# SOMEONE PLEASE HELP - I am desperate to find answers about portuguese naturalization



## alyssabianca65 (Feb 22, 2016)

I am writing because I am desperate for a few answers to my questions regarding the acquisition of portuguese citizenship through my grandparents. Honestly, the lack of support I have received from virtually EVERYONE I have spoken with at any consulate is disgraceful. Please let there be a kind, knowledgable soul out there willing to help me! 

My situation: I am trying to get Portuguese citizenship so that I can get a EU passport and live/work in Europe. My mother's parents are both portuguese citizens, but my mother never registered as a citizen. I was told that my best option is to apply for naturalization through my grandparents. 

I applied from Connecticut but last week the CT consulate officially closed. 

Since my mother's parents are both portuguese, I know that she could apply for citizenship, and then I could get it through her. However, my grandfather was divorced before marrying my grandmother, and my mother was divorced before marrying my father. The consulate said it would cost thousands of dollars to register these divorces, so I decided to apply for naturalization. 

As per the IRN website: When I sent my application for naturalization I submitted mine, my mother's, and my grandparents birth certificates. I also submitted a letter to the minister of justice, documentation of my year spent studying in Brasil (to prove my proficiency in the lingua portuguesa), a criminal check, and other identification documents. I recieved a response from Portugal 3 months later stating that they need my parent's marriage license, and that my education in Brasil was not enough to prove I speak portuguese. 

My questions are: 

1. Will I need to register my mother's first marriage and divorce if I am submitting her marriage certificate to my father? (her last name was changed) 

2. Where can I take a language proficiency exam? 

3. I already submitted mine and my mother's birth certificates, so have I made a mistake or did they? "

4. I have also heard that they may have started to allow grandkids to apply for citizenship through grandparents directly, as children can apply through their parents. Has this started yet?? 

ANY ANSWERS TO ANY QUESTIONS ARE SO, SO APPRECIATED!!!!!


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

Hi, 

This will be of no help to you at all but just a question or two and a life style comment.. I assume you are American and your mother is American so YOU have NO direct connection with Portugal the same way as 10.000.000 Portuguese (or Mexicans) would be treated if they wanted to go to the good ole US of A and work. .I assume you want to live/work in Europe yet you are taking the typical Yankie stance of "I know my rights" and the Quote "" lack of support I have received from virtually EVERYONE I have spoken with at any consulate is disgraceful"" It is no wonder you cannot progress as I'd suggest an attitude change would help. Try any US of A consulate and see how the applicants are treated.

PS. My Portuguese is classed as "black Portuguese" as it's from Para and not the same as Portuguese Portuguese


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## alyssabianca65 (Feb 22, 2016)

You're right, that was of no help to me.


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## Chadstick (Feb 24, 2016)

Hi. You should ask your mom to register herself first and then get her Portuguese birth certificate, which would make your life a ton easier. Then all you need to do is register and you get yours in the same way she got hers. That's what I'm doing, but my mom is already registered since birth. All she needs is her birth certificate. So, get that first to avoid more hassle, then apply. Trying to do it with your grandparents as citizens is possible and you are entitled to citizenship through them, but it is a bit harder.


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## Transcend (Dec 25, 2015)

Chadstick said:


> Hi. You should ask your mom to register herself first and then get her Portuguese birth certificate, which would make your life a ton easier. Then all you need to do is register and you get yours in the same way she got hers. That's what I'm doing, but my mom is already registered since birth. All she needs is her birth certificate. So, get that first to avoid more hassle, then apply. Trying to do it with your grandparents as citizens is possible and you are entitled to citizenship through them, but it is a bit harder.


The OP (whom I doubt we will hear from again) has already considered this course of action. This is what he said:

_"Since my mother's parents are both portuguese, I know that she could apply for citizenship, and then I could get it through her. However, my grandfather was divorced before marrying my grandmother, and my mother was divorced before marrying my father. The consulate said it would cost thousands of dollars to register these divorces, so I decided to apply for naturalization".

3. I already submitted mine and my mother's birth certificates..._

Your comments mention his mother's Portuguese birth certificate, but I suspect she was born in Brazil. I suspect this is central to the OP's problems.


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## alyssabianca65 (Feb 22, 2016)

Transcend said:


> Chadstick said:
> 
> 
> > Hi. You should ask your mom to register herself first and then get her Portuguese birth certificate, which would make your life a ton easier. Then all you need to do is register and you get yours in the same way she got hers. That's what I'm doing, but my mom is already registered since birth. All she needs is her birth certificate. So, get that first to avoid more hassle, then apply. Trying to do it with your grandparents as citizens is possible and you are entitled to citizenship through them, but it is a bit harder.
> ...


Hello, and thank you very much for your comment. You are right in saying that I have considered applying through my mother. However, you are incorrect when you say my mother is Brazilian. She was born here, in America, to Portuguese parents. 

My central problem is that the consulate has requested my mom's marriage certificate. If I submit it, I am afraid I will have to also register her previous marriage and divorce (because of her name changes). Do you know if this is the case? Again, I appreciate the responses very much.


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## Chadstick (Feb 24, 2016)

alyssabianca65 said:


> Hello, and thank you very much for your comment. You are right in saying that I have considered applying through my mother. However, you are incorrect when you say my mother is Brazilian. She was born here, in America, to Portuguese parents.
> 
> My central problem is that the consulate has requested my mom's marriage certificate. If I submit it, I am afraid I will have to also register her previous marriage and divorce (because of her name changes). Do you know if this is the case? Again, I appreciate the responses very much.


If you want to do it via naturalization, it is a much, much harder and tedious process. Your mom is entitled to citizenship via direct ancestry, and then so are you. Rather spend the time and money sorting that all out, and then register yourself with your moms birth certificate. 

Here is a post you might find very helpful since it's a very similar situation, and the guy did it in the USA. 

"Hi, 
I just got my dual Portuguese citizenship here in the USA. I wanted to leave my experience here as this site helped me piece together some of the info I needed.

My grandfather (dad's side) was born on Sao Miguel in the Azores. 

Mt first step was to gather as much information from my family as I could. I was able to get my grandfathers naturalization papers which listed Portugal as his place of birth. My grandparents marriage certificate from the church in Massachusetts. I found some census info on family tree dot com. I also gathered all of the verbally passed on family info from my father and my Uncle that I could squeeze out of them. This yielded much good intel such as my grandfathers town of birth in the Azores. I guess the moral here is get all of the documentation and info you can get your hands on first.

I then hired a genealogist in the Azores to find my grandfathers birth record form his town in the Azores. I found the genealogist on a genealogical website and after a few emails back and forth I took the plunge and paid him via pay-pal. One nice thing about Portuguese people is that they are by and large honest. So within a couple of weeks I had grandpa's birth record. A certified copy from the Arrifes town hall. It cost me $50 US.

It was only after getting all of this together that I called the Portuguese consulate here in Los Angeles for help. I spoke to the consular officer over the phone and explained to him what I wanted to do. He informed me that I could get citizenship on my own but that it would be much easier to do if MY FATHER GOT HIS FIRST. If I were to get it on my own I would be applying for citizenship and the process is difficult. You DO have to take a language test. Which is doable. But you also have to prove a connection to the Portuguese community which is vague and MUCH more difficult. The Officer explained to me that there is currently a woman in San Diego trying to get her citizenship this way. She has done everything correctly. Has letters from the curch, community groups, and friends (there is a large Portuguese community in San Diego). But this is still not enough for the people who decide this because she never lived in Portugal and doesn't have references from there. My father, BEING FIRST GENERATION IS ALREADY A CITIZEN OF PORTUGAL and simply had to register all of our family info to claim this.
NO TEST, NO PROOF OF CONNECTION TO COMMUNITY.

Fortunately for me, my father is still alive and was willing to do this. We had to register (with Portugal) my grandparents marriage and deaths. My parents marriage. And then me.
Basically, you are documenting lineage. My father IS a Portuguese citizen as the child of a national. Once he registers his identity and circumstances with Portugal. I am then the child of a national. So I am already a citizen. No Test. Nothing. Simply register Myself.

What we ended up needing ;
Grandparents birth marriage and death certificates. 
My parents birth and marriage certificates.
My birth certificate.

(The other documents help prove legitimacy to the consul and the more the better)

For me some of this was difficult to get. Especially as I am on the west coast and my Family is on the east coast of the USA. Luckily for me My father was keen to do this as well and really helped a lot. I paid for everything but he made trips to town halls and his local consulate to acquire and register all of the information. Also he has a gift for dealing with people in bureaucratic offices. He charmed the pants off of the ladies at the Rhode Island Portuguese consulate.

It took us about two months and US$1100 to accomplish this. We now have our Portuguese Birth Certificates. 

I am getting my Portuguese ID and Passport next here in LA. It will take a few more months and cost between US$200 and $400 to accomplish. The Consular Officer told me exactly what documentation to bring so this should require two visits to the Consul for me.

I do not have a Portuguese name or speak fluent Portuguese.

If I could give some advice;

1. Have your stuff together as much as possible. The Consul is not there to do the work for you. Show respect by putting the work in.

2. Be patient and polite. LISTEN. And take notes when you speak to them. No one likes to have their time wasted.

3. Don't panic if you hit an obstacle. Think, and diligently work through or around the problem. 

4. Think about what you say BEFORE you say it and speak as clearly as possible. 

5. BE POLITE. Most people in a bureaucracy are willing to help someone with a good attitude that makes doing their job as easy as possible for them. Remember, they just have forms and files to fill. It's your job to give them the stuff to put in. And they don't make the rules or have any way to bend them, so never give them any grief over an obstacle you run into. It's your problem, not theirs. 

Additionally, Anyone familiar with Portuguese culture knows that family comes first. I often used the term "My Family" instead of "ME" and "we" instead of "I". If you want a Portuguese person on your side, let them know you are trying to do something for your family. And thank them on behalf of your family. This is respected more than the idea that you just want EU citizenship. I am glad to have EU citizenship but I truly wanted to restore something I felt that we lost when we came to the US. Though I was born in the US and am thankful for that, I was raised around my Portuguese relatives and love the culture. And the food! My ancestors came here because they were poor. Not because they didn't like Portugal. Restoring our citizenship, for me, is a way of getting back something that was lost, and honoring my ancestors struggle. I think I was able to get this across to the Consular officers and they were very good to us.

I hope this helps someone and Good luck!

AC"


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## Transcend (Dec 25, 2015)

alyssabianca65 said:


> Hello, and thank you very much for your comment. You are right in saying that I have considered applying through my mother. However, you are incorrect when you say my mother is Brazilian. She was born here, in America, to Portuguese parents.


Hello alyssabianca65,

I am pleased you were not deterred from returning to the forum. There are many people here who are happy to help if they can. I apologise for making the assumption your mother was born in Brazil.

It appears that Chadstick has given some very useful information and hopefully you can use this in your goal of obtaining Portuguese citizenship. I genuinely wish you all the best.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

it would appear there are others on here who are also trying to nudge the Portuguese system in their direction by quoting mulitiple posts from interwebs forums rather then resolving the issue.


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## alyssabianca65 (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you again for your comment. The information that chadstick posted was helpful! The one problem I still have though is as follows: 

The reason I went for naturalization, rather than asking my mom to register as a citizen and then applying through her, is because we were told that registering divorces in Portugal has to be done in court and costs 1500-2000 euro. If my mom were to apply for citizenship, I think she'd have to register her parents' marriage, and also her father's previous marriage and divorce. Then if I went through her, I think I would have to register her previous marriage, divorce, and then marriage to my dad. Does anyone know if any of that is true? And does it really cost that much?

As of today, I went to the consulate and straightened out a few of my other questions. For now, since I am going forward with the naturalization process, I have to send my mom's marriage certificate as the embassy requested it. I'm just nervous that when they see she was divorced, they'll request those records to be registered too. This (allegedly) will cost me thousands, which is what I was trying to avoid by going the naturalization route. Does anyone know if they would require divorce records in this instance?

Thank you again for the help! It's so nice to be a part of such a great community.


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