# News pertaining to safety



## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

I just received this from a Michoacan forum and thought that I should put this on our site.


From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: Security Message For U.S. Citizens - Incident Near Tres Marias
Importance: High

At approximately 8 a.m. August 24, two U.S. government employees traveling
south of Mexico City in an armored embassy vehicle were attacked by gunfire
on a local road in the vicinity of Tres Marias, Morelos. The Government of
Mexico has acknowledged that elements of the Federal Police fired on the
embassy vehicle and an investigation is ongoing.

American citizens in this area should maintain a heightened sense of alert
while the Mexican government investigation into this incident continues.
Americans in this area should also monitor local news and information to
stay informed about situations that could affect their security. 

The U.S. Embassy is located in Mexico City at Paseo de la Reforma 305,
Colonia Cuauhtemoc, telephone from the United States: 011-52-55-5080-2000;
telephone within Mexico City: 5080-2000; telephone long distance within
Mexico 01-55-5080-2000. You may also contact the Embassy by e-mail at:
[email protected]. The Embassy's internet address is
Embajada de Estados Unidos en Mexico. 

Area consular agencies include:
Acapulco: Hotel Emporio, Costera Miguel Aleman 121 – Suite 14;
telephone (011)(52)(744)481-0100 or (011)(52)(744)484-0300. 
Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo: Hotel Fontan, Blvd. Ixtapa; telephone
(011)(52)(755)553-2100. 
Oaxaca: Macedonio Alcala No. 407, Interior 20; telephone
(011)(52)(951)514-3054 or (011)(52)(951) 516-2853. 
San Miguel de Allende: Centro Comercial La Luciernaga, Libramiento Manuel
Zavala (Pepe KBZON), telephone (011)(52)(415) 152-2357. 

U.S. citizens in other areas of Mexico should seek the assistance of the
U.S. Consulates or Consular agencies located throughout the country. A
directory of Consulates and Consular Agencies can be found on the Embassy
website Embajada de Estados Unidos en Mexico.

Posted by Jim Pierce
A warden for the US embassy in Morelia
Please note: this is not the Tres Marias near Morelia

__._,_.___

.

__,_._,___


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Not blaming the victims but just curious. 

Why does the embassy put employees in black SUVs? Would any expats in Mexico drive a black SUV or black oversize pickup? I don't have a vehicle but everything I read in the news suggests to me that it would be a good idea to choose another color.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> Not blaming the victims but just curious.
> 
> Why does the embassy put employees in black SUVs? Would any expats in Mexico drive a black SUV or black oversize pickup? I don't have a vehicle but everything I read in the news suggests to me that it would be a good idea to choose another color.


 The whole thing stinks. First reports from reporters was the 2 Americans were DEA, now no one is saying WHO they work for in the USA. The SUV is traveling on a dirt road in the mountains where known criminal activity happens. Driven by a Mexican Naval Officer in what is described as a US embassy SUV. That to me seems a bit strange but maybe they needed a driver and that was all they could find... Now it seems everyone is pretty much on the same page, Mexico and the USA, where it was all a mistake, friendly fire, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, blah, blah, blah.
What they were carrying, who they were meeting and what they were doing will never be known. +


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Strange things happen that you aren't supposed to know about. There will be more obfuscation in hopes that you'll all forget about it.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

Well they were in a strange sort of area for the U.S.Gov. to be in. And we seem to have forgotten to look for the person or explain the reason behind the 39 killings - lots of talk but no results. I guess the question is - does anyone really care - US. or Mexico?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The employees of the U.S. Embassy were in a vehicle clearly identified as having diplomatic privilege and right of passage. Published reports say, and Mexican Naval officials have confirmed, that the officials traveling in the vehicle were on their way to a Mexican Naval installation in the area at the invitation of the Mexican Navy. The vehicle was identified by federal police assigned to the Mexican Attorney General. An elite group of specially recruited officers, many trained in or by the U.S. Multiple vehicles chased the diplomatic SUV and attacked the reportedly unarmed personnel with assault rifles with the intent of not just disabling the vehicle, but killing the vehicles occupants. This, IMO, was an intentional attack authorized by the Attorney General. The Mexican NavyMarines have been the most effective in combatting terrorists in Mexico and there are times the Navy and President bypass other military organizations, federal police and the Attorney General to the chagrin and anger of those bypassed organizations. An unprovoked and most serious attack and a possible sign of a power struggle within the government as the nation prepares for its new President. And don"t rule out the possibility that the terrorists had infiltrated the Attorney Generals office and this attack was the work of the terrorists. A slim possibility but given the weakness of the federal government and the relative strength of the various terrorist groups ... Not an impossibility.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Longford, I've enjoyed your attempt at a humorous, fictive account of this event. I like the way you describe diplomatic plates as being ". . . clearly identified as having diplomatic privilege and right of passage. . . ." The part that rolled me over, laughing on the the floor was the "IMO." Although it would have been better if you said "IMHO."


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

Longford said:


> The employees of the U.S. Embassy were in a vehicle clearly identified as having diplomatic privilege and right of passage. Published reports say, and Mexican Naval officials have confirmed, that the officials traveling in the vehicle were on their way to a Mexican Naval installation in the area at the invitation of the Mexican Navy. The vehicle was identified by federal police assigned to the Mexican Attorney General. An elite group of specially recruited officers, many trained in or by the U.S. Multiple vehicles chased the diplomatic SUV and attacked the reportedly unarmed personnel with assault rifles with the intent of not just disabling the vehicle, but killing the vehicles occupants. This, IMO, was an intentional attack authorized by the Attorney General. The Mexican NavyMarines have been the most effective in combatting terrorists in Mexico and there are times the Navy and President bypass other military organizations, federal police and the Attorney General to the chagrin and anger of those bypassed organizations. An unprovoked and most serious attack and a possible sign of a power struggle within the government as the nation prepares for its new President. And don"t rule out the possibility that the terrorists had infiltrated the Attorney Generals office and this attack was the work of the terrorists. A slim possibility but given the weakness of the federal government and the relative strength of the various terrorist groups ... Not an impossibility.


 I was glad that, at one point, you wrote that this was your opinion. Seems the USA, Mexico and all the news organizations seem to think far different than you. And that is a good thing IMO.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Terrorists set 22 highway blockades in Jalisco and several more in Colima today, causing havoc and uncertainty in the areas. Some partial blockages on highways, some total. 

El Universal - Los Estados - Fueron 22 bloqueos en Jalisco, confirma SSP


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> Terrorists set 22 highway blockades in Jalisco and several more in Colima today, causing havoc and uncertainty in the areas. Some partial blockages on highways, some total.
> 
> El Universal - Los Estados - Fueron 22 bloqueos en Jalisco, confirma SSP


Do you have a source for that information? Just wondering?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

surfrider said:


> Do you have a source for that information? Just wondering?


I did provide a link to one story about this. Just click on it and you will see. The Mexican media is full of reports. Just access those newspaper/tv news sites. I don't know if the activities have been reported in the USA or Canadian media as of yet.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

United States Consulate General Guadalajara

PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TO
AS MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS AS POSSIBLE

Emergency Message for U.S. Citizens:
Blockades in Guadalajara and State of Jalisco
Date: August 25, 2012
BEGIN TEXT.

The U.S. Consulate General in Guadalajara has received information about blockades in several areas of Guadalajara, including the Periferico at Tutelar and Periferico at Lopez Mateos, and near the airport. There are reports of blockades in other areas of the state, including along the highway between the airport and Chapala. 

If you encounter a blockade, you are advised to divert from the route and drive away from it. The Consulate recommends that all American citizens shelter in place and be vigilant to news reports regarding the situation in the state of Jalisco.
- - - - - - - 
The U.S. Consulate General in Guadalajara is located at 175 Progreso Street, Col. Americana, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. The U.S. Consulate General in Guadalajara’s telephone number is 011 52 33 3268 2100; the fax number is 011 52 33 3825 1951. For after-hours emergencies, please call 011 52 33 3268 2145.

The U.S. Consular Agency in Puerto Vallarta is located at Paseo de los Cocoteros #85; Sur Paradise Plaza, Interior Local L-7, Nuevo Vallarta, Nayarit, C.P. 63732. The U.S. Consular Agency in Puerto Vallarta’s telephone numbers are 011 52 322 222 0069 & 011 52 322 223 3301; the fax number is 011 52 322 223 0074. For after-hours emergencies, please call 011 52 33 3268 2145.

END OF TEXT.

U.S. Consulate General Guadalajara
Home | Consulate General of the United States Guadalajara, Mexico
The Consulate office hours are Monday through Friday
from 08:00 a.m. to 04:30 p.m. (except for Mexican and U.S. holidays).
This email is UNCLASSIFIED


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> United States Consulate General Guadalajara
> 
> PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TO
> AS MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS AS POSSIBLE
> ...


Were any of the reports of blockades between the airport and Lake Chapala ever substantiated?


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*Concerned*



Detailman said:


> Were any of the reports of blockades between the airport and Lake Chapala ever substantiated?


My question exactly. I need to leave Chapala area at 5:00 am Thursday for a 7:30 am flight out of GDL! Where is a good source of info??? I will be driving a rental car.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> United States Consulate General Guadalajara
> 
> PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TO
> AS MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS AS POSSIBLE
> ...


TG: I've tried to dial the consulate, but I get a "lo sentimos" msg after I push a button. How the heck do you dial the number from Ajijic? my area code is 376 xxx xxxx. Thanks. FHB


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> TG: I've tried to dial the consulate, but I get a "lo sentimos" msg after I push a button. How the heck do you dial the number from Ajijic? my area code is 376 xxx xxxx. Thanks. FHB


can you just think about going a little later on in time like maybe next week/ DO YOU HAVE TO GO? Be very careful you are important to this world.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

surfrider said:


> can you just think about going a little later on in time like maybe next week/ DO YOU HAVE TO GO? Be very careful you are important to this world.


Unfortunately, no. I've got things to do at home and can't change some of the appointments. Thanks for your concern, but I kind of think that the police will need to keep this main artery open. Yes, I am concerned, but I think the odds are my favor.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

TundraGreen said:


> United States Consulate General Guadalajara
> 
> PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TO
> AS MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS AS POSSIBLE
> ...


(bold emphasis is mine.)
I'm confused. The sentence in bold scares me, and i'm in North Carolina!
Of course Mexico is different, but i doubt the blockade personnel would ignore those who run the other way.

I guess if traffic back-up allows one to do it at a distance it would be ok, but what distance leads to safety, and what distance invites pursuit?

Just who is erecting the blockades? If the message includes it, i missed it.
(It is accredited to terrorists in another post, but why won't the consulate confirm or deny this instead of pretending it's not at issue?

I'm also guessing the shooting of a US embassy vehicle is having ripple effects.
But i'm also thinking there is more going on behind the scenes.

And what does "shelter in place" mean, if you are driving?
Find a cantina?

Whatever,
to those in close proximity, be safe if you can.


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## grotton (Apr 20, 2012)

Just arrived in GDL. Our taxi from airport to Zapopan was uneventful. Our driver advised there were no more problems and the disturbance was related to some arrests made near the boarder.


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## DHHawkeye (Aug 16, 2012)

For what it's worth, my wife and I traveled by taxi from Ajijic to the Guadalajara airport on Sunday the 26th at noon without mishap. there were no signs of any danger, roadblocks, etc. Was actually pleasant.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

DHHawkeye said:


> danger, roadblocks, etc. Was actually pleasant.


If the comment was offered as humor, fine. Maybe. If it was meant seriously, then I'll offer the observation that for people involved in the incidents it wasn't so "pleasant." Many were fearful. Here's an online report from one person:
/SNIP/


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

If you at all believe the Zetas "cross" strategy reviewed in Borderland Beat, then things could get much worse in GDL before they get better. Net is that Zacatecas is "hub" of the cross and Zetas being confronted there by consortium of cartels that will probably lose. Next major step is GDL and Sinaloa cartel will be forced into the fray to not be isolated.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Longford said:


> If the comment was offered as humor, fine. Maybe. If it was meant seriously, then I'll offer the observation that for people involved in the incidents it wasn't so "pleasant." Many were fearful. Here's an online report from one person:


as per forum rules, could you supply a link to where the report came from, please?


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> If you at all believe the Zetas "cross" strategy reviewed in Borderland Beat, then things could get much worse in GDL before they get better. Net is that Zacatecas is "hub" of the cross and Zetas being confronted there by consortium of cartels that will probably lose. Next major step is GDL and Sinaloa cartel will be forced into the fray to not be isolated.


I agree. GDL may heat up quite a bit in the next few months before Pena is fully in office. I have not read much (that I believe anyway) of the new presidents strategy in these issues, but one thing is for sure, GDL is going to see some action.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> as per forum rules, could you supply a link to where the report came from, please?


Sorry, here's the reference link:

/SNIP/

http://www.chapala.com/wwwboard/webboard.html


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Well, isn't that a catch-22. Forum rules require posting a link to the origin of the quote but yet those same forum rules don't allow the link because it's to a competing forum.

I guess we have to simply take Longford's word as to the veracity of the quote.


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

Longford said:


> If the comment was offered as humor, fine. Maybe. If it was meant seriously, then I'll offer the observation that for people involved in the incidents it wasn't so "pleasant." Many were fearful. Here's an online report from one person:
> /SNIP/


I think he meant it as a continuation of his previous post, saying there were no signs of any danger, roadblocks, etc and not saying that those things are pleasant...hence the quoting:


> > Originally Posted by DHHawkeye
> > For what it's worth, my wife and I traveled by taxi from Ajijic to the Guadalajara airport on Sunday the 26th at noon without mishap. *there were no signs of any
> > *
> 
> ...


Has either the US or Mexico tried to explain why their vehicle was attacked? I'm surprised the US isn't publicly demanding more answers from the Mexican gov't.

What is the situation like in GDL right now, as in has anything changed? The consular warnings have a "the boy who cried wolf" effect on me now, after all of the hyped up travel warnings they've put out over the years. But I'm interested to hear from people living there on the current condition - if there are a lot more military, less traffic, more stores closed at night, etc.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

kazslo said:


> I
> Has either the US or Mexico tried to explain why their vehicle was attacked? I'm surprised the US isn't publicly demanding more answers from the Mexican gov't.
> 
> , etc.


My feelings are that the US can demand anything they want BUT this is Mexico. They are not required to answer those demands. 
The investigation is proceeding as Mexico sees fit. Mexico is an Independent country. Two spooks get shot at in the mountains is too bad but still part of the game the DEA, ATF and others have been playing in Mexico. 
Somehow, although the US is the world´s largest exporter of arms AND the world´s largest importer of drugs, it is always some other country´s fault / problem. That dog won´t hunt anymore, anywhere.


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

tepetapan said:


> My feelings are that the US can demand anything they want BUT this is Mexico. They are not required to answer those demands.
> The investigation is proceeding as Mexico sees fit. Mexico is an Independent country. Two spooks get shot at in the mountains is too bad but still part of the game the DEA, ATF and others have been playing in Mexico.
> Somehow, although the US is the world´s largest exporter of arms AND the world´s largest importer of drugs, it is always some other country´s fault / problem. That dog won´t hunt anymore, anywhere.


I wasn't saying that Mexico should answer to any US demands or try to appease them in any way, just that I find it really odd that a gov't member was shot at supposedly by police forces, and everyone is really hush-hush. I mean, neither side has even tried to start to explain the _why_ question. At least humor us and say it was a random attack or that they weren't police but were cartel members. Give me something of a theory of why this occured. The US is yelling "Danger! Danger!", but refuses to give any details on the circumstances that led to the event. We, the citizens of the US who live in Mexico, I think deserve an explanation from our gov't (although I doubt one will be given).


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Some events from 50 years ago are still coming to light and you might be surprised at the cover stories that existed at the time. Now, nobody seems interested in the truth of the matter. You weren't supposed to know then & now it doesn't matter; except to a few historians, etc. Those of us who were involved are soon to die off and history will be rewritten for the convenience of whoever is in charge in the future. That's the way it is, always has been and always will be. Sound familiar?


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## grotton (Apr 20, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> Some events from 50 years ago are still coming to light and you might be surprised at the cover stories that existed at the time. Now, nobody seems interested in the truth of the matter. You weren't supposed to know then & now it doesn't matter; except to a few historians, etc. Those of us who were involved are soon to die off and history will be rewritten for the convenience of whoever is in charge in the future. That's the way it is, always has been and always will be. Sound familiar?


Here's my two cents, for what it is worth. I agree with RVGRINGO. With the caveat that this incident involving two US citizens (official status unknown) and a Mexican Officer (again, official status unknown), was likely an accident. I can only guess but it appears a joint activity involving Mexican and US officials was interrupted by other Mexican officials (Federales) who may not have been aware of what was going on. It is not uncommon for one level of government law enforcement to not communicate it's activities to lower or other levels of law enforcement. And accidents occur.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

grotton said:


> It is not uncommon for one level of government law enforcement to not communicate it's activities to lower or other levels of law enforcement. And accidents occur.


BINGO! Especially in Mexico. Word around the campfire is the Americans were firearms instructors going to a military installation in that area. Not sure what to believe but the facts are hard to find.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

tepetapan said:


> My feelings are that the US can demand anything they want BUT this is Mexico. They are not required to answer those demands.
> The investigation is proceeding as Mexico sees fit. Mexico is an Independent country. Two spooks get shot at in the mountains is too bad but still part of the game the DEA, ATF and others have been playing in Mexico.
> Somehow, although the US is the world´s largest exporter of arms AND the world´s largest importer of drugs, it is always some other country´s fault / problem. That dog won´t hunt anymore, anywhere.


I suppose being away from the USA for so long creates a disconnect with reality. I read that in some of the expat-in-Mexico comments on these forums. 

We don't know much about the attack on the clearly-marked diplomatic vehicle by persons said to be from an elite federal police contingent working under the supervision and direction of the Attorney General of Mexico. 

Whenever a government kills or attempts to kill persons guaranteed safe passage it's a troubling (to the victim nation) event and creates a diplomatic "incident." I think the USA has handled the matter well, calmly to this point. I don't doubt there are some heated discussions in private. 

The Mexican government forces are infiltrated by the terrorist and other criminal organizations. The Mexican Navy, an officer from which accompanied the persons in the diplomatic vehicle en route to a Naval facility in the state of Morelos and whom may also have been shot (not certain about this), has been one shining light in the Calderon government's battle with the terrorist organizations. It's been very effective. 

But, the Navy has made enemies within Mexico for going it alone and for some pretty spectacular successes ... without including other forces. 

The USA has military advisors in Mexico. They've been there in larger numbers in recent years. A surprisingly large percentage of Mexicans (responding to a respected poll) favor US military forces on the ground in Mexico, joining the fight against the terrorists. It's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to think the persons deliberately attacked with the assault weapons by federal police in multiple vehicles were just such military advisors. Maybe DEA. NSA. Who knows. 

The attackers may also be rogue elements of a compromised federal police force. Not difficult to imagine, either. Working for the Zetas, or one of the other terrorist/criminal organizations. 

We might one day learn the truth. But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA. The government is corrupt throughout the levels.

I agree that the impitus for the terrorists and criminal organizations is the unbelieveable amounts of profit earned by transporting/selling the narcotics to drug addicts in the USA. Though, Mexicans, too, are consumers of the drugs. The NRA in the USA bares responsibility as well, for pressuring the Congress and state legislators to back-off on reasonable controls on assault weapons.

Maybe I'll dust-off my crystal ball ... and tell you all what really happened the other day.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

grotton said:


> Here's my two cents, for what it is worth. I agree with RVGRINGO. With the caveat that this incident involving two US citizens (official status unknown) and a Mexican Officer (again, official status unknown), was likely an accident. I can only guess but it appears a joint activity involving Mexican and US officials was interrupted by other Mexican officials (Federales) who may not have been aware of what was going on. It is not uncommon for one level of government law enforcement to not communicate it's activities to lower or other levels of law enforcement. And accidents occur.


 My feelings once again. These were not two typical US Embassy personal, they were DEA or what ever. No one yet seems to be able to say what their duties were here in Mexico. And the DEA has signed off on them, know nothing see nothing. 
Reading the US news, this story has all but disappeared. Mexico is trying to follow the story, the guys who were suppose to have taken part are rooted for 40 days. Where is the US media? That is where the media blackout is coming from, not Mexico.
Heck, the US will not even give these guy´s reason for being in Mexico besides who they work for. 
I figure it was a couple hot shot DEA or atf of whatever caught with their pants down at their ankles. Nothing more embarrassing than the teacher tripping on his untied shoes, if you get the drift.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

La Jornada has reported that the two people from the US Embassy are indeed CIA agents. Apparently they were on their way to a training camp that belongs to the Mexican Navy to continue with a series of shooting lessons they were giving to the sailors at the camp when they were attacked.

La Jornada en Internet: De la CIA, los 2 agentes baleados en Tres Marías


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Longford said:


> I suppose being away from the USA for so long creates a disconnect with reality. I read that in some of the expat-in-Mexico comments on these forums.
> 
> We don't know much about the attack on the clearly-marked diplomatic vehicle by persons said to be from an elite federal police contingent working under the supervision and direction of the Attorney General of Mexico.
> 
> ...


Well I have not been away from the US for a long time, and I find it almost funny that you refer to a corrupt Mexican Gov't and, in my opinion, insinuate that the US Gov't is not???? The US Gov't is so corrupt, rich boys deciding the world's fate. The drug trade is good for the US good ol boys network, lots of people too high to pay attention. Filled with criminals, hiding behind laws they pass. 
I have no idea what happened, but I would not call one country/gov't worse than the other. I agree with the comment "that dog won't hunt anymore"


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

terrybahena said:


> Well I have not been away from the US for a long time, and I find it almost funny that you refer to a corrupt Mexican Gov't and, in my opinion, insinuate that the US Gov't is not???? The US Gov't is so corrupt, rich boys deciding the world's fate. The drug trade is good for the US good ol boys network, lots of people too high to pay attention. Filled with criminals, hiding behind laws they pass.
> I have no idea what happened, but I would not call one country/gov't worse than the other. I agree with the comment "that dog won't hunt anymore"


I found this to be an interesting statement as well.

"But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA"- Longford

She must hang out with the wrong Mexicans?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

terrybahena said:


> Well I have not been away from the US for a long time, and I find it almost funny that you refer to a corrupt Mexican Gov't and, in my opinion, insinuate that the US Gov't is not???? The US Gov't is so corrupt, rich boys deciding the world's fate. The drug trade is good for the US good ol boys network, lots of people too high to pay attention. Filled with criminals, hiding behind laws they pass.
> I have no idea what happened, but I would not call one country/gov't worse than the other. I agree with the comment "that dog won't hunt anymore"


After you've been in Mexico a bit longer, I'll bet you'll come to the conclusion that governemnt corruption is a much more serious problem in Mexico than it will ever be in the US.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*Guadalajara Reporter*

Just to muddy the waters a bit more on this shooting, the front page of the August 25th Reporter (a paper of great veracity [?]) had a long story entitled "Leaked Emails Say US Soldiers are Operating in Mexico". You can probably read this at their website. I don't have the experience yet with this newspaper to have an opinion on its credibility. So take it for what it's worth.

Parenthetically, there is not much discussion here in Ajijic about the incident, it will be interesting to go home and read about it.


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## DHHawkeye (Aug 16, 2012)

My apologies for my last comment. what I meant to say that wi did not see any roadblocks or encounter any issues. It had rained the night before, the sunwas out so The drive to Guadalajara was pleasant.

Once again I apologize and will be more carefully in the future.


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## DHHawkeye (Aug 16, 2012)

Longford said:


> If the comment was offered as humor, fine. Maybe. If it was meant seriously, then I'll offer the observation that for people involved in the incidents it wasn't so "pleasant." Many were fearful. Here's an online report from one person:
> /SNIP/


This was a broken link and I have posted an apology on the next page. It was not intended as a joke and I meant to say that the drive to Guadalajara was quite pleasant. We love the area.

I will be more careful in the future.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

DHHawkeye said:


> This was a broken link and I have posted an apology on the next page. It was not intended as a joke and I meant to say that the drive to Guadalajara was quite pleasant. We love the area.
> 
> I will be more careful in the future.


It appears to me that all of the comments on DHH's "pleasant" comment were the result of the fact that DHH inadvertently split his post into two. So, it wasn't clear that he only meant HIS drive was pleasant, as he says above.

Note: I merged his original split post into one, so, the comments on it might be confusing now.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

conorkilleen said:


> I found this to be an interesting statement as well.
> 
> "But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA"- Longford
> 
> She must hang out with the wrong Mexicans?


If you have an opinion, don't be afraid to share it. Opinions trump jokes and/or insincere remarks any day of the week. The woman has been in Mexico all of about 3 months now. She speaks beginner's Spanish and is working on her comprehension levels. She lives in a relatively remote part of Mexico. And her first-hand life experience in Mexico and interactions with the culture, society and government is at the 'baby step' phase. Nice as the woman seems I think she lacks the knowledge of Mexico sufficient to offer the comments she did. But at least she offered a comment and I respect that.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I've gotten a bit confused. Who made the comment "But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA"? I would add that after many years in Mexico, I've found that in situations where telling the truth might create uncomfortable feelings, many Mexicans will fudge the truth a little.


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I've gotten a bit confused. Who made the comment "But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA"? I would add that after many years in Mexico, I've found that in situations where telling the truth might create uncomfortable feelings, many Mexicans will fudge the truth a little.



I did NOT make that comment. I also never said I knew what happened in that incident here in Mexico, however I did comment with my opinion of the US gov't of which I DO know, and it's one of the reason I choose not to live there. 

And by the way I do think that comment is very inappropriate ("But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA")


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

terrybahena said:


> I did NOT make that comment. I also never said I knew what happened in that incident here in Mexico, however I did comment with my opinion of the US gov't of which I DO know, and it's one of the reason I choose not to live there.
> 
> And by the way I do think that comment is very inappropriate ("But not telling the truth is a fiber of the Mexican DNA")


From what I know about you from your posts here, I didn't think that you had made that comment either. It doesn't sound like you at all! Whoever made it must not be enjoying his or her time in Mexico.


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> From what I know about you from your posts here, I didn't think that you had made that comment either. It doesn't sound like you at all! Whoever made it must not be enjoying his or her time in Mexico.



thnx


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

terrybahena said:


> thnx


¡No hay de qué!


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

I agree RVGringo. The reality is that America has never been the America we thought it was, we all purchased a packaged concept from T.V. Happy Days programming. Not indicating that the US is not a wonderful place but lets be honest -we have done some very bad things as a nation and we the people just did not see, we did not look, we purchased the package right after we took by duress the Islands of Hawaii and said thank you.
The Mexican government is not honest - is the American government ? The difference is with the US there are cover stories with the Mexican it seems like they just say SO? My thoughts not to say they are correct, just my thoughts


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> From what I know about you from your posts here, I didn't think that you had made that comment either. It doesn't sound like you at all! Whoever made it must not be enjoying his or her time in Mexico.


The comment was not made by anyone living in Mexico. It was made from the shelter of Chicago.

For someone to say that its in a Mexicans DNA not to tell the truth is a little harsh and somewhat racist IMHO. Not someone that I would take seriously anymore, anyway.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

conorkilleen said:


> For someone to say that its in a Mexicans DNA not to tell the truth is a little harsh and somewhat racist IMHO.


I have to agree.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

surfrider said:


> I agree RVGringo. The reality is that America has never been the America we thought it was, we all purchased a packaged concept from T.V. Happy Days programming. Not indicating that the US is not a wonderful place but lets be honest -we have done some very bad things as a nation and we the people just did not see, we did not look, we purchased the package right after we took by duress the Islands of Hawaii and said thank you.
> The Mexican government is not honest - is the American government ? The difference is with the US there are cover stories with the Mexican it seems like they just say SO? My thoughts not to say they are correct, just my thoughts


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Longford, I appreciate the Youtube link. I had heard about this trailer for the new Sorkin docudrama the Newsroom on HBO but I don't get HBO. Evidently Jeff Daniels plays Will McAvoy in the series about corporate media today.
Don't expect you will like but this where I heard about the series as well as some critique.


During last Sunday’s episode, McEvoy/Sorkin — already infamous for the charming anti-American rant featured in the pre-run trailers for “The Newsroom” — throws caution to the wind and unleashes a stream of venom that read like it had been lifted straight out of the minutes for the next Moveon.org meeting:
Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government. They can call themselves the Tea Party. They can call themselves conservatives. And they can even call themselves Republicans, though Republicans certainly shouldn’t. But we should call them what they are. The American Taliban.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Longford said:


> Why America Is The Greatest Country In The World - HBO Series "The Newsroom" - YouTube


Longford, I would kiss you, but I suspect you'd blush.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

conklinwh said:


> Longford, I appreciate the Youtube link. I had heard about this trailer for the new Sorkin docudrama the Newsroom on HBO but I don't get HBO. Evidently Jeff Daniels plays Will McAvoy in the series about corporate media today.
> Don't expect you will like but this where I heard about the series as well as some critique.
> 
> 
> ...


At first, the series was difficult for me to get my arms around. It felt clumsy. But, as with many other things in life ... it took me some time to become comfortable with the show's format. McEvoy is a Republican. Somewhat conservative, in the traditional definition of that term for Republicans. He's troubled by the wrong turn he thinks the party has taken. The show has been picked-up for a new, full season. I look forward to it because I believe it presents the news and the struggles news organizations face, internally and externally ... honestly. When the clip from last weekend's season finale is uploaded to You Tube I'll try to rember to post a link to it.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Here's a video clip of the portion of the season finale of HBO's "The Newsroom" conklinwh made reference to:


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Longford said:


> At first, the series was difficult for me to get my arms around. It felt clumsy. But, as with many other things in life ... it took me some time to become comfortable with the show's format. McEvoy is a Republican. Somewhat conservative, in the traditional definition of that term for Republicans. He's troubled by the wrong turn he thinks the party has taken. The show has been picked-up for a new, full season. I look forward to it because I believe it presents the news and the struggles news organizations face, internally and externally ... honestly. When the clip from last weekend's season finale is uploaded to You Tube I'll try to rember to post a link to it.


I would say that he is Sorkin's idea of a republican as seems to be his alter ego. After West Wing, expect he thinks that a good alternative to get his message across. Since I can't see it, what I've heard is that he has a lot of self loathing. Will be interesting to see how a very liberal Democrat positions a conservative Republican.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Longford said:


> At first, the series was difficult for me to get my arms around. It felt clumsy. But, as with many other things in life ... it took me some time to become comfortable with the show's format. McEvoy is a Republican. Somewhat conservative, in the traditional definition of that term for Republicans. He's troubled by the wrong turn he thinks the party has taken. The show has been picked-up for a new, full season. I look forward to it because I believe it presents the news and the struggles news organizations face, internally and externally ... honestly. When the clip from last weekend's season finale is uploaded to You Tube I'll try to rember to post a link to it.


I would say that he is Sorkin's idea of a republican as seems to be his alter ego. After West Wing, expect he thinks that a good alternative to get his message across. Since I can't see it, what I've heard is that he has a lot of self loathing. Will be interesting to see how a very liberal Democrat positions a conservative Republican. I enjoyed a lot of West Wing although uncomfortably at times so I can see how you might have similar feelings.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> Here's a video clip of the portion of the season finale of HBO's "The Newsroom" conklinwh made reference to:
> 
> The Newsroom season 1 finale - On voter fraud and blasting the Tea Party - YouTube


After watching this clip, all I can say is "Wow!", and I wish I could get HBO in Mexico. Thanks for posting this, Longford.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

conklinwh said:


> I would say that he is Sorkin's idea of a republican as seems to be his alter ego. After West Wing, expect he thinks that a good alternative to get his message across. Since I can't see it, what I've heard is that he has a lot of self loathing. . .


What does this purported self-loathing have to do with anything?


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> What does this purported self-loathing have to do with anything?


What I've read on entertainment sites is that the lead character is weighed down by some ten years of just reading the news and this has created the self loathing that is a key basis to understanding the character and his perspective.


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

conklinwh said:


> ...Since I can't see it, what I've heard is that he has a lot of self loathing. Will be interesting to see how a very liberal Democrat positions a conservative Republican.


??..... 

I don't necessarily disagree with the views expressed, but your post was incomprehensible.

WashDC/SMA


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

I must admit i have not watched the shows on HBO, except in bits and pieces,
so i know little about it.

But everything i see makes me miss Kieth Olberman more than ever.

Yes, he's what most people would call leftist, but i just think he's a practical man with vision.

Don't we all hate dishonesty, except our own, tho we may hate that too.?
Don't we all deeply want to know the truth, even if we hide from it's pain?
Don't we all wish we could base our decisions on reliable and accurate information?

And since there is no free flow of reliable accurate information about the incident in question, we are still mushrooms.
(Kept in the dark and fed droppings.)

But we can learn from that too. 
Anyone or a government that keeps hiding things has something to hide.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

conklinwh said:


> What I've read on entertainment sites is that the lead character is weighed down by some ten years of just reading the news and this has created the self loathing that is a key basis to understanding the character and his perspective.


Oh, I see. I thought you were referring to Aaron Sorkin suffering from self-loathing.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

conorkilleen said:


> The comment was not made by anyone living in Mexico. It was made from the shelter of Chicago.
> 
> For someone to say that its in a Mexicans DNA not to tell the truth is a little harsh and somewhat racist IMHO. Not someone that I would take seriously anymore, anyway.


what the ----you talking about. I did not say that the Mexicans do not tell the truth READ the statement - the Mexican GOVERNMENT DA could be any government you name it - it was a generic reference.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

edgeee said:


> But everything i see makes me miss Kieth Olberman more than ever. Yes, he's what most people would call leftist, but i just think he's a practical man with vision.


I, too, miss Keith Olberman. His intelligence. His passion. Warts and all, he was unsurpassed as an observer of our society. Right most of the time, I might add. :clap2:


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

Longford said:


> I, too, miss Keith Olberman. His intelligence. His passion. Warts and all, he was unsurpassed as an observer of our society. Right most of the time, I might add. :clap2:


I agree completely. I wish we had a hundred like him, but could they find work?

And, for myself, he has a baseball presence. If you were a regular viewer, you know the story of his mother and Chuck Knoblauch; coincidence to the extreme.

As for Kieth, his insight was sometimes hard for me to follow.
The man can compute so much data all at once that it amazes me.

I don't agree with everything he said either, but i can tell you this:
If he was on assignment in Mexico, chasing the shooting mystery, anything he discovered would be revealed.

A bit like Harry Bosch would be if he was trying to solve it.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

One of my favorite Olbermann commentaries:






:clap2:


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

safety in Mexico topic
is there still reason for concern in driving places outside of Guadalajara?


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

surfrider said:


> safety in Mexico topic
> is there still reason for concern in driving places outside of Guadalajara?


Probably less-so now. I read in El Universal today that the police, state and municipal, and the Federales have started a full-court press in and around Guadalajara. I'm not there, so I can't verify it, but maybe TG can/will.

WashDC/SMA


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

*...a leftist, but...*



edgeee said:


> .......Kieth Olberman .........Yes, he's what most people would call leftist, but..........


A leftist, but. 

What a quintessentially American statement. I have to laugh when I hear some US political pundit describe someone as a "liberal", which is apparently only one rung above child molester. Considering that the Liberal Party has run Canada for much of the last century, and the New Democratic Party, ( centre/left social democrats), are the current Official Opposition, we here in the Great White North aren't much afraid of terms like "leftist" or "liberal" - even though our own right-wing conservatives still do their best to portrait anything to the left of Genghis Khan as "scary" and certainly not to be trusted.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

HolyMole said:


> A leftist, but.
> 
> What a quintessentially American statement. I have to laugh when I hear some US political pundit describe someone as a "liberal", which is apparently only one rung above child molester. Considering that the Liberal Party has run Canada for much of the last century, and the New Democratic Party, ( centre/left social democrats), are the current Official Opposition, we here in the Great White North aren't much afraid of terms like "leftist" or "liberal" - even though our own right-wing conservatives still do their best to portrait anything to the left of Genghis Khan as "scary" and certainly not to be trusted.


That's why i don't like using such labels.
You and your country deserve our thanks for showing us what can be done.
By that i don't mean Canada has no faults, but the troubles at home in the USA are staggering and have been ignored too long.
Right now the only thing we are best at is being short-sighted.

And waste. We are real good at being wasteful.
And arrogance. We still want a high opinion of ourselves.
And gluttony. While poor kids go hungry, fat cats demand more cream.
And pride. We feel like we deserve it because our ancestors earned it.

I have to stop now. I'm a mite nauseated.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

This specific topic is to pertain to expats safety in Mexico. This is not a political forum or topic. Instead this has to do with is it safe for me to drive by myself to Texas in my own car? This has to do with I have an air plain out of Guad. are the roads closed because of road blocks.?
Please refrain from going into too many other topics outside of safety issues.
Someone wanting to know about safety issues would have to read reply after reply pertaining to their personal political views and that is just not right/


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

surfrider said:


> This specific topic is to pertain to expats safety in Mexico. This is not a political forum or topic. Instead this has to do with is it safe for me to drive by myself to Texas in my own car? This has to do with I have an air plain out of Guad. are the roads closed because of road blocks.?
> Please refrain from going into too many other topics outside of safety issues.
> Someone wanting to know about safety issues would have to read reply after reply pertaining to their personal political views and that is just not right/


Just drove from Lakeside to GDL early Thursday morning. There is nothing to report, the road is clear, there are no burned out buses. There is an increased police presence (as opposed to April) in Chapala/Ajijic/Jocotepec, but most of their work is with traffic accidents.

As to the people I observed in August, no one, Mexican or ******, seemed to have their daily routines disturbed in any significant way.

PS: There is a political thread on the Forum in "The Junkyard" known as Democalypse 2012" let's move the politics over there. I figured it was better to dump it all in one place, rather than to get off track on specific threads. Please read and adhere to the civility rules, however.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

surfrider said:


> This specific topic is to pertain to expats safety in Mexico. This is not a political forum or topic. Instead this has to do with is it safe for me to drive by myself to Texas in my own car? This has to do with I have an air plain out of Guad. are the roads closed because of road blocks.?
> Please refrain from going into too many other topics outside of safety issues.
> Someone wanting to know about safety issues would have to read reply after reply pertaining to their personal political views and that is just not right/


You are correct sir, and i apologize for my own ramblings.
If anyone disagrees, come to the junkyard so we can discuss it.


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