# Why Do So Many Americans Emigrate Or Retire To Europe?



## woodbine

Looking around here and other forums it seems there are many posts from either working age Americans, some with young families, or retirees who want to settle in Europe. France, Portugal and Spain seem favourite. Why do do many want to leave The US?

Just curious.


----------



## Bevdeforges

There are many reasons why Americans want to leave the US - though not that many folks actually do so. Language tends to be a big barrier. But the draws are fairly simple: state mandated health cover, a social safety net that actually keeps heads above water. For those with young families, a centrally managed school system (and chance for the kids to grow up bi-lingual or better). There are also those with family ties who may actually speak a bit of the language where they are going. Italy is also quite popular, again due to family "roots" there.


----------



## ARPC

There aren’t very many at all compared to the British though.


----------



## Physics Guy

I'm not really sure there are that many. Some reasons I have heard discussed include; 

healthcare systems that seem more sane
lower cost of living (especially real estate costs)
no gun culture and mostly less problematic politics

There is also the backhanded reason. Retiring to Central America or SE Asia means always standing out as the (relatively) rich outsider. In Europe is it possible to blend in much more.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Further to Physics Guy's comments - many Americans with thoughts of moving to Europe are of European descent and may or may not have had some connection to "the old country" through parents or grand parents or just family legends. In that sense, there is something of a bond or "understanding" of the European culture (or so they believe) than with other cultures.


----------



## Moulard

At its most basic, I think it mostly boils down to

Love the place
Love someone in that place
A job that place
A historic or familial connection to a place
In my various international moves, each one, at its heart, has ticked one if not more of those four boxes.

Thats not to say there are not those who move for other reasons, but I doubt healthcare, or lower taxes or whatever is the primary motivating factor... Secondary... no doubt, but really who would move somewhere to save a buck if they hated the place.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Moulard said:


> Thats not to say there are not those who move for other reasons, but I doubt healthcare, or lower taxes or whatever is the primary motivating factor... Secondary... no doubt, but really who would move somewhere to save a buck if they hated the place.


Normally, I'd agree with you here - but we get quite a few folks through here who want to move to various countries in Europe without ever having been there. Often the motivation is precisely healthcare (a real novelty for the Americans), "a simpler lifestyle" (no idea where they get that from) or better weather (my personal favorite). Sure, they won't move here if they hate the place, but amazing how many will move somewhere without ever having been there.


----------



## Physics Guy

Moulard said:


> That's not to say there are not those who move for other reasons, but I doubt healthcare, or lower taxes or whatever is the primary motivating factor... Secondary... no doubt, but really who would move somewhere to save a buck if they hated the place.


Perhaps I'm making too fine of a distinction but there seems to be a fairly large gap between loving a place and hating a place. I suspect there are a lot of American who are interested in becoming an expat with healthcare or lower cost of living as a primary factor and are more than willing to pick a place they like but don't love that has those features. In the end it is similar to moving to a place decent but not perfect because of a job.


----------



## Physics Guy

Bevdeforges said:


> "a simpler lifestyle" (no idea where they get that from)


Should I feel personally called out? 

Lots of Americans view the Mediterranean as really not that different than the coastal FL, CA, and even Arizona ideal of perpetually warm, sunny days with golf, tennis, and either the beach or a pool. More exotic because it comes with wine. It's simpler because retirement is often marketed as a simpler lifestyle especially when it is being sold as moving from a house where you have done all the maintenance to an apartment or townhouse where there is either less maintenance or you are paying staff to do it for you. 

Then there is the other group that has bought into what gets called New Urbanism around here. Walkable communities. Effective public transit. Mixed use areas. Smaller residences and lower dependence on cars as an environmental virtue. Often combined with a somewhat anti-consumer mindset and the idea that Europe has healthier and fresher foods. Simpler lifestyle because between the moving and the often smaller apartment it's easier to be a minimalist. I'll admit that I don't completely buy the anti-consumerist, minimalist mindsets that often go with New Urbanism but otherwise it has some appeal even if I wouldn't describe it as a simpler lifestyle.

It seems pretty clear that most US expats don't end up being permanently outside the US which might well be because the simpler lifestyle gets complicated with language and culture barriers but it still makes sense that people would look to Europe for something they might describe as simpler.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Physics Guy said:


> Should I feel personally called out?


Absolutely not. You're at least the 437,323rd person to use that one here on the forum.  But who's counting?



Physics Guy said:


> It's simpler because retirement is often marketed as a simpler lifestyle especially when it is being sold as moving from a house where you have done all the maintenance to an apartment or townhouse where there is either less maintenance or you are paying staff to do it for you.


That's the American view of things. It's not necessarily how things work here in many places in Europe. While there may be a "syndic" in some lotissements or multi-family buildings, they generally only handle the exterior maintenance. If you're renting, many of the interior repairs and maintenance are up to the tenants. But hey, it's a learning experience!



Physics Guy said:


> what gets called New Urbanism around here. Walkable communities. Effective public transit. Mixed use areas. Smaller residences and lower dependence on cars as an environmental virtue. Often combined with a somewhat anti-consumer mindset and the idea that Europe has healthier and fresher foods.


This one is also risky to apply here in Europe. There are towns and areas that have all that good stuff you mention. But heck, where I live, the only sidewalks are on the main roads in the center of town. Walking from one town to the next means taking your life in your hands and walking along the grassy side of the road (sometimes mowed, usually overgrown). And the calm, rural or semi-rural areas so many Americans are seeking absolutely require a car for shopping, medical appointments and most other things. I'll give you that the quality of food is better here, simply because of what Americans claim to hate most: REGULATIONS. But I have lots of funny stories about expats who claim that European meat isn't properly tender (because feeding and processing of animals here is very different) and the Americans often don't realize that different meats here have very different methods of preparation/cooking than what you're used to in the US. Same applies to some plant-based foods, too.


----------



## Moulard

Bevdeforges said:


> Often the motivation is precisely healthcare (a real novelty for the Americans)


OK. Yeah.. having been out of the US for so long I have forgotten about the crippling nature of US health care costs. 

Thinking about it I recall an "only in America" news story of someone flying their whole family from the US to Australia so one could get a medical procedure done, get treated as a private patient in a public hospital, stay here for a month or two for recover and post op care and then fly back ... end result they did it becuase it was cheaper to do that than then do it in the US even after heath insurance.

So yes, it truly could be a primary motivating factor.


----------

