# Visa 190 Refusal (positive assessment HR Adviser)



## alphadog (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Here's my story:

I applied for a 190 visa as a Human Resource Adviser for my husbands business (pawnshop/money changer). I got a positive assessment from VETASSESS. On mid August, we got a visit from an integrity officer from the AU embassy in Manila. My husband and I were not in the office during that time. They interviewed one of our employees (head cashier). Our employees doesn't know that we applied for an AU Visa. Below is the explanation why i was not awarded the 10 points for work experience, thus reducing my claimed points from 65 to 55, hence the Visa Refusal.

(1) "On 14 August 2013 this office conducted an investigation into your employment with ____________________. Our officer visited the premises of your employer and spoke to some of the staff attending the shop.

(2) The staff at the shop advised our officers that the shop is a family business and your spouse is the manager of the shop and you assist him in the management of the business including hiring of personnel.

(3) Your staff advised our officers that there are four (4) current employees. Namely: 2 cashiers, 1 filing clerk and 1 ticket writer, all of whom are long term employees.

(4) The staff further advised our officer that you only assist in the management of the business including hiring of personnel. After receiving a phone call the staff changed her information that there are 10 employees but they are not present. The staff advised our officers that staff use time cards to report attendance but later said that the shop keeps a notebook of staff attendance but they are not allowed to show it to anybody.

(5) The next day you contacted our officers and informed them that since they maintain regular employees for many years there is no need to perform personnel tasks on a daily basis. You do not perform the duties the duties and tasks such as study and interpret legislations, collective agreements and employment contracts, developing, planning and formulating enterprise agreements etc.

(6) Based on the information you provided to our officers, together with information collated at the time of visit I have determined that the tasks and duties you performed are closely related of to that of business owner or shop manager ANZSCO 14211 which is not included in the Skilled Migration List and therefore no points are awarded. You do not perform the majority of tasks and duties of a Human Resource Adviser (ANZSCO 14211)."



(2) As per our cashier, she was asked what I do at the shop, our cashier said I am the HR Adviser and my huband is the business owner as well as the office manager

(3) When she was asked how many employees are at the shop, she said there are currently 4 employees present. She was not asked the total number of employees.

(4) When our cashier was asked what else I do at the shop, she said she does not know every task that I do, what she knows is I do the interviews and hiring and I facilitate payments, records etc. for our sss/philhealth and pag-ibig (pension plan, healthcare and housing loan). While they were talking, our cashier received a call from a customer asking for the rate (as per our cashier). Our cashier told me that she received a number of calls during the interview/conversation. She said she was asked some more questions like what time I go to work, how long I stay there as well as my husbands work schedule. During the conversation (as what is told me by our cashier), she informed the officer that the total number of employees is 10 but we have some staff that are not reporting to work, the officer said, “oh, AWOL (absent without leave)”. Why is it insinuated that after receiving a call, she changed her statement regarding the number of employees, I believe what she did was just inform the officer the total number of employees. Regarding the time card, I asked our cashier if she told the officer if we have a time card, she said what she told him is that we have a log book/notebook wherein they sign their initials when they report for work. She said she even pointed to the officer where the notebook is. The officer asked if he could take a look at the notebook, one of our staff in the back office heard the request and called her attention to remind her that they are not allowed to show office records to anyone outside the office (it is our company policy, for security reasons, we are not allowed to show any records or divulge any information about the company and our employees). The officer also asked her if I informed them that someone from the AU Embassy is coming for a visit, she said “no, I am actually surprised of your visit” (I did not tell our employees that I was applying for an AU visa). Our cashier said that as the officer was about to leave, he said “sorry na lang hindi ko nakausap si madam” (sorry I was not able to talk to madam). Our cashier said he said this with a smile and in sort of a sarcastic tone.

(5) The nextday, I called the integrity officer. i did not inform the officer that there is no need to perform personnel tasks on a daily basis. he asked me if i could honestly say that 99% of my day is spent doing hr tasks, i said no, not 99% of my day. And no, i do not perform this particular task (legislation, collective agreement....) because we are just a small business and our staff does not have a union, therefore no need for this task. Why is this particular task being forced upon me, does this mean that because I do not perform this task, I am not an HR adviser?

(6) How could he say that my duties is more related to that of a shop manager or business owner, that is my husbands job. And thru that interview, how did he assess that outcome. Why would VETASSESS give me a positive assessment if my duties are not fit to that of an HR Adviser. 

* Most of the tasks i perform is that of an hr adviser. If i remember correctly, during my conversation with the integrity officer he was already insisting that i am more of a shop manager. I honestly do not have any idea how he came up with that assessment. Why didn’t the case officer contact me after he was given the report so i could have explained?
During my phone conversation with the integrity officer, he made the insinuation that he does not believe that we really have 10 employees because he did not see all of them. I informed him that during that day only 4 employees reported for work, 2 employees in the back office and the other cashier is out for lunch. I informed him that 1 of our employees just recently resigned and I have 2 employees who haven’t reported to work for a few days (return to work notice already sent to them) and 1 on day off and the supervisor was with my mother in law. He asked me why he did not see the other 2 employees who are in the back office, I told him that it is company policy that only the 2 cashiers are allowed to interact with the customers, the other employees stay in the back office to avoid connivance with fraudulent customers. He asked me why didn’t they come to the front window to show themselves when he has already introduced himself as someone from the AU embassy. First of all, I believe he did not ask them to do so, and I told him that we are strict when it comes to that policy. We have already encountered people who pretended to be our friend asking our staff for some money and information. I explained to him in detail why that policy is strictly enforced. He then asked me about the status of the business and whether my husband has an accounting notebook. I told him he does have that and we have an accountant to whom he submits it to. But the notebook is not in my possession because my husband is the one who handles that. My husband is the one who manages the business.

Any help or input would be greatly appreciated. i refuse to accept this outcome. Is there anything i could do? We do not have a mara agent. processed this application on our own. Is there someone from the DIAC aside from our CO we could contact with regards to this. I feel like this decision was done in haste, it seems that the decision was only based on the interview and all the documents I have submitted was disregarded. Why was I not given a chance by the CO to explain after he received the report from the integrity officer?

Sorry for the long post, i am really stressed for help.

Thank you.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2013)

So you have been sent this as a formal outcome, does the letter say if you have the right of appeal? You wouldn't usually for a 190, the decision on how many points you are given based on their assessment not yours is final. 

Was the decision given for points only or character as well?


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## alphadog (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> So you have been sent this as a formal outcome, does the letter say if you have the right of appeal? You wouldn't usually for a 190, the decision on how many points you are given based on their assessment not yours is final.
> 
> Was the decision given for points only or character as well?



Yes, it was sent as a formal outcome. There was information that I could appeal thru MRT. 

I'm sorry but I don't understand your last question. If I understand it correctly, the decision was given for points only. I was not given points for work experience because the co said I am more of a shop manager. So instead of 65 points, I now only have 55 points because of the 10 that was taken away for work experience.

Now I don't know how to go about it anymore. Any advice would really be helpful.


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## AM (May 29, 2013)

if MRT option is given, it is a possible choice. you could appeal to them. but i see very less chances though


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

If it says you can appeal do so but you have a limited time in which to do so and have to pay for it. 

My second question was are they accusing you of deliberate visa fraud which would mean you fail the character test.


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## alphadog (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> If it says you can appeal do so but you have a limited time in which to do so and have to pay for it.
> 
> My second question was are they accusing you of deliberate visa fraud which would mean you fail the character test.


There was no mention that I failed the character test. I don't think they were accusing me of visa fraud because there was no mention of it.


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## alphadog (Apr 22, 2013)

aravindhmohan said:


> if MRT option is given, it is a possible choice. you could appeal to them. but i see very less chances though


Why do you think I have a less chance? Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

What evidence can you provide that shows the work you do is line with the nominated occupation? Yes they can force roles upon you because there is a detailed description of the occupation and what you do needs to meet it or be very closely related. Supervision of staff is not an HR role on its own its a managers role.


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## alphadog (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> What evidence can you provide that shows the work you do is line with the nominated occupation? Yes they can force roles upon you because there is a detailed description of the occupation and what you do needs to meet it or be very closely related. Supervision of staff is not an HR role on its own its a managers role.


I have copies of the memos I have given our employees, memos like warnings, disciplinary actions, etc. I have submitted those documents to VETASSESS. Do you have suggestions on what else I could give them to prove my position as HR Adviser? I am also in charge of studying the labor laws to make sure that we follow and implement them. 

I don't supervise our employees, that is my husbands job. He even got a positive assessment as an office manager from VETASSESS back when office manager was still at WA SOL

I am wandering why they seem to disregard the positive assessment given to me by VETASSESS.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

No they accept the assessment but they are disregarding your current work experience which you are trying to claim points for. Hence they lowered your points and you did not qualify. Otherwise you would have been rejected for not being qualified in an occupation on the skilled list. Which they still have the right to make that decision even if you have a valid skills assessment if they feel a mistake was made on their own investigations. 

Many people get skills assessments in occupations they are no longer working in but are fully qualified in. They however do not claim work experience point if their experience is not related to the assessment. They then meet the points elsewhere and don't claim work experience points and get their visas. 

You would need to go through the occupation description and provide paper evidence and witness/customer statutory declarations for every single role on the description.


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