# Australian universities calls for student visa assessment changes



## Editor (Aug 20, 2009)

Australian universities are calling for visa restrictions for foreign students to be eased after figures revealed that there has been a significant drop in student arrivals from India and China. These two countries have been the main source of students arriving in Australia in recent years but a drop in numbers means that self-funding universities [...]

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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

I hope they succeed. If only they would do the same for the fee structures and then everyone would be happy.


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## armandra (Nov 27, 2009)

Darla.R said:


> I hope they succeed. If only they would do the same for the fee structures and then everyone would be happy.


Exactly. Why on earth do we as international students pay such high fee and don't even get to enjoy basic amenities like discounted travel? 

These are the points I'd like to see changes in:

1. International fee should come down (you can't have the pie and eat it too). We pay 4 times as much as the PR holders and citizens do. The point? This money again goes back into the system to fund education for the locals. 

2. Major number of companies don't accept international students for internships. At the end without local experience, no one is ready to take you on for a full time job after graduation. This is serious discrimination.

3. The Skilled Graduate 485 Visa, which gives international students who have studied 2 complete years an opportunity to soak in the local work culture has an expiry date of 1.5 years and boom none of the major organisations are ready to offer graduate jobs for the 485 visa holders. Reason? Need to be a PR since the training and mentoring costs would go down the drain if the student decides to leave for home country.

4. Discounted travel for international students in NSW and Vic (which take in the major part of international education pie).

5. Stop fiddling with the PR rules, at least for those who have studied here spending AU $50k - 100k in the hope of being able to get a job and work for a couple of years. Not everyone is interested in settling down you see. Look at US, which takes the highest number of international students. The graduates get a H-1 visa (sponsored by organisations, of course, without any hassles) which is of 3 years duration and hey no one is complaining. Neither the organisations nor the students.

6. Get your act together and stop double timing in the name of quality education particularly in the Vocational education sector. The Howard government opened the flood gates and that resulted in cheap vocational colleges with just a rented room or two to be granted recognition. At the end, don't blame the students for joining these colleges and shelling out $50k in the hope of getting PRs.

7. The higher education sector, which comprises of almost 80% international students is just such a sham. Many organisations restrict bachelors as the entry qualification for Graduate jobs. Those with masters are considered to be over qualified. Would you believe that particularly when master degrees have a lot in common with the bachelor degree in content?

8. Why do they have the 2 year study rule to be eligible for either 485 graduate visa or 885 PR visa? Why can't someone who studied just for a year be eligible for that?? Simple! It's all about money honey!! This happens only in Australia and in none of the competing countries like UK, US, Canada, New Zealand, etc. Hell, many of my friends went to Germany and Sweden where the international students pay as much as locals do i.e., EUROS 250 per semester (like AU $350) which is basically nothing. Free education for all!!

9. If you wanna debate about the increasing population and decreasing quality of infrastructure, do it at the time of elections and stop counting international students as Net Overseas Migrants (NOM). Did you say Overseas Migration after changing the SOL at the drop of a hat and new processing priorities thrown in once in a while??

10. Come up with a work visa for international students (duration 3 years or so) which the organisations are ready to accept with no questions asked.

Phew!! That's a long post!!! 

armandra!


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## ricks1088 (Mar 10, 2011)

I agree 100% with you Armandra.

I have done my Undergrad from US. Had 50% scholarship and rest of the fee was affordable. Now, I got admission in Univ of Melbourne for Masters, the course is of 1.5 yrs total feel 50K (excluding living expenses) work status after studies: None!! I decided to go for work visa than studies. I can't afford 50K with such strict visa rules.


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## armandra (Nov 27, 2009)

ricks1088 said:


> I agree 100% with you Armandra.
> 
> I have done my Undergrad from US. Had 50% scholarship and rest of the fee was affordable. Now, I got admission in Univ of Melbourne for Masters, the course is of 1.5 yrs total feel 50K (excluding living expenses) work status after studies: None!! I decided to go for work visa than studies. I can't afford 50K with such strict visa rules.


Bingo! Me in the same boat, as well. Have been dreaming of taking up masters at Monash or Melbourne uni for quite sometime, but to no avail thanks to the unrealistic and uncompetitive student visa rules. Figured out, it's easier to get a PR visa instead. Ironic, I know. 


armandra!


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

If the fee structures are the same then there is absolutely no point of having International students in Australia and it's ridiculous to think overwise. People who go to uni here have potentially paid tens of thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax and for an international student to come in and pay the same price it's just insulting. How about if I was to go to Harvard or Cambridge and pay the same fees as a local it's just complete madness.


Amandra,

It's important to remember though that it's very easy to get into a good uni as an international student. It's completely different on the Australian Pool. Only the top 2-3% of Australian students can get into Melbourne Post Grad. For International it would be top 15-20%

The Chinese aren't coming because of the strong dollar and the Indians aren't coming because of the removal of the PR on voc courses....which I'm sure people here would know that it was out of control.

Australia has some very good universities but it also had some shonkey operations (mainly controlled by Indians)

As for fees it's important to remember that Australia is an expensive country and 50k isn't a lot of money to many people. Your also essentially paying for the opportunity to live in Australia at the end.


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## ricks1088 (Mar 10, 2011)

Weebie said:


> As for fees it's important to remember that Australia is an expensive country and 50k isn't a lot of money to many people. Your also essentially paying for the opportunity to live in Australia at the end.



Not necessarily because after doing 1.5 years of Masters and paying 50K, one does not get any work authorization.

As you mentioned Harvard and Cambridge, only 2-3 % of top internationals get into such univs or and most of the time with scholarships. IVY league and top US, UK and other European univs offer admissions on the basis of merit. Their admission process is very rigorous and unlike Aust univs, they have more scholarship options for Internationals (because they don't accept 15-20% of the internationals just to make money). 

Australian Univs act more like money making businesses than education providers. The point is not make fee equivalent to locals but to make it at least affordable. 50K (or above 100K for undergrad degree) is a big amount for international students.


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## Guest (May 6, 2011)

ricks1088 said:


> Not necessarily because after doing 1.5 years of Masters and paying 50K, one does not get any work authorization.
> 
> As you mentioned Harvard and Cambridge, only 2-3 % of top internationals get into such univs or and most of the time with scholarships. IVY league and top US, UK and European univs offer admissions on the basis of merit. Their admission process is very rigorous and unlike Aust univs, they have more scholarship options for Internationals(because they don't accept 15-20% of the internationals just to make money).
> 
> Australian Univs behave more like money making businesses than education providers. The point is not make fee equivalent to locals but to make it at least affordable. 50K (or above 100K for undergrad degree) is a big amount for international students.


Stanford’s admission program is need-blind (with the exception of international
students): http://admission.stanford.edu/pdf/stanford_preview.pdf

The fact remains that tuition fee itself for international students is high. If somebody gets a scholarship, well that's another story. Compared to US tuition, if you really are expected to pay ONLY AUD 50000 for the WHOLE program, I'd say its still peanuts.

And with the cream of students going to America anyways, it is understandable if OZ universities look to cash in from the remaining ones. I mean, no one would say that Australia's aims for luring international students are charitable.

What makes sense is to charge appropriate fee, but then offer permanent residency and equal job and internship opportunities in return. And of course, this should follow Australia's needs. So for example, each year they should have a SOL and only people starting degrees in the SOL for a given year should be eligible for PR.


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## ricks1088 (Mar 10, 2011)

50K is the tuition add another 30K for living expenses and that is for Masters program of 1.5 year. I would be repeating myself by pointing out again that you don't get any work authorization after 1 or 1.5 years of Masters.That 80K will not get you any life in Australia as without local experience, chances of getting a job in Australian market are very low for fresh graduates. 

I agree with your statement that cream of students are going to US but there are reasons behind that which can be analyzed. I am an average student. I came to US for undergrad because the program was good and the fee was more affordable. I had good scholarship and proper work authorization after graduation (Optional practical training period for 29 months and then employer sponsored visa).



ausimmi said:


> What makes sense is to charge appropriate fee, but then offer permanent residency and equal job and internship opportunities in return. And of course, this should follow Australia's needs. So for example, each year they should have a SOL and only people starting degrees in the SOL for a given year should be eligible for PR.


Completely agree with your above remark. 

Anyways, this discussion can go very long. I wil put a period on my thought process


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## ricks1088 (Mar 10, 2011)

and yeah about Stanford. Admission is not need based funding is. Its normal in US to offer need based funding to locals to enroll in higher education program but to be eligible for such funding programs, they have to get admitted first and admission process of top univs is very tough both for domestic and international students. IMO, this is a fairer approach.


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

If you want to do a masters at an Australian Uni there are plenty of cheaper alternatives at good universities.


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## armandra (Nov 27, 2009)

The point is, what % of $19b, which Australia makes every year from the international education sector, is used for helping international students make the cut?

Any course in say, University of Melboure or UNSW costs around $30k per year and that would come up to 30k*2 + 18k*2 ~ $100k.

It's the same story with tier 2 unis as well such as Macquarie, Deakin, University of South Australia, etc., they charge somewhere in between 20-25k per year. 

If only even 1% of the $19b goes back into the system in the form of scholarships for those who have good academic background, but fall short of proving they have $100k as disposable and liquid assets held for the last 3 or 6 months (Assessment Level 3 and 4 countries respectively), it would make a hell lotta difference and you'd see a lot more creme de la creme lining up to study in Australia as well.


armandra!


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## Guest (May 6, 2011)

armandra said:


> The point is, what % of $19b, which Australia makes every year from the international education sector, is used for helping international students make the cut?
> 
> Any course in say, University of Melboure or UNSW costs around $30k per year and that would come up to 30k*2 + 18k*2 ~ $100k.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the generous scholarships available in America are NOT a result of international student's money going back into the system, but rather BIG spending by the DoD for their research needs. The American Military Enterprise is what is fuelling the generous scholarships. I would be quick to point out that America is also racking up a massive debt and the dollar is in danger of losing its 'safe haven' status if the government doesn't act soon. And that may actually mean a cut in the generous fundings you are cheering...


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