# Is Dubai for me - salary, lifestyle etc.?



## cchrys (Jan 2, 2015)

I am a Canadian, work in a large telco here, about $100K/year salary. I am in early 30s and before I turn 35, I want to travel around and experience working in another country. I was thinking of Dubai. I am not sure what salaries in Dubai can I expect and how difficult it would be to find a job there?

Personal situation
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-> Education - Engineering from top-tier university in Canada
-> Experience - 7 years (currently, IT Project Manager for last 3 years, Software Engineer for 4 years prior to that.
-> Salary - $97k to $105k/year, depends on how much bonus each year. Wife earns $36K/yr
-> Family size -> 2 - just wife and me.

Expenses
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Combined we spend about $5,000/month
(housing: $1800, car: $700, groceries: $500, eat-out/entertainment: $1000, shopping: $500, misc bills/travel and unexpected - $500)

And we save roughly $2000/month.

Rest goes in TAXES and deductions!

-------


** So, questions ***

1. How difficult is it to find jobs in Dubai - as IT Project Manager (intermediate)?

2. What kind of salary can I expect for myself? Wife is not to keen on working. She wishes to study (correspondence) and take a break from work for couple of years.
--> I want to make sure I continue to save at-least CAD $2,000 per month though. 

3. Could you name few reputed companies that hire IT Project Manager?


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## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

Best start here

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/dubai-expat-forum-expats-living-dubai/139533-how-find-jobs-dubai-uae-thread.html


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

cchrys said:


> I am a Canadian, work in a large telco here, about $100K/year salary. I am in early 30s and before I turn 35, I want to travel around and experience working in another country. I was thinking of Dubai. I am not sure what salaries in Dubai can I expect and how difficult it would be to find a job there?
> 
> Personal situation
> ----------------------
> ...


Is money your god? Why the Middle East? You realise the cost of living in Dubai is second only to Tokyo don't you? (or thereabouts).

It always worries me when people use the word "Reputed".


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## cchrys (Jan 2, 2015)

The Rascal said:


> *Is money your god? * Why the Middle East? You realise the cost of living in Dubai is second only to Tokyo don't you? (or thereabouts).
> 
> It always worries me when people use the word "Reputed".


Thank you for judging me and providing such helpful response. You added a lot of value to the discussion.
Thanks again.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

cchrys said:


> Thank you for judging me and providing such helpful response. You added a lot of value to the discussion.
> Thanks again.


People are generally only here for the tax free money, hence money being your god is very relevant. You give up a lot being here.

And with your attitude can i suggest somewhere else? Anywhere really, just not here.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

I don't think Rascal was being rude .. unfortunately, it's a relevant question in this part of the world - to some point.

I work in the software industry and work with many IT project managers in the region. Personally speaking, most are either from India/Pakistan/Arab nations. That means they don't get full expat packages like the one you'd be looking for to get the similar lifestyle you currently have in Canada. 

In my opinion, you should be looking for a senior position - management/director level. I am basing this on the fact that you're basically giving up about 130k+/year salary (including your wife's salary) to move here and Dubai is extremely expensive! When I moved here, I was looking at about 15-20% increase in salary from what I got paid in Canada. Yes, it's tax free here but the cost of living does balance that out - so don't take a pay cut to move here - unless of course, if "money is not your God" and you simply want to experience some travel - then it's your choice as to how much you want to earn.

As far as how to look for a job - sorry, can't help you there. I was transferred here so never had the experience of job hunting in the UAE.


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## cchrys (Jan 2, 2015)

w_man said:


> I don't think Rascal was being rude .. unfortunately, it's a relevant question in this part of the world - to some point.
> 
> I work in the software industry and work with many IT project managers in the region. Personally speaking, most are either from India/Pakistan/Arab nations. That means they don't get full expat packages like the one you'd be looking for to get the similar lifestyle you currently have in Canada.
> 
> ...


Hey - thanks! Because my wife wants to take a break for couple of years and study and I want to experience working in different region/culture without losing ability to save ($2k/month), I came across Dubai as a possible destination.

I considered UK, Australia - but they are English speaking, just like Canada and the US, have similar culture and similar tax environment. So, a) I probably won't get the international experience I was hoping for and b) I probably won't save anything on one salary.

I considered Germany, Switzerland because those two European countries seem to have jobs for English speaking candidates but again their salaries tend to be even lower than in the US and Canada and with only one of us working, it's unlikely I'd save anything, if at all. Other European countries (Spain, France etc.) don't really have as many jobs for English-only speakers PLUS their pay is even lower.

I am not at all decided about moving to Dubai. Hence the title of the thread "*Is Dubai for me* - salary, lifestyle etc.?" I was only evaluating it. 

So far, here is what I've figured.

*Dubai:
*I used some cost of living calculators (numbeo.com etc) and it seems like to live a similar lifestyle as we have in Canada, I'd need: *26,000 to 28,000 AED* (including housing). So, to save $2000 or more (as I currently do in Canada), I'd need to earn an extra *7,000 *AED. Assuming these cost of living calculators are accurate, I can possibly move to Dubai if I can find *32,000 AED to 34,000 AED/month*. Not sure if these salaries are realistic for intermediate level IT Project Manager. 

*Frankfurt (Germany):*
I evaluated Frankfurt (Germany) too and for Germany, I'd require a job that pays 9,000 EUROS / month (gross).

*Zurich, Switzerland:
*14,000 Euros per month (gross) owing to even higher taxes than Germany and higher cost of living than Frankfurt.

*Is money my god?
*If my saving goal (of $2000) is not realistic, I will consider lowering my saving target amount. And then re-evaluate my cities. But, given that my wife is determined to quit work this summer, I am determined to take advantage of this time and gain some international experience. I'd prefer my financial situation (in terms of monthly saving, lifestyle) doesn't change but it's not a must. I am open to lowering my expectation around how much money I can save monthly. I definitely want to maintain same quality of lifestyle though.


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## citytours (Nov 29, 2014)

For best lifestyle in Dubai, your salary must be greater than 20,000 AED


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

citytours said:


> For best lifestyle in Dubai, your salary must be greater than 20,000 AED


Slightly pointless contribution to this thread - especially given the last post from the OP listing his salary requirements!


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

cchrys said:


> *Dubai:
> *I used some cost of living calculators (numbeo.com etc) and it seems like to live a similar lifestyle as we have in Canada, I'd need: *26,000 to 28,000 AED* (including housing). So, to save $2000 or more (as I currently do in Canada), I'd need to earn an extra *7,000 *AED. Assuming these cost of living calculators are accurate, I can possibly move to Dubai if I can find *32,000 AED to 34,000 AED/month*. Not sure if these salaries are realistic for intermediate level IT Project Manager.


I think those numbers are fairly safe. It totally depends on exactly what kind of lifestyle you are looking at so your calculations would be better than what I could tell you. Eg: Housing eats up a lot of your budget every month (rent paid in a year in advance btw, not monthly). So depends on how big of an apartment or house you want, this will be a big factor and can eat up a chunk of that 34k salary.

I am not sure if an intermediate level IT PM can make those numbers in Dubai. As I said, the PMs I have worked with certainly don't but I normally worked with PMs working directly for Oil and Gas companies. Perhaps consulting firms pay more? Or, as I said before, you might want to look for more senior management positions in your field which could certainly get you that salary range.

Good luck with your search.


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## cchrys (Jan 2, 2015)

w_man said:


> I think those numbers are fairly safe. It totally depends on exactly what kind of lifestyle you are looking at so your calculations would be better than what I could tell you. Eg: Housing eats up a lot of your budget every month (rent paid in a year in advance btw, not monthly). So depends on how big of an apartment or house you want, this will be a big factor and can eat up a chunk of that 34k salary.
> 
> I am not sure if an intermediate level IT PM can make those numbers in Dubai. As I said, the PMs I have worked with certainly don't but I normally worked with PMs working directly for Oil and Gas companies. Perhaps consulting firms pay more? Or, as I said before, you might want to look for more senior management positions in your field which could certainly get you that salary range.
> 
> Good luck with your search.



Thanks again. *Housing*: 2 bedroom apartment, preferably within 20 minute commute (each way) to work. Closer the better. But upto 20 mins is non issue. Same as what I have here in Toronto. I am about 15 mins drive from work (downtown) and pay $1800 (rent) + $200 (utilities) for housing. I usually just take the subway/public transit to work but if I am late in the morning, I drive.

Yeah. I'll start looking for employment around April. I'll look in *Germany, Switzerland and Dubai*. Wherever I can find an offer that meets my lifestyle expenses + comes closest to $2000/mo saving goal, I'd go there.

I have been reading a lot of forum posts and it seems like 25,000 AED is *realistic* for an IT Project Manager (Intermediate to Senior). AED 30,000 + is really pushing it though. I have seen some odd posts about offers where base was about AED 20,000 + allowances for housing, car etc. Something like that would work well for me too, I guess.

Let's see what comes of my search later in summer.

Thanks again for your assistance.


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## Kiruha (Jan 4, 2015)

I'd agree, Rascal was not being rude, rather direct which is sometimes perceived as rude in Canada (I'm from Canada too).

Re the actual question - Im in a similar situation, not IT but media, and thinking about the move too. Mostly for money and hot weather.

Based on my research - UAE/Dubai is expensive, but still worth a try. In Europe you'd get similar to Canada work, a lot more paperwork vs UAE (visas etc), a lot more rules, and a lot less fun and potentially (if you are aiming for a good company in Dubai) a lot less scale in projects - there is a lot more money and ego in Middle East vs old Europe to do mind-blown projects (especially in IT)

Why is eveyone saying it is tax free? Dubai - yes, but you still will be chased by CRA, unless you cut all "residential ties" with the country. And it seems not as easy to do - can someone please explain their way out (the process)?

Thank you.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Kiruha said:


> Why is eveyone saying it is tax free? Dubai - yes, but you still will be chased by CRA, unless you cut all "residential ties" with the country. And it seems not as easy to do - can someone please explain their way out (the process)?


You should certainly talk to an accountant (someone who specializes in expat taxes) in Canada before you decide to move. In my opinion, it isn't worth moving out here if you are still paying taxes in Canada. Being a non-resident isn't very difficult but you DO have to cut as many ties as possible with Canada. There's a general list of things you can and *should not* have as per CRA but unfortunately, they are not black and white so you have to cut as many ties as possible.

On another note - depending on your industry - and in many cases, IT - Middle East doesn't always equate to bigger and better projects. I have a few friends who spent a few years in the ME and left thinking the experience didn't help them build their careers at all. One aspect to consider is that most companies here don't spend money on your career development or education. They expect you (a western employee) to teach others with your experience. Also, projects here can experience some unnecessary red tape. I have worked on some projects in the region which have taken us several months compared to doing a similar projects in just a few weeks back in Canada. 

Each industry and company is different but that's been my experience so far.


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## cchrys (Jan 2, 2015)

Kiruha said:


> Why is eveyone saying it is tax free? Dubai - yes, but you still will be chased by CRA, unless you cut all "residential ties" with the country. And it seems not as easy to do - can someone please explain their way out (the process)?
> 
> Thank you.


Although you've to declare your world-income, you are exempted from paying taxes on income earned abroad (upto $250,000, I think) if you were a non-resident for the year. To qualify to be a non-resident, there are some do's and don'ts that you can Google or talk to an accountant about. First thing is, you should have stayed outside Canada for more than 6 months. Some other guidelines - you can look-up.



w_man said:


> *I have a few friends who spent a few years in the ME and left thinking the experience didn't help them build their careers at all. * One aspect to consider is that most companies here don't spend money on your career development or education. They expect you (a western employee) to teach others with your experience. *Also, projects here can experience some unnecessary red tape. I have worked on some projects in the region which have taken us several months compared to doing a similar projects in just a few weeks back in Canada. *


Thanks. I have come across this view a few times too. So, you are probably right about this.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

If you're talking about building up professional experience by working overseas, the UAE is not always the best place to be.

It does depend on the sector. It's a great place to be if you're an architect or a construction project manager, or in finance specialising in developing countries or islamic finance. But for IT it is probably a different story. The problem is that while you may build up an IT team or division, the standards are often much lower and the quality of the output subpar. When you return to Canada your prospective employers probably won't be impressed with you building up an IT team in the UAE if you can't demonstrate the standards the company's used to, and unfortunately standards are generally low. If you were to come out here to work for Emirates or the Jumeirah Group or the regional HQs for a major multinational, that would probably be fine, but don't give up Canada to work for Mohammed Al Abdullah and Sons wholesale trading, and there's far more of the latter than the former. The UAE may look modern from the outside but it's still the wild, wild west in many ways. 

Working in Switzerland, even at a lower salary and higher cost of living, is much more likely to benefit you professionally.


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## cchrys (Jan 2, 2015)

TallyHo said:


> If you're talking about building up professional experience by working overseas, the UAE is not always the best place to be.
> 
> It does depend on the sector. It's a great place to be if you're an architect or a construction project manager, or in finance specialising in developing countries or islamic finance. But for IT it is probably a different story. The problem is that while you may build up an IT team or division, the standards are often much lower and the quality of the output subpar. When you return to Canada your prospective employers probably won't be impressed with you building up an IT team in the UAE if you can't demonstrate the standards the company's used to, and unfortunately standards are generally low. If you were to come out here to work for Emirates or the Jumeirah Group or the regional HQs for a major multinational, that would probably be fine, but don't give up Canada to work for Mohammed Al Abdullah and Sons wholesale trading, and there's far more of the latter than the former. The UAE may look modern from the outside but it's still the wild, wild west in many ways.
> 
> Working in Switzerland, even at a lower salary and higher cost of living, is much more likely to benefit you professionally.


The more people I talk to, the more I come across this point of view. Even at work, I asked some senior managers in my company here in Toronto and the general impression I got was that UAE experience is not highly looked up on; specially for manager kind of experience doesn't transfer well. Technical roles (software developer, engineer, analyst, architect etc) seem more transferable though.

So, yeah, I think, my revised priority list would be:
1. Germany - can save some money and work for a good engineering company (develop professionally) and also experience Europe

2. Dubai - can save some money but may not be best in terms of professional development - depending on what company I find a job in. 

3. Switzerland - Experience Europe but very little opportunity to save money as cost of living is very high compared to salaries.


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## Saba Shahzad (Aug 31, 2012)

Hi, Since you mentioned same maintaining same living style is your aim, here are a few tips.

If you would like to stay in a middle class two bedroom apartment your rent is likely to be about US$2,700 per month. The utility bills, tv and internet will add US$450 - (based on my personal cost and I am also a family of two living a moderate lifestyle)

A typical restaurant meal for two without alcohol will be about US$45. Movie tickets for two cost about US$28. My sports club membership for two costs me US$275 per month. Groceries are about US$800 per month. 

Typically my credit card bill is US$4,000 a month (including the above costs but excl the rent). There are obviously cash expenses which mainly goes into taxi fares, petrol, fast food, small item shopping, etc

I hope this helps.

Overall Dubai is a great place to live and I prefer to stay here as long as circumstances allow me to do so.


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

cchrys said:


> I asked some senior managers in my company here in Toronto and the general impression I got was that UAE experience is not highly looked up on; specially for manager kind of experience doesn't transfer well. Technical roles (software developer, engineer, analyst, architect etc) seem more transferable though........


I am a bit surprised by this statement, maybe it is an IT sector thing? If you can manage a company here effectively with it's diverse people, customs and frustrations you can manage one anywhere. IMO


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

If the skill you practice in a country is at the leading edge, then it will be in demand.

If it isn't, then it won't be - and that applies to any country.

As far as architecture, construction and planning, UAE pretty much leads the way on iconic facilities and buildings. What it lacks in style, it often makes up for it in volume - bridges are unexciting but you can design more buildings and overpasses here in five years than you would in the west over a career lifetime. Only China would probably surpass that volume.

IT etc - its a commodity and playing second string to the west so as has been stated, nobodys career was ever enhanced by having second string players on their CV.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

XDoodle****** said:


> I am a bit surprised by this statement, maybe it is an IT sector thing? If you can manage a company here effectively with it's diverse people, customs and frustrations you can manage one anywhere. IMO


Meeh - depends on what and who you are managing. If you are managing a set of incompetent staff, providing sub par performance and producing a passable product then you are not really gaining any killer skills.

Managing a company effectively can mean anything here. I have met a 'regional manager' or two in a couple of different sectors who I wouldn't hire to sell computers in a department store back home.


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## Junaer (Jan 7, 2011)

The Rascal said:


> Is money your god? Why the Middle East? You realise the cost of living in Dubai is second only to Tokyo don't you? (or thereabouts).
> 
> It always worries me when people use the word "Reputed".


There's a saying that goes like 'a penny saved is a penny earned'

If money was anyone's god he would most likely feel cheated his entire life ahahah


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## XDoodlebugger (Jan 24, 2012)

w_man said:


> Meeh - depends on what and who you are managing. If you are managing a set of incompetent staff, providing sub par performance and producing a passable product then you are not really gaining any killer skills.
> 
> Managing a company effectively can mean anything here. I have met a 'regional manager' or two in a couple of different sectors who I wouldn't hire to sell computers in a department store back home.


I guess what I mean by effectively is to actually build a first class team that you can be proud of as opposed to so many of the companies here that are incompetent. I came to help form a new division of a local company in 2012 and we are gaining worldwide recognition, out performing all other companies in Africa, the Middle East and Europe that we are judged against for two years in a row. Managing a company to mediocrity anywhere is not a good resume builder.


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