# Building refurb costs



## Itsmeagain

Hi all. 
How are price increases affecting refurb costs in France? I know in the UK the differences are quite marked, due to Covid and Brexit, and some things are still hard to get in any quantity without ordering/waiting. 
Is there a resource online anywhere to compare costs (roughly) to UK prices? 
We're currently looking at relocating and due to advice from this forum (and other places) have had to have a rethink and due to budget constraints need to calculate roughly what to expect. 
We've completed several projects in the UK, from grade II mansion type houses to old gold miners cottages and can price things relatively easily here but I know it's very different elsewhere. 
Any input gratefully received. 
Thanks, 
James.


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## Yours truly confused

We ordered roof slates this time last year at 1.28€ each, they are now, if you can get any, just shy of 2€ each. Wood has risen by at least 50% over the same period though engineered wood has nearly doubled. We have been waiting 9 months for some granite paving to arrive from Portugal, the builders merchants say it should be here in April. 

Generally everything has risen in price and waiting times have increased. Heating oil has also doubled in price over the last couple of months. If you have a strict budget I would think twice.


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## Itsmeagain

Yours truly confused said:


> We ordered roof slates this time last year at 1.28€ each, they are now, if you can get any, just shy of 2€ each. Wood has risen by at least 50% over the same period though engineered wood has nearly doubled. We have been waiting 9 months for some granite paving to arrive from Portugal, the builders merchants say it should be here in April.
> 
> Generally everything has risen in price and waiting times have increased. Heating oil has also doubled in price over the last couple of months. If you have a strict budget I would think twice.


Thanks, that's great information. It's a similar scenario in the UK. It's not that our budget is tight, more an awareness of how far into the rebuild rabbit hole we go!!


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## BoilingFrog

On a related note, what can I as a fairly well experienced DIYer do legally in France to improve/renovate my property? I am competent in pretty much everything (having learned the expensive way through trial and error in the UK) but obviously do not want to fall foul of French laws, insurance implications, or difficulties eventually selling.


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## Itsmeagain

BoilingFrog said:


> On a related note, what can I as a fairly well experienced DIYer do legally in France to improve/renovate my property? I am competent in pretty much everything (having learned the expensive way through trial and error in the UK) but obviously do not want to fall foul of French laws, insurance implications, or difficulties eventually selling.


Good question, the replies to which I am also interested in.
It will obviously depend on the type of work you do I suppose. I've done full rewires and installed full heating systems in the UK, just getting final connections and testing/signing off done by the relevant qualified installers but I have a good network of trades people to call upon here.


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## BoilingFrog

and also related, there are various grants and incentives available for improving the energy efficiency of property (amongst other things) but again, I wonder whether these can be claimed by the lay person against receipted expenses, or have to go through an intermediary, licensed/registered tradesperson?
There are also more strict rules coming in regarding energy efficiency, which may mean a rush of non conforming properties being offloaded (to unsuspecting Brits!?)
From French housing boom in heat-loss homes expected in 2022 
Every French flat or house that comes up for sale or rent must be audited for energy efficiency and rated on a scale of A to G, with A being the best and G the worst. A new law that was originally due to come into force in January 2022 will make it illegal for landlords to put up the rent of properties with ratings of F or G and illegal to rent out the property full-stop from 2025.


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## Bevdeforges

BoilingFrog said:


> and also related, there are various grants and incentives available for improving the energy efficiency of property (amongst other things) but again, I wonder whether these can be claimed by the lay person against receipted expenses, or have to go through an intermediary, licensed/registered tradesperson?


In general terms, most of these rebate or tax credit programs are designed specifically to encourage the hiring of local tradespeople (who are registered and licensed) - and often these programs focus on the materials used to do the work (i.e. so that they will be ordered through the tradesperson). It also serves as a sort of control over someone buying all the relevant "stuff" but then allowing it to sit in their storage for years and years. 

For a time, these sorts of programs were set up like this to assure that homeowners paid VAT on their renovation projects - as years ago, it was pretty common for people to just pay a tradesman in cash so that he wouldn't have to declare the work and pay the VAT to the state. 

I would venture to say that there are very few home improvement incentives that don't require a tradesman's invoice to qualify for the benefits. But you never know these days.


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## Crabtree

French trades are required to provide a 10 year insurance to cover their work The problem for a DIYer in France is that if you do major works such as a rewire roof or large scale plumbing then if there is a problem the first thing that your insurance will want to know is who did the work so they can subsequently claim on their insurance If it turns out you rewired/rereoofed the house yourself the insurance will walk away and leave you in the doodoo I have given this example before but many years ago a Brit couple were doing up a house in the next village and being a uk qualified electrician installed a ring main instead of following french normes and the house caught fire and literally burnt to the ground Insurance walked away and there followed a long court case which the insurance company won so get the pros in for the big jobs ....


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## tardigrade

You would also need to be a tax resident in France to get any rebate on the incentives for home improvement and normally 2nd homes are not included; it must be your primary residence.


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## Itsmeagain

Great information. I don't want to do major works myself any longer anyway and would attempt to use local services as far as possible.


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## BoilingFrog

"Bevdeforges, post: 15310335, member: 3345"]

Thank you, it looks like the grants are also means tested against income, so not sure how we would relate to those requirements as well at the time.
I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but i am looking at trying to find a gite complex, or at least something with the potential to become one, so expect to have to do some renovation work and obviously hope to limit the extent to which I need to pay other people to do work. TBH as I found in the UK, whatever grants were fleetingly available for eg loft insulation i couldn't get anyway, so just paid for it myself. I am pretty confident that added value/saleability aside the insulation paid for itself pretty quickly with energy prices where they are. But obviously if money can be accessed it would help, provided access is not too onerous or strings too restrictive (the grants seem to require 5 years residence after work is complete)


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## Befuddled

Getting a break on the cost of the insulation materials would be worthwhile as it is so much more expensive here. Pre-Brexit I knew several people who brought van loads of it from UK and often the savings paid for the trip.


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## SPGW

"How are price increases affecting refurb costs in France? I know in the UK the differences are quite marked, due to Covid and Brexit, and some things are still hard to get in any quantity without ordering/waiting.
Is there a resource online anywhere to compare costs (roughly) to UK prices?"

Hello James - price increases are drastically affecting refurb costs, and it is made worse by unavailability of the good specialist artisans and some materials or components. As said above - to benefit from any rebate (eg energy efficiency) the work has to be done by an accredited artisan. I have an example of an estimate accepted in 2020 having a 10% increase for cost of materials for work eventually done in 2021 due to delays caused by other interventions. There is so much variability of prices and availability within France - I am not aware of any reliable cost comparator online, other than manual searches, especially comparing to UK (not that I would be sourcing anything from UK, so haven't really looked).

Good luck.


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## Befuddled

The situation is certainly worth looking at if someone is planning anything major. I am only halfway through renovating our place after about ten years. The concept of paying artisans to do the work for me was never part of the plan. I have been doing it all myself. The limiting factor has been having to wait for the pension arriving each month to see how much there is left over that I can spend on materials. Recently I bought some flooring for the lounge. During the four days it took us to decide which colour to order the price went up 5%. A piece of mdf went up from €9.32 to €10.50 in the same period of time. Many sources haven't been bothering to keep their websites up to date regarding what is "Disponible" so often there is a wasted journey to be shown the "French Shrug" upon arrival. Anyone considering renovating will need to buy as much as possible in one go if they have somewhere dry and secure to store it. Buying piecemeal will result in budget disaster.


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## SPGW

Yup, we’re 3 years in, and going piecemeal, so a bit of a budget disaster. Got some stuff in early, but security was a concern - some went missing. You are right to mention it. Trail cameras now installed.
Heavy or technical work we can’t do ourselves ( timber, masonry, electrical) - good to see the reduced (10 or 5.5% ) TVA on materials and the 10yr guarantee, not to mention work efficiency compared to DIY, mine at least😉


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