# The Internet



## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

Hi,

So I read a few articles online that say that Italy has terrible Internet.

Is this true?

I don't like DSL, so I'd only be talking about cable & only in the less expensive areas which I believe are the Southern areas.

I read it's because the average age is senior, so they don't care about having the Internet. Is that also true, that there are more 60+ than let's say 30-50 year olds?

Thanks


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

I think it is because most of Italy is filled with very small villages and aging infrastructure that will not support anything faster than aDSL. And, some can't even get that.

That's why a lot of people use USB sticks that they get from their cellular carrier - the service is generally faster than aDSL and not hugely expensive.

You will have much better luck with wired Internet in the major cities, where speeds can be very good.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

PS: here is the official age distribution data according to Italy's National Statistics Institute (akin to the US Census Bureau):



> Age structure
> 
> 0-14 years: 13.7%
> 15-64 years: 64.3%
> ...



Compare to the US:



> As of 2012, people are distributed by age as follows:
> 
> 0–14 years: 19.8% (male 31,639,127/female 30,305,704)
> 15–64 years: 66.8% (male 101,612,000/female 104,577,000)
> ...


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm curious why you don't like DSL?

Most DSL goes up to 20meg IF you're willing to pay a little extra.

A few places have what was a special low speed DSL. I think 2mb. Telecom offered this in partnership with the towns. These towns are so small they wouldn't have received any service without the deal. Unfortunately since they have some service they're at the back of the line for upgrades.

Most people dump internet keys the moment they have the chance. They're about the same price of DSL. They have data caps. Okay many are around 10GB a month but these days that isn't a great deal. 

Cable is very rare in Europe. So you're only options are DSL,Fibre and cell based service. I'll ignore satellite and some of the other systems.

Fibre is a big city thing. I think the current standard in Milan is 300MB.

But DSL is fast enough to watch HD TV.


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## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks for your answers even if I'm sad to hear them.

Well Fiber is supposed to be equivalent to cable right? (I think).

Because cable is better than DSL, that's why. I've had many geeks tell me this over the years. Not to mention DSL is more expensive than cable when you compare their speeds. At least that's how it is in both Canada & the US.

Those speeds are way too low for me.

I need at least 50 & 3-5 upload speeds & a good ping too. I didn't even ask about the ping.

Right now I am getting 200 & 5 although I'm having problems with the cable, but it may also be my laptop, I won't know 100% until I set up my new desktop.

I guess my next post should ask what the cost of a 2 bedroom apt. is in major cities. Probably too much for me, as my budget is $500 or less USD 

Thanks again


Michelle


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

sensualspirit said:


> Because cable is better than DSL, that's why. I've had many geeks tell me this over the years.


That's not a fair generalization. DSL generally stalled in the United States, but it generally didn't in Europe.

Yes, if you insist on fiber Internet service then you'll have to move to an area with that sort of service. That'll be a few major cities, most likely.

Note that nothing will help if you're depending on particular network performance to, say, California and the international hops are not delivering the performance you expect. And the speed of light is the speed of light, meaning that your roundtrip "ping" time to/from California can't be any shorter than double the wire/fiber distance between those points on the globe. If you want to play a fast response video game with somebody in Los Angeles, stay in Los Angeles. Then there's VPN overhead if that's what you're going to be using. Add all that together and the local "pipe" isn't going to be particularly important, relatively speaking.

Welcome to Italy.


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## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

BBCWatcher said:


> That's not a fair generalization. DSL generally stalled in the United States, but it generally didn't in Europe.
> 
> Yes, if you insist on fiber Internet service then you'll have to move to an area with that sort of service. That'll be a few major cities, most likely.
> 
> ...


Ok, I sort of understood what you were saying LOL

I need it for camming, so it has to be clear. I'm not a gammer, but it's almost the same concept.

I'm already overseas now & yes, using a US VPN, but the most important thing is the upload speed.

What do you mean the DSL stalled in the US?

How is it better in EUR & more specifically in Italy?

What cities are you referring to re: fiber optic?

Thanks


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

sensualspirit said:


> What do you mean the DSL stalled in the US?


DSL in the United States generally stalled in terms of deployed improvements. Also, DSL is still often the only wired option in rural America, with long wire runs to telephone switches that limit achievable bit rates. DSL technologies, however, never stood still and kept improving. The latest variant is something called G.fast. G.fast is designed to serve as the "final hop" technology, generally with so-called "Fiber To The Cabinet" (FTTCab) then traditional copper wires (with G.fast) taking over for the connection into the home/business. This is the approach Telecom Italia is taking, although they're presently using VDSL2 to do it and might move to G.fast later on. VDSL2 ranges up to around 100 Mbps download/20 Mbps upload. This approach is a great fit for most of Italy (and places like it) that cannot realistically afford to rewire homes and businesses.



> What cities are you referring to re: fiber optic?


With that background, it depends on what you mean by "fiber." FTTCab is the preferred approach in Italy, with Telecom Italia promising service to 125 Italian cities (about 35% of the population) at last report, increasing over the next couple years to cover about 75% of the population. Download speeds will be a minimum of 30 Mbps in this class of service. FTTH (Fiber to the Home) is much less common, and you'll find it only in major cities like Milan and (to some extent) Bologna, Turin, and Genoa. That's a 100 Mbps download/10 Mbps upload service, typically. None of this is terribly exciting, really, since VDSL2 is already pretty good, at least if you're close to the telephone switch. And _that's_ the key. If you'd like to get a more detailed explanation, this page (in Italian) provides a good summary.

So, bottom line, pick someplace to live that's close (in wire distance terms) to your telephone switch, and sign up for VDSL2 service from Telecom Italia, Fastweb, Tiscali, Vodafone, or somebody else. Whether that's FTTCab or "traditional" VDSL2 won't matter much if at all.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Vodafone et all are doing fibre to the home along with enel. Don't expect it tomorrow.

If the OP really needs those upload speeds I don't think any of the consumer DSL services are providing it.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

NickZ, you've reminded me of another option. First of all it's essential to be located close (in wire distance) to a telephone switch -- that part doesn't change with what I'm about to describe. Second, if for some reason the best available VDSL2 service at that home location doesn't work out, you can inquire about getting more expensive Symmetric DSL (SDSL) service, a business class service. Symmetric DSL changes the equation and trades download speed for upload speed. That's in contrast to the asymmetric DSL services that home users typically prefer. In Italian: simmetrica v. asimmetrica.

Yet another option is to get what's called "bonded" service. You can even do this with home Internet service. You'd order two VDSL2 connections, hook them into a router that supports connection pair bonding (which the Internet provider itself might even be able to supply), and, presto, you have doubled your service assuming there's nothing upstream getting in the way. This assumes that you have enough copper wires coming into the home (or can get another pair if necessary), and usually that's true. Bonus points are awarded here if you can manage to do that with two different ISPs since you'll get a bit more robustness if one of the service providers is having trouble. The ISPs still have to ride over the same physical infrastructure, though -- this is not how a mission critical data center gets wired.

You could pair bond wired and wireless connections, although I think you'd do that mostly for reliability rather than performance/speed.


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## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

BBCWatcher said:


> NickZ, you've reminded me of another option. First of all it's essential to be located close (in wire distance) to a telephone switch -- that part doesn't change with what I'm about to describe. Second, if for some reason the best available VDSL2 service at that home location doesn't work out, you can inquire about getting more expensive Symmetric DSL (SDSL) service, a business class service. Symmetric DSL changes the equation and trades download speed for upload speed. That's in contrast to the asymmetric DSL services that home users typically prefer. In Italian: simmetrica v. asimmetrica.
> 
> Yet another option is to get what's called "bonded" service. You can even do this with home Internet service. You'd order two VDSL2 connections, hook them into a router that supports connection pair bonding (which the Internet provider itself might even be able to supply), and, presto, you have doubled your service assuming there's nothing upstream getting in the way. This assumes that you have enough copper wires coming into the home (or can get another pair if necessary), and usually that's true. Bonus points are awarded here if you can manage to do that with two different ISPs since you'll get a bit more robustness if one of the service providers is having trouble. The ISPs still have to ride over the same physical infrastructure, though -- this is not how a mission critical data center gets wired.
> 
> You could pair bond wired and wireless connections, although I think you'd do that mostly for reliability rather than performance/speed.


Sorry for the delay, I've been busy.

So do you even live in Italy? It says you are in Singapore.

How do you know what's in Italy if you aren't there?

How much are these services as they are beginning to sound VERY expensive.

How would one even KNOW if they are near the telephone switch? LOL

Thanks


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Sensualspirit, I am reasonably familiar with the offerings and options in Italy. You did not indicate any cost limitations, nor did I characterize any costs (which will vary). There are some Internet provider Web sites (in Italian) that provide reasonable estimates of wire distance to the central switch. I suggest giving those a try.

It's up to you to decide what Internet access solution you want, subject to the various limitations. As far as I can tell everyone is trying to be helpful and to provide you with as many options as possible to address the requirements you stated.


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## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

BBCWatcher said:


> Sensualspirit, I am reasonably familiar with the offerings and options in Italy. You did not indicate any cost limitations, nor did I characterize any costs (which will vary). There are some Internet provider Web sites (in Italian) that provide reasonable estimates of wire distance to the central switch. I suggest giving those a try.
> 
> It's up to you to decide what Internet access solution you want, subject to the various limitations. As far as I can tell everyone is trying to be helpful and to provide you with as many options as possible to address the requirements you stated.


I'm sorry that you feel I wasn't grateful for the information. I think my question about how you know what's here is a reasonable one.

And I didn't think I had to mention cost, as most people can't afford tons of money just for Internet.

All the best


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## Italia-Mx (Jan 14, 2009)

sensualspirit said:


> So do you even live in Italy? It says you are in Singapore.
> 
> How do you know what's in Italy if you aren't there?
> 
> ...


Good question and entirely reasonable. 

I live in Italy. I use Fastweb composed of Internet, Sky TV, free phone calls all over Italy. 49 Euro al mesi. Works fine.


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## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

Italia-Mx said:


> Good question and entirely reasonable.
> 
> I live in Italy. I use Fastweb composed of Internet, Sky TV, free phone calls all over Italy. 49 Euro al mesi. Works fine.


Ahh, I'm just looking for the Internet, I don't need phone or TV.

Where are you located & can you send me a link to your speed test from Speedtest.net by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test ?

Thanks


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## Cala di Luna (Jun 16, 2016)

if you don't care about phone, gaming or TV then you don't need a fast link, and flat rate ADSL over telephone line will be ok. As an example, for 39 Euros/month you will get a landline number with ADSL plus a mobile number which includes voice/sms/data (200 minutes / 200 msgs / 2 GByte). Actual ADSL speed will depend on distance from (and equipment in) telephone switch. You can enter area code + telephone number *here* to get location and switch equipment status, then you can estimate distance via Google maps. You can get mobile service only (100 minutes / 100 msgs / 1GByte) for less than 10 Euros per month. In my experience mobile Internet can be ok in less crowded areas, but again it depends on 2G/3G coverage (operators: TIM, Vodafone, Wind, Tre). A third option, popular in rural areas and mountainous terrain with poor ADSL, is "wireless Internet" (operators: *Eolo*, Linkem), which requires your home to be in line of sight with the base station.


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## Amblepup (May 3, 2016)

The Internet service in Italy,me end in rural areas has improved greatly, your nearest internet shop will tell you the best company for your area, I know that some huge companies like vodophone do not work well in many places, but to be fair to them, other companies do not serve well in certain areas. Lived in the mountains and still got a great speed and reliable connection, you need the best service for your area. Research locally as this forum is for the whole of Italy you cannot get all your questions asked here.


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## sensualspirit (Jul 7, 2010)

Amblepup said:


> The Internet service in Italy,me end in rural areas has improved greatly, your nearest internet shop will tell you the best company for your area, I know that some huge companies like vodophone do not work well in many places, but to be fair to them, other companies do not serve well in certain areas. Lived in the mountains and still got a great speed and reliable connection, you need the best service for your area. Research locally as this forum is for the whole of Italy you cannot get all your questions asked here.


Ok, thanks


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