# Another moving to Egypt thread



## becca.becca

Hey all,

Obviously the title says it all. 90% sure I will be moving to Cairo in late spring or early summer depending. Not moving for a man, I already have one of those. I'm simply going to learn the Arabic language. My questions are what should I expect to pay for rent, ballpark? I seem to be seeing anywhere from 3-5,000LE for Nasr city in order to have something decent. Second, anyone know a thing about preschools? Yes, I know, I've read some other threads about the insanity of bringing kids with but it is what it is. They are 5 and 3 if that helps any with the last question. Money shouldn't be much of an issue since my husband is military and I will just be pulling from our bank account for needs while there for a year, but knowing an estimate helps. I asked a few others and they seem to think 7-8500LE a month should do it easy.

Of course, share the good, bad and ugly of anything you guys think I need to hear before giving the full 100 for this. Thanks guys.


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## Homeless

becca.becca said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Obviously the title says it all. 90% sure I will be moving to Cairo in late spring or early summer depending. Not moving for a man, I already have one of those. I'm simply going to learn the Arabic language. My questions are what should I expect to pay for rent, ballpark? I seem to be seeing anywhere from 3-5,000LE for Nasr city in order to have something decent. Second, anyone know a thing about preschools? Yes, I know, I've read some other threads about the insanity of bringing kids with but it is what it is. They are 5 and 3 if that helps any with the last question. Money shouldn't be much of an issue since my husband is military and I will just be pulling from our bank account for needs while there for a year, but knowing an estimate helps. I asked a few others and they seem to think 7-8500LE a month should do it easy.
> 
> Of course, share the good, bad and ugly of anything you guys think I need to hear before giving the full 100 for this. Thanks guys.


20000-25000LE is going to be minimum for you and the kids. Reconsider Nasr City for Heliopplis if you need to be close to that side of Cairo or better yet Maadi. 

You can learn Arabic in many places that are less hazardous to your life.
A not on kids in Cairo. An acquaintance of mine bought her daughter a bike that she used only in the apartment. No one in their right mind would risk their child's life by letting them ride a Ike in the street. Then she bought here roller blades......same problem and another that never crossed my mind until I tried to roller blade myself; the ashfalt is so rough it is very uncomfortable. In Dahab I saw a few roads that were newly ( a year) paved and still closed to traffic and thought they must be smooth. Think again......... only small stretch of one was reasonable enough.


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## Biffy

Hi
I must agree with the higher estimate given I am afraid

Your children - the eldest is ready for scholl - so if you send him to a british curriculum school (international school) you are talking at least 25,000 LE for the year. 
Then you have the bus fees for the year for the children - normally around 5,000 LE each, registration for the school - normally around 6-9,000 LE each!!

AGain if you want your youngest to go to a school / preschool that is of a standard you require from the UK to prepare your child for going to school - again you could be talking in the region of the same money!! (that's what I paid for my little boy to go to preschool over the last 2 years).

And there are no alternatives!!!

Food - unless you are really going to go native - then your food bill will not be as cheap as you thought.
For example - my children hate the local Temmys cereals - but you buy cheerios - 45 LE, rice krispies- 30 LE.

So I think you may need to revise the money you are allocating for the year!!


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## Biffy

sorry - just realsied you are from the US - but the same applies for the school etc. - but just apply the same to American curriculum schools and nurseries!!


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## meb01999

at 5, your oldest will need to be in school here. if you wish to find a school comparable to one back home, expect to at least be paying 35,000 for the year base tuition (about 6000 USD). The problem with most of these schools is that your child will be behind, as school here starts at 3.5 for local kids. however, the very good genuine expat schools start at a later age but are upward of $20,000 with all fees included.

i would not move to nasr city. i would pick new cairo, maadi or madinaty if you want to be on that side of town.

do you have a plan for learning arabic? it's not something that you will just pick up well in a year.

oh - for schools, check out cairo american college, new cairo british international school, modern english school for top schools. then there is cairo english school and hayah american school. maybe check the maadi community school, too.

preschools - check baby academy or creative learning center. there is also trillium - which is montessori.

i cannot advocate for any of these in particular - and i promise i don't work for any of them (and don't send my kids to any of these either).

i live a reasonably egyptian life, and easily spend 10000-15000 pounds a month. i assume if you are expecting something close to the life back in the US (which you shouldn't - you'll be disappointed) you'll need much more.


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## mamasue

In these politically unstable times....I can't understand why anybody would move to Egypt....just to learn Arabic!!
The Arabic in Egypt is different to High Arabic, which is the 'normal' Arabic.
If I wanted to move somewhere for a year and learn a language....I'd probably move to somewhere warm... but politically stable, where a women doesn't have the fear of being groped or ripped off daily, and my kids could go to a decent school....and do a Rosetta Stone language course, or something....
Somewhere with an infrastructure...where I'd be safe with kids!!


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## Good 1

I don't think it is a good idea to move to Cairo now. It is too unstable here in all regards. Arabic laungage??? Why in Cairo? Moving to Cairo with two kids, no job here and no husband? Sorry, it sounds weird.


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## SunshineBarley

Slightly concerned that if your hubby is military then why are they not paying for your housing or are you accompaning him without the knowledge of his unit?

I only ask as normally if you are travelling with your hubby a married quarter is supplied for you.



becca.becca said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Obviously the title says it all. 90% sure I will be moving to Cairo in late spring or early summer depending. Not moving for a man, I already have one of those. I'm simply going to learn the Arabic language. My questions are what should I expect to pay for rent, ballpark? I seem to be seeing anywhere from 3-5,000LE for Nasr city in order to have something decent. Second, anyone know a thing about preschools? Yes, I know, I've read some other threads about the insanity of bringing kids with but it is what it is. They are 5 and 3 if that helps any with the last question. Money shouldn't be much of an issue since my husband is military and I will just be pulling from our bank account for needs while there for a year, but knowing an estimate helps. I asked a few others and they seem to think 7-8500LE a month should do it easy.
> 
> Of course, share the good, bad and ugly of anything you guys think I need to hear before giving the full 100 for this. Thanks guys.


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## Guest

I think people are being a little negative here. Although Egypt is unquestionably unstable, most of Cairo feels reasonably safe, and it is, in many ways, a great city to live in. If you are not including rent and education, you can probably live on about LE10,000-LE12,000 a month. As for where the best place are to learn Arabic, three years ago I would have said 1) Sanaa 2) Damascus and 3) Cairo (not that I know what language schools are like here) With Sanaa probably out of the question and Damascus certainly out of the question, that leaves Cairo...


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## MaidenScotland

IamnotLordCromer said:


> I think people are being a little negative here. Although Egypt is unquestionably unstable, most of Cairo feels reasonably safe, and it is, in many ways, a great city to live in. If you are not including rent and education, you can probably live on about LE10,000-LE12,000 a month. As for where the best place are to learn Arabic, three years ago I would have said 1) Sanaa 2) Damascus and 3) Cairo (not that I know what language schools are like here) With Sanaa probably out of the question and Damascus certainly out of the question, that leaves Cairo...




We are all entitled to an opinion but I can assure you that Cairo has changed completely since the revolution.. most of Cairo. where is most of Cairo? 

You are male so you live a different life to the females on this forum.
Plus you are still new to the city and the excitement is still with you..


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## Homeless

Slightly off topic. Most people wanting or thinking of moving to Egypt, research and calculate their options in a reasonable and logical way. The problem is they've probably never been in a place like Egypt and are unaware that their reason and logic is foreign to Egyptians.

As I was re-reading the first post I came a cross this: "3-5,000LE for Nasr city in order to have something decent" and wondered if the poster understands what decent is to Egyptians. The frame of reference is entirely different.
I agree that for a 5000LE you can get something decent for an American and for me personally but the point remains that Egyptians have a completely different frame of reference. 

For example, an unfurnished apartment means: no furniture, no appliances of any sort, no curtains and smashed up dirty walls and floors. It's a little worse than a fixer upper. They don't feel any obligation or sense in fixing the apartment before offering for rent to attract tenants and/or higher rent.

That was just a small example. Every step you take will be met by some unexpected logic which they strongly believe is the normal way of behaving and that you are the unreasonable strange foreigner.


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## MaidenScotland

We live here in Cairo with all it's problems but we have grown with the problems, politically we know the flash points, if a riot is taking place and a street is named we generally know where that street is and how to avoided it, if we get caught up we know how to get home on another route. We chat with our friends and know that certain roads are prone to bag snatching, when the next new scam is taking place, we have a net work of friends who we can call upon on an emergency this is what makes living here safer for us than for the guy who has just landed.


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## Homeless

MaidenScotland said:


> We live here in Cairo


You survive there in Cairo.


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## SunshineBarley

If you were a woman you would feel differently, proposals of marriage when my husband is stood right next to me, constantly being harrassed and stared at by men, and trust me I am no model, I just smile. Cairo is safe, really?? Tahir Square didnt just have a massive demonstration in it then where people died, Hurghada didnt have the road closed by the airport either cos there was a massive scrap in the middle of the road where the buses come out, welcome to Egypt have a nice time - me I am going to be glad to see the back of it. The country needs a woman in charge who has nothing to do with religion - the instability of the country is only going to get worse as more and more people lose their jobs as the tourism dries up ! 
 
I never said that I wouldnt come back, but at the moment, this is not the place I want to live ! 



IamnotLordCromer said:


> I think people are being a little negative here. Although Egypt is unquestionably unstable, most of Cairo feels reasonably safe, and it is, in many ways, a great city to live in. If you are not including rent and education, you can probably live on about LE10,000-LE12,000 a month. As for where the best place are to learn Arabic, three years ago I would have said 1) Sanaa 2) Damascus and 3) Cairo (not that I know what language schools are like here) With Sanaa probably out of the question and Damascus certainly out of the question, that leaves Cairo...


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## aykalam

SunshineBarley said:


> The country needs a woman in charge who has nothing to do with religion


I agree with your post 100% but this sentence made me smile. A woman?!...


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## MaidenScotland

My house boy tells me that yesterday he saw people armed with K45s and pistols. Whether it is true or not I do not know but he tells me they came in from the Sinai.. personally I will err on the side of caution and stay away from the window,


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> My house boy tells me that yesterday he saw people armed with K45s and pistols. Whether it is true or not I do not know but he tells me they came in from the Sinai.. personally I will err on the side of caution and stay away from the window,


I'd believe it. All kinds of nasty stuff has come into the country over the past two years.

The news here reports police success; they've captured the criminal (woah, what a success rate!), and there are reports, almost daily, of weapons busts - and I'm not talking about hand guns, either.


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## SunshineBarley

Absolutely, she cant do any worse than the bloke messing the country up at the moment can she ?? 



aykalam said:


> I agree with your post 100% but this sentence made me smile. A woman?!...


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## aykalam

SunshineBarley said:


> Absolutely, she cant do any worse than the bloke messing the country up at the moment can she ??


That's not the point. Egyptians would never elect a woman


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## SunshineBarley

I know but it does make me wonder why not ?? Is it because the majority of Egyptian men wouldnt like being told what to do by a woman in charge of their country, are they really that stuck in their chauvenistic ways that they cant see a way forward only living in the past ? Sorry dont mean to offend or cause a debate but really think that the country is so behind in the times that a young woman with a good head on her shoulders would be able to treat everyone the same and not have a country in conflict over something as stupid as religion ! 



aykalam said:


> That's not the point. Egyptians would never elect a woman


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## MaidenScotland

SunshineBarley said:


> I know but it does make me wonder why not ?? Is it because the majority of Egyptian men wouldnt like being told what to do by a woman in charge of their country, are they really that stuck in their chauvenistic ways that they cant see a way forward only living in the past ? Sorry dont mean to offend or cause a debate but really think that the country is so behind in the times that a young woman with a good head on her shoulders would be able to treat everyone the same and not have a country in conflict over something as stupid as religion !



Margaret Thatcher became PM in 1979.. so not so long ago

USA has not had a women president.. 

So no they are not so far behind as far as that is concerned, but in 50 years they wont have moved forward


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## aykalam

SunshineBarley said:


> I know but it does make me wonder why not ?? Is it because the majority of Egyptian men wouldnt like being told what to do by a woman in charge of their country, are they really that stuck in their chauvenistic ways that they cant see a way forward only living in the past ? Sorry dont mean to offend or cause a debate but really think that the country is so behind in the times that a young woman with a good head on her shoulders would be able to treat everyone the same and not have a country in conflict over something as stupid as religion !


Because this is a patriarchal society where most (both men and women) think that women are never really adults: first they are under the guardianship of their father, then of their husband. 

I've had conversations with young "educated" women in their 30s who said they would never go to a female doctor because they cannot trust her level of competency and male doctors are always better prepared and make less mistakes.

There is not a chance the majority of Egyptian women would vote for a female candidate to run the country. Specially a young woman! she would be a considered a "bint" i.e. little more than a tall curvy child with no gray matter inside her skull. 

Gender equality in Egypt is non existent and the status quo is very much internalised in the way children are brought up. The law does not protect women rights, and the new rulers are anything but equality advocates, as we all know.

Do I need to go on? because I could, you know


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## hurghadapat

aykalam said:


> Because this is a patriarchal society where most (both men and women) think that women are never really adults: first they are under the guardianship of their father, then of their husband.
> 
> I've had conversations with young "educated" women in their 30s who said they would never go to a female doctor because they cannot trust her level of competency and male doctors are always better prepared and make less mistakes.
> 
> There is not a chance the majority of Egyptian women would vote for a female candidate to run the country. Specially a young woman! she would be a considered a "bint" i.e. little more than a tall curvy child with no gray matter inside her skull.
> 
> Gender equality in Egypt is non existent and the status quo is very much internalised in the way children are brought up. The law does not protect women rights, and the new rulers are anything but equality advocates, as we all know.
> 
> Do I need to go on? because I could, you know


Sorry but "bint" in Egyptian arabic is daughter


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> Sorry but "bint" in Egyptian arabic is daughter


dont be sorry 

bint means daughter as well as girl. it is often used in a condescending way to address young women


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## Guest

SunshineBarley said:


> If you were a woman you would feel differently, proposals of marriage when my husband is stood right next to me, constantly being harrassed and stared at by men, and trust me I am no model, I just smile. Cairo is safe, really?? Tahir Square didnt just have a massive demonstration in it then where people died, Hurghada didnt have the road closed by the airport either cos there was a massive scrap in the middle of the road where the buses come out, welcome to Egypt have a nice time - me I am going to be glad to see the back of it. The country needs a woman in charge who has nothing to do with religion - the instability of the country is only going to get worse as more and more people lose their jobs as the tourism dries up !
> 
> I never said that I wouldnt come back, but at the moment, this is not the place I want to live !


Tahrir might not be safe all the time, but I've had no problem going around elsewhere in Cairo (by day at least). I've been walking around Islamic Cairo, the Cities of the Dead, Dokki, Mohandiseen and Shubra and didn't feel threatened, a bit of joshing aside. Crossed Tahrir Square yesterday. Apart from one group of young toughs who threw a stone at me, that was ok as well. No, I'm not a woman, but haven't heard my wife complain about being ogled or harassed overly, although obviously there have been major problems on that front in Tahrir Square.


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## hurghadapat

aykalam said:


> dont be sorry
> 
> bint means daughter as well as girl. it is often used in a condescending way to address young women


i am quite well aware of what "bint" means be it daughter or girl...but am also aware of the enviroment that you live in as to how "bint "is interperated...


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> i am quite well aware of what "bint" means be it daughter or girl...but am also aware of the enviroment that you live in as to how "bint "is interperated...


environment as in expat environment?


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## hurghadapat

aykalam said:


> environment as in expat environment?


TBH...wouldn't think ex-pat enviroment would know the difference...but most egyptians that i know would be very upset to have their "Bint or Binti" classed as you have classed them.


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> TBH...wouldn't think ex-pat enviroment would know the difference...but most egyptians that i know would be very upset to have their "Bint or Binti" classed as you have classed them.


This is what I wrote:

_There is not a chance the majority of Egyptian women would vote for a female candidate to run the country. Specially a young woman! she would be a considered a "bint" i.e. little more than a tall curvy child with no gray matter inside her skull. _

because that's how the majority of Egyptians (not me) consider young women. I do not approve of this mentality, I thought that was clear.


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## MaidenScotland

IamnotLordCromer said:


> Tahrir might not be safe all the time, but I've had no problem going around elsewhere in Cairo (by day at least). I've been walking around Islamic Cairo, the Cities of the Dead, Dokki, Mohandiseen and Shubra and didn't feel threatened, a bit of joshing aside. Crossed Tahrir Square yesterday. Apart from one group of young toughs who threw a stone at me, that was ok as well. No, I'm not a woman, but haven't heard my wife complain about being ogled or harassed overly, although obviously there have been major problems on that front in Tahrir Square.


Well lets hope that your wife never experiences what we have been through 
but once you have been here for a time your opinion may change


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## MaidenScotland

I often call myself an old bint.


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## Homeless

MaidenScotland said:


> Well lets hope that your wife never experiences what we have been through
> but once you have been here for a time your opinion may change


The reason Egyptians would not elect a woman president is the same for not electing a non-Muslim and that is the president position is viewed as superior to Egyptian citizens not as a civil servant and as such lesser people as women and non Muslims are not acceptable. 
In Islam the "ruler" is to be obeyed even when corrupt for as long as he permits people to freely worship God. At the time of January 25,2011 many religious scholars (read lunatics)and supposedly moderate Muslims made the same argument.

What was most disturbing to me is hearing these kind of arguments form people who seemed liberal on the surface then when discussion got to certain topics as women, free speech, Religions and morality, I realized that the underlying principles are the same right across the board.


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## Helen Ellis

Hurghada is much cheaper and safer. 
Take the kids out of school for a year, let them mix with the local kids (Egyptian, mixed and foreign)and in a year they'll be fluent in Arabic, probably have a smattering of a few other languages too and will have learned way more than they'll have missed at school. 
7 or 8000 le is enough to live on here, not extravagantly, but enough, and of course to use your Arabic you'll be shopping in the local markets and travelling by bus, again saving money.
The air is cleaner here too.


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