# More on pellet burning boilers



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I've recently had a wood pellet burning boiler installed & I noticed there is no way for me to get a set of brushes in to sweep the flue. 

The installer assures me I'm just meant to drop the end cap at the bottom of the flue & just give the pipe a few taps & what little soot there is in the pipe will just fall out........ Quite honestly, I think that's BS & to me, the flue should have an access point to allow me to sweep it properly.

Can I ask what others do about this & if they have access points for cleaning please?

I haven't paid for the boiler yet & want to make sure everything is correct before I do.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Mine was a conversion, so maybe different but flue exit from boiler is a" T" junction allowing rod access if reguired. 
T is set I-- with a removable cap


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Mine is an elbow joint rather than a T but it's only a few inches off the ground & so I can't get a set of brushes in there........ which strikes me as wrong...... Surely there should be some access to get brushes in there?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Ours is sufficiently high enough for the flexibility of "canes".

You could do with a T anyway so any crap drops out rather than collect at U, you could always also get him to add joint like a road access to motorway for brush access


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi, If you are new to pellet stoves then you need to know that they are not an automated version of a wood burner. If installed correctly (assume it is a modern central system) with lined flu etc those sold today are higher-efficiency appliances wi9th low emissions because the comp8lete combustion preven7ts a buildup of flammable chim6ney deposits (creosote). Unlike the ineffi5cient wood burners the installation should be desi4gned so there are no deposits form3img within the insulated flu hence a "dust trap" at low le2vel is all that should be needed. We have a modern port1able pellet stove which vents into the room in the same manner as the old gas bottle portable heaters and there is no detectable flu gases. If your installation is new and uses insulated twinwall stainless flexible flu pipe, maybe inside an existing brick chimney, then sticking a standard sweeps brush up it will risk causing damage to the internal flu wall. I understand that if you are used to the normal polluting woodburners and the need to sweep chimneys this may all be a step too far but a modern car exhaust doesn't need sweeping so why would an efficient non polluting pellet stove flu? Ping an email to one of the installation companies explaining your concerns as they advise people all the time on this type of question.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Yes it is a modern (CH) system but the flue runs outside the house but is of single wall stainless tube not twin walled/lined flue.

I have just now emailed a couple of installers & hope they'll get back to me next week.


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## BlackBeardie (Feb 22, 2012)

BodgieMcBodge said:


> Hi, If you are new to pellet stoves then you need to know that they are not an automated version of a wood burner. If installed correctly (assume it is a modern central system) with lined flu etc those sold today are higher-efficiency appliances wi9th low emissions because the comp8lete combustion preven7ts a buildup of flammable chim6ney deposits (creosote). Unlike the ineffi5cient wood burners the installation should be desi4gned so there are no deposits form3img within the insulated flu hence a "dust trap" at low le2vel is all that should be needed. We have a modern port1able pellet stove which vents into the room in the same manner as the old gas bottle portable heaters and there is no detectable flu gases. If your installation is new and uses insulated twinwall stainless flexible flu pipe, maybe inside an existing brick chimney, then sticking a standard sweeps brush up it will risk causing damage to the internal flu wall. I understand that if you are used to the normal polluting woodburners and the need to sweep chimneys this may all be a step too far but a modern car exhaust doesn't need sweeping so why would an efficient non polluting pellet stove flu? Ping an email to one of the installation companies explaining your concerns as they advise people all the time on this type of question.


Hi, I'm with you on there being less deposits on the inside of the chimney with a modern efficient pellet burning stove. But you are not comparing like with like. Methane (CH4) gives of just CO2 and water on combustion so can be vented into the room. There is no deposits in the exhaust pipe as petrol is of a highly standardised composition whose products of cumbustion can be accurately predicted. 

Wood on the other hand is a very complex material and gives of a multitude of gases
during it's various stages of combustion. Even if there was no visible soot I still would not want to breathe in the exhaust gases given off during the combustion process of wood. I can pretty much guarantee you that these will contain more that just CO2 and water.


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi, 

Portable gas heaters don't use methane but run from LNG in low pressure cylinders and will, if the combustion is incomplete, exhaust carbon monoxide and particulates directly into the room. Complete combustion of LNG will produce water+carbon dioxide and some NOx. Complete combustion of E85 (apologies for Yank speak) gasoline which is mainly a different fraction hydrocarbon from the same source as LNG, a long chain hydrocarbon + 15% Ethanol will produce water+carbon dioxide and some NOx which since the banning of lead additives looks quite similar to me.

A pellet stove IS NOT a wood burner stove, simply it is a controlled combustion of a fuel at high temperature which converts the fuel's (not a complex material) three main chemical components (organic and derived from water and air) to water and air.

This may be a Yank gov website but does explain pellet stoves in a form of "English" Quote from 

Wood and Pellet Heating | Department of Energy

_ However, a pellet stove is often cheaper to install than a conventional wood-burning heater. Many can be direct-vented to the room and do not need an expensive chimney or flue. As a result, the installed cost of the entire system may be less than that of a conventional wood stove. _

Hope that make it a bit clearer.


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## sobral (May 24, 2010)

*Pellet Stove Flues*

Having had a pellet stove for well over 4 years, I will quote the actual manual instructions for a flue pipe - 

The only type of pipe which is permissable is insulated (double-walled) stainless steel, smooth on the inside, fixed to the wall. Flexible stainless steel pipe must not be used. At the bottom of the flue pipe, provide an inspection cap to allow for periodic checking and cleaning, which must be done annually.

The inspction cap on our system is too low to get a brush up for cleaning so we do it from the roof, once a year with no harm to the interior lining ( using a polythene type chimney sweep brush)

I am somewhat surprised that the installer has not given you the full manual for installation and use of the pellet boiler. There are usually very clear diagrams of flues that are acceptable. This involves the angles of the connecting pipes between the stove and the flue duct, maximum horizontal lengths of the flue, hight of flue above the roof, etc, etc.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

He has given me a manual but it's VERY short of diagrams & is entirely in Portuguese so to me, it's as much use as a one legged man at an arse kicking party........

I've emailed the manufacturer with questions but not had a reply yet.

If I am meant to sweep it then I'll have them do it so I can clean it from the ground........ I don't like heights at the best of times & as I'm going to be spending so much on a Portuguese boiler, I intend to make sure I get it done absolutely right!

I could have bought 2 Polish made boilers (AND had change) for the price I'm paying for this one!


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## Centralbound (Aug 16, 2013)

Insulated flue not strictly necessary if it is swept once a year, it adds a couple of percent to efficiency but additional cost of a long flue = several years of sweeping which you should do anyway... The exception to this is a short flue, where keeping the gases really hot creates the draught that a longer flue has naturally.

I'd get the ground level access put in now, better than having sweeps break tiles on your roof. Use a downward-facing y-piece above the flue exit if necessary for clearance, does the same job more or less.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Try online for English manuals they might be on companies site


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Try online for English manuals they might be on companies site


There's not an English version on their website.


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## sobral (May 24, 2010)

*Pellet Boiler*

Perhaps you would be good enough to share with us the actual make and model No of your Pellet Boiler. As far as sweeping this is done quite easily without breaking any roofing tiles. An alternative is to dismantle the flue once a year for cleaning. However the best alternative is to ensure that there is sufficient height on the flue where it exits so that a rodding cap can be installed. I agree that an insulated flue is not totally necessary but it is highly recommended that one be installed, and will certainly save money in the long term.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Sorry. I should have mentioned the make.

It's a Hidramatik 30 made by Olimatik Hotmatik Products.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

See what you mean by lack of information does the manual installer left have more information than PDF on the site, you could scan and then copy & paste into a translator but I think I'd be jumping all over manufacturer & installer for a real manual and certainly wouldn't be paying a balance until supplied


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The manual has 60 pages of instructions all in Portuguese so it'd take an ice age to translate it all....... I have contacted the manufacturer for clarification on the cleaning situation etc and asking for an English manual but not had any reply as yet.

Either way, I don't intend to pay until I get all the info etc I need and/or until the boiler is working to my complete satisfaction.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Strange then it's not apparently available online and therefore easier to copy and paste into a translator


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## BlackBeardie (Feb 22, 2012)

Hi,
a) E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% petroleum (gasoline) - widely used as the main fuel in Brazil through their ALCOOL program. 
b) LNG is predominantly methane (CH4) That what is says on the tin. Liquid natural gas which is methane. I know some space heaters use propane.

I still stand by the combustion of wood being a highly complex process during which different gases are given off during different stages of the combustion process. These gases include gases with a nitrogen and sulphur components but really can contain any other chemical elements depending what as been locked in the original wood. The only way you would be able to remove these is if the pellet burner has some sort of 'scrubber' system to remove these potentially harmful components and other exhaust gases excluding CO2 and H20 that escaped being burned. 

Personally, I'd not be happy to have a pellet burner venting it's exhaust gases into my enclosed living area. 



BodgieMcBodge said:


> Hi,
> 
> Portable gas heaters don't use methane but run from LNG in low pressure cylinders and will, if the combustion is incomplete, exhaust carbon monoxide and particulates directly into the room. Complete combustion of LNG will produce water+carbon dioxide and some NOx. Complete combustion of E85 (apologies for Yank speak) gasoline which is mainly a different fraction hydrocarbon from the same source as LNG, a long chain hydrocarbon + 15% Ethanol will produce water+carbon dioxide and some NOx which since the banning of lead additives looks quite similar to me.
> 
> ...


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Strange then it's not apparently available online and therefore easier to copy and paste into a translator


Typical of a Portuguese business........ Most couldn't sell a 10 minute liaison in a house of ill repute! lol


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