# House Renovation



## fido

I have just returned from a househunting trip, mainly in central France but also in Germany. The idea is to rent out my cottage in Scotland for a couple of years, buy a house for renovation on the continent and stay there while doing most of the work myself. I would then either resell the renovated property, rent it out full time to local people or keep it as a holiday home. There are lots of Brits living in France but not many in Germany and I'm wondering if there are particular reasons for this? On the face of it there seem to be some amazing bargains to be had in Germany so I'm wondering if there is some major snag of which I'm unaware. For example, I saw a fairly big half timbered house near Hildburghausen for 35,000 Euros. It needs some work but is far from being derelict and even has double glazing to most windows.
Would such a place make a worthwhile investment or am I missing something?


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## MaidenScotland

Perhaps people prefer to go to France for a holiday.. better weather etc


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## James3214

Hi Fido, Nice idea, in fact, I have often thought about it myself but decided against it. Unlike the UK and maybe France, the price fluctuations with property just don't occur. Yes, prices look ridiculously cheap in some areas but so are the rents. Germans when they do buy tend to buy for life and it is only really worth buying a property if you are here say for over five years and you probably won't make much profit on it and even if you do, you can expect to be taxed on it if you sell it within 10 years. However, saying that, I always thought about getting a holiday property near the Rhine and Mosel which is served by Ryanair at Frankfurt/Hahn. Bargains are to be had around there and it really is a beautiful area with lovely vineyards and although a lot of Brits visit the area, the property boom normally created by them, so far hasn't happened.


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## fido

Thanks James. That's an interesting idea about the Rhine area. I see one of the stopping places for the Rhine cruises is Boppard. Perhaps something like this would be worth considering for future holiday letting purposes:

6-Zimmer Haus Kaufen in Boppard (56154), 131 m für 58500 ? - immobilo.de


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## James3214

fido said:


> Thanks James. That's an interesting idea about the Rhine area. I see one of the stopping places for the Rhine cruises is Boppard. Perhaps something like this would be worth considering for future holiday letting purposes:
> 
> 6-Zimmer Haus Kaufen in Boppard (56154), 131 m für 58500 ? - immobilo.de


Boppard is good but personally I would look more on the Mosel. More scenic and cheaper and even nearer to Hahn. I remember looking around the Zell-Cochem 'Kreis' :

Haus kaufen mit 50.000 - 200.000 EUR Kaufpreis in Cochem-Zell (Kreis) bei ImmobilienScout24

But check out that you can legally let it as a holiday home as well. Best probably to get a cheap Ryanair flight over to Hahn, rent a car, stay in the cheap 'pensions' around there and register with a few estate agents and generally find out about the area.

Direct flights go to Hahn from Edinburgh as well!


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## fido

It's strange, Hahn is not shown on my road atlas but I found it on multimap and then used that to find the nearest place that _is_ on my map, Sohren which is about 3 miles from Hahn. Is Hahn just a small village?


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## James3214

fido said:


> It's strange, Hahn is not shown on my road atlas but I found it on multimap and then used that to find the nearest place that _is_ on my map, Sohren which is about 3 miles from Hahn. Is Hahn just a small village?


That's right, Hahn is only a small village and the nearest town is Sohren. Hahn airport was a US and later a NATO airbase up until 1993 and obviously there used to be a lot of Americans stationed in the area. I remember parking near the fighter bunkers a few years ago before the new car park opened.
There is a good description on Wikipedia about it's history
Hahn Air Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## fido

Thanks again James. When I was looking at houses I actually pretty much decided against Germany as the roads seemed so busy. I moved from Nuneaton to north east Scotland in 1997 to find a more peaceful way of life. I suspect if I go to Germany I will be jumping back into the rat race.
I found the motorways were much like the M25, just overloaded with traffic so everything keeps grinding to a halt. The alternative is the minor roads which take ages because there are so many villages, each with their low speed limit. In UK you can find plenty of stretches of open road but there most of the population is concentrated in the cities. Germany seems to have a very large rural population so there's far less open countryside. The journey times in Multimap hint at this. One place I found was only 22 miles from Hahn airport but it was still suggesting you allow nearly an hour for the trip!
On the other hand some of these house prices are very tempting.....


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## James3214

fido said:


> Thanks again James. When I was looking at houses I actually pretty much decided against Germany as the roads seemed so busy. I moved from Nuneaton to north east Scotland in 1997 to find a more peaceful way of life. I suspect if I go to Germany I will be jumping back into the rat race.
> I found the motorways were much like the M25, just overloaded with traffic so everything keeps grinding to a halt. The alternative is the minor roads which take ages because there are so many villages, each with their low speed limit. In UK you can find plenty of stretches of open road but there most of the population is concentrated in the cities. Germany seems to have a very large rural population so there's far less open countryside. The journey times in Multimap hint at this. One place I found was only 22 miles from Hahn airport but it was still suggesting you allow nearly an hour for the trip!
> On the other hand some of these house prices are very tempting.....


I suspect if you go anywhere from NE Scotland you will be back in the rat race! Oh well, good luck in wherever you decide, but I think that area is at least worth a visit, especially when the wine festivals are on...like now!


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## fido

No, the Limousin region of France seemed to be just as peaceful as my corner of Scotland, although I admit I've not been there at peak tourist season. In France it is possible to make reasonable progress without using the motorways. I found this out because I begrudge paying the tolls! On my initial drive south from Callais I got as far as LeMans and found I had spent as much in tolls as I had in diesel for my little van.


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## litelfun

fido said:


> I have just returned from a househunting trip, mainly in central France but also in Germany. The idea is to rent out my cottage in Scotland for a couple of years, buy a house for renovation on the continent and stay there while doing most of the work myself. I would then either resell the renovated property, rent it out full time to local people or keep it as a holiday home. There are lots of Brits living in France but not many in Germany and I'm wondering if there are particular reasons for this? On the face of it there seem to be some amazing bargains to be had in Germany so I'm wondering if there is some major snag of which I'm unaware. For example, I saw a fairly big half timbered house near Hildburghausen for 35,000 Euros. It needs some work but is far from being derelict and even has double glazing to most windows.
> Would such a place make a worthwhile investment or am I missing something?


I would steer clear of Timberframe their are to many bad points to list I have opend some up after only 2 weeks of construchtion you wouldent believe what was found their so I would hate to fink what you would find over years  their are reale bargaines to be had wheir their is no employment but I presume most hu buy in france or italy cheep dont buy to work their ever just dont expecht to 
rent you over heades would be biger than your Return a typical gas bill in Germany a year is around 2000 euro plus for a older hause because a tenant wonts his place warm knight and day !!


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## fido

litelfun said:


> I would steer clear of Timberframe their are to many bad points to list I have opend some up after only 2 weeks of construchtion you wouldent believe what was found their so I would hate to fink what you would find over years  their are reale bargaines to be had wheir their is no employment but I presume most hu buy in france or italy cheep dont buy to work their ever just dont expecht to
> rent you over heades would be biger than your Return a typical gas bill in Germany a year is around 2000 euro plus for a older hause because a tenant wonts his place warm knight and day !!


Is it not like in UK where the tenant pays the utility bills? I realise I will have to pay for buildings insurance but was hoping to do a contract whereby bills like fuel, water, refuse collection and council tax were payable directly by the tenant.


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## James3214

fido said:


> Is it not like in UK where the tenant pays the utility bills? I realise I will have to pay for buildings insurance but was hoping to do a contract whereby bills like fuel, water, refuse collection and council tax were payable directly by the tenant.



Yes, the tenants normally pays the utilities themselves but I guess it can depend on the agreement. Normally, if you live in shared building there are additional costs for the shared parts of the building or grounds (water, lighting, cleaning, garden maintenance etc) and are known as 'nebenkosten' which is paid in addition to the rent. Sometimes the heating costs are shared in the nebenkosten because a lot of apartment buildings just have one great big boiler to heat everything in the building.


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## litelfun

fido said:


> Is it not like in UK where the tenant pays the utility bills? I realise I will have to pay for buildings insurance but was hoping to do a contract whereby bills like fuel, water, refuse collection and council tax were payable directly by the tenant.


sorry but in Germany they now they might have nothing to claime from a tenant thats why only the hause owner has to pay the bils licke gas water rates garbage landtax but telephone and elechtric will be seteld with the tenant him self in most cases !!!


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