# Relocating to Johannesburg



## jvalentine (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi

My name is Jenny and my husband just landed a new job in Johannesburg. We've got 2 very young children aged 2years old and the youngest is 5 months old. upon knowing my husband's new job, i researched about the place and realized how dangerous the place is. So now, i am a bit apprehensive into moving to south africa especially with my very young family but something inside me also wants to be wherever my husband is. Can anyone advise us as to where is the safest place to stay in Johannesburg (my hubby's office is in bruma) and also the present situation of the place... cheers


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Jenny the safest place is called Thornhill estate at Modderfontein,about 20 minutes from Bruma.
The biggest threat is not the crime but in your not recognising when you are doing something "silly".
Your husbands Company need to get someone from a risk assesment Company to brief you(and no, I dont know who to recommend) and to also check out your rented accomodation iro
security.
I strongly suggest that is non-negotiable.
The second thing is that if someone local offers you advice, take it to heart.
you need to get into an awareness routine.
good luck
.


----------



## Darko (May 6, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Jenny the safest place is called Thornhill estate at Modderfontein,about 20 minutes from Bruma.
> The biggest threat is not the crime but in your not recognising when you are doing something "silly".
> Your husbands Company need to get someone from a risk assesment Company to brief you(and no, I dont know who to recommend) and to also check out your rented accomodation iro
> security.
> ...


Sound advice. Follow it.

But it's not as bad as media suggests.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Darko said:


> Sound advice. Follow it.
> 
> But it's not as bad as media suggests.


Until it happens to you, that it.


----------



## vaunt (Nov 15, 2008)

And you get shot in Bleak Melbourne- gangster style...


----------



## vaunt (Nov 15, 2008)

But seriously- enjoy Jhb it's far better than it's made out to be. Great weather and and very interesting culture! Just be careful the nervous nellys and doomsayers. Good luck


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

vaunt said:


> And you get shot in Bleak Melbourne- gangster style...


That's just a puerile thing to say :ranger:


----------



## Grabal58 (May 19, 2009)

Hi Jenny, 
Don't listen to the doom mongers, it's great here, as long as you are aware of where you are, what you are doing, and whats around you.........just like any major city in the UK then!!!!!!
I have been here with my partner for a while now and we both love it, we have never had any problems with security and never felt threatened in any way, but we are careful and observant. Your hubbys company should take responsibility for introducing you into the environment here and selecting a safe area but basically the Northern suburbs are the place to be, anywhere around Sandton (where we are) Bryanston, Fourways, Modderfontein is also OK.
Let me know if you need any further information, but seriously you don't have to worry its a great place to be.
Graham


----------



## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Grabal58 said:


> Hi Jenny,
> Don't listen to the doom mongers, it's great here, as long as you are aware of where you are, what you are doing, and whats around you.........just like any major city in the UK then!!!!!!
> I have been here with my partner for a while now and we both love it, we have never had any problems with security and never felt threatened in any way, but we are careful and observant. Your hubbys company should take responsibility for introducing you into the environment here and selecting a safe area but basically the Northern suburbs are the place to be, anywhere around Sandton (where we are) Bryanston, Fourways, Modderfontein is also OK.
> Let me know if you need any further information, but seriously you don't have to worry its a great place to be.
> Graham


Wow, sounds like the Garden of Eden! Think I will leave tranquil southern SPain and move back to the peace of Johannesburg then! Not............


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Grabal58 said:


> but seriously you don't have to worry its a great place to be.
> Graham


This statement is untrue.... "buyer beware"


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Grabal58 said:


> Hi Jenny,
> Don't listen to the doom mongers, it's great here, as long as you are aware of where you are, what you are doing, and whats around you.........just like any major city in the UK then!!!!!!
> I have been here with my partner for a while now and we both love it, we have never had any problems with security and never felt threatened in any way, but we are careful and observant. Your hubbys company should take responsibility for introducing you into the environment here and selecting a safe area but basically the Northern suburbs are the place to be, anywhere around Sandton (where we are) Bryanston, Fourways, Modderfontein is also OK.
> Let me know if you need any further information, but seriously you don't have to worry its a great place to be.
> Graham


Graham, so Jenny can carry on and do everything as she and her family did in the UK, just be a bit more aware and dont walk down dark streets at night?


----------



## michaeltd (Jul 11, 2009)

Halo said:


> This statement is untrue.... "buyer beware"


I agree with Grabal58. I have lived in Sandton for 6 months and so far.have not had any bad experiences wrt crime  You must not forget that crime is a problem in SA and you should never be complaisant. It is not however as bad as I reported back in the UK. The standard of living in the northern suburbs is superb and I agree this is the most suitable area for an expat family..


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

michaeltd said:


> I agree with Grabal58. I have lived in Sandton for 6 months and so far.have not had any bad experiences wrt crime You must not forget that crime is a problem in SA and you should never be complaisant. It is not however as bad as I reported back in the UK. The standard of living in the northern suburbs is superb and I agree this is the most suitable area for an expat family..


When you're behind your fortress its normally fine.... but if you want to be free and travel not only to and from the Mall, its another thing entirely.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

And while Graham and michaeltd live there they should also be on the lookout for the following posted for those areas they mentioned.
But dont call the SAPS, they are a bit short of vehicles, call the armed response Companies. 


BE ON THE LOOK OUT FOR......
"These vehicles have been involved in House robberies. If you see any of these vehicles, contact SAPS as soon as
possible.
1. Silver Bantam Bakkie - VPG 087 GP (false Plates)
2. Black Proton with tow bar - SYB 242 GP (awaiting confirmation)
3. White Nissan bakkie 1400 -VBL 472 GP (false plates)
Suspects all carry handguns and are well dressed.
If you spot any of these vehicles, do not worry about registrations, they could be false.
If you feel that there is something suspicious ~ do not hesitate to call SAPS or our control room on 086 ******* 
Look out for red Corsa Sedan and Telkom posers
Please note that a similar vehicle with Registration No. RHP 614 GP was seen parked in the Juweel Park. There were 2
black male occupants inside the vehicle."


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Graham, so Jenny can carry on and do everything as she and her family did in the UK, just be a bit more aware and dont walk down dark streets at night?



Grabal,Do you think you could answer my question??


----------



## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Grabal,Do you think you could answer my question??


Still hiding in the fortress methinks...........


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

*Not that Bad*



Darko said:


> Sound advice. Follow it.
> 
> But it's not as bad as media suggests.


Hey Jenny - as an Expat to the Uk and living in SA most of my life, it is not as bad as made out. Yes you have to be aware, but life is good, and the weather is brilliant. You will quickly make friends. 
Will let you know of a company to speak to....tell your husbands firm to set up a service provider for you - they will guide you with the best knowledge of areas and where to put the kids.


----------



## Irish Lout (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree with the point made by SABrits.

I studied this forum when I considered relocating to Johannesburg - it was so negative and depressing (usually the same 3-4 persons dominating all the threads), however I decided to come down to see it for myself and speak to a lot of people. Im glad I did - the picture is completely different to most of the negative comments here...

Stick to the safe areas, use common sense etc and you will be fine. The standard of living here is fantastic and so much to do outside the city too. I dont feel a fortress living in my house and dont feel nervous driving to any of the malls.

My advice if youre considering moving here - come for a week or two to see things for yourself and speak to the people in your prospective new company who actually live here.

Take all the "extreme" doomongering with a pinch of salt.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Irishlout, can you advise which are the safe areas to stick to in Johannesburg/Pretoria?
the ones that dont have the hi-jackings and armed invasions the "doomongers" pinch of salt
should be taken with??


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey Grabal. do you think this might take long?


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Irish Lout said:


> Stick to the safe areas, use common sense etc and you will be fine. The standard of living here is fantastic and so much to do outside the city too. I dont feel a fortress living in my house and dont feel nervous driving to any of the malls.
> 
> Take all the "extreme" doomongering with a pinch of salt.


Could you please elucidate on these "area's". Many thanks.


----------



## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Hi Irishlout, can you advise which are the safe areas to stick to in Johannesburg/Pretoria?
> the ones that dont have the hi-jackings and armed invasions the "doomongers" pinch of salt
> should be taken with??


pathetic.

I did not see armed invasions even in Midrand !


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

arnaud said:


> pathetic.
> 
> I did not see armed invasions even in Midrand !


Hey Arnaud, why do you choose Midrand?
I lived there from 1979 till 2004.
which of the Suburbs Violent crime rates would you like to discuss
Vorna Valley?Kyalami Gardens? Noordwyk? Countryview?across to Glen Austen and President Park?
or down to Crowthorne and Beaulieu?

I can fill this page with probably 20 plus incidents that have happened to people in my very close circle of friends?
Armed Home Invasions ,Robberies, Murder,Rapes, Hi-jackings? all in the Midrand
suburbs I mentioned above.
Lets e tho, some good advice!
New Rd offramp, coming from Sandton, dont stop at the Robots late at night, they hide behind the Armco barriers on the left hand side, if you turn left, and then 1st left again, the Fourway stop is a favourite, if you get down to the small shopping centre on the left, my wife's 21 Yo PA was kidnapped outside the Gym there and gang raped, one of the Detectives GF at the midrand SAPS station was caught wearing her stolen designer Tracksuit.
Friends daughters Fiance died last year after being shot in a hi-jack in Vorna Valley, June this year Sampson(cant remember his first name) was hi-jacked and mananged to kill one of the hi-jackers with a knife
etc..etc..
shall I continue? Arnaud?
or will you refer to me as a Racist again?


----------



## Irish Lout (Aug 2, 2009)

Well lets so - I dont see many "armed invasions" and hi-jacking in areas like Dainfern, Fourways Gardens etc, not even in Parkhurst. 

Halo & Daxk, I think its time someone stood up to you both. Im sick of seeing you bully people with different views to your own and pour so much negativity and scare mongering in these forums. You dont live here now and base all your opinions on your past experience. Times have changed, things have moved on - I wish you both would too.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Irish Lout said:


> Well lets so - I dont see many "armed invasions" and hi-jacking in areas like Dainfern, Fourways Gardens etc, not even in Parkhurst.
> 
> Halo & Daxk, I think its time someone stood up to you both. Im sick of seeing you bully people with different views to your own and pour so much negativity and scare mongering in these forums. You dont live here now and base all your opinions on your past experience. Times have changed, things have moved on - I wish you both would too.


"You don't see many" - now that's comforting.

"Times have changed" - How so? - All indicator say otherwise, why should you be believed?


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

"Stick to the safe areas, use common sense etc and you will be fine. The standard of living here is fantastic and so much to do outside the city too. I dont feel a fortress living in my house and dont feel nervous driving to any of the malls.

My advice if youre considering moving here - come for a week or two to see things for yourself and speak to the people in your prospective new company who actually live here.

Take all the "extreme" doomongering with a pinch of salt."

Irishlout, I lived in SA for 54 years, I've lived in Ardrahan Galway, Co Galway for the past 5 years, 
Are you saying Dainfern and Fourways Gardens are totally safe?
That people dont need to worry as long as they only live there?
I asked you to justify your comments,

Now please show me where I am bullying you?

If you dont want adverse comment, dont use language such as "i've been here for 3 months, 7 days and 12 hours and have'nt experienced any crime so there is no crime, you can live your life exactly as you used to in Europe/Ireland etc.. nothing will happen its all doom mongering"
I agree with you, I would not walk around with a Nikon and lots of cash around Moyross in Limerick, parts of Dublin, the Docks in Galway, most of London, Central park in NY,
or around JHBG.
My point is that crime in all of the above is mostly opportunistic, the bad crime in SA comes looking for you at home.
And that includes Dainfern 1 & 2 as well as most of Jhbg and Pta affluent suburbs.
Dont try and BS or minimise the care that people need to take and you wont hear from me.


----------



## Irish Lout (Aug 2, 2009)

Halo - why dont you come down to Johannesburg to visit and see things for yourself rather than feed off every negative post from Daxk. 

Daxk, yes we all know you lived in SA and you must be the supreme expert on everything going on down here and must had had some very bad experiences during your time here.

The fact is there are others like me who are enjoying living in Johannesburgh, feel safe, and havent seen anything like the violence you keep on harping on about. They probably dont visit or post on here much anymore since you seem to dominate most of the posts and try to drown out any which dont align with your own.

Lets take Dainfern as an example - security there is top notch, you could leave your doors unlocked and go on holiday without a worry. Wait, Im sure you'll dredge up some "experience" from 50 years ago to prove me otherwise.

You'll never bully me but its obvious from all the posts you ram down peoples throats when they have the temerity to state they like living in Johannesburg you really have a chip on your shoulder. You cant seem to accept Johannesburg isnt the ****-hole you make it out to be (yes there are some really bad areas in the city but dont all capital cities have their problems?)

What you call BS is what I call my opinion - and Im entitled to it - and none of your weary, outdated stories will change it otherwise. 

I'll leave you to go back to your scrap book and pass judgement on a city you dont even live in anymore.


----------



## chinasing (Mar 19, 2009)

*Thank You Irish Lout*

I too agree with you as I'm sure plenty of others that visit here regularly...Daxx and Halo are 2 individuals who can't let go and move on with their lives if S.A was all that bad why do you insist on spending your time in a S.A forum. Why cause your lives are worse off wherever you are now? Please it's people like you with your shallow minded mentality that make people reluctant to go out and experience for themselves a great country with numerous opportunities!!
Irish Lout I applaud you for taking a stand, against all the negativity as some people are bitter that their racist government is no longer in power and therefore had to flee to other countries barely etching out a living ...when will the insanity stop??


----------



## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

chinasing said:


> I too agree with you as I'm sure plenty of others that visit here regularly...Daxx and Halo are 2 individuals who can't let go and move on with their lives if S.A was all that bad why do you insist on spending your time in a S.A forum. Why cause your lives are worse off wherever you are now? Please it's people like you with your shallow minded mentality that make people reluctant to go out and experience for themselves a great country with numerous opportunities!!
> Irish Lout I applaud you for taking a stand, against all the negativity as some people are bitter that their racist government is no longer in power and therefore had to flee to other countries barely etching out a living ...when will the insanity stop??


You have got a point !
In fact many Saffas oversea don't accept that a black government can rule the country. I have to admit that the ANC is far from perfect (corruption, lazyness...), but it is far more difficult to govern 45 000 000 lives than 5 000 000.

Daxx seems to regret the good old time and give us incorrect information (1 000 000 whites left the country out of 4 000 000 when it is 800 000 out of 6 000 000).

It is true white farmers are targeted by some intruders and can die for whatever reasons, and it is true that some "areas" are dangerous. But South Africa is not Hillbrow as a whole. It is like comparing UK to East London (Londonistan) or comparing Ireland to "dangrous" suburbs of Dublin.

It is our choice to leave a country for greener pastures, but please don't bash the country if you don't want to be part of its future (I say that as well for many kiwi whi are bashing new zealand for crimes, immigration and bad paid jobs, and living in Australia)


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

chinasing said:


> I too agree with you as I'm sure plenty of others that visit here regularly...Daxx and Halo are 2 individuals who can't let go and move on with their lives if S.A was all that bad why do you insist on spending your time in a S.A forum. Why cause your lives are worse off wherever you are now? Please it's people like you with your shallow minded mentality that make people reluctant to go out and experience for themselves a great country with numerous opportunities!!
> Irish Lout I applaud you for taking a stand, against all the negativity as some people are bitter that their racist government is no longer in power and therefore had to flee to other countries barely etching out a living ...when will the insanity stop??


As usual : Attack the individual and not the issues. (add the usual racist rhetoric and you have the post of another uninformed individual)


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Beyond this,I'm not even going to bother to answeras to why, its been answered so many times before.
Irishlout.
Leaving your back door open and being burgled is so commonplace its considered a petty Crime and is not why most SA Expats wont go back.
Yes,Dainfern has good Security, better than most.
But they still dont count that the same amount of bodies on a the back of a builders truck going out are the same amount as going in, they are supposed to but they dont.
nd yes, I can "dredge"up some incidents, why bother, I made it quite clear in my earlier post, 
if a huge amount of bad experiences, as well as the SAPS Crime stats all say Jhbg is the worst hit for Violent crime, Why do you wish to minimise or make it appear that it is so safe?

Chinasing, racism again?? 
Arnaud, the the figures were taken from the census statistics which are the most accurate indicator of emigration as they measure bums on seats in SA at a particular date,
where do you get a population figure of 6 million from?

For some strange reason the Census figures are no longer freely available, you have to apply to a Government minister to gain access


----------



## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Beyond this,I'm not even going to bother to answeras to why, its been answered so many times before.
> Irishlout.
> Leaving your back door open and being burgled is so commonplace its considered a petty Crime and is not why most SA Expats wont go back.
> Yes,Dainfern has good Security, better than most.
> ...


Get a look on Population census in SouthAfrica Info :
South Africa's population - SouthAfrica.info
White population : 4,3 million (not 3 million) living in SA
Please look at the demographic of South Africa on Wikipedia :



> As of July 2008, there were 5,265,300 Whites and over 1,500,000 White households residing in South Africa.[citation needed] The White population density is 4/km². The density of White households is 1.16/km². Whites make up 11% of the total population.
> 
> Since 1994, several hundred thousand white South Africans have emigrated abroad. This figure is often erroneously quoted as being over one million, but in fact the total population of South Africans living outside of the country is less than a half million (this false information is possibly based on the fact that almost one million white South Africans have moved to another country during the period of 1994-2005, but the majority have returned to South Africa and not permanently settled in the foreign country). Similarly, it is often quoted that there are a half a million white South Africans in London, when in fact there are less than 150 000 in the whole of the UK. There are in fact more British Citizens resident in South Africa (212 000, according to the BBC's 2006 report) than there are South Africans in the United Kingdom.


5,265,300 Whites (among them, 4,4 million SAFFA, and 865 000 foreigners, mostly british, zimbaweans, germans...)

5,265 + several hundreds abroad =~ 6 million.

What about your facts ?


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Arnaud, very quickly, the figure of 841,000 Expat South Africans came from a study undertaken by the Institute of Race relations, a very reputable South African institute founded in 1929 and reported by its director john KAne berman to an ANC Think Tank regarding the Skills Crises and Flight of Skills in 2006.
Those figures were gleaned from Census surveys, electoral registers and SARS input.

Now as to your figures, we are talking about South Africans who left and I agree with your figure of a Saffa population of 4.5 million (4,472,100 estimate 2009) the balance to the 6 million figure you quote dont count as they are Foreigners.
We are and were talking about South Africans who left? not so?

The Wiki report you quote means very little as anyone can post a Wiki report.

The SA Govt have refused to divulge figures of those who have left as well as those who have returned since 2004.
They have the accurate information as ,by law, every SA Citizen HAS to leave on a SA Passport irrespective of how many other passport Nationalities they may have.
These are recorded at every Airport and international Border Post.

If the majority had returned then:
There would'nt be an ongoing skills shortage.
The Govt could accurately say exactly how many SA Expats there are.
They have'nt and refuse to.
Why?

As to the figures quoted for SA's overseas.
Every Country gives those figures from their own Census figures.

However, someone who has a British ancestral passport, or a French or Irish or a Dutch one is a citizen of the country whose passport they also hold.
Will they now be counted as South African living in Britain or as British?
South Africans in Britain (and elsewhere) who are on PR or work visa's will be counted as South Africans.

Back to SA.

Why is the 2006 census not released yet?
Why is there still a skills shortage?

So what about your facts?


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Hi Irishlout, can you advise which are the safe areas to stick to in Johannesburg/Pretoria?
> the ones that dont have the hi-jackings and armed invasions the "doomongers" pinch of salt
> should be taken with??


Yup - go to Harties if you know where that is!


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

And I agree. You are both giving negative feedback. You have left and have your reasons. Dont slam what you dont know anymore. Crime happens worldwide!


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

SABrits said:


> And I agree. You are both giving negative feedback. You have left and have your reasons. Dont slam what you dont know anymore. Crime happens worldwide!


Then disprove what I state.
Fact, not conjecture.
Crime might happen Worldwide, but we are talking about SA and its violent Crime.
And if that makes it uncomfortable for people who only like good news stories . 
tough.
I still have investments there,I still have Family there.
the Powers that be dont listen to its citizenry,they listen to International media and exposure.
This is an International site.
read a thread called SA Haters that I started on here sometime ago.

But post that crime happens everywhere,that only racists complain, that I must hate the Country etc..etc.. etc.. and I will post uncomfortable truths.
I dont do personal, only facts.


----------



## Irish Lout (Aug 2, 2009)

Daxk, you can pull out every pedantic figure from your 50 year old scrap book (while you quickly disparage the source of others) and you can interpret it anyway you want - the fact is WE LIVE HERE, we experience life on a daily basis, want to be part of its future and add our contributions in a meaningful way to improve this country and the fact is we ENJOY it too. Your experiences are frankly, very boring and repeated so many times - we are living for the future and not mired in your past.

Its not a perfect country nor a perfect city and there are real secruity concerns which need to be managed, no-ones "minimising" the reality, but it has so much to offer too - my wife and 3 year old daughter feel safe and love he lifestyle here. We dont want to go back to the UK.

Daxk, honestly, its time to let the past go - since you are living in Ireland (a beautiful country!) why not enjoy it there and let people come down to South Africa and make their own minds up for themselves.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Irish Lout said:


> Daxk, you can pull out every pedantic figure from your 50 year old scrap book (while you quickly disparage the source of others) and you can interpret it anyway you want - the fact is WE LIVE HERE, we experience life on a daily basis, want to be part of its future and add our contributions in a meaningful way to improve this country and the fact is we ENJOY it too. Your experiences are frankly, very boring and repeated so many times - we are living for the future and not mired in your past.


Nobody is disputing that but just like you have your opinion, I have mine which is based on:
Personal experience (having lived there for a number of years)
Crime Statistics
1st and 2nd hand accounts of crime affecting family and friends to a degree never experience in any other western country.



Irish Lout said:


> Its not a perfect country nor a perfect city and there are real security concerns which need to be managed, no-ones "minimising" the reality, but it has so much to offer too - my wife and 3 year old daughter feel safe and love he lifestyle here. We dont want to go back to the UK.


This is once again your choice but just because you feel its safe does not make it so.



Irish Lout said:


> Daxk, honestly, its time to let the past go - since you are living in Ireland (a beautiful country!) why not enjoy it there and let people come down to South Africa and make their own minds up for themselves.


That they should but before one takes the leap of faith(sic) people need to know all sides of the story. Life in SA can be Heaven but it can also be Hell. 

PS Make sure that if you come to SA you have $ for all those insurances and earn a good wage or life will be miserable.


----------



## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

Halo said:


> Nobody is disputing that but just like you have your opinion, I have mine which is based on:
> Personal experience (having lived there for a number of years)
> Crime Statistics
> 1st and 2nd hand accounts of crime affecting family and friends to a degree never experience in any other western country.
> ...



Fair points well made, which would apply anywhere in the world.


just one thing where can i go and not have to pay loads of insurance and not have to earn a good wage cause im off there. (just dont tell the wife)


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Stevan said:


> Fair points well made, which would apply anywhere in the world.


Not to the levels in South Africa. In the UK/OZ/Europe burglary really end up with death/rape. Life hold little value in many parts of SA.



Stevan said:


> just one thing where can i go and not have to pay loads of insurance and not have to earn a good wage cause im off there. (just dont tell the wife)


UK, Canada, Australia, and most of Europe where health-care is free. Where the aged get looked after - Have you seen how the elderly with no money get treated in SA?
Car and home insurance in the UK is a pittance in % of earnings compared to SA.

I could go on and on..... 

And if you are stuck in SA and earning Rands - Ouch


----------



## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

I would remove UK from your list. THe sad fact is pensioners are forced to sell there houses to fund the care they need. They struggle to make ends meet on just the state pension. The NHS is disintergrating. The traditional european destinations for expats are now to expensive because of the strong euro. this is why so many are looking further afield. 

Car and home insurance, are for many, seen as a luxuary item and are forgon for many. 

I agree that poor south african pensioners get little or nothing. This i agree is a terrible situation. The fact is that UK pounds go a lot further in South Africa than they do in Europe. This is why more people are looking to South Africa as a possible retirment destination.

With out a back up income in £/$ I would seriously consider another destination.

As I have said before we are all entitled to an opinion. We then must decided whos opinion we believe. That is why debate is good. 

For me South Africa is great and I love my life. Is it right for everybody, no definatley not. 

That is why the debates on these forums are so important, I just wish that they would not fall into personal insults so often.


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

Move on to another forum- there is an Expat forum in Ireland. You are an expat in Ireland - but a guest. 

The people who are expats in SA are guests and are treated as such and have far more manners in 'your' country. Maybe you could give them the same back!


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

I agree totally. Leave the personal reasons behind. The country is great and has a lot to offer to those who are willing to put the time and effort there. For some of us, there was no choice to remain - but would I retire there YES! Why? Because I can get health care, I will be looked after by family (which is non existent in the UK) and SUN for the bones and health. Hey presto!


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

SABrits said:


> Move on to another forum- there is an Expat forum in Ireland. You are an expat in Ireland - but a guest.
> 
> The people who are expats in SA are guests and are treated as such and have far more manners in 'your' country. Maybe you could give them the same back!


I assume this is aimed at me?
apart from my retaliation to luna the boxer (which we have sorted out as Adults in private)
Kindly show where I have been personal irrespective of the insults levelled at me?
I only post refferable, fact, what I get back is personal, 


Yes, I do know Johannesburg well, I also know Durban well.
I was extensively involved in Blockwatch and then community Policing Forum.
I also volunteered at crisis centres, Life Line and Tape aids for the blind, I painted rphanages and taught illiterate adults.
In South Africa
all this when most of you, by the maturity of your posts were probably still in nappies.
hallelujah,
Thats not to prove that I am suuuch a great guy, its merely to point out that in terms of "giving something" I've paid my dues.

so yes, SA has a security problem but irishlout, who is going to manage it?
who is managing it and what are they doing about it?

Arnaud? Midrand had a shopper shot and killed at Carlswald Shopping Centre on Tuesday, you ever shop there? off New road? there's a whole bunch of other nasties going on, in Midrand but I really dont want to post horror stories,

You dont like negative feedback?actual honest negative feedback?
go to goodnewssouthafrica, they only post good news stories,
in the interrim,you BS about how safe Jhbg is, I WILL post and argue.
Because its not.
And nothing changes except by media pressure

The original question has still not been answered, can Jenny go for walks in Johannesburg SA as she did in the UK?


----------



## chinasing (Mar 19, 2009)

*What is the real Reason?*

As I continue to read this forum on a daily basis I am rather disturbed by the lack of compassion and the need to extend positive feedback from certain individuals and they know who they are as they feel the need to address every single post with doom and gloom. In any country there will always be some undesirable aspect to it, but should we focus on that constantly? Because said persons are seeped with so much bitterness and negativity, I bet you can't even name 5 good things about S.A in fact why do we try this little social experiment, shall we? Please indulge me here if 5 is too far fetched for you, and I'm sure it is, you can even name one think just to get you off the hook.
But for these individuals to to spend so much time focused on a country they don't even live in anymore, is beyond me. What's wrong you dont have anything nasty to say about the country you're residing in now? What is the real reason here, you claim it's not racial, you claim that you paid your dues which is quite funny to me, as i thought our main reason for being here in this world was to help one another, how you equate that to paying your dues is beyond me but just another example of how small minded you really are. FYI I too have done a lot of work to help those in need but why do I need to post that on here? I have nothing to prove but only one thing, and that's to provide an unbiased opinion in the hopes of being a help but not a cyber world bully.
So please again what is your real motivation here for all the posts that are nothing short of a glorified horror story, if you don't have a genuine answer to a sincere question no need for these outrageous claims or sources ...and fyi Wikipedia is not a credible source....since you're online all the time google it.
To those looking for answers at the end of the day it all boils down to research, credible resources and good old common sense, and there is nothing to fear but the fear itself and the opinions of small and shallow minded people with a chip on their shoulder...


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Chinasing
Its People, Its Weather, Its Scenery and landscape, Its ability to feed 80% of Africa and supply Electrical power to 75% of Africa, Its Wealth Of resources.
and the seventh one, its infrastructure compared to other Countries Sub Sahara.
If I think about it I could come up with probably twenty more good things about SA.
Now if we were discussing SA which my posts of Doom and gloom are'nt kindly understand once more,I am not knocking its people or the country

If I were I would ask why the country is now a net importer of Food, has an electrical power problem,has dropped its standards of living/health/life expantcy and most importantly, its justice system.

There are many threads on here that I do not post on, there are even more that I do not re-act to.
Stevans post above is a prime example, he is happy in SA disagrees with me, yet the post is a balance, there are no personal attacks in it,it is realistic etc.

Have a look at what I posted against,
Johannesburg is safe,you can do whatever you did in the UK here as well, those who criticise are either over the top, racists,hate the country,unhappy in their "new" homes,unable to settle in, too old,too stupid...etc
You will be ok if you stay away from dangerous areas,crime happens everywhere in the world,
(in SA the scary one finds you at home or in your driveway)

Get my drift?
I will react to BS, if I am wrong about a point, prove me wrong, not with words or insults, with facts.
And no, I do not use Wiki as a source, others do Arnauds post on emigration here and my response is a case in point.

You ask what my reason is? its twofold.
People come on here to find out what SA is like, I want them to go to SA, SA needs them if its too survive but I want them to go fully informed and aware.
It is an embarrassment when people read about crime in SA,it reflects badly on all South Africans, Therouxs over the top TV program on SA and jhbg aired here on National TV on Tuesday night,
All week I had twenty questions.
Not all Nigerians are 419 scammers either.

Secondly,The situation in SA has to be improved, the Crime and Justice,the education and health Systems, the housing and social welfare etc..
Democracy came to SA not because of war or bombs or bullets, it came because of media exposure.
And its the only thing the Ruling Govt has to fear.
And the only thing that will force them to sort out the ills of SA, to stop corruption and greed, to stop wasting money, is to be held up to the spotlight.
and every small voice like mine, helps towards that.
I dont want a change of Govt, I want he Govt to change, to do what they promised when Nelson came out.

So Chinasing and Irishlout et al, SA needs you and I am grateful that you have gone there,that you take the risks that I am not prepared to expose my almost teenage daughter to.
If you did'nt go there, SA would be worse off.
But dont try and BS that its all safe and you dont have to take care.
Because thats when you drop your vigilance and end up in a newspaper in Ireland or Germany or Holland as another victim.
r someone who believed you does.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

chinasing said:


> As I continue to read this forum on a daily basis I am rather disturbed by the lack of compassion and the need to extend positive feedback from certain individuals and they know who they are as they feel the need to address every single post with doom and gloom. In any country there will always be some undesirable aspect to it, but should we focus on that constantly? *Because said persons are seeped with so much bitterness and negativity*, I bet you can't even name 5 good things about S.A in fact why do we try this little social experiment, shall we? *Please indulge me here if 5 is too far fetched for you*, *and I'm sure it is*, you can even name one think just to get you off the hook.
> But for these individuals to to spend so much time focused on a country they don't even live in anymore, is beyond me. *What's wrong you dont have anything nasty to say about the country you're residing in now?* What is the real reason here, you claim it's not racial, you claim that you paid your dues which is quite funny to me, *as i thought our main reason for being here in this world was to help one another, *how you equate that to paying your dues is beyond me *but just another example of how small minded you really are*. FYI I too have done a lot of work to help those in need but why do I need to post that on here? I have nothing to prove but only one thing, and *that's to provide an unbiased opinion in the hopes of being a help but not a cyber world bully*.
> So please again what is your real motivation here for all the posts that are *nothing short of a glorified horror story*, if you don't have a genuine answer to a sincere question no need for these outrageous claims or sources ...and fyi Wikipedia is not a credible source....*since you're online all the time google *it.
> To those looking for answers at the end of the day it all boils down to research, credible resources and good old common sense, and there is nothing to fear but the fear itself *and the opinions of small and shallow minded people with a chip on their shoulder.*..


Chinasing, your comments on the insults I've outlined in bold?


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Jenny the safest place is called Thornhill estate at Modderfontein,about 20 minutes from Bruma.
> The biggest threat is not the crime but in your not recognising when you are doing something "silly".
> Your husbands Company need to get someone from a risk assesment Company to brief you(and no, I dont know who to recommend) and to also check out your rented accomodation iro
> security.
> ...


For those who are too lazy to read and just post without thinking, this was my response to the original question on this thread.
Horror story? doom mongering? 50 year old scrapbook? Racism? or good advice?


----------



## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Daxk, this is what Iread from you in the British Expat Forum :



> "Vette, I had to chip in here.
> I'm always amused when people say that if you take care and avoid the bad areas you will be allright.(not what you are saying but implying I think about the Cape Flats)
> The main fear in SA I get from my friends and aquintances is not that they might be mugged if they went for a walk in the park or on a beach somewhere, its that Crime comes and finds you in your home or in your driveway.
> Sorry,dont want to sidetrack this., just an observation"


You told us you know very well Durban and Joburg.
It seems you are also an expert in Cape Town stories.
What did you do for your country ? You are bashing it behind a screen, I think this is a childish attitude. On several forums your are talking doom and gloom about South Africa. May be you don't like your (undesired ?) new country. May be the weather, the lack of activities...
You told us you are an old guy, you attitude is strange as it refers to young people homesick abroad.

You want to scare anybody willing to visit South Africa. What is your goal ? Are you paid for that ? If not, sorry but you are an idiot !
Or may be, as you had to leave the country, then you want to see it collapsing. This is a jingoist attitude, but understandable.


----------



## Irish Lout (Aug 2, 2009)

Daxk, I too have to wonder what your real motivation is...? 

Any time a thread starts from someone looking for some advice on SA youre always one of the first in there to dredge up a few horror stories from your vast vaults of experience and try to scare people off - Ive actually read threads where the person ends up turning down the opportunity to move here based on what they read - mainly yours and Halos negative posts (Halo, btw who doesnt have an original thought in his head other than to post brief one liners and sucking up to your previous posts - quite sad really).

You talk about having opinions - but in your case its not an opinion, you never let it go until the other person becomes bored and moves on and until you have well and truly tried to paint this country in such a bad light that it puts people off even coming down to see from themselves. Why are you scared? bitter?, or annoyed? that people might actually like this place and over 50 years the country has actually changed?

You accuse Chinasing of insulting you - boy, what a thin skin you must have - Chinasing was actually quite polite and trying to be reasonable - you see enemies in every corner.

Please - we are tired of all your war stories and your little black "statistics" notepad and scrapbook, why dont you let some other people post their opinions and show them the respect you yourself are demanding.

Maybe you need to take up a new hobby?


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Arnaud, You obviously have a comprehension problem,I assume English is not your first language.
my post to Vette was in a context of moving to CT and apart from the fact that I used to spend one wek a month in CT on business, as its many years ago I dont tend to comment much about current status of living in the Cape.

Vette obviously understood the context of the post as this was his reply"
"Hi Daxk,
Sure, I know exactly what you mean, and I know that crime and violence will search you out.
Being in the 'safer' areas, don't give you safety, as some of the bad guys will follow you to your nice house and work out your routine.
After a few days of establishing your routine, they will plan the ambush, and there ain't much you can do about it.
Give the keys over, empty your pockets, give over the watch, rings, everything, and try to keep the attackers as peaceful as possible by giving them everything they can see.
Perhaps they wont shoot you then, perhaps.
I know, it is part of SA. and it isn't going to change any time soon.
Perhaps to carry a firearm, is a good idea, or a bad idea, in so much they could kill you with your own gun.
If you do carry, then you really have to be prepared to use it, because if you draw, and hesitate, then you may have lost.
It is a sad fact of CT that gun society values life so cheaply.

Any way, onto the brighter things."

as to your comments, are you sure you are'nt being paid to try and minimise the Crime in Jhbg?
That would be a far more likely scenario.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Irishlout,Just a pity that the Horror Stories I dredge up happen to be fact.
Thats your problem, you obviously did'nt do enough research,and now someones raining on your parade.
I happen to report on fact, you dont, you are desparately trying to conceal reality.
Told you, I dont care wether you stay or go, I prefer it if you stay.
I hope you make it through whatever period you spend in SA safely,there is a strong possibility you will.
But its your responsibility, and if (god Forbid) something should go wrong, its also your responsibility for exposing others to danger.
As to your and others insults, they dont affect me, I stopped worrying about what others thought of me a long time ago.
Its just a pity as all it shows is a lack of manners and sometimes intelligence.
As I challenged SABrit, so do I you.
prove me wrong.
Until then.


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

And I am behind that one. This is not a site to vent your statistics. South Africa has a very bright future, like many countries. We are a friendly nation who opens doors to guests in our country, whose children have a broader understanding and are very open minded to all races. This is something which they can take with them anywhere in the world. And the day I retire, South Africa will be a choice in that, for all the good reasons.

I help people everyday relocate to all parts of the world, and the one consistency is, be open minded to your new culture and be aware. Talk to your neighbours, and visit expat sites. Presently, anyone going to SA, I would not recommend to this site, due to the negativity here. Their companies need them to go, to transfer knowledge. This they do if their families are willing and safe. Here they would learn the opposite, and the company suffers, which means economy suffers as well. Which ultimately means SA does not benefit!


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

SABrit,is part of your business sourcing people for SA Companies?
If so,then you have a vested interest in only offering good news.


----------



## Irish Lout (Aug 2, 2009)

Daxk, I find it disapointing that you resort to insulting someones use of English, and in fact your subsequent posts are themselves littered with spelling errors. Racist, or perhaps just hypocritical..?

In previous posts you were also complaining about people "insulting" you, something you also seem to be pretty quick and handy at yourself.

You also try to boil everything down to "statistics" as if these justify and backup your experiences. Statistics, as we all know can be interpretated any way you want - from the source you chose to take them from to how you view them, but as we all know " there are 3 kind of lies - lies, damned lies and statistics".

I dont spend my time researching SA statistics, I base my outlook on how I experience every day life here in Johannesburg and from my interactions with friends here, listening to their experiences. Not something you can do stuck 20,000km away sipping coffee in some remote village of Ireland.

I also find it downright cowardly and despicable you try to play on fear and use my family against me " But its your responsibility, and if (god Forbid) something should go wrong, its also your responsibility for exposing others to danger'

Do you really think I would bring my family down here if we hadnt done the research and felt comfortable to do so. The fact my wife was happy to come here and is enjoying life in Johannesburg with my 3 year old daughter simply proves that people can have a normal life here - go search a statistic for that.

One last point - SA brits says he is relocating people to "all parts of the world" so why would he have a vested interest in promoting SA above other countries?

Daxk, every bit of drivel you post on here simply undermines your evaporating credibility and exposes you as the hypocritical, scare mongering bully that you are. 

SA is not the safest place in the world - noone on heres saying that, but nor is it the worst as you try to make it out to be. With common sense, being aware and practical, living in the right areas, it can be managed and you can carve out quite a good lifestyle here. Perhaps a better lifestyle than you seem to be living as your only interest in life seems to be scaring people on these forums...??


----------



## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Daxk, english is not my mother tongue indeed. I will try to do my best to avoid any confusion.

Daxk, seriously, I think you have a problem :
South Africa xenophobic attacks continue. | 6000 miles from civilisation...
Want to know what South Africa is really like? | 6000 miles from civilisation...
Advice sought - finding work etc in JHB area : British Expat Discussion Forum
returning home but what about my loose ends? : British Expat Discussion Forum


> Somebody here said that if you were burning bridges you needed to be a strong swimmer.
> i'm a bit curious as to how a fellow Saffa could saddle you with 12k debt ,depart and you dont post his pic all over facebook youtube etc.
> 
> Do whatever you want, but I dont think SA is going to have a future for you unless your name happens to be either isixhosa or isizulu
> ...


I think you are racist, according to these posts. But it is your right yo be racist, I won't blame you on that. But please get a life in Ireland, do whatever you can do for this country and let South Africa be.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Irishlout, the word is comprehension.
Arnaud keeps on misunderstanding either by design or because English may not be his/her first Language.
Insulting? I was pointing out that the insults(including those you hand out so readily) are against the rules of this and most other forums.
Statistics? not at all,the statistics actually favour the fact that you wil probably not experience any violent crime in SA.
If however you choose to call the SAPS Crime statistics into doubt, I would agree with you, but only because i think they are under-reported.
And I base my views on my personal experiences as well as on personal interaction I have on almost a daily basis with my Jhbg Office as well as Family.
Obviously, I also read news24,iol.co.za, Sunday Times print edition, M&G, Financial Mail and I love Hayibu and Noseweek..

You too seem to have a credibility problem, I do not wish your family ill.
I am responsible for my childs safety, so are you for yours.
I am reminding you of the fact.
SABrit is big enough to answer for him/herself.

My credibility is not in question, unlike you,I'm merely reporting fact (Again)
I am not trying to sell a dream merely commenting on reality.

As to my time, its mine, to do with as I see fit, yes, I chose a quiet little village as had I stayed in SA I would now be living in Dullstroom and Ballito or some other quiet little vilage near to an Airport.
Bored?? not at all, I just wish the internet had been around when I was young,its the greatest asset to research ever.

Now really,this is going around in circles, I live in a similar house to the one I own in SA,on the corner of a farm, 10 minutes from a very good little school for my daughter, I have a very wide friendship base, lots of hobbies, two sweet little businesses that help keep my hand in, why should I bother scaring people when its in my interest that they go to SA and take up the positions for which the Govt and AA are unable to fill.

think about it, without the young foreigners coming in, SA will collapse.

What I do ask is that they go with open eyes, as I did when researched Oz,the UK, the States and Ireland as places for me to raise a daughter and retire to.
Glad I chose Ireland.


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Arnaud, you are entitled to your opinion.
Btw, what race am I?


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Daxk, english is not my mother tongue indeed. I will try to do my best to avoid any confusion.
> 
> Daxk, seriously, I think you have a problem :
> South Africa xenophobic attacks continue. | 6000 miles from civilisation...
> ...


Hell Arnaud, there are a lot more posts than that.
yes,6k did tear me a new one on his Blog, but my point remains, shock Horror,front page news when they burnt that poor Mocambican
Front pages all over the World.
They burn and stone people often in the locations, sometimes for being "Witches" sometimes because they caught them thieving, and the total for Xenophobia was two days "Normal" at 50 per day.
where was the fuss about that?

Aids is the most easily preventable disease, "Somebody " has to pay for free anti-retrovirals.
Yes, I am still a tax payer in SA, therefore I have a right to comment on how tax money is spent.
If the anti-retrovirals keeps someone as a productive member of society, I'm all for it, but if it prolongs the agony, if it keeps children out of school to look after sick parents,if it bankrupts the health system ,then feel there is a time for Hospice.

AS to the other two, I cant access them, the lass in the one you have quoted was going to be affected by Affirmative Action if I recall.
Affirmative Action was a very good way of redressing some of the injustices of the past.
I do not however consider someone who has qualified with the same Degree as everyone else, or who has grown up in private chools with wealthy Parents as being "disadvantaged"

I think 15 years down the road, AA needs to be re-visited,
As to your accusations of racism, what do think of this amendment to the SA Constitution? 

Section 9
"Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair."

As to my interest in SA, the land of my birth, where my Mother, siblings, lots of neices and nephews still live,
A Country I happen to love, thats my interest bud,its economics,its politics its future.
You dont have the right to dictate.


----------



## chinasing (Mar 19, 2009)

*The Real issues*

People people please enough already, I take full responsibility for participating in this on going war of words and I apologise. What is the real reason that we come to this site on a daily basis, is it to bash one another or to provide help and support to those looking for it. True there has been a lot of negativity going back and forth by certain individuals, but can we learn to agree to disagree. It is my hope that we can build up this great nation South Africa to become a country that has a reputation for it's wonderful economy, friendly people, and a great place to live and thrive. 
Every country has it's good and bad to it but can we move forward and start seeing what could be and I understand that there is always 3 sides to any story and we have already heard two of them, now all that is left is the truth and can we hear that side for a change, unbiased truth.
I moved to S.A 8 years ago and reside in Sandton, and have never had a first hand experience of any violent crime, not one break in, nor have any of my family and friends yet when I lived in the U.S. I was mugged, car broken into, house vandalised. But does that mean since nothing happened to me or anyone I know that it's not happening to someone else? Of course not but at the end of the day it's all about using sound judgement, listening to the locals and not being consumed by fear!!!
Please for the last time can we at least respect one another and have a sense of compassion to want to help and not scare off people from so many wonderful opportunities in this great nation...thank you..


----------



## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

Just go there and rent a place for a while, then look were you really want to live. We did this and found our nice house.
Please contact em if you want to know more.
Regards,
Annemiek

thatch22


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> Just go there and rent a place for a while, then look were you really want to live. We did this and found our nice house.
> Please contact em if you want to know more.
> Regards,
> Annemiek
> ...


What made you move? :confused2:


----------



## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

Halo said:


> What made you move? :confused2:


work of my husband


----------



## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

Daxk said:


> SABrit,is part of your business sourcing people for SA Companies?
> If so,then you have a vested interest in only offering good news.


Actually no. Once again, you have the ability or reading and not understanding what was said. I relocate people. I work with a number of international blue chip companies, moving their executives into the countries which they need to go. That covers all of EMEA. I have no vested interest in the companies. I organise their packing, their travel, finding homes in their new locations. 
So if their cimpany has defined SA as a region, then that is what I do - move them there. And let them know the good side - as I would with any other country!


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

OK, Thanks.
There have been one or two posters on here who were sourcing Foreign Staff for SA.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> work of my husband


Hope it all works out... Good luck


----------



## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

Halo said:


> Hope it all works out... Good luck


Thanks. It is working out already for a couple of years!

Greeting
Annemieke


----------

