# Is there some truth in that?



## fastpumpkin (May 9, 2011)

Hi everyone :ranger:

I don't mean to sound like an antediluvian gentleman in a tweed jacket but recently after having whizzed through various articles, I have started to question the veracity of the supposedly ever so widely acclaimed notion that Dubai is a very welcoming megapolis. So, as I was contemplating a start of a new life there, I stumbled upon this here, which is an excerpt from lovingdubai dot com (not allowed to post links yet)

Nationality and Appearance

In the UAE, where you come from also affects the salary you get.
For example, there was an American working the exact same job as an Indian - the American received Dhs. 3,000 while the Indian received Dhs. 1,500.
The nationality and appearance factor will normally start from your resume, as many companies require you to send a picture with your resume.
After that when you come down for a interview, many people, though highly qualified, don't get the job because of their looks.

I don't know whether to laugh, rant or cry especially in respect of the last sentence 
:jaw:

Any thoughts from old hands?

Thanks

Alex


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## xchaos777 (Dec 15, 2010)

There is some truth to that for sure...the larger the company the more it is true I think.

I for one, have a budget I have to stay inside. So I look for the best qualified person I can find, with the best personality, that fits inside that budget. The numbers don't lie for me, and I certainly can't pay twice for the same job based on where the passport is from.

With 2 qualified candidates that are otherwise the same, but one a westerner wanting twice the money...who do you think I am going to hire?


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## cami (Aug 11, 2010)

fastpumpkin said:


> Hi everyone :ranger:
> 
> I don't mean to sound like an antediluvian gentleman in a tweed jacket but recently after having whizzed through various articles, I have started to question the veracity of the supposedly ever so widely acclaimed notion that Dubai is a very welcoming megapolis. So, as I was contemplating a start of a new life there, I stumbled upon this here, which is an excerpt from lovingdubai dot com (not allowed to post links yet)
> 
> ...


yes, there's truth...

so if you want to come here, make sure you bleach your skin, start exercising regularly in an expensive gym, get rid of the beer belly, grow hair in visible parts only, grow taller if you're a shortie, drink rose water instead of mouth wash, and accessorize with a 4x4 just 'cause you can afford one here, a montblanc watch, and armani suits and shades.

thus disguised, no one will pay attention to what you can really say or do


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

I drove past about 35 guys digging a trench today. My brother is a mechanic for a large firm in the usa. They would have two guys out there with the right equipment and it would be dug in about 4 hours. These guys will work five or six days to dig the same trench. Makes no sense to me but somehow in the middle east, it is better to hire unskilled labourers and use tools from the 1800's then modern equipment and skilled individuals. ???? Meanwhile, the western guy is sitting in his air conditioned truck watching them where as in the real world, that guy would be working with another guy and the thing would be finished. 

Obviously laborers are a bit different then office personnel. If someone will accept what is unlivable conditions for most westerns, and the company can continue to pay the few westerners 30,000 + a month, why not pay someone 5000 to 6000 and provide no other benefits. Unfortunately, it isnt just the companies fault. The situation has some blame on those who will take these low low salaries... And does anyone blame a westerner coming and sitting on their ass making double what they make in their own country?

What needs to happen which will not, is a minimum wage and the school situation here to get some regulation. 50 to 60 kids in an indian class for 8,000 or less dirhams a month isnt exactly a fair situation so that the westerners kids can sit 20 to a class at 45000+. 

If you can overlook the dismal human rights here, and are white or a very very good cv if not with the right passport/skin color, I would say dubai is a great place if you have upper level management skills.

Things are not going to change anytime in dubai. This is just how it is here.... And dont mind me, I hate the place


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

fastpumpkin said:


> Hi everyone :ranger:
> 
> After that when you come down for a interview, many people, though highly qualified, don't get the job because of their looks.
> 
> ...


Put yourself in the employer's shoes. If you were to hire someone good in a market where you have tons of skilled workers available for that job willing to work for as much as 3000K AED, would not you hire from that pool? Why would you hire someone twice as expensive ?

However, there are occupations where employers require specific credentials/ experience. For those I believe they look for people coming from western countries. The job that I do today had this on the post " ..Must have G-7 experience from these types of organizations" Guess it is pretty specific.

I am not saying that there is logic in everything. Discrimination exists everywhere. 
If you have a brown guy born and raised in the west competing with a western guy for a job where everything else are comparable except the "looks", you are right; the western guy would have some advantage.

BTW, I am brownie


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Jynxgirl said:


> My brother is a mechanic for a large firm in the usa. They would have two guys out there with the right equipment and it would be dug in about 4 hours.


I'm guessing that your brother can also leave the two guys on their own and come back and find the trench dug rather than 35 guys asleep under a tree?

Also it's a slight misnomer (and slightly offensive) that westerners just watch, I know plenty people (and include myself actually) that are only too willing to roll their sleeves up when needs be.

I don't deny that the bulk of labourers work very hard and live in bad conditions, I don't deny there is an unfair pay scale here but one of the reasons for *some* western high salaries is that they get jobs done to an acceptable calibre.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

We're in the 3rd world here. That's just the way it is the world over. The OP can't begin to compare the uk to the UAE. They're light years (well perhaps 40-50 years) apart


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## fastpumpkin (May 9, 2011)

Thank you for your insightful replies people. 

Yes, I have heard about the appalling blue-collar workers' situation there and I hope that I'm wrong but methinks that there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

I am white with an austrian passport and will graduate in Publishing from Oxford Brookes Uni, thus I'd be looking for a job in publishing. 

So have you all gained what you had hoped for before you moved or has it just become an alternative to live in (with). In other words do all the pros (in Dubai) outweigh the pros ( where you came from) so that you can turn the blind eye on the cons?


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

If you're austrian and use words like antediluvian then I'm impressed (or is that just a Latin word anyway??). Might want to dumb down your english for those of us English without such a range of vocabulary. 

If you post what you would hope to achieve whilst here we might be able to comment. Much depends on your attitude. If you open to new things/cultures and meeting people then I expect you will achieve your aim. If like some who post on here (this thread) nothing will ever compare to home then you're well advised to stay at home!


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

My US dollar's worth here... I have a degree (BEng) from a very good university in the States and an advanced post-d from one of the top ranked business schools in the world really and never once thought that my nationality or skin color makes a durn diff but here yes it sure does. In fact upon learning of the extreme interest from a very large employer here (500+ employees @ about 100 executive and 400 mid-lower level and factory) I was asking my recruiter "but why me?"

To keep this short the various answers given me were in order of ranking by my wonderful recruiter from Mumbai; 

You are American 
White
Degreed (double)
Bachelor
With No Physical Defect (I liked that one)
Author of many rag-mag articles
No children to bring along
And vastly experienced at what the co needs. 

What the foop over there pardner? 

What to me is the primary here is the last? Yup. 

And as a senior exec in the construction trades... yes I also know of the horrendous history and conditions the poor fella's are at this very night while I'm typing on my laptop and schnorting a white wine... and then the demi-god status I enjoy within the company of dark men from many many places and many with many years experience within the company and no they were not offered even the chance at interview for my position... they are really too dark or too Indian or too Middle Eastern or whateverrrrrrr... and the idea of hiring a female? O no. Someone in a wheelchair couldn't get to my floors in the offices. Not what you would call ADA Compliant. 

The end. 

Tiger T

Criteria unthinkable to me and yet and quite the norm here.


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## fastpumpkin (May 9, 2011)

I don't have the intention to sound snotty or anything, I just love English language and I am always on the prowl for some interesting ways of saying things, that's all.

As far as the topic is concerned, I am just curious to find out how to make those years of sweat and blood pay off and what hurdles will I be up against. It just never occured to me that I would have to even think about issues like accent, passport, whether I'm black, green, brown or purple etc. in order to succeed in getting a job.
:ranger:


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

fastpumpkin said:


> I don't have the intention to sound snotty or anything, I just love English language and I am always on the prowl for some interesting ways of saying things, that's all.
> 
> As far as the topic is concerned, I am just curious to find out how to make those years of sweat and blood pay off and what hurdles will I be up against. It just never occured to me that I would have to even think about issues like accent, passport, whether I'm black, green, brown or purple etc. in order to succeed in getting a job.
> :ranger:


I have mentioned here on several posts before but it is one of my all time fav quotes from a very dear brother of mine... Blind Bob has many sayings... one of them is "I don't care what you look like, I only care how you treat me..."

And as said here before... "said the blind guy". 

Wouldn't it be nice to be more like Blind Bob and not care the appearance of others and only look to how they treat you or how they act or what's inside instead of the frippery that's outside?

I try and live my life that way every day. Whatever yer your color I don't care but I have met so many that do care. Where you're from? Makes you better or worse than me? Why is that? Whom do you pray to? What orientation are you in the bedroom? Where was your father born? What church of whatever description do you attend or do not attend? What U-Ring do you wear? What's your school tie? 

Blah Blah Blah?

I like my life better not caring and focus on the good things that matter. My skin color or lack thereof makes no diff to me and yours makes no diff to me either. And yes those that want me to care seem to be angered at my lack of care...

TT


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Just curious..you are about to get your undergrad degree. Why do you want to start off in Dubai ?

I think that Dubai is for more experienced expats. I am not saying you should not try, but I cannot picture myself being a new grad and then going to Dubai and then trying to get a job back in my home country.

That might not work in your favour in the end. First off no employer will invest you in here. By invest, I mean provide training. Hands on training is a joke here. Although I believe in some places you might find it. Sure you will in your CV that you have international experience.

Back home lot of employers provide training to their employees so you don't get "rusted" and we can progress in your career.

@ Work here, they do not have a policy for training Expats just Locals. I bet that here 95% of employers don't invest in expats just locals, but the truth is we need to get trained and updated in our skills. Continuous learning is part of the game. No wonder why they prefer expats with more experience.


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## rebeccatess (Dec 17, 2009)

Very true. My boss will ask where someone is from and tell our admin girl to offer them a salary range without even seeing their CV or interviewing. Asians probably 3 or 4 times lower than a Western person and non UAE Arabs around half a western person.
Sad thing is it is pretty much expected and accepted and people can't really complain as most companies think it is fine (which is is certainly not!)


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

rebeccatess said:


> Very true. My boss will ask where someone is from and tell our admin girl to offer them a salary range without even seeing their CV or interviewing.


For those justifying differences in payscales based on the fact that westerners get jobs done to an "acceptable calibre", how does offering salaries without even knowing of a person's experience/qualification make any sense ?


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## Kawasutra (May 2, 2011)

rebeccatess said:


> Asians probably 3 or 4 times lower than a Western person and non UAE Arabs around half a western person.
> Sad thing is it is pretty much expected and accepted and people can't really complain as most companies think it is fine (which is is certainly not!)


That´s not true IMHO. I know of some none UAE arabs with salaries of 25-30k with no experience and philipinas with 13-18k in administration job´s.
Of course these jobs where given by a favor of a friend and not based on qualification, but anyhow they exist.


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

I think the important part in the above post is, "Of course these jobs were given by a favour"


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## Lita_Rulez (Nov 4, 2010)

What I really love is that this part of the world is being put down for something that is happening the world over. Now I agree that the scale is orders of magnitude larger than that of most countries westerners come from. But if you think about it, really honestly think about it, the justification that "westerners get the job done to an acceptable degree" is utter BS.

The world over, and I will take construction as an example, because in every single country I have lived in, or have friends living in, the same holds true, and it is verified in the UAE.

You take unskilled labour, because they are dirt cheap. As they are unskilled, by definition, they make a mess of things, and you need someone with a great experience to supervise them. So you have one very competent guy, who makes the cheap labour look bad because they are blotching such an easy job. He gets paid much more then they do. And everyone finds that to be logical, as he is so much better at the job then they are in the first place.

Transpose this to Dubai, and things are the same, albeit on a large scale, and using nationalities as a measure of skills.

But the same rational is true. 

While it is true that the supervisor can get the team of unskilled labourer from whatever country to get more done than they would accomplish on their own, is it really the performance of the supervisor which is exceptional, or just the contrast with the labour the company has CHOSEN to pay dirt cheap ?

In other words if you feed them peanuts, don't be surprised you get monkeys.


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## jd2222245 (May 1, 2011)

I think it's a social justice issue! Until the people of the country recognize this issue as a problem, the country will remain the same. I’m a college professor who recognizes that students should explore the idea of social justice and how it influences their life. I plan to continue this but realize that I will have to modify how I go about allowing my students to explore the world through mathematics.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Lita_Rulez said:


> ...You take unskilled labour, because they are dirt cheap. As they are unskilled, by definition, they make a mess of things, and you need someone with a great experience to supervise them. So you have one very competent guy, who makes the cheap labour look bad because they are blotching such an easy job. He gets paid much more then they do. And everyone finds that to be logical, as he is so much better at the job then they are in the first place...


+1

I am not in construction business, but having lived and worked in ME countries for past 10 years, I confirm that Lita brought up a very important point.

Competent people working in ME deserve the $ because they have to deal with "peanut-eating-monkeys" 24/7, and it is not easy to constantly having to teach-then-reteach-then-reteach and clean up messes...


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes, but in my experience you are just as likely to run into equally inept monkeys in the offices of any governement body here and do you think for one moment that they are on peanuts? In Dubai some animals are more equal than others.


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## Ben_130 (Jan 24, 2011)

Even though we all think everybody should be treated equally, would anyone recommended that during my current job search I should add my picture to my CV, upload it to the various recruitment websites I have recently joined?


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Depends what type of british individual you are.


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## Ben_130 (Jan 24, 2011)

Jynxgirl said:


> Depends what type of british individual you are.


Young, good looking....


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Ben_130 said:


> Young, good looking....


What I was asking in reality, is if you are white?  But come along for a night out, and the girl ef'ers will have a say on this matter


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## Ben_130 (Jan 24, 2011)

Jynxgirl said:


> What I was asking in reality, is if you are white?  But come along for a night out, and the girl ef'ers will have a say on this matter


Yes I am white. It is horrible to know that makes a difference! I also dont have my D.O.B on my CV. Not sure if I should put it on?
As for the night out, not sure if my girlfriend will let me and you might see that I was lying about my looks!!!


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## Kawasutra (May 2, 2011)

Felixtoo2 said:


> Yes, but in my experience you are just as likely to run into equally inept monkeys in the offices of any governement body here and do you think for one moment that they are on peanuts? In Dubai some animals are more equal than others.


Good point....:thumb:

Like last time when the so called " highly paid" government officer at the immigration mixed up my VISA number and I was caught at the e-gate...:doh:


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## wildgoosekl (May 17, 2011)

fastpumpkin said:


> Thank you for your insightful replies people.
> 
> Yes, I have heard about the appalling blue-collar workers' situation there and I hope that I'm wrong but methinks that there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> ...


My view, it depends on what you are looking especially outside office hour. Willing to experience life [ both positive and not so positive ones ] in a different world from yours and of yours ? Willing to celebrate differences and embrace similarities ? If yes, why not lane: the world is big and waiting for you to explore !


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