# Can you trade currencies in France as an American retiree on a VLS-TS visa?



## cardinale

If granted a VLS-TS long stay visa, I plan to move to France later this year. I'm a retiree who would qualify based on passive income.

My question is: can I day trade the forex market while in France on this visa? My forex broker is US-based (US citizens can't open forex accounts with European brokers because of strict reporting and regulatory requirements) and presumably would let me keep trading while resident in France. Net gains are taxed as ordinary income by the IRS.

Looking at previous posts from US stock traders, it appears that France does not allow stock day trading if you are a retiree on a long-stay visa, because it's considered work? Does that also apply to forex? So no trading at all is allowed? 

Bevdeforges posted in another thread a document about French tax on financial transactions but it appears to cover equities, not currencies.

I would love to ask a CPA or other tax professional but haven't identified anyone with the requisite specific knowledge of French visas + forex trading. If anyone knows of such a resource, please let me know.

Thanks


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## Crabtree

Your best bet would e ask at your local tax office in France They are always up for helping people as long as you are up front with them


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## 255

@cardinale -- I agree with @Crabtree and I do not know the specific answer to your question, but in general, European countries generally consider "day trading" of any kind as work versus investing and tax it as such.

I don't know the scale of your FX operation, but you may consider trading in an entity, that way you'd be able to deduct all your trading expenses. Of course that would necessitate getting a visa with work privileges, like maybe one of the Passeport Talent visas/resident permits: International talents | France-Visas.gouv.fr (these are also good up to four years.) Cheers, 255

P.S. You didn't ask, but on the U.S. side, you have the option to have your FX trading treated as 1256 contracts, giving you a 60/40 split (long term/short term capital gains) vice the normal 988 tax treatment.


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## Bevdeforges

Just a quick note - there are several categories of visa that are VLS-TS visas. All that means is that your visa, once validated on arrival serves as your "titre de séjour" (i.e. residence permit) for your first year in France. This includes the "visiteur" visa (which is, I presume, what you have as you mentioned being a retiree) which does not allow you to work. Another VLS-TS visa is the "vie privée et familiale" (i.e. the visa for foreigners moving to France to join spouses or other close family) which do include working privileges.

I don't know enough about how forex trading works to advise on the taxation of it - either in the US or in France. But for French tax questions it's often best to go directly to the source - i.e. the local tax office.


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## jweihl

I have no idea if the French authorities would use similar reasoning, but to me a salient fact would be if you're trading foreign currencies as an investment for yourself, or whether you're trading on behalf of clients/others. In the latter case, you're providing a service, that theoretically a french firm or person could provide. I'd think that clearly that would count as work. On the other hand, if you're trading solely on your own behalf, that (to me) isn't qualitatively different than buying or selling anything else as an investment. And investing is clearly something that retirees and other private individuals would do.


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## cardinale

jweihl said:


> I have no idea if the French authorities would use similar reasoning, but to me a salient fact would be if you're trading foreign currencies as an investment for yourself, or whether you're trading on behalf of clients/others. In the latter case, you're providing a service, that theoretically a french firm or person could provide. I'd think that clearly that would count as work. On the other hand, if you're trading solely on your own behalf, that (to me) isn't qualitatively different than buying or selling anything else as an investment. And investing is clearly something that retirees and other private individuals would do.


jweihl, that's initially what I thought, too--that I could do this simply for myself, akin to managing investments, and report the income on French tax returns. However, to my surprise, apparently the French tax authorities count day trading as "work". They do not have a "digital nomad" visa, either. As a condition of being granted the visiteur visa, apparently you have to sign an affidavit swearing that you will not work while in France. I'm not sure where exactly the line is drawn between managing investments (which would be allowed) and day trading, but I clearly fall into the latter category. Because I could not declare the income in France and pay taxes on it while on the visiteur visa, I'd be living with the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head until the tax authorities found out. Then, I'd be in big trouble and it wouldn't surprise me if they would simply kick me out.

The better route apparently would be to apply for the Talent visa or, since I don't have family to bring over, the Profession Libérale visa which is for the self-employed.

Self employed person or liberal activity

2, my trading is not yet large-scale enough to justify setting up for professional trader status to get the 60/40 tax treatment, but that's my goal. Yet another reason to get the appropriate visa allowing work so that all of the tax reporting is correct.


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## 255

@cardinale -- The The Autorité des Marchés Financiers (AMF) is the regulating body for currency trading in France. I know they have some specific rules and also license platform providers. One rule I know is that stops must be placed automatically when entering a position (I know a lot of traders do this routinely, as well as placing targets, but in France, it's required.) It might be worth your while to do a search on their website for currency trading: Homepage | AMF . Cheers, 255


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## cardinale

255 said:


> @cardinale -- The The Autorité des Marchés Financiers (AMF) is the regulating body for currency trading in France. I know they have some specific rules and also license platform providers. One rule I know is that stops must be placed automatically when entering a position (I know a lot of traders do this routinely, as well as placing targets, but in France, it's required.) It might be worth your while to do a search on their website for currency trading: Homepage | AMF . Cheers, 255


255, thanks for the link to the AMF.  v


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