# EEA family permit



## stormystar2016

Hi

My situation is I am a UK citizen living in London, my husband is from India and his spouse visa application for the UK was refused. He has now been told to return to India and the Home Office will not return his passport until he's at the airport ready to go!

So now we want to move to Germany and exercise treaty rights. We contacted the Germany embassy in India and they said we would need to apply for a "family reunification" visa (my husband would have to do this from India) which would take a "minimum" of three months, I'm sure a lot longer at the moment! This defeats the whole object, in that we're moving so we're NOT seperated for months on end!

I'm confused, is this the same as an EEA permit? I thought they were supposed to be speedy? If it isn't the same, why are they telling us to apply under family reunification? I've scoured the embassy website, I've tried googling! But I can't find the answer.

If we do have to wait months for the appropriate visa, what happens if say he applies for a tourist schengen visa to somewhere say Poland for example (apparently they have a high acceptance rate for schengen visa's), and then we travel into Germany on that? Can I exercise treaty rights at that point? Without my husband having to leave again? So we'd be trying to "exchange" his Schengen visa for a family/residence permit.

Basically we just want to be together, and not seperated for months on end. We haven't decided whether we'd stay in Germany permenantly or try and "Surinder Singh" it back to the UK. Does that make a difference?

Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges

To go the route you're describing, you need to genuinely transfer your center of interests from the UK to Germany (or any other EU country). At that point, your husband can apply for a Schengen visa to join you in Germany and then get a residence permit. This is the EU page on the subject: Workers' and pensioners' EU family - Your Europe

However, you'll note that they refer to "Workers and pensioners EU family rights." In many EU countries, you can't just live there - you (as the EU national in the family) really must be exercising your EU rights, either to work, to retire or (in some cases) to study. At that point, your husband can then apply for a residence permit as long as he is legally in the country at that point (whether he entered on a Schengen tourist visa or some other sort of visa is pretty much irrelevant). 

You'll be asked to prove what right you are exercising in Germany - and being a "job seeker" isn't one of those. 

You won't have to show a particular level of income, but you will have to show that you are really living in Germany and have a residence there for both of you.

Unfortunately, that will likely take being apart for at least a few months - at least until you can get yourself established in Germany.
Cheers,
Bev


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## stormystar2016

Thanks for your reply. 

The one area where I guess we're a bit lucky is that we have savings. So, if we're looking to minimise the time we spend apart, is it better to just enter on the tourist visa? I don't really want to have to set up accommodation etc etc by myself! Work wise, I have my own business. I've looked into setting up an equivalent in Germany, not a huge issue. I would assume having a German business would satisfy part of the "centre of life" test. 

So our plan would be:
Husband returns to India, applies for a schengen tourist visa to a country in the schengen area. We meet in said country and enter Germany together. 
We've looked into temp accommodation, that should be ok initially. I set up my German business in the first month (the legal side of it anyway), I am then at that point exercising treaty rights? Husband then applies for residence card? Is it possible to do it this way?


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## stormystar2016

Oh I should just add that we're planning to do this in a couple of months so, in theory, I could go over to Germany any time before then to just set up the business if that helps? 

Basically my work can be done from anywhere in Europe and can be conducted via a German company.


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## ALKB

stormystar2016 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> The one area where I guess we're a bit lucky is that we have savings. So, if we're looking to minimise the time we spend apart, is it better to just enter on the tourist visa? I don't really want to have to set up accommodation etc etc by myself! Work wise, I have my own business. I've looked into setting up an equivalent in Germany, not a huge issue. I would assume having a German business would satisfy part of the "centre of life" test.
> 
> So our plan would be:
> Husband returns to India, applies for a schengen tourist visa to a country in the schengen area. We meet in said country and enter Germany together.
> We've looked into temp accommodation, that should be ok initially. I set up my German business in the first month (the legal side of it anyway), I am then at that point exercising treaty rights? Husband then applies for residence card? Is it possible to do it this way?


He can apply for a short term Schengen visa at the German Embassy. The visa form asks for information on EEA family members if applicable. Filling that information should get it processed under the directive of free movement.

A lot of Embassy staff is often local (or just resentful regarding EU rules) and since applications under EU rules are not that numerous, they don't get trained in it very well. If they give you grief when submitting your application, show them a print out of the directive and insist that you want to apply under EU rules. You should get an answer within 15 days.

Self employment is a difficult way to exercise treaty rights because you might need some time to get the business running. I am not sure what exactly the Ausländerbehörde will ask for as proof that your self-employement is genuine and effective. In any case, don't start trading before you have registered with the Gewerbeamt and the tax office!!!!

(If you keep your UK business running, keep a home there, etc. HO might use this against you regarding centre of life rules.)

If you work from home and you are renting in Germany, you also might need permission from your landlord to register a business to that address.


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## stormystar2016

Ah ok, so that explains why they kept telling us he should apply for family reunification.

Ok, so he could potentially get the EEA permit but would I still need both an address and a job (or business) prior to his application? I'm sorry, it's just all so confusing! We're just trying to avoid spending rent money for instance, when he's in India and I'd be just there on my own waiting! We've really just had such a bad experience with the Home Office in the UK that we're wary of spending large amounts of money (like a large rent deposit etc) before he's actually in Germany, in case something goes wrong. This is why we were leaning towards him getting the tourist visa and sorting it out together, as we can afford hotels etc in the interim. We just need to make sure he can switch from a Schengen visa to a residence permit as soon as we/he are eligible.

Thanks for your advice re the business side. It is a little more complicated than in the UK, but still doable I feel. I get your point re self employment. I do actually speak reasonable German so potentially I could maybe just get a short term, minimum wage job somewhere just to fulfil the criteria.


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## ALKB

stormystar2016 said:


> Ah ok, so that explains why they kept telling us he should apply for family reunification.
> 
> Ok, so he could potentially get the EEA permit but would I still need both an address and a job (or business) prior to his application? I'm sorry, it's just all so confusing! We're just trying to avoid spending rent money for instance, when he's in India and I'd be just there on my own waiting! We've really just had such a bad experience with the Home Office in the UK that we're wary of spending large amounts of money (like a large rent deposit etc) before he's actually in Germany, in case something goes wrong. This is why we were leaning towards him getting the tourist visa and sorting it out together, as we can afford hotels etc in the interim. We just need to make sure he can switch from a Schengen visa to a residence permit as soon as we/he are eligible.
> 
> Thanks for your advice re the business side. It is a little more complicated than in the UK, but still doable I feel. I get your point re self employment. I do actually speak reasonable German so potentially I could maybe just get a short term, minimum wage job somewhere just to fulfil the criteria.



EEA permit is a UK term, he would apply for a short term Schengen visa under EU rules. For that, you would have to show that he will either travel with you to Germany or join you in Germany (you'd need to show that you are registered there for that).

For the first few weeks a sublet or flatshare would probably be easiest and you can use that address.

Don't forget that by law you need adequate health insurance from the day you register your residence.

He can switch from the normal Schengen visa within 90 days of arrival but be aware that attitudes towards non-EEA spouses of EEA nationals have shifted somewhat since January 2014 - things seem a lot stricter and not as quick as they used to be.

Also, the immigration departments (the local Ausländerbehörden) are working with a skeleton staff right now because everyone available has been put to work on asylum cases and are completely overwhelmed by the refugee crisis.


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## stormystar2016

Well this is exactly why we don't want to apply under family reunification as I imagine that could take a year or more in the current situation. 

Ok so are you saying we can't do it via a tourist visa? That's really the main thing I'm trying to clarify. As in just get him into German legally first and then sort out the residence issue.


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## stormystar2016

Oh re the health insurance, I know my husband would need it but I have a European health insurance card and I read that it's covers me for either up to a year or when I become employed in Germany. Is that not correct?


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## Bevdeforges

An EHIC is health coverage for traveling only and it covers only urgent or necessary care while you're outside your home country. The other kicker is that the EHIC requires you to remain resident in your home country - which kind of negates the basis on which your husband is going to claim a German residence card.
Cheers,
Bev


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## ALKB

stormystar2016 said:


> Oh re the health insurance, I know my husband would need it but I have a European health insurance card and I read that it's covers me for either up to a year or when I become employed in Germany. Is that not correct?


Any German health insurance you join will charge you retroactively from the day you register in Germany.

Also, carefully look into your options regarding health insurance while self-employed, it can be pricey. Also, check their terms regarding dependents. If you are employed, spouses without their own income are insured for free via family insurance, terms can be different for self-employment and your husband will also need insurance from the day he registers.


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## ALKB

stormystar2016 said:


> Well this is exactly why we don't want to apply under family reunification as I imagine that could take a year or more in the current situation.
> 
> Ok so are you saying we can't do it via a tourist visa? That's really the main thing I'm trying to clarify. As in just get him into German legally first and then sort out the residence issue.


He can come via a short term Schengen visa and then apply for an Aufenthaltskarte (residence card) within 90 days of arrival.

All I am saying is that processing might take quite a bit of time, case workers might or might not be less sympathetic and I have no idea what the authorities will ask for as proof of genuine and effective self-employment.

Do you speak German at all? What would be your chances to get a job? Anything of at least 16 hours/week would make you a qualified person and things so much more easy for you.


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## stormystar2016

ALKB said:


> Do you speak German at all? What would be your chances to get a job? Anything of at least 16 hours/week would make you a qualified person and things so much more easy for you.


I speak passable German, I'm half Swiss so it is a bit more Swiss German as opposed to high German! But, probably enough to get like a little cleaning job, or basic admin, something like that. So I guess it's dependant then on how the employment market is for that type of work.


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## ALKB

stormystar2016 said:


> I speak passable German, I'm half Swiss so it is a bit more Swiss German as opposed to high German! But, probably enough to get like a little cleaning job, or basic admin, something like that. So I guess it's dependant then on how the employment market is for that type of work.


Any kind of German knowledge will help!

Where are you planning to go? I'd stick to bigger towns and cities.

People in the south (maybe try Basel?) might be better able to understand you than people in northern Germany. I once utterly failed at buying the piece of quiche I wanted in a bakery in Bern because I was only there for the day, coming up from Geneva, and I had underestimated just how different Bärndütsch sounded from anything I was used to. At least I could read signs


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## stormystar2016

Lol, yes people don't always realise but the language can be very different.

That's actually the area we're thinking of going as it's also then relatively close to the family I have in Switzerland. In fact ultimately we wouldn't mind going to Switzerland permenantly but the cost of living is so high that my husband and I would both need good enough German to undertake our professions there, because a low paid job just isn't going to be enough. I do have citizenship there (which I actually only had confirmed recently) so we could go under the family reunification route but, on balance, it seems better to go to Germany first as also I couldn't exercise treaty rights in Switzerland. So we want to both study German while in Germany, and see from there. That's why we're not sure if we'll go down the Surinder Singh route as we might not want to bother with trying to get back to the UK.


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## ALKB

stormystar2016 said:


> Lol, yes people don't always realise but the language can be very different.
> 
> That's actually the area we're thinking of going as it's also then relatively close to the family I have in Switzerland. In fact ultimately we wouldn't mind going to Switzerland permenantly but the cost of living is so high that my husband and I would both need good enough German to undertake our professions there, because a low paid job just isn't going to be enough. I do have citizenship there (which I actually only had confirmed recently) so we could go under the family reunification route but, on balance, it seems better to go to Germany first as also I couldn't exercise treaty rights in Switzerland. So we want to both study German while in Germany, and see from there. That's why we're not sure if we'll go down the Surinder Singh route as we might not want to bother with trying to get back to the UK.


Geneva could be an alternative for later on - due to all the NGOs, Embassies and the United Nations based there, half the population is foreign anyhow and a lot of people complain that they struggle to learn French because everybody speaks English.

Also: great shopping in neighbouring France! I used to take the bus to the big supermarket right behind the border at least twice a month. Everything seems so cheap with a Swiss salary...


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