# Banning Dogs in Communities



## oaktree (Jan 14, 2016)

My community is increasingly becoming annoyed by tenants (not owners) who have dogs that yap at all times during the day. I'm told we cannot ban dogs under a Community Rule but we can use the rule that states tenants/owners must not act in a manner that is not acceptable to the community owners.
Does anyone live on a community where dogs have been banned under community rules?
If so, was there a problem getting it agreed at the AGM?
Thanks for reading this.


----------



## GinaRockey (Jun 26, 2016)

Do owners dogs not bark then ?


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

oaktree said:


> My community is increasingly becoming annoyed by tenants (not owners) who have dogs that yap at all times during the day. I'm told we cannot ban dogs under a Community Rule but we can use the rule that states tenants/owners must not act in a manner that is not acceptable to the community owners.
> Does anyone live on a community where dogs have been banned under community rules?
> If so, was there a problem getting it agreed at the AGM?
> Thanks for reading this.


I hope it is not agreed. Dogs do not have to bark. They bark for a reason, usually because they are left alone too long. Proper care and training, not only where barking is a problem, but all-round good behaviour is the owner's responsibility.
A ban could deprive some poor old widow of the company of her much-loved lapdog.
I'm rather glad I don't live in one of those communities where a set of people decide on what is and what is not 'acceptable' to others. I know not all communities are like that but we've had a couple of threads from posters wanting to know how to evict some person whose lifestyle deviates from the Horlicks and slippers, bed at ten o'clock, 'respectable' lifestyle.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as protective of my peace and tranquillity as anyone. But there are laws that protect people's peaceful enjoyment of their property and in my 'hood they are used and enforced, whether barking dogs or rowdy parties after a reasonable hour or frequent. The policia local have dealt very efficiently with that kind of nuisance.
By all means deal with the people whose dogs cause annoyance but a blanket ban is OTT and unfair on responsible dog owners. Ban dogs and the next thing will be some -one complaining about cat crap on their herbaceous border. Or canaries that tweet too much.


----------



## oaktree (Jan 14, 2016)

On my Community owners who are resident have agreed between themselves not to have dogs as the design of the complex causes barking to be echoed and amplified. We would like to have a restriction whereby new tenants cannot have dogs. Absentee owners are often told about the dogs but naturally prefer to rent premises to whoever will pay the rent irrespective of annoyance to residents.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Why not simply insist that, for those that rent their properties out, there is a no pet policy - which will be enforced.

Personally, I agree with @Mrypg9 - dogs should be trained (as should their owners).


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

A community _can_ ban dogs or anything it likes - but it would have to be for everyone - not just tenants


----------



## oaktree (Jan 14, 2016)

Thanks for the latest post. We tried to ban dogs by trying to amend the Community Rules but were told by the Administrator it would not be lawful. All residential owners are in favour of such a rule and most non-resident owners may agree. That only leaves the handful of non-resident owners who never seem to attend their premises. Does the change have to be agreed unanimously or just by a majority at a vote at the AGM? Has anyone been able to pass such a dog ban at their AGM?


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

oaktree said:


> Thanks for the latest post. We tried to ban dogs by trying to amend the Community Rules but were told by the Administrator it would not be lawful. All residential owners are in favour of such a rule and most non-resident owners may agree. That only leaves the handful of non-resident owners who never seem to attend their premises. Does the change have to be agreed unanimously or just by a majority at a vote at the AGM? Has anyone been able to pass such a dog ban at their AGM?


I hope it is unlawful. It is certainly discriminatory. I've got two large dogs which don't bark as they are rarely left alone for long but I would love to buy a property on your community and tell these people what to do with their ban. What are you going to do if an elderly couple move in with a beloved pet? Tell them they have to get rid of it?
I get the feeling that there is a little more to this than meets the eye as there seems to be a focus on 'tenants'.
Most of these communities seem to work well but the management format gives too much scope to those who love exercising a little power.


----------



## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Oaktree, you have a rude awakening coming, for heavens sake live and let live or alternatively buy some earplugs.


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

I would choose to rent or buy a flat in a community that had a ban on keeping dogs over one that didn't.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

A small group of people decide that people who want to buy or rent a property can't have a dog. 
If it were a pot bellied pig or small tiger such a ban would be reasonable but a ban on a well-behaved dog is not. 
If a dog misbehaves in any way, fouling, barking, out of control then that owner of that dog should be told to deal with the problem. Incessant barking can be dealt with by the policia local. Fouling can also be dealt with. Irresponsible dog owners are a pain in the arse, I don't dispute that. But why in God's name penalise responsible dog owners whose pets don't cause any trouble to anyone?
In some of these communities it seems there are opportunities for tin pot little dictators to interfere and lay down rules for other people's lives. What next, I wonder....no male overnight visitors for single women? No bikinis for the overweight at the communal pool? Ban sound systems if someone pays loud music? Where does it stop?
If there is a problem, deal with the source. If my neighbour's dog were to disturb me, I'd take it up with my neighbour. 
Deal with the people causing the problem. Leave others alone and get on with your lives.


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> If my neighbour's dog were to disturb me, I'd take it up with my neighbour.


Assuming your neighbour is a reasonable person, understands the problem and is capable of doing something about it.

I didn't buy a house I liked because a neighbour had three brainless yap-rats on the terrace that barked their stupid heads off every time a leaf moved on the other side of the village. I'm pretty sure that the dogs were untrainable, the owners wouldn't understand that their funny dogs were causing a problem and that I would be public enemy number one if I denounced them.


----------



## GinaRockey (Jun 26, 2016)

Hmm, what come first the chicken or the egg I wonder, a little like people buying houses on the flightpath of an airport then complaining about the noise, thorough checks around the area would seem to pay dividends here just by walking around, to be honest going by some of the comments here I'd rather live next door to battersea dogs home than some of you lol


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Exactly. You have to be an idiot to buy a house next to an airport or a busy pub if you want a quiet life.

I rejected another house for reasons including that it was next to the town's church bell tower and the bells were as loud as English church bells.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Uhmm, the OP asked if dogs could be banned on an urb, not for opinions about the whys and wherefores of doing so.
Just saying...


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Just as a matter of interest, I spent my childhood in a council flat in South London and no pets were allowed. This was a fairly normal rule for all local authority flats at the time. My mother, when in her seventies, bought a retirement home in a McCarthy and Stone complex in Cornwall and the rules stated that pets were only allowed with the written permission of the administrators. A few owners were permitted to have very small lapdogs. Bigger breeds were definitely not allowed. Here in Spain we live in a remote mountain area and we still hear dogs barking through the night, especially when the wild boar are roaming on the land (as they were last night!).


----------



## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> A small group of people decide that people who want to buy or rent a property can't have a dog.
> If it were a pot bellied pig or small tiger such a ban would be reasonable but a ban on a well-behaved dog is not.
> If a dog misbehaves in any way, fouling, barking, out of control then that owner of that dog should be told to deal with the problem. Incessant barking can be dealt with by the policia local. Fouling can also be dealt with. * Irresponsible dog owners are a pain in the arse, I don't dispute that. * But why in God's name penalise responsible dog owners whose pets don't cause any trouble to anyone?
> In some of these communities it seems there are opportunities for tin pot little dictators to interfere and lay down rules for other people's lives. What next, I wonder....no male overnight visitors for single women? No bikinis for the overweight at the communal pool? * Ban sound systems if someone pays loud music*? Where does it stop?
> ...


Although I sort of agree with your post sometimes it is just not possible to reason or even talk to people who are causing grievances or trouble because they either think they are in the right and can do no wrong or they are inconsiderate idiots that think they can do what they like. And if either of those is the case what do you do then because with people like that if you do report them more often than not they go out of their way to make other peoples lives a misery until something is done. 

If someone continually and consistently plays loud music, equipment can be confiscated, if a dog barks continuously all day no one is going to confiscate it are they.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> Just as a matter of interest, I spent my childhood in a council flat in South London and no pets were allowed. This was a fairly normal rule for all local authority flats at the time. My mother, when in her seventies, bought a retirement home in a McCarthy and Stone complex in Cornwall and the rules stated that pets were only allowed with the written permission of the administrators. A few owners were permitted to have very small lapdogs. Bigger breeds were definitely not allowed. Here in Spain we live in a remote mountain area and we still hear dogs barking through the night, especially when the wild boar are roaming on the land (as they were last night!).


It's also quite normal for private landlords to stipulate "no pets allowed" when renting properties.

I don't live in a complex of apartments or houses, nor do I live in the countryside. We are lucky that we don't, as a rule, get noise from barking dogs to the extent that it's a nuisance, and I never hear any at night. There have been a few instances in the past when neighbours have had a dog and left it on a terrace when they went out to work and it yapped all day long. I resolved them by speaking to the people involved (and once by sticking my head out of the window at midnight and yelling "shut your dog up" in Spanish, but luckily the neighbours were reasonable about it and the noise stopped. It must be terrible if you attempt to resolve the problem and they won't see reason, because that kind of noise is very stressful and makes you feel ill after a while.


----------



## GinaRockey (Jun 26, 2016)

We are looking forward to moving over here as soon as things improve for us, we will be looking for a place in the country as we will be bringing our 6 belgian shepherds with us, although they are all well trained and generally quiet there obviously will be things that set them off occasionally especially when we first move while they are acclimatising to normal events, I can also understand that in the mountains any noise will echo around to a certain extent but I think that will be infinitely better than the squealing of tyres, sirens etc that we have atm, when our dogs bark I know somethings up and I need to check it out, actually our dogless neighbours tell me that they feel more secure with our dogs around and are more vigilant when we are away showing them, at the end of the day there are always 2 sides to consider but responsible owners unfortunately tend to get tarred with the same brush.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

GinaRockey said:


> We are looking forward to moving over here as soon as things improve for us, we will be looking for a place in the country as we will be bringing our 6 belgian shepherds with us, although they are all well trained and generally quiet there obviously will be things that set them off occasionally especially when we first move while they are acclimatising to normal events, I can also understand that in the mountains any noise will echo around to a certain extent but I think that will be infinitely better than the squealing of tyres, sirens etc that we have atm, when our dogs bark I know somethings up and I need to check it out, actually our dogless neighbours tell me that they feel more secure with our dogs around and are more vigilant when we are away showing them, at the end of the day there are always 2 sides to consider but responsible owners unfortunately tend to get tarred with the same brush.


6 dogs might cause you a problem in some areas, inasmach as you might need a 'zoo' licence,

In some regions you can have a maximum of 4 animals of the same kind (dogs/cats/hamsters!) before you have to apply for the licence


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tigerlillie said:


> Although I sort of agree with your post sometimes it is just not possible to reason or even talk to people who are causing grievances or trouble because they either think they are in the right and can do no wrong or they are inconsiderate idiots that think they can do what they like. And if either of those is the case what do you do then because with people like that if you do report them more often than not they go out of their way to make other peoples lives a misery until something is done.
> 
> If someone continually and consistently plays loud music, equipment can be confiscated, if a dog barks continuously all day no one is going to confiscate it are they.


We had a noise nuisance in our street last summer. One of our neighbours phoned the policia local. They came, ordered everyone in the house out on the street, asked to see rental contract or proof of ownership of the property, said the music had to be stopped...I thought it was a bit OTT,tbh, a quiet word might have sufficed.
If a dog causes a nuisance and enough people complain and are upset enough to do a denuncia then yes, dogs can be taken away or the owner heavily fined.
The point about the OP's question about a ban on dogs is that it is, basically, unenforceable. OK, so a tenant or buyer agrees to the rules then after settling in gets a dog...then what? What about tenants or owners who already have dogs?

Unfortunately most of us, unless we are hermits or live far away from inhabited dwellings have to live with other people. Tolerable communal life is based on common sense and compromise. It seems that a few people in the OP's community aren't prepared to accept that. They want to make a blanket ban depriving 'innocent' people of the pleasure of having a pet.

And I think, as I said, that there are sad people, fortunately in a minority, who like to get positions on community management boards so they can set rules for other people's lives.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xgarb said:


> Assuming your neighbour is a reasonable person, understands the problem and is capable of doing something about it.
> 
> .


That kind of problem isn't confined to dog nuisance. What about neighbours who play loud music or keep old cars in their front yard next to your pristine garden? 
My gripe with the OP is that s/he is unreasonable in that s/he is seeking to punish or curtail the liberty of everyone, innocent or guilty.
Grossly unfair.
Scattergun and illiberal approach to a problem and, ultimately, unenforceable.


----------



## GinaRockey (Jun 26, 2016)

xabiachica said:


> 6 dogs might cause you a problem in some areas, inasmach as you might need a 'zoo' licence,
> 
> In some regions you can have a maximum of 4 animals of the same kind (dogs/cats/hamsters!) before you have to apply for the licence


Sadly 3 of them are currently between 12 and 15 yrs old so in all probability unfortunately not all of them will make it with us. :sad::sad:


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Pretty sure that constant loud music and keeping scrap cars in the communal areas are against the community rules.

Not sure it's an infraction of human rights to not be able to have a dog in your flat.

Two more examples for you...

I used to live in the old town. My neighbours were mostly old and knew each other for ever. A house behind me had a crazed Yorkshire terrier that used to come to the window and bark for hours. You could hear the noise bouncing around the neighbouring streets. I could mostly ignore it but sometimes I couldn't work because of the noise.

The owners were old and pretty infirm. What were my options? Ask the owners to stop it barking? I don't think they could. Call the police and have the dog taken away? Goodbye good relationship with my neighbours.


Another example: My friend lives in a block of flats. Somebody moved in with a Husky type dog. They used to leave it on the balcony when they went to work. It whined all day and poohed on the balcony and so no-one else could use their balconies due to the noise and smell. They complained to the owner who wouldn't/couldn't do anything about it. Complained to the town hall who failed to act. Eventually the poor dog had some of sort of breakdown due to being in the heat all day and a specialist had to come and catch it, probably to be destroyed.

So.. perfect world.. dog causes a problem.. problem can be solved. The reality is that often nothing can be done or is done so why can't a community set rules for new owners/tenants to prevent these problems occurring in the first place?


----------

