# Is our plan to move to Spain feasible??



## ruro (Apr 21, 2017)

My boyfriend and I are planning on moving to Spain next year. He works as a musician and I am a personal trainer and yoga teacher. We would like to live near the beach and the mountains in a small town. 
We are thinking Javea area as he could drive to gigs in the bigger towns like Alicante and Benidorm and then maybe get some local gigs too. We will have a 1 year old daughter when we plan to move. 
Is this a feasible plan or are we being unrealistic? Rent is just ridiculous here in Ireland and it’s not viable to bring up a child and pay rent and bills on a musicians wage here. We would love to move somewhere with cheaper rent and cost of living and also nice weather and laid back lifestyle as we are both very laid back people. 
We wouldn’t have much money going over because it’s impossible to save here…we’d probably only have about €5,000 or so. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

:welcome:

I live in Jávea & love it here - but it's really expensive when compared to nearby towns

You can expect up to half of that 5000€ to disappear as soon as you arrive, just on the first month rent, deposit & agent fees. 

Even if you find somewhere less expensive in a nearby town, in order to register as resident (which is a legal requirement if you plan to be here more than 90 days) , you would need to show far more funds than 5000€ - & also private healthcare.

We moved here a long time ago, before these requirements were brought in, & I am self-employed. I pay nearly 300€ a month just in social security contributions, plus income tax on top of that - & as a gigging musician your boyfriend would have to do the same - regardless of his income.

I know quite a few gigging musicians, some of whom have built solid reputations over the years & get regular work. NONE earn enough for it to be their main income.

Personal trainers & yoga teachers here charge about 6€ a class for groups - maybe 15€ one to one..... and also have to pay out social security & income tax - plus public liability insurance.


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## ruro (Apr 21, 2017)

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate the information you provided. 

Do gigging musician's not get paid in cash? I thought he could get paid in cash and not have to pay taxes? (what he does in Ireland) 

If we managed to save more money, say €10,000, could we then register as residents and work for cash?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ruro said:


> Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate the information you provided.
> 
> Do gigging musician's not get paid in cash? I thought he could get paid in cash and not have to pay taxes? (what he does in Ireland)
> 
> If we managed to save more money, say €10,000, could we then register as residents and work for cash?


In your opening post you mentioned the expense of bringing up a child. If you moved to Spain presumably you'd expect your child to have access to medical care and state education, plus medical treatment for you and your partner should you need it, access to emergency services if required, roads to drive on, public amenities and perhaps use public transport. If so, why do you think you should be able to live here without contributing anything towards the cost of those things in taxes, but just working for cash? I'd love to be able to keep all my pension income for myself and not have the inconvenience of paying tax, but that's neither possible nor fair.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ruro said:


> Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate the information you provided.
> 
> Do gigging musician's not get paid in cash? I thought he could get paid in cash and not have to pay taxes? (what he does in Ireland)
> 
> If we managed to save more money, say €10,000, could we then register as residents and work for cash?


Working for cash & not declaring & paying income tax is against the law.

Some might do it - & it was probably easy to do so at one time, but now the police regularly check venues. They check that they have the required music licences & that performers are registered as self-employed, or that they have work contracts with the venues. I've known gigs to be cancelled just as they were about to start - or even after they had started. I've heard of musicians having their equipment confiscated. 

Isn't it like that in Ireland?


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## ruro (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. It's just that musician's usually get paid cash at the end of their gig as that is how bars / clubs etc seem to prefer to pay them here in Ireland so I presumed it was like that everywhere. 

Sounds like it works differently in Spain which is interesting! So he would need to register as self employed and then show the venue proof of this before a gig I guess? I presume they still pay in cash though and not transfer the money to his account. 

Thanks again for all the info, it's so helpful!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ruro said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. It's just that musician's usually get paid cash at the end of their gig as that is how bars / clubs etc seem to prefer to pay them here in Ireland so I presumed it was like that everywhere.
> 
> Sounds like it works differently in Spain which is interesting! So he would need to register as self employed and then show the venue proof of this before a gig I guess? I presume they still pay in cash though and not transfer the money to his account.
> 
> Thanks again for all the info, it's so helpful!


Some will pay cash, some will transfer it to a bank account.

You still have to declare it & issue an invoice.

Mostly I get paid in cash, though I've managed to persuade some of my students to pay by bank transfer. I have to produce an invoice for each student though, & submit them to the tax office quarterly.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

ruro said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. It's just that musician's usually get paid cash at the end of their gig as that is how bars / clubs etc seem to prefer to pay them here in Ireland so I presumed it was like that everywhere.
> 
> Sounds like it works differently in Spain which is interesting! So he would need to register as self employed and then show the venue proof of this before a gig I guess? I presume they still pay in cash though and not transfer the money to his account.
> 
> Thanks again for all the info, it's so helpful!



Sorry it's no different in Ireland or England being paid in cash does not negate paying taxes, either your self employed or working on the black and it's illegal in Ireland, UK and Spain 

First you need to be looking at residency requirements

Proof of income €600 pppp Variable 
Proof of healthcare 
Rental contract


The cost of living may well be cheaper here, although I'm not totally convinced of that, however wages are lower and work is scarce


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Three of you need to prove an income of around 2000 euros a month paid into a Spanish bank account, plus savings, plus health insurance.
There are no benefits here as in the UK, no Housing Benefit for example if you are on a low wage.
Working on the black, i.e tax dodging, is not only illegal but is part of a culture that has contributed to Spain's problems. When you come to live and work here you pay tax, sign on the padron, pay road tax, which is what we do on this Forum .
Not doing so is not living in Spain, it's living off Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Many musicians do get paid in cash, it can't be denied, but just like most other countries in the world it is of course illegal because you're not paying any tax and you would undoubtedly be using things like street lighting, roads, sewerage and infrastructures that are paid for out of our taxes.
I think it's very risky in your chosen professions to come here and think that you will earn enough to support your little family. Both musicians and people involved in personal health are victims of the market and that is ever changing and ever shifting.
It could work however, it's difficult to say. In some ways now is a good time as your daughter is so young. In some ways it isn't because you don't have a lot of money to time you over...
A good time to aim for for you is September as that's when most people sign up for new courses, September/ October. Your partner might find that Easter is a good time to be looking for work if you're in a touristy area.
Come over for holidays out of season and see what's going on in the music/ yoga scene. Get more info before you take the plunge


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