# New nhs surcharge



## Rocketlenz (Sep 9, 2014)

Hello!

I was just wondering if there's more info on the new NHS £200/anual surcharge. Will it affect those using the EEA route? 

I'm months away from sending my EEA FP documentation and was wondering if it will apply to me when I apply for the EEA2.

Cheers!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The wording isn't very clear about non-EEA family member of EEA citizen. It's ok for those applying for EEA family permit, as it's only valid 6 months, but we aren't sure about those going for residence card. There is request under FOI on this issue, and they have promised a reply. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/imposition_of_health_surcharge_f


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## Rocketlenz (Sep 9, 2014)

Joppa said:


> The wording isn't very clear about non-EEA family member of EEA citizen. It's ok for those applying for EEA family permit, as it's only valid 6 months, but we aren't sure about those going for residence card. There is request under FOI on this issue, and they have promised a reply. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/imposition_of_health_surcharge_f


Thanks Joppa! 

I found information regarding non-EEA family member of EEA citizens and the new NHS surcharge on the UKBA site

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/when-you-need-to-pay?hc_location=ufi


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks. So non-EEA family members applying for residence card on EEA(FM) don't have to pay.


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Thanks. So non-EEA family members applying for residence card on EEA(FM) don't have to pay.


So if im British and my wifes Indian where do I stand when it comes to her FLRM from UK?

Am I classed as EEA national or not?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

pt1988 said:


> So if im British and my wifes Indian where do I stand when it comes to her FLRM from UK? Am I classed as EEA national or not?


Not. Your wife has to pay the surcharge.


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

nyclon said:


> Not. Your wife has to pay the surcharge.


But is my partner not a family member of a EEA national/citizen because Im British and were married. 

Sorry I am not trying to be rude or amything just trying my best to understand the term "family member of eea citizen"


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Even though UK is part of EU and EEA, in this and many immigration instances, your partner can't benefit from it and just be regarded as non-EEA family member of British citizen and health surcharge is payable. The reason being that a British citizen cannot exercise treaty rights in UK (except when using Surinder Singh provision).


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Even though UK is part of EU and EEA, in this and many immigration instances, your partner can't benefit from it and just be regarded as non-EEA family member of British citizen and health surcharge is payable. The reason being that a British citizen cannot exercise treaty rights in UK (except when using Surinder Singh provision).


Abit unfair how partner of a british citizen has to pay to pay, when I've lived in this country all my life and been paying tax last 10 years and eea citizens can just get away without paying any visa fees or nhs charges. 

Totally wrong this rules set by the Tories, messed up the whole immigration system since they come into power, first £18,600 now nhs charge, cant wait to vote labour and show them the door.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Labour won't change those. And being pro-EU, you can expect continued mass migration from Europe.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

pt1988 said:


> Abit unfair how partner of a british citizen has to pay to pay, when I've lived in this country all my life and been paying tax last 10 years and eea citizens can just get away without paying any visa fees or nhs charges.
> 
> Totally wrong this rules set by the Tories, messed up the whole immigration system since they come into power, first £18,600 now nhs charge, cant wait to vote labour and show them the door.


If I travelled anywhere else in the world to live, I would not be entitled to or expect free health care, so why should any body else think it is an entitlement.
What I can't quite understand is that there are so many male and female Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshs etc already in the UK, why don't they fall in love with a male or female spouse from the stock already in the UK, who they have grown up with and know? Instead of having to import a bride from their route countries!, and then complain about not getting all the freebies the UK used to offer.
Quite honestly, the Tories have redeemed them selves greatly for bringing in these latest rules, if they had brought them in much earlier they would have made a greater impact. 
Labour are just 'hot air' blowers, I doubt very much whether they would even try to change the latest NHS rules, if they had the guts to have done it themselves they would have.


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

The NHS Surcharge would be fairer if applied to all visitors/immigrants. Many Countries require Health Insurance and if Documents are not presented at entry travellers are required to purchase before going through Passport Control. The UK have had an Open Door Policy for many years and the pressure on services has worsened since enlargement of the EU. All Political!!


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

skyf said:


> The NHS Surcharge would be fairer if applied to all visitors/immigrants. Many Countries require Health Insurance and if Documents are not presented at entry travellers are required to purchase before going through Passport Control. The UK have had an Open Door Policy for many years and the pressure on services has worsened since enlargement of the EU. All Political!!


All visitors, (except EEU citizens who hold an EHIC card issued by their own EEU country).NON -EEU will be expected to either have private health insurance, which covers in UK, or pay 150% of the of the health bill if they use the NHS during their stay/ visit if they have an accident or sudden illness. It is to stop health tourism.
I am not sure whether when on a visitors visa, that the health cover/ or insurance status will be checked, it should be, no cover-no entry, like many other countries, I hope it is, otherwise a few visitors will get a nasty shock, should they be presented with a huge hospital bill.
I agree with you that the NHS has been stretched to the limits, with the previous open door policy, let's hope it gets better soon heh!


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Labour won't change those. And being pro-EU, you can expect continued mass migration from Europe.


Labour wont change it now thats true but if they had been in power they wouldnt have introduced it in the first place...

Tories are for the rich and labour are for the all the hard labourers.


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

fergie said:


> If I travelled anywhere else in the world to live, I would not be entitled to or expect free health care, so why should any body else think it is an entitlement.
> What I can't quite understand is that there are so many male and female Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshs etc already in the UK, why don't they fall in love with a male or female spouse from the stock already in the UK, who they have grown up with and know? Instead of having to import a bride from their route countries!, and then complain about not getting all the freebies the UK used to offer.
> Quite honestly, the Tories have redeemed them selves greatly for bringing in these latest rules, if they had brought them in much earlier they would have made a greater impact.
> Labour are just 'hot air' blowers, I doubt very much whether they would even try to change the latest NHS rules, if they had the guts to have done it themselves they would have.


Well my point is why not have the same rule for an eea citizen or a british national why differentiate... You dont have to go all agressive on all import export business mate, you can fall in love with anyone dont matter where they come from.. i have paid more in tax then nhs has offered me for using their service, coming from the public sector we pay one of the highest level of taxes in the country.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pt1988 said:


> Well my point is why not have the same rule for an eea citizen or a british national why differentiate... You dont have to go all agressive on all import export business mate, you can fall in love with anyone dont matter where they come from.. i have paid more in tax then nhs has offered me for using their service, coming from the public sector we pay one of the highest level of taxes in the country.


British workers pay into the NHS by way of a national insurance - its an insurance in case you need it. Just as with any other type of insurance, you dont always use the amount that you have paid in, but other people may use much more than they have paid in - either way, as with other insurances. The rules within the EU are as they are because the EU operates a reciprocal type arrangement for visitors by way of the EHIC card. 

Unfortunately the NHS is in such a financial state right now that I doubt any government who may be elected will make any changes that would be favourable to your situation 

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As for Asians wanting to bring marriage partners from their home countries, remember they have a tradition of arranged marriages, and parents and other relatives look to the people in their home villages and towns to marry into their families to strengthen the family tie. While more Westernised younger people prefer to choose their own partners, many still want to honour the age-long tradition. As they themselves claim, for them the love comes after marriage not before and vast majority of arranged marriages seem as happy and durable as love marriages.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

No problem with the surcharge here, just wondering about non eea spouse visa holders who work and already contribute through their pay? Will they have to pay the surcharge as well (when applying for FLR) ? 
Honestly there is a huge strain on the NHS, we should all contribute, through insurance or surcharge, either way, it's the same everywhere...EU citizens contribute through their earnings, however their spouses or family members should as well. It's not even about what's fair or not, we have to keep the NHS going...


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

fergie said:


> If I travelled anywhere else in the world to live, I would not be entitled to or expect free health care, so why should any body else think it is an entitlement.
> What I can't quite understand is that there are so many male and female Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshs etc already in the UK, why don't they fall in love with a male or female spouse from the stock already in the UK, who they have grown up with and know? Instead of having to import a bride from their route countries!, and then complain about not getting all the freebies the UK used to offer.
> Quite honestly, the Tories have redeemed them selves greatly for bringing in these latest rules, if they had brought them in much earlier they would have made a greater impact.
> Labour are just 'hot air' blowers, I doubt very much whether they would even try to change the latest NHS rules, if they had the guts to have done it themselves they would have.


"Stock"? "import"? Is that how you refer to Indians and bengalis? I would rather vote for labour than the Tories or not vote.

When you said you dont expect much freebies in another country as to what UK offers,tell me which other country takes away £700 in tax and ni every month? Tax and ni alone pays for NHS for myself and wife n kid. Its a joke!!!!! Thats 30% of my salary gone X that for 12 months, i last visited my GP 2 years ago and I dont get no free medicines I have to pay!!!


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

skyf said:


> The NHS Surcharge would be fairer if applied to all visitors/immigrants. Many Countries require Health Insurance and if Documents are not presented at entry travellers are required to purchase before going through Passport Control. The UK have had an Open Door Policy for many years and the pressure on services has worsened since enlargement of the EU. All Political!!


Thank you for making my point clear


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

MacUK said:


> No problem with the surcharge here, just wondering about non eea spouse visa holders who work and already contribute through their pay? Will they have to pay the surcharge as well (when applying for FLR) ?
> Honestly there is a huge strain on the NHS, we should all contribute, through insurance or surcharge, either way, it's the same everywhere...EU citizens contribute through their earnings, however their spouses or family members should as well. It's not even about what's fair or not, we have to keep the NHS going...


Yes spouses who are non EEA visa holders of UK citizens will pay the surcharge when applying for FLR (M) even if they are working.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Anomaly regarding those who are in UK under EU regulations is one aspect of UK's EU membership that is under attack from UKIP and other anti-EU factions. Until UK leaves EU, the inequality will remain. But nobody mentions a million British citizens living, working and retiring in other EEA countries, esp Spain.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

If I lived in FYR MK right now, I would have to contribute to the health insurance system through my earnings. I don't see anything out of the ordinary with this surcharge. Everyone pays their way...What I couldn't believe, and I remember asking Joppa over and over again, that I wouldn't need health insurance when entering the UK. What could be clarified is the fraction of non eea spouse visa holders who are working and already paying NI. Regarding UKIP, just no. No no no no. I really do not care about them. 
Every political party's game before election is tackling immigration matters. How about those bankers then? Just saying.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

What could be done and a crucial improvement while they're at it, is affordable childcare! I'm an avid supporter of that. Give us a break!


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

pt1988 said:


> "Stock"? "import"? Is that how you refer to Indians and bengalis? I would rather vote for labour than the Tories or not vote.
> 
> When you said you dont expect much freebies in another country as to what UK offers,tell me which other country takes away £700 in tax and ni every month? Tax and ni alone pays for NHS for myself and wife n kid. Its a joke!!!!! Thats 30% of my salary gone X that for 12 months, i last visited my GP 2 years ago and I dont get no free medicines I have to pay!!!


This article from BBc about tax in various other countries may help.
Which country has the highest tax rate? - BBC News
UK is not the highest tax paying country in the world, and no matter which government is in power taxes will go up and down, with each budget, to suit the majority of voters in the Uk, of whichever party is in power. It is absolutely your choice to vote for which ever party you like, but have a look into the history of the parties, their policies, and the possible impact of any parties action within the country where you live.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

pt1988 said:


> "Stock"? "import"? Is that how you refer to Indians and bengalis? I would rather vote for labour than the Tories or not vote.
> 
> When you said you dont expect much freebies in another country as to what UK offers,tell me which other country takes away £700 in tax and ni every month? Tax and ni alone pays for NHS for myself and wife n kid. Its a joke!!!!! Thats 30% of my salary gone X that for 12 months, i last visited my GP 2 years ago and I dont get no free medicines I have to pay!!!


Try Germany.

Higher taxes, higher social security contributions and you'd be paying more than £200 per MONTH for mandatory health insurance.


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## Zara2013 (Jul 18, 2013)

When the government decided to put inforce NHS charge; they should have included every country on earth to pay this NHS charge no exemptions. Why is eu citizens getting away not paying this? NHS is valuable resource to have and I don't mind paying it through my taxes. Everyone should be treated equally. Just my opinion.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Zara2013 said:


> When the government decided to put inforce NHS charge; they should have included every country on earth to pay this NHS charge no exemptions. Why is eu citizens getting away not paying this? NHS is valuable resource to have and I don't mind paying it through my taxes. Everyone should be treated equally. Just my opinion.



As far as I know, there is a reciprocal agreement. The way it works is that citizens from the EU are treated the same as the citizens from their own country. Britain is part of the EU and therefore its all as one. The wrong thing IMO is that the health service in Britaiin is residency based, as opposed to contribution based

British citizens who immigrate outside of the EU have to pay for private health cover

Jo xxx


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

jojo said:


> As far as I know, there is a reciprocal agreement. The way it works is that citizens from the EU are treated the same as the citizens from their own country. Britain is part of the EU and therefore its all as one. The wrong thing IMO is that the health service in Britaiin is residency based, as opposed to contribution based
> 
> British citizens who immigrate outside of the EU have to pay for private health cover
> 
> Jo xxx


There is no reciprocal agreement here in the Canary Islands Jojo, other than those on state pension...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hertsfem said:


> There is no reciprocal agreement here in the Canary Islands Jojo, other than those on state pension...


Reciprocal arrangement is only for temporary residents, visitors etc by showing European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). Plus pensioners get their own country to reimburse the host country by getting and showing certificate S1. Everyone else has to pay by contributing to state health insurance scheme, which in Spain is around 60 euro a month. UK by not having contributory health care can't charge EEA citizens when Britons don't pay except through general taxation. Changing NHS to health insurance scheme is political suicide which no politician will contemplate.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Joppa said:


> Reciprocal arrangement is only for temporary residents, visitors etc by showing European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). Plus pensioners get their own country to reimburse the host country by getting and showing certificate S1. Everyone else has to pay by contributing to state health insurance scheme, which in Spain is around 60 euro a month. UK by not having contributory health care can't charge EEA citizens when Britons don't pay except through general taxation. Changing NHS to health insurance scheme is political suicide which no politician will contemplate.


Thats what I meant to say Joppa - thanks 

Jo xxx


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

EHIC is only for emergencies. But Jojo made it sound like I could go to the doctor here as I would have been able to in the UK and that is not the case. 

Something has to give at some stage regarding EU citizens getting free healthcare in UK (what about their non EU spouse and children?)


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

Here is some interesting reading, for those who would like to read it, history of the founding of the NHS in 1945, also a link within the history to a white paper (1944)originally written by the Conservative party,very similar to he model used to form the NHS prior to Labours take over in government in 1945. So it does show that great minds of the time did think alike!
The NHS when it was formed was for a lesser number of inhabitants and a less mobile population who didn't travel much either, so dealing with illness and disease spread was much easier in a small island country, which was not even part of the EEU in those days.
Times, since 1945 and the population of the UK have changed, out of all proportion, to fit the original model of NHS, and it is struggling because of this. It was never intended to be an NHS for the world to use, only a very efficient model, in times gone by to fit the population expectancies of the indigenous UK people, and was able to treat the very small amount of non UK People too, but larger amounts of travellers, and people who stay permanently in the UK have made it very difficult for such a service to function in the original way it was intended. I don't think any political party will change the NHS completely, just 'tweek' it to suit modern trends.
It is a great service, trying to keep up with population change in today's UK is difficult using the original old NHS model.
Bevan (1945)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

UK, and to a certain degree Ireland, is alone in EU to provide a universal health care system funded mainly by taxation. Every other state has subsidised contributory health insurance scheme, often working in tandem with the private sector, i.e. you pay basic state health insurance contribution, plus optionally you can belong to supplementary or private schemes which offer something extra, such as private hospital room, choice of doctors, elective procedures and reimbursement of charges normally levied.


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## pt1988 (Oct 28, 2012)

Zara2013 said:


> When the government decided to put inforce NHS charge; they should have included every country on earth to pay this NHS charge no exemptions. Why is eu citizens getting away not paying this? NHS is valuable resource to have and I don't mind paying it through my taxes. Everyone should be treated equally. Just my opinion.


Thank you


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