# Moving Business to Mexico from US



## cfaulds

I know its been said but great site!

I have a good one for you…

*Canadian Citizen
*On a 5 year E2 Visa in USA
*Expires 07/2017
*Nevada LLC doing business in California
*Business’s current rev. $200k and growing/no employees.
Renewal of E2 may not happen short of a miracle and going back to Canada will implode the business so Mexico is the only realistic option to continue.
Prior to my E2 Expiry I want to apply for Residente Temporal (2-4 years if possible) or Residente Permanente.
I have read about many types of Mexican Visa’s and they all have story. I think it best to hire a lawyer but want some info on the following:

1. What type of visa is best in your opinion considering I am self employed. FM3?
2. Should I keep my Nevada LLC and run all USA business through it, paying IRS or should I shut it down and open and corp. in Mexico? if so what are the hurdles. Currently all my clients are in the US but moving to Mexico may add local clients as well, I have a feeling this may effect your answer.

My business sells a specialty print product that requires me to bring my 2 printers to operate. I don’t need that much space so I was hoping to rent a house in Chapala or San Miguel de Allende? and work out of my house. Is this a problem or would I need to rent a commercial unit like in the US?

After much reading I still can't decide the best place to move. San Miguel de Allende is a bit isolated and has an air pollution issue due to brick making/rubber burning plant. Chapala seems good but the weather isn't as warm as I'd like and not convinced hospital is as good as it should be and I need access to DHL delivery service (not through 3rd Party)

Side note:
Spanish is weak at best
Need private school for 5 year old
need to hire a few people
need best hospital - just in case
safe community a must!


Any thoughts on where I should live?


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## Longford

My suggestion: start by deciding where you want to relocate to in Mexico, and then find an attorney who is experienced in business in Mexico as well as one who understands the structures of business in the USA. Second thought: Consider visiting one of the Deloitte Touche offices in Mexico (principal one is Mexico City). That firm, known to be accountants in the USA, also, in Mexico, offers legal services, immigration assistance, etc. Your situation is important enough to get off to the right start, right from the beginning ... by seeking the best professional advice you can afford.

Best of luck with your research.


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## cfaulds

I am thinking that Chapala might make for the easiest transition from California. Schools are important for my 6 year old. Also there seems to be some good gated communities there as well. 
Do you Chapala might be the right area? if not what alternatives areas would be good.

Thanks


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## maesonna

cfaulds said:


> 1. What type of visa is best in your opinion considering I am self employed. FM3?


Just one small comment about this: old web pages hang around forever. But any Mexican visa advice you read that talks about FM2 vs. FM3 is outdated; these visas don’t exist any more. 

It is now _residente temporal_ (temporary) and _residente permanente_ (permanent). A person who starts out with a _temporal_ can keep it for 4 years, then they have convert to a _permanente_ visa if they want to stay in Mexico. This is different from the former system, when a person could stay in Mexico on a series of FM3 visas forever.

It is also possible, under some circumstances, to get a _permanente_ visa right off the bat without going through 4 years of _temporal_.


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## maesonna

Your 6-year-old will probably have a much easier time transitioning, language-wise, than you, and theyll likely be better off if you look for a good school for your child where they’ll get a good education (even if it’s in Spanish) than trying to ease them in by choosing an expat enclave to live. For your sake, sure, but not for the kid’s. 

At this age, they’ll pick up Spanish in a few months. Most so-called “bilingual” schools are sadly deficient in English instruction, better to send them to a regular school and read to them at home in English. That’s what worked for us; my kids are 100% bilingual even though none of their English teachers were competent.


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## RVGRINGO

Gated communities often are not really gated and can be targets of opportunity. Living on a normal street in a normal neighborhood is much more agreeable to most people. No HOA grumblers, dues, restrictive rules, car dependency and isolation from life that goes on in the town. It might also be much easier for your business, especially if you have employees.


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## cfaulds

Thanks for the great feedback. 

What would you consider the top 3 expatriate places to live in Mexico?


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## maesonna

I don’t think that question is useful for getting you to the best place for you and your family. A more productive way to choose is to think about what you want and what you can do without (good weather, beaches, close to an airport for trips home, low cost of living, small town, big city, good internet, security, amenities, good school, good shopping, etc.), and then ask where are the best places to live – for anyone, expat or not – that give you the things you don’t want to give up.


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## cfaulds

good point!

Based on my research of weather/safety/shopping/schools/english community.... Chapala seems to meet all the markers. So I guess what i am asking, is there a town with all that Chapala has to offer but better? Initially I was stuck on San Miguel de Allende but a closer look revealed locational issues, air pollution, 3 hour drive to international airport etc...

Also I will be shipping my product via DHL so I need to have access to a DHL pick up centre as well

Thanks


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## maesonna

I can’t think of a better place for your requirements than Mexico City.


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## SirRon

acapulco !!!!!


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## cfaulds

No to Mexico city due to : Crime/Noise/Pollution


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## cfaulds

Acapulco, never considered it. Tell me why you think moving my business and family there would be for the best.

Thanks!


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## SirRon

acapulco, you can find reasonable housing in safe area's 

there are beaches hot all year long here

there are many stores to buy american foods which you will miss later that are sold here

we have burger king, mc donalds, apple bee's, pizza hut, dominos, subway, kfc, hard rock cafe, walmart, sams club, cosco, home depot, the list goes on

sending my daughter school next year with english speaking teachers here, and she will learn both english and spanish at the same time 

there are some wonderful schools here for children 

im not really a eckrich bologna fan but you might miss this one day, you can get that here

many say acapulco is not safe to live, its just like anywhere else in the world you hang out with bad people, bad things will happen

lots to see and do here

easy to go any where else in mexico from this location

dhl fedex ups and other companies

no mules ( 3rd party )

again almost anything you could want and need is available here 

those wonderful smaller cities in mexico , you burn a bridge with one person your screwed 

life will be hell for you there always getting robbed etc... 

here it is possible to live in communities with people with your income and lifestyle, ( and not be the odd ball everyone looks at )


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## GARYJ65

Does Chapala has good schools?
Really?

Acapulco? I would never ever consider it
It's not safe, lousy schools, polluted bay, too much poverty. It is in Guerrero! Not close to any international airport, then...why Acapulco?
I would recommend Mexico City or Queretaro


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## GARYJ65

San Miguel?
I like it a lot. But living there...no
I would not consider the "pollution due to brick making" that is not an issue
Not close to an international airport
Schools, what do we consider as a good school?
I would rather think about Queretaro


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## TundraGreen

SirRon said:


> …we have burger king, mc donalds, apple bee's, pizza hut, dominos, subway, kfc, hard rock cafe, walmart, sams club, cosco, home depot, the list goes on…


Sounds like a good reason to stay away.


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## citlali

Do not know about Chapala but I know several graduates from Terra Nova in Ajijic, they are truly bilingual and have a great education.t hey are now goin to various good universities so it is possible to get a decent educaion in the Lake Chapala area.


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## ValRomx

cfaulds said:


> good point!
> 
> Based on my research of weather/safety/shopping/schools/english community.... Chapala seems to meet all the markers. So I guess what i am asking, is there a town with all that Chapala has to offer but better? Initially I was stuck on San Miguel de Allende but a closer look revealed locational issues, air pollution, 3 hour drive to international airport etc...
> 
> Also I will be shipping my product via DHL so I need to have access to a DHL pick up centre as well
> 
> Thanks


I hope this doesn't come across as too snarky, but I'm afraid it might. First, don't believe everything you read about Mexico that's on the internet, including this post.

It's in your best interests to come to Mexico and visit a few places. Reading about Mexico does not give you a real picture of Mexico. Reading is not living nor working in Mexico. Owning a business here is not the same as owning a business in the U.S.

If safety and gated communities are high on your list without having spent time in Mexico, maybe Mexico isn't the right place for you and your family.

You haven't mentioned Querétaro as a site for your business - as its one of the fastest-growing cities in the country with a large international business base, it could prove better than either Chapala (despite its proximity to Guadalajara) or San Miguel.

Being a business person, you've probably researched the impact international shipping, customs and Mexico's tax structure will have on the sales of your product and its raw materials, if any. You've already read up on the laws of hiring Mexican employees and contractors, right? You've spoken with business owners to find out how they were able to set up shop? You're on top of IMSS, your rights (or lack thereof) with regard to hiring/firing? 

The information you have about air pollution in San Miguel is current, right? Like within the last year? I've noticed no mass exodus of expats from SMA due to pollution in the almost three years I've lived here.

San Miguel is within an hour-and-a half or so drive of the Querétaro and León international airports, both of which have flights to/from the U.S.-I don't know about other countries. So you aren't locked into using Benito Juarez in Mexico City.


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## cfaulds

I appreciate the feedback about Acapulco but I agree with Tundragreen and Gary on that one.
As for Queretaro I'm intrigued. At first sight it seems a little to metropolitan from me but I'm open minded. What I like about Chapala is the small town atmosphere with modern amenities. the fact that 10%+ of the population speaks english is a big plus.
GaryJ's comment about the "good schools, really?" has me very concerned.

Help!


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## GARYJ65

citlali said:


> Do not know about Chapala but I know several graduates from Terra Nova in Ajijic, they are truly bilingual and have a great education.t hey are now goin to various good universities so it is possible to get a decent educaion in the Lake Chapala area.


I take there are some Universities there?
Or do they have to go somewhere else?


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> I appreciate the feedback about Acapulco but I agree with Tundragreen and Gary on that one. As for Queretaro I'm intrigued. At first sight it seems a little to metropolitan from me but I'm open minded. What I like about Chapala is the small town atmosphere with modern amenities. the fact that 10%+ of the population speaks english is a big plus. GaryJ's comment about the "good schools, really?" has me very concerned. Help!


I guess in Mexico it is either metropolitan or ....not so much, and then rural
If you look for safety, good schools, hospitals, International airport, within 2 hr from Mexico City, modern amenities as you say, take a look at Queretaro
English in Mexico is bad, not so much in Chapala, Ajijic, and... I guess that's it, not even Mexico City or Monterrey


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## cfaulds

ValRomx said:


> I hope this doesn't come across as too snarky, but I'm afraid it might. First, don't believe everything you read about Mexico that's on the internet, including this post.
> 
> It's in your best interests to come to Mexico and visit a few places. Reading about Mexico does not give you a real picture of Mexico. Reading is not living nor working in Mexico. Owning a business here is not the same as owning a business in the U.S.
> 
> If safety and gated communities are high on your list without having spent time in Mexico, maybe Mexico isn't the right place for you and your family.
> 
> You haven't mentioned Querétaro as a site for your business - as its one of the fastest-growing cities in the country with a large international business base, it could prove better than either Chapala (despite its proximity to Guadalajara) or San Miguel.
> 
> Being a business person, you've probably researched the impact international shipping, customs and Mexico's tax structure will have on the sales of your product and its raw materials, if any. You've already read up on the laws of hiring Mexican employees and contractors, right? You've spoken with business owners to find out how they were able to set up shop? You're on top of IMSS, your rights (or lack thereof) with regard to hiring/firing?
> 
> The information you have about air pollution in San Miguel is current, right? Like within the last year? I've noticed no mass exodus of expats from SMA due to pollution in the almost three years I've lived here.
> 
> San Miguel is within an hour-and-a half or so drive of the Querétaro and León international airports, both of which have flights to/from the U.S.-I don't know about other countries. So you aren't locked into using Benito Juarez in Mexico City.





cfaulds said:


> I appreciate the feedback about Acapulco but I agree with Tundragreen and Gary on that one.
> As for Queretaro I'm intrigued. At first sight it seems a little to metropolitan from me but I'm open minded. What I like about Chapala is the small town atmosphere with modern amenities. the fact that 10%+ of the population speaks english is a big plus.
> GaryJ's comment about the "good schools, really?" has me very concerned.
> 
> Help!


Val Great info and i don't think your snarky at all, I respect the your opinion!

Firstly, one has to start somewhere when researching a country they have never travelled other than a few vacations in the Mayan Riviera. So as you can imagine its totally different when choosing a place to live and work.
As for the gated community, I agree with you its a false sense of security and create a disconnect to the locals which is not what i want.

Hiring Mexicans; yes have read up on this and I get it, the laws favor the employee, Vacation pay.... maybe I just don't hire any if it going to be a hassle.. 15 hr. days don't bother me!

Duty's/ customs etc fall under NAFTA so I not concerned but requires further research.

As for Queretaro it sounds like a winner for all the reasons you mentioned but might not be a good transition from California my wife sake.(i have to warm her up to the whole idea)


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## GARYJ65

I would not think there is a good transitional site in Mexico
Mexico is a whole different world, in just about any sense


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I would not think there is a good transitional site in Mexico
> Mexico is a whole different world, in just about any sense


An excellent comment, Gary. Even places in Mexico with good-sized expat communities are still "Mexican" with all the pluses and minuses that implies.


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## Isla Verde

cfaulds said:


> As for Queretaro it sounds like a winner for all the reasons you mentioned but might not be a good transition from California my wife sake.(i have to warm her up to the whole idea)


If your wife is cool to the idea of moving to Mexico, I suggest coming down here a few times and spending time in areas far from the Riviera Maya to give both her and yourself an idea of what it is like to live in the Mexico most of us call home.


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## cfaulds

An unsettling thing happened as I write this.... I turn the channel to my regular show Dateline NBC and low and behold its a show about a family whose husband/ father living in San Miguel is kidnapped and held for ransom for 7 months as they beat and starved him almost to death! Is this what everyone means when they say you can't understand mexico until you experience it. If my wife had not gone to bed early my odds of getting her to move to Mexico would have disappeared!
Am I crazy to even consider moving to Mexico!


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## cfaulds

Another reason not to move to Acapulco area:

Mexican authorities say they're not done. There are still suspects at large they have to detain, and detainees they must try and sentence. But Mexican Attorney General Jesus Murillo Karam says there is "legal certainty" that 43 college students who went missing four months ago in the Mexican state of Guerrero were murdered.


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## SirRon

cfaulds said:


> Another reason not to move to Acapulco area:
> 
> Mexican authorities say they're not done. There are still suspects at large they have to detain, and detainees they must try and sentence. But Mexican Attorney General Jesus Murillo Karam says there is "legal certainty" that 43 college students who went missing four months ago in the Mexican state of Guerrero were murdered.


this did not happen in acapulco, the protesters picked this city to get world wide news exposure 

it worked and i do not blame them

but i'm not sure of any reports of americans canadians or other expats that were effected from this


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> An unsettling thing happened as I write this.... I turn the channel to my regular show Dateline NBC and low and behold its a show about a family whose husband/ father living in San Miguel is kidnapped and held for ransom for 7 months as they beat and starved him almost to death! Is this what everyone means when they say you can't understand mexico until you experience it. If my wife had not gone to bed early my odds of getting her to move to Mexico would have disappeared! Am I crazy to even consider moving to Mexico!


[Cut] happens everywhere
There are 120 000 000 Mexicans here and we do not get kidnapped every day
If you are living in the US, are you crazy for living there when hearing about Ted Bundy, the unabomber and people alike?


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Another reason not to move to Acapulco area: Mexican authorities say they're not done. There are still suspects at large they have to detain, and detainees they must try and sentence. But Mexican Attorney General Jesus Murillo Karam says there is "legal certainty" that 43 college students who went missing four months ago in the Mexican state of Guerrero were murdered.


Murillo is not the attorney general anymore
Yet, Guerrero state is still dangerous


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## Longford

cfaulds said:


> Am I crazy to even consider moving to Mexico!


IMO, you're nowhere ready to seriously consider such a move. Continue to do your research, continue to monitor the opinions of your wife/family and spend some time in Mexico in the communities you have on a short list of possible relocation points. You likely have months of work ahead of you before you'll know the answer. Not being fluent in Spanish will cause you many problems if you want to set-up shop in Mexico and do business, hire employees, etc. Without a Mexican partner, given what you're lacking at this point ... your chances of success might be slim. It'll take a total commitment on the part of you and your wife to make this work.


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## cfaulds

Sorry, 
Had a moment. Stuff happens everywhere.


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## RVGRINGO

I miss Chapala, my home for the last 13+ years. Now stuck in Tucson, the TV is full of crime reports every day, while the media hype about Mexico keeps dredging up events from many years ago, few of which have involved expats.


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## maesonna

cfaulds said:


> No to Mexico city due to : Crime/Noise/Pollution


And yet I live here in Mexico City, 100% of the time, and I think it’s a great place for what you’re looking for, otherwise I wouldn’t have suggested it. Only, if you think Mexico City will be more crime-ridden and noisier than other places you might choose, you may be in for some disappointment. On the pollution, I have to give you that, but it’s gotten a lot better over the last decade than its previous reputation.


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## coondawg

cfaulds said:


> An unsettling thing happened as I write this.... I turn the channel to my regular show Dateline NBC and low and behold its a show about a family whose husband/ father living in San Miguel is kidnapped and held for ransom for 7 months as they beat and starved him almost to death! Is this what everyone means when they say you can't understand mexico until you experience it. If my wife had not gone to bed early my odds of getting her to move to Mexico would have disappeared!
> Am I crazy to even consider moving to Mexico!


Certainly not crazy, but maybe unprepared at this time. We, too, saw the program, and I have a Mexican wife with LARGE family in Leon, Gto., where we live 1/2 time. We thought the program was very accurate, and were especially impressed with the comments by both the wife and Mexican husband. They gave a deep insight that often escapes people from NOB. Lots of extortions and kidnappings happen in Mexico and many, many are not reported for fear that the authorities are involved; you need to live in Mexico to really try to begin to understand it. The people have experienced these things for decades; it is not a new fear for them, like it will be for you and your wife, especially if you are in a business. 

There are so many differences between the attitudes of employers/employees, holidays, police, etc., etc., etc. that one just has to "experience" those things first hand to begin to realize that Mexico is very much different from anything you have experienced(often you may not understand the reasons why, just that is the way it is). Corruption is rampant and has been for many years.

Coming to live for a time to experience Mexico would help a lot. Good luck.


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## coondawg

cfaulds said:


> I am thinking that Chapala might make for the easiest transition from California. Schools are important for my 6 year old. Also there seems to be some good gated communities there as well.
> Do you Chapala might be the right area? if not what alternatives areas would be good.
> 
> Thanks


Sorry I did not read from the beginning, but as someone who lived from 1999 to 2013 in Chapala, I think it would be your best beginning place. Still, a trial period (the longer the better) would serve you and your family. Everything that you mention is there, good doctors, close to excellent hospitals in Guadalajara, best climate in all of Mexico, good schools, lots of English speaking people, airport; so transition will be very easy. Probably safer (whatever that means. than many places in Mexico). Most extranjeros can live in Mexico(especially in Chapala/Ajijic with their heads in the sand) and not be aware of the multiplicity of problems, unless they have many dealing with government officials, police, etc. The more interaction you have, the more you become aware of problems.


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## GARYJ65

But Chapala is about 1 hr drive from Guadalajara, it does not have access to good hospitals then.
Same thing for shopping malls
It is not an important business place to Mexico
I must admit, almost everyone there speak some English, but then again, what do you need that for if you are moving to Mexico?


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I must admit, almost everyone there speak some English, but then again, what do you need that for if you are moving to Mexico?


Someone who arrives in Mexico speaking little or no Spanish might like the idea of living in a place where a working knowledge of Spanish isn't necessary settle into their new life. Of course, that doesn't mean I recommend making no effort to learn the local language - in fact, I shudder at the thought!


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## RVGRINGO

If shipping is important, the Guadalajara International Airport is only 30 minutes north of Chapala, with the usual services. Guadalajara Centro is one hour from Chapala.
Unless you are a ‘mall-rat‘, Chapala can provide everything you might need; even deliveries from COSTCO by a local shopping service, a local Walmart, Soriana, SuperLake for imported goodies, etc. Chapala centro has fine shopping, including a three story Coppel department store, etc. Ajijic, part of Chapala, is five miles west if you want to live in “expat central“. We preferred Chapala centro and lived there very happily.


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## GARYJ65

Again, my recommendation stays in Queretaro
International airport is right there
It is a thriving state
It has very good hospitals, right there
The largest mall in latin America
It is the second safest state in Mexico
Ver good schools and universities, right there

I am a chilango, by the way, but recommend living in Queretaro because of all that


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## cfaulds

Longford said:


> IMO, you're nowhere ready to seriously consider such a move. Continue to do your research, continue to monitor the opinions of your wife/family and spend some time in Mexico in the communities you have on a short list of possible relocation points. You likely have months of work ahead of you before you'll know the answer. Not being fluent in Spanish will cause you many problems if you want to set-up shop in Mexico and do business, hire employees, etc. Without a Mexican partner, given what you're lacking at this point ... your chances of success might be slim. It'll take a total commitment on the part of you and your wife to make this work.


I'd like to address Longford's comment.

In my original post I was clear in saying I had over a year and a half before a decision was required about moving to Mexico. Having said that, my research has started well in advance and feel it prudent to start asking questions at this juncture. Currently I am taking Spanish lessons via Rosetta Stone and my wife is fluent English/Italian so she understands much of what is being said in Spanish, being a school teacher doesn't hurt either.
I don't need a Mexican partner because I do all my own file work, printing, shipping etc. I already have established clients in the US and Japan and don't necessarily need clients in Mexico but it would be nice to expand the business there.
As to your comment that my chances of success might be slim, I beg to differ. I can move there, never speak to anyone other than the DHL guy and make 150K+ with my existing clients.I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you didn't ready my full original posting. I do however appreciate the fact you took the time to respond to my thread.

Thanks!


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## cfaulds

GARYJ65 said:


> Again, my recommendation stays in Queretaro
> International airport is right there
> It is a thriving state
> It has very good hospitals, right there
> The largest mall in latin America
> It is the second safest state in Mexico
> Ver good schools and universities, right there
> 
> I am a chilango, by the way, but recommend living in Queretaro because of all that


Chilango You make some rather convincing arguments for Queretaro. The Mall would be great for my product should they allow Kiosks but originally I was thinking about approaching the vendors selling goods to the cruise ship tourists. Yes I know neither is close to that logistically but I would only need to hire a sales person to approch them all and deal directly with him/her. Or find a local distributor for my product. To give you an idea, the Wynn Hotel in Vegas and Asia are clients of mine yet far from my biggest clients.
I just feel moving to a place like Queretaro would be like jumping into the deep end of a pool for the first time. (if that makes sense)


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Chilango You make some rather convincing arguments for Queretaro. The Mall would be great for my product should they allow Kiosks but originally I was thinking about approaching the vendors selling goods to the cruise ship tourists. Yes I know neither is close to that logistically but I would only need to hire a sales person to approch them all and deal directly with him/her. Or find a local distributor for my product. To give you an idea, the Wynn Hotel in Vegas and Asia are clients of mine yet far from my biggest clients.
> I just feel moving to a place like Queretaro would be like jumping into the deep end of a pool for the first time. (if that makes sense)


I mentioned the mall for your wife!
I would not dare to suggest about where to sell your products or services, since I know nothing about those.

I suggest either Mexico City or Queretaro to start a business and raise a family, either one you choose will be a bungee jump
If you choose a place that is not commercially thriving, it'll be a bungee jump without the rope


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## cfaulds

GARYJ65 said:


> I mentioned the mall for your wife!
> I would not dare to suggest about where to sell your products or services, since I know nothing about those.
> 
> I suggest either Mexico City or Queretaro to start a business and raise a family, either one you choose will be a bungee jump
> If you choose a place that is not commercially thriving, it'll be a bungee jump without the rope


I am not starting a new business. The thought of expanding my business is good given time, but I can produce my products anywhere and would prefer to do so in a quite mellow location without interference from anyone. I am clearly a lone maverick who prefers to do thinks on his own but always welcomes new customers

I don't mean to be short or maybe I am missing something. I just want to produce my existing product for my existing customers and don't need new business to survive. Therefore no bungee jump required other than figuring out where to live and where to send my son to school. Its been said "If you make the money, the rest takes care of itself"


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## GARYJ65

It will be new if you bring it to Mexico, believe me


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## cfaulds

GARYJ65 said:


> It will be new if you bring it to Mexico, believe me


You say this with underlying tones. I hope you don't mean its going to be a nightmare for me. Can you help explain some of the hurdles I might encounter? I look at my business as web based. Sell it online, make it, ship it! easy Although I am a little worried about bring my machines across the boarder.


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## Longford

> In my original post I was clear in saying I had over a year and a half before a decision was required about moving to Mexico. Having said that, my research has started well in advance and feel it prudent to start asking questions at this juncture.


Yes, you're doing the smart thing by asking questions well in advance ... to determine whether or not such a move is the wise thing to do.



> Currently I am taking Spanish lessons via Rosetta Stone and my wife is fluent English/Italian so she understands much of what is being said in Spanish, being a school teacher doesn't hurt either.


Your wife shouldn't have difficulty learning Spanish, given the language foundation she already has. As for you, what you want to do is get yourself into a total immersion program someplace in Mexico to really learn 'up close and personal.' For your needs, learning by tape/computer, etc. won't cut it IMO. It'll take you more than just a few months to learn and understand Spanish, even after you move to Mexico.



> I don't need a Mexican partner because I do all my own file work, printing, shipping etc. I already have established clients in the US and Japan and don't necessarily need clients in Mexico but it would be nice to expand the business there. ... I can move there, never speak to anyone other than the DHL guy and make 150K+ with my existing clients.


I don't think you have a clue as to what you're going to encounter once in Mexico, particularly so if you conduct business in Mexico, hire employees, pay and/or file taxes in a couple of countries. You won't be living in isolation. You'll be required to maneuver a tangled web of government regulations within a culture you seem almost totally unfamiliar with. You may not need a business partner, but you'll need very good professional advice and a key person (Mexican) to help manage your operation in Mexico ... or I think you'll crash and burn quickly.



> I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you didn't ready my full original posting.


I've read everything you've written.


----------



## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> You say this with underlying tones. I hope you don't mean its going to be a nightmare for me. Can you help explain some of the hurdles I might encounter? I look at my business as web based. Sell it online, make it, ship it! easy Although I am a little worried about bring my machines across the boarder.


That will be the first adventure, then, dealing with a different culture, as I understand it so far, without speaking Spanish.
Then comes the family matters, wife adjusting as well, kids going to school, this is, once you have searched and interviewing with many different ones.
And the list goes on...
Is it going to be a nightmare, I hope not, but it could become one easily


----------



## cfaulds

Longford said:


> Yes, you're doing the smart thing by asking questions well in advance ... to determine whether or not such a move is the wise thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife shouldn't have difficulty learning Spanish, given the language foundation she already has. As for you, what you want to do is get yourself into a total immersion program someplace in Mexico to really learn 'up close and personal.' For your needs, learning by tape/computer, etc. won't cut it IMO. It'll take you more than just a few months to learn and understand Spanish, even after you move to Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what you're going to encounter once in Mexico, particularly so if you conduct business in Mexico, hire employees, pay and/or file taxes in a couple of countries. You won't be living in isolation. You'll be required to maneuver a tangled web of government regulations within a culture you seem almost totally unfamiliar with. You may not need a business partner, but you'll need very good professional advice and a key person (Mexican) to help manage your operation in Mexico ... or I think you'll crash and burn quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read everything you've written.


It sounds to as though Mexico isn't business friendly. I do agree I will have to hire a good accountant/lawyer. I was under the impression that if you move to mexico, don't hire anyone and don't sell anything in Mexico (stay under the radar) you have no obligation tax wise. I have read that many just fly under the radar in this regard.


----------



## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> It sounds to as though Mexico isn't business friendly. I do agree I will have to hire a good accountant/lawyer. I was under the impression that if you move to mexico, don't hire anyone and don't sell anything in Mexico (stay under the radar) you have no obligation tax wise. I have read that many just fly under the radar in this regard.


That was a good one
You can do the very same thing in the US, but if they catch you...I don't think anyone likes to live in a Mexican prison

Mexico is as business friendly as any other Country, as long as one gets acquainted with the rules and Mexican ways. We could ask lots and lots of successful companies about this


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## coondawg

cfaulds said:


> It sounds to as though Mexico isn't business friendly. I do agree I will have to hire a good accountant/lawyer. I was under the impression that if you move to mexico, don't hire anyone and don't sell anything in Mexico (stay under the radar) you have no obligation tax wise. I have read that many just fly under the radar in this regard.


I am aware of several people in the Chapala/Ajijic area that " fly under the radar" with an Internet business. Very few people are aware that they do so.
I tried to start a business (different from yours) in 2005 in Chapala and was told by the Mayor's representative that basically I could do anything in Mexico that I wanted to do (he meant if I was willing to pay a "little" cooperation). To get my permit from their office, he wanted 3/4 of what I figured I could make a day (every day). I changed my mind and sold my investment. It didn't bother him at all. (as Gary says: rules and Mexican Way). You have a LOT to learn about doing business in Mexico, as corruption is rampant. IMHO. There was a LOT of excellent information in the documentary you saw on the tv.

I am not sure what "machines" you need to bring, but if they feel it has to do with a business, you can be at their mercy.

I still believe that Chapala is your best starting point, but YOU must make your own decision, as we do not walk in your shoes. A trip to Lakeside and some time there will be very valuable for you and your family, IMHO.


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## cfaulds

Ahhh! now were talking! honesty is so refreshing. Gary reply's to everything like he works for the Chamber of Commerce for the State of Queretaro! I mean he is constantly selling the virtues of Mexico and doing business there and you know what they say "if it sounds to good to be true, it is"
As for your situation, I am not surprised with the corruption but 75% of what you earned! thats laughable. just return the favor and tell them you will earn $2 a day.LOL Sounds to me like you opened a can of worms there. The less you say the better off you are. It wouldn't surprise me if they monitor this site for potential victims.

The documentary I watched was scary and people say if I want to live in a gated community I don't know anything about living in Mexico, YA RIGHT!

If I do end up deciding on Mexico, I will hire a good lawyer to make sure I don't get screwed over or i'll load up the truck and move out.


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## LMtortugas

With all due respect, my take is preservation/maintenance of the business is your overriding objective, not a genuine commitment to relocate the lives 
of you & yours to Mexico. Contributing posts, particularly from Longford, have put forward some candid straightforward advice and comment that I would give serious attention and consideration to. 

A foreigner can't simply constitute a business entity in Mexico. It is not unduly cumbersome & difficult, but house rules require a Mexican partner/spouse or a sizable capital investment along with a stack of commitments. Even a small scale business requires commercial banking, regular reporting of P&L , appropriate licenses, and a THOROUGH understanding of the ways & means of conducting such business in the country.

Why not relocate home to Canada and simply open a branch in Mexico. Again, heed given suggestions and consult with a competent business advisor/CPA.

Regarding ...working under the radar - avoiding taxation... maybe I am just getting old and weak-kneed but I would emphatically recommend against.


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Ahhh! now were talking! honesty is so refreshing. Gary reply's to everything like he works for the Chamber of Commerce for the State of Queretaro! I mean he is constantly selling the virtues of Mexico and doing business there and you know what they say "if it sounds to good to be true, it is" As for your situation, I am not surprised with the corruption but 75% of what you earned! thats laughable. just return the favor and tell them you will earn $2 a day.LOL Sounds to me like you opened a can of worms there. The less you say the better off you are. It wouldn't surprise me if they monitor this site for potential victims. The documentary I watched was scary and people say if I want to live in a gated community I don't know anything about living in Mexico, YA RIGHT! If I do end up deciding on Mexico, I will hire a good lawyer to make sure I don't get screwed over or i'll load up the truck and move out.


I am originally from Mexico City, have lived in quite a few places before and been living in Queretaro for the last 17 years, more or less, it works for me and many others. I have a successful construction business, pay taxes, all is clear and make a decent living on that.
That is why I still live here and recommend it to people that ask where to settle in Mexico. If they want to hear to what I say, good for them, if they don't, it is the very same to me.
Mexico is a great place to live, in my opinion, but as we say here, everyone talks accordingly to how the fair was to them. 
In order to hire a good (good meaning efficient) lawyer, you would have to speak the language well or... Hire a good and expensive firm, ( von Wobeser as an example) that can speak other languages an charge very very expensive fees.
There is a saying in Mexico: el que es perico, donde quiera es verde y el que es... P...tonto, en donde quiera pierde
If someone is a parrot, he is green everywhere, and if you are stupid, you loose everywhere

So, if you are a parrot, you don't have to worry about anything


----------



## coondawg

cfaulds said:


> Ahhh! now were talking! honesty is so refreshing. Gary reply's to everything like he works for the Chamber of Commerce for the State of Queretaro! I mean he is constantly selling the virtues of Mexico and doing business there and you know what they say "if it sounds to good to be true, it is"
> As for your situation, I am not surprised with the corruption but 75% of what you earned! thats laughable. just return the favor and tell them you will earn $2 a day.LOL Sounds to me like you opened a can of worms there. The less you say the better off you are. It wouldn't surprise me if they monitor this site for potential victims.
> 
> The documentary I watched was scary and people say if I want to live in a gated community I don't know anything about living in Mexico, YA RIGHT!
> 
> If I do end up deciding on Mexico, I will hire a good lawyer to make sure I don't get screwed over or i'll load up the truck and move out.


Just a couple of quick comments. (1) I thought I could average about 400 pesos a day without a lot of effort (but I never mentioned a number to them). They wanted 300p a day from me for my permit. Unreal, no?
(2) You write as though you think it is easy to find an honest attorney/CPA in Mexico. Remember what Gary said: "rules and Mexican way." Many will bleed you dry before you get anything accomplished. They could not care less if you "load the truck and move out". You will be an extranjero and a temporary source of money.  Mexico is a new experience.
You can, however, live a good life in Mexico, and the LESS you have contact with officials, the easier it can be. Keep a low profile, pay your bills regularly, don't flaunt anything, learn patience, and don't complain.

Con dinero, baila el perro; sin dinero, baila como perro.


----------



## coondawg

coondawg said:


> Con dinero, baila el perro; sin dinero, baila como perro.


If you have money, the dog will dance for you; if you don't have money, you will dance like the dog.


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## cfaulds

I hear good things about a lawyer named SPENCER McMULLEN in town. Have you heard anything otherwise ? I mean Gary makes it seem like I have to hire F LEE Bailey to not get screwed over. I loosing hope for Mexico real fast.


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> I hear good things about a lawyer named SPENCER McMULLEN in town. Have you heard anything otherwise ? I mean Gary makes it seem like I have to hire F LEE Bailey to not get screwed over. I loosing hope for Mexico real fast.


I don't want to be rude, just want to be realistic, Mexico does not care about you loosing hope for it
I am not trying to make it look like anything, really, 
Forget about Gary, I must be crazy
Try it and Later tell us how it was
You know much better than anyone


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## GARYJ65

I don't know Spencer Mc Mullen, just googled him 
He might be a good lawyer in Chapala, but he is not one of the best lawyers in Mexico
He has a facebook account that says lic El Güero ( attorney the blonde one, or attorney Blondie) does it strikes you as a good lawyer?


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## GARYJ65

Google Von Wobeser y Sierra, that is one good law firm, among others


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I don't know Spencer Mc Mullen, just googled him
> He might be a good lawyer in Chapala, but he is not one of the best lawyers in Mexico
> He has a facebook account that says lic El Güero ( attorney the blonde one, or attorney Blondie) does it strikes you as a good lawyer?


Maybe he thinks it will go over well with prospective clients. 

By the way, "blondie" is not a great way to translate "güero"; in fact, I can't think of a really accurate way to translate this uniquely Mexican word, which refers to anyone who has light skin as much as it does to people with light hair or even eyes. I don't like its racial undertones, but that's just me.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> Maybe he thinks it will go over well with prospective clients. By the way, "blondie" is not a great way to translate "güero"; in fact, I can't think of a really accurate way to translate this uniquely Mexican word, which refers to anyone who has light skin as much as it does to people with light hair or even eyes. I don't like its racial undertones, but that's just me.


Sometimes we say Güero, el güero (the blond one or the fair skinned one) el güerito or güerita (the blondie)
And yes, maybe he has the idea of having a facebook account with licenciado el Güero, and a picture of himself, with sunglasses and driving a car, would get him good clients as a lawyer


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## cfaulds

It's all Gary, no worries. I think the fact that you have a great love for Mexico is great and I truly wish nothing but the best for you. I am just getting a little bitter about the fact that corruption still plays such a major role in Mexico. Its a shame because many businesses would relocate there and have a very positive effect on the economy if it wasn't for web of lies and corruption. Its truly sad. 
Between the drug wars and corruption its a wonder anyone lives there at all, never mind trying to start a business.
In the end I guess I got the info I was looking for and it all points to looking elsewhere to relocate my business.


----------



## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> It's all Gary, no worries. I think the fact that you have a great love for Mexico is great and I truly wish nothing but the best for you. I am just getting a little bitter about the fact that corruption still plays such a major role in Mexico. Its a shame because many businesses would relocate there and have a very positive effect on the economy if it wasn't for web of lies and corruption. Its truly sad. Between the drug wars and corruption its a wonder anyone lives there at all, never mind trying to start a business. In the end I guess I got the info I was looking for and it all points to looking elsewhere to relocate my business.


Best luck in your endeavours!
We will keep living in this wonder


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## Isla Verde

cfaulds said:


> . . .
> Between the drug wars and corruption its a wonder anyone lives there at all, never mind trying to start a business.


I don't know how I have survived living in this horrible country since I moved here in 2007. I wonder what's wrong with me . . .


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## cfaulds

You never tried to start or relocate a business would be my guess


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> I don't know how I have survived living in this horrible country since I moved here in 2007. I wonder what's wrong with me . . .


Horrible horrible place!


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> You never tried to start or relocate a business would be my guess


In 1990 I started working for an American (Texan) fortune 500 company. They wanted to start the mexican operation. It was a blast!
Many headaches, many problems, many complaints of my texan friends. After all, we succeded 
Many companies and business people do the same, I know quite a few of them. 
They had a plan, a goal, lots of patience and open mind. It can be done. I am not saying it is an easy task


----------



## cfaulds

coondawg said:


> I am aware of several people in the Chapala/Ajijic area that " fly under the radar" with an Internet business. Very few people are aware that they do so.
> I tried to start a business (different from yours) in 2005 in Chapala and was told by the Mayor's representative that basically I could do anything in Mexico that I wanted to do (he meant if I was willing to pay a "little" cooperation). To get my permit from their office, he wanted 3/4 of what I figured I could make a day (every day). I changed my mind and sold my investment. It didn't bother him at all. (as Gary says: rules and Mexican Way). You have a LOT to learn about doing business in Mexico, as corruption is rampant. IMHO. There was a LOT of excellent information in the documentary you saw on the tv.
> 
> I am not sure what "machines" you need to bring, but if they feel it has to do with a business, you can be at their mercy.
> 
> I still believe that Chapala is your best starting point, but YOU must make your own decision, as we do not walk in your shoes. A trip to Lakeside and some time there will be very valuable for you and your family, IMHO.


I am having a hard time accepting that any/most/some? businesses that apply for a permit in Chapala are at the mercy of the Mayor. Just so I understand it you said they wanted 300 peso's per day or 24 US per day x 5 days per week x 4 = $720 US per month and didn't care to ask what you thought you could make per day. This is nothing short of dealing with mob and paying protection money. except there's no protection! 


This happened to you in 2005, do you think this still goes on todays?

Is there anyone else out there with a similar experience? I like to hear from you


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## citlali

If Chapala is too cool I would not think Mexico City would be any warmer..on the contrary.


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## dwwhiteside

Well, let me see if I have my facts correct here. You want to relocate your family and your business to someplace where you can manufacture and sell products, generate income of $150K annually and "fly under the radar" when it comes to paying taxes? But now Mexico is out because of the corruption?


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## Isla Verde

dwwhiteside said:


> Well, let me see if I have my facts correct here. You want to relocate your family and your business to someplace where you can manufacture and sell products, generate income of $150K annually and "fly under the radar" when it comes to paying taxes? But now Mexico is out because of the corruption?


Bingo!


----------



## coondawg

cfaulds said:


> I hear good things about a lawyer named SPENCER McMULLEN in town. Have you heard anything otherwise ? I mean Gary makes it seem like I have to hire F LEE Bailey to not get screwed over. I loosing hope for Mexico real fast.


We believe in Spencer and have used him and believe him to be straight forward. We have also asked many questions of him and he has always found out the correct answer. But, he is in Chapala, and you can only use him there, as each state has somewhat different laws, and rules. It can make a difference with other Mexican lawyers, if you are Mexican and know the rules to the game. As I stated before, Mexicans do not care if you come or go, their lives will continue on the same paths with, or without you. 

I still believe a trip to Chapala, and a talk with Spencer would serve you well.

Remember, it is very important that you LEARN PATIENCE and LEARN NOT TO CRITICIZE, just accept things the way they are in Mexico. You will never be able to change anything. That is hard/impossible for many extranjeros, and thus they are not happy in Mexico, and many leave. Others learn these "survival skills" and live a good life in Mexico.

Bottom line, it's your decision. Good luck.


----------



## cfaulds

dwwhiteside said:


> Well, let me see if I have my facts correct here. You want to relocate your family and your business to someplace where you can manufacture and sell products, generate income of $150K annually and "fly under the radar" when it comes to paying taxes? But now Mexico is out because of the corruption?


Not that I said I wanted to fly under the radar but it was said that many do. Can you blame them when local officials want 300pesos a day regardless of what one is earning. The one gentleman who this happened to had to sell his investment because it would have been a 25/75% split with local officials. 
If you don't give business owners a fair shake they will ultimately do what they have to do to survive. Can you blame them?


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## RVGRINGO

You mentioned a need to ship your product. You will need an export license in addition to all of the other business requirements for permits, licenses and the ubiquitous ‘mordida‘; maybe not just to the mayor, but to local ‘sindicados‘ as well. It sure is not Kansas and you will have no familial/clan/party connections at all. 
On the other hand, who knows?


----------



## cfaulds

Why do they make it so hard?


----------



## RVGRINGO

It is just the way it is. Asi es la vida. Mexico is a different culture and very resistant to change. Opportunism seems to rule and rules depend upon the authority in front of you at the moment. To argue a point is self-defeating and may even be punished.
It is a different, wonderful, beautiful world full of friendly and very helpful people. The climate at Chapala is fantastic and the food is superb. Living there can be relaxed and fulfilling in so many ways. Doing business there, as a foreigner, can be......¿quien sabe?....se depende....... Who you know is important and face to face business is almost imperative.


----------



## coondawg

RVGRINGO said:


> You mentioned a need to ship your product. You will need an export license in addition to all of the other business requirements for permits, licenses and the ubiquitous ‘mordida‘; maybe not just to the mayor, but to local ‘sindicados‘ as well. It sure is not Kansas and you will have no familial/clan/party connections at all.
> On the other hand, who knows?


This is why a trip and talk with Spencer will serve you. Also, you will find a really neat area of Mexico with a very nice climate and easy to get around with all the English speakers. Google Spencer McMullen Mexico and you can ask him some questions by his email.


----------



## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Why do they make it so hard?


Is this a real question?
I'm sorry, how old are you?


----------



## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Not that I said I wanted to fly under the radar but it was said that many do. Can you blame them when local officials want 300pesos a day regardless of what one is earning. The one gentleman who this happened to had to sell his investment because it would have been a 25/75% split with local officials.
> If you don't give business owners a fair shake they will ultimately do what they have to do to survive. Can you blame them?


Going "under the radar" is illegal, period.
Paying off to "officials" is idiotic, I run a successful business in Mexico and pay nobody off, NOR MORDIDAS NOR ANYTHING


If someone closes down his business or pays someone, that someone does not have a back bone and is an idiot 
Lately, cartels have been demanding extortion money in exchange for "protection"
Would understand if someone closes operations and leave.


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## GARYJ65

Poster already said Mexico was out of the question, he does not understand how is it that people make business here.
Why do you keep considering he is going to Chapala and have a wonderful life there?

One more question about the Chapala lawyer, I take that he speaks great English, and that might be a plus for foreigners, but, is he really capable of giving directions on how to open a business in Mexico? has he done it before? If so, at what rate of success?


----------



## coondawg

GARYJ65 said:


> Poster already said Mexico was out of the question, he does not understand how is it that people make business here.
> Why do you keep considering he is going to Chapala and have a wonderful life there?
> 
> One more question about the Chapala lawyer, I take that he speaks great English, and that might be a plus for foreigners, but, is he really capable of giving directions on how to open a business in Mexico? has he done it before? If so, at what rate of success?


Great English, fluent Spanish. Mexican wife. Has an office in Chapala and one in Guadalajara, both staffed by young, Mexican lawyers who also speak English. Seems to really be on top of things and interested in consumer protection. Haven't heard any complaints about him from any extranjeros who have used him (many at Lakeside that didn't, wished they had.) Certainly not the most expensive, really nice guy, and does good business. RV, anything to add?


----------



## RVGRINGO

You covered it well. Spencer is a good guy, friendly and competent. We have used his services and continue to recommend him to others as very trustworthy and efficient.


----------



## Longford

cfaulds said:


> Why do they make it so hard?


I get the feeling you don't understand that Mexico is indeed an independent, sovereign nation with its own laws, regulations, language and customs which are very different than what you may be familiar with in Canada or the United States. The answer to your "Why..." question is ... _because_, and if you don't move past such questions I doubt if you can _make it_ (be happy/successful) in Mexico.

After going back and reading all of the comments posted thus far, I'm now wondering if you've been pulling our leg. On a matter as serious (to you) as this one is, it seems to me that you're reluctant to seek the professional advice which will elicit responses you can rely upon. Everyone here will be well-meaning, but we hardly qualify as persons upon whose advice you should gamble your (or I would gamble my) financial future. 

Also, too, it seems to me you are overly influenced by whatever the most recent article you've read about Mexico says. For example, your comment about air pollution in San Miguel de Allende and the city being 3 hours away from an international airport ... are comments IMO I don't think are based on fact. 

Instead of the reason to consider a move to Mexico being your _only_ option for the continuation of your business (something I'm recalling you told us in your opening comments in this discussion), it might be better for you, from a mind-set standpoint, if Mexico was your first, _preferred_ choice. Such a transition as you say you want to make isn't likely to be an easy one. On one hand you have the family unit transitional anxiety and integration into Mexico (cultural and language differences being the primary two, IMO), and on the other hand there's the new (in Mexico) business formation and operational challenges with which you have no prior experience.

By the way, if marketing your product to the cruise line passengers constitutes a significant part of your sales (which I'm recalling you told us earlier), then why not consider being close to that market in Mexico ... which is Cozumel (the 7th busiest cruise ship port in the world).

You're going to have to develop a relocation preference list which meets your needs/wants ... and not those of people who respond to your questions. Doing that is going to require a lot of independent research on your part ... and the information is available both at a good public library in the USA and on the www. And you're going to have to travel to a short-list of possible relocation spots and also buy some time with a few professionals to ask questions which are important to you, your family and your business. Others aren't going to be able to provide the answers which are most meaningful to you.


----------



## GARYJ65

coondawg said:


> Great English, fluent Spanish. Mexican wife. Has an office in Chapala and one in Guadalajara, both staffed by young, Mexican lawyers who also speak English. Seems to really be on top of things and interested in consumer protection. Haven't heard any complaints about him from any extranjeros who have used him (many at Lakeside that didn't, wished they had.) Certainly not the most expensive, really nice guy, and does good business. RV, anything to add?


All that sounds great, the matter about the wife and his personal affairs do not matter, 
What I was asking is about his professional history regarding foreigners opening business or bigger Foreign companies opening operations.
Other than Chapala, he is not well known


----------



## Longford

GARYJ65 said:


> All that sounds great, the matter about the wife and his personal affairs do not matter,
> What I was asking is about his professional history regarding foreigners opening business or bigger Foreign companies opening operations.
> Other than Chapala, he is not well known


There are many attorneys/accountants/consultants one can retain or seek advice from. Some offer more depth of experience than others ... depending upon the area about which advice is being sought. 

Notario Publicos are oftentimes the attorneys who handle (though not exclusively) corporate formations (as well as real estate transactions). Other than a simple and small business in Mexico, I think it's the norm for persons to have a Notario Publico recommend the specific form of business corporation after which, or in tandem then recommend an accountant to handle the tax regulation documents/registrations. The accountant can then also set up the bookkeeping, tax filing documents and assist with compliance with labor regulations. An attorney experienced in immigration matters can assist with visa issues, if a newby thinks having that type of advice is appropriate. 

If it were me starting/moving a business in/to Mexico I'd want one person, a Notario Publico, to coordinate all of these activities for me. 

The biggest expense is in the first year, getting things established. I've always thought, and I've learned, personally, that establishing a good foundation, getting off on the right "foot" is important to future success ... almost always. Some continuing tasks can be handled personally in succeeding years. 

Compliance with the tax/employment regulations is an area particularly important and which, IMO, a business owner ... particularly an expat operating a business in/from Mexico ... should pay close attention to and have the continuing assistance of a good accountant or risk substantial fines which could put someone out of business (depending upon the temperament of the Mexican government supervisor/employee reviewing things). 

What I know of Spencer McMullen in Guadalajara/Chapala is that he's considered a good immigration and general all-around attorney. If I were moving to that community I'd probably seek his advice as many expats and Mexicans seemingly have. It's important for the client/advisor to establish a comfort/trust relationship and just because an advisor is good doesn't mean he's good for you, for me. In the horse racing business we had a phrase, there are "horses for courses."


----------



## GARYJ65

If it were me starting/moving a business in/to Mexico I'd want one person, a Notario Publico, to coordinate all of these activities for me. 

To form a Company, or register one, you would need a Notario, to handle your legal affairs, obviously you need an lawyer or even a firm. Get the best one you can afford.
A Mickey Mouse lawyer would not do the trick.


What I know of Spencer McMullen in Guadalajara/Chapala is that he's considered a good immigration and general all-around attorney. If I were moving to that community I'd probably seek his advice as many expats and Mexicans seemingly have. It's important for the client/advisor to establish a comfort/trust relationship and just because an advisor is good doesn't mean he's good for you, for me. In the horse racing business we had a phrase, there are "horses for courses."[/QUOTE]


----------



## coondawg

GARYJ65 said:


> All that sounds great, the matter about the wife and his personal affairs do not matter,


I am just going to disagree on this point, Gary. The Mexican wife opens many more doors to him, more contacts, and most importantly, helps an extranjero become familiar with the "Rules and Mexican Way". Had it not been for my Mexican wife, I may have been dead by now, or been the victim of a heart attack, because of my lack of patience and frustration trying to "understand" the Mexican reason behind why things are done the way they are done in Mexico.


----------



## Meritorious-MasoMenos

I MEANT TO REPLY TO THIS GARYJ65 QUOTE: "Going "under the radar" is illegal, period.
Paying off to "officials" is idiotic, I run a successful business in Mexico and pay nobody off, NOR MORDIDAS NOR ANYTHING."

This is pretty naive. I had a friend who was a techie who I worked with in the 1980s in Mexico City. His family had been running a successful chain of restaurants on the Pacific coast for a few generations, but his interest in computers brought him to a U.S. company, and eventually U.S. residency. But after 25 years, he had enough and returned to his roots, taking over ownership of a restaurant in Colima. Pretty soon, thugs from a drug gang came demanding weekly payoffs. He laughed at them. This was 2007. "This is ridiculous," he told his friends, "Not in the 21st century, no." I'm pretty sure his time in the U.S. rubbed off on him. Gunmen eventually came in and shot him down like a dog.

I started and ran a retail business in Mexico City with my Mexican wife in the 1980s. It wasn't illegal. It wasn't legal, either, at the time, being a new tech-type biz. The Mex gov't hadn't gotten around to making a decision. It pulled in pretty good money, with eventually two locations and it was much simpler to pay off representatives of the delegación rather than go to the extreme hassle of trying to legalize it.

Now, if you say paying bribes are no longer necessary, that's great. I think it depends on the kind of business you're in. I haven't seen any recent statistics of how many Mexicans operate in the legal, regulated economy and how many in what used to be called the underground economy. It used to be at least 60% in the underground, and it was here that bribes just had to be paid. If this has changed dramatically, to where a much smaller percentage of working age Mexicans operate in it, that's great. If it hasn't changed much, well, welcome to Mexico. Mexicans fortunate to be educated and born to middle and upper class families that are firmly in the above ground economy wouldn't know of the world of bribes and constant police harassment.

Mexicans I know now still complain that the police are more a threat than someone they can turn to if they're a victim of crime. Upper class Mexicans are usually treated with respect by police and just wouldn't know of this other world in which the majority of Mexicans live.


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## coondawg

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Upper class Mexicans are usually treated with respect by police and just wouldn't know of this other world in which the majority of Mexicans live.


I don't think tourists, nor extranjeros who come to just retire and enjoy the laid back life that can be Mexico, have any idea of that other world that many Mexicans live in ( nor do they want to know about it).


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## GARYJ65

coondawg said:


> I am just going to disagree on this point, Gary. The Mexican wife opens many more doors to him, more contacts, and most importantly, helps an extranjero become familiar with the "Rules and Mexican Way". Had it not been for my Mexican wife, I may have been dead by now, or been the victim of a heart attack, because of my lack of patience and frustration trying to "understand" the Mexican reason behind why things are done the way they are done in Mexico.


I understand your comment, but the subject here was if it is important that my lawyer, in Mexico, to have a Mexican wife, nah


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## GARYJ65

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> I MEANT TO REPLY TO THIS GARYJ65 QUOTE: "Going "under the radar" is illegal, period. Paying off to "officials" is idiotic, I run a successful business in Mexico and pay nobody off, NOR MORDIDAS NOR ANYTHING." This is pretty naive. I had a friend who was a techie who I worked with in the 1980s in Mexico City. His family had been running a successful chain of restaurants on the Pacific coast for a few generations, but his interest in computers brought him to a U.S. company, and eventually U.S. residency. But after 25 years, he had enough and returned to his roots, taking over ownership of a restaurant in Colima. Pretty soon, thugs from a drug gang came demanding weekly payoffs. He laughed at them. This was 2007. "This is ridiculous," he told his friends, "Not in the 21st century, no." I'm pretty sure his time in the U.S. rubbed off on him. Gunmen eventually came in and shot him down like a dog. I started and ran a retail business in Mexico City with my Mexican wife in the 1980s. It wasn't illegal. It wasn't legal, either, at the time, being a new tech-type biz. The Mex gov't hadn't gotten around to making a decision. It pulled in pretty good money, with eventually two locations and it was much simpler to pay off representatives of the delegación rather than go to the extreme hassle of trying to legalize it. Now, if you say paying bribes are no longer necessary, that's great. I think it depends on the kind of business you're in. I haven't seen any recent statistics of how many Mexicans operate in the legal, regulated economy and how many in what used to be called the underground economy. It used to be at least 60% in the underground, and it was here that bribes just had to be paid. If this has changed dramatically, to where a much smaller percentage of working age Mexicans operate in it, that's great. If it hasn't changed much, well, welcome to Mexico. Mexicans fortunate to be educated and born to middle and upper class families that are firmly in the above ground economy wouldn't know of the world of bribes and constant police harassment. Mexicans I know now still complain that the police are more a threat than someone they can turn to if they're a victim of crime. Upper class Mexicans are usually treated with respect by police and just wouldn't know of this other world in which the majority of Mexicans live.


What did I wrote in my post? At the end I said gang people demanding money for protection, that's a whole different story.
Bribes, many many many people pay them, many many many don't, You have to decide which way you want to go
As far as those statistics, they are a joke. How can anyone make the polls? Are you working underground? Yes or no? 
I know what goes on in my Country, I have been " asked" for bribes, I've been mugged, kidnapped, received calls for extortion. Just said no to all and go on.


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I know what goes on in my Country, I have been " asked" for bribes, I've been mugged, kidnapped, received calls for extortion. Just said no to all and go on.


I would say you've been very lucky that nothing worse has happened to you over the years. Cuídate mucho, Gary.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> I would say you've been very lucky that nothing worse has happened to you over the years. Cuídate mucho, Gary.


Thanks for your thoughts
And I do take care of myself, but sometimes things just happen, everywhere, not only in Mexico
Life has risks, ni modo


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts
> And I do take care of myself, but sometimes things just happen, everywhere, not only in Mexico
> Life has risks, ni modo


And we can't spend our life hiding somewhere safe, worrying about what horrible thing could happen, can we?


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> And we can't spend our life hiding somewhere safe, worrying about what horrible thing could happen, can we?


 many people try
I don't
I don't do extreme sports either


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## cfaulds

Hi Gary
This poor guy didn't have the opportunity to say no!

In the neighboring town of Ajijic, where foreigners have been settling for decades, 69-year-old American Chris Kahr was unloading groceries from his car when a thief jumped him from behind, fired a single bullet into his chest and fled. The November (2012) murder was the third last year to strike an American from the communities along Lake Chapala in Jalisco state.


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## cfaulds

or how bout this one:

CHAPALA, MEXICO - Mexico's violence came crashing into the retirement dream of Houston's Lorraine Kulig and hundreds of other Americans last fall when gangsters shot it out and set off a bomb in this usually bucolic town on the shore of the nation's largest lake


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## Isla Verde

On the other hand, I've lived in Mexico City for over seven years and have never had anything bad happen to me, except for the time I fell out of bed in the middle of the night while chasing an errant cucaracha and broke my wrist!


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## cfaulds

Isla Verde said:


> On the other hand, I've lived in Mexico City for over seven years and have never had anything bad happen to me, except for the time I fell out of bed in the middle of the night while chasing an errant cucaracha and broke my wrist!


Generally, you have to leave your house to encounter any danger.and judging by the amount of threads you reply to. I figure you don't get out much. LOL


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Hi Gary
> This poor guy didn't have the opportunity to say no!
> 
> In the neighboring town of Ajijic, where foreigners have been settling for decades, 69-year-old American Chris Kahr was unloading groceries from his car when a thief jumped him from behind, fired a single bullet into his chest and fled. The November (2012) murder was the third last year to strike an American from the communities along Lake Chapala in Jalisco state.


I'm sorry, i did not understand
A man was killed, I feel sorry for his family, then what?
That happens everywhere
Do we want to count how many Americans get killed in Mexico?
How many Mexicans in the US?


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> or how bout this one:
> 
> CHAPALA, MEXICO - Mexico's violence came crashing into the retirement dream of Houston's Lorraine Kulig and hundreds of other Americans last fall when gangsters shot it out and set off a bomb in this usually bucolic town on the shore of the nation's largest lake


Once again, then what?

Crime happens...Everywhere

Because they were Americans, Canadians, any type of foreigners, should they be more protected?
Don't think so
When I travel abroad, I have the very same risk as the locals


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## cfaulds

GARYJ65 said:


> Once again, then what?
> 
> Crime happens...Everywhere
> 
> Because they were Americans, Canadians, any type of foreigners, should they be more protected?
> Don't think so
> When I travel abroad, I have the very same risk as the locals


Gary,

I guess i'm Just disappointed because I thought (wrongly) that Chapala would be some what of a safe haven, relative to many other parts of Mexico. Being gunned down for no reason seems a little outside of "tolerable risk" IMO


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## TundraGreen

cfaulds said:


> Gary,
> 
> I guess i'm Just disappointed because I thought (wrongly) that Chapala would be some what of a safe haven, relative to many other parts of Mexico. Being gunned down for no reason seems a little outside of "tolerable risk" IMO


I don't have any statistics to back me up, but my impression is that, relative to the size of the population, more bad stuff happens down near the lake than here in Guadalajara. It seems like I hear about one or two episodes of cartel violence a year in both areas, but there are maybe 250 times as many people in Guadalajara as there are near Lake Chapala.


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## Isla Verde

cfaulds said:


> Generally, you have to leave your house to encounter any danger.and judging by the amount of threads you reply to. I figure you don't get out much. LOL


Very funny, though not really. I get out quite a bit, but since I am retired D ), I don't have to go to work every day. I do "work" online for the Expat Forum as a volunteer moderator, which is why I answer lots of threads. I relayed my anecdote about my enounter with the cucaracha as an ironic comment on how safe I feel living in Mexico City, so safe that all I have to fear is attacks from angry insects.


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## cfaulds

Longford said:


> I get the feeling you don't understand that Mexico is indeed an independent, sovereign nation with its own laws, regulations, language and customs which are very different than what you may be familiar with in Canada or the United States. The answer to your "Why..." question is ... _because_, and if you don't move past such questions I doubt if you can _make it_ (be happy/successful) in Mexico.
> 
> After going back and reading all of the comments posted thus far, I'm now wondering if you've been pulling our leg. On a matter as serious (to you) as this one is, it seems to me that you're reluctant to seek the professional advice which will elicit responses you can rely upon. Everyone here will be well-meaning, but we hardly qualify as persons upon whose advice you should gamble your (or I would gamble my) financial future.
> 
> Also, too, it seems to me you are overly influenced by whatever the most recent article you've read about Mexico says. For example, your comment about air pollution in San Miguel de Allende and the city being 3 hours away from an international airport ... are comments IMO I don't think are based on fact.
> 
> Instead of the reason to consider a move to Mexico being your _only_ option for the continuation of your business (something I'm recalling you told us in your opening comments in this discussion), it might be better for you, from a mind-set standpoint, if Mexico was your first, _preferred_ choice. Such a transition as you say you want to make isn't likely to be an easy one. On one hand you have the family unit transitional anxiety and integration into Mexico (cultural and language differences being the primary two, IMO), and on the other hand there's the new (in Mexico) business formation and operational challenges with which you have no prior experience.
> 
> By the way, if marketing your product to the cruise line passengers constitutes a significant part of your sales (which I'm recalling you told us earlier), then why not consider being close to that market in Mexico ... which is Cozumel (the 7th busiest cruise ship port in the world).
> 
> You're going to have to develop a relocation preference list which meets your needs/wants ... and not those of people who respond to your questions. Doing that is going to require a lot of independent research on your part ... and the information is available both at a good public library in the USA and on the www. And you're going to have to travel to a short-list of possible relocation spots and also buy some time with a few professionals to ask questions which are important to you, your family and your business. Others aren't going to be able to provide the answers which are most meaningful to you.


I truly applaud you for going back and reading all of my post (some i regret).

The issue of Mexico being a independent, sovereign nation with its own laws, regulations, language and customs I fully understand but don't think it's the issue here as most countries are.
As to your comment about me being serious and not seeking legal advice first. I think unfair. Anyone in there right mind would start off by asking locals (expats) their opinion of each topic of concern, a barometer so to speak. Its logical that this be the first and most cost effective step in getting a feel for Mexico, otherwise why bother having these blogs at all. Not to mention, you yourself wouldn't waste your time if you felt it was all for nothing.

Am I truly influenced by peoples opinion? If you knew me you would know its the opposite. I take everything people with a grain of salt. But do like pushing people for answers/opinions.

Cozumel. Yes lots of cruise ship traffic.......but if you read my posts you would now that I don't need this type of business to make a living but it would be something I could entertain in the future.

"You're going to have to develop a relocation preference list which meets your needs/wants ... and not those of people who respond to your questions. Doing that is going to require a lot of independent research on your part ... and the information is available both at a good public library in the USA and on the www. And you're going to have to travel to a short-list of possible relocation spots and also buy some time with a few professionals to ask questions which are important to you, your family and your business. Others aren't going to be able to provide the answers which are most meaningful to you."
This I agree completely. It is sound advice, once I get to the point of being very serious about moving to Mexico. If you read my posts you would pick up on the underlying tones, Safety! I could care less about myself and am willing to take all risks associated with moving to Mexico but and its a big but. I have a 6 year and wife I have to protect and provide for.That being said I am sensitive when the topic of violence in the streets so to speak comes up.

Anyway, having said all that I do very much respect you and your posts. They come from the mind of an educated man with great insight and business experience. Everyone on this site should be grateful you take the time to reply to their questions

Thank you!


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## GARYJ65

cfaulds said:


> Gary,
> 
> I guess i'm Just disappointed because I thought (wrongly) that Chapala would be some what of a safe haven, relative to many other parts of Mexico. Being gunned down for no reason seems a little outside of "tolerable risk" IMO


You will have a very hard time looking for a safe heaven on this planet


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## GARYJ65

If you, and your family like the idea of living in Mexico, you will come and taste it
If you google for bad news, and good news, and pollen count, and how many drops of rain fall each year, and if every tiny piece of fruits and water and air are polluted, and if your pets would glow in the dark if they drink Mexican water, you better stay where you are. 
At least you will not spend any money on the move


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## RVGRINGO

As for personal safety: One should note that the expat females around Lake Chapala greatly outnumber the expat males. Is it the water? 
Expat children are present and visible, fluently bilingual at early ages, making their elders jealous, and they fit right in with local children, of necessity, since geriatric mothers of youngsters are very rare. Sterility abounds. The same may or may not be true of the expat geriatric males.


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