# concertado o public school



## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

Hey, 
I am trying to get an objective opinion on a topic that has been bothering my mind recently..concertado o bilingual public school an expat's opinion.

I recently moved my kids from a public school to a concertado school. The primary motivation for the move was a place where they could stay much longer after school (at that time, my place of work finished 5:00pm and their school could only keep them up until 5:30pm). I, however, changed jobs just they changed school to a place where I finish 4pm. So the primary motivation no longer holds.

I also had heard that in concertados, children tend to speak English a little better, the quality of education much higher, and the school tend to (a bit) more international. 

Beyond the increase in cost, the optics (we always thought kids look cooler in school uniform) and maybe the fancy platform where the teachers barrage us with a range of activities, things to buy and (of course) money to pay, I am struggling to see the difference in both. They use pretty much the same text books and the classes still have over 24 students...in fact, my son's public school had just about 22 students vs the 26 in his current class. The after-school options provided isn't even as varied as in the public school. 

This is only my first term, so maybe this is too soon to comment, but really can someone say why he (or she) decided concertado over the public school?Or which is preferred and why?

Thanks.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Mac Anthony123 said:


> I also had heard that in concertados, children tend to speak English a little better, the quality of education much higher, and the school tend to (a bit) more international.


What strange misconceptions.

My 3 children all went to a concertado for ESO and Bachi.

The quality of English spoken was no different to other languages (Spanish, Valencian, German etc.) and, in my opinion, no better or worse than other state schools in the area. 

Certainly the school was no more 'international' - in fact I would say it was less international. My children were the only English there and there were very few other nationalities.

I think the point I'm making is that it depends greatly on the area.

We chose a concertado as it offered better schooling. From talking to other parents and people in the area (all Spanish), we chose our school based on a number of factors.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I tend to agree with Snikpoh.

At the risk of offending the Spanish, the "quality" of the concertado is based principally on the fact that you pay for it, so it must be better.

In fact, when we looked for schools for our kids, several public schools scored quite a lot higher in the rankings of academic performance than the concertados in our area.

Of course, the physical installations and material in a concertado will be better, and as you say, they may offer more extra curricular activities simply becasue they have the extra budget, but Iam always concerned that (as per my understanding) the teachers in a concertado don't have to have passed the oposiciones, whereas in a public school of course they do.

However, in our case, what sealed the choice to avoid the concertados was the fact that all the concertados in our area were heavily religous (Catholic) which we did not want for our children, horses for courses.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> However, in our case, what sealed the choice to avoid the concertados was the fact that all the concertados in our area were heavily religous (Catholic) which we did not want for our children, horses for courses.


Ours are too. The one we chose is run by Nuns but the other is run by Monks.

Interestingly, our children have no religion, have not been baptised nor anything. It was fun for them when they attended communion. This did not stop them attending and religion was not forced on them.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I teach kids from both types of schools. They are often together in the same class and I see no difference other than the uniform. They are all lovely happy kids and they don't seem to have any problem mixing together. Kids from the paying schools tend to perform a bit better but that is probably more to do with the parents being more middle class and pushing for university.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm in a small town, not a big city, but the parents who choose the concertado do so mainly because of the religious aspect. Recruitment is falling, because the standard of teaching is lower especially in English. Both of our state schools are in the Andalusian bilingual programme and several subjects are taught in English. The staff are better qualified - they have to pass oposiciones to get a job in state schools. And of course there is no religious indoctrination.

For all these reasons, if I had children I would send them to state schools.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The concertado in the nearby town is run by nuns and the educational standard is, I understand, terrible.


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## Mac Anthony123 (Oct 21, 2013)

Overandout said:


> I tend to agree with Snikpoh.
> 
> At the risk of offending the Spanish, the "quality" of the concertado is based principally on the fact that you pay for it, so it must be better.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comment. I think the question I would like to ask then would be, how do you get the ranking of schools in any area in Spain? My Spanish isnt the best, so obviously my google search results on this topic never gave me fact based results.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Mac Anthony123 said:


> Thanks for your comment. I think the question I would like to ask then would be, how do you get the ranking of schools in any area in Spain? My Spanish isnt the best, so obviously my google search results on this topic never gave me fact based results.


As far as I know there is no "league table" ranking schools the way they do in the UK (don't know about Nigeria). Some individual schools publish their exam results and university entrance data. Are there other parents in the are you can talk to? Their opinions might be useful.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> As far as I know there is no "league table" ranking schools the way they do in the UK (don't know about Nigeria). Some individual schools publish their exam results and university entrance data. Are there other parents in the are you can talk to? Their opinions might be useful.


There was exactly that in Madrid a few years ago. You could look at the Madrid Community website and it would publish the results of the "prueba de nivel" for 6th year primary tests for each school. You could order the list by this result.

It seems however that this no longer exists. I have found a link to an article discussing the service from 2013, and when I came back to Spain in 2016 it was still available, but when you select the link, it now just takes you to a page which gives you info on the schools, but no "league table". 
However, the tests are still done, so I guess the results must be published somewhere. Perhaps a call to the Community of Madrid Education Department would be in order.
https://www.lavanguardia.com/local/...-ranking-de-centros-educativos-de-madrid.html


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Interesting article on the shortcomings of the bilingual teaching initiative.

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2018/12/05/actualidad/1544011044_830446.html

Although in principle it's a good idea, the biggest problem is that many teachers aren't up to teaching their subject in a second language. In Andalucia for example they only need B2, whereas in Madrid it's C1. And in concertados (in my experience anyway) they don't even need that.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

My kids go to a concertado in Madrid. We chose it because it was easier to get into than the local state schools. Also it takes kids through ESO (secondary school) as well, so we don't have to worry about looking for an instituto for a few more years.

I don't think there is much of a difference in education standards between concertados and state schools since, in order to receive their government subsidy, the concertados have to follow the same curriculum and get assessed in the same way as state schools. I think nearly all concertados were originally religeous and highly connected to the catholic church. However many have been taken over by coops and are no longer religeous (including the one our kids go to).

The concertado our kids go to has very poor facilities. It is basically the ground floors of a block of flats and doesn't even have its own playground. The kids have access to nearby facilities to do sport, etc, but the local state schools tend to have better facilities. It does have good teachers though.

We pay a grand total of €55/month for the concertado. It actually works out cheaper for us because the kids leave at 5 so we can pick them up after work without having to pay for extra childcare, I don't think the fact parents pay necessarily means they are more middle class in the case of our concertado.

That said, I think the concertado our kids go to is a bit of an exception. I've heard of concertados that apparently have low teaching standards but people try to send their kids there simply because it is a concertado. So I don´t think you should generally consider one type of school to be better than the other, you just need to check them out individually.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting article on the shortcomings of the bilingual teaching initiative.
> 
> https://elpais.com/sociedad/2018/12/05/actualidad/1544011044_830446.html
> 
> Although in principle it's a good idea, the biggest problem is that many teachers aren't up to teaching their subject in a second language. In Andalucia for example they only need B2, whereas in Madrid it's C1. And in concertados (in my experience anyway) they don't even need that.


Yeah this is something that concerns me. I'm ok with bilingual education in primary schools, but I feel it must be impossible for teachers to teach subjects in more detail in secondary schools if they're not teaching in their native tongue. How can they really engage students and make subjects interesting? It seems like they are compromising all other subjects for the sake of the children becoming completely bilingual in English, but if the teachers aren't really bilingual then children aren't going to become completely bilingual anyway.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Chopera said:


> Yeah this is something that concerns me. I'm ok with bilingual education in primary schools, but I feel it must be impossible for teachers to teach subjects in more detail in secondary schools if they're not teaching in their native tongue. How can they really engage students and make subjects interesting? It seems like they are compromising all other subjects for the sake of the children becoming completely bilingual in English, but if the teachers aren't really bilingual then children aren't going to become completely bilingual anyway.


We've had bilingual teaching here for seven years now. It's not just the quality of the teaching. I know kids who don't have a good grasp of English but are being taught maths in English, and their parents have to pay for extra classes in Spanish, just so they can get the grade. It should be optional I think, but there aren't the resources.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> We've had bilingual teaching here for seven years now. It's not just the quality of the teaching. I know kids who don't have a good grasp of English but are being taught maths in English, and their parents have to pay for extra classes in Spanish, just so they can get the grade. It should be optional I think, but there aren't the resources.


From El País English edition.:

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/12/1...?id_externo_nwl=newsletter_inenglish20181221m


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> From El País English edition.:
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/12/1...?id_externo_nwl=newsletter_inenglish20181221m


Looks like a translation of the article Alcalaina posted above


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Chopera said:


> Looks like a translation of the article Alcalaina posted above


It is indeed.


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## shabvm (Sep 11, 2016)

snikpoh said:


> What strange misconceptions.
> 
> My 3 children all went to a concertado for ESO and Bachi.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Can you please provide an example of concertados which you selected? I think it depends much on the area I prefer to live. But having an idea of concertados wil help selecting an area. Appreciate if you still remeber some details.

Thanks.


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