# Girlfriend refused Visa :( What can we do?



## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hello all,

Hope someone can help. Basically I met a woman online a while ago and for many months now we have been talking on the phone emails etc everday. I am British living in the UK and she is Albanian and living there. 

Well I am disabled and can not travel so she is ok with that she will have to do the travelling. Well we are certain we are right for eachother and it really is genuine love and she has applied for a tourist visa to also come and meet me for the first time in person as to apply for a fiancée visa you have to have met in person atleast once. Well she has been been refused a tourist visa at the British Embassy in Albania, she was also going to travel with her sister and she was also refused. 

We just don't know what we can do now. We feel like our one chance of true love will just never happen now


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Can someone help somewhere?? somehow? Please???


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hope someone can help. Basically I met a woman online a while ago and for many months now we have been talking on the phone emails etc everday. I am British living in the UK and she is Albanian and living there.
> 
> ...


The consulate must have told her in writing what the grounds are for refusing her visa. So can you find out what they have said?


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Yep it said she was refused as the letter say "you do not have strong social or economic ties to Albania to satisfy me that you intend to leave the uk". She submitted a Employment letter, social insurance book, bank certificate which had more than enough to pay for hotel flight etc, she had an employment letter that shows how much she makes and her monthly salary and permission to travel to the uk. 

I have a copy of the letter if you need to see it?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Yep it said she was refused as the letter say "you do not have strong social or economic ties to Albania to satisfy me that you intend to leave the uk". She submitted a Employment letter, social insurance book, bank certificate which had more than enough to pay for hotel flight etc, she had an employment letter that shows how much she makes and her monthly salary and permission to travel to the uk.
> 
> I have a copy of the letter if you need to see it?


No, I take your word for it.
So despite submitting all those pieces of evidence, she was still refused a visa? Perhaps they thought that on the balance of probabilities, she was more likely to stay on illegally in UK than return to her job in Albania. This is a real problem with those living in countries with much lower salary and standard of living than UK. Did she say she was going to visit her boyfriend in UK? Did you submit a letter of support, setting out how you are going to pay for her costs in UK (enclosing your bank statement) and emphasising that this is indeed a visit? Did she ask for a long stay, of several months, or just a few weeks? 


So if she wants to re-apply, I suggest she keeps her visit short - say no more than two weeks, and if she manages to get her visa, she is more likely to be approved for another visa in near future. This will build up positive travel history that will help with her settlement visa application when the time comes. And you submit a letter of support, making clear there is no way she is going to overstay but will be definitely returning as per her travel plan. Say that you are still at an early stage in your relationship and you have no plans for long-term future or serious commitment. You may think you are serious about each other, but they will say how come if you haven't even met? As for her ties to her home country, get another letter, on company stationery, allowing her leave of absence/holiday for preciely the number of days she will be away - no more than 2 weeks. Think of any other ties - such as family - that will bring her back to Albania. Never tell a lie or exaggerate or overstate the case, but be 100% honest. While this doesn't guarantee a visa, she will stand a better chance I think.

Also for similar reasons, it's best if she comes to UK on her own rather than with her sister.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there are many scams that have been worked in the past with women from "poorer" countries glomming onto someone in the UK or US or other richer country in order to get a visa. It's one of the main reasons that most countries require you to have met face to face before they will consider issuing a long-stay type visa (especially if she mentions "boyfriend" during the visa process).

I'm not saying that your girlfriend is working a scam on you, but that's what the visa people are going to assume, until and unless she can provide evidence to the contrary. (The same goes for her sister.)

Be very careful how you proceed with this.
Cheers,
Bev


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Joppa said:


> No, I take your word for it.
> So despite submitting all those pieces of evidence, she was still refused a visa? Perhaps they thought that on the balance of probabilities, she was more likely to stay on illegally in UK than return to her job in Albania. This is a real problem with those living in countries with much lower salary and standard of living than UK. Did she say she was going to visit her boyfriend in UK? Did you submit a letter of support, setting out how you are going to pay for her costs in UK (enclosing your bank statement) and emphasising that this is indeed a visit? Did she ask for a long stay, of several months, or just a few weeks?
> 
> 
> ...


So despite submitting all those pieces of evidence, she was still refused a visa? - Yep

Did she say she was going to visit her boyfriend in UK? - Nope

Did you submit a letter of support, setting out how you are going to pay for her costs in UK (enclosing your bank statement) and emphasising that this is indeed a visit? - Nope

Did she ask for a long stay, of several months, or just a few weeks? - Just the weekend, and just a tourist visit with her sister.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there are many scams that have been worked in the past with women from "poorer" countries glomming onto someone in the UK or US or other richer country in order to get a visa. It's one of the main reasons that most countries require you to have met face to face before they will consider issuing a long-stay type visa (especially if she mentions "boyfriend" during the visa process).
> 
> I'm not saying that your girlfriend is working a scam on you, but that's what the visa people are going to assume, until and unless she can provide evidence to the contrary. (The same goes for her sister.)
> 
> ...


Yes I am aware of this, but she is from a respectable family whos parents have good jobs. She has never asked for any money and when I have offered to pay for things etc she has always refused. We speak on the phone etc everyday and she seems very very sincere and genuine. Unless I am missing something is there any red flags that I should look for?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Yes I am aware of this, but she is from a respectable family whos parents have good jobs. She has never asked for any money and when I have offered to pay for things etc she has always refused. We speak on the phone etc everyday and she seems very very sincere and genuine. Unless I am missing something is there any red flags that I should look for?


Sometimes the consulate rejects the first application and see the reaction. If you were just 'trying on'. you might just give up. But if you are genuinely and truly in love, you will take on board what they have said and resubmit your application. 
Perhaps for a couple supposedly in love, a weekend visit was considered too short and unrealistic. I suggest you make it a little longer, a week or two perhaps.
A letter of support from you would go some way towards reassuring them they are dealing with a genuine case. Show them evidence of how you've kept in touch (e.g. sample of skype logs). Include an offer for her to stay at your place (whether she takes it up or not) and enclose your latest bank statement to show you can afford it. A letter from employer and a letter from her parents supporting her application. Perhaps from someone of standing in society, such as MP, solicitor, judge, doctor, priest.

As a last resort, if she is reluctant to try her luck again and get rejected, she can book an escorted trip to UK with a tour company, where a group visa will be applied for, and you arrange to meet up while she is over here.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks, so Skype records etc etc all for just the tourist Visa? Sadly she cant get more than a few days off work so she was applying for just 4 days.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Thanks, so Skype records etc etc all for just the tourist Visa? Sadly she cant get more than a few days off work so she was applying for just 4 days.


Yes, because after a failed application, you need to build a strong case for a genuine relationship and bona-fide reason for a visit.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to support the application of my girlfriend (her Name). I am a British Citizen and have provided proof of my passport with this letter. My relationship to (HER NAME) is a close one and has developed into a romantic one since we met on a Christian Website last year. I have asked her if she would be willing to meet in person as I feel this is very important and ask her if she would be willing to come to meet me here in my country and that I can also show her tourist attractions etc here. So I have asked her to apply for a Tourist Visa with me providing you with a letter of support. The purpose of her visit would be to meet me and to see tourist attractions here in my country such as the Angel of the North, Millennium Bridge, St James Park etc. She will be staying at (the name of the Hotel). I will be meeting her at Newcastle Airport when she arrives. 
There is absolutely no way she or I are planning on her overstaying or her not returning to Albania after her visit. She has a very good travel history and has always retuned when stipulated to Albanina after visits to places such as the United States and Germany. She has a lot of strong family ties in Albania and also financial ties with her employment in Albania. Please see the evidence from her employer and her family that support this. 
Thank you 
Yours sincerely


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

OK this is a draft copy of my letter of support for my girlfriends tourist visa. What do you think?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> OK this is a draft copy of my letter of support for my girlfriends tourist visa. What do you think?


Sounds good. A few spelling errors but you say it is a draft. Address the letter to 'Entry Clearance Officer'. 
Best of luck and God bless.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks so much! T hats very helpful. I was also wondering, we don't know whether for me to send my letter and my copy of the passport to the UK Embassy in Albania or to send it to her to include with her documents? What do you think?

Do you think a copy of my passport would be ok to prove I am British?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Thanks so much! T hats very helpful. I was also wondering, we don't know whether for me to send my letter and my copy of the passport to the UK Embassy in Albania or to send it to her to include with her documents? What do you think?


You must send your letter and documents to your girlfriend and then for her to include in her supporting documents and send off.



> Do you think a copy of my passport would be ok to prove I am British?


That will be fine.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

She has applied again but they refused her again as the last time she applied she said it was for toursit reasons which was true and it was also to meet me while she was here but it was not her primary reason as we were not really very serious at that time. SHe has applied again with my support letter etc etc and they refufsed her again saying that because she knew me last year they think that her previous reason to visit the UK on her last visa was not for tourist reasons but to visit me and now her second application for a tourist visa says "Any future application may also be automatically refused , for the same reason, uner paragraph 320 (7b) of the imigration rules untill 6/2/22 (10 years after the refusual of the application in which deception was used)".

Does this also mean that if my girlfriend and I got married she would be refused a entry clearnace visa? Or is this just in relation to any applications for tourist visas?

Can she also appeal against the ban too?

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> She has applied again but they refused her again as the last time she applied she said it was for toursit reasons which was true and it was also to meet me while she was here but it was not her primary reason as we were not really very serious at that time. SHe has applied again with my support letter etc etc and they refufsed her again saying that because she knew me last year they think that her previous reason to visit the UK on her last visa was not for tourist reasons but to visit me and now her second application for a tourist visa says "Any future application may also be automatically refused , for the same reason, uner paragraph 320 (7b) of the imigration rules untill 6/2/22 (10 years after the refusual of the application in which deception was used)".
> 
> Does this also mean that if my girlfriend and I got married she would be refused a entry clearnace visa? Or is this just in relation to any applications for tourist visas?


Her eventual settlement visa application will be different and not subject to the ban, but it will be more difficult, seeing that she cannot meet you in person in UK. You have to travel to Albania or meet her in a neutral country to build up your relationship and personal knowledge.



> Can she also appeal against the ban too?


Maybe, but probably not worth it, as you are unlikely to provide new evidence or there is little ground to suggest they haven't acted according to the rules.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks so much for that. Really appreciate it. 

The reason they have given her that 10 deceit ban is because when she first applied to come to the UK she didnt put down that she might meet me when she was coming here, but it wasn't definite that we were going to meet for certian and for her it was mainly for a tourist visit. So then the UK embassy when they saw her new application saw that this time she was coming to meet me and they thought that the previous application was "really" to come to see me not to visit the UK. It actually was to visit the UK and maybe meet me for a couple of hours but meeting me had not been set in stone at that time as we weren't as serious as we are now to we were then. 

So I am going to travel to France and spend time with her there now.

Also do you know 


1) What is a Legalized full brith birth certificate? I have an original Birth Certificate already from my country the UK?

2) What is a Legalized Cer of no impediment or CNI? I have a decree absolute from my divorce, is this the same thing? 

3) Is a CNT different from a decree absolute?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Thanks so much for that. Really appreciate it.
> 
> The reason they have given her that 10 deceit ban is because when she first applied to come to the UK she didnt put down that she might meet me when she was coming here, but it wasn't definite that we were going to meet for certian and for her it was mainly for a tourist visit. So then the UK embassy when they saw her new application saw that this time she was coming to meet me and they thought that the previous application was "really" to come to see me not to visit the UK. It actually was to visit the UK and maybe meet me for a couple of hours but meeting me had not been set in stone at that time as we weren't as serious as we are now to we were then.


It's a pity they have slapped a 10-year ban on visiting, as your intentions seem clear enough and there was no intent to deceive. Perhaps two applications with a change of purpose, as they saw it, one after the other did the damage.
As I've said, the ban only applies to some temporary purposes such as visit. For settlement applications, ban under Section 320 (7B) of the Immigration Rules doesn't apply - see Section 320 (7C). 



> So I am going to travel to France and spend time with her there now.


Good. Build up positive record of meetings and growing relationship over the years to aid her eventual settlement. Keep evidence such as travel tickets, photos and hotel receipts.
If you can in the meantime marry and live together for some time, say a year or more outside UK, it will strengthen your case.



> Also do you know
> 
> 1) What is a Legalized full brith birth certificate? I have an original Birth Certificate already from my country the UK?


Any UK birth certificate you get from the registrar is fine. But see about apostille below.



> 2) What is a Legalized Cer of no impediment or CNI? I have a decree absolute from my divorce, is this the same thing?
> 
> 3) Is a CNT different from a decree absolute?


We don't have CNI in UK, but some other countries require it prior to marriage. In your case your decree absolute will suffice, but the British consulate can supply CNI on request. Some countries require UK official documents to be apostilled, which only the Foreign Office can perform it:
The Legalisation Office (FCO) - The only competent authority in the UK to issue apostilles and legalisation certificates.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Once again thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

We are so gutted they have done this as we were never deceitful, they just presumed that her first visit was to see me and not tourism, but it was mainly tourism, infact we couldn't agree on a place to meet for coffee as I really didn't want to meet up in London and she didn't want to travel up to Newcastle and couldn't agree on anywhere in the middle, she even said it would be a pity if we didn't have a coffee while she was visiting London and it didn't look like we were even going to meet, plus we were not that serious at the time. So why would she tell the embassy on her tourist visa application that she might be meeting someone for a coffee for a couple of hours in London who she is aquantanicves with who lives in the UK. 

Well, we are just going to build up other ways the same as my own country that my grandfather fought for will not allow my girlfriend too come and spend two days with me.

Also on her refusal; letter it says 320(7B) (d) immigration rules ...... What is the (d)?? This still means that this will not affect any spouse visa correct?

Thanks again!


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## Gregarious (Mar 12, 2012)

Though I am late in reply but I think you must mention at least 12-14 days in the Form and provide strong evidences mentioned by Mr. Joppa.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

newlight1 said:


> Once again thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
> 
> We are so gutted they have done this as we were never deceitful, they just presumed that her first visit was to see me and not tourism, but it was mainly tourism, infact we couldn't agree on a place to meet for coffee as I really didn't want to meet up in London and she didn't want to travel up to Newcastle and couldn't agree on anywhere in the middle, she even said it would be a pity if we didn't have a coffee while she was visiting London and it didn't look like we were even going to meet, plus we were not that serious at the time. So why would she tell the embassy on her tourist visa application that she might be meeting someone for a coffee for a couple of hours in London who she is aquantanicves with who lives in the UK.
> 
> ...


320(7B)(d) is _'using Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not)'_ during previous 10 years.

320(7C) says:
_Paragraph 320(7B) shall not apply in the following circumstances:
(a) where the applicant is applying as:
(i) a spouse, civil partner or unmarried or same-sex partner under
paragraphs 281 or 295A, 
(ii) a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner under paragraph 290_ 

so she can apply for settlement visa as spouse or fiancée during the next 10 years but not most other forms of visa for temporary purposes.


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for that. I was speaking with a laweyer and showed her the refusal letter and she said that "it doesn’t quote the relevant case law, that’s the issue" 

What do you think she means by this?


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## newlight1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks Joppa that makes sense!

This is a little far in advacnce of things but something I need to think about and discover. 

I am in receipt of the lower rate contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance but may go up at a later date. I live with my parents at the moment due to my disability which stopped me from working, have been working a number of years hence being entilited to the "Contribution-based" ESA. 

1) Now my questions are when it comes to the maintenance requirement for the settlement visa I will apply with me being most probably on ESA, living with my parents but my parents are willing to sponsor her and will allow us to live there as long as we need and they own their property. I have a small amount of savings, no where near £10,000. I don't have any debt and neither does she. Do you think we might have a problem with this area of the visa? 

2) If I have my own place before she arrives and get the rent/council tax paid for and am still in receipt of ESA and she arrives, will they stop any of my housing benefit/council tax or ESA? 

3) My parents were also worried about if her and I split up and they sponsored her, would the lost their savings, or if she got into any debt they would be responsible or they would have to support her for the rest of her life in the UK? My parents are retired. 

4) Will the fact that she is from Albania rather than somewhere like the US make it harder to fufill the maintenance requirement? 

5) If I ask a solicitor for help will I be entitled to Legal Aid for help with her visa in terms of does legal aid cover this type of thing? 

Thanks in advance


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## lalchicy (Mar 25, 2012)

Sorry I don't know enough of this situation, but I do wish you the best in this


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