# Expatriate-Friendly Cities?



## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I am about to start my third year teaching at a university high school (prepa) in Culiacan. It's a decent job (with some of the usual headaches, of course) and well-paid for Mexico. I teach academic subjects (history, philosophy, economics) in English. I have also taught ESL internationally (in Korea). I have almost 20 years teaching experience (high school, college, adult), a B.A. from a top-notch school, and a double master's (English and education) from another fine university. So overall, I'm pretty employable and can command a good wage; I'm luckier than many in that respect.

I think about making a geographic change within Mexico at some point not because I believe Culiacan is *so* dangerous (despite its bad reputation), but because I find it kind of dreary to be an English-speaking expatriate here. My speaking-and-listening Spanish is probably never going to be up to the level of the sorts of conversations that I like to have, nor do I find that most Culichi adults are terribly interested in having those conversations with non-Mexicans anyway. The number of native English speakers at my university is down to three, including me. And as a 54-year-old guy, I am by far the oldest native English speaker I know of in the entire city. There is no tourism here, no retirement culture, no international business, and therefore no establishments that cater even marginally to English speakers. I'm pretty alone (although I've got two great cats to keep me company, thank heaven!).

So I'm interested in pondering where, if opportunity presented itself or could be found, I might find things a little livelier. It doesn't have to be anything extreme. I'm more of a homebody than not. But a few more reasons to leave the apartment would not be amiss. An establishment or two where some English speakers congregate - local expatriate workers, retirees and snowbirds, tourists and business people passing through - like a hotel bar, perhaps. An English-language bookstore would be heaven, although I'll bet there are very few of those outside the D.F. 

My overall experience of Mexico is not deep. I've spent a little time in Mazatlan and a few weeks altogether in Puerto Vallarta - either one of those cities would quite fit what I have in mind, although decent teaching jobs are not growing on trees in either one.

But where else? This is why I appeal to those of you with a broader experience.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I am about to start my third year teaching at a university high school (prepa) in Culiacan. It's a decent job (with some of the usual headaches, of course) and well-paid for Mexico. I teach academic subjects (history, philosophy, economics) in English. I have also taught ESL internationally (in Korea). I have almost 20 years teaching experience (high school, college, adult), a B.A. from a top-notch school, and a double master's (English and education) from another fine university. So overall, I'm pretty employable and can command a good wage; I'm luckier than many in that respect.
> 
> I think about making a geographic change within Mexico at some point not because I believe Culiacan is *so* dangerous (despite its bad reputation), but because I find it kind of dreary to be an English-speaking expatriate here. My speaking-and-listening Spanish is probably never going to be up to the level of the sorts of conversations that I like to have, nor do I find that most Culichi adults are terribly interested in having those conversations with non-Mexicans anyway. The number of native English speakers at my university is down to three, including me. And as a 54-year-old guy, I am by far the oldest native English speaker I know of in the entire city. There is no tourism here, no retirement culture, no international business, and therefore no establishments that cater even marginally to English speakers. I'm pretty alone (although I've got two great cats to keep me company, thank heaven!).
> 
> ...


I am sure others will chime in with their favorite spots. For my part, consider Guadalajara. There is a small English speaking ex-patriate group here (compared to the much larger group to the south near Lake Chapala). There is an English language book store. There are lots of small video salons, one showing mostly old classic US movies. All the video salons show a lot of independent movies. There are simulcasts of opera broadcasts of the NY Met. And then there are tons of clubs and bars if that is your thing.

You don't mention outdoor activities, but there is a large undeveloped area to the west, Bosque La Primavera, and a mini-Grand Canyon to the east, Barranca de Huentitlan/Oblatos, both of which offer convenient bus-accessible hiking and camping oportunities closer to the metropolitan area than any other major city of the world as far as I know.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I am sure others will chime in with their favorite spots. For my part, consider Guadalajara. There is a small English speaking ex-patriate group here (compared to the much larger group to the south near Lake Chapala). There is an English language book store. There are lots of small video salons, one showing mostly old classic US movies. All the video salons show a lot of independent movies. There are simulcasts of opera broadcasts of the NY Met. And then there are tons of clubs and bars if that is your thing.
> 
> You don't mention outdoor activities, but there is a large undeveloped area to the west, Bosque La Primavera, and a mini-Grand Canyon to the east, Barranca de Huentitlan/Oblatos, both of which offer convenient bus-accessible hiking and camping oportunities closer to the metropolitan area than any other major city of the world as far as I know.


People have certainly mentioned Guadalajara in conversation with me. Everyone seems to find the city charming. So that is one possibility that will be on my radar. Thanks very much for the details!


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## PanamaJack (Apr 1, 2013)

Why not D.F. It has been home for over 30 years for me. Actually I have been here over 40 but spent undergraduate studies in Boston and lived in in other places in both Mexico and Latin America but 33 of th 40 in D.F.

The city is loaded with bookstores, cultural activities, museums, bars, nightclubs, sporting venues, and much much more. There are scores and scores of big colegios in D.F. and I am sure at least some of them are looking for talented teaching professionals like yourself. 

I have spent months in places like Boston (actually four years), New York City, Buenos Aires, Santiago de Chile, Brasilia, and other places, and for me Mexico City has many more positives than any of those others with the exception of Boston, but Boston has snow!!! Don't like snow! 
I suggest D.F. and if you choose to move here let me know and I would be happy to suggest an area depending upon where you work.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PanamaJack said:


> Why not D.F. It has been home for over 30 years for me. Actually I have been here over 40 but spent undergraduate studies in Boston and lived in in other places in both Mexico and Latin America but 33 of th 40 in D.F.
> 
> The city is loaded with bookstores, cultural activities, museums, bars, nightclubs, sporting venues, and much much more. There are scores and scores of big colegios in D.F. and I am sure at least some of them are looking for talented teaching professionals like yourself.
> 
> ...


I don't know DF well but the half a dozen times or so that I have been there, I really enjoyed it and at one point almost moved there. One question I have is: How walkable is it? One of the features I like about Gdl is that its small size, relatively, makes it possible to live in Centro within walking distance to independent films, Met (opera not baseball) broadcasts, mercados, the Consulate, Migración, IMSS, museums, the Catedral and within a 40 minute bus ride for my weekly hike in the country. I don't know if this is possible anywhere else, and of course, it is entirely dependent on one's priorities.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I don't know DF well but the half a dozen times or so that I have been there, I really enjoyed it and at one point almost moved there. One question I have is: How walkable is it? One of the features I like about Gdl is that its small size, relatively, makes it possible to live in Centro within walking distance to independent films, Met (opera not baseball) broadcasts, mercados, the Consulate, Migración, IMSS, museums, the Catedral and within a 40 minute bus ride for my weekly hike in the country. I don't know if this is possible anywhere else, and of course, it is entirely dependent on one's priorities.


Mexico City is very walkable, at least from my point of view. I live in a pleasant centrally-located middle-class neighborhood, and, for almost all of my daily routine, I can walk to wherever I need to go: Superama, the local market, the Sunday tianguis, the laundromat, the beauty shop, movie theaters, and small restaurants and cafés (I eat out a lot). If I want to go to Chapultepec Park where many of the finest of the city's museums are located, it's a ten-minute bus ride. If I want to go downtown (more museums than you can shake a stick at, shopping, restaurants, historic areas to explore, more movie theaters, concerts at Bellas Artes, etc., etc.), it's a fifteen-minute bus ride.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Mexico City is very walkable, at least from my point of view. I live in a pleasant centrally-located middle-class neighborhood, and, for almost all of my daily routine, I can walk to wherever I need to go: Superama, the local market, the Sunday tianguis, the laundromat, the beauty shop, movie theaters, and small restaurants and cafés (I eat out a lot). If I want to go to Chapultepec Park where many of the finest of the city's museums are located, it's a ten-minute bus ride. If I want to go downtown (more museums than you can shake a stick at, shopping, restaurants, historic areas to explore, more movie theaters, concerts at Bellas Artes, etc., etc.), it's a fifteen-minute bus ride.


Definitely more museums in DF than Gdl. In fact more of everything by a factor of 5.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

PanamaJack said:


> Why not D.F. It has been home for over 30 years for me. Actually I have been here over 40 but spent undergraduate studies in Boston and lived in in other places in both Mexico and Latin America but 33 of th 40 in D.F.
> 
> The city is loaded with bookstores, cultural activities, museums, bars, nightclubs, sporting venues, and much much more. There are scores and scores of big colegios in D.F. and I am sure at least some of them are looking for talented teaching professionals like yourself.
> 
> ...


I am willing to consider the D.F., although the very biggest cities - and it is one of the biggest - tend to leave me feeling a little overwhelmed. I grew up in the greater New York area, so you would think I'd feel differently, but no. 

In Korea, I lived in Changwon, a medium-sized regional capital (about 1 million population), rather than Seoul. I like that size of city, but there are always trade-offs. The greatest number of expatriate amenities are of course going to be found in the largest places. Changwon, a city similar in size to Culiacan, was no Seoul, but it was far from entirely barren for expats. Culiacan pretty much is.

So who knows, I might find Mexico City stimulating.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I am willing to consider the D.F., although the very biggest cities - and it is one of the biggest - tend to leave me feeling a little overwhelmed. I grew up in the greater New York area, so you would think I'd feel differently, but no.
> 
> In Korea, I lived in Changwon, a medium-sized regional capital (about 1 million population), rather than Seoul. I like that size of city, but there are always trade-offs. The greatest number of expatriate amenities are of course going to be found in the largest places. Changwon, a city similar in size to Culiacan, was no Seoul, but it was far from entirely barren for expats. Culiacan pretty much is.
> 
> So who knows, I might find Mexico City stimulating.


Stimulating it is! To make life manageable here you need to organize your life so you don't have a huge commute to get from home to work everyday. Of course, since I'm semi-retired and only accept students who will come to my place for class, commuting isn't a problem for me.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

To elaborate a little on one aspect of what others have said above, Mexico City is a patchwork of dozens or hundreds of towns and neighbourhoods smushed together. If you arrange yourself so that you don’t have to commute far to your job, you can live most of the time as though you were in a smallish to medium-sized city — and a walkable one, too; yet when you need them, the amenities and culture of a bigger city are there for the experiencing.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would look at Mexico city like any other very large city in the world. people tend to stay in the area where they live and or worl and or havefriends and only go to the other areas for special ocasions or according to needs. 
I think Df would be a whole lot more exciting and interesting than Guadalajara. There is so much to do and see in DF. If I live alone I believe that is where I would live.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Ensenada, and nearby
Mazatlan
Puerto Vallarta
Guadalajara
Lake Chapala
Zihuatanejo
Puerto Escondido
Mexico City
Cuernavaca
Queretaro
Guanajuato
San Miguel de Allende
Oaxaca
Merida
Playa del Carmen


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## OnTheRoadToMexico (Jun 12, 2013)

Not that I've been there, but San Miguel de Allende (included in Longford's list above) has a very large and loyal-to-SMA ex-pat population, including several books written about relocating to it alone.

So if DF and even Guadalajara feel too overwhelming, you might put that on your radar.


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## Steven John (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm here in Progreso, Yucatan 20 miles North of Merida which is the capital of the Yucatan considered to be the safest state and Merida is protected by the Merida Initiative agreement between the USA and Mexico.

I moved here from Texas and have not looked back. Biggest reason for me moving here was that I could retire much earlier and have access to affordable health care and by affordable I mean going to the doctor to get a shot for less than $2 US dollars. In Texas if you didn't have health insurance it would cost you at least $250 plus. Dental work is so good and cheap that my Canadian friends have all their work done here when they come down in the winter months. Merida has it's own dental and medical school., 

I met someone in Merida who had hip replacement done for less than $10,000 US dollars. Compare that with $125,000 US dollars if you had it done in Texas.

Merida has a huge expat community and even has it's own Merida English Language Library plus over 10 schools that teach English.

It's a million people with high end shopping malls. Up here in Progreso, a cruise ship destination twice a week, we have about 60,000 people. Then in the fall/winter all the Canadian snow birds come here to live.

Merida is consistently listed in the top ten cities in the world for baby boomers to retire in according to Forbes and Kiplinger magazine. 

A lot of expats live right in the "centro" area which is downtown and love the old turn of the century colonial homes or in the Santa Anna section of the city which I really like. 

I'm four hours from Cancun or Playa Del Carmen by ADO bus which cost only $380 pesos one way which is cheap. I don't have a car but prefer to take the bus everywhere. Let someone else drive

It's a 90 minute plane ride from Houston to Merida on United by the way. I'm here on a tourist passport six month visitation then have to leave for three days then I can come back in. It works great. I'm here for six month then fly to Houston do some shopping etc then fly back to Merida.

Some travel by bus from Merida to Belize to avoid having to fly out of the country but I haven't done that yet. I still like to go back to Texas to see family and friends.


Hope this helps the cause...

Steve


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I would add San Cristóbal de Las Casas as an expat friendly city even though most expats there are European or Central American and are fluent in or have some command of Spanish since there are few English speakers down there. Interestingly, since we live both in Chiapas and at Lake Chapala where English is widely spoken, I find that my terrible Spanish improves when I am in Chiapas since I must make a concerted effort to speak at least elementary Spanish in order to get by. At the area at Lake Chapala known locally as "Lakeside", where the large expat colony normally resides, locals have little tolerance for attempts by foreign residents to practice their Spanish language skills and often insist on proceeding in English if they speak it since most foreigners are from the U.S. or English speaking Canada and many speak little or no Spanish.

San Cristóbal also has a colony of what we used to call "hippies" or, before that, "beatniks". Remember Maynard Krebs from the Dobie Gillis TV series? People right out of the 1960s who rarely qualify for residency visas who historically headed to Guatemala to renew their tourist visas but that may be a bit more difficult now under the new INM rules.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Steven John said:


> I'm here in Progreso, Yucatan 20 miles North of Merida which is the capital of the Yucatan considered to be the safest state and Merida is protected by the Merida Initiative agreement between the USA and Mexico.


I think you're misunderstanding what the "Merida Initiative" is. Specifically, it has relatively little to do with security for Merida.

Mérida Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Steven John said:


> I moved here from Texas and have not looked back. Biggest reason for me moving here was that I could retire much earlier and have access to affordable health care and by affordable I mean going to the doctor to get a shot for less than $2 US dollars. In Texas if you didn't have health insurance it would cost you at least $250 plus.


I think Texas, generally, has a bad reputation in the USA as a place where people are routinely abused regarding a wide range of things. Good for you for escaping that enviornment.



Steven John said:


> It's a million people ...


A big city, yes. probably less than 800,000 residents in the city, and in the wider geographical area, the spralling municipio ... about 950,000/975,000 residents. 



Steven John said:


> Merida is consistently listed in the top ten cities in the world for baby boomers to retire in according to Forbes and Kiplinger magazine.


I doubt many people place Merida on a top 10 list for retirement cities in the World. The only people who'd probably include the city on such a list are the real estate brokers, tourism promoters ... and others selling something relative to Merida. I like the city, have enjoyed visits there, but I think most North Americans considering a move (people from above the Mexico/USA border) find the climate too harsh to live there year-round.



Steven John said:


> A lot of expats live right in the "centro" area which is downtown and love the old turn of the century colonial homes or in the Santa Anna section of the city which I really like.


5 to 10 years ago you could pick-up a house, a 'project house', for a 'song.' Not as inexpensive now, but still some nice properties up for sale and with sufficient funds to complete a renovation ... a very nice house is the result ... from what I'm seeing in real estate listings there. 



Steven John said:


> It's a 90 minute plane ride from Houston to Merida on United by the way. I'm here on a tourist passport six month visitation then have to leave for three days then I can come back in. It works great. I'm here for six month then fly to Houston do some shopping etc then fly back to Merida.


If you're a resident in Merida, then I believe the regulations require you to apply for and recieve a visa which is intended for residents. 'Border runs' likely violate the law, even though some people living illegally in Mexico continue to do that.



Steven John said:


> hillcountrynetradio dot com


I'm not certain promotion of websites or other businesses is permitted in a signature. The moderators will rule on that, I'm sure.

So, lucky you! Living in Progresso ... a spot I've enjoyed when visiting Merida.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> I'm not certain promotion of websites or other businesses is permitted in a signature. The moderators will rule on that, I'm sure.


Forum Rule 10. Self-promotional links to your blog, video channel, product, business, etc. are limited to your forum signature if you are an Active Member. Active members (those with a 5+ post count) are allowed only one link (no extra wording, lines of text, slogans, etc.). No one is allowed to post self promotional links in the main forum areas.


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## Steven John (Jun 25, 2012)

There is two versions of the Merida Initiative. The one that that "they" want you to see such as on Wikipedia or the truth from people who live here and control the city. I'm with the later group I've been told numerous times it's a protected city. Even heard that from my lawyer when I was doing my real estate documents last year.

What ever the "real story" is I have walked the back streets in both Merida and Progreso and have never had one incident. I sure wouldn't do that back in Austin, Texas in the Latino section or Houston for that matter. This regions takes it personal security and the safety of it's citizens very serious.

As far as Merida being or not being in one of the top retirement cities in the world, here is a recent Kiplinger article. Just do a Google search for these words and it's #2 on the first page.

Kiplinger Merida top retirement


The forum won't let me post url's apparently. 

As far as the weather goes it is hot in Merida and much like what I was use to in Texas which was
95 to 105 degrees most of the time. It gets up to 92 then at night down in the 70's
in Merida but at 2pm in the afternoon it is intense.

The concrete and asphalt intensify the heat which is why I'm up here on the beach in Progreso.

There are a lot of nice places in Mexico and I can visit San Cristobal De Las Casas or Puebla to escape the heat and stay in a hostel for a month and get to know those areas. There is so much to see
and the clock is running. 

As far as immigration goes your passport gives Americans up to six months to be in Mexico and then you have to leave and can come back in after three days. I've been doing this for years and never had anyone at the immigration arrival area tell me otherwise. The Mexican government welcomes all into it's country for six months with a passport. 

All my Canadian friends who come here for the fall and winter do the same thing and they have been here in my condo complex for the last four years doing this.



Steve


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Thanks for the responses.



Steven John said:


> I've been told numerous times it's a protected city. Even heard that from my lawyer when I was doing my real estate documents last year.


Don't believe everything you're told. And what would you expect local tourism/real estate people to tell you? I still don't think you understand what the Merida Initiative is all about. 



Steven John said:


> What ever the "real story" is I have walked the back streets in both Merida and Progreso and have never had one incident.


I'm not certain whose comments you're responding to. Maybe I've overlooked it, but I don't recall anyone questioning the security/personal safety situation in Merida or Progresso. 



Steven John said:


> As far as Merida being or not being in one of the top retirement cities in the world, here is a recent Kiplinger article. Just do a Google search for these words and it's #2 on the first page.


As I've already commented, articles such as the one you draw attention to are puff pieces by paid writers who promote certain destinations. I don't think that - of all the places in the world which might be suggested as a retirement / residence location for expats - that Merida would be in the Top 10. I'm not knocking Merida, just saying whomever is trying to convince you that it's a Top 10 choice is probably getting us to buy something there. 



Steven John said:


> As far as immigration goes your passport gives Americans up to six months to be in Mexico and then you have to leave and can come back in after three days. I've been doing this for years and never had anyone at the immigration arrival area tell me otherwise. The Mexican government welcomes all into it's country for six months with a passport.


I don't think you clearly understand the regulations, nor what a foreign (non-Mexican) passport is used for and what rights and privileges are attached.



Steven John said:


> All my Canadian friends who come here for the fall and winter do the same thing and they have been here in my condo complex for the last four years doing this.


There's a clear, understandable, difference in status when one compares a resident to a seasonal visitor ... even if the seasonal visitor owns property. A tourist/seasonal visitor is just that. And I think we all understand what "resident" means.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

Longford said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> Don't believe everything you're told. And what would you expect local tourism/real estate people to tell you? I still don't think you understand what the Merida Initiative is all about.
> .


Steven John I suggest you listen to what Longford says and do what he says - "don't believe everthing you're told." - therefore don't believe everything he tells you either.


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## PanamaJack (Apr 1, 2013)

I lived for a short period in Merida. Loved the arts and culture and the old part of the city, but the temperature was sweltering and having been raised in D.F. it was too much. Two other alternatives are Cuernavaca and Guanajuato. Thriving places with young, intellectual populations and good weather to boot.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

Ensenada but might be expat-friendly but don't expect the expat community anywhere in Baja Norte (TJ, Rosarito, Ensenada) to be like in other parts of Mexico. Expats here tend to remain isolated and most activities are geared towards the age 65+ crowd.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Would that exclude those of us in other age groups; like 75+ ?


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks, everyone, for all the kind replies. I took notes! Now I will have to see where appropriate jobs might turn up...

Another thread going on right now, on appealing coastal areas in Mexico, has also been quite helpful.


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