# Where to live on North Shore?



## langroberte

Hi All,
My family (wife, myself, 5 year old daughter and 2 year old son) will be moving to Auckland in Jan 2016. She will be working as an engineer and I will be taking the time as a sabbatical from my career in K-12 education (I will be finishing up my doctoral dissertation). We plan on living in NZ for 18 months (some people think we won't leave once we get there!).
As we're starting our plans, I have two questions...
1. Approximately, how much does monthly expenses equal (utilities, car insurance, etc.)?
2. Wife will be working in the CBD. We've heard that the North Shore has areas that are great for young families like ours. Any recommendations of towns to rent a house/apartment in? We like the idea of being close to the beach and cafes.

I'm sure I'll have many more questions as we continue to plan our adventure!

Thanks


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## fourseasons

Hi there, firstly, living in Auckland is expensive, product choice is generally poor and the housing stock is shocking. If you are going to be living in the CBD then I would live near the CBD. If you are on the shore you either need to live near a ferry i.e. Devonport or you will have the very long commute into the city. 

I would guess that you are planning to rent if you are only going to be here for a short time? Please be aware that the houses over here are very damp. Typically they have no double glazing, no insulation and no heating. In the winter, when it does get cold btw, you will be heating individual rooms normally with little oil fired radiators. I cannot warn you enough about how bad many of the rentals are :-( and to add insult to injury they are ridiculously expensive. 

Holiday lets tend to be of a much higher quality and are furnished, many do long term lets.

I find most of Auckland pretty good for children actually - I would base where you are going to live around schooling as you daughter will be at school here. When you say close the beaches you actually have a couple of choices - close as in walking distance (narrows your area) or close within 5-10 minute drive (vastly increases your area).


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## langroberte

Thanks for the reply. To put our move into perspective... we live in Chicago and are used to 45 minute commutes and -23C winters.
Do you recommend renting apartment instead of house? We considered renting near CBD, but want room for the kids to go outside and play. We also want to be living near other young families.

I will look into Holiday lets. Thanks for that recommendation!


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## Liam(at)Large

How many kids? A 3 bedroom house with some space for kids on the Shore will cost about $600/week in rent. You don't need to take a ferry, but commuting by car to CBD is a pain, but there is an excellent Northern Express bus service.

I'm from Toronto, and trust me, it's "colder" here in winter than TO or Chicago, as many houses have little to no insulation... It's significantly different to North America where houses are built for low negative temps.

Car insurance is about $40-50/month. Electricity a couple of $100/month. Mobile with data x 2 about $60/month (no contract). Landline with broadband about $100/month (if you are lucky on the Shore you can get fibre, otherwise 5Mbps ADSL, woohoo!!).


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## langroberte

Thanks for the great info. 2 kids.


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## Kimbella

langroberte said:


> Thanks for the reply. To put our move into perspective... we live in Chicago and are used to 45 minute commutes and -23C winters.
> Do you recommend renting apartment instead of house? We considered renting near CBD, but want room for the kids to go outside and play. We also want to be living near other young families.
> 
> I will look into Holiday lets. Thanks for that recommendation!


Hi there, as others have mentioned, the houses are *shocking* compared to what you're used to (no matter WHAT part of the US you are from, except perhaps the backwoods down south), and it is significantly colder, INSIDE, as a result. I have two American friends who came from Alaska a few years back, and they STILL can't believe how freezing cold the home interiors are. So, just realize that people aren't trying to scare you off, or get a reaction out of you, it is genuine concern that you need to *really* understand that the housing stock is substantially substandard to N American quality, and central heating does NOT exist here--seriously. No matter how well you think you understand how cold it will be, you will never have lived in something like here unless you've lived someplace bitterly cold, in a rickety farmhouse without insulation or dual pane windows or heating source. My first winter here was in a house that could only achieve 46 degrees inside when it frosted or snowed. In order to remain warm we made a small bedroom into the living room so that the gas heater we had, coupled with our closeness in a small space could pump the temp to the low 70's during the bitter winter cold. The house I currently live in averages 53 degrees in the winter overnight (as there is no central heater to keep on). So, you'll be heating a home room by room with individual heating sources, gas heaters (they throw off moisture and fumes), or oil column heaters (I don't recommend as I find them to be mostly inefficient in how much they raise the temp, and can cost a fortune). If your earnings are enough to be able to afford a newer build, this will be less of an issue, as it will likely be more weather tight, and should have a heat-pump (similar to a giant space heater on the wall of one room), or a pellet stove, or fireplace, or gas fire, etc. We invested in electric blankets (more what we would call mattress pads, since they go under the bottom sheet, on top of the mattress), and this has been crucial to me staying warm in winter. 
It will be important that you look to TradeMe rental to get a handle on what rental prices are like where you are looking to move. I would also suggest that you google "property managers in [insert city, neighborhood here]" as lots of real estate companies handle both sales, and rentals. Harcourts is the first RE company that pops into my head, but there are lots of them around, and most do that sort of dual work -- selling and managing. Also, be aware that "apartments" like what you will be used to coming from the US, aren't exactly the same, even in Auckland... apartment complex living is not a big thing down here, but Auckland does have a decent number of high-rise apartments, they just won't have the same sort of artificial greenery that a sprawling apartment complex would have. Definitely check out TradeMe for prices on apartments, etc. It's quite likely that an apartment would be significantly more weather-tight, warm, and dry, than the standard housing stock.

I guess the bottom line is what your budget can afford. Obviously the more income you have, the better a home you can afford, which will dramatically reduce your risk of renting an older home that hasn't had much in the way of upgrades or weatherizing.

Cheers!


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## Patrick.

Hi. I am also interested in nice areas on North Shore. Somewhere near enough to beaches, primary schools and decent (cheap) shopping. 
Any info would be appreciated


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## inhamilton

Kimbella said:


> My first winter here was in a house that could only achieve 46 degrees inside when it frosted or snowed.


To be fair, you live in Christchurch. The climate of the North Shore of Auckland is considerably warmer. For example, it never snows and there is hardly ever even a frost. And also, in my opinion, there are plenty of warm toasty houses on the North Shore. All houses built since the 1980's have had to be fully insulated by law, for example. It's just a matter of looking around, and like anywhere, the quality of house you get also depends largely on what you can afford.


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## inhamilton

Patrick. said:


> Hi. I am also interested in nice areas on North Shore. Somewhere near enough to beaches, primary schools and decent (cheap) shopping.
> Any info would be appreciated


Most of the North Shore is within 10 minutes driving of a fairly good beach, plus I think you shouldn't have an issue with any of the primary schools. Albany has a big shopping complex and a lot of the housing around that area and to the north of the North Shore is fairly new. I recommend Mairangi Bay, Browns Bay, Torbay sort of areas.


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## Patrick.

thanks for the reply.


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## Liam(at)Large

inhamilton said:


> And also, in my opinion, there are plenty of warm toasty houses on the North Shore. All houses built since the 1980's have had to be fully insulated by law, for example.


While this is true, honestly, they tend not to be available for rent!


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## Kimbella

inhamilton said:


> To be fair, you live in Christchurch. The climate of the North Shore of Auckland is considerably warmer. For example, it never snows and there is hardly ever even a frost. And also, in my opinion, there are plenty of warm toasty houses on the North Shore. All houses built since the 1980's have had to be fully insulated by law, for example. It's just a matter of looking around, and like anywhere, the quality of house you get also depends largely on what you can afford.



I'm not going to disagree with you completely, because it can definitely be colder, in general, on the South Island, but I wouldn't consider it 'considerably warmer' in winter at all, and let's face it, winter is really the only season that people need to worry about when it comes to extreme temperatures. I think when people are moving from one housing standard, to another that is completely different, they need to know what they'll be in store for. The mean temp for both cities in the middle of winter (July), is roughly the same, around 51 or 52F (excluding periods of snowfall in Canterbury, of course). Either way, it's cold, and finding affordable housing on what sounds to be one income isn't going to come easy. 

I just don't know about the "plenty of" warm and toasty houses you speak of. Maybe they are out there, but friends of mine looked for many weeks without much success when looking to leave Chch...there were definitely houses on the market, many that were modern were financially out of their reach, unfortunately.

Could be their timing was just bad...


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## fourseasons

I think when you have lived in countries where housing is a good standard, you think 'how bad can it be, it's never that cold in Auckland'. Please believe the posters on here about how bad it actually is. It rains a lot in Auckland, houses are terribly damp, we're talking mould on the walls, on furniture, clothes etc. As another poster said these houses are actually colder inside than on the outside, and they smell horribly of damp. On top of this there are health risks, we saw an increase in ear problems in our family and I put it down to a damp house. There aren't that many rentals, there are very very few rentals of a good standard. I cannot warn you enough about this, especially with small children. You will pay an agent 1 weeks rent plus a bond of 3 weeks to move into a house so it isn't cheap. On another note the standard of plumbing and wiring is also shockingly bad and dangerous.

As regards area, tbh lots of areas are good for families. I absolutely love Mairangi Bay etc however I would never live there and commute, especially if I were planning to be somewhere for such a short time. My recommendation is - have a look at holiday rentals (no agent fees, furnished and seem to be of a higher standard), look at Kohi, Mission Bay, St Heliers, Ponsonby.


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## inhamilton

Kimbella said:


> I'm not going to disagree with you completely, because it can definitely be colder, in general, on the South Island, but I wouldn't consider it 'considerably warmer' in winter at all, and let's face it, winter is really the only season that people need to worry about when it comes to extreme temperatures.


July is the coldest month in both Auckland and Christchurch.

In Auckland, the average daily high for July is 14.5C (58.1F), and the average daily low is 7C (44.6F). On top of that, Auckland maybe gets 2 or 3 frosts a year (less on the North Shore).

In Christchurch, the average daily high for July is 11C (51.8F). The average daily low is 1C (33.8F). Chch has about 50 frosts per year.

The climate in Auckland IS considerably warmer  Trust me.


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## inhamilton

fourseasons said:


> My recommendation is - have a look at holiday rentals (no agent fees, furnished and seem to be of a higher standard), look at Kohi, Mission Bay, St Heliers, Ponsonby.


I was walking along the beach at Mission Bay on Sunday, believe it or not. A lot of cafes etc there, although those suburbs mentioned are quite pricey. A lot really depends on what you can afford. Similar vibes on areas of the North Shore for cheaper, although there'd be a longer commute to work. I guess it's swings and roundabouts.


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## Kimbella

inhamilton said:


> July is the coldest month in both Auckland and Christchurch.
> 
> In Auckland, the average daily high for July is 14.5C (58.1F), and the average daily low is 7C (44.6F). On top of that, Auckland maybe gets 2 or 3 frosts a year (less on the North Shore).
> 
> In Christchurch, the average daily high for July is 11C (51.8F). The average daily low is 1C (33.8F). Chch has about 50 frosts per year.
> 
> The climate in Auckland IS considerably warmer  Trust me.


Sorry, but given the state the houses nationally are notorious for (poorly weatherized, most without dual pane windows/insulation, plus copiously weeping condensation on windows, moisture, mould, and mildew on walls, carpet, furniture and clothes), I'll not engage in an argument over the preciousness of NZ's varying climate that is essentially 10 degrees difference, as INDOORS it remains profoundly colder, moldier, moister, and more humid than anyone from North America will have ever experienced before (especially professionals moving from a middle class existence), and even if you are offended that I'm pointing that out, and want to defend it to death, as a transplanted North American, I feel it only fair to be HONEST about the housing conditions these people, with children, will likely be having to filter through to find suitable housing for themselves. It doesn't go unnoticed by anyone that native New Zealander's can be pretty precious when it comes to being honest about the less spectacular aspects of kiwi culture. Whether it's 46 inside or 51, it's still much more freaking cold (and damp and moldy) than we would have experienced INSIDE a home in North America, and people looking to live here DESERVE to know what to expect, and hopefully be able to steer clear of (if they can afford to).

NO place in NZ is safe from mould, mildew, condensation, and poor moisture control. Only the most modern of places are free from all those problems, and in Auckland and Chch particularly, those are the places that are most cost prohibitive to live.


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## langroberte

Thanks for the replies everyone. Housing is going to be the most stressful part of moving! I'm very concerned about cold, damp houses and mold. I'd rather spend a little more to avoid these problems. Also, I'm willing to have a longer commute for my wife in order to avoid damp and mold issues.
I'm considering North Shore or the Mission Bay area. Any comparison between the two areas?
Thanks


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## inhamilton

langroberte said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. Housing is going to be the most stressful part of moving! I'm very concerned about cold, damp houses and mold. I'd rather spend a little more to avoid these problems. Also, I'm willing to have a longer commute for my wife in order to avoid damp and mold issues.
> I'm considering North Shore or the Mission Bay area. Any comparison between the two areas?
> Thanks


Mission Bay has some of the most expensive real estate in the country with expansive views, a good beach, and plentiful beachside cafes. On Sunday they had a bit of beach volleyball going. If you can afford it (I can't and nor can many other people), you'd love it I think. 
The North Shore is a big area, covering the area north of the Harbour Bridge. It has a mix of older wooden houses and newer brick and plaster type suburbs. Northcote, for example, is considered working class. Then there are the beachy suburbs of the eastern bays, and flash new subdivisions to the North. It's hard to sum up because the North Shore covers a variety of different suburbs. Takapuna offers the best shopping and pub type culture, wheres Albany to the north has a giant newish shopping mall.


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## inhamilton

Kimbella said:


> I'll not engage in an argument over the preciousness of NZ's varying climate


Irrespective of the housing, I reserve the right to correct your proposition that Christchurch and Auckland climates are similar (for anyone reading from overseas), when in reality they are like chalk and cheese  I didn't mean to sound argumentative. Sorry about that.


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## Kimbella

inhamilton said:


> Irrespective of the housing, I reserve the right to correct your proposition that Christchurch and Auckland climates are similar (for anyone reading from overseas), when in reality they are like chalk and cheese  I didn't mean to sound argumentative. Sorry about that.


No arguments as well, but we have to be honest with people moving here because it's a HUGE deal. I'll just reserve the right to propose that to someone coming from North American housing standards, the difference between 10 degrees outside will matter little due to the ambient temperature inside being at least 15 degrees (or more) colder than what they'll have ever experienced *inside* a home they're living in. Once you reach the below 60F inside threshold, it doesn't matter wtfrak the outside temp is!


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