# Buy quad safari business Costa Del Sol?



## JamesInTheSun (Jun 25, 2015)

Hi all - first time post...nice to meet you!!, 
Myself and my girlfriend are coming to Costa Del Sol next weekend from England to look at a quad and buggy safari business. The advert said strong profits and little competition, just one other 50kms away. 

However, Having done some reasearch there are at least 11 i found so obviously competition is going to be strong!!

Also there are 3 or 4 currently for sale which worries me. Is there a saturation in the market and people are struggling? Has there been any recent changes in law that anyone knows of please, ie licences for getting permission to run such a business? Driving licence changes so its more difficult for tourists to ride the quads and buggies? Restrictions to routes etc. It just seems a little odd to me that businesses advertised as trading strongly are selling up.

We would love to emigrate to Costa Del Sol and buying something fun like this is very appealing (we plan to rent for 6months then buy) so any local knowledge would be really appreciated!!

Thank you
James


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JamesInTheSun said:


> Hi all - first time post...nice to meet you!!,
> Myself and my girlfriend are coming to Costa Del Sol next weekend from England to look at a quad and buggy safari business. The advert said strong profits and little competition, just one other 50kms away.
> 
> However, Having done some reasearch there are at least 11 i found so obviously competition is going to be strong!!
> ...


I don't know anything about it, but I just wanted to say that you are absolutely right to be questioning this


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## Libbyzx (Aug 7, 2014)

JamesInTheSun said:


> Hi all - first time post...nice to meet you!!,
> Myself and my girlfriend are coming to Costa Del Sol next weekend from England to look at a quad and buggy safari business. The advert said strong profits and little competition, just one other 50kms away.
> 
> However, Having done some reasearch there are at least 11 i found so obviously competition is going to be strong!!
> ...


Hi.
You say the seller told you both that only one other like it some distance away yet you find eleven others, what other lies has the seller told you both.

Maybe strong profits are to be had, if the charge is for the hour and 20 euros is the cost yet the it only cost the owner a basic 5 euros to rent the buggy out. How many times a day is this happening, one or two hours and you have lost.

Another three or four of this business for sale might also tell you that no trade is to be had for your chosen dream.

I guess if your retiring and have made a good few bucks then this could be the reason.

Why not sit outside on a nice day and see who and how many rent the buggys, not forgetting now that you may have picked on the only best day of the week.
Wish you well.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Donkey tours, buggy safaris, all that kind of stuff...the market round here is indeed saturated.
The vendor is obviously desperate to sell, hence the porkies.
Caveat emptor, as the saying goes.


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## JamesInTheSun (Jun 25, 2015)

Thank you for the replies so far, much appreciated.

Its a 3 or 6hour guided quad or buggy safari which charges ?130 for the 3 hours. 

We havent spoken much with the Seller as yet, most dealings have been via the agent; it was on the advert about the lack of competition. 

He has shown very good and healthy turnover and profit figures on the advert and says he has the accounts to prove this. The flight and hotel is booked so at the very least if he cant substantiate this we will have a nice few days in the sun  So all wouldnt be lost!

We are both mid-thirties looking for a change of lifestyle after selling our property.

Thanks again
James


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## JamesInTheSun (Jun 25, 2015)

His stated reason for sale is retirement


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

JamesInTheSun said:


> Thank you for the replies so far, much appreciated.
> 
> Its a 3 or 6hour guided quad or buggy safari which charges ?130 for the 3 hours.
> 
> ...


Well, of course, he would say all that, wouldn't he.....to quote the immortal Miss Mandy Rice-Davies.

I don't know how you'd go about checking that the accounts haven't been made up, easy thing to do....Maybe by asking for bank account details for the business, checking on how much was paid regularly into the business account..


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## Libbyzx (Aug 7, 2014)

JamesInTheSun said:


> Thank you for the replies so far, much appreciated.
> 
> Its a 3 or 6hour guided quad or buggy safari which charges ?130 for the 3 hours.
> 
> ...


I dont know how old you have to be or the need to retire in Spain but if the honest seller turns out to be a little older then yourselves then suspicions must be aroused as to the retiring.

I do know you have to have a payment towards the social system every month, could you search and find out if this payment rises and falls every month as income rises and falls that might indicate turnover.

I would also do a double check on the turn-over figures for the winter period
as I just don't see the Spanish paying the amount that is quoted so it could be for the visiter section only.

I once had a friend who sold, well tried to, his business back home and quoted high monthly figures as the turnover but forgot to mention the trade only lasted during the good weather months, dropped to nearly zero other months.

Just be sure your dream don't turn into a nightmare.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Libbyzx said:


> I dont know how old you have to be or the need to retire in Spain but if the honest seller turns out to be a little older then yourselves then suspicions must be aroused as to the retiring.
> 
> I do know you have to have a payment towards the social system every month, could you search and find out if this payment rises and falls every month as income rises and falls that might indicate turnover.
> 
> ...



The autonomo/self employed payment you have to make every month is the same regardless of what you earn. AFAIK, at the moment it can start out on a reduced rate, but rises. Its not dependent on income. You also have tax to pay and I'm sure you'll have public insurances to pay, and they wont be cheap. Then there's maintenance by professionals, storage costs and where to ride them??? will you have to pay to use land to ride/tour ????..... and as previously mentioned the winter months... when its wet and not many tourists. 

I had a friend who once had the idea of renting segways, but the further he looked into it, the more complicated, expensive, with low return it became.



Jo xxx


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

A friend started a business a decade ago in Cataluña. He was told by his Spanish accountant to keep two sets of books - one for the taxman and one for himself with the real figures. I imagine anyone selling a business might have a third set, showing less expenses and more profit?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Fraudulent accounting is a criminal offence in the UK....maybe one day in Spain..:fingerscrossed:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Fraudulent accounting is a criminal offence in the UK....maybe one day in Spain..:fingerscrossed:


I would imagine it is illegal. Getting caught and then getting that prosecution through the courts is more likely to be the problem


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

its not this one is it 

Marbella Buggies | Marbella Buggys Adventure Safari in Marbella - Estepona


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

soulboy said:


> its not this one is it
> 
> Marbella Buggies | Marbella Buggys Adventure Safari in Marbella - Estepona


That one is building a nice little tripadvisor history. 

I think I'd look at investing in that if:

The pounds I'd put in bought Euros at more than 1.40 (ok today but may not be the case in a few months time).
The business was handed over gradually (say a year) maintaining staff, suppliers, goodwill (and the former owner couldn't pop up down the road).
The price was right based on true asset value.
The return for investors was set at a minimum of 5 years (all profits re-invested).
That the managers to be put in had or had access to good marketing skills.
That the managers to be put in had or had access to good language skills (minimum fluent English/Spanish).
A detailed costed business plan was in place.
An exit strategy was set not based on increasing debt (fully funded).

The main attraction for me would be that the success does not depend on Spanish recovery. In truth non Spanish recovery may favour this type of business.

I would like to see also a costed set up plan for the equivalent business (starting from scratch). Only interested in that to set value expectations.

But OP if you do look for investors get in touch. And if not all the very best of luck


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> That one is building a nice little tripadvisor history.
> 
> I think I'd look at investing in that if:
> 
> ...


Nice little business...but is it for sale? Do they want investors?
Would a business of that size want 'investors'? How many employees do you need to run a business like that? Not many is my guess. Certainly no need of 'managers'. Again I'm guessing the owner is the manager and office staff, as with most PYMEs.
If it were mine, I'd find my own capital if needed to expand the business so I didn't have to look over my shoulder the whole time.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Certainly no need of 'managers'.


It was only a suggestion Mary and hopefully the OP might find it interesting and if you don't ask you don't know. 

Maybe the word investor sounds scary but in truth (a one in a million possibility) I am looking to finance my BIL.

With my backing he has money.
He has years of tourist industry experience.
He speaks fluent Spanish, Italian and English with tourist French, German and Russian).
He has boat captain and diving qualifications so can diversify.
He is in my opinion a great salesman.

He will move from the Canaries to the Peninsula soon so his wife can better pursue her career (although that could be anywhere on the peninsula.

Now if I was a Brit buying a buggy business I might find that interesting.

For sure these guys might be looking to keep it in the family but they will need help. And with at least ten buggies they'll need employees for sure.

But as I say just throwing something in to the pot


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> It was only a suggestion Mary and hopefully the OP might find it interesting and if you don't ask you don't know.
> 
> Maybe the word investor sounds scary but in truth (a one in a million possibility) I am looking to finance my BIL.
> 
> ...


But are they asking for help? Seems they are established and doing well, not looking for a buyer or investors. They will probably have the owner/manager, couple of guides, a mechanic or two...doesn't seem they're a limited company. 
Lending your bil money to get started is a good idea, although family business can sometimes bring problems, but you'll be aware of that, I'm sure. You know him, you know his abilities.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> It was only a suggestion Mary and hopefully the OP might find it interesting and if you don't ask you don't know.
> 
> Maybe the word investor sounds scary but in truth (a one in a million possibility) I am looking to finance my BIL.
> 
> ...


But are they asking for help? Seems they are established and doing well, not looking for a buyer or investors. They will probably have the owner/manager, couple of guides, a mechanic or two...doesn't seem they're a limited company. 
Lending your bil money to get started is a good idea, although family business can sometimes bring problems, but you'll be aware of that, I'm sure. You know him, you know his abilities. So very small risk.

But we're talking small-scale here and we're not really talking shareholders and investors. 

Are Spanish banks willing to lend to anyone with a sound, well-researched business plan, I wonder? After all, I'm guessing that just as in the UK, small businesses with fewer than five or so employees constitute a very large percentage - over 70% - of all economic activity.

I think the OP is looking to buy and has the cash to do so. The real question is whether the business he's looking at is worth the risk. I note that there are several companies operating similar buggy type businesses around Marbella and I'm guessing the market is not that huge...but I don't know.
A lot of market research needed .


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> But are they asking for help?


Mary think we are talking at cross purposes here. I'm talking to the OP 

You're right when you ask "is it worth the risk". I'm just throwing into the ring an option - an option that lowers risk - nothing more.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If I were planning on investing in Spain -which I'm not - I'd be looking at medium-sized enterprises offering skilled employment, something away from the tourism/leisure sector. 
The bedrock of any economy will always be the small businesses, one or two person bands, but the service sector is the icing on the cake, not the cake, and I would be looking to manufacturing, hi-tech 'modern manufacturing, maybe in the solar energy field, maybe in more established sectors like the more specialised motor industry. 
When times are hard, the rich don't suffer - they usually do well out of the hardship of others! - so I'd be looking at the top end of the market.

One of the many reasons why the German economy does so well is its backbone of medium-sized often family owned and run firms offering a high value-added product, either as an end in itself or manufacturing for other larger companies. It's known as the Mittelstand. Spain doesn't sem to have such an established medium-sized sector, it's either small or large...no in-between.
I had to go to the local poligono this morning to get the aircon on my car fixed. Whilst waiting I had a wander round....loads of small unit workshops offering the same services. The only larger units were occupied by cheap furniture wholesalers. 
I also had a great desayuno in a transport café -type place, tall glass of café solo, tall glass of freshly juiced orange, fresh bread, bacon, eggs...7 euros...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> Mary think we are talking at cross purposes here. I'm talking to the OP
> 
> .



I know Albo, I wrote this:

*I think the OP is looking to buy and has the cash to do so.*

Btw, did you know that the UK Foreign Office is warning tourists that Spain is a 'high risk' area for tourism, ranked the same as Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco?
Do you think people will be put off?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I know Albo, I wrote this:
> 
> *I think the OP is looking to buy and has the cash to do so.*
> 
> ...


I saw that report yesterday and was puzzled as to why that should be. France is classed in the same category, which I can understand after the recent events there, but why Spain? Obviously there are jihadists here as well as just about everywhere else, but (not wanting to tempt fate) I haven't heard of any actual terrorist attacks in recent years.

I suppose people will have to go on holiday somewhere, and as far as the British are concerned I was reading over the weekend that the threat level is considered very high there too, so they'd be no safer if they holidayed at home.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I know Albo, I wrote this:
> 
> *I think the OP is looking to buy and has the cash to do so.*


Just trying to offer a widening of thought. Wouldn't want the OP to cancel plans without knowing other options exist. 



mrypg9 said:


> Btw, did you know that the UK Foreign Office is warning tourists that Spain is a 'high risk' area for tourism, ranked the same as Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco?
> Do you think people will be put off?


That is an interesting one. But in the end if you paint Europe red where will the people go? Are they any safer in Bournemouth or London for that matter ??

So I think it is short-term although perhaps a thought for the OP if he jumps in and there is an incident he may need to ride a stormy period and insurance rates could go up.

The country I have sympathy with is Tunisia. I think they will suffer economically. And not very helpful to Greece either with their proximity to a sad sick Turkey 

But things move very fast these days lane:


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## Libbyzx (Aug 7, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> If I were planning on investing in Spain -which I'm not - I'd be looking at medium-sized enterprises offering skilled employment, something away from the tourism/leisure sector.
> The bedrock of any economy will always be the small businesses, one or two person bands, but the service sector is the icing on the cake, not the cake, and I would be looking to manufacturing, hi-tech 'modern manufacturing, maybe in the solar energy field, maybe in more established sectors like the more specialised motor industry.
> When times are hard, the rich don't suffer - they usually do well out of the hardship of others! - so I'd be looking at the top end of the market.
> 
> ...


I am to believe Germany has a population of over Eighty Million, whilst Spain has only Forty Six Million.
That helps when it comes to manufacturing and home sold products.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I would ask myself if the business is so good why it is on sale. Real solid businesses rarely come on the market. They are taken over/bought by friends or family. You could be paying an overpriced sum for non existent clients. I would never buy a business when you can start your own.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

alborino said:


> Just trying to offer a widening of thought. Wouldn't want the OP to cancel plans without knowing other options exist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would think that Spain, Portugal and Italy are probably the safest places in the South. Still it could be Iceland and there is not much protection from a gunman on a murderous rampage.

As for Tunisia, been once. Beautiful beaches, ancient Roman cities. Pity about the men who cannot stop poking and prodding women. One woman in our hotel was badly assaulted by the Reception Manager...long story but the outcome was she and her Husband was kicked out of the Hotel...incredible. Turkey is not much better. Muslim countries are out for me.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Isobella said:


> I would think that Spain, Portugal and Italy are probably the safest places in the South.


The difference being certain unsavory factions have identified Spain as a lost territory.

But back to topic there are many reasons to sell/buy a business. The most obvious one is that people who are great at starting a business are often not good at bringing an established business to its full potential.

However a way around many of the concerns is not to buy a business in a day but negotiate a migration to new ownership. That facilitates skills transfer and consistent service. Plus means new ideas have time to be tested and introduced gradually. 

The issue with starting a new business is the incredibly high failure rate in the first two years. It isn't easy. My first company lasted 3 years. My second is going strong heading into its 25th year. I wouldn't want to start from scratch again


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Libbyzx said:


> I am to believe Germany has a population of over Eighty Million, whilst Spain has only Forty Six Million.
> That helps when it comes to manufacturing and home sold products.


Not really. Germany's main strength lies in its high volume of exports, not its domestic markets. In fact, the domestic market is sluggish and in need of stimulus - Germans don't do credit, unlike we Brits with our plastic.. It has sensibly got into the BRIC market, selling quality value added goods to them. I read somewhere that China's orders for top of the range Mercedes are astronomical.
As for population....it matters not the size of population, what matters is the productivity per worker and the level of technological sophistication of plant and machinery. 
During the boom years, Spain's wages rose three times as fast as those of German workers whilst attaining only a third of German productivity.
Then consider the complexities and complications of doing business in Spain.
Remember also that Germany's population grew as a result of reunification as well as from taking in one of the highest numbers of refugees in Europe. Consider too the economic impact of reunification....taking on the DDR mark at parity with the BRD mark, as well as inheriting a moribund economy with clapped out plant and machinery.
Then there's the almost total absence of a 'them and us' attitude amongst German workers, with powerful trades unions and laws which stipulate employee participation in enterprises with over six employees.
In the eighteenth century, France's population greatly outnumbered that of Britain...yet we were the country of the first industrial revolution and a major imperial power.
Size doesn't really matter


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> The difference being certain unsavory factions have identified Spain as a lost territory.
> 
> But back to topic there are many reasons to sell/buy a business. The most obvious one is that people who are great at starting a business are often not good at bringing an established business to its full potential.
> 
> ...


It's not always possible to 'negotiate a migration to new ownership', though. Not everyone wants to do that. We shut down and sold up. We weren't interested in 'facilitating skills transfer' and 'consistent service'. That would have been the new owner's problem, we're not a business consultancy, thank God. New ideas are the new owner's prerogative.

I think the reason why so many new businesses shut down is that they are what I call 'desperation start-ups', often with redundancy money, with people with no experience of business let alone running a company and with little if any financial back up. 
That and sheer bad luck.
What Spain needs are more medium-sized companies offering quality employment and good wages to educated skilled people preferably in manufacturing. We hear of many people who are basically wanting to start up one-man-bands, fair enough, but they are not offering skilled employment or even employment at all, some of hem.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> It's not always possible to 'negotiate a migration to new ownership', though. Not everyone wants to do that. We shut down and sold up. We weren't interested in 'facilitating skills transfer' and 'consistent service'. That would have been the new owner's problem, we're not a business consultancy, thank God. New ideas are the new owner's prerogative.
> 
> I think the reason why so many new businesses shut down is that they are what I call 'desperation start-ups', often with redundancy money, with people with no experience of business let alone running a company and with little if any financial back up.
> That and sheer bad luck.
> What Spain needs are more medium-sized companies offering quality employment and good wages to educated skilled people preferably in manufacturing. We hear of many people who are basically wanting to start up one-man-bands, fair enough, but they are not offering skilled employment or even employment at all, some of hem.


mary agreed but just to add some of the biggest corporations were one man start ups in garages. 

I think I am not alone in wanting to hand my company over to someone who will take what took 25 years to build forward. I get a nice smooth move to retirement, the satisfaction of passing on my (and my partner's) knowledge/experience, the workers get looked after, and so do the clients. 

If just 0.5 percent of Spain's one/two man bands on average trebled in size imagine what scope for future growth and what jobs would be created


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> mary agreed but just to add some of the biggest corporations were one man start ups in garages.
> 
> I think I am not alone in wanting to hand my company over to someone who will take what took 25 years to build forward. I get a nice smooth move to retirement, the satisfaction of passing on my (and my partner's) knowledge/experience, the workers get looked after, and so do the clients.
> 
> If just 0.5 percent of Spain's one/two man bands on average trebled in size imagine what scope for future growth and what jobs would be created


Well, Sainsbury's started with a guy and a market stall. Ditto Marks and Sparks. Alan Sugar started out selling tv aerials from the back of a van...
Most dot.com businesses started as one-man-bands.
All true.
But under different conditions, many or at least a few years ago and not in Spain, alas.
Once you sell up and relinquish responsibility for a business, that's it, really. I think your view is an honourable, decent one but our experience of doing just that was not good.
We gave - yes gave - 25% of shares to our General Manager and the Workshop Manager( father and son). We left the UK with the business in their hands with a view to them having a year to prove they were capable of managing and buying the business after that year. While we were supposedly enjoying retirement in Prague we had frantic calls from our Finance Manager to the effect that the 'managers' were totally incapable of managing without MD Sandra being on the premises firmly in charge. We had to return t the UK several times to sort things out and eventually, after it became clear that we'd have to return to the UK permanently and take charge again, we decided Ya basta and packed up. 
The skills ad experience needed to run a medium=sized business really can't be learned on the job, not for most people. Smaller outfits, yes, I'm sure that can be done as you say. It's a pity more people don't think like that.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> I would think that Spain, Portugal and Italy are probably the safest places in the South. Still it could be Iceland and there is not much protection from a gunman on a murderous rampage.
> 
> As for Tunisia, been once. Beautiful beaches, ancient Roman cities. Pity about the men who cannot stop poking and prodding women. One woman in our hotel was badly assaulted by the Reception Manager...long story but the outcome was she and her Husband was kicked out of the Hotel...incredible. Turkey is not much better. Muslim countries are out for me.


I went on holiday once to the very hotel where the terrible massacre took place last week, albeit many years ago, which gave me a few extra shudders when I saw what had happened on TV. I didn't like Tunisia either, and it put me off visiting other Muslim countries. We didn't even bother popping over to Morocco for the day whilst in Tarifa recently, I just couldn't face the hassle, let alone the safety aspect.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I went on holiday once to the very hotel where the terrible massacre took place last week, albeit many years ago, which gave me a few extra shudders when I saw what had happened on TV. I didn't like Tunisia either, and it put me off visiting other Muslim countries. We didn't even bother popping over to Morocco for the day whilst in Tarifa recently, I just couldn't face the hassle, let alone the safety aspect.


My son and dil went to Jordan last year, to visit archeological sites (she's keen on that sort of thing). 
I thought they were mad.
I wouldn't go to Morocco or Tunisia either, although we've visited these places many times.


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## JamesInTheSun (Jun 25, 2015)

Wow! Didnt know this would start such a wide debate, but thank you all for your responses, help, insights and advice.

We are just looking as a family venture at the moment, but definitely no harm in asking 

I have had more dealings with the seller today which has eased some of my fears so i look forward to our week in CDS and meeting the business/owner.

As this thread seems to have encompassed many other areas, i'll add another! Would it be possible to get peoples experiences of where they are living or have lived on the CDS.

Whilst we like the idea of having British expats to mingle with (not learnt Spanish yet - but will!), we also would like to integrate into the Spanish culture so ideally wouldnt want to be in an area too built up or with just British. Maybe alhaurin el grande?

We would be looking for within around 30mins from Mijas?

Thanks again


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

JamesInTheSun said:


> Wow! Didnt know this would start such a wide debate, but thank you all for your responses, help, insights and advice.
> 
> We are just looking as a family venture at the moment, but definitely no harm in asking
> 
> ...


One-third of the population of Alhaurin El Grande is British!!!!
We Brits are to be found everywhere...Brits in the urbs, Brits in the boonies..
AEG is also very 'built up'.
But....Alhaurin is in Spain. Its culture is Spanish. Benidorm is Spanish. Just as villages in the Yorkshire Dales and Blackpool are both equally British...but different.
There is no 'real ' Spain, just lots of different Spains.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alhaurin El Grande was very, very British when we lived near there 8 years ago - in fact very few Spanish and a few Norwegian. But I believe that since the recession, when many Brits returned to the UK, iit became a bit of a ghost town. I dont know what its like now. 

I always recommend where we lived Torre Muelle. A private urbanizacian, with a few shops, bars, close to the sea, close to the campo, a train station and a good mix of nationalities - mainly Spanish tho - google it

Jo xxx


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