# Dr and family seek second home in Mexico City -advice?



## DrDave (Oct 22, 2013)

Hi

I'm a physician with a 3 kids all under 8 years old. We really love Mexico, we think it is a good place for our family. All of us have some level of spanish speaking ability.

We have traveled all over the country and really enjoy Mexico City the most - despite all the crowding, traffic, pollution - it has an intense romance and energy that we have not seen elsewhere. 

We wanted some advice from you wise people.

- We would like to buy a home (house or condo) in either Polanco, Coyoacan or Condesa that would be safe (we would not stand out - we are not rich) that would cost about $500,000 or so and that would be good for our kids and not cause us too much stress. Any recommendations where we should look? We want to be in a stimulating area where we can retreat but also be right in the middle of things. To this end, we really like Coyoacan but it doesn't have anything but houses that might be too expensive. We aren't crazy about Polanco, but it seems very safe but too busy. However, I feel Polanco would be a place where my wife and kids could be alone in. We like Condesa but aren't sure about safety. Any recommendations where we would get the best value?

- Are condos a good idea in Defe? I've read threads here about how in Mexico, Mexicans don't pay their HOA fees and the condos can be in disrepair. 

- We are interested in a good home but also a good investment, something that would be liquid and we could sell (hopefully with a decent appreciation) in the near future. 

- Owing a house seems high stress, therefore the condo idea. 

Please leave your thoughts, thank you!

Dr.Dave


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

I don’t think Polanco is very safe. Just my opinion. The concentration of wealth seems to attract violence, more than the other places you listed. I’m surprised you couldn‘t find something affordable in Coyoacán. Well, maybe it’s not so surprising. I”m certain affordable housing exists in Coyoacán, but it’s not so surprising that you couldn’t find it: the reason is that if you search online, you only find the high end. More affordable housing needs to be searched for in the flesh; advertisements for this sector of the market will probably only appear in local newspapers and signs posted in the street.

Also, consider Villa Coapa or Tepepan. There are probably many other areas like these around the city, but I mention these two because I live nearby and I know them. They’re not close to the center of the city, but they are home to lot of shopping (especially in the former), a lot of schools, and a lot of middle class residential areas– lots and lots of horizontal condos.


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## DrDave (Oct 22, 2013)

thank you Maesonna for your excellent response.

Is Polanco really less safe than Coyoacan and Condesa?? Wow, very surprising with the density of security guards and police officers there?

Is it the case that the online listings I see through the internet will be more expensive than relatively identical listings in the same places that are not posted online but rather only advertised locally? What I'm asking is - are the online prices inflated compared to street prices? Some of the prices I see suggest Defe is overpriced.


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

500,000 dollars or pesos? Huge difference! 

I too love Mexico City. If it wasn't for the whole fiador thing I am sure that is where I would be. If you are talking dollars, and I guess you are, I would never consider dropping half a million USD into anything, housing included, in Mexico. If you are talking 500,000 pesos I can't see you finding anything decent in the areas you are talking about for that price. I would consider renting a furnished short term flat, at a higher rate for awhile while you look for a place if I was you.


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## DrDave (Oct 22, 2013)

yes 500,00 USD not pesos. 

what is the 'fiador' thing? 

why would you not put substantial money into mexico? it seems real estate in defe is appreciating and now with mortgages available, the market will be more liquid. 


mexico seems to be a country on the rise, the crime problem is in the border areas and among drug traffickers no? am curious about your thoughts?


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

As I mentioned in my first comment, it’s my _opinion_ that Polanco is less safe. This is based on my impressions from what I read in the news. That’s my answer to your question, ”Is Polanco really less safe?” My guess that you see more security there because there’s more $$$ to protect.

As I stated above, “if you search online, you only find the high end”. In other words, only the high sector of the real estate market is advertised online, for the most part. 

Renting before buying would be well advised. It gives you a chance to experience living in an area and getting to know whether it suits you; and if not, you have a home base from which to venture out and investigate other areas and look for purchasing opportunities.

A _fiador_ is a guarantor often required by landlords for at least first-time renters (which would of course include newly-arrived foreigners). The _fiador_ must be a property owner. There are commercial _fiador_ services that offer this service to renters. I don’t know how feasible it is to use those.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Just remembered another area well recommended: Roma Sur.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

DrDave said:


> yes 500,00 USD not pesos.
> 
> what is the 'fiador' thing?
> 
> ...


If you want to rent a property in Mexico City, you usually need a fiador. A fiador is a resident of the city who is also a property owner. A fiador signs a document that obliges him (or her) to meet your financial obligations to your future landlord in case you fly the coop, so to speak.

Mortgages have always been available in Mexico, but they are hard to get and require lots of money down.

What is on the rise right now in Mexico is crime, sadly to say, and not just on the borders and among drug traffickers.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

"the crime problem is in the border areas and among drug traffickers no?"

Mexico seems to be the kidnap capitol of the world with 72 reported a day:

72 Kidnappings In Mexico Per Day, Council for Law and Human Rights Says


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

DrDave said:


> yes 500,00 USD not pesos.
> 
> _what is the 'fiador' thing?_
> 
> ...




We have lived here in Mexico for 13 years and love this country to the point we are becoming citizens but it can be a very violent country and corruption among authorities up and down the line is endemic amd the violence is not just limited to the borders nor simply among drug traffickers. Of course, the same thing could be said throughout the United States which is a cesspool of violence. Come on down but keep a low profile and leave the rose-colored glasses back at the place from which you are coming.

If you decide to come on down, welcome and I´m sure you and your family will like it here. 

Incidentally, I would not move more money down here than is required to, say, buy a property or a car and for every day working capital. The foreign exchange and sovereign risk is far too great no matter what return you are getting on your peso investments


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Spanish electro band Delorean kidnapped and held hostage by notorious Zetas drugs cartel after playing at a Mexican music festival | Mail Online

these are the kidnappings that usually go un reported:


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## DrDave (Oct 22, 2013)

We've made 25 trips to Mexico starting in 2001. 

We've been to Mexico City - 5 times, Cuernavaca, Oaxaca, Huatulco, Tepotzlan, PV, Cancun, Tulum, Acapulco, Ixtapa/Zih, Guadalajara, Chapala/Ajicic, Veracruz, Xalapa, Matamoros, Manzanillo, Costa Nayarit, Costa Allegre, Taxco, Puerto Escondido etc. Almost all our trips involved rental cars and extensive driving in rural and urban areas. 

I've never had a problem with safety but I appreciate that Mexico is dangerous, just like the USA. 

I believe in the future of the country, have friends who live in Mexico City, who I visit often, who are thriving and safe. I never mentioned needing financing or anything else. I'm just curious about what areas have great value for a family like mine with kids. 

I really like Coyoacan but don't know how to make it work without buying an intensive project like a home, also homes there are quite expensive. 

That leaves Condesa and Polanco. Roma sur is too urban for us. Polanco is urban but has Chapultepec and many families. 

Thank you for your positive thoughts.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> Spanish electro band Delorean kidnapped and held hostage by notorious Zetas drugs cartel after playing at a Mexican music festival | Mail Online these are the kidnappings that usually go un reported:


Come on, crime is much lower in Mexico than in the US


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## JoanneR2 (Apr 18, 2012)

DrDave said:


> We've made 25 trips to Mexico starting in 2001. We've been to Mexico City - 5 times, Cuernavaca, Oaxaca, Huatulco, Tepotzlan, PV, Cancun, Tulum, Acapulco, Ixtapa/Zih, Guadalajara, Chapala/Ajicic, Veracruz, Xalapa, Matamoros, Manzanillo, Costa Nayarit, Costa Allegre, Taxco, Puerto Escondido etc. Almost all our trips involved rental cars and extensive driving in rural and urban areas. I've never had a problem with safety but I appreciate that Mexico is dangerous, just like the USA. I believe in the future of the country, have friends who live in Mexico City, who I visit often, who are thriving and safe. I never mentioned needing financing or anything else. I'm just curious about what areas have great value for a family like mine with kids. I really like Coyoacan but don't know how to make it work without buying an intensive project like a home, also homes there are quite expensive. That leaves Condesa and Polanco. Roma sur is too urban for us. Polanco is urban but has Chapultepec and many families. Thank you for your positive thoughts.


I lived for a short while in Polanco when I arrived in the city and am now in Condesa. My company security briefing said that Polanco was more dangerous to walk around at night but I can't say that I ever felt threatened when I was there. I certainly find Condesa to be safe and feel comfortable walking around. However, it is sensible to be careful wherever you are. Coyoacan is lovely but , for me, too quiet and you need to use a car to get around more. Hope you find what you are looking for.


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## DrDave (Oct 22, 2013)

JoanneR2

great post, are you owning or renting in Condesa? 


do you know a good real estate agent i can talk to ?


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

kito1 said:


> I would consider renting a furnished short term flat, at a higher rate for awhile while you look for a place if I was you.


I might rent a while, too, before buying anything just because of the hassle of unloading it if I want to move to another city or even across town. Talking to the locals a while who are familiar with the real estate market would yield a lot of gems in terms of information about what's available and who to trust. But maybe that's because I'm pinned down right now trying to sell out in the US in order to make the final leap. 

It sounds like you and the whole family are geared up and ready for Mexico! So best of luck to all of you.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

The best advice you have been given, in my opinion - but based on thousands of similar posts, is to rent prior to buying so that you are not tied into a particular neighborhood or city that you decide is not really the best for you.

Houses are easy to buy but not too easy to sell, especially if you have paid ****** prices. Some sales take years to accomplish unless you want to take a considerable loss. Things are not the same in all countries.

If you read previous posts, and that is so simple to do, you will find numerous comments on the importance of renting before you buy or at least examining many locations before you buy. The reasons are numerous and they are all mentioned in previous posts, so I will not even attempt to enumerate them here.

Be aware that you are getting advice not only from expats but from people with extensive background knowledge. I only mention this to give you my observation of this forum and the advice that is offered.

Bottom line. Rent first, examine localities & then buy later! Why not? :der:


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## DrDave (Oct 22, 2013)

Detailman said:


> The best advice you have been given, in my opinion - but based on thousands of similar posts, is to rent prior to buying so that you are not tied into a particular neighborhood or city that you decide is not really the best for you.
> 
> Houses are easy to buy but not too easy to sell, especially if you have paid ****** prices. Some sales take years to accomplish unless you want to take a considerable loss. Things are not the same in all countries.
> 
> ...


Detailman,

Great post, very helpful. I should have said it before but it is a given that I will rent prior to buying (no question). We fully intend to rent in the places we consider for 2-3 weeks before buying. 

Ideally, whatever we buy we want to keep in the family for my kids then their kids. We believe in the longterm future of Mexico City. 

My question is - how do I avoid paying '****** prices' - I think online listings are all '****** prices' and the same listings on the street are lower in price, am I wrong?

Is there a site that lists homes in Condesa, Polanco or Coyoacan at non-****** prices?

Thanks!


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

DrDave said:


> I believe in the future of the country, have friends who live in Mexico City, who I visit often, who are thriving and safe. I never mentioned needing financing or anything else. I'm just curious about what areas have great value for a family like mine with kids.


My suggestion is that you discuss the matter with friends/contacts in the D.F. I've previously written on the topic, extensively in other discussions and won't be repeating that volume of information again. Sorry.

You're obviously well-seasoned as far as a Mexico-visitor goes. Good for you. About the areas which might be right: you're not going to find the answer here. 



> That leaves Condesa and Polanco. Roma sur is too urban for us. Polanco is urban but has Chapultepec and many families.


If you think Roma Sur is "too urban" than I don't know how you'd find Polanco and Condesa less so. But, to each his/her own definitions. 

There are so very many options from which to choose and I'll direct you to have a look at the colonias which straddle Avenida Insurgentes Sur - from the Insurgentes Metro glorieta on one end to UNAM on the other. The middle areas in that stretch can be very middle-class, nice and populated by many families. But remember that most of the D.F. is "urban".

But back to an earlier recommendation: have a serious talk with friends whom you've visited. Where do they live? Why do they live there? What do they say about that and other areas which they think would be suitable?

You may have to rent an apartment at first, say for the first year, to give yourself the opportunity to walk/drive about and learn more about the city, it's colonias and the plusses and minuses of each of the areas. Such determinations take time. Take a year to arrive at a long-term decision.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

DrDave said:


> Detailman,
> 
> Great post, very helpful. I should have said it before but it is a given that I will rent prior to buying (no question). We fully intend to rent in the places we consider for 2-3 weeks before buying.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a great plan, DrDave. 

The answer as to how to be avoid being taken advantage of is very simple: Mexican friends and time on the ground in the part of Mexico that interests you. Expats in the area will also tell you what they have learned. 

I have no doubt you will make many friends and catch on quickly to the ins and outs of the local real estate market. Unfortunately, I can't recommend any publications in the locations you mention, but no doubt others here can.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

DrDave said:


> My question is - how do I avoid paying '****** prices' - I think online listings are all '****** prices' and the same listings on the street are lower in price, am I wrong?
> 
> Is there a site that lists homes in Condesa, Polanco or Coyoacan at non-****** prices?
> 
> Thanks!


Not all online listings have "****** prices" though the areas you are looking at are fairly expensive places to live, whether you rent or buy. I suggest you check out these sites:

1. https://www.segundamano.mx/distrito-federal/renta_inmuebles?ca=11_s&l=0&md=th&q=&cg=1040&w=1

2. Departamento En Renta Distrito Federal

3. Vivanuncios Distrito Federal - DF - Anuncios clasificados gratis

Good luck!


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> Not all online listings have "****** prices" though the areas you are looking at are fairly expensive places to live, whether you rent or buy. I suggest you check out these sites:
> 
> 1. https://www.segundamano.mx/distrito-federal/renta_inmuebles?ca=11_s&l=0&md=th&q=&cg=1040&w=1
> 
> ...


Thank's from me, too, for these links, Isla.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Thank's from me, too, for these links, Isla.


You're very welcome, and good luck to you too!


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

*Maybe I missed something?*



maesonna said:


> Just remembered another area well recommended: Roma Sur.


We have friends who live in Roma Sur and we have spent considerable time in the area visiting. I like the area, but it's hardly comparable to Coyoacán in attractiveness. It seems pretty much middle to upper middle class but visually, mostly not that attractive. Maybe I missed something?


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

DrDave,

You are getting some good advice. With repetition being the mother of retention I will again say the following.

A few weeks renting would not normally be enough time to: (1) determine the best area to live in and whether it will fill most of your families needs; (2) get a better handle on Mexican prices versus ****** prices by searching out and talking to other well connected Mexican contacts or even new friends that you make once you are here; and (3) look around neighborhoods for Mexican "For Sale" signs.

You may be an exception to the case and if so that is wonderful. But keep in mind the old saying: "Marry in haste and repent at leisure."

In this case you are marrying into a $500,000 purchase and if you are carried away with the ecstasy of your first meeting you may have an opportunity to either live with the situation or spend considerable time extricating yourself from the "marriage".

I have seen this in both relationships and real estate. What can I say? To be forewarned is to be forearmed. I truly hope for the best for you.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

DrDave said:


> thank you Maesonna for your excellent response.
> 
> Is Polanco really less safe than Coyoacan and Condesa?? Wow, very surprising with the density of security guards and police officers there?
> 
> Is it the case that the online listings I see through the internet will be more expensive than relatively identical listings in the same places that are not posted online but rather only advertised locally? What I'm asking is - are the online prices inflated compared to street prices? Some of the prices I see suggest Defe is overpriced.


Polanco is a safe place if you don't show off, same as every City in the world

Prices in the internet as well as "street prices " are a bit high due to the negotiation that has to take place before buying. I would suggest you to buy the best property you can afford, trying to keep it commercial and do not try to be a magician and see into the future, don't take risks


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