# very new to this! any information will be amazing.



## bittercold

hello, all, i'm an american citizen, i live in milwaukee wisconsin with two close friends of mine, i'd like to tell you my plans and get some information. i've skimmed through pages and pages of posts on here and i've been studying the topic online for a while but i'd like to get some real talk from someone who has been there done that so to speak.

i'm 23 years old, and i'll give you a little backstory because i've noticed alot of things discussed on here that doing so might enlighten someone to my position on the possible move. i've grown up in alot of poverty and squalor, never had much money, been homeless many many times, worked odd jobs and serious jobs, i have aloooooot of visible tattoos and i am somewhat of a social outcast despite my well to do intentions and firm grasp on education. the reason i bring this up is because i read about 'oh you shouldn't be expecting this or that when you move to japan don't expect a life of luxury', so far my life has been nothing luxurious, i've slept in tents and in abandoned water facilities from the 50's, i've slept on benches, couches, you name it, so nothing could be 'worse' to me. throughout all of this, i have a very keen lust for adventure, for culture, for experiences, i've loved living my life my own way, outside of society, experiencing what i can. i have a pretty intense disdain for my western society and most of the people who i meet in the places i've lived (all over the country) and recently it has started to get so bad that i feel so restless and i can't quite take it anymore, and i decided i wanted to get away from this place.

japan has always held a place in my heart, be it the anime i saw as a kid, the horror movies, the books, the cuisine the documentaries, all of it, i've always been fascinated and in love, so the idea to relocate arose to me and my only and close friends quickly agreed to the idea and we were very excited. so i started researching this. my wants and dreams for this are to stay here for a while, make some money together with my friends, take online courses for japanese language and writing, or a class or rosetta stone, whatever i can do to pick it up fast (i'm a very fast learner with these things so it won't be an issue) and then try to get it together.

now this isn't quite for business, it's just for personal happiness and my question is is this possible? and how do i go about such a monumental change? i've been reading about visa's, residence, citizenship, but i'm not quite sure i understand all of it.

i understand that to go to japan for 90 days as a tourist requires a passport and such, but how does one go about staying longer? what would be the process we'd go through to relocate to japan from america and stay as long as we like, get jobs, settle in and just experience a new culture and what it has to offer? 

so far from what i've gleaned from websites and posts here, and please correct me if i'm wrong, i really want to know how the process works, is that you can just go there as a tourist for 90 days, then keep extending it? or do you get a 'workers visa' or something and start working? once you've established it at this level, do you just continue to renew the time you're allowed to stay until you've finally reached the point where you want to/can become a resident? that's how it seems to me, but i really really want this, and many things i read make being able to stay there and enjoy yourself seem like a serious battle, is this the case? i'm willing to deal with many hardships and red tape in stride if it means we can start a new life in such a beautiful and cultural place. 

is it possible for a couple nobodies/normal people to move to japan and make a life for themselves? 

i'd really love your input or your stories, and details about how the process works as i'm still confused about the legalities of it all. thank you!


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## Bevdeforges

Hi and welcome to the forum. While I don't have any direct experience with moving to Japan, I have moved around internationally quite a bit, and I have a friend who just moved to Japan last year.

Basically, the big problem with your plan is that if you go over on a temporary visitor's visa, you can't just keep renewing it. To stay for a longer term in Japan (or most other countries) you need to have a "long stay visa" - one that will allow you to actually take up residence there. And that normally requires you to have a job offer or some other reason or project to be in Japan for a specified period of time.

The Japanese embassy has a handy chart that outlines the various types of visas they offer: MOFA: A Guide to Japanese Visas - Types and Categories of Visa

According to my friend (British) who has recently moved there, they seem to be quite strict about the requirements for visas. It's possible to get around some of the more onerous requirements if you have a large employer backing you, but otherwise you must apply for your visa from outside Japan and have your job lined up before you apply.

It's probably not a bad idea to make an initial exploratory trip as a tourist first to see how you like the country - and to look around a bit to see what the job market over there is really like.
Cheers,
Bev


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## bittercold

Bevdeforges said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum. While I don't have any direct experience with moving to Japan, I have moved around internationally quite a bit, and I have a friend who just moved to Japan last year.
> 
> Basically, the big problem with your plan is that if you go over on a temporary visitor's visa, you can't just keep renewing it. To stay for a longer term in Japan (or most other countries) you need to have a "long stay visa" - one that will allow you to actually take up residence there. And that normally requires you to have a job offer or some other reason or project to be in Japan for a specified period of time.
> 
> The Japanese embassy has a handy chart that outlines the various types of visas they offer: ...
> 
> According to my friend (British) who has recently moved there, they seem to be quite strict about the requirements for visas. It's possible to get around some of the more onerous requirements if you have a large employer backing you, but otherwise you must apply for your visa from outside Japan and have your job lined up before you apply.
> 
> It's probably not a bad idea to make an initial exploratory trip as a tourist first to see how you like the country - and to look around a bit to see what the job market over there is really like.
> Cheers,
> Bev


so basically our only choice is to visit for a few months and scope out jobs and then reapply if we catch something? or do we absolutely have to transfer in for the most part? is it 100% that we will have to return to the US before making any sort of elongated stay? thanks!


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## larabell

If you want 100% accurate information, you're in the wrong place -- you should visit your nearest Japanese Consulate because the rules to change from time-to-time. For example, when I moved here, there was absolutely no way to renew a tourist visa or exchange it for any other type of visa. But recently, someone on this forum mentioned being able to change their tourist visa into a working visa without leaving the country and after looking at the MOJ web page, I'm thinking that in some cases it may be possible after all.

But the general rule that most of us have come to believe is that MOJ requires that you leave the country on your tourist visa and re-enter the country on your working visa (once you have one). You don't have to go back to the US -- you only have to leave Japan. Many who came over when teaching jobs were plentiful took a week's "vacation" in Korea (about an hour from here by air) in order to get their working visas once they landed a job.

Note, however, that MOJ officially discourages visitors on tourist visas from looking for work while they are here so if you take that route, you probably don't want to tell the guy at the Immigration counter that you're coming over to look for work. Just tell him you're coming to see Japan. Then if, perchance, you happen to find a job you can do whatever is necessary to get your working visa.

Note, too, that while there are probably places that will hire you without a visa, they're probably not places you'd like to work and if you're caught, you can be barred from entering Japan for 5 years (or more, in some cases).

A tourist visa cannot be extended (again, there is some anecdotal evidence that the rules have changed there as well, but... I have yet to see that published anywhere so if you're relying on the answer, a visit to an Embassy or Consulate is in order). You *can*, however, keep entering Japan on 90-day temporary visas ad-nauseum. I've heard that recently MOJ has been cracking down on people working on a series of 90-day tourist visas but, of course, if you weren't working, I doubt they'd stop you from coming back. The downside there is that you'd need a lot of money to survive without regular income and to keep flying to Korea (or elsewhere) every three months or so.

BTW, a 90-day temporary visa is OK for business, too, so maybe you could find a job in the States that would let you make long-term visits over here -- or even move you here.

If you absolutely need a job to survive... you're going to have a hard time unless you have some special skill that some company in Japan (or the Japan subsidiary of some non-Japanese company) really needs. The days where you could just show up and find a job teaching English are over -- at least for now. The economy is doing rather badly here and the recent bankruptcy of one of the largest English schools in Japan has left a glut of mostly-qualified English-speaking teachers looking for work. If you're in finance, you may have better luck. I read an article that said a lot of ex-pats in the area of banking and finance were bailing out of Japan and going home. Of course, you'd need to be more-or-less fluent in Japanese already so that may not work for you.

I also wouldn't count on "odd jobs", either. In order for a company to sponsor someone for a working visa, they need to show that the sponsored employee will be making as much or more than a Japanese native would be paid for the same job. That means, again, that you need that all-important skill that simply cannot be found in Japan.

Unless... you came here, met a Japanese woman, and got married (I assume you're a male -- reverse the genders if that's a faulty assumption ). I wouldn't recommend that as a *plan*... but it's certainly one way to get a long-term renewable visa without first landing a job.

If you were British or Australian, you could come over for a year and work part-time on a working holiday visa. But that's not available to US citizens. You could sign up for a course in Ikebana or Japanese calligraphy and come over for longer than 90 days, but you would not be able to work legally.

Another thing to keep in mind that you're far less likely to land a job in Japan with "a lot of visible tatoos". In Japan, tatoos are still associated with organized crime gangs and few Japanese will ignore the potential stigma associated with having an employee who looks like a "yakuza" gang member. Sure, that sucks -- but that's the way it is here.

I'm not sure what to tell you -- based on what you've said so far, your chances aren't all that good unless you like arranging flowers and can survive without an income for a year or two. Sorry...


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## bittercold

larabell said:


> If you want 100% accurate information, you're in the wrong place -- you should visit your nearest Japanese Consulate because the rules to change from time-to-time. For example, when I moved here, there was absolutely no way to renew a tourist visa or exchange it for any other type of visa. But recently, someone on this forum mentioned being able to change their tourist visa into a working visa without leaving the country and after looking at the MOJ web page, I'm thinking that in some cases it may be possible after all.
> 
> But the general rule that most of us have come to believe is that MOJ requires that you leave the country on your tourist visa and re-enter the country on your working visa (once you have one). You don't have to go back to the US -- you only have to leave Japan. Many who came over when teaching jobs were plentiful took a week's "vacation" in Korea (about an hour from here by air) in order to get their working visas once they landed a job.
> 
> Note, however, that MOJ officially discourages visitors on tourist visas from looking for work while they are here so if you take that route, you probably don't want to tell the guy at the Immigration counter that you're coming over to look for work. Just tell him you're coming to see Japan. Then if, perchance, you happen to find a job you can do whatever is necessary to get your working visa.
> 
> Note, too, that while there are probably places that will hire you without a visa, they're probably not places you'd like to work and if you're caught, you can be barred from entering Japan for 5 years (or more, in some cases).
> 
> A tourist visa cannot be extended (again, there is some anecdotal evidence that the rules have changed there as well, but... I have yet to see that published anywhere so if you're relying on the answer, a visit to an Embassy or Consulate is in order). You *can*, however, keep entering Japan on 90-day temporary visas ad-nauseum. I've heard that recently MOJ has been cracking down on people working on a series of 90-day tourist visas but, of course, if you weren't working, I doubt they'd stop you from coming back. The downside there is that you'd need a lot of money to survive without regular income and to keep flying to Korea (or elsewhere) every three months or so.
> 
> BTW, a 90-day temporary visa is OK for business, too, so maybe you could find a job in the States that would let you make long-term visits over here -- or even move you here.
> 
> If you absolutely need a job to survive... you're going to have a hard time unless you have some special skill that some company in Japan (or the Japan subsidiary of some non-Japanese company) really needs. The days where you could just show up and find a job teaching English are over -- at least for now. The economy is doing rather badly here and the recent bankruptcy of one of the largest English schools in Japan has left a glut of mostly-qualified English-speaking teachers looking for work. If you're in finance, you may have better luck. I read an article that said a lot of ex-pats in the area of banking and finance were bailing out of Japan and going home. Of course, you'd need to be more-or-less fluent in Japanese already so that may not work for you.
> 
> I also wouldn't count on "odd jobs", either. In order for a company to sponsor someone for a working visa, they need to show that the sponsored employee will be making as much or more than a Japanese native would be paid for the same job. That means, again, that you need that all-important skill that simply cannot be found in Japan.
> 
> Unless... you came here, met a Japanese woman, and got married (I assume you're a male -- reverse the genders if that's a faulty assumption ). I wouldn't recommend that as a *plan*... but it's certainly one way to get a long-term renewable visa without first landing a job.
> 
> If you were British or Australian, you could come over for a year and work part-time on a working holiday visa. But that's not available to US citizens. You could sign up for a course in Ikebana or Japanese calligraphy and come over for longer than 90 days, but you would not be able to work legally.
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind that you're far less likely to land a job in Japan with "a lot of visible tatoos". In Japan, tatoos are still associated with organized crime gangs and few Japanese will ignore the potential stigma associated with having an employee who looks like a "yakuza" gang member. Sure, that sucks -- but that's the way it is here.
> 
> I'm not sure what to tell you -- based on what you've said so far, your chances aren't all that good unless you like arranging flowers and can survive without an income for a year or two. Sorry...


ha, you've actually given me some good news, thank you alot for that in depth information. i can survive in almost any situation like i was saying before, it's the experiences i'm after, living well has never been handed to me, or even living moderately, so i'm not so worried about that, only worried about the abillity to show up and try!


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