# Clarification on Foreign Tourists getting Spearfishing Licence



## turunc2006

canoeman said:


> Foreign visitors need someone with a Multibanco card, use Passport number as ID, carry passport when fishing, or they have to visit a local Florestral Office for Licence.
> 
> p.s. NO night fishing allowed in Portugal and max of 2 rods per person & and DON'T fish without a Licence, heavy fines and confiscation of equipment


Hi everyone. I'm new to the site. Though not an expat, I'm a UK national who intends to visit the Lagos/Praia del Luz area next summer (2013) and will be wanting to get a spearfishing licence for the duration of my 2-week holiday.

Being experienced at trying to clarify this sort of process on the web before going on hols to places like Greece, Turkey, Lanzarote etc, the cyperspace is always full of conflicting info and I'm afraid for Portugal seems no exception.

As stated in the quote at the very top of my thread (which I found in a similar thread, but the system wouldn't let me reply to it as as I haven't done enough posting yet) I seem to be being told that I can LEGALLY get such a licence via a Multibanco cashpoint. 

May I ask the following questions :-

a) Is it actually true that a UK visiting tourist (with no Portuguese residency etc) can legally get a licence using the Multibanco route?

b) the quote above suggests that I would need to take someone who has a Multibanco card in order to pay for the licence at the cashpoint. Is this still true or do these Multibanco machines actually accept foreign credit/debit cards now in 2012 and so I could pay using my UK-account-based debit card?

c) Another thread has suggested that foreign visitors have to actually buy a 'Special Licence' ('Licenca Especial)? Is this actually true and if so, are they obtainable at the Multibanco or if false, can I just follow the same screens as a local Portuguese would do and state my passport ID instead of a resident ID? or do I have to definitely go to the local MADRP office in Portimao for this 'special licence'?

d) How much would a 2-week spearfishing licence cost me for the local region in 2012?

Cheers. Any advice backed up with official confirmation or real-life examples would be greatly appreciated.


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## canoeman

a/b) Yes but a UK card can only be used for cash withdrawals you need someone with a Portuguese card *providing you have a Portuguese Tax Number* you can only buy National, or regional licences from ATM, any other licence must be purchased at Camara or from NFA or AFN MARB? offices, as far as I know medical and insurance not a requirement in Portugal, 

c) Foreigners only need a Special licence if there reguired for certain waters, species etc.

d) This link is ATM instructions for Licence http://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&rct=j...//www.fccpviseu.pt/Documentos/Licenca_Pesca.d 
Photo 6 select Pesca Submarina > select area > time period > then same as above for ID and payment 

I believe current cost is €10pm 

The official site for the Azores and believe restrictions etc same for mainland RIAC - Licença de Pesca Lúdica states a Licence *is required* cost €10pm or €5 pday with these rules

Spearfishing
One. The total number of specimens of species of fish and octopus capture by each practitioner is limited to 10 per day. 
2. The total number of copies of the capture crustaceans per practitioner is limited to two per day. 
3. The catching of: Mero (grouper from Brazil)
4th. Catch underwater fun of limpets and barnacles can be made of apnea since licensed for hunting-submarine
• The quantities allowed in the recreational catch are:
- Lapas: 1.5 kg (only on Saturdays, Sundays and holidays)
- Barnacles: 2.0kg 
5. Can only be exercised by practicing snorkel.


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## turunc2006

canoeman said:


> a/b) Yes but a UK card can only be used for cash withdrawals you need someone with a Portuguese card *providing you have a Portuguese Tax Number* you can only buy National, or regional licences from ATM, any other licence must be purchased at Camara or from NFA or AFN MARB? offices, as far as I know medical and insurance not a requirement in Portugal,
> 
> c) Foreigners only need a Special licence if there reguired for certain waters, species etc.
> 
> d) This link is ATM instructions for Licence <removed to allow my reply through> Photo 6 select Pesca Submarina > select area > time period > then same as above for ID and payment
> 
> I believe current cost is €10pm
> 
> The official site for the Azores and believe restrictions etc same for mainland <removed to allow my reply through> states a Licence *is required* cost €10pm or €5 pday with these rules
> 
> Spearfishing
> One. The total number of specimens of species of fish and octopus capture by each practitioner is limited to 10 per day.
> 2. The total number of copies of the capture crustaceans per practitioner is limited to two per day.
> 3. The catching of: Mero (grouper from Brazil)
> 4th. Catch underwater fun of limpets and barnacles can be made of apnea since licensed for hunting-submarine
> • The quantities allowed in the recreational catch are:
> - Lapas: 1.5 kg (only on Saturdays, Sundays and holidays)
> - Barnacles: 2.0kg
> 5. Can only be exercised by practicing snorkel.


Many thanks canoeman for your very quick reply.

May I just comment on your responses.

in a) Sorry what exactly is the Portuguese Tax ID requirement for. It's not clear in your reply (mainly due to the lack of fullstops and capitals in your text). Are you saying I can only use someone else's Multibanco card as long as I HAVE a Portuguese Tax Number (which of course I don't/won't ever have as a holiday visitor)? Or that I need a Portuguese Tax Number for the licence I get via a Multibanco ATM to be legal. 

So if I don't have a Portuguese Tax Number, my options for getting a regional sea-shore spearfishing licence are ____________________ Please supply.

c) What you say is what I suspected to be the case. So just for seashore spearfishing I wouldn't need a 'Licenca Especial' then.

d) The link you kindly provide doesn't seem to work, it comes back saying the link is broken.

As I said before, cyperspace is full of contradictory info regarding this area. I've previously found a very full and convincing expat website that says :- 

*Foreign tourists MUST ONLY go to an ATM to get a licence and that the licence process WILL accept UK cards for the payment.*

So on this basis, may I kindly and genuinely just ask where you get your info from for this area. Do you have contact with the authorities or? As I say, I've been through all this in Greece, Turkey etc and it's very frustrating for this law-abiding citizen who simply wants to know what the law actually is.

Cheers for now.
turunc.


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## canoeman

A) ID is a Portuguese ID card for Nationals. Tax Number called NIF or Numero Contributant is your personal Tax number in Portugal, yes you can have one as a non Resident but not really worthwhile if your just a casual visitor. You can use a Multibanco without one, but if you require a Fishing/spearfish licence bought from a Multibanco then the NIF number is required, as a further form of ID but also as a Tax Receipt for certain circumstances. 
You can use your Passport number instead of ID number, you cannot use someone else's NIF number.

You will need to visit the office for the area your visiting Locais de venda de Licenças de pesca desportiva — ICNF

C) Special Yes as in Pesca Submarina
D) Licenças de pesca desportiva — ICNF

*Foreign tourists MUST ONLY go to an ATM to get a licence and that the licence process WILL accept UK cards for the payment.*

Well if they can get a UK Card to do anything but withdraw money good luck! but a load of rubbish, multibanco sequence won't complete without NIF number, and ICNF site specifically says a foreigner must go to an office. Licences here are cheap compared to elsewhere but fines aren't and each Licence is tied to one person i.e ID

I fish, extensive bookmarks, probably more familiar with digging information out of Portuguese sites, the Pesca Submarina is just another page on the multibanco purchase options, although the site doesn't have any info as I believe it actually comes under a different Ministry MADRP Secretaria Geral do MADRP which also has zero information

It is helpful to search in Portuguese for certain things so for spearfishing Pesca Submarina will bring up more information than spearfishing, with Google translate to translate your question into any language and Google translate page/site option on Google Chrome to translate sites it's not too difficult.

Let us know how you get on I'm sure Moderator will add to a sticky so it's there for everyone


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## turunc2006

canoeman said:


> A) ID is a Portuguese ID card for Nationals. Tax Number called NIF or Numero Contributant is your personal Tax number in Portugal, yes you can have one as a non Resident but not really worthwhile if your just a casual visitor. You can use a Multibanco without one, but if you require a Fishing/spearfish licence bought from a Multibanco then the NIF number is required, as a further form of ID but also as a Tax Receipt for certain circumstances.
> You can use your Passport number instead of ID number, you cannot use someone else's NIF number.
> 
> You will need to visit the office for the area your visiting <removed to allow reply>
> 
> C) Special Yes as in Pesca Submarina
> D) <removed to allow reply>
> *Foreign tourists MUST ONLY go to an ATM to get a licence and that the licence process WILL accept UK cards for the payment.*
> 
> Well if they can get a UK Card to do anything but withdraw money good luck! but a load of rubbish, multibanco sequence won't complete without NIF number, and ICNF site specifically says a foreigner must go to an office. Licences here are cheap compared to elsewhere but fines aren't and each Licence is tied to one person i.e ID
> 
> I fish, extensive bookmarks, probably more familiar with digging information out of Portuguese sites, the Pesca Submarina is just another page on the multibanco purchase options, although the site doesn't have any info as I believe it actually comes under a different Ministry MADRP <removed to allow reply> which also has zero information
> 
> It is helpful to search in Portuguese for certain things so for spearfishing Pesca Submarina will bring up more information than spearfishing, with Google translate to translate your question into any language and Google translate page/site option on Google Chrome to translate sites it's not too difficult.
> 
> Let us know how you get on I'm sure Moderator will add to a sticky so it's there for everyone


Cheers Canoeman for the comprehensive reply. You're a star. 

I did get myself a Greek tax number as this was compulsory when I bought a spearo licence over in Zakynthos two years ago. They had no monthly licences so I had to buy a 3-yearly one for about 30 euros. I had to go to the local tax office to get myself a tax number and then to the local Port Authority for the licence. The idea behind it in theory was that they would be able to contact me thorugh the tax number in case I'd contravene some rule in the future.

I have in the last few weeks been having fun doing the sort of searching you suggest and will continue this. The ICNF site looks like it will prove very useful, especially if it's saying foreigners have no choice but to go to an office which is the sort of definitive statement I want to be seeing as at least I know where I stand. As you can detect, I always play by the book when it comes to regs. The fact that the Portuguese authorities seem to be very strict on checking fishermen for licences makes no difference to me. I always just want to get a legal licence and enjoy my sport with peace of mind.

Another expat website has previously said that if I doubt whether the Multibanco route is applicable to me (and you've now convinced me that it isn't - on two counts.), then I can get my licence in person from the local MADRP office in Portimao or is this another red herring? Any comments? Are the MADRP office staff likely to speak good/any English in your experience? I can converse in several languages such as French, German, a little Spanish and Turkish but I've never studied Portuguese until using Google Translate last night. 

Cheers.
Turunc.


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## canoeman

You might English is the most unusaul places, they might or might not, French possibly, but as a back up, just print a note in English and Portuguese along the lines 

Where can I get a Licence for spearfishing from?
are there any Regulations I should be aware off?

Onde posso obter uma licença para caça submarina de?
Existem regulamentos de que eu deveria estar ciente de fora?

The other link I posted should give you the addresses for a Fishing Licence but not sure if they issue the Spearfishing Licence, but I would think that MADRP Portimao is the place you want,


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## turunc2006

canoeman said:


> You might English is the most unusaul places, they might or might not, French possibly, but as a back up, just print a note in English and Portuguese along the lines
> 
> Where can I get a Licence for spearfishing from?
> are there any Regulations I should be aware off?
> 
> Onde posso obter uma licença para caça submarina de?
> Existem regulamentos de que eu deveria estar ciente de fora?
> 
> The other link I posted should give you the addresses for a Fishing Licence but not sure if they issue the Spearfishing Licence, but I would think that MADRP Portimao is the place you want,


Cheers. Yep your link gave me the phone number for the AFN office in Portimao so will try both. Might even ring them both up (before jetting over) and see what they say. 

And as you rightfully said the ICNF site says (after a bit of Google Translate turning foreigners into aliens)


> Nota: os cidadãos estrangeiros, uma vez que não possuem Bilhete de Identidade (BI) e/ou Número de Contribuinte (NIF), apenas podem adquirir Licença junto da AFN.


 i.e Note: aliens, since they do not have Identity Card (BI) and / or Tax File Number (TIN), can only acquire license from the AFN.


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## turunc2006

> The other link I posted should give you the addresses for a Fishing Licence but not sure if they issue the Spearfishing Licence, but I would think that MADRP Portimao is the place you want,


The more I look at it I think this ICNF site se merely concerned with inland water and river fishing so the MADRP option does look the most likely for my spearfishing licence. (The ICNF site merely talks about freshwater fish and on its demo of using a 'Multibanco' to buy a licence, it tells you to select the 'Pesca Agua Doces' option which I believe is freshwater fishing.)


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## canoeman

Yes, that's my feeling, it's using Multibanco to buy Licence where the Ministries overlap, but I can't see any info on the MADRP site about spearfishing and a search on site comes up zero.

I really don't think phoning or e-mailing would get you anywhere, but you could try the Tourist Information in Portimao
Câmara Municipal de Portimão


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## turunc2006

canoeman said:


> Yes, that's my feeling, it's using Multibanco to buy Licence where the Ministries overlap, but I can't see any info on the MADRP site about spearfishing and a search on site comes up zero.
> 
> I really don't think phoning or e-mailing would get you anywhere, but you could try the Tourist Information in Portimao
> Câmara Municipal de Portimão


Yes the MADRP website seems to be one of those oh-so-depressingly-similar high-level sites that looks as though it's trying to display information to satify EU high-level directives rather than serve the common man and is devoid of the sort of practical info that people really want. In that sense the ICNF site was refreshingly different. 

I've tried ringing these sort of office places before going on holiday in the past c.f. Zakynthos Port Authority and I was given all sorts of garbage - mind you some of it was right (but not much) but the essential thing about me needing a Greek tax number was denied by them on the phone. When I finally went of course to these same people, it was a different story and I had to get my hotel manager to give me a reference before they agreed to give me a tax number. Until I got the tax number, the Port Authority would NOT issue me my spearo licence.

So I suppose it makes sense that the Multibanco asks for a tax number in a similar way (even though it was the ICNF website that showed a demo of the screens i.e. for its Freshwater users, I'm sure needing a tax number via the ATM is true for all types of licence as it's expecting the ATM user to be a Portuguese national or resident like yourself, and is consistent with needing the sort of payment card that only a Portuguese national or resident would have). But as for me going to the MADRP office in person without such a tax no, hopefully all my passport info, name and UK contact details will suffice. In that sense it would be different from Greece.

The general agreement in cyberspace does seem to be that no medical certificate or proof of insurance is required for anyone (besides this would rule out the ATM process). However I do try and get travel insurance with third-party Personal Liability in case someone else is accidentally injured. This is the conformist within me speaking. Better to be safe than sorry!

Some other expat sites have been useful. These sorts of prices for the licence were quoted for 2007 that gives me an idea of what to expect to pay - as you say totally reasonable prices.

- Snorkel/Diving fishing (i.e. spearfishing)
local, 1 month - 10€ 
local, 1 year - 40€ 
local, 3 years - 100€ 

national, 1 month - 15€ 
national, 1 year - 80€ 
national, 3 years - 200€

When I go to the MADRP office in Portimao, I shall go armed with my original passport, a photocopy of it, 2 passport photos, money and by that time I shall have learned the appropriate Portuguese phrases (including yours).

Obrigado!


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## canoeman

You won't need Passport photos but photocopy possibly, if you want to splash out another €7 that's the cost of a NIF number, you reguire a UK address, passport nothing from Portugal but Portimao Financas don't have a particularly good reputation of helpfulness and the last I heard where still not following changes in Portugauese Tax Law.

I do have a Word document for Multibanco for Pesca Submarina but the only difference to posted instructions are as I said from photo six where you opt for a different screen


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## turunc2006

canoeman said:


> You won't need Passport photos but photocopy possibly, if you want to splash out another €7 that's the cost of a NIF number, you reguire a UK address, passport nothing from Portugal but Portimao Financas don't have a particularly good reputation of helpfulness and the last I heard where still not following changes in Portugauese Tax Law.
> 
> I do have a Word document for Multibanco for Pesca Submarina but the only difference to posted instructions are as I said from photo six where you opt for a different screen


Cheers for all that - most useful.

Yes ringing the Portimao Tourist Office is an option and at least they'll speak English. I'm still intrigued though to see what reaction I get by phoning the MADRP office in Portimao. 

Just been looking at the bus service from Lagos to Portimao on the web and it's OK so when I finally come over will make a day of it. And the service from Lagos to Sagres looks good too. 

And of course will have to give the Multibanco ATM just a play - even though I know it won't work (and especially as I've just found yet another expat site that claimed (but it was 2007) that filling in the tax number field was optional, but I agree with you, I don't think that will be the case).

I will of course debrief your good self as to what happens!

Thanks again for your excellent assistance.


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