# Any advice please?



## Billy England (Apr 20, 2013)

Hi, my partner and I are interested in possibly moving out to Spain in the next year or two (most likely the Costa Blanca) and we're seeking some guidance from British expats who are already living out there. We like the idea of starting a business partnership up together or a sociedad civil for a number of reasons, not least because we fully understand that getting a job out there is now like discovering gold dust but we're curious also as to what taxes we'd be liable to pay BEFORE the business is started up and while we would basically be taking care of ourselves on savings? We are pretty baffled with the tax system to be completely honest and need to establish what taxes etc we would be liable to pay for our first few months in Spain before the business was started and then ALSO what taxes we would be liable to pay if we successfully started a business partnership? Also, would we be entitled to healthcare if we formed a business partnership? As far as we are aware the self-employed of Spain are entitled to healthcare and the social security safety net if and when needed but we aren't sure that the same rule applies to business partners? We aren't sensitive types, so just be blunt! All advice appreciated


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The reason why as you rightly say that getting jobs is 'like golddust' is obviously because of the dire state of the economy......which also means that businesses are suffering too, big time.

Starting a business in Spain isn't easy or straightforward at the best of times and will be even more so if you don't speak Spanish. The Spain of 2013 isn't the Spain of twenty or even ten years ago.....

You didn't say whether either of you have business experience or what kind of business you would start. I'd say forget about anything in the bar or restaurant sector.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

About 280€. monthly for a self employed person (Autonomo), regardless of income and no unemployment benefit if you fail. However I have heard that the system is under review.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Starting a Business ? - You don't say what you have experience in doing in the UK..... If you were a Vet or Doctor or Dentist and think of opening a prcatice over here I would say go for it. 
Then again, if you you just hoping to do the cliche and 'Open a Bar / Restaurant' I would advise against it.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Vets !! Knee deep in unemployed vets from all over the country. Our vets has them on 6 month contracts to help out & they come from all over >Spain. Last one was from Albacete & he was telling me that he had applied to join the GC to get into Seprona as their were no vets jobs available anywhere. Even when I moved out in 2002 all the vets in the abattoir /meat production plant in the Uk were spanish women & had been for nigh on 10 years. There doesn't seem to be any openings for new vets starting on their own around here.


Back to the OP.
If you start a LTd co. then you could be an employee or self-employed. Only trouble is the accountant costs go through the roof.
We were quoted 250/month fees +iva & that was on top of 275/month soc.sec. contributions x 2 . So you have huge outgoings & little income starting off.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

How Ya Billy? Chasing the Dream at the moment in Spain is like chasing the wind hoping to catch it, so near and yet so far. If you don't speak fluent Spanish your customer base is dreadfully fractioned. Let's say you and your partner have fluent Spanish, you still face an uphill battle with red tape, taxes, accommodation, motoring, living, networking etc. 

I admire your tenacity, but if you are surviving in the UK stay surviving and use Spain for the holidays. Sorry to rain on your parade but anything you have in reserve will soon be drained in the Costas.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Vets !! Knee deep in unemployed vets from all over the country. Our vets has them on 6 month contracts to help out & they come from all over >Spain. Last one was from Albacete & he was telling me that he had applied to join the GC to get into Seprona as their were no vets jobs available anywhere. Even when I moved out in 2002 all the vets in the abattoir /meat production plant in the Uk were spanish women & had been for nigh on 10 years. There doesn't seem to be any openings for new vets starting on their own around here.
> 
> 
> Back to the OP.
> ...


Yes, as far as vets go, there are many Spanish vets working in the UK I believe. I taught a Spanish vet here (English) who had been unemployed for 2 years and was going to work in an abattoir in the UK as from Jan this year


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## Billy England (Apr 20, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys they're very much appreciated. I did originally stay on for the summer holidays and help out cleaning a holiday complex with a Spanish family when I was about 14/15, the intention was for me to go out there and work on a more permanent basis once I'd finished school in England. I lost contact with the family unfortunately and if I'm honest, failed miserably in my gcse Spanish at the time! :-( That's the best part of ten years ago now though and while I would have most probably been keen to jump in to bar work back then, that isn't what me and my partner are interested in doing now. We aren't kidding ourselves that we can jump on a plane in the morning and "live the dream" we're keen to get a grasp of Spanish firstly (we don't believe it's right to move somewhere without having at least a reasonable knowledge of the language) and our ideas for a business revolve more around massage therapy, which since posting this thread we have been lead to believe isn't particularly popular in Spain unfortunately! :-( I think you might be right Leper, we might have to be happy with a holiday after all. At least for now. We couldn't realistically hope to manage to pay such high business and social security taxes at present, as I said before though, we weren't aiming to be there by the end of the week or anything so it might hopefully happen for us a few years down the line maybe


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Billy England said:


> Thanks for the replies guys they're very much appreciated. I did originally stay on for the summer holidays and help out cleaning a holiday complex with a Spanish family when I was about 14/15, the intention was for me to go out there and work on a more permanent basis once I'd finished school in England. I lost contact with the family unfortunately and if I'm honest, failed miserably in my gcse Spanish at the time! :-( That's the best part of ten years ago now though and while I would have most probably been keen to jump in to bar work back then, that isn't what me and my partner are interested in doing now. We aren't kidding ourselves that we can jump on a plane in the morning and "live the dream" we're keen to get a grasp of Spanish firstly (we don't believe it's right to move somewhere without having at least a reasonable knowledge of the language) and our ideas for a business revolve more around massage therapy, which since posting this thread we have been lead to believe isn't particularly popular in Spain unfortunately! :-( I think you might be right Leper, we might have to be happy with a holiday after all. At least for now. We couldn't realistically hope to manage to pay such high business and social security taxes at present, as I said before though, we weren't aiming to be there by the end of the week or anything so it might hopefully happen for us a few years down the line maybe


Who said it wasn't popular??
I think it's hugely popular!
A (Spanish) friend of mine does Shaitsu massage and is doing quite well, although it's hard work setting everything up and establishing herself, and TBH she's not declaring her earnings atm. I have been to about 6 places for a spa circuit or a massage in different towns that include restored Arab baths, a converted olive oil press, hotels...
One thing that I see happening though is that every day I get offers for massages and spas etc at rock bottom prices, so it seems that either the crisis is hitting or the markets saturated - or both!


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## Billy England (Apr 20, 2013)

I'd most likely say a mix of both by the sounds of it, I suppose for many it's seen as a leisure activity and ultimately a luxury rather than a necessity so many practicioners are tempted to slash their prices in the hope of maintaining a reasonable number of clients. We had read that massage isn't formally recognised as an occupation as it is in the UK and that it wasn't particularly popular with the Spanish. Definitely much more research required for us but to be honest, those figures above relating to social security and business tax have put us right off for now anyway. Good luck to your friend though, I can't say I blame her for not declaring with those kinds of expenses to be honest!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Billy England said:


> Thanks for the replies guys they're very much appreciated. I did originally stay on for the summer holidays and help out cleaning a holiday complex with a Spanish family when I was about 14/15, the intention was for me to go out there and work on a more permanent basis once I'd finished school in England. I lost contact with the family unfortunately and if I'm honest, failed miserably in my gcse Spanish at the time! :-( That's the best part of ten years ago now though and while I would have most probably been keen to jump in to bar work back then, that isn't what me and my partner are interested in doing now. We aren't kidding ourselves that we can jump on a plane in the morning and "live the dream" we're keen to get a grasp of Spanish firstly (we don't believe it's right to move somewhere without having at least a reasonable knowledge of the language) and our ideas for a business revolve more around massage therapy, which since posting this thread we have been lead to believe isn't particularly popular in Spain unfortunately! :-( I think you might be right Leper, we might have to be happy with a holiday after all. At least for now. We couldn't realistically hope to manage to pay such high business and social security taxes at present, as I said before though, we weren't aiming to be there by the end of the week or anything so it might hopefully happen for us a few years down the line maybe


I think that's the best course to take, Billy. There are people in this area offering massage and other kinds of therapy,so many that the market is saturated.

It would be miraculous if the Spanish economy, with its deepseated structural problems, were to be on its feet again in ten years. Maybe not even in twenty.

And it cannot be said too often: the 'Spanish dream' exists only in the mind of dreamers.
For many, Spanish nightmare is, sadly, a more accurate picture.


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## Billy England (Apr 20, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I think that's the best course to take, Billy. There are people in this area offering massage and other kinds of therapy,so many that the market is saturated.
> 
> It would be miraculous if the Spanish economy, with its deepseated structural problems, were to be on its feet again in ten years. Maybe not even in twenty.
> 
> ...


I agree yes. I suppose people tend to look at it through rose tinted spectacles and think "oh, something will come along when I'm out there" but I actually watched the news last night and while I was already aware that the situation was really bad it just highlighted exactly how bad. It's very sobering actually and does make me realise that while the weather may be nicer than it is here the lifestyle change could very well be for the worse rather than the better at the moment.


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