# Importing a car for <6 month stay



## Biochemlab (Nov 18, 2017)

Hi everyone!

First, let me say thank you to all the contributions you all make to this forum. You all create great value for people like me. 

I've been plotting a 5 - 6 month trip to Germany. A big part of this trip for me is wanting to drive my own car all over the place, including other western European countries. I've been considering buying a new porsche and doing the euro-delivery program, which would solve this... But, the car I want is available in the US with under 10,000 miles on it for $35k less... $35k is a lot of money to me and would likely pay for my whole trip to Europe...

So, can I do it? How do I begin researching this, including cost. 

Alternatively, I would also VERY happily buy a slightly used German car and drive it around... But I'd want to import it to the US. Any tips on that? Would this be better since I'd only have to ship it once? Or will making a German car US legal be the bigger problem? 

Or is all of this stupid expensive? People import cars... Right? 

Thank you again for any help or direction.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Honestly, these days people don't import cars all that often. The big advantage of going through one of those Euro-delivery programs is that you get a car that will meet the specs in both Europe and the country you're taking it back to. Even with European brands you'll find that they make the cars specifically for the country in which they are going to be sold.

This website might get you started on the issues involved with bringing a car back to the US from Europe: www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car
Cheers,
Bev


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

One issue has nothing to do with cars. Unless you have an EU/EEA passport, you can only spend 90 days out of 180 in the Schengen area. For 5-6 months you'd need to establish an address in Germany and apply for a residence permit to stay longer. Not that people don't get away with doing it on the black, but legally it's a bit tricky to arrange a half- or full-year grand tour all over Europe. So be aware of that, first of all.

Generally yes, importing cars is rare because in addition to shipping and customs there are all kinds of crazy homologation rules and associated costs. However, for a shorter visit it might be possible to drive around without registration of the vehicle in Germany, though I have no idea what sort of paperwork you'd need to get it off the boat and through the port. Also I have no idea what you'd need to do for insurance.

Buying in Germany and shipping back has its own problems - the car would likely need modifications to be road-legal in the US - plus I don't expect it's straightforward to deal with the rest of the bureaucracy as a short-term visitor. The advantage of overseas delivery is that your car is built to North American spec and shipping it home is included in the price, plus the manufacturer will arrange license, registration and insurance.

This may not be an issue for you, but if I remember correctly, as a resident of Germany you can only use a foreign driving license for 6 months before you are required to obtain the German version.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/einreiseundaufenthalt/visabestimmungen-node
Schengenvisa allows up to 180 days, require proof of medical insurance and 30k funds.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Http://www.zoll.de/DE/Privatpersone.../voruebergehende-verwendung-von-kfz_node.html
It looks like temporary import as tourist will not work and you do not meet resident requirements.



If you are dreaming of full throttle on the autobahn - that is history.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The site you cite does say this about a Schengen visa:


> für kurzfristige Aufenthalte im Schengen-Gebiet von höchstens 90 Tagen je 180 Tagen.


Generally speaking a "Schengen Visa" refers to a short stay visa that allows up to 90 days in Schengen countries within a 180 day period. It's actually a 90 day "visa", not one for 180 days.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

twostep said:


> https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/einreiseundaufenthalt/visabestimmungen-node
> Schengenvisa allows up to 180 days, require proof of medical insurance and 30k funds.


From the link:

Alle übrigen Ausländer sind für Aufenthalte in Deutschland grundsätzlich visumpflichtig. Für Besuchsaufenthalte bis zu 90 Tagen je Zeitraum von 180 Tagen benötigen Angehörige der Staaten kein Visum, für die die Europäische Gemeinschaft die Visumpflicht aufgehoben hat.​The short translation: foreigners can visit Germany for 90 days out of every 180 but citizens of some countries are not required to have a visa.

So it's 90 days out of every 180, not up to 180 days. Note also that a US or Canadian citizen wishing to visit Germany for up to 90 days can simply arrive without visa and is not required to provide proof of health insurance or funds.

Not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's wrong.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

twostep said:


> Http://www.zoll.de/DE/Privatpersone.../voruebergehende-verwendung-von-kfz_node.html
> It looks like temporary import as tourist will not work and you do not meet resident requirements.


Whereas here, the page you linked to states:

Befindet sich Ihr Wohnsitz außerhalb der EU, können Sie Ihr nicht in der EU zugelassenes Kraftfahrzeug abgabenfrei nach Deutschland einführen und verwenden. Dies ist in den Zollvorschriften wie auch dem Kraftfahrzeugsteuerrecht geregelt. Die Nutzungsdauer des Fahrzeugs ist auf sechs Monate begrenzt. ​
Short translation: a non-EU resident can import and use a non-EU registered vehicle free of charge for up to six months.

So it would seem to be possible. Presumably you can drive to Germany from, say, Turkey, and drive around in your Turkish-registered car for up to six months (or less if you are only allowed to stay for 90 days). In principle that should also be true of a US-registered car, but I have no idea how you get it off the boat and past customs.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Nononymous said:


> From the link:
> 
> Alle übrigen Ausländer sind für Aufenthalte in Deutschland grundsätzlich visumpflichtig. Für Besuchsaufenthalte bis zu 90 Tagen je Zeitraum von 180 Tagen benötigen Angehörige der Staaten kein Visum, für die die Europäische Gemeinschaft die Visumpflicht aufgehoben hat.​The short translation: foreigners can visit Germany for 90 days out of every 180 but citizens of some countries are not required to have a visa.
> 
> ...


Schengenvisa covers 180 consecutive days.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Unless Germany has some peculiar form of "Schengenvisa" I don't think that's the case.

According to the EU rules, a Schengen visa only covers travel in or a stay in one or more Schengen countries for 90 days in any 180 day period. Details here: https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/schengen_visa_en
Cheers,
Bev


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

twostep said:


> Schengenvisa covers 180 consecutive days.


There are Schengen visas that are valid for three days and there are Schengen visas that are valid for two years or more (those are rather rare). 

No matter how long the visa is valid for, the visa holder cannot stay more than 90 days in any rolling 180 days period.

Americans normally get a 'visa on arrival'. Same principle applies.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

twostep said:


> Schengenvisa covers 180 consecutive days.


Are you some sort of bot?

Trust me, for an American, Canadian or anyone else from the "privileged" non-EU countries, here's how it works:

You can spend 90 out of every 180 days in Germany as a visitor, without any form of visa, proof of health insurance or funds to support yourself. You arrive at the airport and show them your passport. That's it. You are a tourist.

If you want to stay longer than 90 days, you need to register your address with the local authorities then haul yourself to the nearest foreigners' office (Ausländerbehörde) and apply for a residence permit (Aufenhaltserlaubnis). At this point you will need to show proof of income or savings, health insurance, and so on. More importantly, you also need to have a reason for wanting to live in Germany - studying, working (with permission to do so) or academic research are the accepted grounds. Wishing to drive a slightly used Porsche up and down the Autobahn for six months, fun though that may be, is likely not an acceptable reason. Though if you get the right person on the right day, it could be a cheerful "Ja!" - individual officers have a fair bit of discretion, which is why I always tell people that speaking German and being polite, charming, and decently dressed is a good way improve your chances at the Ausländerbehörde.

The nice thing about privileged country status is that you don't have to do anything prior to departure, no visa is required. But you'd better be confident that you'll be granted permission to stay, otherwise your trip is cut short at 90 days. Therefore it may be advisable to go through a consulate beforehand if you are concerned that your application would be rejected.

I'm not the only one who's struggled with the problem of how to travel in the Schengen zone for more than 90 days, which clearly isn't that long for a frugal backpacker type. A two-second search reveals one of many articles on the subject: 

How to (Legally) Stay in Europe for More Than 90 Days

Finally, note that the term "Schengen visa" is constantly thrown around and seems to have multiple meanings, which does not help to reduce confusion. 

This all quite apart from how one might bring an US-registered vehicle into Germany for a temporary stay. (I saw an enormous and outrageously cool Swiss-plated off-road camper in Canada last summer, so it's clearly possible coming this way. I assume they'd shipped it over and were doing the Alaska to Patagonia thing.)


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## Biochemlab (Nov 18, 2017)

Thank you all so much for the input. I was told, by maybe not the most reliable source, that I could stay 180 days without problem. I'll look into that more. 

It also appears that bringing a US spec car to Europe and back is not a good idea. I didn't think so... But worth asking! 

The one thing I haven't seen discussed in much detail is buying a used German car and bringing it back to the US. I'll go do some Google searches. But, does anyone know of a place I can do searches for model specific changes that need to be made? 

If it helps to understand my situation, I've recently sold my small business and have a couple hundred $k I can show in "savings", have US health insurance and don't mind buying German insurance, and am working on writing a book on new economic models that maybe I could count as art, self-employment, or study. Would love any thoughts you have on that, if any. 

Thanks again!


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Biochemlab said:


> Thank you all so much for the input. I was told, by maybe not the most reliable source, that I could stay 180 days without problem. I'll look into that more.


That was not a reliable source. It's 90 days without problem, beyond that you need a residence permit of some sort.



> It also appears that bringing a US spec car to Europe and back is not a good idea. I didn't think so... But worth asking!


Yes and no. A permanent import of the car, no, terrible idea. Driving around for 3-6 months and leaving again might be possible. I don't think the shipping is actually that expensive. But you'd need to talk to shipping companies and German customs bureaucracy. I suspect it's not simple and straightforward.



> The one thing I haven't seen discussed in much detail is buying a used German car and bringing it back to the US. I'll go do some Google searches. But, does anyone know of a place I can do searches for model specific changes that need to be made?


It might be very difficult for all kinds of reasons. Start with the federal DOT I suppose. I suspect there are some pretty steep restrictions against importing newish used vehicles on both tax/duty and regulatory grounds.

The advantages of overseas delivery, if you can afford it, are: (1) new vehicle under warranty; (2) built to US spec so no homologation issues; (3) shipping, duty and all that included in the price; (4) special temporary insurance and registration arranged by manufacturer; (5) sometimes there are fun perks like a night in a hotel or a factory tour and key ceremony (doubtless with a glass of cheap room-temperature bubbly, if it's Germany). In other words, you might find that extra $35k to be a reasonable cost both for what you get and for what you don't need to deal with.



> If it helps to understand my situation, I've recently sold my small business and have a couple hundred $k I can show in "savings", have US health insurance and don't mind buying German insurance, and am working on writing a book on new economic models that maybe I could count as art, self-employment, or study. Would love any thoughts you have on that, if any.


That is the approach to take. Call it "research". Show that you have funds to support yourself and suitable health coverage (buy expat travel cover to top up your US insurance) and lay out a plan for what you want to do and how you plan to do it. You will still need to find a place to live where you can register the address, but for six months you'd need a base anyway. I might see about going through a consulate first to obtain a visa, because you don't want to have your trip cut short if you are rejected. Also, in my experience showing evidence that you plan to leave again - a return ticket (and shipping date for the car if you go that route) or a job waiting at home - means that you're not trying to stay forever, and they should be relatively open to letting you hang around for an extra three months.

Best of luck.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Biochemlab said:


> Thank you all so much for the input. I was told, by maybe not the most reliable source, that I could stay 180 days without problem. I'll look into that more.


What exactly have you been told?

It kind of depends on where exactly you want to be during these 180 days.

The EU? Schengen? Europe as per geographical definition?

Schengen lets Americans stay 90 days within 180 rolling days. The UK is part of the EU (for the time being) but not part of Schengen and Americans get a maximum of six months stay there. 

Then there are European countries that are neither part of Schengen nor the EU.

So, in theory, you could spend 2 months in Schengen, then spend 3 months in the UK and/or Ireland and again a month in the Schengen area. Or explore some non-EU, non-Schengen countries.

At least from a visa point of view. How practical/affordable it is to stay in hotels or short term holiday lets is another thing but money may well be no object


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