# Applying for a Spanish (at least 6 month) visitor Visa- France is unlikely to approve my extension because of religious headwear



## eekeek

Hi All,
I think I will post this in the Spain and France groups. 
I have been in France for over a year on a long stay visitor visa. I have a US passport. I applied for it in the US with my religious headwear on. It expired in September, I reapplied, and the government said I would have to take off my headwear for my Visa photo. This is a no-go for me. I replied to them and said I don't want a tire de sejour. I just want a one year extension so I can stay with my partner. Even 6 months will do. Further, I cited a French government website which gives instructions on how to wear religious headwear for a Visa photo. I am waiting for them to respond back to me. 

Context: My partner has already been given a titre-de-sejour for two years lol. He is here for his PhD research. It is my situation that makes us in a limbo. 

Anyways-we wanted to spend some time in Spain. They don't have the same discriminatory policy as France when it comes to Visas. So I wanted to know my options-Does anyone know how it is to apply for a Spain visitor/tourist visa when I'm already in the Schengen area? Do you think they will be understanding of my situation? Can I just use the three months I have as a US nationality and then request to extend my visa for another 3 months? 

Thanks all.


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## BackinFrance

Well, in France there are strict requirements around ID photos that apply to lots of things other than religious headware and I think there is no way around it. You cannot wear a bandana or wig because your hair is falling out due to chemotherapy for example and I suspect that in itself would make it difficult for you to claim discrimination on religious grounds.


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## eekeek

BackinFrance said:


> Well, in France there are strict requirements around ID photos that apply to lots of things other than religious headware and I think there is no way around it. You cannot wear a bandana or wig because your hair is falling out due to chemotherapy for example and I suspect that in itself would make it difficult for you to claim discrimination on religious grounds.


I am not here to engage or receive comments on how strict France's laws are both for chemotherapy patients and individuals who abide by their religion. I am exhausted of hearing comments like yours.


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## Bevdeforges

Unfortunately, I think you're in something of a no-win situation here.


eekeek said:


> I just want a one year extension so I can stay with my partner.


Unfortunately, you aren't going for an "extension of the visa" but for a "titre de séjour" (i.e. a residence permit). You probably already know this, but for the benefit of anyone lurking here, a visa is a document that allows you to enter France, whereas a titre de séjour is the document that allows you to stay in France (i.e. reside there) beyond the 90 day tourist allowance. On a one year visitor visa, the validated visa in your passport served as your "residence permit" for the first year. To remain longer, you need to have a carte de séjour (residence permit) and from what I can tell, the rules simply will not allow you to get one unless you submit a photo that complies with the rules. Your best bet at this point is to hope for a positive reaction from the prefecture based on the government website you mentioned. But everything I've been able to find on an (admittedly quick) online search seems to say that no headcovering of any sort (including a head band) is acceptable.


eekeek said:


> Does anyone know how it is to apply for a Spain visitor/tourist visa when I'm already in the Schengen area? Do you think they will be understanding of my situation? Can I just use the three months I have as a US nationality and then request to extend my visa for another 3 months?


I don't know Spain's requirements for a long-stay (i.e. more than 90 days) visa but in many cases, you are expected to apply for a visa from the country in which you are resident. Which may be an issue, given that your initial residence permit (i.e. the French visa in your passport) has expired.

But a "Schengen visa" (i.e. the 3 month tourist visa you mention) needs to be documented by an entry stamp - which you could do by entering either France or Spain from outside the EU. (Fancy a weekend in the UK, for example?) That will start the clock on your tourist visa. But a 90 day Schengen tourist visa cannot be renewed or extended. And these days I don't know to what extent they are likely to check on your status when leaving France (or the Schengen zone) which could cause a problem with your ability to return on a 90 day Schengen visa. Wish I had better news for you on this, but I've run up against these sorts of things in the immigration law here (a long time ago) and I know how annoying and frustrating it can be. Depending on how you're spending your time here in France, you could attempt to just ride it all out by laying low - but there is always the chance that when you finally do leave France to return back home, some sharp eyed immigration official may notice the expired visa/titre de séjour and the lack of entry/exit stamps in your passport.


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## xabiaxica

Bevdeforges said:


> I don't know Spain's requirements for a long-stay (i.e. more than 90 days) visa but in many cases, you are expected to apply for a visa from the country in which you are resident. Which may be an issue, given that your initial residence permit (i.e. the French visa in your passport) has expired.


I've replied on the Spanish forum regarding the situation in Spain.


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## BackinFrance

eekeek said:


> I am not here to engage or receive comments on how strict France's laws are both for chemotherapy patients and individuals who abide by their religion. I am exhausted of hearing comments like yours.


Hey, I do not agree with the way things work here and in my mind there is a great deal of discrimination at work in France. I am simply posting out that it is sneakily done, so don't go shooting the messenger. Once you arrive in France you fall under the ministry of the interior and he is about as hard right as you can get. Macron only the other day expressed his full support for Darmanin, but very sneakily applied crime statistics to all foreigners.


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## GraceS

Here's what's tripping you up: you're misunderstanding what's possible for remaining in a country or region once an initial term of stay is over. You mention "extensions" regarding both your French long stay visa and your rights as an American to a 90-day stay in the Schengen area. You seem to have the idea that you'll be able to remain longer as a part of the stay that you just completed (i.e. "extend" your stay). But it doesn't work like that in either of these cases. There are no "extensions."

For your French long stay visa: you can renew it by requesting a titre de séjour. It sounds like you are in process on that.

For the Schengen stay as an American: you can stay in the Schengen area for 90 days out of every 180 days. You can't tack on additional time once you hit 90 days.

Good luck with whatever you decide!


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## BackinFrance

And did you know that on French social media I am labeled an idmslamogauchiste and a f''' 'ing terrorist many times every day because I stand up for human rights?????


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## eekeek

Bevdeforges said:


> Unfortunately, I think you're in something of a no-win situation here.
> 
> Unfortunately, you aren't going for an "extension of the visa" but for a "titre de séjour" (i.e. a residence permit). You probably already know this, but for the benefit of anyone lurking here, a visa is a document that allows you to enter France, whereas a titre de séjour is the document that allows you to stay in France (i.e. reside there) beyond the 90 day tourist allowance. On a one year visitor visa, the validated visa in your passport served as your "residence permit" for the first year. To remain longer, you need to have a carte de séjour (residence permit) and from what I can tell, the rules simply will not allow you to get one unless you submit a photo that complies with the rules. Your best bet at this point is to hope for a positive reaction from the prefecture based on the government website you mentioned. But everything I've been able to find on an (admittedly quick) online search seems to say that no headcovering of any sort (including a head band) is acceptable.
> 
> I don't know Spain's requirements for a long-stay (i.e. more than 90 days) visa but in many cases, you are expected to apply for a visa from the country in which you are resident. Which may be an issue, given that your initial residence permit (i.e. the French visa in your passport) has expired.
> 
> But a "Schengen visa" (i.e. the 3 month tourist visa you mention) needs to be documented by an entry stamp - which you could do by entering either France or Spain from outside the EU. (Fancy a weekend in the UK, for example?) That will start the clock on your tourist visa. But a 90 day Schengen tourist visa cannot be renewed or extended. And these days I don't know to what extent they are likely to check on your status when leaving France (or the Schengen zone) which could cause a problem with your ability to return on a 90 day Schengen visa. Wish I had better news for you on this, but I've run up against these sorts of things in the immigration law here (a long time ago) and I know how annoying and frustrating it can be. Depending on how you're spending your time here in France, you could attempt to just ride it all out by laying low - but there is always the chance that when you finally do leave France to return back home, some sharp eyed immigration official may notice the expired visa/titre de séjour and the lack of entry/exit stamps in your passport.


Thanks Bev. I actually just heard back. They just closed my case lol. Did not even answer any of the questions I had. 
I actually recently found out I HAD to get a titre to stay. So your comment has been quite useful.
Ok, so it seems I need to figure out when my 90 days...ends? begins? It sounds like I need to leave, and then come back. Dun dun dun....


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## eekeek

BackinFrance said:


> And did you know that on French social media I am labeled an idmslamogauchiste and a f''' 'ing terrorist many times every day because I stand up for human rights?????


Don't take it personally-I am just super irritated at this process. People always respond with normalization of how France works. So it has gotten frustrating.
Indeed that is something to be proud of. Keep doing what you do.


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## BackinFrance

GraceS said:


> Here's what's tripping you up: you're misunderstanding what's possible for remaining in a country or region once an initial term of stay is over. You mention "extensions" regarding both your French long stay visa and your rights as an American to a 90-day stay in the Schengen area. You seem to have the idea that you'll be able to remain longer as a part of the stay that you just completed (i.e. "extend" your stay). But it doesn't work like that in either of these cases. There are no "extensions."
> 
> For your French long stay visa: you can renew it by requesting a titre de séjour. It sounds like you are in process on that.
> 
> For the Schengen stay as an American: you can stay in the Schengen area for 90 days out of every 180 days. You can't tack on additional time once you hit 90 days.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide!


In theory you can add 90 days once your visa expires. However for many people it does not work that way and can lead to an order to leave France and all that that entails.


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