# Chiang Mai - Cost of living



## howie444

Hello

I have placed threads on here before and the answers were very helpful, thank you. 
I am over the next 2-3 yrs gaining as much information as possible before I hopefully retire to Chiang Mai. I will then be 51yrs old, male, single, no dependants. I have lived a fortunate existance in the UK, lovely home, well paid job, etc. However have visited Thailand approx 10times and so love the country. I am not a materialistic person so i envy the Thai way of life so much, compared to that in the UK, were everyone has to have a better car, home, job etc then everyone else, for what..this has never made me happy!

This isnt a new idea of mine, I have been planning on paper & in my head for a few years now, but am having difficulty to put an accurate figure on the cost of living. I am visiting again early 2013 for 1 month but this is too short a time to get this estimate, hense this thread!

I hope to rent a Condo for approx B15,000ish per month, eat Thai street food (love Thai food, hate most English food). I hope to spend my initial years learning the Thai language at a language school, I don't drink too much.

How much will I need, I have a figure of approx B45,000 per month after rent of Condo, but am reading a few threads that this isn't enough, and I can't see why......help please...many thanks!


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## cooked

I can't see why either. A Condo for ฿15 000 is much too expensive if you don't need luxury. You can get a house for ฿6000.-. Forget the guys that say that they need ฿100 000.- a month to live. However. I take it you know about visas? Retirement visa you need ฿65 000 a month.. Health insurance?
I myself have a good style of living + support a Thai wife, very well, with ฿45 000.- a month..
Many expats answer 'how much do I need to live in Thailand?' by saying how much they need to live in Bangkok, not the same thing.


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## stednick

*Get real details*



howie444 said:


> This isnt a new idea of mine, I have been planning on paper & in my head for a few years now, but am having difficulty to put an accurate figure on the cost of living. I am visiting again early 2013 for 1 month but this is too short a time to get this estimate, hense this thread!
> 
> How much will I need, I have a figure of approx B45,000 per month after rent of Condo, but am reading a few threads that this isn't enough, and I can't see why......help please...many thanks!


Howie:
The majority of information you find on this forum is generalized and typically is based on the poster's individual experience. All persons are individual. Your spending habits, personal preferences, required standard of living, and, situation are different from other posters. Therefore, your money requirements will be different.

In your shoes, what I would do, is from today until you visit Thailand in 2013, I would detail and itemize everything I bought and every living expense incurred. I would determine my actual monthly consumption of goods. I would then define a Thailand equivalency list of monthly living requirements.

When I (read you), visit Thailand in 2013 I would determine the actual cost of the monthly living requirements, in Chiang Mai. You now have a firm "accurate" cost-of-living in Chiang Mai based on your current spending habits and the cost-of-living in Chiang Mai during your 2013 visit.

After this you must prepare contingency to account for possible and expected shifts in exchange rates, inflation, and taxation. 

Don't forget medical insurance and care (infection/disease/accident). Emergency travel and an escape plan should the political climate change. 

Good luck.


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## godfree

*You'll be fine, but check this out*



cooked said:


> I can't see why either. A Condo for ฿15 000 is much too expensive if you don't need luxury. You can get a house for ฿6000.-. Forget the guys that say that they need ฿100 000.- a month to live. However. I take it you know about visas? Retirement visa you need ฿65 000 a month.. Health insurance?
> I myself have a good style of living + support a Thai wife, very well, with ฿45 000.- a month..
> Many expats answer 'how much do I need to live in Thailand?' by saying how much they need to live in Bangkok, not the same thing.


You're in good shape financially but, since you're a sensible person and this is a big step, check out these two sources, which have current Chiang Mai costs that will allow you to construct a detailed budget--right down to your Internet and cel phone monthly costs:
Home | Thailand Retirement Helpers
And this book from Amazon:
How to Retire in Thailand and Double Your Income (Retire in Paradise): Godfree Roberts: Amazon.com: Kindle Store

See you here!


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## howie444

*Thank you*

Just a big big thank you for the replies to my thread so far. Cooked, thank you for making me realise someone thinks the same as me, thought I had missed something somewere. Stednick, thank you for the advice on Englsh/Thai spending habits, will start that today. Godfree. thanks for the web link, never seen this link before, its now in my favourites, going to spend a while today looking through it and making more notes! to go along with the collection of notes, files, books and more files that one has accumalated over the last year or so!!

If there are anyone who reads this thread that has in the past on here stated that the cost of living in Chaing Mai is far above what I have allowed (B60,000) per month, (also I have a property still in the UK should I need to return, escape plan), could they list roughly where they get their figure from (ie: food, accomodation, health insurance, entertainment, other costs etc)...just in case I have missed something!

Many many thanks to you all

Howie


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## godfree

howie444 said:


> Just a big big thank you for the replies to my thread so far. Cooked, thank you for making me realise someone thinks the same as me, thought I had missed something somewere. Stednick, thank you for the advice on Englsh/Thai spending habits, will start that today. Godfree. thanks for the web link, never seen this link before, its now in my favourites, going to spend a while today looking through it and making more notes! to go along with the collection of notes, files, books and more files that one has accumalated over the last year or so!!
> 
> If there are anyone who reads this thread that has in the past on here stated that the cost of living in Chaing Mai is far above what I have allowed (B60,000) per month, (also I have a property still in the UK should I need to return, escape plan), could they list roughly where they get their figure from (ie: food, accomodation, health insurance, entertainment, other costs etc)...just in case I have missed something!
> 
> Many many thanks to you all
> 
> Howie


Howie,
If you're a member of any of the social networking groups, like Facebook, Twitter, or Google+, would you click on their icons at the very bottom of those web pages. Much obliged!


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## cooked

there is another link about Chiang Mai, to be taken with a pinch of salt, but some interesting information: Retire-on-550-month.com - retirement advice, accommodations, finding Thai girlfriend or wife and


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## TomC

howie444 said:


> Hello
> 
> I have placed threads on here before and the answers were very helpful, thank you.
> 
> 
> This isnt a new idea of mine, I have been planning on paper & in my head for a few years now, but am having difficulty to put an accurate figure on the cost of living. I am visiting again early 2013 for 1 month but this is too short a time to get this estimate, hense this thread!
> 
> I hope to rent a Condo for approx B15,000ish per month, eat Thai street food (love Thai food, hate most English food). I hope to spend my initial years learning the Thai language at a language school, I don't drink too much.
> 
> How much will I need, I have a figure of approx B45,000 per month after rent of Condo, but am reading a few threads that this isn't enough, and I can't see why......help please...many thanks!


Don't know what threads that you read and for what life style, but your numbers made no sense to me. A farang English teacher is expected to make about $1K USD or B30,000 per month. Are you saying you need twice that much to live on in CM? How much street foods do you plan to eat? You would explode before you can eat a fraction of that budget. Personally, I think the B60,000 baht must go to support a lot of drinking and the working girls. Otherwise, I don't see why anyone would need that much to live on anywhere in Thailand.


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## howie444

*Thanks again*

Thank you TomC, I really appreciate replies like this. I dont remember where the comments came from regarding needing more than B60000 per month.
I have and are continuing to obtain as much information as possible as I have been doing for the last few years, also will continue to spend at least 1hr a day for the next 2 years or so obtaining information. Also I plan to visit Thailand at least twice over the next 2 yrs for 1 and 3 months.

But it is the costs that seem to be so different from different people. I have done my sums and see no reason that I cant live a good life on B60000 per month in Chain Mai incl B15000 per month on renting a Condo. I wont be spending on working girls and dont drink a lot although 3-4 beers every evening would be nice.

Thanks again TomC, I keep think I am going wrong with my figures, and understand that with my 2 visits I will see this first hand, but reasuring threads like yours does help a confused guy like me to believe that he is doing his sums right.

Many thanks again

Howie


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## TomC

howie444 said:


> But it is the costs that seem to be so different from different people.
> 
> 
> Howie


My impression of reading ajarn dot com is that the starting salary for English teachers in BKK is about 30K baht and goes up from there. The figure that most often mentioned that they need to be comfortable is about 40K. That makes sense to me that your starting salary will be a little less than what it takes to be comfortable.

Salaries for teachers in CM were surprisingly low and seem to always be below 30K. My guess is that CM attracts the educators who prefer more Thai traditional culture, better weather and environ than BKK. With more competition comes the lower salaries. So my ballpark figure for CM would be 30-35K to be comfortable.

I heard that Thai office workers get about 10K baht. My Thai nephew said that he could live on 15K in BKK.

P.S. This does not include the health insurance cost which I assumed that the teachers would get through their employment. I have no idea since I've never worked in this field.


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## howie444

Thanks again TomC and Sirisak78. I am getting quotes from about 12 health Insurance companies ready for my departure in 2015. Even though I will be only 50yrs, I wont be working when in Thailand, my income will be generated from sale of business in England, also rent from properties I have. So have worked out will have approx B60000 per month to spend on accomodation (studio Combo), health insurance, food (street Thai food mostly), entertainmment (the odd beer) and other general costs and if I have each month any monies left, I will then save a little.

My planned existance will not be luxurious as this is the whole point, living very well in UK but bored, unhappy and as I said before I am not materialistic, the Thai way of life is something that will suit me far better than good old England!!I have visited Thailand I think now 10 times and will be visiting another 2 times hopefully before my retirement in just over 2 yrs time.

Thank you again for all your threads.

Howie


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## relax222

*chaing mai*

Hi
I love your post, I am also planning to vacate England in 2yrs time, and all that you have asked on this forum I am asking also. One thing I am also a little confused with is were is actually the most popular country for expats to retire to in south east asia...I presume it is thailand, but thought I would ask..thank you.


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## Mweiga

relax222 said:


> Hi
> I love your post, I am also planning to vacate England in 2yrs time, and all that you have asked on this forum I am asking also. One thing I am also a little confused with is were is actually the most popular country for expats to retire to in south east asia...I presume it is thailand, but thought I would ask..thank you.


For the past couple of decades Thailand has been top of the pops but in this time other SE Asia countries have been steadily developing and today provide very viable alternatives with certain advantages - especially less overcrowded and overdeveloped farang retiree destination plus lower living costs. In particular consider Laos and Cambodia. Malaysia has already been a quite popular destination for several years. Vietnam , for some , is also an attractive possibility.

I've been settled in Thailand for six years but if I was in your shoes with planned retirement two years away I'd seriously consider other SE Asian destinations. Before getting too fixed in your ideas plan a trip round all nine odd countries of the region , which is very easily done with excellent transport communications from virtually anywhere to anywhere , to evaluate all possibilities , Thailand included of course. A couple of months would do.

The other essential planning issue of living budget should also be carefully considered - the monthly THB 60,000 mentioned in this thread may be OK today (just) but the next few years can easily bring a further weakened GBP , increases in Thai prices , and it leaves nothing for the unexpected extra expenses which have a habit of appearing in a new and unfamiliar society very different from what you're used to.


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## stednick

*Cost of living*



howie444 said:


> Hello
> 
> I have placed threads on here before and the answers were very helpful, thank you.
> I am over the next 2-3 yrs gaining as much information as possible before I hopefully retire to Chiang Mai. I will then be 51yrs old, male, single, no dependants. I have lived a fortunate existance in the UK, lovely home, well paid job, etc. However have visited Thailand approx 10times and so love the country. I am not a materialistic person so i envy the Thai way of life so much, compared to that in the UK, were everyone has to have a better car, home, job etc then everyone else, for what..this has never made me happy!
> 
> This isnt a new idea of mine, I have been planning on paper & in my head for a few years now, but am having difficulty to put an accurate figure on the cost of living. I am visiting again early 2013 for 1 month but this is too short a time to get this estimate, hense this thread!
> 
> I hope to rent a Condo for approx B15,000ish per month, eat Thai street food (love Thai food, hate most English food). I hope to spend my initial years learning the Thai language at a language school, I don't drink too much.
> 
> How much will I need, I have a figure of approx B45,000 per month after rent of Condo, but am reading a few threads that this isn't enough, and I can't see why......help please...many thanks!



A simple, overlooked methodology of determining the "cost-of-living" in Thailand is to use the legal monetary stream required to meet the financial requirement of the Thailand "retirement" visa. The Thai government has determined that a "person" needs to have a 65,000 Bt/month income stream to retire in Thailand. 

The Thai government has determined that this is the amount of money you will need to live in Thailand. So, for budgetary analysis use this as the figure you will need to retire in Thailand. Yes, you can live on less. No, you cannot qualify for a retirement visa with less.

Simple and basic analysis statement. "If you can qualify for a retirement visa, you can afford to retire in Thailand."


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## howie444

Thanks Stednick

When you think about what you have said..makes sense really! Although I wasn't basing the retirement Visa requiremnent on having 65,000 Bt/month, I was using the alternative of having 800,000Bt in my bank account at all times., so that is probably why I overlooked this.

But yes I do agree with you, the Thai authorities will have worked out that you need 65,000Bt/month to live a comfortable life.

Why did I not think of this (as you say) overlooked methology!!

Thank you

Howie


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## TomC

stednick said:


> The Thai government has determined that a "person" needs to have a 65,000 Bt/month income stream to retire in Thailand.


What do you expect the gov to say? 30K baht and get a bunch of borderline deadbeat farangs who might be looking for work? Of course, they're going to quote the high end to make the visa requirements. The gov also likes to empty out farangs' pockets of at least 65K baht a month, as it's good for the economy. And if it takes working girls to do it, so be it. Everyone will look the other way. But trust me, in the back of their minds, they like it that the girls are taking care of the poor families back home. Taking care of family is very important in this culture.

As it has been discussed, the cost of living varies with individual and life style. A Thai office worker gets about 10K baht a month and can live on that. My Thai nephew said that he can live on 15K in BKK. An English teacher needs about 40K to comfortably live in BKK and 30K outside of BKK.


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## stednick

TomC said:


> What do you expect the gov to say?


Tom:

I always consider the source before I decide on what to do with the information.

None the less, I'll respond; my statement stands on it's own. 

*"If you can qualify for a retirement visa, you can afford to retire in Thailand."*


As far as "What do you expect the gov to say?" 

In consideration of the competition, other countries that are actively pursuing Foreign retirees, I "expect the gov" to require lesser funds to secure a one year retirement visa. I also "expect the gov" would have less stringent check-in requirements. However, the law is the law. It is established, it is written, and it is enforced. Many foreign retirees have been put-off by the difficulty, complexity and uncertainty of the Thai legal regimen and selected more retiree friendly venues. 

So be it. 

Although they may, I do not "expect" the Thai government to make the retirement visa requirements any easier in the near future.


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## KNJ

Everyday living 30-45 000 is more than posible, BUT do not forget any initial set up costs:
Furniture, kitchen equipment car or motorbike etc.
Then there are running costs which need to be considered over a year:
Holidays
Car/Bike insurance
Health insurance
House insurance
Car/bike maintenance and fuel
Depreciation of car/bike
Clothes
Cost of pastimes/sports - golf, ( loss of 100 balls a year ) fishing ( averge cost per kilo of fish in fridge is in my case about 150 USD ) etc can work out a lot over a year
Cost in home country, - house rental management fees, tax on income, house insurance etc


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## Song_Si

^ good list - but no fisherman should ever admit the real cost of the fish!!!

*if* a person can get by without buying a car - that has to be the biggest single drain on finances, and loss when it comes to resale.


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## Song_Si

motorbike expenses - my experience

have just clicked over 30,000km on a Yamaha Fino, since November 2009.

never had a breakdown (apart from punctures entailing a short walk)
on third set of tyres - approx 1000 baht/pair
one headlight bulb - I think 100 baht
replaced drive belt and nylon bushes in there somewhere - 600 & 300 baht
at a guess, maybe 15 punctures, new tube each time 150-200 baht
had seat re-covered as old one had a tear, 300 baht
oil change every 300km, 150 baht
two 'full services as per manual' 600 baht

brake pads front and rear due to replace at next service
still has original battery, didn't expect it to last so long

and gasoline

No complaints. Base model is now 46,000 baht new, cheap running.


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## Song_Si

back to KNJ's excellent list in post #19

ideas on additions? I thought of:

cable or satellite tv
internet

for me they cost 350 (cable tv) and 780 (unlimited broadband) per month, but this will vary by area/service


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## KNJ

Just as an update:
medical insurance, this can vary widely, if you want full cover, medicine, out patient treatment etc. It will cost you thousands a year. Shop around and consider what you NEED not necessarily whatyou want. Pay the medicine and out patient fees yourself, ( they are relatively cheap often only a few dollars or tens of dollars ) set the minimum claim payment to something reasonable, 500, 1000 or even 2000 dollars, the premiums will fall dramatically.
And shop around, that can be a big difference as well.

Song Si, absolutely concurr, a MC is a much cheaper option for everyday transport, initially and on an ongoing basis ( think again if you are considering a H-D or something similar ) 

Pets can be expensive also, forget about bringing them, and get something local, huge hassle to import and unfair to them.

It is tempting ( at least for some ) to send everything to Thailand in terms of hosuehold things - Think twice, most things are available, only ship teh essentials, to minimise, cost and customs hassle. there is verylittle that cannot be bought here. ( decent set of tools is something I would advise taking, for working on property or maintaining motor of any description ) But that is my personal preference

Another thing which crossed my mind on the yearly or there abouts is replacement mobile, they are not cheap if you want high end smart phone, and most people replace every 12-18 months. Ask yourself do you need all that functionality?

If you are an avid reader, magazines and books are in Thailand like most places expensive, especially if you want the latest offerings, If you like to read find teh second hand bookshops, buy a kindle ( more costs and ongoing depending how often you download) online newspaper subscriptions are not cheap for a year, having Top Gear sent from UK 12 times a year will cost you a lot.

Like movies, I do , and copies are cheap, but buy 1-200 a year ( easy done ) more expense.

And teh list just goes on and on. Just control your spending, and be realistic.


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## TomC

stednick said:


> Tom:
> 
> I always consider the source before I decide on what to do with the information.
> 
> None the less, I'll respond; my statement stands on it's own.
> 
> *"If you can qualify for a retirement visa, you can afford to retire in Thailand."*
> 
> 
> As far as "What do you expect the gov to say?"
> 
> In consideration of the competition, other countries that are actively pursuing Foreign retirees, I "expect the gov" to require lesser funds to secure a one year retirement visa. I also "expect the gov" would have less stringent check-in requirements. However, the law is the law. It is established, it is written, and it is enforced. Many foreign retirees have been put-off by the difficulty, complexity and uncertainty of the Thai legal regimen and selected more retiree friendly venues.
> 
> So be it.
> 
> Although they may, I do not "expect" the Thai government to make the retirement visa requirements any easier in the near future.


You know what, I think you have a point there. Although, I think it costs less than 65K baht a month to live in Thailand, the gov figure is a good starting point. I'm not going to argue with 60K that the OP quoted. That's good enough for me. Any short fall can be mitigated by bank account assets. I think it's fair to say that if you don't have 65K a month, then you are not meeting the requirements and perhaps should consider some place else. If you have the 65K then it's quite nice to stay in Thailand as your actual cost can be lower than that depending on your life style.


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## stednick

*medical insurance*



KNJ said:


> medical insurance, this can vary widely, if you want full cover, medicine, out patient treatment etc. It will cost you thousands a year. Shop around and consider what you NEED not necessarily whatyou want. Pay the medicine and out patient fees yourself, ( they are relatively cheap often only a few dollars or tens of dollars ) set the minimum claim payment to something reasonable, 500, 1000 or even 2000 dollars, the premiums will fall dramatically.
> And shop around, that can be a big difference as well.


Regarding medical insurance quotes. I reference all to the thread medical insurance located in the "Basement Lounge" of this forum. 

Mr. Cooke has provided us with a pdf file of recent medical insurance quotations (eleven in total) that he has received. Thank you, cooked.


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## stednick

*Initial Setup*



KNJ said:


> Everyday living 30-45 000 is more than posible, BUT do not forget any initial set up costs:
> Furniture, kitchen equipment car or motorbike etc.


KNJ:

You have identified an oft overlooked financial facet of the Expat retirement budget, the "initial setup cost". These costs can be significant.

To amplify on your list, I add; visa costs, legal fees, medical tests, doctors reports, vaccinations, packing, storage, airfare, shipping/cargo, customs, temporary lodging, house/apartment hunting costs, security deposits, etc. The many (etc.'s) can add up. 

The point is; The Initial Setup Cost can blossom into a considerable amount of money. This cannot be overlooked in a retirement budget. 

It is also noted that these funds are not recoverable should repatriation occur. 

Words of Caution: Potential retirees must be absolutely certain that they will adapt to a long-term stay at their chosen retirement location. Repatriation is costly. You really do need to have spent considerable time living-on-the-economy (residing) where you intend to retire BEFORE you make the move. Vacationing and residing are two entirely different scenes. Be safe, not sorry.


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## 4thRight

The links from Cooked (Retire-on-550-), godfree (The Retirement Helpers) and TomC (ajarn dc Very Cool) are/were pretty nice. Now for a how to best find a few real estate types that actually want to do the work.

It's probably not realistic to make a good contact before arriving. Getting to Chiang Mai, hoteling it for a short time to find a place seems the way it'll go. The Legion might a first stop.


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## TomC

stednick said:


> KNJ:
> 
> You have identified an oft overlooked financial facet of the Expat retirement budget, the "initial setup cost". These costs can be significant.
> 
> To amplify on your list, I add; visa costs, legal fees, medical tests, doctors reports, vaccinations, packing, storage, airfare, shipping/cargo, customs, temporary lodging, house/apartment hunting costs, security deposits, etc. The many (etc.'s) can add up.


I would advise to go light. Come with the suitcases. Pay for extra baggage if needed. Use public transportation to start with. Avoid driving especially a motorbike in the beginning as it's a good way to get hurt or killed. Get used to the Thai way of driving where the biggest vehicles rule. You don't need a vehicle when you retire. Use public transportation. Go easy on health insurance in the beginning and save it for later years when you really need it or when you have a motorbike. Come and spend time in the country and learn the culture and language (a must) before moving anything substantial. Move yourself first and see if it works. I don't see why you need to move stuff from the western side unless you have a family to raise or have some unique items that you can't live without. I just went to Homepro in BKK. You can get most appliances there. You just have to pay more.


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## somchit-srimoon

I Think that the best way to find out in the month you have is ti talk wit expats and see who has an equivalent life style to what you want and ask them to detail their expenses.

We all live differently and do wonder why a condo as they seldom offer value for money unless you want right in the center of night market or the university area. 

Best of luck with you plans.


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## Newforestcat

Hi Howie

I am not sure if you are still looking at this thread.

Don't worry! Your bank balance usually sets the standard of living for you. 

My hubby (English) and I (Thai) are planning to come to live in Thailand hopefully in a couple of years, too. My husband is too relaxed about the move though. He could do with being a little worried like you.

If you have at least £1000 (after tax and expenses) from rental etc in the UK each month and maybe at least £50K in savings. You should, in Thailand, maintain the level of lifestyle you have been accustomed to.  The key thing, I guess, is to have some steady income coming in from the UK and, to avoid any nasty shocks from exchange rates either way, maybe have at least 8000-10,000 Bath per month extra income from within Thailand either from a hobby/little part-time job or if you are brave/foolish, depending on the future outcome, a little investment. 

I had been away from Thailand since 2000 and only briefly visited Thailand approx. once a year. This time it is unusual as I have been nicely stuck here since last Christmas. The food have prices shocked me a bit. I am also starting to think that I might spend less, if I quit fruit juice for Chang beer. 

Where I am living now is very cheap and utterly quiet. I am not usually very good with money, as I am now on an unpaid leave, I am a bit better. However I have not tried to and cannot skimp on food. There are three of us. I usually do food shopping and get carried away sometimes. I never spent more than £250 a month. My brother told me that I spent more on dog snacks than on my own food per day. That says a lot about food in Thailand. 

I am pretty sure that once you have settled down in CM, your spending may change slightly. The longer you are there, the more you can learn to be crafty with your money, where to shop and where to go enjoy yourself, etc. In average, you should not need to spend more than £200-300 a month on top of your rent. If you can eat pretty much anywhere, you possibly won't spend as much as £300 a month. Please note that the £300 a month figure includes utilities and excludes rent and emergencies such as car or personal checkups or repairs 

English books are expensive. Get an e-reader. No need for a car if you live in or near CM city centre. Imported goods are very expensive, if you need something, bring loads with you. Use Skype to save on phone bills. You possibly don't even need a landline. Cooking for one or two people is usually more expensive than eating out the Thai way. Assuming, you are healthy, you would spend more cash on flying to see friends and family back in the UK than on living in Thailand for three months.

Anyway, don't have too much money in your Baht account. No govermental gurantees, if your Thai bank goes bust, say sayonara to your money. Use HiFX, it is so easy to transfer Pounds to Bath bank accounts in Thailand. Rates are better when you transfer bigger amounts, too. Also, no fees either end, you won't get that from the banks! This is how we have topped up our Thai holiday funds. We hardly use the Exchange Bureau these days! Cheers!


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## 4thRight

60K BHT seems about 20K higher than what I am imagining with all the bells and whistles, weekly housekeeping and public transportation. I am hearing Malaysia is cheaper and property can be owned by expats. The security of owning my home may be the deciding factor. Somewhere I have read that there is an occasional situation or a peculiar route to property ownership by a farang that does not include marriage in which the Thai would be the actual owner anyway.


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## howie444

Newforestcat said:


> Hi Howie
> 
> I am not sure if you are still looking at this thread.
> 
> Don't worry! Your bank balance usually sets the standard of living for you.
> 
> My hubby (English) and I (Thai) are planning to come to live in Thailand hopefully in a couple of years, too. My husband is too relaxed about the move though. He could do with being a little worried like you.
> 
> If you have at least £1000 (after tax and expenses) from rental etc in the UK each month and maybe at least £50K in savings. You should, in Thailand, maintain the level of lifestyle you have been accustomed to.  The key thing, I guess, is to have some steady income coming in from the UK and, to avoid any nasty shocks from exchange rates either way, maybe have at least 8000-10,000 Bath per month extra income from within Thailand either from a hobby/little part-time job or if you are brave/foolish, depending on the future outcome, a little investment.
> 
> I had been away from Thailand since 2000 and only briefly visited Thailand approx. once a year. This time it is unusual as I have been nicely stuck here since last Christmas. The food have prices shocked me a bit. I am also starting to think that I might spend less, if I quit fruit juice for Chang beer.
> 
> Where I am living now is very cheap and utterly quiet. I am not usually very good with money, as I am now on an unpaid leave, I am a bit better. However I have not tried to and cannot skimp on food. There are three of us. I usually do food shopping and get carried away sometimes. I never spent more than £250 a month. My brother told me that I spent more on dog snacks than on my own food per day. That says a lot about food in Thailand.
> 
> I am pretty sure that once you have settled down in CM, your spending may change slightly. The longer you are there, the more you can learn to be crafty with your money, where to shop and where to go enjoy yourself, etc. In average, you should not need to spend more than £200-300 a month on top of your rent. If you can eat pretty much anywhere, you possibly won't spend as much as £300 a month. Please note that the £300 a month figure includes utilities and excludes rent and emergencies such as car or personal checkups or repairs
> 
> English books are expensive. Get an e-reader. No need for a car if you live in or near CM city centre. Imported goods are very expensive, if you need something, bring loads with you. Use Skype to save on phone bills. You possibly don't even need a landline. Cooking for one or two people is usually more expensive than eating out the Thai way. Assuming, you are healthy, you would spend more cash on flying to see friends and family back in the UK than on living in Thailand for three months.
> 
> Anyway, don't have too much money in your Baht account. No govermental gurantees, if your Thai bank goes bust, say sayonara to your money. Use HiFX, it is so easy to transfer Pounds to Bath bank accounts in Thailand. Rates are better when you transfer bigger amounts, too. Also, no fees either end, you won't get that from the banks! This is how we have topped up our Thai holiday funds. We hardly use the Exchange Bureau these days! Cheers!


Newforestcat...thank you for all the lovely information you have put on this thread. I intend to hopefully live in Chaing Mai in a Condo. Once I have paid rent, health insurance and utilities, I hope to have left per month from my income from the Uk, approx £500-£600, so should be able to put a little aside every month for the unexpected bills, although will have an amount in an a/c all the time to cover these unexpected bills as well.

I intend to eat as a Thai most if not all the time, basically because I dont enjoy English food but Thai street food is for me so much much nicer. I have visited Thailand 11 times and intend another visit to Chaing Mai next year for a month, then hopefully in 2014 for a couple of months, then retire in 2015. As I have said before I am not a materialistic person, in the Uk have wanted for nothing, but have so envied the Thai's I have met in relation to their standard of living, I wont need a vehicle, a £5-8,000BHT per month condo is enough for me. The basic life is the thing I am most looking forward to, as well as the food and the lovely Thai smile!

Thanks again for all your advise, I would say I am as prepared as you can be for such a big step, so in 2.5yrs time, should be about ready to go!

Howie


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## ATM

howie444 said:


> Hello
> 
> I have placed threads on here before and the answers were very helpful, thank you.
> I am over the next 2-3 yrs gaining as much information as possible before I hopefully retire to Chiang Mai. I will then be 51yrs old, male, single, no dependants. I have lived a fortunate existance in the UK, lovely home, well paid job, etc. However have visited Thailand approx 10times and so love the country. I am not a materialistic person so i envy the Thai way of life so much, compared to that in the UK, were everyone has to have a better car, home, job etc then everyone else, for what..this has never made me happy!
> 
> This isnt a new idea of mine, I have been planning on paper & in my head for a few years now, but am having difficulty to put an accurate figure on the cost of living. I am visiting again early 2013 for 1 month but this is too short a time to get this estimate, hense this thread!
> 
> I hope to rent a Condo for approx B15,000ish per month, eat Thai street food (love Thai food, hate most English food). I hope to spend my initial years learning the Thai language at a language school, I don't drink too much.
> 
> How much will I need, I have a figure of approx B45,000 per month after rent of Condo, but am reading a few threads that this isn't enough, and I can't see why......help please...many thanks!


Depending on what you want, you can rent a flat for around 6.000 bath. If you know that you want to live in Thailand, then there is a lot to save by having your own furnitures, fridge, etc. An empthy house or apartment is cheaper than obe fully furnished.

I my selv lives in Cambodia, and I have a good life, with my girlfreing, two children and a grandmother to take care of, for 21.000 bath, including rent for a very good house with two bedrooms and a nice garden.

You can save a lot by making you own meals, or at least some of them.

My guess is that you can live nicely for aprox 35.000 bath all included.

If you think Thai people dont think about material progress, some surprizes are waiting in the horizon for you especially if you get a Thai girlfreind.

She will expect a house from you, a car nicer than her sisters, etc etc.

One thing I have learned from my more than 20 years in Asia is. Take it easy after arrival. Never rent anything from Europe, and when you are in Thailand, take it easy, rent something to start with. And then later, when you know more about your needs, etc etc, you can start to take big decisions.

Be aware of the visa problems, you can get in Thailand. I have lived in Cambodia since three years a go because of the easy way to get visa and work permit in Cambodia.


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## Mweiga

4thRight said:


> The security of owning my home may be the deciding factor. Somewhere I have read that there is an occasional situation or a peculiar route to property ownership by a farang that does not include marriage in which the Thai would be the actual owner anyway.


This is the easiest , quickest and potentially cheapest route , but depends entirely on trust - something often in short supply these days. It worked for me 8 years ago and continues to work today.

However , suggest you have a Plan B up your sleeve if you try this.


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## ATM

Mweiga said:


> This is the easiest , quickest and potentially cheapest route , but depends entirely on trust - something often in short supply these days. It worked for me 8 years ago and continues to work today.
> 
> However , suggest you have a Plan B up your sleeve if you try this.


Its the "Company" solution. A company in Thailand has to have at least 51% Thai ownership. You can only have 49%.

So the 51% is owned by people you have never seen, never met. You depend completely on trust, in a foreign country.

Two or three years ago there was an attempt to demand activity in all registered companies. And that can happen again, for sure.

You also have to remember that a foreigner can own an apartment legally, but there has to be at least, I think its 50% Thai-owners in that project. 

Its much safer to rent. And by renting, you still have your freedom.


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## Mweiga

ATM said:


> Its the "Company" solution. A company in Thailand has to have at least 51% Thai ownership. You can only have 49%.
> 
> So the 51% is owned by people you have never seen, never met. You depend completely on trust, in a foreign country.
> 
> Two or three years ago there was an attempt to demand activity in all registered companies. And that can happen again, for sure.
> 
> You also have to remember that a foreigner can own an apartment legally, but there has to be at least, I think its 50% Thai-owners in that project.
> 
> Its much safer to rent. And by renting, you still have your freedom.


I was actually referring to the non-formal personal relationship Thai ownership route - this is not for everybody as there's no legal protection (should you want it) but can work out very well.

The "company" solution is as you rightly point out a minefield for the unwary - the 49% means very little and in practice you actually own nothing. The 51% owner calls the shots and can get the perceived rules and terms , which fall under the Thai legal system , changed to their advantage should they be so inclined. I would never try this method but appreciate it can work for some.


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## ATM

Mweiga said:


> I was actually referring to the non-formal personal relationship Thai ownership route - this is not for everybody as there's no legal protection (should you want it) but can work out very well.
> 
> The "company" solution is as you rightly point out a minefield for the unwary - the 49% means very little and in practice you actually own nothing. The 51% owner calls the shots and can get the perceived rules and terms , which fall under the Thai legal system , changed to their advantage should they be so inclined. I would never try this method but appreciate it can work for some.


This tread is started by a tourist who plans to settle in Thailand. To be honest, I cant imagine that tourist know a person who he trust enough to hand over a deed of an apartment.

To own property in Thailand is risky business for a foreigner. Things takes time. Five years, ten years, twenty years, to establish a trustworthy relation with a Thai. And its definitely not a girl or a Thai wife picked up in a bar two months before the buy. I am so happy that I am not a newbee. Everything get more and more advanced. The cheating too. 

But then again: Its sooooo difficult for people to seek advices about staying in Thailand. People who hasn't been cheated the first year i Thailand insist that everything is safe and secure.

To the person who started the tread: Good luck. Take it easy. Don't take any big decisions the first year or five. And you will stay happy.


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## howie444

ATM said:


> This tread is started by a tourist who plans to settle in Thailand. To be honest, I cant imagine that tourist know a person who he trust enough to hand over a deed of an apartment.
> 
> To own property in Thailand is risky business for a foreigner. Things takes time. Five years, ten years, twenty years, to establish a trustworthy relation with a Thai. And its definitely not a girl or a Thai wife picked up in a bar two months before the buy. I am so happy that I am not a newbee. Everything get more and more advanced. The cheating too.
> 
> But then again: Its sooooo difficult for people to seek advices about staying in Thailand. People who hasn't been cheated the first year i Thailand insist that everything is safe and secure.
> 
> To the person who started the tread: Good luck. Take it easy. Don't take any big decisions the first year or five. And you will stay happy.


Good morning everyone
I started this thread and for my first attempt I have got many more replies and advice that I ever thought I would, so a big big thank you to everyone who has contributed and to those that will continue to do so.
My personal plans are as I said previous..I intend to visit Chaing Mai next year for a month, visit a few condo's (already have a list, but will add to this when I am in Chaing Mai). Then in 2014 / late 2013 I intend to visit for at least 2 months more, stay in a cheap B&B (as the first time) and collect as much info in that time, also living within my budget I will have when I retire there. Then if all goes well, retire in Chaing Mai in 2015 when I am 51yrs old. My intentions then are to rent a condo for a year, gain much more knowledge about everything Thailand/Chaing Mai, enlist in a language course, then go from there.
Hopefully can see me renting a condo for many years, so that if I need a change of location I can move.
I don't intend to work, don't intend to find a partner, just enjoy being in my little condo, learn Thai, eat off the street, visit many many parts of Chaing Mai / Northern Thailand, smile a lot and chill...and maybe surprising for some, to be able to live an existence that is very basic compared to now (not materialistic at all even though have a very nice home now, cars, job etc).
Thank you to all that reads this thread, I hope it is being of benefit to others as much as it is being to me.
Thanks again
Howie


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## Glen10

Once you get settled in(few months) you can live off of 30-40,000. You know how guys are. Everything has to be bigger than what it really is. All the way from the fish they caught to the size of their pecker.


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## KNJ

Good luck Howie, maybe our paths will cross as i will do something similar if all works out. My wife already has a uncle living there for the past 5 years and he enjoys his life and retirement a lot.
I have looked at various options for accomodation, and certainly we will rent, one thing I think worth pointing out is that in general houses tend to rent cheaper than condos, and much more choices. that said the wife still prefers the security and facilities of a condo, so the decision is not made yet.
As I pointed out in an earlier post do not forget all the start up costs and annual fees

Glen, some of us really do catch monster fish, but no I am not posting a picture of my willy


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## Glen10

If you did, would you have to use microfilm ~ BTW, that's a heck of a fish. Be well!


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## howie444

*2 questions*

I am putting together a list of things that will ready me for my month in Chiang Mai next year, then for the 2-3 months visit a year after, hopefully in readiness for my permanent stay commencing in 2 yrs time!!

1. there are hundreds of B&Bs, wanted one for a month, with a small pool, basic B&B with wi-fi, near Thapae gate/Ping river.

2. 3-4 Condo's to view (if allowed) to get an idea of what you get for approx 5-7,000 per month, probably within a mile of above area (again with a pool)

As you will gather, only luxury (apart from actually being in Thailand, is that a pool is required for the odd dip!)

many thanks to all on this great forum

Howie


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## relax222

howie444 said:


> I am putting together a list of things that will ready me for my month in Chiang Mai next year, then for the 2-3 months visit a year after, hopefully in readiness for my permanent stay commencing in 2 yrs time!!
> 
> 1. there are hundreds of B&Bs, wanted one for a month, with a small pool, basic B&B with wi-fi, near Thapae gate/Ping river.
> 
> 2. 3-4 Condo's to view (if allowed) to get an idea of what you get for approx 5-7,000 per month, probably within a mile of above area (again with a pool)
> 
> As you will gather, only luxury (apart from actually being in Thailand, is that a pool is required for the odd dip!)
> 
> many thanks to all on this great forum
> 
> There are hundreds of B&Bs, want one for a month, with a small pool, basic B&B with wi-fi, near Thapae gate/Ping river.
> Has anyone any suggestions please, also would love a B&B that is very authentic.
> Thank you
> Relax


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## Song_Si

hi
did you find somewhere to start your stay in CM?
three years ago we spent a week in Chiang Mai and stayed at Tha Phae Gardens Guesthouse - handy, quiet location and a small pool; unsure re wifi. two sets of friends have stayed there since for short stays no complaints. As you say, there are so many around that area to choose from.


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## howie444

Song Si

Many thanks for that; I will take a look at their web site. It is always better to get recommendations. 

Thanks again

Howie


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## Les66

As a lifelong frustrated fisherman, I had to laugh at the fishing cost line. I could probably live out my days eating truffles and drinking French champaigne for what it's cost me to catch the odd miserable looking fish!!!


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## JustChris

45,000 Baht a month is more than enough especially if you eat Thai food! As far as 15,000 Baht a month for a condo that is a little steep unless you want a luxury condo with service in the city proper. I live just out side of the city and the village next to me has beautiful one bedroom apartments with a fitness club, sauna, first class swimming pool convenient to everything for just 6,000 to 8,000 per month. If you want something in the city I know of a few places that go for 8,000 Bath per month that have cooking facilities, gardens, dinning area and separate bedroom and balcony.


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## howie444

JustChris

In relation to your last post, would it be possible to send any website details of any of these apartments. When I retire to Chiang Mai i dont think I will get either a car or a motorbike, so the one were you live may be a little too far from the centre, but worth looking at.

Many thanks

Howie


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## howie444

*My Update!*

Dear all

I thought I would just update this thread as I have recently returned from a month in Thailand.
I spent a week in Bangkok, then a week visiting an ex work colleague in Issan, followed by 2 weeks in Chiang Mai, which will hopefully be my chosen retirement location.
I could write pages and pages on my experience in Chiang Mai, but to not bore anyone, here is a quick overview.
I went to Chiang Mai to research the city as a possible retirement location, and also the related costs. I visited several apartments, and there is at present certainly no probelm me getting a lovely studio apartment with balcony, pool, gym for approx B6000-B8000 per month and services approx another B2000 per month. I spent several days eating as I would on retirement around the street stalls near the apartments I visited and I could have breakfast, lunch, early evening and late evening meal (I love Thai food and am a big eater) with water for approx B200 per day with B50 per beer. So without the beer thats approx B14,000 - B16,000 per month with health insurance for myself B6,000 and 2 beers a day B3,000 bringing a total of B25,000 (£500). The only other costs may be laundry but with a washer and a balcony that would be free and depending on location I would buy a pushbike to get around, therefore travel would be free. The only other initial costs would be to buy some provisions for my kitchen and costs for some courses I would enrol on like a Thai language course and an artist course.
I realise this isnt as detailed andprobably accurate as anyone who has already retired in Chiang Mai, but I hope it may be a little help to some.
I came hope with the knowledge that retiring in Chiang Mai is something that hopefully now will happen once I am 50yrs old (2 yrs time, although that will soon pass) and although I have visited now I think 17 times, the only other thing I need initially, is common sense and several hobbies (language course and drawing course).
The common sense bit....Thailand especially Chiang Mai is very safe, I walked around the old town and areas close to apartments and never once felt threatened, even early hours of the morning. I know I was only there 2 weeks, but I feel threatened in England nearly always in similar sized cities, especially at dark. I feel speaking Thai will help, I learnt a little but if you speak Thai I feel the Thai's will respect you even more, and you can listen when they are chatting to each other!! Dont ever get drunk, apart from in your apartment, and just use common sense.
Again I hope this may be a little help to some.
Howie


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## semeya

howie444 said:


> Dear all
> 
> I thought I would just update this thread as I have recently returned from a month in Thailand.
> I spent a week in Bangkok, then a week visiting an ex work colleague in Issan, followed by 2 weeks in Chiang Mai, which will hopefully be my chosen retirement location.
> I could write pages and pages on my experience in Chiang Mai, but to not bore anyone, here is a quick overview.
> I went to Chiang Mai to research the city as a possible retirement location, and also the related costs. I visited several apartments, and there is at present certainly no probelm me getting a lovely studio apartment with balcony, pool, gym for approx B6000-B8000 per month and services approx another B2000 per month. I spent several days eating as I would on retirement around the street stalls near the apartments I visited and I could have breakfast, lunch, early evening and late evening meal (I love Thai food and am a big eater) with water for approx B200 per day with B50 per beer. So without the beer thats approx B14,000 - B16,000 per month with health insurance for myself B6,000 and 2 beers a day B3,000 bringing a total of B25,000 (£500). The only other costs may be laundry but with a washer and a balcony that would be free and depending on location I would buy a pushbike to get around, therefore travel would be free. The only other initial costs would be to buy some provisions for my kitchen and costs for some courses I would enrol on like a Thai language course and an artist course.
> I realise this isnt as detailed andprobably accurate as anyone who has already retired in Chiang Mai, but I hope it may be a little help to some.
> I came hope with the knowledge that retiring in Chiang Mai is something that hopefully now will happen once I am 50yrs old (2 yrs time, although that will soon pass) and although I have visited now I think 17 times, the only other thing I need initially, is common sense and several hobbies (language course and drawing course).
> The common sense bit....Thailand especially Chiang Mai is very safe, I walked around the old town and areas close to apartments and never once felt threatened, even early hours of the morning. I know I was only there 2 weeks, but I feel threatened in England nearly always in similar sized cities, especially at dark. I feel speaking Thai will help, I learnt a little but if you speak Thai I feel the Thai's will respect you even more, and you can listen when they are chatting to each other!! Dont ever get drunk, apart from in your apartment, and just use common sense.
> Again I hope this may be a little help to some.
> Howie


Hi Howie
I was very impress with the information you acquired in 2 weeks. I'm also planning to visit Thailand within the next 6 mths for about 3-4 mths. This will be my first visit to the country. However, I've been doing a lot of recherché. Chaing Mai and bangkok also appear to be a reasonable place for me. I'm single 65 therefore,
some of my expectation might be a little different. For example, focusing on future in home healthcare and a communication network etc. Would you be able to elaborate a little on the mode of transportation used, approximate cost. Also areas,place visited in bangkok and Chiang Mai. During your recent visit regarding your retirement recherché.

Thank's again for the information Posted.

Semeya.


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## howie444

Semeya

When I was in Bangkok I either walked, which was very tiring and sweaty in the heat, at any time of the day. When I was going only a smallish distance (1km) I took a tuk tuk, which usually cost me about B50 because as I was really on holiday I couldn't be bothered to barter most of the time, and as I love Thai people, I didn't see the point in trying to get down to B40 (20p reduction in English).

When I was travelling a longer distance I took the skytrain. This was a wonderful mode of transport. It was very quick, clean, and very cheap. I honestly can't remember what I paid but it was about B40 to travel several miles. If you are in Bangkok and have plenty of time, I would suggest the tuk tuk, as you can take all Bangkok in as you travel, and its like being at the fair, especially when they go a little too fast, but as I was in Bangkok only 5 days I didn't have too much spare time.

When I visited Chiang Mai, I took the tuk tuk all the time unless I plenty of time, as walking around Chiang Mai is a lovely thing to do, viewing the shops, bars, people etc. if you do take a tuk tuk, you should be able to get anywhere within the city for about B30-B50, depending on distance and if you can be bothered to barter.

Another mode of transport I used was the motorbike (being a passenger) although I had to do it at least once, it frightened me to death as there is not anything from stopping you falling off, and you haven't a helmet on.

There was another mode of transport, especially in Chiang Mai, which was a songthaew, this is a van with 2 rows of seats. As I didn't use these, I don't know the cost although I believe about B20. I think you just get on and get off where you wish then pay the driver on exit.

Sorry another mode of transport is the yellow taxi, which always show the fare, and compared to England, is very cheap.

Finally on the above, you need to (except yellow taxi's) barter for the fare before you set off, otherwise you may end up arguing with the driver on arrival at your destination.

I hope this helps, the month I was in Thailand was amazing as always, I telly know you will have a lovely time. Please don't hesitate to reply should you need any more help, although most on here will have a better understanding on Thailand than myself as I have only visited as a 'tourist' for approx 17 times and not an expat (yet!!!!!!)

Take care

Howie


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## semeya

howie444 said:


> Semeya
> 
> When I was in Bangkok I either walked, which was very tiring and sweaty in the heat, at any time of the day. When I was going only a smallish distance (1km) I took a tuk tuk, which usually cost me about B50 because as I was really on holiday I couldn't be bothered to barter most of the time, and as I love Thai people, I didn't see the point in trying to get down to B40 (20p reduction in English).
> 
> When I was travelling a longer distance I took the skytrain. This was a wonderful mode of transport. It was very quick, clean, and very cheap. I honestly can't remember what I paid but it was about B40 to travel several miles. If you are in Bangkok and have plenty of time, I would suggest the tuk tuk, as you can take all Bangkok in as you travel, and its like being at the fair, especially when they go a little too fast, but as I was in Bangkok only 5 days I didn't have too much spare time.
> 
> When I visited Chiang Mai, I took the tuk tuk all the time unless I plenty of time, as walking around Chiang Mai is a lovely thing to do, viewing the shops, bars, people etc. if you do take a tuk tuk, you should be able to get anywhere within the city for about B30-B50, depending on distance and if you can be bothered to barter.
> 
> Another mode of transport I used was the motorbike (being a passenger) although I had to do it at least once, it frightened me to death as there is not anything from stopping you falling off, and you haven't a helmet on.
> 
> There was another mode of transport, especially in Chiang Mai, which was a songthaew, this is a van with 2 rows of seats. As I didn't use these, I don't know the cost although I believe about B20. I think you just get on and get off where you wish then pay the driver on exit.
> 
> Sorry another mode of transport is the yellow taxi, which always show the fare, and compared to England, is very cheap.
> 
> Finally on the above, you need to (except yellow taxi's) barter for the fare before you set off, otherwise you may end up arguing with the driver on arrival at your destination.
> 
> I hope this helps, the month I was in Thailand was amazing as always, I telly know you will have a lovely time. Please don't hesitate to reply should you need any more help, although most on here will have a better understanding on Thailand than myself as I have only visited as a 'tourist' for approx 17 times and not an expat (yet!!!!!!)
> 
> Take care
> 
> Howie


Hi Howie

Thanks for taking the time to address some of my concerns. The information was very helpful. Furthermore, I know you're not an expat yet!! but with 17 visits, that have a lot of validity in my book mate!!!! 

I'm thinking Bangkok Airport would be the best starting point because of easy accessibility to Bangkok by train, compared to landing at Chiang Mai Airport. However, with an Airport-Hotel service pick-up, Chiang Mai would be the preferable place to start my orientation into the Thai culture.

So with that been said. I'm wondering if you could recommend any of the (Apt/condo) places that you look at in Chiang Mai or Bangkok. Also any further opinion you have on the issue will be greatly appreciate. I plan on doing lots of walking around the community, interacting with the Thai people, visiting the Hospitals, Banks,and Social Services. This visit will be the deciding factor, whether Thailand is the place for me to live as a retiree!!!!!!!

Thanks again for all your help!!!!!!!

Semeya.


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## howie444

Semeya

I will do my best to offer my opinion on anything Thai, but as you now realise I arent an expert by a long way, just basing my information on the recent visits I have done myself. It is always advisable and best policy to get as much information from as many people as possible, then take little snippets from each and use these to assist you, however one of the most wonderful things about Thailand is self learning, and if you use your common sense (the most important quality you can have) it is a wonderful way to learn. You will make mistakes, but hopefully only small ones, but learn from them...and always smile. In relation to the smile thing, I am British, we dont smile....at all!!! When you arrive in Thailand you smile at everyone, and everyone smiles back...its a weard sensation to start with because it caused me to be out of my comfort zone, but when you get used to smiling. When saying hello do a 'Thai Wai' which means at the same time as saying hello (sawasdee khrap or sawasdee khaa, the first if a male is saying, the second if a female is saying) you place your hands together like you are praying and then placed together in front of the chest...and smile!

Anyway on to transport. When I arrived in Bangkok, i went with my luggage to the taxi rank just outside the airport (just outside the exit doors) there are several Thai's organising official taxi's, use one of these. I think I paid B500 for an hr travel to my city hotel. Dont use the taxi's offered in the arrivals hall as they could con you. Alternatively if your hotel picks you up, thats even better as it may be free. I found travelling by licenced taxi is the easiest with your luggage to the hotel/B&B.

When you arrive in Chiang Mai airport I just hailed down a tuk tuk and paid B200 to my B&B in the old town.

In relation to accomodation in either Bangkok or Chiang Mai, I used Tripadvisor. This way you can decide hotel/B&B, location, price, swimming pool or not etc etc and read all previous visitors comments. My personal advice in Chiang Mai is to use a B&B rather than a hotel, this way you tend to get more Thai culture rather than a hotel chain that looks like you could be in any country. I used SK2 B&B, which for me was fine, it was in the old town, 5 mins walk from bars, restaurants and a B50 tuk tuk ride from the night market. It also had a swimming pool, restaaurant and small bar. However do use tripadvisor as there are hundreds on there!

Hopefully a little more info that may be helpful, please ask if there is anything else I can try and advise on.

Howie


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## semeya

Thanks so much for all your help!!!

Peace & Love

Semeya


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## howie444

Semeya


I hope your travels are all you hoped for. Thailand has to be one of the most wonderful places on earth, just please use your common sense and respect the Thai's. Also if you have time before you go to Thailand, learn a little Thai, and learn about their traditions, as this will help you to be safe and enjoy your time in Thailand much much more.

Enjoy

Howie


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## auriga

Very useful thread. In particular, thanks to Howie!


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## davidsmac

I am thinking of retiring in Bangkok, or at least spending six months of our Canadian winters there. Is it difficult to get six month rentals?


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## ripper15

Recomendations for this thread are: don't over analyse your move too much and plan on staying for six months to a year to learn weather the expat life is for you and Thailand in particular. Don't burn any bridges till you are certain. Be more wary of all the farang hustlers than you will be of the Thais. The best way to learn Thai is to learn to read it . Best of luck to you and hope you learn to love Thailand as much as I do. Sorry to say since this is my first post on this forum I cannot give you a link to 2 very good sites on learning thai and retiring expenses.


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## ripper15

Forgot to add that six month rentals are no problem. Haggle to get at least 5- 10% off daily rate for a week stay, 15-20% for a month and for six months 25%. This would be for a clean a/c room in a hostel, B&B or small hotel like establishment. Sometimes for six month stay they will want to quote a price for the room and then a seperate rate for electricity and water that they call a per unit rate. Be careful here as it can get expensive doing it this way. Also if you plan to do your traveling during high season or the holidays the rates can easily be double the normal prices and it can be hard to get a room at all if you don't book six months ahead of time. And trying to travel on the bus or train during certain holidays can be almost impossible.


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## howie444

Many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I have changed my plans a little and hopefully will now be staying in Chiang Mai for 2 months from November 2013. Then hopefully to retire to Chiang Mai in October 2014.

I look forward to using this fantastic forum many more times.

Howie


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## davidsmac

Howie, what made you decide Chiang Mai over Bangkok?


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## howie444

Hello again

What made me decide Chiang Mai over Bangkok? Good question! Probably one thing was the cost of living, learning through this forum, the cost of living is far greater in Bangkok than Chiang Mai, and if I were to learn to the contrary, I may put Bangkok as a possible retirement location. I hopefully am to retire end 2014, with my next visit for approx 2 months from November this year, in mainly Chiang Mai.

I do love Bangkok, probably has a lot more going on, more variety, and more choice of eating venues (one of the main reasons to choose Thailand as ones retirement destination). But Chiang Mai is a little more relaxed, laid back, and less expensive. If I do retire in Chiang Mai, I can always visit Bangkok on the train (cheap and a better way to view the countryside, even though a 12hr journey). So it's a personal choice, if I or anyone else chooses Bangkok or Chiang Mai, or anywhere else, we can always change our mind after a month, year or 20 years!!!

Howie


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## stednick

howie444 said:


> Hello again
> 
> What made me decide Chiang Mai over Bangkok? Good question! Probably one thing was the cost of living, learning through this forum, the cost of living is far greater in Bangkok than Chiang Mai, and if I were to learn to the contrary, I may put Bangkok as a possible retirement location. I hopefully am to retire end 2014, with my next visit for approx 2 months from November this year, in mainly Chiang Mai.
> 
> I do love Bangkok, probably has a lot more going on, more variety, and more choice of eating venues (one of the main reasons to choose Thailand as ones retirement destination). But Chiang Mai is a little more relaxed, laid back, and less expensive. If I do retire in Chiang Mai, I can always visit Bangkok on the train (cheap and a better way to view the countryside, even though a 12hr journey). So it's a personal choice, if I or anyone else chooses Bangkok or Chiang Mai, or anywhere else, we can always change our mind after a month, year or 20 years!!!
> 
> Howie



Howie: I'll chime in on the train ride, speaking from experience, boring! if you've seen one kilometer of rice field, or jungle, you've seen them all. The train ride is a compilation of the same scenes repeated over and over ad infinitum. 

Should you venture to test the theory of "seeing the countryside", bring plenty of reading material (at least enough to last you twelve hours). 

The 45 minute plane ride is a far more enjoyable, and likable, experience.


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## wendy_1

45,000 THB is more than enough for Chiang Mai. You will be living a very comfortable lifestyle.


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## ntbarclay

howie444 said:


> Hello again
> 
> What made me decide Chiang Mai over Bangkok? Good question! Probably one thing was the cost of living, learning through this forum, the cost of living is far greater in Bangkok than Chiang Mai, and if I were to learn to the contrary, I may put Bangkok as a possible retirement location. I hopefully am to retire end 2014, with my next visit for approx 2 months from November this year, in mainly Chiang Mai.
> 
> I do love Bangkok, probably has a lot more going on, more variety, and more choice of eating venues (one of the main reasons to choose Thailand as ones retirement destination). But Chiang Mai is a little more relaxed, laid back, and less expensive. If I do retire in Chiang Mai, I can always visit Bangkok on the train (cheap and a better way to view the countryside, even though a 12hr journey). So it's a personal choice, if I or anyone else chooses Bangkok or Chiang Mai, or anywhere else, we can always change our mind after a month, year or 20 years!!!
> 
> Howie


You can also look for cheap flights on Air Asia. Quite often they have flights for $20 one-way.


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## TheProfessor

45k is what I spent while living in Chiang Mai. I lived fairly well, though not great. It depends on your tastes. 

If you don't drink much, 45k goes a long way. Alcohol definitely eats away at a budget. 

Owning a motorbike and renting a house just 5-10 minutes outside of town is a great way to save money and increase your standard of living. Of course, be careful with that motorbike if you're out drinking.


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## thaicanuck

We just retired here after spending the last six years working in China. My monthly budget is 45-50k, which seems to be enough if you buy stuff at the local markets, don't spend your days at the bars, and stay away from western restaurants for the most part. If you bring your western lifestyle with you, you will have a hard time living on that amount. But it does all depend on your comfort level, as with anywhere. And I agree with the flight from Bangkok vs the train. It is quicker, safer and not that expensive.


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## trphoto

There have been two derailments in the past month. Lol


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## howie444

*Thank you*

Hello all

When I started this thread never expected so many views and comments, it shows what a great forum this is. Just a little update on my own plans. I am now travelling from Bangkok to Chiang Mai by air, which did cost £10 less than by train.

I am visiting Thailand again in November this year for about 2 months, a little time in Bangkok then up to Chiang Mai to spend a week in a Condo to give me a little idea of Condo living, which is obviously how I will live when I hopefully retire next year.

I will be budgeting B50,000 for the month in the Condo, and will be making a list of all I spend, so when I return I can share it on here.

Speak again soon, thank you all

Howie


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## BlackRain79

I have lived in CM for over a year now and love it here. Been everywhere in Thailand and I think it is easily the best place for living. Plus you can easily just hop on a plane for cheap and be in Phuket, Samui, or elsewhere in 2 hours. Live here and vacation there in my opinion.


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## Song_Si

stednick said:


> Howie: I'll chime in on the train ride, speaking from experience, boring! if you've seen one kilometer of rice field, or jungle, you've seen them all. The train ride is a compilation of the same scenes repeated over and over ad infinitum.
> 
> Should you venture to test the theory of "seeing the countryside", bring plenty of reading material (at least enough to last you twelve hours).
> 
> The 45 minute plane ride is a far more enjoyable, and likable, experience.


A note on the train - twelve hours may not be enough reading material if you factor in another derailment! 
And bring good walking shoes, just in case.



> *Train Derails for the ELEVENTH Time this Year*
> Sep 2, 2013
> CityNews – At 9 p.m. on 1st September 2013, the second carriage of the train leaving Chiang Mai and heading to Bangkok derailed in Mae Moh District, Lampang. From initial reports, there were no injuries and it was found that the two front wheels had derailed from the track. Most of the passengers were foreigners. The repairs were made by 2.30 a.m. on 2nd September and is now running as normal.
> Between April and May this year the train derailed 4 times, between June and July it derailed 3 times and in August it derailed 3 times.











*Chiang Mai-bound train derails in tunnel*
August 4, 2013 









*Train derailment leaves 23 injured*
The Nation July 17, 2013 
Foreign nationals were among the 23 passengers injured when a Chiang Mai-bound train derailed in Phrae province early on Wednesday morning. The passengers were sleeping when the train's seven compartments toppled over onto their sides in Denchai district at about 3am.


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## visual effects editor

Hello,
I did not take the time to read every post, but there is something to consider, Thai workers who "get by" on 10,000 baht a month live in a one room apartment with two other Thais. They share their bed, food and food preparation and have very little privacy. No air conditioning and maybe no hot water. It can get the be very hot and noisy in low rent Thai neighborhoods. Yes people get by on less, but can you? There is sort of a point where you are just existing and doing nothing. Not fun in the tropics. 

From my experience, you are looking at 30,000 baht per month *minimum* in CHIANG MAI. That buys you not much fun, just eating street food and hanging out, a very simple place, basic scooter rental, not much money for long distance traveling in Thailand or hotels, no girlfriend unless she is poor and has low expectations. A beer here or there. I don't think health insurance would fit in this budget. Maybe if your rent was like 4000 baht. Very basic entertainment. 

A single man living in a very simple way (no car, car insurance, mortgage, children, wife, "costly relationship") can live on 45,000 baht. A *nice* house or condo with a view, *secure*, with AC blasting, utilities and internet and SAT/CABLE is 15,000. Better quality food, a smartphone with data, beer or wine on occasion, scooter rental all month, fuel, health insurance is another 18,000 with 12000 left over TO ENJOY YOUR LIFE EXPLORING THAILAND. Or maybe a few dates with nice Thai women or what ever you are into. 

60,000 a month will be lots of fun... no worries at all. 60k becomes buying a modest car, car insurance, gas, maintenance and those headaches. Or just more fun or a bigger place, nice hotels and a few expensive dinners or more time traveling. 60k you can now fly on occasion from CM to BKK or elsewhere. 

Make a spread sheet and run the numbers. Don't forget about factoring in inflation, one time expenses like motorcycle helmet and gloves, camera, emergency trips back to the UK, insurance deductibles, setting aside 800,000 baht so you can stay in country *until you die* and periods of poor exchange rates. Look back at a chart of the Baht to Pound and see the difference of just 10 years ago. Figure *at least* 20% more expensive 10 years from now. No one knows the future, so I use past inflation data to project forward. 

For two/three months out of the year, the air quality in Chiang Mai and the North in general is HORRIBLE. Think about being down south during that time, and what that might cost. For 60k a month your can live in a basic way closer to the ocean and better air. 

At some point as you get older you may want to by a car just for the air conditioning.  Don't forget about medications, supplements, shoes, clothes, replacing your cellphone, your hobbies, you might join a gym or take classes. Street food tastes great, but the quality of the food can be lacking and can have lots of sugar and so does a alcohol. So factor in eating higher quality food like seafood, fruits, nuts, berries and vegetables that have not been blasted in a wok. 

The next time you come to Thailand open a bank account and link it to your UK bank. "Practice" transferring a small amount of money before you leave the UK. 

Look into Chiang Rai and Udon Thani. Living for a bit less in Chiang Rai frees up money to travel. 

Bottom line is 45k and up and you are good to go. 

Good luck.


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## dhream

I budget EUR1000 a month in Central Portugal. That's B42260.96 By way of comparison, the monthly minimum wage here is EUR450. A trained nurse earns about EUR800, the average wage is EUR750.

It's interesting that just EUR500 a month more translates to B63391.44 in Chiang Mai, well within the comfort zone.
I eat out twice a week at least, buy 'pricey' foods such as nuts and exotic fruits and cuts of meat and cheeses.
I run a micro Car (Smart Fortwo).
I won't bore you all with a breakdown of other costs, but I have money left over most months.
OK I don't date anyone here, I would in Chiang Mai, and ditch the car -but have a scooter 
I mention all this because I'm lurking here to see if I could get even more value for my retirement money in Thailand...
All things considered, especially the possibility of being scammed on a daily basis at a low-level, think I'm better off in Portugal, for now. I have transited LOS for many years as airline crew, I think I got a fair bit of a feel for the place in that time...
Thailand is like just about everywhere, serious money is going to make all the difference!


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## visual effects editor

deleted


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## dhream

One other surprise is that Laos is more expensive than Thailand! I have just done a quick cost comparison on the famed numbeo website.

The thing about numbeo to remember is that it's algorithms reference housing affordability (for example) to the local average earnings. Thus any comparison needs to take account of variables like that. 

It is very useful for calculating the price range of everyday necessities, and the ability to convert these to any currency you want. It's also fun to compare city with city. Even within a given country.

Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai for example... Chiang Rai wins! But I worry that there's enough to do there without becoming bored or getting some kind of small town cabin fever.

Finally for the sake of completeness and fairness, I must add that my rent in Portugal is low by Portuguese standards EUR225 p/m B9530.84 and although my gaff is comfortable, clean, and quiet, it is utterly charmless 'cell-like' is a kind description, especially when the blinds are down to stave off the summer heat, thereby blotting out the sunshine and what passes for a view in this mostly industrialized town (what's the point of being here then, I ask myself!)

If i were to 'upgrade' to the average 'city centre' rent it would be EUR450 B19061.68 which suddenly makes Chiang Mai look much more appealing.

The one thing I have found that is most troubling with moving from an affluent country to a less 'fortunate' one is that the locals have this black & white mindset of 'farang = rich' even in Portugal, but much more so in Thailand, a doltish line of thought, it is extremely frustrating. Which is why, at least, in my opinion, it is really best if one can somehow eke out a passive income in retirement if one is not already wealthy, as one will be expected to pay 'farang' rates for most of the things that matter, such as the roof over one's head. It's unjust, but its the way of the world...


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## stednick

dhream said:


> The one thing I have found that is most troubling with moving from an affluent country to a less 'fortunate' one is that the locals have this black & white mindset of 'farang = rich' even in Portugal, but much more so in Thailand, a doltish line of thought, it is extremely frustrating. Which is why, at least, in my opinion, it is really best if one can somehow eke out a passive income in retirement if one is not already wealthy, as one will be expected to pay 'farang' rates for most of the things that matter, such as the roof over one's head. It's unjust, but its the way of the world...


Just a quick comment on the above passage concerning the locals black & white mindset ...

*Their mindset is true. Farang are rich.*

Wealth is a relative thing, and, comparatively speaking, the falang are rich. Very, very rich, by comparison to the local population.

The farang are so rich that they can afford to live in a foreign country. They are able to travel outside the confines of their birth country, enjoy exorbitant vacations here and there, and then live wherever they choose. 

The locals, on the other hand, do not have the wealth nor the luxury to travel and live where they choose. They are pretty much prisoners of their birthplace and the opportunities available to them as members of their birth country. 

Visit your Embassy and look at the ridiculously long lines stretching around the block of the local population with the hopes of receiving a visa to go to another country, knowing full well that their chances are slim, almost futile. 

Don't begrudge them their attitudes. Be thankful that the shoe is not on the other foot. There but for the grace of God go I.


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## dhream

stednick,
You are right.
I read my post again, I know it may seem 'whiney' in the context you describe.
I think what I was trying to get at is that many expats are 'financial refugees' in some respects.
Some are insanely wealthy such as Chiang Mai's celebrated investment guru Marc Faber, many of us are not. 
I myself took a pasting in the GFC and had to leave Australia to hope to ever recover from it, such are the cost pressures there now. I have also run into problems with my pension fund there having done so, and have lost a further A$17,000 this year in THAT fiasco.
I have yet to see my plans here come to fruition, and I am existing purely on my dwindling life savings, I am not asking for sympathy, just pointing out that my reality has caused me to frame things from a needy perspective of late, but maybe it is time to change my perspective!

I Am grateful for the fact that I can move at will, however, even in rich countries, we are not free to blithely roam. Unless one has dual citizenship, desirable qualifications, megabucks, or access by marriage, prospects remain limited for millions of Europeans, Americans, and Antipodeans as well as those who are truly impoverished.

The central point you made still stands, and yes, by comparison I am indeed a fortunate man, for which I again try to remind myself to be grateful!


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## Bob2

JustChris said:


> 45,000 Baht a month is more than enough especially if you eat Thai food! As far as 15,000 Baht a month for a condo that is a little steep unless you want a luxury condo with service in the city proper. I live just out side of the city and the village next to me has beautiful one bedroom apartments with a fitness club, sauna, first class swimming pool convenient to everything for just 6,000 to 8,000 per month. If you want something in the city I know of a few places that go for 8,000 Bath per month that have cooking facilities, gardens, dinning area and separate bedroom and balcony.


Hi Chris.

Are you still on the forum? Could you please PM me details of the village with the 1 bed apartments? Recently, Thailand has really caught my imagination! 

Thanks,
Bob.


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## dhream

Bob2 said:


> Hi Chris.
> 
> Are you still on the forum? Could you please PM me details of the village with the 1 bed apartments? Recently, Thailand has really caught my imagination!
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob.


Bob, 
I've now got 'boots on the ground', I have been very actively looking at all sorts of places in and around CM from gated communities, to old-style condos with generous rooms but dated fittings, and the latest developments (tiny Ikea-type boxes, surprise-surprise!) and unless we're talking way out of town, this sounds like a slight exaggeration. The only property I've seen for B8000 a month is a Thai house in a Thai neighbourhood, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it does mean accepting a Thai kitchen and Thai bathroom, Thai landlord, and Thai ways of resolving tenancy issues, which my westernised Thai agent bluntly points out is not all that great in our eyes, nor in some Thai eyes either, plus Thai neighbours, which, lovely as they are; means... total Thai immersion. 

Not many newcomers can handle that, they need to ease in -often with the help of a Thai life partner... but as someone who is searching for budget but decent accommodation myself, I am more than happy to eat my words, so come on Chris, what's the story!


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## dhream

To quote myself: 'All things considered, especially the possibility of being scammed on a daily basis at a low-level, think I'm better off in Portugal, for now. I have transited BKK for many years as airline crew, I think I got a fair bit of a feel for the place in that time...'

So embarrassing to read this, even given the many times in Thailand I may pay more, I am way way better off here with an Australian dollar pension, than in ANYWHERE the euro is the currency... I must have been drunk on the excellent Portuguese wine!


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## Bob2

dhream said:


> Bob,
> I've now got 'boots on the ground', I have been very actively looking at all sorts of places in and around CM from gated communities, to old-style condos with generous rooms but dated fittings, and the latest developments (tiny Ikea-type boxes, surprise-surprise!) and unless we're talking way out of town, this sounds like a slight exaggeration. The only property I've seen for B8000 a month is a Thai house in a Thai neighbourhood, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it does mean accepting a Thai kitchen and Thai bathroom, Thai landlord, and Thai ways of resolving tenancy issues, which my westernised Thai agent bluntly points out is not all that great in our eyes, nor in some Thai eyes either, plus Thai neighbours, which, lovely as they are; means... total Thai immersion.
> 
> Not many newcomers can handle that, they need to ease in -often with the help of a Thai life partner... but as someone who is searching for budget but decent accommodation myself, I am more than happy to eat my words, so come on Chris, what's the story!




Hi there Dhream.

I was reading one of your earlier posts this morning and you were in Portugal at the time (incidentally, another place I am interested in!). So you are now in Thailand! Wow, great stuff! Is it everything you expected it to be? So how much, would you say, should I expect to pay for a nice apartment like the one Chris mentioned, with a shared pool, sauna and gym? Is 6000 TNB per month out of the question?

Bob.


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