# Expats in Guadalajara



## synthia

It depends on what you mean by the 'San Francisco of Mexico' description. My understanding is that it refers to the large gay community in the city.


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## otown

*Been here 2 months...ready to leave*

I am learning Spanish (3 lessons a week), but with the little I know, I'm seriously stunted. I know almost no other gringos and, although many people here know English, they are hesitant to use it. I do not blame them, as I am the one responsible for learning the host country's language. But after two months of serious immersion, I am quite lonely and ready to go home. Also do not like my living arrangement, which was so difficult for me to find, I cannot imagine trying to find another. I knew I'd have a hard time without Spanish, but I'm making a serious effort, yet not finding many people willing to meet me halfway.

Love to get together with anyone out there...be able to understand the conversation for a bit....maybe talk a little...


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome to the forum. Perhaps typing in English and reading other posts will help. If not, hop on the bus and visit Ajijic and Chapala on a weekend; you'll bump into a lot of expats there.
On the other hand, the very purpose of 'total immersion' is to prevent you from speaking your mother tongue and to force you to think and speak in Spanish. It isn't easy, but it does work. Frequently, when one feels they are really frustrated and at the breaking point, they are really just about to reach another plateau. Yes, languages are learned in 'plateaus' and not in a long gradual process. As you have probably already discovered, there are many times that 'the light just comes on' solving a certain problem which opens up a whole new part of the language. First, you learn some nouns, then some verbs and are still talking like Tarzan's monkey. Then, after learning to conjugate some common nouns, you begin to sound like Tarzan himself. Then, making sentences suddenly becomes possible and you can feel comfortable in restaurants and stores. Conversational ability is beginning to arise and, before long, you'll even be able to use the phone in Spanish. From there on, it is more conjugations, more vocabulary and more practice. Don't give up.


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## otown

RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome to the forum. Perhaps typing in English and reading other posts will help. If not, hop on the bus and visit Ajijic and Chapala on a weekend; you'll bump into a lot of expats there.
> On the other hand, the very purpose of 'total immersion' is to prevent you from speaking your mother tongue and to force you to think and speak in Spanish. It isn't easy, but it does work. Frequently, when one feels they are really frustrated and at the breaking point, they are really just about to reach another plateau. Yes, languages are learned in 'plateaus' and not in a long gradual process. As you have probably already discovered, there are many times that 'the light just comes on' solving a certain problem which opens up a whole new part of the language. First, you learn some nouns, then some verbs and are still talking like Tarzan's monkey. Then, after learning to conjugate some common nouns, you begin to sound like Tarzan himself. Then, making sentences suddenly becomes possible and you can feel comfortable in restaurants and stores. Conversational ability is beginning to arise and, before long, you'll even be able to use the phone in Spanish. From there on, it is more conjugations, more vocabulary and more practice. Don't give up.


Thanks for the welcome. I highly appreciate the purpose of immersion living; however, friends are important, too! Maybe a lingual breakthrough is coming, and I am considering other places in Mx, but this loneliness is difficult. Miss having friends. This would be much easier were I in a more conducive environment. I live in a house w/many others (nobody speaks English), but I'm pretty sick of em, and not sure where to meet more people. As well, I feel they've tried hard to connect with me, but this language barrier prevents us from getting off the ground. Yes, I know I cannot expect the world in a day, but anybody's in a better mood (and generally a more tolerable person) when they have *some* social contact with people they can understand and who can understand them. Right??

I know, I know....keeping my head up....just hard.


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## Steve & Wheezy

Otown, sounds like your head is hurting running into that brick wall, RV is right, once in a while you need a little break. Try taking the weekend off, jump on a bus and try out Chapala & Ajijic, nice break and the folks down there sound pretty friendly and the scenery, just seen pictures, but can't wait to come down. Find a bar, football season is starting, watch NFL even if it is exhibition, it's still american football, while we've screwed up about everything else, we still know how football is supposed to be played. No Futbal, football. Wife and I are taking 2 Spanish classes a week and it gets tough, I wasn't that good at it when I went through school 40 years ago, can't imagine trying to do it on site, total immersion. I'd probably starve to death. No, second thought, that wouldn't happen, but probably be frantic looking for real toilet paper and a greasy cheeseburger. Relax, have some fun, kinda ugly NOB right now too. Go meet RV and some of the rest on this website. Buy em all a beer, they deserve it for answering all our dumb questions from non residents who just wish we were down there bothering them in person. If anything from up here NOB would help just let me know, I'll box it up and send it to you.
Mucho gusto, me amigo, hasta luego. Steve & Wheezy


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## otown

Yes, banging my head against the wall, I am.

I will check out those places, indeed.
Also more than happy to buy some beers.
Where and when?!

Thx for the kind words.


best,
o


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## RVGRINGO

An excellent start might be to attend Open Circle, at the Lake Chapala Society, Ajijic, side entrance, 10 AM every Sunday morning. There will be coffee, tea, sandwiches, a speaker and then most folks head off in groups for brunch at various area restaurants. You'll meet lots of old expats and there are always a few new ones, as well as visitors. We are usually there and when you introduce yourself, you'll probably find us. If you want to spend the whole weekend, come on Saturday, find a room and go to the casino, Tom's Bar, or the Music Box, or disco in Ajijic. You will find both young and old there. During the day, wander the malecon in Chapala and eat seafood at the restaurants on the pier at the east end or sip a beer at the Beer Garden in the center. There will probably be entertainment on the malecon.


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## Toblerone

I have been living and working in Guadalajara area for a short time. So far not met any other expats. Glad to catch up with someone to have a beer and exchange our experiences.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Toblerone. They are there but they are spread out within a population of many millions. If you get desperate for expats, visit Ajijic or Chapala and tour the restaurants.


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## eriver90

Otown I will be moving down to GDL from San Francisco and I do not know anyone there, so definitely looking to make friends.


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## Dmex

*Amsoc*



otown said:


> I am learning Spanish (3 lessons a week), but with the little I know, I'm seriously stunted. I know almost no other gringos and, although many people here know English, they are hesitant to use it. I do not blame them, as I am the one responsible for learning the host country's language. But after two months of serious immersion, I am quite lonely and ready to go home. Also do not like my living arrangement, which was so difficult for me to find, I cannot imagine trying to find another. I knew I'd have a hard time without Spanish, but I'm making a serious effort, yet not finding many people willing to meet me halfway.
> 
> Love to get together with anyone out there...be able to understand the conversation for a bit....maybe talk a little...


You might try going to an Amsoc meeting. That is the American Society of Jalsico located on Av. San Francisco in Chapalita. You are sure to meet English speakers there. Most are retired Americans. Google: "American Society of Jalsico" to get info on their activities.

Dmex


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## JacqiS

*What a Great Idea!*

I, too, have been getting the odd attack of homesickness after 2 1/2 months here in Guadalajara. My usual remedy is to haul out the Magic Jack and make a few homeward bound calls. :ranger: Unfortunately I can usually hear my callees better than they can hear me, as the quality of the voice transmission is dependent on the quality of the internet connection and it's not always what it could be. So calling home is hard on the home folk and the conversations are mostly "What? I can't hear you."
When asked how MY Spanish is coming along, I usually say "cada dia mas" , but it IS occasionally nice to escape the sensation of being a semi-literate 3 year old and habla the native tongue. If I may ask, since I will be on foot from the bus stop, how do I find/identify the Lake Chapala Society this coming Sunday? :confused2: Is there a big sign? Do I need the address? Will I need to honor my current knee issues by taking another bus from the main bus stop (i.e., how far is it from the bus stop?) And are you still meeting each Sunday? The post to which I am responding is a bit dated.
I am delighted in advance to meet you all! How wonderful to have some more new friends! 



RVGRINGO said:


> An excellent start might be to attend Open Circle, at the Lake Chapala Society, Ajijic, side entrance, 10 AM every Sunday morning. There will be coffee, tea, sandwiches, a speaker and then most folks head off in groups for brunch at various area restaurants. You'll meet lots of old expats and there are always a few new ones, as well as visitors. We are usually there and when you introduce yourself, you'll probably find us. If you want to spend the whole weekend, come on Saturday, find a room and go to the casino, Tom's Bar, or the Music Box, or disco in Ajijic. You will find both young and old there. During the day, wander the malecon in Chapala and eat seafood at the restaurants on the pier at the east end or sip a beer at the Beer Garden in the center. There will probably be entertainment on the malecon.


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## RVGRINGO

From the Guadalajara bus station on Calle Los Angeles, purchase a ticket for Ajijic Directo. If the timing isn't right, you can take the bus to Chapala and then the local bus, or taxi, to Ajijic.
In Ajijic, you can get off at the corner of Colon and the highway (at Plaza Montaña). Cross the street and walk down hill, toward the lake, about four very short blocks. Turn left on 16 de Septiembre and walk one block east. You will find the Lake Chapala Society (LCS) on the corner. However the gate on the corner is closed on Sunday, so you will have to walk half a block toward the lake to find the side gate open. Coffee and sandwiches are available at 10 AM and the talk starts at about 10:30, lasting until 11:30. Here's a link to a map of Ajijic:
Map of downtown Ajijic - click here for downloadable pdf version : Pictures of Mexico

If that is too much walking for your knee, take the bus to Chapala and there are taxi stands by the front door of the station. Just ask for the Lake Chapala Society, 16 de Septiembre, Ajijic.


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## JacqiS

thank you thank you!


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## Thom1955

synthia said:


> It depends on what you mean by the 'San Francisco of Mexico' description. My understanding is that it refers to the large gay community in the city.


What is the gay life like in GDL? My partner (A Mexican citizen from Mazatlan and I (from US (Seattle))) are strongly considering a move to GDL so he can go to school and I will base myself in LA and commute weekly (I'm a flight attendant) - 

What area of GDL is best for gay couples to live in - I hear GDL is very gay friendly - 

so, any information you can provide is great

fyi - we are legally married in the State of Massachusetts (my home state) and wondering if GDL recognizes these marriages for immigration - we understand if we marry in Mexico City, the country has to recognize the marriage for all benefits, including immigration to Mexico, but, you have to be a resident of MEX DF - 

Gracias!!! Tom


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## TundraGreen

Thom1955 said:


> What area of GDL is best for gay couples to live in - I hear GDL is very gay friendly -


It is an conundrum. In many ways Gdl is very Catholic/Conservative. At the same time it has a large gay community. There is a gay night club on Hidalgo near Federalismo. Another a few blocks to the east on Lopez Cotilla. Probably lots of others I don't know about. You see lots of gay couples, men and women occasionally, in the area bounded by Hidalgo on the north, Lopez Cotilla on the south, Enrique Diaz De Leon on the west, and Alcalde on the east. All of the these locations are in Guadalajara Centro. I am not a member of the gay community and only know what I see on the street. You could probably learn much more from a member of the community. Good luck.

Memo


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## rowleyda

*Moving from the States to Guadalajara*

Hello everyone.

I was having problems trying to find how to post something and not just reply. 

I need some help and would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give me. I live in SLC, UT and want to move to the Guadalajara area. I am retired and want and need a change. I've read many wonderful accounts of this city in Mexico and the surrounding area. I'm planning on moving either in six month, or no later than one year. 

I've never lived any where other than the US and I feel that it is time to get out and discover other worlds -- I'm a little tired of the one I'm in. 

Any information that you can shed or help me in any way, would be appreciated. 

I will be alone (I do have 3 cats) as I am divorced. It is a bit scary -- this is a big move. I've given myself ample time to make all the arrangements that will be needed. I truly am green at this point. I want to live in an area where I don't have to pay the high prices for everything that you do in the US. I also want new experiences and to discover different cultures.

Thanks for any help.

Deb


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## TundraGreen

Indeed, Guadalajara is a wonderful city with a nice mix of climate and urban amenities. However, before you go too far down the path of moving here or any place else new, you really must start with a few visits. Come for a week or two. If you like what you see, come back for a month. When you get ready to move, rent for a couple of years and keep your options open back in the states. I have several friends who sold everything and moved to Latin America (Mexico and Panama) forever, only to discover after a few months that it was not what they expected. Both are back in the states and both had a rough time extricating themselves from the abortive change of country. Lots of people have the opposite experience and never want to go back, but you really can't know which category you will be in, until you have lived here for awhile.


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## rowleyda

*Thanks*

TundraGreen, thank you for this wise information. That is exactly what I am planning on doing -- visiting first and seeing for myself, first hand, what it is like. I have read a lot about Guadalajara and have been impressed with what I have read in addition to meeting some wonderful people who had lived there for many years. They loved the city. I am also studying Spanish, which I understand is imperative. 

I also read that it is the "San Francisco of Mexico." I worked and lived in San Francisco for my of my adult life and it is one of America's jewels. I get the impression that Guadalajara is one of Mexico's. 

I also realize that perfection does not exist, but I have grown so weary and, at times, disheartened, with American culture, that I believe I need to see another part of the world and experience its culture and way of life. "There is life out there." It surprises me that more people, particularly retirees, and those on fixed incomes, don't leave the states. It is becoming more and more expensive along with certain elements that I'm having a hard time coping with. 

I will take all the precationary steps, but I just have this strange feeling that this is something that I need and will prove to be a good experience. If it isn't, then I can always come back to the States. 

Thank you for this information. It was kind of you to respond on News Year's Eve.

Happy New Year!
Debbie


TundraGreen said:


> Indeed, Guadalajara is a wonderful city with a nice mix of climate and urban amenities. However, before you go too far down the path of moving here or any place else new, you really must start with a few visits. Come for a week or two. If you like what you see, come back for a month. When you get ready to move, rent for a couple of years and keep your options open back in the states. I have several friends who sold everything and moved to Latin America (Mexico and Panama) forever, only to discover after a few months that it was not what they expected. Both are back in the states and both had a rough time extricating themselves from the abortive change of country. Lots of people have the opposite experience and never want to go back, but you really can't know which category you will be in, until you have lived here for awhile.


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## TundraGreen

What does it say about us that we are on the computer on New Years Eve.

I lived in San Francisco for many, many years before landing in Guadalajara so I can easily compare them. Although the population to the two metropolitan areas are roughly comparable, 5 M in Gdl vs 7 M in SF, the cities are very different. I like to tell people that Gdl is really a very small city with a lot of people. It is not a cosmopolitan, international city in the way that San Francisco is. It does not have the diverse population, nor the outstanding restaurants, nor the world class opera. However, there are many ways that it beats SF hands down. And they tend to be the things that are important in every day life. The bus system is great and really makes driving in the city unnecessary for those willing to ride the buses. With a judicious choice of location it is possible to walk to a mercado, or several, and all the shops one needs for every day life. And of course the climate is much warmer and when it does rain here it generally lasts only a few hours. And finally of course it is a much more affordable city with a living costs a third of those of the US and property costs 10% of those in San Francisco. A house comparable to my Gdl house would cost at least 10 times as much in SF. 

Memo


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Rouleyda. Guadalajara is a fine city with an excellent climate, just north of Lake Chapala and its large concentration of expats from the USA, Canada and elsewhere, in case you seek the company of others who have 'gone before'.
Note that you will need to qualify for a visa, so bring all of your documentation, and also note that Mexico only allows you to bring two pets per person, with up to date veterinary documentation and certification that they are 'free of internal and external parasites'.


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## rowleyda

*I Lived in San Francisco for Years*

We both probably felt last night that we had our day, once upon a time, and it is gone and now there are more serious things to do and contemplate. 

I too lived for many years in San Francisco and worked in the financial district. I regret leaving in many ways. Definitely, San Francisco is an international city and has much to offer, but as you said, it does have its drawbacks. I read not to long ago that only 10% - 15% of the residents can afford to buy a house now...so people move to the suburbs so they can buy. San Francisco has lost something, however. It is now an enclave for the very wealthy, and that which made it famous (i.e., quaint ethnic neighborhoods, etc.) is dying. 

The more I hear about Guadalajara, the more intriguing it sounds. Buses that run on time, a warm climate, and a lower cost of living is all appealing to me.

I wish I could leave now!

Deb




TundraGreen said:


> What does it say about us that we are on the computer on New Years Eve.
> 
> I lived in San Francisco for many, many years before landing in Guadalajara so I can easily compare them. Although the population to the two metropolitan areas are roughly comparable, 5 M in Gdl vs 7 M in SF, the cities are very different. I like to tell people that Gdl is really a very small city with a lot of people. It is not a cosmopolitan, international city in the way that San Francisco is. It does not have the diverse population, nor the outstanding restaurants, nor the world class opera. However, there are many ways that it beats SF hands down. And they tend to be the things that are important in every day life. The bus system is great and really makes driving in the city unnecessary for those willing to ride the buses. With a judicious choice of location it is possible to walk to a mercado, or several, and all the shops one needs for every day life. And of course the climate is much warmer and when it does rain here it generally lasts only a few hours. And finally of course it is a much more affordable city with a living costs a third of those of the US and property costs 10% of those in San Francisco. A house comparable to my Gdl house would cost at least 10 times as much in SF.
> 
> Memo


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## rowleyda

*Pets*

Thank you for responding to me. I've been hearing about Lake Chapala, but the city of Guadalajara sounds more to my liking. I will check both areas out. That is sad about only bringing in 2 pets. One of my cats is very old, and I don't think he has much time left. I love animals, but I can understand Mexico's policy on pets.

Thanks, Deb


RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome, Rouleyda. Guadalajara is a fine city with an excellent climate, just north of Lake Chapala and its large concentration of expats from the USA, Canada and elsewhere, in case you seek the company of others who have 'gone before'.
> Note that you will need to qualify for a visa, so bring all of your documentation, and also note that Mexico only allows you to bring two pets per person, with up to date veterinary documentation and certification that they are 'free of internal and external parasites'.


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## rowleyda

How much is a good medical insurance in Mexico? 

Thanks, 
Deb


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## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> How much is a good medical insurance in Mexico?
> 
> Thanks,
> Deb


IMSS (Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social) is about $3300 pesos per year. This is the Mexican national health care plan. There are also private plans available. I don't know the cost of them.

Memo


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## rowleyda

*Health Insurance*

That's a good question and I should have been more specific. I did read a little about the IMSS. I would say a decent health insurance pays around 80% for doctor's visits and medical procedures, with a 20% co-pay. That is roughly what I pay. If I figured it out correction $3300 pesos computes out to be around $250/yr. Is that right? That is amazingly cheap. It is too good to be true. Also, would the IMSS include drug coverage or would you have to buy an additional policy? 

I have read that one of the reasons that some Americans say to ______ with US and take off for Mexico is because of the high costs in health care. I know there is greed everywhere, human nature being what it is, but what is happening in this country is getting scary. 

I really appreciate all the help you have given me, TundraGreen. Also, roughly, what would a small house cost to rent in and around the Guadalajara area? I'm at that point where I am collecting the facts. Also, I am planning a trip to Guadalajara this summer. I think that will put me in a better position to find the right place. I have always liked city life -- and having access to all the amenities Guadalajara provides is appealing to me. 

Thanks, Deb



TundraGreen said:


> IMSS (Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social) is about $3300 pesos per year. This is the Mexican national health care plan. There are also private plans available. I don't know the cost of them.
> 
> Memo


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## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> That's a good question and I should have been more specific. I did read a little about the IMSS. I would say a decent health insurance pays around 80% for doctor's visits and medical procedures, with a 20% co-pay. That is roughly what I pay. If I figured it out correction $3300 pesos computes out to be around $250/yr. Is that right? That is amazingly cheap. It is too good to be true. Also, would the IMSS include drug coverage or would you have to buy an additional policy?
> [...]
> Thanks, Deb


I believe there are no copays with IMSS. There are some things that are not covered (ex: cosmetic surgery, glasses) and there are some restrictions when you start. I haven't had to use any drugs so I don't know how that works. I have heard that they sometimes don't have needed drugs and people buy them on their own. I suppose that implies that the drugs are free if they are available. Your conversion is correct. It is pretty inexpensive compared to US medical costs. Maybe others have had more experience using it. I have have only had my teeth cleaned and it was pretty simple. No appointment, no copay, no paperwork, just wait 15 minutes, teeth cleaned, then out the door.


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## Gupi

This isn't specific to Guadalajara, but I recently got a quote for private health insurance in Mérida, Yucatán. I'm 49, healthy, and female. I was quoted US $866/year for the premiums, which includes:


US $400 deductible per incident
No deductible applies to accidents--they start paying right away. Also, if you're hospitalized for more than 24 hrs, you don't have to pay the deductible.
10% copay
US $50k accident coverage outside MX
no yearly or lifetime limit, if I understood correctly
2 house calls/year

The insurance (Allianz) is accepted by the good private hospitals in Mérida.

Insurance and health care costs vary depending on location. I was told the same plan would be more expensive in Cancún. so it could easily be more expensive in Guadalajara.


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## RVGRINGO

Premiums also increase with age and most 'seniors' find it impossible to get coverage. If they already had it at a younger age, as in your case, it can become prohibitively expensive in later years.


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## Gupi

I agree that if I get Mexican insurance, premiums will increase as I age, but I can't see them increasing so much that they would equal the amounts I'm paying in the US. 

I'm currently spending almost 4 times as much in the US for less coverage. My insurance premiums (I'm self-employed) cost $3336/yr and I have a $5000 deductible, 20% copay, and limited choice of doctors. I have to drive 1.5 hours for some specialists because my "insurance" plan doesn't cover any of the local ones. I'm currently paying out of pocket for one doctor because the only covered one in my area was rude and inept. 

As a self-employed person, I have a grand total of two insurance companies to choose from in my state, and both of them restrict who I can see and have bad customer service reputations.

I recently estimated that if I had spent the last year in Mérida instead of the US, I would have saved $5600 in insurance and health care costs. That's just the savings for one year. So yes, my health costs will increase as I age, but I like to think that if I can invest a lot of the money that I'm currently spending on doctors and insurance, I'll have a nice fund later on for self-insurance if it becomes necessary.

For what it's worth, I don't trust Medicare or similar programs to be functioning well by the time I need them, and I'm skeptical that the current attempts at US health insurance reform will achieve much. Like rowleyda suggested, health care costs are one of the main reasons I'm thinking of leaving the US.


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## RVGRINGO

You are absolutely correct, if you compare the two countries. However, the systems are quite different, so all you can really compare is bottom line and quality of care. We think both are better in Mexico, if you choose your providers carefully.


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## Gupi

rowleyda said:


> Also, roughly, what would a small house cost to rent in and around the Guadalajara area?


You might check Vivastreet.com.mx for that. There appear to be new houses in fraccionamientos at the edge of town renting for as little as $1000 MXN (US $82/month) and many modest but decent-seeming (to me) homes for around US $200/mo. If you're willing to pay more, here's a random selection:

$270: new-looking 3 BR house in Zapopan, in gated coto (like a mini-subdivision--I don't know how you say it in English), 2.5 baths, nice wooden cabinets and built-ins under the stairs

$278: 3 BR, 2 baths near light train station, "7 minutes to downtown"

$1060/mo gets you a 1-BR house in the Santa Anita golf club with tall ceilings and a classy-looking kitchen.

If GDL is like Mérida, for many rentals you have to supply the refrigerator and stove.


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## TundraGreen

Some friends just rented a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house with three levels, one service patio and two other patios for $4200 pesos/month ($340). It is located about a 10 minute walk from the Guadalajara Catedral and a 7 minute walk from Mercado Alcalde.

Memo


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## TamiJ

We rent a 3-bedroom apartment in Zapopan which is roughly about $300 USD a month. Our apartment is a good size, too. When we went apartment hunting, I was discouraged with the small kitchens and minimal counter space, but if you look really hard, there are good rentals out there.


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## teresita7

Also - closer to home - have you tried couchsurfing? the original purpose of the network is to provide a short-term place to stay for travelers, but it's a social networking site as well. there are some english speakers there - people who are eager to connect and meet people from other countries. a pretty large GDL community, if I remember correctly. Worth a check.


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## rowleyda

When you think of $250 per year -- that is far, far less than any insurance policy in the US -- you couldn't get one for that amount -- doesn't exist. So many people are simply being looted in the States. For some on fixed incomes, much of their money is spent just taking necessary drugs and doctors appointments. There has got to be a better way. So, that is why I'm leaving. 

Thanks for the info.

Deb


TundraGreen said:


> I believe there are no copays with IMSS. There are some things that are not covered (ex: cosmetic surgery, glasses) and there are some restrictions when you start. I haven't had to use any drugs so I don't know how that works. I have heard that they sometimes don't have needed drugs and people buy them on their own. I suppose that implies that the drugs are free if they are available. Your conversion is correct. It is pretty inexpensive compared to US medical costs. Maybe others have had more experience using it. I have have only had my teeth cleaned and it was pretty simple. No appointment, no copay, no paperwork, just wait 15 minutes, teeth cleaned, then out the door.


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## rowleyda

Tundragreen (and everyone else), what are the costs for rentals, preferably a small home, in and around the Guadalajara area. I've heard a lot about Lake Chapala and Aijic. Are these areas reasonable or are they real expensive?

Thanks,
Debra


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## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> Tundragreen (and everyone else), what are the costs for rentals, preferably a small home, in and around the Guadalajara area. I've heard a lot about Lake Chapala and Aijic. Are these areas reasonable or are they real expensive?
> 
> Thanks,
> Debra


The Guadalajara metropolitan area includes Guadalajara, Zapopan, Tlaquepaque, Tonala, El Salto and Tlajomulco. In the nicer more central parts of this area, you can rent a two or three bedroom house for around $4000 - $5000 pesos/mo ($300 - $375/mo US). In the outskirts there are fraccionamientos (housing developments) where it might be cheaper. Lake Chapala and its communities like Chapala, Ajijic, Jocotopec are not part of the Guadalajara Metropolitan area although they are only an hour away by bus or car. I am not personally familiar with prices in those areas. However, Ajijic in particular is very popular with ex-pats and I believe that has made it more expensive than areas with fewer foreigners.

Memo


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## rowleyda

Health care is one of the reasons, among many others, why I am leaving the US to move to Mexico. I agree with you about the medical insurance in the US being 4 times more expensive than in Mexico. 

Seriously, I don't understand why there isn't a stampede of people on social security and fixed incomes galloping into Mexico. The weather is great too! It's not just health care, but the cost of living is far less expensive.

Here is a question. If more and more people from the US move to Mexico, will this harm the Mexican people financially or will it help their economy? It really could go both ways.

Thanks,
Deb


Gupi said:


> I agree that if I get Mexican insurance, premiums will increase as I age, but I can't see them increasing so much that they would equal the amounts I'm paying in the US.
> 
> I'm currently spending almost 4 times as much in the US for less coverage. My insurance premiums (I'm self-employed) cost $3336/yr and I have a $5000 deductible, 20% copay, and limited choice of doctors. I have to drive 1.5 hours for some specialists because my "insurance" plan doesn't cover any of the local ones. I'm currently paying out of pocket for one doctor because the only covered one in my area was rude and inept.
> 
> As a self-employed person, I have a grand total of two insurance companies to choose from in my state, and both of them restrict who I can see and have bad customer service reputations.
> 
> I recently estimated that if I had spent the last year in Mérida instead of the US, I would have saved $5600 in insurance and health care costs. That's just the savings for one year. So yes, my health costs will increase as I age, but I like to think that if I can invest a lot of the money that I'm currently spending on doctors and insurance, I'll have a nice fund later on for self-insurance if it becomes necessary.
> 
> For what it's worth, I don't trust Medicare or similar programs to be functioning well by the time I need them, and I'm skeptical that the current attempts at US health insurance reform will achieve much. Like rowleyda suggested, health care costs are one of the main reasons I'm thinking of leaving the US.


----------



## rowleyda

To rent a three bedroom house in Salt Lake would be around $2,500+ in the more affluent areas and cheaper in other areas. In Park City and the ski resorts you would pay several thousand a month. The areas you mentioned sound nice, but I really want to live in the city of Guadalajara. I'm used to that type of lifestyle, and I like the hustle and bustle. 

Either in June or July I'll be able to see all this -- I can't wait. 

d



TundraGreen said:


> The Guadalajara metropolitan area includes Guadalajara, Zapopan, Tlaquepaque, Tonala, El Salto and Tlajomulco. In the nicer more central parts of this area, you can rent a two or three bedroom house for around $4000 - $5000 pesos/mo ($300 - $375/mo US). In the outskirts there are fraccionamientos (housing developments) where it might be cheaper. Lake Chapala and its communities like Chapala, Ajijic, Jocotopec are not part of the Guadalajara Metropolitan area although they are only an hour away by bus or car. I am not personally familiar with prices in those areas. However, Ajijic in particular is very popular with ex-pats and I believe that has made it more expensive than areas with fewer foreigners.
> 
> Memo


----------



## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> Health care is one of the reasons, among many others, why I am leaving the US to move to Mexico. I agree with you about the medical insurance in the US being 4 times more expensive than in Mexico.
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why there isn't a stampede of people on social security and fixed incomes galloping into Mexico. The weather is great too! It's not just health care, but the cost of living is far less expensive.
> 
> Here is a question. If more and more people from the US move to Mexico, will this harm the Mexican people financially or will it help their economy? It really could go both ways.
> 
> Thanks,
> Deb


You ask a very interesting question, and one that is of a type not usually considered on this forum so it is nice to see it. I will take a cut at my impressions on this subject. 

First of all, I think that currently there are too few extranjeros living in Mexico to have much of an impact on the overall economy. So my guess is that nationally we are having neither a positive nor negative effect overall. However, in areas where foreigners are concentrated, Ajijic, San Miguel de Allende and others, I suspect there are both positive and negative impacts. The foreigners presence leads to an increase in prices. This is hard on locals that have to pay the higher prices. But then many of the locals are on the receiving end of the higher prices. I actually think Mexico and the US could have a very symbiotic relationship. With Mexico providing needed labor in the US and the US providing needed capital in Mexico all fueled by immigration in both directions. At the moment there are enough Mexicans willing to move to the US that they provide a significant contribution to the labor market and the tax base. In the other direction I think there are too few moving south to significantly affect Mexico's tax base.

Another aspect is whether foreigners are having an impact on the culture of Mexico. Individually, I suspect not, however, the incursion of big international companies like Costco, Home Depot, and Walmart are clearly having a big impact on Mexico. Not long ago I wrote an essay on this subject which can be found at Walmart vs the Mercados

My two cents and worth just what you paid for it.

Memo


----------



## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> [...]
> but I really want to live in the city of Guadalajara. I'm used to that type of lifestyle, and I like the hustle and bustle.


I agree. Gdl is a nice city in that it has some of the hustle and bustle, while still being small enough, in Centro at least, to walk everywhere.

Memo


----------



## rowleyda

Sounds good to me. I would imagine that tourist areas like Cancun and other vacation spots would be more expensive than other areas. 

Thanks for this information.



Gupi said:


> This isn't specific to Guadalajara, but I recently got a quote for private health insurance in Mérida, Yucatán. I'm 49, healthy, and female. I was quoted US $866/year for the premiums, which includes:
> 
> 
> US $400 deductible per incident
> No deductible applies to accidents--they start paying right away. Also, if you're hospitalized for more than 24 hrs, you don't have to pay the deductible.
> 10% copay
> US $50k accident coverage outside MX
> no yearly or lifetime limit, if I understood correctly
> 2 house calls/year
> 
> The insurance (Allianz) is accepted by the good private hospitals in Mérida.
> 
> Insurance and health care costs vary depending on location. I was told the same plan would be more expensive in Cancún. so it could easily be more expensive in Guadalajara.


----------



## rowleyda

I couldn't agree with you more on all issues that you raised. I can't add anything more than what you said. You also answered my questions.

Thank you,
d




TundraGreen said:


> You ask a very interesting question, and one that is of a type not usually considered on this forum so it is nice to see it. I will take a cut at my impressions on this subject.
> 
> First of all, I think that currently there are too few extranjeros living in Mexico to have much of an impact on the overall economy. So my guess is that nationally we are having neither a positive nor negative effect overall. However, in areas where foreigners are concentrated, Ajijic, San Miguel de Allende and others, I suspect there are both positive and negative impacts. The foreigners presence leads to an increase in prices. This is hard on locals that have to pay the higher prices. But then many of the locals are on the receiving end of the higher prices. I actually think Mexico and the US could have a very symbiotic relationship. With Mexico providing needed labor in the US and the US providing needed capital in Mexico all fueled by immigration in both directions. At the moment there are enough Mexicans willing to move to the US that they provide a significant contribution to the labor market and the tax base. In the other direction I think there are too few moving south to significantly affect Mexico's tax base.
> 
> Another aspect is whether foreigners are having an impact on the culture of Mexico. Individually, I suspect not, however, the incursion of big international companies like Costco, Home Depot, and Walmart are clearly having a big impact on Mexico. Not long ago I wrote an essay on this subject which can be found at Walmart vs the Mercados
> 
> My two cents and worth just what you paid for it.
> 
> Memo


----------



## Capecodder

*Sports Bars in GDL?*

Hi There,
I'm new to the forum here, but was looking for some advice from any of the expats here in Guadalajara. With the NFL playoffs cranking up I was wondering if anyone knew of any good sports bars, or any bar that would show the NFL and have the english speaking broadcast? I know it may be wishful thinking hoping for the english broadcast in a bar here, but I guess you never know. Any suggestions for this exported Patriots fan are appreciated.
Thanks!


----------



## RVGRINGO

If you don't find a place in Guadalajara, try either Tom's Bar or Miche's in Ajijic. They are both expat locations & have multiple TVs.


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## rowleyda

They sounds like two places that would be great to call home. When I get to glj, I will definitely check them out!



RVGRINGO said:


> If you don't find a place in Guadalajara, try either Tom's Bar or Miche's in Ajijic. They are both expat locations & have multiple TVs.


----------



## rosfreed

if you get lonely, come to Mazatlan, all the people here speak English, so much that I complain I can't practice my spanish enough. You can have ****** life or Mexican life, and just pick which one you want to live today. Rents are cheap, shops are great, the weather is lovely....until June....then head up back to Lake Chapala for the summer. email me if you want more info, I love it here, but we do intend to summer in the mountains. You don't have to stay in one place!


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## dsuehurst

There is an American Society in Guadalajara. It is on Av. San Francisco 3332, Col, Chapalita Ph 31212395. We have a luncheon every Thursday, along with other activities. It was a life saver for me because I do not speak Spanish and have been very slow picking up the language. Lake Chapula is nice, but you do not have to drive all that way to find people you can talk to and have activities you can participate in. Give us a call and join in, I think you will like it.


----------



## TundraGreen

dsuehurst said:


> There is an American Society in Guadalajara. It is on Av. San Francisco 3332, Col, Chapalita Ph 31212395. We have a luncheon every Thursday, along with other activities. It was a life saver for me because I do not speak Spanish and have been very slow picking up the language. Lake Chapula is nice, but you do not have to drive all that way to find people you can talk to and have activities you can participate in. Give us a call and join in, I think you will like it.


I have been by the place on San Francisco a couple of times. I have to confess that the name of the group bothers me a little. While the term "American" in English nearly always refers to a citizen of the United States (of America), it can also refer to anyone from North or South America. And many citizens of Canada and Latin America resent the fact that US citizens have appropriated that term. I know there are "American" societies all over the world but using that term in Latin America seems insensitive to me. 

Am I being too politically corrrect? Has there ever been any discussion within the group about whether the name was a good idea?


----------



## RVGRINGO

Many would agree with you, but most of them can't pronounce 'estadounidenses'.


----------



## TundraGreen

RVGRINGO said:


> Many would agree with you, but most of them can't pronounce 'estadounidenses'.


I agree, that is part of the problem. There is no good word in English for a US citizen and even in Spanish it is awkward and not used much as near as I can tell.


----------



## rowleyda

Can someone give me information on the Tlaquepaque area?


----------



## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> Can someone give me information on the Tlaquepaque area?


Tlaquepaque is one of five or six cities that make up the Guadalajara Metropolitan area. On the ground it is hard to tell when you go from one city to the next. They all blend into a large urban area. Most of Tlaquepaque is residential with a large range of economic conditions. The central part of Tlaquepaque is a church and plaza adjacent to a pedestrian mall that is several blocks long. The mall is populated with very upscale shopping, a lot of expensive art stores and other types of high end shopping. The pedestrian mall is probably the only place in Guadalajara where you can consistently expect to see non-Mexicans on the street. It is very popular with tourists.


----------



## Artster

*A good site on Tlaquepaque*



rowleyda said:


> Can someone give me information on the Tlaquepaque area?


There is a nice site with general information on Tlaquepaque which is called 
Tlaquepaque-centro "Tlaquepaque Visitor's Guide". You should find it easily with a search. 
I live in Tlaquepaque so, feel free to call on me if you need more information.
Regards,


----------



## Artster

otown said:


> I am learning Spanish (3 lessons a week), but with the little I know, I'm seriously stunted. I know almost no other gringos and, although many people here know English, they are hesitant to use it. I do not blame them, as I am the one responsible for learning the host country's language. But after two months of serious immersion, I am quite lonely and ready to go home. Also do not like my living arrangement, which was so difficult for me to find, I cannot imagine trying to find another. I knew I'd have a hard time without Spanish, but I'm making a serious effort, yet not finding many people willing to meet me halfway.
> 
> Love to get together with anyone out there...be able to understand the conversation for a bit....maybe talk a little...


You should come over to San Pedro Tlaquepaque and join QDJ's Happy Hour! A little known fact about Tlaquepaque: it's small village feel has been attracting expats and now, there's a small local community. A lot of them get together at Quinta Don Jose's Happy Hour 5-6m daily. Good people, good drink, good conversation. Very friendly community, you walk everywhere and still, just a hop away from Guadalajara's everything.

Feel free to contact me if I can offer other info.


----------



## rowleyda

TundraGreen, thank you for that information. Tlaquepaque is definitely one of the places I will check out this coming summer. I've viewed many photos, and what I have seen, it looks like a vibrant area.


TundraGreen said:


> Tlaquepaque is one of five or six cities that make up the Guadalajara Metropolitan area. On the ground it is hard to tell when you go from one city to the next. They all blend into a large urban area. Most of Tlaquepaque is residential with a large range of economic conditions. The central part of Tlaquepaque is a church and plaza adjacent to a pedestrian mall that is several blocks long. The mall is populated with very upscale shopping, a lot of expensive art stores and other types of high end shopping. The pedestrian mall is probably the only place in Guadalajara where you can consistently expect to see non-Mexicans on the street. It is very popular with tourists.


----------



## rowleyda

Thank you Artster for telling me about the sites to visit. I will check them out this afternoon. I do have some other questions for you. How does one go about renting a place six months before you move? I would want a place first before I leave the states. What is required to rent a nice one or two bedroom place in Tlaquepaque? I'm looking forward to this move and can't wait until it becomes a reality. What are the rents in a nice, middle-class area? What would a small house cost to rent? Again, thank you for helping me out in this matter. Who would I contact?


Artster said:


> There is a nice site with general information on Tlaquepaque which is called
> Tlaquepaque-centro "Tlaquepaque Visitor's Guide". You should find it easily with a search.
> I live in Tlaquepaque so, feel free to call on me if you need more information.
> Regards,


----------



## rowleyda

Thank you TundraGreen for this information. I'm still in the exploration stages, but what little I know about Tlaquepaque so far leads me to believe that this might be the perfect place as there seems to be a lot of choices as to where to live and shop.


TundraGreen said:


> Tlaquepaque is one of five or six cities that make up the Guadalajara Metropolitan area. On the ground it is hard to tell when you go from one city to the next. They all blend into a large urban area. Most of Tlaquepaque is residential with a large range of economic conditions. The central part of Tlaquepaque is a church and plaza adjacent to a pedestrian mall that is several blocks long. The mall is populated with very upscale shopping, a lot of expensive art stores and other types of high end shopping. The pedestrian mall is probably the only place in Guadalajara where you can consistently expect to see non-Mexicans on the street. It is very popular with tourists.


----------



## TundraGreen

rowleyda said:


> Thank you Artster for telling me about the sites to visit. I will check them out this afternoon. I do have some other questions for you. How does one go about renting a place six months before you move? I would want a place first before I leave the states. What is required to rent a nice one or two bedroom place in Tlaquepaque? I'm looking forward to this move and can't wait until it becomes a reality. What are the rents in a nice, middle-class area? What would a small house cost to rent? Again, thank you for helping me out in this matter. Who would I contact?


You might want to think about finding a place to stay for a few weeks or a month first. Then find a place for six months after you get here and can look at them. Many rentals are not advertised. For some friends, I found a nice three bedroom two bath house in the central part of Guadalajara (not in Tlaquepaque) for $4200/month mxn (about $350 usd). It is a safe neighborhood, but probably not what someone fresh from the US would call a "middle-class" area. Another friend rented a two bedroom one bath apartment for about the same price that was in a more "middle-class" area. The house is very convenient to shopping, theaters, restaurants. The apartment was distant from the city center and not convenient to much. That is another trade-off to think about.

Incidentally, this is an urban setting. Neither the apartment nor the house had any yard around it. The house has one small service patio and two nice patios that are good for plants or outside dining or entertaining. The apartment had neither.


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## rowleyda

I think that is a good idea not to commit to anything for more than a month, at first. At that point, I can learn my way around and find those areas that are appealing to me. 

I love the idea of no yard, but just a patio. 

I'm really not sure what I mean exactly by middle-class because it means different things to different people. My main concern is living in an area that is safe and easily accessible to shops, stores, etc.


TundraGreen said:


> You might want to think about finding a place to stay for a few weeks or a month first. Then find a place for six months after you get here and can look at them. Many rentals are not advertised. For some friends, I found a nice three bedroom two bath house in the central part of Guadalajara (not in Tlaquepaque) for $4200/month mxn (about $350 usd). It is a safe neighborhood, but probably not what someone fresh from the US would call a "middle-class" area. Another friend rented a two bedroom one bath apartment for about the same price that was in a more "middle-class" area. The house is very convenient to shopping, theaters, restaurants. The apartment was distant from the city center and not convenient to much. That is another trade-off to think about.
> 
> Incidentally, this is an urban setting. Neither the apartment nor the house had any yard around it. The house has one small service patio and two nice patios that are good for plants or outside dining or entertaining. The apartment had neither.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Mexico is a world of neighborhoods, with the convenience of being able to walk to shops and stores within a couple of blocks. So, just find whatever attracts you and look for a 'se renta' sign in the window.


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## rowleyda

That is great advice, RVGRINGO, and that is exactly what I will do. Since I do not know anyone in Guadalajara and surrounding area, it is really the only way to find a place to live.


RVGRINGO said:


> Mexico is a world of neighborhoods, with the convenience of being able to walk to shops and stores within a couple of blocks. So, just find whatever attracts you and look for a 'se renta' sign in the window.


----------



## rowleyda

RVGRINGO, I have a couple questions for you. I have a small truck and I will have to drive from Salt Lake City to the Guadalajara area. Is there any problem with that? Is there a problem if you have cats and all the needed shot, etc. for them? Do people in Mexico have any problems with pets?


RVGRINGO said:


> Mexico is a world of neighborhoods, with the convenience of being able to walk to shops and stores within a couple of blocks. So, just find whatever attracts you and look for a 'se renta' sign in the window.


----------



## RVGRINGO

There is no problem, so long as your truck is small; like a pick-up. Of course, you will want to have secured parking wherever you stop at night, in either country. If the truck is a fancy newer model, it might attract the attention of carjackers. So, stay on the toll roads wherever possible and only drive in the daytime.
You are permitted no more than two pets. They must have current shot records and a very recent veterinarian's certification of good health and freedom from internal and external parasites.


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## rowleyda

It is just a small pick-up and nothing fancy. I will only drive during the day and stay on the toll roads. Thanks for all this information and answering all these questions. I know as time moves along, I will have more and more. I am planning on going to the Mexican consulate this week and start this process rolling.


RVGRINGO said:


> There is no problem, so long as your truck is small; like a pick-up. Of course, you will want to have secured parking wherever you stop at night, in either country. If the truck is a fancy newer model, it might attract the attention of carjackers. So, stay on the toll roads wherever possible and only drive in the daytime.
> You are permitted no more than two pets. They must have current shot records and a very recent veterinarian's certification of good health and freedom from internal and external parasites.


----------



## RVGRINGO

I don't see any advantage to be obtained by going to the consulate, besides the extra charge they apply....to their advantage. You can get your FMM and vehicle's temporary importation at the border, or for a bit extra, you can get the vehicle sticker online. You'll still have to deal with INM when you get here, either way.


----------



## rowleyda

Okay then it isn't necessary to go to the consulate and I don't need to spend any money if I don't have to. What are your experiences like living in Mexico -- I would think pretty good since you are there and not here? Also, is driving at night unsafe because the roads are not the best and the drivers are not as careful as in other places. I've had a couple of Mexicans tell me to be careful driving due to Mexican drivers. I guess no one would want to drive at night in a strange country. It could be dangerous if something happened to your vehicle -- you would be stranded -- it would be unsafe any where. Not a good thought at all. But, I've got to get there some way and get my vehicle there. In life there are always chances you've got to take. I was thinking of leaving at night in the States and hitting Mexico in the morning and hopefully getting to Guadalajara late in the day. This is a big move and there are many stresses and working out the logistics is an ordeal in and of itself. Thanks for all you help.


RVGRINGO said:


> I don't see any advantage to be obtained by going to the consulate, besides the extra charge they apply....to their advantage. You can get your FMM and vehicle's temporary importation at the border, or for a bit extra, you can get the vehicle sticker online. You'll still have to deal with INM when you get here, either way.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Don't rush your trip. In Mexico, you won't travel as fast as in the USA, so plan on an overnight stop between the border and Guadalajara. There is always construction, checkpoints, heavy traffic and other delays along the way. Yes, driving habits are different, so be very defensive and note that passing on the right is a common practice, though illegal, and always done by motorcycles and scooters, which may then turn left in front of you. Learn that a left signal can mean a left turn in the city but may indicate 'pass me' on the highway. Misunderstanding that can be fatal. Left turn rules are also different and the yellow light lasts just long enough to cause you to violate the red light, etc.


----------



## conklinwh

We try very hard not to be on the highway at night for a number of reasons including cows/horses in the road, large rocks that were put out as a warning and then left, some local drivers think they see better at night without lights, the lack of shoulders and often a big drop and because I don't really want to have an issue at night.
Another "quirk" to driving in Mexico(BTW the left blinker is one to be very careful with) is that two lane roads become four if there is a good shoulder, especially if a dotted line by the shoulder. It is expected that if you are being passed or if someone looks to be trying to pass coming the other way that you drive on the shoulder if that an option.
This doesn't always happen but tends to be very useful.


----------



## rowleyda

Thank you for that information, conklinwh. I certainly wouldn't want to have any kind of issue at night either. When in Mexico, there will be no night driving. There's got to be a Mexican motor vehicle manual some where around. I'll check that out too.


conklinwh said:


> We try very hard not to be on the highway at night for a number of reasons including cows/horses in the road, large rocks that were put out as a warning and then left, some local drivers think they see better at night without lights, the lack of shoulders and often a big drop and because I don't really want to have an issue at night.
> Another "quirk" to driving in Mexico(BTW the left blinker is one to be very careful with) is that two lane roads become four if there is a good shoulder, especially if a dotted line by the shoulder. It is expected that if you are being passed or if someone looks to be trying to pass coming the other way that you drive on the shoulder if that an option.
> This doesn't always happen but tends to be very useful.


----------



## Guest

Hola!

I didn't find the way for a new post ( could you explain it to me, because I would like to post another message?), so I reply.
I am now in Guadalajara (the only european in this forum?), since yesterday. I am divorced too, and was scared too at the beginning. Change gives fear. And little by little it became a new challenge. 
I spent a month in june in Mexico to choose my place. Here, one can live in a city or in fthe country near by. 
I had 2 cats too. They are staying wirth a friend of mine in Belgium. 
I needed 8 months to fix up the "things", (I cannot find the right word in english).Hope you will join!





rowleyda said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I was having problems trying to find how to post something and not just reply.
> 
> I need some help and would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give me. I live in SLC, UT and want to move to the Guadalajara area. I am retired and want and need a change. I've read many wonderful accounts of this city in Mexico and the surrounding area. I'm planning on moving either in six month, or no later than one year.
> 
> I've never lived any where other than the US and I feel that it is time to get out and discover other worlds -- I'm a little tired of the one I'm in.
> 
> Any information that you can shed or help me in any way, would be appreciated.
> 
> I will be alone (I do have 3 cats) as I am divorced. It is a bit scary -- this is a big move. I've given myself ample time to make all the arrangements that will be needed. I truly am green at this point. I want to live in an area where I don't have to pay the high prices for everything that you do in the US. I also want new experiences and to discover different cultures.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Deb


----------



## TundraGreen

mitsuko46 said:


> I didn't find the way for a new post ( could you explain it to me, because I would like to post another message?), so I reply.


Each collection of messages on one topic is called a "thread". To start a new thread, go to the main Mexico page, the page that lists all of the current threads. Above the top of the list of threads, there is a big green button labeled "New Thread". Click on it to start a new post.


----------



## Guest

Thank you so much!

I will try this. Have a nice day!




TundraGreen said:


> Each collection of messages on one topic is called a "thread". To start a new thread, go to the main Mexico page, the page that lists all of the current threads. Above the top of the list of threads, there is a big green button labeled "New Thread". Click on it to start a new post.


----------



## Pstarz22

*I speak english and spanish*

Hey there I live in GDL aslo I am from Detroit Michigan....I can help you if you like that way you dont get to desperate with the language barrier.....


----------



## Pstarz22

otown said:


> I am learning Spanish (3 lessons a week), but with the little I know, I'm seriously stunted. I know almost no other gringos and, although many people here know English, they are hesitant to use it. I do not blame them, as I am the one responsible for learning the host country's language. But after two months of serious immersion, I am quite lonely and ready to go home. Also do not like my living arrangement, which was so difficult for me to find, I cannot imagine trying to find another. I knew I'd have a hard time without Spanish, but I'm making a serious effort, yet not finding many people willing to meet me halfway.
> 
> Love to get together with anyone out there...be able to understand the conversation for a bit....maybe talk a little...


I can help you so you dont feel so frustrated!!! I speak both spanish and english


----------



## RVGRINGO

These responses are a couple of years late, but may help someone else:
There are expats in Tlaquepaque, but many more just to your south; in Chapala and Ajijic. Try hanging around there on weekends and you are sure to meet several. Any of the Ajijic restaurants will provide you with English speaking retirees by the table-full.


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## JoParsons

*Hola Guadalajara*

*I'll be landing in Guadalajara late on the 29th of October and staying at the Hotel El Tapatio for 2 nights. Any tips from any of you now there will be greatly appreciated. Also, I'd love to meet some nice people for lunch on the 30th.
*


eriver90 said:


> Otown I will be moving down to GDL from San Francisco and I do not know anyone there, so definitely looking to make friends.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Your hotel is on the highway; actually, between the lanes where the highway splits, so it is not easy to access without your own car. However, the food is good and the grounds are very nice. There is a pool with a bar and a good view on a clear day.


----------



## JoParsons

*El Tapatio*

Well, I was not planning anything there but a taxi ride to a restaurant. Thanks for letting me know about the limitations.



RVGRINGO said:


> Your hotel is on the highway; actually, between the lanes where the highway splits, so it is not easy to access without your own car. However, the food is good and the grounds are very nice. There is a pool with a bar and a good view on a clear day.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Hotel Tapatio may have shuttle service to the airport, or even into Guadalajara. The hotel is not in the city, but on the highway between Guadalajara and Chapala. Taking a taxi to another location to find a restaurant, in a city you don't know, will make for an expensive meal.
Is it too late to change to a downtown hotel? Then, you could walk to dozens of restaurants and explore the fascinating historic centro.


----------



## conorkilleen

RVGRINGO said:


> Hotel Tapatio may have shuttle service to the airport, or even into Guadalajara. The hotel is not in the city, but on the highway between Guadalajara and Chapala. Taking a taxi to another location to find a restaurant, in a city you don't know, will make for an expensive meal.
> Is it too late to change to a downtown hotel? Then, you could walk to dozens of restaurants and explore the fascinating historic centro.


I would agree with RV. Whenever I go to Guad for business I stay in the historic center at the Holiday Inn Hotel & Suites Centro Histórico. If that is out of the price range then there are a few more around that area that are really cool. Lots of options for food and cocktails and general sightseeing. Personally, I think Guad has the best historic district for any large Mexican City in all of Mexico.


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## JoParsons

*El Tapatio Close to Airport*

The reason I chose it was because it's closer to the airport, not because it's close to the city. I'm going to check on a shuttle though, thanks. 



RVGRINGO said:


> Hotel Tapatio may have shuttle service to the airport, or even into Guadalajara. The hotel is not in the city, but on the highway between Guadalajara and Chapala. Taking a taxi to another location to find a restaurant, in a city you don't know, will make for an expensive meal.
> Is it too late to change to a downtown hotel? Then, you could walk to dozens of restaurants and explore the fascinating historic centro.


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## johnmex

I understand that it is kind of run down, not yet a dump, but on its way.


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## JoParsons

johnmex said:


> I understand that it is kind of run down, not yet a dump, but on its way.


Hmmmm, it's got lots of start. Well, it's only a couple of nights. I'll let you all know when I get there.


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## JoParsons

JoParsons said:


> Hmmmm, it's got lots of start. Well, it's only a couple of nights. I'll let you all know when I get there.


"stars" . . . "it's got a lot of stars"


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## JoParsons

*Dinner 10/30 in Guadalajara*

Okay, to the person (wink, wink, nod, nod) who suggested I contact him earlier to my arrival date in Guadalajara, it's now a week. I'm looking forward to an early dinner with an english speaking expat before I take the bus on the 31st to Uruapan. Hope you have the time and the interest. I'm hoping to take a taxi on the 30th to somewhere interesting and then meeting you for dinner. Any suggestions?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

P.S. I couldn't respond to the IM.


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## GRINGOMAC

TundraGreen said:


> I have been by the place on San Francisco a couple of times. I have to confess that the name of the group bothers me a little. While the term "American" in English nearly always refers to a citizen of the United States (of America), it can also refer to anyone from North or South America. And many citizens of Canada and Latin America resent the fact that US citizens have appropriated that term. I know there are "American" societies all over the world but using that term in Latin America seems insensitive to me.
> 
> Am I being too politically corrrect? Has there ever been any discussion within the group about whether the name was a good idea?



When I lived in Europe, 'Americans' were considered to be from the US and Canadians from Canada. Many Americans look on themselves as being 'American' pure and simple! As your President says and those before him said in his opening speech quotes, My Fellow Americans'.. My Aunt when she took up US residency she had to give up her home citizenship and become an American Citizen!

Canadians may be 'North American's' but tend to hold on to Canadian image. We may be all immigrants just some off the boat more recently than others..


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## RVGRINGO

It would appear that the choice of the name, "United States of America", didn't lend itself to a good choice of a name for its citizens. 'United Statesers' just doesn't roll off the tongue. Since there are a lot of American countries; forty two of them participating in the present Pan American Games in Guadalajara, aren't all of those people 'Americans'? Many in the USA don't even realize that the full name of Mexico is 'Estados Unidos Mexicanos' (The United Mexican States), consisting of 31 states and a federal district.
Spanish does have a name for citizens of the USA: Estadounidenses. It is precisely accurate and avoids all confusion. Too bad we don't have a similar word in English. However, some use 'norteamericanos'; but that simply means 'north americans' and would include Mexicans, USers, and Canadians, so it isn't a good choice either.
Once, in a Texas border town, I saw a Mexican-American float in a Christmas parade. It was beautiful and paid tribute to both countries. As it passed, I noticed the words on the rear of the float; "Somos Uno" (We are one). I liked that sentiment.


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## Isla Verde

It used to bother me when Mexicans would refer to me as "americana", but now I just accept it as the easiest way in Spanish to refer to citizens of the USA. No one ever uses "estadounidense", at least not in everyday conversation - much too cumbersome of a word.


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## johnmex

Nope, they just use _******_...


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## TundraGreen

johnmex said:


> Nope, they just use _******_...


Actually the only people I ever hear use the word "******" are people from up north. Mexicans almost never use that word around me. My lawyer's office refers to me as "El Americano". They even have my file labeled that way. Every one else seems to use my name, mostly in the Spanish version of it.


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## JoParsons

TundraGreen said:


> Actually the only people I ever hear use the word "******" are people from up north. Mexicans almost never use that word around me. My lawyer's office refers to me as "El Americano". They even have my file labeled that way. Every one else seems to use my name, mostly in the Spanish version of it.


I can't wait to hear what I'm called . . .


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## JoParsons

*I'm There*

I'm here, in Guadalajara. What fun is this with my broken spanish getting help at the airport. Yikes I love it! I have 2 nights here before bussing down to Uruapan. It hit me really funny at one of the airports today . . . I'm not coming back. It felt amazing. Well, more later.


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## Isla Verde

JoParsons said:


> I'm here, in Guadalajara. What fun is this with my broken spanish getting help at the airport. Yikes I love it! I have 2 nights here before bussing down to Uruapan. It hit me really funny at one of the airports today . . . I'm not coming back. It felt amazing. Well, more later.


¡Bienvenida a México, Jo! Please take time to keep us posted as you settle into life in your new home.


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## JoParsons

*It feels like the time of my life is just starting*

Thanks and I will. Don't forget my website, Home - On The Road to Mexico for pictures and more details.

Can you believe that the young man who took my bags to my room had recently been to Uruapan on vacation? 



Isla Verde said:


> ¡Bienvenida a México, Jo! Please take time to keep us posted as you settle into life in your new home.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Jo. If you stay at the Hotel Nueva Alameda, just off the plaza in Uruapana, say 'Hi' to Jorge. He's the bellman/carpark attendant and an all round nice guy. I think he may speak a little English, but he could be a good source of assistance/directions, etc.


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## GRINGOMAC

Jo,
Why did you choose Uruapan?
Uruapan - The Real Mexico : Mexico Travel


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## JoParsons

*You need to ask?*



GRINGOMAC said:


> Jo,
> Why did you choose Uruapan?
> Uruapan - The Real Mexico : Mexico Travel


*After reading your link, you really need to ask? Okay, besides all of that, the climate is exactly what I like and there is not a big expat presence. I'm going to be steeped in the culture, with lots of places to check out, all the avocados I can eat (and that's a lot) and, of course, the cost of living is fantastic.*


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## GRINGOMAC

JoParsons said:


> *After reading your link, you really need to ask? Okay, besides all of that, the climate is exactly what I like and there is not a big expat presence. I'm going to be steeped in the culture, with lots of places to check out, all the avocados I can eat (and that's a lot) and, of course, the cost of living is fantastic.*



How did you come to decide that this was the place to re retire? Had you visited here in the past and what spurred you to go there?


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## JoParsons

I wanted a temperate climate, few expats, a really nice central plaza and parks. I did a lot of research on the internet and the town came up. The more I read, the more attractive it became. Tomorrow will be the first time I've ever been there. BTW, retire is such a permanent word, I may be there a couple years and then find another best place.


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## GRINGOMAC

It is always wonderful to go somewhere warm and visiting Mexico is such a sensual experience, in the sense that the colours, sounds, food, smells and vegetation all almost blow you away and fill your senses to overload.

Have a wonderful new life in Mexico


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## rosfreed

I have to put a word in here ...... people seems to think that the Lake Chapala area is over occupied with foreigners. It isn't! There may be "lots" living here, but there are thousands of Mexicans too. The people here are so welcoming, so friendly, so kind, and there is so much going on both "foreign" and Mexican. It is a very popular area for the Mexicans from Guadalajara to spend weekends, and the cost of living is low, IF you stay away from Ajijic. We live in Jocotepec, we never hear an English voice when shopping or having a Cappuchino at the plaza, delicious and only 15 pesos! I bought a huge cauli for 12 pesos, and a kilo of strawberries for 10....they're 30 in Ajijic. You have all the luxuries of living close to a city, it's an hour to Guadalajara, and if you feel homesick, there's so much going on in English as well. It gives you to option of going from one world to the other. The Mexicans really appreciate the foreigners, too, they go out of their way to make you feel welcome and wanted, which is nice. My husband has just been asked to sing a couple of songs at the St Cecelia music festival in the Plaza..he's no professional, but they said they would like to have some songs in English to make the foreigners feel welcome and part of the life here. Then there is the weather, just about perfect! It ticks me off a bit to see this area kind of by passed as being not really "Mexico". I'm British, lived in Spain, Portugal, the US, Costa Rica, and traveled a lot.....I wish I'd missed out 4 years in Costa Rica and come straight here!


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## Hound Dog

TundraGreen said:


> Actually the only people I ever hear use the word "******" are people from up north. Mexicans almost never use that word around me. My lawyer's office refers to me as "El Americano". They even have my file labeled that way. Every one else seems to use my name, mostly in the Spanish version of it.


Well put, TG. We have lived in Mexico, both in Jalisco and Chiapas, for over ten years and we have never been addressed as "gringos" except by other foreigners who consider themselves as "gringos". Especially in Chiapas, this word is considered to be an insulting racial epithet and would only be used face-to-face with another person in an aggressive and confrontational manner by Mexicans. 

Wait; I take that back. I was once addressed as a ****** in Ajijic by a Mexican after a traffic related confrontation some eight years ago a couple of years after we moved to Mexico. While I do not remember precisely what was said after we both pulled over to the side of the road, it was something like, "You ****** ****** *ssholes think you own this (Lake Chapala) area but you are in Mexico now and...."; well you get my drift. He then threatened to kill me which he obviously did not do. 

In San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas where we normally spend our winters, we have many indigenous friends and shop almost daily at the indigenous market and, because we are among the very few foreigners or even mestizos who shop there we have become known and have, as is typical of Mexico, earned the honor of having nicknames or at least my wife has earned that honor. She is known there as "Tia", "Meca" or "Guera". To my wife´s back they may refer to her as "La Gringita" or "La Francesa" (since she is French). Since I am a big "******", I am referred to at a distance as "Gordo".

Dawg grew up in Alabama during the Jim Crow era of the 1950s and white foreign residents of Mexico today referring to themselves as "gringos" reminds me of "Uncle Tom" inclined African Americans of those days referring to themselves as "Us colored folks". There is no need, folks, to refer to yourselves as "gringos". Expat or extranjero or, if you are from elsewhere in North America, Americano which locals will understand does not refer to Mexicans, will do without the "Steppin Fetchit" self effacement.


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## AlanMexicali

*Nicknames*



Hound Dog said:


> In San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas where we normally spend our winters, we have many indigenous friends and shop almost daily at the indigenous market and, because we are among the very few foreigners or even mestizos who shop there we have become known and have, as is typical of Mexico, earned the honor of having nicknames or at least my wife has earned that honor. She is known there as "Tia", "Meca" or "Guera". To my wife´s back they may refer to her as "La Gringita" or "La Francesa" (since she is French). Since I am a big "******", I am referred to at a distance as "Gordo".


That is so nice as you have to be very good to have been given those nicknames. I worked with over 150 Mexicans at different times and have had many nicknames. El Güero being the most common. On the border you can be called ****** in an affectionate way not to incite disrespect but in SLP it is Americano. A lot of Mexicans call white skinned American woman Güera when she can't hear. Another affection name younger Mexicans call older friends of the family is Tio or Tia and younger friends of the family Primo or Prima here on the border. Working class people, men, from Sinaloa call each other Compa, probably short for Compadre. I have been called Compadre by a few of my friends and have adopted a buddy as my Compadre also. When going to a fiesta etc. these adjectives will usually be used when a friend introduces a friend to someone. Ex. "This is my primo Jorge" What a cool thing they have going doing this. Just more of the charm of living in Mexico.


PC Compatible Platform Make sure the Num Lock on the keypad at the right of your keyboard is on. Hold down the ALT key while at the same time typing the following numbers on the keypad.
The character will appear when you lift the ALT and finish typing the numbers.
ALT 160 = á
ALT 161 = í 
ALT 162 = ó 
ALT 163 = ú 
ALT 164 = ñ 
ALT 168 = ¿ 
ALT 130 = é 
ALT 173 = ¡ 
ALT 129 = ü

Use the numbers on the right and not the numbers on top of the keyboard.


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## Retired-Veteran

All I can give you is "Hang in there!" It has been only a short amount of time. When I moved to Germany (complements of the US Army) It took about one year before I started speaking with the Germans) After three years living there and no formal training I was able to get around and feel I could even continue living there. I know I could not hold a job but I would be able to live there. Even now some years later I can still understand more German than I can speak. 

The same will happen to you. If you're a guy find a lady friend (or vice versa) and ask for help from them him/her. You might end up with a good friend/spouse and speaking Spanish.

I wish you all the best and remember you moved there for a change (Because America will not)


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