# Non EU nationals becoming residents in Spain



## Pesky Wesky

An article in In Madrid free newspaper states that non EU nationals can become Spanish residents if they prove they are living with a Spanish partner???
Is this true anybody know? Is it new/ old news? Is it likely to continue?
Here's a link to the article. It's on page 11 of the virtual magazine and it's called "To love, cherish and stay"
InMadrid, Madrid's No.1 English Publication


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## Guest

I just did the residency paperwork and seem to remember that you've at least got to be registered as a _pareja de hecho._


Here's the required form: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Model...icitudes2/19-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario.pdf
(Look under #5 and you'll see it says "_pareja registrada_.") 

I imagine one would have to have an interview and "defend" their relationship, answering detailed personal questions ("What type of cologne does your partner use?" etc.) It sure won't be as easy as it sounds.


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> I just did the residency paperwork and seem to remember that you've at least got to be registered as a _pareja de hecho._
> 
> 
> Here's the required form: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Model...icitudes2/19-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario.pdf
> (Look under #5 and you'll see it says "_pareja registrada_.")
> 
> I imagine one would have to have an interview and "defend" their relationship, answering detailed personal questions ("What type of cologne does your partner use?" etc.) It sure won't be as easy as it sounds.


Yes you have to register
No there isn't an interview, at least according to the article, so not like the film green card...

And I quote

"*The process was shockingly simple, especially when bureauocracy here never is"
*


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes you have to register
> No there isn't an interview, at least according to the article, so not like the film green card...
> 
> And I quote
> 
> "*The process was shockingly simple, especially when bureauocracy here never is"
> *


I would be shocked if there was no interview, since for many *marriages* they make you do an interview. It's the same exact residency process for married non-EU nationals as it would be for the civil partnerships (_pareja de hecho_).

Great that the process was shockingly simple for that one person but I simply can't believe it's going to be that simple for all. One of my friends married a Peruvian girl and they've had a right headache. Then, there's another friend who is on his second Colombian wife and can't even bring her to Spain. Both are non-EU nationals - think they'd let them just do a _pareja de hecho_?


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> I would be shocked if there was no interview, since for many *marriages* they make you do an interview. It's the same exact residency process for married non-EU nationals as it would be for the civil partnerships (_pareja de hecho_).
> 
> Great that the process was shockingly simple for that one person but I simply can't believe it's going to be that simple for all. One of my friends married a Peruvian girl and they've had a right headache. Then, there's another friend who is on his second Colombian wife and can't even bring her to Spain. Both are non-EU nationals - think they'd let them just do a _pareja de hecho_?


What *I* think is it's probably one of those things that changes depending on where in Spain you do it, which civil servant you deal with, what day of the week it is and what you had for breakfast.
I posted the article because it says it was an unbelievably easy process for the writer and it worked for her/ him and if I was an American trying to get to Spain I would find that pretty interesting. On the other hand, it's just an article in a magazine.
You think it's difficult. The person in the article doesn't. Is that the difference between Madrid / País Vasco? Is the article not giving the correct picture or did you not eat the correct breakfast the day you made enquiries?


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> What *I* think is it's probably one of those things that changes depending on where in Spain you do it, which civil servant you deal with, what day of the week it is and what you had for breakfast.
> I posted the article because it says it was an unbelievably easy process for the writer and it worked for her/ him and if I was an American trying to get to Spain I would find that pretty interesting. On the other hand, it's just an article in a magazine.
> You think it's difficult. The person in the article doesn't. Is that the difference between Madrid / País Vasco? Is the article not giving the correct picture or did you not eat the correct breakfast the day you made enquiries?


You're right. As always, _extranjería_ depends on who you're dealing with and who accompanies you to the office. I get treated differently when I go with OH than when I go alone. 

Thank you for posting the article. It's definitely an interesting change that could benefit a great number of Non-EU nationals living in Spain. 

Personally, I had absolutely no problems getting the residency. However, I fully realize that I was very lucky. It's not a Madrid/Pais Vasco thing. Out of all the non-EU national/Spanish marriages in our circle of friends (there's four of us), I'm the only one who didn't have issues. I was fully expecting an interview because the only other American I know here and her husband were interviewed about personal information in separate rooms. That was at least three years ago - it sure seems like things have become a lot stricter in the past few years!


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## sp1j

When we moved to Spain my American wife became a resident. There are certain things to take with you, but getting an appointment and the whole process is shockingly easy. They didn't even ask us one question!


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## xabiaxica

sp1j said:


> When we moved to Spain my American wife became a resident. There are certain things to take with you, but getting an appointment and the whole process is shockingly easy. They didn't even ask us one question!


could you give us a bit more info?

I'm sure lots would be interested in a first hand account of the process!


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## Guest

It's the same for any non-EU national spouse of a EU citizen (be they Spanish, British, German, etc.) 

*This information was current in November 2011.*
The information sheet is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/InformacionInteres/InformacionProcedimientos/documentos2/103.pdf

The application form is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Model...icitudes2/19-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario.pdf

Briefly translating the required documents, you must bring: 

1. The application and _a copy_ (always bring at least two copies of all this documentation to be safe!) 
2. The original passport and a copy of your *entire* passport. 
3. A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate *or* certificate of being a civil partnership _and copy_. 
4. The original and a copy of the EU-citizen spouse's documentation (If Spanish, their DNI)
5. Three recent photographs "_tamaño carné_" 

* While it's not listed on the info sheet they asked us for an _empadronamiento_ indicating that we had been living together at least one year. 

** If any of the documents (save the passport) are in a foreign language, they need to be legalized (Apostille of the Hague or, if the country is not a signer, other legalization) and translated into Spanish.




Check and see if you can get an appointment online at: https://sede.mpt.gob.es/icpplus/citar
If not, you need to go to the office and wait in line. In Bilbao, this is at least a two day process. The first day you wait in line for them to give you an appointment (No, they don't tend to let you choose what day your appointment is). Then, you go back for your appointment and submit your documents. They'll inform you by phone or letter when you need to come back to complete the process, be it for an interview or simply taking your finger prints and paying the fee. 

I have an American acquaintance in Madrid who just got married and wasn't able to get an appointment any earlier than November 2012. The wait time will all depend on where you are and how busy the offices are. 

The non-EU national must apply for this documentation or at least an appointment within three months of arriving in Spain (or getting married).


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## xabiaxica

I have added a link to this thread to the 'useful inks' sticky so that we can find it again if we need it


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> It's the same for any non-EU national spouse of a EU citizen (be they Spanish, British, German, etc.)
> 
> *This information was current in November 2011.*
> The information sheet is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/InformacionInteres/InformacionProcedimientos/documentos2/103.pdf
> 
> The application form is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Model...icitudes2/19-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario.pdf
> 
> Briefly translating the required documents, you must bring:
> 
> 1. The application and _a copy_ (always bring at least two copies of all this documentation to be safe!)
> 2. The original passport and a copy of your *entire* passport.
> 3. A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate *or* certificate of being a civil partnership _and copy_.
> 4. The original and a copy of the EU-citizen spouse's documentation (If Spanish, their DNI)
> 5. Three recent photographs "_tamaño carné_"
> 
> * While it's not listed on the info sheet they asked us for an _empadronamiento_ indicating that we had been living together at least one year.
> 
> ** If any of the documents (save the passport) are in a foreign language, they need to be legalized (Apostille of the Hague or, if the country is not a signer, other legalization) and translated into Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check and see if you can get an appointment online at: https://sede.mpt.gob.es/icpplus/citar
> If not, you need to go to the office and wait in line. In Bilbao, this is at least a two day process. The first day you wait in line for them to give you an appointment (No, they don't tend to let you choose what day your appointment is). Then, you go back for your appointment and submit your documents. They'll inform you by phone or letter when you need to come back to complete the process, be it for an interview or simply taking your finger prints and paying the fee.
> 
> I have an American acquaintance in Madrid who just got married and wasn't able to get an appointment any earlier than November 2012. The wait time will all depend on where you are and how busy the offices are.
> 
> The non-EU national must apply for this documentation or at least an appointment within three months of arriving in Spain (or getting married).


I think this procedure has always been clear, if long and annoying to say the least!
The information that some people might not have known was that living with a *Spanish* national, and having that _*officially*_ recognised, was a way towards getting a *5 year residency visa* for a non EU national. And if you have that you can work legally wherever you want (or can might be more appropriate).Also, it seems that this is a fairly simple and quick procedure and that is what has surprised some of us. 
What you have to do to become an official couple (pareja de hecho) is outlined in the article in post one.


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## Grimace

I recently went through the process of becoming a "pareja de hecho" with my Spanish girlfriend in Madrid. It was unbelievably simple by Spanish standards. 

Let me tell you that not all town halls in Spain will require the same of you, so what's officially required may depend on where you try your luck. By going through the town hall in Rivas, Madrid, which has its own requirements and criteria, I was able to begin the process of application for residency in mid-September and picked up my NIE card on December 5th, though this is exceptionally fast as my girlfriend knows someone in the immigration department where they process your documents. Without that connection we probably would have been waiting until June. There was no interview or any suspicious questions.

My tourist visa had expired months before we even realized (through sheer luck by talking to a friend with a foreign partner) that this process was possible, as we were originally going to get married, but the various documents, stamps and translations required were a veritable pain in the rear, so we were putting it off. It was actually a close call at a bus station one night where the police asked for everyone's papers who was next to me (from South America), but not for mine as I'm European that prompted us to bite the bullet and I'm definitely glad we discovered this easy way to get my residency. 

Take advantage of this process because who knows how long it'll last.


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## Burriana Babs

My residency expires in 2013 what do I have to do to renew it? By the way the original process was very simple as I used a gestor to take care of it for me. It did cost me about 300 Euros but worth every penny. I am American married to a Brit.


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## Pesky Wesky

Grimace said:


> I recently went through the process of becoming a "pareja de hecho" with my Spanish girlfriend in Madrid. It was unbelievably simple by Spanish standards.
> 
> Let me tell you that not all town halls in Spain will require the same of you, so what's officially required may depend on where you try your luck. By going through the town hall in Rivas, Madrid, which has its own requirements and criteria, I was able to begin the process of application for residency in mid-September and picked up my NIE card on December 5th, though this is exceptionally fast as my girlfriend knows someone in the immigration department where they process your documents. Without that connection we probably would have been waiting until June. There was no interview or any suspicious questions.
> 
> My tourist visa had expired months before we even realized (through sheer luck by talking to a friend with a foreign partner) that this process was possible, as we were originally going to get married, but the various documents, stamps and translations required were a veritable pain in the rear, so we were putting it off. It was actually a close call at a bus station one night where the police asked for everyone's papers who was next to me (from South America), but not for mine as I'm European that prompted us to bite the bullet and I'm definitely glad we discovered this easy way to get my residency.
> 
> Take advantage of this process because who knows how long it'll last.


Rivas is quite well known for being modern and trendy - ahead of many other places in Spain.
However, I'm not saying that you won't get it done in other parts of Spain. You might well be pleasantly surprised


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## Grimace

Pesky Wesky said:


> Rivas is quite well known for being modern and trendy - ahead of many other places in Spain.
> However, I'm not saying that you won't get it done in other parts of Spain. You might well be pleasantly surprised


Indeed. As I understand it, something about the town hall being under the control of Izquierda Unida instead of the other two main political parties is the reason why they are able to maintain relative autonomy in many of their official procedures.

It's funny because I became _empadronado_ in Rivas at a friend's address minutes before I handed in all the documents necessary to apply for residency through my partner, so I think it was pretty obvious that I had never lived there for a single day. Gotta love the lax attitudes here.

On the other hand there are inspectors out there looking for people who have used the same system of false _empadronamiento_ to get their kids into certain schools, so it's not all live and let live. It's just when something gets a little too exploited they start to clamp down on it.


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## Pesky Wesky

Grimace;693985
On the other hand there are inspectors out there looking for people who have used the same system of false [I said:


> empadronamiento[/I] to get their kids into certain schools, so it's not all live and let live. It's just when something gets a little too exploited they start to clamp down on it.


Yes, I think that's it.


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## joshjadavies

Pesky Wesky said:


> You're right. I was going to say that, but I forgot by the time I'd actually written the post.
> Here's the thread
> 
> Night everyone! Will be woken up at 6:00 by OH bashing round getting off to work


Thanks a lot guys, I do live with my girlfriend who has a UK passport however we are not married. After reading the link you provided it looks like you need to be married or am I mistaken?
In Canada we have something called Common Law for 2 people who live together but I don't know if that exists in the EU or Spain.

Thanks


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## joshjadavies

Is there anything like this if you are living with a UK national but you aren't married?


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## joshjadavies

joshjadavies said:


> Thanks a lot guys, I do live with my girlfriend who has a UK passport however we are not married. After reading the link you provided it looks like you need to be married or am I mistaken?
> In Canada we have something called Common Law for 2 people who live together but I don't know if that exists in the EU or Spain.
> 
> Thanks


Sorry I read a little too quickly I see in one fo the posts it says: "A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate or certificate of being a civil partnership and copy. "

How do you prove a civil partnership in spain? Also what does my girlfriend need to do as she's not actually from Spain but from the UK.

Thanks again


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## joshjadavies

joshjadavies said:


> Is there anything like this if you are living with a UK national but you aren't married?


Sorry I read a little too quickly I see in one fo the posts it says: "A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate or certificate of being a civil partnership and copy. "

How do you prove a civil partnership in spain? Also what does my girlfriend need to do as she's not actually from Spain but from the UK.

Thanks


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## Burriana Babs

My Spanish residency certificate/card expires in 2013, what do I have to do to renew it? Any help would be appreciated.


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## xabiaxica

Burriana Babs said:


> My Spanish residency certificate/card expires in 2013, what do I have to do to renew it? Any help would be appreciated.


you go back to the _oficina de extranjeros_ & re-apply..........are you a non-EU national? I'm not sure how complicated or straightforward a process that would be :confused2:


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## Guest

xabiachica said:


> you go back to the _oficina de extranjeros_ & re-apply..........are you a non-EU national? I'm not sure how complicated or straightforward a process that would be :confused2:


It's beyond easy... if you're an EU national.


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## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> It's beyond easy... if you're an EU national.


that I do know 

but this is the non-EU thread & Babs doesn't have any flags flying to give us a clue


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## Pesky Wesky

joshjadavies said:


> Sorry I read a little too quickly I see in one fo the posts it says: "A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate or certificate of being a civil partnership and copy. "
> 
> How do you prove a civil partnership in spain? Also what does my girlfriend need to do as she's not actually from Spain but from the UK.
> 
> Thanks again


Sorry, the link in the thread about residency is no longer valid. You need to go here and 
Issuu - inmadrid's Profile
click on the December issue. It's page 11 and the article there is called to "love, cherish and to stay". That's where you have the info about what you need to register as a "pareja de hecho", a civil partnership


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## Pesky Wesky

Sorry, the link is no longer valid. You need to go here and 
Issuu - inmadrid's Profile
click on the December issue. It's page 11 and the article there is called to "love, cherish and to stay". That's where you have the info about what you need to register as a "pareja de hecho", a civil partnership

Can the mods change post one????


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## joshjadavies

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sorry, the link in the thread about residency is no longer valid. You need to go here and
> Issuu - inmadrid's Profile
> click on the December issue. It's page 11 and the article there is called to "love, cherish and to stay". That's where you have the info about what you need to register as a "pareja de hecho", a civil partnership


This article talks about foreigners in a civil relationship with Spaniards, does it work the same if my girlfriend has a UK passport but we are moving to Spain?

Thanks


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## Pesky Wesky

joshjadavies said:


> This article talks about foreigners in a civil relationship with Spaniards, does it work the same if my girlfriend has a UK passport but we are moving to Spain?
> 
> Thanks


I don't know any more about it other than what's in the article. I suggest getting in touch with these guys
The British Embassy in Spain


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## Brangus

halydia said:


> This would be a clear case that could take advantage of the Civil Partnership register you mentioned last month, especially since OP's OH is a UK citizen. That could give OP a "ticket" to work.


Does the "pareja de hecho" route allow the non-EU partner to work legally? Or does it establish legal residence only?


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## Brangus

Burriana Babs said:


> I am American married to a Brit.


Well, I'm an American married to a non-EU citizen. My initial residency expired last summer, and Extranjeros wouldn't allow me to apply for a new card until the old one expired. That is, if the card expired on Aug. 8, the application could not be submitted until Aug. 9. (This was different from when I was living in another EU country where they encourage you to apply in advance so that you are continuously carrying a valid card.)

My husband had made a phone inquiry for me, since he's a native Spanish speaker, and as I recall Extranjeros would not even schedule the appointment until about a month before the residency expired. More than a month in advance was "too early" to be bothering them. I suppose that may vary depending on the office you're dealing with and the time of year.

After I applied for the new card, it wasn't ready for about a month. I wanted to travel out of country during that time, but without a valid card I had to apply for a re-entry permit, which took another 10 days or so to receive.

Hope that helps!


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## Grimace

Brangus said:


> Does the "pareja de hecho" route allow the non-EU partner to work legally? Or does it establish legal residence only?


I can confirm that it gives you the same rights as any other legal immigrant to live and seek work in Spain for 5 years and automatic coverage under the public healthcare system.


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## xabiaxica

Grimace said:


> I can confirm that it gives you the same rights as any other legal immigrant to live and seek work in Spain for 5 years and *automatic coverage under the public healthcare system.*


presumably only if your partner also has coverage?


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## Burriana Babs

xabiachica said:


> that I do know
> 
> but this is the non-EU thread & Babs doesn't have any flags flying to give us a clue


I am American, married to a British Citizen nd we both live in Spain and are retired.
Thanksw for any help you may be able to give.


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## Brangus

Grimace said:


> I can confirm that it gives you the same rights as any other legal immigrant to live and seek work in Spain for 5 years and automatic coverage under the public healthcare system.


I have a pink and blue "permiso de residencia" card that on the back side states "No autoriza trabajar." Am I the only legal immigrant in Spain who isn't allowed to work? 

I do get health coverage, though, thanks to hubby.


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## baldilocks

Brangus said:


> I have a pink and blue "permiso de residencia" card that on the back side states "No autoriza trabajar." Am I the only legal immigrant in Spain who isn't allowed to work?
> 
> I do get health coverage, though, thanks to hubby.


You aren't automatically allowed to work because you are not a EU citizen and you are not here on a full working visa. SWMBO although Colombian and American citizen also has British citizenship (= triple citizenship) so is entitled to work. She also gets her healthcare paid for by the UK (as does the suegra a US citizen) as my dependant when she is not actually working (her contracts are for 9 months school year).


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## Grimace

Brangus said:


> I have a pink and blue "permiso de residencia" card that on the back side states "No autoriza trabajar." Am I the only legal immigrant in Spain who isn't allowed to work?
> 
> I do get health coverage, though, thanks to hubby.


All I know is that I'm a non-EU citizen and I got residency through my partner by the _pareja de hecho_ system explained in December's edition of InMadrid. We went through the town hall in Rivas, Madrid and I'm automatically entitled to work here without applying for a work permit separately. 

Yeah, I forgot to mention that you only get automatic healthcare coverage if your partner is already contributing to social security.


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## xabiaxica

Grimace said:


> All I know is that I'm a non-EU citizen and I got residency through my partner by the _pareja de hecho_ system explained in December's edition of InMadrid. We went through the town hall in Rivas, Madrid and I'm automatically entitled to work here without applying for a work permit separately.
> 
> Yeah, I forgot to mention that you only get automatic healthcare coverage if your partner is already contributing to social security.


maybe the rules changed since Brangus got her _permiso_ :confused2:


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## Hnhmontana

*Spain vs. US - leave or stay*



> The non-EU national must apply for this documentation or at least an appointment within three months of arriving in Spain (or getting married).


I'm currently in Spain. My tourist visa runs out at the end of March. If I apply for this documentation now here in Spain and we just get married here in Spain instead of the US in April like planned, will this extend my visa or will I still need to leave for 3 month before I can return?


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## xabiaxica

Hnhmontana said:


> I'm currently in Spain. My tourist visa runs out at the end of March. If I apply for this documentation now here in Spain and we just get married here in Spain instead of the US in April like planned, will this extend my visa or will I still need to leave for 3 month before I can return?


I think it would take longer than that to arrange the marriage - the paperwork is horrendous


you'd be better getting married in the US as planned & then coming back imo - April is only a few weeks away


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## gus-lopez

My neighbours fiancée , who is russian, already has a social security number & health card & they are only just starting the process of doing ' pareja de hecho'.


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## joshjadavies

I am currently in the process of applying for a civil partnership visa in the UK. Once it's approved, can we both live and work in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> I am currently in the process of applying for a civil partnership visa in the UK. Once it's approved, can we both live and work in Spain?


are you or your partner a UK citizen? (or other EU)

a UK citizen has the right to live & work in Spain, and an non-EU spouse or civil partner of an UK citizen does too - but has to apply for residency as such & will then have the same rights



actually _finding _work would be a different matter...........


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## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> are you or your partner a UK citizen? (or other EU)
> 
> a UK citizen has the right to live & work in Spain, and an non-EU spouse or civil partner of an UK citizen does too - but has to apply for residency as such & will then have the same rights
> 
> actually finding work would be a different matter...........


Yep my girlfriend has a British passport.


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## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> are you or your partner a UK citizen? (or other EU)
> 
> a UK citizen has the right to live & work in Spain, and an non-EU spouse or civil partner of an UK citizen does too - but has to apply for residency as such & will then have the same rights
> 
> actually finding work would be a different matter...........


I have the paper work for my British gf to sponsor me to move to the UK and it all seems very straight forward. One question, we are applying from Canada, does anyone know how long we have to live in the UK before we can both travel to Spain to live and work?


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## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> I have the paper work for my British gf to sponsor me to move to the UK and it all seems very straight forward. One question, we are applying from Canada, does anyone know how long we have to live in the UK before we can both travel to Spain to live and work?


it's two separate issues

having permission to live & work in the UK has no bearing on any rights you may have in Spain - nor vice versa


you could move to Spain tomorrow & start the process here, as long as you fulfil Spain's requirements


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## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> it's two separate issues
> 
> having permission to live & work in the UK has no bearing on any rights you may have in Spain - nor vice versa
> 
> you could move to Spain tomorrow & start the process here, as long as you fulfil Spain's requirements


Do you have any more info on Spain's requirements? Or how we register our partnership there. The UK website has all the forms and is very easy but Spain is very difficult.


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## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> Do you have any more info on Spain's requirements? Or how we register our partnership there. The UK website has all the forms and is very easy but Spain is very difficult.


go back to the beginning of this thread........... as much information as is available is there ....................


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## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> go back to the beginning of this thread........... as much information as is available is there ....................



Sorry if I am still mis-understanding, the info at the beginning of the post is great, I'll paste it again below just so I'm not mistaken.

The problem is my girlfriend and I live in Canada, not the UK, so in the 5 points below in what is needed to apply step 3 says a "certificate of our civil partnership". This is what we don't have, which is why my original question was if we were to go to England and register our partnership, how long do we have to stay before we could move to Spain.

Also, below it says we have to have proof we live together for atleast a year. In Canada we have this, but we don't have our relationship registered in the UK.

Our goal is to move to Spain not the UK but I'm still confused how we can do this without going to the UK first and registering our partnership?

Info From Beginning of Post:

"t's the same for any non-EU national spouse of a EU citizen (be they Spanish, British, German, etc.) 

This information was current in November 2011.
The information sheet is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Inform...entos2/103.pdf

The application form is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Modelo...omunitario.pdf

Briefly translating the required documents, you must bring: 

1. The application and a copy (always bring at least two copies of all this documentation to be safe!) 
2. The original passport and a copy of your entire passport. 
3. A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate or certificate of being a civil partnership and copy. 
4. The original and a copy of the EU-citizen spouse's documentation (If Spanish, their DNI)
5. Three recent photographs "tamaño carné" 

* While it's not listed on the info sheet they asked us for an empadronamiento indicating that we had been living together at least one year.


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## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> Sorry if I am still mis-understanding, the info at the beginning of the post is great, I'll paste it again below just so I'm not mistaken.
> 
> The problem is my girlfriend and I live in Canada, not the UK, so in the 5 points below in what is needed to apply step 3 says a "certificate of our civil partnership". This is what we don't have, which is why my original question was if we were to go to England and register our partnership, how long do we have to stay before we could move to Spain.
> 
> Also, below it says we have to have proof we live together for atleast a year. In Canada we have this, but we don't have our relationship registered in the UK.
> 
> Our goal is to move to Spain not the UK but I'm still confused how we can do this without going to the UK first and registering our partnership?
> 
> Info From Beginning of Post:
> 
> "t's the same for any non-EU national spouse of a EU citizen (be they Spanish, British, German, etc.)
> 
> This information was current in November 2011.
> The information sheet is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Inform...entos2/103.pdf
> 
> The application form is: http://extranjeros.mtin.es/es/Modelo...omunitario.pdf
> 
> Briefly translating the required documents, you must bring:
> 
> 1. The application and a copy (always bring at least two copies of all this documentation to be safe!)
> 2. The original passport and a copy of your entire passport.
> 3. A recent (issued within the last 3 months) copy of your marriage certificate or certificate of being a civil partnership and copy.
> 4. The original and a copy of the EU-citizen spouse's documentation (If Spanish, their DNI)
> 5. Three recent photographs "tamaño carné"
> 
> * While it's not listed on the info sheet they asked us for an empadronamiento indicating that we had been living together at least one year.


I'll say it again

registering in Spain has NOTHING to do with the UK

you have to be able to prove the relationship to the satisfaction of the Spanish authorites

to register as _parejas de hecho_ & get a 'certificate of civil partnership' in Spain - yes, you can get it in Spain - I believe you need to prove that you have been living together for whatever the required period is - it doesn't matter where 


can you not register as civil partners in Canada, since you live there?


----------



## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> I'll say it again
> 
> registering in Spain has NOTHING to do with the UK
> 
> you have to be able to prove the relationship to the satisfaction of the Spanish authorites
> 
> to register as parejas de hecho & get a 'certificate of civil partnership' in Spain - yes, you can get it in Spain - I believe you need to prove that you have been living together for whatever the required period is - it doesn't matter where
> 
> can you not register as civil partners in Canada, since you live there?


Thanks very much, I'll look into that.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> I'll say it again
> 
> registering in Spain has NOTHING to do with the UK
> 
> you have to be able to prove the relationship to the satisfaction of the Spanish authorites
> 
> to register as _parejas de hecho_ & get a 'certificate of civil partnership' in Spain - yes, you can get it in Spain - I believe you need to prove that you have been living together for whatever the required period is - it doesn't matter where
> 
> 
> can you not register as civil partners in Canada, since you live there?


But...
If registering in the UK has nothing to do with registering in Spain, will registering in Canada make any difference?

On a more personal level, if you're willing to make a statement saying you're living together, which will lead to some kind of recognised agreement, why don't you have a civil wedding which will lead you down the same path?


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> But...
> If registering in the UK has nothing to do with registering in Spain, will registering in Canada make any difference?
> 
> On a more personal level, if you're willing to make a statement saying you're living together, which will lead to some kind of recognised agreement, why don't you have a civil wedding which will lead you down the same path?


what I mean is.............. they don't have to get the paperwork from the UK - it can wait til they get to Spain

if it's in process in the UK then carry on - but if not, they can just come here & do it here



with the caveat of course that they really shouldn't unless they have work..................


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> what I mean is.............. they don't have to get the paperwork from the UK - it can wait til they get to Spain
> 
> if it's in process in the UK then carry on - but if not, they can just come here & do it here
> 
> 
> 
> with the caveat of course that they really shouldn't unless they have work..................


Right, but getting official regonition from Canada, whilst not doing any harm won't necessarily help the paperwork to be done here. (??)


Of course, as you say, there seems to be little point doing all of this if there's no job in sight.
Was it this poster who said he was a teacher of some sort? If so, recruiting for all types of school is going on now for 2012 - 2013. Perhaps for the following year?


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Right, but getting official regonition from Canada, whilst not doing any harm won't necessarily help the paperwork to be done here. (??)
> 
> 
> Of course, as you say, there seems to be little point doing all of this if there's no job in sight.
> Was it this poster who said he was a teacher of some sort? If so, recruiting for all types of school is going on now for 2012 - 2013. Perhaps for the following year?


it must help I guess - extra proof that they have lived together for however long?

if they are IN Canada & can get the proof, then they don't then have to go to the UK, wait however long it takes to get it there again before coming here

tho as we agree - pointless without any chance of work



I _think_ he wanted tefl work??


----------



## joshjadavies

Pesky Wesky said:


> Right, but getting official regonition from Canada, whilst not doing any harm won't necessarily help the paperwork to be done here. (??)
> 
> Of course, as you say, there seems to be little point doing all of this if there's no job in sight.
> Was it this poster who said he was a teacher of some sort? If so, recruiting for all types of school is going on now for 2012 - 2013. Perhaps for the following year?


Are you saying having proof from Canada isnt necessary because it's needs to be from an EU country? Or I don't need proof at all for the paper work?


----------



## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> Are you saying having proof from Canada isnt necessary because it's needs to be from an EU country? Or I don't need proof at all for the paper work?


you need proof that you have been living together - but afaik it doesn't matter WHERE you have been living


----------



## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> you need proof that you have been living together - but afaik it doesn't matter WHERE you have been living


Well we finally made it to Barcelona. I have the 1 year youth mobility visa and was able to easily get my NIE card. We also signed a 1 year lease for an apt. We being my British girlfriend and myself, a Canadian. 

My girlfriend is having issues getting her NIE, apparently she either needs a work contract or proof of finances and health ins. This is new as of Sept 2012. She is looking for a job but with the economy as it is, she is not expecting this to happen quickly if at all. She has proof of finances but had her purse stolen recently and no longer has proof of insurance. For that she needs to go back to England and its a bit of a pain in itself. 

Ok, to the point, after our year here should we wish to stay, we want to apply for the pareja de hecho. I know above it says this is possible for any EU citizen but everything else I read says civil partnership with a spanish resident, which my girlfriend is not. Is it true any EU citizen qualifies?

Also, does my girlfriend need to get her NIE? Is that what makes her a resident?

Our plan was for her to search for a job first and if that doesnt work out then plan b would be to go back to England to get her S1 card or whatever they call their health insurance card. Or is it better to get the health card now and get her the NIE card and register as pareja de hecho as soon as possible?

We also have proof we lived together in Canada as well. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## jojo

NIE isnt the same as the residencia. She'll have been given a temporary NIE that will be valid for three months. To get her residencia she must show that she can support herself and that she has healthcare cover. She has three months to do that. Can you not prove that you have enough money for both of you????? 

Jo xxx


----------



## joshjadavies

jojo said:


> NIE isnt the same as the residencia. She'll have been given a temporary NIE that will be valid for three months. To get her residencia she must show that she can support herself and that she has healthcare cover. She has three months to do that. Can you not prove that you have enough money for both of you?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes the finances is not a problem its that her British health card was stolen.


----------



## jojo

joshjadavies said:


> Yes the finances is not a problem its that her British health card was stolen.



She'll have to get it replaced. 

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> Yes the finances is not a problem its that her British health card was stolen.


has she been previously working in the UK & paying NI - she might in that case be able to get an S1 form

if not, then she'll have to get private insurance

her EHIC (I imagine that's what you mean was stolen?) is only for holiday use & shouldn't be accepted for prove of healthcare - as soon as she is resident here it's illegal for her to use it here


----------



## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> has she been previously working in the UK & paying NI - she might in that case be able to get an S1 form
> 
> if not, then she'll have to get private insurance
> 
> her EHIC (I imagine that's what you mean was stolen?) is only for holiday use & shouldn't be accepted for prove of healthcare - as soon as she is resident here it's illegal for her to use it here


Yes I just spoke with her, she had an EHIC which was stolen. She's been living in Canada for the last 6 years so she no longer has an address in England. In order to have the card replaced apparently you have a permanent address in England. She is going to visit her grand parents next week and is going to try to use their address.

Just to confirm. The steps would be for her to get the health insurance, be it EHIC or private insurance, proof of finances and then apply for the residencia card.

After living in Barcelona for 1 year together, we can apply for the pareja de hecho.

Does that makes sense?

Thanks a lot


----------



## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> Yes I just spoke with her, she had an EHIC which was stolen. She's been living in Canada for the last 6 years so she no longer has an address in England. In order to have the card replaced apparently you have a permanent address in England. She is going to visit her grand parents next week and is going to try to use their address.
> 
> Just to confirm. The steps would be for her to get the health insurance, be it EHIC or private insurance, proof of finances and then apply for the residencia card.
> 
> After living in Barcelona for 1 year together, we can apply for the pareja de hecho.
> 
> Does that makes sense?
> 
> Thanks a lot


she'd need private health insurance - as I said, the EHIC is for holiday cover only

proof of finances, health insurance - then she can download the EX18 form from here - that is for the resident registration certificate (being issued as a credit card sized bit of paper in some areas) - take the lot to the extranjería


----------



## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> she'd need private health insurance - as I said, the EHIC is for holiday cover only
> 
> proof of finances, health insurance - then she can download the EX18 form from here - that is for the resident registration certificate (being issued as a credit card sized bit of paper in some areas) - take the lot to the extranjería


Thanks, and then after 1 year we can register as pareja de hecho?


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## Roxx79

Hi all, 
Although moving to Spain with a non-EU partner seems simple in principle, in reality it seems very bureaucratic. I have some Qs as my family and I are hoping to move to Spain and we have a UK Civil Partnership. We registered it at the UK embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam. My partner is Thai and we have been together in Bangkok for the past 3 and a half years. We now have twin daughters 

A) which visa would my partner need to apply for from the Spanish embassy here to gain entry?
B ) Is the CP accepted in Spain for the purposes of free movement of family members (I will really shocked if not)? 
C) do I have to apply for a copy from the GRO in the UK with a recent date? therefore presenting my original CP cert and a recent duplicate AND a translated apostiled version (3x documents) plus twom copies of each? 
D) For the translation into Spanish and legalisation, would we need to send it to the UK? 
Thank you for your help!


----------



## Roxx79

P.S> I have posted about this before but I can't navigate this site well enough to relocate my old posts! Any tips on this very much appreciated so I don't repeat myself over and over in different places!


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## baldilocks

Roxx79 said:


> B ) Is the CP accepted in Spain for the purposes of free movement of family members (I will really shocked if not)?


I fail to understand why you would be shocked. This is a Catholic country and, although much less than in prior times, the church still has a lot of clout.


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## Roxx79

Yes, I know, but it permits same sex marriage... Do you know the answer?


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## Roxx79

I have also been reading back through the posts here and the Canadian poster says his non-EU spouse seemed to be required to find work for the NIE. My understanding under the Freedom of Movement directive 38/C is that the Non-EU spouse of an EU national is *not* required to do that for the Residency Card. Can anyone confirm that this is the case, and that my partner needs only prove that we are together by presenting the required documentation as outlined here: 

/SNIP/
Thank you.


----------



## Roxx79

UGH. I speak good Spanish, and have some relatives outside Barcelona, so thought I would come to Spain with my non-EU partner seeing as there is no way they will let us into the UK. This sounds like an absolute nightmare, however. There is a really clear set of EU guidelines of what they are permitted to ask for and it sounds like they are ignoring them?
see here: 
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf
Can anyone help?


----------



## zenkarma

Roxx79

Can I ask why you've decided to relocate from Thailand to Spain? Sorry if that seems nosy (I don't mean to be) I'm just curious as to why you might want to do that. 

Just fancy a change of scenery?


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## Roxx79

Many reasons, but actually we want to go home to the UK and the UK have made it almost impossible to do so. We have just had baby twin girls and want to be closer to my parents. SPain is somewhere I think I would really like to spend some time, and I am a teacher so I think I would probably be able to find work. If it worked out then we might stay! The UK isn't appealing at the moment at all but it's still home and I would like the girls to know something of the place I grew up. And actually, the expat lifestyle loses quite a lot of its sheen here in Thailand if you have a Thai spouse - your partner is always grossly undervalued when you yourself are massively overvalued. It's personal, I suppose. It was absolutely great for a while, but now I want out of Asia, at least for now!


----------



## baldilocks

Roxx79 said:


> UGH. I speak good Spanish, and have some relatives outside Barcelona, so thought I would come to Spain with my non-EU partner seeing as there is no way they will let us into the UK. This sounds like an absolute nightmare, however. There is a really clear set of EU guidelines of what they are permitted to ask for and it sounds like they are ignoring them?
> see here:
> http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf
> Can anyone help?


But you are making the same mistake as others have done. You are reading the public version of a EU directive which has no weight in law. It states what the EU *would like* a member nation to do but those member nations are under no obligation to comply with all or part or none of it. The fact that the UK blindly goes along with everything is no guide to what any other member state will do.

Why don't you go to UK and try from there? It would be much simpler once your partner has been accepted by your home nation.


----------



## xabiaxica

Roxx79 said:


> I have also been reading back through the posts here and the Canadian poster says his non-EU spouse seemed to be required to find work for the NIE. My understanding under the Freedom of Movement directive 38/C is that the Non-EU spouse of an EU national is *not* required to do that for the Residency Card. Can anyone confirm that this is the case, and that my partner needs only prove that we are together by presenting the required documentation as outlined here:
> 
> /SNIP/
> Thank you.


I've had to remove that link - it's to another forum & against our rules to post it


I didn't read it, but from what you have said that would be out of date info - even an EU citizen now needs to prove income / funds enough to support themselves in order to register as resident in Spain now

so - your wife would need a Schengen visa to enter Spain

you as the EU citizen would then need to register as resident - for that you have to prove income &/or funds & healthcare provision

what passports do your children hold? If EU then register them at the same time as you - if Thai then you will need to apply for residency for them at the same time as your partner

tbh I'm not sure if Spain recognises civil partnerships formalised in another country - your best bet would be to check the nearest consulate to where you live atm


----------



## baldilocks

But you are making the same mistake as others have done. You are reading the public version of a EU directive which has no weight in law. It states what the EU *would like* a member nation to do but those member nations are under no obligation to comply with all or part or none of it. The fact that the UK blindly goes along with everything is no guide to what any other member state will do.

Why don't you go to UK and try from there? It would be much simpler once your partner has been accepted by your home nation.

BTW you are confusing the issue by posting your questions on two unrelated threads.


----------



## elisa31bcn

By the way, Don't confuse NIE with residency. Anyone can get a NIE. It's just a number that allows you to buy/sell property or open a bank account. They will give you a NIE when you successfully apply for residency, if you don't already have one.


----------



## Roxx79

I sense that you are finding me very irritating. I do apologise. 
Can you suggest how I can find out more accurate information about how Spain and /or its different regions apply the directive?

You have obviously missed the fact that the current UK government are a laughing stock in the EU because they try very hard not to go along with anything! Their very damaging UK immigration law changes essentially mean that my partner and I are exiled unless we go home via a European country... As I have fluent Spanish, and some relatives close to Barcelona it seemed the best option for a transition. It is very difficult to work out exactly what is required though, and why some couples are struggling so much. 
Do you have any useful info for me? 
Thank you


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> But you are making the same mistake as others have done. You are reading the public version of a EU directive which has no weight in law. It states what the EU *would like* a member nation to do but those member nations are under no obligation to comply with all or part or none of it. The fact that the UK blindly goes along with everything is no guide to what any other member state will do.
> 
> Why don't you go to UK and try from there? It would be much simpler once your partner has been accepted by your home nation.
> 
> *BTW you are confusing the issue by posting your questions on two unrelated threads*.


I've moved them here now since it's the most relevant


----------



## baldilocks

Roxx79 said:


> I sense that you are finding me very irritating. I do apologise.
> Can you suggest how I can find out more accurate information about how Spain and /or its different regions apply the directive?
> 
> You have obviously missed the fact that the current UK government are a laughing stock in the EU because they try very hard not to go along with anything! Their very damaging UK immigration law changes essentially mean that my partner and I are exiled unless we go home via a European country... As I have fluent Spanish, and some relatives close to Barcelona it seemed the best option for a transition. It is very difficult to work out exactly what is required though, and why some couples are struggling so much.
> Do you have any useful info for me?
> Thank you


As I said you are causing confusion by asking your questions on this thread which relates to a non-EU citizen with a British wife in England. If you fail your own country's immigration law it suggests that you have qualification problems


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> As I said you are causing confusion by asking your questions on this thread which relates to a non-EU citizen with a British wife in England. If you fail your own country's immigration law it suggests that you have qualification problems


which is why I've moved them all to this thread..................

from what I understand from nosing around the Britain forum - the financial requirements to bring a non-EU spouse to the UK as a UK citizen are considerably higher than for an UK citizen to bring their non-EU spouse to live in Spain


strange, but apparently true................


----------



## Roxx79

I am getting quite confused with the threads - sorry if I have duplicated posts. I am feeling very confused generally! I have already emailed the Spanish Embassy here in Bangkok and explained about my civil partnership and I'm not sure he understood as in his reply he addressed me as 'estimado senor / senora'. He has sent me the info on the Oficina de extranjeria in Barcelona so I will ask them specifically re. the Civil Partnership issue. I did have an excellent document about the transposition of the 38/C directive by different countries but the link no longer works.


----------



## Roxx79

baldilocks said:


> As I said you are causing confusion by asking your questions on this thread which relates to a non-EU citizen with a British wife in England. If you fail your own country's immigration law it suggests that you have qualification problems


We fail the new UK laws because they are idiotic! I wish you would find some facts upon which to base your opinions. I am sorry to write a big answer here about the UK rules, but as you clearly don't know anything I'll set you straight about my situation, which as a UK citizen I hope you will be appalled by.

I am a graduate with two postgrad qualifications, speak 4 languages and my partner is a graduate and works as a high level chef. Both of us have been continuously employed for the last 10 years and have some savings (which are probably not far from 8000euros currently). I have property which I can't sell at the moment, although I want to as it's too small for a family with twins.

We currently live abroad and *if* I could find a teaching job in a UK state school after working in the independent sector for 5 years, I would be amazed, especially as I would be unable to teach a lesson for them to observe from Thailand. If I did get a job and we were to get a UK spouse visa, we would still be subject to interference into our lives by the government for 5 years and unable to really settle and move forward in our family life for the whole of that time. If I wanted to have another baby, or if either of us fell ill and were to be unable to work, we would face separation. The UKBA is under the explicit mandate to refuse as many visa applications as possible and our savings are not counted until they reach 62500 pounds sterling if I don't have a job lined up. 

By contrast, if I work in an EU country for a year, providing we get the residency card, then we get to live in another interesting country and experience another culture, which really appeals to us both. In addition we have the enormous long term benefits that the freedom of movement directive affords us once back in my own member state. We would not be subject to the prying subjected on applicants by the UKBA, to the absurd waiting times, and most importantly I would be perfectly within my rights to spend some time with my daughters while living at my parents house, which the UKBA deem totally unacceptable (indeed they think nothing of separating parents and children).

I object to the government's rhetoric that all foreign nationals are to be lumped into tabloid discussions of criminals and terrorists. I accept that there is a minimum financial requirement (but I think it's too high for a huge number of people, even though it wouldn't be for me if I could secure a job or indeed wanted to be the breadwinner) but not that for a returning expat with no job that it rockets to the amount above ( 80000+ if your kids are also non-EU!). I object to the government denying me the right to spend time as a full time mother in my own country if I so choose. 

Again, I apologise that this post is largely about the UKBA but I felt I must address jibes addressed to me.

Please, don't make sweeping judgements and comment without knowing either the facts or the person with whom you are conversing. I tried to make light of the fact that you seemed to have taken exception to me a few posts back, but you continue to make responses which given the enormous stress we have been under since discovering I can't take my family home, prick right where it hurts. 
Whatever your circumstances, I wish you all the best, and I'd like to ask you to refrain from posting responses which are unhelpful and don't answer my questions but make me out to be a fool.


----------



## Roxx79

xabiachica said:


> which is why I've moved them all to this thread..................
> 
> from what I understand from nosing around the Britain forum - the financial requirements to bring a non-EU spouse to the UK as a UK citizen are considerably higher than for an UK citizen to bring their non-EU spouse to live in Spain
> 
> 
> strange, but apparently true................


It's true! Thank you for your helpful responses - I will message the office in Barcelona to see if I can get some concrete answers.


----------



## xabiaxica

Roxx79 said:


> We fail the new UK laws because they are idiotic! I wish you would find some facts upon which to base your opinions. I am sorry to write a big answer here about the UK rules, but as you clearly don't know anything I'll set you straight about my situation, which as a UK citizen I hope you will be appalled by.
> 
> I am a graduate with two postgrad qualifications, speak 4 languages and my partner is a graduate and works as a high level chef. Both of us have been continuously employed for the last 10 years and have some savings (which are probably not far from 8000euros currently). I have property which I can't sell at the moment, although I want to as it's too small for a family with twins.
> 
> We currently live abroad and *if* I could find a teaching job in a UK state school after working in the independent sector for 5 years, I would be amazed, especially as I would be unable to teach a lesson for them to observe from Thailand. If I did get a job and we were to get a UK spouse visa, we would still be subject to interference into our lives by the government for 5 years and unable to really settle and move forward in our family life for the whole of that time. If I wanted to have another baby, or if either of us fell ill and were to be unable to work, we would face separation. The UKBA is under the explicit mandate to refuse as many visa applications as possible and our savings are not counted until they reach 62500 pounds sterling if I don't have a job lined up.
> 
> By contrast, if I work in an EU country for a year, providing we get the residency card, then we get to live in another interesting country and experience another culture, which really appeals to us both. In addition we have the enormous long term benefits that the freedom of movement directive affords us once back in my own member state. We would not be subject to the prying subjected on applicants by the UKBA, to the absurd waiting times, and most importantly I would be perfectly within my rights to spend some time with my daughters while living at my parents house, which the UKBA deem totally unacceptable (indeed they think nothing of separating parents and children).
> 
> I object to the government's rhetoric that all foreign nationals are to be lumped into tabloid discussions of criminals and terrorists. I accept that there is a minimum financial requirement (but I think it's too high for a huge number of people, even though it wouldn't be for me if I could secure a job or indeed wanted to be the breadwinner) but not that for a returning expat with no job that it rockets to the amount above ( 80000+ if your kids are also non-EU!). I object to the government denying me the right to spend time as a full time mother in my own country if I so choose.
> 
> Again, I apologise that this post is largely about the UKBA but I felt I must address jibes addressed to me.
> 
> Please, don't make sweeping judgements and comment without knowing either the facts or the person with whom you are conversing. I tried to make light of the fact that you seemed to have taken exception to me a few posts back, but you continue to make responses which given the enormous stress we have been under since discovering I can't take my family home, prick right where it hurts.
> Whatever your circumstances, I wish you all the best, and I'd like to ask you to refrain from posting responses which are unhelpful and don't answer my questions but make me out to be a fool.



yes, it does seem a lot - but you'll have to prove to Spain that you can support yourself & your family as well

YOU will need to do so in order for just YOU to register as resident - that 8000€ should be enough - but from what we are seeing reported it's not going to be enough for you to bring your partner & children to live here with you - unless you can secure contracted employment here in Spain 

it might in the long run be simpler for you to go to the UK - I understand you'd need an income of 18600+ GBP a year in order to take your spouse - I've not heard of the 80,000 for the kids - are they not entitled to UK passports anyway??

I don't know what the current requirements are here - the requirements for EU citizens changed so recently that it's still not clear - but I suspect it won't be very much different


----------



## Roxx79

Well I understand that a job is critical, and it certainly seems that going to Spain is far from straightforward. 
The only way I think I could get a UK job would be to leave ahead of my partner so that I could be present to attend interviews etc. and then I would have to find work and look after the twins alone or be stuck trying to find work where my parents live which is unfortunately unlikely. Then I would be compelled to keep that job for six months before we could apply for the visa, and then you have all the associated delays - so we'd be apart for at least a year. 
Ideally I would get work in an international school and would have employment arranged before arriving, but I had also considered doing a CELTA in Barcelona and then taking a job in the local primary schools. That's not guaranteed though. It's a risk.
It looks like perhaps I will just have to apply for international schools all over Europe rather than focusing on Spain where I have some family. It's difficult that there seems to be such a lack of clarity, but thanks for your help and I will continue my research.


----------



## xabiaxica

Roxx79 said:


> Well I understand that a job is critical, and it certainly seems that going to Spain is far from straightforward.
> The only way I think I could get a UK job would be to leave ahead of my partner so that I could be present to attend interviews etc. and then I would have to find work and look after the twins alone or be stuck trying to find work where my parents live which is unfortunately unlikely. Then I would be compelled to keep that job for six months before we could apply for the visa, and then you have all the associated delays - so we'd be apart for at least a year.
> Ideally I would get work in an international school and would have employment arranged before arriving, but I had also considered doing a CELTA in Barcelona and then taking a job in the local primary schools. That's not guaranteed though. It's a risk.
> It looks like perhaps I will just have to apply for international schools all over Europe rather than focusing on Spain where I have some family. It's difficult that there seems to be such a lack of clarity, but thanks for your help and I will continue my research.


the state schools won't employ you with a CELTA....

you're right - almost certainly the only way really is to secure a job in an International school in Europe or a school in the UK before moving the rest of the family

I'm sure you realise that the adverts for Sept 2013 will be coming out around now


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## baldilocks

Roxx79 said:


> We fail the new UK laws because they are idiotic! I wish you would find some facts upon which to base your opinions. I am sorry to write a big answer here about the UK rules, but as you clearly don't know anything I'll set you straight about my situation, which as a UK citizen I hope you will be appalled by.
> 
> I am a graduate with two postgrad qualifications, speak 4 languages and my partner is a graduate and works as a high level chef. Both of us have been continuously employed for the last 10 years and have some savings (which are probably not far from 8000euros currently). I have property which I can't sell at the moment, although I want to as it's too small for a family with twins.
> 
> We currently live abroad and *if* I could find a teaching job in a UK state school after working in the independent sector for 5 years, I would be amazed, especially as I would be unable to teach a lesson for them to observe from Thailand. If I did get a job and we were to get a UK spouse visa, we would still be subject to interference into our lives by the government for 5 years and unable to really settle and move forward in our family life for the whole of that time. If I wanted to have another baby, or if either of us fell ill and were to be unable to work, we would face separation. The UKBA is under the explicit mandate to refuse as many visa applications as possible and our savings are not counted until they reach 62500 pounds sterling if I don't have a job lined up.
> 
> By contrast, if I work in an EU country for a year, providing we get the residency card, then we get to live in another interesting country and experience another culture, which really appeals to us both. In addition we have the enormous long term benefits that the freedom of movement directive affords us once back in my own member state. We would not be subject to the prying subjected on applicants by the UKBA, to the absurd waiting times, and most importantly I would be perfectly within my rights to spend some time with my daughters while living at my parents house, which the UKBA deem totally unacceptable (indeed they think nothing of separating parents and children).
> 
> I object to the government's rhetoric that all foreign nationals are to be lumped into tabloid discussions of criminals and terrorists. I accept that there is a minimum financial requirement (but I think it's too high for a huge number of people, even though it wouldn't be for me if I could secure a job or indeed wanted to be the breadwinner) but not that for a returning expat with no job that it rockets to the amount above ( 80000+ if your kids are also non-EU!). I object to the government denying me the right to spend time as a full time mother in my own country if I so choose.
> 
> Again, I apologise that this post is largely about the UKBA but I felt I must address jibes addressed to me.
> 
> Please, don't make sweeping judgements and comment without knowing either the facts or the person with whom you are conversing. I tried to make light of the fact that you seemed to have taken exception to me a few posts back, but you continue to make responses which given the enormous stress we have been under since discovering I can't take my family home, prick right where it hurts.
> Whatever your circumstances, I wish you all the best, and I'd like to ask you to refrain from posting responses which are unhelpful and don't answer my questions but make me out to be a fool.


Stop being paranoid. I'm not referring to your educational qualifications but your qualifications to settle in the UK. Your being rude and insulting does you no credit whatsoever.


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