# Trying to decide where to go in Mexico



## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm a 60-something lady who is sick to death of struggling here in the U.S. and have decided to move to Mexico within the next 18 months.

I'm trying to decide where to live in Mexico. I love the beach, but I also love the tropics, so it all depends on a few factors of convenience for me. I have a small SS income and work part time online as a freelance writer, but don't make boodles of money. I hear there are places you can live like royalty on $1,000 a month, and I'd really like to find one of those places, as my after-taxes income right now ranges from $1200 to $1500 a month. I'm a horticulturist who also loves to garden and want to grow my own food, so I'd like to be somewhere that is possible. I don't drink, don't eat out much, and don't party. I'm frugal to the extreme.

I have a good friend in Ensenada who loves it, but looking at the rent prices there, it doesn't really seem that much cheaper than where I am in Florida. Of course, I live inland, not anywhere near the beach, so if I went inland there, I imagine the rents would be lower. She lives 50 yards from the beach and pays about $800 for a 3 br/ 1 ba house with a fenced in yard for her dogs. She says I can get a 1 BR close to her for around $450, but I saw one a little further inland (2 miles in from the beach) with gorgeous views that was 2 BR for $500. At that price, my main savings would be in food and utilities (my utilities here are ungodly for a 728 sf house!) I know Ensenada is one of the more expensive places to live, but it is convenient to the U.S. and has a good public transportation system. Living anywhere close to the beach here is twice as expensive as it is there, but do I want to spend most of my income just to live near a beach? 

My friend says the wine country further inland is cheaper and has more horticulture, but no beautiful ocean views. Still, beautiful views of vineyards may suffice. I hear Rosarita is cheaper, but maybe not as safe for a 60-something lady alone.

I have no car, so I really need to be somewhere that has public transportation and is relatively close to a border crossing so I can scoot over to shop from time to time. 

I'm not really picky about accommodations, but I have lupus, so I need sufficient heat and a/c. 

Any suggestions that I could check out would be appreciated.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Well, Angel; please keep inb mind thate Ensenada can be a foggy and coolish place right on the Pacific and subjecyt to the cold California Current. That cold current means that, as in California, the hot inland environments attract cold ocean breezes which is both good and bad.. Let´s take, for example, the Salinas Valley just off the coast of Monterey Bay - a cold and foggy place within environments largely controilled by the adjacent inland topography. As for the rest of Mexico south of the Northern Baja Peninsula, the beach áreas are normally warm and tropical in nature for a number of reasons but certainly because the cold California Current does not strongly influence the cllimate in seaside communities such as places like Ensenada Rosarito and other places strongly attracting disaffected Californians from unaffordable places such as deathly dull San Diego.

Everyone has a diffent idea as to where to nsettle in Mexico if they plan to retire here and we are Highland people living on yhe shores of Lake Chapala and the Chiapas Highlands around San Cristóbal de Las Casas but a few years ago we explored beachside communities in which to move in Mexico and, among those communities we explored, here are pour favorites in order of favor:
* The northern Gulf Coast of the Yucatán Peninsula between Puerto Progreso and Dzilam de Bravo.
* The Oaxaca Coast between the Chiapas state line and Puerto Escondido.
* The Chiapas Coast between Puerto Arista and the Guatemala border.
* The isolated and largely ungovernable southern Guerrero Coast from the Oaxaca Stateline to Acapulco.
* The Costa Maya from Tulum to Majuhual, Quintana Roo.

Some other places here and there but never Northern Baja between the California State Line and Ensenada but to each his own.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

Hound Dog said:


> Well, Angel; please keep inb mind thate Ensenada can be a foggy and coolish place right on the Pacific and subjecyt to the cold California Current. That cold current means that, as in California, the hot inland environments attract cold ocean breezes which is both good and bad.. Let´s take, for example, the Salinas Valley just off the coast of Monterey Bay - a cold and foggy place within environments largely controilled by the adjacent inland topography. As for the rest of Mexico south of the Northern Baja Peninsula, the beach áreas are normally warm and tropical in nature for a number of reasons but certainly because the cold California Current does not strongly influence the cllimate in seaside communities such as places like Ensenada Rosarito and other places strongly attracting disaffected Californians from unaffordable places such as deathly dull San Diego.
> 
> Everyone has a diffent idea as to where to nsettle in Mexico if they plan to retire here and we are Highland people living on yhe shores of Lake Chapala and the Chiapas Highlands around San Cristóbal de Las Casas but a few years ago we explored beachside communities in which to move in Mexico and, among those communities we explored, here are pour favorites in order of favor:
> * The northern Gulf Coast of the Yucatán Peninsula between Puerto Progreso and Dzilam de Bravo.
> ...


Thank you so much for your input, Hound Dog. I was aware that Ensenada can get chilly, as I read that if you move there to find a place with a fireplace or propane heat. Actually, being in N. Central Florida, it would probably be easier to migrate across the Gulf to the East Coast of Mexico, and I know what the Gulf coast is like, since I live on it for 14 years. 

I don't want "isolated and largely ungovernable," because, like I said, I need to be able to get to the U.S. now and then. 

Do you know, is there boat transportation from the east coast to TX or some other US state that is reliable and affordable? Transportation is a big selling point for me, not having a vehicle.


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## kgryfon (Mar 27, 2015)

You might look at some of the villages around Puerto Vallarta. Good public transportation and it's the jungle so the gardening would amazing! Cheap rent AND close to the beach.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Angelpie99 said:


> I hear there are places you can live like royalty on $1,000 a month, and I'd really like to find one of those places,...


This is a common misconception some foreigners have about living in Mexico in a place that is desirable. It really is not that cheap to live well in Mexico and $1,000 US per month in many instances will give you a moderate middle class lifestyle but in my view not much more unless you have a special deal on rent or own a place outright. Owning a place does help but renting can bring down your available cash to a level even where a middle class lifestyle might not work well as you might have to live in a noisy working class área. If renting in a solid middle class área in cities it can be quite a bit more for the same sq. footage.

To live like "royality" a single person would need available about 6 to 20 times that amount depending on what living like royality means.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

AlanMexicali said:


> This is a common misconception some foreigners have about living in Mexico in a place that is desirable. It really is not that cheap to live well in Mexico and $1,000 US per month in many instances will give you a moderate middle class lifestyle but in my view not much more unless you have a special deal on rent or own a place outright. Owning a place does help but renting can bring down your available cash to a level even where a middle class lifestyle might not work well as you might have to live in a noisy working class área. If renting in a solid middle class área in cities it can be quite a bit more for the same sq. footage.
> 
> To live like "royality" a single person would need available about 6 to 20 times that amount depending on what living like royality means.


I don't need much to live. I've been basically poor all my life and live very frugally, so a decent place to live close to the beach and cheap local food would make me feel like a queen . $1,000 here in FL gets you a trashy house in the hood next door to drug dealers who party all night long. I can no longer live this way. A small casita in a quiet village with plenty of flowers would be heaven to me.

I once owned a house, a car, had a decent job. Lost all that between 2008 and 2010, and have been trying to find a place to live decently on what I bring in from my meager SS check and what I earn as a freelance writer every since. I have no desire to own a house in Mexico. I just want to be able to live decently on what I clear every month, which is between $1200 & $1500. 

Trust me, middle class would be moving up from where I am now.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

kgryfon said:


> You might look at some of the villages around Puerto Vallarta. Good public transportation and it's the jungle so the gardening would amazing! Cheap rent AND close to the beach.


Thanks, but I don't want to be that far from the states if I can help it.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

AlanMexicali said:


> This is a common misconception some foreigners have about living in Mexico in a place that is desirable. It really is not that cheap to live well in Mexico and $1,000 US per month in many instances will give you a moderate middle class lifestyle but in my view not much more unless you have a special deal on rent or own a place outright. Owning a place does help but renting can bring down your available cash to a level even where a middle class lifestyle might not work well as you might have to live in a noisy working class área. If renting in a solid middle class área in cities it can be quite a bit more for the same sq. footage.
> 
> To live like "royality" a single person would need available about 6 to 20 times that amount depending on what living like royality means.


I don't know about royalty but my wife and I live as well a life as we could ever hope for - certainly as well as we had in the US - on about $3K USD per month. We own our house and installed PV panels. We have a good sized pool/spa. Some months more, some months less. I mow the lawn and clean the pool myself. My wife does the cleaning. We would never have a maid or driver - even though we could afford it. In the US our average spending was 2 to 3 times what we are spending here.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

cuerna1 said:


> I don't know about royalty but my wife and I live as well a life as we could ever hope for - certainly as well as we had in the US - on about $3K USD per month. We own our house and installed PV panels. We have a good sized pool/spa. Some months more, some months less. I mow the lawn and clean the pool myself. My wife does the cleaning. We would never have a maid or driver - even though we could afford it. In the US our average spending was 2 to 3 times what we are spending here.


The good thing is knowing that if you ever do need a maid or driver, you could afford it. One day I hope to be earning more, but right now, I just want to live a decent, peaceful life somewhere that isn't so politically driven. Florida hates poor people. It passes laws against us all the time. I could not even vote in the last election because of all the costly paperwork I would have needed JUST TO CHANGE THE ADDRESS ON MY VOTER REGISTRATION! They routinely sweep the streets, mow the right-of-ways and trim the trees in the better section of town, but they won't even come near our part of town unless someone forces them to. I've been trying to get the utility company to trim the trees growing up into the power lines for almost a year. When I was living in another section of town, they were there in two days. Nobody will do anything for us down here. They treat us like we are all drug dealers and thugs, which we aren't. They just toss the good out with the bad. They keep pushing the poor further and further out and making it more and more difficult for us. Until the Save-a-lot opened a mile from my house, this was a food desert. If they have their way, they will tear down this entire neighborhood and build 4/4 dormitory-like apartments for rich University of Florida students. 

I hate Florida. I've been here since 1996 and it gets worse every year. I just want out and I can't afford to live anywhere that is any better in the U.S., so Mexico it is.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Angelpie99 said:


> The good thing is knowing that if you ever do need a maid or driver, you could afford it. One day I hope to be earning more, but right now, I just want to live a decent, peaceful life somewhere that isn't so politically driven. Florida hates poor people. It passes laws against us all the time. I could not even vote in the last election because of all the costly paperwork I would have needed JUST TO CHANGE THE ADDRESS ON MY VOTER REGISTRATION! They routinely sweep the streets, mow the right-of-ways and trim the trees in the better section of town, but they won't even come near our part of town unless someone forces them to. I've been trying to get the utility company to trim the trees growing up into the power lines for almost a year. When I was living in another section of town, they were there in two days. Nobody will do anything for us down here. They treat us like we are all drug dealers and thugs, which we aren't. They just toss the good out with the bad. They keep pushing the poor further and further out and making it more and more difficult for us. Until the Save-a-lot opened a mile from my house, this was a food desert. If they have their way, they will tear down this entire neighborhood and build 4/4 dormitory-like apartments for rich University of Florida students.
> 
> I hate Florida. I've been here since 1996 and it gets worse every year. I just want out and I can't afford to live anywhere that is any better in the U.S., so Mexico it is.


If you add them all up I have lived in Florida for maybe 35 years over several lifetimes. I have seen the good and the bad. I was once so poor I couldn't afford to go to the doctor. For us Florida was like living in someone else's vacation-land. People travel from all over the world to visit what we called home every day of the year.

Horticulture can be tough. Not much money unless you are an owner, or get very lucky. But you can meet some really genuinely nice people. At one point in my (rather interesting) life I found myself in Apopka working as a grower for one of the world's largest nurseries. Some rather interesting doors were opened for me. Have you been to the Apopka area ? You won't make a fortune working for someone else - but it can be very affordable to live there.


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

If you want to be at the beach, in a large city, close to US. It is reasonably safe, has large Expat community. Locals are good to Gringos, Have spent a lot of time there in my life. May consider retiring there, just got back to Canada after 5 months in Maz. Looking at other options, am trying to find Expats who have intimate knowledge of Tepic area, RBL


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

An idle question: do the Mexican residents of Mazatlan call it "Maz" or is that something that only expats and visitors do? Is it akin to calling San Francisco "Frisco". Just wondering . . .


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

Some local residents with good English refer to the city as Maz. I just do it , like others, because I am to lazy to type Mazatlan. It it used much i the same way as Gringos and locals refer to Puerto Vallarta as PV. Though many locals refer to PV as Vallarta. Also in these communities, being referred to as a ****** or ****** is not usually meant to be derogatory. RBL


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Rod L. said:


> Some local residents with good English refer to the city as Maz.


Why would they do that? Trying to be "cool" by aping the gringos - could that be the reason?


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

I don't think there is much thought to it As I mentioned it is not meant in a malicious manner and is an easy way for locals to refer to , mostly, Canadians and Americans as Gringas or Gringos. It is not meant offensively and it is not taken offensively by the mass majority of Expats, snowbirds or Visitors. Can't really explain why, never occurred to me , as it has never concerned me as I often refer to people such as myself as gringos when hanging out with local friends. RBL


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Rod L. said:


> I don't think there is much thought to it As I mentioned it is not meant in a malicious manner and is an easy way for locals to refer to , mostly, Canadians and Americans as Gringas or Gringos. It is not meant offensively and it is not taken offensively by the mass majority of Expats, snowbirds or Visitors. Can't really explain why, never occurred to me , as it has never concerned me as I often refer to people such as myself as gringos when hanging out with local friends. RBL


That's not what I was referring to. I was asking if Mexican residents of Mazatlán were trying to look "cool" by imitating the way gringos and gringas refer to their city by using "Maz" instead of "Mazatlán". By the way, as far as I know, natives of San Francisco turn up their noses at visitors to their fair city who call it "Frisco".


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

Personally, I have only been to Frisco 4 or 5 times in my life, usually to watch NFL and my wife likes it there. Cannot recall, how we referred to area. I have no idea why some locals refer to Maz as Maz? Probably a lot don't. Possibly because Mazatlan is a mouthful and people are lazy by nature, language and phrases have changed considerably over time, I am not an expert in these or any other matters. Best regards, can't answer your question.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

Wow. I just received a very nasty PM from someone slamming me because I could not live comfortably on $1200 a month here. Unless you know someone and know their situation, I'd like to say it is very rude to judge them.

Yes, you can live on $1200 here where I am, but you will have nothing left over for anything else, including medical care or travel, and you certainly can't live close to a beach for that. With bad credit, you can't even get housing in a decent part of town. I have a chronic illness (lupus) and I can't even afford to go to a doctor or dentist. I have to treat myself with herbs and supplements. I can't afford entertainment, and I can't afford to even go visit my children. 

Why on earth would anyone choose to live like that when they can go a few hundred miles to Mexico and live quite a bit better? 

Granted, most of you have been great, but why are so many people trying to talk me OUT OF coming to Mexico? I'm just not understanding this attitude. I know what the cost of living is in some parts of the country, because I know people who live there and what they earn and spend. I'm not looking for luxury living. I'm just looking not to have to earn 4x the rent and have perfect credit to get any kind of decent housing. Also, where I live, they even charge PET RENT. SERIOUSLY??? If I have a child, I don't pay more, but if I have a cat, I do? 

This isn't freedom to me. I'm stressed all the time wondering if I will be able to afford the utility bill this month. If I can live even a little bit better in Mexico, why not? It seems that expats with money just don't want those of us who don't have it to invade their little sanctuary. It's a lot like South Florida, honestly, which is what I'm trying to get away from.


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

Dear Angie, there are many Gringas & Gringos living in MaZ for U$ 1200. I must admit it is a frugal living but is definitely doable. RBL


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Angelpie, I know you don't want to live in Mexico City, but I live here on less than $1200 a month and have a much better life than I would have if I were still living in the States.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

Isla Verde said:


> Angelpie, I know you don't want to live in Mexico City, but I live here on less than $1200 a month and have a much better life than I would have if I were still living in the States.


I don't know where I want to live, actually. I was thinking of Ensenada because it is a straight shot down for my son, who lives in the PNW, and I have a friend who has been in Mexico for 5 years who could teach me the ropes. That doesn't mean I would stay there. I could start in Mexico City and branch out from there. I'd prefer to live in a smaller place, but I have to start somewhere, right?

Honestly, I'm going to put everything I own into storage and just move there, then decide where to go and what to do. I don't want to haul a container full of possessions over, then have to move it somewhere else. 

I want a place where I can immerse myself into the culture, and Mexico City just doesn't seem like it would be that kind of place, but never having been there, what do I know? 

I may just come over and travel around for a year or so, then decide. That would probably be best.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Angelpie99 said:


> I may just come over and travel around for a year or so, then decide. That would probably be best.


That would most certainly be the best. I was wondering though - why don't you consider going back to where ever you were before Florida ? Also - you might want to check with a Mexican consulate in Tampa (?) to make sure Mexico will accept you - just to make sure there are no surprises.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

Rod L. said:


> Dear Angie, there are many Gringas & Gringos living in MaZ for U$ 1200. I must admit it is a frugal living but is definitely doable. RBL


The thing is, I'm not restricted entirely to $1200 a month. I'm a freelance writer, so I can earn more if I want or need to. I'd just like to be in a place where I don't HAVE to earn more than that in a month to live if I don't want to.

I don't think I would know how NOT to be frugal! The thought of living close to the beach for less than what I pay here for a 1 BR apartment in North Central FL just sounds like heaven to me. When I was in SW FL, the cheapest place I could find close to the water was 5 miles away and it was $700 a month with no pets allowed. Even 2 miles from the water up in the hills with an ocean view for $500 a month is the stuff my dreams are made of.

I love tropical food, so eating local produce isn't even a stretch. I actually grow many tropical vegetables here in the summer, because they are the only ones that can take the heat. When I was in S. FL, I grew all kinds of tropical fruits, and actually prefer them to things like oranges and apples. I could probably live on mangos if it wouldn't eventually kill me. 

As for meat -- hardly ever eat anything but chicken anyway, so no problem there. Beans and rice is one of my favorite dishes. I even know how to make black bean brownies. 

I just feel a kinship to the laid-back lifestyle there. Being in strict survival mode here is slowly killing me. Stress is the worst thing for lupus. 

I've already studied Spanish for 2 years in HS, and got a course that is helping me brush up and learn more. I truly believe if you live in a country, you should learn the language. Isn't that one thing the anti-immigration people up here are complaining about, that immigrants don't learn English? I even thought about getting certified to teach ESL in Mexico, but I'd have to probably be in a large place to do that. 

Anyway, I'm rambling, and I need to go cook some biscuits. Thanks for listening. That PM upset me, so I need to bake to calm down.


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

cuerna1 said:


> That would most certainly be the best. I was wondering though - why don't you consider going back to where ever you were before Florida ? Also - you might want to check with a Mexican consulate in Tampa (?) to make sure Mexico will accept you - just to make sure there are no surprises.


Why would they not accept me with a visitor visa? I don't intend to apply for a temporary residency visa right away. I might get there and hate it.

I would never go back to my home state. It is full of racists and hatemongers. I left there to get away from that, and FL was great for a long time, but now it's more and more like the place I ran away from. 

And why are you trying to talk me out of moving to Mexico, saying they would not "accept" me? What is unacceptable about me anyway? 

Never mind. Don't even answer that.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Angelpie99 said:


> Why would they not accept me with a visitor visa? I don't intend to apply for a temporary residency visa right away. I might get there and hate it.
> 
> I would never go back to my home state. It is full of racists and hatemongers. I left there to get away from that, and FL was great for a long time, but now it's more and more like the place I ran away from.
> 
> ...


Seems to me that some of the things you have a problem with in life may not be addressed by a move across a border. As for the consulate - I simply mention it in the event you didn't want to live in Mexico on a tourist visa. Good luck - over and out.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

I think cuerna1 was referring to the income requirements for a residency visa. If you didn't have the proof of income to qualify for a residency visa, you would have to stay on 180-day-maximum tourist permits and do border runs twice a year. The income requirements aren't super-high, but they are higher than needed for a frugal lifestyle in a cheap town.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Those border runs can get expensive, and they do not have to let you return, nor give you 180 days each time. It is entirely up to the border agent each time. It would be much better to have a residence visa, if you can manage it; or wait until you can.


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

have never had an issue getting a 180 day tourist visa, qutie often stating that that I was only coming for 2 weeks or whatever & the official still issuing 180 days. I may be wrong but last time I checked , if you can prove U$ 1200/mo, that is more than enough for a temporal or however it is termed. Also, I thought it unusual, presumptuous & rude of that other poster to refer to your personal issues and your motives for moving to mexico.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Here are the minimum income requirements, at least according to the Mexican government websites where I found this information. Anyone who can correct or update this, please post.

(A) and (B) refer to different parts of Mexico termed "Zone A" and "Zone B". To see which parts of Mexico are Zone A and which are Zone B, see this web page.

Temporary resident applicant: prove you have had either at least 1,402,000(A)/1,329,000(B) pesos in your bank account over the last 12 months, OR that you have received a monthly income of at least 28,040(A)/26,580(B) pesos per month for the last 6 months.

Permanent resident applicant: prove you have had either at least 1,752,500(A)/1,661,250(B) pesos in your bank account over the last 12 months, OR that you have received a monthly income of at least 35,050(A)/33,225(B) pesos per month for the last 6 months.

In the case of monthly income, this of course has to be an income that will continue when you are living in Mexico, such as a pension or investment income.


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

Thanks for the correct info


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## Angelpie99 (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm going to come in on a visitor visa for 6 months, and if I like it o.k., I'll give it another 6 months, then decide what to do. It wouldn't take much more for me to meet that monthly income requirement. I'm a freelancer, so I only work as much as I need to. If I need to make $2,000 for 6 months to get a residency visa, then I will. 

I know at least 3 people who have been in Mexico for over 5 years who are still doing border runs and never have a problem. The only one I know who has had a problem is one person who didn't pay his U.S. income taxes, and they flagged his passport. I don't intend to hide out down there to avoid taxes, so I think I'm good.

I'm not planning to come tomorrow, anyway. It will be at least 18 months to 2 years before I am ready to make that big a change, so maybe I should just stay off of forums and deal with it then, since so many people are trying to discourage me.

I know a lot of people used to an upper-middle class lifestyle cannot understand those of us who choose to live simpler lives, but please don't deride us for not being like you. My ideal situation would be to live in a small 1 BR casita with a little yard for gardening, somewhere within biking distance to a beach. There may be no place like that, I don't know.

Anyway, I'm beginning to feel very unwelcome here, and my feelings are being hurt too much, so adios!


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## Rod L. (Apr 5, 2015)

Don't give up on this forum already, there is a lot of experience here. It sounds like you have some time to do some research. You will not have trouble getting 180 day visas while you sort it out. I am also new on this forum. I have been travelling to almost everywhere in Mexico for over 35 years, I think Maz would be a good place for you to consider, you can rent economically there. There are countless other places. As I am, also , trying to sort out a retirement location, I find it very useful to draw knowledge & information from many kind, intelligent, helpful & experienced people . Ignore the rest, Happy Semana Santa to all. RBL


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

I should add this to the income requirements that I posted in #29 in the previous page: these income or investment requirements are for people who are applying to immigrate to Mexico as a _rentista_ – a person bringing their income with them – like a pensioner, for instance. 

Someone who is going to work and be paid in Mexico is a different case – they don't prove they have income; instead, they prove that they have a firm offer of employment – the employer also has to submit papers with the person's visa application.


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