# Heating system in new house



## Spotters

Many Portuguese people tell me I don't need a heating system, especially if a new house is well insulated. Hard to believe after some of my visits! I am considering under floor heating powered by an air source heat pump. Anyone seen this system operating or got any comments?

Spotters.


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## siobhanwf

Spotters said:


> Many Portuguese people tell me I don't need a heating system, especially if a new house is well insulated. Hard to believe after some of my visits! I am considering under floor heating powered by an air source heat pump. Anyone seen this system operating or got any comments?
> 
> Spotters.


There is a portuguese guy who spent 25 years in canada who deals with all types of systems, We have used him for both out solar panels and heating. 

And anyone who says you don´t need heating especially after the winter we have had is nuts!

Will email you his contact details


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## Silverwizard

Spotters said:


> Many Portuguese people tell me I don't need a heating system, especially if a new house is well insulated. Hard to believe after some of my visits! I am considering under floor heating powered by an air source heat pump. Anyone seen this system operating or got any comments?
> 
> Spotters.


Hi Spotters.
Welcome to the forum.Can't say that I have any experience with the type of heating that you mention in your post,however I would imagine that the Portuguese people that you spoke to would have an open fire in their own homes with either a Salamander (a wood burning stove) or an open hearth.As Siobhan quite rightly says it can get cold & very wet here in the winter & some form of heating is a must.


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## PETERFC

*reply*

Hi Spotters

I went to a home builders show in Harrogate last year and there where a number of companies displaying Air source heat pumps. When i get to move to my house in Vale Boa one of the types of heating i will be looking at is an Air source heat pump. I will use Solar for water as the house is south facing. I am looking at Solar for the power supply for the heat pump during the day and mains power for night time use. 

There are two links to some info about Heat pumps

Peterfc 666?

Air Source Heat Pumps

Air source heat pumps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## siobhanwf

PETERFC said:


> Hi Spotters
> 
> I went to a home builders show in Harrogate last year and there where a number of companies displaying Air source heat pumps. When i get to move to my house in Vale Boa one of the types of heating i will be looking at is an Air source heat pump. I will use Solar for water as the house is south facing. I am looking at Solar for the power supply for the heat pump during the day and mains power for night time use.
> 
> There are two links to some info about Heat pumps
> 
> Peterfc 666?
> 
> Air Source Heat Pumps
> 
> Air source heat pumps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Hi Peter 

As you seem to have done a great deal of homework on this did you come across anything with the likely cost of a system? Also the ability to run it from solar power.

I have been trying to do some research with regards to heating a swimming pool


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## siobhanwf

We moved here in January 3 years ago and were highly amused by our Portuguese neighbour going out to work in a PUFFA jacket. At least I was!!! my husband was more realistic and told me "wait til next winter!!" 
Once we had lived here through our first summer and the days started getting colder...on went he cardi....then the sleeveless padded jacket the the winter coat!!! BRRRR! I have resorted to gloves yet!!


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## Spotters

Thanks for all the comments. I know they are widely used outside Europe and I know it will work with UFH, but I'd just like to hear from anyone who has had experience. Hard to find someone and I don't trust all the UK adverts just trying to sell the concept. I know gas in Portugal is very expensive and I don't trust oil prices, so electric seems the best way to go and the heat pump uses it VERY efficiently with about 1kw input giving 2.5 to 3kw output. I would feel better though if someone told me they have it and it works!

Spotters.


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## PETERFC

siobhanwf said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> As you seem to have done a great deal of homework on this did you come across anything with the likely cost of a system? Also the ability to run it from solar power.
> 
> I have been trying to do some research with regards to heating a swimming pool


Hi Siobhan

I may be a bit Paranoid but i am sure you will at 61 in a position that if i make a mistake it's not so easy to start all over again. For this reason i have spent probably more than a 1,000 hours or more on research into every aspect of my move. 

One company that comes to mind has a solar panel that runs on it's own solar power and the prices are reasonable. For times i may be away from home i will use one of there units but it would be the unit that provides it's own power. Free and no bills. 

It is very difficult to figure out who is the best as all companies claim to have the best system.

Another well respected company is Raizverde. I know of Simon one of the owners from somewhere else but i met Dave the owner in the May Tay in Gois. They where installing a new system Gois outside of Gois and it was to be the first of it's kind in Portugal.

Well i hope this is of interest and help to you and others.

Peterfc 666?

Information in English

SolarVenti - Solar Air Heating Dehumidifiers, Ventilation & Water Heating


SolarVenti goes to the Antarctic!
The British Antarctic Survey has bought a large SolarVenti unit (SV30) to improve the atmosphere in one of their buildings in the Antarctic. If successful in the hostile Antarctic environment several more units will be ordered.


SolarVenti SV30H Plus:

The new SolarVenti SV30H Plus is the latest addition to the SolarVenti product range. This new product provides almost all of the outputs that our existing SV30 does - ventilation, a powerful dehumidifying effect, and significant supplemental space heating. Yet from the same unit it also provides free solar hot water (SWH).

The picture shows an SV30H Plus with the cover removed.

The SV30H Plus is supplied as a complete self fit package. It is delivered with everything you need to get Solar Water Heating for free.
The kit includes:-
-: The SolarVenti SV30H Plus unit (dimensions and specification as per the SV30)
-: 100L Atlantic hot water cylinder with heat exchanger and anode *
-: 10L open expansion tank
-: 16mm Polypropylene pipe plus insulation
-: 12 Volt regulator [Danotech]
-: Room thermostat [Schluter]
-: 12 Volt (solar powered) pump [Laing]
-: Antifreeze for the solar heating circuit
-: Roof and wall mounting brackets and fittings

The unit weighs less than 33Kg.

*We can alternatively supply twin or triple coil vented hot water cylinders in varying sizes suitable for utilisation in combination with your existing heating systems. Please contact us for further details.

The SV30H Plus is completely independent of mains electricity. The pump is solar powered so hot water transfer automatically takes place everytime the the sun shines. SolarVenti's unique design allows self cooling even when the pump is stopped - this helps to counteract boiling of the heated water in the system.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Heating during winter here is a MUST ! There are different options available. I don't personally like paying ANY service provider. Perhaps I am just paranoid, but E.D.P. the electric supplier here, have a monopoly and they can really mess you about and also charge you an arm and a leg. They have a system of sending you ESTIMATED bills, because they cannot be bothered to
come and read your meter. When they eventually do come and read it you can 
next get another bill because they have UNDERESTIMATED your level of consumption.

We had a house guest ( family member/ bum, and moocher variety) who was a huge drain. Light and heat on 24/7 internet and pay for view
sites on 24/7. T.V. on in his room 24/7 you know the sort.  My advice would be a combination of solar and a wind turbine. You get lots of sun and wind here so using them to good advantage is the way to go I now feel.


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## PETERFC

*Reply*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> My advice would be a combination of solar and a wind turbine. You get lots of sun and wind here so using them to good advantage is the way to go I now feel.


Hi Mr.Blueskies and all

Solar with Wind Turbine connected to a battery system for that bit extra for days when wind is not so good. Solar now works well even on a dull day.

Ok the outlay may put some of but the plus side is no more power cuts now that must be a bonus.


Peterfc 666?


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## Mr.Blueskies

I agree Peter. I think though that it all depends on ones personal situation ? For old codgers like us, who have retired here on a pension or on some savings it really is important to be thrifty. I thing that the best value for money low cost living in a situation like this must come from making maximum use of natural FREE resources like sun and wind. I know that installation costs are high but I have been looking at sites which showan alternative approach and how you can make your own solar panels and wind turbines for A FRACTION of the cost of professional installations. They do work a treat also ? Also power can be generated if one has access to a flowing water source.

Pay nobody nothing has now become my creed!
lol


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## Spotters

I would love to go entirely the solar and wind turbine route, but when its cloudy and cold and raining one would require God knows how many square metres of solar panel to warm a mouses den.

The sun supplies about 1300 watts per square metre. Some is "blocked out" by the atmosphere and almost all is blocked with thick cloud. Take into account the angle that the panels face - only at 90 degrees to the rays can they get everything available. It's not really a cost effective solution (apart from how it would look with your entire roof and back garden given over to solar panels).
And of course, Sod's Law plays a part - we WANT energy when it's cold and cloudy!


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## PETERFC

*Reply*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> I agree Peter. I think though that it all depends on ones personal situation ? For old codgers like us, who have retired here on a pension or on some savings it really is important to be thrifty.
> Pay nobody nothing has now become my creed!
> lol


Mr.Blueskies 

Let me first say " Old codger " ok but retire on a pension you lucky " Old Codger " this old codger does not have a pension i am going to do Tours of Gois 10 euro a trip. The tour will last until the tourist has no money left to buy Superbok. 

Link below on how to build a solar panel

I will rely on the sale of a house i am selling " no mortgage " and cash divorce settlement. Yes i am poor just like you, so lets get what we can for nought. :clap2:

Peterfc 666? " Hauntings at Halowean apply here only 10 euro"

DIY Solar Panel


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Spotters,
I don't know the exact figures and what one could realistically expect to achieve. But surely even if a 50% reduction on electric consumption was achieveable for a MINIMUM outlay, this must surely be a win, win situation ? 
If the sun could say be ulilised from say April - Sept and the wind power harnassed from say Oct - March would this not be a viable proposition ? I am no expert though !

:confused2:


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## Silverwizard

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Hi Spotters,
> I don't know the exact figures and what one could realistically expect to achieve. But surely even if a 50% reduction on electric consumption was achieveable for a MINIMUM outlay, this must surely be a win, win situation ?
> If the sun could say be ulilised from say April - Sept and the wind power harnassed from say Oct - March would this not be a viable proposition ? I am no expert though !
> 
> :confused2:


Hi All,
As someone living on a modest pension & savings I totally agree with what our friend Blueskies has to say.Surely if you are in that situation ANY saving is more than welcome.


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## Spotters

I totally agree. The thing is, the outlay v. return is the key. The reason I'm particularly interested in an air source heat pump is because it gives up to 3.5 kw for 1 kw input (depending on outside temperature), but it's only efficient when heating water to lowish temperatures like 40C - hence underfloor heating because it only needs low temps. That's a good saving and the outlay is slightly more than a normal (gas) boiler. A couple of solar panels also for DHW, but not realistic for CH as far as I know.


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## PETERFC

*Reply*



Spotters said:


> I totally agree. The thing is, the outlay v. return is the key. The reason I'm particularly interested in an air source heat pump is because it gives up to 3.5 kw for 1 kw input (depending on outside temperature), but it's only efficient when heating water to lowish temperatures like 40C - hence underfloor heating because it only needs low temps. That's a good saving and the outlay is slightly more than a normal (gas) boiler. A couple of solar panels also for DHW, but not realistic for CH as far as I know.



Hi Spotters 

How did you get on with Simon Sharp? this machine IP is banned from NomiS site.

Peterfc


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## John999

Peter the best way to keep your self warm in the winter is to find yourself a new girlfriend. Try a Latin one


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## PETERFC

*Reply*



John999 said:


> Peter the best way to keep your self warm in the winter is to find yourself a new girlfriend. Try a Latin one


Hi John 

It's been thirty years since i felt this good and the divorce has not finished yet. I should have left her a long time ago. As for another one sorry not in this lifetime. A nice hot water bottle and a glass or two of Remy Martin XO or similar.

Peterfc 666?


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## Mr.Blueskies

Or you could just take to wearing a sleeping bag 24/7 with your head
stuck out one end and your feet the other. Just tie a piece of string around the
middle. :eyebrows: Just been thinking of an old homeless guy who used to dodge
about in our vicinity when I was a lad. He was known to us kids as Johnny 40
coats.

Now there's another idea !


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## PETERFC

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Or you could just take to wearing a sleeping bag 24/7 with your head
> stuck out one end and your feet the other. Just tie a piece of string around the
> middle. :eyebrows: Just been thinking of an old homeless guy who used to dodge
> about in our vicinity when I was a lad. He was known to us kids as Johnny 40
> coats.
> 
> Now there's another idea !


Hi Mr.Blueskies

I think a hot water bottle and a glass of Remy XO but maybe plan b as well. But that's another story that may only be available on my Blog but it won't be on till after my divorce.

Peterfc 666?


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## omostra06

Re Heating.

I think that it really depends on the property, if its a good quality new build then you should not need central heating as the property will be very well insulated, or if you are restoring a property you can add insulation.
We only use a logburner some evenings during the winter and its not cold, but when we were rebuilding we made sure the insulation was good, we also increased the wall thickness by around 10cm and the extra care has worked well for us, costs less to heat the house and cool in the summer.
(we do have preinstallation for4 central heating and A/C but didnt need it)

also it depends on where you are in portugal, further north the colder the winters are, in the mountains its more misty, frosty and damp, by the sea sometimes a cold wind, so location will also play a part in your heating costs.


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