# brittany, dordogne or where?



## tout va bien

hi, we are americans who will be moving to france in the next couple of years when my husband finally decides to retire. our two young adult children will be moving with us. we are not concerned about being allowed to become residents, this is about where we should be looking please. we lived in germany for 5 years and spent a lot of time visiting france, but living somewhere is not the same as being on holiday. being near a river, lake or the sea is very important to us. we also do like the change of seasons, but like goldilocks, not too hot and not too cold. my daughter and i get very carsick so serious winding roads to leave our house wont work for us. so here is what we like to do----kayak, paddleboard, ride bikes leisurely not mountain biking, swimming or playing in the water, scuba diving occasionally, fishing, walking and hiking but not too difficult on our old knees, picnics near water, visiting markets for food and other things, drinking hot chocolate at home in front of a fire in winter, some vegetable and flower gardening, playing with our dog and cats, traveling in france and to other countries. we prefer beaches that have some rocks-more like coves, than miles of golden sand with no trees for shade. we like to eat out at lunch and sometimes for dinner as we do like to take naps. it would be amazing to be able to walk or ride a bike to nearby restaurants. if the town had some places to eat and shop that would be great, driving 20 minutes to a large town is good too. if we choose the dordogne, where are the public access points to park a car and put a kayak or paddleboard in the water? when i looked on google it seemed much of the river has houses or fenced off areas that do not allow access. i know i am asking for a lot, but i thought i would ask for everything we want and then make compromises as necessary. thank you to anyone who gives an opinion and i value all opinions. please write if you have anything at all to say. deb


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## Crabtree

Forget the Dordogne head for Brittany if you want to be near the sea have good sensible walking and a variety of scenery. Much of the coastline of Brittany has rocks coves etc.Kayaking can easily be done on the Nantes-Brest canal
Dordogne is of course landlocked
The only down side to Brittany is that being on the west coast it can be rainy in the winter(so you can snuggle up with your hot chocolate in front of the fire) and the sun does not really rise till about 0900 in the depth of winter However in the summer you get long light warm evenings ideal to enjoy those seafood restaurants on the coast-and not forgetting the crepes of course


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## rynd2it

Crabtree said:


> Forget the Dordogne head for Brittany if you want to be near the sea have good sensible walking and a variety of scenery. Much of the coastline of Brittany has rocks coves etc.Kayaking can easily be done on the Nantes-Brest canal
> Dordogne is of course landlocked
> The only down side to Brittany is that being on the west coast it can be rainy in the winter(so you can snuggle up with your hot chocolate in front of the fire) and the sun does not really rise till about 0900 in the depth of winter However in the summer you get long light warm evenings ideal to enjoy those seafood restaurants on the coast-and not forgetting the crepes of course


Beat me to it, I loved Brittany especially close to the Golfe du Morbihan, stunning countryside, the Golfe is fantastic for water sports, very close to the ocean and the main town of Vannes is picture postcard. But the area isn't cheap by French standards, but depending on where you are coming from it could be a bargain. I moved there from California in 2011 and could pretty much buy what I wanted using the funds from the sale of the house there. Most or the roads are easy but obviously if you picked a small hamlet you'll be dealing with winding lanes for part of your journeys.

I now live in the Charente but have often considered going back to Brittany. If you want to be among English speaking ex-pats then the areas close to the N164, towns like Pontivy for example have a significant ex-pat communities; further South towards Vannes less so. The village I lived in (Trefflean) had no English speakers - well apart from a few words.


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## tout va bien

Crabtree said:


> Forget the Dordogne head for Brittany if you want to be near the sea have good sensible walking and a variety of scenery. Much of the coastline of Brittany has rocks coves etc.Kayaking can easily be done on the Nantes-Brest canal
> Dordogne is of course landlocked
> The only down side to Brittany is that being on the west coast it can be rainy in the winter(so you can snuggle up with your hot chocolate in front of the fire) and the sun does not really rise till about 0900 in the depth of winter However in the summer you get long light warm evenings ideal to enjoy those seafood restaurants on the coast-and not forgetting the crepes of course


hi crabtree, my heart wants brittany but my head was saying dordogne for the better (weather?). we could eat seafood everyday. my favorite is crab and my husband's is scallops. yes, good easyish walking is very important and easy cycling. i did not know you could kayak on the canal, can you paddle board too? rain is fine, we are on a farm in northern virginia now and are just tired of the icy snow. i seem to be drawn to dinan, st brieuc, auray, and pont-aven. what towns would you recommend for being close to the canal. any other advice about anything having to do with brittany would also be appreciated. thank you, deb


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## tout va bien

rynd2it said:


> Beat me to it, I loved Brittany especially close to the Golfe du Morbihan, stunning countryside, the Golfe is fantastic for water sports, very close to the ocean and the main town of Vannes is picture postcard. But the area isn't cheap by French standards, but depending on where you are coming from it could be a bargain. I moved there from California in 2011 and could pretty much buy what I wanted using the funds from the sale of the house there. Most or the roads are easy but obviously if you picked a small hamlet you'll be dealing with winding lanes for part of your journeys.
> 
> I now live in the Charente but have often considered going back to Brittany. If you want to be among English speaking ex-pats then the areas close to the N164, towns like Pontivy for example have a significant ex-pat communities; further South towards Vannes less so. The village I lived in (Trefflean) had no English speakers - well apart from a few words.





rynd2it said:


> Beat me to it, I loved Brittany especially close to the Golfe du Morbihan, stunning countryside, the Golfe is fantastic for water sports, very close to the ocean and the main town of Vannes is picture postcard. But the area isn't cheap by French standards, but depending on where you are coming from it could be a bargain. I moved there from California in 2011 and could pretty much buy what I wanted using the funds from the sale of the house there. Most or the roads are easy but obviously if you picked a small hamlet you'll be dealing with winding lanes for part of your journeys.
> 
> I now live in the Charente but have often considered going back to Brittany. If you want to be among English speaking ex-pats then the areas close to the N164, towns like Pontivy for example have a significant ex-pat communities; further South towards Vannes less so. The village I lived in (Trefflean) had no English speakers - well apart from a few words.


hi david. yes the golfe du morbihan is very beautiful. the prices there for what we want as a family home do seem on the high side, but we could manage if that is where we decide to be. we would like to purchase some fixer upper smaller properties for our kids to renovate into air b &b's, gites, or long term rentals. this would give them future income as i don't think they will be able to work at official paid jobs in france. the sale of our farm would cover a family home and a couple of other properties to start, at least i believe so. i know the kids have a better chance of becoming fluent in french so it would be nice to be near a few english speakers, but we are moving to france and dont' expect many locals to be fluent in english. any other advice on anything else about brittany would be appreciated. we have only been once at the far northwestern tip. thank you, deb


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## Bevdeforges

Given that France has something like 35,000 towns, it's really difficult to know all the individual towns, even within an area or region. But I'll second (or third) the notion of Brittany - or check out the western edges of Normandy. 

The Dordogne is sometimes referred to as "Dordogneshire" due to the popularity of the area for Brits - both tourists and expats. And one other thing to consider is that, with all the climate change catastrophes in recent years, it seems to be the south of France (where the tourists are) that are suffering the worst. At least in terms of outrageously hot summer heat waves and phenomena like forest fires. 

Normandy and Brittany are even having far more sunshine than "usual" (whatever that was) and I'll admit a real weakness for the northern coasts of both departements. Though there are plenty of long-term Brits in both areas, it's not nearly as touristy as some of the southern areas with established British retirees. So, you're free to seek out other English speakers or not, as you prefer. In Normandy, you may want to consider Dieppe, Eu, Avranches and the surrounding areas (with LOTS of small towns). Have spent time there (in connection with work) and always loved roaming a bit in the "downtown" areas when I got the chance.


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## BackinFrance

One day, perhaps, someone will be able to explain to me why on earth people persist in making plans as if climate change does not exist or does not exist in France. Yet climate change is exactly what makes the OP.'s plans unachievable. Quelle insouciance !


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## suein56

rynd2it said:


> The village I lived in (Trefflean) *had no English speakers *- *well apart from a few words.
> *



You are so wrong but it depends on who you associated with from 2011 😉


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## conky2

BackinFrance said:


> One day, perhaps, someone will be able to explain to me why on earth people persist in making plans as if climate change does not exist or does not exist in France. Yet climate change is exactly what makes the OP.'s plans unachievable. Quelle insouciance !


How do you explain something to someone who already thinks that they know everything ?


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## rynd2it

suein56 said:


> You are so wrong but it depends on who you associated with from 2011 😉


Not wrong, creperie, shop, bar, doctor, Maire, neighbors, hairdresser, NO English


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## Bevdeforges

BackinFrance said:


> Yet climate change is exactly what makes the OP.'s plans unachievable. Quelle insouciance !


A tad harsh, don't you think? While climate change is unavoidable (and to be honest, none of the signers of the Paris Accords is living up to even what they initially promised - not that that is sufficient anyhow), there's no real harm in positing your "ideal" and then learning to adapt to how things turn out. 

And as for seeking out or avoiding contact with English speakers - that's pretty much up to the individual.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Just play nicely with the other children, please.


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## ToutesDirections

FYI the Canal de Nantes a Brest is part of a network of interconnected paths for <les transports doux>. There is a national map of these paths so you can zoom into Brittany, where the network is particularly robust. (I've posted this link before but it's still useful.) The canal path is also part of a long haul cycle route called the Vélodysée (or Eurovélo 1) and is a source of economic activity for towns along the route. Don't worry - it's not tourism on a disruptive scale like other places in France.

I don't know what it's like to live there, so hopefully others will weigh in. But even neighboring towns can have many significant differences that can take a while to suss out.

One thing about housing prices - they might be higher near places with good train access to Paris. Many French people have second homes in coastal Brittany.


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> One day, perhaps, someone will be able to explain to me why on earth people persist in making plans as if climate change does not exist or does not exist in France. Yet climate change is exactly what makes the OP.'s plans unachievable. Quelle insouciance !


i am very concerned and aware of climate change. i also do not consider myself reckless. climate change is affecting areas all over the world. do you think the towns i like in brittany will be flooded by rising oceans, be pelted with continual rain, become too hot to live in, run out of water? what will happen in the dordogne, will the rivers overflow and cause floods, will the rains stop and rivers dry up leading to severe drought, will the temperatures become unbearable? why are my plans unachievable? i did say i knew there would be compromises to be made. where do you think we would be safe, somewhere else in france or another country? i find your attitude a bit snitty and definitely negative.


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## tout va bien

conky2 said:


> How do you explain something to someone who already thinks that they know everything ?


as i was asking for advice and willing to compromise, i will assume this comment was directed to 
'backinfrance' and not to me. otherwise i would be somewhat offended


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## LFBEUSTON

tout va bien said:


> hi, we are americans who will be moving to france in the next couple of years when my husband finally decides to retire. our two young adult children will be moving with us. we are not concerned about being allowed to become residents, this is about where we should be looking please. we lived in germany for 5 years and spent a lot of time visiting france, but living somewhere is not the same as being on holiday. being near a river, lake or the sea is very important to us. we also do like the change of seasons, but like goldilocks, not too hot and not too cold. my daughter and i get very carsick so serious winding roads to leave our house wont work for us. so here is what we like to do----kayak, paddleboard, ride bikes leisurely not mountain biking, swimming or playing in the water, scuba diving occasionally, fishing, walking and hiking but not too difficult on our old knees, picnics near water, visiting markets for food and other things, drinking hot chocolate at home in front of a fire in winter, some vegetable and flower gardening, playing with our dog and cats, traveling in france and to other countries. we prefer beaches that have some rocks-more like coves, than miles of golden sand with no trees for shade. we like to eat out at lunch and sometimes for dinner as we do like to take naps. it would be amazing to be able to walk or ride a bike to nearby restaurants. if the town had some places to eat and shop that would be great, driving 20 minutes to a large town is good too. if we choose the dordogne, where are the public access points to park a car and put a kayak or paddleboard in the water? when i looked on google it seemed much of the river has houses or fenced off areas that do not allow access. i know i am asking for a lot, but i thought i would ask for everything we want and then make compromises as necessary. thank you to anyone who gives an opinion and i value all opinions. please write if you have anything at all to say. deb


Do you want to be near Brits? If so then Brittany or the Dordogne would be perfect. If you want to integrate then avoid those areas the same goes for S.E France.


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## ccm47

I think "Brits" is a term often applied to anybody whose first language happens to be English. The stats may show high figures in towns such as Bergerac and Eymet for true Brits in Dordogne but elsewhere, out of season, there really aren't so many, especially since the UK withdrawal from the EU which caused many people to sell up.

For what you want OP I'd steer clear of Dordogne because not only is it very hilly but the roads are twisty and windy and in our experience badly maintained once you have left the N roads, not that you would want to cycle down them too often. The climate is also Continental: very cold in winter and very hot in summer, we live just one department further south and notice, when we go up there, how the speed of plant growth is affected. I suggest you install a weather app to track temperatures in any area that interests you.

For investigating parking for access to rivers and canals you might find park4night - Sharing cool places, camping car areas, van useful. It's not the be all and end all of accessible spots but it does tell you where there are possibilities for vehicles with trailers to park during the day as well as at night.


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## travertine

I would also point you towards Brittany. We lived in the Lot for 12 months just next to Dordogne, and while I preferred the landscape, agriculture and architecture, I'm glad we made the move north. 2021 was uncharacteristically cool in our part of the Lot but nevertheless had some hot periods. This year the south west baked and burnt unfortunately. And I don't believe the situation is going to improve any time soon. I agree with the comments about the roads in the Dordogne unless of course you would prefer to live closer to the coast on the plain with vineyards. For me the prettier areas are up in the hills with big rivers, cliffs and hillside towns. But not much fun exploring if you get car sick.

Back to Brittany. We bought a small stone cottage with river frontage just outside Josselin and the Nantes-Brest canal is a few hundred metres away. Being on the upstream side of Josselin means most of the hire boat traffic stops at Josselin (it's apparently as far as you can get and back in a week). Josselin has a lovely chateau and village centre, a year-round market, hospital and some major shops (LeClerc, Super U, Point Verte) while Pontivy or Rennes offer more options. You can take the bus to Rennes station and then the fast train to Paris. Rennes also has an airport. The area is intensely agricultural (dairy, pigs, maize, wheat, canola, buckwheat, sunflowers) with a rolling landscape and lots of hedgerows. But realistically it's an hour from the coast so if you're looking for something a bit saltier then you may wish to move closer to the shoreline. But perhaps be prepared for the crazy summer traffic. We've only made one trip west but not quite as far as Brest. It does feel a bit more remote over there but it all depends on your preferences.

Regarding the English-speaking aspect, it does have it's benefits. If you have no French then chances are you'll find it a bit easier navigating things until you get the fundamentals in place. We wanted to do quite a lot of renovations on the house and we tried to engage the local tradesmen but they were too busy. And then there was the language issue. Fortunately we found a local English guy who's qualified and has lived here for more than a decade and he's doing a fantastic job for us. And our French is gradually improving. Best of luck.


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## Befuddled

Its hard to make suggestions for someone else. We all have different expectations (and resources) and what is too hot or too cold for one person is quite tolerable for another. I have mostly lived in the north, half hour drive from the beaches. Some long, sandy, and flat enough for sandracing, etc. Some terrifyingly rocky, (I'm an ex liveaboard sailor). For quite a few years I migrated from the north to the Charente Maritime in the SW spending the winters there and the summers in Brittany. For me personally the north was too cold in winter to live in a house with no heating. The Charente was way too hot in summer to do any work outside. We eventually abandoned the house down south and settled in the north. If you love seafood, green surroundings, and more moderate (if a bit grey in winter) weather Brittany might suit.


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## Clic Clac

BackinFrance said:


> But then, it appears I am *personal non grata *on this thread, so of course my opinion matters not at all


_*Persona *_lol. Don't take it persona - ly. 😅 😍


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## BackinFrance

Clic Clac said:


> _*Persona *_lol. Don't take it persona - ly. 😅 😍


That is what I meant, clearly autotext took over


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## Bevdeforges

Not sure that Bretagne is as anglophone infested as some folks here seem to indicate. Normandy is potentially a bit more so, but it's very easy to avoid dealing with anglophones (if that's what you want to do) in Bretagne and Normandy than in certain "British enclaves" further south. But even down south, you only need to hang out with Brits if you choose to do so. (And many folks do so choose.)


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## EuroTrash

Befuddled said:


> Its hard to make suggestions for someone else.


This ^^
Dordogne left me cold, the vibes did nothing for me. Some amazing scenery and cute towns but (the places I fetched up in at least) too much focus on wine and viticulture which I know nothing about although I like drinking it, obviously it's a big part of life thereabouts. Too artsy craftsy, too lifestyle living and drinks-round-the-pool orientated, too much English language everywhere. It felt veneered, if that makes sense. I wouldn't have felt at home there.
Brittany was totally different and it enthralled me. Open air festivals, fest noz, medieval music concerts in churches, a real sense of a living tradition and all that. It's a cliché but I felt Brittany had a soul that you can connect with and Dordogne didn't.
That is entirely personal. Other people will feel the polar opposite.
But to me, the two regions are so different that I don't see how it's possible for one person to like them both equally. Or maybe you can.


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## zarathustra

I've lived in the capital, bought by the coast in Brittany, and live by the border of Dordogne, and have explored both Brittany and Dordogne on a yearly basis... I'm happy with where I am, but honestly I would be torn between the two. Dordogne would probably win it for me, but then the driving and warm weather are not so much of an issue. With climate change going the way it is, Brittany might become a more and more appealing option for many. There's certainly a lot more wind and rain, but by the coast it's a more temperate climate, so the winters are more manageable, along with the things you can grow. Although I liked Morbihan's villages and towns, the coast was disappointing, I much preferred the pink granite coast in the north, or parts of Finistere, and walking the coastal paths there - the prices are more favourable too... If budgeting is an issue, you need only go a little further inland and it's one of the cheapest places to buy in France, but parts of inland Brittany do seem rather quiet and the landscape not terribly exciting, so you'd have to plan carefully. With that said, I passed through Huelgoat recently which is more central and quite pleasant, and seems to be home to many Brits - I suspect house prices are good in that area.


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> One day, perhaps, someone will be able to explain to me why on earth people persist in making plans as if climate change does not exist or does not exist in France. Yet climate change is exactly what makes the OP.'s plans unachievable. Quelle insouciance !


hello. i did say i was open to all opinions and so it would be good for me if you tell me why our plans are unachievable and why you think i am reckless. i will keep an open mind, but please be kind and not mean. thank you, deb


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## tout va bien

Bevdeforges said:


> A tad harsh, don't you think? While climate change is unavoidable (and to be honest, none of the signers of the Paris Accords is living up to even what they initially promised - not that that is sufficient anyhow), there's no real harm in positing your "ideal" and then learning to adapt to how things turn out.
> 
> And as for seeking out or avoiding contact with English speakers - that's pretty much up to the individual.
> 
> We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Just play nicely with the other children, please.


thank you bev. as i said in response to another poster, ' i know the kids have a better chance of becoming fluent in french so it would be nice to be near a few english speakers, but we are moving to france and dont' expect many locals to be fluent in english.'


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## tout va bien

suein56 said:


> You are so wrong but it depends on who you associated with from 2011 😉


hi suein56. we often found that if we did our best to speak as much french as possible, many people would then speak english to us. i think they gave us credit for trying, but we probably botched it so badly, they felt sympathy for us. plus, we are kind people who usually have a smile on our faces. anyway, somehow we always managed to be understood


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## tout va bien

ToutesDirections said:


> FYI the Canal de Nantes a Brest is part of a network of interconnected paths for <les transports doux>. There is a national map of these paths so you can zoom into Brittany, where the network is particularly robust. (I've posted this link before but it's still useful.) The canal path is also part of a long haul cycle route called the Vélodysée (or Eurovélo 1) and is a source of economic activity for towns along the route. Don't worry - it's not tourism on a disruptive scale like other places in France.
> 
> I don't know what it's like to live there, so hopefully others will weigh in. But even neighboring towns can have many significant differences that can take a while to suss out.
> 
> One thing about housing prices - they might be higher near places with good train access to Paris. Many French people have second homes in coastal Brittany.


hello toutesdirections. thank you for the link. the map is perfect and just what i have been looking for


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## tout va bien

LFBEUSTON said:


> Do you want to be near Brits? If so then Brittany or the Dordogne would be perfect. If you want to integrate then avoid those areas the same goes for S.E France.


thank you for your reply. deb


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## tout va bien

ccm47 said:


> I think "Brits" is a term often applied to anybody whose first language happens to be English. The stats may show high figures in towns such as Bergerac and Eymet for true Brits in Dordogne but elsewhere, out of season, there really aren't so many, especially since the UK withdrawal from the EU which caused many people to sell up.
> 
> For what you want OP I'd steer clear of Dordogne because not only is it very hilly but the roads are twisty and windy and in our experience badly maintained once you have left the N roads, not that you would want to cycle down them too often. The climate is also Continental: very cold in winter and very hot in summer, we live just one department further south and notice, when we go up there, how the speed of plant growth is affected. I suggest you install a weather app to track temperatures in any area that interests you.
> 
> For investigating parking for access to rivers and canals you might find park4night - Sharing cool places, camping car areas, van useful. It's not the be all and end all of accessible spots but it does tell you where there are possibilities for vehicles with trailers to park during the day as well as at night.


hello ccm47. thank you for the advice about the windy roads. they do not sound good for driving or riding bikes. i wish i did not get so motion sick, but once i do, my whole day is ruined. if i take a pill before, then i feel sleepy all day. i also appreciate the link as it looks like we will not be moving to dordogne, but i know we will want to make some visits (staying on the main roads of course, haha). deb


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## tout va bien

Bevdeforges said:


> Not sure that Bretagne is as anglophone infested as some folks here seem to indicate. Normandy is potentially a bit more so, but it's very easy to avoid dealing with anglophones (if that's what you want to do) in Bretagne and Normandy than in certain "British enclaves" further south. But even down south, you only need to hang out with Brits if you choose to do so. (And many folks do so choose.)


thank you bev, i value your opinion


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## tout va bien

EuroTrash said:


> This ^^
> Dordogne left me cold, the vibes did nothing for me. Some amazing scenery and cute towns but (the places I fetched up in at least) too much focus on wine and viticulture which I know nothing about although I like drinking it, obviously it's a big part of life thereabouts. Too artsy craftsy, too lifestyle living and drinks-round-the-pool orientated, too much English language everywhere. It felt veneered, if that makes sense. I wouldn't have felt at home there.
> Brittany was totally different and it enthralled me. Open air festivals, fest noz, medieval music concerts in churches, a real sense of a living tradition and all that. It's a cliché but I felt Brittany had a soul that you can connect with and Dordogne didn't.
> That is entirely personal. Other people will feel the polar opposite.
> But to me, the two regions are so different that I don't see how it's possible for one person to like them both equally. Or maybe you can.


hello eurotrash. my husband drinks wine and i used too, but have not for several years because when i drink i get chubby from all the extra calories and unfortunately it really stimulates my appetite. however, once we get to france, i might change my mind. thank you for your opinions. deb


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## tout va bien

zarathustra said:


> I've lived in the capital, bought by the coast in Brittany, and live by the border of Dordogne, and have explored both Brittany and Dordogne on a yearly basis... I'm happy with where I am, but honestly I would be torn between the two. Dordogne would probably win it for me, but then the driving and warm weather are not so much of an issue. With climate change going the way it is, Brittany might become a more and more appealing option for many. There's certainly a lot more wind and rain, but by the coast it's a more temperate climate, so the winters are more manageable, along with the things you can grow. Although I liked Morbihan's villages and towns, the coast was disappointing, I much preferred the pink granite coast in the north, or parts of Finistere, and walking the coastal paths there - the prices are more favourable too... If budgeting is an issue, you need only go a little further inland and it's one of the cheapest places to buy in France, but parts of inland Brittany do seem rather quiet and the landscape not terribly exciting, so you'd have to plan carefully. With that said, I passed through Huelgoat recently which is more central and quite pleasant, and seems to be home to many Brits - I suspect house prices are good in that area.


hello zarathustra. the brittany coast with a more temperate climate and the coastal paths sound like what we are looking for or somewhere along the canal. we don't want to be too isolated from people or amenities as we get older. thank you for your response. deb


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## zarathustra

I completely understand Deb. One thing that did strike me about certain coastal towns is the number of second homes either only used for holidays by the owner (often Parisians) or only rented out during the summer holidays. It can be a bit depressing out of season to see all the houses with closed shutters and the life drain from a place... Some people like it that way of course, but it is something to bear in mind.


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## BackinFrance

La Bretagne doit vite s'adapter au réchauffement climatique


À l’extrême ouest de la France, la Bretagne est elle aussi vivement menacée par le réchauffement climatique.




www.natura-sciences.com


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## BackinFrance

The above does not even take into account the fire in the arctic, which will very likely speed up the effect of climate change, or the dérèglement climatique which is a term I much prefer. All things considered I will certainly stay where I am in the south west, despite the high temps and drought.

BTW I did not say reckless, that is a false translation.


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## BackinFrance

Pleased to say though that down here, despite high temperatures, they were lower than Rennes.


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## 1790260

France is massive. We ended up in central France by whim, by chance even. We'd been touring around looking for potential places to move to, and made an overnight stop on the way back to the UK, in a small town not far from we are now. We pitched our tent (literally, we were camping) and walked into town, part of the way alongside a river. We watched kingfishers swooping under a bridge, had something to eat in a run of the mill, nondescript cafe. It was a lovely evening, quiet and still. We decided 'this will do' . We came back for an extended look around the area a few months later. The 'this will do' attitude remained. 

We found a place that ticked enough of our boxes (nowhere is perfect, you'll look forever if you look for perfect) bought it and got on with dealing with stuff as and when it arose. It's rural, very quiet, a small tourist influx over summer but negligible. Most people simply stop off (as we did) on the way north/south. You can't really get by without speaking at least some French, it's a bit backwater back of beyond. Delivery drivers, couriers and the like usually phone to find us. But the post lady knows us by name.

We're on the Creuse / Indre borders. The countryside is beautiful, life is gentle and slow. Choice is limited, buy it when you see it or do without. You adapt, you get into the rhythm. Right now, I wouldn't change it.

And we never did get to look at the east of France. Sometimes you just jump and make it up as you go.


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## tout va bien

zarathustra said:


> I completely understand Deb. One thing that did strike me about certain coastal towns is the number of second homes either only used for holidays by the owner (often Parisians) or only rented out during the summer holidays. It can be a bit depressing out of season to see all the houses with closed shutters and the life drain from a place... Some people like it that way of course, but it is something to bear in mind.


zarathustra, i do not want to live in a town that is deserted in winter. we have lived in tourist towns in california, but they offered skiing in winter and lake water sorts in summer with lots of full time residents. thanks for the advice. deb


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> La Bretagne doit vite s'adapter au réchauffement climatique
> 
> 
> À l’extrême ouest de la France, la Bretagne est elle aussi vivement menacée par le réchauffement climatique.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.natura-sciences.com


thank you for the article, i will read it later as i need to start my farm chores now. i do agree with you that climate change is happening all over the world. i have read several articles that recommend the best places to live based on predicted future weather conditions. unfortunately, those places do not interest us at this time. if we were significantly younger, i would probably look at this issue differently than i do now due to the limited number of years we have left. we try as a family to live as sustainably and self sufficient as possible. my husband and i do want to leave a better planet for our children and grandchildren and the rest of the world so we do as much as we personally can to make that happen. deb


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> The above does not even take into account the fire in the arctic, which will very likely speed up the effect of climate change, or the dérèglement climatique which is a term I much prefer. All things considered I will certainly stay where I am in the south west, despite the high temps and drought.
> 
> BTW I did not say reckless, that is a false translation.


drought is another major concern of mine since i am a native californian and have lived through some water restricted times. we currently have a well that produces clean, tasty, cold water. i hope we can have that at our new home too, but i wont count on it. also, please tell me the correct translation since reckless is incorrect. thank you, deb


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## tout va bien

appunti said:


> France is massive. We ended up in central France by whim, by chance even. We'd been touring around looking for potential places to move to, and made an overnight stop on the way back to the UK, in a small town not far from we are now. We pitched our tent (literally, we were camping) and walked into town, part of the way alongside a river. We watched kingfishers swooping under a bridge, had something to eat in a run of the mill, nondescript cafe. It was a lovely evening, quiet and still. We decided 'this will do' . We came back for an extended look around the area a few months later. The 'this will do' attitude remained.
> 
> We found a place that ticked enough of our boxes (nowhere is perfect, you'll look forever if you look for perfect) bought it and got on with dealing with stuff as and when it arose. It's rural, very quiet, a small tourist influx over summer but negligible. Most people simply stop off (as we did) on the way north/south. You can't really get by without speaking at least some French, it's a bit backwater back of beyond. Delivery drivers, couriers and the like usually phone to find us. But the post lady knows us by name.
> 
> We're on the Creuse / Indre borders. The countryside is beautiful, life is gentle and slow. Choice is limited, buy it when you see it or do without. You adapt, you get into the rhythm. Right now, I wouldn't change it.
> 
> And we never did get to look at the east of France. Sometimes you just jump and make it up as you go.


thank you for your response. it sounds like you found just what you needed and i am happy for you. from previous life experiences i know that i often go into something 'knowing' what i want and end up with something completely different and could not be happier about the choice. deb


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## BackinFrance

I cannot tell you the correct translation in English, simply because my English is not good enough.


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> I cannot tell you the correct translation in English, simply because my English is not good enough.


fair enough


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## Clic Clac

BackinFrance said:


> Quelle insouciance !





tout va bien said:


> i also do not consider myself reckless.


Google translates it as _carelessness._


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## BackinFrance

tout va bien said:


> fair enough


There are nuances, probably in English, but definitely in French. Still, I do understand the term reckless and that is definitely not the correct translation, which is actually a little like your username, if I dare say so.


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> There are nuances, probably in English, but definitely in French. Still, I do understand the term reckless and that is definitely not the correct translation, which is actually a little like your username, if I dare say so.


yes, i understand what you are saying. as for my name i would say that there are nuances in it also. i wanted something that says, it's all good, no worries, i am content/happy, do not be bothered by the little annoying or bothersome things in life, find joy where you can, be happy. maybe i should be named 'enjoy life' or 'life is good' in french'. deb


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## tout va bien

Clic Clac said:


> Google translates it as _carelessness._


thank you clic clac. deb


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## EuroTrash

Clic Clac said:


> Google translates it as _carelessness._


Carelessness more as in not having a care in the world, I would say, rather than careless as in négligent, like forgetting to lock your car or knocking over a glass of wine. Un souci is a concern, a worry, Like you might have over your pension LOL. So if you are insouciant, you don't have any..
"Lack of concern" is pretty close I think.


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## BackinFrance

EuroTrash said:


> Carelessness more as in not having a care in the world, I would say, rather than careless as in négligent, like forgetting to lock your car or knocking over a glass of wine. Un souci is a concern, a worry, Like you might have over your pension LOL. So if you are insouciant, you don't have any..
> "Lack of concern" is pretty close I think.


Wrong and I thought you would have known better.


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## EuroTrash

BackinFrance said:


> Wrong and I thought you would have known better.


Well go on then - don't just say "wrong", enlighten me!


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## EuroTrash

Here's a little song about someone who's hankering for the carefreeness and happy-go-luckiness of youth

L'Insouciance (Louise Attaque)

A l'antenne aujourd'hui
J'entends que l'on meurt, que l'on vit
Et l'insouciance qui nous fuit
L'insouciance qui n'a pas de prix

Ressentir petit à petit
Plonger sans trouver d'abri
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Sentir son coeur qui s'amoindrit
Il est si tard aujourd'hui
Pas envie, pas envie, pas envie
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Voila le train qui me conduit

Les images, les images et le bruit
La douleur, la douleur et l'ennui
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Voila le vide qui me remplit

Je ne me ressemble plus aujourd'hui
Mais si car c'est moi tous ces plis
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
L'insouciance qui n'a pas de prix

Qui a dit que c'est long la vie?
Perdre la page de ses propres nuits
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Voila le vide qui me remplit

Ressentir petit à petit
Plonger sans trouver d'abri
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Sentir son coeur qui s'amoindrit
Il est si tard aujourd'hui
Pas envie, pas envie, pas envie
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Voila le train qui me conduit

J'improviserai encore, c'est promis
Qui a dit que c'est long la vie?
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Voila le vide qui me réduit

Ressentir petit à petit
Plonger sans trouver d'abri
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Sentir son coeur qui s'amoindrit
Il est si tard aujourd'hui
Pas envie, pas envie, pas envie
Et l'insouciance qui me fuit
Voila le train qui me conduit

Les images, les images et le bruit
La douleur, la douleur et l'ennui
Et l'insouciance qui nous fuit
Voila le vide qui me remplit

A l'antenne aujourd'hui
J'entends que l'on meurt, que l'on -
Et l'insouciance qui nous fuit
L'insouciance qui n'a pas de prix

Sorry. Back to the Dordogne.


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## BackinFrance

EuroTrash said:


> Well go on then - don't just say "wrong", enlighten me!


Best I can think of is lack of awareness.


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> Best I can think of is lack of awareness.


i must say i do not like you saying that about me either


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## Bevdeforges

OK - enough of the personal remarks here. You've been warned.


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## SPGW

Allow me to chip in. In your search, I wouldn't tie yourself down to Brittany or Dordogne. As the comments indicate, there are almost as many opinions as responses, and Fr is big. You may have to compromise on the coast vs countryside for decent rivers, and I would say there are large parts of central-west France that meet most of your criteria if you relegate scuba diving to an occasional trip. This area is also better climate-wise for your veggies, than further north (Brittany) or further south (Dordogne), account taken of current and future trends. Look at downstream Creuse and Vienne rivers...No doubt east too, which I know less well, but coming across from Germany you probably explored these areas and have already decided to look further west. You'll be hard pushed to avoid windy roads if you want anywhere rural, though.

To me, "carefree" fits _insousciant_, and is probably not a good choice of word in the context, in either language.
Good luck with your search.


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## LFBEUSTON

EuroTrash said:


> Carelessness more as in not having a care in the world, I would say, rather than careless as in négligent, like forgetting to lock your car or knocking over a glass of wine. Un souci is a concern, a worry, Like you might have over your pension LOL. So if you are insouciant, you don't have any..
> "Lack of concern" is pretty close I think.


I have to agree with your definition, more or less! I always believed it to mean 'indifferent'. So, before writing I checked , in an English dictionary! Its full meaning = Calm and untroubled=carefree= and yes, indifferent. Adj (F) It is an English word and I wonder why there is confusion with it. Like many words in the English language the origin is French but we should know our own language!!


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## Befuddled

Re: the aversion to windy roads
The best way to avoid carsickness is to do the driving yourself. Much like avoiding seasickness in a small boat, doing the steering yourself concentrates the mind away from what your stomach is telling you. If you always endeavour to avoid curves you will end up on autoroutes and boring main roads and see very little of what is beautiful in France. 
I'm reminded of my road trip on Route 66. Didn't see a damned thing apart from the distant horizon. I was so thankful (decades ago) when I spotted a series of Burma Shave signs to break the boredom.


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## rynd2it

Have you tried the wrist bands? Work wonders for sea sickness


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## tout va bien

Bevdeforges said:


> OK - enough of the personal remarks here. You've been warned.


 hi bev, if it is me that is being inapproptiate, please tell me so i can change. this forum and it's members are important to me and i do not want to make trouble. thank you, deb


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## tout va bien

SPGW said:


> Allow me to chip in. In your search, I wouldn't tie yourself down to Brittany or Dordogne. As the comments indicate, there are almost as many opinions as responses, and Fr is big. You may have to compromise on the coast vs countryside for decent rivers, and I would say there are large parts of central-west France that meet most of your criteria if you relegate scuba diving to an occasional trip. This area is also better climate-wise for your veggies, than further north (Brittany) or further south (Dordogne), account taken of current and future trends. Look at downstream Creuse and Vienne rivers...No doubt east too, which I know less well, but coming across from Germany you probably explored these areas and have already decided to look further west. You'll be hard pushed to avoid windy roads if you want anywhere rural, though.
> 
> To me, "carefree" fits insouciant _,_ and is probably not a good choice of word in the context, in either language.
> Good luck with your search.
> [/QUOTE


thank you for your reply. in one of my other posts on here i did say that i often feel sure that i know what i want, but often end up with something completely different. if there is a great lake or or river close by then no place is really out of consideration. we have a plan, but we really don't know at this point where we end up. one of the big attractions of brittany is access to plentiful shellfish at hopefully lower prices than other areas of france. it might seem less important to other people, but after moving from northern california to virginia, the lack of quality shellfish here is very disappointing. yes, scuba diving would be occasional and mostly limited to tropical vacations. my husband does love the burgundy area and we have had some holidays there, but i have to have a lake or river. yes, we are very familiar with eastern france from north to south and it is not for us other than the far southeast, but we feel it is too expensive for what we want. the winding rural roads will be a problem. my motion sickness has ruined many days on cruiseships, when we lived on a catamaran for a few months, and obviously in cars on holidays. i did take pills and wore a wristband when on the ocean. i am willing to wear the wristband, but still fear it might not be good enough. we do not want to very rural because we would like to make lots of friends and be involved in an active community. we might all want to do some volunteer work .in the beginning of our life in france i think we will be busy traveling most of summer so gardening will be done more as we grow older and want to limit our travel. i think what i take from your post is that i should keep an open mind and i might be surprised. deb


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## SPGW

hi deb,


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## tout va bien

Befuddled said:


> Re: the aversion to windy roads
> The best way to avoid carsickness is to do the driving yourself. Much like avoiding seasickness in a small boat, doing the steering yourself concentrates the mind away from what your stomach is telling you. If you always strive to avoid curves you will end up on autoroutes and boring main roads and see very little of what is beautiful in France.
> I'm reminded of my road trip on Route 66. Didn't see a damned thing apart from the distant horizon. I was so thankful (decades ago) when I spotted a series of Burma Shave signs to break the boredom.


what you say is true, but my husband prefers to drive. as we get older, i prefer my driving over his, haha. i also agree about the main roads being boring and expensive due to tolls. however, sometimes i do like to get somewhere fast. on one trip to paris when our daughter was one, we decided to leave after a couple of days because it was uncomfortable to go to the places we wanted to with her. at that age her needs took precedence over ours. we just start driving with no plan and ended up winding our way to chateau chinon. it was one of our best trips in france. i don't even remember being carsick on that trip. deb


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## SPGW

tout va bien said:


> i think what i take from your post is that i should keep an open mind and i might be surprised


yep (oops hit "post reply" instead of "insert quote") and dare I say it, remain abit carefree 
I wouldn't worry about access to good seafood and shell fish, at least in my experience, there is fantastic distribution inland, in fact Madrid always strikes me as one of the best places in Spain for shellfish and you couldn(t get further from the sea.


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## SPGW

well, while there's diesel fuel that is.


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## Bevdeforges

tout va bien said:


> hi bev, if it is me that is being inapproptiate, please tell me so i can change. this forum and it's members are important to me and i do not want to make trouble. thank you, deb


The forum software doesn't allow for "addressing" comments to individuals (or to "everyone") within a thread. My comment was a general one, based on the direction the discussion seemed to be taking.


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## tout va bien

rynd2it said:


> Have you tried the wrist bands? Work wonders for sea sickness


thank you, yes i have, but i would prefer to not be dependent on a wristband or pills on a regular basis. deb


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## tout va bien

SPGW said:


> well, while there's diesel fuel that is.


I agree. we are hoping to go with an all electric car in france and depending on where we live, perhaps a scooter. deb


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## Chrissippus

I notice that while making retirement plans few people plan for the period when they will no longer be able to drive a car safely. I have seen in my own family that when that day inevitably arrives some places, such as American suburbs, become virtually uninhabitable without an automobile.

For myself I would only consider a largish city with ample public transportation as a retirement destination for that reason.


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## LFBEUSTON

tout va bien said:


> hi, we are americans who will be moving to france in the next couple of years when my husband finally decides to retire. our two young adult children will be moving with us. we are not concerned about being allowed to become residents, this is about where we should be looking please. we lived in germany for 5 years and spent a lot of time visiting france, but living somewhere is not the same as being on holiday. being near a river, lake or the sea is very important to us. we also do like the change of seasons, but like goldilocks, not too hot and not too cold. my daughter and i get very carsick so serious winding roads to leave our house wont work for us. so here is what we like to do----kayak, paddleboard, ride bikes leisurely not mountain biking, swimming or playing in the water, scuba diving occasionally, fishing, walking and hiking but not too difficult on our old knees, picnics near water, visiting markets for food and other things, drinking hot chocolate at home in front of a fire in winter, some vegetable and flower gardening, playing with our dog and cats, traveling in france and to other countries. we prefer beaches that have some rocks-more like coves, than miles of golden sand with no trees for shade. we like to eat out at lunch and sometimes for dinner as we do like to take naps. it would be amazing to be able to walk or ride a bike to nearby restaurants. if the town had some places to eat and shop that would be great, driving 20 minutes to a large town is good too. if we choose the dordogne, where are the public access points to park a car and put a kayak or paddleboard in the water? when i looked on google it seemed much of the river has houses or fenced off areas that do not allow access. i know i am asking for a lot, but i thought i would ask for everything we want and then make compromises as necessary. thank you to anyone who gives an opinion and i value all opinions. please write if you have anything at all to say. deb


If you really want a near perfect climate, the seaside with gleaming beaches, sea food that is delicious, kayaking, surfing, scuba ,fishing and walking then look no further than the pays Basque! There might even be a flat road around somewhere to ride a bike on, though I haven't found one!!!!!


Chrissippus said:


> I notice that while making retirement plans few people plan for the period when they will no longer be able to drive a car safely. I have seen in my own family that when that day inevitably arrives some places, such as American suburbs, become virtually uninhabitable without an automobile.
> 
> For myself I would only consider a largish city with ample public transportation as a retirement destination for that reason.


Personally I think it rather a shame that people that people go to such lengths in planning retirement. We all do it to some degree, I started a pension scheme at the ripe old age of 18 years old! So it is prudent to plan ahead. To what degree though! I see people now 'planning' their retirement and almost retiring from life itself!!! I wonder why perhaps they don't get it over and done with and pop off to Switzerland for the ultimate 'holiday'!


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## Clic Clac

We're looking at Caen for a possible move (why not? we've looked at everywhere else. ).
I can't afford to move back to England, and none of their million+ vacancies seem to be open to the over-60s.

There are lots of English speaking/teaching jobs in and around Caen; access to the D-Day beaches which is a big interest of mine, ferries to England for easy access holidays,
and easy access to Brittany for the fish and fishing.

'What's not to like?' Perhaps the climate?
I grew up next to the North Sea, so I'm used to a bit of weather, but I don't want to move and live under a fog-bound rain cloud... 💨🌨


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## 1790260

Chrissippus said:


> I notice that while making retirement plans few people plan for the period when they will no longer be able to drive a car safely.


We're thinking of relocating to a town (we currently live rurally) because we are car dependant. There will come a time when we no longer can/want to drive but, at the moment, it's more the cost of motor vehicles that's the concern; nearly a third of our outgoings are vehicle related.


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## Chrissippus

appunti said:


> We're thinking of relocating to a town (we currently live rurally) because we are car dependant. There will come a time when we no longer can/want to drive but, at the moment, it's more the cost of motor vehicles that's the concern; nearly a third of our outgoings are vehicle related.


Doesn't surprise me. When I lived in New York City I figured not owning a car saved me $6000 to $8000 per year. Year after year It adds up.


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## tout va bien

Chrissippus said:


> I notice that while making retirement plans few people plan for the period when they will no longer be able to drive a car safely. I have seen in my own family that when that day inevitably arrives some places, such as American suburbs, become virtually uninhabitable without an automobile.
> 
> For myself I would only consider a largish city with ample public transportation as a retirement destination for that reason.


hello. i understand what you are saying about age and driving safely. unless things change, our 28 year old son and 34 year old daughter plan to move with us and we would all live in the same house. so we have built-in drivers unless they decide to get their own places. i have also thought that we want to be near a town that would meet most if not all of our needs. i feel that if we needed to, we would move to a townhouse or apartment in a town where we would not need a car. we don't want to be isolated in the country, even at the beginning of our life in france. thank you for responding. deb


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## tout va bien

LFBEUSTON said:


> If you really want a near perfect climate, the seaside with gleaming beaches, sea food that is delicious, kayaking, surfing, scuba ,fishing and walking then look no further than the pays Basque! There might even be a flat road around somewhere to ride a bike on, though I haven't found one!!!!!
> 
> Personally I think it rather a shame that people that people go to such lengths in planning retirement. We all do it to some degree, I started a pension scheme at the ripe old age of 18 years old! So it is prudent to plan ahead. To what degree though! I see people now 'planning' their retirement and almost retiring from life itself!!! I wonder why perhaps they don't get it over and done with and pop off to Switzerland for the ultimate 'holiday'!


hello. i appreciate your suggestion of the pays basque area. it sounds like it has many of the things we are looking for, i will do some looking there. i agree about some people 'retiring from life'. i recall that my grandparents, great aunts, great uncles and our neighbors of retirement age seemed to spend their days watching television, visiting each other and smoking a lot of cigarettes. we and our friends that are our age or near to our age are not living that lifestyle or anything near it. we have been active, are active and want to continue to be as active as we can as we age. i want new adventures, to see new places, to experience new to me cultures and food, enjoy the outdoors and not become a 'couch potato'. deb


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## tout va bien

Clic Clac said:


> We're looking at Caen for a possible move (why not? we've looked at everywhere else. ).
> I can't afford to move back to England, and none of their million+ vacancies seem to be open to the over-60s.
> 
> There are lots of English speaking/teaching jobs in and around Caen; access to the D-Day beaches which is a big interest of mine, ferries to England for easy access holidays,
> and easy access to Brittany for the fish and fishing.
> 
> 'What's not to like?' Perhaps the climate?
> I grew up next to the North Sea, so I'm used to a bit of weather, but I don't want to move and live under a fog-bound rain cloud... 💨🌨


hello clic clac. it sounds like you might have found what you are looking for in caen. i hope it works out for you, if not i am sure you will eventually find the right place. i don't want to live under a fog bound rain cloud either. deb


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## tout va bien

appunti said:


> We're thinking of relocating to a town (we currently live rurally) because we are car dependant. There will come a time when we no longer can/want to drive but, at the moment, it's more the cost of motor vehicles that's the concern; nearly a third of our outgoings are vehicle related.


hello. i understand about being car dependent. when we moved to virginia i wanted a house/farm that we could hike from. we did not get that because we fell in love with our farm. we must drive everywhere, but fortunately the appalachian trail and shenandoah river are close by. at this time we plan to purchase an all electric car when we settle. what is it that costs so much, is it taxes, gas, insurance, maintenance? deb


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## tout va bien

Chrissippus said:


> Doesn't surprise me. When I lived in New York City I figured not owning a car saved me $6000 to $8000 per year. Year after year It adds up.


i agree, it certainly isn't a negligible cost. deb


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## 1790260

tout va bien said:


> at this time we plan to purchase an all electric car when we settle. what is it that costs so much, is it taxes, gas, insurance, maintenance?


Maintenance, repairs etc are the deal breakers tbh but gas (diesel) isn't cheap either. 

We're thinking of electric but, tbh, they are expensive - even with some of the grants the govt offer.


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## rynd2it

appunti said:


> Maintenance, repairs etc are the deal breakers tbh but gas (diesel) isn't cheap either.
> 
> We're thinking of electric but, tbh, they are expensive - even with some of the grants the govt offer.


A neighbour has just bought a new Kia plug-in hybrid and is mega pleased with it; consumption overall of petrol is around 75 mpg. He got some incredible deals from the government and the dealer amounting to several thousand euros. It happened because his old diesel Toureg failed it's CT and the bonus for trading it in was more than what he'd paid for it.


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## tout va bien

appunti said:


> Maintenance, repairs etc are the deal breakers tbh but gas (diesel) isn't cheap either.
> 
> We're thinking of electric but, tbh, they are expensive - even with some of the grants the govt offer.


thank you, i assume prices for maintenance and repairs are more expensive than in the u.s., but i could be wrong. i also think cars are more expensive in france. my husband and daughter ride to work together in our subaru, which is very inexpensive to maintain. i don't leave our farm very often. when i do leave i use our 12 year old mercedes suv that we use as a farm car or attach a trailer for larger farm needs and to pick up supplies. we do want an electric car and i understand that they are very expensive initially, but hopefully not in the long run as we keep our cars until they just can not be fixed anymore. i do worry about there being enough charging stations to make it feasible as our only and there is the large cost of having a charging station installed at our house. i feel like i can justify the purchase because it is better for the planet and better for future generations. when we lived in germany the company bought us a car, paid for all maintenance, repairs, and gas., we were very fortunate to have that. i know i am older, but it seems the price of cars and their upkeep has risen far more than it should compared to salaries and retirement benefits. i am at least glad to hear that there are some govt grants to offset the cost. we need to keep trying and try harder to reduce or eliminate our dependence on oil. that is my opinion anyway. i hope your situation works out to your satisfaction. deb


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## tout va bien

rynd2it said:


> A neighbour has just bought a new Kia plug-in hybrid and is mega pleased with it; consumption overall of petrol is around 75 mpg. He got some incredible deals from the government and the dealer amounting to several thousand euros. It happened because his old diesel Toureg failed it's CT and the bonus for trading it in was more than what he'd paid for it.


wow, that is great. hopefully it can happen for a lot more people! deb


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## rynd2it

tout va bien said:


> wow, that is great. hopefully it can happen for a lot more people! deb


Cars are more expensive in Europe generally and France in particular. Maintenance is expensive as well and not generally good quality. I took my Lexus SUV in for its annual service, gave the garage the job list (about 30 items) they only changed the oil, not even the filter😯 and charged me 85 euros. 
Also, if you want a new car you'll end up waiting about three months, not drive off the lot the same day. It's different here 😉


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## tout va bien

rynd2it said:


> Cars are more expensive in Europe generally and France in particular. Maintenance is expensive as well and not generally good quality. I took my Lexus SUV in for its annual service, gave the garage the job list (about 30 items) they only changed the oil, not even the filter😯 and charged me 85 euros.
> Also, if you want a new car you'll end up waiting about three months, not drive off the lot the same day. It's different here 😉


that is sad about the your car not being serviced properly and being expensive. we better plan ahead if it is going to take 3 months to get a car. thank you for the advice. deb


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## rynd2it

tout va bien said:


> that is sad about the your car not being serviced properly and being expensive. we better plan ahead if it is going to take 3 months to get a car. thank you for the advice. deb


3 months for a new one but used is easier, couple of days usually. You can rent cheaply from Leclerc, about 5 euros a day plus mileage


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## Bevdeforges

tout va bien said:


> at this time we plan to purchase an all electric car when we settle. what is it that costs so much, is it taxes, gas, insurance, maintenance? deb


Actually, the answer to your question is "yes." (Well, maybe not so much the "maintenance" part - electric vehicles, and many hybrids are actually much easier to maintain than petrol powered cars.)

But we're waiting out our second order on an electric car. First one fell through because the dealership seems to only really want to lease cars these days, not sell them. After 9 months of waiting with no delivery date in site, my husband cancelled the order, got his deposit back and we placed an order for another brand, another model of electric car (through a different dealership). We've been promised delivery in "two to three months" on the new vehicle but we'll see when we get it. (The manufacturer has a very different set up for their ev production than the first one.)

On an ev, you get breaks on the taxes and (obviously) gas. Maintenance as I said should be quite a bit less than for a "thermic" car given the fewer parts to break down. But the vehicle itself costs considerably more than a thermic vehicle - even with all the subsidies. Depending on where you're living you may or may not be able to install an at-home charger, though there are subsidies for that, too, and it is apparently possible to charge (very slowly) from a properly set up "regular" electrical outlet in your garage. (We'll let you know once we actually get the car.)

But car ownership is more expensive here than in the US. There are periodic inspections that are fairly extensive and, if you fail certain tests, you have to fix the problem promptly or the car can be taken off the road. (OTOH, to transfer registration for a used vehicle, the seller has to provide a recent inspection document so in general the car up for sale is in working order.) Gas/diesel is considerably more expensive here than in the US - though the "economies" of an electric vehicle may be put to the test with the rate at which electric rates are rising in the current climate.

You mention that your kids will move over with you. I'm assuming that you must have an EU nationality in the family - but if not, the adult kids will have to qualify on their own for a long-stay visa. (Though you may already be well aware of that. Just like to "remind" any lurkers.)


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## ccm47

Clic Clac,
Years back when I was still teaching in secondary schools in the UK I led a kids' exchange visit to Caen: avoid Hérouville Saint Clair (huge HLM estate with a problem population) and beware of Mondeville built for the steel workers but the steel plant is now closed. I don't know how successfully the staff transferred to other jobs. Otherwise a nice place.


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## Befuddled

Bevdeforges said:


> Actually, the answer to your question is "yes." (Well, maybe not so much the "maintenance" part - electric vehicles, and many hybrids are actually much easier to maintain than petrol powered cars.)
> 
> But we're waiting out our second order on an electric car. First one fell through because the dealership seems to only really want to lease cars these days, not sell them. After 9 months of waiting with no delivery date in site, my husband cancelled the order, got his deposit back and we placed an order for another brand, another model of electric car (through a different dealership). We've been promised delivery in "two to three months" on the new vehicle but we'll see when we get it. (The manufacturer has a very different set up for their ev production than the first one.)
> 
> On an ev, you get breaks on the taxes and (obviously) gas. Maintenance as I said should be quite a bit less than for a "thermic" car given the fewer parts to break down. But the vehicle itself costs considerably more than a thermic vehicle - even with all the subsidies. Depending on where you're living you may or may not be able to install an at-home charger, though there are subsidies for that, too, and it is apparently possible to charge (very slowly) from a properly set up "regular" electrical outlet in your garage. (We'll let you know once we actually get the car.)
> 
> But car ownership is more expensive here than in the US. There are periodic inspections that are fairly extensive and, if you fail certain tests, you have to fix the problem promptly or the car can be taken off the road. (OTOH, to transfer registration for a used vehicle, the seller has to provide a recent inspection document so in general the car up for sale is in working order.) Gas/diesel is considerably more expensive here than in the US - though the "economies" of an electric vehicle may be put to the test with the rate at which electric rates are rising in the current climate.
> 
> You mention that your kids will move over with you. I'm assuming that you must have an EU nationality in the family - but if not, the adult kids will have to qualify on their own for a long-stay visa. (Though you may already be well aware of that. Just like to "remind" any lurkers.)


Correction:
Failing the Controle Technique (C.T.) road worthiness test unless there is a very dangerous fail allows you two months to fix the fault. To transfer registration of the vehicle it does not have to pass the test, only to have been tested. The test includes verification of identity which avoids buying a "cloned" vehicle. 
As well as the very high initial cost, limited range, and questions about recharge points there is also battery life of an electric car to consider. Once the battery starts to age, the range reduces and the resale value of the car drops like a stone. Unless you have considerable resources to hand, an electric car makes less sense than people realise.
Luckily I know one end of a screwdriver from the other and have always done my own repairs, including all the major operations, rebuilds, etc. I consider I am very fortunate as it allows me to carry on with conventional vehicles and retain my mobility. Otherwise my limited UK pension would prevent me from owning a car and therefore have to give up my independence. Living in a rural setting makes living worthwhile. Living in a city would crush my spirit.


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## Bevdeforges

For those who want to discuss the issues of climate change, decarbonisation of the planet, etc. I have moved some of the posts over to the Bistro into a separate thread. See you there?


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## Leelee89

tout va bien said:


> hi, we are americans who will be moving to france in the next couple of years when my husband finally decides to retire. our two young adult children will be moving with us. we are not concerned about being allowed to become residents, this is about where we should be looking please. we lived in germany for 5 years and spent a lot of time visiting france, but living somewhere is not the same as being on holiday. being near a river, lake or the sea is very important to us. we also do like the change of seasons, but like goldilocks, not too hot and not too cold. my daughter and i get very carsick so serious winding roads to leave our house wont work for us. so here is what we like to do----kayak, paddleboard, ride bikes leisurely not mountain biking, swimming or playing in the water, scuba diving occasionally, fishing, walking and hiking but not too difficult on our old knees, picnics near water, visiting markets for food and other things, drinking hot chocolate at home in front of a fire in winter, some vegetable and flower gardening, playing with our dog and cats, traveling in france and to other countries. we prefer beaches that have some rocks-more like coves, than miles of golden sand with no trees for shade. we like to eat out at lunch and sometimes for dinner as we do like to take naps. it would be amazing to be able to walk or ride a bike to nearby restaurants. if the town had some places to eat and shop that would be great, driving 20 minutes to a large town is good too. if we choose the dordogne, where are the public access points to park a car and put a kayak or paddleboard in the water? when i looked on google it seemed much of the river has houses or fenced off areas that do not allow access. i know i am asking for a lot, but i thought i would ask for everything we want and then make compromises as necessary. thank you to anyone who gives an opinion and i value all opinions. please write if you have anything at all to say. deb


 Come to Auxerre! I'm American and moved here this year and love it. It's in northern Burgundy, on the beautiful Yonne river, an hour and a half by train to Paris, lots of pretty towns outside the small city (towns with vineyards, etc.), like Saint Bris, Chablis. Champs sur L'Yonne, etc. We live in the center of the town so can walk everywhere (including to the river and the shops) but with our large garden it feels like we're in the country. The weather has been gorgeous this year, although it's starting to get cold and wet (still, it's in the 50's and we're in the middle of November). There's lots to do here and the town is sooo pretty.


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## LFBEUSTON

Perhaps the start of an American enclave!!!


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## ClemTrout

tout va bien said:


> hi, we are americans who will be moving to france in the next couple of years when my husband finally decides to retire. our two young adult children will be moving with us. we are not concerned about being allowed to become residents, this is about where we should be looking please. we lived in germany for 5 years and spent a lot of time visiting france, but living somewhere is not the same as being on holiday. being near a river, lake or the sea is very important to us. we also do like the change of seasons, but like goldilocks, not too hot and not too cold. my daughter and i get very carsick so serious winding roads to leave our house wont work for us. so here is what we like to do----kayak, paddleboard, ride bikes leisurely not mountain biking, swimming or playing in the water, scuba diving occasionally, fishing, walking and hiking but not too difficult on our old knees, picnics near water, visiting markets for food and other things, drinking hot chocolate at home in front of a fire in winter, some vegetable and flower gardening, playing with our dog and cats, traveling in france and to other countries. we prefer beaches that have some rocks-more like coves, than miles of golden sand with no trees for shade. we like to eat out at lunch and sometimes for dinner as we do like to take naps. it would be amazing to be able to walk or ride a bike to nearby restaurants. if the town had some places to eat and shop that would be great, driving 20 minutes to a large town is good too. if we choose the dordogne, where are the public access points to park a car and put a kayak or paddleboard in the water? when i looked on google it seemed much of the river has houses or fenced off areas that do not allow access. i know i am asking for a lot, but i thought i would ask for everything we want and then make compromises as necessary. thank you to anyone who gives an opinion and i value all opinions. please write if you have anything at all to say. deb


We are Americans who have lived in France for 5 years...the last 4 in the Charente (department 16). We did a bunch of searching/researching after we arrived in 2017 (many departments and 100 houses in total). The Charente has all the things you seem to be looking for; Angouleme is a great small city with TGV access to Paris (2 hours) and Bordeaux (30 minutes) and a lot of charm. The area we live in is 25 minutes to Angouleme by car; 45 minutes to Cognac. It is predominantly rural with many villages and hamlets; many rivers and streams (we love to kayak); great cycling, etc. The ocean is 1.75 hours to the west (you can check out Charente Maritime (department 17). The weather is mild with abundant sunshine. You can check out our under-used to blog Witless Relocation Programme to check out some of our journey to date. Bon chance! Perhaps our paths will cross some time.


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## rynd2it

The Charente can be very hot in summer, this year we had 35+ temperatures for quite a long time and the drought meant we lost several plants in the garden. The OP would probably be better further North


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## suein56

rynd2it said:


> The Charente can be very hot in summer, this year we had 35+ temperatures for quite a long time and the drought meant we lost several plants in the garden. The OP would probably be better further North


We experienced just the same temps and lack of water this summer as you in our corner of southern Morbihan - which is north of the Charente. So perhaps Finisterre if you are still thinking of Brittany ?


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## tout va bien

Bevdeforges said:


> Actually, the answer to your question is "yes." (Well, maybe not so much the "maintenance" part - electric vehicles, and many hybrids are actually much easier to maintain than petrol powered cars.)
> 
> But we're waiting out our second order on an electric car. First one fell through because the dealership seems to only really want to lease cars these days, not sell them. After 9 months of waiting with no delivery date in site, my husband cancelled the order, got his deposit back and we placed an order for another brand, another model of electric car (through a different dealership). We've been promised delivery in "two to three months" on the new vehicle but we'll see when we get it. (The manufacturer has a very different set up for their ev production than the first one.)
> 
> On an ev, you get breaks on the taxes and (obviously) gas. Maintenance as I said should be quite a bit less than for a "thermic" car given the fewer parts to break down. But the vehicle itself costs considerably more than a thermic vehicle - even with all the subsidies. Depending on where you're living you may or may not be able to install an at-home charger, though there are subsidies for that, too, and it is apparently possible to charge (very slowly) from a properly set up "regular" electrical outlet in your garage. (We'll let you know once we actually get the car.)
> 
> But car ownership is more expensive here than in the US. There are periodic inspections that are fairly extensive and, if you fail certain tests, you have to fix the problem promptly or the car can be taken off the road. (OTOH, to transfer registration for a used vehicle, the seller has to provide a recent inspection document so in general the car up for sale is in working order.) Gas/diesel is considerably more expensive here than in the US - though the "economies" of an electric vehicle may be put to the test with the rate at which electric rates are rising in the current climate.
> 
> You mention that your kids will move over with you. I'm assuming that you must have an EU nationality in the family - but if not, the adult kids will have to qualify on their own for a long-stay visa. (Though you may already be well aware of that. Just like to "remind" any lurkers.)


thanks bev for sharing all those details about your experience and explaining the expenses, deb


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## tout va bien

Leelee89 said:


> Come to Auxerre! I'm American and moved here this year and love it. It's in northern Burgundy, on the beautiful Yonne river, an hour and a half by train to Paris, lots of pretty towns outside the small city (towns with vineyards, etc.), like Saint Bris, Chablis. Champs sur L'Yonne, etc. We live in the center of the town so can walk everywhere (including to the river and the shops) but with our large garden it feels like we're in the country. The weather has been gorgeous this year, although it's starting to get cold and wet (still, it's in the 50's and we're in the middle of November). There's lots to do here and the town is sooo pretty.


thanks for your recommendation, my husband does love that area. it sounds very nice and that you are living a wonderful life there. i will do some reading about the yonne river, deb


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## tout va bien

ClemTrout said:


> We are Americans who have lived in France for 5 years...the last 4 in the Charente (department 16). We did a bunch of searching/researching after we arrived in 2017 (many departments and 100 houses in total). The Charente has all the things you seem to be looking for; Angouleme is a great small city with TGV access to Paris (2 hours) and Bordeaux (30 minutes) and a lot of charm. The area we live in is 25 minutes to Angouleme by car; 45 minutes to Cognac. It is predominantly rural with many villages and hamlets; many rivers and streams (we love to kayak); great cycling, etc. The ocean is 1.75 hours to the west (you can check out Charente Maritime (department 17). The weather is mild with abundant sunshine. You can check out our under-used to blog Witless Relocation Programme to check out some of our journey to date. Bon chance! Perhaps our paths will cross some time.


thank you for the recommendation. the area sounds very nice, especially the rivers and streams. mild weatherc ould be very nice. i will definitely look at your blog, deb


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## tout va bien

suein56 said:


> We experienced just the same temps and lack of water this summer as you in our corner of southern Morbihan - which is north of the Charente. So perhaps Finisterre if you are still thinking of Brittany ?


i am surprised that there were such high temperatures and lack of water in morbihan. yes, perhaps even further north would be better, deb


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## Poloss

I'll just add that I particularly like La Rochelle and surroundings.
I won't go into details otherwise it'll take me hours


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## Clic Clac

Poloss said:


> I won't go into details otherwise it'll take me hours


That's not like you Polo. 😅 

Hope you are feeling ok. 🤗


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## tout va bien

Clic Clac said:


> That's not like you Polo. 😅
> 
> Hope you are feeling ok. 🤗


clic clac, my daughter and i had a huge laugh the first time i read her your tagline (is that what it is called?). that is exactly how she feels at her job. i told it to my husband this morning and we all laughed about it. i am going to choose a statement for myself. trying to decide between something affirmative or something like '**** happens and you just need to deal with it'. thanks for the inspiration, deb !


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## Clic Clac

tout va bien said:


> clic clac, my daughter and i had a huge laugh the first time i read her your tagline (is that what it is called?). that is exactly how she feels at her job.


_*'Signature'.*_

You're welcome. We try to please.
In these miserable, dark days before Christmas it was the only one I could think of that was printable.  😅

Job related 'You don't have to be mad to work here - but it helps.'
'Your urgency is not my emergency.'
'Hold on ! Let me drop everything and work on your problem.'
'Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.'

U.S. 'In God We Trust - everyone else pays cash.'


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## Poloss

Clic Clac said:


> That's not like you Polo. 😅
> 
> Hope you are feeling ok. 🤗


Thanks for your kind thoughts 
In fact this morning when I posted, we were trying to choose a new vacuum cleaner among thousands ...
Which, as you can imagine - is quite a challenge

You're quite right, I'm often much more expansive
but I've long hesitated about chipping in to the thread with La Rochelle
but the moment wasn't yet ripe - we were in Brittany and Basque country.
and I hold back from going full head-on with unsollicited waffle

of course you're wondering about the vacuum cleaner;





E.Leclerc







www.e.leclerc


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## BackinFrance

Poloss said:


> of course you're wondering about the vacuum cleaner;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E.Leclerc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.e.leclerc


Snap, but a couple of weeks ago.


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## Clic Clac

Poloss said:


> In fact this morning when I posted, we were trying to choose a new vacuum cleaner among thousands ...
> *Which*, as you can imagine - is quite a challenge


Well don't get 'sucked in' on this Black Friday mumbo.

Talking of _Which? they_'ve just reported that 98% of the offers they checked have been cheaper or the same price earlier in the year.


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## BackinFrance

Got an excellent price on mine before all the so-called offers. Would have bought it sooner but had problems with my card which turned out to be a problem with an update to my laptop. There are lots of less expensive balais électriques around, but this beat them all for me and what I needed.

Back to topic.


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## tout va bien

Clic Clac said:


> Well don't get 'sucked in' on this Black Friday mumbo.
> 
> Talking of _Which? they_'ve just reported that 98% of the offers they checked have been cheaper or the same price earlier in the year.


hello, is black friday as bad there as it is here? people go so crazy, spend the night outside stores, hurt other people trying to get into stores, and fight over items. it is sickening to me and so is the materialism mind set. our family has never participated in the madness. i guess years of advertising and habit have made the day have such importance. i totally agree with what you said about prices being the same or even lower earlier in the year or especially after christmas. however, i do admit i love to save money when and where i can, but living a somewhat simple life on our farm, i find i do not need or want very much and the latest high tech device is never on my list!


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## tout va bien

BackinFrance said:


> Got an excellent price on mine before all the so-called offers. Would have bought it sooner but had problems with my card which turned out to be a problem with an update to my laptop. There are lots of less expensive balais électriques around, but this beat them all for me and what I needed.
> 
> Back to topic.


hello, that is great that you got a good deal before black friday. i replied to clic clac to express my views on this ridiculous day, deb


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## BackinFrance

tout va bien said:


> hello, is black friday as bad there as it is here? people go so crazy, spend the night outside stores, hurt other people trying to get into stores, and fight over items. it is sickening to me and so is the materialism mind set. our family has never participated in the madness. i guess years of advertising and habit have made the day have such importance. i totally agree with what you said about prices being the same or even lower earlier in the year or especially after christmas. however, i do admit i love to save money when and where i can, but living a somewhat simple life on our farm, i find i do not need or want very much and the latest high tech device is never on my list!


No. Not nearly as bad in France as you say it is there. I hope it never gets that bad. 

I got my cleaner from the manufacturer's French website which doesn't seem to be participating in BF, but many of the stores here are selling those appliances as part of BF. I haven't seen a lower price for it, and certainly not with the accessories I got.


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## Bevdeforges

As BiF says, the Black Friday phenomenon here is very different from what you get back in the US. In many cases, stores have a "Black Friday week" or else multiple days of discounts in preparation for Christmas shopping, particularly on line shops. But there aren't the crazy "as long as supplies last" discounts that lead to the "door buster events" or the scenes of looting and pillaging that the TV news services seem to love to display over there. I suppose it helps that there is no Thanksgiving here, with the holiday giving most folks the only 4 day weekend of the year. (The French are famous for "making the bridge" for any holiday that falls on a Thursday, or a Tuesday, or often, even on a Wednesday!)


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## Befuddled

Clic Clac said:


> Well don't get 'sucked in' on this Black Friday mumbo.
> 
> Talking of _Which? they_'ve just reported that 98% of the offers they checked have been cheaper or the same price earlier in the year.


That is totally predictable. And much the same nonsense as so-called massive price reductions any other time of year. Usually easy to spot because they say something like "50% off" when you know nobody would dream of paying double the offer price. If it was that easy to cut 50% then they were seriously ripping people off expecting to pay that fictitious original price.


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## BackinFrance

https://www.quechoisir.org/actualite-black-friday-2022-de-nouvelles-regles-mais-encore-des-mauvaises-pratiques-n104011/



You should be able to read this article from the most trusted consumer organization on France.


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