# Cepsa and Repsol cylinder question



## calpeflyer

Hi all,
Does any one here know what the silver Cepsa and orange Repsol bottles contain - Butane or Propane ? I am talking about the 12kg size.
I have an electric water heater in my kitchen in Calpe and am thinking about changing it over to an LPG one - just for hot water not central heating.
Not there at the moment so cant go to the local stockist to check.
Over here in UK only Butane bottles should be kept indoors so would be looking for a gas boiler that runs on Butane - no option to keep gas bottle outside.


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## Jumar

Repsol orange cylinders with a black stripe are propane, without stripe are butane.

Cepsa silver aluminium cylinders are butane, butane is also available in lightweight grey cylinders with red plastic at the top and bottom. Grey steel cylinders are propane.


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## 90199

We changed from gas to electricity, it works out cheaper and is a lot more convenient.


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## Aron

calpeflyer said:


> Hi all,
> Does any one here know what the silver Cepsa and orange Repsol bottles contain - Butane or Propane ? I am talking about the 12kg size.
> I have an electric water heater in my kitchen in Calpe and am thinking about changing it over to an LPG one - just for hot water not central heating.
> Not there at the moment so cant go to the local stockist to check.
> Over here in UK only Butane bottles should be kept indoors so would be looking for a gas boiler that runs on Butane - no option to keep gas bottle outside.


Where we live, we can only get butano. I have two Repsol bottles and two Cepsa. The silver Cepsa bottles are much lighter. I use the lighter bottles on the lower floor, one for the BBQ and the other for the heater. The heavier orange Repsol bottles on the ground floor so I don't need to lift them far. They heat the water. 
I have had the gas bottles for the water heater in a separate room to the boiler, which we were told to do. We built a store room outside to accommodate them. The gas is piped from there into the house.
We recently had a carbon monoxide metre fitted in the lounge kitchen area in case of any fumes. During high winds, we have had a reading on the metre, not dangerously high, but worth bearing in mind.


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## Pesky Wesky

Aron said:


> Where we live, we can only get butano. I have two Repsol bottles and two Cepsa. The silver Cepsa bottles are much lighter. I use the lighter bottles on the lower floor, one for the BBQ and the other for the heater. The heavier orange Repsol bottles on the ground floor so I don't need to lift them far. They heat the water.
> I have had the gas bottles for the water heater in a separate room to the boiler, which we were told to do. We built a store room outside to accommodate them. The gas is piped from there into the house.
> We recently had a carbon monoxide metre fitted in the lounge kitchen area in case of any fumes. During high winds, we have had a reading on the metre, not dangerously high, but worth bearing in mind.


Where did you get the carbon monoxide metre from?


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## Alcalaina

calpeflyer said:


> Hi all,
> Does any one here know what the silver Cepsa and orange Repsol bottles contain - Butane or Propane ? I am talking about the 12kg size.
> I have an electric water heater in my kitchen in Calpe and am thinking about changing it over to an LPG one - just for hot water not central heating.
> Not there at the moment so cant go to the local stockist to check.
> Over here in UK only Butane bottles should be kept indoors so would be looking for a gas boiler that runs on Butane - no option to keep gas bottle outside.


We run our gas boiler and gas hob on propane, and the bottle is kept in the kitchen in a cupboard near the boiler. It's been checked and approved by the authorities.

One bombona lasts about six weeks, providing hot water and cooking for two of us. It currently costs just over €13. Butane is slightly more expensive but burns a bit hotter I believe.


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## Aron

Pesky Wesky said:


> Where did you get the carbon monoxide metre from?


Amazon, it's made by Kidde and we were recommended that model


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## Aron

Alcalaina said:


> We run our gas boiler and gas hob on propane, and the bottle is kept in the kitchen in a cupboard near the boiler. It's been checked and approved by the authorities.
> 
> One bombona lasts about six weeks, providing hot water and cooking for two of us. It currently costs just over €13. Butane is slightly more expensive but burns a bit hotter I believe.


That's fine, we had the same, but after a few years we had a leak and didn't know. One day we had plumber come to check our boiler that had a problem and he got a reading which told us we had a problem. Since then, we keep the bottles out of the house but under cover in a housing we built. Not only do we feel safer, but I can take the bottle straight through the gate and into the housing, which is a few steals away.


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## snikpoh

Alcalaina said:


> We run our gas boiler and gas hob on propane, and the bottle is kept in the kitchen in a cupboard near the boiler. It's been checked and approved by the authorities.
> 
> One bombona lasts about six weeks, providing hot water and cooking for two of us. It currently costs just over €13. Butane is slightly more expensive but burns a bit hotter I believe.


WOW that's cheap. I thought the prices were national?

We just paid 17.50 (for a repsol butane).


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## gus-lopez

snikpoh said:


> WOW that's cheap. I thought the prices were national?
> 
> We just paid 17.50 (for a repsol butane).


That's because it is propane & only 11kgs in a bottle & therefore cheaper.


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## country boy

Gas envasado, bombona de butano - repsol.com


You do get some erroneous answers on forums!


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## Aron

snikpoh said:


> WOW that's cheap. I thought the prices were national?
> 
> We just paid 17.50 (for a repsol butane).


It's been €17.50 here for some time now, both Repsol and Cepsa


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## calpeflyer

Thanks for your replies.
How much are the larger propane cylinders these days - are they 35 or 40 kg ?
I understand the price of the smaller cylinders are regulated but not the bigger ones ?


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## country boy

62€ for a 35 kilo propane, inc tax.

Precio botellas de propano de 35 kg

El precio del propano envasado se encuentra regulado por el gobierno en los envases que contienen una cantidad de propano situada entre 8 y 20 kg. De esta forma, el precio de las botellas de 35 kg está liberalizado y cada compañía suministradora es libre de establecer un precio diferente.

Actualmente Repsol establece un precio de 62,00 euros, incluyendo el impuesto de hidrocarburos de 0,53 euros. El resto de compañías de propano, Cepsa y Galp Energía establecen un precio muy similar.


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## Alcalaina

country boy said:


> Gas envasado, bombona de butano - repsol.com
> 
> 
> You do get some erroneous answers on forums!


Well, our local office can't have put the price up yet then - I bought two 11kg bombonas de propano last week with enough change from €30 to buy a large loaf!


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## BGD

Just to be clear, the small bottles of butane, whether from repsol or cepsa, all contain 12.5 kgs of butane. The prices of all gas bottles are nationally regulated by the spanish energy minister, who reviews the retail price 3 (or 4?) Times each year, and is currently 17.50.
The small bottles of propane from both suppliers contain 11kgs of propane. This gas is very rarely used in small bottle format in spain, and thus can be difficult to find. It gives less heat than butane, but doesn't go milky and refuse to gas off below about 5 degrees (unlike butane).
The big orange repsol bottles contain 35kgs of propane....mainly used for central heating with the bottles kept outdoors, so not affected by really cold temperatures as butane would be. Present cost is 62.50 per bottle.

All modern domestic gas appliances.....hobs, water heaters, estufas etc.....all operate on 30mbar pressure regulators, and can be used with either type of gas.


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## country boy

Alcalaina said:


> Well, our local office can't have put the price up yet then - I bought two 11kg bombonas de propano last week with enough change from €30 to buy a large loaf!


All I can say is....don't tell 'em, they are giving it away!


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## calpeflyer

So it looks like 12.5kg Butane is the way to go - cheaper per kg than the 35kg Propane and no expense of pipework and outside storage.


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## calpeflyer

The next question would be which brand of heater - there appear to be two common ones - Junkers and Ferrolli - has anyone got any feedback on either ?
I would be looking for about 10 litres per minute and the type of heater where ignition is by electrode/battery as opposed to a constant pilot flame.
Thanks to all so far for your posts.


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## country boy

Junkers for me every time, reliable with good spares availability, with a good flow rate and seasonably adjustable for max efficiency . Been fitting 'em for years and years and......erm...where was I !:santa:


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## BGD

Calpe flyer - yes, the 12.5kgs bottles of butane is the way to go. 

Just so long as the ambient temperature where the bottle in use is being kept doesn't fall to/below 2 degrees celsius ( 'cos that's the temperature at/below which the liquid butane stops "boiling" off and thus creating the gas that you draw off and burn).
In practice you should just about never have such a problem on the Costa Blanca coast in Spain....millions of such butane bottles are located outside here without any low-temperature problems.

The second reason for using butane rather than propane is that Butane has a higher calorific value. In simple terms you get about 10% more bangs-for-your-buck....10% more heat/longer use. 

And the third is simply 'cos everywhere in Spain stocks butane bottles, but almost nowhere stocks propane bottles. Propane is only popular in colder countries (like the UK).


On calientador brands, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. 
Just make sure you get one with battery ignition, rather than the old (and terribly inefficient) pilot flame arrangement. 
Junkers is a Rolls Royce brand. Vaillant is a good Spanish brand and has a very good home service/repair engineer backup. Ariston is another good brand.
Expect to pay maybe €220 to €300 retail price for a new, 11-litre-per-minute one from Vaillant/Ariston. Maybe €50 or more etxra for Junkers.
Fitting might cost you €50?


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## thrax

When our old boiler decided to try and murder us we replaced it with a battery ignition Junkers. Excellent boiler!! Our model cost €390 new.


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## calpeflyer

Excellent - thank you people !!


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## VFR

country boy said:


> Junkers for me every time, reliable with good spares availability, with a good flow rate and seasonably adjustable for max efficiency . Been fitting 'em for years and years and......erm...where was I !:santa:


Evening CB.
Yes the flame will increase a tad (as far as I can remember) but will not flame high anywhere like it used to, regardless of the water flow Or gas setting that of course is set to max.
Hope these pic's help you to point me in the right direction ? 

BTW all spade connectors checked and look sound.


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## gus-lopez

What is the problem with it ? I had one of those & the pcb packed up.


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## VFR

gus-lopez said:


> What is the problem with it ? I had one of those & the pcb packed up.


Morning Gus.
CountryBoy is also mulling this rascal over for me as well (very helpful) and no doubt its one of those little valves or the PCB that you mention ?

Its a Hydro Power 18lit heater that has lost the ability to make a large flame & as such will not heat the water.
The water pressure/flow can be altered and the gas setting is on max, but even on the low flow position the flame is still to small to heat the water.
BTW I have removed the heat exchanger from above and de-scaled it.

Using a new electric boiler at present but it would be useful to get this fellow up and running again.


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## country boy

I think the best advice for me to give, initially, is to check the gas supply: I would change the regulator first, then I would try Propane rather than Butane. After that I really can't tell you what to do from a distance, you need a gas fitter. Try that first anyway; always start with the simple things is a good maxim I've found in life!
Good luck


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## snikpoh

.... and check that the water pressure is high enough to 'kick it into action'.


We had a problem with low pressure and the boiler simply wouldn't fire up. We changed a couple of things to increase the pressure and hey presto, hot water!


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## Pesky Wesky

We have had a Cointra boiler for 20 years - not the same one though (one had to be replaced after a surge of power during a storm knocked it out, quite a common occurance), and the only problem we've had is that about every 4 years the "membrana" needs to be replaced, a rubber membrane. First the water doesn't heat upstairs and then it doesn't heat at all.
It makes you think that it's a water pressure problem, but it isn't.


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## Aron

snikpoh said:


> .... and check that the water pressure is high enough to 'kick it into action'.
> 
> 
> We had a problem with low pressure and the boiler simply wouldn't fire up. We changed a couple of things to increase the pressure and hey presto, hot water!


Our water pressure is above 12 bar. We have had to fit a limiter to the pipe to ease the pressure. Before that, we kept getting burst pipes due to the high pressure. We have it set about 4 or 5 bar now and even that seems too much some days.


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## gus-lopez

yes possibly what PW said. The diaphragm.Used to be a common problem on the models that do C/H & water. My pcb problem was not lighting at all.


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## Pesky Wesky

gus-lopez said:


> yes possibly what PW said. The diaphragm.Used to be a common problem on the models that do C/H & water. My pcb problem was not lighting at all.


Ah ha!
That's the word!


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## VFR

Obliged for all the points raised people but these I have covered / checked in the past, its odds on it is one of the wee valves in the pictures & as suggested I will get a chico to have a shuffti.


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