# Denied Fiance Visa, would like to get married in US then reapply for spouse visa...



## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Since I know we will be refused a fiance visa due to applying in the wrong category, we have to start this process over again. I have a few questions that I'm hoping this forum can help with.

1. Can my fiance now come to the US for us to get married without him getting a visa? He will go be back to the UK shortly after our marriage?

2. Then can we apply for a spouse visa for me to go to the UK?

3. Will I be able to use my savings and pension toward the financial requirements along with his?

4. I officially retire November 1. Won't have my first pension pay until Dec 1. I read you need to have at least one payment 28 days before you apply for the visa. Will I have to wait until Dec 1 to apply, is this correct? 

5. Can I use my earning from the last 12 months as well?

6. Before I apply will I be able to make a visit to the UK still for a two week period before I retire or will I be denied entry since I was denied a fiance visa?

Thank you!


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

Freetofly said:


> Since I know we will be refused a fiance visa due to applying in the wrong category, we have to start this process over again. I have a few questions that I'm hoping this forum can help with.


1. Can my fiance now come to the US for us to get married without him getting a visa? He will go be back to the UK shortly after our marriage?

He doesn't need any special visa. Check your state requirements for obtaining a marriage license. Usually, he just needs to bring his driver's license and passport for ID. If he was married before, he will need a copy of his divorce decree.



> 2. Then can we apply for a spouse visa for me to go to the UK?


You can apply as soon as you have a copy of your marriage certificate. The process is similar to fiance visa. He will need to meet financial requirement, provide appropriate accommodation, and you will have to prove your relationship history.



> 3. Will I be able to use my savings and pension toward the financial requirements along with his?


No, only his income counts for the initial visa. He has to have an income of at least 18,600 pounds per year pre-tax.




> 4. I officially retire November 1. Won't have my first pension pay until Dec 1. I read you need to have at least one payment 28 days before you apply for the visa. Will I have to wait until Dec 1 to apply, is this correct?


This doesn't matter as only your husband's income will be counted.


> 5. Can I use my earning from the last 12 months as well?


No



> 6. Before I apply will I be able to make a visit to the UK still for a two week period before I retire or will I be denied entry since I was denied a fiance visa?


Depends on whether you want to wait to apply for your spouse visa or not. If you apply immediately after the wedding, you have to send your passport so won't be able to travel. If you are considering travel prior to getting married and applying, you will have to prove extremely strong ties to the US that will prove your intent to return. Otherwise, you could be turned away at the border and sent back to US immediately. You could try to apply for a tourist visa in advance to provide proof and avoid the issue, but you would still face the possibility of refusal.



> [Thank you!


You're welcome!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Freetofly said:


> Since I know we will be refused a fiance visa due to applying in the wrong category, we have to start this process over again. I have a few questions that I'm hoping this forum can help with.
> 
> 1. Can my fiance now come to the US for us to get married without him getting a visa? He will go be back to the UK shortly after our marriage?


Since you are not intending to live in the US, he does not need a visa. It is fine to marry in the US on a visit visa. Of course he'll have to get ESTA.



> 2. Then can we apply for a spouse visa for me to go to the UK?


Yes, as soon as you meet the financial requirement and have all your other documents you can apply.



> 3. Will I be able to use my savings and pension toward the financial requirements along with his?


Yes, savings and pension of both the sponsor and the applicant can be used to meet the financial requirement. Remember that there is a base of amount of £16,000 in savings and any shortfall from earnings or pension is calculated at the shortfall times 2.5 which is then added to £16,000 to come up with the amount needed.



> 4. I officially retire November 1. Won't have my first pension pay until Dec 1. I read you need to have at least one payment 28 days before you apply for the visa. Will I have to wait until Dec 1 to apply, is this correct?


Yes.



> 5. Can I use my earning from the last 12 months as well?


No. The applicants earnings cannot be used unless they are already in the UK on a visa which allows them to work. As you are in the US, your earnings cannot be used.



> 6. Before I apply will I be able to make a visit to the UK still for a two week period before I retire or will I be denied entry since I was denied a fiance visa?


If you've been refused a visa it's a good idea to apply in advance for a visit visa.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Water Dragon said:


> You're welcome!


I thought the applicants pension could be used


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Hertsfem said:


> I thought the applicants pension could be used


It can. As can the applicant's savings.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thankyou Nyclon. I thought I was seeing things lol


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Water Dragon said:


> No, only his income counts for the initial visa. He has to have an income of at least 18,600 pounds per year pre-tax.
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't matter as only your husband's income will be counted.


This is incorrect. There are several different ways to meet the financial requirement. The sponsor earning £18,600/year is one of them. Other ways include using the savings and pension of one or BOTH the sponsor and the applicant.

See FM 1.7 Section 7 regarding savings and Section 8 regarding pensions.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...337420/Annex_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

nyclon said:


> Since you are not intending to live in the US, he does not need a visa. It is fine to marry in the US on a visit visa. Of course he'll have to get ESTA.



What is ESTA? 

So he can not come to the US for a few weeks without a visa.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Any one who is not a US citizen who wishes to enter the US needs ESTA:

https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

nyclon said:


> Any one who is not a US citizen who wishes to enter the US needs ESTA:
> 
> https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/


Okay this is great information. Brings down the stress level quite a bit. 


Many thanks Nyclon!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ESTA is for those who qualify for visa waiver. Others need a US visa obtained in advance from US embassy/consulate but don't need ESTA.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

nyclon said:


> This is incorrect. There are several different ways to meet the financial requirement. The sponsor earning £18,600/year is one of them. Other ways include using the savings and pension of one or BOTH the sponsor and the applicant.
> 
> See FM 1.7 Section 7 regarding savings and Section 8 regarding pensions.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...337420/Annex_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf


I apologize. I was thinking of Category A. Thanks for the correction.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

I received my Passport back with a refusal letter. 

EC-P 1.1(c) Requirements met.
EC-P 1.1(d) Refusal under paragraph EC-P1.1(d) appendix FM (E-ECP 2.6 and 2.10)
Plus (E-ECP 2.8) stating you have not provided wedding plans. 

This was a little upsetting, as how can you plan anything if you don't get an approval first. You have to wait 8 days before you can even apply to get married and then have to wait 15 days for it to be allowed to take place. 
I didnt' realize I would need photos and letters from friends to show genuine and subsisting relationship. 
Plus we have a letter from the landlord saying that she knows me well and approves that I can live with my partner in the flat.

Next was what I expected: He is on ESA not DLA so that I understand, but what was interesting they did include my savings, not my pension as I have not retired yet. 

They also sent a form for an appeal. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I was wondering if I could get some kind of legal document from my work, saying my pension is guaranteed once I retire. 
I'm very concerned if I retire and I don't get a visa, I'm out of a really good job. 

Any advice on these issue would be greatly appreciated.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

He is coming to the US and we will marry here. 
Then apply under spouse with me retiring a month earlier to show payment into my bank account 28 days before submitting the application.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

nyclon said:


> This is incorrect. There are several different ways to meet the financial requirement. The sponsor earning £18,600/year is one of them. Other ways include using the savings and pension of one or BOTH the sponsor and the applicant.
> 
> See FM 1.7 Section 7 regarding savings and Section 8 regarding pensions.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...337420/Annex_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf


My Fiancee is coming in two weeks to the USA and we will be married. My family is really happy, 'saving a trip to England'. 

I looked at the website and can't figure out what forms we need to fill out next and is the application for only 6 months then I will have to reapply? I'm so confused. 

We are an older couple and have known each other since Nov 2011. I want to make sure I do this right this time. We are going to use my pension and savings. If I retired Oct 1 I will have my first payment Nov 1. Will this be sufficient for the application. I also will receive a lump sum and I'm not sure where or how to show this. Should I move to my 401K?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Referring to your refusal, you show you have made wedding plans by booking a provisional date with the register along with receipts for deposits for other normal wedding things.

The application for a spouse visa is the same as for the fiance visa. You fill out form VA4FA on-line and download, print and fill out Appendix 2 by hand. If your 1st pension payment is November 1st then you can apply November 29th or after. I don't think your lump sum payment can be counted unless you hold it for 6 months.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

nyclon said:


> Referring to your refusal, you show you have made wedding plans by booking a provisional date with the register along with receipts for deposits for other normal wedding things.
> 
> The application for a spouse visa is the same as for the fiance visa. You fill out form VA4FA on-line and download, print and fill out Appendix 2 by hand. If your 1st pension payment is November 1st then you can apply November 29th or after. I don't think your lump sum payment can be counted unless you hold it for 6 months.


Will we be able to use his ESA as income as well?

What categories would we be able to use then?
His ESA income
My pension 
My 401K minus the lump sum. We won't have to count that if we can use his ESA. 

I can't sleep...


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Freetofly said:


> Will we be able to use his ESA as income as well? What categories would we be able to use then? His ESA income My pension My 401K minus the lump sum. We won't have to count that if we can use his ESA. I can't sleep...


You can only use ESA when applying under adequate maintenance. If your pension and current savings aren't enough you'll have wait until you hold your lump sum payment for 6 months before you can apply.


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## mandak (May 7, 2013)

If your spouse is not exempt from the income threshold then he needs to earn 18,600 if he doesn't he needs to have savings. You can't use his ESA income to count towards anything if he isn't exempt.
If your husband is not working then you need £62,500 in savings, either he you or both can have the savings in your account 6 months before applying.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

Can Social Security payments be used if they are the applicant's?


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## mandak (May 7, 2013)

Pallykin said:


> Can Social Security payments be used if they are the applicant's?


Only if the british spouse is exempt from the income threshold, otherwise no.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

mandak said:


> Only if the british spouse is exempt from the income threshold, otherwise no.


This is incorrect. Pensions can be combined with Category A, B, C and D and Social Security is a form of pension.


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## mandak (May 7, 2013)

nyclon said:


> This is incorrect. Pensions can be combined with Category A, B, C and D and Social Security is a form of pension.


Yes pensions are counted ... I think the asker wasn't referring to pensions though as it's already been confirmed on this thread, pensions are counted.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

mandak said:


> Yes pensions are counted ... I think the asker wasn't referring to pensions though as it's already been confirmed on this thread, pensions are counted.


Pallykin asked if social security could be used and you said not unless you are applying as exempt which is completely wrong.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

nyclon said:


> You can only use ESA when applying under adequate maintenance. If your pension and current savings aren't enough you'll have wait until you hold your lump sum payment for 6 months before you can apply.


We are married now and will apply under spouse visa after I retire. My work has informed me that if I stay until Jan 1, I will be able to take all of my pensions (2) and roll them into one, where-ever I want, like my 401K. 
I can't find anything on the UK website that says that a 401K is excepted as a savings. 
So I'm worried I will have to pay the tax and penalty of 10% and place it in a money market. 

Do you know if the 401K is considered? 

Also applying for a 3 month vistor visa after I retire in Jan.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> We are married now and will apply under spouse visa after I retire. My work has informed me that if I stay until Jan 1, I will be able to take all of my pensions (2) and roll them into one, where-ever I want, like my 401K.
> I can't find anything on the UK website that says that a 401K is excepted as a savings.
> So I'm worried I will have to pay the tax and penalty of 10% and place it in a money market.
> 
> ...


It does say that a 401k is acceptable deep in the financial requirements document. It has to be held as cash at the time of application within the 401k account, not as in investments such as mutual funds.

Don't move the money out of the 401k, as you would be liable for taxes in addition to the penalty.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Pallykin said:


> It does say that a 401k is acceptable deep in the financial requirements document. It has to be held as cash at the time of application within the 401k account, not as in investments such as mutual funds.
> 
> Don't move the money out of the 401k, as you would be liable for taxes in addition to the penalty.



Once I move it from investments to cash in the 401K, will this mean I wait for the 6months, then send in the application?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Yes, this is my understanding...


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

From FM 1.7:

7.4.4. For example, in the UK a ‘stocks and shares’ Individual Savings Account (ISA) does meet the definition of a savings account and the funds can be considered as cash savings if all the requirements above are met. Likewise, a pension savings account from which savings can be immediately withdrawn (like the 401K in the US).

If you cash out your investment and hold it as cash you will not have to hold it for 6 months as long as you have had your 401K for at least 6 months.

Read through Section 7 of FM 1.7:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...337420/Annex_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Nyclon


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> Once I move it from investments to cash in the 401K, will this mean I wait for the 6months, then send in the application?


No, it just needs to be in the form of cash at the time of application, and you need at least one statement showing it as cash. I was reviewing this for my own visa yesterday. It's in the financial documentation. I will look for it and post the link when I am home.

In my case, I'm using a Rollover IRA which has the proceeds of several 401ks from prior employers. The money was added to the account when it was opened in 2006 and again in 2012. I've had the first statement and the one in 2012 when the majority of the funds were deposited sent via post, and I've requested a letter from the investment company outlining the source of the funds. I've been collecting posted original statements for a while now. I will sell my investments a month or two before we apply, and so have one or two statements showing the holdings as cash.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Pallykin said:


> No, it just needs to be in the form of cash at the time of application, and you need at least one statement showing it as cash. I was reviewing this for my own visa yesterday. It's in the financial documentation. I will look for it and post the link when I am home.
> 
> In my case, I'm using a Rollover IRA which has the proceeds of several 401ks from prior employers. The money was added to the account when it was opened in 2006 and again in 2012. I've had the first statement and the one in 2012 when the majority of the funds were deposited sent via post, and I've requested a letter from the investment company outlining the source of the funds. I've been collecting posted original statements for a while now. I will sell my investments a month or two before we apply, and so have one or two statements showing the holdings as cash.


This is staring to make sense now. I did find the information you guys provided about the 401K in the FM 1.7, (7.4.4). 
I have two pensions to combine into one, once I'm officially retired. Should I keep all the information on how long I have held these and the information of when they are rolled over into the 401K cash savings account. Should I make this apart of my application?


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> This is staring to make sense now. I did find the information you guys provided about the 401K in the FM 1.7, (7.4.4).
> I have two pensions to combine into one, once I'm officially retired. Should I keep all the information on how long I have held these and the information of when they are rolled over into the 401K cash savings account. Should I make this apart of my application?


Yes, you need to show you've held the money in the same account for six months at also show or explain the source of the money. Would you be rolling them over into an IRA? Once you do this, the six month clock will start. Does taking the pension as a lump sum cost you in earnings over the long haul?

You should keep all the information on the source and movement of the money in the form of original paper statements if at all possible. My account is with Fidelity, and the statements they sent that are from years ago look exactly like the current ones. I would hope that other investment companies offer this service (for free).

Congratulations on your marriage. Step one in an exciting and fun journey!


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Pallykin said:


> Yes, you need to show you've held the money in the same account for six months at also show or explain the source of the money. Would you be rolling them over into an IRA? Once you do this, the six month clock will start. Does taking the pension as a lump sum cost you in earnings over the long haul?
> 
> You should keep all the information on the source and movement of the money in the form of original paper statements if at all possible. My account is with Fidelity, and the statements they sent that are from years ago look exactly like the current ones. I would hope that other investment companies offer this service (for free).
> 
> Congratulations on your marriage. Step one in an exciting and fun journey!


I will be rolling over into a tradional IRA. The pension has been frozen since 2006, so rolling over will increase my earnings. 
Thank you for all your help. 
My next step will be to apply for a vistors visit for a 3 to 4 month stay after I retire. We will prepare the spouse application once I return to the USA. 
It is a slow process for us, but it's worth it completely.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> I will be rolling over into a tradional IRA. The pension has been frozen since 2006, so rolling over will increase my earnings.
> Thank you for all your help.
> My next step will be to apply for a vistors visit for a 3 to 4 month stay after I retire. We will prepare the spouse application once I return to the USA.
> It is a slow process for us, but it's worth it completely.


lane:
The process is moving along. Pension will be officially in new savings account Jan 30, 2015. Will reapply beginning of August, phew, such a long time.

I received my updated passport this week with my married name and it is good for another 10 years. 

Set to go to England 1st week of February for the six months and then back to the states to apply for a spouse visa. :fingerscrossed:

I will be back with updates.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> lane:
> The process is moving along. Pension will be officially in new savings account Jan 30, 2015. Will reapply beginning of August, phew, such a long time.
> 
> I received my updated passport this week with my married name and it is good for another 10 years.
> ...


It is the 31st of October and we are starting the process of pulling photos, emails, skype messages and calls together. My husband is coming back in December through January for a visit in the USA. I will then apply for the visitor visa with our lawyers help. 

I need help with finding short term health insurance for the UK. I want to have aleast 12months of coverage. Does anyone know a reliable company?


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> It is the 31st of October and we are starting the process of pulling photos, emails, skype messages and calls together. My husband is coming back in December through January for a visit in the USA. I will then apply for the visitor visa with our lawyers help.
> 
> I need help with finding short term health insurance for the UK. I want to have aleast 12months of coverage. Does anyone know a reliable company?


It is January 23, 2015, and I have retired from my job of 31 years December 31, 2014. I will move my pension into an IRA saving account on January 31, 2015 when I receive my pension check.

I have applied for a visitor's visa this week and do my biometric Feb 2 with enough in my savings account to cover my visit. Should hear with in two to three weeks on my 6 month visitors visa. Then can apply for spouse visa.

I have found good health insurance that will cover me anywhere in this world for 1 years. The cost is 7,500.00 US dollars, it includes vision and dental. The co-pay is ok for what coverage I will have. Note: better than what the US can provide.

My husband was here in the USA for 5 weeks with me, it was great to be with him 24/7. 

I'm so nervous about this visa until I'm able to apply for my spouse visa. It's been a very delicate situation, since we are both applying in the saving category, since we are both retired now. I do hope to be able to work again in the future, since my field is in shortage, but not listed on the UK website. 

Hope to see my visitors visa by Feb 14. Pushing forward and being relentless. 
:boxing: Not giving up!!!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Just make sure you have plenty of evidence that you NEED to return to the US at the end of your visitor visa period. Return ticket, home in US, commitments etc.

With hubby in the UK and you now retiring you don't want the authorities to think you have no reason to return to the US.

Good luck


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Crawford said:


> Just make sure you have plenty of evidence that you NEED to return to the US at the end of your visitor visa period. Return ticket, home in US, commitments etc.
> 
> With hubby in the UK and you now retiring you don't want the authorities to think you have no reason to return to the US.
> 
> Good luck


Thank you Crawford for the information, Joppa had told me as well. 

Everybody on this forum has been great!


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Crawford said:


> Just make sure you have plenty of evidence that you NEED to return to the US at the end of your visitor visa period. Return ticket, home in US, commitments etc.
> 
> With hubby in the UK and you now retiring you don't want the authorities to think you have no reason to return to the US.
> 
> Good luck


Visitors visa application sent and received on February 4th. Now we wait...:fingerscrossed:

It was insanely hard to make the bank understand how important it was to have all pages stamped. I'm totally exhausted, mentally and physically from the stress of making sure everything is in perfect order. Thanks to all that have helped with important information. Next will apply for the spouse visa August 1, that's if I obtain the visitors visa first. 

I hope to have good news in the next couple of weeks.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> Visitors visa application sent and received on February 4th. Now we wait...:fingerscrossed:
> 
> It was insanely hard to make the bank understand how important it was to have all pages stamped. I'm totally exhausted, mentally and physically from the stress of making sure everything is in perfect order. Thanks to all that have helped with important information. Next will apply for the spouse visa August 1, that's if I obtain the visitors visa first.
> 
> I hope to have good news in the next couple of weeks.


Received an email that said my visa is being sent on February 19. I received it the next day before 10am. I grabbed a flight that day and arrived in England the 21st. 

Border guard was great and asked only a few questions. First one was do I have a return flight, which I showed him. Thank you everyone that has provided proper direction for my visitors visa!! 
Next we start the spouse visa.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

It's time to apply for the spouse visa. I have all the documents needed except for the bank stamps. 
I go back to the USA to submit and get my biometrics complete.

In the mean time, the landlord gave a letter today that the rent will be going up, double since I will be living there once I get my spouse visa. 

I don't know how this all works, since my husband receives housing benefits because of disablilty. 
Will he loose his benefits when I move in. We already notified the council that I was here on a visitor visa. They responded that no action is necessary at this point. Notify them when I receive my spouse visa. 

Will leave to go to USA in a few more weeks. These 6months flew by...
So nervous about all this, it's so expensive with the extra you have to pay to the NHS, regardless that I have good health insurance.


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## Freetofly (Jul 10, 2014)

Freetofly said:


> It's time to apply for the spouse visa. I have all the documents needed except for the bank stamps.
> I go back to the USA to submit and get my biometrics complete.


Back in the U.S. to summit the application and to have my biometrics completed. Husband came along with me. We are so pleased we can travel back to the UK together. 

Sent the application to Sheffield August 10, received my visa August 26.

We applied in the savings category which we used my retirement pension. I had to provide the documents that proved where the retirement pension was held before I retired and a letter from my employer saying how much and when it was released. I rolled it over into an IRA, needed a statement from the bank with 6 months of stamped statements. 
That's all we provided on the financial side of it. Visa expires June 2018, and I need to be in the UK by Oct 11, according to the visa. 


Country applying from: USA
Type of visa applied for: Spouse Visa (Priority)
Immigration Lawyer: Yes
Category: Savings
Date application submitted (online): 17 JUL 2015
Date biometrics taken: 10 Aug 2015
Date documents sent: 10 Aug 2015
Date documentation was received by UKVI Sheffield: 12 Aug 2015
Email confirming receipt of documents:12 Aug 2015
Office location processing your visa: Sheffield
Projected timeline given: 12 weeks
Date decision has been made email: August 24th...
Date your visa was received: August 26th


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## Travelling Surfer83 (Oct 28, 2014)

Which category did you get your refusal in the first instance?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If you read the whole thread, the poster has given the reason.


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## Travelling Surfer83 (Oct 28, 2014)

Sorry, maybe i worded that badly. I understand it was as a fiancé but must have missed how they applied. Was also unsure of the refusal codes. It also doesn't help I'm trying to do this on my phone, apologies!


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