# Tricky Landlord



## mikeinmalaga (May 17, 2010)

I have a tale to tell, my Spanish is not very good, and I have been ripped off.

When I left my flat the rent was up to date but the landlord retained my deposit. 
He was not there when I moved out, and later said things were damaged and the place was not clean. Which is rubbish.
He will not answer my calls, and he has my post as well.

I don't get mad, I get even.
While I was living there he converted the garage into a dwelling. 
Does anyone know the correct procedure for Planning Consent and Building Regulations in Spain?
Where can I find this out? in English please.
Then I can check it out, and, if it does not comply, tell the Local Authority.

Thanks for your help
If you think I am being mean, that is your privilege.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its becoming apparent to me that the golden rule is NEVER PAY YOUR LAST MONTHS RENT! It seems very rare for anyone to get their deposits back! (I've lived in three properties and never have)

I see where your revenge is coming from, but it maybe far better to simply send your ex landlord some kind of warning/threat that you may let it slip to the authorities (go to the ayuntamiento??) about his "dwelling" ??? Altho it may not do any good?? Its also worth noting that he probably wasnt paying the correct tax on the rent he received from you (very few do)! But personally I wouldnt hold out much hope. Its one of those situations where you may have to simply walk away and forget it! IMO, and its not fair but we're the foreigners and we simply dont have the clout or experience to take the Spanish on

Jo xxx


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

mikeinmalaga said:


> I have a tale to tell, my Spanish is not very good, and I have been ripped off.
> 
> When I left my flat the rent was up to date but the landlord retained my deposit.
> He was not there when I moved out, and later said things were damaged and the place was not clean. Which is rubbish.
> ...



I would forget about the garage, just sounds like too much trouble anyways. 
But you must have a copy of the rental agreement and an inventory, right? If so, see what furninture or appliances he claims were damaged and if nothing was damaged and you had sent personnel to clean the apartament from top to bottom, then it is your legal right to get the the entire deposit amount back.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Its a waste of time!
When my daughter was at Uni 6 girls lived in a house. They looked after it. The land lord had taken one months deposit off all of them at the start.

When the time was up, the landlord would not speak to anyone about the deposits saying he was using it towards the damages (that werent there). Thats in the UK .... you've got little realisting chance here

Stupidly, that landlord in the UK had not collected the last months rent off me, so I was OK, and he never chased me for it. The others werent so lucky.


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## isaactabor (Jan 9, 2011)

I would get even too. Wouldnt stand for that crap. I agree its best to send out a warning first. In my experience, threatening to contact the proper authorities gets you a long way.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

You could try speaking with the architect / planning dept at your local Town Hall, and then make a Denuncia if it transpired that the correct planning laws were not adhered to. However, I suspect that this would just draw a blank and the information would not be forthcoming.
As far as 'getting even' is concerned I think you may have more luck through the terms of your contract. If you did have a legally binding contract (in both langauges) then I am certain that he would be in breach of this contract. If you DIDN'T have a contract here then I am sure that the Tax Authorities and Town Hall would be interested to hear of this...
You may even be able to assert that You were made to leave the property without sufficient notice etc... perhaps OMIC (who have an office in most larger Towns) would be able to advise you further.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its becoming apparent to me that the golden rule is NEVER PAY YOUR LAST MONTHS RENT! It seems very rare for anyone to get their deposits back! (I've lived in three properties and never have)
> 
> Jo xxx


Absolutely correct. That's what I did when I left my last place and it's what I'll do when I leave here. Incidentally my last landlord (Spanish) was quite happy with that.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

There are two sides to the rental situation. Some people who were renting an acqaintance's property left leaving a load of debts and even returned after the rental period had expired and took out a barbecue which they had installed in lieu of a month's rent.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Beachcomber said:


> There are two sides to the rental situation. Some people who were renting an acqaintance's property left leaving a load of debts and even returned after the rental period had expired and took out a barbecue which they had installed in lieu of a month's rent.


As someone who has been both landlord and recently tenant I can agree with that...
However...I have to say that our experience- as renters -of landlords are that they are a bunch of crooked b******s.
One of our tenants intercepted my mail, stole a credit card and PIN that had been sent erroneously to that address and obtained £5000 from cash machines with it.
But we have been ripped off in Prague and here by unscrupulous landlords.
Our current landlord, an Austrian massage parlour and brothel owner, is great. The kind of landlord we were. So we in turn are excellent tenants......

I should point out we were NOT brothel or massage parlour owners. Sadly, as we could have been rich had we been..


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> As someone who has been both landlord and recently tenant I can agree with that...
> However...I have to say that our experience- as renters -of landlords are that they are a bunch of crooked b******s.
> One of our tenants intercepted my mail, stole a credit card and PIN that had been sent erroneously to that address and obtained £5000 from cash machines with it.
> But we have been ripped off in Prague and here by unscrupulous landlords.
> ...


Never too late to start a new venture ...

There are good people and bad people, in property renting just like everything else. But generaly, and I realise there are exceptions, the landlord is the one with the power and can do far more harm to the tenants than vice versa. It´s not an equal balance.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Never too late to start a new venture ...
> 
> There are good people and bad people, in property renting just like everything else. But generaly, and I realise there are exceptions, the landlord is the one with the power and can do far more harm to the tenants than vice versa. It´s not an equal balance.


That depends on the kind of landlord, i.e. whether the landlord is a large property owner/developer or someone with one property, formerly their home, which they are compelled to rent out of necessity - to work abroad, for example.
In the UK the latter category of landlord is at a disadvantage and tenants can do more harm than the landlord, much more.
It is extremely difficult to evict unsatisfactory tenants from your property and almost impossible to recover compensation for damages to what may well have been your home.
Whilst it is right that tenants should be protected from unfair treatment by unscrupulous landlords a decent, fair-minded landlord can be given a very rough time indeed by unsatisfactory tenants.
We owned a cottage in a lovely old street where everyone got along in a neighbourly fashion until one of the properties was sold to a landlord who decided to rent it out. The whole character of the neighbourhood changed as these anti-social ***** had frequent wild parties usually ending in violence and the police in attendance,, littered the garden with dog excrementos to the point where it was a public health hazard, chucked rubbish and empty bottles everywhere and were generally a royal pita.
When they were evicted, the damage to the property cost over £5k to put right....
I'm afraid there are far too many cases like that in the UK and Spain.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That depends on the kind of landlord, i.e. whether the landlord is a large property owner/developer or someone with one property, formerly their home, which they are compelled to rent out of necessity - to work abroad, for example.
> In the UK the latter category of landlord is at a disadvantage and tenants can do more harm than the landlord, much more.
> It is extremely difficult to evict unsatisfactory tenants from your property and almost impossible to recover compensation for damages to what may well have been your home.
> Whilst it is right that tenants should be protected from unfair treatment by unscrupulous landlords a decent, fair-minded landlord can be given a very rough time indeed by unsatisfactory tenants.
> ...


Sure, but the landlord is by definition a property owner and has a choice whether to let it out or not. The tenant generally has no choice and has to take what he/she can get. For every badly behaved tenant I bet there are fifty greedy irresponsible landlords (which is why the legislation was introduced in the first place).


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Sure, but the landlord is by definition a property owner and has a choice whether to let it out or not. The tenant generally has no choice and has to take what he/she can get. For every badly behaved tenant I bet there are fifty greedy irresponsible landlords (which is why the legislation was introduced in the first place).


Well, no, property owners don't always have a choice as to whether they rent or not. Circumstances often oblige them to do so, often unwillingly.
Some landlords buy with the intention of renting - what's wrong with that? They are providing a needed service. We should move away from the myth that landlords/businessowners/bankers are all greedy, unscrupulous villains intent only on grinding the faces of the poor -tenants, employees, the comparatively less well-off - as it may just possibly have been true up to a couple of decades ago but certainly isn't now.
I just can't buy into that wicked landlord etc. scenario any more although I did once and for good reason - then.
Our own experience of renting property and owning businesses is the other way round! By being fair -which to us is just being normal - we could have been the architects of our own misfortune...luckily we were not.
We have had more than enough personal experience of malingering, thieving and downright taking the p*** employees and unsatisfactory tenants and if it weren't for the fact that I also know of and as a Councillor have dealt with equally 'orrible landlords and employers I would support a change in the law to make it possible to evict tenants and sack useless employees on the spot!
We have friends who rent out property in the UK and Spain and whilst they are without exception correct in their responsibilities to their tenants, they all have horror stories to tell.
Our current landlord has been renting this house for over a decade and we are the first tenants to pay the rent regularly....we actually pay six months' lump sum in advance as it saves fiddling about making an international cash transfer each month.
He was overjoyed when we said we would like to stay in the house for a few more years.
But as I said earlier, our landlord in Prague was a greedy individual who owned two large houses, each of which he rented for the equivalent of more than a Czech's annual salary and on which he paid no tax. He and his family lived in a beautiful eighteenth century apartment in the centre of Prague owned by Prague Council. Our first landlady in Prague, now a friend, is currently trying to evict non-paying tenants.
Our first' landlord' here was a crooked Latina woman and her partner who ripped us off in various ways and who we suspect was renting without the owner's knowledge. When we got wise and moved out half-way through the contractual period they smashed the window of our LandRover.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, no, property owners don't always have a choice as to whether they rent or not. Circumstances often oblige them to do so, often unwillingly.
> Some landlords buy with the intention of renting - what's wrong with that? They are providing a needed service. We should move away from the myth that landlords/businessowners/bankers are all greedy, unscrupulous villains intent only on grinding the faces of the poor -tenants, employees, the comparatively less well-off - as it may just possibly have been true up to a couple of decades ago but certainly isn't now.
> I just can't buy into that wicked landlord etc. scenario any more although I did once and for good reason - then.
> Our own experience of renting property and owning businesses is the other way round! By being fair -which to us is just being normal - we could have been the architects of our own misfortune...luckily we were not.
> ...


I think you are taking a rather narrow view, based on the experience of yourselves and your friends! The wider picture in the UK is much nastier, and getting worse under the ConDem regime. As I said, property owners generally have much more choice and control over their lives than people dependent on the private rental sector.

A recent survey carried out by Shelter with the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health reveals that:

9 out of 10 environmental health officers working with tenants have encountered landlords engaging in harassment or illegal eviction.
78% had dealt with landlords who persistently refuse to maintain their property in a safe condition.
More than 90% had encountered cases of severe damp, mould, electrical or fire safety hazard in properties they investigated in the last year.

Even the Citizens' Advice Bureau estimate that a million people are living in fear of eviction.
One million in poor rented housing ?live with eviction fear?, says CAB

The situation in Spain is somewhat better because of a long history of state-provided rent-to-buy properties (VPOs). This always seemed like a good option to me; the Ayuntamiento can make sure this subsidised housing goes to local people on low incomes, who can't then sell the property for 20 years or more. Over 80% of the Spanish are owner-occupiers (under 70% in the UK).


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

I have been both Tenant and Landlord in both Spain and the UK. In my opinion you get good and bad in both - some are honest and honourable, respectful of property and abiding by agreements spoken or writen - and some will try it on and take the piss regardless. And that goes for both parties. Easier said than done, I know - especially with the benefit of hindsight, but I find it best to trust my instincts and to try and keep everything above board wherever and whenever possible.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

djfwells said:


> I have been both Tenant and Landlord in both Spain and the UK. In my opinion you get good and bad in both - some are honest and honourable, respectful of property and abiding by agreements spoken or writen - and some will try it on and take the piss regardless. And that goes for both parties. Easier said than done, I know - especially with the benefit of hindsight, but I find it best to trust my instincts and to try and keep everything above board wherever and whenever possible.


Trusting one's instincts is not a course I would take......Far better to have properly drawn-up contracts and good references. Some people can put on a very good show.....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I think you are taking a rather narrow view, based on the experience of yourselves and your friends! The wider picture in the UK is much nastier, and getting worse under the ConDem regime. As I said, property owners generally have much more choice and control over their lives than people dependent on the private rental sector.
> 
> A recent survey carried out by Shelter with the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health reveals that:
> 
> ...


But you must admit that putting a cap on Housing Benefit is reasonable. The system is being abused. No way should any non-working person receive a subsidy of severa £k a month - paid for by working taxpayers on low wages.
Not that I've much time for this wretched Coalition.
Subsidising housing on a rent-to-buy basis makes sense too and the Housing Association of which I was a Director had a similar scheme in conjunction with the Local Authority.
I would treat those figures you give with just a little caution. Until we know the actual numbers, percentages can be misleading. It is true that many properties are in bad repair..often because the owner is unable to afford repairs. We also operated a scheme whereby our HA bought such properties from landlords.
A million living in fear of eviction...for what reason, though? It's very hard to evict a tenant without good cause and rightly so. We need to know more before making a meaningful comment. The figure sounds high and as a bald statement is a tad tendentious.
Shelter is an interest group and a very good one. My ex-husband was some years back Deputy Director of the Nat.Fed. of Housing Associations and we had many dealings with Shelter. They campaign hard for the rights of tenants and I support them.....but their function is to focus on one side only, that of the tenant.
Ex-hubby was also Housing Chair of a London Borough so we had first hand experience of evictions and harassment and it's scandalous that this still occurs, albeit on a smaller scale.
The big problem with the UK rental sector imo is that in social housing, the Right to Buy creamed off the best stock and the private sector is polarised between the top and lower ends of the market...no middle sector to speak of.
Main point is that it is unfair to demonise either landlord or tenant. We have had good and bad experiences both ways.
Personal experience is usually what colours people's opinions, don't you think? Wrongly sometimes, agreed.
But statistics can often tell you what you want to hear confirmed....


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

I have never been a tenant but I have a second property in Spain which is rented for holidays by the same groups of people who return year after year, but which stands empty for several weeks at a time, and a property in Dorset which is currently occupied rent free by an elderly family member. 

With the law so heavily biased in both countries in favour of the tenants there is no way in a million years I would accept long lets on either of them even if I was in desperate need of the money.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Beachcomber said:


> I have never been a tenant but I have a second property in Spain which is rented for holidays by the same groups of people who return year after year, but which stands empty for several weeks at a time, and a property in Dorset which is currently occupied rent free by an elderly family member.
> 
> With the law so heavily biased in both countries in favour of the tenants there is no way in a million years I would accept long lets on either of them even if I was in desperate need of the money.


My son and dil have property in Spain which they used to rent via an Agency. Their experiences were so horrendous that they stopped doing that and now allow only friends or colleagues to rent for short periods.
I take the previous point that I am perhaps judging from my narrow personal experience but sometimes that is a better guide to future decision-making than contemplation of abstracts...


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I am both a tenant and a landlord. 

As a landlord I feel very insecure and at the mercy of tenants who might not pay rent and trash the place. I've been lucky - it's never happened to me but it has most certainly happened to friends of mine. 

As a tenant I can not pay the rent if I so choose and I can trash the place and ****** off if I choose. 

I would rather be a tenant than a landlord any day. 

If I didn't have friends as agents looking after my house in the UK I wouldn't let it - the risks are just too great.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> I am both a tenant and a landlord.
> 
> As a landlord I feel very insecure and at the mercy of tenants who might not pay rent and trash the place. I've been lucky - it's never happened to me but it has most certainly happened to friends of mine.
> 
> ...


Even with agents you can run into problems. We rented our cottage on a short-term basis pending sale when we first left the UK and as we wouldn't be there to keep an eye on things we used a local agent.
The agent provided us with a tenant and assured us she had excellent references.
Not only did the agency not do the things they said they would -transfer utilities accounts, collect rent on time - it transpired that they knew that the tenant, a Polish thief, was dodgy, as they later admitted when the police were involved in the theft by her of my credit card.
I ended up paying water, gas and electricity bills for one quarter but declined to pay the remaining quarter's bills so I'm probably UK blacklisted.....
I've been both landlord and tenant and like you I know which I prefer of the two.


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