# The moving jigsaw



## FreddieC (May 24, 2015)

Hi I'm looking for any help people can give regarding moving to Spain... most likely Estepona area. 

I've looked around the forum and there is some great info and clearly people who know their stuff but at the moment it feels a little bit like putting a jigsaw together but I don't know how many pieces there are... or have the picture on the box!

In a nutshell I'm a UK based training consultant working 60% home and 40% international and have figured I can travel to do this... Have seen the phrase 'commuting' which makes sense. 

I'm trying to work out the 'residence' issue (NIE seems a given) and associated benefits and tax implications... let's face it I'm going to have to pay it some where and the treaty means there is unlikely to be any saving. My confusion is over where I would be self employed.

I'm also trying to build a picture of cost of living... clearly there is rent and utilities, but I'm trying to get a grasp of things like community/'council' tax, resident/management fees, medical etc

Quite a lot to ask I know but looking at some of the expertise on here I think some people could given me valuable info before their coffee is at drinkable temperature ;-)

Anticipated thanks

FRED


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## marcia burrell (Aug 14, 2015)

Hi Fred,
I live on the borders of Estepona, so know the area.
I am was self employed for 2 years and recently changed to company status .
Too much info to go through on here, but here is a few things to keep in mind.

If you spend more than 183 day in Spain then you are liable for Spanish tax.
As a self employed, even if you earn no money you do have to pay national insurance which for me was 316€ per month, which provides social security and medical care.
Cost of living in Spain is no longer cheap!
Electricity is very expensive depending on the contract expect to pay around 100€ per month, with 50% of this being taxes as vat is charged at 21%.

Should you rent you will only be required to pay the monthly rent, plus bills.
The community fee, council tax and rubbish tax is paid by the owner.

Hope this helps a bit !


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## FreddieC (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for the info... as they say 'every little helps'!

Info regarding the monthly 'social security payment' is interesting as is the 183 day threshold.

Much appreciated 

FRED


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FreddieC said:


> Thanks for the info... as they say 'every little helps'!
> 
> Info regarding the monthly 'social security payment' is interesting as is the 183 day threshold.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

I guess you had a look at our http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html 
 

there are two kinds of 'residency'

you are required to register as resident if you are here 90 + consecutive days

this has nothing to do with tax residency, which as said, kicks in if you spend 183 days in a calendar year here - not necessarily consecutive

it is perfectly possible to be resident in one context, but not the other 

in both cases it isn't a case of 'benefits' - you just are, or you aren't - though in your situation you could arrange to be out of the country more than 183 days a year should you choose to - you'd need to talk to a Spanish tax expert & then make a decision as to whether you would be better off tax resident here or the UK 

as far as cost of living is concerned - overall it isn't that much different to the UK


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## FreddieC (May 24, 2015)

Yes, looked at FAQs... loads of good stuff there... question of translating it to my situation which we are gradually getting to and help is very much appreciated.

So if I'm right (bear with, I train sales not finance!) - if I'm about for 183 days then its automatically Spanish resident and so pay tax (based on income) there PLUS the €316 social security per month (whether earn or not)

Suppose the question is how this stacks up versus UK Income Tax plus NI contributions... and the desire to be in sun!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FreddieC said:


> Yes, looked at FAQs... loads of good stuff there... question of translating it to my situation which we are gradually getting to and help is very much appreciated.
> 
> So if I'm right (bear with, I train sales not finance!) - if I'm about for 183 days then its automatically Spanish resident and so pay tax (based on income) there PLUS the €316 social security per month (whether earn or not)
> 
> Suppose the question is how this stacks up versus UK Income Tax plus NI contributions... and the desire to be in sun!!!


no no no no NO!!

it's both simpler & more complicated than that

if you are working whilst you're in Spain it _might _make sense to register as self-employed & deal with the tax & SS here & bill the UK company - & qualifying for state healthcare & eventually a pension here 

but if you're working for a UK company & paying tax & NI in the UK then you _might _be better off keeping that in place & getting private healthcare here

that is regardless of how long you are here - if you do any work while you're here, (more than just the odd phone call) that makes you 'tax resident' & you would have to declare income

it depends on your individual circumstances - hence my suggestion of a tax expert

no matter what, you wouldn't pay twice - you might pay a bit extra if the tax allowances are lower here 

the 316€ a month is way at the top end of self-employment/autónomo payments - I pay a lot less than that & I pay more than most - & you only pay that if you register as autónomo 

there's a 'low start offer' at the moment as well - ‘LOW START’ TARIFA PLANA AUTÓNOMO PAYMENTS | Learn-Aprender

and this is an excellent source of info Guide to Spain's autonomo system

if you don't do any work while you're here then just carry on as you are & visit whenever you like, keeping it to less than 183 days if you don't want to be tax resident


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Your utilities bills will depend on the size of dwelling....apartment, townhouse, villa, with pool, garden that needs irrigating in hot dry weather, whether you use aircon and so on.
Our electricity bills average 150 euros a month, water/sewerage bills vary. The last one was 309 euros for three months until the end of July. We have a largeish house on a double plot with pool, two adults and two dogs.
We started using aircon in the bedroom all night during this humid weather so I'm expecting a higher bill next time, plus the swimming pool pump has been running for longer.
This year I didn't bother irrigating the 'lawn', it's a field really and the humidity helped keep it greenish. The next good rainfall will hopefully revive it. Last year's bill for the same period was much higher, over 500 euros.
We have movistar fusion for internet, fijo and mobile which comes to around 70 euros a month.
What you can expect to pay depends on where you choose to live.


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