# Exploring Coimbra this week



## Dubuqueguy (Jan 17, 2018)

Hello Coimbra Expats,
My wife & I love on the Mississippi River in Iowa, USA. We are now here in Coimbra and would like to visit with a realtor (rental, not purchase) to font-size our expectations in this are for a 3-bedroom apartment. Does anyone have a suggestion? We staying in an airbnb downtown.


----------



## Dubuqueguy (Jan 17, 2018)

Sorry for bad proofing! We "live" in Iowa, and want to "right-size" expectations. Embarrassing way to join the group.


----------



## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

Dubuqueguy said:


> Sorry for bad proofing! We "live" in Iowa, and want to "right-size" expectations. Embarrassing way to join the group.


Welcome, but Darn It. When I read 'love on the Mississippi river' I started humming Proud Mary - "Rollin', rollin', rollin' on the river..."


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Dubuqueguy said:


> Hello Coimbra Expats,
> My wife & I love on the Mississippi River in Iowa, USA. We are now here in Coimbra and would like to visit with a realtor (rental, not purchase) to font-size our expectations in this are for a 3-bedroom apartment. Does anyone have a suggestion? We staying in an airbnb downtown.


Welcome to Coimbra and to the forum. 

Sorry but you have caught me on a very bad day as far as this topic is concerned, so please, forgive my little rant.

I do not want to put a downer on your trip but I do hope that your expectations are not too high as your quest will be very frustrating. For the past few weeks I have phoned, emailed, joined web lists and personally visited a number of estate agents in Coimbra and would not recommend any of them. They lack any drive or enthusiasm to actually get off their backsides even to answer a phone, let alone meet and heaven forbid, make a deal.

We are not allowed to mention problem companies by name on here, so let me just say this. Definitely do not use the company that operates out of the first floor of the building opposite the main post office on Avenue Fernão Magalhães and next door to the dentist known as OralMed.

I have been waiting two weeks for a contract for a property on which they insisted on being paid a substantial sum of money in cash. I wonder if Finanças are aware of that! Without the contract, the lad I am trying to help cannot get a NIF and without a NIF he cannot get a bank account, gas, water or electricity. But hey! It only gets down to 4 degrees at night when I'm sure the agent is tucked up snug and warm in his bed. We are now on our third promise of a contract to sign this afternoon but I am more likely to win the lottery this week.

To sum up, there are plenty of agents around town but all are as bad as one another. There are two websites that you might like to keep an eye on:

www.imovirtual.pt and www.casasapot.pt

They carry adverts for properties placed both by agents and owners. If you are searching for a property in the city of Coimbra as opposed to the region, you will need to act quickly as 3 beds do not hang around for long.

Good luck!


----------



## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

JohnBoy said:


> Sounds dreadful. I'd hate to be going through that.
> 
> For the past few weeks I have phoned, emailed, joined web lists and personally visited a number of estate agents in Coimbra and would not recommend any of them. They lack any drive or enthusiasm to actually get off their backsides even to answer a phone, let alone meet and heaven forbid, make a deal.


I'm curious if their disinterest could be, in part, from you being a representative, not the person who will be leasing. Or if your ability with Portuguese and/or their abilities in English was a factor.


----------



## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

JohnBoy said:


> Without the contract, the lad I am trying to help cannot get a NIF and without a NIF he cannot get a bank account, gas, water or electricity. But hey!


I don't know about the difference between what the law says and how it's implemented. That said, a Portuguese firm specializing in tax and business advice says non-EU residents who are not Portuguese residents can get a NIF. On a tourist visa. BTW, Article 10 of Finance Ministry Decree-Law No. 14/2013 of January 28 says the same thing. All you need is Passport, proof of home address, and a Tax Representative. First 2 are easy. 

INTAX: Tax Id Number in Portugal or NIF for foreign citizens

One detailed description of the steps to a residence visa (on a competing site so I won't link). The author contradicts herself about how to get a Tax Representative, saying both it's difficult and easy.

_A financial guarantor can be your lawyer, a person with power of attorney, landlord, Dean of Admissions etc. who is a national of the European Union or holds permanent residence in Portugal. This person needs to provide a letter or email stating that he/she will guarantee your accommodations and financial support for a year as well as your return transit to the US. The guarantor's name, financial number and address are required on the letter or email. This imposes a legal risk on the guarantor so it can be difficult to obtain.
...
Many of us who've preceded you to Portugal can recommend attorneys who would charge $40 per guarantor letter or you can ask your initial landlord or realtor, who often is willing to help. 
_


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

dancebert said:


> I'm curious if their disinterest could be, in part, from you being a representative, not the person who will be leasing. Or if your ability with Portuguese and/or their abilities in English was a factor.



The current agent was quite happy for me to act as representative and even sign the reservation of the apartment. Once he had the rental deposit he lost interest. At all times I was accompanied by a Portuguese friend so there were no language issues. 

Regarding your second post and the topic of visas, this does not apply in this case as the renter is a UK citizen. 

Yesterday the agent was told that he had until close of play today to come up with a contract or we would be asking for the Complaints Book. That worked, but the contract will not be available until 5pm so too late to visit Finanças. It's a start.


----------



## smudges (May 2, 2013)

Fingers crossed, JB....it must be so incredibly frustrating and infuriating.


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

smudges said:


> Fingers crossed, JB....it must be so incredibly frustrating and infuriating.


Thanks Smudges. There are times when I wonder how some of these people make a living. I hope Dubuqueguy has better luck than I have.


----------



## smudges (May 2, 2013)

It does seem rather odd that they seem to actively *not* want to do business. Then this insistence on cash sounds rather suspicious....mind you, when I was in Spain I always paid rent in cash. It was just easier. Do let us know how you get on.


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

smudges said:


> It does seem rather odd that they seem to actively *not* want to do business. Then this insistence on cash sounds rather suspicious....mind you, when I was in Spain I always paid rent in cash. It was just easier. Do let us know how you get on.


Will do.


----------



## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

JohnBoy said:


> The current agent was quite happy for me to act as representative and even sign the reservation of the apartment. Once he had the rental deposit he lost interest. At all times I was accompanied by a Portuguese friend so there were no language issues.


So, the other agents didn't want to deal with you as a representative? What about language issues using the phone or emails? 



JohnBoy said:


> Regarding your second post and the topic of visas, this does not apply in this case as the renter is a UK citizen.


My second post was about a NIF, not about visas. You said he couldn't get a NIF without a contract. Therefore, I assumed he was a Third Country citizen because EU citizens get a NIF by showing a National ID card. Something's odd here. Does the bureaucracy not implement the law as written?


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

smudges said:


> It does seem rather odd that they seem to actively *not* want to do business. Then this insistence on cash sounds rather suspicious....mind you, when I was in Spain I always paid rent in cash. It was just easier. Do let us know how you get on.


At least we have the contract now but are still waiting for a set of keys that the owner has. Not wishing to hijack this thread any further, I'll email you.


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

dancebert said:


> So, the other agents didn't want to deal with you as a representative? What about language issues using the phone or emails?
> 
> 
> My second post was about a NIF, not about visas. You said he couldn't get a NIF without a contract. Therefore, I assumed he was a Third Country citizen because EU citizens get a NIF by showing a National ID card. Something's odd here. Does the bureaucracy not implement the law as written?


I did not have any problem getting the agencies to talk to me. The problem is in the way that the agencies operate here. It seems that each member of staff is responsible for certain properties and you can only deal with them for a specific property. If they are not in the office when you happen to call, you will be promised a call back that never materialises.

To clarify the NIF situation, it is not that simple even for an EU citizen. You have to show proof of address and a form of national ID. The address can be in Portugal or any foreign country. In this case it will require his rental contract and passport.

You will find that bureaucrats here implement the law as they understand it. Different branch offices will have different interpretations. Sometimes different people in the same office will not agree. Any dealings with the authorities here will usually be an uphill battle.


----------



## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

JohnBoy said:


> To clarify the NIF situation, it is not that simple even for an EU citizen. You have to show proof of address and a form of national ID. The address can be in Portugal or any foreign country. In this case it will require his rental contract and passport.


I've done more NIF research for non-EU citizens. It's usually embedded in advice for EU citizens. Consensus is if an EU citizen registers as a non resident, it doesn't require proof of an address in Portugal, only of your home country address. Your friend could have gotten a NIF on day 1, then later changed his status. He wouldn't have had to wait to open a bank account. You're welcome.


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

dancebert said:


> I've done more NIF research for non-EU citizens. It's usually embedded in advice for EU citizens. Consensus is if an EU citizen registers as a non resident, it doesn't require proof of an address in Portugal, only of your home country address. Your friend could have gotten a NIF on day 1, then later changed his status. He wouldn't have had to wait to open a bank account. You're welcome.


Thanks. Coincidentally, we have also discovered that any person can have a NIF by producing a national ID and proof of their overseas address. We're going to Finanças to put that to the test this afternoon.


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

JohnBoy said:


> Thanks. Coincidentally, we have also discovered that any person can have a NIF by producing a national ID and proof of their overseas address. We're going to Finanças to put that to the test this afternoon.


Well that worked a treat. My friend showed his UK passport and produced a letter from his Australian bank showing his last address in Australia. Quite what that proves I don't know as he has moved out and has no intention of ever going back! My Portuguese friend offered to be his fiscal representative, showed her ID, €10.20 changed hands and my friend now has his NIF and bank account. Once we had got to the front of the queue, it took less than 10 minutes in Finanças.

I wonder how dubuguy is getting on.


----------



## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

I got NIF and bank account at the same time just by making an appointment at a Portuguese bank's office (not branch) in London then popped in as I was passing with Passport + couple of UK bills before. Bank account was set up at my chosen branch in Portugal, and NIF was on the spot. Multibank debit card then PIN arrived at UK address before flew over. Other banks did similar but BCP's coffee is exceptional.


Millennium B C P  
63 Queen Victoria St, London EC4N 4UA
Phone: 020 7489 4800


----------



## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Strontium said:


> I got NIF and bank account at the same time just by making an appointment at a Portuguese bank's office (not branch) in London then popped in as I was passing with Passport + couple of UK bills before. Bank account was set up at my chosen branch in Portugal, and NIF was on the spot. Multibank debit card then PIN arrived at UK address before flew over. Other banks did similar but BCP's coffee is exceptional.
> 
> 
> Millennium B C P
> ...


The NIF that is given out by the bank is only a temporary one. Once in PT you should really go to your local Finanças office and exchange it for a permanent one. I'm afraid that it comes with a cost of €10.20 though!


----------

