# Self Employment on Tier 5 Youth Mobility Visa



## gilesh (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi all, I had my fast tracked in person appointment for my spouse visa application today. 

I am an Australian citizen working in the UK on a soon to expire tier 5 youth mobility visa. My husband is English. 

They didn't give us a decision today as 2 hrs after taking the application they called me back in and said I am not allowed to work as self employed on the tier 5 visa so am in breech of my visa conditions so that income could not be used for my application, that they were going to check but if that was the case it would be refused. I was completely shocked by this, as many Australians I know are doing the same type of work on the same visa. In fact it was an accountant that recommended I became self employed. I ended up changing accountants and they also had no problem with the visa I was on, and I had no problems registering my company (of which I am the director and sole employee). I had also spoken to 2 immigration lawyers in the lead up to my appointment and neither had flagged it as an issue. 

When we got home my husband found online (UKBA site) a section that says I can be self employed as long as I dont
a) own the property where I work (I don't own any property)
b) my business didn't have equipment worth more than £5000 (I don't, however I'm a locum vet and the hospitals I am contracted to work in have equipment in excess of this amount, but that is not owned by me)
c) don't have any employees (I don't). 

I emailed them straight away with the above but haven't heard back. I'm concerned that although I am allowed to be self employed that I may be declined as I haven't expressed that I meet the criteria to allow it anywhere in my application. Though I don't know how I would prove I don't have the equipment, I'm worried they will have wanted me to put in writing that I don't. The letter from my accountant states that I don't have any employees so that should be fine. 

I'm not sure what to do, should I try calling someone? Or try to send in a letter stating that I meet the criteria? I don't even know where I'd send it. 

Also just FYI:
-the guy that took our application was non plussed with letters and photos of us together, he said these don't hold any weight as I could have taken them with any old person. 
-he said the relationship proof needed to be official documents such as phone statements (which we had, which our lawyer had said not to bother with!), and evidence of attending doctors/dentists etc in the area where we live together. We had train and bus tickets showing we'd visited each other regularly, again he didn't care about those/said they don't hold weight. 

From speaking to different immigration lawyers and reading things on the forum I get the strong impression that things are open to interpretation and different people (lawyers, boarder staff) view different things as important. For this reason I'd get as much info/evidence as possible to cover all bases. One lawyer had told me that they wouldn't take my earnings into account and it should be my sponsor that earned the amount, which appears to be just plain wrong! Another lawyer said we should be able to combine savings with self employed income (it says clearly on the form that you can't). 

Hope that's helpful. 

Thanks in advance, Rose


----------



## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

gilesh said:


> Hi all, I had my fast tracked in person appointment for my spouse visa application today.
> 
> I am an Australian citizen working in the UK on a soon to expire tier 5 youth mobility visa. My husband is English.
> 
> ...


Chances are your ECO needed to verify these details, and that would've taken more time than you had on your premium appointment. If you are 100% positive that you meet all of the criteria and have shown that in your application, you should be okay. 



> I'm not sure what to do, should I try calling someone? Or try to send in a letter stating that I meet the criteria? I don't even know where I'd send it.


No, there's no point unless your ECO gave your their personal contact information to reach them. Best to wait for a decision and go from there. 



> Also just FYI:
> -the guy that took our application was non plussed with letters and photos of us together, he said these don't hold any weight as I could have taken them with any old person.
> -he said the relationship proof needed to be official documents such as phone statements (which we had, which our lawyer had said not to bother with!), and evidence of attending doctors/dentists etc in the area where we live together. We had train and bus tickets showing we'd visited each other regularly, again he didn't care about those/said they don't hold weight.


Yes, that's common. Letters & photos aren't all that important. More evidence is on vacations together, official documents (like he said) and hard evidence of being together ie. bookings made together in both names, etc. 



> From speaking to different immigration lawyers and reading things on the forum I get the strong impression that things are open to interpretation and different people (lawyers, boarder staff) view different things as important. For this reason I'd get as much info/evidence as possible to cover all bases. One lawyer had told me that they wouldn't take my earnings into account and it should be my sponsor that earned the amount, which appears to be just plain wrong! Another lawyer said we should be able to combine savings with self employed income (it says clearly on the form that you can't).


We do find often that immigration lawyers seem to provide varying degrees of accurate information, which is unfortunate, especially with all the changes happening previously. 



> Hope that's helpful.
> 
> Thanks in advance, Rose


Unfortunately, there's not much you can do this very moment except for wait for a response. Did they give you an approximate timeline for a response? The worst that can happen is they refuse your application, however, if you believe that they made an incorrect decision you can appeal, and you will be allowed to remain in the UK on the rules of your previous stay while the appeal is being considered. Wait and see if any other forum members chime in with better/more advice. Good luck.


----------



## gilesh (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi Leanna, thank you very much for your prompt and comprehensive reply. I did ask how long they think it will take to reach a decision but the lady just shrugged. They had said that they were over booked and very busy today so hopefully it's just that they need more time to verify things. 

I am sure that I meet the criteria for self employment, but I haven't written that anywhere (it wasn't asked, this is something completely unexpected for me). However, as I mentioned it says in my accountant's letter that I don't have any employees. 

Do you think if they are in doubt that they will give me a chance to prove these things, or is it more likely to be a flat out refusal? I'm hoping they have a way of checking that I don't have any property in my name. I also have a letter from my employer that talks about me being allowed to stay in the hospital if required, for a fee, so hopefully they can deduce from that that it's not my property! :S

Yes very worrying about the lawyers. The man who took our application (who was nice) said straight off: 'oh you're going for the spouse visa, have you read it all really carefully because it is the one where there are a lot of refusals, especially after the changes in July. He said that the error that people often make is not clicking on/reading all the hyperlinks in the guidance documents. (again just some info that might be useful to people). 

Thanks again, Rose






Leanna said:


> Chances are your ECO needed to verify these details, and that would've taken more time than you had on your premium appointment. If you are 100% positive that you meet all of the criteria and have shown that in your application, you should be okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

gilesh said:


> Hi Leanna, thank you very much for your prompt and comprehensive reply. I did ask how long they think it will take to reach a decision but the lady just shrugged. They had said that they were over booked and very busy today so hopefully it's just that they need more time to verify things.


If I'm not mistaken, you should get a response within a week, though keep in mind the Easter Holidays. 



> I am sure that I meet the criteria for self employment, but I haven't written that anywhere (it wasn't asked, this is something completely unexpected for me). However, as I mentioned it says in my accountant's letter that I don't have any employees.
> 
> Do you think if they are in doubt that they will give me a chance to prove these things, or is it more likely to be a flat out refusal? I'm hoping they have a way of checking that I don't have any property in my name. I also have a letter from my employer that talks about me being allowed to stay in the hospital if required, for a fee, so hopefully they can deduce from that that it's not my property! :S


That's hard to say, it really depends on the ECO. Unfortunately we're finding more and more that instead of asking for additional information, applications are being refused instead. Not to say that's what will happen to yours if they are missing information, it will depend greatly on your ECO. 



> Yes very worrying about the lawyers. The man who took our application (who was nice) said straight off: 'oh you're going for the spouse visa, have you read it all really carefully because it is the one where there are a lot of refusals, especially after the changes in July. He said that the error that people often make is not clicking on/reading all the hyperlinks in the guidance documents. (again just some info that might be useful to people).


Yes, it's a mountain of stuff to read through, that's for sure. It looks as though you've done your research, so even if you have to appeal, it would appear you'd be successful. Fingers crossed that your ECO can deduce this from your application and you will have a decision soon. 



> Thanks again, Rose


----------



## gilesh (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks very much, has put our minds at ease. Happy Easter! Rose




Leanna said:


> If I'm not mistaken, you should get a response within a week, though keep in mind the Easter Holidays.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Leanna said:


> Yes, that's common. Letters & photos aren't all that important. More evidence is on vacations together, official documents (like he said) and hard evidence of being together ie. bookings made together in both names, etc.


It depends on the visa. For a fiancé visa, photos are the only viable proof that you have met in person and as such are vital (more so than mutual travel tickets etc). They can also be useful for applicants applying for a spouse visa (a couple of wedding photos to accompany the marriage certificate). However, for a married couple who are living at the same address (and have the evidence to prove it), photos are rather redundant.

This is why there is no single, definitive list of evidence required. I think the biggest frustration new applicants face is that first realisation that there is no explicit list that can be used for reference. beyond the documents required of everybody (e.g. the financial evidence. There is no 'one size fits all'. Just pointing this out in case any new applicants pop into this thread and believe photos aren't required for them personally.


----------



## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

2farapart said:


> It depends on the visa. For a fiancé visa, photos are the only viable proof that you have met in person and as such are vital (more so than mutual travel tickets etc). They can also be useful for applicants applying for a spouse visa (a couple of wedding photos to accompany the marriage certificate). However, for a married couple who are living at the same address (and have the evidence to prove it), photos are rather redundant.
> 
> This is why there is no single, definitive list of evidence required. I think the biggest frustration new applicants face is that first realisation that there is no explicit list that can be used for reference. beyond the documents required of everybody (e.g. the financial evidence. There is no 'one size fits all'. Just pointing this out in case any new applicants pop into this thread and believe photos aren't required for them personally.


Good point. Thanks 2farapart


----------



## gilesh (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi All, I got the following email this morning:

Ms X (my name), when you were at our office last week, we discussed the exceptions allowing you to carry out work as a self employed person in the Tier 5 youth mobility category. They are as follows: 

Self employment

Self employment is only allowed if:

 the applicant does not own premises where they do business, other than their home, although they may rent premises for the purpose of self employment

 the total value of the equipment they use in their business is no more than £5000, and

 they have no employees.



Can you please confirm that you meet this requirement, signposting the evidence you have already provided as relevant.

Jane Doe
Senior Case Worker
Premium Service Delivery Team, Cardiff PEO
then the address of the cardiff office
----------------

I'm unsure of what I'm meant to provide, and if I'm meant to email it or post it. I had already sent two emails (which I'm not sure if she'd gotten as they were sent to a general email address, not hers), so I replied:

Dear 'Jane', thank you for your email.

I'm not sure if you've got the last two emails I sent last week (I imagine you guys get a lot of emails!), so just in case I've cut and paste them below this email.

Is that the information you require, or would you like a signed original letter from myself? I can get this, perhaps with another letter from the university hospital where I work confirming that I do not own the property/equipment/have employees? Sorry to ask I just want to be really clear on what you'd like so as to get it right. I can send it by first class tomorrow so it would be with you on Thursday of this week.

Best wishes, Rose X


Dear Cardiff UKBA staff,
Re Rose X Spouse Visa application, case reference xyz
I emailed the below earlier today but haven't heard back. I know you guys are really busy at the moment but I'm just wondering:

a) if I should try to get any documentation proving I don't own a property or have equipment (my accountants letter states that I don't have any employees). I'm not entirely sure how I would go about this. Is it possible for you to search and check that I indeed don't have any property in my name? There is a letter from the manager at the veterinary hospital were I work on as a contractor, she mentions that I can stay there for a fee if required- would this be enough to show that I don't own the property? It is a university hospital so is owned by the Royal Vet College. Also as it is an established hospital it has all it's own equipment, so as I locum vet coming in I/my limited company do not need nor have any equipment. I suppose if I did own equipment it would have been declared as a tax deduction, as you can see there are no such deductions in my CT600 tax return. 
If it would be helpful to get a statement from myself, or further information from my accountant or the (Name of place I work) Animals' Hospital (Royal Vet college teaching hospital), I would be more than happy to get this to you ASAP.

b) Do you have any idea how long it will take to reach a decision on my case? I had thought that if a decision wasn't reached on the day it is usual to give a time estimate of when the decision should be made by. When I asked the lady who had informed me about the potential self employment issues she wasn't sure.

I am sorry to email you twice in a busy time, am just worried about what to do as this was totally unforeseen. Best wishes, Rose X

Dear Cardiff UKBA staff,

Re Rose X Spouse Visa application, case reference xzy

Following the information given to me that on a tier 5 youth mobility visa I should not be self employed (with some exceptions), myself and my partner have looked into it as we were very shocked to hear that given it was 2 different accountants that recommended I become self employed/the director of a limited company. In the process of getting together my application I had also paid and spoken to 2 immigration lawyers who had not flagged it as an issue. I'm pleased (and very relieved!) to say we found the following:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...ing/pbs/tier5-youthmobilityscheme?view=Binary
pg18 of 22

Self employment
Self employment is only allowed if:
 the applicant does not own premises where they do business, other than their home, 
although they may rent premises for the purpose of self employment
 the total value of the equipment they use in their business is no more than £5000, and
 they have no employees.

I meet all of those criteria (see accountant's letter). I do not own any property in the UK or elsewhere, do not have any equipment nor employees.

Have a good Easter and please don't hesitate to contact me should you require any further information, Rose X, (my phone #) P.S If you are able to give me an estimate as to when I will have an answer I would be most grateful.
-------------------

I feel it's a good sign that I've got that email, just wondering if anyone knows what she means be 'signpost the evidence' that I've 'already provided'? Or has any suggestions about how I go about proving that I don't have any property/equipment/employees. 

One final thing- it won't matter that in the hospital where I work there is well over £5000 of equipment will it? 

Thanks in advance, Rose


----------



## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

Generally speaking additional informations & letters should be posted to your ECO, not e-mailed. Hard to say how long an e-mail would take to reach a specific person from a general mailing address or if it would reach them at all. If you've now responded to her actual e-mail she will have received it, but I don't believe that they can accept additional information via e-mail. 

Your ECO is basically asking you to confirm that you meet this criteria, and in doing so, asks you to provide any additional proof of that as well as highlighting anything you may have already submitted to further this proof. 

As for exact advice regarding this situation, best to wait until someone with more experience comes along. Best you can do in the meantime is gather as much hard evidence as you can to show that you meet the criteria.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

A letter from where you carry out your self-employment (veterinary hospital) should be sufficient. Ask them to state that you work on their premises, that you don't own equipment worth more than £5000 (just stating you use equipment provided by the hospital should do) and that you work on your own without hired staff.


----------

