# American Citizen with Dual Citizenship (British )



## lilith123 (Dec 27, 2009)

Hi 

I'm an American Citizen who just received my Dual Citizenship ( British)....I would love to move to the UK to find work and hopefully settle if everything works out.. 

When leaving the US what passport should I be using. Most people say I should use my US passport, but what happens when I decide to stay for a year or two and want to come back to the USA for a visit. Will they ask why I have stayed so long and what happens when I want to go back to the UK?

Alao, Do I have to notify the US about me leaving? Do I need a special type of Visa? Do I need clearence? Do I still need to pay the IRS money? 

Lily


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

As long as you have Citizenship in both countries you do not have to make any special arrangements or inform anyone about your travel plans. It is a good practice to register a current address with the US Consulate in the country you expect to stay in case they need to reach you.

You will use your US Passport to leave the US and also when you enter the US, when you are at check-in you show both passports and the appropriate notations are made in the system.


You still have to file US Federal Tax returns for life, you do not always pay tax as there is an exclusion of foreign income up to a certain amount (see IRS publication 54).




lilith123 said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm an American Citizen who just received my Dual Citizenship ( British)....I would love to move to the UK to find work and hopefully settle if everything works out..
> 
> ...


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## lilith123 (Dec 27, 2009)

Hiya, 

Thank you for your help! 

All the best!
Lilyx


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just a little amplification of what Amaslam said:

Legally you MUST use your US passport whenever you enter the US. Using any other passport will subject you to huge fines. I've even heard of a case where they advised using an expired US passport over a valid foreign passport.

On exit, it's not quite as crucial, but when leaving, especially by plane, the check-in people are looking to see if you have a visa where your departure needs to be reported. Handing over a foreign passport with no visa in it is just going to complicate matters - for you and for the airline. 

On return to the US, they usually ask how long you've been gone - but on the entry form you fill out, there is a place to indicate that you live outside the US. Over the last few years I notice the border people actually read that line and ask about it. But as a US citizen, they don't actually check on your comings and goings all that closely - at least they don't usually stamp your passport at all on arrival these days.

On the tax issue, you can download Publication 54 from the IRS website to get an idea of tax filing obligations for a US citizen resident overseas.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just a little amplification of what Amaslam said:
> 
> Legally you MUST use your US passport whenever you enter the US. Using any other passport will subject you to huge fines. I've even heard of a case where they advised using an expired US passport over a valid foreign passport.
> 
> ...


It is true that US citizens traveling to or from the Western Hemisphere (and, now under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative anywhere outside the US) are required to us US documentation. Literally a Canadian-US dual national traveling from Canada to Europe (or elsewhere) would have to use a US and not a Canadian passport. 

Just another badly drafted and unenforceable law.

Passport data are collected by ICE and other elements of DHS. They are used to conflicts due to dual nationality but many travelers say it avoids issues if they tender the US passport to the airline and present only the EU/EEA/Swiss passport to the immigration police on the European side. US immigration inspectors do not necessarily know such basic things as that dual nationality is perfectly legal for Amcits to have.

(There are a few special exceptions to the US passport rule relating to infant dependents of foreign diplomats and an obsolete rule relating to children included in a foreign national's passport. In some emergency situations a US consular officer can issue a passport letter or waiver that will be faxed to the port of entry and allow admission when there has not been time to obtain a US passport and a family emergency requires immediate travel. I don't know about using an expired passport: such provisions show up in an archive search of the State website but I suspect they are abrogated by the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. An airline may refuse to board a person with questionable documents because of the risk of facing carrier penalties.)


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Punktlich2 said:


> Literally a Canadian-US dual national traveling from Canada to Europe (or elsewhere) would have to use a US and not a Canadian passport.


Not if they aren't passing through the US en route. 



> Passport data are collected by ICE and other elements of DHS. They are used to conflicts due to dual nationality but many travelers say it avoids issues if they tender the US passport to the airline and present only the EU/EEA/Swiss passport to the immigration police on the European side. US immigration inspectors do not necessarily know such basic things as that dual nationality is perfectly legal for Amcits to have.


Not so sure about this. I've never had anyone question my dual nationality on entry or departure - though you do have to play the game by their rules. Use only the US passport to enter, and it does avoid problems on departure to use the US passport with the airline check-in desk, since what they're actually looking for is the little green "receipt" (i.e. for the VWP) if you show your foreign passport.

I've often shown my French passport when I board the flight home. And I use the French passport on arrival simply because the lines are shorter and move faster.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Not if they aren't passing through the US en route.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I always tell people they should do as they see fit. But I never post anything unconditionally unless I know it is true. Unfortunately the law regarding use of US passports is hard to search for because any search on "Western Hemisphere" is overwhelmed by "Western Hemisphere Initiative". But if you check the FAM and the CFR you should find the requirement that travel of an Amcit to and from the Western Hemisphere must be on a US passport. Unenforceable and unenforced.

As for the rest: passport numbers submitted to the airline are passed to the DHS. What they do with them, and whether they are accessible by the immigration inspector at an airport or other port of entry I don't know. I can say that I was subjected to further examination on a cruise ship because I had submitted a European passport to the ship but when we were landing in a US port had to present a US passport. The inspector wanted not only my US passport but other photo ID. As for departure: one can leave with a foreign passport and simply reply when asked for the I94 stub that you have a green card or dual nationality: the airline doesn't care. And that's the weakness: ICE knows that it misses many departures of aliens and is working on a solution because future systems could lead to blacklisting of presumed overstayers who actually left on time.

I will find the rule on US passports in due course and post it. Too busy right now.


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Punktlich2 said:


> ...
> I will find the rule on US passports in due course and post it. Too busy right now.


At least since 2003 the CFR rule on use of US passports has only referred to travel to and from US territory and not "Western Hemisphere". This makes obvious sense. There may have been further amendments as of 2009 reflecting the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. Go to Code of Federal Regulations: Main Page and enter "22CFR53" to find the relevant sections. § 53.2 contains the exceptions.

The index of the relevant Foreign Affairs Manual sections is here:
7 FAM - Consular Affairs

I am long retired from this stuff and no longer keep up with it.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Punktlich2 said:


> At least since 2003 the CFR rule on use of US passports has only referred to travel to and from US territory and not "Western Hemisphere". This makes obvious sense. There may have been further amendments as of 2009 reflecting the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. Go to Code of Federal Regulations: Main Page and enter "22CFR53" to find the relevant sections. § 53.2 contains the exceptions.
> 
> The index of the relevant Foreign Affairs Manual sections is here:
> 7 FAM - Consular Affairs
> ...


Having an "alternate passport" has long been the way some Americans cope with various travel bans. I think whatever laws they may have tried to pass, the US government will find it difficult to enforce these sorts of things outside their jurisdiction.

There are still laws on the books that state that a USC risks having his citizenship revoked if he takes another nationality, serves in a foreign military or takes a job as a member of a foreign government. Yet those laws have not been enforced since 1990. The State Department does seem to drag them out from time to time, just to remind us that they are still in force.
Cheers,
Bev


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

The laws are still on the books however several Supreme court cases have said that unless you explicitly state (in writing or verbally) that you intend to relinquish your US citizenship to a US consular officer then your intent has been to retain it and you shall retain it.

State departments position has been they 'discourage' it as it does not allow them to always give 100% consular assistance to a US National who is also a dual National. This discouragement is not the same thing as prohibited or not recognised so you can certainly be a dual or plural citizen of which one of the citizenships is US.



Bevdeforges said:


> Having an "alternate passport" has long been the way some Americans cope with various travel bans. I think whatever laws they may have tried to pass, the US government will find it difficult to enforce these sorts of things outside their jurisdiction.
> 
> There are still laws on the books that state that a USC risks having his citizenship revoked if he takes another nationality, serves in a foreign military or takes a job as a member of a foreign government. Yet those laws have not been enforced since 1990. The State Department does seem to drag them out from time to time, just to remind us that they are still in force.
> Cheers,
> Bev


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

amaslam said:


> The laws are still on the books however several Supreme court cases have said that unless you explicitly state (in writing or verbally) that you intend to relinquish your US citizenship to a US consular officer then your intent has been to retain it and you shall retain it.
> 
> State departments position has been they 'discourage' it as it does not allow them to always give 100% consular assistance to a US National who is also a dual National. This discouragement is not the same thing as prohibited or not recognised so you can certainly be a dual or plural citizen of which one of the citizenships is US.


Many, perhaps most, dual nationals have their second (or third or fourth) nationality adventitiously by facts of birth, ancestry, adoption or naturalisation of a parent. Normally a nationality obtained during minority is not "claimed": it is assigned as a matter of law. Some countries (Denmark, Switzerland) revoke their nationality in the cases of their citizens who have another nationality, live abroad and fail to register with a consulate at majority.

The State Department "position" is really irrelevant since the Supreme Court is the sole arbiter of what the US Constitution says and means. Also, I asked the US Consular office's ACS head some years ago whether she ever had difficulty in rendering services (essentially consular visits) to arrestees and prisoners. She said that her staff were normally welcomed into the prisons because they provided moral support to dual national prisoners, brought them news (and magazines) from home and helped to calm them. That would not be true of all, or even many, foreign countries but it is so in the UK.


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

lilith123 said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm an American Citizen who just received my Dual Citizenship ( British)....I would love to move to the UK to find work and hopefully settle if everything works out..
> 
> ...


One can't have "just received my Dual Citizenship" if you live outside the UK unless your spouse is a UK diplomat, etc. More likely you were always British by descent and just for the first time obtained a British passport.

Notwithstanding what I and others have written you can safely show both passports to any immigration officer in the US, UK or elsewhere, and to airlines. Rarely you will find an uninformed US officer who gets excited; it's resolved by calling his/her supervisor. But normally one shows only the passport of the country you are entering/leaving to officials of that country. (EU/EEA/Swiss countries count as one: Rush Portuguesa case)

If you are leaving a state like MD or VA that has a high state income tax and tries to refuse to recognize changes of domicile abroad you DO need to file a final, part-year tax return. And it is wiser to do so from another US state if you have a friend living, say, in NY, CA, FL, TX, IL, NH or other state that does not tax domiciliaries abroad. But the possession of a UK ppt means you will eventually win any argument with your former state in any case, it just may take awhile.

Neither the US nor the UK know who all their citizens are. Many countries (especially civil-law ones) have "family registers" and require registration at the local city hall or local consulate of all their citizens. Common-Law countries don't usually have that and if you never apply for a passport or file a tax return and especially if you have no social security card you will not be known to any Government agency. Your children then may or may not be US citizens if born abroad (there is a residence requirement for transmitting citizenship, different for legitimate and illegitimate children).

In short: don't worry about anything except finding a job. You can probably get a jobseeker allowance when you get to the UK but it's not very generous.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just to clarify a couple of points, lilith, don't let all the extraneous discussion here worry you. 

Since 1990, the US State Department has been clear that, while they aren't wild about dual nationality, they aren't going to bother you about it, no matter how you got your second nationality.

When leaving the US, whether on holiday or to relocate, you can use whichever passport suits you, as long as you always use your US passport to enter the US. Generally speaking, you'll want to carry both passports when you're travelling abroad. It's best to use the local passport when entering a country (and for anywhere in the EU, your British passport is considered "local") if you've got it. If you're inclined to travel to places that are restricted for Americans, you'll catch the knack of using the British passport for hopping to Cuba, and such like that.

If and when you decide to relocate (long-term or permanently) to the UK, you don't have to "sign out" of either the US or your home state. You file a part-year state tax return, precisely as you would if you had moved to another state. You do have to continue to file US federal returns, and you may (if you wish) continue to vote in Federal elections, using your last US residential address before your move. Voting in Federal elections through a particular state does NOT make you a resident of that state for tax or other purposes.

Probably way more than you wanted to know - but given our "thread drift" I didn't want you to start worrying about technicalities that probably don't affect you.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

As nobody's mentioned it yet, the best piece of research I've ever found on dual citizenship from the US perspective is here: www.richw.org/dualcit You can reference all the USSC cases there.

The UK seems to have little perspective on it save the short paragraph written in your passport.


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Fatbrit said:


> As nobody's mentioned it yet, the best piece of research I've ever found on dual citizenship from the US perspective is here: Dual Citizenship FAQ You can reference all the USSC cases there.
> 
> The UK seems to have little perspective on it save the short paragraph written in your passport.


That's by Rich Wales, an American who became naturalised in Canada after working there for some years and then moved back to the USA. His research is really limited to those two countries, and to US Supreme Court cases. One can get into this a lot deeper. The reason for the problem is that the Common Law had no concept of nationality, only "allegiance" based on place of birth. The US Constitution drafters made some (heroic) assumptions based on their understanding of the concepts. (But hey, Israel and China both went for years without any nationality law and people still knew who were their citizens.) 

There are actually several "grades" of US citizen: a person born or naturalised in Puerto Rico has certain tax privileges. A Canadian Indian has some of the rights of a US citizen (live, work without visa) as does a native of Belau (Palau). American Samoa natives are "nationals" not "citizens" which means they can't vote. Neither could Filipinos prior to 1945 (or 1936 depending which law you look at), they were protégés, as were American Indians prior to 1924. And don't even ask about the status of women prior to the Cable Act.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Punktlich2 said:


> One can get into this a lot deeper.


It's deep enough on the US perspective for me as a UK/US dual citizen! 

The thing I cannot find is a current UK perspective. Read a lot of ranting by Daily Wail-type lordships that it shouldn't be allowed. But never seen anything approaching legislation. Indeed, the short paragraph in the UK passport is as close as I've ever got.


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Fatbrit said:


> It's deep enough on the US perspective for me as a UK/US dual citizen!
> 
> The thing I cannot find is a current UK perspective. Read a lot of ranting by Daily Wail-type lordships that it shouldn't be allowed. But never seen anything approaching legislation. Indeed, the short paragraph in the UK passport is as close as I've ever got.


The British Nationality Act 1981 was the final assertion that Britain had (except in matters of treason) moved from "allegiance" to "nationality".

But there is no change in the ancient policy of "perpetual allegiance" which, in fact, led to the War of 1812. One does not cease to be a British citizen (current term) except where and when decolonisation leads to that. Which is never since all the remaining colonial citizens have been merged into British nationality with right of abode in the UK.

The ONLY exception relates to "right of residence" in the Channel Islands, and the fact that for most (not all) purposes those Islands are outside the EU. If you need to know more, come back to me. But I doubt it.

There is not now, and never has been, any restraint on foreign nationality held in tandem by a Brit. Why not? Easy: In Northern Ireland if you ask a native what his/her nationality is the response depends on his/her religion: Catholic = Irish, Protestant = British. Jews tend to ally with the Protestants in that sense, but there are few of them. Muslims are too new (and too despised by the racists there) to have been noted. Same, I guess, for Hindus.

Look at the Protocol to the Belfast Agreement (You can Google for full text):

The British and Irish Governments declare that it is their joint
understanding that the term "the people of Northern Ireland" in paragraph
(vi) of Article 1 of this Agreement means, for the purposes of giving
effect to this provision, all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at
the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish
citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any
restriction on their period of residence.

FWIW I have one daughter who lived in Belfast at the time and voted for the Agreement; and another daughter who Registered as British at age 14 and who has three (count 'em 3) other nationalities as well. She has never bought or used a British passport and nobody cares. Not least Cambridge University nor her UK Government employers.

Uniquely (AFAIK) among EU States the UK (for reason of the Northern Ireland situation) will allow any resident holding another EU/EEA/Swiss passport as well as a UK one to claim EU rights ("Surinder Singh case"), thus avoiding any hassle or fee for a visa to bring a spouse or dependents to the UK.

If you want to get into this intellectually, read about Angus Macdonald (Æneas Macdonald):
http://www.uniset.ca/naty/maternity/aeneas_macdonald.htm


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