# Building permits



## Robert Groom

Hello all,
I wonder if I could ask some advice.
I am thinking about buying a property in the Argolida area quite close to Ermioni.
The property is a newish build and is currently a shell, and requires making good.
The broker has advised of costs but it took me by surprise when she mentioned that we would have to apply for a building permit at a cost of €10,000.
I would of thought that a building permit was already in place as the property is half completed.
I would like to know if anyone can shed some light on this or at least point me in the right direction to seek clarification.
My last question is can anyone recommend a good lawyer in the Argolida region that can speak English.

Thanks in advance

Rob


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## Brisargr

Hi

I built my own house from scratch in Halkidiki, starting with the purchase of a piece of land.

Before I could start building I needed a building permit which gave plans for the house, together with a schedule of Eka stamps required (you pay the NI for the builiding labour).

I find it inconceivable that a shell was built without this, and would suggest you walk away from the deal.

I don't know the size ofbuilding, but mine was 250 square metres of 6500 sq m of land, and it was nothing like the price you have been quoted.

Get a lawyer before commiting to anything.

Best wishes and good luck

Brian


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## Robert Groom

Brisargr said:


> Hi
> 
> I built my own house from scratch in Halkidiki, starting with the purchase of a piece of land.
> 
> Before I could start building I needed a building permit which gave plans for the house, together with a schedule of Eka stamps required (you pay the NI for the builiding labour).
> 
> I find it inconceivable that a shell was built without this, and would suggest you walk away from the deal.
> 
> I don't know the size ofbuilding, but mine was 250 square metres of 6500 sq m of land, and it was nothing like the price you have been quoted.
> 
> Get a lawyer before commiting to anything.
> 
> Best wishes and good luck
> 
> Brian


Thanks for the advice Brian. I'm currently seeking recommendations for an English speaking lawyer in the area.

Rob


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## Brisargr

Hi Rob

You may have been told that in Greece you build 3 houses:

The first to learn the problems and pitfalls

The second to sale to cover the costs of your first mistake

The third to live in!

Any advise I can give having done it, dont hesitate to ask

Brian


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## Robert Groom

*Thanks*

Many thanks Brian,
I shall be sure to come back to you for some advice.
I'm currently waiting on some costs to come back for finishing the property, but before I even consider making an offer I will need to speak to a lawyer,

Rob


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## concertina

*buying a partly built house in greece*

My husband and I have now after 7 years just dropped yet more money for the the proceedings on the house we built,the last legal paper,after paying sometimes for the same thing twice.The shell of the house you speak of may have so many problems......firstly,when you get your permit to build,the licence,you must report back to the council on your progress,the time-scale is 4 years,if you do not...here comes the bad news....you must reapply for your licence......more money,so the shell that you see may have been left for too long in this crisis or it is a totally illegal building and never had a licence,if you buy it you are done for.Our mechanic got our licence for us but the poor man died soon after without telling us that we must report to the planning department on our progress so a new mechanic took over and all hell was let loose,we paid 3.000 for the first licence,then had to make a new one...another 3 and half,some things were deemed illegal on our house at the same time because the first mechanic went along with ...anything goes in greece,small things...it will be ok,like a few more metres than what the plan says.....enter Troika....GREECE NEEDS MONEY.....FINE THE DEVILS WHO HAVE SOME IRREGULARITIES ON THEIR LICENCES AND PLANS.And to tell you that the shell you have taken a shine to may be sitting on land ear-marked for a road,someone may have started to build on someone else land,the possibilities of you being DONE OVER are immeasurable and the shell and the plot will probably be out of the town or countryside plan which means they can bring a road through your garden later,they cannot knock you down though if you have a building licence.We were going to buy a piece of land once for building and my husband phoned the agent selling it to confirm our intention to buy and when all was agreed and they said...goodbye...the agent forgot to switch off his mobile and called another number on a land line,what he said was.......yes,yes,I know that piece of land has been seized by the council for a road...BUT...they will find out that when its all too late. and that was the land we were going to buy,lucky not to put phone down quickly.I have heard stories here about houses, land,you would almost faint in shock,lawyers can be dodgy,agents,council staff,planning departments.........so buyers beware...And it costs more to finish a house after the shell is up,we never stopped extracting from the bank,we really want to sell but Greece now has no property market.


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## concertina

*buying part built house*

And who told you 10.000,a mechanic or a land agent,thats insane,sounds like the ripping off has started,depending on how many metres,our 250 was 3 and half thousand.You cant be doing this on your own surely?


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## mickyg10

hi I have land with a static caravan on it. and would like to place a small container on the land do I need a permit for this


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## media2003

Hi everybody!
Now I am reading all topics here about building a house in Greece.I have notice the topics are made a few years ago.Please tell me,any changes in better side in these days?Or it is still hell?
Maybe forget forever the thought abouit build and concentrate on buying a property?Is somebody here who built house in these days?Thank you for any information.


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## concertina

media2003 said:


> Hi everybody!
> Now I am reading all topics here about building a house in Greece.I have notice the topics are made a few years ago.Please tell me,any changes in better side in these days?Or it is still hell?
> Maybe forget forever the thought abouit build and concentrate on buying a property?Is somebody here who built house in these days?Thank you for any information.


Hi,well,I built with my Greek husband,done over some years,it all depends what you want,if I was to build again I would build an Eco house,completely off grid,however you must remember this is earth quake country so got to go along with building regs,I like the Earth-ships and they say that earth quakes are no problem for this style,but Greece is very backward in these matters,there is a very alternative mechanikos on Aegina who designs alternative and there must be others.I now know of course that I could have saved a lot of money on things like internal render and plastering,I actually like the grey cement and natural stone is fairly cheap here.Land can be very cheap now,when buying an existing house there are so many things to be very careful of and its not advisable to ado this without someone around you who speaks Greek and knows the system and the SHARKS,houses are a great price now,good chance,so you have options,I would like to have built into a hillside,something really exciting,eco and different,depends how much energy you have.


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## concertina

I would like to also advise you that if you buy a house be sure that you buy a fairly new one because every time they have had a major earthquake here the regulations for building were made more stringent,the columns have to have more iron and be different in their structure,so you need to buy something built not more than ten years ago I think,thats my advise to anyone,they say the stone houses dont fall in an earthquake but where I built my house there were many old stone houses with big heavy ceramic roof tiles,most of them came down in the last big quake,the owners rebuilt without a new licence,behind the council and didnt put columns,now imagine an expat buys those houses,knows nothing,a new concrete single skin wall,down in the next quake,so buyers beware,that quake was about a mile or so out to sea near my house,but Im way up on the hill,it pushed up out from the sea and caused a small tsunami,leaving a marshy area now.


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## media2003

Hi Concertina!
Thank you very much for you advices.If I have understood correctly,it needs to get a new building licence every 4 years,if the building is not finished.Well,I was thinking,we have plenty time until our retirement and it is not rush to finish a house,if we will buy some unfinished build.Need to think again.
Concertina,please tell me,what part of a house is the most expensive when you start to build?Concrete foundation or house walls or something else?
I understand nothing in building process,but actually I want to find out as much as I can for a picture what need to do,where is start.There ia plenty info in internet how to build a house in Greece,but always is more interesting to listen to people who have done such job in reality.I have plenty questions.Thank you again.
Jelena.


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## concertina

Hi again,not advisable to leave your house more than 4 years,you will pay again for the licence..not cheap.If you leave your columns exposed to the weather you risk their deteriation,it is your foundations and columns which go up first with the floors.this is what will cost you the most money,and that depends on if your land is on a slope and if it is near the sea it will be constantly wet underneath and may need huge boulder stones put down in the foundations which your mechanic may not warn you about and will just say..money please..Try to finish your house in 3 and half years,now finished means closed round with windows and walls roof and never mind if you have toilet,bath,kitchen in,you go to the council and declare it finished,this is the bit where you sweat,they come and measure that you have stuck completely to the plan,all the measurements,your builder must never deviate from those ,dont try to make your garage into part of the house etc..they ok you then you can apply for your electricity or your photovoltic(not sure how one applies for that).For earthquakes its better to build a semi basement as we did,put the sleeping rooms down there and just one more floor upstairs.Check how many metres are allowed for building on your piece of land,perhaps it may allow 200 square metres and you only want to build 100,this gives you 100 left should you want to add on later or your builder messed up and you are 10 meters over on the build,you would have to relicence if he does and that may cost you 3.000 so you need to be on their backs all the time.Build small and finish in the 4 years is my advise to you.You will have double skin walls with very good insulation on the inner wall,we put our electrics on the floor to save cutting the brick walls to pieces which is what they do,our house has 19 tons of iron in it for the earthquakes.Where do you want to build in Greece or buy as we are selling our house,partly built houses will need a new licence,they may owe money and if they have been left exposed for some years then the columns will have deteriation and the concrete.Building regs in Greece are extremely strict so beware.


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## media2003

Hi Concertina!
Thank you for your answer.Actually you have answered on my next question which I wanted to ask you.If I will complete a box of a house (foundation,walls,roof,windows and front door) without internal jobs,it will be ok for greek bosses?ICan I start to do something inside a house when I want?One,two years later?
And another question.I am so sorry,Concertina,to bother you,but I found only you,who can give me some useful answers so far.I want to find out as much as I can and then to make right decision.
So,for example,I found a plot of land and bought it.Can I keep the land empty without starting a process of build or I will again have some limit of time from greek bosses?


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## concertina

media2003 said:


> Hi Concertina!
> Thank you for your answer.Actually you have answered on my next question which I wanted to ask you.If I will complete a box of a house (foundation,walls,roof,windows and front door) without internal jobs,it will be ok for greek bosses?ICan I start to do something inside a house when I want?One,two years later?
> And another question.I am so sorry,Concertina,to bother you,but I found only you,who can give me some useful answers so far.I want to find out as much as I can and then to make right decision.
> So,for example,I found a plot of land and bought it.Can I keep the land empty without starting a process of build or I will again have some limit of time from greek bosses?


Hi,you can get your house to the declare to planning dept stage,which is closed,windows,roof,walls all the way round,they are not interested for the inside plan,you can change where you want bathroom or kitchen etc as we did,they just want to come and measure that you have stuck to the licence plan with measurements,veranda size etc,distances from boundary,measurements of your shell,if you build right up to your border you cannot have windows over-looking another plot,no pipes hanging over into next plot,some metres must be left for you to have windows,and its better anyway to have access to your walls,you dont want to beg neighbors to get in their land to make any works.You can finish the inside when you please,you may want a compost wc later on.You can buy land and leave building for later,its only when they issue the licence that your clock begins to tick but remember that buying land is another minefield,it must be land for building and in the plan or they may put a road through it,but that is another long topic,all is possible here as long as people are sensible,the sunshine,emerald blue seas,green mountains are home to sharks,big ones and they will eat you if you look as if you dont have a clue,Im here should you have further questions,dont forget as well that the council estimate the amount of stamps you must pay for all the workmen,brick layer, plasterer,roofer,painter and even if you say we will paint,no way,you must still pay even if you do much of the work yourself,so budget for this,they gave us 10 years to pay some thousands off,we have still 2.000 to pay by 2018


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## media2003

Hi Concertina!
Tnank you for your info,we started to keep thought about buying a house,not build.We think,it will be easier for us.
I was looking at some web sites some houses for my curiousity.I noticed,of course it is only my opinion,in description of some houses is big size in square metres,but when you look at some pictures of a houses,it seems smaller.If a house has two storeys,it needs to plus square metres of 1st storey and square meters of 2nd storey together?I hope,you will understand my question.Sorry,English language is not my native.


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## concertina

media2003 said:


> Hi Concertina!
> Tnank you for your info,we started to keep thought about buying a house,not build.We think,it will be easier for us.
> I was looking at some web sites some houses for my curiousity.I noticed,of course it is only my opinion,in description of some houses is big size in square metres,but when you look at some pictures of a houses,it seems smaller.If a house has two storeys,it needs to plus square metres of 1st storey and square meters of 2nd storey together?I hope,you will understand my question.Sorry,English language is not my native.


Hi,the total square metres will be the living space over each floor,a semi basement will usually be called..apotheeki.. and is not living space on the licence unless that basement or semi basement is written into the licence and plan,be careful because some sellers will advertise their semi basement as part of the house square metres on the licence and it is usually a lie,an apotheeki cannot be divided up into rooms as if it were living space included in the licence,we did actually put a sink in the room and made a shower/toilet room which the inspectors passed but they dont like divisions down there seeming to be bedrooms.When buying your symvoliographo will inspect their papers very well,the licence, the plan and ownership titles.Some sellers will try to say that the semi basement is part of the house which is why you might think it looks smaller than the advertisement says,be careful.


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## lentas

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of buying a piece of land in Crete. My lawyer there is taking care of it. The land has no building permit, so an engineer was hired by the owner of the land to verify if it would be possible to build there. The engineer assured us that that land can indeed be built on (house of 180 m2), and he is going to state this in front of a notary. (the land is less than 4000m2, outside of the urban area, but it is buildable according to greek law since it was originally more than 4000m2 and split in two by a road built during dictatorship...my lawyer verified it)
But i am still a bit worried that i might have unpleasant surprises later. 
So i wanted to ask you if is there any way, as far as you know, of getting a certificate from a local authority that that land can get built on, instead of trusting the engineer’s word. 

A second question i wanted to ask has to do with whether it is possible in Greece to build with straw-bales, and in case, can an italian licensed building engineer provide the project and the certificates of the building (fire, impiantistics, and energy efficiency) or does it have to be a local engineer to do that? My sister is a building engineer here in Italy….it would make me save some money..

A last question has to do with the project itself: if i apply for a preliminary approval presenting the blueprints and obtain it, can i than change my mind and ask for another approval on a different project? 

And...i was asked for 13.000 euros for getting the permit.... can't i request it myself instead of paying someone to do it?

Forgive me for the many questions and thank you in advance for your time,
Any suggestion of yours would be very appreciated.


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## concertina

lentas said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am in the process of buying a piece of land in Crete. My lawyer there is taking care of it. The land has no building permit, so an engineer was hired by the owner of the land to verify if it would be possible to build there. The engineer assured us that that land can indeed be built on (house of 180 m2), and he is going to state this in front of a notary. (the land is less than 4000m2, outside of the urban area, but it is buildable according to greek law since it was originally more than 4000m2 and split in two by a road built during dictatorship...my lawyer verified it)
> But i am still a bit worried that i might have unpleasant surprises later.
> So i wanted to ask you if is there any way, as far as you know, of getting a certificate from a local authority that that land can get built on, instead of trusting the engineer’s word.
> 
> A second question i wanted to ask has to do with whether it is possible in Greece to build with straw-bales, and in case, can an italian licensed building engineer provide the project and the certificates of the building (fire, impiantistics, and energy efficiency) or does it have to be a local engineer to do that? My sister is a building engineer here in Italy….it would make me save som
> 
> A last question has to do with the project itself: if i apply for a preliminary approval presenting the blueprints and obtain it, can i than change my mind and ask for another approval on a different project?
> 
> And...i was asked for 13.000 euros for getting the permit.... can't i request it myself instead of paying someone to do it?
> 
> Any suggestion of yours would be very appreciated.


Oh God this sounds like hell,First of all a building permit means building licence,they are the same thing,your mechanic drawers up the plans,you say yes and you pay her or him who in turn pays the local council planning people and you wait for their approval.Whether you can build or not will be verifiable by your local planning department and you must go with your lawyer or yourself if you speak Greek and sit down with them and prove the land is for building,you need to know if it is in the plan which would have been decided by the council.Your engineer can say what he likes,your lawyer must first speak with the local council and have papers to prove it is or is not in the plan and if its buildable.The cost of your licence-permit depends on how many metres you intend to build,in 2007 our licence cost 3.500 on 250 metres,I know its gone up but i will tell you I think that is crazy money,we had to renew the licence 3 years ago and that was still 3.500 again so why 13.000 please,how many metres are you building?You can build on out of the plan land very often and as it has had a road through it then that wont happen to you.I believe you will not be able to use your sister as anything done in Greece must be undertaken by a licenced mechanic approved to greek standards and issued here,you may be able to sit down with your sister and a greek mechanic and discuss it but any icence must be through a Greece approved mechanic.Straw bales, never seen or heard of here,you should find yourself a ECO mechanic to advise you.Once a mechanic makes the plans,does all the studies,the physics etc..,if you say yes then he puts in into the council,thats it,no turning back,you will pay,if you change your mind you will pay again for a different plan,so careful before you finally decide if you like the design,the position,the structure etc..The mechanic can tear it up and drawer up a different looking house but if you say yes,I love it and he submits it then its done for good unless you pay again.Only a mechanic can submit plans for a building to the planning department not you and you must pay the mechanic for making the plans,his studies and x amount of the fee goes to the council.We were going to buy land to build and were nearly done over many times,our lawyer used to say..in the bin..why..because these deeds dont show where this man got the land,just says Mr papadopooloo owns it,from where?must see back,back,back paper work to the original land developer.So 13.000 sounds like a rip off to me,your hair would stand on end if I told you what I have heard about sharks and they do wear suits and ties.


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## lentas

Dear Concertina,
thank you for your prompt and very informative reply.

Indeed i do not understand why i have to depend on an engineer's opinion...but this was the only alternative i was given. My lawyer is not revealing very efficient...he is suggesting me, as a warranty, to pay one part of the price now and the other part after i get the building license. But neither is the owner willing to accept this formula, nor am i willing to ask for a building permission, and thus start building, in the very near future (i do not have enough money to spend on it right now). It sound much more reasonable what you are suggesting, that is to get a written proof of the buildability of the land by some official authorities. But i do not know which office would be able to release it. Could you suggest me, basing on your experience?

As regards the straw bales, there seem to be already e few such buildings in greece, and also in crete. I got in contact with some eco-engineers and studios to get information about the specific permits and beurocratic aspects. As i get the info i will post them here might they be useful to others. Straw bale buildings seem to be perfect for me: fast and easy to build, very economic and highly insulating...perfect for off-grid passive houses.

Thank you again


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## concertina

Be careful of eco houses,I know people in Ireland who built that way and cracks began appearing,then the whole house was deemed unsafe and had to be pulled down, a court case is pending.I would go eco,off grid,solar power,turbine power, water power,grey waste used and used and black waste.The planning department at your local council will know all about your land,ask around at different mechanics how much your licence should be for the metres you want,dont do key in hand which means they do everything and hand you the key at the end,we only wanted up to the concrete and iron stage and that was paid in dribbles,you should only pay for the licence at the start when the plans are ready to go in to the council.You pay for the concrete after it is poured and the iron.We used some of their workmen but you must watch them every minute and scream if you dont like something,tell them to do it again,tear it down.Remember to fence your land immediately,neighbors will steal some.


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## lentas

concertina said:


> Be careful of eco houses,I know people in Ireland who built that way and cracks began appearing,then the whole house was deemed unsafe and had to be pulled down, a court case is pending.I would go eco,off grid,solar power,turbine power, water power,grey waste used and used and black waste.The planning department at your local council will know all about your land,ask around at different mechanics how much your licence should be for the metres you want,dont do key in hand which means they do everything and hand you the key at the end,we only wanted up to the concrete and iron stage and that was paid in dribbles,you should only pay for the licence at the start when the plans are ready to go in to the council.You pay for the concrete after it is poured and the iron.We used some of their workmen but you must watch them every minute and scream if you dont like something,tell them to do it again,tear it down.Remember to fence your land immediately,neighbors will steal some.


Thank you very much for your very helpful advices


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## concertina

Thankyou for your message.I want to tell you, as well as other members, that the government is talking again of continuing with the land registry,digital, they say this time,so keep an ear and eye open for that as you will need to register your land and intended house,maybe you will register the land first then the house,it depends on when it gets under way.I think one looses ownership if its not registered,so look on line for that from time time and the areas they start with.Also if you build a semi basement it is necessary to wrap a special black plastic membrane around the part that will be in the ground to stop any damp,you cant buy it just anywhere,some mechanics dont ensure this is done or say it is done(lies)when its not,When the owner is not there they might try to not do it or they might put nothing better than bin liner soft flimsy plastic on a role which will disintegrate,they told us they would do it but 2 days before we looked and it was not done and the digger guy was coming to move all the soil back ,to fill in up to ground level so we flew to the shop,bought it,put it on the roof rack and went back to wrap it round ourselves which was hard work because we couldnt knock in the nails to the concrete,its with stones and iron,we were doing it by lamp light in the end at 10 pm.We bought too much so thought just keep going round,we managed for most of the 90 square metres to be wrapped 3 times.It can just be seen above ground level.Its a hard black plastic,you can roll it,with indentations all over,its meant for that purpose and does the job very well,without it you may experience damp and I have got a thing about damp houses after UK,blimin damp everywhere,I used to go with agents to view property and if I got a sniff of damp I would say..Oy you,this place stinks of damp,Im off..my pet hate ha and they hated me too.So keep this in mind anyone building with a semi basement,never trust any builders.


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## EricJ

I'd love to hear more about straw bales in Greece. I know it has been done in Canada for years. Did you find a supplier? How about permits and engineers that work with it?


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## nick&sue

concertina said:


> And who told you 10.000,a mechanic or a land agent,thats insane,sounds like the ripping off has started,depending on how many metres,our 250 was 3 and half thousand.You cant be doing this on your own surely?


10.000 is not unrealistic for a permit in Greece. Further and more importantly you may not get one for a building started without one. Then again if you have 'trusted advice' you could pick it up cheap. Unfortunately need to do your research which isn't easy because of languange and cultural barriers. Good luck.


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## cermignano

Also make sure the ground is suitable for building on. Some scam builders in the past have built on the equivalent of 'puffed rice' ie ground that soaks in water and expands then contracts as it dries out making the house unstable.
you really need to research research research


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## Aegeva

concertina said:


> *buying part built house*
> 
> And who told you 10.000,a mechanic or a land agent,thats insane,sounds like the ripping off has started,depending on how many metres,our 250 was 3 and half thousand.You cant be doing this on your own surely?


Hi Concertina, your comments are priceless and so helpful, thank you! Did you create a blog on all of these details and process you went through?


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