# Roads Safety



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It seems that I have been getting more and more reports from friends of bus attacks at night.. Has anyone been finding out more reports of assaults on the roads lately?

Before I drove back from Chiapas in May a truck driver the Chiapas artisans use a lot told me to watch out for the roads around Puebla.. between Puebla and Mexico and between Mexico and Queretaro, he told me a lot of trucks were being attacked at night and that his cousin had lost his car between Puebla and Mexico. Apparently the thieves on that sections have police cars and police uniforms so he believes that some rogue cops are part of the scheme and he told me not to stop if the municipal cops from Puebla tried to stop me.... That is all very nice but I rather lose the car than be shot...

Then in June a friend of mine who is a jeweler and was travelling during the day between Queretaro and Guadalajara told me her bus was shot at and the bullet barely missed her head.. I first thought it took place in Michoacan but no it was on the Queretaro Guadalajara freeway. 

The today I just got a call from a CHiapaneca friend of mine who told me that she was going back from Mexico to San Cristobal last week when her bus was shot at.. no one was hurt but she told me the bus ws full of bullets. It was 10 oclock at night at Malpaso , Vera Cruz near Las Choapas, the thieves faked an accident and tried to stop the bus but the driver kept going , there were two other buses following and the same thing happened to them...

There have always been assaults of buses at night but I am hearing more and more about it from various friends.. I do not know if I know nore people who travel by bus and if the situation is getting worst but it is quite alarming.

For 7 years I have gone back and forth to Chiapas several times a year and before that to Oaxaca and did not hear much about attacks.. For the last 3 years I found it cheaper to fly there and we also drive but ony during the day and we never had problems although I have heards about problems between Choapas , VC and Tuxtla... but it seems to be getting worse.

Anyone has the same feeling? Of course those incidents are not reported so it is difficult to have decent information, but it is getting worrysome to know that these thieves are shooting at vehicules that do not stop and that some of them actually have cops cars and uniforms..


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## travelingrae (Dec 9, 2016)

It sounds like there's some bad things going on in that part of the country. The night, or rather very early the next morning, I was going to stop in Puebla on my drive to Mérida and ended up pushing on to Oaxaca a Mexican family was brutally attacked just short of a toll booth.

One of the reasons I chose not to return to Sinaloa was attacks starting to happen in broad daylight in what had been deemed safe areas. I didn't want to live in a war zone and was starting to feel claustrophobic.

Thankfully, the Yucatán, where I live now, thus far feels very peaceful and a world away from all that. I think what is very telling is that it is so odd that folks here in my part of Yucatán drive at night! I was told by both my Mexican and expat neighbours that there is absolutely no reason to fear going into Mérida for an event and driving home to my beach community after dark.

So I haven't been to the Chiapas area, but I agree with you that there seems to be something dark bubbling at the surface right now.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

We often take the Executive Bus into and out of Mexico City. I always find it interesting that on the way in - while they scan our bags etc that is it. On the way out of Mexico City the driver makes a pass through the bus apparently taking photos (I always assumed) or perhaps they are actually scanning facial images looking for 'bad guys' ?

I try to read the local police page on the internet often. It appears that there have been a lot of robberies lately on the 'local' buses - the medium sized Mercedes basic buses which people use to get to work. When people resist they are often shot. Perhaps 3 years ago we had a gardener. We were concerned that he seemed to work through lunch - not eating. When we asked him he said he was robbed on the bus on the way to our house.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

travelingrae said:


> It sounds like there's some bad things going on in that part of the country. The night, or rather very early the next morning, I was going to stop in Puebla on my drive to Mérida and ended up pushing on to Oaxaca a Mexican family was brutally attacked just short of a toll booth.
> 
> One of the reasons I chose not to return to Sinaloa was attacks starting to happen in broad daylight in what had been deemed safe areas. I didn't want to live in a war zone and was starting to feel claustrophobic.
> 
> ...


We - seriously - considered buying a beachfront home in the area between Akumal and Tulum. The area we were looking had an 'armed' guard post for entry. Apparently drug runners were coming ashore right there. We actually saw an army squad walking the beach in the early morning hours. Now - in the spirit of honesty - that has been about 6 years now...

The people we bought our house from - a German/Columbian couple - moved to Merida - because it was the 'safest' place to live in Mexico. Sounded like a Chamber of Commerce spiel to me. Reminded me of when my employer at the time convinced me to move from the beaches of South Florida to Austin Texas. Boy were we sold.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

"The people we bought our house from - a German/Columbian couple - moved to Merida - because it was the 'safest' place to live in Mexico." 

I wonder why? Oh yea, maybe because the ZETA Cartel has moved their parents into Merida over the years......


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## travelingrae (Dec 9, 2016)

horseshoe846;12634370moved to Merida - because it was the 'safest' place to live in Mexico. [/QUOTE said:


> There are statistics to support that statement. Heck, even OSAC agrees that Mérida itself is safe. CNN Money are only one group that voted Mérida the best place to retire abroad in the world.
> 
> When I was looking for a big, cosmopolitan, cultural city the environs of which I could explore after I had my fill of Mazatlán, people kept telling me about Mérida. I normally ignore hype and am leery of going anywhere expats swarm, but I decided to check it out and am glad I did. If you've been here and didn't like it, fair enough. But if you haven't, then you have no idea what you're talking about. It's a whole other Mexico here.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

travelingrae said:


> There are statistics to support that statement. Heck, even OSAC agrees that Mérida itself is safe. CNN Money are only one group that voted Mérida the best place to retire abroad in the world.
> 
> When I was looking for a big, cosmopolitan, cultural city the environs of which I could explore after I had my fill of Mazatlán, people kept telling me about Mérida. I normally ignore hype and am leery of going anywhere expats swarm, but I decided to check it out and am glad I did. If you've been here and didn't like it, fair enough. But if you haven't, then you have no idea what you're talking about. It's a whole other Mexico here.


I have been to Merida - but it was over 40 years ago - and you would not believe the situation that brought me there. I liked Merida just fine - but I was just passing through.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Chiapas is considered one of the safest state so ..you never know.. Merida is safe now, over the years it means nothing. One place safe today becomes unsafe the next day.. Everyone was saying that Cancun was safe and we have seen cartel activity there , same in Playa del Carmen.. things come and go..and some get worse and worse like Guerrero..
The attacks on the roads happen all over but it seems that Queretaro and Puebla are new to that racket..
The buses were attacked in Malpaso Vera Cruz..not Chiapas so no big surprise there. The Choapas Tuxtla road going through Vera Cruz, Tabasco and Chiapas has had attacks, it is a relatively new road with little traffic , the perfect place for attacks.

I would be careful about beachfront in Tulum, The locals seem to want that back..


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

citlali said:


> Chiapas is considered one of the safest state so ..you never know.. Merida is safe now, over the years it means nothing. One place safe today becomes unsafe the next day.. Everyone was saying that Cancun was safe and we have seen cartel activity there , same in Playa del Carmen.. things come and go..and some get worse and worse like Guerrero..
> The attacks on the roads happen all over but it seems that Queretaro and Puebla are new to that racket..
> The buses were attacked in Malpaso Vera Cruz..not Chiapas so no big surprise there. The Choapas Tuxtla road going through Vera Cruz, Tabasco and Chiapas has had attacks, it is a relatively new road with little traffic , the perfect place for attacks.
> 
> I would be careful about beachfront in Tulum, The locals seem to want that back..


Ok - I'll admit that I am a different type of person - I have lived my life relying on my gut. (which hasn't worked out that bad). The people in Guerrero are not happy people. They just exude hate.

Edit : Regarding the Tulum beachfront - I saw that story maybe in January. The people who are losing out apparently were squatters - trying to take it as far as they could. Am I mistaken ?


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

About 4 years ago a doctor friend was driving back to Mexico City from Puebla at about 10pm after a day of giving consults. He had all the cash his patients had paid him and he was stopped by "police". They wound up taking every last peso he had and then let him go.

So the Puebla/CDMX route has had its perils for a while.

I have always only driven the highways by day and I plan on sticking to that.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

circle110 said:


> About 4 years ago a doctor friend was driving back to Mexico City from Puebla at about 10pm after a day of giving consults. He had all the cash his patients had paid him and he was stopped by "police". They wound up taking every last peso he had and then let him go.
> 
> So the Puebla/CDMX route has had its perils for a while.
> 
> I have always only driven the highways by day and I plan on sticking to that.


I agree - but it is not just late night - you need to avoid driving early morning (as in just about day break).


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Besides the robberies on highways and byways everywhere you go you have to be on guard... It seems to me as the economy and inflation goes more and more people get desperate to make money to feed their families any way they can, if there are no jobs you turn to crime to pay for whatever you need the money for. 
Every where you turn in Mexico someone is out to scam you every where you go, if the Pemex dude does not do a quick change on you the station is shorting liters. Or instead of getting a silver neckless your getting 
alpaca with some worthless glass “diamond”...Restaurants are including a “service charge” on you bill, then the bootleg items, where else can you buy a first run blockbuster movie the day before it is released for 20 pesos...
Or maybe buy a RolMex watch, counterfeit jeans,purses,drugs...And lets not forget the policeman who needs to supplement their piss-poor wages by hitting up tourist and nationals alike... The list goes on and on...I am afraid it will just keep getting worse in Mexico’s future , what a shame for many beautiful people and such a beautiful country. 
Que Lastima


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

horseshoe846 said:


> I agree - but it is not just late night - you need to avoid driving early morning (as in just about day break).


Yes, good point.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Besides the robberies on highways and byways everywhere you go you have to be on guard... It seems to me as the economy and inflation goes more and more people get desperate to make money to feed their families any way they can, if there are no jobs you turn to crime to pay for whatever you need the money for.
> Every where you turn in Mexico someone is out to scam you every where you go, if the Pemex dude does not do a quick change on you the station is shorting liters. Or instead of getting a silver neckless your getting
> alpaca with some worthless glass “diamond”...Restaurants are including a “service charge” on you bill, then the bootleg items, where else can you buy a first run blockbuster movie the day before it is released for 20 pesos...
> Or maybe buy a RolMex watch, counterfeit jeans,purses,drugs...And lets not forget the policeman who needs to supplement their piss-poor wages by hitting up tourist and nationals alike... The list goes on and on...I am afraid it will just keep getting worse in Mexico’s future , what a shame for many beautiful people and such a beautiful country.
> Que Lastima


I think that you and I don't live in the same Mexico, chico.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

In Tulum hotels and businesses are losing out, that is what i read..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes there are two Mexicos and it is easy to run into the Mexico Chicois is talking about very easy..


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> I think that you and I don't live in the same Mexico, chico.



I wish you would elaborate! 
to I do not live in an apartment in Mexico City, I get out and venture throughout this country and have been since 1952.....
I have been in every state, have driven over 300,000 Mexican miles ( not KM ) I have seen the peso go from 12.5 x $1USD to 3000 x $! and back down to 3 x$1 and now back up to 18 x $1......
My next door neighbor was kidnapped for 6 weeks, I have seen extortion and restaurants burn for non payment...I believe what I wrote above describes Mexico in the 21 century and believe what I am talking about......


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> I wish you would elaborate!
> to I do not live in an apartment in Mexico City, I get out and venture throughout this country and have been since 1952.....
> I have been in every state, have driven over 300,000 Mexican miles ( not KM ) I have seen the peso go from 12.5 x $1USD to 3000 x $! and back down to 3 x$1 and now back up to 18 x $1......
> My next door neighbor was kidnapped for 6 weeks, I have seen extortion and restaurants burn for non payment...I believe what I wrote above describes Mexico in the 21 century and believe what I am talking about......


I don't doubt that you are truthfully describing your life in Mexico, and it's very different from what I have experienced both in the past (my first time in Mexico was the summer of 1966) and in the last ten years of living in Mexico City.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> I don't doubt that you are truthfully describing your life in Mexico, and it's very different from what I have experienced both in the past (my first time in Mexico was the summer of 1966) and in the last ten years of living in Mexico City.


I also believe I am describing a country full of scams and scammers, I did not mention cartel activities or even the metro pick pockets and other petty thieves, nor did I mention the mayors, governors and presidents robbing the country blind...All I am saying is it seems Mexico is going down the tubes.....


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## travelingrae (Dec 9, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> I don't doubt that you are truthfully describing your life in Mexico, and it's very different from what I have experienced both in the past (my first time in Mexico was the summer of 1966) and in the last ten years of living in Mexico City.


I know for a fact that both your Mexico and his exist. I've had nothing but peace in this country. But friends of friends last year went for lunch at a Pueblo Magico 30 minutes away from home that they'd gone to many times and got carjacked, with the wife being raped. An expat businessman I knew casually was robbed and accidentally suffocated to death during a business deal gone wrong. Two Australian tourists who got too comfortable ignored all the rules about staying on the cuotas and only driving during the day and paid for it with their lives. I close friend went to visit friends of his in Queretaro and found them murdered in their beds for refusing to pay the "protection tax" to the local drug lord. I know an American woman who has been living in Ciudad Juarez since the height of the violence there who got used to seeing people getting gunned down in the streets.

...

And then, there's the other stories that you don't hear about in the news about how absolutely non-eventful and easy life can be here. How you can sit out on your patio at night to listen to the surf and watch the sunset and your neighbours start blaring music and next thing you know, it's 4AM and you're so hungover on beer and tacos after joining the part that you have to write off the next day. How your cranky neighbour next door turns out to be the person leaving delicious food outside your front door and running away. How someone will chase you two blocks to return an ATM card you left in the machine. How someone will go out of their way to return to a tourist an iPad found at the central market. How things that are luxuries back north, like fresh produce, dairy, healthcare, and internet access are cheap and abundant here. How there is an ease of living here, without a nanny state breathing down your neck.

I think it's dangerous to ignore that chicois8's Mexico exists and to be all la la la, ignore the reports, Mexico is great and safe because that is absolutely not true. There are very scary parts to this country. I also think it's sad to deny yourself the good parts of Mexico and claim that the whole country is going down the tubes because of the bad. Too many expats I know from Sinaloa have given up on Mexico because they are seeing their part of Mexico turning into chicoi8's nightmare and thinking that it represents the whole country. Others, like me, have struck out in search of a more peaceful corner.

I'm glad I've seen both the ugly and good of Mexico and am here with neither rose nor dark coloured glasses.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Todays Mexico is not the Mexico I have been enjoying these many many years, and things that I described were from all over the country not just Nayarit where I am...Lately the sad reports of strikes that become violent ( over 300 ADO buses burnt near Oaxaca last year ) to the road blockades in Chiapas, to the Tulum beach hotels being bulldozed, the mass graves from Cabo to Veracruz and everywhere in between...and do not get me started on infrastructure...LOL ......yes there are still some beautiful place and equally beautiful people but like Bob Dylan sang " the times they are a changing".............


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## Me Linda (Jan 26, 2017)

Are you not describing the whole world? 700 gun violence deaths in Chicago last year? I lived 25 minutes from the pulse night club when that happened. I have lived or been all over the USA there are many places you do not go at night alone or not. Robberies, home invasions, rapes everyday . In the government in USA they don't call it corruption they call it lobbyists. Infrastructure? A whole city of sick kids and no one can drink the water ( now more cities being reported), crumbling bridges and roads. You just need to be careful and live your life the best you can without letting fear ruin it. Just my thoughts.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

My experience living in the US is that middle class people live away from the places where the violence happens on a daily basis.
. I saw some of it because at one time I worked in warehouse districts in the Bay Area, La and NY.. our employees were the ones going to sleep at the sound of the bullets hitting the walls on the street or being attacked on the way hone when they car broke down as it was the eternal war between the Latinos and the blacks but most white people lived in areas where these things did not happen. 
Comparing crime in the US and Mexico is comparing apples and oranges.. yes there is crime all over the world yes you can get blown off by terrorists in Paris or London or whever in Europe but believe me it is very different than it is here.
In Europe or the US I never prepared the car to be stolen before a long road trip.. I never thought of hiding money and a card on my person in case the car got stolen..

I have never been taken to jail for being in an accident. in the US or France. another thing to think about.. thank God I was with a friend or the car load would have disappeared from the car in no time and on and on.. I have adapted over the last 17 years but when I go back to the US a or to France , I know these things just do not happen.. or if they do they make the news, unlike here..

Sorry but the violence here and all the petty crime and the corruption do not compare to the US or Europe..
I agree that Europe and the US are going down the drain too but they have a long way to go to compare to Mexico.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Correction the shooting of the bus happened after turning off at Las Choapas, Vera Cruz and before getting to Mal pAso Chiapas.. so somewhere in Vera Cruz, or Tabasco or Chiapas.. It is the place where the 3 states meet on thborder..at lonely road..between Choapas and the Chiapas border..


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## travelingrae (Dec 9, 2016)

citlali said:


> My experience living in the US is that middle class people live away from the places where the violence happens on a daily basis.


Yup to everything you said.

While there are some truly terrifying parts to Canada and horrific things happen there on a daily basis, only once in my life have I ever had it up front in my face (when the gang war was ranging in Vancouver in early '09 and people were getting gunned down in broad daylight). There are people in the US who definitely live through this kind of violence on a daily basis, but it is definitely segregated for the most part. I spent four months last year in the Balkans, a region that was at war just 20 years ago and that today is so safe a drunk woman can walk home in the middle of the night downtown in any city and get there safely (not something I'd count on in Canada, the US, or Mexico). That's what makes Mexico so shocking to me at times, that bad things do happen to good people you know. My list of people I know who have had terrible things happen here grows on a daily basis, but off the top of my head, I can only thing of one or two back north who have been a victim of a truly violent crime.

Do I feel in danger here? No. Am I extra vigilant? Yes. And it would take a lot more than what is currently going on for me to give up on my dream of making a life here. Call me the eternal optimist, but this massive dichotomy of Mexico, in that it has parts that are truly sunk in a nightmare third world mire of poverty and violence and others that are wealthy and firmly entrenched in the first world, is what gives me hope that Mexico will come out ahead. It might not be at the pace we would want, but all in good time.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

I avoid Mexican roads at night for lots of reasons: poor conditions, inadequate lighting, unmarked topes and other obstacles-- all the stuff that's present during the day, just harder to see at night, especially when your eyes aren't as good as they were 40 years ago. Then there's the insecurity, which I try not to dwell on. Having worked in South Central L.A. for 25 years and living in a hood just a little better, I survived gang wars, random violence, riots, overzealous cops, and sundry disasters both natural and man-made, so I may have a different perspective. My formula for security is simple: live with a base of Common Sense, a generous dose of Precaution, and a small dash of Paranoia. Too many people have those proportions inverted... and they're no fun to be around.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

After reading the comments on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the main reason I don't feel unsafe living in Mexico City is that I don't have a car (or a driver's license) and rarely go out at night on my own. I'm usually at home by 10:00 pm.


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