# Stolen boots



## ArabianNights

Firstly, I would like to apologize. Yes. This is another complaint.

If anyone feels like they may be offended by the following post, please stop reading now. This will/may not be good for your health, if you are prone to heart attacks and/or strokes brought on by what could be perceived as 'hatred' towards Egyptians.

These days, I have started leaving my shoes outside the front door, because of the mud/gunk that comes into the house. It seems like the done thing here - there are 2 apartments on my floor, one is a family of husband and wife and their unmarried daughter (about whom I have complained about a lot here, in regards to her screaming - they hadn't moved out, as I thought they would) and the other apartment seems to be just men - I haven't seen a woman there yet. Both leave their shoes outside, which are usually filled with outside gunk.

Anyway, today I decided to go out and I opened my front door to put on my shoes. Two pairs of shoes were there, but the third pair was not! The third pair are Clarkes ankle length boots, which I purchased in the UK, they have a heal of about 2 inches, suede black with straps. Gone. They were very comfy to walk in, even though I am not accustomed to wearing heeled shoes - they are Clarkes, for goodness sakes, very comfortable. I am completely gutted. Now I have a suspect and that suspect is the daughter who lives next door, about whom I have complained about her constant screaming. She knocked on my door yesterday night, asking me for a black jacket. I told her that I do not have a black jacket. She was persistent to the extent that she asked me if she could come in and look inside my wardrobe! I was like NO! End of story. Now, today - my shoes have disappeared and its not the first time I have left my shoes out by my door. 

I spoke to the Bowab about it, he said he will talk to her (whilst warning me not to give her anything - she has also asked me for cash before!). I think he talked to her and just now at 2am she came banging on my door, ringing the bell constantly - I am mad to say the least. She had just come home from a wedding party (for which she wanted a jacket from me  ) So I just had a shouting match with her - her of cause denying she took the shoes (OK, granted there is a chance that she may not have taken the shoes, but a bit of a coincidence, since she asked me for a black jacket the day before) and she continued her rant. I have said that Ill be calling the police, so they can figure out who has taken them. Its not just about the shoes, its about morals. Continuously being robbed from here in Egypt takes the biscuit and having to deal with a _new_ issue day in day out. Unfortunately, this is not the first time I will be experiencing dealing with the Egyptian police, in whom I have no faith. But I want to get to the bottom of this - I need my shoes! 

Is it actually worth going to the police or not? I feel like I want to kick up a fuss, even if its just to _feel_ a bit better after all the crap I have had to deal with in Egypt - is it worth it?


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## aPerfectCircle

ArabianNights said:


> Firstly, I would like to apologize. Yes. This is another complaint.
> 
> If anyone feels like they may be offended by the following post, please stop reading now. This will/may not be good for your health, if you are prone to heart attacks and/or strokes brought on by what could be perceived as 'hatred' towards Egyptians.
> 
> These days, I have started leaving my shoes outside the front door, because of the mud/gunk that comes into the house. It seems like the done thing here - there are 2 apartments on my floor, one is a family of husband and wife and their unmarried daughter (about whom I have complained about a lot here, in regards to her screaming - they hadn't moved out, as I thought they would) and the other apartment seems to be just men - I haven't seen a woman there yet. Both leave their shoes outside, which are usually filled with outside gunk.
> 
> Anyway, today I decided to go out and I opened my front door to put on my shoes. Two pairs of shoes were there, but the third pair was not! The third pair are Clarkes ankle length boots, which I purchased in the UK, they have a heal of about 2 inches, suede black with straps. Gone. They were very comfy to walk in, even though I am not accustomed to wearing heeled shoes - they are Clarkes, for goodness sakes, very comfortable. I am completely gutted. Now I have a suspect and that suspect is the daughter who lives next door, about whom I have complained about her constant screaming. She knocked on my door yesterday night, asking me for a black jacket. I told her that I do not have a black jacket. She was persistent to the extent that she asked me if she could come in and look inside my wardrobe! I was like NO! End of story. Now, today - my shoes have disappeared and its not the first time I have left my shoes out by my door.
> 
> I spoke to the Bowab about it, he said he will talk to her (whilst warning me not to give her anything - she has also asked me for cash before!). I think he talked to her and just now at 2am she came banging on my door, ringing the bell constantly - I am mad to say the least. She had just come home from a wedding party (for which she wanted a jacket from me  ) So I just had a shouting match with her - her of cause denying she took the shoes (OK, granted there is a chance that she may not have taken the shoes, but a bit of a coincidence, since she asked me for a black jacket the day before) and she continued her rant. I have said that Ill be calling the police, so they can figure out who has taken them. Its not just about the shoes, its about morals. Continuously being robbed from here in Egypt takes the biscuit and having to deal with a _new_ issue day in day out. Unfortunately, this is not the first time I will be experiencing dealing with the Egyptian police, in whom I have no faith. But I want to get to the bottom of this - I need my shoes!
> 
> Is it actually worth going to the police or not? I feel like I want to kick up a fuss, even if its just to _feel_ a bit better after all the crap I have had to deal with in Egypt - is it worth it?


Not a very good idea leaving shoes on the front door, for goodness sake they are Clarkes and you left them on your front door. Instead of leaving them on the front door, use a shoes cabinet or something for your own convenience. Just because your neighbors are doing it doesn't mean its right.

OK so now you are thinking of calling The Police for something you lost outside your private property and you left them there deliberately. Again OK lets say that they were stolen from inside your apartment, do you really think with everything going on in Egypt that The Police will call upon CSI to investigate the lose of your precious Clarkes.

I am really sorry for your loss, whoever did this is a really disturbed person but that can't deny that you made a mistake and this time you only have yourself to blame.


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## hhaddad

Definately not a good idea leave anything in a public place it will be nicked.If they pinch shoes from outside the mosque they'r not going to take yours from outside your flat.Wake up and stop complaining when you make a mistake or something goes wrong


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## MaidenScotland

The days of leaving your shoes outside are long gone.. put a newspaper down in your hall floor and put your dirty shoes on that.

Go to the police over stolen shoes? No..you have said before that you think this women has mental health issues.. would you go to the police in the UK about her? 
The police have more to worry about than a pair of shoes.


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## canuck2010

Whomever took your shoes obviously needed them more than you so I'm sure they're enjoying them. Speaking as someone who has had several things stolen, this is how I would look at it. 

I think they have a clarks store at citystars, consider it an opportunity to get a new pair.


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## hhaddad

If you went to the police they'll probably arrest you for enciting theft.


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## Whitedesert

We take our shoes off at the door as well, but the shoe rack is on the inside of the apartment next to the front door...works better that way


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## Lanason

Don't leave anything where it can be pinched - asking for trouble. We have a collection of all our shoes just inside the front door. 

I need to buy a cabinet to keep them tidy. 

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## ArabianNights

hhaddad said:


> If you went to the police they'll probably arrest you for enciting theft.


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## ArabianNights

canuck2010 said:


> Whomever took your shoes obviously needed them more than you so I'm sure they're enjoying them. Speaking as someone who has had several things stolen, this is how I would look at it.
> 
> I think they have a clarks store at citystars, consider it an opportunity to get a new pair.


Probably a nice way to look at it, but this is something that really irritates me. Its the same as what we discussed before in terms of being ripped off. Taking something, that doesn't belong to you, is wrong, plain and simple. Now in the UK or anywhere in the west, there are plenty of poor people including homeless people. Now if they stole something (anything) or even robbed a bank, would you also say the same? Just because someone 'needs' something, it doesn't make stealing right. 

I do not need shoes any more or less then the next person does - everyone needs shoes! Just because I am from the 'west', it isn't suddenly OK to be stolen from, this kind of mentality only encourages things. I have had my Iphone stolen twice - and I am not going to get another one until I get back to the UK, simply because here, the chances are that it will get stolen again.

I understand that people need money here and are poor - there are charities for that to which people donate money/food/clothing etc. Stealing is not the way to provide for oneself - it is wrong. If I want to give to charity, I would do that, but it doesn't mean I want my shoes stolen instead.

Why not give all your belongs, including maybe your house or anything you own, for that matter to some homeless/poor person from a Cairo backstreet? Plus your whole salary? I am sure they need it more then you


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## ArabianNights

aPerfectCircle said:


> CSI to investigate the lose of your precious Clarkes.


Oh if only. I wouldn't mind CSI Miami's Heratio knocking on ma door to investigate who stole my shoes  Oh if only, I'd be a happy bunny  

I don't fancy him, I just think he'll find my shoes


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## hhaddad

Normally here things get stolen when the owners are careless like leave a cell phone on the table when they go to pay the bill in a restaurant for example.Walk in the street with an open handbag etc etc etc . See were I'm going.


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## MaidenScotland

To be honest I could leave shoes outside my door and they wouldn't be taken.. my neighbour put shoes out for the boab to take and they sat there for 3 weeks until I told her to put them in the service lift or on the stairs..


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## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> Probably a nice way to look at it, but this is something that really irritates me. Its the same as what we discussed before in terms of being ripped off. Taking something, that doesn't belong to you, is wrong, plain and simple. Now in the UK or anywhere in the west, there are plenty of poor people including homeless people. Now if they stole something (anything) or even robbed a bank, would you also say the same? Just because someone 'needs' something, it doesn't make stealing right.
> 
> I do not need shoes any more or less then the next person does - everyone needs shoes! Just because I am from the 'west', it isn't suddenly OK to be stolen from, this kind of mentality only encourages things. I have had my Iphone stolen twice - and I am not going to get another one until I get back to the UK, simply because here, the chances are that it will get stolen again.
> 
> I understand that people need money here and are poor - there are charities for that to which people donate money/food/clothing etc. Stealing is not the way to provide for oneself - it is wrong. If I want to give to charity, I would do that, but it doesn't mean I want my shoes stolen instead.
> 
> Why not give all your belongs, including maybe your house or anything you own, for that matter to some homeless/poor person from a Cairo backstreet? Plus your whole salary? I am sure they need it more then you


Would you leave your shoes outside your front door at home.
You are living in a third world country for heavens sake....many extremely poor people there so put your sensible head on and don't invite all of these problems...likewise don't get into these conversations with the locals a Good Morning/Evening is suffice.
I lived there for quite a long time and only items i had stolen was from my front terrace but that was my fault as didn't lock the gate at night.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> The days of leaving your shoes outside are long gone.. put a newspaper down in your hall floor and put your dirty shoes on that.
> 
> Go to the police over stolen shoes? No..you have said before that you think this women has mental health issues.. would you go to the police in the UK about her?
> The police have more to worry about than a pair of shoes.


The main reason why I would want to police it, is to kick up a fuss, probably teach them a lesson. I think her mental issues are spun from the fact that she is well over 25 and not married yet, hence the shouting matches. 

The one I had with her last night involved her calling me names for being 'shameful' enough to tell the Bowab about it (who asked her) and I also retaliated to her and her brother - I called them Hayawaan (animals) they said I was also a hayawan, then I told them that the chicken outside is calling them back to their pen (by this time the chickens outside were cuckooing), they screamed saying that I was the chicken, I told them that if they dont stop screaming and let me sleep then ill have no option but the get my fry pan and hit them across the head with it, to shut them up. They had no answer (shocked maybe), then they started fighting amongst themselves. Quite a scene. After a bit, I told them to move and stop arguing, otherwise I'd plug their mouths with the next felafel I get my hands on and throw the rotton eggs that the shameless guy next door sold me, onto their faces (oh, maybe she could marry him?). They shut up. Finally. I didn't sleep a wink last night and had to come home early from University, cannot concentrate.


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## CatMandoo

ArabianNights said:


> If anyone feels like they may be offended by the following post, please stop reading now. This will/may not be good for your health, if you are prone to heart attacks and/or strokes brought on by what could be perceived as 'hatred' towards Egyptians.


Being the wife of a stroke victim, I find your sarcastic reference to this totally tasteless.


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## ArabianNights

hhaddad said:


> Normally here things get stolen when the owners are careless like leave a cell phone on the table when they go to pay the bill in a restaurant for example.Walk in the street with an open handbag etc etc etc . See were I'm going.


In my building EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE leaves their shoes outside their door. The main reason being that we have very messy construction work going on outside and our shoes get extra extra dirty, to the extent that I wouldnt want to place them on a rack inside the house, because I would have to clean it religiously everyday and its not practical. My shoes didnt look expensive at all - they looked like any other boots/shoes and my flat is positioned in such a way, that other do not pass it to get into their own apartment or elsewhere. I am in a corner and I have a tiny side hall, where my apartment is located - no else needs to even look that way. I think that this and what you are describing are quite different.


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## jojo

ArabianNights said:


> The main reason why I would want to police it, is to kick up a fuss, probably teach them a lesson. I think her mental issues are spun from the fact that she is well over 25 and not married yet, hence the shouting matches.
> 
> The one I had with her last night involved her calling me names for being 'shameful' enough to tell the Bowab about it (who asked her) and I also retaliated to her and her brother - I called them Hayawaan (animals) they said I was also a hayawan, then I told them that the chicken outside is calling them back to their pen (by this time the chickens outside were cuckooing), they screamed saying that I was the chicken, I told them that if they dont stop screaming and let me sleep then ill have no option but the get my fry pan and hit them across the head with it, to shut them up. They had no answer (shocked maybe), then they started fighting amongst themselves. Quite a scene. After a bit, I told them to move and stop arguing, otherwise I'd plug their mouths with the next felafel I get my hands on and throw the rotton eggs that the shameless guy next door sold me, onto their faces (oh, maybe she could marry him?). They shut up. Finally. I didn't sleep a wink last night and had to come home early from University, cannot concentrate.



I havent read all the posts on this thread, but the above sounds terribly childish and unhinged on both sides. Is this conversation for real - chicken, rotten eggs, animals LOL????

Jo xxx


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## ArabianNights

CatMandoo said:


> Being the wife of a stroke victim, I find your sarcastic reference to this totally tasteless.


I'm sorry, next time ill make up an illness, so that no one in the world can get offended 

Being a writer of this post, I find the fact that you find my post sarcastic, totally tasteless. I am offended.


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## ArabianNights

jojo said:


> I havent read all the posts on this thread, but this sounds terribly childish and unhinged on both sides. Is this conversation for real - chicken, rotten eggs, animals LOL????
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes its real and was in the middle of the night. This was beyond childish. This is the type of thing I hear day in, day out from these people, so one has to speak in a way they would understand. Logic and civility would not work with these people. I have tried.


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## hhaddad

I suggest you accept it or perhaps you get kicks out of banging your head against the wall because your in Egypt and they like it or not are Egyptians in their country. They wont change and you'll have to because your in a lose lose situation.


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## hhaddad

Wife just reminded me of what happened to one of her friends(woman living alone) when she complained  about noise from neighbours they came around and threatened her. Then the police came and arrested her and took her to the police station where she found her neighbours one of them bloody and bruised and she was accused (of course no witnesses except the neighbours family. This finished in court and she got 7 days and a fine of 500 l.e.


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## canuck2010

Point being, people are unpredictable in these uncertain times and as a foreigner its not smart to go around accusing people of stealing (even if you're sure they're guilty). Authorities are looking for any excuses to make examples of foreigners meddling in politics. All it takes is one disgruntled person to make a phone call.


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## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> The main reason why I would want to police it, is to kick up a fuss, probably teach them a lesson. I think her mental issues are spun from the fact that she is well over 25 and not married yet, hence the shouting matches.
> 
> The one I had with her last night involved her calling me names for being 'shameful' enough to tell the Bowab about it (who asked her) and I also retaliated to her and her brother - I called them Hayawaan (animals) they said I was also a hayawan, then I told them that the chicken outside is calling them back to their pen (by this time the chickens outside were cuckooing), they screamed saying that I was the chicken, I told them that if they dont stop screaming and let me sleep then ill have no option but the get my fry pan and hit them across the head with it, to shut them up. They had no answer (shocked maybe), then they started fighting amongst themselves. Quite a scene. After a bit, I told them to move and stop arguing, otherwise I'd plug their mouths with the next felafel I get my hands on and throw the rotton eggs that the shameless guy next door sold me, onto their faces (oh, maybe she could marry him?). They shut up. Finally. I didn't sleep a wink last night and had to come home early from University, cannot concentrate.


You are unbelievable....sorry no other words for it.


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## SHendra

I echo in what most the other posters have said in regard to don't leave anything outside your door you wish to keep! This isn't actually a 'Egypt' thing either.. even back home here in the UK I am constantly reminding myself to 'lock' the porch where I keep all my shoes in fear of them going 'walkies' anywhere. Just a general thing .. the days of leaving anything out in the open are gone way before people like you and me were even born! No doubt you grew up with grandparents saying how they could leave the back door open and leave money on the side for the milkman!

With regard to shoes believe it or not there is a market for 'secondhand shoes' in Egypt or at least Alexandria! In Miami alone there is a secondhand shoe shop.. I can not tell you the exact location as I do not know for sure as I think it's more a you need to know someone of someone place! But guess what? They basically sell only BRANDED quality 'secondhand shoes'. I known some people to go in there and pick up what would of been 800LE worth of shoes for just 100-200-300LE and most the time you can not even tell they are 'used'. Now I wonder where do you think these shoes come from?


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## Widget

Sorry Arabian but I'm with everyone else on this one. 
Yes ok people leave their shoes/flipflops outside the front door here, I know my husband's family do it and as far as I know they have never had a problem. I have stopped doing this myself as I got fed up with family members putting on the first pair they see to go to my brother in laws flat downstairs, and I could never find my shoes. So now I don't do it, and therefore it doesn't happen anymore, problem solved.

The street (and I use that term very loosely) that my husband's family home is on in Zagazig is little more than a dirt track, so of course we get crap on our shoes, dust, and when wet mud. Shoes are taken off at the door and if they're not being left outside carried into the house, so no problem with transferring dirt/dust through the house. Like others have said, get a shoe rack, if you really feel the need to have to clean it that often it will take all of five minutes max, a simple brush down with a dustpan brush, job done.

As for your slanging match with the neighbours, sorry but grow up. You sound like a well travelled woman having lived all over the world; really, some of the places you've lived would you even contemplate calling people names like that, I don't think so, so why do it here? I know these people are stressing you out, but I'm sure we all have noisy neighbours, I know I do but I don't go round calling them childish names.

The world, and not just Egypt, is full of opportunists who will fleece you and steal from you given every chance. Stop giving them the chance. Don't leave stuff out if you don't want it to go walkies, don't leave your bag open/unattended, don't even advertised what sort of phone you have. It's just common sense stuff really.

Nuff said, I'm off for a snooze whilst the neighbours are quiet!


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## hhaddad

Her boots and her incomprehensable behaviour and she still thinks the police will help her. I wonder with no offense meant if she wakes up in the morning knowing she's in Egypt or wonderland.


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## ArabianNights

Wow, I just got home from the wedding, to come back to lectures - considering the amount of things that I complain about here in Egypt, and the stuff that I have to go through I am sure that you lot would have done a lot more under the kind of pressure that I have to go through here (daily). As I said before here, speaking with these people in a civil manner doesnt work, since I have tried it. Unfortunately calling each other animals here is normal - I think most of you do not speak or understand Arabic. Calling each other Hayawan here is quite common - I have heard many people around on the street, bus drivers, taxi drivers and other refer to people as hayawan and in fact, a bus driver a few days ago addressed us all as hayawan, when asking if there was anyone else left who hadn't paid their fare. I think most of you live in such ignorance, where things are going on around you, but you do not see it, things are said to you, but you don't understand it. 

I dont think some of you, to be quite frank can survive even a couple of days living the way I do here - I am not complaining about that, but think about it first.


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## ArabianNights

hhaddad said:


> Her boots and her incomprehensable behaviour and she still thinks the police will help her. I wonder with no offense meant if she wakes up in the morning knowing she's in Egypt or wonderland.


Well "she" thinks that this place is more leaning towards "wonderland", then anything else and that too not in the "wonderland" in the good sense.


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## ArabianNights

Just an update, in case anyone is interested. 

There was a big commotion in the building today, for which I was absent (bowab told me) and the landlord of these peoples apartment came and told them to leave. They are being thrown out. The bowab and his wife are so excited, (due to the many problems these people were causing) that they now keeping telling me how much they "love me", because apparently I had a huge role to play in getting them kicked. I have never seen the bowab so happy.

As per the screaming that I hearing right now coming from their apartment, they are moving to Abu Qir

Its very easy too talk and assume things, especially when one is not _living_ it.


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## hhaddad

ArabianNights said:


> Just an update, in case anyone is interested.
> 
> There was a big commotion in the building today, for which I was absent (bowab told me) and the landlord of these peoples apartment came and told them to leave. They are being thrown out. The bowab and his wife are so excited, (due to the many problems these people were causing) that they now keeping telling me how much they "love me", because apparently I had a huge role to play in getting them kicked. I have never seen the bowab so happy.
> 
> As per the screaming that I hearing right now coming from their apartment, they are moving to Abu Qir
> 
> Its very easy too talk and assume things, especially when one is not _living_ it.


You seem to forget that most of us have been here for many years( 30 years myself) and have seen ,lived and heard worse things than those that have happened to you.

Another thing don't be proud you've got rid of them because Egyptians believe strongly in taking revenge.That means that your troubles could only just be starting because it's sure they know that your the main reason they're being kicked out .Also you can find yourself with worse neighbours than you had. In my opinion you won the Battle but not the War.


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## Sonrisa

I did have once a screaming fit with my neihbours becuase I lived in a grond floor and they keept throwing rubbish into my garde, day after day. . Anything, from alight cigarrets endings (whilst my children -then babies- were playing in the garden) to used tissues, to banana peels, empty packets of chipsie, the list was endless. ANd since I had no service it was moi to pick up their ****. 

Well, after my screaming fit, it got worse and the rest of the neighbour joined in hating the foreigner with kids in the ground floor and threw even more junk. 

I had to move out. 

Moral of the story. Get on with your neigbhours or they'll make your stay impossible.

EDIT: They did steal my ridiculously expensive stroller.


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## MaidenScotland

I keep reminding people but think it is worth another reminder... living here as a single women is very different from being in a family unit. I find it hard enough yet I have an embassy support system watching my back. The daily grind and stress can get to you and of course you have no one at home to moan about your rotten day. Plus of course us women are hormonal..
I don't think many of us have not been in the screaming situation I even kicked a youth who had fallen off his bike after riding round and round me whilst I was trying to walk up the road.
Homesick, lonliness. stress are powerful emotions.


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## aPerfectCircle

hhaddad said:


> You seem to forget that most of us have been here for many years( 30 years myself) and have seen ,lived and heard worse things than those that have happened to you.
> 
> Another thing don't be proud you've got rid of them because Egyptians believe strongly in taking revenge.That means that your troubles could only just be starting because it's sure they know that your the main reason they're being kicked out .Also you can find yourself with worse neighbours than you had. In my opinion you won the Battle but not the War.


Lets not get carried away here, after all ArabianNights is living all by herself and no more drama is needed. Obviously she is having a hard time digesting all that is going on around her and she might be exaggerating sometimes but she is just venting it out.


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## hhaddad

aPerfectCircle said:


> Lets not get carried away here, after all ArabianNights is living all by herself and no more drama is needed. Obviously she is having a hard time digesting all that is going on around her and she might be exaggerating sometimes but she is just venting it out.


I'm not getting carried away I'm just warning her what to expect. This is based on others experiences in similar situations and they were Egyptians and the police are no use. As a single foreigner in a flat either a woman or a man they are in a vunerable situation and should be aware of it. Lets not hide reality expose it. An Egyptian calling an Egyptian an animal is accepted, a foreigner calling an Egyptian an animal is treated as a national insult.


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## SHendra

ArabianNights said:


> Wow, I just got home from the wedding, to come back to lectures ..


Arabian said it before I don't think your find anyone against you.. were all pretty much saying the same when it comes to belongings etc because we've all had to do pretty much the same no matter where we was living!

I will say for others to get a bigger picture however and like what Maiden said about her being by herself she also pretty much went blindfolded into Egypt. Alexandria also to be presice. Way I see it also her Uni was of no help either! She's had noone guiding her/advising her of where is suitable for a foreigner to live. Sure living amonst Egyptians is an experience but we all know they vary from area to area. The area I lived in for example I was amonst those who were teachers, doctors, lawyers etc so they were pretty much happy going on with their day to day lives. The area in which Arabian is living however is way way way at the other end of the scale where a large portion of people are living on a day to day wage as in it depends if they've earnt that day if the family going to eat meat or beans! I know that area reasonably well in what's it like and my source for that is I was married to a man from that area and his whole family lives there. 
Tried one time to go visit the family by myself and well I never got there!.. I jumped in first taxi I could grab to get out of the area.. and waited till I could be escorted to where I needed to get to! There are parts of Miami and norther of it that taxi drivers will not even go to!.. Thats saying something isn't it?


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## throknor

dont they cut off body parts in turkey for stealing lol... would drop the crime rate i think


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## Whitedesert

Sonrisa said:


> I did have once a screaming fit with my neihbours becuase I lived in a grond floor and they keept throwing rubbish into my garde, day after day. . Anything, from alight cigarrets endings (whilst my children -then babies- were playing in the garden) to used tissues, to banana peels, empty packets of chipsie, the list was endless. ANd since I had no service it was moi to pick up their ****.
> 
> Well, after my screaming fit, it got worse and the rest of the neighbour joined in hating the foreigner with kids in the ground floor and threw even more junk.
> 
> I had to move out.
> 
> Moral of the story. Get on with your neigbhours or they'll make your stay impossible.
> 
> EDIT: They did steal my ridiculously expensive stroller.


 That happened to me and I moved out. Did not learn anything. Moved into another ground floor apartment with garden in much more expensive block thinking that my new neighbours are different, more cultured, etc. I was wrong. They are not.


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## ArabianNights

hhaddad said:


> You seem to forget that most of us have been here for many years( 30 years myself) and have seen ,lived and heard worse things than those that have happened to you.
> 
> Another thing don't be proud you've got rid of them because Egyptians believe strongly in taking revenge.That means that your troubles could only just be starting because it's sure they know that your the main reason they're being kicked out .Also you can find yourself with worse neighbours than you had. In my opinion you won the Battle but not the War.


Well, then thank God I am out of here soon then! I seriously do not think these people are capable of anything. There is no way to put this, but they seem to be the 'lower' rung of the social ladder here and I am not the only one who has problems with them in this apartment block. Also, I heard today that the family who lives on the 7th floor (below me) has also had a screaming match with my neighbors - so I am not the only one.


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## ArabianNights

It seems here, that the lower the social 'status' you are, the lower the name calling goes. The higher the status you are, the higher the name calling goes. If you are 'lower' class, then you use the word hayawan (animals) to call people, then its Ustazh/a (teacher) probably for 'middle class' to use to addressing people, then its Muhandis (engineer) used by those who aspire to be the 'higher class' and for higher class, they use raees (President) to address people. I may be wrong, but it seems that the higher class the people you are calling names to/or the one's calling the name, the higher rank 'name used' rank is. 

I would think my neighbours fall in the hayawan category.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> I keep reminding people but think it is worth another reminder... living here as a single women is very different from being in a family unit. I find it hard enough yet I have an embassy support system watching my back. The daily grind and stress can get to you and of course you have no one at home to moan about your rotten day. Plus of course us women are hormonal..
> I don't think many of us have not been in the screaming situation I even kicked a youth who had fallen off his bike after riding round and round me whilst I was trying to walk up the road.
> Homesick, lonliness. stress are powerful emotions.


Spot on. And what you describe (and even what I describe) is only a scratch on the surface. I have never ending problems, day in day out - and I know that a lot of people here on this forum mean well and I appreciate the advise, but physically acting on them is near impossible sometimes its not even practical. 

For example there was a post some time back about how to keep safe and some said that one shouldn't take a microbus and some said not to take a taxi, but if I do take a taxi then I have to do all this taking photos and then fake phone calls etc in order to keep safe. If you are a person who most probably has their own car or drivers etc... and does not have to rely on public transport, then it is easy to say this. I do not travel just once a day, I travel around a lot during the day - I have to. Its not convenient going through all this palava of taking photos of number plates etc... I dont use the taxi much anyway and if I do, I now know how to handle it, thanks mainly to advise from SHendra. There is a lot of good advise here, but much is conflicting - what is one supposed to do?

Yes, I guess I do use this forum to vent. I vent to my bowabs too (oh, yes they get it!) and to them yesterday I complained about the people and their attitudes and Islam here etc.... and believe it or not, they are sympathetic and they understand and know the problems here. I must say that although my bowabs are bowabs, they seem to have better values then most I have seen here. His wife even went after the guy in the shop for me, after I told her about the V word incident. She always tells me that if any man tries this on me, then I should take off my shoe and slap them with it, or just slap them. My teacher once told me to do the same, but also spit on their face.

Now, If I came here reporting that I actually slapped someone and spit on their face - I would get a mouthful. Sadly, whether we like it or not, its the norm here. There is no need to deal with these things using our western values, it is not the norm here, and it will make no difference whatsoever. If these people were so able to deal with things in the 'western' manner that some here think we should treat them with, then we wouldnt be here talking about it and I wouldnt be complaining about it.


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## ArabianNights

aPerfectCircle said:


> Lets not get carried away here, after all ArabianNights is living all by herself and no more drama is needed. Obviously she is having a hard time digesting all that is going on around her and she might be exaggerating sometimes but she is just venting it out.


Thank you - yes I am venting out. There are many things that I find quite hard to get my head around - especially the fact that no one seems to have any respect for each other (only sometimes, and that too only reserved for Egyptians) and the only way to deal with it here is to deal with it in the way that Egyptians do.

I have yet to see one day pass by without seeing arguments on the street or in my building - along with the screaming matches. I don't think that me doing the same is bringing attention to myself or make things any different. Granted, I am foreign, but thats not printed on my head here and I am not a 'westerner' here either. I think that makes a big difference.


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> Arabian said it before I don't think your find anyone against you.. were all pretty much saying the same when it comes to belongings etc because we've all had to do pretty much the same no matter where we was living!
> 
> I will say for others to get a bigger picture however and like what Maiden said about her being by herself she also pretty much went blindfolded into Egypt. Alexandria also to be presice. Way I see it also her Uni was of no help either! She's had noone guiding her/advising her of where is suitable for a foreigner to live. Sure living amonst Egyptians is an experience but we all know they vary from area to area. The area I lived in for example I was amonst those who were teachers, doctors, lawyers etc so they were pretty much happy going on with their day to day lives. The area in which Arabian is living however is way way way at the other end of the scale where a large portion of people are living on a day to day wage as in it depends if they've earnt that day if the family going to eat meat or beans! I know that area reasonably well in what's it like and my source for that is I was married to a man from that area and his whole family lives there.
> Tried one time to go visit the family by myself and well I never got there!.. I jumped in first taxi I could grab to get out of the area.. and waited till I could be escorted to where I needed to get to! There are parts of Miami and norther of it that taxi drivers will not even go to!.. Thats saying something isn't it?


Absolutely right, SHendra - and your advise has been a God send. The only reason why I am 'getting away' with things, is because quite simply I look like an Egyptian. When they figure out that I am not an Egyptian, then they think that I am an Arab (either Libyan (!!), Syrian, Kuwaiti or Saudi). I use this and play along. Otherwise, when people actually ask me where I am from, I tell them Afghanistan and I am still treated the same as an Egyptian or an Arab is treated mostly. I think this is all that I have to survive, but this doesn't remove the 'hayawan' factor and the other lovely things.

I think most on this forum are sitting on Red Sea coast resorts or posh Cairo neighbourhoods, such as Maadi and the like - big difference. Where I am living is somewhere akin to an Egyptian village and I even have live chickens waking me up in the morning daily (when I actually get to sleep).

When my sisters came to visit me, the first thing they said on arrival here, was "what on earth have we put ourselves into? Your flat is nice, but the location isn't" 


Getting up and leaving to find another place is also not very easy/practical either, Thats just another world of headache, I don't want. I don't have anyone I can pass that buck to.


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## hhaddad

quote;I think most on this forum are sitting on Red Sea coast resorts or posh Cairo neighbourhoods, such as Maadi and the like - big difference. Where I am living is somewhere akin to an Egyptian village and I even have live chickens waking me up in the morning daily (when I actually get to sleep).;quote

Hey lady we don,t all live in posh places and if you don't like the advice we give don't come back crying when your atitude gets you in deep ****.


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## MaidenScotland

I am sure life would not be so hard for AD if after a stressful day out she had someone say.. just you sit down and I will put the kettle on.. you who have other people in your home/house have no idea how sweet that would sound to some of us.


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## SHendra

I think the only way you can view it all now Arabian is that those in Miami/Ashraf are not likely to ever get the choices we all take for granted in life. I actually knew of a family who mother was very ill and the son was having to sell all he had to raise funds to buy her blood. 

Your be leaving in just 3 months now .. thats not long. Keep your head down and keep to your day to day life of your studies. When you need a break just skip off to somewhere like the park or even around the libary theres a few nice coffee shops too. Little point fighting people these people have to live what they have permently .. you have an end in sight.


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## ArabianNights

hhaddad said:


> quote;I think most on this forum are sitting on Red Sea coast resorts or posh Cairo neighbourhoods, such as Maadi and the like - big difference. Where I am living is somewhere akin to an Egyptian village and I even have live chickens waking me up in the morning daily (when I actually get to sleep).;quote
> 
> Hey lady we don,t all live in posh places and if you don't like the advice we give don't come back crying when your atitude gets you in deep ****.


Thanks for that. Your attitude is really shining. Maybe I should take a leaf out of your book.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> I am sure life would not be so hard for AD if after a stressful day out she had someone say.. just you sit down and I will put the kettle on.. you who have other people in your home/house have no idea how sweet that would sound to some of us.


Oh if only. I dont even remember the last time that has happened :Cry: :Cry: :Cry:


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## Maireadhoey

First off can I say to you A.N. that you are a brave, gutsy woman, fair play to you for giving it a shot. I don't always agree with the manner in which you choose to deal with the day to day shenanigans of those around you, but that's your call, you may not agree with my methods so that's fine too.

My life saver is Skype, even though you can vent and sound off on this forum you really should be talking to your hubby or best friends from home as much as you can. We can put a smiley face at the end of a sentence but nothing beats the belly laugh of a childhood friend who tells you "to catch yourself on" "you are on the home straight" or even just a "chin up honey" and sometimes it just put things in perspective. 

I am not belittling your problems, lots of tiny things can really mount up but come on you are an educated intelligent woman, rise above it and don't allow yourself to sink into a victim mentality, rediscover that independent strength that brought you here in the first place, oh and good luck for the remainder of your stay.


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## ArabianNights

Maireadhoey said:


> First off can I say to you A.N. that you are a brave, gutsy woman, fair play to you for giving it a shot. I don't always agree with the manner in which you choose to deal with the day to day shenanigans of those around you, but that's your call, you may not agree with my methods so that's fine too.
> 
> My life saver is Skype, even though you can vent and sound off on this forum you really should be talking to your hubby or best friends from home as much as you can. We can put a smiley face at the end of a sentence but nothing beats the belly laugh of a childhood friend who tells you "to catch yourself on" "you are on the home straight" or even just a "chin up honey" and sometimes it just put things in perspective.
> 
> I am not belittling your problems, lots of tiny things can really mount up but come on you are an educated intelligent woman, rise above it and don't allow yourself to sink into a victim mentality, rediscover that independent strength that brought you here in the first place, oh and good luck for the remainder of your stay.



Oh thats so sweet, thank you so much  I really appreciate this. Yes, Skype can be a life saver... your right. I keep in touch with my sisters back home and all my friends usually through Facebook.... I vent a lot on that too LOL and I get lots of supporting words.... my sisters, after their visit here think I am mad (they thought I was mad before) for even living in Egypt. See, their life is very different, they haven't lived or seen anything outside London and their hometown and they all are secure with their own houses and cars and circle of people and friends around them.... which they have all accumulated whilst I have been globe trotting, so there have been large gaps in my life where I have been away from family its sometimes it can actually be quite strange spending time with them, as everything about us is different. But I guess at the end of the day, they are family, no matter how different perspectives.

I use Skype to speak to my husband as much as I can - dependent on if the electricity hasn't cut off. He is in Pakistan and they get electricity cuts very very frequently more then once or twice or three times a day and the only time its reliably on is when its 3am here (lol) and I have screaming matches going on next door anyway, hence I get very little sleep and all spend most my days here tired, added to all the difficulties of living life here in Egypt that I am always complaining about!

You words are nice - thanks so much


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## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> Oh thats so sweet, thank you so much  I really appreciate this. Yes, Skype can be a life saver... your right. I keep in touch with my sisters back home and all my friends usually through Facebook.... I vent a lot on that too LOL and I get lots of supporting words.... my sisters, after their visit here think I am mad (they thought I was mad before) for even living in Egypt. See, their life is very different, they haven't lived or seen anything outside London and their hometown and they all are secure with their own houses and cars and circle of people and friends around them.... which they have all accumulated whilst I have been globe trotting, so there have been large gaps in my life where I have been away from family its sometimes it can actually be quite strange spending time with them, as everything about us is different. But I guess at the end of the day, they are family, no matter how different perspectives.
> 
> I use Skype to speak to my husband as much as I can - dependent on if the electricity hasn't cut off. He is in Pakistan and they get electricity cuts very very frequently more then once or twice or three times a day and the only time its reliably on is when its 3am here (lol) and I have screaming matches going on next door anyway, hence I get very little sleep and all spend most my days here tired, added to all the difficulties of living life here in Egypt that I am always complaining about!
> 
> You words are nice - thanks so much


Try and keep your chin up AN your time is nearly over but also think that's half your problem now because you know you are on the count down but also it will seem to you like the day is never coming....so start and make your plans for what you will do when you get back home...i kept a diary and used to write everything in there....also think of things you would like to do and see before you leave...anything,anything at all to try and keep your mind occupied,and before you know it your depature date will have arrived.


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## SHendra

That's a good idea keeping in yourself social even if it is online via Facebook or even Skype. Certainly helped me out when I was over there to speak to people who knew the way my mind ticked! I use to also meet up with my friends online and play games with them like scrabble or monopoly.. even battleships!

Cause of the baby I was more restricted towards the last year that I was there .. not many baby friendly places in Alex's! What I did a lot of was treated myself at least once a week to just a silly girly night sometimes more! I would buy some corn to pop or other snack stuff and have some movies downloaded to my laptop then once the lad was settled I'd curl up onto my sofa and basically chilled out! In your case because of having noisy neighbours how about say doing that with headphones on? And even if not watching a movie just put some music on and the headphones too .. drown out the surrounding noises just for a short time. Maybe try some ear plugs to sleep to? No harm trying! 

Even could treat yourself to a trip to the hairdressers too that can always give a bit of a spruce up to a mood! or even the nails!

There's always an upside to everything really. I live on my own here in the UK and well least I am not fighting anyone over the remote control for the tv, not having to worry about eating the last biscuit, I can spend as long as I like in the bath, I can have ALL the covers at night too! It can go on and on! lol.


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> That's a good idea keeping in yourself social even if it is online via Facebook or even Skype. Certainly helped me out when I was over there to speak to people who knew the way my mind ticked! I use to also meet up with my friends online and play games with them like scrabble or monopoly.. even battleships!
> 
> Cause of the baby I was more restricted towards the last year that I was there .. not many baby friendly places in Alex's! What I did a lot of was treated myself at least once a week to just a silly girly night sometimes more! I would buy some corn to pop or other snack stuff and have some movies downloaded to my laptop then once the lad was settled I'd curl up onto my sofa and basically chilled out! In your case because of having noisy neighbours how about say doing that with headphones on? And even if not watching a movie just put some music on and the headphones too .. drown out the surrounding noises just for a short time. Maybe try some ear plugs to sleep to? No harm trying!
> 
> Even could treat yourself to a trip to the hairdressers too that can always give a bit of a spruce up to a mood! or even the nails!
> 
> There's always an upside to everything really. I live on my own here in the UK and well least I am not fighting anyone over the remote control for the tv, not having to worry about eating the last biscuit, I can spend as long as I like in the bath, I can have ALL the covers at night too! It can go on and on! lol.


Yes! I do do those things you describe sometimes.... things like this really does help. I go sometimes to the nail place and have my nails done. And you are right there are good aspects to being alone and sometimes it can get too excessive in terms of getting out of routine and missing days off uni :/ LOL ... Its not that every minute is grey (I know it seems like that when I am moaning here!) I do make efforts to enjoy myself here and I find that when I am smiling and when I am happy, then the people around me are nicer too. Like the other day, I took a cab to Carrefour and I thought, you know what? Stuff the fact that I am a foreign woman and that I have to constantly keep my wits about me! So I took a cab and the driver was relatively young - so I just starting a convo with him (which I never usually do, I ALWAYS keep silent), I asked him who the singer was in the Music, I just started general chit chat about singers and Music and stuff like that, he put on my favourite Arabic singer LOL... we were speaking about light hearted things... then I got him to speak about his opinions on the politics of Egypt and stuff. I thought, not every Egyptian can be so bad - there are some good one's out there. I think he appreciated it too.

Of course, he gave me his number and said to call him when I want to be picked up. I didn't, for safety reasons. I just wanted to have ONE time, where I could just go in a cab, without any fear, and speak to someone. I know it sounds silly, but that really cheered me up and I am sure it was different for him too. I mean, he was laughing at my accent and poking at how I say certain words! I didn't mind, as long as it was fun and light hearted. And best of all, I felt I was safe.


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## SHendra

You may even find there be somethings you miss of Egypt when you leave. Actually whats that hot milky vanillaish nutty hot Egyptian drink they serve in the coffee shops called? I really crave that lately maybe because of the cold weather it became a winter ritual for me in Alex;s! Even Om Ali I grew to enjoy too!


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> You may even find there be somethings you miss of Egypt when you leave. Actually whats that hot milky vanillaish nutty hot Egyptian drink they serve in the coffee shops called? I really crave that lately maybe because of the cold weather it became a winter ritual for me in Alex;s! Even Om Ali I grew to enjoy too!


Oh yes, without a doubt! There will be certain things that I will miss about Egypt. I am not sure though, if it will be food, as thats one of my major issues here. I dont know about that drink you are talking about.... I usually stick to the Cilantros and Costas when I drink coffee outside, but what you are describing certainly does sound nice! I havent tried Omm Ali yet, mainly because wherever I go and try to have it, its always out of stock! LOL


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## MaidenScotland

You do better than me... other than the coffee shop in Diwan I would not go out and have a coffee alone..


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> You do better than me... other than the coffee shop in Diwan I would not go out and have a coffee alone..


I do EVERYTHING alone here. I don't have any choice. Either that, or be a recluse and lock myself inside the house.


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## SHendra

ArabianNights said:


> Oh yes, without a doubt! There will be certain things that I will miss about Egypt. I am not sure though, if it will be food, as thats one of my major issues here. I dont know about that drink you are talking about.... I usually stick to the Cilantros and Costas when I drink coffee outside, but what you are describing certainly does sound nice! I havent tried Omm Ali yet, mainly because wherever I go and try to have it, its always out of stock! LOL


The drink is called Sahlab (took me long enuf to surf that one!). You can buy it to make at home but wont be as good as one out. Doubt your find one in the branded coffee shops sadly. Same for the Om Ali's they're not so good shop brought. Problem with the Egyptian Coffee Shops not many put out price listings.. I hated it for that reason only. There is one however next to Fathalla in Montazah inside the mini mall there an Egyptian Coffee shop right in the middle maybe they do it.. they're good people there. Also another in Deeb Mall the floor below cinema a coffee shop called Candles very nice one also! (They have cute little turtles in fish tanks there and a little like 'river' with fish).


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> The drink is called Sahlab (took me long enuf to surf that one!). You can buy it to make at home but wont be as good as one out. Doubt your find one in the branded coffee shops sadly. Same for the Om Ali's they're not so good shop brought. Problem with the Egyptian Coffee Shops not many put out price listings.. I hated it for that reason only. There is one however next to Fathalla in Montazah inside the mini mall there an Egyptian Coffee shop right in the middle maybe they do it.. they're good people there. Also another in Deeb Mall the floor below cinema a coffee shop called Candles very nice one also! (They have cute little turtles in fish tanks there and a little like 'river' with fish).


I tend to avoid the Egyptian type coffee places, mainly because they sit there puffing away at something or another and cigarettes smoke is the bane of my existence here. Although not much better, the branded places at least have a small "non-smoking" section in them - although not technically 100% smoke free, at least there I can complain D) about the cigarette smoke coming towards me to the staff, and generally, I think they are better, in terms of cigarette smoke, then the Egyptian places. Yes, i saw Candles and the place that you are talking about in the mall, Montazah. I haven't had a coffee at the one in Montazah, for the exact reason of cigarette smoke and since there are no windows or air conditioning even, it would be suffocating for me to sit there. I might give the Sahlab a try though.... that name does ring a bell


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## SHendra

That didn't last then .. for a while the one in Montazah was a non smoking place.. lasted for sometime like that! (hense why I told you of it lol).


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## ArabianNights

Lol - dont be surprised. The chocolate cake that I had in Costa last night tasted of cigarette ashes, and I had a bit of a pain in my stomach a few hours later


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