# Delinquent FBARs



## emmarshy

Hi everyone, 

I'd really appreciate a little bit of advice on filing back FBAR's.

I'm a dual UK-US citizen, and have moved to the USA for the first time in July 2013. Like many dual citizens I became suddenly aware that I should have been filing USA tax returns. I have filed the 2012 tax return and FBAR on time last year, the FBAR was filed from abroad before we moved, and the tax return filed from the USA using the extension after we moved.

Anyway long story short, I'm working on filing my back FBAR's first however I have a few questions that I was hoping people could help me with:

- Should I be using the 'online' submission for this?
- For the 'address' should I use a UK address to make the delinquent returns more palatable, and make me eligible for the streamlined process? I can get mail at both UK and USA address, but am living at USA address now.
- I was married in 2013, should I file the returns prior to 2013 in my maiden name?
- If the answer above is 'yes', should I also be signing the form in my maiden name or married name? (Social security & passport show as married name changed in 2013)
- As I understand it, I need file the last 6 years of FBARs. Stupid question, but does this mean I need to file 2008 onwards... or file 6 years delinquent returns (e.g. 2006 onwards)?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## emmarshy

Hey, hoping to bump this thread. I can see I've had 100 views but no replies. I'd really appreciate any input even if its just an opinion on my situation.

Guess the key question I'm after getting answered is how many years I should go back for the FBAR's (and now also looking at the tax return portion). Would filing back to 2008 for the FBAR's and 2010 for tax returns would be enough to satisfy the IRS that I'm up to date or should I go back further?

<rant alert>
Its a real struggle to understand how my lifetime of not living in the USA prior to July 2013 is anything to do with America. I earned all my money in the UK adhering to UK tax laws, had only ever used (and contributed) to UK government services, do not use my US passport abroad except in the USA and have never voted in a US election!!!


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## Waldemar22

emmarshy said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'd really appreciate a little bit of advice on filing back FBAR's.
> 
> I'm a dual UK-US citizen, and have moved to the USA for the first time in July 2013. Like many dual citizens I became suddenly aware that I should have been filing USA tax returns. I have filed the 2012 tax return and FBAR on time last year, the FBAR was filed from abroad before we moved, and the tax return filed from the USA using the extension after we moved.
> 
> Anyway long story short, I'm working on filing my back FBAR's first however I have a few questions that I was hoping people could help me with:
> 
> - Should I be using the 'online' submission for this?
> - For the 'address' should I use a UK address to make the delinquent returns more palatable, and make me eligible for the streamlined process? I can get mail at both UK and USA address, but am living at USA address now.
> - I was married in 2013, should I file the returns prior to 2013 in my maiden name?
> - If the answer above is 'yes', should I also be signing the form in my maiden name or married name? (Social security & passport show as married name changed in 2013)
> - As I understand it, I need file the last 6 years of FBARs. Stupid question, but does this mean I need to file 2008 onwards... or file 6 years delinquent returns (e.g. 2006 onwards)?
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.


USE US ADDRESS IF LIVING IN US, don´t complicate a simple situation.

- file in present name. (ssi# is the same regardless)
-file from 2008 (6 latest fbars) 5 in your case if 2012 is already in file. 
-online. (paper if you can, I think osmeone said it was still possible, BUT,make sure you send a letter excusing yourself for being so unaware of FBARS, etc etc etc.)
Goodluck. And don´t let yourself be forced into some amnesty program if you were honestly unaware of your responsibility to file.


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## Bevdeforges

Honestly, depending on your financial situation (i.e. how much over the $10,000 threshold you are), you could probably get away with simply starting to file this year and be done with it.

But yes, you'll have to file online. There is, however, a place on the form (and it's one of those fill-in type pdf forms) for a brief explanation of why you're filing late if you are.

You might also want to have a read through the Bilateral agreement between the US and UK on the FATCA reporting requirement for the banks. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)

Gives you a somewhat better idea of where your risks may lie.
Cheers,
Bev


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## ForeignBody

Bevdeforges said:


> Honestly, depending on your financial situation (i.e. how much over the $10,000 threshold you are), you could probably get away with simply starting to file this year and be done with it.
> 
> But yes, you'll have to file online. There is, however, a place on the form (and it's one of those fill-in type pdf forms) for a brief explanation of why you're filing late if you are.
> 
> You might also want to have a read through the Bilateral agreement between the US and UK on the FATCA reporting requirement for the banks. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
> 
> Gives you a somewhat better idea of where your risks may lie.
> Cheers,
> Bev


On the front page of the PDF there is a section, "If this report is being filed late, select the reason for filing late". There is then a drop down menu where one of the choices is, "Did not know that I had to file".


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## emmarshy

Thank-you to everyone who has replied. I always feel a lot less panicked when I look at this forum. 

Waldemar22 - thanks for replying to all the questions and the advice about the amnesty program.

Bevdeforges - In answer to your question, I am probably just over the 50k mark if you include pension trust value as well. The article about FACTA was interesting. My birthplace is the US so I guess my banks will report on me. Do you have any idea whether the foreign banks will inform the clients that they have reported on? My banks have asked for no additional information from me.

ForeignBody - Thanks, yep thats all I can see. No free form text box as I was hoping 

Do any of you have advice about how far back I should do back tax returns? I was hoping to just go back to 2010. They are way harder than the FBAR's, I spent about 8 hours trying to figure out what forms I need to do!!.... How on earth do the illiterate or those without a good grasp of English do these correctly??!.... It seems that with a Masters degree in engineering I still can't figure them out!!


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## Bevdeforges

Whoa - if you're resident overseas, the FATCA stuff doesn't kick in unless your balances are over $200,000. If you're just over the $50,000 mark, you only have to report your FBAR accounts.

Download a copy of IRS Publication 54 from the IRS website and that will give you the overview of filing from overseas. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Waldemar22

emmarshy said:


> Thank-you to everyone who has replied. I always feel a lot less panicked when I look at this forum.
> 
> Waldemar22 - thanks for replying to all the questions and the advice about the amnesty program.
> 
> Bevdeforges - In answer to your question, I am probably just over the 50k mark if you include pension trust value as well. The article about FACTA was interesting. My birthplace is the US so I guess my banks will report on me. Do you have any idea whether the foreign banks will inform the clients that they have reported on? My banks have asked for no additional information from me.
> 
> ForeignBody - Thanks, yep thats all I can see. No free form text box as I was hoping
> 
> Do any of you have advice about how far back I should do back tax returns? I was hoping to just go back to 2010. They are way harder than the FBAR's, I spent about 8 hours trying to figure out what forms I need to do!!.... How on earth do the illiterate or those without a good grasp of English do these correctly??!.... It seems that with a Masters degree in engineering I still can't figure them out!!


present year tax (2013) forms PLUS prev. 3 tax years. So yes back to 2010,2011 and 2012.

I would consider biting the bullet and having someone professional take a look and actually file for you. If you have just over 50 k , You have at least a thousand pounds to get ALL your irs forms done properly. It is money well worth spent. Especially if you have form angst like I do. 
My situation is extremely easy and I have still someone who does it for me. Nice copies, even little yellow tabs as to where I have to sign. I sleep better and this person will help me out if the IRS comes back with any further queries. The people who file others taxes for a living know exactly who and how to word responses. What forms to send in etc. 
I


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## ForeignBody

emmarshy said:


> ForeignBody - Thanks, yep thats all I can see. No free form text box as I was hoping


If you check Other, there is a free form text box. If they are content to have their pre-set answer then stick with it. Sometimes we can say more than we need to!


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## Bevdeforges

emmarshy said:


> Bevdeforges - In answer to your question, I am probably just over the 50k mark if you include pension trust value as well. The article about FACTA was interesting. My birthplace is the US so I guess my banks will report on me. Do you have any idea whether the foreign banks will inform the clients that they have reported on? My banks have asked for no additional information from me.


In some/many cases, those bilateral agreements specifically state that the banks will NOT report existing accounts (as of a certain date - usually 31/12/2013, but later in some countries) if the account balance is not over $50,000. And, there are specific types of smaller financial institutions that are exempt from reporting at all.

It really does appear that they are looking for the big fish - certainly for the foreseeable future.
Cheers,
Bev


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