# Canadian moving to Dubai



## dunnka (Jul 20, 2009)

I have been looking all over this site and have found a lot of great information. I wanted to post my actual situation to get some experienced feedback specific to my situation. 

My wife and young son will be moving with me and she will stay at home. We would like to live in a detached villa with private pool close to a supermarket and recreation center. I have been offered a salary of 37,000 AED plus 20,000 AED housing, plus medical, plus bonus. 

We will be looking to save half of the salary and use the other half for living expenses. 

Does anyone have an idea if this is doable in Dubai?

Thanks to everyone in advance. We are excited to make the move and hope this is a good offer.


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## basimoli (Feb 13, 2009)

dunnka said:


> I have been looking all over this site and have found a lot of great information. I wanted to post my actual situation to get some experienced feedback specific to my situation.
> 
> My wife and young son will be moving with me and she will stay at home. We would like to live in a detached villa with private pool close to a supermarket and recreation center. I have been offered a salary of 37,000 AED plus 20,000 AED housing, plus medical, plus bonus.
> 
> ...


Few observations:
Why do you need a private pool? Most expat areas have community pools , better for the safety of your child and less expensive than having to maintain a private pool. Look at areas such as Meadows, Lakes or Springs for villas. 

Are you sending your son to school/nursery? If yes then who is covering the cost? It can be quite expensive so your saving target might be reduced if you have to pay.

How about a car (or 2)? have you budgeted for that? Do you have a transport allowance or company car?

If you have cover for the above then I think your saving target is very possible, although as many people on this forum keep saying "it all depends on your life style"


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

dunnka said:


> I have been looking all over this site and have found a lot of great information. I wanted to post my actual situation to get some experienced feedback specific to my situation.
> 
> My wife and young son will be moving with me and she will stay at home. We would like to live in a detached villa with private pool close to a supermarket and recreation center. I have been offered a salary of 37,000 AED plus 20,000 AED housing, plus medical, plus bonus.
> 
> ...


With a housing allowance of AED 20k per month, i.e. AED 240k per annum you will be able to get a decent 3-4 bed place and probably with a pool. Unlike the other poster, I am also a fan of a private pool. Much nicer not to have to share. You will not get a great deal of choice in that price range though as many people shun putting in pools due to upkeep costs. Some of the villas in the newer suburban areas such as Lakes/Meadows/Arabian Ranches may have their own small pool. 

Rental costs have come down a great deal, but are still relatively expensive compared to other major cities. Before you decide on area, you should consider where you will be working so as to minimise your journey times. You might get luicky and find someone willing o accept monthly rent but that is still rare. More common is annual or half yearly.

School fees are expensive and depending on the age of your son, and the school he goes to, could cost between AED 30-50k a year. With your rent paid, AED 37k is enough to have a comfortable lifestyle and save money.

Good luck & keep asking questions. 

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## basimoli (Feb 13, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Unlike the other poster, I am also a fan of a private pool. Much nicer not to have to share.
> -


Ahh, actually I am a fan of private pools! But I have two small children to think about and I do not want to enslave a maid to watch after them all day for a pittance.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

basimoli said:


> Ahh, actually I am a fan of private pools! But I have two small children to think about and I do not want to enslave a maid to watch after them all day for a pittance.


Why would having a pool mean you need a maid to look after your children?  Shame on anyone who pays their maid a pittance too. It is up to the employer to decide what to pay and how to treat a maid.


Everyone knows that water and children can spell danger, but if anyone has their own pool, it is their responsibility to fence it off/secure it etc.


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## basimoli (Feb 13, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Why would having a pool mean you need a maid to look after your children?  Shame on anyone who pays their maid a pittance too. It is up to the employer to decide what to pay and how to treat a maid.
> 
> 
> Everyone knows that water and children can spell danger, but if anyone has their own pool, it is their responsibility to fence it off/secure it etc.
> ...


What I am trying to say is that with children you need to minimise risks, that is why people put stairgates for example. With a pool you are only adding an element of risk that you could do without and which could be of very severe consequences. So read what I am saying carefully before you reply. 

As far as maids are concerned, then you obvioudly do not know what is going on (or pretending not to)! We see a lot of kids spending a lot of time with their maids while the parents are no where to be seen (before you jump in again with one of your lectures, I am not saying that everyone does it). And many (not all) of these people treat their maid badly and pay pittance. If people were obliged to pay maids a fair wage then not many of them would have maids. How many UK expats do you know who used to have a maid in the UK (for example of course).


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## dunnka (Jul 20, 2009)

Thank you for all the input and location suggestions. As for the pool I totally understand that it is adding a risk however we are more than protective of our son and would definately take the necessary steps to limit access. We are interested in a maid perhaps on a part time basis and not to watch our son but to help around the house. My wife will take care of our son as that is what we feel comfortable with.

Our son is almost 3 so we would likely look for a nursery school for a couple mornings a week. What schools do you suggest and how close are they to housing locations in our prcice range?

We will have one car at first, thinking of shipping our car from here. Likely will end up with two after we settle. 

Are there any housing locations with supermarket and recreation center close by? My wife would prefer not to drive long distances to these amenities.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

basimoli said:


> What I am trying to say is that with children you need to minimise risks, that is why people put stairgates for example. With a pool you are only adding an element of risk that you could do without and which could be of very severe consequences. So read what I am saying carefully before you reply.
> 
> As far as maids are concerned, then you obvioudly do not know what is going on (or pretending not to)! We see a lot of kids spending a lot of time with their maids while the parents are no where to be seen (before you jump in again with one of your lectures, I am not saying that everyone does it). And many (not all) of these people treat their maid badly and pay pittance. If people were obliged to pay maids a fair wage then not many of them would have maids. How many UK expats do you know who used to have a maid in the UK (for example of course).


Oh please. Do grow up & try expressing yourself more clearly. You made the daft comment about having to get a maid to watch your child if you had a pool. The two are not connected. Your exact words were "_I do not want to enslave a maid to watch after them all day for a pittance._" as if that was compulsory!e
Sure some people treat maids badly & use them as cheap nannies - who says they dont'? - but the pool is irrelevant.

I am priobably better aware of maid injustices than most posters as I have been here a number of years and am involved with charities to help both them and labourers. Rather than taking a wet 'holier then thou' attitude people could get off their backsides and do something to help?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong in hiring staff. It is what you pay them and how you treat them that matters. In fact I know a number of people in the UK who had/have staff. I had a cleaner. It is little different to employing a secretary in principle. Any employee should be treated well. It ought to be very simple.

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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

dunnka said:


> Thank you for all the input and location suggestions. As for the pool I totally understand that it is adding a risk however we are more than protective of our son and would definately take the necessary steps to limit access. We are interested in a maid perhaps on a part time basis and not to watch our son but to help around the house. My wife will take care of our son as that is what we feel comfortable with.
> 
> Our son is almost 3 so we would likely look for a nursery school for a couple mornings a week. What schools do you suggest and how close are they to housing locations in our prcice range?
> 
> ...


There are numerous area you can live in that will have places in your price range and are not far from shops. Nowhere is really that far from a half-decent supermarket. 

As I said earlier, you need to consider where you will be working and work back from that. There should be info about nurseries in a sticky thread and there are lots of them. By age 4 children here are at schools rather than nurseries.

I doubt a car sold in Canada will match up to Gulf specs. This subject has been discussed a few times so do a search for more info

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## basimoli (Feb 13, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Oh please. Do grow up & try expressing yourself more clearly. You made the daft comment about having to get a maid to watch your child if you had a pool. The two are not connected. Your exact words were "_I do not want to enslave a maid to watch after them all day for a pittance._" as if that was compulsory!e
> Sure some people treat maids badly & use them as cheap nannies - who says they dont'? - but the pool is irrelevant.
> 
> I am priobably better aware of maid injustices than most posters as I have been here a number of years and am involved with charities to help both them and labourers. Rather than taking a wet 'holier then thou' attitude people could get off their backsides and do something to help?
> ...


:clap2: nice speech


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## chunkykitty (Jul 20, 2009)

hi. my advice go to go dubai forum, post it htere. im sure u will b just fine. i live at the green community and its a very family orientaited place. have a nice day. asel


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## Ray-a-sunshine (Mar 31, 2009)

Hey there, I am originally from Canada, then Australia and as of a week ago Dubai.

Good Luck with the move! 

As some have pointed out the savings is up to your lifestyle, I would predict that it will be very hard to save anything in the first half a year after moving costs, schools, clothes housewares that got left behind etc., but you should be able to save something depending on the car/school allowances that you may or may not have.

There are areas that have everything around them so that your wife would not have to drive as much. However you really need to get a feel for things and see things for yourself. I didn't believe my husband when he was telling me this but driving around the last couple of days has really opened my eyes to this. It is hard to explain, it is all personal choice. 

Like you we only want one car, for numerous reasons, so I understand completely where you are coming from. 

As for private pools my eyes were opened a lot in Australia and we have always had private pools there where there were very strict laws on fencing them. Here there are no laws and if you are renting you would have to get permission to build a fence around the pool and probably pay for it yourself. By having a pool you are cutting out your sons backyard play time. I hope this makes sense. As the only time your son will be able to be in the back yard is with someone all the time, there would be no running in to grab the phone or use the washroom or change the laundry etc. We have young children and being the primary carer for them I am not willing to take on that responsibility all the time so we are not getting a pool here. If it was our own villa then I would put a pool in and fence it accordingly and have a great time. Just remember it only takes a second for an accident to happen. If our 5 year old son was the youngest in our family we would have a private pool but I have a 2 year old that I am not willing to take a chance on. 

This is just one strangers opinion but perhaps has given you something else to think about. 

We have rented a huge 3bed apt for 2 months while we sort things out like housing, schools etc. I am glad we have this opportunity as it gives us a chance to really think about what we want, and what we need as there is a HUGE difference out here between those two things. I get the opportunity to drive around with my husband and miss the turn offs from SZR as the road signs are absolutly horrible here.

I would agree that the gulf specs on cars are different here than in other countries but to be honest we found the specs here worse than Australia when it came to safety features. As such it took us awhile to find a car that had the features we "needed" and was in our price range. 

Since I am new here I can't give you any advice on an area just that what may look good on paper or on google earth etc may not be what you thought once you get here. I am walking proof of that and am so happy my husband refused to get a place until I got here.

Take care, by the way when are you looking at moving out?



I


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Well said Ray-a-sunshine. 

I think renting somewhere for a couple of months to give you time to get to know the city a little is a very wise plan.

When I refer to Gulf specs, I meant specificially things like aircon which need to be industrial strength. I doubt that cars built for Canadian weather would stand up to the heat and dust of the Gulf. There are also legal requirements regarding specs for imported cars.

And I agree that the road signs are bad. You need more than 50M notice for an exit!

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## dunnka (Jul 20, 2009)

I agree the aircon is likely not strong enough for the region. I will have to look into further to see. Checking the classified sites I can get the same car there for little difference in price to what I can sell it for here. Might be the way to go.

We are keen to move out but not sure on the offer. I am having a hard time getting other options though as I have been told there are a ton of people trying to get jobs there even with the people moving out. 

Renting an apartment is a good idea that would likely do to get familiar with my work location and nearby commute distances. 

Ray-a, sounds like your youngest is about the same age as my son. If we ever get over there it would be great to have a playdate. 

From your perspective (based on life in Canada) what would be the pros and cons for living in Dubai? I know the heat is negative in the summer and the tax free living is a positive. What else?

Thanks again to everyone providing information and suggestions.


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## Xpat (Nov 12, 2008)

dunnka said:


> I agree the aircon is likely not strong enough for the region. I will have to look into further to see. Checking the classified sites I can get the same car there for little difference in price to what I can sell it for here. Might be the way to go.
> 
> We are keen to move out but not sure on the offer. I am having a hard time getting other options though as I have been told there are a ton of people trying to get jobs there even with the people moving out.
> 
> ...


Well I am looking forward for canucks to join this city. Housing problem has been answered and yes savign half of ur salary on first yr can be hard. Basic things are expensive here but much better than 2 yrs ago. 

U must be amazed when I went to second hand car showrooms, many cars are being imported from states and Canada and are being sold here. Two of my friends have toyotas made in Canada. yes it requires some modding even after that i heard it's much cheaper than buying here but you have to take into account you have to spend time on it.

As far as differences bet Dubai and Canada. i lived in Toronto and there are many differences . U mentioned tax haven but hell i would gladly pay tax in canada than pay some miscellaneous fees. Many stuffs like books, electric shave etc I found cheaper in canada EVEN after paying PST and GST - 15% than what the malls sell here. I buy books from amazon thrice a year and put on wish list and have it shipped here courtesy of my uncle in states. Recently aramax have started virtual postbox where they ship stuffs from states for nominal fee.

Social life -Most important difference is social fabric here is different. I used to live near university and usually met intellectuals and urbane ppl. Here many are conservative and I found many pretentious. I really miss that intellectual environment. In short social life is not better than Canada.

Amenities - Basic amenities like schools, library, club membership (lions club (gone), rotary international (hell expensive)) are expensive. I used to pay 40 bucks per month in canada and had way better gym than what I pay 200 bucks per month. I used to pay measly 50 bucks for Toastmaster membership and had HUGE variety and quality clubs to choose from here I pay 250 bucks and qualit clubs are limited.

Roads - Roads kill more ppl here than Canada cos ppl are bored. Yes they love Dayatona racing here and tail gating is legit. 

Laws - Laws are made by few powerful ppl in town and sways according to wind. Most locals suffer from xenophobia (implicit) and will make laws that protects their interest even if majority of expatriates go broke.

Water - Yes there was a time in Canada where I used to spend an hour on shower-- those were the days here water is exBensive than Betrol (petrol).

Hotels - Hotels here have more quality than Canada.

Malls - There are WAY more malls here per sq km than Canada.

Communication - Dirty Salad (nick of Etisalat) pretty much has monopoly on telephone and internet and charges arm and leg. VOIP is blocked and good "ol stuffs in internet are blocked too.

Exotic places - Most important if Dubai gets in ur nerves u have lots of places nearby to fly and relax, Canada has US of A who looks and speaks just like US!

Lastly since u r married this may not apply to u - girls yes, I miss canadian girls here it's only concentrated in new dubai area in Canada there was variety. 

inshort the song Guns and roses sums it all -" take me down to paradise city where the grass is green and girls are pretty"

PM me when u get here I will help u with basics.


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## Ray-a-sunshine (Mar 31, 2009)

Hey Dunnka

Sorry for the late reply but we have been really busy and I have been thinking about what you are asking and didn't really have an answer until now.

I really can't give you pros and cons between the two as I have only been here a few weeks and I shouldn't judge things yet.

What I can say is we came out here with NO expectations. Short of breaking even after year one and financially gaining after that and working towards an amazing retirement and helping out our kids. We heard a lot of bad things about the area and expected the worst and we have been pleasantly surprised by some. 

I wouldn't call Dubai a 'pretty' city. There are some nice things like a few parks, some good beaches, some amazing buildings. But there is a lot of construction, people told me this and I am still amazed at how much there is. I honestly don't think I have driven down one street that has some sort of work going on. 

LIfe is 'life' here there is still a job to do, dishes to clean and a family to feed and do the bedtime routine with. In saying that it is what you make of it. We have recently picked up a few books on 4x4 adventures and Weekend getaway sort of thing and there is enough stuff in there to keep us busy for a couple of years. There are so many other destinations available to us by plane that only take half a day to get to instead of a couple of days from Australia or Canada. We are hoping to take the opportunity to experience all of these amazing cities and countries while we are close. We have recently purchased a couple of jet skis to enjoy the water and take the kids on tube rides, knee board, water skiing etc. 

I think it is about finding a balance. If you save too much money and not have any fun you will be miserable. If you spend a bit and enjoy what is on offer, try to forget about the negatives and concentrate on the positive you will still save. It may take a bit longer to reach your final goal but you will at least have fun while you do it. 

As the weather goes, early mornings and evenings in this hot summer are nice. I haven't been here for a winter yet but I am happy to never have to experience another Canadian winter again. And I hear the winters here are lovely. 

I am not a shopper, in fact I sort of hate shopping but you will never get bored with the stores here and what is on offer, unless of course you are a shopper. 

We have joined a beach club at a hotel. This is great. We get use the 5* facilities and get discounts on the restaurants etc. The kids love the pool area and always seem to make friends with the other kids there. You know kids. We even Finally found our permanent apt to rent nearby the area as well so that I can walk there with the kids on days my husband has the car. 

Schooling is mad. Especially with the younger kids and as soon as you know that you are definately coming here I would put your name down on as many school lists as possible. We don't seem to have much of a problem finding a school for our older child but our son is a bit of an issue and we are getting the 'sorry we are full' line from a lot of schools. In saying that we have found a spot for them at one school. It isn't our first pick, or one of our top picks but at least it is something and we are continuing to look at others in hopes of getting them there. This process does cost money. Each school has an application fee, most schools will want to do an asessment which will also be a fee and then there is the non refundable deposit to be paid to secure the spot. Some schools will take this fee off the first term fees some schools will not. It is a huge head ache and what is taking up so much of out time at the moment. I should add that we are trying to find schools closer to where we are living as well and that is limiting our choices as well as the annual school fees. We do get a school allowance from my husbands company but it isn't enough to cover the fees at most schools. We will have to top them up and it is a matter of how much we want to top up. We also think that with schools fees going up nearly every year how much will the school be by the time our son is older and how much will we have to top up and not wanting to pull him out to change schools because we can't aford it.

I hope this gives you something to think about. There is so much more but I might save that for another day if you decide to come out.

Good luck with it all and we are always up for play dates and meeting new friends. Anything to make the transition easier. 

Take care


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## dunnka (Jul 20, 2009)

Hi Ray-a,

Thanks again for all the information and advice. 

Turns out I am still on the job hunt. 

We are still hopeful on landing a job in Dubai or Abu Dhabi. The market seems so difficult, especially when we are not living in the region. We will keep trying.

If anyone knows of a private equity investment manager or fund administrator looking to hire a VP, manager, controller. Please let me know. I think my best bet is by having someone there on the ground provide a contact.


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## alioop (Aug 9, 2009)

dunnka said:


> I have been looking all over this site and have found a lot of great information. I wanted to post my actual situation to get some experienced feedback specific to my situation.
> 
> My wife and young son will be moving with me and she will stay at home. We would like to live in a detached villa with private pool close to a supermarket and recreation center. I have been offered a salary of 37,000 AED plus 20,000 AED housing, plus medical, plus bonus.
> 
> ...


Suggest you look on website called dubizzle which has current properties that are available with prices. There are alot of bargains at the moment.
If your son is school age, there's no way this will be enough as school fees are very high, if not then you should be ok. Saving half depends on what you do with your time, Dubai is not a cheap place to live.


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## Amnesia180 (May 13, 2009)

dunnka said:


> Hi Ray-a,
> 
> Thanks again for all the information and advice.
> 
> ...


Hi Dunnka, 

Good luck on your job search and welcome to the board!

I don't have any advice to offer regarding having a family in the UAE, but I will say - Abu Dhabi is a different ball game to Dubai. Rents are much higher and schools are harder to get into. You will also be hard pressed to find a private pool (unless you're in a very up-market area, Al Bateen looks rather nice). 

I would like to add to what others have said, that it depends on your lifestyle as to how much you can save. If you're an expat that is looking for an "easier way of life", then I wouldn't have thought Dubai/Abu Dhabi would be the place for you. I have friends who moved to New Zealand, took lower paid jobs and bills are actually much, much tighter than in the UK. However, life is slower paced and they generally enjoy it more (with a beach nearby, etc).

That is not to say you won't enjoy life in the UAE, but from the impression I get - this is a chance to make some tax free cash to be able to take to your retirement location/kids future.

You will hear a lot of horror stories, but jump into it with the attitude of Ray-a-sunshine and you'll have a blast.

Saying that, this is a brilliant place to be skint. You can have your maid, your pool nearby, a beach, and the sun will always shine. Plenty of places to go and lots to experience. With fuel being so cheap, you can even fill up and drive to Abu Dhabi to view the Emirates Palace or the Grand Mosque (which is VERY impressive).

Sorry my post doesn't really have any direction, just wanted to add my contribution for you


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

On Saturday 15th August the Personal Finance section of The National is running a Canadian expat special.

I'll post links following publication, but any Canadians in the UAE may like to pick up a copy at the weekend.

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## dunnka (Jul 20, 2009)

Thank you Elphaba, I will look for that link. 

I completely understand my lifestyle will dictate savings. We are relatively low key people especially now that we have our son so imagine we will want a beach club membership and as far as nightlife maybe a weekly dinner out and a movie. Other than that hope to meet lots of people and hang out at play dates and the like. 

Now just need to get that job....


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