# Anyone on Empty ?



## Clic Clac

How are you all doing for petrol or diesel ? 

I saw the queues and tensions rising on the TV news last night. Most of the queues seem to be in the north, from Calvados to Pas de Calais. 
I had to go into town to Leclerc this morning, so I glanced at the pumps and all was calm. Quieter than a normal morning. 
Two school buses filling up on the HGV pump at the side, and two cars sharing the four main pumps. 
I waited about two minutes behind one of them, then put 30 euros in which will see us through next week.


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## Yours truly confused

We have 2 fuel stations in town, the one near the supermarket, now run by Avia, which seems to have fuel whenever we pass and a Total which runs out of fuel a few hours after each delivery. The Total station has the extra reduction offered by Total in those stations in rural areas. We managed to fill up on Wednesday morning just as they had a delivery, today they are, again, awaiting the next delivery. We now consciously fill up when we go below half a tank.


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## Poloss

Wednesday the local Total station was selling diesel at 1.58€ which attracted crowds - then they went dry and closed.


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## BackinFrance

If Total would just grant the claims of the CGT, which are after all not excessive, there would not be a problem. When you take into account the massive profits that Total has and continues to make, and the fact that the CEO gave himself a 53 or 54% increase during the last quarter of last year, you have to wonder. Of course you can keep buying their cheaper fuel, but then you are actually extending the dispute.

BTW one of those ristournes ends on 31 October.


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## BackinFrance

In my town there are now only Total service stations which have managed to put all of the others out of business. I used to pay extra and go to one of our 2 Avia service stations, but despite the fact that they diversified significantly, they both suddenly closed because they went bankrupt.


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## BackinFrance

And late this afternoon even the government was calling for Total to resolve the strikes, not that It has any power over Total which does not even pay tax on its revenue in France, at least not unless it decided to nationalisé oil refinerirs.


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## Bevdeforges

Haven't seen too many lines in our area for gasoline or diesel, though the pump area at both the local Leclerc and at the one Total station nearby was definitely crowded. It has always struck me as strange because the Total station in the next town over always has prices that are significantly higher than those anywhere else in the area. And all the extra "price reductions" just barely get the price down to roughly the same as Leclerc and Costco. I've always wondered why anyone would buy fuel there (other than lately since they now have the ethanol 85 stuff). 

The irony is that all this "energy sobriety" and cutting back on carburant usage is probably something we should have been working on for the last 5 or 10 years. We're not going to eliminate fossil fuels overnight, no matter what fancy gadgets people come up with.


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## LFBEUSTON

In my little world, down here in the Pays Basque, I have been following the news and have been wondering why there are the huge queues outside Total petrol stations. The price apparently!! I 'pop' across to Spain for my fuel and can't remember the last time I ever bought any fuel in France so am quite insulated from it. I know that price will affect anything and everything but I would have thought that if obtaining fuel was a high priority then it is quite easily obtained at another outlet, albeit at a slightly higher price. It's a 'must have' society I suppose and driving around in a car is 'essential' these days, even to go shopping! According to the news this morning 80% of petrol stations are working normally throughout France so why the problem?


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## Clic Clac

LFBEUSTON said:


> According to the news this morning 80% of petrol stations are working normally throughout France so why the problem?


Most of the supplies will be sitting in full car tanks on drives and in garages.
Have a look this morning. Maybe not in your area if you have an alternative supply, but Macron did his Lance Corporal Jones impression last night.
"Don't panic ! Don't panic !" 
Expect 'panic' right across the north.


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## 1790260

When Total's price reduction started, morning of I went up to a local one expecting queues - but nothing. Looked at the price board and, yes, the price was reduced as expected (1.64 I think it was) So I filled up and went in to pay (no pay at pump there!) and said to the guy 'have you been busy this morning?' 'No, not particularly' he replied. I was baffled. 

Was in a different location yesterday am and it's Total was closed, so I went over to the Super U opposite - a few cars but no queue. 4 cents a litre more than the Total, no biggy. Came past my local Total on the way home and it was closed too.

I'm rural so we don't really see the massive queues generally that you see on the evening news. Different world around here.


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## Clic Clac

appunti said:


> *the Super U *opposite - a few cars but no queue. *4 cents a litre more* than the Total, no biggy.
> *I'm rural* so we don't really see the massive queues generally that you see on the evening news. Different world around here.


It sounds similar to around here.
I can drive 25 km to the big town with Leclerc and one other big PS, or drive the loop via a small town which is 15 km away with a couple of pumps at Super U.
As you say, always a touch more expensive, but quieter and closer if I only need diesel (as xM seems to be blind re the warning light.)
We visited the outskirts of Nancy last week, and I noticed that fuel prices were higher than we pay, even at Super U !
Same for food prices in a massive Cora v. our much smaller Leclerc.
xM remarked that it's always more expensive in a big city, and I said it's the opposite in England. You always pay a premium in 'the sticks'; economies of scale, and all that.


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## LoriEleanor

In our small town, the only station is out of 95 (been out for at least 4 days). As of yesterday, they still had 98. We filled up the tank at Carrefour in Orange a few days ago. I am told several other surrounding small towns (most have only one station) are out.

Like someone else said, once the tank gets below half, we fill up.


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## Bevdeforges

As they keep mentioning on the news (at least here), the problem is not with supply, but rather with distribution. Evidently the tank truck drivers are on strike (at least those who work for Total). They also interviewed a Carrefour manager in the south of France who is simply buying carburant from Spain. Raises the price a bit (and she is taking heat for "profiteering") but their pumps are available and filled up regularly.


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## BackinFrance

Macron outright lied yesterday when he said negotiations between the unions and Total and Esso are almost finalized. They haven't even started yet.


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## Peasant

All of the stations around here have loads of fuel. Almost no Total stations in the area, probably a dozen or more stations between home and the nearest Total statiion about 10km away.


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## LoriEleanor

And in today's headlines.









Vaucluse. La préfète prend un arrêté pour limiter la vente de carburants


La préfète de Vaucluse, Violaine Demaret, vient de prendre ce vendredi 7 octobre au soir, un arrêté préfectoral pour limiter la vente de carburants dans le Vaucluse.




www.ledauphine.com


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## Bevdeforges

There was a piece on TV the other day about the owner of a small gas station who was simply directing the traffic of those lined up to buy fuel at his station. Priority went to "public service" vehicles, those who had to use their cars for their work (i.e. nurses, etc.) and limiting everyone else to 30 litres per visit. No jerry-cans, of course.

I think somewhere in there they mentioned that there is no need for a nationwide set of regulations on this. But they did leave it up to the prefectures to do whatever they had to to maintain order in their districts.

I understand that the truck drivers who deliver the fuels are demanding a 10% rise in pay. Seems a bit high just at the moment, but if they get it, just remember that it will be yet another reason for Total to increase the price of carburant again.


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## BackinFrance

Bevdeforges said:


> There was a piece on TV the other day about the owner of a small gas station who was simply directing the traffic of those lined up to buy fuel at his station. Priority went to "public service" vehicles, those who had to use their cars for their work (i.e. nurses, etc.) and limiting everyone else to 30 litres per visit. No jerry-cans, of course.
> 
> I think somewhere in there they mentioned that there is no need for a nationwide set of regulations on this. But they did leave it up to the prefectures to do whatever they had to to maintain order in their districts.
> 
> I understand that the truck drivers who deliver the fuels are demanding a 10% rise in pay. Seems a bit high just at the moment, but if they get it, just remember that it will be yet another reason for Total to increase the price of carburant again.


10% is not high at the moment and of course it depends when they had their last increase. CGT members working for Total are seeking 10% + 3%. Not much for Total which is continuing to distribute large dividends to shareholders and has given massive pay increases to already highly paid executives who in any case are also shareholders given their salary packages.


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## BackinFrance

Just to explain a little bit about the claims by the CGT.

The enterprise agreement is due to expire in the not very distant future, although negotiations are not due to commence at the moment. 

The agreement was entered into before the war i'in Ukraine and before inflation started to explode. Remember too that the government has indicated that the bouclier d'énergie will change to 15% increase from 1 January.

The existing EA did not provide for any of this so workers are already well behind cost of living increases. Whilst I am not familiar with the EA in question, these agreements frequently provide for some kind of catch up at renewal. 

Remember too that more money for workers means more money being spent, more taxes and more cotisations for the social security system including for health care and pensions.


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## Clic Clac

Bevdeforges said:


> There was a piece on TV the other day about *the owner of a small gas station *who was simply directing the traffic of those lined up to buy fuel at his station. Priority went to "public service" vehicles, those who had to use their cars for their work (i.e. nurses, etc.) *and limiting everyone else to 30 litres per visit. *


Was it the 'old boy' at Abbeville?
I thought he said '30 _EUROS_' but that could be down to my French. 

Have to say, I've never seen so many police 'out and about'. Some of the forecourts were full of them.
When this was happening in England a few months ago, I never saw a police officer until after the 'handbags' had kicked off with the queue-jumpers.
Although they quickly allocated one petrol station in each large town to supply essential workers' vehicles.



BackinFrance said:


> Remember too that more money for workers means more money being spent, more taxes and more cotisations for the social security system including for health care and pensions.


Trickle-Up economics, as opposed to the current Trickle-Down. ✔ 🤗


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## BackinFrance

Trickle down doesn't actually exist. Trickle up most certainly does.


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> 10% is not high at the moment and of course it depends when they had their last increase. CGT members working for Total are seeking 10% + 3%. Not much for Total which is continuing to distribute large dividends to shareholders and has given massive pay increases to already highly paid executives who in any case are also shareholders given their salary packages.


 Everyone has a view on these things of course but for me I don't see what shareholders are getting, for the risk they are taking, or indeed what executives are getting, whether they deserve it or not has to do with what is offered or demanded by employees. It is a red herring to point the finger at shareholders and executives simply because they are getting a good salary or return on their investment. I don't know what a tanker driver is earning or indeed what anyone is connected with this dispute is earning and I bet no one else does either! Do those seeking more than is being offered earn less than they are qualified for or less than the average? I bet we don't know the answer to that either.
It has always been a ploy to distract any rational debate by saying 'shareholders get this and executives get that' In short it is socialism at work, except that socialism has never worked!!


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## Clic Clac

BackinFrance said:


> *Trickle down doesn't actually exist*. Trickle up most certainly does.


Oh yes it does. I read it in Kwasi Kwarteng's book.  

And he should know - he made his mates in 'The City' millions last month.
Now everyone is waiting for the trickle to start.


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## Bevdeforges

Clic Clac said:


> Was it the 'old boy' at Abbeville?
> I thought he said '30 _EUROS_' but that could be down to my French.


Oh, you could be right there - I have the same problem with my French and often misunderstand things like that. But it very well may have been the "old boy" at Abbeville. My hat is off to him - because he's certainly doing his best to try to distribute things as fairly as possible given the circumstances. 

No police noticeable around here - but then again, we haven't had the queues for the petrol stations, either. And Costco has been putting out notices that they expect to have plenty of carburant available all weekend - limited to those with a Costco card. Then again, there aren't that many Total stations around either - other than the one in the next town over.


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## BackinFrance

LFBEUSTON said:


> Everyone has a view on these things of course but for me I don't see what shareholders are getting, for the risk they are taking, or indeed what executives are getting, whether they deserve it or not has to do with what is offered or demanded by employees. It is a red herring to point the finger at shareholders and executives simply because they are getting a good salary or return on their investment. I don't know what a tanker driver is earning or indeed what anyone is connected with this dispute is earning and I bet no one else does either! Do those seeking more than is being offered earn less than they are qualified for or less than the average? I bet we don't know the answer to that either.
> It has always been a ploy to distract any rational debate by saying 'shareholders get this and executives get that' In short it is socialism at work, except that socialism has never worked!!


The strikers are on an average rate of pay of €5,000 p Huer month, which is more than most workers in France earn. But that isn't the point. Total is making méga profits and pays no tax on them in France. Many if not most of their shareholders also do not pay tax in France. At least if the strikers get an increase, that money will be taxed in France in the main spent in France. Not that you would give a damn anyway.


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> The strikers are on an average rate of pay of €4,000 per month, which is more than most workers in France earn. But that isn't the point. Total is making méga profits and pays no tax on them in France. Many if not most of their shareholders also do not pay tax in France. At least if the strikers get an increase, that money will be taxed in France in the main spent in France. Not that you would give a damn anyway.


I disagree, that is very much the point! Simply because others are earning more than you doesn't mean you have to earn as much as they do or that they have to share with you. The two, in my view are not related. The two jobs are not even the same let alone comparison of skills or ability. It is the same socialist outlook I'm afraid, they have it and I want it. It doesn't matter in the slightest that investors could lose everything , in which case the good old socialist would probably say" good riddance"! Or that the senior staff have probably spent many years getting to their positions including, probably, a higher education. No, they have it and I want it. What pillocks don't really understand is that eventually they do themselves out of a job. €4000 a month! Nothing when made redundant!!!


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## BackinFrance

Investors of Total certainly do not risk losing everything, if anything at all, at least not before climate change gets the better of us all and Total is a very significant contributor to climate change.


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> Investors of Total certainly do not risk losing everything, if anything at all, at least not before climate change gets the better of us all and Total is a very significant contributor to climate change.


So you think investors do not risk losing anything at all? Do you understand the concept of investing? If so I doubt you would have said such a thing. What about those who run the company, at a profit, enabling those strikers to earn €4000. a month above the average? Why shouldn't they be earning whatever it is they are, and not breaking the law in doing it they provide the environment for the strikers to work.
And now you introduce climate change! Yes, let's shut down Total because they are ruining the planet then we wouldn't have to worry about the strikers who are earning €4000 a month and all the other workers who would be out of a job, including the filthy capitalists running the company!! Then what? Just who do you think provides all the think provides the jobs, the circumstances that allows you to buy and sit at a computer? Perhaps you think it would be better if we all dropped down to the lowest denominator regarding salaries, tell that to the strikers if so!


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## BackinFrance

I can't help wondering why on earth someone who is so anti socualiism would have chosen to move to France. Oh, wait, they are undoubtedly benefitting from it in one way or another.


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> I can't help wondering why on earth someone who is so anti socualiism would have chosen to move to France. Oh, wait, they are undoubtedly benefitting from it in one way or another.


You are wondering because you don't know! Just like your views on those who, according to you, are not paying any tax!!


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## BackinFrance

LFBEUSTON said:


> You are wondering because you don't know! Just like your views on those who, according to you, are not paying any tax!!


Why are you in France and if you don't like the way things work here, why not return to wherever it is you came from?


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## conky2

A match made in heaven......


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> Why are you in France and if you don't like the way things work here, why not return to wherever it is you came from?


What strange post! I enjoy living in France. Which rather negates the second part of your question I think! Not at all sure what that has to do with Total and strikers but then again it does take all sorts I suppose!!!!


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## BackinFrance

You are living in a country that is totally permeated with socialist ideas.


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> You are living in a country that is totally permeated with socialist ideas.


I know, then again we have Total, a capitalist enterprise that the socialists need. How else can they lead their parasitical existence?


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## BackinFrance

LFBEUSTON said:


> I know, then again we have Total, a capitalist enterprise that the socialists need. How else can they lead their parasitical existence?


Not worthy of a response. Although capitalist businesses like Total clearly still need both their lower paid workers and their customers. So now the strike is being extended to service stations.


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## LFBEUSTON

BackinFrance said:


> Not worthy of a response. Although capitalist businesses like Total clearly still need both their lower paid workers and their customers. So now the strike is being extended to service stations.


Of course Total needs customers. Do you think the company would exist if 'the lower paid workers' were earning more than the executive? Of course in a socialist dreamworld they would all be earning the same rate and no doubt wearing cloth caps whilst marching along singing revolutionary songs! Fortunately we have capitalism to finance the socialist system!! Interesting that you say 'still need' does that imply you think one day they won't? Power to the people perhaps!!!


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## Bevdeforges

OK, this "discussion" has turned the corner. Bye. Bye.


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