# Best way to learn Spanish



## cowichangang

Can anyone tell me from their own experience, the best program for learning spanish. We want to be as fluent as possible before we move. I realize that nothing beats actually being there, but I am talking about courses like Rosseta Stone, Rocket Languages etc. I don't want to pay hundreds if I don't need to. I want one that I can download to my computer, not the paper book type. Is there a program I should avoid?. Is one better than another etc etc, Mucho Gracias


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## Longford

I doubt you will successfully accomplish fluency before you arrive in Mexico, particularly not if you're at the beginner or earlier stages of learning. I traveled to Mexico, San Miguel de Allende, to learn Spanish as part of a "total immersion" course and, though excruciating tough for me, it turned-out to be the best choice I could have made. I lived with a family which did not speak English. I had to learn to communicate. It probably took me 3 years living in Mexico to become totally comfortable with my language skills. I completed 3 months of intensive training, 8.5 hours daily in structured classes and 2 hours additional with a private tutor at home. Tough. I think set-out and traveled for 3 months by second class busses visiting parts of Mexico off the beaten path. I was forced to work hard to learn and use what I was taught. I went home, came back shortly thereafter and I think it took another 2 years or so before I began to relax and became more fluent. Fluency comes at different times for different people. That depends upon so many variables. If you can study in local classes before relocating to begin to understand some few basic sentences/words than you'll have a 'leg up' when you arrive. But if I were you I'd probably wait until I moved to Mexico to then enroll in regular study and then have a tutor a couple of times a week for the first year. I have no confidence in any of the online or CD language programs.


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## MaidenScotland

cowichangang said:


> Can anyone tell me from their own experience, the best program for learning spanish. We want to be as fluent as possible before we move. I realize that nothing beats actually being there, but I am talking about courses like Rosseta Stone, Rocket Languages etc. I don't want to pay hundreds if I don't need to. I want one that I can download to my computer, not the paper book type. Is there a program I should avoid?. Is one better than another etc etc, Mucho Gracias




Hi

I have bought Rosetta Stone for Spanish Spanish but in all honesty I do not like it, Michael Thomas cds are quite good for getting you started and this is a nice free programme. duolingo.com


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## cuylers5746

*Learning a second language*



cowichangang said:


> Can anyone tell me from their own experience, the best program for learning spanish. We want to be as fluent as possible before we move. I realize that nothing beats actually being there, but I am talking about courses like Rosseta Stone, Rocket Languages etc. I don't want to pay hundreds if I don't need to. I want one that I can download to my computer, not the paper book type. Is there a program I should avoid?. Is one better than another etc etc, Mucho Gracias


Hi Cowichangang;

Just a couple of other comments to maybe help you understand and help you with your learning. The two previous posts have all the information you really need to start learning Spanish well.

I was a professional Technical Trainer for six years in Technical Studies for Technicians and Engineers - not Languages. But, I learned that we as adults learn differently, in fact we're taught to tell you how to best take advantage of learning at your age.

We as adults seem not as able to cram in so much information and assimulate it as young school age kids. So, we as adults learn better by learning in layers. Meaning like pealing an onion, start now get a book from the library or go to a book store and buy the tapes, listed by the previous poster. Start out with the subject "Spanish" in general terms.

Put, it down come back a day or two later and learn some more. Keep doing this until you get to Mexico. Then I'd have an acquaintence or friend access your skills. If they think you have enough begining knowledge that taking an indepth class for a couple of weeks would help - well then by all means take it. If not keep pealing the onion away by more studies and learning in interactions in the markets, etc. until you do get to that point where you have enough knowledge that you hang hang a whole lot more information onto what you've learned.

Take note of your every day speaking in English. Jog down the 30 most frequently used verbs. Then look them up in a Spanish book or the tapes listed by the previous poster and and all their tenses and starting writing and speaking them in sentences you might use NOB = North of the Border. By the time you get to Mexico you will quickly pick up nouns to hang onto those verbs as you go.

Look for friends in your new town in Mexico that speak Spanish slowly. I Learned more Spanish from mi suegra = Mother-in-Law, that from my native speaking Berlitz Language Instructor = my wife at the time. My Mother-in-Law spoke very distinctly and slowly.

Maybe some day a year or so out your progressed enough to take a two week total emersion course. Or, like the previous poster said, go take a trip solo on second class busses some where - that's about the equivalent of those expensive total emersion courses, but a whole lot cheaper. I make no judgement on what might be more beneficial to you in your particular case.

Yea, forget about trying to be fluent over night - never going to happen - and doesn't need to happen.

Cuyler


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## Souper

I have the Visual Link and like it. Here is the site Learn Spanish with Free Online Lessons
Sign up at the site with your email, you will get email offers for the discounted program.
I think it can bring you a long way to learning Spanish, as you know it won't do it all.

It is easy and fun, I like the games to cement some of the words.
A friend said he thought Rosetta Stone was great, as you want to, he did it before he went to Mexico.

I wish I could say I'm fluent, I've done a home stay in Guanajuato, several sessions of the Warren Hardy in San Miguel, but I still struggle.


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## sunnyvmx

I also have the Visual Links computer course and highly recommend it. It teaches in complete sentences with different games that help to cement what you have memorized in verbal and written exercises. It truly gave me a great start when I moved here five years ago. I'm not fluent and I shall never be, but I can travel all over Mexico and shop in town without the fear that I will be lost or not understood.


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## Dray2

I have used many programs and I'll say that Rosetta Stone is way over priced. The best thing I have run into is a site on the internet called Livemocha. It's free and in my opinion is absolutely the best . If you sign up for the course search out people from Mexico to help you review your lessons. If you have a webcam you can also connect with them and practice speaking. If you choose to you can pay for a professional tutor although I don't think it's necessary. Also, you in turn can help people learning the English language.

www livemocha com


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## sparks

Here's a couple online courses. Destinos was used at our local college and was also in the public library. Probably find other programs in the library to try before you buy

BBC - Learn Spanish with free online lessons

Resource: Destinos: An Introduction to Spanish

I also liked Pimsleur and found it in the library

Learn Spanish as Second Language - The Pimsleur Method


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## sparks

My problem with livemoca was all the requests to check other peoples "homework". As an English speaker you'll be a big target.


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## Dray2

I made a habit of only accepting people from Mexico as my friends. That cut way down on the amount of requests to help review peoples lessons. I really appreciate all the dedicated people that are always there to help me so I don't mind helping others. Now I only get about two or three requests a day. Some days I don't get any. Also, if you don't have a large number of friends will help. I only have about 60. I also go to my friends list and delete people that have not been active for 4 to 6 months.


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## AlanMexicali

I learnt to speak Spanish from both my ex wife and current wife but did learn many thing on my own over the 32 years of dealing with non English speaking Mexicans.

The most noticable thing was when I only listened to Spanish radio in my car many years ago. Also I watched Spanish televsion a lot. It came one day I did not need to translate from English to Spanish anymore and the words in Spanish became clear and distinct, not run together and also the context became distinct then.

Another thing I did for about a decade was have a pen and paper and dictionary with me when in Mexico. I would write down words I saw on signs and words I didn´t know when talking to someone, also on the radio and TV. If I write it down and look it up I ususally will remember it more so if I just ask someone what it means, but do that also.

I first learnt the Spanish numbers and the Spanish alphabet from my ex wife who did not speak any English, which today makes me able to pronounce words in Spanish even if I don´t know their meaning. I can read the newspaper or other things and follow very well. I can follow conversations very well even if it is a motor mouth speaking. I contribute this to the years of listening to Spanish radio and TV first and foremost. My constant asking the meaning of nouns has me remembering most Spanish words for almost anything out there.

Verb conjugations are what I have been working on for the last few years and read books that concentrate on this. My latest is 501 Spanish Verbs, an excelent book.


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## Kennia Burgueno

*Solexico*



cowichangang said:


> Can anyone tell me from their own experience, the best program for learning spanish. We want to be as fluent as possible before we move. I realize that nothing beats actually being there, but I am talking about courses like Rosseta Stone, Rocket Languages etc. I don't want to pay hundreds if I don't need to. I want one that I can download to my computer, not the paper book type. Is there a program I should avoid?. Is one better than another etc etc, Mucho Gracias


Dear Cowichangang, my name is Kennia and I work in a Spanish school in Mexico named Solexico. I have seen very good results with our immersion programs combines with lodging with our mexican families. There is nothing better then to learn the language in a Spanish speaking country. We have schools in Puerto Vallarta, Oaxaca, Playa del Carmen and Guanajuato.
It’s worth giving it a look: www . solexico . com


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## DNP

cowichangang said:


> Can anyone tell me from their own experience, the best program for learning spanish. We want to be as fluent as possible before we move. I realize that nothing beats actually being there, but I am talking about courses like Rosseta Stone, Rocket Languages etc. I don't want to pay hundreds if I don't need to. I want one that I can download to my computer, not the paper book type. Is there a program I should avoid?. Is one better than another etc etc, Mucho Gracias


There lots of programs you can find, and many sound quite good.

What's important to keep in mind is to find a program that's right for you. What's right for me may not be right for you, and vice versa.None of them is a perfect fit either.


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## DNP

DNP said:


> There lots of programs you can find, and many sound quite good.
> 
> What's important to keep in mind is to find a program that's right for you. What's right for me may not be right for you, and vice versa.None of them is a perfect fit either.


There are lots of programs you can find on the Internet....

(sorry about that)


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## tepetapan

Kennia Burgueno said:


> Dear Cowichangang, my name is Kennia and I work in a Spanish school in Mexico named Solexico. I have seen very good results with our immersion programs combines with lodging with our mexican families. There is nothing better then to learn the language in a Spanish speaking country. We have schools in Puerto Vallarta, Oaxaca, Playa del Carmen and Guanajuato.
> It’s worth giving it a look: www . solexico . com


 I agree, immersion is the best way to learn. I would do this as a 3 step program. 1st step is to play around on the internet programs to learn some basic words and structure. Moving to Mexico and living here for 3 months at least would be step 2. This will help you get your mind and ears tuned. Go out shopping, walks in the park and just in public. Spend time listening, trying to grasp words and thoughts being expressed. The 3rd step would be a 2 or 3 week immersion school. You know some words, you can buy mangos at the market and you can order a cheeseburger at a local restaurant. This is where you put things together to make yourself free and independent. Husband and wife should be separated, no cheating. 
After a few weeks of school, get back on the street and USE what you have learned . hanging out with gringos will set you back to step 1, many have no desire to really learn Spanish except by default.


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## jjroth2

Rosetta Stone has significantly reduced its pricing. I paid $399 for all five levels that included participation in classrooms and with other students. You learn by interaction with your computer, supplemented by iPhone, iPad and CDs. I'm not sure how effective it will be because I've only reached the end part of Level 2, which, so far, concentrates on reading, writing and grammar. But the classroom activity with insurgents at every level is helpful.

It appears to be a good track to run on, until such time when you must interact with native speakers.


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## jjroth2

jjroth2 said:


> Rosetta Stone has significantly reduced its pricing. I paid $399 for all five levels that included participation in classrooms and with other students. You learn by interaction with your computer, supplemented by iPhone, iPad and CDs. I'm not sure how effective it will be because I've only reached the end part of Level 2, which, so far, concentrates on reading, writing and grammar. But the classroom activity with insurgents at every level is helpful.
> 
> It appears to be a good track to run on, until such time when you must interact with native speakers.


Spellcheck slipped in "insurgents" for "instructors" when I turned my head.


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## mickisue1

jjroth2 said:


> Spellcheck slipped in "insurgents" for "instructors" when I turned my head.


Well, if we learn faster under stress, that particular classroom activity may be a good idea!


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## edgeee

jjroth2 said:


> Spellcheck slipped in "insurgents" for "instructors" when I turned my head.


First time in days this forum made me laugh.
:clap2:


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## Isla Verde

jjroth2 said:


> Rosetta Stone has significantly reduced its pricing. I paid $399 for all five levels that included participation in classrooms and with other students. You learn by interaction with your computer, supplemented by iPhone, iPad and CDs. I'm not sure how effective it will be because I've only reached the end part of Level 2, which, so far, concentrates on reading, writing and grammar. But the classroom activity with insurgents at every level is helpful.
> 
> It appears to be a good track to run on, until such time when you must interact with native speakers.


Speaking as a current English teacher and former Spanish teacher, I find it odd that a language program would start with reading and writing and leave speaking and listening till later. It should be the other way around, in my professional opinion.

However, the classroom activity with "insurgents" sounds intriguing, if not downright revolutionary  !


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## jjroth2

Isla Verde said:


> Speaking as a current English teacher and former Spanish teacher, I find it odd that a language program would start with reading and writing and leave speaking and listening till later. It should be the other way around, in my professional opinion.
> 
> However, the classroom activity with "insurgents" sounds intriguing, if not downright revolutionary  !


Well, I'm glad it happened. It's the first time anyone found something I've posted on this Foum entertaining,


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## edgeee

jjroth2 said:


> Well, I'm glad it happened. It's the first time anyone found something I've posted on this Foum entertaining,


Not true, at least for me.

You are entertaining and passionate and educated and intriguing.
We can disagree about many things, but IMO the similarities still shine through at times. This is why i like forums so much. Different discussions go where ever the crowd takes them.

And somehow we all pick a persona of sorts, in various stages of privacy or openness, we take on some serious issues and so far as i know, no one has ever got punched in the nose.

I'm generally against violence in most cases but sometimes i step on toes when i dance too close to the fire. And as usual, i'm guilty again, so:focus:

I've started to dabble with self taught spanish - this is gonna kill off about half the few brain cells i still have.
The first thing i learned on my own, just by checking out sites and so on, is that i should always vocalize the words in question. Reading it silently is a waste of a good lesson.

And thanks for the listed links, big help.


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## Isla Verde

jjroth2 said:


> Well, I'm glad it happened. It's the first time anyone found something I've posted on this Foum entertaining,


Do these "insurgents" involved in the classroom activity wear historically-accurate military uniforms?


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## Mr. P Mosh

I don't like novelas at all... but they're a good way to pick up words and sounds cuz they overact too much and pronounce things too clear it's easy to learn from there.


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## adamathefrog

Mr. P Mosh said:


> I don't like novelas at all... but they're a good way to pick up words and sounds cuz they overact too much and pronounce things too clear it's easy to learn from there.


I recall many hours of being forced to watch through La Usurpadora. Argh.

I'm pretty sure it helped my brain learn to hear words rather than the "wub wub wub wub" I heard for the first month or two!

adam.


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## almot

I'm cheap - and muy viejo already - so I chose free classes.
Started from website - ilovelanguages - by Tyler Jones. They stopped publishing after Lesson 3, but it's easy to digest. Print and enjoy.

Than BBC mentioned above, the section " Talk Spanish - A video introduction to Spanish" - but their pronunciation is Spain-like, not Mexico-like. Difference is minor, though. 

Than borrowed in library DVD course Standard Deviants Spanish - there are 3 levels. Memorizing is easier when spiced with jokes, emotions etc - and they have a lot of that.

After 1 year of very sporadic and relaxed learning I can now talk a little, ask for directions, and many other things that I need, though not all that I need. Like I said, I'm lazy.

When you're over 55, you will NEVER become fluent in any foreign language. Whatever your learn and memorize, will evaporate after few months of inactivity - when you don't use or hear some phrases or words. You will also temporary forget a lot when under stress or didn't sleep well.


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## mickisue1

almot said:


> I'm cheap - and muy viejo already - so I chose free classes.
> Started from website - ilovelanguages - by Tyler Jones. They stopped publishing after Lesson 3, but it's easy to digest. Print and enjoy.
> 
> Than BBC mentioned above, the section " Talk Spanish - A video introduction to Spanish" - but their pronunciation is Spain-like, not Mexico-like. Difference is minor, though.
> 
> Than borrowed in library DVD course Standard Deviants Spanish - there are 3 levels. Memorizing is easier when spiced with jokes, emotions etc - and they have a lot of that.
> 
> After 1 year of very sporadic and relaxed learning I can now talk a little, ask for directions, and many other things that I need, though not all that I need. Like I said, I'm lazy.
> 
> When you're over 55, you will NEVER become fluent in any foreign language. Whatever your learn and memorize, will evaporate after few months of inactivity - when you don't use or hear some phrases or words. You will also temporary forget a lot when under stress or didn't sleep well.


You just noted a part that improves learning--EMOTION. Those over 55 years old may not learn as fluidly as those under 55 months old. 

But your brain accepts new information much more readily, and hangs on to it more fiercely, when it's accompanied by emotion. Take all that learning that you did--exemplary, by the way!--and use it to have spirited conversation with Spanish speaking friends, talk to a baby, tell your wife how much you appreciate her, and it will become much more embedded in your mind.


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## maesonna

When we learn languages as adults, our optimum learning methods and styles are very diverse and individual, as are our circumstances and motivations. So, if anyone claims “No one can…” or “You can never…“ it is likely that someone else will be able to cite a counterexample that disproves it.


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## Isla Verde

mickisue1 said:


> You just noted a part that improves learning--EMOTION. Those over 55 years old may not learn as fluidly as those under 55 months old.
> 
> But your brain accepts new information much more readily, and hangs on to it more fiercely, when it's accompanied by emotion. Take all that learning that you did--exemplary, by the way!--and use it to have spirited conversation with Spanish speaking friends, talk to a baby, tell your wife how much you appreciate her, and it will become much more embedded in your mind.


Great advice, mickisue. Another factor that helps facilitate language-learning is motivation. My English students are all adults, and the ones who do best are the ones who have a definite purpose in mind when they begin to study with me. For example, one student wanted to improve her spoken English because she had been invited to give a scientific paper in English at an international conference in Vienna. Another one is a museum director, and he is often called upon to greet foreign visitors and give them private tours in English.


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## almot

Motivation, yes. Something that forces you use Spanish - but for many expats their life in Mexico doesn't provide a lot of motivation, until something urgent happens, like a hospital, and then he'll forget most of what he learned - because stress and pain affect the memory, especially short-term memory. 

Even with all the motivation and emotional factors (be it pleasant emotions or not, doesn't matter for learning) - brain at 55+ is not the same. Memory does not retain same well as when you were 25. And there is no more intuitive and natural learning like when you were 14 or younger. Children's brain digests and retains language effortlessly, for them it's a part of life. For adults it's a hard work - that's why it's important to make it look like a play, and preferably with visual aids, not just listening. 

Repetition and practice is the key, not just separate words - entire phrases. Vocabulary evaporates quickly if not intertwined with grammar. Again, practice is a problem for seniors living in ******-towns without much need to talk to locals (or to anybody at all, with all the digital media these days).

I'm not trying to discourage seniors - learning new things helps against early dementia, no kidding. Just don't get your hopes too high. You will talk - a little. And you will understand - less than you can talk.


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## truetamara

I have used a few courses, but my favourite was Visual Link Spanish. I found it easy to follow and I could go at my own pace. I agree with another poster who said to make sure that you say the words out loud. Good luck!


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## Guategringo

I came to latin america 20 years ago and could not speak a word of spanish. I remember I spent over 15 minutes (it seemed like 15 hours) attmepting to order a pizza over the phone. I finally had to hang up and walk the 10 blocks to order it in person using sign language!!!! 

I never took any formal language classes but I learned from my office employees and girlfriends until I married and learned even more from my wife and her family. However, I found the television to be very important. I would watch CNN for a half hour in English and then a 1/2 hour in Spanish and get the context because I had already heard the same news in English. Of course not all the news is the same but the important stories are telecast in both languages. Also, I found that newscasters have the best and clearest pronunciation. 

I also used to watch cartoon network to learn words in spanish since they were subtitled at the time and not dubbed in in spanish.... of course translators are notorious for making HUGE mistakes in translation, so be careful there

Hope that helps.


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## AlanMexicali

Guategringo said:


> I came to latin america 20 years ago and could not speak a word of spanish. I remember I spent over 15 minutes (it seemed like 15 hours) attmepting to order a pizza over the phone. I finally had to hang up and walk the 10 blocks to order it in person using sign language!!!!
> 
> I never took any formal language classes but I learned from my office employees and girlfriends until I married and learned even more from my wife and her family. However, I found the television to be very important. I would watch CNN for a half hour in English and then a 1/2 hour in Spanish and get the context because I had already heard the same news in English. Of course not all the news is the same but the important stories are telecast in both languages. Also, I found that newscasters have the best and clearest pronunciation.
> 
> I also used to watch cartoon network to learn words in spanish since they were subtitled at the time and not dubbed in in spanish.... of course translators are notorious for making HUGE mistakes in translation, so be careful there
> 
> Hope that helps.


I was watching the movie "The Golden Witch" - "El Bruja Dorada" which was dubbed in Spanish and had Spanish subtitles at the same time. The dubbing and subtltles sometimes used different words. My wife explained that when it is subtitled they use expressions and words that are more common to express what is being said and also they censor it to make it more family friendly plus I think use words to fit the mouthing on screen. I don´t believe they are mistakes. It is done on purpose. Alan


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## circle110

What Alan says is true, but there are also many errors made, some of them hilarious.

My wife watches several US programs in English with Spanish subtitles and we also watch many US movies with audio in the original English and Spanish subtitles. I regularly have to tell her that the subtitles are wrong and are giving a false impression. I do my best to make a quick alternative translation which is tough without talking over some important dialogue that follows. I usually hit the pause button to tell her if it's a DVD. I never cease to be amazed and impressed by those who have developed the skill of simultaneous interpreting!

Like Alan says, they do clean things up quite a bit and because of that a great humorous moment is sometimes lost in translation. In those cases I try to give my wife a more effective translation of the English "grosería".


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## trpt2345

I've been in Mexico for about a year and a half now and I have only really studied in the "escuela de las calles". Radio is great, TV too, newspapers, and just talking to people. My wife is Mexican, lived for 30 years in the states. She teaches English now and taught Spanish in Chicago, go figure. I love it when I am out and about solo and have to speak Spanish. Sometimes people want to practice English with me, so I have had a number of conversations where they other person speaks English and I speak Spanish. "Despacio por favor" is useful. And I say many times "Ustedes tienen mi permiso a reirse a mis errores en Espanol." While I still hit walls in some situations I am a lot more fluent than I was a year ago and expect in another couple of years to be way better. There are hardly any Mexicans who I have run into who are fluent in English, so Spanish is mandatory. News broadcasts are good too because the announcers speak slowly and correctly. I have the hardest time when people speak rapidly with a lot of slang.


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## TundraGreen

I spend a lot of time watching movies dubbed in Spanish with Spanish subtitles. They almost never agree in detail. It is interesting to see. Sometimes I am tempted to switch to the English version to see whether the dubbing or the subtitling was closer to the original. Usually the difference is just the choice of verb or phrasing but sometimes one or the other leaves out things.


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## adamathefrog

TundraGreen said:


> I spend a lot of time watching movies dubbed in Spanish with Spanish subtitles. They almost never agree in detail. It is interesting to see. Sometimes I am tempted to switch to the English version to see whether the dubbing or the subtitling was closer to the original. Usually the difference is just the choice of verb or phrasing but sometimes one or the other leaves out things.


Or when they translate almost every English insult to "idiota".

adam.


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## cuylers5746

*English subtitles in Mexican Movies*

Hi Tudra Green;

No, you're right most of the subtitlying that comes out of Mexico City is Horrific!

My wife an ex Berlitz Spanish Instructor (among several of her careers), wonder's what is the process for hiring these translators? Many time's the translation besides being 100% wrong is laugable. I have to agree. Maybe it's the low cost bidder that get's the job?


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## RVGRINGO

Even the official translators in Mexico are usually pretty poor. Literal, word for word, translations just do not translate the meaning very well. To do that, a translattor must be extremely fluent in both languages, including idioms and slang, as well as generational and geographic differences. That is very rare, to be sure.
Now that I am too blind to read subtitles, the programs are less entertaining without the funny translations.


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## TundraGreen

RVGRINGO said:


> Even the official translators in Mexico are usually pretty poor. Literal, word for word, translations just do not translate the meaning very well. To do that, a translator must be extremely fluent in both languages, including idioms and slang, as well as generational and geographic differences. That is very rare, to be sure.
> Now that I am too blind to read subtitles, the programs are less entertaining without the funny translations.


My listening comprehension isn't good enough yet. I would miss a lot without the subtitles.


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## arturo_b

AlanMexicali said:


> I was watching the movie "The Golden Witch" - "El Bruja Dorada" which was dubbed in Spanish and had Spanish subtitles at the same time. The dubbing and subtltles sometimes used different words.


Most likely that was _La brújula dorada_, "The Golden Compass", and now we can see how things get lost in translation.

Subtitles are sometimes made by reading scripts and sometimes from listening to soundtracks. Working from written scripts allows for more time and greater subtlety in the translation, but that is rare because time is money even when paying pesos. The ones made from soundtracks tend to be really odd, especially when the characters' English is Scouse or Cockney or Strine -- not a good way to learn Spanish.

Dubbing gives you a much more idiomatic translation because the voice-over actors won't say the kind of silly things subtitlers can get away with, but dubbing is harder for a foreigner to study because it goes by in real time. Aside from that, there's something terribly disorienting about watching Penélope Cruz or Antonio Banderas speaking Spanish with a voice that isn't their own.


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## Mr. P Mosh

Some subtitlying is made in the US by the way, mostly in Florida.

Now the dubbing is a totally different beast, in movies it's mostly done in Mexico, but for the same nature of dubbing the choices in words is different than the subtitles. Also, like they're aimed to the whole Spanish-speaking Americas, they must use a sort of "neutral" speech.

About the insults, like most dubbed movies will end on free tv, they get rid off of most insults.
When the American studio gives the freedom to say harder insults (lol) they do it, like in "Super Bad", "Ted" or "Hangover Part 2".


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## AlanMexicali

arturo_b said:


> Most likely that was _La brújula dorada_, "The Golden Compass", and now we can see how things get lost in translation.
> 
> Subtitles are sometimes made by reading scripts and sometimes from listening to soundtracks. Working from written scripts allows for more time and greater subtlety in the translation, but that is rare because time is money even when paying pesos. The ones made from soundtracks tend to be really odd, especially when the characters' English is Scouse or Cockney or Strine -- not a good way to learn Spanish.
> 
> Dubbing gives you a much more idiomatic translation because the voice-over actors won't say the kind of silly things subtitlers can get away with, but dubbing is harder for a foreigner to study because it goes by in real time. Aside from that, there's something terribly disorienting about watching Penélope Cruz or Antonio Banderas speaking Spanish with a voice that isn't their own.


I was in the TV industry for most of my career and the voice dubs have come a long way in the past 15 years. They really do try to match the famous actors voice now where as before a Sean Connery voice dub could be done by a person with a voice that sounded like a 16 year old and was ridicules. etc. 

The names of movies on Dish I watch, sometimes are so far off when I read the guide, then I figure out what movie it is by reading the plot and actors names, but sometime I get fooled even then. Also the date of release on the guide helps a lot to determine what it might be if it isn´t even close in translation.


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## mickisue1

Even when video content in made in a language and dubbed in the same language, there are inconsistencies between the spoken and the written subtitles.

We had closed captioning on for the past two weeks, as it was helpful for my daughter's fiance. And when the content is live, there are huge differences, as with a basketball game. Even when watching a movie, if the subtitles were written from the script, there will be subtle differences with what the actors speak.


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## adamathefrog

RVGRINGO said:


> Even the official translators in Mexico are usually pretty poor. Literal, word for word, translations just do not translate the meaning very well. To do that, a translattor must be extremely fluent in both languages, including idioms and slang, as well as generational and geographic differences. That is very rare, to be sure.
> Now that I am too blind to read subtitles, the programs are less entertaining without the funny translations.


I was watching a movie last night, "Flight". At one point in the movie the pilot is told he had a blood alcohol level of 0.17%.

The Spanish translation tells the audience he had a blood alcohol level of 1.7%.

I almost threw my coffee at the screen!

Though, having said that. I find watching in English with Spanish subtitles a good way to pick up new words, I find myself reading the subtitles whilst listening.


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## AlanMexicali

adamathefrog said:


> I was watching a movie last night, "Flight". At one point in the movie the pilot is told he had a blood alcohol level of 0.17%.
> 
> The Spanish translation tells the audience he had a blood alcohol level of 1.7%.
> 
> I almost threw my coffee at the screen!
> 
> Though, having said that. I find watching in English with Spanish subtitles a good way to pick up new words, I find myself reading the subtitles whilst listening.


Most of the English speaking movies here on Dish TV have either dubbed Spanish only or dubbed Spanish with Spanish subtitles, I guess they are getting their money´s worth. I read and listen at the same time and miss most of the action. LOL


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## Jolga

I just received an email from Livemocha. they are having a 3-day sale of their gold key memberships. Normally it's $100 US for one year, but now it's only $9.95 US. 

I have been a certified second language teacher in Canada for 30 years; in my opinion this is as good, if not better than The Rosetta Stone. At this price I am definitely going to sign up and I will let you know how it goes.

I have nearly completed all 5 levels in The Rosetta Stone Spanish but it has become tedious and I need a fresh approach to my instruction. 

My wife, however, was impressed at how we were able to survive quite well in our recent trip to Mazatlan, so although The Rosetta Stone can become repetitive, it can produce tangible results.

Here is the email I got:

Mark your Calendar
2013 is your year to learn Spanish! 

As a gift to you, we are giving you a one year Gold Key Membership at our lowest price ever. 

$9.95 USD 



Regularly $99.95 USD
Offer EXPIRES JANUARY 11, 2013 MIDNIGHT PST. 


What's Gold Key? 

•	Unlimited access to all of Livemocha's premium language courses
•	Any video, any speaking or writing exercise, any lesson in any course.
•	Feedback from native speakers, 24/7

*Offer not valid in Brazil


----------



## Beto

SOME ADDITIONAL IDEAS:

I like all of these, maybe you'll like at least one.


*DOROTHY RICHMOND BOOKS*

I love the books by Dorothy Richmond. They have clear, brief explanations followed by excellent fill-in-the-blank items to translate. She throws in variations in the questions, so you are always learning, not just practicing a pattern. They are Spanish Pronouns and Prepositions, and Spanish Verb Tenses. She has 5 Star reviews out the wazoo on Amazon.com


*EL CONSUMIDOR VIDS WITH SUBTITLES*

El Consumidor videos (online and on TV) have Spanish subtitles that exactly match the spoken Spanish. This really sharpens your hearing. They are produced by the government, but they are practical and fun.

Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor - YouTube
OR...
Search YouTube for "el consumidor" profeco


*THE ECHO TECHNIQUE*

When I find slower speech that is clearly spoken, like the Congressional channel, I sometimes repeat everything I hear as fast as I can. This really sharpens the reflexes (especially important if you're older, like me). If you put on headphones and turn them up a little, your own speech will not interfere with your hearing. Or mouth what you are hearing.


*REVERSO FORUM*

There are wonderful discussions of Spanish on the Reverso dictionary site in particular. Every time I go to translate something and hit a difficulty, someone has already discussed it there.

forum translation Spanish | English-Spanish dictionary | Reverso Collins


*STUDYX FLASHCARDS*

I use StudyX to pop up a word every ten minutes while I am on the computer. It is basically a computerized flashcard. You can easily create your own word lists. It automatically creates multiple choice questions for you, and repeats the ones you got wrong at a higher frequency to aid your learning. If you have it going for just an hour a day, you get 6 questions that way. In a year, you've gotten maybe 1,500 exposures, and that's with light use. 

www.studyx.com/


*SIDE BY SIDE DOCUMENTS*

This is more for vocabulary than proper translation, but sometimes I'll have Microsoft Word (or other online translator) translate a document. I put each language in a two column table in Word so they are side-by-side. As I read through the Spanish, I can see the words I don't know on the other side. If you replace each space with a period prior to translating (mass replace via control-H), you will get a word for word translation. It will make no sense, but you can see all the words translated individually, so it is good for vocabulary. Nice if you are learning some specialized material in a particular field or hobby, say, rocket science or brain surgery. 


GOOD LUCK! HAVE FUN!


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## Jolga

Thanks for all the great info Beto.:clap2:
I have saved this for present and future use.

Now for some preliminary feedback regarding Livemocha. I have signed up for a year but the process was far from painless. Lots of technical glitches but the support staff was very helpful and created workarounds to allow me to register. 

I am only practising on the first lessons to learn how to use the system rather than really build on what I already know.

I wrote a short text and submitted it for review and received no less than 6 responses from Tutors. I will try and figure out how to link myself to one tutor so as not to waste their time and mine. 

I received many chat requests but declined them for now as I was busy struggling to get registered and I am not ready to chat in Spanish without knowing more about this huge site.

The sound quality of the self recordings is not as good as The Rosetta Stone but I may be able to solve that tomorrow.


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## Beto

Thanks! Oh, I forgot to mention the Pimsleur audio approach. This is for absolute or near beginners. It can be done without looking at a text. It's entirely drills designed scientifically to get you responding reflexively with the material firmly in long-term memory. It's kind of fun and relaxing. You can do dishes, drive, take a walk, or whatever, while listening. This is how I got started (usually while commuting to work), it and gave me the confidence to start communicating verbally, even though I just had the most basic skills. 

They focus on the material you are most in need of (including saying you don't speak spanish or please speak more slowly). It's half-hour lessons. You take each several times until you have at least 80% success in responding to each item. It uses a lot of repetition, so you build your ability to respond rather than just having a lot of new items thrown at you that wouldn't stick. Michel Thomas is OK, but I think this is much more comprehensive, systematic, and relevant.


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## Isla Verde

Misterrh said:


> Learning Spanish is easy, fun and fast with "Spanish in 100 days". Find it on Facebook


I wouldn't put my faith in any program that says you can learn Spanish (or any language) in a mere 100 days !


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## circle110

I just found a great way to improve your accent -- hang out with a wise-acre Mexican teenager!

After years of speaking Spanish all day, every day in the home, I no longer really make many mistakes but I still have a small accent. People tell me that my accent very "leve" or "neutro" (light or neutral).

But....
When we are with my wife's 15 year old niece she nails me with mimicry EVERY time I pronounce a word poorly. It really works well to make me aware, as long as I don't let myself get upset or embarrassed by her mocking me. Most Mexicans are very kind and don't bother to point out one's pronunciation oddities but a teenager has no mercy!


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## mickisue1

Circle, when my youngest was getting speech therapy for his lisp (my then BF, now husband, was Won, not Ron, his friend at preschool was Mawwowy, not Mallory), the therapist encouraged us to parrot back to him the way that he sounded.

His siblings loved it. They could tell him how he sounded, so long as they were NOT mocking, and he heard how others heard his speech. It's a revelation to hear what comes out of our own mouths, when we are willing to listen!


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## Isla Verde

circle110 said:


> I just found a great way to improve your accent -- hang out with a wise-acre Mexican teenager!
> 
> After years of speaking Spanish all day, every day in the home, I no longer really make many mistakes but I still have a small accent. People tell me that my accent very "leve" or "neutro" (light or neutral).
> 
> But....
> When we are with my wife's 15 year old niece she nails me with mimicry EVERY time I pronounce a word poorly. It really works well to make me aware, as long as I don't let myself get upset or embarrassed by her mocking me. Most Mexicans are very kind and don't bother to point out one's pronunciation oddities but a teenager has no mercy!


I think it's fine to have a Mexican friend who will offer to help you correct pronunciation errors, and it's true that most Mexicans are loathe to correct pronunciation or grammatical mistakes. But the mocking isn't really necessary, IMO. I wonder if your wife's niece has ever tried to learn to speak another language. If she had, she might be more supportive of your attempts to speak her native tongue well.


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## circle110

Isla Verde said:


> I think it's fine to have a Mexican friend who will offer to help you correct pronunciation errors, and it's true that most Mexicans are loathe to correct pronunciation or grammatical mistakes. But the mocking isn't really necessary, IMO. I wonder if your wife's niece has ever tried to learn to speak another language. If she had, she might be more supportive of your attempts to speak her native tongue well.


No, she hasn't tried to learn a language and that's what allows her to feel so "superior". I don't mind it, she keeps me from getting lazy and, in her own odd way, she's showing "cariño" by doing it.

If I can pat my own back for a second, my Spanish is nearly flawless so she is simply hunting for something to "bust me" with. If I were less advanced it might intimidate me but these days if I get tongue tied on a word or lapse into lazy pronunciation, it doesn't bother me that she calls me on it. The better you get, the harder it is to improve so avoiding her jibes becomes a good exercise in concentration for me.


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## CanGuy78

I have used Rocket Spanish and I find it offers a good variety of language and topics, a great place to start and the price is definitely reasonable.


----------



## Guategringo

I just had a funny experience. I learned all my Spanish living 20 years in Guatemala. Today I was speaking with a new friend of ours here Queretaro and told him that within the next 10 years I want to buy a piece of land and have a nice vegetable garden, fruit trees, a couple of chicken and a coche or two... He looked at me weird and said why the coches? I said I love ham, bacon and pork chops.... He said - "discluple olvide que tu eres de Guatemala." Coche in guatemala is pig, here in mexico its a car, but I was just too used to saying that for the past 20 years. 

I remember when I was learning to speak Spanish and I was at an Italian restaurant in guatemala city and on the menu they had fettucine inferno or fettucine in a hot cream sauce. When my turn came to order I asked for fettucine enfermo or sick fettucine. Everyone had a nice laugh and I just crawled under the table!!


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> I just had a funny experience. I learned all my Spanish living 20 years in Guatemala. Today I was speaking with a new friend of ours here Queretaro and told him that within the next 10 years I want to buy a piece of land and have a nice vegetable garden, fruit trees, a couple of chicken and a coche or two... He looked at me weird and said why the coches? I said I love ham, bacon and pork chops.... He said - "discluple olvide que tu eres de Guatemala." Coche in guatemala is pig, here in mexico its a car, but I was just too used to saying that for the past 20 years.
> 
> I remember when I was learning to speak Spanish and I was at an Italian restaurant in guatemala city and on the menu they had fettucine inferno or fettucine in a hot cream sauce. When my turn came to order I asked for fettucine enfermo or sick fettucine. Everyone had a nice laugh and I just crawled under the table!!


Cute stories. I guess that "coche" is short for "cochino". Mexicans also say "carro" for automobile. When I've said that in Spain, everyone knew that I'd learned my Spanish in Mexico, but they never said I was Mexican. How nice that your Spanish is so good that your new friend thinks you're from Guatemala!

My embarrassing story has to do with that dangerous word "embarazada". During my first summer in Mexico, way back when my colloquial spoken Spanish was not very good, I used it to mean "embarrassed" and when the Mexican friends I was with started to laugh, I really was, embarrassed, that is, not that other thing.


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## Guategringo

Isla Verde said:


> Cute stories. I guess that "coche" is short for "cochino". Mexicans also say "carro" for automobile. When I've said that in Spain, everyone knew that I'd learned my Spanish in Mexico, but they never said I was Mexican. How nice that your Spanish is so good that your new friend thinks you're from Guatemala!
> 
> My embarrassing story has to do with that dangerous word "embarazada". During my first summer in Mexico, way back when my colloquial spoken Spanish was not very good, I used it to mean "embarrassed" and when the Mexican friends I was with started to laugh, I really was, embarrassed, that is, not that other thing.


Isla, that same thing happened to me. Imagine me telling everyone I was embarazada!!!! All this here in Mexico is new and different, much different than Guatemala. In Guatemala I used much more tu y vos instead of usted, as I spent most of my time with family or close friends. 

How are the Mexicans in that regard? Are they more formal, even after they get to know you. Our new friend has already started using tu and vos and I am not sure if he is the norm or the exception. Thanks.


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> Isla, that same thing happened to me. Imagine me telling everyone I was embarazada!!!! All this here in Mexico is new and different, much different than Guatemala. In Guatemala I used much more tu y vos instead of usted, as I spent most of my time with family or close friends.
> 
> How are the Mexicans in that regard? Are they more formal, even after they get to know you. Our new friend has already started using tu and vos and I am not sure if he is the norm or the exception. Thanks.


The "embarazada" thing is even funnier when a man says it!

"Vos" is not part of Mexican Spanish. The only person I know in Mexico who uses it is a student of mine from Argentina, where it is used all the time. And it is used in parts of Central America, as you know. Here's some more information about it:
Voseo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

If you're not a child or teenager, Mexicans will address you as "usted" when you first meet, especially if they are younger than you. In time, they may begin to use "tú", but it all depends on a number of things, including social class. For example, the woman who used to clean my apartment for me addressed me as "usted" for quite a while, until we got to know each other better. My students, most of them young adults, may have started off with "usted" (especially when they first got in touch with me over the internet), but quickly change to "tú", on those rare occasions when we speak in Spanish. I'm sure that other posters will be able to provide other examples.


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## Guategringo

Thanks Isla. However, the tu and usted form is universal in Spanish. Do you find that when your close friends speak to you they speak to you in the tu form or more casual or do they always use usted? 

Like I mentioned before, this new friend of ours is already using tu when he refers to me and only used usted when we first met him at the lawyers office. Just curious? do not want to step on toes by using tu too quick or usted too long!!!


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## circle110

"Tutear" is not so universal. No one ever says "tu" nor uses the tu form of verbs in Costa Rica, even within the nuclear family. It is that way in some parts of Colombia as well. 
We did the same thing with English by eliminating thou (the "tu" form of old English) and its verb conjugations (like "art" - the thou form of "to be") from our language some centuries ago.

I have noticed that the crossover line between "tu" and "usted" also changes from place to place and culture to culture. Mexicans in general seem comparatively quick to switch to "tu" from "usted" or even skip that formality altogether and go directly to "tu" with people their own age. That doesn't include when talking to someone much older - they always keep that respectful and stay with "usted" which I think is a nice touch of class. I have had several young people ask my permission to "Tutear" with me, which is another classy touch.


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## Guategringo

circle110 I would not say it is never used in costa rica as I have friends who are ticos and they us it, even though they do not use it as much as in guatemala, el salvador or honduras. Thanks for letting me know about people here changing quickly from usted to vos. this new friend of ours is about the same age as we are so I was not worried about him being disrespectful.


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## circle110

I'll bet your Tico friends don't use it very much back home. Ticos know that their non-use of tu is not the norm so they accept it from foreigners and adopt it when abroad or when talking to foreigners, but I have never heard a Tico use tu in Costa Rica, even mothers with their babies. I found it odd but I grew used to it after a while.

When I was in Spain my friends there gave me a hard time about using "ustedes" in place of "vosotros". They said it sounded strangely over-formal amongst friends. I never did get used to using vosotros because all my experience is with Latin American Spanish and the conjugations for vosotros aren't at all automatic for me so I stuck with ustedes out of mental laziness and fear of tangling up my verb endings!


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> circle110 I would not say it is never used in costa rica as I have friends who are ticos and they us it, even though they do not use it as much as in guatemala, el salvador or honduras. Thanks for letting me know about people here changing quickly from usted to vos. this new friend of ours is about the same age as we are so I was not worried about him being disrespectful.


Remember that "vos" is not used in Mexico! People around the same age will change quickly from "usted" to "tú" once they feel they have your "confianza".


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## Isla Verde

circle110 said:


> .
> 
> When I was in Spain my friends there gave me a hard time about using "ustedes" in place of "vosotros". They said it sounded strangely over-formal amongst friends. I never did get used to using vosotros because all my experience is with Latin American Spanish and the conjugations for vosotros aren't at all automatic for me so I stuck with ustedes out of mental laziness and fear of tangling up my verb endings!


When I first studied Spanish, in high school (back in the Middle Ages), we were taught Peninsular Spanish, so we learned the conjugations for _vosotros_, along with all the other parts of the verb. But when I started using Spanish in daily life, it was either in Mexico or with Latin Americans in the States, so I quickly forgot those complicated _vosotros_ verb endings. In later years I did spend quite a bit of time in Spain, but I always had trouble remembering the correct forms for _vosotros_ and often reverted to _ustedes_. Come to think of it, my first summer in Mexico, my first time spent in a Spanish-speaking country, I tried to use _vosotros_ with my new Mexican friends, and they laughed (in the nicest way, of course) and explained my mistake to me.


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> Thanks Isla. However, the tu and usted form is universal in Spanish. Do you find that when your close friends speak to you they speak to you in the tu form or more casual or do they always use usted?


Close friends always speak to me using _tú_. Since I am "of a certain age", strangers or people in the neighborhood who don't know me very well or tradespeople I deal with regularly use _usted_ with me. And I always use _usted_ with the older gentleman who owns the barbershop next door along with several apartments in my building. I see him often and have pleasant chats with him, but I always address him as _usted_. On the other hand, his assistant in the shop is a man around forty. We chat a lot and address each other as _tú_. So the rule is, it all depends . . .


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> Close friends always speak to me using tú. Since I am "of a certain age", strangers or people in the neighborhood who don't know me very well or tradespeople I deal with regularly use usted with me. And I always use usted with the older gentleman who owns the barbershop next door along with several apartments in my building. I see him often and have pleasant chats with him, but I always address him as usted. On the other hand, his assistant in the shop is a man around forty. We chat a lot and address each other as tú. So the rule is, it all depends . . .


To be on the safe side, you should start with the formal way; usted, then, if the other person allows it, or you get to be more familiar, you can start using tú ( tutear) or allow the other people to address to you as tú.
It is considered as disrespectful when people start right off with tú, we consider them as disrespectful or "igualados" and it is very common for people to be very very direct when this should happen and complain and/ or demand a more respectful treatment.
It is customary and generally adviced to not let anyone to address you with the informal ways of tú, because that could lead to a lack of respect and possibly some misunderstandings.
Older people may address in an informal way when talking to younger people, 
If young people does the same it' considered as lack of education or disrespect.
People the same age may attempt to tutear the other person, but then again, they are taking the chances of being discouraged from doing so or simply be taken as a rude person, without any comments.
It is better to wait until the other person invites us to call them by their first name or tutearlos: "no me hables de usted, por favor"


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> When I first studies Spanish, in high school (back in the Middle Ages), we were taught Peninsular Spanish, so we learned the conjugations for vosotros, along with all the other parts of the verb. But when I started using Spanish in daily life, it was either in Mexico or with Latin Americans in the States, so I quickly forgot those complicated vosotros verb endings. In later years I did spend quite a bit of time in Spain, but I always had trouble remembering the correct forms for vosotros and often reverted to ustedes. Come to think of it, my first summer in Mexico, my first time spent in a Spanish-speaking country, I tried to use vosotros with my new Mexican friends, and they laughed (in the nicest way, of course) and explained my mistake to me.


When I was very very young, they used to teach us " vosotros" they don't do that anymore, and of course we do not use that form, but we do understand it when people do use it.
Spaniards, colombians, argentinians (vos) etc.


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> When I was very very young, they used to teach us " vosotros" they don't do that anymore, and of course we do not use that form, but we do understand it when people do use it.
> Spaniards, colombians, argentinians (vos) etc.


"Vosotros" an "tú" are two different things: "Vosotros" and its associated verb forms are the plural of "tú". "Vos" is a kind of alternative to "tú" and in the present tense and imperative uses verb forms historically derived from "vosotros" verb forms. For example, ¿Qué hacés vos? = ¿Qué haces tú? The "vosotros" equivalent is ¿Qué hacéis vosotros?


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> "Vosotros" an "tú" are two different things: "Vosotros" and its associated verb forms are the plural of "tú". "Vos" is a kind of alternative to "tú" and in the present tense and imperative uses verb forms historically derived from "vosotros" verb forms. For example, ¿Qué hacés vos? = ¿Qué haces tú? The "vosotros" equivalent is ¿Qué hacéis vosotros?


I know they are different, I was just making another example
Vosotros, vosotras, comes from vos/ otros, it's a personal pronoun for the 2nd person, plural, masculine or feminine
Vos: Also a personal pronoun, second person, singular or plural, masculine or feminine
Trust me on this; it's my native tongue


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> "Vosotros" an "tú" are two different things: "Vosotros" and its associated verb forms are the plural of "tú". "Vos" is a kind of alternative to "tú" and in the present tense and imperative uses verb forms historically derived from "vosotros" verb forms. For example, ¿Qué hacés vos? = ¿Qué haces tú? The "vosotros" equivalent is ¿Qué hacéis vosotros?


Another example for the use of vos as a plural: vos sois mis amigos
You can use it in the same manner as ustedes


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I know they are different, I was just making another example
> Vosotros, vosotras, comes from vos/ otros, it's a personal pronoun for the 2nd person, plural, masculine or feminine
> Vos: Also a personal pronoun, second person, singular or plural, masculine or feminine
> Trust me on this; it's my native tongue


I wasn't referring to "vos" as an object pronoun related to "vosotros" but to its idiosyncratic use in Argentina and elsewhere as a subject pronoun with unique verb forms. I know it's your native language, one I have spent many years studying at the university level, so I too know what I'm talking about .


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## marcelli

I am curious where you live in Mexico City. I am a single, retired widow from New York City who would like to retire in Mexico. Since I am a city person, would like to know if you like living in Mexico City? I have traveled all over the world and lived in Hong Kong, Japan, and Europe and in South America. I would private message you but can't because I haven't posted enough.

Thanks


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## Isla Verde

marcelli said:


> I am curious where you live in Mexico City. I am a single, retired widow from New York City who would like to retire in Mexico. Since I am a city person, would like to know if you like living in Mexico City? I have traveled all over the world and lived in Hong Kong, Japan, and Europe and in South America. I would private message you but can't because I haven't posted enough.
> 
> Thanks


Do you mean me? I live in the center of Mexico City, though not in the downtown area - my apartment is a few blocks in back of the American Embassy. I am also a city person (I  NYC) and love living in Mexico City. You just need to make 5 posts to be able to send me a PM. In the meantime, feel free to ask me any questions you may have in the public part of the Forum.


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## marcelli

Thx for replying quickly. Have you lived in New York? I'm a Brooklyn girl. What areas of Mexico City would you recommend to live? I want to rent an apt. or condo. I have heard Roma or Condesa.


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## marcelli

I can get by in Spanish but not fluent. I speak Brazilian Portuguese and of course English.


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## marcelli

I also have a little 10lb Maltese dog I want to bring with me.


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## Isla Verde

marcelli said:


> Thx for replying quickly. Have you lived in New York? I'm a Brooklyn girl. What areas of Mexico City would you recommend to live? I want to rent an apt. or condo. I have heard Roma or Condesa.


I'm from Philly and have lived in several places in the States and overseas. I lived in NYC in the 1990s and on into the early 2000s. I lived in Brooklyn in Park Slope and then moved to Windsor Terrace. Roma and Condesa are nice areas. Condesa can be a bit pricey, so Roma (Norte or Sur) might be a better place to look for an apartment. My area (colonia Cuauhtémoc) is also nice - I'm very happy here!


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## Isla Verde

marcelli said:


> I also have a little 10lb Maltese dog I want to bring with me.


Can't help you with bringing your dog to Mexico, but I know it can be done. Perhaps one of the other posters can help you out. You might try starting a new thread to ask this particular question.


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## Isla Verde

marcelli said:


> I can get by in Spanish but not fluent. I speak Brazilian Portuguese and of course English.


I studied Brazilian Portuguese when I was getting my MA in Spanish and found the many similarities between the two languages helpful, though I often ended up using a Spanish word when I couldn't think of the word in Portuguese! If you end up moving here, it would be a good idea to take some classes to get you started with Spanish.


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Another example for the use of vos as a plural: vos sois mis amigos
> You can use it in the same manner as ustedes


That should be "vosotros sois mis amigos", at least that's how it would be said in Spain.


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## Guategringo

Isla Verde said:


> I'm from Philly and have lived in several places in the States and overseas. I lived in NYC in the 1990s and on into the early 2000s. I lived in Brooklyn in Park Slope and then moved to Windsor Terrace. Roma and Condesa are nice areas. Condesa can be a bit pricey, so Roma (Norte or Sur) might be a better place to look for an apartment. My area (colonia Cuauhtémoc) is also nice - I'm very happy here!


Isla I noticed in this post you said you were from Philly. Me too, born at Chestnut Hill Hospital back in '62... Small world we live in. Saludos


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## TundraGreen

marcelli said:


> I am curious where you live in Mexico City. I am a single, retired widow from New York City who would like to retire in Mexico. Since I am a city person, would like to know if you like living in Mexico City? I have traveled all over the world and lived in Hong Kong, Japan, and Europe and in South America. I would private message you but can't because I haven't posted enough.
> 
> Thanks


Do not discount Mexico's second city, Guadalajara. It is also worth considering if you like city life. In comparison to Mexico City, I would make the following comments. I am sure IV and others could add their own take on the comparison.

Mexico City is bigger (x4 or x5) and has lots more of everything: culture, movies, people, government offices.
Gdl is lower and somewhat warmer than Mexico City (DF).
The smaller scale makes getting around easier in Gdl I believe.
The subway system in DF is more comprehensive, however there are lots of bus routes in Gdl.
Probably more specialty shops in DF for foods, restaurants etc. Gdl is big enough to have some, but probably more choice in DF. For example, Gdl has just three Indian restaurants, maybe two Thai places, a few asian grocery stores, lots of bad Chinese restaurants.
More choices for independent cinema in DF, but half a dozen or so in Gdl.
Live in HD from the Met in NY in both cities.
Gdl is home to much of Mexico's culture (Mariachi, Tequila, Charo).
Lots of good hiking close to Gdl. I don't know about DF.


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## circle110

Isla Verde said:


> That should be "vosotros sois mis amigos", at least that's how it would be said in Spain.


That concurs with my experience as well.

All my Argentinian friends use the tu form of the verb when they use vos as a subject pronoun.

The Spaniards use sois as the vosotros form of ser like in Isla's example. 

If you look at this page, it shows that the conjugation for vos is not standard and totally dependent on where one comes from. It looks like GaryJ65's example comes from Venezuela and/or Panama.


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> Isla I noticed in this post you said you were from Philly. Me too, born at Chestnut Hill Hospital back in '62... Small world we live in. Saludos


Small world, indeed. I was born in what was then called The Jewish Hospital, now named for Albert Einstein.


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## maesonna

marcelli said:


> I also have a little 10lb Maltese dog I want to bring with me.


If you should have any questions about the immigration requirements for your dog, there are some other threads with information.


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## GARYJ65

What percentage of Mexicans speak English? Anyone knows?


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> What percentage of Mexicans speak English? Anyone knows?


 I have no idea, but first you need to define what you mean by "speak English". In other words, how fluently and in what situations?


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> I have no idea, but first you need to define what you mean by "speak English". In other words, how fluently and in what situations?


In addition, I am not sure an average would mean very much. The rate of bilingualism varies greatly for various categories. Amongst highly educated Mexicans, many if not most speak at least some English. Also amongst people who have spent time north of the border, there is frequently some knowledge of English. On the other hand, I have been in villages where no one spoke English and many of the older people did not even speak Spanish, just Purepecha.


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## AlanMexicali

GARYJ65 said:


> What percentage of Mexicans speak English? Anyone knows?


I would guess about 5% can communicate in English to get their point across in many situations. In tourist zones those working with tourists would be the bulk of the around 5%. Alan


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## Longford

> Best way to learn Spanish


Total immersion. That's the best, and most difficult way for beginners.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Total immersion. That's the best, and most difficult way for beginners.


For the vast majority of monolingual adults, total immersion will only work if they also take formal classes of some sort. That's my opinion as a former Spanish teacher and semi-retired English teacher with many years of experience under my belt.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> I wouldn't put my faith in any program that says you can learn Spanish (or any language) in a mere 100 days !


I guess you wouldn't click on a link in some spam I just received that promised:

BREAKING NEWS: Scientific Discovery Reveals the Secret to Speaking any Language in just 10 Days!


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I guess you wouldn't click on a link in some spam I just received that promised:
> 
> BREAKING NEWS: Scientific Discovery Reveals the Secret to Speaking any Language in just 10 Days!


Gag me with a spoon!


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> For the vast majority of monolingual adults, total immersion will only work if they also take formal classes of some sort. That's my opinion as a former Spanish teacher and semi-retired English teacher with many years of experience under my belt.


Yes, that's what total immersion means ... and what my recommendation is as what's "best." It's tough-love, but at the end of the process ... rewarding. If someone cannot enroll in an immersion course, for whatever reason, then forget studying Spanish before coming to Mexico. Instead, take a primer on English grammar. Refresh those rules, then take an immersion course in Mexico. I think other nickle and dime, bit by bit attempts to study are a waste of time for most. Then again, if your partner ... the person you're sleeping with speaks Spanish from birth .... well, that's a good way to learn the language, as well!


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Yes, that's what total immersion means ... and what my recommendation is as what's "best." It's tough-love, but at the end of the process ... rewarding. If someone cannot enroll in an immersion course, for whatever reason, then forget studying Spanish before coming to Mexico. Instead, take a primer on English grammar. Refresh those rules, then take an immersion course in Mexico. I think other nickle and dime, bit by bit attempts to study are a waste of time for most. Then again, if your partner ... the person you're sleeping with speaks Spanish from birth .... well, that's a good way to learn the language, as well!


I misunderstood what you meant by "immersion". I thought you meant arrive in Mexico and jump right into the Spanish-speaking environment without any formal preparation. I think that taking some sort of class and then practicing what you learn outside of class is the most effective way to learn any language. You can get something out of taking a good Spanish class before arriving, as long it is focused on communication, rather than just learning grammar rules.

I always tell new students that having an English-speaking _pareja_ is the best way to learn the language, but if that's not a possibility, then a good platonic friend will also do!


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## maesonna

We all have different learning styles, but I think there is a best-of-both approach.

I used to believe in 100% immersion, no mother tongue allowed – after all that’s how we learned our first language as babies, and it worked very well.

But then I heard something that made lots of sense to me: this sink-or-swim approach doesn’t take into account that we are not babies anymore, so we can take advantage of shortcuts that weren’t available to us in infancy – namely, having the trickier Spanish vocabulary and grammar concepts explained to us in English when we meet them for the first time.

I do agree, though that aside from this, we learn best when we immerse ourselves fully: ideally mixing and conversing only with people who don’t speak English (or who won’t speak it around us).


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## jamesmejia

Agree we need to learn each new thing..


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## GARYJ65

AlanMexicali said:


> I would guess about 5% can communicate in English to get their point across in many situations. In tourist zones those working with tourists would be the bulk of the around 5%. Alan


That was my guess too, It's unbelievable, being neighbors with an english speaking country as well as major business partners


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## GARYJ65

maesonna said:


> We all have different learning styles, but I think there is a best-of-both approach.
> 
> I used to believe in 100% immersion, no mother tongue allowed – after all that’s how we learned our first language as babies, and it worked very well.
> 
> But then I heard something that made lots of sense to me: this sink-or-swim approach doesn’t take into account that we are not babies anymore, so we can take advantage of shortcuts that weren’t available to us in infancy – namely, having the trickier Spanish vocabulary and grammar concepts explained to us in English when we meet them for the first time.
> 
> I do agree, though that aside from this, we learn best when we immerse ourselves fully: ideally mixing and conversing only with people who don’t speak English (or who won’t speak it around us).


I agree on the total immersion method, and I was going to say something like what you just did; I am positive that you have to get some explanation for diffucult things in your own language, that makes it easier to learn and gives no chance to misunderstandings.
One more thing I would like to add: It is very very important that the people you are learning from would have a good command of the language, good vocabulary and cultural / educational level, otherwise you will end up speaking with the wrong accent, and saying the wrong words.
As an exaggerated example: I 've heard people saying things like "ansina" (trying to say "asi") 
It takes a great amount of discipline, time, memory skills, practice to learn a language but it is very rewarding and practical at the end
Just my opinion


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## AlanMexicali

GARYJ65 said:


> That was my guess too, It's unbelievable, being neighbors with an english speaking country as well as major business partners


It is not unbelievable considering Americans are in the same boat and probably about 5% of Ameircans can communicate in Spanish. Americans that aren´t Latinos or aren´t married to Latinos etc. 

Many Americans and Canadians retired in Mexico aren´t very good at Spanish for the most part either in some tourist areas I have read. That is why living outside of the tourist areas forces you to communicate in Spanish and learn the language one way or another, not just some common phrases. IMO


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## GARYJ65

AlanMexicali said:


> It is not unbelievable considering Americans are in the same boat and probably about 5% of Ameircans can communicate in Spanish. Americans that aren´t Latinos or aren´t married to Latinos etc.
> 
> Many Americans and Canadians retired in Mexico aren´t very good at Spanish for the most part either in some tourist areas I have read. That is why living outside of the tourist areas forces you to communicate in Spanish and learn the language one way or another, not just some common phrases. IMO


Unbelievable both ways!
It makes it so much harder on everything
I know some Dutch people, they are sooooo good with foreign languages! Of course; if they don't speak anything but Dutch, they would be really in trouble, not being able to communicate or make business to anyone but Dutch people!
Without trying to make a sci fi plot out of this, I may think our governments have something to do with this, it may be convinient to keep it that way for some reason unknown to me!

But really, it would make many things so much easier if we could communicate better....


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Unbelievable both ways!
> It makes it so much harder on everything
> I know some Dutch people, they are sooooo good with foreign languages! Of course; if they don't speak anything but Dutch, they would be really in trouble, not being able to communicate or make business to anyone but Dutch people!
> .


And that's the point, isn't it? People from developed countries, especially in Europe, whose language is spoken only within that country, need to have a good command of other languages, especially English, so their educational system provides excellent foreign language instruction to its children from the start. That's true in the Netherlands and the Scandanavian countries, and also in Germany.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> And that's the point, isn't it? People from developed countries, especially in Europe, whose language is spoken only within that country, need to have a good command of other languages, especially English, so their educational system provides excellent foreign language instruction to its children from the start. That's true in the Netherlands and the Scandanavian countries, and also in Germany.


Germany...I have some doubts, agree with you on the other comments
And really, As far as economical growth, as well as cultural , science, etc. i cannot find an answer as to why our countries do not support and encourage ways to communicate, somebody wins on this matter?


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## RVGRINGO

I once had a Turkish friend, an older uneducated laborer, who was also a poet. He could speak thirteen languages, but no English. A boy, from a rather mixed family and only five at the time, spoke five languages with no formal instruction. In his family, Turkish, Italian, English, French and German came naturally, and of necessity.
In most of the old world and Africa, being at least trilingual is not unusual. It makes me envious!


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Germany...I have some doubts, agree with you on the other comments
> And really, As far as economical growth, as well as cultural , science, etc. i cannot find an answer as to why our countries do not support and encourage ways to communicate, somebody wins on this matter?


In Mexico, it may have something to do with the government's educational policy, or the lack of an effective one.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> In Mexico, it may have something to do with the government's educational policy, or the lack of an effective one.


And in the US ?


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## GARYJ65

RVGRINGO said:


> I once had a Turkish friend, an older uneducated laborer, who was also a poet. He could speak thirteen languages, but no English. A boy, from a rather mixed family and only five at the time, spoke five languages with no formal instruction. In his family, Turkish, Italian, English, French and German came naturally, and of necessity.
> In most of the old world and Africa, being at least trilingual is not unusual. It makes me envious!


I feel envious too!
In the end, when we speak languages, we can ask for a coke in 20 different ways!


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> And in the US ?


In the US, educational policy is de-centralized - each state has its own curricula and standards, while in Mexico these things are determined by the federal government.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> In the US, educational policy is de-centralized - each state has its own curricula and standards, while in Mexico these things are determined by the federal government.


I know, but still, the policy regarding languages is not working


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I know, but still, the policy regarding languages is not working


Do you mean in Mexico? What does the policy say about learning English?


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## JuanitoM

I know both of my younger sisters learned English while in grade school and high school, one caught on better than the other. I know kids that are born and raised there that speak better English than me and I have been in the US speaking English for over 25 years. There are also friends of theirs that speak English along with German and some of them also speak Mandarin and Japanese.

From my experience any and every language you try to learn it is a lifestyle and has to be practiced everyday. I pretty much came to the US and could not keep up with Spanish while learning English so I dropped Spanish and chose to only speak English which I do not regret all that much because I do not have any accent when I speak either language. Now that I am learning more of my native tongue and starting to use it, it comes back a little easier. Where I run into trouble is trying to figure out how to make sense when saying it in Spanish and thinking of it in English because you can say it and it is backwards to them but most folks understand and do not hold it against you. I was able to pick up on some of the things just listening to my dad and family talk to one another, but most of the time I had this wth look on my face while they spoke to one another.

Oh and I don't care what anyone says learning Spanish or English is hard for me and or other people, I have heard a lot of folks claiming English is hard or easy but I swear learning Spanish is just as hard when you go from Spanish to English back to Spanish. Thankfully for me I will be dealing with English speaking people at work which is a negative for me as I will continue to speak English instead of using Spanish to talk to my family when I am with them. 

Carry on


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## RVGRINGO

May I suggest that you take a look at an excellent, free language site: Duolingo.com
You will love it!


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## GARYJ65

JuanitoM said:


> I know both of my younger sisters learned English while in grade school and high school, one caught on better than the other. I know kids that are born and raised there that speak better English than me and I have been in the US speaking English for over 25 years. There are also friends of theirs that speak English along with German and some of them also speak Mandarin and Japanese.
> 
> From my experience any and every language you try to learn it is a lifestyle and has to be practiced everyday. I pretty much came to the US and could not keep up with Spanish while learning English so I dropped Spanish and chose to only speak English which I do not regret all that much because I do not have any accent when I speak either language. Now that I am learning more of my native tongue and starting to use it, it comes back a little easier. Where I run into trouble is trying to figure out how to make sense when saying it in Spanish and thinking of it in English because you can say it and it is backwards to them but most folks understand and do not hold it against you. I was able to pick up on some of the things just listening to my dad and family talk to one another, but most of the time I had this wth look on my face while they spoke to one another.
> 
> Oh and I don't care what anyone says learning Spanish or English is hard for me and or other people, I have heard a lot of folks claiming English is hard or easy but I swear learning Spanish is just as hard when you go from Spanish to English back to Spanish. Thankfully for me I will be dealing with English speaking people at work which is a negative for me as I will continue to speak English instead of using Spanish to talk to my family when I am with them.
> 
> Carry on


You do not have an accent in either one of languages?


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## mickisue1

If you continue to use the language of your childhood, even though you use a different language for the most part, you retain both.

I have a daughter in Italy and a niece and nephew in Greece. They speak the language of the country for the most part, but my niece and nephew go to the British School in Athens. When they haven't spoken middle-American English for a bit, they have an accent, but the cadences of Minnesota come back quickly.

One thing that I learned from being in Toastmasters is this: even if you don't have a huge vocabulary in your adopted language, whether Spanish, English, whatever, study the rhythms and cadences of that language. You will sound more like a native speaker if you speak in the rhythm, using simple words, than if you can conjugate the future pluperfect in that language with your native cadence.


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## GARYJ65

mickisue1 said:


> If you continue to use the language of your childhood, even though you use a different language for the most part, you retain both.
> 
> I have a daughter in Italy and a niece and nephew in Greece. They speak the language of the country for the most part, but my niece and nephew go to the British School in Athens. When they haven't spoken middle-American English for a bit, they have an accent, but the cadences of Minnesota come back quickly.
> 
> One thing that I learned from being in Toastmasters is this: even if you don't have a huge vocabulary in your adopted language, whether Spanish, English, whatever, study the rhythms and cadences of that language. You will sound more like a native speaker if you speak in the rhythm, using simple words, than if you can conjugate the future pluperfect in that language with your native cadence.


I asked because JuanitoM says he dropped spanish 25 yrs ago and is practicing it again now. I would think that he' s very much out of practice as to pass as a native spanish speaker with no accent


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## JuanitoM

GARYJ65 said:


> You do not have an accent in either one of languages?


Not really, I can pronounce and say things in both languages without sounding like I just started to speak either. Now every once in a while I hit some words that get me but that is about it. The biggest problem I run into when speaking Spanish and I mean my limited skills is having people talk back to me really fast and saying things I cannot process fast enough and then having to tell them "yo se poquito espanol"  lol!


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