# Settling in Germany



## oprime05

Hey folks!

A Google search directed me to this forum.... so hopefully, I can get some help 

I can't ask my questions without a little background, so please bear with me.

1) I work from home as a software programmer earning about €4567 / month, in the Middle East. I can continue my job anywhere.

2) We would like our son to attend a German high-school & then hopefully a German university.

Now the questions: :tongue1:

1) Can we enroll our son in a German school if we tour Germany on a tourist visa, and then continue to stay in Germany?

2) Eventually, is it possible to qualify for a residence permit or Citizenship?

3) Given my salary, how much can I expect to spend/save if we live in a relatively smaller town (instead of a major city like Munich)?

If I have missed something in my info., please ask away.

Thank you for all the help, in advance!


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## Bevdeforges

A couple of bits of information are missing:

What nationality are you and the other members of your family? Makes a difference when it comes to a "tourist visa" and whether or not you will have the right to stay on in Germany after the initial 90 day period (on a "Schengen visa"). 

Things get a bit more complicated if you intend to continue to work from home - since where you are located while doing the work will be where you are considered to be "from." You may well need a work permit and/or to establish yourself as a German business (and pay German social insurances and taxes).


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## oprime05

Bevdeforges said:


> A couple of bits of information are missing:
> 
> What nationality are you and the other members of your family? Makes a difference when it comes to a "tourist visa" and whether or not you will have the right to stay on in Germany after the initial 90 day period (on a "Schengen visa").
> 
> Things get a bit more complicated if you intend to continue to work from home - since where you are located while doing the work will be where you are considered to be "from." You may well need a work permit and/or to establish yourself as a German business (and pay German social insurances and taxes).


Appreciate the prompt reply! 

I am from an Asian country (trying to maintain at least some privacy), and I am currently working in the Middle East on a work-visa. I can continue this work remotely from Germany with the same salary.

I have checked and with a Schengen visa, we do qualify to stay in Germany for the 90 days. However, I am not sure if those days are valid past the sticker visa "valid until" date.

I don't think getting a Schengen visa will be difficult for us. However, what comes after the visa, is my concern. And so I shared my questions in that regard.

Ok, so I will be able to apply for a work Permit for my "self-employment"? :confused2:

And what about our son attending a elementary-school, and us staying to support him? :confused2:

Our priority is our son's education, staying with him, and hopefully qualify for some residence-permit, if possible.

Hope that clarifies more.


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## Bevdeforges

OK, thanks for the additional information. This page may give you some of the information you're looking for: https://www.germany-visa.org/work-employment-visa/

As you will note, you can't just come to Germany on a tourist visa and then apply on site for a long-stay visa (with work privileges) unless you are a national of certain specific countries. Otherwise, you'll need to apply for a long-stay visa in the country you are currently resident in.

Not sure if what you're planning on doing is possible within the given visa structure - but someone should be along shortly to give you a bit more information based on the additional information you've provided.


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## ALKB

oprime05 said:


> I am currently working in the Middle East *on a work-visa*. I can continue this work remotely from Germany with the same *salary*.
> 
> Ok, so I will be able to apply for a work Permit for my "self-employment"? :confused2:
> 
> And what about our son attending a elementary-school, and us staying to support him? :confused2:
> 
> Our priority is our son's education, staying with him, and hopefully qualify for some residence-permit, if possible.
> 
> Hope that clarifies more.


If you are on a work visa receiving a salary, then you are not self-employed = you do not own a business doing contracting work.

Even if it were possible for you to get a work permit through a telecommuting job (there is no reason for you to do this from Germany, right?), you'd take a huge hit in your take-home salary because you'd be tax resident in Germany and liable to pay taxes and social contributions.

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305249/en/

You can try to find a job in Germany with an employer who can sponsor you. Your dependents would be able to apply for a dependent visa (although depending on how high your salary is, your wife may have to show basic German language skills to get that visa). In that case, your children would be eligible to attend tax funded state schools.

It does not really work the other way around. There are children who get study visas but all the cases I know of involved private boarding schools and the parents did most certainly not receive residence permits with work rights through their children.

How old is your child? There are a couple of (fee-paying) German schools in the Middle East, could you move close to one (as you can work remotely) and enroll your son there? You could stay on in the Middle East and by the time he is done with high school, he'd have very good chances to get a place at a German university.


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## Nononymous

I expect the short answer to this question is no. It's extremely unlikely that Germany would grant a visa to someone wanting to just come and work remotely for an employer in another country. They have no reason to be in Germany.


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## oprime05

ALKB said:


> If you are on a work visa receiving a salary, then you are not self-employed = you do not own a business doing contracting work.


Thank you tremendously for the detailed reply. 

Yes, I clearly understand what you are saying. Please allow me add some details here; 

1) I am working from home while on work visa for an employer who would not mind me moving elsewhere (for personal reasons), and continuing my job.

2) And in that case, with the move, I would be working as a contractor (same salary) for the company. My employer is okay with that as long as (and this goes without saying) I do my job.



ALKB said:


> Even if it were possible for you to get a work permit through a telecommuting job (there is no reason for you to do this from Germany, right?), you'd take a huge hit in your take-home salary because you'd be tax resident in Germany and liable to pay taxes and social contributions.


Like I mentioned before, primary objective is our son's education & accompanying him for that. To that end, I do not mind paying taxes, while our son acquire's an education, considering state-universities are almost free in Germany. So, if there is any possibility of pursuing a self-employment opportunity, I am keen to know about that process.



ALKB said:


> You can try to finding a job in Germany with an employer who can sponsor you. Your dependents would be able to apply for a dependent visa (although depending on how high your salary is, your wife may have to show basic German language skills to get that visa). In that case, your children would be eligible to attend tax funded state schools.


Honestly, I am skeptical about find a job in Germany. It's also an arduous process, requiring decent German language skills. Just being realistic. And since I have a mobile job, I figured (maybe incorrectly) that moving to a new place would be easier.



ALKB said:


> It does not really work the other way around. There are children who get study visas but all the cases I know of involved private boarding schools and the parents did most certainly not receive residence permits with work rights through their children.


Yes, I agree with you that traditionally parents do not move with their kids for education. But, if you had one child, whom you dearly love, and had a "work from home" job, you have to agree that moving with the child becomes a enticing thought.   

That said, let me share a case with you, that I know personally. A close friend (also from Asia), has accompanied her son to Canada for his high-school education. She applied for his student visa, a visa for herself & accompanied him. 

True, Canada has a different set of immigration rules altogether. However Canada, (more importantly) unlike Germany does not have almost-free universities.



ALKB said:


> How old is your child? There are a couple of (fee-paying) German schools in the Middle East, could you move close to one (as you can work remotely) and enroll your son there? You could stay on in the Middle East and by the time he is done with high school, he'd have very good chances to get a place at a German university.


Our son is in elementary school at the moment & yes I am aware of local German private schools. But if that option is pursued, then our leaves for his university alone.....


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## Bevdeforges

No one is questioning your motives here - but as you note, each country has their own immigration rules which come into play.

While you have a visa to work at your current job, that doesn't give you any particular rights to work remotely from another country, no matter what your employer is willing to do. If there was some "need" for your employer to have someone in Germany they could always register as a foreign employer so that they could pay all the appropriate taxes and social insurances for you. But I don't believe that is the case here.

And I think you can understand why Germany (or any other European country) would be hesitant to take on an immigrant looking for "free university" without any other ties to the country.


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## Nononymous

Canada has a very different set of immigration rules from Germany. Canada also charges visiting high-school students buckets of money to come and study - and university tuition for foreign students is extremely high. They run this like a lucrative business.

You are free to apply for a work visa at a German consulate, but I imagine your chances of success are extremely low. The way it typically works is that you are not granted permission to live in Germany unless you have a valid reason to be in Germany, and those reasons are mostly limited to working for a German company or studying at a German university. Wanting to live in Germany while working for a foreign employer would almost certainly not be considered a valid reason.

(The famous "freelancer visa" was always a bit of a myth, in my view, and effectively restricted to those from the privileged countries who can apply after arrival, since they'd have 90 days to get settled and organized, plus negotiate with the local Ausländerbehörde, not the consulate.)

You may also have an overly positive view of the German education system - particularly its ability to successfully integrate non-German children.


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## oprime05

Bevdeforges said:


> No one is questioning your motives here - but as you note, each country has their own immigration rules which come into play.
> 
> While you have a visa to work at your current job, that doesn't give you any particular rights to work remotely from another country, no matter what your employer is willing to do. If there was some "need" for your employer to have someone in Germany they could always register as a foreign employer so that they could pay all the appropriate taxes and social insurances for you. But I don't believe that is the case here.
> 
> And I think you can understand why Germany (or any other European country) would be hesitant to take on an immigrant looking for "free university" without any other ties to the country.


Appreciate your understanding. 

And would like to add that I did not intend to be a free-loader, so it's fair to payback the community in taxes, services (if possible), to compensate for the generous education system of Germany. 

I have been continuing my research :ranger: & came across a site that detailed Student Visa in Germany with the option for the parents to accompany the child under the "German Family Reunification Visa". I don't have 5 posts here yet, so I can't share the link for the benefit of others. 

Anyhow, the site detailed the process including education credentials for the student, etc., and the 3 month waiting time for the approval.

So, perhaps Germany does have something similar for education to what my friend undertook for her son, in Canada. :clap2:

Pasting a question from that site;

"Can a family member of a foreign student work in Germany?
Yes. Holders of a German family visa can get a paid job in Germany if they have the right age and qualification for the job."

Questions; are there immigration lawyers in Germany? If so, could someone please recommend one here?

I want to thank everyone again for the tremendous help! This forum has some awesome people!


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## ALKB

oprime05 said:


> Thank you tremendously for the detailed reply.
> 
> Yes, I clearly understand what you are saying. Please allow me add some details here;
> 
> 1) I am working from home while on work visa for an employer who would not mind me moving elsewhere (for personal reasons), and continuing my job.
> 
> 2) And in that case, with the move, I would be working as a contractor (same salary) for the company. My employer is okay with that as long as (and this goes without saying) I do my job.
> 
> 
> Like I mentioned before, primary objective is our son's education & accompanying him for that. To that end, I do not mind paying taxes, while our son acquire's an education, considering state-universities are almost free in Germany. So, if there is any possibility of pursuing a self-employment opportunity, I am keen to know about that process.


Such a residence permit is not easy to get, it requires extensive documentation, a good business plan, quite a bit of capital and most of all: German clients. Having one singular client in the Middle East does not give you a reason to move to Germany or, more importantly: you need to show Germany that you setting up a business in Germany would be economically advantageous. For Germany.

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305249/en/

https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa/kinds-of-visa/self-employment/

In your original post you asked about ability to save. You'd probably not be able to save much if anything at all.




oprime05 said:


> Honestly, I am skeptical about find a job in Germany. It's also an arduous process, requiring decent German language skills. Just being realistic. And since I have a mobile job, I figured (maybe incorrectly) that moving to a new place would be easier.


I would not discount it, if you really want to move there. Might be your only realistic chance. Unless... how about you or your wife apply for university? Masters Degree? PhD? Although a student dependent visa does not generally come with work rights. 

You realise that you will need basic German language skills for daily life, good German language skills for permanent residence and really good German language skills for naturalisation?





oprime05 said:


> Yes, I agree with you that traditionally parents do not move with their kids for education. But, if you had one child, whom you dearly love, and had a "work from home" job, you have to agree that moving with the child becomes a enticing thought.


I get it, I have two children I love dearly, I had a work-from-home job for six years and I stayed a year longer in Scotland than I wanted to, so that my older daughter could finish her GCSEs. I would not let them move to another country without me at primary school age. Nevertheless it's unrealistic for me to do so anywhere outside the EU, where I have freedom of movement. 




oprime05 said:


> That said, let me share a case with you, that I know personally. A close friend (also from Asia), has accompanied her son to Canada for his high-school education. She applied for his student visa, a visa for herself & accompanied him.
> 
> True, Canada has a different set of immigration rules altogether. However Canada, (more importantly) unlike Germany does not have almost-free universities.


The UK has a similar visa for parents. The children have to attend fee-paying private schools and the parent visa can only be issued until the child is 12 years old.

As far as I know, Canada also charges fees for state schools if the parents did not qualify for a work visa in their own right (express entry, spouse, etc.).




oprime05 said:


> Our son is in elementary school at the moment & yes I am aware of local German private schools. But if that option is pursued, then our leaves for his university alone.....


Most university students leave for university on their own? 

On another note, have you ever been to Germany? 

Do you have friends or family that could provide social comfort?

My husband is from an Asian country and he struggles with depression during the long dark winters. He is frustrated with the inability to get the foods and spices he likes, halal meat, etc., as soon as we are anywhere than a big city. 

The culture can be hard to access, even for Germans from a different region of Germany.

How about going for that Schengen visa without (!!!) overstaying (because that would pretty much put a stop to you ever getting a visa for Schengen again), doing that tour of Germany and maybe some neighbouring countries while you are at it - depending on budget, of course - and trying to get a feel for whether living there would drive you nuts within a few months. I recommend to visit in November, if you like *that*, you'll be good to go ahead with any further plans.


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## Nononymous

I doubt very much that the German authorities would grant a student visa to a child in elementary school, so that the child can sponsor the parents to come and work. But you are free to ask the consulate.

(Note that you must request a visa from the consulate, you cannot apply for a residence permit from within Germany unless you are a citizen of US, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, New Zealand or Korea.)


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## ALKB

Nononymous said:


> I doubt very much that the German authorities would grant a student visa to a child in elementary school, so that the child can sponsor the parents to come and work. But you are free to ask the consulate.
> 
> (Note that you must request a visa from the consulate, you cannot apply for a residence permit from within Germany unless you are a citizen of US, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, New Zealand or Korea.)


Indeed, 'schooling' visas are rarely given, and only from 9th grade and up for stays at private boarding schools and only if either the school or a German resident signs guarantee papers.


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## *Sunshine*

oprime05 said:


> Like I mentioned before, primary objective is our son's education & accompanying him for that. To that end, I do not mind paying taxes, while our son acquire's an education, considering state-universities are almost free in Germany.


If you are honestly looking for the best educational opportunities for your child, how did you end up thinking that Germany would be a good fit? 

Although the German school system has improved slightly since the first PISA study, the German public school system is barely average when compared to other countries. Furthermore, in the past Germany has dismally failed to provide equal educational opportunities to the children of foreigners. More importantly, the recent influx of foreigners has overwhelmed most school boards and there is a massive shortage of teachers of German as a foreign language. 

Foreign children who've grown up in Germany rarely profit from low cost university education because they rarely achieve the necessary diploma to attend university. Although Germany has become very popular with foreign students because if is so cheap, few foreign students in Germany attended a German Gymnasium, but rather acquired the necessary diploma abroad.

Before you further look into the immigration requirements for Germany, do more research on the educational system.


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## oprime05

ALKB said:


> Such a residence permit is not easy to get, it requires extensive documentation, a good business plan, quite a bit of capital and most of all: German clients. Having one singular client in the Middle East does not give you a reason to move to Germany or, more importantly: you need to show Germany that you setting up a business in Germany would be economically advantageous. For Germany.
> 
> In your original post you asked about ability to save. You'd probably not be able to save much if anything at all.


Not being able to save anything really is an eye-opener. I know taxes are high, and I am use to paying about 35% income tax in my career. But, zero savings is a significant blow! 



ALKB said:


> I would not discount it, if you really want to move there. Might be your only realistic chance. Unless... how about you or your wife apply for university? Masters Degree? PhD? Although a student dependent visa does not generally come with work rights.
> 
> You realise that you will need basic German language skills for daily life, good German language skills for permanent residence and really good German language skills for naturalisation?


I appreciate the vote of confidence, and yes, I am well aware that any immigration benefit comes with the language requirement fine-print. Heck, even a job requires knowledge of German.



ALKB said:


> I get it, I have two children I love dearly, I had a work-from-home job for six years and I stayed a year longer in Scotland than I wanted to, so that my older daughter could finish her GCSEs. I would not let them move to another country without me at primary school age. Nevertheless it's unrealistic for me to do so anywhere outside the EU, where I have freedom of movement.
> 
> The UK has a similar visa for parents. The children have to attend fee-paying private schools and the parent visa can only be issued until the child is 12 years old.
> 
> As far as I know, Canada also charges fees for state schools if the parents did not qualify for a work visa in their own right (express entry, spouse, etc.).


I doubt state schools in Canada accept International student applications. I can share that my friend who accompanied her son to a Canadian high-school, enrolled him in a private school. And that private school issued him an acceptance letter that was utilized for visa purposes.



ALKB said:


> Most university students leave for university on their own?
> 
> On another note, have you ever been to Germany?
> 
> Do you have friends or family that could provide social comfort?
> 
> My husband is from an Asian country and he struggles with depression during the long dark winters. He is frustrated with the inability to get the foods and spices he likes, halal meat, etc., as soon as we are anywhere than a big city.
> 
> The culture can be hard to access, even for Germans from a different region of Germany.
> 
> How about going for that Schengen visa without (!!!) overstaying (because that would pretty much put a stop to you ever getting a visa for Schengen again), doing that tour of Germany and maybe some neighbouring countries while you are at it - depending on budget, of course - and trying to get a feel for whether living there would drive you nuts within a few months. I recommend to visit in November, if you like *that*, you'll be good to go ahead with any further plans.


[/QUOTE]

Wonderful pieces of advice! Thank you! 

Yes, we have been contemplating a survey of Germany prior to the school-admission leap. It will help us get a better understanding of the living expenses, and the type of environment to expect. 

We've lived in various parts of the globe, so adapting to the local food has never been an issue. But moving with a family to a new place brings about its unique challenges.


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## oprime05

*Sunshine* said:


> If you are honestly looking for the best educational opportunities for your child, how did you end up thinking that Germany would be a good fit?
> 
> Although the German school system has improved slightly since the first PISA study, the German public school system is barely average when compared to other countries. Furthermore, in the past Germany has dismally failed to provide equal educational opportunities to the children of foreigners. More importantly, the recent influx of foreigners has overwhelmed most school boards and there is a massive shortage of teachers of German as a foreign language.
> 
> Foreign children who've grown up in Germany rarely profit from low cost university education because they rarely achieve the necessary diploma to attend university. Although Germany has become very popular with foreign students because if is so cheap, few foreign students in Germany attended a German Gymnasium, but rather acquired the necessary diploma abroad.
> 
> Before you further look into the immigration requirements for Germany, do more research on the educational system.


Thank you for the informative post. 

I doubt there is any school system in the world that is perfect. They are all ridden with shortcomings, racism, bullying, and are most times just inept. 

Take the Middle East state schools that outright reject any foreigners. You cannot send your child to a Middle Eastern state school unless you are from that Middle Eastern country. How racist is that?

Consider the Japanese schools that treat foreign students as, well foreigners. Blogs are rife with how non-Japanese kids are called derogatory names like "Hafu", and where Japanese kids outright refuse to play with these foreign kids.

And more recently, I was reading this article  of an U.S. school teacher locking up an Autistic kid.

My point is, there is no perfect school system. However, some are better than others. As parents we seek what is best for our children. 

And from what I have read online about German schools, they may not be the best, but they are pretty good comparatively. Of course, my research pales in comparison to people who have first hand experience of these schools.

I hope none of what I am sharing here comes across as rude. I'm just picking brains of peers & I am thankful for all this info.


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## Nononymous

Sorry to be blunt, but as your plan to move to Germany on the basis of remote work is not feasible, I would not spend too much time researching the pros and cons of the German school system and its track record with non-German children. A job with a German company would potentially allow you to move, but then you would need to consider whether that really is the best option for your child. 

Canadian public (state) schools accept international students, but they charge fees that are similar to a private school. It's not cheap.


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## oprime05

Nononymous said:


> Sorry to be blunt, but as your plan to move to Germany on the basis of remote work is not feasible, I would not spend too much time researching the pros and cons of the German school system and its track record with non-German children. A job with a German company would potentially allow you to move, but then you would need to consider whether that really is the best option for your child.
> 
> Canadian public (state) schools accept international students, but they charge fees that are similar to a private school. It's not cheap.


Blunt is fine & helpful. I agree, remote work will not be feasible for a visa application, is what I have understood from all the posts here.

I meant to share this earlier, hoping it may benefit someone else.

Thank you, again.


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## Nononymous

oprime05 said:


> I meant to share this earlier, hoping it may benefit someone else.


On that note, you had it backwards earlier. The family reunification visa would allow a university student (with a student visa) to bring his/her spouse and children to Germany. 

It most definitely does not mean that a six year old would be granted a student visa for elementary school, and could bring his parents along to work and support him!


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## oprime05

Nononymous said:


> On that note, you had it backwards earlier. The family reunification visa would allow a university student (with a student visa) to bring his/her spouse and children to Germany.
> 
> It most definitely does not mean that a six year old would be granted a student visa for elementary school, and could bring his parents along to work and support him!


True, that's how the site describes the "Family reunification" visa. 

However, for Canada, that is how my Asian friend was able to accompany her student son. Perhaps the Canadian "Family reunification" differs in this regard. :confused2:


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## *Sunshine*

oprime05 said:


> My point is, there is no perfect school system. However, some are better than others. As parents we seek what is best for our children.
> 
> And from what I have read online about German schools, they may not be the best, but they are pretty good comparatively. Of course, my research pales in comparison to people who have first hand experience of these schools.


Could you please post a link to what you've read online?

Although I agree with you that no school system is perfect, the German public school system is most definitely not in the same league as the Canadian system. 

Most studies would class Canadian public schools as Tier 1 and German as Tier 2 or Tier 3 (especially when it comes to educating foreign children).

Have you considered immigrating to Canada? Permanent residents don't have to pay (at least directly) for public schools.


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## oprime05

*Sunshine* said:


> Could you please post a link to what you've read online?


Most certainly.....

Here is Expatica rating the German school system as the 16th best.

There was also an article in the Guardian describing how significantly the German school system has improved & could possibly prove exemplary for other systems.

And finally, since we are interested in Medicine for our son, there is a list of top Medical universities in Germany that is intriguing.



*Sunshine* said:


> Although I agree with you that no school system is perfect, the German public school system is most definitely not in the same league as the Canadian system.
> 
> Most studies would class Canadian public schools as Tier 1 and German as Tier 2 or Tier 3 (especially when it comes to educating foreign children).
> 
> Have you considered immigrating to Canada? Permanent residents don't have to pay (at least directly) for public schools.


Yes, Canada has been considered, however, it is too far west from our extended families. There is also the case of the Canadian universities being much more expensive than German ones. I've mentioned that before.

Thanks again.


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## ALKB

oprime05 said:


> Not being able to save anything really is an eye-opener. I know taxes are high, and I am use to paying about 35% income tax in my career. But, zero savings is a significant blow!


It's not just taxes but also health insurance and mandatory social contributions.

I can't calculate exactly because both your take home pay and living expenses will depend on many factors that I can't guess at, but your current salary would come to about 2312 € take home pay (there are ways to make this a bit better but not dramatically so).

If living in Germany on a residence permit - through your German job, for instance - you'd also be entitled to child benefit of 204 € per month.

So 2516 €.

Depending on where you live, this would not be very far from the minimum needed for a family of three and minimum means pretty much zero fun things possible. 

But then, IF you land a job in Germany, your qualification might get you a much higher salary.


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## Nononymous

oprime05 said:


> There is also the case of the Canadian universities being much more expensive than German ones. I've mentioned that before.


For citizens or permanent residents, Canadian university tuition is quite reasonable. Not free, of course, but nothing close to the insanity in the US. Around €5k per year on average.



> And finally, since we are interested in Medicine for our son, there is a list of top Medical universities in Germany that is intriguing.


Parenting tip: don't make career plans for a child who's not even in school yet. This will end with disappointment and misery. Actually don't make career plans for a child of any age.


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## oprime05

Nononymous said:


> Parenting tip: don't make career plans for a child who's not even in school yet. This will end with disappointment and misery. Actually don't make career plans for a child of any age.


That's one of those West versus East things, like Culture/Norms/Traditions. 

Take my arranged marriage for example, a concept that usually blows minds in the west. I did not get to meet my spouse until the marriage day! I can imagine readers going....

Yep, we talked over the phone, but did not meet face to face until the knot was officially tied! 

And hey...I've survived the marriage! 

Its true though, it does not work ALL the time. It's like a wise man once said....Marriage is a workshop, where the man WORKS, and the wife SHOPS! :tongue1:


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## Nononymous

Good luck adapting to non-patriarchal western society...


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## oprime05

ALKB said:


> It's not just taxes but also health insurance and mandatory social contributions.
> 
> I can't calculate exactly because both your take home pay and living expenses will depend on many factors that I can't guess at, but your current salary would come to about 2312 € take home pay (there are ways to make this a bit better but not dramatically so).
> 
> If living in Germany on a residence permit - through your German job, for instance - you'd also be entitled to child benefit of 204 € per month.
> 
> So 2516 €.
> 
> Depending on where you live, this would not be very far from the minimum needed for a family of three and minimum means pretty much zero fun things possible.
> 
> But then, IF you land a job in Germany, your qualification might get you a much higher salary.


Thank you for that math. It's good food for thought & helped me understand the living expenses part. :ranger:

And yes, it is a little concerning, to say the least. I say that because it at the onset it appears that there will be zero savings or close to very little from the €4600 salary.:confused2:

I'm use to total deductions of taxes & social contributions @ 35% of the paycheck, but what you have listed is more than that.

Thank you, again ALKB. You rock!


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## ALKB

oprime05 said:


> Thank you for that math. It's good food for thought & helped me understand the living expenses part. :ranger:
> 
> And yes, it is a little concerning, to say the least. I say that because it at the onset it appears that there will be zero savings or close to very little from the €4600 salary.:confused2:
> 
> I'm use to total deductions of taxes & social contributions @ 35% of the paycheck, but what you have listed is more than that.
> 
> Thank you, again ALKB. You rock!


You are welcome, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You'd probably get a good chunk back when doing your tax returns.

I know a few people from the subcontinent who used to work in the UAE or Saudi Arabia before coming to Germany and were not only shocked at the level of deductions but also because of the general lack of cheap domestic staff, no extra payments on top of the 'basic' salary from the employer for housing, schooling, car, etc. 

Generally, you won't come to work in Germany to save money. Germans and other Europeans go to places like Saudi for a few years to save amounts that they would not be able to save in decades in Germany and Europe in general.

Friends and family in Pakistan generally do not understand when we try to explain how things work here. It's just too far removed from their reality. It also doesn't help that a lot of people who have made it over don't show their real situation to save face. I have seen young men and even whole families take pictures in front of restaurants and cars they didn't own to show their families back home that they are doing well (and if you try to paint a realistic picture nobody believes you because the neighbor's son has sent such lovely pictures of his new car and he even opened a restaurant!!!)


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