# Marrying a non-EU resident in Italy



## Khylelund

Hello forum,

I have a girlfriend originally from Serbia and who has been living and working in Italy for over ten years. She has yet to formally apply for Italian citizenship. I am curious to get the forum's opinion on would it be possible to marry a non-EU citizen in Italy? Or should she apply for citizenship first?

Thanks in advance


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## accbgb

I can't imagine why it would not be possible to marry your Serbian girlfriend in Italy.

Are you an Italian citizen? Has your girlfriend been living and working legally in Italy all this time? Does she possess (or can she obtain) the required documents, such as her Serbian birth certificate in the required format?


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## Khylelund

Yes, she has the legal right and paperwork to work and live in Italy. Plus she has her birth certificate from Serbia. I am American however.


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## accbgb

I expect you will each need to provide a "nulla osta" - basically a document which attests to your legal right to marry; in other words, you are not already married. See Getting Married in Italy | United States Diplomatic Mission to Italy 

It's funny that you questioned your girlfriend's right to marry in Italy but not your own.


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## Khylelund

LOL! No, not at all. After reading one testimonial from one member in the thread "Getting Married In Italy" I know the lengthy and complicated process for marrying in Italy if you're from the US.


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## BBCWatcher

As a separate issue, I'm surprised she hasn't applied for Italian citizenship.


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## Khylelund

I asked her about that and she said that it was just something that she never got around to doing. I assume being an EU citizen would make the marriage process easier on her end.


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## BBCWatcher

Perhaps, but mostly it would give her some added stability. Another option is that she can apply for an EC Long Term Residence Permit to achieve much (but not all) of the stability afforded with citizenship.

As far as I know Serbia permits its citizens to acquire another citizenship without loss of Serbian citizenship. However, I assume she would know more about Serbian law than I would.


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## Khylelund

BBCWatcher said:


> Perhaps, but mostly it would give her some added stability. Another option is that she can apply for an EC Long Term Residence Permit to achieve much (but not all) of the stability afforded with citizenship.
> 
> As far as I know Serbia permits its citizens to acquire another citizenship without loss of Serbian citizenship. However, I assume she would know more about Serbian law than I would.


Follow-up question... would being married under her current residency status make it easier for myself to find non-sponsorship work?


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## accbgb

Khylelund said:


> Follow-up question... would being married under her current residency status make it easier for myself to find non-sponsorship work?


What is your status in Italy? Are you a citizen? Are you there on a student visa? A work visa? Are you an illegal?


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## Khylelund

Currently I am in the process of relocating to Italy from the US. I am a US citizen. My current job allows me to work remotely.


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## accbgb

Your situation is probably far more complex than you realize.

The only way you can stay legally in Italy for more than 90 days out of any 180 day period is with a visa of some sort.

Student visas are available only if you are registered in a university-level course of study and do not permit work of any kind unless it is related to your studies.

Work visas are nearly impossible to obtain.

Elective Residency visas require gobs of passive income/savings (reported to be in the neighborhood of €3,000/month) and do not permit work of any kind.

An Accompanying Spouse visa would permit you to remain in Italy with your wife, so long as she herself is in Italy legally.

And just to be clear, if you do not have the legal right to work in Italy, you also do not have the legal right to "work remotely" - if you tell the wrong person that that is your intent, you will be tossed out on your ear. So be careful...

Do you by any chance have Italian blood coursing through your veins?


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## Khylelund

Oh, I am fully aware that I would not have the right to work remotely on a tourist visa and would have to apply for a work visa and pay local taxes in addition to US government taxes (although there are deductions available for foreign tax paid).

Would an accompanying spouse visa also permit me with the right to work in Italy as well? Yes, she is a legal resident with the right to work and live in Italy.

Unfortunately I do not have any Italian blood in my bloodline.


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## accbgb

I believe the accompanying spouse visa is your only real option. So far as I know, you would have the same privileges as your spouse; if she has the legal right to work then you would as well. But don't quote me on that as I may be wrong. This would all be so much simpler if your girlfriend had Italian citizenship.

Anyway, to obtain the accompanying spouse visa you have to be already married (duh!). So, you will need to come into Italy on a 90 day tourist visa and then work your butts off to get all the bureaucratic arrangements out of the way and get married before your 90 days expires. Then (pretty sure about this) you would have to return to the US and apply for an accompanying spouse visa. Once you have that in hand, you can return to Italy and follow the usual procedures to legalize your long term stay (residency, PdiS, etc).

You don't want to mess any of this up. If you accidentally overstay your 90 day tourist visa, there is the risk that any further visa will be refused for as many as ten years.

I


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## yosheryosh

accbgb said:


> If you accidentally overstay your 90 day tourist visa, there is the risk that any further visa will be refused for as many as ten years.
> 
> I


Not true for Spain... You can be illegal as long as you want, get married, and get residency.

What blows my mind about spain is you can be illegal - get a piece of paper that says you are living here illegally, then go apply for a free health insurance card!

In the states the moment you notified anyone you were illegal you'd get deported. Here they give you benefits. lol

Not sure how Italy would work, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the EU worked like this...


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## BBCWatcher

Let's keep the political commentary to a minimum, if possible.

OK, yes, you can apply for a visa on the basis of marriage to a legal resident of Italy. The problem is that her non-citizen status in Italy is not necessarily stable, and consequently neither one of you would have as much stability as you could or should. If she acquires Italian citizenship she'd have the unconditional right -- regardless of personal circumstances -- to reside in Italy, together with her legal spouse (of any citizenship). If she were to become disabled and unable to work, for example, as a citizen her immigration status would not be in jeopardy. As a non-citizen it could be.

To reiterate, I strongly recommend she acquire Italian citizenship as expeditiously as possible. She's obviously well established in Italy and a long-term resident, and her Serbian citizenship would remain intact, so it's a perfectly sensible thing to do. It's one thing if you're an independent adult and want to take your own personal risks. It's quite another thing when you have a household and other family members to look out for. You shouldn't be forcing your loved ones to take on unneeded risk, and in my view that's what she'd be doing if she doesn't apply for Italian citizenship.

If she were to acquire Italian citizenship then you would be able to apply for Italian citizenship yourself (assuming continuous residence together in Italy) 2 years after she acquires Italian citizenship or 2 years after you marry, whichever is later. You would then wait another 2 years for citizenship approval, so your time to citizenship would be 4+ years. You must remain married and not separated -- and that also means both alive -- through that entire process for you.

After 1 year of continuous legal residence in Italy you would have the ability to remain in Italy as a legal resident if your (Italian) spouse should predecease you, though it's a limited right because once abandoned you would not able to reestablish residence there.


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## Khylelund

I see. What is the time table on how long it would take for my girlfriend to get her Italian citizenship? If we were to marry prior to her acquiring her Italian citizenship, would we have to redo the marriage ceremony and paperwork?

I'll talk with her about getting her citizenship. She had told me that she was concerned about being able to retain her status as a Serbian citizen and that had been one of her reasons for not applying in the past. 

Would I have to, as accbgb suggested, return to the US to apply for the Accompanying Spouse Visa or could I do that while in Italy following the marriage?


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## BBCWatcher

Khylelund said:


> What is the time table on how long it would take for my girlfriend to get her Italian citizenship?


It depends. Has she taken/is she taking the requisite class to put her on that path? If not, I'd say at least a year.



> If we were to marry prior to her acquiring her Italian citizenship, would we have to redo the marriage ceremony and paperwork?


No.

You really can marry only once in your lifetime -- it's allowed. 



> I'll talk with her about getting her citizenship. She had told me that she was concerned about being able to retain her status as a Serbian citizen and that had been one of her reasons for not applying in the past.


I can find no information suggesting that her Serbian citizenship would be put in jeopardy, though of course she should check that.



> Would I have to, as accbgb suggested, return to the US to apply for the Accompanying Spouse Visa or could I do that while in Italy following the marriage?


What you're really asking is whether you can apply directly for a residence permit (PdS) right after marrying in Italy. (Visas are to facilitate _entry_, and obviously you have to enter Italy to get married there.)

Darn good question! If your spouse were an EU/EEA citizen -- notice a pattern here?  -- no question you could jump right to the PdS directly from within Italy after marrying there. I _think_ you still can when you're marrying a legal foreign resident, but I'm not 100% sure. You might gently push that question back on her to ask in her commune.


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## Khylelund

Update: 

I contacted my local Italian consulate and they informed me that once I secured the permesso di soggiorno I would have the same right as my girlfriend under her current legal resident status to live and work in Italy. My next questions are what is the time table for securing the Pds? And would we be able to work in another EU country if we decide to move in the future?

I spoke with my girlfriend about pursuing her Italian and EU citizenship. She told me that on top of the Italian citizenship process, the EU citizenship process takes another four years and that she would rather wait until Serbia becomes a member of the EU in 2018.


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## accbgb

I'm not aware of any separate EU citizenship process. So far as I know, once she has Italian citizenship, she is automatically an EU citizen with all the same rights and responsibilities. Perhaps BBCWATCHER has some insight on this matter.

A PdiS is a grant of permission to stay. In order to obtain a PdiS, you normally must first have an applicable visa (basically, permission to enter). You can enter Italy on a 90 day tourist visa exemption but do not expect to be able to actually get married for 60 or more days. At that point, you will have a relatively short period remaining in order to legalize your ability to remain in Italy. It is possible, I suppose, that you can request a PdiS immediately upon marriage but I still hold to my belief that you will need to return to the US and obtain a proper visa to cover your new situation. In any event, once you have applied for a PdiS the process can take two to three months to complete. I _think_ you would be permitted to work on the basis of having submitted a valid PdiS application (you will be given a receipt which serves as your temporary permission to stay).


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## BBCWatcher

accbgb said:


> I'm not aware of any separate EU citizenship process. So far as I know, once she has Italian citizenship, she is automatically an EU citizen with all the same rights and responsibilities.


I have literally no idea what she's talking about. All Italian citizens are also EU citizens. Acquisition of Italian citizenship means simultaneous acquisition of EU citizenship.

If Serbia becomes a member of the EU then its citizens will be subject to quota limits for several years. Your girlfriend is incorrect about 2018. If Serbia joins in 2020 (a more likely but still optimistic estimate), it will not be until the late 2020s that Serbian citizens will enjoy the same freedom of movement rights as other EU citizens within the EU.

If she doesn't want Italian citizenship then OK, but just be aware there are some stability risks. If you move to Italy in 2015 and remain resident there continuously, you can acquire Italian citizenship yourself as early as 2025. (Or as early as 2018 if you have a parent or grandparent who, at birth, was recognized or could have been recognized as an Italian citizen.) That'll still be sooner than she will enjoy unrestricted freedom of movement within the EU even if Serbia joins the EU.


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## Khylelund

60 days??? accbgb are you sure that is true? Because i know of some Americans who were married in Italy within 2 weeks of arriving in the country. 

I was scratching my head too BBCWatcher when she told me that but then I came across the Giambrone "How To Become An Italian Citizen" website and saw this in the 3d paragraph: 


> A non-EU citizen having legally resided in Italy for ten years may apply for Italian citizenship and a EU citizen after four years. A foreigner with native-born Italian parents or grandparents who have lost their citizenship and therefore unable to pass citizenship on, is entitled to apply after three years of legal residency in Italy.


Looks like I will have to gently press the issue with her as I would like to have a marriage and residency based on a solid foundation.


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## BBCWatcher

That's badly written. There are different waiting periods to apply for Italian citizenship depending on your circumstances. For example, if you have 3 years of continuous legal residence in Italy and either a parent or grandparent who was recognized (or could have been recognized) as an Italian citizen at birth, you can apply. If you possess another EU or EEA citizenship, or Swiss citizenship, you can apply after either 4 or 5 years. (It might be 5, actually.) The longest waiting period is 10 years for individuals with no special exceptions, but your girlfriend is past that point.

There is no subsequent waiting period for anything once you have Italian citizenship. You are also, instantly, an EU citizen.


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