# Thailand or Ecuador ?



## Edgenaples

My wife and I keep seeing Chiang Mai and Cuenca, Ecuador, on pretty much every "retire abroad inexpensively" type website.
I am from the US....Florida mostly. My wife is originally from Nicaragua and Costa Rica. We lived in CR for a year together before moving back to the states.
We've been to Thailand twice, but have not been to Chiang Mai....and we have not yet been to Ecuador.
We've read a lot and love the sound of both cities, for retirement. It seems like Chiang Mai may be quite a bit cheaper ? We love Thai food, find the people to be very nice, and the culture to be extremely interesting. We do worry about the heat.
Cuenca appeals to us because it is cool weather, which we love. We both speak English and Spanish, so that is a plus for Cuenca. 
Has anyone here been to both ? Would you say one is less expensive overall ?
Do you find Chiang Mai to be unbearably hot ? (we thought Bangkok and Pattaya were miserably hot but besides that we loved both cities)
If anyone has been to both, we'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance !


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## gnazi71

I don't know Ecuador but I recently read an article in an italian newspaper that is becoming a nation in wich many people from all over the world go to retire.
If you google "move to Ecuador" you will find many things to read.
Can't help more.


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## Pigman58

We've been in Chiang Mai for 4 years. It's a lovely place to live, but it can get very hot here, for much of the year. Our experience - and that of others, including Thais - is that the local climate is definitely changing, getting hotter for longer and drier; the last two wet seasons have seen very little rain.

If climate is important, this is not the place for you, and indeed, it is the sole reason we are considering our future here.


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## Oneman

I lived in Chiang Mai 4 years.
Very happy when I finally moved out there.

Terrible smog and smoke from massive fires burning in the mountains -- every year: March, April, May. Eyes itching. Sinuses clogged. Trouble breathing. Three months.

Look at tourist photos and think you'll be living close to heaven. So did 10,000 other Westerners, and they've moved there before you. Another 10,000 are on-line now making flight reservations.

Traffic jams every day in a town designed 700 years ago for people walking and the occasional, slow-moving elephant. 

Chiang Mai is very popular with Chinese tourists. Not ordinary tourists, but bottom-of-the-barrel Chinese on "no dollar" tours. Extremely loud, pushy, rude, and they like to spit on the floors. 

Chiang Mai used to be a cheap area in Thailand, and that reputation still lingers, although now it's no longer cheap. Problem is the reputation still attracts lots of "Cheap Charlies" coming to join the hoards of other "Cheap Charlies" already there. Seeing so many of them, I used to ask myself, "How did these bums get over here?"

Seventh Day Adventists have a special love for Chiang Mai. I've encountered them multiple times. Move there and you'll meet them, too, whether you want to or not.

Think you'll be living in a quaint, historic city? Think again. The original walls disappeared two centuries ago -- the bricks taken to build houses and pave roads. The walls there now are fakes -- built from imagination of art students about 40 years ago, in order to attract tourists.

This list could go on and on, but other things I'd rather do today.

-- Oneman
Not in Chiang Mai any more.
.


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## dhream

I have been in Chiang Mai since February this year for solo retirement, and I am happy enough.

The haze is indeed an issue here, and you may be better off considering either the Thai coast or Myanmar or Cambodia, all of those options are more expensive. The fact that Myanmar and Cambodia are more expensive surprises a lot of people, but since they are the latest 'gold rush' places for well-heeled entrepreneurs and of course, nothing but the best for them. This means the 'middle ground' of the market naturally wants a slice of the action so western groceries, and accommodation that is anything more than a backpack fleapit, go up in price fast, and frequently. Also the visa-run set that took advantage of the Thai loopholes for years are all probably pouring into these places as well.
I'm not sure if Chiang Rai is any better for seasonal smog or cooler air, but I hear it is a great deal quieter than Chiang Mai, but sits very close to a rather active seismic fault.

From what the OP says, Ecuador for them, is the way to go. The one thing that put me off Ecuador when I was looking to escape the 'first world' was the disconcertingly high rate of crime, and the insane duty on even used electronic equipment. And the fact that poor air connections meant I'd have to fly for three days to reach either Europe or Australia, where I also have right of abode. 
If you Google 'Numbeo' you'll find a website that is a mine of practical info on almost any city in the world you are looking to live in, you can even do side by side cost and security comparisons.


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## dhream

*On the other hand...*

With respect, Oneman, I just thought this was a little bit overdone so I added a little perspective...

QUOTE=Oneman;5538569]I lived in Chiang Mai 4 years.
Very happy when I finally moved out there. 

Terrible smog and smoke from massive fires burning in the mountains -- every year: March, April, May. Eyes itching. Sinuses clogged. Trouble breathing. Three months. Agreed, I was not in such bad shape, but it was still a valid issue for me.

Look at tourist photos and think you'll be living close to heaven. So did 10,000 other Westerners, and they've moved there before you. Another 10,000 are on-line now making flight reservations. This is no different from any other popular city anywhere, and a lot of 'Westerners' at least gives me options. I don't have to hang with them if i don't want to, and are we talking 10,000 residents or tourists? It would be interesting to find some real numbers either way.

Traffic jams every day in a town designed 700 years ago for people walking and the occasional, slow-moving elephant. But still way better than BKK by almost every traffic measure, and noticeably so! Cleaner too, and sidewalks that are not as likely to kill or maim you, the only real problem in CNX is a lack of metered taxis since they all do nothing but THB 200 airport runs and we all know that is a fact, not an exaggeration. The Thonglor buses leave a lot to be desired as a viable means of organized big city transport.

Chiang Mai is very popular with Chinese tourists. Not ordinary tourists, but bottom-of-the-barrel Chinese on "no dollar" tours. Extremely loud, pushy, rude, and they like to spit on the floors. Sounds like a lot of western nations 'no dollar' tourists too, except they don't spit on the floor, they throw up 65 beers and a Pad Thai wherever it happens to land

Chiang Mai used to be a cheap area in Thailand, and that reputation still lingers, although now it's no longer cheap. Problem is the reputation still attracts lots of "Cheap Charlies" coming to join the hoards of other "Cheap Charlies" already there. Seeing so many of them, I used to ask myself, "How did these bums get over here?" You're contradicting yourself here, it is still cheap, one of the cheapest livable cities on the planet. I don't equate frugal people with bums, I equate bums with bums, few of them will be staying after the new visa rules anyway.

Seventh Day Adventists have a special love for Chiang Mai. I've encountered them multiple times. Move there and you'll meet them, too, whether you want to or not. Beats encountering ISIL tanks, is this really such an issue? Come on.

Think you'll be living in a quaint, historic city? Think again. The original walls disappeared two centuries ago -- the bricks taken to build houses and pave roads. The walls there now are fakes -- built from imagination of art students about 40 years ago, in order to attract tourists. Meh, who cares about tourist showmanship when you live here anyway, it's for tourists, I could care less about a fake wall.

This list could go on and on, but other things I'd rather do today. Thanks!

-- Oneman
Not in Chiang Mai any more.
.[/QUOTE]


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## Pigman58

There are so many issues that could be taken with Oneman's comments, but this is not Thaivisa nor Teakdoor (thank goodness), thus I am not inviting a "TV style slanging match" and will delete any further postings.

I'd suggest that Edgenaples PM Dhream and I'm sure he'll give a balanced view of the good and the bad - and there are lots of both about Chiang Mai, it certainly is not "paradise". (I too am happy to give a view if also requested)


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## dhream

Pigman58,

No fighting in the war room! (Peter Sellers) 

Oneman and I agree to disagree, and he has much of value to contribute in other threads, I think he was just getting CNX off his chest, but I felt that needed a mild rebuttal nevertheless.

By all means do contribute, we are all hear (here) to learn as much as pontificate LOL!

As a user of the southern highway out to Hangdong regularly, I never fail to be horrified by local drivers antics. I just strap in, grit my teeth, and calm my terror. (I let my Thai other half do the driving, she has had enough prangs to finally knock some caution into her) I witnessed the corpse of a biker flat on his face in the middle lane, on the way to dinner a few months ago. I saw two bike corpses the first time I ever visited back in the 90's and took a bus to Koh Samet. People die on the roads here -a lot.

I am told over expat beers that it's 'fashionable' for the young nongs to knock out the motorcycle tail light (insanity to the max). Certainly there are a lot of bikes moving around 'dark' here every night, they can't all be too poor to afford a 10baht replacement lamp. I hear Cambodian kids remove the wing mirrors for similar reasons. And we thought that the 'Mods' were bad in the UK with their Lambrettas!

Otherwise I feel reasonably safe from crime (a big issue for me personally) and pretty content with my lot up north.


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## dhream

Pigman58 said:


> We've been in Chiang Mai for 4 years. It's a lovely place to live, but it can get very hot here, for much of the year. Our experience - and that of others, including Thais - is that the local climate is definitely changing, getting hotter for longer and drier; the last two wet seasons have seen very little rain.
> 
> If climate is important, this is not the place for you, and indeed, it is the sole reason we are considering our future here.


Granted, the heat was pretty searing this summer at times. However, I spent part of last year in 'sunny' Portugal, the winter rain was so bad mould was growing inside the apartment. The cold was bearable there, but I hate the cold below 10C. i escaped to BKK for a month over Xmas, I paid a fortune, but I think I saved my own life, I'm not kidding. So it was worth it, and it inspired me to move to Chiang Mai.

The heat can also be too much of a good thing. I spent six months in Singapore two years ago (apartment without aircon) it is just relentless there. They don't need a weather bureau, every day is just too sticky and too hot, it's 35C forever pretty much. 
It was as 'native' as I ever want to get, cold showers, most days a relief, but still, no other option. Having to sleep with open windows, fortunately mosquito control in Singapore is pretty good, and I was nine levels up, but the noise of people coming and going on bikes and trucks all night long, every night, was horrible. Don't mention the frequent overnight thunderstorms which shock you out of sleep like an artillery barrage... And then they have the Indonesian agricultural burnoff criminals to deal with as well. No thanks!


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## sweepy1900

Yeah I agree with everyone on here. Chiang Mai is nice but you have to remember about the smoke and smog every year, when farmers burn off the land for new crops - not exactly great for your health. However it is a lovely place and lots of countryside areas to visit. Chiang Mai does get cool at some points in the year but it also gets incredibly hot. Not sure about Ecuador though.


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