# Can we bypass the civic training while applying for the ten year carte résident?



## van_suso

Hello,

I arrived in France on November 24, 2016 with a passeport talent chercheur and have been living in France continuously with two different passeport talents (chercheur + salarié qualifié entreprise innovante) and recently with a carte séjour profession libérale. Unlike many others, I *never* had to go to OFII for *any* kind of training, at _any_ stage of my stay in France.

Now I'm planning to apply for a *carte résident long durée UE* and I see that one of the requirements is the civic training, which has to be taken over a span of *four (!) *months. But I was wondering whether there's any way to bypass the training and sign such a declaration form, since it's kind of obvious that the training is geared more towards the newcomers in France, who have to go to OFII for such training, but for a person who already lived more than five years, the training should be redundant, especially for people who didn't have to go to OFII in the first place*. Note that I'm not saying that I won't sign a form that'll declare that I'll abode by the rules of the French society, but rather saying that I'd like to sign the form without going through such a training if possible. *After all, such forms should be available online, for example, this one is for the Préfecture du Nord.

Thank you in advance if you could lead me up to some relevant pointers.


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## Franco-Belgian Brit

Never heard of this. Just read up on it. Looks like Brits have to do it.

Hey, Rees-Smog.... a Brexit benefit!!


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## Bevdeforges

van_suso said:


> I see that one of the requirements is the civic training, which has to be taken over a span of *four (!) *months.


Where are you seeing that the training is a requirement for the long term carte de residente? I certainly don't see that as a requirement on the Service Public page you cited. But the best way to handle this is to check the website for the prefecture of the departement where you live. The Service Public site says that you can sign the form/attestation regarding the values. But the only way to be sure is to check and see what your prefecture requires.

Why don't you want to take the training? It's simply 4 day-long sessions and it may be within the power of the prefecture to exempt you from one or all of them if you're judged to be sufficiently integrated. Besides, these classes are low key lecture sorts of things with a fairly long lunch break. You might actually learn something you didn't know. (Seriously, I would have liked to have had the option to take those classes before I got my citizenship.) There are no tests or anything (well, other than the language test).


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## van_suso

Bevdeforges said:


> Where are you seeing that the training is a requirement for the long term carte de residente? I certainly don't see that as a requirement on the Service Public page you cited. But the best way to handle this is to check the website for the prefecture of the departement where you live. The Service Public site says that you can sign the form/attestation regarding the values. But the only way to be sure is to check and see what your prefecture requires.
> 
> Why don't you want to take the training? It's simply 4 day-long sessions and it may be within the power of the prefecture to exempt you from one or all of them if you're judged to be sufficiently integrated. Besides, these classes are low key lecture sorts of things with a fairly long lunch break. You might actually learn something you didn't know. (Seriously, I would have liked to have had the option to take those classes before I got my citizenship.) There are no tests or anything (well, other than the language test).


You're absolutely right in saying that proof of having taken that civic training isn't part of the dossier - while signing the declaration is. I just sent an email to the Paris Préfecture to double check about this exact question.

On a different note, it's not like I don't want to take that training, but I'm concerned about its length - it'll take 4 months, where I can take an A2 test and submit the dossier in a month and half if I start preparing for the A2 now. Waiting 4 months just to have this done training seems like an eternal wait to me...


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## Bevdeforges

It's 4 single day classes that may stretch out over a 4 month period. Things don't happen fast in France - I honestly think that's part of your "test" of proper assimilation. And there is nothing to say that, based on your circumstances, you might not be waived through on one or more of the classes. It depends on how many folks they have to take each one and when and how they can be scheduled. Plus, how relevant they figure each one is or isn't to your situation. Submit your dossier and see what happens.


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## papaia

van_suso said:


> ...since it's kind of obvious that the training is geared more towards the newcomers in France, who have to go to OFII for such training, but for a person who already lived more than five years, the training should be redundant, especially for people who didn't have to go to OFII in the first place*. *


I have recently attended the four OFII organized classes, as newcomer. All participants in my class, except for myself, have been here for longer than me, one of them even for 12yrs (!). When I asked him why he was taking the classes, so late in his "residency" in France, he said that it was finally the time to get a 10yrs residential status, vs the yearly renewals he had to go through since arrival in 2010, especially as his wife just had a kid (more stability, etc.). At the end of the four classes we all got a "Contract D'Integration Republicaine (CIR) - Certificat De Suivi De Formation Civique", which is to be used to (for me) pursue my VLS-TS into a long term residency (applying for nationality, also, as my wife is French), while for all my class colleagues the longer term residency they apparently needed. It sounds to me like you'd like the same, but I may be mistaken ...


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## van_suso

papaia said:


> I have recently attended the four OFII organized classes, as newcomer. All participants in my class, except for myself, have been here for longer than me, one of them even for 12yrs (!). When I asked him why he was taking the classes, so late in his "residency" in France, he said that it was finally the time to get a 10yrs residential status, vs the yearly renewals he had to go through since arrival in 2010, especially as his wife just had a kid (more stability, etc.). At the end of the four classes we all got a "Contract D'Integration Republicaine (CIR) - Certificat De Suivi De Formation Civique", which is to be used to (for me) pursue my VLS-TS into a long term residency (applying for nationality, also, as my wife is French), while for all my class colleagues the longer term residency they apparently needed. It sounds to me like you'd like the same, but I may be mistaken ...


Thank you for sharing your account. May I ask what was the total duration of the four classes, e.g. were all of them done in a month or a few months? Also how did you register for the civic training? Thanks again!


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## papaia

van_suso said:


> Thank you for sharing your account. May I ask what was the total duration of the four classes...


1st: 12/04 (mm/dd) 2021
2nd: 12/18/2021
... holidays break...
3rd: 01/08/2022
4th: 01/22/2022 - day of receipt of confirmation, also (they have the certs pre-printed, so no delay here)
Prepare for full day attendance. They check morning, mid-day and end of day, and disqualify missing people.

I did not register. This was mandated by OFII, on my first session at their office, scheduled post my online validation of my long term visa, but this won't answer your situation. I would personally just check online, call or visit an OFII office. 

HTH


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## RayRay

van_suso said:


> ...On a different note, it's not like I don't want to take that training, but I'm concerned about its length - it'll take 4 months...Waiting 4 months just to have this done training seems like an eternal wait to me...


For what it's worth, from the date on which we were told that our dossier requesting a 10 year residence card was accepted to the day we received the card was over 6 months (pre-corona virus). Getting the dossier approved and accepted took over a month as the Prefecture sent us multiple letters by La Poste, each one requesting one additional document, then one more, then another. In retrospect, it was a very typically French experience.

Best of luck.

Ray


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## van_suso

RayRay said:


> For what it's worth, from the date on which we were told that our dossier requesting a 10 year residence card was accepted to the day we received the card was over 6 months (pre-corona virus). Getting the dossier approved and accepted took over a month as the Prefecture sent us multiple letters by La Poste, each one requesting one additional document, then one more, then another. In retrospect, it was a very typically French experience.
> 
> Best of luck.
> 
> Ray


Thank you for sharing you account. The Paris Préfecture is known to act fast though, as they made my carte séjour Proféssion liberale under* two *months (!), but my dossier submitted was super complete. So if I ay ask, what other documents did your Préfecture ask for on top of the ones already mentioned on this page: Carte de résident de longue durée-UE (étranger en France depuis 5 ans) | service-public.fr And was it the Paris Préfecture for you?


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## RayRay

van_suso said:


> Thank you for sharing you account. The Paris Préfecture is known to act fast though, as they made my carte séjour Proféssion liberale under* two *months (!), but my dossier submitted was super complete. So if I ay ask, what other documents did your Préfecture ask for on top of the ones already mentioned on this page: Carte de résident de longue durée-UE (étranger en France depuis 5 ans) | service-public.fr And was it the Paris Préfecture for you?


Congratulations on the quick turn-around. 

It's been a while since we requested our 10 year card...I am certain that I had to provide the prior 5 years of our French tax filings (two separate times, same documents). I seem to remember having to submit several months of bank statements from our French bank. There was a third set of documents which I now don't remember. 

Before we requested our 10 year card, we were typically returning to the Prefecture to provide additional documents at most once and twice not at all. For the 10 year card, I went back 6 times. 

Best of luck.

Ray


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## BackinFrance

van_suso said:


> Thank you for sharing you account. The Paris Préfecture is known to act fast though, as they made my carte séjour Proféssion liberale under* two *months (!), but my dossier submitted was super complete. So if I ay ask, what other documents did your Préfecture ask for on top of the ones already mentioned on this page: Carte de résident de longue durée-UE (étranger en France depuis 5 ans) | service-public.fr And was it the Paris Préfecture for you?


As I understand it, the 10 year resident card gives you greater rights than your carte de séjour profession libérale, so the turnaround time may not be as fast.


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## Bevdeforges

I don't believe that Ray went through the Paris Prefecture, though. The other thing is that you may find that what "additional" documents they ask you for will depend on the type of carte de séjour you have held these last few years. I suspect the differences between someone like Ray who has been living on a visiteur CDS will be different from someone living on a "professional" CDS due to the difference in circumstances. Or it may simply be a matter of how backlogged the particular prefecture is (or isn't).


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## van_suso

I asked the question here as well:









Le formulaire 'engagement à respecter les principes qui régissent la république - Résolue par Maitre Etienne CHERON - Posée par van_suso_101


Vous pouvez tous les utiliser ou même rédiger vous même dès lors que vous vous engagez si votre préfecture a prévu un formulaire, peut être vaut-il mieux prendre le leur. merci d'indiquer si j'ai répondu à votre question bien cordialement - Résolue par Maitre Etienne CHERON - Posée par van_suso_101




www.alexia.fr


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## MoldyHenry

I had to take it. Actually it was pretty fun, but on the other hand kind of a joke.
Watch out for the lady that sez you can't get a 10 yr visa. There was a guy wearing cowboy boots that saved us from this employee who seems determined to deny people. Luckily I'm so old I didn't to pass the language test.


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