# Asking to Offer prices



## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Hi new to this forum

Will be renting then buying in Spain later this year.

My question is just a general one about asking prices compared to sale prices.

I see lots of properties for sale on various sites kyero.com for example.

What is generally the sale price compared to the asking price?

Is there any site that lists sale prices for an area like there does in the UK?

What % of asking price would be a good level to make an offer price?


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

I would say generally a 20% offer below the asking price to start with. 

Although it all depends, how many years been on the market, how many times prices went down, original price, etc. 

As a rule, according the some estate agents I have seen this week, you should start with 20% off.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

I am an Estate Agent and in general people are offering 25% below the asking price. House prices do very from area to area as do rentals.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Thanks for the replies


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

It much depends on what you think it is really worth to you, for example how many boxes does it tick? If it ticks ALL of them then go for nearer the asking price, if it ticks none of them - walk away, i.e. why are you wasting your time and that of the vendor?


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

If it looks really cheap already maybe the seller is already at the end of what they can take. I think it is different for different people. I offered 10% less because the house had already come down from 380, 320 to 280. At the last figure there was a lot more interest and I already knew I was getting a deal, they accepted 260.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Info about the price of housing 
fotocasa.es: informe del precio medio de la vivienda en España y su evolución.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Thanks... very interesting the fotocasa analysis


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## ExpatWannabee (Jul 6, 2011)

The other question is: at what percentage of asking do you buy? In the area where I rent (Greater Valencia area) there are houses in good condition that have been on the market for 3+ years. So I certainly wouldn't pay as much as 80 percent of asking. I appreciate this will vary from area to area and within areas.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

ExpatWannabee said:


> The other question is: at what percentage of asking do you buy? In the area where I rent (Greater Valencia area) there are houses in good condition that have been on the market for 3+ years. So I certainly wouldn't pay as much as 80 percent of asking. I appreciate this will vary from area to area and within areas.


This is where I disagree.

If a property has been on the market a long time, the price will (generally) have been dropped. The current, advertised price, may be 'correct'. How can you say "I certainly wouldn't pay as much as 80 percent of asking" - the price may already have dropped by 50% in the last week - how do you know?


There is no 'formula' for this - you can't say that one should offer x% below the advertised price. Sure you can try it on but it's not guaranteed.


I have always said that a property is only worth what you, or someone else, is prepared to pay for it. What does it really matter? One should not be buying in Spain to make a profit! 

If you can afford the price and the property is what you want, then pay it.


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## KayParkyn (May 4, 2013)

Cazzy said:


> I am an Estate Agent and in general people are offering 25% below the asking price. House prices do very from area to area as do rentals.


So I would be okay to negotiate the asking rent price down a bit? I am on a bit of a budget and every penny (sorry, cent) counts 
As we are looking for long term rentals it has to tick a few boxes but we are realistic people, we don't want 'holiday' properties, we want to find a Home.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

We own a house in the country which we never use. We rent in the town where we work. We negotiated the rent down from 450 a month to 310 a month, try it you never know.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Interesting subject, we've been regular visitors to the Kyero and other property pages.. 

One house I have been following which I first noticed a year or so ago, has just bumped it's price *UP* by over 15%.... 
Having got it on a 'watch list' I know what it's original price was, on paper it may' look' like a new listing_ (other one probably expired)_ I'm wondering if other sellers are now doing the same thing!!


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## KayParkyn (May 4, 2013)

Cazzy said:


> We own a house in the country which we never use. We rent in the town where we work. We negotiated the rent down from 450 a month to 310 a month, try it you never know.


 *ahem*
If you have a house you don't use, what about some reliable tenants lol!!!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

When we came over to look at houses the place we are in now we said we really like it but the rent was too much, that's all we said and the landlord came back and dropped around 800 euro from the asking price. We didn't even have to negotiate back and forth so it's always worth asking.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

We've been looking at houses for 9 months now...and I think I asked the same question as you when I first started looking.....but I think after a sustained period of veiwings you get a feel for the 'right' prices on properties yourself through your own experience.

I agree that a lot of the elements are variable, and there is also the personal appeal to you of a property that can effect its value to you personally.

It's all a bit theoretical...But if two identical houses have been on the market for four years, if one has not dropped, as opposed to one that has slowly reduced its asking price to try and encourage a sale, then you'll soon realise the market value by your own experience, and your offer on each will be relative.

After 9 months we feel we have a good idea of what we should be paying. We've even had a couple of occasions where we've viewed a property, and the estate agent has agreed with what we think it's actually worth. One in particular, which we really like, but have always felt was far too highly priced (€100,000 too high!!) made us uneasy because an offer on it would seem like an insult!...but on a recent visit the selling agent admitted if she valued it today it would be €110,000 lower than the current asking price!

...if prices continue to fall, then you adapt to the market, as a buyer, and as a seller.

I would therefore say there isn't an average 'offer below' percentage, it's all relative.....but I would say for a reasonably priced to sell property you are looking at nearer 10% than 20% nowadays.....but I can also think of quite a few properties that we've viewed that would be a considerably higher percentage because they are so much higher in price than the true market value.

In short, there is no substitute for getting out there and doing some (a lot!) of viewings 

Good luck in your search


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

KayParkyn said:


> *ahem*
> If you have a house you don't use, what about some reliable tenants lol!!!


We had tenants in our UK house and they trashed it, so we are slightly put off of letting.


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## KayParkyn (May 4, 2013)

Cazzy said:


> We had tenants in our UK house and they trashed it, so we are slightly put off of letting.


I can empathise with you there - my SIL and daughter had the same thing happen to them here, it cost them loads to put right. 
They were extremely wary about reletting but 'touch wood' they have good tenants now.
Anyway, as it happens, my comment was 'tongue in cheek', as we are looking for places on the coast, not as far in as you.
Is it true that temperatures were recorded reaching 52° last summer? Too hot for me lol


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

KayParkyn said:


> I can empathise with you there - my SIL and daughter had the same thing happen to them here, it cost them loads to put right.
> They were extremely wary about reletting but 'touch wood' they have good tenants now.
> Anyway, as it happens, my comment was 'tongue in cheek', as we are looking for places on the coast, not as far in as you.
> Is it true that temperatures were recorded reaching 52° last summer? Too hot for me lol


Ecija is known as the frying pan of Europe!


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

KayParkyn said:


> I can empathise with you there - my SIL and daughter had the same thing happen to them here, it cost them loads to put right.
> They were extremely wary about reletting but 'touch wood' they have good tenants now.
> Anyway, as it happens, my comment was 'tongue in cheek', as we are looking for places on the coast, not as far in as you.
> Is it true that temperatures were recorded reaching 52° last summer? Too hot for me lol



Yes very hot in Ecija, but you get used to it!! In summer it is often 10 degrees hotter than the CDS.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Our house has been on the market for some time now so we have dropped the price to as low as we are prepared (or able) to go.

Discussing it with our agent we decided to ask for the lower price but have said 'no offers'. 

I do not like the way houses are priced (here and in UK) then a percentage added to enable someone to make an offer.

Buying a house should be like buying other things. You see the price and if you like it and are happy with the price you buy it.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

DunWorkin said:


> Our house has been on the market for some time now so we have dropped the price to as low as we are prepared (or able) to go.
> 
> Discussing it with our agent we decided to ask for the lower price but have said 'no offers'.
> 
> ...


Any asking price is only an estimate on what things have sold for recently that are similar to what you're selling....obviously that fluctuates.

But it must be hard to realistically value things in Spain because very little was selling....I think things are starting to move now, but it's only those that have reduced to a reasonable level, or accepted an offer(??). I don't think that is so different in the uk to be honest.

It's not a great place to be for owners, but I'm sure places will only sell if they're at a level which entices buyers in and makes it financially viable for them. Personally as a buyer I think buying at the right price is very important in Spain, as the market is still very likely to be still dropping...and nobody wants to buy a place this year, that is worth considerably less next year. We're buying a home, so it's not as important, but it's still just as economically sensible to make sure you but at what you are happy with to minimise the risk.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

In my street, there are 12 houses exactly the same, built by the same company, all the same inside and outside. One is going for 250,000, another for 180,000 and another for 140,000. Go figure. 

If I go shopping for some trousers and I find exactly the same ones cheaper in another shop, then I buy the cheaper one. 

Houses work the same for me. 

Regarding 52 degrees in Ecija, Spain, that's not right. The hottest ever temp registered in the WORLD was the 10 of July 1913 in Death Valley, USA, and it was 56,7 degrees centígrades.

Here in Spain the record was in July 1994, in Murcia, with 47.2.

It rarely goes over 40, in coastal places.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lolito said:


> In my street, there are 12 houses exactly the same, built by the same company, all the same inside and outside. One is going for 250,000, another for 180,000 and another for 140,000. Go figure.
> 
> If I go shopping for some trousers and I find exactly the same ones cheaper in another shop, then I buy the cheaper one.
> 
> ...


They may look the same, but they may vary in
heating , central heating
air conditioning
additions-pools, grilles, solar, 
condition, decorative state etc
furnishings
Owner's circumstances
Probably not enough to justify 100k difference, but maybe the owner of the cheapest house is desperate to sell due to illness etc, maybe already has a house in UK, so can afford to sell cheaper.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Scenario:

You are in a block of apartments and the one next door goes up for sale at the same asking price as yours (assuming like-for-like features). After a couple of months the owner drops the price by 20% and sells.

Do you maintain your asking price and "no offers" instruction? 

Where I live in the UK, I can now see agents advertising that offers of 300k have been given on a house with an asking price of 270k. That's what happens when the market swings the other way.

Fact is, anything you own and wish to sell is worth what you can get for it, regardless of what you think it's worth. Property, jewels, paintings, family pet. It's all the same.







DunWorkin said:


> Our house has been on the market for some time now so we have dropped the price to as low as we are prepared (or able) to go.
> 
> Discussing it with our agent we decided to ask for the lower price but have said 'no offers'.
> 
> ...


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Well, I have been inside them all, apart from one, the good thing about this is that we all know each other very well and have lots of parties (BBQ, etc.) and I know they are all the same, only 5 are privately owned, the other 7 are rented. Even the rent is different, some people are paying 700 a month and some 500 ... (although we have been told not to say this to the other tenants!). 

To be fair, the one at 250,000 is exactly the same as ours, just in the other corner, and apart from having an open kitchen/living room, the rest is the same. 

Not sure how it works,but they do have different agents charging different amounts.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> They may look the same, but they may vary in
> heating , central heating
> air conditioning
> additions-pools, grilles, solar,
> ...


from a purchaser's point of view though, all things being equal, you buy the cheapest - & it matters not WHY the owner is prepared to accept less


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Forgot to say the 12 houses belong to the same construction company, apart from the 5 that they have been sold. The remaining 7 houses all have different prices ranging from 250k to 160k.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

All this sounds very unpalatable for owners desperate to sell but are not dropping the price to market realities.

In my case I will be buying the best I can get for my money. The less I spend on a house... the more I have to live on 

The recent report I read on Fotocasa still seems to indicate a downward trend and the falls in the past 2 years have been shocking.
But this seems to be in line with all crashes, as initially prices cling on for a long time before finally falling off a cliff.
Personally I think rock bottom may yet be 18 months away.

I am looking for somewhere south of Valencia to Almeria... big area I know.

I will rent for as long as it takes too get a good understanding of the market in a particular area and expect to be house hunting full time for 6 months at least.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

promethian said:


> In my case I will be buying the best I can get for my money. The less I spend on a house... the more I have to live on


I think everyone buying tries to get the right balance, of desire for the property, and the price.

I think it's even more important not to overpay on a property in Spain, because like you say most of us will be wanting to live on the residue amount left to live on afterwards.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Lolito said:


> In my street, there are 12 houses exactly the same, built by the same company, all the same inside and outside. One is going for 250,000, another for 180,000 and another for 140,000. Go figure.
> 
> If I go shopping for some trousers and I find exactly the same ones cheaper in another shop, then I buy the cheaper one.
> 
> ...


Ecija does go into the 50's in summer, honest, I live there!!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I am selling and believe my house is realistically priced, having dropped 38% below the peak valuation of 2007. I would be prepared to negotiate the price, but certainly not 20%, I'm not that desperate. I want to move to another area but am not in desperate need to sell, so I'm not going to give my house away - would you?

Interestingly, I've already had four times more interest than last year, with visits from Brits, an investor from Dubai coming next month, and two visits this weekend - one from a local family and the other from a Chinese lady looking for investment properties to rent out.

This all suggests to me that those with money are thinking that now's the time to buy, that prices aren't going to drop much further.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

You're up against people who think Wikipedia contains the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.



Cazzy said:


> Ecija does go into the 50's in summer, honest, I live there!!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi Madliz,

It's good news that you are seeing more interest. 

I've just bought. I don't necessarily think it's the right time to buy from an investment point of view, I'm buying because I want a place to live in. I'm aware how prices have fallen and it does give some comfort that there probably isn't a huge amount more movement to come, but you never know. 

Would I give my house away? Well, no, obviously. But had I dropped 38% and was desperate to sell, and thought another 20% might do it. Well it all depends how desperate, doesn't it.

I put an offer in on a place before buying the one I am buying now. The Spanish owner asked the agent to explain to me what the asking price was in 2008. Why he thinks that's relevant to a buyer today I have no idea.




Madliz said:


> I am selling and believe my house is realistically priced, having dropped 38% below the peak valuation of 2007. I would be prepared to negotiate the price, but certainly not 20%, I'm not that desperate. I want to move to another area but am not in desperate need to sell, so I'm not going to give my house away - would you?
> 
> Interestingly, I've already had four times more interest than last year, with visits from Brits, an investor from Dubai coming next month, and two visits this weekend - one from a local family and the other from a Chinese lady looking for investment properties to rent out.
> 
> This all suggests to me that those with money are thinking that now's the time to buy, that prices aren't going to drop much further.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I find it all depends really, some of the way the houses are advertised and pitched to people it's no wonder they don't sell.
Why advertise a 2 bed house as a 5 bed and waste everybody's time?
Why lie about urban land and frankly I'm sick to death of the term "Todo legal" because it never is.

That said I can imagine on such properties you can offer up to 50% off if you wish and they may just take it.

The houses we have narrowed down are in my mind at least worth the money they are asking. Probably double that in truth and certainly started off being advertised at double the price.
Still that's not really of my concern, we wouldn't look at a property if it wasn't in our price range and would be prepared to pay asking price if need be.
A good structural survey can go a long way in dropping the asking price too but really I would rather them not come back with a long list of things that need fixing.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

If you don't look at properties advertised for at least 20% more than you are able and willing to pay you are not doing yourself any favours.

Let's say you have 200k. You see something advertised and offer 180k. They accept, you get the house, and you have 20k left in your pocket.

A week later, you see a much better house advertised for 200k. You discover that it was on the market while you were looking, but at 220k - it's just been reduced and you therefore didn't see it or disregarded it earlier.

You'll know this while you are going through the purchase process, and you might want to pull out. This scenario happens.




Pazcat said:


> I find it all depends really, some of the way the houses are advertised and pitched to people it's no wonder they don't sell.
> Why advertise a 2 bed house as a 5 bed and waste everybody's time?
> Why lie about urban land and frankly I'm sick to death of the term "Todo legal" because it never is.
> 
> ...


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Been there, done that though. Now we are at the pointy end and it's a case of either getting one house down into our price range or deciding on another that they aren't willing to drop much further.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Pazcat said:


> Been there, done that though. Now we are at the pointy end and it's a case of either getting one house down into our price range or deciding on another that they aren't willing to drop much further.


can you blame them?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Don't care really.
Like I said, it's well in the price range. Couldn't give a rats why. 
But is is a great opportunity to pick up a half a mill property for a pittance.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

It's not a great opportunity to get a half a mil property for a pittance.

You're picking up a what-you-pay-for-it property for what you pay for it.

If it's a half a mil property, buy it for a pittance and then sell it for half a mil. Only you won't sell it for half a mil, because nobody will buy it for that, will they.

The history is irrelevant, it's worth what somebody will pay for it today.



Pazcat said:


> Don't care really.
> Like I said, it's well in the price range. Couldn't give a rats why.
> But is is a great opportunity to pick up a half a mill property for a pittance.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Yes, it is.
Especially when said property cost that much to begin with, or likely even more. What I pay for it doesn't detract from the fact it cost more to begin with. It would seem to me if a property cost 500,000EU to build then it is in fact a 500,000EU property, regardless of market value.
History certainly is not irrelevant, although I can see how it may help make some people feel better.

You try buying a coastal 3 bed villa with sea views anywhere else in the world for under 250 grand in whichever currency you please.
It's not going to happen unless you happen to find other markets in similar situations.

I certainly couldn't get the same value for money on the Cote d'Azur, Gold Coast or even Brighton for that matter.
In fact it is the main factor we chose to come to Spain because we simply could not afford the rents or the purchase prices of the kind of house we are in now in the other options we had available at the time.

Resale value is irrelevant, it's a home to live in and not an opportunity to make some quick cash.
At the end of the day if we get our meager deposit and 6% or whatever for interest back then we have already done better than we would of if we were renting all the while living in a 
lovely house that would potentially cost anywhere up to a million outside of Spain.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

The problem is whilst there are still a lot of people desperate to sell, who are accepting really low offers, people who want a realistic amount for their property are unable to achieve it. For example I have a Cortijo (not me personally) which was for sale at 350,000 euro a year ago. The owner is desperate to sell and has dropped it to 120,000 euro. But people are making ridiculous offers on this price. The house is worth well in excess of the advertised value. My point is whatever you advertise at, people will offer you less, they don't care that the price has dropped significantly.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Are you seriously suggesting that 250 grand won't buy a coastal 3 bed villa anywhere else in this big wide world.

I see the caveat though, so I suppose I am not allowed to suggest Portugal, Cyprus, Greece, Italy, etc.

Not to worry, have you heard about Malysia's 2nd home program, under which the government gives tax breaks on the import and purchase of cars, low acquisition rates, etc. Have you been to the beautiful quiet mainland resorts in Thailand a couple of hours from Bangkok. For 250K you'll buy your villa and live the rest of your life.

Do you get out much?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well considering 500,000 Baht is equal to just under 12 grand I would say my statement is holding up. Do pay attention.

You can suggest anywhere you like, as you probably will but there is a difference between market value and cost value. Not my problem if you can't figure it out.

Also what does tax breaks on cars and imports have to do with it? 
2nd homes too? That's what got Spain into this mess in the first place.

And no I don't get out much as like most people we are tied to having to work for a living which as you may or may not know can limit ones opportunities to what is available and where. Hey if the Malays want to offer 100Keu a year to frolic around on some secluded island then count me in but until then I'll just get on with life and make the best of what lands at our doorstep.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Back to the original point then. You are buying a villa for x. That means it's worth x. Not more, not less.

Seeing as you can't grasp that basic concept, I'm out.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Book value and Market value are two entirely different concepts, it's seems you don't want to differentiate between them.
It's relatively simple.

What's the difference between book and market value?

If I buy somebodies 500K house for half that I am in fact buying a 500K house. For me the book value will be 250, but it doesn't change the initial book value of the property that I buy.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

The seller of your half a mil villa will be very pleased to know about book and market value, although he might be disappointed when his accountant explains that the only cash he has is the market value he got from you because the book value has vanished.

A bit like the book value of all those sub-prime mortgages that the banks claimed on their books, to make it look like they had a strong asset position. Governments are changing the rules now.

I shall remember this for the next dinner party. The "so what's your house worth" bragging sessions of 2002 through to 2007 can now change to, "so what's your book value". Ah, all those suffering in negative equity are fine, no worry folks, your book value is just the same as it always was.

Do you really think applying business accounting practises to individuals is relevant?

And now that I am back... just what has 500,000 being equal to 12k got to do with anything. The point stands.. in Thailand for 250k UK pounds you can have a beach front 3 bed villa where the garden gate opens onto the sand. I know because I stayed at one my friend owns last year.

Anyway, I don't want this turning into a nasty argument. I am pleased you're finding the house you want at what represents good value for money. I hope your purchase goes smoothly and that you enjoy your new home.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> Yes, it is.
> It would seem to me if a property cost 500,000EU to build then it is in fact a 500,000EU property, regardless of market value.
> 
> You try buying a coastal 3 bed villa with sea views anywhere else in the world for under 250 grand in whichever currency you please.
> It's not going to happen unless you happen to find other markets in similar situations.


If it cost , actually cost, 500k to build then you wouldn't be buying it as original selling price would have been 1,5 million.

The going rate back in the good times for building a 5bed,4bath, lounge , kitchen ,etc; etc, over 3 floors with double garage, including architect, project technician, all licences , all materials, keys in hand was less than 79k. This obviously didn't include the land .

Come down here . last time I looked down Águilas they were selling 3bed detached. , fenced gated, pool .sea view places not much over 150k.
trouble is with them you 've got to watch out for the 'ley de la Costas' with regard of distance from the high water line.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

I think it is very hard to discuss this subject without upsetting owners.....you have got to feel for them, because it is terrible to see your property slump in value. 

It's not a situation reserved for Spain though...I've just worked out that my house in the uk has reduced by 15% from its peak level. But I'm afraid as a seller I have to accept that if I want to sell now. If I can't accept it, then I'll either have to take it off the market, or have an overpriced house for sale for a very long time.

Ok, so 15% isn't as excessive as the 30-50% drop quoted in Spain....but the price levels were just plain ridiculous pre-2008!...and I mean ridiculous. I'm astounded anyone bought at the level they were, or could afford to finance them.

The truth is people are also putting in low offers in the uk, just as they are in Spain..it's a buyers market everywhere. And there is still the possibility that my house will have to be reduced further to sell it too. It's the way the market is, and you do have to accept it.

I think having viewed a lot of property in Spain now, I think the things that frustrate me the most are...

...the constant reference to what it was worth. This is totally irrelevant, just as it is if I was to tell viewers to my house what it was worth in 2007.

....the loading of prices to counteract a cheeky offer. I think this is just kidding yourself, because it not only stops the people in your 'true' price band viewing it, it's also detrimental to your property cos it makes it look overpriced, and any offer to buy it an insult to you, so people walk away or don't even view.

....the outdated valuation. A property that has been on the market for a while (maybe even years) but has refused to reduce the price to generate interest. This is daft, because even in the uk, I realise the longer my house is on the market, the more pressure there is to reduce the asking price. It's simple economics. I don't think anyone is so silly with their money now that they will be stupid enough to pay offer the odds because they haven't done their research......and being blinded by the sun and the hot weather isn't going to work as much now.

Having said all that there are a lot of owners starting to offer their properties at reasonable prices, and they are being rewarded with sales. There is definitely more interest this year than there was, but some unrealistic owners are using this increased confidence to stick by their guns at unrealistic prices....they'll remain unsold unfortunately.

It's just about being realistic, fair, and sensible.....that goes for Spain, the uk, or anywhere in my opinion.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> trouble is with them you 've got to watch out for the 'ley de la Costas' with regard of distance from the high water line.


And with climate change (are we allowed to mention that?) and rising seawater levels you will have to keep moving it backup the beach.

Western Antarctic ice sheet collapse has already begun, scientists warn | Environment | The Guardian


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

A house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it!!


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## SandraP (Apr 23, 2014)

we are lucky where we live in the UK, our house (well the same, on the same road) have increades in price in 4 years by almost 25% and that is the selling price, not the asking price.
When my husband & I move to Spain we will look at houses upto the price we are prepared to pay and we will put in a cheeky offer incase it gets accepted, but we will be prepared to pay the asking price. 
Almost everyone offers under the asking price, you can always increase your offer, but you cannot reduce it.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

SandraP said:


> we are lucky where we live in the UK, our house (well the same, on the same road) have increades in price in 4 years by almost 25% and that is the selling price, not the asking price.
> When my husband & I move to Spain we will look at houses upto the price we are prepared to pay and we will put in a cheeky offer incase it gets accepted, but we will be prepared to pay the asking price.
> Almost everyone offers under the asking price, you can always increase your offer, but you cannot reduce it.


A cheeky offer to me means a very cheeky response from me!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Thing is, the seller gets to hear the cheeky offer. The buyer won't hear the cheeky response because the agent will dress it up into a polite message about needing more before a deal can be done.



extranjero said:


> A cheeky offer to me means a very cheeky response from me!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Horlics said:


> Thing is, the seller gets to hear the cheeky offer. The buyer won't hear the cheeky response because the agent will dress it up into a polite message about needing more before a deal can be done.


When I was selling my house in the UK, one buyer made a particularly cheeky offer and the agent was quite pushy about it, saying "but he's a cash buyer". I said "I don't care if he's bringing the cash round in a bag full of used fivers, he's not buying it for that". I wonder how she dressed that up politely, I rather hope she didn't bother.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The situation may not be the same everywhere, of course, but in Malaga province it does seem that the number of property sales being achieved is continuing to rise - sales for the first 3 months of this year were just over 11% up compared to the same period last year.


Las 5.587 viviendas vendidas en el primer trimestre confirman el cambio de ciclo del mercado inmobiliario. SUR.es

Sale prices, of course, are a whole different story!


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## SandraP (Apr 23, 2014)

My cheeky offer would tend to around 15% off the asking price, but of course that does depend on the situation of the property i.e. has it just been reduced, how long has it been on the market at that price or are there a lot of others interested. There are a lot of factors to consider before putting in an offer.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

There are houses still being offered for sale in Jimena for ridiculous prices - I would seriously suggest they are at least double if not more than they should be on for. 

What would constitute a cheeky offer on a house for sale at 350,000 when I would guess it should be no more than 150,000?

The last house we lived in was allegedly bought for 350.000 and had 150,000 spent on it (which I can believe, it was wonderful). It recently sold for 225,000 - so does that make it a half million Euro house or a 225,000 house?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

A quick look around the first estate agent's window you pass will show that some sellers are in 2014 and some are stuck in the past - around the 2007 time. 

If your research leaves you feeling the place is worth 150k, then offer 150k. There are plenty of people who are trying to sell today who are regretting not taking that ridiculous cheeky offer they got 2 years ago.

The answer to your last question is 225k. Looking around your property and feeling satisfied that you live in a half a million house is dreaming if you can't sell it for more than half that. 



jimenato said:


> There are houses still being offered for sale in Jimena for ridiculous prices - I would seriously suggest they are at least double if not more than they should be on for.
> 
> What would constitute a cheeky offer on a house for sale at 350,000 when I would guess it should be no more than 150,000?
> 
> The last house we lived in was allegedly bought for 350.000 and had 150,000 spent on it (which I can believe, it was wonderful). It recently sold for 225,000 - so does that make it a half million Euro house or a 225,000 house?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> The last house we lived in was allegedly bought for 350.000 and had 150,000 spent on it (which I can believe, it was wonderful). It recently sold for 225,000 - so does that make it a half million Euro house or a 225,000 house?


In spite of what certain people on here keep saying about this or that is a half million house or a 350k house, a house is only worth what it actually sells for, any other supposed value is only pie in the sky if it is not what somebody will actually pay for it. 

Our house was priced at 87k, we offered 85k which was accepted - the vendor was happy and so were we, she didn't feel cheated and we got a house that we liked at a price we could afford. She was happy that we were buying it and didn't go round bad mouthing us (as has happened with some people who tried to screw the vendor down to the last centimo) so we have had a warm welcome here. 

In the past, there have been estate agents who have ramped up prices being suggested to the vendor, partly to get the business and partly (if they succeed) to get more cash in commission - it also gives them latitude to negotiate a reduction down to nearer what the vendor originally had in mind. Nevertheless the end result has been that the vendor got what she/he wanted, the buyer got the house for much less than the advertised price and the agent got a nice fat commission plus recommends from both parties as being a good agent to deal with. Some of the properties you see advertised are still with that pricing formula.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Look, there is no point arguing it anymore or for pointless sniping but if anyone can't see the value for money offered right now in Spain for property then they are being extremely naive.
Take your 87K or 250K back to the UK and see how far that will go.
That was the basics of my point, any buyer right now knows exactly what they are buying and a seller knows exactly what they are selling. And if you are buying a property without taking into account the past or future then frankly I don't believe you unless you are making it your final home and intend to be carted out in a box. Like I said as far a fiscal value goes it is by no means the most important factor, it's a house to live in. Selling is not high on my list of priorities.

When you buy at or close to rock bottom which is where the market is at you know you are getting excellent value for money.
That's all there is to it. No more, no less, No need to be pedantic.
I'm sure most people would understand this.

Now as for the topic, in general I don't think many people pay the sticker price but it is surely a case by case thing.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

jimenato said:


> There are houses still being offered for sale in Jimena for ridiculous prices - I would seriously suggest they are at least double if not more than they should be on for.
> 
> What would constitute a cheeky offer on a house for sale at 350,000 when I would guess it should be no more than 150,000?
> 
> The last house we lived in was allegedly bought for 350.000 and had 150,000 spent on it (which I can believe, it was wonderful). It recently sold for 225,000 - so does that make it a half million Euro house or a 225,000 house?


I'd be interested to know which houses in Jimena you think are overpriced...cos I've probably viewed most of them! 

I have to agree though, there are a few which are very overpriced....I can think of two or three that we have viewed which are definitely nearly on for twice their value, and a few close by which are so ridiculously priced we've not even gone to see them!

.... Still eager to get there though


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## soldintime (Apr 7, 2014)

I am looking but I am in no rush. I am sure in the area you want you can find 5 houses that meet your criteria. You have an idea which one is expensive and which one is cheaper. I measure some metrics:
* SQM of land
* SQM built - measure this your self as spanish are creative with this
* Condition of the house, how much you need to spent to get it to your desire.

Then make some low, low offers and see who comes back. Remember there is no rush from your side.


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## anonserg (May 13, 2014)

I am currently looking for a property in Barcelona and I must say this thread is helping me so much so thank you all.

Engaged myself with a few agents in the city (but havent make a visit to any property yet as Im still living in Kuala Lumpur now) and I must say the asking price differs a lot from one agent to another. For example, a 4br unit in the same complex offered by agent A at eur800k and u met agent B offering u same size of same complex at 650k (he said it's already reduced more than 100k) so i guess there's no fix way u could determine what price level should you make an offer. but i can say observing a lot and talking to the locals help (oh and reading this forum too!)

Just to share my point of view yes property price in Malaysia is cheaper (but not so cheap, same size unit (but of shoddier quality and workmanship) in central Kuala Lumpur would cost me eur400k-500k anyway) but the infrastructure and quality of life here is not that enticing. I have decided to move to Barcelona (after considering London, Prague, Lisbon and Melbourne) as I really think property price here is worth what you pay for (sometimes I think you get more than you pay for if you compare with the other cities above). Of course this choice is not ideal if I have to find a job here to survive (given the current economic situation) but I am convinced Spain will stand tall again probably in another 5-7 years.

even under the current economic climate, imo Barcelona (perhaps Madrid too) has better infrastructure and vibrant social and cultural scene. and the retail scene (more established than any southeast asia cities) is showing a healthy recovery (i work in the industry) which is very positive.

I am not trying to disagree with anyone here just sharing my observation which I hope would be helpful to anyone like myself trying to decide where to relocate anywhere in the world (if not Spain).

Have a good day all!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

StevejR1 said:


> I'd be interested to know which houses in Jimena you think are overpriced...cos I've probably viewed most of them!
> 
> I have to agree though, there are a few which are very overpriced....I can think of two or three that we have viewed which are definitely nearly on for twice their value, and a few close by which are so ridiculously priced we've not even gone to see them!
> 
> .... Still eager to get there though


Sorry Steve - just seen this. The problem I have is that some of these houses will be owned by mates of mine so I might get in trouble if I comment.

You seem to me to have a good idea of what's going on there. 

If you have a specific query about a specific house pm me and I'll try to help.

There was a comment a couple of posts ago that 'sellers know what they are selling' but I'm not sure that's entirely right (or relevant). 

One of the houses I lived in (I've always rented in Spain) was on the market for 240,000 and the owner (Spanish) tried to persuade me to buy it or help him sell it to a Brit. 

I pointed out that it was worth nowhere near that and he said that a Brit would buy it because a) Brits were rich and b) the exchange rate meant that it would be much cheaper for a Brit than a Spaniard. i.e. he had no idea what he was selling nor any idea of what the market was all about. 

An estate agent managed to persuade him to reduce it to 140,000 - still too high IME - it might be worth 120,000.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Hi Jimenato,

It was only meant in jest really ...I certainly wouldn't expect any insider information, or for you to fall out with any of your friends 

Like you say, I think we've seen enough properties to get a feel for what are priced realistically. So it's really up to us to judge what we feel they are worth, or are prepared to pay....which is sort of what the thread is about really...the 'feel' you get with experience from viewing a few (a lot!) of properties 

It is true what you say about some Spanish owners thinking Brits will pay over the odds....I've seen three properties, one outside Jimena, and two in villages not too far away. The owners were Spanish, and the asking prices so unrealistic it was verging on laughable!

Having said that we've met some very stubborn Brits when it comes to asking prices too!...a couple where even the estate agents have even been a little annoyed with them because they knew it'd never sell for what they wanted, and they were wasting their time with viewings (not near Jimena..)

I think the experience gained in viewings, and taking your time in the thought process, is invaluable....we've been looking for 9 months now, and feel a lot more confident in what we're looking at, it's worth, it's worth to us, and what we actually need, rather than what we thought we wanted 

Moving to Spain, or anywhere, is a big decision....but with a bit of time, patience, and research it's definitely worth it....or at least I hope it will be!! 

Thanks again for the reply Jimenato


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

StevejR1 said:


> Hi Jimenato,
> 
> It was only meant in jest really ...I certainly wouldn't expect any insider information, or for you to fall out with any of your friends
> 
> ...



We sell property for all Nationalities, and I have to say the Spanish in general are highly unrealistic with the price of their properties. Most of our cheaper properties or properties that have been reduced belong to Brits desperate to sell.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

StevejR1 said:


> Hi Jimenato,
> 
> It was only meant in jest really ...I certainly wouldn't expect any insider information, or for you to fall out with any of your friends
> 
> ...


Hi Steve, Yes, good info you have given here, especially since I'm at the beginning of the journey you are about near ending. Good luck to you.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Really interesting thread as we are in Spain at present and should have picked our keys up with a forward contract , things have changed and there are questions on the legality of the property with our lawyer at the town hall Tuesday to checkout the situation, buying in Spain at present is a real roller coaster with realistically priced houses , to some who have not moved in price and others owned by the bank at real cheap rates. Previous posters said the house is worth as much as you willing to pay and that is the bottom line for me , we have found another house available since being here and it ticks all our boxes , we have been researching and looking for 18 months for a permanent home , you have to do your homework and some houses are cheap for good reason ! We dont want an investment , we want a home to enjoy , we will take the risk with the market if and when we resell, but we also want to get the best value we can for our money to have the home that meets our needs. We shall make an offer on this new house we have viewed but we will not mess about , we will offer what we are willing and able to pay and if that is not enough we will walk away , we know what the previous offers have been and they are at least 40 per cent less that being asked for , we will offer 10 per cent less with a guaranteed sale , its not fair to mess about with sellers in my opinion , you have a budget , you like the house , your offer what you willing to pay and thats it ! and in this climate it is still really good value for money , its an interesting journey but at each stage you learn and if you are determined to enjoy your Spanish life you accept that buying the right house here is a challenge but also an amazing opportunity for a good life


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