# Bank overdraft charges, Helpful information.



## canaca

Hi all, I'm new to the forum but have lived here in Spain for about 16 years. I thought id share some useful information with those of you who might not understand the language very well and who might not be aware of a "scam" that most if not all banks are taking advantage of to milk both foreigners and natives alike of hundreds of thousands of Euros every month. 
In these times of crisis, jobs are pretty scarce, money is scarcer still and as you all know, the banks charge money for accounts that are overdrawn at the start of each month. If, for instance, Telefonica, pass their bill on the first of the month, and you dont get paid until the fifth, the bank will pay Telefonica, leave your account with a negative balance and after 3-5 days, if your account is still not regulated, charge a commision under the concept "GASTOS RECLAMACION SALDO DEUDOR". The "comission" is normally about 30 euros. 

What the banks dont tell you is that the concept "gastos" which means "cost of" was created in its day, to cover charges incurred by the bank, while trying to recuperate your negative balance. Meaning that if the bank had to send a registered letter, send a "burofax" or indeed physically send a debt collector to your house, they would charge you for the amount that it cost them to get your negative balance sorted. 

These days, some banks might send you an Email, or a text message or even a letter letting you know that your acount is in the red, this however does not in any way justify the 30 plus euros charge. It has been deemed completely illegal. 

The banks automatically charge you the 30 odd euros regardless of whether they are out of pocket or not. 

The key to this whole idea is that the banks have to justify every cent of the amount that they charge you. If you were to fill out an official complaint, the bank would have to show, in full detail, just what the 30 odd euros was charged for, if they cant show this to the assesors, they will be sanctioned. The idea of this post, is to get the banks to give the money back, without having to take the matter that far, the last thing they want is to have an inspection on their hands. They know what they are doing is illegal, but as long as no-one complains, they keep on doing it. 

In my case, i always get paid on or after the fifth of each month. The water, electricity telephone bill etc, are charged on the 31st or the 1st of the month, and i dont always have enough to cover the cost before i get paid. Up until now i have called the bank, and they always agreed to remove the commision without any fuss. 

Last month, given that the banks are feeling the pinch of the crisis, they informed me that the "Gastos reclamacion saldo deudor" could not be removed anymore, that their central bank "wont let them" give the amount back. 

I went online and found all the legal clauses that stipulate the illegality of this concept, I drafted a letter, brought it to my bank (two copies) asked them to sign one of them and put the date on, the manager, once he had read the letter, admitted the illegality of the commision, asked me nicely not to further the matter, and said that i would never again be charged for the same. I agreed and fifteen minutes later i had the 36,50€ back in my account. 

I will post a copy of my letter here, and leave blanks that you can fill in with your own names N.I.E numbers, and amounts charged. 

I would like to stress that this letter is only for use with "overdrawn charges" and wont work for debit or credit card commision, etc. While those comissions are for the most part abusive, they are not, unfortunately, illegal. 
If you have any doubts as to what charges it could be used for, drop me a line and ill help in whatever way i can. 

If you want to read it in English, you can copy and paste in any online translator, though as most of you know, the online translators are not 100% foolproof and it will come out a bit "gobbledy gookey"! 


Here goes the letter: 

*Estimados señores. 

Escribo esta carta al objeto de reclamar la devolución de la siguiente comisión cobrada indebidamente y que detallo a continuación; Gastos reclamación saldo deudor: cobrados de forma periódica desde la apertura de la cuenta, por diversos importes, siendo el último de (Insert commision amount here) euros. 

Entiendo que dichas comisiones no se corresponden con un servicio efectivamente prestado (norma tercera de la circular 8/1990 del Banco de España) ya que dicho descubierto se regularizaron sin que mediara reclamación alguna por su entidad más allá del cargo en cuenta de los controvertidos “gastos de reclamación". 

En el concepto de los “Gastos de reclamación de saldo deudor”, se entiende que el “gasto” de reclamación de posición deudora será exigible por cada posición deudora y reclamada. Con independencia de otros razonamientos al respecto, les agradecería que me hicieran llegar los comprobantes de las acciones realizadas por la sucursal al objeto de reclamar dicha deuda. 

Aprovecho para recordarles que si dicho gasto no puede ser justificado por su entidad pasaría a considerarse como “comisión”, vulnerando la Ley 7/1995. 

Finalmente, esta comisión puede y debe estar registrada ante el Banco de España, pero eso no significa que esta entidad controle “a priori” su aplicabilidad. En repetidas ocasiones el Banco de España ha dictaminado en contra de la aplicación indebida de comisiones previamente registradas ante el mismo. 

Les agradeceré que me contesten en el plazo de 2 meses estipulado por la normativa del Banco de España, ya que de lo contrario me veré obligado a presentar mi reclamación ante dicha entidad, con las molestias que esto conlleva. Comprendo que la cantidad que reclamo no es muy importante pero no duden que, en el caso de que el dictamen del Banco de España me sea favorable, presentaré una demanda ante el Juzgado de 1ª Instancia de Puerto del Rosario, por lo que considero una mala práctica bancaria y un abuso por parte de su entidad. 

Les comunico que dado mi limitado conocimiento de la normativa bancaria he requerido los servicios de la Asociación para la Defensa de Clientes de Entidades Financieras (ADECEF), cuyos gastos de asesoramiento legal incluiré en la demanda. (En este caso sí se tratará de “gastos” y no de comisiones, ya que verdaderamente se prestará un servicio, en este caso de defensa de los derechos de los consumidores) 

Recibe un cordial saludo, 

(insert your name here) 
N.I.E. (insert your N.I.E here)*


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## Alcalaina

Thanks Canaca - very enlightening!

I am still smarting from a series of nasty tricks played on me by Lloyds Bank International (formerly Halifax Hispania, who were great). Having finally decided to dump them and start a new account somewhere else, I now discover that they are charging me €75 to transfer the money to my new account using their "free" internet banking service!!!

Bunch of evil scheming villains, the lot of 'em. Legalised robbery - ironic considering that people originally started putting their money in banks because they thought it would be safe from theft. Now they just help themselves to your cash whenever they feel like it.


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## canaca

Alcalaina said:


> Thanks Canaca - very enlightening!
> 
> I am still smarting from a series of nasty tricks played on me by Lloyds Bank International (formerly Halifax Hispania, who were great). Having finally decided to dump them and start a new account somewhere else, I now discover that they are charging me €75 to transfer the money to my new account using their "free" internet banking service!!!
> 
> Bunch of evil scheming villains, the lot of 'em. Legalised robbery - ironic considering that people originally started putting their money in banks because they thought it would be safe from theft. Now they just help themselves to your cash whenever they feel like it.


You don't know the half of it Alcalaina,
My Girlfriend, (Spanish) used to work for Halifax, she could tell you a horror story or two. Just remember, any offer, anything "free" offered by banks ALWAYS has something attached to it, there will always be some benefit in it for them. If they give you a "free" television, for instance, they will make you sign a contract just long enough for them to suck the price of the TV through high commisions interest rates etc. Bankers never lose, they just manipulate advertising to make you think that you gain. 

And as far as the creation of banks and the general idea of banking goes, look up "the first bank in wikipedia!" its worth reading, the differences between what was started and what we have today.

I seem to remember that after the first banks "trial run" it was outruled, but they went ahead anyway and kept the darn things going. Now its obligatory to have a bank account if you want to live in the modern world, cant own a house, have a job, have a phone have water and electricity etc. without having a bank account.

kinda makes me pine for the 90's when i started work and my paycheck was handed to me in a brown envelope! These days my paycheck is already half gone before i even get it!


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## Stravinsky

Thats wierd because my bank just changed me from a fee paying account to a free non fee paying account, and they pay me 3% of my utility bills that go out on d/d from the account. No strings attached, other than a regular monthly payment goes in, i.e a pension. So not everything has serious strings attached


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## canaca

Stravinsky said:


> Thats wierd because my bank just changed me from a fee paying account to a free non fee paying account, and they pay me 3% of my utility bills that go out on d/d from the account. No strings attached, other than a regular monthly payment goes in, i.e a pension. So not everything has serious strings attached


Hi stravinsky, by the offer you quoted, i assume you are with solbank/sabadell. They do offer a free account, but try leaving that account in arrears for a few days and see how much they stick to you, like anything else, some are better than others, but in the long run, though they do get their money from you somehow! At the very least they are ensuring a monthly "ingreso" in your account, what happens if you dont pay money in for a month or two? Thats gotta be in the clauses somewhere! 

Solbank, although they dont charge commisions, they do charge a "maintenance" fee of, if im not mistaken, about 22 euros every quarter? I might be wrong on the figures, but in the end, every account gives money to the bankers one way or another.

Just a little story to close;
When i was ten, my uncle deposited 20 pounds in an account for my birthday and presented me with the bankbook, as the years went by i forgot about it and it must have been about 15 years later that i found the book, went into the bank and asked about my deposit! Imagine my surprise when they told me that my 20 pounds was there and it had even earned a few pounds interest in that time. These days you deposit 20 pounds, go back in 4 months time and you would actually owe the bank money for maintenance etc.


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## thrax

I hate banks. I especially hate Lloyds, particularly as they continue to pay huge bonuses in spite of the fact they were one of the banks that caused the credit crunch.


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## Alcalaina

thrax said:


> I hate banks. I especially hate Lloyds, particularly as they continue to pay huge bonuses in spite of the fact they were one of the banks that caused the credit crunch.


Me too. But it appears they love me so much they don't want me to leave. 

They have just renewed our fixed term deposit for a further year (at a derisory interest rate) without our consent - apparently it renews automatically unless you instruct them otherwise. I have had lots of fixed term deposits in the past and always, always received requests for completion instructions.

Nowhere on their website can I find reference to this, nor their transfer charges. Just some waffle about "transparency". Bah!


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## Stravinsky

canaca said:


> Hi stravinsky, by the offer you quoted, i assume you are with solbank/sabadell. They do offer a free account, but try leaving that account in arrears for a few days and see how much they stick to you, like anything else, some are better than others, but in the long run, though they do get their money from you somehow! At the very least they are ensuring a monthly "ingreso" in your account, what happens if you dont pay money in for a month or two? Thats gotta be in the clauses somewhere!
> 
> Solbank, although they dont charge commisions, they do charge a "maintenance" fee of, if im not mistaken, about 22 euros every quarter? I might be wrong on the figures, but in the end, every account gives money to the bankers one way or another.


Yes, you are wrong ....... they dont charge a maintenance fee ... as I said, it is free and they also pay you 3% of your utility bills back into your account. I dont go overdrawn as I dont have an overdraft facility ... however if you go overdrawn without a faciulity then of course you will be stung, just like the UK.

I already pay a monthly ingreso into the bank as I need money to live (Its the wifes pension) , and so really its not a problem. Seems to me you are looking for a negative in there somewhere, but there aint one I'm afraid.

I get no maintenance charge
no charge for credit cards
No charge at Telebanco cash points
No charge or commissions for transferring money in or out 

I used to pay €22 a quarter and €17 for the cards a year, but now I dont .. they pay me


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## malagaman2005

Stravinsky said:


> Thats wierd because my bank just changed me from a fee paying account to a free non fee paying account, and they pay me 3% of my utility bills that go out on d/d from the account. No strings attached, other than a regular monthly payment goes in, i.e a pension. So not everything has serious strings attached


That's interesting, I'm guessing it's Solbank? They have offered me this option as well but the catch was that I had to take out either their buildings or contents insurance which doesn't appear on the bumf they sent me. I told them I simply couldn't find the 300+ euros for the premium and was met with a shrug of the shoulders.


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## Stravinsky

malagaman2005 said:


> That's interesting, I'm guessing it's Solbank? They have offered me this option as well but the catch was that I had to take out either their buildings or contents insurance which doesn't appear on the bumf they sent me. I told them I simply couldn't find the 300+ euros for the premium and was met with a shrug of the shoulders.


I guess, as usual, it's down to the branch as with any bank. This all happened because I emailed them about the charges I was receiving (you've got to try havent you). They then contacted me and suggested this account.

I'm guessing it saved me about €100 a year, and potentially I could get back €200 a year in "credits" for utility bills paid by d/d. I also dont pay any commission on telebanco card machine withdrawals, whereas I did pay (I think) 2% before. I must admit I already have an insurance through them, so maybe that was an issue as well.


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## Alcalaina

The _cajas_ do seem to have a lot more flexibility than the big banks, with services and offers at the discretion of the manager rather than everything being set down by Head Office.

Now that some of them are relaunching themselves as banks (CaixaBank, Bankia etc) I wonder if they will lose that?

It's a bit like when the old building societies de-mutualised in the UK, after a while they were just swallowed up by the big boys.


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## malagaman2005

"I'm guessing it saved me about €100 a year, and potentially I could get back €200 a year in "credits" for utility bills paid by d/d. I also dont pay any commission on telebanco card machine withdrawals, whereas I did pay (I think) 2% before. I must admit I already have an insurance through them, so maybe that was an issue as well"


I think you've just clarified why you were given it, thanks


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## pcollins

This thread might be a bit of a lifesaver for me - fingers crossed! I left Spain several years ago and stupidly didn't close down my bank account - I thought it was left with just a few Euros in it as I only ever had one payment coming out, which was cancelled when I moved. That can't have been the case as I've now been passed a letter telling me I owe 1800Euros!!  This can only be attributable to about four years of overdraft fees, and it came as a hell of a shock. 

I've already emailed and asked them for a complete breakdown of charges and fees, and then came across this letter template - I hope it might be of some use to me. I can't see how they can justify that it's cost them 1800Euros.....  Otherwise I don't know what to do - I certainly can't afford 1800Euros, that's for sure...


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## barca

Alcalaina said:


> Thanks Canaca - very enlightening!
> 
> I am still smarting from a series of nasty tricks played on me by Lloyds Bank International (formerly Halifax Hispania, who were great). Having finally decided to dump them and start a new account somewhere else, I now discover that they are charging me €75 to transfer the money to my new account using their "free" internet banking service!!!
> 
> Bunch of evil scheming villains, the lot of 'em. Legalised robbery - ironic considering that people originally started putting their money in banks because they thought it would be safe from theft. Now they just help themselves to your cash whenever they feel like it.


Alcalaina - I transferred banks last year and was told there was no charge to transfer the money from my old bank account to my new one. Obviously I was surprised by this (surely a lost opportunity!) and was told that if you close a bank account and open a new one the banks are not allowed to charge for the transfer of funds - so might be worth going back to them. Best of luck.


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## Alcalaina

barca said:


> Alcalaina - I transferred banks last year and was told there was no charge to transfer the money from my old bank account to my new one. Obviously I was surprised by this (surely a lost opportunity!) and was told that if you close a bank account and open a new one the banks are not allowed to charge for the transfer of funds - so might be worth going back to them. Best of luck.


Thanks. I did go back and challenge it and it took four emails before they would send me a list of their charges (none of the links on their website work; I wonder why?) 

And there it was on page 9 - 1.5% for an online transfer to a bank in the holder's name which is not a member of the Lloyds group. How could I have missed that?!


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## Monkey Hangers

*Banks*

So as an ex banker who is moving to Spain on Monday and needs an account as soon as I get my NIE, who would you recommend? We will be making regular transfers into the account from our UK account to cover our expenses. I understand free banking doesn't really exist like in the UK and I've just had the most awful experience with Barclays. I won't be using them under any circumstances and I used to work for them!
We will be in Murcia.


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## barca

Monkey Hangers said:


> So as an ex banker who is moving to Spain on Monday and needs an account as soon as I get my NIE, who would you recommend? We will be making regular transfers into the account from our UK account to cover our expenses. I understand free banking doesn't really exist like in the UK and I've just had the most awful experience with Barclays. I won't be using them under any circumstances and I used to work for them!
> We will be in Murcia.


I think they are all much of a muchness and if you think they're bad in the UK wait till you get here :faint: 
They charge for everything and anything so be warned. My only real advice would be to go for one of the larger ones and with lots of branches, here in Catalunya it's La Caixa but can't help with Murcia I'm afraid (although I'm sure others will advise). I say one of the larger names because it helps sometimes in paying bills. Good luck and welcome.


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## Alcalaina

Monkey Hangers said:


> So as an ex banker who is moving to Spain on Monday and needs an account as soon as I get my NIE, who would you recommend? We will be making regular transfers into the account from our UK account to cover our expenses. I understand free banking doesn't really exist like in the UK and I've just had the most awful experience with Barclays. I won't be using them under any circumstances and I used to work for them!
> We will be in Murcia.


There are La Caixa branches all over Spain (it is now CaixaBank) and it is one of the safest Spanish banks according to those cursed rating agencies. We've just moved there from Lloyds International, who are too seedy for words. 

The only charges we have to pay are 36 cents a month for statements. Our debit cards are free in year one but will be charged for next year (28€ for two, I think). 

But the main reason we went there is that they give us 3% on our savings.

As for transferring money from the UK, it's best to use an intermediary FX company rather than a direct transfer; you get far better exchange rates. Avoid any bank promising a "free transfer", their exchange rates are not much more than the tourist rate.


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## Monkey Hangers

Alcalaina said:


> There are La Caixa branches all over Spain (it is now CaixaBank) and it is one of the safest Spanish banks according to those cursed rating agencies. We've just moved there from Lloyds International, who are too seedy for words.
> 
> The only charges we have to pay are 36 cents a month for statements. Our debit cards are free in year one but will be charged for next year (28€ for two, I think).
> 
> But the main reason we went there is that they give us 3% on our savings.
> 
> As for transferring money from the UK, it's best to use an intermediary FX company rather than a direct transfer; you get far better exchange rates. Avoid any bank promising a "free transfer", their exchange rates are not much more than the tourist rate.


Oooh thanks for that, I'll check if there's one in El Algar. I was expecting a monthly fee of around 7 Euros, so 28 for debit cards is a good deal, interest rate on savings is pretty wow too! Thank you again.:clap2:


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## jamtart98

*Bank Overdraft Charges*



canaca said:


> Hi all, I'm new to the forum but have lived here in Spain for about 16 years. I thought id share some useful information with those of you who might not understand the language very well and who might not be aware of a "scam" that most if not all banks are taking advantage of to milk both foreigners and natives alike of hundreds of thousands of Euros every month.
> In these times of crisis, jobs are pretty scarce, money is scarcer still and as you all know, the banks charge money for accounts that are overdrawn at the start of each month. If, for instance, Telefonica, pass their bill on the first of the month, and you dont get paid until the fifth, the bank will pay Telefonica, leave your account with a negative balance and after 3-5 days, if your account is still not regulated, charge a commision under the concept "GASTOS RECLAMACION SALDO DEUDOR". The "comission" is normally about 30 euros.
> 
> What the banks dont tell you is that the concept "gastos" which means "cost of" was created in its day, to cover charges incurred by the bank, while trying to recuperate your negative balance. Meaning that if the bank had to send a registered letter, send a "burofax" or indeed physically send a debt collector to your house, they would charge you for the amount that it cost them to get your negative balance sorted.
> 
> These days, some banks might send you an Email, or a text message or even a letter letting you know that your acount is in the red, this however does not in any way justify the 30 plus euros charge. It has been deemed completely illegal.
> 
> The banks automatically charge you the 30 odd euros regardless of whether they are out of pocket or not.
> 
> The key to this whole idea is that the banks have to justify every cent of the amount that they charge you. If you were to fill out an official complaint, the bank would have to show, in full detail, just what the 30 odd euros was charged for, if they cant show this to the assesors, they will be sanctioned. The idea of this post, is to get the banks to give the money back, without having to take the matter that far, the last thing they want is to have an inspection on their hands. They know what they are doing is illegal, but as long as no-one complains, they keep on doing it.
> 
> In my case, i always get paid on or after the fifth of each month. The water, electricity telephone bill etc, are charged on the 31st or the 1st of the month, and i dont always have enough to cover the cost before i get paid. Up until now i have called the bank, and they always agreed to remove the commision without any fuss.
> 
> Last month, given that the banks are feeling the pinch of the crisis, they informed me that the "Gastos reclamacion saldo deudor" could not be removed anymore, that their central bank "wont let them" give the amount back.
> 
> I went online and found all the legal clauses that stipulate the illegality of this concept, I drafted a letter, brought it to my bank (two copies) asked them to sign one of them and put the date on, the manager, once he had read the letter, admitted the illegality of the commision, asked me nicely not to further the matter, and said that i would never again be charged for the same. I agreed and fifteen minutes later i had the 36,50€ back in my account.
> 
> I will post a copy of my letter here, and leave blanks that you can fill in with your own names N.I.E numbers, and amounts charged.
> 
> I would like to stress that this letter is only for use with "overdrawn charges" and wont work for debit or credit card commision, etc. While those comissions are for the most part abusive, they are not, unfortunately, illegal.
> If you have any doubts as to what charges it could be used for, drop me a line and ill help in whatever way i can.
> 
> If you want to read it in English, you can copy and paste in any online translator, though as most of you know, the online translators are not 100% foolproof and it will come out a bit "gobbledy gookey"!
> 
> 
> Here goes the letter:
> 
> *Estimados señores.
> 
> Escribo esta carta al objeto de reclamar la devolución de la siguiente comisión cobrada indebidamente y que detallo a continuación; Gastos reclamación saldo deudor: cobrados de forma periódica desde la apertura de la cuenta, por diversos importes, siendo el último de (Insert commision amount here) euros.
> 
> Entiendo que dichas comisiones no se corresponden con un servicio efectivamente prestado (norma tercera de la circular 8/1990 del Banco de España) ya que dicho descubierto se regularizaron sin que mediara reclamación alguna por su entidad más allá del cargo en cuenta de los controvertidos “gastos de reclamación".
> 
> En el concepto de los “Gastos de reclamación de saldo deudor”, se entiende que el “gasto” de reclamación de posición deudora será exigible por cada posición deudora y reclamada. Con independencia de otros razonamientos al respecto, les agradecería que me hicieran llegar los comprobantes de las acciones realizadas por la sucursal al objeto de reclamar dicha deuda.
> 
> Aprovecho para recordarles que si dicho gasto no puede ser justificado por su entidad pasaría a considerarse como “comisión”, vulnerando la Ley 7/1995.
> 
> Finalmente, esta comisión puede y debe estar registrada ante el Banco de España, pero eso no significa que esta entidad controle “a priori” su aplicabilidad. En repetidas ocasiones el Banco de España ha dictaminado en contra de la aplicación indebida de comisiones previamente registradas ante el mismo.
> 
> Les agradeceré que me contesten en el plazo de 2 meses estipulado por la normativa del Banco de España, ya que de lo contrario me veré obligado a presentar mi reclamación ante dicha entidad, con las molestias que esto conlleva. Comprendo que la cantidad que reclamo no es muy importante pero no duden que, en el caso de que el dictamen del Banco de España me sea favorable, presentaré una demanda ante el Juzgado de 1ª Instancia de Puerto del Rosario, por lo que considero una mala práctica bancaria y un abuso por parte de su entidad.
> 
> Les comunico que dado mi limitado conocimiento de la normativa bancaria he requerido los servicios de la Asociación para la Defensa de Clientes de Entidades Financieras (ADECEF), cuyos gastos de asesoramiento legal incluiré en la demanda. (En este caso sí se tratará de “gastos” y no de comisiones, ya que verdaderamente se prestará un servicio, en este caso de defensa de los derechos de los consumidores)
> 
> Recibe un cordial saludo,
> 
> (insert your name here)
> N.I.E. (insert your N.I.E here)*


Your information is extremely useful to me as unfortunately due to the economic situation and the exchange rate reducing my pension I have been using an overdraft facility for a number of months and have been stung for these charges on several occasions.
Do you know if under the circumstances you quote i.e. they are illegal, I would be in a position to claim that the charges be back dated?
Thanks again for the useful info.


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## canaca

jamtart98 said:


> Your information is extremely useful to me as unfortunately due to the economic situation and the exchange rate reducing my pension I have been using an overdraft facility for a number of months and have been stung for these charges on several occasions.
> Do you know if under the circumstances you quote i.e. they are illegal, I would be in a position to claim that the charges be back dated?
> Thanks again for the useful info.


Hi there Jamtart,
As far as i know, and from various Spanish websites by Spaniards who have also been whipped with the "charge stick", you can reclaim every single payment that was "wrongfully" charged to your account by your bank. If you owed the bank a penny in 1999 and didn't pay up, that penny would have generated 1000's of euros in "gastos" to date. 
It works the same for customers who have been wrongly charged, if the bank has been "robbing" you for years, not only do you have the right to ask for your money back, but you can also, (quite legally) threaten them with legal action and seek compensation for your loss.
While in a perfect world, compensation should be given, just as the bank penalizes you by charging interest, unfortunately with the Spanish legal system, and the armies of lawyers that the bank employs, compensation might make the whole process of returning your money drag on for years. That said, it wouldn't hurt to express your annoyance or anger at the way the bank treated you, and if you are lucky they might give you a free calender or a keyring for your troubles!!
Seriously though, check your statements for all of the "gastos charged, ONLY THE ONES THAT APPLIED TO OVERDRAFT CHARGES, add them up, fill in the blanks with the amount, present it to your bank manager, ( if you don't speak Spanish very well or not at all, I would recommend bringing a lawyer or an accountant or at the very least a friend who could explain your ire to the manager to its full extent!) Managers tend to "fob off" foreigners who present letters in Spanish but dont really know what the letter says. 
Best of luck and I am delighted that my post might help at least one person, as I said, it got around 70€ total returned to me that was wrongfully charged, plus an apology from the bank manager, the same manager who had told me sternly a few days before that under no circumstances could the money be returned!
Come to think of it, I never got my free calendar!!!


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## jamtart98

canaca said:


> Hi there Jamtart,
> As far as i know, and from various Spanish websites by Spaniards who have also been whipped with the "charge stick", you can reclaim every single payment that was "wrongfully" charged to your account by your bank. If you owed the bank a penny in 1999 and didn't pay up, that penny would have generated 1000's of euros in "gastos" to date.
> It works the same for customers who have been wrongly charged, if the bank has been "robbing" you for years, not only do you have the right to ask for your money back, but you can also, (quite legally) threaten them with legal action and seek compensation for your loss.
> While in a perfect world, compensation should be given, just as the bank penalizes you by charging interest, unfortunately with the Spanish legal system, and the armies of lawyers that the bank employs, compensation might make the whole process of returning your money drag on for years. That said, it wouldn't hurt to express your annoyance or anger at the way the bank treated you, and if you are lucky they might give you a free calender or a keyring for your troubles!!
> Seriously though, check your statements for all of the "gastos charged, ONLY THE ONES THAT APPLIED TO OVERDRAFT CHARGES, add them up, fill in the blanks with the amount, present it to your bank manager, ( if you don't speak Spanish very well or not at all, I would recommend bringing a lawyer or an accountant or at the very least a friend who could explain your ire to the manager to its full extent!) Managers tend to "fob off" foreigners who present letters in Spanish but dont really know what the letter says.
> Best of luck and I am delighted that my post might help at least one person, as I said, it got around 70€ total returned to me that was wrongfully charged, plus an apology from the bank manager, the same manager who had told me sternly a few days before that under no circumstances could the money be returned!
> Come to think of it, I never got my free calendar!!!


Thanks Very Much again Canaca. This really is very helpful and I will prepare my claim to be presented to the Bank next week. Offhand I should be claiming around 90 euros.
I will either post a thread or try to let you know via your page how I get on.
Cheers


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## canaca

Hi again, I would just like to add that in my original posting of the letter, i forgot to state that the juzgados, (courthouse)must also be changed to your own, In my case its the Juzgado de 1ª Instancia de Puerto del Rosario. Just add in your local courthouse where the name is on the letter:


Les agradeceré que me contesten en el plazo de 2 meses estipulado por la normativa del Banco de España, ya que de lo contrario me veré obligado a presentar mi reclamación ante dicha entidad, con las molestias que esto conlleva. Comprendo que la cantidad que reclamo no es muy importante pero no duden que, en el caso de que el dictamen del Banco de España me sea favorable, presentaré una demanda ante el Juzgado de 1ª Instancia de Puerto del Rosario, por lo que considero una mala práctica bancaria y un abuso por parte de su entidad.


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## jamtart98

*Bank Overdraft Charges*



canaca said:


> Hi again, I would just like to add that in my original posting of the letter, i forgot to state that the juzgados, (courthouse)must also be changed to your own, In my case its the Juzgado de 1ª Instancia de Puerto del Rosario. Just add in your local courthouse where the name is on the letter:
> 
> 
> Les agradeceré que me contesten en el plazo de 2 meses estipulado por la normativa del Banco de España, ya que de lo contrario me veré obligado a presentar mi reclamación ante dicha entidad, con las molestias que esto conlleva. Comprendo que la cantidad que reclamo no es muy importante pero no duden que, en el caso de que el dictamen del Banco de España me sea favorable, presentaré una demanda ante el Juzgado de 1ª Instancia de Puerto del Rosario, por lo que considero una mala práctica bancaria y un abuso por parte de su entidad.


Thanks for that Canaca I did actually change it. My letter is actually on the managers desk at the moment as he is on holiday and returns next week but the lady clerk seemed to think I would be succesful so fingers crossed.
I,ll let you know the outcome.


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## canaca

jamtart98 said:


> Thanks for that Canaca I did actually change it. My letter is actually on the managers desk at the moment as he is on holiday and returns next week but the lady clerk seemed to think I would be succesful so fingers crossed.
> I,ll let you know the outcome.


Thats great!! I hope it works out. The name's Barry by the way! Canaca is my "forum cover"!! 

Anyway, let me know how you get on and spread the word! We might help loads of expats and natives alike from being ripped off by the banks!


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## canaca

Well don't leave us hanging Jamtart98!! How did you get on in the end?


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## jamtart98

*Bank Charges*



canaca said:


> Well don't leave us hanging Jamtart98!! How did you get on in the end?


Hi Barry,
Many apologies for not contacting you before this.

Yes I managed to get 60 euros back from them!!! (For the last two charges of 30 euros each).
The manager hummed and hawed a bit and gave me "I doubt Head Office will sanction this but I will send your claim to them and advise you of what they say".
I told him I had been involved with "correspondence" with them previously and had no confidence in their administration so I asked him to give me the name of who would deal with my claim at Head Office and I would telephone them personally.
This took him by surprise and he then said to leave it with him and he would telephone for an answer.
The following day I received a telepohne call from on of the clerks I know to go in and see them. I know the lady clerk and she told me "the manager was busy" but said he told her to credit 60 euros to my account!!! Result!!! 
As I got up to leave she smiled and whispered "well done"!!!.

So Thank You so much again for your advice which was extremely valuable.

All the Best,

Ronnie Jamtart.


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## canaca

jamtart98 said:


> Hi Barry,
> Many apologies for not contacting you before this.
> 
> Yes I managed to get 60 euros back from them!!! (For the last two charges of 30 euros each).
> The manager hummed and hawed a bit and gave me "I doubt Head Office will sanction this but I will send your claim to them and advise you of what they say".
> I told him I had been involved with "correspondence" with them previously and had no confidence in their administration so I asked him to give me the name of who would deal with my claim at Head Office and I would telephone them personally.
> This took him by surprise and he then said to leave it with him and he would telephone for an answer.
> The following day I received a telepohne call from on of the clerks I know to go in and see them. I know the lady clerk and she told me "the manager was busy" but said he told her to credit 60 euros to my account!!! Result!!!
> As I got up to leave she smiled and whispered "well done"!!!.
> 
> So Thank You so much again for your advice which was extremely valuable.
> 
> All the Best,
> 
> Ronnie Jamtart.


Delighted to have helped Ronnie!! That 60 quid is better off in your pocket than the banks. I believe that you mentioned before that the bank owes you much more than 60€, if thats so, then the partial return was a "lets see if he goes away" tactic. Used many times in banks and insurance claims alike! You still have options, next time you see the manager, thank him for the return and ask him if the rest of the money has been calculated and when will it be deposited in your account. If you want to leave things the way they are, so be it, but I, personally, would fight for the last cent to be returned. The fact that they returned two months "gastos" means that they recognise that the money was charged in the wrong, why should they keep the money from other months?
If you worked for the bank, and they found out that you were pocketing 30 euros of their money every month for a year, do you think that they would settle for you returning the money stolen for the last two months and leave it at that? No Sir, they would make sure that they got the whole amount back and they would prosecute you into the bargain. Don't forget, and this is for everyone that is reading this, not just Ronnie;

*The bank has knowingly robbed you, they have stolen money under the concept "gastos". they know and admit that this is illegal. If you catch them in the act of this theft, they will shuffle their feet and give it back (brings to mind the image of a young lad stealing chocolate from the grocery only to be caught red handed by the owner!!) If you dont catch them, they will pocket the cash and clap each other on the back for a scam well executed.*

Just this morning i spoke with a bank manager from one of my banks on this subject, after being charged said commision. She said that her bank knows that the charge is illegal which is why they always give it back as soon as a customer complains. I asked her if then she was admitting that the bank was "stealing" from customers in the hope that they didn't get caught? It's exactly what it boils down to. Anyway, if everybody tries to post the original message from this post in as many forums and newsletters as possible, we might just make a difference and stop at least one of the banks money sucking schemes in its tracks.

Spread the word, sticky this post in order to help others!!


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## mattfinlay

F.A.O. ANYONE WHO CAN HELP!!! ...

Thanks for this letter template...my account went overdrawn because i used debit card transactions on holiday 2 weeks ago and when the amounts came off a week later, i went overdrawn by 35 euros and got the reclamacion charge of 35 euros on my account a few days later....can i still send them this letter because i got overdrawn through using my debit card as oppose to a direct debit? Or am I to remain 70 euros poorer...


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## canaca

mattfinlay said:


> F.A.O. ANYONE WHO CAN HELP!!! ...
> 
> Thanks for this letter template...my account went overdrawn because i used debit card transactions on holiday 2 weeks ago and when the amounts came off a week later, i went overdrawn by 35 euros and got the reclamacion charge of 35 euros on my account a few days later....can i still send them this letter because i got overdrawn through using my debit card as oppose to a direct debit? Or am I to remain 70 euros poorer...


Hi Matt, As i said on the main post, any and all charges with the concept "gastos" can be reclaimed from the bank given that they are claiming gastos (costs) that have not been suffered by them. From the amount you specified it seems to be the infamous gastos that they are charging you for. Copy the letter in Office word, fill in your details and hand it in to the bank. They might try to fob you off, they might tell you that you signed a contract agreeing to overdraft charges etc., but don't let them fool you. Those charges are 100% illegal and yes, you are entitled to your 70€ back!!

Threatening them with the consumers rights will almost definately bring them to their senses!! Dont forget to post back and let us know how you got on.

Barry


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## canaca

pcollins said:


> This thread might be a bit of a lifesaver for me - fingers crossed! I left Spain several years ago and stupidly didn't close down my bank account - I thought it was left with just a few Euros in it as I only ever had one payment coming out, which was cancelled when I moved. That can't have been the case as I've now been passed a letter telling me I owe 1800Euros!!  This can only be attributable to about four years of overdraft fees, and it came as a hell of a shock.
> 
> I've already emailed and asked them for a complete breakdown of charges and fees, and then came across this letter template - I hope it might be of some use to me. I can't see how they can justify that it's cost them 1800Euros.....  Otherwise I don't know what to do - I certainly can't afford 1800Euros, that's for sure...


How did you get on in the end? I always find it amazing how a bank can create an overdraft and then add and add and add charges without apparent limits! It's like someone breaking a window in their own house and then complaining about the cold and rain getting through!
Would you mind me asking which bank you were with?


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## trevorb

canaca said:


> Hi all, I'm new to the forum but have lived here in Spain for about 16 years. I thought id share some useful information with those of you who might not understand the language very well and who might not be aware of a "scam" that most if not all banks are taking advantage of to milk both foreigners and natives alike of hundreds of thousands of Euros every month.
> 
> I will post a copy of my letter here, and leave blanks that you can fill in with your own names N.I.E numbers, and amounts charged.
> 
> I would like to stress that this letter is only for use with "overdrawn charges" and wont work for debit or credit card commision, etc. While those comissions are for the most part abusive, they are not, unfortunately, illegal.
> If you have any doubts as to what charges it could be used for, drop me a line and ill help in whatever way i can.


My bank debited an insurance charge from their own insurers for the mortgage we have with them resulting in the account being overdrawn by 17 euros for 7 days.
They then charge 30 euros resulting in the account not meeting the mortgage payments several times in a row and each time they recover the 'debt' on the mortgage they charge another 30 euros on the mortgage account - ultimately debited to the current account.
So far we've paid about 90 euros for being overdrawn by 17 euros for 7 days - I hope it's now sorted but haven't been able to persuade them to refund any of these excessive charges.
I'll try your letter but assume the most I will be able to recover is the one off 30 euros on the current account!!
Trevorb


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