# Driving to Michoacan



## arjay9 (Apr 20, 2014)

I will be living in Michoacan for two months this summer. I'd love to drive down from my home in Wyoming so that I could have use of a car and not depend on friends or public transportation. I go to Mexico frequently and realize the fears that people have about traveling there are usually unwarranted. With that said I don't want to put myself in a foolish situation if I could have avoided it. My planned route is to cross the border at Cd. Ciudad Juarez and continue south thru Chihuahua to Gomez Palacio (Durango), Torreon, (Coahuila), Fresnillo (Zacatecas), Aguas Calientes, and continue thru to Leon (Guanajuato) to Michoacan. I'm a 60 year old ****** who speaks Spanish so communication anywhere is no problem. I know to stick to the cuota where available and drive mainly during daylight hours. My doubts about driving are that I plan to take my 2004 Ford Mustang. Now I know that sounds like a sporty looking vehicle that might be appealing and stand out on the road. Especially with plates from the U.S. On closer inspection the car is pockmarked from a hail storm and not flashy by any means. Would you do such a drive?? I would appreciate any feedback.


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## RPBHaas (Dec 21, 2011)

I have driven the majority of your proposed route in the past. ( starting in Gomez Palacio ending in Michoacan) As long as you drive during daylight you should not have any problems. The past 2 years the Torreon to Michoacan portion of your trip has had its fair share of violent incidents. 

I thing the important question is; Where are you planning to drive in Michoacan? 

I have several business accosiates that drive in an out of the state on a weekly basis and they inform me the tierra caliente portion is still very dangerous. I was there a month and a half ago and saw first hand some of the new vigilante groups. It is an eerie feeling.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

arjay9 said:


> I will be living in Michoacan for two months this summer. I'd love to drive down from my home in Wyoming so that I could have use of a car and not depend on friends or public transportation. I go to Mexico frequently and realize the fears that people have about traveling there are usually unwarranted. With that said I don't want to put myself in a foolish situation if I could have avoided it. My planned route is to cross the border at Cd. Ciudad Juarez and continue south thru Chihuahua to Gomez Palacio (Durango), Torreon, (Coahuila), Fresnillo (Zacatecas), Aguas Calientes, and continue thru to Leon (Guanajuato) to Michoacan. I'm a 60 year old ****** who speaks Spanish so communication anywhere is no problem. I know to stick to the cuota where available and drive mainly during daylight hours. My doubts about driving are that I plan to take my 2004 Ford Mustang. Now I know that sounds like a sporty looking vehicle that might be appealing and stand out on the road. Especially with plates from the U.S. On closer inspection the car is pockmarked from a hail storm and not flashy by any means. Would you do such a drive?? I would appreciate any feedback.


I just did much of that drive. I made a round trip from Guadalajara to Denver and the route we took overlapped your proposed route from between Fresnillo and Ciudad Juarez. It is a nice drive. We didn't follow the usual advice; we drove at night several times and often took the free route for a break from the cuotas. 

I would advise not traveling the free roads at night. It is challenging to see the topes (speed bumps) even during the day. At night, it would be impossible.

The biggest problem we had was getting lost going through Torreón. Going north, it took us an hour of repeatedly stopping to ask directions to find the route north. Coming back we got lost again around Torreón, but figured it out a little faster the second time.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

_I go to Mexico frequently and realize the fears that people have about traveling there are usually unwarranted. _

I think you're making light of a very serioius situation, particularly in the areas you'll be driving through. After all ... there are sections of the nation which are at war.

My recommendation is to follow the advisories issued by the U.S. Department of state, which are about as accurate as there regarding safety/security concerns. Fresnillo isn't an areas I'd want to be passing through, because it's a conflict zone. And beyond driving on major highways to Morelia or Patzcuaro, it's probably not a good thing for someone unexperienced with or unaware of the war in parts of Michoacan to be driving around the state unless accompanied by a "local" from the communites being visited.

Best wishes for an excellent trip!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

arjay9 said:


> I will be living in Michoacan for two months this summer. I'd love to drive down from my home in Wyoming so that I could have use of a car and not depend on friends or public transportation. I go to Mexico frequently and realize the fears that people have about traveling there are usually unwarranted. With that said I don't want to put myself in a foolish situation if I could have avoided it. My planned route is to cross the border at Cd. Ciudad Juarez and continue south thru Chihuahua to Gomez Palacio (Durango), Torreon, (Coahuila), Fresnillo (Zacatecas), Aguas Calientes, and continue thru to Leon (Guanajuato) to Michoacan. I'm a 60 year old ****** who speaks Spanish so communication anywhere is no problem. I know to stick to the cuota where available and drive mainly during daylight hours. My doubts about driving are that I plan to take my 2004 Ford Mustang. Now I know that sounds like a sporty looking vehicle that might be appealing and stand out on the road. Especially with plates from the U.S. On closer inspection the car is pockmarked from a hail storm and not flashy by any means. Would you do such a drive?? I would appreciate any feedback.


Having communicative Spanish is good. I drive around a lot with my wife and would have no problem doing what you are planning to do. The difference is we have a Mexican plated car. I would not worry about what the nay sayers are telling you as they mostly don´t live here or drive around on the highways in Mexico. There are literally hundreds of thousands of vehicles on the main highway routes in Mexico weekly and almost no incidences are reported. Have a good trip. Alan


http://aplicaciones4.sct.gob.mx/sibuac_internet/ControllerUI?action=cmdEscogeRuta


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## mexhapati (Nov 29, 2012)

i drive through michoacan quite a bit...from morelia to zihuatanejo mostly...

my experience over the years has taught me a few things but the most important one is being inconspicous... driving a pickup truck, wearing jeans, shirt and cowboy hat and people barely even SEE you... driving a brand new high cost high visibility vehicle, wearing a lot of jewelry etc etc or anything that makes you stand out might heighten risk

don't drive at night and other common sense rules of thumb are always good


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The OP hasn't yet said where he/she will be living or driving through/to when in Michoacan, though the driving route to Michoacan has been identified and does take the OP through territory for which there are concerns. Anyone who may lightly dismiss the terrorist and other war activities in and around Fresnillo, Zacatecas, as just one example ... does so foolishly. Levels of risk vary by someone's behavior and style of travel. As for Michoacan, RPBHass asked probably the most important question in response #2, above. The fighting is parts of Mexico is fluid, with locations and incidents unpredictable much of the time. Keeping abreast of current, very current events is important when moving about areas in which we're unfamiliar. Anyone who might give a blanket, general advice in the vein of "come on down, all is well" does so as a disservice to people asking serious questions about an important issue.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

This past season 2 Canadian RV'rs had their towed vehicles stolen in Michoacán. This was not on a toll road but in broad daylight. They were stopped and told at gun point to disconnect the toad from the MH. One was a flashy Jeep but the other was not. These were not cartel related but just common creepy criminals. No one was hurt but the results are a bureaucratic nightmare. All the required paperwork was in the vehicles. Here is the kicker. If you vehicle is stolen and not recovered Aduana considers it as" sold in Mexico". You are responsible for the IVA on the vehicle as well as import taxes. Most insurance companies will not pay until those taxes are paid. So do not take this trip lightly. Be safe!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

45 People Were Shot In Chicago Over The Weekend : The Two-Way : NPR


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

What strikes me about this thread is the absence of any sense of the probability of any of these issues. This is not uncommon. There is generally little attention paid to the probability of various threats. A classic example is the common fear of flying, or now, the fear of a highjacked airplane. Many people harbor these concerns and TSA inconveniences everyone trying to prevent them, even though they only happen to a few hundred people once a year or so. In the meantime, 40,000 people in the US die in traffic accidents every year but hardly anyone is afraid to ride in a car. In addition, these discussions rarely factor in the rate of occurrence per capita or per mile or whatever is appropriate.

I don't know how the hazards of driving in Mexico stack up against all the other hazards of getting out of bed every morning. But until someone demonstrates that driving in Zacatecas at night is more dangerous than a lot of other things I do, I will continue to risk it if I happen to need to pass through Zacatecas and it happens to be after dark.

I am pretty sure I am going to die sometime. I prefer to enjoy life while I am here, and not spend my time worrying about all of the unlikely risks out there. In my life, those dangers are probably outweighed by many other of my behaviors, like crossing streets in Guadalajara traffic, or hiking alone in the mountains, or maybe the motorcycles I rode for 50 years.


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## mexhapati (Nov 29, 2012)

tundra i agree, for those of us that live and work here on a daily basis, life goes on as usual....we cannot just one day decide not to go to zacatecas or michoacan or guerrero any more..

i wonder if countries such as norway or germany place travel advisories for THEIR citizens wanting to visit the USA? ....detroit or chicago? they are war zones! given the choice i would rather be in acapulco... 

being the cynic that i am i suspect it is really just the gov't covering their butts in case something happens they can always say i told you so?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

mexhapati said:


> tundra i agree, for those of us that live and work here on a daily basis, life goes on as usual....we cannot just one day decide not to go to zacatecas or michoacan or guerrero any more..
> 
> i wonder if countries such as norway or germany place travel advisories for THEIR citizens wanting to visit the USA? ....detroit or chicago? they are war zones! given the choice i would rather be in acapulco...
> 
> being the cynic that i am i suspect it is really just the gov't covering their butts in case something happens they can always say i told you so?


The question wasn't from or about someone who lives/works in Mexico and who may, for better or worse, be informed (or not) about not only their community but others. It's a question from/about a tourist who posted questions because of unfamiliarity with current events. That's a fact so often forgotten by some people posting here who respond to questions not, it seems to me, with the questioner in mind, but with themselves as the focus. 

I don't see where anyone has advised the OP not to visit Mexico. A broad-range of advice has been offered and the OP hasn't returned to clarify or further respond. 

The level of ignorance/indifference about real and unimagined security risks by some people offering advice on this forum no longer surprises me. This is not a particularly good forum for travel advice, anyway. Others exist and people seeking advice should be cross-posting to several travel forums. 

As for the travel warning(s) published by the U.S. Department of State: they're based on verifiable facts, not fiction, and they're very specific. The OP might want to read them as they pertain to the planned route or where the OP will be staying/visiting in the war-torn state of Michoacan. Other countries have issued similar, but less specific warnings and they are also posted on the www. 

The 'head in the sand' faction, when it has little to offer in a discussion, frequently posts links to articles about crime in the USA or elsewhere (oftentimes done in a way which violate the rules around here), to take a discussion off topic. The same folks aren't interested enough in posting a discussion/questions to the USA forum on that subject, however, because they'd then have to engage in a discussion of the topic and how so much of the violence is related to Mexico or actions originating in Mexico (and supported by drug addicts in the USA). As for the question about what foreign governments (foreign to the USA) do in the way of travel warnings for countries other than their own, such as about travel in the USA: many do advise their citizens about travel in the USA. Here's just one example: 16 American cities foreign governments warn their citizens about 

Intelligent travelers, the world-over, try to educate themselves and not stick their heads in the sand, and the advisories, when blended into other sources of travel and current events information, allow us to travel with less stress and more enjoyment.


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## JoanneR2 (Apr 18, 2012)

Longford said:


> The question wasn't from or about someone who lives/works in Mexico and who may, for better or worse, be informed (or not) about not only their community but others. It's a question from/about a tourist who posted questions because of unfamiliarity with current events. That's a fact so often forgotten by some people posting here who respond to questions not, it seems to me, with the questioner in mind, but with themselves as the focus. I don't see where anyone has advised the OP not to visit Mexico. A broad-range of advice has been offered and the OP hasn't returned to clarify or further respond. The level of ignorance/indifference about real and unimagined security risks by some people offering advice on this forum no longer surprises me. This is not a particularly good forum for travel advice, anyway. Others exist and people seeking advice should be cross-posting to several travel forums. As for the travel warning(s) published by the U.S. Department of State: they're based on verifiable facts, not fiction, and they're very specific. The OP might want to read them as they pertain to the planned route or where the OP will be staying/visiting in the war-torn state of Michoacan. Other countries have issued similar, but less specific warnings and they are also posted on the www. The 'head in the sand' faction, when it has little to offer in a discussion, frequently posts links to articles about crime in the USA or elsewhere (oftentimes done in a way which violate the rules around here), to take a discussion off topic. The same folks aren't interested enough in posting a discussion/questions to the USA forum on that subject, however, because they'd then have to engage in a discussion of the topic and how so much of the violence is related to Mexico or actions originating in Mexico (and supported by drug addicts in the USA). As for the question about what foreign governments (foreign to the USA) do in the way of travel warnings for countries other than their own, such as about travel in the USA: many do advise their citizens about travel in the USA. Here's just one example: 16 American cities foreign governments warn their citizens about Intelligent travelers, the world-over, try to educate themselves and not stick their heads in the sand, and the advisories, when blended into other sources of travel and current events information, allow us to travel with less stress and more enjoyment.


But surely we can offer our own opinions as to how, those of us who live here, view the risks. Many people living outside of Mexico are informed of the dangers, real or otherwise, of living here, through the media and can be deterred or afraid of traveling as a result. I would think that we try to provide a more balanced view, rather than a "head in the sand" perspective. Comparisons with other countries are not necessarily invalid. I have relatives and friends who have been mugged or had their houses robbed in Spain, England and Italy but most people wouldn't consider these places dangerous to visit. I, however, have been fortunate to have had no problems living and working in Mexico City. This doesn't make DF a safe place to live or others frightening but it does help to highlight the need to take sensible precautions wherever you are without living in constant fear...


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

JoanneR2 said:


> But surely we can offer our own opinions as to how, those of us who live here, view the risks. Many people living outside of Mexico are informed of the dangers, real or otherwise, of living here, through the media and can be deterred or afraid of traveling as a result. I would think that we try to provide a more balanced view, rather than a "head in the sand" perspective. Comparisons with other countries are not necessarily invalid. I have relatives and friends who have been mugged or had their houses robbed in Spain, England and Italy but most people wouldn't consider these places dangerous to visit. I, however, have been fortunate to have had no problems living and working in Mexico City. This doesn't make DF a safe place to live or others frightening but it does help to highlight the need to take sensible precautions wherever you are without living in constant fear...


People who have experiences here, whether good or bad, are more apt. to be feeling the vibe here more than tourists or critics from afar who´s only info. comes from Googling or reading other people´s comments on Expat sites. IMO

Don´t worry about inexperienced advise from afar.

The media does make a living off of printing sensationalistic stories not dull, routine everyday living experiences we have here year in and year out. Driving the highways is one of them.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> ..... I don't know how the hazards of driving in Mexico stack up against all the other hazards of getting out of bed every morning. But until someone demonstrates that driving in Zacatecas at night is more dangerous than a lot of other things I do, I will continue to risk it if I happen to need to pass through Zacatecas and it happens to be after dark.


Actually when I spent every Fri. after work to Mon. morning in Mexicali in 2005 to early 2008 while still working in SD it was in the middle of one of the most violent narco wars Mexico had seen until the Federal Pólice moved in in 2006 when it escalated for a summer then died down. 

Driving around I saw many incidences of gunfire or heard it from around the corner, everyone did that was used to driving all over the city then. It stated in 2003 but peaked in 2006 and many TJ pólice and state Secretaries and one ex state Secretary were assasinated. 13 in TJ out of 18 top Pólice were killed in 2006. 

One ex Secretay of state was killed while I was a few blocks away picking up a friend by 2 punks the people wrestled to the ground at a Pemex station in Mexicali. I drove by less than 10 minutes later.

I used to see pickup trucks and cars in the middle of the street with drugs, lots of them, on the hood and roof and Federal Pólice surrounding the vehicle and the Army surrounding the block with AK 47s. This was before bullet proof body armor was common in the military and local Pólice but local Pólice had many uzis and AK47s.

I saw Pólice and Army shooting into houses before the Army could control traffic close by.

When with friends and a convoy of Federal Pólice drove by with black Suburbans, lights and sirens going they used to say, "I wonder if that is the Federal Pólice or narcos in their made to look like Federal Pólice convoy going to a gunfight?" I saw these convoys almost every day and sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, sometimes lights and sirens going, sometimes not.

I used to like to walk over the the vendor carts in front of the University a few blocks away on Sat. night and eat and hang out. The young girls and guys from the dorms at the U would be there late at night eating and chatting while watching the action on the main blvd. unafraid because if they were I sure didn´t see the ones that were staying inside.

Anyone driving around for sometime there would eventually see an action, however did it really make anyone, a few I presume, stop doing what they have been doing all along? The answer is no it wouldn´t. Did any innocent bystanders get shot? None that I heard about. Did any US citizens get killed? Yes, 1 guy in TJ changing a flat tire that was watching a gunfight between 2 SUVs and decided to stand there talking on his cell phone.

The main question I had was why did Calderón wait until 2006 to sent the Federal Pólice there and mobilize the huge army base´s Military? Up until then the Military was out of sight.

Another thing was, was I afraid? No. Why? Because nobody was.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Correction:

I guess Calderón arranged to send the Federal Pólice in 2006 as soon as he was elected but didn´t take office until Dec. 1st 2006. Fox was the Pres. that summer. It must have been that winter they arrived in a large forcé and it lasted until the fall or winter of 2007. Why didn´t Fox do something earlier?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Do you have an agenda? Old news seems to fascinate you.
We have been resident in Mexico since 2001 and have no scars, sleep well at night with the windows open and drive or walk wherever we want.
True, things are different in some border areas and in Chicago, but they do not affect 99.999% of us, so why keep re-hashing and stirring the pot?
Now; we were talking about current events in Michoacan; not elsewhere, I think.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Do you have an agenda? Old news seems to fascinate you.
> We have been resident in Mexico since 2001 and have no scars, sleep well at night with the windows open and drive or walk wherever we want.
> True, things are different in some border areas and in Chicago, but they do not affect 99.999% of us, so why keep re-hashing and stirring the pot?
> Now; we were talking about current events in Michoacan; not elsewhere, I think.


I am fanscinated with old prior experiences and reminisce vividly at times; getting old I guess. Point was the same as you noted. Everyone survived and no one stayed home and it did pass.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

arjay9 said:


> I go to Mexico frequently and realize the fears that people have about traveling there are usually unwarranted. With that said I don't want to put myself in a foolish situation if I could have avoided it. My planned route is ........... Would you do such a drive?? I would appreciate any feedback.


I drive, from the Denver area, down into the general destination you are considering 'a lot'. I have another route that you might consider. While it is roughly the same distance and time, I find it 'better' for me as it keeps me in the US longer (free roads, more familiar surroundings, etc). AND it will hold down the Mexican toll road expenses without degrading the road conditions one must travel once in Mexico.

Basically I drive to Eagle Pass Tx and cross at Piedras Negras. That border crossing (visa and car permits) is very easy to find and is a little south of the border. One takes Highway 57, which is very good 2-lane roa, from the border all the way to Saltillo free of tolls. From Saltillo south, one stays on 57D which will be tolls off and on... always 4-lane.... to more-or-less Queretaro depending on where in Michoacan one is going. 

This Mexican route, especially from Saltillo to Queretaro, is heavily traveled and is considered as safe as any. From Eagle Pass to Saltillo is less heavily traveled but is none-the-less not considered by most to be of concern. I and others I know take it often, without incident.

If you need any further specific info about the route, just ask.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Who is going thru Chicago? This is about Mexico, no?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

It's kinda of like taking medicine, what works for one person does not necessarily work for another. You just have to know the danger spots and make your own decisions. Good luck with the drive. Be safe, rather than sorry.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Who is going thru Chicago? This is about Mexico, no?


If you read the whole thread and have been reading other threads on the subject of saftey our poster from the Windy City likes to diminish Mexico to a country of safe areas and áreas where, quote: " the terrorist and other war activities in and around .... ", yet has never been driving anywhere on the highways in Mexico and has considered those that have and dismiss his view as "Having our head in the sand". 

Chicago has a 500 per 100,000 homicide rate which is 10X the homicide rate in the "war zones" as he describes them here in Mexico. Acapulco being 112 per 100,000, the exception. 

Ranking: 9 de las 50 ciudades más violentas están en México - gobierno - ADNPolÃ*tico.com


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> If you read the whole thread and have been reading other threads on the subject of saftey our poster from the Windy City likes to diminish Mexico to a country of safe areas and áreas where, quote: " the terrorist and other war activities in and around .... ", yet has never been driving anywhere on the highways in Mexico and has considered those that have and dismiss his view as "Having our head in the sand".
> 
> Chicago has a 500 per 100,000 homicide rate which is 10X the homicide rate in the "war zones" as he describes them here in Mexico. Acapulco being 112 per 100,000, the exception.
> 
> Ranking: 9 de las 50 ciudades más violentas están en México - gobierno - ADNPolÃ*tico.com


Correction. Chigago, 500 homicides in 2013 or 43 per 100,000 down from 50 in 2012 and Mexico´s most violent cities statistic is [54 top, [except Acapulco] to 32 per 100,000.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I think the OP needs to realize that those who tell him to "Come On Down!" mostly have lived in Mexico for quite some time; many have Mexican wives, and all have MUCHO experience in driving Mexico. They all take lots of precautions that they don't spell out here and not telling him all these details is doing a Major Disservice to him, leading him to believe that all is well in Mexico.(You don't find them posting on threads where people who actually live in "war zones" are posting). They somehow feel that he will be just as cautious as they are, have just as much experience traveling Mexico as they do, and thus, would not go where they wouldn't go, not stop where they would not stop, etc., etc., etc. I think he should get the picture. If not, Good Luck. BTW, having a Mexican wife is very helpful.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

coondawg: In some ****** communities, especially those on the west coast, residents hesitate to post anything negative about their community. They worry about property values and keep all the "bad stuff" secret!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Bobbyb: I believe that also applies in Central Mexico. They will ignore everything just to try to encourage new people to "come on down!"


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Bobbyb: I believe that also applies in Central Mexico. They will ignore everything just to try to encourage new people to "come on down!"


I don't own any property in Mexico. When I encourage people to move here, it's because I like the life I've made for myself in Mexico. That doesn't mean that I see my adopted country through rose-tinted glasses.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

A person with common sense, and a desire to find a good life can find it in Mexico. Being aware of your environment is a must, but that has always been important to me. You can't live in a place where you will worry all the time about your safety. Life is too short. There are certainly easy ways to maximize you travel plans for safety, as well as your living plans. Mexico is not for everyone, but many of us can and do enjoy a good life here.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

We watch TV news from the USA and, after more than a decade in Mexico, the USA seems frightening to us with all the random crime and killings in public places, schools, etc.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Just yesterday, we drove through Michoacan to get from the Arco Norte as it ends at Atlocmuldo because we had no alternative returning from Chiapas ro Lake Chapala, Then we drove the autopiata toward Guadalajara to the turnoff at Ocotitlan to head off into Chapala. No problems along this route although those of you blessed with memory cells will remember that there have been some notorious killigs along this freeway. On the otherhand, we, having lived here at Lake Chapala since 2001, no longer take the drive sto Pátzcuaro and Zihuatenejo we used to take through the Michoacan outback because we are not totally stupid and do not wish to risk our lives for unnecessary beach time or rides in the Woods available in other places. Michoacan as a place to visit is vastly overrated anyway so why risk goingt to a war zone offerring no memorable adventures when there are numerous places abutting Michoacan that are far more interesting culturally and topograhically suchas:
Puebla State
Jalisco
Oaxaca State
Mexico State
San Luis Potosí State 
You name it

I wouldn´t touch the Michoacan unciilized hellhole with a ten foot pole these days..


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> We watch TV news from the USA and, after more than a decade in Mexico, the USA seems frightening to us with all the random crime and killings in public places, schools, etc.


Oop's, sorry, I thought you were talking about Michoacan.  Not sure what this has to do with Driving to Michoacan. Maybe you meant this for the US Threads?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Hound Dog, it almost sounds like ya got a burr in yer saddle. But it does seem to me that the whole State of Michoacan is like a cat on a hot tin roof, don't ya think? Any how, just wanted to say that reading your posts makes me feel like a tick on a fat dog.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

*Driving in Mexico (including Michoacan)*

We've just returned from our 6 month winter in Zihuatanejo, Guerrero, having driven 13,000 km in total, of which approximately 7000 km was in Mexico.
In Michoacan, in late Oct/13, we drove the free (back) roads from Zamora to Uruapan at night. Next day, in daylight, we took the cuota from Uruapan down to the coast, and on to Zihuatanejo.
The only visible conflict areas were:
--- entering and exiting the town of Cheran, where roadblocks were manned by citizens' militia. We were simply waved through.
---all the toll booths on the cuota had been taken over by citizen groups. Again, we were just waved through, saving us a few hundred pesos in tolls. Viva la revolucion!

In April/14 we repeated most of that same drive, in daylight. Unfortunately, the toll booths were operating as usual. Once more, the only town with any roadblocks was Cheran, but this time they were manned by Policia Municipal, in accordance with the truce reached between the authorities and the citizen militias. They just waved us through.

We had no problems of any kind during our 5 1/2 months of driving in Mexico.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Are you implying that anyone can go where you did without a problem and that area is completely safe for tourists?


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

coondawg said:


> Are you implying that anyone can go where you did without a problem and that area is completely safe for tourists?


Think they got lucky. Motorcycle guy is still missing I believe and 2 car jackings on the coast. Back roads at night anywhere in Mexico is the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

coondawg said:


> Hound Dog, it almost sounds like ya got a burr in yer saddle. But it does seem to me that the whole State of Michoacan is like a cat on a hot tin roof, don't ya think? Any how, just wanted to say that reading your posts makes me feel like a tick on a fat dog.


Well, thank you cd, I think. We drive many remote roads all over West Central and Southern Mexico and visit many beach áreas from time to time and, at one time liked to drive from Ajijic on Lake Chapala to the Zihuantanejo área down the road from Uruapan to Highway 200 where one can head south to Zihuantanejo or north to Lazaro Cardenas but there are lots of other just as easily accessable beach áreas from Lake Chapala and San Cristobal de Las Casas reached within a similar time frame through tierra caliente territory and just as nice or nicer so why drive innocently through ugly disputed lands where sponteneous violence among cartel and local vigilante groups can spring up at any time and local law enforcement is a local joke.

At Lake Chapala we can just as easily drive to the Jalisco or Nayarit coasts or, when in Chiapas, we can just as easily drive to the Chiapas or Oaxaca coasts on the Pacific ot the Gulf or Caribbean coasts of the Yucatán. Driving to the coast through Michoacan to get to the Guerrero Coast makes no sense these days. The beaches there were never that great anyway and certainly never exceptional.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coondawg View Post
Are you implying that anyone can go where you did without a problem and that area is completely safe for tourists?



sparks said:


> Think they got lucky. Motorcycle guy is still missing I believe and 2 car jackings on the coast. Back roads at night anywhere in Mexico is the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile


I'm not implying anything, or suggesting anyone go anywhere - just stating facts.
We're just as concerned about safety issues in Mexico as any other visitors. The previous two years, we decided to fly down instead of driving, due to what seemed like one too many stories of carjackings, shoot-outs, etc. But we missed having our vehicle down in Zihua, and had to admit that we'd driven many thousands of kilometers in Mexico over the years without problem, so we drove down once again - and once more without mishap.
Perhaps "back roads" was a tad misleading. Between the Guadalajara-Mexico City cuota and Uruapan, we drove Highway 37, a fairly busy highway even at night, which passes through a number of large towns, (Purepero, Carapan, Cheran, Paracho, etc.). We had intended to return northbound along the coastal route 200 through Michoacan, (which we've taken both ways a number of times in the past), but decided against it this time due to the car-jacking along that road just days earlier - and the fact that most of that route is pretty isolated, with only a few small communities along the 150 miles of Michoacan coast.
And yes, all the travel books advise against driving at night. Usually, I try to avoid night driving anywhere, Canada or Mexico. However, if it becomes necessary, it's really no big deal if one is aware of what to watch for, and drives carefully.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

HolyMole said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by coondawg View Post
> Are you implying that anyone can go where you did without a problem and that area is completely safe for tourists?
> 
> ...


Well, HM, as we both know, everything in life is a crapshoot including driving anyplace I´ve ever lived or visited. Most of us posting or reading here are old enough to have had at least some life-threatening experiences over the decades and, since I traveled extensively as a Young man in some very hairy places around the world and lived in some other unsettled places into middle age and even today, , I have my share of these events. 

One of my favorite recollections:

As to whether a place or a venture down a particular road is safe or not; I recall several years as a commercial bank manager in Downtown Oakland, California across the bay from San Francisco and, while Oakland was a city with, shall we say, a bad reputation for violent crime, it was a fine place to work and a fecund market for a commecial banker because it was an industrial city filled with many potential clients seeking commercial loans. I had fun working there and prospered in my duties for a number of years and really liked Oakland´s bad reputation as that reputation kept my bosses in San Francisco at bay since they never felt safe coming there to bug me.

Then, one random day as I sat at my desk, no doubt, f***ing off or planning my next meal with a client on the bank´s dime, I Heard this commotion on the platform floor with some guy screaching something like , "Give me your money or I´ll blow your head off." at a teller and I immediately felt the need to flee the premise so leapt from my seat and headed for the nearest back door exit. Then, as I neared the exit, this thug with a sawed-off shotgun shouted, "On the floor, fatboy with hands behind your back or I´ll kill you now." Well, I got the message and was immediately on the floor and that guy could have killed me and everyone else in the bank at that time and there would have been nothing that I or anyone else, including the Oakland PD, could have done about it. 

Don´t get the idea that, just because you have drivien that road of your choice before or any number of times successfully without incident, there is not a snake in the grass awaiting your return. Dawg travels lots of back roads in primitive áreas and has done so in many parts of Michoacan but, for now,, you can have Michoacan and, although I must cross the state on occasion to get to Chiapas from the lake, you won´t see me hanging out there one minute longer than necessary and I´ll only be observed on the Guadalajara- Mexico City autopista driving at a high speed. looking for the Edomex border


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