# Strategies for spending over 90/180 days + access to healthcare in post Brexit Spain



## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.

However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?

I could probably afford private healthcare but it would probably be expensive due to a pre-existing condition (controlled hypertension).

I would like to spend 3-4 months a year in the UK and would obviously require health cover whilst here. I will keep our house in the UK - would have to as can't get rid of the kids 

Myself and my wife have good NHS / Teachers pensions and quite a lot of savings / investments.

Thanks for any tips / advice.

R.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rheumatoid said:


> I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.
> 
> However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?
> 
> ...


As an EU citizen, you will need to register as a resident in Spain if you wish to be here more than 90 days continuously. More than 182 days in a year and you become a tax resident automatically and Spain taxes you on your worldwide income. Presumably you will not qualify for a S1 so you will need to have private medical insurance with no co-pay and the cost of this may depend on pre-existing conditions.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rheumatoid said:


> I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.
> 
> However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?
> 
> ...


The only way to spend more than 90/180 days here in those circumstances (as a non-EU citizen) would be to secure a residency visa. 
If you can move here before Brexit, do it now while you're still EU citizens.

The process for non-EU citizens is more complicated & the financial requirements MUCH higher.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

baldilocks said:


> As an EU citizen, you will need to register as a resident in Spain if you wish to be here more than 90 days continuously. More than 182 days in a year and you become a tax resident automatically and Spain taxes you on your worldwide income.


thanks

Would this mean I am taxed on my pension and investment income in the UK and again in Spain?


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

xabiaxica said:


> If you can move here before Brexit, do it now while you're still EU citizens.


I assume further detail on this is required and whether it can be done during the transition period or would need to be done prior to 31/10 or whatever the leave date ends up being?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rheumatoid said:


> I assume further detail on this is required and whether it can be done during the transition period or would need to be done prior to 31/10 or whatever the leave date ends up being?


No-one knows for sure.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rheumatoid said:


> thanks
> 
> Would this mean I am taxed on my pension and investment income in the UK and again in Spain?


As I understand it, if you are tax resident in Spain, then Spain will offset what you pay in UK against what is due in Spain, however, there is special treatment of government pensions, I'm not sure how that works but no doubt somebody else will be along to advise.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

baldilocks said:


> As I understand it, if you are tax resident in Spain, then Spain will offset what you pay in UK against what is due in Spain, however, there is special treatment of government pensions, I'm not sure how that works but no doubt somebody else will be along to advise.


Thanks and I assume any reciprocal tax arrangement may go in the bin with many other things post brexit


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rheumatoid said:


> thanks
> 
> Would this mean I am taxed on my pension and investment income in the UK and again in Spain?


Until you have made your first annual tax return in Spain (here the tax year runs from 1 January to 31 December and tax is paid by the end of June in the following year) then yes, effectively. Once you have made your first tax return you download the Spain (Individual) Double Taxation form from the HMRC website. It has two versions, one in English and one in Spanish. You complete both, then submit the Spanish one to the Agencia Tributaria in Spain to request a Certificado de Residencia Fiscal (Convenio). When that it received, you submit it to HMRC in the UK along with the completed English version of that form. They subsequently refund the tax you have paid in the UK since the time you became resident in Spain, and allocate you an NT (no tax) UK tax code to be used on your UK income.

The only exception to this is Crown pensions, which are only taxable in the UK (although they do have to be declared on your Spanish tax return as exempt income, and can affect the rate you are taxed at if you have other income eg state pensions, as well). You remain entitled to a UK personal tax allowance against your Crown pension. NHS pensions are a bit complicated because they are only included in the list of official Crown pensions if they are paid by a local authority. I'll try to find the list of approved Crown pensions and post it.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Reciprocal tax treaty is concluded with each country separately so has nothing to do with EU membership. So UK/Spain tax treaty should continue to operate post-Brexit. If you become tax resident in Spain and non-resident in UK, you just pay the Spanish income tax. If you are liable to tax in both countries, you effectively pay the higher of the two tax liabilities. Foreign tax liability can be complicated and you should take professional advice first.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rheumatoid said:


> Thanks and I assume any reciprocal tax arrangement may go in the bin with many other things post brexit


That won't happen, as too many wealthy people (Bojo's mates) would be affected ...  These arrangements aren't linked to EU membership anyway. UK has them with lots of non EU countries.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Rheumatoid said:


> I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.
> 
> However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?
> 
> ...


As you say your retiring next week ( week beginning Monday 28th October to 3rd November ) then you
could hope the British Government leaves the EU with a deal, in which case the Transition period
kicks in where you can still move to Spain and go through getting residence ( as an EU citizen, etc rather than 3rd country citizen ) as your rights would remain unchanged during the Transition period upto 31st December 2020.

All this in order to secure Spanish residency where you can forget the 90/180 days limitations and of course
you can still spend 3-4 months a year in the UK, as the British Expats who follow a Swallow lifestyle 
( time in UK and time in Spain ) enjoy already although you would still be dependent on the S1 regime 
as regards reciprocal healthcare arrangements between the UK and Spain and must remain a resident
in Spain after transition.

There's no getting around or away from the cost of healthcare insurance and how much you pay
will be determined on what impact your pre-existing conditions come to.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

What can affect is uprating of UK state pension for Spanish residents. Currently EU regulations stipulate your pension should be uprated in line with UK law. Post-Brexit (post-Implementation period to be precise), unless it's in the withdrawal agreement or a special arrangement is made with Spain (Spain is keen but UK less so as things stand), you may not get the annual increase UK-based pensioners get (3.9% from April 2020).


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

Joppa said:


> What can affect is uprating of UK state pension for Spanish residents. Currently EU regulations stipulate your pension should be uprated in line with UK law. Post-Brexit (post-Implementation period to be precise), unless it's in the withdrawal agreement or a special arrangement is made with Spain (Spain is keen but UK less so as things stand), you may not get the annual increase UK-based pensioners get (3.9% from April 2020).


Thanks. I am making provision to not include state pension and will see it as a bonus if I get anything. With 9 years until I am entitled who knows!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Williams2 said:


> you would still be dependent on the S1 regime
> as regards reciprocal healthcare arrangements between the UK and Spain and must remain a resident
> in Spain after transition.
> 
> ...


As the OP is still some years away from UK state retirement age, he would not be entitled to an S1 form even if Brexit were not happening.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Here is the list of Government/non Government pensions I referred to. It confirms what I said about an NHS pension not being classed as a Government pension unless it is paid by a local Authority.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> Here is the list of Government/non Government pensions I referred to. It confirms what I said about an NHS pension not being classed as a Government pension unless it is paid by a local Authority.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040


Thanks


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> As the OP is still some years away from UK state retirement age, he would not be entitled to an S1 form even if Brexit were not happening.


Of course I was thinking ahead of when he reaches the age of 66 ( or whatever the new state retirement age will 
be for his generation in 8 years time  ) after moving to Spain.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

Williams2 said:


> Of course I was thinking ahead of when he reaches the age of 66 ( or whatever the new state retirement age will
> be for his generation in 8 years time  ) after moving to Spain.


67 for me :fingerscrossed:


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Rheumatoid said:


> 67 for me :fingerscrossed:


I know it keeps on going up. :tsk:


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Re the double taxation agreement between U.K. and spain. 

If tax resident in Spain, with the exception of crown pensions and income from rental in U.K. which are taxable only in U.K. all other income is taxable only in spain. No choice of where one pays !

Even crown pension income must be declared in spain as does rental income. However although not taxable in spain, those incomes are taken into consideration. In my case it results in me starting to pay spanish tax at 29% from the first euro of my other income, U.K. OAP, bank interest, premium bonds winnings ( I wish) etc


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## ShoulIStayOrShouldIGo (Oct 22, 2019)

baldilocks said:


> As an EU citizen, you will need to register as a resident in Spain if you wish to be here more than 90 days continuously. More than 182 days in a year and you become a tax resident automatically and Spain taxes you on your worldwide income. Presumably you will not qualify for a S1 so you will need to have private medical insurance with no co-pay and the cost of this may depend on pre-existing conditions.


Hi. I understand the numbers regarding the 183 day thing. But what's the difference between Tax Residency and Non-Tax Residency regarding the actual procedure (evidence needed etc.).

I was told that it was impossible to get residency without tax residency as spending more than 6 months out of the country would void any Residency status. I'm confused.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

If one moves to Spain (makes it their centre of economic activity) they become tax resident immediately. That of course includes persons who come and seek or take work here, or in the case of say a wife and family of a person who works elsewhere who move here. Then the husband (spouse) is deemed to be tax resident, unless in very exceptional circumstances he/she can pursued the tax authorities otherwise. That is so even the spouse may never set foot in Spain.


The 183 rules is subservient to that

If the tax authorities say you are tax resident then you need to prove you’re not (guilty until proven innocent).


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

ShoulIStayOrShouldIGo said:


> Hi. I understand the numbers regarding the 183 day thing. But what's the difference between Tax Residency and Non-Tax Residency regarding the actual procedure (evidence needed etc.).
> 
> I was told that it was impossible to get residency without tax residency as spending more than 6 months out of the country would void any Residency status. I'm confused.


You are tax-resident automatically if you spend more than 50% of a calendar year in Spain. That is, you have to do a declaration for that calendar year in the following May-June.

"Residency" is a bit of a misnomer as it currently means you have a certificate (or card) confirming that you are on the register of EU citizens resident in Spain. You are supposed to do this after 3 months if you intend to live in Spain permanently. It gives you the same rights as Spanish citizens and is not connected to tax.

That's my understanding anyway!


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## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

Rheumatoid said:


> I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.
> 
> However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?
> 
> ...


Just do the right thing. If you want to take advantage of the good things Spain has to offer, accept its rules. In your own words, you can afford early retirement and have quite alot of savings, so whats the problem.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

DonMarco said:


> Just do the right thing. If you want to take advantage of the good things Spain has to offer, accept its rules. In your own words, you can afford early retirement and have quite alot of savings, so whats the problem.


Errr, thanks but that very much depends on what the right thing is


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Rheumatoid said:


> I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.
> 
> *However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?*
> 
> ...


There are no 'strategies' for spending more than 90 days in a 180 day period.
If you become a third country national every time you enter and exit an EU country you will have to go through passport control/customs and your passport will be stamped and/or scrutinised. If you break the rules there is a distinct possibility you could be banned from entering for x amount of months or years.
Either you become a resident now before brexit happens or you wait and apply for a visa like other third country nationals do.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Tigerlillie said:


> There are no 'strategies' for spending more than 90 days in a 180 day period.
> If you become a third country national every time you enter and exit an EU country you will have to go through passport control/customs and your passport will be stamped and/or scrutinised. If you break the rules there is a distinct possibility you could be banned from entering for x amount of months or years.
> Either you become a resident now before brexit happens or you wait and apply for a visa like other third country nationals do.


Quiite right Tigerlillie - why shilly-shally ( sit on the fence ) any longer and go for Spanish residency asap while you still count as an EU-Citizen - you know
it makes sense rather than incur the wrath of 3rd country national rules.

As sure as night follows day - BJ's not going to do you any favours by hanging on.

The only Brit's I know that are dithering, are those Brit's who at the end of the day will always say; well I never wanted to move or retire to Spain anyway.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> Quiite right Tigerlillie - why shilly-shally ( sit on the fence ) any longer and go for Spanish residency asap while you still count as an EU-Citizen - you know
> it makes sense rather than incur the wrath of 3rd country national rules.
> 
> As sure as night follows day - BJ's not going to do you any favours by hanging on.
> ...


and those who have been living below the radar and avoiding paying their dues, ever since they arrived, afraid that if they put their heads above the parapet, it will cost them a fortune or they will end up in jail. They hope that if they keep quiet there will be another referendum and Brexit will be forgotten so they can continue their lives, cheating the system.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks all.

so it looks like becoming a resident is the only real option but does that not just shift the problem to not being able to stay in the UK for long periods in a post exit world?

Hopefully exiting the EU won't happen but if it does I guess I need to decide where I want to spend most of my time and stick with it - assuming (which seems unknown) I can get Spanish residency during the transition period if I decide on Spain.

R.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

Tigerlillie said:


> There are no 'strategies' for spending more than 90 days in a 180 day period.
> If you become a third country national every time you enter and exit an EU country you will have to go through passport control/customs and your passport will be stamped and/or scrutinised. If you break the rules there is a distinct possibility you could be banned from entering for x amount of months or years.
> _*Either you become a resident now before brexit happens or you wait and apply for a visa like other third country nationals do*_.


They look like strategies to me :noidea:


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit (Oct 25, 2019)

90/180 rules are simple and clear.

Unless one wants to hire boat smugglers to get him across.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Rheumatoid said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> so it looks like becoming a resident is the only real option but does that not just shift the problem to not being able to stay in the UK for long periods in a post exit world?
> 
> ...


Why would you want to spend long periods of time in the UK after becoming resident in Spain ?
Really I see absolutely no problems for you spending a month or two or three in the UK - any longer than that,
then the UK's notoriety for traffic jams and roadworks would drive you up the wall.

Finally don't pin your hopes on any transition period being any longer than until the end of December 2020
in the event of the UK leaving with a deal.


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit (Oct 25, 2019)

Williams2 said:


> Why would you want to spend long periods of time in the UK after becoming resident in Spain ?
> Really I see absolutely no problems for you spending a month or two or three in the UK - any longer than that,
> then the UK's notoriety for traffic jams and roadworks would drive you up the wall.
> 
> ...


He would have to be careful with number of days of being absent from Spain or will loose residency. You cant just go in/out of country as tourist. If you have residency, you need to be resident.

Also, if there is transition period, it wont end 2020. There is build-in provision to extend talks for 2 years or more, if needed. Its already been said that extra 2 year will be needed due to all these delays.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Rheumatoid said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> so it looks like becoming a resident is the only real option but does that not just shift the problem to not being able to stay in the UK for long periods in a post exit world?
> 
> ...


I don't believe you can move to the EU without a visa during the transition period. As I understand it, the UK will exit (who knows when) and then move into a transition period, if there is a deal, and AFAIK the EU has already issued the rules that will apply during that transition period. If someone thinks differently, perhaps they should include an appropriate link to the information they are relying on.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Rheumatoid said:


> I retire next week aged 58 and my plans to buy a place and spend 8-9 months a year there are currently on hold until we get some clarity over whether Brexit will actually happen and the form it will take.
> 
> However, assuming the worst and it does happen, are there any strategies you can suggest that would allow spending more than 90/180 days and provide access to reasonably priced healthcare. Is there anything I can be doing now to help try and secure these things?
> 
> ...


Not really answering your question but why 8 or 9 months? If you can limit your visits to around 6 months per year, 2 to 3 months at a time, why not remain UK resident? 

Saving & investments have better tax treatment in the UK, you can leave your (spare) UK car in Spain for up to 12 months and you can (currently) use your EHIC card and relatively cheap annual travel insurance to provide health care.

Many people enjoy the ability to visit both the UK and Spain at the optimum times....summer & winter in the UK and spring and autumn in Spain (Spain is Too hot in July & August and bloody cold Jan & Feb, your UK house will be far warmer). Flights are pretty cheap if you can travel light & are not too bothered about dates. We pay around €100 for 2 adults door to door.

Just be thoughtful on the type of property you buy.... lock up & leave, near to airport and manageable. Forget the Fincas/country houses and think about your situation in 10 years time. we have friends that are now trying to sell their Finca to move to an apartment in a village/town. A villa on a decent urbanisation could be a good compromise.

Good luck. :fingerscrossed:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

b0ll0cks-to-brexit said:


> He would have to be careful with number of days of being absent from Spain or will loose residency. You cant just go in/out of country as tourist. If you have residency, you need to be resident.
> 
> Also, if there is transition period, it wont end 2020. There is build-in provision to extend talks for 2 years or more, if needed. Its already been said that extra 2 year will be needed due to all these delays.


You can spend several months at a time outside Spain as a registered resident. 

Once you are a 'permanent' resident after 5 years, you can in fact leave for up to 2 years.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

My time in Spain has just reached 5 years today and presumably I am now classed as permanent. So.....what are the benefits or how will I gain from being a permanent resident?

Steve


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Steve.

Albeit that the green cert of residence does not say it, you need to apply now to become permanent. It is not automatic

You need to make the appointment online and when you attend the office you will need to prove your income and full medical cover, in the same way you did five years ago

This might help :-


TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE POLICE FOR NIE, E.U. Citizen registration, etc.

As you go through you will find links to the application forms and the payment, at any bank, form 

.• GO TO https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplus/ 

• PROVINCES AVAILABLE: CHOOSE the province where your are living/ staying 

• SECTIONS AVAILABLE IN PROVINCE: OPEN PAGE AND SELECT SECTION REQUIRED

e.g. “policía certificado de residente o no residente” (that includes NIE application)
NOTE there is now a special section for UK citizens which must be chosen that is “Polica-Certificada EU (Exclusivamente para Reina Unido)

• ENTER THE DETAILS OF APPLICANT. if you have an NIE show that, if not then show your passport number 

• CHOOSE NATIONAL POLICE STATION FOR APPOINTMENT: The one that covers the area where you live 
Motivo o tipo de solicitud de la cita, show reason for requesting appointment

• CHOOSE AN APPOINTMENT, AND THEN CONFIRM. If the office you require us not shown that means there are no appointments available at the moment so please try again later 

• You must PRINT A COPY OF THE APPOINTMENT, and take it with you to the police station
You can find info here in english about completing the EX15


http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consul...E 2018 - TRANSLATED NIE FORM 2018 - GUIDE.pdf


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

EverHopeful said:


> I don't believe you can move to the EU without a visa during the transition period. As I understand it, the UK will exit (who knows when) and then move into a transition period, if there is a deal, and AFAIK the EU has already issued the rules that will apply during that transition period. If someone thinks differently, perhaps they should include an appropriate link to the information they are relying on.


All the rules remain the same for EU citizens who move to the UK and take up residence in Britain and of course for
British citizens who move to one of the EU 27 countries and take up residence during the transition period. 
So we've been told by HMG & the EU.
No visa required during the transition period therefore the only difference is that British MEP's will no longer sit 
in the European Parliament.

Of course if Britain leaves the EU without a deal - then there's no transition period at all.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Juan C said:


> Steve.
> 
> Albeit that the green cert of residence does not say it, you need to apply now to become permanent. It is not automatic
> 
> ...


Under EU rules you automatically become a permanent resident after five years of continuously living legally in Spain but if you want to swap your A4 green paper for a new credit card size document containing the words "residente con caracter permanente" you will need to make an application and pay the appropriate fee. You do not need to show evidence of income or medical cover, as with a first-time application. You only need to show evidence that you have lived continuously and legally in Spain for five years, which is pretty simple. However, according to the local press this week Madrid has ordered all police stations to stop processing residency applications from Brits. They have a picture of a sign at Benidorm police station advising that all applications must be made via the foreigners´ office in Alicante. Presumably this is because of Brexit and the fact that all Brits will need to replace their residency certificates with a TIE before much longer! Having a card confirming that you are a permanent resident will make the application for a TIE an automatic, no questions asked process. Without one there will be a need to produce a little more paperwork.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> All the rules remain the same for EU citizens who move to the UK and take up residence in Britain and of course for
> British citizens who move to one of the EU 27 countries and take up residence during the transition period.
> So we've been told by HMG & the EU.
> No visa required during the transition period therefore the only difference is that British MEP's will no longer sit
> ...


I stand corrected and have ow found this (in French) since you chose not to provide a link, although I had requested one https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/accueil/vous-etes-britannique/droit-au-sejour.html


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

The Skipper said:


> Under EU rules you automatically become a permanent resident after five years of continuously living legally in Spain but if you want to swap your A4 green paper for a new credit card size document containing the words "residente con caracter permanente" you will need to make an application and pay the appropriate fee. You do not need to show evidence of income or medical cover, as with a first-time application. You only need to show evidence that you have lived continuously and legally in Spain for five years, which is pretty simple. However, according to the local press this week Madrid has ordered all police stations to stop processing residency applications from Brits. They have a picture of a sign at Benidorm police station advising that all applications must be made via the foreigners´ office in Alicante. Presumably this is because of Brexit and the fact that all Brits will need to replace their residency certificates with a TIE before much longer! Having a card confirming that you are a permanent resident will make the application for a TIE an automatic, no questions asked process. Without one there will be a need to produce a little more paperwork.


I’m afraid that’s not correct. Whilst the EU says that, it is up to the country concerned as to what they ask for re applying for a permanent residency card as you described. 
I know this because we have recently applied for ours. We had to show everything we showed originally. This was questioned on the forum so I wrote to the Citizens section of the EU and received this response 




> Dear Madam,
> 
> Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.
> 
> ...



So, yes it’s automatic but equally, yes if the authorities in your area require proof of income etc they are within their rights


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> I’m afraid that’s not correct. Whilst the EU says that, it is up to the country concerned as to what they ask for re applying for a permanent residency card as you described.
> I know this because we have recently applied for ours. We had to show everything we showed originally. This was questioned on the forum so I wrote to the Citizens section of the EU and received this response
> 
> 
> ...


I am astonished to read this as it contradicts everything I have read from various other sources and it certainly has not been my experience or the experience of numerous other people that I have read about. I applied for my permanent residency card last year at Alcoy police station and it could not have been a more simple, hassle-free process. The lady who processed my application questioned why I was doing it because she said I was already a permanent resident due to the length of time I had lived in Spain and did not therefore need a new bit of paper to prove it. I explained to her my fears about Brexit and she said that was fine, if I wanted a card with "permanente" on it that was not a problem. My wife accompanied me but could not get her own appointment until a few days later. However, when I explained this the lady said that was not a problem and issued her with a new card as well (we had all her paperwork with us in the hope that this might prove possible). We took with us only our passports, our original A4 green residency forms (issued in 2008), up-to-date padrons and the proof of payment forms (exactly as advised by an expat web site that this forum´s rules do not allow me to mention!). I suppose I should not be too surprised that other parts of Spain do things differently!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Whether one chooses to take one view on this based differing experiences is for the individual. However if you take the paperwork I showed and the officials do not need it, great. If you do not take it and you are not permitted to make the application you will need to make another appointment to produce the paperwork. 

It’s your choice


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

The Skipper said:


> I am astonished to read this as it contradicts everything I have read from various other sources and it certainly has not been my experience or the experience of numerous other people that I have read about. I applied for my permanent residency card last year at Alcoy police station and it could not have been a more simple, hassle-free process. The lady who processed my application questioned why I was doing it because she said I was already a permanent resident due to the length of time I had lived in Spain and did not therefore need a new bit of paper to prove it. I explained to her my fears about Brexit and she said that was fine, if I wanted a card with "permanente" on it that was not a problem. My wife accompanied me but could not get her own appointment until a few days later. However, when I explained this the lady said that was not a problem and issued her with a new card as well (we had all her paperwork with us in the hope that this might prove possible). We took with us only our passports, our original A4 green residency forms (issued in 2008), up-to-date padrons and the proof of payment forms (exactly as advised by an expat web site that this forum´s rules do not allow me to mention!). I suppose I should not be too surprised that other parts of Spain do things differently!




As was I, we applied originally and we were told to return with the relevant documents. I then contacted my solicitor who told us, that yes, here in Extremadura, that was indeed the case. So we returned with the relevant documents and got our residente permanente.

That’s why I contacted the EU citizens section of the EU. Also, as has recently been declared, can’t find link but I’ll keep checking. The requirements for a transfer to a TIE have been devolved to each Regional government. 

As you say, I am also surprised that people don’t realise things vary from one region , one town and one village to another

Edited 

Interesting that you became resident before the changes in 2012; I wonder if this has a relevance on it. We arrived in 2014 after the income , healthcare etc rules were introduced?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> Interesting that you became resident before the changes in 2012; I wonder if this has a relevance on it. We arrived in 2014 after the income , healthcare etc rules were introduced?


I wonder that too. We first registered as residents on 1 February 2007 and obtained our new permanent resident certificates in October 2014, in Torre del Mar, Andalucia. We were only asked for the same things as The Skipper was, but it has been mentioned on this forum more recently that people requesting permanent resident certificates had been asked to provide proof of sufficient income and healthcare, at the same office. A couple of weeks ago my husband had to replace his as it had been lost, and that was no problem, we were not asked to provide any additional documentation (other than a copy of the denuncia made to the Policia Nacional to report the loss).


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> As was I, we applied originally and we were told to return with the relevant documents. I then contacted my solicitor who told us, that yes, here in Extremadura, that was indeed the case. So we returned with the relevant documents and got our residente permanente.
> 
> That’s why I contacted the EU citizens section of the EU. Also, as has recently been declared, can’t find link but I’ll keep checking. The requirements for a transfer to a TIE have been devolved to each Regional government.
> 
> ...


All that was required from me to get my residente permanente in the Principado de Asturias last year
was the *Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social report on my work history*
since arriving to start work in Spain back in 2013.
It's sent to me automatically by post every 3 years and lists my working history, together with an
itemised list of my gross monthly salary, that's notified by my employer to the Ministerio de Empleo
y Seguridad Social.

This working history report ticked all the boxes and was more than sufficient for me to get my residente permanente other than my Passport and my old green residente card. Nothing more was needed
from me.

In fact I took it to the appointment for my application for residente permanente before I even knew
what would be expected from me because anything from the Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social
is accepted without quibble.

Here's an example below:


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

One way of Proving income and medical cover is to prove that one is employed in Spain . 

That applies equally whether applying for the first temporary green cert or the permanent one after five years


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Williams2 said:


> All that was required from me to get my residente permanente in the Principado de Asturias last year
> was the *Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social report on my work history*
> since arriving to start work in Spain back in 2013.
> It's sent to me automatically by post every 3 years and lists my working history, together with an
> ...


So, in fact you had to prove income and healthcare via the work. No difference to me then 
Income. Autónomo And savings 
HC because I’m autónomo
Original residency certificate 

So yes, we provided the same with no quibble. The quibble was when we arrived with non of those documents.


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

trotter58 said:


> Not really answering your question _*but why 8 or 9 months? If you can limit your visits to around 6 months per year, 2 to 3 months at a time, why not remain UK resident? *_
> 
> Saving & investments have better tax treatment in the UK, you can leave your (spare) UK car in Spain for up to 12 months and you can (currently) use your EHIC card and relatively cheap annual travel insurance to provide health care.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That's just what I envisage I may have to do. The main period would be winter where I would like to spend something like Jan-may in Spain and again some time in the Autumn. With a few other weeks here and there I envisage it being around 8 months total in most years. This would obviously contravene any 90/180 regs hence my question on the best way to deal with it and access to healthcare.

I am looking at Villas within an hour of the airport with access to services that we would require. I am not averse to a nice urbanisation.

This is turning out to be a useful and informative thread. thanks everyone. Three days work to go


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks for all the information and advice. In answer to my original posting at #38 what are the benefits of being Permanent? and will it make any difference, to save all the hassle, if i don't apply for permanent status? Ive always paid any dues, taxes etc, that have been requested of me.

Steve


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> Thanks for all the information and advice. In answer to my original posting at #38 what are the benefits of being Permanent? and will it make any difference, to save all the hassle, if i don't apply for permanent status? Ive always paid any dues, taxes etc, that have been requested of me.
> 
> Steve


After Brexit all British residents in Spain will need to apply for a Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero, a plastic credit-card size card with your photo and, I think, fingerprint (all non-EU residents have these now). If you already have a residency document saying that you are a permanent resident the TIE will be given to you as a hassle-free swap with no need to produce any other documentation. Without a residence document that says "residente permanente" you may be required to provide proof that you have lived continuously and legally in Spain for the past five years. That´s my understanding of it, at least for Alicante province residents, but no doubt someone will say it´s different in their part of Spain!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Good news for the OP today is that he has an extra 3 months from his planned date of retirement 
( was it this week ? ) to move to Spain and get into residencia before the next Brexit date of 31st January.

The only downside is fewer and fewer Brit's have faith in HMG and Tory government promises.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

The Never Ending Story.

Edit:
I thought there were some conditions around that extension, not sure that one wasn't that the UK could exit earlier should it decide to do so - not that the UK has a fantastic record on decision making. Apparently there is something in writing from the EU27 till to come.


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit (Oct 25, 2019)

Williams2 said:


> Good news for the OP today is that he has an extra 3 months from his planned date of retirement
> ( was it this week ? ) to move to Spain and get into residencia before the next Brexit date of 31st January.
> 
> The only downside is fewer and fewer Brit's have faith in HMG and Tory government promises.


Which promise is that? One about pie in sky or about 31st do/die?

"When a man repeats a promise again and again, he means to fail you."
English Proverb


----------



## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

Williams2 said:


> Good news for the OP today is that he has an extra 3 months from his planned date of retirement
> ( was it this week ? ) to move to Spain and get into residencia before the next Brexit date of 31st January.
> 
> The only downside is fewer and fewer Brit's have faith in HMG and Tory government promises.


Was expecting 31/1 extension to happen but pushing it to get everything done before then. I just hope the longer it goes on the less likely it is to happen :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

trotter58 said:


> Not really answering your question but why 8 or 9 months? If you can limit your visits to around 6 months per year, 2 to 3 months at a time, why not remain UK resident?
> 
> Saving & investments have better tax treatment in the UK, *you can leave your (spare) UK car in Spain for up to 12 months *and you can (currently) use your EHIC card and relatively cheap annual travel insurance to provide health care.
> 
> ...


Can you bring it out before 12 months is up and then take it back in again for another 12 month period?


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Rheumatoid said:


> Can you bring it out before 12 months is up and then take it back in again for another 12 month period?


Yes. We take our car back to the UK at the start of summer for it's MOT & servicing and return to Spain in autumn. The car must remain fully UK street legal while in Spain, Tax, MOT and insured, no SORN out here! 
If you're going down this route then I would suggest that you insure the car with a Spanish broker. We use Liberty Seguros and the insurance includes breakdown cover. The insurer also appears on the MiB database in the UK.
https://www.libertyexpatriates.es/

HTH


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## Rheumatoid (Mar 3, 2016)

trotter58 said:


> Yes. We take our car back to the UK at the start of summer for it's MOT & servicing and return to Spain in autumn. The car must remain fully UK street legal while in Spain, Tax, MOT and insured, no SORN out here!
> If you're going down this route then I would suggest that you insure the car with a Spanish broker. We use Liberty Seguros and the insurance includes breakdown cover. The insurer also appears on the MiB database in the UK.
> https://www.libertyexpatriates.es/
> 
> HTH


Thanks. Is this only made possible due to us being in the EU or is it something that will still be possible post exit?


----------



## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Rheumatoid said:


> Thanks. Is this only made possible due to us being in the EU or is it something that will still be possible post exit?


This is possible with current EU rules.

God alone knows what will happen after our self-serving idiots in parliament have finished dithering about. If we get some sort of deal I doubt much will change. You may need an IDP, a visa and get stamps on your passport but at the end of the day Spain needs tourism & income from retired brit's. 
I don't think their going to cut off their nose to spite their face.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rheumatoid said:


> Thanks. Is this only made possible due to us being in the EU or is it something that will still be possible post exit?


It's an EU thing.

Regardless of that, it's only possible if you are not resident in Spain, because it's illegal for a resident to drive a foreign plated vehicle which they own.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

trotter58 said:


> This is possible with current EU rules.
> 
> God alone knows what will happen after our self-serving idiots in parliament have finished dithering about. If we get some sort of deal I doubt much will change. You may need an IDP, a visa and get stamps on your passport but at the end of the day Spain needs tourism & income from retired brit's.
> I don't think their going to cut off their nose to spite their face.


As you say, very little will change for tourists - just a bit more paperwork & less freedom as far as how long they can stay.

Retired Brits living on just a state pension won't be able to move here as they do now though, assuming Brits are treated the same as any other 3rd country national. 

Their income simply won't be enough to secure a visa.


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## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

baldilocks said:


> As an EU citizen, you will need to register as a resident in Spain if you wish to be here more than 90 days continuously. More than 182 days in a year and you become a tax resident automatically and Spain taxes you on your worldwide income. Presumably you will not qualify for a S1 so you will need to have private medical insurance with no co-pay and the cost of this may depend on pre-existing conditions.


A question about this. Would a day trip to Gibraltar or Portugal reset the clock on the 90 day rule to register?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

m2m2012 said:


> A question about this. Would a day trip to Gibraltar or Portugal reset the clock on the 90 day rule to register?


Don't think it works anymore. A lot of criminals took advantage of it decades ago. Remember Ronnie Knight and a few more gangsters.


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit (Oct 25, 2019)

m2m2012 said:


> A question about this. Would a day trip to Gibraltar or Portugal reset the clock on the 90 day rule to register?


No it wont. Rule is dead simple, you can spend 90 days in 180 days period when you
enter Schengen area. If you leave after 90 days, you have 0 days allowance to enter in next 90 days. If you leave before 90 days, you keep XX unused days that you can use in your next visit, within 180 days window of your 1st visit.

Last time I checked Portugal was part of said area. :eyebrows:


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Of course Gibraltar isn't in EU or Schengen, so any time you spend in Gib won't count towards 90 days allowed in Schengen (but it won't reset the 90-day clock, as explained). As your passport is unlikely to be stamped on entering and leaving Gib (this may change after Brexit), keep other pieces of evidence such as accommodation receipts.


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## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

b0ll0cks-to-brexit said:


> No it wont. Rule is dead simple, you can spend 90 days in 180 days period when you
> enter Schengen area. If you leave after 90 days, you have 0 days allowance to enter in next 90 days. If you leave before 90 days, you keep XX unused days that you can use in your next visit, within 180 days window of your 1st visit.
> 
> Last time I checked Portugal was part of said area. :eyebrows:


You're mixing things up I think; I'm talking about the need of an EU citizen (such as Portugal, France, etc. who are from the Schengen area) needing to register in Spain. I've never seen any mention of "90 days *in 180 days*" for registration. As far as I'm aware it's 90 days consecutive.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The only way to avoid registering as an EU resident in Spain is to reside less than 90 days.

If you rent or buy a home and use it as one, that is your residence. A day trip to Gib or Portugal does not change that.

If, on the other hand you were in Spain for 85 days, then went to Portugal and set up residence there for 85 days, then came back to Spain..... surely not worth the hassle?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

xabiaxica said:


> As you say, very little will change for tourists - just a bit more paperwork & less freedom as far as how long they can stay.
> 
> Retired Brits living on just a state pension won't be able to move here as they do now though, assuming Brits are treated the same as any other 3rd country national.
> 
> Their income simply won't be enough to secure a visa.


Before Spain entered the EU they allowed a British state pension as proof of income for residencia. It doesn't mean that they would now but they could do.


----------



## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

Overandout said:


> The only way to avoid registering as an EU resident in Spain is to reside less than 90 days.
> 
> If you rent or buy a home and use it as one, that is your residence. A day trip to Gib or Portugal does not change that.
> 
> If, on the other hand you were in Spain for 85 days, then went to Portugal and set up residence there for 85 days, then came back to Spain..... surely not worth the hassle?


If you buy a house in Spain is does not mean you reside in Spain! Think about it. People own holiday houses in Spain that sit empty for most of the year. That's why Spain has a special tax on houses owned by foreigners who do not reside in Spain.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

m2m2012 said:


> If you buy a house in Spain is does not mean you reside in Spain! Think about it. People own holiday houses in Spain that sit empty for most of the year. That's why Spain has a special tax on houses owned by foreigners who do not reside in Spain.


@Overandout was quite specific and said "home" not house.

A HOME is where you spend the majority of your time and so they were quite correct and you MUST be a resident.


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## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

snikpoh said:


> @Overandout was quite specific and said "home" not house.
> 
> A HOME is where you spend the majority of your time and so they were quite correct and you MUST be a resident.


I'm not talking about houses or homes as it has nothing to do with registration (you could be staying with a friend or camping wild or living in a caravan). On a 4 month holiday staying in hotels you would have to register...again nothing to do with home or houses.

I'm talking about when an EU citizen is required by law to register. Rule says if you plan to stay more than 90 days you must register. I cannot find ANY reference to "90 days in a 180 day period"...you'd think they'd mention that as it's not a minor detail.

You guys might be correct but why is what you are saying not in writing?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

The right to stay 90 days in The Schengen area, in 180 days is what may happen if U.K. leave the eu without an agreement.

As stated if as an EU national one moves to spain (makes it their centre of economic activity) they are tax resident immediately. 

If they do not move but stay 183 days in a year then they become tax resident . 

If they do neither but remain in Spain PERMANENTLY (on holiday) for 90 days they are required to register as an EU citizen but do not become tax resident 

Good luck


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## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

Juan C said:


> The right to stay 90 days in The Schengen area, in 180 days is what may happen if U.K. leave the eu without an agreement.
> 
> As stated if as an EU national one moves to spain (makes it their centre of economic activity) they are tax resident immediately.
> 
> ...


Incorrect information. Good luck to you.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

m2m2012 said:


> Incorrect information. Good luck to you.


Actually, it's perfectly correct.

What don't you agree with?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It's perfectly possible for Brits and other EU citizens to spend much longer than 90 days in Spain and not register, because there aren't any checks. Unless you actually commit a serious crime you can't be deported. Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people have done so. 

Once the UK leaves the EU however, Brits won't be protected by the Freedom of Movement principle. They will be regarded as undocumented migrants (what some people call "illegals") if they don't register and get a TIE.


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## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

snikpoh said:


> Actually, it's perfectly correct.
> 
> What don't you agree with?


Does this make sense to you?:

"...remain in Spain PERMANENTLY (on holiday) for 90 days..."

Explain it to me please if you do?

Second; he wrote:

"As stated if as an EU national one moves to spain (makes it their centre of economic activity) they are tax resident immediately."

Wrong! My goodness. If you arrive in Spain with the intention to live forever but after a couple of months you hate it and return to the UK or USA you are not a tax resident of Spain. The thought in your mind when you arrive doesn't make you a tax resident of Spain. That's what he's saying above, he used the word "immediately" after relocating. You don't became a tax resident of a country because you will it. Need to spend a certain amount of time in a country for that to happen.


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## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

Alcalaina said:


> It's perfectly possible for Brits and other EU citizens to spend much longer than 90 days in Spain and not register, because there aren't any checks. Unless you actually commit a serious crime you can't be deported. Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people have done so.
> 
> Once the UK leaves the EU however, Brits won't be protected by the Freedom of Movement principle. They will be regarded as undocumented migrants (what some people call "illegals") if they don't register and get a TIE.


You're correct, with no hard borders between Spain and France or Portugal they cannot know when you arrived or departed. 

I'm trying to make a different point though; I would like to see something in writing saying the registration rule is more than 90 days per 180 days, rather than 90 days consecutive.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

m2m2012 said:


> You're correct, with no hard borders between Spain and France or Portugal they cannot know when you arrived or departed.
> 
> I'm trying to make a different point though; I would like to see something in writing saying the registration rule is more than 90 days per 180 days, rather than 90 days consecutive.


Eventually, even if British citizens don't need to apply for a Schengen visa in order to visit a Schengen country, as 3rd country citizens they will still be subject to the same rules. Unless of course some 'special' agreement is reached at some point in future negotiations. 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/



> The Uniform Schengen Visa stands for a permit of one of the Schengen Area Member Countries to transit or reside in the desired territory for a certain period of time up to the maximum of 90 days every six month period starting from the date of entry.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

m2m2012 said:


> A question about this. Would a day trip to Gibraltar or Portugal reset the clock on the 90 day rule to register?


Technically, as an EU citizen, yes.

But not as a non-EU citizen.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Isobella said:


> Before Spain entered the EU they allowed a British state pension as proof of income for residencia. It doesn't mean that they would now but they could do.


They could, but can you really see the UK being given special treatment or any special deals once it leaves the EU? 


For pensioners on a UK state pension a lot will depend upon a future bilateral healthcare agreement, & with it possibly costing the UK less than it costs to treat the however many S1 holders there are, I'm not convinced that it will continue for very long into the future. 

IMO Spain is more likely to want a considerable increase in payments from the UK. 

Anyone on a UK pension wouldn't be able to afford private heathcare insurance, especially if, as is likely in the older population, there are pre-exisiting conditions.

Also, they would have to pay full cost of any prescribed medication. One of my daughters has an inhaler which would cost us over 80€ if we had to pay full price.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

m2m2012 said:


> If you buy a house in Spain is does not mean you reside in Spain! Think about it. People own holiday houses in Spain that sit empty for most of the year. *That's why Spain has a special tax on houses owned by foreigners who do not reside in Spain*.


No, Spain doesn't have that.

What it does have is a tax on any property in Spain which isn't the home of the owner, & that applies to Spanish nationals & residents of Spain, too.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

As say xabiaxica , all properties in addition to principle home. 

That includes storerooms, garage spaces in community garage, etc.

Those who are tax resident in spain also pay the imputed tax when they make their annual tax declaration, not only in relation to other un-let properties they own in spain but anywhere worldwide. For example un-let property U.K. I pay it (in spain) on a property my wife owns in Asia


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm not sure how prevalent this practice is amongst the Swallows but a self confessed one 
( with Residencia in Spain ) says that one of the best things about keeping his own
house in the UK ( and not renting it out ) where he and his wife live during their Summer
months in the UK, is access to free NHS treatment in the UK as well as in Spain.

As all he has to provide is:

* Proof of your purchase of property or a tenancy agreement
* Recent utility or council tax bill payment
* UK bank account showing recent UK activity

He even sent me the url address of the website.

Using the NHS when you return to live in the UK

Although this looks terribly sneaky to me - he reckons it's their insurance policy against
a No Deal Brexit.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

William

I live in spain. 

As a U.K. national when I visit , or if I return to live in U.K. I am always entitled to free NHS treatment. 

There is no requirement to own anything at all in U.K. to exercise that Right.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Juan C said:


> William
> 
> I live in spain.
> 
> ...


That's interesting Juan C. do you also use the services of the Spanish heath system as well ?

Anyway no doubt Xabiaxica will have the final say as to what looks like 'dual residency for healthcare'

My understanding is that its not strictly legal.

I'm sure the OP would also be interested in the answer to this question as well, as it looks like
he intends to follow a Swallows lifestyle and one his big concerns is healthcare.

I've also come across several Brit's who have inherited their parents house, after they passed 
away and might want to hang onto it as a 2nd home or even to retire back to the UK.
So free NHS treatment for having property in the UK, that they will no doubt call their second
home is a consideration - for ticking one of the boxes as proof as mentioned on the link 
on the Gov.uk website.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Williams2 said:


> That's interesting Juan C. do you also use the services of the Spanish heath system as well ?
> 
> Anyway no doubt Xabiaxica will have the final say as to what looks like 'dual residency for healthcare'


William I came to Spain over 30 years ago aged 48 with a DWP Incapacity pension and have been registered on the health service ever since.

Final say. The DWP web page confirms what I posted.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Juan C said:


> William
> 
> I live in spain.
> 
> ...


As long as you access healthcare here via an S1.

As a worker accessing healthcare that way, I need to use my TSE & only have 'holidaymaker' rights to healthcare in the UK & the rest of the EU.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> As long as you access healthcare here via an S1.
> 
> As a worker accessing healthcare that way, I need to use my TSE & only have 'holidaymaker' rights to healthcare in the UK & the rest of the EU.


Also to add, as I found out. If you are over 60 and are a U.K. citizen, you are entitled to free eye test.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Interesting. I was refused a free eye test in U.K., specifically to check for glaucoma (my mother had it so free tests for family members of any age) because I did not live in U.K. 

Thanks Megsmum. If situation arises again I will be more insistent


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I was also refused a free eye test in the UK, three years ago. So maybe that's something new?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Juan C said:


> Interesting. I was refused a free eye test in U.K., specifically to check for glaucoma (my mother had it so free tests for family members of any age) because I did not live in U.K.
> 
> Thanks Megsmum. If situation arises again I will be more insistent


But you can have it done in Spain, can't you?


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But you can have it done in Spain, can't you?


Yes, it's free for everyone in Spain. And they do all the glaucoma tests etc routinely.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, it's free for everyone in Spain. And they do all the glaucoma tests etc routinely.


At least in Andalucía


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> At least in Andalucía


Here in Valencia too. 

It seems to be standard with all opticians - at least as far as the several different ones I've used here over the years are concerned. They don't even ask if there's a family history - they just do the test.

The only one which didn't do it automatically was a well-known 'British' franchise here. I had to ask for it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> That's interesting Juan C. do you also use the services of the Spanish heath system as well ?
> 
> Anyway no doubt Xabiaxica will have the final say as to what looks like 'dual residency for healthcare'
> 
> ...




British citizens who access state healthcare in Spain or anywhere else in the EU via an S1, are currently entitled to the same access to the NHS as a UK resident.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Interesting. I was refused a free eye test in U.K., specifically to check for glaucoma (my mother had it so free tests for family members of any age) because I did not live in U.K.
> 
> Thanks Megsmum. If situation arises again I will be more insistent





Alcalaina said:


> I was also refused a free eye test in the UK, three years ago. So maybe that's something new?





xabiaxica said:


> British citizens who access state healthcare in Spain or anywhere else in the EU via an S1, are currently entitled to the same access to the NHS as a UK resident.


We don’t have an S1

We were both told in two separate opticians. Didn’t matter that we didn’t live In the U.K. providing we were U.K. citizens we could have free eye tests 

I fact, I actually said , I’m not entitled This was double checked and I was told no problem

We can access free tests here but via the healthcare system for free, which has a 6 month wait period. Otherwise we pay, well that’s what I’ve been told?


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> We don’t have an S1
> 
> We were both told in two separate opticians. Didn’t matter that we didn’t live In the U.K. providing we were U.K. citizens we could have free eye tests
> 
> ...


Well Free Eye tests for all British citizens in the UK regardless of country of residence is news to me - if that's true without
the S1 ?
It would certainly save time and give more choice, Spain or the UK while visiting friends and family.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Some Opticians in UK offer free tests but I suppose it is added on the price if glasses are bought.

How would you be able to prove someone in the family had glaucoma? do you just tell them?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> Well Free Eye tests for all British citizens in the UK regardless of country of residence is news to me - if that's true without
> the S1 ?
> It would certainly save time and give more choice, Spain or the UK while visiting friends and family.


I am called by the hospital each year. I always have an argument with the nurse who wants to put some drops in my eyes before going in - I ask her what they contain and she doesn't know, so I refuse to let her put them in. They contain Benzalkonium Chloride as a preservative to which I (as are many other people) am allergic and has been responsible for the damage to my corneas such that I can no longer see properly without using my own solution. Good isn't it, my eyesight has been seriously compromised by the drops prescribed by the ophthalmologist for glaucoma.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Some Opticians in UK offer free tests but I suppose it is added on the price if glasses are bought.
> 
> How would you be able to prove someone in the family had glaucoma? do you just tell them?


Yes, AFAIK

I never buy from the opticians, I just ask for the prescription.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, it's free for everyone in Spain. And they do all the glaucoma tests etc routinely.


Exactly, so there's really no reason for UK citizens who are resident in Spain to get a free eye test in the UK as it's free here in Spain too, unless there's not an optician near you in Spain...


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Exactly, so there's really no reason for UK citizens who are resident in Spain to get a free eye test in the UK as it's free here in Spain too, unless there's not an optician near you in Spain...


That’s nit what I’ve been told here, but I will check again today with a friend. Free eye tests here are only with the state healthcare eye tests and the appointment is at least 6 months wait otherwise it’s an opticians and they will not give you the prescription unless you buy glasses from them

I will check that out again today though as I may well have misunderstood


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Exactly, so there's really no reason for UK citizens who are resident in Spain to get a free eye test in the UK as it's free here in Spain too, unless there's not an optician near you in Spain...


At one point (not so much now) glasses and lenses were much cheaper in the UK so it made sense to get it all done whle you were over there visiting relatives or whatever.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> That’s nit what I’ve been told here, but I will check again today with a friend. Free eye tests here are only with the state healthcare eye tests and the appointment is at least 6 months wait otherwise it’s an opticians and they will not give you the prescription unless you buy glasses from them
> 
> I will check that out again today though as I may well have misunderstood


Private opticians don't charge for eye tests. They aren't allowed to.

I would imagine that it does apply to residents - but in 16 years no-one has ever asked if I'm resident, not even in the early days when I barely spoke enough Spanish to get through the eye test.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Just as an aside 

I need reading glasses.

A couple of years ago I had a cataract operation on one eye. It means I now need different strength lenses, 1.25 one eye, 3.50 the other 

Over thirty years ago I had my eyes tested by a specialist in Harley Street. He said that if I did not want ‘posh’ frames to buy the cheapest reading glasses I could find as the lenses were all same 

Since then I followed his advice. 

With my requirement for different strength lenses , I now buy two pairs in the market, with identical frames. One 1.25 the other 3.50. I then remove one lens from each frame replacing it with the lens of the other strength. i then have ‘prescription’ reading glasses for about 10 euros.


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