# Senior, marriage and move to Nurnberg



## expatgal

Hello everyone.
This is my first post and I have a few questions.
I am 62, a US citizen, resident and a widow.
I have traveled to Germany many times and for most of those times as a tourist. 
I met a wonderful gentleman through mutual friends, we fell in love and are now engaged.
He is a German naional and lives in Nurnberg. 
I have several questions. I retired on my late husbands Social Security, we had no children together, however he had three children, all are adults in their forties, and we no longer have a relationship. I have a sister with whom I am extremely close to, and we would like to sponsor her down the road.
When we marry, is it true that I will be granted permission to join my husband and live permanently in Germany? Will this take a long time to be approved? Do I apply here in CA?
I have no criminal record. I did have a problem with the IRS after my husbands death, which after almost two years has been cleared up. No back taxes are due. Will this be a problem?
If I am granted permission to join him, will I also be able to work in Germany? I will still collect S.S. 
Inheritance, of course anything I have I would like my husband and sister to inherit, not my late husbands children. Will this be a problem?
Which is quicker and less troublesome, marrying here in the states or Germany, as far as receiving permission to reside in Nurnberg?
Thank you in advance.
Brooke


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## MrTweek

> When we marry, is it true that I will be granted permission to join my husband and live permanently in Germany? Will this take a long time to be approved? Do I apply here in CA?


Yes, if you are married to a German, you will be able to live and work there as well.



> I have no criminal record. I did have a problem with the IRS after my husbands death, which after almost two years has been cleared up. No back taxes are due. Will this be a problem?


That should not be an issue. You have no criminal record and no outstanding debt, so you are "clean". Do you have anything that proofs that everything has been cleared up? You probably won't need it, but you never know.



> If I am granted permission to join him, will I also be able to work in Germany? I will still collect S.S.


Yes. Any other income will probably increase your tax level though.



> Which is quicker and less troublesome, marrying here in the states or Germany, as far as receiving permission to reside in Nurnberg?


Probably not much difference, I assume US marriages are completely recognised in Germany. Getting married in Germany will probably mean less documents to be translated though, so it'd be slightly less of a hassle.


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## ALKB

expatgal said:


> Hello everyone.
> This is my first post and I have a few questions.
> I am 62, a US citizen, resident and a widow.
> I have traveled to Germany many times and for most of those times as a tourist.
> I met a wonderful gentleman through mutual friends, we fell in love and are now engaged.
> He is a German naional and lives in Nurnberg.
> I have several questions. I retired on my late husbands Social Security, we had no children together, however he had three children, all are adults in their forties, and we no longer have a relationship. I have a sister with whom I am extremely close to, and we would like to sponsor her down the road.
> When we marry, is it true that I will be granted permission to join my husband and live permanently in Germany? Will this take a long time to be approved? Do I apply here in CA?
> I have no criminal record. I did have a problem with the IRS after my husbands death, which after almost two years has been cleared up. No back taxes are due. Will this be a problem?
> If I am granted permission to join him, will I also be able to work in Germany? I will still collect S.S.
> Inheritance, of course anything I have I would like my husband and sister to inherit, not my late husbands children. Will this be a problem?
> Which is quicker and less troublesome, marrying here in the states or Germany, as far as receiving permission to reside in Nurnberg?
> Thank you in advance.
> Brooke



Marrying a non-EU national in Germany requires quite a bit of paperwork, which all needs to be translated in to German, although for US citizens it's not as bad as for a lot of other nationalities.

It's much quicker, easier and cheaper to marry in the US and then just have your marriage certificate translated into German.


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## Bevdeforges

German inheritance laws are considerably more "flex" than those in neighboring France (which is where I live) - but even there, you would have no obligation to pass anything on to your step-children. You should probably look into drawing up a will once you get to Germany and get settled, though, just to be sure.
Cheers,
Bev


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## expatgal

ALKB said:


> Marrying a non-EU national in Germany requires quite a bit of paperwork, which all needs to be translated in to German, although for US citizens it's not as bad as for a lot of other nationalities.
> 
> It's much quicker, easier and cheaper to marry in the US and then just have your marriage certificate translated into German.


Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
If we marry in the US, will it be a quicker or longer process to get approval for me to join my husband? 
Will there be an income requirement? 
Will I need to jump through the hoops as others do, or is it smooth sailing?
Thank you!


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## expatgal

MrTweek said:


> Yes, if you are married to a German, you will be able to live and work there as well.
> 
> That should not be an issue. You have no criminal record and no outstanding debt, so you are "clean". Do you have anything that proofs that everything has been cleared up? You probably won't need it, but you never know.
> 
> Yes. Any other income will probably increase your tax level though.
> 
> Probably not much difference, I assume US marriages are completely recognised in Germany. Getting married in Germany will probably mean less documents to be translated though, so it'd be slightly less of a hassle.


Yes, US marriages are recognised in Germany. from my understanding, marriage ceremonies in Germany takes quite awhile to get approval, paperwork, etc. In the US, especially CA, after applying for a marraige license, one may be married in 24 hours, if not less. 
Yes, I have proof from IRS the tax obligation has been reconciled. :clap2:
thank you for your insight and help.
Brooke


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## expatgal

Bevdeforges said:


> German inheritance laws are considerably more "flex" than those in neighboring France (which is where I live) - but even there, you would have no obligation to pass anything on to your step-children. You should probably look into drawing up a will once you get to Germany and get settled, though, just to be sure.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Bev , this is a relief. when I lost my husband, I inherited everything (not much), but step children gave me such hell, I gave quite a bit to them, and that chapter is closed.

It's important that this next chapter be as trouble free as can be. It's my wish for my new husband-to-be and my dear sister only, inherit from me.

We had originally thought to retire in France, I love it there. But, the inheritance laws...tooo stressful. Anyway, Germany and France are very close! 
I have traveled to France many times through the years and I have many friends who make their home in the south, it was my first choice. 
It's funny, my fiance was willing to come to the US to marry and live, but I am more adventurous, and have less family. He has a home he shared with his late wife, now we need to make the decision...live in his home, or start anew. I truly believe starting anew is the best choice, perhaps more expensive, but will have less shadows!

Thank you!
Brooke


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## ALKB

expatgal said:


> Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
> If we marry in the US, will it be a quicker or longer process to get approval for me to join my husband?
> Will there be an income requirement?
> Will I need to jump through the hoops as others do, or is it smooth sailing?
> Thank you!


As you do not require a visa to enter Germany, it should suffice to register your residence and then go to the local Ausländerbehörde to apply for a residence permit. They might ask for a tennancy agreement and proof of health insurance (as a spouse you should be included in your husband's insurance but better check that and get it in writing from the insurance). You will also need biometric passport photos.

Depending on where you will live (I forgot to check whether you mentioned that in your first post) you might get your initial one-year-residence-permit on the spot as a sticker in your passport or you might have to wait about three weeks for a biometric card. The residence permit for spouses of German nationals id free of charge.

I'd get all the translations and the insurance stuff done as soon as possible after arriving in Germany and get an appointment to submit your papers. Remember you need to get this done within 90 days.

If you don't have a will, normally all your assets should go to your spouse as per German inheritance laws. Step children are not eligible if you did not adopt them. But drawing up a will is always better!


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## expatgal

ALKB said:


> As you do not require a visa to enter Germany, it should suffice to register your residence and then go to the local Ausländerbehörde to apply for a residence permit. They might ask for a tennancy agreement and proof of health insurance (as a spouse you should be included in your husband's insurance but better check that and get it in writing from the insurance). You will also need biometric passport photos.
> 
> Depending on where you will live (I forgot to check whether you mentioned that in your first post) you might get your initial one-year-residence-permit on the spot as a sticker in your passport or you might have to wait about three weeks for a biometric card. The residence permit for spouses of German nationals id free of charge.
> 
> I'd get all the translations and the insurance stuff done as soon as possible after arriving in Germany and get an appointment to submit your papers. Remember you need to get this done within 90 days.
> 
> If you don't have a will, normally all your assets should go to your spouse as per German inheritance laws. Step children are not eligible if you did not adopt them. But drawing up a will is always better!


Thank you for all the information, It will save me lots of time. No, I didn't adopt the step children, so all i fine on this point. 
We still need to decide what country to marry in, and once that is made we can go forward. I have most of the documents requested, and those that are too old I can request anew. With everything you have shared it still seems too easy. 
I never thought at this age I would have such an exciting life. Thirty years ago it was said that a woman over thirty had a better chance of being killed by a terrorist, than getting married! 
I was worried about my age, perhaps it might be considered by the officials as too old to give permission for residence. 
I was shocked by the cost of health insurance, but it is what it is.
Oh, I started German language classes a few years ago, just to take up time.,so glad I did, now I am taking night classes. 
I don't find the language difficult, just the gutteral sounds.
Life is exciting!

Thanks again!
I'll keep everyone updated.
In answer to question, Nurnberg is where we'll be living.


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## ALKB

expatgal said:


> Thank you for all the information, It will save me lots of time. No, I didn't adopt the step children, so all i fine on this point.
> We still need to decide what country to marry in, and once that is made we can go forward. I have most of the documents requested, and those that are too old I can request anew. With everything you have shared it still seems too easy.
> I never thought at this age I would have such an exciting life. Thirty years ago it was said that a woman over thirty had a better chance of being killed by a terrorist, than getting married!
> I was worried about my age, perhaps it might be considered by the officials as too old to give permission for residence.
> I was shocked by the cost of health insurance, but it is what it is.
> Oh, I started German language classes a few years ago, just to take up time.,so glad I did, now I am taking night classes.
> I don't find the language difficult, just the gutteral sounds.
> Life is exciting!
> 
> Thanks again!
> I'll keep everyone updated.
> In answer to question, Nurnberg is where we'll be living.



Nürnberg is a lovely place!

Age should not be an issue when joining your German spouse - and anyhow, you are far from old!

Maybe your future husband could go to the Ausländerbehörde already to get the forms and ask which documents would be needed?

Aufenthaltserlaubnis - Einwohneramt Nürnberg

Here it only says passport, proof of adequate accommodation, proof of health insurance and proof of income and proof of the reason to be in Germany (your marriage certificate and its translation if applicable). They also say to ask which additional documents would be needed in the individual case.

Berlin always asks for biometric pictures and the registration certificate, which you should always carry with you together with your passport, it's your proof of address.

I think you will be asked to pass a very basic German language test at some point, it's a fairly new addition to our immigration laws. You might be eligible for an integration course, which is usually paid for by the government (JobCenter or Ministry for immigration) and gives you a year long intensive language course together with all sorts ofinformation about Germany in general - customs, culture, politics, society... Attending this course would also exempt you from the language test should you decide to take German nationality later on.


I married my husband in Denmark because going there for a week and getting married was easier, faster and cheaper than doing it at the nearest registry office in Berlin. The Danish marriage certificate also came in four languages and didn't need translating - very convenient


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## expatgal

ALKB said:


> Nürnberg is a lovely place!
> 
> Age should not be an issue when joining your German spouse - and anyhow, you are far from old!
> 
> Maybe your future husband could go to the Ausländerbehörde already to get the forms and ask which documents would be needed?
> 
> Aufenthaltserlaubnis - Einwohneramt Nürnberg
> 
> Here it only says passport, proof of adequate accommodation, proof of health insurance and proof of income and proof of the reason to be in Germany (your marriage certificate and its translation if applicable). They also say to ask which additional documents would be needed in the individual case.
> 
> Berlin always asks for biometric pictures and the registration certificate, which you should always carry with you together with your passport, it's your proof of address.
> 
> I think you will be asked to pass a very basic German language test at some point, it's a fairly new addition to our immigration laws. You might be eligible for an integration course, which is usually paid for by the government (JobCenter or Ministry for immigration) and gives you a year long intensive language course together with all sorts ofinformation about Germany in general - customs, culture, politics, society... Attending this course would also exempt you from the language test should you decide to take German nationality later on.
> 
> 
> I married my husband in Denmark because going there for a week and getting married was easier, faster and cheaper than doing it at the nearest registry office in Berlin. The Danish marriage certificate also came in four languages and didn't need translating - very convenient


Such good information! Perhaps the intregation class is for me, I love taking classes, and I have found through the years it's an excelent avenue to making new friends and also gaining insights. 
The first time I flew to Germany it was Frankfurt which introduced me to the wonderful people and then I went on to Nurnberg, I fell in love with it and never guessed it would be my future home. Surprises are wonderful.
My fiance will be here in a few weeks and we'll discuss what should be done first, I think he'll do what needs be at his home (information and documents) first. do you think it will be required that my name be on what we call here in the states, a deed?
Is it possible in Germany for couples to have separate banking accounts? We would like a joint and for each to have a separate account.
Well, Denmark is now another consideration for marriage. Neither one of us has been there and my sister would love to go! 
I look forward to the day when this process is complete and I am able to offer my experience to all those adventurous souls here on EXPAT!
Thank you again!


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## ALKB

expatgal said:


> Such good information! Perhaps the intregation class is for me, I love taking classes, and I have found through the years it's an excelent avenue to making new friends and also gaining insights.
> The first time I flew to Germany it was Frankfurt which introduced me to the wonderful people and then I went on to Nurnberg, I fell in love with it and never guessed it would be my future home. Surprises are wonderful.
> My fiance will be here in a few weeks and we'll discuss what should be done first, I think he'll do what needs be at his home (information and documents) first. do you think it will be required that my name be on what we call here in the states, a deed?
> Is it possible in Germany for couples to have separate banking accounts? We would like a joint and for each to have a separate account.
> Well, Denmark is now another consideration for marriage. Neither one of us has been there and my sister would love to go!
> I look forward to the day when this process is complete and I am able to offer my experience to all those adventurous souls here on EXPAT!
> Thank you again!



It is indeed possible to have separate bank accounts or a joint bank account or a joint account plus separate accounts.

No need to put your name on the deed for residence permit application purposes. Most people in Germany rent, so usually you'd show a tennancy agreement as proof of accommodation. In your case the registration at his address should be enough plus anything that shows that your fiance owns the property.

For our marriage we called the town hall of a small town near the German border (the Danish Embassy gave us the number) and they sent us a very simple form to complete and return with copies of a few documents. A few weeks later we got a letter stating that we could come to the town hall at any given Monday at 9am with the originnal documents to register our intent to marry and would then be married on Friday of that week. We went in February so everything was a bit cold and empty but in summer it must be absolutely gorgeous!


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## Bugwart

My daughter, a US citizen, married a German citizen in the US. She was already a resident of Germany, having pair German taxes for more than 2 years. 

She did find that the marraige license had their name mispelled. The town clerk in the town where they were married corrected it. This seemed to be all that she needed. 

One thing to check is driving license reciprocity. California and B-W do not have reciprocity, so she had to go through the same process as a German getting her first driving license. Check whether Bayern and your US state have a reciprical license agreement.


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## expatgal

*Thank you!*

Thanks everyone for the great information! I truly appreciate it.
We're working through the paperwork and the many decisions to be made. do I sell my home and what do I leave behind? Things are just that.
I have a question for those in the know. 
Does anyone know of a town or disrict ie: county..named Bartlews, Germany?
I found a piece of information that has it listed for a relative.

Thanks again...it looks like I'll be a married woman before the end of the year and living in Germany!!! Life is indeed fabulous!!


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## MrTweek

expatgal said:


> Does anyone know of a town or disrict ie: county..named Bartlews, Germany?
> I found a piece of information that has it listed for a relative.


That sounds more like a name than a city or town. Wikipedia doesn't know of it, so it probably doesn't exist.


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## expatgal

*Thank You!*



MrTweek said:


> That sounds more like a name than a city or town. Wikipedia doesn't know of it, so it probably doesn't exist.


MrTweek,
Thanks, I also googled and came up with nothing. I am wondering if the name would have anything to do with an occupation, many years ago.
Thanks so very much.


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## ALKB

expatgal said:


> Thanks everyone for the great information! I truly appreciate it.
> We're working through the paperwork and the many decisions to be made. do I sell my home and what do I leave behind? Things are just that.
> I have a question for those in the know.
> Does anyone know of a town or disrict ie: county..named Bartlews, Germany?
> I found a piece of information that has it listed for a relative.
> 
> Thanks again...it looks like I'll be a married woman before the end of the year and living in Germany!!! Life is indeed fabulous!!


I'd leave any sort of electronics (anything with a plug, really). To be true, I'd also leave all furniture unless you have something that is very valuable and dear to your heart.

Actually, if it is very valuable and dear to your heart, I'd probably rather give it to friends or family to take care of than to send it on a transatlantic journey.

Is the source of that 'Bartlews' piece of information handwritten and rather old? German cursive was quite different from other countries' writing and is easily misread.


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## expatgal

ALKB said:


> I'd leave any sort of electronics (anything with a plug, really). To be true, I'd also leave all furniture unless you have something that is very valuable and dear to your heart.
> 
> Actually, if it is very valuable and dear to your heart, I'd probably rather give it to friends or family to take care of than to send it on a transatlantic journey.
> 
> Is the source of that 'Bartlews' piece of information handwritten and rather old? German cursive was quite different from other countries' writing and is easily misread.


No, the furniture is beautiful, but through the years I've had two homes burgled, and after that I discovered things are just things. I have wonderful memories and photos. I will keep my pots and pans and mom's dinnerware and silverware, little things. 
'Bartlews' is indeed a piece of a letter and an address that has been torn away from the envelope. Yes, it's cursive and difficult to read and very old. I would guess almost one hundred years. I can't make out if it's a surname...as mentioned before or a town. I found it in a small packet of great grandma's momentos.
I''ve been working on my family tree adn thought "bingo" relatives in Germany!

Thanks for your reply.


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## ALKB

expatgal said:


> No, the furniture is beautiful, but through the years I've had two homes burgled, and after that I discovered things are just things. I have wonderful memories and photos. I will keep my pots and pans and mom's dinnerware and silverware, little things.
> 'Bartlews' is indeed a piece of a letter and an address that has been torn away from the envelope. Yes, it's cursive and difficult to read and very old. I would guess almost one hundred years. I can't make out if it's a surname...as mentioned before or a town. I found it in a small packet of great grandma's momentos.
> I''ve been working on my family tree adn thought "bingo" relatives in Germany!
> 
> Thanks for your reply.


Not having to ship any furniture will make moving ever so much less expensive, too. I sold all my furniture when moving to the UK from Germany because it would have cost a fortune to bring over and most would not have fit right in the houses and flats here anyhow.

Do you have a scan of the address? I studied Sütterlin (old German cursive style) to be able to transcribe my great grandparents' letters from around 1900. If you feel comfortable with that I could try to make out what it says.


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## expatgal

ALKB said:


> Not having to ship any furniture will make moving ever so much less expensive, too. I sold all my furniture when moving to the UK from Germany because it would have cost a fortune to bring over and most would not have fit right in the houses and flats here anyhow.
> 
> Do you have a scan of the address? I studied Sütterlin (old German cursive style) to be able to transcribe my great grandparents' letters from around 1900. If you feel comfortable with that I could try to make out what it says.


They say it's better late than never, I want to thank you for your offer. My sister asked for the info and I sent it to her. She has an associate who told her it was a surname.
If I run across anything else I will take you up on your offer.

Now for the good news. Everything is running as to plans, with one adjustment. 
We have decided to marry in Denmark!
It takes the stress off the both of us. Someone on this site suggsted a service that will arrange eveything, and for much less than I could. It is beautiful!
My sister will attend and of course my soon to be groom will have a few friends and relatives. I am so exctied, to be this age and I feel as if Iam 21 again.
Thank you for the offer!
I'll keep you posted to my adventure.....still much to do.


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