# Is it necessary to get a permanent resident card for UK citizens??



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

Hello, everybody!

My husband and my son are British and live in spain more than 5 years. They both have a resident certificate mentioned "residencia en espana desde 19/12/2013." But it has no expiry date.

Since Brexit, I wonder whether they need to get a permanent resident certificate. My husband does not care that much and believes he does not have to bother. 

I went to Elche today and the police said I should go to Alicante and also mentioned they need the statement from the bank and health insurance. I am confused. I believe these docs are for the first time to apply residencia. If you live in Spain for six years, you certainly do not need them.

I got my permanent resident card in May this year and I was not requested for these documents.

Can anybody give me any advice or should we just want what happen about the Brexit??


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Well, it seems to depend where you are. Ours were obtained in 2008, have no expiry date and don't include the word "permanente". But a friend who enquired at the Extranjera in Algeciras was told there was no need to change it. 

This seems to be in line with the Spanish government's advice in their recent decree on Brexit. You just have to have some sort of certificate, or card, to show that you were resident prior to the date Britain leaves the EU at the end of the transition period.



> ... the registration certificates (the green certificate) and ID cards of family members of the EU citizen obtained before the end of the transition period will subsequently serve to accredit their legal residence in Spain and benefit from the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement. However, during the transition period you may request the issue of a Foreigner Identity Card that explicitly mentions your condition as beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement.
> 
> *Having a registration certificate in force is a guarantee of your rights as resident in Spain*.


And if there is no withdrawal agreement;



> Registration certificates (the green certificate) and the cards of family members of an EU citizen will serve as proof of their legal residence in Spain for a period of 21 months after the UK's withdrawal from the EU without an agreement and until they obtain the TIE.


https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx

Since some people like yourself are being treated as new applicants when they try to change, I personally am not going to go there! I have plenty of proof that I've been here 12 years, including a full set of tax returns, should it come to it.


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Well, it seems to depend where you are. Ours were obtained in 2008, have no expiry date and don't include the word "permanente". But a friend who enquired at the Extranjera in Algeciras was told there was no need to change it.
> 
> This seems to be in line with the Spanish government's advice in their recent decree on Brexit. You just have to have some sort of certificate, or card, to show that you were resident prior to the date Britain leaves the EU at the end of the transition period.
> 
> ...



Maybe you are right and I should not worry too much! I will print the above documents and file them as a proof.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Luna112 said:


> Maybe you are right and I should not worry too much! I will print the above documents and file them as a proof.


Better to keep the page bookmarked on your computer as it is updated regularly.


----------



## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

A couple of friends applied for a replacement "residencia" because another friend told them they had to apply for one that said "permanente", and they were asked to prove income and health insurance in the Cádiz area 

Davexf


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> A couple of friends applied for a replacement "residencia" because another friend told them they had to apply for one that said "permanente", and they were asked to prove income and health insurance in the Cádiz area
> 
> Davexf




Clearly a can of worms best not opened!


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> A couple of friends applied for a replacement "residencia" because another friend told them they had to apply for one that said "permanente", and they were asked to prove income and health insurance in the Cádiz area
> 
> Davexf


It does not sound right. Here is the info from Spanish website. As long as you live here more than 5 years, the condition is met.

I applied my own permanent resident card as a family member of a eu citizen and was not asked for these docs just a few months ago because I already live here 5 years.

Maybe it is better to wait what happend to Brexit!



Residencia de carácter permanente
Son titulares del derecho a residir con carácter permanente los ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de un Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo, y los miembros de la familia que no sean nacionales de uno de dichos Estados, que hayan residido legalmente en España durante un período continuado de cinco años.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

According to the immigration laws, the requirements to register as an EU citizen resident in Spain are not only requirement for the obtention of the certificate, you are required to continue to meet these requirements during your entire residency. It's like an MOT / ITV of a car, you can't just pass it then ignore the defects. So it makes sense that they check you are compliant at every opportunity you offer them.

That said, when I went to change the address on mine and my kids' certificates, they changed my kids' ones to "permanent" there and then without any documentation being required other that the "libro de familia" to prove that they were my kids and a certificate of empadronamiento as proof of the new address. I did tick the box to give consent to access my social security record though, so maybe they checked I was working.


----------



## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

For sure at least some Extranjerias insist one must change the first green cert after five years so that it shows ‘permanente’ 

Whether that is a 100% legal requirement it would seem that by doing so one does not loose anything. Whereas no doing so one might

At the worst, all one needs to prove is that they are working here or if retired one still has at least the equivalent to a U.K. OAP and has medical cover, so the social security card. (Plus of course an EX18, proof of payment of the fee, original and copy PP and the green card)

This might help 

TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE POLICE FOR NIE, E.U. Citizen registration, etc.

As you go through you will find links to the application forms and the payment, at any bank, form 

.• GO TO https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplus/ 

• PROVINCES AVAILABLE: CHOOSE the province where your are living/ staying 

• SECTIONS AVAILABLE IN PROVINCE: OPEN PAGE AND SELECT SECTION REQUIRED

e.g. “policía certificado de residente o no residente” (that includes NIE application)
NOTE there is now a special section for UK citizens which must be chosen that is “Polica-Certificada EU (Exclusivamente para Reina Unido)

• ENTER THE DETAILS OF APPLICANT. if you have an NIE show that, if not then show your passport number 

• CHOOSE NATIONAL POLICE STATION FOR APPOINTMENT: The one that covers the area where you live 
Motivo o tipo de solicitud de la cita, show reason for requesting appointment

• CHOOSE AN APPOINTMENT, AND THEN CONFIRM. If the office you require us not shown that means there are no appointments available at the moment so please try again later 

• You must PRINT A COPY OF THE APPOINTMENT, and take it with you to the police station
You can find info here in english about completing the EX15


http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consul...E 2018 - TRANSLATED NIE FORM 2018 - GUIDE.pdf


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

It has been said before that you automatically become permanent residents after having been resident in Spain for 5 years. Under normal circumstances, for UK citizens, you would not need to get a new card withe word permanent on it.
However, these are not normal times with the threat of UK leaving the EU. If that happens all UK residents in Spain will have to obtain a TIE, a photo ID similar to the Spanish citizens DNI card. It has been said lots of times that if you do have a card with the word permanent on it you will get a straight swap for a TIE when the time comes. If you do not, however, you may have to jump through all the usual hoops, with potentially a higher income requirement.
So, IMHO, it is worth jumping through the hoops now, with the lower income requirement, in order to get the permanent card.


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> It has been said before that you automatically become permanent residents after having been resident in Spain for 5 years. Under normal circumstances, for UK citizens, you would not need to get a new card withe word permanent on it.
> However, these are not normal times with the threat of UK leaving the EU. If that happens all UK residents in Spain will have to obtain a TIE, a photo ID similar to the Spanish citizens DNI card. It has been said lots of times that if you do have a card with the word permanent on it you will get a straight swap for a TIE when the time comes. If you do not, however, you may have to jump through all the usual hoops, with potentially a higher income requirement.
> So, IMHO, it is worth jumping through the hoops now, with the lower income requirement, in order to get the permanent card.




It is better to wait and get in the future. I do not speak much spanish but manged to talk to the man in the policia in Elche. He also mentioned I need a document from my son's school and confirm he studies in Spain. I did take the school reports for every year, but he said that is no good. I think it is just too much trouble. Even there is a no deal Brexit, all the British citizens here have 21 months to sort out the TIE. By then, the requirements will be different. The worst is to put more money into a spanish bank and get health insurance if they are not employed or self employed by then.

It is more straight for a non eu citizen to get permant resident here because they will scan my passport every time I am in/out Spain. As long as I live here five years, the condition was met. (Some non eu citizens left Spain too long for example, one year, they will be refused to enter even thought they hold a resident card for five year or the renew of resident card will be refused!.)However, for a eu citizen, there is no passport control in the airport. They may need more documents to prove they actually live in Spain.


----------



## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Steve to my knowledge at least some Extranjerias have been demanding ‘renewal’ of the green cert., to make it permanent, for at least 8 years in respect of all EU nationals living in spain 

So in that office at least, no connection with Brexit


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

Juan C said:


> Steve to my knowledge at least some Extranjerias have been demanding ‘renewal’ of the green cert., to make it permanent, for at least 8 years in respect of all EU nationals living in spain
> 
> So in that office at least, no connection with Brexit


It sounds every office is different!


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Luna112 said:


> It is better to wait and get in the future. I do not speak much spanish but manged to talk to the man in the policia in Elche. He also mentioned I need a document from my son's school and confirm he studies in Spain. I did take the school reports for every year, but he said that is no good. I think it is just too much trouble. Even there is a no deal Brexit, all the British citizens here have 21 months to sort out the TIE. By then, the requirements will be different. The worst is to put more money into a spanish bank and get health insurance if they are not employed or self employed by then.


To wait may be fine for non EU citizens, but I am specifically talking about UK citizens who will be treated as non EU citizens post Brexit. If the Non EU income requirements to obtain a TIE are enforced, I do not believe that a UK couple with only the basic UK old age pension will meet this requirement .


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> To wait may be fine for non EU citizens, but I am specifically talking about UK citizens who will be treated as non EU citizens post Brexit. If the Non EU income requirements to obtain a TIE are enforced, I do not believe that a UK couple with only the basic UK old age pension will meet this requirement .


2.3.2. How do I obtain the TIE?

To obtain the TIE after the withdrawal you can use the new procedure established for this purpose through the "procedure for documentation of EU nationals", presenting the application in person or via your representative, at the migration office of the province in which you live, or by electronic means.

Among other requirements, you must prove that you were a resident in Spain before the withdrawal date (for example, through your certificate of registration with the local authorities, rental contract, ownership of property, employment contract, enrolment at a study centre).

The procedures are as follows:

One: apply for the temporary residence and work permit for a UK national at the migration office of the province where you live ("procedure for the documentation of UK nationals"). You may apply for it in person at the office (yourself, or via a representative) after obtaining an appointment. You may also apply online.
Two: once the authorisation has been granted, you must request the TIE at the corresponding police station. This procedure must be done by you in person.
Regardless of this ad-hoc procedure you may request any of the authorisations and permits under the migration legislation if you comply with the requirements in each case.

2.3.3. How long does it take to get a TIE?

The period required to resolve the authorisation is three months. After this, you must apply for the TIE within a month of notification.

2.4 Information on the documentation:

2.4.1. Do the documents required have to be originals or copies (certified)?

The documents must be original.

If you apply for the authorisation online (this procedure will be available for people who do not have a registration certificate) you must submit copies of it. You are reminded that to apply online you must have an electronic signature.

Any official documents required must be translated and notarised if necessary.

2.4.2. Do I have to provide proof of income?

Proof of sufficient income will only be required if you do not have a registration certificate and do not engage in a professional or employment activity in Spain.


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Luna112 said:


> 2.4.2. Do I have to provide proof of income?
> 
> Proof of sufficient income will only be required if you do not have a registration certificate and do not engage in a professional or employment activity in Spain.


Retired persons and pensioners will have no employment activity in Spain.


----------



## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

If Brexit happens, and there is no agreement which affords special status to brits, then the law which currently applies to non EU nationals will apply, to newly arrived brits 

Those who have resided legally for five years will have the right to remain, albeit they almost certainly will require a TIE, a RESIDENCIA CERT. 

My wife is non EU she has permanent residence status in spain, having lived here more than five years Brits, as non EU nationals will be in that position


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> Retired persons and pensioners will have no employment activity in Spain.


But if they already have a certificate of resident(it does not have to be a permanent resident certificate), then there is no need to prove income.


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Luna112 said:


> But if they already have a certificate of resident(it does not have to be a permanent resident certificate), then there is no need to prove income.


I am sorry Luna112 but you are not giving sound advice, based only on your own personal circumstances.
I am a permanent resident and have the card to prove it. I got the card after I had been resident for more than 5 years and I needed to change the card as I had moved house and the old address was on the original residence card.
My extranjería insisted on my prove of healthcare and several proofs of income, including bank statements stamped by the bank.
This was a lot of trouble and stress as I, like you, thought that it was unnecessary. If you think that when it comes to applying for a TIE it will be straightforward then I fear you are sadly mistaken.
Given that UK citizens still have the opportunity to get their permanent residency cards before Brexit happens, I would urge that they do so, even if they are convinced that there is need to.
Again this advice is only my own humble opinion.


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> I am sorry Luna112 but you are not giving sound advice, based only on your own personal circumstances.
> I am a permanent resident and have the card to prove it. I got the card after I had been resident for more than 5 years and I needed to change the card as I had moved house and the old address was on the original residence card.
> My extranjería insisted on my prove of healthcare and several proofs of income, including bank statements stamped by the bank.
> This was a lot of trouble and stress as I, like you, thought that it was unnecessary. If you think that when it comes to applying for a TIE it will be straightforward then I fear you are sadly mistaken.
> ...


Thanks but is my husband's problem and he does not care at all. I cannot persuade him. I just wait and see!


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Luna112 said:


> But if they already have a certificate of resident(it does not have to be a permanent resident certificate), then there is no need to prove income.





stevesainty said:


> I am sorry Luna112 but you are not giving sound advice, based only on your own personal circumstances.
> I am a permanent resident and have the card to prove it. I got the card after I had been resident for more than 5 years and I needed to change the card as I had moved house and the old address was on the original residence card.
> My extranjería insisted on my prove of healthcare and several proofs of income, including bank statements stamped by the bank.
> This was a lot of trouble and stress as I, like you, thought that it was unnecessary. If you think that when it comes to applying for a TIE it will be straightforward then I fear you are sadly mistaken.
> ...


My experience and my opinion as well, and exactly what the officer said when we got our permanent card in September


----------



## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

stevesainty said:


> I am sorry Luna112 but you are not giving sound advice, based only on your own personal circumstances.
> I am a permanent resident and have the card to prove it. I got the card after I had been resident for more than 5 years and I needed to change the card as I had moved house and the old address was on the original residence card.
> My extranjería insisted on my prove of healthcare and several proofs of income, including bank statements stamped by the bank.
> *This was a lot of trouble and stress as I, like you, thought that it was unnecessary. If you think that when it comes to applying for a TIE it will be straightforward then I fear you are sadly mistaken*.
> ...


From experience I don't think getting the T.I.E after Brexit will be simple whatever your residency cert/card says on it...permanent or not. I think that Spain will insist that we all basically reapply again under the NON E.U rules and regulations which will include the far stricter financials. Why would Spain make any exceptions for Brits? Just my opinion at this time so no I don't have a link.


----------



## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Bob. As I said before, brits with five years legal resident status, just as non EU nationals, have permanent residence rights. 

Only new U.K. nationals will probably be required to comply with the existing rules for non EU national. Só income 27,000 euros a year etc


----------



## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Juan C said:


> Bob. As I said before, brits with five years legal resident status, just as non EU nationals, have permanent residence rights.
> 
> Only new U.K. nationals will probably be required to comply with the existing rules for non EU national. Só income 27,000 euros a year etc


And as you've been told before different officinas ask for different things i.e in Megsmums recent case. Different financials being asked for at different regions is common place. I just see it that as there is clearly a *set* financial figure in force for NON E.U citizens that post Brexit there is a very good chance we will all be required to adhere to it regardless of status when applying for the T.I.E.


----------



## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Bob, not that it clarifies anything, there are clear minimum income amounts for eu nationals applying for resident status too. 

The Extranjerias have the government’s figures for that. 

It is the amount, above which a Spanish National cannot claim income assistance allowance. It is less than the standard U.K. OAP .


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

blondebob said:


> And as you've been told before different officinas ask for different things i.e in Megsmums recent case. Different financials being asked for at different regions is common place. I just see it that as there is clearly a *set* financial figure in force for NON E.U citizens that post Brexit there is a very good chance we will all be required to adhere to it regardless of status when applying for the T.I.E.


Plent of Spanish people work in UK, there is agreement between UK and Spain. Even a lot of Chinese here in Spain can get permanent residents after 5 years legally resident without income or health insurance proof. I cannot see why Spanish government has to be tough with British!

hehe. The best thing is to save 27000 euros in the bank in the next 2 year!

We just change our bank which is Sabadell and we used for five years. They charged too much commssion and our marriage certificate is in Chinese. Every time, we need to get it translated and legalized in China and it costs more than 300 pounds! Spanish immigration office only accepted it less tan 90 days old!

So in my own situation, I will wait and see. By the time, I can do everything the same time！


----------



## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Juan C said:


> Bob, not that it clarifies anything, there are clear minimum income amounts for eu nationals applying for resident status too.
> 
> *The Extranjerias have the government’s figures for that. *
> 
> .


So in that case why do they differ from office to office? Are these "clear minimum income amounts" you say exist available online like the NON E.U figures are?


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

blondebob said:


> So in that case why do they differ from office to office? Are these "clear minimum income amounts" you say exist available online like the NON E.U figures are?


It does seem to be pretty discretionary. Maybe they can impose higher amounts in areas where the cost of living is higher?


----------



## 1kaipa (Jul 20, 2019)

If the financial requirements were to be the non eu ones then there would be no sense in talking about the need to make a distinction between those already resident and those many post Brexit applications. The Spanish and British gov have made it clear that those persons legally registered will have a right to remain although that will need to be officially done and will be assessed on the pre Brexit requirements. All other applications will be as non EU. This was published on the Moncloa site to communicate the situation if a no deal scenario occurs


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> It does seem to be pretty discretionary. Maybe they can impose higher amounts in areas where the cost of living is higher?


For a non eu citizen,27000 euros in a spanish bank can give them rights to live in Spain,but they have to buy private health insurance and cannot work in Spain. One family of 3 will need around 37000 euros in the bank. I know some Chinese have this kind of resident permit. After 5 years, they can get permanent resident and work here and no need to put so much money in the bank.

This will apply to UK citizens who come after Brexit no deal. But for those already settle down and have a resident certificate here, I am sure it does not apply!


----------



## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

1kaipa said:


> If the financial requirements were to be the non eu ones then there would be no sense in talking about the need to make a distinction between those already resident and those many post Brexit applications. The Spanish and British gov have made it clear that those persons legally registered will have a right to remain although that will need to be officially done and will be assessed on the pre Brexit requirements. All other applications will be as non EU. *This was published on the Moncloa site to communicate the situation if a no deal scenario occurs*


Universal Health Care for ALL was also published on a great many sites a while back......we all know how that worked out. I don't believe a thing until it actually happens. If you really think that a swap from your current residencia permanante to a T.I.E will be a simple swap as was quoted on many sites then I'd love to possess your level of optimism.


----------



## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Luna112 said:


> *Plent of Spanish people work in UK, there is agreement between UK and Spain*. Even a lot of Chinese here in Spain can get permanent residents after 5 years legally resident without income or health insurance proof. I cannot see why Spanish government has to be tough with British!
> 
> hehe. The best thing is to save 27000 euros in the bank in the next 2 year!
> 
> ...


No there is not an agreement between UK and Spain, it is an EU wide agreement and it is called Freedom of Movement which will cease after brexit. I'm not going to trawl through all the threads and posts but there have been several posters here that have been to their local oficina extranjera and have been told that they need x amount of money to apply for permanent status which in some cases has exceeded by a few thousand euros the minimum income required of EU citizens. If your husband wishes to stick his head in the sand and do nothing do not be surprised if the minimum income required for your family to continue to reside in Spain is far higher than is the case at the moment.
As others have said different offices, different towns and different regions interpret and apply the rules how they see fit.


----------



## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Bob. The police do have the government info re minimum incomes. It is the same info provided by the ministry and applies to all extranjerías, so does not vary from office to office. There maybe some variation caused by local understanding. I have a note which I made earlier this year from that official info

This might help you 

https://www.latribunadeciudadreal.e...nimo-de-solidaridad-sube-hasta-los-6300-euros


----------



## Luna112 (Dec 10, 2014)

Tigerlillie said:


> No there is not an agreement between UK and Spain, it is an EU wide agreement and it is called Freedom of Movement which will cease after brexit. I'm not going to trawl through all the threads and posts but there have been several posters here that have been to their local oficina extranjera and have been told that they need x amount of money to apply for permanent status which in some cases has exceeded by a few thousand euros the minimum income required of EU citizens. If your husband wishes to stick his head in the sand and do nothing do not be surprised if the minimum income required for your family to continue to reside in Spain is far higher than is the case at the moment.
> As others have said different offices, different towns and different regions interpret and apply the rules how they see fit.


My husband did ask the policia in my town and they said it is no need to change the current resident certificate.

But when I enquired with Elche policia about getting a permanent resident certificate, they asked a lot of more documents. Fancy ask my son's school letter even though I brought school report this year！ We felt we are getting ourselves too much trouble. Anyway, we do have tax returns every year around 24000 euros together. Surely, it will be enough one day if we all have to reapply our resident cards. 

My son is only 11 years old and he insists not have a permanent resident card. He thought he would have to stay in Spain forever and cannot travel or work any where!:juggle:


----------



## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Juan C said:


> Bob. The police do have the government info re minimum incomes. It is the same info provided by the ministry and applies to all extranjerías,* so does not vary from office to office*. There maybe some variation caused by local understanding. I have a note which I made earlier this year from that official info
> 
> This might help you
> 
> https://www.latribunadeciudadreal.e...nimo-de-solidaridad-sube-hasta-los-6300-euros


Sorry but it most definitely varies from office to office. There have been a great many instances documented both on this and other forums.


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Below are links to two official web sites (EU and the Spanish ministry of the interior) that I am sure members will find of interest: 
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...s-permanent-residence/index_en.htm#shortcut-1
and
Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior

Another non-official web site that I am not allowed to link to provides its members with a detailed guide to applying for the TIE after Brexit. It says there are four groups of circumstances and this is Group 1: "Those with residency certificates that state they are permanent residents, ´residente comunitario con carácter permanente desde ….´. This certificate will sufficiently accredit a legal and continuous residency of 5 years or more and will entitle you to the TIE for non EU citizens that accredits ´residencia de larga duración´without the need to apply for residency authorisation first.

You’ll need to apply for your TIE personally with the Policia Nacional, but all you need to supply will be: passport, proof of payment of the administrative fee ´tasa´ and a photograph.
The same applies for a non EU family member of a permanent UK resident who also has a permanent residency card."


----------



## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

The Skipper said:


> Below are links to two official web sites (EU and the Spanish ministry of the interior) that I am sure members will find of interest:
> https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...s-permanent-residence/index_en.htm#shortcut-1
> and
> Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior
> ...


Although these websites can be a mine of information I find it's generally not very helpful to either quote or wave official documents at funcionarios.

As has been pointed out by others YMMV with regard to different offices, towns or regions, one persons experience may not necessarily be the same as someone else's.

I do sympathise with people because it is the same here in France, the different offices (and sometimes different fonctionnaires in the same office) all operate differently and interpret the rules in their own way which can be maddening.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

blondebob said:


> So in that case why do they differ from office to office? Are these "clear minimum income amounts" you say exist available online like the NON E.U figures are?





Juan C said:


> Bob. The police do have the government info re minimum incomes. It is the same info provided by the ministry and applies to all extranjerías, so does not vary from office to office. There maybe some variation caused by local understanding. I have a note which I made earlier this year from that official info
> 
> This might help you
> 
> https://www.latribunadeciudadreal.e...nimo-de-solidaridad-sube-hasta-los-6300-euros



It does vary from office to office, as we were told. In our area it’s 13kpppa




> My husband did ask the policia in my town and they said it is no need to change the current resident certificate.
> 
> But when I enquired with Elche policia about getting a permanent resident certificate, they asked a lot of more documents. Fancy ask my son's school letter even though I brought school report this year！ We felt we are getting ourselves too much trouble. Anyway, we do have tax returns every year around 24000 euros together. Surely, it will be enough one day if we all have to reapply our resident cards.
> 
> ...


----------

