tha power of the mayors is being reduced and more often that not the permissions issed by the mayor are falling through as these do not confirm to the local urban plan or PGOU.


Yup - I work in a Town Hall and share an office with the Municipal _Arquitecto _and _Aparejador_ on fridays. 

Like I said "loopholes" are being closed - esp Obra mayor. Much depends on how well the mayor is connected and how accurate the Catastro register is. But Obra MENOR is pretty much still locally controlled.

In general existing properties (in MADRID) will not be destroyed if they violate regulations. But any proper renovations etc bring them into the line of fire and will be refused. Minor repairs get approved generally.


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

*We are moving out there this year.*

Hello,

We are retiring to Spain at the end of this summer. We too bought our house 7 years ago and have thus far just used it for holidays but the big day is looming. One question really, do you regret making the move?



wafu said:


> I bought a property 7 years ago with my wife and renovated it and have lived here permanently for 3 years and now have residence. I live up in the mountains in Andalucia not far from Malaga...although myself and my wife thought we were being so careful with every step we took I think we fell into every pit there is...luckily we survived..just!
> 
> If anyone is thinking of moving to Spain especially Andalucia (Costa Del Sol) Malaga region and wants any advice give me a shout, I would hate to see anyone else fall into the same pits!
> 
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mwells said:


> Hello,
> 
> We are retiring to Spain at the end of this summer. We too bought our house 7 years ago and have thus far just used it for holidays but the big day is looming. One question really, do you regret making the move?




Whilst Gary might, thousands might not.
Experiences depend on so many variables that you cannot take one person's 'story' as typical.


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

*Moving to Alhaurin el grande*

That's good to hear. We have visited 3 or 4 times a year since purchasing the house and thoroughly enjoy it so can't wait for the day to come. That said, we are starting to worry, understandably, little doubt creeping in. We live about half an hour inland from Malaga/Marbella and it is beautiful however on a huge hill as it is off the mountain road from Fuengirola to Alhaurin el grande.

Just lately all we hear are people coming back to the UK or wanting to come back, we are not seeking work there so that is one good thing in these times. 

How long have you lived there and have you ever wished to return?

M



mrypg9 said:


> Whilst Gary might, thousands might not.
> Experiences depend on so many variables that you cannot take one person's 'story' as typical.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mwells said:


> That's good to hear. We have visited 3 or 4 times a year since purchasing the house and thoroughly enjoy it so can't wait for the day to come. That said, we are starting to worry, understandably, little doubt creeping in. We live about half an hour inland from Malaga/Marbella and it is beautiful however on a huge hill as it is off the mountain road from Fuengirola to Alhaurin el grande.
> 
> Just lately all we hear are people coming back to the UK or wanting to come back, we are not seeking work there so that is one good thing in these times.
> 
> ...




I assume the question was addressed to me?
We moved from Prague to Spain just over two years ago. We sold up in the UK - houses, commercial premises - and rented the kind of house we neither wished or could afford to buy....large house with landscaped gardens, outdoor heated swimmingpool etc.
After three years we decided to move on to Spain. We chose the part of Spain where we have settled....on the coast just a few km from Marbella, in a small village which is still 'Spanish', because my son and dil have had property here for years. It suits us because it is a Spanish area but with all mod cons and easy access to two towns, Marbella and Estepona (I prefer Estepona).
We are very happy with our life here. We are once again renting a very pleasant villa, have made very many friends and are active in our community.
We intend to spend a few more years here then move on to France for a while then end our wanderings in Glasgow's Merchant City.
But.....we took early retirement as we had enough to fund our fairly simple lifestyle. Our major expense is the rent of our villa but we look at it as a long holiday. We have both spent a lot of time in various European countries and speak passable Spanish.
So we are not typical.
I certainly wouldn't contemplate moving here or anywhere abroad in these times of economic hardship almost everywhere unless I had a secure job to go to and enough funds as back-up in case of emergency.


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

Sounds like you are enjoying your life there. We do have our pensions and savings, we were going to sell our UK property but are now considering keeping it on, just in case, which will reduce our slush fund for travel etc. though it will be an investment. 

Thanks for your input, it has helped as we, or at least I speak reasonable Spanish, a work in progress, we have involved ourselves with the local community and do have some friends and neighbours, just being jumpy I think. Thanks 




mrypg9 said:


> I assume the question was addressed to me?
> We moved from Prague to Spain just over two years ago. We sold up in the UK - houses, commercial premises - and rented the kind of house we neither wished or could afford to buy....large house with landscaped gardens, outdoor heated swimmingpool etc.
> After three years we decided to move on to Spain. We chose the part of Spain where we have settled....on the coast just a few km from Marbella, in a small village which is still 'Spanish', because my son and dil have had property here for years. It suits us because it is a Spanish area but with all mod cons and easy access to two towns, Marbella and Estepona (I prefer Estepona).
> We are very happy with our life here. We are once again renting a very pleasant villa, have made very many friends and are active in our community.
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mwells said:


> Sounds like you are enjoying your life there. We do have our pensions and savings, we were going to sell our UK property but are now considering keeping it on, just in case, which will reduce our slush fund for travel etc. though it will be an investment.
> 
> Thanks for your input, it has helped as we, or at least I speak reasonable Spanish, a work in progress, we have involved ourselves with the local community and do have some friends and neighbours, just being jumpy I think. Thanks


I think you will have a very enjoyable life in Spain. You have a good set-up there and speak Spanish which imo is a necessity. We are after all in Spain! Keeping your UK house is a good idea too.
The chief reason we didn't is that we thought that as our offspring are very well set up in the UK they do not need any 'inheritance'.
So we decided to spend our dosh on the good life and if we're still alive and find ourselves insolvent will turn up with our suitcases on their doorstep!


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

*Moving to spain*

We really want to sell the house but it's your last sentence that gets to the matter, what do we do if one of us dies and the other is infirm, living in the mountains and unable to drive any longer. Those black thoughts make me want to keep the house but the, 'either we're going or we're not' moments make us want to sell up and do it all properly. We've always done that which we wanted at the time and sorted the rest out as and when necessary. I'll let you know what we do in August/September this year.

In the meantime, if you see an old gal, looking confused whilst pushing her hubby in his bathchair, along the front in Marbella, please stop and say hello.




mrypg9 said:


> I think you will have a very enjoyable life in Spain. You have a good set-up there and speak Spanish which imo is a necessity. We are after all in Spain! Keeping your UK house is a good idea too.
> The chief reason we didn't is that we thought that as our offspring are very well set up in the UK they do not need any 'inheritance'.
> So we decided to spend our dosh on the good life and if we're still alive and find ourselves insolvent will turn up with our suitcases on their doorstep!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mwells said:


> We really want to sell the house but it's your last sentence that gets to the matter, what do we do if one of us dies and the other is infirm, living in the mountains and unable to drive any longer. Those black thoughts make me want to keep the house but the, 'either we're going or we're not' moments make us want to sell up and do it all properly. We've always done that which we wanted at the time and sorted the rest out as and when necessary. I'll let you know what we do in August/September this year.
> 
> In the meantime, if you see an old gal, looking confused whilst pushing her hubby in his bathchair, along the front in Marbella, please stop and say hello.


First paragraph: that's a situation that only you can resolve, really. The reasons that we're heading back to Glasgow are because OH was born there, it's a great city for art, culture, gastronomy and shopping, the Merchant City is just gorgeous, all restored warehouses etc., some Georgian, plus we could well be decrepit by then and healthcare and care for the elderly in Scotland is second to none.
But then healthcare in Spain is good although it seems you need family or friends to support you.
Second paragraph:  I will definitely stop but may either a) help with the pushing or b) turf your husband out of the chair and jump in....all depending on my level of energy that day!
Yes, keep in touch, by pm perhaps. After all, we're not that far away.


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

*Moving to Spain*

Sounds like a plan. Another possitive there, healthcare. You put all my concerns into perspective. Glasgow doesn't sound half bad either. 



mrypg9 said:


> First paragraph: that's a situation that only you can resolve, really. The reasons that we're heading back to Glasgow are because OH was born there, it's a great city for art, culture, gastronomy and shopping, the Merchant City is just gorgeous, all restored warehouses etc., some Georgian, plus we could well be decrepit by then and healthcare and care for the elderly in Scotland is second to none.
> But then healthcare in Spain is good although it seems you need family or friends to support you.
> Second paragraph:  I will definitely stop but may either a) help with the pushing or b) turf your husband out of the chair and jump in....all depending on my level of energy that day!
> Yes, keep in touch, by pm perhaps. After all, we're not that far away.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mwells said:


> Hello,
> 
> We are retiring to Spain at the end of this summer. We too bought our house 7 years ago and have thus far just used it for holidays but the big day is looming. One question really, do you regret making the move?


Hello! We were in a similar position, bought the house in 2005, originally planned to retire and move here in 2012 but decided life was too short and came out in 2008, selling our UK house just before the credit crunch bit and prices started falling (50% good luck, 50% good judgement!)

Absolutely no regrets, living a more or less stress-free life in a small country town amidst beautiful countryside and very welcoming, friendly people. We certainly have a much better quality of life on a low income here than we did when we were working full-time in the UK.


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

*Moving to Spain*

Thank you for this. I think we're just getting jittery as it is so close but it is really helpful to have the positive viewpoints. So you sold your UK home, this is what we really want to do and were adamant this was what we would do however we are less confident now the date is looming.

Have you thought about what you will do should you become infirm or decided that, for whatever reason, you just wanted to return to the UK? This is our dilema.

Having said that, we have never been in the position of owning two homes, we have always had to make our choices and live by them, which have turned out quite nicely for us, now though, probably because there is a chance we could have a choice, we can't make the damn decision.

Sorry if I'm being boring but I am one of those who listens to all views, which then helps me make my decisions. 



Alcalaina said:


> Hello! We were in a similar position, bought the house in 2005, originally planned to retire and move here in 2012 but decided life was too short and came out in 2008, selling our UK house just before the credit crunch bit and prices started falling (50% good luck, 50% good judgement!)
> 
> Absolutely no regrets, living a more or less stress-free life in a small country town amidst beautiful countryside and very welcoming, friendly people. We certainly have a much better quality of life on a low income here than we did when we were working full-time in the UK.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mwells said:


> Thank you for this. I think we're just getting jittery as it is so close but it is really helpful to have the positive viewpoints. So you sold your UK home, this is what we really want to do and were adamant this was what we would do however we are less confident now the date is looming.
> 
> Have you thought about what you will do should you become infirm or decided that, for whatever reason, you just wanted to return to the UK? This is our dilema.
> 
> ...


Frankly I would rather be old and infirm here than in the UK. Old people are treated with much more respect here (at least in our little town it seems that way). The state healthcare system is as good as, if not better than, the NHS and if you have the money you can always go private. I would rather end my days sitting on my balcony watching the raptors soaring and the sun rising over the mountains than in some grotty care home in Britain or scared to leave the house in case I get mugged.

My OH feels the same way. We don´t have any kids though; I know a lot of British immigrants here feel terribly isolated from their grandchildren and that is one big reason why people want to go back again.


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## mwells (Jan 6, 2011)

Our perception reflects your experience, I am hopeful for the future and evermore so after logging on to this forum, in the UK we now hear only the negative, (were once it was all, 'look what Spain has to offer') so it is great to hear from people who actually have made the move and do not regret it.

We really have lost our allegiance to the UK over the last 6 or 7 years and hope to enjoy a new era in Spain, we're not looking for Utopia, just an enjoyable autumn to our life and hopefully winter too. M




Alcalaina said:


> Frankly I would rather be old and infirm here than in the UK. Old people are treated with much more respect here (at least in our little town it seems that way). The state healthcare system is as good as, if not better than, the NHS and if you have the money you can always go private. I would rather end my days sitting on my balcony watching the raptors soaring and the sun rising over the mountains than in some grotty care home in Britain or scared to leave the house in case I get mugged.
> 
> My OH feels the same way. We don´t have any kids though; I know a lot of British immigrants here feel terribly isolated from their grandchildren and that is one big reason why people want to go back again.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I agree with all of the above. Our decision to eventually return to the UK -but not England - is in no way going somewhere 'better'. Just somewhere different, which is why we want to spend some months in France en route.
We do miss easy access to theatres, concerts, cinemas and it will be handy to have those within tottering distance when we are in Glasgow.
We really do have a relaxed, carefree life here and we don't worry about medical care as state/regional care can be supplemented by private organisations such as Helicopterossanitarios for a very reasonable fee.
I don't miss my family as they have a house five minutes away and they are here very frequently. No way do I see either of us ending our days in a dreary home for the aged....although to be frank, who knows where we will end up?
It's also a fact though that Scotland provides funding and services to enable those in need to remain independent and in their own homes for as long as possible, something that afaik neither England or Spain currently does.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

[QUOTE=mwells;434155.

We really have lost our allegiance to the UK over the last 6 or 7 years 
QUOTE

I lost mine at around 5pm CET on December 19th 2005 when we arrived in Prague to find a fairyland of pure white snow, twinkling lights ,fir trees, our Czech friends waiting at the airport to drive us to our warm new home where a bottle of champagne, a plate of home-made strudel, a cafetiere and a pack of coffee was set out in the kitchen.
Moving to Scotland will be a move to a foreign country to me as I'm a Sassenach!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Moving to Scotland will be a move to a foreign country to me as I'm a Sassenach!


I love Scotland and would happily live there but for one thing -

IT GETS DARK AT 3.30 PM IN THE WINTER !!!

I feel a seasonal affective disorder coming on just thinking about it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I love Scotland and would happily live there but for one thing -
> 
> IT GETS DARK AT 3.30 PM IN THE WINTER !!!
> 
> I feel a seasonal affective disorder coming on just thinking about it.


By the time I end up there I'll be past noticing things like that...I'll be in a permanent twilight zone....


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I love Scotland and would happily live there but for one thing -
> 
> IT GETS DARK AT 3.30 PM IN THE WINTER !!!
> 
> I feel a seasonal affective disorder coming on just thinking about it.


Being a native of that country, Alcalaina, I have to say, I second that!! I just kept moving south to avoid the darkness, first to London, now Andalucia. 

Investing in one of these ultra violet lightbox things would be essential!


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