# Italian rules on non-EU spouses of non-Italian EU nationals. What does Italy require?



## plawre

We are moving to Reggio Emilia in August. what are the requirements and what is the process for granting residence to the spouse of a non-Italian EU national and the EU national?
My wife is French and I am US citizen and we reside currently in NY. We are on moving to Italy In August, and I want to know how and what are the procedures for making us both legal to live and work in Reggio nell' Emilia.
Thanks for any and all input...help!!!


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## adw

I am in a similar situation, though we are already here (northern Tuscany); I'm English and my wife is Australian. So I look forward a lot to more knowledgeable replies, as we are struggling with this process right now.
It is clear that in theory the non-EU spouse is accepted, but getting the right paper for her to work, and for her to stay if/when I, for instance, die, is trickier.
So far I have got an identity card. That took time as *our* registrar here decided he couldn't accept the application to register as resident because our house did not have a number, so we had to go through a process to get one. Anyway, I've been working on filling in the "yellow kit", but for that I seem to need a codice fiscale (which I have - that's easy), a VAT registration (IVA - which I have, but apparently it might be wrong) and an INPS number (which I haven't yet managed to get, though I have a commerzialista on the job).
So in short, your wife just is legal here anyway, and does not need any special papers, except for registering as resident in due course. You should have no problem - the principle is recognised. But you should press on with the process of getting these papers for the sake of getting a secure position.
But as I said, I'm no expert - I look forward to reading more answers!


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## Arturo.c

plawre said:


> We are moving to Reggio Emilia in August. what are the requirements and what is the process for granting residence to the spouse of a non-Italian EU national and the EU national?
> My wife is French and I am US citizen and we reside currently in NY. We are on moving to Italy In August, and I want to know how and what are the procedures for making us both legal to live and work in Reggio nell' Emilia.
> Thanks for any and all input...help!!!


Ok, this is going to be a bit complicated, so I'll try to be concise.

1. As an EU citizen, your wife doesn't need any paperwork to move to Italy. Once she rents or buys a place, all she will have to do is go to the City Hall of the place where she is settling with the property deed or the rental contract, look for the "Ufficio Anagrafe" and apply to get registered as a resident. Within a couple of weeks a city employee (or police officer) will knock at her door to check if she is really living there, and once his report is filed she will have a registered address in Italy which, together with a "codice fiscale", is the basis to do any kind of transaction (get health care coverage, driving license, register a car, etc.).

2. For you things are a bit more complex, because you should get an appointment at the Visa section of the Consulate-General of Italy in NY, which is always pretty backed up, and bring your passport, your marriage certificate and your wife (with her passport as well) to apply for a "Visto di ingresso per ricongiungimento familiare". That is the kind of entry visa you should get in order to be able to apply for a "permesso di soggiorno" once you will be in Italy (you can't do it if you enter Italy as a tourist). Check this website in order to get an idea about the various kinds of entry visas issued by Italian consular offices abroad.

3. Once you got your entry visa for Italy and actually get there, you have to visit the local police office (Questura or Commissariato di Polizia) within 8 days of your arrival. Then you will have to get the "kit" to apply for your "permesso di soggiorno". The application can be made either through the Post Office by registered mail, or through some local grassroots associations called "Enti di patronato" (some staffed by foreigners already living in Italy) which will help you fill in the cumbersome forms that are part of your "kit" and file the application by computer directly from their offices, in return of a membership fee.

4. After you have applied and have either the receipt from the Post Office or from the "patronato" proving that your application is being processed, you can go to the City Hall (see step 1) and apply to register yourself as a live-in family member (familiare convivente) of your wife at the same address where she lives. Should there be no problems you will get registered and in due time (weeks, or more likely months) you will get a call from the Polizia informing you that your "permesso di soggiorno" is ready for collection. And voilà, you are a legal resident!


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## arran29

*US spouse wants to work in Italy*



Arturo.c said:


> Ok, this is going to be a bit complicated, so I'll try to be concise.
> 
> 1. As an EU citizen, your wife doesn't need any paperwork to move to Italy. Once she rents or buys a place, all she will have to do is go to the City Hall of the place where she is settling with the property deed or the rental contract, look for the "Ufficio Anagrafe" and apply to get registered as a resident. Within a couple of weeks a city employee (or police officer) will knock at her door to check if she is really living there, and once his report is filed she will have a registered address in Italy which, together with a "codice fiscale", is the basis to do any kind of transaction (get health care coverage, driving license, register a car, etc.).
> 
> 2. For you things are a bit more complex, because you should get an appointment at the Visa section of th which is always pretty backed up, and bring your passport, your marriage certificate and your wife (with her passport as well) to apply for a "Visto di ingresso per ricongiungimento familiare". That is the kind of entry visa you should get in order to be able to apply for a "permesso di soggiorno" once you will be in Italy (you can't do it if you enter Italy as a tourist).
> 
> 3. Once you got your entry visa for Italy and actually get there, you have to visit the local police office (Questura or Commissariato di Polizia) within 8 days of your arrival. Then you will have to get the "kit" to apply for your "permesso di soggiorno". The application can be made either through the Post Office by registered mail, or through some local grassroots associations called "Enti di patronato" (some staffed by foreigners already living in Italy) which will help you fill in the cumbersome forms that are part of your "kit" and file the application by computer directly from their offices, in return of a membership fee.
> 
> 4. After you have applied and have either the receipt from the Post Office or from the "patronato" proving that your application is being processed, you can go to the City Hall (see step 1) and apply to register yourself as a live-in family member (familiare convivente) of your wife at the same address where she lives. Should there be no problems you will get registered and in due time (weeks, or more likely months) you will get a call from the Polizia informing you that your "permesso di soggiorno" is ready for collection. And voilà, you are a legal resident!


I too am interested in these posts as I am a UK citizen,my husband is a US citizen and at present we live in the US. Are you saying that once all the above paperwork is completed in Italy,having first traveled on a family spousal visa issued by the Italian consulate here in the US, my husband is allowed to actually *work* in Italy? I didn't think he could, but if he can then we will apply for the visa here. Thanks anyway for your very informative post.


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## Bevdeforges

arran29 said:


> I too am interested in these posts as I am a UK citizen,my husband is a US citizen and at present we live in the US. Are you saying that once all the above paperwork is completed in Italy,having first traveled on a family spousal visa issued by the Italian consulate here in the US, my husband is allowed to actually *work* in Italy? I didn't think he could, but if he can then we will apply for the visa here. Thanks anyway for your very informative post.


You should contact the Italian consulate in NY, but be aware that there IS an EU directive on non-EU spouses of EU nationals taking up residence together in another EU country. Italy should have some sort of "accelerated" or "simplified" procedure for granting the non-EU spouse legal residence (with full working privileges) once the EU spouse has established that they are resident.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Arturo.c

arran29 said:


> Are you saying that once all the above paperwork is completed in Italy,having first traveled on a family spousal visa issued by the Italian consulate here in the US, my husband is allowed to actually *work* in Italy?


Certainly! Directive 2004/38/EC gives to spouses and family members of EU citizens the right to move and reside in any of the countries who belong to the European Economic Area. That includes the right to work as well.

To have a better knowledge of your rights under EU law, I suggest you to download and read carefully the guide to Directive 2004/38 published by the European Union.

Best wishes,
Arturo.


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## arran29

Arturo.c said:


> Certainly! Directive 2004/38/EC gives to spouses and family members of EU citizens the right to move and reside in any of the countries who belong to the European Economic Area. That includes the right to work as well.
> 
> To have a better knowledge of your rights under EU law, I suggest you to download and read carefully the
> 
> Best wishes,
> Arturo.


OK I will read that info,thanks for that,who is responsible for publishing that document? It doesn't seem that official due to the countless exclamation marks


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## Arturo.c

arran29 said:


> OK I will read that info,thanks for that,who is responsible for publishing that document? It doesn't seem that official due to the countless exclamation marks


I got the link to that document from the webpage of the Council of the European Union about free movement and residence for EU citizens and their family members.

Don't know about the exclamation marks, probably it was originally written in French and badly translated...


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## HDMonza

*The easiest path for a work permit in Italy?*

Thank you Arturo for the vast information. 
Another question in regards.
I'm a non-EU citizen and my wife is a GER citizen. We are already in Italy (me with a tourist visa, she is working for a German company). 
1- I heard that only an Italian company can apply for a work permit for me, is it true?
There is a French company interested in my services for all over Europe, based out of Monza. Which path would be the easiest? 
a- apply for a work permit due to being married to a EU-citizen (do we really have to go back, both of us to my country of origin?) 
b- Apply for a work permit in France (where the company is located and revenues are accountable).
c- Apply for a "Libero Profesionista" in Italy and work as a consultant to the French company based out of Italy?

We're not talking about a washing plates in a restaurant kind of job (no offence anyone), but rather a European sales and marketing director in the medical device sector. Does it change the situation?

Looking forward for your answers. Thanks in advance.


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## Arturo.c

HDMonza said:


> Thank you Arturo for the vast information.
> Another question in regards.
> I'm a non-EU citizen and my wife is a GER citizen. We are already in Italy (me with a tourist visa, she is working for a German company).
> 1- I heard that only an Italian company can apply for a work permit for me, is it true?
> There is a French company interested in my services for all over Europe, based out of Monza. Which path would be the easiest?
> a- apply for a work permit due to being married to a EU-citizen (do we really have to go back, both of us to my country of origin?)
> b- Apply for a work permit in France (where the company is located and revenues are accountable).
> c- Apply for a "Libero Profesionista" in Italy and work as a consultant to the French company based out of Italy?
> 
> We're not talking about a washing plates in a restaurant kind of job (no offence anyone), but rather a European sales and marketing director in the medical device sector. Does it change the situation?
> 
> Looking forward for your answers. Thanks in advance.


Ok, let's begin from the start:

1. As spouse of an EU citizen you don't need a work permit to work in Italy. Either fly back to the States and apply for a "Visto di ricongiungimento familiare" to the Italian Consulate nearest to your hometown (bring a marriage certificate and your wife's "certificato di residenza", and there will be not many questions asked), or contact one of the local grassroots associations who help immigrants in filing the right papers (my wife was very happy with ANOLF, but there are many other ones) and see if you can apply to the Questura for changing your visa status and get a "permesso di soggiorno" anyway. Be aware that if you already overstayed your 90 days the latter is not quite the right choice;
2. I have no idea how easy it is to get a work permit in France, given also the fact that you and your wife don't live there. The French system is, like the Italian one, based on someone's registered residence, so you should seek advice from the French Consulate-General in Milan about the right procedure;
3. Being a "Libero professionista" involves having a "Partita IVA", a tax number that must be registered in all your invoices and payslips. To obtain a "Partita IVA" at the local "Agenzia delle Entrate" you have to be a resident of Italy, and holder of a "Permesso di Soggiorno". So it's pretty much back to point one...


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## irish_in_italy

ok first thing. Where were you married? Where did you live before coming to Italy? If you lived for 5 years in another EU state you should have no problems coming to Italy, living and working. If not there are a few things that need to be done. 
If you come to Italy the EU citizen needs to register ASAP in the questura, the non EU citizen also needs to go to the questura and get the "carta di soggiorno" which should be given with no problems (Anglo saxon nationals so US, Australia ett normally are given precedence and have no real problems). While awaiting that you are given the permanent carta di soggiorno you can't work so it will be up to the EU citizen to prove that they can support the family with their job and paycheck. You also need to bring your marriage certificate (get it translated at your Embassy) and register with the Embassy, or by the Italian consolate in your country if you were married outside the EU. 

Remember Italy is part of the EU and should respect EU laws and decrets but often not even the lawmakers know what they are and try to be "furbi" and get one over on you. 


HDMonza. You can apply for your documents and you don't need an Italian company to do it for you. Just go to the questura with your wife's italian documents and you should get a carta di soggiorno permanente straight away


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## duggsy69

hi,

this forum has some invaluable information in it so thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to take the time to post.

I am in a similar situation myself - I am a British architect who has been living in China running an architecture company for 3 years. I have been married to a local Chinese for 4 years and we have previously lived i the UK - but only for 6 months on a spousal visa - this was not converted to a permanent residency as we wanted to return to China.

Anyway, to get to the point! We want to return to Europe and live in Italy - I will be looking for architectural employment, my wife, initially at least will be studying the language and not too concerned about working for the first few months.

It seems that the process is fairly simple (as much as Italian bureaucracy can be - but believe compared to Chinese anything is simple!), but that the biggest hurdle may be in getting the initial Visto di ingresso per ricongiungimento familiare - is this likely to be harder as my wife is Chinese?

I would hope, as a professional myself and as she has previously lived in the UK, it would be fairly straightforward.

Any thoughts are welcome, thanks in advance.....


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## Arturo.c

duggsy69 said:


> It seems that the process is fairly simple (as much as Italian bureaucracy can be - but believe compared to Chinese anything is simple!), but that the biggest hurdle may be in getting the initial Visto di ingresso per ricongiungimento familiare - is this likely to be harder as my wife is Chinese?


Hello,

If you read carefully my previous reply you can see how the process works. My only concern lies in the fact that you don't have yet secured a job and a residence address in Italy. Therefore it would be better if you settle yourself in Italy first, and then your wife could apply for a "ricongiungimento familiare" either at the Italian Embassy in Beijing or at one of the onsulates in Guangdong, Shanghai or Hong Kong.

There are hundreds of thousands of Chinese nationals living and working in Italy, so your wife's won't feel too far from home (particularly if she's from Zhejiang, from where the vast majority of Chinese in Italy hail from).

The only serious hurdle could be the overcrowding of Italian visa offices in China, which are chronically understaffed and overworked. I heard that in some places people start queuing outside as early as 4am...


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## duggsy69

Arturo.c said:


> Hello,
> My only concern lies in the fact that you don't have yet secured a job and a residence address in Italy.


Thanks Arturo.c,

Actually I found time to re-read everything and the document regarding the directive. It all seems very positive. Regarding your concerns about work - we have more than enough financial support in terms of savings to last a long time and will also be continuing regular consultancy work remotely from China.

My understanding is that we just need to prove, with documents, that we can adequately support ourselves with savings?

About the address - we will also be looking to buy a house, but obviously we'll have to rent initially. What are the time factors regarding the need to find and address in relation to registering as a resident?

Thanks again for your help, after the nightmare visa hurdles we've had to face before, i'm glad this one seems that it may be easier,

Cheers,
Ross


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## Emmawhite22

Hello! This has answered a lot of my questions that I posed in another post about my situation (I'm an American married to my French husband, we'll be moving to Rome in August). I'm only worried about how long this whole process might take! I've been offered a job in a reputable school in Rome for September, and signed a contract, but we won't be able to move to Italy until end of August! Which makes it seem like I won't have the "right" paperwork in order by the time I start work. Ack!
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I've lived in Italy before and know that sometimes they can go easy on you if they see that you have your paperwork "in progress." Thanks for the input!

Emma


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## Arturo.c

Emmawhite22 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I've lived in Italy before and know that sometimes they can go easy on you if they see that you have your paperwork "in progress." Thanks for the input!
> 
> Emma


You should probably be better off if you book an appointment well in advance at the visa office of the nearest Italian Consulate (either LA or SF, depending on where you live) and bring along your French husband, with your passports, your marriage certificate and the application form for a "ricongiungimento familiare-familiare al seguito". Although the EU directive states clearly that non-EU citizen spouses of EU citizens could travel and settle in the EU without a visa, this part of the directive is implemented at will of the signatory parties. Italy requires that spouses get a visa nonetheless.
Further information on how to apply and fees involved can be found on the webpage of the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.


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## Emmawhite22

Dear Arturo,

Thank you so much for your very helpful input. I'm always interested in hearing as much as possible from people on the ground, since what I hear from the offices here in France and even in Italy is very confusing. For instance, I have already been to see the Italian consulate here, and they told me I need to get everything done inside Italy.
The thing that seems crazy to me is that we're married. How can they expect my husband to move to Italy without me and for me to somehow tag along after? Being American, I have the right to be in Italy for 90 days anyway. My strategy for the moment is, for all legal purposes, to "pretend" to the Italian authorities that I do not have my current job offer, go through the processes of getting settled and getting my permesso di soggiorno ASAP (how long does it usually take, anyway? Difficult question to answer from Italy, I know. . . ) and then start work as soon as I am able. The problem is I do not have much time to get this all done.

This problem is compounded by the fact that all offices I talk to all like to pass me off to other places and give me vastly different answers. Many places have told me that since my current residency is France, I have to get things done here, and not Italy, or the U.S. I've also heard the opposite! Unfortunately there is no chance for FrenchHusband to be with me in the U.S. when I go to visit this summer.


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## Arturo.c

Emmawhite22 said:


> Many places have told me that since my current residency is France, I have to get things done here, and not Italy, or the U.S.


Whoops! I didn't pay attention to the little French flag up there. This could make things easier for you depending on how the French handle immigration matters. If you were in the UK, you would likely have on your passport a sticker with "Family member of EEA citizen" stamped on it, and that would remove any need to get an Italian entry visa, since you have already settled in another EU country.

Getting a _"carta di soggiorno"_ could take weeks or months, depending on where do you settle in Italy and the efficiency (or lack thereof) of the local "ufficio immigrazione". The application procedure has been streamlined since the olden days when you had to queue for hours at the "questura", and starts by filling up a paperwork "kit" that you get either in post offices or at the offices of some support and advocacy groups for immigrants, which can also help you fill in all the application forms properly, and in some cases can send them directly from their computer system rather than by mail. My (American) wife filed her application through ANOLF, and they were very helpful.

A few weeks after you sent your application (keep the receipt as proof), you will receive in the mail an invitation to go to the nearest police office to have your fingerprints taken. You could even get an unexpected knock at your door from the police, in order to check whether you do indeed live at the address you listed in the application.

Once that is done, you will likely receive an invitation afterwards (by phone or mail) to finally come and pick up the document that makes you a legal resident of Italy. Remember to bring the receipt of the application and a revenue stamp for the amount of € 14.62, as they often forget to mention this detail, and it's so frustrating - after waiting a long time in a room - to have to run out and try to get one before their office closes down.

You will also have to bring the receipt of your application for the "carta di soggiorno" to the "Comune" where you and your husband will register your residence. This in order to get your name on the utilities in your new home, get your National Health Insurance card, and eventually convert your French driving license into an Italian one if you want.

About being passed on from an office to another, that's an old flaw of Italian bureaucracy which, rather than giving you a straight answer (which sometimes the don't know or won't tell you), prefers to unload the burden to some other office. The advocacy group that helps you file your application can also provide you with advice and useful tips.


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## Emmawhite22

Dear Arturo,

Thank you so much, this has been immensely helpful! I have heard about this kit before, and it seems like the way that made the most sense to me. I will try to pick up a kit at the post office/questura when I am in Rome next week. Do you remember what documents your wife needed to provide with her kit? I'm guessing they would be different from mine, since my husband is French.
I'm thinking of making no mention of the fact that I've been offered a job for September, since bringing it up might just cause suspicion, rather than speeding up the process. Any thoughts on this?

I'm only a little confused when you talk about needed the permesso di soggiorno to get our names put on the utility bills. I thought that in order to get the permesso di soggiorno we needed to prove that we were living in Rome, so isn't this backwards? Basically, what were the key documents that I'll need to supply to get my permesso, if you have any idea?

Thanks so much, again, for everything, especially the link to ANOLF!

Emma


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## Arturo.c

Emmawhite22 said:


> I'm only a little confused when you talk about needed the permesso di soggiorno to get our names put on the utility bills. I thought that in order to get the permesso di soggiorno we needed to prove that we were living in Rome, so isn't this backwards? Basically, what were the key documents that I'll need to supply to get my permesso, if you have any idea?


If i remember well, she had to submit a full copy of her passport, a copy of our marriage certificate and a copy of my ID.

But, since I was already residing in Italy, I only had to add her name to my registered address. Given the fact that you are moving there with your husband, it would be wise to mail the kit after he has secured a place to stay and registered his address at the Comune (he can do it by simply showing his French passport and a copy of the rental/tenancy agreement to the city hall).

A good thing is that, thank to a new law that came into force last February, an Italian public administration cannot ask a citizen to produce a certificate issued by another Italian public administration anymore. Your husband will only have to sign an affidavit stating that you are living together with him at his registered address, and that's it. No more need to get a "certificato di residenza" anymore.

Hope this will be helpful to you. Have a nice time in Italy!


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## jawwadmasood

*Some further information*

First of all thanks for all volunteers for there helpful information. I would like to ask some information but 1st explain my standing:
- I am Pakistan national and living in Italy for last 4 years.
- I have done my PhD and now i am working in lab as research engineer but my legal status in Italy is still Student(Temporary Permit of Stay- Validity one year)
- My fiance is from Spain and we are going to marry in October this year(Now a days we are in the process of marriage registration in Spain).
- We are planning to settled in Italy as my work (financially more stable) will be for the next three years. 
- Right now she is working in Spain and will be shifting to Italy in October. 
- From October onwards I will be the working hand and she intend to find job in Italy. 
Following are my question:
1- Which documents i will be required to apply for Permanent residence in Italy?
2- As she will not be having a financial support and she will be staying in Italy more than three months what kind of financial security we need to show? Is my work contract with university will be enough to show our financial liabilities? 

Thanks in advance.


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