# Reliable Taxation Information



## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

We're in the process of moving from Australia to Europe. However we've had a lot of trouble getting information on how much we will be taxed in Spain on our Australian based Bank interest and Superannuation.

Can anyone provide details of how to make contact with the Spanish Tax office from outside the country.

Alternatively can anyone recommend a good tax agent or company that I might be able to contact and engage to do a sort of dummy run tax return?

Advoco was recommended in another thread but they don't seem to be taking new clients.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

On the Spanish tax office website there is a simulator which allows you to do a dummy run tax return, if you speak Spanish or can find someone who does to complete it for you.


https://www2.agenciatributaria.gob.es/es13/s/dacoda4rs00w

This is the 2014 version and the national income tax rates and bandings have been changed from 2015 onwards, but the updated version won't be available until next year (because returns in respect of income received in 2015 aren't due to be submitted until May/June 2016). One of the drop down boxes you have to complete relates to which autonomous region of Spain you live in so the state income tax rates are calculated automatically, as are the personal allowances. For someone whose only income is superannuation and bank interest, the return is not nearly as complicated as it looks because the majority of the pages relate to questions you wouldn't need to answer.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> For someone whose only income is superannuation and bank interest, the return is not nearly as complicated as it looks because the majority of the pages relate to questions you wouldn't need to answer.


Thank you. That looks perfect. :clap2:

Thinking ahead though, given that Superannuation funds earn income from a variety of sources including shares and currency, what portion of the declaration should they be declared in?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

rubytwo said:


> Thank you. That looks perfect. :clap2:
> 
> Thinking ahead though, given that Superannuation funds earn income from a variety of sources including shares and currency, what portion of the declaration should they be declared in?


I know nothing about Australian Superannuation I'm afraid, but if it was a pension from a UK private pension scheme it would simply be declared as income, it doesn't matter where the scheme's investment income comes from. If you held shares separately, then dividend income received from them would need to be declared in the appropriate section of the return.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Its best to be dirt poor like me and have no tax to pay.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> I know nothing about Australian Superannuation I'm afraid, but if it was a pension from a UK private pension scheme it would simply be declared as income, it doesn't matter where the scheme's investment income comes from. If you held shares separately, then dividend income received from them would need to be declared in the appropriate section of the return.


My understanding is that you aren't taxed on what funds you draw down from your Superannuation account because you're basically drawing on your own money. But that you are taxed on what the fund earns during the year on its investments.

Having said that I can't find a component of the simulator where overseas based income is declared


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

rubytwo said:


> My understanding is that you aren't taxed on what funds you draw down from your Superannuation account because you're basically drawing on your own money. But that you are taxed on what the fund earns during the year on its investments.
> 
> Having said that I can't find a component of the simulator where overseas based income is declared


No, the fact that it's overseas based income doesn't matter, you just enter the figure for pension income in the income box. That's what the Spanish tax office did with our British pensions when they completed our tax return for us.

The only place you have to declare overseas assets separately is the Modelo 720 return (which applies if you have €50,000 in any one asset class ie cash, property, shares, etc).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

rubytwo said:


> My understanding is that you aren't taxed on what funds you draw down from your Superannuation account because you're basically drawing on your own money. But that you are taxed on what the fund earns during the year on its investments.
> 
> Having said that I can't find a component of the simulator where overseas based income is declared


_all _income is taxed in Spain - it matters not where it's from

the only exceptions are if there is a tax agreement between Spain & another country & tax has already been paid on the income - then you wouldn't pay _the same tax_ twice - but might still have to pay _some tax _on the income, if allowances are lower here

if the income isn't taxed in Aus, it almost certainly will be here


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> No, the fact that it's overseas based income doesn't matter, you just enter the figure for pension income in the income box. That's what the Spanish tax office did with our British pensions when they completed our tax return for us.
> 
> The only place you have to declare overseas assets separately is the Modelo 720 return (which applies if you have €50,000 in any one asset class ie cash, property, shares, etc).


& of course that's a declaration of assets - not a tax return as such


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> _all _income is taxed in Spain - it matters not where it's from
> 
> the only exceptions are if there is a tax agreement between Spain & another country & tax has already been paid on the income - then you wouldn't pay _the same tax_ twice - but might still have to pay _some tax _on the income, if allowances are lower here
> 
> if the income isn't taxed in Aus, it almost certainly will be here



I appreciate that but I would have thought that you would need to identify which country the income is sourced from so that the conditions of the applicable Double Taxation Treaty can be applied


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

rubytwo said:


> I appreciate that but I would have thought that you would need to identify which country the income is sourced from so that the conditions of the applicable Double Taxation Treaty can be applied
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Honestly, if you go to the Spanish tax office to have them complete the declaration for you, all they want is the actual figure for your income from employment or pensions, your savings income, etc. They do not ask for any details or supporting documentation as to where the income comes from. We took letters from our pension providers, payslips and bank statements, and they didn't want to see any of them.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rubytwo said:


> I appreciate that but I would have thought that you would need to identify which country the income is sourced from so that the conditions of the applicable Double Taxation Treaty can be applied
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


As stated previously, ANY (and all) income is taxable in Spain. If there is a DTT in place, then you can offset any tax already paid elsewhere (but you need to establish this first).

In respect of drawing capital and only paying tax on growth, this sort of tax break is only applicable IF the 'bond' is Spanish compliant.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> If there is a DTT in place, then you can offset any tax already paid elsewhere (but you need to establish this first).



But where do you declare the tax already paid?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

rubytwo said:


> But where do you declare the tax already paid?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Box 583 or 585 on the simulator, but I confess I don't know the difference between the two.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rubytwo said:


> But where do you declare the tax already paid?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


On your tax declaration - hacienda will be able to help with this.


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