# Has anyone circumcised their baby boy in Spain?



## Skyewalter

We're having our 4th child in August, first one in Spain. It's going to be a boy. My husband and my two boys were circumcised at birth in the US, and I don't want this little guy to be different. Has anyone gone through the circumcision of their baby boy in Spain and did the hospital do it? Or the pediatrician? Did you have to fight to get it done? Any tips you can give me? THANK YOU!!!


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## VFR

Skyewalter said:


> We're having our 4th child in August, first one in Spain. It's going to be a boy. My husband and my two boys were circumcised at birth in the US, and I don't want this little guy to be different. Has anyone gone through the circumcision of their baby boy in Spain and did the hospital do it? Or the pediatrician? Did you have to fight to get it done? Any tips you can give me? THANK YOU!!!


Assuming that there is not a religious reason ?, my tip is leave the little rascal alone to enjoy his foreskin as nature intended.


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## jojo

Ask the hospital/medical staff who are looking after your pregnancy or your health centre??? I'm sure there are many done, but I dont know who you could ask - a bit of a weird one to ask too!!!

jo xxxx


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## Caz.I

The only parents I know here who had their son circumcised went to Morocco to have it done. Though the father is from there so it was a traditional Moroccan ceremony. But I would have thought it could be done here privately through a clinic??


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## Tallulah

Hi Skyewalter - nice to see you here again! And congratulations by the way!

Have a word with your local GP who should be able to organise a "volante" or advise, or go direct to Sergas who are the SS of Galicia - they can carry out this at local hospitals (nearest to us is Juan Canalejo) but for Santiago I'm not so sure, but there is a waiting list (recent article was published regarding this in the medical sector as there is quite a wait in Vigo as well). It may be that to forego the waiting list you end up going private, but it's certainly not unheard of here.

Take care.

Tallulah.x


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## gerrit

Hospitals do the trick probably, I even heard that some people from abroad have surgery of all sorts done in Spain. However, I gotta agree with Playamonte.


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## rjnpenang

I saw it done a few years ago at a synagogue in Marbella, performed by the Rabbi (I think). Regards Rob


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## gerrit

In Judaism, the guy doing this job is called a mohel. This may be a rabbi but often is not. In theory, the Torrah commands the father should perform the Brit Mitzvah (the command of cutting) but as most fathers aren't too keen on that ...  I do know one guy in Israel who performed it himself on his two sons and said it was a lot easier than expected. 

Unless you are jewish though (and even amongst Jews, objection to circumcision grows steadily) there is no obligation for it as no other religion commands it (Islam neither no, although it's a tradition in Islam. Some mufti's also command it but this is their own vision, while it is not amongst the rules described in the Quran. A former colleague of mine converted to Islam but refused the circumcision part, he was told it wasn't necessary in the first place to be accepted as Muslim)


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## Malone

Skyewalter said:


> We're having our 4th child in August, first one in Spain. It's going to be a boy. My husband and my two boys were circumcised at birth in the US, and I don't want this little guy to be different. Has anyone gone through the circumcision of their baby boy in Spain and did the hospital do it? Or the pediatrician? Did you have to fight to get it done? Any tips you can give me? THANK YOU!!!




Hi, Firstly congratulations on your new (well a three month old) boy!!:clap2:We're going to have a boy soon and are in the same situation, did you have any luck finding out where to have this done? I mean we have been searching for ages and all we could find is doctors that wanted to use a general anasthetic and do it after at least a year...... have you had any luck? Any ideas would be VERY WELCOME! THANKS!!!


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## jimenato

I would make an appropriate comment but jojo would delete it.


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## Skyewalter

Hi everyone,
First, thank you so much for all of the feedback! We did have a healthy baby boy back in August, and he's now 4 months old. 

As to the circumcision issue, we were NOT able to have him circumcised by anyone - I wrote to an Orthodox Jewish synagogue and the rabbi informed me that most of his new parents take their babies down to Madrid or Valencia to have it done, that they didn't have a mohel at his synagogue. 

The hospital flatly refused to do it (Juan Canalejo) and told us to ask our pediatrician. The pediatrician (whom we had asked for advice before) actually wrote an email to the head of pediatric surgery for his advice and he responded, saying that it would have to be done under general anesthesia and not anytime soon. So....the little guy is intact for now, and if we want to have it done we may try it the next time we go back to the US. There was no way I was going to put him under general anethesia at so young an age. And the next time we do visit the US, we may decide against traumatizing him in that way, as he'll then be at least two years old and being in pain down there will definitely make him a fussy toddler.

Again, thanks, everyone!


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## thrax

Anyone here agree with female circumcision?? Probably not, and personally I don't see any difference. In my opinion it's barbaric unless there is a justifiable medical reason for it - let the kid decide for himself when he's old enough. Which century do we live in??? I know this comment may upset some people and others will agree with me (but I do get upset with this kind of dated ritual) but I just don't get why in this day and age people still think it's necessary. I apologise if this comment does upset people's beliefs but then I am also entitled to mine. I could never conceive of mutilating my little boy in this way; but if, later in life, he chose this course, I would support him because it was his decision, not mine.


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## Alcalaina

thrax said:


> Anyone here agree with female circumcision?? Probably not, and personally I don't see any difference. In my opinion it's barbaric unless there is a justifiable medical reason for it - let the kid decide for himself when he's old enough. Which century do we live in??? I know this comment may upset some people and others will agree with me (but I do get upset with this kind of dated ritual) but I just don't get why in this day and age people still think it's necessary. I apologise if this comment does upset people's beliefs but then I am also entitled to mine. I could never conceive of mutilating my little boy in this way; but if, later in life, he chose this course, I would support him because it was his decision, not mine.


Well said, Thrax.


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## gerrit

Seconded. Unless he wants it done himself at a later age, there is no need for it. Statistics show that a lot of children are in extreme pain during the ritual in Judaism (7th day after birth) and those who don't cry are usually in a state of shock. It is barbaric indeed IMO. And yes I know female circumcision is much more drastic in terms of consequence. But this isn't about which ritual is less or more barbaric. Both are totally uncalled for when it comes to a baby boy who cannot decide for himself.


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## Guest

Malone said:


> Hi, Firstly congratulations on your new (well a three month old) boy!!:clap2:We're going to have a boy soon and are in the same situation, did you have any luck finding out where to have this done? I mean we have been searching for ages and all we could find is doctors that wanted to use a general anasthetic and do it after at least a year...... have you had any luck? Any ideas would be VERY WELCOME! THANKS!!!



yes, first congrats to your new, little boy!  Skyewalter

then, for me, it is not clear in the thread why you want to do this in such a hurry and with no anasthetics, or no traditional anasthetics as Malone says? The thread indicates no religious or other reasons.... What is the difference between "general" anasthetics and... what?

In my opinion circumsion of boys is allright. My father, just 1/4 jew, got it done a s a kid and said it was a blessing, all his life, better hygiene, better sex. So, I got it too, when like 2 years old, for these reasons.

This should not be a problem at all in Spain provided it is a normal, small thing surgery, which it is, to do. But if there is some religious mumbo jumbo or other weird reasons, you might have trouble. Spain is a modern country, do not expect anything else.

I may have misunderstood the whole thing, but some of what you say seems weird, the hurry and the anasthetics, please expain.

Jimenato / rephrase and post, take it easy, companero.


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## Guest

ummm, several postings coming in while I wrote my last... 

First, Skyewalter, I understand that you are Jewish and want this done as it should be, but having trouble doing it locally in Spain. I did not know that it was like this today, I thought it was different. Spain have a quite long tradition of treating jewish people bad, although jews along with arabs made this country one of Europe's greatests, until they were kicked out or executed...

Sorry also for my ignorance, ofc I understand the difference between general anesthesia and partial after just google/wiki the words. Excuse me, but my English is not so good. General anesthesia may be risky, I understand you concern, partial is ofc completely ok if done right. I can not belive that this can not be done in Spain. What for? Catholics so strong? Please explain, fellow forumers who know better.

Again, the operation itself does only good to most boys, and men. Most kids have to do similar things, teeth, whatever, or worse. This is simply a good thing what matters hygiene and later in life better sex, not for all, but for many, not bad imo. Maybe if we wait a million years evolution may have fixed it? (Ouch, now I feel some postings hitting my back, lol). I personally can not object. This without having any traditional or religoius aspect on the matter.

then, Thrax / female circumcision have nothing to do with this, it is pure barbary and should be banned everywhere.

Gerrit / I do not see this as something you must choose yourself, at an old and wise stage of life, it's a silly little thing that leaves a boy better afterwards.


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## jojo

As far as I'm aware circumcision in the Jewish community is part of their religion, I believe it has to be done without anaesthetic and within days of birth so as not to cause trauma - lets face it, circumcision is fairly insignificant after the trauma of being given birth to (a pretty horrendous start to independent life if you think about it??)

Spain is essentially a catholic country so therefore doesnt inherently recognise this procedure, altho I would have thought in this day and age.......????.

As for the rights and wrongs? Well we're all entitled to our religions, thoughts and views, but its not our place to criticise IMO! Besides alot of boys/men have this procedure carried out for a host of reasons. Ok, they may get anaesthetic and paracetamol afterwards, but nonetheless the older its done the more uncomfortable it is, especially when they know its going to happen!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not going to comment on female circumcision, but I will say that it cannot be likened to male circumcision - the use of the word is where the similarity ends!

There, diplomacy!!...Oh and congratulations on your little lad Skyewalter

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

The question was plain and simple

*Has anyone circumcised their baby boy in Spain? *

It wasn't "Feel free to comment on whys and wherefores of circumcision and to criticise this action"

:focus:


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## gus-lopez

Pesky Wesky said:


> The question was plain and simple
> 
> *Has anyone circumcised their baby boy in Spain? *
> 
> It wasn't "Feel free to comment on whys and wherefores of circumcision and to criticise this action"
> 
> :focus:


:lol: Bit of thread drift.


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## Alcalaina

VidaTombola said:


> In my opinion circumsion of boys is allright. My father, just 1/4 jew, got it done a s a kid and said it was a blessing, all his life, better hygiene, better sex. So, I got it too, when like 2 years old, for these reasons.


Wow, you were a very forward-thinking 2-year-old!


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## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> Wow, you were a very forward-thinking 2-year-old!


Did you decide to have it with or without anaesthetic?


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## Guest

Alcalaina said:


> Wow, you were a very forward-thinking 2-year-old!


I am very sorry for my poor English. Of course I meant that my parents had it done to me. Besides my views I also mess up the language often as being not from GB, I am very sorry, pardon, sumimasen.

And, no, I have not had any kids circumcised in Spain, so I will shut up, very sorry again.


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## xicoalc

jimenato said:


> Did you decide to have it with or without anaesthetic?


without aneasthetic? do they really still do this? They banned dog tail docking in the UK because they consider it barbaric...obviously I respect religous views but i dont really grasp this one... i like my foreskin... we have become good friends .. i would hate for anyone to have deprived me of this lifelong meaningful relationship without good medical reason to do so!

Oh my god... i just wrote on a public forum that i like my foreskin... i really should get out more!

Without trying to sound narrow mminded... purely our of curiosity from an uneducated point of view... Can anyone explain what the actual reason is (religiously) for slicing off the bodies natural protection of one of the most sensitive areas of the male anatomy?


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## gerrit

jojo said:


> As far as I'm aware circumcision in the Jewish community is part of their religion, I believe it has to be done without anaesthetic and within days of birth so as not to cause trauma - lets face it, circumcision is fairly insignificant after the trauma of being given birth to (a pretty horrendous start to independent life if you think about it??)
> 
> Spain is essentially a catholic country so therefore doesnt inherently recognise this procedure, altho I would have thought in this day and age.......????.
> 
> As for the rights and wrongs? Well we're all entitled to our religions, thoughts and views, but its not our place to criticise IMO! Besides alot of boys/men have this procedure carried out for a host of reasons. Ok, they may get anaesthetic and paracetamol afterwards, but nonetheless the older its done the more uncomfortable it is, especially when they know its going to happen!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not going to comment on female circumcision, but I will say that it cannot be likened to male circumcision - the use of the word is where the similarity ends!
> 
> There, diplomacy!!...Oh and congratulations on your little lad Skyewalter
> 
> Jo xxx



Jo, you are right about the Jewish tradition. In Judaism, girls are born convenanted. Boys enter the convenant through the ritual of circumcision. This has to be carried out the 7th day after birth without aneasthetics. The father has the duty to do it (the "mitzva" or duty of cutting). In practise, because most men feel unsettled with the idea of doing it themselves, most let a mohel (ritual circumciser, which may or may not be a rabbi) do it. The ritual is called brit mitzva which literally translates as "the duty of the cutting", although some Jews call is bris mitzvah, depending on where exactly they grew up and which dialect of Hebrew they grew up with. Also, upon request of the parents, the mohel may use some painkilling spray. The foreskin afterwards is buried as they consider it a piece of the perfect creation of god (then if this was the perfect creation, why alter it? But I guess religions per definition make no rational sense)


Now here is the bad part: extensive researched showed most children are under immense pain. Those thinking that when they don't cry they don't feel pain, are wrong: these kids are in a state of shock. It is very barbaric to do this without anesthetics, as it is also done in the US for some reason even when there is no religion connection. 

This has lead to an anti-circumcision movement within Judaism. While the vast majority of Jews still circumcise their sons, a small movement called "Jews against circumcision" (google for their website!) is gradually growing. It is still a minority who don't circumcise their sons, but the minority is growing. Most of them are reform Jews or liberal Jews, where rabbi's do not consider circumcision to be obligatory but optional. The number of Jews refusing circumcision on their sons is a minority, but it is growing in numbers. Interestingly, Theodore Herzl, the person who launched the idea of a Jewish nation state, refused to circumcise his son.



As for better sex? Now I cannot comment on that but someone who was circumcised as a baby boy cannot comment neither. Only those who had sex prior and after the surgery (I would not call it an operation) can compare. And allow me to say that those few minutes of extra sex are not exactly worth it IMO. The consequences of female circumcision are more drastic but the two have more in common than just the word: it is forcing something upon a baby who is not old enough to decide for himself. As it is proven circumcision upon babies is NOT painless, there is IMO no reason to not wait until the boy is old enough to decide for himself.



PS: Judaism is the only religion where this ritual is in theory demanded, even though more and more Jews refrain from doing it. In Islam it is considered recommended and some islamic scholars consider it obligatory (whereas female circumcision is by these people often considered advisable but not obligatory). The truth is however that it is only recommended by those scholars but NOT obligatory. The obligation to be circumcised is nowhere in the Quran and is not amongst the pillars of faith in Islam. I am not a specialist in Christianity but as far as I know only a minority of Christian sects have the ritual. 



Summarised: let the guy decide for himself if he wants it. IMO it is not exactly right to enforce such things on a person unable to indicate weither he wants it or not.


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## gerrit

steve_in_spain said:


> Without trying to sound narrow mminded... purely our of curiosity from an uneducated point of view... Can anyone explain what the actual reason is (religiously) for slicing off the bodies natural protection of one of the most sensitive areas of the male anatomy?


In Judaism it is considered as the rite to enter the convenant. I am not exactly sure but I do recall a Jew explaining me that bleeding is considered purifying. This is why an already circumcised convert still has a prick in the penis done to draw a drip of blood as ritual to enter the convenant when converting to Judaism. Why they can't simply prick in the finger and draw one drip of blood is beyond my understanding, but religions often make not much sense  

In Islam there is no obligation but some scholars recommend it. However, not obliged. It is more tradition than obligation. A friend of mine converted to Islam and refused circumcision, which was no issue at all. That said, the Prophet Ibrahim did circumcise himself at age 80  with an axe  according to some books. He must have had very precise and controlled hand movements to do that with an axe at age 80!

In fact the ritual is more about hygienics but obviously the propaganda machine makes up some other reasons to make it more suitable in the religious context. Remember when the whole ritual was first carried out people were living in the desert with often no access to clean water to bathe in for weeks. As we nowadays have showers and baths, the ritual is no longer needed, we don't live in deserts with no clean water anymore...

And sure, you should like your foreskin, it contains the nerve endings and thus the most sensible parts of your little fella  In the US there are self-aid groups for circumcised men who have become depressed about it, some having undergone foreskin restorage surgery.


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## xicoalc

gerrit said:


> Summarised: let the guy decide for himself if he wants it. IMO it is not exactly right to enforce such things on a person unable to indicate weither he wants it or not.


agree! :clap2:


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## Sonrisa

rjnpenang said:


> I saw it done a few years ago at a synagogue in Marbella, performed by the Rabbi (I think). Regards Rob


Well that's barbaric and if this is still happening, you should have reported that to the authorities, as I am sure this practice is only legal under medical supervision in a hospital or medical center for obvious reasons


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## Alcalaina

VidaTombola said:


> I am very sorry for my poor English. Of course I meant that my parents had it done to me. Besides my views I also mess up the language often as being not from GB, I am very sorry, pardon, sumimasen.
> 
> And, no, I have not had any kids circumcised in Spain, so I will shut up, very sorry again.


Don´t worry, it is me that should apologise, going for cheap laughs ...

Your English is better than that of a lot of British native speakers, IMO!


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## jojo

I'm closing this thread, altho it may be interesting, the original poster didnt ask what our views were on the subject and its not really to do with Spain

Jo xxxx


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