# FBAR efiling, NRA joint owner



## kalohi

I'm trying to efile my FBAR this year to save on the courier costs. Besides, efiling will be the only option next year so I figured I might as well go ahead and get used to doing it.

I signed up with the BSA efiling system (not as complicated as it first appeared) and am now filling out the actual FBAR form. All fine until I got to the section on jointly owned accounts. I have numerous accounts jointly owned with my NRA husband who doesn't have and doesn't need a SSN or ITIN. But the form won't accept 'NRA' in space 25 where we're supposed to fill in the taxpayer ID number of the joint owner. So now what? It seems to me that many many people filling out the FBAR would have a foreign account jointly owned by - guess who - a foreigner! What an enormous flaw in the efiling system.

So has anyone found a way to work around this problem? I'm thinking I could leave it blank and write NRA spouse next to my husbands last name. What do you think? 

I'm really nervous about making a red flag go up. Last year was my first year filing (I had never heard of the FBAR until then) and I back filed 6 years with a cover letter. I never heard a word from them after I filed and I'd like it to stay that way! So should I just bite the bullet and pay the 25€ for UPS?


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## kalohi

Another question...it appears that when efiling we can't include cents, only dollars (it won't allow periods to separate the dollars from the cents). Does this seem right? I've always indicated the exact amount in my accounts right down to the cents - like on the income tax form.


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## cygnusv

Hi,
I guess you have already tried, but you can try to leave it blank. In the instructions for the printed form it says: "Leave blank items for which no information is available".

Another possibility is to use an obviously trivial identification number (e.g., 000-00-0000). It seems that ITIN numbers have the format 9XX-7X-XXXX or 9XX-8X-XXXX, so maybe 900-70-0000 will do the trick.

Best regards,
V.C.


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## Bevdeforges

Wow, this mandatory filing of FBARs is news to me. (But, yes, I looked it up and they claim the won't take paper FBARs after this year's filing. However, that's what they said last year - and they extended the deadline for another year. So, stay tuned...)

Frankly, you should do whatever it takes. If the SSN/ITIN field won't take NRA, then leave it blank. Personally, I'd just put NRA in the name blank (which is what I do on my US tax returns). For income tax purposes, leaving the SSN blank when you're filing "married filing separately" causes the return to be rejected, but perhaps the BSA site is "smarter" about that.

Still, I think it's a big mistake on their part to make e-filing of FBARs mandatory. I help a "little old lady" friend of mine with her US taxes, and she has no Internet connection, no computer, no nothing for e-filing. Her income is too little to have to file a tax return (we check that every year together), but she does have a couple accounts she is living off that need to be reported on FBAR. Seems to me they either are going to have to accept a paper form or maybe she just won't bother filing at all next year. 

Don't worry about the cents. You've always been able to do either your tax returns or the FBAR forms in even dollars, without reporting the cents.
Cheers,
Bev


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## kalohi

cygnusv said:


> Hi,
> I guess you have already tried, but you can try to leave it blank. In the instructions for the printed form it says: "Leave blank items for which no information is available".
> 
> Another possibility is to use an obviously trivial identification number (e.g., 000-00-0000). It seems that ITIN numbers have the format 9XX-7X-XXXX or 9XX-8X-XXXX, so maybe 900-70-0000 will do the trick.
> 
> Best regards,
> V.C.


The form allows me to leave it blank. I don't know if it would actually go through though if I tried to submit it that way. Or if it would send up a red flag causing them to take a look at me. Hmmm, what to do?


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## kalohi

Bevdeforges said:


> Frankly, you should do whatever it takes. If the SSN/ITIN field won't take NRA, then leave it blank. Personally, I'd just put NRA in the name blank (which is what I do on my US tax returns). For income tax purposes, leaving the SSN blank when you're filing "married filing separately" causes the return to be rejected, but perhaps the BSA site is "smarter" about that.
> 
> Bev


Yes, I'm afraid the FBAR might be rejected if I leave it blank. But then again, the form says 'Taxpayer ID number, _if known_'. That appears to make it possible to leave it blank. 

I'm leaning toward writing NRA Spouse next to my husband's name. They should be able to figure out that there is no SSN or ITIN in that case. (I can hope!) 

I agree that requiring efiling is a mistake. There are loads of people out there who either don't have internet access or who are not technologically able.


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## Bevdeforges

Don't forget, though, that FBAR is merely an information reporting of your bank accounts. Though they threaten all sorts of nasty penalties and punishments, those are mainly for failure to file, not for minor discrepancies on the form. Those are normally identified by computer runs - and frankly, unless you're talking millions in your accounts, chances are they'll let anything minor pass.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Verdande

Hi Bev - I just read this info you posted

"For income tax purposes, leaving the SSN blank when you're filing "married filing separately" causes the return to be rejected"

I have just sent my forms off and am wondering - I did leave the SS number blank on the returns (married filing separately) since my spouse is a NRA. Does that mean they will be rejected? Perhaps I should just send off a new set and put something in the SS number space - but what?
Hopefully not a huge waste of postage.

Thank you so much for all your advice.
Regards, Verdande


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## Nononymous

Verdande said:


> Hi Bev - I just read this info you posted
> 
> "For income tax purposes, leaving the SSN blank when you're filing "married filing separately" causes the return to be rejected"
> 
> I have just sent my forms off and am wondering - I did leave the SS number blank on the returns (married filing separately) since my spouse is a NRA. Does that mean they will be rejected? Perhaps I should just send off a new set and put something in the SS number space - but what?
> Hopefully not a huge waste of postage.
> 
> Thank you so much for all your advice.
> Regards, Verdande


I think that was in reference to e-filing being rejected by the system, not the actual content of the return. If you mailed in printed forms it doesn't apply.


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## Bevdeforges

As Nononymous has pointed out, that was a reference to my attempt to e-file the returns this year. If you're filing on paper, you can do things as you like. They'll only reject paper returns for something really serious - like someone has already filed with your SSN or something like that.
Cheers,
Bev


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## kalohi

Just thought I'd update: I efiled my FBAR a few days ago. I tried to send it in using Firefox (the browser I usually use) and I kept getting an error message. So I switched to Internet Explorer and it went through with no problems. Within seconds I received an email confirmation of "Submission Accepted". 

In the end I left the space blank where it asks for my joint account holder's SSN/ITIN, and I wrote NRA SPOUSE in parentheses after my husbands last name. 

I would evaluate efiling by saying that initially it looks intimidating but in reality it is quite simple. And it's a relief to know so quickly that it's been received safely and with no risk of it falling into the wrong hands while traveling half way around the world. 

Now let's hope that I never hear back from them!


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## SSapro20

Good to know Kalohi, my husband will have to do the same thing this year...yakkk.So after you register with them how long does it take so they can validate your acct with them?Minutes/days or how that works?


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## kalohi

SSapro20 said:


> Good to know Kalohi, my husband will have to do the same thing this year...yakkk.So after you register with them how long does it take so they can validate your acct with them?Minutes/days or how that works?


I'm assuming when you say 'validate your acct' you mean get a new user ID to access their system? Once I filled out their registration form and sent it in, it only took seconds for them to send me my new user ID. With that I could get into the system and finish the registration, which was also instantaneous. All the responses on their end were clearly computer generated so there was no wait time.


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## SSapro20

Hi Kalohi after you entered your PIN nr than you have to submit the form.. It didn't worked like that for my husband. I wonder how that works after entering yout PIN you should click the submit button but I couldn't. .any hints??


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## SSapro20

SSapro20 said:


> Hi Kalohi after you entered your PIN nr than you have to submit the form.. It didn't worked like that for my husband. I wonder how that works after entering yout PIN you should click the submit button but I couldn't. .any hints??


Oh never mind I saw the instructions on the BSA filling system. .


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## SSapro20

Hi a quick update on my husband efile FBAR..it worked for him by using the Firefox browser it didn t worked by using the chrome browser at the begin... .so yeah it was not that bad as I thought..next step for me is to dropp off my GC @ consulate. ..


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