# Thinking about moving to Beijing (UK expat)



## MisterSix

I've recently been offered a job in Beijing for 12,000RMB per month and am debating about whether to take it. The job would be a sensible career step and I have experience of working abroad so I'm not too worried about that. 

However, I would like to know more about living in Beijing. So:

1- Is 12,000 a month enough to live comfortably on? I have no qualms about living with flatmates if need be and I don't require a massive home to be happy. I'm also happy to buy cheap and cheerful takeaway food or make my own rather than buy brand-name products. I also hope to keep a little away for a deposit when I move back to the UK. I can't drive so I'll need to use public transport.

2- What's the censorship like? How much of the internet is blocked off?

3- What is the expat community like? Are they fairly friendly and open? Are there many British/Irish expats there?

4- What about the local community? I'm a pretty open-minded guy and happy to make friends from all over. Will I be welcomed? I'm white - don't know if that makes a difference.

5- How easy is it to fly off on holiday? I'd quite like to explore some of South East Asia while I'm there (Thailand, Malaysia etc) - will it be difficult for me to get visas?

6- Will living in China make it impossible (or dangerous) for me to go to other countries? Do any countries refuse to accept people with Chinese visas?

7- I'd want to bring my Xbox and laptop over from the UK; will they be okay if I just buy a plug adaptor?

8- How are electronic goods priced? I'm guessing most of them are made in China anyway... can I get a decent TV for a reasonable price?

9- What would you say is the best area to live in?


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## andrewrh

Hi, I think you'll find some answers on this site :

China : British Expat Discussion Forum

In general, it is safe for foreigners, you can make friends and travel to other countries is easy. A UK passport usually means, no visa requirements, apart from Vietnam. 

Salary : you need to push for more. What is your employer providing ? Will they pay the tax, accommodation, overseas allowance, trips back home every year, medical insurance, shipping your stuff here and back ? These are very important benefits which a lot of expats will have included in the package.


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## MisterSix

Thanks! I've posted something on there and your answers were useful. However, if you could offer me any more information or answers they would be very gratefully received. Thank you!


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## nihaohello

I have removed the reference to the website. 

I no longer in live in Beijing, but returned from there early this year, to a smaller city in the UK, where I'm from

1) Food in Beijing is reasonably cheap, if you want to eat cheaply, be it take-away (REAL Chinese, not takeaway UK rubbish!) - restaurants are everywhere. You clearly haven't been before, or you would know this. Not a problem, but China is often different to our Western idea of restaurants.
Your salary isn't much. Rent is hugely expensive in Beijing, for a quality place, in a quiet nice area, at least 8000 yuan per month, let's call this £800 for example. You could get a one bedroom in a flat-share for 1500 yuan per month, but that will be more Chinesey, with less acceptable quality. Equivalent Western living is going to cost you a lot more.

Where's your healthcare package? China's hospitals aren't the best, although Beijing does have the odd very high quality one, so get full healthcare included. Is this a foreign entity or Chinese owned company? A foreign company will negotiate salary... negotiate upwards!!

I don't know you - what is your currently UK salary in London? I know expats in Beijing teaching English who earn the same as the salary you quoted - so the salary you quoted isn't great. Equally I know expats in Beijing who earn 40,000 to 60,000 yuan per month before tax (£4000 to £6000) eg: professionals. Are you a professional? Or do you do a vocational job here in the UK?

Again, I don't know you, so you may as well be honest here, it will help others in future. Why not get an apartment included in your contract? or extra cash? You deserve more money I feel, what's your industry?!

2) The 'internet' is my area - and it's heavily censored. Keywords are blocked, and random websites can remain blocked for days, weeks, months or years. Youtube, facebook, etc are blocked again now. They were once open temporarily. You can get VPN (virtual private networking) software that will encrypt your internet traffic to somewhere outside of China, so you can realiably access news and websites you wish. I find that English content is often unfiltered on news websites, such as guardian.co.uk but the Chinese language edition is blocked.

If you're a cheapskate you can get a geeky friend to setup a VPN on their home PC here in the UK, and you could connect to their PC to get your unfiltered internet access. You may instead wish to just pay a subscription, such as £5/month, and get software that will do this for you. Arrange this BEFORE you go to China, websites are blocked remember, including VPN software websites in most cases!

3) I found the expat community full of many American males, who were absolute first class pricks. There were many nicer females of all nationalities; you will find that many males have 'yellow fever', and are obsessed with either their Chinese girlfriend/wife, or are teaching English in a lowlevel job and are content to just chase as many Chinese girls into bed as possible. They are losers, so avoid that crowd.

The 'nicer' expat district is dotted about Beijing; avoid CBD (central business district) as this is a busy location, with very high pollution levels, and expensive property to rent/buy. Haidian District is a nicer place, quieter, expat areas.

A famous beijing website has useful information and links, BUT...and it's a big BUT: the forum is full of the aforementioned dumb unprofessional amateur English teachers on dodgy visas; so be VERY careful when posting there. If you search the forum and site you will find a tonne of information.

For accommodation and other advice you really need a Chinese friend, and you don't have any I'm guessing.

4) Do you speak Mandarin 普通话? Download or buy Pimsleur Mandarin and learn some of it. A little effort goes a long way! The local community may speak some English, as youngsters are taught it impeccably in school, but Chinese culture is more shy and retiring. Very few people will approach you just to strike up a conversation, you need to understand they are more quiet and refined in general. Play this to your advantage.

5) Air Asia fly to many places outwith China, cheaply, if you book in advance. Internally, flying can range from cheap to expensive. Trains can be cheap, but are often heavily booked 3 to 5 days in advance. Things don't always get cheaper the nearer to travelling on trains, but as you would expect, flights can get expensive around holiday season, such as Spring Festival (Feb 3rd 2011 this year.)

You need a visa to get into China, L tourist visa, Z/X/F work visa. You'll need one with multiple entries (at least 'double') to go there initially, then travel outside of China for a holiday. A multiple entry work visa costs more initially, but make sure you get it.

Summary: China has many beautiful places, you're spoiled for choice, so definitely look at getting to the South West Mountaineous regions ("Huanglong", for example!!) before flying off abroad outwith China

6) You're not Chinese, you're British, I presume. You may wish to avoid Indonesia's earthquakes at the minute, or anywhere with an increased threat of bombing, but overall you'll be ok. For places like Thailand, you fill out a visa application on arrival in the country, should you go there, so you're British passport means you are treated as you would normally be, as if you were travelling to that country straight from Britain. Check out FCO.gov website yourself, and the foreign consulate in question.

7) Your xbox will be fine. They use two types of power: two prong circular, two prong flat. Bring a couple of adapters, and you will be fine. Beijing is a major city, very few power issues.

8) You can get a Chinese brand TV relatively cheaply. Their TV service is around 50 channels, mostly ironically called CCTV xxxx (xxx=the variant) - China Central TeleVision. Branded goods are mostly more expensive or the same as the UK in my experience - don't buy branded goods there unless you can help it. Take items with you instead, such as cameras, iphone/ipods, mobile phones, etc.

9) As before, I have lived in a few areas. Haidian is nicer, but the polloution and noise can be high everywhere. Construction work is common in some areas, particularly CBD, although this has slowed with the advent of the recession finding its way to China from the Western limitations on domestic throw-away spending.

Where is your work office? Live nearby...not too nearby, but a few stops subway/bus. Don't buy/rent a car, the streets are choc-a-bloc during, well, always. At night things get quiter, but rush hours are absolutely crazy.

Check out where the office will be, and if you need help, contact me via this forum private message facility. You want to stay within a few subway stops of your office; the subway is absolutely fantastic, and is currently only 1 yuan per single ride - that's about 10p!

Summary:

Check out where to live
Make Chinese friends
Join an expat community.
!!!!!GET HEALTHCARE, accommodation allowance AND A HIGHER SALARY!!!!!


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## MisterSix

nihaohello said:


> Your salary isn't much. Rent is hugely expensive in Beijing, for a quality place, in a quiet nice area, at least 8000 yuan per month, let's call this £800 for example. You could get a one bedroom in a flat-share for 1500 yuan per month, but that will be more Chinesey, with less acceptable quality. Equivalent Western living is going to cost you a lot more.


What do you mean by 'Chinesey'? TBH I'm not very high maintenance - a bed, a bathroom, electricity and the internet are about all I need. And it has to be clean, obviously. No roaches, rats and other scary beasts! 



> Where's your healthcare package? China's hospitals aren't the best, although Beijing does have the odd very high quality one, so get full healthcare included. Is this a foreign entity or Chinese owned company? A foreign company will negotiate salary... negotiate upwards!!


Not sure about this stuff - will enquire tomorrow. I think it's a foreign company though. What would you say is a reasonable wage for a late-20s man with six years of industry experience? I'm a journalist so we usually get paid less than we'd like anyway. 



> Again, I don't know you, so you may as well be honest here, it will help others in future. Why not get an apartment included in your contract?


I'll broach this subject...



> You may instead wish to just pay a subscription, such as £5/month, and get software that will do this for you. Arrange this BEFORE you go to China, websites are blocked remember, including VPN software websites in most cases!


What would you recommend for this? When I was living abroad before I used HotSpot, which was free and decent enough but very slow. There were also popups but my plugins take care of them. Would a paid service be faster/better quality? 



> Where is your work office?


I think it's in Chaoyang?

Thanks for this - your advice has been excellent!


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## nihaohello

MisterSix said:


> What do you mean by 'Chinesey'? TBH I'm not very high maintenance - a bed, a bathroom, electricity and the internet are about all I need. And it has to be clean, obviously. No roaches, rats and other scary beasts!
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure about this stuff - will enquire tomorrow. I think it's a foreign company though. What would you say is a reasonable wage for a late-20s man with six years of industry experience? I'm a journalist so we usually get paid less than we'd like anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll broach this subject...
> 
> 
> 
> What would you recommend for this? When I was living abroad before I used HotSpot, which was free and decent enough but very slow. There were also popups but my plugins take care of them. Would a paid service be faster/better quality?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's in Chaoyang?
> 
> Thanks for this - your advice has been excellent!




Chinesey accommodation could mean in a very quiet area with a wide age demgraphic of inhabitants, which usually means slightly lower standard accommodation, both outside and inside. I enjoyed that at first, but after some time, you want any lifts to work all the time, cleaner shared hallways/stairs, etc. There are roaches and rats all over Beijing, just like London and New York. You'll need a few roach-traps setup to catch any that come in through shared drains.

Get someone from the company to help you with this, after pestering them for an accommodation allowance, which you could include in a revised suggested salary offer. If you don't try to go higher, you may kick yourself later on.

In the UK I earn £55k in IT, not in England, and I'm mid-twenties; I literally have no idea what a Journalist earns here. In Beijing, due to inflation and high cost of living at a mediun-level standard of living, I would probably want 20,000 to 30,000 yuan per month income. In time you will get more hopefully; but if it's a Chinese company, medium or small sized, you can have issues with wages being paid on time, salary raises in the future, and all that rubbish. If you're working for a major newspaper then I would imagine it's not as unreliable by any means.

I am not anti-low wages, and I generally save most of my wages. I like nice food, and in Beijing I still ate in local restaurants. You could live on your salary offered, but I'd imagine you want to save and have a good life there too whilst you reside there.

Internet censorship drove me mad at first; you need to prepare this before you go. TOR (the onion router) no longer works properly, and was often slow anyway. No idea if hotspot shield still works, but I think not. 'Freegate' was also temperamental. A paid VPN, or a friend/family member having an always-on PC here with appropriate VPN software for you to connect to from Beijing would be a viable option.

Chaoyang is a massive area - find out of the company is Chinese, and use google maps to find out exactly where it is. Google maps has the subway line stops if you zoom out far enough, once you know that, I can help you with choosing a few areas in which to investigate living.

For example, if you were near line 10, you could live North or South of Chaoyang, in a quieter area, and you would arguably have a better life, if you can afford the relatively cheap (in my opinion) taxis to go out at night with colleagues/friends that you make.

You don't have to post this here, but I'm unaware if a private message facility actually exists on this forum, as I only registered to reply to your post. Either way, ask away, and see if you can grab some more info. My main alarm bells were when you weren't sure if the company was a foreign or Chinese one - I'd prefer a foreign, but some Chiense ones arent' so bad.


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## MisterSix

Thanks, man. This is all very helpful. I'll have to look into the VPN router thing ASAP.


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## nihaohello

MisterSix said:


> Thanks, man. This is all very helpful. I'll have to look into the VPN router thing ASAP.



No worries. Post here if you require more, although I don't know if this site is blocked in the China mainland. I guess the infamous VPN will come in handy if so!

Don't judge 北京 (BeiJing pinyin) on first impressions; it's the capital, but has the largest Chinese immigrant population, due to the vast turnover in jobs, and also has a large variety and number of positions available in multiple market sectors.

Once you've been to other places in China, particularly the South, such as GuangZhou, you'll realise that 北京 isn't actually that nice a place culturally. However, most people will have a touch of English at the very least, foreign shops galore in certain areas of the city, and the easiest place to 'fit in.'

Don't be scared to use your hoildays flying cheaply to other places in the mainland, because that's where the real culture is. Eventually you may do what many foreigners do there; leave to work in another 2nd-tier or 3rd-tier city. Life changes significantly, but you sound like you could handle a bit of abnormality and immersion.


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## g.frattesi

Hi! I'm living in beijing from 3 years. I'm Italian. 

1) First of all let me give you a suggestion: ask for more!! I mean: 12,000 RMB are a good base to live quite comfortably in china. I don't know what's your work about but I think you may dare to ask at least 20,000 RMB. Moreover be careful: is 12,000 a gross salary or a net one? You know: taxes in china are not very high, but anyway something you are going to give to the government... So, be careful! I think as a base a company should offer 20,000 plus some benefits (allowances, flights back and so on). As far as I know this is the ABC for a contract in china!

2) cannot lie to you: Internet is blocked. Facebook is not available and don't think to watch the premier football matches on YouTube, but luckily this forum works. Moreover there are some Chinese substitutes to facebook (kaixin001.cn) and YouTube (Tudou.cn). But Internet is quite a lot censored.

3) as per my experience, expats community is very opened and is easy to get in touch with them. There are a lot of foreigners in university, in various companies and so on...moreover, the embassies usually invite forigners to some meetings, so is quite easy to know each other.
I also have to tell you that the good thing in China is that, after some months, it doesn't matter where you come from: all the Lao Wai (as Chinese call foreigners) will feel like being all of a single country! And that's wonderful: I mean, no matter where you come from and where I come from. We are different from Chinese people, so I will feel like you if we were from the same country... Like until yesterday we lived in the same city... Is a feeling hard to describe that makes all the foreigners very opened and helpful one with each others!

4) Chinese people are wonderful, curious and fascinating...just avoid politics if they are not your close friends. But you will know a lot of people. Being white, blue, black red or orange does not make difference...for young people...old people don't like black guys (I know is bad but that's the truth)

5) actually Chinese people seem to work a lot, but the truth is that they have quite a lot of one week or ten days holidays. Getting visa for Thailand or other asian countries is very easy as you are not Chinese. Go to hong kong, Singapore or so on.
Be sure that your company will provide you a resident visa (Z type) as without it you can't get the residence permit and without residence permit you can't rent a home. Be sure that your company has a Chinese who can help you and whose job is making those kind of things, if not you will get lost among the Chinese offices. Take with you your original diploma as they will ask it from now on and it can happen that they don't accept a copy.

6) living in china is not dangerous at all and you will have no problems in getting visa for other places, so don't worry!

7) for laptop no problem: you can buy an adaptor even in china. For xbox I don't know as I have never did it, but I guess no problems.

8) you can get good prices for tv in china, just remember to bargain in everywhere...don't stop at the offer price. Don't buy computers in china. Never. Unless you want to be tracked when you go on Internet or use skype to speak (you'll be controlled anyway, but it won't be that easy). If you want more info search what Green Wall is on the Internet...have fun!
Buy computers and electronic stuffs in Hong Kong. They are cheaper and without Green Wall

9) best area to live is near the CBD, but is quite expensive (from 6,000 RMB on). Don't go to bargain on price, but send a Chinese there if not they will increase the price because you are foreigner. Go to see the flats, but never speak of price. Then when you've found the one you like, just send a Chinese to agree the price for himself and then you will go just to sign the contract.
Be careful about home appliances. If they are Chinese 4,000 RMB is enough as price. If they ask you more they are cheating you! Take care of where the AC is (free standing or on the walls) because if is a free standing one it will not work very well. Look very carefully at the restroom and in the shower and ask if heating is provided as in Beijing winter is terribly cold. 

That's all I know! Good luck!!!!!!!


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