# kitchen sink P-trap



## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

In this fancy condo I'm renting the kitchen sink drain does not have a P-trap. Here's an image of a P-trap installation:

http://plumbtite.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/DSC03463b.jpg

For my sink, the drain goes straight down, does a 90 degree elbow turn and goes horizontally into the wall. 

The result is that it periodically puts out a sewage smell. The way the P-trap prevents this is water sits in the J bend and blocks smelly air from the drain coming up. 

So much for the plumbing lesson. My question is, is it reasonable in mexico to ask that the apartment owner install a P-trap? Or if that's not reasonable, is it reasonable for me to offer to pay to have one installed if the apartment owner will allow it and choose the plumber? I can't imagine it would be very expensive, with labor rates here as low as they are. It's half an hour to an hour's work. Parts are maybe $20 from Home Depot. 

Or is there some good reason why they have intentionally not installed a P-trap - like they clog up too much because stupid renters from the US don't have the sense to not treat a kitchen sink without a garbage disposal as if it had one.

Speaking of in-sink disposals, is that done here ever? In this apartment there's not even a wall switch behind the sink so it's apparently not been imagined that one would ever be installed. I can do without a disposal, but it's worth $50 to me to get rid of the smell as I'm going to be living here at least a year. But I'm paying enough in rent I was thinking I could ask them to pay for it as an initial bargaining position.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

My experience is that landlord will build apartments as cheap as they can. Although I have a p-trap on my bathroom sink, this is none on the toilet nor the shower. To expensive since the water would have to run uphill. 

Like wiring conventions. What color of wire is used for hot and neutral? Whatever was the cheapest.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Sounds like a 300-350 peso size job. You might visit someplace like HomeDepot (or such) and pick up the PVC joints etc.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

joaquinx said:


> My experience is that landlord will build apartments as cheap as they can. Although I have a p-trap on my bathroom sink, this is none on the toilet nor the shower. To expensive since the water would have to run uphill.
> 
> Like wiring conventions. What color of wire is used for hot and neutral? Whatever was the cheapest.


I am far from a plumber - but - you can install a tube (and seal it) into the shower drain BELOW the water level and that SHOULD prevent odor seepage.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

eastwind:
What is worse than the sewer gas entering your home is the roaches and other nasty bugs entering through the non- trap sink...direct connections and drum type traps are not even allowed in the USA, only P-traps allowed....I would just have a local install one if you can not.........
Joaquinx:
Of course there is a trap on the toilet, it is built in when manufactured, if you did not have a trap on the WC there would be no water sitting in the bowl to keep fumes and rats out of your home. There is probably a drum trap in the shower but being underground you just can not see it. If you can see it and there is not any type of trap put a sink type ( 3" diameter flat rubber ) over the drain to help keep fumes out when shower is not in use.........


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> eastwind:
> What is worse than the sewer gas entering your home is the roaches and other nasty bugs entering through the non- trap sink...direct connections and drum type traps are not even allowed in the USA, only P-traps allowed....I would just have a local install one if you can not.........
> Joaquinx:
> Of course there is a trap on the toilet, it is built in when manufactured, if you did not have a trap on the WC there would be no water sitting in the bowl to keep fumes and rats out of your home. There is probably a drum trap in the shower but being underground you just can not see it. If you can see it and there is not any type of trap put a sink type ( 3" diameter flat rubber ) over the drain to help keep fumes out when shower is not in use.........


You are correct. Thanks for the correction. I was going to respond to the previous post and say that I was present when they installed a drain that went uphill and it fail the flush test and the sink, trap or no trap, would not drain. There are many who can lay pipe, but few are plumbers.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

eastwind said:


> Speaking of in-sink disposals, is that done here ever?


The house we bought had a disposal system at the kitchen sink - and it is still there (just checked) but in four years we have never used it. Here is a heads up - for something like 250 USD you can install a reverse osmosis system at your kitchen sink and have drinkable water.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

joaquinx said:


> You are correct. Thanks for the correction. I was going to respond to the previous post and say that I was present when they installed a drain that went uphill and it fail the flush test and the sink, trap or no trap, would not drain. There are many who can lay pipe, but few are plumbers.


I'm a retired plumber, 50 years, local #38,San Francisco,CA,USA



Gato, if you see water in the shower there is a trap.......what tube are you describing?


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

chicois8 said:


> I'm a retired plumber, 50 years, local #38,San Francisco,CA,USA
> 
> 
> 
> Gato, if you see water in the shower there is a trap.......what tube are you describing?


We have a traditional Mexican home - about 20 years old. In the master bath there is a shower/large bathtub (distinct), and toilet. The room has a drain in the center of the room for cleaning (I guess).

The bathroom is significantly higher than the septic system.
We only have odor issues when it rains.

It seems like if we go 2 days without using the shower we get odors - which has led me to believe that I need to extend a tube into the shower drain - deep enough - to prevent air seepage. A vacuum of sorts.

Does that make sense /


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I hadn't thought about the roaches coming up through the drain, thanks. That pretty much makes it a no-brainer to spend the pesos. I may just have it done without asking. 

For most things like this I think I'm supposed to get the full-time condo maintenance guys to do the work, providing the parts myself, then tip them (they're getting a meager salary from the condo association dues already). But they did such a screwy job fixing the wiring that I'm almost tempted to try it by myself first. I replaced a disposal once and screwed up getting the trap compression joint back together so it leaked when a lot of water was poured down the drain all at once, maybe the second try's the charm.

Maybe this time I'll watch a youtube video first so I'm an expert


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Gatos, 
The problem with plumbing in Mexico is the lack of vents that direct sewer gases from sceptic tanks and sewers away from homes, In the USA each plumbing fixture has a pipe that goes through the roof (or can be connected together so only 1 penetrates the roof ) to get rid of gases,they also prevent water to be syphoned out of the traps allowing gases to enter homes.

Eastwind:
With costs of labor in Mexico so low why not let a maintenance man do your plumbing for you unless you tube can answer your question...........


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

The following story is why I'm a little reluctant to call the condo maintenance guys for the plumbing work. I live in a hi-rise condo that has a couple guys hired as a full-time maintenance people.

A pair of overhead lights in my apartment weren't working when I moved in. Mostly these spot lights are controlled in groups by switches, but it wasn't clear which switch was supposed to turn them on. There was one switch plate with two switches that looked likely, but one switch turned on the balcony lights, and the other did nothing.

I talked to the condo manager downstairs, and she informed me that the resident is responsible for providing the bulb, but condo maintenance will change them for you. I couldn't figure out how to get the fixture open to get at the old bulb, so she sent someone up to take it apart for me. 

(It turns out that a knife is required, you have to cut through the silicon glue/calk around the plastic ring that attaches to the bottom of the light fixture, then you can get the ring off, and the lens out, and then change the bulb, and then you have to re-glue the ring in place. Fortunately the caulk and the ceiling are both white, and the apartment supplies included the caulk, so this whole procedure is expected).

But when the mantenance guys came the first thing they did was play with the switch, of course, which did nothing. (It apparently takes two Mexicans to change a light bulb, one to change the bulb and the other to tell him how to do it).
Then he looked at the fuse panel, and made sure that was turned on.
Then the one guy doing the work attacked the wall switch with a screwdriver and took it apart (note that the power was on at the time). He discovered a loose wire, which he reattached to the terminal (note that the power was on while he did this). That made the two lights come on, so it was apparently the problem, not the bulbs. He put the whole thing back together, and flicked the switch, and the lights didn't go out. Oops. He'd fixed it so they were on all the time. He flicked the switch back and forth a few times to make sure. Yep, definitely always on.

So he took the thing back apart (note that the power was still on) and messed around with the wiring some more, including the other of the two switches (the one that controlled the balcony lights). When it was all back together he demonstrated that the living room lights go on and off, and the balcony lights go on and off, so I thanked him and tipped him and he left, completely unelectrocuted, as far as I could tell.

Well, it now turns out that to get the balcony lights on, you have to first turn on the living room lights with one switch, and then the other switch can be used to turn on the balcony lights, but with the living room lights off the balcony lights won't come on. I can live with that, I suppose.

So I guess the moral of the story is when doing electrical work, if you don't know what you're doing, it's important to always work with live wires, so you can tell what you're doing.

Now if I call for help with my plumbing, these are the two guys who will come. So should I try to do it myself first? I'm kind of worried the P-trap might end up installed upside down. I guess that would make it an N-trap.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Having worked in construction from the age of 13 and building a couple of houses including an adobe I always feel sorry for folks that are not mechanically inclined ........

On the other hand,without these people there would be no need for my work,Lol.......


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> …
> Well, it now turns out that to get the balcony lights on, you have to first turn on the living room lights with one switch, and then the other switch can be used to turn on the balcony lights, but with the living room lights off the balcony lights won't come on. I can live with that, I suppose.
> …


It would not be too hard for you to fix the problem correctly yourself now that you know it is all in how the two switches are wired. They are obviously wired in series and you want them in parallel.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

I have built many computers from components over the years and I can program that computer to do just about anything you want it to do - but electricity and telephony are two things I have never made an effort to understand. 

@eastwind - maybe flip the breaker before you start playing around. The other thing I do when I swap out a complex outlet (say) is put numbers on tiny pieces of masking tape and place them on the wires (making notes), so I know how it was wired when I started.

There is an excellent website (in US) called doityourself dot com. I have been seeking advice there (from knowledgeable/generous pros) for over a decade. It's free.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

I too am a Trained Tradesmen.. I was a Union Trained Electrician .. Retired after Almost 40 years .. Anyway.. I agree use DIY.com or just search You tube..... its a GREAT source of knowledge.. Look down in the remarks, to assure yourself the person is doing it right. 
Residential Building Codes leave a lot to be desired in Mexico.. add to that there are very few trade schools... Far Too Many learned what little they know from some drunk who had VERY Little knowledge to share when he was sober ...
Its getting better but not everywhere, not everyday. If you have a Lowes or Home Depot go get the P Trap and install it as its installed in the picture.. If you don't have one of those I Suggest taking the picture to your local building supply / hardware store.. Do NOT assume for even a minute that if you say *P Trap *in Spanish the guy behind the counter isn't going to look at you like he hasn't a clue as to what you want.. Believe me BTDT! Hahahaha Electric and just about anything else you do??? Well You all take pictures of your dang dinner with your camera post it on FB , well then make every new project, a photo essay hahahaha and save yourself a lost of cussing and swearing : ) In The USA color may mean something with concern to electrical .. More so above the Mason Dixon Line than below.. This 3 piece set is for home owners my stuff is all Fluke you do NOT Need what I have .. 3 piece set is cheap and all you will ever need.. Shop Southwire Digital Multimeter Meter at Lowes.com The tube unit is a digital non-invasive voltage tester.. LIFE SAVER! Switches.. 2 screws is a single pole ( _On and Off .. Feed on one screw switch leg on the other _) 3 screws is a 3 way _requires 2 switches to operate a device from two locations_... 4 screws is a 4 way I doubt there are more than 10 of those in all of Mexico hahahaha Electrically speaking its between 2 - 3 way switches which allow you to operate a light or device from 3 different locations..


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

When I was having my adobe built I brought down a spool each of red,white and green. I went away for the weekend and when I returned the "electrician" compleatly wired the whole house---in red.......


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Yes - most Mexican 'tradesmen' will claim to be competent electricians, plumbers, painters and masons. 

As I write this we have a very competent plumber, another person who is a competent electrician and another person who is a competent albanil.

What hurts a little is that at one point we had a single team of people who could do those things within themselves as well as hang tv screens from the wals, install RO systems, install the tankless water heater etc... Their fees were very reasonable - but they have grown up to installing PV solar system (big bucks) and no longer have time for our 'little' tasks.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

In Mexico.... Competent is GOOD! :fingerscrossed: Residential is pretty simple but even whats simple...... with no back ground..... no formal education..... having never seen it done right ......... simple can be complicated and confusing.. 




Gatos said:


> Yes - most Mexican 'tradesmen' will claim to be competent electricians, plumbers, painters and masons.
> 
> As I write this we have a very competent plumber, another person who is a competent electrician and another person who is a competent albanil.
> 
> What hurts a little is that at one point we had a single team of people who could do those things within themselves as well as hang tv screens from the wals, install RO systems, install the tankless water heater etc... Their fees were very reasonable - but they have grown up to installing PV solar system (big bucks) and no longer have time for our 'little' tasks.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

DiverSailor123 said:


> In Mexico.... Competent is GOOD! :fingerscrossed: Residential is pretty simple but even whats simple...... with no back ground..... no formal education..... having never seen it done right ......... simple can be complicated and confusing..


When we bought the place the previous owners handed us a bunch of invoices and recommendations for 'tradesmen'. Only problem was that those people seem to have been on a European living expense budget and most of the work they had done was via an architect. They paid through the nose. Often we meet people who say - oh yes - we remember doing work on this house ,,,

After moving in we met some very high class/nice/helpful neighbors who were very willing to give us recommendations for their 'tradesmen'. But what is reasonable to one person might not be to another.

In the case of electrical supplies etc - there is very a large warehouse type store (very large - not Home Depot) and we asked them for recommendations for an electrician. That approach has worked out very well for us.

Finally - we are fortunate in that within a mile of our house we have small operations which do metal works, glass works, carpentry etc - which make their living supporting a large factory in the area. We have dealt with all of them and they are the most generous sincere people you could imagine. We often rely on them for recommendations. In fact - that is how we found our present gardener (should he work out).


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