# Part time ******!



## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

I plan to move to Las Cruces, New Mexico and I would also like to spend part of my time in Mexico. It's about 50 miles from Las Cruces to the border crossing at El Paso, Texas. No, I don't plan to commit tourist suicide in Cuidad Juarez!  Any suggestions on nice locations within an hour's drive of the El Paso border crossing? Since I plan on living in Mexico on a transitory basis and for no more than 180 days at any single entry, do I need an FM3 visa or can I get by with the multiple entry FMT Tourist Card? Thanks!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you refer to a map, you will see that there isn't much of anything in the limits you suggest. The great Sonoran Desert is very large and very empty. There are only small villages, many off the road, for quite a long way into Mexico.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you refer to a map, you will see that there isn't much of anything in the limits you suggest. The great Sonoran Desert is very large and very empty. There are only small villages, many off the road, for quite a long way into Mexico.


So, realistically speaking, how far into Mexico would I need to travel to be in a "livable" location?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Chihuahua would be your first location with a population center and it is 368 Km from the border, or about three and a half to four hours. It is still a long way to places where expats might like to settle; another day or two on the road. You really should do some reading about Mexico and the various cities and towns that interest you. It would help to know what you are looking for.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Chihuahua would be your first location with a population center and it is 368 Km from the border, or about three and a half to four hours. It is still a long way to places where expats might like to settle; another day or two on the road. You really should do some reading about Mexico and the various cities and towns that interest you. It would help to know what you are looking for.


It would appear that I need to rethink my travel plans into Mexico! I certainly want to stay out of the line of fire of the drug gangs in the border towns, but not to the extent that I need to travel by air to a transient location in Mexico. I have medical needs that compel me to stay in the US for necessary health care services. I'm thinking that I'll have to make shorter forays into Mexico in order to stay within a reasonable driving distance of the border. Re my travel document, is an FMT appropriate for repeated short stays in Mexico or should I apply for an FM3 visa? Thanks for your suggestions and assistance!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The FMT is a single entry document and becomes invalid upon departure from Mexico. You must get a new one upon re-entry. The FM3 is a multiple entry visa, which requires proof of financial status and a mexican address. It must be renewed annually, in Mexico, with repeated proofs and a Mexican address. Renewal can take some time and any change of address must be processed through immigration authorities within 30 days.
There are many previous posts which discuss these matters, as well as temporary importation of vehicles, etc.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> The FMT is a single entry document and becomes invalid upon departure from Mexico. You must get a new one upon re-entry. The FM3 is a multiple entry visa, which requires proof of financial status and a mexican address. It must be renewed annually, in Mexico, with repeated proofs. Renewal can take some time and any change of address must be processed through immigration authorities within 30 days.
> There are many previous posts which discuss these matters, as well as temporary importation of vehicles, etc.


I'll start out with an FMT and see how my travel situation plays out. Should a temporary residence in Mexico become a practical reality, I then will apply for an FM3 visa and more defined travel time. I'll check out posts re the temporary importation of US vehicles.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

As RVGRINGO said, the Sonoran desert is very large and highway 45 to Chihuahua makes sense. However unless you are really into Pancho Villa, I would head for Creel as base to explore the Copper Canyon. Not sure this a long term residence but I've read some interesting stories about that area and I find it facinating. I believe one is by Dick Davis who is based in San Luis Potosi. Also Creel seems to have some reasonable hotels and restaurants to get you started on the area.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> As RVGRINGO said, the Sonoran desert is very large and highway 45 to Chihuahua makes sense. However unless you are really into Pancho Villa, I would head for Creel as base to explore the Copper Canyon. Not sure this a long term residence but I've read some interesting stories about that area and I find it facinating. I believe one is by Dick Davis who is based in San Luis Potosi. Also Creel seems to have some reasonable hotels and restaurants to get you started on the area.


After RVGRINGO's comments about the vastness of the Sonoran desert, I did a reality check and discovered that once one leaves the "friendly confines" of Cuidad Juarez, it's like being on the moon!  I checked out Chihuahua, Creel and the Copper Canyon. You're right, unless one is into Pancho Villa (I saw the photo of his shot up Dodge car in the museum; I'm impressed!), Creel appears to be a viable alternative to staying in Chihuahua. I was really impressed by the geography of the Creel/Copper Canyon area and the availability of lodging and eating establishments. My forays in Mexico will be of relatively short duration, 7 to 10 days, 2 weeks tops as I can not stray too far or too long from medical services in the US. Would it be possible to travel by bus from Las Cruces NM to Chihuahua and then rent a vehicle to travel to Creel? Or even better, rent a vehicle in Creel? I could then dispense with the temporary importation and insurance on my vehicle in Mexico. What about driving a rental vehicle in Mexico? Thanks!


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

I expect that you can do the whole thing by bus, and maybe train in copper canyon. When looking for bus links, I tend to go to Larpman's site as he consolidates most of the bus lines grouped into within Mexico and to Mexico from the US. I checked to Mexico and Autobuses Americanos has a line from Albaquerque(sp?) through El Paso to Chihuahua. The time from El Paso(two stations) to Chihuahua is 5hrs. I didn't go into within Mexico for the Chihuahua to Creel link.
I haven't done the train through Copper Canyon but I know most tours are West to East and end in Creel so you may be able to get ticket the opposite direction pretty cheap. Also, I do believe that Dick Davis did a series on taking buses in this area.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> I expect that you can do the whole thing by bus, and maybe train in copper canyon. When looking for bus links, I tend to go to Larpman's site as he consolidates most of the bus lines grouped into within Mexico and to Mexico from the US. I checked to Mexico and Autobuses Americanos has a line from Albaquerque(sp?) through El Paso to Chihuahua. The time from El Paso(two stations) to Chihuahua is 5hrs. I didn't go into within Mexico for the Chihuahua to Creel link.
> I haven't done the train through Copper Canyon but I know most tours are West to East and end in Creel so you may be able to get ticket the opposite direction pretty cheap. Also, I do believe that Dick Davis did a series on taking buses in this area.


Thanks for the info. I'll check out the sources that you mentioned. I'd rather take public transportation than take my personal vehicle into Mexico and concern myself with paperwork, insurance and possible breakdowns in the middle of nowhere.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

I did a little searching and the series by Dick Davis was called "From California to Guatemala: A Journey by Bus Across Mexico". The 2nd installment is how he got to Creel but he came from Hermosilio. Wjhat I did gather is that the bus from Chihuahua to Creel is Noreste bus line.Expect that you can take Autobuses Americanos from El Paso to Chihuahua and either stay over night or change to the Noreste bus to Creel. Given the 5 hour target El Paso to Chihuahua, expect that at least the 1st time good to overnight in Chihuahua. I think that you might be really interested in his 3rd Chapter "A Tourist's Delight: Days 6-10 Creel, Guachochi". In this he uses Creel as his base to explore the Copper Canyon region.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> I did a little searching and the series by Dick Davis was called "From California to Guatemala: A Journey by Bus Across Mexico". The 2nd installment is how he got to Creel but he came from Hermosilio. Wjhat I did gather is that the bus from Chihuahua to Creel is Noreste bus line.Expect that you can take Autobuses Americanos from El Paso to Chihuahua and either stay over night or change to the Noreste bus to Creel. Given the 5 hour target El Paso to Chihuahua, expect that at least the 1st time good to overnight in Chihuahua. I think that you might be really interested in his 3rd Chapter "A Tourist's Delight: Days 6-10 Creel, Guachochi". In this he uses Creel as his base to explore the Copper Canyon region.


Thanks for your time and information!  I never realized how complex a short visit in a foreign country can get compared to travel within the US. I will definitely need to "dot my i's and cross my t's" on this undertaking. What about renting a vehicle in Creel/Chihuahua and what are the paperwork and insurance requirements? I would like to explore the area at my own pace and a rental vehicle would certainly be the ideal choice. Thanks!


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

There tend to be both local and international rental agencies. I've only used agencies I know like Hertz, Budget, National, Avis. They tend to be in larger towns like Chihuahua that have airports. I've found that you can get much better rates booking online from the US than local and real value to weekly or monthly.
There are two things. 1st is insurance that is only bought locally and costs at least as much if not double the car rate. Since my US car insurance won't cover, I called all my credit card companies to understand coverage. I found that one of my cards covered everything, including collision and liability. I went on line and printed that out in multiple copies so that I could give one to the rental agency when I rejected the insurance. This caused the 2nd which is that before you drive off, you and everyone with you needs to go over the car for every dent, scrach outside and rip or patch inside. Also make sure both side view mirrors are working and not temporarily attached. Look at the tires for excess wear and make sure you have both a spare and a jack. Finally, verify the gas level. Make sure everything is documented and that you get a copy. The other thing is that you will have to sign two credit card slips. The second is for damage as they will bill your credit card and you will need get it cleared.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> There tend to be both local and international rental agencies. I've only used agencies I know like Hertz, Budget, National, Avis. They tend to be in larger towns like Chihuahua that have airports. I've found that you can get much better rates booking online from the US than local and real value to weekly or monthly.
> There are two things. 1st is insurance that is only bought locally and costs at least as much if not double the car rate. Since my US car insurance won't cover, I called all my credit card companies to understand coverage. I found that one of my cards covered everything, including collision and liability. I went on line and printed that out in multiple copies so that I could give one to the rental agency when I rejected the insurance. This caused the 2nd which is that before you drive off, you and everyone with you needs to go over the car for every dent, scrach outside and rip or patch inside. Also make sure both side view mirrors are working and not temporarily attached. Look at the tires for excess wear and make sure you have both a spare and a jack. Finally, verify the gas level. Make sure everything is documented and that you get a copy. The other thing is that you will have to sign two credit card slips. The second is for damage as they will bill your credit card and you will need get it cleared.


It's really not that much difference than renting a vehicle in the US. I always bite the bullet and take the rental agency provided collision and liability insurance. Yea, I take the hit on the insurance coverage, but God forbid, should I be involved in an accident, my fault or not, there is no question as to insurance coverage. I've seen too many stories about persons who waived the agency insurance coverage, had a reportable claim and had a nightmare affixing liability with the credit card coverage. I'd rather pay the extra bucks (or pesos) to avoid a liability pitfall.

Due diligence with a rental vehicle is standard SOP for me, documenting external/internal damage, tires, trunk contents, mileage, fuel level and fluid levels. I have the agency person sign off on the condition of the vehicle before I sign the rental agreement and take possession of the vehicle. I got burned one time on a rental and ended up paying for the replacement of a power steering pump ($$$!). Once burned, lesson learned!


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Sounds like a plan. However, I would read Dick Davis story as he seemed to find some very inexpensive small group tours out of Creel and for at least the 1st time might give you some idea of the terrain and what you might be getting into. Some areas sound pretty rugged.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Just a reminder: Don't forget that you must have a passport to get back into the USA.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> Sounds like a plan. However, I would read Dick Davis story as he seemed to find some very inexpensive small group tours out of Creel and for at least the 1st time might give you some idea of the terrain and what you might be getting into. Some areas sound pretty rugged.


At my age (63), I don't do rugged. I'd rather stick to the easy areas where I don't need to physically exert myself. Being an insulin dependent diabetic, physical exertion beyond a low to moderate level, could definitely cause me problems. And Copper Canyon sounds like the kind of place where medical problems could be potentially fatal!  I definitely think that I'd be better off controlling my own itinerary and schedule.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Just a reminder: Don't forget that you must have a passport to get back into the USA.


Thanks for the reminder!  I already have one of the new hi-tech passports.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you mean the passport card, please check the limitations on the card. I'm not sure if you can use it for more than crossing with a car, or on foot. I don't think you can fly with it.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you mean the passport card, please check the limitations on the card. I'm not sure if you can use it for more than crossing with a car, or on foot. I don't think you can fly with it.


Nope, not talking about a "passport card". I have a regular US passport that I got within the past year. It has all the new hi-tech security enhancements that started to be issued a few years ago. All the US passports will have the new security enhancements as they come up for renewal, or should DHS decide that the old style passports are too easily hacked and sets a cut-off date for use of the old style passports.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Ours are still the old style until we renew in a year or so.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

A couple things and then I'm done:
-1st, this started looking for places within a reasonable day trip from El Paso. RVGRINGO pointed out that because of the Sonoran desert, that pretty much leaves Chihuahua but that a short stay at best. My suggestion was to use Creel as a base to explore the Copper Canyon region. The scenery is supposed to be rugged but tours not necessarily so. If you wanted something else, I guess you could take the train to Los Mochis or drive Hwy 16 to Hermosillo and then to Guaymas and Bahio Kino but this now a multiday trip. Again I suggest that you read Dick Davis story on traveling and exploring the area.
-2nd, if I were you the 1st time I went, I would take the bus to Chihuahua stay over night to ensure can make bus the next day to Creel. I would stay there a few days taking tours to get a feel of the area rather than renting a car. Based on this, you can modify as you see fit in the future.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

If you want to be in a safe area with quick access back to the US, you might also check out Casas Grandes /Nueva Casas Grandes. I think it is about 3 or 4 hours southwest of Juarez. Lots of Mormons and Mennonites in the area, and lots of history, and quiet. Some of the people also speak English if your Spanish isn't great.

Yes, there have been drug-related murders in Nueva Casas Grandes, but here is some local information from someone who lives there, and contact information:

http://www.mataortizcalendar.com/traveling to the village.html


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Unfortunately, that area is still troubled with cartel violence, to the extent that even some of the Mennonites are pulling up stakes and moving to Jalisco, according to recent Mexican news reports. Many of them are evident, selling their wares, in Guadalajara.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Unfortunately, that area is still troubled with cartel violence, to the extent that even some of the Mennonites are pulling up stakes and moving to Jalisco, according to recent Mexican news reports. Many of them are evident, selling their wares, in Guadalajara.


It would appear that traveling south from Las Cruces, NM through El Paso into Mexico is looking like a bad idea.  The distance that I would have to travel just to get to a reasonably secure location is more than I can expect to tolerate, given my medical conditions. Perhaps I should wait until I move to Las Cruces and then decide on my Mexican travels from the LC perspective, taking into consideration the then current security and travel issues within Mexico. "Thank you" to all the OP's that have added to my knowledge base re travel within Mexico.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Travel within Mexico is easy and safe, the scenery is absolutely spectacular and the main roads, especially the toll roads, are excellent. Hotels in the 'centro' of any city can be very economical and the cities themselves are fascinating. However, there is that first 700 miles of northern desert to cross before you get to the more colonial population centers or the coastal resort destinations. The simple reason is lack of water and other resources; habitability.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Travel within Mexico is easy and safe, the scenery is absolutely spectacular and the main roads, especially the toll roads, are excellent. Hotels in the 'centro' of any city can be very economical and the cities themselves are fascinating. However, there is that first 700 miles of northern desert to cross before you get to the more colonial population centers or the coastal resort destinations. The simple reason is lack of water and other resources; habitability.


There's the "fly in the ointment", the first 700 miles of desert to cross into the interior of Mexico. Not going to happen!  I can tolerate 50-100 miles of intra-Mexico travel, but there is no way I can travel days into the interior of Mexico just to arrive at a tourist/transient location. Obviously, I'll need to travel further in the US, probably west of Las Cruces, before I considering entering Mexico. I really need to stay within a "reasonable" distance and travel time of a US health care facility. Once I move to LC, I'll have to check out the security and viability of a Mexican location that will keep me within my "reasonable" distance/travel limitations of a US health care facility.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I don't quite understand your medical needs, or why they would limit your travel; unless there is more to it than you have mentioned. There certainly are a lot of diabetics in Mexico, including expats living here permanently. The medications they require are readily available. Medical care in the major cities is absolutely wonderful; so good that many 'medical tourists' come to Mexico to receive care here, rather than in the USA. So, unless you are 100% covered, without minimums or co-pay in the USA, there may be no need to restrict yourself. If you don't enjoy driving for a day and a half to the interior, you might consider flying to somewhere like Guadalajara and renting a car or using luxury buses to tour from there.


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## ken_in_dfw (Nov 14, 2009)

Yes, RVGRINGO, I have to admit I'm a bit perplexed as to coalcracker's concern, too. I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic (with other health issues besides!) who has travelled all across México without any significant problems. It is, as they say in México, "_pan comido_" - a piece of cake.

Just make sure you take enough medications/medical supplies for your trip and include the prescription labels in case US Customs decides to closely examine your belongings on re-entry.

Depending upon one's physical abilities, I can see where hiking the back country might be difficult or impossible. But you've got the same limitations whether you're in the US or México. Just practice some common sense and you'll be fine.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> I don't quite understand your medical needs, or why they would limit your travel; unless there is more to it than you have mentioned. There certainly are a lot of diabetics in Mexico, including expats living here permanently. The medications they require are readily available. Medical care in the major cities is absolutely wonderful; so good that many 'medical tourists' come to Mexico to receive care here, rather than in the USA. So, unless you are 100% covered, without minimums or co-pay in the USA, there may be no need to restrict yourself. If you don't enjoy driving for a day and a half to the interior, you might consider flying to somewhere like Guadalajara and renting a car or using luxury buses to tour from there.


Besides being a "brittle" diabetic, I have other medical issues that I choose not to detail here. I live on a fixed income (Social Security Disability) and we won't get a COLA raise until 2012.  My health insurance is Medicare which is only valid in the US. I've checked out health insurance coverage in Mexico, and the only coverage I can afford is emergency medical care with a transfer to a US health care facility in close proximity of the border. In respect to persons coming into the US or leaving the US for health care, part of the Obama plan to fund health care reform is to levy a "customs duty" on such persons with the money going to health care funding. Parts or all of the health care reform bill is going to eventually pass Congress, so the funding will kick in immediately to raise necessary revenues to fund the bill. So, my Mexican travels are limited by my finances and the availability of US medical care. Those are the primary reasons why I need to stay within close proximity of the border.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

OK, that makes it easier to make a recommendation. You might consider a trip eastward from New Mexico into Texas, along the north shore of the Rio Grande. There is good scenery and several interesting towns and villages along the way with a very 'Mexican flavor'. When you pass through Mission, TX, where there is excellent medical care, to Weslaco, TX, take a right turn on FM1015 and drop down to the border at Progresso. You can actually leave your car on the US side and walk across the bridge into Nuevo Progresso, Tamaulipas, Mexico for the day. It is a neat little border town full of 'Winter Texans' from all over the USA each winter. As such, it has many good restaurants, a hotel, lots of souvenir shopping, dental & medical offices, farmacias, etc. You can spend a day or two there, sleeping in either country, and still be on top of the US medical care system, should you need it. You are also only 40 miles further to the beaches and seafood on the Atlantic coast in either country. Enjoy.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> OK, that makes it easier to make a recommendation. You might consider a trip eastward from New Mexico into Texas, along the north shore of the Rio Grande. There is good scenery and several interesting towns and villages along the way with a very 'Mexican flavor'. When you pass through Mission, TX, where there is excellent medical care, to Weslaco, TX, take a right turn on FM1015 and drop down to the border at Progresso. You can actually leave your car on the US side and walk across the bridge into Nuevo Progresso, Tamaulipas, Mexico for the day. It is a neat little border town full of 'Winter Texans' from all over the USA each winter. As such, it has many good restaurants, a hotel, lots of souvenir shopping, dental & medical offices, farmacias, etc. You can spend a day or two there, sleeping in either country, and still be on top of the US medical care system, should you need it. You are also only 40 miles further to the beaches and seafood on the Atlantic coast in either country. Enjoy.


OK! Now we're talking turkey! :tongue1: I have been in Progreso, TX on several occasions when I was an owner-operator leased to United Van Lines, Household Goods Division. Progreso was one of the locations that I considered in a relocation from PA. I discounted Progreso as it has limited availability of senior public housing (which is my current residence), and Las Cruces has a very active public housing authority. I could not afford private housing on my Social Security income. Progreso is about 835 miles from Las Cruces, taking US-83 south along the Rio Grande. This would be a 2 day drive for me and I would overnight about half the distance to Progreso. The last time I was in Progreso was in the mid-1980's, so I'm sure things have changed there, hopefully for the better. I did some Google searches and Progreso appears to be a good location from which to visit in Mexico. The new Progreso-Nuevo Progreso Bridge opened in 2003 and is a far cry from the old iron bridge that it replaced. US trucks were not allowed to travel more than a few km into Mexico, and the shipments had to be transferred to a Mexican trucking company to complete the delivery of the goods. Also, US trucks were not permitted to bring shipments out of Mexico. All this has changed within the past 10 years, for the better.

Since Nuevo Progreso is within the "Zona Fronteriza", do I need an FMT to enter Mexico, or will my US passport permit entry and egress?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

What's ironic, is that most of those "US Trucks" were actually built in Mexico. For example, Freightliner (owned by Daimler, just like Mercedes Benz and Smart) builds the queen of its fleet in its most modern plant; in Mexico.


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## coalcracker (Jan 14, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> What's ironic, is that most of those "US Trucks" were actually built in Mexico. For example, Freightliner (owned by Daimler, just like Mercedes Benz and Smart) builds the queen of its fleet in its most modern plant; in Mexico.


Back in my day, most trucks were still built in the US. It's true that many trucks are built in Mexico these days because of the labor costs in the US. Mack trucks still builds heavy hauling and highway trucks in Allentown, Pennsylvania. My tractor was a Diamond Reo that was built in Lansing, Michigan with a Detroit Diesel engine and a Road Ranger transmission. Diamond Reo ceased heavy truck manufacturing in the mid 1970's. My Kentucky trailer was built in Louisville, KY which is where I took delivery. Times have certainly changed in the past 40 years, and US manufacturing of just about everything has moved offshore and is a shell of its former self.


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## phredo (Aug 15, 2009)

*50 miles south of the border, but to the east...*

Although I am from the west myself (California), I couldn't help thinking that although it's all desert for a ways in western Mexico, if one were to drive closer to the Gulf coast, it might be a lot different. The post about Progreso starts to get into this, and I would like to hear more from people who know about it, about what sorts of nice places there might be south of east Texas, if it's really Americanized down there and built up, or what.

Even though it is rather far from California, there is a certain appeal, if only psychological, for driving more through the US, with its fast and free interstates, to a border where one might find a nice part of Mexico where one doesn't have to cross 600 miles of narco-infested desert.

So if anyone has information about what it's like to visit or live in Nuevo Leon or Tamulipas, I'd love to hear about it.

Fred


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You are correct in your assumptions. Much of northern Mexico is desert and much of the coastline is too hot and humid in the summer. However, if you look to the population centers where the colonial cities are located, you will discover some of the world's best climates, wonderful people, places to visit and explore, and everything from lakes, rivers and alpine forests.


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