# Age demographic in Ajijic and Chapala



## suegarn

Does anyone here know what the total population of that area is, and the percentage breakdown of people aged 50 and over, and 49 and under? I've been trying to find the answer online through many types of searches, but no luck yet! Any help leading me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!


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## chicois8

I would ask on one of the Chapala boards but since it is mostly a retirement destination I would think there are a lot of grey ponytails around and I am not referring to the ladies......


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=suegarn;1227422]Does anyone here know what the total population of that area is, and the percentage breakdown of people aged 50 and over, and 49 and under? I've been trying to find the answer online through many types of searches, but no luck yet! Any help leading me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated! [/QUOTE]_

suegarrn.

The total population of the Chapala Municipality which extends from the Poncitlan Municipality to the east to the Jocotepec Municipality on the west with an inland jog from the lake to the Ixtlahuacan des Membrillos and Poncitlan Municipalities on the north, has a total population I woud estimate at around 50,000 people Of those, perhaps 10,000 inhabitants at most, and probably more like 5,000 inhabitants, are foreign born expatriates. Nobody really knows of the number of expats who comprise the percentage of the poplulation of the "Lakeside" area and that percentage varies greaty according to the season of the year. 

Unlike some other areas of Mexico attracting foreigners. the Lake Chapala area between the Chapala and Jocotepec municipalies is especially loaded with retired foreigners who make up the large majority of expatriates living here so if you are destined to come here, bring your clappers and hearing aides but if you foeget those things, we have great dentists and hearing specialists who can help you once you are down here. 

If old folks in bermuda shorts. tennis shoes, corny Canadian style hats or baseball caps and knee socks going "Eh", irritate you, you may want to seek another venue.


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## suegarn

*It's a start!*

Thanks Hounddog, for your information about the total population number in the area. What I'm hoping to find out is how many of them are over 50 and under 50....including Mexicans as well as expats, full-time and part-time residents. If someone out there has that info, I would be quite interested to see the numbers!


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## Longford

suegarn said:


> Thanks Hounddog, for your information about the total population number in the area. What I'm hoping to find out is how many of them are over 50 and under 50....including Mexicans as well as expats, full-time and part-time residents. If someone out there has that info, I would be quite interested to see the numbers!


Statistics such as this are typically included in the Mexican Census. My suggestion is that you search-out the most recent Census report, and the data for the municipios Lakeside. Is there a particular reason you're asking the question?


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## Isla Verde

suegarn said:


> Thanks Hounddog, for your information about the total population number in the area. What I'm hoping to find out is how many of them are over 50 and under 50....including Mexicans as well as expats, full-time and part-time residents. If someone out there has that info, I would be quite interested to see the numbers!


And why are you interested in this information?


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Isla Verde;1228718]And why are you interested in this information?[/QUOTE]_

My guess is that the OP is doing a marketing survey as marketing specialists are quite interested in age groupings for quite rational reasons. People over certain ages are les flexible in their product preferences and 50 is a good age point beyond which consumers are less likely to be persuaded by advertisements whether clearly or indirectly presented. 

Over the past few years living at Lake Chapala, we have taken to occasionally watching HGTV´s U.S./Canadian domestic and international home shows in which people seek out new homes in the U.S., Canada or in foreign environments. We wondered for a time why Lake Chapala was rarely if ever included in these shows since it is so popular with U.S. and Canadian retirees and then it dawned on us that these ´programs are aimed at young to middle-aged viewers, not old farts set in their ways who are not amenable to change. 

Dawg is not, at age 71, offended by this. I like my Herradura Plata Tequila and my cheese whoppers to say nothing of my Coca Cola sugar fix and I´m damned if you are going to get me to drink Pepsi or start seeking out greasy tacos dorados just because they were advertised in the media here.

To each his own but we old goobers know what we intend to ingest or wear or live in until the final bell tolls so don´t mess with us. Go for those elastic young morons who are entirely flexible boneheads unsure of themselves ,


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## Coachese

63.78% of people in that area are 50 and older.


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## Hound Dog

Coachese said:


> 63.78% of people in that area are 50 and older.


Well, now, Coachese of Northern California, I find it amazing that you can quote such a precise figure as 63.78% of the people living in this area which you failed to define but presumably mean to define as the three local municipalities along the north lakeshore of Chapala, Poncitlan and Jocotepec, an area with a population I would estimate at about 50,000 people excluding those living far from the lake which many do in those municipalities, which means that if my estimate of 50,000 inhabitants is correct, there are precisely 31,890 inhabitants 50 years old or older which means, by definition, that the population aged under 50 is 18,110. Perhaps you should return to your abacus and re-calculate your demographic profile. 

I lived in Northern Caliifornia for many years and used to drive between San Francisco and Eureka frequently. After many trips up and down the coast, I can assure you that there are precisely 279,113 redwood trees along that route give or take a few thousand.


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## mickisue1

HD: I watch House Hunters International a lot, and they DO include retirees. My guess is that they prefer more unusual locales. So, for example, they'll show a retired couple looking for a home in Umbria, but not Lakeside, because there is a LOT of information about that area.

In MX, I've seen a couple shows about Merida, and several on the Pacific coast, but nothing inland, at all.

That particular show about Umbria cracked me up, BTW: the husband's biggest concern was that they had room for their hot tub, which they imported all the way from Seattle! My husband and I still make jokes about moving to Italy and having a hot tub.


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## Hound Dog

Well, mickisue1; I have wracked what brain I have left and can´t remember any inland cities HGTV has featured in Mexico either. They do tend to dote on places such as Panama and Costa Rica occasionallly throwing in a beach town in Nicaragua where some young people have decided to retire, surf and consume rice and beans for the next 50 years but I don´t think HGTV particularly cares for Mexico. Maybe we are too close to Texas to be exotic enough for them.

I like your comment about Umbria - a place the producers at HGTV love. Dawg lived in San Francisco for many years and often worked in Seattle so I understand why people living up there in that climate would (1) feel that a hot tub was one of life´s necessities and (2) think that hot tubs are hard to come by in Italy thereby necessitating toting one across the big pond.

You know, my darlin wife is from Paris which is one place we considered retiring years ago but rejected for, among other things, the fact that the tiny accomodations we could afford to buy there on our budget were unpleasant to say the least. Sure, we would move into that palatial apartment on the Left Bank if we had $10,000,000 USD to invest but it seems we forgot to save that much in our IRAs. Damned short-sighted of us I must admit.

By the way, the apartments we could afford in Paris were so tiny we would have had to have set up the hot tub in a local park and lived in it just to have room to turn around and put in a decent sized refrigerator.

Since you guys get such a kick out of HGTV´s house hunting shows, I want you to know that, when I take over those programs, I am going to change a few things including handing all home searching participants a list of totally forbidden things they will not be allowed to do when on the air. This list of forbidden utterances will include:
(1) Ever, even once, EVER uttering the word "WOW!".
(2) Commenting on the previous owner´s tacky choice of paint, tiles, floor coverings, appliances or the lack of a frigging bathtub in a ten million dollar house.
(3) Extolling the great view looking out over some ratty lawn which makes it seem they have spent the last 20 years in a windowless jail cell.

I am reminded of this beach house just south of San Francisco we sold in the 1980s in which we had built this magnificent shower with splendid green tiles chosen by the Dawg hisseff. One day, the real estate agent brought some potential purchasers in and neither the real estate agent nor the potential purchasers knew we were there and could overhear them. The matriarch of the family viewing the house walked into the bathroom and exclaimed, "Eeeewww, what horrible taste. That gross shower enclosure is the first thing that is out of here on day one!" 

Actually, those are the people who bought the house so I assume my treasured shower enclosure has been gone for some 30 years by now.


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## Coachese

Hound Dog said:


> Well, now, Coachese of Northern California, I find it amazing that you can quote such a precise figure as 63.78% of the people living in this area which you failed to define but presumably mean to define as the three local municipalities along the north lakeshore of Chapala, Poncitlan and Jocotepec, an area with a population I would estimate at about 50,000 people excluding those living far from the lake which many do in those municipalities, which means that if my estimate of 50,000 inhabitants is correct, there are precisely 31,890 inhabitants 50 years old or older which means, by definition, that the population aged under 50 is 18,110. Perhaps you should return to your abacus and re-calculate your demographic profile.
> 
> I lived in Northern Caliifornia for many years and used to drive between San Francisco and Eureka frequently. After many trips up and down the coast, I can assure you that there are precisely 279,113 redwood trees along that route give or take a few thousand.


My abacus is in the shop. I had to hand count the population from a Google Earth screenshot. While this method may not be accurate, it has so far supplied the only actual FIGURE, thus, answering the OPs question.

I'd be more impressed if you counted Eucalyptus trees between Fall River Mills and Jenner. Counting Redwood trees is considered real 'horse and buggy' stuff.


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## Detailman

Coachese said:


> My abacus is in the shop. I had to hand count the population from a Google Earth screenshot. While this method may not be accurate, it has so far supplied the only actual FIGURE, thus, answering the OPs question.
> 
> I'd be more impressed if you counted Eucalyptus trees between Fall River Mills and Jenner. Counting Redwood trees is considered real 'horse and buggy' stuff.


You have a nice sense of humour! :clap2:


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## Hound Dog

_


Coachese said:



My abacus is in the shop. I had to hand count the population from a Google Earth screenshot. While this method may not be accurate, it has so far supplied the only actual FIGURE, thus, answering the OPs question.

I'd be more impressed if you counted Eucalyptus trees between Fall River Mills and Jenner. Counting Redwood trees is considered real 'horse and buggy' stuff.

Click to expand...

_
Well, now, Coachese, Dawg is beginning to like you and, I´ll have you know that Dawg and Citlali lived in Jenner for a couple of years in the 1970s when she worked in Geyserville and I worked all over the place from Los Angeles to Seattle to Phoenix to Las Vegas as a traveling bank examiner but my wife drove that dangerous highway from Geyserville to Jenner every day back and forth through Geurneville (AKA Hooterville) , the ******* capital of California, competing with those Kaiser trucks for space on a highway built for muletrains and the fact that we are still alive some 40 years later proves that God has strange firends. The fact is that there are not that many Eucalyptus trees on the road from Geyserville to Jenner but in the 70s there were all sorts of weird freaks passed out beside the road and even had I decided to count them it would not matter as thay are all dead now. 

Jenner is the single most unfriendly town, filled with thugs, I have ever lived in and I lived in Marseilles for a while, one of Europe´s mostv dangerous towns,

By the way, in Northern Californa there is no such place as Fall River Mills. Perhaps there is a Jenner in New Hampshire. We do not tend to name places "Mills" in Northern California which makes me believe you are unacqainted with the place.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> By the way, in Northern California there is no such place as Fall River Mills. Perhaps there is a Jenner in New Hampshire. We do not tend to name places "Mills" in Northern California which makes me believe you are unacquainted with the place.


There is a Sutter's Mill and a Mill Valley, although that you could probably argue that Mill Valley belongs in Southern California. For that matter the definition of Northern California depends on where you live. Mendocino would put the whole San Francisco Bay area in Southern California. San Jose would argue it starts in Santa Barbara, while Santa Barbara might claim residence in Northern California and argue that Southern California starts in LA.


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## Hound Dog

_


TundraGreen said:



There is a Sutter's Mill and a Mill Valley, although that you could probably argue that Mill Valley belongs in Southern California. For that matter the definition of Northern California depends on where you live. Mendocino would put the whole San Francisco Bay area in Southern California. San Jose would argue it starts in Santa Barbara, while Santa Barbara might claim residence in Northern California and argue that Southern California starts in LA.

Click to expand...

_Ah, yes. A true Californian contributing here. I first moved to California in 1969, like Forrest Gump, heading frrom Mobile County, Alabama to the Santa Monica Pier although I drove rather than ran all the way. I wanted to move to Santa Monica to meet Nanette Funicello on the beach there after my teenage years of watching her and Troy Donahue having fun around the campfire. They never had sex in those days but that was OK since sex was frowned upon in the 1950s.

I poreceeded to move to Oakland and then San Francisco and Sonoma County but worked the whole state back then so know all sorts of podunk places from San Ysidro to Yreka. No matter what they call any region in California, here is the way it is for the traveling bank examiner:

Southern California really means the coast from San Diego to just south of Santa Barbara. The coast from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz is Central California. Santa Cruz to Devil´s Slide is ill-defined. San Francisco north to the Oregon state line is considered Northern California. Anything east of the coast range inluding the great central valley is Hooterville and since I had a boss who hated me in those early days, I was always assigned to work in Hooterville. I found out there were some great Armenian and Basque restaurants in the Central Valley.

Sorry to bore the rest of you with tales of California but what the hell.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> Sorry to bore the rest of you with tales of California but what the hell.


I moved to California from Alaska with a four year stop in Vermont sandwich in the middle. I too sampled California off the beaten track doing geophysical field work from Brawley to Quincy, everywhere in between, and lots of places no one ever heard of (except the people who live there).


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;1230766]There is a Sutter's Mill and a Mill Valley, although that you could probably argue that Mill Valley belongs in Southern California..... _

Now, now, TG; as we both know, some town known as Fall River Mills has to be in New England where recent female immigrants in the 19th Century worked 12 hour days in the textile mill while their husbands farmed the rocky soil whereas Mill Valley was reputedly named after Billy Bob Mill who settled there in about 1928 before they built that famous bridge into San Francisco. Sutter´s Mill was.of course, where you took your wheat where Billy Bob Sutter made flour with it for a pittance.

I hope this clarifies everything.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;1231833]I moved to California from Alaska with a four year stop in Vermont sandwich in the middle. I too sampled California off the beaten track doing geophysical field work from Brawley to Quincy, everywhere in between, and lots of places no one ever heard of (except the people who live there).[/QUOTE]_

Jesus H. Jones, TG. Brawley and Quincy? And I thought my boss hated me when he sent me to Taft and Calexico.


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## chicois8

And don't forget Millbrae......


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## chicois8

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=TundraGreen;1230766]There is a Sutter's Mill and a Mill Valley, although that you could probably argue that Mill Valley belongs in Southern California..... _
> 
> Now, now, TG; as we both know, some town known as Fall River Mills has to be in New England where recent female immigrants in the 19th Century worked 12 hour days in the textile mill while their husbands farmed the rocky soil whereas Mill Valley was reputedly named after Billy Bob Mill who settled there in about 1928 before they built that famous bridge into San Francisco. Sutter´s Mill was.of course, where you took your wheat where Billy Bob Sutter made flour with it for a pittance.
> 
> I hope this clarifies everything.



Nice story about Billy Bob, I guess the sawmill built there in the 1830's or its being named Mill Valley in 1890 must be before Billy arrived.......


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## Isla Verde

:focus:, ok?


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## suegarn

*Not doing marketing research*



Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=Isla Verde;1228718]And why are you interested in this information?_




My guess is that the OP is doing a marketing survey as marketing specialists are quite interested in age groupings for quite rational reasons. People over certain ages are les flexible in their product preferences and 50 is a good age point beyond which consumers are less likely to be persuaded by advertisements whether clearly or indirectly presented. 

Over the past few years living at Lake Chapala, we have taken to occasionally watching HGTV´s U.S./Canadian domestic and international home shows in which people seek out new homes in the U.S., Canada or in foreign environments. We wondered for a time why Lake Chapala was rarely if ever included in these shows since it is so popular with U.S. and Canadian retirees and then it dawned on us that these ´programs are aimed at young to middle-aged viewers, not old farts set in their ways who are not amenable to change. 

Dawg is not, at age 71, offended by this. I like my Herradura Plata Tequila and my cheese whoppers to say nothing of my Coca Cola sugar fix and I´m damned if you are going to get me to drink Pepsi or start seeking out greasy tacos dorados just because they were advertised in the media here.

To each his own but we old goobers know what we intend to ingest or wear or live in until the final bell tolls so don´t mess with us. Go for those elastic young morons who are entirely flexible boneheads unsure of themselves ,[/QUOTE]


Hound Dog, I'm sorry if my question was worded to sound like market research. I'm definitely NOT asking for that reason. I am looking into moving to Ajijic, and I was just curious to see where I fit into the demographic of the area ( I am 58 ). Looking for a place to live with activities and entertainment geared toward the baby boomer age bracket. I just want to make sure that I'm not living in an area where it's mostly young families ( been there, done that ). I love children, but I'm finding myself wanting a more peaceful, laidback lifestyle.


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## Hound Dog

_


chicois8 said:



Nice story about Billy Bob, I guess the sawmill built there in the 1830's or its being named Mill Valley in 1890 must be before Billy arrived.......

Click to expand...

_
Good response, chicoise 8. I think, perhaps your historic perspectiveabout Mill Valley is more acurate than my entirely made-up fantasy and I also see now why Moderator Isla Verde tried to steer us back in the right direction.


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## mickisue1

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=TundraGreen;1230766]There is a Sutter's Mill and a Mill Valley, although that you could probably argue that Mill Valley belongs in Southern California..... _
> 
> Now, now, TG; as we both know, some town known as Fall River Mills has to be in New England where recent female immigrants in the 19th Century worked 12 hour days in the textile mill while their husbands farmed the rocky soil whereas Mill Valley was reputedly named after Billy Bob Mill who settled there in about 1928 before they built that famous bridge into San Francisco. Sutter´s Mill was.of course, where you took your wheat where Billy Bob Sutter made flour with it for a pittance.
> 
> I hope this clarifies everything.


Not so much the immigrant women. They were busy being servants to the men who owned the mills. It was little girls who worked the mills, because their smaller hands and arms could fit more easily between the flying mechanisms. 

And be cut off, of course, as well.


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## Coachese

Why there most certainly is a Fall River Mills. Spent many a summer fishing for trout on the Pitt River with my Uncle Roy.

Now, back to topic. I've adjusted my calculation to 61.238% of people in the "Lakeside" area over the age of 50. This new number has been vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back together. It is irrefutable.


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## citlali

I think you are way off if you look at the total population. The foreign population is composed mostly of retired people alhouth some people are retiring very young, some foreigners are younger and usually work. 
The Mexican population has quite a few children and the population average has to be way lower than that
You do know that the majority of the population is Mexican even in Ajijic so your average sounds pretty off to me.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Coachese;1237101]Why there most certainly is a Fall River Mills. Spent many a summer fishing for trout on the Pitt River with my Uncle Roy.

Now, back to topic. I've adjusted my calculation to 61.238% of people in the "Lakeside" area over the age of 50. This new number has been vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back together. It is irrefutable.[/QUOTE]_

Tell me about this "irrefutable" Mexican agency that gathered this data and under whose auspices that data was published including the name of the agency, dates published and the methodology employed. Who "vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back togther" this phony information? 

Your Uncle Roy may not have remembered where he was, but he surely was not in California. 

Let´s have a little fun. I´m just a South Alabama hick so quote me your bibliography for this " vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back together" irrefutable information and if you do so and the informtion is verifiable by an independent governmental agency, anywhere in North America , I´ll kiss your butt in the Pitt River public square on a Sunday just as church is letting out and give you three hours to draw a crowd.


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## Coachese

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=Coachese;1237101]Why there most certainly is a Fall River Mills. Spent many a summer fishing for trout on the Pitt River with my Uncle Roy.
> 
> Now, back to topic. I've adjusted my calculation to 61.238% of people in the "Lakeside" area over the age of 50. This new number has been vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back together. It is irrefutable._






hound dog said:


> Tell me about this "irrefutable" Mexican agency that gathered this data and under whose auspices that data was published including the name of the agency, dates published and the methodology employed. Who "vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back togther" this phony information?
> 
> Your Uncle Roy may not have remembered where he was, but he surely was not in California.
> 
> Let´s have a little fun. I´m just a South Alabama hick so quote me your bibliography for this " vetted, cleared, cleaned, diced, sliced and put back together" irrefutable information and if you do so, I´ll kiss your butt in the Pitt River public square on a Sunday just as church is letting out and give you three hours to draw a crowd.


1) Unfortunately, there is no public square in "Pitt River." You see, it's a "river." There certainly is no church there, however, my Uncle Roy's house was past the old white church, near the end of Schoolhouse Rd in Fall River Mills, so maybe that would work.

2) You could do your performance outside the Indian casino there? More people anyway, and it would take less time to get them all together. Either there or in front of the local "Bullets and Booze".. up to you really.

3) My bibliography does not contain any Mexican sources, as surely their resources (even if the desire was in place) are not stout enough to perform such exhaustive, house-by-house, pen-by-pen, bache-by-bache scientific conglamerificmuerational study.

4) The source for the total population (and age thereof), not only for Lakeside, but all of Earth, comes from Appendix 23 of To Serve Man, by Damon Knight (translated from the Katamint).

You can trust me on this, as the book is very hard to find, or become an ingredient in someone's soup.


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## suegarn

*Enough already!*

I'm beginning to regret that I asked this question! All I wanted was an approximate answer from neighbourly people ( which I hope to find in Ajijic! ). All I've seen on this post is people sniping at each other, and getting WAY off topic. I didn't mean to start a battle between anyone on here! I guess I'll just have to hope I've made the right choice when I move down there!


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## TundraGreen

suegarn said:


> I'm beginning to regret that I asked this question! All I wanted was an approximate answer from neighbourly people ( which I hope to find in Ajijic! ). All I've seen on this post is people sniping at each other, and getting WAY off topic. I didn't mean to start a battle between anyone on here! I guess I'll just have to hope I've made the right choice when I move down there!


I am sorry we haven't been more helpful. But we have been having fun. I think the problem is that no one knows the answer to your question, at least, beyond saying that near Lake Chapala, there are a lot of old people from the US and Canada.

Good luck.


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## suegarn

*Thank you Tundra Green!*

I realize most people try to be helpful, but I don't see the exchange between Hound Dog and Coachese as being"fun". ( Just my opinion, though )


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## Coachese

suegarn said:


> I realize most people try to be helpful, but I don't see the exchange between Hound Dog and Coachese as being"fun". ( Just my opinion, though )


Of course it is.....it's nuanced and surreal (and might hurt a bit in the morning), but it's fun.


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## TundraGreen

suegarn said:


> I realize most people try to be helpful, but I don't see the exchange between Hound Dog and Coachese as being"fun". ( Just my opinion, though )


It seemed like fun to me, but I can see where it might not seem so to someone actually interested in an answer.

I guess the question in my mind is: Is it so important. I have a lot of friends of all ages. One of my closest friends in Mexico is 40 years younger than I am. I met him 6 years ago when I was looking for someone to practice my Spanish with. We are still at it, he practices his English, I work on my Spanish. Of course we don't spend much time together now. When we met he was a student. Now he has a job, wife and baby. Other friends are older than me, although that is getting to be less common. As Herb Caen used to say, I read the obituary column every day, and any day that my name doesn't appear, is a good day.


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## mickisue1

Sue, rather than ask about the age demographic, it really is a good idea to spend some time in wherever you are thinking of living, before you move there.

As TG mentions, people of all ages can be simpatico, and that's more important, surely?

At least, now you know that SOME of the Lakeside people are sarcastic and enjoy mock battles, right? They had me laughing out loud, but then snark is deeply embedded in my genetic code.


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## Coachese

Nothing, but I don't discriminate by age. It's just that I had forgotten this thread existed and wanted to claim the relevance of Fall River Mill, CA.


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## ValRomx

A friend claims that the average age in San Miguel is "near death."


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## manuel dexterity

It is very simple. The vast majority, I think you could safely say at least 95% of the foreign population is over 50. The Mexican population pretty much follows the demographics of the rest of the country. A good majority below 50.


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## Hound Dog

_


manuel dexterity said:



It is very simple. The vast majority, I think you could safely say at least 95% of the foreign population is over 50. The Mexican population pretty much follows the demographics of the rest of the country. A good majority below 50.

Click to expand...

_ My darlin' wife was shocked upon our moving part time to Highland Chiapas from "Lakeside" and encountering folks generally of all ages - many still in a time of vigorous youth. There were actually many among them who had never opened a can of Denny Moore Beef Stew or whipped up a bowl of Quebec style poutine.

I figure that if ISIS blows up the Chapala municipality, U.S. social security disbursements will decrease by a third.

The latest and serious crisis at "Lakeside" was the temporary closure of the local Guadalajara COSTCO Lakeside home delivery service. The sales of pre-prepared macaroni and cheese delights ready in five minutes from box to plate plummeted overnight. COSTCO stores near Lake Chapala may have to close because of diminished sales volume of processed foods with the nutritional value of cases of Moon Pies.


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## Hound Dog

ValRomx said:


> A friend claims that the average age in San Miguel is "near death."


God´s waiting room.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Sue, re your "I'm beginning to regret that I asked this question! All I wanted was an approximate answer from neighbourly people ( which I hope to find in Ajijic! ). All I've seen on this post is people sniping at each other, and getting WAY off topic. I didn't mean to start a battle between anyone on here! I guess I'll just have to hope I've made the right choice when I move down there!"

Well, now at least you'll know what it'll be like living among a bunch of retired grouchers rather than among families with kids.


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## Hound Dog

_


Meritorious-MasoMenos said:



Sue, re your "I'm beginning to regret that I asked this question! All I wanted was an approximate answer from neighbourly people ( which I hope to find in Ajijic! ). All I've seen on this post is people sniping at each other, and getting WAY off topic. I didn't mean to start a battle between anyone on here! I guess I'll just have to hope I've made the right choice when I move down there!"

Well, now at least you'll know what it'll be like living among a bunch of retired grouchers rather than among families with kids.

Click to expand...

_
As someone once said about France; the only problem with France is the French.

Conversations overheard in Ajijic - home to countless aggravated old expat farts:

Well, I do declare, this is a mighty fine place with a great climate but these Mexicans around here drive me crazy and, God knows they sure can´t drive. I can´t believe you bought a house in Ajijic when you could have lived in (Chapala, Jocotepec, San Antonio, Ixtlahuacan. etc.) like I do which is a far superior place as anyone with a pea brain knows and, while it´s true that we used to get a lot of snow up in (Wisconsin. Alberta, Quebec, etc., etc.) at least the people are civilized and know how to prepare proper (poutine, sausages, bland cheeses, grits, etc.) and, while Guadalajara is a nice city it´s impossible to drive there so I´ll be taking the LCS bus to the mall so I can load up with real canned pork and beans, Doritos and other food essentials but what I really hate is that that Doreen Johnson always holds up the bus going back to Lakeside hanging around yakking with the store clerks at the mall who have nothing to say anyway and then there is that Billy Bob Johnson down the street from me in the fraccionamiento who never mows his lawn and walks around his house in his underwear and *******

Welcome to God´s waiting room.


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## lagoloo

FORTUNATELY, the forums do not represent the population of either San Miguel or Lakeside. I am noticing that "ageism" is alive and well on this thread.
My opinion, after living in both areas, in the U.S.A. and a few other places is the following:

SOME PEOPLE ARE NEVER YOUNG AND OTHERS ARE NEVER OLD.

And: some people get their kicks by being snarky. Probably have been that way since they were teenagers.


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## Hound Dog

_


lagoloo said:



FORTUNATELY, the forums do not represent the population of either San Miguel or Lakeside. I am noticing that "ageism" is alive and well on this thread.
My opinion, after living in both areas, in the U.S.A. and a few other places is the following:

SOME PEOPLE ARE NEVER YOUNG AND OTHERS ARE NEVER OLD.

And: some people get their kicks by being snarky. Probably have been that way since they were teenagers

Click to expand...

_


lagoloo said:


> .




Capitalization for emphasis is indicative of a lack of self-confidence.


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## manuel dexterity

Hound Dog said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> Capitalization for emphasis is indicative of a lack of self-confidence._


_

Maybe the poster wanted to make sure our old eyes could see it?_


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## Hound Dog

_


manuel dexterity said:



Maybe the poster wanted to make sure our old eyes could see it?

Click to expand...

_Welcome back, Manuel. Dawg and Brigiitte missed you. Brigitte s down in Chiapas supposedly driving around between San Cristóbal and San Fernando on business but I think she is having an affair with some stud she met down there in reality. That´s OK with me. At least I can relax over a cup of coffee without the usual morning harangue and only the dogs with whom to converse and, for now at least, I'm the boss.


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## lagoloo

Hound Dog said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> Capitalization for emphasis is indicative of a lack of self-confidence._


_

According to?
At least it didn't take five or ten paragraphs to say it._


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog said:


> Capitalization for emphasis is indicative of a lack of self-confidence.


Or it could be part of the poster's writing style. I find that overuse of capitalization blunts its intended effect, but it can be useful if used judiciously.


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## Hound Dog

I love entertaining repartee. 

Sit, boy; I said sit! 

Woof! Woof!


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog said:


> I love entertaining repartee.
> 
> Sit, boy; I said sit!
> 
> Woof! Woof!


Let's keep in mind that if the repartee slips over the line into making personal attacks (even if they're made in jest), this entertaining verbal game of give-and-take may be called by your friendly neighborhood forum moderator.


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## Hound Dog

_


lagoloo said:



According to?
At least it didn't take five or ten paragraphs to say it.

Click to expand...

_I am not insulted by your nasty sarcasm, Lagaloo.It may take me a while to say something as I tend to be a bit loquacious and wander about in concluding thought processes as we southerners are often addicted to words but at least I have something to say. Give us your perspective on life in general succintly have you had anything to observe recently worth sharing with the rest of us..


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## lagoloo

Hound Dog said:


> I am not insulted by your nasty sarcasm, Lagaloo.It may take me a while to say something as I tend to be a bit loquacious and wander about in concluding thought processes as we southerners are often addicted to words but at least I have something to say. Give us your perspective on life in general succintly have you had anything to observe recently worth sharing with the rest of us..


"Capitalization for emphasis is indicative of a lack of self-confidence." Hound dog

You started the insult slinging, dawg. How about just owning that one and being done with it?


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## Hound Dog

_


lagoloo said:



"Capitalization for emphasis is indicative of a lack of self-confidence." Hound dog

You started the insult slinging, dawg. How about just owning that one and being done with it?

Click to expand...

_I´m actually beginning to like you a Little bit, lagoloo.


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## Playaboy

If you have ever around the American Legion in Chapala or LCS in Ajijic, you will hear the LOUD scrapping and see all the ruts in the sidewalks from the walkers used by people around there.


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## Isla Verde

Playaboy said:


> If you have ever around the American Legion in Chapala or LCS in Ajijic, you will hear the LOUD scrapping and see all the ruts in the sidewalks from the walkers used by people around there.


No need for sarcasm, Playaboy. Someday you may need to use a walker to get around.


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## lagoloo

"Scrapping" at the old folks hangouts ??


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## Hound Dog

_


Isla Verde said:



No need for sarcasm, Playaboy. Someday you may need to use a walker to get around.

Click to expand...

_ Dawg has reached 72 and will soon hit 73 God willing. Many don´t. I walk some distance along the beachfront in Ajjic´s Six Corners área toward La Christina every day when I am here at Lakeside and when I am in San Cristóbal, I walk from our home in Barrio El Cerrillo to the principal plaza and back and I enjoy those outings but I must admit that, these days, I need a cane on those hillls and alomg rough beaches and I have found that I am more prone to fall and fall splendidly and instantly. I can no longer arise from those falls with old-man knees and need, therefore, to remain close to fences and walls where I can use my upper body strength to return to a walking position. This hándicap is not in the least bit amusing but if I don´t walk dailiy I am certain that I will become an invalid and will be unable to walk at all in the near future. Don´t laugh. We are alll headed in the same direction. There will be a day when you will be unable to right yourself upon falling if you should live so long. The other option is six feet under the turf.

Some day you´ll be scraping along yourself on your walker to someone else´s annoyance if you are lucky.


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog said:


> Dawg has reached 72 and will soon hit 73 God willing. Many don´t. I walk some distance along the beachfront in Ajjic´s Six Corners área toward La Christina every day when I am here at Lakeside and when I am in San Cristóbal, I walk from our home in Barrio El Cerrillo to the principal plaza and back and I enjoy those outings but I must admit that, these days, I need a cane on those hillls and alomg rough beaches and I have found that I am more prone to fall and fall splendidly and instantly. I can no longer arise from those falls with old-man knees and need, therefore, to remain close to fences and walls where I can use my upper body strength to return to a walking position. This hándicap is not in the least bit amusing but if I don´t walk dailiy I am certain that I will become an invalid and will be unable to walk at all in the near future. Don´t laugh. We are alll headed in the same direction. There will be a day when you will be unable to right yourself if you should live so long. The other option is six feet under the turf.


I have some older neighbors who get around with the help of a cane (no walkers so far that I've seen), and I sometimes wonder how old they are. I turned 69 this year, and I feel lucky that so far I am able to get around quite well under my own steam. I can even exit city buses with a bit of bounce to the sidewalk, though sometimes gallant young Mexican men offer me their hand if they are getting off ahead of me, which is nice but not really necessary. I think that living on the third floor (fourth floor in a building in the US) of a building with no elevator has kept me pretty sprightly since I go up and down the winding staircase several times a day. And usually I arrive at my door without huffing and puffing even when I'm carrying several bags of groceries or an over-stuffed laundry bag.

Hound Dog, keep up your daily strolls around the Lake Chapala shore and your hikes down the hill in San Cristóbal to the main plaza. As long as we keep moving, we won't end up as involuntary prisoners in our homes.


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## sunnyvmx

I am forever getting smiles and thumbs up when riding my scooter up and down the carretera, but they change to quizzical looks with the purchase of a package of disposable diapers at WalMart. (I use them under my bird's play gym instead of paper.) I suppose when I have the need for a cane or walker, I'll look into the purchase of an ATV. Right now I can still push my scooter up the driveway and into the garage, but I leave the kickstand down in case my back goes out and I collapse.


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## Playaboy

Isla Verde said:


> No need for sarcasm, Playaboy. Someday you may need to use a walker to get around.


You have no sense of humor Marsha.


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## Isla Verde

Playaboy said:


> You have no sense of humor Marsha.


I have a fabulous sense of humor - I just didn't find your comment amusing. Perhaps we find different things funny - making fun of older people who are doing their best to enjoy their later years doesn't do it for me.


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## RVGRINGO

There may come a time when age and infirmity force you to make a difficult and sad choice, as we have had to do. We have had to sell our home in Chapala and have just completed our move to Tucson in the land of VA and Medicare. It is quieter here than in any Mexican cemetery; people don‘t smile or talk, they text. We have been in our new house for a week and I am bored stiff.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> There may come a time when age and infirmity force you to make a difficult and sad choice, as we have had to do. We have had to sell our home in Chapala and have just completed our move to Tucson in the land of VA and Medicare. It is quieter here than in any Mexican cemetery; people don‘t smile or talk, they text. We have been in our new house for a week and I am bored stiff.


Glad to hear that you made the move safely - sorry to hear that you're bored stiff. Please drop by here anytime you have a yen to chat and contribute to our usually not boring discussions/discusiones. Un abrazo, RV.


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## lagoloo

Some are forced by circumstances to move away from the places they love to places that may be hard to love. 

When my husband's corporate gypsy life moved us from one place to another, some of which were every bit as bad as I'd heard, I tried to alleviate the misery by seeking out organizations or groups with interests similar to my own, and surprisingly, found some kindred souls who didn't want to be where they were any more than I did. This made it a lot easier to cope. I don't know what's in Tucson these days or what your physical limitations allow you to do.......but I'm sending you a virtual package of hope.
We miss you here in lakeside.


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## Hound Dog

_


RVGRINGO said:



There may come a time when age and infirmity force you to make a difficult and sad choice, as we have had to do. We have had to sell our home in Chapala and have just completed our move to Tucson in the land of VA and Medicare. It is quieter here than in any Mexican cemetery; people don‘t smile or talk, they text. We have been in our new house for a week and I am bored stiff.

Click to expand...

_I think that if I were you.RV, I´d give Tucson a bit more time before writing that people don´t smile or talk but simply text. We actually strongly considered Tucson as a retiremant place back in 2000 before deciding on Lake Chapala instead but that wasn´t because people did not smile nor talk there (There was no serious texting in those days) but because of three other reasons:
* The houses we could afford in Tucson in 2000 in that real estate bubble were just way too expensive for what we wanted which we invisioned as a somewhat large desert cactus garden surrounding a pleasant Tuscon-style modest home.
* That town was spread out all over hell and full of ticky-tacky subdivisions as far as the eye could see. There was no way to live there without total reliance on a car driven over miles upon miles of featureless expressways stretching out into eternity through unimposing, mindless, hick enclaves just to get to a Safeway and buy some hot dogs or Tucson-pretend Tex/Az/Mex food. 
* The place was way too scorching hot for human habitation and, just up the road, Arizona´s other metrópolis, Phoenix, was even worse. 

I am sorry you had to move to that place for medical reasons but we all live under that cloud of uncertainty. I wish you the best of luck.


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## coondawg

I know people from Chapala that have moved there about 2 years ago and they love it, according to their best friends, who still live in Chapala. Each person's needs are different.


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## Longford

Relocation, and repatriation back to a home country does have it's challenges ... more so than the challenge of relocating within just one country.

When I moved back to the USA from Mexico after 6 years away I felt disconnected to the lifestyle/culture I was re-joining. It probably took me from 6 months to a year, more like a year, to become somewhat comfortable "back home." 

And when I lived in Canada for a couple of years and moved back to the USA, there was a period of adjustment for me.

I think that our acceptance of returning home depends on our motivation for doing so. Moving to be closer to family or for employment reasons or because we willingly chose a location for retirement because it was at the top of our list ... is one thing ... and returning home because of failing health or inadequate care or limited financial resources ... is something else. The "why" colors our view/reaction.

As for Tucson: it's a city I'm familiar with. I lived/worked there for several years. My sister and her husband lived there until a year ago. He died unexpectedly and she died this past Spring. It's a community near the top of my list of places I might retire or have a second home in retirement. I've always found Tucson to be one of the last "wild west" type communities. People are very independent and I think few people move there to socialize with others (though I haven't found such interactions difficult to accomplish). They move there for opposite reasons. Actually, it's a truly Mexican community, with deep roots south of the border. It's a university/college town - with 40,000+ students. It's a military city/town - with Davis-Monthan Air Force Base playing a prominent role in the community with probably 5,000 airmen/women stationed there plus their families. Outdoor sports/adventures are a prime interest of many. There wasn't a month that passed that I hadn't been out riding a horse in the desert two or three times. It's a desert climate and people tend to be indoors until after the Sun goes down - 100 days a year with temperatures in excess of 100F. Desert landscape. Municipal regulations regarding how much landscaping you can have, and what color you can paint residential buildings. Nobody should move there expecting lakeside living and lots of green trees/lawns. There are relatively few "tract" housing developments in the city, and it's not common to use an expressway to move about the city - unless, of course, someone chooses to live outside the city or on a far edge of the city. There are some relatively new golf course developments on the edges of the city, however, and some further-out Del Webb-type seniors developments but the city center is free of that for the most part. Many Vets do relocate to Tucson because the VA hospital there has had a good reputation, the cost of living can be lower than many other places in the USA and the Winters are mild. A Vet friend of mine plans to move to Puerto Penasco, Sonora ... so he can continue to live in Mexico and still be relatively close to the VA facility in Tucson. 

Tucson isn't for everyone. Either is Ajijic, or Chapala or the D.F. Different strokes for different folks. But one thing is certain, repatriation to a home country does probably take some major adjustment for most expats.


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## Ajijic Lady

RVGRINGO said:


> There may come a time when age and infirmity force you to make a difficult and sad choice, as we have had to do. We have had to sell our home in Chapala and have just completed our move to Tucson in the land of VA and Medicare. It is quieter here than in any Mexican cemetery; people don‘t smile or talk, they text. We have been in our new house for a week and I am bored stiff.


Not fair to compare Tucson and Chapala; one a mostly (sub)urban crawl large metro area, the other a small city on a beautiful lake. That said, there are walkable vibrant neighborhoods in Tucson where you will see your neighbors out and about. Sam Hughes is the largest, but others are listed here; go check them out. National Register Historic Districts | Official website of the City of Tucson

Or, check out small towns in AZ such as Jerome, Bisbee (where we owned a home for 11 years), Sedona (though that's pretty sprawling now), Wickenburg or for a bit bigger, downtown Prescott. 

If your need is simply VA facilities, there are 49 other states that all have some very nice historic small towns or in large cities, historic neighborhoods that have been re-discovered. 

We moved from Ajijic (after living there for 5 years) to a small town in FL (Gulfport) recently. We can walk to over a dozen non-chain restaurants, the City Pier, the Library, the beach, community center....all within a 10 minute walk. We can drive to the now hip revitalized Downtown St. Pete in 12 minutes where there are 4 or 5 museums, tons of eateries, funky shops, an opera house. If we wanted to we could take public transportation from Gulport to St. Pete and then transfer to their Trolley that takes us for a buck, out to the barrier islands/beaches (St. Pete Beach, etc.). 

There is at least one VA hospital in St. Pete (I've seen the sign for it), maybe more.

PS: We ate out 7 to 10 times a week in Ajijic (lived near LCS); we do the same here in Gulfport, at only a nominally higher cost (I swear!). 

I know this is the MX forum and at times we truly miss our lives there....but while you were gone, many US towns and historic neighborhoods have re-emerged and you may want to do more research. 

Please PM me if I can help with research for you; I dearly loved your posts on TOB where I posted as Bisbee Gal.


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## lagoloo

Since the original topic has been lost along the way, and since our long-time amigo RVGringo is not the only one who will need to face his kind of choice and move back the the States for health reasons, how about moving this into a new thread for discussion on the subject? Like: where would you re-locate if you *had* to move back NOB?:confused2:


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## Longford

lagoloo said:


> Since the original topic has been lost along the way, and since our long-time amigo RVGringo is not the only one who will need to face his kind of choice and move back the the States for health reasons, how about moving this into a new thread for discussion on the subject? Like: where would you re-locate if you *had* to move back NOB?:confused2:


I suspect everyone posting would have a different response, because the choice would be based on individual considerations. Maybe the reason will be health. Maybe it will be due to the death (in Mexico) of a spouse/partner. Maybe it will be due to safety and security concerns. Yes, there can be many reasons.

Maybe, too, there might be a discussion of the possible inadequacies of the Mexican healthcare system which would prompt expats to repatriate themselves to their home country when a health or financial crisis arises (so that they can take advantage of various government programs). I know a number of expats who, when a serious health issue arises, return to the USA because they lack confidence in the care/facilities they have access to in Mexico. There was a well-known expat in one part of Mexico who published a newsletter extolling the virtues of living in Mexico, the low-cost healthcare, etc., and when he thought he'd had a heart attack he bought a bus ticket back to the Upper Midwest in the USA to have it checked-out (yes, a silly and foolish thing, to my way of thinking). But I will also say that I have a couple of expat friends who no matter the crisis will remain in Mexico - no matter what (Mexico City, that is).


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Maybe, too, there might be a discussion of the possible inadequacies of the Mexican healthcare system which would prompt expats to repatriate themselves to their home country when a health or financial crisis arises (so that they can take advantage of various government programs). I know a number of expats who, when a serious health issue arises, return to the USA because they lack confidence in the care/facilities they have access to in Mexico. There was a well-known expat in one part of Mexico who published a newsletter extolling the virtues of living in Mexico, the low-cost healthcare, etc., and when he thought he'd had a heart attack he bought a bus ticket back to the Upper Midwest in the USA to have it checked-out (yes, a silly and foolish thing, to my way of thinking). But I will also say that I have a couple of expat friends who no matter the crisis will remain in Mexico - no matter what (Mexico City, that is).


I have complete confidence in the health care system in Mexico City and can foresee no reason for returning to the US if something serious happens. Of course, I can't speak for the quality of health care in all parts of the country.


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## Hound Dog

When we considered retiring in the United States,Tucson, possibly parts of New Mexico, the Alabama and Northwest Florida Coasts were among our posible choices and that was about it. We sure as hell were not going to stay in obscenely overpriced San Francisco and no chance we would head north into the Pacific Northwest land of overcast, endless tracts of boring pine forests, rain and drear and way too many pink forlks . 

Tucson´s desert environment appealed to us but turned out, upon exploration to be a typical spread-out expressway laden western town where a car is required to even buy a buscuit and Coke as essential foodstuffs . Endless miles of dull exurbia. Lousy restaurants in general with undefinable food prepared by confused chefs. A central downtown district with no discernable architectural features not easily dismissed as vulgar desert trappings thrown up during some 1940's exuberant constructions by those escaping the East Coast. A town which never has and never will improve the place it settled upon but, rather. vulgarized its environment. The only place I can think of more inappropriate than Tucson is Phoenix - perhaps the ugliest urban conurbation in North America outside of Ciudad Juarez.


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## lagoloo

True, there are many reasons for re-repatriating. What I'd like to see would limit it to those who have to do so for health reasons alone: where they would choose to go and most of all, why that particular place. 
In RV's case, since he isn't happy in Tucson so far, I'd like to know why he chose it?

Personally, I'm staying here till the Grim Reaper calls, since my opinion of health care in the U.S. is not as high as that of others and the hassle of trying to get NOB, locate a doc who takes Medicare patients and finding a place to stay for the duration that's cost effective .....all of this while being sick to begin with, is far more than I'd be up to dealing with.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> Personally, I'm staying here till the Grim Reaper calls, since my opinion of health care in the U.S. is not as high as that of others and the hassle of trying to get NOB, locate a doc who takes Medicare patients and finding a place to stay for the duration that's cost effective .....all of this while being sick to begin with, is far more than I'd be up to dealing with.


Me too!


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> True, there are many reasons for re-repatriating. What I'd like to see would limit it to those who have to do so for health reasons alone: where they would choose to go and most of all, why that particular place.
> In RV's case, since he isn't happy in Tucson so far, I'd like to know why he chose it?


Why not start a new thread asking these questions?


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## Hound Dog

Isla Verde said:


> I have complete confidence in the health care system in Mexico City and can foresee no reason for returning to the US if something serious happens. Of course, I can't speak for the quality of health care in all parts of the country.


We, likewise, have complete confidence in the health care system in Guadalajara - much more so than the San Francisco Bay Area where we lived for some 40 years.. 

When I had my gall bladder removed in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, my insurance company offered to fly me on an emergency flight or free to - my choice - Mexico City, Guadalajara or Monterrey or thje operation. I had that gall bladder removed in a fltlhy hospital in San Cristóbal because I was so sick I would not have even flown up the Street.

I´m still here today - some three years later. Tomorrow is another story.


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## RVGRINGO

We have complete confidence in the health care available in the Guadalajara area and from those specialists who visit the Chapala area clinics; especially cardiologist Dr. Hector Briseño and gastroenterologist Dr. Hector Ali Valenzuela, who have saved my bacon more than once. 
I know that I will not find their equal at the VA, but my wallet dictates that I use that entitlement and/or the BC/BS included in my retirement package, having pretty much used up my out of country benefits with several surgeries in Guadalajara; eleven, to be exact, with multiple heart attacks, half a dozen eye surgeries and two intestinal interventions.
My wife has neither of those options, so must find a Medicare provider. Asi es la vida.


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## Hound Dog

_


RVGRINGO said:



We have complete confidence in the health care available in the Guadalajara area and from those specialists who visit the Chapala area clinics; especially cardiologist Dr. Hector Briseño and gastroenterologist Dr. Hector Ali Valenzuela, who have saved my bacon more than once. 
I know that I will not find their equal at the VA, but my wallet dictates that I use that entitlement and/or the BC/BS included in my retirement package, having pretty much used up my out of country benefits with several surgeries in Guadalajara; eleven, to be exact, with multiple heart attacks, half a dozen eye surgeries and two intestinal interventions.
My wife has neither of those options, so must find a Medicare provider. Asi es la vida.

Click to expand...

_Good luck to you both, RV.


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