# Question about FATCA reporting for bank account



## Djuk

Hi all
Maybe a strange question but i am a bit puzzled.
I am green card holder in the US. I am from the UK. Been here about 4 years now.

I recently signed up for a bank account with Ally bank. They send out something called a "Signature card and Certification of TIN for me to sign and confirm my SS number.

It basically states the following:
===============

"FORM W9 TAXPAYER ID NUMBER (TIN) CERTIFICATION
1. The number shown on this form is my correct taxpayer ID, and
2. I am not subject to backup withholdings because i am (a) I am exempt from backup withholding, (b) I have not been notified by the IRS... and
3. I am a us citizen or US resident, and
4 I am exempt from Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act reporting

You must cross out item 2 above if you have been notified by the IRS that you are subject to backup withholdings."

=============
I understand all the questions apart from 4. It baffles me a little. 1,2 and 3 are all fine to sign to, but I am not sure if i am "exempt" from FATCA reporting. 

The bank says if it does not get this signature it will withhold 28% of any interest made.

I do have a foreign bank account but is has less than $200 in it. So i know i dont have to fill out the whole FACTA/FBAR forms this coming tax return. However, i dont see how i am "EXEMPT" from reporting, i read exempt as being told explicitly by the IRS you have been exempted from reporting.

Any advice on where i stand with regards to line 4?
thanks in advance.

DJ

p.s sorry if this is just a stupid question but i have already been through enough in the past with making a mistake and having to back file fbars in the past, (thats all clear now) i dont want to make any further little mistakes


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## BBCWatcher

Only slightly stupid.  (Just kidding!)

You just have to read the form more carefully. Here's what IRS Form W-9 actually says: "Part II. Certification. Under penalties of perjury, I certify that: [....] 4. The FATCA code(s) entered on this form (if any) indicating that I am exempt from FATCA reporting is correct."

You are not exempt from FATCA reporting, hence you are not entering any "FATCA code(s)" on the form (near the top right of the form, in section 4). (Individuals are never exempt from FATCA reporting and don't have exemption codes.) Since you are not entering any FATCA code(s) on the form, #4 does not apply to you ("if any"). If you _had_ entered code(s), because you represent an organization exempt from FATCA reporting, you would have to certify under penalties of perjury that the code(s) you entered are correct.

Always read every word and, absent compelling evidence, give every word you read at least some weight. The words "if any" have meaning here. And it helps if you quote the form exactly (not "basically") when asking about it. 

Does all that make sense?


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## Djuk

hi BBCwatcher, first off let me thank you for your response and your time, it is much appreciated.

I do know exactly what you are saying in your comment, and it very much makes perfect sense. 
But let me clarify that the words I quoted are pretty much exact to what was given to me. 

You see, the form the bank sent appears to be copied and then slightly re-worded from the w9 form. 

They never sent me the IRS W9 form, itself, just that paragraph of text i originally wrote. At no point does it mention anything of "FATCA codes" or anything about "(If any)" statements. Just simply the text I wrote you is all that it contained, nothing more!

So that's why i was baffled, because all it asks is for me to sign it, and I was worried if i sign it; i am stating that (line 4) "I am exempt from Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act reporting"
Which as you state, no individual is.
Do you see my dilemma

I am curious to how others would handle it in my situation.
When I called the bank they basically told me they cannot advise me on my tax issues.

Thanks Again

DJ


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## BBCWatcher

OK, understood. In that case, just send them the IRS's Form W-9 assuming you feel comfortable filling out and signing the genuine original. Page 2 of IRS Form W-9 says "....you must use the requester's form if it is substantially similar to this Form W-9." Your bank's form is materially different, so this is your "out" clause in the unlikely event your bank complains.

If you'd like to notify their legal department of their transcription error -- it is their error -- you can. That'd be a nice thing to do to save other customers from confusion if you're in a charitable mood, but of course that's optional.

I suppose it's possible the bank has two or more versions of this form, and they simply sent you the wrong bank form (their form for FATCA exempt organizations). But my guess is they just materially screwed up the transcription when they created their own form. Financial institutions are allowed to create their own forms of W-9 (as the IRS implies), but they're supposed to do it right. A common reason they do is for electronic collection purposes, to have you "sign" an electronic version of the W-9 form via their online banking system.

Kudos for reading what you're signing before signing it! A lot of people don't do that.


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## iota2014

Djuk said:


> They never sent me the IRS W9 form, itself, just that paragraph of text i originally wrote. At no point does it mention anything of "FATCA codes" or anything about "(If any)" statements. Just simply the text I wrote you is all that it contained, nothing more!
> 
> So that's why i was baffled, because all it asks is for me to sign it, and I was worried if i sign it; i am stating that (line 4) "I am exempt from Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act reporting"
> Which as you state, no individual is.
> Do you see my dilemma
> 
> I am curious to how others would handle it in my situation.
> When I called the bank they basically told me they cannot advise me on my tax issues.
> 
> Thanks Again
> 
> DJ


Do you really want to sign up with a bank that asks you to sign claiming FATCA exemption, and then can't or won't answer your questions as to why? A quick google shows you're not the first to raise this question about the Ally bank form. It's probably just incompetence but it could have consequences.

If you send in the official form instead, that will obviously satisfy the IRS requirements, but unless the bank's own processing is specifically set up to accept EITHER the bank's own form OR the real W9, your account might just get auto-ticked as "did not provide required form".


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## Djuk

BBCWatcher said:


> OK, understood. In that case, just send them the IRS's Form W-9 assuming you feel comfortable filling out and signing the genuine original. Page 2 of IRS Form W-9 says "....you must use the requester's form if it is substantially similar to this Form W-9." Your bank's form is materially different, so this is your "out" clause in the unlikely event your bank complains.
> 
> If you'd like to notify their legal department of their transcription error -- it is their error -- you can. That'd be a nice thing to do to save other customers from confusion if you're in a charitable mood, but of course that's optional.
> 
> I suppose it's possible the bank has two or more versions of this form, and they simply sent you the wrong bank form (their form for FATCA exempt organizations). But my guess is they just materially screwed up the transcription when they created their own form. Financial institutions are allowed to create their own forms of W-9 (as the IRS implies), but they're supposed to do it right. A common reason they do is for electronic collection purposes, to have you "sign" an electronic version of the W-9 form via their online banking system.
> 
> Kudos for reading what you're signing before signing it! A lot of people don't do that.


Thanks again BBC.
You have helped clear it up, i thought I was going insane with not understand what they wrote for line 4, but as you say they have clearly ripped the line from the official w9 form and done a terrible job interpreting it into short hand.

Next time i talk to them on the phone i will see if they will let me talk to legal, but I know they will be reluctant. In any case, their form will be returned with my writing and crossing out all over it and possibly also with the official w9 form.

All the best and enjoy your xmas!

DJ


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## Djuk

iota2014 said:


> Do you really want to sign up with a bank that asks you to sign claiming FATCA exemption, and then can't or won't answer your questions as to why? A quick google shows you're not the first to raise this question about the Ally bank form. It's probably just incompetence but it could have consequences.
> 
> If you send in the official form instead, that will obviously satisfy the IRS requirements, but unless the bank's own processing is specifically set up to accept EITHER the bank's own form OR the real W9, your account might just get auto-ticked as "did not provide required form".


Hi Iota.

You make a fair point about the bank, but to be honest with you, it seems all banks have their problems, if its not this it would be something else with another bank.

I think i am going to take the form they sent, write all over it with crossing stuff out etc and explanations, and possibly send the real W-9 form along side.

thank you also for your input, it is much appreciated
enjoy your holidays

DJ


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