# mud wrestling with real estate... green community, arabian ranches, et al.



## hubbly_bubbly (Oct 17, 2010)

Hi all,

Buying in Dubai? Or have you bought?

My wife and I are planning to do so, along with actually living in the property. We have been living in the Middle East for a while, (she is Palestinian) and we are coming down in the new year to take up residence for the foreseeable future, in our own... "Little piece of paradise".

It is not imperative where we live as all our work will be outside the UAE and we are yet to have kids, so schools not important at this stage. We world prefer to be in a house though and have seen many on the internet. We are hoping to buy in under 3 million AED. We are planning to make the first round trip in December.

Any recent advice, tips, horror stories, dream transactions or anything else that you might like to add would be great. Or maybe you feel strongly against buying and why?

Opinions on where your favourite area is and why would be great too.

Also, if you "love", or at least respect your real estate agent, lawyer, accountant, bank... please pass on their contact details.

We would especially appreciate any words of wisdom if you have bought into the Green Community or Arabian Ranches. Or if you are against these communities and why.

Many of you are renting but please do not hold back if you have some thoughts too.

We truly appreciate all feedback and with many thanks.

Cheers.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

A search on this forum, even a scout through today's thread titles would tell you a lot....


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## hubbly_bubbly (Oct 17, 2010)

I read your NYT link. It's very good. Is this the case for everyone? Buying off-the-plan as opposed to a completed (2nd hand) property? Can one justify paying 200,000+AED in rent when that could easily pay a mortgage. Or because the company pays it, one could be blasé about investing because, "It's only for a couple of years."

Over the last few weeks, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading and have gained much from this site. It's all very informative, thank you, even down to the "good coffee" tip. I am merely hoping for a more updated analysis as a lot of good info is pre 2008. Search "green community" or "arabian ranches" for example. I am not asking anyone to repeat themselves.

Also, since the financial crisis a lot of things have changed. Has everyone been screwed?

Just wanting to engage in a updated cyber "back-yard chat". Judging by the "views" from your thread, it seems that other people do too.

Best.


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## wandabug (Apr 22, 2010)

Sorry I am a little confused, you are looking to buy a villa in Dubai but will be working somewhere else? where will you be working? How will you get residence permit?
Most horror stories have been through buying off plan not with resales.
Green Community and Arabian Ranches both very nice areas, I particularly like GC. but you are not restricted in your choice by work or school so visit both areas and decide which area you like.
Prices likely to drop further, at the moment apartments are in over supply. Nakheel have put several villa developments (including Jumeirah Park) on hold in the last couple of years but have just announced that building is to restart again,this means that there will be a huge amount of villas coming onto the market in the next 1-3 years. Villa prices will drop as well. 
If you can pay cash great, but if you are paying a mortgage and the price drops when you come to sell you may have been better off paying rent
IF you can get a mortgage, expect to pay a hefty (25%) deposit.


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## hubbly_bubbly (Oct 17, 2010)

wandabug said:


> Sorry I am a little confused, you are looking to buy a villa in Dubai but will be working somewhere else? where will you be working? How will you get residence permit?
> Most horror stories have been through buying off plan not with resales.
> Green Community and Arabian Ranches both very nice areas, I particularly like GC. but you are not restricted in your choice by work or school so visit both areas and decide which area you like.
> Prices likely to drop further, at the moment apartments are in over supply. Nakheel have put several villa developments (including Jumeirah Park) on hold in the last couple of years but have just announced that building is to restart again,this means that there will be a huge amount of villas coming onto the market in the next 1-3 years. Villa prices will drop as well.
> ...


Thanks, wandabug.

I will have an "office" in media city but as I work as a cameraman for a US network covering the rest of the Middle East, most of what I do will not be in Dubai. My company will be getting me the residency/work permit etc. and so most of my time in Dubai will be at home.

So, having lived the in ME for a while, my wife and I would like to "settle down" and have chosen Dubai. We would like to buy and are indeed planning on a mortgage. We are currently getting info/negotiating through HSBC Middle East in this regard. 

We are coming down for round one in December but will not be moving here until March 2011, with a possible 3 -6 mnth rental period before buying, for safety reasons exactly like you mentioned.

Seems that TGC and Arabian Ranches are "safe(r) bets". We are not excited about moving into an apartment and we like the idea of a community setting, especially for possible future kids. But we are are nervous in the sense that if we bought for example, in TGC, within 5 years from now, so much else will be available etc. But do not want to rent for too long. All the usual headaches. :juggle:

Thanks for your time on this.


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## expatwanna be (Oct 19, 2010)

*Good Answers*

Thanks Wandabug and Hubbly Bubbly I have been reading your discussion and it all quite helpful. Wandabug I will most likely be renting for 12 months in JLT where I already have a few ex work mates in country, who knows I might score yours or one of them may already be your tennant. Currently still in Aussie waiting for letter of offer/contract. But everything moves ssoooooooooooooooo Sloowwwwwwllyyyyyyyy Thanks again.


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## cami (Aug 11, 2010)

i've read all the posts here, and i'm still wondering... how can one buy property in a region (im talking the gcc area here) where there are no laws to protect expat property, and 95% of the law suits are lost when people want to sue the developer or whoever else manages your property?

second, given the upscale prices here and the below-the-par quality of construction work, who in their right minds would pay 3.5 mil bucks on property when they could pay the same amount (or even less) for incomparable better built homes in a country whose constitution lists laws that protect property?

but then again, i'm a woman.. what do i know of safe investing and stuff...


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## hubbly_bubbly (Oct 17, 2010)

cami said:


> i've read all the posts here, and i'm still wondering... how can one buy property in a region (im talking the gcc area here) where there are no laws to protect expat property, and 95% of the law suits are lost when people want to sue the developer or whoever else manages your property?
> 
> second, given the upscale prices here and the below-the-par quality of construction work, who in their right minds would pay 3.5 mil bucks on property when they could pay the same amount (or even less) for incomparable better built homes in a country whose constitution lists laws that protect property?
> 
> but then again, i'm a woman.. what do i know of safe investing and stuff...


Hi cami,

You've made some very good points.

To begin with I would argue though that there are (tens of?) thousands of american ex-home owners who wanted and needed better civil law protection/regulation to kick-in in the last two years, regardless of the price/quality of their home. And they didn't get it and lost their homes.

I do agree with you and I personally wouldn't buy a property in Dubai (or GCC) for 3.5 million bucks either. 3.5 million AED is another matter altogether, and I still wouldn't spend that much. The way I see it is, who in their right mind would pay rent of say, 180/200,000AED per year, for five years or more (out of their own pocket, not company's) and then to just pack up and leave? That's just silly money.

So, in terms of Dubai, why not study, calculate and do the least riskiest purchase for the best possible standard of living? Is that a fool's errand?

Another example, outside the GCC but I think still on topic, buying in Beirut. How could one justify spending 3.5 million (either currency from above) on a property when the threat of war is ALWAYS hanging over the place. No guarantees of having a home after that if the war gods comes out to play. But people, especially expats do and is now becoming the most expensive city to buy in the ME. Go figure. I can't. Maybe, in part, because no point in investing in Dubai?

You should also see the million dollar homes in Baghdad, Kabul and Islamabad. And who, as an expat, would want to buy there or as you ask, anywhere in the GCC? 

Renting/buying in Dubai/GCC versus buying-somewhere-safer-in-the-world-where-you'll-always-own-your-home-no-matter-what.

It's all relative. Crazy too, but relative, in my humble opinion.

Great post, cami.


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## cami (Aug 11, 2010)

hubbly_bubbly said:


> Hi cami,
> 
> You've made some very good points.
> 
> ...


thank you. the best deal here is to get your company to offer you accommodation. otherwise, you're right about the futility of paying 220,000/year for 5 years out of your own pocket.

most companies do offer accommodation and, if you belong to the higher echelons, a car, a phone, and God knows what else.

i couldn't stop thinking of something partially related to the rent-or-buy issue raised here: so many originally born in the so-called developing countries have been seeking a better life in the developed countries in the hope that laws, lifestyles, and prospects would be incomparable better. today, there is a reverse exodus of people born in these developed countries who choose to leave in countries not long ago deemed as "unstable" or even "dangerous." 

the grass is always greener somewhere else, unfortunately...

great response, hubbly_bubbly. i wish you clear vision and wisdom in making a sound decision about investing in property here.


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## Archiespice (Oct 27, 2010)

Hello friends, i have been reading all your posts carefully. I understand that some of you are looking at buying property, while some of you are wanting to lease. In both the scenarios you will require to get in touch with a real estate consultant to help you out. I have been in the real estate market for quiet some time and would like to help you on one on one basis.

Please do let me know, what you looking for and will definately suggest you some good deals.
chao


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