# All Bars & Nightclubs Off Limits



## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

U.S. Pacific Command is strictly limiting liberty for troops participating in the Balikatan exercise alongside 
5,000 Filipino troops. “Service members participating in, and supporting Balikatan 2015 may only eat in restaurants inside their hotel or within close proximity to their hotel (walking distance) if their hotel does not have a restaurant inside,” said Army Maj. David Eastburn, a PACOM spokesman. 
Absolutely off limits will be the bars and nightclubs, Eastburn said, but commands can organize their own events. “Bars and nightclubs are off limits, and all participants in Balikatan 2015 must be back in their hotel by 10 p.m.
Service members may participate in command sponsored community relations events, and ships may authorize events on the pier.”
The exercise, which begins April 20 and runs for 10 days, involves elements from the III Marine Expeditionary Force, the amphibious transport dock Green Bay and various Navy construction, riverine and explosive ordnance disposal units. Liberty has been restricted for U.S. troops in the Philippines since a Marine was accused of murdering a local transgender woman, Jennifer Laude, after a night out on the town. 
Lance Cpl. Joseph Pemberton is on trial in the Philippines and faces 20 years in prison if convicted. The killing infuriated many Filipinos, who have called for their government to scrap the newly minted 2014 Visiting Forces Agreement, a major foreign policy victory for the Obama administration, which rekindled military 
ties with the country after decades of frosty relations. But the Philippine government has stood by the VFA, saying it will not renegotiate the deal.
Balikatan, which means “shoulder to shoulder,” is a field training exercise that includes a number of humanitarian assistance projects. “Our armed forces and the U.S. armed forces are coming together for these mutual defense and disaster response exercises towards a more responsive partnership to the community, focusing on development and community service,” Philippine Lt. Col. Harold Cabunoc told The Philippine Star. In addition to the 11,000 U.S. and Philippine troops, Australia is sending about 60 troops and an aircraft 
to the exercise. The exercise comes at a time of rising tension between China and its neighbors over its construction of artificial islands in the Spratlys
archipelago, which lies off the coasts of Malaysia and the Philippines. Analysts believe that the Chinese government is seeking to expand its exclusive rights to resources, including fishing and mineral deposits. [Source: NavyTimes | April 20, 2015 ++]


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Liberty action extreme's to the next level, many of these encounters end up in marriage, reason is that these women who want marriage and to meet American men, many flock in huge numbers to these bars from the other provinces, at the chance, so it narrows down who wants to meet who, I guess they can meet at McDonald's also. 

So basically the extremists, wealthy family's, Chinese supporters (Minority) get their way once again.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

mcalleyboy said:


> Liberty action extreme's to the next level, many of these encounters end up in marriage, reason is that these women who want marriage and to meet American men, many flock in huge numbers to these bars from the other provinces, at the chance, so it narrows down who wants to meet who, I guess they can meet at McDonald's also.
> 
> So basically the extremists, wealthy family's, Chinese supporters (Minority) get their way once again.


I say let pinas protect themselves. When they wanted us out in 93 that negated any previous agreements.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

mcalleyboy said:


> Liberty action extreme's to the next level, many of these encounters end up in marriage, reason is that these women who want marriage and to meet American men, many flock in huge numbers to these bars from the other provinces, at the chance, so it narrows down who wants to meet who, I guess they can meet at McDonald's also.
> 
> So basically the extremists, wealthy family's, Chinese supporters (Minority) get their way once again.


Good. Point . PLENTY of places to meet and hook up. I remember the whole huba Baloo during base negotiations and the anti U.S. rhetoric about us corrupting the virtues of women there etc. One coming from a corrupt priest, who I think was an Irishman there, , acting like the only men patronizing women in establishments were Americans back then, when we all no the real truth. Can't tell you the number of male Filipino bars I saw when we were working various ops out in the various cities or towns. In the current situation, I expect there are fears of a "set up" this time to build off of the prior murder and get the agitators riled up All needed is a bogus assault claim to stir things up, just like the agitators,stirred things up during negotiations, or actually worse during some of the base worker strikes back then.


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## colemanlee (Nov 17, 2014)

U.S. Pacific Command is strictly limiting liberty for troops participating in the Balikatan exercise 

I dont see its the Philippines setting the liberty limits, what I do see is over response by the US Military...which is the direction the Military seems to be taking...Before I retired, the Marines changed their policy on tattoos, besides submitting the standard promotion picture you had to declare your tats and have a body shot of them to see if they were offensive, tats were a death nil for officers...for those of us older folks that are retired, I seriously doubt we would fit in with the new directions of the Military. Speaking only for myself, when I retired I was considered a bit of a throw back...I joined in 1967 got out in 70 (3yrs6mo) then went back in in 1978 after I received my degree, saw lots of changes then (peace time sux) when I finally retired in 95, it was after Desert Storm, peace time again...saw the first Commandant that had no enlisted time, and if I remember correctly the first Commandant that was not a grunt....the military has changed, most of the folks running it now are Politically Correct..


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

This my friends is just an example of how Americans in position react to any situation. I've seen it in my 40+ years dealing with all branches. There are a few very few leaders left in the military. Now it is as the old saying goes YES SIR ,YES SIR 3 BAGS FULL. If you don't tow the line you can and most likely will be forced out.


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

They are out and about here in Subic, especially in the Harbor Point mall. I suspect they are not allowed to go out of the freeport into Olongapo.

I went to get my haircut there at the mall and the GQ shop was flooded with soldiers. The barbers were loving it and the I saw a few soldiers were leaving p100 tips for the p150 haircut. I think they were mostly Marines and they didn't have much hair to cut, so the barbers were moving them in and out very quick! Those barbers were having a great day!


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

DonAndAbby said:


> They are out and about here in Subic, especially in the Harbor Point mall. I suspect they are not allowed to go out of the freeport into Olongapo.
> 
> I went to get my haircut there at the mall and the GQ shop was flooded with soldiers. The barbers were loving it and the I saw a few soldiers were leaving p100 tips for the p150 haircut. I think they were mostly Marines and they didn't have much hair to cut, so the barbers were moving them in and out very quick! Those barbers were having a great day!


Never could get the word down to the lowest level. Controlling a bunch of young Marines if not in combat is a daunting task


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Here is a story from the local business owner's perspective.. 

Curfew, nightclub ban on US troops killing businesses in Olongapo, Subic

The USS Green Bay has departed with the USMC and another ship is in port now. 


I agree that keeping young marines in line is a hard thing to do. Especially if they have too much free time.


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## colemanlee (Nov 17, 2014)

jon1 said:


> Here is a story from the local business owner's perspective..
> 
> Curfew, nightclub ban on US troops killing businesses in Olongapo, Subic
> 
> ...


young Marines will always be young Marines...IMHO if the bar owners cared about the business, they would have been more pro active in policing their girls and protecting their guest...a friend of mine told me that now there are discos in AC that refuse entrance to ladyboys....


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

I agree with that. For some reason one of the largest joints on the waterfront has been lax about this and lost 2 days worth of business last week. The local officer refused to allow his troops into the joint as they were having problems with the ladyboys stealing cell phones and wallets.

Can't fix stupid..


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*End Result*



jon1 said:


> Here is a story from the local business owner's perspective..
> 
> Curfew, nightclub ban on US troops killing businesses in Olongapo, Subic
> 
> ...


End result looks like loss of business and jobs for the Philippine citizens, it's what happens when their leaders, media generalize foreigners (as if they don't have murders/rape) and family members of the victims lie and then try to extort vast amounts of money from Westerner's or settle for special concessions such as the one girl that got US citizenship. 

Maybe it's not a bad thing after all hitting them where it hurts the wallet/revenue's/taxes. Marines can save their money for another port call somewhere else, works for me.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

colemanlee said:


> young Marines will always be young Marines...IMHO if the bar owners cared about the business, they would have been more pro active in policing their girls and protecting their guest...a friend of mine told me that now there are discos in AC that refuse entrance to ladyboys....


But who can go against the leftists, including the Strong congressman of Subic, who declared the Americans can come back, over his dead body ?

You think he and his buddies cares about the job losses?

The leftists can manufacture statistics showing hundreds of thousands having become employed, post 93, though the rest know poverty and unemployed has really gone up. 

The issue I see is, poverty is driving more and more women to bars, shutting out the bars is NOT the solution. Getting the girls gainfully employed is what need to be done ... which everybody knows but pretend not to know


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

mcalleyboy said:


> Maybe it's not a bad thing after all hitting them where it hurts the wallet/revenue's/taxes. Marines can save their money for another port call somewhere else, works for me.


Well, those congressmen and senators who paint the US as evil have no issues if more natives go hungry. The rich are too rich to even know there's a problem called poor ..

And their passionate speeches and pocket money will continue to win elections ....


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

Ret-Mil, these issues shouldn't be discussed on a PI Expat Forum. Give it a rest! Big Brother is watching !


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

pakawala said:


> Ret-Mil, these issues shouldn't be discussed on a PI Expat Forum. Give it a rest! Big Brother is watching !


Why? It is news. BIG BROTHER? Parinoid are you?


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> Ret-Mil, these issues shouldn't be discussed on a PI Expat Forum. Give it a rest! Big Brother is watching !


Why shouldnt they be discussed? Im sure its public knowledge and if a mod wanted it stopped they would stop it. What makes some of you think you have the right to tell someone not to post or to "give it a rest?" Its a public forum,why turn it into the other trashy forums? Many here are vets


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

So far, the subjects in this thread are just fine for posting and discussion. Weather it be Ret-Mil, Ladyboys, or how many sand crabs are on Baloy beach at any given time are within normal subject matter.

As long as posts are made without personal attack and stay within the rest of the forum rules, I see nothing wrong with the thread or the subject matter.



Jet Lag
Moderator


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

As Ron Burgundy says, "Stay Classy San Diego!" A needed and excellent discussion I think. As Coleman noted, this was done by USF in terms of restrictions, afraid of another incident or set up. Same time, not everything makes sense and speaking of USMC, I was a grunt 03 in Beirut when we were running around with completely unloaded weapons in '83, and we know how that turned out. As I recall, we Still did that non sense after the embassy was blown up by a truck bomb. As a side, when we were running patrols, I deviated from that ridiculousness and always had my guys at least load. This stuff happens with politics takes over reality then and now. On the way back from there, we stopped in Key West for a port call middle of summer, and were made to wear modified Dress Blues. yeah, nothing quite says "smart move!" like wearing wool in 90+ degree temps with 90% humidity! So, point is, nothing sensible then and no reason to think it would be now necessarily. I sure hope me Marine brothers in arms had good port call anyway, albeit a bit disappointing in paradise I'm sure.


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

lefties43332 said:


> Why shouldnt they be discussed? Im sure its public knowledge and if a mod wanted it stopped they would stop it. What makes some of you think you have the right to tell someone not to post or to "give it a rest?" Its a public forum,why turn it into the other trashy forums? Many here are vets


True, the initial article was news. OPSEC/COMSEC, remember that? Eyes on the ground reporting military movement, ship arrivals/departures, port activity, gathering locations, liberty locations from eyes on the ground, then posting this on an Expat Forum, moderated by Non-Military. All COMSEC/OPSEC violations.

Operations security (OPSEC) is a term originating in U.S. military jargon, as a process that identifies critical information to determine if friendly actions can be observed by adversary intelligence systems, determines if information obtained by adversaries could be interpreted to be useful to them, and then executes selected measures that eliminate or reduce adversary exploitation of friendly critical information.

Though the above statement is true in its official military format, OPSEC is the process of protecting little pieces of data that could be grouped together to give the bigger picture. OPSEC is the protecting of critical information deemed mission essential from military commanders. Protecting this critical information is through the use of email encryption software, being careful of who may be listening to you (like in a hotel bar), paying close attention to a picture you have taken (back ground), or *not talking openly on social media sites about information on the unit's critical information list (military deployments, shortages of equipment or movement of VIPs).*


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> True, the initial article was news. OPSEC/COMSEC, remember that? Eyes on the ground reporting military movement, ship arrivals/departures, port activity, gathering locations, liberty locations from eyes on the ground, then posting this on an Expat Forum, moderated by Non-Military. All COMSEC/OPSEC violations.


This isnt news this is old hat. Ive had filipinos i dont even know approaching me about this for months. Its just drama being rehashed. Same old thing in subic now and then. Even in 44 when my uncle was there.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Topic Notice*

*Folks, I'm posting this just as a reminder. Be sure that anything posted on this or a like topic is already public knowledge.

Should this country become involved in any military conflict, all posts of this nature would be disallowed.

For now, please feel free to continue posting -- but do so with caution.









*


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

c_acton98 said:


> Why? It is news. BIG BROTHER? Parinoid are you?


Not Paranoid, Here is a good explanation from The Department of Defense Inspector Generals Website, for the reason i posted that.

DoD IG - Disclaimers - Social


Operational Security (OPSEC). *All personnel (including families and friends of service members) have a responsibility to ensure that no information that might put our military members in jeopardy or would be of use to our adversaries is posted to websites that are readily accessible to the public.* Not surprisingly, that information includes, among other things, technical information, operation plans, troop movement schedules, current and future locations of military units and ships, descriptions of overseas bases, details of weapon system, or discussions of areas frequented by service members overseas. Other information that's not as obvious but should also not be discussed in an open forum includes daily military activities and operations, equipment status, unit morale, and results of operations. Any of these topics, if released in an open medium, have the ability to provide our adversaries opportunities to harm our military members.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> Not Paranoid, Here is a good explanation from The Department of Defense Inspector Generals Website, for the reason i posted that.
> 
> DoD IG - Disclaimers - Social
> 
> Operational Security (OPSEC). All personnel (including families and friends of service members) have a responsibility to ensure that no information that might put our military members in jeopardy or would be of use to our adversaries is posted to websites that are readily accessible to the public. Not surprisingly, that information includes, among other things, technical information, operation plans, troop movement schedules, current and future locations of military units and ships, descriptions of overseas bases, details of weapon system, or discussions of areas frequented by service members overseas. Other information that's not as obvious but should also not be discussed in an open forum includes daily military activities and operations, equipment status, unit morale, and results of operations. Any of these topics, if released in an open medium, have the ability to provide our adversaries opportunities to harm our military members.


And he understands that completely as a retired marine..but what he posted isnt secret...its past headlines....old hat.


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

pakawala said:


> Not Paranoid, Here is a good explanation from The Department of Defense Inspector Generals Website, for the reason i posted that.
> 
> DoD IG - Disclaimers - Social
> 
> ...


I understand and am real familiar with the rules of engagement. OPSEC is not a real concern here! Unless someone posts who what when where and why. And most of us here should not have that info. If you look at the original post it was from the NAVY TIMES. So if it was an OPSEC violation it was on them. The point is the Navy made a decision to try to eliminate possible political confrontations with the Philippine people. It is not a tactical decision. You know as well as all military folks here can attest to the local people can tell you what ship when where and how many folks onboard. Now thats an OPSEC violation so how do they get that info? I MYSELF WOULD NEVER POST ANYTHING THAT WOULD PUT OUR MILITARY PEOPLE IN JEOPARDY.


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

c_acton98 said:


> I understand and am real familiar with the rules of engagement. OPSEC is not a real concern here! Unless someone posts who what when where and why. And most of us here should not have that info. If you look at the original post it was from the NAVY TIMES. So if it was an OPSEC violation it was on them. The point is the Navy made a decision to try to eliminate possible political confrontations with the Philippine people. It is not a tactical decision. You know as well as all military folks here can attest to the local people can tell you what ship when where and how many folks onboard. Now thats an OPSEC violation so how do they get that info? I MYSELF WOULD NEVER POST ANYTHING THAT WOULD PUT OUR MILITARY PEOPLE IN JEOPARDY.


I wasn't referring to the original news post, that was published news. What concerned me was the subsequent posts coming from eyes on the ground concerning ship movements and discussions of areas frequented by service members. 

Although the public with eyes on the ground can see these same activities, these activities should not be posted to websites that are readily accessible to the public for the reasons mentioned.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

lefties43332 said:


> This isnt news this is old hat. Ive had filipinos i dont even know approaching me about this for months. Its just drama being rehashed. Same old thing in subic now and then. Even in 44 when my uncle was there.


Spot on Lefties. There is Nothing posted that was not already clearly on open source and we'll known. Guaranteed any "adversary" has know about the Exercise for months or a yr...it occurs Every year...and is well publicized. Same for any restrictions on liberty etc and at this point is old news and already after the fact. This simply is Not FP material or of any interest. They already know who was there and who Is there.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

pakawala said:


> I wasn't referring to the original news post, that was published news. What concerned me was the subsequent posts coming from eyes on the ground concerning ship movements and discussions of areas frequented by service members.
> 
> Although the public with eyes on the ground can see these same activities, these activities should not be posted to websites that are readily accessible to the public for the reasons mentioned.


And I understand what you are saying, but nothing on here is news or unknown , and you know anyone "interested" in that info there in Subic or elsewhere in country already is There in some capacity and already knew. As a side, if you want to see some revealing info, search any of the P.A. sites for any of the branches of service and see what is openly posted there, etc. Everything being posted Here is not a piece of any puzzle...it was already gleaned weeks or months ago.


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

Nickleback99 said:


> And I understand what you are saying, but nothing on here is news or unknown , and you know anyone "interested" in that info there in Subic or elsewhere in country already is There in some capacity and already knew. As a side, if you want to see some revealing info, search any of the P.A. sites for any of the branches of service and see what is openly posted there, etc. Everything being posted Here is not a piece of any puzzle...it was already gleaned weeks or months ago.


I remember my days in Korea, the commander would say guys were going on maneuvers Team Spirit we will get our base location on the move. Then bam its 4 AM we arrive and mama-sun has hot ramen KimChi already prepared even had he girls there. I'd go downtown and start to consume Soju when mama-sun would say don't drink too much you have alert in the morning. Seemed everyone know except the guys who should know. Man those were the days:high5:


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

c_acton98 said:


> . Seemed everyone know except the guys who should know. Man those were the days:high5:


:d 

+1


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

Nickleback99 said:


> And I understand what you are saying, but nothing on here is news or unknown , and you know anyone "interested" in that info there in Subic or elsewhere in country already is There in some capacity and already knew. As a side, if you want to see some revealing info, search any of the P.A. sites for any of the branches of service and see what is openly posted there, etc. Everything being posted Here is not a piece of any puzzle...it was already gleaned weeks or months ago.


You'll have to forgive me for my OPSEC concern for US Military here. Perhaps I am overreacting from living here in the the 80's and experiencing firsthand the slaughter of fellow US Military by sparrow units. One incident, i missed being one of the assassinated by minutes, another I can still hear the gunfire of the slaughter from McDonalds, Dau.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> You'll have to forgive me for my OPSEC concern for US Military here. Perhaps I am overreacting from living here in the the 80's and experiencing firsthand the slaughter of fellow US Military by sparrow units. One incident, i missed being one of the assassinated by minutes, another I can still hear the gunfire of the slaughter from McDonalds, Dau.


As jetlag stated he is monitoring it and he will be the one to correct the situation. We (many if us) saw and heard things we wish we hadnt...we all have our stories and for my own...this isnt the place...ptsd affects some if us..we move on.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

pakawala said:


> You'll have to forgive me for my OPSEC concern for US Military here. Perhaps I am overreacting from living here in the the 80's and experiencing firsthand the slaughter of fellow US Military by sparrow units. One incident, i missed being one of the assassinated by minutes, another I can still hear the gunfire of the slaughter from McDonalds, Dau.


Roger that. I was there....whether NPA Sparrow units with single head shot, the contractors killed in ambush or Col Rowe killed by drug corruption in Manila...but never Subic (Thank you Gordon family!). It's my life.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

pakawala said:


> You'll have to forgive me for my OPSEC concern for US Military here. Perhaps I am overreacting from living here in the the 80's and experiencing firsthand the slaughter of fellow US Military by sparrow units. One incident, i missed being one of the assassinated by minutes, another I can still hear the gunfire of the slaughter from McDonalds, Dau.


I DEROSed from Clark two hours before all that went down. Landed and saw it on the news, was pretty shocking. Was the end of the AC party as we knew it then.


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

Nickleback99 said:


> Roger that. I was there....whether NPA Sparrow units with single head shot, the contractors killed in ambush or Col Rowe killed by drug corruption in Manila...but never Subic (Thank you Gordon family!). It's my life.



http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1990/05/06/page/35/article/filipino-rebel-blamed-in-u-s-marines-death
U.S. Marine Slain Near Base in Philippines
May 6, 1990 
A suspected Communist gunman shot and killed a U.S. Marine sergeant *outside the American-run Subic Bay naval complex*, prompting officials Saturday to restrict travel by all U.S. military personnel in the Philippines as a precaution. The U.S. Navy identified the slain American as Gunnery Sgt. John S. Fredette, 34, of Buena Park, Calif. He was attached to the 323rd Marine Fighter Squadron based in El Toro, Calif., and was on temporary duty at Subic.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

pakawala said:


> http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1990/05/06/page/35/article/filipino-rebel-blamed-in-u-s-marines-death
> U.S. Marine Slain Near Base in Philippines
> May 6, 1990
> A suspected Communist gunman shot and killed a U.S. Marine sergeant outside the American-run Subic Bay naval complex, prompting officials Saturday to restrict travel by all U.S. military personnel in the Philippines as a precaution. The U.S. Navy identified the slain American as Gunnery Sgt. John S. Fredette, 34, of Buena Park, Calif. He was attached to the 323rd Marine Fighter Squadron based in El Toro, Calif., and was on temporary duty at Subic.


Actually it was a robbery gone bad by two.. trike driver and a blue shirt . I Know because WE worked the case (I'm not military ).... Personal friends then and now with the Agent who broke the case. We were deep into Bataan day after digging up info. Shooter was the "Blue Shirt" . GySgt was big guy and resisted and boom
They were charged, but as usual there, they just waited us out and by time we all left in 1992, the case died.


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Nickleback99 said:


> Actually it was a robbery gone bad by two.. trike driver and a blue shirt . I Know because WE worked the case (I'm not military ).... Personal friends then and now with the Agent who broke the case. We were deep into Bataan day after digging up info. Shooter was the "Blue Shirt" . GySgt was big guy and resisted and boom
> They were charged, but as usual there, they just waited us out and by time we all left in 1992, the case died.


And I was personal friends with the Gunnys immediate C.O. as we had gone to TBS together. He stayed in flying and I got out and on to much more fun "things" with far less "rules". No I'm getting older and slower in a young man's game, so, set to retire Soon.


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