# Debit Cards



## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I lost my Banorte debit card by leaving it in an ATM. Entirely my fault; I was distracted by a worry about something else. Anyway, usually in the past when I have needed to replace a Banorte debit card for whatever reason, I went to a branch and was issued a new card (marked “Enlace Personal”) on the spot.

This time, I was in the branch for three hours (one waiting, two with the executive) before I was finally given a card. It was only when I got home that I realized that they had foisted their new “Tarjeta Universal” on me, a card that is totally useless for my purposes. It cannot be used for international transactions, or for online purchases in Mexico of more than 400 pesos, even if you could get anyone to accept it online, which is doubtful considering that the card doesn’t bear an expiration date or three-digit security code.

“Don’t you love our new card that you can’t do anything with?” Umm, no.

i returned to the bank after the holiday weekend and experienced quite a tussle. A different executive practically yelled at me that this is the correct card for my account (which is an “Actividad Empresarial”, so no, I don’t think so). I explained that it doesn’t have any of the functionalities that I need, but it took another hour of phone calls before she grudgingly agreed to start the paperwork for a personalized full-featured card which will take two weeks to deliver. (I hope it’s only two weeks, but this is Banorte so who knows.) No more same-day “Enlace Personal” cards, I guess.

Question: Are there any banks with good debit card service that any of you can recommend? How long does it take to get the cards?


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## SleepParty (Jan 13, 2021)

I worked for Bancoppel a while back, as an executive. My job was to offer cards to clients, and to be honest, even if I don't work there no more, I still recommend the bank because those cards are backed up by Visa and can be used internationally.
Best part, the bank doesn't have hidden fees or charge an annual fee at all. Once you get the card, it's ready to use. They only charge you for the card itself, which is around 3 bucks.
Anyways, you can find these Bancoppel banks in loads of mexican cities. There are branches inside the Coppel stores.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

SleepParty said:


> I worked for Bancoppel a while back, as an executive. My job was to offer cards to clients, and to be honest, even if I don't work there no more, I still recommend the bank because those cards are backed up by Visa and can be used internationally.
> Best part, the bank doesn't have hidden fees or charge an annual fee at all. Once you get the card, it's ready to use. They only charge you for the card itself, which is around 3 bucks.
> Anyways, you can find these Bancoppel banks in loads of mexican cities. There are branches inside the Coppel stores.


Thank you! Worth looking into for me if this Banorte situation doesn’t straighten itself out in fairly short order.

One further question: Do they issue a debit card the day when you open the account?


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

I've had a Bancomer account for at least 12 years. I once left it in an atm (it was a Bancomer ATM, but not attached to a brick and mortar bank) and once had my wallet stolen with the card in it.
Both times, it was an easy matter to just go into the bank and get issued a new card, on the spot. Of course it took awhile, as all Mexican bureaucracy does, waiting in line and all, but it was no big deal. And when I first opened the account, yes, I was given a debit card right away.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

surabi said:


> I've had a Bancomer account for at least 12 years. I once left it in an atm (it was a Bancomer ATM, but not attached to a brick and mortar bank) and once had my wallet stolen with the card in it.
> Both times, it was an easy matter to just go into the bank and get issued a new card, on the spot. Of course it took awhile, as all Mexican bureaucracy does, waiting in line and all, but it was no big deal. And when I first opened the account, yes, I was given a debit card right away.


Excellent information, thank you!


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## mr_manny (Nov 22, 2013)

A generaly happy Bancomer client here 

I've heard MX banks in general don't protect their clients with fraudulent charges like they do up north.
I don't have any first hand experience...but do lean towards northern CC accounts over MX whenever possible.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

mr_manny said:


> A generaly happy Bancomer client here
> 
> I've heard MX banks in general don't protect their clients with fraudulent charges like they do up north.
> I don't have any first hand experience...but do lean towards northern CC accounts over MX whenever possible.


Mexican banking, even at its best, is a bit of an adventure. 😳


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

No problems here during some two decades with cards from BBVA (the bank formerly known as Bancomer).


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

maesonna said:


> No problems here over two decades with a card from BBVA (the bank formerly known as Bancomer).


That is very good. Although Banorte has some positives, an English-language helpline among them, I could write a book about my problems there, and at Santander.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm happy with Banamex, got cards same-day (twice) but on January 11th Citi announced they were going to divest Banamex, without having a buyer lined up. So no telling who will buy it or how it will change as a result. For that reason I'd choose an alternative.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I haven't followed the situation all that closely - but I think Citi is 'unloading' some of the Banamex business (like perhaps the walk in trade). I believe they are holding onto the higher end part of the business. Maybe a month or so back I received an email from Citibanamex that said I would notice no change in their services. 

One kind of interesting aspect is that up to now I have received a US (English language/dollar valued) 1099-INT each year. Maybe that will change in the future. I wonder if, in any way, the banking changes imposed by the new NAFTA agreement had anything to do with Citi's decision. I am on thin ice but I believe the data for your Banamex account is 'stored' in the US (as a result of NAFTA/2).

My HSBC executives speculate that BancoAzteca will take over the Banamex business. I have mixed feelings about that.

I guess things are changing in the Mexican banking world. It has some of my Mexican friends a little concerned. For one thing they don't like this new Banco del Bienestar...


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

Speaking of banks, does anyone have experience with banca mifel? They were the easiest to work with when I was changing dollars to pesos last time. They also said it would be no problem opening an account soon as I get my RT card.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Follow-up: This is rich. So I wait almost two weeks to receive my new personalized Banorte debit card. It is at the branch yesterday (Friday) for me to pick up. Great! After getting the card, I try to activate it as instructed in one of the ATM machines at the branch, which usually works, but this time the screen tells me I have to call to activate it. Fine, I do so, and the rep on the telephone tells me that the last step is to go back to an ATM machine to check my balance (at which time the machine will ask me to change my PIN). No worries.

I go back to the branch today (Saturday) and try to do this. First, the ATM machine tells me that the PIN is incorrect - but wait, I’m reading it directly off the paper. So I try again and the machine tells me “La tarjeta ha retenida.” I had to laugh, honestly.

I call Banorte customer service and they have to cancel the new card. The rep tells me, maybe an ATM malfunction, maybe a faulty debit card, maybe a mismatch between the card and the issued PIN. Who really cares, something doesn’t work. (Even if the card hadn’t been retained by the ATM, if it was not properly matched to the PIN it was issued with, I’m guessing it probably would have had to be replaced anyway.)

I can apply for a free replacement card NEXT THURSDAY, or before that but then I have to pay for the replacement, and in either case I have to wait up to 10 business days for the new new card.

Other banks? Well, I tried Bancoppel, but their debit card cannot be used for payments at international websites. I started the process of opening a new account at BBVA but couldn’t complete it yet (I didn’t have my phone with me for them to confirm my phone # - I always forget to bring SOMETHING). With luck, I can finish up with BBVA on Monday and get issued a card. If not, it’s on to Banamex or Scotia Bank. This is all pretty tiring for sure.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

If I did not have true sympathy for your situation, I would laugh. (I did not laugh, but I smiled in spite of myself). Reliable advice was (4 yrs ago) do not get a MX bank account, that has proven to make things very easy for us; probably would not work for most people. Hope you can get this figured out.....  🤥


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Probably that was good advice, for some people at least. My Banorte account was opened for me 11 years ago by my then-employer, in order for me to receive my compensation by direct deposit. I have kept it through ups and downs ever since, mostly downs. I would have needed a Mexican account anyway when I started a private SAT-registered business here in 2015.

I have also had a Santander account, which was an even worse disaster, considering that I am currently involved in “litigation” with them, through CONDUSEF. The amount in play is more than 28,000 pesos, not chicken feed. CONDUSEF has had the matter for more than a year, and I pretty much despair of ever getting a determination from them. Also, my attorney has gone missing…it’s really just all too ridiculous.

Let’s see…SAT has owed me three tax refunds for more than a year, one of them fairly substantial, and I will be shocked if I ever see a peso of that money. My accountant follows up periodically to no avail.

I am certainly not saying that this kind of nonsense is necessarily worse in Mexico, though. It seems to me that more than 50% of the posts in all the sub-forums here at Expat Forum have to do with procedural / financial complications and bureaucracies of various sorts, and that has only gotten much, much worse since the advent of COVID.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Probably that was good advice, for some people at least. My Banorte account was opened for me 11 years ago by my then-employer, in order for me to receive my compensation by direct deposit. I have kept it through ups and downs ever since, mostly downs. I would have needed a Mexican account anyway when I started a private SAT-registered business here in 2015.
> 
> I have also had a Santander account, which was an even worse disaster, considering that I am currently involved in “litigation” with them, through CONDUSEF. The amount in play is more than 28,000 pesos, not chicken feed. CONDUSEF has had the matter for more than a year, and I pretty much despair of ever getting a determination from them. Also, my attorney has gone missing…it’s really just all too ridiculous.
> 
> ...


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

Can't find any fault with individual situations, especially as they exist over the years. My experience with 15 different banks in the US was not so different. For me, 25 years with Schwab has been the best financial blessing I have experienced. They still work for me here in MX. Best wishes, my friend.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Thank you, sir!

Update to the update: Scratch BBVA. Their new standard debit card, the “Aqua”, does not have an expiration date or security code printed on the card. They exist, but the security code is “dynamic” and can only be accessed through the app, which makes this an ineffective option for recurring payments, or for websites that store your card info for subsequent use. Really, it just sounds like a pain in the you-know-what.

And scratch Banamex, because their debit cards are personalized with your name printed, and thus it will take me just as long to get one of these as it will to get my new new Banorte card, and I need a payment method now, like this minute.

So it looks like maybe Scotiabank is my option, but I will find out on Monday when I visit them. Fingers crossed. All the info at their website looks OK.

I will say that this proliferation of differently featured “debit cards” (some of them are really just ATM cards) is terribly confusing, and from where I sit, unhelpful. Banorte with its pretty useless Tarjeta Universal congratulated itself on “innovation in the digital space” - I better bite my tongue about that.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Thank you, sir!
> 
> Update to the update: Scratch BBVA. Their new standard debit card, the “Aqua”, does not have an expiration date or security code printed on the card. They exist, but the security code is “dynamic” and can only be accessed through the app, which makes this an ineffective option for recurring payments, or for websites that store your card info for subsequent use. Really, it just sounds like a pain in the you-know-what.
> 
> ...


Good luck, my friend


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Scratch BBVA. Their new standard debit card, the “Aqua”, does not have an expiration date or security code printed on the card.


I don't know if they recently changed it, but my Bancomer debit card, which is about 2 years old, has both an expiry date and a security code.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

surabi said:


> I don't know if they recently changed it, but my Bancomer debit card, which is about 2 years old, has both an expiry date and a security code.


I believe they have changed it recently, yes. The Aqua card is a new product, but according to their website is the new standard.






Nuevas Tarjetas BBVA


Tus tarjetas BBVA, sin datos visibles para proteger tu identidad, de material reciclado para cuidar el planeta y con pago sin contacto para pagar fácil en la nueva normalidad.




www.bbva.mx




*Las nuevas tarjetas BBVA evolucionaron para ti*

Sin números visibles
I would not have known all of this without my ongoing problems, but there seem to be a lot of changes in Mexican banking! One Banorte rep said to me, “All new products.”

I am not sure exactly what the point is of “debit cards” that lack features and functionalities, UNLESS it is to push online purchases onto credit cards where they will accumulate high interest. I mean, not to be conspiratorial or anything. 🙄


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I found this interesting comment on the BBVA changes.









BBVA debuts "dynamic CVV" numberless card Aqua - FinTech Futures


It features a dynamic CVV code in order to provide security for online payments.




www.fintechfutures.com





“It’s an absolute nuisance and complete overkill designed by a power-crazy idiot. What used to take a few seconds now takes several minutes and unnecessarily introduces many potential failure points throughout the process that then needs the entire cycle to be repeated from the beginning. To make an online payment, you have to also log in to the BBVA site as well as the site from which you are trying to make the purchase. After finding the card’s number on the BBVA site, you have to go back to the vendor’s site and enter those details. You also have to request a CVV number. After waiting for a confirmation SMS (which may now involve your phone too if you’ve been making the purchase using a desktop computer), you have to enter this confirmation code into the relevant field on the BBVA site. Only then will you receive a CVV number which you will then need to enter on the vendor’s website. It gets worse: After doing that, you have to wait for the vendor’s process to contact BBVA for payment authorization. You now have to go back to the BBVA site and wait for it to acknowledge the vendor’s request and then ask you to confirm by sending yet another confirmation via SMS to your phone which you have to enter into the relevant field on the BBVA site. Just because banking technology CAN be designed to impose many hurdles when making a simple transaction, doesn’t mean that it should or that’s it’s a good idea. This one is insane.”


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

One of the reasons for the many hurdles is that the raud going on in Mexico is way worse than in the US but I agree it is a total nuisance. he idea of turning off the card is not bad. The idea of putting a limit on the card is not bad but then I forget all about it and then I get rejeced when I want to make purchases , also if you buy on a regular basis from a vendor you have to go through hte new card procedure every time you purchase something which is really annoying.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Well, that does sound completely user unfriendly and frustrating. I have never used their app as it uses facial recognition, which I find creepy and a privacy issue.
I use my debit card for point of sale purchases and to withdraw or deposit money at an ATM. I pay my CFE, internet and phone at OXO with cash or my debit card. I transfer money online using their desktop version, not the app- direct transfer from my bank account to the recipient's. For that you need their little electronic token which reads the QR code that appears on the screen.

I'll tell you one thing- I never understood why debit and bank cards have that security code on the back. Doesn't seem very secure to me. If your card is stolen or lost, someone can charge whatever they want on it, as they have both the card number and security code. (Happened to me- the thieves instantly racked up $800 worth of online purchases before I had a chance to call, report it stolen, and have it cancelled.) Seems like a security code should be something known only to the card holder, not printed on the card.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

My Banamex card wasn't personalized, and I got it right away. (Had trouble validating it, had to go back and get another, also not personalized). Where the name would be on the card mine says "Perfiles Azul", and the card is blue. It's a mastercard. 

So maybe it depends on the type of the account you open. Or the branch. Or whatever the person who helps you knows how to do. Or the state of the moon.

It has a chip, an expiration date on the front and a CVV on the back. I was using it for recurring billing with telcel, when I had that going. I have bought stuff with it from Amazon.mx and MercadoLibre. I haven't tried to buy anything with it internationally - no need, since I have two dollar-based US cards for US purchases.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

That dynamic CVV sounds like a real PITA. For my hobby I sometimes pre-order things that are not yet 'out', so as to guarantee getting one from a limited production run. Typically the merchants take the card info but don't charge it until the item is available and is shipped to me. How's that going to work with a dynamic CVV? I bet it's not.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Speaking of security issues - the software on my laptop (malwarebytes in this case) has an issue with something in THIS specific page on this thread and is shutting something down  

So much of my experiences in life (and my Mexican banking experiences in particular) have had to do with the personal relationships. In regards to some of the things mentioned on this thread... because of covid my long-standing HSBC account executive retired and while her young assistant was going through her schooling to replace her, an interim woman was brought in. Just about everything this woman did had to be undone. HSBC (for me anyway) has been over protective. If they have the slightest security concern they lock my account and require a visit to the branch to unlock it. So that happened once last year (I think I set up a new relationship (beneficiary) for a SPEI transfer for a high peso amount). Well this temporary woman unlocked my account. I got up from her desk, walked to the ATM perhaps 30 feet away and it ate my card. I returned to her desk and she walked me to a teller who on the spot generated a new debit card for me (with a name of HSBC client). I only use the card at HSBC ATMs for cash withdrawals but it has always worked fine.

So our Premier account at HSBC is over 10 years old. We set it up while still in the States. We held on to the name/number of the woman in Mexico City (in the tower) who was on the other end of the phone call the day we set up the account. Years later, when I needed an English capable person at the bank in an emergency, I called that woman. Well she had by that point moved into a corner office. But I called her, mentioned my name, and she immediately responded - I remember you. You are from Florida and we once spoke on the phone. (Now I will grant you - based on this woman's name she is obviously oriental). 

I know that my HSBC account has special powers that you cannot get today if you open a new account. I know because in the last few years we set up an account for my wife, making her the titular of her own account, only to find that she was not able to make investments that I was allowed to make.

Nowadays HSBC has an app that people use on their cell phones. I am an old fashion kind of guy and I still use their web page and also use a little football shaped device to generate a 6 digit security token. At some point the battery will fail on that device and they have already told me they will insist that I step up to using the app but in the mean time... Also - I know that the HSBC app is not available for the US manufactured cell phone I use. It does not show up on the 'app store' as an option. There are probably ways around that issue - but I mention it here anyway.

I also have a patrimonial account at Banamex. It is interesting. I have had two English speaking executives over the years. They must pay their people very well. When the covid vaccines first became available one young girl insisted she wanted the Pfizer flavor. So - she bought a ticket to the US where she received her shot (that was rather pricey). Another woman and her friends are US football fanatics. They have a 'club' and on occasion they fly to the US to attend games in person. Anyway - maybe 5 years back Citi approached me about tie-ing a US based Citi account to my Banamex account. I met with a US rep in my Mexican branch one day. In the end I did not go that route but last year the topic came up again. This time I spoke with the exact same US rep on the phone in Miami. The call lasted quite some time. He remembered me as well. He also had done quite well for himself in his career. When the call ended I inquired into who his superiors were at Citi. I was given two names and I wrote them praising the efforts of the young man I spoke with. Now THAT made an impression


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Excellent information, everyone, thank you very much. I will put Banamex back on my list of possibilities. But I will try Scotiabank first on Monday, it seems promising.

The comments about facial recognition software (BBVA) and forced use of apps (HSBC) are interesting. I do not like to have anything rammed down my throat in the name of “innovation”. Companies are free to create new products, and I should be free to reject them. This “dynamic CVV” - forget it, not interested in that product. Hiding the CVV and expiration date but letting me know them so I can input them for web purchases, that would be perfectly fine - but Banorte’s Tarjeta Universal does not make those numbers accessible to the user at all.

And going through the new card process every time you purchase something from the same vendor is a total non-starter, I agree. I mean, ease of recurring payments is one of the benefits of making online purchases with a card!

Over-protectiveness is certainly an issue. My Banorte account gets locked on average once a month, no joke. Fortunately I am able to unlock it over the phone, but still.

i am not dumping my Banorte account now because my monthly Social Security payments go into it, and that took a while to set up properly so I don’t want to mess with it. But as an 11-year customer, I have to say that Banorte has consistently demonstrated a bizarre inability to deal with the most ordinary of banking situations. Everything is turned into a crisis and major hassle, and it fries my nerves. I am grateful that Banorte has an English-language option in their telephone customer service, but I wish I didn’t have to rely on it so much, because some weeks I live on that line.

I understand that there WILL be bureaucracy, it can’t be helped in the modern world, and that things will go kerflooey periodically (although in some systems this happens far too much). But none of this stuff adds to the joy of life, you know? 🙂


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Interesting - my malware software does not like reference to 'fintechfutures' ...


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I just had some chat with Banorte on Twitter. The rep says there is in fact an expiration date and security code for the Tarjeta Universal that the branch gave me - I can access them through the Banorte Móvil app. This sounds promising, but I was told last fall that my account type is not eligible to use the app. Then it went like this:

“What is the account type?”
“Personas Fisicas con Actividad Empresarial.”
“That account type is not eligible to use the app.”
“But you need the app to access the Tarjeta Universal features?”
“True. You should not have that card.”

As I surmised, the executives in my branch do not even know what card types go with what account types. If they do not understand their products, how am I supposed to?

The Twitter rep is going to try to get the branch to give me the old unpersonalized but full-featured “Enlace Personal” debit card, which is apparently still floating around. If they do not have one in the branch, they should surely be able (famous last words!) to have one delivered overnight (and could have done this weeks ago).

As I was saying about Banorte being able to complicate any simple situation…


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

eastwind said:


> That dynamic CVV sounds like a real PITA. For my hobby I sometimes pre-order things that are not yet 'out', so as to guarantee getting one from a limited production run. Typically the merchants take the card info but don't charge it until the item is available and is shipped to me. How's that going to work with a dynamic CVV? I bet it's not.


That sounds pretty much like the exact situation it's designed to prevent: someone else having your card information and then using it later. (For what it's worth, my wife is often on the other end of a similar situation, as she is in direct sales and occasionally takes card info over the phone.)


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