# Question on IVA



## trendytots (Aug 21, 2009)

Are there any members, registered for VAT in Spain, that purchase goods from the UK that would be willing to explain the accounting of these purchases on the Spanish VAT return.

My accountant has told me that I need to pay VAT at 22% but that I cannot reclaim anything.

As the payment date is fast approaching an early reply would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks:juggle:


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2011)

The only way you can reclaim VAT from outside Spain is by registering on the European Traders List, my accountant did this for free as it isn't much more additional work per quarter - however they did warn that registering on this list "may" provoke a tax investigation/look over your records but that's unlikely. By doing this the company you buy from does not charge you VAT so you have nothing to claim back

Unfortunately it would be too late for this return

*also, a small point, unlike in the UK as a business/sole trader you can't not be registered for VAT in Spain


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## trendytots (Aug 21, 2009)

ShinyAndy said:


> The only way you can reclaim VAT from outside Spain is by registering on the European Traders List, my accountant did this for free as it isn't much more additional work per quarter - however they did warn that registering on this list "may" provoke a tax investigation/look over your records but that's unlikely. By doing this the company you buy from does not charge you VAT so you have nothing to claim back
> 
> Unfortunately it would be too late for this return
> 
> *also, a small point, unlike in the UK as a business/sole trader you can't not be registered for VAT in Spain


Hi

I am registered on the European Traders List and don't pay VAT on my purchases in England. I just can't get my head around the fact that my accountant says that I have to pay over VAT of 22%, on my UK purchases, as part of my VAT return here in Spain and can't claim anything back. It seems against the spirit of the European Trade as I am being penalised for buying in other Member States.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2011)

So you haven't been charged VAT on a purchase from the UK (assume the invoice shows no VAT) but you are still trying to claim the VAT back or your accountant is adding VAT back on? Where is he getting the 22% from as well?


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## trendytots (Aug 21, 2009)

ShinyAndy said:


> So you haven't been charged VAT on a purchase from the UK (assume the invoice shows no VAT) but you are still trying to claim the VAT back or your accountant is adding VAT back on? Where is he getting the 22% from as well?


This is where I am totally confused. I have spoken to other expats and they say that you have to pay an additional 4% on EU purchases, which in my mind is a penalty for purchasing outside of Spain. i.e Pay over at 22% and reclaim at 18%. I could learn to live with the 4% but if I have to pay 22% I would have to increase all of my prices.:eyebrows:


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm even more confused! I've never tried to claim back VAT from the UK as until recently I've just paid it and marked up accordingly due to not being on the EU VAT registry but I assume as you are on this list that the UK company is not charging you VAT, hence I don't understand what you are trying to reclaim as there wasn't any VAT in the first place?

I would suggest talking to another accountant perhaps, EU trading laws seem incredibly complicated but I have never heard anything along the lines of the things you are talking about


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

You've bought from the UK , Vat free. So there's nothing to reclaim. You sell in spain & add 18% to your selling price which is what you've got to hand over to the taxman . I can't see where the additional 4% comes from & would have thought it was illegal under EC law.


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## trendytots (Aug 21, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> You've bought from the UK , Vat free. So there's nothing to reclaim. You sell in spain & add 18% to your selling price which is what you've got to hand over to the taxman . I can't see where the additional 4% comes from & would have thought it was illegal under EC law.


That is exactly what I think. I am hoping to find someone who trades in a similar manner to see how they account for it on their returns. I know that in the UK you just make a double entry so that it is recorded but nothing is charged. I had assumed that it would be the same in Spain...............

:confused2:


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## yoda (Apr 19, 2011)

I am a sole trader in Spain have a Vat number and I am also being charged 22% on goods I import from other EU copuntries. Can anyone explain why.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

As someone else has said, if you are on the EU traders list then the company in the UK should not charge you VAT. I did hear another story of someone paying the extra percentage here, but as said, get your accountant to put you on that list then you can buy VAT free from the UK and sell to other EU countries without adding VAT also.


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## yoda (Apr 19, 2011)

steve_in_spain said:


> As someone else has said, if you are on the EU traders list then the company in the UK should not charge you VAT. I did hear another story of someone paying the extra percentage here, but as said, get your accountant to put you on that list then you can buy VAT free from the UK and sell to other EU countries without adding VAT also.


I am on the traders list and foreign companyies that I trade with can check my number. The UK, and Dutch traders that I buy from do not charge me VAT as I have a VAT number.
My accountant has reminded me again today prior to my tax bill being paid tomorrow that I have to pay 22% Iva on all goods I ship into Spain from any other EU country. Not only do I have to pay the 18% but I have to pay an extra 4% for any items I buy for my shop from any other EU country.
I could understand if I was shipping from China or USA as I would pay customs charges to the courier i.e. UPS and items would be held at customs until I paid the relevant levys. This an additional tax for shipping from other EU countries.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

yoda said:


> I am on the traders list and foreign companyies that I trade with can check my number. The UK, and Dutch traders that I buy from do not charge me VAT as I have a VAT number.
> My accountant has reminded me again today prior to my tax bill being paid tomorrow that I have to pay 22% Iva on all goods I ship into Spain from any other EU country. Not only do I have to pay the 18% but I have to pay an extra 4% for any items I buy for my shop from any other EU country.
> I could understand if I was shipping from China or USA as I would pay customs charges to the courier i.e. UPS and items would be held at customs until I paid the relevant levys. This an additional tax for shipping from other EU countries.


Yeah i am gonna do some research on this, a client of mine who imports clothes has this issue too but Im a little bit in the dark on it... I use UK companies for things such as web hosting, telecoms etc and pay VAT FREE... maybe its about goods rather than services...confused! I shall speak with people in the know next week!


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## trendytots (Aug 21, 2009)

I have finally got the bottom of it. I am registered as a small retailer. If I buy goods from the EU I pay Vat at 22%. However I do not have to pay over the vat on my sales although I raise a vat invoice to my customers at 18%. I assume that the 4% covers the markup on my sales.
If the markup on your goods is over 40% you actually make a bigger profit. The only hangup that I have is that I have to pay the vat before I have actually sold the goods.


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## Malagueño (Apr 18, 2011)

There is a direct contradiction here.

ShinyAndy says "_as a business/sole trader you can't not be registered for VAT in Spain_".

But then, yoda says "_I am a sole trader in Spain have a Vat number and _....."

I am assuming that when ShinyAndy and yoda say *VAT*, that they BOTH mean *IVA*.

Also, I assume that if yoda - as a sole trader - has a VAT (IVA?) number, then he is registered for VAT/IVA in Spain.

Which would then contadict ShinyAndy's assertion that as a sole trader, you cannot be registered for VAT/IVA.

Can anybody clarify the truth of the matter? (Please be clear whether we are speaking VAT or IVA in any reply......too much room for confusion otherwise!)


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Malagueño said:


> There is a direct contradiction here.
> 
> ShinyAndy says "_as a business/sole trader you can't not be registered for VAT in Spain_".
> 
> ...


In the UK Vat registration is optional until you reach a certain threshold. In Spain it is different. All businesses (with a few exeptions) have to register for IVA (VAT). Your IVA number is your NIE number (for international purposes prefixed with ES). When I registered autonomo I was not given any choice in the matter... I must collect IVA from my clients. You certainly CAN and in most cases MUST register for IVA when trading in Spain.

I hope this clarifies!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

ShinyAndy said:


> I'm even more confused! I've never tried to claim back VAT from the UK as until recently I've just paid it and marked up accordingly due to not being on the EU VAT registry but I assume as you are on this list that the UK company is not charging you VAT, hence I don't understand what you are trying to reclaim as there wasn't any VAT in the first place?
> 
> I would suggest talking to another accountant perhaps, EU trading laws seem incredibly complicated but I have never heard anything along the lines of the things you are talking about


To add even more consufion... if you are charged VAT from a supplier in the UK then you cannot reclaim this in Spain. You should speak with all businesses you deal with in the UK and ask them to supply VAT free . They can check your VAT registration here EUROPA site - Validation by putting in your VAT/NIE number and theirs.

I recently slipped up and forgot to tell a UK supplier to supply VAT free. I was unable to claim the VAT back however I was able to put the full gross total of their invoice through for income tax purposes, including the VAT. I guess I could have gone back to them and asked them to credit the original invoice and re-do but it was a small amount so not worth the hassle.

If a UK company buys or sells from outside of the UK they have to fill in extra fields on their VAT return... A Uk VAT reg company buying from Spain needs to pay the VAT at UK rates (but on the same form can reclaim it so its alittle loco). When I had a UK business we advertised a lot on google and they are based in Ireland so I have first hand experience of this practice. In Spain, there is more paperwork too if you buy from outside of Spain but your accoutnant should handle all of this for you.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

Malagueño said:


> Which would then contadict ShinyAndy's assertion that as a sole trader, you cannot be registered for VAT/IVA.


I didn't say that, I said that you cannot NOT be registered, ie there is no option like in the UK - you have to charge VAT (apart from a few exceptions)

VAT is just the English translation of IVA, as we are speaking English it would mean more to people than IVA


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## Malagueño (Apr 18, 2011)

*Clarification.....*



ShinyAndy said:


> I didn't say that, I said that you cannot NOT be registered, ie there is no option like in the UK - you have to charge VAT (apart from a few exceptions)
> 
> VAT is just the English translation of IVA, as we are speaking English it would mean more to people than IVA


Yes.......I only reconised the double negative after I posted....sorry!

The only reason I wanted to be absolutely sure that we were talking of IVA specifically is that somebody was talking about trade with the UK. Therefore, there was the possibility that they were speaking of actual VAT rather than IVA.

I just wanted to be sure I was following the thread with the correct undersanding of terms.

No worries.....all is clear now!


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