# UAE Population Imbalance



## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

UAE to draft population strategy to address 'imbalance' - The National

If you do a search around on the emirati forums, they are all set to throw 500k of the expats out, NOW, TODAY, ASAP... Get the planes ready. They are non the nicer about the situation. 

So.... will there be changes???


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

You can't blame them, or say it hasn't been coming - emiratisation anyone? 

I think they're running scared and need to protect their identity, hence the different statuses of married emiratis, if i was to marry one I won't become a citizen (although why I'd want to is a different subject) more to the point, nor would my kids.

But an emirati male that marries a foreigner then the kids get emirati passports?

Not an ideal situation is it?


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

It's a shame people can't be honest with themselves about the problems they are facing and what's caused those problems.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

If there are too many unskilled expats who is going to labour on the construction sites, clean the malls or be maids. Can't imagine many Emiratis lining up for those jobs!


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

But who's going to fill all these apartments and houses they keep building?

The UAE really needs to make its mind up what it wants to be.


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## da-mela (Jan 30, 2011)

Can egypt revolution happen in UAE, or they are too liberalized that locals dont care? did the recession really impact any local emiratis or it was only expats (laborers and mid level mgrs) that got shafted.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

da-mela said:


> Can egypt revolution happen in UAE, or they are too liberalized that locals dont care? did the recession really impact any local emiratis or it was only expats (laborers and mid level mgrs) that got shafted.


The revolution in Egypt could also happen in the US. I don't think the Emirati's are liberalized enough, but are comfortable with the conditions and not looking to "rock the boat". But please tell us your thoughts da-mela, along with your background so we get a good understanding of things.

The recession did impact the local Emiratis. It took business away which would have given them experience by learning/seeing things happen in their area.


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

da-mela said:


> Can egypt revolution happen in UAE, or they are too liberalized that locals dont care? did the recession really impact any local emiratis or it was only expats (laborers and mid level mgrs) that got shafted.


You can't begin to compare the conditions that Egyptians live under to those of Emiratis. Do you understand why Egyptians are revolting? It's not about the government - but what the government has done and not done for the people. Emiratis are very well taken care of by the government.

The recession had an impact on everyone and business - across the board. I don't understand how you can say laborers and mid level mgrs got shafted. How so?? Many companies were forced to downsize, from the top to the bottom.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Sunset said:


> Do you understand why Egyptians are revolting?


They don't wash and they eat pigeons?


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

gavtek said:


> they don't wash and they eat pigeons?


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

Gavtek said:


> They don't wash and they eat pigeons?





Mr Rossi said:


>


This coming from men who wear skirts.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

Sunset said:


> You can't begin to compare the conditions that Egyptians live under to those of Emiratis. Do you understand why Egyptians are revolting? It's not about the government - but what the government has done and not done for the people. Emiratis are very well taken care of by the government.
> 
> The recession had an impact on everyone and business - across the board. I don't understand how you can say laborers and mid level mgrs got shafted. How so?? Many companies were forced to downsize, from the top to the bottom.


I believe the comparison can be made, even though conditions are different. Should whatever sort of middle class there is among the Emirati's happen to slip backward, we'll begin to hear the rumblings from this group that used to have better conditions to now having to give things up. This could happen in any country.

I can sum it up for you with regards to laborers and the mid-level managers getting the shaft. They lost their jobs, whereas the top guys just scaled things back. I recall one night in early 2009 at Barasti when an English guy walked into the restroom and half laughing half upset, saying he had just arrived and now they were shutting the construction project down that he had just signed on to. The top guys didn't lose their jobs, therefore the lower people got the shaft.


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## da-mela (Jan 30, 2011)

great responses... so what could be the tipping point in uae if it has to happen? too many foreigners, high unemployment for locals, oil income running out (not directly dubai) or just the domino effect of egypt, tunisia and others to follow...


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

da-mela said:


> great responses... so what could be the tipping point in uae if it has to happen? too many foreigners, high unemployment for locals, oil income running out (not directly dubai) or just the domino effect of egypt, tunisia and others to follow...


What do you think?


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## da-mela (Jan 30, 2011)

Iron Horse said:


> What do you think?


i think it could be any one or the combination of stuff...just getting little cautious with all the stuff going on...!!

now, what do you think Iron Horse?


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

da-mela said:


> i think it could be any one or the combination of stuff...just getting little cautious with all the stuff going on...!!
> 
> now, what do you think Iron Horse?


I'll need to read a little more information from an Emirati's perspective before I'll elaborate, because what I think is irrelevant.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

I actually nicked this from an emirati on a site where emirati's were discussing it. 

As always, there are some pretty extreme (in my opinion) viewpoints. 

There was a underlying theme that they just want the expats out. There seems to be an underlying theme that they are worried that people who have lived here for a long time or people that have been born here and lived here throughout their youth and now as adults, are going to want citizenship. They argue that even though people have lived here a long time, alot of these people still do not know arabic, do not share any of their values and still retain their identity of their home country. I see their point. They want a maximum period of time an expat is allowed to stay. Viewpoints were all over, some extremes like five years only and some wanted it tiered depending on where they are from. GCC can stay longer then westerners or asians. 

Another was the marryingn foreigners thing. They would like to kick out all wives, some would like to kick out even already married, of emirati's that are foreigners. Differing view points, some say that if they are GCC wives, then they can stay. But they all pretty much agreed that they didnt want those kids to grow up with an emirati passport. Now what do you do for women who are GCC citizens who can not give their children their own passport, as the passport follows the males and not the women? 

Another is they want companies to have to hire more emiratis, like 50% or more. Now, how would that work when they make up 800,000 and there are 7.5 million in the uae??? I see their viewpoints. There is no way that in the usa there would be a company that is made up of 1000 people and only be 100 americans working there. No way. I see their point, but I dont see how that is going to work. I guess if they throw out 500,000 expats today, like most of them seem to want to, then that will be much easier to do. 

You can do a search for the emirati local forums. They are not that hard to find. Knowing arabic or having someone who will read to you helps. Translate doesnt work too well. There are a few english forums but not many.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

da-mela said:


> great responses... so what could be the tipping point in uae if it has to happen? too many foreigners, high unemployment for locals, oil income running out (not directly dubai) or just the domino effect of egypt, tunisia and others to follow...


The reason why it'll never happen here is that if the Emiratis do want to protest, they'll just send their servants out with a couple of placards.

High unemployment is caused purely by themselves being greedy. We're trying to hire an Emirati receptionist and have been told that no Emirati will work for less than 25,000 Dhs a month and that's for someone with a token impossible to fail qualification and zero experience.


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

Gavtek said:


> High unemployment is caused purely by themselves being greedy. We're trying to hire an Emirati receptionist and have been told that no Emirati will work for less than 25,000 Dhs a month and that's for someone with a token impossible to fail qualification and zero experience.


It's not because of greed. It's due to the "arrogant entitlement" mentality that too many Emiratis have. I highly doubt a receptionist working for the government makes 25,000, but the qualification and experience you mention would secure them a government job.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Any emirati who has a high school diploma (what you guys call high school, I do not know, the person explained to me in american terms so I would understnad) makes 20,000. If they graduate from a university, then they make 30,000. Round about the amounts. Emiratis seem to want to cease this as they see that it just causes them to be lazy and not work for a career.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Is it possible for an Emirati to fail to graduate from a local university or is it just like the driving licensing system where they'd get a pass even if they crashed into Dubai Mall, took out hundreds of shoppers before coming to a stop in the lake?


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

Gavtek said:


> Is it possible for an Emirati to fail to graduate from a local university or is it just like the driving licensing system where they'd get a pass even if they crashed into Dubai Mall, took out hundreds of shoppers before coming to a stop in the lake?


No to the first - university.

To the second: that would qualify them for a license to drive anything that has anywhere from 1 to 8 wheels.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

Jynxgirl said:


> There was a underlying theme that they just want the expats out. There seems to be an underlying theme that they are worried that people who have lived here for a long time or people that have been born here and lived here throughout their youth and now as adults, are going to want citizenship. They argue that even though people have lived here a long time, alot of these people still do not know arabic, do not share any of their values and still retain their identity of their home country. I see their point. They want a maximum period of time an expat is allowed to stay. Viewpoints were all over, some extremes like five years only and some wanted it tiered depending on where they are from. GCC can stay longer then westerners or asians.


Yes the argument can be made about those long term people wanting citizenship would, but this could easily be solved by stating at the issuance of the work visa that this does not lead to citizenship. This struggle is happening in Germany at the moment where Merkel has stated that multiculturalism is not working. While they can state that people don't speak Arabic even after being the country for many years, part of the problem is that it's not a requirement, it's not spoken in meetings(except between a few during side conversations), and the expats coming in with the expertise don't speak it so therefore some accommodations need to be made if the expertise is required. If language was that big of a deal then maybe the laborers need to speak it too? This is where the slippery slope begins. To say that Arabic is the official language is fine, but then to cut ones nose off to spite ones face is another thing. Then to also state that there is a time limit on the length of a work visa/how long one could be in the country is another slippery slope. They'll be cutting off some possible technological advantage by keeping some expats out. Many of those arguing that the expats don't share their values need to ask themselves if they would change theirs if they were living in another country. The old saying here in the States of taking the boy off the farm, but being unable to take the farm out of the boy holds true.




Jynxgirl said:


> Another was the marryingn foreigners thing. They would like to kick out all wives, some would like to kick out even already married, of emirati's that are foreigners. Differing view points, some say that if they are GCC wives, then they can stay. But they all pretty much agreed that they didnt want those kids to grow up with an emirati passport. Now what do you do for women who are GCC citizens who can not give their children their own passport, as the passport follows the males and not the women?


The bigotry shows with thoughts like kicking those marrying a foreigner out. Those believing kicking some out obviously haven't thought things through very much.



Jynxgirl said:


> Another is they want companies to have to hire more emiratis, like 50% or more. Now, how would that work when they make up 800,000 and there are 7.5 million in the uae??? I see their viewpoints. There is no way that in the usa there would be a company that is made up of 1000 people and only be 100 americans working there. No way. I see their point, but I dont see how that is going to work. I guess if they throw out 500,000 expats today, like most of them seem to want to, then that will be much easier to do.


Another idea that some haven't clearly thought through very much. Of course more should be hired, but when looking at other countries the difference is that those newbies need to start at the bottom and get some experience. Pay ones dues and learn something so that as a manager you can bring that experience into the company one would work for. However, from what I witnessed there were guys in positions making executive decisions when they needed to be in much lower positions, but were the boss because of who they were not because of what they knew or experienced. Maybe if some of the locals at age 16 were pumping fuel it would help with hiring 50 percent within a company. Even in the States some companies have sent their top executives to work on the assembly line, cars to food prep, to understand what their employees do.

However, I still want to read what da-mela and other Emirati's believe, because I can't read Arabic so a search does me no good.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

I highly doubt Da-Mela is Emirati Iron Horse.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

pamela0810 said:


> I highly doubt Da-Mela is Emirati Iron Horse.


The thought did cross my mind, but there isn't enough of a sock(muppet) smell to make that determination so I figured I would keep asking. There is the chance to learn something, which is what I am after. :ranger:


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## Lita_Rulez (Nov 4, 2010)

Lots to say on the subject, but there is one point I need to make straight up :



Iron Horse said:


> Many of those arguing that the expats don't share their values need to ask themselves if they would change theirs if they were living in another country.


This is not the issue. Whether locals moving abroad would blend in any better then foreigner moving here is irrelevant. The issue is, knowing that foreigners coming here DO NOT blend in (and this is not a criticism, this is a fact) do the locals want that many of them staying.

It's a very natural and very sensible issue to ponder, as it is not only a short term population control decision, but a long term society choice.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

The Emiratis are complaining about losing their culture, but I would bet that if we all started wearing dish dashes, speaking Arabic, breeding falcons, racing camels and going to mosques (even though the mosques near me in a neighbourhood with many Emiratis only seem to be used by taxi drivers and gardeners...) they'd soon complain that the ex-pats were stealing their culture.

I would say that they don't want ex-pats integrating with their way of life just as much as they don't want them imposing the ex-pat way of life on the UAE.


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## aaa1966 (Apr 5, 2010)

Gavtek said:


> They don't wash and they eat pigeons?


another ignorant answer


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

aaa1966 said:


> another ignorant answer


Why so ?


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## aaa1966 (Apr 5, 2010)

ccr said:


> Why so ?


what do you think? he summed up a whole nation of 80+ millions as "they dont wash and eat pigeons". if that is not igonrant, what is? if any its also shpowing how arrogant he is. i dont understand why is he still in the UAE either if he so hates it. i m neither an egyptian nor a local if you were wondering, and i like Dubai and i think expats are treated than many places in Europe where they dont make 85% of the population


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

aaa1966 said:


> what do you think? he summed up a whole nation of 80+ millions as "they dont wash and eat pigeons". if that is not igonrant, what is? if any its also shpowing how arrogant he is. i dont understand why is he still in the UAE either if he so hates it. i m neither an egyptian nor a local if you were wondering, and i like Dubai and i think expats are treated than many places in Europe where they dont make 85% of the population


I don't hate it in the UAE, I hate some things about living here, but overall, I'm here because I want to be and will leave as soon as that changes.

It was my understanding that pigeon was an Egyptian delicacy. If that is incorrect, please pardon my ignorance.

Saying Egyptians don't wash was a play on the use of the word 'revolting' for comic effect. Some people got it, you didn't.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

aaa1966 said:


> another ignorant answer


It was a joke based on word play more than anything else.


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

aaa1966 said:


> what do you think? he summed up a whole nation of 80+ millions as "they dont wash and eat pigeons". if that is not igonrant, what is? if any its also shpowing how arrogant he is. i dont understand why is he still in the UAE either if he so hates it. i m neither an egyptian nor a local if you were wondering, and i like Dubai and i think expats are treated than many places in Europe where they dont make 85% of the population


It was a play on words to a post that I put up. Geeez, lighten up. My husband is Egyptian and I saw the humor in it. Then again, hubby may be the exception to the rule as I taught him everything he knows about personal hygiene.  As for the pigeons, I learned that after plucking, the feathers are not part of the stuffing.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

Lita_Rulez said:


> Lots to say on the subject, but there is one point I need to make straight up :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually I believe it is relevant, as the statement made clearly said one aspect of this is about sharing "our values". Those making the accusation need to ask if they would appreciate being a guest in another country and having to live under the same scrutiny they are looking to apply to their guests here. The other issue is the time/duration of stay factor, but these are two independent topics under one issue.


What needs to be defined are: what exactly is the culture there and what is it that the foreigners are doing to change it in a negative way for the locals? I'll state that this isn't so much about culture, but more to do with economics for the local population. The culture aspect is being used to rally the "base" together by having everyone identify with a common ideal.


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## uncommonfavor (May 3, 2009)

Let us be honest, the UAE population imbalance is really a big problem and if it is not addressed now, will hurt the UAE in the future. Having foreigners in a country outnumber the locals by more than 3 to 1 is a real problem. I quite agree with the extract below and I am an expatriate. 

//It noted a fear that long-term expatriates would eventually demand “political rights”, although it did not elaborate on the nature of such demands.

“Definitely this is a potential concern that we need to think about,” said Mr al Suwaidi after the session.//


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

uncommonfavor said:


> Let us be honest, the UAE population imbalance is really a big problem and if it is not addressed now, will hurt the UAE in the future. Having foreigners in a country outnumber the locals by more than 3 to 1 is a real problem. I quite agree with the extract below and I am an expatriate.
> 
> //It noted a fear that long-term expatriates would eventually demand “political rights”, although it did not elaborate on the nature of such demands.
> 
> “Definitely this is a potential concern that we need to think about,” said Mr al Suwaidi after the session.//


Yup, the native americans probably share the sentiment


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

uncommonfavor said:


> Let us be honest, the UAE population imbalance is really a big problem and if it is not addressed now, will hurt the UAE in the future. Having foreigners in a country outnumber the locals by more than 3 to 1 is a real problem. I quite agree with the extract below and I am an expatriate.
> 
> //It noted a fear that long-term expatriates would eventually demand “political rights”, although it did not elaborate on the nature of such demands.
> 
> “Definitely this is a potential concern that we need to think about,” said Mr al Suwaidi after the session.//


I can think of at least a dozen things that will harm the UAE more than a large proportion of foreigners.

I'm interested to know why you think people who are living in any country for a long term period, not just the UAE, shouldn't be allowed to have a say on how that country is run if they weren't born there?


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