# residency



## explayboybunny (May 31, 2013)

So I went to get my residency certificate armed with all I needed, my husband had been putting 400 euros every month into my account and I had 20,000 euros in savings in my Spanish bank account, I own outright the house we have in Jaen so I took along my property deeds aswell, I'm not yet at retirement age but my husband is although he still goes back and forth to Wales and I want to stay here in Spain, anyway when I presented my stuff at the extrajeros I was told that 400 euros per month is not enough and even if it was the correct amount of 623 euros per month it was not from a guaranteed source and therefor not acceptable, I was refused a certificate, I'm so confused I don;t know what to do, I was hoping to stay in Spain for a long time, maybe forever. My husband has a British state pension and can access his online statements, would that help me get residency, I really need help....please


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

explayboybunny said:


> So I went to get my residency certificate armed with all I needed, my husband had been putting 400 euros every month into my account and I had 20,000 euros in savings in my Spanish bank account, I own outright the house we have in Jaen so I took along my property deeds aswell, I'm not yet at retirement age but my husband is although he still goes back and forth to Wales and I want to stay here in Spain, anyway when I presented my stuff at the extrajeros I was told that 400 euros per month is not enough and even if it was the correct amount of 623 euros per month it was not from a guaranteed source and therefor not acceptable, I was refused a certificate, I'm so confused I don;t know what to do, I was hoping to stay in Spain for a long time, maybe forever. My husband has a British state pension and can access his online statements, would that help me get residency, I really need help....please


I have to admit that I'm surprised, but not all that much 

This is the first time I've heard that an extranjería cared where the money comes from, but I've long had a feeling that it was only a matter of time. If they are being that 'strict' I doubt it would help if you provided proof of your husband's pension - they seem to feel that there's no guarantee that he will continue to send you money.

That said, sometimes just going on a different day & seeing someone different behind the desk can make a difference....... Might be worth a try

I assume you had proof of health insurance as well?

Just a thought - you say that your husband is going back & forth.... is he perhaps here long enough or often enough that strictly speaking he is resident?

If he were registering with you, that would solve the problem


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Just for information - this was issued at the Dénia extranjería this week


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

... interestingly, nothing about having savings or owning a property here.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... interestingly, nothing about having savings or owning a property here.


There is the handwritten bit about 'saldo' which of course means bank balance, though it isn't clear if that is as well as, or instead of the income.

The person who was given this has an appt next week, so when they know I'll post what happened.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I just took another look at the govt info for requirements of those not working 



> Si no se ejerce actividad laboral en España se deberá aportar:
> Documentación acreditativa de disponer de seguro de enfermedad público o privado, contratado en España o en otro país, siempre que proporcione una cobertura en España durante su periodo de residencia equivalente a la proporcionada por el sistema nacional de salud. Los pensionistas cumplen con esta condición aportando certificación de disponer de asistencia sanitaria con cargo al Estado por el que perciben pensión.
> Documentación que acredite disponer de recursos suficientes para él y sus familiares para el periodo de residencia en España. Se podrá acreditar por cualquier medio de prueba admitido en derecho, tales como títulos de propiedad, cheques certificados, documentación justificativa de obtención de rentas de capital o tarjetas de crédito con certificación bancaria que acredite la cantidad disponible como crédito de la citada tarjeta.


Which means 



> If work activity is not exercised in Spain one must provide:
> Proof of public or private health cover, contracted in Spain or in another country, provided it gives cover in Spain, equivalent to that provided by the national health system during the period of residence. To meet this condition, pensioners shall have certification providing health care under the State from which they receive the pension.
> Documentation proving sufficient resources for the applicant and his family for the period of residence in Spain. This may be evidenced by any legal means, such as property titles, certified cheques, supporting documentation for capital income or credit cards with bank certificate stating the amount of credit available on the said card .



So the govt guidelines suggest that owned property should be taken into account, although it also says that supporting the source of income in a bank is required.

From http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es/informacioninteres/InformacionProcedimientos/CiudadanosComunitarios/hoja102/index.html#requisitos


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

explayboybunny said:


> So I went to get my residency certificate armed with all I needed, my husband had been putting 400 euros every month into my account and I had 20,000 euros in savings in my Spanish bank account, I own outright the house we have in Jaen so I took along my property deeds aswell, I'm not yet at retirement age but my husband is although he still goes back and forth to Wales and I want to stay here in Spain, anyway when I presented my stuff at the extrajeros I was told that 400 euros per month is not enough and even if it was the correct amount of 623 euros per month it was not from a guaranteed source and therefor not acceptable, I was refused a certificate, I'm so confused I don;t know what to do, I was hoping to stay in Spain for a long time, maybe forever. My husband has a British state pension and can access his online statements, would that help me get residency, I really need help....please


Know I am going to get flack over this but, duh.

Why panic explayboybunny, they cannot throw you out and 100s of 1000's don't even bother applying


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Know I am going to get flack over this but, duh.
> 
> Why panic explayboybunny, they cannot throw you out and 100s of 1000's don't even bother applying


If caught you can be fined.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I know you can technically, but it's not exactly widespread. Look I am not advocating deliberate law breaking but when you have a case such as this whereby the applicant has income, large lump sum and owns their own house - if that still doesn't please some desk jockey my attitude would be sod them, I tried, I will now get on with my life


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## Moyra (Aug 10, 2014)

If you prove you have an English pension as income would the Spainsh then want to tax the pension?

Moyra


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Know I am going to get flack over this but, duh.
> 
> Why panic explayboybunny, they cannot throw you out and 100s of 1000's don't even bother applying


My standard reply to this is why wouldn't you want to follow the rules of a country that you have chosen to live in ? Apart from being illegal I think it shows a certain respect and a certain awareness that you are living in another country and accept their ways of doing things.
However, over the years I've begun to see things from a different side.* I do think it's wise to do as the Spanish government ask you to ie have enough money to live on, get health care sorted and whatever else it is that you have to do*, but it's all a sham anyway. One year down the road is anyone checking to see that that's still the case? I've never heard of any follow ups.
Don't forget though that depending on what you want to do in the country, you will need that certificate. I think you need it to be able to buy a house for example, I need it to be self employed...


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I do not think you need it to buy a house

Furthermore in the original posters case they did seem to have ample funding yet it still wasn t good enough


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> I do not think you need it to buy a house
> 
> Furthermore in the original posters case they did seem to have ample funding yet it still was t good enough


Yes, I wasn't sure, but there are cases, not many where you will be asked for it. I have been asked for it for doing work papers (just last week a company asked me for it) and once in the bank for I don't know what.
I'm not saying it's well implemented, nor well thought out, but in the end there's no argument. You're required to have it and that's that. If someone decides not to comply, well that's up to each individual, but I wouldn't talk about it on a forum


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Very true
Probably as many don't comply as do and for a run of the mill couple- no kids nor need to work- the day to day impact of not having it would be minimal. Can still buy house, car etc.

At the end of the day everyone should comply but if you genuinely try like the original poster- and cannot get a result , well then you make your own decision


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## explayboybunny (May 31, 2013)

Thanks for your informative reply, really grateful. Going on another day won't help I'm afraid as Gema is the only English speaker they have, after a long talk my husband says he is happy to become resident, Gema said we would need all his documents and our marriage licence to be translated into Spanish and signed by a lawyer, we are seeing a lawyer on Wednesday 22nd, will proof of my husbands state pension bank statements be enough? what else would he need? of course we still need to consider the possibility of changes if we are no longer part of the E.U., to be honest its a bit of a bloody mess at the moment.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Very true
> Probably as many don't comply as do and for a run of the mill couple- no kids nor need to work- the day to day impact of not having it would be minimal. Can still buy house, car etc.
> 
> At the end of the day everyone should comply but if you genuinely try like the original poster- and cannot get a result , well then you make your own decision


If you are a British pensioner or the dependant of one, and have an S1 form, then you cannot register with the Spanish state health system unless you are officially resident. That is one thing that makes the "duckers and divers" suddenly want to comply with the law once they reach UK retirement age, and there is something in it for them - as they see it. 

Of course, if the UK votes to leave the EU, one day that may not be available to them anyway. I wonder if it would make the Spanish authorities keener to start checking up on Brits? We might start being stopped in the street and asked to produce our ID documents as people of other non EU nationalities are. Perhaps that wouldn't be altogether a bad thing.

Last week I did hear for the first time of a British person who was stopped and asked for her ID (she is the wife of the Ecuadoren man I have mentioned earlier who routinely has his ID checked). She was asked for her ID by a GC officer whilst out in Nerja and because she didn't have her passport with her she was fined just over €100 (this was some time ago, though).


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## explayboybunny (May 31, 2013)

How would my husband get an N.H.S. certificate, is it given by his local G.P?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Moyra said:


> If you prove you have an English pension as income would the Spainsh then want to tax the pension?
> 
> Moyra


If it is not a Crown pension (eg civil service, local authority, armed forces, etc) then the answer is yes, if the pension is above the Spanish personal tax allowances. If you live in Spain then you must declare all your income from anywhere in the world (as a Spanish citizen must) and pay income tax.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

explayboybunny said:


> How would my husband get an N.H.S. certificate, is it given by his local G.P?


It's called an S1, & is supplied by the DWP in Newcastle. Give them a ring.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Moyra said:


> If you prove you have an English pension as income would the Spainsh then want to tax the pension?
> 
> Moyra


May be, may be not; all depends what other income you have .

Don't forget, ALL worldwide income should be declared on your Spanish tax return (including UK pension).


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> It's called an S1, & is supplied by the DWP in Newcastle. Give them a ring.


And he needs to request one for his wife as well, as his dependant.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

It is indeed true that it's wiser to register but if the local red tape prevents it you gotta do what ya gotta do.

Certainly the Health ins could be an issue but even there for some ( pre existing aside) private med ins could be just as affordable . 

I would try my best to comply and register...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Certainly the Health ins could be an issue but even there for some ( pre existing aside) private med ins could be just as affordable .


Not for anybody applying to take out new private medical insurance when aged over 65 it isn't, nor for anybody who needs expensive medication.

You don't think the type of people who don't want to register as residents or pay income tax bother with private medical insurance, do you? They just use their EHIC cards fraudently or go back to the UK for treatment they aren't entitled to. I know several who do just that.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I agree with you. However there are others in the same boat as the original poster who come across pointless redtape whilst they are genuinely trying to comply. In my own case private health ins is quoted as roughly the same as what I would pay into Con ESP - of course more may be covered with state care.

Bottom line is everyone should comply but I don't necessarily think of all those who don't as the worst people on the planet. Each to their own


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

Following this post because we are hoping to register for residencia when our SIP comes through from DWP in UK and we may well be in same boat as OP. We have bought a house for cash and have approx the same amount left in Uk bank and 20+ in Spanish account BUT we only have hubbys state pension ( Im not eligble for mine for another 5 years) and 2 very small private pensions amounting to under £100 per month, so is the same going to apply to Us?Most of the UK people living in this village dont have the residencia (all have SIP cards) and are saying for us not to bother !! BUT we know we should because we have no other home in Uk and plan to live here permanently (as they all do) so it is puzzling to us, what if we cant get residency after buying a property ? Do we sell up and go home, might be easier said than done


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

paintersmate said:


> Following this post because we are hoping to register for residencia when our SIP comes through from DWP in UK and we may well be in same boat as OP. We have bought a house for cash and have approx the same amount left in Uk bank and 20+ in Spanish account BUT we only have hubbys state pension ( Im not eligble for mine for another 5 years) and 2 very small private pensions amounting to under £100 per month, so is the same going to apply to Us?Most of the UK people living in this village dont have the residencia (all have SIP cards) and are saying for us not to bother !! BUT we know we should because we have no other home in Uk and plan to live here permanently (as they all do) so it is puzzling to us, what if we cant get residency after buying a property ? Do we sell up and go home, might be easier said than done


Don't panic - like a lot of Brits, your neighbours are wrong. You are OBLIGED to sign on the list of foreigners - it is also beneficial to do so (Google CGT and IHT when living in Spain).

As pensioners, you will almost certainly be allowed to sign on the list of foreigners (wrongly called 'getting residency').

No matter whether you get it or not, you can't be told to leave. 

Also, irrespective of whether you do get it, you MUST complete a tax return each year for ALL your world-wide income.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Exactly Snikpoh, bottom line " don't panic"

Do all you can to comply, if you can't, you can't. Have a lingering cold beer a couple of churros and maybe try again next year


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## explayboybunny (May 31, 2013)

Hi, when you say "they can't throw you out", is that true?, I thought the police could come to the house and tell you to leave if you overstay your time here.


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## explayboybunny (May 31, 2013)

How much is the fine?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

explayboybunny said:


> Hi, when you say "they can't throw you out", is that true?, I thought the police could come to the house and tell you to leave if you overstay your time here.


Nope, they can only fine you - and I've yet to hear of any one being fined!


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