# Limited pension



## Mickeyfinch (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi we're thinking of moving to spain but have a limited income.would £14,000 per year be enough.i know it's not a fortune but we have no idea about the cost of living


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Mickeyfinch said:


> Hi we're thinking of moving to spain but have a limited income.would £14,000 per year be enough.i know it's not a fortune but we have no idea about the cost of living


Can you live on this amount at home in the Uk?

That would be the first question I would ask myself.

Also are you buying or renting, will you need a car, where will you live, in town, by the beach or out in the sticks. All of these things will have an impact.


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## Mickeyfinch (Jun 29, 2014)

We would be buying our house about £250,000 we have the money for this. We have a small car but would like to swop it for lhdrive. About I hour from the sea .weve looked at villas and we think the prices are ok. Anything else I forgot?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Mickeyfinch said:


> We would be buying our house about £250,000 we have the money for this. We have a small car but would like to swop it for lhdrive. About I hour from the sea .weve looked at villas and we think the prices are ok. Anything else I forgot?


If you only want to be about one hour from the sea, then there are VERY much cheaper options.

Around here we are about 40 minutes from the coast at Gandia/Oliva. A very nice villa would set you back less than 200k euros so about £180k. This would then leave a little extra in the pot for emergencies.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mickeyfinch said:


> We would be buying our house about £250,000 we have the money for this. We have a small car but would like to swop it for lhdrive. About I hour from the sea .weve looked at villas and we think the prices are ok. Anything else I forgot?


:welcome:

There isn't a huge difference in the overall cost of living between the two countries now

Some areas will be cheaper, some not. A good rule of thumb is, if you can live on that figure in the UK, you can here


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Mickeyfinch said:


> Hi we're thinking of moving to spain but have a limited income.would £14,000 per year be enough.i know it's not a fortune but we have no idea about the cost of living


You can buy a 3-bedroom house in an inland town like mine, 45 minutes from the coast, with a community pool and mountain views, for around £100k - especially now that the exchange rate is good. But really you'd be better off renting; the same house would cost €350 a month to rent, and you have more flexibility to move on if you find the place isn't right for you.

Can you live on €14,000? It will be tight, but definitely doable if you are prepared to adapt your lifestyle.

Petrol is really expensive, about the same as UK now I think. Find somewhere you can do your shopping and socialising without needing to drive far. 

Electricity is dearer than in the UK and is our biggest cost. You will need to heat your house in the winter (even though it's sunny and warm outside in the afternoons, it can be freezing inside!) Learn to adapt by putting on extra layers rather than switching on the heating.

Internet is also expensive but pretty well essential for keeping in touch with friends and family "back home". Shop around for the best deal, often local councils have a special scheme.

Flights to the UK are expensive at peak times like Christmas. Cut down on trips home by getting people to visit you here, or move your Christmas to January!

Learn to cook and enjoy Spanish food, especially fresh vegetables. Don't try and find what you ate at home, it will probably cost more here. If you eat out, go at lunchtime (2 pm) for the best deals, e.g. three courses and a drink for 7 or 8 euros.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Mickeyfinch said:


> Hi we're thinking of moving to spain but have a limited income.would £14,000 per year be enough.i know it's not a fortune but we have no idea about the cost of living


Your question is too general. It depends on your age, circumstances, and other factors too numerous to mention.you need to give us a more detailed picture.
If not a state pensioner, you would be paying for your health care, whether private, or into the new scheme where early retirees pay into the Spanish NHS
Being resident here will have tax implications, as you will pay your income tax here, apart from government pensions.the whole subject is so big, you should do research on it, then make your mind up if you want to live here.
You will find lots of opinions and experiences on this, and other forums, but for actual information, you need to ask the DWP,HMRC etc and seek advice from a financial advisor inSpain, of which there are many.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Mickeyfinch said:


> We would be buying our house about £250,000 we have the money for this. We have a small car but would like to swop it for lhdrive. About I hour from the sea .weve looked at villas and we think the prices are ok. Anything else I forgot?


Don't buy property, prices will be falling for a while and when they bottom out there will still be hundreds of thousands of empty properties not sold. If you had to return to the UK and *IF* you found a buyer the likelihood is you'd loose a wad of cash.

Andalucia property for rent in Andalucia properties for rent Spain Andalucia real estate Spend some time on Thinkspain and see what you can rent.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Personally I think petrol is cheaper here than UK. Average cost for diesel in UK is €1.69 (source AA and converted to euros at 1.25) and I pay €1.26 a litre; petrol is dearer here than diesel and is around €1.37 a litre around here. We have English friends who own a villa close to us and they arrived three days ago for a break; their comment on food shopping was how incredibly cheap they find it compared to UK. Alcohol remains at silly prices here so I guess you could just skip food although having seen many Brits who live here and seem to do just that I wouldn't advise it as a lifestyle...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> Don't buy property, prices will be falling for a while and when they bottom out there will still be hundreds of thousands of empty properties not sold. If you had to return to the UK and *IF* you found a buyer the likelihood is you'd loose a wad of cash.
> 
> Andalucia property for rent in Andalucia properties for rent Spain Andalucia real estate Spend some time on Thinkspain and see what you can rent.


not just on that website

there are links to several rental sites here, in the section about renting



http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.htmlhttp://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Mickeyfinch said:


> Hi we're thinking of moving to spain but have a limited income.would £14,000 per year be enough.i know it's not a fortune but we have no idea about the cost of living


I you're not paying rent (you've bought your own property) an income of £14,000 a year would be more than enough to live on in my opinion—but it does depend on your lifestyle. 

If you have £250,000 to put into a property and an annual income of £14,000 per year to live on—living in Spain at a reasonable level of comfort would be perfectly reasonable and achievable.

You may want to consider only putting £150,000 into property and putting the other £100,000 in the bank or invested as you can still buy a very nice property not far from the coast for £150k. 

In my opinion the overall cost of living in Spain is still lower than the UK. Some things will be more expensive but many will be much cheaper—it depends a lot on your lifestyle.

I strongly suggest and urge you to sit down and do some serious research on Spain—particularly property prices and areas and how and why the prices vary, the buying process and the bureaucracy involved and the healthcare provision.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

thrax said:


> Personally I think petrol is cheaper here than UK. Average cost for diesel in UK is €1.69 (source AA and converted to euros at 1.25) and I pay €1.26 a litre; petrol is dearer here than diesel and is around €1.37 a litre around here.


The price for unleaded petrol per litre back here in the UK where I am is £1.31. Converted into euros is 1.31 x 1.20 = €1.57.


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

We've been here 10 years and manage well on around that figure, although dont go out that much for meals normally about once/twice a week for menu del dia and most mornings for coffee. We did buy but in hind sight and think if moving over now pretty sure we would rent as you never know whats round the next corner. We love it here and am not thinking about returning to UK but if things changed feel it would be very difficult to sell up and return.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

A lot of families here would like to have 1500 euros month like you to live .


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Why do we get "millionaires" come on here and say can I manage on a small fortune? 

We bought our house, cash and manage quite comfortably on about €650 per month - we being 3 adults and two dogs. We manage to take two holidays per year and run a small MPV (Peugeot Partner) that is economical and does what we need - i.e. carry up to five people plus their luggage, with the option to carry a load as well (we brought all our kitchen units home [flatpack] in the back). Not only are most foodstuffs here as cheap as, if not cheaper than, UK, the quality and freshness is far superior (there are a few exceptions, but you work round those). You have to learn to adapt to what is available locally, for example, I haven't seen too much in the way of Beluga Caviar around here but with many Russians buying in some parts, the shops might start stocking it.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

zenkarma said:


> The price for unleaded petrol per litre back here in the UK where I am is £1.31. Converted into euros is 1.31 x 1.20 = €1.57.


Exchange rate is currently 1.25 which converts to €1.63


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Petrol in most places here is around 1,66€.
Probably why 85% of the vehicles in Spain are diesel.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

We are just back after spending ten days looking and in some ways preparing for our move. We rented a nice villa near Velez-Malaga and checked out various places. We shopped at the Mercadona and Eroski also at a market, we found the cost of living in respect of food stuff very much cheaper than here in the Uk. Also the price of diesel was a lot cheaper. I really don't get it when some people think the cost of living is on a par with the UK. I know the Internet and electricity might be a bit more but that is a dip in the ocean in the household budget.

If we sold our house here we would be in a very similar position to the OP. We will rent out our house here and add the rent to my works pension and then rent in Spain until we are sure which way to go.

I think the post by baldilocks is very encouraging and realistic.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Roy C said:


> We are just back after spending ten days looking and in some ways preparing for our move. We rented a nice villa near Velez-Malaga and checked out various places. We shopped at the Mercadona and Eroski also at a market, we found the cost of living in respect of food stuff very much cheaper than here in the Uk. Also the price of diesel was a lot cheaper. I really don't get it when some people think the cost of living is on a par with the UK. I know the Internet and electricity might be a bit more but that is a dip in the ocean in the household budget.
> 
> If we sold our house here we would be in a very similar position to the OP. We will rent out our house here and add the rent to my works pension and then rent in Spain until we are sure which way to go.
> 
> I think the post by baldilocks is very encouraging and realistic.


I agree you can live more cheaply here, if you are prepared to adapt your lifestyle. But I'm not sure how realistic it is to suggest three people and a dog can live on €650 a month. Sure, you can eat very cheaply especially if you are lucky enough to be able to grow your own food, like Baldi does. But what happens if you need to fork out on repairs or make an emergency trip to the UK? 

We are a retired couple and our fixed bills (internet, phone, gas, electricity, rates, insurance etc) come to over €200 a month, plus petrol average €100 a month. We spend very little on new clothes or socialising - our biggest "non-essential" expenditure is books - yet I doubt we could live comfortably on less than €1200 a month.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

In my experience:

1. No council tax as such, bins and council rates much cheaper than UK
2. Electricity cheaper, Gas much cheaper, water tons cheaper
3. Car tax 87€ instead of £250. MOT every 2 years. Matriculated my car for 500€ so will pay for itself in a couple of years with the savings. RHD not a problem, but has to be the right car and get the timing right to do it so cheaply.
4. Friendlier people around me
5. Cheaper to eat out, but don't do this a lot really. Cheap beer and coffee and a tapa for just over 1€. Lovely going down to the playa 10 mins away and having a coffee at our favourite bar watching the sea and the world go by.
6. Bought my house to live in and a similar house round the corner recently went for more than I paid for mine. It's alright saying that there's loads of empty houses not selling, but get it into perspective, no one's going to buy an empty house in an empty block with no one around, even for peanuts. People will buy if there are friendly people around they can relate to and if there are good local facilities nearby.

One negative. Iceland's prices!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Add to that how grumpy the staff are at Iceland. Went there once, never again.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I agree you can live more cheaply here, if you are prepared to adapt your lifestyle. But I'm not sure how realistic it is to suggest three people and a dog can live on €650 a month. Sure, you can eat very cheaply especially if you are lucky enough to be able to grow your own food, like Baldi does. But what happens if you need to fork out on repairs or make an emergency trip to the UK?
> 
> We are a retired couple and our fixed bills (internet, phone, gas, electricity, rates, insurance etc) come to over €200 a month, plus petrol average €100 a month. We spend very little on new clothes or socialising - our biggest "non-essential" expenditure is books - yet I doubt we could live comfortably on less than €1200 a month.


We don't grow our own (we do get given some stuff but it doesn't make much difference to the shopping bills since we usually repay with other things). 

What on earth do you spend so much on? Out of your €1200, you have accounted for just €300. That is similar to our normal bills. Likewise we spend very little on new clothes or socialising. I am still wearing shirts issued by the company I last worked for and have been asked twice whether I work for Arriva - they are perfectly good shirts so why throw them out? 

We have no need to go to UK or any other country and as I said we manage to go away for holidays twice a year (rent an apartment/cottage), changed our car last year for one that was only three years old, we have had a new roof put on the house, gone onto solar hot water, refurbished and insulated the attic to make it more usable, especially in the winter (it is heated by a bleed off the flue from the log burner and therefore costs nothing to heat) and gives another 42m² space. We very rarely eat out (home cooking enables fads, fancies and diets to be dealt with much more easily). Next project is to enlarge the outside store-room and also put in a water softener.


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## silverfox1 (Apr 24, 2013)

Baldilocks, I can just imagine you in your Arriva hat, shouting "I hate you Butler" and telling your visitors "move along the villa please, full up downstairs but room on top"


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

thrax said:


> Add to that how grumpy the staff are at Iceland. Went there once, never again.


They're ok near us, but they have this habit of occasionally misleading you on prices i.e. the price at the freezer isn't the price of the product so you always have to make sure that if it's not actually marked on the product, you remember what it was on the shelf/freezer.

Also, they often don't honour a 2 for 1 offer. For example I saw some mushy peas which had 2 for 1 on the can, but at iceland you had to pay an extra charge to get the 2 for 1 offer. I think this is wrong. I told them so as well but all they could say was that it was still cheaper than buying two at full price. Technically correct but not really the point... Anyway I don't wish to hijack the thread!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We've been living on the exact same figure as the OP quoted (£14,000 pa) for the past few years whilst waiting for our pensions to become payable.

We own our house so no rent or mortgage to pay. We don't have a car as we live somewhere with excellent public transport links and bus and train fares in Spain are extremely cheap compared to the UK.

We have been paying for private health insurance of €110 per month out of our income. Our Council Tax, electricity, gas and water costs are all lower than we were used to paying in the UK (Council Tax, although it has gone up quite a bit over the 8 years we've been here, is still only a quarter of what we were paying in the UK when we left in 2006 - and our house here is quite a bit bigger). 

We've been able to reduce our internet costs quite substantially this year as we've been able to switch to a cable provider and now have a 20mbps connection for €18 per month, otherwise broadband is more expensive than in the UK and unless you live on the Costa Blanca a decent connection is essential for watching UK tv - you save on the licence fee though! We don't have a landline phone but use a PAYG mobile in conjunction with localphone for all our calls (mostly to the UK) and don't spend more than €10 for six weeks (€10 credit with Vodafone gives us 100 mins of free calls which lasts for 30 days and when that runs out we use up the €10 credit).

Out of the £14,000 pa we have at least 3 short breaks in Spain, travelling either on domestic flights or by rail, and normally a couple of 1 night hotel stays as well, and I fly back to the UK to visit family and shop twice a year (OH prefers to stay here).

I've just come back from 11 days in Manchester and some food in the shops seemed quite cheap, but I was horrified to pay over £11 for a pizza and over £6 for a large glass of wine in Pizza Express when I met up with some friends!
Coffee everywhere I went was over £2 and tasted like mud, too, I'm glad to get back to my €1 cafe con leche! I did enjoy buying clothes and new bedlinen over there, though. A single rail journey from Manchester Airport into the city centre cost £4.10 compared to €1.75 from Malaga Airport into the centre.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> We don't grow our own (we do get given some stuff but it doesn't make much difference to the shopping bills since we usually repay with other things).
> 
> What on earth do you spend so much on? Out of your €1200, you have accounted for just €300. That is similar to our normal bills. Likewise we spend very little on new clothes or socialising. I am still wearing shirts issued by the company I last worked for and have been asked twice whether I work for Arriva - they are perfectly good shirts so why throw them out?
> 
> We have no need to go to UK or any other country and as I said we manage to go away for holidays twice a year (rent an apartment/cottage), changed our car last year for one that was only three years old, we have had a new roof put on the house, gone onto solar hot water, refurbished and insulated the attic to make it more usable, especially in the winter (it is heated by a bleed off the flue from the log burner and therefore costs nothing to heat) and gives another 42m² space. We very rarely eat out (home cooking enables fads, fancies and diets to be dealt with much more easily). Next project is to enlarge the outside store-room and also put in a water softener.


Sorry, I thought you had a huerto because of things you said on the cooking and gardening thread about bottling your own fruit etc.

You might not ever need to go to the UK, but others, especially those with elderly relatives, have to factor unavoidable urgent trips into their contingency budgets. You can't always plan ahead and get cheap fares.

As for where the money goes: we had our house painted recently - in a pueblo blanco you have to keep them sparkling white - €1250. Not bad for a detached three-storey house with lots of balconies and railings. Then €400 for something complicated on the car, can't remember the details. €50 on a new kitchen tap. €120 on petrol last month alone for visits to medical specialist 40 km away.
About €100 a week for food and drink, including alcoholic beverages and cat stuff. You could live on less but I buy top quality meat and cheese rather than the cheaper options. €150 on a new camera with a super zoom lens because I like birdwatching. A mountain of books for the OH who devours them like sweets.


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

It really does depend on individual lifestyle. We earned very decent salaries in the UK (and had all the trappings to go with it). When we decided to move to Spain, I yearned for a simple existence. For a couple of years we did just that (well had no choice really). But a few years in, I missed not being able to 'splurge' on handbags and shoes without looking at the price tag, I wanted an ipad (and an iphone). I missed fine dining with decent wines, as opposed to a menu del dia. Thankfully we had savings which could accommodate my 'whims'!!! So whilst I do agree with the previous poster that it is indeed cheaper to live in Spain on a day to day basis. Factor into your budget those 'little' luxuries, whatever they may be, that initially you may feel you can do with out, but long term you will probably miss.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Many people have to go to the UK several times a year, funerals , weddings, celebrations or just because you miss the family. That makes a big hole in the budget even if you get a bargain flight. You treat yourself, grandchildren , buy stuff to bring back ,meals out etc. It negates any savings you make on Council tax.
Dunpleecin- don't think many will agree that electricity, gas and water are cheaper, certainly water isn't tons cheaper, and electricity is very expensive.
Why do people rave about fresh fruit and veg? When I do get it from the market, it is no better than anything I used to get at Tescos, in fact it's often slightly wlted from being on a stall in hot weather for hours, instead of an air conditioned store.
Alcohol,****,car tax, council tax, petrol and diesel,menus del dia are cheaper, not much else is.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Chica22 said:


> It really does depend on individual lifestyle. We earned very decent salaries in the UK (and had all the trappings to go with it). When we decided to move to Spain, I yearned for a simple existence. For a couple of years we did just that (well had no choice really). But a few years in, I missed not being able to 'splurge' on handbags and shoes without looking at the price tag, I wanted an ipad (and an iphone). I missed fine dining with decent wines, as opposed to a menu del dia. Thankfully we had savings which could accommodate my 'whims'!!! So whilst I do agree with the previous poster that it is indeed cheaper to live in Spain on a day to day basis. Factor into your budget those 'little' luxuries, whatever they may be, that initially you may feel you can do with out, but long term you will probably miss.


You have approached things from the wrong angle. Nine months after arriving, we did a trip back to the UK (by car) and stocked up on those things we just* could not do without*, now we realise *we can do without* most of them. Odd trip to Iceland or get somebody who is going anyway to get "Flora Light" (lowest saturated fat) or Atora vegetable suet and that's it. Everything else can be sourced locally. As for Extranjero's wilted lettuce, etc. getting to the market too late is the problem and don't go to the market traders' stalls, go to the area served by the locals who are selling stuff off their huertos (the traders' stuff would have been picked yesterday, the locals will have picked their that morning at 5 or 6am so may be almost a day fresher.) As for fripperies, if you can afford them good for you, but most of us trying to live without cares which means not wasting money on something that isn't really necessary. There are no family members to go to UK for so we have no need and most of the essentials (e.g. M&S underwear) can be bought on-line.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Many people have to go to the UK several times a year, funerals , weddings, celebrations or just because you miss the family. That makes a big hole in the budget even if you get a bargain flight. You treat yourself, grandchildren , buy stuff to bring back ,meals out etc. It negates any savings you make on Council tax.
> Dunpleecin- don't think many will agree that electricity, gas and water are cheaper, certainly water isn't tons cheaper, and electricity is very expensive.
> Why do people rave about fresh fruit and veg? When I do get it from the market, it is no better than anything I used to get at Tescos, in fact it's often slightly wlted from being on a stall in hot weather for hours, instead of an air conditioned store.
> Alcohol,****,car tax, council tax, petrol and diesel,menus del dia are cheaper, not much else is.


I manage to go to the UK at least twice a year (some years we've been more than that if we've had to go to a family wedding or funeral) out of £14,000 a year - and buy stuff to bring back. 

I certainly spend less on electricity, gas and water than I did in the UK - not least because I don't need to heat my house for more than 4 months of the year, rather than putting my central heating on in August as we had to the year that we left the UK.

Fruit and vegetables? On Saturday I bought cherries in Tesco - £1 for 250g. This morning I bought some more in a local fruteria - €1.50 for 1kilo, ie almost a quarter of the UK equivalent price (and the ones bought in Spain were infinitely better). Of course shopping for fruit and veg is much more seasonally based than it is in the UK, what's not in season is either not available or if it is, it's expensive.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

extranjero said:


> Why do people rave about fresh fruit and veg? When I do get it from the market, it is no better than anything I used to get at Tescos, in fact it's often slightly wlted from being on a stall in hot weather for hours, instead of an air conditioned store.
> Alcohol,****,car tax, council tax, petrol and diesel,menus del dia are cheaper, not much else is.


Wash your tired lettuce leaves in icy water and a squirt of lemon, then leave in a plastic bag in the fridge for a while. They'll soon perk up.


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> You have approached things from the wrong angle. Nine months after arriving, we did a trip back to the UK (by car) and stocked up on those things we just* could not do without*, now we realise *we can do without* most of them. Odd trip to Iceland or get somebody who is going anyway to get "Flora Light" (lowest saturated fat) or Atora vegetable suet and that's it. Everything else can be sourced locally. As for Extranjero's wilted lettuce, etc. getting to the market too late is the problem and don't go to the market traders' stalls, go to the area served by the locals who are selling stuff off their huertos (the traders' stuff would have been picked yesterday, the locals will have picked their that morning at 5 or 6am so may be almost a day fresher.) As for fripperies, if you can afford them good for you, but most of us trying to live without cares which means not wasting money on something that isn't really necessary. There are no family members to go to UK for so we have no need and most of the essentials (e.g. M&S underwear) can be bought on-line.


I certainly did not approach moving to Spain from the 'wrong angle' There is not a single item of food or clothing I miss from the UK and I would certainly never venture into Iceland, the type of food they sell is not for me, and I would deem visiting Iceland as wasting money on something that isnt really necessary, so each individual is different and has to determine what is important to them.

The point of my post was, it may seem ideal to live on a low budget, but it is not for everyone and certainly not for me. Each person is individual, and items which you may deem as 'fripperies', for me, they make my life happier. So for anyone who is thinking to relocate to Spain, and reducing their income substantially, it is important, in my view, to determine what purchases in life make a difference between a meagre existance and making life more enjoyable,


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It's always comforting to know you can live on very little if you have to (of course it's not always a lifestyle choice). But I see no point in depriving oneself of things that make life easier or more fun, if you can afford it. Frugality as a virtue is a bizarre concept.


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## Crab eater (Sep 13, 2013)

I know it's all a matter of preference and circumstance, but if I wanted to live the existence of a monk I don't think I would have come to spain for it !


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Each to their own......


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## Mickeyfinch (Jun 29, 2014)

*Cost of utilities*

Hi I posted a thread about living I spain on a Pension. I need as much information about living costs as pos . I intend to buy a two bed villa About £250,000.
Could anyone give us an idea of monthly costs.ie taxes ,utilities,food,or any other monthly ongoing costs. I know it's a bit vague but I need to know if we can Fford to move on my pension.is there the equivalent of council tax in spain?


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Cost of Living in Spain: February 2014 | East of Málaga

Try this, very informative, well I thought so...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry, I thought you had a huerto because of things you said on the cooking and gardening thread about bottling your own fruit etc.
> 
> You might not ever need to go to the UK, but others, especially those with elderly relatives, have to factor unavoidable urgent trips into their contingency budgets. You can't always plan ahead and get cheap fares.
> 
> ...


Basing the affordability of living in Spain exclusively on weekly / monthly expenses is very misleading. You have to factor in all the other expenses, like the ones you mention above. So in addition to food, utilities, fuel there are things like house repairs, insurances, replacement of household items, car repairs,hairdresser, dental treatment - that can set you back €000s - as well as trips to the UK or holidays. 
Not all of us are as frugal as Baldy clothing wise either!

I think that to be secure you need a substantial bank deposit of at the very very least €10 - 15k- and a couple of hundred euros mínimum left over from your monthly income. After all, if you are reliant on your own transport, replacing a smashed or worn- out vehicle will cost you.

To me the whole point of retirement is to live without stress or worry, especially of the financial kind. It can't be much fun if you have to count every last cent and be constantly worrying as to whether you can afford something or other.
In away, the very fact that the question ' Can I afford to live in Spain?' needs to be asked in the first place means that the questioner needs to give it a lot of thought.

And of course, as someone has already said, it all depends on your lifestyle and expectations. It also depends on how you lived in the UK.
We chose to live in a large rented house near the sea in an expensive area, because my son and dil have property here. So we spend more than some people's monthly income on rent alone. That's our choice and we are brazen unrepentant SKINs too.
But tbh if we had settled elsewhere we could have rented a similar property for half the cost. Our weekly living expenses are not that high except for what wevspend on animals....we have two large dogs and my OH buys food for half the stray cats in the village.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chica22 said:


> It really does depend on individual lifestyle. We earned very decent salaries in the UK (and had all the trappings to go with it). When we decided to move to Spain, I yearned for a simple existence. For a couple of years we did just that (well had no choice really). But a few years in, I missed not being able to 'splurge' on handbags and shoes without looking at the price tag, I wanted an ipad (and an iphone). I missed fine dining with decent wines, as opposed to a menu del dia. Thankfully we had savings which could accommodate my 'whims'!!! So whilst I do agree with the previous poster that it is indeed cheaper to live in Spain on a day to day basis. Factor into your budget those 'little' luxuries, whatever they may be, that initially you may feel you can do with out, but long term you will probably miss.


That sums up my feelings exactly! We had good incomes and a nice house in the UK and no way did we intend to downsize when we left the UK. I don't splurge on bags or clothes but if I wanted to it's nice to know I could. Same with choosing a 'good' wine over the house plonk.
Some of us had to forego many of life's so- called luxuries and prioritise expenditure whilst earning the means to enable us to retire in comfort, wherever that may be.
When we were younger and travelled around we stayed in some quite disgusting cheap hotels. It was all we could afford and we wanted to see the world. Now we go away rarely but when we do it is in comfort. When you and your partner have clocked up almost seventy- five years of work between you a little of what you fancy is in order, methinks


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That sums up my feelings exactly! We had good incomes and a nice house in the UK and no way did we intend to downsize when we left the UK. I don't splurge on bags or clothes but if I wanted to it's nice to know I could. Same with choosing a 'good' wine over the house plonk.
> Some of us had to forego many of life's so- called luxuries and prioritise expenditure whilst earning the means to enable us to retire in comfort, wherever that may be.
> When we were younger and travelled around we stayed in some quite disgusting cheap hotels. It was all we could afford and we wanted to see the world. Now we go away rarely but when we do it is in comfort. When you and your partner have clocked up almost seventy- five years of work between you a little of what you fancy is in order, methinks


We didn't down-size at all - we went from a one-bedroomed flat (on a mortgage) to a 4/5 BR, 2 Ba, house on five levels including a 42m² house (bought for cash), we also went from a double income initially down to just my OAP (for three of us including the _suegra_) so we cut out *unnecessary* expenditure and we live quite comfortably on just €650 per month and feel that we miss nothing nor do we want for anything. OK I'm still using uniform shirts from past employment but if I'm just knocking around and not going anywhere special that warrants getting dressed-up, does it matter, I'm comfortable.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I think that to be secure you need a substantial bank deposit of at the very very least €10 - 15k- and a couple of hundred euros mínimum left over from your monthly income. After all, if you are reliant on your own transport, replacing a smashed or worn- out vehicle will cost you.
> 
> To me the whole point of retirement is to live without stress or worry, especially of the financial kind. It can't be much fun if you have to count every last cent and be constantly worrying as to whether you can afford something or other.


Very true. Another good reason for making sure you have a financial "cushion" (in your monthly budget as well as a lump sum on deposit) is to enable you to cope with exchange rate fluctuations. I'm sure none of us want to see what happened in 2008 repeated, but it could happen. I think that substantial and fairly rapid drop in people's disposable income was what accounted, in the main, for them thinking that life in Spain had become too expensive for them.

For myself, I "traded" 10 extra years of freedom for a higher income, by giving up my job at the age of 50 to come here. I couldn't have moved to a bigger house with nicer views, in an area of the UK which had a better climate than where I lived, and been able to give up work. We saw it as a series of "phases":-

Phase 1 - the first 3 years, when we had no income coming in at all, were the ones when we had to watch what we were spending, although we had money left over after the bills had been paid for at least some non-essentials.
Phase 2 - when my OH started to draw his small Local Government Pension and we could be a bit more relaxed about spending and take more breaks.
Phase 3 - when my OH starts to draw his state pension and another occupational pension, meaning that we wouldn't need to deplete our capital any more, was supposed to start at the end of this year, but by a stroke of extraordinary good fortune we'll be able to go directly to the next phase instead
Phase 4 - I get my main occupational pension and a lump sum, we don't have to pay for private health insurance any more and our disposable income goes up by about 60%.
Phase 5 - comes in 2016 when I get my small Civil Service pension and two small private pensions (with more lump sums), so another "pay rise" for us.
Phase 6, the last one, starts in 2021 when I get my state pension (if I'm still alive and the state pension still exists!).

So we came with a limited income initially, but knowing that would go up over time so that we're gradually feeling better off. I find I don't feel the need to spend in the same way I used to, though, I think I was just "treating myself" because I was miserable and stressed all the time.


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

These posts sum up exactly how individual we are. We moved from a 5 bedroomed house in the UK, to a two bed one bathroom apartment on the beach whilst deciding where and what we should buy.

That first year here, I was incredibly happy, minimal cleaning, direct access to the beach, living in an old pair of shorts and flip flops and even sharing a bathroom with my OH. I certainly did not miss a larger property. Our costs were minimal, (electricity, IBI etc.). We very rarely went out to eat, as we had left behind a hectic lifestyle, and the small pleasures of being able to read a book, and sunbathe were sufficient.

After a few years we gradually started to miss, and acquire some of the 'fripperies!!!' we had in the UK. We have very few holidays, but when we do, prefer to stay in 'interesting and luxurious' surroundings, otherwise, in my view, we may as well stay at home. 

It is difficult to advise people on living costs. Some people, for example, will have very low electric bills, others will use aircon, pool pumps and can have quadruple the bills of others.

A good example is a weekly shopping bill. My weekly bill is half what it is in the UK, but we were prone to go to M & S or Waitrose for Seabass, King prawns, mussels ect. and did not have a limited budget. 

We eat exactly the same type of food here but for half the price. Following a debate with a friend who believed that food was now far cheaper in the UK than in Spain, I did a standard weekly shop online at Tescos,(including a couple of bottles of decent wine) and was shocked with a bill of nearly 200 pounds. This was due to the type of food we eat. 

Others may spend far more on food in Spain if they shop in Iceland or other shops that sell UK products. It is quite simple to compare a weekly bill using say Tesco and Mercadona as comparisons, then factor in other weekly items.

There will also be regional differences for some items. A good example of this is a cup of coffee approx 1 euro/1.20 where we live, so I was shocked to go last week to the airport and pay 9.85 euros for 3 coffees!!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> Very true. Another good reason for making sure you have a financial "cushion" (in your monthly budget as well as a lump sum on deposit) is to enable you to cope with exchange rate fluctuations. I'm sure none of us want to see what happened in 2008 repeated, but it could happen. I think that substantial and fairly rapid drop in people's disposable income was what accounted, in the main, for them thinking that life in Spain had become too expensive for them.
> 
> For myself, I "traded" 10 extra years of freedom for a higher income, by giving up my job at the age of 50 to come here. I couldn't have moved to a bigger house with nicer views, in an area of the UK which had a better climate than where I lived, and been able to give up work. We saw it as a series of "phases":-
> 
> ...


One day, Sandra said she'd had enough of work, running her business and as I had already finished full-time work we were sold up and gone within three months. 
She could have gone on working - she too was in her early fifties - and made more money...but for what?
For several years she had no income other than a puny amount of interest on savings as she was too young to take out her pension but I had good retirement income. We decided we would sell all property and rent a house equal to or better than the one we owned in the UK...it was a two hundred and fifty year old rambling cottage with thick walls. We were used to space and privacy so although we tried 'communal' living in a piso it wasn't for us.
People come to Spain with an immense variety of incomes, tastes and life experiences. There is no one size fits all. What suits Baldy wouldn't suit me or many others. Some come to lie on the beach all day. Others prefer the quiet campo life. Some come looking for the 'real' Spain which imo is to be found in the big cities and towns like Madrid, Oviedo, Barcelona, Valencia, not some fly-blown hamlet.
But each to their tastes and more importantly to their incomes. Living in Spain, like most other consumer choices, has a price and you buy to suit your means, if you have any sense.
I think the best course is to rent for a year at least and see if your new lifestyle is within your budget and more importantly if it's the right lifestyle for you, wherever you choose to pitch your metaphorical tent.


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## Crab eater (Sep 13, 2013)

Mickeyfinch said:


> Hi I posted a thread about living I spain on a Pension. I need as much information about living costs as pos . I intend to buy a two bed villa About £250,000.
> Could anyone give us an idea of monthly costs.ie taxes ,utilities,food,or any other monthly ongoing costs. I know it's a bit vague but I need to know if we can Fford to move on my pension.is there the equivalent of council tax in spain?


This thread has meandered abit ! But to address your question I would have thought you could get a very nice 2 bed Villa for well under £250k (unless of course you intend moving to Central Barcelona or somewhere similar). I would then invest the spare cash, after you've allowed for any refurbishment and furnishing your Villa will need, to give an additional monthly return, which at the moment may not be great, but interest rates can only go one way. Routine expenses will be approximately €100 / month electricity, €25 / month water, our Rubbish Bin Tax is next to nothing, and food and drink (living well) will be around €400 / month for two people, we spend about €60 / month on petrol. Again as others have mentioned there is car maintenance (similar costs to the UK), house and car insurance, health insurance if necessary, car tax, clothing, going out, "fripperies !", trips back to the UK to see family and the additional costs involved when family and friends come to stay with you.
I would recommend keeping a cushion (as others have) to cover unforeseen costs, and that is a matter of your circumstances, but I would recommend at least €10k. From what you have already said I would assume you'll be able to live quite well over here and would not worry too much about it.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Crab eater said:


> I would have thought you could get a very nice 2 bed Villa for well under £250k (unless of course you intend moving to Central Barcelona or somewhere similar).


I was thinking the same, £250k seems an awful lot for a 2 bed villa - even €250k would be excessive in most areas, given the level of prices that are around.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Crab eater said:


> This thread has meandered abit ! But to address your question I would have thought you could get a very nice 2 bed Villa for well under £250k (unless of course you intend moving to Central Barcelona or somewhere similar). I would then invest the spare cash, after you've allowed for any refurbishment and furnishing your Villa will need, to give an additional monthly return, which at the moment may not be great, but interest rates can only go one way. Routine expenses will be approximately €100 / month electricity, €25 / month water, our Rubbish Bin Tax is next to nothing, and food and drink (living well) will be around €400 / month for two people, we spend about €60 / month on petrol. Again as others have mentioned there is car maintenance (similar costs to the UK), house and car insurance, health insurance if necessary, car tax, clothing, going out, "fripperies !", trips back to the UK to see family and the additional costs involved when family and friends come to stay with you.
> I would recommend keeping a cushion (as others have) to cover unforeseen costs, and that is a matter of your circumstances, but I would recommend at least €10k. From what you have already said I would assume you'll be able to live quite well over here and would not worry too much about it.


Your electricity and water costs are on the low side....our electricity, water and phone/internet bills average 300 euros minimum a month. If you need aircon you'll expect bigger electricity bills than if you don't, obviously, ditto if you heat with electricity. It depends too on whether you have your own pool or not as you'll have the pump running.
We spend at least 100 euros a month on diesel and we don't really go very far!! But we have no public transport within an easy walk so tend to use the car more than we would ideally prefer.

As for buying property...again depends on where you live. You wouldn't be able to buy a villa for 250k euros around here. 
So much depends on habits and location and of course your physical state. That's wy it's better to rent for a year or so before committing to purchase.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Its helpful seeing a range of costs for different parts of Spain and reassuring that our calculations based on info from family and the folks who sold us the house is there or thereabouts.

It worked out for us that less than half of our monthly income will go out on bills and that was important as we want to be able to do things without eating into our capital.

I think you also need to take into account the cost to set up in Spain , e.g. vehicle reg costs, any furniture or kit you want for the house you buy/rent, transporting UK stuff if you want to bring lots ! I have selected items only and of course my 2 dogs !

I am glad UK food is available for the times that I fancy something from home but wouldn't intend to shop at Iceland very often , too much good fresh produce available locally but its there if I want a UK fix !

I am hoping the veg plot works as it does in the UK and to make use of the oranges,peaches,figs,lemons, limes and apples that are on my land.

I cant wait !!


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Is there a ball park figure for two people to live quite comfortably not including rent ? 

Also I think most areas you would have a lot of change from your 250 for a decent 2 bed villa.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> Is there a ball park figure for two people to live quite comfortably not including rent ?
> 
> Also I think most areas you would have a lot of change from your 250 for a decent 2 bed villa.


I think it's almost impossible to say because everybody's idea of what constitutes "living quite comfortably" is different.

Btw, I saw an item on the DM website earlier saying that the bare minimum a pensioner in the UK needs to live on is now £10,300 pa., not including mortgage or rental costs.

This is it - I'm sure we'll all find some of the figures quoted a bit odd.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/pe...ers-spend-10-000-year-basic-living-costs.html


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Roy C said:


> Is there a ball park figure for two people to live quite comfortably not including rent ?
> 
> Also I think most areas you would have a lot of change from your 250 for a decent 2 bed villa.


A three bedroomed townhouse just outside Marbella is on the market for €750k.
It depends entirely on location. Manilva, west of Estepona, is inexpensive compared to Sotogrande afew km down the coast and favoured spot of wealthy Russians.


Incidentally, I can't believe that good quality fresh fruit and veg aren't widely available in the UK. Within a short drive of our UK home we had several excellent farm shops for top quality meat, cheeses and local produce and every village and town had a weekly market. Friends in London visit local farmers' markets and can have boxes of fresh vegetables delivered to their door. Before work and politics took over my life I grew nearly every vegetable you could think of. 
We ate just as well in the UK as here, we merely ate differently.

To answeryour question although it's difficult as we've said as tastes and habits vary widely: I'd say a minimum of €1000 a month for food, the occasional meal out, petrol/ diesel, utilities. With a cushionfor unexpected expenses such as car repairs, visits to dentist, insurance premiumsdue..
But that's my take, Baldy and others will say you need less.
We're assuming that things like paying for pool and gsrden maintenance aren't included.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Is there reasonably priced places around Estepona that aren't urbanisations. We visited Estepona a couple of weeks ago and really liked it, my 22 year old daughter loved it and asked us to focus our search there, as part of our reccy. Manilva and Casares only seems to throw up brand new properties when I search.

Sorry for going a bit off topic.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9;4495226
Incidentally said:


> Sadly, it's not like that everywhere. The town where my family live (10 miles outside Manchester) has an Aldi and a Morrisons - but apart from 3 bakers' shops there is not ONE independent food store of any kind left - plenty of takeaways of various kinds, though, which are all shuttered up in the daytime making the main street look dreadful. The weekly market it used to have has gone too, and as for farmers' markets and having vegetable boxes delivered, you might as well wish for the moon.
> 
> The small semi rural town I lived in before leaving wasn't much better, certainly 8 years ago there was a butcher and a greengrocer and still a small weekly market, but we had to drive 7 miles to a decent supermarket apart from a small Co-op and a Spar type shop which sold only a very basic range of groceries. The next town over the moors, however, was quite different, it had a very "right on" food co-operative, a guerrilla gardening scheme and regular farmers' markets (although the prices were eye-watering).


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Roy C said:


> Is there reasonably priced places around Estepona that aren't urbanisations. We visited Estepona a couple of weeks ago and really liked it, my 22 year old daughter loved it and asked us to focus our search there, as part of our reccy. Manilva and Casares only seems to throw up brand new properties when I search.
> 
> Sorry for going a bit off topic.


I love Estepona. There are plenty of non- urb houses and flats but the average houseprice would be in excess of €500k from what I've seen. You could buy a small dark apartment for around €130k but for something a little more pleasant you'd have to look around €200k.

We intend to move into Estepona in three years time.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I love Estepona. There are plenty of non- urb houses and flats but the average houseprice would be in excess of €500k from what I've seen. You could buy a small dark apartment for around €130k but for something a little more pleasant you'd have to look around €200k.
> 
> We intend to move into Estepona in three years time.


Thanks mrypg9, we are going to rent for the first year at least if not longer term as we will rent out our house here. We could then sell up here and buy there if we decide to.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> Sadly, it's not like that everywhere. The town where my family live (10 miles outside Manchester) has an Aldi and a Morrisons - but apart from 3 bakers' shops there is not ONE independent food store of any kind left - plenty of takeaways of various kinds, though, which are all shuttered up in the daytime making the main street look dreadful. The weekly market it used to have has gone too, and as for farmers' markets and having vegetable boxes delivered, you might as well wish for the moon.
> 
> The small semi rural town I lived in before leaving wasn't much better, certainly 8 years ago there was a butcher and a greengrocer and still a small weekly market, but we had to drive 7 miles to a decent supermarket apart from a small Co-op and a Spar type shop which sold only a very basic range of groceries. The next town over the moors, however, was quite different, it had a very "right on" food co-operative, a guerrilla gardening scheme and regular farmers' markets (although the prices are eye-watering).



We lived down south...

My son and dil live in Merstham, Surrey, an odd little place, a kind of overgrown village with no discernible centre. Although their house is under twenty minutes from the M25 the area is surprising leafy and quite rural. Their house backs on to sweeping green fields and copses. Just afew minutes drive away is a farm shop selling theusual local meat, fruit and veg, home- made jams etc. There are rather twee butchers and bakers and weekly markets of local producein the church hall. In nearby Reigate is the biggest Tesco I have ever set foot in. It has a wide selection of fresh stuff and more importantly for me I can buy Florence and Fred undies upstairs. I'm off to visit and stock up next week.
And as you say, the prices in the farm shop were eye- watering. I went with my dil for a Ploughmans...just the usual roll, cheese, salad stuff....with a soft drink and coffee each I had a few pennies change from £30. It wasn't that nice either.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Gosh- reading some posts makes me think the thread should be called "Unlimited Pension, "with posters needing to live to a 110 to spend all these pensions!
Wonder how some people ( apparently) live only on a state pension.
I've heard that quite a few do!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Roy C said:


> Thanks mrypg9, we are going to rent for the first year at least if not longer term as we will rent out our house here. We could then sell up here and buy there if we decide to.


Imo the most prudent way to proceed. Lots of places to rent, pisos starting at around €500 a month without utilities.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> Gosh- reading some posts makes me think the thread should be called "Unlimited Pension, "with posters needing to live to a 110 to spend all these pensions!
> Wonder how some people ( apparently) live only on a state pension.
> I've heard that quite a few do!


Some people had professional jobs with reasonable salaries back in the UK. Others ran businesses. After working throughout their lives it is to be expected they will be able to retire with a reasonable income, as most will have been able to save or sell property.
Your idea of what constitutes great wealth seems to start at a very low level. I know of no- one I would describe as 'wealthy' . The word I would choose is modestly 'comfortable'.
I cannot imagine anyone at any time in recent history thinking they could afford to retire to Spain on a state pension. But people obviously did, not considering that exchange rates fluctuate and so on. It's presumably these people who are heading for home.
It's getting tiresome reading that those of us not out with a begging bowl are considered wealthy by some people.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> We lived down south...
> 
> My son and dil live in Merstham, Surrey, an odd little place, a kind of overgrown village with no discernible centre. Although their house is under twenty minutes from the M25 the area is surprising leafy and quite rural. Their house backs on to sweeping green fields and copses. Just afew minutes drive away is a farm shop selling theusual local meat, fruit and veg, home- made jams etc. There are rather twee butchers and bakers and weekly markets of local producein the church hall. In nearby Reigate is the biggest Tesco I have ever set foot in. It has a wide selection of fresh stuff and more importantly for me I can buy Florence and Fred undies upstairs. I'm off to visit and stock up next week.
> And as you say, the prices in the farm shop were eye- watering. I went with my dil for a Ploughmans...just the usual roll, cheese, salad stuff....with a soft drink and coffee each I had a few pennies change from £30. It wasn't that nice either.


There are pockets of affluence oop North where you find those kinds of places (the Chatsworth farm shop, for example) but whether North or South, it's an inescapable fact that the less affluent the area is, the harder it is to find good quality food within easy access. Whether it's that the people in those areas eat crap because that's all that is available to them, or that only crap food is available in those areas because that's what the majority of the inhabitants want to buy, is debatable. I'm not sure it can be argued that they eat crap food because it's all they can afford, judging by the number of expensive takeaway meals many of them consume. We used to know people who drove taxis who swore that people on benefits used to ring for a taxi to collect their takeaway meals and deliver them.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Gosh- reading some posts makes me think the thread should be called "Unlimited Pension, "with posters needing to live to a 110 to spend all these pensions!
> Wonder how some people ( apparently) live only on a state pension.
> I've heard that quite a few do!


Personally if we were to wait for our state pensions , we wouldnt be able to come to Spain as we would be worn out and ancient , we can come because we have planned it for a number of years and worked our asses off to have a comfortable retirement at an age of our choice and not one that the government dictates, I just cant see how you could survive on a state pension although I sure folks do but they must have more than that , they must have saved to be able to get to Spain and worked hard to have some money behind them.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Gosh- reading some posts makes me think the thread should be called "Unlimited Pension, "with posters needing to live to a 110 to spend all these pensions!
> Wonder how some people ( apparently) live only on a state pension.
> I've heard that quite a few do!


Baldy does & on 650 a month 

Three adults & a couple of mutts.
Only uses main dealers for buying & repairs.
Couple of holidays a year & can save a little as well.

So it can be done.


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

playamonte said:


> Baldy does & on 650 a month
> 
> Three adults & a couple of mutts.
> Only uses main dealers for buying & repairs.
> ...


I thought his wife still worked as a teacher.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

anles said:


> I thought his wife still worked as a teacher.


She does but that is not guaranteed, so gets saved and used for large purchases such as having a new roof, plus it is building up a pot for when both the m-i-l and I have gone to another place (either up or down) and she is left on her ownsome with only her own meagre pension. For the time being we live on my OAP. I have a couple of piddly little pensions that get paid in the UK so are used for minor purchases of stuff we don't need (e.g. books, videos) that we can't get, or are difficult to get here in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If we had to live on 650 euros a month, we'd manage. Neither of us were born with silver spoons.

But we are both very pleased that we don't have to and that a mixture of work and luck throughout our lives has enabled us to live comfortably.

As Alcalaina said, frugality isn't a virtue but if it became a necessity as it has been in the past I dare say we'd get used to it again.

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to a good Sunday lunch of tuna steak accompanied by a fresh white Rioja....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> If we had to live on 650 euros a month, we'd manage. Neither of us were born with silver spoons.
> 
> But we are both very pleased that we don't have to and that a mixture of work and luck throughout our lives has enabled us to live comfortably.
> 
> ...


We are having a luxury item today - roast chicken. Why is it a luxury? We don't have to cook it nor heat up the kitchen, it is coming from the village asador and together with fries for the three of us (with a chicken quarter left over for during the week) at €11.20, it's a 'done deal' as they say. For me to accompany - freshly squeezed orange juice, for SWMBO and the suegra it will be tinto de verano. For dessert, for me a slightly under-ripe banana and for the women fresh fruit salad topped with home-made yoghurt. So what is so frugal about that?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> We are having a luxury item today - roast chicken. Why is it a luxury? We don't have to cook it nor heat up the kitchen, it is coming from the village asador and together with fries for the three of us (with a chicken quarter left over for during the week) at €11.20,


Ha! you've been robbed. They're only €10 here.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Ha! you've been robbed. They're only €10 here.


WE can get them in Alcalá la Real (14km away) for €10.70 but the quality and seasoning plus the fries are much better here.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

So Baldy isn't really managing on his state pension; he's just salting away all the other pensions! If he had to use the state pension to allow for holidays, new roof, car etc, it couldn't be done. If you have a cushion to fall back on, of course one could manage on a state pension for basics.
As for the roast chicken you're all being robbed. 7.50 euros here, without chips, and I thought that was expensive!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> So Baldy isn't really managing on his state pension; he's just salting away all the other pensions! If he had to use the state pension to allow for holidays, new roof, car etc, it couldn't be done. If you have a cushion to fall back on, of course one could manage on a state pension for basics.
> As for the roast chicken you're all being robbed. 7.50 euros here, without chips, and I thought that was expensive!


No, most people couldn't manage on the measly state pension for basics. Baldy does with cushion, as you point out, because he wants to and is a good manager so has a happy, contented life. As I said earlier, we could do the same if we had to but we don't have to and we don't want to.

As you rightly say, it's impossible to live here on a state pension so those who thought they could were rash and very foolish and also, it has to be said, bears of very little brain.

The message is simple: if you want to buy a life in Spain -because fancy words apart that's what we've all done - make sure you can afford it.

That goes for all contemplating immigration, whether pensioners, early retirees, people with job contracts, those with no secured contracted job with no Spanish but 'willing to do anything'....

Do the maths and leave a very wide margin of error. When we did our maths in August 2008 the £ bought 1.22 euros. When we got here in early December 2008 the £ bought just under 1 euro. I'm very risk averse - my mum should really have named me Prudence - so we did our calculations on the basis of parity, never thinking that could actually come to pass. Had we not done so we might still be in Prague....


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

PS whole cooked chicken,1.3 kg in Tescos , less than 10 euros.very nice too!


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