# No.1 Sin- Please help



## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

It has taken me a over a week to admit that I seem to have committed the no. 1 sin -using the lawyer from the Estate Agent I am buying the property from. 
I feel so embarrassed. 
I was not pressurised at all, but it just seemed so convenient. 
I have met the lawyer in person and he assures me that everything is going to plan. I have visited a notary here in the UK to give Power of Attorney to my Spanish lawyer, but the document has not yet been forwarded to him in Spain.
Can you tell me what I must be more diligent about? Has anyone had a good experience in this situation?
A little word of comfort might help me to sleep tonight!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Agapito said:


> It has taken me a over a week to admit that I seem to have committed the no. 1 sin -using the lawyer from the Estate Agent I am buying the property from.
> I feel so embarrassed.
> I was not pressurised at all, but it just seemed so convenient.
> I have met the lawyer in person and he assures me that everything is going to plan. I have visited a notary here in the UK to give Power of Attorney to my Spanish lawyer, but the document has not yet been forwarded to him in Spain.
> ...


It's not too late to change abogado/gestor.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Agapito said:


> It has taken me a over a week to admit that I seem to have committed the no. 1 sin -using the lawyer from the Estate Agent I am buying the property from.
> I feel so embarrassed.
> I was not pressurised at all, but it just seemed so convenient.
> I have met the lawyer in person and he assures me that everything is going to plan. I have visited a notary here in the UK to give Power of Attorney to my Spanish lawyer, but the document has not yet been forwarded to him in Spain.
> ...


Hi and welcome.
You clearly have doubts, so act on them as there are shed loads of other propertys/solicitors to take their place.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Agapito said:


> It has taken me a over a week to admit that I seem to have committed the no. 1 sin -using the lawyer from the Estate Agent I am buying the property from.
> I feel so embarrassed.
> I was not pressurised at all, but it just seemed so convenient.
> I have met the lawyer in person and he assures me that everything is going to plan. I have visited a notary here in the UK to give Power of Attorney to my Spanish lawyer, but the document has not yet been forwarded to him in Spain.
> ...


Oh don't worry about it, apparantly I have done far far worse, I bought two properties on sepeate occasions and never went near a lawyer


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

*No. 1 Sin*



snikpoh said:


> It's not too late to change abogado/gestor.


I guess it's easier said than done, especially as money has been transferred


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

*No. 1 Sin*



playamonte said:


> Hi and welcome.
> You clearly have doubts, so act on them as there are shed loads of other propertys/solicitors to take their place.


I really didn't have any doubts until I joined this forum. It has been an education for me. I respect all your views.


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

Hepa said:


> Oh don't worry about it, apparantly I have done far far worse, I bought two properties on sepeate occasions and never went near a lawyer


 Thank you so much Hepa for a little word of comfort. 
After reading some of the warnings on this forum, you have been fortunate. Long may your luck continue.

Perhaps if I know the specific problems to watch out for that may help.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Agapito said:


> It has taken me a over a week to admit that I seem to have committed the no. 1 sin -using the lawyer from the Estate Agent I am buying the property from.
> I feel so embarrassed.
> I was not pressurised at all, but it just seemed so convenient.
> I have met the lawyer in person and he assures me that everything is going to plan. I have visited a notary here in the UK to give Power of Attorney to my Spanish lawyer, but the document has not yet been forwarded to him in Spain.
> ...


When we moved to Spain we had our own lawyer. We were encouraged to use the builders lawyer, but decided against it. Now, we did the right thing, but we later got to know the other lawyer and he would have been good just the same


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

We did exactly the same as you….. and thank goodness we did! When we came over here (four & a half years ago now) an estate agent was recommended to us and we used the abogado that she recommended. Since then we have become good friends with Sarah & Bill at “Spanish Hideaways” in Arboleas…….. and I know that’s a plug but they deserve it because they they’re lovely people and as honest as the day is long which may sound a bit odd reading all the horror stories but I can only speak as I find.

But now we come to the thorny subject of abogados here in Spain when buying a house. When you buy a house in blighty the solicitor handles everything, gives you a big bill at the end of it then job done. Here in Spain it’s different, you have to ask the abogado to do the things you want sorting over & above the basics. This is where a lot of immigrants, particularly British, drop themselves in it because, basically, they don’t know what to ask for & that’s where our estate agent proved her worth.

I know this is probably small comfort to you because we’re talking about different people but we did it “the wrong way” and have a fully legal house ( as much as you can have here with the Junta de Andalucia’s goalpost moving antics) and very good friends.

The best of luck to you.

Doggy


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

Thank you so much owdoggy.
Our estate agent did not oversell, did not encourage one way or another, was just factual. 
The lawyer gave me confidence when we met personally and so far everything is going to plan.
Watch this space.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

The biggest problem with using lawyers that estate agents recommend is that often the estate agents are selling properties illegally built on land classified as agricultural rather than urban. Often the lawyer is in it with the estate agent.

Once you've bought one of these properties, the regional authority can insist on it being demolished with no recompense and you will have no comeback against the lawyer who acted for you. 

By far the easiest option is to ensure that the property you purchase is built on land classified as urban.

I would make sure that the lawyer confirms in writing, preferably with a letter in writing from the regional authority (like Andalucia for example) that the property is in fact built on land classified as urban.

The other thing you need the lawyer to watch out for is that all debts accrued on the property are paid when you take ownership of it. Unlike in the UK, in Spain debts acrue on the property - not the individual owner and you will be liable for them if they remain unpaid when you take ownership.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Agapito said:


> It has taken me a over a week to admit that I seem to have committed the no. 1 sin -using the lawyer from the Estate Agent I am buying the property from.
> I feel so embarrassed.
> A little word of comfort might help me to sleep tonight!


Actually, not all Spanish lawyers are crooks and thieves.
Can't help you with specifics to look out for.
We didn't use a lawyer when we bought, but OH is Spanish.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We used the agent's lawyer and had no problems at all but SWMBO speaks Spanish fluently. She is now a very good friend and put SWMBO in touch with the academy for whom SWMBO now works. SWMBO is often called in for translations/interpretations for the abogado as well.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Actually, not all Spanish lawyers are crooks and thieves.
> Can't help you with specifics to look out for.
> We didn't use a lawyer when we bought, but OH is Spanish.


I feel I should put a PS here though...
PS I'd agree however with the advice that others have given of not using the lawyer from the Estate Agent you are buying the property from, if possible.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

zenkarma said:


> The biggest problem with using lawyers that estate agents recommend is that often the estate agents are selling properties illegally built on land classified as agricultural rather than urban. Often the lawyer is in it with the estate agent.
> 
> Once you've bought one of these properties, the regional authority can insist on it being demolished with no recompense and you will have no comeback against the lawyer who acted for you.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice. Until you are absolutely certain that everything is above board, don't complete the purchase. 

Beware of reassurances along the lines of "it will all be sorted out next month when the notary comes back from holiday" to try and get you to complete early. Chances are there's a complication which could take years to resolve - if it was that simple, he'd have done it before he went on holiday!


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

zenkarma said:


> The other thing you need the lawyer to watch out for is that all debts accrued on the property are paid when you take ownership of it. Unlike in the UK, in Spain debts acrue on the property - not the individual owner and you will be liable for them if they remain unpaid when you take ownership.


Is there an easy way to find out what debts are on a property or is it only lawyers that can find out?


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

Thank you all who have take the time to give me information. All your replies are appreciated more that you will know - but I still did not sleep well last night.

We are buying an apartment in a large apartment block in what is called Primera linea so I'm now going to ask my Spanish lawyer about the 'Ley de la Costa'
I have not discussed the classification of urban/ agricultural land. I will now do so.
I have already discussed any debts accrued on the property, and he assures me he is investigating this very seriously.

Tonight I'm going to have a very large glass (or two) of Rioja. Will let you know how it works!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rioja works for me!

If it's an apartment in an existing block I'm sure there won't be any issues with legality. It's usually the country villas where these problems arise.


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Rioja works for me!
> 
> If it's an apartment in an existing block I'm sure there won't be any issues with legality. QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Fantastic news - congratulations.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

As stated earlier, not all lawyers in Spain are crooked but of course on forums like this you are more likely to read the bad news rather than hear about the good news. Generally the advice would be to not use the agents lawyer but that doesn't mean it will go wrong. It may be too late for you but one consideration might be to try and take about a small mortgage with a reputable bank. They will ensure that the property is legal and has no outstanding debts on it before agreeing to lend you the money.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

thrax said:


> As stated earlier, not all lawyers in Spain are crooked but of course on forums like this you are more likely to read the bad news rather than hear about the good news. Generally the advice would be to not use the agents lawyer but that doesn't mean it will go wrong. It may be too late for you but one consideration might be to try and take about a small mortgage with a reputable bank. They will ensure that the property is legal and has no outstanding debts on it before agreeing to lend you the money.


Unfortunately I wouldn't agree with that. There are many properties on bank books that are illegal & they will still offer mortgages on them.Many people on a local forum have been offered mortgages on illegal build


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> Unfortunately I wouldn't agree with that. There are many properties on bank books that are illegal & they will still offer mortgages on them.Many people on a local forum have been offered mortgages on illegal build


Absolutely correct. There's an on-going case where a man is taking his bank to court for supplying a mortgage on an illegal house.


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## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

We are currently buying a house in Malaga and are doing the same as you, the lawyer came highly recommended by the agent and I was very wary, but so far things are going well, I am asking questions and getting the right answers, I also posted the lawyers name on here to see if anyone had any experience of him good or bad, and got a positive response, so that helped. Best of luck to you, hope it all goes well.


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

Spangles 72 said:


> Best of luck to you, hope it all goes well.


Thank you Spangles, equalmente.

I will visit my apartment next week to see what work has been done.
I got three quotations from all contractors, met them all, and obviously being able to speak Spanish helped enormously. As usual, my choice was not determined by money but by my gut instinct. 
I am installing aircon/heating and have just been told I need to have a new electric installation (re-wiring). The apartment block was built in 1980 and apparently the wiring does not conform to regulations so I could have problems in the future. I made a budget for renovation, based on prices here in the UK, and added extra for eventualities like this, but so far painting, floor tiles, aircon/heating, double glazing and new bathroom are below my budget. 
Now I need to think about furniture. 
It has been a worrying time, thinking about everything that could go wrong, and I’m still not out of the woods yet, but so far so good. 
As I have said in previous messages, the confidence of youth dissipates, but ironically I feel good. Must be the porridge!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Agapito said:


> Thank you Spangles, equalmente.


just a pedantic point - it should be "igualmente"


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## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> just a pedantic point - it should be "igualmente"


Thank you Baldilocks. I agree.

My oral castellano is much better than my written.


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