# Is There Such a Place?



## vantexan

As you may have read, I loved San Miguel, my wife didn't. Her main complaints were walking on cobblestone streets with narrow sidewalks, and the lack of stores to shop in. She actually has bad knees so can't blame her for the streets. But she dearly missed the huge choice she was used to at home. She loves to shop, but before you get the wrong idea she's really into thrift stores and loves spending hours finding a jewel in the rough. But she also loves having the huge amount of choice available in the States.

Now I know that's anathema to some here. You may have come to Mexico to get away from the commercialism. But I'm trying to find a compromise. We had heard good things about Queretaro but were overwhelmed by the traffic there. So my question is, are there cities in Mexico that have good shopping, good weather, reasonable traffic, and are affordable? I've read Puebla has a large middle class so might try to steer her that direction. We just don't want the frenetic pace we saw in Queretaro which was otherwise a fine looking city. She's saying we can come back as soon as our old dogs pass away, which may be 4 or 5 years. There were apartments we liked on the Internet that didn't allow dogs. I know Guadalajara has it all, was wondering about Tlaquepaque? Thanks for any help!


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## GARYJ65

I could think about some places; Puebla, once again Queretaro, Guadalajara, Zapopan, etc.
They all are great cities, but they all have narrow streets, and some other problems, including the lack of all the choices your wife likes.
I'm sorry to say this, but in 4 to 5 more years cobble stones may seem bigger than now
Dogs also get older here in Mexico you know?

Anyway, if you really would like to convince your wife of coming here, in spite of her list of "different than the US", I suggest for you guys to start learning Spanish, it will make a great difference whenever you come again.

Hope I wrote something helpful


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I could think about some places; Puebla, once again Queretaro, Guadalajara, Zapopan, etc.
> They all are great cities, but they all have narrow streets, and some other problems, including the lack of all the choices your wife likes.
> I'm sorry to say this, but in 4 to 5 more years cobble stones may seem bigger than now
> Dogs also get older here in Mexico you know?
> 
> Anyway, if you really would like to convince your wife of coming here, in spite of her list of "different than the US", I suggest for you guys to start learning Spanish, it will make a great difference whenever you come again.
> 
> Hope I wrote something helpful


Thanks Gary, very helpful. The thing is we're moving into my mom's house in the country outside of the vast metropolis of Kinston, NC. A few years of that and Mexico will look much better to her I'm betting!


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Thanks Gary, very helpful. The thing is we're moving into my mom's house in the country outside of the vast metropolis of Kinston, NC. A few years of that and Mexico will look much better to her I'm betting!


Sounds like you do have a plan now!


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## Longford

vantexan ... Mexico, obviously ... isn't the location for you to live. Give it up. Look elsewhere. Or, find another woman to live with. Those are your choices.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> vantexan ... Mexico, obviously ... isn't the location for you to live. Give it up. Look elsewhere. Or, find another woman to live with. Those are your choices.


I would like to soften Longford's comments a little. Another choice is to encourage your wife to look at a move to Mexico as a way to open her world to activities that go beyond shopping, though I will admit that shopping in traditional Mexican markets and tianguis give me a lot of pleasure!


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## Hound Dog

Vantexan:

I suggest Metropolitan Guadalajara, which includes Zapopan, Tlaquepaque and lots of other places I won´t even start to go into and where there is fabulous shopping from expensive to discount stores of all kinds. It is the city you seek in Mexico. Forget Puebla which can´t hold a candle to Guadalajara for what you and your wife are seeking and, believe me, I know both cities. Rural North Carolina living with my mama (if she were still with us on the planet) would drive me insane and I say that as a rural Alabama boy. Get out of there ASAP.


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## kito1

vantexan said:


> Thanks Gary, very helpful. The thing is we're moving into my mom's house in the country outside of the vast metropolis of Kinston, NC. A few years of that and Mexico will look much better to her I'm betting!


I was just telling someone the other day that Kinston has to be one of the most miserable places in all the USA. Perhaps the only place worse is Wilson or Goldsboro. Anyway, be very careful there also this is one dangerous drug infested town. There are plenty of neighborhoods you do NOT want to go once the sun goes down or even in broad daylight for that matter.

Last reports from 2011, from what I have heard, it has only gotten worse the last couple of years. 

50 murders per 100K persons. What is it in Juarez?

Crime rate in Kinston, North Carolina (NC): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers statistics

.

.


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## vantexan

kito1 said:


> I was just telling someone the other day that Kinston has to be one of the most miserable places in all the USA. Perhaps the only place worse is Wilson or Goldsboro. Anyway, be very careful there also this is one dangerous drug infested town. There are plenty of neighborhoods you do NOT want to go once the sun goes down or even in broad daylight for that matter.
> 
> Last reports from 2011, from what I have heard, it has only gotten worse the last couple of years.
> 
> 50 murders per 100K persons. What is it in Juarez?
> 
> Crime rate in Kinston, North Carolina (NC): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers statistics
> 
> 
> .


You definitely know the area, LOL.


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## vantexan

Hound Dog said:


> Vantexan:
> 
> I suggest Metropolitan Guadalajara, which includes Zapopan, Tlaquepaque and lots of other places I won´t even start to go into and where there is fabulous shopping from expensive to discount stores of all kinds. It is the city you seek in Mexico. Forget Puebla which can´t hold a candle to Guadalajara for what you and your wife are seeking and, believe me, I know both cities. Rural North Carolina living with my mama (if she were still with us on the planet) would drive me insane and I say that as a rural Alabama boy. Get out of there ASAP.


I suspect you are right but I've always liked Puebla for some reason. I think the ultimate for us would be to live in Ajijic or nearby and drive into Guadalajara on occasion.


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## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> I would like to soften Longford's comments a little. Another choice is to encourage your wife to look at a move to Mexico as a way to open her world to activities that go beyond shopping, though I will admit that shopping in traditional Mexican markets and tianguis give me a lot of pleasure!


I find the history and cultures of Mexico fascinating. To see where Father Miguel Hildalgo proclaimed the famous Grito in Dolores Hidalgo meant alot to me. Talked her into detouring to Real de Catorce on the way home. I loved the atmosphere. She loved the many booths of souvenirs to go through. We both loved the big Tuesday tiangui in San Miguel. But it's not enough for her. Playa del Carmen appeals for both the beach and the American style amenities. But she only wants to be there in the winter. Maybe Guadalajara with occasional trips to Puerto Vallarta is the way to go.


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## vantexan

Longford said:


> vantexan ... Mexico, obviously ... isn't the location for you to live. Give it up. Look elsewhere. Or, find another woman to live with. Those are your choices.


Waited until 51 to get married. Married a girl who went through hell with her first husband and never gave up trying to find me decades after we met in college. Sorry, not that casual about changing relationships.


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## citlali

Forget Mexico. The large cities have shopping centers similar to the States but usually more expensive and less choice. The traffic in larger cities in and around centro is usually heavy. If you guys think the traffic in Queretaro is bad you are not ready for Puebla, Oaxaca or Guadalaja or Mexico City and so on..

Give it up Mexico is not the US. After a few years here I get overwhelmed by the choices in Europe and the US but to tell you the truth when you are retired you have acquired all the junk you can take and it is time to take another hobby especially if you are on a tight budget.

We have been living here for 13 years and we have never had to shop for anything in the States we could not find here if we put our mind to it.
Many people complain they cannot find this or that but if you really are looking you probably will find it.

You guys did not give Mexico a chance, it is obvious that if you ever move to Mexico you should look at a place like Chapala where they are many foreigners and many shops and where it is easier to find US items. (By the way some of the villages have cobblestones as well and so do many quaint places in Europe so stay in the US)

You may think you would like Mexico but really you are looking at the wrong country. Find a place in the States where you and take short vacations to Mexico.


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## citlali

Tlaquepaque has a few blocks of high end furniture and folk art type of stores and the rest is just like any other city, traffic narrow sidewalks and so on.

She may like some of the shopping center in Guadalajara but the nice ones are usually in the hiher priced districts and if she does not like the traffic in Queretaro she sure will not like the traffic in Guadalajara.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Forget Mexico. The large cities have shopping centers similar to the States but usually more expensive and less choice. The traffic in larger cities in and around centro is usually heavy. If you guys think the traffic in Queretaro is bad you are not ready for Puebla, Oaxaca or Guadalaja or Mexico City and so on..
> 
> Give it up Mexico is not the US. After a few years here I get overwhelmed by the choices in Europe and the US but to tell you the truth when you are retired you have acquired all the junk you can take and it is time to take another hobby especially if you are on a tight budget.
> 
> We have been living here for 13 years and we have never had to shop for anything in the States we could not find here if we put our mind to it.
> Many people complain they cannot find this or that but if you really are looking you probably will find it.
> 
> You guys did not give Mexico a chance, it is obvious that if you ever move to Mexico you should look at a place like Chapala where they are many foreigners and many shops and where it is easier to find US items. (By the way some of the villages have cobblestones as well and so do many quaint places in Europe so stay in the US)
> 
> You may think you would like Mexico but really you are looking at the wrong country. Find a place in the States where you and take short vacations to Mexico.


We've already been contacted by a very nice member here who informed us of all the bazaars and garage sales in the Chapala area where many expat items can be found for a discount. Very informative and exactly what my wife hoped for. Thanks to her for the last PM which made us laugh with her description of daily life.

I've given Mexico many chances including having lived on the border for years. Before you tell me that the border isn't Mexico believe me I know. But it's an indication of my determination. No one forced me to move there. And I loved San Miguel and would be content wandering through it's streets as well as other cities in the region the rest of my life. But I want to keep my wife happy. I personally don't need the shopping and am content with reading, walking, surfing the 'net, and a little tv.


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## citlali

I would not say the border is not Mexico it is just one aspect of Mexico. Chapala is another aspect of it some people love it and some hate it, good thing otherwise everyone would end up in the same place.

The you I used was a plural like You all.


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## mickisue1

Van, because you did wait till 51 to marry, it may be a little more challenging to deal with the (sometimes HUGE) compromises that marriage requires.

As a person who was also previously married to a jerk, I know that when I started dating my dear husband, I was particularly adamant that I not give in too easily. Whether you, personally, have given MX, in all its crazy, wonderful diversity, a decent chance is irrelevant. Right now, for her own reasons, your wife is not happy with the thought of living there. 

Perhaps a year or two, or even a decade, of living in the US, and visiting, regularly, will convince her otherwise. Life is long; so, ideally, is marriage. You are recently married, yes? In not that long a time, if you both approach with the goodwill that you seem to have, you will have moved, both of you, closer to a place where compromise doesn't feel like giving in, and where "agreeing to disagree" is the best way to move on from a disagreement.

I say that as a person who tends to be VERY black and white about issues, and to want every.single.detail tied down ahead of time. I've had to let my control of situations relax, and understand that it's just not possible for two people to want the same thing in every situation, nor to believe the same thing, either. 

The rewards are great. Moving forward into the future, I know that, even though my husband may not be 100% on board with my vision for our retirement, he will at least entertain the thought. And that's because he knows that I will do the same for him.


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## Isla Verde

mickisue1 said:


> Van, because you did wait till 51 to marry, it may be a little more challenging to deal with the (sometimes HUGE) compromises that marriage requires.
> 
> As a person who was also previously married to a jerk, I know that when I started dating my dear husband, I was particularly adamant that I not give in too easily. Whether you, personally, have given MX, in all its crazy, wonderful diversity, a decent chance is irrelevant. Right now, for her own reasons, your wife is not happy with the thought of living there.
> 
> Perhaps a year or two, or even a decade, of living in the US, and visiting, regularly, will convince her otherwise. Life is long; so, ideally, is marriage. You are recently married, yes? In not that long a time, if you both approach with the goodwill that you seem to have, you will have moved, both of you, closer to a place where compromise doesn't feel like giving in, and where "agreeing to disagree" is the best way to move on from a disagreement.
> 
> I say that as a person who tends to be VERY black and white about issues, and to want every.single.detail tied down ahead of time. I've had to let my control of situations relax, and understand that it's just not possible for two people to want the same thing in every situation, nor to believe the same thing, either.
> 
> The rewards are great. Moving forward into the future, I know that, even though my husband may not be 100% on board with my vision for our retirement, he will at least entertain the thought. And that's because he knows that I will do the same for him.


I've never been married and at my age (I turned 68 this past summer), I doubt I ever will. But if a really special guy comes my way, and I pop the question, I'll keep your wise words in mind. Thanks for this excellent advice!


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## tijuanahopeful

Isla Verde said:


> I've never been married and at my age (I turned 68 this past summer), I doubt I ever will. But if a really special guy comes my way, and I pop the question, I'll keep your wise words in mind. Thanks for this excellent advice!


I just turned 65, and have exactly the same thing to say as Isla Verde.


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## lagoloo

If serious shopping, U.S. style, is your wife's favorite activity..........there's not much hope here.

However, the Lake Chapala area is a good place to start out in Mexico...and why not bring the old dogs, too? It's nice and warm for them in the endless sunshine. 

Plenty of charity-run thrift stores, essentials shopping and it's a short trip to world class shopping in Guadalajara. In fact, our local Red Cross runs a bus over to the various large malls on a regular basis for those who don't want to drive. People spend the day shopping and there's plenty of room below the bus for the purchases.

Yes, learning Spanish is a good idea, but in some areas like Lake Chapala, people can get by without total fluency since many Mexicans running businesses also speak some English.

What is essential is that both of you want to make the move.


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## GARYJ65

Speaking Spanish is so much more than a good idea if you are going to live in Mexico
You miss so much when you don't speak the language, on the other hand, you can accomplish so much by understanding and make yourself understood
I very strongly advice you to make an effort


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## vantexan

mickisue1 said:


> Van, because you did wait till 51 to marry, it may be a little more challenging to deal with the (sometimes HUGE) compromises that marriage requires.
> 
> As a person who was also previously married to a jerk, I know that when I started dating my dear husband, I was particularly adamant that I not give in too easily. Whether you, personally, have given MX, in all its crazy, wonderful diversity, a decent chance is irrelevant. Right now, for her own reasons, your wife is not happy with the thought of living there.
> 
> Perhaps a year or two, or even a decade, of living in the US, and visiting, regularly, will convince her otherwise. Life is long; so, ideally, is marriage. You are recently married, yes? In not that long a time, if you both approach with the goodwill that you seem to have, you will have moved, both of you, closer to a place where compromise doesn't feel like giving in, and where "agreeing to disagree" is the best way to move on from a disagreement.
> 
> I say that as a person who tends to be VERY black and white about issues, and to want every.single.detail tied down ahead of time. I've had to let my control of situations relax, and understand that it's just not possible for two people to want the same thing in every situation, nor to believe the same thing, either.
> 
> The rewards are great. Moving forward into the future, I know that, even though my husband may not be 100% on board with my vision for our retirement, he will at least entertain the thought. And that's because he knows that I will do the same for him.


Luckily I'm not one to get upset and demand everything my way. Comes from 27 years as a FedEx courier, where everyday I got tugged in different directions by mgrs, coworkers, and customers. You learn to deal with it or you quit. I don't have all the answers, but I do want to make her happy, and coming to forums like this certainly helps me determine how I can best meet her needs in Mexico. And your advice works well in any situation, thanks!


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> Luckily I'm not one to get upset and demand everything my way. Comes from 27 years as a FedEx courier, where everyday I got tugged in different directions by mgrs, coworkers, and customers. You learn to deal with it or you quit. I don't have all the answers, but I do want to make her happy, and coming to forums like this certainly helps me determine how I can best meet her needs in Mexico. And your advice works well in any situation, thanks!


I hope she wants to make you happy too!


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## conklinwh

Interesting, we lived in Raleigh NC after about a dozen years living abroad and were bored to death.
Expect Kinston even worse as to me only a bypass on the way to the beach.
We picked San Miguel initially because of the art base for my wife and my interest in history.
When we got there, we became fascinated by all the little shops and yes, the mercados as well. The Tuesday Market is interesting, but really as you come to explore San Miguel you will find any number of big spralling markets that are open everyday that sell about anything. Then as you wander the streets, just walk into the hundreds of bodegas and tiendas that have about anything. 
The more recent addition are the many consignment shops that have sprung up that have about every treasure that an expat would bring before finding out they really don't need in Mexico.
As to the cobblestones, yes they are there but better than they were. They have also widened a number of the sidewalks and continue to do so. I'm surprised that nobody told your wife about "San Miguel combat boots" that are de rigor for any woman that walks in San Miguel. It's crazy to walk without them.
I guess in net, I read your base note and all I can think of is half full/half empty because everything that you mentioned about what your wife disliked is part of the charm.
My guess is that your wife hasn't lived outside the US and it was an impossible decision.
The concept of Kinston NC over San Miguel is so impossible to me that my head will explode if I even think of it again.

Good luck!


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## chicois8

conklinwh Says: 
"We picked San Miguel initially because of the art base for my wife and my interest in history."

But forgets to mention his wife is a wonderful artist.........Rick


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## RVGRINGO

We escaped from North Carolina in 1998, moved to Chapala in 2001 and have been here ever since.


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## citlali

As I said if everyone liked the sme place it would be to crowded..
Some people left the Chapala area to move to NC and people living in NC left for Chapala, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Before deciding on anything it is important to visit and find out the pluses and minuses, looking on the internet and asking other people about the area is not sufficient..
I hated Boston at first sight, went back several times and never warmed up to it. Hated San Francisco at first sight and came to love it evenually ..you never know what the future will bring. 
After giving California a go for a couple of years I told my husband I wanted out and then found out that the place we moved back to was not where I wanted to live, after a year of searching and living in various area , we ended up back in San Francisco and that time stayed for 30 years..


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## conklinwh

Kinston-eastern NC BBQ, double A baseball, strip malls, high school basketball, .....


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## citlali

wow great cultural events...got to remember the place when I get sick of Mexico!


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## kito1

OK, I admit it.... I do miss that Vinegar BBQ!


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## citlali

We make it here so we do not miss anything.


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## vantexan

conklinwh said:


> Kinston-eastern NC BBQ, double A baseball, strip malls, high school basketball, .....


We drove through Pozos before leaving San Miguel. I was kind of taken with the idea of it. I'm not sure how Pozos would rate higher than Kinston. Kinston does have a Walmart, a Golden Corral, high speed, and I mean high speed, Internet, my particular favorite fast food, Bojangles. The Outer Banks and Wilmington aren't far. Greenville is nice and close by. Really not defending the town, just moved here because my mom and sister and nieces are here. My sister married a good guy and they have a farm with a ton of space for my old dogs to run around. Yes, I'd rather be in San Miguel, but we'll actually live cheaper here and my wife is happy. With my family here I am too. There is just alot more for me here than a place like Pozos. San Miguel does have alot going on but much of it comes with a high price tag. The U.S. has it's issues but living in a big country town with little stress and super fast wi-fi isn't that bad. When I can find a small city in Mexico that offers what a backwater like Kinston offers without costing too much(Ajijic), I'm there. Otherwise it's settling for a large, hectic city in Mexico, which isn't enough to bring me back. When Social Security kicks in we'll definitely look at Ajijic.


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## mickisue1

I'm sorry, but Golden Corral? Shudder.

I ate at one, once. And swore never to go to another. 

But, if you are happy for now with visits to MX, and you get to spend time with your family, AND your wife is happy, that sounds like enough happy to go around, don't you think?


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## grotton

Hound Dog said:


> Vantexan:
> 
> I suggest Metropolitan Guadalajara, which includes Zapopan, Tlaquepaque and lots of other places I won´t even start to go into and where there is fabulous shopping from expensive to discount stores of all kinds. It is the city you seek in Mexico. Forget Puebla which can´t hold a candle to Guadalajara for what you and your wife are seeking and, believe me, I know both cities. Rural North Carolina living with my mama (if she were still with us on the planet) would drive me insane and I say that as a rural Alabama boy. Get out of there ASAP.


Hound Dog has it right about the shopping in Guadalajara. Wow, it's amazing. My partner and I live in Chiapas but have family in Guadalajara/Zapopan. We were there visiting last weekend and blown away by the amazing stores, selection etc. Even the Walmart in Zapopan is so much better then ours. But the truth is Guadalajara is a big, complicated, and crowded city with really bad traffic. You have to know your way around to enjoy yourself there. And be flexible and patient.


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## citlali

Yes the traffic in Guadalajara can be a little crazy depending on where you live and an the hour you are driving. The first year we were here we would go to Guadalajara a lot just to know our way around and it is actually a pretty easy big city to get to know. We got lost a lot but after a year of learning it we had no problems finding our way around. Once you know the main arteries and have an idea of the way the city is laid out it is a prety easy city to get around.
The stores are amazing compared to Tuxtla or San Cristobal no question about it.


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## conklinwh

vantexan said:


> We drove through Pozos before leaving San Miguel. I was kind of taken with the idea of it. I'm not sure how Pozos would rate higher than Kinston. Kinston does have a Walmart, a Golden Corral, high speed, and I mean high speed, Internet, my particular favorite fast food, Bojangles. The Outer Banks and Wilmington aren't far. Greenville is nice and close by. Really not defending the town, just moved here because my mom and sister and nieces are here. My sister married a good guy and they have a farm with a ton of space for my old dogs to run around. Yes, I'd rather be in San Miguel, but we'll actually live cheaper here and my wife is happy. With my family here I am too. There is just alot more for me here than a place like Pozos. San Miguel does have alot going on but much of it comes with a high price tag. The U.S. has it's issues but living in a big country town with little stress and super fast wi-fi isn't that bad. When I can find a small city in Mexico that offers what a backwater like Kinston offers without costing too much(Ajijic), I'm there. Otherwise it's settling for a large, hectic city in Mexico, which isn't enough to bring me back. When Social Security kicks in we'll definitely look at Ajijic.


We moved to Pozos from San Miguel to get away from gringos. 5 miles from San Luis de la Paz at almost 100K people and 45min to San Miguel & Qro. New Bern maybe but Greenville, unless you like purple of course.
Good that there are places for everyone.
BTW, you are wrong about costs in San Miguel.


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## vantexan

conklinwh said:


> We moved to Pozos from San Miguel to get away from gringos. 5 miles from San Luis de la Paz at almost 100K people and 45min to San Miguel & Qro. New Bern maybe but Greenville, unless you like purple of course.
> Good that there are places for everyone.
> BTW, you are wrong about costs in San Miguel.


How so? We paid $450 a month for a very nice apartment but it wasn't big and it wasn't convenient for shopping without a car. Found some reasonably priced restaurants in town and the mercado was reasonably priced. But a larger place in the centro would have cost at least $700 a month and the sky was the limit from there. The Internet was ok, the tv in English limited. That doesn't mean it's a bad place, on the contrary it's a wonderful atmosphere. And yes we could have found a cheaper place to live in Mexican neighborhoods but Mexican homes in cheaper areas tend to be pretty basic. Kinston isn't where one goes to retire, it is what it is. But in Kinston we're paying $275 to live in a nice home, the Internet is blazing fast, we have DirecTV. There's a nice dog park, a 7 screen multiplex playing the latest, bigger theaters and all the stores in Greenville. And Greenville has shopping you'd have to go to a much bigger city in Mexico to find, with access on the internet to what you can't find in Greenville. And no, I don't spend that much, but it's nice to have easy access. And I'm not making an argument for staying in the States. Mexico has climates and scenery you'd have to pay huge amounts of money to enjoy in the U.S.. I love the food, the fresh produce. But before one starts poking fun at little country towns in the U.S. it should be pointed out even they have access to goods and services that most Mexicans don't have and can only dream of. And based on surveys I've seen the majority of Mexicans would very much like to have those goods and services, even if it meant living in the U.S..


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> But before one starts poking fun at little country towns in the U.S. it should be pointed out even they have access to goods and services that most Mexicans don't have and can only dream of. And based on surveys I've seen the majority of Mexicans would very much like to have those goods and services, even if it meant living in the U.S..


Oh, please. If I asked all of my Mexican friends if they would like to move to the States because the shopping is better there, the answer would be a big no!


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## lagoloo

Goods and services are the big deal in life? 

I keep meeting Mexicans who came "home" from the states when they could have stayed there in what they call "the cold El Norte".......and they weren't talking about the weather in California.


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## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> Oh, please. If I asked all of my Mexican friends if they would like to move to the States because the shopping is better there, the answer would be a big no!


But you live in Mexico City. Like asking a New Yorker if he'd move to Topeka. There was a survey out a couple of years ago posted on another Mexico forum, taken by Mexicans, that showed a majority of Mexicans would like to move to, or are actually planning to move to, the United States in the next 10 years. And that was after the big meltdown up here. Again, not trying to say one is better than the other, just pointing out that before making fun of a place like Kinston, even Kinston has goods and services that are hard to find outside of the largest cities in Mexico. And I doubt the Internet is as fast as what Suddenlink is offering anywhere in Mexico.


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> But you live in Mexico City. Like asking a New Yorker if he'd move to Topeka. There was a survey out a couple of years ago posted on another Mexico forum, taken by Mexicans, that showed a majority of Mexicans would like to move to, or are actually planning to move to, the United States in the next 10 years. And that was after the big meltdown up here. Again, not trying to say one is better than the other, just pointing out that before making fun of a place like Kinston, even Kinston has goods and services that are hard to find outside of the largest cities in Mexico. And I doubt the Internet is as fast as what Suddenlink is offering anywhere in Mexico.


I think I remember reading that survey when it first came out, but I felt then and feel now that the results didn't ring true. A majority of Mexicans would like to leave their homeland? I think not. I didn't make fun of Kinston. My point is that for me a good life consists more of living in a place with good shopping and super-fast internet. But that's just me. If you have found happiness in the place where you now find yourself, great. But I'll bet you're carefully planning a campaign to get you and your wife back to Mexico as soon as is feasible!


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## vantexan

lagoloo said:


> Goods and services are the big deal in life?
> 
> I keep meeting Mexicans who came "home" from the states when they could have stayed there in what they call "the cold El Norte".......and they weren't talking about the weather in California.


Just pointing out that there are pluses to living in the States too. One of them is that you can usually find what you want pretty quickly and often have a choice. Even in small places. It's not the be all and end all, but then living in many places in Mexico involves making compromises. Learning to do without or making do with less. As said, different strokes.


----------



## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Just pointing out that there are pluses to living in the States too. One of them is that you can usually find what you want pretty quickly and often have a choice. Even in small places. It's not the be all and end all, but then living in many places in Mexico involves making compromises. Learning to do without or making do with less. As said, different strokes.


But then, there are UPS, DHL, airplanes, cars, freights, etc.
No place has everything, including goos ole USA


----------



## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> Oh, please. If I asked all of my Mexican friends if they would like to move to the States because the shopping is better there, the answer would be a big no!


I agree, my answer is a BIG NO
I can always go shopping and sightseeing, then come back
I could move if I wanted to, but no thanks


----------



## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> How so? We paid $450 a month for a very nice apartment but it wasn't big and it wasn't convenient for shopping without a car. Found some reasonably priced restaurants in town and the mercado was reasonably priced. But a larger place in the centro would have cost at least $700 a month and the sky was the limit from there. The Internet was ok, the tv in English limited. That doesn't mean it's a bad place, on the contrary it's a wonderful atmosphere. And yes we could have found a cheaper place to live in Mexican neighborhoods but Mexican homes in cheaper areas tend to be pretty basic. Kinston isn't where one goes to retire, it is what it is. But in Kinston we're paying $275 to live in a nice home, the Internet is blazing fast, we have DirecTV. There's a nice dog park, a 7 screen multiplex playing the latest, bigger theaters and all the stores in Greenville. And Greenville has shopping you'd have to go to a much bigger city in Mexico to find, with access on the internet to what you can't find in Greenville. And no, I don't spend that much, but it's nice to have easy access. And I'm not making an argument for staying in the States. Mexico has climates and scenery you'd have to pay huge amounts of money to enjoy in the U.S.. I love the food, the fresh produce. But before one starts poking fun at little country towns in the U.S. it should be pointed out even they have access to goods and services that most Mexicans don't have and can only dream of. And based on surveys I've seen the majority of Mexicans would very much like to have those goods and services, even if it meant living in the U.S..


I think you have it wrong there; most Mexicans do not DREAM about having things from the US, most Mexicans live in Mexico and are not planning to move north, don't dream about it and don't care about what happens there.
Those surveys you have seen are wrong, based on 120,000,000 Mexicans live in Mexico


----------



## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Just pointing out that there are pluses to living in the States too. One of them is that you can usually find what you want pretty quickly and often have a choice. Even in small places. It's not the be all and end all, but then living in many places in Mexico involves making compromises. Learning to do without or making do with less. As said, different strokes.


I'm a Mexican, living in Mexico, and I have not learned how to live without or making do with less.

I really think it's just about the same in every country, it all depends on your capacities
I've seen homeless people everywhere, even in the US, where there are many choices


----------



## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I'm a Mexican, living in Mexico, and I have not learned how to live without or making do with less.
> 
> I really think it's just about the same in every country, it all depends on your capacities
> I've seen homeless people everywhere, even in the US, where there are many choices


Why so defensive? You sound like me, LOL! I said in a post we were going back to the States because my wife didn't like San Miguel and was really homesick for the States. Had someone say I should consider getting another wife. Had a number of people say how horrendous life in small town North Carolina and the South in general is. I even said that a few years in Kinston ought to convince her to reconsider Mexico. Then I arrived here. It's nothing special but it's not that bad. I had been to Goldsboro when my sister lived there but this is my first visit to Kinston. We're in a nice home, my sister is a block away in a very nice home. Traffic is light, people are very relaxed and friendly. There's a nice dog park with a walking track around it. My intent was never to say the U.S. is better. Just pointing out that Mexico isn't automatically better. It is frustrating that one can't live there in a nice smaller town with a nice year'round climate and not be able to enjoy some of the things one takes for granted, like a well stocked Walmart, a Walgreens, a multiplex theater. I use those as examples, not focused on them specifically. San Miguel had plenty enough for me, I don't need alot. But my wife missed the States and since coming back I realized that the conveniences are nice. I want the climate, the scenery, and the lower costs that make retirement on my pension possible. But the closest thing to a smaller town with all the conveniences in Mexico appears to be the Ajijic area. Otherwise I've got to be in a bigger place. San Miguel isn't too big in my book but what other places are there in that size range that offer as much? With a good climate? Just seems one must settle for a large urban environment or be willing to travel to one on occasion. I've lived in Seattle and in the NYC metro area. Interesting to visit, but I don't care to live in big cities.


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I think you have it wrong there; most Mexicans do not DREAM about having things from the US, most Mexicans live in Mexico and are not planning to move north, don't dream about it and don't care about what happens there.
> Those surveys you have seen are wrong, based on 120,000,000 Mexicans live in Mexico


I'm betting most Mexicans want to stay in Mexico, but want a country with better opportunities and better pay, more like the U.S. in that regard.


----------



## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Why so defensive? You sound like me, LOL! I said in a post we were going back to the States because my wife didn't like San Miguel and was really homesick for the States. Had someone say I should consider getting another wife. Had a number of people say how horrendous life in small town North Carolina and the South in general is. I even said that a few years in Kinston ought to convince her to reconsider Mexico. Then I arrived here. It's nothing special but it's not that bad. I had been to Goldsboro when my sister lived there but this is my first visit to Kinston. We're in a nice home, my sister is a block away in a very nice home. Traffic is light, people are very relaxed and friendly. There's a nice dog park with a walking track around it. My intent was never to say the U.S. is better. Just pointing out that Mexico isn't automatically better. It is frustrating that one can't live there in a nice smaller town with a nice year'round climate and not be able to enjoy some of the things one takes for granted, like a well stocked Walmart, a Walgreens, a multiplex theater. I use those as examples, not focused on them specifically. San Miguel had plenty enough for me, I don't need alot. But my wife missed the States and since coming back I realized that the conveniences are nice. I want the climate, the scenery, and the lower costs that make retirement on my pension possible. But the closest thing to a smaller town with all the conveniences in Mexico appears to be the Ajijic area. Otherwise I've got to be in a bigger place. San Miguel isn't too big in my book but what other places are there in that size range that offer as much? With a good climate? Just seems one must settle for a large urban environment or be willing to travel to one on occasion. I've lived in Seattle and in the NYC metro area. Interesting to visit, but I don't care to live in big cities.


I'm not trying to be defensive here, just clarifying what was said about Mexicans dreaming of things in the US, and learning to do without 

I'm so glad that you are enjoying it where you are now


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## kito1

Since I grew up in Eastern NC, I get to make fun of it... :tongue: 

I occasionally go back and visit family who still live there, and each time I am so glad I am only visiting. Yet, others have lived there all their lives and are quite content there. Most people there look at me as if I have 3 heads for my love of travel as many have never been farther than the "coast" and have no desire to go anywhere else. However, many of the people of NC are the salt of the earth, they are some really GOOD people there. 

OK, conveniences are nice. I do admit when I am in the states I LOVE my lean cuisine and stouffer's frozen dinners, something I can't get at the incredible quantity anywhere else. But otherwise, I feel like an outsider in the USA these days and can't imagine living there again permanently, but I have been gone for the states off and on since I was 18, much different than someone who hasn't traveled much and then leaves when they are well past there young adult years. This would have to be quite a shock I can imagine.

I have a feeling your wife didn't really WANT to live outside the states and was perhaps going along to make you happy. (hey, I give her credit at least she tried it) But once she was in Mexico, she problably realized she would be miserable there, and if she was miserable, you would probably be too. If she is happy and satisfied in Kinston then you will probably be a happier man there, than if you were in Mexico with an unhappy wife. 

Lastly, sometimes dreams are better than the reality, and perhaps the "dream" of Mexico would not have lived up to the reality of it for you either.

I remember talking via PM's with a very nice lady late last year who had a young son and she wanted to move to Mexico. She came down to San Miguel and left after a week or so because she felt men were staring at her. The reality of Mexico was different than her "dream" of Mexico. If men looking at her bothered her so much, I can't imagine how she would have dealt with the REAL day to day challenges of living here. It can be quite frustrating at times to live in a manana culture. Mexico is NOT for everyone, in fact I think it is safe to say that Mexico is NOT for most people. Better to know that at the beginning rather than after you buy a house or bring down a bunch of stuff or cut too many ties back home in some other regard. 

Mexico is FAR from perfect.... As for places to live, there are always going to be trade-offs, you just have to find a place that has more good than bad, for you and your wife. Perhaps you and your wife will be happy as clams in Kinston close to family and all the conveniences that come with living in the states. For many, heck most, those things are very important, especially if that is what you know and are comfortable with.


----------



## Isla Verde

kito1 said:


> OK, conveniences are nice. I do admit when I am in the states I LOVE my lean cuisine and stouffer's frozen dinners, something I can't get at the incredible quantity anywhere else. But otherwise, I feel like an outsider in the USA these days and can't imagine living there again permanently, but I have been gone for the states off and on since I was 18, much different than someone who hasn't traveled much and then leaves when they are well past there young adult years. This would have to be quite a shock I can imagine.


I used to love Stouffer's frozen chicken pies when I lived in the States, but I haven't thought about them in years. Thanks for the memory! When I go back for a visit to the US (as I did a few weeks ago), I don't feel like an outsider, but I am always happy to come "home" again. 

I have been living in and out of the States for years, beginning in 1966, when I spent a summer studying in Mexico City. All of the time I've spent living abroad plus the fact that I started out in life as a Spanish major have given me invaluable linguistic skills and cultural knowledge that have made my final move to Mexico fairly seamless. I've been lucky, I know!


----------



## Anonimo

*Fast is not always best*



vantexan said:


> But you live in Mexico City. Like asking a New Yorker if he'd move to Topeka. There was a survey out a couple of years ago posted on another Mexico forum, taken by Mexicans, that showed a majority of Mexicans would like to move to, or are actually planning to move to, the United States in the next 10 years. And that was after the big meltdown up here. Again, not trying to say one is better than the other, just pointing out that before making fun of a place like Kinston, even Kinston has goods and services that are hard to find outside of the largest cities in Mexico. And I doubt the Internet is as fast as what Suddenlink is offering anywhere in Mexico.


We live on a very small ranching community outside of Pátzcuaro. It's so small, that almost all the inhabitants are from 3-4 families, and closely interrelated. We are the only Norteamericanos here at this time. There are no high speed internet lines out here; in fact, we don't even have a landline phone. Our Internet feed is via radio-microwaves, transmitted for a tower some 10 kilometers away. We can do Internet. It just takes a little longer for the web pages to load. We got used to the slow, and often totally dysfunctional connection. Over time it got better and better, but never what could be called "high speed"

But, you know what? We knew that was how it was when we came here over 7 years ago, We didn't decide to live here on the basis of the quality of the Internet connection. (Yes, Internet is a very important aspect of our lives)

We came and rented this house because we loved it; the rent was very low for what we got. Its location is beautiful. The landlords are honest, decent and make sure the maintenance is kept up. There is privacy, the area is tranquil compared to even Pátzcuaro Centro, let alone hectic Morelia. The neighbors are friendly. We invite each other to comidas and fiestas (although, I'll admit, no where as much as we did in our first years.) We can't possibly attend all the fiestas on the "mole circuit".But it's nice to be invited.

That is us. We are not big shoppers, but I will admit to a serious Costco habit. Our nearest Costco is on the outskirts of Morelia, 45 minutes from our house. That, to us, is a good distance between our state capital and our home in the countryside.

Down sides: there are few decent restaurants in the Pátzcuaro area. We have a small handful of favorites. If we want cultural events (we are not attracted much to those), there are plenty in Pátzcuaro and even more in Morelia.

We are accustomed to living without tv. When we visit the States, having the TV on nearly nonstop in my mother and sister's house is seldom more a constant background irritation to me. 

Agreed: cobblestone streets, irregular sidewalks are a hazard. I have tripped and fallen 3 time, with painful injuries. After a while, you become more observant and "Walk Different".

Time, and especially patience, are necessities to adapt to life in Mexico. It has probably already been said, but when you live here, it's not like being on vacation. There are numerous downsides: a convoluted and often surrealistic bureaucracy to contend with, not just in government, but in banks, and even at times in pharmacies. The roadways are sometimes hazardous. And always, of course, expect things to lake longer. With uncommon exceptions, Mexico is not a "get it done right now" culture.

With "quaint" and picturesque" come cobblestone streets, sprained ankles and occasional falls.

Sorry, Vantexan, I don't mean to sound harsh, but 2 weeks or whatever short time you spent in Mexico on "tryout" is hardly enough to begin to get your bearings.

Your Mexico retirement life dream had the deck stacked against it from the start: your wife had not bought into the dream as had you.

I offer you my best wishes for your life in Kinton. When both you and your wife are committed to making the Mexico dream a reality, then, perhaps, it will come true.


----------



## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> I'm betting most Mexicans want to stay in Mexico, but want a country with better opportunities and better pay, more like the U.S. in that regard.


Of course we want better opportunities and better pay, who doesn't? Germans do, everyone, Americans as well, but most Mexicans do not even think about moving out of the Country, we want all that HERE, in Mexico. The US, does not have so many opportunities as advertised, not everyone is living the american dream, I know that as a fact

Life in the US is so much different, I don't even want to make a list of what Mexicans dislike about the US


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Life in the US is so much different, I don't even want to make a list of what Mexicans dislike about the US


For instance . . . ?


----------



## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> For instance . . . ?[/QUOTE
> Good morning Isla!
> 
> You want to make "manita de puerco on me"?
> 
> For instance, food, different familiar customs


----------



## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> Of course we want better opportunities and better pay, who doesn't? Germans do, everyone, Americans as well, but most Mexicans do not even think about moving out of the Country, we want all that HERE, in Mexico. The US, does not have so many opportunities as advertised, not everyone is living the american dream, I know that as a fact
> 
> Life in the US is so much different, I don't even want to make a list of what Mexicans dislike about the US


Well Gary it sounds like I said exactly what you just did. The difference is Americans living in Mexico usually bring their income with them. Mexicans living in the U.S. go there seeking opportunities to make money. That's what America is about, opportunity. It's not what it was and future generations may find themselves working until they drop without benefit of pensions and possibly Social Security. But the poverty level is much less than Mexico, and those that aren't impoverished tend to have a higher standard of living than on average in Mexico. I'm only going on surveys taken in Mexico, neither you or I have the ability to ask a large enough sampling if they would want to head to El Norte or not. And I worked with Mexicans and Mexican-Americans on the border and I know first hand what many Mexicans think of Anglos. Didn't stop me from trying to move there. As a Jamaican friend once told me, the U.S. is a great place for jobs but not for living. I want a slower pace. But not really seeing that on the highways in big cities. Extremely frenetic. I really don't want to deal with that when we want to go out for the day. Who does?


----------



## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Well Gary it sounds like I said exactly what you just did. The difference is Americans living in Mexico usually bring their income with them. Mexicans living in the U.S. go there seeking opportunities to make money. That's what America is about, opportunity. It's not what it was and future generations may find themselves working until they drop without benefit of pensions and possibly Social Security. But the poverty level is much less than Mexico, and those that aren't impoverished tend to have a higher standard of living than on average in Mexico. I'm only going on surveys taken in Mexico, neither you or I have the ability to ask a large enough sampling if they would want to head to El Norte or not. And I worked with Mexicans and Mexican-Americans on the border and I know first hand what many Mexicans think of Anglos. Didn't stop me from trying to move there. As a Jamaican friend once told me, the U.S. is a great place for jobs but not for living. I want a slower pace. But not really seeing that on the highways in big cities. Extremely frenetic. I really don't want to deal with that when we want to go out for the day. Who does?


We are in an agreement there!
Also,when we talk about "Mexicans" that go abroad looking for better paid jobs, we are generally talking about people that, disgracefully, have NOTHING in Mexico, that's why they take so many chances and even risk their lives for a chance.
But they are NOT, by any means, the majority of Mexicans. My "connacionales" that emigrate don't have any jobs, culture…nothing
And, as you said, many times, they don't even like being there if it wasn't for the money


----------



## vantexan

Anonimo said:


> We live on a very small ranching community outside of Pátzcuaro. It's so small, that almost all the inhabitants are from 3-4 families, and closely interrelated. We are the only Norteamericanos here at this time. There are no high speed internet lines out here; in fact, we don't even have a landline phone. Our Internet feed is via radio-microwaves, transmitted for a tower some 10 kilometers away. We can do Internet. It just takes a little longer for the web pages to load. We got used to the slow, and often totally dysfunctional connection. Over time it got better and better, but never what could be called "high speed"
> 
> But, you know what? We knew that was how it was when we came here over 7 years ago, We didn't decide to live here on the basis of the quality of the Internet connection. (Yes, Internet is a very important aspect of our lives)
> 
> We came and rented this house because we loved it; the rent was very low for what we got. Its location is beautiful. The landlords are honest, decent and make sure the maintenance is kept up. There is privacy, the area is tranquil compared to even Pátzcuaro Centro, let alone hectic Morelia. The neighbors are friendly. We invite each other to comidas and fiestas (although, I'll admit, no where as much as we did in our first years.) We can't possibly attend all the fiestas on the "mole circuit".But it's nice to be invited.
> 
> That is us. We are not big shoppers, but I will admit to a serious Costco habit. Our nearest Costco is on the outskirts of Morelia, 45 minutes from our house. That, to us, is a good distance between our state capital and our home in the countryside.
> 
> Down sides: there are few decent restaurants in the Pátzcuaro area. We have a small handful of favorites. If we want cultural events (we are not attracted much to those), there are plenty in Pátzcuaro and even more in Morelia.
> 
> We are accustomed to living without tv. When we visit the States, having the TV on nearly nonstop in my mother and sister's house is seldom more a constant background irritation to me.
> 
> Agreed: cobblestone streets, irregular sidewalks are a hazard. I have tripped and fallen 3 time, with painful injuries. After a while, you become more observant and "Walk Different".
> 
> Time, and especially patience, are necessities to adapt to life in Mexico. It has probably already been said, but when you live here, it's not like being on vacation. There are numerous downsides: a convoluted and often surrealistic bureaucracy to contend with, not just in government, but in banks, and even at times in pharmacies. The roadways are sometimes hazardous. And always, of course, expect things to lake longer. With uncommon exceptions, Mexico is not a "get it done right now" culture.
> 
> With "quaint" and picturesque" come cobblestone streets, sprained ankles and occasional falls.
> 
> Sorry, Vantexan, I don't mean to sound harsh, but 2 weeks or whatever short time you spent in Mexico on "tryout" is hardly enough to begin to get your bearings.
> 
> Your Mexico retirement life dream had the deck stacked against it from the start: your wife had not bought into the dream as had you.
> 
> I offer you my best wishes for your life in Kinton. When both you and your wife are committed to making the Mexico dream a reality, then, perhaps, it will come true.


You're right, we didn't give it long enough, which I also told her. She was worried about violence but admitted it was much safer than she had thought. She isn't adverse to coming back someday. And we even talked about Colombia last night. Might try there after the dogs pass and we can fly down.


----------



## Hound Dog

She is worried about violence in Mexico and wants to go to Colombia?? Colombia is way better than it used to be but do you think all the bad guys were killed over there? Do you think there is no more drug trade from there? I wonder where all the coke coming through here is coming from??

DO not believe everything you read on the internet or in the papers.

Citlali not Houndog


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> You're right, we didn't give it long enough, which I also told her. She was worried about violence but admitted it was much safer than she had thought. She isn't adverse to coming back someday. And we even talked about Colombia last night. Might try there after the dogs pass and we can fly down.


I believe you mentioned in a previous post that one reason your wife doesn't want to live in Mexico is because she'd be so far from her family. Well, living in Colombia would definitely exacerbate that problem, don't you think?


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## kcowan

We have the best of both worlds. We spend 7+ months in Mexico and then the rest in Vancouver/Europe. We are getting ready to fly down on Saturday. We look forward to the things we love about Mexico. Celebrations for any reason. Closeness of family values. Chaos! Reacquainting ourselves with friends and neighbors.

At the end of May, we will again appreciate the order, paved streets, shopping choices. And the cycle will repeat.


----------



## GARYJ65

kcowan said:


> We have the best of both worlds. We spend 7+ months in Mexico and then the rest in Vancouver/Europe. We are getting ready to fly down on Saturday. We look forward to the things we love about Mexico. Celebrations for any reason. Closeness of family values. Chaos! Reacquainting ourselves with friends and neighbors.
> 
> At the end of May, we will again appreciate the order, paved streets, shopping choices. And the cycle will repeat.


Are you implying that in Mexico we have...chaos, no pavement, no shopping choices?
wow


----------



## kcowan

GARYJ65 said:


> Are you implying that in Mexico we have...chaos, no pavement, no shopping choices?
> wow


Have you ever been to Puerto Vallarta? There are rockets that are set off to announce church services, usually between 5 and 6 am, for special events. Our cats think that is chaos.

Pavement? No. Cobblestones? Yes.

Shopping choices? No way. Nothing like up north. Every year we bring back things that we cannot buy in PV. Maybe we could get them in Guadalajara. But that is 4.5 hours away.

I bet we could get lots more stuff in DF. It is what it is. Plus we don't live to shop!


----------



## vantexan

Hound Dog said:


> She is worried about violence in Mexico and wants to go to Colombia?? Colombia is way better than it used to be but do you think all the bad guys were killed over there? Do you think there is no more drug trade from there? I wonder where all the coke coming through here is coming from??
> 
> DO not believe everything you read on the internet or in the papers.
> 
> Citlali not Houndog


Colombia has exploded with growth since the former President Uribe cleaned it up. It's not perfect, no place is, but the cartel activity these days is in Mexico. Colombia just hasn't seen the violence in recent years that Mexico has, and everyone here says stay out of the drug trade and certain parts of the country and Mexico is pretty safe. Same pretty much applies to Colombia. Medellin, the country's second city, has become a very liveable place with huge malls stocked with everything, an elevated train system, and a springlike climate. They're very capitalistic and pro-America, which used to give Hugo Chavez fits. If anything it may be too expensive for us. But it's a place worth investigating, as it ticks off the boxes she's interested in.


----------



## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> I believe you mentioned in a previous post that one reason your wife doesn't want to live in Mexico is because she'd be so far from her family. Well, living in Colombia would definitely exacerbate that problem, don't you think?


We wouldn't have the car in Colombia, and the discounters Spirit and Jet Blue fly to Medellin from Ft. Lauderdale. We'd be at her daughter's in Kansas City before we could even arrive at the border from the interior of Mexico. We won't leave Kinston until the dogs pass away, so we'll have a few years to check out a few places on quick trips.


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## kcowan

If you are evaluating anyplace you can fly to, your options open up substantially. But I think the question went deeper than that.


----------



## citlali

Well you can fly in and out of Mexico and not have a car down here either . Not comparing apples to apples.
Flying is a wonderful idea, I can go home in a mere 12 hours but I do not.Why?Ccost. 
Try that a few times a year and see what happens to you budget..As you are retire your income really does not keep up with price increases so for some people what was affordable when they first retire is not any longer 10 years later.


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## Hound Dog

_


kcowan said:



Have you ever been to Puerto Vallarta? There are rockets that are set off to announce church services, usually between 5 and 6 am, for special events. Our cats think that is chaos.

Pavement? No. Cobblestones? Yes.

Shopping choices? No way. Nothing like up north. Every year we bring back things that we cannot buy in PV. Maybe we could get them in Guadalajara. But that is 4.5 hours away.

I bet we could get lots more stuff in DF. It is what it is. Plus we don't live to shop![/QUOTE

Click to expand...

_


kcowan said:


> ]
> 
> I have been to Puerto Vallarta a few times but, in my experience, fireworks are set off all over Mexico starting often at about 5:00AM and, in the historic center of San Cristóbal de Las Casas where we live several months each year, every barrio has its celebrations of various kinds, the rockets can go on incessantly at times. We live so close to the main plaza of the Del Cerrillo Barrio, that we periodically have to clean the spent rocket casings from the roof and repair the damage they have done. As for our dogs, some of whom panic during these events, thinking the town is chaotic, the rockets help us bond with them as they seek our protection by embracing us. It´s a little noisy but that´s OK. LIving in a town where there are constant celebrations going on can be a kick. To each hs own.
> 
> We also live at Lake Chapala where the shopping choices both at the lake and in nearby Guadalajara are excellent so, every time we drive from Lake Chapala to San Cristóbal, our car carries some processed food items from the lake area that are not available in Chiapas but, then, there are many food items available in San Cristóbal not as readily availale at the lake including a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables grown in nearby milpas surrounding the city and delivered every day for sale at the huge indigenous market nearby. One can also buy live chickens and pigs among other farm animals there but we have yet to do that.
> 
> Since we have only made two very brief trips back "up north" in the past 13 years, we can´t speak of the shopping opportunities up there but, as we visit France periodically to visit relatives, we do bring some specialty food items back to Mexico from there but we have found no need to leave Mexico for all of our shopping needs including not only food and clothing items but all major appliances including such big ticket items as computers and flat screen televisions. As for France, when we go there, the prices on food and consumer goods plus personal taxes are so outrageously high that we thank God we did not elect to rertire there rather than Mexico back in 2001.


----------



## vantexan

citlali said:


> Well you can fly in and out of Mexico and not have a car down here either . Not comparing apples to apples.
> Flying is a wonderful idea, I can go home in a mere 12 hours but I do not.Why?Ccost.
> Try that a few times a year and see what happens to you budget..As you are retire your income really does not keep up with price increases so for some people what was affordable when they first retire is not any longer 10 years later.


The problem is with the new financial requirements we can't qualify for permanent residency until Social Security starts. So to have a car in Mexico on a TIP means having to drive it out every 6 months. And she wants to have a car. So no flying for us if we're in Mexico. She is willing to give Colombia a try without a car though.


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> The problem is with the new financial requirements we can't qualify for permanent residency until Social Security starts. So to have a car in Mexico on a TIP means having to drive it out every 6 months. And she wants to have a car. So no flying for us if we're in Mexico. She is willing to give Colombia a try without a car though.


I hope you won't decide to move to Colombia, without having spent a loooong vacation there.


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## citlali

You can take buses to the border and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than driving, actually some flights are very cheap right now if you take Volaris or Vivaaerobus and I heard some others it is cheaper to fly than to drive, the tolls are expensive in Mexico. 
For exemple it cost us 3000 pesos to go to Chiapas and $1000 pesos to fly if you get the right flight and 1200 pesos ny bus...but this things come and go so it is difficult to say what it will be next year.
I wonder why she could live without a car in Colombia and not in Mexico? 
Well if you go to Colombia better speak Spansih because I heard that you are awfully isolated if you do not speak the language.


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## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> I hope you won't decide to move to Colombia, without having spent a loooong vacation there.


It doesn't get the expat droves other countries get due to higher costs and past reputation. But it's alot more developed than people realize. 450 store malls with all the American stores, great Internet, modern multiplex theaters, beautiful cities. 5 U.S. airlines fly into Medellin so there must be Americans traveling there, and there are expat forums about it. There's a region of the country that's predominantly Caucasian with Medellin at it's center. Might not matter to some but if you want to be in an area where you don't stick out it's alot closer than Argentina.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> You can take buses to the border and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than driving, actually some flights are very cheap right now if you take Volaris or Vivaaerobus and I heard some others it is cheaper to fly than to drive, the tolls are expensive in Mexico.
> For exemple it cost us 3000 pesos to go to Chiapas and $1000 pesos to fly if you get the right flight and 1200 pesos ny bus...but this things come and go so it is difficult to say what it will be next year.
> I wonder why she could live without a car in Colombia and not in Mexico?
> Well if you go to Colombia better speak Spansih because I heard that you are awfully isolated if you do not speak the language.


She has a nice Honda and wanted to keep it. But she wasn't thrilled with all the red tape and sees the pluses of doing without a car. Yes we could fly to Mexico instead of Colombia or elsewhere but she wants great shopping. We'll keep working on the Spanish.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> It doesn't get the expat droves other countries get due to higher costs and past reputation. But it's alot more developed than people realize. 450 store malls with all the American stores, great Internet, modern multiplex theaters, beautiful cities. 5 U.S. airlines fly into Medellin so there must be Americans traveling there, and there are expat forums about it. There's a region of the country that's predominantly Caucasian with Medellin at it's center. Might not matter to some but if you want to be in an area where you don't stick out it's alot closer than Argentina.


I have to defend my Country here! 
Mexico has all that and more! Also, is much larger country with a diversity of...everything!
And closer to the US
What was that about Argentina?


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## GARYJ65

citlali said:


> You can take buses to the border and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than driving, actually some flights are very cheap right now if you take Volaris or Vivaaerobus and I heard some others it is cheaper to fly than to drive, the tolls are expensive in Mexico. For exemple it cost us 3000 pesos to go to Chiapas and $1000 pesos to fly if you get the right flight and 1200 pesos ny bus...but this things come and go so it is difficult to say what it will be next year. I wonder why she could live without a car in Colombia and not in Mexico? Well if you go to Colombia better speak Spansih because I heard that you are awfully isolated if you do not speak the language.


Isn't that the same case for Mexico?
With language I mean, as far as numbers, only 5 % of Mexicans speak English, the rest have notions and try hard to comunicate, but tome, it seems to be a very isolated scenario for only English speaking expats


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## kito1

Have you even visited Colombia or are you just reading promotional material? I have spent time in Colombia and I can tell you that it's a nice enough country but.... come on, if she can't hack Mexico she will be really unhappy in Colombia. I think your wife did not give Mexico a chance at all and I wouldn't waste your time looking at any other country quite frankly. Mexico is a pretty easy transition country unlike many Latin American countries. Colombia would be way way way down on my list for someone who hasn't lived outside the USA before.

If I was in your shoes I try to find a nice comfy place in the USA to live and just try to enjoy regular vacations in Latin America. Living in a strange new land is not for everyone and just from what I have read on this thread I think your wife is probably one of them. But hey, I don't really know you at all, it's your life and you should do whatever makes you happy.


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## Hound Dog

_


vantexan said:



It doesn't get the expat droves other countries get due to higher costs and past reputation. But it's alot more developed than people realize. 450 store malls with all the American stores, great Internet, modern multiplex theaters, beautiful cities. 5 U.S. airlines fly into Medellin so there must be Americans traveling there, and there are expat forums about it. There's a region of the country that's predominantly Caucasian with Medellin at it's center. Might not matter to some but if you want to be in an area where you don't stick out it's alot closer than Argentina.

Click to expand...

_Oops! Vantexan; for a minute there I thought you were describing Guadalajara, a beautiful city (with flaws like all human gatherings including Medellin and Kinston) with exclusive malls filled with great luxurious stores whether of U.S. or Mexican or other origin, countless modern multiplex theaters of the latest design, some great restaurants, cultural activities beyond easy description and an extraordinarily pleasant and sunny climate at 5,000 feet . That city with an estimated population of at least 4,000,000 people in the metroplitan area, may have lots of expats but they are not a significant factor there at all and you will never run into one unless you want to and seek them out. There are direct flights to many U.S.cities all over the country and other domestic and international destnations. When we fly to Paris, as we occasionally do to visit family, we go nonstop from Mexico Cirty, a one hour flight from Guadalajara. 

By the way, if you are seeking what you call "Caucasions", stick to Kinston but I really don´t know why you are worried about "stick(ing) out" in Mexico. As an Anglo from Alabama with British ancestry married to a Basquez from Paris but with extended family roots from all over France, we stick out in all of Mexico but human diversity is what makes a place like San Cristóbal de Las Casas and many other Mexican cities so fascinating to us. Now, the so-called "Lakeside" community that is concentrated in a small zone adjacent to part of Lake Chapala´s North Shore is the place for you if you are seeking to be among "Caucasions" scattered about all over the place. Kinston with palm trees and with a WalMart as well. but no Burrger King, dammit. Fortunately, Guadalajara is full of Burger Kings which are quite popular with Tapatios so, where I need a Whopper with Cheese, I can always get my fix just a few kilometers away from home when we are at the lake. 

I like to call "Lakeside" Peoria Upon Sump but it is a very nice place to live with a climate so pleasant it´s hard to believe. If you are a dog lover and are lookng for endless deserted beaches upon which to run your pooches off leash, this is the place for you and you can ignore all those "Caucasions" if you wish - I know I do.


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## vantexan

Hound Dog said:


> Oops! Vantexan; for a minute there I thought you were describing Guadalajara, a beautiful city (with flaws like all human gatherings including Medellin and Kinston) with exclusive malls filled with great luxurious stores whether of U.S. or Mexican or other origin, countless modern multiplex theaters of the latest design, some great restaurants, cultural activities beyond easy description and an extraordinarily pleasant and sunny climate at 5,000 feet . That city with an estimated population of at least 4,000,000 people in the metroplitan area, may have lots of expats but they are not a significant factor there at all and you will never run into one unless you want to and seek them out. There are direct flights to many U.S.cities all over the country and other domestic and international destnations. When we fly to Paris, as we occasionally do to visit family, we go nonstop from Mexico Cirty, a one hour flight from Guadalajara.
> 
> By the way, if you are seeking what you call "Caucasions", stick to Kinston but I really don´t know why you are worried about "stick(ing) out" in Mexico. As an Anglo from Alabama with British ancestry married to a Basquez from Paris but with extended family roots from all over France, we stick out in all of Mexico but human diversity is what makes a place like San Cristóbal de Las Casas and many other Mexican cities so fascinating to us. Now, the so-called "Lakeside" community that is concentrated in a small zone adjacent to part of Lake Chapala´s North Shore is the place for you if you are seeking to be among "Caucasions" scattered about all over the place. Kinston with palm trees and with a WalMart as well. but no Burrger King, dammit. Fortunately, Guadalajara is full of Burger Kings which are quite popular with Tapatios so, where I need a Whopper with Cheese, I can always get my fix just a few kilometers away from home when we are at the lake.
> 
> I like to call "Lakeside" Peoria Upon Sump but it is a very nice place to live with a climate so pleasant it´s hard to believe. If you are a dog lover and are lookng for endless deserted beaches upon which to run your pooches off leash, this is the place for you and you can ignore all those "Caucasions" if you wish - I know I do.


Not sure why you are quoting it with an o as I spelled it with an a. I think a major reason people live in places like the Chapala area is that they are amongst people that look like them. It's easier to just go about your business and not feel like you stand out. If that's important to some then Colombia has a region that's primarily white where no one automatically assumes you're a rich ******. Much like being in Argentina which is mostly white. I don't want to get into the whole race issue, not a big deal, just might appeal to some. 

Medellin has Spirit and Jet Blue flying to them. They are cheap enough to make it a very attractive alternative to living in Mexico. Chances are we'll end up in the Chapala area but we'll look around over the next few years.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Not sure why you are quoting it with an o as I spelled it with an a. I think a major reason people live in places like the Chapala area is that they are amongst people that look like them. It's easier to just go about your business and not feel like you stand out. If that's important to some then Colombia has a region that's primarily white where no one automatically assumes you're a rich ******. Much like being in Argentina which is mostly white. I don't want to get into the whole race issue, not a big deal, just might appeal to some.
> 
> Medellin has Spirit and Jet Blue flying to them. They are cheap enough to make it a very attractive alternative to living in Mexico. Chances are we'll end up in the Chapala area but we'll look around over the next few years.


Dear Vantexan, I think you are now dreaming too much, or as we say here, "te estás haciendo afuera de la basinica", my advice, as many have already told you one way or another, is to bite the bullet and just move on, you are not going to live in Mexico or any other Country.
Now you want to blend in with the population based on your skin color, I don't think you have Italian or Spaniard ancestry, nor you speak any Spanish, nor lunfardo, therefore you will not pass as one of the guys anywhere outside the US.
You may as well keep dreaming on, or why don't you think about East L.A., Florida, or somewhere within the US where you might enjoy some latin american company, then again, you still don't speak the language and you would have to convince your wife first.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=vantexan;2172449]Not sure why you are quoting it with an o as I spelled it with an a. I think a major reason people live in places like the Chapala area is that they are amongst people that look like them. It's easier to just go about your business and not feel like you stand out..... _

I guess I was thinking of "caucasoid" since we were writing about pink people.

You seem to have a hang-up about standing out by living among others who do not look like you but, if I were you I would not interpret that ethnocentrism, which all humans suffer from to some extent, as a reason so many, mostly white people from farther north in North America are attracted to the Lake Chapala area. Rather, the original reason that exodus started many years ago was because the area was an inexpensive artists colony with a bohemian touch many struggling artists found attractive and, I understand there was a tolerant attitude toward drugs and sex to be experienced in those days for those emigrating from more prudent societies to what was then the Mexican outback. A number of years later the foreign colony became more of a foreign retirement magnet primarily because it was dirt cheap in comparison to the northern areas from whence the retirees came and the climate was perfect for us old retired goobers with weather that was rarely even remotely too hot or too cold with almost constant sunshine. I think you have it backwards. People of like complexion and ethnic background and the financial capacity to move to Mexico don´t move down here necessarily to be around their own kind; it´s just that they are comng here _despite_ the fact that the area is overrun with their own kind because it beats the hell out of the lands they left - otherwise they would all have moved to Des Moines.


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## RVGRINGO

It would appear, as this thread evolves, that Van has created a dream that bears little resemblance to the reality of living full time in Mexico, or any other unfamiliar part of the world. The wife seems obsessed with shopping, which I find hard to resolve in a world which has major shopping centers everywhere; many far nicer than those found in most of the USA. However, if one has not experienced living outside of the USA in their younger days, it may actually be difficult for them to adjust and to appreciate that there are millions, even billions, on this planet with no particular desire to even visit the USA. After all, most US residents seldom meet a foreign tourist and when they do, they are often not very nice to them. Here in Mexico, we feel the warmth and the welcome of more than just the sunshine, but only when it is reciprocal. The ugliness of racism seldom raises its head.


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## vantexan

RVGRINGO said:


> It would appear, as this thread evolves, that Van has created a dream that bears little resemblance to the reality of living full time in Mexico, or any other unfamiliar part of the world. The wife seems obsessed with shopping, which I find hard to resolve in a world which has major shopping centers everywhere; many far nicer than those found in most of the USA. However, if one has not experienced living outside of the USA in their younger days, it may actually be difficult for them to adjust and to appreciate that there are millions, even billions, on this planet with no particular desire to even visit the USA. After all, most US residents seldom meet a foreign tourist and when they do, they are often not very nice to them. Here in Mexico, we feel the warmth and the welcome of more than just the sunshine, but only when it is reciprocal. The ugliness of racism seldom raises its head.


And I think you and Hound Dog are seeing bogeymen. I was perfectly happy in San Miguel, why wouldn't I be? But I also think it's not realistic to think there's no racism in Mexico as their society is very stratified with the indigenous on the lowest rungs. It wasn't for nothing that the Zapatistas occupied Hound Dog's beloved San Cristobal awhile back. I also believe that people, no matter who they are, are often most comfortable around the familiar, whether it be their own race or ethnicity, or dealing with traffic rules they are familiar with, or the type of stores they enjoy. Being interested in a place like Medellin, Colombia because it's very developed with everything one can have in the U.S. doesn't mean I'm demeaning Mexico. Apparently Mexico's large cities have very hectic traffic. Medellin has an elevated commuter train that spans the city. Even has cable cars that reach the poor neighborhoods high on the mountainsides. And their very progressive mayor has required English be taught in all grades of school for close to a decade now. It's not as easy a transition as Lake Chapala or even San Miguel, but with good economical air connections it's worth a look. And as far as my dream fantasy, I've lived in towns on the border that are 95% or more Hispanic. By choice. I'm very familiar with 3rd world colonias on the Mexican side and some on the U.S. side too. I have enough Cherokee in me that they often mistook me for Hispanic. My wife is an Italian/Cajun who could easily pass for Hispanic too. I don't think it's a hang up to point out people might prefer to be in an area where they don't stand out, just want to go about their business. And my wife lived in an area, Overland Park, KS, that literally has every kind of store imaginable, an extremely developed area that was very comfortable to live in. And her children and friends are there. She was very homesick. Thanks to all who tried to help with suggestions that would make her transition easier, especially Sunny. Some of you though have demonstrated a lack of empathy for our situation, and aren't quite as tolerant and broad minded as you'd have us believe.


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## chicois8

this thread has a broken leg,please put it out of its misery and close it.........


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## Isla Verde

chicois8 said:


> this thread has a broken leg,please put it out of its misery and close it.........


Well, I don't think it's in that much pain, but this thread does seem to have run its course. I'll give it the rest of the day, and will think about closing it tomorrow, unless anyone really objects.


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## chicois8

Isla Verde said:


> Well, I don't think it's in that much pain, but this thread does seem to have run its course. I'll give it the rest of the day, and will think about closing it tomorrow, unless anyone really objects.


Thanks, I appreciate the quick reply.......


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## Isla Verde

chicois8 said:


> Thanks, I appreciate the quick reply.......



De nada, chico.


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## surfrider

vantexan said:


> As you may have read, I loved San Miguel, my wife didn't. Her main complaints were walking on cobblestone streets with narrow sidewalks, and the lack of stores to shop in. She actually has bad knees so can't blame her for the streets. But she dearly missed the huge choice she was used to at home. She loves to shop, but before you get the wrong idea she's really into thrift stores and loves spending hours finding a jewel in the rough. But she also loves having the huge amount of choice available in the States.
> 
> Now I know that's anathema to some here. You may have come to Mexico to get away from the commercialism. But I'm trying to find a compromise. We had heard good things about Queretaro but were overwhelmed by the traffic there. So my question is, are there cities in Mexico that have good shopping, good weather, reasonable traffic, and are affordable? I've read Puebla has a large middle class so might try to steer her that direction. We just don't want the frenetic pace we saw in Queretaro which was otherwise a fine looking city. She's saying we can come back as soon as our old dogs pass away, which may be 4 or 5 years. There were apartments we liked on the Internet that didn't allow dogs. I know Guadalajara has it all, was wondering about Tlaquepaque? Thanks for any help!


If you can take the weather - you might want to look at Puerto Vallarta (it is not really Mexico) Has all the shops and stores you could possible think of basically all for tourist but there is also lots of night life and activities here. It is pretty much like the states rather than Mexico. Far Far from San Miguel feel and look.


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## Longford

vantexan said:


> I don't think it's a hang up to point out people might prefer to be in an area where they don't stand out, just want to go about their business. And my wife lived in an area, Overland Park, KS, that literally has every kind of store imaginable, an extremely developed area that was very comfortable to live in. And her children and friends are there. She was very homesick.


No, not a "hang up." My observation is that the things you cite are the same ones which cause many expats who've moved to Mexico, to return leave within a year or so. Best of luck. The two of you will figure this out, over time.


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## citlali

If your wife is homesick after two weeks, it does not look for extented trip abroad for you.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=surfrider;2230889]If you can take the weather - you might want to look at Puerto Vallarta (it is not really Mexico) Has all the shops and stores you could possible think of basically all for tourist but there is also lots of night life and activities here. It is pretty much like the states rather than Mexico. Far Far from San Miguel feel and look.[/QUOTE]_

What is this "...(Puerto Vallarta) is not really Mexico...." crap. Of course Puerto Vallarta is Mexico. To make this observation even more absurd, you state that the retail merchants are "...basically all for tourists...." Get serious. Then you state that Puerto Vallarta is pretty much like the states rather than Mexico. Another unfounded comment. 

Today´s Puerto Vallarta is very much a Mexican City with a wide variety of shopping choices and I know of no place in the United States that even remotely compares with Puerto Vallarta for better or worse. Personally, I wouldn´t live there or any other beachside city in the U.S. or Mexico but I´m still thinking Cartagena, Colombia or Santiago, Cuba might be nice.


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## vantexan

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=surfrider;2230889]If you can take the weather - you might want to look at Puerto Vallarta (it is not really Mexico) Has all the shops and stores you could possible think of basically all for tourist but there is also lots of night life and activities here. It is pretty much like the states rather than Mexico. Far Far from San Miguel feel and look._




What is this "...(Puerto Vallarta) is not really Mexico...." crap. Of course Puerto Vallarta is Mexico. To make this observation even more absurd, you state that the retail merchants are "...basically all for tourists...." Get serious. Then you state that Puerto Vallarta is pretty much like the states rather than Mexico. Another unfounded comment. 

Today´s Puerto Vallarta is very much a Mexican City with a wide variety of shopping choices and I know of no place in the United States that even remotely compares with Puerto Vallarta for better or worse. Personally, I wouldn´t live there or any other beachside city in the U.S. or Mexico but I´m still thinking Cartagena, Colombia or Santiago, Cuba might be nice.[/QUOTE]

But Puerto Vallarta gets nice weather in the winter, Cartagena is always hot.


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## citlali

Yes Puerto Vallarta is Mexico but if your wife cannot take the Mexican part of cooler San Miguel she probably will not take the Mexican hot and humid Puerto Vallarta either. As you say one plus the winters until May are nice.
As far as the touristy Vallarta that is the part I like beause I like to look at Gallery and stores .There you can get as much of the States as you like and as much as Mexico as you like, your choice and your budget.

Surfrider lives on the coast so he has a pretty good idea of what Vallarta is like.We like Vallarta but many people who like the little beach towns hate it hence "it is not Mexico" from SUrfrider. It is all Mexico , the good with the bad.

By the way Vantexan have you ever been to any of these places? ou sound like your are quoting all the stuff you read on the internet and that maybe one of the problems with your wife. Stop reading and dreaming about all these places , do not build her expectations and when you two are ready you can visit and you may find out that she falls in love with some place yo have never read about or heard about. If you keep your expectations pretty low you do not fall from so high.


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## RVGRINGO

For some, it seems that there is no such place.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Yes Puerto Vallarta is Mexico but if your wife cannot take the Mexican part of cooler San Miguel she probably will not take the Mexican hot and humid Puerto Vallarta either. As you say one plus the winters until May are nice.
> As far as the touristy Vallarta that is the part I like beause I like to look at Gallery and stores .There you can get as much of the States as you like and as much as Mexico as you like, your choice and your budget.
> 
> Surfrider lives on the coast so he has a pretty good idea of what Vallarta is like.We like Vallarta but many people who like the little beach towns hate it hence "it is not Mexico" from SUrfrider. It is all Mexico , the good with the bad.
> 
> By the way Vantexan have you ever been to any of these places? ou sound like your are quoting all the stuff you read on the internet and that maybe one of the problems with your wife. Stop reading and dreaming about all these places , do not build her expectations and when you two are ready you can visit and you may find out that she falls in love with some place yo have never read about or heard about. If you keep your expectations pretty low you do not fall from so high.


You do assume alot, don't you? Nowhere in this thread did I mention we were looking to live in Puerto Vallarta. We did look at renting a place posted on Craigslist that was very nice for the low price but found out why. Literally 50 steps up to it's door and I have a 90 lb old dog that has trouble with stairs. Before anyone tells me not to use Craigslist the Puerto Vallarta CL is very active with many daily new postings. It's where to go for ads in English with many turnkey apartments. And yes they are often more than in Mexican neighborhoods but they do rent short term with everything provided and you can find deals. There's a $600 1600 sq ft house in Guanajuato City available right now that's absolutely beautiful with everything provided. 

And Citali, no one gets anywhere in life without asking others for info. Which is what I did in this thread. I simply asked is there such a place based on given criteria. Can we just stick to the question? I've read many books on living in Mexico and various guides but have always found it better to ask people who know. Unfortunately that gives some the opportunity to berate my choices, tell me I live in a fantasy world, etc. San Miguel was exactly what I expected it to be and I loved it. I told her everything beforehand that I knew from reading and asking, told her it was one of the better places to transition into Mexico. I don't read minds, and assumed she was onboard for all of this after numerous discussions with her telling me she was excited about it.

As far as Puerto Vallarta goes, I know from reading his writings that Hound Dog knows much more than I do about Mexico. But from recent writing I'll assume I know a bit more than he does about Colombia. Cartagena has a very hot climate, no matter that it is a beautiful colonial city. I don't need to have been there to know that, have read numerous posts and guides saying so. All year long. At least PV has a nice winter. Just pointed it out in case someone read his post and suddenly thought Cartagena must be some paradise they should look into.


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## citlali

My husband is from a hot and humid climate and woul love to live in one no matter what he says bu since he values my company he stays in temperate climates another wise man who listens to what his wife likes.


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## lagoloo

One thing you can rely on about web boards: thread wander and much assumption-making.
Some folks don't even read the OP.

Then, there are the people for whom only thoroughly Mexican towns qualify as "real Mexico", which is like saying that New York isn't the "real United States". At least there's a few good chuckles in all that.


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## kcowan

What most people don't understand is that PV reacts to its market. So there are merchants to day-trippers, one week wonders and seasonal residents, as well as the many tourists that come from Gaudalajara and other inland towns.

To say that it does not represent Mexico is like saying the Sunnyside Oregon or Santa Barbara CA does not represent the US. It is total BS.


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## citlali

Surfriders said Puerto Vallarta was not Mexico and he lives full time in Mexico at the beach if I am not mistaken.. It was a funny dig not something to get all offended about but you guys all seem to take it very seriously.
Surfrider lives ful time at the beach in Mexico and he has a pretty good idea of what Mexcico is like so get off your collective soap boxes.


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## lagoloo

Having done time in San Miguel, I agree that it's a pleasant enough place, and if I could stand the climate, I'd enjoy living in Puerta Vallarta or any number of other places as well.

What I've gathered from this ongoing discussion is that the man's wife wants to be near her family, so it wouldn't much matter what the destination elsewhere was like. "Homesickness" is often incurable.

This is far from the first time I've heard about men wanting to retire in foreign countries while their wives wanted to stay put. Sometimes they actually do move to make esposo happy, but those who are really attached to the old home and hearth seldom stay away for long. Since traveling puts a substantial load on the family budget, moving to a faraway place could work, but only if frequent visits to "home" are affordable.


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