# UK NHS Pension



## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi, I worked in the UK NHS for almost 30 years. I took early "pension" retirement (I´m only 51) so took my contributions earlier.

I am credited my UK monthly pension into my Spanish bank account at the "best exchange rate of the day, at time of transfer." This is okay, the rate has been quite good, to date.

Having read quite a number of advertisements regarding taxation on pensions from the UK, my question is: Does anyone know if I would be better off taxation wise, doing something to reflect that I pay tax on my pension in Spain ... or something like this?

I´m totally not a pension/taxation expert so any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.:dizzy


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

You do not have a choice, I also have a Govt. pension it is taxed at source and cannot be changed.

My O.A.P. is different it comes under the Spanish taxation system.


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

Hepa said:


> You do not have a choice, I also have a Govt. pension it is taxed at source and cannot be changed.
> 
> My O.A.P. is different it comes under the Spanish taxation system.


OK, thank you. So basically do nothing?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Manin_bcn said:


> OK, thank you. So basically do nothing?


Anyone who resides in Spain for more than six months, must make a tax return, even if you are not earning in Spain. You can do this through a Gestor, we did ours by attending at the local tax office, and they filled in the form for us. 

You can also do it online, however even after I had translated the form into English, it was all gobbledygook. We got a small rebate on the tax we had unknowingly paid by banking.

Others who live on the Peninsular will no doubt advise a Gestor, I was unlucky our gave the wrong advice, so find a good one and insist in filing a return.

Hope this helps


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

It might just be me, but I'm a bit confused by your post. Your first point is about the exchange rate, and then you ask about 'doing something to reflect that I pay tax on my pension is Spain' and then when Hepa replied about your pension only being taxed in the UK, you say you will just do nothing.

With regard to where it is taxed, it depends who pays you. If it is a local authority it is taxed in the UK. If it is Capita or the Paymaster General, it is taxable in Spain, as it is not then classed as a government pension in terms if the double taxation agreement


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> It might just be me, but I'm a bit confused by your post. Your first point is about the exchangd rate, and then you ask about 'doing something to reflect that I pay tax on my pension is Spain' and then when Hepa replied about your pension only being taxed in the UK, you say you will just do nothingnothing


... no, no. Sorry, if I didn´t articulate my thread well enough. The exchange rate was just an infill. That´s fine.

My question again: Do I need to do anything regarding my monthly UK NHS pension, which is taxed in the UK, then the NETT amount is credited to my laCaixa bank, here in Spain?

I have read that I may benefit from a taxation perspective if I transfer or change ... sorry!:confused2:


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> It might just be me, but I'm a bit confused by your post. Your first point is about the exchange rate, and then you ask about 'doing something to reflect that I pay tax on my pension is Spain' and then when Hepa replied about your pension only being taxed in the UK, you say you will just do nothing.
> 
> With regard to where it is taxed, it depends who pays you. If if us a local authority it is taxed in the UK. If if is Capita or the Paymaster General, it is taxable in Spain


... ah, just saw the remaining part of your post.

I am taxed by Paymaster General in the UK


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Ooh then you should be declaring and paying tax in Spain

(Sorry I'm posting from my iPhone, and for some reason I can only see the first para, so I have to post and then edit)


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> Ooh then you should be declaring and paying tax in Spain


... oh blimey! Really?

So I will be taxed in the UK and in Spain on the same pension?

I´ve Googled and Googled but cannot find anything on this .... aaaargh!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

No, you will need to complete a form Spain Individual so it will be paid gross. 

This is the link to the HMRC which confirms about Paymaster General http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pommanual/paye81025.htm


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> No, you will need to complete a form Spain Individual so it will be paid gross.
> 
> This is the link to the HMRC which confirms about Paymaster General PAYE81025 - PAYE operation: double taxation claims submitted by non resident individuals: government pensions


ah okay, thanks very much for this ... I will look in more detail.

I think I had better contact NHS Pensions too, right? Oh dear!!


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> No, you will need to complete a form Spain Individual so it will be paid gross.
> 
> This is the link to the HMRC which confirms about Paymaster General PAYE81025 - PAYE operation: double taxation claims submitted by non resident individuals: government pensions


Okay have emailed NHS Pensions for additional advice. My records show that I am paid by Paymaster General so I just want to get this sorted! I would have thought NHS Pensions would have advised me on this, surely?


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Manin_bcn said:


> Okay have emailed NHS Pensions for additional advice. My records show that I am paid by Paymaster General so I just want to get this sorted! I would have thought NHS Pensions would have advised me on this, surely?


Not sure why you would think that NHS Pension would be qualified to advise you on spanish tax matters.

Personally I would call HMRC (I've always found them to be helpful), who should confirm the information I have already given you, i.e an NHS pension paid by the Paymaster General is not considered to be "Government Pension" for the purposes of Double Taxation (unless you live in Germany or the states of the former Yugoslavia).

Assuming that is the case, then they should confirm that if you submitted a Form Individual Spain they would authorise it to be paid gross. On this basis, it is subject to tax in Spain, and you should complete and submit a return. 

However, I would strongly recommend that you seek professional advice, as, if you have already been her 5 years, then you need to decided whether you are going to "fess upto that", or just submit a return from this year onwards.

This is the link to the Non-residents contact page for HMRC

HMRC Contact us


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, thanks very much for this. I have now contacted the NHS Pensions for additional advice....


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> Not sure why you would think that NHS Pension would be qualified to advise you on spanish tax matters.
> 
> Personally I would call HMRC (I've always found them to be helpful), who should confirm the information I have already given you, i.e an NHS pension paid by the Paymaster General is not considered to be "Government Pension" for the purposes of Double Taxation (unless you live in Germany or the states of the former Yugoslavia).
> 
> ...



... okay, ooh, you´ve got me worried now!

Well, I will contact HMRC as well ... I have only been receiving my NHS Pension since November 2011 ...


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Manin_bcn said:


> ... okay, ooh, you´ve got me worried now!
> 
> Well, I will contact HMRC as well ... I have only been receiving my NHS Pension since November 2011 ...


I don't know where I got the idea that you'd been here 5 years (I though I'd read that in your first post). If that's not the case, and assuming you moved here in November 2011, then its not a problem.

Assuming HMRC confirm my information is correct, then all you need to do is submit your return next May for 2012, complete a Form Spain Individual and then HMRC will refund the tax paid by you from January 2012. NB, you will need to pay Hacienda first, but you will get a refund from HMRC.


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> I don't know where I got the idea that you'd been here 5 years (I though I'd read that in your first post). If that's not the case, and assuming you moved here in November 2011, then its not a problem.
> 
> Assuming HMRC confirm my information is correct, then all you need to do is submit your return next May for 2012, complete a Form Spain Individual and then HMRC will refund the tax paid by you from January 2012. NB, you will need to pay Hacienda first, but you will get a refund from HMRC.


... ah, I lived in Barcelona for three years prior to moving to Alicante a few weeks ago but, only been receiving my pension since Nov 2011. I was working, in Barca as an English teacher and paying tax etc... so that´s fine yes?

You´ve been extremely helpful, thank you very much!

I have now contacted HRMC and await their reply. Is taxation on pensions higher in Spain than the UK?


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Manin_bcn said:


> ... ah, I lived in Barcelona for three years prior to moving to Alicante a few weeks ago but, only been receiving my pension since Nov 2011. I was working, in Barca as an English teacher and paying tax etc... so that´s fine yes?
> 
> You´ve been extremely helpful, thank you very much!
> 
> I have now contacted HRMC and await their reply. Is taxation on pensions higher in Spain than the UK?


Welll , I guess you should have included the November/December payments in your 2011 return (submitted in may 2012), but presumably you didn't, but I wouldn't worry about that. I would just submit next year. Theoretically you can offset the tax paid rather than claim a refund, but there has been reports recently that Hacienda have been insisting on payment, and you claim a refund. 

As far taxation is concerned, you receive the same allowances as for income ( until you're over 65) and the tax rates are the same. The only tax benefits for pension arise if you have an annuity, but this is isn't the case here.


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> Welll , I guess you should have included the November/December payments in your 2011 return (submitted in may 2012), but presumably you didn't, but I wouldn't worry about that. I would just submit next year. Theoretically you can offset the tax paid rather than claim a refund, but there has been reports recently that Hacienda have been insisting on payment, and you claim a refund.
> 
> As far taxation is concerned, you receive the same allowances as for income ( until you're over 65) and the tax rates are the same. The only tax benefits for pension arise if you have an annuity, but this is isn't the case here.


... no, have never, EVER, done a tax return here! Should I have? Oh crikey, this is going from bad to worse!!

You say "offset" the tax paid, what do you mean, specifically? Sorry, I´m taking up all your time on this ....:confused2:


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Manin_bcn said:


> ... no, have never, EVER, done a tax return here! Should I have? Oh crikey, this is going from bad to worse!!
> 
> You say "offset" the tax paid, what do you mean, specifically? Sorry, I´m taking up all your time on this ....:confused2:


You wouldn't necessarily have to do a tax return, it depends on your earnings. If they're under €22,000 and being taxed, then you don't need to submit a return, unless you have other income. As I said, I would just submit a return for 2012 in May 2013, declaring your pension (assuming HMRC confirm my information).

There is a Double Taxation agreement (DTA) between the UK and Spain. You can read it here  and here , and this is the link to form Spain.

The agreement defines how and where income is taxed if it earnt in one country by someone who resides (for fiscal purposes in another). The basic principle is that you don't pay tax twice on the same amount. In past years, when times were good, the Hacienda didn't worry about it, and you declared the income,and then the tax already paid, and you only paid tax to Spain if there was any due on top of this. However, because they are now looking for revenue, there have been one or two reports that they are asking people to pay the tax in Spain, and claim it back from HMRC (which you can do, except where is it defined in the DTA e.g interest earnt in the UK, which is always taxed at 12% in the UK unless it is paid gross by the payer).

If you think about it from Spain point of view, this is a logical step, and if I was them, I'd be doing the same.


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> You wouldn't necessarily have to do a tax return, it depends on your earnings. If they're under €22,000 and being taxed, then you don't need to submit a return, unless you have other income. As I said, I would just submit a return for 2012 in May 2013, declaring your pension (assuming HMRC confirm my information).
> 
> There is a Double Taxation agreement (DTA) between the UK and Spain. You can read it here  and here , and this is the link to form Spain.
> 
> ...


... yes, if I were the Spanish auth´s I´d be doing exactly the same although, clutching at straws and all that ...!

Really helpful ... you are a font of information! I guess, I have learnt a great deal from this and once assimilated (if ever) will get this sorted. Keep you posted! Thanks.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

i thought NHS pensions are not gov pensions... as they are paid by NHS Trusts therefore they come under the double tax treaty...... that's what i have been told..but then again i am new to all this
x


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