# Translating Documents



## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

Hello,

I'm planning to move back to the UK early next after nearly 10 years in Japan, so I need a visa for my wife.

I think we have jumped through most of the hoops, but reading through all the information on the government website is a little confusing to say the least.

We are applying to join family living permanently in the UK. As far as I can make out we have to provide proof for 3 things;

1) English ability.

2) The financial requirement.

3) That we are married.

The thing is some of our documents (bank statements and marriage cert) aren't in English. So I'm trying to find out if official translations are necessary and if it would be OK to translate the documents myself. The information on the government website is pretty complicated (intentionally so?).

I found this about the financial proof from July 2014 Immigration Directorate Instructions Family Members under Appendix FM Annex FM Section FM 1.7:
Financial Requirement;

3.3.10. Where a specified document is not in English or Welsh, the applicant must provide the original and a full translation that can be independently verified by the decision-maker. This translation must include contact details for the translator or the translation company and confirmation that it is an accurate translation of the original document. It must also be dated and include the full name and original signature of the translator or an authorised official from the translation company. For applications for leave to remain or indefinite leave to remain (but not for entry clearance) certification by a qualified translator and confirmation of the translator/translation company’s credentials must also be provided. 

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You only need a certified translation if you are applying for "leave to remain" or "indefinite leave to remain". I can see on the government website the settlement visas etc are classed as this. But it doesn't state this for applying to join family living permanently in the UK. Does this mean that you can translate banks statements yourself?


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## Kumamon (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm pretty certain you will need official translations. 

Are you applying for a spouse visa?


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

Thanks for the reply.

My wife is "applying to join family living permanently in the UK". This is for people who are outside the UK at present. We've done the online application and have to hand the documents in next Friday.

ww.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

I guess you could call it a spouse visa. But there's no mention of the applicant being "settled". It gives you up to 33 months then you need to apply for a different visa.

ww.gov.uk/remain-in-uk-family

This one states that you are settled (leave to remain?). 

Which makes me wonder about the certified translations.

(BTW the forum won't let me post links yet!)


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## Kumamon (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes, it sounds like a spouse visa.

You will need to get professional translations done. Bank book, marriage certificate, family register etc.

Translation companies can do it for you in a few days.


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## Kumamon (Jan 29, 2014)

[email protected]

These guys are good. Let them know its for the purposes of UKBA.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Anything not in English or Welsh must be officially translated.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

nyclon said:


> Anything not in English or Welsh must be officially translated.


Hi nyclon, can you please define what "officially translated" means? Does it have to be a court translator or can any established translator do this? I ask because the last time I used serviced of a woman I found online, who is a freelance translator and I still have her original translation of my marriage certificate. However, she just signed the translation with her contact details, no stamp or anything. Is this still OK to use, or do I need any special type of translator?

Alternatively, how would I go on getting the marriage certificate in the UK? Me and my husband were married abroad, in a civil ceremony, having informed the UK embassy in the country and having done all that was required by them.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's safer to use an established translation agency familiar with UK requirements (if in doubt, ask). They will know how to certify their translation and can do it very quickly. 
Just submit your official marriage certificate from the country you were married in together with certified translation if not in English.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Joppa said:


> It's safer to use an established translation agency familiar with UK requirements (if in doubt, ask). They will know how to certify their translation and can do it very quickly.
> Just submit your official marriage certificate from the country you were married in together with certified translation if not in English.


Thank you, it's all a bit of a minefield it seems  I looked on some translation agency websites and it seems the service would cost in excess of 50 pounds, especially if I want the translation snail mailed to me, which I assume would be the requirement. It seems maybe cheaper to just order the marriage certificate in the UK, which would, I assume be in English. Is there a website where I could do this? It's a bit confusing because we were married abroad so I can't enter the district in the UK where the marriage took place, but the marriage was all legit and over five years ago so I assume there must be a place where at least my husband, being British, could order a marriage certificate in the UK to prove he is married?


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## Kumamon (Jan 29, 2014)

Did you register the marriage at a British Consulate?

If so you should be able to order a copy of the certificate and translation on the GRO website.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Hi, yes of course we registered it!  Thanks for the info, I'll do just that and hope everything arrives fine.


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

I decided to ask the embassy if it was OK to self-translate. 

It turns out that the embassy doesn't answer visa questions anymore but did have a link to a visa enquiry service.

So on Monday I sent an email to the UK Visas and Immigration International Enquiry Service asking;

I have a marriage certificate and some bank statements that aren't in English. Can I translate them myself?

The reply came back today, so hats off for being quick.

And the answer was to send me a link;

ww.gov.uk/certifying-a-document[/url]

If you need to certify a translation of a document that’s not written in English or Welsh, ask the translation company to confirm in writing on the translation:

-that it’s a ‘true and accurate translation of the original document’
-the date of the translation
-the full name and contact details of the translator or a representative of the translation company

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So they didn't say no, which would be the obvious thing to do if you can't. (Why is it so difficult to get simple yes/no answers out of people nowadays....)

For the record both me and my wife have done translation work in the past. So don't see why we should have to pay a company to translate simple documents. Also I don't want to send my bank statements to a third party unless it's absolutely necessary.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You can't self-translate. It needs to be independently and professionally translated.


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

nyclon said:


> You can't self-translate. It needs to be independently and professionally translated.


How do you know that? (I'm not being rude, I'm genuinely interested.)

I have to hand this stuff in on Friday, and can't find anything categorically saying you can't.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Do you really think it's reasonable to have the applicant or sponsor translate their own documents? You could say anything.


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to translate your own documents.

You could say anything, but as you have to send in the originals too it would be pretty easy to check up on. As any kind of false statement would invalidate the application, why would you?

I was just wondering if you have a link to any official website or document saying you can't.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If you submit a document that is not in English or Welsh, it must be accompanied by a full translation that can be independently verified by the Home Office. Each translated document must contain:

 confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original document;
 the date of the translation;
 the translator's full name and signature; and
 the translator's contact details.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ata/file/343241/2014_08_Visitor_Documents.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/certifying-a-document


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

I've read that.

It says it must be accompanied by a full translation that can be *independently verified* by the Home Office.

The independently applies to the verification by the Home Office, not to the translation.

As I said I can't find anything categorically stating you can't.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

The UK.gov site specifically refers to using a translation company. 

If you need to certify a translation of a document that’s not written in English or Welsh, ask the *translation company* to confirm in writing on the translation:

that it’s a ‘true and accurate translation of the original document’
the date of the translation
the full name and contact details of the translator or a representative of the *translation company*


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

Nyclon, thanks for the reply. It's so hard to find any definite information about the process. So I guess the safer option would be to get them translated.

With that statement it could be read that if the applicant and the translation company are one and the same then self-translation must be possible. Also it says "If you need to certify a translation". In my original post there are rules saying you only need to certify if you are applying for LTR or ILTR. 

Self-translation isn't expressly prohibited, nor is there any statements requiring independent translation, so the implication is that's it's OK.

There are lots of confusing inconsistencies in the application process. Has anyone noticed that when you apply online the visas have different names to the original government website. 

This is the worst part about this whole process that there's a complete lack of transparency, if you ask a simple yes/no question then you deserve a yes/no reply. The fear of refusal makes me want to get them professionally translated. This fear could be removed by a clear statement from the government.

Do you know if anyone on this website has ever been refused for translating their own documents?


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

If it helps, I applied once for a UK tourist visa with translation which was done by a friend of a friend who works as a translator. She signed the documents and put her contact details and the documents were accepted with no problems. However, I would not dare apply with the translation I've done myself, and I did get a registered court translator when I applied for the spouse visa.


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## Zara2013 (Jul 18, 2013)

Hello, I hope you don't mind me using this thread to ask my question which has been bugging me for a long time. 
Does anyone know when the documents need to be translated? Is it only valid a month or slightly longer? My sms messages, whatsapp etc. are not in English; do they also need to be translated?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No time restriction, only that it must be up to date.
You don't need to translate the content of email and other messaging service, but if the recipient/sender's details aren't in English, they must be translated.


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## ikura (Jan 24, 2014)

Zara2013 said:


> Hello, I hope you don't mind me using this thread to ask my question which has been bugging me for a long time.
> Does anyone know when the documents need to be translated? Is it only valid a month or slightly longer? My sms messages, whatsapp etc. are not in English; do they also need to be translated?


Just to back up what Joppa said with my own experience, we had our marriage certificate translated about four months before the application, and that was fine. Some of our communication was in another language, but because my skype and messenger settings are in English, the 'to/from/date/time of call' etc were all in English, so that was fine too. They only need to see that you keep in touch, they don't need to read what you say to each other.


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## Zara2013 (Jul 18, 2013)

Thank you for your replies. This is very useful and helpful to know. It decreases some of my stress levels.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Kumamon said:


> Did you register the marriage at a British Consulate?
> 
> If so you should be able to order a copy of the certificate and translation on the GRO website.


Just a quick update on this. If the marriage took place oversees, you cannot get a marriage certificate from GRO, despite GRO implying otherwise on their website. You can actually not get it from anywhere in the UK, as far as my research has shown. Is this really correct? Regardless of the fact you informed the British Consulate or the Embassy in the country in which the marriage took place, about your marriage? 

So let's say me and my husband got married in Western Sahara for example, the only way for him to prove he is married would be to talk to Western Sahara officials to issue his marriage certificate, because he won't be able to get it in the UK. I was really shocked to discover this... I can't believe that's how it works... did I get it wrong or missed something?

Fortunately, we still have our original marriage certificate and the translation of it, but that's just luck really, more than anything else, because I always assumed that my husband could easily get a marriage certificate from the UK.


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## Kumamon (Jan 29, 2014)

That's unfortunate. I believed they changed the rules recently. I was married in Japan in May 2012, and we registered the marriage at the British Consulate in Osaka.

About 6 months ago I requested and paid for a copy of the marriage certificate and translation from GRO. It cost about 10GBP.

I believe this service is now unavailable, possibly from last summer.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Kumamon said:


> That's unfortunate. I believed they changed the rules recently. I was married in Japan in May 2012, and we registered the marriage at the British Consulate in Osaka.
> 
> About 6 months ago I requested and paid for a copy of the marriage certificate and translation from GRO. It cost about 10GBP.
> 
> I believe this service is now unavailable, possibly from last summer.


They seem to imply on the GRO website that it is possible but in practice, if they don't have a copy of the marriage certificate, there's nothing they can do. And as I found out, registering a marriage at the British Consulate does not necessarily mean the marriage certificate will be sent to and available from the GRO. It's good that I still have the original certificate (although it's ancient) with the translation, and I'm just trying to get a new one, to be on the safe side. But all these last minute issues I did not expect to pop up are adding up time and I'm risking not being able to book a premium appointment in time, and possibly having to apply by post, which I would desperately like to avoid - the waiting is just insanely stressful.


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

An update regarding self-translation.

The wife and I self translated our marriage cert, etc, signed and dated the translations as being correct. 

Everything was accepted by the visa office and we received our visa yesterday (Merry Christmas!).

So for settlement visas at least self translation is OK.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Nominuke said:


> An update regarding self-translation.
> 
> The wife and I self translated our marriage cert, etc, signed and dated the translations as being correct.
> 
> ...


You got lucky and just because it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for someone else.


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## Nominuke (Sep 21, 2014)

This is what really hacks me off about the whole process, it shouldn't be a matter of luck. 

People should be treated equally and if it's OK for one then it should be OK for everyone. It's the lack of clear information from the UK Government, Border Agency, VFS, etc, that creates this situation.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The rule is clear enough: you need verifiable translation, which means professional translation certified to be accurate and traceable. The problem is lack of consistency in implementing it. It's possible that ECO thought in your case you had used professional translator, having seen signed certification. They don't normally contact the translator direct for confirmation, though they reserve the right to do so. As many visas are processed outside the country they were applied in, such as the Philippines in case of applications made in Japan, and ECOs aren't conversant with the translated language, they must have a system ensuring the accuracy of translations, or otherwise the whole business becomes open to abuse and fraud. But the lack of resources and growing backlog of applications make this a tricky situation.
As nyclon rightly says, we can only advise people to play by the book, as this is the only way of ensuring the acceptance of translated documents.


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