# Architect houses, solar hot water and solar PV systems



## Twain (May 24, 2009)

Hi!

So, since last time I was here (on the forum) I've spent a year in Spain.
The choice fell on the Murcia region, at a golf resort 20 minutes inland from Mar Menor.
And I've got a couple of lessons learned. 
Luxury is not a standard and the spanish winter is very cold.
I did not expect a palace, but it would be nice if one did not have to sit in fully clothed and freeze during the winter.
Other than that the stay was perfect.
I got to see the coast from Gibraltar and all the way up to the french border.
Not once but 8 times, So I've seen a lot of places (not only the beach, but some inland too).

Nevertheless, I've started planning my move to Spain.
I have a close eye on the economy in Spain but it won't affect me much, as my income will be steady, and from Norway.

What I've learned from the many trips up and down the coast is that I don't want/need to live on the beach.
And as far away as possible from the tourist places that are ghost towns most of the year.
15-20 minutes inland would be fine, and I'm currently looking at the Vinuela reservoir area (east of Malaga, and just north of Torre del Mar).
Or someplace like that on the south cost at least.

I do have some questions.

I'm looking for catalogues of architect houses (external and internal views and floor plans).
But have not had any luck in my search.
Or at least ideas of what's possible and what architect company to trust.
And I need them to be good (the builders too) with new technology as I want to build a modern low-energy house.
Key here is good insulation, water-based underfloor heating system and the right type of windows, LED lights etc.

Solar hotwater systems, how much of the hot water can it provide in the south of Spain?
I know the teoretical answer, but any experience with this is better then those numbers.

Solar PV systems, I'm looking at a 10 kWp system (with batteries).
Someone with experience with such systems?
I've got a lot of numbers from it, but they all seem a bit too high.
In theory, I know that 1 m2 can generate 1800kWh a year.
And the 10 kWp system I've looked at then gives me over 18000 kWh a year from those numbers.
But that number is gross and not net I think?
Again, any experience with this would be nice to hear about.

Thanks for reading.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Twain said:


> Solar hotwater systems, how much of the hot water can it provide in the south of Spain?
> I know the teoretical answer, but any experience with this is better then those numbers.
> 
> Solar PV systems, I'm looking at a 10 kWp system (with batteries).
> ...


Hot water for domestic use or for heating also? If you expect to fully heat the house that's a fairly large system. Likely a wasteful system during the rest of the year. If you just mean domestic then I'd expect most of your hotwater.

Why batteries? If they let you do grid connect batteries don't make any sense IMHO. 

You have the cost and maintenance of the batteries. 

You need to oversize the system to handle worst case winter periods.


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

I was thinking hot water for heating (water-based underfloor heating only, during the winter) if possible (generates enough hot water during the winter?) and domestic use. And I've seen some heat their pool to (go get 9 months instead of 4).

Batteries, because most of the power will be used when the sun is down (lights, AC, computers, TV and so on). So if I can't store the sunlight to be used when the sun is down I don't see how I can possible save on a PV system at all (but I think they're mandatory on new houses now?)

I will be connected to the grid, so I don't need to oversize the system for the few bad winter periods. (The year I spent did have very good conditions all year round).
And, 10 kWp I think is more than enough - but only if my numers are right.
So again, any real life numbers here would be nice.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Twain said:


> I was thinking hot water for heating (water-based underfloor heating only, during the winter) if possible (generates enough hot water during the winter?) and domestic use. And I've seen some heat their pool to (go get 9 months instead of 4).
> 
> Batteries, because most of the power will be used when the sun is down (lights, AC, computers, TV and so on). So if I can't store the sunlight to be used when the sun is down I don't see how I can possible save on a PV system at all (but I think they're mandatory on new houses now?)
> 
> ...


You should google grid tie solar systems.

You "store" the power by selling the excess you make to the power company.

I just did a quick search and it seems it'll depend on the area you have the home.

The hotwater question is way too open ended. Type of house. Size of system. Weather.

You've already mentioned the important bit of high insulation etc.

Pool heating during the sunnier months is almost free. The system that is big enough for Feb is going to be over sized May so handling the pool isn't an issue.

I think you really need an engineer or somebody else that can look over the house and help you decide on the trade offs.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

PANELES SOLARES Tienda online para paneles solares

Look at the link. It'll show how you avoid batteries.


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

Selling back to the power company is no longer possible in Spain.

Never mind the hotwater system, that's not the main issue.
I get that it's large enough to my general needs.

What I would like to know, is what kind of net kWh people get from their PV systems in the south of Spain during the year. (And what kWp system they've got).
Any real life experince is better than the theoretical numbers.

Just trying to figure out what to expect to generate and possible save on the power bill.


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## 111KAB (Aug 3, 2012)

With regard to your Architect and standard/catalogue plans I would be inclined to look in your own country first for ideas. The plot of land you purchase and its orientation are going to have a distinct bearing on the design eg if the land slopes your designer will need to plan building levels to suit plus south facing roofs for the solar aspect. Ultimately you will need to use a Spanish Architect however if you go to them with a well prepared brief and sketch proposals it will make life easier for you (and them!). 
Obviously obtaining land where you are sure your design (planning permission) can be incorporated/achieved is the main consideration.


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## Swerve (Jun 29, 2011)

Twain I've looked @ this option for the uk and I was told as long as you have an old meter the electricity you generate through the day actually turns the meter backwards and then you just use normal grid electric on a night when needed. Don't know if it's the same for Spain. The only way the electric company's can tell is if they fit a new smart meter. Btw for the last 6 months I have been heating upto 21 litres of water in a black bin using sunlight to a very high temp ideal for washing dishes and a cheap bath.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Have you looked at a Huf House ? Modern timber-frame architecture in wood and glass: - HUF HAUS
Ch 4 (?) ran a few programs about these houses & the company a few years back, very impressive (and expensive no doubt)


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

Swerve said:


> the electricity you generate through the day actually turns the meter backwards and then you just use normal grid electric on a night when needed. Don't know if it's the same for Spain.


Not the same in Spain, for the moment (as far as I can tell).
But I've found out that I generate enough power in my plans to cover my needs.
Time will tell, new regulations and new technology may change everything several times before I settle on a sollution here.

My plan is still around 2015, but the crisis and everything keeps pushing that date further away at the moment.


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

playamonte said:


> Have you looked at a Huf House ? Modern timber-frame architecture in wood and glass: - HUF HAUS
> Ch 4 (?) ran a few programs about these houses & the company a few years back, very impressive (and expensive no doubt)


Yes, I have.
But I don't think a house full of windows is the right thing in Spain.
And I don't think a wooden house is the way to go in Spain either.
Also, the design is a bit too open for my taste, i like rooms 

I'm still googling and looking at pictures of all sort of houses in Spain.
Mainly detached villas in the countryside.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Twain said:


> Yes, I have.
> But I don't think a house full of windows is the right thing in Spain.
> And I don't think a wooden house is the way to go in Spain either.
> Also, the design is a bit too open for my taste, i like rooms
> ...


From memory you can have any configuration you desire & made from some cutting edge materials.
They ...................? look at the web link, or there again not.


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

playamonte said:


> From memory you can have any configuration you desire & made from some cutting edge materials.
> They ...................? look at the web link, or there again not.


I'm thinking more of spanish modern design and materials.
But not ultra modern either (hard to please I guess)


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