# Being out of the country with a 10-year carte de resident



## Slushpup

Hi,

I am about to receive (I hope!) a carte de resident valid for 10 years. I thought that with a 10-year card, you are able to be out of the country for 3 years, but I’ve been reading some articles that say you can be out of the country for just 2 years. Have the rules changed? Thanks!


----------



## LoriEleanor

I was told 2 years by the Prefecture in Paris when I renewed my 10 year card in 2019. No idea if it has changed since then. They also ask for your passport so they can count all the exit and entry stamps in it.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Oh, take a look at the Service Public website, Things appear to have gotten a bit more complicated.

Start here: Titres, carte de séjour et documents de circulation pour étranger en France and then take a look at the 3 types of card listed under carte de résident.
A plain old "carte de résident" depends on if you meet one of the qualification categories (one of which is for those married to a French national) but follow the links for the other various categories.
Then there is the carte de résident longue durée UE - which requires that you have already lived in France for 5 years, but has this qualification:


> Toutefois, certaines absences sont autorisées (*absence maximum de 6 mois consécutifs pour un total d'absences de 10 mois*) et sont prises en compte dans le calcul des 5 ans.


The third category is the carte de résident permanant, which requires that you are renewing either a "plain old" carte de résident or a carte de résident longue durée UE. They don't mention any requirement for uninterrupted residence during your first card, nor do they stipulate a maximum absence from France. If you are turned down for this card, you can re-apply for the "longue durée UE" card (and, I suppose, try again when that expires).

But the "permanent" resident card runs also for 10 years, and is supposed to be renewable without conditions. (It is remarkably similar to taking nationality - which is a less expensive option if you compare the requirements.)


----------



## LoriEleanor

Interesting. When I renewed in 2019, they most definitely cared about when and for how long I was outside of France during the previous TEN years since getting my last 10 year card. They made a big deal about the subject and made sure they looked at every single stamp in my passport.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Oh, you're not "wrong" at all. The terms and conditions have been changing at a breathtaking pace the last couple of years. (I guess the administration folks were getting bored working from home all that time. <g>) It very much used to be 3 years absence. But that now seems to be taken into account mostly when going for the "longue durée UE" card. I suspect that where they say now that you need to have already had a 10 year card in order to "renew" and then get a carte de résident permanent it means that if they have any reason to doubt your "permanence" in France then they'll consider giving you another "longue durée UE" resident card and you can try again. 

But that whole process with the three different types of carte resident is quite recent.


----------



## LoriEleanor

Glad I don't have to deal with that. On my second 10 year card and rarely ever leave France.


----------



## mohsel

what is the difference between a plain old "carte de résident" and the carte de résident longue durée UE ?
I understand there might be a difference between who is eligible to each of them, but in the end both are valid for 10 years and I assume both give the same rights?
I couldn't get any info from the service public page about any carte de resident type !


----------



## LoriEleanor

Mine just notes Carte de Résident with the Titre de Séjour noted at top of card. Good for ten years.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Mohsel, just look at the first page I cited - and click on the line below the shaded box that reads: Accéder aux informations générales *sans renseigner ma situation. *That line and link is showing up on more and more pages there on Service Public. I think they're trying to get more specific about the information they give you - but you have to know the "trick" to getting to the more general information. Took me a while to figure it out - but it will give you a listing of the "index" of options and that's where you'll see three items listed under the heading of "Carte de résident."


----------



## vianina

This recent ruling by the ECJ (concerns the Netherlands but is applicable across the EU) finds that a short visit before the end of the relevant time limit is sufficient to reset the clock and maintain permanent residency: Permanent residence (for EU and British citizens) can be maintained with short visits - Franssen Advocaten


----------



## BackinFrance

vianina said:


> This recent ruling by the ECJ (concerns the Netherlands but is applicable across the EU) finds that a short visit before the end of the relevant time limit is sufficient to reset the clock and maintain permanent residency: Permanent residence (for EU and British citizens) can be maintained with short visits - Franssen Advocaten


But that applies only to UK and EU citizens.


----------



## BackinFrance

BackinFrance said:


> But that applies only to UK and EU citizens.


And I think only UK citizens who benefit from the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement.


----------



## vianina

BackinFrance said:


> But that applies only to UK and EU citizens.


In fact, the article I cited refers in its second paragraph to an analogous ruling on permanent residency of third-country nationals, on which the recent ruling was based:
"In the CJEU’s judgment of 20 January 2022, _Z.K.,_ the Court had issued an interpretation of the Long-Term Resident Directive (2003/109), a piece of EU legislation providing for a right of permanent residence of non-EU citizens. Where that Directive says that that right of residence can be lost ‘in the event of absence from the territory of the [EU] for a period of 12 consecutive months’, the Court ruled that it is not necessary to actually come back to reside in the EU before that period elapses: a visit of a few days is enough to maintain the status of long-term resident, and therefore the unconditional right of residence. This serves the interest of the long-term resident’s integration in the EU."


----------



## number9

In France if someone, who has the 10 year permanent residency card, spends up-to 2 years out of the country - where is their tax payable for that period? And would the French authorities get uppity if tax were paid in another jurisdiction for a year or two?


----------



## vianina

If the person is resident elsewhere at that time, tax will be payable wherever they are residing. The only reason for declaring any tax in France at that time (as far as I can see) would be if they have French-origin income (for example renting out their house). There was an ECJ ruling in January (CURIA - Documents) on what happens to your permanent residency status if you stay out of your host country for years while returning for short visits - in your case, if you visit once every slightly-less-than-two-years and keep the proof, then, according to the ECJ jurisprudence, you get to keep your permanent resident status. I don't think anyone can guarantee that the French authorities wouldn't get uppity, but you'd have European law on your side.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Just be careful with this - there is "residency" and there is "tax residency." There may be subtle differences between those two different statuses.


----------

