# Tonight on BBC 4, 10pm our time



## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Blood & Gold is a new series charting the history of Spain and looks (from what I have read) to be quite interesting.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

My mum just rang me to tell me about this! It looks good, I'll see if I can get FilmOn working.

BBC Four - Blood and Gold: The Making of Spain with Simon Sebag Montefiore, Conquest


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Review in The Times makes you want to avoid. A quote: "history is important, it should never be this dull".


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Review in The Times makes you want to avoid. A quote: "history is important, it should never be this dull".


I saw it, interrupted Man U Champions League game for it,it passed the time (which would have passed anyway).......and 
I wished for Mary Beard or my fave, the other Simon, Schama.
Some pretty pictures and a lot of information but yes, dull.
I'll stick with it though as in spite of being a tad turgid it had interesting moments....I had to wonder about the logistics of keeping 6000 concubines, very high maintenance too, no doubt.
Small,pedantic point...surely Simon S- M could have pronounced Cadiz correctly...
I'll get the book when the Beeb publish it...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We watched it. SD FilmOn works pretty well on our TV with the Android box, though we missed Real Madrid putting eight goals past Malmo.

It was interesting to see Italica (the Roman city north of Seville) and the al-Zahra palace near Cordoba, both of which have been on our places-to-visit list for ages. I didn't know Hannibal and his elephants set off from Cádiz! That was quite a trek.

The presenter was truly awful, I agree. Simon Schama would have been much better. I love Mary Beard though she can get a bit over-enthusiastic. Straight afterwards there was a very watchable programme about Warsaw presented by Dan Cruickshank - he would have done a good job.

I can understand why he used the English pronunciation of place names. When speaking English to English people I say CaDIZ and Seville, not CÁDiz or Shebija. After all, you wouldn't expect a Spanish presenter on a Spanish TV programme to say London instead of Londres.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Yes - programme was dull. 

On the pronunciation point - I'm a stickler for keeping English and Spanish pronunciation distinct. In English, it's definitely caDIZ vs Spanish CADith. Just like the island of caPREE rather than CAPree in Italian. And don't get me started on baLENthya and sebEEYA. I guess I need to chill out - but to me it's just pretentious - and incorrect, to use Spanish pronunciation when speaking English - especially for historic, significant cities which have normalised English names. 

Just imagine saying 'I love Paree for shopping and Roma for eating. Lisboa is a bit cheap.'


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> We watched it. SD FilmOn works pretty well on our TV with the Android box, though we missed Real Madrid putting eight goals past Malmo.
> 
> It was interesting to see Italica (the Roman city north of Seville) and the al-Zahra palace near Cordoba, both of which have been on our places-to-visit list for ages. I didn't know Hannibal and his elephants set off from Cádiz! That was quite a trek.
> 
> ...


Fair point . I would have liked to have seen that programme on Warsaw....was it historical or focusing on present day? I switched to Newsnight only to hear about bullying Tories and Donald Trump.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

samthemainman said:


> Yes - programme was dull.
> 
> On the pronunciation point - I'm a stickler for keeping English and Spanish pronunciation distinct. In English, it's definitely caDIZ vs Spanish CADith. Just like the island of caPREE rather than CAPree in Italian. And don't get me started on baLENthya and sebEEYA. I guess I need to chill out - but to me it's just pretentious - and incorrect, to use Spanish pronunciation when speaking English - especially for historic, significant cities which have normalised English names.
> 
> Just imagine saying 'I love Paree for shopping and Roma for eating. Lisboa is a bit cheap.'


As I said to Alca, fair point. But when I think about it, whilst I wouldn't say Paree or Lisboa or Koln to an English person I do find myself saying CAdiz and Sebeeya....habit I guess. Not sure I'd say these names the same way if I were in the UK not Spain...next time I go I'll watch out for myself.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Fair point . I would have liked to have seen that programme on Warsaw....was it historical or focusing on present day? I switched to Newsnight only to hear about bullying Tories and Donald Trump.


It was historical, mainly about the rebuilding of the old town. I went there on a student field trip in 1977 so it had a special fascination for me. Cruickshank lived in Warsaw as a child because his father was a reporter for the Daily Worker. It's still on iPlayer.

BBC Four - Dan Cruickshank: Resurrecting History: Warsaw


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> It was historical, mainly about the rebuilding of the old town. I went there on a student field trip in 1977 so it had a special fascination for me. Cruickshank lived in Warsaw as a child because his father was a reporter for the Daily Worker. It's still on iPlayer.
> 
> BBC Four - Dan Cruickshank: Resurrecting History: Warsaw


Thanks, I'm going to watch. I spent a lot of time in Warsaw in 1969/70, I was based in Krakow. A very sad and miserable time, shortages of everything, constant rumours of strikes and unrest all over the country. The beginning of the anti-Semitic campaign against Party members in Government like Moczar who had fallen out of favour...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

******!!!! Won't let me watch, says 'UK only'.
Youtube maybe?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> ******!!!! Won't let me watch, says 'UK only'.
> Youtube maybe?


Yes, you have to have a VPN to watch iPlayer outside the UK (we don't). Can't find it on YouTube.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, you have to have a VPN to watch iPlayer outside the UK (we don't). Can't find it on YouTube.


EDIT: There are several torrents for it on KAT, if you're into downloads.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Try using viewtelly - Watch UK Television (TV) Online Anywhere - Any-time FREE. You don't need vpn for that.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> My mum just rang me to tell me about this! It looks good, I'll see if I can get FilmOn working.
> 
> BBC Four - Blood and Gold: The Making of Spain with Simon Sebag Montefiore, Conquest


*As far as Spanish Gold is concerned:*

The Spanish Government is still exercising her rights to the contents of any wrecked Spanish galleon or warship that
belonged to the Spanish state and sank while performing her duties of transporting gold and other treasures
from the Americas to Spain.

Spain asserts her rights over $1 billion dollar Spanish Galleon found off Columbia


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## GallineraGirl (Aug 13, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, you have to have a VPN to watch iPlayer outside the UK (we don't). Can't find it on YouTube.


There are several programmes on You Tube about Spanish History that are much better than this one. It was very dull.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

thrax said:


> Try using viewtelly - Watch UK Television (TV) Online Anywhere - Any-time FREE. You don't need vpn for that.


But this is just FilmOn with a wrapper. It won't let you watch something that was aired a few days ago. In fact it says at the top of the screen "Catch-up - VPN required".


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

The programme on Spain was scholastically informative and well presented and wasn't hyped up or dumbed down in an attempt to catch the interest of the lowest common denominator as one finds with many history programmes on BBC 1/2 and ITV.

It filled in some gaps in my knowledge of early Spanish history which I studied as part of my languages degree and I am eagerly looking forward to parts two and three.

By the way you can catch up with Filmon but only for up to twenty four hours after the broadcast of any particular programme.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Campesina said:


> The programme on Spain was scholastically informative and well presented and wasn't hyped up or dumbed down in an attempt to catch the interest of the lowest common denominator as one finds with many history programmes on BBC 1/2 and ITV.
> 
> It filled in some gaps in my knowledge of early Spanish history which I studied as part of my languages degree and I am eagerly looking forward to parts two and three.
> 
> By the way you can catch up with Filmon but only for up to twenty four hours after the broadcast of any particular programme.


It's possible to present a programme in a way that is both educational, informative and catches the interest of the general public, though, isn't it.....
Do you think Mary Beard and Simon Schama 'dumb down ' to appeal to the 'lowest common denominator'? I think they present in a way which attracts the non- academic viewer and which may well, if interesting enough, lead him/her to further, deeper study.
If anyone is interested, there is an excellent book by our local author Michael Barry on the Kingdoms of Al- Andalus...


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2015)

I thought the programme was terrific, packed with interesting facts and the presenter didn't over-emote, flap his arms around and generally ensure focus was on himself rather than on the subject matter. I actually liked his restrained performance and find some of the other presenters of popular history almost unwatchable. One of the better programmes on history, IMHO, but each to their own…...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

meetloaf said:


> I thought the programme was terrific, packed with interesting facts and the presenter didn't over-emote, flap his arms around and generally ensure focus was on himself rather than on the subject matter. I actually liked his restrained performance and find some of the other presenters of popular history almost unwatchable. One of the better programmes on history, IMHO, but each to their own…...


I agree. My husband and I, having read the previous comments, sat down to watch the programme which we'd recorded saying we could always switch off if it was as boring as it sounded, but in fact we both found it interesting and weren't put off in any way by the presenter.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I agree. My husband and I, having read the previous comments, sat down to watch the programme which we'd recorded saying we could always switch off if it was as boring as it sounded, but in fact we both found it interesting and weren't put off in any way by the presenter.


I didn't find it boring but I thought it was a tad dull. Two different ways of looking at something. You don't have to flap your arms about and get over-excited to present in a more, well, let's say 'lively' manner.
These programmes aren't Open University material although they are linked for those who want to learn more. They are intended for the general viewer who might find the subject more interesting than they might have expected. General viewer doesn't have to equal 'dumbing down'.
As I said, I found bits very interesting, photography was superb, as we've come to expect from these programmes and I'll be watching the next two episodes and buying the book which no doubt will be accompanying the series.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Campesina said:


> The programme on Spain was scholastically informative and well presented and wasn't hyped up or dumbed down in an attempt to catch the interest of the lowest common denominator as one finds with many history programmes on BBC 1/2 and ITV.
> 
> It filled in some gaps in my knowledge of early Spanish history which I studied as part of my languages degree and I am eagerly looking forward to parts two and three.
> 
> By the way you can catch up with Filmon but only for up to twenty four hours after the broadcast of any particular programme.


I agree it was informative and it filled some gaps in my knowledge too. But the presenter took up too much space. I would have preferred a narration than having to look at his rather unappealing facial expressions half the time. But they don't make documentaries like that any more ....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I agree it was informative and it filled some gaps in my knowledge too. But the presenter took up too much space. I would have preferred a narration than having to look at his rather unappealing facial expressions half the time. But they don't make documentaries like that any more ....


Yes, I think I would prefer a simple narration....Do you remember that excellent 'The World at War'? And the one about the Great War. Not sure but didn't Laurence Olivier narrate one of them?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I think I would prefer a simple narration....Do you remember that excellent 'The World at War'? And the one about the Great War. Not sure but didn't Laurence Olivier narrate one of them?


Another vote for a narration from me. Wildlife programmes are usually made that way and are all the better for it.

I "enjoyed" (if that's the right word) 'The World at War' although the episode about the concentration camps was absolutely harrowing, but what else could it be? Another series which has stuck in my mind although I saw it years ago was 'Eyes on the Prize' about the American Civil Rights movement.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

If you want to watch a dumb downed program watch The Sky at Night !


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2015)

..and another vote for narration for me. I have never understood why a presenter was necessary . Yes, for programmes like Time Team, where the presenter plays the role of the viewer and asks relevant questions, but as to the "this is a castle and this is another castle and this is me in front of a castle" approach (excuse my cynicism) - no thanks. And RIP Sky At Night - decades of devoted watching have come to an end. Someone, somewhere must watch it but I suspect not too many of the previous devotees.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Repeated tonight (Sundays) at 7p.m. BBC4

next instalment Tuesday.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This reviewer from The Observer seems to be on the same page re the presentation:



> ... Simon Sebag Montefiore stared into the camera in slightly unnerving close-up and a big straw hat and identified in no uncertain terms the ingredients of nation building. “Vim! Vigour! Power! Virility!” he offered, with the kind of plosive delivery that made you feel a sudden pang even for the wild mummery of Simon Schama. Someone seems to have told BBC history presenters they must militantly colonise attention from the title sequence and subsequently rule it with a rod of iron. In the first 15 minutes of Sebag’s journey through the genesis of Spain his every utterance was accompanied by a cymbal crash or drum roll or snatch of manic flamenco as he route-marched us in the elephant steps of Hannibal, speedboated across the straits of Gibraltar and offered a dizzying shorthand of the mythical castrations and serial beheadings and land grabs and “fortunes made in fish paste” that led eventually to the Islamic invasion of al-Andalus in 711AD.


I shall watch the rest of the series though.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

olivefarmer said:


> Repeated tonight (Sundays) at 7p.m. BBC4
> 
> next instalment Tuesday.


uk time or Spanish time?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

7pm UK time


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

7pm uk time 8p.m. spanish.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Despite switching on late and constant interruptions I enjoyed it. It was full of bits and pieces I had no idea about. The presenter did get on my nerves a bit though, poor man, as did the music.
I'd like them to put up the names of the people/ places they're talking about because as I can't speak Arabic I found it difficult to catch the names no matter how many times he said them. 
Will be watching the next one!


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## wk44 (Feb 22, 2013)

Hey

Great so many people noticed this program

Was a great show


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

GallineraGirl said:


> There are several programmes on You Tube about Spanish History that are much better than this one. It was very dull.


I don't know all these moans and groans about the Presenter or the music, whereas
I found it quite good, well researched and interesting, with lots of 'I didn't know that about
Spanish history' but there again you cannot please all people, all of the time but
there again - as British Expats well know, Nobody expects, The Spanish Inquisition !!


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