# Planning move to spain need advice



## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Hi people this my first post here. This has probably been asked many times before but is there any work for builders in Spain as I'm a qualified builder with 8 years experience and have my own tools. Also what work would be available for my partner who only has business and admin qualification. We will also be taking our dog with us. Is it best to rent or buy(with mortgage) and which areas are best for work. We have started learning the spannish language and will continue too. Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

And also after rent deposit or mortgage deposit paid would in region of €10000 be enough until we find work


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Now isn't a good time! Spain is in crisis and the construction industry has crashed, wait a few years 

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Unemployment is running at 25% in Spain at the moment and 35% on the Costas. You have little chance of work an your partner has less. Sorry for being so blunt, but I have seen the tears of defeat and some sorrowful retreats. If you have work in the UK cherish it, nurture it, love it and come to Spain as often as possible on holidays.


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

I have work here in north east of Scotland. Iv worked with same person since I left school so would always have my job back here if it didn't work out. And the construction industry has been in bad way here before in last 3 years and has never affected me. I see it that there is always work if you are willing to find it. Thanks for you advice


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Seeing as unemployment is so high in Spain would it be worth buying a property at this current time and moving over when there is more work as property values seem to be very low just now and don't think they will keep dropping forever. Iv seen properties for as little as £30000 would be lucky to get a double garage for that up here


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

You need to do your homework and see how bad things are in Spain! The construction industry is dead. Skill and talent mean nothing when there is no work. Go on some fact finding missions and see what you can find


Jo xxx


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Would it be wise to buy a property jus now in Spain and move over in future as iv seen propert value is very cheap at the moment. I know some people see it as a risk due to fact value could drop further but there also the chance the value could rise eventually.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

As i say, Spain is in crisis right now, rules are changing, property prices are falling and the country is facing an uncertain future. Unless you pay into the Spanish system, you won't be eligible for healthcare or any welfare payments. 

If you don't have a proper, contracted job to go to, now is not the time.

Jo xxx


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Would you know what average wage for builder/renderer would be in Spain. I could contact some companies to enquire about work


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Would you know what average wage for builder/renderer is in Spain? I could contact some companies to enquire about work. Iv always been willing to put in the hours. Currently work from 7-6.30 with one 15min brake and one 30 min brake mon-Friday a d 7.30-12 on sat with one 15 min brake. I usually only take 3-4 weeks holiday a year


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I would imagine that there are so many desperate unemployed builders in Spain, that they wouldn't need to employ someone from the uk. And if they were to offer you employment, the pay would be low, irregular and uncontracted! Things are really bad, building companies have gone bust, banks now own millions of half built/new build properties and are in trouble too

Make some fact finding trips and see

Jo xxx


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

billyjames1987 said:


> I have work here in north east of Scotland. Iv worked with same person since I left school so would always have my job back here if it didn't work out. And the construction industry has been in bad way here before in last 3 years and has never affected me. I see it that there is always work if you are willing to find it. Thanks for you advice


Yes, but up here in the NE of Scotland, we've pretty much escaped all the pain of the recession- at least so far - yet construction is still suffering to some extent. You can not be absolutely sure you employer would be able to give you your job back in a couple of years time.

Don't throw up the job and security you are lucky to have just now for almost certain unemployment in Spain. It really is that bad right now. Start planning, save up as much money as possible, take some Spanish classes - get yourself ready for a possible move a few years time, when hopefully things will start to improve - but just don't do it now.

Many Spanish building skills are different to ours - and there is absolutely no work for those with years of experience over there - and the language skills. Plastering/ rendering in particular are different.

You wouldn't qualify for any unemployment benefit when you arrive, and there is no other support such as Tax Credits, Housing Benefit, etc.

The way things are right now in Spain, it just isn't true to say that there is always work for those who are willing - there really isn't at the moment. Many tradesman are advertising their services for as little as 5 euros an hour - and if you tried self employed you have to pay about 250euros a month whether you have earned a penny or not.

I doubt it is a good idea to try to buy property in Spain on a speculative basis right now - and no bank would give you a mortgage.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Do you want people's honest opinions or have you already decided what you want to do?


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

It was our plan but end of day there is no point in us going there and ending up living with no source of income


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

billyjames1987 said:


> It was our plan but end of day there is no point in us going there and ending up living with no source of income


And who would be coming?


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Me, my partner and our dog


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

So get serious. You would have to rent cos you wouldnt get a mortgage. Thats fine, most rent. How would you really go about getting work?? You'd get settled, then go where to look for work?? building sites?? Put adverts up??? You'd need to be self employed, which means you'd have to pay 250€ a month - even if you earn nothing, but paying that would mean that at least you'd have health care should you need it. But then what??? There are too many unemployed builders etc. for you to shine, and also you need to remember that spanish unemployment benefits dont last forever so you really will be against desperate people who will work for next to nothing! But there is hardly any work anyway and even the lucky ones are living from hand to mouth

I'm sorry if this is all negative, but its the reality. But go over, have a fact finding holiday and see how things are. Then you can make an informed choice

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

billyjames1987 said:


> Me, my partner and our dog


So, no kids or older family members?

If it all goes wrong it's only going to effect you 3?

Even so, I have to say that my opinion is the same as the others who have posted on here, and if you take a look at the forum at other people asking the same question they all get the same story.

Basically if you want work and a better life, why would you choose to come to Spain? Especially if you work in construction.

Look at this video - old, but things have actually got a lot worse since it was made.
Made in Germany | Spain: unemployment | Deutsche Welle - Dailymotion-Video.

Look at this article from The Guardian on Friday
Spanish property: Polaris golf resort homes crash to a third of original price | World news | The Guardian
It includes this paragraph
*Good roads complete with zebra crossings built to link homes that have never been constructed, simply stop in the middle of nowhere. Conference centres lie unused on the edge of vacant developments. Stores, restaurants and sports facilities have failed to materialise as the developers have run out of cash. Those who bought "luxury' villas for €1m in the good times would be lucky to get a third for them now – if, that is, they could ever find a buyer happy to tolerate living on an unfinished complex.*

Do you still think it's a good dea to give up a good job in Scotland? This is the kind of situation you'll find in most places in Spain ATM.

However, if you want to take a chance it's up to you. Only you can decide how much risk you are willing to take.

I'm not trying to make you cry into your beer. Maybe another country or another part of the UK?
It looks like they are taking people on in New Zealand. Take a look at this thread especially the article in the last post 
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...you-cant-find-work-spain-try-new-zealand.html


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

I believe about 10-12 euros ph but like the others are saying virtually no building work is going on here at all,everything has stopped.Even the Spanish builders have little or no work at present. Many buildings are sitting half finished and have been abandoned. The only work you could possibly find is renovation projects on properties bought by expats but these would be few and far between and you would not earn a regular wage. The cost of living here in Spain is lower than the UK but if you need work then please don't come over to Spain at present as you would most certainly not be able to support yourself and your family.Hopefully some time in the future things will improve but it may take a long time.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The advice you have been given is sound. There is no work for British non-Spanish-speaking immigrants. 
Being industrious and willing to work hard is irrelevant. Don't you think the almost six million unemployed Spanish people also have these qualities?
Don't take this personally but if I had work of any kind I'd give it to a Spanish unemployed person. Why? Because I live in Spain. Iuse Spanish shops, Spanish tradesmen and employ Spanish gardeners. 
Unlike the UK, there is no generous welfare safety net here. These people should come first, in my opinion.


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## Jumar (Mar 14, 2012)

In the region of Spain where we live (Murcia) some of the Ecuadorian/Bolivian workers are asking Euro 5/6 per hour to do building work. Our neighbours (Spanish) have employed them for many years and know that they do good work and they pay them more (but still only about Euro 8 per hour). This is the reality at the moment.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Apart from the good advice you have been given, why are you assuming that your skills are transferable. I note you come from Scotland, have you ever tried plastering in 40 degrees plus (the Spanish don't do much rendering).? It takes much different skills.


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

All skills are transferable within your trade it's part of being a tradesman. And iv plastered in 27 degrees before it drys fast but being a tradesman we just have to get on with the job and completed it to a high standard. I'd rather be plastering in hot weather than stacking blocks or scaffolding in -5 to -13 degrees which we get in winter. Or having to drive to work when there 4" of snow on the road


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

billyjames1987 said:


> Or having to drive to work when there 4" of snow on the road


Don't move to the Granada region then, or any other area in Spain where there are mountains. 
It snows here too you know and roads can be impassable for days.

But seriously, we used to know several British builders, decorators and plasters, some even legit. But, apart from a couple of guys who are just about able to make ends meet, the rest have gone back to the UK. Not because they didn't like it here, but simply because there is no work for them.

And as for transferable skills. Let's take plastering as an example.
We had our living room plastered by a British worker, skilled in his trade. He did all the necessary preparation to the walls first and his work looked excellent.
But within weeks, the plaster was peeling off the walls.

So, we employed a Spanish builder to put things right.
It turned out that the walls in part of our house are not suitable for the type of plastering carried out in the UK. They are made out of rocks, stones (and whatever else the builders had to hand ). They are porous and give off salt, hence they rejected both PVA and plaster.
The Spanish builder treated our walls as he did every other house he had worked on in our village - with a heavy duty solution usually used on exterior walls. Then came back and painted with exterior paint a few days later.
There was no art in what he did, but it was a problem solved. 

Building and decorating is very different in Spain, especially in old builds, but quite often in new builds as well.
It's a skill learned by experience, rather than transferable.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Don't move to the Granada region then, or any other area in Spain where there are mountains.
> It snows here too you know and roads can be impassable for days.
> 
> But seriously, we used to know several British builders, decorators and plasters, some even legit. But, apart from a couple of guys who are just about able to make ends meet, the rest have gone back to the UK. Not because they didn't like it here, but simply because there is no work for them.
> ...


Even in the UK, there are variations.
We had that problem when we renovated our eighteenth century cottage as our walls were stone. The plaster our local guy put on just fell off.

In the end we sealed the walls and pasted on aluminium foil which is probably not the right thing to do...but it worked.


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

The difference between Scotland and rest of the uk is a lot of our old buildings are made from stones so plastering over old stone buildings is done quite regularly up here


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

And I don't do internal plastering. It's just bricklaying and masonry work I do


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

billyjames1987 said:


> And I don't do internal plastering. It's just bricklaying and masonry work I do


there's nothing being built..............


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

billyjames1987 said:


> And I don't do internal plastering. It's just bricklaying and masonry work I do


Way back in the day (about 4 years ago??), I remember watching some builders building a house. It was (as most houses in Spain) built on an "H" frame. The brick work went up really quickly, it didnt matter about the quality cos it was to be covered. The speed in which it was done was amazing. They literally tied rope around the rickety scaffolding and then swung themselves round with a few bricks and a bucket on a pulley thing - health and safety in the UK would have fainted with shock, not a hard hat or in fact a plumb line in sight. As the building got higher, they even pullied the cement mixer up to the first floor. These guys werent Spanish, I think they were Polish. It was the house next door to the one we lived in and TBH they were a bit of a nuisance, cos my rather attractive older daughters were staying with their rather attractive friends and these men would swing on these bits of rope making comments and staring at the girls! 

On a more useful note, I have a friend whose husband is a builder and has lived in Spain for 15+ years, he used to have a building company and was known to be excellent. I've just spoken to her and her husband now commutes to the UK cos there is no work. now he was a good builder and in the past made a lot of money. 

If you're going to try this, then just dont burn your UK bridges and I believe that this new law has now come into affect whereby you will need to prove to the Spanish authorities that you have a good enough income to survive before they will allow you to become a resident. So try to line up something with a contract before you move over - heres a bit about it http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ng-spain/113854-minimum-income-residency.html

Jo xxx


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Health and safety can be a pest in the uk but they only really get involved on big sites. Iv had to do some rediculous stuff in past but not anymore. On average it would take me and person i work with 5 days to build average 3 bed house but can vary depending on the aquardness of the front of house.Considering what people saying I reckon I'll just stay up here for couple years and see how things go over in Spain. Money has never really been a big factor to me. I'd be happy living in nice place and earning enought to get by than live somewhere I don't like and make good money. But anyway best of luck to everyone in Spain am sure things will improve hopefully sooner rather than later


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

billyjames1987 said:


> Health and safety can be a pest in the uk but they only really get involved on big sites. Iv had to do some rediculous stuff in past but not anymore. On average it would take me and person i work with 5 days to build average 3 bed house but can vary depending on the aquardness of the front of house.Considering what people saying I reckon I'll just stay up here for couple years and see how things go over in Spain. Money has never really been a big factor to me. I'd be happy living in nice place and earning enought to get by than live somewhere I don't like and make good money. But anyway best of luck to everyone in Spain am sure things will improve hopefully sooner rather than later



We dont mean to be horrible, but that old myth of being able to move to Spain and "live the dream" is no longer the case. Its a harsh country now and its in a severe economic crisis

Jo xxx


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Britain went throught a 2 year stage when there wasn't much New builds going up so I had to spend that time doing private jobs but things have started to pick up here now and in fact I'd say north east Scotland has plenty of construction work available. There is more and more large construction sites starting all the time again so hopefully Spain can bounce back soon. Up here we get £1 to build a 4" concrete block and I think it's 30p to build a facing brick but not 100% sure as don't see much brick up here. Is usually blocks and stones


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

billyjames1987 said:


> Health and safety can be a pest in the uk but they only really get involved on big sites. Iv had to do some rediculous stuff in past but not anymore. On average it would take me and person i work with 5 days to build average 3 bed house but can vary depending on the aquardness of the front of house.Considering what people saying I reckon I'll just stay up here for couple years and see how things go over in Spain. Money has never really been a big factor to me. I'd be happy living in nice place and earning enought to get by than live somewhere I don't like and make good money. But anyway best of luck to everyone in Spain am sure things will improve hopefully sooner rather than later


Thanks Billy.
And I hope you are right.....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Billy, even if the construction industry did pick up again, is your Spanish good enough to take instructions from clients, converse with the site foreman (who might speak in an accent even fluent Spanish-speakers don´t understand), read the instructions on products, deal with builders' merchants, etc?

A lot of people assume Spain is an English-speaking country. British people might get by with very little Spanish when ordering a beer or going round the supermarket, but working on a building site is a whole different matter.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

As someone who owns a ferreteria I can tell you that people who would normally call in a builder. odd job man are now doing their own repairs when they can.


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Billy, even if the construction industry did pick up again, is your Spanish good enough to take instructions from clients, converse with the site foreman (who might speak in an accent even fluent Spanish-speakers don´t understand), read the instructions on products, deal with builders' merchants, etc?
> 
> A lot of people assume Spain is an English-speaking country. British people might get by with very little Spanish when ordering a beer or going round the supermarket, but working on a building site is a whole different matter.


I was never planning on moving straight away. I know Spain is a Spanish speaking country and I would respect that and pay a tutor to teach me before I came over. And In Scotland we have many Russians, polish and other eastern Europeans in construction that don't speak any English but they still get job done


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Don't even consider buying, prices dropped about 30% and are predicted to do the same again. There are tens of thousands of houses people just cannot sell.

Billy, there is just no work mate. Stay where you are, enjoy holidays in the sun. It's fine saying you are not bothered about money but there is no money.

Take off the rose tinted glasses chap. The last I read said recovery in Spain is unlikely before 2020 at the earliest.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

billyjames1987 said:


> Health and safety can be a pest in the uk but they only really get involved on big sites. Iv had to do some rediculous stuff in past but not anymore. On average it would take me and person i work with 5 days to build average 3 bed house but can vary depending on the aquardness of the front of house.Consid*ering what people saying I reckon I'll just stay up here for couple years and see how things go over in Spain*. Money has never really been a big factor to me. I'd be happy living in nice place and earning enought to get by than live somewhere I don't like and make good money. But anyway best of luck to everyone in Spain am sure things will improve hopefully sooner rather than later


Very sensible 

But I'm afraid that in the short to medium term things can only get worse here and any real improvement could be at least ten years away.


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## Merseybob (Mar 4, 2010)

billyjames1987 said:


> All skills are transferable within your trade it's part of being a tradesman. And iv plastered in 27 degrees before it drys fast but being a tradesman we just have to get on with the job and completed it to a high standard. I'd rather be plastering in hot weather than stacking blocks or scaffolding in -5 to -13 degrees which we get in winter. Or having to drive to work when there 4" of snow on the road


But I bet you haven't tried using Yeso!? It's "B" to use as any Brit in spain who has used it will tell you.


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## billyjames1987 (May 27, 2012)

Looked peso up it is plaster. I'm not a plaster or taper I'm a bricklayer


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Come on Billy, you came to this forum asking for advice and you're blasting everyone who has tried to help you. No one has suggested that you are anything but a first class, hard working tradesman..... but they are just trying to tell you that there is practically no construction work for anyone in Spain at the moment.

You're the one who said you plastered, rendered and had transferrable skills.

Well, I guess you just mean you do a bit of harling (roughcast) - already you are showing you would have indeed have to transfer your skills.

Houses in Spain don't tend to be harled externally, or plasterboarded and taped internally. They are plastered, with different mixes to ours - and you would have to do that as well as just building.

Well, you would have to do that,.....clean pools, cut grass, sweep up - anything you can find really to have half a chance of surviving at the moment.

Take advice in the spirit it's given -remember it's given freely by people who have nothing to gain from helping strangers such as yourself and no possible reason to feed you a bum steer. Everyone would be delighted if you came back to the forum, in a few months, to say you'd emailed some builders and now had a full time, contracted job but it's just so unlikely at the moment.

Save up, learn the language, go on holiday (study tradesman, if you can find any working), then see if things have improved in a year or two. Alternatively look elsewhere - ther's a lot of new construction in New Zealand - if you can live with the continuing aftershocks.

PS. take that Spanish holiday in winter, go inland a bit where you'll find £30,000 uninsulated, unheated houses and you'll see snow and feel just how cold it can be to live there. Granted it heats up in summer - while we're still at max 10' in June!


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