# Estate Agents



## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

Has anyone managed to barter estate agent fees down, they seem to be pretty high and we have sourced our own properties so they have done no work other that the single viewing?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

vix2000 said:


> Has anyone managed to barter estate agent fees down, they seem to be pretty high and we have sourced our own properties so they have done no work other that the single viewing?


All you do is refuse to go with them.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

Unfortunately they are the only one advertising the property we want


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## Beach buddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Try finding where the house is and approach the owner personally. Never know might work


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## lewisjamie1967 (Mar 30, 2019)

vix2000 said:


> Has anyone managed to barter estate agent fees down, they seem to be pretty high and we have sourced our own properties so they have done no work other that the single viewing?




It’s pretty standard across the board two months rent ( deposit) followed by one month up from followed by one more month (estate agent fee) and they won’t budge your better off trying to negotiate the rent which in return will bring estate agent fee down ! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Beach buddy said:


> Try finding where the house is and approach the owner personally. Never know might work


Friends of mine (Spanish/ American couple) got taken to court when they were accused of seeing a property behind the designated estate agents back ...


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

lewisjamie1967 said:


> It’s pretty standard across the board two months rent ( deposit) followed by one month up from followed by one more month (estate agent fee) and they won’t budge your better off trying to negotiate the rent which in return will bring estate agent fee down !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends on the area. Next city to us is as you describe but in ours it's one month deposit and half a month in fees (agent gets the full month but it's split between tenant and owner).

OP might have a better chance negotiating the rent down; we offered 20 a month less than advertised and that was accepted.

Castilla y León | Andalucía


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Beach buddy said:


> Try finding where the house is and approach the owner personally. Never know might work


Hola 

Estate agents aren't silly and mostly the illegal mobile phone only ones have had to go legal. With between three and six percent commission at stake for selling a house, solicitors would be instructed. 

Whilst it is always worth asking for a discount if you have found a property yourself, if you are "on their books" then have you signed away your rights? 

Davexf


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Of course you may have been smart and not signed away any rights. 

And remember that usually ones Rights are just that and are often protected by law, even if you were ‘persuaded’ to sign an illegal agreement: NB. Not an uncommon thing in real estate, buying, selling and renting !


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm assuming this this is for renting and not buying.

We have recently completed on a purchase and spent last week buying stuff for the flat.

At no time were we asked to 'sign on' with any of the estate agents we approached when we were looking to buy. Nor were we asked to sign anything when we were looking to rent last year (we didn't move due to a work issue)

Also we paid nothing to the agent for buying the flat (apart from maybe the seller added the costs, but thats a worldwide thing). 

We rent here in the uk and we had to pay 2 months rent upfront that went into the tenancy deposit scheme and I think all we paid were the usual searches to ensure we were credit worthy. The landlord paid a fee to the estate agent.


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## Beach buddy (Jul 7, 2018)

vix2000 said:


> Has anyone managed to barter estate agent fees down, they seem to be pretty high and we have sourced our own properties so they have done no work other that the single viewing?


 This doesnt say to rent so why are most of the replies regarding renting. I read it as to buy?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Friends of mine (Spanish/ American couple) got taken to court when they were accused of seeing a property behind the designated estate agents back ...


Similar to a friend, a buyer came with an estate agent then returned a couple of days after and made a private offer. The agent threatened her with court proceedings so she had to pay them their lost commission. Have to say we have bought a few properties in Spain and never had to pay a commission although it was probably tagged on to the purchase price. When we have sold there we paid the Agents commission.


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Beach buddy said:


> This doesnt say to rent so why are most of the replies regarding renting. I read it as to buy?


It doesn't say to buy, either. I read it as to rent; surely if buying you could get more than one viewing? Anyway, fees apply in both situations.

Castilla y León | Andalucía


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

_Si_ said:


> It doesn't say to buy, either. I read it as to rent; surely if buying you could get more than one viewing? *Anyway, fees apply in both situations*.
> 
> Castilla y León | Andalucía


We didn't pay any 'fees' to the estate agent as buyers. And I would not have if it were suggested.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

This is to buy. The agent has shown us this one property only which we found ourselves. The fees are 3% both ways.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

vix2000 said:


> This is to buy. The agent has shown us this one property only which we found ourselves. The fees are 3% both ways.


 What does this mean? The agent has shown us this one property only which we found ourselves.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

vix2000 said:


> This is to buy. The agent has shown us this one property only which we found ourselves. The fees are 3% both ways.


Are you saying you found it on an internet search and then approached the agent?

Or did you do a drive by and see a 'Se Vende' sign which had a board?

But either way if the agent is asking for 3% of the asking price from you and you really want the house, I would be offering at least 5% less than the asking price maybe even 10% as a start. 

But there are still thousands of houses for sale with hundreds of agents so unless its something really special you should be prepared to walk away.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

A long time ago now (2005) but when we bought our house, the 6% agent's fee was paid by the vendor.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

When I bought in 2003 I didn't pay any fee to the estate agent, paid 5% to the estate agent as the vendor when I sold that property in 2017 and again as the buyer paid nothing to the estate agent when I bought a new property in 2017.

I know some agencies do charge a comission to both vendor and buyer (Tecnocasa is notorious for it).


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## Beach buddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Tecnocasa are the worst, they even charge you for a viewing I have heard. Offer silly prices for properties, never, never use them.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

Yes we found it on the internet. When we visited in February we contacted the estate agent and viewed this property. We visited again last week and arranged a visit again, so 2 visits with this agent in total.

We have viewed many other properties with various agents but prefer this property. We have not actually signed anything with this agent, but have with others. 

We just think 3% is a bit OTT and wondered if it is acceptable to try and negotiate a lower fee, or if it is the norm just to accept and pay it.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

vix2000 said:


> Yes we found it on the internet. When we visited in February we contacted the estate agent and viewed this property. We visited again last week and arranged a visit again, so 2 visits with this agent in total.
> 
> We have viewed many other properties with various agents but prefer this property. We have not actually signed anything with this agent, but have with others.
> 
> We just think 3% is a bit OTT and wondered if it is acceptable to try and negotiate a lower fee, or if it is the norm just to accept and pay it.


We have spent the last 3 years on and off, looking at places and have never signed with an agent. And not one asked for a fee.
Although to be honest most of the ones we used were recomended by locals to the area so that may have played a part.

If the house is the one you want, I guess you have to weigh up if the extra cost is worth it to you.

A couple of things to remember are, 
Make sure you get in writing that this is an agents fee and get a receipt clearly showing this.
Make sure they don't add it to the purchase price when the contract is drawn up as you will then end up paying tax on this amount. (10% approx of the purchase price is payable in tax)

If it were me I would start my negotiations on the price at 10% below market value, as this will then save you the 3% you can then go as high as you feel happy if this offer is refused.

*Make sure you do not use any lawyer, bank or other service put forward by the Estate agent and get a copy of the cadastral value or you might get a surprise tax later on.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

We have a very good solicitor and they have checked the PGOU and the IBI and utility bills. I guess we will wait and see if our offer is accepted.


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

vix2000 said:


> Yes we found it on the internet. When we visited in February we contacted the estate agent and viewed this property. We visited again last week and arranged a visit again, so 2 visits with this agent in total.
> 
> We have viewed many other properties with various agents but prefer this property. We have not actually signed anything with this agent, but have with others.
> 
> We just think 3% is a bit OTT and wondered if it is acceptable to try and negotiate a lower fee, or if it is the norm just to accept and pay it.



3 % is actually quite low. 5% is the norm for estate agents on the Costa del Sol - and is paid by the vendor.

People forget that you have to take many people out before having a sale....also unlike the UK, it is more of a relocation service - we do everything for our clients when they move here, and arrange building work, and maintenance well after the property has sold.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

I agree in those circumstances, but I found the property, and this is the only property they have shown me. The 3% charge is to the seller and vendor, so 6% in total. It is my solicitor who is doing all the other stuff.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

danboy20 said:


> 3 % is actually quite low. 5% is the norm for estate agents on the Costa del Sol - and is paid by the vendor.
> 
> People forget that you have to take many people out before having a sale....also unlike the UK, it is more of a relocation service - we do everything for our clients when they move here, and arrange building work, and maintenance well after the property has sold.


So your agency doesn't charge the buyer then. Do you think the OP should be asked to pay half the commission? And should that be the norm, given that all the "after-sales service" you mention benefits the buyer, not the vendor?

Sadly not all agents keep their promises when it comes to these services. I know several cases where they have promised to change electricity contracts, set up IBI payments etc - and just not bothered.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

Alcalaina, the services you are stating are included in the list of services by our solicitor along with many others including NIE and bank accounts, so the agent wouldn't need to do any of that, which is why I query the value of the 3% we are being asked to pay.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

vix2000 said:


> Alcalaina, the services you are stating are included in the list of services by our solicitor along with many others including NIE and bank accounts, so the agent wouldn't need to do any of that, which is why I query the value of the 3% we are being asked to pay.


Exactly! I was just trying to get Danboy's take on this, given that he is (or works for) an agent.

I hope your negotiations are successful.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

Thank you. I would also be interested. I do not mind paying a fee but I thing 3% x 2 is very high.


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## MickinUS (Jun 26, 2013)

I have been selling property in US for years and have never heard of buyers paying a commission. May be different in Spain but apparently there is no law governing real estate agents there - https://www.spanishestate.com/resources/costs

You need legal advice - not forum advice. If you haven't signed anything you may not be liable for any fees. I suspect if he's trying to get you for 3% he probably is NOT the listing agent - he has NO relationship with the owner or the listing agent. In normal circumstances the listing agent and the buyers agent split the 5-6% fee that the owner pays.

Was there a sign on the property when you viewed it with a different agent name and number? That would be the listing agent. 

Bottom line, you're already going to be paying 10% plus over the agreed sales price between IVA etc etc so you should NOT be paying another 3% to an agent.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

MickinUS said:


> I have been selling property in US for years and have never heard of buyers paying a commission. May be different in Spain but apparently there is no law governing real estate agents there - https://www.spanishestate.com/resources/costs
> 
> You need legal advice - not forum advice. If you haven't signed anything you may not be liable for any fees. I suspect if he's trying to get you for 3% he probably is NOT the listing agent - he has NO relationship with the owner or the listing agent. In normal circumstances the listing agent and the buyers agent split the 5-6% fee that the owner pays.
> 
> ...


Hola 

Yes, it is different in Spain and it differs between regions in the same autonomous authority. 

Some estate agents charge both seller & buyer and by differing percentages - that is within my region of Cádiz 

Davexf


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

MickinUS said:


> I have been selling property in US for years and have never heard of buyers paying a commission. May be different in Spain but apparently there is no law governing real estate agents there - https://www.spanishestate.com/resources/costs
> 
> You need legal advice - not forum advice. If you haven't signed anything you may not be liable for any fees. I suspect if he's trying to get you for 3% he probably is NOT the listing agent - he has NO relationship with the owner or the listing agent. In normal circumstances the listing agent and the buyers agent split the 5-6% fee that the owner pays.
> 
> ...


DO NOT confuse what is common in the US with what is common in Spain. For one, in Spain, there are no listing agents. The vendor can put his property with as many, or as few, agents as she or he chooses or none at all. Some agents follow what one would expect to be the norm, i.e. the one who is receiving the money and, theoretically put the property for sale with an agent/agents would be the one to pay the commission. However, there are those possible potential purchasers who have no real intention of buying and will have the agents take them around a number of properties just "to get an idea" of what is on offer. This can prove costly for agents especially if the properties are spread over a large area and, as a consequence, those agents expect to receive some remuneration for their efforts in addition to what they will receive from the seller.


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## MickinUS (Jun 26, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> DO NOT confuse what is common in the US with what is common in Spain. For one, in Spain, there are no listing agents. The vendor can put his property with as many, or as few, agents as she or he chooses or none at all. Some agents follow what one would expect to be the norm, i.e. the one who is receiving the money and, theoretically put the property for sale with an agent/agents would be the one to pay the commission. However, there are those possible potential purchasers who have no real intention of buying and will have the agents take them around a number of properties just "to get an idea" of what is on offer. This can prove costly for agents especially if the properties are spread over a large area and, as a consequence, those agents expect to receive some remuneration for their efforts in addition to what they will receive from the seller.


Thanks Baldilocks for the clarification. My God, that sounds like the Wild West! Forget what I said earlier about legal advice - if that's the scenario, then anything goes. 

So, the old adage still applies CAVEAT EMPTOR - let the BUYER BEWARE!!

Bottom line OP, don't engage someone without knowing how much it will cost you.


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## vix2000 (Jan 20, 2019)

I have had a solicitor from the start, and have signed nothing and handed nothing over as advised from the start, thank heavens. 

Unfortunately the property is only under 1 estate agents and is the one we have fallen in love with!!!

I guess we will have to suck the (extortionate) fees up


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

OTOH. we got a bad deal from a cheating realtor in the US in 2005-7 (when property values started falling.) Following the death of my f-i-l, we had put a villa up for sale at 330k with realtor X. We got no viewers despite the fact that other properties around ours were being sold by other realtors. In the end we took the property away from X and put it with realtor Z (by this time the prices had fallen to about 200k.) The property sold shortly after for 190k. We subsequently found out that X was in the habit of not showing properties to other realtors' referrals because she didn't want to split the commission!


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## MickinUS (Jun 26, 2013)

vix2000 said:


> I have had a solicitor from the start, and have signed nothing and handed nothing over as advised from the start, thank heavens.
> 
> Unfortunately the property is only under 1 estate agents and is the one we have fallen in love with!!!
> 
> I guess we will have to suck the (extortionate) fees up



Not necessarily!

Use the fact that you are paying this fee as a bargaining chip with the owner. If you are being charged this fee that probably means the owner is only paying half of what is normally paid. 

I would go back and now offer 3% less than you already have because of this and see the reaction. 

Make it an issue!


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

Mick in the US, you are right about the lack of registration in Spain. But vix2000 there is a RICS in Spain. So check the authenticity. Also the UK Gov has extensive general advice re buying in Spain in gov.uk/living in Spain. It outlines everything you need to know about the house, where to go for documents and licences and what you should be fully equipped with before parting with any money. There are lots of permits and habitation licenses you need.


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## Nadia_ (Feb 25, 2019)

I've been reading your posts on the topic and it seems like it's like a lottery on how much the commission will be. How does one go about getting the offers?


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

fortrose52 said:


> Mick in the US, you are right about the lack of registration in Spain. But vix2000 there is a RICS in Spain. So check the authenticity. Also the UK Gov has extensive general advice re buying in Spain in gov.uk/living in Spain. It outlines everything you need to know about the house, where to go for documents and licences and what you should be fully equipped with before parting with any money. *There are lots of permits and habitation licenses you need.*


If you are buying a property that needs no work then there are NO permits or licences. 
Well there weren't when we purchased in March this year.

I would say make sure that you understand the tax situation and the fact that taxes in Spain are higher (much) than the UK. 

As long as you have a decent lawyer who is on your side you should be Ok. And if the said lawyer is good, there will be no need for you to get any info. We were lucky and ours gave me all the info (although we know the area we now own in and knew which questions to ask. The lawyer was recommend by someone on here and my father in law has used them)


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Nadia_ said:


> I've been reading your posts on the topic and it seems like it's like a lottery on how much the commission will be. How does one go about getting the offers?


Talk to the agents and ask upfront what commission if any they charge the buyer. There are still thousands of properties for sale with hundreds of agents, so the chances are you will find a way to make it work.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

In the 35 + years I have lived in spain, during which I have bought and sold and helped others do the same, I have never heard of a buyer paying commission when they bought a property 

I would assume if one appointed an agent to find a property one might pay a fee, although I would expect that to come from the buyer too

As to the commission charged by an agent to seller: That like buying a bag of potatoes would be up to what both parties agreed

A friend sold a studio a few years ago. It was in a remote area. He paid a set fee, quite a lot more than a standard fee, as no agent would take on the work and expense for 5%, of the low price which was realised when sold


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

When I bought my original house in Spain in 2003, we found it via a property finding service, but there was no charge to me, they made their money by splitting the commission with the estate agents (the commission being paid by the vendors).


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## Nadia_ (Feb 25, 2019)

Barriej said:


> Talk to the agents and ask upfront what commission if any they charge the buyer. There are still thousands of properties for sale with hundreds of agents, so the chances are you will find a way to make it work.


Thanks Barriej for the reply, that sounds like a lot of time and work. Can't imagine how long it would take to find a home... Is the commission the only criteria you look from an agent?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Nadia_ said:


> Thanks Barriej for the reply, that sounds like a lot of time and work. Can't imagine how long it would take to find a home... Is the commission the only criteria you look from an agent?


Well, it doesn't have to be such hard work. We found our house in three days and completed a month later. 15 years later we still love it and hope to live here for many years to come.

Personally I think the most important thing to know exactly what you're looking for. We had a checklist of features rated as "essential", "desirable" and "nice to have". Ignore anything that doesn't tick all the "essential" boxes, no matter how nice the view. Then agree in advance what your budget is. Taxes, fees, fixtures and fittings, and often furniture, are all part of the price you pay. If you find your perfect home and it's within budget, why risk losing it by haggling with agents?


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## Nadia_ (Feb 25, 2019)

Lynn R said:


> When I bought my original house in Spain in 2003, we found it via a property finding service, but there was no charge to me, they made their money by splitting the commission with the estate agents (the commission being paid by the vendors).


Hi Lynn, do you maybe remember what service that was? Thank you


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## Nadia_ (Feb 25, 2019)

So you bought it directly from the owner if I understand correctly? I guess you're one of the lucky few who had made a quick buy


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Nadia_ said:


> So you bought it directly from the owner if I understand correctly? I guess you're one of the lucky few who had made a quick buy


We bought it from an agent. The seller paid the commission.

It came fully furnished, all good quality stuff. The price of all the furnishings and fittings is separated from the price of the actual building, so you don't pay have to tax on it. Something to watch out for.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Alcalaina said:


> Nadia_ said:
> 
> 
> > So you bought it directly from the owner if I understand correctly? I guess you're one of the lucky few who had made a quick buy
> ...


I think you will find that the ITV rate on furnature is quite a bit higher than property tax Thus is one were to show the furnature as an item in the sale it would be more expensive


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Nadia_ said:


> Hi Lynn, do you maybe remember what service that was? Thank you


That was in 2003 and the company is no longer in business (the property crash put paid to that, as agents did not want to share commission on what few sales they were making). They were called Axarquia Worldwide, and were very helpful both to us and a friend of ours who they also subsequently helped to find a property for.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Nadia_ said:


> Thanks Barriej for the reply, that sounds like a lot of time and work. Can't imagine how long it would take to find a home... Is the commission the only criteria you look from an agent?


Nope. I look for a combination of things and I take nothing for granted. 

We were in a slightly different situation to most. We have family in the area we now own in. Have been holidaying there for the past 15 years. Know a couple of bar owners, some locals, trades people etc. 
The agent we used in the end was one we know and had given us advice previously but at the time he had nothing suitable for us.
When we returned in Jan he had a couple of properties he thought might work and 1 did.

We put an offer in on feb 1st and completed on 21st march. Much faster than the UK.

We already had a lawyer arranged, our NIE's sorted and a bank account and we knew what questions to ask.

It is surprising how many people go to a foreign country and buy a property with their holiday head on.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Juan C said:


> I think you will find that the ITV rate on furnature is quite a bit higher than property tax Thus is one were to show the furnature as an item in the sale it would be more expensive


Transfer tax on moveable items is 4% (its only 21% if its new from a retailer)
Tax on property cost us 10% so its cheaper to pay for the furniture separately.

This info came from our lawyer 2 months ago. It may not be true as Im not qualified and can only listen to those who I pay to advise me.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> I think you will find that the ITV rate on furnature is quite a bit higher than property tax Thus is one were to show the furnature as an item in the sale it would be more expensive


ITV ????

Property transfer tax varies by area - 10% in Valencia but less in (some) other places


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> ITV ????


It depends on which channel... :


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Juan C said:


> I think you will find that the ITV rate on furnature is quite a bit higher than property tax Thus is one were to show the furnature as an item in the sale it would be more expensive


I assume you mean IVA (VAT), not ITV. ITV is the equivalent of MOT on vehicles.

I think you'll find there is no IVA on second-hand furniture purchased along with a property. We certainly didn't have to pay it. If you know otherwise, could you post a link?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> I assume you mean IVA (VAT), not ITV. ITV is the equivalent of MOT on vehicles.
> 
> I think you'll find there is no IVA on second-hand furniture purchased along with a property. We certainly didn't have to pay it. If you know otherwise, could you post a link?


You are right that IVA is not applied to second hand goods, but there is a tax on "transmisiones patrimoniales", which you are supposed to pay on all private transactions.

You may remember that Hacienda threatened to demand info from Wallapop to make sure that all the private second hand buying and selling was being subject to this tax.

As was stated above by Barriej, it is 4%. To be fair, he /she used the correct terminology, as it is not IVA / VAT.

https://www.rankia.com/blog/mejores...misiones-patrimoniales-itp-comunidad-autonoma


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Sorry about the typo. It was of course IVA

The info I was using was advice from a lawyer. But then I never had had too much confidence in most of them


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Overandout said:


> You are right that IVA is not applied to second hand goods, but there is a tax on "transmisiones patrimoniales", which you are supposed to pay on all private transactions.
> 
> You may remember that Hacienda threatened to demand info from Wallapop to make sure that all the private second hand buying and selling was being subject to this tax.
> 
> ...


Very much a HE


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## Chancerz (Feb 12, 2017)

Hi,

just a couple of points as I started a similar thread recently.

Firstly, all of the money in a property purchase comes from the buyer. The seller pays the agent a commission from the money the buyer pays for the house. The practice of charging the buyer a percentage of the purchase price is essentially charging the buyer twice which in my opinion is sheer greed and stifles the market as buyers have to offer significantly less to cover the fees.

Secondly, If you have not signed anything with the agent then i would say that you are not obliged to go through them as no contract has been formed. You can approach the vendor yourself and deal with them directly thus mitigating the 3% fee (unless the vendor has an exclusivity agreement in place with the agent in which case you would have to wait until that expired). Did the agent tell you before the viewing that there was a 3% buyers fee? Is the property not on with another agent? If you don't want to approach direct, the other thing you could do is negotiate their fee down with them. Remember, if they don't do a deal they open themselves up to losing all commission. Most agents will negotiate.. And of course, as others have said, build the comms into your offer and work from there.


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