# French State Pension At 62 English State Pension at 66



## Peter 60

Hello All,

Thank you very much for letting me post on your Forum.

I'm 62 and thinking of claiming my very low French State Pension ( only 44 trimestrielles: so, about 80 pcm. )

The rest of my credits are in UK ( enough ) But that doesn't kick in until you're 66, I believe.

I am trying to contact UK Pension Service ( sent registered letter etc ) but they are not interested in even acknowledging letters ( it was miles better before 2016 ) Not least because my Caisse needs the information. 

My question is what do you do when the UK Pension Office refuses to acknowledge you ( Maybe if I was 66 )

Do you go to the Embassy? Is there still a MP representing Brits abroad? Would the Queen be interested?

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## Clic Clac

66 if you're lucky. Mine will be nearer 67, and if you are aged 60 then you will be the same.


Your French pension sounds very low. I was quoted about 70€/month but I only have a few trims. About 19, I think.
My monthly figure will double if I leave it the extra 5 years until I'm 67.
But then I wouldn't be 'in front' with the extra payments until I'm 72 and with inflation rocketing that will probably end up being 75.

Have you tried phoning the International Pensions Centre? State Pension : *Telephone: +44 (0) 191 218 7777*


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## Peter 60

Clic Clac said:


> 66 if you're lucky. Mine will be nearer 67, and if you are aged 60 then you will be the same.
> 
> 
> Your French pension sounds very low. I was quoted about 70€/month but I only have a few trims. About 19, I think.
> My monthly figure will double if I leave it the extra 5 years until I'm 67.
> But then I wouldn't be 'in front' with the extra payments until I'm 72 and with inflation rocketing that will probably end up being 75.
> 
> Have you tried phoning the International Pensions Centre? State Pension : *Telephone: +44 (0) 191 218 7777*


Thank you. Yes, of course,


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## conky2

Coincidentally Peter Bowles died today............


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## SPGW

From what I understand, it’s the age in the country where you are retiring that counts.

Contact your CNAV to ask to simulate purchase of missing trimestres in your employment history ( there’s an option for this on their website), ideally a year or so before planned retirement.
CNAV sends a form for you to justify missing periods.
CNAV then contacts HMRC who sends forms via CNAV, for you to declare UK periods of employment.
CNAV updates your career record with HMRC’s info. « Activité Royaume Uni » will appear for relevant periods, with trimestres credited in your revised French career history (15 months later for me).
CNAV indicates how much it would cost to purchase missing trimestres, if any, but there’s no obligation ( and it probably isn’t worth it in most cases) but at least your UK time has been officially transferred to your French state pension ‘account’.

The UK retirement age becomes irrelevant if you are not retiring there. At least, this is my experience.


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## tardigrade

SPGW said:


> The UK retirement age becomes irrelevant if you are not retiring there. *At least, this is my experience.*


before or after brexit? Does Brexit matter for this or is it something that was agreed upon in the withdrawal agreement?


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## ccm47

Re: your MP. MPs automatic responses to emails say that they will only deal with letters from constituents. Therefore you contact the person representing your last UK address. You have to supply them with your full name and the old address as well as your email. Theoretically somebody could then check that out, but I doubt if they do.


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## Franco-Belgian Brit

It all depends on the various treaties between countries.

I retired in Belgium last year (aged 65). My UK pension kicks in this year in August.

Due to an agreement between the two countries (nothing to do with the EU, apparently), the Belgian pension office is going to liaise with the UK and get the UK pension integrated into the Belgian one (same the year after with my small NL pension).

Mind you, I'll wait to see if it actually happens!


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## Bevdeforges

SPGW said:


> From what I understand, it’s the age in the country where you are retiring that counts.


That wasn't the case when I retired - and the retirement ages were all different in the three countries I'm currently drawing pensions from. (France and one non-EU country plus one EU neighbor) But the French are normally supposed to contact you at some point before you hit the French retirement age in order to do a sort of pre-retirement estimate, which includes your "filling in your employment history" for years worked outside of France. (I think they then confirm that with the appropriate country's pension system.) Ultimately, you wind up applying separately for each country's pension when you hit the appropriate age in each country, but they do seem to take into account the years you worked in total, not just the years in country. And they do seem to contact the foreign pension services when doing that preliminary estimate thing. (I heard from both "other" countries at the time and we all got kind of confused. <g>)

And just a note: there is a limit on how many years of credit you can purchase to bring yourself up to the 40 (or 42) years mark.


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## SPGW

Yes, as FBB says - it depends on agreements between countries, nothing to do with EU.
And agreed Bev, the CNAV contact you so you can "fill in" the gaps in their history of your career, or you can trigger the process, as I described, and CNAV liases with the other country's scheme. Years worked in the US also "count" btw.
The limit for purchase is 12 trimestres (at least, it was for me, maybe it differs depending on situation). The advantage of this process (and I forgot to mention the pack of _justicatifs_ that obviously has to be submitted, as descibed in the downloadable CNAV form), is that you avoid the need to contact each individual country pension scheme, at different dates, and receive funds in various countries/currencies.
That's the theory anyway.


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## tardigrade

SPGW said:


> Yes, as FBB says - it depends on agreements between countries, nothing to do with EU.
> And agreed Bev, the CNAV contact you so you can "fill in" the gaps in their history of your career, or you can trigger the process, as I described, and CNAV liases with the other country's scheme. Years worked in the US also "count" btw.
> The limit for purchase is 12 trimestres (at least, it was for me, maybe it differs depending on situation). The advantage of this process (and I forgot to mention the pack of _justicatifs_ that obviously has to be submitted, as descibed in the downloadable CNAV form), is that you avoid the need to contact each individual country pension scheme, at different dates, and receive funds in various countries/currencies.
> That's the theory anyway.


12 trimestres per country or in total?


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## Bevdeforges

tardigrade said:


> 12 trimestres per country or in total?


Not all countries allow you to buy trimestres - and those that do may have different limits.


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## conky2

I nteresting. I am probably being very dim witted here, but I received the mail the other day for the French pre-retirement estimate. On the basis that I have never lifted a finger in anger here I have always assumed that I am not eligible for any form of French pension, although I will be claiming my UK state pension from Oct next year.

Do I have to do this French pre-retirement estimate thingy ?


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## SPGW

Nah, no-one has to do it. if you’ve never worked in Fr, and so, not contributed, hard to see how you would be in the system, or maybe having a carte vitale and Sec Soc number automatically triggers the pension notifications, with zero trimestres?


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## BackinFrance

SPGW said:


> Nah, no-one has to do it. if you’ve never worked in Fr, and so, not contributed, hard to see how you would be in the system, or maybe having a carte vitale and Sec Soc number automatically triggers the pension notifications, with zero trimestres?


I thought Conky2 had worked in France teaching English, though I could be mistaken. If he has, then he has paid into the system and could claim a pension if he wishes, even though it might be a tiny amount.


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## BackinFrance

I don't believe just having a carte vitale triggers a notification.


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## conky2

BackinFrance said:


> I thought Conky2 had worked in France teaching English, though I could be mistaken. If he has, then he has paid into the system and could claim a pension if he wishes, even though it might be a tiny amount.


I taught English 'gratis' BiF . It was the Maire's daughter primarily for about eighteen months, and I didn't want to go charging cash if she then failed her exams ! Fortunately she passed and I received a carton of vouvray......

Like SPGW if it is not my social security number that triggers it then I don't know what does....my tax returns ?


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## Bevdeforges

They use the sécu number for identification in the retirement system, so that could very well be the trigger. OTOH, if your ex has or can claim a French pension, they may need to know what your status is just in case you wind up eligible for a pension of reversion based on hers. (Only here, she has to die before you'd get anything based on her pension - and it's only something like half or less of whatever she is/was collecting.)


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## BackinFrance

OK, I don't remember because I worked beyond my retirement date anyway and that was a long time ago.


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## Peter 60

SPGW said:


> From what I understand, it’s the age in the country where you are retiring that counts.
> 
> Contact your CNAV to ask to simulate purchase of missing trimestres in your employment history ( there’s an option for this on their website), ideally a year or so before planned retirement.
> CNAV sends a form for you to justify missing periods.
> CNAV then contacts HMRC who sends forms via CNAV, for you to declare UK periods of employment.
> CNAV updates your career record with HMRC’s info. « Activité Royaume Uni » will appear for relevant periods, with trimestres credited in your revised French career history (15 months later for me).
> CNAV indicates how much it would cost to purchase missing trimestres, if any, but there’s no obligation ( and it probably isn’t worth it in most cases) but at least your UK time has been officially transferred to your French state pension ‘account’.
> 
> The UK retirement age becomes irrelevant if you are not retiring there. At least, this is my experience.


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## Peter 60

This is really interesting and relevant info. Thank you so much for your time posting. I will get on the case next week.


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## EuroTrash

Can I jump onto the tail end of this one please.
I reach UK state pension age this summer.
I'm not planning on stopping working completely just yet.
As I understand it the UK doesn't give a hoot whether you carry on working or not, when you reach pension age you can claim your pension.
Whereas in France, cumulating earned income with a pension seems quite complicated.
Was I being naive in thinking I could claim my UK pension this summer without having to fill in any forms for France, and then claim my French pension when I actually do stop work, maybe next year or the year after?


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## SPGW

I don’t think there’s any problem with your plan ET. You can claim the uk pension without any form-filling in France ( the process I described is only an option). If you’re resident in Fr though, the uk pension will be part of taxable income, obviously. I also think it’s quite common in Fr to continue receiving an income along with a pension.


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## Poloss

Peter 60 said:


> I'm 62 and thinking of claiming my very low French State Pension
> 
> The rest of my credits are in UK ( enough )
> 
> I am trying to contact UK Pension Service ( sent registered letter etc ) but they are not interested in even acknowledging letters ( it was miles better before 2016 ) Not least because my Caisse needs the information.
> 
> My question is what do you do when the UK Pension Office refuses to acknowledge you ( Maybe if I was 66 )
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice!


Hi Peter, when the French Assurance Retraite CARSAT sent me a questionnaire about my career,
asking if I had worked elsewhere in the world, I gave them copies of my UK National Insurance record,
with career history and contributions paid.
I transcribed that onto their specific formula and they had no problem assimilating all that.

I had a rendez vous with Carsat and they told me that I'd have to decide if I wanted France or the UK to pay
the part of my pension due to NI contributions
- only when I applied for my French pension, ie 6 months before my retirement age

I think that you're barking up the wrong tree asking the UK pensions office for info.
try here: Check your National Insurance record


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## Peter 60

Poloss said:


> Hi Peter, when the French Assurance Retraite CARSAT sent me a questionnaire about my career,
> asking if I had worked elsewhere in the world, I gave them copies of my UK National Insurance record,
> with career history and contributions paid.
> I transcribed that onto their specific formula and they had no problem assimilating all that.
> 
> I had a rendez vous with Carsat and they told me that I'd have to decide if I wanted France or the UK to pay
> the part of my pension due to NI contributions
> - only when I applied for my French pension, ie 6 months before my retirement age
> 
> I think that you're barking up the wrong tree asking the UK pensions office for info.
> try here: Check your National Insurance record


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## Peter 60

Oh Thanks Poloss, that's really interesting. It sounds right, too. Twelve years ago UK Pensions sent me a provisional Pension Forecast based on my Contributions in the UK (their second) So, I thought, seeing as they had the information and had made the calculations themselves they were the route to go down. Will click the link tomorrow. Thanks again for the helpful reply. I must say this forum has been marvellous and full of helpful people!


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## Peter 60

SPGW said:


> From what I understand, it’s the age in the country where you are retiring that counts.
> 
> Contact your CNAV to ask to simulate purchase of missing trimestres in your employment history ( there’s an option for this on their website), ideally a year or so before planned retirement.
> CNAV sends a form for you to justify missing periods.
> CNAV then contacts HMRC who sends forms via CNAV, for you to declare UK periods of employment.
> CNAV updates your career record with HMRC’s info. « Activité Royaume Uni » will appear for relevant periods, with trimestres credited in your revised French career history (15 months later for me).
> CNAV indicates how much it would cost to purchase missing trimestres, if any, but there’s no obligation ( and it probably isn’t worth it in most cases) but at least your UK time has been officially transferred to your French state pension ‘account’.
> 
> The UK retirement age becomes irrelevant if you are not retiring there. At least, this is my experience.


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## Peter 60

Sorry, where is the option on INFO RETRAITE website to stimulate a demand for the Caisse to contact UK?

I can't find it.  

( I tried setting all this in motion 14 months ago. Looking back over the contradictory and just wrong information UK Pensions have given is just incredible )


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## SPGW

I can't open the site today ("erreur technique") to find the form, but here's what I received/saved in Jan 2020:

"Les formulaires de demande d'évaluation de rachat sont disponibles :
• dans le service "Simuler le coût d'un rachat de trimestres", à l'issue de votre simulation ;
• sur le site de l'Assurance retraite, espace Actif/Salarié, rubrique Mes démarches > Formulaires à
télécharger > Vous souhaitez compléter votre durée d'assurance."

hope it is still relevant.


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## Peter 60

Poloss said:


> Hi Peter, when the French Assurance Retraite CARSAT sent me a questionnaire about my career,
> asking if I had worked elsewhere in the world, I gave them copies of my UK National Insurance record,
> with career history and contributions paid.
> I transcribed that onto their specific formula and they had no problem assimilating all that.
> 
> I had a rendez vous with Carsat and they told me that I'd have to decide if I wanted France or the UK to pay
> the part of my pension due to NI contributions
> - only when I applied for my French pension, ie 6 months before my retirement age
> 
> 
> SPGW said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't open the site today ("erreur technique") to find the form, but here's what I received/saved in Jan 2020:
> 
> "Les formulaires de demande d'évaluation de rachat sont disponibles :
> • dans le service "Simuler le coût d'un rachat de trimestres", à l'issue de votre simulation ;
> • sur le site de l'Assurance retraite, espace Actif/Salarié, rubrique Mes démarches > Formulaires à
> télécharger > Vous souhaitez compléter votre durée d'assurance."
> 
> hope it is still relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you're barking up the wrong tree asking the UK pensions office for info.
> try here: Check your National Insurance record
> [/QUOTE
Click to expand...


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## Peter 60

Thanks again!

I think I've found it! It's in a section tucked away called Periods Abroad and I've given them the address for HMC National Insurance Contributiions.

I am still boiling with anger frankly that my Caisse, but much more the UK, didn't telll me this 14 months ago despite trying and trying and trying to get the relevant info. I would have been retired by now. . I've had to rely on the good folk on this forum. 

xx


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## Franco-Belgian Brit

Peter 60 said:


> Thanks again!
> 
> I think I've found it! It's in a section tucked away called Periods Abroad and I've given them the address for HMC National Insurance Contributiions.
> 
> I am still boiling with anger frankly that my Caisse, but much more the UK, didn't telll me this 14 months ago despite trying and trying and trying to get the relevant info. I would have been retired by now. . I've had to rely on the good folk on this forum.
> 
> xx


I think part of the problem is that 14 months ago, no-one really knew the ins and outs of the Brexit fallout (probably still not 100%),

It's all about merde and ventilateurs.


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