# Experience not accepted but my agent suggests me to apply for EOI showing experience?



## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

I am an engineer and I got my skills assessed from Engineers Australia. 
My experience was relevant but since my salary was below taxable income they did not accept my experience.
My agent then suggested and we applied for EOI claiming experience points_(which was not accepted by Engineers Australia)._
Anyways, we got an invitation to apply.

Now for Visa application, 

Should I apply for it? what if they verify Engineers Australia about my experience. I will loose 5400$ for the application.

or Should I raise an appeal to the Engineers Australia to re check my experience, as the company I worked paid me less but the experience was verifiable and relevant.
What do experts here suggest?


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## Vovo (Aug 7, 2016)

I am.not an expert but my understanding is for visa application you need to submit evidence for the points claim in EOI? What will you provide? You will lose your money for nothing. 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Deliberating applying for a visa and claiming imaginary points is fraud. And downright foolish.

If EA did not accept your skilled work experience, then you cannot claim the points. DIBP will not need to "verify with EA" as the skills assessment letter has already indicated that you do not have the work experience to claim those points. 

If you lodge the visa application, you will get refused and a likely ban due to PIC4020.


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

Vovo said:


> I am.not an expert but my understanding is for visa application you need to submit evidence for the points claim in EOI? What will you provide? You will lose your money for nothing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


but my agent is confident that he can prove work experience to them via (my experience letters, salary slips etc)


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## kienrock (Jul 18, 2016)

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Your experience evident via employment reference(s), salary slip(s) and so on is one thing.
That experience is relevant or not is another.
You can proof you have experience but according to your information, EA already assessed it irrelevant so that you cannot claim those point.


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

rana470 said:


> I am an engineer and I got my skills assessed from Engineers Australia.
> My experience was relevant but since my salary was below taxable income they did not accept my experience.
> My agent then suggested and we applied for EOI claiming experience points_(which was not accepted by Engineers Australia)._
> Anyways, we got an invitation to apply.
> ...



third pary documents are required for proving evidence, however if you want to take risk then gather enough documents to prove your claim else it will be a loss

I am not much aware about tax system in your country, can you get a government document where it shows that filing income tax is not mandatory if it is below some threshold limit, this may strengthen your point


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

I believe it depends which else supporting documents you have.
And its interesting with EA - to assess indian work experience they asked for Form 26AS. But this form in only available from 2008 onwards. Does it mean we can't claim any work experience gained before 2008? I doubt so. As I can see DIBP assess work experience on case by case base and I have read here on this forum that people were able to prove work experience without income tax certificates providing offer letter, pay slips and bank statements etc


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

Ola.V said:


> I believe it depends which else supporting documents you have.
> And its interesting with EA - to assess indian work experience they asked for Form 26AS. But this form in only available from 2008 onwards. Does it mean we can't claim any work experience gained before 2008? I doubt so. As I can see DIBP assess work experience on case by case base and I have read here on this forum that people were able to prove work experience without income tax certificates providing offer letter, pay slips and bank statements etc


yes, the other documents should be strong enough

claiming experience points needs two things

1. you were working with xyz company - could be provided with service certificate from HR, salary slip, bank statements, income tax documents

2. you were working with xyz company in abc role - could be proved with roles and responsibility letter


Final judgement is in hands of DIBP


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> third pary documents are required for proving evidence, however if you want to take risk then gather enough documents to prove your claim else it will be a loss
> 
> I am not much aware about tax system in your country, can you get a government document where it shows that filing income tax is not mandatory if it is below some threshold limit, this may strengthen your point


Yes, I can send them link of Government official website. Where the tax brackets are defined. Out of my 6 years experience. Only my last year salary was taxable. My salary slips states that, I obtain a letter from company stating the details about the tax they deducted from my salary. 
but Is there any way to get it verified from EA? *Is an appeal possible?*

How does the agent communicated with the EA agent? Is it through their website account or is it via email. I really want to have a look on that. Because the letter from EA doesn't state why they didn't accept my experience.
He is a registered MARA agent btw.

My letter is attached for reference.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Its more likely that you failed with "third party documents". Which documents did you provide to support your work experience apart of reference letter?


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> Its more likely that you failed with "third party documents". Which documents did you provide to support your work experience apart of reference letter?


Is there a way to get these details from EA? The absolute reason for not accepting?

I provided letter from Manager, Salary slips, Provident fund report. Thats what my agent asked.


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

rana470 said:


> Yes, I can send them link of Government official website. Where the tax brackets are defined. Out of my 6 years experience. Only my last year salary was taxable. My salary slips states that, I obtain a letter from company stating the details about the tax they deducted from my salary.
> but Is there any way to get it verified from EA? *Is an appeal possible?*
> 
> How does the agent communicated with the EA agent? Is it through their website account or is it via email. I really want to have a look on that. Because the letter from EA doesn't state why they didn't accept my experience.
> ...


pardon me but I am getting confused, have you paid tax or not ??? because in this post you say *I obtain a letter from company stating the details about the tax they deducted from my salary. *.. if you can obtain an evidence of this tax deducted/submitted to government, then it will help you


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Yes, you should ask your agent to ask EA - as you applied through agent all communicatios supposed to be done also through agent.
It seems like I was correct - not enough "3rd party documents"


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Let me put it a different way:

EA has deemed that specific employment period to be non-relevant for migration purpose. Are you telling me that your agent is wanting to challenge (or "prove") to DIBP that it should be counted for the points despite what EA has said? This is a gamble, and if you have $$$ to spare, then go ahead and risk that. 

You should either sack your agent and find another, or get your agent to appeal the EA assessment.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Everyone has got own opinion.
Ours is - if experience was not recognized due to task performed by you dont match requirements but you still claim it - its fraud but if its all about documents - its not fraud as EA and DIBP have different requirements.


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> Everyone has got own opinion.
> Ours is - if experience was not recognized due to task performed by you dont match requirements but you still claim it - its fraud but if its all about documents - its not fraud as EA and DIBP have different requirements.


EA and DIBP have different requirements? Mean i can by pass EA fully?
Where can I view their requirements?


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

DIBP requirements:
Evidence of any claimed skilled employment or self-employment in the 10 year period immediately before you were invited to apply, such as:


employment references
 contracts, pay slips, tax returns, group certificates
 evidence that you have been self-employed
 any other documents that you provided to the relevant assessing authority to obtain your skills assessment, including any documents relating to your employment history.
As I understand tax returns are not mandatory if you have another supporting documents
Skilled Independent visa (subclass 189) document checklist

Its my only opinion, I cant tell for sure. Its our own decision and risk.


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## destinedtobe (Jan 11, 2016)

rana470 said:


> I am an engineer and I got my skills assessed from Engineers Australia.
> My experience was relevant but since my salary was below taxable income they did not accept my experience.
> My agent then suggested and we applied for EOI claiming experience points_(which was not accepted by Engineers Australia)._
> Anyways, we got an invitation to apply.
> ...


Hi, for Engineers Australia assessment, is it required to go for language test first? Which language test did you sit in? Or do they require IELTS only? What band?


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Ola.V said:


> DIBP requirements:
> Evidence of any claimed skilled employment or self-employment in the 10 year period immediately before you were invited to apply, such as:
> 
> 
> ...


You are forgetting the more 'basic' DIBP requirements: 

Skilled employment is where:
(1) the relevant assessing authority provides an opinion in your suitable skills assessment that your employment is skilled (you must use the date that skilled employment commenced stated in your skills assessment) 

(2) your employment experience meets the standards for skilled employment set by the relevant assessing authority on their website.

In this case, the OP has not met (2) because EA has deemed that particular employment period to not have met their standards.

Getting a review from EA is probably the safest route.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Than what about those people who didnt assess their work experience with EA at all and got their grants?


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

And one more question - if only professional body opinion would be enough- than why do they ask all supporting documents? Would not outcome letter be enough?
All this makes me think that its not that easy.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Ola.V said:


> Than what about those people who didnt assess their work experience with EA at all and got their grants?


Individual cases cannot always be used to provide justification. Rules are rules. What happens if DIBP enforces them much more strictly? 

If you are advising OP to take a risk and gamble, then no worries at all. It is probably only money that can potentially go down the drain.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

We are here to share our experience and opinions.
Its up to OP to listen to different viewpoints and make a decision.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

And also - I am not convincing what to do.
I told what do I think and why.
Thats all


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## shets (May 18, 2016)

Hi Rana,

Congratulations on your +EA outcome letter. Now you need to understand few things,

1) This is your VISA application. You may take the agents view but you need to take the final call.
2) It is not mandatory to get your work experience assessed by EA in order to apply for a visa.
3) Since, your salary was not in the tax bracket, then you need to gather as much as possible, employment related documents and more importantly third party related documents.
4) DIBP normally deals visa applications on a case to case basis.

Alternatively, work out your points and see if you can manage not to claim the points. For this, you need to see how many points you require for your occupation code, how many you have. Also, if possible try and increase your point score..

All the best!


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

destinedtobe said:


> Hi, for Engineers Australia assessment, is it required to go for language test first? Which language test did you sit in? Or do they require IELTS only? What band?


you need to have competent english (IELTS 6 or equivalent) for assessment by EA

EA accepts IELTS and TOEFL only


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

check if your agent is MARA registered?
If not i think you are being misguided.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

You should not have gone for EA employment assessment but now as it is pn your outcome letter then this would create discrepency anf DIBP could make issues out of it.
Is there any chanve you can go for new assessment but this time for qualification only

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

rk2oz said:


> check if your agent is MARA registered?
> If not i think you are being misguided.


My agent is MARA registered

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> Than what about those people who didnt assess their work experience with EA at all and got their grants?


Really? Are there people out there who got immigration without EA assessment? 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Without work experience assessment. With only skills assessment


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## Guilhermebv (Nov 7, 2016)

My friend, if you have been invited and apply without experience assessment, the DIBP may not consider your experience and you will lose your application fee. But you can try it.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Does anyone know real case when it really happenned? I mean when applicant in the same situation got his application rejected despite documents provided to DIBP?


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## rana470 (Oct 19, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> Does anyone know real case when it really happenned? I mean when applicant in the same situation got his application rejected despite documents provided to DIBP?


Yes I would like to know that too. Is there any one who got accepted or rejected his skill experience without EA assessment or without EA positive assessment


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Ola.V said:


> Does anyone know real case when it really happenned? I mean when applicant in the same situation got his application rejected despite documents provided to DIBP?


The OP case is quite different from the other cases. These people usually did not had their employment assessed by EA (i.e., the "Additional Assessment Services").

If the EA assessment letter (with the additional service) clearly stated that the employment period is not accepted, DIBP is more likely to go follow what is stated.

EA additional assessment is not compulsory, and some applicants do not go for it. In the MSA booklet, it states: "Work experience should be paid at the market or salaried rate for engineering professionals". 

So, the OP's migration agent put him in a cornered situation. It is one thing to submit documentations to prove something (if the Additional assessment was not done). It is more challenging to submit documentations to 'disprove' the already written EA assessment letter (with the non-accepted experience written).

An review with EA and to get a new assessment letter (without stating anything about that particular employment period) is probably the safest option.


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

rana470 said:


> Really? Are there people out there who got immigration without EA assessment?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


there are forum members who did assessment only for qualification, they had more than enough documents to support claim for experience points, they got grant without any fuss.

spaniant is one of them


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

*dave85*
Its not an answer to my question.
Its still your opinion. And I respect that. May be you are correct.
Note - its not a fight but discussion.
But its very important question so I want facts.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

dave85 said:


> If the EA assessment letter (with the additional service) clearly stated that the employment period is not accepted, DIBP is more likely to go follow what is stated


Why do you think so?


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

Am I missing something ?? On page 1 OP posted his assessment letter where it just says about the qualification, nothing seems to be mentioned about rejection of experience period 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/at...-160824-msa-cdr-outcome-letter-5350747-1-.pdf

please correct me if i am wrong


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## Brian_Tourbillon (Aug 1, 2016)

you can only claim work experience points if such experience is RELEVANCE to your skill. That is why the authority parties (i.e EA) is required to involve to verify your experience. In your case, EA rejected your experience is likely highly that such experience may not relevance to your skill.


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## sharafatal (Feb 27, 2017)

Dears,

Anyone knows about Rana( who started this thread), his problem solved or Not?
I checked his outcome letter, there was noting mentioned about his work experience is irrelevant.


Thanks.
Ali


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## vashishtankit (Aug 19, 2017)

I am an engineer and I got my skills assessed from Engineers Australia.
My assessor had demanded form 26AS for employment tenure but as my salary was below taxable income, so no tax was deducted from my salary and I am unable to provide 26AS. Even after providing Provident Fund Statement (third party document) as it is advised in MSA Booklet to prove my work experience, still Engineer Australia does not accept my work experience. 

Can I apply to 189 and 190 visa to without relevant skilled employment assessment by Engineers Australia. Please guide


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## Tsveti (Mar 6, 2017)

*rana470*, what happened to your case? Did you lodge back then and if yes, what was the outcome?


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