# Opinion



## Ryland (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,

How many members are happy living in Portugal and how many regret the move?

Ryland


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## kw60 (May 12, 2012)

Ryland said:


> Hi,
> 
> How many members are happy living in Portugal and how many regret the move?
> 
> Ryland


First vote for happy ! Been here four months and wish I moved sooner !
Kim


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

We've been here about 15 months and came from South Africa where we'd spent about 11 (wonderful) years.

It took us or more accurately me, about 10 months to settle into Portugal but now I enjoy it very much indeed and don't think I'd ever opt to go go back to living in Africa.......... and I sure as hell wouldn't ever opt to go back to living in the cesspool of the UK. 

The only thing I battle with here is the language but many locals speak a bit of English and although it's slow, I am now picking up a bit of Portuguese.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Happy certainly, regret making the move no


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## Janina k (Nov 30, 2011)

*Reply*

Hello

We have been coming over to Portugal 3/ 4 times a year for at least 15 years Krystyna knows just how long but we both feel this is home. We have lived here now full time since Aujust 2011 and the mistake was we didn't move before we did. This is home now and we have both been made to feel so very welcome where ever we go.

Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.

Fred


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Been here 6 years now Our only regret is that we didn`t move here sooner


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## Ryland (Dec 21, 2012)

Thank you all for the replies.

I have been here for 22 years and have mixed feelings about living here, lol. Many things drive me crazy. I don't think I will ever accept certain behaviours or attitudes as my culture and educational background are very different. 
I do think Portugal a great country for a holiday but living here can be a war on times. If you don't know what I mean by that perhaps you have a different personality type or very laid back and hyper tolerant?:ranger: 

I am pleased and surprised to read so many positive remarks however most of those remarks come from people living here a short time. I would also think the town or city where one lives may make a difference?

Perhaps we could each write a list of what we enjoy and dislike? Would be interesting to see what comes up.

I am unhappy here, always have been yet when I write a list of the positives V the negatives the positives win and what makes it more frustrating for me is I cant think of another country I would rather live in. I sincerely believe I am growing into a sower old man!:boxing: I do appear to complete an awful lot of complaints in that livro de reclamac,oes

Thank you all for your kind replies.

Very best wishes to you all,

Ryland


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## simply (Jan 6, 2012)

I'd love to hear your honest thoughts.

What's bugging you?

Please go ahead and explain.


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## jerryceltner (May 15, 2012)

First of all we as a family have lived in central Portugal for 4.5 years. Would we go back to the UK ... No Way....we love it here.
Now for most people’s gripes.
The laid back approach to keeping to arranged appointments for maintenance work and a Tuesday doesn’t mean Tuesday or what Tuesday and what week or month.
The Portuguese love their paperwork so that usually takes hours for a simple job to sort out.
Our doctor makes an appointment for everyone at the same time so again a long wait but I have managed to sort this out and appear at opening time and they tell me what time to come back.
The worst for me is the queuing holding your little ticket to get served in the supermarket or pharmacy.
Now for the good points as far as I am concerned. I think I must have fallen into a barrel of sh-t and come up smelling of roses.
We have a Portuguese friend that is a great help with contacts in high places in the Financias and the GNR. All that is needed is a phone call and the answers come back in a few hours. The GNR is the commissioner of police in the area and I now have him as a facebook friend. If we needed to go to hospital she would come and translate. All we have to do is ask.
Now we also have Carlos the guy that built our place who lives 2 doors way. Nothing is tooooo much trouble and we have become close friends.
He has contacts in high places from the Mayor down and also has an answer for almost everything just by picking up his mobile.
Whether it be a plumber, electrician, car, fly screens......anything.
Our central heating boiler went down a while back and the plumber was here in less than 20 minutes and our pool pump went kaput and the electrician was here in less than 2 hours.
This is just a couple of examples but I could go on and on.
Like I said I think we are lucky, in fact very lucky as we don’t have to wait for days to get things done.
Long may it continue?


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

I was born in Portugal and lived there until I was 11.

When I was 18 I returned and regretted it as soon as the plane landed. Basically the thought running through my head was "I've made a huge mistake". But I persevered.

...for a few weeks anyway. That was the so-called "Honeymoon" period. I thought maybe If I tried hard enough and kept positive I could enjoy it. And I tried. I really did. I lasted about 6 months. Maybe more, but those 6 months felt like 6 years. Time escapes Portugal, it doesn't exist somehow.

I can imagine it to be fine if you are retired, got lots of money and don't speak Portuguese. Then you might love it, really.

If you don't have money and need to find a job, well, good luck. Be prepared to work very hard for very little pay.

If you can't speak Portuguese, that's actually good! You won't have to understand them trying to rip you off because you look foreign. Or, another thing they do greatly, is try to charm/persuade you into giving them money or buying things you don't need.

Not to mention the bureaucracy that makes you questions the meaning of the universe.
Not to mention the ridiculous taxes on cars.
Not to mention the aloofness of...pretty much everything really.
Not to mention the corruption that people don't seem to mind and simply accept.
Not to mention how the Portuguese will blatantly lie.
Not to mention how people who went to university feel superior to those who haven't, regardless of WHAT they studied.

I'll probably visit Portugal again at some point in the future, probably to visit family. And that's, to me, the best thing about Portugal: being able to fly there knowing that you have a return ticket.





Well, I guess the seaside is lovely too though.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm tend towards Sirtravelot's analysis, especially..

"Not to mention the bureaucracy that makes you questions the meaning of the universe."

Compared to other places, Germany, Switzerland, Angola, Botswana, Brazil, Nepal, Turkey, where I have lived I find, if you consider Central Portugal as part of Europe, and want to do something efficiently, to a time scale at a sensible price without lots of unnecessary paperwork then this is not the place to be. It's who you know, here, if you want to get things done. If you're retired with an income and pushing bit of paper and pontificating is your life you'll love it. If you want to do something in an entrepreneurial way or even earn a decent living then it's not the place hence CP has vast numbers of empty and cheap dwellings compared to South East England.


I do like it here but have never looked at the place with "rose tinted spectacles" anyway, good things are some of the people, price of land, weather and quality of the fishing.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Rather a different view of Portugal to your recent ones, vast numbers of empty buildings is more to do with Portugals laws of succession and a migration of the younger generations to towns or abroad for work over a number of years.

Personally I find Sirtavelot's views rather OTT and not a true reflection of my contacts with the majority of Portuguese I've had dealings with.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm a relative newcomer to PT but all I can say to those who complain about the speed and efficiency of PT bureaucracy is that it's incredibly fast and efficient when compared to that of South Africa where you can usually expect to wait at least 5 years for almost any kind of a Government permit and if they lose the paperwork as they often do, that waiting period starts again from when you re-submit a new application. 

It's also a common occurrence there to be told that nothing can be done at the time because there's no petrol/vehicle/blank paper/pens/phone lines or the damn password has been lost and it'll take 2 weeks to get another one. 

My experiences here in PT have been the direct opposite of that. Every Govt/Municipal office I've been in has been clean, empty, devoid of queues, highly efficient and the staff polite and helpful. Even if one doesn't speak English, they'll go off and fine find someone who does. We even got our residencia issued within about 15 minutes here and I fail to understand how anyone can be unhappy with that level of service.

I've heard other people complain about elevated prices for us Ingles but I don't think I've had a problem with that. I work on the principle that if something isn't price marked when I look at it, I just go elsewhere.

I'd agree that work is almost impossible to find but that's to be expected in a country that's in the financial position of PT and only a fool would expect to be able to come here and get a job when they don't speak the native language and there's thousands of unemployed people who do. 

Are there things that tick me off? - sure there are but none are insurmountable. What I can't buy locally, I can buy online and what I can't communicate to a non English speaker, I can write down with the help of a translator program if I have to. 

Generally, I've found the Portuguese people very friendly and welcoming and all my Portuguese friends and neighbours always make a point of going out their way to make sure I get a fair crack of the whip when it comes to services and prices. As an example of that, my neighbour even checks my firewood delivery when he sees it coming down the road to check I'm getting the right wood for the right price. 

One thing's for sure........ I'd rather slit my own wrists with a blunt rusty knife than go back to that cesspool of crime, traffic and petty officialdom they call the UK to live and life here beats life in the UK hands down.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

Errrrr?

" or even earn a decent living then it's not the place hence CP has vast numbers of empty and cheap dwellings "

Isn't that what I said?




canoeman said:


> ...., vast numbers of empty buildings is more to do with Portugals laws of succession and a migration of the younger generations to towns or abroad for work over a number of years.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

coleio said:


> Errrrr?
> 
> " or even earn a decent living then it's not the place hence CP has vast numbers of empty and cheap dwellings "
> 
> ...


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## Sharoncf (Aug 20, 2012)

Sirtravelot said:


> I was born in Portugal and lived there until I was 11.
> 
> When I was 18 I returned and regretted it as soon as the plane landed. Basically the thought running through my head was "I've made a huge mistake". But I persevered.
> 
> ...


My husband is Portuguese and he agrees with much of this. I am not sure what other govt offices others have been to but where we go there are always queues but they move fairly quickly. I also agree about the empty houses is due to both migration and the young people moving to the cities. I have found the people nice but I am not Portuguese. Even in our small Village there is always someone who is trying to take something or nothing, usually a bit of land so all is not what it seems. My husband flight the Portugal now is not what thy fought for after Salazar. We enjoy our life but it is hrs or young people, none of my husbands children will come back here to live and it isI the same with many of our friends/relatives who migrated and then want to come back to retire but their families don't. Not sure for expats, but as stated it is mostly who you know, also he agrees that if a person has a degree they look down at others (we both have degrees). He i disappointed I the politics because it seem that everyone wants the govern,net to pay an they not care where the money come from as long as they don't have to give it back. Saying ll of this we ill be back in three months for good because enjoy the life but we re not looking to work so a different story.

PS the seaside I lovely but Australia has great beaches so we are not looking for a sea change


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## Sharoncf (Aug 20, 2012)

Sorry for the typos I did not have my glasses on


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## noserhodes (Sep 13, 2011)

reading through the replies to this thread i will give you all my honest views.
ok so we have only been in pt for around ten months, but the honeymoon period is for us most certainly not over.
yes we have a couple of little niggles,but they do not outweigh the many many positives.
the main gripes for us are trying to keep the house warm within our limited budget,which we would not be able to attain on a like for like cost in uk,so thus thats our fault anyway,and the only other gripe is having to travel lengthy distances for renovation products, buy we were aware of that too when we chose location, and once works are completed ti wont be a prob no more.
i didnt expect to find work here and if i did which i am not expecting it would be a def brucie.
at fifty i lost my job in uk and after paying into the system for neigh on 30 years benefit britain told me because i had worked so hard and kept myself i couldnt recieve benifits because my girlfriend was earning enough to keep us.
for me it was the last straw and a no brainer to come out here, i couldnt even get registered with a dentist in uk and had to pay privately even though i was on minimum wage.
there are no jobs in uk either if you are fifty you are on the scrapheap unless you are happy to get odd days here and there through agencies.
i would mich prefer to live a crime free simplier lifestyle here on a budget than to give the british government the pleasure and robbery of my hard earned and saved for cash.
if it doesnt work out here the last place i would go back to would be uk i would take my chances elsewhere.
britain is not great no more


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

*Vacillate*

Let me vacillate - to sway through lack of equilibrium - Portugal is not Utopia (that was Cuba when I lived there), but for some people it offers a better fit then the UK and for some it is a worse fit. In the UK the people next door to me are Portuguese and they, and their children who were born here, do not wish to return. As in a lot of places if people fit then they stay. I love Portugal and hate Portugal and will try to make it work but like the contempory Portuguese can always try elsewhere.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Then again, one might have to live somewhere like this: Rebirth of a ghost town: Rows of boarded up terraced houses to be brought back to life in £10m revival | Mail Online 

Portugal looks bit better now huh?


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