# Drones hunt down 1.7 million tax cheats in Spain



## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Drones hunt down 1.7 million tax cheats in Spain - The Local



> Spain’s tax office has discovered 1.69 million homes that have failed to pay adequate taxes thanks to an extensive air operation using satellites and drones.
> 
> The unmanned aerial vehicles revealed improvements to people’s houses that they had failed to declare to the tax office, such as extensions and swimming pools.
> 
> ...


I heard this story yesterday on the radio and think it not only raises some talking points but can also be seen as a warning to people too.

Now the sheer numbers of tax cheats caught are quite staggering, nearly 1.7 million individual houses have been caught out and they are still conducting more searches as we speak and the numbers will only increase.
I'm hardly surprised by this though as when we were buying practically every single house we came across had this type of problem, so it really shouldn't be news to anyone but just goes to show that when you are buying you certainly need to conduct proper legality checks.

What I think though is somewhat more worrying here is the actual use of drones to carry out this operation. 
We spent far too much time researching properties which included using websites like goolzoom which also gives you the catastral overlays and you can quite easily check the status of properties which I presume is the same thing that the drones are checking so I don't see the point in it really.

Spanish law on drones is so prohibitive that it makes getting one as a hobby somewhat pointless yet the guberment can do as they please.
There are definitely privacy concerns too but it seems that so far there are no wide ranging EU regulations so in this case they are truly flying under the radar here. However there are fairly strict privacy laws here too so how are they legally doing this?

Now I'm all for catching tax cheats but really I wouldn't be comfortable if my neighbour was flying a drone with a camera and certainly wouldn't be happy to have the Nanny state peering over the fence either even if I have nothing to hide it still really is not on.

Like I say these checks can quite easily be done online, it may not be perfect but certainly good enough to catch people out and it would be carried out under existing privacy laws too.

So in the end I don't really know, it is not something that concerns me in the fact that I will get caught out doing something wrong as we are not doing anything wrong but it is something I'm not overly comfortable with either.

Seems to me there are some questions that will likely never be asked over this practice but still, the more you know.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Broadly, I think it is a good idea. I do share your concern over drones.

There is a culture in Spain of doing improvements without paying the taxes The very taxes that our municipalities rely on. There rationale is it doesn't matter as they aren't going to sell their property just hand it down.

Parts of our province are going through a one off programe. The area is covered by planes and the aerial photo taken is compared with your registered details. They then send a revised IBI bill based on those new measurements e.g. a new patio, garage or swimming pool. You have so long to object to their "findings". Quite a good process as the punter gets their house details more regularised ( I daren't use the word legal) and the authority gets more IBI.

The one thing that hasn't changed is the staffing of our catastral office. Only open to the public a few hours each week. Apparently they have a huge backlog. More staff equals faster resolution equals more IBI ?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This is excellent news. Perhaps with the extra IBI revenue generated they will be able to employ more staff!

As for drones and privacy, I think they fly pretty high? There's a sample video of a drone's eye view here.

http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2016/07/26/579621d6e5fdea243f8b4620.html

Spain was one of the first countries to have full Google street view and Goodle Earth coverage so privacy can't be that much of a concern.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm pleased that Spain is at last making real efforts to tackle the embedded culture of tax evasion, and as they have been using aerial photographs for years now to do the catastral checks, I cannot see that using drones instead is vastly different - probably a lot less expensive, too.


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## piersuk (Nov 13, 2015)

I read an article in the Costa Blanca News that Calpe were already employing this and have been for a little while.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

I made a declaration via our local Notary in February this year to inform Catastro that I am not paying sufficient IBI due to extensions and improvements. The declaration included plans by an architect showing the property as it now is, together with a Certificate of Antiquity confirming that the building work is all more than 15 years old. I fully expected to receive a huge bill for back tax but so far nothing more than an official acknowledgement of receipt. They can't be too desperate to collect under-declared tax!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The Skipper said:


> I made a declaration via our local Notary in February this year to inform Catastro that I am not paying sufficient IBI due to extensions and improvements. The declaration included plans by an architect showing the property as it now is, together with a Certificate of Antiquity confirming that the building work is all more than 15 years old. I fully expected to receive a huge bill for back tax but so far nothing more than an official acknowledgement of receipt. They can't be too desperate to collect under-declared tax!


That's a big problem. A non-resident friend recently found out that she hasn't paid IBI on her holiday home since she bought ten years ago (she had been told by a British estate agent that it had all been set up by direct debit, and she never bothered checking). She is really keen to pay it but for some obscure reason they can't issue her a bill that she can just go and pay. They certainly don't make things easy.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Yeah we had something similar to that when we asked to pay our IBI and set up a direct debit, they said they needed a reference number that was on the bill that they had never sent us and without having that number they couldn't do a thing including sending us another copy with that number on it.
In the end we gave up and put our lawyer on to it(actually think it was the lawyers gestor cronies) so it could at least be paid.

We know people who never even realised they had to pay because they have never seen a bill.
Maybe they should spend the money on envelopes and stamps before drones.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Pazcat said:


> Yeah we had something similar to that when we asked to pay our IBI and set up a direct debit, they said they needed a reference number that was on the bill that they had never sent us and without having that number they couldn't do a thing including sending us another copy with that number on it.
> In the end we gave up and put our lawyer on to it(actually think it was the lawyers gestor cronies) so it could at least be paid.
> 
> We know people who never even realised they had to pay because they have never seen a bill.
> Maybe they should spend the money on envelopes and stamps before drones.


Comforting to know it's not just me being ignored! Your story confirms what my architect advised. She said that we would be wasting our time making direct contact with the Catastro office because we would never hear back from them. She said by making the declaration via a Notary they would take notice. Well, at least I have an officially stamped acknowledgement of receipt!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> Yeah we had something similar to that when we asked to pay our IBI and set up a direct debit, they said they needed a reference number that was on the bill that they had never sent us and without having that number they couldn't do a thing including sending us another copy with that number on it.
> In the end we gave up and put our lawyer on to it(actually think it was the lawyers gestor cronies) so it could at least be paid.
> 
> We know people who never even realised they had to pay because they have never seen a bill.
> Maybe they should spend the money on envelopes and stamps before drones.


All our bills are hand-delivered and if there's no one at home, they don't deliver them. Not much help if you're only here a few weeks of the year.

Maybe it's because the longer they go unpaid, the higher the late payment fine? Madness.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> All our bills are hand-delivered and if there's no one at home, they don't deliver them. Not much help if you're only here a few weeks of the year.
> 
> Maybe it's because the longer they go unpaid, the higher the late payment fine? Madness.


Why not pay them via direct debit? Much easier and cheaper!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Why not pay them via direct debit? Much easier and cheaper!


Oh yes, I know ... But not much help if you don't even realise your bills aren't being paid!


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm all for drones if nothing else succeeds, having rented a dangerous villa from a British lady who owns two properties in Pinosol, Javea, and has driven a British registered car and van plated vehicles for several years in Javea, probably never declared any tax for either properties she owns and rents out in Spain, but is still seen as living in the UK, following enquiries of the Inland Revenue that lists directors. Mind you, more fool the Spanish authorities in Javea! Obviously even the Guarda are not bothered or are blind. Even the locals have been seeing these people driving about in their illegal vehicles for years. It makes a fool of the Spanish authorities and makes me ashamed to say I am British.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Gazeebo said:


> I'm all for drones if nothing else succeeds, having rented a dangerous villa from a British lady who owns two properties in Pinosol, Javea, and has driven a British registered car and van plated vehicles for several years in Javea, probably never declared any tax for either properties she owns and rents out in Spain, but is still seen as living in the UK, following enquiries of the Inland Revenue that lists directors. Mind you, more fool the Spanish authorities in Javea! Obviously even the Guarda are not bothered or are blind. Even the locals have been seeing these people driving about in their illegal vehicles for years. It makes a fool of the Spanish authorities and makes me ashamed to say I am British.


Hope you have let the Hacienda know!
Unless there is a denuncia to Trafico, she will keep driving around in her illegal cars


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

extranjero said:


> Hope you have let the Hacienda know!
> Unless there is a denuncia to Trafico, she will keep driving around in her illegal cars


No I haven't, as she has my home address!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Gazeebo said:


> No I haven't, as she has my home address!


She need never know it was you. The police won't tell her the source of the denuncia.


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