# Who would you recommend comes to Spain to live now, and why?



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

New thread and perhaps a new, temporary sticky too?? Although, as we know, probably only 5% of newcomers look at the stickies.:tongue1:

This is a question to the people who are already here, (or have been here and have recently returned for whatever reason) who know a little of what's happening in today's Spain, and who have some knowledge of the area where they are. 

We have had a spate of people asking for our advice about making the big move to Spain and some of those have not been happy to receive negative comments, so in an attempt to be positive...

_*Who would you recommend comes to Spain to live now and why?*_

Retirees?
People with young children?
People with manual work skills?
People with university education?
Those who are willing to try their hand at anything?
People who are fluent in Spanish?
Single, footloose and fancy free?
Those with online businesses in the UK?
People who want to live in the north, south, centre etc
Americans?
Europeans?
??????????


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The only people I would recommend to settle permanently in Spain are:

retired people with GOOD investment income of at least £25000 per couple
professionals with secure employment contracts and an above average salary
anyone who has no need to work and can live well on whatever source of income they enjoy
professional criminals


It's cold and miserable in the UK and early in the new year still...post-New Year depression still afflicting people. We used to get it when we lived in the UK. People are losing their jobs or fearful of losing them.
Spain is all too familiar with many British people. It's not a wildly expensive or exclusive destination, unlike say Tuscany or the Caribbean holiday resorts. They spend holidays here, have fond memories of days in the sun. Many see very little of 'Spanish' Spain: they frequent British bars, restaurants etc. They know very little, probably nothing, of the wider issues affecting Spanish society. For some people, their chief aspiration is to live a fantasy they call'the Spanish dream'. This seems to consist of a vague image containing wall-to-wall sunshine, a pool, a beach and cocktails with those little umbrellas. It does not include massive unemployment, low wages, long hours, general job insecurity, grim urbs like UK council estates often with high-rises, health and general social security issues....
A lot of this can be blamed on those ridiculous tv programmes which present life in Spain in terms of property acquisition..... and then you live happily ever after.
It's partly due to the sheer familarity of Spain to many Brits...not really 'abroad' as there are so many fellow-immigrants there.
If you are coming up to retirement, if you are lucky enough to have a public sector final salary pension with the tax free one-off lump sum that accompanies most of these schemes, if you are 100% sure you intend to remain permanently in Spain, now's the time for you to emigrate as you can take advantage of an extremely depressed property market. Keep your UK property and enjoy the rental income from it until the market picks up and youn can sell at a good price.
If you are experiencing financial difficulties in the UK, are unskilled, speak no Spanish, have not had much experience of 'abroad' apart from holidays and especially if you have children: stay home and wait out the current crisis. It will, eventually, pass.
Your Spanish dream can so easily turn out to be a nightmare.
Some will say 'Go for it. Easy to tell other people to take a risk if you are lucky in your experience of Spain.
For every one person who has 'made it' in Spain, there must be hundreds maybe more who haven't. 
You may be that lucky one. Odds are however that you won't be.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> The only people I would recommend to settle permanently in Spain are:
> 
> retired people with GOOD investment income of at least £25000 per couple
> professionals with secure employment contracts and an above average salary
> ...




Well I think you have said it all Mary..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Since my recent visit to Spain I've seen that theres a huge amount of people from several other european countries who spend the winter in Spain. They work hard all year and then have three months off and go to Spain or they are retired and just travel around nipping in and out of Spain. That seems to be a good way of living there without any financial issues

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm amazed at the casual way in which some people regard their children's future lives here. I've seen at first hand how difficult it is for immigrant children to integrate into a new school in a new country the language of which they cannot speak. A few get by but the majority are very unhappy for a very long time.
Then of course there's the question of what they will do when they leave school for the world of work.
With young people's unemployment at 50% what chance will they have of any secure employment?
It seems that the adults' desire for the 'dream life in Spain', often based on nothing more than sun, cheap booze and an imagined easy life, sometimes overrides the education, happiness and general well-being of their children.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The one thing I would say is that too many people seem to think that moving to Spain is going to be easy. Its a relaxed country, its an easy country and its sunny all the year round.

People should move to Spain just as they would anywhere else. Check it out, make sure there is a job waiting, that you will have good enough finances to cover your costs and understand the Spanish bureaucracy (or at least try). 

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm amazed at the casual way in which some people regard their children's future lives here. I've seen at first hand how difficult it is for immigrant children to integrate into a new school in a new country the language of which they cannot speak. A few get by but the majority are very unhappy for a very long time.
> Then of course there's the question of what they will do when they leave school for the world of work.
> With young people's unemployment at 50% what chance will they have of any secure employment?
> It seems that the adults' desire for the 'dream life in Spain', often based on nothing more than sun, cheap booze and an imagined easy life, sometimes overrides the education, happiness and general well-being of their children.




You always make me smile when you say ... often based on nothing more than sun, cheap booze and then on another thread you will tell us the price of gin in Gibraltar

I know you are not in Spain for the cheap booze but it still makes me smile.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Would be immigrants, _*regardless of where they are thinking of going*_ should know what the current economic and political situation of the country they wish to immigrate to is. They owe it to themselves and to their family. 
Anyone and everyone who is thinking of coming to Spain now should be well informed of the 
economics of the country, which in turn leads to knowledge of the job market. This is something you need to know about should you be 15, 35, 55 or 75. The current situation in Spain affects house prices, health care, education, street cleaning, sports facilities, the price of petrol, money made available to the police service, service given in pharmacies and I could go on... Everyone is affected. So, we need to think where Spain is today and where it's going to be tomorrow. Will the children's education be effected? Will my pension buy the same as it did last year?


Above all, people need to be aware that Spain is _*not*_ in the same situation as the UK. it's *worse* in many ways


My opinion is that you need information. Of course, for all the information that you collect you'll never know what it's like until you're living here, but if you do enough research beforehand you could avoid a lot of heartbreak later. 
For those that think it will be “better” living in Spain, you'll need to think “why?” 
The weather? The weather is better in general, but it's not 24 hour sunshine. 
The relaxed lifestyle? Relaxed if you're on holiday. 
The children? Lots of good things for kids here, but you need to think of the ages – 14 is too old to go to state school for example so you'll need to think about a private international school. Is it benificial to move the kids to see how it goes and then go back after a year/ 2 years or is it a disruption to their education?
It's cheaper? Prices have risen a lot recently in electricity and petrol for example. Rents have come down a lot. Of course if you go from a major city in the UK to a small town/ village in Spain it'll probably be cheaper, but you have to do a like by like comparison.
Because I can't find work in the UK? And why do you think you'll find work in Spain? If you can't find work in the UK where you know the system and the language why do you think you'll get a job in Spain where you (probably) don't know either.


All in all...
If you need to work, have a long term job to come to. 
Think about the kids now, and their future. 
Think about the family in the UK or wherever and their needs. 
Think about what you have where you are and what you're going to.
Ask for advice and take it on board. Don't reject it because you don't like it
Be realistic. You will not learn a language in 6 months, you might not even learn in 6 years. What do you have to offer the Spanish job market taking into account there are more than 5million Spaniards unemployed, and qualified and unqualified people are leaving the country in droves?


To those that make the decision to come _*bienvenidos sean*_ (They are welcome) 
Spain needs you (and your money!)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> You always make me smile when you say ... often based on nothing more than sun, cheap booze and then on another thread you will tell us the price of gin in Gibraltar
> 
> I know you are not in Spain for the cheap booze but it still makes me smile.


Yes, you are right...I enjoy my G&T. But I drink very little compared to most people, less than I did in the UK. OH doesn't drink alcohol at all.
My usual consumption is a G&T pre-dinner plus one glass of wine with dinner. Don't know why but I've stopped having even my daily G&T the past few weeks.
I must say I was actually quite shocked when I found out how cheap alcohol is in Gibraltar - it seemed immoral somehow!!
I knew from past visits that alcohol and tobacco products were cheaper in Spain than the UK but it certainly wasn't a factor in luring me here. The climate was a major influence - try a few winters of sub-zero temperatures as we did in Prague but food for OH was the key factor in our move.
Being vegetarian in the CR is still seen as something not quite normal. The quality of fruit and vegetables is very poor and poor old Sandra's diet was severely restricted and lacking in nutrition to the point we feared she would be ill. Quorn products were unavailable. 
Tbh, I wasn't keen to move to Spain. I enjoyed the cultural life in Prague...we enjoyed regular visits to the opera, to concerts and so on. Friends turned up their noses when I said we were moving to the CDS - images of dodgy low-life types, gangsters, kiss-me-quick hats, all the fun of Blackpool in the sun no doubt appeared in their minds.
But my dil is a discerning type and had bought property in a very pleasant part of the CDS - nowhere near any of the largely inaccurate stereotypes of the more fastidious.
When we eventually found the house we now live in, after three moves in five months, I settled down, got involved in the community, made loads of friends, got involved with ADANA, became confident in Spanish...and realised I was very happy here. It kind of crept up on me.
I've read a few posts on this and other sites where the delights of Spain are extolled in terms of cheap booze and ****......Sad, imo.
But I do enjoy my drink on the terrace, especially on a hot summer's day or after a midnight swim...cava under the stars...one of the bolt-on extras, though, not the chief reason for being here.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

MaidenScotland said:


> You always make me smile when you say ... often based on nothing more than sun, cheap booze and then on another thread you will tell us the price of gin in Gibraltar
> 
> I know you are not in Spain for the cheap booze but it still makes me smile.


It used to amaze me that when I spoke to other expats in spain and I'd tell them I'm not a drinker, they would often say to me "well why did you come to spain if you dont drink???" and be totally baffled!!

Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

One thing only on one persons list at the moment is family ties. But it's the one that got me. 
If you have a family back in the UK that you are very close to, you are going to miss them a great deal when you live in Spain.

In the heat of the moment, you may say 'we'll buy or rent a property with extra rooms and they can visit us any time they like'. Or you may think about commuting on a regular basis back to the UK to see them.

But the first idea relies upon your family having the money and the time to visit you. Not that easy in the present economic climate and with school attendance to consider.
And the second relies on you having a continual source of money to visit them. And that means extra income after all of your increasing living expenses are taken out.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> One thing only on one persons list at the moment is family ties. But it's the one that got me.
> If you have a family back in the UK that you are very close to, you are going to miss them a great deal when you live in Spain.
> 
> In the heat of the moment, you may say 'we'll buy or rent a property with extra rooms and they can visit us any time they like'. Or you may think about commuting on a regular basis back to the UK to see them.
> ...


You are of course quite right.
But in our case we see much more of son and dil since we left the UK. They, especially my dil, visit their house at least once a month and as their place is a five minute drive from here we spend a lot of time together.
When I fly to the UK for a conference etc. I make a point of staying with them in their house in Surrey which is equidistant from Heathrow and Gatwick Airports.
We never seemed to be able to get together that often when we were in the UK.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> It used to amaze me that when I spoke to other expats in spain and I'd tell them I'm not a drinker, they would often say to me "well why did you come to spain if you dont drink???" and be totally baffled!!
> 
> Jo xxx


There are some very :crazy: silly :loco: people out there, aren't there?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Solwriter said:


> One thing only on one persons list at the moment is family ties. But it's the one that got me.
> If you have a family back in the UK that you are very close to, you are going to miss them a great deal when you live in Spain.
> 
> In the heat of the moment, you may say 'we'll buy or rent a property with extra rooms and they can visit us any time they like'. Or you may think about commuting on a regular basis back to the UK to see them.
> ...


Hhhhmmm. I find that I probably spoke to my daughters more when I was in spain. They lived in my UK house and we skyped and phoned often. Now I'm back and just up the road, the novelty has worn off and they usually only call me if they want something 

Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> Hhhhmmm. I find that I probably spoke to my daughters more when I was in spain. They lived in my UK house and we skyped and phoned often. Now I'm back and just up the road, the novelty has worn off and they usually only call me if they want something
> 
> Jo xxx


I think it very much depends on circumstances.
The need to have enough money (and then some) has been noted again and again. But I would guess that a very large number of immigrants already here do not have a large source of income. And if they did once, it's all gone now.
Plus, we cannot ensure that the family we leave back home will continue to have enough to get by.

I have a large family in the UK. All of them are struggling right now, even those who have reasonably paid jobs. So even things like the cost of renewing passports may soon become prohibitive when bills have to be paid first.
And as to phoning them regularly, as our internet connection is very poor, we cannot use skype and we have to limit our calls according to whether we think we can afford the telefonica bill each month.

I do agree, when I'm in the Uk for a long spell, the novelty of seeing me (and me seeing them) wears off a bit. 
But that feels at it should be.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Solwriter said:


> I do agree, when I'm in the Uk for a long spell, the novelty of seeing me (and me seeing them) wears off a bit.
> But that feels at it should be.



I'm ok with it!! My daughters work in the airline industry and are busy and very typical "20 somethings" who are always off doing something. I know they are glad that I'm back in the UK and there just in case..!!!!!

Actually out of interest and changing the subject completely. They work for Thomas Cook, who a few months ago were in trouble, so both my daughters took voluntary reduncancy. They have now both received letters informing them that Thomas Cook is now doing fine and would they please withdraw their redundancy offers and take a financial reward and keep their jobs??!! 

Jo xxxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Solwriter said:


> One thing only on one persons list at the moment is family ties. But it's the one that got me.
> If you have a family back in the UK that you are very close to, you are going to miss them a great deal when you live in Spain.


So true. Of the ten retired Brits who lived in my village when we moved here (2008) four returned to the UK because they missed their grandchildren and three more would like to but can't sell their houses. They spend a fortune - more than they can afford - flying back to the UK at Christmas laden with presents.

I only know about life in rural Spain outside the Brit-zones (the term "real Spain" makes certain hackles rise but perhaps am I allowed to say "España profunda"? ). It is not everyone's cup of tea. But if you have an open mind and sense of adventure I would still recommend it, provided you don't have to work.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> So true. Of the ten retired Brits who lived in my village when we moved here (2008) four returned to the UK because they missed their grandchildren and three more would like to but can't sell their houses. They spend a fortune - more than they can afford - flying back to the UK at Christmas laden with presents.
> 
> I only know about life in rural Spain outside the Brit-zones (the term "real Spain" makes certain hackles rise but perhaps am I allowed to say "España profunda"? ). It is not everyone's cup of tea. But if you have an open mind and sense of adventure I would still recommend it, provided you don't have to work.


To go back to the old argument, anything that is in Spain is Real Spain, and that includes Benidorm, Baeza, Burgos and Bilbao. I think what you're making a distinction between is coastal resort Spain and other parts of the country. 

Anyway :focus:
There may be sense in looking at those other parts of the country if you're looking for work. Of course the weather might not be as warm as in the south, but if you're looking for work and a possibly better standard of life, it's not all weather bound, is it?

This map clearly shows that unemployment is worse in the south of the country. (Map from 27th Jan 2012 from the Instituto Nacional de Estadistica. See here for more info paro españa 2011 — idealista.com/news/)












Here's a link to another map with more detail

investorsconundrum.com – El Blog para el Inversor con Ideas Propias – Donde Invertir en Bolsa hoy » Mapa del paro total y de jóvenes en España, Europa y Estados Unidos

On the other hand, if you really are looking for work and you're coming from the UK, the US, Ireland, and even Greece , I would question the wisdom of your choice given the information that is at our fingertips. If you want WORK it looks like Norway, Denmark or Switzerland would be your choice within Europe. And English is much more widely spoken there than in Spain. The following graph is from a year ago. Unemployment in Spain has increased since then.


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## mustlovedogz (Oct 25, 2011)

*crikey...*

listen to you lot... moan, moan, moan.... I would much rather be skint, out of work, miserable and WARM, than looking out onto these horrible grey dull wet and FREEZING cold days here - there are NO great jobs in the UK either these days. I loved every minute of living in Spain the last time even although I was completely broke and very, very alone. For me, a little sun makes everything seem slighter better - even though I know its not. And I don't even sit out in it. Or drink for that matter.
(Please don't all shout at me at once now for that wee outburst ....  , from the comfort of your sunny, mild and calm, warm, blue sky above your head, balconies)


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

mustlovedogz said:


> listen to you lot... moan, moan, moan.... I would much rather be skint, out of work, miserable and WARM, than looking out onto these horrible grey dull wet and FREEZING cold days here - there are NO great jobs in the UK either these days. I loved every minute of living in Spain the last time even although I was completely broke and very, very alone. For me, a little sun makes everything seem slighter better - even though I know its not. And I don't even sit out in it. Or drink for that matter.
> (Please don't all shout at me at once now for that wee outburst ....  , from the comfort of your sunny, mild and calm, warm, blue sky above your head, balconies)


You're hilarious. It's currently 15 degrees in my flat and 6 degrees and foggy outside. It's been cold and either snowing or very cloudy for about two weeks now. OH is working 1/3 time and I'm working full time and paying the bills. It's February 10th and the government still hasn't paid me yet. I would live in the arctic if it meant I could have a good, happy, night's sleep without lying in bed worrying.

Who should move to Spain? Any sort of religious figure who can work miracles. We kind of need it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mustlovedogz said:


> listen to you lot... moan, moan, moan.... I would much rather be skint, out of work, miserable and WARM, than looking out onto these horrible grey dull wet and FREEZING cold days here - there are NO great jobs in the UK either these days. I loved every minute of living in Spain the last time even although I was completely broke and very, very alone. For me, a little sun makes everything seem slighter better - even though I know its not. And I don't even sit out in it. Or drink for that matter.
> (Please don't all shout at me at once now for that wee outburst ....  , from the comfort of your sunny, mild and calm, warm, blue sky above your head, balconies)


All I can say (very quietly) is that you are very easily pleased.
At what point, I wonder, would you in your little paradise begin to think how you would pay the rent, buy food, look sfter your children if you had any?
I think you are missing the point which is that we aren't moaning as most of us at least those not worried about work are perfectly happy.
I've just come in from a pleasant couple of hours sitting on my terrace by my pool reading...
I haven't come home knackered from a low-paid job, I don't have to worry how to make ends meet.
We are merely telling those who think they can come here with no or few skills and no Spanish that jobs aren't lying around like oranges.
As my old Gran said'You can't live on fresh air'.

Alca...with respect, your town is fewer than 100km from the coast not far from Soto Grande...hardly Espana Profunda The A7 is on your doorstep.
And you'll find Brits in the remotest areas...in the mountains, in the deserts, in the real Espana profunda.....a Brit will pop up.
Last year we visited what to me is the Spanish equivalent of la France profonde....we stayed at a B&B in the hills around Rio Gordo, in a hamlet called something like 'The Valley of the Laughing Frogs'...I can't remember the name. Therre were about seven houses there. Getting to it involved taking your life in your hands....you had to drive down a very steep and narrow cart track and cross a river bed. No way could you drive out of the village after heavy rain....the only way out was via a perilously constructed footbridge. 
We stayed for a couple of days and took long walks in the hills...and we found Brits even in these remote places. We got lost and a guy came along the dusty track...I spoke to him in my best Spanish ..and got a reply in a Sarf London drawl.
Another time we stopped to look at the map and a female Scottish voice called from a small finca to ask if we were lost and if we'd like a drink...
I tell you, we are EVERYWHERE.....


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## mustlovedogz (Oct 25, 2011)

halydia said:


> You're hilarious. It's currently 15 degrees in my flat and 6 degrees and foggy outside. It's been cold and either snowing or very cloudy for about two weeks now. OH is working 1/3 time and I'm working full time and paying the bills. It's February 10th and the government still hasn't paid me yet. I would live in the arctic if it meant I could have a good, happy, night's sleep without lying in bed worrying.
> 
> Who should move to Spain? Any sort of religious figure who can work miracles. We kind of need it.


See, I knew this would happen on this forum. All I meant was the sunny days at least make things seem better even if they aren't. I can't even begin to describe how little we have seen the sun or even a tiny wee glimpse of a blue sky from one month to the next. We don't see the sun here for weeks at a time. Damn west coast middle peninsular in Scotland. Bet if I was a southern I wouldn't be so desperate to get back to my beautiful Andalucia. 

Crikey, if its so bad, why do you stay......? rather than moan and moan, and be kinda harsh with your "you're hilarious" sarcastic comment (ouch!) Like you, (clearly deduced from your very unhappy sounding comment) I don't like it here. I've been working long and hard for years in a country I don't want to be in, putting plans into action to improve my unpleasant condition. Maybe you should do the same. 

I spent the coldest 3 months of the year in a massive cold flat in Spain, crying myself to sleep cause I missed my Husband so much.....so I know how cold and miserable it gets.... don't presume I'm ignorant to that. 

We had just had a disastrous 3 months and on the way to Andalucia, to a new job for him in Malaga ( a proper grown up job before you start) It fell through and I was abandoned alone with our dog while he had to fly to Amsterdam instead. But, ahhh, so many happy people..... even in the face of unemployment and hardship... I loved it although I cried most days for other reasons... I still loved it. I had bad times trying to speak the language, but I loved it. 

I was asked out for meals by people I met and had to make up excuses as I only had a tenner to do me for a month. We were behind on our mortgage in the UK. I lived on beans so my dog could have proper dog food, but I loved it. We used to walk out in the middle of the weak January sun, just to get a little warmth in my bones... but I loved it. I remember being sock-less in my sandals in February, amazing, I loved it. Had to wear socks the whole summer I lived in Aberdeen. I had no money, but boy did my wee dog and I love walking out, exploring and discovering. Scraping money for a bus and doing a packed lunch, so we could take hours walking back. That was our cheap excitement. But I loved it. 

Anyway... enough justifying my reasons for pointing out that you may all be moaing but at least you are moaning from a country most people want to be already. You terrible unlucky and downtrodden bunch. 
Crikey.... I'll go back to reading advice from afar and definitely not posting again. You scary bunch. lol.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> All I can say (very quietly) is that you are very easily pleased.
> At what point, I wonder, would you in your little paradise begin to think how you would pay the rent, buy food, look sfter your children if you had any?
> I think you are missing the point which is that we aren't moaning as most of us at least those not worried about work are perfectly happy.
> I've just come in from a pleasant couple of hours sitting on my terrace by my pool reading...
> ...


And of course if you are broke skint out of work and cold in the UK at least you have the warmth and help of the benefits system ... whereas if you are broke, skint and out of work here then you might just find yourself sitting outside one of our many supermarkets with a begging bowl, cos you will be on your own 

Spain is a lovely place to live still these days* if you dont have to work.* Its not as cheap as it was back in the day when the €/£ was 1.5, but it still allowed me to retire at the age of 52 and enjoy the rest of my life


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mustlovedogz said:


> See, I knew this would happen on this forum. All I meant was the sunny days at least make things seem better even if they aren't. I can't even begin to describe how little we have seen the sun or even a tiny wee glimpse of a blue sky from one month to the next. We don't see the sun here for weeks at a time. Damn west coast middle peninsular in Scotland. Bet if I was a southern I wouldn't be so desperate to get back to my beautiful Andalucia.
> 
> Crikey, if its so bad, why do you stay......? rather than moan and moan, and be kinda harsh with your "you're hilarious" sarcastic comment (ouch!) Like you, (clearly deduced from your very unhappy sounding comment) I don't like it here. I've been working long and hard for years in a country I don't want to be in, putting plans into action to improve my unpleasant condition. Maybe you should do the same.
> 
> ...


Why take the hump? We're happy to have you here ... maybe you can cheer the unhappy up 

Its human nature. When we were in the UK we moaned about that. You're moaning about that. When we're in Spain some of us moan about here. Its because people ALWAYS moan about where they live, thats all 

Hang around, cheer em up


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## mustlovedogz (Oct 25, 2011)

*LOL.... yes ....*

you're right. Not taking the hump really - hate it when others do that. Just hate the moans when you really are in places others would give their right arm to be. 

I travelled a lot and my friends were jealous... but I know its different from the other side... it was tiring, expensive, we didn't get to stay in all these lovely places and settle.... I was jealous of their settled lives and they were jealous of mine. LOL We're never happy... but seriously.... it's not fair to moan and moan about the place (and be harsh, there's no need) like what's her face was doing.... MOVE.

You are all already IN SPAIN.... how COOOOOOOLLLLLL (this from a very sensible mature lady) but seriously...... you are where everyone on here would like to be - (otherwise they'd be on the HK forum wouldn't they??) Lol..... so some of us are SOOOOOOOOOOOO jealous. Please allow us that.... 

We think we have had a lucky break and hope we can make it stick this time over there. Just weren't ready last time. But maybe it wont work out... who knows and WHO CARES... whooooo hoooooo (is that really me talking.....???? such positiveness - my Husband would be proud) tee hee. x


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mustlovedogz said:


> you're right. Not taking the hump really - hate it when others do that. Just hate the moans when you really are in places others would give their right arm to be.
> 
> I travelled a lot and my friends were jealous... but I know its different from the other side... it was tiring, expensive, we didn't get to stay in all these lovely places and settle.... I was jealous of their settled lives and they were jealous of mine. LOL We're never happy... but seriously.... it's not fair to moan and moan about the place (and be harsh, there's no need) like what's her face was doing.... MOVE.
> 
> ...


I don't think your posts were serious - correct me if I'm wrong - but I would like to clear up misunderstandings that often seem to happen on these kind of threads.
1. For the most part the people who are already here are not moaning. 
2. The people who are already here, for the most part, are not trying to jelously guard Spain for themselves.

What we are trying to do is give a fair image of Spain to those who are considering moving here and dispell the fairy tale of a beer by the pool, constant work available, constant sunshine on tap.

Like I said before, if you are well documented and still want to make the move come on down; we'll be ready to take your custom and money, but _*no moaning allowed*_ about prices, work, cuts in public services etc

PS Have just come back from a walk down to the town with a crisp wind blowing into me all the way off snow covered (at last!) mountains. The weather forecast tells me it's minus 6, and that's without the wind chill factor


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## mustlovedogz (Oct 25, 2011)

*gosh.....*

and here was me thinking it never dropped below 90!!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mustlovedogz said:


> See, I knew this would happen on this forum. All I meant was the sunny days at least make things seem better even if they aren't. I can't even begin to describe how little we have seen the sun or even a tiny wee glimpse of a blue sky from one month to the next. We don't see the sun here for weeks at a time. Damn west coast middle peninsular in Scotland. Bet if I was a southern I wouldn't be so desperate to get back to my beautiful Andalucia.
> 
> Crikey, if its so bad, why do you stay......? rather than moan and moan, and be kinda harsh with your "you're hilarious" sarcastic comment (ouch!) Like you, (clearly deduced from your very unhappy sounding comment) I don't like it here. I've been working long and hard for years in a country I don't want to be in, putting plans into action to improve my unpleasant condition. Maybe you should do the same.
> 
> ...


I'm from the South of the UK, but it's still grey most of the time there.
And I'll admit that when I first used to go back to the UK, I hated those grey skies and really missed the sun. 
I also hated (and still do) all those announcements telling you what to do as soon as you arrive at the airport and the feeling you are under surveillance.

When you talk about being poor and happy I know exactly what you mean. Some of our best times (here and in the UK) have been when we have been scraping together enough cash to buy food (yes it's been that bad a few times). Perhaps it's the Dunkirk spirit or something. 

With my reply, you caught me on a bad day. Slow internet, car in the garage being fixed, and every single one of our dogs seeming as if they are doing their best to annoy us. I really miss 'home' on days like that.

You carry on with your positive about Spain posts.
No complaints here.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mustlovedogz said:


> and here was me thinking it never dropped below 90!!


And the streets are not paved with gold either, as pointed out on a recent thread 

Perhaps I should also point out 
Spanish is not the first language in all parts of Spain
Lunch is not normally served before 1:30
Sunglasses are considered normal winter wear
Bull fighting is banned in some parts of Spain
Not everyone has a siesta


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm not moaning - I'm very happy with my life here.
We're not moaning, we're warning. That's different.
Now...I can understand anyone Scottish thinking life on a can of beans in Spain is worth it for a wee bit of sun....My OH is from Glasgow and we had originally planned to go back there when we get really old and decrepit...but a trip back there last April cured me of that desire. We're here for good.
I'm really pleased to note that you went without yourself to feed your dog. That makes you a Good Person in our eyes. We love our dog to bits and both of us work for a local dog rescue charity.
Not everyone is able to cope with being down and out abroad. Families split up, children suffer. A lot of people can't fall back on their own resources as you clearly can. We can too....give us a long walk with our dog and a couple of good books or a Radio 4 Podcast on the terrace....we're happy.
Because as Strav PW and others have said: we don't need to work.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mustlovedogz said:


> See, I knew this would happen on this forum. All I meant was the sunny days at least make things seem better even if they aren't. I can't even begin to describe how little we have seen the sun or even a tiny wee glimpse of a blue sky from one month to the next. We don't see the sun here for weeks at a time. Damn west coast middle peninsular in Scotland. Bet if I was a southern I wouldn't be so desperate to get back to my beautiful Andalucia.
> 
> Crikey, if its so bad, why do you stay......? rather than moan and moan, and be kinda harsh with your "you're hilarious" sarcastic comment (ouch!) Like you, (clearly deduced from your very unhappy sounding comment) I don't like it here. I've been working long and hard for years in a country I don't want to be in, putting plans into action to improve my unpleasant condition. Maybe you should do the same.
> 
> ...




Cowal?


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## mustlovedogz (Oct 25, 2011)

*YES!! LOL How did you guess?*

Must have been the "raining for three months now" quote that gave that away!!! I lived in Dumfries and Galloway.... didn't rain there like it does here!!!!!! 

I lived in Aberdeen too, didn't rain much there at all.... could have lived there actually. But boy was it COLD. Even living in Norway was preferable to here! Wasn't cold in Norway at all due to their ways of living. We had bright blue skies and sparkly sparkly snow. Beautiful. Not like this den of iniquity.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

mustlovedogz said:


> Must have been the "raining for three months now" quote that gave that away!!! I lived in Dumfries and Galloway.... didn't rain there like it does here!!!!!!
> 
> I lived in Aberdeen too, didn't rain much there at all.... could have lived there actually. But boy was it COLD. Even living in Norway was preferable to here! Wasn't cold in Norway at all due to their ways of living. We had bright blue skies and sparkly sparkly snow. Beautiful. Not like this den of iniquity.



I live near Aberdeen and it certainly doesn't seem to rain as much as the west coast - but ooh, it is so cold. Wind chill factor from the North Sea must compete with Pesky's! It really hurts when the BBC news tells us day after day about the "warm spell" or "heat wave" - look at the temps on the weather map, and we are quite easily 10' less than in the South! Socks all summer - aye, pretty much so.

:focus: Who should live in Spain, now? My daughter moved over last year and is having a ball! At the other end of the spectrum from those lucky people who are happily retired there - she meets the criteria of young, free, no ties, secure job (before she arrived) with a friendly bunch of colleagues who helped her find her feet. Yes, the sun does make it easy to have a good time. Cheap bottle of wine - or two - and head for the beach or the mountains. So much cheaper than the pub, cinema, bowling, etc in Glasgow.

If it didn't work out, she'd lose nothing at this stage in life -she'd simply pack up and move back in with me (neither of us would survive it for long!!!!) until she settled. She may stay a year or two then come back home, she may stay forever or she may go somewhere else - who knows

That is all so, so different from those planning a move with no job, no savings, uprooting kids and disturbing their education. We've seen a similar thing on TV a lot in recent years with folk thinking they can buy some wreck of a property in France, do it up for nothing and live some idyllic life. Just ain't gonna happen - and often these people are penniless by the time reality hits.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

.....and I can have the beat of both worlds, secure job at home with lots of "cheap hols" in the sun. As I don't have to pay for the hotel, I can fork out for little treats to let us explore more of Spain!


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## mustlovedogz (Oct 25, 2011)

*Aberdeeeennn...*

Yeah, we loved it up there... but too cold for me n my wee 'dug'. And like you said about your Daughter, if it don't work out, we'll just go elsewhere too... not back to Blighty though me thinks... might have to be the Borders if I really have to come back... Only place in UK I would settle (a deep dark Northumbrian valley special to my heart) is the only place my husband won't...! Arghhhh Maybe I could persuade him to move at least nearby there if Spain doesn't work. 

The only place we don't argue over is Spain.  It's nice to have a choice though. (a risky choice, but still a choice.....) We miss Germany but it's almost impossible to settle there.... and I do love Spain slightly more... sorry to any German lovely folk, of whom I know plenty of. The Spanish are usually quicker to smile and say hello in the street. A trait I really missed in Germany.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mustlovedogz said:


> I travelled a lot and my friends were jealous... but I know its different from the other side... it was tiring, expensive, we didn't get to stay in all these lovely places and settle.... I was jealous of their settled lives and they were jealous of mine. LOL We're never happy... but seriously.... it's not fair to moan and moan about the place (and be harsh, there's no need) like what's her face was doing.... MOVE.



Well .... I've got to mention in all this that I used to own a shipping company, and part of the positives of that were that I travelled a lot too. I enjoyed it greatly, but I _did_ realise that the beauty of it was that I didnt have to stop where I was visiting, I always managed to get home.

For those that live in the UK, they often post on here saying they hate the country and want to leave. Now, Ive lived in Spain for a good few years, and I enjoy the life here. I'm not moaning about it, but I do find many things here annoying. When _you_ get here, you'll find the same .... I can assure you.

But when all this has been said, I still regard Great Britain as the country that I love ... with all its problems and challenges it's still my home.

I'll go back one day. I dont know when, and I dont know why ... but I will. Spain is where I live right now and I am comfortable with that. Great Britain is home and always will be.

Please ..... enjoy it when you move but please don't think that Spain doesn't have challenges that you will have to deal with.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Alca...with respect, your town is fewer than 100km from the coast not far from Soto Grande...hardly Espana Profunda The A7 is on your doorstep.
> And you'll find Brits in the remotest areas...in the mountains, in the deserts, in the real Espana profunda.....a Brit will pop up.


100 km and 100 years from Sotogrande, with respect. Come over and see! 

It takes us nearly an hour to get to the A7. Until they built the A381 in 2005 it took much longer; Laurie Lee describes a four-hour bus trip from Algeciras to Alcala in one of his books. 

We can't even get out of the village at the moment because both the main access roads are being repaired at the same time - good old Spanish planning.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> 100 km and 100 years from Sotogrande, with respect. Come over and see!
> 
> It takes us nearly an hour to get to the A7. Until they built the A381 in 2005 it took much longer; Laurie Lee describes a four-hour bus trip from Algeciras to Alcala in one of his books.
> 
> We can't even get out of the village at the moment because both the main access roads are being repaired at the same time - good old Spanish planning.


But there are Brits in it!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Well .... I've got to mention in all this that I used to own a shipping company, and part of the positives of that were that I travelled a lot too. I enjoyed it greatly, but I _did_ realise that the beauty of it was that I didnt have to stop where I was visiting, I always managed to get home.
> 
> For those that live in the UK, they often post on here saying they hate the country and want to leave. Now, Ive lived in Spain for a good few years, and I enjoy the life here. I'm not moaning about it, but I do find many things here annoying. When _you_ get here, you'll find the same .... I can assure you.
> 
> ...


I enjoyed reading that Stravinsky. It's a very "square on" attitude, by which I mean you seem contented with life in Spain and under no illusion. I don't think you'll be going back to Britain because of shattered dreams, which unfortunately does happen to some of us.
I can't see me ever going back, and I don't say that with pride or arrogance, I just don't/ can't see why I would live in the UK, but never say never, eh?
So getting
:focus:

who is a good candidate to be an immigrant in Spain nowadays?

Apart from fit, well off older people, and young people prepared to work in the few temporary jobs offered in holiday resorts with fairly low wages and long hours, how about people who want to set up their own business, people who want to go to the north - Bilbao, Santiago, Leon, Vigo ???? people with children under/ over 10, people who speak/ don't speak Spanish

I still say that if you are really looking for stable work you're better off thinking about Norway, Denmark and the like


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> But there are Brits in it!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, about a dozen, plus a handful from other Northern European countries. We are made very welcome, even though we are largely still an object of curiosity. There are no English bars or shops, not even a gift shop, and only a handful of people speak English. 

That's why I said in my original post that you need an open mind and a sense of adventure to live here - it´s not like the CDS where there are Brits in such significant numbers that their needs are catered for.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> I live near Aberdeen and it certainly doesn't seem to rain as much as the west coast - but ooh, it is so cold. Wind chill factor from the North Sea must compete with Pesky's! It really hurts when the BBC news tells us day after day about the "warm spell" or "heat wave" - look at the temps on the weather map, and we are quite easily 10' less than in the South! Socks all summer - aye, pretty much so.
> 
> :focus: Who should live in Spain, now? My daughter moved over last year and is having a ball! At the other end of the spectrum from those lucky people who are happily retired there - she meets the criteria of young, free, no ties, secure job (before she arrived) with a friendly bunch of colleagues who helped her find her feet. Yes, the sun does make it easy to have a good time. Cheap bottle of wine - or two - and head for the beach or the mountains. So much cheaper than the pub, cinema, bowling, etc in Glasgow.
> 
> ...


Good to hear your daughter has settled in. Sounds much like when I left the UK to go to Colombia and later come here. I had a job to go to and colleagues to help me settle in. Was I lucky? To a certain extent, but then again I had planned to a certain extent so... and like your daughter I did have a family that would support me if it didn't work out.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> 100 km and 100 years from Sotogrande, with respect. Come over and see!
> 
> It takes us nearly an hour to get to the A7. Until they built the A381 in 2005 it took much longer; Laurie Lee describes a four-hour bus trip from Algeciras to Alcala in one of his books.
> 
> We can't even get out of the village at the moment because both the main access roads are being repaired at the same time - good old Spanish planning.


Of course...it's not the A7...it's the road from Jerez, the A381? We drive past Alcala when we go to Jerez or westward. It doesn't take long to get to the A7 though which is a plus point. Not good to be cut off as you now know! 
You are certainly 100 years from Sotogrande...be thankful! As you know, it's one of my 'hate' places. 
But that little hamlet in deepest Axarquia we visited was really in the boonies, as the Yanks say. But even there three of the seven houses were owned by Brits..one by a Cambridge don, the other two by Rosie the B&B owner.
The nearest shop was a difficult twenty minute drive away - impossible in bad weather - and telecommunications weren't good. The few people around travelled on those tiny mopeds or horseback.
It was a great place to be for a week or so, with loads of books, your IPod loaded, 
good company. Rosie was an excellent cook, her house was beautiful and relaxing, very soothing to the troubled soul. 
You would have spent most of the time with your paint brush in hand.
For the first time in my life I really understood the meaning of the phrase 'intoxicating fragrance' when I sat in Rosie's lemon grove with a pre-dinner drink.
Anyone interested in this gorgeous place can pm me. It wasn't expensive, I think it was 60 or 70 euros per night for the two of us plus Azor and that included breakfast and dinner with wine.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

brocher said:


> I live near Aberdeen and it certainly doesn't seem to rain as much as the west coast - but ooh, it is so cold. Wind chill factor from the North Sea must compete with Pesky's! It really hurts when the BBC news tells us day after day about the "warm spell" or "heat wave" - look at the temps on the weather map, and we are quite easily 10' less than in the South! Socks all summer - aye, pretty much so.
> 
> :focus: Who should live in Spain, now? My daughter moved over last year and is having a ball! At the other end of the spectrum from those lucky people who are happily retired there - she meets the criteria of young, free, no ties, secure job (before she arrived) with a friendly bunch of colleagues who helped her find her feet. Yes, the sun does make it easy to have a good time. Cheap bottle of wine - or two - and head for the beach or the mountains. So much cheaper than the pub, cinema, bowling, etc in Glasgow.
> *
> ...


Your last paragraph sums it up.
And I've always said that young, single people should take their chance and go for it.
The young and the mature are best placed to make a move at this time, it seems.


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