# My experience of the healthcare system.



## craigcompaneros (Feb 15, 2011)

My mum went to our local health centre in Alora at the end of October with a swollen stomach and pain. Her doctor came accross rude and uncaring, it took 7 weeks to identify tumour markers in my mums blood. We saw a specialist in Hospital Virgen de la Victoria in Malaga 9 days later. We had to wait 10 hours in the emergency department for mum to be admitted for a CT scan the following week. We then had to wait 3 weeks for the hospital to do a CT scan. At this point they had found a lesion on her colon, fluid on her stomach and cleared her of any other problems. They then did a laparoscopy. 2 weeks later they told us that mum had ovarian cancer. She was given morphine patches and advised to cut them in half to increase the dosage. Mum ended up back in Hospital Virgen de la Victoria on January 17 when her kidneys started to fail and she could not look after herself. We again had to spend 10 hours waiting to be admitted to the observation department. Three days later she was diagnosed with a chest infection which the doctor said was most probably caused by the laparoscopy. She was then told she had a blood clot on her lung. Treatment was started straight away and although the treatment was excellent, the attitude and helpfulness of the staff was not. She improved enough that they started her on chemotherapy Monday January 31. Although she did not have many side effects from the treatment, she was scared and depressed mostly due to the lack of compassion of the staff, waiting sometimes 2 hours for pain relief or to be cleaned as she was incontinent. She could not get herself out of bed but the doctors (all 3 that came round on almost alternate days) refused to get her assessed by a physiotherapist. By the Thursday she had become extremely weak and tired with spells of confusion and dizziness which I was assured was normal by the nurse. At 12:30am Saturday morning she died. The blood clot was initial cause of death followed by neutropenia and kidney failure caused by cancer of the ovary and the lining of the colon. We (me and my dad) were then told to clear the room of her things while she lay in a body bag on the bed. We were then informed that the hospital would not store the body for more than a couple of hours and we would had to arrange her funeral and have it removed by a funeral director there and then. Apart from one of the doctors, we received no works of sympathy or any respect from any member of staff. Is it wrong for us to feel let down by healthcare system here?


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

craigcompaneros said:


> ....... Apart from one of the doctors, we received no works of sympathy or any respect from any member of staff. Is it wrong for us to feel let down by healthcare system here?


Certainly not. Having just had a very close bereavement I cannot imagine what you must be feeling. While my brother (my mother's carer) questions odd decisions made by district nurses no one would say that things were not done in a timely and thoughtful/considerate way at all times - and that is a comfort. 

Thoughts with you Craig and I hope by publicising this you may encourage some corrective action in the future. Perhaps someone here might have some suggestions of how to go about that.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Certainly not. Having just had a very close bereavement I cannot imagine what you must be feeling. While my brother (my mother's carer) questions odd decisions made by district nurses no one would say that things were not done in a timely and thoughtful/considerate way at all times - and that is a comfort.
> 
> Thoughts with you Craig and I hope by publicising this you may encourage some corrective action in the future. Perhaps someone here might have some suggestions of how to go about that.


Deepest sympathies Craig, I too believe you are doing the right thing by publicising the dreadful treatment your mother received. Have you been in touch with Age Concern España? They may know of similar cases where action has been taken, or campaigns to tackle this issue. They have a branch in Estepona or you can contact them via their website.
About Age Concern


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

What a terrible story - and if only it was that, a story and not real life. 
You probably feel completely drained, but if you can I would encourage you to make a formal complaint. They have complaint forms at hospitals. There are also "defensores del paciente" but I don't know how it works and you could also try telling your story to the local OMIC.
My daughter's life has been saved by the medical attention she has received here - not once, but twice, so I won't be complaining. However, as I have said before on other threads, there was a definite lack of bedside manner, sympathy, empathy from all but one member of the hospital staff on both occasions. It's something I've never been able to reconcile with the Spanish attitude to children. They love them to bits on the street. Put them in a hospital and they become as hard as nails!
Again, very sorry that you have to tell this sad story about your Mum.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Craig, Condolences on your loss. I am sorry that you had bad experiences with the healthcare system here in Spain.

I am currently going through major treatments at a Spanish hospital and my experiences are completely the opposite to what you experienced.

I have been so impressed by the sympathetic treatment I have received from all the staff at San Juan, Alicante hospital. I have found that the whole experience is far better than the equivalent in the UK.

With regard to when your mother died, I have to say that many people are not aware of the system here in Spain. Unless you make alternative arrangements beforehand, when someone dies the funeral normally takes place within 48 hours.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Here's the webpage for the "Defensores del paciente". It's a bit "wild" with about a million things on it, but the email and telephone number are at the top of the page. If your Spanish isn't very good, personally I'd write a short mail in English saying your mum died in hospital and you'd lke to make a complaint. I reckon somebody would get back to you...
Asociación el Defensor del Paciente - Negligencia Médica


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## craigcompaneros (Feb 15, 2011)

The thought of making a complaint (especially in Spain) is not too appealing at the moment, maybe things will change in the soon. I just want to warn and make people aware of how hard it could be to die with any kind of dignity in Spain. I knew that a funeral normally took place within 48hours but to have us remove her body from the hospital at around 3am saying the hospital was too large and busy to store it? 

I find it so hard to believe the lack of any urgency but mostly the lack of bed side manner from all but a couple of people which made the last three weeks of my mum's life hell. It makes you feel not only like the hospital let us down but that we also let mum down by not getting her out of there, thinking that she would make it home and it would all be worth it. 

Thank you to everyone that has replied to this thread. It makes it slightly easier to know we are not the only ones who believe this treatment is unacceptable.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

craigcompaneros said:


> The thought of making a complaint (especially in Spain) is not too appealing at the moment, maybe things will change in the soon. I just want to warn and make people aware of how hard it could be to die with any kind of dignity in Spain.


Of course, it was just if you felt that was what you wanted to do.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*Hospitals*

You tend to hear two contrasting stories - one in which the service is the best in the world and the unfortunate alternative where treatment and care has been appalling. Spanish friends of mine say that the only way to get reasonable treatment is to continuously moan to the staff and if someone is ill or can't speak the language they don't stand much hope. It would appear that there is very little to be done - a Spanish lawyer told me that although the complaints procedure appears to be in place, it is an illusion and very rarely has a case for medical negligence succeeded. It won't surprise you to know that cases that did eventually reach court couldn't continue because the notes were mislaid! As far as bodies are concerned the Spanish seem to exercise indecent haste to get them into the ground. I suppose this is a throwback to being a hot country but since then refridgerators have been invented!!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

craigcompaneros said:


> The thought of making a complaint (especially in Spain) is not too appealing at the moment, maybe things will change in the soon. I just want to warn and make people aware of how hard it could be to die with any kind of dignity in Spain. I knew that a funeral normally took place within 48hours but to have us remove her body from the hospital at around 3am saying the hospital was too large and busy to store it?
> 
> I find it so hard to believe the lack of any urgency but mostly the lack of bed side manner from all but a couple of people which made the last three weeks of my mum's life hell. It makes you feel not only like the hospital let us down but that we also let mum down by not getting her out of there, thinking that she would make it home and it would all be worth it.
> 
> Thank you to everyone that has replied to this thread. It makes it slightly easier to know we are not the only ones who believe this treatment is unacceptable.


My sincere condolences. I am so sorry to hear about your mum's story. It sounds horrendous and is completely unacceptable. Obviously now is not the time to focus on making a complaint but in case you do want to make one in the future, perhaps now would be the time to make a note of any other details while they are fresh in your mind. 

I hope that once you have had more time to come to terms with your loss that in the future you do make a complaint. Despite what Calas Felices has said, fighting injustice is never a waste of time. It may help others in the future. There is a famous quote (cant remember who by) which says something along the lines of "For evil to triumph, all that is required is for good men to do nothing." It can not help your mum but it could prevent someone else suffering in the same way.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> As far as bodies are concerned the Spanish seem to exercise indecent haste to get them into the ground. I suppose this is a throwback to being a hot country but since then refridgerators have been invented!!


A tanatorio will keep your loved one as long as you (or your policy) are willing to cover. They will also do just about everything from pick up at location of death to final burial/cremation and paperwork/certification.

There are limits obviously as there are anywhere else. Refrigiration does exist but deep freeze doesn't.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

craigcompaneros said:


> My mum went to our local health centre in Alora at the end of October with a swollen stomach and pain. Her doctor came accross rude and uncaring, it took 7 weeks to identify tumour markers in my mums blood. We saw a specialist in Hospital Virgen de la Victoria in Malaga 9 days later. We had to wait 10 hours in the emergency department for mum to be admitted for a CT scan the following week. We then had to wait 3 weeks for the hospital to do a CT scan. At this point they had found a lesion on her colon, fluid on her stomach and cleared her of any other problems.........


I'm so sorry you had such incredibly bad treatment. I can't ever understand how these people can become so detatched and be so robotic when it comes to people's feelings and general wellbeing.

You should defenetely take this up with the "Delegacion Provincial de la Seguridad Social". Even if it means hiring a lawyer for the cost of an official letter of complaint to the inspector in charge of the region at the said head office. The "forms of complaint" are a waste of time, but official letters, registered, to inspectors of the system, are not and generally do get far better results.

As others have said, it won't help your Mum, but it might help many others and leave you feeling like you've managed to get a load of your chest once your solicitor gets some sort of reply. At least you acknowlege that they know now what happened during that period of horrendous care and service and it's not the usual funcionario crap of delivering bad service by force and talking of excellence because the reality never reaches "the management".

Xose


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## dinnow (Feb 14, 2011)

Caz.I said:


> "For evil to triumph, all that is required is for good men to do nothing."


Edmund Burke (January 12, 1729 – July 9, 1797) Irish philosopher (oxymoron?) and Whig politician


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm so sorry for your loss and what you've been thru. I've had some issues with this sort of thing in the UK with both my parents. In the end, theres nothing you can do, nothing you can say - its just so infuriating and desperately sad, emotions range from anger, sorrow, hurt to disbelief and everything inbetween. All you can hope for is that lessons are learnt.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, I hope that everyone posting on this thread keep on topic and that we remain respectful

Jo xxxx


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## robert587599 (Feb 20, 2011)

As my wife of 42 years lay dying [her last 5 minutes[ a nurse pushed her bed around to make space for another patient--because they would have an empty bed soon!!! When I went a little ballistic I was informed that to verbally abuse a public servant would get me arrested!! By this time my darling was dead! There was No No NO interest shown by any doctor,nurse and no senior manager came. The doctor who was to sign the deathe certificate even threatened to NOT sign it. I GAVE UP!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

robert587599 said:


> As my wife of 42 years lay dying [her last 5 minutes[ a nurse pushed her bed around to make space for another patient--because they would have an empty bed soon!!! When I went a little ballistic I was informed that to verbally abuse a public servant would get me arrested!! By this time my darling was dead! There was No No NO interest shown by any doctor,nurse and no senior manager came. The doctor who was to sign the deathe certificate even threatened to NOT sign it. I GAVE UP!!


How horrible - no need for that level of insensitivity, no matter how stretched the staff were. Was that in Spain or the UK?


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## robert587599 (Feb 20, 2011)

Spain. The same hospital where I was told -during a medical test-WE do not care how long you have lived in Spain-you are a foreigner! Since I have no other relatives I will remain here -forever.


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