# Another Strange Electrical Issue



## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Late last night around midnight my ceiling lights flickered and my TV suddenly turned itself off without me touching the remote. After that I noticed that the ceiling lights were a little dimmer than they were before, so I decided to get out my multimeter to check the line voltage at one of my wall receptacles.

Normally I have 220v between line to ground, and zero between neutral to ground. (Actually, there is sometimes 10v between neutral to ground, but that is "normal" over here.) However, this morning I found that I'm now getting 124v between line and ground, and 102v between neutral and ground? Also, when I put my multimeter between line and neutral, then I'm getting 227v instead of the usual 220v. -- Before the incident last night everything was normal as far as my voltage and polarity was concerned. 

I checked the overhead wires between my house and the transformer down the road, but I didn't see anything unusual. Could a short circuit in Meco's transformer or something else, maybe two over head wires touching, cause a situation like this? I don't think that this is a short circuit, because the voltage found on both line and neutral seem to out of phase with one another, or else wouldn't they'd cancel each other out?

My appliances seem to be functioning properly, but our lights are a little bit dimmer than before. Also, is this sort of situation bad for television, computer, and stereo? Any idea what is going on here? I know that Meco has been doing some work in our area, but this doesn't make sense?

One other thing, I checked at two other houses in our compound, and they also seem to have 124v on the line side and 102v on the neutral side. So it isn't just me?


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Maxx these power plants (not sure about your area) are up for rework and many so when they fail or go down a back up generator plant is used and they have several but maybe it takes them a while to work out the bugs, I'm not an electrician but this has happened to us several times.

Real damaging to TV's, Wifi units, computers, I've learned the hard way on this so now all my delicate type electronics have some sort of voltage regulator protection, what's happening in my area are power surges even worse I feel than a drop in power.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

I think that I'll ask my wife to help me make some phone calls tomorrow.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx this is the way that electrical power is distributed in many parts of the Philippines, i.e. 110 on both neutral and line, so effectively 220 v across Line to Neutral. Basically it is a centre tapped transformer on the pole supplying the power to your house in that way. In fact that is the way that the power is supplied to my house that I built in Davao. What I cannot understand is why the situation would have changed from your previous condition, unless Meco are carrying out work, upgrades on the distribution. It shouldn't make any difference to your equipment as long as the voltage is stable, but just make sure that you do have a good earthing connection, or grounding as the Americans call it.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

hogrider said:


> Maxx this is the way that electrical power is distributed in many parts of the Philippines, i.e. 110 on both neutral and line, so effectively 220 v across Line to Neutral. Basically it is a centre tapped transformer on the pole supplying the power to your house in that way. In fact that is the way that the power is supplied to my house that I built in Davao. What I cannot understand is why the situation would have changed from your previous condition, unless Meco are carrying out work, upgrades on the distribution. It shouldn't make any difference to your equipment as long as the voltage is stable, but just make sure that you do have a good earthing connection, or grounding as the Americans call it.


Our power was down all day on Saturday, and there was something in the local news about them upgrading a transformer somewhere, but I didn't get the entire gist of it because it was in dialect. Well, it just really surprised me because when the power came back on Saturday afternoon it was still configured with 220v on the Line side only, but then after the power fluctuation Sunday night it suddenly changed to the unusual (unusual to me) configuration that it is now. 

Oh yeah, I went through the trouble of installing a grounding rod a few years ago, and now about half of my house has type B three prong receptacles which are connected to the grounding rod. Also, the voltage seems to be stable, but just to be on the safe side I'm using an AVR for my TV and one for my computer.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> Our power was down all day on Saturday, and there was something in the local news about them upgrading a transformer somewhere, but I didn't get the entire gist of it because it was in dialect. Well, it just really surprised me because when the power came back on Saturday afternoon it was still configured with 220v on the Line side only, but then after the power fluctuation Sunday night it suddenly changed to the unusual (unusual to me) configuration that it is now.
> 
> Oh yeah, I went through the trouble of installing a grounding rod a few years ago, and now about half of my house has type B three prong receptacles which are connected to the grounding rod. Also, the voltage seems to be stable, but just to be on the safe side I'm using an AVR for my TV and one for my computer.


Yes an AVR for the sensitive electronic devices is always a good idea.
Keep us updated if the situation remains stable or changes back.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

hogrider said:


> Yes an AVR for the sensitive electronic devices is always a good idea.
> Keep us updated if the situation remains stable or changes back.


My wife called Meco today, but all we could get out of them is that they are upgrading their system, and the person on the phone couldn't tell me if the changes to my household polarity was due to their work or not. Hmm....?


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Business staffing*



Maxx62 said:


> My wife called Meco today, but all we could get out of them is that they are upgrading their system, and the person on the phone couldn't tell me if the changes to my household polarity was due to their work or not. Hmm....?


Problem here I feel is that the business here don't want and will not hire staff to handle phone calls because of costs but I have had some luck using official Facebook pages at times. I found the MECO Official Facebook page, I will send messages from there. https://www.facebook.com/mecomactan/


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

M.C.A. said:


> Problem here I feel is that the business here don't want and will not hire staff to handle phone calls because of costs but I have had some luck using official Facebook pages at times. I found the MECO Official Facebook page, I will send messages from there. https://www.facebook.com/mecomactan/


Let me know if they tell you anything different from what they told me over the phone. I was going to post a message there, but I don't feel like listing my address and billing info on their Facebook page. Oh I see what you mean. I will try to send them a message.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Maxx62 said:


> Let me know if they tell you anything different from what they told me over the phone. I was going to post a message there, but I don't feel like listing my address and billing info on their Facebook page. Oh I see what you mean. I will try to send them a message.


Sent them a message via Facebook, but so far no response. In other news a toko (not a tiki) died inside my air-condition and stunk up our bedroom so bad that we couldn't sleep in their for two nights. When I took the air conditioner down and opened it up I found the maggot covered body of the toko inside. The stench was pretty bad, but what gets me is how in the heck did a full grown toko get inside the body of my air-conditioner? The only thing I can think of is that he crawled inside one of the slits on the side when he was a baby, and spent the past year or so living inside the body of my air-conditioner eating bugs? Weird huh?


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Lizards*



Maxx62 said:


> Sent them a message via Facebook, but so far no response. In other news a toko (not a tiki) died inside my air-condition and stunk up our bedroom so bad that we couldn't sleep in their for two nights. When I took the air conditioner down and opened it up I found the maggot covered body of the toko inside. The stench was pretty bad, but what gets me is how in the heck did a full grown toko get inside the body of my air-conditioner? The only thing I can think of is that he crawled inside one of the slits on the side when he was a baby, and spent the past year or so living inside the body of my air-conditioner eating bugs? Weird huh?


I had to look that up and I haven't seen one of these in our area, we have the smaller brown gecko's.


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## pronse (Apr 3, 2009)

Maxx62 said:


> Sent them a message via Facebook, but so far no response. In other news a toko (not a tiki) died inside my air-condition and stunk up our bedroom so bad that we couldn't sleep in their for two nights. When I took the air conditioner down and opened it up I found the maggot covered body of the toko inside. The stench was pretty bad, but what gets me is how in the heck did a full grown toko get inside the body of my air-conditioner? The only thing I can think of is that he crawled inside one of the slits on the side when he was a baby, and spent the past year or so living inside the body of my air-conditioner eating bugs? Weird huh?


I have a UPS from APC where I connect my TV, wireless and NAS. The soft stuff that's ok to operate on battery when there is a brown out (Black out). Mind you, it clicks 100 times aday where there is no brownout 

Why wait to discover the idiocy?


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

pronse said:


> I have a UPS from APC where I connect my TV, wireless and NAS. The soft stuff that's ok to operate on battery when there is a brown out (Black out). Mind you, it clicks 100 times aday where there is no brownout
> 
> Why wait to discover the idiocy?


Got both a UPS and an AVR for both my TV and home computer. I became suspicious after the green light on one of my UPS began blinking after the power fluctuation.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> Got both a UPS and an AVR for both my TV and home computer. I became suspicious after the green light on one of my UPS began blinking after the power fluctuation.


You shouldn't really need both Max. If you have a UPS it will also regulate the voltage as well as give you standby power via the units internal batteries and inverter circuitry.
The AVR will regulate the voltage but will not provide back up power.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

hogrider said:


> You shouldn't really need both Max. If you have a UPS it will also regulate the voltage as well as give you standby power via the units internal batteries and inverter circuitry.
> The AVR will regulate the voltage but will not provide back up power.


When I first arrived here back in 2013 the power failures were pretty frequent, so one of the first things I did was run out and buy two UPS units. I admit that I may have some overkill going on here, but at first I was under the impression that a UPS could protect my equipment from occasional voltage spikes, similar to a surge protector, but that I would still need an automatic voltage regulator if the line voltage maintained a steady voltage that was significantly above or below 220v?

At any rate, all of the houses here in our compound seem to be experiencing exactly the same condition, so I guess I'm not going to worry about it too much.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> When I first arrived here back in 2013 the power failures were pretty frequent, so one of the first things I did was run out and buy two UPS units. I admit that I may have some overkill going on here, but at first I was under the impression that a UPS could protect my equipment from occasional voltage spikes, similar to a surge protector, but that I would still need an automatic voltage regulator if the line voltage maintained a steady voltage that was significantly above or below 220v?
> 
> At any rate, all of the houses here in our compound seem to be experiencing exactly the same condition, so I guess I'm not going to worry about it too much.


The AVR, Automatic Voltage Regulator, will do just that, regulate the output voltage against variations of the voltage on the input. It does not provide any battery back up. Your UPS, Uninterruptible Power Supply, will also regulate the voltage and also frequency to provide a stable voltage at the output even during a blackout. In addition it contains batteries which via an inverter will provide you with a stable output voltage. The autonomy, or duration that the unit will provide output in the event of a blackout, depends upon your load and the size of the batteries. Depending of the actual type of UPS, there will be some degree of protection against surges and spikes, this may not be as good on the cheaper models.


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## pronse (Apr 3, 2009)

The UPS would protect against voltage swings plus provide limited battery AC backups. So, connect it to sensitive small appliances.
I got mine coz I wanted my router to keep running when there was a brownout. I got it from Lazada.com.

Ever wonder why filipinos disconnect everything from the wall when they leave home?


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

I've disabled the little buzzer inside my UPS and I have found that it can power a small electric light bulb during a blackout for about one or so. Hmm...I thought that a UPS was like surge protector combined with a back up battery, but that it wouldn't really be able to compensate for longer duration voltage drop offs and periods of over voltage? I didn't think that it really had the ability to function a full voltage regulator? Sorry to ask so many redundant questions, I know that I can be incredibly dense on the subject of electricity sometimes.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Bit of an assumption but it is the inverter that supplies you computer all of the time so the output should be conditioned. The mains input just charges the battery and supplies the inverter at the battery charge voltage. So as long as the input can maintain the battery charge all is well in the world. I don't know how far the input would need to drop before the battery charge level can no longer be maintained, at which point the battery must take over.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> I've disabled the little buzzer inside my UPS and I have found that it can power a small electric light bulb during a blackout for about one or so. Hmm...I thought that a UPS was like surge protector combined with a back up battery, but that it wouldn't really be able to compensate for longer duration voltage drop offs and periods of over voltage? I didn't think that it really had the ability to function a full voltage regulator? Sorry to ask so many redundant questions, I know that I can be incredibly dense on the subject of electricity sometimes.


If it can only run a small lamp for an hour it is a small capacity unit. If you can read the model details on the UPS or post a photo of it maybe able to give you a bit more info about it.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

hogrider said:


> If it can only run a small lamp for an hour it is a small capacity unit. If you can read the model details on the UPS or post a photo of it maybe able to give you a bit more info about it.


At work we use 600 watt and 1000 watt. The output power is not the problem it lis the size of the battery that is the limiting factor. If you could connect up a couple of car batteries, or better still leisure batteries you could run your base load for many hours.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Gary D said:


> At work we use 600 watt and 1000 watt. The output power is not the problem it lis the size of the battery that is the limiting factor. If you could connect up a couple of car batteries, or better still leisure batteries you could run your base load for many hours.


Don't think so Gary, the charging capacity of Maxx's small UPS would not be able to charge a car battery. The charging circuitry capacity is related to the capacity and autonomy of the UPS.
600VA and 1000VA is a reasonable size unit, should run your laptop for several hours.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

hogrider said:


> If it can only run a small lamp for an hour it is a small capacity unit. If you can read the model details on the UPS or post a photo of it maybe able to give you a bit more info about it.


My UPC is manufactured by APC, and the model number is ES-500. I guess that means it has a maximum capacity of 500 watts? My niece has my digital camera right now, but I've included two links pointing to the APC website regarding my particular unit.

http://www.apc.com/salestools/aste-6z5kq5/aste-6z5kq5_r3_en.pdf

Back-UPS ES 500VA Philippines - APC - Philippines

I've had this particular unit for about three and a half years now, and I've noticed that the price on them has come down a bit at Octagon Computer at SM Cebu? Should I consider upgrading to a larger capacity UPC sometime in the near future? Right now I'm using this thing with PC and monitor, and that's it.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Gary D said:


> At work we use 600 watt and 1000 watt. The output power is not the problem it lis the size of the battery that is the limiting factor. If you could connect up a couple of car batteries, or better still leisure batteries you could run your base load for many hours.


I've seen videos on You Tube of people removing the standard battery from their UPC and then wiring in a huge external deep cycle battery in its place. Wouldn't the UPC have to work too hard to try and keep such a large marine battery fully charged?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Maxx62 said:


> I've seen videos on You Tube of people removing the standard battery from their UPC and then wiring in a huge external deep cycle battery in its place. Wouldn't the UPC have to work too hard to try and keep such a large marine battery fully charged?


The charge current would be what it is, should be automatically limited to a safe level, it just take longer to recharge. If you power only fails occasionally I don't see a problem. APC is a well known make , we have many at work. My only concern about buying one in the Philippines is that there's a good chance that it is a Chinese knockoff.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> My UPC is manufactured by APC, and the model number is ES-500. I guess that means it has a maximum capacity of 500 watts? My niece has my digital camera right now, but I've included two links pointing to the APC website regarding my particular unit.
> 
> http://www.apc.com/salestools/aste-6z5kq5/aste-6z5kq5_r3_en.pdf
> 
> ...


You're correct Maxx, your unit has 500VA, 300Watts capacity. I looked up your UPS on APC website and it only has a small battery capacity, which means that you have a limited run-time on battery as follows: -
At full load 300 Watts - only 1 minute
At half load 150 Watts - about 11 minutes
Without knowing exactly what your load is I cannot tell exactly how long your run time will be. If you are running a desktop PC plus monitor I'm estimating your run time on battery will be pretty low, maybe 5 minutes only. That's assuming a new unit with new batteries. The batteries deteriorate with age as you can imagine. If you're using your pc when the power goes out, you need to back up any unsaved data pretty quickly.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

If a blackout occurs I usually shut down my computer within a few minutes, so I've never encountered the situation where my PC has drained the battery in my UPS completely dry. 

Maybe my UPS is a Chinese knockoff? I opened up the case this afternoon and found that the battery inside is manufactured by Kung Lung Batteries? Also the model number for the battery is WP7.2-12, and the label also states 12v 7.2Ah. 

Just wondering if anyone else has a Kung Lung brand battery inside their APC brand UPS?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Maxx62 said:


> If a blackout occurs I usually shut down my computer within a few minutes, so I've never encountered the situation where my PC has drained the battery in my UPS completely dry.
> 
> Maybe my UPS is a Chinese knockoff? I opened up the case this afternoon and found that the battery inside is manufactured by Kung Lung Batteries? Also the model number for the battery is WP7.2-12, and the label also states 12v 7.2Ah.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has a Kung Lung brand battery inside their APC brand UPS?


I've got 5 on the desk behind me which I had been changing the batteries. The old batteries are none that I recognize the name of. Bit of a variety.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> If a blackout occurs I usually shut down my computer within a few minutes, so I've never encountered the situation where my PC has drained the battery in my UPS completely dry.
> 
> Maybe my UPS is a Chinese knockoff? I opened up the case this afternoon and found that the battery inside is manufactured by Kung Lung Batteries? Also the model number for the battery is WP7.2-12, and the label also states 12v 7.2Ah.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has a Kung Lung brand battery inside their APC brand UPS?


Not necessarily a Chinese knock off, lots of equipment these days is fitted with Korean made batteries. Just to be clear Maxx, is there a problem with the UPS? Why are you suspecting the batteries?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

One thing to consider is that the battery capacity is temperature dependant. The higher the temperature the lower the charge voltage and the small the capacity.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

hogrider said:


> Not necessarily a Chinese knock off, lots of equipment these days is fitted with Korean made batteries. Just to be clear Maxx, is there a problem with the UPS? Why are you suspecting the batteries?


Oh no, I don't really suspect any problems with my UPS, I was just curious about the capacity of the battery inside after that last exchange, so I wanted to open it up and see if the battery had any information on it that might indicate how long it could power my PC if need be. 

Whenever a power failure occurs I usually try to shut it down as quickly as I can, and I look at the UPS as simply a means of keeping the read write heads inside my hard drive from crashing into the spinning platters during a power failure. 

The funny thing is that when I purchased this thing there were big letters on the side of the cardboard box stating up to four hours of battery life! Of course that turned out to be a big crock, because this thing can't even power a 5 watt LED for a full hour. 

I quess I was just curious if a 1,000 Va UPS would give me approximately twice as much battery time as what I have now?


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Gary D said:


> One thing to consider is that the battery capacity is temperature dependant. The higher the temperature the lower the charge voltage and the small the capacity.


Hmm...I wonder if some improved air circulation might improve the battery life a bit? Right now it is sitting on the floor underneath a desk. Maybe if I raised it off the floor a bit so that air could circulate underneath it and around it? I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Maxx62 said:


> Oh no, I don't really suspect any problems with my UPS, I was just curious about the capacity of the battery inside after that last exchange, so I wanted to open it up and see if the battery had any information on it that might indicate how long it could power my PC if need be.
> 
> Whenever a power failure occurs I usually try to shut it down as quickly as I can, and I look at the UPS as simply a means of keeping the read write heads inside my hard drive from crashing into the spinning platters during a power failure.
> 
> ...


It is roughly proportional Maxx in terms of the size of your electrical load and the autonomy (battery run time). Roughly speaking if you halve the load, the batteries will run for twice as long. As Gary said earlier, you can try hooking up a larger battery, but generally the capacity of the charger in any UPS is rated to the size of the batteries. In professional UPS systems, it is quite common to have separate battery cabinets. Your existing unit needs 10 hrs to fully charge the internal battery. You can imagine how long it would take to try to charge a car battery with approx 10 times the capacity (VA). If you need longer autonomy, maybe 30 min or more, you do really need to consider a larger UPS. 1000VA will be better but only approx twice what you have now.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Maxx62 said:


> Hmm...I wonder if some improved air circulation might improve the battery life a bit? Right now it is sitting on the floor underneath a desk. Maybe if I raised it off the floor a bit so that air could circulate underneath it and around it? I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.


When I lived in the states I used a UPS unit under my desk. I used 1 inch square wood pieces about 6 inches long under it just to allow a bit more air around & under the unit.

Fred


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

In a previous life I managed the test department for a complany that manufature battery backup systems for telepone exchanges, roadside emergency phone systems etc. They were 55V (48V) systems that could supply several hundred amps for a couple of hours. All the chargers had a temperature sensor that adjusted the charge voltage according to the ambient temperature. You can immagine these systems could fill a small room.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Gary D said:


> In a previous life I managed the test department for a complany that manufature battery backup systems for telepone exchanges, roadside emergency phone systems etc. They were 55V (48V) systems that could supply several hundred amps for a couple of hours. All the chargers had a temperature sensor that adjusted the charge voltage according to the ambient temperature. You can immagine these systems could fill a small room.


Hi Gary
I believe all the old Post Office telephone exchanges ran on 48v dc, so yeah pretty high currents.
I look after the TV Studios and IT Systems for Dubai Govt Media Dept. Our UPS Systems, the largest of which is 120kVA, do fill small rooms. Those IT servers do need a lot of power and generate a heck of a lot of heat in the bargain. The real issue with ambient temperature is the battery life. It drops off exponentially above 25C.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

fmartin_gila said:


> When I lived in the states I used a UPS unit under my desk. I used 1 inch square wood pieces about 6 inches long under it just to allow a bit more air around & under the unit.
> 
> Fred


Don't laugh, but I'm thinking about adding some legs underneath mine, and then maybe using a hole pattern I found in on an old speaker grill to use as a template to drill tiny holes into the plastic case. Of course I'll disassemble it before drilling holes, and I'm thinking to use a rotary hand operated drill (no power drill) to make the holes. - Or maybe I just have too much free time on my hands.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

hogrider said:


> Hi Gary
> I believe all the old Post Office telephone exchanges ran on 48v dc, so yeah pretty high currents.
> I look after the TV Studios and IT Systems for Dubai Govt Media Dept. Our UPS Systems, the largest of which is 120kVA, do fill small rooms. Those IT servers do need a lot of power and generate a heck of a lot of heat in the bargain. The real issue with ambient temperature is the battery life. It drops off exponentially above 25C.


That's why they take the bulbs out of their cars and motorcycles in the Philippines, they think it make the battery last longer.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Maxx62 said:


> Don't laugh, but I'm thinking about adding some legs underneath mine, and then maybe using a hole pattern I found in on an old speaker grill to use as a template to drill tiny holes into the plastic case. Of course I'll disassemble it before drilling holes, and I'm thinking to use a rotary hand operated drill (no power drill) to make the holes. - Or maybe I just have too much free time on my hands.


Might be something to try. I don't really know if it prolonged the batteries or not. I had the setup about ten years before I dismantled it entirely when I retired and no longer needed the full setup. Don't really know how much time I could run on the UPC cause as soon as the power would go out, I would immediately start the shutdown process as I could not take a chance on loosing any data as I was using the setup to trade Commodities at the time.

Fred


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

fmartin_gila said:


> Might be something to try. I don't really know if it prolonged the batteries or not. I had the setup about ten years before I dismantled it entirely when I retired and no longer needed the full setup. Don't really know how much time I could run on the UPC cause as soon as the power would go out, I would immediately start the shutdown process as I could not take a chance on loosing any data as I was using the setup to trade Commodities at the time.
> 
> Fred


I'm the same way, as soon as the power goes out I immediately start closing whatever is open on my desktop and then I shut down as quick as possible. No need to read the news or chat on emergency battery time.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Gary D said:


> That's why they take the bulbs out of their cars and motorcycles in the Philippines, they think it make the battery last longer.


LOL! So that explains why most of the cars in my area don't have headlights or brake lights? I wonder if I can convince my brother in law that driving in reverse will cause the amount of gas in his tank to increase?


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Maxx62 said:


> LOL! So that explains why most of the cars in my area don't have headlights or brake lights? I wonder if I can convince my brother in law that driving in reverse will cause the amount of gas in his tank to increase?


That would go along with some of the other logical thinking I have seen here. LOL

Fred


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

fmartin_gila said:


> That would go along with some of the other logical thinking I have seen here. LOL
> 
> Fred





Maxx62 said:


> LOL! So that explains why most of the cars in my area don't have headlights or brake lights? I wonder if I can convince my brother in law that driving in reverse will cause the amount of gas in his tank to increase?


Many locals also believe that using head and tail lights causes a vehicle to use more gas or diesel - so they simply leave them off.
Some things in life in some places can't be taught, learned, or fixed and so we must all live on the dangerous side of life at times...


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> Many locals also believe that using head and tail lights causes a vehicle to use more gas or diesel - so they simply leave them off.
> Some things in life in some places can't be taught, learned, or fixed and so we must all live on the dangerous side of life at times...


Hmm...I bet that if I removed my car's brake shoes, then my wheels would have less rolling resistance and then I would get better gas mileage. The sad thing is that there probably is someone in my near by area who has done exactly that.


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## pronse (Apr 3, 2009)

There is no word that translates to "logic"in all of South Eatren Asia ... coz they don't use it


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

pronse said:


> There is no word that translates to "logic"in all of South Eatren Asia ... coz they don't use it


Yes there is. In the Philippines it's called "Philogic."
It can be found on the internet but if I list the site, I'd have to ban myself...


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