# 189 SC VISA refusal-ACS(RPL) Case.



## akiimanu (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi Mates,

Today I was bombarded by CO's decision of refusal for 189 SC Software Engineer category.

Let me explain it here :

I have non ICT degree in "Bio-technology Engineering" with 7 years of experience.
I have relevant work experience of 7 years as a software engineer so I applied for
ACS- RPL ( Recognition of Prior Learning) on 24th March,2012 we got the positive outcome from ACS on 19th June. I am pasting a snippet from same here :

"Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.
The following employment after December 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code."

On the basis of this, I went ahead and claimed 10 points for work experience in our EOI.

Refusal:
======
Today I got an email from my CO, letting me know that VISA has been refused and all claimed 10 points have been deducted and our EOI left with 55 points only, hence the refusal.

Reason by CO:
===========
On the 20 July 2013 you provided in conjunction with your application a skills assessment from the Australian Computer Society (ACS) dated 19 June 2013 reference: XXXX. ACS provided an assessment of your work experience: Senior Software Engineer at XXXX (India) November 2006 – December 2009; Associate - Projects at XXXX(India) January 2010 – March 2011; Senior System Engineer at XXX (India) March 2011 – March 2013.

ACS made the following statement regarding your work experience:
The following employment after December 2012 is considered to equate to work at anappropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO code.

Following an assessment of your work experience I am not satisfied that you were employed in your nominated skilled occupation or a closely related skilled occupation, for at least 60 months in the months in the 10 years immediately before the time of invitation to apply for the visa and no points are awarded.

My Question to Forum:
================
According to ACS (old) if I have 6 years of experience I am eligible for 10 points in case of RPL too. People with RPl exp. please reply and help.

I have written to my assessor and his reply is as follows :

"The date provided in your skill assessment result letter is the date you have met the ACS requirements.

Your experience 11/06 to 12/12 has been considered in your skill assessment application in determining the outcome of your application.

You were required to demonstrate 6 years’ experience which was completed in 12/12

12/12 is the date you met the ACS requirements and is the date in which you have been deemed to reach the appropriate skilled level for your nominated occupation."

Please help in understanding the situation, what we should do next, is it a mistake from ACS in mentioning the reference letter or our CO has mistaken it.

Please reply we have very less time to revert to our CO.

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## dragoman (Mar 29, 2013)

ACS- RPL ( Recognition of Prior Learning) on 24th March,2012 we got the positive outcome from ACS on 19th June.

Is this 24th March 2012 or 2013 ? 

Dragoman


----------



## akiimanu (Feb 26, 2013)

dragoman said:


> ACS- RPL ( Recognition of Prior Learning) on 24th March,2012 we got the positive outcome from ACS on 19th June.
> 
> Is this 24th March 2012 or 2013 ?
> 
> Dragoman


oops sorry 2013.


----------



## dragoman (Mar 29, 2013)

Well Mate as I replied on other thread , your case is straightforward.

ACS as per new rules gave you a Skilled / Deeming Date i.e from Jan 2013 you can claim exp. But you claimed all your exp so got the Denial .

Very sorry to hear about your case , probably others can help or give some more suggestions.

Dragoman


----------



## akiimanu (Feb 26, 2013)

dragoman said:


> Well Mate as I replied on other thread , your case is straightforward.
> 
> ACS as per new rules gave you a Skilled / Deeming Date i.e from Jan 2013 you can claim exp. But you claimed all your exp so got the Denial .
> 
> ...


I did not understand this, I did ACS in old format in which I needed 6 years of experience to get positive RPL and I could claim points for 6 years, and I got positive ACS .I had 6 + years of experience so that experience is not counted at all.
Please help in understanding.


----------



## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

akiimanu said:


> I did not understand this, I did ACS in old format in which I needed 6 years of experience to get positive RPL and I could claim points for 6 years, and I got positive ACS .I had 6 + years of experience so that experience is not counted at all.
> Please help in understanding.


Sorry about the situation, but according to the new rule introduced on April 2013, all the ACS letters (RPL or Not) coming out have this "AFTER ..." caluse mentioned, which basically means you'll only be able to claim work points AFTER the specified date. So, its not yet 5 years after 2012, and therefore CO couldn't allocate 10 points.

Your previous work experiences before 2012 can be used to get positive assesment, but not to claim points in EOI.

I would reccommend you should sincerely communicate with CO as soon as possible saying you were not aware of this rule change as DIAC hasn't officially said anything about it yet, and you unintentionally miscalculated the points and request the CO to refund the visa fee if possible.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

akiimanu said:


> Hi Mates,
> 
> Today I was bombarded by CO's decision of refusal for 189 SC Software Engineer category.
> 
> ...


First of all I am very sorry for your Visa denial.Secondly can you please paste your ACS letter here removing personal details.

Also, as per snippet you pasted above *The following employment after December 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.*

means you can claim points for your experience post Dec 2012 only not prior to that. Since you have claimed all your experience of 7 years , hence denial.

you didnot taken this after clause into account while calculating your points unfortunately  

May be some seniors can give you some advice/suggestions.

Regards,
Karan


----------



## nilsxinli (Jul 17, 2013)

May i know which team does the case officer come from? Brisbane GSM Team x? Adelaide GSM Team x? or some others?
I personally think CO from different region may make different descision especially for such non-public clear DIAC internal rules in ACS result.

furthermore, i really have concern on how CO will deal with old format ACS result, which does not contain "employment after xxxx"


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

nilsxinli said:


> May i know which team does the case officer come from? Brisbane GSM Team x? Adelaide GSM Team x? or some others?
> I personally think CO from different region may make different descision especially for such non-public clear DIAC internal rules in ACS result.
> 
> furthermore, i really have concern on how CO will deal with old format ACS result, which does not contain "employment after xxxx"


From all the cases i saw so far, I can say is it depends on CO only, how satisfied he is with the docs provided. I have seen cases where a guy claimed full experience even with new ACS having after clause and got the grant and some guys getting grant with old format as well. Its entirely on your CO and most importantly your luck


----------



## ccham (Jul 22, 2013)

kmann said:


> From all the cases i saw so far, I can say is it depends on CO only, how satisfied he is with the docs provided. I have seen cases where a guy claimed full experience even with new ACS having after clause and got the grant and some guys getting grant with old format as well. Its entirely on your CO and most importantly your luck


for new ACS formats, It's better go with after clause. 
but for older formats it would not be a problem, and could claim total exp mention on ACS letter. but still CO doesn't satisfy with documents he can refuse visa.
so go with proper documents if you want to claim work exp because final decision unto CO


----------



## akiimanu (Feb 26, 2013)

ccham said:


> for new ACS formats, It's better go with after clause.
> but for older formats it would not be a problem, and could claim total exp mention on ACS letter. but still CO doesn't satisfy with documents he can refuse visa.
> so go with proper documents if you want to claim work exp because final decision unto CO


hey mates 

we have all the documents for 7 years of work experience , will writing to CO about it help in any case. Please suggest.


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

akiimanu said:


> hey mates
> 
> we have all the documents for 7 years of work experience , will writing to CO about it help in any case. Please suggest.


Wat all docs u submitted ??

Did u submit
Payslips
Taxation documents such as form 16 or ITR
Bank statements
Reference letters
Offer letters
Relieving letters


----------



## dragoman (Mar 29, 2013)

As of now you can only apologize & request to the CO . "The only point you can talk about is that when you applied for ACS this rule was not their & I should not be affected by it" . 

Although chances of accepting this by CO is less , as now both ACS & DIAC has updated the rule book & are in Sync . Some people were extremely lucky and some still are but eventually this is the new rule in their book & will be followed .

Best of luck Mate .

Dragoman


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

ccham said:


> for new ACS formats, It's better go with after clause.
> but for older formats it would not be a problem, and could claim total exp mention on ACS letter. but still CO doesn't satisfy with documents he can refuse visa.
> so go with proper documents if you want to claim work exp because final decision unto CO


Yes agree with you, for old ACS we can go ahead and claim all the exp providing all the docs we have to support our claimed points  For new ACS one should only claim points after deemed date.


----------



## srinu_srn (Jun 28, 2013)

kmann said:


> Wat all docs u submitted ??
> 
> Did u submit
> Payslips
> ...


Hi akiimanu
Yes, when you are replying you can also attach all the docs so that he may be accept. Don't worry. May I know your CO team?


----------



## kmann (Mar 13, 2013)

akiimanu said:


> hey mates
> 
> we have all the documents for 7 years of work experience , will writing to CO about it help in any case. Please suggest.


Can we know your CO team ?? from which team you got denial mail ??


----------



## ann.ria.jacob (May 25, 2011)

kmann said:


> From all the cases i saw so far, I can say is it depends on CO only, how satisfied he is with the docs provided. I have seen cases where a guy claimed full experience even with new ACS having after clause and got the grant and some guys getting grant with old format as well. Its entirely on your CO and most importantly your luck


hi kman,

can you please let me know whether the above statement is really true. which may help us to keep a hope. because, i had applied for ACS with 4 years of experience. i got a positive assessment on 2011 (without any clause) later since it got expired after taking IELTS and waiting for my wife's ACS assessment on march 2013 i re-applied on june 2013 . since i know word by word in my earlier letter and wifes positive acs assessment. i was pretty sure i will get it thru and once i received a reply from ACS i immediately submited EOI with 60 points. 

i was unaware of the new clause. which later i noticed after going thru all forums. 

not its too late as i applied for PR paying 6100 AUD. 

according to the clause my met date is nov 2009. 

now i am confused and i am really worried.


----------



## Ching64 (Dec 18, 2013)

akiimanu said:


> Hi Mates,
> 
> Today I was bombarded by CO's decision of refusal for 189 SC Software Engineer category.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I'm sorry to hear about this refusal. 

As painful as it is, considering the possibility of your CO not accepting a request to review, what if we start afresh by:
1. Securing a vendor certificate first, e.g., MCSE,
2. Providing more proof of skilled employment using payslips, tax returns etc. like another poster has suggested and
3. Getting another ACS assessment done. 
4. Attempting IELTS again to secure 8 in each band.

If the above can be done, we have potentially 10 (MCSE) + 5? (experience) + 20 (if you score all 8 in IELTS) = 35 points in our hands. If we still think we are going to lose the 5 points in experience, why don't we do SC 190 instead? Sponsorship gives us the 5 points.

Seniors here can confirm this for us but I think, you might be able to abandon the RPL route altogether as, logically, vendor certification would take care of qualification and this along with better IELTS score would compensate for the lost points. 

I've been researching on this fiercely for the past month or so like a mad scientist as I'm pretty much in the same boat as you - except that I haven't dared to get my ACS assessment done yet; I'm weighing my options still.

Please don't lose hope. Best of luck for whatever you decide to do next. Please keep us posted.

PS: I tried speaking to a so-called consultant. They didn't know what exactly RPL was. So, I'm doing this alone although I don't feel lonely at all since I'm a member of this forum now.

Cheers,
Ching


----------



## magneto (Jul 4, 2013)

Ching64 said:


> Hi, I'm sorry to hear about this refusal. As painful as it is, considering the possibility of your CO not accepting a request to review, what if we start afresh by: 1. Securing a vendor certificate first, e.g., MCSE, 2. Providing more proof of skilled employment using payslips, tax returns etc. like another poster has suggested and 3. Getting another ACS assessment done. 4. Attempting IELTS again to secure 8 in each band. If the above can be done, we have potentially 10 (MCSE) + 5? (experience) + 20 (if you score all 8 in IELTS) = 35 points in our hands. If we still think we are going to lose the 5 points in experience, why don't we do SC 190 instead? Sponsorship gives us the 5 points. Seniors here can confirm this for us but I think, you might be able to abandon the RPL route altogether as, logically, vendor certification would take care of qualification and this along with better IELTS score would compensate for the lost points. I've been researching on this fiercely for the past month or so like a mad scientist as I'm pretty much in the same boat as you - except that I haven't dared to get my ACS assessment done yet; I'm weighing my options still. Please don't lose hope. Best of luck for whatever you decide to do next. Please keep us posted. PS: I tried speaking to a so-called consultant. They didn't know what exactly RPL was. So, I'm doing this alone although I don't feel lonely at all since I'm a member of this forum now. Cheers, Ching



Mate, so sorry to hear... I will be straight forward on this.

You have made the mistake of counting experience which is no longer relevant ( ACS new rule ) thus there is no way you can convince your CO. You could have escaped if he would have noticed it but now nothing can be done.

I am B.Tech in comp science and still I was asked to go for RPL, I had lots of email exchange and phone with my CO but he did not got convinced, even they did not allowed me to withdraw my application ... Finally they accessed me but cut all my exp, I reapplied again and this time got + ve result. So in short my experience is CO are very stubborn..... The best you can do now is the explain that it was mistake from your part and ask to refund the money..

Get 8 in IELTS and reapply.

Life is learning experience; we all make mistakes... Learning from mistakes is important.

Good luck!!

Cheers!


----------



## kartheek333 (May 11, 2014)

Hello, 

Today, I had a shocking surprise on receiving the refusal notification from case officer. The issue is exactly similar to the case below (I.e conflict on experience claimed vs ACS experience)

I would like to get some expert advice on the following items:

1) Although case officer might have reviewed the application thoroughly, Is there any possibility of convincing case officer by providing additional documents? 

2) The visa application fee was $5300. It was for myself and my spouse. What information should i send to case officer to make him believe it was an unintentional mistake to get my money back at least ( If option1 is not a possible one) ?

I would be really glad if someone can pls help with the information that i should share with the case officer in order to convince him with at least one of the options above?

Thanks,
K







magneto said:


> Mate, so sorry to hear... I will be straight forward on this.
> 
> You have made the mistake of counting experience which is no longer relevant ( ACS new rule ) thus there is no way you can convince your CO. You could have escaped if he would have noticed it but now nothing can be done.
> 
> ...


----------



## bond_bhai (Jan 26, 2012)

kartheek333 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Today, I had a shocking surprise on receiving the refusal notification from case officer. The issue is exactly similar to the case below (I.e conflict on experience claimed vs ACS experience)
> 
> ...


1. Unfortunately, the chances of this happening is very minimal. Earlier when ACS introduced this rule, CO used to consider applications like this. But, lately, DIBP is following ACS assessment to the word. So, you can probably call up or email your CO if you can provide additional documents/certificates to prove your employment. 
2. Same here, you can request your CO that the application was submitted incorrectly and by ignorance.lack of awareness. You can ask her if you can get an option to atleast withdraw the app, which in turn means refund of the application fees.

I don't want to say this at this time, but you should have come to this forum earlier. You could have understood this better.


----------



## kartheek333 (May 11, 2014)

Dear Bhai, First of all thank you for your swift response.

You are correct. I should have noticed, but i didn't.

In regards to the email communication to case officer, is there any format that you or the forum has to initiate the discussion and look for an option to convince?

If not, at least any format to convince on withdrawing the application. I am sorry , i am completely shocked with the response and i'm not able to take a firm decision on my approach to overcome this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. K


----------



## prseeker (Sep 11, 2013)

kartheek333 said:


> Dear Bhai, First of all thank you for your swift response.
> 
> You are correct. I should have noticed, but i didn't.
> 
> ...


Kartheek , forget the damn format and ontact CO ASAP . In any case there is no format . Just be polite and honest and try to explain the situation .

Rest assured they won't be entertaining your visa application , you should try to get a refund atleast a partial one .. Though chances are slim .

Also I will suggest you to open a seprate thread for better visibility .

All the best . I feel for your loss . Keep us posted 

Regards 
PD


----------



## ckalyanii (Jul 29, 2014)

magneto said:


> Mate, so sorry to hear... I will be straight forward on this.
> 
> You have made the mistake of counting experience which is no longer relevant ( ACS new rule ) thus there is no way you can convince your CO. You could have escaped if he would have noticed it but now nothing can be done.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I have been asked to do the RPL by my CO during ACS assessment. I am not sure what to be done as I think with RPL they will deduct my years of experience. And with that the total points will be definitely less than 60 (considering IELTS point 7). What is the best approach in this case? Is it possible for me to cancel the ACS and ask for refund (partial) may be? I can do an ACS assessment later via some migration agent. Please help


----------



## shankaraus (Nov 16, 2014)

Hi,

I have a similar situation due to the same AFTER clause in the ACS score, my visa got rejected. I had paid close to 6200 dollars, and got points totalling only 55 points, instead of 60.

Is there a chance to apply for a refund and will I get or I have to forget about refund.

Appreciate your quick response.

Regards,

Shankar


----------



## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

shankaraus said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a similar situation due to the same AFTER clause in the ACS score, my visa got rejected. I had paid close to 6200 dollars, and got points totalling only 55 points, instead of 60.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately there is no refund whatsoever mate. You overclaimed points , you can only claim work points for the period after the *skilled date* mentioned by ACS.


----------



## shankaraus (Nov 16, 2014)

Hi, 

Thanks for your genuine response. I was still thinking if I can apply for refund and they will reimburse. 

This is on behalf of people like me who had similar experience:

1. Can the Aus govt. introduce a law where 10 to 20% of fine is imposed and the remaining amount automatically reimbursed.

2. Can the Aus govt. in their Immi account site, have a link which provides information's on these common cases where a pitfall can be avoided and make the link a mandatory before paying the visa charge amount.

3. It is a common sense, that coming from a developing nation, it takes nearly 2 years to save this 6200$ amount (In my case). Hence its a lot of pain, can lead to heart attacks also, for weaker persons. Like industrial health hazards, guess a view has to be taken to ensure partial amount is at least reimbursed. 

4. Since my eligibility is in doubt, why did the govt take fee for my wife and daughter, that itself comes half of the amount paid. My wife and daughter who are dependents, it does not sound logical to take the amount as fees, as there was no need to look at their applications, as I got rejected in first place. 

Appreciate if people can voice this to the Government of Australia.


----------



## blak3 (Dec 31, 2012)

shankaraus said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your genuine response. I was still thinking if I can apply for refund and they will reimburse.
> 
> ...


Sadly it was an expensive mistake on your side. all the best with your future applications. i read the letter and understood right away only the experience after ''date xxx'' will be counted.
And i doubt the govt would listen. it is a lucrative business, hardly any chance of the fees going down, and with more people trying to get into Australia everyday, they wont let go these easy $$. At the same time, rules are rules.


----------



## Rahul77 (Oct 4, 2015)

magneto said:


> Mate, so sorry to hear... I will be straight forward on this.
> 
> You have made the mistake of counting experience which is no longer relevant ( ACS new rule ) thus there is no way you can convince your CO. You could have escaped if he would have noticed it but now nothing can be done.
> 
> ...



CO asking for RPL ?. This is something strange for me. So is there a possibility that acs may assess you on general skills assessment but CO can ask to go for RPL.


----------



## singha88 (Jul 24, 2018)

HI 

Is there anyone who has come across this situation and got their visa approved ?

I have a mechanical Engineering degree with 6 years of IT experience. I followed RPL route. ACS deducted 5 years of my work experience which leaves me with 65 points.

Having said that - since state VIC counts Work EXP from CV. we went ahead and updated 10 points for work exp too which gave us 189 -75 points and 190 at 80 points.

No we received an invite on 189. so not sure if i should accept the invite and go ahead lodging the application and leave it to CO's discretion.


so i want to know if there is anyone who came across similar situation and got the visa approved at CO's discretion.


Thanks


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

singha88 said:


> HI
> 
> Is there anyone who has come across this situation and got their visa approved ?
> 
> ...


VIC / states and territories in general may consider work experience along with other factors when determining whether to nominate someone and give them their +5 points.

However, when it comes to skilled employment points, the awarding of those points are the sole discretion of DHA - although they do generally follow the advice of the assessing authority - which in your case has not given you 10 points worth of skilled employment points to claim. 

I would change the 190 EOI and see if VIC are still willing to nominate you despite the change in skilled employment points claimed, if yes, then just follow through.

For the 189 EOI I would not lodge an application based on a EOI that does not meet DHA's guidelines - imho it is likely to be refused. 

Have you got 20 points for English? You can make up the 10 points there if you haven't yet.


----------



## singha88 (Jul 24, 2018)

Thanks for your prompt response !! Yes i already have 20 points in English !! What are the chances for getting invite on 190 with 75 points ! Any idea of time frame ?


----------



## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

singha88 said:


> Thanks for your prompt response !! Yes i already have 20 points in English !! What are the chances for getting invite on 190 with 75 points ! Any idea of time frame ?


Not too sure there - for VIC you can try this thread:
https://www.expatforum.com/expats/a...-visa-aspirants-2017-2018-migration-year.html

For NSW:
https://www.expatforum.com/expats/a...e-sponsorship-invitation-1st-july-2018-a.html


----------

