# Electrician quote



## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

I have just received a quote from a Spanish electrician to upgrade my electrical supply. It was for 650 euros. We currently are contracted for 3.4 KW Potencia, he told us that the supply was mono phase and needed to be three phase. The meter is five metres away in the basement, directly below our apartment and needed to change all the circuit breakers within the consumer unit( Fuse board) He told us it would take about a day and a half and the new equipment cost was 120 euros. On top of this endesa will need 285 euros to increase our contracta Potencia to 7 KW. So 935 euros! Seems excessive to me? Your valued input would be much appreciated, thank you.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Upgrading can be an expensive business - a lot of older houses need extensive updating to carry the heavier load. Why not get a couple more quotes to compare?

Are you certain you can't manage on 3.4 kW? Millions of people do, and the monthly charge is a lot cheaper!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

High flyer said:


> I have just received a quote from a Spanish electrician to upgrade my electrical supply. It was for 650 euros. We currently are contracted for 3.4 KW Potencia, he told us that the supply was mono phase and needed to be three phase. The meter is five metres away in the basement, directly below our apartment and needed to change all the circuit breakers within the consumer unit( Fuse board) He told us it would take about a day and a half and the new equipment cost was 120 euros. On top of this endesa will need 285 euros to increase our contracta Potencia to 7 KW. So 935 euros! Seems excessive to me? Your valued input would be much appreciated, thank you.


You can have up to 14.49kW on a mono-phase supply, so technically, you don't need to go to three phase, which is for 15kW and over.

See here: https://www.endesaclientes.com/blog/instalacion-monofasica-trifasica

However, that doesn't mean to say that you don't need to upgrade the cable from the dist board to your main fuse in order to get the boletín which your electricity provider will require.

We upgraded exactly that about 6 or 7 years ago (only the cables / connectors and cut off switches, not upgrading to three phase) and it cost us about 400€ from memory (with invoice and IVA) and including the boletín.

So, Does 650€ seem excessive to go to three phase? No, not really.

Do you need to go three phase? No, not really.

If you have to upgrade the cable anyway, is it worth going to three phase even if it is not technically required? Not so sure TBH, there probably are some benefits but I wouldn't want to comment as it would be speculation on my part. 

I would ask him for a quote to upgrade without going three phase and see what he says.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Upgrading can be an expensive business - a lot of older houses need extensive updating to carry the heavier load. Why not get a couple more quotes to compare?
> 
> Are you certain you can't manage on 3.4 kW? Millions of people do, and the monthly charge is a lot cheaper!


Thanks for the reply Alcalania, the apartment block is only seventeen years old, I quess it’s the original electrical installation? I don’t know how people manage with such a low supply as 3.4 KW? Air con on, kettle on, switch the TV on and, down it all goes. Yes I appreciate there’s a cost involved just thought the figure quoted for a couple of days work was a bit excessive that was all!


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Overandout said:


> You can have up to 14.49kW on a mono-phase supply, so technically, you don't need to go to three phase, which is for 15kW and over.
> 
> See here: https://www.endesaclientes.com/blog/instalacion-monofasica-trifasica
> 
> ...


Thanks overandout, will talk to him then, just want to upgrade to 7KW the cheapest and safest way I can. So three phase not really needed?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

High flyer said:


> Thanks for the reply Alcalania, the apartment block is only seventeen years old, I quess it’s the original electrical installation? I don’t know how people manage with such a low supply as 3.4 KW? Air con on, kettle on, switch the TV on and, down it all goes. Yes I appreciate there’s a cost involved just thought the figure quoted for a couple of days work was a bit excessive that was all!


We managed perfectly well in our old house with a 3.45kw supply until we moved to an all-electric apartment last year. We used butano gas for all cooking and almost all our heating there, and we didn't have air conditioning (and didn't need it, we still only used it 3 times for cooling during last summer, whereas we do use it for all our heating now). I have tripped our 5.75kw supply more times in the apartment (switching the kettle on when I was already using the oven, induction hob and microwave) than I ever did in the old house.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

We lived in our flat for years before upgrading with little problem. The main switch would only trip on occasions, e.g. air-con, oven and kettle all at the same time.

We upgraded when we moved out so that the tenant coming in wouldn't have the same issue though. As an owner you live with things that you wouldn't expect a tenant to put up with!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

High flyer said:


> Thanks for the reply Alcalania, the apartment block is only seventeen years old, I quess it’s the original electrical installation? I don’t know how people manage with such a low supply as 3.4 KW? Air con on, kettle on, switch the TV on and, down it all goes. Yes I appreciate there’s a cost involved just thought the figure quoted for a couple of days work was a bit excessive that was all!


People manage fine, because they cook with gas and use fans instead of air con. Few Spaniards use electric kettles, and you can always use a stove-top one. A TV doesn't use much at all.

We've got 4.6kW and during this cold spell we are using the air-con plus an oil-filled radiator for heating, along with an electric towel rail in the bathroom and an electric clothes airer. I rarely use the oven and I don't do ironing. It hasn't tripped for years.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Overandout said:


> We lived in our flat for years before upgrading with little problem. The main switch would only trip on occasions, e.g. air-con, oven and kettle all at the same time.
> 
> We upgraded when we moved out so that the tenant coming in wouldn't have the same issue though. As an owner you live with things that you wouldn't expect a tenant to put up with!


That’s what I want to avoid! Just would like to be able to use appliances when we want without the fear of the dreaded trip Out!


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> People manage fine, because they cook with gas and use fans instead of air con. Few Spaniards use electric kettles, and you can always use a stove-top one. A TV doesn't use much at all.
> 
> We've got 4.6kW and during this cold spell we are using the air-con plus an oil-filled radiator for heating, along with an electric towel rail in the bathroom and an electric clothes airer. I rarely use the oven and I don't do ironing. It hasn't tripped for years.


We are looking at around 7KW contracta Potencia, that should be more than enough for our useage? The original question was, is 900 plus euros a bit high for a Spanish electrician( Accreditated) to make the nesaccary changes, mono phase or not?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

High flyer said:


> We are looking at around 7KW contracta Potencia, that should be more than enough for our useage? The original question was, is 900 plus euros a bit high for a Spanish electrician( Accreditated) to make the nesaccary changes, mono phase or not?


We are a family of 5 with aircon, pool pump, hob, oven, kettle, fridges, freezers, microwave etc. and survive just fine on 5.65kW

I think 7 might be too much.

I was told that to get from 3.4 to 7 takes two jumps and therefore two sets of costs by your supplier - may not be correct, I don't know.

You certainly do not need 3-phase.


The cost seems about right as he will also have to produce a boletin (regulation /safety certificate) which itself can be a couple of hundred euros.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

snikpoh said:


> We are a family of 5 with aircon, pool pump, hob, oven, kettle, fridges, freezers, microwave etc. and survive just fine on 5.65kW
> 
> I think 7 might be too much.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply, I will go for the lower figure as you are finding that okay and their are only two of us most of the time.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> The cost seems about right as he will also have to produce a boletin (regulation /safety certificate) which itself can be a couple of hundred euros.


So High Flyer should check what exactly is included in the electricians pricing - certificate or no certificate


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So High Flyer should check what exactly is included in the electricians pricing - certificate or no certificate


Thank you, I will check!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

High flyer said:


> Thank you, I will check!


... also, the charge from Endesa should be a lot less if you aren't going for 3-phase. 

Ibedrola charge something like 30€ for an upgrade of power.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

High flyer said:


> Thank you for your reply, I will go for the lower figure as you are finding that okay and their are only two of us most of the time.


There are only two of us, and as I said earlier I have tripped the supply a few times by switching the kettle on whilst using the oven, hob and microwave at the same time, with a potentcia of 5.75kw. You'll need to be especially careful about the kettle and avoid buying one of those rapid boil ones which use over 3kw just on their own, although it's getting quite difficult to find a lower rated one. Powerful hairdryers are another thing to watch out for - my husband knows not to put the kettle on whilst I'm drying my hair!


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> There are only two of us, and as I said earlier I have tripped the supply a few times by switching the kettle on whilst using the oven, hob and microwave at the same time, with a potentcia of 5.75kw. You'll need to be especially careful about the kettle and avoid buying one of those rapid boil ones which use over 3kw just on their own, although it's getting quite difficult to find a lower rated one. Powerful hairdryers are another thing to watch out for - my husband knows not to put the kettle on whilst I'm drying my hair!


Back to the original plan then! At least 7KW. Although our saving grace is we heat our water by gas and the hob is gas also, not the oven that’s fan assisted and two air con compressors! Think 5.7 bit on the low side for us.


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## SandraP (Apr 23, 2014)

Snikpoh, iberdrola have quoted us a charge 110€ to upgrade our potencia from 3.3 to 5.something.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

High flyer said:


> Back to the original plan then! At least 7KW. Although our saving grace is we heat our water by gas and the hob is gas also, not the oven that’s fan assisted and two air con compressors! Think 5.7 bit on the low side for us.


Well, if money's no object ... but as I said earlier, we have all that and 4.6 is fine.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Well, if money's no object ... but as I said earlier, we have all that and 4.6 is fine.


It’s not about money being no object with all due respect, it’s a one off charge for some peace of mind. Couldn’t be doing with continually tripping.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

SandraP said:


> Snikpoh, iberdrola have quoted us a charge 110€ to upgrade our potencia from 3.3 to 5.something.


Does that include the boletin? What are your electrician charges?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So High Flyer should check what exactly is included in the electricians pricing - certificate or no certificate


Good point. We fell once, needed some work doing on a house and also a boletin. Used the electrician who maintained the street lights etc for the community so I asked them to do it and told them I need the certificate. Carried out whilst we were in UK. under supervision of a friend. Bill was around €500. When we got back there was no certificate in the paperwork. Called the Company and they said we cannot give it you will have to show the work sheets to someone who can issue it!

I did get my revenge though as I brought it up at the community AGM and it was agreed they had to use a company qualified to issue them.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Does that include the boletin? What are your electrician charges?


The quote from Iberdrola cannot include the issue of the boletín. They are the ones which need it, they don't issue it.

Many "electricians" cannot issue boletíns, but after completing the work, they "subcontract" the issue of the paperwork to an authorized electrician who, logically assumes the responsibility of certifying the other's work.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Overandout said:


> The quote from Iberdrola cannot include the issue of the boletín. They are the ones which need it, they don't issue it.
> 
> Many "electricians" cannot issue boletíns, but after completing the work, they "subcontract" the issue of the paperwork to an authorized electrician who, logically assumes the responsibility of certifying the other's work.


Yes, I have obtained two boletins, one for the old house and one for this apartment, and in neither case had the person whose name and official stamp was on the boletin ever been near the property.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Overandout said:


> The quote from Iberdrola cannot include the issue of the boletín. They are the ones which need it, they don't issue it.
> 
> Many "electricians" cannot issue boletíns, but after completing the work, they "subcontract" the issue of the paperwork to an authorized electrician who, logically assumes the responsibility of certifying the other's work.


The electrician we are using is employed by the project manager who is organising the refurbishment and is accredited, so able to issue the boletin also.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> Yes, I have obtained two boletins, one for the old house and one for this apartment, and in neither case had the person whose name and official stamp was on the boletin ever been near the property.


Of course not! Boletíns are issued in the bar round the corner!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> The quote from Iberdrola cannot include the issue of the boletín. They are the ones which need it, they don't issue it.
> 
> Many "electricians" cannot issue boletíns, but after completing the work, they "subcontract" the issue of the paperwork to an authorized electrician who, logically assumes the responsibility of certifying the other's work.


Iberdrola very often "issue" the boletin as they have electricians on their staff who do the inspection.

I would never even consider using an electrician who was not qualified and registered. My first question is always to see their paperwork and to ask if they can issue a boletin even if I don't require one. 

I NEVER employ non-Spanish electricians in Spain!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Overandout said:


> Of course not! Boletíns are issued in the bar round the corner!


Yes, had one of those too. Via the gardener's cousin


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

On a vaguely related issue, our town is experiencing power outages a dozen times a day, only for for a second or so, but enough to knock out the router, making it impossible to watch Netflix etc., and damaging other appliances. It's so bad it was on TV the other night. All sorts of businesses are affected, not least the dentist.

Endesa say it's because of migrating storks! They apparently cause short circuits and the outages occur when the supply switches from the primary to secondary power lines. I'm sure Alcalá isn't the only place with storks, has anyone else had this problem?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> On a vaguely related issue, our town is experiencing power outages a dozen times a day, only for for a second or so, but enough to knock out the router, making it impossible to watch Netflix etc., and damaging other appliances. It's so bad it was on TV the other night. All sorts of businesses are affected, not least the dentist.
> 
> Endesa say it's because of migrating storks! They apparently cause short circuits and the outages occur when the supply switches from the primary to secondary power lines. I'm sure Alcalá isn't the only place with storks, has anyone else had this problem?


We get occasional momentary power cuts like that, but certainly not a dozen times a day, maybe a couple of times a month. We don't have storks here! Sounds a bit "leaves on the line" kind of excuse to me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> On a vaguely related issue, our town is experiencing power outages a dozen times a day, only for for a second or so, but enough to knock out the router, making it impossible to watch Netflix etc., and damaging other appliances. It's so bad it was on TV the other night. All sorts of businesses are affected, not least the dentist.
> 
> Endesa say it's because of migrating storks! They apparently cause short circuits and the outages occur when the supply switches from the primary to secondary power lines. I'm sure Alcalá isn't the only place with storks, has anyone else had this problem?


No!
We used to get cuts when it rained a lot, but not any more. It's snowing here now, but we've still got the Lecky!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

When we first moved here it was common to get longer power cuts, sometimes a few hours, in very bad weather (thunderstorms or torrential rain, we don't do snow here!). Those don't happen now, but the kind that Alcalaina describes which only last for a second are quite a recent thing, haven't been happening for much more than a year.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> When we first moved here it was common to get longer power cuts, sometimes a few hours, in very bad weather (thunderstorms or torrential rain, we don't do snow here!). Those don't happen now, but the kind that Alcalaina describes which only last for a second are quite a recent thing, haven't been happening for much more than a year.


Yes, doesn't sound good, does it?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> When we first moved here it was common to get longer power cuts, sometimes a few hours, in very bad weather (thunderstorms or torrential rain, we don't do snow here!). Those don't happen now, but the kind that Alcalaina describes which only last for a second are quite a recent thing, haven't been happening for much more than a year.


Same here. I suspect blaming the poor storks is just an excuse for lack of investment in ageing infrastructure!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Same here. I suspect blaming the poor storks is just an excuse for lack of investment in ageing infrastructure!


We had similar problems for a while, not just the odd minute but also problems of low voltage. Was frustrating as it was out long enough to cut out all the settings and cooking time guidelines were useless.
Tuned out to be an out of date transformer in San Pedro but eventually was improved.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> On a vaguely related issue, our town is experiencing power outages a dozen times a day, only for for a second or so, but enough to knock out the router, making it impossible to watch Netflix etc., and damaging other appliances. It's so bad it was on TV the other night. All sorts of businesses are affected, not least the dentist.
> 
> Endesa say it's because of migrating storks! They apparently cause short circuits and the outages occur when the supply switches from the primary to secondary power lines. I'm sure Alcalá isn't the only place with storks, has anyone else had this problem?


Could be a genuine issue if the migration numbers are unusually high. (Not at all the same thing as leaves on lines )


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> Could be a genuine issue if the migration numbers are unusually high. (Not at all the same thing as leaves on lines )


Storms in Spain don't migrate any more. They are here year round. Climate change


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Storms in Spain don't migrate any more. They are here year round. Climate change


*Storms *on lines? I'm pretty sure that is actually a typo and you mean storks 

Storks are certainly now there year round, but some areas can have huge numbers and they can interfere with lots of things, including power pylons. And of course conditions can cause them move around locally. 


That aside, but bearing climate change in mind, and with regard to the OP's issue, if I were about to upgrade my electricals now I would definitely opt for more than my current needs.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> if I were about to upgrade my electricals now I would definitely opt for more than my current needs.


Ha ha!!  Intentional pun?


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Overandout said:


> Ha ha!!  Intentional pun?


Accidental pun  Not sufficiently alert at the moment to do it intentionally 


(Not really up to going into the complex behaviour of migrating birds during climate change right now either, but as it's off topic I chose not to pursue it.)


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

EverHopeful said:


> *Storms *on lines? I'm pretty sure that is actually a typo and you mean storks
> 
> Storks are certainly now there year round, but some areas can have huge numbers and they can interfere with lots of things, including power pylons. And of course conditions can cause them move around locally.
> 
> ...


That is indeed what we are doing, when we have family and friends out to stay will not be able to sustain all our needs on 3.4 KW! Yes we appreciate there is a charge per unit contracted, but when we are back in the U.K. will not use any electricity at all so just the standing charge, so evens things out a bit.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Storks in Spain don't migrate any more. They are here year round. Climate change


Sorry, you are wrong. Many more winter here than in the past, but large numbers do still migrate to Africa. I know because we are under the flight path! I've seen flocks of over a thousand circling over the wetlands of La Janda, just west of here.

This morning a couple of hundred griffon vultures flew directly over Alcalá. A stunning sight.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry, you are wrong. Many more winter here than in the past, but large numbers do still migrate to Africa. I know because we are under the flight path! I've seen flocks of over a thousand circling over the wetlands of La Janda, just west of here.
> 
> This morning a couple of hundred griffon vultures flew directly over Alcalá. A stunning sight.


I agree. Timing of migration can vary somewhat in unusual seasons (which can also be a result of climate change) but certainly they are still migrating. I note that summer was long and arm and that winter arrived pretty late in areas such as Alsace, Germany and beyond, but when it set in it hit very hard in various areas, these are conditions that can cause many birds to migrate later, especially if food continues to be plentiful, thus allowing them to be stronger for the trip. Some storks have disappeared for years at a time in Alsace and then return (the locals there usually do not disturb the nests so that they are ready and waiting for the storks to return, whenever that might be). We even had storks fly across here maybe 6 weeks or go, heading south - and we also saw lots of other migratory birds flying south unusually late.


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