# Catalan question



## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

Perhaps someone would be kind enough to help with a question (almost certainly the first of many!). We are intending to move to Spain and are about to begin the process of deciding exactly where to live. For a number of reasons, Catalonia attracts, particularly around Barcelona. However, we are slightly concerned that learning Catalonian would be desirable/necessary. We are learning Spanish at the moment but the thought of a second language is daunting. Any comments on the language situation in this area would be much appreciated.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi & Welcome

I don't know the Catalan area well, others will surely advise but round here its Valeciano but you don't need it and I use only Spanish and Spanglish. The locals grumble words in Valenciano to each other but its mostly the older people all of which speak Spanish mostly and are happy with me using Spanish. My OH's family all speak fluent Valenciano but hardly ever use it.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2012)

steve_in_spain said:


> Hi & Welcome
> 
> I don't know the Catalan area well, others will surely advise but round here its Valeciano but you don't need it and I use only Spanish and Spanglish. The locals grumble words in Valenciano to each other but its mostly the older people all of which speak Spanish mostly and are happy with me using Spanish. My OH's family all speak fluent Valenciano but hardly ever use it.


Thanks. That's interesting. This is the kind of detail one doesn't think about in the early stages of planning but which becomes urgent as maps are produced and itineraries planned.....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

meetloaf said:


> Perhaps someone would be kind enough to help with a question (almost certainly the first of many!). We are intending to move to Spain and are about to begin the process of deciding exactly where to live. For a number of reasons, Catalonia attracts, particularly around Barcelona. However, we are slightly concerned that learning Catalonian would be desirable/necessary. We are learning Spanish at the moment but the thought of a second language is daunting. Any comments on the language situation in this area would be much appreciated.


Catalan is very much in use in Catalonia. Many schools teach only in Catalan I believe. There are more Spanish speakers in Barcelona, and while everyone can speak Spanish many don't want to for various reasons, and it should be remembered that Catalan is many people's FIRST language. As a foreigner you may be given some leeway, but when I was living in Valls after a few months people were beginning to tell me that enough was enough and when was I going to learn Catalan...


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Catalan is very much in use in Catalonia. Many schools teach only in Catalan I believe. There are more Spanish speakers in Barcelona, and while everyone can speak Spanish many don't want to for various reasons, and it should be remembered that Catalan is many people's FIRST language. As a foreigner you may be given some leeway, but when I was living in Valls after a few months people were beginning to tell me that enough was enough and when was I going to learn Catalan...


This is pretty much what we've been hearing from other sources but leaves me wondering how the British ex-pat community in Catalonia copes?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

meetloaf said:


> This is pretty much what we've been hearing from other sources but leaves me wondering how the British ex-pat community in Catalonia copes?


The people I was with all learnt a fair degree of Spanish, but we were all English teachers which probably makes us fairly good language students. None of us learnt Catalan for various reasons, one of them being that none of us had plans for staying more than a couple of years. That did mean that complaints were made to us by neighbours and firiends every so often. This was over 20 years ago, but as I understand it more Catalan is taught now than ever in schools, and those who want independance are just as noisy as ever!


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Your children will learn primary catalan as its an autonamo region 
The problems that arises fron this is tbe spanish dont undwrstand catalan so it does cause quite a problem say talking to anyone outside of catalonia inc madrid this was a major concern as we didnt realise that you had to speak in.catalan
They do start teaching spanish at ages 8upwards but primary catalan this also caused a problem with homework ,letters all your daily business most catalans will speak spanish but they dont like to as they feel they are not part of spain
If i had known what i know now i would have moved to a spanish speaking part of spain as the peopke are nicer and more tolerent although in saying that most people here especially the young are a lot more tolerent than the die hard catalans hope this helps


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## barca (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi meetloaf - as a foreigner you will be fine speaking Castellano. Learning Catalan is desirable but certainly not necesssary.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

barca said:


> Hi meetloaf - as a foreigner you will be fine speaking Castellano. Learning Catalan is desirable but certainly not necesssary.


Also I think it depends which circles you move in. Certainly with children in the state system you'll have a lot more contact (teacher's meetings, info from the school etc) than say, an English teacher teaching adults in an academy.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2012)

You've been very helpful, tks, and it's made us think more carefully about the whole issue of where to settle and the kind of things we need to be aware of and sensitive about. How did people manage before forums existed! -


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Another thought, go for a visit now when it is winter, that may influence your decision. Doesnt just apply to Cataluña, but to any area of choice.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2012)

Hepa said:


> Another thought, go for a visit now when it is winter, that may influence your decision. Doesnt just apply to Cataluña, but to any area of choice.


We head off to Spain at the beginning of July for an extended period touring in a motorhome to look before we settle. At the moment, we're not so much trying to find answers as to find the questions we need to ask in the first place! We're getting there, thanks to the helpful people on the forums.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

meetloaf said:


> We head off to Spain at the beginning of July for an extended period touring in a motorhome to look before we settle. At the moment, we're not so much trying to find answers as to find the questions we need to ask in the first place! We're getting there, thanks to the helpful people on the forums.


That sounds like fun! There is a ferry from Cadiz to the Canary Isles, we await your arrival


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2012)

The first round's on us - Seriously, having read some of the threads on different forums it's clear that for this move to succeed, it's essential to take each step carefully and make an informed decision rather than jumping in blind. The potential language problem is one which hadn't occured to us until it was raised by someone we know - and as the OP says above, in some circumstances there can be real problems whilst other people have no problems at all. We'll take a look when we're there and see what we think but at least we now know what to look out for. The chances of us learning Catalan are zero until we gain some competence in Spanish which, neither of us being natural linguists, will take some time.


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## gemz1550 (Feb 16, 2012)

Hi I actually just moved to Sitges in catalonia 30 minutes outside of barcelona. Catalan is used by the locals sometimes but mostly they speak Spanish and you shouldn't have a problem with just knowing Spanish. If you are invited into a Catalan family environment they would find very respectful if you knew the catalan language.


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## Casslar (Feb 16, 2012)

Forums rock! I am new to this one, there are some great insights being shared here.

We located to a first-language Valenciano area, but everyone we deal with in daily life does speak Castellano, and appreciate you making the effort to speak that - better than yelling in English! (In parts of the Costa Blanca let's just say the bar is not set to high already)

For us choosing a school which had Castellano as a first language was important, because being able to communicate effectively with school is so vital.... and worst case scenario we can scan and translate documents/letters. There is nowhere we have found for good online Valenciano-English translations, though you can get a lot done with a Catalan dictionary, and Google Translate offers Catalan (I'd never use it to communicate in Spanish but you can make some sense of the gobbledygook English it spews back the other way). 

Whether Valenciano is a true separate language or a dialect of Catalan is a debate I won't get into, but a final point worth pointing out is that if you know a bit of French it helps. Sounds nothing remotely alike, but I can sometimes figure out some written Valenciano, with a working knowledge of French and Spanish, as it seems to be someplace in between...


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Catalans are very independant they dont regard themselves as spanish and during the franco era thousands of spanish were brought into catalunya and vice versa to integrate the catalans into spain as a whole it didnt work and there is underlying resentment against anything spanish
Therefore the language (catalan)was forbidden in catalan schools while franco was alive on pain of punishment ro the student that spoke catalan 
When franco died catalan was the only language in the schools and its only recently they have introduced castellano as a secondary language 
So if you have children my advice is take them to a spanish region that speak spanish the amount of english families with children going back to the uk is enourmous
In the schools my son is in there was 18 english children we are down to 3 another thing you need to know is spanish children are a year behind english schools 
Hope this helps


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gemz1550 said:


> Hi I actually just moved to Sitges in catalonia 30 minutes outside of barcelona. Catalan is used by the locals sometimes but mostly they speak Spanish and you shouldn't have a problem with just knowing Spanish. If you are invited into a Catalan family environment they would find very respectful if you knew the catalan language.


It really depends where you are in Catalonia. As I said before, in Barcelona, and other areas, many people will be immigrants from other parts of Spain and will use Spanish as their first language. That was not my experience in Valls, and in a (very rural) place in Catalonia a couple of years ago we were shocked to find that the waiter had difficulty in translating a couple of items on the *Catalan only *menu that we were given. Sitges is a holiday area which wouldn't do very well if it only funtioned in Catalan. Even so I'm sure a lot of general information is given in Catalan.



> the language (catalan)was forbidden in catalan schools while franco was alive on pain of punishment ro the student that spoke catalan
> When franco died catalan was the only language in the schools and its only recently they have introduced castellano as a secondary language


Don't you mean that Spanish was the only language in schools when Franco died, and Catalan has been introduced?

And... Don't forget that being on holiday is one thing, but once you're living there you're part of the community and people will want to speak to you in Catalan. More importantly they will want you to speak their language sooner or later.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Yes sorry pesky your right spanish was spoken in catalan schools until franco died
Ive lived in catalonia for 8yrs and i still find they prefer you to speak catalan rather than spanish as its hard enough learning one language without the added problem of a second and my argument if it is 
IS that all schools should teach spanish from the word go and then introduce their autonamo language second 
This would make communicating a lot easier as an example my son speaks fluent catalan and i asked him to ring a company in madrid when he rang them frustratingley he said dad i can understand the lady but she cant understand me 
Also all government personal speak spanish even here 
And at school i had a major problem with helping with their homework i couldnt as i did not understand catalan
So when people move here they after be aware of the difficulties its easy to say hey come here sea sand and sangria
Regards tony


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

tonyinspain said:


> Yes sorry pesky your right spanish was spoken in catalan schools until franco died
> Ive lived in catalonia for 8yrs and i still find they prefer you to speak catalan rather than spanish as its hard enough learning one language without the added problem of a second and my argument if it is
> IS that all schools should teach spanish from the word go and then introduce their autonamo language second
> This would make communicating a lot easier as an example my son speaks fluent catalan and i asked him to ring a company in madrid when he rang them frustratingley he said dad i can understand the lady but she cant understand me
> ...


Your argument and the argument of a few million more who can see where this is leading!
What's happening is just what you're describing with your son. Kids go through the school system without ever coming to grips with Spanish, so they can not function properly outside of the Catalan border. Crazy


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

tonyinspain said:


> So if you have children my advice is take them to a spanish region that speak spanish the amount of english families with children going back to the uk is enourmous
> In the schools my son is in there was 18 english children we are down to 3 another thing you need to know is spanish children are a year behind english schools
> Hope this helps


I just wanted to ask you about this. It's the first time I've heard anybody say that Spanish schools are "behind" schools in the UK. In fact, I'd always been led to believe that although the two systems are very different that Spanish schools were likely to be "ahead" of the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I just wanted to ask you about this. It's the first time I've heard anybody say that Spanish schools are "behind" schools in the UK. In fact, I'd always been led to believe that although the two systems are very different that Spanish schools were like to be "ahead" of the UK.



Yes, I've never heard that??

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I just wanted to ask you about this. It's the first time I've heard anybody say that Spanish schools are "behind" schools in the UK. In fact, I'd always been led to believe that although the two systems are very different that Spanish schools were like to be "ahead" of the UK.


they're certainly not behind in our area 

as you know I've until recently taught GCSE maths & I know for sure that a lot of the maths my dd is doing in what would be her GCSE year if she was in the UK system isn't on the GCSE syllabus - it's first year A level stuff

also yesterday my 12 year old met a distant cousin who would be in the same year of school as her, and as she has some of her school books here with her in the UK we were able to compare - again, topics she has done in geography in Spain haven't yet been covered by her cousin here in the UK


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

It is right children here are taught 1yr behind the uk its surprising from our school how many children (english) have gone back to the uk to finish their education and found that they are actually behind a year
My eldest finish school here to go back and join the army and they said he wasnt upto scratch and had to go on a course to get his education upto speed
In saying this i have no problems with the school here they are brilliant but this is what ive heard from people that have gone back and returned back here
One friend went for three months and when she came back explained it to us she has since returned to the uk so her daughter can finish her schooling to go on to collage as a vetrinary assistant 
So it might be worth checking with other people on here about this
I can only go by what other people and myself have had to do to see our children are educated to the best of my ability


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## Barry Davys (Aug 2, 2008)

Hi guys, Living in working in Barcelona and the Costa Brava I find that Spanish is normally accepted. However, a polite Bon dia (Catalan) helps and if you can learn just a few words to acknowledge that it is a separate language you will be fine. 

The exception to this is if you have young children. They will learn Catalan. Normally the parents continue in English and the school in Catalan. Other friends will speak Spanish to them. Multi-lingual children is fine by me though. I just wish I was multi-lingual


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

meetloaf said:


> We head off to Spain at the beginning of July for an extended period touring in a motorhome to look before we settle. At the moment, we're not so much trying to find answers as to find the questions we need to ask in the first place! We're getting there, thanks to the helpful people on the forums.


Now THAT'S what I call a perceptive comment!


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

So did you eventually move to Catalonia?


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2014)

mike kelly said:


> So did you eventually move to Catalonia?


I wish!

We've been trapped here because OH has had what seemed like endless hospital appointments. He understandably didn't want to start again, especially in what at the moment is a foreign country. It's been frustrating, to say the least of it. Now all that's behind us we can start again. It's not quite going back to the beginning though it feels like it sometimes but we've learned a huge amount over the past 18 months. Your post was timely as we sail from Rosslare on Wednesday. The Meetloaves are heading for Spain again!

We explored as far south as Andalucia last time out and loved it but felt it was too far south for convenience. We always come back in our minds to the area around Barcelona, which has it all as far as we're concerned. Any input from you about the area would be welcomed.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

meetloaf said:


> Perhaps someone would be kind enough to help with a question (almost certainly the first of many!). We are intending to move to Spain and are about to begin the process of deciding exactly where to live. For a number of reasons, Catalonia attracts, particularly around Barcelona. However, we are slightly concerned that learning Catalonian would be desirable/necessary. We are learning Spanish at the moment but the thought of a second language is daunting. Any comments on the language situation in this area would be much appreciated.


As catalan I must tell you some things.don't be afraid if you dont speak catalan
even if you dont speak well spanish. no problem. in few months you will learn enough to understand the people in both languages specially if you want to live integrated in catalan/spanish area and you watch local tv. people here is friendly and will help you. good luck and welcome .


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## ivorra (Sep 24, 2008)

I agree with mickbcn, this has been our experience having lived now in Catalonia for more than 12 years (although I'm not so sure about learning to understand languages 'in a few months' - in my case read 'decades' for 'months'!). For British people who want to know a little more about the background to this fascinating country, I recommend the work of the British journalist and author Matthew Tree. He has lived here for more than 25 years and tries to present the Catalan perspective to an English speaking readership. I won't post links as I know that can be tiresome on forums, but if his name is Googled, you can bring up links to his writing and to various YouTube video chats he has recorded.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

ivorra said:


> I agree with mickbcn, this has been our experience having lived now in Catalonia for more than 12 years (although I'm not so sure about learning to understand languages 'in a few months' - in my case read 'decades' for 'months'!). For British people who want to know a little more about the background to this fascinating country, I recommend the work of the British journalist and author Matthew Tree. He has lived here for more than 25 years and tries to present the Catalan perspective to an English speaking readership. I won't post links as I know that can be tiresome on forums, but if his name is Googled, you can bring up links to his writing and to various YouTube video chats he has recorded.


3 of my ex waitres.one from Russia other from Ukraine and other from Poland when they arrive here to work in my bar don't know one single word in spanish or catalan.after 6 month working in the kitchen with my wife they speak one aceptable spanish . and in one year more they speak well catalan and spanish.However many spaniards after 40 years or more living here don't speak one single word in catalan (my wife for example. hehehe).but no problem.
I like Matthew Tree .I read his articles in catalan newspapers and some times i see him in tv. he is very popular in Catalonia.


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