# Certificate of residency.. please help. HMRC



## Andrea92x

Hi,
So I applied for my certificate of residency a couple weeks back and I got this email today saying:

Thank you for your request for a certificate of residence.


As you have stated there is no foreign income to declare a "Letter of Confirmation of Residence" is more appropriate in your circumstances. This has been posted separately to you. You should receive it within the next 7 to 10 days. For more information search 'INTM162020' on our Website'.



I'm so beyond confused. Can anyone explain? I need this for my self employment taxes in America so I don't get doubled taxed. Thanks


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## underation

Did you look at INTM162020?


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## Andrea92x

Yes but I'm confused?


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## underation

Andrea92x said:


> Yes but I'm confused?


Why not just follow HMRC’s guidance?


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## Andrea92x

If you don't want to help me then why bother? I said I was confused by the email I just received and was wondering if anyone could understand it.


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## underation

Andrea92x said:


> If you don't want to help me then why bother? I said I was confused by the email I just received and was wondering if anyone could understand it.


The email said they’re sending you a letter which will be suitable for your purposes. I don’t see what the problem is.


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## Bevdeforges

Not to worry. We've had others through here with somewhat the same "problem."

The UK doesn't issue a "certificate of..." anything that corresponds exactly to what the US tax folks say they want to prove that you are covered under the UK social security system. What they are sending you is the closest equivalent available and it works just fine for US tax purposes.


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## Andrea92x

Thank you Bevdeforges for your response! I originally requested a 'Certificate of Residence' due to paying tax and national insurance here in the UK as I'm resident since 2016. 

That letter of confirmation of residence they speak of specifically states; 'This is *not *a Certificate of Residence for the purpose of claiming benefits under any double taxation agreement with the Uk'

Will this still suffice in the IRS' eyes?

Thanks in advance,
Andrea


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## underation

It’s suitable for your purposes, according to HMRC’s email, because you don’t have foreign income (therefore, I deduce, won’t be asking HMRC for foreign tax credits).

IMO


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## Bevdeforges

Andrea92x said:


> Thank you Bevdeforges for your response! I originally requested a 'Certificate of Residence' due to paying tax and national insurance here in the UK as I'm resident since 2016.
> 
> That letter of confirmation of residence they speak of specifically states; 'This is *not *a Certificate of Residence for the purpose of claiming benefits under any double taxation agreement with the Uk'
> 
> Will this still suffice in the IRS' eyes?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Andrea


If anyone questions it (which is pretty much doubtful), you tell them it's what they sent you when you requested the "Certificate of Residence" and then, if you're worried about it, take a copy of anything that shows that you've paid your social insurances in the UK. 

To be honest, the requirement has nothing to do with the "double taxation treaty" but rather with the "social security treaty" between the US and UK. All they want to know is that you're enrolled in the national social insurances - so send them what you got, and keep a copy for yourself. You might also stick a copy of whatever tax documents you have that show payment for the social insurances in with your US tax records. "Just in case" - but chances are you won't be asked about them.


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## Andrea92x

I can't thank you enough for explaining that, it's a big help and makes total sense. I have all the proof they'd ever need so I'm happy to do that.


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## underation

Bevdeforges said:


> To be honest, the requirement has nothing to do with the "double taxation treaty"...


Exactly. And therefore, as there’s no foreign income, the letter is, as the email said, more suitable for the purpose.


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## Andrea92x

Hi guys, its me again. So I'm getting ready to mail out my taxes tomorrow. I received my "letter of confirmation of residence " today. My only concern is that it says : To whom it may concern this is *not* a certificate of residence for the purpose of claiming benefits under any double taxation agreement with the UK. Then it goes on saying my name and how long I've been working self employed here and lastly it says I was a resident in the UK for tax purposes.

I just want to make sure this is okay to send in with my taxes to be exempt? It clearly states its not a certificate for double taxation but then it does say I worked in the UK for tax purpose. 

Thanks for the help, just a nervous nelly here.


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## cirrus

Andrea92x said:


> Hi guys, its me again. So I'm getting ready to mail out my taxes tomorrow. I received my "letter of confirmation of residence " today. My only concern is that it says : To whom it may concern this is *not* a certificate of residence for the purpose of claiming benefits under any double taxation agreement with the UK. *Then it goes on saying my name and how long I've been working self employed here and lastly it says I was a resident in the UK for tax purposes.*
> 
> I just want to make sure this is okay to send in with my taxes to be exempt? It clearly states its not a certificate for double taxation but then it does say I worked in the UK for tax purpose.
> 
> Thanks for the help, just a nervous nelly here.


HMRC are nothing like the IRS IMO, I think with that info you are good to go.


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## underation

cirrus said:


> HMRC are nothing like the IRS IMO.


I agree. But then, HMRC has much better infrastructure, and much, much better and fairer laws to rely on. Mostly, HMRC doesn’t need to be nasty.

The laws shape the agency, IMO.


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## underation

underation said:


> I agree. But then, HMRC has much better infrastructure, and much, much better and fairer laws to rely on. Mostly, HMRC doesn’t need to be nasty.
> 
> The laws shape the agency, IMO.


For instance: America (like Britain, Canada, France, Australia, and most other countries), taxes residents on their worldwide income (unless a treaty says otherwise), and taxes non-residents on US-source income (unless a treaty says otherwise).

But it’s only the IRS that has to uphold the pretence that America can tax the worldwide income of non-residents using citizenship as a proxy for residence.

Similarly, many countries have exit taxes; but only the IRS is obliged to instruct (some) former citizens to waive their treaty rights and agree to pay tax on future earnings of worldwide assets.

It seems to me it would be hard for any tax agency to be reasonable if required by law to behave unreasonably.


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