# Permanent Residency Application



## PV Bob (Apr 27, 2017)

Wondering if anyone has experience with this? I am still working but will retire when we are ready to make the full time move in the coming six months. My partner is retired. I noticed the following on yucatanexpatriateservices while getting forms, statements etc together and doing cross-checking: 

*It is worth mentioning that only pensioners can apply for the Permanent Resident VISA without having the Temporary Resident VISA first.*

I am not a pensioner. We have the funds to cover all requirements and have purchased a home in MX. I doubt gov't officials will trust me when I say I'm going to retire when we make the move, plus I won't receive a pension for approx. one year after making the move.

Is applying for permanent residency impossible under my circumstances? I was hoping to avoid going through the temp process and then the permanent process once there.

Appreciate any insights or similar experiences. Thanks in advance.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PV Bob said:


> Wondering if anyone has experience with this? I am still working but will retire when we are ready to make the full time move in the coming six months. My partner is retired. I noticed the following on yucatanexpatriateservices while getting forms, statements etc together and doing cross-checking:
> 
> *It is worth mentioning that only pensioners can apply for the Permanent Resident VISA without having the Temporary Resident VISA first.*
> 
> ...


My understanding, and certainly the way it was a few years ago, is that anyone can apply for either Temporary or Permanent visas. You just have to meet different qualifying income or assets depending. I went to a Permanent visa without waiting 4 years on a Temporary. It doesn't matter whether you are retired or what the source of income is. You just have to show regular deposits or an adequate balance.


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## PV Bob (Apr 27, 2017)

Thanks for the advice - that was also my impression and I had never heard of that perm resident condition before. Think I will just try move forward and try give the permanent visa a shot.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

PV Bob said:


> *It is worth mentioning that only pensioners can apply for the Permanent Resident VISA without having the Temporary Resident VISA first.*


There must be more context to this blurb. AFAIK, there are only higher income requirements, there is no requirement to have a _Residencia Temporal_ first. I have heard talk of some Mexican consulates requiring this, but at the consulate I use, there is no such requirement listed. You should check with your consulate! I don't see it as a requirement on the _gobernación _website, either:

https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/visa-de-residencia-permanente/SRE236


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I think here is one linguistic issue:

The term "pensioner" is a translation of the Spanish term "pensionista" which means essentially the same thing as "jubilado" or "retirado". In the US if someone says "pensioner", we think it means you have a pension, like a retired government employee or teacher or something like that.

In Spanish, or at least in Mexico, it just means that you are living off of some non-salary means, which could be an actual company or government pension, or investment returns, or income off of property rentals, or whatever.

I think that as long as PV Bob and his partner meet the financial requirements, they will be just fine going straight to RP as "pensionistas".


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Note, though what xolo mentioned above. I’ve heard accounts, too, from applicants at certain consulates being told they could not go direct to permanent even though they met the financial qualifications. Some consulates seem to make their own rules about this.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

maesonna said:


> Note, though what xolo mentioned above. I’ve heard accounts, too, from applicants at certain consulates being told they could not go direct to permanent even though they met the financial qualifications. Some consulates seem to make their own rules about this.


It seems like it was easier when you only had to deal with INM offices in Mexico for visa applications. Adding the step of the consulates, has complicated it greatly.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

maesonna said:


> Note, though what xolo mentioned above. I’ve heard accounts, too, from applicants at certain consulates being told they could not go direct to permanent even though they met the financial qualifications. Some consulates seem to make their own rules about this.


This, exactly.

The consular official in Seattle decided that I didn't sound certain enough that I would remain in mexico forever, and put me on a temporary resident visa. The person in charge there has since changed, so this is no recommendation against the Seattle office if that is closest to you. 

But there is an advantage in doing the RT for a year - you can get a TIP to bring in your current vehicle if you want to drive some of your stuff to your destination. With an RP you can't bring in a US vehicle at all, and you can't bring in a rental truck in either case, so if you go straight to RP you are constrained to taking only what you can check on a plane, or else hiring a moving company and paying big bucks for an international move.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> This, exactly.
> 
> The consular official in Seattle decided that I didn't sound certain enough that I would remain in mexico forever, and put me on a temporary resident visa. The person in charge there has since changed, so this is no recommendation against the Seattle office if that is closest to you.
> 
> But there is an advantage in doing the RT for a year - you can get a TIP to bring in your current vehicle if you want to drive some of your stuff to your destination. With an RP you can't bring in a US vehicle at all, and you can't bring in a rental truck in either case, so if you go straight to RP you are constrained to taking only what you can check on a plane, or else hiring a moving company and paying big bucks for an international move.


Note, that you can do a rental in the opposite direction. A person with an RP can rent a truck in Mexico, drive to the US, load it and return. I know, because I did.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Hard to find anything to rent bigger than a 20 passenger van, though, which only has about the same volume as the smallest U-Haul.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

eastwind said:


> This, exactly.
> 
> The consular official in Seattle decided that I didn't sound certain enough that I would remain in mexico forever, and put me on a temporary resident visa. The person in charge there has since changed, so this is no recommendation against the Seattle office if that is closest to you.
> 
> But there is an advantage in doing the RT for a year - you can get a TIP to bring in your current vehicle if you want to drive some of your stuff to your destination. With an RP you can't bring in a US vehicle at all, and you can't bring in a rental truck in either case, so if you go straight to RP you are constrained to taking only what you can check on a plane, or else hiring a moving company and paying big bucks for an international move.


People with a pre-approved 6 month RP visa in their passport can drive a foreign plated vehicle for 30 days in Mexico when getting a 30 day "canje" FMM card at the border from INM when first entering Mexico. The 30 day TIP is for people to bring their stuff into Mexico and drop it off and then remove the vehicle from Mexico. If you don´t remove it in 30 days you can park it on private property then later get a "Safe Return" from ADUANA for the vehicle and then drive it out of Mexico legally. You will lose your "deposit" in this case.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

There is a problem though: The consular visa approval (Canje) is a single entry document. So, the car would have to be removed from Mexico by someone else during the 30 day Importada Temporal, unless the applicant reported to INM immediately and started the tramite, AND got INM to issue an exit/re-enter letter for the purpose of the owner to remove the car and return to Mexico. 
I suppose it could be done, but I would suggest making the move to Mexico, getting the visa process completed (maybe a couple of months), buying a Mexican plated car and then returning to the USA for whatever you want to bring down..... The stuff could be “staged“ in self-storage at a US border town. We did that, and it worked just fine, way back when we moved to Mexico as tourists; converting later, as was possible then, but not now.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> Hard to find anything to rent bigger than a 20 passenger van, though, which only has about the same volume as the smallest U-Haul.


Another option would be to hire a private individual with a truck, one who has a US visa. Drive up with him/her in the truck. Pick up your stuff and return. Hiring a truck and driver in Mexico can be as cheap or cheaper than renting a vehicle. I have some friends who did this. When they left Mexico, they hired a truck and driver to take them and their stuff to Tucson. They rode with him. If I recall correctly they only paid $1500 pesos for the trip. At that time $1500 pesos was worth about $150 dollars. They probably had to pay tolls and gas in addition.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is a hypothetical - Last week you received an RP pre-approval at the Mexican Consulate in say Miami. They didn't tell you that you could not simply drive your Florida plated vehicle into Mexico. Apparently today - at a minimum - you need to export the vehicle from the US. Is the US going to deny your export of the vehicle because you have an RP 'Visa' ? Does the US side of the border tell you that you need to export your vehicle ? Does the US even look at your Mexican paperwork ? When you get across the border - today - is Mexico not going to issue you a TIP - even for 30 days ? Does Mexico check to see if you have exported your US vehicle ? Anyone with first hand experience ?

Ok - it might be expensive - but is it possible ?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Horseshoe,
You have a very mixed up scenario described; which seems to combine situations of permanent importation (which is probably not possible) and temporary importation (which is possible with strict limitations). 
Please read posts #11 and #12 again.
Remember: INM, Aduana, and SRE do not coordinate, yet all are involved in this scenario and that is what creates the complications a la Catch-22. There are ways to handle it, but none are convenient.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

RVGRINGO said:


> Horseshoe,
> You have a very mixed up scenario described; which seems to combine situations of permanent importation (which is probably not possible) and temporary importation (which is possible with strict limitations).
> Please read posts #11 and #12 again.
> Remember: INM, Aduana, and SRE do not coordinate, yet all are involved in this scenario and that is what creates the complications a la Catch-22. There are ways to handle it, but none are convenient.


Thanks - but your response does not answer my questions. We went the less traveled route - and it worked for us - but I was wondering if TODAY others were able to permanently import their vehicles with an RP. I know, I know - that is not the party line. 

Just a few simple questions. Please re-read my post. 

Let's say you want to permanently export your vehicle - today. Does that process on the US side involve whether you are coming into Mexico on an RP or RT or FMM ? What sort of coordination is there between the two sides of the border ?

Although it might be 'incredibly' expensive - can a person - on day 1 - export their car from the US and import it into Mexico regardless of the level of their visa ?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If it can be done, a customs broker will be able to tell you if your vehicle is eligible, and if your status permits doing so. I don‘t know the answer to that last part; being a Residente Permanente and wanting to permanently import a vehicle.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

horseshoe846 said:


> Thanks - but your response does not answer my questions. We went the less traveled route - and it worked for us - but I was wondering if TODAY others were able to permanently import their vehicles with an RP. I know, I know - that is not the party line.
> 
> Just a few simple questions. Please re-read my post.
> 
> ...


Regarding exporting, it is only required if you are taking a vehicle out of the US permanently, which would be the case if you are importing it into Mexico. The requirements on the US side seem to be that you file an AES 72 form at least 72 hours before crossing the border with the vehicle, then present the documentation at the border when you leave. I didn't see any mention of a fee. But filing that form may not be trivial. The system seems to be set up to handle people that are in the export business, not a random individual wanting to take a single vehicle out of the country. There are lots of companies set up to help file the form and they definitely charge a fee. I saw $35 mentioned on one page. This part of it may be included if you hire a broker to help import it into Mexico.


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## corbford (Aug 14, 2017)

*Question about Seattle Consular*

Eastwind,

When you were starting the process, I am assuming you were living in Seattle or still do? I live in Seattle and looking at what options we are going to follow. My husband is a Mexican citizen and while we are going through the Citizenship/Naturalization process for him, I anticipate he will maintain his Mexican citizenship as well and have dual. Anyway, my question for you is did you call and make an appointment with the Consulate in Seattle or did you go in? If you made an appointment, how far out was it when you made it and were they helpful in explaining any processes and requirements?


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I've written up my RT process experience in detail in other threads, look for one titled "getting my RT" that I started. They were very nice and helpful, yet still I ended up having to visit the consulate 3 or 4 times and ended up changing my plan. And the people that were involved are all different now, so your mileage my vary. 

Because one of you is Mexican, they may be more willing to believe you intend to permanently relocate to mexico and give you less of a hard time for the RP than they gave me. Perhaps I just didn't sound certain enough when they talked to me. 

Get your passports in order and make sure they have 2 years of validity left on them for starters. Two years is conservative, you don't want them to be expiring during your first year in Mexico, in case they force you onto a one year RT, then refuse even that because your passport expires.
Collect a year's worth of financial statements that show assets - quarterly investment account statements and monthly bank statements. Get these all on official paper. If you've been on e-statements, get the institutions to print back statements and mail them to you. 

They aren't going to want to stamp the visas into your passports until about a month before you plan to travel, and they'll want to hear from you firm plans on how you're traveling and when you'll enter the country. This is because the visas are only valid for entry for six months from when they're issued, and for some reason they really want them used sooner than that.

The process is basically this: you visit them any number of times you want or need to get to the point where you have all your paperwork in order. This can happen any time. Then they tell you to come back for real about six weeks ahead of when you want to travel, but without an appointment. At that time they actually take the paperwork and your passports and make an appointment for one or two weeks later to finish up. Then you go back for your appointment and they take photos, finger prints, and make the visa stamp in your passport.


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## corbford (Aug 14, 2017)

Thank you for your help and reply, I will look up your previous post.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

corbford said:


> Eastwind,
> 
> When you were starting the process, I am assuming you were living in Seattle or still do? I live in Seattle and looking at what options we are going to follow. My husband is a Mexican citizen and while we are going through the Citizenship/Naturalization process for him, I anticipate he will maintain his Mexican citizenship as well and have dual. Anyway, my question for you is did you call and make an appointment with the Consulate in Seattle or did you go in? If you made an appointment, how far out was it when you made it and were they helpful in explaining any processes and requirements?


Because you are married to a Mexican National it is not necessary to even go to the Mexican Consulate in Seattle. You can get a 180 day FMM tourist card when entering Mexico and apply at the local INM [Immigration] office and do not need to show any financial solvency. They will give you a 1, 2, 3, or 4 year Residente Temporal visa/card. This is by far the easiest way to proceed. IMO Take advantage of being married to a Mexican National instead of going to a Mexican Consulate and having to do it like a person with no other way to get a RT or RP card wth financial solvency proof needed. The Mexican Consulate route you will then only get a 1 year RT card [if you can´t/don´t need to get a RP card] and have to renew again. This route costs more and is a lot more work and worry for nothing.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

xolo said:


> There must be more context to this blurb. AFAIK, there are only higher income requirements, there is no requirement to have a _Residencia Temporal_ first. I have heard talk of some Mexican consulates requiring this, but at the consulate I use, there is no such requirement listed. You should check with your consulate!


I think that perhaps I was wrong there. According to this webpage you need to be retired or have a family link and two years on a _residencia temporal_ to get a _residencia permanente_.

https://www.gob.mx/sre/acciones-y-programas/visa-de-residencia-permanente


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

xolo said:


> I think that perhaps I was wrong there. According to this webpage you need to be retired or have a family link and two years on a _residencia temporal_ to get a _residencia permanente_.
> 
> https://www.gob.mx/sre/acciones-y-programas/visa-de-residencia-permanente


The web page says if you are staying more than 180 days and less than 4 years you need a Residencial Temporal. If you are staying longer than 4 years you need a Residencial Permanente. And for the RP you need to be a retiree or a pensioner. That is to say, you must have a source of income. They don't care where it comes from.

What surprises me is that it doesn't mention the amount of income one must have.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

xolo said:


> I think that perhaps I was wrong there. According to this webpage you need to be retired or have a family link and two years on a _residencia temporal_ to get a _residencia permanente_.
> 
> https://www.gob.mx/sre/acciones-y-programas/visa-de-residencia-permanente


I just went directly to permanente via familial link without having two years of temporal. My case was due to having a Mexican child, not a spouse (although I do), which makes a difference.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

This really is the first time I ever read that an RP need be retired. Neither my wife nor I have ever earned a peso in compensation through employment. We came in day 1 with RP status. But that was nearly 5 years ago. At the consulate I said - we are moving to Mexico forever and have no plans of returning to the US - which is the truth. We had no problems with the financial hurdles. But I always assumed that - provided I informed INM - I could pursue employment in Mexico if I wanted it.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

horseshoe846 said:


> This really is the first time I ever read that an RP need be retired. Neither my wife nor I have ever earned a peso in compensation through employment. We came in day 1 with RP status. But that was nearly 5 years ago. At the consulate I said - we are moving to Mexico forever and have no plans of returning to the US - which is the truth. We had no problems with the financial hurdles. But I always assumed that - provided I informed INM - I could pursue employment in Mexico if I wanted it.


If you are RP, you do have the right to work. 
My guess at INM's logic is that if one meets the financial hurdles, they won't have much interest in working here and taking a job away from a Mexican.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

circle110 said:


> If you are RP, you do have the right to work.
> My guess at INM's logic is that if one meets the financial hurdles, they won't have much interest in working here and taking a job away from a Mexican.


I know Mexico is not the backwards place that some people NOB imagine. But I thought perhaps Mexico could gain something from someone with 30 years industry experience. At one point I was even considering volunteering my services to help the cause. 

We are about to pursue Mexican citizenship - and if we complete that successfully we are considering starting up a small business here - and hopefully employ a few Mexicans. 

We have no interest in taking a job away from a Mexican.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

I have RP status, which I segued into after 9 years on a Temporary Lucrativo visa. Started an upholstery business under the Temporary, which has always consisted of me, myself and I- no employees. At no point did INM ever mention anything about taking work away from a Mexican.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

And, BTW, I know plenty of expats who have legally started businesses in Mexico, with or without Mexican employees. It seems to me the majority of comments I have read on these forums over the years regarding INM possibly denying work permission because you might be "taking work away from a Mexican" come from retired expats who have never actually had any need or interest to work here and have never actually applied for such status.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

surabi said:


> I have RP status, which I segued into after 9 years on a Temporary Lucrativo visa. Started an upholstery business under the Temporary, which has always consisted of me, myself and I- no employees. At no point did INM ever mention anything about taking work away from a Mexican.


I'm sure they didn't mention it, but in a way you certainly are. I have done the same thing.

I normally perform concerts of my own music and that makes my role in the event unique and I also employ almost 100% Mexican musicians in my ensembles when I play concerts here, but occasionally I do accept a paid 'jobbing' or 'casual' gig when invited by my musical compañeros and when I do that, I definitely am taking up a paying job that a Mexican musician could very well have done.

We foreigners with work permission don't have to be perfect angels, especially since we do have a perfectly legitimate right to work, but for my part I do try to steer clear of taking work away from local musicians and do my best to create situations where they can work more and for better pay. I don't need the pesos nearly as much as they do.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

surabi said:


> And, BTW, I know plenty of expats who have legally started businesses in Mexico, with or without Mexican employees. It seems to me the majority of comments I have read on these forums over the years regarding INM possibly denying work permission because you might be "taking work away from a Mexican" come from retired expats who have never actually had any need or interest to work here and have never actually applied for such status.


You may be right. For awhile I worked for the Mexican Government. One of the things I was doing was mentoring young Mexican scientists. I do not feel that I was taking a job away from anyone. I had an FM-3 visa and permission to work at the time. Shortly after I switched to an FM-2, then a Residencial Permanente. Five years after getting the FM-2, I applied for Mexican citizenship which is where I am now.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

surabi said:


> And, BTW, I know plenty of expats who have legally started businesses in Mexico, with or without Mexican employees. It seems to me the majority of comments I have read on these forums over the years regarding INM possibly denying work permission because you might be "taking work away from a Mexican" come from retired expats who have never actually had any need or interest to work here and have never actually applied for such status.


Well, you can count me as part of both that minority and the majority because I did and do have such status, yet I don't need to work in the economic sense. I got the work permission during my first stay in Mexico while I was RT so that I could work legally when invited to do so (mostly by government entities). Still, I have always tried to be conscious of not doing anything to hurt my Mexican musical brethren. Life as a professional musician here is tough enough just like anywhere in the world.

I work now for the pure joy of it. In many ways you could say I function as a mentor and a large part of the time I am being paid by the Mexican government since the majority of the venues where I perform are part of the cultural wing of the government.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

circle110 said:


> I'm sure they didn't mention it, but in a way you certainly are. I have done the same thing.
> 
> I normally perform concerts of my own music and that makes my role in the event unique and I also employ almost 100% Mexican musicians in my ensembles when I play concerts here, but occasionally I do accept a paid 'jobbing' or 'casual' gig when invited by my musical compañeros and when I do that, I definitely am taking up a paying job that a Mexican musician could very well have done.
> 
> We foreigners with work permission don't have to be perfect angels, especially since we do have a perfectly legitimate right to work, but for my part I do try to steer clear of taking work away from local musicians and do my best to create situations where they can work more and for better pay. I don't need the pesos nearly as much as they do.


No, actually I am not taking any work away from any Mexican. There are only one or two Mexican upholsterers in the nearby area and they are half an hour away. And they are always just as swamped with work as I am and sometimes turn people away because they are too busy. I do have a few clients who used to use one of them, but their complaints are that they would spend all day waiting for him to show up and then he didn't, nothing was ever ready when they were told it would be, and sometimes the quality was poor. 
Someone who offers high quality work, shows up at the arranged time, and works to deadlines is not taking work away from those who don't provide the same service. It's like comparing apples to oranges.


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## phh125 (Jan 23, 2017)

PV Bob said:


> Wondering if anyone has experience with this? I am still working but will retire when we are ready to make the full time move in the coming six months. My partner is retired. I noticed the following on yucatanexpatriateservices while getting forms, statements etc together and doing cross-checking:
> 
> *It is worth mentioning that only pensioners can apply for the Permanent Resident VISA without having the Temporary Resident VISA first.*
> 
> ...


We recently secured our permanent residency status. As long as you have sufficient funds to satisfy the government requirements and you intend to stay indefinitely, you can immediately apply for a permanent resident visa at a Mexican Consulate. We went through this process in New York in April and the Consulate was very helpful. Once we provided the application and supporting paperwork, we received our visa in a few days.

This is the first step in the process. Once you arrive in Mexico with your visa, you must apply within 30 days to IMN to receive your permanent resident card ("canje"). This is actually the more difficult step unless you speak fluent Spanish and even then you can wind up going back two or three times to IMN. We paid a service a very modest amount to take care of the paperwork. We now have our permanent resident cards.


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