# Spain



## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

Hi, I am looking for some advice please on moving me and my family to Spain within the next 2 years. My daughters will then be 20 and 16 and wanted any advice on colleges and universities please and where the best area to live would be for possible building work for my husband. I understand unemployment is high in Spain but was thinking of established English builders who may be able to help. We are very serious and are all learning Spanish at the moment to help us integrate with the Spanish and work opportunities. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Best universities and colleges would be in the UK. The alternative would cost an absolute fortune unless your children are already almost fluent in spanish. Can I ask why a 22 year old (as she will be) would want to move to Spain?


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

StaleyGee said:


> Hi, I am looking for some advice please on moving me and my family to Spain within the next 2 years. My daughters will then be 20 and 16 and wanted any advice on colleges and universities please and where the best area to live would be for possible building work for my husband. I understand unemployment is high in Spain but was thinking of established English builders who may be able to help. We are very serious and are all learning Spanish at the moment to help us integrate with the Spanish and work opportunities. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.


Hi,

We live near Alicante , there is a good uni in San Vincente. , my kids don't go there so can't comment on what its like.

Do your girls speak Spanish? 

It is a good time to buy at the moment but not so sure about building work for your husband,

I did building here for a long time , but now there is little work,

I live in the country, so it might be better on an urbinisation with more ex pats requiring works ?

Good luck with the move 

Tony Agost Alicante


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Sorry Staley missed that she will be 20 then and not 22 but even so the question remains. What would she study?


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## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

Alborino, we all want a better quality of life as the UK doesn't offer that anymore and she wants to study teaching.
Tonymar, many thanks for your advice, it's appreciated. Alicante is one place we are keen on so will look into the university. We are all learning Spanish so hopefully will speak it well by the time we come.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

StaleyGee said:


> Alborino, we all want a better quality of life as the UK doesn't offer that anymore and she wants to study teaching.
> Tonymar, many thanks for your advice, it's appreciated. Alicante is one place we are keen on so will look into the university. We are all learning Spanish so hopefully will speak it well by the time we come.


there's no chance anyone could be fluent enough in Spanish in two years to study at degree level

Alicante Uni does have some of the info on the website in English though, so maybe some of their courses are in English

ADMISSIONS AND STUDIES. University of Alicante


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

StaleyGee said:


> Alborino, we all want a better quality of life as the UK doesn't offer that anymore and she wants to study teaching.
> Tonymar, many thanks for your advice, it's appreciated. Alicante is one place we are keen on so will look into the university. We are all learning Spanish so hopefully will speak it well by the time we come.


Oh man. 

Make sure she looks into the transfer of any credentials she would earn in Spain to the country she would like to work in. I would *only* get a teaching degree in Spain if I were: 1. fluent in Spanish and 2. ONLY looking to work in Spain. Even so, I found the whole educational system to be completely different here. I failed an exam for the first time in my life here, due to the silly "0 points for leaving the question blank, -1 point for getting the question wrong" policy. *grumble* Thank God for Spain's "Fail once and we'll give you another shot in three months!" policy. 

Believe me, the process of legalizing and transferring your degree is a *nightmare*, especially when professional credentials (teaching license, etc.) are involved. 

Short and sweet? I think it's a *bad* plan for your college-aged daughter.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

There's also the possible problem of healthcare??? You need to be paying into the Spanish system by way of either an employment contract or by paying into the self employed system (autonomo). I'm not sure if your eldest would be covered, as she would be possibly considered an adult??

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hello Staley Gee,
You might want to redefine how you think a move to Spain is going to give your family a better quality of life... Unfortunately one of the main reasons for Spain's crisis being so much worse than the UK, France, Germany is because too much building went on, mainly of housing. The sales of new builds fell again according to the latest figures, and this has been going on since 2008. It seems that there will be another construction boom soon, but I think that it will be shortlived as there are still too many houses on the market. 
If you look at my signature you'll see some figures about unemployment. Look at the figure for young people. Hopefully it will go down in 2 years, but it's unlikely that it'll go down below 30% IMHO.
And I also agree with what the others have said. If your daughters were 3 and 5 maybe, but now, it's very risky and looking for a better quality of life in Spain may just screw everything up for ever.
If you do ahead I suggest you read up about the economy of Spain, employment/ unemployment, university admissions and taxes, job opportunities etc
Have you considered moving to another part of the UK or a different country like Holland (lots of English in education there)?


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## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

Thank you Pesky Wesky  When I say better quality of life, I mean slower and calmer and especially warmer. England for me isn't what I want anymore and the work and housing prospects for my girls here are not promising. It doesn't have to be Spain, anywhere in Europe which would give us all the life we'd like would be good. A move somewhere else in the UK wouldn't be an option as housing/jobs etc would be pretty much the same. We are researching Europe as a whole and I will look at Holland.
Thank you for your time in replying


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

StaleyGee said:


> Thank you Pesky Wesky  When I say better quality of life, I mean slower and calmer and especially warmer. England for me isn't what I want anymore and the work and housing prospects for my girls here are not promising. It doesn't have to be Spain, anywhere in Europe which would give us all the life we'd like would be good. A move somewhere else in the UK wouldn't be an option as housing/jobs etc would be pretty much the same. We are researching Europe as a whole and I will look at Holland.
> Thank you for your time in replying


Prospects for young people in Spain are dire. Unemployment for young people is almost 60%, the highest in Europe.
I'm not sure what you mean by ' the life we'd like' but perhaps it's worth considering the fact that thousands of young Spaniards and other Europeans are relocating to the very country you wish to escape from in order to live the life they'd like, that is a life with better chance of secure, well- paid work, a welfare system that offers a safety net as well as a more easily accessible state health care system.
I'm also wondering why you think 'anywhere in Europe' would offer you a better life than the UK. Presumably Greece is out of the question....
There is only one country in Europe that admits immigrants with no secure jobs, without requiring proof of healthcare and adequate financial resources and that is the UK. Most countries are struggling with their own unemployment problems. 
The construction industry in Spain has collapsed. Here in Andalucia the effects have been most strongly felt. There are few opportunities for imigrant builders and those that are go mainly to Moroccan and South American immigrants who work for low wages. There are no British construction companies in my area.
Viewed against the perspective of Europe as a whole, the UK seems an attractive prospect.
Spain is sadly for those with existing well- paid and secure jobs or the retired with adequate incomes and will remain like that for the foreseeable future.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

StaleyGee said:


> Thank you Pesky Wesky  When I say better quality of life, I mean slower and calmer and especially warmer. England for me isn't what I want anymore and the work and housing prospects for my girls here are not promising. It doesn't have to be Spain, anywhere in Europe which would give us all the life we'd like would be good. A move somewhere else in the UK wouldn't be an option as housing/jobs etc would be pretty much the same. We are researching Europe as a whole and I will look at Holland.
> Thank you for your time in replying


And thank you for taking the post as it was meant - as "constructive criticism"! 
I do wish you luck as I am sure all the posters here do, but Spain atm, and indeed in 2 years time is probably not the best place for your family.
If you want to move in a couple of years you have plenty of time to do research. Apart from finding work, the girls' education will be tricky. It's unlikely they will be proficient enough in another language to be able to study in it without some full on immersion, and even then it depends so much on the individual. Also education systems vary so much. Here there are no A levels. My daughter studied between 9 and 11 subjects at 16+, so there were plenty of things in there that she didn't want to study, but had to. Imagine doing all of that in a foreign language besides making friends and finding your way around another culture and at the age of 16. Not easy...


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## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm really not sure why I feel I have to justify what a better life for us means than what I've already said. I think you answered my question on the UK with them letting in any Tom, Dick and Harry to have benefits, healthcare, housing and jobs leaving little for people born here. For my children to buy there own house they would need at least £20,000 deposit, they could go to Uni here and end up with no work and huge debt at the end of it. No Greece wouldn't be out of the question, no country would! Of course we wouldn't go anywhere where the girls would be in a worse position than they are here, hence the reason I posted this thread. Is it so wrong to ask for advice when none of us are happy to spend our lives in the UK?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

StaleyGee said:


> I'm really not sure why I feel I have to justify what a better life for us means than what I've already said. I think you answered my question on the UK with them letting in any Tom, Dick and Harry to have benefits, healthcare, housing and jobs leaving little for people born here. For my children to buy there own house they would need at least £20,000 deposit, they could go to Uni here and end up with no work and huge debt at the end of it. No Greece wouldn't be out of the question, no country would! Of course we wouldn't go anywhere where the girls would be in a worse position than they are here, hence the reason I posted this thread. Is it so wrong to ask for advice when none of us are happy to spend our lives in the UK?


You asked for advice and you have been given it. Sadly, it does not support your plans.
You do seem to have the idea that life in Europe, anywhere in Europe, is better than life in the UK and to be brutally honest, that view is false.
There is no doubt that your girls are in a far better position in the UK as far as work prospects go and without work you can't buy a house, fact.
Millions of people are quite happy to spend their lives in the UK. Thousands emigrate to work there legally, those presumably you dismiss as 'every Tom,Dick and Harry'.m many others risk their lives to get there. You too wish to be an immigrant. Incidentally, immigrants do not automatically qualify for benefits on arrival. That is a myth stoked by the right- wing press.
Millions of qualified Spanish youngsters have no work and no prospects of finding any.
I have lived in other Europ an countries before coming to Spain and I can tell you from experience that life in the UK is not to be lightly dismissed.
You live in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK, my county of origin. The UK has one of the lowest unemployment levels in Europe.
Please do not be so ready to run it down until you have had first- hand experience of what it's really like in Europe.
And ifyou think I'm being harsh, wait until Leper joins in...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

StaleyGee said:


> I'm really not sure why I feel I have to justify what a better life for us means than what I've already said. I think you answered my question on the UK with them letting in any Tom, Dick and Harry to have benefits, healthcare, housing and jobs leaving little for people born here. For my children to buy there own house they would need at least £20,000 deposit, they could go to Uni here and end up with no work and huge debt at the end of it. No Greece wouldn't be out of the question, no country would! Of course we wouldn't go anywhere where the girls would be in a worse position than they are here, hence the reason I posted this thread. Is it so wrong to ask for advice when none of us are happy to spend our lives in the UK?


The forum is here to give advice to people in your position - sadly its not always what people want to hear, but it enables you to have the information and knowledge before you make a leap of faith.

I'm someone who left the UK with my family 8 years ago to have the life you're looking for and it, for me was great. We had five wonderful years there. BUT, Spain is a harsh country and has suffered in the recession - which still isnt quite finished there. We came back to the UK because my children had reached an age where they needed further education and employment prospects - which were/are infinitely better in the UK - and I hate to say this, but life is so much easier in the UK, yes I know its a soft touch with its benefit systems and PC brigade, I found that annoying too. However, its not until you lose it that you realise that (apart from the summer weather) life is much easier in the UK, if only because its familiar, the language, the rules, the fact you already exist here, friends, family, lifestyle..... 

So, maybe as a compromise and a learning curve, why not rent a place for a few months - maybe during the summer holidays and get a feel for Spain, see whats available first hand and how you all find it???? Without giving up your UK life - unless you find its going to work in Spain?

Jo xxx


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## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

Yes you have given advice in a strange and brutal way and it's not one I appreciate. May I ask if it's so great in the UK then why are you living in Spain? I beg to differ on immigrants not receiving benefits, it's not a myth as remember I live here and have become friends with them and they do qualify for all immediately they arrive.
Again I am interested in your advice and welcome others but when you begin to question my choices then I totally switch off. This will apply to Leper also. I don't have to justify our decisions to you or anyone so please, unless you have anything positive to add with regards to Spain and not how amazing the UK is when you don't live here then please don't comment any further as I will not be drawn in to some ridiculous banter.


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## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

Thank you jojo, at last some nice, welcome advice. I understand completely what you have said and I value you have experienced this first hand. That was my concern with the girls the ages they are and the lack of speaking the language well. Obviously 2 years is a long way off and gives us plenty of time to see what's out there, trial living and how the land lies for us all when the girls education is complete. Many thanks


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

StaleyGee said:


> Thank you Pesky Wesky  When I say better quality of life, I mean slower and calmer and especially warmer. England for me isn't what I want anymore and the work and housing prospects for my girls here are not promising. It doesn't have to be Spain, anywhere in Europe which would give us all the life we'd like would be good. A move somewhere else in the UK wouldn't be an option as housing/jobs etc would be pretty much the same. We are researching Europe as a whole and I will look at Holland.
> Thank you for your time in replying


Everything others have already told you about the lack of employment prospects here for your family is absolutely true - and without an income none of you could enjoy life no matter how much slower, calmer and warmer it may be. Your daughters' housing prospects would be infinitely worse without the prospect of jobs to pay for it.

None of the British builders I met when we first came here are still here - they left when work dried up. A friend's 21 year old daughter who has lived here since the age of 10, is fully bilingual as she did all of her secondary education here, but who has not worked since she left school other than doing a hairdressing course (which her mother had to pay for) has just returned to the UK to live with family as she has reluctantly accepted that there are no prospects for her here. Qualified native Spanish teachers and nurses, amongst others, can't get work here and are going to other European countries, including the UK, in droves. As for your family looking towards other countries in Europe, unfortunately the situation in any of the Southern Mediterranean countries is pretty much the same and you would really need to look to the same places the unemployed Spanish people do to improve work prospects - Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway etc.

By the way, it may seem strange to you that the people telling you all this are themselves living in Spain, and very happily so for the most part, but that is for the simple reason that they are no longer in a position where they need to find work in order to live - it is that, and that alone, which is the game changer.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*



Lynn R By the way, it may seem strange to you that the people telling you all this are themselves living in Spain, and very happily so for the most part, but that is for the simple reason that they are no longer in a position where they need to find work in order to live - it is that, and that alone, which is the game changer.

Click to expand...

*Well, not quite.
Xabiachica elenetxu and myself are all working and tonymar would be if he could, but our circumstances are all very different. Elenetxu and myself have Spanish husbands which, in theory, can make living here easier. Elenetxu, xabiachica and myself speak the language to a point where we are fluent, not sure about tonymar. I came here long before the crisis ever hit. In fact I was here when Spain was like a teenager putting on a growth spurt.
However, I have to agree that the great majority of people who can really contemplate coming here to better their situation are older people who have a financially secure future.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

StaleyGee said:


> Thank you jojo, at last some nice, welcome advice. I understand completely what you have said and I value you have experienced this first hand. That was my concern with the girls the ages they are and the lack of speaking the language well. Obviously 2 years is a long way off and gives us plenty of time to see what's out there, trial living and how the land lies for us all when the girls education is complete. Many thanks


Life can be very tough here without work. Those who are most successful tend to be retired with a guaranteed income. To do many things here you would need to become resident. In order to qualify you have to prove you will not become a burden on the Spain (odd when you consider there are hardly any benefits here, and those that do exist you can only get for around 6 months providing you've been working for a period of time) and that means proving an income of €600 per month per person and also providing proof of healthcare which may be private. The reason you will find so many 'harsh' comments on here is almost entirely because the advice has to be correct. No point telling you that everything will be just fine when it simply won't be. I know from you posts you realise that there is high unemployment and that it won't be easy. JoJo's advice about coming over for 2 months in the summer is very good and will give you a much better idea of what it is really like and maybe, just maybe you might find contracted work. Have a look at this thread - recommend laptop in bed a it is very long - but it will give you a very good insight as to why folk on the forum sometimes don't say what people want to hear: Why do we bother???

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/371025-why-do-we-bother.html


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

One possibility for someone like the OP would be for the husband and the daughters to commute back to the UK. The money a builder can gain in the UK with the very good current exchange rate would possibly finance that approach. That would also reduce the health bill.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I will add that we moved here in 2010 with a 5 month old boy. I am retired with a government pension and we became resident back then when the requirements were much easier - there were no requirements. We've been lucky and found work even though we didn't need it but were grateful anyway since sitting around the pool drinking brandy and G&Ts can become quite dull (having just typed that can't wait for the summer and doing it anyway!). I have been teaching English to Spanish kids and adults and maths and physics to English kids taking IGCSEs. OH is doing landscape gardening and we look after and manage three properties all very near to us. Point I am making really is that it can work but whatever your expectations are be prepared to change them 100% as living here is never the same as holidaying here. Our boy is now pretty fluent in Spanish and he has to be as none of his teachers speak a work of English (kids start school here at 3 yrs, compulsory from 6 yrs). OH is doing very well with her Spanish but mine often drifts into French and sometimes, embarrassingly, Latin... Ah well...


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello StaleyGee,

Please do not be offended by the advice and comments here. We are not there yet in Spain. We are retired and are of State pension age which offers a lot of advantages which are not available to those below state pension age.

All I can say is do the research and do it very thoroughly and be brutally honest with your self and your particular circumstances.

If were not for the people making comments that I didn't quite like at the time on this very forum we would have made a huge disastrous mistake. Yes we are still looking and making every effort to move but it has to be for the right reasons.

I believe and hope that I have made some internet friends on here and maybe some enemies as well, but sure as hell the advice has been good and verifiable when checked out at the official sources.

Hope you keep coming here and enjoy the reading even if all is not pallatable.

regards
Ian


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

The BIG BIG BIG message I and others take from the more experienced members on here is one which is invaluable- RENT RENT RENT!!!!


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I would like to tell you our story, briefly!
Spain was an expat posting for us in May 2013, we did not choose the place persay. We had been expats in Asia since 1999 (originally from the North East of England).
The contracted job my husband had in Northern Spain went t**ts up! So I am now bringing my 2 children up here alone while hubby is back in Asia.
My kids speak little to no Spanish. At 14 & 18 they are both at a 'Briitish' School, a large percentage of their classmates are Spanish. The language of instruction and curriculum is English.
The school is 'expensive' & of rather poor quality. Which does beg the question why Spanish parents choose that school. The only conclusion I can come to is they get to speak English fluetly, take UK based exams which makes their chances of getting into a UK university much better.
The majority of my daughter's classmates (herself included) will go to the UK for University. I know of one girl who will study linguists at Malaga University.
Going to a UK Uni is not the 'cheap' choice for us; because of my daughter's residency status she is classed as an International student, will pay around 1/3 more in fees and be entitled to no loans / financial help.
If there was a University in Spain that offered courses in only English she would be staying here with me and her brother. I did find oddments knocking around; an expensive business school, Marbella University, & maybe a course or 2 here and there taught in English but nothing suitable.
Rotterdam (I believe you mentioned Holland) came up as one of the cities UK students are choosing as courses are taught in English. Sweden is another country, maybe Denmark. There aren't that many Uni's that I could find in Europe where courses are taught in English. Maybe my googling skills aren't up to much?!
We also looked at Malta (maybe you could to?). Uni is practically free, English is the language of instruction and perhaps work prospects would be better all round.
The unemplyment for the under 26's in Andalucia stands at around 60%. There is no way my children's future lies in Spain.
As for a better way of life?! The winter has been long and gruesome here on the Costa del sol. The houses aren't made for this sort of weather so my kids have been cold again! The Summers are intense (we are used to the heat) but it can be relentless.
Things won't be better just different as a mum!!! Unless you've won the lottery?!! You get up in the morn' work during the day (even if that is just shopping, cooking, cleaning, running around) & you go to bed at night! & the whole thing starts again!
Maybe with the added difficulty of the language barrier and 2 older kids (your 20 year old will classed as an adult not a dependant, surely?) struggling to adjust, find work whatever.
Sorry if I have repeated anything from the above posts. I am in the middle of changing the beds and couldn't be bothered to read through them!
But if either of your kids want to get in touch with mine for some honest answers from them / classmates / friends please feel free to message me and I will hook them up.
(just one more thing the British ex school kids I meet here (18 -25 age group) are either serving me my half of cider or giving me my pedi. Absolutley nothing wrong with that, just pointing out the type of work they are doing here).


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> *
> *
> Well, not quite.
> Xabiachica elenetxu and myself are all working and tonymar would be if he could, but our circumstances are all very different. Elenetxu and myself have Spanish husbands which, in theory, can make living here easier. Elenetxu, xabiachica and myself speak the language to a point where we are fluent, not sure about tonymar. I came here long before the crisis ever hit. In fact I was here when Spain was like a teenager putting on a growth spurt.
> However, I have to agree that the great majority of people who can really contemplate coming here to better their situation are older people who have a financially secure future.


I came here with a "comfy" government job which I had for my first four years here in Spain. After the government cut my position, I was able to quickly transition into the private sector due to my work experience, my education, and my recommendations from said government positions. Had it not been for my CV, I doubt I would have found work as easily as I did.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

StaleyGee said:


> Yes you have given advice in a strange and brutal way and it's not one I appreciate. May I ask if it's so great in the UK then why are you living in Spain? I beg to differ on immigrants not receiving benefits, it's not a myth as remember I live here and have become friends with them and they do qualify for all immediately they arrive.
> Again I am interested in your advice and welcome others but when you begin to question my choices then I totally switch off. This will apply to Leper also. I don't have to justify our decisions to you or anyone so please, unless you have anything positive to add with regards to Spain and not how amazing the UK is when you don't live here then please don't comment any further as I will not be drawn in to some ridiculous banter.


No you don't have to 'justify' yourself and I did not 'question' your choices. What you do or don't do will have no effect on my lifestyle here or in the UK. I'm not interested in any choices you think you may have.
Hearing what you don't want to hear can be brutal to some, to others it's simply telling it as it is.
I came to live in Spain after living in other parts of Europe after decades of working, paying taxes and benefiting from all the UK has to offer in terms of health care, education and all the other benefits you dismiss. I'm retired, I don't nee to work, my family are educated and employed. I can live where I choose, within reason.
I often wonder what Spanish people think when they read posts like yours, running down the UK. You seem to think it's easy to up sticks and move, taking advantage, I might add, of the same laws that those immigrants you cast aspersions on, those 'Tom, Dicks and Harrys' use to come to the UK. Many Spanish families live with nothing...no dole. They live off granny's pension. Their children have been forced to emigrate to the UK you despise to find work and they work. As nurses in our NHS for one thing. Many of them do jobs that English people think beneath them. And I have to tell you that you are wrong. Immigrants do not receive benefits the minute they set foot on British soil. I know people who parrot that kind of nonsense. 
Where I live in comfort because of the opportunities the UK gave me to retire on a reasonable income, four out of ten people of working age are without work. There are places where it is worse.
I'm sorry if you don't like what I am saying but I think you need to appreciate reality. I don't think the UK is 'amazing' - what an odd word to use - but I do have experience of like in the UK, Spain and Europe to know that the choices available to you are more extensive in the UK than anywhere else in Europe at this time.
And as a footnote...if I had work to give, I'd give it to a Spaniard. They have more entitlement, imo.
Now I've said what I have to say. I think you should take Jo's advice and find ut a lot more about how things are outside of the UK. 
One last thing, though....are you aware that more people moved back to the UK from Spain than emigrated to Spain last year?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> I would like to tell you our story, briefly!
> Spain was an expat posting for us in May 2013, we did not choose the place persay. We had been expats in Asia since 1999 (originally from the North East of England).
> The contracted job my husband had in Northern Spain went t**ts up! So I am now bringing my 2 children up here alone while hubby is back in Asia.
> My kids speak little to no Spanish. At 14 & 18 they are both at a 'Briitish' School, a large percentage of their classmates are Spanish. The language of instruction and curriculum is English.
> ...


Such a good post angil. Why?
Because it's so true, because it's real life.
I will be referring others with older children to read what you have written


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> One possibility for someone like the OP would be for the husband and the daughters to commute back to the UK. The money a builder can gain in the UK with the very good current exchange rate would possibly finance that approach. That would also reduce the health bill.


The whole point of the exercise seems to be to escape from the hell-hole that is the UK.....



When people talk about the slow pace of life in Spain they are obviously unaware that people often work long hours for low pay and rarely see the sun. Many have to hold down two or three jobs to make a living...


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> The whole point of the exercise seems to be to escape from the hell-hole that is the UK.....


Mary you are not going to bear bait me into replying, you're not, no, no ........ 

I did smile because this morning I had to chase up a builder in Hampshire who sent two guys who did a great job for us some weeks ago. I like to pay promptly so I asked when I might receive an invoice. His wife said I'm sorry but we are far to busy to do it now. As you know we only returned from 4 weeks in Australia over Christmas and we are still trying to catch up with all the work. Do you mind waiting? 

I'm having the flat redesigned in Spain. Wonder if I'll have to chase the invoice 

Sorry OP :focus:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> Mary you are not going to bear bait me into replying, you're not, no, no ........
> 
> I did smile because this morning I had to chase up a builder in Hampshire who sent two guys who did a great job for us some weeks ago. I like to pay promptly so I asked when I might receive an invoice. His wife said I'm sorry but we are far to busy to do it now. As you know we only returned from 4 weeks in Australia over Christmas and we are still trying to catch up with all the work. Do you mind waiting?
> 
> ...


Well, you are a good guy because you mention the word 'invoice'. 

One of the problems OH had when we were in business was chasing up payments for £ thousands due from very large companies for work we had done, companies that hadn't specifically requested longer terms of payment. That could be the death knell for many businesses.
I guess that happens in Spain.
I've no desire to go back to the UK to live, and no reason to. My family come to their house here often enough, at least dil does, she's due for a long weekend next week.
But we enjoyed a happy and pleasant lifestyle back in the UK and if it weren't for the savings we were able to make from our years of work in the UK, we wouldn't be in Spain.
Are you by chance a native of Hampshire and if so, where? I'm Dorset born and bred...strong in the arm and thick in the head, as the saying goes. I've got relatives in Swanage, Wimborne, Dorchester, Shaftesbury and Weymouth, the place of residence of the OP. A lovely little town, set in a county which is a darned sight more prosperous and pleasant to live in than many other parts of the UK.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Mary glad to say in the UK we haven't had a problem being paid by public or private sector for 20 years. The last offender was GEC which gratefully no longer exists. It's funny because they didn't pay a £135 invoice in the early 90s. Two years later they called saying some of our software was in use at a Chinese power station and could we help. Turning down business never felt so good 

I came to Hampshire for work in 76 so not home. I'm a Herts boy. But yes Hants/Dorset has some beautiful places and now hairy pigs running wild


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino;6
I came to Hampshire for work in 76 so not home. I'm a Herts boy. But yes Hants/Dorset has some beautiful places and now hairy pigs running wild :cool:[/QUOTE said:


> Do not speak so disrespectfully of my old Uncle Albert.....:boxing:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I was very tempted not to bother to post anything, since most of what you should be aware of, has already been said.

You have already realised that you have to devote a lot of effort into research. I started researching into where we were going to move when I retired. We ere, at the time living in a top floor flat in an old Victorian building (10ft ceilings) with no lifts and we could foresee that a time might come when we or one of us might not be able to manage all those stairs. There was also the possibility that we might have to take one or both of my in-laws in to live with us and a one-bedroomed flat was not going to suit.

2000, I started looking at the possibilities of some 7 countries with which we had connections (family, language or holidays). After the f-i-l died in 2005, it was obvious that we would have to have somewhere that would house us and the m-i-l so the pace of activity was stepped up and houses, cost thereof, taxes, standard of living, etc. were looked at more closely and we settled on Spain as being a country that would best suit our needs. 2006 we started looking at areas (we had a rough specification) more closely and getting a better idea of just what we were looking for. 2007 we decided on the house we wanted, paid a deposit. November 2008 we moved. Perfect- just what we want and just where we want it.

So, Yes, the answer is research, research, research. That means having a clear idea of really what you are looking for, in respect of climate, type of property, area, etc before you bother dipping your toe in the water by renting somewhere. Bear in mind that climate can vary according to altitude as well as latitude.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

OP hasn't responded which is a shame, but this often happens. You don't get the good news you asked for so you don't bother looking. OP the comments on here are meant to help you not make a terrible decision. As I said in one of my posts, it might just work out for you but there are so many hurdles to overcome, especially in your particular circumstances. Good luck...


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## StaleyGee (Feb 15, 2015)

No, please don't think I've been put off  I really appreciate everyone's help, advice, do's and don'ts and it's giving me so much to think about. It's great having somewhere like this where you can get what you need first hand and some of you have given amazing advice so thank you all. We feel that the UK isn't for us at the moment but whether Spain is for us or somewhere else in a couple of years, we'll have to see. Many thanks again


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

StaleyGee said:


> No, please don't think I've been put off  I really appreciate everyone's help, advice, do's and don'ts and it's giving me so much to think about. It's great having somewhere like this where you can get what you need first hand and some of you have given amazing advice so thank you all. We feel that the UK isn't for us at the moment but whether Spain is for us or somewhere else in a couple of years, we'll have to see. Many thanks again


Try to think of what you are going to, not what you are running/walking away from.


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

As a retired academic I know the UK education system well and the Spanish one reasonably. Your prospects are dire in Spain if you need work, your children will not be able to finish their education in Spain as they will not be able to speak Spanish sufficiently well enough to follow the complexities of higher education. Although I fully believe that the Uk education system has been dumbed down, ( I did in fact decide to leave my post in a university because I got sick of the poor quality of undergraduates coming up) and there is now significant qualification inflation going on, I feel that your two children would get a better degree and be able to use it anywhere in the world if it were awarded from a good UK university rather than a Spanish one. 

Your work prospects are far better in the UK than more or less anywhere in the EU, the States would offer the best prospects as far as jobs and education outside of the UK but you would need to have some profession or skill that they need, there is a website that is a federal site for qualifications and skills needed for getting a green card, no language problems either. Sorry to say but coming out to Spain in your position at present is a pipe dream, there are many good Spanish builders needing work who would be further up the queue than any British builder as the skills needed in Spain are different. Spain is not the place at present for anyone needing work, you need to have an independent income or massive savings. Hate to be off putting but I have seen too many come full of dreams and optimism and leave with their hearts and bank balances broken and in many cases their relationships - when money problems come in through the door, love flies out of the window.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ABERAFON said:


> As a retired academic I know the UK education system well and the Spanish one reasonably. Your prospects are dire in Spain if you need work, your children will not be able to finish their education in Spain as they will not be able to speak Spanish sufficiently well enough to follow the complexities of higher education. Although I fully believe that the Uk education system has been dumbed down, ( I did in fact decide to leave my post in a university because I got sick of the poor quality of undergraduates coming up) and there is now significant qualification inflation going on, I feel that your two children would get a better degree and be able to use it anywhere in the world if it were awarded from a good UK university rather than a Spanish one.
> 
> Your work prospects are far better in the UK than more or less anywhere in the EU, the States would offer the best prospects as far as jobs and education outside of the UK but you would need to have some profession or skill that they need, there is a website that is a federal site for qualifications and skills needed for getting a green card, no language problems either. Sorry to say but coming out to Spain in your position at present is a pipe dream, there are many good Spanish builders needing work who would be further up the queue than any British builder as the skills needed in Spain are different. Spain is not the place at present for anyone needing work, you need to have an independent income or massive savings. Hate to be off putting but I have seen too many come full of dreams and optimism and leave with their hearts and bank balances broken and in many cases their relationships - when money problems come in through the door, love flies out of the window.


Were you at UEA by any chance?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

> there is a website that is a federal site for qualifications and skills needed for getting a green card,


Do you have a link to that?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Just as an aside, but an interesting one. The company I work for has employed many Spanish nurses. Well the department I work for had their first "new recruits" today, three Spanish nurses (from Estapone), they've been trained up, taken their exams (with the guidance of an interpreter and English lessons) and have been let loose on the world (well the community we cover) lol!!!

They are lovely and were telling me that the only reason they have come to England is because of the lack of work in Spain and that their families are relying on them to succeed. They say the work situation in Spain is no better - its worse if anything because there are now long term unemployed, which is taking its toll on whole communities and morale. One of them is terribly homesick, but cant go back as she needs the money. The others are just enjoying the experience,, but would prefer to be back in Spain. 

Jo xxx


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Were you at UEA by any chance?


Hi Pesky,

No, I was at Chester, Liverpool and Manchester for most of my career with some time at Oxbridge but left it to set up an associated business for a few years then retired. My wife and I are currently thinking of coming back to buy in Spain, but only a holiday home now as we have a grandchild that we want to see every 4 or 6 weeks so we would do months about. We really miss Spain and would like to experience that peace again that we had there. We will buy a small villa if the prices don't start to rise again too much as we would not risk so much money now in Spanish property.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ABERAFON said:


> Hi Pesky,
> 
> No, I was at Chester, Liverpool and Manchester for most of my career with some time at Oxbridge but left it to set up an associated business for a few years then retired. My wife and I are currently thinking of coming back to buy in Spain, but only a holiday home now as we have a grandchild that we want to see every 4 or 6 weeks so we would do months about. We really miss Spain and would like to experience that peace again that we had there. We will buy a small villa if the prices don't start to rise again too much as we would not risk so much money now in Spanish property.


I just wondered as you have your present location as Norwich. I went to Keswick Hall College of Education which became part of UEA whilst I was there. I loved Norwich!
Very important for you to be there to watch your grandchildren grow, so I can see the reason behind the idea of being in Spain for a few weeks at a time


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Norwich is a nice city but far too busy for me now as I just seek peace and quiet. I think Keswick Hall is now closed as an educational institution and the houses that were on the site have all been sold, I understand that the hall is a combination of offices and leisure facilities for the residents of the houses.

Our Grandson is very important to us and he likes to be with us as much as possible and we of course like him to be with us. Family is the most important thing in life and children are a great joy. We would love to spend a lot of time in Spain but just can't do it so having months about is the best we can achieve and will be starting to look at property over the next 6 months providing prices remain stable. We did think of renting but it is difficult to do what we want to do in rented property.


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## noija (Jan 19, 2015)

Ive heard that the university in Valencia is really good and its a real nice, fun and big town


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I just wondered as you have your present location as Norwich. I went to Keswick Hall College of Education which became part of UEA whilst I was there. I loved Norwich!
> Very important for you to be there to watch your grandchildren grow, so I can see the reason behind the idea of being in Spain for a few weeks at a time


I know Norwich very well.. 'A Fine City'.
I may have asked you this but as you were at UEA did you know Celia Cameron, her husband Neil Cameron ,Bryan Heading and George Turner? All were lecturers at UEA in the 1980s/1990s and prominent Labour Party figures. I was considering fighting one of the Norwich seats as PPC, if asked.

A lot of Norwich was destroyed in the last year of the war, not by bombs but by V2 rockets, or so I read. That explains some of the newer and in most cases ugly (imo) buildings that sit side by side with fine old churches and secular buildings.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I know Norwich very well.. 'A Fine City'.
> I may have asked you this but as you were at UEA did you know Celia Cameron, her husband Neil Cameron ,Bryan Heading and George Turner? All were lecturers at UEA in the 1980s/1990s and prominent Labour Party figures. I was considering fighting one of the Norwich seats as PPC, if asked.
> 
> A lot of Norwich was destroyed in the last year of the war, not by bombs but by V2 rockets, or so I read. That explains some of the newer and in most cases ugly (imo) buildings that sit side by side with fine old churches and secular buildings.


Yes, you did ask me and I never replied . I didn't know any of them probably because as I said in a previous post here, I started off at Keswick Hall which was actually a reformed stately home ouside of the city - very nice, but literally in a world of its own. We were officially part of UEA, but only went there for concerts and the like. Then in my fourth year Keswick was closed and I decided to live on campus at UEA as some of the people I'd been sharing a house with didn't stay on for Hons.
(It was my first real taste of being looked down on for being a student/ professional of the world of Education, something that I've seen is pretty international. When my daughter decided to study educación infantil here even her own teachers said that "ella vale más", an extraordinary attitude that I still struggle with)
Anyway, loved Norwich and have very fond memories of my years there


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky;6520721(It was my first real taste of being looked down on for being a student/ professional of the world of Education said:


> Very true still, unless of course you teach at a public school or private establishment....
> The problem stems I think from the Victorian times when being a governess or elementary school teacher was an occupation for working-class women. There is still more kudos given if you are a secondary school teacher in the state system than to infant/primary teachers although I found secondary teaching, especially my stint at sixth form college, a piece of cake compared to the life of a teacher of young children. I could no more teach six year olds than I could pole dance at Spearmint Rhino.
> I remember at one of my PGCE lectures being told that teaching was not a 'profession' as it had no independent governing body that was responsible for allowing entrance, unlike the medical or legal professions. My Union fought long and hard for a General Teachers Council which we've now got but although we speak of having professional status, I doubt that's how the public sees it.
> Teaching, the police, social work, nursing...none of these would be generally termed 'professions' . Yet teaching and nursing are now all-graduate entry, the police isn't and I don't think you need to have a degree to be a social worker, although some kind of qualification is required.
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Pesky Wesky;6520721(It was my first real taste of being looked down on for being a student/ professional of the world of Education said:
> 
> 
> > Very true still, unless of course you teach at a public school or private establishment....
> ...


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

if you were coming on your own, had sufficient funds and not in need of regular work then I would say no problem

Bringing out 2 young people to a country ,where the young people see no future in their own country, would be in my humble opinion plain wrong. We have friends here, one of their sons is at university in Madrid, studying Aeronautical engineering, he dreads the course ending because he knows he may have to go elsewhere, his brother 18, has given up and its so sad to see. I cannot comment on the education system here, I can only comment on what I see and read.

As an aside, you may be learning Spanish before you come over, and that is brilliant, but learning Spanish and then studying and being educated in Spanish is a little different. 

I wish you well in whatever and where ever you decided to go


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