# How do they do it?



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I have been looking at local wage rates and salaries. 

Unskilled labourers are 300 to 400 a day.

I know a woman who is just starting as a casino dealer, she will get 350 a day for the first 4 months then 500 a day after that with a 4000 bonus for perfect attendance. She will max out at 17k a month if she never misses a day.

Skilled people do not fare much better. Glassdoor shows new graduate professionals making about 20k a month with experienced professionals getting perhaps twice to four times that. I know that these are realistic salaries because I once worked for a USAID contractor. On these a person’s salary was based on their confirmed past salary history and the Philippine engineers I worked with were in that range. They often made less per day than the Afghan engineers at base rate. Experienced senior engineers would have salary history showing between 2k and 3 k a day or less than 100k a month. 

I saw a doctor recently. It was 320 for the initial consult. If he saw 6 an hour at that rate he would see 48 in a 8 hour day or generate just over 15k a day in revenue. Using the rule of thumb that his salary would be about a third of the revenue he generated that gives over 5 k a day or about 130k a month (before taxes, his marginal tax rate would be 34%) for 26 days work. Rough I know but it puts the number in the ball park.)

I live in an SM condo development. My place one bedroom is just under 30k a month all in. The place is limited to a max of 3 people in it and that is enforced. That will be a big piece of a professional salary let alone a worker’s wages. There are lots of locals living here. They don’t look like established professionals but are mainly younger people. 

I see ads for bed spacer berths for 3000 to 5000 a month. Even that is a huge bite into a labourer or shop worker salary. 

These are accommodation costs, food, clothes etc. are all extra.

If these salary numbers are reasonable accurate I do not see how any local can survive, living well, raising kids. In a province it may be easier, costs will be much lower but so will salaries.

How do they do it?


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> I have been looking at local wage rates and salaries.
> 
> Unskilled labourers are 300 to 400 a day.
> 
> ...


Well put Manitoba. The mind boggles and then some but hey they do it and still smile and while many have little still manage to share with less fortunate family and members of the immediate community. 
We can, including myself quote incomes and living standards, absolutely not having a go at you as your post is relevant to all us expats living and dealing with life in this wonderful country. While I see/saw an inexpensive retirement destination many years ago I have also learnt the true meaning of sharing, acceptance and yes, humility. (that was hard earn't) 

"How do they do it?" Easy as there is little or no choice for a better life, that's why PH has so many OFW's helping the less fortunate. 

Thanks for your post mate. Refreshes my reasons for choosing PH.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

bigpearl said:


> Well put Manitoba. The mind boggles and then some but hey they do it and still smile and while many have little still manage to share with less fortunate family and members of the immediate community.
> We can, including myself quote incomes and living standards, absolutely not having a go at you as your post is relevant to all us expats living and dealing with life in this wonderful country. While I see/saw an inexpensive retirement destination many years ago I have also learnt the true meaning of sharing, acceptance and yes, humility. (that was hard earn't)
> 
> "How do they do it?" Easy as there is little or no choice for a better life, that's why PH has so many OFW's helping the less fortunate.
> ...





Manitoba said:


> I have been looking at local wage rates and salaries.
> 
> Unskilled labourers are 300 to 400 a day.
> 
> ...


Both great post guys and an excellent subject to be sure. Very true on the OFW's providing a lot. Many families have one sacrificial lamb that gives their entire life to work overseas and support the family back here at home. Others farm and live on meager amounts far below the poverty line. Still others get a few sheckles and open a small business such as fixing flat tires on bikes, motorcycles, and cars etc. Sometimes unfortunately people and families with no employable skills will turn to different forms of crime such as breaking and entering homes and businesses at night and or selling drugs.

We live in an area where all these forms of locally generated forms of income exist. Our home is located (by choice) in a Pinatubo resettlement town, elbow to elbow with the poorest of the poor. It never ceases to amaze me how these people get by as they do.

We as a family spend considerable time being active in life and at many of the malls in the Angeles area. We see those highrise condo's and high end housing subdivisions close to them. But to tell the truth, I wouldn't trade living where we do for any one of them even if free. Spending all these years in this resettlement has given us the opportunity to be with the local people on a daily basis and has been the biggest adventure of a lifetime. Far better than living back in Southern California in a condo there.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

A lot of OFW’s cannot send that much home. I dated a girl from here in Dubai. She worked as a waitress for a company that would put on special events. Corporate parties, catered events etc. If it wasn’t for the free food that she could get at the end of a shift, provided there was anything left over, she would not have been able to send anything home. She shared a studio apartment with 3 others for a while. As it was she was lucky to send 10kp a month. When we went out often she would ask if she could invite a housemate along. I always said sure because the meal I bought for the housemate would be repaid to her when I was not there. She had 3 young kids here and went 3 years without seeing them. She is still in Dubai and has been there 6 years and only 3 trips home. She has another 8 months before she can get another trip back here.

The casino dealer I mentioned in my opening post had an offer for dealing in Hong Kong. She would get 32k a month with free room and board. That will be a dormitory and most likely not the best food either. 

A lot of the OFW’s get abused and mistreated overseas, especially the women in the GCC. We have all heard of house staff there who are raped by their employer then deported for having sex outside of marriage. 

The engineers I worked with on the USAID contracts only got Philippine wages plus a slight raise and danger and post differentials (70% extra). They did not do too badly but were in a dangerous area.

The remittance money can help but it is not enough to relieve the poverty here. Sharing with friends and family helps but there is an expectation of reciprocal help and the giver will always do without when they help. 

Not every family has a member who is an OFW. Someone who can get to a first world country in a professional job can send significant amounts home but these are pretty rare too. 

Employers take advantage of the workers as well. The casino worker had to get a full medical before she could start work. She had to pay for it herself, there goes the first 2 weeks pay. (Anytime I have been asked for a medical before employment the company always paid for it.) 

Part of the reason why you get such bad service in shops is that an employee gets a significant boost in benefits after 5 months employment. It is much cheaper to terminate their employment before that and hire another person. Customer service and efficiency go out the window.

It is no wonder crime and scamming is so commonplace here. The entire country would be much better off if people could earn enough from their job so that they could afford to be honest.

It is no wonder that there is no long-term planning here as well. Why plan for next week or even tomorrow when you do not know if you will be able to feed your kids tonight?


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## expatuk2016 (Mar 20, 2016)

We employ a local guy to do our maintenance we pay him 600 pesos a day 
Average 3 days a week. Yes i know the average rate is 380 pesos but his work is good

We also emply a driver at 500 pesos a day for manila trips and he eats with us
I believe in paying a fare rate for a days pay but thats just me.


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## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

This is why raising kids over here would be a very tough decision. No matter how great of an education you can afford for them they run the risk of either not finding employment in the PI or having to move overseas to find work. It would be hard to see your kid go off to another country and then only see them every few years or less. My nest egg will not last forever.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Zep said:


> This is why raising kids over here would be a very tough decision. No matter how great of an education you can afford for them they run the risk of either not finding employment in the PI or having to move overseas to find work. It would be hard to see your kid go off to another country and then only see them every few years or less. My nest egg will not last forever.


We are raising four girls born here in the islands and not American citizens. They are preparing to study at BYU Hawaii. Then hopefully marry and live in the States if that is what they want to do. Having them live here close to family is best and most enjoyable for us. At the same time, we are raising them to be self reliant and independent so that they can live the best life possible for themselves and the children that they have one day. Their needs trump our personal wants-always. I'm sure we will see them whenever possible but knowing their lives will be better elsewhere.


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## mogo51 (Jun 11, 2011)

You are looking at it from a western perspective, the Filipino perspective is a lot more basic as is their expectations. Salaries here are indeed low, but so is the cost of living. 
It is the reason why many Filipinos go overseas in search of higher wages. 
It is all relevant.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

We got an uncle here that worked for the school district (horrid pay). He has a wife, and they raised 3 kids on his salary alone. No OFW help. How they did it? I really don't know - but it is done all the time here. 

I live pretty rustic for a foreigner, but I do not live like a local.


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

How do they do it? They rely on family and then in turn, if they get the chance, they will sacrifice all they can for their siblings or cousins.
They share what good fortune comes their way.
And when short many will resort to 5 6 (borrowing money).
Many will be malnourished and many will go without basics.
It's quite sad to see so many low paid jobs (e.g. sales clerk in SM) requiring a 4 year college degree, meaning for that person to work as a sales clerk they probably had a sibling, parent or other relative work abroad for several years, to fund their education, just so they can earn a minimum wage, most of which will pay for the next in line in the family to be educated.

The one plus I see here is for those fortunate enough to have a family lot/compound there is not the pressure (nor the opportunity) to leave the nest, so many are quite capable of living rent free surrounded by parents and relatives. Communal living is cheaper, but there will usually be a sacrificial lamb somewhere abroad or in Manila, sending money back to keep the lights on.

Just last weekend I saw a call center advertising for workers in Manila. 12-16K per month, working 40 hours per week on a night shift, in Manila.
They were advertising in the province, so hoping to hire people willing to commute to Manila each week. During the week, workers typically share small apartments, with about 8 people to a room.

How do they do it? I dont know!


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## mogo51 (Jun 11, 2011)

Very true Tim. How is life there, we have settled well in Nth Luzon.


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## mogo51 (Jun 11, 2011)

Yes the poor and needy are really manipulated here in Philippines but they seem to brush it off and live happily enough. The family structure is very important to them that is for certain. Without it, it would be a real struggle for them (or harder one I should say).


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Asian Spirit said:


> Both great post guys and an excellent subject to be sure. Very true on the OFW's providing a lot. Many families have one sacrificial lamb that gives their entire life to work overseas and support the family back here at home. Others farm and live on meager amounts far below the poverty line. Still others get a few sheckles and open a small business such as fixing flat tires on bikes, motorcycles, and cars etc. Sometimes unfortunately people and families with no employable skills will turn to different forms of crime such as breaking and entering homes and businesses at night and or selling drugs.
> 
> We live in an area where all these forms of locally generated forms of income exist. Our home is located (by choice) in a Pinatubo resettlement town, elbow to elbow with the poorest of the poor. It never ceases to amaze me how these people get by as they do.
> 
> We as a family spend considerable time being active in life and at many of the malls in the Angeles area. We see those highrise condo's and high end housing subdivisions close to them. But to tell the truth, I wouldn't trade living where we do for any one of them even if free. Spending all these years in this resettlement has given us the opportunity to be with the local people on a daily basis and has been the biggest adventure of a lifetime. Far better than living back in Southern California in a condo there.


We all have limitations Asian Spirit. While I enjoy being with the 5,000 family members on the old PNR line (squatters) in Banks Poro SFC and the resettlement village in Bulacan some 4 hours south at the brother in laws house I also like my space,,,,, as does Bengie, His mother was an OFW for nearly 30 years and prior to her deportation from Dubai some 3 years ago spent only 3 years of his then 24 years getting to know his mother, sad and true. Mum gave all to her family and went without to furnish a better life for her children and husband, other family members I am sure. They still do it by running a popular Sari Sari investment and I am sure it's only a supplement for daily needs.
Bengie's niece today passed her nursing board exam so will also contribute to the immediate family as an OFW if she now takes the time to learn and grasp english as a prospective OFW and so it goes on. More fun in the Philippines and yes that's why I am here on this site and moving soon.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Worker generosity*



mogo51 said:


> You are looking at it from a western perspective, the Filipino perspective is a lot more basic as is their expectations. Salaries here are indeed low, but so is the cost of living.
> It is the reason why many Filipinos go overseas in search of higher wages.
> It is all relevant.


We used to really spoil the workers or my wife did for years but I can't afford to give away that much money and due to this it's now hard for us to find workers if they keep getting a higher wage than what's called for than they expect it and they pass the word on to other fellow mechanics and skilled laborers. 

We found one good skilled worker but his demands kept climbing and so we ditched him for good and found somebody else at a fraction of cost plus he was stealing things but we didn't catch on tell much later he's really sneaky, now I know where all my tools went.

So if you give them too much money and also feed them you are setting yourself up for a standard and after a couple decades my pension is starting to look much dimmer but the average wage for a small or quick job is 100 pesos... Lol oh well and an all day job 300 pesos, these guys never do perfect work because you'll find that out much later and 300 pesos to someone who doesn't have to pay rent (most here) will buy meat and rice and possibly some liquor and cigarettes, you wouldn't believe the actual rates that they get paid by most Philippine citizens, some don't get paid or fed and I'm not kidding, that's ridiculous but I have a sister in-law that didn't pay for work but I guess she might have allowed the worker to drink at parties and my cousin in-law who is a barangay also didn't pay to have his house built they ditched him after two weeks his walls were up by then.


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## DavidRSturgill (Jan 27, 2021)

Manitoba said:


> I have been looking at local wage rates and salaries.
> 
> Unskilled labourers are 300 to 400 a day.
> 
> ...


Are you ready to make some money at the card tables, rather than losing it? The best way is to change sides and become a casino dealer.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

DavidRSturgill said:


> Are you ready to make some money at the card tables, rather than losing it? The best way is to change sides and become a casino dealer.


 Well. I have wonn rather much at poker (in old messure) but that was the old type poker with max pot limits, before Texas Holdem. 
((Face to face I have only participated in one tournement and that was back when it was new and I learned the rules in an hours in between I had participated in qualification to World Championship in Renju and a Texas Holdem tournement would start in an other place in same city. I managed to get to the semi-final by skill, while some, who had earned much at Texas Holdem, didn't!  But in the semi-final I knocked out two experienced players and shocked them by follow their bets, although I had the WORST cards possible (=7 and 2 in different colors) but I FELT it could be good. The other two thought they had the best possible (=two high pairs) and expected to split the pot, but at the last card I got a third 7 so I got triss and got to the Final by that. But I don't like Texas Holdem because the luck is to big part anyway


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> I live in an SM condo development. My place one bedroom is just under 30k a month all in.


 Why do you rent that expensive?  There are ok studio type appartments for 3000 per month in cities/towns in provinces. 


Manitoba said:


> I see ads for bed spacer berths for 3000 to 5000 a month. Even that is a huge bite into a labourer or shop worker salary.


 In provinces there are ok HOUSES for rent for (6000) 8000. 


Manitoba said:


> If these salary numbers are reasonable accurate I do not see how any local can survive, living well, raising kids. In a province it may be easier, costs will be much lower but so will salaries.


 In provinces minimi salaries are around 7000 for workers without being specialist. Many employers don't even pay that law minimum! Even before covid the poor didn't realy managed if only one per family had work, many half starved then too and many are in dept traps with very high interests  so they have no chance to get out of it themself


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

What you say is true for the provinces, I am in Cebu province now and am in a 2 bedroom, 60 sq m seaside place at 25k p all in.

However about 20% of the population lives in or around metro Manila more around Cebu and Davao and other cities, in the provinces salaries are correspondingly lower too.


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