# Paying National Insurance in the UK



## Jay21 (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello,

Please could you let me know if expats pay National Insurance in the UK whilst living abroad, and how this is calculated if you are not drawing an income in the UK? The DWP information sheet says that the amount we pay depends on a] the amount you earn and b] whether you are employed or self-employed but did not say how expats calculate their contributions.

I'd like to return to the UK after a few years in Dubai, and would like to make sure I have 30 qualifying years to get the full state pension in my retirement, irrespective of what I manage to save as well.

Is there a specific form that you need to fill to let the department for Work & Pensions know before you leave the UK?

In addition, does being away from the UK for any length of time restrict your right to NHS treatment when you are back home? Would continuing to pay your NI while away from the UK counter any such restriction?

I am currently still in the UK and am planning to come over and work in Dubai for a couple of years, so am trying to sort out things that I need to put in place. Thanks very much!


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

I've been in communication with them recently. You can find all the contact details on line. Write to them now but give them a UK address to reply to, despite what they say on their forms, you won't receive anything by post here or by email. They're really busy and, again, despite what they say about time limits for replying, it takes much longer. Last, but not least, you can continue to pay or top up. Even after all the years I've been here, I can still top up for a full pension, as long as I do it within the next couple of years. Can't help you with seeing the doctor sorry.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

BedouGirl said:


> Iyou won't receive anything by post here or by email.


They will email you if your correspondence address for tax returns is a UAE PO Box.



BedouGirl said:


> as long as I do it within the next couple of years.


The limit is seven years - you can go back and pay up Class 2 or 3 payments at any time during that period. There's a useful HMRC online facility for requesting a 'statement' of payments and advice on what you need to pay to make up any shortfalls. I did it a couple of years ago and am awaiting my next catch up statement for last year.

But yes, if you are non-resident for tax purposes, you cannot use the NHS on your return for a period of time - one year I believe.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

twowheelsgood said:


> But yes, if you are non-resident for tax purposes, you cannot use the NHS on your return for a period of time - one year I believe.


Hi,
I think your information is wrong.
If you have been away from UK for less than 5 years and have lived in UK for minimum of 10 years before that - then you are exempt from NHS charges.
http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/c) Non Resident UK Citizens.pdf
You can also access your GP services free every time you come back to the UK.
Cheers
Steve


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## dogmeat (Dec 10, 2015)

> Originally Posted by twowheelsgood View Post
> But yes, if you are non-resident for tax purposes, you cannot use the NHS on your return for a period of time - one year I believe.


Not to bring up immigration etc etc, so what stops non UK's citizens (but EU) just turning up and getting free health care. Nothing. As long as you have the beautiful red (but golden ticket) you'll get free health care.

BTW the question above is something I would like to know. I'd like to keep topping up my NI, just in case it all F's up when im 65 I have something (but nominal) to fall back on


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

dogmeat said:


> Not to bring up immigration etc etc, so what stops non UK's citizens (but EU) just turning up and getting free health care. Nothing. As long as you have the beautiful red (but golden ticket) you'll get free health care.
> 
> BTW the question above is something I would like to know. I'd like to keep topping up my NI, just in case it all F's up when im 65 I have something (but nominal) to fall back on


Hi,
Because they don't have an NHS patient reference number.
Cheers
Steve


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## Bigjimbo (Oct 28, 2010)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> I think your information is wrong.
> If you have been away from UK for less than 5 years and have lived in UK for minimum of 10 years before that - then you are exempt from NHS charges.
> http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/c) Non Resident UK Citizens.pdf
> ...


Hi Steve,

I have been here nearly 8 years but never filled any paperwork saying I was leaving. How would they check? I never even considered the idea I couldn't go home and have healthcare. I am coverec here of course but if it was something severe then where would I be?


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## Jay21 (Jul 7, 2014)

Bigjimbo said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> I have been here nearly 8 years but never filled any paperwork saying I was leaving. How would they check? I never even considered the idea I couldn't go home and have healthcare. I am coverec here of course but if it was something severe then where would I be?


Its a worrying thought, but I don't think anyone actually checks. What people ask for is a registered GP, an NHS patient number and perhaps an address in the UK. I know I asked this question because I want to know all the facts before moving out of Britain, but surely they can't refuse you NHS treatment if you haven't paid your NIs for a few years, particularly if you have lived here and paid it in the past? I think the number of qualifying NIs probably just relate to how much State Pension we will get, however small the amount may be.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> They will email you if your correspondence address for tax returns is a UAE PO Box. The limit is seven years - you can go back and pay up Class 2 or 3 payments at any time during that period. There's a useful HMRC online facility for requesting a 'statement' of payments and advice on what you need to pay to make up any shortfalls. I did it a couple of years ago and am awaiting my next catch up statement for last year. But yes, if you are non-resident for tax purposes, you cannot use the NHS on your return for a period of time - one year I believe.


I don't do tax returns. 

For the NI, I've been away since 1998 and I can still pay up as long as I do it within the next couple of years.


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## Dubai-meister (Jul 22, 2013)

Bigjimbo said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> I have been here nearly 8 years but never filled any paperwork saying I was leaving. How would they check? I never even considered the idea I couldn't go home and have healthcare. I am covered here of course but if it was something severe then where would I be?


Just like Big Jimbo, I have never filled in any forms or paperwork whatsoever saying that I am living and working in Dubai. I still use a UK bank account which receives the money I am earning here in Dubai, I am registered at the doctors using my former UK address (the surgery sends all comms to me via email so they never know whether i am actually living at the address or not) and I have no problems accessing healthcare and getting prescriptions (I do pay for my prescriptions though). 

When I do move back to the UK for work, I will just say to HMRC that I have taken some time off work and am lucky enough not to need to sign on for job seekers allowance as I have been living at my parents' and using my savings etc so i have literally just "gone quiet" for a the last few years in terms of anything official regarding records. 

There is no way of checking anything - and if anything does surface i will just plead ignorance. Yes, I might miss some years of contributions which could affect the full state pension entitlement - but i'm lucky enough to be earning a good wage here and am saving well thanks to being pretty strict with myself. The way I see it, the NHS is facing much more serious abuses and blatant lies than my twice-yearly GP check-ups, and i have been paying into it for many years before i moved to Dubai, and when I move back to the UK and start working there i will be paying for it again.

Sometimes you have to play the system, simple as that - because you can bet your bottom dollar someone else will be doing it far more than you are.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Dubai-meister said:


> Just like Big Jimbo, I have never filled in any forms or paperwork whatsoever saying that I am living and working in Dubai. I still use a UK bank account which receives the money I am earning here in Dubai, I am registered at the doctors using my former UK address (the surgery sends all comms to me via email so they never know whether i am actually living at the address or not) and I have no problems accessing healthcare and getting prescriptions (I do pay for my prescriptions though).
> 
> When I do move back to the UK for work, I will just say to HMRC that I have taken some time off work and am lucky enough not to need to sign on for job seekers allowance as I have been living at my parents' and using my savings etc so i have literally just "gone quiet" for a the last few years in terms of anything official regarding records.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Don't panic - you are not "playing" the system - as British expats are still entitled to GP services when they go back to the UK!
It is hospital services that are a bit more complicated.
Cheers
Steve


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

BedouGirl said:


> For the NI, I've been away since 1998 and I can still pay up as long as I do it within the next couple of years.


Not for the years prior to 2008 you cannot. There's a 7 year limit for retrospective payments. You will also have to explain to them how you have not been on PAYE and have not submitted any tax returns for 17 years and are still trying to make a retrospective payment when you apparently have declared nothing since 1998.

Good luck with that. I'll get the popcorn and watch.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

I wouldn't worry, the NHS will soon be gone and the state pension won't amount to much more than the bus pass.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> Not for the years prior to 2008 you cannot. There's a 7 year limit for retrospective payments. You will also have to explain to them how you have not been on PAYE and have not submitted any tax returns for 17 years and are still trying to make a retrospective payment when you apparently have declared nothing since 1998. Good luck with that. I'll get the popcorn and watch.


 Ummm, I hate to disagree, but I have a letter from them stating quite differently. They are quite aware of where I am. I had to fill in forms for the original statement and then I asked them what I need to do to make up the contributions and they sent me the details with the amounts and time limitations. I received this last November.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

BedouGirl said:


> Ummm, I hate to disagree, but I have a letter from them stating quite differently. They are quite aware of where I am. I had to fill in forms for the original statement and then I asked them what I need to do to make up the contributions and they sent me the details with the amounts and time limitations. I received this last November.


Interesting.

And they are giving you amounts to pay going back more than 7 years ?


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> Interesting. And they are giving you amounts to pay going back more than 7 years ?


They just gave me details of what I need to pay and the cut-off date. Perhaps it's because I'd paid up for so many years that I can still top up? To be honest, I've put it on the back burner for a few months, I'm doing a big downsize and moving (one month today in fact!) so it's not something I can or want to think about at the moment.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Ah, I am pretty certain that the payback amount is only for the last 7 years and if you ask for a statement, year by year, you will have a gap. The cutoff date is such that if you miss it, a chunk of the money cannot be paid and you lose a year contribution towards your number of years paid. 

The number of years you have paid is irrelevant - if you have paid in for 5 years or 25 years, the cutoff is the same. You don't get a grace period simply because you have paid in for a lot of years already.

If it does turn out that they are giving you numbers for prior to 7 years, let me know as Id like to have a word with them !


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## Jay21 (Jul 7, 2014)

twowheelsgood said:


> Ah, I am pretty certain that the payback amount is only for the last 7 years and if you ask for a statement, year by year, you will have a gap. The cutoff date is such that if you miss it, a chunk of the money cannot be paid and you lose a year contribution towards your number of years paid.
> 
> The number of years you have paid is irrelevant - if you have paid in for 5 years or 25 years, the cutoff is the same. You don't get a grace period simply because you have paid in for a lot of years already.
> 
> If it does turn out that they are giving you numbers for prior to 7 years, let me know as Id like to have a word with them !


Interesting discussion. I've attached a couple of documents from the Department of Work & Pensions which explains these points. Hope this helps.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

You think those document explain the cutoff - where ?


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## Jay21 (Jul 7, 2014)

Paragraph 3 of the document with the green bar of the left, page 3 says that we need 35 qualifying years to get the full state pension. If you have less then you get proportionally less amounts. If you have less than 10 qualifying years you don't get any state pension. 

Page 18 of the document with the black bar on the right says something about adding additional years to the NI contribution record but to be honest it's quite confusing. It seems to allow extra contributions after 6 April 2016 but I cannot see any limit/cut-off before which you have to do this. Page 24 recommends finding out what your starting amount would be, and so maybe it's worth asking them for a statement of what you have paid so far and what you may expect to get in the first instance? I know I started this thread, but to be honest I don't think we are talking about much money here so it's up to you to decide if it's worth the effort. My statement from the DWP cam through in the post but I know my partner has not received one, so maybe they are sending these out in batches. No point emailing them though, I tried but didn't receive a reply.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks - I didnt think it did sy what is relevant.

I asked for a statement and got one a couple of years ago (its in the Uk so so I can't check the exact wording) but my financial planner did the calculations, got the year by year 'back money' calculations and they stop after 7 years has elapsed. I think I also got a letter from HMRC reminding me of the deadline for the last payment stating that I could only pay back 7 years missed.

If it were not the case one could sit on the money until the year before retirement and pay it all then and expect a full pension. Thats not going to be allowed by HMRC.

Its not the value of the payment that matters at all. Its whether you lose a year and a proportion of your pension if you are short of years contributions as you cannot recover a lost year no matter how much you pay, if you run out of time to make up qualifying years.

And PS - its no longer 30 qualifying years, its 35 for now. It'll be 40 by the time you get there though


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## Jay21 (Jul 7, 2014)

Got that - I'm sure you are right about the 7 years cut off then. In which case I guess you will need to ask your financial planner to tell you how many years you need to pay back, and then pay back the shortfall if any within 7 years...yes the 35 years now will create a shortfall for some!


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## richardbkk (Oct 21, 2011)

*Missing NIC's*

Please could you let me know if expats pay National Insurance in the UK whilst living abroad, and how this is calculated if you are not drawing an income in the UK? The DWP information sheet says that the amount we pay depends on a] the amount you earn and b] whether you are employed or self-employed but did not say how expats calculate their contributions.

To pay missing National Insurance Contributions, you need to fill in CF83, go to page 14 here for more details on direct debit payments, etc. whilst abroad and form at the end of the page 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/414910/NI38_CF83.pdf

NHS Coverage for British expats returning to live in the UK: 

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that
you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived
in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

More detailed info in the link below, including countries where you are tax resident abroad, but still qualify for UK treatment:

http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/c) Non Resident UK Citizens.pdf 

If you want to reduce your tax liabilities before returning, also check out QROPS Specialists - Pension Transfers for British Expats



Jay21 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to return to the UK after a few years in Dubai, and would like to make sure I have 30 qualifying years to get the full state pension in my retirement, irrespective of what I manage to save as well.
> 
> ...


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Jay21 said:


> Got that - I'm sure you are right about the 7 years cut off then. In which case I guess you will need to ask your financial planner to tell you how many years you need to pay back, and then pay back the shortfall if any within 7 years...yes the 35 years now will create a shortfall for some!


I did and I had missed a year having waited eight years before considering it. I will still reach the 35 years easily, and 40 if it goes up again

The issue affects non-working spouses more. My wife would have to work well into her 70's to get 35 years of contributions as she had so many non-working years. 

It's the HMRC who tell you how many years contributions you have registered with them. There's a standard online statement request from them which my planner uses. It's easily searchable on their website.


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