# Anyone living in Tlaquepaque?



## DebInFL

Plans are going forward for my move to Mexico. I had settled on Guadalajara, but a friend suggested I try Tlaquepaque because housing is cheaper, it's only a 30 minute bus ride away from Guadalajara, and it's much quieter. 

I can't find much about living there online. Can anyone tell me how they like it? I like the fact it's an artist community. 

Is the bus service decent? Does it have a market or produce stores? I read Guadalajara doesn't have a market, and was not happy with that.

Is there an ambulance service that goes to Guadalajara, or a hospital there? What is the health care like, or do you have to "go to town" for doctors?

I'll be looking for something small at first, a 1 BR or studio. I'd like to eventually rent a small home with a yard large enough where I can garden, maybe grow some fruit trees. My friend says you can find that for about what I'm paying here for a 1 BR 500sf apartment ($775 with utilities).

Latest planned moving date is August 1, 2020. I want to get out of here before the election. Got pushed back a few months, and may be sooner, but that's the plan now. Starting now to sell everything. Will store some things that I'll ship over later once I'm settled.


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## citlali

No Guadalajara does not have a market , it has many many markets.. It is a city of several millions people, you can find just about anything you wish to find. 
Tlaquepaque used to be a separate town it is now part of Guadalajara. The center is fancy and commercial and the rest, just like other districts some good some bad.

You really should not shop for a place from afar. Rent a small place or stay in a hotel for a month , do a lot of exploring and decide.. forget the internet for a while , until you figure out what area is good for you.
Guadalajara has lots of places that are nice to live in , it all depends on your taste and budget but really you can find something in your budget any place you will look at.

I do not think of Tlaquepaque as an artist area.. it has many artisans and fancy store. If you want a garden look outside of town not in Tonala or Tlaquepaque. If you live in Tlaquepaque you do not need to go to Guadalajara you are in Guadalajara.

You do not need to go to town to go and see a doctor, there are doctors in Tlaquepaque. If you want the fancy hospitals and doctors there are in Providencia and Zapopan which ia a way from Tlaquepaque.


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## TundraGreen

As Citlali said, Guadalajara and Tlaquepaque are both part of the same large metropolitan area. You can't tell one from the other unless you notice a big sign over a street saying you are entering one of them.

Guadalajara has lots of markets:
Abastos - A large wholesale produce market that also does retail
San Juan de Dios - the largest indoor market in western hemisphere I believe. You can get anything you can imagine there.
Local mercados - there are hundreds of these maybe thousands. Selling fruits, vegetables, meat, poultry, etc.
There is even a fish market although we are hundreds of kilometers from the sea.

Bus service is great: cheap and frequent. The buses are old, the suspensions often non-existent, and they can be crowded on some lines.

Apartments/houses with yards are only available in the more expensive neighborhoods. Roof or patio gardens in planters are easier to come by.

There are hospitals and doctors on pretty much every corner. Lots of doctors get their training in Guadalara, even some US doctors. Dozens of ambulance services.

Tlaquepaque has a lot of upscale art stores in its Centro. Tonala has lots of ceramic art, especially on Thursdays and Sundays. Native art is sold on the street in lots of places and the state runs a combination museum/shop where you can buy native arts (Artesanias Jalisco).


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## DebInFL

Thanks for the info. I do plan to base myself in Guadalajara and look to see where I want to live. Not having a vehicle, I have to be somewhere that I can find decent transportation.

Well, I guess I will have to find a way to look outside of Guadalajara for what I want. I'm looking more for a town where there is maybe a weekend open-air market in the plaza. I know I've seen them and heard about them, but I can't remember where. I don't think I could be somewhere permanently without a yard. That's just something that is seriously important to me. We'll see. Maybe a smaller town somewhere as a permanent home.


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## citlali

Many people in this country do not have a car so public transportation is good..do not worry about it, you will figure it out when you are here.


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## citlali

The markets that are in building and held everyday are called mercados, the open air markets that come and go are called tianguis.. Not sure why you think they are on the weekends.. Some are but most of them are not and most of them last one day and move on.. 
Do not assume anything. When you get here it will all fall in place. Space is at a premium in cities but there are suburbs with houses and land around and they are small towns with houses that have land that come with the house. Do not rush into anything.look around and you will find what you want. You can also find houses with patios or near parks.


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## DebInFL

Thanks, Cilali. I don't want much of a yard, but just having green space around me is important. I now have maybe about 500sf of gardens in tiny spots around my apartment & in my courtyard, and that's really quite enough for me. As long as I have a small place where I can plant flowers and grow some veggies & fruit, I'll be happy.

It's just such a big step and something I thought I wouldn't ever be able to do, but I can't stay in this country with the way the hatred and meanness is everywhere. I don't feel safe going out at night anymore. The worst thing is that I'm spending almost 70% of my income on housing & utilities! I'm just exhausted. I want to get out an enjoy the final quarter of my life.


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## dichosalocura

DebInFL, good luck with your move, you must be very excited. Have you ever traveled to México before? Jalisco is a beautiful state and Guadalajara is a wonderful city but very very large. Tlaquepaque is very quaint in the centro part. Back in the 1800´s it was a small pueblo where the wealthy families of Guadalajara would have weekend estates to get away from the hustle and bustle of busy Guadalajara. Now it has been swallowed up by Guadalajara. I love visiting the city but I also love gardening and to find a reasonably priced home with a decent sized garden will be hard to find in the city. Perhaps on the outskirts. That is why we chose the Chapala area just 45 mins down the road from Guadalajara. Many people here have gorgeous gardens full of fruit trees and all kinds of exotic plants. We luckily found a house in downtown Chapala with a fairly decent sized garden where I have planted lots of fruit trees a few years ago, (bananas, avocado, lichi, black sapote, Soursop, ice cream bean tree, mandarin, blueberry and raspberry bushes.) So far all we have gotten are the bananas, mandarins, blueberries and raspberries and still waiting on the others to give fruit. We also have a small organic style garden where we grow all sorts of veggies throughout the year. Gardening can be a lot of fun in México, since most things grow fairly easily here. You just need to know the best times for planting, is all. For example, this winter we did parsnips, kohlrabi, golden beats, red cabbage, turnips and brussel sprouts among other things. We planted in mid October and most things turned out fantastically wonderful except the brussel sprouts, they started out beautifully and just a couple of weeks ago they started to grow brussel sprouts up in down the stalks but then the heat came, now they are going to seed before the brussel sprouts are even done growing, the heat causes them to open up, so now we know to plant earlier, like in early September. It is a learning process but truly rewarding.


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## citlali

Good luck with your dream, there are lots of small towns around Guadalajara where you can get your dream, The Chapala area is more expensive than it used to be but there are lots of small towns without many foreigners where you can get what you want and still be close to a big city...take your time to look around, you ll find what you want.


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## DebInFL

Citlali, I live in Florida, and Mexico's seasons are a lot like ours, in fact, when people from up north move here, we tell them to forget everything they know about gardening, because Florida is a whole different world. Our seasons are also reversed, because it's too hot in the summer to grow much of anything. 

I'm sure I can find something I will be able to afford eventually. If I can find a way to still earn money online, I will have more options. I know people do it, but illegally. I don't want to get caught and kicked out of the country once I FINALLY get there!


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## citlali

Mexico is a very large country and the weather changes according to the altitude which you do not have in Florida. I lived on the gulf in Mexico in Alabama for a few years and I can assure you that there is no comparison between Guadalajara and Florida. On the coast ok but not in the mountains. We are at 5000 feet and the humidity is low, the nights are cool no matter when..
If you work on-line and get paid in dollars in the US then you owe taxes to the US ..I do not see Mexico kicking you out if you pay taxes in one place or another. As long as you follow the law you will have no problem.


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## DebInFL

I wouldn't cheat the US government. I'm too afraid of them. LOL

I know the interior in the mountains is drier and cooler, which is why I wanted to live there, but I will definitely miss the trees. I may miss them so much I will have to move further south. I can deal with the heat and humidity, but barrenness is depressing to me. But we'll see how I feel once I get there and find a place to settle for awhile.


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## ojosazules11

DebInFL said:


> I wouldn't cheat the US government. I'm too afraid of them. LOL
> 
> I know the interior in the mountains is drier and cooler, which is why I wanted to live there, but I will definitely miss the trees. I may miss them so much I will have to move further south. I can deal with the heat and humidity, but barrenness is depressing to me. But we'll see how I feel once I get there and find a place to settle for awhile.


I don't know the Guadalajara/Chapala area, in terms of trees or barrenness. But where we have our house, in Tepoztlan, Morelos (about 20 minutes from Cuernavaca, and 1 hr 20 minutes south of Mexico City) there are lots of trees and it is not at all barren. In fact our place, which is a small house on about 700 m2 of surrounding land on the outskirts of town at an altitude of 1900 m (6230 ft), is surrounded by trees, with lots of birdsong both at dawn and dusk. We're right on the edge of a forest, the Tepozteco National Park, which is a protected bioreserve. There are also lots of flowers, vines, exuberant bougainvillea spilling over stone walls. It truly is a region of eternal spring.

Wishing you the best of luck in your adventure of finding the place that will be "just right" for you.


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## ojosazules11

In terms of markets in our town, we have a permanent 7 day per week market (el mercado) in the central plaza (semi-open air - it is not roofed, but everyone has the brightly coloured tarps over top to protect from both sun and rain) where you can get all manner of fruits, vegetables, meat, chicken, fresh hand-made tortillas (being made as you wait), cheese, flowers, notions, fresh juices and lots of stalls to eat prepared food (quesadillas, huaraches, tlacoyos, itacates, caldos, sopes, tortas, tamales, pre-hispanic foods, etc. etc.). There is also the artisanal market set up as a "tianguis" on the main street on Saturday and Sunday, and also a smaller tianguis on Wednesdays. And there are also some smaller fruit and vegetable open air markets (tianguis) in outlying parts of town - I know of one that is only on Sundays - we often go there as the prices are better than in the main market.


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## citlali

right now the hills north of Ajijic and Chapala have a bunch of fires , the mountains are covered with trees ..


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## ojosazules11

citlali said:


> right now the hills north of Ajijic and Chapala have a bunch of fires , the mountains are covered with trees ..


Forest fires are all too common in the forests around Tepoztlan as well, from Feb - May, given how dry it gets prior to the return of the rain. There is a ban on the burning of fields in preparation for planting, but old traditions die hard. Other causes of fire in recent years have been visitors hiking in the mountains, and being careless with fire (e.g. dropping a cigarette). 

Right now there is a water crisis in Tepoztlan due to how hot and dry it is, and the "pipas" (water trucks to fill cisterns) are hard to come by right now. There is major highway construction by our town, and my husband noted that there are a lot of pipas of water at the construction site to help compact the earth, so he is wondering if the amount of water being used on that infrastructure project is part of the current shortage. He has lived in Tepoztlan dating back 36 years, and does not remember it ever being this bad. According to weather.com, the first day with a significant probability of rain (80%) is on Thursday, May 16. Ojalá.


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## Isla Verde

Speaking of trees in Mexico, there are lots of them in my neighborhood in the center of Mexico City, near El Angel and El Paseo de la Reforma, a lovely avenue lined with trees. I am a short bus ride from the Bosque de Chapultepec, a huge park full of trees and flowers and other sorts of green stuff, and the home of several of the city's most important museums. It was once the private retreat of Aztec royalty, but now is definitely "the people's park".


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## DebInFL

I might be ok in an apartment if I had green spaces to go to, but I'd prefer a small yard to grow my own veggies. We'll see once I get there. I'm also looking at some cities in Oaxaca that I just learned about. I'll probably move around for a few years until I find a place to really settle, but when you live out of two large suitcases, that isn't so hard, is it?


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## dichosalocura

DebInFl, one of the greatest disservices that US media and Hollywood have done to México is give the impression to US citizens is that México is all desert. The truth is that the most barren parts are the parts that are close to the US border (the parts most Americans see when they cross the border into México to visit the border towns.) The truth is that the USA has far more desert than México could ever dream of having. Think of West Texas, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona and etc. Once you get down past the states of Zacatecas and San Luís Potosí, México starts becoming rather lush and forested. Jalisco is a very green and forested state for the most part. It has some dry areas of course, but most of it is very green and forested. I am from North Carolina, so I see where you are coming from. The Guadalajara area and Lake Chapala is a very beautiful area with lots and lots of trees everywhere. But if you want to live in an area that looks more like western North Carolina, similar to the Blue Ridge Mountains, so to speak, just go higher up in elevation to places like Mazamitla, Tapalpa, Mascota, and San Sebastián del Oeste, those areas are high altitude and full of dense pine forests that smell heavenly. In fact Mazamitla is just a two hour drive across the lake from the city of Chapala. Check out the videos on youtube about these locations. In Chapala, you are far from living in a desert. Sure the mountains turn brown in the dry season or winter that is, but in the summer rainy season it looks like Hawaii, and the towns and gardens stay green year round with just a little watering.
Here is a short video that I found on youtube about someone that drove from Texas to Ajijic, Lake Chapala during the rainy season. It appears that they drove down by way of the Zacatecas route, as you can see, near the border it is very dry and desert like, but by midway down it starts to get rather green and gorgeous looking. I think Jalisco begins around the 3:30 minutes. From there it just gets greener and more forested until you get to the Ajijic, Chapala area. Down here, we are not living in a desert, all the contrary, it is green and beautiful down here.


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## dichosalocura




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## dichosalocura

Ok, on my end, after I posted the video on this forum it is saying that it is unavailable, but it plays beautifully on Youtube, so just search for it, if it doesn't play for you. Maybe, we are not allowed to post youtube videos here. I dunno.


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## DebInFL

dichosalocura, thanks for the video. It played for me. 

I may have to rethink my entire plan. I was only looking at the climate in Guadalajara, and didn't notice the altitude, which is the same as Denver. I went to Denver and could hardly breathe because the air was so thin, and was just so tired all the time for lack of oxygen. I was there two weeks and my body never did adjust and I had a hard time with my asthma. That was when I was in my 40's, so in my 60's, I doubt I could take the elevation. I will probably have to be closer to the coast, even though the climate would be rougher. 

I'm going to come on a visitor visa at first, take six months and try as many places as possible, but right now, I think I won't start out in Guadalajara after learning about the elevation, and also about the regular flooding there in the summer. 

I know there is no perfect climate, but I'm not young anymore, and I do have some health issues I need to be careful of. Even if I have to live in a place that is just as unbearably hot and humid in the summer as where I am, it will still be more affordable and offer me a better way of life.


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## DebInFL

Just want to add for all of you touting Lake Chapala, that I'm not trying to be mean spirited, but I did a lot of research on the Lakeside communities in Ajijic and Chapala, and was not impressed.

#1 - I have heard that Ajijic-Chapala is becoming very elitist and snobby, and the locals are complaining because just like lower-income people here in America, they have been pushed out of their own cities by rising prices for housing. One friend on another forum said even some of the earlier settlers there are leaving, pushed out by cost of living and the entire atmosphere changing. I'm seeing that gentrification happening here where I live as well, which is one reason I want to leave. It's not the atmosphere I want to live in, even if I could afford it, which I can't.

#2 - I truly do love real working class people, because I am one. I don't want to be in an expat community with wealthy people I have nothing in common with. I want to immerse myself in the true Mexican culture, learn to speak the language fluently, learn to cook the food, live like a normal, everyday Mexican. I know some of you would hate living like that, but it's what I want. I'm not moving there because I can "live like a queen" on less money with maids and gardeners and going out to eat 5 times a week. I want to pretty much have my same lifestyle as here but cheaper, so I can afford to enjoy myself a bit more and don't have to worry so much about money.

So Ajijic/Chapala is not my thing. I'm sure it's great for a lot of people, but not for me. I'm a very simple person, not highly educated, and want to live around people who won't look down on me. I get enough of that here. 

Besides, who wants to live on a lake you can't even swim in because it's so polluted? That's pure insanity to me! I'd rather walk a mile to a nice, clean beach than just sit in an overpriced condo and gaze out over a lake full of sewage. Not my idea of a happy retirement, but each to his own.


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## citlali

You have a pretty warped idea about life in Mexico, you may want to visit before you decide to move, you are making way too many assumptions according to what you are familiar with which does not work here. 

The lake is large and affects the climate, it is cooler during hot weather and warmer in the winter because of the lake so as far as I am concern at my age , I could not care less if I can go and swim in it. There is lots of fish and wild life that are, I guess used to contamination and are doing fine.
The climate in Mexico changes with the altitude not with north south east or west..

The great climate for me is around 5 000 feet higher gets too cold and lower too hot.. but to each its own. I also live at 7000 feet and it gets pretty cold and wet at that altitude. So before dreaming of any place think of the altitude, the lower the hotter. At sea level you just as well stay in Florida.

At the beach the people who live on the water are the people with money , the locals without much money live more inland. You could look at the Yucatan, Merida ia a wonderful town if you can take the climate or pick a little town around some larger beach town. You are already adjusted to the climate and if you want to live like" the poor Mexicans" you can get an apartment without A/C for pretty cheap.


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## AlanMexicali

Most houses in working class areas in most of Mexico and I know many families living in these areas and visit them sometimes are very very noisy. If you can tollerate noise pollution all day and all night and skip naps then go for it. My friends complain about and I see it often loud speakers on trucks selling things like propane driving down their street constantly blasting the sound. Garbage trucks clanging cow bells, lots of barking dogs, kids blasting car stereo on the street, parties with very loud music until 4AM. etc. and if they could would move to a better area.


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## ojosazules11

AlanMexicali said:


> Most houses in working class areas in most of Mexico and I know many families living in these areas and visit them sometimes are very very noisy. If you can tollerate noise pollution all day and all night and skip naps then go for it. My friends complain about and I see it often loud speakers on trucks selling things like propane driving down their street constantly blasting the sound. Garbage trucks clanging cow bells, lots of barking dogs, kids blasting car stereo on the street, parties with very loud music until 4AM. etc. and if they could would move to a better area.


A question, Alan. Are the friends who complain about all the above mostly located in cities? Because I’ve certainly seen what you’re describing in certain neighbourhoods in cities, but in our town there are many areas which are very mixed socioeconomically, including our _barrio_ and they don’t have more than average noise pollution (based on Mexican standards). Yeah, we do get the scrap metal truck with that recorded voice of a young woman offering to buy stoves, washers, microwaves, etc. which has become ubiquitous throughout Mexico. And the propane truck, the garbage truck 2x/week, sometimes a truck with fresh fruits and veggies (saving me a trip down into town), in the early evening the bread vendor with the “bread basket sombrero” on his head, rides his bike up the hill, calling out, “Paaaaaan”. Sunday mornings we may have a group of horses and riders go clip clopping by, their hooves echoing on the cobblestones. And of course, there are _cohetes_ for all sorts of celebrations. We used to have Rufina the burra braying at various hours of the day and night, but she moved down the road a ways, with our compadres. And Don Beto across the road has never met a dog in need that he doesn’t want to rescue, and generally he has anywhere from 10-15 dogs in his care. Once one starts barking, it sets all of them off. I really hardly notice them anymore, except when it’s in the middle of the night. Even then, it often won’t wake me up. 

Ok, ok, when I stop to think about it I guess it’s noisier in our neighbourhood than I initially thought. But honestly, it doesn’t bother me. I don’t think of it as noise pollution. To me it’s just “the sounds of Mexico”.

Post data: Most of the time in our neighbourhood it’s actually quite peaceful, and I love listening to the “paz de las montañas”, the wind in the trees, the buzzing of bees around my basil, the birdsong at dawn and dusk, and the church bells marking the hours.


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## ojosazules11

dichosalocura said:


> Ok, on my end, after I posted the video on this forum it is saying that it is unavailable, but it plays beautifully on Youtube, so just search for it, if it doesn't play for you. Maybe, we are not allowed to post youtube videos here. I dunno.


The video worked fine for me. It’s a great video, showing the changing topography as they drive south - and with a song I love.


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## citlali

no whistling banana and cream vendor? Yes for me they are the noise of Mexico.. ow banda music, that is another story..


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## maesonna

No problem if your dog barks, because everybody’s dog barks.


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## AlanMexicali

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MP_CeJ6OqLw

All in all Mexico has culture and people enjoy life most of the time when not working hard and taking care of loved ones. Noisy at times and in some places but music and dancing is in their blood, even La Banda has a place. This is more my style of Mexican music though.


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## lagoloo

I don't know where the information came from, but it's just not so about the lakeside towns. I've been here in Ajijic for a decade in a mixed expat/Mexican neighborhood. It's almost downtown, but not very noisy except during the big festivals. There is enough of a variety of people here that I don't need to have contact with any "snobs". Of course they exist, but who has to choose to hang out with them? There's plenty of other types.

I've no interest in swimming in the lake, but it's nice to look at, and a number of people enjoy kayaking on it and walking on the adjacent Malecon. It also helps to keep the temperature comfortable.

The altitude issue: Much as I have enjoyed my years here, my body has developed engine (heart) and transmission (lungs) problems to the point where I must move to the coast if I want to remain much longer on the planet. No one with breathing issues should move to this elevation.
In addition, anyone with even minor allergies will have problems during the blooming season when the beautiful yellow, lavender and pink trees are in their glory.

Mexico is a wonderful place to live, whether you're rich or not-so. It's just a matter of finding a good "fit". Also, I'd suggest that you'll get a better picture of what life is like in the various areas by following local web forums than some popular social media sources.


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## RVGRINGO

Mexico is really much more about "what life is like", than any other place I have lived or visited, and that includes more than 30 countries. I was also impressed with Turkey, when I lived there for a few years in the 1960s. There are many similarities.


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## xolo

It's not so much about where or at what altitude you live (but they are factors), it's more about finding a fit for you.


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## dichosalocura

DebInFl, what have you been reading and what videos have you been watching about the Lake Chapala area? First of all, I could care less if you come here to visit or not, but really, you have a messed up view of the area. When I say I could care less, it is because I am not a real estate agent or have any business in the area. But I do live here, and I love it here and hate seeing it maligned. But goodness gracias, you obviously have no clue about this area. Once upon a time there was a guy on this forum named Zorro, FOX, that had never lived here and hated the idea of expats coming to Lake Chapala, I never understood why he hated this area so much. There was also a quasi journalist that came here for two weeks, (he claimed he stayed in Guadalajara and not in Chapala) and he wrote a lot of negative ignorant stuff about our Chapala community and the lake. Something tells me that you have been following that crowd. Years ago when I first moved here, it was said that the expat community here was around 15,000 and with the additional winter snowbirds, it would get up to 20,000 give or take some. Now in the post-Trump years, I would guess that we are at around 20,000 expats, give or take some, and in the winter months it possibly could go up to close to 30,000 expats for this area. Thousands of people love this area because of the beautiful scenery, the gorgeous lake, the fantastic climate, and above all, the wonderful Mexican people that seem to except us and embrace us. That cannot be said so much about all the other cool expat communities around the world. Snobbish people? Sure if you move to Ajijic, the epicenter of gringolandia, in the fancy gated communities you may come across some snobs, but they will be the minority. With so many expats from all over the world, most people here are normal nice people. The Chapala area is a large area, extending all along the North shore of the lake, encompassing many different distinct villages. If you want to avoid gringos and snobs, you just stay away from the villages with the most rich gringos. I live in Chapala, and we have expats here, but you mostly just see hard working mexicans on the streets here. And the gringos that come here generally are not the rich variety. The lake is not a polluted cesspool like you may have been led to believe. On the weekends with the Guadalajaran tourists, there are plenty of people that swim in the lake, it looks and smells like any lake you would find in the USA, just it is shallow, and a bit murky, but it is teeming with wildlife and fish. Years ago when the lake was suffering from drought and it nearly dried up, it was extremely polluted, but now a days, with all the new water purification plants being built along the Lerma River, Lake Chapala is cleaner, fuller, and more beautiful than ever, it is the best it has been in many years. If you love gardening and want a wonderful climate, there are lots of small villages full of Mexicans all along the lake.


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## dichosalocura

If you are truly interested in the Lake Chapala area, you can watch the negative videos made by people that don't live here, or you can follow the videos of the many people that live here and love it here. A youtube vlogger that I recommend is JC Travel Stories, he has lived here for many years and tells it like it is. Check him out. He has several recent videos discussing the contamination of Lake Chapala and the crime in the area, among many other interesting topics. So, please check him out!


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## lagoloo

No matter how nice it is in the Lake Chapala area, our OP shouldn't move here if she has breathing problems in this kind of altitude. Health is a number one consideration in moving anywhere. 
Love the area or hate it isn't the issue. I love it. 

If she likes an "artist community", she might consider Melaque, on the Pacific coast, as well as the nearby towns. Someone donated a large sum of money to build an art center there, and there are a good number of artists in the area. Puerta Vallarta, several hours drive north of there, has many art galleries and an active arts community, but it is a much larger city with higher rents.


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## citlali

The OP is still in the dreaming stage, she may never come down. We all have ideas about what we would like our lives to be in another part of the world and we often not take into consideration that lif will be different from what we thought it would be or from what we can take.
The first sign she will not be able to take the altitude so adios to the noce climate anywhere in Mexico. she has to concentrate on areas at sea level and she wll find plenty of expats on the coast and in many area the tourist economy . 
There are many villages not far from larget cities on the coast where she can move to. and if she is used to Florida she may prefer the Yucatan Pennsula where the beaches are white and the sand is fine and where it is as flat as a pancake.. 
Her health should be the first thing to worry about. How will she pay for doctors is the second, the snobs , the gringos, the food etc has to come second in her case. There are many places where she can move to but Chapala/ Ajjic is ot one of them.Like it or not,

Lots of people dream of living in a foreign land where they are the only foregner but it is not as easy as it seems if you ar enot used to that kind of life A few years ago while I was in Chiapas a woman came to me and begged me to speak to her in English. She had been in an intensive class of Spanish and was going crazy because no one she knew spoke English and she need to express herself in a way she was used to after a while..The whole time she said we met twice a week just to talk..

I am planning to go for a few month in an area where even Spanish is not spoken and I know that after a while I wll go slighlty nuts too but it is a good way to learn a new language if that is what you are after.


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## lagoloo

One of the worst reasons to move to a foreign country from the U.S. is unhappiness with the current administration and the flavor it gives to living there. I'd suggest putting that idea aside until after the next election, at least. The segment of the population which is racist, misogynistic and in favor of "***********"has always been with us. Nothing has changed except that right now they can speak more freely...and they are! "P.C."is now subject to ridicule as never before. However, pendulums are inclined to swing both ways, eventually. It certainly has, in my lifetime.


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## Stevenjb

Be at peace with yourself before making any decision.

Added: this is where my current focus is at.


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## ojosazules11

citlali said:


> no whistling banana and cream vendor? Yes for me they are the noise of Mexico.. ow banda music, that is another story..


In our town, the shrill whistle in the evening signals the presence of the vendor selling hot _camotes_ (sweet potatoes) from his ambulatory cart. Although they don’t generally venture up the hill, I just hear them when we’re down in town.


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## Isla Verde

ojosazules11 said:


> In our town, the shrill whistle in the evening signals the presence of the vendor selling hot _camotes_ (sweet potatoes) from his ambulatory cart. Although they don’t generally venture up the hill, I just hear them when we’re down in town.


In my middle-class neighborhood in the heart of Mexico City, we also have the camote vendors selling their wares in the evening.


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## citlali

I guess further south they switch to bananas and cream..I had never heard that sound n Ajijic. and just about jumped out of my skin when I heard it go bu on the street late at night..


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

ojosazules11 said:


> I don't know the Guadalajara/Chapala area, in terms of trees or barrenness. But where we have our house, in Tepoztlan, Morelos (about 20 minutes from Cuernavaca, and 1 hr 20 minutes south of Mexico City) there are lots of trees and it is not at all barren. In fact our place, which is a small house on about 700 m2 of surrounding land on the outskirts of town at an altitude of 1900 m (6230 ft), is surrounded by trees, with lots of birdsong both at dawn and dusk. We're right on the edge of a forest, the Tepozteco National Park, which is a protected bioreserve. There are also lots of flowers, vines, exuberant bougainvillea spilling over stone walls. It truly is a region of eternal spring.
> 
> Wishing you the best of luck in your adventure of finding the place that will be "just right" for you.


Sounds so beautiful. Hey, I think your invitation to house-sit got lost in the mail. Please resend.


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## citlali

Yes but it is at 1900 feet.. too hgih for the OP and too cold for someone who lives in Thailand, maybe just right for me since I live between 1500 and 2100 meters


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## lagoloo

You meant 1900 meters, si?


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## citlali

yes 1900 meters.. feet would be great but I am afraid it is not to be..


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## DebInFL

Sorry, this is long. Thanks for all the information. I'm still studying. I do need to be at a lower elevation, but not necessarily on the coast, in fact, I would rather be a bit inland, where I can take a bus to the coast if I want, but otherwise, am away from the tourists and snowbirds. I've had enough of snowbirds to last me a lifetime. I'm not going to get into the Ajijic/Chapala controversy, because it's moot. 1. I can't afford to live there and 2. The elevation is too high, so that ends that.

My doctor says not over around 3,000 feet in altitude, so away from the coast, maybe in the foothills? Another online friend says I'll have better luck finding a small house with a yard in the inland areas, and if I get one unfurnished, I can get a hell of a deal, so we'll see. 

I'm coming down (definitely) next May and going first to Huatalco, but won't settle there, because it's way too hot all year long. I'll branch out from there and look for a place that will "do" for a few months, then continue my search for a place that feels like home. It may take me years to find it, but I'm relatively healthy and don't plan on dying anytime soon.

Oh, and to answer the comment about running away from the current administration, I'm not really. I was raised in the southern US, so I'm sort of used to the racism. I just don't hang around with racists. It's easy enough to avoid them. I really just want a better quality of life on the income I have. Yes, I could move into a tiny little studio somewhere in MX for $200 a month, but I wouldn't be happy. I'm living in 500 sf now, and feel really cramped. I'd like a small 2 BR somewhere with a small yard, and maybe that will be hard to find, but I've seen that other people have found them, so it's not impossible, right?

This isn't a dream. It's a necessity. I'm in a cheap area of what used to be a cheap city to live in, but rents are going up astronomically, and I can't keep working as hard as I have to to make a good life here. I don't want to move to someplace in the deep south, or a cold place up north to be able to afford a decent life. I'm adaptable, but I'm 66 and tired of struggling, never having anything left at the end of the month to enjoy myself. My son helps some, but I don't want him to have to -- not yet. I feel like I have a few good years left, so I want to be independent and enjoy them the way I want to.

Anyway, you guys are all so helpful and kind, and I know I'll have more questions over the next year before I come down to find my new home. If anyone has any suggestions for places slightly inland that are no higher in elevation than 3,000 ft, please just PM me and I'll put them on the list to look at. {{{{{hugs}}}}}


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## citlali

Tepic s at 934 meters, It has a few expats but not many, not too far from the coast .. You may want to look at that one.

Huatulco?? It is a resort town with cruise lines coming in and plenty of snowbirds, There are some towns when you go up in -land but unless you speak Spanish I would not recommend them to you as a landing point plus the area is on the isolated side to live there all year round. Nice place to visit but Huatulco is more expensive that other villages around there.. Why would you pick Huatulco with your wishes??They do not have much money live in one of the apartment in town ..a little a/C in the bedroom.. good luck on living nicely there. You are picking places for foreigners and it is what you tell us you do not want.

You are right if you stay away from the coast you stand a better chance of finding a little hose with some land and way cheaper and nicer than what you will fnd on the coast. The Oaxaca coast is very nce but I would not live there without a car to start with and n the areas I thik are nice , it is not cheap.


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## DebInFL

citlali, I've been watching the Retire In Mexico videos on YouTube, and you're wrong about the entire area being touristy. It has different sectors, and some are touristy, some are not. There are apts. there very cheap (studios for $150/mth) but like I said, it's just a jumping off point, and only because of the videos does it look like a nice place to start out. 

Most of the tourism is local, from what I hear, people from the interior & Mexico City coming to the beach, but not like the big resort towns. Yes, there is a cruise ship that comes there, but that's just at one beach. There are 36 beaches & coves, so they aren't all like that. 

You can most certainly live there without a car. There is a good bus system, and for local travel, ATVs are allowed on the roads. 

It's not a place I'd like to live forever, just a place to start.


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## DebInFL

Citlali, I just looked up Tepic, and it looks lovely! I'll do more research on it. Thanks for the recommendation.


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## mattoleriver

Colima, Colima is located at about the right elevation. I've not been there and I've heard only a little about it. A former coworker of mine lived there as a youth and he said it was the only place in Mexico that he had any interest in returning to. Maybe dwwhiteside will jump in here as the resident expert.


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## lagoloo

Colima is having some serious crime problems of late: it seems the cartels have taken over. It's just enough inland from the coast that it's also hot, and of course, there's the very nearby volcano to watch. Other than that.........

Wherever you find worth checking out, there's usually a local website where you can ask questions of the residents. You might find that more informative than the UTube videos. I'm checking out places on the coast myself due to my own health problems and some of the small towns lacking interest to the tourists have area websites which I'm finding very helpful. 

There are certain areas of your wish list that will make it very difficult to find the right place. For a non-****** intensive place which is also non-snowbirdy and non-touristy, you will need to be fluent in Spanish. You will also find that a car is almost essential.
The small town on the coast I'm looking at lacks certain facilities which will mean I'll need to get to the nearest place having them......twelve miles away. That place is, alas, very full of tourists and snowbirds. In other words, I don't think you'll be able to have everything on your list, and I'd start prioritizing if it were me. But here's wishing you the best of luck.


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## citlali

Any area under 1000 meter s hot at least part of the year .. Tepic s at 924 Colima more like 500 meter so Colina is hotter. The center is attractve and it is the capital.. Cartels are pretty much everywhere so unless the place is a blood bath , you cannot worry too much about the cartels. 
I think Xolo lived there so he or she can give more information.

As far as Huatualco I have never watch videos about it but I have stayed therein town, several times as we had friends there. Welive in Jalisco and CHiapas and stay there when we decide to go via Oaxaca, akthough lately we have been staying n Tehuantepec or Juchitan as it is closer and our friends from Huatulco have moved to Melaque .
Tell me there are no cruise lines, tell me how many full time foreigners live there. Last time I was there , prices for coca cola were quoted to me in dollars. I reminded them we were in Mexico and the peso prices came out.. but it is a resort town wth tourists like it or not. Yes ther are locals, I know several of them and stay with them , I bet ther are locals in Florida were you live too...
The coast is beautful, the various bays with the beaches are very nice and I like to have a car to get out of town as watng for a bus in the hot sun is not my idea of fun.

The country arount Colima and Tepic is beautiful, the volcanos are too close for my taste in Colima but they are sure beautiful and their flanks has some nice countryside. The area around Tepic is very nice as well and it is a little cooler..but just at the limit your doctor prescribed. Good luck in your search and start learnng Spanish if you do nt speak it.


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## lagoloo

Here's a way to get going in Spanish. Easy and either inexpensive or free, depending on choice.
https://www.duolingo.com/
There is another good one, but it's on CD's: Visual Link Spanish.

It's a start, since you can do it on your computer in your own time rather than taking classes.


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## citlali

Another point what is there to explore around Huatulco?? The Oaxaca Coast has many pueblos, but the climate is all the same or just about , hot all year round and you are pretty isolated..
Oaxaca the city is 4 or 5 hours from there and it is at the same altitude more or less than Guadaljara so that is out. There ae villages in the foothills, I speak fluent Spanish and I would not live there..
The Ithsmus is more to my liking but it is hot all year round as well although windy so sometimes a little more comfortable but again I would not live there , speaking Spanish or not.. I was in the hospital in Juchitan once when I hurt a foot and again I would not like to have something really serious there .. Unless you know the culture well and speak Spanish I would not recomment that area to live all year round to someone who has not lived in Mexico for a while.
It is one thing to spend a few months there another to live there without much money.


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## Isla Verde

mattoleriver said:


> Colima, Colima is located at about the right elevation. I've not been there and I've heard only a little about it. A former coworker of mine lived there as a youth and he said it was the only place in Mexico that he had any interest in returning to. Maybe dwwhiteside will jump in here as the resident expert.


I have never been to Colima, so I have no personal experiences to relate about living there. Might I suggest that your former coworker might want to return there because that's where his family is from, a very Mexican attititude, might I add!


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> I was in the hospital in Juchitan once when I hurt a foot and again I would not like to have something really serious there ..


Another thing to consider is the quality of the health services available in the place in Mexico you eventually settle in. If you become a temporary or permanent resident, you will eligible to sign up for the government health services, IMSS or Seguro Popular, but the quality varies greatly from place to place in the country.


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## chicois8

Isla Verde said:


> I have never been to Colima, so I have no personal experiences to relate about living there. Might I suggest that your former coworker might want to return there because that's where his family is from, a very Mexican attititude, might I add!



Regarding Colima- I don’t think I would like to live that close to an active volcano......


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## DebInFL

citlali said:


> Another point what is there to explore around Huatulco?? The Oaxaca Coast has many pueblos, but the climate is all the same or just about , hot all year round and you are pretty isolated..
> Oaxaca the city is 4 or 5 hours from there and it is at the same altitude more or less than Guadaljara so that is out. There ae villages in the foothills, I speak fluent Spanish and I would not live there..
> The Ithsmus is more to my liking but it is hot all year round as well although windy so sometimes a little more comfortable but again I would not live there , speaking Spanish or not.. I was in the hospital in Juchitan once when I hurt a foot and again I would not like to have something really serious there .. Unless you know the culture well and speak Spanish I would not recomment that area to live all year round to someone who has not lived in Mexico for a while.
> It is one thing to spend a few months there another to live there without much money.


Can you please stop being so negative in every post. It's really upsetting to me. I'm trying to be positive about leaving my country and moving to a strange place, and you are bringing me down. It's one thing to be honest, another to be cruel.


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## DebInFL

I studied Spanish for two years in HS, so I'm using DuoLingo to brush up and it's going well. I'm putting up little signs all over everything in my house with Spanish words & phrases, because I hear that's a great way to learn. I'm also talking to myself. Well, I do that anyway, but I'm saying things like "I am washing the dishes," "I'll make beans & rice for dinner tonight," or "My neighbors are total a*holes," all in Spanish. I may go mad doing it, but at least I'll get used to speaking the language and practice pronunciation. I'm having trouble learning to roll my 'r's, but I'll get the hang of it.

As for needing a car, it seems Mexicans do pretty well without cars, so I can too. I haven't had a car since 2009, and I only move to places with good public transportation, so I'm a survivor. I lost everything in the recession; car, house, savings -- everything. I've survived so far, and I can survive Mexico, I think. I once was forced to live in the ghetto for a year, and I actually liked the people there. They looked out for each other like the people in the wealthier neighborhoods didn't. I never felt unsafe.

I have no idea where I'll end up, but if I have to be in a hot place, so be it. If there is one thing I've learned about cities is that it's easy enough to avoid the parts you don't like and just stick to the places you do. I'm in a small city, and I've lived in three different parts. Most people in town don't like this area, because it's very commercial and has heavy traffic, but it's perfect for me without a car, because I'm walking distance to most stores and a short bus ride to most other places. Plus, it's quiet where I am. The noise is one thing I may have trouble getting used to in Mexico, but the ideas of vendors walking around yelling out to buy mangos and corn on the cob sounds sort of nice.

I did look at Tepic, and while it's an exciting city, I think I'd have to live on the outskirts, because the city center is just too insane for me. Still, it would have everything I need, and I'm sure there are less frenetic areas.

Thanks again.


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## TundraGreen

A comment on two points: noise and city centers.

I live almost exactly in the middle of Guadalajara. I am about 1 km from the Catedral which most would probably call the exact middle of the city. I live on a side street between two heavily traveled streets with bus routes. Out on the street it is quite noisy, but once I close my front door, I hear almost none of it. Visitors often comment on how surprisingly quiet it is inside. I live in an old house with thick adobe walls so that helps some but the windows are single pane and don't seal at all. Mostly it is just not noisy indoors. Except for the sirens (there are have four or so hospitals within a few blocks) nothing much can be heard inside. I had a friend in San Diego who lived a kilometer or so away from a freeway and the noise in her house was much more annoying than where I live now. I don't know about the city center of Tepic, although I have passed through Tepic often, but a city center is not always frenetic. It all depends on the details of the neighborhood and street.


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## citlali

yes that is so true especially of the old houses, once you enter it is peace and quiet from the street. The houses were built to escape from the street it seemsOnce you enter you are in your private area. In Chiapas the old houses often were built without any windowa on the street . Later on people remodelled them and put a few windows and then the noise comes in but really only in the rooms on the street with windows, the rooms on the patio are really quiet, I love that type of construction.

I was in Guadalajara centro today and it was plenty frenetic on the street and hot but as you say enter some houses and it is quiet.. amazing.


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## lagoloo

I live in a very old house, too. The adobe walls do a great job of cutting down the noise, but it also helps if the house is set back from the street, with a wall on the street.

Some people coming from NOB (north of the border) hate the idea of walled houses with bars on the windows, but it's good to remember that this is not to keep you walled in, but to keep the unwanted OUT.

I think the idea of labeling everything in Spanish is great!


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## citlali

Funny when I came to the States I hated the open yards and the windows without shutters, it all depends on what you are used to. I love having a private garden or patio closed to the world. it is like being in a cocoon..


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## surabi

DebInFL said:


> Can you please stop being so negative in every post. It's really upsetting to me. I'm trying to be positive about leaving my country and moving to a strange place, and you are bringing me down. It's one thing to be honest, another to be cruel.


Deb- I haven't seen anything even remotely cruel in Citlali's responses here- I think you are not understanding where she is coming from. I don't know her personally, but as far as I have been able to gather by her posts on this, and many other threads, she is extremely knowledgeable about many parts of Mexico, speaks fluent Spanish, as well as some native languages and is also quite straightforward. I think she is originally European- they don't have the same concern with couching everything in "nice"language that Americans have. She has been giving you valuable information. Do you want to embark on this new chapter of your life wearing rose-colored glasses, or armed with a lot of practical info?
She is giving far more realistic information than what you may see on videos designed for those who want to retire in Mexico, henceforth being known as "expats" (I hate that term, myself)
Being honest and realistic is not the same thing as being negative, even if if it's something you'd rather not hear. 

As for Huatulco, I haven't been anywhere near there for about 30 years- when I was there, the locals told me people were being kicked off their ancestral lands so that the developers could turn it into a vacation destination.


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## lagoloo

Citlali is native French and speaks many languages. She's even learned the language of some native people in the Chiapas area. She is also a true realist, and what she posts is nothin' but the truth. It may be disillusioning, but it's worth listening to as good information.
I moved to Mexico full time 15 years ago. It's nothing like I expected it to be: in some ways, it's better and in some, very challenging. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else now.


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## citlali

Yes Huatulco like Cancun were made by the government and locals sold too cheap and moved out of their ejidos or the beach part of it and resent seeing the land that was worth nothing sell for a fortune in their eyes..
The same thing is happening in Tulum and other places all over the coast. On the Guerrero coast you can still find all kinds of villages that did not sell out to the developpers but that does not make them nice places to live in.. If you want to live like the locals and be part of the community I would think you can be accepted but very few people want to change their life that much or spend the time it takes to understand the rules.

I am not recommendng that anyone move to Guerrero but there are lots of places on the coast that are not touristy unfortunately in many of these areas people lack amenities the foreigners like. So on the coast , it is back to square one, move to a place that has snowbirds and tourists. An yes I maintain that Puerto Econdido is full of tourists, full of Italians wanting to surf, full of post hippy types and "cool" people wanting to live the good life, the whole coast is that way.. try Mazunte or Zipolite and tell me about it.. If you do not like tourists in Florida , see how much you will lke the European and Mexican touirsts down there.


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## surabi

Deb- here's another reality for you- you indicate that you don't want to live in a busy city center, that you'd prefer to live on the outskirts. Yet you have said you don't want to have to have a vehicle. And you seem to think that most Mexicans don't have vehicles, which isn't true unless they live somewhere there is convenient public transportation. If you live on the "outskirts", you will likely need transportation, maybe a moto or an ATV if you don't want a car. I live on the outskirts of Sayulita- it's a 20 minute walk to town. No way I could do that lugging groceries, laundry, containers of drinking water, etc. It's not like there's a bus stop outside my house.


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## citlali

are there moto taxis or colectivos there?


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## surabi

citlali said:


> are there moto taxis or colectivos there?


No, no moto taxis and no colectivos. The taxistas have the place sewn up. They won't allow Ubers here either. I saw 6 taxis surround and intimidate an Uber driver one day. And the taxis charge 100 pesos for the 5 minute drive from the centro to my house.


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## citlali

are there moto taxis or colectivos there?


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