# Spain as a base in Europe



## Billt4sf (Nov 20, 2016)

Hello.

My wife and I are retired and we are considering using Spain as a base to visit in Europe for several years. In a perfect situation we would have a multiple-entry visa that allows us to be in Spain or out of Spain in Europe (Schengen areas) for up to a year at a time.

I have heard about the non-lucrative visa (we are not rich, but we don't need to work), but does it require that you have temporary residence or permanent residence, and therefore is it required to stay in Spain a number of days each year, and if so, how many?

Maybe a better question is whether we should find an immigration lawyer for Spain and hw would we do that? Our home is usually in San Francisco.

Thanks,

Bill & Emily


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You'd require a place to live but you won't be required to actually be there. That means you'll be paying rent and utilities even if you aren't home.

I wouldn't worry about a lawyer at this point. Start with the Spanish consulate that serves your area. 

Schedule an Appointment


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Billt4sf said:


> Maybe a better question is whether we should find an immigration lawyer for Spain and hw would we do that? Our home is usually in San Francisco.


Many European countries don't really require (or encourage) the use of immigration lawyers. I know here in France, the fact of having an immigration lawyer representing you is kind of taken as evidence that you have "something fishy" in your application.

If you establish residence in Spain, you'll be expected to be "tax resident" - i.e. to pay local taxes and at least declare your worldwide revenues to Spain. No biggie, since US citizens living overseas are still considered "tax resident" in the US anyhow - but there are a certain number of hoops to jump through when filing US taxes from overseas. 

You'll also have to meet Spanish requirements for health insurance and such. And, don't forget that as foreigners resident in Spain, your visits to Schengen countries are limited to 90 days in any rolling 180 day period. You'll be expected to maintain a home in Spain, as well as driving licenses, bank accounts, etc. Plenty to see and do in Spain, though, so definitely not wasted time.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes, I agree with both other members. 

There's no need at all to use an immigration lawyer in order to secure a resident visa for Spain. 

Simply contact your nearest Spanish Consulate & they will tell you the exact requirements.


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## Billt4sf (Nov 20, 2016)

Thank you.

The primary question we have is:



Billt4sf said:


> does a non-lucrative visa require that you have temporary residence or permanent residence, and therefore is it required to stay in Spain a number of days each year, and if so, how many?


Thanks,

Bill


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Any sort of visa that is valid for more than 90 days requires you to maintain residence in Spain for the term of the visa (usually one year at a time, with or without renewal possibilities). They aren't going to check on how many days you spend in Spain vs. elsewhere - they will just assume that you are maintaining your primary residence there (and may require that you register as a foreigner so that you can be contacted at that address, if necessary).

You can certainly visit other Schengen countries on a long-stay visa - but the limit of 90 days in any rolling 180 period applies. Your primary residence during your visits to other Schengen countries is still considered to be in Spain (for tax or other "legal" purposes). If you want to visit places outside the Schengen area, then you'll have to meet their visa requirements.


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## Billt4sf (Nov 20, 2016)

Bevdeforges said:


> Any sort of visa that is valid for more than 90 days requires you to maintain residence in Spain for the term of the visa (usually one year at a time, with or without renewal possibilities). They aren't going to check on how many days you spend in Spain vs. elsewhere - they will just assume that you are maintaining your primary residence there (and may require that you register as a foreigner so that you can be contacted at that address, if necessary).
> 
> You can certainly visit other Schengen countries on a long-stay visa - but the limit of 90 days in any rolling 180 period applies. Your primary residence during your visits to other Schengen countries is still considered to be in Spain (for tax or other "legal" purposes). If you want to visit places outside the Schengen area, then you'll have to meet their visa requirements.


Thanks, Bev...

That is exactly the info I was looking for.

Do you know of France has the same type of requirements? (You are listed as a French expat).

Thanks, again!

- Bill


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You're overthinking this.

You could spend

Jan,Feb and March in a Schengen country on your ninety days
Then spend July,August and most of September.

IIRC the UK and Ireland allow you six months.

There are still some non Schengen countries in Europe to fill up any remaining days.

All the above assumes you have no interest in Spain.  

If you aren't interested in Spain pick a Schengen country that appeals to you. Then you can just do shorter trips out of it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Actually they can & do check how much time you spend in Spain. You would be expected to live here, & actually be here for at least a total of half the year. 

You are definitely required to register here. The visa gives you the right to live here, but once here you have a limited period of time in which to apply for a TIE. Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero - a foreigner's ID card.


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## Billt4sf (Nov 20, 2016)

xabiaxica said:


> Actually they can & do check how much time you spend in Spain. You would be expected to live here, & actually be here for at least a total of half the year.
> 
> You are definitely required to register here. The visa gives you the right to live here, but once here you have a limited period of time in which to apply for a TIE. Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero - a foreigner's ID card.



Ahhh...so conflicting information to what a previous responder said. I expect that if I ask two people at the SF Consulate, we will get at least two different answers as well. 


Oh, well. I am not surprised, actually. We may have to resort to a 90-day Schengen visa, which is not our preference for various reasons but it (the unclear situation) is what it is. 

Thank you, all.

- Bill & Emily


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Billt4sf said:


> Ahhh...so conflicting information to what a previous responder said. I expect that if I ask two people at the SF Consulate, we will get at least two different answers as well.
> 
> 
> Oh, well. I am not surprised, actually. We may have to resort to a 90-day Schengen visa, which is not our preference for various reasons but it (the unclear situation) is what it is.
> ...


Yes definitely check at the Consulate. 

What is the case in one EU country when it comes to non-EU citizens, is not the same as in other EU countries. Each country has its own rules. What happens in Italy or France has no bearing upon what happens here in Spain.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I wouldn't ask the consulate. If you tell the consulate you want to spend 12 months elsewhere they'll tell you to apply elsewhere.

You need to do basically everything xabiaxica posted here in Italy but nobody is going to notice nor care if you're sleeping in your own bed . Technically you need to renounce residence once you move out of the country. Merely crossing the border doesn't make a difference. You remain residence until you file the paperwork to renounce. 

But there must be one country you have more interest in. Apply there.


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

After one year, when I needed to renew my visa, part of the procedure is to copy every page of your passport. I am assuming that they are looking for how long you are out of the country, and therefore not a resident.
When I was reading the original question, I was thinking about this renewal and how slow it is. My visa expired in December of last year. Without an up to date visa I’m not going to travel anywhere. I might be denied entry back into the country. Happened to someone I know and they only traveled to France. I know I can get an authorization to travel but I have several trips planned for next year. Article about the authorization:
https://www.citylifemadrid.com/travelling-while-your-nietie-is-renewing/
So, my advice: don’t plan on traveling between visa renewals. Use that time to explore Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Ifn said:


> *After one year, when I needed to renew my visa, part of the procedure is to copy every page of your passport. I am assuming that they are looking for how long you are out of the country, and therefore not a resident.*
> When I was reading the original question, I was thinking about this renewal and how slow it is. My visa expired in December of last year. Without an up to date visa I’m not going to travel anywhere. I might be denied entry back into the country. Happened to someone I know and they only traveled to France. I know I can get an authorization to travel but I have several trips planned for next year. Article about the authorization:
> https://www.citylifemadrid.com/travelling-while-your-nietie-is-renewing/
> So, my advice: don’t plan on traveling between visa renewals. Use that time to explore Spain.


Yes, that's exactly why they do it.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Billt4sf said:


> Thanks, Bev...
> 
> That is exactly the info I was looking for.
> 
> ...


Basically, that's how it works in France. If you're on a "long-stay visa" (i.e. any visa valid for more than 90 days) then you are presumed resident in France, with all the obligations of legal residence - health insurance, taxes, maintaining a stable address where you can be contacted for "official" reasons, etc.

If you go the Schengen visa route, then you're good for up to 90 days at a time in the Schengen zone, with no "residence" requirements. But, be aware of the "90 days in any rolling 180 day period" thing. You can't just nip across the border to the UK, or back to the US to re-start your visa (and it's a tourist visa). If you spend the full 90 days in Schengen, you have to leave for 90 days to start the clock over.


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