# help - weather & health - where to live



## jeffcaz02

Myself and my Husband are wanting out of the UK for many reasons and to move to the warmest place in the whole of Spain including the Balearics, I have some medical problems that would be eased in a warmer dryer winter climate. We did initially believe around costa tropical was this, however when watching new etc it looks like possibly Majorca has better warmer dryer weather in the winter can anyone assist me with this please we had hoped to move this spring summer.
thanks to those who can help 
carol and jeff


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## jojo

Spain isnt particularly warm in the winter/ especially at night! The Canary Islands are probably the best for all year round climate

Jo xxx


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## jeffcaz02

Thanks ,, I appreciate that but it is warmer than Britain, im been informed around Almeria is supposed to be the warmest driest place. I do appreciate your information

carol


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## jojo

effcaz02 said:


> Thanks ,, I appreciate that but it is warmer than Britain, im been informed around Almeria is supposed to be the warmest driest place. I do appreciate your information
> 
> carol



Hhhmmm... its not always warmer. The houses, in particular are built with the heat in mind. No damp courses, poor insulation, central heating is rare, no carpets and when the sun isnt out, its not much different from the UK. During the day when the sun is out, its nice. In fact its warmer outside than in! However, it snows, goes below zero and when it rains....it really rains. Perhaps not as often as the UK, but its not rare

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

effcaz02 said:


> Thanks ,, I appreciate that but it is warmer than Britain, im been informed around Almeria is supposed to be the warmest driest place. I do appreciate your information
> 
> carol


I had a skype call with a friend in Almería this morning. She was wearing several layers of sweaters & a fleecy dressing gown. She also had a log burner going ...... she was far from warm. I'm up on the east coast & wearing a thin sweater & leggings. I haven't turned any heating on today (actually I've only done so a couple of times this winter). Yet two or three weeks ago we had snow, rain, hail, high winds & high seas. The schools were closed because of the danger.

While Almería city might well be the 'warmest & driest' on _mainland_ Spain, that doesn't necessarily go for the region in general. 

Also, it's being compared with a country (Spain) which has huge swathes covered in snow with temperatures around & below zero. Spain gets more snow each winter than the UK.

Yes Almería might well be warmer than the UK. Maybe 15º as a high for an hour or two each day in the winter. But at night it's cold - & as Jo says, INDOORS is usually way colder than outdoors in the sun. Many many properties are also very damp.

For all year round warmth, the Canaries are the only option, as far as Spain is concerned.


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## Madliz

If I wanted hot and dry I would go to Almeria. Almeria city is the driest city in Europe and is unique for being the only city in continental Europe that has never recorded a temperature below zero. It is generally a couple of degrees warmer than Mallorca and has half the annual rainfall. It does get cold at night in the winter; for winter warmth you have to head to the Canaries.

Humidity is an important consideration, too. Hot and humid can be unbearable in the summer, cold and damp likewise in the winter. For less humidity, head inland. Think of the Spaghetti westerns, dry and dusty, that were filmed in the Tabernas Desert in Almeria.

You can see average temperatures for different Spanish regions here, with London temperatures for comparison:

Montly Climate Maps for Spain and Canary Islands


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## Megsmum

effcaz02 said:


> Thanks ,, I appreciate that but it is warmer than Britain, im been informed around Almeria is supposed to be the warmest driest place. I do appreciate your information
> 
> carol



Jo and the others are correct, it is not necessarily warmer here in the winter than the U.K. We've had consistently. -3/-5 at night. Cold northerly winds. Yes we have warmer days with sunshine but I would not rely on it. Normal winters, ice, cold rain sun wind just like the U.K.


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## Gran Erry-Bredd

No offence Madliz but that internet weather comparison link is completely inadequate. The Canary Islands and the south of Gran Canaria in particular eg Maspalomas or Playa de Ingles have less blistering heat in the summer and much warmer temperatures in winter months than anywhere in mainland Spain. Very little rain at any time of year. Effcaz02 needs to bear in mind how different locations can vary quite a lot eg Las Palmas in northern Gran Canaria has more cloud and rain than in the south but still has a very warm climate. I think it's minimum night temperatures that you need to keep an eye on when you are comparing locations. Maspalomas lowest forecast temperature about 15 Centigrade and Benidorm 2 Centigrade in next 7 days. It's all there on the internet so it must be true !


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## Pesky Wesky

The Baleric islands have horrific weather every winter for part of the winter including floods and gales. Note, not all winter, but part of it.


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## Lynn R

effcaz02 said:


> Thanks ,, I appreciate that but it is warmer than Britain
> carol


The temperatures are higher than Britain, yes. But what you have to remember is that once you live here, and become acclimatised to summer temperatures of 35C or above (in the South, at any rate) then you quickly start to feel cold once the temperatures fall. We now start putting sweaters on when it goes down to 20C as we feel chilly, whereas that would be decent summer weather in most parts of the UK. Anything lower than 15C and we are wearing winter coats and scarves!

As others have said, most days it feels nice and warm outside on winter afternoons, at least, but once the sun goes down the temperature drops really sharply and you really feel the difference even though minimum temperatures might not go below 7 or 8C (we don't get below zero temperatures where I live, although this winter we have had a few nights when it dropped to 3C). It is also true that during the day it is normally warmer outside than indoors.


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## Madliz

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> No offence Madliz but that internet weather comparison link is completely inadequate.


Inadequate in what way? It's a guide to average monthly temperatures in different regions of Spain. It is what it is, or are you suggesting that the temperatures given are incorrect?


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## Gran Erry-Bredd

Average temperatures for a whole region doesn't provide any information about highs and lows or amount of rainfall. I tried to give an example of how more detailed information should be looked up on the internet by Carol and Jeff if they are deciding on living in Spain according to the local climate. :yo:


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## Alcalaina

Wherever you go, even the Canaries, the weather will be bad some of the time. There is no earthly paradise where the climate is perfect year-round. If you choose somewhere like Almeria you may get milder, drier winters (though they've had heavy snow recently) but that comes with desert-like landscapes and sweltering summer heat.

The best approach is to realise that in Southern Spain, winters are much shorter and the daylight hours are longer than in Northern Europe. Be prepared for cold wet spells then you won't be taken by surprise. Sitting out in the sun on a December afternoon more than makes up for what might come in January.


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## jeffcaz02

I have just read all of my replies so far to my post, I am gutted really gutted, did not wish to go any further away due to the grandchildren and I need to be able to get back within a couple of hours. I now have to tell my hubby 
Thanks for every ones advice.


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## CHRISJK

jeffcaz02 said:


> I have just read all of my replies so far to my post, I am gutted really gutted, did not wish to go any further away due to the grandchildren and I need to be able to get back within a couple of hours. I now have to tell my hubby
> Thanks for every ones advice.


Please dont feel " Gutted " . I think you have to take some replies on here with a pinch of salt. Some people do seem to be "Understating" the weather on the coast in Southern Spain. I an not a Resident in Spain but we have been coming to Southern Spain During the winter for many years, and unless we have been extremely lucky the weather really wasn't as bad as quoted. The Warm and Sunny days far outweigh the cold and rainy days. Yes the evenings/nights can be "cold " but its all relative. It is considered Cold in these areas when the usual temperature is 4 to 8 degrees ( it is quite rare for it to get much colder ). We tend to get a little wrapped up and go for a walk, or a meal or even for a few drinks. When we don't go out we get "snuggled up " in front of the Log Burner. Regards..... Chris


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## jeffcaz02

Thank you very much Chris I will hopefully get to taste winter in Spain within next few weeks for a short time for ourselves, Fingers crossed


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## Khrissy

We moved over at the end of summer last year (Costa del Sol, inland) and so have had our first winter here. Floods in December and snow in January took us by surprise although everyone tells me these events were extreme. When the sun is out, you can sit out with a t-shirt on but when it's not, it feels cold and you need a jumper and sometimes a coat. The finca feels freezing at night but the thermometer tells me it's about 16C without the log burner on. We have used the log burner almost every night since the beginning of December and we have an electric blanket for the bed. We wear layers around the house and take them off to go outside! BUT, the winters are short compared to the UK, the days are longer and although you sometimes get a grey, overcast day, they don't go on and on like they do there. Spring is already on the way and the almond trees are blossoming. Come over and experience it for yourself to see if you can cope with it. We rented a flat last January to see what it was like rather than staying in a heated hotel! I had to go out and buy big cardigans, the cold at night was a shock, but we still came!


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## Lynn R

Khrissy said:


> We moved over at the end of summer last year (Costa del Sol, inland) and so have had our first winter here. Floods in December and snow in January took us by surprise although everyone tells me these events were extreme. When the sun is out, you can sit out with a t-shirt on but when it's not, it feels cold and you need a jumper and sometimes a coat. The finca feels freezing at night but the thermometer tells me it's about 16C without the log burner on. We have used the log burner almost every night since the beginning of December and we have an electric blanket for the bed. We wear layers around the house and take them off to go outside! BUT, the winters are short compared to the UK, the days are longer and although you sometimes get a grey, overcast day, they don't go on and on like they do there. Spring is already on the way and the almond trees are blossoming. Come over and experience it for yourself to see if you can cope with it. We rented a flat last January to see what it was like rather than staying in a heated hotel! I had to go out and buy big cardigans, the cold at night was a shock, but we still came!


That's a very accurate representation. As I said earlier, once you've been here throughout a hot summer, the winter temperatures may look high compared to the UK but you will still FEEL cold at 16C. The effect isn't the same on those who don't live here full time as they don't acclimatise to the hot summer weather in the same way.


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## Megsmum

CHRISJK said:


> Please dont feel " Gutted " . I think you have to take some replies on here with a pinch of salt. Some people do seem to be "Understating" the weather on the coast in Southern Spain. I an not a Resident in Spain but we have been coming to Southern Spain During the winter for many years, and unless we have been extremely lucky the weather really wasn't as bad as quoted. The Warm and Sunny days far outweigh the cold and rainy days. Yes the evenings/nights can be "cold " but its all relative. It is considered Cold in these areas when the usual temperature is 4 to 8 degrees ( it is quite rare for it to get much colder ). We tend to get a little wrapped up and go for a walk, or a meal or even for a few drinks. When we don't go out we get "snuggled up " in front of the Log Burner. Regards..... Chris



Actually, coming to Spain for periods during the winter is not the same as living here year in year out.

I've lived her just over three years now, not one summer or winter has been the same

Winter, year one it rained and rained and rained, year two we had freezing weather severe frosts and warm days,Down to under -3/-4. Equally We have had weeks of cloud cover, days of warm sunshine. The problem is that there is a misconception that's the winters are milder than parts of the U.K. they are not, they may be shorter - except last year winter seemed to drag on until late march - we used more wood last year than we have so far this year. 

I actually think saying to accept replies by those that live here with a pinch of salt is quite disingenuous, they have stated how they see the weather and how they live with it year in year out. The OP stated she wanted to live in the warmest place in winter in Spain. Folks have quite rightly pointed out, mainland Spain does not fulfill that requirement. 


On a personal level find the winters here ok but they are cold, frosts, rain, no I don't live in Andalucía. However, sometimes I think people focus too much on the winter weather, when for many, the upper 30s and higher temperatures we get in the summer, can cause as much discomfort as a few months of cold. When those heatwaves arrive they can be hard to deal with.

It also depends on where the OP lives now. If she's living in Scotland or further north, then her/perception of cold will be different to mine, from a milder southern climate.

Most replies on here are posted with thought and care, and are simply the views of those who live here, they should not be dismissed, the should simply be a springboard for further research.

Winter weather was originally important to us. Then we asked, then we researched, then we compromised. Never happier


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## Lynn R

I believe the OP has said she and her husband are considering inland Andalucia as place to live. Although they may want an inland location for other reasons, if warmer weather in winter is important to them I would caution against going too far inland as it is quite a bit colder inland (and especially at high altitudes) than it is nearer the coast. Taking on board Megsmum's comments about the hot weather in summer in the previous post, inland areas are also much hotter in summer than around the coast. Perhaps a more suitable location might be a smaller village within a few km of the coast, where it will be a couple of degrees colder in winter and hotter in summer than right on the coast, but not so built up or busy as being right on the coast.


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## Pesky Wesky

Megsmum said:


> Most replies on here are posted with thought and care, and are simply the views of those who live here, they should not be dismissed, the should simply be a springboard for further research.


Very much agree. This is a starting place, but not where the decisions should be made.


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## jeffcaz02

I presently live in the west midlands, rain rain rain .. all year... it makes all my joints painful and I want my life back... to get a job live as a 49yr old should, my last employer pushed and pushed to accept medical retirement, wrote me off the doctors I was sent to via work brainwashed me to believe I was finished working I had nothing to offer as I liv with very acute pain . but ive worsened due to the lack of confidence I now go through. I had never been unemployed until 2011.


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## jeffcaz02

Hi I am not an idiot ive been watching everything I can for a few years like a place in the winter sun and other documentaries and the current a new life in the sun last yr and this, I have also been on other websites looking for information but its still difficult to gauge so I thought ill join a forum and ask as the weather this winter has surprised us when we found out it had snowed we were shocked. Ive heard views on these shows and the overwhelming message is people with similar health issues they have experienced less pain altogether, finding the longer they are there the better they become.
We considered Australia the Californian coast and the canaries but we want need to also be close to our children and grandchildren ..
But it now seems like all the research was wrong and massively so.. I did not expect perfect warm weather and I knew winter nights could be very cold, I did not expect to be told it could be as bad as here in the UK.


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## Lynn R

jeffcaz02 said:


> Hi I am not an idiot ive been watching everything I can for a few years like a place in the winter sun and other documentaries and the current a new life in the sun last yr and this, I have also been on other websites looking for information but its still difficult to gauge so I thought ill join a forum and ask as the weather this winter has surprised us when we found out it had snowed we were shocked. Ive heard views on these shows and the overwhelming message is people with similar health issues they have experienced less pain altogether, finding the longer they are there the better they become.
> We considered Australia the Californian coast and the canaries but we want need to also be close to our children and grandchildren ..
> But it now seems like all the research was wrong and massively so.. I did not expect perfect warm weather and I knew winter nights could be very cold, I did not expect to be told it could be as bad as here in the UK.


I like watching programmes like A Place in the Sun, but I bet you notice that they never seem to film places on days when it's raining or very cloudy (as it is today where I live, just 5km from the Southern coast of Spain). It's feeling none too warm although the outside temperature is around 15C which is no doubt warmer than where you are. I certainly won't be eating lunch on the terrace which those programmes like to give the impression you can do all year round - in fact I don't eat lunch up there in the summer either, it's just too hot! We have rain forecast for the weekend, and it rained all last weekend too.

I'm sure nobody is trying to put you off coming to Spain, but we'd be doing you a disservice if we didn't tell you what it is really like.

And I do sympathise because I am from Manchester which is notorious for the amount of rain it gets. It isn't nearly as bad here as there, that's for sure.


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## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> Hi I am not an idiot ive been watching everything I can for a few years like a place in the winter sun and other documentaries and the current a new life in the sun last yr and this, I have also been on other websites looking for information but its still difficult to gauge so I thought ill join a forum and ask as the weather this winter has surprised us when we found out it had snowed we were shocked. Ive heard views on these shows and the overwhelming message is people with similar health issues they have experienced less pain altogether, finding the longer they are there the better they become.
> We considered Australia the Californian coast and the canaries but we want need to also be close to our children and grandchildren ..
> But it now seems like all the research was wrong and massively so.. I did not expect perfect warm weather and I knew winter nights could be very cold, I did not expect to be told it could be as bad as here in the UK.


Again, no one said you are an idiot

We originally thought we'd move to France, southern, but not to south, discovered it was very cold there. Gradually moved to southern Spain, ended up in Extremadura

Generally the sunshine benefits us all, of course it does, but it's not all year around, like the U.K. the weather can be up and down. The heat in the summer can be intolerable

Your research was not wrong, simply a learning curve. TV shows I'm afraid, show a very idyllic way of life. The main learning curve is when you move here
From your previous post have you considered how your residency here will work, showing proof of income and healthcare, sorry if you have gone over this before, I might have missed it


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## xabiaxica

Lynn R said:


> I believe the OP has said she and her husband are considering inland Andalucia as place to live. Although they may want an inland location for other reasons, if warmer weather in winter is important to them I would caution against going too far inland as it is quite a bit colder inland (and especially at high altitudes) than it is nearer the coast. Taking on board Megsmum's comments about the hot weather in summer in the previous post, inland areas are also much hotter in summer than around the coast. Perhaps a more suitable location might be a smaller village within a few km of the coast, where it will be a couple of degrees colder in winter and hotter in summer than right on the coast, but not so built up or busy as being right on the coast.


The OP also posted in France & Australia - I doubt anywhere in France would fit the bill weather-wise (happy to be corrected though) but Aus is a big country so maybe somewhere there would work, if they could get a visa.


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## xabiaxica

jeffcaz02 said:


> I presently live in the west midlands, rain rain rain .. all year... it makes all my joints painful and I want my life back... to get a job live as a 49yr old should, my last employer pushed and pushed to accept medical retirement, wrote me off the doctors I was sent to via work brainwashed me to believe I was finished working I had nothing to offer as I liv with very acute pain . but ive worsened due to the lack of confidence I now go through. I had never been unemployed until 2011.


Where I live on the east coast of Spain, it rarely gets too hot nor too cold for me - apart frm the snow this year!

However it's humid all summer & damp in the winter & my arthritis is often worse in summer than winter.

It's about more than temperature - humidity is very important too.


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## Pesky Wesky

I don't know about other parts of Spain, but here the weather has changed considerably since I've been here. Where I live (in the Comunidad de Madrid, but not the capital) there used to be a drastic temperature change after Easter when we would go from winter to summer in a week.
*B o o m!
*That doesn't happen now and hasn't for about 8, 9, 10 years. In recent years we've had some beautiful springs. In the winter there always used to be some days of heavy snowfall. We once had snow in the garden for 3 weeks. Don't seem to get that any more. This month we had rain every day and all day for days on end. I don't think that's ever happened the whole time I've been living here (22 years).
The weather has and is changing so it's quite difficult to give reliable info about it.
What is true and something that is much remarked on is the colder inside than out phenonomen, like today for example. It's a great sunny day here and quite warm in the sun (Not sunbathing weather, but you can sit in the sun with a light jacket), but right now I've got my dressing gown on over my clothes!


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## jojo

jeffcaz02 said:


> Hi I am not an idiot ive been watching everything I can for a few years like a place in the winter sun and other documentaries and the current a new life in the sun last yr and this, I have also been on other websites looking for information but its still difficult to gauge so I thought ill join a forum and ask as the weather this winter has surprised us when we found out it had snowed we were shocked. Ive heard views on these shows and the overwhelming message is people with similar health issues they have experienced less pain altogether, finding the longer they are there the better they become.
> We considered Australia the Californian coast and the canaries but we want need to also be close to our children and grandchildren ..
> But it now seems like all the research was wrong and massively so.. I did not expect perfect warm weather and I knew winter nights could be very cold, I did not expect to be told it could be as bad as here in the UK.


 I found/find Spain, especially the houses cold and damp in the winters, mainly due to the lack of insulation, damp proofing, carpets and central heating in the houses. Many a day, during the winter months, I'd go outside to warm up in the sun and at night, it feels cold. That said, I feel the cold in general. 

The Canary Islands are better and have an all year round warmth apparently.

That said, I knew and know people who moved to Spain for similar health reasons and found it to be beneficial.

A few fact finding visits during the winter are the way to find out for yourself how it may be, before making a permanent move? 

By the way, I'm not trying to put you off at all or suggest that you're an idiot (of course you're not) - but you need to have as many viewpoints and as much info as you can get to make an informed decision. Forums like this can help.

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Maybe the message is 
A/ Don't assume that Spain is warm
B/ Find a property that has an efficient form of heating
OR
C/ Buy a property that you can remodel to include some form of heating
D/ Don't throw away all your warm clothes. You might need them indoors if not out!


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## Lynn R

The other aspect, of course, is that I understand from other threads that the OP and her husband will be looking for work in Spain. As well as identifying an area which is the most suitable weather-wise and having in mind the things Pesky Wesky mentioned, they need to consider which areas give them the most opportunities to find jobs - and that's probably the most important one of all for them, although it's a whole new can of worms!


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## Horlics

Hi Op,

My UK home is in the West Midlands. As well as the rain, rain, rain you mentioned, during most winters we'll get periods of a week or two when the daytime temperature remains below 5 degrees and the only way to be comfortable is to leave the heating on all day.

Contrast that with Spain (the bits you would choose to live in, i.e. not hundreds of miles inland, not up a mountain) and it's a very very different experience. If, when you rent or buy, you get somewhere south facing, then on any day when the sky is clear, you can look forward to sitting in a chair in natural warmth for a good few hours. As the sunlight moves away you'll need to put some heating on. And then, winter will be over, having arrived several weeks after it did in the UK, and now leaving several weeks before.

Does it rain and snow? Yes. And people will be out with their cameras and it'll be all over Fakebook because it is a novelty.

There is a very big difference between winter in the West Midlands and winter in Almeria, so although the comments here about cold, damp, rain, snow, etc. are undoubtedly true, you really shouldn't go away with the idea that Spain's not a suitable place for you.

And about Oz, Sydney's mid-winter minimums are about 5-6-7 degrees. The same as Almeria's. If you want year-round summers you need two homes, one in the northern hemisphere and one in the southern.

If you want to be a 2 hour flight from the UK with long fantastic summers, short easily-bearable winters, including days that you'd settle for in June in the UK, then coastal Almeria is an excellent choice.

And when you get there, you'll meet a load of old folk many of whom will claim their health and lives are better/longer for having made the move.

Viva Espana.


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## Lynn R

Horlics said:


> then on any day when the sky is clear, you can look forward to sitting in a chair in natural warmth for a good few hours.


Not if they hope to be working, they can't!


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## Pesky Wesky

Horlics said:


> Does it rain and snow? Yes. And people will be out with their cameras and it'll be all over Fakebook because it is a novelty.
> 
> Viva Espana.


Not Facebook in my case, and not because it's a novelty; it's because a lot of people, A LOT still in this day and age don't BELIEVE that the weather in Spain can be bad. 
A couple of years ago my sister came to stay in March. The night after they arrived snow was forecast and sure enough when she woke up there was about 8cms of snow. We went to El Escorial to see the snowy countryside and monastery. At the end of the week they were sitting out at midday in the south facing front garden in the sun and in sandals. A couple of hours before they left for the airport I took a photo of them in t shirts at a reservoir with beautiful snowy mountains in the background.
Only in Spain? I don't think so, but something definitely to be taken into consideration when coming to live here, although I don't deny


> you'll meet a load of old folk many of whom will claim their health and lives are better/longer for having made the move.


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## Lynn R

I have, in all honesty, met people who moved to Spain and left all their winter clothes behind, didn't have duvets or blankets for their beds, etc because they thought they would never need them.


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## Megsmum

I think to be honest, having read that OP needs work etc, before even considering weather, residency and financial affairs should be the first question asked, can be 90 degrees all year round, not much good if you've got no money


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## Horlics

Pesky Wesky said:


> A LOT still in this day and age don't BELIEVE that the weather in Spain can be bad.


Well yes, this is true, many people do think it's year-round what they see in July.

I used to work in Madrid and have been there when it feels -10!


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## Dreamwork

We are just back from a week in Nerja, came back on 3rd Feb, this was to see what the weather was like in winter, and as we had not been to the Costa Del Sol before a good chance to drive along the coast and up the mountains to discover towns/villages. The first day it rained, the last day it rained. Apart from that every day the sun shone. We had lovely lunches sat outside in the sun and had to take off my cardigan as I was too hot. Did get a little sunburn too. We stayed in a hotel and a couple of times put the a/c on in the evening to heat the room for a short time while having a shower.

Thats just a little snapshot of one week during the winter, we loved it and will be repeating it again the same time next year but maybe a different location as we want to visit several areas before deciding where we might like to settle.


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## Dreamwork

Oh, and when researching, check the altitude of any village you may be interested in, my husband did a 3 point turn on a road which was little more than a ledge 800m up a mountain. Also several degrees colder than down on the coast.


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## Pesky Wesky

Dreamwork said:


> Oh, and when researching, check the altitude of any village you may be interested in, my husband did a 3 point turn on a road which was little more than a ledge 800m up a mountain. Also several degrees colder than down on the coast.


Yes, altitude affects temps a lot (we are at 890m) and humidity


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## Lynn R

Dreamwork said:


> We are just back from a week in Nerja, came back on 3rd Feb, this was to see what the weather was like in winter, and as we had not been to the Costa Del Sol before a good chance to drive along the coast and up the mountains to discover towns/villages. The first day it rained, the last day it rained. Apart from that every day the sun shone. We had lovely lunches sat outside in the sun and had to take off my cardigan as I was too hot. Did get a little sunburn too. We stayed in a hotel and a couple of times put the a/c on in the evening to heat the room for a short time while having a shower.
> 
> Thats just a little snapshot of one week during the winter, we loved it and will be repeating it again the same time next year but maybe a different location as we want to visit several areas before deciding where we might like to settle.


And what kind of clothes did you notice the local people were wearing?

I know I'm repeating myself here, but coming from a colder country for one week in the winter really doesn't give you an idea of how you would find the winters if you lived here all year round and were used to 35C temperatures in the summer. When we used to take holidays in Nerja in the winter, and when we used to come over to the house we eventually bought just for holidays before we moved over permanently, I used to sit in the sun in just a T shirt in January, too. I don't do it now.


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## xabiaxica

Lynn R said:


> And what kind of clothes did you notice the local people were wearing?
> 
> I know I'm repeating myself here, but coming from a colder country for one week in the winter really doesn't give you an idea of how you would find the winters if you lived here all year round and were used to 35C temperatures in the summer. When we used to take holidays in Nerja in the winter, and when we used to come over to the house we eventually bought just for holidays before we moved over permanently, I used to sit in the sun in just a T shirt in January, too. I don't do it now.


Exactly

We actually came for a month one October a few years before we moved here, & I remember sunbathing on the beach, my then 3 month old baby being in just a vest during the day & I was looking at photos a few days ago - me & my then 3 year old in shorts & a vest top.

I remember that the locals were all wearing coats or at least jackets.

Now that we live here, yes, sometimes in the winter I can sit in a t-shirt for a while in direct sunshine, but now that I'm acclimatised, anything below 20º feels chilly!

A student of mine turned up for a class in shorts this week..... but he's only been here a few weeks, so it still feels hot to him!


----------



## Dreamwork

I just told it as it was for me, just visiting. Yes I know you will become acclimatised, I didnt say at all thats how the weather is all winter, just a description of my week in Jan/Feb. Just another opinion, its up to the OP to decide for themselves if Spain will be warm enough for them or if they would prefer to go somewhere where it is warm year round, such as the Canaries.


----------



## Lynn R

xabiachica said:


> A student of mine turned up for a class in shorts this week..... but he's only been here a few weeks, so it still feels hot to him!


The first year we were here permanently, I remember turning up to my Spanish class one day in late October (the temperature was about 25 degrees) in a short sleeved T shirt, skirt and sandals. My teacher looked me up and down and said "!Lynn, qué barbaridad!".


----------



## amespana

We were in Tenerife 3 weeks ago.In the evenings it was winter coats jumpers and scarves.


----------



## kalohi

I live in an area where you generally see no foreigners at all. Well today in the local Carrefour, in front of me in the line to pay there were two young men dressed in shorts, sleeveless T-shirts and sandals. Everyone, and I mean everyone, looked the guys up and down as they walked past. The two men stood out like a sore thumb among everyone else wearing sweaters and jackets. And sure enough, when they started speaking they spoke German. It was about 15º outside, which apparently was summer-like weather for them but definitely not for us!


----------



## Alcalaina

kalohi said:


> I live in an area where you generally see no foreigners at all. Well today in the local Carrefour, in front of me in the line to pay there were two young men dressed in shorts, sleeveless T-shirts and sandals. Everyone, and I mean everyone, looked the guys up and down as they walked past. The two men stood out like a sore thumb among everyone else wearing sweaters and jackets. And sure enough, when they started speaking they spoke German. It was about 15º outside, which apparently was summer-like weather for them but definitely not for us!


I don't think I've ever seen a Spanish man wearing shorts in our village, even in midsummer! They are strictly for the beach or doing sports.


----------



## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a Spanish man wearing shorts in our village, even in midsummer! They are strictly for the beach or doing sports.


 Its rare, although I used to work with a few Spanish men in an office and they wore tailored shorts, with short sleeved shirts and ties to work in the summer.

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

In this area most people wear shorts in the summer and it's the furthest away from the beach that you can get in Spain, but not to work usually.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> In this area most people wear shorts in the summer and it's the furthest away from the beach that you can get in Spain, but not to work usually.


We couldn't get any closer to the beach  but I don't see many people in office-type jobs working in shorts - except property agents for some reason 

I don't see many wearing ties though, either, no matter what time of year!


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> We couldn't get any closer to the beach  but I don't see many people in office-type jobs working in shorts - except property agents for some reason
> 
> I don't see many wearing ties though, either, no matter what time of year!


 The two I'm thinking of were indeed property agents - they were Spanish tho


Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> The two I'm thinking of were indeed property agents - they were Spanish tho
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


It doesn't seem to be a nationality thing - Spanish, English, German, Dutch, whatever - property agents wear shorts in summer.

Only the men though - the women seem to wear strappy dresses or loose trousers


----------



## Megsmum

Probably because we live in an agricultural area, not much of the beach set here.

In the U.K. It's never cast a clout until May is out

Here it's never cast a clout until July is out LOL

Everyone is wrapped up like it's Siberia until it's in the 30s


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## Pesky Wesky

Megsmum said:


> In the U.K. It's never cast a clout until May is out


Well here it's even longer, until the 40th of May!
*Hasta el cuarenta de mayo no te quites el sayo*

Hasta el cuarenta de mayo no te quites el sayo

http://cvc.cervantes.es/lengua/refranero/Ficha.aspx?Par=58799&Lng=9


----------



## CHRISJK

jeffcaz02 said:


> Hi I am not an idiot ive been watching everything I can for a few years like a place in the winter sun and other documentaries and the current a new life in the sun last yr and this, I have also been on other websites looking for information but its still difficult to gauge so I thought ill join a forum and ask as the weather this winter has surprised us when we found out it had snowed we were shocked. Ive heard views on these shows and the overwhelming message is people with similar health issues they have experienced less pain altogether, finding the longer they are there the better they become.
> We considered Australia the Californian coast and the canaries but we want need to also be close to our children and grandchildren ..
> But it now seems like all the research was wrong and massively so.. I did not expect perfect warm weather and I knew winter nights could be very cold, I did not expect to be told it could be as bad as here in the UK.


As I said in an earlier reply, how can people on here say that the winters in Spain are as bad as in the UK ? Unless they live in Northern Spain and at a high Altitude ?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

CHRISJK said:


> As I said in an earlier reply, how can people on here say that the winters in Spain are as bad as in the UK ? Unless they live in Northern Spain and at a high Altitude ?


I live at 890m in the centre of Spain. I scrape ice off the car windscreen every single winter. It snows every single winter to a varying degree. In the summer it's high 30º's to low 40º's
I have no reason to believe that people are not telling the truth about if they feel cold or not in Spain. Why would they?


----------



## Megsmum

CHRISJK said:


> As I said in an earlier reply, how can people on here say that the winters in Spain are as bad as in the UK ? Unless they live in Northern Spain and at a high Altitude ?



Because we live here. 
Because we are not lying 
Because it's our experience 


But mainly, because it's true, unless you want us to tell the OP and others what they want to hear, which is really not what most people come on here for, they come to hear from those of us that live here. 

What, may I ask, is our motivation for lying, I'm intrigued.


----------



## Horlics

CHRISJK said:


> As I said in an earlier reply, how can people on here say that the winters in Spain are as bad as in the UK ? Unless they live in Northern Spain and at a high Altitude ?


There's been a lot of discussion and I think the take-away is:

Spain isn't year-round summer weather (some believe it is)
It gets cold in the winter sometimes, especially at night
There's a big variation depending on location, as you'd expect in a country of its size
There is occasional extreme weather

I've been stuck in the UK since last November for various reasons and I've been hearing that Javea has had a pretty horrible winter, so I thought I would have a look at what horrible means. Here's a comparison for January:


Where I have been in the UK (and it's been a mild winter):

Max Ave Min

Max 11, 7, 2
Mean 8, 4, 0
Min 7, 1, -5

And over in Javea, Spain:

Max Ave Min

Max 22, 17, 8
Mean 16, 12, 4
Min 12, 7, 0

Well, well, despite snow-covered mountains and raging rivers, it seems that Javea was warmer. There's a surprise - it is coastal and at sea level.


----------



## Alcalaina

Horlics said:


> There's been a lot of discussion and I think the take-away is:
> 
> Spain isn't year-round summer weather (some believe it is)
> It gets cold in the winter sometimes, especially at night
> There's a big variation depending on location, as you'd expect in a country of its size
> There is occasional extreme weather
> 
> I've been stuck in the UK since last November for various reasons and I've been hearing that Javea has had a pretty horrible winter, so I thought I would have a look at what horrible means. Here's a comparison for January:
> 
> 
> Where I have been in the UK (and it's been a mild winter):
> 
> Max Ave Min
> 
> Max 11, 7, 2
> Mean 8, 4, 0
> Min 7, 1, -5
> 
> And over in Javea, Spain:
> 
> Max Ave Min
> 
> Max 22, 17, 8
> Mean 16, 12, 4
> Min 12,  7, 0
> 
> Well, well, despite snow-covered mountains and raging rivers, it seems that Javea was warmer. There's a surprise - it is coastal and at sea level.


I don't think anyone has claimed that southern Spain isn't warmer than the UK in winter. Of course it is, its a thousand miles nearer the equator.

But what people who don't live here seem to find hard to understand is that it FEELS COLD, because we are acclimatised to hot summer temperatures and because most houses are poorly insulated and don't have central heating. When I get up on a winter morning the house is around 15ºC, sometimes less, and there is no nice boiler with a timer to heat it up before I get out of bed! What have you got your thermostat set to, incidentally? 22ºC? 24ºC?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This morning was 1º and I scraped ice off the windscreen.
I'm not in southern Spain it's true.
I do think the weather is better here than in the UK. I happen to think the weather in Bilbao and certainly some parts of Asturias is also better than the UK, but that doesn't detract from the fact that, as Alcalaina quite rightly says, houses are often, very often, poorly insulated and heating systems, if you have one, that is are not necessarily as efficient as UK systems and that is because the weather is worse in the UK and the houses are geared towards that.
We re - insulted some walls, put in better quality glass in some patio doors, redistributed and put in an extra radiator, changed inside and exterior doors and put down cork flooring on the cold tiled floor. You often have to invest money in your Spanish house to make it liveable in the winter.


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> We re - insulted some walls


Insulting the walls doesn't help, already tried that!


----------



## Lynn R

And, yet AGAIN, although all the temperature charts tell you that Spain (mostly) is indubitably warmer than the UK in the winter, once you have lived here throughout a Spanish summer and become accustomed to temperatures way higher than anything experienced in the UK, when those temperature fall to less than half of what they are in the summer you will FEEL cold - as others have said, colder than you ever did when living in a centrally heated, carpeted house in the UK. It doesn't bother me particularly, we dress appropriately for the weather, and in fact I find centrally heated houses in the UK too stuffy when I go back there on visits in December.

My house indoors when there's no heating on is a little warmer than Alcalaina's, no doubt because we're nearer the coast. The lowest it's been when I've got up in the mornings (on a few days) has been 16C but 17/18C is more usual in winter. As she says, most people in the UK heat their houses to higher temperatures than that.


----------



## mrypg9

I flew home via Malaga last night after a couple of days in Surrey and was met by icy blasts and rain...much colder than the UK. 
It's so true that after spending a couple of years in Spain you get acclimatised in that you are more sensitive to cold temperatures that in the UK would be considered mild. As many people have pointed out people here on holiday prance about in summer clothes while the locals are wrapped up in coats, boots and scarves. When we first arrived here almost nine years ago I was going to get rid of all my Prague winter clothes - fleece-lined boots, Guernsey sweater, quilted jacket etc. and when I saw thick sweaters and jackets in shops I wondered who would buy such garments in Spain where as everybody knows, the sun always shines.
I soon found out.....
My advice to the OP for what it's worth is this:
take with a pinch of salt advice from Brits in bars and part-timers who think they know all about Spain from popping over now and then. You don't know a country until you've really lived in it. I'd been spending long periods in Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic since the late 1960s but always as a guest living temporarily and I thought I knew all I needed to know when I moved there permanently twelve years ago. Huge mistake. Living and visiting are two separate things in many ways.
The other thing is that I noticed that the OP has posted seeking information on other possible places to which to emigrate which to me denotes more of a desire to leave the UK than to live in Spain. I'm wondering what the OP knows about the less interesting but very important side to becoming resident in Spain, the formalities required before you are granted the right to reside. 
There are requirements you need to meet such as proving income paid regularly into a Spanish bank, around 600 euros a person plus savings, adequate provision for health insurance as unless you are in contracted work or in receipt of a state retirement pension you will not be eligible for 'free' health cover. There are no benefits such as Tax Credits or Housing Benefits and until you have paid in to the system you are entitled to no state benefit whatsoever.
Then there's the work situation. Of course it's not impossible to find work but it's very difficult if you speak no Spanish, have no skill in short supply and most importantly have no contacts. Every immigrant and Spanish person I know who has found work got it through a friend or friend of a friend. Unless you strike lucky, it can take time to build up these valuable contacts.
People often say that pointing all this out to prospective immigrants is 'negative'. No, it's a FACT. Facts can be right or wrong but never 'negative'. 'Negative' is how people see things, the interpretation they choose.
Yes, life in Spain is good, very good. This is my home. But like many regular posters on this Forum I'm not looking for work, I have no money worries, I'm in reasonably good health, my health care needs are covered as I'm in receipt of a UK SRP...
I'm not worried about any changes Brexit might bring either such as withdrawal of the 'free' health care I currently receive or fluctuations in the value f sterling.
But any prospective immigrant has to take into account all these factors before deciding on a move to Spain or any country for that matter.


----------



## mrypg9

CHRISJK said:


> As I said in an earlier reply, how can people on here say that the winters in Spain are as bad as in the UK ? Unless they live in Northern Spain and at a high Altitude ?


Because as you admit Spain is a huge country with variations in climate and temperature;
Because even in the UK there are marked variations in how winter is experienced;
Because when you experience Spain 365 days of the year you become acclimatised and notice lower temperatures more than if you spend short periods here;
Because it's foolish to focus on winter as there are seasons in Spain too....some people find summer heat intolerable. Last summer here on the coast in western Andalucia we had weeks of temperatures in the high 30s up to md 40sC. 
And maybe because we live here and you don't?


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## Lynn R

My winter wardrobe, for at least 3 months so far this year, has been a long-sleeved T shirt or light sweater with a fleece or thick cardigan/sweater over the top, trousers with opaque tights underneath, and socks - and that's indoors or out - with a proper coat, scarf and gloves, if going out at night. If I wore that lot inside any of my relative's houses in the UK when visiting them in winter, I'd be absolutely roasting.

And that's living in Southern Spain, pretty near the coast.


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Insulting the walls doesn't help, already tried that!


If you do it with the right gestures it should help you "entrar en calor" (warm up)
Save​


----------



## Horlics

Alcalaina said:


> I don't think anyone has claimed that southern Spain isn't warmer than the UK in winter. Of course it is, its a thousand miles nearer the equator.
> 
> But what people who don't live here seem to find hard to understand is that it FEELS COLD, because we are acclimatised to hot summer temperatures and because most houses are poorly insulated and don't have central heating. When I get up on a winter morning the house is around 15ºC, sometimes less, and there is no nice boiler with a timer to heat it up before I get out of bed! What have you got your thermostat set to, incidentally? 22ºC? 24ºC?


I don't find it hard to understand at all. Firstly, although not full-time resident I have spent several winters in Spain so I know exactly what you're talking about. Secondly, I lived in the Middle East for several years and after experiencing 50 degrees in the summer and temperatures generally in the 30s, when a January evening dropped to 19 we were reaching for our coats!

My thermostat is usually set to 21. As the one in Spain will be when I have central heating installed when I make the permanent move.


----------



## CHRISJK

Megsmum said:


> Because we live here.
> Because we are not lying
> Because it's our experience
> 
> 
> But mainly, because it's true, unless you want us to tell the OP and others what they want to hear, which is really not what most people come on here for, they come to hear from those of us that live here.
> 
> What, may I ask, is our motivation for lying, I'm intrigued.


I am really not saying people are lying per se. I think that people have become acclimatised to the Spanish weather in the Summer and so they "Think" that its cold when its 20 Degrees, and they say its as cold etc as the UK in the Winter, when it really isn't..... Chris


----------



## Lynn R

CHRISJK said:


> I am really not saying people are lying per se. I think that people have become acclimatised to the Spanish weather in the Summer and so they "Think" that its cold when its 20 Degrees, and they say its as cold etc as the UK in the Winter, when it really isn't..... Chris


You're getting there. We've all acknowledged that temperature-wise, Southern Spain at least is not as cold as the UK in the winter. But we don't just "think" we are cold here in the winter because we are acclimatised to Spanish summer weather, we do actually FEEL cold!

Even Horlics has acknowledged that once he moves here full time, he will need to install central heating in his home to heat it to the same temperature as his home in the UK. If it wasn't cold he wouldn't need to do that, would he?


----------



## Megsmum

CHRISJK said:


> I am really not saying people are lying per se. I think that people have become acclimatised to the Spanish weather in the Summer and so they "Think" that its cold when its 20 Degrees, and they say its as cold etc as the UK in the Winter, when it really isn't..... Chris


Exactly, so when someone moves here permanently they too will acclimatize and then find it cold in the winter, so yes it is as cold as the U.K., because what the weather charts tell you is a total irrelevance to how people actually feel. 

Spanish houses are cold, they are not insulated, very few even have damp courses. Living here all year round, winters are very cold they can be very damp and can be expensive and no winter fuel allowance here.

And it's not just the British, the average Spaniard would argue that point with you as well


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Megsmum said:


> And it's not just the British, the average Spaniard would argue that point with you as well


Came up in conversation with a 30+ Spaniard from the region of Murcia a couple of days ago. He said that the houses weren't built for the winter and were cold


----------



## Horlics

Thing is.. we're lucky in Javea because they laid natural gas pipes a couple of years ago. Central heating for a reasonable cost is now an option. Anybody hearing how cold, damp, etc. Spanish homes are who might think.. well just install central heating.. may not be aware of how really really expensive it is when the supply is bottled gas. I think the majority of permanent residents in the development I live on took the option of Central Heating using the new gas supply as soon as it was offered, so no disagreement from them either that it is a necessity.

About the feeling vs. charts. Within the last two weeks we've had a couple of days here in the UK which were 7 degrees. One felt about 1 and the other about 12. Even the charts have their "feels like" measure these days, although not the ones I posted.


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## cermignano

Years ago in Scotland we were freezing a lot of the year. Still are. Difference is that at home non-insulated houses coupled with no central heating meant we could feel it right through to our bones at home. Also ice inside the single glazed windows. Then we got heating. Lots of families are still freezing as they cannot afford the heating. I would rather do without everything else in winter because I cannot suffer the freezing.
My sister's Andalucian home last winter took me back to the fifties - frozen through to the bone. It was more pleasant during the day. Thank goodness she had electric blankets. Brrr


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## Pesky Wesky

cermignano said:


> Also ice inside the single glazed windows.


That took me back to my childhood in a big house in the Cotswolds


----------



## mrypg9

CHRISJK said:


> I am really not saying people are lying per se. I think that people have become acclimatised to the Spanish weather in the Summer and so they "Think" that its cold when its 20 Degrees, and they say its as cold etc as the UK in the Winter, when it really isn't..... Chris


No, we don't 'think' it's cold, we FEEL the cold.
Experiencing sensations of heat or cold is subjective and highly individual. You say, correctly, that we residents have become acclimatised which proves our point, namely that someone like yourself who holidays in Spain now and then will perceive a milder climate - at times and depending on location - than in the UK =also at times and depending on location.
So the feel for climate as experienced by real people, residents in a country, will be quite other than that suggested by temperature statistics or short term visitors.
So, to repeat what most full-timers have said, many people experience quite severe cold here in Spain during the winter and that will be the experience of anyone who comes to live, not holiday, here. It's important to let people who think that Spain will automatically provide warmth and benefit poor health know that.
It's also worth bearing in mind that extreme summer heat can be equally harmful to people with poor health. There's also the seemingly more frequent instances of 'freak' weather conditions leading to severe flooding, gales, heavy snow in some regions.
I live on the coast where it rarely if ever goes below 8C or thereabouts but a twenty minute drive inland and there's snow. A friend who lives in the campo less than 5km from me as the crow flies has been scraping ice off her windscreen lately.
Weather/climate is like many things about Spain, you don't get to know about them until you live here for some time.


----------



## Isobella

Agree with everyone, winter in Spain would be great with a good CH system.

Couple of weeks ago we flew in from Nairobi, 5am on a frosty morning. Don't think I have ever been so cold. This weekend has been quite mild for UK. In Chichester Sat lots of people were sitting outside restaurants eating lunch, it was 13C:lol: Sunday we pottered in the garden, sat out having a coffee it felt really warm.

I suppose that's why you see many tourists walking around Fuengirola in shorts when it's 15C and Norwegians taking a dip in the sea in January

When Spanish friends visited in UK they were too warm in the house.


----------



## Lynn R

Well, today is so much warmer (22C in Torre del Mar at 1.00pm) and feels like Spring is on the way! It's the first time for weeks I've felt like taking my fleece off and sitting in the sun with a coffee. Hope it lasts.


----------



## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Couple of weeks ago we flew in from Nairobi, 5am on a frosty morning. Don't think I have ever been so cold.


We once came back from a holiday in Bali in December, and we'd forgotten to leave the central heating on for a couple of hours a day. We experiened a drop in temperature of 35C within 24 hours and it was absolutely freezing, it took me about a fortnight to feel warm again. A lesson learned!


----------



## CHRISJK

mrypg9 said:


> No, we don't 'think' it's cold, we FEEL the cold.
> Experiencing sensations of heat or cold is subjective and highly individual. You say, correctly, that we residents have become acclimatised which proves our point, namely that someone like yourself who holidays in Spain now and then will perceive a milder climate - at times and depending on location - than in the UK =also at times and depending on location.
> So the feel for climate as experienced by real people, residents in a country, will be quite other than that suggested by temperature statistics or short term visitors.
> So, to repeat what most full-timers have said, many people experience quite severe cold here in Spain during the winter and that will be the experience of anyone who comes to live, not holiday, here. It's important to let people who think that Spain will automatically provide warmth and benefit poor health know that.
> It's also worth bearing in mind that extreme summer heat can be equally harmful to people with poor health. There's also the seemingly more frequent instances of 'freak' weather conditions leading to severe flooding, gales, heavy snow in some regions.
> I live on the coast where it rarely if ever goes below 8C or thereabouts but a twenty minute drive inland and there's snow. A friend who lives in the campo less than 5km from me as the crow flies has been scraping ice off her windscreen lately.
> Weather/climate is like many things about Spain, you don't get to know about them until you live here for some time.


Surely you have to think its cold to feel the cold or vice versa ? To repeat again.. It Definitely IS colder in the UK than Spain.. All you Expats are saying is that it "feels" colder, (yes I do understand all that ) but that doesn't alter the Official weather Temperatures, that state that in coastal southern Spain the winter temperatures are higher.....


----------



## Isobella

CHRISJK said:


> Surely you have to think its cold to feel the cold or vice versa ? To repeat again.. It Definitely IS colder in the UK than Spain.. All you Expats are saying is that it "feels" colder, (yes I do understand all that ) but that doesn't alter the Official weather Temperatures, that state that in coastal southern Spain the winter temperatures are higher.....


Very true, but when you see the temperature showing 20C and you feel chilly that's what matters.

I think it was very petty to withdraw the WFA.


----------



## CHRISJK

isobella said:


> very true, but when you see the temperature showing 20c and you feel chilly that's what matters.
> 
> I think it was very petty to withdraw the wfa.


wfa ?


----------



## Lynn R

CHRISJK said:


> wfa ?


Winter Fuel Allowance


----------



## jojo

CHRISJK said:


> wfa ?


Winter Fuel Allowance

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

CHRISJK said:


> wfa ?


Winter fuel allowance


----------



## Megsmum

It's irrelevant what the he thermometer says. Once you've lived here a while you FEEL cold.

I've just got back from the U.K.! Warmest day of the year they say yesterday, I was bloody frozen, back home in Spain 18 today, fire on feel cold. The 18 is irrelevant I feel cold

The polls close down here last week august. Temps usually 27/30+. Why the locals say it's to cold to swim, those temps in the U.K. would see beaches heaving and talks of an Indian summer


----------



## Tigerlillie

CHRISJK said:


> Surely you have to think its cold to feel the cold or vice versa ? To repeat again.. It Definitely IS colder in the UK than Spain.. All you Expats are saying is that it "feels" colder, (yes I do understand all that ) but that doesn't alter the Official weather Temperatures, that state that in coastal southern Spain the winter temperatures are higher.....


Why can't you understand that it is all relative. 

Yes the temps in Spain are higher than the UK in winter but if you are going to live there on a permanent basis you will become acclimatised and then, when the temps drop from the 30's in the height of summer to the teens in winter, you will be cold.

I live in Brittany so I don't get heat like you guys but it regularly hits middle to high 20's and maybe a couple of 30's or so where I am in summer, so when it starts to get down to around 17/18 in the autumn I start feeling cold and out come my jumpers but the people who don't live here full time are still wandering around in t shirts.
I shan't talk about winter 

I have friends who live in Mexico (Los Cabos), they say it has been particularly cold this year, the lowest temp they have had this month was 21 degrees and my friends actual words were 'I don't like this weather we're having at the mo, it's effing freezing!'.
But you have to remember, there, summer temps are usually high 30's low 40's and usually this time of year it's around 26/27 degrees.

Temperature and how it is felt is relative to where you live not where you take your holidays.


----------



## jojo

CHRISJK said:


> Surely you have to think its cold to feel the cold or vice versa ? To repeat again.. It Definitely IS colder in the UK than Spain.. All you Expats are saying is that it "feels" colder, (yes I do understand all that ) but that doesn't alter the Official weather Temperatures, that state that in coastal southern Spain the winter temperatures are higher.....


 I'm not acclimatised to Spain, as I live most of the time in the UK. I'd say its warm in the sun, but in the shade on a sunny day its "jumper" cold. In the houses and at night it is very cold - hat, coat and scarf cold. Houses arent easy to warm, since few have cnetral heating, insulation or carpets. And they feel damp/cold.

But in the end, we're all different. But never be lead to believe that Spain doesnt get cold. And dont worry about official statistics - its the chill factor that matters.

Jo xxx


----------



## Lynn R

Megsmum said:


> It's irrelevant what the he thermometer says. Once you've lived here a while you FEEL cold.
> 
> I've just got back from the U.K.! Warmest day of the year they say yesterday, I was bloody frozen, back home in Spain 18 today, fire on feel cold. The 18 is irrelevant I feel cold
> 
> The polls close down here last week august. Temps usually 27/30+. Why the locals say it's to cold to swim, those temps in the U.K. would see beaches heaving and talks of an Indian summer


Even here in Andalucia, the public outdoor pools in the villages are only open from June to September. Our local Water Park opens mid June to mid September although it can be very hot in May and early June. I've met lots of disappointed families over for the school holidays at the end of May whose children had been hoping to go to the Water Park, but no joy - because it's not considered summer! Some friends of ours once rented an apartment with their children in Torre del Mar at that time and their children were devastated that they couldn't swim in the communal pool because it was closed, although as we say where I come from, it was cracking the flags.

We have an outdoor public pool in our town which is even worse, only opens in July and August


----------



## CHRISJK

xabiachica said:


> Winter fuel allowance


Hahahaha... oops, of course. Thanks all three of you for the replies...


----------



## CHRISJK

Tigerlillie said:


> Why can't you understand that it is all relative.
> 
> Yes the temps in Spain are higher than the UK in winter but if you are going to live there on a permanent basis you will become acclimatised and then, when the temps drop from the 30's in the height of summer to the teens in winter, you will be cold.
> 
> I live in Brittany so I don't get heat like you guys but it regularly hits middle to high 20's and maybe a couple of 30's or so where I am in summer, so when it starts to get down to around 17/18 in the autumn I start feeling cold and out come my jumpers but the people who don't live here full time are still wandering around in t shirts.
> I shan't talk about winter
> 
> I have friends who live in Mexico (Los Cabos), they say it has been particularly cold this year, the lowest temp they have had this month was 21 degrees and my friends actual words were 'I don't like this weather we're having at the mo, it's effing freezing!'.
> But you have to remember, there, summer temps are usually high 30's low 40's and usually this time of year it's around 26/27 degrees.
> 
> Temperature and how it is felt is relative to where you live not where you take your holidays.


Why cant you understand... I know its all relative, but posters on here are posting that it is Colder in Spain than in the UK, and im trying to say that Yes it is relative, but it is wrong to say that the Spanish winter is colder than the UK....


----------



## CHRISJK

jojo said:


> I'm not acclimatised to Spain, as I live most of the time in the UK. I'd say its warm in the sun, but in the shade on a sunny day its "jumper" cold. In the houses and at night it is very cold - hat, coat and scarf cold. Houses arent easy to warm, since few have cnetral heating, insulation or carpets. And they feel damp/cold.
> 
> But in the end, we're all different. But never be lead to believe that Spain doesnt get cold. And dont worry about official statistics - its the chill factor that matters.
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes that's how I feel about the winter temperatures in Spain. As I am JUST a HOLIDAYMAKER, lol. Yes I know it gets cold In Spain as I have said several times. I was Bloody Freezing last March during the day, and just about every night we have ever been there in the winter. I really give up now. please read my other recent post where I am TRYING to make the point that it isn't colder in Spain, but it just feels like it is....


----------



## jojo

CHRISJK said:


> Yes that's how I feel about the winter temperatures in Spain. As I am JUST a HOLIDAYMAKER, lol. Yes I know it gets cold In Spain as I have said several times. I was Bloody Freezing last March during the day, and just about every night we have ever been there in the winter. I really give up now. please read my other recent post where I am TRYING to make the point that it isn't colder in Spain, but it just feels like it is....


I get what you're saying. The statistic numbers/averages show that Spain isnt as cold as the UK. eace: :fish::humble:

Jo xxx


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## CHRISJK

jojo said:


> I get what you're saying. The statistic numbers/averages show that Spain isnt as cold as the UK. eace: :fish::humble:
> 
> Jo xxx


WHooooHooooo.... Thank Yo, Thank You...:bounce: But some Posters are saying that it IS !!! I know that you can get acclimatised BUT the figures say its COLDER in the UK... That's ALL I'm trying to say ( sorry for "shouting" )


----------



## Tigerlillie

CHRISJK said:


> Yes that's how I feel about the winter temperatures in Spain. As* I am JUST a HOLIDAYMAKER, *lol. Yes I know it gets cold In Spain as I have said several times. I was Bloody Freezing last March during the day, and just about every night we have ever been there in the winter. I really give up now. please read my other recent post where I am TRYING to make the point that it isn't colder in Spain, but it just feels like it is....


The OP is not looking to be a holidaymaker, if you read the op you will see this, this is why people have responded the way they have. 
And that is the reason I said that temperature and how you feel it is relative to where you live not to where you go on holiday.
Eventually, as a resident, you will become acclimatised and then when temps are 30 and drop to 15, that will feel the same to people who *live* in Spain as if it were 23 in The UK and dropped 15 degrees to 8 degrees.

Would you still be walking around in a t shirt and shorts then?


----------



## mrypg9

Tigerlillie said:


> The OP is not looking to be a holidaymaker, if you read the op you will see this, this is why people have responded the way they have.
> And that is the reason I said that temperature and how you feel it is relative to where you live not to where you go on holiday.
> Eventually, as a resident, you will become acclimatised and then when temps are 30 and drop to 15, that will feel the same to people who *live* in Spain as if it were 23 in The UK and dropped 15 degrees to 8 degrees.
> 
> Would you still be walking around in a t shirt and shorts then?


Quite


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## Megsmum

CHRISJK said:


> WHooooHooooo.... Thank Yo, Thank You...:bounce: But some Posters are saying that it IS !!! I know that you can get acclimatised BUT the figures say its COLDER in the UK... That's ALL I'm trying to say ( sorry for "shouting" )



Who has said it is colder in Spain. Everyone said, it can be colder and can be the same it can be warmer. Everyone has said they live here and it feels colder right regardless of thermometers

And the figures don't always say it's colder in the U.K. There's been times when I've Skype home, we are cold they are warm. The only guarantee with the weather here is simply it's going to be very very very hot in the summmer Months, depending on where you live


----------



## Tigerlillie

Megsmum said:


> Who has said it is colder in Spain. Everyone said, it can be colder and can be the same it can be warmer. Everyone has said they live here and it feels colder right regardless of thermometers
> 
> *And the figures don't always say it's colder in the U.K.* There's been times when I've Skype home, we are cold they are warm. The only guarantee with the weather here is simply it's going to be very very very hot in the summmer Months, depending on where you live


The Daily Fail quite often has sensational headlines along the lines of:

UK weather to make country warmer than spain this week | Daily Mail Online

UK weather to see Britain hotter than Madrid | Daily Mail Online

Britain will be hotter than Greece as temperatures hit 17C | Daily Mail Online


----------



## mrypg9

CHRISJK said:


> WHooooHooooo.... Thank Yo, Thank You...:bounce: But some Posters are saying that it IS !!! I know that you can get acclimatised BUT the figures say its COLDER in the UK... That's ALL I'm trying to say ( sorry for "shouting" )


The OP is hoping to LIVE in Spain.
And that is the point we are addressing.
It's even possible that anyone hoping to avoid feeling cold (as opposed to reading a thermometer) may find that it FEELS colder in Spain than in the UK after they have lived here for a while and become acclimatised.
As posters have pointed out, poor insulation in most houses combined with damp can be a serious problem for people suffering certain chronic conditions.
So whilst it may be correct to say that statistics show that average UK temperatures are higher than in Spain people living in Spain may possibly experience cold more than people in the UK.14C and cloudy but I'm wearing jeans, 
Today for example it' s 14C and cloudy but I'm wear ing jeans, a vest, wool rollneck and a thick leather jacket and scarf outdoors. When I'm indoors I'll take off the boots, jacket and scarf.
I'm feeling cold even with all that on. My hands are like ice.


----------



## baldilocks

CHRISJK said:


> Yes that's how I feel about the winter temperatures in Spain. As I am JUST a HOLIDAYMAKER, lol. Yes I know it gets cold In Spain as I have said several times. I was Bloody Freezing last March during the day, and just about every night we have ever been there in the winter. I really give up now. please read my other recent post where* I am TRYING to make the point that it isn't colder in Spain, but it just feels like it is*....


That is the whole point, it doesn't matter one iota what it says on the thermometer, it is what YOU, personally, feel. It is currently 16.2° outside but I don't feel particularly warm. In UK it would be the temperature I'd expect to experience on a pleasant summer's day.


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## xabiaxica

Megsmum said:


> Who has said it is colder in Spain. Everyone said, it can be colder and can be the same it can be warmer. Everyone has said they live here and it feels colder right regardless of thermometers
> 
> And the figures don't always say it's colder in the U.K. There's been times when I've Skype home, we are cold they are warm. The only guarantee with the weather here is simply it's going to be very very very hot in the summmer Months, depending on where you live


I do skype classes with some people who live in the UK. The thermometer might say that it's warmer here, but I'm the one with thick jumpers, socks & fluffy slippers, a blanket over my legs & cold hands!

They often have a t-shirt on indoors, in the middle of winter!


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I do skype classes with some people who live in the UK. The thermometer might say that it's warmer here, but I'm the one with thick jumpers, socks & fluffy slippers, a blanket over my legs & cold hands!
> 
> They often have a t-shirt on indoors, in the middle of winter!



We do have much warmer houses in the UK, carpets, insulation, central heating.... hence people wear t-shirts etc. 
Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> We do have much warmer houses in the UK, carpets, insulation, central heating.... hence people wear t-shirts etc.
> Jo xxx


Exactly!

I have never been so hot indoors as when visiting family in the UK in winter, with their carpets, cavity wall insulation, double glazing & central heating set to 20+ºC. When I lived there I would never have dreamed of, nor needed to, wrap up in a blanket on the sofa to watch TV.

Nor so cold indoors as I get in Spain, even in a modernish apartment with double glazing. It's too expensive to heat to that kind of temperature!


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> I do skype classes with some people who live in the UK. The thermometer might say that it's warmer here, but I'm the one with thick jumpers, socks & fluffy slippers, a blanket over my legs & cold hands!
> 
> They often have a t-shirt on indoors, in the middle of winter!


And the central heating set at 24ºC probably. A luxury few of us living in Andalucia have, especially when our gas comes out of bottles. We keep warm by piling on extra layers, which is much healthier. I can't stay long in a centrally-heated room these days, my sinuses get blocked and my throat dries out.


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## bob_bob

In the UK my central heating is set to 19c plus a wood burner in the lounge and another in the study and Aga in the kitchen, only need a jumper when going outdoors. 

That said the temps been in double digits for days, this is the mildest winter in years.


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## CHRISJK

Tigerlillie said:


> The OP is not looking to be a holidaymaker, if you read the op you will see this, this is why people have responded the way they have.
> And that is the reason I said that temperature and how you feel it is relative to where you live not to where you go on holiday.
> Eventually, as a resident, you will become acclimatised and then when temps are 30 and drop to 15, that will feel the same to people who *live* in Spain as if it were 23 in The UK and dropped 15 degrees to 8 degrees.
> 
> Would you still be walking around in a t shirt and shorts then?


I know what the OP said.... They also said that the WARMER weather would be beneficial for their health, but posters on here said that the weather WOULDNT be any warmer... Of course It will be Warmer in Spain. Even if they become "acclimatised to the weather, the actual temperatures in Spain will be warmer than the UK and therefore will be beneficial for their health.....


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## Isobella

CHRISJK said:


> I know what the OP said.... They also said that the WARMER weather would be beneficial for their health, but posters on here said that the weather WOULDNT be any warmer... Of course It will be Warmer in Spain. Even if they become "acclimatised to the weather, the actual temperatures in Spain will be warmer than the UK and therefore will be beneficial for their health.....


Yes, many say it reduces their arthritis pain, although a friend from Madrid says hers is worse on the CDS. One thing to remember is Warmer is good but intense heat in July/August causes many deaths amongst the ill and the elderly.


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## jojo

CHRISJK said:


> I know what the OP said.... They also said that the WARMER weather would be beneficial for their health, but posters on here said that the weather WOULDNT be any warmer... Of course It will be Warmer in Spain. Even if they become "acclimatised to the weather, the actual temperatures in Spain will be warmer than the UK and therefore will be beneficial for their health.....


 Maybe, but cold damp houses arent much help in the winter. I had friends who moved to Spain for the same reasons, they ended up going back for the winter months because of the damp - more than the cold. So thats an option? Another friend of mine, her husband made their house really warm and toasty, by installing a wood burner thing, connecting radiators, putting carpets down and double glazing - that seemed to work for them?! 

But the summer months are very warm - hot and pretty much guarranteed, which makes it all worth while! 

Jo xxx


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## Isobella

bob_bob said:


> In the UK my central heating is set to 19c plus a wood burner in the lounge and another in the study and Aga in the kitchen, only need a jumper when going outdoors.
> 
> That said the temps been in double digits for days, this is the mildest winter in years.


Similar, 20c for me also the CH is set to switch off at 9.30pm. If not the bedrooms are uncomfortably hot.

I know someone who has her CH on constant summer or winter set at 23C! 

Ps. Chilly here today, saw an oldish man in shorts...oooer. Perhaps he is senile ha ha


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## CHRISJK

Megsmum said:


> Who has said it is colder in Spain. Everyone said, it can be colder and can be the same it can be warmer. Everyone has said they live here and it feels colder right regardless of thermometers
> 
> And the figures don't always say it's colder in the U.K. There's been times when I've Skype home, we are cold they are warm. The only guarantee with the weather here is simply it's going to be very very very hot in the summer Months, depending on where you live


It has been said on this tread numerous times that that it is colder/just as cold in Spain, please read through the posts, and YES I know that it "can" be colder in the UK on very rare occasions.... but we are not talking about very rare occasions are we ? we are talking on average.... and we are not talking about it being HOT IN SUMMER ? :nono:


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## mrypg9

Well, if people wish to emigrate for health reasons, we should be talking about summer temperatures. I'd say that summer temperatures can have more of an impact on people's health, especially the elderly and those with existing chronic conditions. More people die in Spain because of intense prolonged heat than of cold.
When you come on holiday it's great to roast yourself for a week or two, if you're so inclined. But two months of temperatures in the high 30s or mid 40s is quite another matter. The first summer we were here we spent almost every day lying by the pool in the full sun. We soon learned.
If you haven't got aircon it can be very unpleasant especially in a piso with small rooms and no garden. We had to sleep with ours on for weeks and often had it on in the day even though our house is airy with high ceilings. That can be expensive.
Some people have a very idealistic and inaccurate view of what it's like to really live in Spain, on a full-time permanent basis. They imagine a life of bue skies, beach, palm trees, sipping wine watching the sunset, the full sales pitch.
That is indeed one side of it (if you're in good employment or retired with adequate means).
But it's only one side.


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## bob_bob

CHRISJK said:


> I know what the OP said.... They also said that the WARMER weather would be beneficial for their health, but posters on here said that the weather WOULDNT be any warmer... Of course It will be Warmer in Spain. Even if they become "acclimatised to the weather, the actual temperatures in Spain will be warmer than the UK* and therefore will be beneficial for their health*.....


Not a great deal of peer reviewed clinical evidence to back up that sweeping statement...possible placebo effect at best.

PS, leave the cap lock key alone...stop shouting.


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## Gran Erry-Bredd

What happens when we get acclimatised to the carpets, double glazing, cavity insulation and central heating ?


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## jojo

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> What happens when we get acclimatised to the carpets, double glazing, cavity insulation and central heating ?


 We go back to it when we need to!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

Isobella said:


> Yes, many say it reduces their arthritis pain, although a friend from Madrid says hers is worse on the CDS. One thing to remember is Warmer is good but intense heat in July/August causes many deaths amongst the ill and the elderly.


Very true. Deaths of the elderly - & not so elderly - from pneumonia & lung infections are more common in this area in summer, than in winter, due to the humidity.

I don't know what my arthritis would be like in the UK, since I've only had problems since we moved here, & was diagnosed a few years ago, but I do often suffer more in the summer than in the winter.


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## CHRISJK

bob_bob said:


> Not a great deal of peer reviewed clinical evidence to back up that sweeping statement...possible placebo effect at best.
> 
> PS, leave the cap lock key alone...stop shouting.


Of course there is evidence relating to warmer temperatures being beneficial to certain medical conditions. Arthritis for example. I am sure that many posters on here will let you know about their experiences of this. Placebo effect....... HAHAHAHA. please be advised that I use CAPITAL LETTERS to Highlight certain things. I did apologise earlier on here for " SHOUTING "


----------



## bob_bob

CHRISJK said:


> Of course there is evidence relating to warmer temperatures being beneficial to certain medical conditions. Arthritis for example. I am sure that many posters on here will let you know about their experiences of this. Placebo effect....... HAHAHAHA. please be advised that I use CAPITAL LETTERS to Highlight certain things. I did apologise earlier on here for " SHOUTING "


Links to clinically proved evidence please.

As a retired ward manager I tend to rely on clinical evidence rather rumour.

Your still shouting, perhaps if you had confidence in the validity of your posts you'd stop...I doubt you will, ****snip*****


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## Pesky Wesky

Good grief.
Why not stick to what the OP wanted to know about?


> Myself and my Husband are wanting out of the UK for many reasons and to move to the warmest place in the whole of Spain including the Balearics, I have some medical problems that would be eased in a warmer dryer winter climate. We did initially believe around costa tropical was this, however when watching new etc it looks like possibly Majorca has better warmer dryer weather in the winter *can anyone assist me with this please* we had hoped to move this spring summer.
> thanks to those who can help
> carol and jeff


Does every thread have to disintergrate into a just few people arguing?


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## mrypg9

The OP's post, as you reminded us, was an enquiry about the climate in Spain ameliorating (unspecified) health problems.
Nearly every poster has addressed that query *as it relates to someone actually resident in Spain.*. Not a part-time resident or someone on holiday but a long-term resident.
There is a very important difference.
It's also been pointed out that whilst a warmer, drier climate may help with some ailments - although if that were medically proven, wouldn't the NHS just buy prepaid lifelong package 'holidays' to Spain, Greece, Malta etc.? - extreme summer heat may in fact be more dangerous to people with some chronic conditions such as cardio or respiratory problems than cold UK temperatures.
It's also relevant that even here in mainly warm and dry western Andalucia people do suffer and actually die from colds, flu, the seasonal things common in the UK. I had worse 'flu here a couple of years ago than I ever had in the UK. Surgeries here give 'flu vaccines to over 65s. There's a reason for that.
People are led by the media, by partly-informed sources, to believe all kinds of myths about Spain. When we who do have experience of what life is like here dispel them, some get upset.
It's not what they want to hear, as you have often said yourself.
Incidentally, I now know why I felt so cold when I arrived here on Sunday. It had been over 18C in Surrey for the time I was there.
Today we've got heavy rain, thunder, it's cold. In fact I've only just got out of bed. Gone half-past eleven and in nightshirt and dressing gown. For shame....


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> The OP's post, as you reminded us, was an enquiry about the climate in Spain ameliorating (unspecified) health problems.
> Nearly every poster has addressed that query *as it relates to someone actually resident in Spain.*. Not a part-time resident or someone on holiday but a long-term resident.
> There is a very important difference.
> It's also been pointed out that whilst a warmer, drier climate may help with some ailments - although if that were medically proven, wouldn't the NHS just buy prepaid lifelong package 'holidays' to Spain, Greece, Malta etc.? - extreme summer heat may in fact be more dangerous to people with some chronic conditions such as cardio or respiratory problems than cold UK temperatures.
> It's also relevant that even here in mainly warm and dry western Andalucia people do suffer and actually die from colds, flu, the seasonal things common in the UK. I had worse 'flu here a couple of years ago than I ever had in the UK. Surgeries here give 'flu vaccines to over 65s. There's a reason for that.
> People are led by the media, by partly-informed sources, to believe all kinds of myths about Spain. When we who do have experience of what life is like here dispel them, some get upset.
> It's not what they want to hear, as you have often said yourself.
> Incidentally, I now know why I felt so cold when I arrived here on Sunday. It had been over 18C in Surrey for the time I was there.
> Today we've got heavy rain, thunder, it's cold. In fact I've only just got out of bed. Gone half-past eleven and in nightshirt and dressing gown. For shame....


Here it is pleasantly warmish at 15.3° but everything is brown with Saharan exports and I can feel that my breathing is suffering slightly.. 

I had never had pneumonia before, but last year I had had it for several months before it was tracked down and I was told that I also had emphysema (previously undiagnosed) and I am not fully fit yet. However there were a lot of cases of pneumonia locally last year and, coincidentally or otherwise, last year was very bad for olive pollen - it was so thick that we shovelled it up off the terrace! Was there a link?

I suffered from frostbite back in 1963 when the temperature didn't get above freezing from 26th December 1962 until 13th March 1963. We arrived in Spain at the beginning of November 2008 and by the end of January 2009, my feet were showing the early signs of frostbite, (blackening of the toes) again!


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> Here it is pleasantly warmish at 15.3° but everything is brown with Saharan exports and I can feel that my breathing is suffering slightly..
> 
> I had never had pneumonia before, but last year I had had it for several months before it was tracked down and I was told that I also had emphysema (previously undiagnosed) and I am not fully fit yet. However there were a lot of cases of pneumonia locally last year and, coincidentally or otherwise, last year was very bad for olive pollen - it was so thick that we shovelled it up off the terrace! Was there a link?
> 
> I suffered from frostbite back in 1963 when the temperature didn't get above freezing from 26th December 1962 until 13th March 1963. We arrived in Spain at the beginning of November 2008 and by the end of January 2009, my feet were showing the early signs of frostbite, (blackening of the toes) again!


I never felt cold when we lived in Cerny Vul....although from late October to March the ground could be snow-covered (real deep snow) and temperatures could fall to -20 C or more with wind chill. In fact I used to feel colder when I went back to the UK.
The reasons for this were straightforward: well-insulated and heated homes and public buildings, public transport, shops etc. and the fact that most people wore appropriate clothing, heads covered, scarves, thick coats, boots, jumpers.
I remember one day shortly after we arrived we went for a walk, it had been snowing and was -9C. When we got back I saw that the backs of my legs were bright red like sunburn from the cold. Unlike sensible OH who wore tights, leggings, jeans, I wore jeans, no tights etc. with my top half well wrapped. I soon learned.


----------



## Alcalaina

bob_bob said:


> Links to clinically proved evidence please.
> 
> As a retired ward manager I tend to rely on clinical evidence rather rumour.


You won't get a reply, because there isn't any. 

There is some evidence that sudden changes in barometric pressure can cause temporary joint pain - but these changes happen in Spain too.


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> You won't get a reply, because there isn't any.
> 
> There is some evidence that sudden changes in barometric pressure can cause temporary joint pain - but these changes happen in Spain too.


That's interesting

I'd always sort of assumed that it was the damp/humidity that made my joints more painful sometimes - but changes in pressure makes more sense. I often know when the weather is going to change because my bad knee swells & my hips hurt more!

This is interesting Weather and Joint Pain: What's the Link?


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> That's interesting
> 
> I'd always sort of assumed that it was the damp/humidity that made my joints more painful sometimes - but changes in pressure makes more sense. I often know when the weather is going to change because my bad knee swells & my hips hurt more!
> 
> This is interesting Weather and Joint Pain: What's the Link?


Happens to me too . Though it's obvious really, the body is 60% water and maintains its own temperature regardless of what the weather is doing, so it has to be something else other than temperature or humidity that is affecting our creaky joints!


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Happens to me too . Though it's obvious really, the body is 60% water and maintains its own temperature regardless of what the weather is doing, so it has to be something else other than temperature or humidity that is affecting our creaky joints!


I knew it couldn't be the cold, because as I posted earlier in the thread, my joints are often worse in the summer than the winter. Since I'd always 'heard' that cold & damp make joint pain worse, it had to be the damp/humidity.

I admit that I'd never thought beyond that & hadn't reasearched it... which really isn't like me!

My right knee is really bad today - I think we have some dodgy weather on the way!


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## Megsmum

It's the same with migraine, atmospheric pressure causes migraines.


----------



## baldilocks

Megsmum said:


> It's the same with migraine, atmospheric pressure causes migraines.


*some* migraines. Mine are mostly stress related and some are caused by bright light.


----------



## Gran Erry-Bredd

I get a migraine whenever CHRISJK starts shouting. I thought that I had frostbite when my toes turned black but my doctor told me that I should wash my feet more often.


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> *some* migraines. Mine are mostly stress related and some are caused by bright light.


Mine are caused by bright light, so I can't go out without sunglasses. Fortunately I don't get the pain, just the fuzzy vision.


----------



## CHRISJK

Pesky Wesky said:


> Good grief.
> Why not stick to what the OP wanted to know about?
> 
> Does every thread have to disintergrate into a just few people arguing?


I have to agree, before I get all the blame  It does look like the OP thinks that the warmer weather will help their medical conditions.... I JUST GIVE UP TRYING TO GET THROUGH TO SOME PEOPLE.... ( Not shouting Honestly, lol )


----------



## CHRISJK

gran erry-bredd said:


> i get a migraine whenever chrisjk starts shouting. I thought that i had frostbite when my toes turned black but my doctor told me that i should wash my feet more often.


hahahahahaha.......


----------



## baldilocks

CHRISJK said:


> I have to agree, before I get all the blame  It does look like the OP thinks that the warmer weather will help their medical conditions.... I JUST GIVE UP TRYING TO GET THROUGH TO SOME PEOPLE.... ( Not shouting Honestly, lol )


If you want to emphasise parts of your post, you can use *bold*, _italics_, underline, different colours, different size text or any combination of them. There is no need to use caps.


----------



## CHRISJK

xabiachica said:


> I knew it couldn't be the cold, because as I posted earlier in the thread, my joints are often worse in the summer than the winter. Since I'd always 'heard' that cold & damp make joint pain worse, it had to be the damp/humidity.
> 
> I admit that I'd never thought beyond that & hadn't reasearched it... which really isn't like me!
> 
> My right knee is really bad today - I think we have some dodgy weather on the way!


Hhhmmmmm..... I too thought that it was the temperature that affected my/our Arthritis. I will research this and will "hold my hand up" if it stands up to scrutiny...


----------



## CHRISJK

baldilocks said:


> If you want to emphasise parts of your post, you can use *bold*, _italics_, underline, different colours, different size text or any combination of them. There is no need to use caps.


Thanks for that.... I really don't know how to do all that. I will try to do that in future


----------



## CHRISJK

xabiachica said:


> That's interesting
> 
> I'd always sort of assumed that it was the damp/humidity that made my joints more painful sometimes - but changes in pressure makes more sense. I often know when the weather is going to change because my bad knee swells & my hips hurt more!
> 
> This is interesting Weather and Joint Pain: What's the Link?


I'm Confused... I read the article with an open mind, and it seems at first to refute the popular belief that moving to a warmer location improves the pain of Arthritis, But !!! then it says this :- " Stay warm. Dressing in layers, keeping your home heated, and warming up the car before you get in can help ease pain related to cold weather, according to the National Institutes of Health. Also try sleeping under an electric blanket or warming clothes in the dryer " Surely this contradicts the earlier part of the Article ?


----------



## mrypg9

CHRISJK said:


> I'm Confused... I read the article with an open mind, and it seems at first to refute the popular belief that moving to a warmer location improves the pain of Arthritis, But !!! then it says this :- " Stay warm. Dressing in layers, keeping your home heated, and warming up the car before you get in can help ease pain related to cold weather, according to the National Institutes of Health. Also try sleeping under an electric blanket or warming clothes in the dryer " Surely this contradicts the earlier part of the Article ?


Not really. Won't it depend on ambient humidity and temperature?

Like I said earlier, if Spain were such a panacea for all ailments, the NHS would send people off to Benidorm or somewhere.


----------



## jojo

CHRISJK said:


> I'm Confused... I read the article with an open mind, and it seems at first to refute the popular belief that moving to a warmer location improves the pain of Arthritis, But !!! then it says this :- " Stay warm. Dressing in layers, keeping your home heated, and warming up the car before you get in can help ease pain related to cold weather, according to the National Institutes of Health. Also try sleeping under an electric blanket or warming clothes in the dryer " Surely this contradicts the earlier part of the Article ?


 lol!! Just to really "throw the cat amongst the pigeons", my arthritis went when I stopped eating wheat and sugar lol!!!

Back to the topic though, there will always be times when its cold - or rather when people feel cold, so being in a warmer climate may not be much different from being in a toasty warm house, car office in the UK, or living with the air con on in a hotter climate??! 


Jo xxx


----------



## 95995

jojo said:


> lol!! Just to really "throw the cat amongst the pigeons", my arthritis went when I stopped eating wheat and sugar lol!!!
> 
> Back to the topic though, there will always be times when its cold - or rather when people feel cold, so being in a warmer climate may not be much different from being in a toasty warm house, car office in the UK, or living with the air con on in a hotter climate??!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Air conditioning really sets off my arthritis pain! I now avoid it like the plague (in Australia I relied almost entirely on ceiling fans, although I occasionally turned on the reverse cycle air conditioner (which was only in the living room) for max 15 minutes to bring the ambient temperature down, but I left the room when I did so. OTOH I find I tolerate dry cold very well, as long as it's not windy. 

Where I live in France it is very humid and there are few breezes - once the summer temps get above 30 or so (and they do get to the high 30s and brush 40 here) I find I get more pain.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.


----------



## Megsmum

Really really off topic 
Since I stopped carbs and sugar I'm 17Lbs lighter, and my Crohns has improved significantly

Just saying


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## jeffcaz02

I was actually advised some years ago that a warmer drier climate would be far more beneficial to relieving my medical ills, I have a few things I suffer with not just Arthritis, a back condition where my discs are dehydrated & degenerating, nerve pain in legs hips and foot. which ive just had a nerve conductive study completed, awaiting results on this...


----------



## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> I was actually advised some years ago that a warmer drier climate would be far more beneficial to relieving my medical ills, I have a few things I suffer with not just Arthritis, a back condition where my discs are dehydrated & degenerating, nerve pain in legs hips and foot. which ive just had a nerve conductive study completed, awaiting results on this...


My daughter sufferers from degeneration of the discs etc. I feel your pain


Not sure how old your are, but with pre existing conditions, will you need medical cover when you move?


----------



## cermignano

A number of years ago, my sister had a holiday home in southern Florida. Following two serious ops, (we thought she was a gonner), my old ma was stiff as a board and getting worse in our Scottish winter. She started spending the winters in Florida aged 80 to 90 and the difference was like a miracle. Within a few weeks she was cycling on three wheeler, doing a walk of the gated community twice a day, swimming every day and dancing at the many community dos. Also took part in the numerous community picnics etc. She said that before this she felt as if she was waiting to die. But now felt born again. It was the warm weather for her and being able to be outside.


----------



## Isobella

cermignano said:


> A number of years ago, my sister had a holiday home in southern Florida. Following two serious ops, (we thought she was a gonner), my old ma was stiff as a board and getting worse in our Scottish winter. She started spending the winters in Florida aged 80 to 90 and the difference was like a miracle. Within a few weeks she was cycling on three wheeler, doing a walk of the gated community twice a day, swimming every day and dancing at the many community dos. Also took part in the numerous community picnics etc. She said that before this she felt as if she was waiting to die. But now felt born again. It was the warm weather for her and being able to be outside.


We thought of Florida, Warmer in the evenings. The medical is a problem. We could afford it but what happens if you have a heart attack/stroke/dementia. The insurance doesn't want to know when renewal comes up. Although it may be the same in Europe after Brexit!


----------



## CHRISJK

jeffcaz02 said:


> I was actually advised some years ago that a warmer drier climate would be far more beneficial to relieving my medical ills, I have a few things I suffer with not just Arthritis, a back condition where my discs are dehydrated & degenerating, nerve pain in legs hips and foot. which ive just had a nerve conductive study completed, awaiting results on this...


We have had exactly the same advice, for my Arthritis and my Wifes bad back which is similar to yours. When an article was quoted on here supposedly refuting that warmth is good for the above conditions, the Author contradicted himself by saying that people had to wrap up and keep warm ???


----------



## baldilocks

Isobella said:


> We thought of Florida, Warmer in the evenings. The medical is a problem. We could afford it but what happens if you have a heart attack/stroke/dementia. The insurance doesn't want to know when renewal comes up. Although it may be the same in Europe after Brexit!


That was the reason we decided not to go to Florida where we had a villa that the in-laws were living in. That plus if climate change meant rising sea levels then much of FL would become exceedingly damp not to mention the hurricanes.


----------



## cermignano

I have to say the insurance was astronomical. Also spent the 6 winter months there as not allowed to stay longer than that. Same for the snowbirds from Canada. People for whom money was no object spent the summer months in other warm countries


----------



## Horlics

This thread is funny.


----------



## Alcalaina

cermignano said:


> A number of years ago, my sister had a holiday home in southern Florida. Following two serious ops, (we thought she was a gonner), my old ma was stiff as a board and getting worse in our Scottish winter. She started spending the winters in Florida aged 80 to 90 and the difference was like a miracle. Within a few weeks she was cycling on three wheeler, doing a walk of the gated community twice a day, swimming every day and dancing at the many community dos. Also took part in the numerous community picnics etc. She said that before this she felt as if she was waiting to die. But now felt born again. It was the warm weather for her and being able to be outside.


So the warm weather means you can go out and get more exercise, instead of sitting all hunched up indoors.

Did her stiffness go before or after she started exercising?


----------



## 95995

Alcalaina said:


> So the warm weather means you can go out and get more exercise, instead of sitting all hunched up indoors.
> 
> Did her stiffness go before or after she started exercising?


I don't think it's just the exercise, though. Having activities etc available (without having to brave horrid cold weather) and being able to relate to a network of other people IMO also has a beneficial effect.


----------



## Isobella

EverHopeful said:


> I don't think it's just the exercise, though. Having activities etc available (without having to brave horrid cold weather) and being able to relate to a network of other people IMO also has a beneficial effect.


Yes, I have the urge to hibernate in cold weather. There used to be a travel slogan,_Florida, a state of mind_


----------



## jeffcaz02

I have been told whilst still in the EU I wouldn't but eventually I would be recommended too. That is unless I become a resident and register for it.

carol


----------



## jeffcaz02

Did the move help your wife 

thank you carol


----------



## jeffcaz02

Sweetheart you would nat think that if you life was stopped aged 38. im now 49 and the past 5 years have been the most miserable aging time of my life, every day full of pain. 

I hope you never feel it.


----------



## jeffcaz02

49 but feel 79 most days....


----------



## mrypg9

jeffcaz02 said:


> I have been told whilst still in the EU I wouldn't but eventually I would be recommended too. That is unless I become a resident and register for it.
> 
> carol


You won't be eligible for 'free' health care at your age unless you get contracted employment. So-called free health care is available only to people receiving the State Retirement Pension.
In order to become resident you must show an income of around 600 euros a month per person paid into a Spanish bank account plus savings as well as proof that you have comprehensive health insurance unless you already have a contract of employment.
In Spain there is no Housing Benefit, no Tax Credits or other UK benefits.
I read somewhere that if we leave the EU a minimum yearly income of 30000euros per couple may be needed for new applicants for residency even if retired.


----------



## jeffcaz02

Thanks but ive checked and I can still claim my PIP Care Element and ESA. The reason for going is so ill feel better therefore beable to get a job, this isnt something for five minuets its for life.. My Husband is a qualified chef with over 25yrs experience and is already applying for work on a permanent basis. I had been told wed qualify for health care with our E11 cards but if that proves not then its not an issue getting insurance lot do it so it cannot be so difficult.


----------



## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thanks but ive checked and I can still claim my PIP Care Element and ESA. The reason for going is so ill feel better therefore beable to get a job, this isnt something for five minuets its for life.. My Husband is a qualified chef with over 25yrs experience and is already applying for work on a permanent basis. I had been told wed qualify for health care with our E11 cards but if that proves not then its not an issue getting insurance lot do it so it cannot be so difficult.


E11 , I think is only for travelers ie tourists, but I could be wrong so if no use when applying for residency, although I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong 

Do not assume getting insurance will be easy especially if you have pre existing conditions, because those conditions will not be covered, plus you'll pay full price for medication. However if your husband can secure full time work that's good, but I'm not sure if that covers the whole family.

Be also mindful that in a post Brexit world, the benefits you think you can get may not be available then, they may be but it's something to consider


----------



## jojo

Megsmum said:


> E11 , I think is only for travelers ie tourists, but I could be wrong so if no use when applying for residency, although I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong
> 
> Do not assume getting insurance will be easy especially if you have pre existing conditions, because those conditions will not be covered, plus you'll pay full price for medication. However if your husband can secure full time work that's good, but I'm not sure if that covers the whole family.
> 
> Be also mindful that in a post Brexit world, the benefits you think you can get may not be available then, they may be but it's something to consider


 Yes the E111 is the EHIC card and is only for tourists, not residents. 

Jo xxx


----------



## Lynn R

jeffcaz02 said:


> its not an issue getting insurance lot do it so it cannot be so difficult.


It isn't an issue providing you don't have any pre-existing conditions (which you say you do). These have to be declared when you apply for cover, and as Megsmum says, the company will either exclude those conditions from the cover they are prepared to provide (which is not much use to you and no use for the purpose of registering as a resident either, because cover for that purpose has to be comprehensive) or if they are prepared to cover them, the premiums will be much higher. With private health insurance, you also have to pay 100% of the cost of any medications you need in addition to the premiums.

If your husband can succeed in getting a job with a proper employment contract, that would provide you both with health cover.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thanks but ive checked and I can still claim my PIP Care Element and ESA. The reason for going is so ill feel better therefore beable to get a job, this isnt something for five minuets its for life.. My Husband is a qualified chef with over 25yrs experience and is already applying for work on a permanent basis. I had been told wed qualify for health care with our E11 cards but if that proves not then its not an issue getting insurance lot do it so it cannot be so difficult.


You need to go to an official source to get information. The E11*1* card, which as already pointed out is also the *EHIC,* is for residents of the UK, not for British people resident in Spain. 


> If you are a resident in the UK, you should apply for your EHIC before travelling to other European Union Member States. A UK EHIC is usually valid for three to five years – but if you stop being a UK resident, you need to return your EHIC to the Department of Health immediately.


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain
This link also gives info on prescription charges and health insurance


----------



## jeffcaz02

Thank you 

I do sometimes get the feeling that some would prefer it if no one else went to Spain to live ... Is it getting too tight for space out there.

carol


----------



## jeffcaz02

Thanks But that is what I always thought , until a friend went to live in Portugal 2 years ago and was told by the people she worked for that she could use the E111 for up to 6 months no problems which she did without issue.. 
they now are in Malta where im not sure if it works the same ..


----------



## baldilocks

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thank you
> 
> I do sometimes get the feeling that some would prefer it if no one else went to Spain to live ... Is it getting too tight for space out there.
> 
> carol


WE all had to abide by the rules to be able to live here, we are merely acquainting you with those rules so that you will be able to get all your things together and will not be disappointed by the Spanish officialdom rejecting your applications.


----------



## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thank you
> 
> I do sometimes get the feeling that some would prefer it if no one else went to Spain to live ... Is it getting too tight for space out there.
> 
> carol


REALLY,

No it's fine, we are taking the time to explain how it works, if you don't like the replies then that's up to you. People have simply told you the rules, regulations and the truth.

Whether you come or not is up to you. Life here is tough enough for the Spanish trying to look for work, there are residency requirements which have been explained to you. Healthcare is a concern for those of us living here thinking about Brexit. 

Why would we not want you to come, and how can telling someone the facts be construed as that.


----------



## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thanks But that is what I always thought , until a friend went to live in Portugal 2 years ago and was told by the people she worked for that she could use the E111 for up to 6 months no problems which she did without issue..
> they now are in Malta where im not sure if it works the same ..


You can't use the E11 to get residency in Spain. She was lucky, if you have an ongoing condition the E11 will mean nothing, it's for emergency treatment only


----------



## jojo

Moving to and living in Spain, if you dont have an income source isnt easy. Employment isnt easy to get and the Spanish healthcare and social welfare rules are not the same as in the UK and are contribution based, as opposed to residency based. 

So please dont think anyone is trying to put you off, we're simply furnishing you with the facts, so that you can make the right decisions for you. Remember knowledge is king, so you need to know all of this.

Jo xxx


----------



## jeffcaz02

It was actually meant as a light hearted comment... only.

not as a observation... I understand that some people take me the wrong way I do apologise... I initially only registered so I could find out about the winter weather... .. my husband is still considering wanting to move a lot further away.. if I can make a good case for spain then I am closer to my children and grandchildren


----------



## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> It was actually meant as a light hearted comment... only.
> 
> not as a observation... I understand that some people take me the wrong way I do apologise... I initially only registered so I could find out about the winter weather... .. my husband is still considering wanting to move a lot further away.. if I can make a good case for spain then I am closer to my children and grandchildren



Children and grandchildren are certainly a huge factor., but you have to consider everything, no point being close to children etc, with no jobs or income

Good luck with wherever you decide


----------



## Alcalaina

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thanks But that is what I always thought , until a friend went to live in Portugal 2 years ago and was told by the people she worked for that she could use the E111 for up to 6 months no problems which she did without issue..
> they now are in Malta where im not sure if it works the same ..


The EHIC (formerly E111) is for _temporary _visits to another EU country. There is no official time limit for what is considered a temporary visit, but different countries have different rules for using it. After three months in Spain, you would be officially a resident, and you might be refused treatment if you were relying on it.


----------



## Alcalaina

jeffcaz02 said:


> Thank you
> 
> I do sometimes get the feeling that some would prefer it if no one else went to Spain to live ... Is it getting too tight for space out there.
> 
> carol


That's just daft. What we don't want is for people to come over and get nasty surprises! Those of us who have been here for years have seen it happen time and time again ...


----------



## Horlics

Hey Op,

Just wondering where you're now thinking might be the best place for you, having read 17 pages of posts.

For the next 7 days my bit of Spain is 20+ during the daytime and down to 10 in the early hours. I see Wolverhampton is rain for 6 of the next 7 days and temps as high as 8 and as low as -1. 

Seems like the ideal time for a recce, although Spain may well feel much colder than the -1 at home.


----------



## mrypg9

jeffcaz02 said:


> It was actually meant as a light hearted comment... only.
> 
> not as a observation... I understand that some people take me the wrong way I do apologise... I initially only registered so I could find out about the winter weather... .. my husband is still considering wanting to move a lot further away.. if I can make a good case for spain then I am closer to my children and grandchildren


Posters on this Forum are as Alca said merely concerned that people considering a move to Spain know ALL the things that have to be taken into account before hand. It's so easy and understandable to get a skewed idea of things from programmes like 'A Place in the Sun' and so on. Another dubious source of information is from some Brits...those who are neither resident or don't really get involved in Spanish life and goings-on, not that there's anything wrong with that.
It's a lot more complicated than that. Spain has rules, requirements and expectations of prospective immigrants and these may well become more stringent post-Brexit. 
Loads of other things to think about too. On another thread you said you want to live in a 'Spanish village'. That's fine if you speak good Spanish, have transport, don't have health issues - the nearest consultorio or hospital may be a fair distance away. If you want family to visit you might consider being near to an airport.
Lots of practical things like that.
Nearly all posters on this thread are either comfortably retired or in work. Most of us are to some degree fluent in Spanish. Many of us have lived in other countries before coming to Spain. But because we have been living here we have an insight into how things really are for full-time residents. When we moved here from Prague I found this site a great help in so many things I needed to know and I still use it frequently for more mundane queries like 'Where can I buy fridge furniture' and 'I need help with cleaning my swimming pool'. 
We aim to help but we can't always please.
Wish we could


----------



## Lynn R

Alcalaina is right - those of us who have been here for quite some time have seen it all before, and too many people come to grief, not to warn would-be new arrivals of the pitfalls.

Not far from me, a couple in their 50s arrived just over two years ago, and bought a house. They were absolutely convinced they would both be able to find jobs - they didn't. So they bought a bar in a neighbouring resort (despite much advice to the contrary from other British people living nearby). The husband cashed in a pension fund to be able to do it. As predicted, they couldn't generate enough trade and the bar closed more than six months ago, with them having lost all the money they'd put into it. Their house was put up for sale for less than they'd paid for it (not even taking into account the 10% they'd have paid in tax and legal costs on top of the purchase price). It still hasn't sold in spite of the price having been reduced twice, and when they eventually do sell it they'll have 5% estate agent's commission to pay out of the proceeds so overall they will have lost quite a bit. And he'll have no private pension to supplement his eventual state pension because that money has been spent.

It's watching such car crashes from the sidelines which motivate us to make sure people are aware of the obstacles they're likely to face.


----------



## jeffcaz02

Hi

Weve settled on the costa tropical/ Granada Almeria areas.. with scope for my hubby to work anywhere in the costa del sol to Almeria.

cheers 
caz


----------



## jeffcaz02

Afternoon, 
We could never consider living anywhere rowdy.., we prefer rural or semi rural areas. places that attract holidaymakers wanting to party in loud bars and nightclubs are our idea of hell. Regarding the language we defiantly want to learn spainish, we have been advised the best way is too attend a local class in the area we settle in, as its better easier to get the dialect as well as just learning the language.. 

Cheers Carol


----------



## jeffcaz02

I do appreciate all of this information and warning, it such seems there are no positive messages... my hubby wont move anywhere until he has a job secured and permanent. I would just leave here as lifes too short to hold back from lifes experience's, but since my medical problems he is far more considered...we also will only rent a property..
WE SEE PEOPLE ON SOME OF THE SERIES AND WONDER IF THEY HAVE EVEN THROUGHT THREW THERE PLANS AS IT COMES ACROSS AS NOT SO.. a BAR IS TOO SATURATED FIELD FOR ANYONE TO MAKE IT NOW. PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH AT ALL.
The couple who opened the Blue Marlin seem to of thought everything through and have walked before getting carried away. unlike the air yoga business woman.
regards carol


----------



## cermignano

Glad you made your choice. Good luck. Keep us posted


----------



## Megsmum

jeffcaz02 said:


> I do appreciate all of this information and warning, it such seems there are no positive messages... my hubby wont move anywhere until he has a job secured and permanent. I would just leave here as lifes too short to hola back from lifes experience's, but since my medical problems he is far more considered...we also will only rent a property..
> WE SEE PEOPLE ON SOME OF THE SERIES AND WONDER IF THEY HAVE EVEN THROUGHT THREW THERE PLANS AS IT COMES ACROSS AS NOT SO.. a BAR IS TOO SATURATED FIELD FOR ANYONE TO MAKE IT NOW. PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH AT ALL.
> The couple who opened the Blue Marlin seem to of thought everything through and have walked before getting carried away. unlike the air yoga business woman.
> regards carol


That's because for those needing work, including those the Spanish, there is not a great deal of positivity around. Whilst aspects of the Spanish economy are improving, austerity is still here and still very hard for millions of Spanish people, who know the systems, speak the language and are....well....Spanish. Many people already living and working here have concerns and issues. So whilst we appreciate your circumstances, it would be wrong to not give you an overall picture. 

You've stated an area, but you'll need to, imho, looking at where potential jobs are.


----------



## mrypg9

jeffcaz02 said:


> I do appreciate all of this information and warning, it such seems there are no positive messages... my hubby wont move anywhere until he has a job secured and permanent. I would just leave here as lifes too short to hold back from lifes experience's, but since my medical problems he is far more considered...we also will only rent a property..
> WE SEE PEOPLE ON SOME OF THE SERIES AND WONDER IF THEY HAVE EVEN THROUGHT THREW THERE PLANS AS IT COMES ACROSS AS NOT SO.. a BAR IS TOO SATURATED FIELD FOR ANYONE TO MAKE IT NOW. PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH AT ALL.
> The couple who opened the Blue Marlin seem to of thought everything through and have walked before getting carried away. unlike the air yoga business woman.
> regards carol


Not so...if you were in your twenties, single or with no dependants and something to fall back on in the UK if things go pear-shaped, or if you were retired with ample savings and a good pension income and in reasonable health, I'd say 'Go for it'. 
But you have serious health problems, could face steep medical bills and without good Spanish and those all-important contacts which take time to build up your chances of finding work, especially in a quieter area. are not high. You really need to know that, disheartening as it may seem.
TV programmes give a very partial picture of real life here. The producers are in the business of attracting viewers so they will focus on the odd, the bizarre, sometimes the plain loony. The lives of most of us here are very ordinary, not enough interest for reality tv.
Take my day so far....I got up, had a quick coffee then set off for the dog rescue centre which I help run as President. It's in a beautiful setting, the foothills of the Sierra Bermeja, quite high above sea-level so I guess it's a more interesting journey to work that the 49 to Tooting, even if anyone driving on the rough track takes their life in their hands.
I got there at 09.00 and immediately had to sort out a work dispute between two very heated and querulous Spanish employees. This took some time (and was stressful as I had to stifle the urge to tell them both to **** off and get on with their jobs like adults.).
I spent most of the rest of the day checking dog records and talking to prospective adopters.
Then I came home, moaned to OH and prepared a very late lunch. Now having a break from catching up with e-mails. At some point dogs will have to be walked. Then supper, at home today, read in bed and sleep. Much of the same tomorrow.
Life isn't really that different here. Just as in the UK, I'm involved in local politics and voluntary work. That's what a lot of we retired British immigrants do here.
My advice would be come for a holiday to your chosen area, spend as much time as you can. Find out for yourself how things are on the ground. Don't listen to Brits in bars who tell you they live happily 'under the radar'. Check out the local un/employment scene at first hand. 
Make local friends. Work usually comes through a friend of a friend, if it comes at all.
And be very very cautious. Have a Plan B. Remember no-one knows what Brexit may bring.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Latest uemployment figures in Spain
Paro por municipios: Alicante (Comunidad Valenciana) 2017 | datosmacro.com
Choose the area you want from the drop down menu in the white boxes. I can tell you it's much less in the north than in the south


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## Madliz

If the UK had an unemployment rate of 20% (like Spain) instead of 4%, what would you say to a Spaniard looking for work in the UK? He doesn't speak English, is planning to move to London and will be look for work between Brighton and Cornwall (roughly the same distance between the CdS and Almería). Maybe his hopes of making a success of it would be slim, but at least in the UK he would be able to apply for numerous benefits. 

When the roles are reversed, there are no such helping hands here. When you can't get a job, there is nothing but whatever you have left from your savings. 

As stated before, we are not being negative, merely trying to educate 'foreigners' about the system and life they will encounter, because we ourselves have the experience they do not.

I do hope your dreams come true, and hope you will come back and relate your experiences if you decide to give life here a try.


----------



## jojo

jeffcaz02 said:


> I do appreciate all of this information and warning, it such seems there are no positive messages... my hubby wont move anywhere until he has a job secured and permanent. I would just leave here as lifes too short to hold back from lifes experience's, but since my medical problems he is far more considered...we also will only rent a property..
> WE SEE PEOPLE ON SOME OF THE SERIES AND WONDER IF THEY HAVE EVEN THROUGHT THREW THERE PLANS AS IT COMES ACROSS AS NOT SO.. a BAR IS TOO SATURATED FIELD FOR ANYONE TO MAKE IT NOW. PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH AT ALL.
> The couple who opened the Blue Marlin seem to of thought everything through and have walked before getting carried away. unlike the air yoga business woman.
> regards carol



We moved to Spain in 2008. My husband was going into business with a friend of his. We arrived as the recession started, so the business he was going into didnt/couldnt happen and my husband needed to keep close reigns on the business we had in the UK. So he commuted - I tried for three years to get work in Spain, while he was funding us. I eventually got some bar work - full time, including weekends for 200€ a month (until the bar went bust). Eventually we returned to the UK, very thankful that we hasdnt sold our UK house (we rented it out) or bought one in Spain (it would have lost a fortune and been difficult to sell.

Thi s whole process cost alot of money. But we are now back in the UK, husbands business here has taken off and we've just bought a bolthole in Spain - which is where I am desperate to be. But times are no better there now, so we're going to have to wait to move there permanently.

I'm writing this from cold and windy Worthing (but a lovely warm house!), just so you know that not everyone on the forum is "living the dream"


Jo xxx


----------



## baldilocks

jojo said:


> We moved to Spain in 2008. My husband was going into business with a friend of his. We arrived as the recession started, so the business he was going into didnt/couldnt happen and my husband needed to keep close reigns on the business we had in the UK. So he commuted - I tried for three years to get work in Spain, while he was funding us. I eventually got some bar work - full time, including weekends for 200€ a month (until the bar went bust). Eventually we returned to the UK, very thankful that we hasdnt sold our UK house (we rented it out) or bought one in Spain (it would have lost a fortune and been difficult to sell.
> 
> Thi s whole process cost alot of money. But we are now back in the UK, husbands business here has taken off and we've just bought a bolthole in Spain - which is where I am desperate to be. But times are no better there now, so we're going to have to wait to move there permanently.
> 
> I'm writing this, just so you know that not everyone on here is "living the dream"
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


However there are others of us who moved here at the same time (2008) and are still here quite happily living in our dream/ paradise here on earth/ call your own happy place what you will.


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## jojo

baldilocks said:


> However there are others of us who moved here at the same time (2008) and are still here quite happily living in our dream/ paradise here on earth/ call your own happy place what you will.


 Indeed! If you have an independant source of income and are of an age where you dont need to take out private health insurance it is alot easier. But its very dependant on your own personal situation. Everyone should know the pitfalls

Jo xx


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## Horlics

Hey Op,

I moved from a coastal town in the north of England to the midlands and it was only when I went back that I realised how really really really windy my old home town is. There are things you don't notice when entrenched. 

Then I went to live abroad and realised just what a whiny miserable bunch the British are. Where I went to live we used to have a saying "don't be British about it", about a whole range of things that could wind a person up but were in fact easy to dismiss. So, expect a bit of scepticism (although IMO the Brits in Spain have mostly shaken the trait).

That said, whilst I think the severity of winter in Spain (the bits where Brits tend to go) has been overstated here, what's being said about the employment situation is accurate. Many Spaniards I meet these days have kids working in the UK. There's a reason for that; the jobs are in the UK, not in Spain. If your future there is dependent on work you really should make sure you have that arranged before you cut any ties.


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## mrypg9

Horlics said:


> Hey Op,
> 
> .
> 
> Then I went to live abroad and realised just what a whiny miserable bunch the British are. Where I went to live we used to have a saying "don't be British about it", about a whole range of things that could wind a person up but were in fact easy to dismiss. So, expect a bit of scepticism (although IMO the Brits in Spain have mostly shaken the trait).
> .


Yes, I've met Brits who whine and whinge in Spain, Prague, Canada and elsewhere.
They are nearly always those who thought that leaving the UK would help them escape all their problems, that their new 'lifestyle' would be one of leisure and enjoyment with no mundane worries (this applies mainly to those who left for warmer climes), that they could easily fit in (integrate) into their new surroundings, who thought that everyone from the humblest peasant to the grandest entrepreneur would speak or understand English (even in Canada...Quebec) and that, really, all that was needed was a plane ticket and enough cash to 'tide them over'.
Some of them were upset that the real life they found wasn't at all like what they'd seen on those tv programmes or what this bloke they met in a bar on holiday in Benidorm told them..

But yes, most of us have more sense and have nothing to whinge about because we thought carefully in the first place before we left.


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## CHRISJK

Horlics said:


> Hey Op,
> 
> Just wondering where you're now thinking might be the best place for you, having read 17 pages of posts.
> 
> For the next 7 days my bit of Spain is 20+ during the daytime and down to 10 in the early hours. I see Wolverhampton is rain for 6 of the next 7 days and temps as high as 8 and as low as -1.
> 
> Seems like the ideal time for a recce, although Spain may well feel much colder than the -1 at home.


Why will Spain feel colder than at home for someone coming over for a "recce" When the temperatures are 20+/10 in Spain and 8/-1 in the UK. ?


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## CHRISJK

jeffcaz02 said:


> I do appreciate all of this information and warning, it such seems there are no positive messages... my hubby wont move anywhere until he has a job secured and permanent. I would just leave here as lifes too short to hold back from lifes experience's, but since my medical problems he is far more considered...we also will only rent a property..
> WE SEE PEOPLE ON SOME OF THE SERIES AND WONDER IF THEY HAVE EVEN THROUGHT THREW THERE PLANS AS IT COMES ACROSS AS NOT SO.. a BAR IS TOO SATURATED FIELD FOR ANYONE TO MAKE IT NOW. PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH AT ALL.
> The couple who opened the Blue Marlin seem to of thought everything through and have walked before getting carried away. unlike the air yoga business woman.
> regards carol


Be careful if you use Capitals you will be castigated on here for "SHOUTING"...... Lol


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## baldilocks

CHRISJK said:


> Why will Spain feel colder than at home for someone coming over for a "recce" When the temperatures are 20+/10 in Spain and 8/-1 in the UK. ?


Whee we live, during the next fortnight we may get up to 16° but on other days we may be lucky to get up to a max of only 6 or 7°

It often feels colder in Spain because of the lack of central heating, lack of fully fitted carpets, lack of curtains and other soft furnishings, draughts, etc.


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## CHRISJK

Horlics said:


> Hey Op,
> 
> I moved from a coastal town in the north of England to the midlands and it was only when I went back that I realised how really really really windy my old home town is. There are things you don't notice when entrenched.
> 
> Then I went to live abroad and realised just what a whiny miserable bunch the British are. Where I went to live we used to have a saying "don't be British about it", about a whole range of things that could wind a person up but were in fact easy to dismiss. So, expect a bit of scepticism (although IMO the Brits in Spain have mostly shaken the trait).
> 
> That said, whilst I think the severity of winter in Spain (the bits where Brits tend to go) has been overstated here, what's being said about the employment situation is accurate. Many Spaniards I meet these days have kids working in the UK. There's a reason for that; the jobs are in the UK, not in Spain. If your future there is dependent on work you really should make sure you have that arranged before you cut any ties.


" I think the severity of winter in Spain (the bits where Brits tend to go) has been overstated here " Thank you Horlicks, that's just what I have been trying to say on here.


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## CHRISJK

baldilocks said:


> Whee we live, during the next fortnight we may get up to 16° but on other days we may be lucky to get up to a max of only 6 or 7°
> 
> It often feels colder in Spain because of the lack of central heating, lack of fully fitted carpets, lack of curtains and other soft furnishings, draughts, etc.


 Surely that is for indoors only ?


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## Horlics

So, about this laid back lifestyle. Maybe it's not only that most of us are retired, maybe we're mirroring the locals....

Have a look at the first minute and a half of this. Who agrees? (you're going to need Spanish for this one)


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## xabiaxica

CHRISJK said:


> Surely that is for indoors only ?


Exactly

As mentioned previously, it's often much colder indoors than out


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## 95995

The other thing is that if the temp drops from a high of 22 or 20 to a low of, say 8, that's a big difference and you will notice it (possibly more than you would if the temp drops say 6-8 degrees from the highest for the day to the lowest for the night). IMHO and in my experience


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## baldilocks

CHRISJK said:


> Surely that is for indoors only ?


Nope, they are our forecast maximum outdoor temperatures over the next week. Today the max was 11, tomorrow and Thursday 16, Friday 14 Saturday 6, Sunday 7


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## 95995

baldilocks said:


> Nope, they are our forecast maximum outdoor temperatures over the next week. Today the max was 11, tomorrow and Thursday 16, Friday 14 Saturday 6, Sunday 7


Similar to the sort of thing we're experiencing where I live - we've gone from maximums of 20 to 8 and all over the place between in the last few days. Max 20 yesterday, max 8 today - so I really felt the cold today, whereas when the temps don't rocket around so much I feel quite comfortable even when it's around 2 or even 0 (as long as appropriately dressed of course - and I was wearing my warmest winter coat to walk my dog today).


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## Lynn R

EverHopeful said:


> The other thing is that if the temp drops from a high of 22 or 20 to a low of, say 8, that's a big difference and you will notice it (possibly more than you would if the temp drops say 6-8 degrees from the highest for the day to the lowest for the night). IMHO and in my experience


On Thursday, where I live we are forecast to have a high of 20C and a low of 5 - I think I'm definitely going to feel chilly that night! On Saturday the maximum forecast is 13C, with rain.


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## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> On Thursday, where I live we are forecast to have a high of 20C and a low of 5 - I think I'm definitely going to feel chilly that night! On Saturday the maximum forecast is 13C, with rain.


Our Mins are: 3°, 2°, 4°, 2°, 1°, 1°. from tonight.


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## Pesky Wesky

Horlics said:


> So, about this laid back lifestyle. Maybe it's not only that most of us are retired, maybe we're mirroring the locals....
> 
> Have a look at the first minute and a half of this. Who agrees? (you're going to need Spanish for this one)
> 
> 5 Cynthia's Insights Spain vs England Work and Play LightSpeed Spanish - YouTube


Para nada.
Rubbish!
Try telling that to my client who on a typical day spends the whole day working in English with an average of 2 meetings a day (sometimes the whole day in meetings) and is also studying at the uni (a masters or doctorado, don't know which) and has just moved house in the middle of this all without taking time off work.
Tonight I had class with a group, finished at 18:00, they were staying to finish off a presentation and had gone in an hour early in the morning (at 8:00)
Another group at midday have been doing an hour extra _minimum_ 4 days a week for years and years and never get paid overtime.
Rarely have I heard them complain about their work.

Of course there must be people who moan about their work and are dissatisfied and who are inefficient, but I don't think it's a Spanish trait by any means.

Customer service call centres are another thing though. There I have definitely encountered deficiencies.


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## Horlics

baldilocks said:


> Our Mins are: 3°, 2°, 4°, 2°, 1°, 1°. from tonight.


I'm in the North West of England at the mo and the lows are around 5, but I'd take lower in return for less rain. It's starting to look biblical out there.


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## baldilocks

Horlics said:


> I'm in the North West of England at the mo and the lows are around 5, but I'd take lower in return for less rain. It's starting to look biblical out there.


How's the Ark going?


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## Poloss

baldilocks said:


> How's the Ark going?


Just out of interest, do you get the same weather phenomena on the southern slopes of the Sierra Nevada as we do here in France on the southern slopes of the Massif Central?
I mean by that up to a third of your annual rainfall over a 48 hour period?


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## baldilocks

Poloss said:


> Just out of interest, do you get the same weather phenomena on the southern slopes of the Sierra Nevada as we do here in France on the southern slopes of the Massif Central?
> I mean by that up to a third of your annual rainfall over a 48 hour period?


I'm not on the southern slopes of the Sierra Nevada. I am in the SW corner of the Sierra Sur de Jaén and we are situated in a 'bowl,' i.e. there are mountains all around us. This means that while others are getting rain, we are relatively dry because the mountains force the clouds to divert. However once clouds get into the 'bowl' they can't get out too easily. We also, at times, get cloud-bound so everything gets soaked even when it is not actually raining.


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## Horlics

Pesky Wesky said:


> Para nada.
> Rubbish!


Andalucia? ;-)


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## Pesky Wesky

Horlics said:


> Andalucia? ;-)


Maybe. I've never worked in Andalucia, but I do work with Andalucians...
I remember one bank manager (Spanish) used to complain a lot about the Andalucian attitude when he was opening a branch in that area...


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## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Maybe. I've never worked in Andalucia, but I do work with Andalucians...
> I remember one bank manager (Spanish) used to complain a lot about the Andalucian attitude when he was opening a branch in that area...


False facts. Andalucians are often mocked as being idle, lazy good-for-nothings. I can assure you that they are not. The majority are hard working and do not avoid work when they can get it*. In this part of Andalucía (Jaén Province,) the unemployment percentage, at just 6.9%, speaks for itself. The majority of the world's olives are grown here and we also produce the majority of the world's extra virgin olive oil. This village produces a third of the cherries grown in Spain and supplies Ferrero with the cherries for their Mon Cherie chocolates. We also produce almonds, peaches, apricots, pomegranates, kaquis, quinces, etc. and everywhere there is blossom for the fruit varieties and the cherries are only just coming into flower. We also grow a fair amount of oranges. 

Fruit growing is labour intensive and working on the hill and mountainsides with surfaces pitched at angles up to 40° is very hard work - I would have difficulty even standing up on those slopes let alone working on them.

* Many Andalucians go to France Switzerland and Germany to help with their harvests of fruit, especially the grapes and many vineyards in all three countries employ Andalucians to manage the vines. When they return, there are often lots of foreign goodies (cheeses, fruit, sausages, etc.) arriving on our doorsteps


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## Alcalaina

Horlics said:


> So, about this laid back lifestyle. Maybe it's not only that most of us are retired, maybe we're mirroring the locals....
> 
> Have a look at the first minute and a half of this. Who agrees? (you're going to need Spanish for this one)


It made me cringe. I know so many people here who work hard and many more who would love to if given the chance - it's just insulting to insinuate they are lazy. There may be a cultural difference in the work-life balance though. Here people work to live, not the other way round, which is how it should be. You rarely see Spanish people checking their work emails on a Saturday night, unlike an English friend I was with last weekend.

Another cultural difference is the attitude to time. Northern Europeans and Americans tend to have a "sequential" approach:


> ...people from a sequential culture may prefer to have a detailed agenda for meetings and regular milestones throughout the life cycle of a project. They rely on this structure and can find a more flexible approach to time frustrating. Time tends to control and influence what people do in sequential cultures, and many will find value in the expression ‘time is money’.


Whereas Spain, Latin America, Italy, Greece etc have a "synchronic" approach:



> In synchronic cultures, people will have a much broader and more flexible perception of time. As such time is adaptable and allows much more freedom for tasks to be achieved. People from synchronic cultures don’t tend to be slaves to time, but rather they use time as guidance for how they structure their day and life.


https://www.communicaid.com/cross-c...ectively-across-cultures-perceptions-of-time/

So a British person might get very agitated having to wait for 20 minutes to get served in the post office, whereas for a Spanish person that's not a problem because they know everything on their list will be attended to once they get to the front of the queue - even if it takes 20 minutes!


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Maybe. I've never worked in Andalucia, but I do work with Andalucians...
> I remember one bank manager (Spanish) used to complain a lot about the Andalucian attitude when he was opening a branch in that area...


Attitudes to Andalucians in the rest of Spain are very similar to the (hopefully now obsolete) British attitude to the Irish - lazy and stupid, but they know how to have a good time. I suspect they are just jealous! )


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## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> False facts. Andalucians are often mocked as being idle, lazy good-for-nothings. I can assure you that they are not. The majority are hard working and do not avoid work when they can get it*. In this part of Andalucía (Jaén Province,) the unemployment percentage, at just 6.9%, speaks for itself. The majority of the world's olives are grown here and we also produce the majority of the world's extra virgin olive oil.


Are you watching the new Canal Sur drama series "Entreolivos"? Some of it is set in your neck of the woods.

It's a bit like Dallas, but a different kind of oil ...

Canal Sur estrena la nueva serie de ficción "Entreolivos"


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## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> Are you watching the new Canal Sur drama series "Entreolivos"? Some of it is set in your neck of the woods.
> 
> It's a bit like Dallas, but a different kind of oil ...
> 
> Canal Sur estrena la nueva serie de ficción "Entreolivos"


I don't watch television, never have done so, apart from the odd programme that caught my eye. When I have tried to watch a programme recently I've not been able to hear 80-90% of what is said because of the incidental music. I am more of a bookworm!


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## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> I don't watch television, never have done so, apart from the odd programme that caught my eye. When I have tried to watch a programme recently I've not been able to hear 80-90% of what is said because of the incidental music. I am more of a bookworm!


Shame! I recently read a very good book that was set in the Sierra Sur and mentions your town, plus some of its resistance fighters in the postwar years like Cencerro. Not available in English yet though.

El lector de Julio Verne, de Almudena Grandes, mejor libro del año para los lectores | Cultura | EL PAÍS


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## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> Shame! I recently read a very good book that was set in the Sierra Sur and mentions your town, plus some of its resistance fighters in the postwar years like Cencerro. Not available in English yet though.


Took a look at Entreolivos on the Canal Sur site (your link) and I'll point it out to SWMBO but from what I saw it is not my scene. 

Have recently read Michael Jacobs' book "The Light Factory" which is also set in the Sierra Sur de Jaén to give it its full name. Know all about Cencerro, having read the book (in Spanish - hard going in places) published by the Ayuntamiento which surprised me because, at the time it was PP. Our neighbour is Cencerro's cousin as is the m-i-l's hairdresser.

El Lector de Julio Verne will be here tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.


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## Megsmum

Alcalaina said:


> It made me cringe. I know so many people here who work hard and many more who would love to if given the chance - it's just insulting to insinuate they are lazy. There may be a cultural difference in the work-life balance though. Here people work to live, not the other way round, which is how it should be. You rarely see Spanish people checking their work emails on a Saturday night, unlike an English friend I was with last weekend.
> 
> Another cultural difference is the attitude to time. Northern Europeans and Americans tend to have a "sequential" approach:
> 
> 
> Whereas Spain, Latin America, Italy, Greece etc have a "synchronic" approach:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.communicaid.com/cross-c...ectively-across-cultures-perceptions-of-time/
> 
> So a British person might get very agitated having to wait for 20 minutes to get served in the post office, whereas for a Spanish person that's not a problem because they know everything on their list will be attended to once they get to the front of the queue - even if it takes 20 minutes!


That was a very interesting post, which my husband and are now, hotly debating :target:


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## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> So a British person might get very agitated having to wait for 20 minutes to get served in the post office, whereas for a Spanish person that's not a problem because they know everything on their list will be attended to once they get to the front of the queue - even if it takes 20 minutes!


and the plus point is the Andalucian will be relaxed, having lots of conversation with different people and generally socialising. It is just like going into the waiting room at the health centre, many who are there have still an hour or more until the time of their appointments and use that time for catching up with those who, perhaps live at the other end of the village and are only seen when their appointments at the health centre are on the same days. Nobody here gets uptight about waiting. If somebody happens to be in a hurry, then the others will stand back and yield.


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## Gran Erry-Bredd

Hi Alcalaina, you seemed to have missed something in your own post. "Northern Europeans and Americans have a sequential approach to time"...whereas..."Spain, Latin America, Italy, Greece have a synchronic approach." Which of these two groups would you say are more productive and wealthy. And which group is more likely to be corrupt with higher unemployment and in a mess financially. Of course Brits get impatient in queues, they've got a lot of stuff to do before the end of the day ! :washing:


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## Gardenofengland

This is our 2nd winter stay in Almunecar and it is warmer and drier than Folkestone. We arrived the mid of Jan and until Beginning of April and we will come back for a 6 week stay in Sept/Oct as it is too hot for us in summer. We will be back again in Jan 2018 for another 10 to 12 weeks. It is cool at night but make sure the place you rent is in a sunny position and not an old stone house they are freezing.


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## Alcalaina

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> Hi Alcalaina, you seemed to have missed something in your own post. "Northern Europeans and Americans have a sequential approach to time"...whereas..."Spain, Latin America, Italy, Greece have a synchronic approach." Which of these two groups would you say are more productive and wealthy. And which group is more likely to be corrupt with higher unemployment and in a mess financially. Of course Brits get impatient in queues, they've got a lot of stuff to do before the end of the day ! :washing:



There might well be a link between a sequential approach to time and increased wealth. There might also be a link between a synchronic approach and happiness. Depends what your priorities are I suppose. 

As for corruption, I don't see it - could you enlarge on that?

And why do Brits have more "stuff to do" than the Spanish? 

The fact that you said "by the end of the day" supports the theory that Brits are deadline-driven. It's likely most of these things don't really need to be done by the end of the day - mañana will do.


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## Alcalaina

Gardenofengland said:


> This is our 2nd winter stay in Almunecar and it is warmer and drier than Folkestone. We arrived the mid of Jan and until Beginning of April and we will come back for a 6 week stay in Sept/Oct as it is too hot for us in summer. We will be back again in Jan 2018 for another 10 to 12 weeks. It is cool at night but* make sure the place you rent is in a sunny position* and not an old stone house they are freezing.


And if you are in a valley, make sure it's still sunny in winter! Friends of mine bought a house in June and didn't realise that between October and March it was completely in the shade... Trigonometry is your friend.


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## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> That was a very interesting post, which my husband and are now, hotly debating :target:


Do let us know the outcome!


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## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> Took a look at Entreolivos on the Canal Sur site (your link) and I'll point it out to SWMBO but from what I saw it is not my scene.
> 
> Have recently read Michael Jacobs' book "The Light Factory" which is also set in the Sierra Sur de Jaén to give it its full name. Know all about Cencerro, having read the book (in Spanish - hard going in places) published by the Ayuntamiento which surprised me because, at the time it was PP. Our neighbour is Cencerro's cousin as is the m-i-l's hairdresser.
> 
> El Lector de Julio Verne will be here tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.


Just ordered a second-hand copy of The Factory of Light - thanks!


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## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> Just ordered a second-hand copy of The Factory of Light - thanks!


I read "People of the Sierras" not long ago and from what I recall, Alcalá was mentioned several times, not the one near here (la Real) but since there are several in your area, I'm not sure whether it was your one or not.


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## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> I read "People of the Sierras" not long ago and from what I recall, Alcalá was mentioned several times, not the one near here (la Real) but since there are several in your area, I'm not sure whether it was your one or not.


No, it wasn't ours. It was somewhere near Grazalema, about 50 km northeast of here.

Alcalá comes from the arabic Al Qalat = the castle. So there are loads, all over Spain.


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## 95995

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> Hi Alcalaina, you seemed to have missed something in your own post. "Northern Europeans and Americans have a sequential approach to time"...whereas..."Spain, Latin America, Italy, Greece have a synchronic approach." *Which of these two groups would you say are more productive and wealthy. **And which group is more likely to be corrupt with higher unemployment and in a mess financially. *Of course Brits get impatient in queues, they've got a lot of stuff to do before the end of the day ! :washing:


Not sure that cause and effect here are valid. There are 'northern European' countries that are not necessarily up there in the productivity/wealth stakes, eg. some countries in Eastern Europe.


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