# Italy, France of Portugal??



## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi,

New to the forum.....it looks really well run and informative so hopefully will help us.

Myself and my Wife are middle aged professionals, I am in Purchasing/Quality Assurance and my Wife is an HR Manager. We lead very stressfully lives, spend over 4 hours a day in traffic and really want a life change so have decided to re-locate abroad.

We have put together a Journal/action list.....first question for us is what country, we both love Italy with a passion but have read some very negative comments on this forum, we would also consider the South of France or Portugal.

I guess what we are looking for from this forum is feedback to how we kick things off and any negatives/positives on the 3 countries listed above.

Ideally....a house min 2 bed, in the country but not to far from a large town/city, we have 3 dogs so need a wee bit of land as well.

Over to you guys


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Are you still working? Start with that one.


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

NickZ said:


> Are you still working? Start with that one.


Yes, we are both still working


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

All three countries have fairly high levels of unemployment.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

numphboy said:


> Hi,
> 
> New to the forum.....it looks really well run and informative so hopefully will help us.
> 
> ...


In addition to the high unemployment levels, I don't think you would get very far with these professional level jobs in any of the three countries unless you can speak and read the native language with near-perfect fluency.

So, what are your language skills?


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

accbgb said:


> In addition to the high unemployment levels, I don't think you would get very far with these professional level jobs in any of the three countries unless you can speak and read the native language with near-perfect fluency.
> 
> So, what are your language skills?


We would would be planning on re-locating in a years time. We want to fully research every aspect of it. This includes after deciding on the location, fully learning the language. My wife has a lot of contacts in the Oil & Gas industry with some of the companies she has dealt with being based in France and Italy. 

I do appreciate that the taxes are high, the unemployment if high and its really tough to pull off a move if you want to carry on working but there must be some positives surly? 

If its really not an option then we will have to re-think, but we are not going to be put off by some big challenges.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

If you can learn enough Italian in one year to be able to get and hold a purchasing or HR job, then you are a better man (and woman!) than I.


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

accbgb said:


> If you can learn enough Italian in one year to be able to get and hold a purchasing or HR job, then you are a better man (and woman!) than I.


You said it!!


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## Mozella (Nov 30, 2013)

numphboy said:


> ......... snip ........
> If its really not an option then we will have to re-think, but we are not going to be put off by some big challenges.


.

I can't speak for France or Portugal, but, at the risk of being a wet blanket, I can give you some hints about Italy.

Nothing is impossible, but some things might as well be. One might think, especially if they're American (like me), that if you're a hard working, honest, law abiding, married couple with some accumulated assets that it shouldn't be too hard to pick up your life in America and plop it down in someplace nice, like Italy. 

Of course, one would expect certain expenses and challenges, but surely a nice pair of Americans shouldn't be discouraged by the Italian government, and one might argue that Italy should actually be glad to have nice people like you. You would expect to be welcomed at least as warmly as the aliens sneaking their way into or forcing their way into Italy from Africa and other countries, wouldn't you?

Well, sad to say, you would be wrong. 

Getting a visa which would allow you to find independent work is very difficult. Plus, finding work in your fields, especially if you don't speak Italian nearly perfectly, is also very difficult. Couple that with the fact that finding work of any kind in Italy is very difficult, especially without family connections, and you have a job situation that might as well be impossible. I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine your plan A working.

As others have pointed out, if you (both of you actually) are essentially quite well off with a significant passive income then you might qualify for an Elective Residence Visa. But you won't be able to work. Even if you qualify for the ER visa, you will have to "make it happen" so to speak. In other words, the Italian government might allow you to move here, as it did for my wife and I; however, they certainly didn't go out of their way to encourage us or make things easy for us. 

Italy is a nice place to live. We enjoy it here very much and we're glad that we abandoned America to live out our lives here in Italy. But unless you're ready to retire and have your ducks in a row, you face a challenge which is WAY more difficult to meet than worrying about where to find a cozy house.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

The original poster has a U.K. flag in his profile. I assume he's a citizen of the U.K. (or at least has EU/EEA status), thus he (and his wife) have a treaty right to live and work in any of those three countries.

That aside, it is indeed currently very difficult to find employment in France, Italy, and Portugal even if you're highly skilled and have been speaking/reading/writing Italian, French, and/or Portuguese since childhood. Either income from work or passive income is required to remain in any of those countries -- that's the extent of one's treaty right, absent citizenship. I agree with the central point Mozella made. If you've got the income part figured out (with a firm job offer), great.


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi.....some good feedback and yes, we are both British citizens


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

Thank you for that feedback folks...so for me it all seems to be about employment? If either myself or my wife can find a good position then we are a 1/4 of the way there.

Employment would pretty much be the deciding factor on location. I guess the problem is....if one of us find employment then the ball is rolling pretty quickly although we both have to give 3 months notice (negotiable) and everything that we planned a year to research would then have to happen extremely quickly. We have a new large touring caravan so if push come to shove we would have to do some sort of a deal with the nearest camping/caravan site for a block booking and treat that as the base. We would be taking that over in any situation although don't relish the drive. 

It may be that one of us stays behind for a month or 2 to tie up all the frayed ends, but what ever we have to do we will. 

If we put the employment issues aside and assume that we have secured employment or were retiring, what I was really looking for from this post was advice on areas to avoid, to consider, to cover....etc, etc.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

What do you like?

Sea? Or mountain?

City or rural?

What else do you need?

If you're retiring you'll need to consider health care issues. I don't think you're old enough to be considered pensioners.


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

NickZ said:


> What do you like?
> 
> Sea? Or mountain?
> 
> ...


Hi Nick,

Rural is our preference, sea or mountain, we are not expecting or looking for the current life style we lead, we want a more basic life without all of the materialist trappings.

We have both lead very stressful lives re work and now want to slow down and enjoy life a bit more. If we don't then one of us or both will end up going over the edge!


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Unfortunately rural settings seriously cut down on employment prospects, other things being equal. Zero income can be stressful, too.


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## numphboy (Jun 30, 2014)

when i say rural.....about 30 to 45 mins drive is ok


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## yosheryosh (Mar 4, 2013)

not to go against the grain here, but every time a question like this is asked... it's always replied with answers about the economy...

i'm pretty interested in hearing the WHERE part of his question probably just as much as he is.


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## Mozella (Nov 30, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> The original poster has a U.K. flag in his profile..............


Oops............ once again BBCWatcher proves he can read better than most of us; better than I anyway. 

Being a UK citizen gives one advantages an non EU citizen wouldn't have. However, the picture still isn't very rosy. Sorry if I muddied the waters by assuming the OP was a non EU citizen.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

yosheryosh said:


> i'm pretty interested in hearing the WHERE part of his question probably just as much as he is.


The problem is it's like asking which girl do you like. 

We can tell you what we like but nobody can really tell you what you'll like.

You need to figure out what you need. What you want. What you can live without.


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