# Dismissed from job - warning to 457 visa applicants!!



## pwholmes (May 23, 2009)

I really love this place, the weather, scenery, lifestyle and Brisbane is beautiful but I have to return to the UK.

Why??

My former company, a large multinational supposedly respectable engineering consultancy has had to cut staff and I am one of the cuts, although I am not alone, they have ditched me and my family with the minimum legal payoff.

We are in severe difficulties and they dont give a damn!! We arrived on Dec 1st last and I was informed two months ago that I was underperforming (OK, the job was a business development job and I am not a salesman but the projects here in Brisbane have dried up - no one in my office had any work and most railway projects are on hold!!!) and given a piece of paper to sign agreeing to extend my probationary period (I had no choice, if I hadn't signed I would have been out of the door then!!). Since then I have tried my utmost and thought I was doing OK ("Light at the end of the tunnel", my boss said. "The next person to go will be me", my boss's boss said. "We are going to do OK" my boss's boss's boss said. Liars!!)

At the end of last month we were called to a section meeting at 0900. I was taken aside at 0850 and told to clear my desk. I would be leaving that day with one weeks pay and an air ticket back to the UK for me and my family with 28 days to find another job. I was then escorted off the premises with a taxi ticket home.

The severance pay was one week, minus two days - $1991. Minus two days because at Easter I went back to the UK thinking my job was secure to see my sick mother and had to have two days advance leave. They could have warned me when they saw me go!!

As to other assistance - zilch. I have a $7000 deficit on my credit card due to the costs I accrued when I got here to set up home, a lease to break that will most likely end up in court (I have 7 months to run on a lease at $2500 pcm that I am liable for until December if they cannot pay a replacement and it will cost me $8000 to shift my stuff back to the UK.

How am I going to do this?? I dont know.

When am I going to be thrown out?

Nobody knows - the DIAC keep telling me different things - the best got from the local DIAC supervisor was that the rules say I have 28 days from the day I lost my job when I will be sent a notice of cancellation 5 days later but there are so many people now being dismissed and having their 457s cancelled that they are snowed under and, anyway, "... it depends on how your case Immigration Officer feels on the day....".

Did I hear right?? This in the welfare of my family you are talking about.

My former company will only give me the cheapest, most inflexible tickets they can get.. real bucket shop stuff. If I have my visa cancelled they are then out of their obligation to expatriate me, or so they say.

This really is bestial.

As to other jobs - forget it. Companies here are digging in and cutting costs (some have shed 30% of their workforce) - note that my former company didn't sack any locals - only expats and as to legal redress I have little. On a 457 you have 28 days and that's it - out of Oz, and they are only liable for your airfares. Lease breaking, effects transhipment costs, any other debts you have is just bad luck, mate, bye-bye.

I have tried legal aid, the Council of Unions, the Workplace Ombudsman, the Business Monitoring unit - nothing. No one will help us. The British Consulate informed me that the limit of their assistance is to allow me to make phone calls to the UK to lend money from my family. My parents are pensioners living on disability allowances.

As for finding other jobs - forget it. The workplace here has collapsed. I sent my CV to 42 agencies in Brisbane and followed them all up. Only 4 had any suitable vacancies (I was prepared to do anything at half my previous salary) but, with one exception the jobs were given to Ozzies.

Seriously, this isn't the land of milk and honey anymore and coming here was the biggest mistake I have ever made. If you have a secure job anywhere else, thank your lucky stars and sit tight for year or two. If you can come here on full citizenship it maybe OK but to come here on what has transpired to be the lack of protection offered by a 457 visa - think again. These are great when the economy is buoyant but treacherous is the current economic climate.


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## Dolly (Feb 17, 2008)

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

I am so so sorry that you're having such an awful time...I cannot imagine the stress you must be under.

The only thing I can think of (because you've covered everything else - and good for you) is to try a different State for work. Off hand, I can't remember if you are tied to a State on the 457?

I'm sorry I can't come up with anything of more help.....I just hope you manage to find a solution quickly.

Dolly


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## pwholmes (May 23, 2009)

Dolly said:


> Hi there and welcome to the forum.
> 
> I am so so sorry that you're having such an awful time...I cannot imagine the stress you must be under.
> 
> ...


Its too late, really, Dolly. If the DIAC keep to their worst case scenario, we have 2 weeks. When I asked what would happen, worst case, if we hadn't made the relocation arrangements (Terminated lease, shipped effects, sold car, arranged flights etc etc) by the time our visas were cancelled we were told that my former company would no longer have to pay flights and we would be shipped as illegals to a holding location, followed by forcible deportation and the forfeiture of all of our belongings.

I know that that is the worst case scenario but we were left in no doubt that we had to start leaving processes NOW!!!


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

HI pw, thanks for sharing your experience, this will make everyone more cautious while deciding the move.

hope things get better for u in teh near future.

anj


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## mpgrewal (Feb 22, 2009)

pwholmes said:


> Only 4 had any suitable vacancies (I was prepared to do anything at half my previous salary) but, with one exception the jobs were given to Ozzies.


Ozzies means what Aussie citizen by birth OR even immigrant PR

If its the former, its pure discrimination??? Isn't it


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## pwholmes (May 23, 2009)

mpgrewal said:


> Ozzies means what Aussie citizen by birth OR even immigrant PR
> 
> If its the former, its pure discrimination??? Isn't it


Yes, I suppose it is but how can I do anything about it. I dont know if they were Ozzies by birth, all I know is that the few jobs available went to "locals".

I dont blame them, when times are as bad as they are, its the norm (and cheaper!!) throughout the world to sack the expats and protect the locals - I've seen it in the UK, Hongkong Taiwan and the UAE.

I just want to warn others to make some contingency plans just in case.... and dont expect any help if it all goes belly up. As for the "resettlement councilors" etc that the company put my way.. forget it. Nothing more than soothing words and practically no help at all. Their main role was to sooth what little there is of the corporate conscience of the company that ditched us in the mire and of no use or ornament to us.


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## nihariku (May 24, 2009)

Hi, Pw, 
this is awful? why 28 days, what is that deadline? how long have u been in Australia? does it not-the 257 visa entitle u to work or study for 3 yrs have u reached the end of that time? or are their additional agreements at DIAC

The reason I ask these is because we are planning to move to adelaide under 457 visa and got state sponsorship and waiting for the medical test

Pls explain if u can
NK


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## jilkfree1978 (May 23, 2009)

im sure 475 is state sponsorship not 457! 
i have looked 457 is buisness sponsorship!



nihariku said:


> Hi, Pw,
> this is awful? why 28 days, what is that deadline? how long have u been in Australia? does it not-the 257 visa entitle u to work or study for 3 yrs have u reached the end of that time? or are their additional agreements at DIAC
> 
> The reason I ask these is because we are planning to move to adelaide under 457 visa and got state sponsorship and waiting for the medical test
> ...


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## Sono (Feb 1, 2009)

Man pwholmes...I feel awful for you. Thank you for sharing your advice and experience. It is good for people to remember to always be ready for a "rainy day". 
I hope having a PR visa will give us a little more stability. Such a shame this has happened to you and your family. I wish you the best.


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## geordiejones36 (Apr 17, 2009)

Hi pw,

Sorry to hear about you losing your job, i really hope you manage to turn things around and can stay in Oz.

Regards,

Mark


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## kaz101 (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi pwholmes, 

Thanks for sharing and I'm sorry that it hasn't worked out well for you. 

It's something that everyone moving here has to consider when applying for a visa. That's why we went for PR (by the way you can't move here as a citizen so I think you meant Permanent Resident) because we couldn't get thrown out unless we broke the law. 

That doesn't mean that we get any financial help though. When things get tough financially for migrants they do get tough. That's why a lot of people on this forum stress about people coming over here having enough money to cope with anything that happens. 

As for jobs going to Aussies I would expect that on the grounds that there is no sponsorship involved. I would also think that it's anyone with PR rather than Aussies. I know on most resumes here you don't have to put nationality or age now. 

I hope that something good comes your way.

Regards,
Karen


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi pw

how are things now? did u manage a job? any new development?


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## Byo (Nov 28, 2007)

pwholmes said:


> I really love this place, the weather, scenery, lifestyle and Brisbane is beautiful but I have to return to the UK.
> 
> Why??
> 
> ...


This happened to us too and we are still here and now Permanent Residents. You must realise that the 457 is temporary and you have to support yourself when out of work. My husband was out of work for 3 months, lucky we saved for a rainy day. The 28 days is only a guideline, it took my husband 1 month and not many interveiws to find a job, it was over the Christmas period so everything was on a go slow, we had a toddler and a 8 month old baby so I couldn't work. Eventually he found a job just before the new year and had to wait another six weeks for another 457 to be granted. If he hadn't have found another job the company would have to pay full relocation cost, thats flights and shipping. Did your company pay for your relocation, which they should have if they are a big compnany? I know how you feel, but if you can't afford to support yourself, I suggest you take the tickets as you won't be getting handouts from no-one. Good luck and all the best.


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## linger (Mar 26, 2009)

Hi pwholmes, I'm so sorry that things didnt go as you have planned..
My husband and I are actually waiting for our 457 visa grant. But we're hopeful that your circumstances will not happen to us (crossed fingers) since the company that sponsored my husband is the same company that we are in now (in our own country), and we have worked with them for more than 5 years now. But then again, after reading your post, it still gave me an uneasiness and worry... 

Given that, do you think it's best advice for 457 visa holders to start applying for P.R. (175 or 176) visa once they arrive in Australia? So at least its a fallback, if ever the company laid you off.. ? 

And to the "elders" of this site, what do you think are other options that the 457 visa holders can do so as to avoid being shipped back to their own country ?

(I used the word elders to indicate experienced migrants to this site, I'm not really pertaining to your age or anything.. :tongue: )


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## aussieland (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi PW,

i m really sorry to hear this thing n really hope that u get something out of the remaining days....


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## ktrianta (Feb 14, 2009)

Really sorry to hear the news man, that is really a lack of professionalism on your ex-companies behalf, and will sure come back to haunt them.

Unfortunately, that's the case with 457 visas...too many companies take advantage of its ease of use, and I really hope DIAC does something about it. They have to realize that whoever is here on a 457 has temporarily left their entire life back home for a short period of time, in order to help fill Australias' lack of key skills....and in the end, it's the 457 holders that pay the price.

If anything, they should be given longer that 28 days to find a new job or leave the country. That's ridiculous. 28 days to: end your lease, sell your car, tie up lose ends, and try and find a new job...insane. Most other countries give you 3 to 6 months to find another sponsorship, but not Oz.

Funny thing is a year from now, when the economy picks up, the 457 program will be in full swing, and employers will be struggling to fill available skilled positions. But hey, right now, lets get rid of who we can as fast as we can to save our own asses....that seems to be the motto.


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Linger:

In such an economic climate I would encourage people to go for PR when they arrive in AU (you can certainly fill out the forms beforehand and have the other checks ready to go). 

Try to go for a 856 if your employer is willing (this is an onshore PR visa that many 457s go for when want to go for PR). 

I did it this way: 457 --> 856, however I didn't do it immediately upon entering AU as I came when the economy was very strong, my skill in short supply and as I was single and without any serious financial commitments I took the calculated risk and waited for 2 yrs before going for 856 sponsorship with my employer.



linger said:


> Hi pwholmes, I'm so sorry that things didnt go as you have planned..
> My husband and I are actually waiting for our 457 visa grant. But we're hopeful that your circumstances will not happen to us (crossed fingers) since the company that sponsored my husband is the same company that we are in now (in our own country), and we have worked with them for more than 5 years now. But then again, after reading your post, it still gave me an uneasiness and worry...
> 
> Given that, do you think it's best advice for 457 visa holders to start applying for P.R. (175 or 176) visa once they arrive in Australia? So at least its a fallback, if ever the company laid you off.. ?
> ...


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## nihariku (May 24, 2009)

GUys, 
Does this mean Even if we have a State sponsorship things like this happen?

Pls enlighten me. You see I am having a nice job here-litigating lawyer- but children's future is the reason to go for aussi- statesponsored regional visa -to Adelaide 
What are the risks

NK


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi NK:

No, a 457 is a Temporary Business visa, while it's processed quickly it does have the risk that if you are not employed you have a short time to find another employer OR leave AU.

Most sponsored or independent visas are PR visas, for regional the main clause is you need to stay for at least 2 yrs in the region/state that sponsored you. If you lose your job you have time to find the next one and it's not time limited to something as small as 28 days. 



nihariku said:


> GUys,
> Does this mean Even if we have a State sponsorship things like this happen?
> 
> Pls enlighten me. You see I am having a nice job here-litigating lawyer- but children's future is the reason to go for aussi- statesponsored regional visa -to Adelaide
> ...


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## linger (Mar 26, 2009)

amaslam said:


> Hi Linger:
> 
> In such an economic climate I would encourage people to go for PR when they arrive in AU (you can certainly fill out the forms beforehand and have the other checks ready to go).
> 
> ...



Thanks amaslam! The company mentioned that they will be willing to help us get a P.R. after 18months of stay. But this wasn't mention in the employment contract and given the economic crisis, I really don't want to depend on it 100%. 
Another option we can do is apply for 176 because my husband has 2 brothers in Adelaide who are both P.R. already, but I'm not sure if we can apply on-shore because I saw in immi site that this is under off shore visa application category.

Anyways, let me get back to the pwholmes.. Don't you have children that are still in school? because I remember reading in one of the topics here that the family was able to stay for the rest of the school year and hence the dad was able to find a job....


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## Byo (Nov 28, 2007)

linger said:


> Hi pwholmes, I'm so sorry that things didnt go as you have planned..
> My husband and I are actually waiting for our 457 visa grant. But we're hopeful that your circumstances will not happen to us (crossed fingers) since the company that sponsored my husband is the same company that we are in now (in our own country), and we have worked with them for more than 5 years now. But then again, after reading your post, it still gave me an uneasiness and worry...
> 
> Given that, do you think it's best advice for 457 visa holders to start applying for P.R. (175 or 176) visa once they arrive in Australia? So at least its a fallback, if ever the company laid you off.. ?
> ...



Hi there

My husband was tranferred here from a UK company that he worked for - for 5 years in uk and then 3 years in Oz and he was made redundant after asking for PR so best to apply for a Permanant visa before you get here, that way you are in control. Especially if you have a family. And this was a International finance bank. On the upside the company that employed my husband after being made redundant, stuck to there word and a year after starting there they sponsored us fo rPR


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## nihariku (May 24, 2009)

*475 and not 457*



jilkfree1978 said:


> im sure 475 is state sponsorship not 457!
> i have looked 457 is buisness sponsorship!



ooPS MY MISTAKE IN READING THE NUMBERS
tHANKS A LOT FOR CORRECTING AND HELPING ME TO FOCUS

I STILL AM CONCERNED ABOUT PW HOLMS
PLS KKE IN TOUCH TAKE CARE U ALL
NK


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## joannecolgan (May 22, 2008)

*You are not alone 175 visa holder.*

Myself and my husband arrived here on the 2nd of Jan with 2 small childrenand we had been told that we would find work in sydney no problem we had my husbands trades assessed and he had be given the AQF the same as Australian trades get we had been to two trade expos in dublin promoting all the work australia had and when we got here there is none. We are lucky we did not sell our house or car in ireland but we did use all our savings up and have struggled here alot only for i was able to get a job insurance we would be on the street no one cares and the government wipe there hands of you we are PR Residence and it does not make any difference i will be making it public that no one should come here as there is no work. We have applied to now 156 jobs to date and registered with every agency in sydney and its the same story you need australian experience so there is jobs but only australians will get them.............................. You are right stay in your jobs do not come out here 





pwholmes said:


> I really love this place, the weather, scenery, lifestyle and Brisbane is beautiful but I have to return to the UK.
> 
> Why??
> 
> ...


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 2, 2009)

It's really sad to hear that many Filipinos are losing their jobs. It's the same for both here in the Philippines and overseas. I just hope we can all get through this crisis we are facing right now.


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## AussiePool (Aug 22, 2008)

I do feel sorry for you. Times are hard and yes they will give jobs to locals first if you haven't established yourself for a number of years. It's not discrimination, they are ALL told to protect local jobs. Canada did it to thousands of ex-pats in the 1930's.
I don't know what it's like elsewhere in the world as I have been in Oz for over 10 years (from UK) but let me tell you, the media has a HELL OF A LOT to answer for with this so-called recession. It didn't even need to affect Oz has much as it has....but they let it!
Good luck with whatever you do.....

Regards,


Paul


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## april (Jul 22, 2007)

My husband and I have fallen through the cracks too. I am Australian and he is here on a spouse visa. When we got married Centrelink cut my payments practically in half (I am a full-time student so I get Austudy). I rang up Centrelink and explained that my husband is still on a tourist visa and not allowed to work yet. But that didn't matter. Our rent is $240 a week but our income was only $160 a week. 

Fortunately I had enough savings for us to live off but I must say I am so relieved that he now has permission to work and has a job. Only casual but it is enough to cover living expenses. 

I definitely would not be moving my family across the world during these economical times. The only thing to make me move would be war/famine/some type of disaster seen only in Hollywood movies.


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## pwholmes (May 23, 2009)

*Latest Update*

Well, that's it then. No jobs so out we go and believe me I have looked and looked.

We are booked on a flight on Sat 13th June, furniture removers in on Thurs 11th/Fri 12th, tax return done, car sold & payed off, insurance cancelled, arrangements made with Foxtell, Big Pond, Telstra, AGL, Origin. Apartment/carpet cleaning half arranged to (hopefully) ensure we get our bond back.

As for the apartment - we have given notice to the agents that we are breaking the lease, filed the necessary papers with the Small Claims Court as they have today told us we must continue to pay the rent even though we ain't got a cent left (for some strange reason the words "blood-sucking" and "leeches" spring to mind) and all and sundry are lining up like vultures to pick what they can out of the carcase of our life. My poor son is beside himself with grief - he loves the school here (What's that someone said "....allowed to finish the school year....." .... I am afraid not, there's not a scintilla of compassion or charity in this place I am afraid . Those of you seeking to come here PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!!

All I want to do now is get out of this terrible place and back to somewhere we can call home.. albeit we will be penniless until I can get a job.

At least I can claim social security and child allowance in the UK (For the first time in my life I hasten to add having paid my taxes and stamp continuously since 1976).

A lot of decent folk here on this forum have sincerely expressed their sympathy. Thanks, but the reason that I am writing this is to warn folk about to come here that this place isn't the paradise it is cracked up to be. I have interfaced with many folk in the last 4 weeks (immigration agents, lawyers, recruitment agents, tenants associations, removals companies etc etc) and they all tell the same tale - they have seen a large increase in dismissed 457 visa holders in the same boat.

It works both ways, of course. The removals company owner is also busy with Ozzies returning home having lost their jobs in Europe, USA and Asia.

I will let you know the outcome of the Small Claims Tribunial.

Paul


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi

its sad. Wish you luck is all I can say.

Anj


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## SHU (Aug 19, 2008)

PwHolmes, hopes everything settled smoothly for you and have a great start ahead, best of luck!


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## nihariku (May 24, 2009)

SHU said:


> PwHolmes, hopes everything settled smoothly for you and have a great start ahead, best of luck!


We all at our home join in to Wish PW Holmes good Luck, Good Health and Success in the Future .It is really worrisome to hear your story and makes us think

Hope you have a safe journey back home

NK


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## Francie (Apr 5, 2009)

What line of work are you looking for? This seems really tough for you and your family. Do you know kids?

I really love this place, the weather, scenery, lifestyle and Brisbane is beautiful but I have to return to the UK.

Why??

My former company, a large multinational supposedly respectable engineering consultancy has had to cut staff and I am one of the cuts, although I am not alone, they have ditched me and my family with the minimum legal payoff.

We are in severe difficulties and they dont give a damn!! We arrived on Dec 1st last and I was informed two months ago that I was underperforming (OK, the job was a business development job and I am not a salesman but the projects here in Brisbane have dried up - no one in my office had any work and most railway projects are on hold!!!) and given a piece of paper to sign agreeing to extend my probationary period (I had no choice, if I hadn't signed I would have been out of the door then!!). Since then I have tried my utmost and thought I was doing OK ("Light at the end of the tunnel", my boss said. "The next person to go will be me", my boss's boss said. "We are going to do OK" my boss's boss's boss said. Liars!!)

At the end of last month we were called to a section meeting at 0900. I was taken aside at 0850 and told to clear my desk. I would be leaving that day with one weeks pay and an air ticket back to the UK for me and my family with 28 days to find another job. I was then escorted off the premises with a taxi ticket home.

The severance pay was one week, minus two days - $1991. Minus two days because at Easter I went back to the UK thinking my job was secure to see my sick mother and had to have two days advance leave. They could have warned me when they saw me go!!

As to other assistance - zilch. I have a $7000 deficit on my credit card due to the costs I accrued when I got here to set up home, a lease to break that will most likely end up in court (I have 7 months to run on a lease at $2500 pcm that I am liable for until December if they cannot pay a replacement and it will cost me $8000 to shift my stuff back to the UK.

How am I going to do this?? I dont know.

When am I going to be thrown out?

Nobody knows - the DIAC keep telling me different things - the best got from the local DIAC supervisor was that the rules say I have 28 days from the day I lost my job when I will be sent a notice of cancellation 5 days later but there are so many people now being dismissed and having their 457s cancelled that they are snowed under and, anyway, "... it depends on how your case Immigration Officer feels on the day....".

Did I hear right?? This in the welfare of my family you are talking about.

My former company will only give me the cheapest, most inflexible tickets they can get.. real bucket shop stuff. If I have my visa cancelled they are then out of their obligation to expatriate me, or so they say.

This really is bestial.

As to other jobs - forget it. Companies here are digging in and cutting costs (some have shed 30% of their workforce) - note that my former company didn't sack any locals - only expats and as to legal redress I have little. On a 457 you have 28 days and that's it - out of Oz, and they are only liable for your airfares. Lease breaking, effects transhipment costs, any other debts you have is just bad luck, mate, bye-bye.

I have tried legal aid, the Council of Unions, the Workplace Ombudsman, the Business Monitoring unit - nothing. No one will help us. The British Consulate informed me that the limit of their assistance is to allow me to make phone calls to the UK to lend money from my family. My parents are pensioners living on disability allowances.

As for finding other jobs - forget it. The workplace here has collapsed. I sent my CV to 42 agencies in Brisbane and followed them all up. Only 4 had any suitable vacancies (I was prepared to do anything at half my previous salary) but, with one exception the jobs were given to Ozzies.

Seriously, this isn't the land of milk and honey anymore and coming here was the biggest mistake I have ever made. If you have a secure job anywhere else, thank your lucky stars and sit tight for year or two. If you can come here on full citizenship it maybe OK but to come here on what has transpired to be the lack of protection offered by a 457 visa - think again. These are great when the economy is buoyant but treacherous is the current economic climate.[/QUOTE]


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## pwholmes (May 23, 2009)

*Latest news*

Some good news at last:

1) We have got a place for our son in the best school in the area in where we will live in the UK.

2) The landlord has agreed that we can leave at the end of this week as planned and break the lease without penalty. A letter of thanks due there I think.

That removes two of the five intractable problems we were facing.

Phew - some good news was desperately needed.

Paul


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

u will have more coming pw


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 2, 2009)

pwholmes said:


> Some good news at last:
> 
> 1) We have got a place for our son in the best school in the area in where we will live in the UK.
> 
> ...




that's so great to hear! keep the good news coming!!! :clap2:


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 2, 2009)

Keep the Faith!


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