# Foreign Streamlined Program vs ordinary late filing



## vogener83

Hello,

Some time ago, you guys helped me a lot with some questions. So, I finally decided to move back to my country, Germany, and now I want to become in compliance with US taxes. Just as a reminder, I’m german but got the US citizenship while living in the US.

These are my doubts:

- Foreign Streamlined Program
I’m not clear on how many days do I have to be living in Germany before applying. I’ve read that I have to be 330 days living in Germany in the last 3 years. Do they have to be continued? 

For instance, last year I lived in Germany 3 months, but then I returned back to the US. Can I add these 3 months to the countdown?

- I’m not sure if the ordinary late filing of amended returns and missing reports is an option for me. I was told that I can not apply through this route because it is only for those who missed informing IRS about foreign bank accounts and pension plans. In my case, I also missed including the income that I had from the german company.

Thanks in advance.


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## Bevdeforges

Have moved you over to the tax section in hopes of finding someone who can respond to your questions.
Cheers,
Bev


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## ForeignBody

vogener83 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Some time ago, you guys helped me a lot with some questions. So, I finally decided to move back to my country, Germany, and now I want to become in compliance with US taxes. Just as a reminder, I’m german but got the US citizenship while living in the US.
> 
> These are my doubts:
> 
> - Foreign Streamlined Program
> I’m not clear on how many days do I have to be living in Germany before applying. I’ve read that I have to be 330 days living in Germany in the last 3 years. Do they have to be continued?
> 
> For instance, last year I lived in Germany 3 months, but then I returned back to the US. Can I add these 3 months to the countdown?
> 
> - I’m not sure if the ordinary late filing of amended returns and missing reports is an option for me. I was told that I can not apply through this route because it is only for those who missed informing IRS about foreign bank accounts and pension plans. In my case, I also missed including the income that I had from the german company.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


It is not just a question of being physically outside the US for 330 days, but also that you had no abode in the US when you were absent. So the question becomes what was you status while you were in Germany for three months? The definition of abode is not precise, but will encompass issues like did you still have a US home, bank account, driver's license and/or other connections?


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## vogener83

ForeignBody said:


> It is not just a question of being physically outside the US for 330 days, but also that you had no abode in the US when you were absent. So the question becomes what was you status while you were in Germany for three months? The definition of abode is not precise, but will encompass issues like did you still have a US home, bank account, driver's license and/or other connections?


Yes, I still had my driver's license and us bank account, that's all I had, not home. Thanks


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## BBCWatcher

Here's what the IRS says about non-residence eligibility for the offshore version of the Streamlined Program:

_Non-residency requirement applicable to individuals who are U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents (i.e., “green card holders”): Individual U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents, or estates of U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents, meet the applicable non-residency requirement if, in any one or more of the most recent three years for which the U.S. tax return due date (or properly applied for extended due date) has passed, the individual did not have a U.S. abode and the individual was physically outside the United States for at least 330 full days. Under IRC section 911 and its regulations, which apply for purposes of these procedures, neither temporary presence of the individual in the United States nor maintenance of a dwelling in the United States by an individual necessarily mean that the individual’s abode is in the United States. For more information on the meaning of “abode,” see IRS Publication 54, which may be found at Publication 54._

You probably did not have an abode in the United States if you only had a U.S. driver's license and U.S. bank account, but check Publication 54 for more information.


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## vogener83

BBCWatcher said:


> Here's what the IRS says about non-residence eligibility for the offshore version of the Streamlined Program:
> 
> _Non-residency requirement applicable to individuals who are U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents (i.e., “green card holders”): Individual U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents, or estates of U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents, meet the applicable non-residency requirement if, in any one or more of the most recent three years for which the U.S. tax return due date (or properly applied for extended due date) has passed, the individual did not have a U.S. abode and the individual was physically outside the United States for at least 330 full days. Under IRC section 911 and its regulations, which apply for purposes of these procedures, neither temporary presence of the individual in the United States nor maintenance of a dwelling in the United States by an individual necessarily mean that the individual’s abode is in the United States. For more information on the meaning of “abode,” see IRS Publication 54, which may be found at Publication 54._
> 
> You probably did not have an abode in the United States if you only had a U.S. driver's license and U.S. bank account, but check Publication 54 for more information.



I've been taking a look to the publication and the requirements are not clear at all.

Basically, last year I lived en Germany 5 months. This year I've been living here (since I returned from the US) 1 month. I have had my principal income coming from Germany since some years ago. So does this mean that after living in Germany 6 more months I will be able to apply through the offshore streamlined program since I had been present in Germany for at least 330 days? Is it as simple as that or I'm missing something? Thanks so much


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## iota2014

vogener83 said:


> - I’m not sure if the ordinary late filing of amended returns and missing reports is an option for me. I was told that I can not apply through this route because it is only for those who missed informing IRS about foreign bank accounts and pension plans. In my case, I also missed including the income that I had from the german company.


You can file the amended returns, paying the tax due, plus interest and any late-payment penalties due, and not forgetting to include Schedule B to report that you have foreign accounts. 

Once you've done that, you can file the FBARs. 

So yes, it's an option.


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## AKIF.M

iota2014 said:


> You can file the amended returns, paying the tax due, plus interest and any late-payment penalties due, and not forgetting to include Schedule B to report that you have foreign accounts.
> 
> Once you've done that, you can file the FBARs.
> 
> So yes, it's an option.


If you have already filed returns and some income or information was not included then you should file amended returns and pay any tax, penalty and interest due. I would suggest doing it as soon as possible to avoid further penalties and interest. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPA in Houston for tax accounting bookkeeping payroll

DISCLOSURE: This communication has not been prepared as a formal tax opinion within the procedures described in Treasury Department Circular 230. As a result, we are required by Treasury Regulations to advise you that for any significant Federal tax issue addressed herein, the advice in this communication (including any attachments) was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used by the taxpayer, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer.


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## iota2014

AKIF.M said:


> If you have already filed returns and some income or information was not included then you should file amended returns and pay any tax, penalty and interest due. I would suggest doing it as soon as possible to avoid further penalties and interest.


Don't worry, vogener83, you're not likely to be hit with any further penalties beyond the late-filing penalties that kick in automatically. Germany, like most countries, does not have a collection agreement with the US, so the IRS has no pathway to try to impose any "further penalties" on whim.

Be sure you calculate what's due (tax, interest and penalties) accurately, and send the money when you send the return, and once that's done, file the FBARs and sleep easy.


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## JustLurking

AKIF.M said:


> ...
> CPA in Houston for tax accounting bookkeeping payroll
> 
> DISCLOSURE: This communication has not been prepared as a formal tax opinion within the procedures described in Treasury Department Circular 230. As a result, we are required by Treasury Regulations to advise you that for any significant Federal tax issue addressed herein, the advice in this communication (including any attachments) was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used by the taxpayer, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer.


I would expect a CPA to know that from June 2014 the IRS no longer permits 'Circular 230 Disclosures' of this type.


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## AKIF.M

Thanks for the information.


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## AKIF.M

Thanks for the information. Always learning


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## vogener83

iota2014 said:


> You can file the amended returns, paying the tax due, plus interest and any late-payment penalties due, and not forgetting to include Schedule B to report that you have foreign accounts.
> 
> Once you've done that, you can file the FBARs.
> 
> So yes, it's an option.



Hi,

I’ve downloaded the recently revised Form 14653, and I’m now clear that the Offshore Streamlined Program is not for me right now, since I haven’t been living in Germany during at least 330 days in any one of the last 3 years. The form asks directly if you’ve been living offshore at least 330 days (YES OR NO), not how many days each year, so it is not about of adding up days…

So to file through the Offshore Streamlined Program I’ll have to wait until 2018 (I’ll be living in Germany the whole 2017 year), and that’s to much wait.

Questions:

1- Can I still apply through the Domestic Streamlined Program while living here in Germany?

2- What is the exact name of this other option (“ordinary late filing of amended returns and missing reports”) I don’t find anything. The only other alternative to the streamlined that I see is the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program (or Quiet Disclosure?), which everybody recommends avoiding. How many years of amended tax returns and fbars do I have to send, 3 and 6?

Thanks very much for all the advice.


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## iota2014

vogener83 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I’ve downloaded the recently revised Form 14653, and I’m now clear that the Offshore Streamlined Program is not for me right now, since I haven’t been living in Germany during at least 330 days in any one of the last 3 years. The form asks directly if you’ve been living offshore at least 330 days (YES OR NO), not how many days each year, so it is not about of adding up days…
> 
> So to file through the Offshore Streamlined Program I’ll have to wait until 2018 (I’ll be living in Germany the whole 2017 year), and that’s to much wait.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1- Can I still apply through the Domestic Streamlined Program while living here in Germany?


I'm not sure. Maybe, if you meet all the criteria.


> In addition to having to meet the general eligibility criteria described above, individual U.S. taxpayers, or estates of individual U.S. taxpayers, seeking to use the Streamlined Domestic Offshore Procedures described in this section must: (1) fail to meet the applicable non-residency requirement described in section 2.A. above (for joint return filers, one or both of the spouses must fail to meet the applicable non-residency requirement described in 2.A. above); (2) have previously filed a U.S. tax return (if required) for each of the most recent 3 years for which the U.S. tax return due date (or properly applied for extended due date) has passed; (3) have failed to report gross income from a foreign financial asset and pay tax as required by U.S. law, and may have failed to file an FBAR (FinCEN Form 114, previously Form TD F 90-22.1) and/or one or more international information returns (e.g., Forms 3520, 3520-A, 5471, 5472, 8938, 926, and 8621) with respect to the foreign financial asset, and (4) such failures resulted from non-willful conduct. Non-willful conduct is conduct that is due to negligence, inadvertence, or mistake or conduct that is the result of a good faith misunderstanding of the requirements of the law.


https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/u-s-taxpayers-residing-in-the-united-states



> 2- What is the exact name of this other option (“ordinary late filing of amended returns and missing reports”) I don’t find anything. The only other alternative to the streamlined that I see is the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program (or Quiet Disclosure?), which everybody recommends avoiding. How many years of amended tax returns and fbars do I have to send, 3 and 6?


It's not OVDP, that's meant for the tax-evaders. This is just filing amended returns. You just file an amended return to include the unreported income for each year that needs amending. You do have to pay penalties and interest. Have a look at https://www.irs.gov/uac/what-to-know-about-late-filing-and-late-paying-penalties to get an idea of how they're calculated. I'm guessing you'd only be liable for the late-payment penalties, since you did file the originally returns on time.

Maybe you could use free or cheap tax software to calculate what you owe, if any of the programmes include calculation of penalties and interest. Someone more knowledgeable than I may know.

Once you've filed the amended returns, and paid what's due, you can then file the FBARs according to the instructions at https://www.irs.gov/individuals/int...onal-information-return-submission-procedures



> Thanks very much for all the advice.


. You're welcome. Bear in mind I'm just mentioning the options - only you can decide what's best for you.


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## iota2014

More on filing amended returns:

https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/ten-facts-on-filing-an-amended-tax-return

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc308.html

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040x.pdf


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## iota2014

iota2014 said:


> Once you've filed the amended returns, and paid what's due, you can then file the FBARs according to the instructions at https://www.irs.gov/individuals/int...onal-information-return-submission-procedures


Correction, that's the wrong link. This is the one for delinquent FBARs:

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/delinquent-fbar-submission-procedures


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## vogener83

Thanks very much!


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## vogener83

Hello Iota 2014,

I'm going to send 3 years of amended tax returns with my foreign income and 6 years of FBAR's. 

1- My tax preparer has all the 6 FBAR's done and ready to file. He says I have to send them (2010 to 2015) before June 30th, 2016. Can it be sent BEFORE filing the amended tax returns with my foreign income?

2- I'm putting in my FBAR's the US address of a friend instead of my Germany address, just to avoid any IRS notice to be lost through international email. Would it be better to put my foreign address or I can leave it as it is?

3- Is there a way to set up an email to receive any notice from IRS about this amended returns/fbar's?

Thanks


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## Bevdeforges

vogener83 said:


> Hello Iota 2014,
> 
> I'm going to send 3 years of amended tax returns with my foreign income and 6 years of FBAR's.
> 
> 1- My tax preparer has all the 6 FBAR's done and ready to file. He says I have to send them (2010 to 2015) before June 30th, 2016. Can it be sent BEFORE filing the amended tax returns with my foreign income?


You don't send FBARS. They must be filed electronically. If you are using a tax preparer to do your FBARs, they have to registered as a third party filer, but once you give them the ok, they literally just press a button and "zap" the files to the appropriate office. But in any event, it doesn't really matter if you file the FBARs before or after your tax returns.


> 2- I'm putting in my FBAR's the US address of a friend instead of my Germany address, just to avoid any IRS notice to be lost through international email. Would it be better to put my foreign address or I can leave it as it is?


I'd say use your foreign address. It really makes more sense as to why you have foreign accounts if you are living outside the US. (Plus, they are supposed to be working on an exemption from the FBAR filing for those of us who have only accounts in our country of residence. Not sure it will ever get through, but at least by using your actual overseas residence, you lend credence to the arguments for the exemption.)



> 3- Is there a way to set up an email to receive any notice from IRS about this amended returns/fbar's?
> 
> Thanks


Basically, no. There are any number of scams afoot on the Internet that involve e-mails allegedly from the IRS. The IRS doesn't send out information or queries via e-mail for precisely that reason.
Cheers,
Bev


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## vogener83

Thanks for the advice!


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## BBCWatcher

You can order a tax transcript free of charge if you want to know your current situation with the IRS. You can do that every year if you like.


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