# Cash for daily use?



## Raypinciotti

A few threads got me thinking...how do you get cash for daily use? How do you guys deal with money for daily transactions? Something other than credit cards because I would really rather not give away my credit card every time I get gas at the gasolinera. There is a fee now of 3% on withdrawals from debit cards, right?.... Sigh, it used to be so much easier.


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## Isla Verde

Raypinciotti said:


> A few threads got me thinking...how do you get cash for daily use? How do you guys deal with money for daily transactions? Something other than credit cards because I would really rather not give away my credit card every time I get gas at the gasolinera. There is a fee now of 3% on withdrawals from debit cards, right?.... Sigh, it used to be so much easier.


When I need cash, I go to my neighborhood Santander branch and withdraw the pesos I need from the ATM from the account I have with them. I live mostly on my US Social Security benefits and my monthly pension is automatically deposited to my Santander account from the US. No fees involved.


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## TundraGreen

Raypinciotti said:


> A few threads got me thinking...how do you get cash for daily use? How do you guys deal with money for daily transactions? Something other than credit cards because I would really rather not give away my credit card every time I get gas at the gasolinera. There is a fee now of 3% on withdrawals from debit cards, right?.... Sigh, it used to be so much easier.


The fee on ATM withdrawals depends on your bank. Shop around. When I get cash, the ATM tells me there will be a $25 peso fee independent of how much cash I get. But the fee never shows up on my bank statement. The rate is always close to the published rate for the day.


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## Raypinciotti

Isla Verde said:


> When I need cash, I go to my neighborhood Santander branch and withdraw the pesos I need from the account I have with them. I live mostly on my US Social Security benefits and my monthly pension is automatically deposited to my Santander account from the US. No fees involved.


 you have a Santander account in the US? How did you get that??? Is the account in dollars? I should clarify that I am not talking about ATM fees, I am talking about a 3% currency conversion fee I was hit with last time I used an ATM in Mexico.


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## Raypinciotti

TundraGreen said:


> The fee on ATM withdrawals depends on your bank. Shop around. When I get cash, the ATM tells me there will be a $25 peso fee independent of how much cash I get. But the fee never shows up on my bank statement. The rate is always close to the published rate for the day.


 
It is not a withdrawal fee, it is a 3% "currency conversion fee" Maybe I should have clarified that


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## Isla Verde

Raypinciotti said:


> you have a Santander account in the US? How did you get that??? Is the account in dollars? I should clarify that I am not talking about ATM fees, I am talking about a 3% currency conversion fee I was hit with last time I used an ATM in Mexico.


Your initial post on this thread asked about getting cash for daily needs from a bank, and I told you how I do that. I opened my Santander account in 2008 in Mexico, about a year after moving here. My account is in pesos.


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## coondawg

Some debit (see Schwab) cards have no 3% fee in Mexico.


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## WintheWin

My debit account doesn't have a transaction/conversion fee. My credit card does.
I use my debit card for atm withdrawals/swiping, and use my US credit card to buy stuff online/stateside.

It seems to really vary between banks.


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## sparks

The 3% is usually the international fee that some banks charge. My credit card fee was 3% also

Only use a credit card for major purchases .... get cash with your debit card


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## TundraGreen

WintheWin said:


> My debit account doesn't have a transaction/conversion fee. My credit card does.
> I use my debit card for atm withdrawals/swiping, and use my US credit card to buy stuff online/stateside.
> 
> It seems to really vary between banks.


Ditto


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## Raypinciotti

So, if I understand correctly you guys have either American debit cards with no currency conversion fees or Mexican debit cards where you get deposits for cash.... Any preference in banks? I used to love my BoA debit card because I could use it in any Santander but I got hit with the 3% conversion fee there and I'll be looking for other options. So, any favorite banks with good conversion rate?


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## chuck846

My personal experience seems to differ from others here.

I have found that my Schwab debit card and my BofA credit card - both of which have Visa icons on them - provide the same exchange rate when used in Mexico - something less than 1%. Visa has a website where they post their daily exchange rate. It is based on the previous day's rate and I believe does not change throughout the day. I have never used my Schwab debit card at an ATM - in fact I only have used it once to confirm the exchange rate - but Schwab would reimburse me any ATM fees (on a monthly basis).

I use my BofA Cisa card for just about everything at the moment - except the small stuff. I even use it at Costco - foregoing the give-back Costco provides when I use their Banamex based credit card.

As for cash - I use my HSBC (Mexico) debit card at the ATM.

btw : I have not found MasterCard to be as competitive as Visa.


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## chuck846

Here is the link to the Visa daily currency converter :
https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/

(which does not appear to be working at the moment).

For both my BofA rewards card and my Schwab debit card the 'bank fee' is 0%.


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## chuck846

I checked earlier today and that link was working.
Today's Visa exchange rate was 18.80 or so.


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## RVGRINGO

The XE rate is 19.14 per dollar at the moment.


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## chuck846

That is today's rate. As I mentioned the Visa rate is based on yesterday. Tomorrow - the Visa site most likely will quote something higher than 18.80.

If it raises much higher we will use Schwab to convert more dollars to pesos. To think - we bought our house at 13.60... But my wife showed me an article which said it may get to 23:1. Who knows.


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## coondawg

RVGRINGO said:


> The XE rate is 19.14 per dollar at the moment.


And that is a fee free rate like Schwab and BofA ? Or not? Apples to apples, or not?


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## chuck846

coondawg said:


> And that is a fee free rate like Schwab and BofA ? Or not? Apples to apples, or not?


The answer to your question is, no, that is not the rate which you will get for an exchange. That quote is the 'mid-market' or what I prefer to call 'spot'. It is the same price you will find on yahoo.com if you enter USD/MXN as a symbol. 

I've never used XE.COM - but I have from time to time exchanged dollars for pesos and wired the pesos to Mexico. There has always been a 3 day settlement period - just like when you purchase a stock. A recent transfer incurred a 1/2 % exchange fee (no wire fees).


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## chuck846

And - interestingly - the Visa exchange rate is 19.18 at the moment and the spot rate is 19.11 ! Good day to go to Costco or Walmart and use your Visa card.


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## MJD13

Whoever said you need to shop around is largely correct. As noted, the international currency conversion fee of (typically) 3% is the fee to be eliminated. Someone mentioned Schwab brokerage accounts...we don't use Schwab but I understand that you can do an ATM withdrawal from a money market type account without the 3% being charged and, if I remember correctly, they also refund the smaller ATM usage fees. 

Longish story short....we now use our brokerage account at RBC for ATM withdrawals even though they charge 1% on the currency conversion. FYI, we setup a special sub account for just that purpose with a limited amount of dollars in it in case there is an "issue". Then, happily, we now have a Mastercard through Barclay's (a Barclaycard) that doesn't charge the 3%. That particular card is attached to American Airlines but could be available otherwise. I've checked the exchange rate on purchases and it's spot on.

My observation is that brokerage accounts are a better deal than most banks for ATM withdrawals. 

We're in Mexico about 10 months a year and prefer to keep our accounts in the USA. We keep hidden a small stockpile of pesos and dollars in case there should be a problem with the ATMs and, on occasion, have had to use it. In the future, we may establish a local bank account with a limited amount of money in it for our property manager to use in our absence.

That's all I know!


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## Lawgrrl

:confused2: Shopping around will be worthwhile! Capital One cards don't charge a foreign transaction fee. They issue MasterCards and have a variety of rewards, cash-back, and no-annual fee cards available. Discover Card doesn't charge a foreign transaction fee either. While Discover isn't readily accepted in Mexico as a credit card, it is a member of the Pulse ATM network. We found several Pulse ATMs in Mazatlan. Our credit union in Portland, OR charges a 1% forex fee, no charge for using an in-network ATM (we used Santander's as I found them least confusing) but does charge $2 to check my balance at a foreign ATM.
For Canadians, the card from Amazon.ca is a good deal; no annual fee and no foreign transaction fee. It doesn't appear that the US Amazon.com card is comparable.
Good luck!


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## Howler

Great info Lawgrrl! Now here's something for veterans: I use my USAA VISA/debit card all the time when I am down in Mexico. It refunds back to me all of the ATM transaction fees I get charged at ALL banks, even here in the US... and I haven't ever noticed a "conversion transaction fee" charged on my statement for every time I get just cash. Depending on where I use the card, for example in a restaurant or hotel, sometimes the rate may be slightly different than when I actually swiped it depending on how long it takes them to post the purchase or charge. Sometimes my statement shows me what the exchange rate was, most times it just shows the transaction in dollars (which are usually weird amounts because of the conversion).

If you keep track of your receipts, you can use them to compare charges on your statements and calculate the exchanges for each transaction. Of course, MJD13 had good advice to keep some pesos available for if the ATMs are unavailable or if someone can't or doesn't want to accept your card.


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## ClinSpan

There are some credit unions in the U.S. that waive (at least in part) the foreign transaction/withdrawal fee. Shop around.


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## HolyMole

Lawgrrl said:


> :confused2: Shopping around will be worthwhile! Capital One cards don't charge a foreign transaction fee. They issue MasterCards and have a variety of rewards, cash-back, and no-annual fee cards available. Discover Card doesn't charge a foreign transaction fee either. While Discover isn't readily accepted in Mexico as a credit card, it is a member of the Pulse ATM network. We found several Pulse ATMs in Mazatlan. Our credit union in Portland, OR charges a 1% forex fee, no charge for using an in-network ATM (we used Santander's as I found them least confusing) but does charge $2 to check my balance at a foreign ATM.
> For Canadians, the card from Amazon.ca is a good deal; no annual fee and no foreign transaction fee. It doesn't appear that the US Amazon.com card is comparable.
> Good luck!


Interesting. This topic goes round and round and never, it seems, reaches a final conclusion that satisfies anyone.
Since Scotiabank has branches all over Mexico, we opened a Scotiabank senior's account in Canada, and have exclusively used their debit card for all our Mexican cash needs. Scotiabank ATM transactions are free around the world for Scotb. account holders, so we save the 25-to-80 peso charges per transaction levied by many other banks .....but we seem to pay extremely high foreign currency exchange fees. Historically, those fees used to be around 2.5%, which was pretty standard across the industry. Now, they run around 3% and sometimes up to as much as 4%. I complained to Scotiabank Canada, who passed the buck, saying that Scotiabank Mexico sets the rates....which I don't believe for a minute.
For reference purposes, I use xe.com, which I believe is a "mid-range rate". Scotiabank, however, seems to set their exchange rate for the day based on whatever standards they use as of midnight of the previous day. In other words, the exchange rate you'll pay for any and all ATM withdrawals on a Tuesday are based on the rate that Scotiabank set sometime during the night before. I've tested this a few times, and the proof is that two withdrawals at different times during the day show the same exchange rate, even though rates, as we know, change by the minute during the day. Further proof is that the foreign currency exchange rates remain exactly the same for all Scotiabank ATM withdrawals made on a Saturday or Sunday: the rate for the entire weekend was set overnight on Friday.
I'm intrigued by your note of an account from Amazon.ca - but if it's only a credit card, I'll pass: we've heard enough horror stories of hacked credit cards in Mexico that we simply never use one. But if anyone can suggest a Canadian debit card where we can avoid paying these usurious 3 - 4% currency exchange fees, we're all ears.


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## tcreek

I use BANSEFI (Banco del Ahorro Nacional y Servicios Financieros). Only a 11.60 Peso fee for US cards.


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## Lawgrrl

HolyMole said:


> Interesting....
> I'm intrigued by your note of an account from Amazon.ca - but if it's only a credit card, I'll pass: we've heard enough horror stories of hacked credit cards in Mexico that we simply never use one. But if anyone can suggest a Canadian debit card where we can avoid paying these usurious 3 - 4% currency exchange fees, we're all ears.


HolyMole - You might try looking into a credit union. Here in B.C., Coast Capital is big. Their website states that the fee for using an international ATM is $5, or $2.15 for "high-interest" accounts, plus 2% per transaction. 
As for the Amazon Visa, the charge for a "cash advance" (which I believe can be made from an ATM) is only *1%* of the cash advance amount: "We will bill you in Canadian Currency if you use your account to make a transaction in foreign currency. We will convert it into Canadian currency at the exchange rate set by Visa International in effect at the time we post the transaction to your account. This exchange rate may be different from the rate in effect on the transaction date. We will not charge you any additional foreign currency conversion charge. "
:canada:


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## tcreek

More data...I use the PayPal Debit card. charge almost noting for using an ATM. 

For using as a Credit Card something like $1 fee per $100 for international transaction, but I get it back from the 1% Cash Back Program


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## LuvBugLiz21

I still have a bank account in the states so I just use my debit card at the ATM to withdrawal pesos. Or as one poster said, a paypal debit card is basically the same thing with very little fees!


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## HolyMole

Lawgrrl said:


> HolyMole - You might try looking into a credit union. Here in B.C., Coast Capital is big. Their website states that the fee for using an international ATM is $5, or $2.15 for "high-interest" accounts, plus 2% per transaction.
> As for the Amazon Visa, the charge for a "cash advance" (which I believe can be made from an ATM) is only *1%* of the cash advance amount: "We will bill you in Canadian Currency if you use your account to make a transaction in foreign currency. We will convert it into Canadian currency at the exchange rate set by Visa International in effect at the time we post the transaction to your account. This exchange rate may be different from the rate in effect on the transaction date. We will not charge you any additional foreign currency conversion charge. "
> :canada:


I will look into Coast Capital: I think they might have a branch in my BC town. Of course the devil is always in the details. For example: a 2% per transaction fee based on what? There are hundreds of ways to quote foreign currency rates, and trying to pin down any particular financial institution is like trying to pin down a fart in a frying pan. One more reason for regulations in the financial industry, so consumers can make decisions based on apples-to-apples information. But those same institutions will fight tooth and nail against anything that will tie their hands in the effort to confuse consumers.
By the way, add that $5 per transaction ATM fee to the 2% foreign exchange fee.....and for a 6000 peso ATM withdrawal, you're right up around a 3% total charge. In spite of claims to the contrary, I've yet to see any convincing information from anyone that these foreign ATM withdrawals can be made without paying somewhere in the range of 2-4% in total charges.....or those NOB accounts that the withdrawals are coming out of have such onerous requirements, (very high monthly fees, or having to maintain a huge balance, etc) that it's a wash when you take everything into account. At the risk of being repetitive, the banks don't do anything for free.


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## TundraGreen

HolyMole said:


> I will look into Coast Capital: I think they might have a branch in my BC town. Of course the devil is always in the details. For example: a 2% per transaction fee based on what? There are hundreds of ways to quote foreign currency rates, and trying to pin down any particular financial institution is like trying to pin down a fart in a frying pan. One more reason for regulations in the financial industry, so consumers can make decisions based on apples-to-apples information. But those same institutions will fight tooth and nail against anything that will tie their hands in the effort to confuse consumers.
> By the way, add that $5 per transaction ATM fee to the 2% foreign exchange fee.....and for a 6000 peso ATM withdrawal, you're right up around a 3% total charge. In spite of claims to the contrary, I've yet to see any convincing information from anyone that these foreign ATM withdrawals can be made without paying somewhere in the range of 2-4% in total charges.....or those NOB accounts that the withdrawals are coming out of have such onerous requirements, (very high monthly fees, or having to maintain a huge balance, etc) that it's a wash when you take everything into account. At the risk of being repetitive, the banks don't do anything for free.


You are right about the banks not doing anything for free. I don't begrudge them earning some profit, but you are also absolutely correct that they need to be regulated.

I just checked a recent ATM withdrawal (2015-12-30). 
The Yahoo conversion rate for that day was 17.2556. 
The XE rate for the day was 17.3429
The rate the bank gave me was 17.1663. 

There were no other fees. So it looks like I lost maybe a half percent or one percent. The bank isn't losing any money. I keep a good balance in the account for which they pay me interest at an annual rate of 0.03%.


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## chuck846

TundraGreen said:


> You are right about the banks not doing anything for free. I don't begrudge them earning some profit, but you are also absolutely correct that they need to be regulated.
> 
> I just checked a recent ATM withdrawal (2015-12-30).
> The Yahoo conversion rate for that day was 17.2556.
> The XE rate for the day was 17.3429
> The rate the bank gave me was 17.1663.
> 
> There were no other fees. So it looks like I lost maybe a half percent or one percent. The bank isn't losing any money. I keep a good balance in the account for which they pay me interest at an annual rate of 0.03%.


I'm no expert - but I have put in some time investigating this topic.

Did you call XE and ask for a quote on an exchange or are you providing the value their web-site presented ? If the later - at any moment in time XE should be virtually identical to a Yahoo finance quote - as it is at this very moment. According to Yahoo's data - the high for the dollar/peso for 12/30/15 was 17.36.

Looking at the Visa exchange rate calculator -
the rate on 12/29 was 17.27
the rate on 12/30 was 17.20
the rate on 12/31 was 17.34

Those are the exchange rates you would have received from your Visa debit/credit card had you used it in Mexico. (the Visa rate is based on the value of the peso the day before).

I suspect you bank charged you 1% on the exchange plus a very small handling fee - for a small transaction that isn't so bad. HSBC US <->HSBC Mexico interbank transfer will take like 3%. Schwab's debit card is based on the Visa rates.


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## TundraGreen

chuck846 said:


> I'm no expert - but I have put in some time investigating this topic.
> 
> Did you call XE and ask for a quote on an exchange or are you providing the value their web-site presented ? If the later - at any moment in time XE should be virtually identical to a Yahoo finance quote - as it is at this very moment. According to Yahoo's data - the high for the dollar/peso for 12/30/15 was 17.36.
> 
> Looking at the Visa exchange rate calculator -
> the rate on 12/29 was 17.27
> the rate on 12/30 was 17.20
> the rate on 12/31 was 17.34
> 
> Those are the exchange rates you would have received from your Visa debit/credit card had you used it in Mexico. (the Visa rate is based on the value of the peso the day before).
> 
> I suspect you bank charged you 1% on the exchange plus a very small handling fee - for a small transaction that isn't so bad. HSBC US <->HSBC Mexico interbank transfer will take like 3%. Schwab's debit card is based on the Visa rates.


I just looked at the historic values on the Yahoo and XE web sites. The bank doesn't show a separate fee.The rate I got was the ratio of the pesos I withdrew to the dollars they debited from my account. If I remember, I will ask the bank how they do it next time I call them.


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## chuck846

TundraGreen said:


> I just looked at the historic values on the Yahoo and XE web sites. The bank doesn't show a separate fee.The rate I got was the ratio of the pesos I withdrew to the dollars they debited from my account. If I remember, I will ask the bank how they do it next time I call them.


On the Yahoo site (which is all I have since closing my TD Ameritrade account) for USD/MXN I look at a 3 month chart and move the mouse over the chart. Is there another way to get a historical quote for USD/MXN ?


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## HolyMole

TundraGreen said:


> You are right about the banks not doing anything for free. I don't begrudge them earning some profit, but you are also absolutely correct that they need to be regulated.
> 
> I just checked a recent ATM withdrawal (2015-12-30).
> The Yahoo conversion rate for that day was 17.2556.
> The XE rate for the day was 17.3429
> The rate the bank gave me was 17.1663.
> 
> There were no other fees. So it looks like I lost maybe a half percent or one percent. The bank isn't losing any money. I keep a good balance in the account for which they pay me interest at an annual rate of 0.03%.


Sounds like you're getting a pretty good deal from your financial institution.
But I'm curious about your mentioning the Yahoo or XE rate "for the day", or "for that day". The posted exchange rates vary throughout the day (they certainly do on xe.com). Is there a fixed daily rate shown somewhere that I'm not aware of?

Using my fee-free Scotiabank debit card, if the xe.com rate posted late at night is, say, 13.3000 pesos/Canadian $, the next day I'll get somewhere between 12.77 and 12.90....or a currency exchange fee of between 3 and 4%. That's usury, in my book.


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## ojosazules11

In terms of Canadian banks, I have a TD Canada Trust debit on an account which does not charge me a fee for international ATM withdrawals. I still have to pay the local ATM fee (usually 25 or 35 pesos). 

Looking at recent withdrawals it looks like there is about a 3% difference between the conversion rate for our withdrawals (MXN$12.94/CDN$1 ) and the XE midmarket rate (MXN$13.34/CDN$). However, that midmarket rate is not what XE gives you if you actually send a transfer via their service (I used them in the past when sending large amounts for house purchase). The midmarket rate is a bit better than what they actually end up giving you on a transfer (but it was still better than the bank rate). XE also charged a $15 fee per transaction. It was worth it for large transfers, it isn't as practical for day to day stuff.


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## chuck846

HolyMole said:


> Sounds like you're getting a pretty good deal from your financial institution.
> But I'm curious about your mentioning the Yahoo or XE rate "for the day", or "for that day". The posted exchange rates vary throughout the day (they certainly do on xe.com). Is there a fixed daily rate shown somewhere that I'm not aware of?
> 
> Using my fee-free Scotiabank debit card, if the xe.com rate posted late at night is, say, 13.3000 pesos/Canadian $, the next day I'll get somewhere between 12.77 and 12.90....or a currency exchange fee of between 3 and 4%. That's usury, in my book.


You want to find alternative. You are not being treated fairly.


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## TundraGreen

HolyMole said:


> Sounds like you're getting a pretty good deal from your financial institution.
> But I'm curious about your mentioning the Yahoo or XE rate "for the day", or "for that day". The posted exchange rates vary throughout the day (they certainly do on xe.com). Is there a fixed daily rate shown somewhere that I'm not aware of?
> 
> Using my fee-free Scotiabank debit card, if the xe.com rate posted late at night is, say, 13.3000 pesos/Canadian $, the next day I'll get somewhere between 12.77 and 12.90....or a currency exchange fee of between 3 and 4%. That's usury, in my book.


For that post, I went to the XE and Yahoo sites and put in the date in the past. It just gave me one rate for the day. I think with Yahoo, the option to set the date was right there. With XE, I think I had to click on history or something.


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## chuck846

ojosazules11 said:


> In terms of Canadian banks, I have a TD Canada Trust debit on an account which does not charge me a fee for international ATM withdrawals. I still have to pay the local ATM fee (usually 25 or 35 pesos).
> 
> Looking at recent withdrawals it looks like there is about a 3% difference between the conversion rate for our withdrawals (MXN$12.94/CDN$1 ) and the XE midmarket rate (MXN$13.34/CDN$). However, that midmarket rate is not what XE gives you if you actually send a transfer via their service (I used them in the past when sending large amounts for house purchase). The midmarket rate is a bit better than what they actually end up giving you on a transfer (but it was still better than the bank rate). XE also charged a $15 fee per transaction. It was worth it for large transfers, it isn't as practical for day to day stuff.


Of all the possible 'stickies' for sites such as this - folks should iron out what is the best approach to transferring money - instead of all this back and forth every couple months. It is not rocket science.


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## ojosazules11

chuck846 said:


> Of all the possible 'stickies' for sites such as this - folks should iron out what is the best approach to transferring money - instead of all this back and forth every couple months. It is not rocket science.




I don't go back and forth every couple of months. When we did large transfers for buying the property a couple of years ago, XE made the most sense for transferring Canadian funds. Believe me, I investigated numerous options. For our current needs, debit withdrawals at an ATM make the most sense. 

Remember, as Canadians our options are different than those in the US, and from what I can tell, more limited. Like HolyMole I'm always on the look-out for something which will give me a better deal. Schwab sounds great, but not an option for those of us in Canada. 

What I didn't mention in my post above is that even though our debit card exchange is currently around 12.94 (MXN/CDN) compared to the 13.34 mid-market rate, a recent Bank of Montreal MasterCard purchase was effectively only 11.8, so we really are avoiding using the credit card.


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## chuck846

ojosazules11 said:


> I don't go back and forth every couple of months. When we did large transfers for buying the property a couple of years ago, XE made the most sense for transferring Canadian funds. Believe me, I investigated numerous options. For our current needs, debit withdrawals at an ATM make the most sense.
> 
> Remember, as Canadians our options are different than those in the US, and from what I can tell, more limited. Like HolyMole I'm always on the look-out for something which will give me a better deal. Schwab sounds great, but not an option for those of us in Canada.
> 
> What I didn't mention in my post above is that even though our debit card exchange is currently around 12.94 (MXN/CDN) compared to the 13.34 mid-market rate, a recent Bank of Montreal MasterCard purchase was effectively only 11.8, so we really are avoiding using the credit card.


In no way was I implying that you - personally - go back and forth - simply that forums such as this raise the same question over and over. 

I also (assumed) that Charles Schwab International included Canadians. When we met with the Schwab rep out of the US (in Mexico City) he said they realized the potential market.

<edit> I copied your text for context.


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## ojosazules11

chuck846 said:


> In no way was I implying that you - personally - go back and forth - simply that forums such as this raise the same question over and over.
> 
> I also (assumed) that Charles Schwab International included Canadians. When we met with the Schwab rep out of the US (in Mexico City) he said they realized the potential market.


Oh, I guess I misunderstood your post.

I saw Charles Schwab has a branch in Vancouver, but turns out that's Vancouver, Washington! Apparently once upon a time there was a Charles Schwab Canada, but it was sold off to Scotiabank in 2002. Pity.


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## chuck846

ojosazules11 said:


> Oh, I guess I misunderstood your post.
> 
> I saw Charles Schwab has a branch in Vancouver, but turns out that's Vancouver, Washington! Apparently once upon a time there was a Charles Schwab Canada, but it was sold off to Scotiabank in 2002. Pity.


Open an Account

That should work for you.


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## ojosazules11

chuck846 said:


> Open an Account
> 
> That should work for you.


Thanks for the link. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since this is for investment in US securities, wouldn't I have to then convert my Canadian dollars into US$, then from US to MXN? The double exchange would likely end up being more costly than just using my debit at the ATM. 

Also, for some countries (e.g. Germany and Mexico) clicking the open account button takes you to the next step of the application. But for Canada there is a message: "Due to industry regulations, Schwab will need to review the details of your specific situation before proceeding with your account application." So it may be trickier for Canadians. 

But always good to have the link posted in case someone wants to pursue it further!


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## HolyMole

Admittedly, the following information concerns credit cards for Canadian travelers, but it is timely:

Video: Carrick Talks Money: Where can I find a credit card that doesn’t charge foreign exchange fees? - The Globe and Mail


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## ojosazules11

HolyMole said:


> Admittedly, the following information concerns credit cards for Canadian travelers, but it is timely:
> 
> Video: Carrick Talks Money: Where can I find a credit card that doesn’t charge foreign exchange fees? - The Globe and Mail


Interesting. I have an Amazon (Canada) card which I rarely use, and it would never have occurred to me that that is the one to use in Mexico...


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## Lawgrrl

Holy Mole, I think I've found a solution for you and other Canadians -- the Tangerine Chequing Account. Tangerine was bought by Scotia Bank and the Tangerine debit card is honored at all Scotia ABMs/ATMs in Canada, AND at all Global ATM Alliance member banks, including the Scotiabanks in Zihuateneo. There is NO fee for using Scotia/Global ATMs, and there is NO foreign transaction fee. Amazingly, they even pay interest on chequing accounts with no minimum (not much, but who does today?)
There is a promotion going on now for opening new accounts. If you use the "key" of an existing customer, you should be able to get an additional $50 bonus. I don't have an account (yet) or a key, but Stephen Weyman of howtosavemoney(dot)ca posted this key on his site: 41502230S1
:fingerscrossed:


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## HolyMole

Lawgrrl said:


> Holy Mole, I think I've found a solution for you and other Canadians -- the Tangerine Chequing Account. Tangerine was bought by Scotia Bank and the Tangerine debit card is honored at all Scotia ABMs/ATMs in Canada, AND at all Global ATM Alliance member banks, including the Scotiabanks in Zihuateneo. There is NO fee for using Scotia/Global ATMs, and there is NO foreign transaction fee. Amazingly, they even pay interest on chequing accounts with no minimum (not much, but who does today?)
> There is a promotion going on now for opening new accounts. If you use the "key" of an existing customer, you should be able to get an additional $50 bonus. I don't have an account (yet) or a key, but Stephen Weyman of howtosavemoney(dot)ca posted this key on his site: 41502230S1
> :fingerscrossed:


I'll definitely look into Tangerine. I think this was the old ING DIRECT that I used to have an account with - Scotiabank bought out ING's on-line banking business. Later, I switched everything over to PRESIDENT'S CHOICE, where I've done the majority of my banking for the past 10 or more years. I also was involved with ALLY, another on-line bank that was bought-out by RBC.
PRESIDENT'S CHOICE charges an outrageous 5% (I think) fee to use their debit card at a foreign ATM, so that's a dead-end.
You say that Tangerine has "NO foreign transaction fee". I guess it comes down to what your (or their) definition is of the phrase "foreign transaction fee". If, in actuality, it means they do not charge a foreign currency exchange fee, (typically 2.5% at most financial institutions, often climbing as high as 4%), then we're in business. 
I'm sceptical. I haven't met a bank yet that does anything for nothing.
The other issue is what rate does the bank use, when you make that foreign ATM withdrawal? There's a big spread between the Buy and the Sell rates. Do they use a mid-rate? 
Anyway, thanks for the heads-up.


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## ojosazules11

HolyMole said:


> I'll definitely look into Tangerine. I think this was the old ING DIRECT that I used to have an account with - Scotiabank bought out ING's on-line banking business. Later, I switched everything over to PRESIDENT'S CHOICE, where I've done the majority of my banking for the past 10 or more years. I also was involved with ALLY, another on-line bank that was bought-out by RBC.
> PRESIDENT'S CHOICE charges an outrageous 5% (I think) fee to use their debit card at a foreign ATM, so that's a dead-end.
> You say that Tangerine has "NO foreign transaction fee". I guess it comes down to what your (or their) definition is of the phrase "foreign transaction fee". If, in actuality, it means they do not charge a foreign currency exchange fee, (typically 2.5% at most financial institutions, often climbing as high as 4%), then we're in business.
> I'm sceptical. I haven't met a bank yet that does anything for nothing.
> The other issue is what rate does the bank use, when you make that foreign ATM withdrawal? There's a big spread between the Buy and the Sell rates. Do they use a mid-rate?
> Anyway, thanks for the heads-up.


Please update us if you find out more details!


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## Lawgrrl

Here's the language from their Client Card (i.e., debit card) agreement:
"5. Foreign Currency Transactions

A Permitted Transaction in a foreign currency will be converted to the currency of your Account at an exchange rate determined by Tangerine on the date the Permitted Transaction is processed. This rate may differ from the rate in effect on the date of the Permitted Transaction."

I went all through the listed fees and didn't see "foreign transaction" fee listed. You are right that Tangerine will pick the exchange rate most advantageous to it.

I banked with Ally and ING when I lived in the States. One of the very few things I miss about the U.S. is the more robust financial services market and the lower fees.


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## HolyMole

Lawgrrl said:


> Here's the language from their Client Card (i.e., debit card) agreement:
> "5. Foreign Currency Transactions
> 
> A Permitted Transaction in a foreign currency will be converted to the currency of your Account at an exchange rate determined by Tangerine on the date the Permitted Transaction is processed. This rate may differ from the rate in effect on the date of the Permitted Transaction."
> 
> I went all through the listed fees and didn't see "foreign transaction" fee listed. You are right that Tangerine will pick the exchange rate most advantageous to it.
> 
> I banked with Ally and ING when I lived in the States. One of the very few things I miss about the U.S. is the more robust financial services market and the lower fees.


Thanks. As always, the devil is in the details. 
When we get back to Canada, I'll ask Tangerine to explain how they calculate "the exchange rate determined by Tangerine". If Tangerine are like every other financial institution I asked for that information, it's like asking for the secret to the crown jewels. First, they will advise that "international currency exchange rates fluctuate on a daily, even hourly basis".....like I just fell off the turnip truck. They will lead-off with this astounding information even if I preface my question by stating: "Please don't tell me that international currency exchange rates fluctuate on a daily, even an hourly basis. I'm quite aware of that fact."....etc.
I'll ask a simple question, like:
"How can I, as a Tangerine client, make a fairly accurate guess as to the number of Mexican pesos I will get for one Canadian dollar using my Tangerine debit card at an ATM affiliated with Tangerine? " 
Their response will begin:
"Dear HolyMole:
International currency exchange rates fluctuate on a daily......yadda, yadda."

Can you tell I'm not a fan of the Big Banks?


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## chuck846

I'm too lazy to start a new thread. I was on the phone today with Schwab and asked about their soon to be released 'free' American Express credit card. Apparently that becomes available this Thursday (3/31).


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## tcreek

A bank account I have has been acquired maybe two, or three times since I was given an account there back in 2009. I did not use it very much because of super high fees they would charge, but I kept it anyway, just in case.

Well, the recent acquisition has made it into "Bank Mobile" where they claimed completely free checking. Even includes the app for depositing checks from your phone. 

So I finally got around to testing them with local ATMs here in Mexico. After the transfer clears, the ATM charge is refunded by them. Also gone are the international fees for using the MasterCard Debit as a credit card.

Only problem I have had is they have to be informed of your status of being in another country, else the Debit function is disabled.

Bank Mobile


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## cutenu2

I've heard that if one has an account with Bank of America, they can use the Santander ATM to withdraw monies. I would like to open an account with Santander in the U.S. before I leave, but it is only on the East Coast. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?


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## Isla Verde

cutenu2 said:


> I've heard that if one has an account with Bank of America, they can use the Santander ATM to withdraw monies. I would like to open an account with Santander in the U.S. before I leave, but it is only on the East Coast. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?


I have an account with BofA and can withdraw pesos from it using Santander ATMs. It used to be free of charge, but as of about a year ago, BofA now charges a 3% fee for the use of this service. That's why I now have my US SS pension checks direct-deposited to my Santander account, where I can withdraw money for free and at a good exchange rate.


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## TundraGreen

cutenu2 said:


> I've heard that if one has an account with Bank of America, they can use the Santander ATM to withdraw monies. I would like to open an account with Santander in the U.S. before I leave, but it is only on the East Coast. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?


You can use an ATM for any bank to withdraw money from any other bank. I have used random ATMs in many countries. As long as the ATM has a Visa/Mastercard/Plus symbol you can get money from most any bank.

The trick is to find a combination that has low or no fees and a good exchange rate. I have found a combination that gives me an exchange rate that is about 0.5 pesos less that the quoted rates for the day. I.e. if the quoted daily rate is 17.5, the bank will give me 17 pesos for a dollar. This is about a 3% fee. I am not charged any other fees. I don't post banking information on public forums. There are probably better deals out there.

I haven't looked at Schwab accounts, but people here claim they have a good deal. Other banks you just have to check into the rates. I think you can mostly talk to the bank where your money is located. I believe they control the rate of exchange and they can choose whether or not to reimburse or pass on any fees charged by the ATM you use. I have used both Banamex and BBVA ATMs in Mexico. The Banamex says the fee will be around 35 pesos, the BBVA says 25 pesos. However, I never see the fee on my bank statement.


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## StanJ

cutenu2 said:


> I've heard that if one has an account with Bank of America, they can use the Santander ATM to withdraw monies. I would like to open an account with Santander in the U.S. before I leave, but it is only on the East Coast. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?


Many large US banks have a cooperative agreement with a cousin bank in Mexico - the people at the main branch for your bank will know who they have agreements with. For BofA it's Santander. I've forgotten all of the companies on the list (used to have it on my Palm Pilot for people travelling with me). I've been using Santander ATMs for decades in Mexico, and BofA always refunded the charges. Reading Isla Verde's post, that may no longer be true. I have a platinum account with BofA, which may be what's different between the two of us.

I thought I'd seen the Santander name & logo here in Dallas, but Google is coming up empty. The corporate site is only listing banking locations up & down the East coast.


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## Isla Verde

StanJ said:


> I've been using Santander ATMs for decades in Mexico, and BofA always refunded the charges. Reading Isla Verde's post, that may no longer be true. I have a platinum account with BofA, which may be what's different between the two of us.


What is a platinum account with BofA? Mine is an ordinary "stainless-steel" account.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> What is a platinum account with BofA? Mine is an ordinary "stainless-steel" account.


Most every bank has a fancy account with a required minimum balance. If you stay above the minimum balance, you get special privileges, like no monthly fee, a separate line at branches, etc.


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## chuck846

Isla Verde said:


> What is a platinum account with BofA? Mine is an ordinary "stainless-steel" account.


Our account at BofA is a "Bank of America Preferred Client" account.
I have no idea what that means - but we have had the account for many years and it has a decent balance.

If BofA has a 'cousin' bank in Mexico we haven't found it.
You would think that HSBC US would have a relationship with HSBC Mexico. Not the case.
Banamex is OWNED by Citi. Guess that makes Banamex like an hijo ? Citi wants a VERY large account balance to deal with a Mexican expat.


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## chuck846

Found this :

Bank of America Preferred Rewards Program

If you are 'Platinum Honors' you get a 20% boost on your mm interest rate. Now there is a incentive /sarc .

We do have a free safe-deposit box - which I think is empty at this point.


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## Isla Verde

chuck846 said:


> Found this :
> 
> Bank of America Preferred Rewards Program
> 
> If you are 'Platinum Honors' you get a 20% boost on your mm interest rate. Now there is a incentive /sarc .
> 
> We do have a free safe-deposit box - which I think is empty at this point.


Interest rate? What's that?  I get no interest on my BofA account and never have.


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## Isla Verde

chuck846 said:


> If BofA has a 'cousin' bank in Mexico we haven't found it.


At least since 2007 (the year I moved permanently to Mexico), BofA has had a "cousin-bank" relationship with Santander. You used to be able to withdraw pesos from your BofA account for free at all Santander ATMs. Now a 3% service charge is levied.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> Interest rate? What's that?  I get no interest on my BofA account and never have.


You aren't missing much. I have about $200 in a US Savings account. Every month they dutifully post USD $ 0.01 to my balance. The annual interest rate is 0.06%.


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## chuck846

Isla Verde said:


> At least since 2007 (the year I moved permanently to Mexico), BofA has had a "cousin-bank" relationship with Santander. You used to be able to withdraw pesos from your BofA account for free at all Santander ATMs. Now a 3% service charge is levied.


When it comes to banks very little is 'free'. Our status at BofA makes the people on the other end of the phone call more cordial perhaps. They always say - 'thank you for being a preferred client'  What I do find unusual is that BofA has our Mexican address as our primary residence (and only address). Most US financial firms hate non-residents. And when I needed a new credit card - they got it to me here in Mexico in a couple/few days.

Our BofA Visa credit card is an excellent way (at the moment) for us to exchange dollars for pesos (on purchases) and leave our pesos in the bank.

Sadly - I think there are a lot of expats who really don't understand (or care ?) about the costs involved in moving monies from NOB to SOB. Banks are really not your friend.


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## chuck846

TundraGreen said:


> You aren't missing much. I have about $200 in a US Savings account. Every month they dutifully post USD $ 0.01 to my balance. The annual interest rate is 0.06%.


To think - before taxes we are getting as much as 4.11% interest on some of our Mexican CETES 

edit - and I have news for you - I bet the inflation rate is 'really' a lot higher in the US than Mexico.


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## joaquinx

chuck846 said:


> Found this :
> If you are 'Platinum Honors' you get a 20% boost on your mm interest rate. Now there is a incentive /sarc


a 20% boost on a less than 0,1% rate is not something I get excited about.


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## chuck846

joaquinx said:


> a 20% boost on a less than 0,1% rate is not something I get excited about.


sorry - /sarc means I was ending a sarcastic remark.


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## HolyMole

TundraGreen said:


> I haven't looked at Schwab accounts, but people here claim they have a good deal. Other banks you just have to check into the rates. I think you can mostly talk to the bank where your money is located. I believe they control the rate of exchange ..........


When I complained to Scotiabank Canada about the currency exchange rates being charged by Scotiabank's Zihuatanejo branch, (from 2.5 - 3.5%, sometimes running as high as 4%), Canada informed me that the rates are set by Scotiabank Mexico, and I should direct my comments to them. Classic passing the buck, as it were.


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## chuck846

HolyMole said:


> When I complained to Scotiabank Canada about the currency exchange rates being charged by Scotiabank's Zihuatanejo branch, (from 2.5 - 3.5%, sometimes running as high as 4%), Canada informed me that the rates are set by Scotiabank Mexico, and I should direct my comments to them. Classic passing the buck, as it were.


I can tell you from experience that HSBC US has no special relationship with HSBC Mexico. If you are Premium or Preferred or whatever they call it in one country you are in all of their countries. But you really only need to maintain a 'large-ish' balance in one place. But that doesn't buy you anything in terms of US<->Mexico transactions.

If I were Canadian - I would give TD Ameritrade a call and see how they would handle currency exchanges for you to Mexico. They are a Canadian firm no ? Perhas they will let you perform forex transactions and wire your pesos to Mexico. Just an idea.

btw - Did you see that ScottTrade (a large US brokerage) has told all their US clients from Canada that Canadian citizens are no longer welcome regardless of US immigration status. You can google 'scotttrade canadian' and you will get enough hits. 

The world is getting scarier all the time.


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## perropedorro

Just had a negative bank experience today, perhaps one that somebody already addressed. After having two bank transfers and a direct deposit from the US rejected by Santander, I was informed that all external fund transfers, even ones to my account, would not be permitted for six months. Just settled in and got around to opening an account in February. Bank manager confided that it was the law, something about inhibiting illegal money---as if they were going to confuse my state worker pension with the sort of money Chapo never had any problem moving around.


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## Isla Verde

perropedorro said:


> Just had a negative bank experience today, perhaps one that somebody already addressed. After having two bank transfers and a direct deposit from the US rejected by Santander, I was informed that all external fund transfers, even ones to my account, would not be permitted for six months. Just settled in and got around to opening an account in February. Bank manager confided that it was the law, something about inhibiting illegal money---as if they were going to confuse my state worker pension with the sort of money Chapo never had any problem moving around.


Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience with Santander. I also have an account with them and have had it since 2009. Last December the deposit of my monthly pension payment was denied. After several visits to the customer service supervisor, the problem was resolved, but it took a lot of work on the part of the very nice young woman who was helping me to finally unblock my account. It had something to do with security regulations, which were never clearly explained either to me or to her.


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## chuck846

perropedorro said:


> Just had a negative bank experience today, perhaps one that somebody already addressed. After having two bank transfers and a direct deposit from the US rejected by Santander, I was informed that all external fund transfers, even ones to my account, would not be permitted for six months. Just settled in and got around to opening an account in February. Bank manager confided that it was the law, something about inhibiting illegal money---as if they were going to confuse my state worker pension with the sort of money Chapo never had any problem moving around.


We closed our Santander account in 2014. Perhaps the worst banking experience we have ever had.

Your post raises some questions. The denied transactions originated in the US ? Do you know if you were transferring dollars or pesos ? Had you been making a lot of transfers prior to the denied ones ? Is your Santander account a 'Select' account ? Are they also denying outflows from your account (can you pay bills) ?

Since our coming to Mexico I have always been worried that some day capital controls would become a problem. We have squirreled away a few pesos for a rainy day.


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## joaquinx

I have been with HSBC since 2007 and have had only two times where bogus charges were on the account. I check my account almost every day and when the charges were posted, I went down to the branch and the agent there put me on a telephone to CDMX and I reported the charges. Within two day, the charges were reversed. 
I have more problems getting my BofA debit and credit cards delivered when they are about to expire.


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## qroo_Paul

We always use cash. Businesses will only give you a local discount here (Playa del Carmen to Tulum) if you pay in cash.


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## Anonimo

*Cetes*



chuck846 said:


> To think - before taxes we are getting as much as 4.11% interest on some of our Mexican CETES
> 
> edit - and I have news for you - I bet the inflation rate is 'really' a lot higher in the US than Mexico.


Please explain what are cetes.


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## chuck846

Anonimo said:


> Please explain what are cetes.


A Cete is like a Mexican government CD. I think they are often referred to as CEDE - but not sure.

When it comes to Mexico - as I understand it - they (cetes) are one of the most secure of investments. You are not purchasing a pagare from a bank - which may go belly-up but a government security. Kind of like a US treasury bond I guess.

At one point I posted some links to more info but those links were deleted as unwanted solicitations - which they were not. I have NO skin in that game.

You can google 'cetes directo' to learn more.

That 4.11% interest I mentioned grew to 4.47% last Tuesday. But you need to believe in Mexico's future.


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## Isla Verde

chuck846 said:


> At one point I posted some links to more info but those links were deleted as unwanted solicitations - which they were not. I have NO skin in that game.


They were deleted because of Forum Rule #10: 

*Do not use the forum as a place for advertising.*

You may not make posts to promote commercial, personal, or not-for-profit websites, products, or services.
Don't therefore post unsolicited URL's in threads unless a specific request for information has been requested by a poster.

I should also like to remind you of Forum Rule #5: Please don’t discuss moderator or admin actions in the forums. Use the PM facility to contact moderators.

Thanks for your cooperation!


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## chuck846

Isla Verde said:


> They were deleted because of Forum Rule #10:
> 
> *Do not use the forum as a place for advertising.*
> 
> You may not make posts to promote commercial, personal, or not-for-profit websites, products, or services.
> Don't therefore post unsolicited URL's in threads unless a specific request for information has been requested by a poster.
> 
> I should also like to remind you of Forum Rule #5: Please don’t discuss moderator or admin actions in the forums. Use the PM facility to contact moderators.
> 
> Thanks for your cooperation!


Good bye. (Is there a rule for that ?)


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## joaquinx

perropedorro said:


> Just had a negative bank experience today, perhaps one that somebody already addressed. After having two bank transfers and a direct deposit from the US rejected by Santander, I was informed that all external fund transfers, even ones to my account, would not be permitted for six months. Just settled in and got around to opening an account in February. Bank manager confided that it was the law, something about inhibiting illegal money---as if they were going to confuse my state worker pension with the sort of money Chapo never had any problem moving around.


This could be a branch problem rather than a Santander national problem. My neighbor has an account with Santander and makes a number of transfers to FX agencies and transfers back. Now, he doesn't do these every week, but once a month, both in and out. He has never had a problem. He also makes transfers from his bank to a person in another bank (not Santander) monthly and again without problems.


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## perropedorro

joaquinx said:


> This could be a branch problem rather than a Santander national problem. My neighbor has an account with Santander and makes a number of transfers to FX agencies and transfers back....


Still unsuccessful with setting this up at Santander, although three trips to the bank later they gave me a cute little red dongle, a SuperToken, yet another level of security that seems impenetrable, even for their clients. Go through the process of giving the Alta to link an external account---mine's at one of the very biggest U.S. banks--- so I put in the account, routing, and it insists that I'm attempting to link to an account at MONEX. It might be helpful for me to be aware of what this is.


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## Isla Verde

chuck846 said:


> Good bye. (Is there a rule for that ?)


Sorry to see you go, chuck.


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