# Hello!



## mattandcara (Jan 29, 2012)

T' would appear that some people have taken an immediate stand off stance with us. I would like to formally introduce us, so as to start again!
I am cara, my husband is Matt, we are 30somethings with 2 children, 10yo daughter and 5yo son. We currently live in Essex.
We are hoping to move over this year to the costa del sol. 
Yes I can almost hear the eyes rolling! We aren't in a rush and won't uproot our family without a firm employ in place. I have been reading (with great trepidation) all your threads on the financial situation over there, we really aren't under any illusions. I have lived in Mallorca myself and have always wanted to be back in Spain.
It would be nice to hang around, get involved and share the experiences with others who have done the same.
We are both welcoming of your advice, but we also can't help but be excited. There is a lot of negativity, understandably, but please don't think us rude, as I will not you. We are very humorous and rarely do we intend to be rude. Our sarcastic humour can be mistaken.
Look forward to getting to know you all.

Cara and Matt


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

mattandcara said:


> T' would appear that some people have taken an immediate stand off stance with us. I would like to formally introduce us, so as to start again!
> I am cara, my husband is Matt, we are 30somethings with 2 children, 10yo daughter and 5yo son. We currently live in Essex.
> We are hoping to move over this year to the costa del sol.
> Yes I can almost hear the eyes rolling! We aren't in a rush and won't uproot our family without a firm employ in place. I have been reading (with great trepidation) all your threads on the financial situation over there, we really aren't under any illusions. I have lived in Mallorca myself and have always wanted to be back in Spain.
> ...



It is an exciting time planning a move abroad, and no one would want to rain on your parade so to speak... The 'negativity' is 'reality' to many posters living here in Spain, and the depressing stories we come across on a daily basis of families finding life too tough to live here means we only want others to see the situation as it is warts and all. 

Good luck with it all

Lynn
x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mattandcara said:


> T' would appear that some people have taken an immediate stand off stance with us. I would like to formally introduce us, so as to start again!
> I am cara, my husband is Matt, we are 30somethings with 2 children, 10yo daughter and 5yo son. We currently live in Essex.
> We are hoping to move over this year to the costa del sol.
> Yes I can almost hear the eyes rolling! We aren't in a rush and won't uproot our family without a firm employ in place. I have been reading (with great trepidation) all your threads on the financial situation over there, we really aren't under any illusions. I have lived in Mallorca myself and have always wanted to be back in Spain.
> ...


well its nice to "meet" you!! Sorry about our negativity - its just how things are and you'll find it alot easier if you are prepared. We were all once like you. In days gone by it was easy to simply up sticks, arrive in Spain and get a job. the cost of living was cheap and life was easy. Typically (for us) it changed the year we arrived - 2008!!!! The cost of living in Spain shot up, as did unemployment, the exchange rate went down, businesses closed and alot of expats returned to the UK. But there are folk who are still in Spain (obviously) but most have an outside income - unless they arrived before the recession and set themselves up

Anyway, I hope if nothing else our negativity has forewarned you. No, we dont want to stop you, but forewarned is forearmed. 

As it happens, we returned to the UK last summer as my children wanted to go back to the UK for college and my husband got fed up with commuting, but I'm popping back tomorrow cos I miss Spain. I have to say, apart from the weather and the lack of "nanny state", the UK is a much easier country to live in - maybe its the language or my inherent understanding of how things are.

That said, rumour has it that its as cold there as it is in the UK right now - again, I've typically picked my moment to visit LOL!!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I don't recognise the term'negativity'. 
What people living and working here say about the economic and employment situation is the truth.
There is a difference....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mattandcara said:


> T' would appear that some people have taken an immediate stand off stance with us. I would like to formally introduce us, so as to start again!
> I am cara, my husband is Matt, we are 30somethings with 2 children, 10yo daughter and 5yo son. We currently live in Essex.
> We are hoping to move over this year to the costa del sol.
> Yes I can almost hear the eyes rolling! We aren't in a rush and won't uproot our family without a firm employ in place. I have been reading (with great trepidation) all your threads on the financial situation over there, we really aren't under any illusions. I have lived in Mallorca myself and have always wanted to be back in Spain.
> ...


Hi again,
I posted on the other thread (Newbie here) where you said


> so all information would be much appreciated.


and here you say


> We are both welcoming of your advice


The thing is, if you say that then you'll get information - positive and negative. 
Of course, you're the only one who can decide whether to take it on board or not. Please think about it from our point of view - someone comes on to the forum *with 2 children* and says they are thinking of coming here to look for work. Would it be fair/ wise/ whatever of us to NOT give the information that has already been given about schools and employment?
I hope you've looked at threads about employment and schools that I gave you links to. They are full of information.
Hope you find what you're looking for, be it in Spain or ...??


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The bottom line tho is to do what you are going to do and that is to come over and have a look! I guess you need to see for yourself and see if there is a way you can secure a living in Spain. Theres nothing like finding out first hand! 

Spain is a great country to live in if you have money, its grim of you dont - especially with kids!! 

Stay with us tho, ask questions. I know the areas you're planning to look at so any info just ask - and be confident we'll tell you the truth!! lol


Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi Cara and Matt,
I'm not going to roll my eyes at you, as nothing would have stopped us from moving to Spain a few years ago, and I guess that if we were just thinking about moving out here today nothing would stop us again.
For us, there was the feeling that we would make it, no matter what others said. After all, we had made it through hard times in the UK also and had proved we could be innovative if the need arose.
Our children were already grown up, studying, working and living in the UK, so I'm not sure whether we would have felt the same way if they were still at school (but have a sneaking suspicion we would have still made the move...).

But what I will say is that setting up home in a new country, with a different system of rules and regulations for almost everything, as well as language and culture differences, isn't easy at the best of times. And these are far from the best of times. This is what many posts here are reflecting.
Given the chance, I would go back to live permanently in the UK tomorrow, but my husband disagrees and personal circumstances do not allow it.
Even a year ago, I did not feel this way and was a staunch advocate of 'if you are determined, you will still make it'.
Times and circumstances change and peoples views change along with them....

I wish you all the very best in your endeavor and admire your determination.
And look forward to sharing your experiences here.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

A warm welcome from the sunny Canary Islands, I think we are part of Spain

I wish you the best of luck with your venture,

Hepa


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## Classified (May 9, 2010)

Hi Cara and Matt, Good luck with your venture, never give up your dream, you only live once, I found as one door closed another two opened, think positive, do not wait for work to come to you, get out there and look. At least you can say you gave it a go.


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## mattandcara (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks classified x

Cara and Matt


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## mattandcara (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks hepa x

Cara and Matt


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## mattandcara (Jan 29, 2012)

Thank you Solwriter, very much relate to you!

Cara and Matt


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## mattandcara (Jan 29, 2012)

Thank you Jo, very much looking forward to our visit in a few days! If not just to get away from the cold here at the moment!

Cara and Matt


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mattandcara said:


> Thank you Jo, very much looking forward to our visit in a few days! If not just to get away from the cold here at the moment!
> 
> Cara and Matt



(pppssst - have you seen the weather forecast for Fuengirola, benalmadena, etc??) I'm going there tomorrow and will be taking my thermals. If we had time, we could have arranged to meet up. If I can get on line while I'm there maybe we could sort it??!

Jo xxx


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## mattandcara (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh ******! Really? Cold? Nooooo!!!!

Cara and Matt


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

It is cold by our standards ... but I notice a couple down the road that have come over for a week have had their doors and windows open so they obviously dont feel it like us.

Having said that, its grey cloudy and wet this morning now


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2012)

Yesterday I was working in the campo in a t-shirt. Now, freezing cold rain. Dogs and me covered in mud from a good stomp. Snow in mountains down to 1500m - picture postcard views (as my Mum used to say)

On Saturday, it`ll be like a British summer again and it`s actually winter...

Time for a double-egg n chips based snack, lashings of tea and some Desert Island Discs. 

Lush 
_
ps - Did you know that pretty much most of the archive of Desert Island Discs can be downloaded for free, legally, from Aunty? An incredibly broad and fascinating range of interviews and journeys of muscial whimsy. Cracking stuff. -Link to BBC site for destructions etc._


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mattandcara said:


> Thank you Solwriter, very much relate to you!
> 
> Cara and Matt


And I to you.
When we first moved out here, we tried almost everything legal to earn much needed cash. Some worked, some didn't. But a bit of ducking and diving got us through.
Nowadays it's harder to innovate, but not impossible.
I think you'll be fine. 

Oh yes, and we have torrential rain in the Granada mountains today and the snow is slowly creeping down to our level (nearly 900m above sea level), but when the sun comes out it's still warm in the day. Even here!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> I think you'll be fine.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Solwriter said:
> 
> 
> > I think you'll be fine.
> ...


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> You are an optimist


I think it is important to be an optimist and have dreams, even when the majority see the drawbacks to them.
As I said, if someone has made up their mind to give living in Spain a go, despite all the harsh realities (and I agree, they are harsh), then they will come and live here anyway.



steve_in_spain said:


> I will add though that I wish anyone who comes to Spain every success and just say if you really want it, then work your nuts off (if you can get the work) and be determined and fingers crossed!


That's how I feel.


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I know qualified teachers who are working for minimum wage because there are so many out of work that the private schools find they can get really good teachers really cheap - they are all desperate.


I can believe that. My own spanish teacher has come over from Bilbao to teach here in Germany. She mentioned it is very difficult to get 'trajaco' there at the moment.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> I think it is important to be an optimist and have dreams, even when the majority see the drawbacks to them.
> As I said, if someone has made up their mind to give living in Spain a go, despite all the harsh realities (and I agree, they are harsh), then they will come and live here anyway.
> 
> 
> That's how I feel.


Oh yes, I agree. Those who are determined will do it anyway. But Steve made a very important qualification: he said 'If you can get the work'.
Optimism doesn't put food on the table.
That guy we took on to shovel **** is as I said a highly qualified telecoms engineer, fluent -and I mean fluent - in Spanish, English and German, has run his own business.
Now if there is no other work for him than clearing up dog poo what hope for non-Spanish-speaking possibly unskilled immigrants?
I've said before that imo any jobs going should go to Spanish people. If we take on another employee next month it will most probably be from the local unemployment register, for two reasons: one, because there is a scheme whereby we get a subsidy for so doing and two...because it's the right thing to do.
I make no apology for being a Jeremiah (female version). It's all very well for those of us who don't need to work or have work whether here in Spain or online to tell other people to go for it...We're alright, luckily.
And when people say blithely 'You have nothing to lose'.....Well, no. Only the continuity of your children's education, their possible difficulty in adjusting to a new life where they will leave their friends, their language, all that is familiar behind. Only the possible fraying of established relationships under the strain of either fruitless job seeking or the instability of low-paid insecure employment. Only the safety net of the UK welfare state to catch you if you fall...and of course the NHS.
To gain what?? 
If and at this time it's a huge 'if' you do find a well-paid job and settle down happily, you may have a better life than in the UK - if a better life means sunshine and drinks round the pool. Working life is far less relaxed than in the UK - longer hours for less pay.
Even in good times, I would never encourage people to take such a momentous decision. That is taking on quite a responsibility.I would present them with the facts which is what I and posters like Pesky try to do.
Of course some people move and succeed. But NatalieM who has done so planned carefully for literally years before she and her family made the move.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually we need more immigrants... according to the news today last year 300,000 Spaniards left Spain because of no work... so I guess we need to keep the numbers up of incomers!
> ...


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

What Spain needs is young (and youngish) people. People who will pay taxes and insurance into the system so that welfare benefits can continue to be paid to those who cannot work and services like the NHS can continue to operate.
I agree that it doesn't appear fair to take a badly needed job opportunity away from an unemployed Spaniard.
But the reality, from a financial point of view, is that anyone who pays into the system (and especially those who offer new work opportunities so others can pay into the system) should be welcome at this time.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> What Spain needs is young (and youngish) people. People who will pay taxes and insurance into the system so that welfare benefits can continue to be paid to those who cannot work and services like the NHS can continue to operate.
> I agree that it doesn't appear fair to take a badly needed job opportunity away from an unemployed Spaniard.
> But the reality, from a financial point of view, is that anyone who pays into the system (and especially those who offer new work opportunities so others can pay into the system) should be welcome at this time.


If only that reflected reality.....
Professionals with jobs already secured who will pay into the system don't often come on to forums asking for advice, though, do they?
I have a sneaking suspicion that far too many immigrants do not pay into the system but take such work as they can find on a cash-in-hand basis. And I'm not saying it's because they want to cheat....it's because desperate people do things they'd prefer not to.
Incidentally, only the UK and the ROI allowed unrestricted immigration from the EU...other states imposed quotas, presumably because the cost of indigenous unemployment and the threat of social unrest was considered to be a higher cost than any benefits immigrants might bring.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> steve_in_spain said:
> 
> 
> > You come into a different category, Steve, you are encouraging and developing employment opportunities. You are valuable.
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Mary... you say the kindest things. Most people say I am cheap, you say I am valuable. Gracias guapa! Te quiero x
> ...


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

There are young unemployed people on this island, yet all the building sites are crewed by young Venezuelan workers, skilled and unskilled. It is the same with the bars and restaurants, many Venezuelan staff are employed yet the Spanish waiters decline the work. 

The Venezuelans have a legal right to be here through ancestry connections.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Hepa said:


> There are young unemployed people on this island, yet all the building sites are crewed by young Venezuelan workers, skilled and unskilled. It is the same with the bars and restaurants, many Venezuelan staff are employed yet the Spanish waiters decline the work.
> 
> The Venezuelans have a legal right to be here through ancestry connections.


The Spanish decline the work or are declined the work?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Like I wrote, I know of those that decline to work


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Hepa said:


> Like I wrote, I know of those that decline to work


Problem is, when foreigners are willing to work all hours for basic pay and often in the black the spaniards (quite rightly) expect more and won't work in those conditions. I know a girl who is brazillian (married to a spaniard) but she works silly hours as a waitress, she worked xmas day for normal minimum wage pay for 12 hours... she does extra for free too just because she is grateful to have a job. Many spaniards won't work in those conditions, and frankly why should they but obviously businesses are struggling, they want as much as they can get for as little as they can get, and you can't knock the people that are willing to do the hours in the conditions... vicious circle!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> If only that reflected reality.....
> Professionals with jobs already secured who will pay into the system don't often come on to forums asking for advice, though, do they?


Of course it doesn't reflect reality.  I'm not even saying it should from a moral point of view, just from a financial one.
And, like you, I cannot say how many professionals with jobs already secured come into forums like these, but would say not that many. However, just a search will show people asking questions about NIE, Residencia, Property, Area, etc, because they already have a job to go to.



mrypg9 said:


> I have a sneaking suspicion that far too many immigrants do not pay into the system but take such work as they can find on a cash-in-hand basis. And I'm not saying it's because they want to cheat....it's because desperate people do things they'd prefer not to.


I agree. But on another thread here Ive already said that one of the reasons for this is that the paperwork involved is a bloody nightmare and, for an autonomo, often too expensive.
Workers in all aspects of the building industry, for example, usually have to be autonomo because they move from site to site and boss to boss. Even when times were better, these workers could be unemployed for weeks at a time and, if autonomo, would still have had to pay 250 euros each and every month.
No wonder many immigrants _and Spanish_ building workers work in the black.
For the worker who will do anything, that becomes even more of a problem, as they have to ensure that the jobs they find will pay enough and last, before committing themselves to that monthly payout.



mrypg9 said:


> Incidentally, only the UK and the ROI allowed unrestricted immigration from the EU...other states imposed quotas, presumably because the cost of indigenous unemployment and the threat of social unrest was considered to be a higher cost than any benefits immigrants might bring.


You presume that to be the reason, but like everything else in politics, I'm sure there were others.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> You presume that to be the reason, but like everything else in politics, I'm sure there were others.


What other reasons could there be apart from those? Pressures from Trades Unions, no doubt, to protect indigenous workers' jobs but I said that job protection was the reason.
One reason, perhaps the chief one, why the UK allowed unrestricted EU job immigration was because of pressure from business organisations to ensure the supply of cheap, non-unionised labour.
What a boon to the middle-classes who could spend on comparatively cheap Polish plumbers and Slovakian nannies.
But not so good for those who were priced out of a job....
Have you read 'Two Caravans' by that Ukrainian writer whose name escapes me? 
It describes very authentically how many of these immigrant workers, exploited by both their compatriots and British gangmasters, lived and worked.


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