# Reality Check



## Retired_MRD (Aug 20, 2014)

Hello All,
I am 47 years old and previously lived in Valencia. While I Spain, I fell in love with the country and its people. I have recently retired from my first career & am trying to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life. One thought that I have is to return to Spain as an Expat and pursue artistic interests and hobbies that I have neglected for the last 25 years of working 14 hour days. I think that I would like to simply enjoy life while I am still young. I need a reality check on the finances, my pension from my first career after taxes comes to about $6,200 per month. I would like to buy a 4 bedroom chalet with a nicely sized garden somewhere the Valencian metro region. I don't want to live extravagantly, but I do wish to live comfortably. Can this be done on my monthly income?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It depends whether you are a citizen of a European Union member state. You would have no problem living on that amount but if you are a US citizen you need to check out the visa situation.


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## Crab eater (Sep 13, 2013)

Retired_MRD said:


> Hello All,
> I am 47 years old and previously lived in Valencia. While I Spain, I fell in love with the country and its people. I have recently retired from my first career & am trying to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life. One thought that I have is to return to Spain as an Expat and pursue artistic interests and hobbies that I have neglected for the last 25 years of working 14 hour days. I think that I would like to simply enjoy life while I am still young. I need a reality check on the finances, my pension from my first career after taxes comes to about $6,200 per month. I would like to buy a 4 bedroom chalet with a nicely sized garden somewhere the Valencian metro region. I don't want to live extravagantly, but I do wish to live comfortably. Can this be done on my monthly income?


We live very, very comfortably on about half that income.
Can't imagine you'd have any problems unless you intend flying back to the States every month !
Assume you have the money for the house, and not thinking of a mortgage ?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

To save anyone else having to work it out, $6,200 is €4,665 at the current rate.

More than twice the average professional wage in Spain.


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## Retired_MRD (Aug 20, 2014)

Crab eater said:


> We live very, very comfortably on about half that income.
> Can't imagine you'd have any problems unless you intend flying back to the States every month !
> Assume you have the money for the house, and not thinking of a mortgage ?


I have money for a down payment on a house but would need to finance the majority of the cost.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Many could live well on a quarter of that income!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Retired_MRD said:


> I have money for a down payment on a house but would need to finance the majority of the cost.


:welcome:

the only way to know for certain if you qualify for a visa to live in Spain, is to contact your nearest Spanish Consulate - they will be the ones to issue any visa to you (or not) - so only they can tell you exactly what the requirements are (they seem to vary between consulates)

there are several types of visa

it's unlikely that you'd be grated a 'retirement visa' - they are really for actual retirees/pensioners - you're too young

a non-lucrative visa I think requires more funds than you say you have 

there is what has become known as the 'golden visa' - for that you'd need to buy property here for a minimum of 500,000€ free of financing


there are others - but as I say - the consulate needs to be your first stop before you take this any further


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## Retired_MRD (Aug 20, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> the only way to know for certain if you qualify for a visa to live in Spain, is to contact your nearest Spanish Consulate - they will be the ones to issue any visa to you (or not) - so only they can tell you exactly what the requirements are (they seem to vary between consulates)
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks for the info. I was in the military when I lived in Spain in the past so a visa was never an issue & it is was something that I did not even consider in this idea (which is still only an idea). I will take your advice a seek out info from a consulate. So you think that Spain uses age criteria for the retiree visa rather than a person's actual status?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Retired_MRD said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the info. I was in the military when I lived in Spain in the past so a visa was never an issue & it is was something that I did not even consider in this idea (which is still only an idea). I will take your advice a seek out info from a consulate. So you think that Spain uses age criteria for the retiree visa rather than a person's actual status?


I believe - from what I've read of those who have been refused - that they are less likely to issue a retirement visa to someone of working age

one point of the visa - in fact all 3 that I listed above - is that there is no permission to work - & the chances of someone of working age wanting to take up some kind of work are obviously higher than for someone older


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## Crab eater (Sep 13, 2013)

Retired_MRD said:


> I have money for a down payment on a house but would need to finance the majority of the cost.


In that case I'd recommend renting for a bit before tying yourself up with the Spanish mortgage system. But hey that's just the sensible thing to do and I don't fully understand your situation !


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## High5 (Aug 10, 2014)

Again a reality check. We're 54 years old and are close to completing on a property in CDS with no mortgage.
Our intention is to work for another 6 years. However this post got me thinking as we could leave the UK with £700k now. How long could we survive on this?

All comments appreciated positive, negative and just funny!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

A very, very, very long time!


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## Retired_MRD (Aug 20, 2014)

Crab eater said:


> In that case I'd recommend renting for a bit before tying yourself up with the Spanish mortgage system. But hey that's just the sensible thing to do and I don't fully understand your situation !


Thanks for your thoughts, I planned on renting at first as you suggest rather than buying right off the bat. The reason for my post really wasn't to focus on the mechanics of purchasing a home or getting a visa (although I greatly appreciate the advise and insight) but to get a feeling if my monthly pension was enough to live comfortably as it has been a while since I lived in Spain (left in 2008) and I was living in Spain under different financial circumstances (my 7 bedroom house was paid for by my employer). Understand that everyone has a different definition of "living comfortably"- to me, it is the Mediterranean lifestyle, a 4 bedroom house with nice outdoor living space and a little land for my dog to enjoy that is close to a largish city for cultural events and shopping. I don't plan on living an extravagant lifestyle, but at the same time I don't want to count pennies each month either.

So I think that what I am hearing so far from the forum members is that my pension income will be sufficient for what I want.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

High5 said:


> Again a reality check. We're 54 years old and are close to completing on a property in CDS with no mortgage.
> Our intention is to work for another 6 years. However this post got me thinking as we could leave the UK with £700k now. How long could we survive on this?
> 
> All comments appreciated positive, negative and just funny!


We were in a similar situation - we bought our house here in 2005 as a holiday home, planning to retire and move here permanently in 2014 when I would get my state pension and my husband would get his teacher's pension. 

But in 2008 our jobs had become too stressful, we were fed up with the UK and the lure of Spain was too great. So we sold the UK house, paid off the mortgage and moved over here. We didn't have a big cash lump sum but we've been able to live reasonably well on small occupational pensions until now.

The way I see it, by "downshifting" we bought ourselves six extra years of productive, stress-free and happy life in a beautiful place. No regrets whatsoever.

As for how long your £700k would last - it's quite possible for a couple to live comfortably on €15,000 a year if you don't have a mortgage or rent, so it would probably outlast you.


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## High5 (Aug 10, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> We were in a similar situation - we bought our house here in 2005 as a holiday home, planning to retire and move here permanently in 2014 when I would get my state pension and my husband would get his teacher's pension.
> 
> But in 2008 our jobs had become too stressful, we were fed up with the UK and the lure of Spain was too great. So we sold the UK house, paid off the mortgage and moved over here. We didn't have a big cash lump sum but we've been able to live reasonably well on small occupational pensions until now.
> 
> ...


Thank you . That's certainly got me thinking. Probably see how the next couple of years go. We don't have any debt and could see ourselves living a simpler stress free life.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> We were in a similar situation - we bought our house here in 2005 as a holiday home, planning to retire and move here permanently in 2014 when I would get my state pension and my husband would get his teacher's pension.
> 
> But in 2008 our jobs had become too stressful, we were fed up with the UK and the lure of Spain was too great. So we sold the UK house, paid off the mortgage and moved over here. We didn't have a big cash lump sum but we've been able to live reasonably well on small occupational pensions until now.
> 
> ...


We did exactly the same, with a cash lump sum that we knew would be supplemented by my OH's small local authority pension after the first 3 years (and more pensions to come in the future, so that cash lump sum only had to last a maximum of 10 years). We felt, and still do, just the same as you do, that we "bought" ourselves 10 extra years of retirement. We're 8 years into it now, and for the last few we've been spending a total of £14,000 per year on which we feel we live comfortably (no mortgage or rent), although certainly everybody's definition of that would be different.

No regrets here, either.


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## High5 (Aug 10, 2014)

Are you guys able to run a car on that 15,000 per year and do you get out much in terms of meals entertainment e.t.c.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

High5 said:


> Are you guys able to run a car on that 15,000 per year and do you get out much in terms of meals entertainment e.t.c.


We don't have a car (by choice) and don't need one as we live in a town with excellent public transport links. Our £14,000 pa includes me flying to the UK twice a year (OH doesn't want to come) and the stuff (clothes, etc) I buy there to bring back, plus we have 3 or 4 short breaks (3/4 nights each) around Spain each year, travelling on domestic flights or by rail, and another 2/3 single night stays in hotels if we want a night out somewhere without having to worry about getting home. Apart from when we're on holiday we probably eat out 3 times a month, sometimes more when we have visitors staying or friends on holiday nearby (after being here for quite a while I get pretty fed up of going to the same restaurants all the time). We don't often go out to bars, but we didn't do that much in the UK either. We go to more concerts now, a lot of things are organised for free in our town (just tonight we'd have a choice of 3 different free concerts to go to if we want, there have been weekly free jazz concerts throughout June, July and August and a week of free guitar concerts in July). My main leisure pursuit is keeping fit and our expenditure includes my membership of a good health club with private indoor pool.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

High5 said:


> Are you guys able to run a car on that 15,000 per year and do you get out much in terms of meals entertainment e.t.c.


Yes, we have a car which we bought over from England. Petrol is one of our biggest items of expenditure because we live in a village 50 km from the nearest big city. Fortunately most of what we need is available in walking distance. We try and rationalise things so we only use it once a week.

We go out with friends for drinks and tapas about three times a week on average (more in summer, less in winter). It's hard to spend more than €10 per person - beers are €1 each, a glass of Rioja €2, average tapas €2 each. About once a month we treat ourselves to a good restaurant meal, about €30 a head.

Most of the entertainment we enjoy is free, paid for by the town hall or local bars. This includes live music (flamenco, rock etc) horseriding displays, films, occasional dramatic productions. We also go on various organised nature/birdwatching tours during the cooler months, organised by the Junta de Andalucia for about €10 each.

It does depend on your lifestyle. We spend a lot of money on books but very little on our appearance. It somehow seems much less of a priority to get your hair done every month and wear smart clothes when you're not going to the office every day!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

High5 said:


> Are you guys able to run a car on that 15,000 per year and do you get out much in terms of meals entertainment e.t.c.


It's impossible to answer that without more details of your lifestyle and what you hope to do in Spain.
15000 euros wouldn't cover our year's rent! But then we decided to sell all the property we owned when we left the UK and rent a similar sized house to tha we owned...but with a pool!
But looking at 15000 euros a year...that gives you 1250 a month. Doable but not a fortune if you run a car, have a large house to heat and cool via air-con in summer, have gardens you need to irrigate or a pool to top-up in summer. I've just had the last quarter's water bill..almost 600 euros!!!! But we irrigate our front gardens and plants thoroughly as we don't want it to resemble the Sahara Desert...We don't irrigate the back gardens. They take pot luck.
You have to factor in internet and phone bills, any taxes payable or community fees if applicable, costs of running a car - fuel, insurances, repairs.
Then although you may be covered for free health care many people pay privately for additional services such as rapid ambulance response.
A lot will depend on where you live. We pay more as this is an expensive area compared to others. Our grocery bill for two adults, two large dogs and feeding the neighbourhood cats comes to 500 euros a month at least.

Of course it's possible to live on 1500 a month. Many people live on much less than that. But we get through 1000 euros a month before we pay the rent and we do not have a lavish lifestyle. We pay a gardener 100 euros a month as the garden is too big for us to maintain...and we don't want to maintain it. We've done that all our lives. We don't have a cleaner. Fuel comes to around 100 euros a month as public transport doesn't take us where we want to go. So added to 500 euros for food, around 400 euros a month for all utilities...there's over 1000 euros gone! We eat out about twice a month, that costs around 50 - 70 euros in a good restaurant. Again, you can eat well for less but we have our favourites and besides, we're retired and didn't pack hair shirts when we came here.

A lot will depend on where you decide to settle. But Spain is like everywhere else..you can't live on sunshine, sadly. Remember also that many people don't want a pared-down life when they retire...after years of working they look forward to an upgrade, as it were.

Remember also exchange rates fluctuate, prices rise....you have to take everything into account. But with the means at your disposal, you should be OK.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Sorry, I forgot to say our expenditure includes private health insurance for two people.

We don't have any pets, I know they can cost quite a lot!

Just shows how different everybody's tastes and needs are - I can't share Alcalaina's view about not needing to get my hair done every six weeks at least, or wear nice clothes, because I'm not going to the office any more. I swore when I came here that I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life in a T-shirt and shorts/trackie bottoms (depending on the season).


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## High5 (Aug 10, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies it's very helpful.

We won't have a mortgage or rent to pay but could still see it costing nearer €2000 euro a month with running a small car. We also have a large garden and pool to look after!

I've been a semi pro musician all my adult life so I might get a few gigs out there and its a way of meeting/making new friends if I join a band.( a few extra euro would be useful too)

For now we will just do regular visits to see if we think we could settle there.

Thanks again.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Sorry, I forgot to say our expenditure includes private health insurance for two people.
> 
> We don't have any pets, I know they can cost quite a lot!
> 
> Just shows how different everybody's tastes and needs are - I can't share Alcalaina's view about not needing to get my hair done every six weeks at least, or wear nice clothes, because I'm not going to the office any more. I swore when I came here that I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life in a T-shirt and shorts/trackie bottoms (depending on the season).


I don't dress permanently in shorts and t-shirts! I'm still wearing a lot of the clothes I bought over six years ago - they have migrated from "special occasion" to "everyday". Some of them are very nice, lots of silk tops, Monsoon and Per Una skirts and dresses that never really suited the English climate. They look fine here because you can wear just about anything at any age.

But dark jackets and officey stuff all went to the charity shop. I never ever want to wear tights or anything from Next again.  

I go to the hairdresser about every three months - €8.50 for cut and blow-dry. 

I confess that in anticipation of getting my state pension next month I've splashed out on a gorgeous flamenco dance dress to wear to the feria next week. It's been on my bucket list for a while. Olé!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I wear shorts and T shirts every day...my legs are still fit to be exposed to public view, if covered to the knee. But I like 'nice' shorts and T shirts and smart casual for going out or more formal occasions, preferably discounted designer stuff from TK Maxx when visiting the UK or when in Spain from sales at Cortes Ingles or Mango. 
A colour cut and blow-dry costs 80 euros every two months and a cut every month 20 euros. There are more expensive places and much cheaper places, the latter probably as good, but I've been using the same cutter for six years and I'm happy with her.
That's an expense I'd forgotten about, along with trips away, usually just a couple of nights somewhere in Spain or Portugal. I now only go to the UK once a year but I like to travel comfortably. That has to be included.
Because we agreed a deal with our landlord, we pay for the smaller repairs. This year we paid for the hot water cylinder to be fixed, the garden sprinklers to be replaced and the persianas to be repaired and serviced.
These things plus many more if you own the property have to be allowed for.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't dress permanently in shorts and t-shirts! I'm still wearing a lot of the clothes I bought over six years ago - they have migrated from "special occasion" to "everyday". Some of them are very nice, lots of silk tops, Monsoon and Per Una skirts and dresses that never really suited the English climate. They look fine here because you can wear just about anything at any age.
> 
> But dark jackets and officey stuff all went to the charity shop. I never ever want to wear tights or anything from Next again.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply that you are a scruff! I still have (and wear) some things I've had for 10 years or more, if you buy good quality things do last longer. I got rid of almost all my suits to the charity shop like you did, just hung on to a couple plus a few jackets which I do wear occasionally. I prefer skirts and dresses in the summer here to shorts anyway, I find them cooler. 

My hairdressing bill is €30 every six weeks, for colour, cut and blowdry. Miles cheaper than I used to pay in the UK, I was paying £55 for the same thing eight years ago, and the quality here is just as good. Of course I could pay a lot more if I went to an English/German/Scandinavian owned salon in Nerja, but why bother?

I don't think a flamenco dress would suit me at all, but I hope you enjoy wearing yours. I got driven around our feria in one of the horse-drawn carriages last year, courtesy of a young lad who I was helping with his English studies, who invited me to join the party in his grandfather's carriage. It was all I could do to stop myself doing the Royal wave to the assembled multitudes!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply that you are a scruff! I still have (and wear) some things I've had for 10 years or more, if you buy good quality things do last longer. I got rid of almost all my suits to the charity shop like you did, just hung on to a couple plus a few jackets which I do wear occasionally. I prefer skirts and dresses in the summer here to shorts anyway, I find them cooler.
> 
> My hairdressing bill is €30 every six weeks, for colour, cut and blowdry. Miles cheaper than I used to pay in the UK, I was paying £55 for the same thing eight years ago, and the quality here is just as good. Of course I could pay a lot more if I went to an English/German/Scandinavian owned salon in Nerja, but why bother?
> 
> I don't think a flamenco dress would suit me at all, but I hope you enjoy wearing yours. I got driven around our feria in one of the horse-drawn carriages last year, courtesy of a young lad who I was helping with his English studies, who invited me to join the party in his grandfather's carriage. It was all I could do to stop myself doing the Royal wave to the assembled multitudes!


I am a scruff, without doubt, but in a boho sort of way. :hippie: I did spend €35 at the hairdresser once, when I had a full head of highlights done, but it's hard to find things to spend your money on here.

I've lost 4 kg this summer so this dress is gonna look bloomin' _fantastic_. And after several macetas of rebujito I won't care anyway! :loco: Maybe one of the young dudes will sweep me up on the back of his horse ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I need all the artifice I can get in hair, clothes, everything. Last year I lost 5 kilos for health reasons so I could wear skinny jeans without looking like the rear end of a horse. But then I went to the UK for my son's big birthday party last month and seem to have put it on again.
It's in the genes (and jeans). As she got older, my mum, who was short, became quite stout - I think that's the best word to describe her. She had a horror of looking 'untidy' so was tightly corseted and actually had 'definition', so to speak. She looked as if a cannonball would bounce off her.
So in time that might be my fate but I think I'll pass on the corsetry and let it all hang out.

As for flamenco dresses...Sandra acquired one a couple of years ago for some local event. It was the full monty...a blue and yellow spotted ensemble. Alas it was so heavy she practically collapsed when she put it on...but she is very slim. It is our village feria this weekend and amongst other things it will feature flamenco from village performers. I'm wondering who we shall see and hear....the short fat woman from the tabac/post office, the blonde secretary and PSOE member from the consultorio, the elegant waiter from one of the cafes...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> As for flamenco dresses...Sandra acquired one a couple of years ago for some local event. It was the full monty...a blue and yellow spotted ensemble. Alas it was so heavy she practically collapsed when she put it on...but she is very slim.


I hadn't thought of them being heavy, but those very tight skirts to the knee always look very constricting to me, I'm tall and have a long stride and I don't think I'd like taking teeny weeny steps. Plus frills and flounces just always look plain WRONG on me so I am destined never to have a flamenco dress, sadly. I often admire them in shop windows, most of them are very, very expensive.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I hadn't thought of them being heavy, but those very tight skirts to the knee always look very constricting to me, I'm tall and have a long stride and I don't think I'd like taking teeny weeny steps. Plus frills and flounces just always look plain WRONG on me so I am destined never to have a flamenco dress, sadly. I often admire them in shop windows, most of them are very, very expensive.


The very thought of me wearing a flamenco dress is enough to send Sandra into paroxysms of laughter. I would look like Dick Emery in drag.

Sandra is tall and slim and surprisingly strong. I am short and stocky. Until I left the UK I was a regular at our local gym. Up at 5.45 every morning, cycling to the gym, workout, swim, cycle back home, shower, cycle to work, bounce into the staffroom full of health and vigour to receive in reply to my hearty greeting shouts of 'Piss off!!' from my jaded colleagues.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> . I would look like Dick Emery in drag.


 That's exactly my reason for not wearing high heels. I'd love a pair of killer heels but as they'd make me 6' 3" at least I don't think it'd be wise! Plus I'd probably break my neck before I got to the end of the street.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I enjoyed reading this thread and I am glad I can continue my hairdressers visits at a good cost , the work suits will definitely go to the charity shop but I think I will enjoy having the weather to wear nice dresses without worrying , will I need a coat ? I will also enjoy having leisurely breakfasts on the terrace and getting dressed 'later' The flamenco dress ,well you never know


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## Crab eater (Sep 13, 2013)

I'm just fascinated how much you spend on your hair !


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Crab eater said:


> I'm just fascinated how much you spend on your hair !


Some people need more help than others....
When we first arrived in Prague we looked for a hairdresser. We wanted a good one as we had frequented pricey places in the UK but mainly because I had never in my life seen as many dreadful haircuts, male and female, as I saw in Prague. Dreadful dye jobs, knife and fork cuts...
At that time, 2005, before those American *******s had screwed up the world's financial system, you got an awful lot of Czech koruny to the £. So we found out the poshest stylist in Prague, a rather effete but very pleasant German called Mark. 
He was a tad pretentious but an excellent cutter. Trouble was, he would only book one client at a time and a cut and colour could literally take four hours Many's the time I've gone in in sunshine and emerged to find deep snow. 
All this used to cost around £150 which was a fortune to Czechs who thought we were mad but for the first time in my life I enjoyed a real 'West End' experience and for that alone it was worth every penny or I should say koruna.
I wouldn't pay that now, though...but I don't have to as there are a lot of good stylists within a short drive at considerably less cost.
But if you'd seen some of the handiwork of Czech hairdressers you'd do what we did...ut of sheer terror!


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## Anciana (Jul 14, 2014)

Aside from the visa situation you'd also have to check the Spanish-USA double taxation treaty. I am afraid your pension might be taxed in Spain, as the tax in US is lower. You might also look at moving to Portugal instead, where you can apply for a NHR (non habitual resident) visa, which would allow you to live there tax free for 10 years. And the cost of living in Portugal is lower. It is colder in the mainland Portugal, though, but there is Madeira. Good luck.


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