# Maybe moving back to NZ after 25 years



## mortirolo

I left NZ in 1987 (now 47 years old), firstly I went to Sydney where I lived until 1991, fed up with Australia (no jobs at that time and the high Aussie taxes) and meeting a lot of other kiwis who traveled, I left for the US then headed over to Europe where i have lived in London since 1992. 

During my time I've married, my wife has brought up 3 boys! I usually visit NZ every 4-5 years. My wife is from Argentina, we are thinking about heading back to NZ after all this time, my parents are getting older and would like to be around family more especially when I have no immediate family here nor my wife..she doesn't want to live in Argentina.

I found NZ extremely expensive last time I went 5 years ago, its was cheaper here in London to buy NZ wine like £5 same bottle $30 in NZ, crazy. NZ butter is cheaper in London £1.50 than in NZ, basics like milk is cheaper, energy prices are cheaper in London still. Generally eating out in London is cheaper, if you go to places like Carluccios, Zizzi or a local Indian. A great curry with beers etc still only costs £40 for 2 people. But London mortgage/rent is the killer! like any big city i suppose.

We are after the quiet life, it could be Portugal or Italy. But we feel NZ would be nice. I have a few questions before we ultimately decide to head back to NZ.

Jobs - are IT jobs or any job easy to come by in NZ? for expats now.

Culture - I'm sure the culture has changed a lot in NZ since I left, is it more multi-culture now? which why myself & my wife love London, where you can hear different languages connecting all the time, we have Greek, Italian, Chinese, Jewish, African, Irish, French in my London borough. 

Government - when I left if your were Labour or National party, that's it you won or lost, now with all this MMP stuff is confuses the hell of out me! I mean would any other government in the world have a Green Party as a third party!!! NZ sounds more of a socialist country now to me??? Maybe the system works better now, please tell me!

Would we miss the hub of a big city, driving to Belgium for the weekend or a 2 week summer holiday in Italy with the kids, 30C every day great food. This is what worries me, is the change back to NZ too dramatic for someone who has lived most most of his life in London/Europe. Sitting back in fantastic NZ surroundings, looking out to the ocean, quiet life in NZ is great but when I was young all I wanted to do was leave and see the bigger world. I simply found NZ too boring too far away. I'm hoping that will change now that I'm older! But now I thinking about my young kids will it be better for them, the main reason. they are between 6-10 years old.

Anyway enough rambling....any comments........or similar experiences moving back to NZ after a long time.......please share.


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## topcat83

mortirolo said:


> I left NZ in 1987 (now 47 years old), firstly I went to Sydney where I lived until 1991, fed up with Australia (no jobs at that time and the high Aussie taxes) and meeting a lot of other kiwis who traveled, I left for the US then headed over to Europe where i have lived in London since 1992.
> 
> During my time I've married, my wife has brought up 3 boys! I usually visit NZ every 4-5 years. My wife is from Argentina, we are thinking about heading back to NZ after all this time, my parents are getting older and would like to be around family more especially when I have no immediate family here nor my wife..she doesn't want to live in Argentina.
> 
> I found NZ extremely expensive last time I went 5 years ago, its was cheaper here in London to buy NZ wine like £5 same bottle $30 in NZ, crazy. NZ butter is cheaper in London £1.50 than in NZ, basics like milk is cheaper, energy prices are cheaper in London still. Generally eating out in London is cheaper, if you go to places like Carluccios, Zizzi or a local Indian. A great curry with beers etc still only costs £40 for 2 people. But London mortgage/rent is the killer! like any big city i suppose.
> 
> We are after the quiet life, it could be Portugal or Italy. But we feel NZ would be nice. I have a few questions before we ultimately decide to head back to NZ.


Hi there - let's see if I can give you my call on your questions



> Jobs - are IT jobs or any job easy to come by in NZ? for expats now.


 it really depends on your experience and where you are prepared to live. You're looking at Auckland or Wellington mainly, with some in Hamilton & Christchurch. Look at SEEK - New Zealand's no.1 jobs, employment, career and recruitment site to see what's available



> Culture - I'm sure the culture has changed a lot in NZ since I left, is it more multi-culture now? which why myself & my wife love London, where you can hear different languages connecting all the time, we have Greek, Italian, Chinese, Jewish, African, Irish, French in my London borough.


Oh yes - Auckland reminds me of London in many ways. 



> Government - when I left if your were Labour or National party, that's it you won or lost, now with all this MMP stuff is confuses the hell of out me! I mean would any other government in the world have a Green Party as a third party!!! NZ sounds more of a socialist country now to me??? Maybe the system works better now, please tell me!


Lol - one of the things I like is MMP - what a travesty (IMHO) to have a FPP system where a party can get a high percentage of the population voting for them and hardly any representation?) I actually like a government that doesn't have absolute power. NZ is generally fairly middle of the road, so I think a coalition works here where it wouldn't in a country of extremes 9such as Israel). But I voted Green - so I'm one of your third party members  And in a country that relies so heavily on its farming and tourism, I think we need a green voice...



> Would we miss the hub of a big city, driving to Belgium for the weekend or a 2 week summer holiday in Italy with the kids, 30C every day great food. This is what worries me, is the change back to NZ too dramatic for someone who has lived most most of his life in London/Europe. Sitting back in fantastic NZ surroundings, looking out to the ocean, quiet life in NZ is great but when I was young all I wanted to do was leave and see the bigger world. I simply found NZ too boring too far away. I'm hoping that will change now that I'm older! But now I thinking about my young kids will it be better for them, the main reason. they are between 6-10 years old.


My husband was a city-ite - and was very nervous about moving to NZ. He found everything he needed in a city in Auckland. Then 4 years later we moved to deepest countryside! (it's the green in me  )



> Anyway enough rambling....any comments........or similar experiences moving back to NZ after a long time.......please share.


have a browse of the Forum - there will be lots of information here. And I'm sure there will be replies from others about their experiences too...


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## BigKiwiDave

Hi there

I'd lived in London since 1989, so find your questions quite amusing. I've moved back to NZ only 7 weeks ago. You're either ready to come 'home' or you're not. Maybe London is your 'home' now. 

I do find it amazing that (and I've heard it enough to pass comment) Kiwi's who've been away overseas, and have holiday'd back in NZ when the dollar was 3 to the pound, now remark about how 'expensive' NZ has become. Yes, you can buy a certain NZ wine, when it's on sale at Sainsburys, cheaper than in Countdown in NZ, but you also get more than a few NZ wines on sale in NZ, and when it's on sale it's cheaper than in London. Guess what? Petrol is cheaper in NZ, and by quite some way. That's just one example. And in a few weeks, your train/tube fares will face another massive hike, but the timetable will be the same, and they will still cancel trains, and some won't turn up at all. Oh dear. But at least a pound of butter is cheaper!

The NZ dollar is stronger now. Sorry mate! 

No doubt you're aware that NZ is always looking out for it's talent to come home.

Best of luck with your decision.


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## anski

I lived in NZ (Auckland) 2001-2009 & the last 2 years were spent in Cyprus & Tenerife. We travelled around Europe a lot & I made several trips to England.

Yes I did find food cheaper in UK than most of Europe, in fact I kept a spreadsheet of our expenses in both Cyprus & Tenerife & what a surprise I found my cost of living much the same as it had been in NZ. So NZ is not as expensive as others say. 
Some things were horribly expensive (like imported beef) & my shopping basket back here in NZ costs the same or less & find I am not limited to pork & chicken.

In NZ if you are a careful shopper you would be amazed what savings there are at the moment.
Wines are constantly discounted & although Sav Blanc's are the "in" wine there are still bargains to be had & I noticed a shopper in front of me at the checkout had bought several bottles of good Aussie Chardonnay for $3.99! 


Yes eating out was cheaper in the UK at some places, but sorry I could not live there even if it had the cheapest cost of living in the world. The reasons being in my opinion are 
1) it is too crowded, has too much traffic (the M1 was a nightmare) 
2) terrible weather & summers are unpredictable. 
3) Travel in England is exorbitant. I was appalled at how much bus fares were just for short distances.

I realise it is cheap & easy to travel to & from the rest of Europe, there is a bigger choice of shops etc, but that still would not entice me back. I left the UK as a child in 1954 & am grateful I have had the chance to live in some amazing places since then.

Twice I have tried to live in the UK but on both occasions I left after a year for all the reasons above. My 80 year old sister has lived all her life there & after a few days visiting her I feel so depressed I cannot wait to board the plane.

NZ will never be England & I am so grateful for that.

As for whether you would find NZ fulfilling it is up to each individual. I am sure you would find employment as there is a skills shortage. 

Your children would certainly benefit from the fresh air & freedom to go out & play most of the year, and you cannot put a price on that.


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## mortirolo

BigKiwiDave said:


> Hi there
> 
> I'd lived in London since 1989, so find your questions quite amusing. I've moved back to NZ only 7 weeks ago. You're either ready to come 'home' or you're not. Maybe London is your 'home' now.
> 
> I do find it amazing that (and I've heard it enough to pass comment) Kiwi's who've been away overseas, and have holiday'd back in NZ when the dollar was 3 to the pound, now remark about how 'expensive' NZ has become. Yes, you can buy a certain NZ wine, when it's on sale at Sainsburys, cheaper than in Countdown in NZ, but you also get more than a few NZ wines on sale in NZ, and when it's on sale it's cheaper than in London. Guess what? Petrol is cheaper in NZ, and by quite some way. That's just one example. And in a few weeks, your train/tube fares will face another massive hike, but the timetable will be the same, and they will still cancel trains, and some won't turn up at all. Oh dear. But at least a pound of butter is cheaper!
> 
> The NZ dollar is stronger now. Sorry mate!
> 
> No doubt you're aware that NZ is always looking out for it's talent to come home.
> 
> Best of luck with your decision.



I cycle to work, 40 minutes, have done for 10 years. Can't bare the tube, though sometimes if I go out in the evening then I have no choice. 

I can remember in 2001 its was 26 pence to the $. As you say not anymore, I don' think the £ will recover for a few years at least. But I wasn't really one of those kiwis who just kept sending money back or dashed back for holiday every year. But I just found it expensive, even in 2003 I remember when it was 3 to 1. What are the salaries like in NZ though generally?

That's good to know about wine, I only went to Woolworths, cause it was the closest to my families house, I couldn't tell you about Countdown I don't even remember this store! Though is the French or Italian wine cheap? I bet not! Anyway doesn't really matter for me.


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## Jinxy

mortirolo said:


> I left NZ in 1987 (now 47 years old), firstly I went to Sydney where I lived until 1991, fed up with Australia (no jobs at that time and the high Aussie taxes) and meeting a lot of other kiwis who traveled, I left for the US then headed over to Europe where i have lived in London since 1992.
> 
> During my time I've married, my wife has brought up 3 boys! I usually visit NZ every 4-5 years. My wife is from Argentina, we are thinking about heading back to NZ after all this time, my parents are getting older and would like to be around family more especially when I have no immediate family here nor my wife..she doesn't want to live in Argentina.
> 
> I found NZ extremely expensive last time I went 5 years ago, its was cheaper here in London to buy NZ wine like £5 same bottle $30 in NZ, crazy. NZ butter is cheaper in London £1.50 than in NZ, basics like milk is cheaper, energy prices are cheaper in London still. Generally eating out in London is cheaper, if you go to places like Carluccios, Zizzi or a local Indian. A great curry with beers etc still only costs £40 for 2 people. But London mortgage/rent is the killer! like any big city i suppose.
> 
> We are after the quiet life, it could be Portugal or Italy. But we feel NZ would be nice. I have a few questions before we ultimately decide to head back to NZ.
> 
> Jobs - are IT jobs or any job easy to come by in NZ? for expats now.
> 
> Culture - I'm sure the culture has changed a lot in NZ since I left, is it more multi-culture now? which why myself & my wife love London, where you can hear different languages connecting all the time, we have Greek, Italian, Chinese, Jewish, African, Irish, French in my London borough.
> 
> Government - when I left if your were Labour or National party, that's it you won or lost, now with all this MMP stuff is confuses the hell of out me! I mean would any other government in the world have a Green Party as a third party!!! NZ sounds more of a socialist country now to me??? Maybe the system works better now, please tell me!
> 
> Would we miss the hub of a big city, driving to Belgium for the weekend or a 2 week summer holiday in Italy with the kids, 30C every day great food. This is what worries me, is the change back to NZ too dramatic for someone who has lived most most of his life in London/Europe. Sitting back in fantastic NZ surroundings, looking out to the ocean, quiet life in NZ is great but when I was young all I wanted to do was leave and see the bigger world. I simply found NZ too boring too far away. I'm hoping that will change now that I'm older! But now I thinking about my young kids will it be better for them, the main reason. they are between 6-10 years old.
> 
> Anyway enough rambling....any comments........or similar experiences moving back to NZ after a long time.......please share.


We are on a similar position. We lived in Wellington for 5 years, 10 years ago. I have permanent residency and would sponsor My wife and two kids. We are both in our early forties and are looking to move over to NZ next year. We are a bit worried about our age factor and having to start from scratch with mortgages and jobs etc.. as we were hit pretty badly by the recession in Ireland. But we want the best for our children and NZ has a great freedom factor and outdoor space for children.


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## mortirolo

anski said:


> I lived in NZ (Auckland) 2001-2009 & the last 2 years were spent in Cyprus & Tenerife. We travelled around Europe a lot & I made several trips to England.
> 
> Yes I did find food cheaper in UK than most of Europe, in fact I kept a spreadsheet of our expenses in both Cyprus & Tenerife & what a surprise I found my cost of living much the same as it had been in NZ. So NZ is not as expensive as others say.
> Some things were horribly expensive (like imported beef) & my shopping basket back here in NZ costs the same or less & find I am not limited to pork & chicken.
> 
> In NZ if you are a careful shopper you would be amazed what savings there are at the moment.
> Wines are constantly discounted & although Sav Blanc's are the "in" wine there are still bargains to be had & I noticed a shopper in front of me at the checkout had bought several bottles of good Aussie Chardonnay for $3.99!
> 
> 
> Yes eating out was cheaper in the UK at some places, but sorry I could not live there even if it had the cheapest cost of living in the world. The reasons being in my opinion are
> 1) it is too crowded, has too much traffic (the M1 was a nightmare)
> 2) terrible weather & summers are unpredictable.
> 3) Travel in England is exorbitant. I was appalled at how much bus fares were just for short distances.
> 
> I realise it is cheap & easy to travel to & from the rest of Europe, there is a bigger choice of shops etc, but that still would not entice me back. I left the UK as a child in 1954 & am grateful I have had the chance to live in some amazing places since then.
> 
> Twice I have tried to live in the UK but on both occasions I left after a year for all the reasons above. My 80 year old sister has lived all her life there & after a few days visiting her I feel so depressed I cannot wait to board the plane.
> 
> NZ will never be England & I am so grateful for that.
> 
> As for whether you would find NZ fulfilling it is up to each individual. I am sure you would find employment as there is a skills shortage.
> 
> Your children would certainly benefit from the fresh air & freedom to go out & play most of the year, and you cannot put a price on that.


Yes it is crowded, I haven't been up the M1 for years try the M25 its worse! Well I live in Mortlake near Richmond Park probably one of the greenest areas in London, you can cycle around 7 miles of nature park with wild dear and pure calmness. The park gets more cars in the afternoon, riding around on an early summers morning, you can't beat it. Depends where you live in London, some places are awful, like any big city e.g. - New York.

Bus fares are expensive but cheaper with an Oyster card, yes agree short distances have gone up. Glad you've found the right choice.


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## mortirolo

Jinxy said:


> We are on a similar position. We lived in Wellington for 5 years, 10 years ago. I have permanent residency and would sponsor My wife and two kids. We are both in our early forties and are looking to move over to NZ next year. We are a bit worried about our age factor and having to start from scratch with mortgages and jobs etc.. as we were hit pretty badly by the recession in Ireland. But we want the best for our children and NZ has a great freedom factor and outdoor space for children.


That is a hard choice for you. If you live Wellington it will be expensive, most houses are $600K plus looking around myself, but the Hutt Valley and Upper Hutt look a much cheaper option for you and commute into Wellington easily. If you find jobs I think you can get the ball rolling. Just mortgage interest rates in NZ are high and always have been, unjustified as far as I'm concerned. Energy is expensive in NZ especially gas my mum tells me all the time, its like all places if you can get a good paying job life is easier! Budget from the outset and you'll be fine. I'm seriously considering now moving back.

and yes the greener option is one of the reasons for me and why I'm thinking, children. If you start now it will be fine, another 5 years and that's a different story. I'm in a more fortunate position where we brought a house in NZ sometime ago and rent out. 

Good luck....love the Irish.


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## anski

mortirolo said:


> Just mortgage interest rates in NZ are high and always have been, unjustified as far as I'm concerned.


Sorry have to disagree with you on that one.

So how much are you paying for mortgages in England? How much interest are the banks paying on your savings?
Kiwibank is offering mortgages for 4 .99% & I am getting only slightly less than that on my savings. I remember when mortgages shot to 18% in Australia & a used car loan was 25%-that's expensive! 




mortirolo said:


> Energy is expensive in NZ especially gas my mum tells me all the time,


Depends what type of system she is using. We have continuous gas hot water, gas cooking & gas central heating system (every room has floor vents) & we maintain minimum of 20c, house is insulated in ceiling & underfloor & faces north/east. The cost for gas & electric & we are quite extravagant is the same as we paid over the year we were in Cyprus but the difference was all our water & central heating (including the pool) was heated by massive solar panels which cost nothing for most of the year because of the hot climate, only required alternative supply when there was no sun which was a few weeks of the year. [/QUOTE]

As for quality of life well that is up to the individual to assess what is important.

I remember living in the UK for the first few years of my life always being sick, no wonder because of living in a small house with several adult smokers & unable to go out & play in winter.
Moving to South Africa my health changed, we lived near the beach & I was always out in the open air. My own children were born & raised in Australia 25km from Sydney in what was then the normal house with a huge backyard & they are much stronger & healthier than their English cousins.

Yes Europe is easily accessed from the UK & once on the mainland of Europe only hours between countries. We toured 14 of them before returning to NZ in September, however my observations were that most of Europe is in a mess financially & will stagnate for years to come possibly dragging others into the quagmire. Parts of Italy had piles of rotting rubbish because the councils were bankrupt. The really hot favourites were full of tourists helping to keep the economy afloat. People in many countries were unemployed,many businesses were struggling to stay open. Crime was rising & more people are frustrated because of the situation. I remember travelling with an Aussie couple who had all their wordly possessions in a London flat in the midst of the riots, & they were really worried what they would find on their return.
England is a nice place to live if you have a high income & can afford to live in a nice area, & take extended holidays when the weather gets you down.

However even that comes at a price, we looked after a country estate, for one of the UK's extremely wealthy CEO's who lives in London & he had 3 armed chauffeurs who each worked 8 hours shifts so he would always have security when arriving or leaving his home. Prior to this he & his wife were robbed of their watches & jewellery at gunpoint just leaving their home to go out to dinner.


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