# Laws regarding dogs in Spain



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I posted on another thread about how my dog gave a 'telling' or warning to a delivery man who suddenly thrust his entire arm towards me through the bars of our gate. He did not bite the man and would not have done. He is well-trained and not aggressive by nature, far from it. But he is protective and territorial. The delivery man wasn't at all upset, in fact he asked about Azor's breed and said he was guapo.
I advised him in future not to stick any part of his anatomy through fences or gates where there are dogs of any size or breed. He accepted this common-sense piece of advice.

My question is this: what f he had actually bitten the guy? 

As I wrote on the other thread, when we were burgled whilst out walking the dog and surprised the intruders, the policeman whom came said it was a pity that my dog hadn't seized him. Now I don't want my dog to attack anyone really, not even burglars. It's enough for him to show potential as he did with the delivery guy.
But if he had caught the burglar and thrown him to the ground which I think would have been his mode of attack, maybe biting if the intruder had hurt him...would I have been at fault?

We keep two large dogs, first and foremost as pets. But we also know that if we were attacked or they perceived danger, they would defend us. In the UK the law as currently enforce absolves an owner of responsibility if their dog attacks anyone on their premises. People are prosecuted only if they have a dog listed under the banned breeds. I'm not really happy about this as a well-trained, regularly exercised dog should not be aggressive although all dogs like humans are ultimately unpredictable.

All our neighbours have very aggressive dogs, usually several. Our neighbour's dog regularly wanders the streets and has attacked and killed dogs and sheep. I wouldn't dream of sticking the tip of my little finger in the bars of their gate. Ditto the other dogs in our street. But that's common sense to me. 

So what is the law in Spain if Azor were to bite someone on our premises? I have to say that it would only occur were the person to be uninvited in our house. I can say that because our dogs are both well-trained, we are both responsible owners and trainers of dogs, we have been dog owners all our lives, child and adult and we work with dogs of all kinds and temperaments.

Any information with links to reputable sources would be much appreciated. I must say I did not appreciate some of the comments on the other thread which in many ways resembled the action of my dog with the delivery man....quick to snap at the keyboard and show concern which was both unnecessary and misplaced. We actually did the delivery guy a favour by telling him something he should have been taught about in training, as is the case certainly with postmen in the UK.


----------



## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

DAVID THE DOGMAN

Look this guy up Mary Mind you you will probably know him personally.What he doesn't know about dogs is not worth knowing.Met him when we first came to Spain and watched him training a Rottie and his handling had to be seen to be believed.For years he used to do a weekly column in the papers and mags.on the Costa del Sol so you can see Mary you are not the only one who had a big dog.Ahh well time for walkies.Just had a command from the wife to carry the shopping.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

soulboy said:


> DAVID THE DOGMAN
> 
> Look this guy up Mary Mind you you will probably know him personally.What he doesn't know about dogs is not worth knowing.Met him when we first came to Spain and watched him training a Rottie and his handling had to be seen to be believed.For years he used to do a weekly column in the papers and mags.on the Costa del Sol so you can see Mary you are not the only one who had a big dog.Ahh well time for walkies.Just had a command from the wife to carry the shopping.


Yes I do know him. Not impressed., tbh.
I don't need advice about training. I need to know the law.

You seem to regard big dogs as a status symbol. I find that strange. It must be a man thing. I 'm no fan of small dogs as they are often more aggressive than large breeds. We have always had big dogs, previously German Shepherds. There is also the fact that I'm short-sighted and would trip over a small dog.

I love both my dogs not because of their size but because they are my much-loved companions.

We also have a Cane Corso. She should be a big dog but is not as she was a rescue dog and her growth has been stunted through poor nourishment. We didn't exactly choose her, but decided on the spur of the moment to take her home when she was brought to our kennels. 

You seem rather sour these past few days....got out of bed the wrong side, had a row with OH...? Lighten up, enjoy life regardless.  These things pass


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I don't need advice about training. I need to know the law.


Sorry to say this, but I am surprised that a person as well educated as you, did not made it a matter of importance to know the law before you had a dog, which comes very clearly within the description of a dangerous dog, under the law.

Although I do not know him, I am pretty sure David the Dogman' could give you the advice you seek.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I can only repeat what I have said above. I do not regard D the D as highly as you do for reasons which are not relevant to this post.

As for your last sentence. .the day hasn't got better for you, has it? Some days are like that but I try to be pleasant to folk. 
Evidently easier for some than others....

And the fact someone has been here 'for many years' cuts little ice with me. Length of stay in Spain and knowledge and judgment do not always go had in hand. I know many people who have been here in Spain for forty years or more, some who came with their parents as children and grew up here. Some are wise, some are not.

Now, if you can't provide me with a link to the law as I have asked it's pointless wasting your time or mine.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

larryzx said:


> Sorry to say this, but I am surprised that a person as well educated as you, did not made it a matter of importance to know the law before you had a dog, which comes very clearly within the description of a dangerous dog, under the law.
> 
> Although I do not know him, I am pretty sure David the Dogman' could give you the advice you seek.


In view of your experience in assisting immigrants with their police problems it's surprising you are unable to at least point me to a reliable source of the information I am seeking.

If you had read my OP you would be aware that I am in fact seeking clarification of something I have been told by an agent of the Policia Nacional. In fact, I am 99% sure that if one's dog were to harm an intruder, one would be immune from prosecution.

As someone who was a serving police officer in the UK you will be aware the law states that a person cannot profit from a crime and therefore a burglar attacked by a dog in pursuance of a theft cannot take action against the dog's owner. I suspect that may be so in Spain but I would like confirmation.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, that's one way of saying you don't know.
> 
> )


Sorry Mary, but you know you never accept anything I say.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm not grumpy today

But I can't answer your questions:sorry:


----------



## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Well mary unless the laws have changed drastically in the last few years you are a bit out of touch me dear,if you are the owner of an animal or as in my case birds and some one breaks into your property,or even just trespasses and your animal attacks and injures him or her, the pet owner is legally liable for damages,as I have mentioned previously I am a falconer, but I also take part in captive breeding schemes for endangered species of raptors, on my brothers property in Cheshire, I had a huge free flight and breeding aviary for my European Eagle owls rather large birds,the female has a wingspan of almost 2 metres, but I digress also in the aviary was an enclosed row of mews containing young peregrine,saker and lanner falcons, one night 2 young men, cut through the perimeter fence and external aviary wall,the silent security system woke my brother who turned on the spotlights, one of the young men legged to be caught later, but the other was laid on the ground screaming his head off,the reason for this he had a very irate 2kilo broody eagle owl with talons stuck through calve of his leg, as owner I was contacted in aus by the Cheshire police and informed I was liable for treatment costs and mental anguish, but they also suggested I drop the charges against the 2 young men their parents would be prepared to cover the treatment costs themselves alsothe costs of repairing the aviary,After I dropped the charges,the police informed me that this was the pairs 4th attempt at stealing raptors,I was also legally advised to individually insure each bird which in later years proved very helpful, if your dogs are not trained to detain without harm, you haven't legally got a leg to stand on anywhere in europe


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Are you talking about the law in a Spain here?
I was under the impression that if you catch a burglar on your premises and he comes to any harm, cuts himself on a railing or gets bitten by a dog, that's his hard luck, and the police would take a lenient view.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Nignoy said:


> Well mary unless the laws have changed drastically in the last few years you are a bit out of touch me dear,if you are the owner of an animal or as in my case birds and some one breaks into your property,or even just trespasses and your animal attacks and injures him or her, the pet owner is legally liable for damages,as I have mentioned previously I am a falconer, but I also take part in captive breeding schemes for endangered species of raptors, on my brothers property in Cheshire, I had a huge free flight and breeding aviary for my European Eagle owls rather large birds,the female has a wingspan of almost 2 metres, but I digress also in the aviary was an enclosed row of mews containing young peregrine,saker and lanner falcons, one night 2 young men, cut through the perimeter fence and external aviary wall,the silent security system woke my brother who turned on the spotlights, one of the young men legged to be caught later, but the other was laid on the ground screaming his head off,the reason for this he had a very irate 2kilo broody eagle owl with talons stuck through calve of his leg, as owner I was contacted in aus by the Cheshire police and informed I was liable for treatment costs and mental anguish, but they also suggested I drop the charges against the 2 young men their parents would be prepared to cover the treatment costs themselves alsothe costs of repairing the aviary,After I dropped the charges,the police informed me that this was the pairs 4th attempt at stealing raptors,I was also legally advised to individually insure each bird which in later years proved very helpful, if your dogs are not trained to detain without harm, you haven't legally got a leg to stand on anywhere in europe



I don't know the law as it applies in Spain, but the owner of dogs which attacked and killed a young girl only a few miles from where my family lives in the UK could not be charged with any offence under the Dangerous Dogs Act because they were not out of control in a public place. She could only be charged with animal welfare offences.


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/01/dog-owner-cruelty-jade-lomas-anderson-concannon


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I don't know the law as it applies in Spain, but the owner of dogs which attacked and killed a young girl only a few miles from where my family lives in the UK could not be charged with any offence under the Dangerous Dogs Act because they were not out of control in a public place. She could only be charged with animal welfare offences.


Wasn't the law on this changed very recently in the UK?


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Wasn't the law on this changed very recently in the UK?


Oh yes, it seems you are right - no doubt the changes were introduced as a result of some of the horrible attacks which have taken place. And some of our contributors might like to note that they apply to dogs of any size or breed. Although not strictly relevant as this is UK law, not Spanish.

Advice - Changes to the Dangerous Dogs Act - Advice for Owners | National Animal Welfare Trust


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nignoy said:


> Well mary unless the laws have changed drastically in the last few years you are a bit out of touch me dear,if you are the owner of an animal or as in my case birds and some one breaks into your property,or even just trespasses and your animal attacks and injures him or her, the pet owner is legally liable for damages,as I have mentioned previously I am a falconer, but I also take part in captive breeding schemes for endangered species of raptors, on my brothers property in Cheshire, I had a huge free flight and breeding aviary for my European Eagle owls rather large birds,the female has a wingspan of almost 2 metres, but I digress also in the aviary was an enclosed row of mews containing young peregrine,saker and lanner falcons, one night 2 young men, cut through the perimeter fence and external aviary wall,the silent security system woke my brother who turned on the spotlights, one of the young men legged to be caught later, but the other was laid on the ground screaming his head off,the reason for this he had a very irate 2kilo broody eagle owl with talons stuck through calve of his leg, as owner I was contacted in aus by the Cheshire police and informed I was liable for treatment costs and mental anguish, but they also suggested I drop the charges against the 2 young men their parents would be prepared to cover the treatment costs themselves alsothe costs of repairing the aviary,After I dropped the charges,the police informed me that this was the pairs 4th attempt at stealing raptors,I was also legally advised to individually insure each bird which in later years proved very helpful, if your dogs are not trained to detain without harm, you haven't legally got a leg to stand on anywhere in europe


I'm not out of touch....I've never been in touch, which is why I'm asking for clarification.

You know, I'm not sure you're right about laws in the UK or Spain, that's why I want to see a link to the actual law. Recent cases involving injury to persons, even deaths, by dogs which occur on premises have resulted in charges only of keeping a banned breed. And these weren't intruders, they were visitors.

And the Spanish policeman told me that I would be immune from prosecution if my dog attacked a burglar.

I don't think Azor would actually bite. Once, when my son came home late when visiting us in Prague and we were asleep, Azor merely prevented him from moving either forwards or backwards by simply standing there in front or behind him. He's not been traine to be aggressive but like mostdogs he is very protective. Thankfully.

Ayway, thankyou for taking the time to give a reasoned and thoughtful response to my request for information.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I found this in that piece Lynn posted:

*There is a slight grey area in these changes in that if the person attacked is a burglar or trespasser your dog may not be considered dangerously out of control if it is in a building that is your private dwelling at the time of the attack. *

I had a feeling that this was the case in the UK and I think that Extranjero may be right in saying it's the same in Spain.

We have done all the things required with Azor as although he is not listed as a Dangerous Dog he fits the characteristics. He's registered, has his ID card, has chip, passport, all vaccinations, insurance more than the legal minimum and is walked on a lead and muzzle. Our garden is surrounded by a 2m plus wall and he is never allowed out unless leashed. He was well trained as a pup and has never been aggressive to humans. That's why I was peeved to be called 'irresponsible'. We have done the same for Xena, chip, registered etc.

But I cannot answer for what might happen if someone breaks into the house when I'm out or if I'm in come to that. Some people keep dogs solely for that purpose, as a deterrent. We don't. They are much-loved pets.

But having said that, Sandra was saved by Ferdinand that time she was attacked. We know Azor would behave in the same way.
Xena can't. She has no teeth because of malnourishment and having too many pups.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> We have done all the things required with Azor as although he is not listed as a Dangerous Dog he fits the characteristics.
> .


 According to what you have said "Very (x 3) big dog" your dog is a dangerous dog according to the regulations 

_Dangerous Dogs

Any person owning a potentially dangerous dog (perros potencialmente peligrosos) in Spain must have an appropriate licence (by law of article 3 of the Royal Decree 287/2002, of 22 of March 2002) and the dog must be registered with the municipality. Handlers and walkers of dangerous or potentially dangerous dogs must also be licenced (article 1, 2 of Law 50/1999, of December 1999). A licence is valid for five years.

Potentially dangerous dogs are identified as being in one of three categories:

1) Breeds and breed crosses classified as potentially dangerous:

Doberman (Andalucia only)
Pit Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Rottweiler
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro
Tosa Inu
Akita Inu

*2) Dogs with certain characteristics of these breeds are also classified as potentially dangerous. The characteristics are:

Strong musculature, powerful or athletic constitution, robustness, agility, vigor and endurance
Short hair
 Deep chest (60 to 80 cm), height of over 50 cm and a weight over 20 Kg
Big, square, head, with a wide skull and strong jaws
Broad, short and muscled neck.
Straight, parallel forelegs and muscular hindquarters, relatively long back legs standing at an angle*_*
"*


AND
_Walking a potentially dangerous dog

Dog owners or handlers must carry the licence and dog registration document when out with the dog. The dog must be muzzled and on a lead of no more than two metres long (one metre in Andalucia). Only one dog may be handled per person. In Andalucia, dangerous animals are banned from entering children's leisure or recreational areas.

Note: In most municipalities, only one dog may be registered to one person. *The property where the dogs are kept must be enclosed by a two metre high barrier.*_


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

larryzx said:


> According to what you have said "Very (x 3) big dog" your dog is a dangerous dog according to the regulations
> 
> _Dangerous Dogs
> 
> ...



Why are you telling me all this If you read my post above, can't remember which one, you will see that I posted that yes, I know he is a dangerous dog, not by breed but by characteristics, and therefore we have fulfilled all the requirements - registration, licence, insurances, passport, chip, vaccinations, walked on leash/muzzle, never allowed out, house with 2 metre plus wall surrounding it. So all that cut and paste was unhelpful.

One of our dogs is registered to me, one to my partner. So we are well aware of everything you have posted, thank you, as you would have seen if you had read my posts.

I did not solicit information about dangerous dogs. We did all that was required immediately on arriving in Spain. I want to know the law and you were unable to help me.
But Lynn and Extranjero have helped and I shall confirm what I believe to be the case not as you suggest with an expensive lawyer but with a lawyer none the less, to wit my neighbour Andreus who has a practice in Marbella and who will advise a poor old pensioner like me without charge.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

There's something here, but I don't think it says anything about if the dog is on your property and/ or someone is invading your property. 
Responsabilidad propietario animales | Tuabogadodefensor
You may find something under Normativa OR legislacion perros peligrosos España/ Normativa/ legislacion perros peligrosos atacar propiedad privada and similar.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There's something here, but I don't think it says anything about if the dog is on your property and/ or someone is invading your property.
> Responsabilidad propietario animales | Tuabogadodefensor
> You may find something under Normativa OR legislacion perros peligrosos España/ Normativa/ legislacion perros peligrosos atacar propiedad privada and similar.


Thanks. Useful information of the kind I was hoping for.

Most of the people we know have been burgled, we have too and I don't suppose one break-in means there won't be any more.
So I want to know where we stand if Azor attacks a thief. Xena won't, she'll bark and look fierce but she has practically no teeth...
Tbh, my first concern if we were robbed would be that Azor and Xena were safe and unharmed. We don't have anything worth stealing anyway.
Our burglars went off with my Sainsbury's earrings, £2 for a card of six....
I don't do jewels.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9;5855913
Most of the people we know have been burgled said:


> Unfortunately, in UK at least, statistically if a property has been broken into it is more likely to be broken into again. I would think that would apply almost everywhere.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There's something here, but I don't think it says anything about if the dog is on your property and/ or someone is invading your property.
> Responsabilidad propietario animales | Tuabogadodefensor
> You may find something under Normativa OR legislacion perros peligrosos España/ Normativa/ legislacion perros peligrosos atacar propiedad privada and similar.


Wouldn't this cover injuries to a burglar:

Todo propietario de un animal doméstico, perro, gato, caballo, burro, etc., responderá civilmente de los daños que éstos ocasionen a terceros, bien físicamente o a las propiedades que colindaren. La responsabilidad se atribuye al poseedor cuando el animal cause perjuicios, cualquiera sean las circunstancias e incluso en supuestos en los que se escape o extravíe.* La sola excepción es la culpa del perjudicado o la fuerza mayor.*


----------



## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

The police might turn a blind eye on occasion , but the civil law states as daft as it sounds ,anyone who injures themselves while trespassing ;the property owner is liable,as far as our lady ridgeback owners statements about her loving Ridgeback doggy, all dogs bite and many large dogs have a hunting pack instinct, rehoming animals does not make you some kind of expert,in my younger years I designed and staffed dog and cat homes in germany ,we also on occasion soft trained guard,sniffer, and close protection dogs and their future handlers, for the dutch army and airforce, and german border police and customs, the only ridgebacks or rotweilers I have ever come across in my working life being used as guard dogs were in the bad old days of Apartheid!! when they were used hunt and kill human beings,we found that a small leadpellet inserted in the left ear cured them of their savage tendencies,where we lived in country queensland ridgebacks are quite popular!!a pair of 7 yearold castrated ridgeback males who had been family pets since they were 4 month old, went absolutley Tropo and overnight ripped two full grown donkeys to pieces and savaged a group of alpakas on the neighbours property, next day they turned up at home like a pair of lambs,these are dominant races of dogs which are not suitable as pets!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nignoy said:


> The police might turn a blind eye on occasion , but the civil law states as daft as it sounds ,anyone who injures themselves while trespassing ;the property owner is liable,as far as our lady ridgeback owners statements about her loving Ridgeback doggy, all dogs bite and many large dogs have a hunting pack instinct, rehoming animals does not make you some kind of expert,in my younger years I designed and staffed dog and cat homes in germany ,we also on occasion soft trained guard,sniffer, and close protection dogs and their future handlers, for the dutch army and airforce, and german border police and customs, the only ridgebacks or rotweilers I have ever come across in my working life being used as guard dogs were in the bad old days of Apartheid!! when they were used hunt and kill human beings,we found that a small leadpellet inserted in the left ear cured them of their savage tendencies,where we lived in country queensland ridgebacks are quite popular!!a pair of 7 yearold castrated ridgeback males who had been family pets since they were 4 month old, went absolutley Tropo and overnight ripped two full grown donkeys to pieces and savaged a group of alpakas on the neighbours property, next day they turned up at home like a pair of lambs,these are dominant races of dogs which are not suitable as pets!


I have never claimed to be an 'expert'. I am well aware of the unpredictability of all dogs, especially Ridgebacks.

As for your statement that 'Ridgebacks are unsuitable as pets'...that is simply rubbish. There are posters on this Forum who own RRs and would be very surprised to read such nonsense.
RRs along with Rottweilers, Staffies, GSDs and other potentially dangerous dogs are shown at Crufts, have Kennel Club recognition and are loving companions to tens of thousands of people of all ages and nationalities the world over.
A dog's behaviour will depend largely but not exclusively on good training and a sense of responsibility on the part of the owner.

I started this thread to seek information which I eventually got. But I also got abusive posts which fellow forum members asked to be removed, a load of irrelevant stuff about hawks and falcons, information of which I was already well aware....and now I get told that a dog that is a loving companion to very many people shouldn't be kept as a pet...

You have your opinions and experience. I have mine. Thanks to those posters who supplied the information I requested - PW, Lynn, Extranjero - I now think I know where I stand.

I shall therefore no longer be posting on this thread.


----------

