# population/town sizes



## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

Anyone willing to hazard an estimate on how big the year-round population of a coastal town would need to be to warrant the kind of amenities/conveniences I think I'd find critical to day to day living? All would need to be centrally located...within walking distance for someone living in the center of town or nearby. 

I'm thinking: A good sized market at least once, preferably twice a week.
At least one large well-stocked grocery store/supermarket open 6 days a week.
Several good cafes and restaurants.
A good bakery
A good butcher shop.
A good fishmongers.
A green grocer.
A pharmacy.
And wine!

It would be great if I'd be likely to find doctor and dentist locally as well, but as long as I could get via public transport to a larger community with one, that would be OK. 

If I wanted several choices of bakers, butchers, etc...how large a town would be needed to support them? 

Thanks!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Melissa58275 said:


> Anyone willing to hazard an estimate on how big the year-round population of a coastal town would need to be to warrant the kind of amenities/conveniences I think I'd find critical to day to day living? All would need to be centrally located...within walking distance for someone living in the center of town or nearby.
> 
> I'm thinking: A good sized market at least once, preferably twice a week.
> At least one large well-stocked grocery store/supermarket open 6 days a week.
> ...


we have all of that - although 2 public libraries, 2 centros de salud (state - several private) quite a few dentists & 14 farmacias

Jávea has a population of just under 33,000

however - it is also a town of three distinct areas, & each of those distinct areas also has pretty much all you want

divide the total population by 3 (totally unscientific I know) - & you get 11,000 - so maybe that's a good starting point?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Apart from the fishmonger and green grocer, which are in the supermarkets, we have all that, plus a hospital . Our population is believed to be less than 4000. Valverde, El Hierro


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

Wow....in the U.S. I don't think one would find as much available unless towns were considerably larger than 10,000-11,000. And certainly not 4,000. 

Sounds as if, I'd be very likely to find what I want in anyplace with a pop of about 25,000 or so.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Melissa58275 said:


> Wow....in the U.S. I don't think one would find as much available unless towns were considerably larger than 10,000-11,000. And certainly not 4,000.
> 
> Sounds as if, I'd be very likely to find what I want in anyplace with a pop of about 25,000 or so.


There are only 9000 on the island, perhaps you should visit, I don't think we have any North Americans 

Photos on the link below


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Hepa said:


> There are only 9000 on the island, perhaps you should visit, I don't think we have any North Americans
> 
> Photos on the link below


I think the fact that your town of only 4000 people has all those facilities might be somewhat influenced by the fact that it is the main town on a tiny island of only 9000 inhabitants, and as such might not be a good indicator for Spain in general.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Our town has all those things, plus a library, health centre, two dentists, two vets, copious sports facilities and a cheese factory. Population 5,500.

We're 45 km from the coast - and from the nearest sizeable city, so we have to be self-sufficient.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

The population of our village is under 3000 but we have

A good sized market at least once, preferably twice a week.- Market is once a week and its small but a real good mix of products.
At least one large well-stocked grocery store/supermarket open 6 days a week. Large supermarket and smaller supermarket.
Several good cafes and restaurants. a mix of 14 bars and resturants in the village
A good bakery-yes 2
A good butcher shop.-yes 2
A good fishmongers. in the supermarket
A green grocer. yes and market and supermarket
A pharmacy. we have 3
And wine! lots of , supermarket and a number of local wine producers

We also have many other shops,a medical centre, school. a gym. outdoor swimming pool , a bank ,post office, we can get all we need in the village really but may want to travel for a bigger choice.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Chopera said:


> I think the fact that your town of only 4000 people has all those facilities might be somewhat influenced by the fact that it is the main town on a tiny island of only 9000 inhabitants, and as such might not be a good indicator for Spain in general.


You are absolutely spot on, I often wonder if we are in fact part of Spain  We also have flush toilets and electricity


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Don't know that answer to your particular question, but I live in a town on Costa Del Sol which is more or less split into three 'towns' with say 40,000 population in one part and 20,000 in each of the others. I live in one of the smaller parts. 

I am 5 minutes walk to the beach, and have all the amenities you list (including doctor and dentist) within a 2 minute walk. The public library is a 4 minute walk and the local train station is 6 min walk.

I have lived in 5 places in the area in the 26 years I have lived (early retired) in Spain. They varied from small in land town to a villa on the edge of open countryside 6 miles from the main town. I am in my present home for 13 years and find it perfect. I will almost certainly not move again.

Not sure why you asked but I hope this gives you something worthwhile to think about.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

One consideration that just popped through our mail box regards the post service, or lack of it.
Turns out that by royal decree if a area/urbanization/etc does not have at least 25 people per hectare or if there are less than 10 houses per hectare then the post office can choose to not give you a daily service to you home and the community will either have to stump up for a community locker box for mail or you will have to take out a box at the PO.

This may seem reasonable at first but given most properties in our urb are pushing 2000msq that leaves around 5-7 houses per hectare which would require an occupancy rate of 4-5 people per home. Event with a conservative 1000msq it will only just meet the 10 homes required and still need 2.5 people per home. I would imagine the numbers wouldn't differ a lot in most suburban areas either.
Then again they do like their high density living in Spain so it's not a huge problem in busier parts.

Then again if you are a clever councilor like ours are you just take all of the plots that were never built on and include them into the calculations. 

Of course this is optional to the local authorities discretion but since we moved in we have gone from a daily postal service to once a week, maybe twice if we are lucky and now have had this letter through our box saying that in October mail will stop and the community have to organise an alternative.

It's by no means the end of the world, many places have secure community mail boxes but if such a thing is implemented it will likely come from your pocket.

Funny how this comes after the ayuntamiento announced a one off 3grand tax for the urbs residents for sewerage works, which of course the residents don't want to or can't pay and recently made it known they wont pay it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pazcat said:


> One consideration that just popped through our mail box regards the post service, or lack of it.
> Turns out that by royal decree if a area/urbanization/etc does not have at least 25 people per hectare or if there are less than 10 houses per hectare then the post office can choose to not give you a daily service to you home and the community will either have to stump up for a community locker box for mail or you will have to take out a box at the PO.
> 
> This may seem reasonable at first but given most properties in our urb are pushing 2000msq that leaves around 5-7 houses per hectare which would require an occupancy rate of 4-5 people per home. Event with a conservative 1000msq it will only just meet the 10 homes required and still need 2.5 people per home. I would imagine the numbers wouldn't differ a lot in most suburban areas either.
> ...


We don't qualify for a daily mail service. We live on the fringe of our village (pop.1008) in a sparsely inhabited area and have to collect our mail from a communal facility a short drive away or go into Estepona to collect large packets an parcels.

So we are really happy to learn that we are very shortly to have a post office of our very own!!!

I think it is a measure of how we have changed since leaving the UK to think that something so mundane could give such joy...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> We don't qualify for a daily mail service. We live on the fringe of our village (pop.1008) in a sparsely inhabited area and have to collect our mail from a communal facility a short drive away or go into Estepona to collect large packets an parcels.
> 
> So we are really happy to learn that we are very shortly to have a post office of our very own!!!
> 
> I think it is a measure of how we have changed since leaving the UK to think that something so mundane could give such joy...


there are urbs in our town with no postal delivery service......... according to the padrón no-one lives there

they don't have street lights either, & in some cases have unmade roads - for the same reason


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> there are urbs in our town with no postal delivery service......... according to the padrón no-one lives there
> 
> they don't have street lights either, & in some cases have unmade roads - for the same reason


We have street lights every other day, taking turns with the next street. Only one side illuminated though...


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Like I said it's not a big deal but given the constant back and forth between the community and the town hall I have no idea how this is going play out. I don't mind a community box but it's a pain collecting the big stuff in town. I think they will still do priority mail deliveries though.

Also I'm glad to be renting here as it wont be coming from our pocket.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> Like I said it's not a big deal but given the constant back and forth between the community and the town hall I have no idea how this is going play out. I don't mind a community box but it's a pain collecting the big stuff in town. I think they will still do priority mail deliveries though.
> 
> Also I'm glad to be renting here as it wont be coming from our pocket.


postal deliveries are funded by the padrón afaik

I was expecting a delivery last week, and someone was home at all times 

of course it didn't arrive & I had an e-mail from correos on Monday to say that it would be delivered within 1-3 days

so it arrived yesterday - while I was at work & my daughters are now away, so no-one was home - & in fact wouldn't be all week

I tried phoning the number on the aviso but it was either engaged or not answered

then I saw my post lady delivering opposite where I work - I live & work on her route

I told her my problem - & she said 'what time do you get to work tomorrow? I'll get them to deliver it to you there!'

how's that for service?!


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

_How's that for service?_


A while ago I was expecting a deliver by courier. I got a call to say they were at my door. When I said I could be there within 15 mins. the guy asked where I was. 5 mins later he delivered the parcel to the bar where I was having coffee. 

I thought that was pretty good service too !


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> _How's that for service?_
> 
> 
> A while ago I was expecting a deliver by courier. I got a call to say they were at my door. When I said I could be there within 15 mins. the guy asked where I was. 5 mins later he delivered the parcel to the bar where I was having coffee.
> ...


I think being able to speak Spanish makes quite a difference tbh

I hear so many complaints about this that & the other - but most of the time it's just a lack of understanding - not about the system, just about what is being said

we had a receptionist at our salud who was known to most of the Brits as 'that sour-faced ·$%&'

the same one who one day, when she was trying to make me an appointment at the hospital but was having computer problems, told me that she knew I had to get back to work & not to worry, she'd drop a note into the bar where she knew I took my coffee 

the note was there the next morning when I ordered my coffee

eta - & this isn't a tiny little town ........


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

larryzx said:


> Don't know that answer to your particular question, but I live in a town on Costa Del Sol which is more or less split into three 'towns' with say 40,000 population in one part and 20,000 in each of the others. I live in one of the smaller parts.
> 
> I am 5 minutes walk to the beach, and have all the amenities you list (including doctor and dentist) within a 2 minute walk. The public library is a 4 minute walk and the local train station is 6 min walk.
> 
> ...


Hi Larry: Thanks for the info. I asked because, as I research retirement options in Spain and elsewhere, I'm having trouble figuring out if I want to be in a large city, small city, small town or what. I THINK what I want is a close-knit neighborhood , with all amenities nearby, in a city OR a town/village of sufficient size to allow me to walk to all places I would want or need, including several good choices of cafes/restaurants, etc. What I didn't know was how big that town would have to be to likely have the amenities I wanted. Based on the info I've gotten, it seems that anything over about 20,000 pop. would be pretty certain to do the trick and in some cases, it could be much smaller. Now, if I can just figure out which parts of Spain (or Portugal or Italy) seem most promising in terms of other factors...affordability, year-round climate, accessibility, etc...I'll know where to focus my initial explorations! I am finding it surprisingly difficult and rather overwhelming to contemplate all the wonderful options.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Melissa58275 said:


> Hi Larry: Thanks for the info. I asked because, as I research retirement options in Spain and elsewhere, I'm having trouble figuring out if I want to be in a large city, small city, small town or what. I THINK what I want is a close-knit neighborhood , with all amenities nearby, in a city OR a town/village of sufficient size to allow me to walk to all places I would want or need, including several good choices of cafes/restaurants, etc. What I didn't know was how big that town would have to be to likely have the amenities I wanted. Based on the info I've gotten, it seems that anything over about 20,000 pop. would be pretty certain to do the trick and in some cases, it could be much smaller. Now, if I can just figure out which parts of Spain (or Portugal or Italy) seem most promising in terms of other factors...affordability, year-round climate, accessibility, etc...I'll know where to focus my initial explorations! I am finding it surprisingly difficult and rather overwhelming to contemplate all the wonderful options.


Well I will say that while Cadiz has around 120000 people it is a treasure. It has everything that you could need and according to other foreigners here, it has a very reasonable night life. I mean bars with excellent guitarists, but sadly for me all after 11pm, when I am generally tucked up in bed. But what I do admire here is that you can find people from 20 to 90 happy with a glass of beer or whatever, all chattering and enjoying their evening. My summer resolution is to practise staying up until 11pm.
Best of luck with your hunt.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> postal deliveries are funded by the padrón afaik
> 
> I was expecting a delivery last week, and someone was home at all times
> 
> ...


From what I was reading I think they are funded by the padron, certainly it is the numbers on the padron that are used in their decision.

I have had no problems with Correos, I think they have been great and all packages large and small but one have been delivered to my door which is more than I could of asked for.
I think it would be a miss to blame them for what is going on here now but the service has declined.


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