# Help! Moving to Kansai.



## Frasek

Hello!

I'm in the process of securing a teaching job and moving to the Kansai area (Kobe/Osaka). (April, 2012)

I was hoping someone could give me some advice on where I should live and how much I should expect to be paying monthly.

The position would be in Kobe & they are paying between 220,000-250,000 yen a month. Is this a decent salary? Is it livable? I don't want to be living hand to mouth. Especially since I'll be taxed twice (Japan & U.S.)

The company will be giving me a 15,000 yen transportation allowance per month.

A little about me, I'm a 24-year-old American woman. I've worked for a Fortune 500 corporation for about a year now. Teaching English in Japan is something I've wanted to do since college, so I figured it's now or never!

Any advice would me much appreciated!


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## Guest

*Help! Moving to Kansai*



Frasek said:


> Hello!
> 
> I'm in the process of securing a teaching job and moving to the Kansai area (Kobe/Osaka). (April, 2012)
> 
> I was hoping someone could give me some advice on where I should live and how much I should expect to be paying monthly.
> 
> The position would be in Kobe & they are paying between 220,000-250,000 yen a month. Is this a decent salary? Is it livable? I don't want to be living hand to mouth. Especially since I'll be taxed twice (Japan & U.S.)
> 
> The company will be giving me a 15,000 yen transportation allowance per month.
> 
> A little about me, I'm a 24-year-old American woman. I've worked for a Fortune 500 corporation for about a year now. Teaching English in Japan is something I've wanted to do since college, so I figured it's now or never!
> 
> Check search engines under Sakura houses and other guest houses that cater to foreigners. These are rooms to rent with shared facilities such as bathroom and kitchen. They are cheaper than apartments. What you mentioned is about average salary for an ALT, hired by international Language schools. The stipend for transportation is generous. Life in Japan is expensive, especially the food. I live in Tokyo, the most expensive city in Japan, Osaka is the second most expensive city in Japan. The income you'll have is do-able. it's up to you and your life style. If your sponsor has company housing available for you, you can save a bundle. If they will help you find housing without the fees for a guarantor, that;s even better. If they don't offer any of the above, your best bet is to find a guest house. You will have help there, other young people who can show you the ropes. Just be open and realize that things are different here. I moved here in October last year. Everything is smaller here, the food packages, the apartments, the rooms, the sinks, the stores, etc. To save money, shop at the 100 yen stores, the equivalent to the US Dollar stores. For bananas I paid about 198 yen for 4 of them. Get used to the Metro system, it takes a while. Good luck and welcome to Japan
> Petra


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## Frasek

Hmm, I will check Sakura house out, thanks!

I'd kind of like a breakdown of living expenses...any insight to how much you pay in Japanese and U.S. taxes?

I'd kind of like my own place. My company doesn't have housing, but they said they will act as my guarantor, although, they don't think I'll need one.

The transportation stipend is nice, but where in Kansai should I live? In Kobe, or Osaka? In between? I'd like to be somewhere where I am able to meet people and go out for some sort of nightlife. I've heard Kobe can be kind of dead on the weekends.

Thanks!


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## Guest

*Help! Moving to Kansai*



Frasek said:


> Hmm, I will check Sakura house out, thanks!
> 
> I'd kind of like a breakdown of living expenses...any insight to how much you pay in Japanese and U.S. taxes?
> 
> I'd kind of like my own place. My company doesn't have housing, but they said they will act as my guarantor, although, they don't think I'll need one.
> 
> The transportation stipend is nice, but where in Kansai should I live? In Kobe, or Osaka? In between? I'd like to be somewhere where I am able to meet people and go out for some sort of nightlife. I've heard Kobe can be kind of dead on the weekends.
> 
> Thanks!


Hi, I have a friend who lives in Osaka, who is Japanese. He told me about some bars there. I have e-mailed him and asked him what you need to know. Hopefully he'll respond soon and I will post it here. You need to bring some money with you until the first pay check kicks in, there are fees besides guarantor fees: move in fees, insurance, etc. I don't know about taxes, you might want to post that separately as a thread as a thread here. As far as a breakdown on living expenses, just google it, also osaka, kobe, etc. One thing is important when you get here: establish a network of friends. Otherwise you might get lost, that's why I suggested the guesthouse. I live in one, sure I don't like it either, but it's just temporary. Unless you have a few thousand $$ with you, it might be tough, getting into your own place.


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## Frasek

I am hoping to establish some great new friends! Im only apprehensive about a guest house because of privacy and waiting to use bathrooms and such... But otherwise a definite possibility.

How long did it take you to settle in and make new friends? Im a little afraid of being isolated and lonely, but that isnt enough to deter me.


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## Rube

25 salary
- 4 taxes
- 8~10 rent
- 3 utilities
- 4 food
------------
6 left over for fun and your college bills. 

The reality is that 250,000 a month is enough to live on but it sucks.


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## kotsubu

I've lived in Osaka for the past 15 years or so and now have a house halfway between Osaka and Kyoto. Now a university lecturer. Worked at a high school and language school a long time ago.

Osaka is the best place for night life simply because it is the largest center. Osaka city itself has a population of about 3 million, Osaka prefecture (quite small) is about 8 million. But Kobe isn't THAT small. I think the population is around 1 million. There are bars and nightlife in Kobe, and it is easy to get into Osaka by train. Hankyu or JR both take around 20 minute to get into Umeda. Bars and nightclubs in Osaka are mostly in Umeda, and between Namba and Shinsaibashi. It is definitely cheaper to not live very close to areas with lots of night life in Osaka. When I was younger and single I had a lot of ALT friends who lived outside of the city itself who would just stay out and party all night. Some bars will keep going until the first train in the morning. 

That salary isn't all that great, but you can live on it. You can also probably get some side jobs on the side teaching private students. (Don't tell your employer but it is widely done.) After being here a short while it could be possible to jump ship and get a better job if it isn't to your liking. I don't know if the visa laws have changed for your category but it used to be that people weren't bound to stay with one employer. I had a couple friends who worked for language schools like GEOS or ALT jobs (INTERACT) who quit to get what they thought was a better job. 

Making friends is dead easy. There are tons of gaijin (foreingers) around from other English speaking countries. The kind of people that get hired for teaching English are generally outgoing, friendly, approachable, talkative etc. Also many Japanese people are interested in making friends with an American. There is a lot to see and do in this area and lots of different groups to join. Be open and pro-active and you won't have any problem getting a social group. 

You can think about the Sakura house kind of option, but I wouldn't count on that for very long. In Osaka there are a couple guest houses called Banana House and Orange house. I stayed at one for a month in the distant past. It was OK. It is a relatively inexpensive way to have your own small space, but hardly a home. Best for your situation might be to try to find someone looking for a roommate. 

By the way the traveling expenses is not a big deal. It is a GIVEN in Japan. As far as I know everyone gets commuting costs paid. Normally the employer uses your address to calculate the cost of public transportation and adds this to your salary. 

You can PM me if you have any specific questions about this area.


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## Guest

*Help! Moving to Kansai*



Frasek said:


> I am hoping to establish some great new friends! Im only apprehensive about a guest house because of privacy and waiting to use bathrooms and such... But otherwise a definite possibility.
> 
> How long did it take you to settle in and make new friends? Im a little afraid of being isolated and lonely, but that isnt enough to deter me.


I'm sure you will. I understand your apprehension about a guest house. I am still living it, but now I have my private half bath, a fridge and a microwave, the room is large and cheap for living in the Roppongi area in tokyo, meaning downtown.
I have a church network here I can rely on. Just get with people and hang out with them, you'll be fine. It's normal to feel apprehensive about stepping outside of your comfort zone and moving to a different culture. It took me about 1-2 weeks to make friends. It helps also to have Japanese as friends as they can help you translate when you need to run errands. I agree with the other forum members who wrote a reply on your thread.
The income is do-able but not a whole lot. You might look for tutoring jobs online as a side income. When you're here, you might want to take a trip to Kyoto, close to the area down there, the old capital of Japan, for sight seeing. Also there is a photography studio that takes pics of any woman dressed up like a geisha, it costs 5000 yen, though. I hope to hear from my Japanese friend soon. In the meantime take to heart what Kobutsu wrote.
genkide, Petra
ps: I don't know how your Japanese skills are, but lern some common phrases for everyday use such as thank you : arigatou, I'm sorry: sumimasen, please: o-negai shimasu ...... you'll get the hang of it soon


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## Frasek

Great answers! Ultimately I was hoping I wouldnt have to do side jobs for extra money, but here in the states I have already been working OT for 7 out of the 9 months Ive been in the corporate world, so it wont be too bad teaching some extra hours at my work or doing some side tutoring. That's life.

My company did say they would help me find housing. It's a small private school, which is who I wanted to work for. Not a giant ALT dispatcher, haha. They said I'll be looking at prices starting around 60,000 yen a month for rent.

I make friends quite easily in the States, so we'll see how it goes. I think a roommate would be ideal, but i'm ok with living alone. The key money just boggles my mind, so I'd like to avoid that!

Kobe will probably be where I end up living. I'd prefer not to commute from Osaka every day, but I was curious as to how many others do it. 15-20 mins is really the max i want to spend walking out my front door to my workplace.

I am very excited to come to Japan. This has been an ongoing dream for me, so I want to be sure that I dont ruin my time by living too far, to expensively, or being broke. I do have money saved up from working, but would like to keep it that way! I just want to limit the amount of unpleasant surprises.

Thanks!


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## Guest

*Help! Moving to Kansai*



Frasek said:


> Great answers! Ultimately I was hoping I wouldnt have to do side jobs for extra money, but here in the states I have already been working OT for 7 out of the 9 months Ive been in the corporate world, so it wont be too bad teaching some extra hours at my work or doing some side tutoring. That's life.
> 
> My company did say they would help me find housing. It's a small private school, which is who I wanted to work for. Not a giant ALT dispatcher, haha. They said I'll be looking at prices starting around 60,000 yen a month for rent.
> 
> I make friends quite easily in the States, so we'll see how it goes. I think a roommate would be ideal, but i'm ok with living alone. The key money just boggles my mind, so I'd like to avoid that!
> 
> Kobe will probably be where I end up living. I'd prefer not to commute from Osaka every day, but I was curious as to how many others do it. 15-20 mins is really the max i want to spend walking out my front door to my workplace.
> 
> I am very excited to come to Japan. This has been an ongoing dream for me, so I want to be sure that I dont ruin my time by living too far, to expensively, or being broke. I do have money saved up from working, but would like to keep it that way! I just want to limit the amount of unpleasant surprises.
> 
> Thanks!


You're welcome Japanese people are more reserved and aren't the huggy type like Americans are. Just expect to find for your rent money about way less space than what you are accustomed to. Of course, rents increase the closer you move to the center of town. if you need a network of foreign women working in Japan here is one: beingabroad.com - being abroad Resources and Information. This website is for sale! they offer an active social life. once you get here, buy a passmo or suica card for travelling by train, it's easier instead of buying a ticket everytime you travel.


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## larabell

marzipan said:


> once you get here, buy a passmo or suica card for travelling by train, it's easier instead of buying a ticket everytime you travel.


For someone planning to live in Kobe (or Osaka, for that matter), it would be an ICOCA card. Suica is JR East (covering Kanto and areas further North). Passmo, I believe, is limited to the Kanto area. I believe Suica and ICOCA cards can be used at JR stations in both Kanto and Kansai but you can't buy Suica cards in Kansai, as far as I know. I have no idea whether the subways and busses in Kansai accept ICOCA or whether they have a prepaid card system at all.

BTW, it appears that being-a-broad website is defunct. The domain is parked on some generic advertising site.


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## Frasek

I had signed up for the abroad website, but was never approved as a member, so I kind of thought something was amiss. 

I will absolutely sign up for a train pass. 

What time frame is recommended for me to move to japan before my job starts? I'll need time for apartment searching and setting up various accounts and acquainting myself to the area and such. One week, two?

Thank you everyone for all of your answers. Its been very helpful to me.


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## Guest

I know that website for women had changed so I'm not sure if it's the old one I gave you, sorry about that. They are not good about answering back because I tried several times. My friend from Osaka e-mailed me back about places to visit at night and guesthouses. I will give you the night places but not the guest house ones since you want to live in an apartment. I do know that sakura has separate apartments here in Tokyo for rent , I don't know about the Osaka area.
/SNIP/


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## Frasek

Thank you for the bars! 

I'd like to go back to the apartment topic a little bit:

Do you know if it's cheaper to live between Kobe & Osaka or in one city or the other? I'm fine with living in Kobe, especially if it's a fun city. I've heard a bit about there being a decent expat community in Kobe, so that's comforting. (My work is there)

Do you think it's possible to find an apartment w/out a key money payment? Any links you may be able to provide for leasing companies? My company said they will help me find a place and act as a guarantor, but they're a pretty small school, so I dont know what connections they have.

Also, any leads on finding roommates? I'm not opposed to a guest house in the beginning, but I would like to transition to an apartment.

Links would be much appreciated.

Thank you!!


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## Rube

Wow, apartments in the west are so cheap! I had no idea. Half the price I gave on apartments to find a decent place for one person.


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## Guest

*Help! Moving to Kansai*



Frasek said:


> Thank you for the bars!
> 
> I'd like to go back to the apartment topic a little bit:
> 
> Do you know if it's cheaper to live between Kobe & Osaka or in one city or the other? I'm fine with living in Kobe, especially if it's a fun city. I've heard a bit about there being a decent expat community in Kobe, so that's comforting. (My work is there)
> 
> Do you think it's possible to find an apartment w/out a key money payment? Any links you may be able to provide for leasing companies? My company said they will help me find a place and act as a guarantor, but they're a pretty small school, so I dont know what connections they have.
> 
> Also, any leads on finding roommates? I'm not opposed to a guest house in the beginning, but I would like to transition to an apartment.
> 
> Links would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thank you!!


You're welcome  It is possible to find an apartment without key money, but there are other fees, insurance and mandatory upkeep and cleaning bills on a monthly basis, depending on who you're renting from. I can't say about the Kansai region but will get in touch with my friend in Osaka again.
BTW how did you secure this job overseas if you don't mind my asking?
I don't know about room mates, they have plenty of them there in any guesthouse. Picking one I never had to deal with. Why don't you e-mail some of the guest houses and ask them. Surely they will tell you how this works


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## kotsubu

Frasek said:


> Thank you for the bars!
> 
> I'd like to go back to the apartment topic a little bit:
> 
> Do you know if it's cheaper to live between Kobe & Osaka or in one city or the other? I'm fine with living in Kobe, especially if it's a fun city. I've heard a bit about there being a decent expat community in Kobe, so that's comforting. (My work is there)
> 
> Do you think it's possible to find an apartment w/out a key money payment? Any links you may be able to provide for leasing companies? My company said they will help me find a place and act as a guarantor, but they're a pretty small school, so I dont know what connections they have.
> 
> Also, any leads on finding roommates? I'm not opposed to a guest house in the beginning, but I would like to transition to an apartment.
> 
> Links would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thank you!!



Probably Kobe and Osaka are similar in prices. Somewhere between the two might be a bit cheaper. (Amagasaki for example.) Like anywhere else the more you get off the beaten track the cheaper it is, the closer to the center of everything the more expensive. 

Here's the think about key money - I think of it as being more like upfront rent. If you pay 120,000 for skikikin and reikin, it is the same as if they were charging you 5000 more per month (for two years). There are some places without key money. I know there are (or were) some foreign landlords in the Osaka - Kobe area that rented out apartments for first and last only, but I found them more expensive. 6 years ago some guy had a 2DL apartment in Namba for 120,000/month (no key money) and said it was really cheap. (walking distance to night clubs.) I got a 2DK through a normal Japanese company for 70,000.

There are a few magazines here where people advertise for roommates (and aparments) but a lot of it is on the internet now. There is 'Kansai Time out', 'Japanzine' for magazines and gaijin pot for internet. If you can arrange a guest house to stay in for a month when you land then you are find arriving just before your contract begins. I'd take your schools offer to help find a place. They will just use the normal fudoya (realtor) shops to find something nearish. 

15 minutes walking time is probably not realistic. You should count one something more along the lines of 20-30 minutes including a train. That's just the way it is. If you DID live in Osaka you would have to stand on a jam packed train every morning to get to Kobe.


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## kotsubu

Frasek said:


> Great answers! Ultimately I was hoping I wouldnt have to do side jobs for extra money, but here in the states I have already been working OT for 7 out of the 9 months Ive been in the corporate world, so it wont be too bad teaching some extra hours at my work or doing some side tutoring. That's life.


I'd say you wouldn't have to do a side job to get by. The government mandates a minimum a foreign worker must be paid so that they can get by. But if you wanted some extra money there have always been many people who made some nice extra coin on the side doing private teaching. I had a friend several years ago who taught several students (both Frend and English) privately on the side and from what he said he lived off of that income and saved all of his regular income. Most people prefer to have a bit of a life. I'm just saying there are possibilities if you want them (don't tell your company directly).


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## kotsubu

Where is this school located exactly? I might be able to give you some idea of the surrounding area, where you might want to live and hang out nearby etc.


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## Frasek

I am fine with commuting for 30 mins. That's about how long it takes me to drive to work in the states, anyway.

The more I think about it, a guest house is a great place to start. I can meet people and look for an apartment while getting a feel for the area. Maybe find a roommate there! Great advice everyone!

The job is in Chuo ward of Kobe, the city center. So I'm fine with living a little further out as long as, like I said, the commute isn't killer.

I found this job online and applied for it. I'm in my mid 20s, have corporate work experience, a degree, and am published. No teaching experience, though. But, I think a lot of people who apply have never worked a full time job before teaching abroad.

Thanks guys!


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## kotsubu

Frasek said:


> The job is in Chuo ward of Kobe, the city center.


That's a good location. Sannomiya is pretty much the city center so there will be lots of places to go out to after work nearby. Kobe is a lovely city. If I hadn't built a house where I did I would probably prefer Kobe over Osaka.


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## Frasek

Kobe was my top choice. I wanted to live in a big city, but not a metropolis. Osaka was up there with Kobe, but I'm so close it's not even an issue.

I have heard great things about Kobe's cleanliness, fashion, architecture and geographic location. I am very pleased and am excited to work with a small company, not an ALT dispatcher.

What section of Kobe is a good place to rent?

I'm looking forward to teaching--and meeting new friends. I feel lucky and sososo excited!!


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## kotsubu

Best place to live? ..... within 4 - 6 train stops of your work. It is a very compact city hemmed in by the mountains on one side and the bay on the other. Everything is pretty close, and the streets are easy to get around by bicycle. I'd say your best bet is to stay at a guest house for the first month, talk to co-workers and others you meet and either find a roommate on your own, or use the time to get a feel for the area to get your company to help you find something cheap and close. One thing - if you want to travel around to Osaka and Kyoto being on, or near either JR or Hankyu (train lines going east-west) would make those travels that much quicker and more convenient.


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