# Minimum wage



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

An interesting statistic - comparative monthy minimum wages in Europe:

SALARIO MÍNIMO INTERPROFESIONAL EN EUROPA:

Luxemburgo:. . . . . 1.750 €
Irlanda: . . . . . . 1.653 €
Bélgica: . . . . . . 1.389 €
Holanda: . . . . . . 1.385 €
Francia: . . . . . . 1.350 €
Reino Unido: . . . . 1.005 €
España:. . . . . . . 624 €

Does this imply the cost of living is much lower in Spain?


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

It's really low! I had no idea it was that bad. BUt how to tackle this problem, if you increase minimum salaries, maybe more people will be joining the 5 million unemployed. 
On a positive side, Ireland sounds great. I'm hopeful now that the kids are starting school, and I can look for work there. My husband is currently working in Dublin, albeit, on his egyptian contract - US dollars salary 

love your new look...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> It's really low! I had no idea it was that bad. BUt how to tackle this problem, if you increase minimum salaries, maybe more people will be joining the 5 million unemployed.
> On a positive side, Ireland sounds great. I'm hopeful now that the kids are starting school, and I can look for work there. My husband is currently working in Dublin, albeit, on his egyptian contract - US dollars salary
> 
> love your new look...


Dublin is a fantastic city but REALLY expensive - I reckon it's worse than London. Is your husband enjoying it there?

Wages are very low in Spain generally, so I guess it's not surprising the minimum is so little. Mass unemployment always drives wages down further of course. Traditionally this would have encouraged overseas investors, but these days it is more profitable for them to buy and sell debt and currencies, and speculate on commodities, than to invest in industry.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

When I started my own business, in the early days I worked for nothing and later for far less than the so called minimum wage. 

Gradually the business expanded and I earned more than minimum wage. Later I needed to employ staff, but I would then have had to invest in more equipment and pay the new staff at least the minimum wage. It was a dilemma, so I took drastic measures, I increased my prices, lost a few customers, this negated the need for more staff or new additional equipment and my turnover increased, the remaining customers paying extra for my services.

I often wonder which road I would have chosen had there been no minimum wage


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hepa said:


> When I started my own business, in the early days I worked for nothing and later for far less than the so called minimum wage.
> 
> Gradually the business expanded and I earned more than minimum wage. Later I needed to employ staff, but I would then have had to invest in more equipment and pay the new staff at least the minimum wage. It was a dilemma, so I took drastic measures, I increased my prices, lost a few customers, this negated the need for more staff or new additional equipment and my turnover increased, the remaining customers paying extra for my services.
> 
> I often wonder which road I would have chosen had there been no minimum wage


Well, they do say if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

I expect a competitor would have come along, charged lower prices and pinched your customers, then paid higher wages and pinched your staff. That´s what the free market is all about.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> An interesting statistic - comparative monthy minimum wages in Europe:
> 
> SALARIO MÍNIMO INTERPROFESIONAL EN EUROPA:
> 
> ...


Living in Spain on UK state pension ... under 600€ per month. So we are below minimum wage????


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Well, they do say if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
> 
> I expect a competitor would have come along, charged lower prices and pinched your customers, then paid higher wages and pinched your staff. That´s what the free market is all about.


No just the contrary, there were so many customers I had to refuse new ones, my prices were lower than the few competitors I had. The services that I provided were specialised and second to none. I did not pay peanuts I did not pay anyone wages, so no monkeys. I ran the business for eleven years and made a tidy sum, now that is what the free market is all about, success.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

624 euros a month when broken down is a pittance to live on yet the politicians obviously believe it is sufficient, however, if one takes the average cost of rent instead of mortgage one would be lucky to have 200 euros a month to provide for oneself. 
I wonder if Zappatero would be able to do it.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Dublin is a fantastic city but REALLY expensive - I reckon it's worse than London. Is your husband enjoying it there?
> 
> .



Yes, he is enjoying it. we will visit him on the 21st and hopefully by then we will see if we have to stay or have to go elsewhere. .. Its complicated :juggle:

Expensive? I almost cried when booking my flight with aerlingus, costs me an arm and a leg to get there, my children pay adult fare, never mind that they weight just over 17kg, I still have to pay to fly their suitcases, and they are asking me to pay extra for their seats to ensure that they will sit with me, 10 euro each, it's utterly ridiculous, surely this people will have the common sense to put a 3 and a 5 years old with their parent, without having to pay an extra 30 euro for that?

If it is that expensive then It does make sense that wages are amongst the highest in Europe. I honestly dont' know how they would be able to fly anywhere otherwise. 

About Spain, some European firms choose Spain to open their factories, such as car makers, possibly attracted to the low labour costs? erhaps a case of pay peanuts and getting gorillas?


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## Pat Lleida (Jun 18, 2011)

To be fair, productivity is very bad here. Output is shockingly low, it's only the low wages that keeps it anyway competitive.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Pat Lleida said:


> To be fair, productivity is very bad here. Output is shockingly low, it's only the low wages that keeps it anyway competitive.


Really? I wouldn't have thought so? I was under the impression that productivity was high. Maybe the low pay is demotavating and taking its toll on the workers after all.


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## Pat Lleida (Jun 18, 2011)

We work long hours here, (I normally do 10-15 hours extra a week), but I think the problem is there are more small and medium businesses here and it doesn't pay them to invest in machinery when the "mano de obra" is so cheap.

Where wages are higher only big companies who have invested in efficient machinery survive, the little guy can't compete. There is always room for smaller companies in any economy but in a high wage economy they just get the scraps.


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## Pat Lleida (Jun 18, 2011)

Just had a quick look
http://www.cotizalia.com/publicador_perlas_kike/fotos/20110328100productividad1.jpg Not too bad!

I remember where I worked before near Barcelona, the boss put upon the notice board something similar but with Spain a lot lower down. 
The shop steward put up another which showed wages, Spain was even lower down


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## Pat Lleida (Jun 18, 2011)

But per hour worked, not as good.
http://www.cotizalia.com/publicador_perlas_kike/fotos/2011032860productividad2.jpg


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

DunWorkin said:


> Living in Spain on UK state pension ... under 600€ per month. So we are below minimum wage????


But you only get a minimum wage if you are working.

That´s pretty impressive if you can live on that. Do share your tips!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pat Lleida said:


> We work long hours here, (I normally do 10-15 hours extra a week), but I think the problem is there are more small and medium businesses here and it doesn't pay them to invest in machinery when the "mano de obra" is so cheap.
> 
> Where wages are higher only big companies who have invested in efficient machinery survive, the little guy can't compete. There is always room for smaller companies in any economy but in a high wage economy they just get the scraps.


In general think the Spanish still work long hours compared to others in Europe. Are you working in an office or bar work type of thing Pat?
In one company I go to they rarely do overtime and usually work 9:00- 5:00, 8:00 - 4:00 now in the summer if they want.
In another they continually work overtime and instead of 9:00 - 6:00 work 8:00 to 8:00 or more with meetings and negotiations often going on to 10:00 or 11:00.

I think there are still a lot of little guy companies here, but they'll probably get systematically squeezed out over the next decade or so, especially if the government doesn't do anything to help the self employed. We should be a protected species.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> But you only get a minimum wage if you are working.
> 
> That´s pretty impressive if you can live on that. Do share your tips!


My point was that if €624 is considered to be the minimum a person needs to live on in Spain, how do they expect pensioners to survive on less than that.

No, we cannot live on that. We are having to use our savings to live on but, of course, they will not last forever. They are running out very fast.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

DunWorkin said:


> My point was that if €624 is considered to be the minimum a person needs to live on in Spain, how do they expect pensioners to survive on less than that.
> 
> No, we cannot live on that. We are having to use our savings to live on but, of course, they will not last forever. They are running out very fast.


But the Spanish old age pension is about the same - €635 I think. A quarter of the population where I live are pensioners. Not only do they manage to live on that, but many of them support their unemployed families too. Most of them own their own homes of course, and they do get some concessions like cheaper electricity, but there is nothing like the pension credit system they have in the UK. They have my undying respect!


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> But the Spanish old age pension is about the same - €635 I think. A quarter of the population where I live are pensioners. Not only do they manage to live on that, but many of them support their unemployed families too. Most of them own their own homes of course, and they do get some concessions like cheaper electricity, but there is nothing like the pension credit system they have in the UK. They have my undying respect!


Of course I do not know what it is like in the rest of Spain, but here in Catalunya the old age pensioners get quite a few concesssions, cheap travel, cheap meals, free medical assistance/medication. 
I have come to realise that the old people here are both very good at living within their means but that they often have means we do not know about. I do not know if they have mortgages, (I think not), they make a coffee last 2 hours when they go into the local bar and they all seem to have veg plots the excess being sold in the local 'agrobotiga'. I too admire them for their thriftiness and would love to know thier secret, however, the one a very nice gentleman told me of I cannot stomach. 'Frigola or Tomillo soup.' Niether can I eat the snails, but the wild asparagus is yummy.
I have tried to get them to show me which mushrooms are edible but for some reason they are reserving that little snippet of information for themselves.


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