# moving to Portugal



## kasza13 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi
My name is Karen and my partner (Paul)and I are seriosly thinking about moving to Portugal, we are flying out on March 31st to look at properties to buy and renovate one for living and others to make a living from, is this a viable move?or is everyone doing it? We are being drawn to the silver coast, has anyone got any advice for us?
Thanks:clap2:


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

kasza13 said:


> Hi
> My name is Karen and my partner (Paul)and I are seriosly thinking about moving to Portugal, we are flying out on March 31st to look at properties to buy and renovate one for living and others to make a living from, :clap2:


Depends on what you mean make a living from, if it is going to be your main source of income then NO, is everyone doing it nearly, do a search online for holiday rentals for your chosen area, then add a percentage on for the locally and non web advertised, be realistic about occupancy, if you want to be legal you need a licence, it's becoming dangerous not to be licenced, you need to declare income, there is a lot more to it.


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## kasza13 (Mar 3, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Depends on what you mean make a living from, if it is going to be your main source of income then NO, is everyone doing it nearly, do a search online for holiday rentals for your chosen area, then add a percentage on for the locally and non web advertised, be realistic about occupancy, if you want to be legal you need a licence, it's becoming dangerous not to be licenced, you need to declare income, there is a lot more to it.


Hi 
Thank you for your reply we will be looking into it, not sure if we will be doing rentals or renovations or both lol, we are looking for the ideal business oppertunity, no doubt like everyone else, if you have any ideas you think may help us please feel free to post them. 
Many Thanks again Karen & Paul


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

Dear Karen and Paul,
As canoeman says it is a lot more complex than just turning up and buying two houses, but I guess you knew that already.
You need to be selective on area, the area that you want to live in may not be attractive to the renters and vice versa.
I would suggest buying for yourself something comfortable with little work required and for the rental, something in the city, workers always need to live somewhere.
If I can help you at all, please drop me a pm, you will need to post 5 times before this option becomes available to you.


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## omostra06 (Sep 11, 2007)

i know plenty of people who make a good living both ways, renting or renovating and selling on, I also know some people who have tried both and failed at it, a lot depends on your skills\ experiance and where you choose to buy the rental and the renovation. as this will have a bearing on how many clients want to rent and who if anyone wants to buy.
a lot of peole wrongly belive that buying a property anywhere will work, they say "with the right marketing people will come" its just not true, if like others you get tempted by the really low prices of inland, remote property, then just be careful as its hard to rent property in these locations, many expats have tried and failed, if you look at websites you will see plenty of guest house, b&b type properties inland owned by expats up for sale. if your thinking of buying to rent away from the coast, then make sure its near one of the poular towns or lakes, to give you year round rental that does not just rely on the short tourist season that you get on the coast.

if your looking at buying to renovate and sell on, then there is a lot to look at to get it right, not just buying in a desirable location, that will get you a quick sale and good price, but buying at the right price, avoiding planning if you can, and getting the right builder for the job, at the right price.


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## kasza13 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi
Thank you all for your replies, we have found them very useful as Im sure you have guessed we are complete novices lol, we are due to visit a few options to buy inc a couple of B&Bs, and you are right they do seem to be owned by ex-pats, if there is any further help anyone can give us, ie definate areas to avoid for rentals then please let us know.
Many Thanks again
Karen & Paul


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Be realistic, it's very easy to see a renovation and think a bit of work, few thousand sell it on.
It's not quite as east to do renovations as UK, you need to be very certain what you could do yourself and what you would have to use a registered builder, elecrician etc for.
Sell on, markets slow here as elswehere in EU, Portuguese generally don't want renovations, they want modern and new, a lot have second inherited homes already.
B&Bs are they licenced have they accounts you can see, the days of not having a licence and not declaring income are quickly coming to an end.


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## omostra06 (Sep 11, 2007)

kasza13 said:


> Hi
> Thank you all for your replies, we have found them very useful as Im sure you have guessed we are complete novices lol, we are due to visit a few options to buy inc a couple of B&Bs, and you are right they do seem to be owned by ex-pats, if there is any further help anyone can give us, ie definate areas to avoid for rentals then please let us know.
> Many Thanks again
> Karen & Paul



Hi Karen & Paul
I would suggest that you make sure you are near (15 mins) from a tourist attraction, this could be a beach resort, a historic town, a lake (watersports) somewhere where people actually go for their holidays and want to visit, if your too far or your in a place where there is nothing to attract clients then it will be a real struggle to make it work.
also less than one and a half hours from the airport, a lot of people dont like to drive much further to get to a holiday house.
think about who your clients will be, overseas (why will they come to your region?) or portuguese, Lisbon has a huge population and they do like to get away for holidays and weekends, a lot of expats forget about this huge client base and only advertise to attract overseas clients! when they have so many on their doorstep but choose to dismiss them, and then wonder why no one comes to their B&B
Think about what will make people choose your place over the hundreds of others they have to pick from, will you have lots of resturants, bars, shops, attractions etc, to keep your guests busy, and to make them pick your place in the first case.

Dont be misslead into beliving that people like to be away from it all, in the middle of nowhere for their relaxing holiday, of course some people do, but most pick a place based on what they can do and see on their holiday and want things to keep them entertained, resturants to try etc.
a lot of the B&b´s and rental properties that dont do well are simply in the wrong location for that type of business.

what regions are you thinking about visiting?


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

Algarve is for the hen and stag party crowd.
Silver coast is for the more mature people, who want a quiet, family based holiday.
Tomar is for the folks who like history and lake attractions.
Porto is for business only.
The North, is too extreme for me. Too wet/dry hot/cold.
Lisbon is for business and shopping.


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## kasza13 (Mar 3, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Be realistic, it's very easy to see a renovation and think a bit of work, few thousand sell it on.
> It's not quite as east to do renovations as UK, you need to be very certain what you could do yourself and what you would have to use a registered builder, elecrician etc for.
> Sell on, markets slow here as elswehere in EU, Portuguese generally don't want renovations, they want modern and new, a lot have second inherited homes already.
> B&Bs are they licenced have they accounts you can see, the days of not having a licence and not declaring income are quickly coming to an end.


Hi
My partner is a maintenance man and can do mostly everything in building and plumbing and his dad is an electrician, so we are pretty self sufficient (hopefully), as for the B&Bs one of them is being quite upfront with their books but another one has so far been reluctant, he may have his own reasons but we have stated that if he is not prepared to show them to us on a date arranged then we wont be bothering to turn up.
We have been told that we can apply to the goverment for a scheme that excludes you from paying taxes for 10 years, is this true?
Thanks again Karen & Paul


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

kasza13 said:


> Hi
> We have been told that we can apply to the goverment for a scheme that excludes you from paying taxes for 10 years, is this true?
> Thanks again Karen & Paul


Well Yes and No. 
Let me explain (to the best of my abilities)
Yes in so far as you can elect for a "habitual residency status" which will allow you to declare all of your foreign earnings in Portugal whereupon they will be zero rated for Portuguese Income Tax (PIT) for a period of 10 years, which is renewable. 
In the event that you do declare these earnings in Portugal you will also need to surrender all assets in your previous domicilied country to avoid the possibility of claw back for not meeting the full exclusion criteria for that previous country.

No, in so far as any earnings that you accrue in Portugal will be subject to PIT in the normal manner.

I hope that makes sense.................what I would urge you to do is to engage the services of an English speaking Portuguese Taxation Accountant as this is a very very complex piece of legislation which *has no certainty of outcome but which may cost many hours and euros to find out. *

Rob


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## kasza13 (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks for that Rob,
I think we understand and we most certainly will be getting as much advice as possible.
Many Thanks again


robc said:


> Well Yes and No.
> Let me explain (to the best of my abilities)
> Yes in so far as you can elect for a "habitual residency status" which will allow you to declare all of your foreign earnings in Portugal whereupon they will be zero rated for Portuguese Income Tax (PIT) for a period of 10 years, which is renewable.
> In the event that you do declare these earnings in Portugal you will also need to surrender all assets in your previous domicilied country to avoid the possibility of claw back for not meeting the full exclusion criteria for that previous country.
> ...


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## cilleanna (Feb 12, 2011)

Know of a nice bar with living accommodation for sale/rent in Tavira. Perhaps this is worth looking at if you would be prepared for this type of work


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

kasza13 said:


> Hi
> My partner is a maintenance man and can do mostly everything in building and plumbing and his dad is an electrician, so we are pretty self sufficient (hopefully), as for the B&Bs one of them is being quite upfront with their books but another one has so far been reluctant, he may have his own reasons but we have stated that if he is not prepared to show them to us on a date arranged then we wont be bothering to turn up.
> We have been told that we can apply to the goverment for a scheme that excludes you from paying taxes for 10 years, is this true?
> Thanks again Karen & Paul


I'm not saying your partner and his father might not be extremely competent tradespeople, but you need to be very certain what type of work they could or could not do on a property especially for B&B or rental accommodation which both require licensing and safety certificates issued by registered tradespeople.
Renovation etc of property is far more complex than UK and an understanding of the various licenses and procedures that can be required is very important and who is entitled to get license and do the work.


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## Flixton (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi Karen and Paul,

Can I suggest a really good book which I have found extremely useful and will answer at least 90% of your questions. It's called "Buying Property in Portugal", by Gabrielle Collinson (2007). Try googling it at Amazon uk

Though a lot has happened since the book was first published (2007) Gabrielle keeps you up to date with a website which will list the areas of the book where there have been developments, ranging from changes in Portuguese law to banking practices. If you like, you could visit the website to see for yourself. Again try googling nativeportugal.

(Sorry the full links I've included in this message have been disallowed, as this is my first posting here)

Buying property in Portugal is an absolute minefield, but I'm sure you'll feel more confident and clued-up with these two really valuable resources. 

I hope this helps you. Portugal is beautiful, but please don't let your dream turn into a nightmare.

Good luck,

Flixton


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