# More advice for the newbie!



## FlGJAM (Sep 30, 2011)

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to start by saying thank you to all the posters and moderators, this site is proving very helpful as I am looking to come to the area.

Here are some things I would like some advice on:
- I will be working in Abu Dhabi, but my co-workers all have advised me to live in Dubai for a bunch of reasons. What neighborhoods will help shorten my commute? I have already determined that the marina is out!
- I have not received an offer at this time, but am expecting to be able to send money back to the states (around 2k US) every month to pay bills and such. What salary can I live on with this stipulation? I have a wife and 2 small children that I will have to support! Again, I have no answers to any of the typical financial stuff yet; but will update as they become available.
- Maids? I have looked through all the threads on maids, but I don't know how I feel about someone living in my house.....any reassurances you can share would be appreciated. (I would like to see my wife able to focus her energy on the children and less on the house work)

Thanks in advance!


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## Dubaibound (Jul 5, 2011)

Maid? 

I thought u said u had a wife


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

FlGJAM said:


> Hello everyone,
> I just wanted to start by saying thank you to all the posters and moderators, this site is proving very helpful as I am looking to come to the area.
> 
> Here are some things I would like some advice on:
> ...



Answers in Blue. Good luck


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## katiepotato (Apr 29, 2008)

pamela0810 said:


> - If you browse through some of the threads (especially the salary and package thread), you will be able to get a clear idea of what to expect. Without adding numbers your offer should include a basic salary + housing allowance + 100% utility bills payment + transportation allowance + schooling assistance for both the children + private medical insurance for the entire family + annual air tickets to home base for the entire family + relocation allowance. Do not compromise on any of these.


I have to disagree that all companies will provide traditional expat packages including the various allowances mentioned, and that you should treat this as a "make or break" factor for your move. More and more companies are going the same way as you would expect to be paid in the US or UK i.e. you receive a salary at the end of the month and it is up to you what you spend it on/how you save. This way, the remuneration paid actually reflects the level of contribution that the individual's role makes to the company rather than being driven by how many children they have or where they fly home to every year. Dubai is not a hardship posting by any means, and where else in the world would anyone think that asking for a pay rise because their youngest child had started school was reasonable? 

I do appreciate that expats do not have access to government health and schooling in the same way as they would at "home," wherever that may be - but surely that should be something each individual should consider before moving? We don't have access to those services because we don't pay tax here. 

Ranting aside - you absolutely need to be sure that whatever the package offered, it is at market rate for the role you will be performing and that it will be enough to cover your expenses, allow you to save and to have the kind of lifestyle you are moving here for - but don't necessarily expect it to include all of the above. There's plenty of info on the forum to help you find out what your expenses will be. 

Good luck!


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

I have to agree with KP.

Besides offering an all-in-one package now, more companies are looking to only pay out a package for bachelor status. Why even get into a discussion about schools etc if they don't have to.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

The OP has a wife and 2 children that he has to support. Considering how expensive schooling is in Dubai (an average of AED 30K a year for Kindergarten alone), I would think that it is absolutely essential he gets this written into the contract. But then again, that's my point of view. I could be wrong.


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

katiepotato said:


> I have to disagree that all companies will provide traditional expat packages including the various allowances mentioned, and that you should treat this as a "make or break" factor for your move. More and more companies are going the same way as you would expect to be paid in the US or UK i.e. you receive a salary at the end of the month and it is up to you what you spend it on/how you save. This way, the remuneration paid actually reflects the level of contribution that the individual's role makes to the company rather than being driven by how many children they have or where they fly home to every year. Dubai is not a hardship posting by any means, and where else in the world would anyone think that asking for a pay rise because their youngest child had started school was reasonable? I do appreciate that expats do not have access to government health and schooling in the same way as they would at "home," wherever that may be - but surely that should be something each individual should consider before moving? We don't have access to those services because we don't pay tax here.


I agree with Katie here. "Old time Dubai expats" are accustomed to having an enormous number of benefits in their "package". This is QUICKLY going away, as Dubai is not a hardship posting anymore. Dubai is like most Western cities, although there are some different rules and customs. As a FYI, I am paid like an American - no "housing", "education", "walk my dog" allowances. I get paid a flat rate.

With that said - I am also an American. I estimate that I pay about 10-15% more for most activities here. Therefore, the tax credit you receive from the US govt (up to XYZ amount) provides an additional 10-15% more income on the same salary you would receive back in the States. 

I enjoy my time here and my family and I will probably be here for some time.

-md000/Mike


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

-The usual expat areas as given will be the easiest to adjust to and be easy enough to commute. 

- In my opinion, a family with two children shouldnt come for anything less then 30k a month after their housing and schooling is paid. That would allow you to send the 2k$/7340 back home though which I think most people would be saving from that 30k. 

- Sponsorship of a maid is not cheap and to do so you will have a like 12k out of pocket initially (more if through an agency). Maids are paid very poorly, the average of 1200 dir but you can pay your maid more if you want to. You can get a maid service to come in and clean your home for 120k each time. There are many horror stories about people going through maids trying to find a good one. It might be less stressful to just have someone come by a once or twice a week.


Am sure will get jumped on for this... but... do not want an american to come over without hearing the non rosy tinted glasses version. 

As an american, who works with many many many many americans....For most american families that come over, this is a hard ship posting. I actually dont know any western wives/families from work who are still here who came around when I came. Overall, we have extreme culture shock. Americans just dont 'cope' as well. Will say the guys with foreign wives, seem to have less issues and their wives overall are still here. 

Everything here is expensive for most of us coming from most of the usa though. If you are coming from NYC or San Fransisco or such, you will not have sticker shock for as much stuff like restaurants and entertainment. I will give examples as am sure will be jumped on over this. If you are a golfer, either give it up or get ready to give your second childs education away to be able to pay regularly. I dont know about you, but I am used to 20$/75dir for a round at my local course at home. It is 271$/995dir at emirates right now. For most everything food and general stuff you need to buy, will find is 1.5ish the price of back home, sometimes higher, especially if electronics. For example, today I bought a camera. If I was to buy it here, would cost me 820$/3000 vs the 520$/1908 in the usa. Your salary needs to reflect this. 

For american education, go look at the websites of the schools on google. They post the costs. You are leaving a place where is most likely free. 

Housing here is very expensive. It isnt like a 20% increase for most of us americans but more like 400% increase. If it isnt paid for, then your salary needs to reflect the difference.

Tickets home are running us $2000+ to be able to fly semi direct with just a stop or two and not to have to fly 28 to 35 hours home... $2k/ x 4 = 7340$/27k dirh. OUCH. Dont talk yourself into buying the 1200$ cheap ticket..... Get a decent allowance and not the generic will give you tickets to home. YOUR FAMILY WILL HATE YOU AFTER THE 35 HOUR TRIP HOME. 

There are places within the usa that you can move to that will give you a much better life if opportunities are not available in your local area without the dubai hefty price tag. When it all comes down to it..... Why come here if you are not able to save some money and live at least as well as you would at home?


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## katiepotato (Apr 29, 2008)

By hardship posting, I don't mean that it is expensive to live in Dubai. My definition (and I am happy to accept alternatives) is a traditional expat placement in a highly undesirable location where families are unlikely to follow because there is little or no access to home comforts, no social life and potentially higher personal risk - and the only way companies could get people there was to pay for absolutely everything for them. Whatever our personal opinions of Dubai might be, the above really doesn't apply and hasn't for a long time. 

Of course some people like Dubai more than others, and like anywhere else in the world it has its good points as well as bad. I don't think anyone is arguing with the fact that the cost of living is higher here, or that anyone considering the move needs to do their homework beforehand.


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

Jynxgirl said:


> As an american, who works with many many many many americans....For most american families that come over, this is a hard ship posting. I actually dont know any western wives/families from work who are still here who came around when I came. Overall, we have extreme culture shock. Americans just dont 'cope' as well. Will say the guys with foreign wives, seem to have less issues and their wives overall are still here.


Maybe this says something about the type of person? I have many American friends - not "guys with foreign wives" - who enjoy this place. They have made lives for themselves here, had kids, started companies, etc.



Jynxgirl said:


> For american education, go look at the websites of the schools on google. They post the costs. You are leaving a place where is most likely free.


100% Agreed. Education is a killer expense here. 



Jynxgirl said:


> Housing here is very expensive. It isnt like a 20% increase for most of us americans but more like 400% increase. If it isnt paid for, then your salary needs to reflect the difference.


I disagree. This really depends upon 1) where you used to live; 2) what type of accommodations you used to have; and 3) what type of accommodations you want in Dubai.

For a frame of reference: My 1 BR, 1200 sq ft. flat in downtown Denver: US$1200/month; My 2 BR, 1300 sq ft. flat next to Mall of the Emirates: US$1362. My wife pays LESS than she did when she lived in Manhattan - and her place was smaller. 

On the other hand, I know people who "come to Dubai to live the high life" and end up with a 2 BR flat on the Palm Jumeirah for US$2800/month. There are others, Americans I know, that live in Silicon Oasis who pay US$1000/month for the same size of accommodations.



Jynxgirl said:


> When it all comes down to it..... Why come here if you are not able to save some money and live at least as well as you would at home?



Multicultural. Where else in the world do I interact with nationals from at least 5 countries every day? Most of the time, 10-15 nationalities - every day. And I work from home.

Beach. Duh.

Safety. I've lived in America, China, the EU and here. In both the EU and America, I would not feel comfortable letting my wife wander around the city after dark by herself. Here - she is safe.

Nice people. In general, people are super friendly here and wanting to interact. Why? because they are in the *same shoes* as you - guests of this country. 

Quality of life/going out/enjoyment. There is pretty much something for every single person here. From hiking, skiing, swimming, horse riding, etc. you name it - someone is involved in it. You may have to drive a bit - but if that activity is something you are interested in, why would you mind?

Easy travel. Dubai/UAE is a central hub for southeast asia and africa. If I wanted to fly to Nairobi tomorrow, I could. Then, next week, I could go to India. Just for the weekend. why? because I could.


I live considerably better than I would back in the States. I save more money than I would in the States. I am not encumbered by the insane political system in the States. Yes, I miss my family. Yes, I miss my friends. Yes, I miss beer. On the other hand, I have made new friends who are my family, and I spend more quality time with my wife due to not going out to the bar every (other) night.

Dubai is for some people and not for others (Jynx - she readily admits hating Dubai and can't wait to leave. I ask - why didn't you just pack up and leave months ago?). If you can't live without the "comforts of home" or visiting your mother every weekend or taking little Johnny to the baseball park, then - please - pretty please with a cherry on top - don't come.

-md000/Mike


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

md000 said:


> ...Yes, I miss beer...


I agree with everything, except the above.

Exactly what type of beer are you missing ? I have more beers than I can drink since I kept getting free cases of beer when buying wines.

And they are not crappy beers either.


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

ccr said:


> I agree with everything, except the above.
> 
> Exactly what type of beer are you missing ? I have more beers than I can drink since I kept getting free cases of beer when buying wines.
> 
> And they are not crappy beers either.


I'm dying for a Breckenridge Avalanche Ale or a Goose Island Matilda or a New Belgium Abbey Grand Cru (or La Folie). 

find me those in Dubai, and you'll be welcome in my home forever.

-md000/Mike


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## kimevans628 (Oct 11, 2011)

My husband's company is considering relocating us to Dubai...we would not go without the "package". I can see the point that it is not a traditional hardship posting, however I must say I agree with Jynx, to us it is a hardship. Not in that we will have no social life, etc. But we will be removed from easy access and affordabiltiy to our lifestyle. I am not looking to live the high life, only to maintain the lifestyle that I have. We have a nice home, great schools, the ability to fly home to our parents for Christmas for $2000 for ALL 5 of US...the point of a package is to A)entice you to leave the comfort and familiarity of home and B) to allow you to maintain your current standard of living.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

I would STRONGLY recommend you to live in Abu Dhabi for your own safety. I have couple of friends that started off living in DXB and working in AD. After awhile they all moved to AD. Why? they were really getting tired of the daily commute and the risk of having an accident while driving was just increasing...

The highway in this country is not safe mostly because drivers here believe that they are racing. Some will put RADAR detectors and tailgate you. How many times I saw folks going beyond 140KM tailgating and the poor guy in front could nott turn left (even with the blinking lights on) because the cars on the left lane were running on the same speed!!! 

They drive fast, they are not courteous. If you want to move to the right lane and turn on the blink lights the guy behind you will go before you just because you turned the lights on. RIDICULOUS

And you should not put yourself in danger having children. 

I might be sounding a bit harsh on this... but safety is of paramount importance in my view.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

md000 said:


> I'm dying for a Breckenridge Avalanche Ale or a Goose Island Matilda or a New Belgium Abbey Grand Cru (or La Folie).
> 
> find me those in Dubai, and you'll be welcome in my home forever.
> 
> -md000/Mike


You got me!

Having lived in Belgium, I love specific Abbey beers as well (Maredsous 12-deg, for example), but I make do with other available Belgium beers (Affligem, Chimay, Duvel, Hooegarden just to name a few I have in the fridge) :spit:


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## FlGJAM (Sep 30, 2011)

WOW! You all are sending out a lot of information. We are not looking to move to Dubai in a 12 bedroom palace with a host of maids so that we can go out clubbing. I think that having a little help with the general cleaning a few days a week would allow my wife the ability to give our children more one on one time.

We are really looking at this as an adventure for our family. My wife spent quite a bit of time in high school on exchange programs seeing the world and my friends in the military rave about their travels; I believe that it is important for me to expose myself and my children to other cultures and broaden their perceptions of the world. 

I have been reading through this forum for weeks now and there are definitely obvious pros and cons to making a move of this magnitude. I am currently stuck at my current position in a holding pattern career wise, and if this opportunity presents itself; it will shift the focus of my entire industry to me and my place of employment. This will pay dividends for years to come whether I stay in the UAE or choose to move on.

Please keep the advice coming because I appreciate all sides of all of your collective experience in the region. I've got plenty of additional research to complete. And to the beer responses....I am sad to say that I may have an occasional cocktail, but not often enough to miss. A corona now and again is about as adventurous as I like to be.

Cheers!


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

I think the Belgian Beer Bar in Grand Millenium Hotel Tecom will cure all your ale cravings and if you`re looking for good strong cocktails Mai Tai Lounge has some of the strongest.


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## FlGJAM (Sep 30, 2011)

Holy cow it's happening. I received a very fair package from the company (includes basic salary, housing allowance, transportation allowance, education allowance, tickets home, medical...etc.) It was not as high as I would have hoped, but after calculating what Uncle Sam gets his greedy hands on; it is extremely fair. I will be coming over in about 10 days to spend time getting a lay of the land and cannot wait.

I again am looking forward to this adventure and look forward to posting in the same time zone.

See you soon! Bring on the sand!


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## Bulls_96 (Apr 21, 2010)

md000 said:


> I'm dying for a Breckenridge Avalanche Ale or a Goose Island Matilda or a New Belgium Abbey Grand Cru (or La Folie).
> 
> find me those in Dubai, and you'll be welcome in my home forever.
> 
> -md000/Mike


Goose Island?
Are you from Chicago?


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## Bulls_96 (Apr 21, 2010)

I just realized how old this thread is. My bad...


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