# Migración



## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi guys, question for a friend. Is it possible for him to go to Mexico on a tourist visa and change his status once there to residente temporal or is it something that has to be done in the US? Thank you!


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

It has to be done in the US?...


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## Rammstein (Jun 18, 2016)

chicois8 said:


> It has to be done in the US?...


Is this a fairly recent change? I got both my residente temporal and residente permanente in Mexico.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you were in Mexico, as I was, when we had FM3-FM2-Inmigrado documents, before 2012, we could do the transition in Mexico. Since then, all residence visas must be applied for at a Mexican Consulate outside of Mexico; generally in the country where the applicant resides. The only exceptions would be spouses or children of a residence visa holder, who wish to get equal status. That may be done in Mexico, if they have current tourist permits or other legal status (such as an old Inmigrado card).


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you were in Mexico, as I was, when we had FM3-FM2-Inmigrado documents, before 2012, we could do the transition in Mexico. Since then, all residence visas must be applied for at a Mexican Consulate outside of Mexico; generally in the country where the applicant resides. The only exceptions would be spouses or children of a residence visa holder, who wish to get equal status. That may be done in Mexico, if they have current tourist permits or other legal status (such as an old Inmigrado card).


We are now Mexican citizens and I have not really been keeping an eye on current immigration issues, but just for giggles I went to the INM website to have a look and was a little surprised. I had thought that if you held a temp resident visa for 4 years you were automatically eligible for permanent. Apparently not. I'll post the link I was reading from at the end here but as I read it, you can transition from temp to perm at INM (in Mexico) but you need to provide what looks like the same financial information you would need at a Mexican consulate outside Mexico. I wonder what happens if you fail that test at the end of your four year stay ? 

I guess if you have anything less that 4 years residency and wish to transition to permanent you have to do that outside Mexico ? Maybe these days you need 4 years of temporary residency if you don't go the permanent route on day 1 ? Gosh - it felt a little more straight forward when we went through the process...

https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/cambio-de-residente-temporal-a-residente-permanente/INM823


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> We are now Mexican citizens and I have not really been keeping an eye on current immigration issues, but just for giggles I went to the INM website to have a look and was a little surprised. I had thought that if you held a temp resident visa for 4 years you were automatically eligible for permanent. Apparently not. I'll post the link I was reading from at the end here but as I read it, you can transition from temp to perm at INM (in Mexico) but you need to provide what looks like the same financial information you would need at a Mexican consulate outside Mexico. I wonder what happens if you fail that test at the end of your four year stay ?
> 
> I guess if you have anything less that 4 years residency and wish to transition to permanent you have to do that outside Mexico ? Maybe these days you need 4 years of temporary residency if you don't go the permanent route on day 1 ? Gosh - it felt a little more straight forward when we went through the process...
> 
> https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/cambio-de-residente-temporal-a-residente-permanente/INM823


I think that the website above is referring to presenting financial documents for those who want to switch from Temporal to Permanente prior to the 4 years. Two points below that it indicates that if it has been 4 years since you got RT and that is the route by which you are applying for RP, to write a letter specifically indicating that. The legislation itself indicates one category of RP qualification for those who meet specific financial thresholds (III below) and another category for those who have been temporary residents for 4 years (V below). 

“IX. RESIDENTE PERMANENTE. Autoriza al extranjero para permanecer en el territorio nacional de manera indefinida, con permiso para trabajar a cambio de una remuneración en el país.
Artículo 53. Los visitantes, con excepción de aquéllos por razones humanitarias y de quienes tengan vínculo con mexicano o con extranjero con residencia regular en México, no podrán cambiar de condición de estancia y tendrán que salir del país al concluir el período de permanencia autorizado.
Artículo 54. Se otorgará la condición de residente permanente al extranjero que se ubique en cualquiera de los siguientes supuestos:
I. Por razones de asilo político, reconocimiento de la condición de refugiado y protección complementaria o por la determinación de apátrida, previo cumplimiento de los requisitos establecidos en esta Ley, su Reglamento y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables;
II. Por el derecho a la preservación de la unidad familiar en los supuestos del artículo 55 de esta Ley;
III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país;
IV. Por decisión del Instituto, conforme al sistema de puntos que al efecto se establezca, en términos del artículo 57 de esta Ley;
*V. Porque hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que el extranjero cuenta con un permiso de residencia temporal;*
VI. Por tener hijos de nacionalidad mexicana por nacimiento, y
VII. Por ser ascendiente o descendiente en línea recta hasta el segundo grado de un mexicano por
nacimiento.”


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Ok - after re-reading this paragraph several times I can see what you are saying...

"Are you a foreigner who has the status of a temporary resident who has completed four consecutive years of residence, is a retiree or pensioner who receives his income abroad or wishes to participate in the Points System? You can change the condition of stay to permanent resident accrediting the assumptions and requirements indicated in the regulations."

I'll be honest - on my initial read I got - are you a retiree/pensioner who has completed four consecutive years of temp residency ... I actually thought they were being considerate of old folk and allowing them to handle the procedure in Mexico.

In any event it does appear that the procedure to transition from temp to perm can be carried out at your local INM office (in Mexico). Edit : (Do we agree on that ?)


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

ojosazules11 said:


> I think that the website above is referring to presenting financial documents for those who want to switch from Temporal to Permanente prior to the 4 years. Two points below that it indicates that if it has been 4 years since you got RT and that is the route by which you are applying for RP, to write a letter specifically indicating that. The legislation itself indicates one category of RP qualification for those who meet specific financial thresholds (III below) and another category for those who have been temporary residents for 4 years (V below).
> 
> “IX. RESIDENTE PERMANENTE. Autoriza al extranjero para permanecer en el territorio nacional de manera indefinida, con permiso para trabajar a cambio de una remuneración en el país.
> Artículo 53. Los visitantes, con excepción de aquéllos por razones humanitarias y de quienes tengan vínculo con mexicano o con extranjero con residencia regular en México, no podrán cambiar de condición de estancia y tendrán que salir del país al concluir el período de permanencia autorizado.
> ...



""Forum rule 1.8 This Website is in the English language and any Contribution posted by you on the Website should be in the English language.""


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## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

So, if I understood correctly, only direct family members of Mexican citizens can apply for Residente Temporal while on a tourist visa. Correct?


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Raypinciotti said:


> So, if I understood correctly, only direct family members of Mexican citizens can apply for Residente Temporal while on a tourist visa. Correct?


Correct.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> ""Forum rule 1.8 This Website is in the English language and any Contribution posted by you on the Website should be in the English language.""


Sorry. I simply did not have enough time to translate or to even clean up Google translate. I indicated in the body of my post in English that 4 years of Residencia Temporal (Temporary Resident permit) is one of the categories qualifying someone for Permanent Residence, and financials are a separate category by which someone can qualify.

I simply added a quote from the actual Mexican "Ley de Migracion" (Migration Law) legislation as the source of my statement, rather than a link to the website for the same, which would then mean readers would have to try to find the exact page, paragraph and sentence, and it would still be in Spanish. I know Lat19n has enough Spanish to sort out the different categories, especially since the link in his post was to a Mexican government website in Spanish. If I had just stated what I posted in English, I would certainly have had people wanting to me to cite my source. 

Or I could have just said to myself, "I don't have time to translate the source, so I won't bother to share what I know." Leading to less partcicipation on the forum...

Instead I decided to summarize the salient points in English, and quote the Spanish language governmental source verbatim to show that it was legit.

If I get an infraction for trying to be helpful when my time is limited, so be it. Being too legalistic is overrated.


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## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

Well, I appreciate everyone's answers to my questions in whatever language they wish to express themselves, except perhaps for Klingon, as I'm not smart enough to figure it out! Thank you very much!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you are an expat, and have completed four years as Residente Temporal, yes, you may transition to Residente Permanente, in Mexico, without further financial proofs. We did that.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> Sorry. I simply did not have enough time to translate or to even clean up Google translate. I indicated in the body of my post in English that 4 years of Residencia Temporal (Temporary Resident permit) is one of the categories qualifying someone for Permanent Residence, and financials are a separate category by which someone can qualify.
> 
> I simply added a quote from the actual Mexican "Ley de Migracion" (Migration Law) legislation as the source of my statement, rather than a link to the website for the same, which would then mean readers would have to try to find the exact page, paragraph and sentence, and it would still be in Spanish. I know Lat19n has enough Spanish to sort out the different categories, especially since the link in his post was to a Mexican government website in Spanish. If I had just stated what I posted in English, I would certainly have had people wanting to me to cite my source.
> 
> ...


I don't think you violated any forum rules and I don't see why a forum member should be so pedantic about "the rules". You actually posted good reference data, unlike almost all posters who just say whatever they think might be true.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

xolo said:


> I don't think you violated any forum rules and I don't see why a forum member should be so pedantic about "the rules". You actually posted good reference data, unlike almost all posters who just say whatever they think might be true.


Thanks, Xolo. Gracias. 

I would have thanked you in Klingon as well, but apparently Klingons do not say "Thank you" as that would be admitting weakness and that one needed help... I definitely do not have much affinity for Klingon culture, although I was always rather partial to Worf.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Rammstein said:


> Is this a fairly recent change? I got both my residente temporal and residente permanente in Mexico.


It changed with the immigration reform which was implemented, if I remember correctly, around 2014. Since the reform, the former FM3 and FM2 have become temporary and permanent residence respectively. 
There have been some other changes, too. One of the main ones is that whereas foreigners used to be able to reside in Mexico indefinitely on an FM3, renewing it year after year, now after 4 years on temporary status, the foreigner has to change to permanent if they want to stay a Mexican resident.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

The new SEGOB - INM Immigration Law of 2011 came into effect Nov. 9th. 2012. That is almost 7 years ago. The poster you replied to is way out of the circle being 7 years behind what everyone else knows happened.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you are an expat, and have completed four years as Residente Temporal, yes, you may transition to Residente Permanente, in Mexico, without further financial proofs. We did that.


Yes - but the INM link I posted earlier says much more than that. With Ojos help I now read that as - IF you are a temp resident in Mexico and wish to transition to a permanent resident AND you have been a temp for the contiguous 4 years OR you can meet the financial criteria OR you care to be considered under the point system (which I had not been aware of but sounds interesting) VISIT your local INM office (in Mexico) and start the transition process. It even goes so far are to provide you help in locating the nearest office. Reading between the lines - it sounds like INM (Mexico City ?) has the ability to evaluate your English language financial documents and make a determination (if that is the path you chose).

At this point I was going to relate a rather interesting experience from my working days but I'll cut to the chase and simply add - if I were in the position of being in Mexico on a tourist Visa, AND I wanted a be a temp resident AND I happened to have all my qualifying financial documents with me - I might walk into my local INM office and attempt to make the transition. Now the one difference I will grant you is the criminal background verification etc which perhaps needs to be done locally in the US (say). But my point is, I might try. We have accomplished things in Mexico which were told over and over were not possible...

And Ojos - I doubt they will toss you off the website for 'speaking' in Spanish - but I'm afraid it may be a ding on your credentials when you apply for a moderator position


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Raypinciotti said:


> So, if I understood correctly, only direct family members of Mexican citizens can apply for Residente Temporal while on a tourist visa. Correct?


Not only Mexican citizens, but also foreigners with Mexican residency status can sponsor a family member for residente temporal from a tourist visa within Mexico, as RVGringo mentioned in post #4.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you are an expat, and have completed four years as Residente Temporal, yes, you may transition to Residente Permanente, in Mexico, without further financial proofs. We did that.


More specifically, after four years of Residente Temporal, you _have to_ transition to Residente Permanente, and you do that in Mexico without further financial proofs.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> ...
> 
> And Ojos - I doubt they will toss you off the website for 'speaking' in Spanish - but I'm afraid it may be a ding on your credentials when you apply for a moderator position


Believe me, I’m quite happy to leave the moderation to our fine moderators, Isla Verde and Tundra Green.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Maesonna, are you quite sure about that? Back when the immigration laws changed, and I had already had 8 years of temporary residency and was at the the end of my second 4 years, I conferred with a very reputable immigration lawyer. I was distressed about having to go to Permanente, as I'd have to drive my lovely Honda CRV out of the country and sell it.
He told me that I could still have temporary residency, it's just that I'd have to apply for it from outside the country. (I opted to move on to permanante)


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

I know way more about Mexican immigration law than a rational person should know. 

My understanding is that the more common scenarios are (4) years temporary and then permanent (as RV has said) or direct to permanent with pension/savings retirement income. Some consulates have allowed direct to permanent based on (non)-pension income/savings. Those are a couple of the most common scenarios but there is also family unity, point system, refugee status, etc. Consular staff is not always up-to-speed on this complex topic.

After (4) years as temporary, you can continue as temporary by leaving the country and starting the process from the beginning.

I don't think you can go from temporary to permanent in-country by showing proof of income, even if it is pension income, but I don't have any personal experience of that. I *think* you would have to leave the country and start the process over, but maybe there is some way around that. But those are details left to the "guidelines" or implementation, so I'm not sure. But the basic law is pretty clear- issuing visas is a consular task.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

xolo said:


> I don't think you can go from temporary to permanent in-country by showing proof of income, even if it is pension income, but I don't have any personal experience of that. I *think* you would have to leave the country and start the process over, but maybe there is some way around that. But those are details left to the "guidelines" or implementation, so I'm not sure. But the basic law is pretty clear- issuing visas is a consular task.


 My experience was almost 10 years ago now, but I went from a temporary visa to a permanent visa without leaving the country. They looked at 6 months of bank statements. They never asked me where the income came from. Or if they did, I didn't understand, my Spanish wasn't very good then. It is still not great, but it is a lot better than it was then.

The temporary visa had been cancelled about the time I applied for the permanent visa. The temporary was tied to a job that had ended. I applied for permission to work (different job) and for a permanent visa at the same time. I don't think I knew at the time that with a permanent visa I wouldn't need special permission.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

surabi said:


> Maesonna, are you quite sure about that? Back when the immigration laws changed, and I had already had 8 years of temporary residency and was at the the end of my second 4 years, I conferred with a very reputable immigration lawyer. I was distressed about having to go to Permanente, as I'd have to drive my lovely Honda CRV out of the country and sell it.
> He told me that I could still have temporary residency, it's just that I'd have to apply for it from outside the country. (I opted to move on to permanante)


Okay, what he was suggesting you do was to abandon your history as a temporary resident and start a new application for temporary residency from year zero, as “xolo” mentioned above.
What you can’t do now (unlike what you used to be able to do on an FM3) is to renew temporary for a fifth year (and a sixth, and so on) after four years of temporary residency.


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