# Uk spouse visa accommodation requirements



## expatr (Apr 22, 2014)

I m going to apply for spouse visa. My son has got British passport . He is 18 months old. How many rooms do We have to require for 3 of us . Is the studio flat enough for us for visa purpose or we need to have a house having 2 bedrooms?
How many rooms do we need for accommodation purpose


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

You need flat or house with two ROOMS

NO OF ROOMS ..... PERMITTED NO OF PERSONS
.......... 1 ................................. 2
.......... 2 ................................. 3

child under the age of one does not count as a person. A child aged 1 - 10 years will count as only half a person. Your son is 18 year old so one bedroom flat will not be sufficient


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## expatr (Apr 22, 2014)

My son is 18 months old. If I rent a one bedroom flat which has a open plan kitchen/living room and one bedroom . Would it suffice? From when I apply minimum of how many months have to be left on my tenancy agreement . Thank you for your reply and have a good new year.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

_2. Count the number of rooms available as sleeping accommodation.
When counting the number of rooms to assess whether a property is or will be overcrowded,
the decision maker should look at how the sleeping arrangements within the premises could
be organised rather than at how they are currently organised. In practice, this means counting
the number of rooms that are bedrooms or are living rooms which could be used as a
bedroom. Bathrooms and kitchens should not be counted as sleeping accommodation.
Rooms of less than 50 square feet are not counted. 

You need flat or house with two ROOMS

NO OF ROOMS ..... PERMITTED NO OF PERSONS
.......... 1 ................................. 2
.......... 2 ................................. 3_

Your son is 18 months old so counts as half a person. You will be 2.5 persons living in a one bedroom apartment (apartment has living room).. So you have 2 rooms and 2.5 living there. This will be OK.

There is no minimum lease specified. However, in practise, on the date you apply if your lease is ending the following month, it could be construed that you could be homeless by the time the visa is issued. So the longer the time the better.


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> _2. Count the number of rooms available as sleeping accommodation.
> When counting the number of rooms to assess whether a property is or will be overcrowded,
> the decision maker should look at how the sleeping arrangements within the premises could
> be organised rather than at how they are currently organised. In practice, this means counting
> ...


18 months old dont count as half a person

a child under 1 does not count as a person.
a child aged 1-10 years counts as only half a person.

A house is considered to be overcrowded if 2 persons aged 10 years or more of opposite sexes, who are not living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room. The Act also details the maximum number of people allowed for a given number of rooms or a given room floor area.

Account is taken only of rooms with a floor area larger than 50 square feet and rooms of a type used either as a living room or bedroom.

Rooms such as kitchens or bathrooms are excluded.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-and-accommodation-maa--2#maa12-overcrowding


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

expatr said:


> My son is 18 months old. If I rent a one bedroom flat which has a open plan kitchen/living room and one bedroom . Would it suffice? From when I apply minimum of how many months have to be left on my tenancy agreement . Thank you for your reply and have a good new year.


You better get a housing inspection report from certified surveyor because you cannot make kitchen as living room just because it has some open area unless you have a separate living room along with one bedroom. tenancy should be valid at the time of making application and they know it could be renew


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

ILR1980 said:


> 18 months old dont count as half a person
> 
> a child under 1 does not count as a person.
> a child aged 1-10 years counts as only half a person.
> ...


Please clarify. Are you saying "18 months old dont count as half a person"? 

In your next sentence you state:


a child under 1 does not count as a person.
a child aged 1-10 years counts as only half a person.

To my way of thinking, a child of 18 months (i.e 1.5 years) does qualify as half a person since 1.5 years comes within the range of 1-10 years.


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> Please clarify. Are you saying "18 months old dont count as half a person"?
> 
> In your next sentence you state:
> 
> ...


sorry my bad. you are correct i was reading it 18 years


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

ILR1980 said:


> sorry my bad. you are correct i was reading it 18 years


Whew.... thanks, thought all that New Year wine had REALLY affected me.


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> Whew.... thanks, thought all that New Year wine had REALLY affected me.


lol hahah

I think their definition of overcrowding is still confusing and contradictory with how many person allowed in no of rooms



" A house is considered to be overcrowded if 2 persons aged 10 years or more of opposite sexes, who are not living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room "

so here 2 person of opposite sex living together as husband and wife and there is no other person age 10 or more in same room

now it suggest if you are married couple with one children under 10 then one bedroom is enough but then it contradict with

1 room for 2 person
2 rooms for 3 person

then what about 2 and half person?


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

ILR1980 said:


> lol hahah
> 
> I think their definition of overcrowding is still confusing and contradictory with how many person allowed in no of rooms
> 
> ...



... as it says:

2 rooms for three persons. (you cannot apply with just 1 room available, since there are 2.5 persons living there; however 2 rooms covers up to 3 persons)


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> ... as it says:
> 
> 2 rooms for three persons. (you cannot apply with just 1 room available, since there are 2.5 persons living there; however 2 rooms covers up to 3 persons)


You are correct 2 rooms cover up to 3 person but my understanding of definition of overcrowding as they defined is " two person (10 years old or more) of opposite sex in same room who are not living together as husband and wife so here married couple count as one person and if second person living in same room is not 10 years old or more then its not over crowding....

18 months old child is baby and they live with parent in bedroom even if they have spare room or living room

unless i am reading it wrong


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

ILR1980 said:


> You are correct 2 rooms cover up to 3 person but my understanding of definition of overcrowding as they defined is " two person (10 years old or more) of opposite sex in same room who are not living together as husband and wife so here married couple count as one person and if second person living in same room is not 10 years old or more then its not over crowding....
> 
> 18 months old child is baby and they live with parent in bedroom even if they have spare room or living room
> 
> unless i am reading it wrong


A married couple counts as two people. Nowhere in the MAA document nor in the FM 1.7A (maintenance and accommodation) is a married couple defined as one person.

The example below confirms that a married couple are defined as two people:

_Example A
The accommodation has 1 room available as sleeping accommodation. The house
would be occupied by a couple, and one child aged 5. The housing is overcrowded and
therefore does not provided adequate accommodation under the Immigration Rules
because only 2 people are permitted to sleep in the property without it being
overcrowded whereas 2.5 people wish to sleep there._


Page 22 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._and_Accommodation_Appendix_FM_Annex_1_7A.pdf


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> A married couple counts as two people. Nowhere in the MAA document nor in the FM 1.7A (maintenance and accommodation) is a married couple defined as one person.
> 
> The example below confirms that a married couple are defined as two people:
> 
> ...


Thanks for bringing but here is what i was talking about which is not clear in immigration rules

*How to calculate statutory overcrowding*

Under housing law, there are two ways to calculate if your home is overcrowded.

One way is by the number of rooms for people to sleep in. This is called the room standard.

The other way is by the amount of space in the home and the number of people living in it. This is called the space standard.

Statutory overcrowding is when there are too many people living in your home using either of the calculations.

*1. Calculate the number of rooms*

The room standard says your home is legally overcrowded if two people of the opposite sex have to share a room to sleep in.* This does not apply when couples share a room.

Children under 10 years old are not counted under the room standard.*

Your bedrooms and any living rooms are counted as rooms you can sleep in. It doesn't matter which rooms you actually sleep in.

Under the room standard, a couple with a boy and a girl aged under the age of 10 in a one-bedroom flat with a living room are not overcrowded.


*2. Calculate the amount of space*

Under the space standard, the number of people in your home is compared with both the number of rooms and the floor area.

There are two separate calculations for working out if you're overcrowded:

the first looks at the number of rooms you have.

the second looks at the floor area in your home.

The answer to each calculation gives the number of rooms that's enough for you and your family. If the numbers are different, the lower number is used. Your home is legally overcrowded if the number of people living there is more than this.

To count the number of people:

don't include children under 1 year old
children aged 1 to 9 years count as a half
anyone aged 10 or over counts as one person
To count the number of rooms, include bedrooms and living rooms but don't include any rooms under 50 square feet.

Number of rooms
The number of rooms considered enough for your family is:

1 room for 2 people
2 rooms for 3 people
3 rooms for 5 people
4 rooms for 7.5 people
5 or more rooms for 2 people per room
Floor area
The minimum floor area considered enough for your family is:

50 - 69 square feet (4.6 - 6.4 square metres) for 0.5 people
70 - 89 square feet (6.5 - 8.3 square metres) for 1 person
90 - 109 square feet (8.4 -10.1 square metres) for 1.5 people
110 square feet (10.2 square metres) for 2 people

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/68/part/X/crossheading/definition-of-overcrowding

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/overcrowding

https://sheltercymru.org.uk/get-advice/repairs-and-bad-conditions/overcrowding/


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

I don't think what you are writing about is unclear at all. "Anyone over the age of 10 counts as one person" Hence, a couple is two people. Anyone between the age of 1 to 10 is half a person.

So a couple with a boy and girl under ten, count as 2 people for couple, plus 1 for the children = 3 people = they need accommodation of two rooms (bedroom, plus living room which doubles as bedroom)

The example I gave you previously is the exact situation the OP has: A couple with a young child.

The example says they need accommodation with two rooms. I agree. The OP's family is 2.5 people. (2 for the couple themselves and .5 for the child)

You and I should agree to disagree, if you still think one room accommodation is OK for the OP.


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> I don't think what you are writing about is unclear at all. "Anyone over the age of 10 counts as one person" Hence, a couple is two people. Anyone between the age of 1 to 10 is half a person.
> 
> So a couple with a boy and girl under ten, count as 2 people for couple, plus 1 for the children = 3 people = they need accommodation of two rooms (bedroom, plus living room which doubles as bedroom)
> 
> ...


There are two different standards to define overcrowding . You are talking about "The space standard" of overcrowding here where married couple with 18 months old child living in one bedroom would be overcrowded( one room is not enough for 2.5 person) while i am saying that one bedroom property for one couple with one child under the age of ten is not considered overcrowding according to " The room standard " of overcrowding where they ignore child under the age of 10 thats where they are contradictory to each other 

*325 The room standard.*
(1)The room standard is contravened when the number of persons sleeping in a dwelling and the number of rooms available as sleeping accommodation is such that two persons of opposite sexes who are not living together as husband and wife must sleep in the same room.

(2)For this purpose—
(a)children under the age of ten shall be left out of account, and
(b)a room is available as sleeping accommodation if it is of a type normally used in the locality either as a bedroom or as a living room. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/68/part/X/crossheading/definition-of-overcrowding


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

deleted


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

ILR1980 said:


> There are two different standards to define overcrowding . You are talking about "The space standard" of overcrowding here where married couple with 18 months old child living in one bedroom would be overcrowded( one room is not enough for 2.5 person)
> 
> 
> 
> g[/url]


In the example you give above, a couple with an 18 month year old in a one bedroom apartment would *NOT* be a case of overcrowding. A one bedroom apartment is one WITH A LIVING ROOM. Therefore the property would be a 2 room property and would comply with the requirement of up to 3 people living in a 2 room property

A studio apartment or bedsit where there is one room for living_ and_ sleeping WOULD be overcrowded for a couple with a child, as it would be a one room property.

The requirements refer to *room* numbers (bedrooms and living rooms available for use as sleeping quarters) not solely bedroom numbers.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Since they are not sharing with friends or family, this is all a non-issue for the OP. You only need to address overcrowding when you are sharing with friends or family. If it is just your wife and child, there is no need to justify your living arrangements and a 1 bedroom flat is fine.


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

Crawford said:


> In the example you give above, a couple with an 18 month year old in a one bedroom apartment would *NOT* be a case of overcrowding. A one bedroom apartment is one WITH A LIVING ROOM. Therefore the property would be a 2 room property and would comply with the requirement of up to 3 people living in a 2 room property
> 
> A studio apartment or bedsit where there is one room for living_ and_ sleeping WOULD be overcrowded for a couple with a child, as it would be a one room property.
> 
> The requirements refer to *room* numbers (bedrooms and living rooms available for use as sleeping quarters) not solely bedroom numbers.


I was talking about " one bedroom " without any other room i.e dining , living, sleeping etc room available. Is this overcrowded for a couple with 18 months child? Its yes or No depend on standards being used for measuring overcrowding. You are correct when we talk about " The space standards " which count 18 months child as half person* But *
by " The room standards" they only count a child if he is ten year old or more so if you use this standard then one room property( whether its bedroom, living room etc) is sufficient for a couple and single 18 months child 

*
1) Room Standard*
Number of Rooms....	Number of Persons allowed
1	......................................2
2	......................................3
3	......................................5
4	......................................7.5
5 or more	2 per extra room

*This standard does not include children under 10 *

*2) Space Standard*

Square meters floor area (square feet)......	Number of Persons allowed
10.2 (110) or more......................................	2
8.36 - 10.2 (90 to 110).................................	1.5
6.50 - 8.36 (70 to 90).................................	1
4.66 - 6.50 (50 to 70)......................................0.5
less than 4.66 (50)..........................................	0

Floor area should be measured per room and the total of occupiers totalled for the whole dwelling

*Persons counted as follows:*
babies under 1 equal 0 persons,
children 1-10 years equal ½ person,
over 10 years = 1 person

*3) Gender Overcrowding*

No two persons, over 10 years old, of opposite sex should have to sleep in the same room (unless living as a couple). This does not allow for couples to have a room to themselves - the standard would not be breached if the mother slept in the same room as the daughter and the father with the son.

Whichever standard allows the smallest number of occupiers should be used to determine the maximum number of occupants per dwelling.


My last try to explain this overcrowding as per housing act. I am not disagree with you but i am just saying that you are using only one specific standard which count 18 months child as half but you are ignoring another standard used to measure overcrowding where they dont count 18 months only child as half


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

nyclon said:


> Since they are not sharing with friends or family, this is all a non-issue for the OP. You only need to address overcrowding when you are sharing with friends or family. If it is just your wife and child, there is no need to justify your living arrangements and a 1 bedroom flat is fine.


Incorrect mate. You are saying that a big family( say couple with 2/3 adult children) can live in one bedroom flat and ECO will not look at it whether its sufficient and satisfy accommodation requirements simply because they are not sharing it with friends or family.. Overcrowding rule is used even if property is just for personal use but it should be sufficient for personal use and should not be overcrowded


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

ILR1980 said:


> Incorrect mate. You are saying that a big family( say couple with 2/3 adult children) can live in one bedroom flat and ECO will not look at it whether its sufficient and satisfy accommodation requirements simply because they are not sharing it with friends or family.. Overcrowding rule is used even if property is just for personal use but it should be sufficient for personal use and should not be overcrowded


The OP has no reason to be concerned about overcrowding. Your are creating problems where there are none.

The experience of the forum is that if you are not sharing, you do not have to elaborate any further.


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## ILR1980 (Feb 5, 2016)

nyclon said:


> The OP has no reason to be concerned about overcrowding. Your are creating problems where there are none.
> 
> The experience of the forum is that if you are not sharing, you do not have to elaborate any further.


Creating problems? where? Its discussion for sake of knowledge 

You are also giving wrong information that rule of overcrowding apply only if you share your property with friends and family which is wrong. Experience on forum dont matter but what are the actual immigration rules. It apply to all cases whether you share property with friends or family or if its just for personal use as rule of availability and adequacy of accommodation apply to everyone

Read these rules especially overcrowding part

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...tion-maa/maintenance-and-accommodation-maa--2


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