# Planning a scouting trip



## Physics Guy

France is currently at the top of my shortlist for European second home / possible expat move. But France is big and while I've seen some of it I wasn't looking at a specific move at the time. So I'm sort of thinking out loud and asking if there anyplace I'm ignoring that I shouldn't ignore.

Weather 
Mild four seasons. I’d prefer to keep it between -10 and 30 but 35 might be a more accurate strict limit. Sun is nice in winter but unless it is constantly gray and rainy it’s not going to be a deal breaker. Mostly the weather isn’t going to eliminate too many places in France.

Transportation and Access
One of the reasons to retire in Europe is I’d prefer to be less dependent on a car in daily life. Public transit is good. Walking is good. Biking perhaps. I will likely get a car (preferably an EV) but I want to be able to do as much as possible without it day to day.

One complication is that while I've always been a homebody I have come to appreciate living in a city during my last 4 years in Seoul. Someplace that is big enough to have varied things to explore and have things happening year round would be good. So while I am drawn to the houses found in villages and small town I'm perhaps leaning towards the smaller cities.

Location
Not a touristic beach area. Not a touristic ski area. In general I prefer houses (including townhouses) over flats.

Currently I’m mostly looking at Brittany. Decent rail access (better than Normandy at least). Climate looks good. Cheap real estate for the most part. But I’ve also thought about the Atlantic coastal area from Nantes to Bordeaux and would like to know more about it. For that matter I’ve spent time in Metz and like the region although it does not seem popular with expats.


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## Physics Guy

Hopefully this doesn't get me in trouble with the moderators for inflating my post count but I figured I'd answer Bevdeforges before being asked. 

As a US current resident France is more interesting that Spain or Portugal because it is more centrally located in Europe. With cheap airlines this isn't a huge advantage but it is some. Additionally from the US it is hard to find info on moving to Spain or Portugal that doesn't focus on the beach portions and I'm really not interested in beaches (although I don't mind coastline). Add in a fairly decent path to permanent residency for a retiree to top things off.


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## Bevdeforges

First impression of your requirements leads me to think you may be romanticizing France just a bit.

Weather
The temperature range you give covers most of France except maybe the Massif Centrale in the center of France and the ski areas in the Juras and Alps. Except that recently the summer temperatures can't really be guaranteed to stay at 35° or less. Blame climate change, if you like, but the weather here is getting considerably less "reliable" - we've had some seriously hot streaks in the last few summers, and homes in France aren't terribly well set up for extreme heat anywhere in France.

Transportation and Access
Public transit is really only generally available in and immediately around the largest towns/cities, like Paris, Lyon, Marseille, etc. In most areas you will definitely need a car. And to some extent, biking is a matter of taking your life in your hands. There are not a lot of bike paths or in some places even roads wide enough to handle two way traffic plus a "bike lane." But as long as you are looking to live in a real city you should be OK - though I don't believe I'd rely on bike transportation in Paris. For trains, you'd need to be sure to locate in a town with a train station on a line that is on or connects with a major train artery to Paris or wherever you fancy going by train. Though bus lines and ride sharing/co-voiturage are getting more and more popular, so that could be an option depending on your plans.

Location
Brittany is lovely but mostly smaller towns. Even Brest is more of a very large small town rather than an actual "city." (Said from the point of view of someone who lived in the US usually within the suburbs of a real hub city.) Both Brittany and Normandy are considered to be somewhat "remote" (I suppose that means "from Paris") and to a certain extent they probably qualify as being "rural" areas which doesn't sound like what you're looking for. But that's my impression (and I really love Normandy). I'm sure other folks will jump in here with their takes on France in general and particular regions as they know them.


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## Keri22

Locations. Brittany. If you want city type activity year round (music/movies/theatre/ nice restaurants/events) and life without a vehicle then you would need to be in Rennes or Nantes (yes, I know that technically its not now in Bretagne but only because France relabelled it). Maybe Brest. All are much more pricey for real estate than smaller towns. Bretagne is a maritime region so you have to suck it up weatherwise. Rennes is now only 1hour 45 min, give or take, from Paris on TGV. Further west of Rennes and the TGV must slow down somewhat because they have not up graded the track.


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## ARPC

All agreements to all said above, but I recently spent some time in La Roche Sur Yon, in Vendée, and it may be a good size/location for your (however basic and somewhat fantastic) needs. Cosmopolitan but small, not freezing in winter, not touristy but beautiful, kind of a moneyed, modern feeling, lots of rail options around the region and very walkable in the city itself. Enjoy your visit!


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## BackinFrance

Perhaps avoid anywhere where the train to Paris arrives at Montparnasse.


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## Physics Guy

I think it is at least as likely that I am romanticizing retirement!

One reason to start the thread is that I fully recognize that I am too flexible. Weather flexibility isn’t even the worst of it. When I started planning for an early retirement I wanted a house with a small bit of land enough for a decent garden, some fruit trees, and an outbuilding for use as a workshop.

I still like that idea but over the past five or so years leading up to and covering my time in Seoul I’ve come to appreciate the benefits of both being able to walk on daily errands (to the grocery, coffee shops, multiple restaurants for when we don’t want to cook, hardware), having pleasant surroundings for purely leisure walking, and being close enough to a more “happening” place to remove the barrier to going out for a special dinner, a museum, a just a ramble around an interesting neighborhood. Atlanta, my US base at the moment, has special restaurants, museums, small parks, and neighborhoods that would work except that the 45 minute drive combined with the hassles of parking kills the desire to simply decide to head out for the day and explore. Plus since very little of Atlanta is at all viable for walking to any errands so moving into the city doesn’t really remove the hassles of driving and parking because there is no viable walking or intracity transit.

Researching walkable, transit friendly places in the US leads to a lot of places that have little appeal. The usual big expensive cities (although few of them really fit), a few small artistic or trendy towns that are again too expensive, and a smattering of what I think of as small cities with walkable cores often having universities or being the local center for a region. Which sounds an awful lot like Brest, Rennes, Nantes, Metz, Nancy, and a score of other small French cities with populations of 100k - 300k. Then there is the question of how dead are the smaller towns. 

Is there a French equivalent of townhomes with small back gardens that is still affordable in a town that isn’t dying but also isn’t completely a tourist area?


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## Physics Guy

BackinFrance said:


> Perhaps avoid anywhere where the train to Paris arrives at Montparnasse.


Why? To me the west and SW look like some of the most interesting portions of France.



ARPC said:


> La Roche Sur Yon, in Vendée, and it may be a good size/location for your (however basic and somewhat fantastic) needs. Cosmopolitan but small, not freezing in winter, not touristy but beautiful, kind of a moneyed, modern feeling, lots of rail options around the region and very walkable in the city itself. Enjoy your visit!


Thanks. As mentioned above I am interested in that size town but there are so many options that it is nice to get a recommendation for one that doesn't feel like it is dying.


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## Bevdeforges

Physics Guy said:


> I think it is at least as likely that I am romanticizing retirement!


I suppose that could be. However, the longer I am retired, the more I am coming to appreciate some of the "perks" thereof. (Though much of that is probably more the perks of increasing age - like being better able to say "non" when you don't want to do something.)

A big problem with recommending a particular town in France is that there are something like 35,000 towns in France, and to a certain extent, most folks aren't really familiar with all of the towns in their immediate area. And there are some really small towns located very close to larger towns (with shopping and other facilities you require) that may very well fill your needs better than being in the larger town. Really difficult to scope out without making a few reconnaissance visits.

There are some housing units that are similar to "townhouses" in the US sense - though they may actually be "row houses" in the sense that they are connected houses with fenced or walled off yards in the back (or sometimes front). They may or may not have a "syndic" (i.e. a sort of condo association) that handles certain elements of maintenance of the common areas - though this is also true of many housing developments ("lotissements") built in the last 30 to 50 years, too. 



Physics Guy said:


> Which sounds an awful lot like Brest, Rennes, Nantes, Metz, Nancy, and a score of other small French cities with populations of 100k - 300k. Then there is the question of how dead are the smaller towns.


If those towns interest you, then that's where you should start doing your research. Chances are, there are small towns clustered on the outskirts of each one of those towns you are considering. There may or may not be public transport to get in and out of the adjacent "city" center, but that's for you to discover as you research these places. Plus, take a look at what the adjacent small town has to offer for shops and services. Once you locate a town of interest, check to see what sort of a website the town (i.e. the mairie) has set up to get a feel for what's on offer locally. Then decide what your longer distance travel requirements are - Paris? large regional centers? for shopping or medical care? etc. - and see how that stacks up. No matter where you wind up, you'll need a car for certain errands - e.g. major grocery shopping, buying garden or home repair supplies, medical services and hospitals/clinics, etc. It's also a good reason to plan on renting for your first year or two in France, because you become aware of certain things only by living in an area for a period of time.


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## ARPC

BackinFrance said:


> Perhaps avoid anywhere where the train to Paris arrives at Montparnasse.


What?!? My transfers at Montparnasse are literally the only time in my life I get to speak English to strangers and shop at Lush!

which may in fact belie your point…😂


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## BackinFrance

ARPC said:


> What?!? My transfers at Montparnasse are literally the only time in my life I get to speak English to strangers and shop at Lush!
> 
> which may in fact belie your point…😂


You are lucky if you arrive at Montparnasse within 12 hours, or longer. But if you like being trapped on a train for many hours, so be it.


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## Physics Guy

Bevdeforges said:


> A big problem with recommending a particular town in France is that there are something like 35,000 towns in France, and to a certain extent, most folks aren't really familiar with all of the towns in their immediate area. And there are some really small towns located very close to larger towns (with shopping and other facilities you require) that may very well fill your needs better than being in the larger town. Really difficult to scope out without making a few reconnaissance visits.


Although for the same reason it is hard to plan a recon visit without narrowing down the possibilities. From this remove it is hard to get a feel for Rennes versus La Mans versus Nantes versus .... Certainly websites can help sometimes personal experience is better. Asking a similarly broad question looking for a similarly unicorn location for a move in the US in a US forum led to a great discussion with many people throwing out why they liked or why they chose their location. Much of it was opinion not fact but it at least provided a good counterpoint to the promotional hype that is so easy to find on the web. I had hoped for similar discussion here as a side conversation while I was digging through other websites. 🤷‍♂️


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## Moonge

Aix-en-Provence has the weather you are looking for. There is a nice bus station, train station and the TGV station and airport are within a half hour drive/bus ride. I know several people who live in the city center and do not own a car. Frankly, having a car makes life much easier. The beaches are also a half hour away with many calanques to explore year round. There are a lot of hiking trails in the surrounding areas. The whole area does get busier in summer with tourists but it’s livable, and it’s not dead in winter. It is more expensive than the areas you mentioned.


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## Bevdeforges

Physics Guy said:


> From this remove it is hard to get a feel for Rennes versus La Mans versus Nantes versus ....


I understand what you're saying (having lots of experience trying to make important decisions from afar). But people don't always have such a broad "choice" of where they are going to settle - in France or anywhere else. Lots of people are constrained by where they will be working or by the need to be close (in some sense) to family or friends or particular types of services or transportation.

I wound up settling where my husband lives. I would probably never recommend the town we live in, given the lack of public transit, difficult access (IMO) to Paris, overall "expense" of the area, etc. but all in all, I'm very content to be living here and over time I've found all sorts of things to appreciate in our area. There's no way I'd move anywhere else in France now because it has become "home."

With your preference for "cities" I would try to target maybe two or three of the larger towns - like maybe Rennes, Le Mans, and Nantes - and then explore the small towns on the periphery of your target "cities." That may be your best chance of getting the best of both worlds, with decent public transport to boot. Oh, and by the way, there has been some recent publicity in the press here about some survey of the "best towns for bicycling" in France. You might try searching for that online to get another perspective on potential areas to settle. (Just a note, there are a couple of towns nearby to where I live that have made the list - I'm a little skeptical of the rankings, but they are definitely lesser- known university towns and you do see plenty of bike riders on the roads there - so another source for ideas!)


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## Crabtree

Personally I would make a list of what you actually want your life to be like when you get to France Do you want culture plays cinema etc then look for a bigger town Do you want long walks easy access to the sea as you are into water sports? do you have any health concerns? Airports Railways etc? All of these are just a few factors to consider so you can make the right choice


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## bhamham

I had my sights set on Vannes to live when I came last Oct. I wanted to live in or near a mid-size city and I like the scenic beauty and climate of the gulf of Morbihan. However, it wasn't to be. I just couldn't find a house to rent after three months looking - eventually, I'll buy but I like to take my time and let a house find me if you know what I mean.
I hadn't considered Nantes but the more I researched the more I liked it. I found a house to rent that is about a 40 min bus ride to the city center and the TGV. I'm in a very suburban area, it's not some quaint cobblestone medieval village. No, my neighborhood strikes me as French people carrying on with normal life. Working, kids and school, DIY projects in the front gardens. I used to walk the sidewalks along the streets until I discovered there's a whole network of paths that go around back yards - it's great. Kiddie playgrounds and you get to see everyone's DIY projects in the back gardens.
It's easy to get to the countryside and there's a 15 min walk from my house to a lovely lake and about a 45 min walk down to the Loire. Very cycle friendly with a lot of paths and 30kph zones. I don't drive much about once a week.
Got all the amenities you'd ever hope to have - big mall Atlantis with IKEA and this monster Le Clerc. I get a bit freaked out when I go but it has been convenient setting up the house from nothing.
I've only been 2 months so really know nothing of the climate. Jan and Feb have been pretty mild with day time temps around 10C. Plenty of gray, dull days and some rain - but not as many I thought there would be. And a few days of brilliant sunshine. I lived in Birmingham UK for 7yrs and think it's more mild and sunnier here.
Anyway, I like living here and can't wait to explore more. I haven't done anything culturally entertaining like the opera or beer joints. I've not even seen a film but it's nice to know I can at some point. Nantes has football team in Ligue 1 - Les Canaris (b/c their jerseys are bright yellow I've been told) and they beat PSG last Sat - big news here!


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## bhamham

I will add that there are no ex-pats around or they've melted in with the social fabric. I've only heard English spoken once when I was at the monster Le Clerc. I feel that my French is growing and people kind of look at me as a novelty, like 'you really moved here from Texas?!' Yeaaa!


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## Physics Guy

bhamham said:


> I had my sights set on Vannes to live when I came last Oct. I wanted to live in or near a mid-size city and I like the scenic beauty and climate of the gulf of Morbihan. However, it wasn't to be. I just couldn't find a house to rent after three months looking - eventually, I'll buy but I like to take my time and let a house find me if you know what I mean.
> 
> I hadn't considered Nantes but the more I researched the more I liked it.


Thanks for the info. Your place in Nantes sounds like a good location. It is especially good to hear something about Nantes as it is a larger and, I believe, more industrial than the other towns/small cities that I have looked at. 

Vannes sounds good and is high on my list especially if I keep things to Brittany and Pays de Loire. Hiking is my thing not boating but there is nothing wrong with coastal walks. I haven't really looked to much at specific real estate as even my scouting trip can't be any earlier that this fall but a lack of available rental houses would be a downer.


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## Physics Guy

bhamham said:


> I will add that there are no ex-pats around or they've melted in with the social fabric. I've only heard English spoken once when I was at the monster Le Clerc. I feel that my French is growing and people kind of look at me as a novelty, like 'you really moved here from Texas?!' Yeaaa!


 I have to laugh at that since I occasionally hear English in the subway here in Seoul and I would expect the expat percentage is higher in Nantes.


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## BackinFrance

Angers may interest you, a bit more expensive but excellent for cycling and walking and a very attractive town.


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## Physics Guy

Crabtree said:


> Personally I would make a list of what you actually want your life to be like when you get to France


Asking what I see myself doing / how I see myself living is a reasonable question. I feel I have given much of the info earlier but I’ll try again with a slightly different twist. I apologize for being long winded. 

We tend to be homebodies and that will likely not change as I retire. Currently my wife doesn’t work and does a fair amount of walking, reading and quilting. Since I’m working she tends to combine doing our grocery shopping with walking via a backpack and small cart. In retirement we figured we’ll do more of this together or I’ll take over some of it. In Seoul we don’t have a car but in France we would expect to get one to do big grocery trips as well as the other trips like IKEA or a garden supply.

Prior to moving to Seoul I was active in high school robotics as a mentor and some silly engineering related to Maker Fairs. Covid has done a number of Maker Fairs and my apartment in Seoul is not conducive to noisy hobbies like running a CNC router but I plan on getting back into such things. Outside of that I also enjoy walking but I find that I am less likely to go unless I can be exploring someplace new or on an errand. My wife can be happy with a pleasant circuit that she does most every day but I tend to want variety or a specific purpose.

We are both into cooking and trying new foods. We don’t eat out much but we like having a variety of places within easy access leaning towards the brewpub/gastropub style (creperies, brasseries, and relais routier all fit the bill) but also Asian of all sorts. Maybe we are weird but a half hour car ride discourages us from going out. A half hour+ walk or combined walk and public transit doesn’t phase us. 

We both like day hikes, walking around to explore, and travel in general. Rambling around on the coast, through woods, along a canal or river or through interesting towns. While working we haven’t really gotten into hikes over multiple days because that type of hiking in the US tends to be backpacking and we’re over sleeping that rough. But we’ve started looking into the European long distance routes walking between towns and hope to do some of that. People seem to have taken my early reference to biking a little too much to heart. I enjoy biking but I’m not a long distance biker nor do I feel a need to bike. If a location is good for biking I might get back into doing some errands on a bike but it isn’t important to me for planning a location. We do like kayaking / canoeing but don’t want to structure our life around it.


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## Ricwolfe

bhamham said:


> I had my sights set on Vannes to live when I came last Oct. I wanted to live in or near a mid-size city and I like the scenic beauty and climate of the gulf of Morbihan. However, it wasn't to be. I just couldn't find a house to rent after three months looking - eventually, I'll buy but I like to take my time and let a house find me if you know what I mean.
> I hadn't considered Nantes but the more I researched the more I liked it. I found a house to rent that is about a 40 min bus ride to the city center and the TGV. I'm in a very suburban area, it's not some quaint cobblestone medieval village. No, my neighborhood strikes me as French people carrying on with normal life. Working, kids and school, DIY projects in the front gardens. I used to walk the sidewalks along the streets until I discovered there's a whole network of paths that go around back yards - it's great. Kiddie playgrounds and you get to see everyone's DIY projects in the back gardens.
> It's easy to get to the countryside and there's a 15 min walk from my house to a lovely lake and about a 45 min walk down to the Loire. Very cycle friendly with a lot of paths and 30kph zones. I don't drive much about once a week.
> Got all the amenities you'd ever hope to have - big mall Atlantis with IKEA and this monster Le Clerc. I get a bit freaked out when I go but it has been convenient setting up the house from nothing.
> I've only been 2 months so really know nothing of the climate. Jan and Feb have been pretty mild with day time temps around 10C. Plenty of gray, dull days and some rain - but not as many I thought there would be. And a few days of brilliant sunshine. I lived in Birmingham UK for 7yrs and think it's more mild and sunnier here.
> Anyway, I like living here and can't wait to explore more. I haven't done anything culturally entertaining like the opera or beer joints. I've not even seen a film but it's nice to know I can at some point. Nantes has football team in Ligue 1 - Les Canaris (b/c their jerseys are bright yellow I've been told) and they beat PSG last Sat - big news here!


Yeah I'd go with the armpit. Carnac down to la Roche lle. Anywhere desirable ain't cheap though unless you go inland at least 30 miles and then no public transport.


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## Bellthorpe

Physics Guy said:


> although it does not seem popular with expats


That's a plus, surely ?


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## phillyangevin

I spent a year in Lyon and fell in love. I suppose it's a big city (3rd largest in France), but it has neighborhoods that give it more of a small-town feel. The Croix-Rousse area where I lived is particularly charming, on a hill with incredible views of Mont Blanc. There are some blocks there as well that have rowhomes with small gardens available too.

Summers are especially fun with lots of free outdoor concerts featuring first class acts.


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## Physics Guy

Bellthorpe said:


> That's a plus, surely ?


Is it? As with many things I can see both sides. I've never desired to live with tons of other expats but we have found value in English language / expat groups in Seoul.

Plus, and really the reason I wrote that, I feel that the lack of expats in a region perhaps says something. Lorraine is a beautiful area. Do people avoid it because it is simple not outstanding in any one particular (not as cheap as X, not as warm as Y, not as good for water sports as Z, and so forth) or is there some actively bad reputation?


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## Bevdeforges

Physics Guy said:


> I feel that the lack of expats in a region perhaps says something.


I think you'll find it's more a matter of expats having different criteria for where they live than do the "natives" in just about any country. France is one of those countries where people feel a fierce loyalty to "their" region or area or even town and they will do whatever they can to remain there. The inheritance laws reinforce this and many families where the kids have moved on to Paris or other "big cities" will keep and maintain the family home out in the boonies as a vacation home to be shared by the various siblings. 

I guess it's one of the reasons that I always sort of marvel at folks who are scouring France for "where to live" - because for many folks (as for myself) there never was any real "choice" involved. You live close to where you work, and once the house is paid off there is little inclination to pick up and move elsewhere "for retirement."


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## Physics Guy

Bevdeforges said:


> I guess it's one of the reasons that I always sort of marvel at folks who are scouring France for "where to live" - because for many folks (as for myself) there never was any real "choice" involved. You live close to where you work, and once the house is paid off there is little inclination to pick up and move elsewhere "for retirement."


I can understand. Moving in retirement is the first time I have ever considered moving without the location being decided based on a job. I have a nearly paid off house but it is in an area where I have few solid ties because I moved to this area for work and the majority of the ties I had were either work related or connected to my children. The house is valuable of course but has no special appeal and is in a fairly dull location so there is no reason to hold on to it. 

At this point it seems silly not to consciously chose where I want to live. To some extent I think it is a very middle class US idea. We moved 4 times before I went off to college. The expectation was that the I and my siblings would scatter all over the country with our jobs. In the end we've all spent at least a few years working outside the US as well as moving around. My kids have moved away. Certainly there is appeal to being near my siblings or children but once it gets to be a 3 hour trip the actual separation distance or time starts being less important since we're not going to casually pop back and forth.


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## Bevdeforges

Physics Guy said:


> At this point it seems silly not to consciously chose where I want to live.


I'm not criticizing your decision here. Just that, particularly in France perhaps, you can't really say that the absence of expats in an area speaks to the desirability of the area for the locals. Most French people seem to stay close to home, or possibly to return back "home" (i.e. close to family) in retirement. Like you say, moving around all the time tends to be a US custom.


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## Physics Guy

No worries. I didn't take it as criticism. I just got off on a tangent!


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## boilerman

Temperatures are rising, everywhere, before lockdown, we had our hottest summer in Normandy than I can remember. So, personally the more north the better. Also, I would choose where I wanted to live and make transport work for me. A car being paramount IMO.

Good luck, it'll be great wherever you choose, but you already know that


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## ToutesDirections

Both walking and biking are great activities for lifelong health.

While considering where to move, you might check out this official, France-wide map of veloroutes and voies vertes. Many are off-street paths, often canal and river paths or rail trails. Sometimes they connect! There are many cities - including ones mentioned in this thread - that now have viable trail access into the city center. You could easily live in a town outside a city and get there via bike or foot. 

Something to look into, and good luck with your search. If you & your wife do explore some of the long-distance hiking trails, it would be fab to hear about it!


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## Physics Guy

ToutesDirections said:


> Something to look into, and good luck with your search. If you & your wife do explore some of the long-distance hiking trails, it would be fab to hear about it!


Yes. One of my reasons for thinking about a move to France is because of the walking trails. The US has great hiking but poor walking. I'm not that interested in backpacking for days and my wife is even less interested. But walking between villages and towns on routes where we can stay in a room at night looks terrific.

Thanks for the link


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## jweihl

I'd be remiss not to give a recommendation for my adopted city of Nîmes. While we don't have métro or tram system, the public transport here is decent for the size of the city. The city center is super walkable and affordable. At 150,000 it's small enough to be manageable, large enough to always have something going on. Music festival and férias centered on the roman arena. If you're into roman history, Nîmes is your town with les Arènes, la Tour Magne, Maison Carée, and Musée de la Romanité. Great train service on a busy TGV line (35 minutes by train to Montpellier, a little more to the beach. Over 300 days of sunny weather. It can be quite warm here in summer. There are enough English speakers in town to help out their neighbors when needed (we have a nice expat association with regular events), but it's by no means an expat enclave. I only hear english spoken in shops or on the street maybe once a week.


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## Yellowbelly3

ToutesDirections said:


> Both walking and biking are great activities for lifelong health.
> 
> While considering where to move, you might check out this official, France-wide map of veloroutes and voies vertes. Many are off-street paths, often canal and river paths or rail trails. Sometimes they connect! There are many cities - including ones mentioned in this thread - that now have viable trail access into the city center. You could easily live in a town outside a city and get there via bike or foot.
> 
> Something to look into, and good luck with your search. If you & your wife do explore some of the long-distance hiking trails, it would be fab to hear about it!


Thank you! That's a very helpful tip about the cycle paths and routes information. We are just about to set off from the UK to France also for a scouting trip, going up through the Gironde, Poitou-charente, Brittany, and Normandy, taking cycles and a mobility scooter (only just found out I need 3rd party liability insurance cover to go on French cycle paths with it). Does anyone have anything to say about the Ruffec - Confolens area? And how do we find out up to date crime statistics for towns, and areas, anyone know, please? In the UK we can access monthly data from police, including broken down by type of crime, and street. It would be helpful when looking at possible French towns to retire to.


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## ccm47

YB I don't think the police system reports in the same way as in the UK. For a start a fair number of roads do not yet have names if they are out in the country, the same postcodes cover a town plus all of its satellite villages, and the police are also divided into gendarmes, police municipale, police nationale etc. Thus programming one detailed single database for publication would be a nightmare as there are too many variables. The press also does not generally go in for naming and destroying reputations before someone is possibly proven innocent. They then have a different code for after trial reporting.

Communities do tend to have a social media presence where residents can be alerted to suspicious activities, this week for example we had "Movano van" one day, and the next the report of an attempted break in. Look for "Commune de...... or Groupe de.….." and you might strike lucky. Gendarmerie groups are by département.

One way we found for ruling out certain areas of a town was to look at the parked vehicles: if a significant number had out of date insurance or Contrôle Technique (MOT ) stickers then move on as the locals clearly had problems respecting legislation and the town police may have had more demanding things to do with their time. Obviously our technique wouldn't work in a pedestrian area but in a gated community at lunchtime,.........


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## Bevdeforges

ccm47 said:


> the same postcodes cover a town plus all of its satellite villages, and the police are also divided into gendarmes, police municipale, police nationale etc.


Let me add one more caveat to this. In some parts of the country, a single postal code can cover multiple towns. I know whenever I enter my post code into the blank on an Internet form, I'm presented with a listing of 5 or 6 towns to choose among. And those 5 or 6 towns cover a pretty good sized chunk of territory.

The French are also not so open with their statistics, especially crime statistics, as some other countries are. Officially INSEE is the national statistical organization, but stats may be available only on a somewhat delayed basis there. But for most "statistics sites" that's often where they pick up their numbers for further crunching. There are various regional newspapers, and I recently found a site that seems to collect the significant news from a whole range of local and regional news source Actu : toute l'information locale et nationale en direct that might be useful in terms of scanning for news stories in the areas you are considering.


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## ToutesDirections

After a recent trip to the Drôme departement, happy to report that both Montélimar and Valence are bike-friendly. You could live in either one and use a car only occasionally for the exceptional trip. Or you could live in a nearby village and use a bike or e-bike to get into these cities for the purpose of errands or transit connections. Valence in particular has gone full-on vélo, with public bike lockers, repair stations, etc. (including the unfortunate damage that often follows these installations).

For Montélimar, there is the voie verte along the river Jabron, extending 15 kilometers east and connecting into the city center. There is also the D4 road as an alternative from the south-east, quiet enough for comfortable cycling and then with a marked bike lane for the last few clicks into town. 

For Valence, there is a minor ring road with a cycle path, leading to off-street paths that circumvent major car arterials and direct you either south-east out of the city, or south along a busy industrial corridor. In this last case I was shocked to see an actual two-way protected cycle path, very useful for errands and commuting. 

These are two examples, but as France has been focusing on non-motorized infrastructure and allocating funds over decades, there are no doubt more. It would be great to hear from any forum folks who live in places where it's possible to not have a car.


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