# Cost of Living in Le Marche



## Squirrel14#

I'm continuing on with my past thread of moving to Italy. We both (my boyfriend and I) have wanted to move to Europe for quite some time. I am hearing that $40,000-50,000 US dollars should be enough for a modest lifestyle in Le Marche. At this time, this is our plan, work for a few more years to build up a little capital and learn Italian and then find an apartment to rent for $325 Euros with about 80-92 square meters. It does not have to be luxurious, but we are used to a modern apartment which may be considered luxury in Le Marche. We would have a modest lifestyle which would include going to the driving range a few times a week and maybe playing a golf game twice a month. I think we would want to see a lot of Netflix movies and go out to eat twice a month with friends. We do not need a new car, in fact, we will probably go from 2 to 1. Other than that, I think we would be happy just spending a lot of time in nature, mountain hiking, etc. Is this realistic? Thanks!lane:


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## accbgb

It is not so much a question of what you consider "should be enough for a modest lifestyle" but what your consulate sets as a minimum. To make matters worse, unless you and your boyfriend marry, you will have to file separate and independent requests for long-term ("Elective Residence") visas with each of you having to prove sufficient income from pensions, social security, and other sources plus assets to guarantee annual income of... how much? no one can say with certainty but the number that is typically kicked around is $35,000+ _per person._


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## Squirrel14#

Wow, that is certainly helpful. I was thinking we probably would have to either marry or file separate "elective residence" visas. Thanks for your valuable input!


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## BBCWatcher

Alternatively, one of you has EU status (e.g. Italian citizenship recognition) and the other applies for a separate, independent Elective Residency visa with its (reportedly) minimum 3,000 euro per month passive income requirement, triple underscore minimum.

Or, as yet another alternative, the EU status individual (e.g. the one with Italian citizenship) legitimately requires care -- an individual with a physical or mental disability, for example -- and the friend applies for a visa as the home caregiver for that citizen. That's in very special circumstances.

Or, as still yet another alternative, one person applies for an Elective Residency visa, and the other applies for a student visa to pursue a full-time degree program at an Italian university.

Anyway, you get the idea. Without marriage and/or without an EU citizenship it's more awkward.


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## Squirrel14#

Thanks so much for your valuable input. It's good to know all the alternatives. At this time, it looks like I would need to do elective residency. It does not look to me that I could gain Italian Citizenship, I found out from my father that my grandfather was 19 when he immigrated here and probably renounced his Italian Citizenship he doesn't know for certain, maybe it is worth looking into further, just in case he didn't? My boyfriend, at the present time, would need to apply for a Work Visa unless he wanted to attend an Italian University.


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## BBCWatcher

Squirrel14# said:


> ....I found out from my father that my grandfather was 19 when he immigrated here and probably renounced his Italian Citizenship he doesn't know for certain, maybe it is worth looking into further, just in case he didn't?


Of course it is because you don't have enough information yet.

First of all, it's extremely unlikely your grandfather renounced his Italian citizenship. Under Italian citizenship law the only way to renounce your citizenship is to do in the presence of an Italian government official with a sworn, voluntarily statement competently executed. "Competent," for example, means that 19 year olds were generally incapable of renouncing their own citizenships while Italy's age of majority was 21. (It was 21 until sometime in 1975.)

If your grandfather voluntarily and competently acquired another country's citizenship (i.e. naturalized) before August 15, 1992, he probably lost his Italian citizenship at that moment in time. But that's not renunciation, and it's not necessarily a problem even if it did occur. (In fact it's actually a plus from a documentary point of view.) Note that it's acquisition of citizenship, not mere petitioning for citizenship, and not signing a statement criticizing Italy or its leaders.

So...find out what the real facts are, and don't assume anything until you have solid documentary evidence in front of you. Did your grandfather actually acquire a foreign citizenship, and when precisely did that occur? Was it before or after he married your grandmother, for example? (Was it before his 21st birthday?) What was/is your grandmother's citizenship? (Did you know that women who did not have Italian citizenship who married Italian citizen-husbands prior to April 27, 1983, automatically and immediately acquired Italian citizenship?)


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## Squirrel14#

This is all very interesting information and gives me a lot of hope. I believe he got married twice because his first wife passed away. The 2nd wife was an American, so it sounds like she acquired dual citizenship when she got married - they got married in the 40's. I need to find a good Geneology site and possibly take a trip to Caltabellotta, Sicily at some point. Do you know if Genealogy, Family Trees & Family History Records at Ancestry.com is a good site or should I ask the moderator for some tips? Thanks so much!!


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## BBCWatcher

Much will hinge on when/if your grandfather acquired U.S. citizenship, so focus on discovering the answer to that important question. Yes, Ancestry.com has a lot of information that might help including a decent index, so you can start there if you have access. Some public libraries have Ancestry.com subscriptions. You can also try FamilySearch.org which is free.

Remember, a well-timed naturalization is actually a good thing. Proving a negative takes more work.


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## Squirrel14#

I went to the Ellis Island and took out an ancestry.com subscription as it looks like an excellent resource to find out when my father became a citizen or did not, I cannot imagine that he didn't, I have details from Ellis Island of when and how he came over and some other sketchy details, I believe it will all piece together eventually. Thanks for your support.


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## accbgb

Let's clarify:

I presume that your father was born in the US. If that is correct, then your father is automatically a US citizen.

The question is, what was your grandfather's citizenship status at the time of your father's birth? If your grandfather was still an Italian citizen (for the most part, that means "if your grandfather had not yet become a naturalized US citizen") at the time of your father's birth, then you are 90% of the way to be able to claim Italian citizenship jure sanguinis (by blood-right).

So, this is what you need to find out: did your grandfather ever become a naturalized US citizen and, if so, exactly *when* did that happen.

Occasionally there may be a separate route through the female line, but you should look to your grandfather first.


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## Squirrel14#

Yes, my father was born in the U.S. I suspect that my grandfather become an American Citizen very soon after he came here. My father says it was very easy to become an American Citizen in those days (1906), BUT of course I will need to do some research to find out the facts. Records are quite sketchy on the National Archives website, but they do have a nice large list of Genealogists. Thanks so much for your information!


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## accbgb

USCIS is the official source for records for any naturalization which took place after September 26, 1906. You can go to Searching the Index | USCIS and order an index search for a fee of $20.00. If the index search is fruitful you then submit an actual records request for a similar fee.

The National Archives is another source for naturalization records however their collection is less complete; in most areas, they hold copies for naturalizations which took place only in federal courts, not state or local courts. Nevertheless, their response/search time is generally much faster than USCIS' and the cost is lower with the further advantage that there is no charge at all if they do not find the requested record. Go to https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/start.swe?SWECmd=Start&SWEHo=eservices.archives.gov and create an account (right side of screen), then login in and click the "Order Reproductions" button, then Immigration and Naturalization Records, then Naturalization Records.

Whichever source you settle on (USCIS or National Archives) be sure to order certified copies.


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## Squirrel14#

Thanks for the advice on going to USCIS or National Archives. Saved me potentially quite a bit of dollars! I chose USCIS. I suspect it will be a while before I hear from them, good to get it underway. Thanks again.


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## BBCWatcher

Just a bit of a caution here. If your father was born then your grandfather naturalized, but the naturalization occurred before July 1, 1912, then that's not too helpful. On July 1, 1912, a then new Italian citizenship law came into effect, and that law's Article 7 provided some additional protection to previously born Italian children when their fathers naturalized.

Anyway, the very best outcome would be that you discover that your grandfather indeed naturalized, but he did so after your father was born. And also that your grandfather naturalized after June, 1912. That'd be fantastic. But don't guess -- find out what the records show. It's very unlikely he naturalized as a 19 year old fresh off the boat in 1906, so I wouldn't put much stock in that family story. Many, many immigrants petitioned for naturalization and never completed the process, assuming they were done.

If your grandfather was alive in 1940 and had not naturalized then you should be able to find his alien registration card. And that'd be wonderful, too.

Let us know what you find.

On edit: I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but if you qualify for Italian citizenship recognition then so do your children, grandchildren, etc. in all likelihood.


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## Squirrel14#

Thanks so much, BBC Watcher. I'll post when I get a reply, hopefully soon.


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## accbgb

Squirrel14# said:


> Thanks for the advice on going to USCIS or National Archives. Saved me potentially quite a bit of dollars! I chose USCIS. I suspect it will be a while before I hear from them, good to get it underway. Thanks again.


When I began my own research in 2006/2007, USCIS routinely took 2 to 3 years to fulfill Freedom of Information Act requests for naturalization-related documents. Under the current system, index searches typically take on the order of 6 to 8 weeks and then a similar time span for record requests.


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## Squirrel14#

Wow, such a big difference, they must have been really backlogged. 16 weeks doesn't seem like too big a wait considering my boyfriend and I will need to visit Le Marche, learn the language, etc. Thanks for the information! This is a really great forum!


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## cpa21

If your grandfather arrived in NY in 1906 the search of naturalization records can be very easy. Virtually all the naturalization filings have been indexed and posted online at a variety of sites.

I am glad that there is a rule against posting URL's to such sites as Italian Genealogical group and The Jewish Genealogical Society Brooklyn Naturalizations. Just do some searching and you can get a good idea of your prospects in the recognition process before you get up from the computer.


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## Squirrel14#

I didn't know, that is very interesting. I will do my own research on this as well. Thanks cpa21, I really appreciate it!


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