# Moving to Spain, my situation , please suggest



## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Hi ,

I am interested in Moving to Spain and I need bit of advice on where to live. 

*Let me give you my background and expectations.*

a) Single Male(no children) ,33 yrs, British Citizen, of Indian origin (i.e. no visa required).

b) I work in internet / software industry (independently through own UK based limited company) and can work from home time to time and fly to UK for meeting etc once in a week / fortnight (as and when required).

c) No family members live in UK, apart from some friends but no strong ties to the UK as such.

d) May find a Spanish girlfriend and happy to settle there. (Lets leave it to luck)

e) Do not have any property / mortgage in the UK.

f) I speak and understand basic Spanish (holiday standard)


*Why Leaving the UK?*

a)	Cold weather –I grew up in 35 -45 c in India, don’t like cold weather.
b)	London is too expensive to live /or to buy in future in that matter.
c)	Love being close to Sea/ Beaches / Nature and active outdoors lifestyle.
d)	I am simply bored of livnig here in UK for last decade.



I am planning to rent initially for a year or so and then may consider buying a property in Spain.

*What am I looking for?*

a)	City or Town in Spain by the sea (not village). MUST

b)	Good sunshine all year round with t-shirt weather MUST

c)	Close to airport with plenty of cheap flights to UK / London all year round. (affordable summer flights included) MUST

d)	Decent nightlife - Not interested in wild / crazy teenage type drinking culture.

e)	Open, multicultural and welcoming locality ( Lets face it , I am NOT white but not a refugee either, some people on the street may not understand this , which may make me a target for racism, so just want to avoid that and be careful)

f)	Lower cost if living , as compared to UK and choices of supermarkets (fresh fruits and veg, local meat ,fish and poultry etc)

g)	I am not keen on neighborhoods that are surrounded by retirees or retirement homes . After all, I want to be able to socialise with educated, well mannered people of my age (regardless of nationality )


I know I am being choosy but I just want to do my research and make the right choices. Hope some of the experienced people on this forum would be able to suggest few places.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nimtree said:


> b) Good sunshine all year round with t-shirt weather MUST


This MUST alone has limited you to the Canaries. There are several islands. You now have to concentrate on which island!


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

I agree about the Canaries re weather, but not sure they fit what you're looking for nightlife-wise. The smaller, less touristy islands are very sleepy and quiet and the bigger ones like Lanzarote attract young tourists who get very drunk and rowdy. Having said that, I'm not as familiar with the Canaries as with other places in Spain, so someone might come along and prove me wrong.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Ok, I am willing to compromise on the ALL year sunshine part...what would be next best thing please ?

Again the flights in summer would get expensive if the there is hardly any traffic to a particular place (...meaning less airline operators, meaning less competition and higher fares)


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

nimtree said:


> Ok, I am willing to compromise on the ALL year sunshine part...what would be next best thing please ?
> 
> Again the flights in summer would get expensive if the there is hardly any traffic to a particular place (...meaning less airline operators, meaning less competition and higher fares)


Barcelona seems to tick most of your boxes. It's a fairly big city (but not massive), on the coast, ethnically diverse, nice weather for most of the year, loads of cultural stuff to do, not too much of a 'lads abroad' culture. It's expensive compared to other Spanish cities, but still cheaper in London in most ways, including rent and transport. Of course, they speak Catalan there, not Spanish, but you haven't mentioned anything about the language.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

stefig said:


> Barcelona seems to tick most of your boxes. It's a fairly big city (but not massive), on the coast, ethnically diverse, nice weather for most of the year, loads of cultural stuff to do, not too much of a 'lads abroad' culture. It's expensive compared to other Spanish cities, but still cheaper in London in most ways, including rent and transport. Of course, they speak Catalan there, not Spanish, but you haven't mentioned anything about the language.


Correct, I loved Barcelona when I visited for a weekend break. Thats one option sorted. What other places I can think about please?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

As said, Spain is not guaranteed year-round T-shirt weather. Have a look at wunderground.com, it contains detailed and summary information about temperatures in the past. That should help you know if the weather is good enough.

In my view towns by the sea are quiet out of season and you won't find the nightlife you are looking for. They have plenty of bars and restaurants which open late, but they don't provide what your average Brit (or Indian who's lived in Britain for a long time) would call nightlife.

So you need to look at cities.

Valencia, Malaga, Barcelona. In that order.

Valencia's flights might be a little more expensive on average than the other two. It's the only negative point, otherwise it meets all your requirements.

Barcelona might not be in Spain much longer because it's full of flag waving nationalists frothing at the mouth. That may or may not bother you. It's also packed every day of the year with tourists and people there to rob tourists. And the food is crap (it is of course possible to get good food there, but pot-luck decisions on where to eat are more likely than not going to end in disappointment). It was fabulous, it's not anymore. But some people still like it.

Malaga will be in Spain for the foreseeable future, is the hottest of the 3 in winter, and has connections as cheap and frequent as any.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

nimtree said:


> Correct, I loved Barcelona when I visited for a weekend break. Thats one option sorted. What other places I can think about please?


Valencia and Malaga are both decent-sized cities by the coast. Malaga generally has better weather year-round.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

Horlics said:


> As said, Spain is not guaranteed year-round T-shirt weather. Have a look at wunderground.com, it contains detailed and summary information about temperatures in the past. That should help you know if the weather is good enough.
> 
> In my view towns by the sea are quiet out of season and you won't find the nightlife you are looking for. They have plenty of bars and restaurants which open late, but they don't provide what your average Brit (or Indian who's lived in Britain for a long time) would call nightlife.
> 
> ...


I don't think Valencia's nightlife is amazing if you're used to big cities. It's very laid back and in winter a lot of the bars close surprisingly early by Spanish standards. I love how relaxed it is, but it's not as big and buzzy as Barcelona or London. I can't comment on Malaga as I've never lived there.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

I think you should approach it from a different way. You'll need to run through the list of "cheap flight" airports and do the logistics for both the departing one and destination one as what seems like a bit of travel can easily be a big obstacle. There are cheap flight to and from "London" but that can be somewhere like London Luton and a real pain/waste of time to get anywhere. We have tried doing it the other way, weekending in Spain but working in UK, but the getting to and from the airports wasted so much time we just stopped doing it. If you have the time then try it, get a temporary place via a website like airbnb in Valencia as you'll only know if it's what you want by trying and if it's not then you are not stuck with a long term rental and in reality only you will know if it is the place you want to be.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Strontium said:


> I think you should approach it from a different way. You'll need to run through the list of "cheap flight" airports and do the logistics for both the departing one and destination one as what seems like a bit of travel can easily be a big obstacle. There are cheap flight to and from "London" but that can be somewhere like London Luton and a real pain/waste of time to get anywhere. We have tried doing it the other way, weekending in Spain but working in UK, but the getting to and from the airports wasted so much time we just stopped doing it. If you have the time then try it, get a temporary place via a website like airbnb in Valencia as you'll only know if it's what you want by trying and if it's not then you are not stuck with a long term rental and in reality only you will know if it is the place you want to be.



Well as mentioned earlier, I am more keen on getting a contract in UK and working remotely from Spain. I agree that going back and forth would be a lot of hassle and very little gain if I am going to spend majority of time working in UK anyway...I want to be in Spain FULLTIME and UK part time, not the other way round. But I understand where you are coming from and 200% agree with AirBnB suggestion, thats the best way to taste the waves in different cities in Spain and choose one favourite!


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

stefig said:


> Valencia and Malaga are both decent-sized cities by the coast. Malaga generally has better weather year-round.


I see myself leaning toward Malaga (better weather compared to other cities and more english speakers I guess?) , Valencia and then Barcelona (in that order)...Need to visit and live for few days first and then I can decide.:fingerscrossed:


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

nimtree said:


> Well as mentioned earlier, I am more keen on getting a contract in UK and working remotely from Spain. I agree that going back and forth would be a lot of hassle and very little gain if I am going to spend majority of time working in UK anyway...I want to be in Spain FULLTIME and UK part time, not the other way round. But I understand where you are coming from and 200% agree with AirBnB suggestion, thats the best way to taste the waves in different cities in Spain and choose one favourite!


As far as I'm aware, you'll need to become tax resident in Spain if you're living there full time, even if working for a UK company.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

stefig said:


> As far as I'm aware, you'll need to become tax resident in Spain if you're living there full time, even if working for a UK company.


Surprised we got to the second page before someone brought this up. If the OP spends more than 6 months of a calendar year in Spain then he most likely needs to pay tax in Spain, and if his company doesn't have a presence in Spain that allows them to place him on a Spanish payroll, it might mean he has to register as an autonomo.

Regarding the cities - based on having lived in Barcelona for 6 months, and having visited Malaga and Valencia only once each, about 10 years ago, I'd go for Malaga. I liked it then and I've heard it's had a big revamp since.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

Chopera said:


> Surprised we got to the second page before someone brought this up. If the OP spends more than 6 months of a calendar year in Spain then he most likely needs to pay tax in Spain, and if his company doesn't have a presence in Spain that allows them to place him on a Spanish payroll, it might mean he has to register as an autonomo.
> 
> Regarding the cities - based on having lived in Barcelona for 6 months, and having visited Malaga and Valencia only once each, about 10 years ago, I'd go for Malaga. I liked it then and I've heard it's had a big revamp since.


I didn't want to be the one to do it  but it needs to be said.

I have also heard that Malaga is on the up. It's in a great location on the CdS with a brillant climate and there are some lovely beaches around there. As much as I love Valencia, I have to say that you can feel the effects of the recession more than ever. It actually feels worse than the last time I was here - lots of the places I used to visit have closed down. Most of the street I live on is boarded up shops covered in graffiti and every single evening there are people going through the bins outside. The people are (on the whole) as delightful as ever, but honestly, everyone is broke. The few bars that are here are empty. I don't know how things are in the centre/Old Town, probably much better, but it's hard here.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

stefig said:


> Barcelona seems to tick most of your boxes. It's a fairly big city (but not massive), on the coast, ethnically diverse, nice weather for most of the year, loads of cultural stuff to do, not too much of a 'lads abroad' culture. It's expensive compared to other Spanish cities, but still cheaper in London in most ways, including rent and transport. Of course, they speak Catalan there, not Spanish, but you haven't mentioned anything about the language.


Stefig, are you struggling in Valencia if you only speak Spanish not Valencian? I haven't been to Valencia so I don't know how widely it is spoken in the city and if it is a big hindrance not being able to speak it. In Barcelona, speaking Spanish is common and normal. Remember all Catalans speak Spanish too. I would think it is the same in Valencia too, no? I wouldn't let the language put me off from moving to Barcelona.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

Helenameva said:


> Stefig, are you struggling in Valencia if you only speak Spanish not Valencian? I haven't been to Valencia so I don't know how widely it is spoken in the city and if it is a big hindrance not being able to speak it. In Barcelona, speaking Spanish is common and normal. Remember all Catalans speak Spanish too. I would think it is the same in Valencia too, no? I wouldn't let the language put me off from moving to Barcelona.


It's completely different in Valencia. Nobody addresses you in Valenciano here, not in the city, anyway. Compare that to Barcelona where you WILL be addressed in Catalan first in almost all cases. I have been on the receiving end of an attitude on more than a few occasions for not being able to speak Catalan. It's also a bit of a hindrance to someone learning Spanish, in my eyes, as there's a whole other language to contend with, which is very widely spoken. It's a minor inconvenience here in Valencia because I struggle to pronounce names of streets, places and people, but everyone speaks Spanish to each other. I wouldn't live in Barcelona long term without intending to become proficient in Catalan, but that's just me.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> Stefig, are you struggling in Valencia if you only speak Spanish not Valencian? I haven't been to Valencia so I don't know how widely it is spoken in the city and if it is a big hindrance not being able to speak it. In Barcelona, speaking Spanish is common and normal. *Remember all Catalans speak Spanish too*. I would think it is the same in Valencia too, no? I wouldn't let the language put me off from moving to Barcelona.


That's true of Barcelona, but I recently found that in Girona some locals struggled with Spanish.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

stefig said:


> As far as I'm aware, you'll need to become tax resident in Spain if you're living there full time, even if working for a UK company.


Thanks for highlighting that Tax concern. I will ask that question separately in this lovely forum , as soon as I have shortlisted atleast few towns /cities to live.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Horlics said:


> As said, Spain is not guaranteed year-round T-shirt weather. Have a look at wunderground.com, it contains detailed and summary information about temperatures in the past. That should help you know if the weather is good enough.
> 
> In my view towns by the sea are quiet out of season and you won't find the nightlife you are looking for. They have plenty of bars and restaurants which open late, but they don't provide what your average Brit (or Indian who's lived in Britain for a long time) would call nightlife.
> 
> ...


Barcelona has 22 Michelin starred restaurants, Valencia 4 or 5, Madrid about 9. World renowned chef Ferran Adrià of El Bulli fame has protégéd many excellent chefs who have opened their own restaurants. I presume you ate on the tourist trail, you have my sympathy, but more fool you.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

If you want a lively, multicultural, city, with fantastic beaches, international airport, year round climate of eternal spring time, fantastic public transport, friendly locals and few if any drunken tourists, then look no further than Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Helenameva said:


> Barcelona has 22 Michelin starred restaurants, Valencia 4 or 5, Madrid about 9. World renowned chef Ferran Adrià of El Bulli fame has protégéd many excellent chefs who have opened their own restaurants. I presume you ate on the tourist trail, you have my sympathy, but more fool you.


If you go down to Andalucía, you will get as good a meal on the menú del día for between 7€ to 15€ for three courses plus a drink. You don't need Michelin stars to get good value for money in fact it is usually the opposite, every star seems to double or treble the price with very little added value to justify it.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> If you go down to Andalucía, you will get as good a meal on the menú del día for between 7€ to 15€ for three courses plus a drink. You don't need Michelin stars to get good value for money in fact it is usually the opposite, every star seems to double or treble the price with very little added value to justify it.


Exactly. And it's not as if people go to Michelin starred restaurants every day unless they're Russian oligarchs or something. I checked out a few of the Valencia ones, and a meal for two would set me back over half my monthly rent.  I'm a huge foodie and might consider going somewhere special for a birthday, but in everyday life, I'm looking for a decent, reasonably priced meal.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm employed by a UK company and live in Valencia, with only occasional incidental travel to the UK. Our company do have offices in Madrid and Barcelona - but that isn't relevant for me as I work for the UK part of the business, but I am taxed in Spain. It was a rigmarole at first with HMRC to get them to issue my company with an NT tax code to stop docking me at source in my pay packet, but I got there in the end. If you need any advice on that nearer the time, I can help you on the subjects of tax submissions or dual taxation agreements (I mean in terms of advice - though I'm no accountant!!!) Valencia is a fantastic city. Property is cheap, weather is fantastic (very little difference to Malaga - a bit warmer in the winter, but also a bit more damp). It's quite a bit warmer than Barcelona too, especially in winter. Almería has the warmest winters in Spain, but there isn't really enough going on there for you there judging from your initial post. Valencia has everything you need. Yes, there are some grubby areas in the old town, the crisis did get hit the city hard, but there is now a real air of optimism with the new local government which is giving more back to the community already. Yes some people may rummage in bins, but don't let that out you off. I've seen that every where in Spain. Also, the beaches along the coast of the Valencian Community, especially a bit further south from Cullera southwards, are much nicer - in my opinion - than the Costa Del Sol. The city beach and El Saler, 10 mins south of the city, are pretty good and excellent respectively. Valencia feels so much safer than Barcelona (although Barcelona is amazing, there are just too many tourists for me, lots of pick pocketing, too much traffic and terrible parking). In terms of the language - in Valencia city, regular Castillian Spanish is the most widely spoken. Yes, official signage is also in Valencian (the name for Catalan in Valencia), but you will by no means be expected to speak it. It is widely spoken in the outer lying areas, but everyone also speaks Spanish. Flights to Valencia are cheap most of the time, especially compared to Alicante for example. There are daily flights from Stansted with Ryanair, twice daily (three times in summer on most days) from Gatwick with Easyjet, and from November, BA also start flying. I think it's better connected to the rest of Spain than Malaga, at least by train and road. I like Valencia airport as its tiny but connects with all major European cities. Malaga is more of a Northern European draw - but I really liked it there too.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> If you go down to Andalucía, you will get as good a meal on the menú del día for between 7€ to 15€ for three courses plus a drink. You don't need Michelin stars to get good value for money in fact it is usually the opposite, every star seems to double or treble the price with very little added value to justify it.


Oh yes, el menú del dia here is usually very good too, quality and price, unless you are in a tourist haunt. Tapas on La Rambla is crap for sure. The point I was trying to make is that Barcelona and the surrounding areas are a gourmet hotspot and people who can afford it come here because the food is good. Ferran Adrià put Catalan cuisine on the map and inspired a new wave of world class chefs. It has also raised the standard for other, less famous, chefs and restaurants to provide great quality and value for money.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Helenameva said:


> Oh yes, el menú del dia here is usually very good too, quality and price, unless you are in a tourist haunt. Tapas on La Rambla is crap for sure. The point I was trying to make is that Barcelona and the surrounding areas are a gourmet hotspot and people with more money than sense come here because the food is good. Ferran Adrià put Catalan cuisine on the map and inspired a new wave of world class chefs. It has also raised the standard for other, less famous, chefs and restaurants to provide great quality and value for money.


I find the best food in Spain to be in the north - Galicia, Asturias and the Basque Country (host of Michelin Starred restaurants there but pintxos are great too), and in Andalucia. Good quality food at really reasonable prices. Catalan food at its best is good too, but Barcelona is a bit like Venice - 80% of the time you're ripped off by tourist orientated muck, the other 20% are hidden gems. In Valencia, they have possibly the best fruit and vegetables, and seafood (with Galicia) in the whole of mainland Spain (not meat though). Quality in restaurants varies however, though less so on price, but in quality of preparation. The markets are superb though.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

stefig said:


> It's completely different in Valencia. Nobody addresses you in Valenciano here, not in the city, anyway. Compare that to Barcelona where you WILL be addressed in Catalan first in almost all cases.* I have been on the receiving end of an attitude on more than a few occasions for not being able to speak Catalan.* It's also a bit of a hindrance to someone learning Spanish, in my eyes, as there's a whole other language to contend with, which is very widely spoken. It's a minor inconvenience here in Valencia because I struggle to pronounce names of streets, places and people, but everyone speaks Spanish to each other.* I wouldn't live in Barcelona long term without intending to become proficient in Catalan,* but that's just me.


Yes, definitely agree with the parts in bold


Chopera said:


> That's true of Barcelona, but I recently found that in Girona some locals struggled with Spanish.


I too have spoken to some nice Catalan people who struggled with Spanish. I say nice because there are Catalans (a minority) who will just expect everyone to speak in Catalan, but these people wanted to speak Spanish, but struggled.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

samthemainman said:


> I find the best food in Spain to be in the north - Galicia, Asturias and the Basque Country (host of Michelin Starred restaurants there but pintxos are great too), and in Andalucia. Good quality food at really reasonable prices. Catalan food at its best is good too, but Barcelona is a bit like Venice - 80% of the time you're ripped off by tourist orientated muck, the other 20% are hidden gems. In Valencia, they have possibly the best fruit and vegetables, and seafood (with Galicia) in the whole of mainland Spain (not meat though). Quality in restaurants varies however, though less so on price, but in quality of preparation. The markets are superb though.


In the area of Rojales I had the best variety and quality fruit ever. But Navarra was the best for veggies!


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

Valencian oranges are just heavenly. I can't get over how juicy and delicious they are.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, definitely agree with the parts in bold
> 
> I too have spoken to some nice Catalan people who struggled with Spanish. I say nice because there are Catalans (a minority) who will just expect everyone to speak in Catalan, but these people wanted to speak Spanish, but struggled.


I can't relate to this at all. In fact, when I speak Catalan (it's much better than my Spanish) almost every time they reply in Spanish. Perhaps there's a conspiracy afoot. Actually, it's because they assume foreigners don't bother to learn Catalan and that I would prefer to talk in Spanish. Very self deprecating in general.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

Helenameva said:


> I can't relate to this at all. In fact, when I speak Catalan (it's much better than my Spanish) almost every time they reply in Spanish. Perhaps there's a conspiracy afoot. Actually, it's because they assume foreigners don't bother to learn Catalan and that I would prefer to talk in Spanish. Very self deprecating in general.


I guess if they know you're foreign, they wouldn't expect you to speak Catalan, but I look Spanish, and back before I lost most of my language ability, I sounded Spanish as well. Maybe that's why.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> Barcelona has 22 Michelin starred restaurants, Valencia 4 or 5, Madrid about 9. World renowned chef Ferran Adrià of El Bulli fame has protégéd many excellent chefs who have opened their own restaurants. I presume you ate on the tourist trail, you have my sympathy, but more fool you.


You mean there's still somewhere in Barcelona that isn't on the tourist trail? 

Madrid didn't have any Michelin starred restaurants until a few years ago when David Muñoz got going. Up until then nobody bothered. The only difference it has made is that there are now a few expensive restaurants with Michelin stars, and the city is now on some gastro-trail followed by a few well-to-do bucket-listers. There probably is a slight trickle down effect, as others try to get in on the act, but that's about it. The Michelin stars don't really reflect the quality of food that is served by restaurants in the city in general.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Chopera said:


> You mean there's still somewhere in Barcelona that isn't on the tourist trail?
> 
> Madrid didn't have any Michelin starred restaurants until a few years ago when David Muñoz got going. Up until then nobody bothered. The only difference it has made is that there are now a few expensive restaurants with Michelin stars, and the city is now on some gastro-trail followed by a few well-to-do bucket-listers. There probably is a slight trickle down effect, as others try to get in on the act, but that's about it. The Michelin stars don't really reflect the quality of food that is served by restaurants in the city in general.



Sorry to disappoint you guys and girls. I don't dine at Michelin star restaurants...I love my curries 

We are good at moving off topic aren't we? :juggle:


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

You mentioned in your original post that you wanted to avoid racism if possible. There are some places in Spain where racism remains rife, rather sadly. About 40 minutes from Malaga (heading east) is a town called Torrox Pueblo. A friend of mine is from Sudan and she is very black. She lives in the pueblo and has never had a single racist remark made to her. Quite the opposite, in fact. Practically everyone in the town knows her or wants to know her. Sometimes we might have coffee in the town square for a chat but it is constantly interrupted by Spaniards saying hello to her. So, on that particular front I would have to say that Malaga is a very good option especially as it ticks so many of your boxes.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

thrax said:


> You mentioned in your original post that you wanted to avoid racism if possible. There are some places in Spain where racism remains rife, rather sadly. About 40 minutes from Malaga (heading east) is a town called Torrox Pueblo. A friend of mine is from Sudan and she is very black. She lives in the pueblo and has never had a single racist remark made to her. Quite the opposite, in fact. Practically everyone in the town knows her or wants to know her. Sometimes we might have coffee in the town square for a chat but it is constantly interrupted by Spaniards saying hello to her. So, on that particular front I would have to say that Malaga is a very good option especially as it ticks so many of your boxes.


Glad to hear that, one less thing to worry about then!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nimtree said:


> Sorry to disappoint you guys and girls. I don't dine at Michelin star restaurants...I love my curries
> 
> We are good at moving off topic aren't we? :juggle:


It's a forum speciality


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Helenameva said:


> Barcelona has 22 Michelin starred restaurants, Valencia 4 or 5, Madrid about 9. World renowned chef Ferran Adrià of El Bulli fame has protégéd many excellent chefs who have opened their own restaurants. I presume you ate on the tourist trail, you have my sympathy, but more fool you.


Well, not really *fool*. When the purpose of the visit is to spend a weekend with friends who are there to see the sights and experience the nightlife, then the tourist trail is where I am going to be. I've worked in Barcelona several times so I am well aware of what is available elsewhere. And on that... lots of crappy tapas bars with pre-cooked ****e on the counter ready for a dip in some fat when a customer walks in.

Thanks for pointing out that there are 22 expensive pretentious restaurants to be "enjoyed"


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

stefig said:


> but in everyday life, I'm looking for a decent, reasonably priced meal.


Good luck with that in Barca!

I really was disappointed with the food there. It didn't used to be so, and sadly, the best meal I had was in a French restaurant. And that's hard for me to admit!


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Ok, small update, I booked tickets for Malaga for January 2016 and will be spending a week working from Malaga in last week of January. It would give me a feel of what to expect in that city / nearby towns. Very cheap flights available in winter (i.e. even in non holiday season just £35 each way..I am pleasantly surprised)

Flight booked for Valencia in February, just to spend 3 days to get a feel of the places and nearby areas. Slightly expensive( £42 each way)

What next, feel like giving a go to Canary Island as well, no harm in trying I guess! Don't know which canary island to be precise. Suggestions welcome


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

If you like city life - then Las Palmas in Gran Canaria - it's really good. I found Santa Cruz de Tenerife a bit rubbish - even though there is culturally more going on in Tenerife than Gran Canaria, Las Palmas feels more cosmopilitan as a city. The Tenerife beaches are either black sand or fake, but there is perhaps more to do there as an island.

Myself - I wouldn't choose to live in the Canaries -despite the amazing weather. Too remote for me and quite insular. The flights may be cheap these days - but its still a 3-4 hour flight. I live in Valencia and the flight for me is 3 hours to get there!!


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## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

I might as well chuck in my regular bombshell to this thread? 

You sound like somebody who understands the financial & social implications of moving to the right place? With that in mind, buy a shoebox (studio/flat) as near to London as possible and look again at Spain in 12 months time. By then, you'll have and extra 10-15% of financial clout to purchase.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

LDN2ESP said:


> I might as well chuck in my regular bombshell to this thread?
> 
> You sound like somebody who understands the financial & social implications of moving to the right place? With that in mind, buy a shoebox (studio/flat) as near to London as possible and look again at Spain in 12 months time. By then, you'll have and extra 10-15% of financial clout to purchase.


But prices in Spain will quite possibly have gone up


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## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But prices in Spain will quite possibly have gone up



Possibly? But no where near as much than in and around London?

I held off buying in Spain during last spring and now have an extra £60k to spend in the coming months ... I kid you not. Dare I say it's commonsense to hold off as long as possible before making the plunge.

To be honest, I'm getting nervous about getting off the gravy train ... Oh well. Keep saying "sunny, sunny, sunny" ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

LDN2ESP said:


> Possibly? But no where near as much than in and around London?
> 
> I held off buying in Spain during last spring and now have an extra £60k to spend in the coming months ... I kid you not.


OK 60,000 pounds has convinced me.
Just let me know if you have trouble spending it...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

LDN2ESP said:


> Possibly? But no where near as much than in and around London?
> 
> I held off buying in Spain during last spring and now have an extra £60k to spend in the coming months ... I kid you not. Dare I say it's commonsense to hold off as long as possible before making the plunge.
> 
> To be honest, I'm getting nervous about getting off the gravy train ... Oh well. Keep saying "sunny, sunny, sunny" ...


You could easily buy a good house for £60k in Spain.


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## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> You could easily buy a good house for £60k in Spain.


Did I mention three kids, one of which wants a home buying deposit for her whilst she continues to work in London ... That's why I'm hanging on for as long as possible.

Bank of Dad & Mum ...:juggle:


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

LDN2ESP said:


> I might as well chuck in my regular bombshell to this thread?
> 
> You sound like somebody who understands the financial & social implications of moving to the right place? With that in mind, buy a shoebox (studio/flat) as near to London as possible and look again at Spain in 12 months time. By then, you'll have and extra 10-15% of financial clout to purchase.


Thanks, its a sensible suggestion but I don't want to create a bond in a country (UK) where actually don't want to live.

If required, I can easily rent in UK and I would get more bang for my buck and my own place in Europe for 60K (Spain / Italy / Greece).

Even if I return to India, I wil have a place in Europe to holiday/live rent free. I dont want to take mortgages and be a slave to that for couple of decades, does this make sense? I can buy a property in Spain for 60K cash.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

I dont know what forum members think about property prices in India, but trust me, for GBP 60K, we cant even get a decent flat in Indian Cities, where pollution, crime, law enforcement etc problems are there.

So, by comparison, a property in Spain, within the EU, Blue sky, Mediterranean Sea, and proximity to UK isnt that bad choice I would say.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

LDN2ESP said:


> Possibly? But no where near as much than in and around London?
> 
> I held off buying in Spain during last spring and now have an extra £60k to spend in the coming months ... I kid you not. Dare I say it's commonsense to hold off as long as possible before making the plunge.
> 
> To be honest, I'm getting nervous about getting off the gravy train ... Oh well. Keep saying "sunny, sunny, sunny" ...


You don't have to sell UK property in order to move to Spain.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

LDN2ESP said:


> Did I mention three kids, one of which wants a home buying deposit for her whilst she continues to work in London ... That's why I'm hanging on for as long as possible.
> 
> Bank of Dad & Mum ...:juggle:


Bad, Bad move. Don't sub them beyond giving them a start, otherwise you will never get them off the books. SWMBO's former employer has four daughters (three are married) and they still come on the ear'ole for money. My sister's three daughters are the same and my sister is a pensioner (OAP + police widow's) and often has to come to me (also a pensioner) with the begging bowl when her daughters collectively are pulling in about £100k p.a. I am the poorest (income-wise) of the lot and we manage by being careful and not splashing money about (mrypg calls it being frugal.)


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Chopera said:


> You don't have to sell UK property in order to move to Spain.


I just don't want to create an bond where I don't see myself in the future.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

nimtree said:


> I just don't want to create an bond where I don't see myself in the future.


I understand it doesn't apply to your situation. LDN2ESP seemed to imply that they were holding off their move because they didn't want to sell up while their London property was going up in value, and I pointed out that they didn't have to.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Bad, Bad move. Don't sub them beyond giving them a start, otherwise you will never get them off the books. SWMBO's former employer has four daughters (three are married) and they still come on the ear'ole for money. My sister's three daughters are the same and my sister is a pensioner (OAP + police widow's) and often has to come to me (also a pensioner) with the begging bowl when her daughters collectively are pulling in about £100k p.a. I am the poorest (income-wise) of the lot and we manage by being careful and not splashing money about (mrypg calls it being frugal.)


Unfortunately the prices of London property require about a €40k deposit for a first time buyer, based on a deposit of 10%. And that assumes they earn enough for a 90% mortgage. With rents, student loans, etc it is practically impossible for many young people to save that kind of money fast enough to afford the deposit before prices shoot up again. So these days giving your kids a start includes paying their deposit. People can blame the bankers, blame the boomers if they like, but this is the situation many young people are in, and they didn't create it.


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