# Form 8833



## crisvic (Jan 25, 2020)

Good afternoon....a U.S citizen living permanently in Spain, filing his taxes everyear, just read about form 8833. Says he never filed that form before, and wants to know if it is mandatory, if he must file it in the future...His income is based exclusively in around 11.000$ U.S. social security and approx 13000euros Spain social security. So far he only pays taxes in Spain as he uses the Foreign tax credit on his u.s. return for his spanish taxes (around 3300$) ..normally ends up paying around 300$ in the U.S which he deducts on his spanish tax return...so..ends up paying nothing. Is he doing it correctly...or must that 8833 form be filed too....thanks for your valuable help


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The 8833 is only if you're claiming some sort of tax treaty benefit somehow. I don't know anyone who files that one unless they have some pretty elaborate investments where they "need" to indicate that they're claiming something under the relevant tax treaty. 

The US-Spain tax treaty should indicate where the social security amounts are taxable. Often, the US SS is taxable only in the US while the other social security is taxable only in the country it comes from (i.e. Spain). Many US taxpayers living overseas just don't report the payments at all to the US if they are not taxable there.


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## crisvic (Jan 25, 2020)

He,s been reporting both spanish and u.s, s.s. pensions in Spain and U.S, worldwide income??...I,ll let him know..thanks so much.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

crisvic said:


> He,s been reporting both spanish and u.s, s.s. pensions in Spain and U.S, worldwide income??...I,ll let him know..thanks so much.


This is admittedly, NOT the IRS version of what he "should" do. But given the amounts involved, it's highly unlikely it will be questioned.


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

crisvic said:


> just read about form 8833. Says he never filed that form before, and wants to know if it is mandatory


In many cases where a treaty clause overrides tax treatment for an individual taxpayer you do not need to use Form 8833 as reporting is waived by regulation.
Basically the form is for controversial or ambiguous treaty claims, and reporting is waived for most standard treaty clauses.



26 CFR § 301.6114-1 - Treaty-based return positions(c) Reporting requirement waived.
....(iv) That a treaty reduces or modifies the taxation of income derived from dependent personal services, pensions, annuities, social security and other public pensions, or income derived by artistes, athletes, students, trainees or teachers;










26 CFR § 301.6114-1 - Treaty-based return positions.







www.law.cornell.edu


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## crisvic (Jan 25, 2020)

Moulard said:


> In many cases where a treaty clause overrides tax treatment for an individual taxpayer you do not need to use Form 8833 as reporting is waived by regulation.
> Basically the form is for controversial or ambiguous treaty claims, and reporting is waived for most standard treaty clauses.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


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