# Personal Safety for women



## tgrear2008

Greetings, 

I'll be arriving in Egypt late August with the new batch of teachers. Cheers and hurray for that! haha.

I've been reading this forum quite a bit, and have picked up some good info. I appreciate it.

Next year, I might be getting hitched, and then bring my wife with me. That gives me concern. As I read stories and watch debates on Al Jazeera on the epidemic of sexual harassment in Egypt, it certainly gives me doubts to whether it is a good idea to bring her, or just have her wait until I'm finished. I know you guys can't make that decision for me, but, hey ladies...can you comment on the situation on the ground?

Also, is anyone carrying pepper spray, tasers, batons, kobutans, tactical flashlights, or even safety whistles? I assume the whistle and flashlight is fine to carry, but I doubt it about the other stuff- maybe a keychain kobutan. 

Let me know. Am I worrying too much? I know I should wait and see when I arrive, but on the other hand, I am not a woman. Is my future wife going to be a prisoner in our apt?

Thanks


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## MaidenScotland

Hello and welcome to the forum
Congratulations on your future nuptials,

Sexual harassment is not new here, just that some will now accept it happens but on saying that.

I have lived here for many years and pre revolution thought nothing of walking home at 2am in the morning or using a taxi to go some distance.. I also used to walk to various places for the exercise, 

Now I do not use a taxi to go any further than a couple of miles and only if I know the way.. 
I also never walk now as I have no one to accompany me. 
I never carry a handbag, I use a bumbag,
I do not wear jewellery.
I do not carry any form of weapon..
I know women who are scared to go out alone
I know women who are not scared to go out alone,
I do not know a single women who has not had some sort of harassment.

The choice belongs to your wife and she might find she can handle it.. it also helps when you don't speak Arabic so you have no idea what disgusting whispers they are saying to you.

For me the biggest bugbear is that they always try to get up close and invade my space regardless of how much room there is.. a man passing just loves to brush against you and you might think ohh that is not so bad but when it is constant and daily then it becomes a different matter.


Sorry I cannot tell you what or not to do only that I can tell you my social life/shopping/leisure life has certainly taken a hammering,


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## canuck2010

I'm a guy so this isn't a problem for me, but one suggestion to limit the staring and/or other mild harassment is to invest in a nice dark pair of sunglasses, easy to avoid eye contact that way. I notice so many expats who walk with there head pointed to the ground the entire time. More seriously, the situation is slowly improving with police getting back on the streets. Of course, this does nothing to stop the bad attitude many men have toward women.

Most incidences happen in taxis, so its really important to learn which one's to watch out for (for example some say the older taxi drivers in the black taxis are generally better behaved than the younger ones...), and of course when and where it is safe to use them. One has to be really careful when using a taxi after dark. Pepper spray sounds like a good idea, but maintaining situational awareness is most important. If trouble arises, yelling and raising one's voice gets results.


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## tgrear2008

MaidenScotland said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum
> Congratulations on your future nuptials,
> 
> Sexual harassment is not new here, just that some will now accept it happens but on saying that.
> 
> I have lived here for many years and pre revolution thought nothing of walking home at 2am in the morning or using a taxi to go some distance.. I also used to walk to various places for the exercise,
> 
> Now I do not use a taxi to go any further than a couple of miles and only if I know the way..
> I also never walk now as I have no one to accompany me.
> I never carry a handbag, I use a bumbag,
> I do not wear jewellery.
> I do not carry any form of weapon..
> I know women who are scared to go out alone
> I know women who are not scared to go out alone,
> I do not know a single women who has not had some sort of harassment.
> 
> The choice belongs to your wife and she might find she can handle it.. it also helps when you don't speak Arabic so you have no idea what disgusting whispers they are saying to you.
> 
> For me the biggest bugbear is that they always try to get up close and invade my space regardless of how much room there is.. a man passing just loves to brush against you and you might think ohh that is not so bad but when it is constant and daily then it becomes a different matter.
> 
> 
> Sorry I cannot tell you what or not to do only that I can tell you my social life/shopping/leisure life has certainly taken a hammering,


Thanks, 

Even if she can handle it, it might be too much for me to put her in that position. I can only make that judgement when I arrive and ultimately it's up to her. It makes me sad to think I might be away from her longer than I wish. I don't want to put her in danger. She's not very big at all. Plus, if someone put their hands on her, I might end up in trouble. Goddamn savages.


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## tgrear2008

canuck2010 said:


> I'm a guy so this isn't a problem for me, but one suggestion to limit the staring and/or other mild harassment is to invest in a nice dark pair of sunglasses, easy to avoid eye contact that way. I notice so many expats who walk with there head pointed to the ground the entire time. More seriously, the situation is slowly improving with police getting back on the streets. Of course, this does nothing to stop the bad attitude many men have toward women.
> 
> Most incidences happen in taxis, so its really important to learn which one's to watch out for (for example some say the older taxi drivers in the black taxis are generally better behaved than the younger ones...), and of course when and where it is safe to use them. One has to be really careful when using a taxi after dark. Pepper spray sounds like a good idea, but maintaining situational awareness is most important. If trouble arises, yelling and raising one's voice gets results.


Raising the voice sounds about right, that's why I mentioned the security whistle, of course maybe not for me personally, but a woman might benefit. I've read pepper spray is not allowed in Egypt, but I'll wait till I'm on the ground to determine that. Coming from the states, I would sure love my concealed handgun, but that's a pipe dream! haha

About the taxis, can't you call ahead and get a reputable driver? Is the danger in just getting a random taxi on the street?

I'm not too worried about my own safety. As you said, situational awareness is key, and I like to think I have it. I dont plan on carrying a knife, even though I would like to. Maybe a blunt object on the keychain. 

Do you think it is better for women out in El Rehab?


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## Lanason

I live I Rehab and my wife was "followed" by a car with 20 year old learning at her

But she goes in the day on her own to the shops, we do not allow our teenage daughter out on her own but otherwise rehab is very safe.


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## tgrear2008

Lanason said:


> I live I Rehab and my wife was "followed" by a car with 20 year old learning at her
> 
> But she goes in the day on her own to the shops, we do not allow our teenage daughter out on her own but otherwise rehab is very safe.


Awesome, that sounds like the solution. While it's just me, I will live in Maadi. When and if she decides to follow me here until I am finished, we will set up shop in Rehab. 

I hope that works, I dont want to think of being apart any longer than we have to be.


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## expatagogo

I never go outside after dark. NEVER.
I stopped carrying a handbag when a woman (had to be, I was in the women's car on the tram) cleverly helped herself to my mobile phone. I no longer use the the tram, either.
When I have to walk outside during the day, I crowd up behind a group that has children, so it looks like I'm walking with that group.
I don't carry a weapon because I don't know that I could get to it in time if need be.
I never wear jewelry.
If I have to take a taxi off of the street, I always choose a "beard." As terrible as that might seem, in my experience those fellows are content to turn up their audio Qu'ran and drive, and they don't try to chat me up, nor do they drive with one eye in a mirror staring at me. For arranged rides, I have the number of a fellow with a "beard" who I call and deliberately overpay because I'm grateful he gets me there without incident.

Honestly, I'm a fair haired, fair skinned, light eyed, middle aged western woman, and walking out into the street is like walking into hell. That may not be everyone's experience, but it's mine.

I believe "savages" quite astutely describes it.

ETA: If anyone asks (shop keepers, etc.) where I'm from, I lie and say I'm Canadian because it appears nobody wants a visa to Canada.


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## Whitedesert

MaidenScotland said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum
> Congratulations on your future nuptials,
> 
> Sexual harassment is not new here, just that some will now accept it happens but on saying that.
> 
> I have lived here for many years and pre revolution thought nothing of walking home at 2am in the morning or using a taxi to go some distance.. I also used to walk to various places for the exercise,
> 
> Now I do not use a taxi to go any further than a couple of miles and only if I know the way..
> I also never walk now as I have no one to accompany me.
> I never carry a handbag, I use a bumbag,
> I do not wear jewellery.
> I do not carry any form of weapon..
> I know women who are scared to go out alone
> I know women who are not scared to go out alone,
> I do not know a single women who has not had some sort of harassment.
> 
> The choice belongs to your wife and she might find she can handle it.. it also helps when you don't speak Arabic so you have no idea what disgusting whispers they are saying to you.
> 
> For me the biggest bugbear is that they always try to get up close and invade my space regardless of how much room there is.. a man passing just loves to brush against you and you might think ohh that is not so bad but when it is constant and daily then it becomes a different matter.
> 
> 
> Sorry I cannot tell you what or not to do only that I can tell you my social life/shopping/leisure life has certainly taken a hammering,


 In principle I go along with what Maiden says, my wife is one of those who still walks around freely, but in Degla, not elsewhere. I am not even certain myself how wise that is, but then she is the kind of woman who wanted to go to Tharir square during the revolution last year. She did have a nasty experience in Rd 254 when a guy on a bicycle drove past and deliberately grabbed her quite hard on the breast (just outside the Little Swiss restaurant). That was one incident involving some form of violence, and on another occasion a guy in a car kept on following her and made suggestions about why it would be great for her to join him in the car. We have, after some deliberation decided, rightly or wrongly not to allow that to affect our quality of life. However, we are South Africans and comes from a violent and crime ridden country that makes Cairo looks like a kinder garden, and we are certainly desensitised to some extent. I guess we are not quite the right example.


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## aykalam

tgrear2008 said:


> Awesome, that sounds like the solution. While it's just me, I will live in Maadi. When and if she decides to follow me here until I am finished, we will set up shop in Rehab.
> 
> I hope that works, I dont want to think of being apart any longer than we have to be.


Please do not fall into a false sense of security just because Rehab is a so-called "gated community". Anyone can get in, absolutely anyone, and things do happen here too. 

There are areas in Rehab that I never walk around. Going out during the day does not stop the constant harassment and staring, and wearing sunglasses certainly makes no difference (someone mentioned that earlier as a strategy). 

I hear horror stories from forum members that live in other areas of Cairo so I guess it makes little difference where you are. 

Personally, if I knew then what I know now I would have never moved to Egypt.


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## MaidenScotland

Quite simply she will at the very least be subjected to verbal harassment.. 

No where is safe. I lived in the police tower when I was molested in elevator.

All you can do is to try and stay safe and never ever go into a crowd,


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## tgrear2008

MaidenScotland said:


> Quite simply she will at the very least be subjected to verbal harassment..
> 
> No where is safe. I lived in the police tower when I was molested in elevator.
> 
> All you can do is to try and stay safe and never ever go into a crowd,


Has anyone fought back? Decided to get a little stabby? :boxing:

Sorry to all the females that have to go through this on a daily basis. 

I'm starting to regret my decision to teach in Egypt. But, 6 months ago I didn't know I'd be considering marriage thus bringing along my wife.


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## expatagogo

tgrear2008 said:


> Has anyone fought back? Decided to get a little stabby? :boxing:
> 
> Sorry to all the females that have to go through this on a daily basis.
> 
> I'm starting to regret my decision to teach in Egypt. But, 6 months ago I didn't know I'd be considering marriage thus bringing along my wife.


No.

Even taking it to the police would be fruitless because the woman is always, and I mean always, at fault. 

Fighting back might appear appealing, however the thought of spending any length of time in an Egyptian prison doesn't.

Everyone knows it's a problem - a huge problem - but it's the elephant in the room. The end result is men do this because they can.


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## Maireadhoey

I am one of the lucky ones, I have only ever been subject to verbal abuse, nothing more, to which I respond with a laugh, these guys are pathetic. I'm convinced it's because I'm almost 6 ft. and quite athletic, Egyptian men are not particulary tall so a woman towering over them seems to curtail their advances. 

You've mentioned your girlfriend is tiny, so she may be seen as easy prey, at the end of the day these "men" are simply bullies.


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## MaidenScotland

tgrear2008 said:


> Has anyone fought back? Decided to get a little stabby? :boxing:
> 
> Sorry to all the females that have to go through this on a daily basis.
> 
> I'm starting to regret my decision to teach in Egypt. But, 6 months ago I didn't know I'd be considering marriage thus bringing along my wife.




Yes I bloodied his nose he then apologised for what he had done but he legged it as soon as the lifts doors opened.

I think the stats say 97% of all Egyptian women have been subjected to harassment and 98% of all Foreign women get harassment . 

Foreign, women, = **** + blonde = too much ****,


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## MaidenScotland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxYGYl0q4C0&feature=player_embedded#!


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## aykalam

"Almost everyday I hear stories from women being violently attacked by groups on the streets, not just harassed,” says photography student Rana, 24, who was recently mobbed in the middle-class district of Mohandiseen. “It's getting worse," she says.

Breaking the silence: mob sexual assault on Tahrir - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


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## MaidenScotland

We need the authourities to come down hard and fast on this.
We need policewomen!!!


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## Caroline66

Hi everyone,
I have read with interest and to be honest dismay your comments on womens personal safety. I am about to move to Maadi to take up a teaching job and have been looking forward to experiencing life there. 
I think it is really sad that sexual harrassment both verbally and physically goes on but you know what I am not going to have my life dictated to by ignorant losers. I am not nieve in the slightest and I think that walking around with my Egyptian husband for the last year as sheltered me from all that you describe but Im not going to let anyone spoil my life. 
I have stood up for myself on a couple of occasions and men don't like it. Im quite tall and physically strong and I stand my ground and have stared men out. They back down straight away. I have also raised my voice and said "inta Muslim" and htey have backed off again. A man followed me when I went out to get water and I shouted "Bas" as loud as I could with my hand in his face and he ran off!!! 
I think being assertive and standing your ground is also important. Don't get me wrong I won't be venturing out on my own at night as I dont think it is worth the risk but during the day I plan to walk to my school and swim and play tennis at the American Collage. 
I can appreciate it would get rather tedious if its happening every day and I wil lsee how it all goes. 
I have established myself in Hurghada and I can walk around very comfortably on my own there but I guess Cairo is a different ball game. 
What I am dreading though is getting from Hurghada to Maadi with suitcases and bags etc. at the end of August. I am due to start my job on 2nd September so will be heading up to Cairo at the end of August. I have taken the bus from Hurghada to Cairo and that was great, no problems at all. Its getting from Cairo to Maadi which is the worrying thing for me at the moment....
Is anyone else heading up the same time as me?


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## MaidenScotland

Welcome to the forum and to Cairo 


As you pointed out red des resorts and being with a man shelter you. Cairo is a whole different ball game but I wish you freedom to go as you please in maadi 


Maiden

A short weak single old blonde bint lol


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## MaidenScotland

Must point out that bring Muslim doesn't stop harassment. And rightly so. There should be no harassment regardless of religion colour or creed


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## Montananada

*Women in Egypt*



tgrear2008 said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I'll be arriving in Egypt late August with the new batch of teachers. Cheers and hurray for that! haha.
> 
> I've been reading this forum quite a bit, and have picked up some good info. I appreciate it.
> 
> Next year, I might be getting hitched, and then bring my wife with me. That gives me concern. As I read stories and watch debates on Al Jazeera on the epidemic of sexual harassment in Egypt, it certainly gives me doubts to whether it is a good idea to bring her, or just have her wait until I'm finished. I know you guys can't make that decision for me, but, hey ladies...can you comment on the situation on the ground?
> 
> Also, is anyone carrying pepper spray, tasers, batons, kobutans, tactical flashlights, or even safety whistles? I assume the whistle and flashlight is fine to carry, but I doubt it about the other stuff- maybe a keychain kobutan.
> 
> Let me know. Am I worrying too much? I know I should wait and see when I arrive, but on the other hand, I am not a woman. Is my future wife going to be a prisoner in our apt?
> 
> Thanks


Although lots of things have changed since the revolution, and continue to be in flux, I would bring your wife to Egypt. I lived in Maadi for two years, and began taking more taxis at night rather than walking as many friends or friends of friends had purses and backpacks stolen, especially in the vicinity of Medan Victoria (The ACE Club) and Road 206. If your wife has lived in any large American city she should be street smart and able to maneuver in Cairo. It is best to have a couple drivers you can call who are dependable and have your safety in mind. It won't be long before she has friends to do things with and she gets to know her way around. I am single, from the US and was NEVER sexually harassed or touched inappropriately. I did wear dark sunglasses when I first arrived because I found it difficult to not make eye contact on the street after living in rural Montana for 20 years. 

My school was very good at passing on information about scams and other incidences in Cairo, so we knew what was going on. The US Embassy sent alerts after I registered. Once you make friends with some Egyptians, they will also keep you informed. Good luck! Enjoy the sights! Don't stay inside.


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## tgrear2008

Montananada said:


> Although lots of things have changed since the revolution, and continue to be in flux, I would bring your wife to Egypt. I lived in Maadi for two years, and began taking more taxis at night rather than walking as many friends or friends of friends had purses and backpacks stolen, especially in the vicinity of Medan Victoria (The ACE Club) and Road 206. If your wife has lived in any large American city she should be street smart and able to maneuver in Cairo. It is best to have a couple drivers you can call who are dependable and have your safety in mind. It won't be long before she has friends to do things with and she gets to know her way around. I am single, from the US and was NEVER sexually harassed or touched inappropriately. I did wear dark sunglasses when I first arrived because I found it difficult to not make eye contact on the street after living in rural Montana for 20 years.
> 
> My school was very good at passing on information about scams and other incidences in Cairo, so we knew what was going on. The US Embassy sent alerts after I registered. Once you make friends with some Egyptians, they will also keep you informed. Good luck! Enjoy the sights! Don't stay inside.


Well to be honest, she lives in Manila and is originally from the southern region of the Philippines- where the Muslims govern in an autonomous zone. It would be just as dangerous, and probably more so, for me if I wanted to visit her parents. So, she says she knows what to expect. On the other hand, I don't think you can so easily compare SE Asian Muslims with Arab Muslims. From living in those places, she is street wise. 

Your post definitely lifts my spirits about the situation. We have to tough out the long distance thing for several months, and we don't want that to be any longer than it has to be. That being said, safety > emotions.

I wish people could treat others with dignity. But, as my grandmother says "You can wish in one hand..."

Thanks for everyone's opinion in this thread.


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## Montananada

I have visited the Philippines as well. I think she will be okay. By the way, there are LOTS of Philippinas in Maadi.  She could get her nails done at Josie's on Road 206near Medan Degla and chat in Tagalog. bye.


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## anahuda

ASA. im not really worried abt ur wife's safety. egyptian people are very loving and helpful. but ofcourse tell her not to trust anyone even our fellow filipinas. what im worried abt her is her adjustments being here. the language barrier. the food. the environment etc. she will be lonely for sure specially if u have marital problems she will find someone to talk with. just do ur best to be always beside her no matter what coz ur do only one she have here. ill be happy to be her friend. keep in touch.


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## marenostrum

anahuda said:


> ASA. im not really worried abt ur wife's safety. egyptian people are very loving and helpful. but ofcourse tell her not to trust anyone even our fellow filipinas. what im worried abt her is her adjustments being here. the language barrier. the food. the environment etc. she will be lonely for sure specially if u have marital problems she will find someone to talk with. just do ur best to be always beside her no matter what coz ur do only one she have here. ill be happy to be her friend. keep in touch.


Yes i am sure you would be happy to be her friend.....
Who are you kidding.
I suggest you solve your own "marital" problems
Perv


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## tgrear2008

anahuda said:


> ASA. im not really worried abt ur wife's safety. egyptian people are very loving and helpful. but ofcourse tell her not to trust anyone even our fellow filipinas. what im worried abt her is her adjustments being here. the language barrier. the food. the environment etc. she will be lonely for sure specially if u have marital problems she will find someone to talk with. just do ur best to be always beside her no matter what coz ur do only one she have here. ill be happy to be her friend. keep in touch.


That's very kind of you. I appreciate your perspective. I will be aware of her culture shock when she arrives and we settle in to our routine. We will probably become involved with a church community of some type, whether it be catholic or some other denomination. 

I will also experience culture shock, but I reckon by the time she gets here, I'll be running along just fine. 

By the way, I plan to learn basic Tagalog as a surprise before I visit her again. I have 6 months. I started using Rosetta Stone but that only helps so much. It should be easy to find a tutor in Maadi, do you think?


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## MaidenScotland

Have you checked out the visa situation to bring your wife in?


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## tgrear2008

MaidenScotland said:


> Have you checked out the visa situation to bring your wife in?


I haven't. I've looked online, but I can't get very good information. I guess it will be easier to find out once I arrive. I'll ask my school.

She will not have a USA passport. I expect more difficulties because of this.


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## Whitedesert

tgrear2008 said:


> I haven't. I've looked online, but I can't get very good information. I guess it will be easier to find out once I arrive. I'll ask my school.
> 
> She will not have a USA passport. I expect more difficulties because of this.


 That may actually turn out to be your biggest problem...


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## tgrear2008

Whitedesert said:


> That may actually turn out to be your biggest problem...


I can't waste energy worrying about it. It's out of my control. If she can't come here then that just means we will be apart for another school year. But I'll be with her all summers and christmas holidays. It's better than nothing. I'll just pretend I'm deployed with the military. 

Final goal is to get hired at IS Manila, or somewhere she can easily join me.


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## anahuda

tgrear2008 said:


> That's very kind of you. I appreciate your perspective. I will be aware of her culture shock when she arrives and we settle in to our routine. We will probably become involved with a church community of some type, whether it be catholic or some other denomination.
> 
> I will also experience culture shock, but I reckon by the time she gets here, I'll be running along just fine.
> 
> By the way, I plan to learn basic Tagalog as a surprise before I visit her again. I have 6 months. I started using Rosetta Stone but that only helps so much. It should be easy to find a tutor in Maadi, do you think?


aha ur not an egyptian? i have mistakenly understood u.  
tagalog is very easy dont worry. i dnt know any available teaching tagalog here but once i knew someone i will inform u right away.
please mind that egypt are banning filipinas here coz some will have work permit then they dont go back to phils thats why theyre very careful. i thought ur egyptian. if u r she wont find any difficulties getting her visa. goodluck.


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## MaidenScotland

*who would have thought Israeli and Egyptian men had so much in common.*


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## MaidenScotland

*Israel and Egypt have so much in common.*

View attachment 5835


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## expatagogo

AlienEg said:


> In Egypt if you have the cash you can buy RPGs and rocket launchers even


I'd like to think the supply line for those types of weapons has been cut off due to the events in the peninsula. Hard to say, though.


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## CAIRODEMON

expatagogo said:


> I'd like to think the supply line for those types of weapons has been cut off due to the events in the peninsula. Hard to say, though.



No, there are still 10,000 plus unaccounted for from Libya. Good news is that these are very high maintenance weapons and if not in the hands of people who really know what they are doing will soon become inoperable. Possibly not so good news if you are a neighbour of such a person is that the solid state fuel supply is extremely volatile. The future may be much brighter, but only for a very short time!


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