# Work for a UK company from Spain



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi all,

Is there anyone out there that lives in Spain that is employed by a UK company?

I work from home for a small company on their PAYE system and would like to move out to Spain but need to know how it works from a tax and national insurance perspective.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

SBBeginner said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is there anyone out there that lives in Spain that is employed by a UK company?
> 
> ...


Don't know anything about this, but if you scroll down on this page you'll find links to similar threads that might help you


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. Some useful posts on there but there still seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding this.

Surely it can't be that difficult to work for a UK company from Spain.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

SBBeginner said:


> Thanks for the reply. Some useful posts on there but there still seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding this.
> 
> Surely it can't be that difficult to work for a UK company from Spain.


It's not difficult at all. 

What is difficult (maybe) is doing it in the most efficient and cost-effective way.


If you speak to the experts here in Spain then there will be no confusion either.


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

I do need to seek some expert advice on this to make sure I get it right first time. Does anyone have any good accountants that can help me with this?

The only ones I have found online so far are: Blevins Franks

I'm looking to move close to Torrevieja so an firm that have offices near there would be beneficial.


----------



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I know many people who use Blevins and from what I have been told, they are very good.


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

thrax said:


> I know many people who use Blevins and from what I have been told, they are very good.



How are they on price? I don't mind paying the money for good service but obviously I don't want to be paying over the odds.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Why don't you seek advice first from HMRC inland revenue in your area. I did when I was moving here and they were most helpful, and the information/advice given was absolutely correct.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

SBBeginner said:


> I do need to seek some expert advice on this to make sure I get it right first time. Does anyone have any good accountants that can help me with this?
> 
> The only ones I have found online so far are: Blevins Franks
> 
> I'm looking to move close to Torrevieja so an firm that have offices near there would be beneficial.


You are a company director or straightforward employee paying NI and tax at source?


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> You are a company director or straightforward employee paying NI and tax at source?


I'm an employee on the PAYE system paying tax and NI at source.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

SBBeginner said:


> I'm an employee on the PAYE system paying tax and NI at source.


I'm in effect employed by a UK company, but have been tax resident in Spain. I declare my income to the spanish tax authority, and you can deduct any tax paid in the UK. In the UK you have a personal allowance of course. You also have one in Spain.


----------



## acidliam (Jul 4, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> You are a company director or straightforward employee paying NI and tax at source?


Out of interest whats the difference? I'm a director of my company in UK and moving over to Spain. Do I need to declare my income and tax in Spain?


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

acidliam said:


> Out of interest whats the difference? I'm a director of my company in UK and moving over to Spain. Do I need to declare my income and tax in Spain?


Yes, but if you are a clever company director you can be constructive. If its your own company you can juggle things a little, I bet you have an expense account. Do you employ your wife to take advantage of personal allowances? In a past company, my wife worked for me for years, although actually rarely saw the offices


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> I'm in effect employed by a UK company, but have been tax resident in Spain. I declare my income to the spanish tax authority, and you can deduct any tax paid in the UK. In the UK you have a personal allowance of course. You also have one in Spain.


So basically I can earn my UK income as normal. Then fill out a tax return in Spain and pay whatever I owe extra in Spain?

How does it work with healthcare doing it that way? I have a young family and having access to doctors etc is essential.
How long are you allowed to work in that way for? Is it possible to work this way for ever or is there some time limit?

Thanks again for all the replies.


----------



## acidliam (Jul 4, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes, but if you are a clever company director you can be constructive. If its your own company you can juggle things a little, I bet you have an expense account. Do you employ your wife to take advantage of personal allowances? In a past company, my wife worked for me for years, although actually rarely saw the offices


My brothers a chartered accountant so yep, fully on top of all the little tips and tricks. I was just under the impression I carried on working for my UK company and didn't have to really do much in Spain as I paid my tax in the UK?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

acidliam said:


> My brothers a chartered accountant so yep, fully on top of all the little tips and tricks. I was just under the impression I carried on working for my UK company and didn't have to really do much in Spain as I paid my tax in the UK?


if you're living here in Spain, you have to submit a tax return - so not quite as simple as you thought


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> I'm in effect employed by a UK company, but have been tax resident in Spain. I declare my income to the spanish tax authority, and you can deduct any tax paid in the UK. In the UK you have a personal allowance of course. You also have one in Spain.


(I'm re-posting this from earlier so it doesn't get lost, thanks.)

So basically I can earn my UK income as normal. Then fill out a tax return in Spain and pay whatever I owe extra in Spain?

How does it work with healthcare doing it that way? I have a young family and having access to doctors etc is essential.
How long are you allowed to work in that way for? Is it possible to work this way for ever or is there some time limit?

Thanks again for all the replies.


----------



## acidliam (Jul 4, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> if you're living here in Spain, you have to submit a tax return - so not quite as simple as you thought


Everyday is a school day! Thats fine, I don't mind doing it all properly. Am I likely to be liable for tax in Spain if I'm declaring in the UK. ie are there differences in the personal allowances etc?


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

acidliam said:


> Everyday is a school day! Thats fine, I don't mind doing it all properly. Am I likely to be liable for tax in Spain if I'm declaring in the UK. ie are there differences in the personal allowances etc?


As far as I'm aware there are differences. I think the personal allowance is 5151 euros (don't quote me on that but I think I read it somewhere). Then the tax rates are different in Spain. I think 0-17000 is 25% 17-33k 30% 33-53.4k 40% 

Bit of a difference from the UK.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

acidliam said:


> Everyday is a school day! Thats fine, I don't mind doing it all properly. Am I likely to be liable for tax in Spain if I'm declaring in the UK. ie are there differences in the personal allowances etc?


there is an agreement between Spain & the UK, so you almost certainly wouldn't pay any more than you do already

there are differences, but I'll let someone who knows more than I to answer you


----------



## acidliam (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks, to be honest, once settled, I think a Gestor is in order for all this! But it good to know in advance the situation. I suppose if I am declaring tax in Spain too, I get all the social benefits, healthcare etc?


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

acidliam said:


> Thanks, to be honest, once settled, I think a Gestor is in order for all this! But it good to know in advance the situation. I suppose if I am declaring tax in Spain too, I get all the social benefits, healthcare etc?


That's exactly what I want to know as per my previous two posts. Does anyone have an answer to this? 

Thanks,


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

SBBeginner said:


> That's exactly what I want to know as per my previous two posts. Does anyone have an answer to this?
> 
> Thanks,


I'm not sure that question can be answered, some will say yes, others will say no, you have to pay social security contributions.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SBBeginner said:


> That's exactly what I want to know as per my previous two posts. Does anyone have an answer to this?
> 
> Thanks,


if you're working for a UK company & paying tax & NI there, you can get S1 forms from the DWP which give you access to state healthcare in Spain via a reciprocal agreement - there is a time limit on this though, afaik

healthcare etc in Spain isn't linked to tax - it's directly linked to social security/NI payments here, so unless you're paying NI here, you can't access healthcare via that route

there are no other social benefits - except of course a pension, eventually


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

SBBeginner said:


> (I'm re-posting this from earlier so it doesn't get lost, thanks.)
> 
> So basically I can earn my UK income as normal. Then fill out a tax return in Spain and pay whatever I owe extra in Spain?
> 
> ...


No, you're not going to get healthcare that way apart from the temporary care you get from the S1. Spanish residents have to declare their worldwide income, but that doesnt mean you benefit from the health system.

If you actually resided in the UK and your family lived here, then there would be a possibility that they would get care.

Becoming a Spanish resident you are no longer able to access the NHS service. Your main option is probably going to be private health care, which actually isnt that expensive in Spain compared to elsewhere. Try Seguro de salud - Seguros - Seguro dental - Seguros médicos - Seguro médico online - Residencias - médicos - hospitales



acidliam said:


> Everyday is a school day! Thats fine, I don't mind doing it all properly. Am I likely to be liable for tax in Spain if I'm declaring in the UK. ie are there differences in the personal allowances etc?


Yes there are differences in the allowances and tax rates. This is when you have to get a gestor who specialises in tax


----------



## Nuflow (Jul 10, 2013)

I have recently moved to Spain whilst working for a UK employer. I wanted to do it all properly so I wouldn't have any headaches later on. 

Ringing the HMRC was difficult as they didn't think I could continue working for a UK employer, but weren't sure. I therefore, decided to go down the route of becoming resident/fiscal resident in Spain and declaring the tax I paid in UK - which means I have an extra amount to pay in Spain but happy with this.

I have also been in touch regarding National Insurance Contributions and told I shouldn't be paying these - but can pay "voluntary" amounts. I asked about using some of our NIC's to provide some health cover (temporarily) when we first arrived in Spain (both myself and husband have paid regular NICs for years) and was told we couldn't claim for any health cover at all.

I have been told I may need to become self employed in Spain to continue working for my UK employer. Our accountant is looking into this for us.

I hope this helps, although I can't guarantee what I've said is accurate as it appears to vary depending on who you get to speak to at HMRC offices (and obviously individual circumstances may differ).


----------



## SBBeginner (Jul 9, 2013)

Nuflow said:


> I have recently moved to Spain whilst working for a UK employer. I wanted to do it all properly so I wouldn't have any headaches later on.
> 
> Ringing the HMRC was difficult as they didn't think I could continue working for a UK employer, but weren't sure. I therefore, decided to go down the route of becoming resident/fiscal resident in Spain and declaring the tax I paid in UK - which means I have an extra amount to pay in Spain but happy with this.
> 
> ...



My main concern is the health care side of things. We have a baby due in August and were thinking to move out in November (probably will push this back now), so having adequate health care is paramount. I suppose if the NICs become optional then the money saved on NICs could be used to pay for medical insurance. Would that work? I guess the only drawback would be be not paying NICs in UK or Spain will mean no pension when the time comes. Although the way things are going it wouldn't surprise me if there was hardly any state pension at all by the time I retire. Either that or they'll raise the age so much that I wont have may years left anyway.


----------



## Nuflow (Jul 10, 2013)

As HMRC have told us we couldn't claim for any help with healthcare even on a temporary basis, (although our NICs were up to date and we were both employed full time in UK since leaving school), we are having to look at private healthcare.

Saying that, we love it in Spain and wouldnt return to UK to live , so accept that its just one of the minor blips in life


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Nuflow said:


> I have recently moved to Spain whilst working for a UK employer. I wanted to do it all properly so I wouldn't have any headaches later on.
> 
> Ringing the HMRC was difficult as they didn't think I could continue working for a UK employer, but weren't sure. I therefore, decided to go down the route of becoming resident/fiscal resident in Spain and declaring the tax I paid in UK - which means I have an extra amount to pay in Spain but happy with this.
> 
> ...


I pulled away from commenting on this, as you have obviously been researching

Firstly, you CAN work for a UK company when living abroad, its a common thing and I'm not sure why anyone would tell you different

You can get temporary health cover in Spain if you have been paying regular NI in the UK. This can extend to about 2 years

How can you be self employed in Spain, when you dont actually do any work in Spain. I am "employed" in the UK. I declare my income (worldwide income) in Spain. That is what they expect me to do, and thats why I make annual tax returns as a private individual that is declaring his worldwide income

Health care. Sanitas charged us €1150 a year for two in their mid fifties. This is less than the €238 + per month that you would pay if you decided to register as autonomo

Finally, most UK accountants dont fully understand Spanish Tax laws. Most Spanish accountants dont understand UK tax affairs fully. You maybe need one in each country


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Nuflow said:


> As HMRC have told us we couldn't claim for any help with healthcare even on a temporary basis, (although our NICs were up to date and we were both employed full time in UK since leaving school), we are having to look at private healthcare.
> 
> Saying that, we love it in Spain and wouldnt return to UK to live , so accept that its just one of the minor blips in life


You are talking to the wrong people!
You need to talk to the Department of Work and Pensions in Newcastle. They will tell you how much you can claim based on your contributions. It can, as I said before, be up to 2 years. After that, private is probably going to be your main option, but use a Spanish compasny. NOT a UK company offering Spanish cover. As stated, Seguro de salud - Seguros - Seguro dental - Seguros médicos - Seguro médico online - Residencias - médicos - hospitales may be a place to start


----------



## Nuflow (Jul 10, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> You are talking to the wrong people!
> You need to talk to the Department of Work and Pensions in Newcastle. They will tell you how much you can claim based on your contributions. It can, as I said before, be up to 2 years. After that, private is probably going to be your main option, but use a Spanish compasny. NOT a UK company offering Spanish cover. As stated, Seguro de salud - Seguros - Seguro dental - Seguros médicos - Seguro médico online - Residencias - médicos - hospitales[/url] may be a place to start


Sorry Stravinsky, I should have been clearer. I did ring HMRC about the Tax situation; then I rang the NIC - the number for the section in Newcastle for people coming overseas - and eventually spoke to someone there - who advised us that we don't qualify for any healthcare assistance. 

I just think if you don't have any expectations then you won't be disappointed as you have anticipated a worst case scenario so things can only get better

I'll take a look at Sanitas policies thank you.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Nuflow said:


> Sorry Stravinsky, I should have been clearer. I did ring HMRC about the Tax situation; then I rang the NIC - the number for the section in Newcastle for people coming overseas - and eventually spoke to someone there - who advised us that we don't qualify for any healthcare assistance.
> 
> I just think if you don't have any expectations then you won't be disappointed as you have anticipated a worst case scenario so things can only get better
> 
> I'll take a look at Sanitas policies thank you.


I'm sorry I don't understand 
If you have been making regular NI payments in the UK then based on your past year or so's contributions you ARE eligible for temporary health cover in Spain under the S1 arrangement

That's unless (a) the rules have just changed and I don't know about it (b) you haven't made sufficient NI payments or (c) you've already been in Spain for years and are retro claiming.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> I'm sorry I don't understand
> If you have been making regular NI payments in the UK then based on your past year or so's contributions you ARE eligible for temporary health cover in Spain under the S1 arrangement
> 
> That's unless (a) the rules have just changed and I don't know about it (b) you haven't made sufficient NI payments or (c) you've already been in Spain for years and are retro claiming.


if it HAS changed, the Overseas Healthcare Team don't know about it...........

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-in-spain


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> I'm sorry I don't understand
> If you have been making regular NI payments in the UK then based on your past year or so's contributions you ARE eligible for temporary health cover in Spain under the S1 arrangement
> 
> That's unless (a) the rules have just changed and I don't know about it (b) you haven't made sufficient NI payments or (c) you've already been in Spain for years and are retro claiming.


The rules haven't changed yet, BUT, under the current consultation on charging migrants for healthcare in the UK, there is a proposal to stop issuing S1 forms from the 1st April 2014. This is the consultation which will allow former UK residents access to healthcare in the UK ( subject to certain criteria) that was publicised about 10 days ago.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> The rules haven't changed yet, BUT, under the current consultation on charging migrants for healthcare in the UK, there is a proposal to stop issuing S1 forms from the 1st April 2014. This is the consultation which will allow former UK residents access to healthcare in the UK ( subject to certain criteria) that was publicised about 10 days ago.


I hadn't read the whole thing, but I'm not surprised that something like this would be included.............


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> I hadn't read the whole thing, but I'm not surprised that something like this would be included.............


Forecast to save £4m


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> Forecast to save £4m


so... will the UK not be picking up the healthcare bill here for early retirees then?

as I understand it UK citizens could be able to return to the UK for routine medical care & ops etc.... (lets face it, that's what a huge number do anyway )


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> so... will the UK not be picking up the healthcare bill here for early retirees then?
> 
> as I understand it UK citizens could be able to return to the UK for routine medical care & ops etc.... (lets face it, that's what a huge number do anyway )


They never really have .... it was a temporary cover designed to help people when they first moved to Spain, but in reality it took us nearly as long as we had cover to get the thing sorted out.

In any case, if its coming in 2014, then that means that someone applying now can still get it I assume


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> They never really have .... it was a temporary cover designed to help people when they first moved to Spain, but in reality it took us nearly as long as we had cover to get the thing sorted out.
> 
> In any case, if its coming in 2014, then that means that someone applying now can still get it I assume


yes, exactly - I would have thought you can still get it - if you qualify

most people I know in the past year or so, who have arranged for the S1 before they came over, have had no problems at all - S1 arrived within a couple of weeks, register as resident, get SS number & tarjeta sanitaria pretty much all done straight away


----------

