# spain and its economic situation



## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Hello to everyone. When i come on here and read up on some of the threads, i feel quite depressed, but it hasnt put me off to come to spain. My situation is that my OH has a business in england, and he intends to keep it there, we have a mobile home on the coast which we bought last year, and we have a good life in england although the weather is horrid. The reasons we would want to come to spain are not to find work but to retire and we are only in our fortys. Life surely is for living and taking educated risks, and not to be so negative about the economic situation, yes we are aware that spain is going through its hardest time ever! and that there is no work for anyone, but being all doom and gloom about it isnt the way forward. Yes i agree it is important to let people know that it isnt all wall to wall sunshine, and there is a lot of heartache and the rules and regulations are completely different. But if poeple want to go to spain and try it out for themselves then they wont stop untill they have done it. We have bad unemployment in england, also debts rising, lots of crime, drug abuse, and thats to name a few, but its probably the way of life here, why people want to move to spain and such alike places, as there is more respect for families and people in general i think. We are coming out in september this year of course im worried but you have to be positive and no one would get anywhere in life. We are one of the fortunate ones who will be able to rent out property out in england and rent in spain, and when we come back to england for breaks we will go to our mobile home. We will also survive off my husbands wages. We have worked hard to obtain all these things and want to retire to a more family orientated, sunnier climate and hopefully spain will be it.

karen angell


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Hello to everyone. When i come on here and read up on some of the threads, i feel quite depressed, but it hasnt put me off to come to spain. My situation is that my OH has a business in england, and he intends to keep it there, we have a mobile home on the coast which we bought last year, and we have a good life in england although the weather is horrid. The reasons we would want to come to spain are not to find work but to retire and we are only in our fortys. Life surely is for living and taking educated risks, and not to be so negative about the economic situation, yes we are aware that spain is going through its hardest time ever! and that there is no work for anyone, but being all doom and gloom about it isnt the way forward. Yes i agree it is important to let people know that it isnt all wall to wall sunshine, and there is a lot of heartache and the rules and regulations are completely different. But if poeple want to go to spain and try it out for themselves then they wont stop untill they have done it. We have bad unemployment in england, also debts rising, lots of crime, drug abuse, and thats to name a few, but its probably the way of life here, why people want to move to spain and such alike places, as there is more respect for families and people in general i think. We are coming out in september this year of course im worried but you have to be positive and no one would get anywhere in life. We are one of the fortunate ones who will be able to rent out property out in england and rent in spain, and when we come back to england for breaks we will go to our mobile home. We will also survive off my husbands wages. We have worked hard to obtain all these things and want to retire to a more family orientated, sunnier climate and hopefully spain will be it.
> 
> karen angell


you have an income from outside Spain, won't be looking for work here - so come, enjoy, & spend.........Spain needs it 

yes, Spain has many many positive points, which is why those of us who live here choose to

BUT that doesn't mean we aren't affected by the dreadful things happening here - some of us are more directly affected than others - those of us who work here, have children in here etc., and even those who have an income of whatever kind from outside Spain would have to be living in a bubble to not be affected in some way


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## MaxTucker (Mar 1, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> you have an income from outside Spain, won't be looking for work here - so come, enjoy, & spend.........Spain needs it
> 
> yes, Spain has many many positive points, which is why those of us who live here choose to
> 
> BUT that doesn't mean we aren't affected by the dreadful things happening here - some of us are more directly affected than others - those of us who work here, have children in here etc., and even those who have an income of whatever kind from outside Spain would have to be living in a bubble to not be affected in some way


Thanks for the thread and response, I was going to ask the exact same thing. I have an online business but was worried about the economic situation in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Are the five million plusSpaniards looking for work cheerful, I wonder?

As many of us have pointed out before, negativity and truth are entirely different concepts.

As has been said, you won't be looking for work. You have a mobile home to live in. 

Totally different situation to people with families, no job, not much money, no Spanish.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaxTucker said:


> Thanks for the thread and response, I was going to ask the exact same thing. I have an online business but was worried about the economic situation in Spain.


If you have an online business and are making enough money to live the lifestyle that suits you in Spain, I can't see a problem.

We are all different in our expectations, something that must be taken into account when considering a move. Most people want the same standard of living - same quality house, same or more dispoable income and so on - when they move to another country. 

We had a good lifestyle in the UK with a detached cottage in a quiet area. So when we left the UK we wanted at least the same kind of living arrangements. There are some countries or regions of some countries where that would be for us simply unaffordable - the Perigord or Tuscany, for example.

You need to come and see for yourself because what people often forget is that they are not only exporting themselves, as it were, but a already-existing lifestyle and the expectations that go with it.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi Karen, :wave:


karenangell said:


> yes we are aware that spain is going through its hardest time ever!


Those who survived the Civil War and the worst of the Franco years would probably say those years were Spain's hardest time ever.
But yes, Spain is going through a _very_ hard time, and things will get worse long before they get better.

As xabiachica says, even for those of us who work here, or those who have means to support ourselves do not exist in a bubble.
It is hard not to feel depressed at times living here, when, for instance, there is no rubbish collection for days or potholes in the roads are not filled in (and your car tyres or exhaust get nuked for the umpteenth time), or worse, the road falls away, because there is no money to pay for any of this. 
When local businesses are forced to shut down - businesses you have used on a regular basis. When you see schoolchildren waiting for a school bus which may or may not appear depending on whether the council have paid for it for that day.
When the amount of beggars knocking on your door has quadrupled in the last year, when there are even more abandoned dogs roaming the streets because their owners cannot afford to keep them (or have moved back to the UK)....

I could go on, but I wont. 

Yes, Spain is a lovely country and mostly sunny. On the whole, the people here are friendly. And I would say that Spain is definitely more family oriented.
You will have income coming in from the UK, so that's good (you will need to sort out your taxes and residencia of course).

I wish you luck in your move to Spain and hope you enjoy life here.

But please don't expect to find a truly idyllic 'place in the sun' here.
That never really existed anyway.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

MaxTucker said:


> Thanks for the thread and response, I was going to ask the exact same thing. I have an online business but was worried about the economic situation in Spain.


It very much depends what type of online business you run.
I do everything from website building and design to copywriting and affiliate sales. Nearly all of my customers are from the US or UK and I get paid by cheque or Paypal.

Payment by cheque can be a problem with bank charges as well as exchange rates, so you need to set up an agreement with your local bank manager (they can usually give you a lower rate for more cheques).

Spanish banks are obliged to report large amounts coming into an account so you will have to be legal (not saying you wouldn't be - just giving a warning).
To be legal living here, you will need to sign on as autonomo and make monthly payments, you may also wish to set yourself up as a Limited Liability Company, depending on the size of your business. But you would definitely need to take legal advice about this, as it may be worth your while to do this in the UK instead.

Hope that helps a little bit


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

many tnaks for the replys. I am not under any illusion that spain is going to be the perect dream, but obviously I will take into consideration what ive read, I believe life is what you make it. If we go to spain and after a year or two think its not for us then we havnt lost anything, just gained the fact that we tried it, rather than looking back on that particular episode in our life and saying what if?? Anyway we will see what spain brings for us.

thanks to all


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

karenangell said:


> many tnaks for the replys. I am not under any illusion that spain is going to be the perect dream, but obviously I will take into consideration what ive read, I believe life is what you make it. If we go to spain and after a year or two think its not for us then we havnt lost anything, just gained the fact that we tried it, rather than looking back on that particular episode in our life and saying what if?? Anyway we will see what spain brings for us.
> 
> thanks to all


The fact is, though, Karen, that life isn't always 'what you make it'. If only it were....Some people have come to Spain, worked hard only to lose everything through no fault of their own.

You are right, life in the UK isn't a bed of roses. But unemployment in the UK is still under 9%. Spain's official figures released today put unemployment at 23%. In some areas, such as Malaga Province, one in every three people are jobless.
There is no extensive welfare safety net for those who fall on hard times in Spain, unlike the UK.

'Sur in English', a paper which caters for British immigrants, ran a feature on Brits who were forced to return to the UK because they had lost their jobs or their businesses had failed and they couldn't survive any longer in Spain. 

Out of interest I had a look at the 'Situations Vacant' columns. The majority of positions on offer were commission-only telesales or for 'closers'. They all required fluent Spanish, some requiring another language, usually Dutch or German or even Russian in addition. There were several ads for girls for saunas, 'high-class escorts' and the likes...no specific language required for that line of work, other attributes needed....I could find fewer than five ads for 'proper' jobs and those required Spanish, IT-literacy and experience. No doubt hundreds if not thousands of applications will go for those jobs.

The OECD has stated that Spain's economy is about to go into recession and that this crisis will take fifteen years to work its way through and out of the economy.

In your case you won't be looking for work. You have a UK income and a place to go back to. That is entirely different from a family with no profession, no trade, no Spanish, a young family....

No matter how hard you try to make a good life, the sad fact is that no-one can live isolated from society and the economy they live and work in. The best-laid plans of mice and men gan' oft 'a'wry', as the Scottish poet said.

Spain has more than its fair share of drug and crime problems, sadly. The current economic climate has seen an alarming rise in the number of street muggings and house break-ins..


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> There were several ads for girls for saunas, 'high-class escorts' and the likes...no specific language required for that line of work, other attributes needed....


Female 'webcam workers' from Spain are welcomed.
But you need a fast internet connection.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Female 'webcam workers' from Spain are welcomed.
> But you need a fast internet connection.




Err....I seem to have led a sheltered life, although I like to see myself as worldly-wise....

But I am at a loss as to what exactly 'female web-cam workers' line of work consists of...

I have a feeling though that Forum rules of decency/family-friendliness and so on will preclude a detailed reply.....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Err....I seem to have led a sheltered life, although I like to see myself as worldly-wise....
> 
> But I am at a loss as to what exactly 'female web-cam workers' line of work consists of...
> 
> I have a feeling though that Forum rules of decency/family-friendliness and so on will preclude a detailed reply.....


you'd be right..............................


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> you'd be right..............................


I've slapped my hand accordingly. 

But back on topic....

Karen, I really do wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Just remember, however hard it gets to manage your finances while in Spain, _do not be tempted to give up your assets in the UK_.
Then you should be ok.


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

karenangell said:


> Hello to everyone. When i come on here and read up on some of the threads, i feel quite depressed, but it hasnt put me off to come to spain. My situation is that my OH has a business in england, and he intends to keep it there, we have a mobile home on the coast which we bought last year, and we have a good life in england although the weather is horrid. The reasons we would want to come to spain are not to find work but to retire and we are only in our fortys. Life surely is for living and taking educated risks, and not to be so negative about the economic situation, yes we are aware that spain is going through its hardest time ever! and that there is no work for anyone, but being all doom and gloom about it isnt the way forward. Yes i agree it is important to let people know that it isnt all wall to wall sunshine, and there is a lot of heartache and the rules and regulations are completely different. But if poeple want to go to spain and try it out for themselves then they wont stop untill they have done it. We have bad unemployment in england, also debts rising, lots of crime, drug abuse, and thats to name a few, but its probably the way of life here, why people want to move to spain and such alike places, as there is more respect for families and people in general i think. We are coming out in september this year of course im worried but you have to be positive and no one would get anywhere in life. We are one of the fortunate ones who will be able to rent out property out in england and rent in spain, and when we come back to england for breaks we will go to our mobile home. We will also survive off my husbands wages. We have worked hard to obtain all these things and want to retire to a more family orientated, sunnier climate and hopefully spain will be it.
> 
> karen angell



Hi Karen, 

Try not to get too depressed when you read this forum it is easily done. A lot of people on this site do go to great lengths to outline how bad the situation is in Spain. Don’t get me wrong the statistics don’t lie, Spain has the highest unemployment in the EU and anyone moving out should be well aware of how difficult it could be to find work. 

With the set up you have though you can certainly make a very good life in Spain. I moved out last year and have a similar set up to your husband as I have a UK ltd business which I can run from Spain so my income hasn’t dropped. I have kept my properties in the UK which are all tenanted and have no intention to sell them. As someone pointed out earlier I would recommend holding your UK assets as I do think the UK will bounce back from this recession a lot quicker than Spain. 

All I really wanted to say was although you wouldn’t believe it sometimes reading this forum there are people that have moved to Spain in the last couple of years and are making it work. 

If you are not reliant on the local economy then you can still have an excellent standard of living in Spain. In my experience the cost of living is lower here than the UK, although I did live in the SE of England which is always going to be more expensive. There are many threads on here that contest that Spain is cheaper to live, but certainly that is my opinion which is all I can give. 

I wish you luck if you do decide to make the move and try not to be put off by the negative comments


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

minty75 said:


> If you are not reliant on the local economy then you can still have an excellent standard of living in Spain. In my experience the cost of living is lower here than the UK, although I did live in the SE of England which is always going to be more expensive. There are many threads on here that contest that Spain is cheaper to live, but certainly that is my opinion which is all I can give.


I agree, Minty, and sad to say the dire economic situation in Spain is actually making it even cheaper (apart from fuel and electricity which are now on a par with the UK). Rents and house prices have gone down considerably since 2008. Now there are tradesmen willing to work for 5 or 10 euros an hour, anti-crisis menus everywhere, stuff going at giveaway prices on the second-hand websites and discount retail outlets ... We certainly couldn't maintain our current standard of living in the UK. 

Go for it, Karen. You've got your eyes wide open and your head screwed on the right way (sorry about the rather strange image that conjures up!)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> Hi Karen,
> 
> Try not to get too depressed when you read this forum it is easily done. A lot of people on this site do go to great lengths to outline how bad the situation is in Spain. Don’t get me wrong the statistics don’t lie, Spain has the highest unemployment in the EU and anyone moving out should be well aware of how difficult it could be to find work.
> 
> ...



But negative comments and telling the truth aren't the same,though are they?....and with the greatest respect..you are missing the point.

I don't think there is a single poster on this forum who hasn't said ;''Young and single, income already assured, no problems, go for it'.

But ,...would you describe telling the non-Spanish-speaking, non-professional, no trades or skilled person with little money and a young family to 'go for it' and come to Spain at this time as sensible advice?

Of course there are people who have moved to Spain and made it work...I did!! But I wasn't looking for work and had a good income from UK investments..

You say you have a UK business and tenanted properties...of course you'll have no problems. But your position - and mine - is totally different from the kind of wannabe immigrant I've described.

And that is the point we are making, that's all.


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## minty75 (May 10, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> But negative comments and telling the truth aren't the same,though are they?....and with the greatest respect..you are missing the point.
> 
> I don't think there is a single poster on this forum who hasn't said ;''Young and single, income already assured, no problems, go for it'.
> 
> ...



I know we have had this argument before mrypg9 and I don’t think our views differ although we seem to end up back arguing! I was simply answering Karen who said that she found this forum depressing when she reads it. I can understand that and I don’t come on here as often as I used to as sometimes there is just nothing positive to read on here. From what she has said her husband has an income from the UK and they intend to rent their UK property when they move to Spain. As this is similar to my situation I gave advice and my point of view. I do think that sometimes when you read this forum all that comes out is very negative, and I fully understand the reasons for that. Sometimes just to balance that argument I don’t think it hurts to say that some people have moved in the last couple of years, are making it work and potentially in the right circumstances moving to Spain can be a positive experience. I am by no means saying to all and sundry they should just move with no work, no Spanish skills etc.. Just in the right circumstances (which potentially Karen’s sounds like it might be), that the move to Spain can be positive.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

minty75 said:


> I know we have had this argument before mrypg9 and I don’t think our views differ although we seem to end up back arguing! I was simply answering Karen who said that she found this forum depressing when she reads it. I can understand that and I don’t come on here as often as I used to as sometimes there is just nothing positive to read on here. From what she has said her husband has an income from the UK and they intend to rent their UK property when they move to Spain. As this is similar to my situation I gave advice and my point of view. I do think that sometimes when you read this forum all that comes out is very negative, and I fully understand the reasons for that. Sometimes just to balance that argument I don’t think it hurts to say that some people have moved in the last couple of years, are making it work and potentially in the right circumstances moving to Spain can be a positive experience. I am by no means saying to all and sundry they should just move with no work, no Spanish skills etc.. Just in the right circumstances (which potentially Karen’s sounds like it might be), that the move to Spain can be positive.


Yes, I agree - and yes we do agree in essentials. And I've said to some posters that they will have no problems enjoying a good life in Spain. But it all depends on your circumstances.

Like you we had UK businesses...we left them in the hands of our General Manager and Finance Director when we moved from the UK to Prague in 2005.
Like you we had properties in the UK and overseas which we rented out.
After a year abroad we decided to sell everything. 
We moved to Spain at the very end of 2008 and were able to move into family property here while we looked for a place to live. Although we weren't then of retirement age - my OH isn't yet....we decided we had enough to live on. I had a basic knowledge of Spanish and Spain from spending summers at a friend's finca in Ibiza.

If I had asked for advice about moving to Spain, I'm sure no-one would have told me to stay in Prague! Totally different situation from that of many who post here asking for advice, though.

The sad fact is that for far too many people in Spain, life is depressing. Some people on this forum who've been here for years are finding life tough at the moment. You cannot fail to be depressed when you read that there are five million unemployed Spaniards and that Spain is slipping into certain recession in the next quarter. It's a fact that crime is on the increase and that drugs are a serious problem. I don't know how close you are to your local Spanish community but through voluntary work, political affiliation and friendship we are fairly closely involved with ours...and believe me, an awful lot of Spanish people see no light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

We enjoy life here so much that we have decided to make this our permanent home and not move on to France for a few years, as planned. But currently we have no money worries, although who knows what the future may bring....We are reasonably healthy and have a good lifestyle.

But the fact remains that what you, I and most posters on this forum have managed to achieve and no doubt Karen will achieve will not be easily attainable for others. And it would be quite wrong and cruel to mislead people who frankly wouldn't have a snowball's chance of getting a job to Come on over..jobs are like oranges, falling at your feet.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)




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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jimenato said:


>


Yes....I was just as surprised to hear of the epidemic myself.


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh i see thank you for that, i didnt realise that in the south the town of nerja where we are thinking of relocating to was very bad. Its just that we have always wanted to see what its like to live in spain, we own our property in england outright bought it five years ago, we live in witham essex. We have a good life here, but as probably most say, i hate the british weather in one day we can have the weather of all seasons, probably more than one day like A WEEK! lol. So it would be nice to use outdoor space, much more than we use our garden, at the mo, its like three months of the whole twelve months, if that. I am hoping we can make our own assumptions when we are out in spain, as we have told our family and friends that if we dont like it after a year, we probably wont like after that period, and one thing to say is that we have to try, if we dont we will always nag ourselves that we didnt try. We have a five year old son also to consider, am hoping he will fit in and maybe learn spanish for a year, even if things didnt work out

thanks for the feedback


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

When we emmigrated to Canada we found that the first 6 months were 'the Honeymoon period'....... Everything was wonderful, we hadn't quite intergrated so everything was new and fresh, then after 6 months you start to realize that politics are the same, people have the same issues, concerns etc as they do at home.
Most people who are going to leave within the year, we decided to give it 3 yrs and if after 3 we weren't settled we would return. If we had decided on a 'give it 1 year' we more than likely would have come home..

Well it's now been 20 years, we've worked hard had our own business and have decided that we no longer want to be in Canada. A 6 week trip to Spain & Portugal last fall was the clincher, we fell in love with Spain and have decided that this is where we plan to retire to. We're planning another visit this fall and are going to concentrate our search in the Costa Blanca area Altea - Denia and the surrounding areas.

We realize that it's probably not the best of times, but we don't need to look for work so would be spending money in the community!

Our concerns given the current economic climate and outlook are what is the crime rate like, are there more home break ins, do people feel safe in their homes, is there building resentment towards expats or just those that they perceive as 'taking jobs from the locals' ?


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## MaxTucker (Mar 1, 2012)

I think a lot of people are worried about a extended recession or even a depression. If you settle in Spain and things get so bad the country falls into a depression you could be in for some trouble. I mean none of us want to be in a country that is suffering so bad people are starving and killing each other for food. Honestly the chances of a full blow depression are slim but I can understand the worry.

At the risk of sounding like some nutter I would suggest always having a escape plan. The idea is the be sure you can pick up and leave back to the UK within a few weeks if the s***t hits the fan.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaxTucker said:


> I think a lot of people are worried about a extended recession or even a depression. If you settle in Spain and things get so bad the country falls into a depression you could be in for some trouble. I mean none of us want to be in a country that is suffering so bad people are starving and killing each other for food. Honestly the chances of a full blow depression are slim but I can understand the worry.
> 
> *At the risk of sounding like some nutter I would suggest always having a escape plan. The idea is the be sure you can pick up and leave back to the UK within a few weeks if the s***t hits the fan.*


that isn't sounding like a nutter - it's what a lot of us have been saying here for a while


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

Just my 2 cents.

We've been here for three years now. At first you have the honeymoon period like Goldeneye said. Everything is great, weather is fantastic, 20º in march yay! We've been living on an internet income and did not have to pay any rent or mortgage, so we were not affected by the bad economy at all. We just worked from home with a grand view on the Med.

When we came down here a liter petrol was just over one Euro and everything was cheaper - live was great. So now we're three years down the line and petrol is up to 1.50 EUR. Our income dried up a bit so I had to look for work. Well ... there is nothing. I am fluent in English and German with basic Spanish and French. I can understand and communicate in Dutch. I have extensive Internet and PC knowledge and experience (server/client (windows & linux), support, webdesign etc.). I have worked for years in catering so come with experience as a chef, waiter and catering management. You would think, I should be able to find a job of some kind, at the end of the day I am willing to do ANYTHING for whatever pay. After sending out lots of CVs and talking to people and businesses in the area I just gave up. There is nothing, not even temp work on the black.

So now we will be returning to the UK in the summer (partly cause of family reasons). There are hundrets of jobs suitable for me. And the weather? Seriously who cares! After a while you realise that every day life is just the same. In the hot summer we were sitting inside with the aircon on and the nice spring and autumn we could hardly enjoy cause of work. We have a grand view on the Med, but after three years I rarely look out on it and don't even notice it anymore.

We are looking forward to move back to the UK. So many things we missed in the last years. From small to big things I could make a loooong list, starting at the great choice in UK supermarkets and ending somewhere along the lines of how fantastic the UK Directgov website is. Little things like paying a certain bill can be a massive task in Spain, registering your car is a big process etc. You don't realise the differences until you experience them.

So do I hate or dislike Spain? Not at all, it was a great experience for us and there is a good chance we will return to live (at least for a while) here again in the future.

So a quick note to the OP: go for it and enjoy it! You are in the position to make it work. People with income from another country or decent pensions are having a good time here. Come and live here, spend money and help the local economy to get back on its feet. Don't worry too much about the economy right now, the impact on you will be noticeable, but not as bad as it would affect people who need to work in Spain. In the long term you will find out if life in Spain is for you or not! On this forum there are many positive examples of how it can work out.

The fun ends, when people with children and small financial means want to make the move. There is NO way anyone should encourage this. There is no work, there is even less official work that pays social security. You are not fluent in Spanish? Forget it, even simple shop assitent and waiting jobs are asking for people with fluent Spanish and at least TWO more european languages (more of advantage) and believe me, people are running in their doors to get a chance for one of those jobs. You are happy to do anything? Well I hope you are happy to do it for 2.50-3.00 EUR an hour (UK minimum wage is around 7.50 EUR btw) without social security and 12 hours a day as well 

Enough rambling from me, so I quickly sum it up: Life in Spain can be great and the weather is good (most of the time). But if you don't have an income from outside it is a hard and rough life. If you have lots of money living in Spain can be VERY comfortable, if you don't - you are in for a rough ride.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Seb* said:


> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> We've been here for three years now. At first you have the honeymoon period like Goldeneye said. Everything is great, weather is fantastic, 20º in march yay! We've been living on an internet income and did not have to pay any rent or mortgage, so we were not affected by the bad economy at all. We just worked from home with a grand view on the Med.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting a true to life account, highlighting the ups and downs that immigrants can expect in Spain, chiefly the south of Spain, at this point in time.

Hope you enjoy your time back in the UK.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Seb* said:


> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> 
> .
> ...


Excellent post, Seb. Tells it like it is and how most of us have been telling it.

Max....yes, there has been a significant increase in muggings and breakins, certainly around the area where I live which is viewed as a fairly affluent one although we're not all wealthy.

We had a breakin before Christmas but it was 90% down to our stupidity in not closing the house up or setting the alarm when we took the dog out for a short walk - we actually disturbed the thieves who fled in their car, pursued by 54 kilos of enraged Rhodesian Ridgeback...

There is as I've said before a lot of anti-immigrant and anti-development graffiti ariound our village which usually proclaims that 'immigrants take our jobs and we get the dole' or similar.

But that's just where I live and I've no idea if it's common in other areas. But I've seen and heard that kind of sentiment in the UK so why should we be surprised to find it in Spain when unemployment is almost threre times that of the UK?


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## MaxTucker (Mar 1, 2012)

Seb* said:


> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> We've been here for three years now. At first you have the honeymoon period like Goldeneye said. Everything is great, weather is fantastic, 20º in march yay! We've been living on an internet income and did not have to pay any rent or mortgage, so we were not affected by the bad economy at all. We just worked from home with a grand view on the Med.
> 
> When we came down here a liter petrol was just over one Euro and everything was cheaper - live was great. So now we're three years down the line and petrol is up to 1.50 EUR. Our income dried up a bit so I had to look for work.


Great post! Sorry to hear business is slow. I am somewhat surprised since I have many friends in web design who are absolutely thriving right now. I dabble in web design too and I haven't seen this many jobs available for a long time.

I think the best thing about Spain for self-employed people is how much further your money stretches. In Edinburgh I pay £750 rent per month for a very small 2 bed apartment just outside the city centre. For the same amount in Spain I get a beautiful 3 bed villa, with a pool, by the beach. I live reasonably well in the UK but in Spain I can live like a king.

So if your self-employed and you want to upgrade your lifestyle Spain aint a bad choice from what I can tell.

As I said earlier though, have an escape plan. When stuff goes bad, you need to be able to drop everything and get back to the UK in 1-2 weeks or less. You don't want to be a foreigner in a country that sinks in to depression and has a 40% unemployment rate.... if that happens foreigners become targets.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

MaxTucker said:


> Great post! Sorry to hear business is slow. I am somewhat surprised since I have many friends in web design who are absolutely thriving right now. I dabble in web design too and I haven't seen this many jobs available for a long time.
> 
> I think the best thing about Spain for self-employed people is how much further your money stretches. In Edinburgh I pay £750 rent per month for a very small 2 bed apartment just outside the city centre. For the same amount in Spain I get a beautiful 3 bed villa, with a pool, by the beach. I live reasonably well in the UK but in Spain I can live like a king.
> 
> ...


I dabble in web design too, and any other online work that will help pay the bills. Things were great when I started out. Loads of hard work paid off and the money began to roll in.
Then the internet went down... for days at a time. And eventually it spluttered to an almost permanent dial up speed.
I have online websites I can't reach to update (some could be hacked for all I know), clients I cannot help because I cannot upload designs for them,. The only work I can do right now is copywriting, as it doesn't involve uploading graphics. But getting new customers relies on up to date website promotion and that is impossible. 

We have no other viable internet provider here apart from Telefonica (and expensive satelite companies who have restrictive user limits). I am missing opportunities every damn day. :frusty:
Anyone coming out here and thinking they will be ok working online must check (and double check) that the internet service they can receive in their area will be sufficient.
If you choose to live some distance away from major cities, you may well have a problem.

I see a few people mentioning pensioners as being ok during this poor economic climate, and I guess that if they have a number of reasonable pensions between them I would say they would be.
But my husband is a pensioner with state and a couple of other small pensions and we could not survive here on his money alone.
We are not big spenders by any means, but utility bills and diesel have gone up in price so much and the price of basic foodstuffs has also risen (and for a long time the exchange rate went down and down...) that we have been left in the position of hoping that we have enough money coming in to pay the bills each month.
And sometimes (especially if I'm still waiting for an online employer to pay me) there isn't enough.

And the reason I say 'please don't get rid of your UK assets however hard things get out here', is because we did just that.
Stupid, I know. But we truly believed we would be staying here for the rest of our lives. Now I'm not so sure.

Now I see posts like yours above, saying...
'At the risk of sounding like some nutter I would suggest always having a escape plan. The idea is the be sure you can pick up and leave back to the UK within a few weeks if the s***t hits the fan'.

I used to teach history (among other subjects) and sadly, history does repeat itself, not in exactly the same ways, but with similar warning signs.
And with that in mind, I don't think you sound like a nutter at all.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> .
> 
> I see a few people mentioning pensioners as being ok during this poor economic climate, and I guess that if they have a number of reasonable pensions between them I would say they would be.
> But my husband is a pensioner with state and a couple of other small pensions and we could not survive here on his money alone.
> ...


*We decided to get rid of all our property as we were 100% sure we'd never go back to the UK.....We rent a fairly expensive property as we know we can always downsize if times get hard and the money runs out - although my son and dil have a house we would live in for a very low rent if we were really strapped for cash. Sometimes I feel a bit insecure -when you've owned bricks and mortar -or in our case flint and chalk! - all your adult life it does seem strange not owning property. But then I think of the maintenance bills.

The obvious solution is for those of us who enjoy a good political discussion to club together and rent a decaying palazzo....:*D


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