# Cold Calling form Financial Organizations



## Andy313 (Feb 9, 2015)

I have been in Dubai 8 months now and I have been inundated with cold calling from so called financial Wealth organizations. How they get my personal details I have no idea, They even know what Pension plan I had in the UK . yes they can read my profile on Linkedin but my personal email and phone numbers are not on there. So far they have refused to tell me where they got my details.
Anyway one of the companies is De Vere and if anyone has an unwanted call from them I have the CEO Nigel Greens Email address which I am quite happy to share with you. That may make them think about their cold calling stategy.


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## thrillHOUSE!! (Oct 19, 2015)

Couple of Options

Hang up
Listen to the stocks and follow the stock (never ever give them money)
Tell them that your wife is an investment banker at ADCB


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

Hang up on them and set up a blocklist on your phone to stop certain numbers getting through. 

It's just part of life here, another aspect you just have to suck up and get on with. Within days of picking up a SIM card, I'd only given my number to my wife and the cold calls started up. When your phone operator sells its own numbers within days you realise there is no privacy of information here.

Time to don the tinfoil hat!


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

Just plan a meeting with them and never show up


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Andy313 said:


> How they get my personal details I have no idea.


New arrivals are a key target market as word may have not yet got round and people generally take a while to get used to the sometime surreptitious ways of the region.

Some companies may buy data everywhere from relocation companies, building security guards through to low paid HR clerks in large companies. If an agent has targeted you specifically or you've shown initial interest, I imagine it wouldn't take much beyond a phone calls or emails to get proper data about you. 

I read on another forum that an agent was actually visiting the brunches and pubs of a particular prospect around town. Seems a bit much but I guess they thought the effort would have been worth it.

Best to just block or ignore and gravitate towards the cold leads list.


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## thrillHOUSE!! (Oct 19, 2015)

Also, never put your business card in one of those bowls at the bar


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

thrillHOUSE!! said:


> Also, never put your business card in one of those bowls at the bar


Indeed, we all get cards from people we don't like or wish to see again - so put theirs in. 

I do, gives me endless hours of fun knowing that the tosser I met in the bar last night (I never hand out my card to people I meet in bars), is getting plagued by Wealth Advisers....


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

thrillHOUSE!! said:


> Also, never put your business card in one of those bowls at the bar


'

Oh, so it's business cards in the bowl now? I thought it was supposed to be car keys


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## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

Froglet said:


> Just plan a meeting with them and never show up


Yep, that really pisses them off --- eventually. Did it twice to the same guy before the brain cells started firing and he realised that I was just wasting his time. The prat couldn't even get my name right.

You should have heard him rant at me, the guys in my office couldn't believe how much I was laughing at someone on the phone.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

LesFroggitts said:


> Yep, that really pisses them off --- eventually. Did it twice to the same guy before the brain cells started firing and he realised that I was just wasting his time. The prat couldn't even get my name right.
> 
> You should have heard him rant at me, the guys in my office couldn't believe how much I was laughing at someone on the phone.


I don't agree with that approach at all, whether you like them or hate them, they're still trying to earn a crust, why waste your and their time, just hang up.


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

They trawl Linkedin getting peoples details - watch who you add.


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## Simey (Dec 4, 2012)

I usually ask them what they know about tax planning for US expats. That usually shuts them up.


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## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

The Rascal said:


> I don't agree with that approach at all, whether you like them or hate them, they're still trying to earn a crust, why waste your and their time, just hang up.


I can afford the 15 minutes it took each time to set up the 'meeting' - having been through all this so many times the time accumulated in simply answering the calls over the years adds up to a lot more than the time of his I wasted - so really they as a 'group/industry' still owe me.

Latest tack I have is to insist that they provide me details of where they got my contact details before I will deem to speak to them - that seems currently to be working.


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## thrillHOUSE!! (Oct 19, 2015)

I've found if you say to them. I won't deal with you as you've cold called me. They get very offended, saying that I've broken the law by asking that question.

So I ask, whats the definition of a cold call. I didn't request this phone call from you nor do I want your services. 

Now, this is pure naviety on my behalf - So feel free to laugh at me.

What do these guys do, they get my money and then what? Is it a pyramid scheme, ponzi scheme. I'd never give any cash to any services like this, but I have no idea what these guys do.


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## Desert Dog (Nov 11, 2012)

I had another call the other day and I said that I will politely decline your offer after telling him I considered his call as spam - smart guy, he did get the message and I guess that he moved on to the next victim!


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## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

thrillHOUSE!! said:


> What do these guys do, they get my money and then what? Is it a pyramid scheme, ponzi scheme. I'd never give any cash to any services like this, but I have no idea what these guys do.


Often they're touting actual investments, especially pension transfers out of the UK, but they're predominantly pushing schemes that whilst legitimate are weighted in favour of the 'agent' rather than the investor. The 'agent' gets all of their commission in the front end of the new investment so that the returns, if any, will only begin a long time down the road.


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

Chocoholic said:


> They trawl Linkedin getting peoples details - watch who you add.


Also, I was registered for a business group meetup thing the other night, the invite list was swarming with DeVere reps so I didn't bother going, it would have been a night of fending off flies at a picnic. Next morning I had LinkedIn invites from these same guys on the invite list. They'll find your details from all over the place.




The Rascal said:


> I don't agree with that approach at all, whether you like them or hate them, they're still trying to earn a crust, why waste your and their time, just hang up.


Nope, I put them in the same box as traffic wardens and the guy that replaces the film in the speed cameras. I have no problems wasting their time, there are many other honourable professions that will earn you a decent crust, nobody is forcing them into a life of cold calling to sell poor investment plans to put bread on the table. Cold callers are people too maaaaan.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

I get these calls weekly and it is annoying, the ones doing the calling are usually the 'coordinators' or appointment makers so I try to be polite when i cut them off as their job is surely ****e most of the time.. given how much money Devere/PIC are making here I don't think emailing the CEO will distract him from his new ferrari much :/ 

I did hear more than once that at their 'meetings' they ask if you know anyone else who might be interested and take contact details there - a few of the calls to me have supposedly been referred by Mr x from company y.


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

I wonder who came up with their dress code consisting ill-fitting shiny suits and spiky shoes?

Do they have a dress code manual?

Tricks to get rid:

1) Claiming to be penniless/bankrupt
2) Shout about data protection and demand to know where they got your details from
3) The old OP trick- a whistle. (I haven't tried this one yet as 1 & 2 have done the trick)


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Dave-o said:


> Nope, I put them in the same box as traffic wardens and the guy that replaces the film in the speed cameras. I have no problems wasting their time, there are many other honourable professions that will earn you a decent crust, nobody is forcing them into a life of cold calling to sell poor investment plans to put bread on the table. Cold callers are people too maaaaan.


Hi,
Before we came to live in Dubai, I registered my CV with the usual recruitment websites in Dubai and I was contacted by one of these annoying companies - offering me a fantastic opportunity to work in Dubai.
They had a training school in Malta and promised to fly me out there and put me in a hotel.
They offered me a potential role in Dubai with a personal assistant to book my appointments and find me sales leads, would arrange accomodation and my visa.
My on target earnings in the first year would be above £100,000.
I was, of course, very interested in this "opportunity" - as it was low risk, full training to be given, only sales experience required (not financial sales).
I did some thorough research - as you sometimes get the feeling that some opportunities seem a bit too good to be true.
Maybe some of the guys cold calling you work for companies like this and they were also sold this wonderful opportunity but are finding the reality a bit harder than the rosy job they signed up for.
For this reason, I don't waste their time by setting up false meetings - I simply tell them to go forth and multiply!
Cheers
Steve


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> For this reason, I don't waste their time by setting up false meetings - I simply tell them to go forth and multiply!


Back as a fresh faced, zitty young oik of a graduate I had a brilliant boss who was full of sayings that have stuck to this day.

'Just tell them to f*** off'
'I can't say that to them, I have to say something more polite than simply f*** off'
'Ask them nicely to f*** off please'


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## thrillHOUSE!! (Oct 19, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> Maybe some of the guys cold calling you work for companies like this and they were also sold this wonderful opportunity but are finding the reality a bit harder than the rosy job they signed up for.


I had a friend who was offered one of these jobs in Beijing. He even had a leaving party, He was offered like £100k a year, bonus, free accommodation etc etc. As a financial sales rep. He didn't have a clue what his job was. 

Of course we were all jealous and interested so we googled the company to find more details. The internet was full of XXXX SCAM, XXXX DO NOT JOINT. The guy was stubborn and refused to take our advice, so we had to tell the dad! He never went.


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## sm105 (Jan 9, 2014)

There are some scummy financial advisers, but to their credit there are actually some decent sorts here. One guy I deal with very specifically does not do cold calls - only works with introductions from existing clients. He listened to what I had to say over the phone (viz. "don't bother me with pension stuff, just bring me decent investment opportunities if you want me to answer your calls"). I tested the waters with a few thousand dollars and he generated ~12% return in a year after his commissions. No hard sell or anything else distasteful - just a professional recommendation of options and quarterly catch up phone calls. I've since increased the amount that he manages for me and so far no complaints either.

The cold callers from other less reputable places can be very annoying though. My strategy is to tell them that I already have an account with their colleague (make up a name). Evidently there is some honour among thieves because that always ends the call right there - strict no poaching rules internally I'm sure.


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## helsgaub (Jun 11, 2015)

thrillHOUSE!! said:


> Also, never put your business card in one of those bowls at the bar


This must be the reason I always get junk calls and never win the unlimited supply of free Burritos...


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## shaunfella (Jul 1, 2013)

Racing_Goats said:


> I get these calls weekly and it is annoying, the ones doing the calling are usually the 'coordinators' or appointment makers so I try to be polite when i cut them off as their job is surely ****e most of the time.. given how much money Devere/PIC are making here I don't think emailing the CEO will distract him from his new ferrari much :/
> 
> I did hear more than once that at their 'meetings' they ask if you know anyone else who might be interested and take contact details there - a few of the calls to me have supposedly been referred by Mr x from company y.


I've had the same 'referrals'...someone in my office has had a meeting and passed on my details.

What really gets my back up is the guys who just proceed to rabble on the second you answer and don't even have the courtesy to say "Is now a good time".

I juts give them the same spiel, "I'll tell you what I tell every other cold caller....I'm not interested and am cutting this call short...Thanks, bye"

sent from my porridge powered deep fried haggis device


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## Nursemanit (Jul 10, 2015)

I have found that they lose interest if you are an American - I have a heavy east coast US accent so they just say " are you an American " I say yes and they practally hang up.


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## UKSingDubai (Jul 25, 2014)

I find the best approach is to say firmly I am already catered for so not interested. Please do not contact me again and take me off your contact list


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## ReefPony (Jun 22, 2015)

Nursemanit said:


> I have found that they lose interest if you are an American - I have a heavy east coast US accent so they just say " are you an American " I say yes and they practally hang up.


That would make sense based on what I've read about these companies. They're interested in the "easy" sale of some sort of pension rollover and aren't interested in actually doing real wealth management work (real wealth management has almost nothing to do with rolling a pension into some sort of annuity).

Here in the US, my approach is to ask whether the adviser is a CFP or a CFA Charterholder and politely explaining that I won't work with a financial adviser/wealth manager that doesn't have at least one of those.


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Nursemanit said:


> I have found that they lose interest if you are an American - I have a heavy east coast US accent so they just say " are you an American " I say yes and they practally hang up.


Works for me a lot of the time as I am a USC, but sometimes they state they're licensed to do it, so I just say I have an adviser.


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## JonInDubai (Jul 16, 2015)

I'm a grown man but they wound me down. I accepted a meeting and ridiculously agreed to a pension via *********. I was overstretched and on investigation the package was completely different to that sold.

The agent was fired, moved to another job, then rang me to ask for power of attorney!

I stopped it after three months, grey hairs and a small financial hit (but one I couldn't afford at the time).

If they want numbers of mates from your meetings, just say you will recommend them if they perform.

I regret being so naive. I'd not touch a cold-caller ever again.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

JonInDubai said:


> I'm a grown man but they wound me down. I accepted a meeting and ridiculously agreed to a pension via *********. I was overstretched and on investigation the package was completely different to that sold.
> 
> The agent was fired, moved to another job, then rang me to ask for power of attorney!
> 
> ...


Hi,
I have a theory - it nearly matches your experience.
Many expats from UK earn more money than they did at home and when they first arrive here are a bit giddy with the thought of a tax fee income.
If these people are successfully targeted before they become streetwise - they can often be persuaded by a slick talking unregulated financial adviser into taking out an offshore pension/investment.
The polices offered have high up front commission to the agents - along with high upfront charges on the policy management fees.
This is because many expats dont actually stay as tax free expats for more than a few years - so the policies sold do not actually make much sense, so they stop paying into them.
The agent does not care - they have already earnt a hefty commission.
The company don't care - they have already earnt a hefty management fee.
The only loser is the mug who took out the policy!
It is as if these policies have been specifically designed to fleece unwise expats.
They are almost like the gym memberships that are easy to start - but hard to cancel, without threat of court action.
Cheers
Steve


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## JonInDubai (Jul 16, 2015)

I was definitely a mug!


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> They are *almost* like the gym memberships that are easy to start - but hard to cancel, without threat of court action.


:spit:


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Stevesolar said:


> The polices offered have high up front commission to the agents - along with high upfront charges on the policy management fees.


Most of the policies being pushed are nothing but commission and fees for three years. That's all they need you to pay into and in a completely unregulated market, will tell you absolutely anything to get you to do that.

Despite these policies being backed by global names, they're actually not allowed in many other countries eg UK, Australia and there often there's criticism that they shouldn't be part of a financial offering at all.

It's all a bit like the 10% Super Lagers that the breweries all produce but don't advertise and like to distance themselves from in their portfolio - "We provided these products because there is a demand, we can't control if they're used unscrupulously or in a way from how we intended"

As for the rogue agent that's been fired.... Everyone from carnies, bookies, casino's and whoever else knows that a slopper can sheer that sheep just a bit further.


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## thrillHOUSE!! (Oct 19, 2015)

Mr Rossi said:


> It's all a bit like the 10% Super Lagers that the breweries all produce but don't advertise and like to distance themselves from in their portfolio - "We provided these products because there is a demand, we can't control if they're used unscrupulously or in a way from how we intended"


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## UKSingDubai (Jul 25, 2014)

JonInDubai said:


> I was definitely a mug!


Thanks for sharing your experience Jon, people need to know. 

When I worked in Singapore when I was new, I nearly agreed to something before pulling out at the last minute which would have left me very stretched. In Dubai it seems worse with a lot more cowboys. I accept that some expats do need financial advice but really I would hesitate here.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

I gotta say, the "Wealth advisor" role is a relatively new one, it was never like this in my day....


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

It's always funny yo listen to a 'wealth advisor' who is half your age, no kids, no pension and who rents his home telling you he knows what he is doing from experience. 

I was always tempted to ask if their Dad was around


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## ReefPony (Jun 22, 2015)

twowheelsgood said:


> It's always funny yo listen to a 'wealth advisor' who is half your age, no kids, no pension and who rents his home telling you he knows what he is doing from experience.
> 
> I was always tempted to ask if their Dad was around


That's a huge problem here in the US, as well. Seems like half the "financial advisors" running around are fresh out of college and went into that field because they couldn't get a good job doing anything else. 

The thing I've learned is that, unless someone is in the private wealth management group at a big investment bank (most actually require a masters level degree or a lot of experience to ever be in a position to talk to a client), most "wealth advisors"/"financial advisors" have very little knowledge about what they're selling... the ones that become successful end up becoming very good salesmen and marketers but rarely ever learn all that much beyond the basics of finance and investing.


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## notdave (Jul 11, 2015)

ReefPony said:


> That's a huge problem here in the US, as well. Seems like half the "financial advisors" running around are fresh out of college and went into that field because they couldn't get a good job doing anything else.
> 
> The thing I've learned is that, unless someone is in the private wealth management group at a big investment bank (most actually require a masters level degree or a lot of experience to ever be in a position to talk to a client), most "wealth advisors"/"financial advisors" have very little knowledge about what they're selling... the ones that become successful end up becoming very good salesmen and marketers but rarely ever learn all that much beyond the basics of finance and investing.


Many of the "wealth managers/advisors" in most of the shadier organisations, and even some of the apparently more respectable ones, (UK & here) share similar primary qualifications. Mainly previous experience of scripted, pressured, commission only sales (double-glazing, Kirby vacs, Encyclopedia Britannica, snake oil of all sorts on "easy monthly terms"). Many of these organisations are nothing more than than glorified, tarted up, boiler room operations.

The notion that the individuals that represent them are *qualified* in any way to provide *any* financial advice is specious at best. They have a job title... but hardly a clue. The thing they are best at it flogging poop like it glitters and generating the maximum commission they can for themselves and their employers. They have little to no interest in your financial well-being at all.


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## Nutter2259 (Nov 1, 2015)

*Con*

A Real Estate Agent in Al Ain (UK Origin) told me that he used to work in one these outfits - just happened to be one that was calling me at the time - based in the ground floor of a significant hotel in Al Ain. His advise was not to go anywhere near them. He had bailed due moral conscience. His words? 

Complete Con!
Beware.


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## Polly English (Jun 7, 2014)

*"Financial/Wealth Advisors" aka Leeches*



Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> I have a theory - it nearly matches your experience.
> Many expats from UK earn more money than they did at home and when they first arrive here are a bit giddy with the thought of a tax fee income.
> If these people are successfully targeted before they become streetwise - they can often be persuaded by a slick talking unregulated financial adviser into taking out an offshore pension/investment.
> ...


This excellent summary should be added to the stickies. I've heard a few sad tales, and there are no depths to which these scum will not sink in order to generate their Victim Lists - look a bit deeper into some of the "just arrived and looking to make some friends" and "just organising a game of footie every week" type threads on here for instance.

In order to set up the mark the scum will also often use a third party individual or group (on commission, like his/her good self) to befriend the victim - a chancer big on the party scene is usual. 

There are cases where they even make it "easier" for the victim by not taking the premium out of their bank account, but setting up a credit card repayment instead!

Victims are often younger, well formally educated but less worldly wise types. Even when the facts are pointed out to them they can't quite believe it and are easily persuaded to continue paying - often feeling they risk offending or loosing their "friends" if they do otherwise....... wanting to believe it will all turn out right in the end. 

The truth is they must say goodbye to what they've already lost and walk away.


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## Polly English (Jun 7, 2014)

JonInDubai said:


> I was definitely a mug!


Not at all!

Give yourself a pat on the back for getting away from them and only loosing three months of payments. 

A lesson well learned ready for the next time one of these low lifes slithers out in front of you.


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

I recently read about an ex-pat's interview experience with one of these organisations (begins with D).

The candidate has a masters degree in finance from a respectable university and has banking work experience.

They weren't that bothered about the degree and experience. They actually felt that her knowledge was somehow "a hindrance as you know too much about various investments and products and that it would *scare away customers as nobody cares*"

They did however like that the candidate was pretty and had a pleasant voice.

It was pretty obvious to the candidate that this was NOT a company you would want to work for...


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## UKSingDubai (Jul 25, 2014)

Dave-o said:


> Also, I was registered for a business group meetup thing the other night, the invite list was swarming with DeVere reps so I didn't bother going, it would have been a night of fending off flies at a picnic. Next morning I had LinkedIn invites from these same guys on the invite list. They'll find your details from all over the place.
> 
> Think I actually went to that event the other week! I left after a short time, there is always an agenda with these things and new people are fresh meat.


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## Shodowmist (Nov 4, 2015)

HI 

I constantly get calls form them and I have been here nearly a year, and the more you say NO, the more they push, and do not listen to what you are saying, so I put the phone down on them..


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## notdave (Jul 11, 2015)

Shodowmist said:


> HI
> 
> I constantly get calls form them and I have been here nearly a year, and the more you say NO, the more they push, and do not listen to what you are saying, so I put the phone down on them..


It is simple...
Your time...
Your Phone...
It does have a p*ss off button on there...

I am sick and tired of these effers ringing up and trying to pretend to be my long lost best mate for about ten seconds (as much as they usually get... before I suss out that they aren't calling me on any work related matters relevant to my having to deal with them)...

The most polite thing they get from me is usually just being hung up on.
Some times they get told where to go... and hung up on as well...

Though... I have to be careful if I am going to do this... I did treat a relevant work call like this once... thankfully he saw that funny side of it


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## johnjones111 (Nov 8, 2015)

QOFE said:


> I recently read about an ex-pat's interview experience with one of these organisations (begins with D).
> 
> The candidate has a masters degree in finance from a respectable university and has banking work experience.
> 
> ...


Perhaps the firm you refer to is DeVere's?

There's a clip on YouTube of the CEO explaining why he prefers employees with no qualifications and experience, because he can train them to do what he wants.

This speech wouldn't be out of place in "The Wolf of Wall Street"!

I don't have enough posts to post a link, but Google is your friend. Search for "deVere Group CEO Nigel Green talks about non-industry applicants "


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

johnjones111 said:


> Perhaps the firm you refer to is DeVere's?
> 
> There's a clip on YouTube of the CEO explaining why he prefers employees with no qualifications and experience, because he can train them to do what he wants.
> 
> ...


No axe to grind there eh?


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## johnjones111 (Nov 8, 2015)

The Rascal said:


> No axe to grind there eh?


No, not really, DeVere are no worse than most of the others in terms of the quality of advice, (it's all crap) they're just more aggressive, better organized, and ruthless with sales staff who don't perform


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