# Architect fees for renovation



## paulsidneyward (May 2, 2018)

I have bought an apartment in the center of Alicante and I want to do some remodeling inside. Removing some light/non-structural walls and putting on new tiles and laminate floor. I have had two architects offering to help me get the licence - both asking about 6000 euros. I have already done the plans in an architect program on my PC. I am doing most of the work myself.

1. Does this seem excessive?

2. I am assuming this would be considered minor work since I am not changing the size of the structure or doing anything to the outside.

3. Does it have to be an architect who submits the plans to city hall? If not what are the requirements of what is submitted and who submits it.

I don't have a problem paying taxes for the license or a reasonable amount for the work done dealing with the bureaucracy which I hate even if I speak the language. 

Any help with this would be VERY appreciated as it is driving me up the wall!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

paulsidneyward said:


> I have bought an apartment in the center of Alicante and I want to do some remodeling inside. Removing some light/non-structural walls and putting on new tiles and laminate floor. I have had two architects offering to help me get the licence - both asking about 6000 euros. I have already done the plans in an architect program on my PC. I am doing most of the work myself.
> 
> 1. Does this seem excessive?
> 
> ...


As soon as you talk about removing walls, you move out of minor works and into major works and you up the cost. The local authority will want proper documentation before granting a licence and that will mean involving a professional so you will have to pay for it. They will not accept the word of a non-recognised professional because, if anything happens to go wrong and that means 'anything' it will not be on the heads of those at the local authority but on the architect.


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## paulsidneyward (May 2, 2018)

Thanks for the reply. Not what I wanted to hear obviously but still - better to get it confirmed.


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## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

paulsidneyward said:


> Thanks for the reply. Not what I wanted to hear obviously but still - better to get it confirmed.


I still think 6K is a rip off. London architects do not charge half of that for this sort of job. 
Keep shopping.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I have no idea if 6k is a reasonable price or not, but you do need to get licences and to get a licence for knocking down walls you need an architect. Neighbours could inform the police about work being done and the police do spot checks sometimes. Before you pay out, you should go to the town hall to make enquiries to make sure that they will give a licence for what you want to do once you have got all the paperwork together. In the area where I live I was told that no more licences for remodelling could be issued for example.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Robors2 said:


> I still think 6K is a rip off. London architects do not charge half of that for this sort of job.
> Keep shopping.


but London architects do not project manage the job from start to finish.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I doubt the OP wants or needs a project manager though, the town hall may sing a different tune however.



Pesky Wesky said:


> In the area where I live I was told that no more licences for remodelling could be issued for example.


If you ask why will you get a reasonable answer?
I'll take an actual answer too.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> I doubt the OP wants or needs a project manager though, the *town hall may sing a different tune* however.


It may well be that the Ayuntamiento makes it a condition of the licence since many, if not most, Aytos. are well aware that foreigners will take short cuts and avoid complying with the terms of the licence where they think they can get away with it.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Been there. Done it.

I refurbed my 80 sq m flat in central VLC city in late 2016. It involved knocking out two interior walls, removing tiles from kitchen and bathroom walls and floor, total rewire from consumer unit onwards, install gas supply, gas water boiler, gas hob, A/C, laminate flooring, false ceiling in sitting room, new sanitary ware, new kitchen units - the Full Monty. Nothing in my flat exists from the previous version except the windows.

My abogada recommended an architect. I got his estimate of fees. The result was this 

_"I am sorry to say that I have decided to continue the project without your help. My project is very small. It is the sort of project I would do 80% myself, in UK, with an electrician and plumber doing the work that I am not formally qualified to do. 

It is true to say that in UK we do not have 1/5 the 'docamenti' that the Spanish system requires, even for very small and simple renovations. I have now assembled a team that can handle this project without the expense of a qualified architect.

It may be that there are matters that can only be addressed by the attention of a qualified architect. If that is the case I hope I may refer to you to deal with those matters. "_

I can't find the letter - it may have been posted rater than email - that detailed his fees. My recollection is that the total was about €3500, fully managed.

But an architect was necessary to complete the dreaded 'Declacion de Responsibilidad. Typo ll'. This wretched piece of papel did not exist when I briefed the builder in May 2016 but by the time he quoted, in July, it did. He would not lay a lump hammer to a brick before seeing it for himself, all signed off.

The architect pulled a bit of a fast one, clawing back some of his lost fees, perhaps, by charging €150 + IVA for a 'floor certificate'. This was supposedly a calculation on the loading to the floor, although he knew that I was _eliminating _TWO layers of tiles, to be replaced by 7mm laminado.

Filling in his bit of the Typo ll was €350 and supplying a plan of the flat and the building location was €100. Both + IVA.

The fees and charges at the Ayunt brought the total for the Typo ll to €1260. Some of this was a flat fee, some a % of cost of project. Contractors quotes must be attached to the Typo ll submission. 

You have the opportunity, then, to make absolutely sure that your quotes are free of any fancy stuff - or even necessary stuff, if it doesn't look silly without it. Maybe you might go with the original bathroom, after all .... And don't mention the floor! 

Thank goodness I realised early doors that the architect's recommendation to replace the windows with modern double glazed ones was not necessary. The cost of custom building 4 largish casement windows would have been enormous. That would have added a lot to the % charge and I expect that deleting it would have been difficult and time consuming.

At 6€, the permit for a skip in the street was astonishingly cheap.

Having rebuilt the interior of a Victorian 2 bed, 2 recep terraced house in UK, I got on fine with my team. The Screwfix catalogue, which I had to hand, was ideal for the occasions when the word for a grobbet/emfobigator was tricky to translate ...

Best of luck.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Beware mice eating your hob manual.

Beware working your fingers down to the bone

Beware the kitchen fitter putting a screw into the hot water pipe ...

Get the boss on his knees, bolting down the khazi.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> I doubt the OP wants or needs a project manager though, the town hall may sing a different tune however.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was just 'cos there was a limit on the number of licences and all had been given out... Weird. We went away and did the work anyway for all the grief that it may cause us in the future. We live in an urb where the houses were originally almost all owned as weekend/ summer houses for people from Madrid. We moved in just as transport/ roads improved and it was possible to live here and work in Madrid. I would say almost 100% of the houses have been altered in some way and ours was not going to be any different.


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