# Living our dream



## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Hello
This is my first post and i’d really appreciate some guidance.
We are both 53 years old and have no dependants. It has always been our dream to get out of the U.K. Our kids have left home, we have recently lost a parent so now have the freedom and funds to do it. We have no intention of becoming old, cold and unhappy in the U.K. This is our long awaited opportunity and we’re going to seize it before we get trapped by our one remaining parent (who is in robust health).
We are on holiday in Sayalonga for three weeks in September - which will now be our fact finding trip. 
Our idea is to narrow down where we want to be and what is achievable, ideally small village in the mountains with a mix of ex pat and Spanish. I’m trying to learn Spanish at the moment and hope it will become easier if we live in a mixed, small community where I have to use it.
I’m a self-employed psychotherapist, so will transfer my quals to International status and will start to wind-up my business in October. My husband needs to give 3 months notice in October which frees us up to move in December.
We want to find a mid-term rental while we take time to acclimatise and find out where we ultimately want to settle. We won’t need to work hopefully for a few years, if we rent rather than buy I assume we can last longer without an income.
When we’re 67 we’ll be in receipt of our pensions and ultimately the second inheritance.
Any advice or ideas as to if this is realistic?
Kate


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Katenbill said:


> Any advice or ideas as to if this is realistic?


You haven't really given enough information to say whether it's realistic or not. Only you know your financial situation and whether you have sufficient funds to support yourselves without working until you receive your pensions.

From what you've said, it will be 14 years before you receive your pensions, I would suggest, depending on lifestyle, you would probably need somewhere in the region of €2k a month to live on for the pair of you. You can do that calculation 2 x 12 x 14. If you have those kind of funds to call on then it's realistic and would satisfy the authorities for that requirement. 

You would have to take out private health insurance for at least the first year and then perhaps join the regional health scheme if one operates in your area which is (from memory) €60 a month up to 65, €160 a month after 65, but you would get state healthcare when you receive your state pension at 67. Which we hope will still be in operation post-brexit.

I would look into the tax situation in Spain quite carefully too as that can be different to the UK, particlularly with regards to tax on inheritance.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Hi Kate (and Bill)

Firstly, huge congratulations on considering making such a big change and potentially relocating to Spain, which would be a great choice if it suits you both. Btw, I'm very sorry for your recent loss.

The first principle is that holidays (even if you call them fact finding missions) are just holidays and it's very tempting to get swept away with the romance of moving somewhere else based on that. Living in Spain year-round is vastly different and, of course, will vary wildly depending on which part of the country you're fond of. The countryside around Malaga and Sayalonga is certainly very pretty in parts.

Your decision to rent before buying is very sensible and I'd encourage you to see the full cycle of a year, rather than something shorter-term.

You'll naturally need to think about what your income needs are pre-drawing down your pensions, as well as what demand there might be locally for your transferable skills.

For illustration, we live in a small village in Catalunya, so a very different part of the country, and find that €1,000 a month allows us to live comfortably (but modestly) in a place we love, with food, fuel and a few meals out thrown in. And that includes our rent and bills!

But this is where you both need to be really careful in the decisions you're about to make. It can be tempting to think that, assuming you're now sitting on a reasonable inheritance pot, you'll be fine into the future. That sum can dwindle with alarming speed unless you're both committed to some realistic boundaries around what you spend - without, hopefully, having to live without it seeming you've taken holy orders!

You need to start factoring in lots of what if's, without over-thinking it.

Given your current profession, you'll know about the balance between not letting time slip through your fingers vs. making some calculated decisions, at the right time.

I hope that gives you some food for thought and happy to offer further advice, based on our own experience, should that be helpful. But do bear in mind that what worked for us may not for you. I really hope it does though and wish you much luck.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thanks for that Booksurfer. The advice I need is more logistical than fiscal - sorry I didn’t make that clear. 
Would it be feasible to find somewhere to rent for an uncertain length by December?
What is the usual timescale between fact finding visit and moving over?
Looking at some of the posts on here, it seems tricky to find an agent to help as they act for the owners.
It it possible to find somewhere in advance, pay a holding deposit, some rent in advance and move on a set date a couple of months later, or do you have to find somewhere and move in immediately?
We really want to start 2019 in our new life!


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you for you kind and encouraging words.
We both think that renting for at least a year will be a prudent choice. We aren’t expecting to live the high life - but a simple, quiet life, in a nicer place with friendlier, like minded people around, where we can switch off and just be us. 
We never stay on the coast for our holidays, we rent a cortija in the mountains, eat in and enjoy the views and each other’s company.
So it’s just the logistics of going about finding somewhere to be.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Katenbill said:


> Thanks for that Booksurfer. The advice I need is more logistical than fiscal - sorry I didn’t make that clear.
> Would it be feasible to find somewhere to rent for an uncertain length by December?
> What is the usual timescale between fact finding visit and moving over?
> Looking at some of the posts on here, it seems tricky to find an agent to help as they act for the owners.
> ...


It sounds feasible to me, since you won't be visiting till the end of the tourist season and it should be realtively easy to find accommodation. How flexible they are will depend how much demand there is in the area. Where I live they would bite your arm off if you suggested paying up front, but I don't know Savalonga.

I assume you've already looked at properties on Fotocasa? If not it will give you an idea of what you get for your money.
https://www.fotocasa.es/es/alquiler/casas/malaga-provincia/la-axarquia/l


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Katenbill said:


> Thank you for you kind and encouraging words.
> We both think that renting for at least a year will be a prudent choice. We aren’t expecting to live the high life - but a simple, quiet life, in a nicer place with friendlier, like minded people around, where we can switch off and just be us.
> We never stay on the coast for our holidays, we rent a cortija in the mountains, eat in and enjoy the views and each other’s company.
> So it’s just the logistics of going about finding somewhere to be.


To play devil's advocate, you can "switch off and just be us" wherever you are in the world.

It's true to say that a brand new environment may make that process easier.

I still think you need to work through the romance bit. Just saying based on what you've posted and not intended as hostile comment.

Living in the mountains during the winter is _very _different.

We live in an area with its own remarkable micro-climate. When it's hot (and nothing compared to the hot you get in the south during the summer) it's close to not being able to move or do anything. You just want some water to jump into. When it's cold, it's surprisingly more severe than some of the cold snaps you might be used to from a British winter.

We spent last winter in a house with no central heating, just a fire in the sitting room. It was really, really cold. More happily, we're now in a house with heating and, boy, were we grateful for it when the winter got really bad.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

I retired at 56; I perhaps "overthought it" in that I allowed for the roof to blow off (it didn't) and for that dreaded word "Inflation". But I had pensions that cut in at 62, 63 and the rest at 65 years old. 

Inflation has been very low since 2007, and wasn't much before; but the other dreaded word "Brexit" and exchange rate must enter your life. I was lucky and therefore have a spare "bob or two" that I didn't think I would have. If inflation had taken off I could well have been struggling. 

All the above is somewhat negative but I do not know your circumstances. Think positive with a little care and you will find Spain is your paradise - it certainly is mine so do your research, make your plan which will always have to be altered as you continue along life's rich tapestry, and good luck 

Davexf


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

davexf said:


> All the above is somewhat negative
> 
> Davexf


That's very dismissive of perspective offered in the interests of helping someone make an important decision.

People are often unprepared to listen to anything which doesn't fit in with their own idealised vision of perfection.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always got.
I personally don’t like what I currently have and don’t want to spend the rest of my life thinking “if only”. 
We’re not naive enough to think that every day will be like a holiday, of course it still rains and gets cloudy and cold. But rain, cloud, cold, frost is guaranteed in the East Midlands so I’m willing to take my chances.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

As I said in my earlier post, I wish you much luck with your plans.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Katenbill said:


> Thanks for that Booksurfer. The advice I need is more logistical than fiscal - sorry I didn’t make that clear.


Indeed. The quality of answer you get tends to be wholly dependant on the relevance and pertinence of the question asked!

Whilst I understand your desire to get things moving (if you'll excuse the inadvertent pun) but I'd caution you against trying to move things too quickly for the sake of speed. These kind of things tend to take as long as they take, there's no magic formula to apply to make things happen faster. 

I appreciate that once that, probably agonising decision is taken, you feel in a bit of limbo and want to make the transitions fast as possible, but the right outcome is more important than the fastest possible outcome. You have a lot of research to do, any time spent doing that now, before you move will not be time wasted.



Katenbill said:


> Would it be feasible to find somewhere to rent for an uncertain length by December?


How long is a piece of string? It's impossible to answer.

The actual mechanics of renting a property are fairly straight forward, you sign the contract agreement, pay a months deposit, a months rent in advance and hey presto! But I rather suspect that 1/ finding the area to move to and 2/ the right property to rent in that area and 3/ a good reliable English speaking abogado (solicitor) or gestor to handle the legal side of things will take you a lot longer.

Unfortunately, finding the right area/property/abogado can't really be achieved from the UK and you really need to be out there looking and speaking to people—that's where most of your time will go I suspect.

One thing you might want to consider and I don't know what your situation is in the UK and how easily it might be for you to up sticks and go, is to take on a series of short term lets in different areas. This will allow you to spend time in areas, get to know them, see if you like them and at the same time spend time looking for a long term rental. The downside is of course, you'd be living out of a suitcase, but the pro's I think outweigh the cons.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

We retired here early at 55 , it will be 3 years in November and has flown by !

We bought a property as we were sure of the area we wanted to live having done a lot of research beforehand.

Some areas are cheaper to buy and live in than others and it sounds like you are looking at a rural type area where longterm rents are not impacted on by the holiday season. If you want a quiet typically Spanish village with a small expat community you can rent and live relativley cheaply. Many home owners in our area are pleased to have their properties rented out as it makes them secure and also maintained.

If you want some info on our area which is in the Valencia region , under an hour from Valencia airport and over an hour to Alicante. Its near a largish town but the village has all the amenities you need but only if you want Spanish amentities in terms of bars, shops and restuarants. The nearest coastal resort is around 50 mins away.

It works for us but is not for everyone but is certainly cost effective with a relaxed lifestyle.

Learning Spanish for this area is important if you want to be part of the local community.

Good Luck in your search ;-)


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Gregorians said:


> That's very dismissive of perspective offered in the interests of helping someone make an important decision.
> 
> People are often unprepared to listen to anything which doesn't fit in with their own idealised vision of perfection.


Hola 

Perhaps I should have put "All MY above comments are somewhat negative" 

They asked for comments; they have been given an insight to my thinking which happened in 2002. 16 years later, due to LUCK (a very large slice) and looking at "the worst case scenario" - I have found my paradise. 


If you have too much money, it is not a problem. If you don't have sufficient money then it is a BIG problem. There are many other things to think about so I give full credit for asking the question. 


Davexf


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I picked up on the part where it says that the OP will get international status for qualifications.

Does this mean you intend to transfer your self employed activity to Spain? I will not go into the pros and cons of being self employed in Spain, but I'm assuming that you profession requires some pretty technical terminology and a very good understanding of the language. Are you sure that your current profession will be suitable in a country where you are not at native language level?

Also, I assume that you know what you are talking about with regards to your particular profession, but I have checked and although psychotherapist and child psychotherapist are professions listed in the EU regulated professions database, in Spain neither is formally regulated, so in theory you do not need any formal recognition of your title in order to work as one.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Overandout said:


> I picked up on the part where it says that the OP will get international status for qualifications.
> 
> Does this mean you intend to transfer your self employed activity to Spain? I will not go into the pros and cons of being self employed in Spain, but I'm assuming that you profession requires some pretty technical terminology and a very good understanding of the language. Are you sure that your current profession will be suitable in a country where you are not at native language level?
> 
> Also, I assume that you know what you are talking about with regards to your particular profession, but I have checked and although psychotherapist and child psychotherapist are professions listed in the EU regulated professions database, in Spain neither is formally regulated, so in theory you do not need any formal recognition of your title in order to work as one.


Very interesting point, though given the op's vocation, if settled in an area with a sufficient number of English-speaking expats, I'm sure there'll be no shortage of client candidates. Veering off-topic I'm now reminded of certain tracts of JG Ballard's _Cocaine Nights_ - terrific book.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Gregorians said:


> Very interesting point, though given the op's vocation, if settled in an area with a sufficient number of English-speaking expats, I'm sure there'll be no shortage of client candidates. Veering off-topic I'm now reminded of certain tracts of JG Ballard's _Cocaine Nights_ - terrific book.


With a somewhat lurid and disturbing outcome!!!

My partner and I moved to Prague thirteen years ago. I'd been spending long periods of time there since 1969, when I was a student...but always with friends. Living there permanently was something I'd always dreamed of and the first year was sheer bliss, probably partly for reasons that had nothing to do with Prague itself. Year Two and I began to feel critical about many aspects of Czech life and by Year Three I was ready to go, my partner even more so.
So off we went to Spain where we stayed for a short time in my son's property. 
For the first six months I hated it....I even wanted to go back to Prague. But when we moved to the house we've lived in for ten years I suddenly realised with great joy this was to be my permanent home. 
We sold everything when we left the UK and invested the money. We moved with the entire contents of our UK home, furniture, crockery, books, the lot. It came to Spain from Prague with us and helped us feel settled, having familiar things around. 
Both my partner and I retired early and were in good health with good pension incomes and funds in the bank. We decided to rent, just as well as if we'd bought in Prague (as friends urged us to do) we'd have been stuck there. Neither of us needs nor wants to work.
The key factor as usual is money. If your income now and future meets your lifestyle, that's the main potential problem out of the way. But with Brexit and the uncertainty, it's the future that has to be carefully thought about. 
I hope I'm wrong but I fear that the £ will plunge post Brexit and stay low for a while. It will affect our incomes but we can survive. So you need to think about that but I'm sure you will as you seem to be aware of all potential 'stumbling blocks'.

Life can be a nightmare, not a dream, if you're always worried about money. You do need more than just enough to live on as you have to budget for the unexpected.....a couple of years ago my partner drove our old LandRover into a ditch to avoid a stray dog and the repair came to almost 3000 euros... Dental care can be expensive too.

But do your sums and if it all balances, go for it. We did and are very glad we left to make a new life in our old age. In fact, it was a bit like leaving home for the first time


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Valid points re my profession.
The international status I refer to is from my professional body memberships, ie, in order to remain in the National Council of Psychotherapists (NCP) with whom I have Senior accredited status, I will need to register for the International Council for Psychotherapists (ICP). Likewise with the GHR (General Hypnotherapy Register). I certainly would not be able to do my work in a foreign language! But intend to keep up to date with my quals and regulating bodies should I find it a possibility to work with expats at some point. 
I’m also a hypnotherapy/psychotherapy tutor here in the U.K. and it’s not unheard of for CPD to take place as a weekend course overseas. So that’s a possibility moving forward. However, it’s only an option should the market exist and I need to. 
I am aware that I would need to declare income and pay tax in both countries and I’ll have a meeting with my accountant later in the year when I start to wind up my business here.
I really do appreciate the advice and comments I’m receiving here. I understand the “devils advocate” comments as they do make us acknowledge that we have the negative side of upping sticks to consider. 
My Brother in law and his family emigrated to New Zealand in 2007 and came back recently for the funeral and to help us with probate, they had all the same things to assess, but have no regrets and have really noticed how bad it is in the U.K. now. My sister in law recently reminded me of a conversation we had prior to them leaving in 2007 when her parents were giving them a really hard time about going and she was wavering. I’d told her that if they didn’t at least give their dream a try, even if they hated it and they came back because it didn’t work out, at least they’d know and have no regrets whatever happened. 

They’re giving us that same advice now.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Have you been to Sayalonga before? We love it there but you really will need to learn Spanish. Though it does sound as though it belongs in Thailand or Cambodia!! If you are here for more than 183 days in a fiscal year you automatically become tax resident in Spain and for all income earned anywhere in the world you should pay tax here in Spain and nowhere else. When you find somewhere to rent, you may be offered an 11 month contract. The law changed some years ago and contracts should be either 6 months, 12 months or longer but once you have been in you're entitled to stay for 4 years unless you break the rules. Good luck!!


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you Thrax.
Never been to Sayalonga before, the last few years we’ve driven from the U.K. in our own car and stayed at various destinations including Costur in north Valencia, Pedreguer, nr Denia and Alhambra de Murcia so this is the furthest South we’ll have been. We looked at staying in Frigiliana and Cómpeta so hope to visit those and similar villages on our scouting trip in September.

As I see you are in that area, are there any letting agents I could visit around there?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Katenbill said:


> Thank you Thrax.
> Never been to Sayalonga before, the last few years we’ve driven from the U.K. in our own car and stayed at various destinations including Costur in north Valencia, Pedreguer, nr Denia and Alhambra de Murcia so this is the furthest South we’ll have been. We looked at staying in Frigiliana and Cómpeta so hope to visit those and similar villages on our scouting trip in September.
> 
> As I see you are in that area, are there any letting agents I could visit around there?


I can tell you in a private message which agents not to use!!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

thrax said:


> Have you been to Sayalonga before? We love it there but you really will need to learn Spanish. Though it does sound as though it belongs in Thailand or Cambodia!! If you are here for more than 183 days in a fiscal year you automatically become tax resident in Spain and for all income earned anywhere in the world you should pay tax here in Spain and nowhere else. When you find somewhere to rent, you may be offered an 11 month contract. The law changed some years ago and contracts should be either 6 months, 12 months or longer but once you have been in you're entitled to stay for 4 years unless you break the rules. Good luck!!


That should have said been in for 12 months...


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

Thrax, would you be so kind as to send me the same PM? Thank you


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Yes Thrax, please PM me


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Katenbill said:


> Hello
> This is my first post and i’d really appreciate some guidance.
> We are both 53 years old and have no dependants. It has always been our dream to get out of the U.K. Our kids have left home, we have recently lost a parent so now have the freedom and funds to do it. We have no intention of becoming old, cold and unhappy in the U.K. This is our long awaited opportunity and we’re going to seize it before we get trapped by our one remaining parent (who is in robust health).
> We are on holiday in Sayalonga for three weeks in September - which will now be our fact finding trip.
> ...


Have you considered the possibility of one of you or both of you working in Spain & paying into the Spanish State
Social Security System, in order to get the Spanish State pension; on top of your British State Pension ( which 
as we all know is the worst state pension to live on in the World except maybe in Columbia ) when you retire.

It's called the Euro Pension route. 
FYI - To be eligible for the Spanish State Pension you would normally have had to contributed into it
for 15 years but if you have worked in any other European country; like you have been doing 
in the UK and have probably paid the minimum number of NI Contributions to get the full UK State Pension
when your eligible for it at 67.
Then Spain will also have to pay you a Spanish State Pension as well, even if ( for example ) lets say
you only work an additional 10 years in Spain; not enough to get the full state pension of 15 years
but Spain would have to take into account the fact that you contributed into the UK State 
Pension, for more than 30 years of your working life.
Therefore your paid a pro-rata amount of the full 15 year Spanish State Pension which and maybe
I'm being a bit simplistic here; but lets say the full Spanish State Pension was 24,000 Euros a year, 
then you would be entitled to 16,0000 Euros a year, that will be on top of whatever you will getting
from your UK State Pension.

I'll add the usual IMHO and what I've been told by the International Pensions Office in the UK 
and of course who knows what joys the final details of Brexit's going to bring.
If anyone else has a different opinion or better facts than what I've said above, then please
do start a debate on it. I'm interested and no doubt the OP might be interested as well !!!


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

I’m confused&#55358;&#56596;
Please unconfuse me.
If I need an NIE to open a Spanish Bank account and I need a Spanish bank account to rent a property, how do I apply for an NIE without a Spanish address? Or can I do it in advance when I’m on hol from my holiday let?


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Katenbill said:


> I’m confused��
> Please unconfuse me.
> If I need an NIE to open a Spanish Bank account and I need a Spanish bank account to rent a property, how do I apply for an NIE without a Spanish address? Or can I do it in advance when I’m on hol from my holiday let?


You can either apply for a NIE once here, or get it through the Spanish consulate in the UK. It's pretty quick and easy to do, either way.

Here's the link to the relevant bit of the Spanish consulate web site.

Ignore the note about not applying for a NIE if it's your intention to live permanently in Spain. Technically, you're on holiday here, renting a property until you apply for residency at a later date.

As for the bank account, BBVA offers quite a good fee-free online account, with the initial drawback that I found it quite impossible to open online and had to spend a couple of hours getting them to set it up at a local branch. If you later become resident, you can get them to change it from non-resident to resident status.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you that’s really helpful


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

Katenbill said:


> Thank you that’s really helpful


You come across as very level headed and unassuming if I may say so - having a realistic expectation that not everything will be perfect is probably a good thing.

We are in Spain as a young family trying to expand our horizons. We did our homework and we knew adjusting to everyday life here would have its challenges....but it's been amazing. Every family/person is different, but if you have a positive mindset and you are open to learning about, experiencing and integrating into a Spanish life I think you could have a wonderful journey.

The Axarquia is an amazing area - we've seen a lot of it in our first year here and whilst we wanted to live nr the coast in a town with opps for the kids, I do very much like the villages. We went wine tasting and had a kid free weekend in Competa, I've stopped in Sayalonga a couple of times for coffee and breakfast and it seems a pretty nice place to me. Avoiding too many ex pats in the early days will help you learn the language even if you make a fool of yourself plenty though I think there's enough familiar voices up there should you need help.

My thoughts

- When we looked there were lots of mid/long term rentals inland but not so many by the coast, Sept a great time to start looking though.
- As already said, be prepared for extremes in the weather, Competa was cold overnight in November in a room with no heating, whilst the summer...seriously consider paying for a place with a/c
- we can't decide whether to buy or not...I've met few people who say buying is a good idea though opinions are strangely aligned with personal circumstances and few who rent say buying is a good idea whilst few who have bought will admit it's not necessarily been all rosy. We 'll see.
- Be prepared for windy roads and stomach churning roadside drops....sadly we have had friends come and stay who missed out because they couldn't cope with the drive up into the hills...something I never thought about tbh

Go for it and best of luck


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you KG5
Of course I’d love to nip through the mountains in a soft top sports car, hair blowing in the wind. Realistically though, we’ll have to get a small tank and wear helmets!

This forum is so helpful and supportive (mostly) I don’t ever do forums - I don’t even do Facebook.
We haven’t told anyone here about our plans (apart from Kiwi B & SIL) so it’s a sort of release to be able to talk about it.
Yesterday I had a meeting with the principle where I teach to finalise the dates for the 2019 course, I couldn’t say anything about not being here and not caring at all what the dates are!


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Katenbill said:


> This forum is so helpful and supportive (mostly)


Hmmm... I don't see anyone being anything but supportive. On this thread, at least.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Gregorians said:


> Hmmm... I don't see anyone being anything but supportive. On this thread, at least.


On this thread everyone has been supportive, but on other threads I’ve skimmed through I’ve noticed a bit of snippyness at times. Of course with just words and with no intonation or emphasis to go on, meaning can often get misconstrued.


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## Happyeater (Mar 31, 2018)

This thread has been really helpful, thank you. My Mrs and I are 54 and also sick of the cold English winters and want to live the dream. We plan to short rent to investigate areas then longer rent when we think we've found 'the place'. We'll then look for a purchase and plan to live for upto 6 months a year in Spain and the rest back in our UK home. We're just going through a messy High Court issue but once this is done (and we win) we'll plan to visit Spain and start the search.

Good luck with yours and we'll follow your experience with great interest should you post them on here.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Good luck with the court case. Having a plan for when it’s all over at least gives you something positive to focus on.
I know that for us going through probate, it would be far more draining if we didn’t have our Spain plans to focus on too.
Do you know where in Spain you’d like to be?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I say this to everyone thinking about moving to Spain. Have a 100% plan in place for when you arrive and be prepared to change it 100%. Then you cannot go wrong!!


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## Happyeater (Mar 31, 2018)

We will look at Murcia down to Marbella but it'll likely be inland. We've a dog (soon to be two) and just ordered a campervan so we can drive back and forth with the pooches. We've noted a lot of beaches won't allow dog walks so we'd prefer to find rivers and lakes for walks and swims. Ideally not an area full of Brits as we'd love to integrate with locals and we'll learn the language. We'll take our time and rent in different areas. The only must have will be fast internet so we can continue to run our business in the UK. It's time for us to have fun in a warmer climate.

The High Court case has already hit the press and we've got agreement on parts of it already. Just hope the next bit goes smoothly and we can get on with the rest of our lives.


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## icooltt (Jun 18, 2018)

Thanks a lot! This thread has been very helpful to me. I also want to relocate from India to Spain and I am exploring a lot about Spain.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Katenbill said:


> On this thread everyone has been supportive, but on other threads I’ve skimmed through I’ve noticed a bit of snippyness at times. Of course with just words and with no intonation or emphasis to go on, meaning can often get misconstrued.


Yes, I think I know what you mean now. Just been on the receiving end of some unnecessary petulance. A pity as most of us are only here to be helpful to eachother.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Well here’s my latest update.
We’ve told our kids (21 and 25). Very positive - our son was on Skyscanner looking for the price of flights within about 10 mins of telling him. Our daughter has suggested she comes with us! We’ve told her there’s no work and she needs to make a life for herself.
We’ve told our closest trustworthy friends, and again, all very positive and happy for us.
We’ve told my mother - who now says I’m making her ill, refuses to mention Spain, or show any interest whatsoever and has a face like a slapped ar*e!
We, on the other hand, are chomping at the bit - we are in limbo at the moment, we know we’ve got so much to do and sort out, but can’t start doing anything until after our holiday and we receive probate.
Bill is thrashing his Amazon account, it seems everyday we get a book delivery. Books on East of Malaga, Axarqia, Andalucia.......Exciting times ahead!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Katenbill said:


> Well here’s my latest update.
> We’ve told our kids (21 and 25). Very positive - our son was on Skyscanner looking for the price of flights within about 10 mins of telling him. Our daughter has suggested she comes with us! We’ve told her there’s no work and she needs to make a life for herself.
> We’ve told our closest trustworthy friends, and again, all very positive and happy for us.
> We’ve told my mother - who now says I’m making her ill, refuses to mention Spain, or show any interest whatsoever and has a face like a slapped ar*e!
> ...


I obviously don’t know you, but you come across as the type of person who has a “ get in with it” attitude, which is some of the battle won 

Wishing you well in your new adventure


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Katenbill said:


> Hello
> 
> Our idea is to narrow down where we want to be and what is achievable, ideally small village in the mountains with a mix of ex pat and Spanish. I’m trying to learn Spanish at the moment and hope it will become easier if we live in a mixed, small community where I have to use it.


It's just two years since we found our perfect place that exactly matched those very criteria. We live close to Lake Iznajar which is about an hour or so inland from Malaga airport. Absolutely stunning area! 
We did look at and rejected the Axarquia area. The roads were just too windy for me. It's also hilly where we are (we're at 500m) but the roads are mostly much easier to drive along.

Good luck in your search.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you Navas
I have just looked at Iznajar on google earth - blimey it’s stunning.
We’ll definitely drive up there when we do our recce in September.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Houston, we have a problem!
I am trying so diligently to learn Spanish, I love the memrise app, and I have spent a fortune in Waterstones on books, including children’s books to build up my vocabulary.
However, it seems my default setting for foreign language is French. I wish now that I couldn’t speak French at all as it’s adding an extra layer to my learning which goes something like.....
I want to say “I’m hungry” and it’s not “j’ai faim” so it must be “tengo hambre”
Arrrggg. On the plus side, my accent is rather good and I can roll my “rrrrs”

Also, can someone clear up a discrepancy in my books please. Is ‘v’ pronounced ‘b’?
Ie, is vale pronounced ballet or valet? When I listen to it I can’t make it out as it sounds like a mixture of the two, so I’m currently going with bvallay which unfortunately makes me make a rather unattractive pig face as it screws up my nose!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Katenbill said:


> Houston, we have a problem!
> I am trying so diligently to learn Spanish, I love the memrise app, and I have spent a fortune in Waterstones on books, including children’s books to build up my vocabulary.
> However, it seems my default setting for foreign language is French. I wish now that I couldn’t speak French at all as it’s adding an extra layer to my learning which goes something like.....
> I want to say “I’m hungry” and it’s not “j’ai faim” so it must be “tengo hambre”
> ...


It's very common - many of us learnt a bit of French when we were at school, and it became hardwired, so we continue saying "et" instead of "y" and so on for years after we've learned Spanish. Don't worry, it will pass, eventually you won't be able to remember any French at all.

B and V are more or less interchangeable, just stick with how it's written. But be aware when you are listening to native speakers that when they say tubo they might mean tuvo, and vice versa.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Katenbill said:


> Houston, we have a problem!
> I am trying so diligently to learn Spanish, I love the memrise app, and I have spent a fortune in Waterstones on books, including children’s books to build up my vocabulary.
> However, it seems my default setting for foreign language is French. I wish now that I couldn’t speak French at all as it’s adding an extra layer to my learning which goes something like.....
> I want to say “I’m hungry” and it’s not “j’ai faim” so it must be “tengo hambre”
> ...


You are doing exceptionally well if you can already discern the B/V thing. As Alcalaina says it's a soft sound between the two. You will pick it up once you are here as you will hear people saying _Vale_ all the time meaning _ok _and of course _bueno _used not only to mean good, but also _well_, or _ok_

People often say that children's books are simple because the range of vocabulary is limited, but I think that is very often not the case. In a book for a three year old you might get a lot of repetition for example, but a book for a seven year old or nine year old will have a high level of vocabulary, half of which may be very informal (kids conversations for example) or if you're reading a classic, totally out of date. I don't recommend them.

Two things to keep in mind

1.Learning a language takes years, not weeks or months. I've been here for 30 years, and my husband and daughter are Spanish. My Spanish is excellent as is to be expected, but the other day I had to look up a word in something Alcalaina posted and still get _bolso _and _bolsa _mixed up . It's an on going process and you'll have your ups and downs.
2.A basic, which a lot of people do not realise that is essential to all methods though, is reuse, revise, recycle - and then do it again. Go over and over vocabulary, phrases and grammar points until you notice that you use it naturally without thinking.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Katenbill said:


> Bill is thrashing his Amazon account, it seems everyday we get a book delivery. Books on East of Malaga, Axarqia, Andalucia.......Exciting times ahead!


Forget the books. 
1. They are costing you a fortune
2. What will you do with them when you move - moving books is expensive
3. They may well be out-of-date
4. Go online and get stuff that may be more up to date
5. Get on the ground and see for yourself.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Gracias, both. That’s very helpful


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

baldilocks said:


> Forget the books.
> 1. They are costing you a fortune
> 2. What will you do with them when you move - moving books is expensive
> 3. They may well be out-of-date
> ...


But I love books, a bit old fashioned, I know.
I like to easily refer and re-refer without trawling forward and backwards with loads of windows open on the computer and then accidentally closing a window and not being able to find it again:ranger:

Having said that I’m constantly online too.

We’ve already taken most of our books to charity shops (and we had loads), but some of them are old friends that I can’t part with.

As for getting on the ground - its only 62 days time we’re coming over, not that I’m counting the days or anything:clap2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Katenbill said:


> But I love books, a bit old fashioned, I know.
> I like to easily refer and re-refer without trawling forward and backwards with loads of windows open on the computer and then accidentally closing a window and not being able to find it again:ranger:
> 
> Having said that I’m constantly online too.
> ...


Highly dangerous! We shipped a load after I had been prevailed upon to offload a lot. I now wish that I had hung on to lots of them, especially the older ones including bound copies of Punch magazine from the first issue in 1841. Copies of the Times newspaper of 1805 announcing the death of Horatio Nelson, etc...



> accidentally closing a window and not being able to find it again


 - not a problem - go to "History" and you can find it - I often want a website that i last visited a few days previously, and I just go to history for that day.


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## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

I find light speed spanish podcasts on U tube helpful in trying to learn the language, which I’ve been applying myself to for some years.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Update.
Well now its only 9 days til we arrive in Sayalonga for our holiday/recce trip.
Probate has been granted and we have a cash buyer for the house at full asking price.
Hopefully the house will exchange and complete and the banks release transfer the estate monies into our bank account while we’re in Spain.
We are going to open a bank non-res bank account while we’re there, thinking of Sabadell - any reasons anyone can suggest why we should or shouldn’t go with them?
We were going to apply for our NIEs whilst on holiday, but they would run out by the time we can move over (end Dec), so might as well go straight for residency in Dec.
So now our plan is to try to enjoy having a holiday whilst taking some time to discover the area and narrow it down, visit rental agencies in person, come out again in Dec to get Residency and the NIE so we can rent a property and buy a car and transfer bank account to resident account then come back to the UK to pack up a van and move ourselves into the rental.

So my question is - is there anything glaringly obvious that I should be doing, or not doing?
My head is a shed - there is so much to be done, but can’t be done until we are finally there, so i’m Very much still in limbo and not not a little stressed out!

I’m worried that we won’t find anywhere decent to rent in December, yet it’s too early to find somewhere when we’re on holiday.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Katenbill said:


> Update.
> Well now its only 9 days til we arrive in Sayalonga for our holiday/recce trip.
> Probate has been granted and we have a cash buyer for the house at full asking price.
> Hopefully the house will exchange and complete and the banks release transfer the estate monies into our bank account while we’re in Spain.
> ...


I think you will find that you need your NIE in order to do everything else including inherit


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

A NIE is an identification number that stays with you, not something that runs out. So, as far as I know, no harm in getting it out of the way earlier. Unless I am missing something...

Also, you will probably need the NIE for opening the bank account. When I applied for NIE (from the US) the embassy form had 3 options, one was that you were asking for a NIE in order to open a non-res bank account.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

I am beyond confused regarding when to get the NIE!
So many conflicting advice on different websites and you tube channels!

I thought the NIE application requires an address in Spain and lasts for 90 days, but I’ve been told that if you are planning to live in Spain, you might as well apply for residency when you’ve moved there as the NIE is automatically included in the residency? We thought we would hire a car and stay in an AirBNB whilst getting the number.

So can I apply for NIE in September using the holiday address then?

All the info I’ve had re the non res bank account is that to open one in advance you just need your passport number and then can change to residents account when you have your Spanish address and NIE from your residencies - this info came from a Spanish person who works in a Spanish Bank in Alicante.

We have inherited whilst living in the UK - so any inheritance tax has been paid to HMRC and wouldn’t be taxed twice.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I think non-residents can get a temporary NIE, for things like property purchase? It lasts three months. You can open a non-resident account with a passport (no NIE needed) but some banks require a certificate of non-residence, so bring evidence that you live and pay tax in the UK (P60, utility bills etc).

So yes I think you are doing it right Katenbill.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> I think non-residents can get a temporary NIE, for things like property purchase? It lasts three months. You can open a non-resident account with a passport (no NIE needed) but some banks require a certificate of non-residence, so bring evidence that you live and pay tax in the UK (P60, utility bills etc).
> 
> So yes I think you are doing it right Katenbill.


Thank you, that clarifies things a lot


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Our lawyer helped us sort out our NIE's. I thought they were attached to a person's identity rather than their address. We didn't have an address in Spain at that time and needed the NIE for the purchase of our house and opening our bank account. In fact, you can acquire your NIE in the UK even before coming to Spain (Spanish consulate?). We have been using those NIE's ever since and that is much longer than three months. As far as I know, the numbers don't expire, however maybe in some places the piece of paper bearing the number expires after three months so it could be one of those regional differences. However, we've rarely/never been asked to produce the piece of paper, just the number. I think I'd advise finding a gestor in the area where you're buying and have a talk with them about the NIE situation.
Oh, and we're still non-residents (only in Spain part-time), but about to embark on applying for residency.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

For a few years, temporary 3 months NIE certs were issued to non-residents. 

They stopped issuing them a while back.

As said, the number is for life, regardless.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> For a few years, temporary 3 months NIE certs were issued to non-residents.
> 
> They stopped issuing them a while back.
> 
> As said, the number is for life, regardless.


Thank you

So, to clarify then, we can apply for our NIEs when we’re on hol in September using our U.K. address and giving ‘to buy a car’ or ‘to rent a house’ (in Spanish obvs) as our reason for application?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Katenbill said:


> Thank you
> 
> So, to clarify then, we can apply for our NIEs when we’re on hol in September using our U.K. address and giving ‘to buy a car’ or ‘to rent a house’ (in Spanish obvs) as our reason for application?


You could I think - though I have a feeling you can only give a UK address if you're applying in the UK. I'm not absolutely sure about that. I'd say it was to open a non-res bank account if I were you.


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## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

When I applied for an NIE whilst I was renting for a few months in Spain i simply used the rental property as my address,and encountered no problems .
My NIE states it’s for 3 months however 4 years later it’s still accepted whenever I’ve been asked for it.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

emlyn said:


> When I applied for an NIE whilst I was renting for a few months in Spain i simply used the rental property as my address,and encountered no problems .
> My NIE states it’s for 3 months however 4 years later it’s still accepted whenever I’ve been asked for it.


So you don’t need an NIE to get a rental contract?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Katenbill said:


> So you don’t need an NIE to get a rental contract?


Not always. It depends on the agent / owner.

Your passport is definitely required for ID though.


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## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

Katenbill said:


> So you don’t need an NIE to get a rental contract?


I didn’t have an NIE when I took out the rental contract which I did on the internet from the UK.


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