# Moving to Spain Very Soon, Advice Please!?



## Nedmonds (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi all, 

New to the forum, looking to get some advice and feedback!. 

Looking to move to Spain Mid January. Currently living in Sunny Scotland.
Moving as i have a new Job overseas and want a bit of sunshine and tax free earnings for once!.

I have found a property i want to rent for me and my family. It is in Moraira.
Iv also looked into international schooling (Lady Elizabeth).

Im looking to move over in January with my partner and kids moving across at the start of the summer hols. Basically im heading over in Jan looking at a few places and any that takes our fancy ill put a deposit on there and then. 

I will be earning in the region of 90k Euros a year 
The property im looking at is £1600 a month. 
Schooling looks like it will be around the £8000 a year mark for the two kids. 
Bills etc have been worked out, basically what we are here with 20% on top to be safe. 

Being 25 i'm still bad for running into things Gun-ho! But im confident that if im there for a few months prior to the family coming over we will be able to get everything sorted out for a pretty much straight switch. Does this sound feasible ?

Thanks

Neil


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Nice place Moraira, my old fellow used to live in El Portet, just up the road. I used to visit for holidays, beautiful country side.

Your plan seems feasible, cannot see where you can go wrong.

Hepa


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nedmonds said:


> Hi all,
> 
> New to the forum, looking to get some advice and feedback!.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

yes, that all seems totally feasible 

if I was going to send my girls the International route it would the school you've chosen - I have to ask though - if you're only 25, how old are the kids??

they must be pretty young - is there any particular reason you haven't decided upon Spanish school?


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Hello and welcome  all sounds good! Can I ask a silly question - how come your earnings will be tax free?


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Bear in mind that school fees will increase as the children go up through the school. By year 11 (GCSE year) you'll be paying around 8000 euros* per child* plus exam fees (about another £1000 for them) and books. That's at current prices....


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## Nedmonds (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, 
For the tax free question it is my understanding that If you are in Spain for less
Than 183 days per year you will not be liable for income tax, fee as my company I work for is Canadian and I work out of Yemen, 5 on 5 off,. I'm also not liable for UK income tax if i spend less than 90 days a year there over 3 years. 

Can someone confirm if this is correct? 

Also my oldest is 6, young dad


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Nedmonds said:


> Thanks for the replies,
> For the tax free question it is my understanding that If you are in Spain for less
> Than 183 days per year you will not be liable for income tax, fee as my company I work for is Canadian and I work out of Yemen, 5 on 5 off,. I'm also not liable for UK income tax if i spend less than 90 days a year there over 3 years.
> 
> ...


Recommend you think about taking some professional advice. Whilst the number of days spent in Spain is generally the main factor, it is not the only one. Having a family residing in Spain whilst you are out of the country may mean they will consider that you are resident here for tax purposes, and if so, you are liable to tax on your worldwide income. Based on your post you are presumably tax resident in the UK at the moment ?.


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## Nedmonds (Nov 9, 2012)

I will go and seek advice prior to moving so I'm not going out there blind so to speak. 
Thanks for the advice Billy, and I'm a resident of the UK yes.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> Recommend you think about taking some professional advice. Whilst the number of days spent in Spain is generally the main factor, it is not the only one. Having a family residing in Spain whilst you are out of the country may mean they will consider that you are resident here for tax purposes, and if so, you are liable to tax on your worldwide income. Based on your post you are presumably tax resident in the UK at the moment ?.


yes, that is a factor - if the family is resident in Spain, then the 'breadwinner' can also be considered so


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## boxergirl (Nov 27, 2010)

The posters on this forum seem to be obsessed with people paying taxes. My husband works on Angola for a us company and his taxes are paid in Angola. We live in Spain and therefore avoid paying uk taxes (we are British). We take nothing from Spain, we have private healthcare we spend a fortune here so are therefore helping prop up the economy so why should we pay tax here ?


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Paying tax is a tricky business.

For example, I'm resident in Spain, but am employed by my company in the UK who let me move out to Spain. I moved out here in August.

The rules are fairly clear.... 

A person becomes liable for tax as a resident of Spain if:

they spend more than 183 cumulative days in one calendar year in Spain, that is: 1 January to 31 December, which is the tax year. They become liable whether or not they formally register in the Registro Central de Extranjeros
OR their "centre of economic interests" is in Spain, that is: the base for their economic or professional activities is in Spain
OR their "centre of vital interests" is in Spain, that is: their spouse lives in Spain and they are not legally separated, and/or their dependent minor children live in Spain
In Spain, an individual is either resident or not resident for the whole tax year.

A resident of Spain is liable for tax on their worldwide income at scale rates after any available allowances and deductions.

A non-resident of Spain is liable for Spanish income tax only on Spanish income, generally at fixed rates and with no allowances or deductions.

For example, I can work up to just 10 'incidental' days a year in the UK before I have to pay income tax on extra days, and my company also needs to pay extra tax on top of that. I have to submit two tax returns - one in the UK, and one in Spain. It is a little more complex than this in reality, but you get the picture.

Because I only moved out in August, my PAYE tax will carry on coming out until next UK tax year - as something called 'hypothetical tax' - which means that the tax is withheld from Inland Revenue until April. Then it looks like my company will need to inform the Inland Revenue how much tax they forecast I will need to pay for tax year 2013-2014, so they collect only a small amount based on what is forecast I will work in the UK above the 10 'incidental' day allowance. When the tax return is submitted at the end of the tax return, I may be due a rebate or need to pay extra.

The Spanish tax year is January-December with the tax return submission nearer May-June time (can't remember exactly - i'm sure everyone on here knows!). I will then have to file a Spanish tax return on my Spanish earning this year. There's a dual tax treaty between the UK and Spain (and other countries) which means I may have to go through the palaver of claiming back tax from the UK so I don't end up paying twice - but that's just the way it is.

The HMRC International Caseworker are really useful if you give them a call - they can advise on your situation.

One note on income tax - it has nothing to do with healthcare- that's the Seguridad Social payment which is different. I use private healthcare too but fully expect to have to pay tax for ever other public service...


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Neill, plan sounds good generally but I do think you'd be very wise to get financial advice about your salary. I guess you will have to pay tax somewhere!

You are supposed to register within 90 days of arriving in Spain - and will have to show proof of sufficient funds and healthcare provision. Healthcare, for 2yrs, may be available if you have been paying NI in the UK, or you may have private cover? If you do not pay tax/ Social security in Spain, you and your family will not be able to access state healthcare.

If you do not become legally resident, you would also have difficulty doing things like buying a car, property or accessing state school, if you decided to go down that route.

One more thing - DO NOT rent a property you have just seen pictures of on the internet. You must view the property - and more importantly, the surroundings, first. Pictures are very deceiving and tell nothing of the loud disco at the end of the road, the closed down shops and community facilities, the smelly drains, etc, etc.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

boxergirl said:


> The posters on this forum seem to be obsessed with people paying taxes. My husband works on Angola for a us company and his taxes are paid in Angola. We live in Spain and therefore avoid paying uk taxes (we are British). We take nothing from Spain, we have private healthcare we spend a fortune here so are therefore helping prop up the economy so why should we pay tax here ?


Well, people ask questions, so they get answers, not sure how that's obsession. I think it may be that you don't like the answers.

I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said ""but in the world nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes.". Just to be clear, if you are resident of Spain, then you are liable to pay tax on your worldwide income. Unfortunately, that is a fact. There are a number of double taxation treaties with other countries so you don't pay twice, although I don't think Angola is one of them. So you may or may not be liable to pay some tax, it depends on your earnings. But just to be clear, it's your responsibility to sort it out. The fact that you don't pay UK tax is irrelevant if you're not a UK resident.

Unfortunately, just saying " why should we pay tax here" is not dealing with the issue. If you seriously think that anyone likes paying tax then you don't live in the real world, BUT, as responsible citizens, people realise that in a civilised society, tax is a feature of life. Most people pay it from their earnings on receipt, because they don't have a choice. Others, like the people who post on here, who receive income from overseas, act responsibily and submiit the returns required by law. 

As far as "we take nothing from Spain" is concerned, who do you think pays for the infrastructure that makes a country a good place to live, such as roads, electricity, running water, rule of law ( police) etc, that you seem to take for granted. It's paid for by the government, from taxes raised from its citizens. Pick and mix is not on offer.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

CapnBilly said:


> Well, people ask questions, so they get answers, not sure how that's obsession. I think it may be that you don't like the answers.
> 
> I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said ""but in the world nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes.". Just to be clear, if you are resident of Spain, then you are liable to pay tax on your worldwide income. Unfortunately, that is a fact. There are a number of double taxation treaties with other countries so you don't pay twice, although I don't think Angola is one of them. So you may or may not be liable to pay some tax, it depends on your earnings. But just to be clear, it's your responsibility to sort it out. The fact that you don't pay UK tax is irrelevant if you're not a UK resident.
> 
> ...


Quite!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

boxergirl said:


> The posters on this forum seem to be obsessed with people paying taxes. My husband works on Angola for a us company and his taxes are paid in Angola. We live in Spain and therefore avoid paying uk taxes (we are British). We take nothing from Spain, we have private healthcare we spend a fortune here so are therefore helping prop up the economy so why should we pay tax here ?


if you live here you should do a tax return here 

which doesn't actually mean you'll pay more tax - in fact if tax rates are lower here than in Angola (I have no idea if they are) then you might even get a rebate

strange, but true....


there are a lot of people up & down the country atm who just wish they had done tax returns.............. they'd be entitled to free healthcare here now - a friend of mine (under pension age) tells me that saves her & her husband 2000 € a year - not an insignificant amount when you are on a limited income from a UK teacher's pension


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> Well, people ask questions, so they get answers, not sure how that's obsession. I think it may be that you don't like the answers.
> 
> I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said ""but in the world nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes.". Just to be clear, if you are resident of Spain, then you are liable to pay tax on your worldwide income. Unfortunately, that is a fact. There are a number of double taxation treaties with other countries so you don't pay twice, although I don't think Angola is one of them. So you may or may not be liable to pay some tax, it depends on your earnings. But just to be clear, it's your responsibility to sort it out. The fact that you don't pay UK tax is irrelevant if you're not a UK resident.
> 
> ...


Well said, Cap'n...I was going to post along similar lines but you have said it all.

OP...I can see no obstacles in your path once you have the tax issues sorted out. My OH and I retired here on a good income and at the end of the day that's the important factor.....a good secured income, which you have.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> if you live here you should do a tax return here
> 
> which doesn't actually mean you'll pay more tax - in fact if tax rates are lower here than in Angola (I have no idea if they are) then you might even get a rebate
> 
> ...


All true. But some Teachers Pensions are very generous. The amount is calculated by a formula which takes into account length of service and final salary. So a Head of Department retiring after thirty years would be receiving a pension of around £25k plus three times that amount as a one off tax free lump sum. Most teachers retire with final salaries of around £30-£40 at least. Heads of large schools would be paid around £60k a year, up tpo £100k in large city comprehensives.

Most local government pensions are fairly generous compared to private sector schemes...that includes police, NHS, local government executive officers.

But.....the average public sector pension is now around £5k a year as it is dragged down by the large number of low-paid clerical workers, care workers, less skilled staff and so on.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

boxergirl said:


> The posters on this forum seem to be obsessed with people paying taxes. My husband works on Angola for a us company and his taxes are paid in Angola. We live in Spain and therefore avoid paying uk taxes (we are British). We take nothing from Spain, we have private healthcare we spend a fortune here so are therefore helping prop up the economy so why should we pay tax here ?


Do you use the roads? If you had a problem, would you call the police? the fire service?

If you are likely to want to use any of these things then that is why you should pay tax here


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

boxergirl said:


> The posters on this forum seem to be obsessed with people paying taxes. My husband works on Angola for a us company and his taxes are paid in Angola. We live in Spain and therefore avoid paying uk taxes (we are British). We take nothing from Spain, we have private healthcare we spend a fortune here so are therefore helping prop up the economy so why should we pay tax here ?


I was informed by the boss of tax authorities here, that a person resident for six months or over, must file a tax return. This we did for the first time this year, because we hadn't filed a return previously we anticipated a fine.

However because we hadn't any income in Spain and we had paid taxes on our income elsewhere, we were not fined, but got a €60 refund on our bank account.

I do not particularly think the posters are obsessed with people paying taxes, it is just that the Spanish laws on taxes are so complicated, for example that you have to have filed a return to avoid inheritance tax etc. etc. The posters are trying to help others avoid the many pitfalls that they themselves have experienced.


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## spanish_lad (Sep 18, 2012)

they could be "obsessed" with people paying taxes because they are sick of non-tax payers moaning about the state of the roads etc, the lack of police and ambulances? 

or perhaps its because the non taxpaying spongers (who might spend alot of money on cheap red wine and new sofas) might not actually contribute anything to the country at all, yet feel that they have the right to an opinion. 

just a guess.  


to the OP. most of us "live" on under 20k a year, so on 90k you would be more or less "living like a king" in your adopted country of residence. Seek professional advice, because, imo, you will need to be paying taxon your earnings. 

we all dream about numbers like that, try not to splash it about too much,jealous people around these parts. (haha wheres the recession now?)


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## Nedmonds (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi Folks, 

I know it has been a month since the last post in this thread and i have had a read through the replys and i obviously agree about the tax implications when moving abroad. Im used to the 40% tax rate in the UK from my previous job!. 

I have booked my self a flight to Alicante on the 7th of January and im going to stop in there for 2 days and look at property, then im heading over to murcia for 2 days to check out some property there. 

Ill seek some advice when im back from Yemen. How do i become resident of spain if im a Resident of Yemen as thats where i spend most of my year, my wages go into an offshore bank account. My family has a sort of world wide private health care scheme also so healthcare wouldnt be an issue!

Im thinking about state school for my kids as i want to them to become immersed in the culture and language, not go to an international school when there is the opportunity to be further educated on their doorstep!.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Your wife and children would need to be residents of Spain to allow your children to attend school. You, if you can be a resident of Spain as long as you prove income and healthcare provision - this will also apply to your family as they are your dependents. But because you wont be in Spain for more than 180 days, then you wont need to pay taxes in Spain - you'll pay those wherever you spend the bulk of your time. Or you can simply be a visitor/tourist to Spain as long as you dont spend more than 90 concurrent days there. In that case your wife will need to be a resident and prove income (from you) 

Jo xxxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Your wife and children would need to be residents of Spain to allow your children to attend school. You, if you can be a resident of Spain as long as you prove income and healthcare provision - this will also apply to your family as they are your dependents. But because you wont be in Spain for more than 180 days, then you wont need to pay taxes in Spain - you'll pay those wherever you spend the bulk of your time. Or you can simply be a visitor/tourist to Spain as long as you dont spend more than 90 concurrent days there. In that case your wife will need to be a resident and prove income (from you)
> 
> Jo xxxx


all agreed

except.......... Spain would likely consider Nedmonds to be *fiscally *resident in Spain by virtue of the fact that the family he supports live here - so he'd be liable to pay income tax here, unless Yemen has an agreement with Spain


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## Nedmonds (Nov 9, 2012)

Ok thats cleared that up thanks , my missus and kids will become spanish residents, and i wont be in spain for more than 180 days a year, unfortunatly. I think im going to put down a deposit on the nicest place i see when im there, as long as it meets our needs . Only going to rent for around a year then look at purchasing somewhere. 

Ah looking forward to it now .


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nedmonds said:


> Ok thats cleared that up thanks , my missus and kids will become spanish residents, and i wont be in spain for more than 180 days a year, unfortunatly. I think im going to put down a deposit on the nicest place i see when im there, as long as it meets our needs . Only going to rent for around a year then look at purchasing somewhere.
> 
> Ah looking forward to it now .


read my post above.......


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## Nedmonds (Nov 9, 2012)

Urgh i doubt Yemen has an agreement with spain, its pretty much Terrorist central here.
I suppose ill just wait and see what happens. ill try and stop in at the tax office when im in spain and ask them what the official verdict is.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It is complicated thats for sure. I'm thinking back to my situation. I was the resident with the children, husband was a visitor and spent most of his time in the UK. I was the one who was taxed in Spain on my income (housekeeping) altho fortunately it wasnt enough to pay tax, but I had to declare it. Of course Spain and the UK had a reciprical agreement, so husbands taes and NI worked to enable us to be covered..................... and all of this was before the latest rules on becoming Spanish residents

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> It is complicated thats for sure. I'm thinking back to my situation. I was the resident with the children, husband was a visitor and spent most of his time in the UK. I was the one who was taxed in Spain on my income (housekeeping) altho fortunately it wasnt enough to pay tax, but I had to declare it. Of course Spain and the UK had a reciprical agreement, so husbands taes and NI worked to enable us to be covered..................... and all of this was before the latest rules on becoming Spanish residents
> 
> Jo xxx


yes - as you say, the UK has a reciprocal agreement, so even if Spain had decided that your OH was 'tax resident', he wouldn't have actually paid tax again

Nedmond's situation is a bit different though, in that he has a 'tax free' income......so might find himself having to pay tax here


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## wiggytheone (Dec 3, 2012)

Nedmonds said:


> Urgh i doubt Yemen has an agreement with spain, its pretty much Terrorist central here.
> I suppose ill just wait and see what happens. ill try and stop in at the tax office when m in spain and ask them what the official verdict is.


Hi you have just hit the nail on the head. Stop at the tax office and find out for yourself. 
Whilst there are many good folks on this forum and their advice is sound if varied and can give you answers you may not have thought of. The ultimate way to proceed is your own good sense. A good lawyer/solicitor is also a handy thing to have on your side, but at the end of every day your own groundwork and common sense should see you through.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I ended up going to the Tax Office, they did my return for me.


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