# USA citizen buying a house



## Adventure Barbie

How difficult is it for a US citizen to buy? How can I stay longer than 3 months? Need help. Thanks


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## canoeman

All you need to purchase is a NIF (tax number) as an American and Not? living in the EU or EEA then you will also reguire a Fiscal Representative, you are not required to be a Resident for either.

How can you stay longer than 3 months only 2 ways really you can ask for an extension to a Schegen Visa or apply for permanent Residence

The other options are employment and work permit or Golden Residence Scheme or Non Habitual Residence Status


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## Adventure Barbie

Thanks! appreciate the help.


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## travelling-man

I have no connection (commercial or otherwise) with the guy but if it'll help, I have come across a guy in Lisbon who speaks fluent English and specialises in advising on things like habitual residency & golden visa scheme etc. 

PM me if you need his contact details.


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## Adventure Barbie

*PM*

New to the site how do I do that?


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## canoeman

You need to make at least 2 more posts then if you put your cursor on the button next to travelling man's name it'll show you an option to send a private message click on that


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## grammymissy

We are Americans in the process of obtaining a Resident VISA for Portugal, and house hunting in Portugal. If we can be of any assistance just ask😀


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## Adventure Barbie

*House hunting*

Thanks for the reply. Sounds as though you are in Portugal at the moment...if not I would give me a call in Maine and we could talk about the different requirements. Where does one begin? Can the process be started in Portugal or do I have to that here at an embassy? What area are you looking in?
I will be arriving in Portugal on the 17th of October. my best, Barbara


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## Adventure Barbie

I don't see an options for a pm.


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## grammymissy

We are currently in the state of Pennsylvania, packing up our house, that we have now sold. For the state of Pennsylvania,


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## canoeman

Applying for residence starts at any Portuguese Consulate in the States not whilst in Portugal. 

Information on Visa requirements Visas

information on Residency Visa Residency Visa


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## grammymissy

For the state of PA, we work with the Newark NJ Portugal Embassy. I looked up the state of Maine, and that state is the Boston MASS Portugal Embassy. That is where you would contact for VISA requirements for you.


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## grammymissy

As americans, we can stay in Portugal up to 90 days without a VISA. Schengen VISA is applied for here in US to visit for 4 months to apply for temporary residency, once there. 4 month VISA then 1 year residency, then 2 year residency, then 5 year residency and then permanent residency is our understanding. Once our VISA is approved we can move over to live. Can buy house without VISA! But we want to live there year round, so VISA Residency is needed.


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## grammymissy

We are looking for a house in Central Portugal, the Tomar area, we love the countryside and the Castelo de Bode lake, just beautiful!


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## canoeman

The Initial Residency Visa should be applied for from USA, once granted and move made then further continuation Residency Visa can be applied for in Portugal and when reguired number of years completed then Portuguese Citizenship/Nationality can be applied for if decided on.

I do not believe that you can enter on a Schengen Visa and then apply for a Residency Visa


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## grammymissy

Actually it is the Schengen VISA form that we have been given by the Newark NJ embassy to submit.


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## grammymissy

Along with a long list of documents to submit with it, not to mention the FBI criminal check we have to do first. We know it will be worth it


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## Adventure Barbie

Thanks for all the info. I will digest it in the morning. I leave the middle of October so probably not enough time for the special visa, but I will call the embassy in Boston Monday morn. Barbara


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## canoeman

grammymissy said:


> Actually it is the Schengen VISA form that we have been given by the Newark NJ embassy to submit.


Which is not the Residency Certificate/Application maybe checking with Consulate for Residency you need a Type 1 Visa
Residency Visa


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## travelling-man

If you do come in on a Schengen visa, it's highly unlikely they'll extend it without you at least having t return to the US to do it. 

I know of 3 examples where on 2 of those examples, the applicant had to return to their home country and not return to Portugal for 6 months and on the 3rd example, they did allow her to stay longer but only because her home country was Liberia which currently has an outbreak of ebola. 

Better to try to get the correct visa before coming if at all possible.


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## travelling-man

I'll add that if you do come in as a permanent resident/new immigrant, you should consider shipping your (LHD) car over with you. 

You'll need to meet the normal criteria such as having owned it for at least a year etc but if you can do that and import it tax free it's a big saving compared to buying one here.


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## Adventure Barbie

I hope to live car free! I have lived in the countryside and now need more of a city experience without the expense of a car.


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## Adventure Barbie

I have never been to Portugal so this trip should just be a look around trip. I have done a lot of travelling over the years but just never there. I am a thrifty traveler with a backpack, trains and busses. I can't come back to Maine until the weather warms up a bit so will have to figure out places to spend my time. The past 15 years I have been renovating houses, selling and then finding another. I need a break from that for awhile . As I had a lot of frequent flyer miles I decided to use them. Your info is great and I plan to head north once I arrive. Tomar is on my list of places to see. Maybe we could have a coffee. Barbara


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## travelling-man

Barbara:

My wife and I are close to Figueiro Dos Vinhos so not too far from the (beautiful) Tomar so if you do get this way, then a coffee and cake is always a very good idea!


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## grammymissy

I have been in contact with the Portugal Embassy in Newark NJ, multiple times with questions, and have not questioned the validity of their responses. The packet I was sent for a type 1 VISA, contains a Schengen VISA form and a list of documents to submit with it. It is valid for 4 months, we then apply for temporary residence within the 4 month period, on arrival in Portugal. This is what the embassy has instructed us is the procedure for a U.S. Citizen to move to Portugal as retired persons. I will now contact them again on Monday explaining that members of a expat board have stated I have been given the wrong form by them for my application, and ask them for the correct form. I will follow up on this board with their response. Thank you


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## canoeman

Suggest you look at the SEF information, the Government Ministry responsible for immigration, visitors etc
Prorrogação de visto uniforme e de permanência
and
Concessão de AR, cartão azul UE e estatuto de residente de longa duração

You'll note there is a difference between a Schengen Visa and extension to a Residence Visa, my understanding is that a Schengen Visa & Extension cannot be turned into a Residence Visa and if your intention is to relocate to Portugal rather than just an extended stay within Schengen Countries then that application must be made prior to travel.

Maybe this is a change on procedure but certainly news and new procedures


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## grammymissy

As I stated, since we are working directly with the Portugal Embassy in Newark NJ, we will verify with them. Also I did look at the website and there are several items that are on our list of requested documentation, supplied by the embassy, that are not noted on this website. Also, the Schengen Visa is issued for three months, that is not what we are applying for, the type 1 VISA is issued for 4 months and an extension is not applied for, we then apply for 1 year temporary residency, after arrival. It appears that is just the form they use for application for the type 1 VISA. I did contact the American couple that retired to Portugal 2 years ago, via the same procedure we are being told, same embassy. And they said it was the Schengen form they filled out to get type 1 VISA. They have now lived in Portugal 2 years. We will not be arriving in Portugal until we receive our Type 1 VISA be assured. . I will also post the response I get from the Embassy, I would not want to mislead anyone on what a USA citizen who is looking to retire in Portugal needs to do for a type 1 VISA.


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## bom dia lisbon

Although it is true that we do not apply for a Schengen Visa, I do recall filling out that very form and sending it to the embassy two years ago. I suppose they use that form for a variety or purposes. All worked out for me.


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## Adventure Barbie

I sounds as though the vis wasn't really necessary, was it? Have you bought a place in Lisbon? What was the next step after getting the visa? Barbara


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## Adventure Barbie

All sounds very confusing!!! Hopefully some one has done this before so you don,t have to reinvent the wheel! Granny missy pleas let me know when you feel as though you have the correct info. You are still in the US? Barbara


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## grammymissy

Per the Newark NJ Portugal Embassy, I have the correct information. The correct procedure is to move to Portugal with Type 1 VISA for USA citizens. Barbara you should contact the Boston Portugal Embassy so they can send you the application and list of required documents for a Type 1 VISA. A criminal check needs to be done, that at this time is taking 8-10 weeks. The type 1 VISA is good for 4 months. Once you have moved to Portugal, you then apply for residency there. Your first temporary residency is good for 1 year. My husband and I are double checking that we are doing everything correctly, we plan to buy a house and do not want to be in Portugal illegally. Unfortunately, how European Union members and how USA citizens apply to move to Portugal is not the same, and the majority of information online is for European Union members, example British and French. We are house hunting in December, we hope to move over in March. We are planning 8 weeks for FBI criminal check, 4 weeks for VISA processing. I am sure if you contact the Boston MASS Portugal Embassy today they will email everything you need.


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## grammymissy

Barbara, we have new and great friends, who moved two years ago to Tomar, they have been giving us guidance. They too found it frustrating that most information on moving to Portugal is for European Union members, which The USA is not. We stayed in Portugal for 10 weeks this past summer, may-july and loved it! USA citizens can stay 90 days without a VISA. But, as stated, we are supposed to return to USA after 90 days, not try to extend from within the country to stay longer. I have read of Americans who moved over without the VISA and applied for residency there, and succeeded but I do not want to be the one that try's it that way and fails .


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## bom dia lisbon

Having personally been through it, I can attest to the procedure outlined by grammymissy. 

Most definitely procure your residency visa prior to relocating here.


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## Adventure Barbie

Thanks for your help.


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## Adventure Barbie

Thanks for the great info. I leave mid October so this trip will be a look around one. When I return I can start the process. I just sold a house in Delaware and still need to close on one in Maine. Right now I am in a seasonal "camp" on a lake in western Maine, the leaves are really pretty this year! I will be back when it warms up the end of May. So I have Spain and Croatia on my list as 90 days per country seems to be the rule. I have been to Croatia several times and love it. Bet of luck doing the paperwork. Please keep me posted on your progress. Barbara


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## canoeman

Maybe re read rules on Schehgen Visa's stays are valid within the Schengen Countries for a max period of 90 days in any 180 day period, moving from one Schengen Country to another does not restart the 90 day period to day 1 

Croatia like UK is not a member of Schengen area and therefore don't count but you will reguire a separate Visa to visit Croatia 

The information for USA Citizens requesting Permanent Residency in Portugal is there but certainly not as clearly presented as it should be


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## Adventure Barbie

I have been to Croatia several times and never needed a visa. This year will be a fact finding mission I have decided as I have never been to Portugal. Looking forward to my visit, Barbara


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## grammymissy

Barbara, I have never been to Maine, but have seen pictures, have always thought it looked beautiful, enjoy the fall foliage until your trip! Sounds like you have a great fact finding trip planned, enjoy! If Portugal ends up your choice, I should be living in Portugal by April 1, if you have any questions with VISA or residency questions let me know, also would love to meet up in Tomar. Best Wishes. Melissa


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## Adventure Barbie

Thanks for your advise. Best of luck with the paper work. I will most likely be in Spain in April but will be very interested to know how everything went. I believe you said you were in PA. I know the Doylestown area quite well as my cousins are there, but the rest of it has been just a drive through. My best, Barbara


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## Adventure Barbie

I just might take you up on that...thanks. Barbara


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## grammymissy

We were issued our Type 1 Residency VISA today! Applied at the Newark NJ Portugal Embassy on Feb 4. We applied with the Schengen Form they sent us, proof of income, proof of house purchase, proof of purchase of health insurance in Portugal, proof of tax number, proof of bank account in Portugal, and handwritten letter of why we want to move to Portugal, everything that was on list they sent us. We now have a 4 month VISA to move to portugal to apply for a residency permit at the local SEF office. 
Already confirmed with someone who applied at the Washington DC Portugal Embassy, their list was slightly different, they did not need housing, they did need marriage license. Even the Portugal Embassy's have different rules, different Embassies. Now, SEF office is next........


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## Kathrynj

Thank you so much for posting a follow up. I have been reading on this forum for a few months and yours is the first post I have read that gave such good details.
I will travel to Portugal in May for a scouting trip and hope to apply for visa upon my return.
I have been procrastinating calling the Embassy in DC. I'm curious as to how easy your contact was with the Embassy. I've read other posts about not being able to get someone on the phone or responses to emails....
Thanks for any additional input.


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## grammymissy

Kathrynj. I was just face booking with someone who applied at the Washington DC Portugal Embassy and said it has gone well. They emailed them and got the Schergen


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## grammymissy

Oops... Schengen form and list of requirements. Also they said that the Washington DC embassy let them use a FBI channeler for their criminal background check and they got that in three days. The Newark NJ embassy said we had to get direct from FBI, took 16 and. Half weeks. Definitely email them and get list. Our ViSA processed in just under 3 weeks. Any further questions ask away, I am happy to help. Non EU infor is hard to find.


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## windwalker

grammymissy said:


> We are Americans in the process of obtaining a Resident VISA for Portugal, and house hunting in Portugal. If we can be of any assistance just ask😀


I would like to know the requirements for a resident visa for retirees from the US to Portugal. I couldn't find it on the embassy website. Are they online somewhere?


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## grammymissy

Wind walker, you need to contact the Portugal Embassy for the state you live in. For example, I lived in Pennsylvania, so I had to apply to Newark NJ Portugal Embassy. I emailed them and they sent me a list and forms. What state do you live in and we can look up which embassy you need to contact?


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## grammymissy

Wind walker, I see your located in Arizona per your profile, so then you need to contact Portugal Embassy in San Francisco California. If you go to their website, there is an email address and you can email them for lists and forms. 🌻.


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## Kathrynj

Thanks grammymissy.
I have another question about the 4 month visa. Does the 4 months start when you receive the visa or when you arrive in Portugal?
I have already sent in my FBI background check request and hope to apply for the visa in June. However, I don't retire until September 1 and likely can't get everything ready to move until October. I'm wondering if I should wait before applying for the visa - at least if the 4 months start from the date it is issued.
Any thoughts?


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## grammymissy

Kathryn if I were you I would ask the Washington Embassy how long the FBI is good for, the Newark Embassy said that the FBI report had to be issued within the last 90 days before submitting for VISA. It is my understanding the VISA is good for 4 months from issue date. Do you have the list from the Embassy, it should say on that about age of FBI report. We fly March 15, can't wait.


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## danibracara

grammymissy said:


> Now, SEF office is next........



Hi grammymissy,

Thank you so much for you very detailed post. Do you know what will SEF (in Portugal) require from you?

Thank you very much for your help!!


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## grammymissy

Danibracara, this website contais details for SEF. http://www.imigrante.pt/PagesEN/DocumentosNecessarios/ConcessaoAR/01Art77N1.aspx
Happy to help. We now have our documents and are just waiting for our shipper to pick up next week and then we fly to our new home in the sun.


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## grammymissy

Kathrynnj, the visa is definitely for 4 months from issue date put on by Embassy. . We were asked what date to issue.


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## danibracara

Hi grammymissy, thank you so much for your reply!!

Do you know that, coming to live in Portugal, and earning an American pension, you can be exempted from any kind of taxation, both in America and in Portugal? This is due to the new legislation to attract retirees from other countries.

Kind regards,

Daniel Lopes


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## grammymissy

Daniel Lopes, yes, you can apply to be exempt from tax in Portugal on your USA pension/Social Security. There is a tax treaty between the USA and Portugal. However, you are not exempt from USA taxes. Taxes still have to be paid for Federal taxes. Also, FBAR and FATCA if applicable have to be filed annually to the USA. .


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## danibracara

Yes , I was just double checking and you are absolutely right! The treaty between Portugal and USA is slightly different from the European treaties. In these cases, you would be taxed only in the country you are actually reside. So if you came from an European country, you would be taxed 0% by Portugal and your home country couldn't tax you. If you need any kind of help, please feel free to ask!


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## highlands1234

Grannymissy,

Thanks for all the info, non-eu expat info is indeed hard to find! We are wanting to retire with a permanent residency visa (type 1, then temp for 4 years (two renewals)) and then I believe we are eligible to apply for the permanent residency. We are not drawing on our SS yet, but have other income. Just curious what do they require for proof of income to get your type 1 and temp residency permit? Also, what insurance plan did you go with for over there? My understanding is we would be exempt from the ACA individual mandate if we are out of the country for 330 days a year, so we would just go with a local insurance over there.


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## grammymissy

Highlands1234, Type 1 Residency VISA from Newark NJ Portugal Embassy required a statement that we would buy health insurance within 90 days of arrival, and proof of pension in our case, but we could have applied with just savings and not shown pension. If you email the embassy that you are applying at, they will send you a list of what you need. List varies a bit between embassies. Type 1 VISA is good for 4 months, then you apply here at SEF for 1 year, and then two 2 year temp residency permits, for total of 5 years. Then, as non EU, as of right now, a simple language test can be taken and passed, allowing for permanent residency to be applied for, good for 5 year cards, reissued every 5 years. We did buy health insurance here, we purchased a plan from Multicare, full health, eye and dental, this plan if purchased before age 60, has no end date. If purchased after age 60, policy will end at age 70. This past week we exchanged our drivers licenses for Portugal drivers license, easy peasy, this needs to be done within 90 days of arrival. Currently it is our understanding, as non EU we can apply for citizenship after 10 years, the 5 years of temp and then 5 years of perm residency, if we choose. Hope this infor helps


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## highlands1234

Grammymissy,

Thanks so much for the info and quick reply! It does indeed help. Have you bought a car yet? I heard it can be difficult for a non-EU to buy a car and get it registered. Guess its easier once you have the temp residency? How complicated was it to buy the house? From your other post I have read it sounds like you love it over there. Just curious what finally sold you on Portugal? From my initial research, the cost of living, access to healthcare, and the fairly easy residency requirements made Portugal look attractive. We had been contemplating Italy as well, but have not looked into the residency requirements over there yet, did you ever look into Italy?

One last question (I promise!) speaking of residency and citizenship, some other EU countries we were looking at required you basically to be in the county like 50 weeks out of the year to establish residency, does Portugal have any requirements like that? Like if you wanted to go back to the states for a month or two, could you without jeopardizing your temp residency? 

Ok, a couple more questions I just thought of, is your pension and SS taxed by Portugal? Will it be when you get permanent residency or only if you apply for citizenship? Do you know when you would be eligible for the Portugal universal health care? As a permanent resident or not until you applied for citizenship?

Thanks for all the info!


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## grammymissy

Highlands 1234,
I am happy to help with questions, finding non EU answers to questions is not easy, I found, so happy to help. But, I want to emphasize that you should contact the Portugal Embassy you will be applying with for their list of requirements, I can only reference my experience with NJ Portugal Embassy and now Leiria SEF office, for residency rules and such.
First thing you will need is a fiscal number, similar to SS number in states, you can apply with a EU address if you have one, or have your Portugal lawyer obtain for you, when you find house you want to buy. The realtor can also sometimes help you obtain. Nothing is purchased in Portugal without it. Once you have that number, everything such as car, house and services for house can be purchased, similar to in the states. You do not need residency to buy, but you do need a fiscal number. 
We looked at the UK, no retirement VISA for US, then looked at France, nope and then Spain, nope, did not look at Italy.
Our only child, a daughter, is married and lives in the UK with our 3 grandchildren, we wanted to be closer to them, and at the same time, live somewhere we loved to live. Traveled to Portugal 3 times over 5 years, last time for 10 weeks, made decision to move here, went home and sold most, put rest on boat and came back to live, arrived March 16. 
Living here as your primary residence, more than 183 days a year is one of the residency rules, is our understanding. Which makes you a tax resident, yearly tax filing. But due to tax treaty with US, minimal taxes paid on SS and pensions and can be tax free for first ten years if non habitual tax status is applied for, our lawyer that we purchased house thru is processing our paperwork to submit for this, once we have been here 183 days. 
I did ask about travel rules, I hope to regularly travel to the UK for about a week, per month, at times, I was told that is fine. This is my primary residence, and tax residence. 
Healthcare, per our understanding can only be obtained with citizenship. But, because it is so inexpensive compared to the U.S., we don't see as an issue. We pay less than 1/2 in healthcare premiums, for complete health, dental and eye care, than we did for just healthcare in the U.S. We have found a general family doctor, private, just to avoid the larger offices. Have visited to sort out blood pressure meds, visits were 15 euros each, 4 months of blood pressure meds for both of us, 8 euros. If I can be of further help, ask away.


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## highlands1234

Grammymissy,

Once again thanks for taking the time to write these responses and for all the info, it is much appreciated. I will be contacting my local embassy soon to get the ball rolling on the type 1. Hopefully most of the requirements will be very similar to your experience, but i appreciate the disclaimer as I know it can vary embassy to embassy. Still it is very helpful to have a general idea of the process beforehand. 

Do you happen to know if there is a minimum age requirement to get the residency visa? I only ask because we would basically be going over there and retiring as it sounds like you did, and I read on another expat forum that excluding a pension or SS if you are not of that age, that they look at your savings and want to see 55,000 euro. We have quite a bit over that, but was curious if they would want you to be a certain age within a few years of your pension/SS or show more then 55,000 euro? That might be going into the weeds too much and will need to talk to the embassy i guess, but was just curious if you had heard anything about an age requirement for the residency visa. 

Did you get a lawyer prior to starting this whole process? I can understand wanting one for a house purchase, but would you recommend getting 1 for the type 1 application and the 1 year temp visa once over there? Did you get the fiscal number prior to going over there or after? It sounds like you bought the house prior to moving? We were thinking of renting initially to get a feel of the areas first then making the home purchase down the road. 

Once again thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions. At this point I dont think i could even ask anymore, so you are safe there, lol.


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## highlands1234

Did find this at the SEF website. but didnt really get anymore info from it

sef.pt/documentos/56/Act29_2012ofAugust9.pdf


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## grammymissy

Highlands1234,
The two things we have found different for type 1 residency VISA from Portugal Embassy are, ours needed FBI criminal background from FBI, 16 week wait at the time. We could not use a service, and either proof of house purchase or apartment rental. I have now spoken with other Americans, who applied at different embassies with hotel reservations only, and FBI report from service which takes two weeks. Oh well... We have not seen an age restriction, we are 53 and 57. They just need to see proof of funds, I did read somewhere that they look for more than 50,000 in savings, but have had several tell me they have been told much lower😜😜😜. We did not use a lawyer for anything but the house purchase, and we hired the lawyer that was recommended by realtor and new friends. We are now using that lawyer to file for the NHR tax status and to translate our wills to Portuguese, you will need your wills translated to avoid issues with probate, when that time comes. We used the list the embassy sent us to apply for type1 residency VISA, and list the SEF gave us to arrive for residency permit after we arrived. I do have several links I will try and message you, that we did find helpful. Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions, again, from being thru this I know the infor can be hard to find.


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## grammymissy

Highland1234, We obtained the fiscal number, during the 10 days we flew over to buy the house. If you have a EU address, you can obtain a fiscal number yourself, just go to local Finance Office, if you don't speak Portuguese, take someone who does, we asked the realtor, she helped us. If you don't have a EU address, lawyer can apply for you with law office address. You cannot rent an apartment or buy house/car here without a fiscal number. We have found all services here to be kind and helpful overall, the language barrier seems to be the only issue, but enough English spoken to get by if needed.


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