# Spain's population falls as immigrants flee crisis



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Interesting news...


> The number of residents fell by 206,000 to 47.1 million, the National Statistics Institute said on Monday, a figure entirely accounted for by the fall in the number of registered foreign residents.





> ...Not only are immigrants returning home; many Spaniards are also leaving to look for work abroad. The youth unemployment rate is higher than 50 percent.


Full (short) article here
Spain population | Immigrants leave Spain because of the crisis | EITB News Life


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Very interesting news.... Here in strawberry growing land there is very little change... Even the locals are now flocking back to the production lines as te crisis deepens..which will inevitably stand on a few immigrants toes. They have to pay for the first communion parties somehow! Petty crime is escalating and more Brits desperate to sell houses at a massive loss.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Nonnamags said:


> Very interesting news.... Here in *strawberry growing land there is very little change... *


Where's that?
The only strawberry growing region I know of is Aranjuez and I don't think you're there...


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

There are lots of strawberry growing land in Spain, where I am from, Extremadura, or even in La Rioja or Navarra, and pretty much every region in Spain, including my own garden, lol! - but around 90% of strawberries in Spain come from Huelva. 

Spain is the second Spain is now the first country (worldwide) exporter of strawberries and the second in production, just behind the United States.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lolito said:


> There are lots of strawberry growing land in Spain, where I am from, Extremadura, or even in La Rioja or Navarra, and pretty much every region in Spain, including my own garden, lol! - but around 90% of strawberries in Spain come from Huelva.
> 
> Spain is the second Spain is now the first country (worldwide) exporter of strawberries and the second in production, just behind the United States.


Ahh Huelva, had forgotten about Huelva, but true, strawberries can be grown pretty much anywhere due to the artificial conditions that make it possible.
But more than where strawberries are grown, I wanted to know which region the previous poster was talking about


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Nonnamags said:


> Very interesting news.... Here in strawberry growing land there is very little change... Even the locals are now flocking back to the production lines as te crisis deepens..which will inevitably stand on a few immigrants toes. They have to pay for the first communion parties somehow! Petty crime is escalating and more Brits desperate to sell houses at a massive loss.


El pueblo es Lucena del Puerto - the land that time forgot! Has advantages but these, I fear, are greatly outweighed by the disadvantages. People are wonderful, but the beurocracy is another matter......! We've only just got outside seating for the bars!!! And that's cos they can't stroke inside lol:clap2::clap2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Interestingly, the original article and the source of this "earth shattering" news refers to Romanians and and Moroccans as being the most numerous of the immigrants but those who are leaving are those from Latin America. So what happened to all those rumours about the Brits leaving in droves or was that just more advertorial for various "selling your home", "money transfer" and other companies trying to sell their wares?


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2013)

I know two people who are leaving Spain. A fellow from the UK is selling his house to return to the UK because he cannot find work anymore. And, a young spanish lad who sees no future for himself in Spain, and after being overworked by an american company in Madrid, he's looking at Canada.

Too bad really as both are bright creative men.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

We believe that the population of El Hierro has been reduced by 20%, many ran way when the volcano erupted, some have returned to Spain, others have emigrated to Australia. There isn't much work here so the young have to leave in order to prosper and survive.

I also grow strawberries


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

"So what happened to all those rumours about the Brits leaving in droves" - How would they tell how many Brits are leaving. Even if they registered on the padron, they are probably still on it. There doesn't appear to be any (believable) records on EU citizens' movements.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> "So what happened to all those rumours about the Brits leaving in droves" - How would they tell how many Brits are leaving. Even if they registered on the padron, they are probably still on it. There doesn't appear to be any (believable) records on EU citizens' movements.


This is fact, not rumour. let's forget about the word "droves" and dwell on some reality - some long term Brit residents of Spain have returned to the UK some fulltime, some part-time. Opportunities for decent income have dwindled over the past five years. There is not the casual type work available as what used to be.

I reckon most of the Brits who returned "fulltime" to the UK will return to Spain especially during the off season Oct/Nov and Jan/April. The older they are the more likely that they will return to Spain. If the option is there people will use it and why not?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> "So what happened to all those rumours about the Brits leaving in droves" - How would they tell how many Brits are leaving. Even if they registered on the padron, they are probably still on it. There doesn't appear to be any (believable) records on EU citizens' movements.


I know of a few people who have left and know many more who are keen to leave but are stuck with unsaleable property.

There does seem to be a substantial exodus of British immigrants as well as the other nationalities.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Some of the people I know who have either repatriated or need to, are actually retired people. They can't cope with the heat, there isn't a substancial expat community, and they live in isolation, with huge amounts of land. So, too much work, no social life to speak of and why they are surprised at the temperatures beats me! Winters are tough, when you throw in no central heating into the mix.... Research is always worth it's weight in gold!


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Any changes on the house prices? Still falling, yes?


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

*House prices*



Sirtravelot said:


> Any changes on the house prices? Still falling, yes?


Falling like a stone....and empty fincas are being burgled, vandalised,looted, etc. even the metal rejas from the windows have been nicked for scrap....worrying times for those who need to move.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

Sirtravelot said:


> Any changes on the house prices? Still falling, yes?


Here in Asturias prices have fallen 30% since 2008 and at the moment no one is buying with one exception: yesterday La Nueva España reported that there are wealthy buyers from Russia, the UK, Belgium and the United Emirates seeking coastal properties and offering large sums of money for said properties.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mysticsmick said:


> Here in Asturias prices have fallen 30% since 2008 and at the moment no one is buying with one exception: yesterday La Nueva España *reported that there are wealthy buyers from Russia, the UK, Belgium and the United Emirates seeking coastal properties and offering large sums of money for said properties.*


In Asturias?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nonnamags said:


> Falling like a stone....and empty fincas are being burgled, vandalised,looted, etc. even the metal rejas from the windows have been nicked for scrap....worrying times for those who need to move.


That's happening round here too. There's a large house five minutes down the road from us completely stripped even down to locks, cabling and switches. Ten years ago, maybe five years, it would have fetched 1-2 million euros. 

A house two doors down the street from us, empty for over five years, was broken into and occupied. We're presuming something illicit was going on there as Ntional Police with sniffer dogs were there for three days.

All this in a supposedly 'posh' area...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Around here, prices have fallen by about 20% since 2007 when we bought ours. On the other hand, house-prices here were not over-inflated in the first place, like they were in many other parts.


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Unfortunately, as typical Brits the looneys are out on Yahoo! and have been for a number of days. I did say this would happen on here on another thread in that there would be a backlash of opinion against expats returning to the UK and "claiming benefits and housing" etc. Well sadly those comments have started and undoubtedly will continue to do so. The BBC is not really helping either as it is currently running a story about Spaniards relocating to Wales, which is already considered by the EU as one of the most depressed areas of the EU (eligible for Objective 1 funding for a long time and wasted by our so called politicians).

Times are difficult for everyone and perhaps grasping greed by the few should be made a capital offence, I certainly would pull the string on the drop knife thingy. Ah well we can but dream of justice, equality, fairness and a Utopian Society.

regards


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

IanB said:


> Unfortunately, as typical Brits the looneys are out on Yahoo! and have been for a number of days. I did say this would happen on here on another thread in that there would be a backlash of opinion against expats returning to the UK and "claiming benefits and housing" etc. Well sadly those comments have started and undoubtedly will continue to do so. The BBC is not really helping either as it is currently running a story about Spaniards relocating to Wales, which is already considered by the EU as one of the most depressed areas of the EU (eligible for Objective 1 funding for a long time and wasted by our so called politicians).
> 
> Times are difficult for everyone and perhaps grasping greed by the few should be made a capital offence, I certainly would pull the string on the drop knife thingy. Ah well we can but dream of justice, equality, fairness and a Utopian Society.
> 
> regards


On the what??


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Used to be called "Madame Guillotine" and was supplied via convoys of tumbrils. I already have a red white and blue rosette but the car boot sales don't seem to have many cockade hats on sale these days. LOL


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh and sorry I also know a number of ladies who can both knit and count at the same time.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

IanB said:


> Used to be called "Madame Guillotine" and was supplied via convoys of tumbrils. I already have a red white and blue rosette but the car boot sales don't seem to have many cockade hats on sale these days. LOL


Do you mean 'Tricorn' hats? - the cockade was a 'badge' showing allegiences often affixed to a hat, not the hat itself.

Tricorn hats in Spain are now moostly worn by the Guardia Civil or ceremonial troops.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> In Asturias?


Yes. The article mentioned that the focus of most of the inquires are on coastal properties. The article stated that these buyers were looking for holiday homes. Some offers rose to 750,000€, but there was no mention of what that would have bought. Many inquires regarding coastal properties came with asking for private beaches, which the article mentioned do not exist in Spain.

The article was not available online, but you can find it in yesterday's (24/04/2013) La Nueva España.


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Do you mean 'Tricorn' hats? - the cockade was a 'badge' showing allegiences often affixed to a hat, not the hat itself.
> 
> Tricorn hats in Spain are now moostly worn by the Guardia Civil or ceremonial troops.


Yes in exactitude, however I obtained from someone who knows a hell of a lot more about the French Revolution than I do, it appears that Robespierre preferred his revolutionaries to wear the Bicorn hat. Just two turn ups of the brim not three. Often worn side to side in France but fore and aft being the preferred method in Britain it would seem. When it appeared with a rosette attached (technically the cockade as you correctly say) they coined a vernacular phrase for it which meant "cockade hat" particularly if it was black.

As I said that is the opinion of one scholar of the Revolution who took great delight in explaining it to me.

regards


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mysticsmick said:


> Yes. The article mentioned that the focus of most of the inquires are on coastal properties. The article stated that these buyers were looking for holiday homes. Some offers rose to 750,000€, but there was no mention of what that would have bought. Many inquires regarding coastal properties came with asking for private beaches, which the article mentioned do not exist in Spain.
> 
> The article was not available online, but you can find it in yesterday's (24/04/2013) La Nueva España.


Fascinating! I thought they would have focused more on property down south. That's good news.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> Fascinating! I thought they would have focused more on property down south. That's good news.


Could you say why you think this is good news? I am wondering because I am not so sure it is good news and would like to have another perspective.


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## Jumar (Mar 14, 2012)

mysticsmick said:


> Could you say why you think this is good news? I am wondering because I am not so sure it is good news and would like to have another perspective.


I started to answer this but then deleted it because I thought it might look as though I am racist (I´m not). All I can say is that Spain needs to look forward to the long term and not just for a short term quick fix.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2013)

jaws101 said:


> I started to answer this but then deleted it because I thought it might look as though I am racist (I'm not). All I can say is that Spain needs to look forward to the long term and not just for a short term quick fix.


What quick fix is there in wealthy non-spanish property buyers seeking coastal vacation homes?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mysticsmick said:


> What quick fix is there in wealthy non-spanish property buyers seeking coastal vacation homes?


How about
1. there is a limted number of buyers
2. there is a limited number of suitable properties
3. once it's sold it's gone
4. it only looks good on paper and the transfer of wealth only goes into private pockets
5. it does the general economy of Spain not one iota of good (well maybe just ONE iota through the taxes assuming they aren't evaded)
6. it doesn't put wages into the hands of those who have no income
7. it doesn't put food onto the tables of those who need it nor into the bellies of children who are living on scraps
8. etc.

i.e., it is just a feel good story to bolster the image of those doing the property deals and just a waste of time producing the story and and equal waste of time reading it!


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

I know of about 20 couples who have left our small area alone due to the economic crisis.

Any home left empty hereabouts is literally stripped down to bare brick, wiring, doors, sanitary fittings the list is endless regarding what is taken, even fencing around gardens.

It is so bad here now it isn't wise to leave your property unattended as the police hereabouts won't bother to come when called unless guns are mentioned. On occasion the would be burglars have called the police, reported the home owner has threatened them with a gun, in march the fuzz, arrest the house owner, carting him away and lo and behold the property is left unattended and robbed because of.

House prices from what I have seen have plummeted. A house in a nearby village to ours was up for sale and sold 4 years ago at 220,000 euros. Four years down the line it is up for sale again, due to the couple not being able to make ends meet on their pensions. New price, 85,000 euros and talk is, they are about to reduce it even further. Now whilst some homes haven't dropped in price by so much, fact is, if you want to sell and you want to sell fast, as some folk do, you are looking at massive losses and even if you do put it on the market for below the market price (or what the estate agents say it is worth) there is no guarentees that you will get so much as a viewing much less a sale. 
It is just crazy.
Just as the new law is.
The one the Spanish Government are legislating in, wherein they are going to make it illegal for private individuals to rent out their homes (via internet sites I seem to remember being mentioned) as holiday lets. If this is done to my mind at least you have a recipe for yet more people leaving the area. For some this was the only option available by which they could stay here in Spain. The income they would generate from the family renting their home (whilst the homeowner moved back into the caravan they had whilst they were renovating/building their house) is the only income they have coming in. I know of 3 people in our region who thanks to the recession have no work (they were builders and the like) and have taken over the last few years (because lets face it things have been going down the pan for a while now) to renting their homes out to holidaymakers. 
I also know a couple of businesses, once thriving affairs reliant on holiday makers for their income are now struggling and who are both hanging on by their fingernails. Most of their customers stay in privately rented accomodation, which means if this law regarding making such illegal is made fact, chances are they will go down with a crash. But these are not the only people. Look at the restaurant trade. Look at the bars. So many have closed in some towns it is like a desert when it comes to finding places to eat or have a drink. 

Where once I could say on my weekly shopping trip to the local supermarkets I would meet up with at least one Brit on my travels, I am lucky now if I see one a month and most of them are saying they don't know how much longer they can hang on for.

So the surmisation that ex-pats are leaving in droves is pretty spot on in my estimations.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

& here the biggest sellers are the British with the Russians the biggest buyers . Up 40% in some areas. We also have now, twice daily flights from Moscow to Alicante & St. Petersburg to Alicante has started twice a week, as from this week.

They also have money to spend & probably the situation will increase even more now with the debacle in Cyprus ! Yes , there are still British buying in my area but compared to the Russians /east europeans there is no contest ! 

Money talks, but the ruble roars | In English | EL PAÍS


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

JoCatalunya said:


> I know of about 20 couples who have left our small area alone due to the economic crisis.
> 
> Any home left empty hereabouts is literally stripped down to bare brick, wiring, doors, sanitary fittings the list is endless regarding what is taken, even fencing around gardens.
> 
> ...



Long time no post,Jo. Welcome back

You paint a depressing picture but it seems that what you describe is indeed happening all over Spain.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Long time no post,Jo. Welcome back
> 
> You paint a depressing picture but it seems that what you describe is indeed happening all over Spain.


Thanks, good to be back.

Catalunya is drowning in debt so much so that they have implemented stinging cuts that literally are forcing people onto the breadline. 
A friend of mine, a lovely Catalan lady who works for the local health authority 'Cat Salut' has had her wages cut by 3000 euros a year meaning her once very well paid job of 14,000 a year with overtime (which has been stopped altogether) has dropped to 11,000 a year. Okay, this might seem a fairly good wage to some. But not to others who have a mortgage, car payments, kids to pay for etc, etc.
Luckily her house is paid for, she has only a small car loan to pay and her son is grown up. But some of her friends are not so lucky.

Houses are being repossessed daily, the list in the local court house is sometimes 5 or 6 pages of A4 daily. No one knows where these people go once their houses are taken from them. 

We do know the crime rate has soared in our region. Houses, flats, apartments etc etc are being ransacked, almacens, cassitas, cars are being cleaned out.

The majority of those caught by the police appear to be from the former eastern block. Huge gangs are operating in the areas, their nefarious activities co-ordinated on a grand scale. Truck loads of stolen items have been seized on their way out of Spain. 

Last year one bank literally closed its doors on its customers with their money inside, never to reopen again. Over 1000 families lost everything (it was a local town bank) overnight.
This year, in fact this month 2 banks in this region have declared themselves to be or virtually be bankrupt. One of the banks has refused the people with savings in their vaults access to them because they have invested the whole lot on the stock market to try and pull back their losses. 

Food and fuel here has gone up by 40%. That is not an exageration, but fact. A bottle of gas has risen in price in the last 3 months by 1 euro a month and is now 18 euros a bottle.

It is getting so bad no one knows what is going to happen, save more people are going to become destitute and desperate because of.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

It is good to see you back Jo . I was hoping that things might have improved for you up there but the picture you paint is quite depressing.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

gus-lopez said:


> It is good to see you back Jo . I was hoping that things might have improved for you up there but the picture you paint is quite depressing.


We are hanging on by the skin of our teeth up here, mainly because we wouldnt be able to sell our place for anything like what we would need just to pay the taxes, fees and last but not least the removal men.

I recently had my house re-evaluated for home insurance, (buildings) whereas once it was valued at 125,000 (whilst it was still being built) with its finished value being closer to 200,000, I was told it was valued now at 50,000.  

Luckily my bank manager tore up the report and didnt put it into head office.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> it is just a feel good story to bolster the image of those doing the property deals and just a waste of time producing the story and and equal waste of time reading it!


Too bad you had not read the article. I did not have that impression at all. Rather, a simple news article. I believe that's called reporting.


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

JoCatalunya said:


> We are hanging on by the skin of our teeth up here, mainly because we wouldnt be able to sell our place for anything like what we would need just to pay the taxes, fees and last but not least the removal men.
> 
> I recently had my house re-evaluated for home insurance, (buildings) whereas once it was valued at 125,000 (whilst it was still being built) with its finished value being closer to 200,000, I was told it was valued now at 50,000.
> 
> Luckily my bank manager tore up the report and didnt put it into head office.


Very distressing Jo. With the width of spread of this economic disease across the whole of Europe, I have to ask myself if the derided and denigrated conspiracy theorists are not right in their interpretations (often backed by verifiable facts) that all this misery is not deliberate in a vain to keep us masses in poverty, divided and therefore controllable. No one in high office can be so inept and lack any compassion at all, can they?

regards


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

*complementary tax*



JoCatalunya said:


> I know of about 20 couples who have left our small area alone due to the economic crisis.
> 
> Any home left empty hereabouts is literally stripped down to bare brick, wiring, doors, sanitary fittings the list is endless regarding what is taken, even fencing around gardens.
> 
> ...


If anyone buys that house for 85000 or lower,reduced from 220,000 then look out for a huge tax bill for complementary tax!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

IanB said:


> Very distressing Jo. With the width of spread of this economic disease across the whole of Europe, I have to ask myself if the derided and denigrated conspiracy theorists are not right in their interpretations (often backed by verifiable facts) that all this misery is not deliberate in a vain to keep us masses in poverty, divided and therefore controllable. No one in high office can be so inept and lack any compassion at all, can they?
> 
> regards


I wish we could lose the label of conspiracy theory when, in these circumstances all people are saying is don't believe all the lines those in power feed you. That's not a conspiracy theory. That's keeping your eyes and ears open, being aware. It's questioning people in authority and not just accepting. It's looking after you and yours.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wish we could lose the label of conspiracy theory when, in these circumstances all people are saying is don't believe all the lines those in power feed you. That's not a conspiracy theory. That's keeping your eyes and ears open, being aware. It's questioning people in authority and not just accepting. It's looking after you and yours.


I agree. I don't believe much of what politicians say - or anybody whose aim is to sell me something, whether an object, a policy or an opinion.

A few years ago I spent a lot of money on Age-defying Makeup, which I diligently applied as per instructions.
It didn't do what it said on the tin.
Lying *******s


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wish we could lose the label of conspiracy theory when, in these circumstances all people are saying is don't believe all the lines those in power feed you. That's not a conspiracy theory. That's keeping your eyes and ears open, being aware. It's questioning people in authority and not just accepting. It's looking after you and yours.


I agree completely with you PW. Because I have found that despite the label, a lot of what is said can be verified by simply looking around, as you say with a questioning mind. I have read some complete horror stories both current and past which many have derided and used the disparaging title "conspiracy theory and hence garbage" when they can be substantiated with a number of corroborative pieces of evidence. These are instances which are far beyond the realms of the fiction writers worst nightmares.

Just a couple of examples may serve to illustrate. The American Holocaust. Facilities without a doubt have been built and are maintained. The Illuminati. Much derided, much discussed and ridiculed, yet the actions and followers of Adam Weishaupt can be traced directly in to the second half of the twentieth century along with their influence and the practical applications of their beliefs.

I now adopt the stance and have done for many years that my so called betters in politics, public servants and all in public life are lying to me and about me, in fact to the extent that when a politician of any hue tells me something cannot happen then it is a sure thing that it can and will happen.

regards


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

IanB said:


> I agree completely with you PW. Because I have found that despite the label, a lot of what is said can be verified by simply looking around, as you say with a questioning mind. I have read some complete horror stories both current and past which many have derided and used the disparaging title "conspiracy theory and hence garbage" when they can be substantiated with a number of corroborative pieces of evidence. These are instances which are far beyond the realms of the fiction writers worst nightmares.
> 
> Just a couple of examples may serve to illustrate. The American Holocaust. Facilities without a doubt have been built and are maintained. The Illuminati. Much derided, much discussed and ridiculed, yet the actions and followers of Adam Weishaupt can be traced directly in to the second half of the twentieth century along with their influence and the practical applications of their beliefs.
> 
> ...


The biggest clue ever to a huge lie coming your way was MT's "And YOU know..."


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> How about
> 1. there is a limted number of buyers
> 2. there is a limited number of suitable properties
> 3. once it's sold it's gone
> ...


Hi - well said! Could I add another point to your list, please? 

Having lived previously in both Devon and Cornwall (similar to Asturias, in several ways), I know that 'second home' owners have caused several rural and coastal communities to lose their pubs, Primary schools, post offices, shops and access to public transport! 
In Winter months there are often no house lights to be seen, on streets where properties are boarded up until Spring. You can imagine the effect on small communities, where residents would, previously, have been able to count on their neighbours for socialising, support and help, especially in times of need! Now, isolation is often a real factor, with temporarily empty, silent houses all around. 

A friend who lives in St. Ives, Cornwall, England bought her house on one of the long, terraced streets adjacent to the harbour. When I visited her, there, one Winter's day, we counted over seventeen 'second homes' in a street with some twenty six properties - come nightfall, all of the former were in darkness! That modest street was fast becoming far too expensive for local Cornish people to consider for house purchase - so much for preserving some semblance of life and culture there - it was seriously under threat and vanishing fast!

Some years ago, I watched a BBC SW News story on SW Lifeboats - and the risk to the traditional means of recruitment. Volunteer crew must live and work within a certain distance from the Lifeboat Station so as to be available to launch and crew the boats as soon as a distress call is made. The effect of second home ownership, along the Cornish coastline had caused a steep rise in house prices and a lack of properties to buy, especially in smaller communities where there were few new-builds and low wages for local people! There was real concern that the great tradition of volunteer lifeboatmen, imbued with local knowledge of the coastline and its hazards, was being put under threat! 

I'm not up to date on that situation, now, but, in Asturias, where I also lived for several years, I could well imagine similar problems in future, re. the malign impact of second home ownership in sparsely populated areas - where local employment (fishing, farming, tourism) is likely to be low paid and even part-time. Post-crisis, house prices in scenic locations could become artificially inflated and locals, brought up within extended family networks, could find their communities becoming ghost towns and villages, with few essential services! 

That genuine Celtic culture with its wonderful Asturian traditions, might also then be undermined - replaced by plastic bagpipes, tacky polyester dance costumes and factory-produced cider made with laboratory- produced apple 'aromas' , once the orchards have been grubbed up for yet more holiday homes to be sold to non-resident foreigners! 

No, the prospect of foreign money buying up the stunning Asturian coastline and campo for their second homes, would not, IMO, be a good thing. I do hope that the province is able to resist such destruction as is evident across many parts of Southern Spain!

Saludos,
GC


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi - well said! Could I add another point to your list, please?
> 
> Having lived previously in both Devon and Cornwall (similar to Asturias, in several ways), I know that 'second home' owners have caused several rural and coastal communities to lose their pubs, Primary schools, post offices, shops and access to public transport!
> In Winter months there are often no house lights to be seen, on streets where properties are boarded up until Spring. You can imagine the effect on small communities, where residents would, previously, have been able to count on their neighbours for socialising, support and help, especially in times of need! Now, isolation is often a real factor, with temporarily empty, silent houses all around.
> ...


I used to live in a village in North Wales where a similar situation was more fuel to the fires of the Welsh Nationalists which often spread to burning holiday homes.

It occurred to me the other night that Eastern Europeans (including Russians) buying up coastal properties, especially with private beaches could possibly be linked to the Russian mafia and the drugs that come ashore in the northwestern corner of the peninsula.... It was just a thought.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

IanB said:


> I agree completely with you PW. Because I have found that despite the label, a lot of what is said can be verified by simply looking around, as you say with a questioning mind. I have read some complete horror stories both current and past which many have derided and used the disparaging title "conspiracy theory and hence garbage" when they can be substantiated with a number of corroborative pieces of evidence. These are instances which are far beyond the realms of the fiction writers worst nightmares.
> 
> Just a couple of examples may serve to illustrate. The American Holocaust. Facilities without a doubt have been built and are maintained. The Illuminati. Much derided, much discussed and ridiculed, yet the actions and followers of Adam Weishaupt can be traced directly in to the second half of the twentieth century along with their influence and the practical applications of their beliefs.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure that all of those "betters" as you say are actually lying, but just seeing or telling one side of the story is usually enough to distort the truth. Omitting other pertinent information is another tactic and then we get to manipulating and lying.
Conspiracy theory smacks of people thinking it's amaturish, it's hype, it's not to be believed when in reality it's the original story that's not to be believed!
I just think that it's very healthy to question and look at things from different angles. The problem for me is that I can't always find that other angle, which is why reading a forum comes in handy!


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> It occurred to me the other night that Eastern Europeans (including Russians) buying up coastal properties, especially with private beaches could possibly be linked to the Russian mafia and the drugs that come ashore in the northwestern corner of the peninsula.... It was just a thought.


Yes, that is exactly what occurred to me... and more. European governments are selling off public services and spaces as a result of the "Shock Doctrine"... so what happens when some super wealthy individual starts pushing for his/her private beach? A private helicopter landing pad? Suddenly private security guards start patrolling? The list of negative possibilities is startling.

And, does anybody know if indeed there are private beaches on the spanish coasts?


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

I seem to remember there aren't. Wasn't there a huge stink raised when they shut down part of a beach down south for Michelle Obama? I *believe* all Spanish beaches must be public.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

A section of a beach in Tenerife has just been made exclusive to paying customers.


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## Karen58 (Aug 1, 2012)

Calas felices said:


> "So what happened to all those rumours about the Brits leaving in droves" - How would they tell how many Brits are leaving. Even if they registered on the padron, they are probably still on it. There doesn't appear to be any (believable) records on EU citizens' movements.


I believe the true figures will not appear for at least 1-2 years when padron records are processed correctly. Many Brits are planning to leave once their properties sell but that might take a very long time. Also I believe there is a reluctance for the government in Spain to release anymore negativity about the population as has a bad effect on the markets and EU decisions... but all will be revealed in time.


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## Editor (Aug 20, 2009)

*Expats leaving Spain cause first population fall since 1857*

As the unemployment rate has soared to 26% in Spain many expats are leaving at a time when the country’s population has fallen for the first time since records began in 1857. Figures from the National Statistics Institutes show that the number of residents fell by 206,000 to 47.1 million and this drop is entirely [...]

Click to read the full news article: Expats leaving Spain cause first population fall since 1857...
Please come back to discuss the story here in this thread.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Editor said:


> As the unemployment rate has soared to *26%* in Spain many expats are leaving at a time when the country’s population has fallen for the first time since records began in 1857. Figures from the National Statistics Institutes show that the number of residents fell by 206,000 to 47.1 million and this drop is entirely [...]
> 
> Click to read the full news article: Expats leaving Spain cause first population fall since 1857...
> Please come back to discuss the story here in this thread.


Actually, this went up to 27.2% in last week's announcement.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Editor said:


> As the unemployment rate has soared to 26% in Spain many expats are leaving at a time when the country’s population has fallen for the first time since records began in 1857. Figures from the National Statistics Institutes show that the number of residents fell by 206,000 to 47.1 million and this drop is entirely [...]
> 
> Click to read the full news article: Expats leaving Spain cause first population fall since 1857...
> Please come back to discuss the story here in this thread.


2010-2011 the population fell 47,203,000 to 47,190,000 which only comes to 13,000 of which there was a decrease in live births according to the figures of 12,699 and an increase in deaths of 5,783 so somewhere there is a mathematical inexactitude... 206,000 decrease???? Expats cannot be blamed for poor maths!


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