# American chef wanting to expat to Mexico.



## Aramis307 (Jan 13, 2021)

Ive decided to move to Mexico for a number of reasons but I'm a chef/liberal/kind person and for the last 10 years I've really been getting exhausted dealing with my own countrymen......with the rising tide of nationalism and division coupled with being called an elitist because I enjoy education, reading, learning about other cultures, etc.... Point is, IM DONE WITH AMERICA!

so I'm 42 and I'd like to find a place with other expats, fun (but not wild) nightlife, plenty of restaurants to ensure ample employment opportunities, and most importantly.....to be around kind/openminded people!

So please offer up any and all advice you can offer me! I'm planning to move in about 9 months to a year. 

Thanks!


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

How much research have you done about the requirements for moving and working here? You can't just move to Mexico and get a job. You would either need a temporary residency permit, which you apply for in a Mexican consulate outside of Mexico, and then can apply to upgrade to one with permission to work when you are actually in Mexico, or you need to get permanent residency right off the bat (also through a consulate). Both of those types of residency permits have financial requirements you have to present in order to qualify.

Also, you might be shocked at what you could expect to earn in Mexico. 

There are lots of areas with expat populations, but some tend to be a retired, older expat demographic.
You might like it around where I live, in Sayulita, which is about a hour north of Puerto Vallarta. It's a really touristy surf town, lots of nightlife, and tons of restaurants. There are many ex-pats in your age bracket. But you might get bored here and prefer to be in a bigger city. 

You also have to think about the kid of climate you like. It's very hot and humid in my area in the summer (which I don't mid at all, but lots of people do). There are other places with milder climates.

I hear you about getting out of the US. I won't even visit there anymore.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

In my experience, there are two motivations for moving: Because someone wants to be in a new place; and, because someone wants to get away from where they are.

If the underlying reason for wanting to move is climatic or cultural, probably either motivation is equally valid. However, if the underlying reason for wanting to move is people, wanting to get away from them never works. I find similar kinds of people where ever I go. And the way I interact with them, how they affect me, seems to be more a function of me than of them.

Having said that, I agree with the original poster about a distaste for the nationalism and division that is rampant in the US now. I wouldn't want to live there either. But another alternative to moving would be to find some new friends to hang out with.


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## CoronaSipper (Jan 1, 2021)

TundraGreen said:


> In my experience, there are two motivations for moving: Because someone wants to be in a new place; and, because someone wants to get away from where they are.
> 
> If the underlying reason for wanting to move is climatic or cultural, probably either motivation is equally valid. However, if the underlying reason for wanting to move is people, wanting to get away from them never works. I find similar kinds of people where ever I go. And the way I interact with them, how they affect me, seems to be more a function of me than of them.
> 
> Having said that, I agree with the original poster about a distaste for the nationalism and division that is rampant in the US now. I wouldn't want to live there either. But another alternative to moving would be to find some new friends to hang out with.


Wise words.


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## Firstlast (Jan 11, 2021)

Aramis307 said:


> Ive decided to move to Mexico for a number of reasons but I'm a chef/liberal/kind person and for the last 10 years I've really been getting exhausted dealing with my own countrymen......with the rising tide of nationalism and division coupled with being called an elitist because I enjoy education, reading, learning about other cultures, etc.... Point is, IM DONE WITH AMERICA!
> 
> so I'm 42 and I'd like to find a place with other expats, fun (but not wild) nightlife, plenty of restaurants to ensure ample employment opportunities, and most importantly.....to be around kind/openminded people!
> 
> ...


Be prepared to have an income of at least 2000 USD/mo to live comfortably and no long term debt. Also, be prepared to work the equivalent of a little more than USD minimum wage in the culinary field. In MX, only ownership makes money in the restaurant business.


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## Aramis307 (Jan 13, 2021)

Thanks for the info!

I've always been a minimalistic in both my personal life and my fiscal life so I won't need a huge income. 

As far as salary is concerned it's the same in American restaurants but I've been an executive chef my whole 20 year career and plan on either being hired into a chef position or I'll just work my way up through the ranks like I had to do for years as a young aspiring chef. 
I love hard work and pretty much hate living in the U.S. so I wouldn't even have an issue with living a more modest/humble life. Besides, I'm not interested in moving to a country like Mexico and living like a king. Just because I was Geographically lucky being born in a rich/powerful country like America doesn't mean I should be able to live like that in another country. 
I don't want to be a stereotypical American living in a poor country. It's that type of attitude that I'm looking forward to leaving in the rearview mirror...... Well, that and the capitalist conservative theocratic nonsense of the average 400lb hippo/hypocrite American filling their electric wheelchair shopping basket with fatty processed "foods" at the local Walmart. The $4600.00 electric "mobility companion" wheelchair that they use because they're to fat to walk (or work), which they got for free through Medicaid. Which they feel they're entitled to simply for being American and a patriotic, socialism hating, republican. Of course they're also to ****ing stupid to know that their disability check, food stamps, & health insurance (which they get for free!) are all socialism programs that they have because the "evil Democrats" fought tirelessly for them to have. And how do they say thank you? By joining Q-Anon.

I'll happily live like a pauper in Mexico than a prince in America!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Firstlast said:


> Be prepared to have an income of at least 2000 USD/mo to live comfortably and no long term debt. Also, be prepared to work the equivalent of a little more than USD minimum wage in the culinary field. In MX, only ownership makes money in the restaurant business.


Everyone has different needs and wants in terms of how they choose to live. I live in a nice, central area of Mexico City in a small, rather humble apartment - no parking, no elevator, no doorman, no laundry room. I don't have a car and easily get around the city on public transportation, at least I will once things get back to sort of normal. I estimate I spend around $1000 US dollars a month for expenses, both basic and slightly frivolous.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Surabi's first paragraph is the main issue. I do not think you are going to be able to get permission to work legally in Mexico.

Mexico is not like the US, they are very concerned about foreigners coming in and taking jobs away from Mexicans who need them. There is no debate about it here, Mexican jobs are for Mexicans. If you did come here without the right to work and were somehow able to get a job, its likely one of the other employees would quietly report you to the authorities, because if they didn't want your position for themselves, they all have relatives that would.

In the US (and in the expat community within Mexico) you can find American-hating Americans and America-loving Americans. In Mexico, you won't find any Mexican-hating Mexicans at all. This is not a country to go to in order to escape nationalism, you'd just be trading mixed US nationalism for unmixed Mexican nationalism.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Youarethrough the life crisis that all people in their 40´s go through and you wnt a differnt scene.. do ot cut the bridges come here and see if you like it. YOur idea of the ufly American is just another stereotype and you will find fat well off Mexican filling up their baskets at the supermarket and bargaining from a poor kid who sell corn to make a living... Mexico is a large country with a lot of differnt people with differnt attitude.. think as a rule the wealthy here are worse than the US wealthy..they are more jaded towards the poor.. so you will not find paradise here . Trump is gone so the atmosphere will change in the US for a while anyways.. Move to Mexico becuse you like the culture not because you want to escape yours.
THis said I love living here , the place has a lot of warts but it has its wondeful sides as well..like every place. The place is what you will make of it nut the US is just the same.. I know I lived ther 30 years.. Lived here 20 and lived in other countries.. you just cannot escape yourself..


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

You may enjoy living humbly and think you have a good attitude towards Mexicans, but you would still be taking a job from a Mexican, maybe a talented Mexican chef. 
Your attitude toward the disabled is cruel. When you see a person in a motorized wheelchair you have no idea of the condition that put them there.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I'm not sure Mexico is the right place for an 'Executive Chef'. Personally - if I were an executive chef I would try to get a job as such on a nice big private yacht in the Ft Lauderdale / Miami area. Maybe there's something on indeed.com. But - there is an indeed.com.mx and if you search on executive chef it does in fact pull up some listings. Most appear to be in the Mexico City area - which is what I would have expected. Perhaps someone at one of those companies has some industry specific advice for you.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

To work in Mexico, one must be a citizen of Mexico, or have a Residente Permanente Visa (Apply at a Mexican consulate in the USA. There are financial requirements for income, resources, etc.) Immigration authorities must be notified of expat's change of address, job, job location, etc. In some instances, an expat with a Residente Temporal Visa may apply to Inmigracion (INM) for specific permission to work for an INM authorized employer, at a specific location.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

eastwind said:


> Surabi's first paragraph is the main issue. I do not think you are going to be able to get permission to work legally in Mexico.


While the OP would certainly need the proper immigration status in order to work, the rest of your post is not correct and is a prevalent myth among retired ex-pats. 

There are tons of Mexican upholsterers, but I applied, under my FM3 16 years ago, to start my own upholstery business and was approved.

There are tons of foreigners where I live legally working and running their own businesses and it's extremely rare to experience any negativity to that from the local Mexicans.

The OP here could apply to start his own catering business, for example, and could do well with that in an area that has a lot of tourists who might like private catering while they are on vacation. He could work on private yachts that are moored in Mexican marina. He could offer cooking classes. There are all kinds of possibilities. 

Working in Mexico as a foreigner isn't synonymous with taking a job away from a Mexican. And a lot of Mexicans would do well to notice the things that make others patronize another business over theirs. I have many clients, both foreigners and Mexicans, who use my services because I do high quality work, have their projects ready whenI say I will, and show up on time. All of which they have found lacking when doing business with the Mexican upholsterers in the area.

The OP is young, has energy, simple needs, and a positive outlook about relocating. He needs to be aware of requirements and realities, of course, but not given pessimistic "you can't do that" discouragement.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Running your own business is always a different story, regardless of what country's immigration laws you are discussing. Every country is eager for investment of that sort. Some countries require that the business employ a certain number of nationals. Op didn't mention that, he mentions getting a job in someone else's establishment and "working his way up".

I didn't say "you can't do that", you are interpreting what I did say and misquoting me.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

eastwind said:


> Running your own business is always a different story, regardless of what country's immigration laws you are discussing. Every country is eager for investment of that sort. Some countries require that the business employ a certain number of nationals. Op didn't mention that, he mentions getting a job in someone else's establishment and "working his way up".
> 
> I didn't say "you can't do that", you are interpreting what I did say and misquoting me.


Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be a quote, I know you didn't say exactly that. 
But there are also plenty of businesses that will hire foreigners, it doesn't have to be a matter of starting your own business. And there are high-end hotels and resorts where the pay for a professional chef won't be peanuts.

My daughter volunteered at the international school in my town when she came to visit me for a few weeks. She's a licensed Montessori teacher. The administration and the kids liked her so much she was asked if she'd like a full time job there in the next school season, which she accepted. They provided her with all the paperwork to get her working papers in Mexico. The pay wasn't great compared to what she could earn in Canada, but it's not like those things don't happen all the time, foreigners getting work in Mexico.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Firstlast said:


> Be prepared to have an income of at least 2000 USD/mo to live comfortably


Uh, no. That may be what you need to live what you consider comfortably, but everyone has different requirements. I live quite comfortably on about a third of that. I don't pay rent, as I own my home, so add maybe $350 for rent for a single person. The OP says his needs are simple, as are mine.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Well - I know we can NOT live comfortably on 2000 USD/mo in Mexico. We went through more than that in health related expenses alone last year. Without doing the math I'd say (excluding travel) we spend at least twice that.

In my life - with a college degree - I have lived in a beat up trailer and could not afford a doctor's visit. But, I have also flown alone (with my wife and crew) on (someone else's) Gulfstream jet. I once knew a near billionaire who at one point in his life called his car his home.

In Mexico I remember being asked - is the floor of your home earthen ? Mine is not.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

MangoTango said:


> Well - I know we can NOT live comfortably on 2000 USD/mo in Mexico. We went through more than that in health related expenses alone last year


If we are going to give the OP useful advice, instead of just saying how much money we need to live comfortably in Mexico, maybe we should give some indication of what we spend money on.

Private health care is definitely expensive for older folks, but the OP is young, so his premiums would be low.

My electric bills are about 250 pesos for two months. I don't have AC, just fans, I don't have a pool, or a pressure pump. I keep my propane hot water tank turned off until 15 minutes before I need a shower. I go through 2 propane cylinders a year between the water heater and the cook stove. I do one load of wash a week. I seldom eat out. I don't buy much in the way of expensive imported food. I have a car and spend about 600 pesos/month on gas. About 500 pesos/month on phone and internet. 
Private health insurance got too expensive for me, so I dropped it this year. I have no health issues and would have to pay from savings if I got really sick or injured. 

What do those of you who say you need at least $2000US/month spend that money on? What's your lifestyle?


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

We live rather average US middle class lives here in Mexico. We have always lived very frugal lives. 

Having said that : we have two cars, one of which is 5 years old and has 8,000 kms. But there is maintenance, insurance, vehicle inspections,gas etc. In general our bi-monthly cfe bill is 50 pesos (we have solar panels). If it is the rainy season we make less energy. But - we had the expense of the panels etc which are maybe 4 years old now and should pay for themselves in another 3-4 years. We are piece by piece re-doing the roof. We have maybe 1/4 to go at a cost of roughly 25000 pesos (with supplies). I just bought a pool robot from the US (roughly $1000 USD). We have IMSS insurance but are going to let it expire this year. We pay maybe as much as 6,000 pesos/month at the vet. Just had the thyroid glands removed from a cat who is now eating better than me. We might spend 12,000 - 15,000 pesos/month at Costco. Less money at mega/sams/walmart/ferreteria/home depot/comex. Our propane tank (on the roof) gets filled once a month or so (1,000 pesos). Our property taxes are roughly $400 US (I pay with a dollar based credit card). We generally bring in one cheap meal a week (mixiote, enchilladas verdes etc). No eating out for a year now. We are on a community well (maybe 2,000 pesos twice a year). Our community fees run about 26,000 pesos. We have internet (530 pesos). VPN ($100/year), 2 cell phones, Kindle unlimited, Amazon music. I am about to have one wall raised a couple meters (for privacy) - 150-200,000 pesos. We had another barrier/wall (kind of like an attractive billboard) constructed last year to block the noise of a neighbor's a/c unit (70,000 pesos). No real travel this past year. Our big ticket item last year was our out of pocket healthcare (which I paid for in dollars). We pay the gardener 500 pesos/visit. Someone just installed a new tankless water heater (the heater was maybe 6,000 pesos and installation was another 1000). We have a whole house voltage regulator that needed service last month (maybe 3000 pesos). I spend maybe on average 200US /month on misc amazon/mercadolibre stuff. Just ordered a new pool cover (6,000 pesos). We have homeowner's ins. at the moment (16,000 pesos) but I am re-thinking that. This is not an all-inclusive list. Just random expenses off the top of my head. 

We are up at 4AM and reading in bed by 7PM. Pretty much the same routine we have had for 40 some years now. Except neither of us are working any longer.

Just very average middle class stuff. No ? It adds up. Thank goodness we are still making 4% on our Mexican savings - because we are making nada on our US t-bills.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

I guess to me having a pool, purchasing a $1000 pool robot, and spending the equivalent of $300US/month at the vet is more than average middle class.

I spend about 2500 pesos/month at Costco for one person, compared to your double that amount per person. My property taxes are 600 pesos a year, not $400US. You spent 7000 pesos for a tankless water heater and installation, I spent 2500 pesos for a normal Mexican water heater and 200 pesos for the plumber to change it over from the old one.

You say you are frugal, but it's not what I consider frugal. However, we are all different in what we feel we need to be comfortable.

In any case, I doubt the OP here is going to need to spend 6000 pesos a month at the vet, maintain a pool, or 2 vehicles, or spend 6000 pesos/month at Costco, so he should be able to live as comfortably as I do on $1000US/month or less.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Perhaps for a Canadian living in Mexico having a pool puts someone above 'average middle class' ?

As for the pool robot - it actually will pay for itself rather quickly. With it there really isn't the need to run the very expensive pool pump, cuts down on chemicals and means I don't have to dump water/backfill the filter any longer. The robot costs 7 US cents (roughly) to run. And 'rudy' the robot is hard at work as I am writing this...

As for the vet - just as our personal healthcare was an expense recently, so was the pet care for our 4 aging pets. And just as I would never take my wife to an IMSS hospital in an emergency, I wouldn't take one of our pets to one vet over another simply because he was cheaper.

But it is good that you raised this aspect of living in Mexico. Over the years, on forums such as this, maybe half (my gut estimate) of the participants talk about how cheaply they live in Mexico. The other half talk about how many properties they have. I know how much more cheaply we are living in Mexico than we were in the US. Gosh - simply by not having a boat docked in my back yard is saving us a TON of money. But I also know that we were middle class in the US as were our friends and co-workers. And really (and in a sense it is by our design) our basic lifestyle (other than the boat perhaps) is remarkably similar to what we had in the US. (Well we lived 1/4 mile from the beach there and now it is a 3-4 hour drive). We were very comfortable there and we are very comfortable here.

By the way - I know that the US is not Mexico nor Canada but in the US the 2021 poverty level for a single person is $12,880.

Edit : I have never researched it, and the source was probably a realtor years ago, but apparently there are more swimming pools in Morelos Mexico (per capita ?) than anywhere else (the world was implied).


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I live on the equivalent of $1000 usd per month for all my expenses in Mexico. That does not include US taxes, travel outside of Mexico (none recently) nor donations and gifts in dollars. I have no car, but I do have a large motorcycle that is comparable in cost to a small car. I own my house, but maintenance expenses are probably not a whole lot less than renting. I rarely eat or drink in bars or restaurants, I prefer my own cooking. I don't have a TV, stereo but I do have both a desktop and laptop computer, each of which get replaced every few years. The computers are used for my job and for entertainment.

Utility costs for comparison, all in pesos:
Gas 100/month - (cylinder every 5 months at 500 each)
Electricity 100/month - (billed bimonthly at about 250 a shot)
Water 50/month - (paid annually)
Internet 450/month
Property tax 1250/year - (with a senior discount
Mx Insurance 10,000/year
IMSS 13,000/year


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Our auto insurance (granted on 2 cars) is 1,600 pesos / month.
Our gardener (do you have a garden ?) is 2,300 pesos / month (and I mow the lawn myself)
Emissions testing runs 200 pesos / month
Fortunately you are healthy, but unless Guadalejara is different, you ain't getting your eyes tested, your blood tested, etc at IMSS lately. You CAN get an ultrasound at IMSS (covid permitting) but you're not going to get a pet scan (25,000 pesos) or a cat scan (4,000 pesos) at IMSS. Hopefully those are covered by your insurance (is there a deductible ?)
You have no pets. Ok - that is our choice.
You have no pool. Once again our choice.
If I remember correctly you live in the city center. That's fine but not our choice. We have a view that goes on for maybe 80 miles.
Do they have the Fester brand of paints etc near you ? We spent 1,300 pesos / month last year at that store alone. (Yes we are waterproofing the roof etc). We also get paint at comex and home depot in addition.

We have different lifestyles. But it is good that you (kind of) draw a picture of costs involved for your lifestyle, as I also have tried to do here. I'll bet that you could almost live in central Florida out in the boonies and your costs would be in the ballpark of what they are today here in Mexico.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Why would I want to live "in central Florida out in the boonies"?

Edit: For that matter, I would not want to live anywhere in Florida, nor anywhere out in the boonies. I am perfectly happy in Mexico in the middle of a big city.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

TundraGreen, So your basic living expenses and lifestyle are more or less exactly like mine. I do have a car, and insurance on that is less than 4000 pesos/year. That is the only insurance I have. And my property taxes are half of yours.

MangoTango, I have a large garden, but no gardener. I love gardening and won't let a Mexican gardener touch it, as they have quite a different garden aesthetic than I do. And I won't pay anyone to walk around holding a hose.

I do hire a guy to trim tall trees and bouganvillas, and that costs 2000 pesos once a year.

I also have a gal who cleans for me, once every 2 weeks for 4 hours at 400 pesos each time.

My intention in suggesting that we say what our expenses and lifestyle are was not for any of us to feel we have to defend our choices, but only for informational purposes as to why some say they couldn't live on less than $2000US/month while others live quite comfortably on half that.

It just doesn't make sense to tell someone who is inquiring that they'll "need" xx amount to live comfortably, when their needs may not be the same as ours.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> Why would I want to live "in central Florida out in the boonies"?
> 
> Edit: For that matter, I would not want to live anywhere in Florida, nor anywhere out in the boonies. I am perfectly happy in Mexico in the middle of a big city.





TundraGreen said:


> Why would I want to live "in central Florida out in the boonies"?
> 
> Edit: For that matter, I would not want to live anywhere in Florida, nor anywhere out in the boonies. I am perfectly happy in Mexico in the middle of a big city.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Also every area is different, I live part of the time in Chiapas and part of the time in Chapala and most basic necessities are cheaper in Chiapas and luxury items or what is considered luxury is more expensive.
Labor. varies a lot too.:I work in indigenous communities and peones are paid 100 pesos a day and masons are paid 180 to 200 pesos a day.. try that in Cancun or Guadalajara.. I had to fight tooth and nails for a group to pay 250 pesos a day to a master mason who could do some work that no one else could do... It was a huge battle...
Being a chef , I assume the OP will be working in a tourist area and therefore life will be more expensive but then the pay will be higher as well..
In Chiapas I walk or take public tranportation everywhere , in Chapala I drive. again big difference.
Down there I have 2 patios with plants up in Chapala I have a nice big garden and pool.. again big difference and on and on,,
Many people live on social security so if the op is thrifty and busy working he should be able to live on very little. If he works for someone his IMSS should be paid for and if he can live close to work he probably can live on very little and if he works in a restaurant part of the food should be free..
My godson jut started a job, he is an engineer he makes 11000 pesos a month, get IMSS and food at lunch. He lives with us right now but many live on their own.. That is reality in Mexico.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Really good point, citlali. Living expenses can vary greatly depending on where in the country you live, and that is true in pretty much every country.

My town of Sayulita is one of the most expensive in Mexico. That doesn't affect food shopping at the big supermarkets, or Costco, or purchases from Home Depot, as those are the same anywhere in Mexico, but it definitely affects rents, having employees or one-off labor, and property taxes, etc.

You can't get anyone to work here now for less than 100 pesos/hr. That includes maids and gardeners and a maestro mason would cost about 1000 pesos/day.

And restaurant meals are quite expensive compared to other areas in Mexico, even street tacos are. When I first came to Sayulita 20 years ago, tacos were 3 times the price they were in Mexico City and still are.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

wow that is really expensive. I have a great mason who die work for me for a little less than 500 a day and that is what he wants.. The gardner get 70 pesos an hour, and the maid 80 pesos an hour,Some neighbors , newbies were paying 150 pesos an hour for a really bad and lazy garner so it all depends even in the same town.
The cleaning lady has been with us 20 years and is great. The gardner if you can call him that makes 70 pesos an hour an frankly for what he does he is overpaid,,Those prices are average here some pay more , some less ..
Mson told me they were making 1000 pesos a day in Cancun as well.. but who knows if that is true.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

surabi said:


> MangoTango, I have a large garden, but no gardener. I love gardening and won't let a Mexican gardener touch it, as they have quite a different garden aesthetic than I do. And I won't pay anyone to walk around holding a hose.
> 
> I do hire a guy to trim tall trees and bouganvillas, and that costs 2000 pesos once a year.
> 
> I also have a gal who cleans for me, once every 2 weeks for 4 hours at 400 pesos each time.


The 'gardener' we have now (and for maybe the last 3 years) is a really nice guy. He is 39 and now has 3 young daughters (the latest is 1 month old). He is pretty much willing to do whatever I ask him to do, mostly because I am usually doing it with him. Lately garden days have been 3 hours of non-garden work and 3 hours of garden work. I mow my own lawn. I enjoy the exercise. It takes me about an hour. I do my own watering. I run the sprinkler system every other day and on the off days I water with the hose. That takes me about 2 hours. We have a very large garden. I pay the gardener 500 pesos per visit and gave him 1500 for Christmas. He has also taken home my old law mower, DVD player, weed wacker, copper pipe, etc.

One of our nearby neighbors is a well established hipico. There are two guys there (an uncle and nephew) who work the horses 6 days a week. They are big strong guys and have a large chain saw. Every now and then I ask them for a days work on their day off. They are without a doubt the hardest working people I have seen in Mexico. They have a great work ethic. They are extremely cautious (we are talking some BIG trees). I ask them what they want to get paid and normally tip them 500-1000 pesos depending on the job.

We have a hierro that has a shop nearby. He is more a jack of all trades type person. He can make almost anything. I don't even need to tell him how to do something. I tell him what I need and his solution is always better than anything I could dream up. He has done a lot of work for us over the years. We have become 'friendly' with his family. When his father-in-law passed 2 years back we did the day of the dead feast with them. Within the last two months we had an electrical problem early on a Sunday morning. We called him and he came right over. When I wanted to pay him he refused and said he wanted us to think of him as a friend. I gave him 500 pesos and told him to buy his daughter a gift from us for Christmas.

Those are the 'success stories'. We have also dealt with people who are not as hard-working, show up late, charge too much, don't keep their word, cut corners etc. It has gotten to the point now that when we deal with a new person/group we draw up a written description of the work with cost - and have them sign it up front.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I have been doing a remodel of my place using a contractor in Cancun. His brother Jose acts as his on-site foreman while he drives around getting materials and finding new jobs. He told me he "really pays" "them" (whoever that includes, at least Jose) "5000 a week", and that he is helping Jose build his house on some land that was bought. I think that means he financed the land purchase and his brother gets less than 5000 in cash, but everything together is that much. And his brother has a son who works with them as a junior painter, I doubt the son gets that much. Jose does drywall and paint in addition to being the on-site boss. They have specialists for tile, carpentry, air conditioning, and one guy who does both electrical and plumbing. 5000/wk for a painter is pretty good even for Cancun, I think. 

When they tore up my old (20 year old) tile (white, 2' squares), a bunch of pieces came up whole. They collected those and carefully hauled them off. They will be reused. The contractor's cousin is also a contractor, that one builds little houses for locals, and the tile will find its way into somebody's house who wants a discount on the tile. Or perhaps Jose's house, but from the picture they are still putting up the walls, so it will probably get some future client's old tile rather than mine.

There were some things changed during the remodel that I thought were unnecessary to change, and that the main purpose of changing them was to generate salvageable parts. For instance they changed all my thermostats (one per unit, 6 total). Only only one really needed changing, the others were replaced with new ones pretty much identical to the old ones. That cost me a couple hundred dollars, but what can you do, it's part of the calculus I suppose. 

A cleaning lady here spending half a day (3 hours) was asking 350 pesos prior to covid. I need to find one now that the renovation is winding down, and I may have to pay more. But it costs them 44 pesos worth of bus fare (4 fares) to get here and back home from the cheap residential areas of cancun where they live. And it's not clear to me whether they have to pay a cut to the person that refers them for the job.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

MangoTango said:


> Those are the 'success stories'. We have also dealt with people who are not as hard-working, show up late, charge too much, don't keep their word, cut corners etc. It has gotten to the point now that when we deal with a new person/group we draw up a written description of the work with cost - and have them sign it up front.


Yes, it's wonderful when you find good, loyal workers. 
I've also had those who've worked for me help me out and refuse to accept payment. I was invited to my maestro's wedding. And when the crew needed more framing lumber when building my house, they said there was a bunch at their primo's house from a completed project they could grab, so I wouldn't have the expense of buying more. Quite the opposite of the warnings I got from some other gringos- "Count all the empty cement bags, cause they'll steal your cement to use on their own homes".

One thing I've found in Mexico is that someone can have a great experience with some worker, and another has a bad one. It seems like Mexicans base a lot of their work behavior on whether they like you or not, not simply that they are getting paid to do a job. They work better for those foreigners who speak Spanish, or at least make an effort to, and also have more respect for those they see aren't afraid of work or getting their hands dirty themselves, as with you working alongside your gardener. They have less respect for those who sit on the terrace drinking margueritas, and can't put together one full sentence in Spanish, even though they've lived in Mexico for years, while they work their butt off for them.

I agree that when dealing with someone new, it's really important to get the expectations, exact job set out, price, etc. in writing. And not to give out too much money up front, as many are poor money managers. I always purchase the materials myself and just pay labor costs. There are too many who see foreigners as marks with limitless quantities of cash or easy to take advantage of.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

surabi said:


> …
> One thing I've found in Mexico is that someone can have a great experience with some worker, and another has a bad one. It seems like Mexicans base a lot of their work behavior on whether they like you or not, not simply that they are getting paid to do a job. They work better for those foreigners who speak Spanish, or at least make an effort to, and also have more respect for those they see aren't afraid of work or getting their hands dirty themselves, as with you working alongside your gardener. They have less respect for those who sit on the terrace drinking margueritas, and can't put together one full sentence in Spanish, even though they've lived in Mexico for years, while they work their butt off for them.
> …


I agree. I have a plumber friend who does great work for me at a reasonable price. I no longer recommend him to others because he charges them twice what he charges me.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> I agree. I have a plumber friend who does great work for me at a reasonable price. I no longer recommend him to others because he charges them twice what he charges me.


I no longer recommend my best workers to some people I know who ask who did some work they admire for the opposite reason- those people proved to be disrespectful cheapskates who tried to chisel down the worker on his reasonable and well-deserved price


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

surabi said:


> I no longer recommend my best workers to some people I know who ask who did some work they admire for the opposite reason- those people proved to be disrespectful cheapskates who tried to chisel down the worker on his reasonable and well-deserved price


Now on the other side of that coin - our best friend is a retired Mexican doctura. She is a great person. But money is of no matter to her. I doubt she would ever question a price. We have shared several workers over the years. She has spoiled them for us. One Ing. quoted a wall we are thinking of extending at 300,000 pesos. This guy calls me by my first name and slaps me on the back. He also speaks a little English. When he gave me that quote I said - you must be on drugs. We haven't started that project yet and we are still collecting other quotes but that Ing has revised his quote to 200,000 pesos - which I think is still a little high. He built us our second cistern as well as another largish project in the past and we always pretty much went with his price. I'm sure he is a little shocked at my push back.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Yes, some folks get to big for their britches and think their time is worth a lot more than it is, just because they happened to work for someone to whom money is no object or got some clueless person who wasn't aware of the going rate to pay a lot more.
I've had guys work for me who just came to the area and wanted to get established with a good reputation, so did fine work for a reasonable price. They got recommended to many others, to the point where they fancied themselves contractors, when they didn't have the skill set for that, hired a bunch of guys to work under them, took on far more jobs than they could responsibly handle, the quality of workmanship went down while the price went up, with the upshot being that the folks who first used them no longer do, and they went from having a good reputation to a bad one.

It's just bad business sense coupled with arrogance.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

surabi said:


> While the OP would certainly need the proper immigration status in order to work, the rest of your post is not correct and is a prevalent myth among retired ex-pats.
> 
> There are tons of Mexican upholsterers, but I applied, under my FM3 16 years ago, to start my own upholstery business and was approved.
> 
> ...


Starting a Business is MUCH different than outright taking a job and no doubt requirements very by location..I was a Scuba In Instructor in Mexico..no issue at the time They wanted tourists and Few Fluent English Speaking Mexican Certified OWSI existed .. I would suggest Get your feet wet and maybe try Bar-tending.. Lots of Gringa's bar tend and the Occasional ******..Dont forget SAVINGS AND INVESTMENTS...for when YOU Retire... Here you have no less than SS.. Hahahaha believe me two choices... You get old or you die early...


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