# Can I get SSN in Canada?



## quincy (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm born in the US but have lived in Canada nearly 40 years, since a child, and never had a SSN. Is it possible to get one without going to the US? Can it be done at a consulate or is the service only for children being registered as US citizens?
Thanks.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

I suggest you should contact Service Canada to find out:
Who can apply for a SIN?

(I asume your question is about a Social Insurance Numer, SIN? In the US this is called a SSN (social security number).


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

quincy said:


> I'm born in the US but have lived in Canada nearly 40 years, since a child, and never had a SSN. Is it possible to get one without going to the US? Can it be done at a consulate or is the service only for children being registered as US citizens?
> Thanks.


If you really mean a US SSN (Social Security Number) you should be careful you don't open a can of worms in regards to filing US tax returns (assuming you don't do so).


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## G-Mo (Aug 17, 2011)

I think they want to get a US SSN.


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## Deckard1138 (Oct 24, 2011)

I think they DON'T want to get an SSN unless there is an absolutely good reason to have one. Otherwise it's like putting a GPS beacon on your head to make it easier for the US authorities to track you down.


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## quincy (Oct 25, 2011)

Deckard1138 said:


> I think they DON'T want to get an SSN unless there is an absolutely good reason to have one. Otherwise it's like putting a GPS beacon on your head to make it easier for the US authorities to track you down.


I do mean a US SSN. I was wondering in case I decide to renounce my citizenship. I may decide to send in all of the tax forms/FBARs and renounce. I'm still debating this. I would like to wait and see if there will be some concessions made to dual citizens in Canada. I'm just trying to find out what I'll have to do if I'm forced to get one in the future.


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## Deckard1138 (Oct 24, 2011)

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html

An ITIN should be all you need to submit the required forms. Even if you don't apply for one they'll assign one to you anyway, though this might cause a small delay in processing. My sister just received her ITIN notification letter last week.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2011)

quincy said:


> I'm born in the US but have lived in Canada nearly 40 years, since a child, and never had a SSN. Is it possible to get one without going to the US? Can it be done at a consulate or is the service only for children being registered as US citizens?
> Thanks.


If you wish to file a tax return and are a US citizen, you must get a SSN. I just did this with my son a week ago. Do you have documentation that your are a USC? I would start from there. An ITIN is for foreigners. 

You cannot apply for a SSN in Canada, And since you are over 12 years of age  you must appear in person at the closest SSN - here is a link to those offices:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foreign/canada.ht

It is free. Hopefully you live in a border town. Let me know if I can be of more help. Good luck!


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## quincy (Oct 25, 2011)

nobledreamer said:


> If you wish to file a tax return and are a US citizen, you must get a SSN. I just did this with my son a week ago. Do you have documentation that your are a USC? I would start from there. An ITIN is for foreigners.
> 
> You cannot apply for a SSN in Canada, And since you are over 12 years of age  you must appear in person at the closest SSN - here is a link to those offices:
> http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foreign/canada.ht
> ...


Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. I have a birth certificate but no other US ID. I feel pretty torn about what to do. I know I'm not on the radar, have no need to go to the US, so could avoid ever going there again if I had to, but I'm not sure how invasive the questioning from the banks may become. I know the Bank Act as it is now, ensures everyone a deposit account and citizenship is not required as ID. I don't think it applies to investment accounts. If for some reason I am identified as USC, I could lose my ability to invest if I refuse to sign a waiver. Could make retirement difficult.

I know a few years ago, my dad wanted me to go on his TD Waterhouse account as power of attorney. For some strange reason, my father told the rep I was a dual citizen (she hadn't asked anything about it and we had completed everything at that point) She said that she would need my SSN and I had to sign a waiver for the IRS. I said I didn't have a SSN and I wouldn't sign a waiver anyway. So she said I couldn't be power of attorney for my dad and we ripped up the papers. 

Guess is was wondering about the SSN application as I try to strategize my approach to this mess. Thanks for your help.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2011)

quincy said:


> If for some reason I am identified as USC, I could lose my ability to invest if I refuse to sign a waiver. Could make retirement difficult.


I'm no lawyer nor expert on Canadian banking laws. Also I don't know if retirement savings accounts are governed differently from regular (chequing, savings) accounts. However I did read the letter that TD Bank sent to IRS over the summer, complaining about the way FATCA is set up and suggesting some more sensible ways to do it. That letter mentioned, if I interpret what they said correctly (wording was about as clear as an IRS instruction manual:spit in Canada if a bank refuses to open an account for a Canadian citizen resident in Canada, and that citizen complains, the bank gets hit with a $200,000 fine. Per incident. Hence TD Bank isn't pleased about FATCA/IRS wanting them to refuse to open an account for someone who runs afoul of IRS or FATCA regs. It puts TD Bank and all banks between a rock and a very hard place, unless our government turns treasonous weasel and changes the banking laws to please the IRS. In which case the next federal election campaign will be LOTS of fun, almost like watching a fireworks warehouse go up in flames.

If you are a Canadian citizen or, I think, even resident, and your bank refuses to open an account for you, they need a really good reason, and what the IRS wants won't cut it under current banking legislation. At least that's my understanding.

For any bank to claim to be doing this because of the Canada-US Tax Treaty would be in contravention of so many clauses in that treaty I'm not sure I could get an account count.:ranger: That isn't any excuse for them either.

There are countries where US-born persons are being denied bank accounts, but as far as I know Canada isn't one of them, because we have a Charter that prohibits any discrimination against Canadians on the basis of national origin (and that includes place of birth). That article can be set aside under the Notwithstanding Clause but it would take a vote of Parliament to do that, and again, the fireworks display that would trigger could be fun to watch, for those of us political junkies with a morbid sense of curiosity.

As Deckard said, don't place a GPS beacon on top of your head if that's the only reason you have for doing it. Not good enough reason.

On the subject of the bank identifying you, everything I've seen so far indicates the question, if it comes, will be "are you a US citizen " not "where were you born." That last question would be a clear violation of Article 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (the first one wouldn't be if it's worded that way). Depending on your situation and your intention when you became a Canadian, and especially if you've got no other US ID and have never asked for a US passport, I leave it to you to figure out how you can or should answer the citizenship question and what you think the likelihood is that if you don't answer the question the way the IRS thinks you ought to answer it, they have a hope in hades of ever finding that out or prosecuting a perjury charge in Canada (which is where they'd have to argue the case, not in the US). 

I'm not giving you any advice here; I'm merely pointing out some options to contemplate.


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