# New building in Spain



## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Now maybe, actually highly likely, I don't have a deep understanding of economics but some things seem to be rather obvious.
In San juan de los terros near Mojacar there is a new massive housing estate which is unfinished, basically work stopped plus mostly empty. Throughout the town along the beach front places are being offered for sale. In other words there is a glut of property on the market. Ok I know this applies everywhere so it is obvious.
What isn't obvious is why they have started yet another massive estate right on the beach (thought that had been banned) at the other end of town and who or what is stupid enough to fund it. I know that The Spanish economy was / is built around tourism and property but surely they must have realised it ain't working and won't for a few years.
Access to the town and bars is wrecked and speaking to Spanish friends who run bars in the area they tell me that they are going out of business.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Happyexpat said:


> Now maybe, actually highly likely, I don't have a deep understanding of economics but some things seem to be rather obvious.
> In San juan de los terros near Mojacar there is a new massive housing estate which is unfinished, basically work stopped plus mostly empty. Throughout the town along the beach front places are being offered for sale. In other words there is a glut of property on the market. Ok I know this applies everywhere so it is obvious.
> What isn't obvious is why they have started yet another massive estate right on the beach (thought that had been banned) at the other end of town and who or what is stupid enough to fund it. I know that The Spanish economy was / is built around tourism and property but surely they must have realised it ain't working and won't for a few years.
> Access to the town and bars is wrecked and speaking to Spanish friends who run bars in the area they tell me that they are going out of business.



Mind boggling isnt it! 

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The problem the market economy is that supply has very little to do with demand (despite what classical economists tell you) and even less to do with need. Someone is capitalising on today's cheap labour costs, in the expectation that at some future point their investment will return more than they put in.

Meanwhile thousands of houses stand empty and thousands of families can't afford their own home.

There has to be a better way!


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Hmmmmm. With the size of this construction it has to be a large Co or the stupid banks again. You would think that a lesson would have been learnt but obviously not. With everything else that is happening in world I think its time to move to another planet!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I dont understand why they dont just buy up and finish off the things that are already half built???

Jo xxx


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## mikeinmalaga (May 17, 2010)

Is it worth a visit to the local Ayuntamienta, with an election on May 22, and ask to speak to Urbanista Department about it? 
Curiosity is a great driver, although I am told it killed off a few cats


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mikeinmalaga said:


> Is it worth a visit to the local Ayuntamienta, with an election on May 22, and ask to speak to Urbanista Department about it?
> Curiosity is a great driver, although I am told it killed off a few cats


What will you say? What will you hope to achieve??

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

jojo said:


> What will you say? What will you hope to achieve??
> 
> Jo xxx


I’m beginning to think Jo that you are in reality Spanish 

By asking questions you find out if your observations are valid, where the funding is coming from, what others think. If you see injustice you can raise it with local or European politicians. You can make a difference 

I’d agree that as a foreigner you can only really get involved if it is for example European funding or if you have spanish friends who would welcome your input.

Here in Asturias we have one of Franco’s holiday camps. It occupies a beautiful peninsula but is being allowed to go to ruin. It is believed the local rich want it to deteriorate until they can acquire it as condemned for next to nothing and build a hotel complex.

If it was reopened it would create 100+ jobs and maintain the beauty. We have 800+ unemployedv in a small rural area where my village is the capital 

My neighbour Victor has joined a new political party and they are raising hell. As a foreigner I can only distribute leaflets and add to protest numbers but at least I feel I’m doing something. 

I guess democracy only works if you participate


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Happyexpat said:


> Now maybe, actually highly likely, I don't have a deep understanding of economics but some things seem to be rather obvious.
> In San juan de los terros near Mojacar there is a new massive housing estate which is unfinished, basically work stopped plus mostly empty. Throughout the town along the beach front places are being offered for sale. In other words there is a glut of property on the market. Ok I know this applies everywhere so it is obvious.
> What isn't obvious is why they have started yet another massive estate right on the beach (thought that had been banned) at the other end of town and who or what is stupid enough to fund it. I know that The Spanish economy was / is built around tourism and property but surely they must have realised it ain't working and won't for a few years.
> Access to the town and bars is wrecked and speaking to Spanish friends who run bars in the area they tell me that they are going out of business.


I drove through there on monday of last week & fell about when I saw that they were building again. I was also going to stop for breakfast, where I always ate when working down there , in the Bar Aquarius. It was closed down ! It was one of the better places & was always full of spanish in the mornings. 
I can't get my head around this Ley de la Costas either. In Águilas , next to where the rambla enters the beach area they are constructing a block of 13 apartments which are within 50m of the high tide line , & these are VPO's !!! ( Vivienda Protección official ) Which means that the local council are involved. It beggars belief.
I used to have bookmarked, an official spanish site showing the areas that had been surveyed & all property in them that came under the Ley de la costas. Ubnfortunately I appear to have deleted it but from memory they'd done everything from the French border down the coast & in to Valencia. Also the island of Majorca. It also showed the protected areas which extend up to 500m from the high water mark.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Thing is, they can probably get away with building these apartments/estates/urbanisations with little trouble. It is the end purchaser that has the problems. I do not doubt there are folk on this site who know of someone whose house has been torn down because it is within a certain distance of the beach. 
I appreciate that the thing we love the most, the campo, the beaches are the one thing that if this sort of development were if left unchecked would disappear under acres of concrete and buildings. Trouble is, the Government don't seem to do anything to the developers, but rather they do everything to the man at the end of the line, the poor schmuck that thinks he has a legal house, has checked everything down to how many times the word, 'in so much' appears in his contract. But who discovers because someone in their nice little house in Madrid or Valencia or Barcelona has decided to change the law and make their once legal house the devil incarnate and decidedly illegal and therefore tear downable. 
Take my case, I have a legal / registered house, (in the Campo I grant you), without mains electricity, mains water, mains sewage and without an asphalt road leading to it. I don't particularly want any of these, to my mind they are more hassle than they are worth. But because Barcalona have taken millions in grants from the EU to provide all legal houses with the above services but spent the money on other things they introduced a new law dictating I need apply for and be granted another piece of paper (Cedula d'Habilitilidad) and because if I get one they have to provide me with the above services you can guess what the outcome of any application will be. Without a Cedula I cannot sell or leave my home to my kids, I cannot rent it out, I cannot even run a business ie, bed and breakfast from it. 
A friend of mine has a house down by the river, the house is over 50 years old, but the powers that be have declared it an illegal build, despite it having all the necessary papers. She is now faced with constant fines and the threat of it being bulldozed because someone in an office somewhere has decided no house should stand within 100 metres of the river bank. Which by the way puts about 10% of the village in peril.
If it was to protect the people from floods, I could understand it, but it isnt, they want the area to become one great big Parc Natural, which depending upons one point of view is either a brilliant idea or simply just not workable. By all means stop any new builds, but for the love of pete leave the houses that have been there 50 + years. Added to this the Rural Agents are chasing fishermen off the banks, off the river and fining them left right and centre even when they have all the necessary permissions and what do you have. No fishing tourism that's what, which means this area is going fast down the toilet with regards a nice little earner thank you very much.


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

It is a strange country in terms of rules, law and applying them, i have to add that we love it though.
We also live in the Campo having knowingly bought an illegal 'small finca'. The land title is fully legal. We have been here nine years and 8 years ago they connected us to the electric grid. Seven years ago Telefoncia installed the phone. The local water company still won't connect us to the pipe which 30 mtrs from our home. 

The local council 2 years ago properly surfaced our access road and put white lines on it showing our entrance. 1 year ago they installed street lights on our road. There are probably only 9 properties on the road which is 2km long of which at least 7 are old illegal fincas like ours. One of them, illegal, is owned by a Spanish solicitor who told us years ago just to sit tight, not worry about it and it would all come right slowly, appears he was right!

6 months ago we got a letter from the council giving us a fully registered new address and they put our house number on the wall. We are told that they have legalised the property by default but we are still waiting to see what happens. A few days ago we received notification from the Suma of an impending 'rates' bill for this year.

Out here it really is a case of hanging on in there, enjoying the lifestyle and going with the flow.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Happyexpat said:


> It is a strange country in terms of rules, law and applying them, i have to add that we love it though.
> We also live in the Campo having knowingly bought an illegal 'small finca'. The land title is fully legal. We have been here nine years and 8 years ago they connected us to the electric grid. Seven years ago Telefoncia installed the phone. The local water company still won't connect us to the pipe which 30 mtrs from our home.
> 
> The local council 2 years ago properly surfaced our access road and put white lines on it showing our entrance. 1 year ago they installed street lights on our road. There are probably only 9 properties on the road which is 2km long of which at least 7 are old illegal fincas like ours. One of them, illegal, is owned by a Spanish solicitor who told us years ago just to sit tight, not worry about it and it would all come right slowly, appears he was right!
> ...


You would not believe we are in the same country, oh sorry we're not, I am in Catalunya (and I had best not forget it either).

My local council bless them, moved the bins from the end of my road, because they said I had no right to them, (bear in mind I am legal in the eyes of Tarragona, or was up until this Cedula nonsense started). They also re-tarmac'd the road up to the top of the hill but neglected to carry it on to the end of my driveway, around 1/4 mile. 
I have no street lights, no tarmac (as I have said), no water, no electric, no sewage, I am refused permission to erect a wind turbine, why? Because I asked that's why and they wish to make my life as difficult as they possibly can. The police claim they cannot find me whenever I call even though I have given them my GPS co-ordinates, strangely enough though the local ne'er do wells seem to have no trouble. 
I ask nothing of the local council, yet they take money from my bank account in taxes every year as do Tarragona, yet when I ask them how they can take money for a house which they say is illegal I am told 'because'.

This year in our local elections we have a choice between the local communist party, who have gone on record as hating foreigners and the incumbent mayor who also hates foreigners. Good here isn't it.


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Actually, just to rub salt into the wound, we get post to our door at least twice per week, often almost daily. Mind you UPS, even though they are only 5km away can never find us nor can shop delivery drivers so some things appear to be universal.
We know your area quite well having spent for at least 10 years, many long holidays in Roses and Salou with our Goldwing motorcycle. We wanted to move to Roses but it proved far to expensive when we tried nine years ago so ended up in Alicante, not that I am complaining.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Happyexpat said:


> Actually, just to rub salt into the wound, we get post to our door at least twice per week, often almost daily. Mind you UPS, even though they are only 5km away can never find us nor can shop delivery drivers so some things appear to be universal.
> We know your area quite well having spent for at least 10 years, many long holidays in Roses and Salou with our Goldwing motorcycle. We wanted to move to Roses but it proved far to expensive when we tried nine years ago so ended up in Alicante, not that I am complaining.


We originally tried to buy in Novelda (not far from you) but the Estate Agent, may she rot in jail, ran off with our and many other peoples deposits so we had to rethink, save up and came up here instead. Whilst the area is wonderful, the problems I and many others experience here is nothing short of racism, combined with ineptitude with a bucketful of corruption on top. I know this is Spain, or rather this isn't but one cannot help but think that the standards one gets in France, Germany, England etc would have rubbed off at least a fraction on the Spanish or rather Catalunians. Alas one learns rather quickly such couldnt be further from the truth.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

By the way, our postman has lost the plot, he originally delivered to our house, then started to leave our post under rocks along the roadside. Luckily our neighbours found most of it and brought it up. When we complained to the head post office they admitted they had, had over 100 complaints from not only the foreigners in the area but more importantly the locals. However, as is the case in the rest of Spain, getting rid of folk with contracts is nigh on impossible. So now all our mail is delivered to the local bar. Who are made to show their id to the postman each and every time even though he has known them all his life. (he doesnt take note of NIE numbers or the like before anyone says he does it for his records)


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

We get parcels, by choice, delivered to our local bar which is only five minutes walk down the road, UPS seem to be able to find bars.....
Its funny how being on holiday is different to living in a place. We used to love Catalunia, friendly people, nothing too much trouble and relaxed, just goes to show doesn't it.
As for Novelda, about 10 minutes from us and you wouldn't recognise it now, industrial parks, housing developments, town centre rebuilt. To be honest we used to go there quite a bit but not too keen now so we haven't been there for months.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Happyexpat said:


> We get parcels, by choice, delivered to our local bar which is only five minutes walk down the road, UPS seem to be able to find bars.....
> Its funny how being on holiday is different to living in a place. We used to love Catalunia, friendly people, nothing too much trouble and relaxed, just goes to show doesn't it.
> As for Novelda, about 10 minutes from us and you wouldn't recognise it now, industrial parks, housing developments, town centre rebuilt. To be honest we used to go there quite a bit but not too keen now so we haven't been there for months.


Not long ago I met a guy from down your way, he said pretty much the same, he also added that the town is run by the Romanian mafia, so I am glad in a way we didnt buy the vineyard we were looking at. And whilst I love my little finca with its terraces, olive trees and weeds (don't love them) I am not so sure, knowing what we know now about this place we would have bought here. But then isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Don't know about the Romanian Mafia but I guess it wouldN't surprise me be they Romanian, Russian, Spanish or even Martians. It seems to me that corruption in one form or another is everywhere in the world, just in some places less obvious. Being a cynic gets easier as you get older!
Don't get me wrong there are far worse places than Novelda, Benidorm springs to mind but of course even that suits many people.....as usual horses for courses springs to mind! For me its the Campo and a quiet life i can visit the towns when I like and then run away!


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Happyexpat said:


> Don't know about the Romanian Mafia but I guess it wouldN't surprise me be they Romanian, Russian, Spanish or even Martians. It seems to me that corruption in one form or another is everywhere in the world, just in some places less obvious. Being a cynic gets easier as you get older!
> Don't get me wrong there are far worse places than Novelda, Benidorm springs to mind but of course even that suits many people.....as usual horses for courses springs to mind! For me its the Campo and a quiet life i can visit the towns when I like and then run away!


A couple of months back I actually realised I hadn't been off my mountain for nearly 3 weeks, thing is I didn't need anything, so decided to stay where I was. 

There are days when I don't see anyone, then other days I see my neighbours and we discuss the weather and the price of crops along with chat about how much the weeds are growing. All fascinating stuff, well to a farmer it is. :rofl:


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Hmmmm, farming now that is an attractive idea until you think about weeds, planting, harvesting and back breaking work. I think I will stick to computers and model aircraft for a hobby. Our garden is enough for me.


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