# Form Spain-Individual Double Taxation



## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

I recently phoned the HMRC to check a few things before I move in 2 weeks. They said I need to complete a Double Taxation Form. I have downloaded the form but it asks for details about submission of the last tax return in Spain. Obviously I have not submitted one yet as I am not even there yet. I assume that this form is something I have to do when I submit a tax return in Spain then? When would I have to submit my first tax return in Spain?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

chris&vicky said:


> I recently phoned the HMRC to check a few things before I move in 2 weeks. They said I need to complete a Double Taxation Form. I have downloaded the form but it asks for details about submission of the last tax return in Spain. Obviously I have not submitted one yet as I am not even there yet. I assume that this form is something I have to do when I submit a tax return in Spain then? When would I have to submit my first tax return in Spain?



OK, this is because the UK wont make you non tax resident until they know that you are paying tax elsewhere. If they didn't, then everyone would try it.

We did this some years back. We downloaded the forms (iirc, one in English, one in Spanish), and took our Spanish tax returns with them to Hacienda main office in Valencia. there they took copies of our NIE, passports, and took the forms off us. A while later we received them all back stamped and with a certificate, and sent them to HMRC UK. It took about 6 weeks iirc, but we then received non resident tax certificates.

It depends when you move. We moved to Spain October 2006, and didn't need to put in a return until April 2008 for the 2006/2007 tax year.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

chris&vicky said:


> I recently phoned the HMRC to check a few things before I move in 2 weeks. They said I need to complete a Double Taxation Form. I have downloaded the form but it asks for details about submission of the last tax return in Spain. Obviously I have not submitted one yet as I am not even there yet. I assume that this form is something I have to do when I submit a tax return in Spain then? When would I have to submit my first tax return in Spain?


I thought we had discussed this previously. Your first return will have to be done by June 2015. At that stage, you can then complete the form, although I think I said I would just apply for a certifcate of fiscal residency, and send that with the form. Then, and only then, will HMRC allow any income that is not taxable in the UK be paid gross, and refund any tax that has been paid. It takes about 2 months to get a refund, but there won't be problem. Note, this doesn't apply to interest income, until the new DTA comes into force, or your rental income, as I think you know, but you can have that paid gross as a non-resident landlord, but then you need to submit a self assessment each year.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> OK, this is because the UK wont make you non tax resident until they know that you are paying tax elsewhere. If they didn't, then everyone would try it.
> 
> We did this some years back. We downloaded the forms (iirc, one in English, one in Spanish), and took our Spanish tax returns with them to Hacienda main office in Valencia. there they took copies of our NIE, passports, and took the forms off us. A while later we received them all back stamped and with a certificate, and sent them to HMRC UK. It took about 6 weeks iirc, but we then received non resident tax certificates.
> 
> It depends when you move. We moved to Spain October 2006, and didn't need to put in a return until April 2008 for the 2006/2007 tax year.


Sorry not sure I follow can you clarify? 

I am moving this month so will not need to submit a tax return until April 2015?

In April 2015 I need to complete the double taxation form and take it with my tax return? The form has to be completed in English and Spanish?

Does this mean I am tax resident in both UK and Spain until after April 2015 when I get a certificate that can be sent to HMRC? I don't get that bit? 

My tax paid in UK for 2014/5 (remainder of 2013?) can still be offset against tax paid in Spain even though I do not get non-resident tax certificates until after April 2015? And tax years are not the same so not sure how that works really.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

You have to be in Spain for six months until you are a tax resident, that will take you to 2014, you will complete a tax return of 2014 Jan 1st to Dec 31st, however you cannot do this until April 2015.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Hepa said:


> You have to be in Spain for six months until you are a tax resident, that will take you to 2014, you will complete a tax return of 2014 Jan 1st to Dec 31st, however you cannot do this until April 2015.


I do know that you have to be in Spain 6 months, although I thought it was 6 months in a calendar year. 

What I don't quite understand is how you offset any tax paid in UK as the Spanish tax year 2014 would be covered by the UK tax year 2013/4 and 2014/5, and also I cannot do my double taxation form until 2015 

I am not sure I am explaining myself well, but I know what I mean


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chris&vicky said:


> I do know that you have to be in Spain 6 months, although I thought it was 6 months in a calendar year.
> 
> What I don't quite understand is how you offset any tax paid in UK as the Spanish tax year 2014 would be covered by the UK tax year 2013/4 and 2014/5, and also I cannot do my double taxation form until 2015
> 
> I am not sure I am explaining myself well, but I know what I mean


it IS 6 months in a calendar year - Jan 1st to Dec 31st - & you won't be here for that long in 2013 - so it doesn't count....

for you, tax residency in Spain will start Jan 1st 2014, so that will be the first year you have to do a tax return for - between April/June 2015 - you have 6 months after the end of the tax year to submit your return

I have no clue how it works in the UK....so I can't comment on that bit!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

chris&vicky said:


> I do know that you have to be in Spain 6 months, although I thought it was 6 months in a calendar year.
> 
> What I don't quite understand is how you offset any tax paid in UK as the Spanish tax year 2014 would be covered by the UK tax year 2013/4 and 2014/5, and also I cannot do my double taxation form until 2015
> 
> I am not sure I am explaining myself well, but I know what I mean


The crossover of tax years is not complicated. For the Spanish tax year 2014 your income will be the income you received during 2014, some of which will be in the 2013/2014 UK tax year, and some of which will be in the 2014/2015 tax year. You know how much tax you have paid, even if you don't have a P60, which you may not, but you will either have a tax calculation from HMRC (both for 2013/4 and for 2014/5, or at least 2013/4 and your self assessment for 2014/5)because you don't need to submit your spanish return until June.. You just calculate the income, report it on your spanish return, and then show the tax you have paid ( on this amount with but allowances allocated proportionately).

The key thing to remember is that Spanish tax is self assessment, as is the UK, and you have to be able to provide evidence to support your return, if they ask you for evidence. I provided copies of pension slips showing tax deducted, which they accepted, but I also had HMRC tax calculations..

If you're computer literate, you could download the 2013 Padre (Spanish tax program) and play around with it.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

CapnBilly said:


> The crossover of tax years is not complicated. For the Spanish tax year 2014 your income will be the income you received during 2014, some of which will be in the 2013/2014 UK tax year, and some of which will be in the 2014/2015 tax year. You know how much tax you have paid, even if you don't have a P60, which you may not, but you will either have a tax calculation from HMRC (both for 2013/4 and for 2014/5, or at least 2013/4 and your self assessment for 2014/5)because you don't need to submit your spanish return until June.. You just calculate the income, report it on your spanish return, and then show the tax you have paid ( on this amount with but allowances allocated proportionately).
> 
> The key thing to remember is that Spanish tax is self assessment, as is the UK, and you have to be able to provide evidence to support your return, if they ask you for evidence. I provided copies of pension slips showing tax deducted, which they accepted, but I also had HMRC tax calculations..
> 
> If you're computer literate, you could download the 2013 Padre (Spanish tax program) and play around with it.


Thanks. Yea not bad on the PC so will give the program a try. You are very helpful, sometimes I ask the same thing, sorry, just a lot going on. Thanks again.


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