# Human Rights under more threat?



## MaidenScotland

Egyptian security forces have launched raids on a series of high-profile human rights and pro-democracy organisations based in Cairo, including the US National Democratic Institute, founded by former secretary of state Madeleine Albright, and the International Republican Institute.

During the raids riot police confined staff to their offices and forbid them from making phone calls. Seventeen Egyptian and international groups were targeted as part of a widespread investigation into foreign funding of Egyptian civic society groups.

The raids on NDI and IRI, however, both of which have received US state department funding for their operations, are likely to cause friction with the US government, which underwrites military aid to Egypt to the sum of $1.3bn (£843m) annually.

In recent months, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces has accused local non-governmental organisations of receiving money from abroad, and has argued that the recent unrest in the country is by "foreign hands".

Hana el-Hattab, an NDI staffer trapped inside her office, tweeted: "We're literally locked in. I really have no idea why they are holding us inside and confiscating our personal laptops."

In other tweets she wrote: "I was on the balcony, dude with machine gun came up and told us to go in and locked it … we asked if they had a search warrant, they said the person who issues warrants is in building & doesn't need to issue one for himself. They're even taking history books from people's bags."

Heba Morayef, who works with Human Rights Watch in Egypt, said she had received a message from an NDI staffer confirming they had been confined inside their offices by riot police. Images posted on Twitter showed armed police in body armour stationed outside.

The official Mena news agency said the 17 "civil society organisations" had been targeted as part of an investigation into foreign funding of such groups.

"The public prosecutor has searched 17 civil society organisations, local and foreign, as part of the foreign funding case," the agency cited the prosecutor's office as saying. "The search is based on evidence showing violation of Egyptian laws, including not having permits."

Security forces, both uniformed and plainclothes, forced their way into the offices where employees were informed that they were under investigation by the public prosecutor. According to witnesses, laptops and other documents were also seized during the raids.

The IRI put out a statement saying it was "dismayed and disappointed by these actions. IRI has been working with Egyptians since 2005; it is ironic that even during the Mubarak era IRI was not subjected to such aggressive action.

"Today's raid is confusing given that IRI was officially invited by the government of Egypt to witness the people's assembly elections, and was in the process of deploying a high level international delegation to observe the third phase of elections on January 3 and 4, having successfully deployed witnesses for phases one and two.

"IRI has worked with Egyptian political parties and civil society to share technical skills and provide information about democratic participation. IRI does not provide monetary or material support to political parties or civil society groups in Egypt."

The raids follow a far-reaching investigation into the foreign funding of human rights and civic advocacy groups launched under the aegis of the country's ruling generals earlier this year.

Ironically, the law being used to pursue the groups is one from the era of former president Hosni Mubarak, which the government had said it intended to repeal.

During the Mubarak era, groups such as NDI and IRI and others had existed in a grey area, unable to obtain permission to operate in full legal compliance.

Other groups reportedly raided, say activists, include the Konrad Adenauer-Stiftung, which supports political dialogue, Freedom House and the Egyptian Public Budget Observatory.

Morayef condemned the raids, and the investigation that led to them, as "entirely inappropriate" adding: "This is part of a wider crackdown on civil society groups in Egypt using Mubarak-era laws. They are using these pre-revolution laws as a broadbrush investigation that could result in wholesale shutting down of human rights and other groups that have been at the forefront of criticism of the army.

"This is very selective and really, really serious. It has huge potential implications for human rights in Egypt."

The Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies said: "The NDI, IRI and Freedom House have been previously investigated by the ministry of justice on charges of receiving foreign funding, while the Arab Centre for the Independence of Justice and Legal Professions has not been yet investigated."

The army has pledged to step aside by mid-2012. "In Mubarak's time the government never dared to do such a thing," said prominent human rights activist Negad el-Bourai on his Twitter account.

Political experts said the groups raided have taken a neutral political stance, focusing on fostering democracy in Egypt by training members of nascent parties. "The National Democratic Institute has been training new parties … in how to participate in elections," a leading member of a liberal party said on condition of anonymity. "This has been with the full knowledge of authorities and was not clandestin


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## MaidenScotland

Photo of riot police who turned up for this raid


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## CatMandoo

Cairo (CNN) -- Egyptian authorities have agreed to return all the equipment and documents seized during a series of raids this week of nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), the U.S. State Department said Friday.

Egypt's military government told U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson that, in addition to returning everything, the military would end the raids, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said.

Egypt's leaders said the organizations will be able to return to normal operations and they promised a transparent dialogue to examine the underlying issues behind the raids, she said.

On Friday, in a telephone conversation with Egyptian Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta "conveyed his appreciation for Field Marshal Tantawi's prompt decision to halt the raids, and to take steps that will make it easier for NGOs to operate in Egypt," said Pentagon press secretary George Little, in a statement.

A senior U.S. official told CNN that Panetta "conveyed in no uncertain terms his concerns about the attacks on the NGOs" during the 25-minute conversation. The official, who declined to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the discussions, said "everyone's eyes are wide open" on what is going on in Egypt.

Referring to the recent violence that has wracked the country, the official said, "None of this is acceptable," but "some of it has to be expected" given the state of affairs inside the country.

Asked if U.S. aid to Egypt might be cut, the official said that would be a foreign policy decision made by the White House, and not a U.S. military decision.

Egyptian police on Thursday carried out 17 raids on the offices of 10 nongovernmental organizations across the country, but offered no clear explanation.

"We asked them if there was something specific we could help them find," Julie Hughes, Egypt country director for the National Democratic Institute (NDI), told CNN Friday. "They refused to answer."

Two other U.S.-based agencies, Freedom House and the International Republican Institute (IRI), also were raided.

Police took laptops, desktops, video conferencing equipment, cell phones and other electronics, and 15 to 20 boxes of documents, Hughes said.

The actions were part of an investigation into allegations that groups may have received illegal foreign funding and have been operating without licenses from the Foreign Ministry and local ministries, said Adel Saeed, spokesman for the general prosecutor's office.

But the leaders of the U.S.-based organizations were not persuaded. "I don't know that we fully understand what is behind this," Hughes said.

Egypt has been ruled by the military since the ouster of former President Hosni Mubarak in February. It has begun parliamentary elections, with Islamist parties -- particularly the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party and the Al Noor Salafi Movement -- prevailing in the elections so far.

Representatives of NDI and IRI, which promote democratic institutions, observed Egypt's parliamentary elections. Both groups receive funding from U.S. government agencies and are non-partisan, though they are affiliated loosely with the major American political parties.

"Transitions are hard, and we are hopeful that this is not a sign of things to come," Hughes said.

David Kramer, the president of Freedom House, called the crackdown "an escalation of repression unheard of even during the Mubarak regime."


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## hubbly_bubbly




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## MaidenScotland

How can an army that is funded from overseas complain about organisations receiving overseas donations?


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## Eco-Mariner

_"Oooops"_ say SCAF... _"I'm sorry, we didn't mean to do that" _while documenting all the evidence from the raids. _"We promise not to do it again"_ say the Egyptian Authorities walking the tightrope, knowing their $1.3 billion of arms aid (fiddles) could be lost if they tried again.

It's too late for the new democracy I'm afraid, your private network has been infiltrated and the damage is beyond repair. These deviants knew what they were doing.... These fascists know exactly how to cover their backs but whatever the outcome, Egyptian citizens will never trust the clever military leaders ever again.

If the US let this go and continue to aid this military, I see the public US/Egypt relationship turning into another disaster, opening another loophole for fundementalists to exploit.


Eco-Mariner.


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## hubbly_bubbly

After just finalising and leaving the Middle East after 10 years, and writing on New Year's Eve/Day too which is sad I know, and pissed as a publican's dream (apologies...) I fear deeply that certain parts of the ME are going to self-combust throughout 2012.

I hope I am wrong but it doesn't look good for Egypt, Syria (therefore Lebanon too, then Israel) Libya, potentially Gaza/Israel (again) and the knock-on effects of all these implosions. And not to forget Iran either.

Interesting times are ahead. Definitely.

And to add... Happy New Year to you all and best wishes to Maiden and forum members for moderating and subscribing to a far more politically and socially rewarding forum than the other ME forums. You guys are definitely the most "switched-on" expats on EF, not least because of what happened in Cairo/Egypt.

Anyway. Just my two cents. Crashing now.


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## MaidenScotland

hubbly_bubbly said:


> After just finalising and leaving the Middle East after 10 years, and writing on New Year's Eve/Day too which is sad I know, and pissed as a publican's dream (apologies...) I fear deeply that certain parts of the ME are going to self-combust throughout 2012.
> 
> I hope I am wrong but it doesn't look good for Egypt, Syria (therefore Lebanon too, then Israel) Libya, potentially Gaza/Israel (again) and the knock-on effects of all these implosions. And not to forget Iran either.
> 
> Interesting times are ahead. Definitely.
> 
> And to add... Happy New Year to you all and best wishes to Maiden and forum members for moderating and subscribing to a far more politically and socially rewarding forum than the other ME forums. You guys are definitely the most "switched-on" expats on EF, not least because of what happened in Cairo/Egypt.
> 
> Anyway. Just my two cents. Crashing now.




Sadly I think your prediction will prove to be accurate.
I have no idea what the solution is to the ME running around like a headless chicken blaming everyone and everything for their own failings.

Last night someone said to me... The middle east population has no compassion for his neighbour.


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## MaidenScotland

Egypt has reassured the US that it will stop raids on the offices of non-governmental organisations (NGOs), the US state department says.

Officials said property seized in the raids would be returned to the groups, which include two based in the US.

Defence Secretary Leon Panetta has spoken to Egypt's military ruler by phone to discuss the issue, they added.

Egypt raided the offices of 17 NGOs in Cairo on Thursday, after expressing concern over foreign funding.

The country's ruling military council has said repeatedly it will not tolerate foreign interference in the country's affairs.

But the US reacted sharply to the move, condemning it as an attack on democratic values and hinting that it could review the $1.3bn (£0.84bn) in annual US military aid to Cairo if such incidents continued.

'Normal operations'
On Friday, Mr Panetta and the US ambassador to Egypt, Anne Patterson, spoke to top Egyptian officials including military ruler Field Marshall Mohamed Tantawi, the US state department said.

"The ambassador has sought and received Egyptian leadership assurances that the raids will cease and property will be returned immediately," spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in emailed comments.

"She has also made clear that we expect all international NGOs, including those that receive US government support, be able to return to normal operations as soon as possible in support of the democratic transition underway in Egypt."

David Kramer, the director of the US human rights watchdog Freedom House, told the BBC that while the reassurance was welcome, it was not enough to undo the damage.

Mr Kramer, whose office was among those raided, said some of his seized property had still not been returned.

Thursday's raids were part of a probe by Egypt into allegations of illegal funding from abroad.

Evidence suggested some groups were violating Egyptian laws, including by not having permits, prosecutors were quoted as saying on Thursday.

But analysts said they were part of a broader move by the ruling military council to silence dissent after months of criticism of its human rights record.


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## MaidenScotland

MaidenScotland said:


> Egypt has reassured the US that it will stop raids on the offices of non-governmental organisations (NGOs), the US state department says.
> 
> Officials said property seized in the raids would be returned to the groups, which include two based in the US.
> 
> Defence Secretary Leon Panetta has spoken to Egypt's military ruler by phone to discuss the issue, they added.
> 
> Egypt raided the offices of 17 NGOs in Cairo on Thursday, after expressing concern over foreign funding.
> 
> The country's ruling military council has said repeatedly it will not tolerate foreign interference in the country's affairs.
> 
> But the US reacted sharply to the move, condemning it as an attack on democratic values and hinting that it could review the $1.3bn (£0.84bn) in annual US military aid to Cairo if such incidents continued.
> 
> 'Normal operations'
> On Friday, Mr Panetta and the US ambassador to Egypt, Anne Patterson, spoke to top Egyptian officials including military ruler Field Marshall Mohamed Tantawi, the US state department said.
> 
> "The ambassador has sought and received Egyptian leadership assurances that the raids will cease and property will be returned immediately," spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in emailed comments.
> 
> "She has also made clear that we expect all international NGOs, including those that receive US government support, be able to return to normal operations as soon as possible in support of the democratic transition underway in Egypt."
> 
> David Kramer, the director of the US human rights watchdog Freedom House, told the BBC that while the reassurance was welcome, it was not enough to undo the damage.
> 
> Mr Kramer, whose office was among those raided, said some of his seized property had still not been returned.
> 
> Thursday's raids were part of a probe by Egypt into allegations of illegal funding from abroad.
> 
> Evidence suggested some groups were violating Egyptian laws, including by not having permits, prosecutors were quoted as saying on Thursday.
> 
> But analysts said they were part of a broader move by the ruling military council to silence dissent after months of criticism of its human rights record.




The first line is interesting.. WILL stop raids.. not has stopped raids.


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## Eco-Mariner

_"Evidence suggested some groups were violating Egyptian laws, including by not having permits, prosecutors were quoted as saying on Thursday."_

Egypt uses this _"pending permit"_ excuse to be able to close any type of business or development down on a whim. It's an old NDP way to control the country, especially by imposing heavy fines if they can find any reason.
Once SCAF are relieved of this position they lose control and their unaccountable income so you see why they want to cling on.


Eco-Mariner.


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## CatMandoo

Eco-Mariner said:


> _"Evidence suggested some groups were violating Egyptian laws, including by not having permits, prosecutors were quoted as saying on Thursday."_
> 
> Egypt uses this _"pending permit"_ excuse to be able to close any type of business or development down on a whim. It's an old NDP way to control the country, especially by imposing heavy fines if they can find any reason.
> Once SCAF are relieved of this position they lose control and their unaccountable income so you see why they want to cling on.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Is it possible, that money is being directed here through some of these "NGO's" in order to keep things riled up here? I do wonder at times, given the direction this country appears to be heading, that some western nations might just "like" to see the turmoil continue....just thinking out loud here


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> Is it possible, that money is being directed here through some of these "NGO's" in order to keep things riled up here? I do wonder at times, given the direction this country appears to be heading, that some western nations might just "like" to see the turmoil continue....just thinking out loud here




Of course it is possible but the army is also funded from abroad so to use overseas donations as an excuse is rather two faced.
Personally I feel the army has done it simply because they have to be seen to be doing something as they constantly harp on that it is all outside influences.


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## hubbly_bubbly

It's all part of the anti-Israeli... er, conspiracy.  Just wait for the "findings".


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## MaidenScotland

hubbly_bubbly said:


> It's all part of the anti-Israeli... er, conspiracy.  Just wait for the "findings".




Of course.. it's scary that the Jews/Israel still get blamed for everything out here


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> Of course.. it's scary that the Jews/Israel still get blamed for everything out here


Don't forget to include the US and GB and any other countries who support Zionism.


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> Don't forget to include the US and GB and any other countries who support Zionism.




Do not understand your comment at all... Are you saying they are to blame for everything?


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> Do not understand your comment at all... Are you saying they are to blame for everything?


Define "everything".


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> Define "everything".




All that is wrong with this country including the unrest


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## CatMandoo

CatMandoo said:


> Define "everything".


Without going into a 20 page dissertation, I do believe they have played a part, yes. I firmly believe Zionists control just about everything that is going on in this world, in one way or another. Not a popular stance with most, I am sure, but this is how I feel based on everything I have read, and seen.


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> Without going into a 20 page dissertation, I do believe they have played a part, yes. I firmly believe Zionists control just about everything that is going on in this world, in one way or another. Not a popular stance with most, I am sure, but this is how I feel based on everything I have read, and seen.




Somehow that doesn't surprise me


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> Somehow that doesn't surprise me


Follow the money trail....it's a long and winding road, but it eventually ends up somewhere


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## Eco-Mariner

To the richest 1% of the population by all accounts. And those you mention are not all on the Forbes Rich List either. 


Eco-Mariner


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## CatMandoo

It's interesting to note that Forbes never publishes a Trillionaire list.


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## PaulAshton

CatMandoo said:


> Don't forget to include the US and GB and any other countries who support Zionism.


Oh not the Zionist conspiracy theory lump that one together with the Illuminati and New World order followers, some people find Zionist an offensive word and those are people who do not get offended easy but the reaction is simply this one 

I can assure you Jews do not control everything, they don't have horns and sharp teeth or look like rats in the cartoons I have seen

You would be suprised there are Ashkenazic Jewish residents here who look European and have to hide family origin and tradition from Egyptian friends I have yet to come across any conspiracy, all people want is to live in peace, I suppose everyone needs a scape goat.

Many Jews celebrate Christmas, New Year and bare no malice to Muslims, they simply count every piastre and find the smell of money like the finest perfume.

I wait with baited breath for the boycott PEPSI (pay every piastre / penny to save Israel) brigade 

Ask some people "why do you hate Jews" they will answer "we don't know" or come out with some absurd excuse.

Probably the same reason some close minded people in the West "hate Muslims" after all they all terrorists, right?


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## CatMandoo

PaulAshton said:


> Oh not the Zionist conspiracy theory lump that one together with the Illuminati and New World order followers, some people find Zionist an offensive word and those are people who do not get offended easy but the reaction is simply this one
> 
> I can assure you Jews do not control everything, they don't have horns and sharp teeth or look like rats in the cartoons I have seen
> 
> You would be suprised there are Ashkenazic Jewish residents here who look European and have to hide family origin and tradition from Egyptian friends I have yet to come across any conspiracy, all people want is to live in peace, I suppose everyone needs a scape goat.
> 
> Many Jews celebrate Christmas, New Year and bare no malice to Muslims, they simply count every piastre and find the smell of money like the finest perfume.
> 
> I wait with baited breath for the boycott PEPSI (pay every piastre / penny to save Israel) brigade
> 
> Ask some people "why do you hate Jews" they will answer "we don't know" or come out with some absurd excuse.
> 
> Probably the same reason some close minded people in the West "hate Muslims" after all they all terrorists, right?


I said Zionists Paul - not Jews. Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political doctrine.
I have had Jewish friends in the states, no prob, I respect all religions.

And I don't do boycotts :tongue1:


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## hubbly_bubbly

Yes, I was just about to add that nowhere did Cat say Jews.

The Zionist movement, like most political and religious institutions, has a lot to answer for.


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## PaulAshton

CatMandoo said:


> I said Zionists Paul - not Jews. Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political doctrine.
> I have had Jewish friends in the states, no prob, I respect all religions.
> 
> And I don't do boycotts :tongue1:


Yes I know I wonder if those who have a Jewish mother or grandmother will be able to claim the "Right of Return" if Israel reclaim the Sinai 

People might be interested the Israel government website at http://www.mfa.gov.il only seems to load in Egypt if you use a secure VPN or proxy server outside of Egypt, don't click on the link or you might find the secret police on your roof :eyebrows:


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## marenostrum

PaulAshton said:


> Ask some people "why do you hate Jews" they will answer "we don't know" or come out with some absurd excuse.


You could turn the question around and ask "why do the jews hate everyone"...

I don't need to see a dissertation to work out that they do control most things. Just have a look at who owns the major media outlets across the world, have a look at the surnames of the major bank CEOs, biggest film directors, many resounding names such as Choens, Sugar, Lewis, Wolff etc etc. Also look at the name list in US politics and I forget the name of the US Jew that said Palestinians do not exist...... before a US presidential candidate is an acceptbale candidate he needs to kiss a few backsides at AIPAC...

They are influential people, very talented at what they do. Nothing wrong with that. But we should be allowed to say that they take the "p....s" when it comes to Israel and its behaviour. Also saying that they control many things is not a crime.


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## rifleman

CatMandoo said:


> Don't forget to include the US and GB and any other countries who support Zionism.


hmmm. So what was my father doing in Palestine trying to prevent shiploads of illegal jewish refugees landing and fighting zionist terrorists then? And those hundreds of other British servicemen who died in Palestine doing the same thing? They were all supporting the people who they were being killed by eh?

You might do well to read more widely rather than just propoganda.


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## CatMandoo

rifleman said:


> hmmm. So what was my father doing in Palestine trying to prevent shiploads of illegal jewish refugees landing and fighting zionist terrorists then? And those hundreds of other British servicemen who died in Palestine doing the same thing? They were all supporting the people who they were being killed by eh?
> 
> You might do well to read more widely rather than just propoganda.


I'm quite well read on the subject, thank you, and from many sources. You might do well to actually just read, since you don't seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject if you have to ask me what was going on. Try for starters Balfour Declaration and The British Mandate for Palestine.

Then,if you want to have a serious discussion on the topic, open up a new thread, as this is going way off topic.


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## rifleman

CatMandoo said:


> I'm quite well read on the subject, thank you, and from many sources. You might do well to actually just read, since you don't seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject if you have to ask me what was going on. Try for starters Balfour Declaration and The British Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Then,if you want to have a serious discussion on the topic, open up a new thread, as this is going way off topic.


I suggest you actually read the Balfour declaration because if you think that made Britain zionist then you have been reading the propoganda. The declaration is intentionally ambiguios and guaranteed the rights of those already living in Palestine. I accept it is used selectively by propogandists. And as for the British mandate, how does Britain being given a mandate to administer a region make it Zionist? Especially when it (unlike the rest of Europe and the US) uses that mandate to oppose mass Jewish migration? Britain stood almost alone in opposing mass Jewish immigration and walked away from the Mandate when it could not get support from the US and Europe for controlling that immigration. If it were Zionist it would not have wanted to limit such immigration.


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## CatMandoo

From the horses mouth....

https://zionist.org.uk/index.php?id=40

About Us
History


The Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland was established in 1899 to campaign for a permanent homeland for the Jewish people. At that time, Palestine was a distant and neglected province of the Turkish Empire with a Jewish population of approximately 50,000. Herzl was working towards obtaining permission for Jews to settle in Palestine but had reached deadlock in his negotiations with the Sultan. In the United Kingdom, the leaders of the Jewish Community had not shown support to the Zionist Movement and it was left to the few committed members of the Zionist Federation, men and women of faith and vision who were convinced that history and truth were on their side to support Herzl. It was from this narrow base that the Zionist Federation became the centre of which Chaim Weizmann and his small band of British Zionists waged their struggle for a Jewish State.

In 1917, the Balfour Declaration was communicated to Lord Rothschild and the letter from the British Foreign Secretary concluded "I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation".

During the next 30 years London became the centre of the World Zionist Movement. In the Zionist Federation's home at 77 Great Russell Street the Jewish Agency established its main political office and conducted government negotiations whilst the Zionist Federation secured Jewish and general support as well as financial assistance for the movement. Among others, it was the leadership of the Zionist Federation who founded WIZO, UJIA, JNF and Youth movements. After the establishment of Israel, many of the graduates of the Zionist Federation became leaders in the new State. In 1954 the Zionist Federation via the Zionist Federation Education Trust (now known as Scopus) created a network of Zionist Day Schools to educate Jewish children in the spirit of Zionism. The Zionist Federation Education Trust set up 14 schools with over 5000 pupils.

The British Zionist Federation was also the first in the world to set up its own office in Israel to assist in the integration of British Olim. The Zionist Federation today represents the UK Zionist Movement more than 120 organisations, and over 50,000 affiliated members.



Aims and Objectives


Its function is to support, co-ordinate and facilitate the work of all its affiliates nationwide, and to continue its commitment to the Zionist youth movements. 
The Zionist Federation aims to encourage the participation of Jews in Zionist activities including education, culture, Hebrew language and Israel information, underpinned by our belief that the main goal of Zionism is Aliyah. 
The Zionist Federation is an umbrella organisation encompassing most of the Zionist organizations and individuals in the country and, as such, represents the Zionist movement in the United Kingdom. 


At the present time, when the Jewish world is changing beyond recognition, the Zionist Federation has taken on the modern role of making Israel part of the life of every Jew. This is done by co-ordinating the central national Yom Ha'atzmaut celebration, organising seminar in Israel, arranging lectures and conferences to address contemporary issues, having monthly Hebrew discussion groups, supporting our Zionist youth and young leadership and producing publications.

During 1997, to celebrate 100 years of Zionism the Zionist Federation marked 100 years of British Zionist achievement by taking a group of British Zionists on an educational seminar to Israel. The Federation continues the 100 years theme by commemorating the 80th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration and organising a special weekend seminar on Zionism 100 to include our annual Israel Conference together with organising and participating in many other activities including: a trip to Sweden, young leadership seminars, trips to Israel and a youth


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## PaulAshton

CatMandoo said:


> From the horses mouth....


Perhaps an easy solution is to give the Arabs the State of Palestine and send all the Zionists to the State of Florida as Walt Disneys Millennium exhibition at the Epcot Centre in Florida depects Jerusalem as the capital of Israel as this is part of Israel's campaign to physically Judaise Jerusalem and mentally condition the world into accepting its claims over Jerusalem 

....on a serious level simply give the Arabs Palestine and Israel have back the Jews

Fact is Israel thinks it's ok to murder people, demolish their houses so that they have no proof of where they reside, kill women & children, "miss fire" rockets where civilians are located, illegally occupy land & then claim its yours etc I think most people can see that.

This is a battle that has been going on for centuries, & will continue to go on until the end of time, hopefully not all Jews get tarred and feathered with the same brush, those Jews who speak out against the above are treated harshly by the Israeli Police and if outside Israel can lose the "right of return" for those who create blogs, the ******s even trawl through facebook making note of those who oppose Israel..


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## rifleman

CatMandoo said:


> From the horses mouth....
> 
> https://zionist.org.uk/index.php?id=40
> 
> About Us
> History
> 
> The Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland was established in 1899 to campaign for a permanent homeland for the Jewish people. At that time, Palestine was a distant and neglected province of the Turkish Empire with a Jewish population of approximately 50,000. Herzl was working towards obtaining permission for Jews to settle in Palestine but had reached deadlock in his negotiations with the Sultan. In the United Kingdom, the leaders of the Jewish Community had not shown support to the Zionist Movement and it was left to the few committed members of the Zionist Federation, men and women of faith and vision who were convinced that history and truth were on their side to support Herzl. It was from this narrow base that the Zionist Federation became the centre of which Chaim Weizmann and his small band of British Zionists waged their struggle for a Jewish State.
> 
> In 1917, the Balfour Declaration was communicated to Lord Rothschild and the letter from the British Foreign Secretary concluded "I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation".
> 
> During the next 30 years London became the centre of the World Zionist Movement. In the Zionist Federation's home at 77 Great Russell Street the Jewish Agency established its main political office and conducted government negotiations whilst the Zionist Federation secured Jewish and general support as well as financial assistance for the movement. Among others, it was the leadership of the Zionist Federation who founded WIZO, UJIA, JNF and Youth movements. After the establishment of Israel, many of the graduates of the Zionist Federation became leaders in the new State. In 1954 the Zionist Federation via the Zionist Federation Education Trust (now known as Scopus) created a network of Zionist Day Schools to educate Jewish children in the spirit of Zionism. The Zionist Federation Education Trust set up 14 schools with over 5000 pupils.
> 
> The British Zionist Federation was also the first in the world to set up its own office in Israel to assist in the integration of British Olim. The Zionist Federation today represents the UK Zionist Movement more than 120 organisations, and over 50,000 affiliated members.
> 
> Aims and Objectives
> 
> Its function is to support, co-ordinate and facilitate the work of all its affiliates nationwide, and to continue its commitment to the Zionist youth movements.
> The Zionist Federation aims to encourage the participation of Jews in Zionist activities including education, culture, Hebrew language and Israel information, underpinned by our belief that the main goal of Zionism is Aliyah.
> The Zionist Federation is an umbrella organisation encompassing most of the Zionist organizations and individuals in the country and, as such, represents the Zionist movement in the United Kingdom.
> 
> At the present time, when the Jewish world is changing beyond recognition, the Zionist Federation has taken on the modern role of making Israel part of the life of every Jew. This is done by co-ordinating the central national Yom Ha'atzmaut celebration, organising seminar in Israel, arranging lectures and conferences to address contemporary issues, having monthly Hebrew discussion groups, supporting our Zionist youth and young leadership and producing publications.
> 
> During 1997, to celebrate 100 years of Zionism the Zionist Federation marked 100 years of British Zionist achievement by taking a group of British Zionists on an educational seminar to Israel. The Federation continues the 100 years theme by commemorating the 80th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration and organising a special weekend seminar on Zionism 100 to include our annual Israel Conference together with organising and participating in many other activities including: a trip to Sweden, young leadership seminars, trips to Israel and a youth


So because there are British Zionists you conclude Britain is Zionist?

Thus far you have not provided a shred of evidence for that suggestion. I have provided evidence that Britain is not Zionist though and you have selectively ignored it. Here is some more. What was Britains involvement in the war of 1948? If it was Zionist it would have been supporting the Jews against the Arabs. But instead British Officers were leading the Arab Legion against the jews. Odd behaviour for Zionists dont you think. The British diplomacy at that time supported Arabs, Egypt in particular, over Isreal. Egypt was at the centre of Britains strategic interests in the Middle East and the British looked out for their own interests principally.

But it is pretty clear from the nonesense you provide as evidence that your mind has been made up for you..


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## CatMandoo

rifleman said:


> So because there are British Zionists you conclude Britain is Zionist?
> 
> Thus far you have not provided a shred of evidence for that suggestion. I have provided evidence that Britain is not Zionist though and you have selectively ignored it. Here is some more. What was Britains involvement in the war of 1948? If it was Zionist it would have been supporting the Jews against the Arabs. But instead British Officers were leading the Arab Legion against the jews. Odd behaviour for Zionists dont you think. The British diplomacy at that time supported Arabs, Egypt in particular, over Isreal. Egypt was at the centre of Britains strategic interests in the Middle East and the British looked out for their own interests principally.
> 
> But it is pretty clear from the nonesense you provide as evidence that your mind has been made up for you..


 Rifleman, can you tell me the name of the richest family in GB, their estimated wealth, and what they own and control?

Why was there even a need for a "Balfour Declaration"? If jews wanted to go to Palestine, let them immigrate through the same process every other country on this earth uses, including yours and mine.


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## marenostrum

rifleman said:


> But it is pretty clear from the nonesense you provide as evidence that your mind has been made up for you..


Yet again you appear and take the moral high ground against another forum user.

I am not going to get into this debate and I don't know who is right or wrong but you only seem to appear on here to slate other people's opinions. This is a forum that focuses on Egypt and people's life here and I have yet to see a post from you that is related to Egypt in anyway shape or form.

It is clear from your way of writing that you are an arrogant individual who thinks he knows it all, a politically correct "thought" policeman with too much time on his hands. Not everyone has to follow your dogma.
I would ask Catmandoo to ignore your posts.


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## MaidenScotland

:focus::focus::focus::focus::focus:
On human rights in Egypt.
If you want to continue on a zionist thread please take it to the shisa cafe..


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## CatMandoo

The total irony and two-faced hypocrital demands of the US regarding this incident are enough to make me want to vomit!

Just days ago Obama signed into law the NDAA - which in actuality makes the US a police state.!! Democracy and Human Rights my A**


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## hubbly_bubbly

PaulAshton said:


> Yes I know I wonder if those who have a Jewish mother or grandmother will be able to claim the "Right of Return" if Israel reclaim the Sinai
> 
> People might be interested the Israel government website at http://www.mfa.gov.il only seems to load in Egypt if you use a secure VPN or proxy server outside of Egypt, don't click on the link or you might find the secret police on your roof :eyebrows:


Hahaha...

I would like to continue in the cafe but about 2 mins (literally) after I went to the above link... the hotel internet went down and has come back since. That was 2 days ago. Coincidence? 

Cat. Great posts.


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## MaidenScotland

hubbly_bubbly said:


> Hahaha...
> 
> I would like to continue in the cafe but about 2 mins (literally) after I went to the above link... the hotel internet went down and has come back since. That was 2 days ago. Coincidence?
> 
> Cat. Great posts.




Actually I tried to look at the link when it was posted... and couldn't


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> Actually I tried to look at the link when it was posted... and couldn't


What link?


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## MaidenScotland

this link

http://www.mfa.gov.il/


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## hubbly_bubbly

MaidenScotland said:


> Actually I tried to look at the link when it was posted... and couldn't


That I can understand. You're not missing much. It's the interior ministry page.

And I meant to say.... "hasn't" come back.


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> this link
> 
> Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs


ahhh the scary one! lol
Thanks Maiden


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> ahhh the scary one! lol
> Thanks Maiden




It wont load...


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## CatMandoo

hubbly_bubbly said:


> Hahaha...
> 
> 
> 
> Cat. Great posts.


Thanks HB - I think we may be kindred spirits in the political arena..


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## hubbly_bubbly

CatMandoo said:


> Thanks HB - I think we may be kindred spirits in the political arena..


You're welcome.

You'll you have to meet my wife sometime. She's the true political firebrand. It's in her blood.


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