# Spanish laws on residency



## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

I am a UK citizen living in the UK. Looking to buy a property in Spain (or France). My fiance is Ukrainian and still lives and works in Ukraine. Does anybody know when the new 160,000 euro residency ruling takes effect ? What are these new income rules that several threads mention ? Will my Ukrainian partner be able to obtain eu residency by moving to Spain ?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

macdog said:


> I am a UK citizen living in the UK. Looking to buy a property in Spain (or France). My fiance is Ukrainian and still lives and works in Ukraine. Does anybody know when the new 160,000 euro residency ruling takes effect ? What are these new income rules that several threads mention ? Will my Ukrainian partner be able to obtain eu residency by moving to Spain ?


since the initial announcement regarding the 'buy a property & get residency' rule, afaik there has been no mention at all

it was only an announcement that 'within a few weeks' this would happen & is aimed at non-EU citizens who can't 'easily' get residency in the way that EU citizens can

the new income rules are that as an EU citizen, in order to register as resident, you have to prove to the govt that you have healthcare provision & can support yourself financially

although this is a requirement of the Spanish govt., you will hear that if, as an EU citizen, you don't register, they can't kick you out - this is true - but without that green resident cert there is so much you can't do - & tbh the financial requirements really aren't so very high (a bank balance of something like 5000 € for a single person seems to be enough) - you don't have to buy property

for your fiancee, you would, I believe, need to prove that you have lived together for something like 2 years in order for her to get residency here as your dependant - of course once you are married it is more straightforward, but not a 'given'


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## Francesca747 (Nov 18, 2012)

If you have 160,000 euros or more to blow buy in France. You will get a beautiful place over there for that, with land. No pressure after 3 months to become a resident when you dont want to. You dont have to give your identification number just to sign for a package or pay with a credit card. People in France tend not to just push you out of the way like the spanish do in supermarkets, you will hear excuse me, please, thank you...Sounds good to me


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## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

Interesting advice, thank you. I have European PMI cover and could soon add Elena to it. I assume it is 10,000 euros for a couple.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Francesca747 said:


> If you have 160,000 euros or more to blow buy in France. You will get a beautiful place over there for that, with land. No pressure after 3 months to become a resident when you dont want to. You dont have to give your identification number just to sign for a package or pay with a credit card. People in France tend not to just push you out of the way like the spanish do in supermarkets, you will hear excuse me, please, thank you...Sounds good to me


not strictly true and I quote



> Inactif/Not working (retired, student, other)
> EU-citizens moving to France with no income from employment (such as retired people and students) have the right to live in France, but need to show they have the financial resources to be self-supporting and not depend on the French state


EU Citizens: Definitions of Residence | AngloINFO France

And I would suggest you visit a few living in France web sites to get an idea of the bureaucracy in France - I have been visiting France for many years and was a place we first considered moving to. I have loads of paperwork with the can and can,t do,s from France. You may not have to apply for residency however you cannot sit under the radar in france.

as for excuse me,please and thank you in France I suppose that depends where you go and who you are talking to. Been to a UK supermarket recently.. there are ignorant and rude people all over the world... why oh why does would you reccomend a country based on experiences in a supermarket.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

macdog said:


> Interesting advice, thank you. I have European PMI cover and could soon add Elena to it. I assume it is 10,000 euros for a couple.


HI there

this is not really set in stone. We are moving over at the end of next year and no where is it written down the exact amount and from what I have read depends where you are locating too.

i have found sites where it says 5k for the first and then 8K for the second.
Others say 5K pp. We will be in receipt of a pension and the rest of the income will come from capital - We will buy AFTER we have got residency if we can but I have come to the conclusion that the only person who knows what the income levels are will be the person dealing with you on the day!


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## Francesca747 (Nov 18, 2012)

A few years ago Id of said it would be easier in Spain to get residency etc, as you know the French like all paperwork in order and check it again and again...But Spain in my eyes is not an easy place to stay either now...With work situation here etc and all these rules and regulations they have brought in lately
Look at the Ukranian Embassy website in France and see what she would need, some non EU countries need a visa even for a short stay, so seek definate advice before embarking on a house purchase. Combine that with your quality of life, if you can put up with cars up your backside everytime your on the road, miserable people all around, minus a few then Spain is for you, it is certainly not the happy go lucky place I remembered a number of years ago...but then again Im in ALhaurin el Grande maybe that says it all!


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## Francesca747 (Nov 18, 2012)

UMM why would I recommend France, maybe because I lived there for alot of my life....Yes maybe thats why


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## Francesca747 (Nov 18, 2012)

Cambio I dont appreciate you ripping me to bits, when Im trying to help someone who is asking a question...SO you went to France on holiday a few times, big deal! Ask before you assume I need to read articles and gain knowledge from the French forum..I was not implying anyone should sit under the radar, why would anyone move to a country if they didnt have means to support themselves, as he could afford a 160,000 euro house, one would assume he would have financial means also and not be so stupid as to go to France or SPain with no way to live...I think I have more knowledge than you having lived in France for over 10 years. Yes there are rude people all over the world, and alot of them live in SPain..Im sick of people pretending Spain is so wonderful, the locals are so friendly and helpful, maybe if they spoke spanish they wouldnt think that, everyone sounds friendly and helpful when you cant understand a word they are saying....


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Francesca747 said:


> UMM why would I recommend France, maybe because I lived there for alot of my life....Yes maybe thats why



my point was not that you recommended france but your original post cited the supermarkets etc.

I agree France is a stunning place - we as I said considered moving there, however it did not feel right 

Your most recent post is clearer and I have to agree to an extent - but i dont think france is having a great time hence london holds the 3rd largest french population outside france or figures similar to that.

I think on this matter we will have to agree to disagree

post your other post

i was not ripping you apart i was voicing an opinion that you did not like, i have made a reasoned response which is above. and i have never said/read that everything in spain is wonderful.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

:focus:

while interesting, the discussion of France V Spain has nothing to do with the OP's question

any more off-topic posts will be deleted - if you want to discuss it, please start a thread in La Tasca


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I read/heard somewhere that there is a sizeable Ukrainian community in Spain...in Anadalucia, that is. 
If that is indeed so, how did they manage to be able to live and work here?
As someone has saidd, the simplest way forward is to get married, which as you refer to your 'fiancee' you obviously intend to do anyway.

The best place to live...? Anywhere is good to live if you have plenty of money.


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## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

I have visited France on many occasions and indeed lived in Paris for three months. Have to say that some of the quieter villages can be a little daunting for tourists. I can speak french fairly well so it tends to break the ice quicker. 

I used to visit Mallorca and Tenerife (where my neighbours moved to about 20 years ago) and the pace of life even in Palma is much more relaxed. Supermarkets in the UK are like trolley wars this time of year.

Income I have a small online business that sells model railway spare parts, mainly Hornby but also the new Jouef and Electrotren items. So easily relocatable.


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## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

I heard the same about Ukrainians in Spain and it appears in Italy. Elena has heard she can obtain work visa fairly easily as a vet.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

macdog said:


> I heard the same about Ukrainians in Spain and it appears in Italy. Elena has heard she can obtain work visa fairly easily as a vet.


if you marry & she gets a resident visa as your wife, she'd be able to work in any case


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## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

I like that idea, I can be a kept man.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

macdog said:


> I heard the same about Ukrainians in Spain and it appears in Italy. Elena has heard she can obtain work visa fairly easily as a vet.


I'd be surprised ! I know more vets not employed as vets than I do vets who earn a living at it. I know more vets who work in other lines of work & I know more spanish vets working in the UK than I do here !


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## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

Hi Folks - update. As you know I have been looking at Mallorca or France. It seems that most lawyers in Spain do not know the residency rules either. Two estate agents have told me that on advice from their lawyers, non-eu spouse can only stay in Spain for max 180 days per year and do not qualify for residency. In addition to be able to apply for residency myself (UK citizen) with rights to work (even self-employed) I need 75,000 euros in cash at bank. That even if married before buying property Elena would not get same residency as myself. Also even if new law comes into effect only the property buyer and not family will obtain residency rights. Is this something specific to Mallorca ? Finally it has to be a suitable sized property, so a studio does not count but a small 1 bed may also not be classed as large enough for main residence.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

macdog said:


> Hi Folks - update. As you know I have been looking at Mallorca or France. It seems that most lawyers in Spain do not know the residency rules either. Two estate agents have told me that on advice from their lawyers, non-eu spouse can only stay in Spain for max 180 days per year and do not qualify for residency. In addition to be able to apply for residency myself (UK citizen) with rights to work (even self-employed) I need 75,000 euros in cash at bank. That even if married before buying property Elena would not get same residency as myself. Also even if new law comes into effect only the property buyer and not family will obtain residency rights. Is this something specific to Mallorca ? Finally it has to be a suitable sized property, so a studio does not count but a small 1 bed may also not be classed as large enough for main residence.


for only you to register as resident you absolutely don't need that much in the bank  - however that is the figure usually quoted for non-EU citizens wanting to apply for non-lucrative visas to Spain - maybe that's where they get it from 

I know people, both personally & on this forum, who have registered as resident since the new rules, with just 5,000€ in the bank - that is the requirement they were given at the _extranjería_

they did need private health insurance

we also have forum members who are indeed non-EU spouses of EU citizens - they certainly don't only stay 180 days a year

maybe speak to an _extranjería - _rather than estate agents or their lawyers


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I have also enquired re our move. you do not need that much in the bank, prrof of income approx 5-8K in bank and health care.


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## macdog (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks both. Cambio - how much income do you have to proove ?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

macdog said:


> Thanks both. Cambio - how much income do you have to proove ?


the solicitor i spoke to said you had to show funds/income 



> for two people just over 1000 euros. If less you can always prove savings


However as with all things spanish, untill we are there and going through the process i take nothing for granted.


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