# Eaa family permanent residence card



## Marvyn

Hi everyone can anyone help me about the new Guidlines of Eaa family permanent residence card the uk govt release new updates may 2015, and I have some confusion interpreting about the new Guidlines of eaa residence card. I'm a son of an eaa national both of my parents are italian naturalized, originally from the Philippines . As a son of an eaa national I have with me a permanent residence card issued by the Italian govt (Questura) valid for 5 years . Last 2 years ago my mom moved to uk and stay with my two brothers . I wanted to visit them just two days ago I have scanned an article that if the family of an eaa national has a permanent residence card is now being exempt to apply for eaa family permit. And I went to the website directly to gov.uk and it states about the new Guidlines that I don't to apply for eaa family permit as long as I have with me the permanent residence card? Am I interpreting it correctly ?


----------



## BBCWatcher

What's your age, Marvyn? I assume you are an adult since you also would have acquired Italian citizenship if you were a minor when either parent naturalized, assuming you lived in Italy with that parent, but please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Marvyn

I'm 30 yrs old. Yes your correct otherwise I'm not here. I'm a son of an eaa Italian national naturalized minor or adult it's a family member


----------



## BBCWatcher

OK then. As an adult foreigner (non-EU/EEA) you ordinarily don't have the right to live or work in the United Kingdom even if you have an EU/EEA parent. Here are the possible exceptions in your case:

1. If you are genuinely dependent on your Italian parent. For example, you have a serious physical or mental disability, and your parent cares for you. Or you're still attending university and are financially dependent on your parent(s). (Although that would be far fetched at age 30.)

2. If your parent is genuinely dependent on you, requires your care, and (ordinarily) has no other care givers. For example, your parent needs help bathing and feeding him/herself.

If either of those dependency situations apply, then you could apply and likely qualify for a U.K. EEA Family Permit.

Unfortunately your Italian residence permit, even if it is an EC Long Term Residence Permit, does not offer any ability to live or work in the United Kingdom. It does not even provide visa free access to the United Kingdom for Philippine nationals (or for any other nationals that require visas to visit the United Kingdom).

There is one privilege your Italian residence permit provides in the United Kingdom. It allows you to avoid getting a Visitor in Transit visa. That means you can book airline flights with a stopover in the United Kingdom. It must be airline flights, not ferries or Eurostar trains for example. Your departing flight must leave before midnight the day after you arrive. For example, if your arriving flight lands at 6:00 a.m. at London Heathrow on March 2, 2016, then your next flight (from London Gatwick, for example -- a different airport is OK) to depart the United Kingdom must be scheduled to leave at 11:59 p.m. on March 3, 2016, or earlier. With careful flight scheduling you may be able to stay up to 40+ hours. You must have the correct documents to enter the next country after the United Kingdom. For example, you could fly from Italy to the U.K., then continue on to Norway. (Norway is a Schengen Area country, and you have an Italian residence permit so you are permitted to visit Norway and other Schengen Area countries outside Italy for up to 90 days out of any/every 180 day period.) Ireland doesn't work (outside the Schengen Area) unless you have a visa to visit Ireland.

Thus, if you are very careful to arrange your flights, you can _visit_ your family members in the United Kingdom during a short stopover without first obtaining a U.K. visa. That's the one thing your Italian residence permit can do for you in the U.K. It's not much, but at least it's something. Please note that you do not have work permission within that transit period. Don't work, even if a volunteer. Don't enter the family restaurant's kitchen, for example.

To improve your situation what I recommend is that you focus on acquiring Italian citizenship as your parents did. To do that you'll need continuous legal residence in Italy for a minimum of 10 years. (You can apply after 9.) Within that 10 year period you cannot be absent from Italy for more than 10 months, and your longest period of absence cannot be longer than 6 months. You'll have to demonstrate that you met the residence requirement when you apply, just as your parents had to do. There's also an integration class you have to attend and a citizenship test you have to pass, and you do need to complete those steps at the right time in the process. Most probably your parents can advise you on the process if they recently completed it.


----------



## Marvyn

Hi sir thank u for ur reply. But I think u need to see about my questions it's about the new Guidlines article 10 permanent residence card issued by ukba may 2015, ukba states that all the wholder of permanent residence card can now go to uk without any need of family permit visa. And just for correction I applied it before and I didn't pay anything I don't know where did u get that information . As an eaa family member living in Italy originally from the Philippines I didn't the pay any cent. And I'm not planning to stay in uk more than anything else. I just want to exercise those new Guidlines as far as article 10 permanent residence card is concerned . If u can give me the real interpretation of the new Guidlines implemented just of May 2015 to article 10 20 that's all I want. I am not after yo stay in uk coz I'm working here in Italy and already got this permanent residency. If I go to uk my permanent residency of mine will be just temporary residency card not permanent same here in Italy


----------



## Marvyn

Don't be confuse with the ec long term residence permit / and carta soggiorno citadinza familare
It's a two different meaning I have stated that my soggiorno is a permanent residence given to the family of an Italian national . Whereas ec long permit is given if u acquired living in Italy for 5 yrs also as work permit. It's a totally different thing


----------



## Marvyn

Another correction yes I'm on the process now on applying on Italian citizenship but on my case it's only 5 yrs since it's called exemptional cases having Italian naturalized parents would only 5 yrs not 10 years. As of this year I can now file my Italian citizenship . Figli maghiorenni genitori citadinza naturalizati 5 anni dopo al giuramento


----------



## Marvyn

What integration class u meant to say ? There are none and my parents didn't attend the citizenship test it doesn't exist I was here in Italy prior to there naturalizati on no test as u are claiming . Pls don't mis informed me


----------



## BBCWatcher

Marvyn said:


> Another correction yes I'm on the process now on applying on Italian citizenship but on my case it's only 5 yrs since it's called exemptional cases having Italian naturalized parents would only 5 yrs not 10 years.


I'll address this part first.

I have the 1992 citizenship law in front of me (Legge n. 91/1992), including at least most of the amendments passed after the law was first enacted. Article 9 is the part of the law that provides for naturalization. I do not see a 5 year exception in the law unless you were adopted, per Article 9, section 1, subsection b.

What part of the law are your referring to that provides a 5 year path in your situation? Are you qualified for a 5 year exception somehow based on being adopted (and in a particular way)?

Article 9, section 1, subsection f is the 10 year path to citizenship, and it refers to Article 9-ter which introduced the integration requirements (class, citizenship test, etc.) Article 9-ter is a fairly recent change in the law, so if your parent(s) naturalized even just a few years ago, or if they qualified for expedited naturalization on some basis that exempted them from the integration requirements in Article 9-ter, then they did not have those requirements to fulfill.

I'm not providing incorrect information here at all. I'm just trying to understand what makes you think you qualify for a 5 year exception. If you qualify, great, that's fantastic! But I'm not sure which part of Italian law you're relying on.

We've already established you didn't become an Italian citizen under Article 14 of the law (minor child living in Italy with a parent who acquires Italian citizenship).


----------



## BBCWatcher

Marvyn said:


> Hi sir thank u for ur reply. But I think u need to see about my questions it's about the new Guidlines article 10 permanent residence card issued by ukba may 2015, ukba states that all the wholder of permanent residence card can now go to uk without any need of family permit visa.


U.K. Border Agency doesn't exist any more. U.K. Visas and Immigration took over the responsibilities of the former U.K. Border Agency in 2013. So it's not actually possible that "UKBA" issued guidelines in 2015 because UKBA didn't exist in 2015.

If you'd like me to review some _other_ guidelines that do exist, please just let me know specifically what guidelines you're referring to. I'd be happy to review them and offer an opinion.


----------



## BBCWatcher

Marvyn said:


> Don't be confuse with the ec long term residence permit / and carta soggiorno citadinza familare


I'm not confused, but (to my knowledge) it doesn't matter. You have a residence permit for Italy. It's not valid in the United Kingdom (except for the narrow, limited, specific purpose I described), a different country that happens also to be outside the Schengen Area. Residence permits issued to foreigners are national in scope only, with the exception of EC Long Term Residence Permits (specifically), but EC Long Term Residence Permits aren't valid in Denmark, Ireland, or the United Kingdom. Valid residence permits from a Schengen Area country (Italy, for example) give you short visit privileges only to other Schengen Area countries (90-out-of-180 days).

By the way, if you have a family-based residence permit it's contingent on co-residence in Italy with the EU/EEA/citizen family member with whom you have the dependency relationship. If that family member is no longer resident in Italy, do you still have valid permission to reside in Italy?

If you want to reside in the United Kingdom then the United Kingdom re-qualifies you for residence there, for their national permit (or visa if a visit). And, as I explained, for an adult foreign child of an EU/EEA citizen (with or without some other country's residence permit) there has to be a dependency relationship in either direction. Another country's residence permit issued on the basis of a dependency relationship may be some _evidence_ of a dependency relationship, but it's not dispositive on its own.

I'd be happy to review any guidance you've found that says otherwise, but that's my understanding of the limits of your rights.


----------



## Bevdeforges

I think you really need to pose your question over in the Britain section of the forums: Britain Expat Forum for Expats Living in the UK - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad

You're asking about your ability to travel to the UK, based on the Italian residence documents you hold, and that can depend on quite a few further details. The folks over in the British section will have the information you need or will know where they can send you to find it.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Marvyn

Before I answer some of ur repliEs let's focus about my queries . Article 10 20 permanent residence card. McCarthy case has won on eu court and by all means uk govt made some changes new guidelines about holders of permanent residence card can now pass the boarder without having a visa as eaa family permit let's focus on that that's my question


----------



## Marvyn

I know ukba before and they changed to ukvi just for the people to understand the control boarder . U can type figli maggiorenni genitori naturalizati. U can visit the website prefetura it's all written there in some parts of paragraph it's also close in parenthesis. But let's not focus on this one I'm very much aware of 5 year exceptional cases it's all written even in ministero dell interno.


----------



## BBCWatcher

It seems some communes are interpreting Article 9, section 1, subsection b of the 1992 citizenship law to apply to adult (biological) children of naturalized Italians -- that you're "adopted" ("adottato"). If your commune does, congratulations, bravo. (Article 9-1-b is quite strangely written.)

OK, now that you've given me a better clue what you're referring to, I've reviewed the U.K. Home Office's guidance on the subject you raise. The answer is still that you need a prearranged U.K. visa. The problem is that you have an Italian residence card issued on the basis of a dependency relationship to an Italian citizen. Your EU/EEA family was not exercising free movement rights -- was not working and living in France and you're not holding a French residence card, to pick an example. You're holding a residence permit issued by the country of citizenship of your family member (your parent). In that case, you were not issued an "Article 10 residence card," so this new provision does not apply to you.

That's all fairly well explained in the guidance I've linked to, so please review it carefully.


----------



## Marvyn

Ah ok tnx fir the effort on replying. That's what only I wanted in very beggining about the new guidelines resudence card. I'm not after to stay there coz this year I'm going to submit my Italian citizenship in prefetura. I applied as a eaa family member visa before without any payment. I was just confused with the new ruling about the said permanent residency coz I have it also. Well I rest the case Tnx u very much


----------



## Marvyn

I just want to go back to ur other questions in regards to ec long term permit. As far as I am concerned ec long term residence permit is now obsolete. The Italian govt changes it's rules 2 to 3 yrs ago as there are many complaints and violates the permanent residency . The policy of ec long term after 5 yrs u need to renew while the permanent residency written on on permit to stay is just to update or (aggiornamento) so the new one is the carta soggiorno motivi lavoro this are he people who acquired 5 yrs staying in Rome with no eaa relatives. Ec long term permit cannot ask for an eaa family permit it's another scope that's not my case , while my carta soggiorno cittadinaza familiare can able to ask eaa family permit


----------



## Marvyn

It's only my mom who moved to uk. I stay with my father who is an Italian national naturalized


----------



## BBCWatcher

The U.K. EEA family permit is still available, but (as always) you have to qualify for it.

I don't think the EC Long Term Residence Permit is obsolete. It provides "portability," meaning you can move to another EU country (but not to the U.K., Denmark, or Ireland -- those three countries have opt outs). Other than citizenship, I don't know of another option a foreigner has to move across borders independently, so that particular permit still has value, in my view.


----------



## waynedart121

Marvyn said:


> Don't be confuse with the ec long term residence permit / and carta soggiorno citadinza familare
> It's a two different meaning I have stated that my soggiorno is a permanent residence given to the family of an Italian national . Whereas ec long permit is given if u acquired living in Italy for 5 yrs also as work permit. It's a totally different thing


If you Hold a 'CARTA DI SOGGIORNO di familiare extracomunitario di cittadino
dell’Unione Europea/cittadino italiano ' under article 10. You can enter the UK with this however you must enter with the family member and you may be required to show proof to officials of your relationship.


----------

