# Residency Certificates, NIE numbers & Padrón



## Stravinsky

As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.

So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 90 days

*as of July 2011 the forms are as follows:*

EX15 for NIE only, without registering as resident
EX18 for residents list for EU citizens
EX19 for residents list for family of EU citizens



& here's a link to a list of the _oficinas de extranjeros_, which is where you take them

http://www.interior.gob.es/MIR/Directorio/Servicios_Perifericos/Cuerpo_Nacional_de_Policia/Oficinas_de_extranjeros/


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## emily.11

What length of time living and working in Spain requires you to get this residency permit?


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## Stravinsky

emily.11 said:


> What length of time living and working in Spain requires you to get this residency permit?


You have 30 days from when you arrive in the country with the intention to live here. A lot of town halls are not allowing you to sign on the padron unless you have a certificate now, and I have heard of some people not being able to register a car in their name without one


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## emily.11

I'm intending to work out there for up to 3 months, not live there permanently, so I take it I don't need to worry about getting one?


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## Stravinsky

emily.11 said:


> I'm intending to work out there for up to 3 months, not live there permanently, so I take it I don't need to worry about getting one?


No, you're on a long holiday really. Keep your travel documents with you when you are here so you can show when you arrived


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## leothelion

I'm intending to live out there for up to 3 months possibly more using my sons place as a base whilst we look around at areas we may want to settle down in, as we are looking to live there permanently when we decide which part we want to settle down in, my income will be from my business in the uk, so do I need to bother with a residency cert. or should i become a resident even though i am not yet permanently living there, also i believe i cant buy a car in spain if i am not a resident is that true if so what is the best way of having a car to use whilst i am there. any help is appreciated.


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## SpainExpat

If it's only 3 months then you probably shouldn't bother with too much bureaucracy. It'll take you up until you leave to get it all sorted out completely legitimately. As Stravinsky mentioned, it's pretty much a long holiday, not residency - so no reason to get a residency card, right?

Are you planning to buy a car? You should consider contacting some of the larger rental agencies to see if they do long term rentals. Otherwise, take yourself directly to a sales lot and they will help you sort it out better than anyone else (they're extremely motivated, right?).


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## Peter & Fiona

So.... How long do you have to be there before you register?
We are planning to come over in June until the end of October to sing. Do we need to regester? 

We plan on coming back to the UK for November and December, then going back to Spain to live permenantly then.


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## Stravinsky

Fiona McLean said:


> So.... How long do you have to be there before you register?
> We are planning to come over in June until the end of October to sing. Do we need to regester?
> 
> We plan on coming back to the UK for November and December, then going back to Spain to live permenantly then.


If you're coming here to live then you have to register within 3o days arguably, although many people treat it as 6 months. Speaking realistically you could wait until you return, and in that way if you have a UK reg car it gives you a bit more time as you are not resident in effect

Did you say sing?


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## Peter & Fiona

Thanks for your reply, very helpful.

Yes we are both singers. 

Do you know if I can change my username on here?

Many Thanks


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## paulthegull

what happens if your residency card is up for renewal? do u get just a slip of paper or a xard again?


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## Stravinsky

mrypg9 said:


> Not so sure it is. EU citizens may - not must - apply for a residency permit when they move to another EU country.


In Spain it is a requirement, you have no choice


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## Evette Blakey

Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate.
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.25, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


Hi I have been told its 65 euros per person whys this ?


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## Stravinsky

Evette Blakey said:


> Hi I have been told its 65 euros per person whys this ?


Are you using someone to complete the forms for you?
The cost I quoted is correct, so you have been misinformed I guess.


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## Stravinsky

*The Padron*

Courtesy of Chris (Madrid) info on the padron, what it is, and how to get it

http://www.madrid.org/usupadron/pdf/hojas/ingles.pdf


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## chris(madrid)

HERE ALSO IN

* Castellano
* Árabe
* Armenio
* Chino
* Francés
* Polaco
* Búlgaro
* Rumano
* Ruso

Padron

Note this is put out by MADRID REGIONAL COUNCIL but as it is homologated in the Ministry of Statistics which is Federal - any differences MUST be small.

Note what it says on how the length of time you're registered CAN be used for prioritising applications.


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## SunnySpain

Can anyone explain to me in simple terms, what is the Padron ?


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## Stravinsky

SunnySpain said:


> Can anyone explain to me in simple terms, what is the Padron ?


Its like signing on with your local council so they know you are in residence on their patch. They get funding normally dependent on the number of people registered in their area so they are usually pleased to see you.

You go to your local town hall to register and you are issued with a certificate which you may get asked for when dealing with different parts of officialdom


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## chris(madrid)

SunnySpain said:


> Can anyone explain to me in simple terms, what is the Padron ?


LOCAL CENSUS. Basically its *the* register. very often you'll need a certificate of empadronamiento. basically confirms you are who you say and you live where you say.


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## 2seconds

The EX16 is that what i need for the NIE?


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## Raffer

well i worked in spain in 2005 - 2006 so was issued a NIE by my workplace but i dont know what it is is there any way of tracking this down or should i just get re isssued


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## nikkiwinter

*residencia and self employment*

Hi

I have been informed by a few different people that if my husband and I start our own business and register for self employment we will then be covered automatically by the system and therefore no need to apply for residencia. Can anyone tell me if this is correct as there are lots of different sites with very different advice on!!

Many thanks


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## Stravinsky

To the last posters:

If you are resident in Spain then you need a residencia certificate. Yes, if you are paying into the system you will be covered for health, but the residencia is not to do with health.
It doesn't matter if you are an EU citizen ..... you still need one expatspain

*Expatspain*

You wont have to pay CGT if you sell and are of *official pensionable age*, or if you reinvest in another house.

Theoretically in your position your buyer will have to withold the tax from your payment. I'm not sure that being a resident will make any difference to you now as the tax is the same for residents and non residents now (18% I think but check that) .... its more to do with your age


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## Stravinsky

2seconds said:


> The EX16 is that what i need for the NIE?


EX14
sorry missed this whilst I was on hols


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## Stravinsky

Raffer said:


> well i worked in spain in 2005 - 2006 so was issued a NIE by my workplace but i dont know what it is is there any way of tracking this down or should i just get re isssued


NIE's are registered for life .... go to your local Police station and enquire


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## markjd

its completely unclear if you need residence permit. Do you need one or don't you??? there are lots of opinions some say yes and some say no, also confusing when you have a thread that starts off talking about forms then goes of on a tangent talking about tax

I got a form for NIE of another site and was told this is ok to use for NIE application and the local police wouldn't acccept this, i had to fill out there own form and go back again to the police station. The good thing is that although they only gave out so many tickets i waited an extra hour when others left and got a ticket, so it is possible to get a ticket once the people who didn't get one go home


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## Stravinsky

markjd said:


> its completely unclear if you need residence permit. Do you need one or don't you??? there are lots of opinions some say yes and some say no, also confusing when you have a thread that starts off talking about forms then goes of on a tangent talking about tax
> 
> I got a form for NIE of another site and was told this is ok to use for NIE application and the local police wouldn't acccept this, i had to fill out there own form and go back again to the police station. The good thing is that although they only gave out so many tickets i waited an extra hour when others left and got a ticket, so it is possible to get a ticket once the people who didn't get one go home


Its not unclear 
Its only unclear if you listen to these huge numbers of expats out there that think they know everything and still drive around in UK reg cars after 10 years 

You _need_ a residence certificate to be legal here

The download here afaik is the up to date one.
I've been told you get a combined NIE & residencia certificate nowadays


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## Burriana Babs

Stravinsky said:


> Its not unclear
> Its only unclear if you listen to these huge numbers of expats out there that think they know everything and still drive around in UK reg cars after 10 years
> 
> You _need_ a residence certificate to be legal here
> 
> The download here afaik is the up to date one.
> I've been told you get a combined NIE & residencia certificate nowadays


Correct you do need to file for residency. I have been going through the process and they do issue NIE and residency certificate both. Unless you already have your NIE which my husband did have. If you are a EU member then the process is very simple if not then it is a bit more complicated, but still goes smoothly. 

I get so confused as to why if someone is going to live here they are against filing for residency. What is the big deal. Unless they are into something off colour.


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## Guest

Burriana Babs said:


> Correct you do need to file for residency. I have been going through the process and they do issue NIE and residency certificate both. Unless you already have your NIE which my husband did have. If you are a EU member then the process is very simple if not then it is a bit more complicated, but still goes smoothly.
> 
> I get so confused as to why if someone is going to live here they are against filing for residency. What is the big deal. Unless they are into something off colour.


I did not follow all the posts, so I apologize if I am besides your point. It is not true that everyone does need a residency in Spain. For Some EU countries and a few other countries which are considered as communitarian (such as Switzerland) , only the "certificado de Registro de Cuidadano de la Union is necessary. This can be obtained at the local national police. It is better to have this and a NIE # if you want to be able to have a "normal" life in Spain. The correct information can be found at Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores y de Cooperación | Gobierno de España

I agree with the statement that the rules are completely confusing! They are so confusing that even most of the Spanish civil servant do not know them really and will often give you some erroneous infos.


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## markjd

i got a form which has my NIE number on today but the certificate says "I have been registered on the register (el registro central de Extranjeros) and it also says (como residente comunitario en espana) does this mean this is a residence certificate plus my NIE??


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## Guest

markjd said:


> i got a form which has my NIE number on today but the certificate says "I have been registered on the register (el registro central de Extranjeros) and it also says (como residente comunitario en espana) does this mean this is a residence certificate plus my NIE??


I do not think so! The "certificado de Registro de Cuidadano de la Union" is a separate document. It is of blue color and has the above written title. But really, since not even the civil servants know, I can not give a 100% guaranty answer. A Spanish lawyer told me: "The law and regulation really depends on the civil servant which is attending you...


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## bluespain

*problems in Granada Province*



Stravinsky said:


> Its not unclear
> Its only unclear if you listen to these huge numbers of expats out there that think they know everything and still drive around in UK reg cars after 10 years
> 
> You _need_ a residence certificate to be legal here
> 
> The download here afaik is the up to date one.
> I've been told you get a combined NIE & residencia certificate nowadays


Being a Newbie im not sure if this is the right place for me to be but it concerns the residencia cert everything you quoted about the cert is correct. My tale of woe is really for the members who reside in the Granada Province and have to use the main Police Station in Granada I cannot comment on the other two Stations one I think is in Motril.On Tuesday I arrived at the Police Station at 7am joined the queue waiting for my number at about 8.30am I was told by a student that if I didnt have a number I should go home as they were given out at 5am. All the people waiting in the line were non EU citizens mainly students,the queue is for everyone no provisions for EU citizens.It seems you will have to leave home very early to reach there for 5am I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had the same problem or anyone who has resolved the problem.


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## jojo

bluespain said:


> Being a Newbie im not sure if this is the right place for me to be but it concerns the residencia cert everything you quoted about the cert is correct. My tale of woe is really for the members who reside in the Granada Province and have to use the main Police Station in Granada I cannot comment on the other two Stations one I think is in Motril.On Tuesday I arrived at the Police Station at 7am joined the queue waiting for my number at about 8.30am I was told by a student that if I didnt have a number I should go home as they were given out at 5am. All the people waiting in the line were non EU citizens mainly students,the queue is for everyone no provisions for EU citizens.It seems you will have to leave home very early to reach there for 5am I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had the same problem or anyone who has resolved the problem.



When we got our NIE numbers we went with a gestor (pr was he an abogado?? cant rmemeber now!!). he charged us 60 euros, but he took us in his car, he found a parking space (that alone was worth the money!!) and he ushered us in, passed the very long queues waiting and were were out again within half an hour with our numbers!! 

Jo


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## Guest

jojo said:


> When we got our NIE numbers we went with a gestor (pr was he an abogado?? cant rmemeber now!!). he charged us 60 euros, but he took us in his car, he found a parking space (that alone was worth the money!!) and he ushered us in, passed the very long queues waiting and were were out again within half an hour with our numbers!!
> 
> Jo


Can you give me the name and address of this guy? Mine was not able to do this and did know nothing from nothing about the whole matter.


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## bluespain

*problems in Granada*



jojo said:


> When we got our NIE numbers we went with a gestor (pr was he an abogado?? cant rmemeber now!!). he charged us 60 euros, but he took us in his car, he found a parking space (that alone was worth the money!!) and he ushered us in, passed the very long queues waiting and were were out again within half an hour with our numbers!!
> 
> Jo


Hi thanks for the quick reply we have already tried a gestor but he stated he couldnt do it. I think the problem is the different Provinces have all got there own ideas this leads to chaos.


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## jojo

Eva33 said:


> Can you give me the name and address of this guy? Mine was not able to do this and did know nothing from nothing about the whole matter.


His name is Alejandro Murcia vila, I have his e-mail address. do you live in my area Alhaurin de la Torre as this is where he works?? (the Murcia in his name is coincidental)

Jo


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## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> When we got our NIE numbers we went with a gestor (pr was he an abogado?? cant rmemeber now!!). he charged us 60 euros, but he took us in his car, he found a parking space (that alone was worth the money!!) and he ushered us in, passed the very long queues waiting and were were out again within half an hour with our numbers!!
> 
> Jo


You may have got your NIE through him, but you can't use them to get residencia as you have to apply in person.

And yes, the queues are as bad up here!


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## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> You may have got your NIE through him, but you can't use them to get residencia as you have to apply in person.
> 
> And yes, the queues are as bad up here!


I went with my landlady to do that and her daughter works in the Town Hall, so that was easy too!!! I know , I'm a smart @rse!!! LOL

Jo


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## Guest

jojo said:


> His name is Alejandro Murcia vila, I have his e-mail address. do you live in my area Alhaurin de la Torre as this is where he works?? (the Murcia in his name is coincidental)
> 
> Jo


Thanks! But its to far away from me. I am in Alicante. As Stravinsky points out for the residency you have to appear personally anyway, but they let the lawyer in with you -ONLY THE LAWYER, NO FAMILIARS :-( -
Actually the only problem is the standing in line, but maybe its possible to pay someone to do this and give you a call short before its your turn.


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## mrypg9

All this is a tad confusing. I thought getting a Residency Permit in the Czech Republic was complicated and time-consuming.....so in the end I paid someone £200 to get it for me. I have never been asked to show it to police etc and when I present it with my passport when I arrive at Prague airport from my regular UK trips it is brushed aside with disinterest - not even glanced at. 
I have made use of it only once, when I registered a car I bought. Before I got the Permit, I asked a Czech friend to register our other car in her name. I could have asked her to register the second one too. So the Permit is something you can live without here.
I understand that it's different in Spain so could someone please tell me EXACTLY what I need to do in the way of permits, certificates etc. so that I may legitimately do the following things as soon as we arrive in December:

register two vehicles, both lhd, both on UK plates and full Europe-wide insurance, both in my ownership for longer than six months and both with European Certificates of Conformity;

get an internet service provider sorted;

possibly -not definitely- open a Spanish bank account. I'm not sure whether I'll need to do this as we have off-shore and Czech bank euro accounts. Advice would be welcomed.

We will be permanently resident in Spain as soon as we find a suitable villa/finca. Just as we've done in the Czech Republic, we'll do what we have to to meet all legal requirements. We'll do it ourselves if possible, if not or if it involves hours and hours of standing in queues then we'll seek paid assistance, as we did here.


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## Guest

mrypg9 said:


> All this is a tad confusing. I thought getting a Residency Permit in the Czech Republic was complicated and time-consuming.....so in the end I paid someone £200 to get it for me. I have never been asked to show it to police etc and when I present it with my passport when I arrive at Prague airport from my regular UK trips it is brushed aside with disinterest - not even glanced at.
> I have made use of it only once, when I registered a car I bought. Before I got the Permit, I asked a Czech friend to register our other car in her name. I could have asked her to register the second one too. So the Permit is something you can live without here.
> I understand that it's different in Spain so could someone please tell me EXACTLY what I need to do in the way of permits, certificates etc. so that I may legitimately do the following things as soon as we arrive in December:
> 
> register two vehicles, both lhd, both on UK plates and full Europe-wide insurance, both in my ownership for longer than six months and both with European Certificates of Conformity;
> 
> get an internet service provider sorted;
> 
> possibly -not definitely- open a Spanish bank account. I'm not sure whether I'll need to do this as we have off-shore and Czech bank euro accounts. Advice would be welcomed.
> 
> We will be permanently resident in Spain as soon as we find a suitable villa/finca. Just as we've done in the Czech Republic, we'll do what we have to to meet all legal requirements. We'll do it ourselves if possible, if not or if it involves hours and hours of standing in queues then we'll seek paid assistance, as we did here.


Nobody can tell you what you will need! There are exact regulation and agreements, which are signed by the European Community between third countries and Spain. The Spanish representations in the different countries do either no know about them or they prefer to make their own. As far as I know, there is not much we can due about this. If someone has some ideas, please let me know.
Just one sample about my own experience: I am a Swiss citizen. The regulation between Switzerland and Spain is absolutely clear and transparent. Swiss citizens and their family members, whatever nationals they are, have the right to reside in Spain without any further requirements, as long as the marriage is legal in Europe - which is my case -. My wife is stuck in the Philippines and cannot come to Spain. The Spanish consulate does ask her to make some medical tests and to bring a bunch of documents, which are not required by the bilateral regulation. It is impossible to contact the consulate otherwise as by calling a call center, with girls answering, which do not care and not understand your problem. They usually give you an appointment in six weeks from the time you call. This is the way it works.


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## mrypg9

What I do know is that EU citizens have the right to reside in another EU member state for 90 days. I believe that procedures for acquiring residency permits vary from state to state. Here one* may*apply for temporary residence after this period, then after a further three years for permanent residence. If you are working, there are further requirements.
But since no-one stamps your passport at the airport control or even stops your car when you exit the Czech Republic for Germany, Austria etc etc there is no way of knowing whether you have spent ninety unbroken days here.
It will be interesting to see what happens when we reach the Spanish border by car. Friends who drove from the UK to Prague this summer passed through France, Belgium, Germany and the Czech Republic without one stop at a border control.
It does make one wonder what the point of all this bureaucracy is.
Even when stopped by traffic police here I've never been asked to show any proof of residency -or non-residency, for that matter.


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## Guest

mrypg9 said:


> What I do know is that EU citizens have the right to reside in another EU member state for 90 days. I believe that procedures for acquiring residency permits vary from state to state. Here one* may*apply for temporary residence after this period, then after a further three years for permanent residence. If you are working, there are further requirements.
> But since no-one stamps your passport at the airport control or even stops your car when you exit the Czech Republic for Germany, Austria etc etc there is no way of knowing whether you have spent ninety unbroken days here.
> It will be interesting to see what happens when we reach the Spanish border by car. Friends who drove from the UK to Prague this summer passed through France, Belgium, Germany and the Czech Republic without one stop at a border control.
> It does make one wonder what the point of all this bureaucracy is.
> Even when stopped by traffic police here I've never been asked to show any proof of residency -or non-residency, for that matter.


You are right. As long as you travel trough this countries by car, there is most probably no problem at all. But if you want to enter the EU by air, this is another story.

But here just another funny story, which happened to me 10 years, while first applying for residence in Spain. I was waiting in line, and in front of me was a north African man. When his turn came, he did ask for a working permit. The civil servant did ask him about his NIE. He did not know what this was... So she did ask for his residency, ID or passeport. He did not own any of those things... She told him politely that in this case he could not apply for a work permit. The man walked out the office, as he did enter.....


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## mrypg9

Eva33 said:


> You are right. As long as you travel trough this countries by car, there is most probably no problem at all. But if you want to enter the EU by air, this is another story.
> 
> But here just another funny story, which happened to me 10 years, while first applying for residence in Spain. I was waiting in line, and in front of me was a north African man. When his turn came, he did ask for a working permit. The civil servant did ask him about his NIE. He did not know what this was... So she did ask for his residency, ID or passeport. He did not own any of those things... She told him politely that in this case he could not apply for a work permit. The man walked out the office, as he did enter.....



Amazing what some people will try to do......
I've never had any problem when I travel by air which I do, Prague-London-Prague roughly twice a month.
Never been asked to show the wretched piece of paper I spent £200 to acquire!
We're travelling with our dog, he's chipped,have got the passport for him, all vaccinations etc will be up-to-date so it will be interesting to see what happens when we enter Spain from France.


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## Burriana Babs

My understanding is that you MUST register for residency if you intend to stay longer than 90 day (three months)

European Commission - Your Europe - Citizens - for other Union citizens


European Commission - Your Europe - Citizens - Right of residence for up to three months


Residency in Spain - AngloINFO Costa del Sol (Spain)


Hope these pages help to sort the confusion for some members. Not sure why someone would not want to register residency. Help me out here.


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## Burriana Babs

For the Costa del Sol this gestor has been great for helping me with everything involved with residency.

Alain



ceibaconsulting 
CL Los Cármenes, 4 
Arroyo de la Miel 
29630 Benalmádena (Málaga) 
Tel./Fax: 952 44 00 04 
Ceiba Consulting


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## axarquian

I am sill confused about certain aspects of Residency, can someone help ? If you apply for Spanish residency but remain in the U.K. for more than 183 days a year where you work, pay your taxes etc. are you still entitled to U.K. NHS facilities etc, and, because you are not in Spain for more than 183 days am I right in thinking that it is correct to pay taxes in the U.K. rather than in Spain. I ask because I intend to live permenantly in Spain in a year or so but wish to import a UK regd car now and avoid 14.75% Registation tax of approx 1200 Euros by registering as a resident now.


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## Burriana Babs

Eva33 said:


> I do not think so! The "certificado de Registro de Cuidadano de la Union" is a separate document. It is of blue color and has the above written title. But really, since not even the civil servants know, I can not give a 100% guaranty answer. A Spanish lawyer told me: "The law and regulation really depends on the civil servant which is attending you...



Any Lawyer that would tell me this I would be very weary off. That is like saying Lawyers are not needed that the laws are interpreted by the civil servants.

Come on we all know that is not possible, we know they do interpret the laws as they see fit but that does not make it the lawfull interpretation.


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## markjd

I have now confirmed that my 5hrs waiting for what i thought was just my NIE number is in fact a combined NIE and residence certificate, all the threads and forums made it all sound so complicated ond seriously put me off but its done now and out the way


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## mrypg9

Burriana Babs;60833
Not sure why someone would not want to register residency. Help me out here.[/QUOTE said:


> Well, if the situation is similar to that here in the Czech Republic, I certainly can
> Paying £200 or alternatively queueing for hours for a document you will need only if you wish to register a car or get a mobile contract is quite offputting.
> Especially as the queueing system in Prague is now allegedly controlled by the Russian mafia.
> Most expats here get friends to register their car etc - insurance isn't adversely affected. You don't need proof of residence to open a bank account either.
> I asked what I have to do as I need to register cars and get other things sorted and as yet I don't have helpful friends in Spain to do these things for me!
> I'd rather be self-sufficient, anyway.


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## Burriana Babs

mrypg9 said:


> Well, if the situation is similar to that here in the Czech Republic, I certainly can
> Paying £200 or alternatively queueing for hours for a document you will need only if you wish to register a car or get a mobile contract is quite offputting.
> Especially as the queueing system in Prague is now allegedly controlled by the Russian mafia.
> Most expats here get friends to register their car etc - insurance isn't adversely affected. You don't need proof of residence to open a bank account either.
> I asked what I have to do as I need to register cars and get other things sorted and as yet I don't have helpful friends in Spain to do these things for me!
> I'd rather be self-sufficient, anyway.


I am sure there are other reasons to become a resident, such as tax requirements, health benefits, etc. Waiting in lines are just part of the process and if it has to be done it has to be done. Better safe than sorry. 

I would think that being a resident qualifies the resident country for funds from the EU based on numbers. So why not have to money issued to the country in which you live. Makes sense to me.


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## mrypg9

Burriana Babs said:


> I am sure there are other reasons to become a resident, such as tax requirements, health benefits, etc. Waiting in lines are just part of the process and if it has to be done it has to be done. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> I would think that being a resident qualifies the resident country for funds from the EU based on numbers. So why not have to money issued to the country in which you live. Makes sense to me.


We currently pay privately for all health and dental needs - but we may well wish to opt into the Spanish system at some future date. Our accountant will arrange our tax affairs to our best advantage - we don't work, although not yet of retirement age. Not far off, though...
As for the resident country getting extra funds based on expats adding to numbers, you may be right. I'm not sure about that.
My point though is that doing the right thing here cost me £200 and made absolutely no difference during my three-year stay in Prague. 
My partner didn't bother and has had no problem whatsoever, including leaving/reentering the Czech Republic by land or air.
But that doesn't mean we won't do the right thing when in Spain and in that respect, your gestor address was most helpful as we shall be in the Marbella area.


----------



## Guest

Burriana Babs said:


> Any Lawyer that would tell me this I would be very weary off. That is like saying Lawyers are not needed that the laws are interpreted by the civil servants.
> 
> Come on we all know that is not possible, we know they do interpret the laws as they see fit but that does not make it the lawfull interpretation.


Sorry to contradict you. My personal experience in 10 years of Spain is that the civil servants do not know much about some of the regulations concerning foreigners, but since they do not want admit it, they will tell you something wrong. To their defense I have to say that the rules are really very complicated, vary for different countries -even inside the E.U.- and have been changed quite a few times during the recent past.


----------



## Burriana Babs

Eva33 said:


> Sorry to contradict you. My personal experience in 10 years of Spain is that the civil servants do not know much about some of the regulations concerning foreigners, but since they do not want admit it, they will tell you something wrong. To their defense I have to say that the rules are really very complicated, vary for different countries -even inside the E.U.- and have been changed quite a few times during the recent past.


I think that is basically what I have said.  That is why I said that a Lawyer should never have told you what you say he did.


----------



## Burriana Babs

mrypg9 said:


> We currently pay privately for all health and dental needs - but we may well wish to opt into the Spanish system at some future date. Our accountant will arrange our tax affairs to our best advantage - we don't work, although not yet of retirement age. Not far off, though...
> As for the resident country getting extra funds based on expats adding to numbers, you may be right. I'm not sure about that.
> My point though is that doing the right thing here cost me £200 and made absolutely no difference during my three-year stay in Prague.
> My partner didn't bother and has had no problem whatsoever, including leaving/reentering the Czech Republic by land or air.
> But that doesn't mean we won't do the right thing when in Spain and in that respect, your gestor address was most helpful as we shall be in the Marbella area.


Oh he (Alain) is great he has handled all of our residency stuff, my husband is an EU member citizen (English) and I am American so he has handled both types of requirements for obtaining residency. I believe he also does tax stuff, but like you we are retired so have no tax obligation at this time.


----------



## Guest

Burriana Babs said:


> I think that is basically what I have said.  That is why I said that a Lawyer should never have told you what you say he did.


Sorry, my native languages are German and French, so I probably did misunderstand you. Anyway the lawyer did only confirm what I already know since a long time...


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## Burriana Babs

Just ran accross this information hope it helps clarify any questions.

Entry & residence requirements


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## mrypg9

That is indeed useful. Thanks, Babs.


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## Burriana Babs

Glad it is of some help to you. I know I have just gone through the process and still living so not to bad.


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## Guest

Burriana Babs said:


> Glad it is of some help to you. I know I have just gone through the process and still living so not to bad.


Does the process also works if the residency spouse, spouse of a EU resident, enters Spain with a tourist visa? Marriage legal in Spain, of course.. Or is this residency visa really required


----------



## Burriana Babs

Eva33 said:


> Does the process also works if the residency spouse, spouse of a EU resident, enters Spain with a tourist visa? Marriage legal in Spain, of course.. Or is this residency visa really required


The spouse of an EU citizen who has residency in Spain will receive the same treatment as the EU resident and needs to apply for residency as a spouse of the EU citizen. That is what I had to do being American and married to a British citizen here in Spain. I did have to have our marriage license interpreted to Spanish but that was not a problem. Everything else goes pretty smooth but the process is a bit longer and then the spouse will receive a "tarjeta" residents card unlike the EU citizen who only receives a certificate.

Hope this helps Eva.


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## chon

I received my NIE as a certificate on A4 paper: Certificado de Registro De Ciudadano De La Unión. Can I get the NIE in small plastic card format, to go in a wallet? or is that the DNI ? (can I/ should i get one of those ?? )


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## Stravinsky

chon said:


> I received my NIE as a certificate on A4 paper: Certificado de Registro De Ciudadano De La Unión. Can I get the NIE in small plastic card format, to go in a wallet? or is that the DNI ? (can I/ should i get one of those ?? )


Nope, you are stuck with the certificate I'm afraid.
Even the residencia is no longer a card, but an A4 certificate
A lot of people I know are just keeping their old cards anyway for ID generally, for when they expire they are replaced with the A4 cert


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## memoia

*Re residencia*

We have our appointments in Almeria in two weeks for residencia.

We are to make a payment into a bank of 6.80 euros each.

Is the bank payment form availlable to download?

Thanks


----------



## Stravinsky

memoia said:


> We have our appointments in Almeria in two weeks for residencia.
> 
> We are to make a payment into a bank of 6.80 euros each.
> 
> Is the bank payment form availlable to download?
> 
> Thanks


No apparantly not, people have tried to download in the past and not found them


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## memoia

*Thanks*

Ok Strav, thanks for your help anyway.


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## dosprompt

*forms*

Would you need a Pardon form first or does it not matter in what order you obtain the forms??


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## Stravinsky

dosprompt said:


> Would you need a Pardon form first or does it not matter in what order you obtain the forms??


No, do the padron at your leisure, the NIE and the Residencia, which are now ONE form apparantly are your priority


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## dosprompt

Stravinsky said:


> No, do the padron at your leisure, the NIE and the Residencia, which are now ONE form apparantly are your priority


Thanks for the reply......


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## graeme21

Hi all
New to this site. And just reading some posts. I see there have been no recent posts on this subject. But just to add to the information, I live in the Comunidad Valencia region and in our little town, if you need to use the Padron for any 'officialdom' matters it is only valid for 3 months. If you need an up to date one, you just visit the Ayuntamiento and request a new one. We don't pay for new one, but I understand in some places they do charge a nominal fee.


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## SteveHall

The following original documents are now accepted to register or change registration for the padron at Playa Flamenca Town Hall:
1. A national identity document, driving licence, passport or residence card in the case of non-Spanish citizens, and family book/birth certificate in the case where minors are to be registered;
2. One of the following documents to prove you live in the property:
a. Title deeds of the Spanish property
b. Electricity or water bill, fixed-line telephone bill, or household SUMA bill
c. Rental contract
In the case of registration of a minor you will have to present authorisation from the parents with an identity document, such as a passport, and the family book/birth certificate.
Documents presented must be originals together with a photocopy of the originals.


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## SteveHall

EXMO. AYUNTAMIENTO DE SAN MIGUEL DE SALINAS
DEPARTMENT OF ESTADISTICA
INFORMATION for FOREIGN RESIDENTS:
The Padron of Inhabitants (residents) is an administrative registration in which all the people that
reside in a municipality are listed. Inclusion in the Padron confers the right of citizens to services
such as the education of their children, healthcare and the right to exercise their vote in elections.
HIGH: according to Spanish legislation, every person that resides habitually in Spain has an
obligation to be registered in the municipality where they reside for the most part of the year.
Once registration on the Padron of Inhabitants is completed the person will be issued with a
certificate from The Town Hall enabling them to request a healthcare card from The Health
Centre.
LOW: When a previously registered person transfers their residence to another municipality in
Spain, the person is required to register at The Town Hall of the municipality where he/her intends
to reside and making a new application indicating which Padron of Municipal Inhabitants he/her
was previously registered. When a foreigner goes to live permanently in another Country (i.e. out
of Spain) they should present, in writing, a request to the Town Hall to be removed from the
municipal Padron from the date of the change of address.
Similarly, when a foreigner, so registered, dies whilst abroad, it is a legal requirement for the next
of kin or the deceased’s legal representative to notify The Town Hall, where that person resided,
and present a death certificate to enable the Town Hall to remove that deceased person from the
Padron of Inhabitants.
ELECTORAL CENSUS: All persons who are citizens of member countries of the European
Union, and not being of Spanish Nationality, have the right to vote in the municipal elections in
the municipality of the town in which they are properly registered. It is however necessary to
declare in writing their intention to exercise this right in order to be included in the Electoral
Census. Spanish legislation establishes that the National Institute of Statistics is required to
communicate with them, in writing, before each electoral process. On occasions the operation of
the mail system is such, particularly in some urbanizations, that distribution of the correspondence
is not completed. A very high number of these notification letters are not delivered to their
recipients, preventing the effected citizens from exercising their right to vote. Those people that
intend to exercise their right to vote in any forthcoming elections, can apply to the Town Hall, and there sign a declaration to that effect. The Town Hall will submit the information to the National Institute of Statistics to ensure their inclusion in the Electoral Census.


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## stevegoodman

I have two houses in Spain ans split my time between the two. Although they are only about 1 kms apart, they come under different town halls. Which do I sign on with, or is it both?


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## SteveHall

You can ONLY register with one and it should be the one you are "habitually resident" at


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## mrypg9

Today we went to the Foreign Police Office in Estepona to get our NIE.To do this you need a one-page A4 form you can download from the internet, thanks to Stravinsky,your passport and one photocopy of it. On the A4 form you write only your name, address, date of birth, passport number and reason for living in Spain and the first names of your parents, e.g. Jan and Jana.We got there at 9.00 a.m., were given a number - 28 - on a slip of paper, waited an hour in a very pleasant, light and airy office with comfortable chairs. When our turn came, a very kind lady who spoke good English took the form we had downloaded from the internet plus the photocopy and after two minutes she gave us a piece of paper each, told us to go to the nearest bank, pay 10 euros each, get the paper stamped and bring it back to her. The nearest bank was 50 metres away, we paid, got the papers stamped, returned to the Police and the kind lady immediately took our documents, stamped them and gave us an official form with our NIE number. I then asked her how to get a Permanent Residence Permit and she said she had given us a lifelong one with our NIE as we had written on our NIE application that we wished to live permanently in Spain!!!
I am still reeling from the shock at how easy it was, compared to getting a temporary residence permit in Prague. You really don't need a lawyer as the process is so simple and the most basic knowledge of Spanish will suffice.
Thanks again to Stravinsky for making the forms accessible.
And I opened a bank account here BEFORE I got my NIE -just showed passport and gave my address. 
Now for the next task -transferring to my ownership of a Landrover with left-hand drive, on Spanish plates. I have all necessary documentation, including Certificate of Conformity, itv etc.
Any helpful advice would be most welcome


----------



## Guest

mrypg9 said:


> Today we went to the Foreign Police Office in Estepona to get our NIE.To do this you need a one-page A4 form you can download from the internet, thanks to Stravinsky,your passport and one photocopy of it. On the A4 form you write only your name, address, date of birth, passport number and reason for living in Spain and the first names of your parents, e.g. Jan and Jana.We got there at 9.00 a.m., were given a number - 28 - on a slip of paper, waited an hour in a very pleasant, light and airy office with comfortable chairs. When our turn came, a very kind lady who spoke good English took the form we had downloaded from the internet plus the photocopy and after two minutes she gave us a piece of paper each, told us to go to the nearest bank, pay 10 euros each, get the paper stamped and bring it back to her. The nearest bank was 50 metres away, we paid, got the papers stamped, returned to the Police and the kind lady immediately took our documents, stamped them and gave us an official form with our NIE number. I then asked her how to get a Permanent Residence Permit and she said she had given us a lifelong one with our NIE as we had written on our NIE application that we wished to live permanently in Spain!!!
> I am still reeling from the shock at how easy it was, compared to getting a temporary residence permit in Prague. You really don't need a lawyer as the process is so simple and the most basic knowledge of Spanish will suffice.
> Thanks again to Stravinsky for making the forms accessible.
> And I opened a bank account here BEFORE I got my NIE -just showed passport and gave my address.
> Now for the next task -transferring to my ownership of a Landrover with left-hand drive, on Spanish plates. I have all necessary documentation, including Certificate of Conformity, itv etc.
> Any helpful advice would be most welcome


Your post is really interesting and proves how differently thing can turn out in Spain, depending the civil servants and the place you do your paperwork. 
I am Swiss and my wife and stepson are Filipinos. Following the bilateral conventions between Switzerland and Spain we (the whole family) is entitled to the same status as a Spaniards, with the only exception that we can not vote. But my wife did need to stay for 8 weeks in Manila in order to get her family regroupment visa. After arriving in Alicante it was very difficult to get the right information, where to go and what to do. Finally they gave a list with requirement and we had to do a “sita” per Internet. After three weeks the we went to the sita and it turned out that the civil servant forgot to put on the list that the birth certificate of my stepson has to be legalized by the “Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores” in Madrid. They gave us 10 days to do this, but where not able to explain how to do it. We only found out, because we did happen to know someone who also had to do the same thing. Thank to the numerous “dias festivos” they did accept our legalization even as it was more as 10 days….
And now, the big paradox. Last week more the 2 weeks after all was settled, a very friendly lady from the “Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores” did call me for asking if everything was ok with our paperwork, or if we do need some help!
Spain seams like one of those countries with the best and the worst.


----------



## john j

*nie card*

If you have to go to the police station to get them, where do you go to renew them? I need to do mine soon!

Thanks!


----------



## mrypg9

john j said:


> If you have to go to the police station to get them, where do you go to renew them? I need to do mine soon!
> 
> Thanks!


I went to Estepona, it's our 'local'.


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## mrypg9

mrypg9 said:


> I went to Estepona, it's our 'local'.


Sorry, John, didn't read your post properly. I presume you go to the police station for renewal. Buyt once you have one, isn't it 'for life'?


----------



## Guest

NIE is for life. I have mine since 10 years and no renewal needed. Even if you leave the country and come back a few years later, it is still the same.
some banks do ask for a NIE number if you want to have a resident bank account. If it is non resident, then it may be different. But this seams not to be applied in very consistent way. I was resident of Spain for several years and found out that my account was non resident, even that they had my NIE.....


----------



## mrypg9

Eva33 said:


> NIE is for life. I have mine since 10 years and no renewal needed. Even if you leave the country and come back a few years later, it is still the same.
> some banks do ask for a NIE number if you want to have a resident bank account. If it is non resident, then it may be different. But this seams not to be applied in very consistent way. I was resident of Spain for several years and found out that my account was non resident, even that they had my NIE.....



Yes, I have quickly learnt that there is no 'one size fits all' rule here!!!!


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## flyboy

I spoke to a friend regarding this matter, he has lived here for sometime and he tells me that no one is bothering about registering, not even the officials. I move out at the end of the month so I think I will suck it and see.


----------



## mrypg9

flyboy said:


> I spoke to a friend regarding this matter, he has lived here for sometime and he tells me that no one is bothering about registering, not even the officials. I move out at the end of the month so I think I will suck it and see.



If you're moving on, there's no point in registering. But if you are here permanently, then I think life would be fairly difficult without a NIE -you need a NIE for registering a car in your name and if you have income from investments in Spanish financial institutions,indeed any income, for tax purposes.
We went the whole hog -NIE, Residencia, Certificado de Empadronamiento - as this is now our home. As someone pointed out earlier, local government receives income from central government based on the number of registered inhabitants so if you want better roads, street lighting etc it makes sense to register and add to the local income.
If you are a temporary resident, you won't be concerned about these things.
Incidentally.....we have only lived three months on the so-called 'Golden Mile' but we have already sensed that there are a lot of people here who are, to put it tactfully, not what they seem.
Some might use the word 'dodgy'....


----------



## Burriana Babs

Yes it is very important that you register for the padron and your NIE. You will find you will need both often. It is not that difficult and well worth the effort.


----------



## chris(madrid)

Eva33 said:


> NIE is for life. I have mine since 10 years and no renewal needed.


NUMBER - YES, CARD - NO. My card expires this year (as would a Spanish DNI) - the reason is to ensure address and foto are recent. I would rather carry a NIE than a passport. Not sure whether the NIE-CARD can be solicited with Digital Certification chip. For long stay users - This will be become a REAL boon as of 1/1/2010.


----------



## Guest

chris(madrid) said:


> NUMBER - YES, CARD - NO. My card expires this year (as would a Spanish DNI) - the reason is to ensure address and foto are recent. I would rather carry a NIE than a passport. Not sure whether the NIE-CARD can be solicited with Digital Certification chip. For long stay users - This will be become a REAL boon as of 1/1/2010.


What nationality are you Chris? E.U. nationals do not have NIE/DNI card! So I am wondering what we will have to renew apart of communicating our new address in case of moving to another place. I do not understand the problem about 1/1/2010. I think I missed something here... 
Sometime I think that the Spaniards do install administration systems, as cards, DNI, residence permits and several others, before even really having thought about them in depth. The result is complete lack of transparency and many complicated, time consuming and unnecessary proceedings.


----------



## chris(madrid)

I'm EU(Brit) and DO have a card. The first issued in 94ish was only valid 5 years and renewed in '99 for 10. Wheterh it can be renewed . I've to find out.

1/1/2010 brings a new law into place for the electronic access of personal information. A digiCert ID card will speedup the process NO END as it will eliminate forms. It's quite the reverse of a problem - it will be a MAJOR help if you have one. 

Actually Spain had everything pretty well planned - and then the EU made them unplan a bit.


----------



## mrypg9

Burriana Babs said:


> Yes it is very important that you register for the padron and your NIE. You will find you will need both often. It is not that difficult and well worth the effort.


Yes, it isn't difficut at all -not if our experience is anything to go by, anyway. Our local town hall was very helpful.
Iknow about the many uses of the NIE but not too sure about the padron. 
We get a tax discount and can vote in local and European elections, can't we -but is there anything else?


----------



## Guest

chris(madrid) said:


> I'm EU(Brit) and DO have a card. The first issued in 94ish was only valid 5 years and renewed in '99 for 10. Wheterh it can be renewed . I've to find out.
> 
> 1/1/2010 brings a new law into place for the electronic access of personal information. A digiCert ID card will speedup the process NO END as it will eliminate forms. It's quite the reverse of a problem - it will be a MAJOR help if you have one.
> 
> Actually Spain had everything pretty well planned - and then the EU made them unplan a bit.


As a Brit (EU special..) you have a card, as a Swiss (non EU special...) I do not need one, and actually there is no card for Swiss and other Schengen countries in existence! Of course I have a NIE, am "empadronado" and have a social security/ health care insurance. Logical, no...
As for the well planned, you could be right, but when one arrive in this country and not knowing about the procedures in order to get your papers, it is not straight forward at all. We were asked several times then same documents, and after three month of having been registered as resident, my wife (non EU) did still not receive her ID card, but only a piece of paper.
Some people are lucky and live in smaller towns where they can find help quite easily, but if you read the innumerable problems reported on this site, you will probably agree that it is not this easy. I hope you are right about this digiCert ID card, let's see...


----------



## Guest

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, it isn't difficut at all -not if our experience is anything to go by, anyway. Our local town hall was very helpful.
> Iknow about the many uses of the NIE but not too sure about the padron.
> We get a tax discount and can vote in local and European elections, can't we -but is there anything else?


You will need your NIE number (and also padron) very often. For example while receiving a package with the post, send a registered letter, many banks do ask for it, if you want some discounts after 65 years old etc. etc. etc.


----------



## chris(madrid)

mrypg9 said:


> Iknow about the many uses of the NIE but not too sure about the padron.


The Padron is often THE POINT OF REFERENCE for anything that needs certification of address. Very necessary for schooling. You will often be asked by other entities for a Certificate of en*padron*amiento as a prerequisite to applying for services. This can only be issued if you are on the Padron. 

Note it's VERY controlled data. In a town hall there is a small (registered) group of folk who have access - and less still allowed to make alterations.


----------



## chris(madrid)

Eva33 said:


> Some people are lucky and live in smaller towns where they can find help quite easily, ... I hope you are right about this digiCert ID card, let's see...


The issuing Authority is POLICIA NACIONAL in the name of the interior ministry. I'm off to see them next week - see if I can make an fixed time appointment (normally you can) today.

Edited to add - was advised by the office I called today that it'll be faster NOT making an appointment. Was told just to turn up with current UK passport (and a copy) plus current NIE card (and a copy). Guess where I'll be on Monday? - Watch this space


----------



## mrypg9

chris(madrid) said:


> The Padron is often THE POINT OF REFERENCE for anything that needs certification of address. Very necessary for schooling. You will often be asked by other entities for a Certificate of en*padron*amiento as a prerequisite to applying for services. This can only be issued if you are on the Padron.
> 
> Note it's VERY controlled data. In a town hall there is a small (registered) group of folk who have access - and less still allowed to make alterations.



Thanks for that. Schooling won't be a requirement -more like joint replacements, alas.....
I'm sure you're right about problems with bureaucracy too, especially in larger towns. There are three very helpful people in our little Ayuntamiento, all eager to give me Spanish lessons as well as help with documentation. I'm usually the only customer. Larger municipalities are bound to be more impersonal.
Whatever the problems, there can be no comparison with our experiences of 'getting legal' in Prague. Sour, resentful 'public servants', impenetrable bureaucracy - usually eased on production of a sizeable amount of cash paid via intermediaries. And all in sub-zero temperatures for a good three or four months of the year.
Y viva Espana indeed....


----------



## flyboy

Yes I am going to register for the NIE and Padron but not resident.


----------



## 8593rebecca

*Residency issues*

Hi my hubby and I live in Ginestar and it looks likely to be permanent, we have our NIE numbers, basically, do we need to register as residents of Spain, what is the Padron? Certificate? Do you have a link to the E16 form? Can you help on how to complete it? I understood there are various forms of registration, e.g. permanent, temporary? We need to be sure that whatever we do it will not affect our pension entitlement when it kicks in, in a few years.

Can you help.


----------



## mrypg9

8593rebecca said:


> Hi my hubby and I live in Ginestar and it looks likely to be permanent, we have our NIE numbers, basically, do we need to register as residents of Spain, what is the Padron? Certificate? Do you have a link to the E16 form? Can you help on how to complete it? I understood there are various forms of registration, e.g. permanent, temporary? We need to be sure that whatever we do it will not affect our pension entitlement when it kicks in, in a few years.
> 
> Can you help.


I'm no expert as I've only been here three months but in my experience the forms you need to fill in are basic and simple -names, date and place of birth, nationality etc.
We got residencia simultaneously with our NIEs as we stated that we intended to live here permanently. We don't work so explained that we had taken early retirement. You need residencia if you wish at some later stage - i.e. on official retirement date - to transfer from the NHS to the Spanish system as well as other things such as educating your children, if tthat is applicable.
The Padron seems similar to going on the electoral register. You are officially registered as resident at your address in your municipality. I believe you get certain tax concessions and it's easier when you need to do certain things (not sure what) and you get a vote in local and European elections, but not for elections to the Cortes.
The more established expats on this site will fill in any omissions but my main point would be that you get many benefits from a very little effort.


----------



## chris(madrid)

chris(madrid) said:


> Guess where I'll be on Monday? - Watch this space


Well, that's that done - fairly quickly attended. 

Now just have to return next week to collect said document. And (DAMMIT!) it'll be a certificate not a card. 

The WORST it was, and will be worse still next week because I was told to go later, the traffic. Ker'ist!.


----------



## 8593rebecca

*E16*



Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 30 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


We don't have a padron certificate, what is it? And where would we get one?

Thanks

Rebecca


----------



## 8593rebecca

*E16*



mrypg9 said:


> I'm no expert as I've only been here three months but in my experience the forms you need to fill in are basic and simple -names, date and place of birth, nationality etc.
> We got residencia simultaneously with our NIEs as we stated that we intended to live here permanently. We don't work so explained that we had taken early retirement. You need residencia if you wish at some later stage - i.e. on official retirement date - to transfer from the NHS to the Spanish system as well as other things such as educating your children, if tthat is applicable.
> The Padron seems similar to going on the electoral register. You are officially registered as resident at your address in your municipality. I believe you get certain tax concessions and it's easier when you need to do certain things (not sure what) and you get a vote in local and European elections, but not for elections to the Cortes.
> The more established expats on this site will fill in any omissions but my main point would be that you get many benefits from a very little effort.


Ah, we are hopefully doing a newbuild so we should get a padron when the property is built?


----------



## chris(madrid)

Hi - MY RECOMMENDATION is get on teh padron as soon as you can. If you have a rental address use it - and change address when you have the house built. There are some services where the time you've been on the PADRON makes a difference.

It's basicaly the local CENSUS - register at the town halll.


----------



## Stravinsky

mrypg9 said:


> You need residencia if you wish at some later stage - i.e. on official retirement date - to transfer from the NHS to the Spanish system as well as other things such as educating your children, if tthat is applicable.


Err just to clarify this ...... you need a residencia, full stop, if you reside here. Going onto the spanish system, kids, etc has nothing to do with the requirement.

I may have misunderstood you, but you actually "transfer out" of the NHS as soon as you no longer reside in the UK. Many people think that you can just pop back when you need treatment, but legally you cant ..... it would be fraudulent


----------



## mrypg9

Stravinsky said:


> Err just to clarify this ...... you need a residencia, full stop, if you reside here. Going onto the spanish system, kids, etc has nothing to do with the requirement.
> 
> I may have misunderstood you, but you actually "transfer out" of the NHS as soon as you no longer reside in the UK. Many people think that you can just pop back when you need treatment, but legally you cant ..... it would be fraudulent


I'm aware that you can't get treatment, in the UK, apart from emergency treatment, once you leave the UK NHS. I transferred to the Czech system for the last year I was there so know all about the rules and regs. You are actually required to send your UK EHIC back once you're officially off the NHS books!
I wonder whether the Spanish residencia somewhat resembles the Czech 'Temporary Residence Permit' in that you may never use it or be asked to show you have it unless you work or have children or are retired and need health cover? I was required to show evidence of possession of this wretched Czech permit, the aquisition of which cost me £300 as I paid an Agency rather than plough my way through the maze of Czech bureaucracy, only once -when registering a car I bought.
My son and daughter-in-law have properties here and spend a lot of time in Spain although their principle place of residence is the UK. They have a NIE for tax purposes but no residencia although the total of days spent here could add up to three figures. Presumably they should have one -but how do you prove the number of days spent here? I used to fly from Prague to London and back once a week and not once was my passport stamped. Yet stern regulations required you to get registered with the local police withi 30 days of arriving in the Czech Republic....
I've been driving a UK plated left-hand drive car since I got here and once,in Estepona, had to show documents to the Policia when I parked where I shouldn't have. (The very nice policemen decided not to fine me) They were totally disinterested in my car details, how long I'd had the vehicle here, didn't want to see licence, insurance details or even my passport. They just wanted my NIE.
I suppose it all depends...


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## chris(madrid)

I can tell you that the local police in the Town hall I work in - have been told (by the mayor) to start checking foreign plated cars and NIE's. And also insurance. This as of last month. Right now ANY excuse to recuperate revenue is been taken. In larger towns the effort may be too great. 

The GC is also stepping up spot checks. If they are in ANY doubt - the vehicle will be impounded. The GC ime will check ALL PAPERS - every time - as will national Police (Trafico). Unlike the local police they are specifically sent out to trap traffic violators.


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## mrypg9

chris(madrid) said:


> I can tell you that the local police in the Town hall I work in - have been told (by the mayor) to start checking foreign plated cars and NIE's. And also insurance. This as of last month. Right now ANY excuse to recuperate revenue is been taken. In larger towns the effort may be too great.
> 
> The GC is also stepping up spot checks. If they are in ANY doubt - the vehicle will be impounded. The GC ime will check ALL PAPERS - every time - as will national Police (Trafico). Unlike the local police they are specifically sent out to trap traffic violators.



And quite right too. Why should people get away with dodging taxes of any kind? 
Our UK plated car has tax until November, full European insurance and doesn't yet need an MOT. Insurance alone was nearly £900. Why should others get a 'free ride'?Our Spanish plated 4x4 has all the correct paperwork too. Presumably most expats here do what is required. It annoys me when people think they can get away with flouting laws or dodging taxes.
It just struck me as odd that the police weren't all at interested in anything other than my NIE. After all, what's the first thing UK police ask for?
Licence, insurance details, MOT if applicable.................


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## susanspain

I have read with interest all the Q's & As.. from Residency, to NIE, to ID cards (NIE & DNI are not the same - although as one member says the number of the NIE is the same as the DNI card - which infact no longer exisits - you just get a piece of paper/'cerificate' of residency but it no longer has a photo so is pretty useless as you are now officiall required to carry photo ID too - i.e your passport (although I have been advised the UK photo licence is good enough - as long as it is the original) 

Likewise there is info about Empadronmento, car transfers, ownership of cars, tax, NI, Social Secutiry, health system, tax in Spain/UK etc, etc. 

Sadly it is a minefield out there (10 years of wading through the system has taught me nothing is straighforward and we are often at the mercy of 'professionals' giving us the right advice - and often paying them - only to find out it might have been 'wrong/bad advice'. Also that it 100% depends on whom you are dealing with at the time). 

I have always been happy to be 'legal' here.. But the more I think about it/encounter difficulties - the less I want to. (This is not particularly based on too many bad experiences, but more to do with the reciprocal EU laws seem to have little to do with how Spain views the process).


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## chris(madrid)

susanspain said:


> although as one member says the number of the NIE is the same as the DNI card - which infact no longer exisits


It does still exist - BUT not for everybody. 

EU/Schengen citizens (plus one or two others) are considered accredited using their country of origens ID - the NIE cert being "administrative" - But true immigrants NEED an ID.

As was posted here (first page) - Spain wanted to do away with IDs for EU citizens - and was forced to comply - So unsure why that's Spains fault for a bureaucratic process. 

To date the processes seem frankly easier day by day - and no different to that a Spaniard has to pursue. The problem is that many (and it's especially so for Anglo Saxons apparently) seen reluctant to adapt.

The easy way to find out what you need - is ask the authorities directly - imo they're ALL helpful. Of course you do need to be fluent in Spanish.


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## mrypg9

susanspain said:


> I have read with interest all the Q's & As.. from Residency, to NIE, to ID cards (NIE & DNI are not the same - although as one member says the number of the NIE is the same as the DNI card - which infact no longer exisits - you just get a piece of paper/'cerificate' of residency but it no longer has a photo so is pretty useless as you are now officiall required to carry photo ID too - i.e your passport (although I have been advised the UK photo licence is good enough - as long as it is the original)
> 
> Likewise there is info about Empadronmento, car transfers, ownership of cars, tax, NI, Social Secutiry, health system, tax in Spain/UK etc, etc.
> 
> Sadly it is a minefield out there (10 years of wading through the system has taught me nothing is straighforward and we are often at the mercy of 'professionals' giving us the right advice - and often paying them - only to find out it might have been 'wrong/bad advice'. Also that it 100% depends on whom you are dealing with at the time).
> 
> I have always been happy to be 'legal' here.. But the more I think about it/encounter difficulties - the less I want to. (This is not particularly based on too many bad experiences, but more to do with the reciprocal EU laws seem to have little to do with how Spain views the process).


That certainly reflects my experience in my years in the Czech Republic. Interpretation of laws and regulations depended largely on the knowledge/lack of them on the part of the officials and also involved individual susceptibility to bribery and even whether the official in question had had a row with his/her partner that morning.
It also depended, as in my sofar limited experience of Spain also seems the case, on how you 'manage' your encounters with officialdom. In fact, I'd say this could well be the number one factor -in some cases, at least. I managed to avoid a large fine for illegal -and stupid -parking by simply being very contrite and 'umble and conversing in reasonably comprehensible Spanish with the Policia Local who surrounded my illicitly parked vehicle!
This would not have been the case in Prague unless a large banknote was discretely proferred.
Refusal to do this cost me a lot in Czech crowns for traffic 'offences' that weren't really offences. I always insisted on the police officers writing out complex and lengthy receipts as my little bit of retaliation.
It's always best to be 'legal' wherever you are but sometimes the effort is not really worth the outcome,as you seem to imply.The more countries you've lived in as an expat and the more languages you are reasonably fluent in, the more you come to realise this rather sad fact.
As I said, I'm a newcomer here and on a fast learning curve, helped by this site. It does seem though that there are a few older, less experienced expats who have come to Spain as first-time residents in a foreign country and who are understandably uber-cautious, especially if their knowledge of Spanish is minimal.
I'm going to follow their example, at least until I feel my feet are well under the Spanish table!


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## chris(madrid)

SO THEN - I now have my nice new crisp "certificate of residency".

Couple of things struck me

1) NO EXPIRY DATE
2) It's VERY specific that it does NOT constitute proof of ID - unless accompanied by an ID from country of origin - for Brits that means passport.

I asked if it can be folded - it can.

Oddly was allowed to keep my OLD ID CARD. Was told that whilst it's no longer legal - it was easier to carry. Oh well - I shan't be carrying mine A4 sheet about, then. Just hope the new plastic driving licence is issued in June and I can carry one bit of paper less.


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## mrypg9

chris(madrid) said:


> SO THEN - I now have my nice new crisp "certificate of residency".
> 
> Couple of things struck me
> 
> 1) NO EXPIRY DATE
> 2) It's VERY specific that it does NOT constitute proof of ID - unless accompanied by an ID from country of origin - for Brits that means passport.
> 
> I asked if it can be folded - it can.
> 
> Oddly was allowed to keep my OLD ID CARD. Was told that whilst it's no longer legal - it was easier to carry. Oh well - I shan't be carrying mine A4 sheet about, then. Just hope the new plastic driving licence is issued in June and I can carry one bit of paper less.



When I got my certificate I asked when it expired and was told it was 'forever'.......


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## chris(madrid)

mrypg9 said:


> When I got my certificate I asked when it expired and was told it was 'forever'.......


Absolutely - BUT really it's only valid as long as you have another VALID ID (Passport or ID card). Basically it's only of real use if you need to demonstrate to some form of authority that you are in fact legally resident.

Note that id stopped by police etc - this will not be proof of ID - You will need something else. imo - this will be a SERIOUS reason to get a Spanish drivers licence if you live here full time.


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## djrickyb

For future reference for people in La Linea.

I went there to get an application and all she asked for was my passport!
I gave her NIE as well but I can't be sure she used it.

The "Certificado de Empadronamiento" was in my hands in less than 10 minutes!!
No fee, no other identification, contract etc.


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## EP GAZZ

So how about if your permanent residence is in America, you will be paid in America and will be private for health and school.

Do you still sign you are resident there ?

I am just interested as it seems to be a way that they leverage funding for local services and if I am not using them is that right?


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## alano

This is an interesting thread. I have been in Spain for about 9 months now, and I anticipate being here for 9 months out of every year. Lovely country!

One thing I am unclear of... is it a legal requirement to register if you have been in Spain for more than 6 months? I now understand that the local authority will benefit from additional funding if I do register, but I need to know the urgency of doing so (I already have a NIE number, but no other documents).

What is the difference between a Padron and a Certificado de Empadronamiento? Do I need one/both, or are they just "useful"?

Thanks in advance,
Alan


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## Xose

alano said:


> This is an interesting thread. I have been in Spain for about 9 months now, and I anticipate being here for 9 months out of every year. Lovely country!
> 
> One thing I am unclear of... is it a legal requirement to register if you have been in Spain for more than 6 months? I now understand that the local authority will benefit from additional funding if I do register, but I need to know the urgency of doing so (I already have a NIE number, but no other documents).
> 
> What is the difference between a Padron and a Certificado de Empadronamiento? Do I need one/both, or are they just "useful"?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Alan


The "Legal" requirement is that you register in the ayuntamiento. If you drive a car, for example, and you pay road tax, that is based on where you live. 
Your NIE will have an address linked to it. Guardia Civil don't like it when the paperwork does not reflect reality if you get pulled over, and the fine is no joke.

Also, after the half year (183 days) you're supposed to be resident and declaring income to the Tax authorities if applicable, and the like. The limits on foreign earnings, profit and loss on just about any capital investment for having to declare are VERY small and nothing to do with the 28K an employee has to earn before having to do a declaration

Goes without saying, a ghost who owns nothing locally and has no red tape needs can survive as long as chance will have it, but it is chance and not due process.

As for the local government services being used or not, people often forget that it is the local police who will be the primary response to an event, the roads are fixed (local roads), the bins are emptied, the co-ordination for ambulance servic es, fire brigade ... etc., etc. One assumes some if not all of these are used even if it is purely from a security and not direct response requirement.


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## alano

Thanks Xose, that's a very helpful reply.

I'm pleased to report that I am trying to do "the right thing" and my lawyer did help me pay Spanish Wealth tax on one of the properties I own here.

My situation is complicated by the fact that I own two properties but live in a rented one. My NIE is linked to one of the properties I own, but is under a different ayuntamiento.

I will be buying a second-hand Spanish car in 2 weeks' time. I presume I will therefore need to change the NI address to the rented property in which I live (because it is to this ayuntamiento that I will have to pay my car tax)?

I have only been renting for 5 months, but I have owned the properties for 2 years - so I am really unsure about where to register!!!

Any suggestions?

What precisely is it that I need to ask for at the ayuntamiento? a Padron or a Certificado de Empadronamineto?

Cheers,
Alan


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## Xose

alano said:


> Thanks Xose, that's a very helpful reply.
> 
> I'm pleased to report that I am trying to do "the right thing" and my lawyer did help me pay Spanish Wealth tax on one of the properties I own here.
> 
> My situation is complicated by the fact that I own two properties but live in a rented one. My NIE is linked to one of the properties I own, but is under a different ayuntamiento.
> 
> I will be buying a second-hand Spanish car in 2 weeks' time. I presume I will therefore need to change the NI address to the rented property in which I live (because it is to this ayuntamiento that I will have to pay my car tax)?
> 
> I have only been renting for 5 months, but I have owned the properties for 2 years - so I am really unsure about where to register!!!
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> What precisely is it that I need to ask for at the ayuntamiento? a Padron or a Certificado de Empadronamineto?
> 
> Cheers,
> Alan



As Steve said, you should register where you live. So I guess wherever you're renting as this appears to be your current home.

All you need to do is go to the ayuntamiento and tell them you want to be empadronado. Take your ID or ID's (passport also) to be on the safe side. It takes very little time.

What papers you get after that will be up to you. I would take a couple of Empadronamiento sheets stamped by them as these are deemed "original" and so will be the ones wanted by any official body..... not a fotocopy.

Be aware, in my ayuntamiento in any case, a "Certificado de Empadronamiento" is a fairly heavy piece of red tape. In the case of this document, the local police go to the address to verify who lives there.  I've never needed one yet but I suspect it's for things like multiple family claims on the social services under the one household or some such.


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## Martin Walsh

My wife and I have just been accepted as teachers at a school in Mercia and the barrister attached to the school will be contacting us soon with other information for us, what other questions apart from the Residency and Padron certificates can you think to ask??? We are both EU natives with full eu passports.

Think I will be a regular visitor here from now on - great


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## Guest

I'm living on a campsite at the moment and expect to stay here for a year or perhaps even longer. (It's a lot cheaper than owning or renting a house and I have a microscopic income.) I think this will be acceptable in an application for an NIE, which I hope to do this week, but what about the Padrón? Should I sign on here anyway? After all, I'm using the roads and rubbish bins, etc. and will surely need or want to use other services.


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## Xose

Feyness said:


> I'm living on a campsite at the moment and expect to stay here for a year or perhaps even longer. (It's a lot cheaper than owning or renting a house and I have a microscopic income.) I think this will be acceptable in an application for an NIE, which I hope to do this week, but what about the Padrón? Should I sign on here anyway? After all, I'm using the roads and rubbish bins, etc. and will surely need or want to use other services.


Hi there,
The IBI, "Rubbish collections" are registered to houses - so not sure how this would work with a campsite. One assumes whomever is running it will have his own, business registration, and so paying whatever that is every (whatever period in your area) 6 months here where I live.

The Padron is done at your town hall and it will all depend if they see the campsite as an official residence or not. Clearly, they will know it and its use/license so that if people can legally stay there for long periods, then one assumes all the local registration capabilities follow. You need the Certificado de Empadronamiento for so many things that things like Road Tax, would be impossible for anyone living there who has a car. Also, registering with a Doctor etc.

Also not sure down your way but I have known people go for their NIE (or residency certificate as I believe they are now) and got asked for their Certificado de Empadronamiento.

Good luck,

Xose


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## Guest

Xose said:


> Also not sure down your way but I have known people go for their NIE (or residency certificate as I believe they are now) and got asked for their Certificado de Empadronamiento.
> Xose


Gosh, Xose, I'm glad you mentioned that. I asked a (Spanish) girl here and she says she's fairly sure that they will ask for a Certificado de Empadronamiento, so I'd have gone through all the hassle and queuing for nothing. The campsite owner says he'll write me an attestation in the morning, so that I can get one from the Ayuntamiento before going to apply for the NIE.

Another question, although I supose it'll be answered when I apply:
My British passport (I am British) is still in my married name, although I've been divorced for ages, but all my other papers are in my maiden name, because I've been living in France and they do everything in your maiden name. I think the officials in Spain will want a passport from my country of nationality, won't they, rather than an ID card or Carte de Séjour (residency card) from France? Shall I just take everything and see what happens, or what? When I renewed my passport through the British Consulate in Paris, I did ask for it to be in my maiden name, but for some unreason they ignored my request, so I'm stuck with a passport that doesn't match anything else. I'm loth to apply for a new passport, as it takes a while and costs so much. Should I try just using my French ID card, that's in my maiden name and matches my driving licence, etc,. or will they want a passport? (I've only used the French card so far, to register at the campsite and so on.) perhaps if I get the Certificado de Empadronamiento with the French ID card, the rest will follow, or will they insist on a passport. (Even the Pensions Office in the U.K. uses my maiden name - it's only the passport that's wrong.)

I could just use the passport and if they ask why my driving licence, etc. are in my maiden name and are from France, I can explain. Perhaps that's the answer - but then, if I get an E121 and it's in a different name... I can feel my brain frying.


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## Xose

Feyness said:


> Gosh, Xose, I'm glad you mentioned that. I asked a (Spanish) girl here and she says she's fairly sure that they will ask for a Certificado de Empadronamiento, so I'd have gone through all the hassle and queuing for nothing. The campsite owner says he'll write me an attestation in the morning, so that I can get one from the Ayuntamiento before going to apply for the NIE.
> 
> Another question, although I supose it'll be answered when I apply:
> My British passport (I am British) is still in my married name, although I've been divorced for ages, but all my other papers are in my maiden name, because I've been living in France and they do everything in your maiden name. I think the officials in Spain will want a passport from my country of nationality, won't they, rather than an ID card or Carte de Séjour (residency card) from France? Shall I just take everything and see what happens, or what? When I renewed my passport through the British Consulate in Paris, I did ask for it to be in my maiden name, but for some unreason they ignored my request, so I'm stuck with a passport that doesn't match anything else. I'm loth to apply for a new passport, as it takes a while and costs so much. Should I try just using my French ID card, that's in my maiden name and matches my driving licence, etc,. or will they want a passport? (I've only used the French card so far, to register at the campsite and so on.) perhaps if I get the Certificado de Empadronamiento with the French ID card, the rest will follow, or will they insist on a passport. (Even the Pensions Office in the U.K. uses my maiden name - it's only the passport that's wrong.)
> 
> I could just use the passport and if they ask why my driving licence, etc. are in my maiden name and are from France, I can explain. Perhaps that's the answer - but then, if I get an E121 and it's in a different name... I can feel my brain frying.



That's a tough one. I've no idea if they would take a French ID card given that your NIE would show you as a British National...not French. Your options are limited as I'm sure they won't accept a passport with one name and issue a Padron or NIE with another.

In terms of officialdom here, your passport ID's you, that's you (married name, mayden name etc is not a Spanish thing) your name is what your official ID says it is, and today, in Spain, that's your passport. Padron and NIE will reflect this. No one is to say that your name is different - why should it be, Ivana Trump is divorced but remains Ivana Trump.

If you, one day, go down the route of getting a passport with your maiden name by supplying the Decree Absolute copies etc., etc., and lord knows what else, then at this stage you should worry about tidying up the Padron and NIE, but today you are who your passport says you are.

Hope the process is smooth and headache free for you.
Xose


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## Guest

Xose said:


> That's a tough one. I've no idea if they would take a French ID card given that your NIE would show you as a British National...not French. Your options are limited as I'm sure they won't accept a passport with one name and issue a Padron or NIE with another.
> 
> In terms of officialdom here, your passport ID's you, that's you (married name, mayden name etc is not a Spanish thing) your name is what your official ID says it is, and today, in Spain, that's your passport. Padron and NIE will reflect this. No one is to say that your name is different - why should it be, Ivana Trump is divorced but remains Ivana Trump.
> 
> If you, one day, go down the route of getting a passport with your maiden name by supplying the Decree Absolute copies etc., etc., and lord knows what else, then at this stage you should worry about tidying up the Padron and NIE, but today you are who your passport says you are.
> 
> Hope the process is smooth and headache free for you.
> Xose


Thank you, Xose, for the reply and for answering so late at night, as it means I can go ahead tomorrow. I'll just use my passport then - it'll be much easier to ask the U.K. pensions office to change back to my married name for an E121 than to get a new passport in my maiden name and it'll be free, as well. I'll have to ask the campsite to alter their records, but otherwise it should be quite simple. (It won't be, though - it was horrendous when I moved to France, though I think it's easier for expats who arrive there now.)
I'll print copies of my marriage and divorce certificates and keep them in the van, in case the traffic police ask why the vehicle documents are in a different name.


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## Guest

Latest: I parked outside town (crowds, summer) and trudged to the Ayuntamiento, where a nice man told me that I don't need to be registered with the Padrón in order to get a NIE and that I won't need photos, either, just my passport and the NIE form. He said that they won't register me anyway until I know where I'll be living permanently and that campsites pay separately, so there'd be no need for the campers to be registered (as someone has said in this thread.)


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## Suenneil

Feyness said:


> Latest: I parked outside town (crowds, summer) and trudged to the Ayuntamiento, where a nice man told me that I don't need to be registered with the Padrón in order to get a NIE and that I won't need photos, either, just my passport and the NIE form. He said that they won't register me anyway until I know where I'll be living permanently and that campsites pay separately, so there'd be no need for the campers to be registered (as someone has said in this thread.)


Hi Feyness

Good to hear that you got it sorted - and so easily. One thing, did you ask if you needed the Padron to register at the Health Centre / Doctors ? I know that in my area you cannot register you or any member of the family unless you have it .... it makes sense really because the local authorities receive a monetary amount for every person registered on the Padron (to cover local services etc) from the Government - because a lot of people werent bothering to register they came up with ideas to push them into doing so ..... which I personally think is a good idea! and one of them was to prevent registration at the Health Centre. we all want the services so should take the bloomin time to register our names! ..... so just in case I would check that you can still register at the Docs without it.

Sue


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## Plym

Before I moved to Spain, I was a bit worried hoping I'd be able to get the residencia. In the end, the worry was unjustified... it was so easy. Just print off the form and fill it in before you go, bring your passport and take a copy of your passport down to the policia and they didnt ask me any questions at all. A quick pop nextdoor to the bank to pay the E10 charge and a few mins later popping back to the policia my residencia was confirmed! Sweet. I've read stories since that the Spanish are a bit more lenient in their approach to handing out residencias and I certainly found that the case.

But still, be prepared!


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## chris(madrid)

Getting the A4 certificate is easy for EU members!. Oh and some banks etc WILL ask for it. 

Tried to cash my expenses cheque today at the "issuing branch" and they wanted passport and NIE cert. The fact I have a NEW Spanish drivers licence and work for the town hall 150m from the branch) held no water (does with the GC and police). Oh well another good reason not to use "La Caixa".

God I miss my little plastic card.


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## Guest

Plym said:


> Before I moved to Spain, I was a bit worried hoping I'd be able to get the residencia. In the end, the worry was unjustified... it was so easy. Just print off the form and fill it in before you go, bring your passport and take a copy of your passport down to the policia and they didnt ask me any questions at all. A quick pop nextdoor to the bank to pay the E10 charge and a few mins later popping back to the policia my residencia was confirmed! Sweet. I've read stories since that the Spanish are a bit more lenient in their approach to handing out residencias and I certainly found that the case.
> 
> But still, be prepared!


Congratulation! But, since others wait 6 month until they finally get the residence card, your post does confirm the total inconsistency of the Spanish administration system!
Eva33


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## CLIVE

Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 30 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


I went for mine last week in Motril...... took 20 mins. You (I) didn't need a Padron. The cost was 10€. All you needed was form E16, completed, plus a copy of it, and your passport and a copy of the main page of it (not ALL the pages). The main inconvenience was not being able to pay at the police station..... you had to go out looking for a bank (any one). How dickensian...!!!


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## jessymoo

*Staying for 6 Months*

We are coming over to the Murcia region for 6 months in a couple of weeks. Do we have to register anywhere as we are staying for so long. We will be bringing the caravan to stay on a campsite. Your help would be much apreciated. :ranger:


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## Guest

jessymoo said:


> We are coming over to the Murcia region for 6 months in a couple of weeks. Do we have to register anywhere as we are staying for so long. We will be bringing the caravan to stay on a campsite. Your help would be much apreciated. :ranger:


If you stay for 6 months and have a permanent residence in the UK, I personally think you do not need to do anything. Just make sure your health insurance will cover you while you are in Spain


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## xabiaxica

I know some people went to Denia for theirs last Friday (apparently they only do this on Friday there)

they had been told that if they arrived at 8.30 there would be no problem, because the office doesn't open til 9am.

they reckon there were about 100+ already there ahead of them in the queue

at 10 past 10 a guy came out and said 'no mas' - shutting the door & leaving the rest of the queue to go back another day!

talking to others in the queue the people I know discovered that some were on their third attemp!


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## Caz.I

xabiachica said:


> I know some people went to Denia for theirs last Friday (apparently they only do this on Friday there)
> 
> they had been told that if they arrived at 8.30 there would be no problem, because the office doesn't open til 9am.
> 
> they reckon there were about 100+ already there ahead of them in the queue
> 
> at 10 past 10 a guy came out and said 'no mas' - shutting the door & leaving the rest of the queue to go back another day!
> 
> talking to others in the queue the people I know discovered that some were on their third attemp!


This used to be the case in Fuengirola in the days when they had the actual Residents card though, and I think people were queuing up half the night and they started giving out tickets about 7.30am. Now though, you can ring up for an appointment, and then go and get your residencia on the day of your appointment. But, that is, of course, presuming you know the phone number, which, like most things, you discover through word of mouth.
Every area, town hall, seems to be different though in how they arrange it, so it its pot luck!


----------



## bakeja

I've helping a couple tomorrow morning at Estepona police station. I rang and they said they gave out tickets at 8.30 and there were no queues at the moment. I've said 8am to the couple and am just hoping my intel is correct because otherwise I'm going to look like a prize muppet if there's an epic-sized queue of Moroccans and Ecuadoreans ahead of us.

One general question - not relating to tomorrow's couple who have NIEs - but if you are new to Spain and are getting a NIE, is it still possible to get just a NIE. I know they insist on the joint NIE/Residencia if you are going to be resident but what if you need a NIE to buy a holiday home - a NIE/Residencia doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure you can just get a NIE on its own but wondered if anyone had any recent experience in this area.


----------



## CLIVE

bakeja said:


> I've helping a couple tomorrow morning at Estepona police station. I rang and they said they gave out tickets at 8.30 and there were no queues at the moment. I've said 8am to the couple and am just hoping my intel is correct because otherwise I'm going to look like a prize muppet if there's an epic-sized queue of Moroccans and Ecuadoreans ahead of us.
> 
> One general question - not relating to tomorrow's couple who have NIEs - but if you are new to Spain and are getting a NIE, is it still possible to get just a NIE. I know they insist on the joint NIE/Residencia if you are going to be resident but what if you need a NIE to buy a holiday home - a NIE/Residencia doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure you can just get a NIE on its own but wondered if anyone had any recent experience in this area.


Hi.....
Yes... I got my NIE on it's own at Motril in August. Only had to take my passport (and a copy), the application form (and a copy). Did not have to show evidence of where I lived. Nothing about 'residencia' was suggested or asked about.
Just walked into the police station and sat in the waiting area for NIE applicants (there were 3 or 4 people waiting). I was seen after about 10 mins, passed the docs over, then was given a 2 part form to take to the bank to pay the fee (about 10€ ). ( I think it is ridiculous that you can't pay at the police station...!!).
The bank stamped both forms, kept one, and I took the other back to the pol. stn, where they handed me my NIE cert in exchange for the stamped bank form. 
Job done..!! So much simpler and hassle free, than I had been led to believe by all the web sites that I had been scouring over the previous weeks...... So YES, you can get your NIE form on it's own.


----------



## CLIVE

Yes.... basically you are on a 6 month 'vacacion'. No need for an NIE number, nor a 'residencia' cert either. Really no need to register anywhere, as far as I have been led to believe. Just have a good holiday.
After 6 months, one is supposed to 'spanish plate' your vehicle.... but I know of several who have extended this x 3; so long as you're aren't stopped, you shouldn't have a problem. To spanish plate your car can be quite a complex affair...!!!


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## phylliso

What is the padron? Phyllis


----------



## Pesky Wesky

phylliso said:


> What is the padron? Phyllis


When you live in Spain you have to register with the local authorities. That is called *empadronarse. *You have to go to your local town hall. What you get is a *certificado de empadronamiento *. You may need this to register children at school, get a doctor at the social security, and other things that are probably already mentioned on this thread.
Hope this gives you an idea of what it's about.  Oh, by the way, everybody is obliged to sign up at their town hall, not just immigrants. The local authorities are given grants based on the number of people registered
I see this is your first post so you are new to the forum. Are you new to Spain too?


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> When you live in Spain you have to register with the local authorities. That is called *empadronarse. *You have to go to your local town hall. What you get is a *certificado de empadronamiento *. You may need this to register children at school, get a doctor at the social security, and other things that are probably already mentioned on this thread.
> Hope this gives you an idea of what it's about.  Oh, by the way, everybody is obliged to sign up at their town hall, not just immigrants. The local authorities are given grants based on the number of people registered
> I see this is your first post so you are new to the forum. Are you new to Spain too?



Just as a footnote to what "pesky wesky" has said. when you go to register, you need to have everyones

NIE certificates, 
passports,
proof of your spanish address ie. rental agreement, utility bill....
the IBI (proof that you're in a registered house!!!)

How do I know all this???? cos I've just had to re-register my padron, because I've moved house!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Just as a footnote to what "pesky wesky" has said. when you go to register, you need to have everyones
> 
> NIE certificates,
> passports,
> proof of your spanish address ie. rental agreement, utility bill....
> the IBI (proof that you're in a registered house!!!)
> 
> How do I know all this???? cos I've just had to re-register my padron, because I've moved house!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


That's the bit I couldn't remember, so I just didn't mention it!!
In fact I've never done that, but perhaps because at first I didn't register and then I was on the census?? could be??
So when I need a certificate, for a sports activity for example, I just go in and ask for it, they look me up and that's it. I don't have to take in anything else except for my soon-to-run-out residency card.


----------



## Zena143

bakeja said:


> I've helping a couple tomorrow morning at Estepona police station. I rang and they said they gave out tickets at 8.30 and there were no queues at the moment. I've said 8am to the couple and am just hoping my intel is correct because otherwise I'm going to look like a prize muppet if there's an epic-sized queue of Moroccans and Ecuadoreans ahead of us.
> 
> One general question - not relating to tomorrow's couple who have NIEs - but if you are new to Spain and are getting a NIE, is it still possible to get just a NIE. I know they insist on the joint NIE/Residencia if you are going to be resident but what if you need a NIE to buy a holiday home - a NIE/Residencia doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure you can just get a NIE on its own but wondered if anyone had any recent experience in this area.


I obtained a NIE form from Fuengirola in September, and then bought property in November, did not need anything else according to Lawyer other than a bank account which I also obtained when I had the NIE number. When I went for the form - arrived at 7.30 expecting crowds - ony one in front and then waited till 9 by then there were about 20, but found out most had appointments, so more or less in and out within the hour with the bank forms, and back in midday with receipts and four days later collected number! Zena143


----------



## jojo

Zena143 said:


> I obtained a NIE form from Fuengirola in September, and then bought property in November, did not need anything else according to Lawyer other than a bank account which I also obtained when I had the NIE number. When I went for the form - arrived at 7.30 expecting crowds - ony one in front and then waited till 9 by then there were about 20, but found out most had appointments, so more or less in and out within the hour with the bank forms, and back in midday with receipts and four days later collected number! Zena143


I guess they do it in different ways in different places, we went to Malaga police station, waited for about 20 mins in the queue,. When we got to the desk, we showed our passports and birth certificates (cos they needed our parents names to put on the NIE certificate), answered the questions while the man filled out the form and that was it. We left clutching our certificates!!The whole thing took about 2 hours max!

Sadly I have to go thru the whole thing again cos I've hunted high and low and it seems I've lost my certificate!

Jo xxx


----------



## Zena143

jojo said:


> I guess they do it in different ways in different places, we went to Malaga police station, waited for about 20 mins in the queue,. When we got to the desk, we showed our passports and birth certificates (cos they needed our parents names to put on the NIE certificate), answered the questions while the man filled out the form and that was it. We left clutching our certificates!!The whole thing took about 2 hours max!
> 
> Sadly I have to go thru the whole thing again cos I've hunted high and low and it seems I've lost my certificate!
> 
> Jo xxx


That was nice and quick in Malaga, and presumably, they will do the same when you go back. I actually went to a copy shop in Fengi and had a passport size laminated copy made which I tucked into the passport to carry everywhere and left the original copy tucked away. Use that to quote number, etc although it is a copy. This is my first ever go at a forum so hope I am doing things right:confused2:


----------



## jojo

Zena143 said:


> That was nice and quick in Malaga, and presumably, they will do the same when you go back. I actually went to a copy shop in Fengi and had a passport size laminated copy made which I tucked into the passport to carry everywhere and left the original copy tucked away. Use that to quote number, etc although it is a copy. This is my first ever go at a forum so hope I am doing things right:confused2:



You're doing great! If you wanna start a new topic or conversation then go to "new post" otherwise we're gonna fill this one up pretty quick lol!!! And obviously if you wanna answer anyone elses threads then feel free!! Nice to meet you tho 

I've gotta copy very much the same as yours. I have a mini copy of my passport one side and a mini copy of my NIE number on the other and all laminated and credit card sized. But there are one or two places that insist on seeing the original certificate - the school my daughter has just started is one such place altho they're happy seeing the copy they've asked for the original - I've just gotta get down to Málaga - and I'm not good at parking down there - or finding my way!!!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Dave Parker

Peter & Fiona said:


> So.... How long do you have to be there before you register?
> We are planning to come over in June until the end of October to sing. Do we need to regester?
> 
> We plan on coming back to the UK for November and December, then going back to Spain to live permenantly then.


You can start the process as soon as you like but I believe the first step is the empadronamiento which sounds more difficult than it is, basically it's a piece of paper saying where you live, you'll need to go to your local town hall to find excactly which documents you need to get but I think your rental contract and passport may cover it.


----------



## Stravinsky

Dave Parker said:


> You can start the process as soon as you like but I believe the first step is the empadronamiento which sounds more difficult than it is, basically it's a piece of paper saying where you live, you'll need to go to your local town hall to find excactly which documents you need to get but I think your rental contract and passport may cover it.


Hi Dave. Soon is the operative word. You are supposed to get registered on the foreigners register within 30 days of arriving with intent to reside here. Nowadays you will get the certificate (A4) which will also include your NIE number, whereas before they were separate documents

The Padron _should_ be relatively easy. The local town halls will welcome you with open arms, for every person registered means more money for them from government.


----------



## chris(madrid)

Stravinsky said:


> Hi Dave. Soon is the operative word. You are supposed to get registered on the foreigners register within 30 days of arriving with intent to reside here. Nowadays you will get the certificate (A4) which will also include your NIE number, whereas before they were separate documents
> 
> The Padron _should_ be relatively easy. The local town halls will welcome you with open arms, for every person registered means more money for them from government.


I'd also suggest folk start looking at this CERES > Citizens > Obtain the certificate > USER CERTIFICATE. As of 1/1/2010 there will be an increasing amount of stuff you can actually do on-line - providing you have a digital certificate. ONE will be applying for the "Certificado de enpadronamiento". I'm told that many banks may start to include DNIe readers in their ATMs too as part of national account validation. With a driving licence and this - the A4 can stay safely at home.

Certainly if you're living in a largish town it'll cut down queue time considerably. It's a LEGAL requirement that the town hall provides electronic access. You can buy a simple "KIT" which includes software, Digital card and special card reader for about 25€uros from FNMT. Personally it's the only one I'd bother with as they'll provide FULL assistance if you have issues.

I'm installing the set up in the Town hall I work at. The only PITA is having to go to specific offices to get your application validated - but as the Spanish have to as well - it's not a grumble point. Mine gets validated tomorrow  - Actually it's more  as I'd hoped to avoid the need for one. 

Once validated the rest is a cinch - I've done loads at work. It is VERY safe - Spain is actually ahead of many countries on this. 

Great thing about the card is you can store other stuff like VERI-SIGN certs on it - so you COULD put several types of certification on and only need to remember one PIN - it's a LONG pin. To start with mine is WORK ONLY but let's see how things evolve.


----------



## almendros

I thought that the card you are referring to was a Spanish DNI card which can be used for electronic identity once verified.

I am not aware that any such card is available for us foreigners. I do have a digital certificate which I got from CERES but that only allows me access from my PC.

Either way, as you say, having a digital certificate can be very useful. For instance, to avoid not getting Trafico fines lost in the post, you can sign up for email notification.

I recently used mine to change my doctor online.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Renewal*



Pesky Wesky said:


> That's the bit I couldn't remember, so I just didn't mention it!!
> In fact I've never done that, but perhaps because at first I didn't register and then I was on the census?? could be??
> So when I need a certificate, for a sports activity for example, I just go in and ask for it, they look me up and that's it. I don't have to take in anything else except for my soon-to-run-out residency card.


Info for any one who has a five year residency card that is going to run out.

OK, I went to renew my residency card today, which of course I can't do because they don't exist any more, which I found out thanks to this site a few months ago. I'll get a certificate.
I couldn't believe it - I had to do so little.
I didn't need an appointment or even a number. I didn't have to get up at 5 in the morning to go to Madrid to be in a queue for 3 hours. As I had a card I didn't need an _empadronamiento_ certificate. You only need that if you have changed address. I did have to wait for about an hour in the usual dingy office that these places have. I did have to do photocopies in a completely different building, but only 2!!
I had to present my passport and do a photocopy, but I think that was because my card had run out 10 days previously. I didn't have to pay a fine and there was no problem about the card being out of date.
I didn't leave with the certificate though. I have to go back 3 weeks later to pick it up. However she told me "But don't worry, if you can't come on the 4th, come on the 5th or 6th!!" She was so laid back about everything. When doing my papers before I'd always felt like I was in the wrong and was scared of not doing things correctly. Is it because this paper really doesn't hold any weight?


----------



## Caz.I

Pesky Wesky said:


> Info for any one who has a five year residency card that is going to run out.
> 
> OK, I went to renew my residency card today, which of course I can't do because they don't exist any more, which I found out thanks to this site a few months ago. I'll get a certificate.
> When doing my papers before I'd always felt like I was in the wrong and was scared of not doing things correctly. Is it because this paper really doesn't hold any weight?


Hi Pesky,
Yes I think it is more or less meaningless this piece of paper, it shows your NIE number and that you have residency but is not valid as a form of identity.

Caz.I


----------



## morlandg

*Electronic certificate v DNIe*



chris(madrid) said:


> I'd also suggest folk start looking at this CERES > Citizens > Obtain the certificate > USER CERTIFICATE. As of 1/1/2010 there will be an increasing amount of stuff you can actually do on-line - providing you have a digital certificate. ONE will be applying for the "Certificado de enpadronamiento". I'm told that many banks may start to include DNIe readers in their ATMs too as part of national account validation. With a driving licence and this - the A4 can stay safely at home.
> 
> Certainly if you're living in a largish town it'll cut down queue time considerably. It's a LEGAL requirement that the town hall provides electronic access. You can buy a simple "KIT" which includes software, Digital card and special card reader for about 25€uros from FNMT. Personally it's the only one I'd bother with as they'll provide FULL assistance if you have issues.
> 
> I'm installing the set up in the Town hall I work at. The only PITA is having to go to specific offices to get your application validated - but as the Spanish have to as well - it's not a grumble point. Mine gets validated tomorrow  - Actually it's more  as I'd hoped to avoid the need for one.
> 
> Once validated the rest is a cinch - I've done loads at work. It is VERY safe - Spain is actually ahead of many countries on this.
> 
> Great thing about the card is you can store other stuff like VERI-SIGN certs on it - so you COULD put several types of certification on and only need to remember one PIN - it's a LONG pin. To start with mine is WORK ONLY but let's see how things evolve.



Hi Chris
I'm trying to 'get my head round' your posting - and the next one by Almendro.
If I'm correct then there are 2 separate issues here. The first is the electronic certificate which resides on your PC and which is visible to outside authorities to check your ID once you have requested information/service from them. This certificate is listed in the personal tab of the security folder held in your tools tab of your browser. It is listed differently in IE and Firefox.
The second is that of a smart National Identity Card which can be used similarly to those issued by UK banks such as Barclays and Nationwide. The cardreader will generate a onetime PIN which will give you access to their online systems.
Almendro's question about whether the DNIe is offered to Spanish nationals only is, I think, explained in the spanish quote below from the Cuerpo Nacional de Policia website: http://www.dnielectronico.es
If my understanding of the spanish is correct then I need to obtain current copies of my birth certificate and empadronamiento and then go to the nearest Commisaria de Policia office to request the ID card and reader.
Is my understanding correct? If I am correct and the DNIe is available to expat residents then I think we need to present an 'idiots guide' to the process of aquiring and using this card. I will certainly need one!!
Graham
• Dónde y cómo se expide. Proceso en un solo paso:

* El DNI electrónico se expide en los centros en los que actualmente se está realizando (equipos de expedición y equipos móviles)
* El DNI electrónico se expide en un solo acto administrativo, es decir en una sola visita al centro de expedición.

• Qué hace falta llevar.
Para solicitar la primera expedición del Documento Nacional de Identidad será imprescindible la presencia física de la persona a quien se haya de expedir, el abono de la tasa legalmente establecida en cada momento y la presentación de los siguientes documentos:

* Certificación literal de nacimiento expedida por el Registro Civil correspondiente o, en su caso, Certificado de inscripción de la nacionalidad española. A estos efectos únicamente serán admitidas las certificaciones expedidas con una antelación máxima de tres meses a la fecha de presentación de la solicitud de expedición del Documento Nacional de Identidad.
* Una fotografía reciente en color del rostro del solicitante, tamaño 32 por 26 milímetros, con fondo uniforme claro liso, tomadas de frente con la cabeza totalmente descubierta y sin gafas de cristales oscuros o cualquier otra prenda que pueda impedir o dificultar la identificación de la persona.
* Certificado de empadronamiento del Ayuntamiento donde el solicitante tenga su domicilio, expedido con una antelación máxima de tres meses a la fecha de la solicitud del Documento Nacional de Identidad.


----------



## mike kelly

Does anyone know how often the "Certificado de empadronamiento" and EU residency certificate have to be renewed? Or do they have to be renewed?


----------



## mrypg9

mike kelly said:


> Does anyone know how often the "Certificado de empadronamiento" and EU residency certificate have to be renewed? Or do they have to be renewed?


I don't think they need to be renewed. Can't see an expiry date on mine.
But I'm no expert on these matters...


----------



## Caz.I

mike kelly said:


> Does anyone know how often the "Certificado de empadronamiento" and EU residency certificate have to be renewed? Or do they have to be renewed?


I had understood that the residency certificate is supposed to be for life (or rather as long as you remain resident here), even though cant quite see the paper version holding out that long... so probably till it falls apart. 

The empadronamiento, from what I understand, has a very short life. And, although you will obviously need to renew it each time you move, you will have to renew it if you are applying for some kind of public service - I have had to renew mine on countless occasions for various things - applying to do Spanish classes through the town hall (you can get a discount with it), applying for my son to get a place in school, applying for legal aid. Although you will continue to be on the town hall records, after 2 or 3 months of it being issued you may have to renew it if you need a particular service. 

When I applied for legal aid it was very annoying as i had to submit the empadronamiento certificate (not to mention a mountain of other paperwork and certificates I had never heard of), but by the time I had chased up all the other certificates and managed to get all of them together, the original emapadronamiento had run out and I was sent back to the Town Hall to get a current one! Still it was definitely worth all the hassle.

Caz.I


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*empdronamiento, certificado residencia*



Caz.I said:


> I had understood that the residency certificate is supposed to be for life (or rather as long as you remain resident here), even though cant quite see the paper version holding out that long... so probably till it falls apart.
> 
> The empadronamiento, from what I understand, has a very short life.
> Although you will continue to be on the town hall records, after 2 or 3 months of it being issued you may have to renew it if you need a particular service.
> 
> When I applied for legal aid it was very annoying as i had to submit the empadronamiento certificate (not to mention a mountain of other paperwork and certificates I had never heard of), but by the time I had chased up all the other certificates and managed to get all of them together, the original emapadronamiento had run out and I was sent back to the Town Hall to get a current one! Still it was definitely worth all the hassle.
> 
> Caz.I


Yes, when I got the empadronamiento two days ago (which I didn't need as it turned out) I was told it was valid for a month. On other occasions it's been 3 months, but anyway it runs out, but it's very useful and is needed for many different things. 
Caz. I mentions smth that's very important; once you're on the town hall register you remain there until you _*dar de baja*_ (unregister??) if you move or smth like that and you can just go in with your residency certificate and ask for a copy.
The problem is as Caz. I has said that sometimes things take so long to sort out that you have to go back to get another certificate...


----------



## chris(madrid)

One again - There is a HUGE difference to being Enpadronado (registered on the padron) and the "certificate of enpadronamiento".

Being ON THE PADRON is basically just like being on the electoral roll or local census. It's valid until you move (or die).

The certificate is a document issued by the town hall to indicate to the 3rd party that you are indeed who you say you are and, at the time of emission, live where you say. This has a limited validity - because you could move. Also depending on what it is for the period of validity IS different. 

If you leave Spain you MUST de-register - if you move within Spain - You should register in the new location and you will automatically (about a month later) be removed from the Padron at you previous address.

Easy really.


----------



## chris(madrid)

mike kelly said:


> Does anyone know how often the "Certificado de empadronamiento" and EU residency certificate have to be renewed? Or do they have to be renewed?


Padron see above - EU RESIDENCY CERT is now VALID FOR LIFE. Non-EU are not.


----------



## morlandg

*DNIe*



chris(madrid) said:


> I'd also suggest folk start looking at this CERES > Citizens > Obtain the certificate > USER CERTIFICATE. As of 1/1/2010 there will be an increasing amount of stuff you can actually do on-line - providing you have a digital certificate. ONE will be applying for the "Certificado de enpadronamiento". I'm told that many banks may start to include DNIe readers in their ATMs too as part of national account validation. With a driving licence and this - the A4 can stay safely at home.
> 
> Certainly if you're living in a largish town it'll cut down queue time considerably. It's a LEGAL requirement that the town hall provides electronic access. You can buy a simple "KIT" which includes software, Digital card and special card reader for about 25€uros from FNMT. Personally it's the only one I'd bother with as they'll provide FULL assistance if you have issues.
> 
> I'm installing the set up in the Town hall I work at. The only PITA is having to go to specific offices to get your application validated - but as the Spanish have to as well - it's not a grumble point. Mine gets validated tomorrow  - Actually it's more  as I'd hoped to avoid the need for one.
> 
> Once validated the rest is a cinch - I've done loads at work. It is VERY safe - Spain is actually ahead of many countries on this.
> 
> Great thing about the card is you can store other stuff like VERI-SIGN certs on it - so you COULD put several types of certification on and only need to remember one PIN - it's a LONG pin. To start with mine is WORK ONLY but let's see how things evolve.


Chris -are you saying that you, an expat, have received a DNIe card and reader?
My spanish is not up to understanding what is said on my previous posting but recently I asked a German employee of Unicaja Bank if I could receive one and she told me that neither she nor I were eligible as we were not Spanish. Please clarify.


----------



## timr

Hi, please could anyone help with a couple of questions re residence certificates ?
Firstly, is possible to apply for a certificate online using a digital certificate ? Secondly, I have one of the old style residence cards (tarjeta extranjero) which expired towards the end of last year. Are there any fines or penalties when applying for a new residency certificate in this situation ?

Thanks


----------



## timr

Pesky Wesky said:


> See my post page 18 post 179
> Those youtube things look v. interesting Bakeja. Will look at them later on.


Many thanks for the replies. Unfortunately not as quick and easy where I live. The local office (Xativa) of the Policia National is refusing to issue residency certificates which means trying to get down to an industrial estate in Valencia for 4am. Bit of bind since I don´t have a car. Think I´ll wait till the weather gets a bit warmer.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

timr said:


> Many thanks for the replies. Unfortunately not as quick and easy where I live. The local office (Xativa) of the Policia National is refusing to issue residency certificates which means trying to get down to an industrial estate in Valencia for 4am. Bit of bind since I don´t have a car. Think I´ll wait till the weather gets a bit warmer.


 Ah well, I can't get the certificate in the town where I live either. Not every police station can do it. You have to go to central office and mine is 30 kms away - but I do have a car


----------



## Pesky Wesky

morlandg said:


> I read on the Advoco site the list of advantages of gaining your residency certificate. And I speak to other expats. The one thing I use my card for most of all is when I use my debit card to pay for goods at the supermarket. I keep the card in my wallet. I will not be able to carry the new A4 certificate when I come to renew my residencia.
> The Advoco site does not mention this use of the card. It will be a backward step for me when I need to renew it!


My card ran out on the 2nd of January. I use it LOT as we only carry the bare minum of cash on us. Plus I've been busy at the sales!! Nobody's said anything about it being out of date, so I'm going to carry on using it until I get my new style driving license which is ok to use as ID. Some places aren't used to it yet, but they will be soon.
Don't forget you can't use the certificate as identification - it doesn't have a photo. It's only a piece of paper with a number on it, and you can't actually *use* it for anything!! Now your identification will be your passport, or possibly your driving license, presumibly only if it's a Spanish license.
I totally agree it's a backward step.


----------



## qwertyjjj

SpainExpat said:


> If it's only 3 months then you probably shouldn't bother with too much bureaucracy. It'll take you up until you leave to get it all sorted out completely legitimately. As Stravinsky mentioned, it's pretty much a long holiday, not residency - so no reason to get a residency card, right?
> 
> Are you planning to buy a car? You should consider contacting some of the larger rental agencies to see if they do long term rentals. Otherwise, take yourself directly to a sales lot and they will help you sort it out better than anyone else (they're extremely motivated, right?).


So, is it just living there that requires you to get or only if you are there over 90 days?


----------



## Billham

Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 30 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.




Hi,

Correct but the fee has just risen to 10.10 euros! You do not have to have the padron with you but your original passport, copy, and, of course the form. On the form you will have to have an address in Spain and they will need the christian names of your Mother andf Father on the form too.

The green European form is required now for almost any transaction ie: house purchase, registering at the Social Security and tax office etc.


----------



## Billham

*EU certificate (Green)*



Peter & Fiona said:


> So.... How long do you have to be there before you register?
> We are planning to come over in June until the end of October to sing. Do we need to regester?
> 
> We plan on coming back to the UK for November and December, then going back to Spain to live permenantly then.



Hi,

If you are working at all here you must regiter as "Autonimo" (self employed) unless you have a contract. Both ways you would have to get the certificate as you cannot be employed without one nor get self employed status. You have to be registered within the social security system and either your employer pays your social security or if you are self employed you do. The fines are quite high if you are caught working with no registration.

Regars,

Bill.


----------



## qwertyjjj

Billham said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you are working at all here you must regiter as "Autonimo" (self employed) unless you have a contract. Both ways you would have to get the certificate as you cannot be employed without one nor get self employed status. You have to be registered within the social security system and either your employer pays your social security or if you are self employed you do. The fines are quite high if you are caught working with no registration.
> 
> Regars,
> 
> Bill.


If tax residency only applies after 183 days why do people have to register as resident after 3 months?
If I am only going to be living in Spain for 182 days per year then do I have to bother with the residency card at all?


----------



## jojo

qwertyjjj said:


> If tax residency only applies after 183 days why do people have to register as resident after 3 months?
> If I am only going to be living in Spain for 182 days per year then do I have to bother with the residency card at all?



My husband works in the UK and spends a lot less than 183 days here. He isnt a resident, he's essentially a tourist/holiday maker/visitor I guess?? He does have an NIE number tho. I'm here all the time, so I have a residencia

What you should do, is see or speak to a gestor and find out the answers conclusively to this question and let us know on here - especially me!??

Jo xxx


----------



## bakeja

qwertyjjj said:


> If tax residency only applies after 183 days why do people have to register as resident after 3 months?
> If I am only going to be living in Spain for 182 days per year then do I have to bother with the residency card at all?


The key thing to remember is that tax residency and the residency certificate are two separate things with their own rules and requirements. If you live here you should get a residency certificate: it's the law and you will probably need it from time to time unless you are very inactive. 
This has no bearing on your tax status which is determined by its own set of rules, principally the 183 day rule but with some additional complexities in the minority of cases which are not clearcut. If you intend to reside in Spain full time or live here part of the time but are deemed resident under the rules, you should sign up with the tax office and then submit a tax return at the appropriate time. After this first return, which is mandatory, you may not have to submit returns in future years if your income falls below certain levels. 
It is wise to take some professional advice in your year of transition from one tax authority to the other. If you are not registered for Spanish tax but live here and really should be then this is normally "solucionable" as the Spanish say more painlessly than you think.


----------



## JodiSte

Just to clarify a few things.

Residencia is only applicable if you are a pensioner or if you do not work as employed or self-employed in Spain and if you are in Spain for less then 183 days per year. 
The 183 days per year rule applies. This is the same in all of Europe even in the UK. If you are in Spain for more than 183 days per year you are automatically resident in Spain. You then need to go and apply for a residencia certificate (Certificado de registro de ciudadano de la union). The reason for this is registration and you will need to prove that you can provide for yourself, so that you have enough income without the state having to help you out. If you are self-employed or employed in Spain it is assumed that you can do so. If you are not you will need to prove that you have a pension or another form of income. Once you are resident in Spain (more than 183 days per year) you will become taxable in Spain and you will need to declare your income. This means any income you have in any European country. If you have already paid your taxes in another country and you can proof that you won't need to pay any further tax in Spain (double taxation agreement of the European Union). I would always advice the help of a professional assessor or accountant.
The residencia certificate is usually without end date and you will need this to apply for "volante de residencia / empadronamiento individual" at your town hall.

I lived in Spain for over 9 years and since lived in the UK and Brussels. I am planning of moving back to Spain in about 2 years time. With all its little niggles, if you make an effort and learn a bit of Spanish, Spain is the best place in Europe to live, I have no doubt there. I can't wait to move back.
Anyone living near Denia, Javea, Moraira or Calpe and is not sure where to go for advice, let me know, I will be happy to help.


----------



## xabiaxica

JodiSte said:


> Just to clarify a few things.
> 
> Residencia is only applicable if you are a pensioner or if you do not work as employed or self-employed in Spain and if you are in Spain for less then 183 days per year.
> The 183 days per year rule applies. This is the same in all of Europe even in the UK. If you are in Spain for more than 183 days per year you are automatically resident in Spain. You then need to go and apply for a residencia certificate (Certificado de registro de ciudadano de la union). The reason for this is registration and you will need to prove that you can provide for yourself, so that you have enough income without the state having to help you out. If you are self-employed or employed in Spain it is assumed that you can do so. If you are not you will need to prove that you have a pension or another form of income. Once you are resident in Spain (more than 183 days per year) you will become taxable in Spain and you will need to declare your income. This means any income you have in any European country. If you have already paid your taxes in another country and you can proof that you won't need to pay any further tax in Spain (double taxation agreement of the European Union). I would always advice the help of a professional assessor or accountant.
> The residencia certificate is usually without end date and you will need this to apply for "volante de residencia / empadronamiento individual" at your town hall.
> 
> I lived in Spain for over 9 years and since lived in the UK and Brussels. I am planning of moving back to Spain in about 2 years time. With all its little niggles, if you make an effort and learn a bit of Spanish, Spain is the best place in Europe to live, I have no doubt there. I can't wait to move back.
> Anyone living near Denia, Javea, Moraira or Calpe and is not sure where to go for advice, let me know, I will be happy to help.


the 'residencia' you speak of no longer exists - since March 2007


after 90 consecutive days here you are obliged to sign on to the 'list of foreign residents' which is totally different


see the very first post on this thread


----------



## JodiSte

*As things change*



xabiachica said:


> the 'residencia' you speak of no longer exists - since March 2007
> 
> 
> after 90 consecutive days here you are obliged to sign on to the 'list of foreign residents' which is totally different
> 
> 
> see the very first post on this thread


Just spoken to my asesor. This seems to be different from Region to Region.
There is a European legislation which clearly defines how this is suppose to work.
Please see my post. But it seems that in some areas things are handled differently.
The list you are mentioning does not exist in Valencia region, but the document I mentioned does still exist and is required if you want to live there.


----------



## Stravinsky

JodiSte said:


> The list you are mentioning does not exist in Valencia region, but the document I mentioned does still exist and is required if you want to live there.


Oh yes it does.
When you go to the police station and get your certificate you are in effect signing on the list of foreigners.


----------



## Stravinsky

JodiSte said:


> Just to clarify a few things.
> 
> Residencia is only applicable if you are a pensioner or if you do not work as employed or self-employed in Spain and if you are in Spain for less then 183 days per year.
> The 183 days per year rule applies. This is the same in all of Europe even in the UK. If you are in Spain for more than 183 days per year you are automatically resident in Spain. You then need to go and apply for a residencia certificate (Certificado de registro de ciudadano de la union). The reason for this is registration and you will need to prove that you can provide for yourself, so that you have enough income without the state having to help you out. If you are self-employed or employed in Spain it is assumed that you c.


No, I'm sorry this is completely out of date and incorrect.
The 183 day rule is tax residency, you are confusing the two I think
Theres no such thing as a residency certificate now, its a certificate that registers you on the register of foreigners and applies to EVERYONE who os a foreigner and resides here full time, and should be app;lied for within 60 days
You dont need to prove you can provide for yourself here. Under EU law as an EU citizen you are able to live and work wherever you want in the EU


----------



## JodiSte

This is an excerpt of the European Legislation as it stands today. You can find the full text here:

ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/citizenship/movement/fsj_citizenship_movement_en.htm

Free movement and right of residence

The new legal and political environment entailed by EU citizenship has allowed for a fresh look to be taken at arrangements for European citizens to exercise their rights, and fulfil their obligations in this regards through the creation of a single set of rules governing freedom of movement.

European citizens can, mutatis mutandis, move between Member States on similar terms as nationals of a Member State moving around or changing their place of residence inside their own country.

* European citizens have the right to enter, reside and remain in the territory of any other Member State for a period of up to three months simply by presenting a valid passport or national identity card: no other formality is required. If they intend to remain for a period exceeding three months, *a residence permit must be obtained. The conditions for granting a residence permit depend on the status of the citizen (employed or self-employed person, student, retired or inactive person).*
* Any EU citizen can take up an economic activity in another Member State either as an employed or self-employed person. In this case, he/she will be issued a residence permit by simply presenting an identity document (passport or ID) and proof of employment or self-employment.
* If a citizen wants to reside in another Member State without exercising any activity or to study, he/she can do so provided he/she can prove (and in the case of students, declare) that he/she has sufficient financial resources not to become a burden for the host Member State's social assistance system and that he/she is covered by a sickness insurance policy. He/she must also prove that he/she has sufficient financial resources and sickness insurance for each member of his/her family who is entitled to reside with him/her.
* Family members, irrespective of their nationality, have the right to accompany and establish themselves with a european citizen who is residing in the territory of another Member State. Family members who can enjoy rights under Community law include the spouse, minor (under 21) or dependent children, and dependent ascendants, though in the case of students only the spouse and dependent children enjoy this right. If the family members are not EU citizens, they may be required to hold an entry visa by the Member State where they intend accompany the EU citizen. They shall be granted this visa free of charge and with all facilities by that Member State.

More information about your precise rights when you move to another country can be obtained at: Dialogue with citizens and business site.

-----------------------------------------------------------
I know that things are not handle exactly by the book, especially in rural areas of Spain, but when it comes to the point, EU law applies.

I had the same issue when I moved to Belgium (Brussels being the capital and seat of the European Union).

You are correct that the 183 day rule applies to tax, but be aware that living in a country for over 183 days automatically makes you taxable in that country, if you have income or not.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

God this is so confusing, and isn't helping anyone!! Please note

- There is NOT a residency card (Tarjeta de residencia) with your photo and fingerprint.

- There IS a residency certificate (certificado de residencia) with no photo or fingerprint. It is needed by law *everywhere* in Spain.

- There is a register in the town hall of *all* cities and towns in Spain that everyone has to sign up on, including the Spanish which is called the *empadronamiento.*

These are the basic facts, work from here onwards


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> God this is so confusing, and isn't helping anyone!! Please note
> 
> - There is NOT a residency card (Tarjeta de residencia) with your photo and fingerprint.
> 
> - There IS a residency certificate (certificado de residencia) with no photo or fingerprint. It is needed by law *everywhere* in Spain.
> 
> - There is a register in the town hall of *all* cities and towns in Spain that everyone has to sign up on, including the Spanish which is called the *empadronamiento.*
> 
> These are the basic facts, work from here onwards


It is a mess isnt it. My understanding is that the residencia has been deemed unnecessary by Brussels and therefore it is no longer required. The various levels of bureaucracy in Spain havent caught up with this yet? The NIE number and a valid passport contain all the information required to live in Spain and the padron is to let the town that you live in know that you are here and that is compulsory ?????????

As I say, this is simply my interpretation of it

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo

What I am going to do later on today is find out the "facts" and a definitive answer to this subject and then tidy up the thread so that there is no more confusion!!! Stravinski, if you want to add or help with any info let me know, afterall, you're the brains out of the two of us xx

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

More easy-to-digest info on getting your *residency certificate.*

The facts!!


How to register your Spanish residency | eHow.com


and...


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> What I am going to do later on today is find out the "facts" and a definitive answer to this subject and then tidy up the thread so that there is no more confusion!!! Stravinski, if you want to add or help with any info let me know, afterall, you're the brains out of the two of us xx
> 
> Jo xxx


assuming the British Embassy is up-to-date

residence requirements


> Residence requirements
> 
> From 28 March 2007, Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations. However, you will no longer be issued with a residence card. Instead you will be issued a Residence Certificate stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjeros) and date of registration.
> 
> If you are an EU citizen with a valid residency card, you do not need to do anything until your card expires. On expiry you must register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or designated police stations.


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> assuming the British Embassy is up-to-date
> 
> residence requirements



I think it was the card that Brussels objected against. Surely this basically what the NIE number is anyway??? When you get your NIE number its written on a certificate with all that info on it???


Jo xx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I think it was the card that Brussels objected against. Surely this basically what the NIE number is anyway??? When you get your NIE number its written on a certificate with all that info on it???
> 
> 
> Jo xx


for you, yes probably/possibly, since I imagine that you signed on the foreigners register when you got your NIE

but I got my NIE in 2004 so the rules were different & I didn't have to get 'residency' to live here

also, you can have a NIE number without being on the foreigner's register


----------



## Stravinsky

JodiSte said:


> This is an excerpt of the European Legislation as it stands today. You can find the full text here:
> 
> ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/citizenship/movement/fsj_citizenship_movement_en.htm
> 
> Free movement and right of residence
> 
> The new legal and political environment entailed by EU citizenship has allowed for a fresh look to be taken at arrangements for European citizens to exercise their rights, and fulfil their obligations in this regards through the creation of a single set of rules governing freedom of movement.
> 
> European citizens can, mutatis mutandis, move between Member States on similar terms as nationals of a Member State moving around or changing their place of residence inside their own country.
> 
> * European citizens have the right to enter, reside and remain in the territory of any other Member State for a period of up to three months simply by presenting a valid passport or national identity card: no other formality is required. If they intend to remain for a period exceeding three months, *a residence permit must be obtained. The conditions for granting a residence permit depend on the status of the citizen (employed or self-employed person, student, retired or inactive person).*
> * Any EU citizen can take up an economic activity in another Member State either as an employed or self-employed person. In this case, he/she will be issued a residence permit by simply presenting an identity document (passport or ID) and proof of employment or self-employment.
> * If a citizen wants to reside in another Member State without exercising any activity or to study, he/she can do so provided he/she can prove (and in the case of students, declare) that he/she has sufficient financial resources not to become a burden for the host Member State's social assistance system and that he/she is covered by a sickness insurance policy. He/she must also prove that he/she has sufficient financial resources and sickness insurance for each member of his/her family who is entitled to reside with him/her.
> * Family members, irrespective of their nationality, have the right to accompany and establish themselves with a european citizen who is residing in the territory of another Member State. Family members who can enjoy rights under Community law include the spouse, minor (under 21) or dependent children, and dependent ascendants, though in the case of students only the spouse and dependent children enjoy this right. If the family members are not EU citizens, they may be required to hold an entry visa by the Member State where they intend accompany the EU citizen. They shall be granted this visa free of charge and with all facilities by that Member State.
> 
> More information about your precise rights when you move to another country can be obtained at: Dialogue with citizens and business site.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> I know that things are not handle exactly by the book, especially in rural areas of Spain, but when it comes to the point, EU law applies.
> 
> I had the same issue when I moved to Belgium (Brussels being the capital and seat of the European Union).
> 
> You are correct that the 183 day rule applies to tax, but be aware that living in a country for over 183 days automatically makes you taxable in that country, if you have income or not.


I repeat. There is no requirement in Spain to have a residence permit, because such a thing does not exist anymore in Spain. You sign on the list of foreigners. The document you get does not state you are a resident. The old resident cards are being replaced by this form when they expire. It was actually the actions of the EU that casued this, because some wonderful Ex Pats association in Spain took it to the EU and got them to deem that Spain were breaking EU rules by demanding people had to have residence permits. 

Also, as I said there is no requirement to prove your ability to support yourself in Spain.

I'm not making that up. Try and get a resident card or certificate in Spain. You can't. It doesnt exist!
It's mis information like this that causes confusion all the time


----------



## JodiSte

Stravinsky said:


> I repeat. There is no requirement in Spain to have a residence permit, because such a thing does not exist anymore in Spain. You sign on the list of foreigners. The document you get does not state you are a resident. The old resident cards are being replaced by this form when they expire. It was actually the actions of the EU that casued this, because some wonderful Ex Pats association in Spain took it to the EU and got them to deem that Spain were breaking EU rules by demanding people had to have residence permits.
> 
> Also, as I said there is no requirement to prove your ability to support yourself in Spain.
> 
> I'm not making that up. Try and get a resident card or certificate in Spain. You can't. It doesnt exist!
> It's mis information like this that causes confusion all the time


------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I have now spoken to the Spanish representation here in Brussels and I might be able to clarify a few things:

N.I.E. Número de Identificación de Extranjero is exactly what it says. An Identification number for foreigners. It is also a tax number for foreigners and is required for any type of purchase or other tax situation.

What you call a list of foreigners is nothing else than the residencia registration and you do or should receive a certificate.
To this is vital as this information is passed on to Madrid and the smaller towns which life of tourism rely on payments from Madrid and as more people registre as more money comes their way. (that's the theory, anyway)

If you live in Spain for more then 183 days a year you are obliged to fill in a tax return in Spain, Income or not.

It is not necessary to prove if you can support yourself, but they can ask you to prove any type of income you have and can/will communicate with your previous country of residence to check you out. You also have to inform them of any convictions or court cases against you.

Just to make things clear. This is exactly the same in the UK. If you want to live in the UK as a European foreigner you will need to register with the council and foreign office and declare your residency. This is since the beginning of this year. In the UK you will receive a Foreigners Identity card. Within the next 2 years this will/should be the same in all European countries. It has been like this in Germany, Italy, Austria and France for a long time.

In Spain you can ask for a Spanish Foreigners Identity card and they will have to give you one. I am aware that in some areas they probably never heard of it. In this case speak to the foreigners office in Madrid or Barcelona and they will help you (as I have been told).
In Spain you are obliged to carry an Identification with you at all times. If you don't want to carry your huge passport with you it might be a good idea to get one of those cards. I used to have a small copy of my passport in a plastic cover with me at all times and never had a problem with it, but no guarantees here.

The excerpt from the European Union I've posted before is up-to-date. This was confirmed to me. Each country tries to implement the European ruling in their own way and yes they very often get it wrong. That's why people go to court, win the case and the country has to adjust. Spain is not the fastest here and during the 9 years I lived there the rules changed almost every year and the abogados or asesores don't know themselves anymore what is going on.

However, you are all European citizens and you have the right to live in any country in the European Union as they can't kick you out as long as you play by the rules. I have found that most Spanish authorities take these issues lightly and if you got it wrong they just let you know without a fine. However, I would always advice the help and advice of an good abogado or trustworthy asesor.

If anyone needs information from the European Union Commission here in Brussels let me know and I will see how I can help.
Cheers

PS: Within the next 2 years there will be a mandatory online registration for residency. You will need to declare your country of residency and you can only be resident in one country at the time. The same will be for free-lance workers and employees. Prepare yourself.


----------



## jojo

So no residencia then! Just the NIE number??

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> So no residencia then! Just the NIE number??
> 
> Jo xxx


not quite

you have to sign on the foreigners list as a resident if you are here for more than 90 days

what used to be called 'residencia' no longer exists


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> not quite
> 
> you have to sign on the foreigners list as a resident if you are here for more than 90 days
> 
> what used to be called 'residencia' no longer exists



But isnt that what you do when you get your NIE number??? I wish I could find my NIE certificate (I've searched high and low and its important!) cos that has so much info on it and I'm sure that would be the copy of what used to be the residencia. 

Jo xxxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> But isnt that what you do when you get your NIE number??? I wish I could find my NIE certificate (I've searched high and low and its important!) cos that has so much info on it and I'm sure that would be the copy of what used to be the residencia.
> 
> Jo xxxx


I really don't know - when we got our NIEs it was different

I do know the NIE is on the bit of paper they give you when you sign - but you can have a NIE without signing onto the register

what did you have to take when you signed your dd up for state school?

I believe you now have to show proof that your are on the residents list? Again, that was different when our kids started.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

JodiSte said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> In Spain you can ask for a Spanish Foreigners Identity card and they will have to give you one. I am aware that in some areas they probably never heard of it. In this case speak to the foreigners office in Madrid or Barcelona and they will help you (as I have been told).
> In Spain you are obliged to carry an Identification with you at all times. If you don't want to carry your huge passport with you it might be a good idea to get one of those cards. I used to have a small copy of my passport in a plastic cover with me at all times and never had a problem with it, but no guarantees here.


 
I live in the Comunidad de Madrid and I don't know anyone who has got this. I've googled it and can't find anything either, which is not to say it doesn't exist, but it seems that it's not in use. I did find something about a foreigners ID card in Belgium though... And lots of peope lamenting the demise of the residency card.
Let's try and find out if it's in use anywhere in Spain. Perhaps our man in the DWP??


----------



## SteveHall

Oh dear this is getting into a mess: 

1) N.I.E. - A fiscal number for foreigners. A Spanish citizen has a N.I.F. ( "e" for foreigner, "F" for fiscal) 

2) Residencia - Has not been abolished. What HAS been abolished is the neat little cards with a photo that were so useful. One STILL needs to register. One now gets an A4 piece of paper that is no use nor ornament it seems but ........ It is NOT the same as getting a N.I.E. (To "prove" the point - a N.I.E. in Torrevieja comes from Torrevieja but for your residencia one needs to go to Alicante at some obscenely early time in the morning) Completely separate. 

3) Padrón - is the census. 

4) Just to help nobody in SOME towns being on the padrón allows you to vote (if you are eligible!). In other towns you ALSO have to apply to be on the electoral roll. USUALLY this is done at the same time as registering on the padrón and by the same people. The department of statistics within the local town hall.

Bottom line - 

NIE - you cannot "survive" without a NIE number. You should not be able to buy a house, car, put child into school etc without one 

Residencia - I know people who have been here for 10 years and still have not got one.

Padrón - SHAMEFULLY huge percentages of expats do not register. The number of people on the padrón affects the funds received by each town from local, regional and national government. If you are not on the padrón and you want to moan that the library has no books in English ..... don´t waste my time. 

Electoral roll - if you want to vote, you must be on that roll. Check with your town hall if your registration on the padrón includes you on the voters list. If it does not then on the day of the next election you will NOT be allowed to vote. End of! 

NOW - how different town halls, police departments choose to interpret these requirements is a completely different matter. If I go into great detail as to how it works in Torrevieja, it will be WRONG at the contigious municipalities of Rojales and Orihuela.


----------



## jojo

I dont have a residencia in Málaga and when I tried to obtain one we were told that they were no longer required due to the EU rules having recently been changed and the information is now on the NIE certificate. On further investigation we found that indeed Brussels had overuled Spains attempt to insist on having the residencia?????????????????

We really do need a definative answer on this!

..... that said, this was two years ago and alot an change in two years LOL


----------



## xabiaxica

SteveHall said:


> Oh dear this is getting into a mess:
> 
> 1) N.I.E. - A fiscal number for foreigners. A Spanish citizen has a N.I.F. ( "e" for foreigner, "F" for fiscal)
> 
> 2) Residencia - Has not been abolished. What HAS been abolished is the neat little cards with a photo that were so useful. One STILL needs to register. One now gets an A4 piece of paper that is no use nor ornament it seems but ........ It is NOT the same as getting a N.I.E. (To "prove" the point - a N.I.E. in Torrevieja comes from Torrevieja but for your residencia one needs to go to Alicante at some obscenely early time in the morning) Completely separate.
> 
> 3) Padrón - is the census.
> 
> 4) Just to help nobody in SOME towns being on the padrón allows you to vote (if you are eligible!). In other towns you ALSO have to apply to be on the electoral roll. USUALLY this is done at the same time as registering on the padrón and by the same people. The department of statistics within the local town hall.
> 
> Bottom line -
> 
> NIE - you cannot "survive" without a NIE number. You should not be able to buy a house, car, put child into school etc without one
> 
> Residencia - I know people who have been here for 10 years and still have not got one.
> 
> Padrón - SHAMEFULLY huge percentages of expats do not register. The number of people on the padrón affects the funds received by each town from local, regional and national government. If you are not on the padrón and you want to moan that the library has no books in English ..... don´t waste my time.
> 
> Electoral roll - if you want to vote, you must be on that roll. Check with your town hall if your registration on the padrón includes you on the voters list. If it does not then on the day of the next election you will NOT be allowed to vote. End of!
> 
> NOW - how different town halls, police departments choose to interpret these requirements is a completely different matter. If I go into great detail as to how it works in Torrevieja, it will be WRONG at the contigious municipalities of Rojales and Orihuela.


tbh I think when you actually use the term 'residencia', that is what confuses people

old style 'residencia' is no longer required or possible

it is merely a list of foreigners


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> tbh I think when you actually use the term 'residencia', that is what confuses people
> 
> old style 'residencia' is no longer required or possible
> 
> it is merely a list of foreigners


I agree. The vocabulary is important. It's a case of Mind Your Language. See my previous post


----------



## SteveHall

Jojo, Xabiachica .... that may well be true!

Let´s make it very "concrete". 

In Torrevieja I would go to the "windmill office" in Torrevieja for a NIE number 
I would go to Alicante City to register on this "list of foreigners" (National Police Function) 
I would go to the town hall annexe in Torrevieja to register on the padrón 
I would ask the same funcionario to ensure that I was on the electoral roll 

In contigious Orihuela Costa 

I would go to the Orihuela Costa Town hall-cum-police station for a NIE number 
I would go to Elche to register on this "list of foreigners" (National Police Function) 
I would go to the Orihuela Costa Town hall-cum-police station to register on the padrón 
I would fill in ANOTHER application with the same funcionario to place me on the electoral roll 

This is as at Wednesday 23 February 2010 ....what it will be like by the 24th is anyone's guess!


----------



## shoemanpete

Hi all, have been looking with interst at all the replies and very helpful info on the residencias, padrons etc. Glad you were able to get a definitive answer at last for us all.
I found on the British Consulate website some info on the Padron(some you already know) which I pasted below:-
------------------------------------------------
Once you’ve completed the simple process, you can begin to enjoy all the advantages being on the padrón offers, such as:

*Better public services*
Central Government allocates money to the different municipalities according to how many people are on the padrón. Therefore, if you are not registered, your town hall is losing money for the provision of health centres, police officers, fire fighters and schools.

*Access to benefits and social care*
You must be on the padrón for a certain period of time to take advantage of some income-related benefits and other aspects of social care available through social services at your town hall.

*A reduction in taxes*
Depending on the town hall, registration on the padrón could mean up to 50% off Property Tax, as well as reductions in certain community charges and inheritance tax. Furthermore, those on the padrón can also often enjoy discounted courses, leisure and cultural activities run by the town hall.

*Voting rights*
In order to register to vote in local or European elections, you must first be registered on the padrón.

*An easier life*
You’ll find you need your padrón certificate to carry out various administrative tasks, such as register for healthcare, register your car with Spanish number plates or enrol your children in school.


----------



## Stravinsky

JodiSte said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I have now spoken to the Spanish representation here in Brussels and I might be able to clarify a few things:
> 
> N.I.E. Número de Identificación de Extranjero is exactly what it says. An Identification number for foreigners. It is also a tax number for foreigners and is required for any type of purchase or other tax situation.
> 
> Yes, we know that!
> 
> What you call a list of foreigners is nothing else than the residencia registration and you do or should receive a certificate.
> 
> 
> Yes, and no where on that certificate does it mention residencia. The certificate you get is headed "Certificado De Registro De Ciudadano De La Union - El Encargado Del Registro Central De Extranjeros En La Comisiria Local De Gandi" It might be what the Spanish were forced to introduce because of EU rulings, but ask them here and it aint a residency certificate
> 
> 
> To this is vital as this information is passed on to Madrid and the smaller towns which life of tourism rely on payments from Madrid and as more people registre as more money comes their way. (that's the theory, anyway)
> 
> 
> Its actually the Padron (empadronamiento) that gives the local town halls revenues when you sign on when the numbers are passed back to Government. I had to go to a town some distance from my home town hall to get registered on the foreinors list .. the padron is what gets my town hall its funds
> 
> If you live in Spain for more then 183 days a year you are obliged to fill in a tax return in Spain, Income or not.
> 
> 
> Yes, no one is arguing with that, although not _all_ income in the UK is taken for Spanish revenue purposes
> 
> It is not necessary to prove if you can support yourself, but they can ask you to prove any type of income you have and can/will communicate with your previous country of residence to check you out. You also have to inform them of any convictions or court cases against you.
> 
> 
> I know of no one (and I am a moderator on the largest ex pat forum there is where this has been discussed before) who has ever been asked this question
> 
> Just to make things clear. This is exactly the same in the UK. If you want to live in the UK as a European foreigner you will need to register with the council and foreign office and declare your residency. This is since the beginning of this year. In the UK you will receive a Foreigners Identity card. Within the next 2 years this will/should be the same in all European countries. It has been like this in Germany, Italy, Austria and France for a long time.
> 
> In Spain you can ask for a Spanish Foreigners Identity card and they will have to give you one. I am aware that in some areas they probably never heard of it. In this case speak to the foreigners office in Madrid or Barcelona and they will help you (as I have been told).
> 
> 
> Interesting. Again, I know of no one who has expressed any knowledge of this document. We'd have one if there was anything available. The new Foreigners list certificate is A4 and difficult to carry around
> 
> In Spain you are obliged to carry an Identification with you at all times. If you don't want to carry your huge passport with you it might be a good idea to get one of those cards. I used to have a small copy of my passport in a plastic cover with me at all times and never had a problem with it, but no guarantees here.
> 
> 
> The shrunk down passport is not accepted as an official form of identity here I'm afraid
> 
> The excerpt from the European Union I've posted before is up-to-date. This was confirmed to me. Each country tries to implement the European ruling in their own way and yes they very often get it wrong. That's why people go to court, win the case and the country has to adjust. Spain is not the fastest here and during the 9 years I lived there the rules changed almost every year and the abogados or asesores don't know themselves anymore what is going on.
> 
> 
> Which I guess is what these forums are all about. Telling people what *actually* happens and what you have to do to to get yourself set up here. Not doing what someone in Brussels tells you, because you wont get anywhere here that way! We have to do what is required of us HERE. If it is wrong, then thats a matter for a higher power than us, but it IS what happens here.
> 
> However, you are all European citizens and you have the right to live in any country in the European Union as they can't kick you out as long as you play by the rules. I have found that most Spanish authorities take these issues lightly and if you got it wrong they just let you know without a fine. However, I would always advice the help and advice of an good abogado or trustworthy asesor.
> 
> If anyone needs information from the European Union Commission here in Brussels let me know and I will see how I can help.
> Cheers
> 
> PS: Within the next 2 years there will be a mandatory online registration for residency. You will need to declare your country of residency and you can only be resident in one country at the time. The same will be for free-lance workers and employees. Prepare yourself.



Hope this explains where I'm coming from ....... I'm not having a go at you, I'm just explaining that this forum is about what people have to do that are living here. Theres no point in us telling people what ought to happen (if indeed that is the case) because they would get into a terrible mess.


----------



## SteveHall

Stravinsky said:


> Hope this explains where I'm coming from ....... I'm not having a go at you, I'm just explaining that this forum is about what people have to do that are living here. Theres no point in us telling people what ought to happen (if indeed that is the case) because they would get into a terrible mess.


Spot on, Strav


----------



## Caz.I

The confusion about residencia also continues unfortunately because the banks distinguish between residents and non-residents (or has this changed very recently too?) when it comes to opening bank accounts. 

I initially had a couple of non resident bank accounts here and a non resident mortgage and i hadnt either the resident card or the blue certificate despite being here years (long story). Then I was sent a letter in 2008 to say I had to prove I was not resident to maintain my non resident bank account (I believe it is to do with taxation purposes.) (Still with me?) So the bank told me that as I was living here and paying taxes here I should get the blue certificate to prove residency. It does indeed say on the certificate that you are registering on the foreigners list, but later on it mentions, *as resident in the community of Spain*!

After I got the blue certificate I took it to the bank, and had to open a new resident bank account, as they had to close my non resident one. i also argued that therefore my mortgage should become a residents mortgage (with the lower interest rate of course) but they would not accept that argument - surprise surprise 

I had a letter last year from my other bank where I have a non resident bank account also asking me to prove I was not resident, the form only gave you the option of signing to say you were non resident, so I didnt send it back. And heard nothing more.

I have been asked for the blue certificate as proof of my NIE (though have another bit of paper for the NIE!) and have had to show it for all sorts of things (legal aid, free prescriptions, unemployment benefit) to show that I am resident here so its definitely worth having if you live here. 

Though would much prefer a nice little card to flash about instead. 

Caz.I


----------



## EMMYLOUTOM

Hi is this you nie certificate ???


----------



## natalieml

This is the latest info in this weeks Sur in English

Inconsistent implementation of new 'padrón' renewal sparks confusion. Surinenglish.com


----------



## gabriele

*Padron Spain and Tenerife*



graeme21 said:


> Hi all
> New to this site. And just reading some posts. I see there have been no recent posts on this subject. But just to add to the information, I live in the Comunidad Valencia region and in our little town, if you need to use the Padron for any 'officialdom' matters it is only valid for 3 months. If you need an up to date one, you just visit the Ayuntamiento and request a new one. We don't pay for new one, but I understand in some places they do charge a nominal fee.


The padron is a very useful paper on Tenerife Island. It entitles you to discounts with inter island flights, such as Binter airlines, or ferry charges, cheaper entrance to attractions etc. The Tenerife document is only valid for 2 month to the best of my knowledge and costs a small fee every time you need it.


----------



## UKinSpain

*Confusion over re-registering on the padron*



natalieml said:


> This is the latest info in this weeks Sur in English
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Our understanding from talking to local and national authorities is that there is currenlty a one-off exercise underway to check the accuracy of the padron registers. This means you may be contacted to confirm your status on the padron. If you are contacted, you will be asked to answer in order to remain active on the padron and if you don't then you may be removed from the register. If you are not contacted, you are not required to confirm your status.
> 
> For certain services (e.g. social services) you may be required to show a recent padron certificate which is less than 3 months old. This is normal procedure and is not related to the above mentioned project.
> 
> Non-EU citizens are required to renew their padron certificate in any case.
> 
> You should contact your local authority about any changes to the padron registration process.
> 
> I hope this helps a little to clear things up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Sally
> 
> British Embassy Madrid,
> Promoting British interests with Commitment, Consistency and Confidence
> ukinspain.fco.gov.uk


----------



## Funrunna

*More than 30 days!*



Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 30 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


I've been here since 24th of March so. Quite a way past 30 days... Do I have any options? Does anyone know of a nearer 'Oficina de Estranjeros' than Caceres, Extremadura please?


----------



## almendros

Funrunna said:


> I've been here since 24th of March so. Quite a way past 30 days... Do I have any options? Does anyone know of a nearer 'Oficina de Estranjeros' than Caceres, Extremadura please?


The requirement to register is 90 days, not 30.


----------



## Stravinsky

almendros said:


> The requirement to register is 90 days, not 30.


Point us to where it says that please, official sources here have always said 30


----------



## almendros

Stravinsky said:


> Point us to where it says that please, official sources here have always said 30


It has always been 90 days. You have the complete right under EU law to spend up to 90 days in any member state without any formalities - after that the member state MAY impose the obligation for you to register.



Here are the relevant points from both the EU and Spanish law.


From the EU directive 2004/38/EC Article 6

Right of residence for up to three months

1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport. 

From the Spanish law REAL DECRETO 240/2007, de 16 de febrero, sobre entrada, libre circulación y residencia en España de ciudadanos de los Estados miembros de la Unión Europea y de otros Estados parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo.

Artículo 7. Residencia superior a tres meses de ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo. 

1. Los ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo tienen derecho a residir en territorio español por un período superior a tres meses. Los interesados estarán obligados a solicitar personalmente ante la Oficina de Extranjeros de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia o, en su defecto, ante la Comisaría de Policía correspondiente, su inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros. Dicha solicitud deberá presentarse en el plazo de tres meses contados desde la fecha de entrada en España, siéndole expedido de forma inmediata un certificado de registro en el que constará el nombre, nacionalidad y domicilio de la persona registrada, su número de identidad de extranjero, y la fecha de registro.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

almendros said:


> It has always been 90 days. You have the complete right under EU law to spend up to 90 days in any member state without any formalities - after that the member state MAY impose the obligation for you to register.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the relevant points from both the EU and Spanish law.
> 
> 
> From the EU directive 2004/38/EC Article 6
> 
> Right of residence for up to three months
> 
> 1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.
> 
> From the Spanish law REAL DECRETO 240/2007, de 16 de febrero, sobre entrada, libre circulación y residencia en España de ciudadanos de los Estados miembros de la Unión Europea y de otros Estados parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo.
> 
> Artículo 7. Residencia superior a tres meses de ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo.
> 
> 1. Los ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo tienen derecho a residir en territorio español por un período superior a tres meses. Los interesados estarán obligados a solicitar personalmente ante la Oficina de Extranjeros de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia o, en su defecto, ante la Comisaría de Policía correspondiente, su inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros. Dicha solicitud deberá presentarse en el plazo de tres meses contados desde la fecha de entrada en España, siéndole expedido de forma inmediata un certificado de registro en el que constará el nombre, nacionalidad y domicilio de la persona registrada, su número de identidad de extranjero, y la fecha de registro.


And it says here you need to apply _*within*_ the first three months if you're going to stay _*more*_ than 3 months


----------



## Trading Places

*Orihuela Costa Ayuntamiento*

Hi all,
This is my first post on the forum so be gentle with me...
My partner and I intend to rent and stay in Spain ad infinitum from the end of June in the Villamartin area.

Has anyone here tried for NIE and residencia at the Orihuela Costa, Playa Flamenca Ayuntamiento as I have seen conflicting procedures on different websites.
Basically, one website has confused the hell out of me by stating that at this town hall you must apply for residencia BEFORE NIE!!  Is this correct ?
I have downloaded the EX14 and EX16 and cannot see how you can apply for residencia without having your NIE number first.

Also do I still need to complete a Modulo 790 form if I do not intend to work?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Trading Places


----------



## almendros

You apply on Form EX16 and if you haven't already got an NIE you get one then and it is shown on the new certificate of registration.

Form 790 is just the payment form that you get stamped at a nearby bank to show you have paid the application fee of €10. When you take that back they hand over the certificate.

I think you may be confused about applying for the padron at the local town hall and for that, they do normally require that you register with the police first.


----------



## peanut

Heading to Spain in a couple of months. I'm Romanian ,my husband is Iranian and has Romanian residency. What do we have to do once we arrive there? As far as I understand we don't need to do anything for 90 days. We're going to check out Spain and would like very much to settle down there. Since I have two little kids,my husband is the one who'll stay there longer and I'll move back and forth. But probably I have to be there to prove he's married to a UE national when he files for residency card.
What does my husband have to do? Register at the police station,required to have residency card,etc?


----------



## mandy_moo_1

*tracing old NEI number*

hubby and i lived in spain about 7 yrs ago, but had to come back to the uk for family reasons....

anyway....whilst we were there, we got out NEI numbers, and are now making plans to move back there

can't find our NEI numbers, so i just wondered would they still be valid, and is there a way of tracing them? i think we registered in Denia, or would it be easier to just register again?

also, this time we're planning on taking our UK campervan, and touring Spain, Portugal etc, and hardly coming back to the UK....would we still need to register the camper on Spanish plates as we would obviously be out of the UK for more than 6 mths...in fact it would only be on rare occasions that we would even come back

and if we were to tour the whole of spain,portugal etc, do we need spanish residency/plates, if we say for example, spent 6mths in spain, 6mths in portugal, then back to spain again? or would we have to mess on and get portuguese residence as well?

also, is there any where i can find a step by step guide on registering the camper to spanish plates, to make it a bit easier for me to understand?

sorry for all the questions,so any help is appreciated


----------



## xabiaxica

mandy_moo_1 said:


> hubby and i lived in spain about 7 yrs ago, but had to come back to the uk for family reasons....
> 
> anyway....whilst we were there, we got out NEI numbers, and are now making plans to move back there
> 
> can't find our NEI numbers, so i just wondered would they still be valid, and is there a way of tracing them? i think we registered in Denia, or would it be easier to just register again?
> 
> also, this time we're planning on taking our UK campervan, and touring Spain, Portugal etc, and hardly coming back to the UK....would we still need to register the camper on Spanish plates as we would obviously be out of the UK for more than 6 mths...in fact it would only be on rare occasions that we would even come back
> 
> and if we were to tour the whole of spain,portugal etc, do we need spanish residency/plates, if we say for example, spent 6mths in spain, 6mths in portugal, then back to spain again? or would we have to mess on and get portuguese residence as well?
> 
> also, is there any where i can find a step by step guide on registering the camper to spanish plates, to make it a bit easier for me to understand?
> 
> sorry for all the questions,so any help is appreciated


just go back to Denia - the office has moved in the last year or so, but back the Policia National, anyway

within 3 months you _should_ sign on the residents list in Spain anyway - tell them then that you've lost your NIEs & they'll find them for you

I don't know what you are supposed to do if you're touring - ie no fixed address:confused2:

I don't know about Portugal either......................


----------



## almendros

When you got your NIE they would have used your UK passport numbers as the ID. If you have renewed your passport since then, they will have changed so you will need to see if you have a note of the old numbers which will make it easier to trace your original NIE.

Is your camper LHD? If not you will not probably not be able to register it on Spanish plates.

Re-registering a vehicle is a complicated and potentially expensive process. It is possible to do it yourself but most people use the services of a specialist to do it for them.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mike kelly said:


> what is this document SUPPOSED to be good for? a pice of paper with no photo? It just makes no sense at all to me!


It only gives the NIE number of the person who figures on the document. Of course, to prove that that person is you, you have to produce your passport! I'm still using my card which ran out in Jan for ID and touch wood, so far no one's noticed, but they will do one day...


----------



## SueBrown

*residencia*



Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 30 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


The padron certificate is called an Empadrimento certificate in the Canaries and is proof that have a home here, it is very simple to obtain free from the local town hall as long as you know your address. It is now needed when claiming discounted travel by ferry to the mainland or to the islands. Beware, it only lasts for 6 months, but is easily renewed.

Getting a residencia is slightly more complicated, but making sure you are in the correct queue and are not in the immigration queue for non EU people helps a lot and is now much faster for us.


----------



## boldlygoes

I have read the various posts regarding the Padron.
In La Marina, which comes under Elche in the Alicante region, we have been told that you can only register on the Padron if you are a resident. This was stated by a Solicitor, who made a phone call to the council office to double check she had the correct information.
Who is going to become a resident just to get on the Padron, confused.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

boldlygoes said:


> I have read the various posts regarding the Padron.
> In La Marina, which comes under Elche in the Alicante region, we have been told that you can only register on the Padron if you are a resident. This was stated by a Solicitor, who made a phone call to the council office to double check she had the correct information.
> Who is going to become a resident just to get on the Padron, confused.


The reason you have to register with your local town hall (empadronarse) is so that the government know how many people are living in an area. The town hall receives money according to how many people live in each area. That's why it's a legal requirement for residents. As a resident you may need to do many things which require a certificate from the town hall, like register for some town hall organised activity, take your children to school, get a driving licence ...


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> The reason you have to register with your local town hall (empadronarse) is so that the government know how many people are living in an area. The town hall receives money according to how many people live in each area. That's why it's a legal requirement for residents. As a resident you may need to do many things which require a certificate from the town hall, like register for some town hall organised activity, take your children to school, get a driving licence ...


.............and also you're supposed to register as resident anyway if you're planning to live here more than 3 months.................


----------



## Stravinsky

boldlygoes said:


> Who is going to become a resident just to get on the Padron, confused.


Yes, as just said .... you have to register on the foreigners list (what used to be called residencia) if you are going to live here, you have no choice. You must do that within 3 months of arriving here with the intent to reside.

When I bought my car I was unable to register it in my name without being on the padron ... so both procedures are quite important to living here in Spain


----------



## neilmac

xabiachica said:


> .............and also you're supposed to register as resident anyway if you're planning to live here more than 3 months.................


O'er when did this change please have you got a link for me to read? Is that a recent change from the 182 day rule?


----------



## xabiaxica

neilmac said:


> O'er when did this change please have you got a link for me to read? Is that a recent change from the 182 day rule?



it changed ages & ages ago

separate issue - I think the 182 day thing is for tax

90 days is for living here


there's a sticky thread on here about it & if you look at the ukinspain website it tells you there too


I'd post links - but my t'internet has just ground to a halt & I can only get one tab open at the mo


edit - ha - speeded up again!!

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/2724-residency-certificates-eu-residents.html


http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-spain/residence-req


----------



## neilmac

xabiachica said:


> it changed ages & ages ago
> 
> separate issue - I think the 182 day thing is for tax
> 
> 90 days is for living here
> 
> 
> there's a sticky thread on here about it & if you look at the ukinspain website it tells you there too
> 
> 
> I'd post links - but my t'internet has just ground to a halt & I can only get one tab open at the mo
> 
> 
> edit - ha - speeded up again!!
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/2724-residency-certificates-eu-residents.html
> 
> 
> Entry & residence requirements


Oh thanks for that yes I think I was getting in a muddle. Its just that sometimes you worry that something mught get passed you - it is difficult to always keep abreast.


----------



## gabriele

Why would somebody need to register as a resident in any European country for the reason of spending more than 3 months living there? European borders are open for coming and going. All the relevant governments are interested in is tax by people who live there more than 6 months. In the meantime, make sure to have proof that you pay your world income somewhere. This includes wages which normally should be paid where you work. 
There is one other thing which Spain is much interested in and that is control of cellular telephones. If you are hooked up to a Spanish provider your cell phone needs registering with it by a Spanish address. When it is with vodaphone you must go with it to Vodaphone, for example. This also keeps you in the clear if your cellular telephone is stolen and has been used by somebody from Spain's Bask terrorists. The registration of mobile phones is Spanish law since this year or last year 2009.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

gabriele said:


> Why would somebody need to register as a resident in any European country for the reason of spending more than 3 months living there? European borders are open for coming and going. All the relevant governments are interested in is tax by people who live there more than 6 months. In the meantime, make sure to have proof that you pay your world income somewhere. This includes wages which normally should be paid where you work.
> There is one other thing which Spain is much interested in and that is control of cellular telephones. If you are hooked up to a Spanish provider your cell phone needs registering with it by a Spanish address. When it is with vodaphone you must go with it to Vodaphone, for example. This also keeps you in the clear if your cellular telephone is stolen and has been used by somebody from Spain's Bask terrorists. The registration of mobile phones is Spanish law since this year or last year 2009.


Putting it another way, what's the problem with registering as a resident? :confused2: ?
Is it a problem with the Big Brother is watching you syndrome? If it is, I can understand that, but you can be sure that it's happening all the time all over the world. Have you seen all the cctv cameras in the UK?? There, you're not only being tracked, but also filmed!!
As for reasons why you'd want to register apart from the reasons you yourself have given  (and the government I think is just as worried about foreign terrorists using cell phones as in the Madrid attacks as their own Baque terrorists) there are many listed on this thread, but more recently look at posts 33, 36 and 38


----------



## gabriele

*Registering for Spain residence for any stay*



Pesky Wesky said:


> Putting it another way, what's the problem with registering as a resident? :confused2: ?
> Is it a problem with the Big Brother is watching you syndrome? If it is, I can understand that, but you can be sure that it's happening all the time all over the world. Have you seen all the cctv cameras in the UK?? There, you're not only being tracked, but also filmed!!
> As for reasons why you'd want to register apart from the reasons you yourself have given  (and the government I think is just as worried about foreign terrorists using cell phones as in the Madrid attacks as their own Baque terrorists) there are many listed on this thread, but more recently look at posts 33, 36 and 38


I am simply watching the coming and going of the so called winter birds in Tenerife. 
Those are tourists that spend any time on the island depending on having their own holiday home or on how cheap they can rent one. They stay any time from 2 months to 6 months. Many coud never tell you for sure what they would plan for the following winter. As I have noticed, few of them apply for any residence permit. Most have a NIE number, though to be able to rent cars, for example. 
I know a couple of German surgeons who come several times per year to recover energy on the biggest of all Canary Islands. They come like regular tourists.


----------



## natalieml

jojo said:


> there is no such list I'm afraid. There is mass unemployment in Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


Great that we can download the forms and for my NIE I can apply through the Spanish Consulate here - evebn easier, BUT as always I am stuck.

Can anyone help??

Question 4 on the form says :

DATOS DEL REPRESENTANTE LEGAL DEL SOLICITANTE, EN LOS CASOS DE EXCEPTUACIÓN DE LA OBLIGACIÓN
DE PRESENTACIÓN PERSONAL DE LA SOLICITUD

Which I think is asking for the full name of my representative in Spain and their NIE/DNI number.

So - do I have to fill this in and if so what do I need to put?


----------



## xabiaxica

natalieml said:


> Great that we can download the forms and for my NIE I can apply through the Spanish Consulate here - evebn easier, BUT as always I am stuck.
> 
> Can anyone help??
> 
> Question 4 on the form says :
> 
> DATOS DEL REPRESENTANTE LEGAL DEL SOLICITANTE, EN LOS CASOS DE EXCEPTUACIÓN DE LA OBLIGACIÓN
> DE PRESENTACIÓN PERSONAL DE LA SOLICITUD
> 
> Which I think is asking for the full name of my representative in Spain and their NIE/DNI number.
> 
> So - do I have to fill this in and if so what do I need to put?


it means if you're not going to go to the office yourself - the info of the person who is representing you


----------



## natalieml

xabiachica said:


> it means if you're not going to go to the office yourself - the info of the person who is representing you


Thanks but if I am doing it through the Spanish Consulate in London what do I put?? As they are not in Spain or am I allowed to leave it blank??

The form has to be typed as handwritten forms are not accepted. 

What to do???


----------



## xabiaxica

natalieml said:


> Thanks but if I am doing it through the Spanish Consulate in London what do I put?? As they are not in Spain or am I allowed to leave it blank??
> 
> The form has to be typed as handwritten forms are not accepted.
> 
> What to do???


I don't know for sure - but I think you have to go to the Spanish Embassy in person

I helped someone with the forms for their adult children who live in NZ - they had to take the forms themselves to the Spanish Embassy there


----------



## natalieml

xabiachica said:


> I don't know for sure - but I think you have to go to the Spanish Embassy in person
> 
> I helped someone with the forms for their adult children who live in NZ - they had to take the forms themselves to the Spanish Embassy there


Yes your right I have to take the forms to the embassy in London which is not a problem. I need 2 photos, my passport and a photocopy of my passport but I have to take the forms with me already completed - 2 copies that cannot be handwritten.

So - do we think it is OK to leave this section blank as I do not have a representative in Spain applying for me??


----------



## xabiaxica

natalieml said:


> Yes your right I have to take the forms to the embassy in London which is not a problem. I need 2 photos, my passport and a photocopy of my passport but I have to take the forms with me already completed - 2 copies that cannot be handwritten.
> 
> So - do we think it is OK to leave this section blank as I do not have a representative in Spain applying for me??


yes - leave it blank because you are representing yourself


tbh - wouldn't it be easier just to sign on as resident & get your NIE all in one go when you get here?


----------



## inysteve

*Padron Certificate?*



Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 90 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


Hi, can you please let me know what a Paron Certificate is?

Thanks


----------



## xabiaxica

inysteve said:


> Hi, can you please let me know what a Paron Certificate is?
> 
> Thanks



when you are resident you have to go to the local ayuntamiento (council offices) & sign on

the local council gets money from central government for every person registered as living in the town


----------



## inysteve

xabiachica said:


> when you are resident you have to go to the local ayuntamiento (council offices) & sign on
> 
> the local council gets money from central government for every person registered as living in the town


Thanks for that, very helpful


----------



## MaidenScotland

Am I reading this correctly.

Can I apply for an NIE before I arrive in Spain.
If so I presume I just make an appointment at the local Spanish Embassy


----------



## xabiaxica

MaidenScotland said:


> Am I reading this correctly.
> 
> Can I apply for an NIE before I arrive in Spain.
> If so I presume I just make an appointment at the local Spanish Embassy


yes you're reading it correctly


----------



## dgjamison

Stravinsky said:


> You have 30 days from when you arrive in the country with the intention to live here. A lot of town halls are not allowing you to sign on the padron unless you have a certificate now, and I have heard of some people not being able to register a car in their name without one


HI stravinsky, if my husband and I drive to spain to stay for an extended holiday approx 9-12 months, do we need to do anything as we are not permanent residents but checking to see if we like it enough to stay permanently. I have heard if you stay over 6 months you can run into problems with your car registration and you are classed as a resident is this right?


----------



## boldlygoes

xabiachica said:


> .............and also you're supposed to register as resident anyway if you're planning to live here more than 3 months.................


Yes you are correct about having to register if living here for more than 3 months. Our friends do not live here for more than 3 months. 
They own a property, in the Alicante area, and assumed that they could sign on the Padron to help the local authorities with the allocation of funds. They cant register for the Padron because they are not residents.
It used to be the case that you could register for the Padron even if you rented a property. Now an owners cant register, doesn't seem right to me.


----------



## xabiaxica

boldlygoes said:


> Yes you are correct about having to register if living here for more than 3 months. Our friends do not live here for more than 3 months.
> They own a property, in the Alicante area, and assumed that they could sign on the Padron to help the local authorities with the allocation of funds. They cant register for the Padron because they are not residents.
> It used to be the case that you could register for the Padron even if you rented a property. Now an owners cant register, doesn't seem right to me.


we rent & we're on the padron - it's a register for people who _live here full time_ - owner or not


when we first came they were actively encouraging non-residents to register - but in most areas this is no longer possible


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> :clap2:
> 
> just leave out the soccer


and the sangría - tinto de verano is much better.

Expats registering on the Padron means more money from central government for the community in which you live which equals lower local taxes/improved services. Just imagine if you are in one of those areas (heaven forbid) with a high proportion of Expats, very few of whom are on the Padron, this would mean those who are living there legitimately are having to pay for all the services on their own!


----------



## gabriele

*Empadronado for voting and your say*



baldilocks said:


> and the sangría - tinto de verano is much better.
> 
> Expats registering on the Padron means more money from central government for the community in which you live which equals lower local taxes/improved services. Just imagine if you are in one of those areas (heaven forbid) with a high proportion of Expats, very few of whom are on the Padron, this would mean those who are living there legitimately are having to pay for all the services on their own!



Those who are empadronado, which means registered as residents in their community, may not only pay tax. They also get automatic invitations to vote for their local community. This means the right to stand up for themselves. They can vote for a nursery school, better medical care or elderly assistance. Perhaps, you may vote for a new yacht harbor or a better bus system. 

By the way, when not enough taxes are paid, no or hardly any services will be given. Not to forget are wages for civil services. The age old drama like all over the world... Oh please, don't misunderstand this statement. ..Civil employees are important, such as a good police and more. It's just that so many moan about them, unfortunately.


----------



## robinjgraham

I thought photographs were needed when submitting the form. By the way, what is the difference between form EX - 14 and EX -16. Does anyone know?

Thanks


----------



## xabiaxica

robinjgraham said:


> I thought photographs were needed when submitting the form. By the way, what is the difference between form EX - 14 and EX -16. Does anyone know?
> 
> Thanks


some places will ask for a photo - although who knows why??


best to take some just in case


from memory, the EX14 is just for a NIE (if you don't live here)

the EX16 is to register as resident - & they'll do a NIE for you at the same time if you don't already have one


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> some places will ask for a photo - although who knows why??
> 
> 
> best to take some just in case
> 
> 
> from memory, the EX14 is just for a NIE (if you don't live here)
> 
> the EX16 is to register as resident - & they'll do a NIE for you at the same time if you don't already have one


Its all a muddle really isnt it!! Málaga now do NIE/residencia as one! You dont need photos (altho always take em in case they change their minds on the day you go lol) but they do need birth certificates and your parents names now!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Its all a muddle really isnt it!! Málaga now do NIE/residencia as one! You dont need photos (altho always take em in case they change their minds on the day you go lol) but they do need birth certificates and your parents names now!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


birth certificates???



for everyone???


won't passports do??


it's not really a muddle though

one form for residents, one for non-residents


simples


the only muddle is if whoever is working on the day demands something that the form doesn't say is required


----------



## mrypg9

I haven't read thro'this thread - too long and it's too hot -but the process is simple if you download the form which Stravinsky helpfully provided as a sticky and take it with the photos and anything else required (passport was all I took, no birth certificate) and get down to your nearest Police Department as early as possible.


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> birth certificates???
> 
> 
> 
> for everyone???
> 
> 
> won't passports do??
> 
> 
> it's not really a muddle though
> 
> one form for residents, one for non-residents
> 
> 
> simples
> 
> 
> the only muddle is if whoever is working on the day demands something that the form doesn't say is required


You've got Chica!!!! No one tells the poor souls on the desk!! I made enquiries today for my son as he thinks he's going to get a moto  and therefore needs an NIE number - thats what I was told, I did try to ask if the birth certificate was because he was a minor (15) the answer was everyone!!!?????????????? 

Jo xxx


----------



## almendros

I really don't think they need birth certificates - they would not understand them unless they were translated and that is really going too far.

I put my parents' names on my application form as required - when they printed it out, in the space for their names it said -"Ignored"!


----------



## jojo

almendros said:


> I really don't think they need birth certificates - they would not understand them unless they were translated and that is really going too far.


I totally agree, but thats what the man said!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## dolcemio

Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 90 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.


what about non eu citizens ??


----------



## xabiaxica

dolcemio said:


> what about non eu citizens ??


I depends where you are from - there are different restrictions for people from different countries


----------



## dolcemio

xabiachica said:


> I depends where you are from - there are different restrictions for people from different countries


so from the commonwealth countries --australia/NZ???
WHAT ABOUT SOMEONE FROM iTALY --A RETIREE


----------



## xabiaxica

dolcemio said:


> so from the commonwealth countries --australia/NZ???
> WHAT ABOUT SOMEONE FROM iTALY --A RETIREE


an Italian - as an EU citizen - no problem


from Australia/NZ I don't know

these links should help

Australian Embassy, Spain - Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade


Spain | NZEmbassy.com


----------



## robinjgraham

Thanks for that - I had both forms and was wondering which was the right one.



xabiachica said:


> some places will ask for a photo - although who knows why??
> 
> 
> best to take some just in case
> 
> 
> from memory, the EX14 is just for a NIE (if you don't live here)
> 
> the EX16 is to register as resident - & they'll do a NIE for you at the same time if you don't already have one


----------



## Stravinsky

robinjgraham said:


> Thanks for that - I had both forms and was wondering which was the right one.


Best get the pain over in one go if I were you!


----------



## giritana

Stravinsky said:


> Best get the pain over in one go if I were you!


Hi - I got my residency certificate along with my NIE all listed on the same A4 sheet of paper, at our Cadiz commisario de la Policia office for 'extranjeros'. Here we're not yet in the majority as foreigners, (!), AND IT WAS AN EASY PROCESS - a very pleasant and helpful female official behind her desk, no queueing either in the Police Station or in the bank next door where I was sent to pay my 10 euro fee. 

I've since needed to produce it several times - when opening my new bank account here, when making a 'denuncia' at that very same Police Station against our drunken crazy neighbour who lives in the same block of flats, when setting up contracts for electricity and water connections to my newly rented home - oh, when registering to be eligible to rent he flat, via the 'administrador de fincas!' 
It was also required when signing up as a new patient at my local Centro de Salud - so it's already proven its worth, lol! 

Giritana


----------



## Alcalaina

Not sure if it's mentioned anywhere on this thread but you do have to renew your Padron every now and again. Where we live it is every two years, but you will see an expiry date on there somewhere.

We had this pointed out to us at the health centre when we went to extend our state health cover. No current padron, no free healthcare!

Since it is free, I can't understand why anyone objects to going on the empadronamiento. We have used it to join the library, go on subsidised coach trips, vote in local elections ... as pointed out above, it isn't a Big Brother thing, it's just a way of making sure your community gets centralised funds based on the population head-count.


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Not sure if it's mentioned anywhere on this thread but you do have to renew your Padron every now and again. Where we live it is every two years, but you will see an expiry date on there somewhere.
> 
> We had this pointed out to us at the health centre when we went to extend our state health cover. No current padron, no free healthcare!
> 
> Since it is free, I can't understand why anyone objects to going on the empadronamiento. We have used it to join the library, go on subsidised coach trips, vote in local elections ... as pointed out above, it isn't a Big Brother thing, it's just a way of making sure your community gets centralised funds based on the population head-count.


apparently it's every 5 years for EU citizens & every 2 for non-EU

but regardless of that - you always need a new padron certificate whenever you need to present one - usually one less than 3 months old


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> apparently it's every 5 years for EU citizens & every 2 for non-EU
> 
> but regardless of that - you always need a new padron certificate whenever you need to present one - usually one less than 3 months old


Depends where you are I think, each Ayuntamiento can use its own discretion. We are EU citizens and ours lasted two years.


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Depends where you are I think, each Ayuntamiento can use its own discretion. We are EU citizens and ours lasted two years.


yes, there is some confusion - apparently the law has changed recently & it depends upon whether you originally registered with a passport or old residencia/new resident''s cert


but as I said - it's a moot point anyway - no-one who wants a copy of your empadronamiento will accept a cert less than 3 months old!


----------



## gabriele

*Need patron for Ferry Fred Olsen and others*



xabiachica said:


> apparently it's every 5 years for EU citizens & every 2 for non-EU
> 
> but regardless of that - you always need a new padron certificate whenever you need to present one - usually one less than 3 months old


Too true, the same applies in Tenerife or in any other Canary Islands. However, I didn't notice that a patron needs renewing. May be it doesn't when you own property, unless I forgot.


----------



## xabiaxica

gabriele said:


> Too true, the same applies in Tenerife or in any other Canary Islands. However, I didn't notice that a patron needs renewing. May be it doesn't when you own property, unless I forgot.


it's apparently a fairly recent change to the law - & there is still some confusion about it


----------



## gabriele

*recent change in law*



xabiachica said:


> it's apparently a fairly recent change to the law - & there is still some confusion about it


The changes within the law in Spain make me wonder, sometimes...


----------



## KatyandReed

When you have to renew your residencia what do you have to do? and is renewing it any easier then getting one in the first place?


----------



## xabiaxica

KatyandReed said:


> When you have to renew your residencia what do you have to do? and is renewing it any easier then getting one in the first place?


Hi & welcome


I've moved your post too a more relevant thread


do you mean the old 'residencia' which was complicated, or signing on the resident's list?


----------



## KatyandReed

xabiachica said:


> Hi & welcome
> 
> 
> I've moved your post too a more relevant thread
> 
> 
> do you mean the old 'residencia' which was complicated, or signing on the resident's list?


Well I got my residencia "card" 3 or 4 years ago and its valid untill half way through next year just didnt know what to do when it come to renewing it. All I know is that now you get a bit of paper to go with all the other Spanish bits of paper.


----------



## xabiaxica

KatyandReed said:


> Well I got my residencia "card" 3 or 4 years ago and its valid untill half way through next year just didnt know what to do when it come to renewing it. All I know is that now you get a bit of paper to go with all the other Spanish bits of paper.


when or just before it runs out you just sign on the resident's list


much more straightforward - you just download the forms here & take them to your local oficina de extranjeros or national police - ask locally where to go


----------



## maxmom

Ok, being from the United States I know our situation is a bit different, but my husband finally recieved his NIE today-hooray! We had to hire a solicitar to do this dor us, since we were turned away at Gardia National in Denia. Do we both need NIE to register for the padron? We want to enroll our 2 in the local school after the christmas holiday break. After we get on the padron a great source on the site told me the next step is to get an extranjero-wow, the Spanish love paperwork! Do we need this? It's been a year since she got hers, so maybe new rules......thank you!


----------



## Guest

Colleeneelloc said:


> Ok, being from the United States I know our situation is a bit different, but my husband finally recieved his NIE today-hooray! We had to hire a solicitar to do this dor us, since we were turned away at Gardia National in Denia. Do we both need NIE to register for the padron? We want to enroll our 2 in the local school after the christmas holiday break. After we get on the padron a great source on the site told me the next step is to get an extranjero-wow, the Spanish love paperwork! Do we need this? It's been a year since she got hers, so maybe new rules......thank you!


Congrats! You can use your "resguardo" (the provisional NIE) to register for the padron. 

As for "getting an extranjero" - I don't understand. You need to "get a foreigner?" Can you clarify?


----------



## maxmom

halydia said:


> Congrats! You can use your "resguardo" (the provisional NIE) to register for the padron.
> 
> As for "getting an extranjero" - I don't understand. You need to "get a foreigner?" Can you clarify?


I was told this was a piece of paper that said that we were foreigners. Just trying to "cross the i's and dot the t's" so we can get them into school!


----------



## maxmom

My husband got his NIE, do I need one as well as the kids (7&3) for the padron or will they let us do it all on his NIE? Sorry for all the questions!


----------



## Stravinsky

Colleeneelloc said:


> I was told this was a piece of paper that said that we were foreigners. Just trying to "cross the i's and dot the t's" so we can get them into school!


I'm a bit confused .. you're american yes? Not an EU citizen?

Yes, you have to register on the list of foreigners (which used to be called residencia) but unless I'm being silly, thats for EU residents to register. If you are from outside the EU you will need a visa unless your circumstances negate that

I think the forum for "residencia" is EX16 ... but your NIE and "residencia" are on the same A4 document nowadays


And yes you all need NIE numbers and in certain areas your kids need an NIE to register at a school


----------



## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> I'm a bit confused .. you're american yes? Not an EU citizen?
> 
> Yes, you have to register on the list of foreigners (which used to be called residencia) but unless I'm being silly, thats for EU residents to register. If you are from outside the EU you will need a visa unless your circumstances negate that
> 
> I think the forum for "residencia" is EX16 ... but your NIE and "residencia" are on the same A4 document nowadays
> 
> 
> And yes you all need NIE numbers and in certain areas your kids need an NIE to register at a school


yes, you're right


I _believe_ non EU citizens need to fill in the EX 15 which can be found via the sticky you put up for Spanish forms _*Solicitud de Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero*_

but yes, a US citizen needs special visas to live, work & send children to state school here - just as a EU citzen needs special visas to live, work & send children to state school in the US

I will be very interested to see if Colleeneelloc actually gets her children into state school

a lot of people don't realise that as non EU citizens, US citizens don't have the same 'right of abode' (or _right_ to anything else) in Spain as we Brits


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> yes, you're right
> 
> 
> I _believe_ non EU citizens need to fill in the EX 15 which can be found via the sticky you put up for Spanish forms _*Solicitud de Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero*_
> 
> but yes, a US citizen needs special visas to live, work & send children to state school here - just as a EU citzen needs special visas to live, work & send children to state school in the US
> 
> I will be very interested to see if Colleeneelloc actually gets her children into state school
> 
> a lot of people don't realise that as non EU citizens, US citizens don't have the same 'right of abode' (or _right_ to anything else) in Spain as we Brits


It's a bit of a pain... 

You must have (at least applied for) your NIE to be in Spain legally as an American citizen - and this will include your children. I'm a bit surprised this wasn't done at the same time as your husband. Go to the oficina de extranjeros and they should give you an appointment and the list of paperwork that you need to apply for your (and your children's) NIEs. This is all supposing you've got a visa to be here... 

Forget the bit about the "extranjero" - that will be your NIE. After you get that, you can empadronarse, or put yourself on the town hall's register. 

Good luck!


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> It's a bit of a pain...
> 
> You must have (at least applied for) your NIE to be in Spain legally as an American citizen - and this will include your children. I'm a bit surprised this wasn't done at the same time as your husband. Go to the oficina de extranjeros and they should give you an appointment and the list of paperwork that you need to apply for your (and your children's) NIEs. This is all supposing you've got a visa to be here...
> 
> Forget the bit about the "extranjero" - that will be your NIE. After you get that, you can empadronarse, or put yourself on the town hall's register.
> 
> Good luck!


I'm still not sure that the kids will get into state school though - I believe the schools are asking for proof of right to live here now (although like everything that sometimes depends on the mood of the person on the desk on the day)

I did know some Americans here a few years ago who had to go back - they hadn't sorted out their visas & so on before they came (they had been wrongly told to do all that here)

they had the kids in private school because they were turned away by the state schools

we kept in touch for a while after they went back - afaik they never did get the visas to live here


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> I'm still not sure that the kids will get into state school though - I believe the schools are asking for proof of right to live here now (although like everything that sometimes depends on the mood of the person on the desk on the day)
> 
> I did know some Americans here a few years ago who had to go back - they hadn't sorted out their visas & so on before they came (they had been wrongly told to do all that here)
> 
> they had the kids in private school because they were turned away by the state schools
> 
> we kept in touch for a while after they went back - afaik they never did get the visas to live here


I'd be slightly surprised if the kids couldn't get into school (seeing as it's illegal to not have a school-aged child in school), but I'm sure it's different in each comunidad. 

If any Americans (Canadians, Australians, folks from New Zealand, etc.) read this in the future you've got to make sure you have a visa before you can even think of coming to Spain for more time than a tourist.


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> I'd be slightly surprised if the kids couldn't get into school (seeing as it's illegal to not have a school-aged child in school), but I'm sure it's different in each comunidad.
> 
> If any Americans (Canadians, Australians, folks from New Zealand, etc.) read this in the future you've got to make sure you have a visa before you can even think of coming to Spain for more time than a tourist.


exactly - they may well get them into school but it's by no means cut & dried tbh


also, I think that the fact that Colleeneelloc had trouble getting the NIE for her OH makes me think that maybe they didn't get their paperwork sorted before they came


----------



## hola77

hi big pete.....

I know its a long while since youv been on this post but was wondering Re: the NIE no-

I obtained one back in 2005 summer when I worked on an english camp out there.. Im aiming to live in Valencia from aug 2011 onwards to work, better mi espanyol and live for 2 possibly more years... just wondering if the same NIE number will suffice from 05??


gracias


----------



## xicoalc

hola77 said:


> hi big pete.....
> 
> I know its a long while since youv been on this post but was wondering Re: the NIE no-
> 
> I obtained one back in 2005 summer when I worked on an english camp out there.. Im aiming to live in Valencia from aug 2011 onwards to work, better mi espanyol and live for 2 possibly more years... just wondering if the same NIE number will suffice from 05??
> 
> 
> gracias


Yes - your number is issued and remains with you for life!


----------



## Guest

steve_in_spain said:


> Yes - your number is issued and remains with you for life!


I'm not sure how it is for you guys, but do your NIEs expire? And what happens if/when it has expired?


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> I'm not sure how it is for you guys, but do your NIEs expire? And what happens if/when it has expired?


no, the NIE itself doesn't expire


some are getting it confused with signing on the resident list - because for EU members at least - your NIE is issued at the same time if you don't already have one


and of course the OLD _residencia_ did expire (after 5 years?), but I don't think the new one does


----------



## georgina

hi, i have stupidly lost my n.i.e certificate. iS it possible to get a new one on line .can any one give me some information.PLEASE


----------



## Alcalaina

georgina said:


> hi, i have stupidly lost my n.i.e certificate. iS it possible to get a new one on line .can any one give me some information.PLEASE


No, I think you´ll need to go to the Oficina de Extranjeros with your passport etc and get them to print you off another one. Presumably you have other documents with the NIE number on?


----------



## georgina

Thanks for your advice . I can get i sorted now.


----------



## jojo

during my recent move I seem to have mislaid my NIE certificate. Are we sure we cant simply get copy on line??? I also need a social security mumber - I should know this shouldnt I 

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> during my recent move I seem to have mislaid my NIE certificate. Are we sure we cant simply get copy on line??? I also need a social security mumber - I should know this shouldnt I
> 
> Jo xxx


There isn´t anything on the Ministerio del Interior website about replacing lost certificates, and I would be very very surprised if you could get replacements online because it would be too open to fraud. They insist on seeing original documents when you first apply, so they will probably want to see them again to issue a replacement.

.: Ministerio del Interior (España) - Régimen General :.

Have you had a social security number in the past, and just lost it, or are you starting from scratch?


----------



## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> There isn´t anything on the Ministerio del Interior website about replacing lost certificates, and I would be very very surprised if you could get replacements online because it would be too open to fraud. They insist on seeing original documents when you first apply, so they will probably want to see them again to issue a replacement.
> 
> .: Ministerio del Interior (España) - Régimen General :.
> 
> Have you had a social security number in the past, and just lost it, or are you starting from scratch?


Starting from scratch!! An update on the lost NIE/residencia. I have to file a report to say that it is lost with the national police. Once I have done that, I then have an appointment (the earliest date is 3rd Jan 11!!) to have it renewed, but without the report to say its been registered as lost they wont do it!??? As it happens I have to change it anyway because I've moved

Jo xxx


----------



## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> Starting from scratch!! An update on the lost NIE/residencia. I have to file a report to say that it is lost with the national police. Once I have done that, I then have an appointment (the earliest date is 3rd Jan 11!!) to have it renewed, but without the report to say its been registered as lost they wont do it!??? As it happens I have to change it anyway because I've moved
> 
> Jo xxx


Im suprised. I lost our NIE certs a few years ago and I just went to the police station with the number and they gave me a new one.


----------



## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> Im suprised. I lost our NIE certs a few years ago and I just went to the police station with the number and they gave me a new one.


Huh!! Its a big deal here. I wonder if its cos they now combine the NIE number with the residencia certificate, so effectively I've lost both!!??? A flippin' performance I could do without!

Jo xxx


----------



## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> Huh!! Its a big deal here. I wonder if its cos they now combine the NIE number with the residencia certificate, so effectively I've lost both!!??? A flippin' performance I could do without!
> 
> Jo xxx


But you dont want two NIE numbers do you?


----------



## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> But you dont want two NIE numbers do you?


No, but I have to get a replacement residencia certificate with my change of address on it, so I assume the number will stay the same (if one dares to assume anything in Spain LOL) and it'll simply be written on my new residencia! But the very nice lady at the police station was banging on about fraud etc. I have photocopies of the lost one, but they wont do in the world of officialdom!

Jo xxx


----------



## libove

*renewal/re-registration for non-EU residents in Barcelona?*

Does anyone have an update on this (for non-EU citizens who are already empadronado residents), particularly in Barcelona -- I read the information on the ajuntament's webpages, which do clearly say that every two years a non-EU resident in Barcelona must renew his padrón, *but* that residents should not contact the padrón, rather than the padrón would contact us when the time comes. (Sounds a little like the Mob, doesn't it?  ).

Anyway, my two years are clearly up, as I became empadronado in November 2008. However, my entry in the padrón is still current, according to the website. (https://w30.bcn.cat/APPS/portaltram...stpid=20060001287&style=ciudadano&language=es then click on Carpeta del Ciudadano on the right; I have a digital certificate - highly useful, if you don't have one, I recommend getting it). Interestingly, no dates (neither of inscription nor of expiration) show up on that online padrón status report.

So, according to the rules, it seems I a) should have expired by now, and b) further should have received a renewal letter in the mail by now, and c) shouldn't bother the padrón until I do. But as a) and b) aren't in evidence, I'm thinking, should I go to the padrón pre-emptively, to avoid becoming caducado?

Thanks for your experience and advice folks,
Jay (& Yoshiko)



UKinSpain said:


> natalieml said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the latest info in this weeks Sur in English
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Our understanding from talking to local and national authorities is that there is currenlty a one-off exercise underway to check the accuracy of the padron registers. This means you may be contacted to confirm your status on the padron. If you are contacted, you will be asked to answer in order to remain active on the padron and if you don't then you may be removed from the register. If you are not contacted, you are not required to confirm your status.
> 
> For certain services (e.g. social services) you may be required to show a recent padron certificate which is less than 3 months old. This is normal procedure and is not related to the above mentioned project.
> 
> Non-EU citizens are required to renew their padron certificate in any case.
> 
> You should contact your local authority about any changes to the padron registration process.
> 
> I hope this helps a little to clear things up!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Sally
> 
> British Embassy Madrid,
> Promoting British interests with Commitment, Consistency and Confidence
> ukinspain.fco.gov.uk
Click to expand...


----------



## Alcalaina

libove said:


> So, according to the rules, it seems I a) should have expired by now, and b) further should have received a renewal letter in the mail by now, and c) shouldn't bother the padrón until I do. But as a) and b) aren't in evidence, I'm thinking, should I go to the padrón pre-emptively, to avoid becoming caducado?
> 
> Thanks for your experience and advice folks,
> Jay (& Yoshiko)


Ours has an expiry date on, so no ambiguity (hard to believe Andalucia is more efficient than Catalonia!)

If I were you I would just go to the Ayuntamiento and find out.


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> Ours has an expiry date on, so no ambiguity (hard to believe Andalucia is more efficient than Catalonia!)


Not difficult at all - the Cats spend too much time polishing their egos to realise that the rest of Spain may actually do better than them in lots of things.

One person visiting us said "Jaén? "Why would anyone want to live in Jaén Province?" but another said "Beautiful countryside, quiet, no traffic jams, and I have been greeted by more people here in three days than I would in year back home in Barcelona" which probably says it all.


----------



## libove

Alcalaina, would you mind terribly taking a look at these redacted copies of my original empadronamiento document and the Barcelona city website's current display of my padrón data, and tell me if this is even close to what you have on your certificate?
http://www.felines.org/Dad_padro_20081111.jpg
http://www.felines.org/Dad_padro_20101206.jpg

Do those look like the same document you have in mind?

Thanks!
Jay



Alcalaina said:


> Ours has an expiry date on, so no ambiguity (hard to believe Andalucia is more efficient than Catalonia!)
> 
> If I were you I would just go to the Ayuntamiento and find out.


----------



## Alcalaina

libove said:


> Alcalaina, would you mind terribly taking a look at these redacted copies of my original empadronamiento document and the Barcelona city website's current display of my padrón data, and tell me if this is even close to what you have on your certificate?
> http://www.felines.org/Dad_padro_20081111.jpg
> http://www.felines.org/Dad_padro_20101206.jpg
> 
> Do those look like the same document you have in mind?
> 
> Thanks!
> Jay


No, ours are completely different, very old-fashioned and with a blue rubber stamp to validate them.


----------



## libove

Alcalaina said:


> No, ours are completely different, very old-fashioned and with a blue rubber stamp to validate them.


So, is the document you have a certificate of empadronamiento? Or perhaps it's something else? Feel free to send a copy to me at [email protected] (redacted as you feel comfortable); I'm quite curious. Any time the published regulations say one thing (e.g. "you have to renew every two years") and the administration actually does something else (in this case, nothing), I get nervous...

Saludos,
Jay


----------



## Alcalaina

libove said:


> So, is the document you have a certificate of empadronamiento? Or perhaps it's something else? Feel free to send a copy to me at [email protected] (redacted as you feel comfortable); I'm quite curious. Any time the published regulations say one thing (e.g. "you have to renew every two years") and the administration actually does something else (in this case, nothing), I get nervous...
> 
> Saludos,
> Jay


My padron certificate was issued by the Ayuntamiento in the little town where I live, so you would expect it to be different in a big city like Barcelona. Each administration will have its own rules, I´m sure. 

We don´t have any published regulations or online applications here. When my certificate expires I just go up to the Ayuntamiento with the old one, and Domingo prints off a new one and stamps it with his official seal. Eso es.


----------



## libove

Alcalaina said:


> My padron certificate was issued by the Ayuntamiento in the little town where I live, so you would expect it to be different in a big city like Barcelona. Each administration will have its own rules, I´m sure.
> 
> We don´t have any published regulations or online applications here. When my certificate expires I just go up to the Ayuntamiento with the old one, and Domingo prints off a new one and stamps it with his official seal. Eso es.


Je je. Must be nice!

Thanks for your help. I'll drop in on my padrón in the next few days and ask them what's de alta and what's de baja.

Saludos,
Jay


----------



## leannewhite_llw

Hi guys, I don't know if this question has already been answered elsewhere so if it has please just point me in the right direction! I have been living here for two years with my boyfriend and when we arrived my then employers organised a gestoria to sort out all of our papers. As it turns out she was pants! She took us to the police station (in Marbella, we live just outside Puerto Banus) and sorted our NIE, but only gave us a copy of the certificate. When I asked for the original, she told me I wouldn't need it..! She then left us to sort out Social Security, for which we were also just given a photocopy. Since then, I have always used these copies whenever I have needed to provide NIE, but I am now buying a car and trafico want the original. I gather I need to head back to police station and pay for a duplicate which is fine but I need it in a hurry so does anyone know if they provide it there and then, or whether I'll have to wait for it to be posted to me? Also, should I go back to Seguridad Social and try to get the original of that document, or will I be alright with a copy? Last question... Where do I go to get Residencia, the Ayuntamiento or the police station? I have the padron already.

Thanks in advance guys, sorry for all the questions, just wanna get everything sorted in one fell swoop!

Lee


----------



## Alcalaina

Oh dear yes, they often want the originals!

You need to go to the nearest Oficina de Extranjeros to get a replacement NIE and residencia certificate:
.: Ministerio del Interior (España) - Andalucía :.

Good luck!


----------



## jojo

leannewhite_llw said:


> Hi guys, I don't know if this question has already been answered elsewhere so if it has please just point me in the right direction! I have been living here for two years with my boyfriend and when we arrived my then employers organised a gestoria to sort out all of our papers. As it turns out she was pants! She took us to the police station (in Marbella, we live just outside Puerto Banus) and sorted our NIE, but only gave us a copy of the certificate. When I asked for the original, she told me I wouldn't need it..! She then left us to sort out Social Security, for which we were also just given a photocopy. Since then, I have always used these copies whenever I have needed to provide NIE, but I am now buying a car and trafico want the original. I gather I need to head back to police station and pay for a duplicate which is fine but I need it in a hurry so does anyone know if they provide it there and then, or whether I'll have to wait for it to be posted to me? Also, should I go back to Seguridad Social and try to get the original of that document, or will I be alright with a copy? Last question... Where do I go to get Residencia, the Ayuntamiento or the police station? I have the padron already.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys, sorry for all the questions, just wanna get everything sorted in one fell swoop!
> 
> Lee



Its a nightmare that I've just been thu, I lost my original NIE/residencia (the green piece of paper)!! But the quick solution I found was to go to the nearest national police station (where you originally went), report that you have mislayed/lost your original and ask them to ratify your photocopy!! I used this to get my social security number - they gave me an original certificate for that! I also got an appointment to get a duplicate NIE/Residencia certificate, which was yesterday and it was relatively quick and painless!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## leannewhite_llw

jojo said:


> Its a nightmare that I've just been thu, I lost my original NIE/residencia (the green piece of paper)!! But the quick solution I found was to go to the nearest national police station (where you originally went), report that you have mislayed/lost your original and ask them to ratify your photocopy!! I used this to get my social security number - they gave me an original certificate for that! I also got an appointment to get a duplicate NIE/Residencia certificate, which was yesterday and it was relatively quick and painless!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Oh dear, I never had a green piece of paper in the first place! I went today to the police station and they gave me the form that I filled in two years ago to get the NIE, and a payment form to take to the bank for 6.80€. I was a bit confused and concerned that they were gonna register me for a new NIE number so I went to the Extranjeria where she told me I wouldn't be able to use my photocopy for anything - despite me having lived here 2 years, rented a flat, signed work contracts etc all without the original! Anyhoo, she said I have to fill in this form that they've given me and just write a note at the top saying I already have NIE and just need the certificate... Has anyone ever come across this before? It sounds like they do it differently in every town!


----------



## jojo

leannewhite_llw said:


> Oh dear, I never had a green piece of paper in the first place! I went today to the police station and they gave me the form that I filled in two years ago to get the NIE, and a payment form to take to the bank for 6.80€. I was a bit confused and concerned that they were gonna register me for a new NIE number so I went to the Extranjeria where she told me I wouldn't be able to use my photocopy for anything - despite me having lived here 2 years, rented a flat, signed work contracts etc all without the original! Anyhoo, she said I have to fill in this form that they've given me and just write a note at the top saying I already have NIE and just need the certificate... Has anyone ever come across this before? It sounds like they do it differently in every town!


It is different in every town! If nowt else it has just cost me 10 euros for my new copy!!!

The woman in our Extranjaria told me that my photocopy couldnt be used as well, but the woman in the social security office told me it could be used if I had the police report to say that my original had be registered with them as "lost" So thats what I did and it was enough to get me my social security number - however, I did have to have a bit of a tantrum, it seems that unless you are "assertive" these bureaurcrates are happy to pass you around!!!!

If I were you I'd simply pretend that your original was lost and simply make an appointment to get a duplicate at the extranjo place!!! BUT, you MJUST report it to the National police before they will give you a copy! - apparently... well in Benalmadena..... yesterday. It maybe different today and tomorrow....... lol!!!!!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## gabriele

*Originals or Copy of Documents Spain or elsewhere*

How confusing... I have never heard that people only receive copies of originals from an authority, government department or whatever. Those papers are not called documents for nothing. A copy is only good enough to carry around with you every day, in case you get mugged. 
There must be a reason in this madness by the Gestoria of only giving you a photo copy. That reminds me a dental Franchise in Tenerife which doesn't hand out scans or exrays to you. We most probably all come to the same conclusions about this so called madness, hey, hey, hey... We should tell those guys that photo copies of documents may only be worth 10% of their agency charges. Just figure they their agency burns down... Or do you think that they put all their clients originals into a bank safe? That would be the day...
I thought there were only some crazy people on Tenerife Island, the worst being our own compatriots.




leannewhite_llw said:


> Hi guys, I don't know if this question has already been answered elsewhere so if it has please just point me in the right direction! I have been living here for two years with my boyfriend and when we arrived my then employers organised a gestoria to sort out all of our papers. As it turns out she was pants! She took us to the police station (in Marbella, we live just outside Puerto Banus) and sorted our NIE, but only gave us a copy of the certificate. When I asked for the original, she told me I wouldn't need it..! She then left us to sort out Social Security, for which we were also just given a photocopy. Since then, I have always used these copies whenever I have needed to provide NIE, but I am now buying a car and trafico want the original. I gather I need to head back to police station and pay for a duplicate which is fine but I need it in a hurry so does anyone know if they provide it there and then, or whether I'll have to wait for it to be posted to me? Also, should I go back to Seguridad Social and try to get the original of that document, or will I be alright with a copy? Last question... Where do I go to get Residencia, the Ayuntamiento or the police station? I have the padron already.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys, sorry for all the questions, just wanna get everything sorted in one fell swoop!
> 
> Lee


----------



## smiling453

Hi I'm a newbee to this forum I wonder if any one has had to apply for an NIE or a Residencia Cert in the last few weeks and can tell me how difficult it is and how long it may take? I have an NIE which I got from the Notari. A relative is coming out here soon and needs both ........... How long should he book his trip to get get both completed. Thanks


----------



## xabiaxica

smiling453 said:


> Hi I'm a newbee to this forum I wonder if any one has had to apply for an NIE or a Residencia Cert in the last few weeks and can tell me how difficult it is and how long it may take? I have an NIE which I got from the Notari. A relative is coming out here soon and needs both ........... How long should he book his trip to get get both completed. Thanks


hi & welcome


he can't get a resident's cert unless he is resident, so can't really get one on a trip


the time scale for getting a NIE varies area to area & sometimes week to week!


----------



## Lanula

*Why is there so much confusion?*

We arrived Spain only few days ago and we would like to live in Spain permanently. At the moment we do not speak the language therefore online forums in English language are the first point of reference for us.

I understand that we have to get NIE which is usually applied for in the Local Police or the aliens office.
But some say this takes long time and some others say they had it on the same day including a Residencia. 
I looked at some Legal firms' web sites and almost all of them have somewhat different information. Especially with Residence Card and some older processes still written on their web sites I am confused a little bit.

and the worst thing is the more I read the worse it gets.

Tomorrow I am going to the local police to see whether I can get NIE and Residencia.


----------



## xicoalc

Lanula said:


> We arrived Spain only few days ago and we would like to live in Spain permanently. At the moment we do not speak the language therefore online forums in English language are the first point of reference for us.
> 
> I understand that we have to get NIE which is usually applied for in the Local Police or the aliens office.
> But some say this takes long time and some others say they had it on the same day including a Residencia.
> I looked at some Legal firms' web sites and almost all of them have somewhat different information. Especially with Residence Card and some older processes still written on their web sites I am confused a little bit.
> 
> and the worst thing is the more I read the worse it gets.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to the local police to see whether I can get NIE and Residencia.


Forget what you read, it really is rather simple. It appears that in some areas you can apply for and get NIE & Reseidency at the same time instantly but in my experience, it is usually the case in most areas that your NIE takes a week or two and then once you have this they will issue residency instantly.

DONT pay a lawyer. Both pieces of paper should cost you no more than about 10€ each and it really is simple. Law websites always mae it sound daunting, probably because they want you to pay them upwards of 100€ to do it for you.

You may have read about "residency cards". These were done away with for foreigners a couple of years or so ago. Now you will be issued with a white piece of paper contacining your NIE, and when you apply for residency you will get a green paper certificate which does not expire.

Personally I would prefer a card, acts as ID if the police stop you, but green piece of paper it is!

Once you have them its a good idea to keep the originals safe because replacing them can be a ball ache. Get a notary to make you a certified copy of your residency and keep it with you... you will need it for a lot of things. While your there, worth ggetting a notorised copy of your passport then you dont need that with you either!

Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how you get on!


----------



## xabiaxica

Lanula said:


> We arrived Spain only few days ago and we would like to live in Spain permanently. At the moment we do not speak the language therefore online forums in English language are the first point of reference for us.
> 
> I understand that we have to get NIE which is usually applied for in the Local Police or the aliens office.
> But some say this takes long time and some others say they had it on the same day including a Residencia.
> I looked at some Legal firms' web sites and almost all of them have somewhat different information. Especially with Residence Card and some older processes still written on their web sites I am confused a little bit.
> 
> and the worst thing is the more I read the worse it gets.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to the local police to see whether I can get NIE and Residencia.


the process really is straightforward

you go to the local oficina de extranjeros with the completed forms (which you can download from this forum) http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/2725-spanish-forms-other-useful-links.html & the required supporting documents

if you are living here you do form EX16 which gets you the NIE & residents cert

there is no such thing as a residencia card any more . some people still have the old ones - but you can't get one now



the only thing which varies is that some offices take longer than others to process, and some work an appointment system


----------



## jojo

Lanula said:


> We arrived Spain only few days ago and we would like to live in Spain permanently. At the moment we do not speak the language therefore online forums in English language are the first point of reference for us.
> 
> I understand that we have to get NIE which is usually applied for in the Local Police or the aliens office.
> But some say this takes long time and some others say they had it on the same day including a Residencia.
> I looked at some Legal firms' web sites and almost all of them have somewhat different information. Especially with Residence Card and some older processes still written on their web sites I am confused a little bit.
> 
> and the worst thing is the more I read the worse it gets.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to the local police to see whether I can get NIE and Residencia.



It varies as to where you live as to how long it takes. What you need to do is, as you say, go to the local "NATIONAL" police station/office. There should be a translator there who will tell you what to do, help you fill in the forms - or send you away with the forms and give you an appointment. When you go, its worth taking photocopies as well as originals of your passport and proof of address. There are one or two people on here from Martbella who maybe able to give you a more detailed account of how things are done there!??

Jo xxx


----------



## xicoalc

xabiachica said:


> if you are living here you do form EX16 which gets you the NIE & residents cert


Just to point out, at Benidorm if you take the form for BOTH NIE & Residency the officer will scratch out the residency bit and ONLY issue NIE. However, when you return 2 weeks later to collect you can then fill in the form for residency and gget that instaltly... crazy.. BUT probably to get 2 lots of money out of you!

I went with a friend last week and this same thing happened again... i dont know why... does anyone know if this is the same in other areas?


----------



## Alcalaina

Lanula said:


> We arrived Spain only few days ago and we would like to live in Spain permanently. At the moment we do not speak the language therefore online forums in English language are the first point of reference for us.
> 
> I understand that we have to get NIE which is usually applied for in the Local Police or the aliens office.
> But some say this takes long time and some others say they had it on the same day including a Residencia.
> I looked at some Legal firms' web sites and almost all of them have somewhat different information. Especially with Residence Card and some older processes still written on their web sites I am confused a little bit.
> 
> and the worst thing is the more I read the worse it gets.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to the local police to see whether I can get NIE and Residencia.


The local police (Policia Local) can't issue them. You need to go to the nearest Oficina de Extranjeros - check the address for your nearest one here:
Oficinas Extranjería España

You should be fine to get an NIE number with a temporary address but you may need to wait until you have a permanent address with proof of residence (utility bill etc) to get the residencia certificate.

The lawyers' websites tell you it is much more difficult than it actually is - because they are after your ££££££! And the rules all changed in 2007, so lots of websites still have out-of-date information.


----------



## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> The local police (Policia Local) can't issue them. You need to go to the nearest Oficina de Extranjeros - check the address for your nearest one here:
> Oficinas Extranjería España
> 
> You should be fine to get an NIE number with a temporary address but you may need to wait until you have a permanent address with proof of residence (utility bill etc) to get the residencia certificate.
> 
> The lawyers' websites tell you it is much more difficult than it actually is - because they are after your ££££££! And the rules all changed in 2007, so lots of websites still have out-of-date information.



In our area, NIE and residencia are on the same form. I had to take my rental contract (photocopy for them and the original for them to see) as proof of address

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> In our area, NIE and residencia are on the same form. I had to take my rental contract (photocopy for them and the original for them to see) as proof of address
> 
> Jo xxx


it's a good job they don't insist on utility bills - in over 7 years of renting the only bills we've had in our name is the phone

the landlords always want the bills kept in their name - but we pay them


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> it's a good job they don't insist on utility bills - in over 7 years of renting the only bills we've had in our name is the phone
> 
> the landlords always want the bills kept in their name - but we pay them


Same here - its something to do with not declaring us I think???!!! We havent even got our name on the phone bill at this house?

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Same here - its something to do with not declaring us I think???!!! We havent even got our name on the phone bill at this house?
> 
> Jo xxx


I'm sure that's something to do with it


----------



## gabriele

The last advice was a good one. Otherwise, don't forget to get on with everything with a smile, never lose your temper and much will be won in half the time. Well not with documents like the NIE but with lots of other stuff. Really, it's true. 





xabiachica said:


> the process really is straightforward
> 
> you go to the local oficina de extranjeros with the completed forms (which you can download from this forum) http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/2725-spanish-forms-other-useful-links.html & the required supporting documents
> 
> if you are living here you do form EX16 which gets you the NIE & residents cert
> 
> there is no such thing as a residencia card any more . some people still have the old ones - but you can't get one now
> 
> 
> 
> the only thing which varies is that some offices take longer than others to process, and some work an appointment system


----------



## Lanula

Firstly thanks to everyone who posted information regarding NIE and Residencia processes. Today we had a chance to go to the Aliens Office which is at the main police station in Marbella. There were about 15 people waiting outside and it took 20 minutes to talk to someone.

As we went there just past 11 am we were only given information and forms about our application process. There was a lady who spoke some English to explain us what we needed to do. She was very friendly and tried to answer all the questions we asked.

We were given one form for registration, another for 10 € payments. We are expected to have both our passports and photocopies. The lady told us that our baby daughter also needs to be present during the application. They did not ask for any kind of address related documents. 

If we understood the lady correctly she will be giving each of us (including our 20 months old baby) a green A4 size letter stating our residency in Spain which will also have our NIE number. I asked her how long this may take and she replied "in five minutes"

As soon as we complete the rental agreement with the landlord we will apply for our Residencia so that our long term address is in their system.


----------



## xabiaxica

Lanula said:


> Firstly thanks to everyone who posted information regarding NIE and Residencia processes. Today we had a chance to go to the Aliens Office which is at the main police station in Marbella. There were about 15 people waiting outside and it took 20 minutes to talk to someone.
> 
> As we went there just past 11 am we were only given information and forms about our application process. There was a lady who spoke some English to explain us what we needed to do. She was very friendly and tried to answer all the questions we asked.
> 
> We were given one form for registration, another for 10 € payments. We are expected to have both our passports and photocopies. The lady told us that our baby daughter also needs to be present during the application. They did not ask for any kind of address related documents.
> 
> If we understood the lady correctly she will be giving each of us (including our 20 months old baby) a green A4 size letter stating our residency in Spain which will also have our NIE number. I asked her how long this may take and she replied "in five minutes"
> 
> As soon as we complete the rental agreement with the landlord we will apply for our Residencia so that our long term address is in their system.


well done!!


that green letter is your 'residencia'


----------



## Lanula

*Update on application process in Marbella*

This morning we went to the Aliens Office at the main Police Station in Marbella. At 8.25 The police and a civil officer were giving out numbers to the people outside. I guess there were about fifty people already waiting. Both officers spoke English and first they gave us pink tickets with numbers on them and then told us to go to the bank and make the payment of 10 € each.

I recommend to get the bank payment done a day before your application.

Around 10 a.m we were accepted inside and after another 45 minutes of waiting a lady took our documents. (Application form, payment form, copies and originals of the passports. For our baby we also needed to give the UK birth certificate and its photocopy.) They did not ask any address related document. After she checked our documents she gave the originals back and told us to wait.

It took them half an hour to finish the process. At the end of our wait we were given the Green A4 size letter indicating our residencia and NIE numbers. Our daughter was given her own.

We found the process stressful purely because we did not speak Spanish however the people we dealt with were very friendly.

Now I realize in our green letters our address is written slightly different, I guess I need to go to the office again soon.

But thanks to everyone who contributed information on this website...it is a great source for help.


----------



## sonitaw

*Getting an NIE as an American spouse of an EU national*

Wrote this to purge myself of the stress of the onerous process, god I wish someone had done this before I started!!!

Applying for Residency in Spain as a non-EU Spouse (specific for Americans, but maybe useful for others):

You did it, you and your spouse moved to Spain. Now what? Well you are in luck if you have a residency card someplace else in the EU, I have no clue what that process is, but I have heard it is easier. However, if you are like me, and were married in the states then brace yourself for a paperwork roller coaster. I had a lot of help from other people I know who are married to EU citizens. Here are some tips to help you along. Oh it is also worth mentioning that I read that they no longer issue visas for spouses in Spain you have to go through the residency process. This information is recent as of January 2011.

The absolute first thing you have to do is register your marriage with the EU country where your spouse is from. Where you do this (and how long it takes) varies per country and it cannot be done at an embassy it has to be sent to the actual county. This will require your spouse’s birth certificate, your birth certificate with and Apostil stamp, and copies of both your passports. You also have to fill out an official request of course. If you are American like I am, the Apostil stamp can only be issued by the state that created the document. So if you live in Ohio but were born in Florida, it has to come from Florida, wherever the Secretary of State is located in that state. In the case of the Netherlands, the copies of the birth certificates cannot be older than 6 months. Most EU countries issue marriage certificated that are already in multiple languages, if yours is not, you have to have it translated.

Also at the top of the list is registering you and your spouse with City Hall (Empadronamiento). Where you need to go depends on the district you live in. For this you have to have:
Your lease (in Spanish)
If you have children you need an Apostilled copy of their birth certificate (and pray that they don’t ask that it is translated, they just need something saying you are the child’s parents). 
Your passports
Spouse’s NIE

They should be able to print the document for you right then and there. Once you have the registrations, make several copies of this you need at least 3, 2 for the government and 1 for yourself.

Around the same time go onto www .mpr.es Ministerio de la Presidencia - MPR.es :: Portada[/url] and make an appointment with “Servicio de Cita Previa” you will need to select “RESIDENCE PERMIT FOR RELATIVES OF EU NATIONALS” (tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión)

You will go to the Oficina de Extranjeros located at: MURCIA 42 BARCELONA 08027
The appointment is usually made 3-4 weeks out, you probably won’t have your marriage certificate but you can take all of your other documents with you and get the application process rolling. Be prepared to wait for an hour and for the place to be swamped. 

The documents you should have are:
Both passports (obviously)
Your spouse’s NIE document (no longer a card), plus copy
Work contract if you have it (just in case)
A completed EX16 form, Download form EX 16
2 copies of both you and your spouse’s passports
The marriage certificate from your EU spouse’s country (apparently this cannot be older than 3 months)
A copy of both of your registrations with city hall (Empadronamientos)
Three passport-sized photographs in color.

You will leave with a paper listing the missing documents needed for your application (hopefully none). If you are missing some of the documents you can return to the Oficina de Extranjeros any time once you have them in order. You don’t need an appointment but be prepared to wait at least a half hour. The office is open 9-5.

After this visit, they will issue you a letter saying your application is complete and you will have to go to the next step (no it isn’t picking up your residency card, that would make too much sense), which is going to the Police Station 2 weeks after all your documents are in. It is called the Comisaria de Barcelona-Balmes, located on the corner of Calle Guadalajara and Calle Bosch. You will know you are there because there will be a bunch of other immigrants wandering around looking confused. It is located on a really small insignificant side street, but don’t fear you are in the right place!

You will need:
The letter from the Oficina de Extranjeros
3 recent passport sized pictures
Your registration with City Hall
As always be prepared to wait, the police at the guard post will direct you where to go. Don’t let them send you around the corner, you have to be there. Once you get a live person, it goes quickly. They give you a slip to take to a different office where you will pick up your actual card. I was confused, and went there right away, but you can’t pick up the actual card until one month after the Comisaria grants it. They also give you a form to take to your bank where you need to transfer 10 Euro to the Police. This is called a Modelo 790, and I have seen it mentioned elsewhere saying you should complete it before going. Unfortunately there is no way for you to get this form in advance because it is a carbon copy. Oh and another joyous tidbit about this form, all of the banks within blocks of the Comisaria only process these forms between 9 and 10:30. Which is next to impossible to get done due to the long wait at the station. The good news is that you have a month to make the transfer before you have to go pick up your card. 

The office where your card is located is:
Calle Mallorca 213. The wait is short once you get there… 
Finally, hop on one foot, pat your tummy clockwise, while holding your nose, and counting backwards from 100…..


----------



## karunaji

*Residency+ UK basic pension*



Liz said:


> The cost has now increased to €6.80


I cannot recall what the cost was last year, but now you do need a photo - and when mine was processed in Baza it only took a couple of hours.

I do have a question :confused2:- how does having residency affect one's qualification for the UK basic pension?


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## xabiaxica

karunaji said:


> I cannot recall what the cost was last year, but now you do need a photo - and when mine was processed in Baza it only took a couple of hours.
> 
> I do have a question :confused2:- how does having residency affect one's qualification for the UK basic pension?


it doesn't affect your basic pension at all

there has recently been a discussion an this very subject if you have a little search


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## karunaji

xabiachica said:


> it doesn't affect your basic pension at all
> 
> there has recently been a discussion an this very subject if you have a little search


hi - thank you for your quick reply. I have become "jubilado" this february - with nothing to "jubilate" about. During the Norman Tebitt days, I went off to eastern europe to teach - rather than be unemployed in the UK- (being bi-lingual). Even though over 18 yrs 50% of my monthly salary was taken by the various state departments, I really would not get anything that would be liveable on. Many people having the full 40yrs work record literally can't make ends meet. So that really is a dead end. (for many it is a choice between eating or paying bills).

I have kept a UK address (at friends). I may be able to get pension credits - but the whole experience is a bit of a maze and haze for me.

So any sites you could refer me to which I could explore- or advice, I'd much appreciate
:juggle:
many thanks


----------



## country boy

karunaji said:


> hi - thank you for your quick reply. I have become "jubilado" this february - with nothing to "jubilate" about. During the Norman Tebitt days, I went off to eastern europe to teach - rather than be unemployed in the UK- (being bi-lingual). Even though over 18 yrs 50% of my monthly salary was taken by the various state departments, I really would not get anything that would be liveable on. Many people having the full 40yrs work record literally can't make ends meet. So that really is a dead end. (for many it is a choice between eating or paying bills).
> 
> I have kept a UK address (at friends). I may be able to get pension credits - but the whole experience is a bit of a maze and haze for me.
> 
> So any sites you could refer me to which I could explore- or advice, I'd much appreciate
> :juggle:
> many thanks


DWPinspain are a member on this forum, why not start there?


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## Trubrit

Just an update regarding NIE in Madrid. Yesterday my daughter went for her NIE appointment which had been booked since October. As she had to queue, even though her appointment was 9am, I thought that I would try my luck at getting mine even though my appointment is June 30th. Well after waiting a couple of hours my number came up so I sheepishly went to the clerk but the clerk immediately said that you can no longer go "on spec" for your NIE as they are far too busy. My daughter came away with her NIE and here is the breakdown as of yesterday: The cost of 10e must be paid into any bank beforehand on form 790 and the receipt taken with you together with form ex16 plus the clerk also said that you must register at your social security office beforehand. No photographs are needed, just a photocopy of the picture page of your passport. The NIE is just a green A4 sheet of paper. Hope this helps


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## baldilocks

Trubrit said:


> Just an update regarding NIE in Madrid. Yesterday my daughter went for her NIE appointment which had been booked since October. As she had to queue, even though her appointment was 9am, I thought that I would try my luck at getting mine even though my appointment is June 30th. Well after waiting a couple of hours my number came up so I sheepishly went to the clerk but the clerk immediately said that you can no longer go "on spec" for your NIE as they are far too busy. My daughter came away with her NIE and here is the breakdown as of yesterday: The cost of 10e must be paid into any bank beforehand on form 790 and the receipt taken with you together with form ex16 plus the clerk also said that you must register at your social security office beforehand. No photographs are needed, just a photocopy of the picture page of your passport. The NIE is just a green A4 sheet of paper. Hope this helps


If, however, you are not an EU citizen you will get an Identity card instead of the green sheet.


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## jojo

Trubrit said:


> The NIE is just a green A4 sheet of paper. Hope this helps


And guard that piece of paper with your life, getting a replacement is not easy!!!

Jo xxx


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## DunWorkin

*My experience in Alicante*

Just to report back on my experience today when getting our residencia certificate.
Firstly I must point out that I have mobility problems and cannot stand for very long or walk too far.

We have been living here since 2004 and had a residencia card which recently expired. We have had our NIE since we bought our house in 2003.

Today we went to the Foreigners' Office in Alicante to get our new residencia certificate. We decided to do this through our local Gestor who we have used before for other things.

The system in Alicante is that you need to arrive before they open at 9am and get a ticket. They only issue 30 tickets a day so if you arrive late you will probably be unlucky. You do not have to queue but you sit in a waiting room.

We arrived with our Gestor at about 8.45 but she had arranged for her colleague to be there earlier and get tickets for the 3 people who were re-registering today through them.

While we waited the Gestor went to the bank and paid our money so we did not have to do that.

They started calling numbers just after 9am. There was only one desk active. Our numbers were 7, 8 and 9. We went in about 9.15 and were out by 9.30.

All we needed was the completed form (EX16), our passports and our expired residencia cards (which they kept).

They said the certificates will be ready Thursday afternoon. Our Gestor is going to collect them and we will be able to pick them up from her office in Campello.

I thought I would report back on what happened with us and to say that, for us, it was well worth using the services of the Gestor. The cost was €66 each which includes the cost of the certificate and for her driving us to Alicante and dropping us outside the offices while she went to park.

If anyone has any questions I would be happy to answer them.


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## baldilocks

jojo said:


> And guard that piece of paper with your life, getting a replacement is not easy!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Take a colour photocopy and print off several copies - they are usually accepted as if they are the real thing and if it is a good copy, they are very difficult to tell apart.


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## baldilocks

DunWorkin said:


> They said the certificates will be ready Thursday afternoon. Our Gestor is going to collect them and we will be able to pick them up from her office in Campello.


In Jaén, if you come in from out of the city, (we are about 70km away by road) they will usually do anything like that on the day and you just go back about 1.30 to collect but every foreigners' office is different.


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## jojo

baldilocks said:


> Take a colour photocopy and print off several copies - they are usually accepted as if they are the real thing and if it is a good copy, they are very difficult to tell apart.


What a brilliant idea :clap2::clap2::clap2:

Thank you. I'll get OH on to it straight away!

Jo xx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> What a brilliant idea :clap2::clap2::clap2:
> 
> Thank you. I'll get OH on to it straight away!
> 
> Jo xx


we have scanned everything into the computer too


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## gabriele

To have straight forward coloured photocopies done sounds like an excellent idea. 

Once, a photo of a couple of my passport pages side by side was required for something. It had to be done by a photographer.

I then discovered that everybody seems to accept such a photo of my passport. No more worries that it may get lost.


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## Happyexpat

Actually there are a few questions here and because Spain has regional government centres it can vary.
Some things are standard. To buy a car you need a NIE, a National identification number, and a padron which says where you live. You do NOT need residencia.

Residencia should be obtained if you intend to live in Spain for more than 6 months in the year. When it was the card it was very useful now its a grotty bit of paper which is not any use at all. If you have Brit car register it in Spain before you get your residencia as the import tax is waived. If you intend to keep a car on Brit plates then it must be road legal and can only be here for 6 months. Its an important point to note that most UK insurance will only cover 30 to 90 days maximum abroad and the Traffico via their control room can now link across to Swansea.....
Finally don't get caught out, many expats offer a docs service and you pay through the nose. We wanted to import our Goldwing and were quoted 1300 euros inc tax. They wanted 200 euros for Nie etc. We did it all ourselves in our broken Spanish, it was complicated and involved a lot of walking around Alicante but the costs were in total less than 50 euros for our docs and 470 for bike inc taxes. The Spanish officials were very helpful but be prepared for bucket loads of paperwork stamped and counter stamped.
Hope this helps but please remember the above info is based on the Valencia region and it may vary in other places.


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## baldilocks

Once you have a Spanish driving licence, you can usually use that for ID when paying by card.


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## Happyexpat

Usually but Media markt and some other big retailers have notices up that they won't accept driving licences......I use my health card and they accept that and it hasn't got a photo. It doesn't make any sense but there it is!

On this subject has anybody else heard or can confirm the rumour that the ID cards are being brought back, I hope so they were really useful?


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## xicoalc

Happyexpat said:


> If you have Brit car register it in Spain before you get your residencia as the import tax is waived.


You cant register the brit car on spanish plates without residencia and padron. BUT to waive import tax it needs to be done within a period of going onto padron for first time (3 or 6 months), but as I said, without residence you cant get pardon!


----------



## xicoalc

Happyexpat said:


> Usually but Media markt and some other big retailers have notices up that they won't accept driving licences......I use my health card and they accept that and it hasn't got a photo. It doesn't make any sense but there it is!
> 
> On this subject has anybody else heard or can confirm the rumour that the ID cards are being brought back, I hope so they were really useful?


I agree, I wish I could have an ID card. My Spanish partner has his DNI card and its used for everything... including travel to the UK!

As for paying in big stores... the only one thing I have yet to do is change my driving licence to a Spanish one BUT I use my brit licence as ID in all stores including Media Markt where I made a purchase of almost 2000€ recently using that as ID!


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## Happyexpat

There doesn't seem to be any consistency in the way stores operate. The Media Markt in Alicante up to my last visit two weeks ago wouldn't accept d/l's.
As for the padron etc, my apology you are right, you now cannot get a padron without a residencia. Many people didn't bother with the padron so I guess that is why they have altered it. Makes life even more complicated..... As for cars you need a Padron to buy a Spanish one so how does that work for holiday homes where people don't want residencia?


----------



## xicoalc

Happyexpat said:


> There doesn't seem to be any consistency in the way stores operate. The Media Markt in Alicante up to my last visit two weeks ago wouldn't accept d/l's.
> As for the padron etc, my apology you are right, you now cannot get a padron without a residencia. Many people didn't bother with the padron so I guess that is why they have altered it. Makes life even more complicated..... As for cars you need a Padron to buy a Spanish one so how does that work for holiday homes where people don't want residencia?


Actually... i THINK, to buy you just need NIE! I bought a new moto last year from a dealer and he just asked for my NIE 

I think it depends on the mood of the man in trafico!


----------



## Alcalaina

Happyexpat said:


> As for the padron etc, my apology you are right, you now cannot get a padron without a residencia. Many people didn't bother with the padron so I guess that is why they have altered it. Makes life even more complicated..... As for cars you need a Padron to buy a Spanish one so how does that work for holiday homes where people don't want residencia?


Er - where I live, you _can_ get a padron without a certificado de residencia. All you need is proof of residence and an NIE. Or is that what you meant?


----------



## Alcalaina

steve_in_spain said:


> You cant register the brit car on spanish plates without residencia and padron. BUT to waive import tax it needs to be done within a period of going onto padron for first time (3 or 6 months), but as I said, without residence you cant get *pardon!*


_Pardon_? Is you spellchecker being unhelpful again?


----------



## xicoalc

Alcalaina said:


> Er - where I live, you _can_ get a padron without a certificado de residencia. All you need is proof of residence and an NIE. Or is that what you meant?


I moved recently, had to take green NIE (specifically the "green" one (which is residencia) and my rental contract. But like everything I guess areas vary. Ajuntamiente´s get money for every name on padron so I think its feasable that if someone has an NIE, proof of address they will be happy to sign them on!


----------



## xicoalc

Alcalaina said:


> _Pardon_? Is you spellchecker being unhelpful again?


pardon? jajajaja

you know what i meant! 



My spelling on here is terrible, I type too fast for my own abilities, but the way I view it is that its brain training for everyone else, to try to work out what I am saying.


----------



## baldilocks

steve_in_spain said:


> pardon? jajajaja
> 
> you know what i meant!
> 
> 
> 
> My spelling on here is terrible, I type too fast for my own abilities, but the way I view it is that its brain training for everyone else, to try to work out what I am saying.


I was quite happy with "pardon" it reflects the fact that, often, residents get better treatment (e.g. a "pardon" for minor misdemeanours) than non-residents!


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## xicoalc

baldilocks said:


> i was quite happy with "pardon" it reflects the fact that, often, residents get better treatment (e.g. A "pardon" for minor misdemeanours) than non-residents!


:d:d:d


----------



## Happyexpat

And the garage. We brought a ford from the local ford garage, no padron, no car....I think it also depends on the region! Like I said earlier things can get real confusing out here, especially for us. We spend some time each month in Almeria, Junta Andalucia but most of the time in Alicante, Valencia. Boy do they do things differently!


----------



## Patri43

I have recently moved back to Spain from UK with my Scottish boyfriend and we are both now registered on the padron. He still needs to complete the residency requirement and to gain N.I.E

We have the EX-16 form as well as the payment slip for the bank (fee is now 10Euro!). We were originally told at the police station that we needed to pay the fee at bank before they would process the EX-16 form, but the bank said we need to process the EX-16 form, get a N.I.E and only then would they accept the fee. So it looks like we have to go back (and queue again) to the police station. Can anyone confirm the correct process, as it looks like the people who administer the process do not know!


----------



## xicoalc

Patri43 said:


> I have recently moved back to Spain from UK with my Scottish boyfriend and we are both now registered on the padron. He still needs to complete the residency requirement and to gain N.I.E
> 
> We have the EX-16 form as well as the payment slip for the bank (fee is now 10Euro!). We were originally told at the police station that we needed to pay the fee at bank before they would process the EX-16 form, but the bank said we need to process the EX-16 form, get a N.I.E and only then would they accept the fee. So it looks like we have to go back (and queue again) to the police station. Can anyone confirm the correct process, as it looks like the people who administer the process do not know!


You got Padron with no NIE? Thats unusual!

You usually take the completed bank payment form (a carbon copy type paper, available from the police) to the bank and pay. They issue a reciept which you then take to the police with the NIE application form and they then process the application. Thats certainly how it works here!


----------



## Patri43

Thanks Steve,

Yeah we originally visited the police station, who directed us to Empadronamiento. We have now done this and received the appropriate documentation.

My boyfriend still requires NIE, but was told at the bank it is impossible to process payment without first having NIE (to be fair the paperwork does have a box that asks for NIE, beside name, address etc). However this is in conflict with what originally told at police station and I am worried that we will visit the police station and be told the same thing and therefore face stalemate!


----------



## xicoalc

Patri43 said:


> Thanks Steve,
> 
> Yeah we originally visited the police station, who directed us to Empadronamiento. We have now done this and received the appropriate documentation.
> 
> My boyfriend still requires NIE, but was told at the bank it is impossible to process payment without first having NIE (to be fair the paperwork does have a box that asks for NIE, beside name, address etc). However this is in conflict with what originally told at police station and I am worried that we will visit the police station and be told the same thing and therefore face stalemate!


Do you have the form to apply for residencia? Once you have NIE you THEN apply for residencia (in some areas they do both at once), i forget the form codes but the one for only NIE does not ask for NIE obviously.

I think you may be asking for residencia (taking the wrong form to the bank). If its the bank payment form then you simply put your passport number in the box. Thats what I have done recently with a few people I took


----------



## Patri43

The form has multiple options but was given to us with the appropriate box already ticked. This is for 'Certificado de Registro/Tarjeta Residencia'.

Apologies but I misread the form, it asks for NIF not NIE, obviously NIF is for Spanish nationals and I think it is simply there due to the multiple possible uses of the form and is not applicable for his application.


----------



## SueBrown

Patri43 said:


> I have recently moved back to Spain from UK with my Scottish boyfriend and we are both now registered on the padron. He still needs to complete the residency requirement and to gain N.I.E
> 
> We have the EX-16 form as well as the payment slip for the bank (fee is now 10Euro!). We were originally told at the police station that we needed to pay the fee at bank before they would process the EX-16 form, but the bank said we need to process the EX-16 form, get a N.I.E and only then would they accept the fee. So it looks like we have to go back (and queue again) to the police station. Can anyone confirm the correct process, as it looks like the people who administer the process do not know!


Both are right and both are wrong! You take the completed form to the immigration staff at the police station, they check it and your evidence (passport , birth certificate etc) and give you a piece of paper to take to the bank, you go there, pay your fee and then go back to the police station, show them your receipt and they issue you with the NIE, simples?


----------



## baldilocks

SueBrown said:


> Both are right and both are wrong! You take the completed form to the immigration staff at the police station, they check it and your evidence (passport , birth certificate etc) and give you a piece of paper to take to the bank, you go there, pay your fee and then go back to the police station, show them your receipt and they issue you with the NIE, simples?


That is the way it is in Jaén (except that it is not at the police station but at the Oficina de Extranjeros in the Government building) but as somebody recently commented - everywhere is different and even within the same office not all the staff sing from the same hymn book.


----------



## xicoalc

SueBrown said:


> Both are right and both are wrong! You take the completed form to the immigration staff at the police station, they check it and your evidence (passport , birth certificate etc) and give you a piece of paper to take to the bank, you go there, pay your fee and then go back to the police station, show them your receipt and they issue you with the NIE, simples?


Thats pretty much what I said. I will point out that in some areas I have heard people say they get their NIE there and then. In other areas (mine included) it takes two weeks and you are given a form to go and collect it.

Once you have NIE you can then apply (and pay again) for residency. Again I have heard in some areas that they can do both in one go but in my area they dont! So two trips to the bank.


----------



## xicoalc

baldilocks said:


> That is the way it is in Jaén but as somebody recently commented - everywhere is different and even within the same office not all the staff sing from the same hymn book.


Absolutely right Baldilocks.... like many things in Spain, the rules seem to depend on the person doing the job! When i first went along to get mine, I had filled in the wrong form (downloaded it) and it was a form for NIE & Residency. The nice policeman simply scratched out some things on the form, and ammended it, and processed it. My friend who was with me obtaining one also had the same form and the official attending to him sent him away with a new form and told him to come again later!

And then theres trafico.... lets not go there!


----------



## jojo

SueBrown said:


> Both are right and both are wrong! You take the completed form to the immigration staff at the police station, they check it and your evidence (passport , birth certificate etc) and give you a piece of paper to take to the bank, you go there, pay your fee and then go back to the police station, show them your receipt and they issue you with the NIE, simples?



Sometimes, you have to go there and they will then make an appointment for you to return to register. Sometimes after that, you have to go back after a week or so to pick up your number/certificate. Some areas, I believe also insist on you having two passport sized photos. 

MY TOP TIP: Take photo copies with you of everything - EVERYTHING - take more than one photocopy of everything!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## baldilocks

jojo said:


> Sometimes, you have to go there and they will then make an appointment for you to return to register. Sometimes after that, you have to go back after a week or so to pick up your number/certificate. Some areas, I believe also insist on you having two passport sized photos.
> 
> MY TOP TIP: Take photo copies with you of everything - EVERYTHING - take more than one photocopy of everything!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


but make sure that you mark on the back which is the original - our colour copies are almost indistinguishable


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> MY TOP TIP: Take photo copies with you of everything - EVERYTHING - take more than one photocopy of everything!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


VERY good tip Jo... and do the same every time you go anywhere official. Take all your papers and photocopies. The daft thing is, then you have them they never ask to see them, but go without them and your guaranteed to get thrown out!


----------



## xicoalc

baldilocks said:


> but make sure that you mark on the back which is the original - our colour copies are almost indistinguishable


This can have its advantages.... when I first moved here I asked the consulate to give me a certified photocopy of my passport to carry round (wish I had used a notary not because its about 1/10th of the price). Anyway... the B&W photocopy with the blue stamp from the consulate photocipies in colour perfectly, its impossible without a forensic examination to know its a copy... so now i keep the original safe at home and a photocopy in my wallet... and when its tatty, copy it again  happy days!


----------



## nelsonRFC82

Hi (Patri's boyfriend here), thanks again all for the advice. Have now visited a different bank and this time they accepted payment so have the receipt to go back to the police on Friday and hopefully all will be sorted (fingers are crossed anyway)!


----------



## JoCatalunya

In our local town when you wish to get an NIE certificate etc, you have to go to the police station to get an appointment to go to another office who give you another appointment for another office where you fill in a form to take back to the police station to get it stamped then back to the second office for it to be processed. 
You then pick it up from a fourth office. 

Confused.com, you will be......


----------



## jojo

JoCatalunya said:


> In our local town when you wish to get an NIE certificate etc, you have to go to the police station to get an appointment to go to another office who give you another appointment for another office where you fill in a form to take back to the police station to get it stamped then back to the second office for it to be processed.
> You then pick it up from a fourth office.
> 
> Confused.com, you will be......


Dont forget you must take a form to the bank and pay, so that they can stamp it!!

Jo xxx


----------



## JoCatalunya

jojo said:


> Dont forget you must take a form to the bank and pay, so that they can stamp it!!
> 
> Jo xxx



You're right, now I wonder how that slipped my mind, silly me.


----------



## MacRov

Thank god our rep is helping us with all that when we arrive in July, that would do my nut in. Will take a while to get used to how things are done in Spain haha


----------



## jojo

MacRov said:


> Thank god our rep is helping us with all that when we arrive in July, that would do my nut in. Will take a while to get used to how things are done in Spain haha


 Photocopies of everything and patience!

Jo xxx


----------



## MacRov

Photocopies is easy.....


----------



## JoCatalunya

jojo said:


> Photocopies of everything and patience!
> 
> Jo xxx


And learn to accept that coffee takes precedence to actually doing the job they are paid to do.


----------



## jojo

MacRov said:


> Photocopies is easy.....


 Yes, but when you finally get your appointment, get to the desk and you havent got just one of them, you get sent away to make a new appointment!! There was a "you tube" thing on here recently and that was sooooooooo how it is lol!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## MacRov

the scanner/printer will be getting stocked up on ink n packed in the car


----------



## JoCatalunya

MacRov said:


> the scanner/printer will be getting stocked up on ink n packed in the car


In the boot, otherwise you might get back to your car and find it broken into, some folk just love to deprive decent hardworking folk of their property.


----------



## MacRov

JoCatalunya said:


> In the boot, otherwise you might get back to your car and find it broken into, some folk just love to deprive decent hardworking folk of their property.



Very true, right better get it back on topic a bit. 
Apparently we'll be going to Cartagena to get our NIE's, anyone had to do it there ? any issues ?


----------



## mbarbeito

Stravinsky said:


> As from roughly March last year (2007) it is now a legal requirement for you in Spain to have a residency certificate. Before that date it was not necessary, but the EU pushed Spain into a corner and this is the way they reacted.
> 
> So ..... as soon as you are resident in this country you need to apply, usually to your local Police station, for said certificate within 90 days
> 
> You need to complete Form EX 16 and then queue normally for a very long time. After the form is accepted they will give you a payment slip which you take to the nearest bank. Take the slip back to the Police station and they will issue you with the certificate. The cost is about €6.80, and you dont need photographs. Take your passport and you padron certificate.



Hello...is that all you need to do to get a resident card? is that what you are referring to? I am kind of confused between NIE, Residency Card and Registration at City Hall (darse el Alta en el Padron Municipal).

Any info you can provide would be very helpful to me.
Thank you!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mbarbeito said:


> Hello...is that all you need to do to get a resident card? is that what you are referring to? I am kind of confused between NIE, Residency Card and Registration at City Hall (darse el Alta en el Padron Municipal).
> 
> Any info you can provide would be very helpful to me.
> Thank you!


There is no longer a residency card. You have to sign on to get an NIE number and you also have to sign on the Padron. See post 68 for an explanation of the padron


----------



## Happyexpat

You are not the only one who is confused, join the growing number of expats from many countries! As far as I understand, it at the moment in the Valencia region, you need to get your NIE after which you can obtain Residencia, followed by your padron. The key to it all is the NIE.
While I agree with Stravinsky on the legal requirement for the Residencia it is a complete and utter waste of the paper it is produced on. The first thing anybody asks for, if you show it, is a copy of your passport or SIP card, the residencia is just pushed aside. We were much better off with the residencia card which everybody accepted as ID. Rumour has it that some idiot out of the UK living in Malaga or Marbella said the residencia card infringed his / her human rights so Spain was forced to abandon them in favour of this useless bit of paper. All I can say to this "person" is thanks a lot for nothing so please leave me out of it next time you get a "good" idea.


----------



## xabiaxica

mbarbeito said:


> Hello...is that all you need to do to get a resident card? is that what you are referring to? I am kind of confused between NIE, Residency Card and Registration at City Hall (darse el Alta en el Padron Municipal).
> 
> Any info you can provide would be very helpful to me.
> Thank you!


it depends where you're from

non-EU citizens do get a resident's card - EU citizens don't - but it's a sort of national register of foreigners

you can have a NIE whether or not you live here

the padrón is a local register of everyone - foreigners & Spanish nationals


----------



## mbarbeito

Thanks to both...I have just done the City Hall Registtration (me di de Alta en el Ayuntamiento), but I still need a NIE...what are valid reason to obtain a NIE? Under what circumstances are they granted. I was told (by the lady behind the counter at the Foreigners Affair Office) that renting an apt long term was a valid reason so I submitted my application like that. Two days later we went back to sumbit my boyfriend's and the same lady told us that renting an apt was not a good reason - hahahahha!!!! I am waiting to see if mine by any chance and by luck got approved but she wouldn't accept my boyfriend's!!!

Any info on the NIE would helpful ) Thanks again for your prompt responses.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mbarbeito said:


> Thanks to both...I have just done the City Hall Registtration (me di de Alta en el Ayuntamiento), but I still need a NIE...what are valid reason to obtain a NIE? Under what circumstances are they granted. I was told (by the lady behind the counter at the Foreigners Affair Office) that renting an apt long term was a valid reason so I submitted my application like that. Two days later we went back to sumbit my boyfriend's and the same lady told us that renting an apt was not a good reason - hahahahha!!!! I am waiting to see if mine by any chance and by luck got approved but she wouldn't accept my boyfriend's!!!
> 
> Any info on the NIE would helpful ) Thanks again for your prompt responses.


You have to have a valid reason to apply for one??

I would have thought living in Spain would have done it.


----------



## mbarbeito

i was told by friend that it was a breeze to get it but that has not been my experience....I am not giving up though....I will get it one way or another and will report back to you guys...in the meantime if anyone knows anything, please let me know )
Thanks!


----------



## baldilocks

It has always been my understanding that if you wish to engage in financial transactions such as buying or renting property or buying a car, then you need an NIE. 

We had no difficulty in getting ours well before we found the house we wanted to buy but we had the assistance of somebody who had done it before. 

My mother-in-law who is a US citizen with residence in UK was issued with her NIE when she got her residency approved in Spain.

Maybe you should engage a gestor to assist you, it can often be a little money well-spent and will certainly save you a lot of time sitting around, since the gestor will be known to the officials and will likely get in and get things done while you and others would have just been sitting there awaiting your turn.


----------



## mbarbeito

thank you!!!! the reason I need the NIE is so that we can import our furniture and just today the moving company has gotten involved. I am sure they deal with this often. I am hoping they have contacts in these office who can at least tell me exactly what I need to do.

Thank you for all the information and responses


----------



## xabiaxica

mbarbeito said:


> thank you!!!! the reason I need the NIE is so that we can import our furniture and just today the moving company has gotten involved. I am sure they deal with this often. I am hoping they have contacts in these office who can at least tell me exactly what I need to do.
> 
> Thank you for all the information and responses


I have to admit to being confused - where are you from???


it really is just a case of filling in the form, taking it to the relevant office with all the photocopies that it states you need on the form, pay your money & get your NIE!!

yes, in some places you have to queue for hours or make an appointment to go back another time - but I've never heard of anyone being refused............


----------



## mbarbeito

xabiachica said:


> I have to admit to being confused - where are you from???
> 
> 
> it really is just a case of filling in the form, taking it to the relevant office with all the photocopies that it states you need on the form, pay your money & get your NIE!!
> 
> yes, in some places you have to queue for hours or make an appointment to go back another time - but I've never heard of anyone being refused............


I know!!! I am also confused everyone said it was so easy and the lady at the Police Station/Brigada Provincial de Extranjeria y Frontera said that they only grant NIE to people who are buying/selling/investing. Not just to anyone...

I filled out the form, made copies of everything, she even accepted my application. There was not even a line...it was so easy, I was very encouraged....anyway, i will see what happens and I will let you know maybe I come out with "new and improved" information...

thanks for your help!


----------



## baldilocks

So much depends on which Oficina de Extranjeros you go to as well as which person you see. It is really quite remarkable how many different songs you hear when they are all supposed to be singing from the same songsheet!


----------



## xabiaxica

mbarbeito said:


> I know!!! I am also confused everyone said it was so easy and the lady at the Police Station/Brigada Provincial de Extranjeria y Frontera said that they only grant NIE to people who are buying/selling/investing. Not just to anyone...
> 
> I filled out the form, made copies of everything, she even accepted my application. There was not even a line...it was so easy, I was very encouraged....anyway, i will see what happens and I will let you know maybe I come out with "new and improved" information...
> 
> thanks for your help!


can you not just sign the residents list?

they'll give you a NIE number then.........................


----------



## Happyexpat

We used an agent to get ours, it seemed the simplest way. As I understand the criteria is that you need an address in Spain, could be a friends, solicitor, or the place you are buying but that is the key, certainly if you are from an EEC country.
As everybody has already said it depends on who you see, what mood they are in and where it is. There just doesn't seem to be one set of rules put into practice even though there is only one set ofrules.


----------



## mbarbeito

baldilocks said:


> So much depends on which Oficina de Extranjeros you go to as well as which person you see. It is really quite remarkable how many different songs you hear when they are all supposed to be singing from the same songsheet!


I figured as much...I will get my NIE dont you worry  however I need to get it....hahaha!! I see what you mean by being told different things at different offices...I got told tow different things by the same person - hahahah!!!

thanks for your help...for sure will keep you posted :clap2:


----------



## piglet2spain

My husband and I both have NIA certs. Although we are about 9 months from living in Spain.
Now my daughter is thinking of coming with us. Will she also need and NIA or can she just apply for residency if she does come?


----------



## Happyexpat

Simple answer, everybody should have a NIE and should, when you live here, be listed on the Padron


----------



## thrax

But don´t forget there are two types of NIE certificate; one is on white paper and for non-residents and the other is on green paper and for residents. Try and get the one on green paper as certain things, such as clinics, won´t sign you up without it. Then again, there are other clinics who will, but the green version is best. And if you get the other version you will have to pay again for the green one but keep the same number. Phew


----------



## Happyexpat

Now that has confused me. We have a white NIE which is accepted everywhere but the green useless residencia paper which is treated with scorn! I have never seen a green NIE and we applied for ours as future residents. Mind you that was 10 years ago and things change rapidly here.....


----------



## thrax

Happyexpat said:


> Now that has confused me. We have a white NIE which is accepted everywhere but the green useless residencia paper which is treated with scorn! I have never seen a green NIE and we applied for ours as future residents. Mind you that was 10 years ago and things change rapidly here.....


The green one was introduced a couple of years ago. I´ll post the important bit from it when I can find mine lol


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Time for some pictures. This is what you need/ must have/ will get eventually










BELOW is the card which is no longer issued. If you have one, when it expires you will be given the above green certificate which never runs out


----------



## xabiaxica

yes - the difference is that the white NIE is for non-residents & the green onefor residents

anyone living anywhere in the world can get a white NIE- if they need one

only a resident can get a green one


----------



## almendros

Just to clarify to avoid confusion:-

There is only one NIE certificate and that is the white one.

The green one is a certificate of registration on the central register of foreigners and it also contains your NIE number.


----------



## sat

Pesky Wesky said:


> ... when it expires you will be given the above green certificate which never runs out


Just to confuse things I was told last when i got my new green certificate is only for 10 years, and will need renewing after 10 years.


----------



## jojo

almendros said:


> Just to clarify to avoid confusion:-
> 
> There is only one NIE certificate and that is the white one.
> 
> The green one is a certificate of registration on the central register of foreigners and it also contains your NIE number.



Yes, but if you get the green one, you dont get a white one! They told me that the green one was a residencia and NIE combined!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Yes, but if you get the green one, you dont get a white one! They told me that the green one was a residencia and NIE combined!
> 
> Jo xxx


eggsackerly!


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> eggsackerly!


Surely you mean "Eggs Zachary" a well known starter on top restaurant menus!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

almendros said:


> Just to clarify to avoid confusion:-
> 
> There is only one NIE certificate and that is the white one.
> 
> The green one is a certificate of registration on the central register of foreigners and it also contains your NIE number.





> Yes, but if you get the green one, you dont get a white one! They told me that the green one was a residencia and NIE combined!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, it just goes to show. This topic will NEVER be clear, unconfused, or clarified.

It will ALWAYS be anecdotal no matter what we do.

PS I don't have a white certificate and never have. I was told the green one never needed to be renewed. 

I have heard that when you turn 65 you have to burn the green certificate, run 3 times round the main square of your local town (naked) and if/ when you suvive that you'll be given a sky blue certificate that will self combust when you die, and/ or when you return to the UK
Any truth in that???????????


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> Surely you mean "Eggs Zachary" a well known starter on top restaurant menus!


STOP IT!!!


we'll be in trouble for going off topic


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, it just goes to show. This topic will NEVER be clear, unconfused, or clarified.
> 
> It will ALWAYS be anecdotal no matter what we do.
> 
> PS I don't have a white certificate and never have. I was told the green one never needed to be renewed.
> 
> I have heard that when you turn 65 you have to burn the green certificate, run 3 times round the main square of your local town (naked) and if/ when you suvive that you'll be given a sky blue certificate that will self combust when you die, and/ or when you return to the UK
> Any truth in that???????????


dunno


you'll have to tell me when you get there so that I can prepare myself


----------



## almendros

jojo said:


> Yes, but if you get the green one, you dont get a white one! They told me that the green one was a residencia and NIE combined!
> 
> Jo xxx


I thinks that what I said!!


----------



## Rosemary

*NIE in Murcia*

A friend is coming over shortly, they are moving inland in the Murcia region. They need to get NIEs and have been told they need to go to Murcia.
Does anyone have recent experience of getting NIEs in Murcia city? I am in alicante so not sure of process in Murcia.
Wher do they go and with what paperwork
Thanks for any help!


----------



## xabiaxica

Rosemary said:


> A friend is coming over shortly, they are moving inland in the Murcia region. They need to get NIEs and have been told they need to go to Murcia.
> Does anyone have recent experience of getting NIEs in Murcia city? I am in alicante so not sure of process in Murcia.
> Wher do they go and with what paperwork
> Thanks for any help!


the process itself _should be_ pretty much the same - it varies slightly from office to office
_
exactly where_ they have to go will depend upon_ exactly where_ they live - and they will really need to sign on the list of residents- not just get a NIE


I'm moving this to the 'NIE' sticky - have a good read


----------



## JoCatalunya

However, make sure you still carry a certifide copy of your passport as your NIE doesnt have photo ID and the police want to see said whenever they stop you. By the way, the Mossos in Catalunya rarely accept your driving licence as being photo proof of ID, why I do not know.


----------



## Happyexpat

Well thats sorted out then......I have the green residencia certificate which is also the NIE but I also have a white NIE. The green paper does not need to be renewed BUT there is a rumour that it is going to be scrapped and identity cards brought back ....Hooray and can't be quick enough!


----------



## thrax

Happyexpat said:


> Well thats sorted out then......I have the green residencia certificate which is also the NIE but I also have a white NIE. The green paper does not need to be renewed BUT there is a rumour that it is going to be scrapped and identity cards brought back ....Hooray and can't be quick enough!


That´s good news. An identity card will mean I will never again forget who I am. And knowing the Spanish system I will wake up one day and discover I am Maria Olazabel.


----------



## Happyexpat

It wll also mean that you don't have to carry your passport round for the pickpockets and bag thieves. Mind you your point is a good one as half the time I can't remember who I am, or at least deny it.....


----------



## almendros

It's just a rumour. The EU directive specifically prohibits the old residencia card unless it is for non EU family members of an EU citizen. They still are issued with a card.

What is most likely going to happen is that the registration certificate is going to be issued in a smaller, double sided version which will make it easier to have laminated without resorting to a copy which is not legally valid.

However it will still clearly state that it cannot be used for ID purposes.

It is being trialed in some areas with the intention to introduce it across Spain - big deal!!!


----------



## Happyexpat

Well all I would like to see is a wallet size version with a photo not for ID of course. Mind you I also cannot see why bank cards don't have a photo, it would certainly go some way to stopping fraud and theft.
Why are people so worried about ID cards, they seem like a good idea to me, after all the driving licence has your photo on it......


----------



## gabriele

I can only shake my head in wonder.


----------



## mags&woody

*residencia*

already have residencia but if i move to an
other area of spain do i have to renew?


----------



## xabiaxica

mags&woody said:


> already have residencia but if i move to an
> other area of spain do i have to renew?


you _should_ simply inform them that you have moved at the _oficina de extranjeros_

there's a link on the first post of the *NIE sticky* which has a list of them, so you should be able to find your new one


----------



## ozvic

*Is residency compulsory for (non-Spanish) children in Spain.......*

Hi all,

Quick question- due to some legal complexities, my daughter, who is Australian, may not have Spanish residency for a little while when we are first living in Spain- does this mean that she would not be able to attend daycare/childcare/playgroups etc...??? Or be registered with a doctor..? We would be looking for English speaking playgroups which may well be privately run and fee paying if that makes a difference...??? And are there International doctors who will treat you if you arent Spanish...? We are planning to be based in the Sotogrande area, the West of the Costa del Sol

Any advice gratefully receieved- thanks!


----------



## Guest

How old is she? 

I'd imagine she'd never be denied emergency care but as for continuing care in the public system I believe that she - and you - would need to be registered with _NIEs_ and _empadronados_.


----------



## ozvic

halydia said:


> How old is she?
> 
> I'd imagine she'd never be denied emergency care but as for continuing care in the public system I believe that she - and you - would need to be registered with _NIEs_ and _empadronados_.


Thanks for the reply! She will be 2 years old....what about childcares/daycares/nursery schools etc..? Her paperwork is complicated, I will be registered as I am a UK citizen but she may take a while, she was adopted from China and this makes it less straightforward for us apparently!!!! Thanks again.


----------



## Guest

Ah, gotcha. Frustrating! 

At 2 years old she'll have no problems with mandatory schooling, which is what prompted me to ask her age. I don't know if there's public daycare for two year olds where you will be (there is where I am) but it would be worth asking about. I'm sorry I can't help more, I've never been in this situation. 

Best of luck!


----------



## mags&woody

xabiachica said:


> you _should_ simply inform them that you have moved at the _oficina de extranjeros_
> 
> there's a link on the first post of the *NIE sticky* which has a list of them, so you should be able to find your new one


Will do that thank you


----------



## thrax

We were told that our 15 month old boy would not need NIE or residency until he is 16 but I have no idea if that is actually correct. If anyone knows the definitive truth please tell!!


----------



## xabiaxica

to enter into the state school system a child _does_ need to be reigistered as resident & have a NIE number - private nurseries & so on are usually happy enough to take money from anyone, legally resident or not

English speaking establishments will be privately run - so that won't be a problem for ozvic

the same with private medical care - if you're paying, they'll treat you

I _think_ - but I'm not 100% certain - that if you are in the state healthcare system then she is covered as a dependent, as long as she is legally your dependent


----------



## bristolbrett

EU - Residence rights, non-EU spouses/children of EU nationals abroad - Your Europe

Does this help at all? 

Dependents of EU residents are treated as family members rather than individuals seeking residence. So, I think that as long as you have proof of the family relationship, then you apply for it through that avenue. No doubt it will be more complicated than that (things here often are) but it should just be a matter of doing the paperwork as necessary.

Anything that you are entitled to she is entitled to - as your dependent. You might have to ask for a temporary piece of paper showing that you have applied for an NIE for her and should be able to use that for her for healthcare. 

Good luck with the move.


----------



## xabiaxica

I've copied/moved the education related posts which arose from ozvic's question to http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/62551-education-spain.html


----------



## xabiaxica

has anyone used the EX16 recently - I finally managed to persuade my dad to get legal!!!

it's so long since we did ours that I can't remember what goes in part 3

do we tick _Certificado Registro residente comunitario_

or _Certificado Registro residente comunitario permanente_



or do we not have to fill part 3 in at all - none of the _SUPUESTOS DE ACCESO_ seem to apply :confused2:


----------



## brocher

xabiachica said:


> has anyone used the EX16 recently - I finally managed to persuade my dad to get legal!!!
> 
> it's so long since we did ours that I can't remember what goes in part 3
> 
> do we tick _Certificado Registro residente comunitario_
> 
> or _Certificado Registro residente comunitario permanente_
> 
> 
> 
> or do we not have to fill part 3 in at all - none of the _SUPUESTOS DE ACCESO_ seem to apply :confused2:



We weren't sure about part 3 and my daughter tells me, by a process of elimination, she just ticked the first option - Certificado Registro residente comunitario.

We didn't need the padron, from this info you would do that once you have the NI - Registering on the Padron

Went along armed with documents but the only thing needed was the passport. There is a sign up saying that UK passport holders should also bring a copy of the *first* page of their passport which shows the words, European Union.

This is how we got on applying for th NI in Marbella - 

We arrived around 7.30am although the office does not open until 9.00am. There were already about a dozen people in the queue, and many joined behind us.

At 8.30am a police officer and a civilian came outside, you flashed your form at them and they gave you a form for the bank payment and a sticker. We got a yellow sticker but there were also blue ones - no idea what the difference is.

Everyone followed each other to the nearest bank, only to find it only accepted payments from those who already had an NI (some people must have been applying for something else). The next bank only accepted payments between 11am and noon -too late. Third bank accepted all payments!

Back to queue outside - where small groups were called inside by their ticket number and colour. 

Once inside my daughter only had to hand over her application and passport, seemed very easy and was told to return in one hour to collect her NI number.

The hardest part was convincing the door people to let her back in - they were trying to tell her she was too late arriving and would have to come early next day and get a number!

PS. plenty cafes round about for hanger-ons to pass the time waiting for applicant to run from bank to bank, etc!


----------



## xabiaxica

brocher said:


> We weren't sure about part 3 and my daughter tells me, by a process of elimination, she just ticked the first option - Certificado Registro residente comunitario.
> 
> We didn't need the padron, from this info you would do that once you have the NI - Registering on the Padron
> 
> Went along armed with documents but the only thing needed was the passport. There is a sign up saying that UK passport holders should also bring a copy of the *first* page of their passport which shows the words, European Union.
> 
> This is how we got on applying for th NI in Marbella -
> 
> We arrived around 7.30am although the office does not open until 9.00am. There were already about a dozen people in the queue, and many joined behind us.
> 
> At 8.30am a police officer and a civilian came outside, you flashed your form at them and they gave you a form for the bank payment and a sticker. We got a yellow sticker but there were also blue ones - no idea what the difference is.
> 
> Everyone followed each other to the nearest bank, only to find it only accepted payments from those who already had an NI (some people must have been applying for something else). The next bank only accepted payments between 11am and noon -too late. Third bank accepted all payments!
> 
> Back to queue outside - where small groups were called inside by their ticket number and colour.
> 
> Once inside my daughter only had to hand over her application and passport, seemed very easy and was told to return in one hour to collect her NI number.
> 
> The hardest part was convincing the door people to let her back in - they were trying to tell her she was too late arriving and would have to come early next day and get a number!
> 
> PS. plenty cafes round about for hanger-ons to pass the time waiting for applicant to run from bank to bank, etc!


brilliant, thanks!!

it's all changed so much since we did ours

we'd already been here years when the new system was introduced, so were on the padrón already - and it's some years since we 'registered' too

I could remeber the drill.....just not which boxes to tick............with my 85 year old dad in tow I just want it to go as smoothly as possible.....he has been resisting this for a few months now - but we finally managed to persuade him he's not giving up his nationality!!


----------



## pladecalvo

The Eastern Europeans in Valencia have cracked the system re queuing for registration.They have noticed that the very elderly or people with babes in arms get priority and get lifted out of the queue before their turn. When I took some friends to register we queued for three hours and in that time saw the same baby return with 4 different 'mothers'. So if you need to register in Valencia, try to borrow a baby for a few hours...or ask your granny to accompany you.


----------



## brocher

pladecalvo said:


> The Eastern Europeans in Valencia have cracked the system re queuing for registration.They have noticed that the very elderly or people with babes in arms get priority and get lifted out of the queue before their turn. When I took some friends to register we queued for three hours and in that time saw the same baby return with 4 different 'mothers'. So if you need to register in Valencia, try to borrow a baby for a few hours...or ask your granny to accompany you.



Ha, there were several kids in our queue but I didn't see anyone getting preferential treatment - everyone was just taken in turn as they'd queued!!


----------



## pladecalvo

brocher said:


> Ha, there were several kids in our queue but I didn't see anyone getting preferential treatment - everyone was just taken in turn as they'd queued!!


They clearly hadn't perfected the art of getting the baby to cry whilst they themselves carried out an Oscar winning performance as 'harassed Mum'.


----------



## xabiaxica

*NIE/resident cert in Benidorm*

from Jávea, our nearest oficna de extranjeros is in Denia - but you have to go queue early on a Friday morning to be given an appointment the following week (if you're lucky) - not convenient for a busy family

so we went to Benidorm - my dad needs to get his paperwork sorted

you can just turn up any day mon-fri 10-2 - no appointment necessary

I had to work this morning, so it was 12ish when we got there- a few people in front of us 

for the NIE - you need form EX14 and a copy, original passport, copy of passport (I copied both the front page & the one with picture to be safe) & a passport sized photo

you get to the desk - s/he gives you the bank form, off you toddle to the bank - 9.50€

back to the office - back up to the desk - they check everything & you can go back for the NIE a week later, at which time you can apply for your residents cert

for that you need form EX16 - passport & photocopies as before (though you might not need those if you are picking up your NIE at the same time- better safe than sorry though)

s/he gives you a bank form - off you toddle to the bank - another 10.50€ 

back to the office, back to the desk, tap tap tap on the computer & the green certificate is printed:clap2:

I wouldn't get there any later than we did - my OH said there was a queue outside when he went to the bank about 20 mins after we got there - and there was a really loooong one by the time we left


----------



## almendros

xabiachica said:


> back to the office - back up to the desk - they check everything & you can go back for the NIE a week later, at which time you can apply for your residents cert
> 
> for that you need form EX16 - passport & photocopies as before (though you might not need those if you are picking up your NIE at the same time- better safe than sorry though)


Apply for the residents certificate in the first place and it includes a shiny new NIE for the same price.

No point in doing it twice!


----------



## xabiaxica

almendros said:


> Apply for the residents certificate in the first place and it includes a shiny new NIE for the same price.
> 
> No point in doing it twice!


that's what we tried to do - but they weren't playing!!


----------



## almendros

Oh here we go again.

Jobsworths who don't even know their own rules.

There are times when I really hate Spain and these idiot public servants with jobs for life and a big pension!


----------



## xabiaxica

almendros said:


> Oh here we go again.
> 
> Jobsworths who don't even know their own rules.
> 
> There are times when I really hate Spain and these idiot public servants with jobs for life and a big pension!


that's why I posted the specific info for Benidorm - they seem to have their own interpretation in different offices

at least it was walk in & out pretty much - I'm hearing of 4 month + wait just for an appointment for a NIE in Madrid!!

who knows what will happen when you actually get there!!


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> that's why I posted the specific info for Benidorm - they seem to have their own interpretation in different offices
> 
> at least it was walk in & out pretty much - I'm hearing of 4 month + wait just for an appointment for a NIE in Madrid!!
> 
> who knows what will happen when you actually get there!!


In the Provinces it is usually much quicker(e.g. get in by 9.30 come back at 1 and collect the residencia or NIE), however the knowledge/interpretation of the rules is no better and, if anything, worse.

One point to note is that some banks/cajas sometimes only take one type of transaction cash or accounts or cards at certain times of the day.


----------



## almendros

xabiachica said:


> that's why I posted the specific info for Benidorm - they seem to have their own interpretation in different offices
> 
> at least it was walk in & out pretty much - I'm hearing of 4 month + wait just for an appointment for a NIE in Madrid!!
> 
> who knows what will happen when you actually get there!!


As you say, at least it's quick. It is really a bad joke in some areas. You are supposed to register after 90 days in Spain - by the time they can see you you have probably gone back to the UK!

In our area it's walk in - walk out.

There are times when the public sector in the UK looks really on the ball in comparison!


----------



## xabiaxica

almendros said:


> As you say, at least it's quick. It is really a bad joke in some areas. You are supposed to register after 90 days in Spain - by the time they can see you you have probably gone back to the UK!
> 
> In our area it's walk in - walk out.
> 
> There are times when the public sector in the UK looks really on the ball in comparison!


he's been here 7 months now - he had to make up his mind.............not an eyelid batted though by the very friendly girl in uniform behind the desk

there was a couple there who had been here over 4 years - didn't speak spanish, so I could hear everything the interpreter was saying - the attitude was 'better late than never'


----------



## MaidenScotland

xabiachica said:


> from Jávea, our nearest oficna de extranjeros is in Denia - but you have to go queue early on a Friday morning to be given an appointment the following week (if you're lucky) - not convenient for a busy family
> 
> so we went to Benidorm - my dad needs to get his paperwork sorted
> 
> you can just turn up any day mon-fri 10-2 - no appointment necessary
> 
> I had to work this morning, so it was 12ish when we got there- a few people in front of us
> 
> for the NIE - you need form EX14 and a copy, original passport, copy of passport (I copied both the front page & the one with picture to be safe) & a passport sized photo
> 
> you get to the desk - s/he gives you the bank form, off you toddle to the bank - 9.50€
> 
> back to the office - back up to the desk - they check everything & you can go back for the NIE a week later, at which time you can apply for your residents cert
> 
> for that you need form EX16 - passport & photocopies as before (though you might not need those if you are picking up your NIE at the same time- better safe than sorry though)
> 
> s/he gives you a bank form - off you toddle to the bank - another 10.50€
> 
> back to the office, back to the desk, tap tap tap on the computer & the green certificate is printed:clap2:
> 
> I wouldn't get there any later than we did - my OH said there was a queue outside when he went to the bank about 20 mins after we got there - and there was a really loooong one by the time we left




I applied for my NIE through the Spanish embassy... free
My residency at Elche in and out in 10 minutes.. free


----------



## xabiaxica

MaidenScotland said:


> I applied for my NIE through the Spanish embassy... free
> My residency at Elche in and out in 10 minutes.. free


I remember telling you that you could get your NIE that way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Elche for residency.............oh buççer............though it might just be pushing the distance for us......

what the heck..............I feel arroz ***** in my fave restaurant in Beni coming on..............


----------



## brocher

xabiachica said:


> from Jávea, our nearest oficna de extranjeros is in Denia - but you have to go queue early on a Friday morning to be given an appointment the following week (if you're lucky) - not convenient for a busy family
> 
> so we went to Benidorm - my dad needs to get his paperwork sorted
> 
> you can just turn up any day mon-fri 10-2 - no appointment necessary
> 
> I had to work this morning, so it was 12ish when we got there- a few people in front of us
> 
> for the NIE - you need form EX14 and a copy, original passport, copy of passport (I copied both the front page & the one with picture to be safe) & a passport sized photo
> 
> you get to the desk - s/he gives you the bank form, off you toddle to the bank - 9.50€
> 
> back to the office - back up to the desk - they check everything & you can go back for the NIE a week later, at which time you can apply for your residents cert
> 
> for that you need form EX16 - passport & photocopies as before (though you might not need those if you are picking up your NIE at the same time- better safe than sorry though)
> 
> s/he gives you a bank form - off you toddle to the bank - another 10.50€
> 
> back to the office, back to the desk, tap tap tap on the computer & the green certificate is printed:clap2:
> 
> I wouldn't get there any later than we did - my OH said there was a queue outside when he went to the bank about 20 mins after we got there - and there was a really loooong one by the time we left



Oh dear, and there was you telling us it was Ex16 or we would have gone with the Ex14. Seems you really can't win!

Surprised you were accepted at a different office - I thought it had to be your nearest one. We got talking to a man queuing with us, who had arrrived too late to get a number the previous day. They gave him his sticker, sent him to the bank (queue for three banks before one accepts payments), back to queue outside until his number was called in - then the poor bloke was told he'd have to apply in Estapona!


----------



## xabiaxica

brocher said:


> Oh dear, and there was you telling us it was Ex16 or we would have gone with the Ex14. Seems you really can't win!
> 
> Surprised you were accepted at a different office - I thought it had to be your nearest one. We got talking to a man queuing with us, who had arrrived too late to get a number the previous day. They gave him his sticker, sent him to the bank (queue for three banks before one accepts payments), back to queue outside until his number was called in - then the poor bloke was told he'd have to apply in Estapona!


they were really helpful & gave us the EX14 to fill in there & then - I told her he needs both & they were supposed to do both on the EX16 - but no joy......

I knew someone who had been to Benidorm from Jávea within the past few weeks - bernice who posts on here - & I also know someone else who had been as far away as Elche - so thought it was worth a try at least


----------



## MaidenScotland

brocher said:


> Oh dear, and there was you telling us it was Ex16 or we would have gone with the Ex14. Seems you really can't win!
> 
> Surprised you were accepted at a different office - I thought it had to be your nearest one. We got talking to a man queuing with us, who had arrrived too late to get a number the previous day. They gave him his sticker, sent him to the bank (queue for three banks before one accepts payments), back to queue outside until his number was called in - then the poor bloke was told he'd have to apply in Estapona!


I applied to the one nearest my work...


----------



## MaidenScotland

xabiachica said:


> I remember telling you that you could get your NIE that way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> Elche for residency.............oh buççer............though it might just be pushing the distance for us......
> 
> what the heck..............I feel arroz ***** in my fave restaurant in Beni coming on..............




Trouble with doing it at the embassy is that it can take weeks, I was actually in Spain 4 days when they rang and told me my NIE number was at the embassy but they did scan it through and yes the scan was accepted for my residency.. btw I do not have a stamp on my NIE certificate.


----------



## stevesainty

Since the Spanish Consulate in Manchester has closed the nearest one to us is Edinburgh.
I emailed them to enquire about applying for an NIE before coming to Spain.

This is their reply

CONSULADO GENERAL DE ESPAÑA 
EDIMBURGO 


HOW TO OBTAIN AN N.I.E. NUMBER – (NÚMERO DE IDENTIDAD DE EXTRANJERO)


1.- The Spanish Consulate General cannot issue the NIE number. It only acts as a “courier” between the applicant and the competent Authorities in Spain.

2.- An application for an NIE number should be made in person at the nearest Police Station (dept. of “Extranjería”) where you intend to live in Spain or where you have or intend to have a property.

3.- If your solicitor or agent in Spain can apply for the N.I.E. number on your behalf, you will need to send a legalised notarial photocopy of your passport with the rest of the documents. This process will be the fastest way to obtain the number, other than going in person to Spain. We can do the legalisation at this Consulate, there is a fee of £10.00 for this.

4.- However if you wish to send your application through this Consulate you will need to bring the following in person:

a) Your current valid passport and a photocopy of it. 
b) Two passport-size photographs.
c) A photocopy of any documentation to back up your application. 
d) The application form for NIE duly completed and signed, plus a photocopy of it. The form can be obtained from the following website and it should be TYPED or written very clearly in capital letters (it might be rejected if unreadable):

http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/modelos/ex...anje/ex_14.pdf

(Please note that we will not enter or comment into the accuracy of the information on the form)

e) An envelope addressed to:

COMISARÍA GENERAL DE EXTRANJERÍA Y DOCUMENTACIÓN
DIRECCIÓN GENERAL DE POLICÍA
C/ GENERAL PARDIÑAS Nº 90
28006 MADRID

f) If you wish the NIE to return to you in Scotland, you should include a self-addressed envelope also.

5.- Any enquiries about the process thereafter should be made directly to the address mentioned above 4 (e).

Consulate General of Spain – 63 North Castle Street – Edinburgh EH2 3LJ 
Tel: 0131 220 1843 Fax: 0131 226 4568 E-mail: [email protected]


Question

4c what constitutes documents to support your application?

4. Documentación que justifique los motivos de la solicitud.(from notes of how to fill in the form)

The most that we will have before we come to Spain will be a Spanish bank account.


----------



## xabiaxica

stevesainty said:


> Since the Spanish Consulate in Manchester has closed the nearest one to us is Edinburgh.
> I emailed them to enquire about applying for an NIE before coming to Spain.
> 
> This is their reply
> 
> CONSULADO GENERAL DE ESPAÑA
> EDIMBURGO
> 
> 
> HOW TO OBTAIN AN N.I.E. NUMBER – (NÚMERO DE IDENTIDAD DE EXTRANJERO)
> 
> 
> 1.- The Spanish Consulate General cannot issue the NIE number. It only acts as a “courier” between the applicant and the competent Authorities in Spain.
> 
> 2.- An application for an NIE number should be made in person at the nearest Police Station (dept. of “Extranjería”) where you intend to live in Spain or where you have or intend to have a property.
> 
> 3.- If your solicitor or agent in Spain can apply for the N.I.E. number on your behalf, you will need to send a legalised notarial photocopy of your passport with the rest of the documents. This process will be the fastest way to obtain the number, other than going in person to Spain. We can do the legalisation at this Consulate, there is a fee of £10.00 for this.
> 
> 4.- However if you wish to send your application through this Consulate you will need to bring the following in person:
> 
> a) Your current valid passport and a photocopy of it.
> b) Two passport-size photographs.
> c) A photocopy of any documentation to back up your application.
> d) The application form for NIE duly completed and signed, plus a photocopy of it. The form can be obtained from the following website and it should be TYPED or written very clearly in capital letters (it might be rejected if unreadable):
> 
> http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/modelos/ex...anje/ex_14.pdf
> 
> (Please note that we will not enter or comment into the accuracy of the information on the form)
> 
> e) An envelope addressed to:
> 
> COMISARÍA GENERAL DE EXTRANJERÍA Y DOCUMENTACIÓN
> DIRECCIÓN GENERAL DE POLICÍA
> C/ GENERAL PARDIÑAS Nº 90
> 28006 MADRID
> 
> f) If you wish the NIE to return to you in Scotland, you should include a self-addressed envelope also.
> 
> 5.- Any enquiries about the process thereafter should be made directly to the address mentioned above 4 (e).
> 
> Consulate General of Spain – 63 North Castle Street – Edinburgh EH2 3LJ
> Tel: 0131 220 1843 Fax: 0131 226 4568 E-mail: [email protected]
> 
> 
> Question
> 
> 4c what constitutes documents to support your application?
> 
> 4. Documentación que justifique los motivos de la solicitud.(from notes of how to fill in the form)
> 
> The most that we will have before we come to Spain will be a Spanish bank account.


if you're not planning to buy a house or a car before you live here - don't bother getting a NIE - you don't need it til then


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> if you're not planning to buy a house or a car before you live here - don't bother getting a NIE - you don't need it til then


but it is one less thing to do and, in our case, the bank wanted one to open an account.

For us, we just used somebody who knew the ropes and she took us to Jaén (the nearest extranjeros) and back (a round trip of 180km) dealt with the necessaries and we were out again in three quarters of an hour. She only charged us 50€ including the cost of petrol and her time - well worth it.


----------



## stevesainty

We are hoping to get our NIE's sorted out before we come as we will need to buy a car PDQ because we will be looking for a permanent rental during our first few weeks. We will take a holiday let for the first month or so, it should not cost us that much as it will be out of season.

The main thrust of my enquiry though is what does constitute supporting evidence in our case? I would expect under normal circumstances it would be a tenancy agreement or a contract of employment. We will almost certainly have a bank account, we hope to sort that out next spring on our next but one, and final, reccy.


----------



## xabiaxica

stevesainty said:


> We are hoping to get our NIE's sorted out before we come as we will need to buy a car PDQ because we will be looking for a permanent rental during our first few weeks. We will take a holiday let for the first month or so, it should not cost us that much as it will be out of season.
> 
> The main thrust of my enquiry though is what does constitute supporting evidence in our case? I would expect under normal circumstances it would be a tenancy agreement or a contract of employment. We will almost certainly have a bank account, we hope to sort that out next spring on our next but one, and final, reccy.


they didn't actually ask my dad for anything other than what we had - we had his passport & photocopies & a photo

if, as you should be able to, you get your NIE when you apply for your residents cert, they don't want any

we got our NIEs so long ago that I'm not sure - but I don't think we had to provide anything either - but that was in Spain

maybe someone who has done this recently will know - MaidenScotland got hers done at an embassy recently


----------



## almendros

stevesainty said:


> The main thrust of my enquiry though is what does constitute supporting evidence in our case?


I think that just claiming that you are intending to buy a property will be OK - even if it is not true.


----------



## MaidenScotland

xabiachica said:


> they didn't actually ask my dad for anything other than what we had - we had his passport & photocopies & a photo
> 
> if, as you should be able to, you get your NIE when you apply for your residents cert, they don't want any
> 
> we got our NIEs so long ago that I'm not sure - but I don't think we had to provide anything either - but that was in Spain
> 
> maybe someone who has done this recently will know - MaidenScotland got hers done at an embassy recently




I supplied photos as the girl at the embassy said.. you never know
Black and white copy of my passport plus a letter from the agents who I was going to buy the property from.


----------



## baldilocks

almendros said:


> I think that just claiming that you are intending to buy a property will be OK - even if it is not true.


I think that might prove to be a pink rag to a bull. If that is what you are claiming, then they are more likely to want some indication that what you are saying is true.


----------



## MaidenScotland

almendros said:


> I think that just claiming that you are intending to buy a property will be OK - even if it is not true.




No it will not do.. your agent has to provide details of the property you are intending buying


----------



## stevesainty

I think that I will write to Madrid and get an answer from the people who will say yea or nay.

The address that we have from the Consulate in Edinburgh is

COMISARÍA GENERAL DE EXTRANJERÍA Y DOCUMENTACIÓN
DIRECCIÓN GENERAL DE POLICÍA
C/ GENERAL PARDIÑAS Nº 90
28006 MADRID 

Can anyone confirm that this is where I should be writing please?

I will do the letter in my bestest Spanish, to be polite.

(alright I will run it by my spanish teacher to make sure there are no faux pas)


----------



## xabiaxica

*Very important!!!*

there have been changes to the forms needed for NIE & signing on the residents list!!

the first post of this thread & the link for the forms in 'useful links' will be amended


----------



## MacRov

hah yeah we found that out last week, our agent had downloaded the forms n filled it all in, had everything photocopied ready for us to just go there n do the deed. No on arrival we were told it's no longer a tuesday n thursday at Cartagena police HQ it's now Monday n Friday.
Turn up again last Friday to wait again, then it's our turn and straight away told our forms are the wrong ones, get new ones from another desk n filled in, find somewhere to copy them go back again and eventually get seen.
The woman takes everything, stamps a few things and says come back in a week with 10euros for each NIE haha.
So hopefully today it should all be done (i'm back offshore so the mrs will have to deal with it lol)


----------



## xabiaxica

MacRov said:


> hah yeah we found that out last week, our agent had downloaded the forms n filled it all in, had everything photocopied ready for us to just go there n do the deed. No on arrival we were told it's no longer a tuesday n thursday at Cartagena police HQ it's now Monday n Friday.
> Turn up again last Friday to wait again, then it's our turn and straight away told our forms are the wrong ones, get new ones from another desk n filled in, find somewhere to copy them go back again and eventually get seen.
> The woman takes everything, stamps a few things and says come back in a week with 10euros for each NIE haha.
> So hopefully today it should all be done (i'm back offshore so the mrs will have to deal with it lol)


we used both a EX14 & EX16 last week in Benidorm without problem - I dare say it will be a little while before all the offices catch up


----------



## MacRov

Well our agent went to pick up all our NIE's a week later as instructed and was then told that she couldn't take them as they now need 2 take finger prints of us before giving out the NIE's hahaha. How they couldn't have told us that when we were last there I don't know. 
Nevermind it's all a learning experience and we get to go to Cartagena again which is an amazing city.
So now going to have to wait another 3 weeks as I'm back offshore in the UK, I wonder what we'll be told next time we go.


----------



## xabiaxica

MacRov said:


> Well our agent went to pick up all our NIE's a week later as instructed and was then told that she couldn't take them as they now need 2 take finger prints of us before giving out the NIE's hahaha. How they couldn't have told us that when we were last there I don't know.
> Nevermind it's all a learning experience and we get to go to Cartagena again which is an amazing city.
> So now going to have to wait another 3 weeks as I'm back offshore in the UK, I wonder what we'll be told next time we go.


fingerprints


----------



## MacRov

Exactly what I thought.


----------



## xabiaxica

MacRov said:


> Exactly what I thought.


I'm going to go have a close read of the new forms & the instructions........


----------



## baldilocks

Every time something works passably well someone has to put a "finger" in and muck it up!


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> Every time something works passably well someone has to put a "finger" in and muck it up!


well I just had a close look at the new forms & the instructions & guess what?

it says nothing about fingerprints - or even about photos...................


----------



## MacRov

hah, well we were asked for photos when we were there just over a week ago, 4 of if I remember correctly.


----------



## stevesainty

*Applying for NIE prior to coming to Spain*

Attached is a reply I received from the Spanish consulate in London. I am still awaiting a reply from a letter I sent to the Madrid Oficina de Extranjeros.

Apparently you cannot apply for an NIE before you come to Spain if you intend to live in Spain permanently, or solely to open a bank account.

If you wish to buy a property or shares then you can apply beforehand. that is probably why you have to include supporting evidence to back up your application.
(see my previous posts on this subject)

So it looks like we cannot bypass the system and we must wait until we arrive here and find ourselves a long term rental before we apply for our NIE's. A bit of a pain as it means we will have to hire a car for as long as it takes as we cannot buy one. Ya este!

At least according to some forum members, at some Oficinas you can get your NIE and residencia on the same day without too much trouble. I hope we end up at one of those. I will keep you posted if and when I receive a reply from Madrid.

Steve


----------



## baldilocks

It is a case of goalposts - they just keep moving them to give the funcionarios something to do and keep them on their toes (trouble is most of them are flat-footed and have never been on their toes in their lives).


----------



## thrax

I haven't read all of this thread but I know that you don't need an NIE to open a bank account, but within three months of opening one, you need either a non-residents or residents NIE or they block the account. Most banks will offer you the facility of getting the relevant NIE for you but it will cos a bit more than doing it yourself.


----------



## gabriele

*NIE number to buy car in Spain*



stevesainty said:


> Attached is a reply I received from the Spanish consulate in London. I am still awaiting a reply from a letter I sent to the Madrid Oficina de Extranjeros.
> 
> Apparently you cannot apply for an NIE before you come to Spain if you intend to live in Spain permanently, or solely to open a bank account.
> 
> If you wish to buy a property or shares then you can apply beforehand. that is probably why you have to include supporting evidence to back up your application.
> (see my previous posts on this subject)
> 
> So it looks like we cannot bypass the system and we must wait until we arrive here and find ourselves a long term rental before we apply for our NIE's. A bit of a pain as it means we will have to hire a car for as long as it takes as we cannot buy one. Ya este!
> 
> At least according to some forum members, at some Oficinas you can get your NIE and residencia on the same day without too much trouble. I hope we end up at one of those. I will keep you posted if and when I receive a reply from Madrid.
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve, 

so sorry for you. I never realized that it may get so costly, such has having to hire a car just because of not getting the NIE in time. 

What would it look like with some special deal with some British owned workshop where they would be pleased to organize you a car and give it to you at a more specical rate? Or that you get a refund once you have the NIE and can buy the particular car? I am thinking of something along the line of hire purchase but not the official way. 

Today I was surprised to see at least 6 excellent vehicle repair workshops in Tenerife North and South where the owners spoke English, German and Spanish and came all highly recommended. 

I was under the impression that they are all decent business people. I am sure one can always do a fair deal with good people. Asking nicely doesn't cost anything. So please try your luck in Spain and ask around. And do a lot of search online.
Please, don't despair. I will keep thumbs up for you. 

Gabriele


----------



## xabiaxica

gabriele said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> so sorry for you. I never realized that it may get so costly, such has having to hire a car just because of not getting the NIE in time.
> 
> What would it look like with some special deal with some British owned workshop where they would be pleased to organize you a car and give it to you at a more specical rate? Or that you get a refund once you have the NIE and can buy the particular car? I am thinking of something along the line of hire purchase but not the official way.
> 
> Today I was surprised to see at least 6 excellent vehicle repair workshops in Tenerife North and South where the owners spoke English, German and Spanish and came all highly recommended.
> 
> I was under the impression that they are all decent business people. I am sure one can always do a fair deal with good people. Asking nicely doesn't cost anything. So please try your luck in Spain and ask around. And do a lot of search online.
> Please, don't despair. I will keep thumbs up for you.
> 
> Gabriele


not a good idea- no matter how trustworthy they seem to be


in any case -getting a NIE _is _ possible on the same day in many areas - and within a week in mine - then when you return to collect it you can sort out your resident cert which you get on the same day:focus:


of course all that could change by the time steve comes to live here - you never know you might even be able to get a NIE in advance in order to buy a car!!


----------



## thrax

Have you opened a bank account yet? If not, I would recommend Cajamar (only from personal experience) but they will open the account on the same day (takes about 2 hours and 20 signatures) and they will also get your non-residents NIE certificate for you. (I'm sure other banks offer the same service, I just don't know about them) My parents, who moved over here a week ago tomorrow, visited in June to find a place to rent and open a bank account. On the Monday after they arrived, they went to the bank, collected their debit cards and NIE certificates which the bank had obtained for them. They will change to residency status later this year. So if you are able to I would suggest a flying visit for a couple of days to get this sorted for when you arrive. Then you will have your NIE and be able to buy a vehicle.


----------



## Guest

I´ve got to go and sort this is, but have a few questions.

1) as an EU Citizen (British national) wishing to apply for residency, I fill in EX18? I live in Spain with my Spanish OH and am not here "temporarily". Given my partner is Spanish, I´m guessing I don´t need a family residency (EX19). Is that correct?

2) I´m here to work and play (oodles!), but guess I can´t answer Work and Social on the form. What would your recommendation be?

3) The section for legal representative. Is this purely for people who´ve submitted through an agent?

4) Photo´s and Fingerprints. Are there any rules re photos? I know in UK, I had to be wearing dark clothes for passport and in Germany, you need an ear showing (I kid you not). Is the fingerprint thing a requirement, not that its an issue, just want to be clear and be prepared to sort it all ooot!

Apologies if I´m repeating questions already asked, but at 47 pages, this thread is a tad big to trawl through. 

PS - I tried the thread tools, but the printable version option is just a web version sans webby prettification and still requires you to click through 47 pages


----------



## xabiaxica

Yossa said:


> I´ve got to go and sort this is, but have a few questions.
> 
> 1) as an EU Citizen (British national) wishing to apply for residency, I fill in EX18? I live in Spain with my Spanish OH and am not here "temporarily". Given my partner is Spanish, I´m guessing I don´t need a family residency (EX19). Is that correct?
> 
> 2) I´m here to work and play (oodles!), but guess I can´t answer Work and Social on the form. What would your recommendation be?
> 
> 3) The section for legal representative. Is this purely for people who´ve submitted through an agent?
> 
> 4) Photo´s and Fingerprints. Are there any rules re photos? I know in UK, I had to be wearing dark clothes for passport and in Germany, you need an ear showing (I kid you not). Is the fingerprint thing a requirement, not that its an issue, just want to be clear and be prepared to sort it all ooot!
> 
> Apologies if I´m repeating questions already asked, but at 47 pages, this thread is a tad big to trawl through.
> 
> PS - I tried the thread tools, but the printable version option is just a web version sans webby prettification and still requires you to click through 47 pages


1 - EX18 
2 - we put social for my dad, but it wasn't the EX18 when we did his - though it apparently had already changed at that point they accepted the old form
3 - yes - that's if you have someone doing it for you
4 - passport sized from a booth is fine
5 - again -old form & didn't ask for fingerprints


PS - have you tried just printing the web version? I just opened it & pressed print & my printer came to life...............


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> PS - have you tried just printing the web version? I just opened it & pressed print & my printer came to life...............


Thanks for that advice. I like to be prepared for eventualities and not get caught on the hop. Still, this is Spain...

Re printing - it only prints the first page, 10 thread posts, not all 47 pages. Being a geek, I looked on Vbulletin´s forum (peeps behind forum s/w) and can´t find anything meaningful about this issue. My idea was to print to PDF, do a cafeine-powered read/edit and send it back to you guys to edit as downloadable guide. :ranger:

Ho hum


----------



## xabiaxica

Yossa said:


> Thanks for that advice. I like to be prepared for eventualities and not get caught on the hop. Still, this is Spain...
> 
> Re printing - it only prints the first page, 10 thread posts, not all 47 pages. Being a geek, I looked on Vbulletin´s forum (peeps behind forum s/w) and can´t find anything meaningful about this issue. My idea was to print to PDF, do a cafeine-powered read/edit and send it back to you guys to edit as downloadable guide. :ranger:
> 
> Ho hum


oooohhh

I thought you meant the form

very kind of you to offer - but if you ever do read through the entire thread you'll realise that 'how to' is different everywhere, depending on the day of the week & who is sitting behind the desk


----------



## stevesainty

Hi all, I thought that I would try to apply for an NIE at the Edinburgh Consulate when we next visit my eldest DD who has lived in Edinburgh since she left home to go to university.

I have had a look at filling in the attached form EX15.

This is the form for applying for an NIE without registering as an extranjero, i.e. getting an NIE without being resident in Spain.

There is no place to put your UK address, I thought it should have been in section 3.

Section 4.1 I take it that I just check the box for NIE and leave certificado blank.
Section 4.2 por intereses sociales, Comprar una casa en España
section 4.3 Oficina consular
Section 4.4 Estancia and Consiento

So so far I have filled in section 1 apart from a Spanish address and the legal representitive, and section 4, the rest is blank. This can't be correct surely?


----------



## dijiste

OK, I have read all 47 and a bit pages of this thread, and I'm still not sure I know the answer to my question... 

I arrive in Navarra on Tues to start work as a teacher on Thurs. I was planning to go the Oficina de Extranjeros on Wednesday to sort out getting my NIE/name on the residents' list. However, I have no address in Spain until I find somewhere to live, and I assume I can't get a rental agreement without an NIE.

So is it possible to get my NIE without an address? Could I put the address of the school, perhaps? 

Also, I would like to get a bank account asap, since I need to give the details to the local govt for my employment contract. Should I wait until I get an address/NIE for this?

As you can tell, I'm unsure about the order in which to do things! Would be grateful for any advice from the more experienced. I will be living in Tudela, which has an _Oficina de Extranjeros_.


----------



## jojo

it is a bit of a marathon isnt it. We do go thru it every now and again, but Spain does change things frequently and not just rules, but areas are different too. 

However, I can tell you that you can get an NIE number without an address (and you can rent a property without an NIE number). You go to the foreigners office and - well take it from there, some will do it straight away, others will give you an appointment. TOP TIP: take photo copies of everything you have thats vaguely official - passport, UK address, birth certificate, contract of employment ! You can open a non residents bank account (again take those photocopies), which you can change to resident once you have an address. 

Once you have your NIE number and an address, you will need to get a social security number! So you need to locate your local employment office INEM office and..... take photo copies of everything, including your NIE number/residencia

Jo xxx


----------



## dijiste

jojo said:


> it is a bit of a marathon isnt it. We do go thru it every now and again, but Spain does change things frequently and not just rules, but areas are different too.
> 
> However, I can tell you that you can get an NIE number without an address (and you can rent a property without an NIE number). You go to the foreigners office and - well take it from there, some will do it straight away, others will give you an appointment. TOP TIP: take photo copies of everything you have thats vaguely official - passport, UK address, birth certificate, contract of employment ! You can open a non residents bank account (again take those photocopies), which you can change to resident once you have an address.
> 
> Once you have your NIE number and an address, you will need to get a social security number! So you need to locate your local employment office INEM office and..... take photo copies of everything, including your NIE number/residencia
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi Jo, thank you very much for your quick and very helpful reply.

I have just found the new EX18 form online and have been filling in the bits I can answer. You would think I would have better things to do on a Saturday night, but apparently not! 

I have left the space for NIE blank - I assume from that which I've read on here that I will be given an NIE as part of the process. I will also leave the first line of the address blank. 

I'm a bit unclear about how to fill in section 8, but if I leave it blank I'm sure they will help me when I get there. I would like to put permanent, though under this section the options seem to indicate special circumstances which I don't think apply to me.

And yes, it certainly is a marathon, especially with the variations across the country, and even within the same office! I am considering also completing the old forms EX14 and EX16, in case the staff in Tudela haven't seen the new one yet...

I think I will be doing a fair bit of photocopying tomorrow.

Thanks again.


----------



## stevesainty

*Another change To NIE Rules ?*

Whilst trawling through lots of threads on this and other forums i came across this information. Apparently you cannot now apply for an NIE by granting power of attorney. You have to either apply in person in Spain or apply in person to the Spanish Consulate in your own country. It seems like the Spanish government are tightening up on fraud/money laundering.

As far as I know this change has not yet filtered down through the system yet so it may still be possible to get an NIE through POA, but not for much longer.

The five days quoted for an NIE to be issued through the Consulate only starts when the application reaches Madrid. To cut costs the Consulates are only sending non urgent stuff to Madrid every fortnight.

/SNIP/

see decreto 577/2011 art 206
http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/NormativaJurisprudencia/Nacional/RegimenExtranjeria/RegimenGeneral/documentos/reglamentoBOE-A-2011-7703.PDF


> Artículo 206. Número de identidad de extranjero.
> 
> 1. Los extranjeros a cuyo favor se inicie un procedimiento para obtener un documento que les habilite para permanecer en territorio español que no sea un visado, aquéllos a los que se les haya incoado un expediente administrativo en virtud de lo dispuesto en la normativa sobre extranjería y aquellos que por sus intereses económicos, profesionales o sociales se relacionen con España serán dotados, a los efectos de identificación, de un número personal, único y exclusivo, de carácter secuencial.
> 
> 2. El número personal será el identificador del extranjero, que deberá figurar en todos los documentos que se le expidan o tramiten, así como en las diligencias que se estampen en su pasaporte o documento análogo, salvo en los visados.
> 
> 3. El número de identidad del extranjero, NIE, deberá ser concedido de oficio, por la Dirección General de la Policía y de la Guardia Civil, en los supuestos mencionados en el apartado 1, salvo en el caso de los extranjeros que se relacionen con España por razón de sus intereses económicos, profesionales o sociales, que deberán interesar de dicho órgano la asignación del indicado número, siempre que concurran los siguientes requisitos:
> 
> a) Que no se encuentren en España en situación irregular.
> 
> b) Que se comuniquen los motivos por los que solicitan la asignación de dicho número.
> 
> Los extranjeros que se relacionen con España por razón de sus intereses económicos, profesionales o sociales podrán solicitar personalmente el NIE a la Dirección General de la Policía y de la Guardia Civil, directamente o a través de las Oficinas de Extranjería o Comisarías de policía. En el caso de que el extranjero no se encuentre en territorio español en el momento de la solicitud, solicitará la asignación de NIE a la Comisaría General de Extranjería y Fronteras, a través de las Oficinas Consulares de España en el exterior.
> 
> El procedimiento habrá de ser resuelto en el plazo máximo de cinco días desde la entrada de la solicitud en el registro del órgano competente para su tramitación.
> 
> 4. Lo dispuesto en el apartado anterior será también de aplicación para la solicitud de los certificados de residente y de no residente.



regards

Steve


----------



## karunaji

Hi - sorry I cannot be more specific - but from my experiences in Hungary as a teacher - If you are being legally employed through the department of education and science or its equivalent, then the school or educational institution with whom you have the contract should help you sort this out. 

Get on to them and get them to help you. It is not normal that you should have to battle your way through this without any help.

Good luck

saci


----------



## xabiaxica

karunaji said:


> Hi - sorry I cannot be more specific - but from my experiences in Hungary as a teacher - If you are being legally employed through the department of education and science or its equivalent, then the school or educational institution with whom you have the contract should help you sort this out.
> 
> Get on to them and get them to help you. It is not normal that you should have to battle your way through this without any help.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> saci


is your reply for dijiste??


yes, they might well help - but it's really so simple they don't really need to - and why not get started with the form-filling early - there will plenty more when s/he gets here!!


----------



## anles

jojo said:


> it is a bit of a marathon isnt it. We do go thru it every now and again, but Spain does change things frequently and not just rules, but areas are different too.
> 
> However, I can tell you that you can get an NIE number without an address (and you can rent a property without an NIE number). You go to the foreigners office and - well take it from there, some will do it straight away, others will give you an appointment. TOP TIP: take photo copies of everything you have thats vaguely official - passport, UK address, birth certificate, contract of employment ! You can open a non residents bank account (again take those photocopies), which you can change to resident once you have an address.
> 
> Once you have your NIE number and an address, you will need to get a social security number! So you need to locate your local employment office INEM office and..... take photo copies of everything, including your NIE number/residencia
> 
> Jo xxx


It is not necessary for you to get a Social Security number, your employer has to fill in a form to register you as employed (Modelo TA.2), if you don't have a Social Security number because you have never previously worked in Spain, your employer has to apply for this too (Modelo TA.1).


----------



## dijiste

Hi All

Btw, I am a she. I would like to say I'm a lady but that may be pushing it a bit!

Xabiachica - you're right - it is simple and I'm pretty sure they're not the only forms I will have to fill in. 

I arrived in Tudela late last night/this morning, following a two hour delay at Bristol airport and the last coach from Barcelona being full, leading me to having to pay 3 times as much for the Trenhotel!

Anyway, I'm more than happy to be here, it's a beautiful place. 

Before I arrived I contacted an estate agent about possible places to live. After a bit of back and forth, I arranged to go there today and they would show me some places. Originally it was five but some had gone and I only saw two, both of which I would have been happy to live in.

Which brings me to my point. I chose one of them and said can I have it. They said of course, no problem. Couldn't believe it was so easy, I have no employment contract yet from gobierno de navarra. No problem. When it got to the point of signing the contract they picked up the fact that I don't have a Spanish bank account number or an NIE, both of which they needed. So they sent me to get them.

They said get NIE first because you will need it to open your bank account. I went there and there was NOBODY there to get one except me. They just did it on the spot. He sent me off with my form to the bank, which took me for ever. I was a bit confused because he was speaking so quickly and, in typical spanish fashion, he said "a pagar" and shoved me out the door! Even though it was about time to close he said I could come back to the window and he would let me in even though they were closed. Which he did. I was well impressed. 

So to cut a long story short, I am very pleased with the way I've been treated here. No problems at all. In every way it's been efficient and easy. Though I would say that, even though my Spanish is not fluent, the fact that I have used it the whole time has probably helped.

Thank you all for your help and advice.


----------



## Guest

You, my amiga, have witnessed a miracle.


Congratulations!!!!!!


----------



## dijiste

halydia said:


> You, my amiga, have witnessed a miracle.
> 
> 
> Congratulations!!!!!!


Thank you. I think I must have caught them on a good day!


----------



## leavingclayton

Many thanks for the reply received regarding the NIE and Padron .The information was just what we needed


----------



## gabriele

*That's what I love about Spain- People's heart*

Indeed, there are Spaniards which really have a big heart or go out of their way to help. That's so rare in Northern Europe to such an extent. 
It makes life worth living. Doesn't it? 








dijiste said:


> Hi All
> 
> Btw, I am a she. I would like to say I'm a lady but that may be pushing it a bit!
> 
> Xabiachica - you're right - it is simple and I'm pretty sure they're not the only forms I will have to fill in.
> 
> I arrived in Tudela late last night/this morning, following a two hour delay at Bristol airport and the last coach from Barcelona being full, leading me to having to pay 3 times as much for the Trenhotel!
> 
> Anyway, I'm more than happy to be here, it's a beautiful place.
> 
> Before I arrived I contacted an estate agent about possible places to live. After a bit of back and forth, I arranged to go there today and they would show me some places. Originally it was five but some had gone and I only saw two, both of which I would have been happy to live in.
> 
> Which brings me to my point. I chose one of them and said can I have it. They said of course, no problem. Couldn't believe it was so easy, I have no employment contract yet from gobierno de navarra. No problem. When it got to the point of signing the contract they picked up the fact that I don't have a Spanish bank account number or an NIE, both of which they needed. So they sent me to get them.
> 
> They said get NIE first because you will need it to open your bank account. I went there and there was NOBODY there to get one except me. They just did it on the spot. He sent me off with my form to the bank, which took me for ever. I was a bit confused because he was speaking so quickly and, in typical spanish fashion, he said "a pagar" and shoved me out the door! Even though it was about time to close he said I could come back to the window and he would let me in even though they were closed. Which he did. I was well impressed.
> 
> So to cut a long story short, I am very pleased with the way I've been treated here. No problems at all. In every way it's been efficient and easy. Though I would say that, even though my Spanish is not fluent, the fact that I have used it the whole time has probably helped.
> 
> Thank you all for your help and advice.


----------



## dijiste

gabriele said:


> Indeed, there are Spaniards which really have a big heart or go out of their way to help. That's so rare in Northern Europe to such an extent.
> It makes life worth living. Doesn't it?


Hi gabriele. Yes, I couldn't agree more. I've been extremely impressed with how pleasant the Spanish people are here in Navarra, with very few exceptions.

It's not always this way in my own country!


----------



## baldilocks

dijiste said:


> Thank you all for your help and advice.


That's the reason we are on here. We get our pleasure from hearing the stories of your success and happiness.


----------



## Debmand

What no. Is it for both nie and resident is it ex16?


----------



## xabiaxica

Debmand said:


> What no. Is it for both nie and resident is it ex16?


EX18 - it changed in July - there's a ink for the form on the 'useful links' sticky


----------



## myra ceclia

*Resident Status*

Depending on which country you are from. One has a choice about taking up resident status in Spain. Please note that there are various types of residency. Fiscal or non fiscal being one. Non domiciled also. What you do need to work or carry out any type of business including opening a bank account is your NIE number. You have to know what your situation will be before taking out residency.


----------



## Stravinsky

myra ceclia said:


> Depending on which country you are from. One has a choice about taking up resident status in Spain. Please note that there are various types of residency. Fiscal or non fiscal being one. Non domiciled also. What you do need to work or carry out any type of business including opening a bank account is your NIE number. You have to know what your situation will be before taking out residency.


Please try not to confuse people. I guess you are talking about *non *EU residents ... for EU residents you have a right to reside wherever you want to within Europe .... theoretically  , it is simply a case of signing on to the list of foreigners


----------



## jojo

myra ceclia said:


> Depending on which country you are from. One has a choice about taking up resident status in Spain. Please note that there are various types of residency. Fiscal or non fiscal being one. Non domiciled also. What you do need to work or carry out any type of business including opening a bank account is your NIE number. You have to know what your situation will be before taking out residency.


An EU citizen has to have an NIE/residencia which in the Malaga region comes on the same certificate and you actually have to ask NOT to have the residencia if you dont want it - apart from that its straight forward. You then see a gestoria if you wish to start a business to become an "autonomo. You can open a bank account (a non residence account) with just your passport and once you live here you then take your NIE/residencia certificate and they bank change your account to that of a resident

It isnt difficult if you are an EU resident

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> An EU citizen has to have an NIE/residencia which in the Malaga region comes on the same certificate and you actually have to ask NOT to have the residencia if you dont want it - apart from that its straight forward. You then see a gestoria if you wish to start a business to become an "autonomo. You can open a bank account (a non residence account) with just your passport and once you live here you then take your NIE/residencia certificate and they bank change your account to that of a resident
> 
> It isnt difficult if you are an EU resident
> 
> Jo xxx


isn't it also the case that non-EU citizens have a time limit (usually 90 days?) on how long they can stay here, and they have to apply for a resident/long stay visa from their 'home' country before they come, if they want to stay longer than that


----------



## SarahW

*registering in Spain*



Peter & Fiona said:


> So.... How long do you have to be there before you register?
> We are planning to come over in June until the end of October to sing. Do we need to regester?
> 
> We plan on coming back to the UK for November and December, then going back to Spain to live permenantly then.


Hi - we've just moved from Portugal to Spain (Madrid) and I was wodnering what to do. We'll likely now only be here 6 months so am wondering if it is worth the hassle? If our experience in Cascais is anything to compare then it may take months anyway?!

Any thought people - we're not registering a car and only renting for a while. Is access to healthcare an issue? I guess we may be able to wing it using our UK EU Healthcards??

Obrigada / Gracias

SW


----------



## baldilocks

SarahW said:


> Hi - we've just moved from Portugal to Spain (Madrid) and I was wodnering what to do. We'll likely now only be here 6 months so am wondering if it is worth the hassle? If our experience in Cascais is anything to compare then it may take months anyway?!
> 
> Any thought people - we're not registering a car and only renting for a while. Is access to healthcare an issue? I guess we may be able to wing it using our UK EU Healthcards??
> 
> Obrigada / Gracias
> 
> SW


1. You cannot use your EHIC if you are _residing_ in Spain. Healthcare here is on a contributory basis not on a residence basis - you don't pay (or someone is paying for you) you don't get it.

2. Over 90 days you must register as a resident

Why do people like you think you have a right to cheat the system? If you were back where you came from, you would be quite incensed if some foreigner tried to do it there, so why try to do it here?


----------



## Happyexpat

*And another thing*



baldilocks said:


> 1. You cannot use your EHIC if you are _residing_ in Spain. Healthcare here is on a contributory basis not on a residence basis - you don't pay (or someone is paying for you) you don't get it.
> 
> 2. Over 90 days you must register as a resident
> 
> Why do people like you think you have a right to cheat the system? If you were back where you came from, you would be quite incensed if some foreigner tried to do it there, so why try to do it here?


Totally agree! Mind you if they are 'working' over here then they will be in the system and thus covered for health care......or do the words 'on the black' spring to mind.


----------



## CondadoJohn

*NIE in Edinburgh*



xabiachica said:


> is your reply for dijiste??
> 
> 
> yes, they might well help - but it's really so simple they don't really need to - and why not get started with the form-filling early - there will plenty more when s/he gets here!!


Hi all, I thought that I would try to apply for an NIE at the Edinburgh Consulate when we next visit my eldest DD who has lived in Edinburgh since she left home to go to university.

I have had a look at filling in the attached form EX15.

This is the form for applying for an NIE without registering as an extranjero, i.e. getting an NIE without being resident in Spain.

There is no place to put your UK address, I thought it should have been in section 3.

Section 4.1 I take it that I just check the box for NIE and leave certificado blank.
Section 4.2 por intereses sociales, Comprar una casa en España
section 4.3 Oficina consular
Section 4.4 Estancia and Consiento

So so far I have filled in section 1 apart from a Spanish address and the legal representative, and section 4, the rest is blank. This can't be correct surely?
Attached Files
NIE Form EX15.pdf (179.4 KB, 4 views)



Hi,
I've just been to the Consulate in Edinburgh and followed the advice above. after waiting over an hour, we met a lovely woman called Adela Perez.

To update the above information:
Section 1 should include the UK address if you want the NIE sent there. Include the same details in this section as you have on your passport - e.g. place of birth 'Wolverhampton' or whatever. The process may take up to 3 months? 
Section 4.1 Just check the box for NIE and leave certificado blank.
Section 4.2 Tick 'por intereses sociales', and write 'Comprar una casa en España'
section 4.3 Tick Oficina consular
Section 4.4 Tick Estancia and Consiento

They do send all the mail to MAdrid via internal post so there will be two week wait before the completed form is sent out. 

We had a pre-addressed envelope for:
Comisaria General De Extranjeria y Documentation,
Direccion General De Policia
Calle General Pardinas No. 90
28006
Madrid, Espana

You no longer need two passport photographs.

You do need a colour photocopy of your passport, and the passport itself for verification.

The cost of the form is £8.00 for each one completed.

We had completed the online pdf wrongly but Adela helped us complete a new one.

All in all a relatively easy process.


----------



## gabriele

*NIE Spain application at consulate*



CondadoJohn said:


> Hi all, I thought that I would try to apply for an NIE at the Edinburgh Consulate when we next visit my eldest DD who has lived in Edinburgh since she left home to go to university.
> 
> I have had a look at filling in the attached form EX15.
> 
> This is the form for applying for an NIE without registering as an extranjero, i.e. getting an NIE without being resident in Spain.
> 
> There is no place to put your UK address, I thought it should have been in section 3.
> 
> Section 4.1 I take it that I just check the box for NIE and leave certificado blank.
> Section 4.2 por intereses sociales, Comprar una casa en España
> section 4.3 Oficina consular
> Section 4.4 Estancia and Consiento
> 
> So so far I have filled in section 1 apart from a Spanish address and the legal representative, and section 4, the rest is blank. This can't be correct surely?
> Attached Files
> NIE Form EX15.pdf (179.4 KB, 4 views)
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I've just been to the Consulate in Edinburgh and followed the advice above. after waiting over an hour, we met a lovely woman called Adela Perez.
> 
> To update the above information:
> Section 1 should include the UK address if you want the NIE sent there. Include the same details in this section as you have on your passport - e.g. place of birth 'Wolverhampton' or whatever. The process may take up to 3 months?
> Section 4.1 Just check the box for NIE and leave certificado blank.
> Section 4.2 Tick 'por intereses sociales', and write 'Comprar una casa en España'
> section 4.3 Tick Oficina consular
> Section 4.4 Tick Estancia and Consiento
> 
> They do send all the mail to MAdrid via internal post so there will be two week wait before the completed form is sent out.
> 
> We had a pre-addressed envelope for:
> Comisaria General De Extranjeria y Documentation,
> Direccion General De Policia
> Calle General Pardinas No. 90
> 28006
> Madrid, Espana
> 
> You no longer need two passport photographs.
> 
> You do need a colour photocopy of your passport, and the passport itself for verification.
> 
> The cost of the form is £8.00 for each one completed.
> 
> We had completed the online pdf wrongly but Adela helped us complete a new one.
> 
> All in all a relatively easy process.


You are to be congratulated to see the NIE application process as something easy. Everything is easy when we find a bit of the right help. 
Those people in consulates are generally very patient and helpful. It's worth it to go there, unless you have all the time of the world to tackle applications in Spain all by yourself.
It's good to hear that some people are trying to buy some property in Spain. 
I just met a Scottish gentleman in my suburb here in Tenerife. I never knew that the man is 90 years old. He doesn't look his age. He has been living in a rented place here in La Longuera Tenerife for donkeys' years. He would have saved lots of mony during all that time, if he had bought some place for himself. So did his friend Alan from Manchester. But Alan passed away, unfortunately. Alan, only spent winters in Tenerife. He had done so for 25 years.


----------



## stevesainty

*We Got Our NIE's !!!*

On 16th December we visited the Spanish Consulate in Edinburgh. A wonderful Spanish lady called Adela Perez completed the forms for our applications for NIE's we paid her the fee of £8.00 each and she then forwarded them to Madrid via the Diplomatic Courier.

Today two brand spanking new NIE numbers landed on our doormat. We were told that it could take up to three months but here we are forty three days later . What a surprise!! 

We will celebrate tonight with a glass one of our favourite Spanish tipples, licor cuarenta y tres con hielo. Coincidentaly the same number of days it took to process our application.


----------



## CondadoJohn

*NIE in Edinburgh*



stevesainty said:


> On 16th December we visited the Spanish Consulate in Edinburgh. A wonderful Spanish lady called Adela Perez completed the forms for our applications for NIE's we paid her the fee of £8.00 each and she then forwarded them to Madrid via the Diplomatic Courier.
> 
> Today two brand spanking new NIE numbers landed on our doormat. We were told that it could take up to three months but here we are forty three days later . What a surprise!!
> 
> We will celebrate tonight with a glass one of our favourite Spanish tipples, licor cuarenta y tres con hielo. Coincidentaly the same number of days it took to process our application.


Hi,
We completed ours via Adela Perez on 19th December. She told us that the diplomatic courier post wouldn't be taken over until January 4th? The NIE's arrived yesterday (January 30th). We are well impressed. A day out in chilly Edinburgh was far more preferable to sitting in the chaos of Cartagena Police Station.
CondadoJohn


----------



## Veronica

stevesainty said:


> On 16th December we visited the Spanish Consulate in Edinburgh. A wonderful Spanish lady called Adela Perez completed the forms for our applications for NIE's we paid her the fee of £8.00 each and she then forwarded them to Madrid via the Diplomatic Courier.
> 
> Today two brand spanking new NIE numbers landed on our doormat. We were told that it could take up to three months but here we are forty three days later . What a surprise!!
> 
> We will celebrate tonight with a glass one of our favourite Spanish tipples, licor cuarenta y tres con hielo. Coincidentaly the same number of days it took to process our application.


Oh Yummy, giving me cuarenta y tres is like giving a donkey strawberries
I adore the stuff but can't get it here in Cyprus


----------



## jeavera12

*process for residency*

Hi, I am in Andalucía as an Auxiliary. I have reapplied for another year through the Ministry of Education. I am 51 years of age and I receive a small pension of $650 monthly from the US. I would like to apply for residency and to stay for at least a couple more years. What is the process for applying for residency in my case since I am already in Spain?


----------



## Stravinsky

jeavera12 said:


> Hi, I am in Andalucía as an Auxiliary. I have reapplied for another year through the Ministry of Education. I am 51 years of age and I receive a small pension of $650 monthly from the US. I would like to apply for residency and to stay for at least a couple more years. What is the process for applying for residency in my case since I am already in Spain?


Well I must admit I am not an expert in non EU person immigration, but as far as I understand it you will need a visa to stay here, and you will need to be sponsorship. On what basis are you here now, as a US government employee?


----------



## jeavera12

Not an government employee I am here on a Grant paid by the Junta de Andalucia.
I first applied for a student visa stateside at the embassy of Spain in LA. When I arrived in Spain I applied for my NIE in Jaen. I have my card it expires on May 31st when my grant expires. I was told the process to renew my NIE would be easier while I am still in Spain.


----------



## jojo

jeavera12 said:


> Not an government employee I am here on a Grant paid by the Junta de Andalucia.
> I first applied for a student visa stateside at the embassy of Spain in LA. When I arrived in Spain I applied for my NIE in Jaen. I have my card it expires on May 31st when my grant expires. I was told the process to renew my NIE would be easier while I am still in Spain.


 I didnt think NIEs expire as such. What about your visa tho, isnt that the important one????

Jo xxx


----------



## xicoalc

Changing the subject a little but sort of on topic.. a client of mine (who does sometimes get things wrong) said that her friend just applied for an NIE and got a card not a green paper. Has anyone else come across this? Can we finally change our nasty pieces of green paper for a plastic thing? Or have I just heard a stupid rumour that is completely false and will leave my dreams and hopes yet again dashed and broken?


----------



## snikpoh

steve_in_spain said:


> Changing the subject a little but sort of on topic.. a client of mine (who does sometimes get things wrong) said that her friend just applied for an NIE and got a card not a green paper. Has anyone else come across this? Can we finally change our nasty pieces of green paper for a plastic thing? Or have I just heard a stupid rumour that is completely false and will leave my dreams and hopes yet again dashed and broken?


In some areas, they have realized the stupidity of issuing A4 sheets of paper and now issue much smaller versions (may even be card size, I don't know).

These 'new' ones, whilst easier to carry, are still useless as they can not be used as proof of identity.

Best solution is still to get a Spanish driving licence - has photo on, has NIE on and is legal proof of ID.


----------



## xicoalc

snikpoh said:


> In some areas, they have realized the stupidity of issuing A4 sheets of paper and now issue much smaller versions (may even be card size, I don't know).
> 
> These 'new' ones, whilst easier to carry, are still useless as they can not be used as proof of identity.
> 
> Best solution is still to get a Spanish driving licence - has photo on, has NIE on and is legal proof of ID.


Thats my next thing... the only think i have not done but ufff... i am told it cn take months and I need a photo card as i rent cars in the UK so often! I keep putting it off!


----------



## Stravinsky

jeavera12 said:


> Not an government employee I am here on a Grant paid by the Junta de Andalucia.
> I first applied for a student visa stateside at the embassy of Spain in LA. When I arrived in Spain I applied for my NIE in Jaen. I have my card it expires on May 31st when my grant expires. I was told the process to renew my NIE would be easier while I am still in Spain.


An NIE number doent usually expire ... one you have one its there for life, even if you leave Spain and then return.
The point is, as a non EU citizen you dont have automatic rights to be here, so I am assuming that when your arrangement finishes it will be expected that you will either leave or have a visa of some kind in force. NIE isnt what you call residencia, it is mainly just a tax identifier


----------



## xgarb

I got my Certificado De Registro and NIE number in Motril, Granada today. Here's how I did it:

Arrived at the Comisaría Local de Motril (Ronda del mediodía S/N - Big white building) at about 11.
Spanish lady pointed out the desks for this department (in front as you go in).
Sat down with the funcionario who typed all the details in from my pre-filled form (http://extranjeros.meyss.es/es/Mode...es2/18-Certificado_Residencia_comunitaria.pdf)
Told to go the bank to pay
Returned after payment and given a green credit-card sized registration certificate.
Total time - 1 hour!

I was asked if I had photos and just said firmly 'no' and the funcionario left it at that. I saw someone else giving a finger print but this might have for something different. I had two pre-filled copies of the form and a photocopy of my passport.

Also the first bank I went to (Banco de Granada I think) couldn't process the payment, possibly because the NIE was new and didn't appear on their computers. I remember reading about others having to try various banks so walked to Allianz Sabadell and it worked there.

Easy when you've done it!


----------



## Stravinsky

xgarb said:


> I got my Certificado De Registro and NIE number in Motril, Granada today. Here's how I did it:
> 
> Arrived at the Comisaría Local de Motril (Ronda del mediodía S/N - Big white building) at about 11.
> Spanish lady pointed out the desks for this department (in front as you go in).
> Sat down with the funcionario who typed all the details in from my pre-filled form (http://extranjeros.meyss.es/es/Mode...es2/18-Certificado_Residencia_comunitaria.pdf)
> Told to go the bank to pay
> Returned after payment and given a green credit-card sized registration certificate.
> Total time - 1 hour!
> 
> I was asked if I had photos and just said firmly 'no' and the funcionario left it at that. I saw someone else giving a finger print but this might have for something different. I had two pre-filled copies of the form and a photocopy of my passport.
> 
> Also the first bank I went to (Banco de Granada I think) couldn't process the payment, possibly because the NIE was new and didn't appear on their computers. I remember reading about others having to try various banks so walked to Allianz Sabadell and it worked there.
> 
> Easy when you've done it!


Well done .... however you have to bear in mind things differ considerably from place to place.

For instance in Gandia you have to go one morning to queue for a ticket for the following morning. They only process so many tickets a day, so they only give out that number. You can arrive at 7 in the morning and there is already a queue.

Then, when you get there the following morning you sit and wait .... in the number queue .... sometimes for 3 hours or so. Then in essence the system is the same.


----------



## JTapas

I posted this in another thread, but thought i'd do it again on this one in the hope of reaching even more potential samaritans, considering that I am absolutely desperate for answers!


I'm from the UK and have been working in Andalucia for 18 months over the last two years and have held an NIE number which I have never had to change despite moving from Cadiz to Granada last September. However, at some point during this move, I must have mislayed the original copy of my NIE certificate (the A4 sized green piece of paper rather than the neat little card that a few lucky ones seem to have). I realized this soon afterward and although I knew I would have to replace it, I wasn't too alarmed at the time because my photocopy seemed to suffice in any case that I needed to present the certificate.

Now, as an Engish Teacher I will not be employed this summer and had planned to claim el paro (dole). Most will know that in order to do this you absolutely have to have an original copy of the NIE. This occured to me about three months ago so I decided to get the ball rolling. The ball, however, has rolled so painfully slowly that I now find myself at the end of my 9-month contract still without an actual NIE certificate.

I've been pinged about countless offices all over Granada, having been instructed to pay this, obtain that, take that there blah blah you get the picture. Two and a half months down the line I finally have everything in order and take the lot with me to la oficina de extranjero...only to be told that because of some law that is currently undergoing 'change', the administration of NIEs, whether brand new or simply duplicates, is now unpermitted. They told me to go to la oficina del empleo to ask for a 'written NIE', of which I was very dubious, in order to be able to claim dole. Of course, upon my arrival, the utterly disinterested woman staring back at me over her desk gives me that sort of 'what the hell are you on about and what do you expect me to do about it?' look.

I think I want to cry. Please help me somebody


----------



## Pesky Wesky

JTapas said:


> I posted this in another thread, but thought i'd do it again on this one in the hope of reaching even more potential samaritans, considering that I am absolutely desperate for answers!
> 
> 
> I'm from the UK and have been working in Andalucia for 18 months over the last two years and have held an NIE number which I have never had to change despite moving from Cadiz to Granada last September. However, at some point during this move, I must have mislayed the original copy of my NIE certificate (the A4 sized green piece of paper rather than the neat little card that a few lucky ones seem to have). I realized this soon afterward and although I knew I would have to replace it, I wasn't too alarmed at the time because my photocopy seemed to suffice in any case that I needed to present the certificate.
> 
> Now, as an Engish Teacher I will not be employed this summer and had planned to claim el paro (dole). Most will know that in order to do this you absolutely have to have an original copy of the NIE. This occured to me about three months ago so I decided to get the ball rolling. The ball, however, has rolled so painfully slowly that I now find myself at the end of my 9-month contract still without an actual NIE certificate.
> 
> I've been pinged about countless offices all over Granada, having been instructed to pay this, obtain that, take that there blah blah you get the picture. Two and a half months down the line I finally have everything in order and take the lot with me to la oficina de extranjero...only to be told that because of some law that is currently undergoing 'change', the administration of NIEs, whether brand new or simply duplicates, is now unpermitted. They told me to go to la oficina del empleo to ask for a 'written NIE', of which I was very dubious, in order to be able to claim dole. Of course, upon my arrival, the utterly disinterested woman staring back at me over her desk gives me that sort of 'what the hell are you on about and what do you expect me to do about it?' look.
> 
> I think I want to cry. Please help me somebody


I'm really sorry to hear you've found it so difficult to get the NIE. I don't think I've ever heard of it being so difficult. In the past, all you had to do was fill in a form (to be found in the sticky at the top of the page called forms, education, cars..., post number 1) and take it to a police station with extranjería department...
You're right, the law is changing now and everything's topsy turvy as you can see from some of the threads here.
However, I have to tell you that I don't think you're eligible for unemployment benefit as you need to have worked for 12 months (not necessarily in a row) before being able to claim. Is this your case???
Look at this
*Qué requisitos hay que cumplir*

Además de perder el empleo de forma definitiva o temporal, para tener derecho a la prestación por desempleo hay que cumplir otros requisitos. Son éstos: 


*Estar afiliado y en situación de alta o asimilada al alta en la Seguridad Social* en un régimen que contemple la contingencia por desempleo.
*Encontrarse en situación legal de desempleo* y acreditar disponibilidad para buscar trabajo activamente y para aceptar una colocación adecuada.
*Haber cotizado a la Seguridad Social durante un período de al menos doce meses*. No es necesario haber trabajado doce meses seguidos, sino doce meses en total durante los seis años anteriores al momento de perder el empleo.
*No haber cumplido la edad que da derecho a la pensión de jubilación*.
Taken from here

http://www.laboris.net/static/ca_derechos_cobrar-paro.aspx

Aren't your employers helping?


----------



## JTapas

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm really sorry to hear you've found it so difficult to get the NIE. I don't think I've ever heard of it being so difficult. In the past, all you had to do was fill in a form (to be found in the sticky at the top of the page called forms, education, cars..., post number 1) and take it to a police station with extranjería department...
> You're right, the law is changing now and everything's topsy turvy as you can see from some of the threads here.
> However, I have to tell you that I don't think you're eligible for unemployment benefit as you need to have worked for 12 months (not necessarily in a row) before being able to claim. Is this your case???
> Look at this
> *Qué requisitos hay que cumplir*
> 
> Además de perder el empleo de forma definitiva o temporal, para tener derecho a la prestación por desempleo hay que cumplir otros requisitos. Son éstos:
> 
> 
> *Estar afiliado y en situación de alta o asimilada al alta en la Seguridad Social* en un régimen que contemple la contingencia por desempleo.
> *Encontrarse en situación legal de desempleo* y acreditar disponibilidad para buscar trabajo activamente y para aceptar una colocación adecuada.
> *Haber cotizado a la Seguridad Social durante un período de al menos doce meses*. No es necesario haber trabajado doce meses seguidos, sino doce meses en total durante los seis años anteriores al momento de perder el empleo.
> *No haber cumplido la edad que da derecho a la pensión de jubilación*.
> Taken from here
> 
> 
> Aren't your employers helping?


Hi. Thanks for replying. I worked for nine months in Cadiz Oct 2010-June 2011 for a different company. So with those months combined with this year's, claiming shouldn't be a problem. I just have to get this damn duplicate!

A colleague has been with me a couple of times to help clarify certain things that just go way over my head in Spanish, so I know that there has been no misunderstanding. I'm going back tomorrow morning and I intend to be a little more assertive this time! Can't help but feel like it's going to be just another morning of brick-wall head-banging though...


----------



## snikpoh

JTapas said:


> I posted this in another thread, but thought i'd do it again on this one in the hope of reaching even more potential samaritans, considering that I am absolutely desperate for answers!
> 
> 
> I'm from the UK and have been working in Andalucia for 18 months over the last two years and have held an NIE number which I have never had to change despite moving from Cadiz to Granada last September. However, at some point during this move, I must have mislayed the original copy of my NIE certificate (the A4 sized green piece of paper rather than the neat little card that a few lucky ones seem to have). I realized this soon afterward and although I knew I would have to replace it, I wasn't too alarmed at the time because my photocopy seemed to suffice in any case that I needed to present the certificate.
> 
> Now, as an Engish Teacher I will not be employed this summer and had planned to claim el paro (dole). Most will know that in order to do this you absolutely have to have an original copy of the NIE. This occured to me about three months ago so I decided to get the ball rolling. The ball, however, has rolled so painfully slowly that I now find myself at the end of my 9-month contract still without an actual NIE certificate.
> 
> I've been pinged about countless offices all over Granada, having been instructed to pay this, obtain that, take that there blah blah you get the picture. Two and a half months down the line I finally have everything in order and take the lot with me to la oficina de extranjero...only to be told that because of some law that is currently undergoing 'change', the administration of NIEs, whether brand new or simply duplicates, is now unpermitted. They told me to go to la oficina del empleo to ask for a 'written NIE', of which I was very dubious, in order to be able to claim dole. Of course, upon my arrival, the utterly disinterested woman staring back at me over her desk gives me that sort of 'what the hell are you on about and what do you expect me to do about it?' look.
> 
> I think I want to cry. Please help me somebody




I think we should make it clear to all that might read this thread - getting an NIE is simple and you have one.

What is not so simple is getting the 'residencia' (green sheet).



So, my question is, do you need a residencia or just an NIE to get a job? If it's just an NIE, then it should be fairly straight forward to get a replacement copy of your existing one - provided you ask the correct question at the correct place. This has NOTHING to do with being a foreigner.

If, however, you do need a (green) residencia, then yes, this is hard at the moment.


----------



## jojo

JTapas said:


> Hi. Thanks for replying. I worked for nine months in Cadiz Oct 2010-June 2011 for a different company. So with those months combined with this year's, claiming shouldn't be a problem. I just have to get this damn duplicate!
> 
> A colleague has been with me a couple of times to help clarify certain things that just go way over my head in Spanish, so I know that there has been no misunderstanding. I'm going back tomorrow morning and I intend to be a little more assertive this time! Can't help but feel like it's going to be just another morning of brick-wall head-banging though...


I know things may have changed, but a couple of years ago I lost my residencia/NIE. I first had to go to the police to report it officially stolen (it wasnt but...) Once the police had given me an official incident number, I then had to go to the NIE office and they simply reprinted my green form, I also had to change my address on it, so they did that too.

I've made that sound so simple havent I - *IT WASN'T!!* I cried, I argued, I went from pillar to post, I even had a tantrum, it took two weeks, but I eventually got it lol!!! "I feel your pain" as they say!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## JTapas

jojo said:


> I know things may have changed, but a couple of years ago I lost my residencia/NIE. I first had to go to the police to report it officially stolen (it wasnt but...) Once the police had given me an official incident number, I then had to go to the NIE office and they simply reprinted my green form, I also had to change my address on it, so they did that too.
> 
> I've made that sound so simple havent I - *IT WASN'T!!* I cried, I argued, I went from pillar to post, I even had a tantrum, it took two weeks, but I eventually got it lol!!! "I feel your pain" as they say!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


So I went back to la oficina de extranjero and was told exactly the same thing, although this time I was told to request an 'INEM' which they said was a three-month residency document which will do as a temporary replacement for the official NIE, or something? However she then added that to grant INEMs in circumstances such as these is purely at their discretion, and that I would essentially have to go in and just say 'please' a few times.

Fortunately it seemed to work! When I went to la oficina del empleo they understood the situation a bit better now that they actually knew what it was that I was requesting. They said that I should come back with a photocopy of my passport and all other relevant documents (in check!) and they'll it ready for me by next week!

Persistence certainly does pay off!


----------



## LizM

Hi, New to the forum but have lived in Sevilla for two years now. We have our NIEs and have recently changed our address with the city hall. We don't have anything called a 'Residency Permit', what is it and do we need it?? Sorry to sound dumb but I thought we had done everything needed. Thanks.


----------



## snikpoh

LizM said:


> Hi, New to the forum but have lived in Sevilla for two years now. We have our NIEs and have recently changed our address with the city hall. We don't have anything called a 'Residency Permit', what is it and do we need it?? Sorry to sound dumb but I thought we had done everything needed. Thanks.


After 90 days of living in Spain, you are required to sign on the 'list of foreigners' this is sometimes referred to as having a 'residencia'.

This was a green sheet of paper having your NIE printed on it along with other 'stuff'. In some areas, this is now a laminated piece of paper about the size of a credit card.

So, if you search this site for the word 'residencia' and/or forms EX18 and EX19, you should get all the help you need.


----------



## Stravinsky

LizM said:


> Hi, New to the forum but have lived in Sevilla for two years now. We have our NIEs and have recently changed our address with the city hall. We don't have anything called a 'Residency Permit', what is it and do we need it?? Sorry to sound dumb but I thought we had done everything needed. Thanks.


In some areas now you cant do many things without signing on the foreigners register (also known as residency). Registering cars, signing on with a doctor etc etc, and if you havent done it before you may well have to prove your income to get it now


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## LizM

Thanks for replying but I am still confused. We have our 'Padrons' and the green sheet from the police with our NIEs on it. As pensioners we have our health cards and have been accepted into the Spanish National Health scheme. Is there something else? what does it look like? where do we get it? Sorry about this.


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## xabiaxica

LizM said:


> Thanks for replying but I am still confused. We have our 'Padrons' and the green sheet from the police with our NIEs on it. As pensioners we have our health cards and have been accepted into the Spanish National Health scheme. Is there something else? what does it look like? where do we get it? Sorry about this.


no, there's nothing else

the green A4 sheet with your NIE on it is your resident registration certificate


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## elkoay

hi there, my future spouse who is French is currently in Spain. I've been reading a few threads and I'm a bit confused. Does he have to get an NIE if he's working freelance or can he apply for residence directly? And how does that affect me when I arrive there to register as a non-EU spouse? 

I've come across bits and pieces of info that aren't updated anymore and it'll be helpful if I could get a better idea of the situation from more recent experiences. 

Muchisima gracias!


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## xabiaxica

elkoay said:


> hi there, my future spouse who is French is currently in Spain. I've been reading a few threads and I'm a bit confused. Does he have to get an NIE if he's working freelance or can he apply for residence directly? And how does that affect me when I arrive there to register as a non-EU spouse?
> 
> I've come across bits and pieces of info that aren't updated anymore and it'll be helpful if I could get a better idea of the situation from more recent experiences.
> 
> Muchisima gracias!



as an EU citizen, if he is in Spain for more than 90 days he is considered to be resident & must register as such - in order to do that he has to prove income & healthcare provision

if he is working freelance he needs to register as self-employed (autónomo) - that will cover the income & healthcare issue


if he doesn't register for any reason then you won't be able to register in Spain as a non-EU spouse


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## ericban

*Thanks for this thread, got our residency sorted*

We have been eagerly reading everything there is in this thread just in case there was a fine point we may have missed.

On Tuesday we decided we had everything, as my first War Pension payment had showed up in our new Spanish Passport bank account. We drove down to Cartagena to look for the National Police Station and get a feel for whether we were going to try to get an interpreter to help us.

We were not surprised to be greeted by around 70 North Africans gathered around a doorway in something loosely resembling a queue.

I approached the policeman standing in front of them and he spoke no English. I whipped out the iPad, turned on the Google Translate App and asked him where to go to register as resident. He pointed to a desk just inside the back door and spoke in 100 miles per hour Spanish, all of which I missed.

The lady there was helpful, but also spoke very little English. What we got from the conversation was "No tickets left, come back tomorrow at 0830 and queue for one". Which made sense from reading this board. As this was only a Recce, we were happy with that.

We arrived at 0815 and there were about 100 North Africans again loosely queueing near the back door. We joined the back, numerous new arrivals just walked in front of us, but I understand that some nationalities just do not queue.

At 0830 on the dot a very stern lady appeared, spoke loudly in maximum speed Spanish, and the policeman shepherded everyone against the wall and into single file. We patiently waited around 15 minutes until it was our turn to approach her, we tried to get a ticket, we were told no, not a good start I thought, I asked her why, she looked blankly at me and spoke in Spanish, so out with Google Translate again and I asked "Ok what do I do now"? We were pointed to the opposite side of the stairs where only 2 people were standing, we went over there and just as we got there another member of staff appeared with a bunch of tickets commencing at number 101, this was apparently the EU citizen queue, but having no direction we were not to know that.

He checked all our paperwork quickly and told us to take a seat, he had limited English, and was also extremely stern.

Our first number was called (we had to take one number each, even though our daughter is only 9). We all got up and he barked "one at a time". This was going to be fun. I went first.

He spoke in Spanish, I looked at him, he said papers, I got everything out of the folder and he tutted loudly. I had them sorted into one pile for each of us but he messed them up by grabbing at things he recognised. He had everything he needed for me then leant forwards and pushed what now resembled a pile of jumbled papers towards me. 

He then questioned my S1 as I was not old enough to be a pensioner. I said "it is OK, I am a War Pensioner", he threw his arms up in the air and spoke to his colleague sitting next to him, he then questioned me about it again. I then said sternly "it is fine" and stared at him in the eyes, I was not leaving without the card. I told him that I have everything I needed right here according to his governments website. In days gone by I would have reacted to his blatantly aggressive moves and mannerisms. I smiled, he looked back and grinned.

He asked me about financial means. I had a letter from my Spanish bank manager explaining in Spanish that my War Pension went into Cajamurcia Bank weekly, he wasn't interested. He picked up my Barclays bank statement from the UK, didn't even look at it, stapled it to my EX18 and gave me a form 790 to fill out. There was a desk behind him with a lady taking payments, he pointed and said "Pay" so I stood up, Payed 10.40 euros and he handed me a small green card. Done!

He then called forward my daughter as his colleague called forward my wife. The paperwork took little longer as he had messed up all their stuff pushing it back at me.

He then asked about school for my daughter. She starts Kings College in September. "Acceptence Letter" he said. I didn't have it. His face lit up in a "got you" type of look. "Get it" he said, "I live 25 miles away" I replied. He said "OK we are open all day".

We left the station with 2 residency cards and my daughters half completed paperwork. I was going to drive us back, drop the girls off and bring back the letter myself. As we walked out of the station my wife noticed an Internet Cafe right outside. She realised she had it on an E-mail from the school. We entered the cafe, used Google Translate to explain that we wanted to forward the e-mail from our iPad to the owners email address and get it printed out. It took 5 minutes and cost us a princely 1 euro.

I walked back into the Police Station and straight up to the clerk who had been dealing with me. He smiled (I will say that again, he smiled!). How did you get it (Oh his English has really come on too). I explained the Internet Cafe, he smiled again, took the letter, read it and gave me the third card.

Total time spent getting them, not including the drive down and back, was 1 hour 40 minutes. Hopefully not everyone else will have to leave and obtain missing stuff though.

What I have learned from the experience:
1. A smile when things are getting heated beats a growl every time.
2. Technology is not my enemy ( I now love the Google Translate iPad App)
3. Keep any documents you may need copies of electronically, you never know when you may need to access them. ( I have now scanned Birth certificates, passports, War pension letters and S1 forms and e-mailed them to my wife and self)
4. Learn Spanish faster (I am currently learning Spanish, but a better grasp on it would have made the process so much easier)
5. Research your task first using the bulletin boards, there are a lot of experienced heads out there willing and able to help. You will at the least have everything you need and feel more informed. (I brought back 2/3 of the paperwork I took. Although the didn't want it, it was there just in case).
EB


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## baldilocks

ericban said:


> Got it - sorted!
> EB


Congrats and well done. 
Sorry I left out most of your *excellent *post since it wasn't necessary for this post and would just make it too too long.


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## 213979

hahaha. 
My first visit to extranjería made me cry. The guy with the greasy hair even went as far as to insult Americans. 

Ever since then, I have fun playing their game. Bring every possible paper they could ask for. Bring three photocopies. Heck, bring a stapler!  (Yes, speaking Spanish is fundamental for surviving extranjería.)


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## gus-lopez

We used Cartegena for our NIE's , years ago. The policeman on the door always used to direct you to the EU queue, although there wasn't really one. Just a coupl of people at a counter. Took us 5 minutes! Aah, the good old days.
I always used to park in the 'staff' car park as the 'out' barrier was broken & there was always a space .lol.

Well done though. You do have to be able to argue politely your side of it otherwise they'll walk all over you. I have friends whose wife is fluent in Spanish but always gets flustered & brow-beaten by them , so I always get dragged in to help.


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## ericban

Thanks for the replies.

We tried to get on the Padron yesterday at Torre Pacheco (our administrative town) and were refused as our Landlord had not put his Tax Details on the Tennancy Agreement. I do not even know what that means and cannot find any reference to it on the FCO or any other website I have referencing Padron, but apparently the Landlord knows what they want and will do it in the next day or two (very efficient of him, day or two! lol).

Gutted, as we took everything we could possibly muster document wise, and all in triplicate as there are 3 of us, and still got turned away.

Unfortunately we need this so that we can apply for our SIP Spanish Healthcare so will have to jump through their hoops to get it.

Onwards and upwards

EB


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## Allie-P

baldilocks said:


> Congrats and well done.
> Sorry I left out most of your *excellent *post since it wasn't necessary for this post and would just make it too too long.




Yes, agreed - I really related to that post.

I was so relieved when we received our Residencias......our policeman was also very stern, with a twinkle in his eye - he laughed uproariously at my passport photo


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## t.w.h

*residency form*

Some where on here there is a residency form that someone as filled in to show how to answer the questions, does any one know where it is?:clap2::clap2:


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## ericban

t.w.h,

I think this is the link you mean.

Form EX18 completion | Knowall's 'Awesome' Almería

Regards
EB


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## baldilocks

ericban said:


> t.w.h,
> 
> I think this is the link you mean.
> 
> Form EX18 completion | Knowall's 'Awesome' Almería
> 
> Regards
> EB


That is an excellent website with lots of information on other subjects - recommend a read.


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## t.w.h

Thank you very much.


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## Megan28

Hi everyone.
I'm looking for some advice since I keep finding conflicting information (and lots of info that doesn't quite fit my situation...)

In Sept. 2012 I got my NIE, which is just one sheet of standard white A4 paper with the number in a box, signed and stamped. Now I didn't have any problems opening a bank account/starting an internet contract/getting a social security number/getting paid, but I am concerned that the paper says "caduca a los tres meses". Obvioulsy three months have long since gone! Did I get the wrong document? I told the people at the comisaría how long I would be in Spain for, they even wanted a copy of my work contract which proves it.

The second problem is that now I am moving community, from Asturias (where all my documents were registered) to Madrid. Will I have issues setting up contracts/banks in Madrid with this paper certificate? Is there something else I ought to apply for?

Many thanks if anyone can help!


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## xabiaxica

Megan28 said:


> Hi everyone.
> I'm looking for some advice since I keep finding conflicting information (and lots of info that doesn't quite fit my situation...)
> 
> In Sept. 2012 I got my NIE, which is just one sheet of standard white A4 paper with the number in a box, signed and stamped. Now I didn't have any problems opening a bank account/starting an internet contract/getting a social security number/getting paid, but I am concerned that the paper says "caduca a los tres meses". Obvioulsy three months have long since gone! Did I get the wrong document? I told the people at the comisaría how long I would be in Spain for, they even wanted a copy of my work contract which proves it.
> 
> The second problem is that now I am moving community, from Asturias (where all my documents were registered) to Madrid. Will I have issues setting up contracts/banks in Madrid with this paper certificate? Is there something else I ought to apply for?
> 
> Many thanks if anyone can help!


:welcome:


you just have a 'non-resident' NIE cert - the actual number is for life but not the cert

I'm guessing that you quite likely have a non-resident bank account too - usually they want a resident cert for a resident bank account, though if your wages are paid into the bank that's probably enough

you really would be best registering as resident & getting a green resident certificate/card once you move - if anyone wants to see proof of your NIE they'll see that the cert has expired & that can cause confusion, since you are resident


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## Megan28

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> 
> you just have a 'non-resident' NIE cert - the actual number is for life but not the cert
> 
> I'm guessing that you quite likely have a non-resident bank account too - usually they want a resident cert for a resident bank account, though if your wages are paid into the bank that's probably enough
> 
> you really would be best registering as resident & getting a green resident certificate/card once you move - if anyone wants to see proof of your NIE they'll see that the cert has expired & that can cause confusion, since you are resident


Thanks so much for your reply.
See the thing is, I was told by my employer to apply for the "cetificado de registro como residente comunitario" by my employer and that is definitely what I asked for - since I showed them paperwork from my employer at the time. Typical Spain I guess, you ask for one thing and get something totally different! And that's why I presumed I had the right thing and just carried on regardless. It's only an issue now that I am moving. (And super annoying since I hear the queues in Madrid are beyond belief).

I've never been asked to provide by NIE certificate before, well at the bank/SS but I showed the white paper i have it it was just fine. But of course this was within the 3 months.

How would I know if my bank account is resident or not? And does that affect anything? Obviously I will need to change the address on the account when I move. 

Thanks again for your help


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## Classified

I think you should go to the nearest police station in Madrid and change your address with them, probably more people speak English, regarding your bank account there is a non-resident rate that they charge, best to go full residencia and take the form to the bank.


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## BarefootDancer

8593rebecca said:


> Hi my hubby and I live in Ginestar and it looks likely to be permanent, we have our NIE numbers, basically, do we need to register as residents of Spain, what is the Padron? Certificate? Do you have a link to the E16 form? Can you help on how to complete it? I understood there are various forms of registration, e.g. permanent, temporary? We need to be sure that whatever we do it will not affect our pension entitlement when it kicks in, in a few years.
> 
> Can you help.



*Hi Rebecca, are you still in Ginestar? I am moving there soon, alone at first then my husband will follow later on. I could really use your advice! 

*


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## Solitude

My campsite will not provide me with letter for padron ,i am stuck with no where to turn to any advice welcome pleeeese


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## snikpoh

Solitude said:


> My campsite will not provide me with letter for padron ,i am stuck with no where to turn to any advice welcome pleeeese


You need residency certificate first - do you have that?

You are presumably paying site fees or similar - do you have a contract for this? If yes, then this can be used for both residency and then padron.


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