# Amazon UK?



## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

When in the UK, we often ordered items from Amazon and we were always pleased with their service. Sometimes, an item would be despatched from 'Amazon SarL' (whatever that stands for) but the service was just the same, although the postmark would have indicated that the items were sent from Netherlands.

Here in Cyprus, I have read of some positive posts from expats regarding Amazon. In one case, I read that an iPad ordered one day was sent by courier and delivered the next day. I was aware from these posts, that generally, only items sold by Amazon could be sent to Cyprus. I therefore decided that it was worth my while ordering a surge protected extension lead with integrated USB ports (I could not find these anywhere locally). I paid £14.83 for the item plus £6.61 postage plus £4.08 VAT. The confirmation email from Amazon stated that the item had been sold by Amazon SarL with an estimated delivery date of 24 Dec 14.

It finally arrived in the Polis Post Office today, some 5 weeks later. The delay did not worry me BUT, the item was despatched from Switzerland - a non EU or EEA member. This resulted in a charge to me of €3.50 duty and €4.75 VAT! I felt it churlish to challenge the duty as clearly I would not win, so essentially I have paid VAT twice and an import duty which was not made clear at the point of sale. I have emailed Amazon to query why they despatched goods from a non EU country which resulted in an import duty and why, if they knew that the item was going to be sent from Switzerland they charged VAT at the point of sale when I would also have to pay it at the point of collection. I await a response but am not holding my breath. Just be aware of this if you order from Amazon!


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

David, Amazon is limited company registered in Luxembourg I think....SARL iin effect means "Ltd". Whilst it is true Switzerland is not part of the EEA, they are part of EFTA, European Free Trade Area, which includes Norway, Iceland and someone else....there are agreements between the EEA and EFTA which I am sure includes free movement of goods....I suspect you have fallen victim to the Cypriot practice of charging "Import" Tax when none is actually due.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Hudswell said:


> David, Amazon is limited company registered in Luxembourg I think....SARL iin effect means "Ltd". Whilst it is true Switzerland is not part of the EEA, they are part of EFTA, European Free Trade Area, which includes Norway, Iceland and someone else....there are agreements between the EEA and EFTA which I am sure includes free movement of goods....I suspect you have fallen victim to the Cypriot practice of charging "Import" Tax when none is actually due.


There is no free trade between Switzerland and EU. We have had business with them for many years and we always pay customs fees for goods we get from there and for goods we deliver. The company we trade with today has a smart solution. They have a warehouse in Germany and all goods go from there customs free.

so in this case the customs have full right to charge vat and customs fee. But Amazon did wrong as i see it


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## zach21uk (Jun 26, 2014)

I got an item from Amazon USA yesterday and of course paid import duty on it. I am still waiting for a 12-in-1 steam cleaner that I ordered from Amazon UK to arrive. According to the tracking number, it was dispatched from Germany, so I shouldn't be charged anything upon arrival, but we shall see. It should arrive sometime in the next few days. I will let you all know.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

I would always challenge any request for payment and show the full VAT receipt from the sale. From what I have heard in the past the Post Office won't bother to argue. I have to say I have no personal experience of this as I have never had any attempt to charge duty or VAT regardless of where my goods came from.

I would certainly pursue this with Amazon now if your receipt and therefore the sales contract were not made in Switzerland.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

zach21uk said:


> I got an item from Amazon USA yesterday and of course paid import duty on it. I am still waiting for a 12-in-1 steam cleaner that I ordered from Amazon UK to arrive. According to the tracking number, it was dispatched from Germany, so I shouldn't be charged anything upon arrival, but we shall see. It should arrive sometime in the next few days. I will let you all know.


Don't expect to much if it come with DHL, meaning Cyprus Post in this end. Normally take 3-5 days from shipped to reach Larnaca, then it get stuck there 3-4 weeks. It's normal and happen to all our German packages


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I would always challenge any request for payment and show the full VAT receipt from the sale. From what I have heard in the past the Post Office won't bother to argue. I have to say I have no personal experience of this as I have never had any attempt to charge duty or VAT regardless of where my goods came from.
> 
> I would certainly pursue this with Amazon now if your receipt and therefore the sales contract were not made in Switzerland.
> 
> Pete


I had a fairly swift response from Amazon which addressed the length of time taken for delivery and the subject of VAT. Basically, Amazon have refunded £7.87 which has satisfied me (even though I have paid VAT twice for the same product, thanks to Cyprus Customs). For the sake of completeness, this is their full response:


_*Hello David, 

My name is Michelle. I've picked up your e-mail today and I'll do my very best to help you with your query. 

Further to your email, I'm sorry to hear that your order arrived so late, and you were charged customs and VAT for this order. 

To try to make up for the trouble of your parcel being delivered late, I've requested a refund of the delivery charges for this parcel. 

Refunds usually go through in 2 to 3 business days so a credit of £7.87 should appear on your next card statement. Please note, this doesn't include processing time by your bank. 

In accordance with the laws governing members of the European Union, Amazon.co.uk is obliged to register and charge for VAT on all orders delivered to destinations in member countries of the EU. 

When VAT applies to an order, the relevant charges will be clearly reflected on your e-mail confirmations and invoices at your local rate. 

"Our Price", as displayed on an item’s product detail page, is inclusive of UK VAT. 

It isn’t possible for us to show "Our Price" as VAT-inclusive for non-UK orders because the delivery address is unknown. The different EU countries have differing VAT rates, so the calculation must be done during the ordering process, after the delivery address has been entered. 

Once you select a delivery address during check out, we re-calculate the price by deducting the UK VAT, then adding the applicable VAT rate for your order’s destination. You can review the full order details, including the complete cost, before finalising your order. 

To find the applicable VAT rates for your country please visit the following URL: 

Amazon.co.uk Help: VAT Rates 

Please remember that VAT charges only apply to orders being sent to member countries of the EU. 

Further information can be found on the Payment Options and VAT page in our Help section, which can be found at the following URL: 

Amazon.co.uk Help: VAT & Invoices 

Orders that are dispatched to countries outside the U.K. may be subject to import taxes, customs duties, and fees charged by the destination country. Amazon Export Sales will estimate and collect an import fees deposit to certain destination countries. These funds will be used by the carrier or another agent to pay the import fees on your behalf to the appropriate authorities when your package reaches the destination country. The estimated import fees deposit will be displayed in the cost summary on the last page of our online order form, just before you submit your order. 

Because orders are dispatched from the United Kingdom, the value declaration is shown in GBP regardless of the currency you used to pay for your order. Your country's customs authorities will convert GBP into local currency for calculating export fees if required. 

To obtain details regarding the Actual Import Fees, or to obtain documentation or receipts in connection with customs clearance, you must contact the carrier specified in your order confirmation e-mail. 

To learn more about the import fees deposit, please visit our Help pages: 

Amazon.co.uk Help: About Import Fees Deposit 

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused, David.

Warmest regards,
Michelle R*_


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> I had a fairly swift response from Amazon which addressed the length of time taken for delivery and the subject of VAT. Basically, Amazon have refunded £7.87 which has satisfied me (even though I have paid VAT twice for the same product, thanks to Cyprus Customs). For the sake of completeness, this is their full response:
> 
> 
> _*Hello David,
> ...


I am very confused by this answer. For the last ten years we have privately been very active sellers on Ebay with customers all over Europe. The Vat charged to the customer is the Vat in the country we sell from, because it is the tax authority in that country that will get the VAT charged. 

I can't see any problem with that you have paid VaT to Cyprus customs on a shipment from Switzerland, it is no difference between Switzerland and US in this case. The last four years living in Germany I have spent many ours waiting for customs clearence by the swiss customs while they calculate VAT and other fees that has to be paid on all import goods


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## zach21uk (Jun 26, 2014)

Just wanted to post and state that I received my second item from Amazon, the steam cleaner, 3 days ago and I paid no additional fees or taxes on it. It was delivered to my door without incident.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

I think it fair to say that apart from the personalisation bits at the beginning and the end, that was a standard boilerplate response from Amazon UK.

The refund they gave was clearly qualified as a refund of delivery charge thus avoiding opening any can of worms relating to duty and VAT. As you are satisfied with the refund, that's good enough.

Of course you now know for next time to try to challenge the Post Office people when they try to charge you. You never know, they may back off.

Pete


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## Seawind (Apr 4, 2015)

I purchased via Amazon UK some accessories, but I was asked by the Cyprus Post to pay extra duties/VAT just because "the envelope was sent from Asia", apparently my Amazon UK invoice and arguments were not good enough. They said to file a complaint with Amazon...very uncooperative people. 

Although I'll probably get my money back from Amazon/ seller, I wonder if this is the standard practice here, and I should expect this every time from now on...?


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Seawind said:


> I purchased via Amazon UK some accessories, but I was asked by the Cyprus Post to pay extra duties/VAT just because "the envelope was sent from Asia", apparently my Amazon UK invoice and arguments were not good enough. They said to file a complaint with Amazon...very uncooperative people.
> 
> Although I'll probably get my money back from Amazon/ seller, I wonder if this is the standard practice here, and I should expect this every time from now on...?


You are unlikely to get any VAT money back from Amazon which has correctly levied VAT according to EU regulations (See Amazon.co.uk Help: VAT Rates).

Amazon is not in the wrong in such cases as yours and mine - that mantle goes to Cyprus customs. Despite pointing out the problem to Amazon, the money they reimbursed me was for late delivery. As it amounted to a similar amount as the extra VAT imposed by Cyprus customs, I let the matter drop.

Cyprus customs officials are clearly in breach of EU directives but you will get as much satisfaction from telling them that as you will get in telling a brick wall.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> You are unlikely to get any VAT money back from Amazon which has correctly levied VAT according to EU regulations (See Amazon.co.uk Help: VAT Rates).
> 
> Amazon is not in the wrong in such cases as yours and mine - that mantle goes to Cyprus customs. Despite pointing out the problem to Amazon, the money they reimbursed me was for late delivery. As it amounted to a similar amount as the extra VAT imposed by Cyprus customs, I let the matter drop.
> 
> Cyprus customs officials are clearly in breach of EU directives but you will get as much satisfaction from telling them that as you will get in telling a brick wall.


NO NO. The customs do it correct. The package is sent from outside EU and you will have to pay customs fees, in this case VAT. Amazon is wrong but they cant handle it. It is not important that Amazon is inside the EU, the real seller is outside. Would happen in any EU country


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## Seawind (Apr 4, 2015)

Based on what I've seen so far, I have to agree with you David & Letitia...so from now on, suppose I just need to keep my fingers crossed that my parcels would arrive with no extra unnecessary 'checks' ? 

Besides, there are so many sellers on AmazonUK who state they are UK based, but actually the parcels are being sent from the Far East and other non-EU origins. 

All in all, very confusing as well as unprofessional.
Anyways, Happy Easter


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Seawind said:


> Based on what I've seen so far, I have to agree with you David & Letitia...so from now on, suppose I just need to keep my fingers crossed that my parcels would arrive with no extra unnecessary 'checks' ?
> 
> Besides, there are so many sellers on AmazonUK who state they are UK based, but actually the parcels are being sent from the Far East and other non-EU origins.
> 
> ...


Why is it unprofessional? (a mis-use of the word, of course) Was there any deceit or wrongdoing by anyone? I always see it stated on Amazon where the goods come from.

Happy Easter to you but it's not Easter here yet!

Pete


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## Seawind (Apr 4, 2015)

Pete, I was charged twice VAT and other taxes.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Seawind said:


> Pete, I was charged twice VAT and other taxes.


But that is an Amazon problem, they can`t handle. The customs have all right to charge VAT on goods coming from outside EU


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## Talagirl (Feb 24, 2013)

Slightly off topic, but related - We get official mail that originates in the UK but is posted from another country - were told that it is more cost effective than sending the documents direct from UK to Cyprus.


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## Seawind (Apr 4, 2015)

Speaking of cost effectiveness, I was charged here ten euros for an order of 35eur (shipping included). So I should have just bought directly from China for a fraction of the final cost!

Also, I would have expected to be a limit on imports under which you are not charged by the local customs, but it seems I was charged on the full order.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Seawind said:


> Speaking of cost effectiveness, I was charged here ten euros for an order of 35eur (shipping included). So I should have just bought directly from China for a fraction of the final cost!
> 
> Also, I would have expected to be a limit on imports under which you are not charged by the local customs, but it seems I was charged on the full order.


The limit is 17 €

It seems that you are p....d with the local customs. They have done all by the book. Perhaps you should have investigated more before you bought.


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## Seawind (Apr 4, 2015)

PeteandSylv said:


> Why is it unprofessional? (a mis-use of the word, of course) Was there any deceit or wrongdoing by anyone? I always see it stated on Amazon where the goods come from.
> 
> Pete


To me it happened that the sellers stated they were UK based and it was clear where the good are sent from (non EU origins) only after the order was placed. I even contacted a few which reconfirmed to me in writing that the origin was UK, but the reality obviously differed. Also their sales terms state clearly that the prices displayed are final and inclusive of VAT and any other taxes applicable. After being charged twice VAT and taxes, I would say that the whole system could be pretty deceitful from a buyer's perspective. Yes I can't blame Amazon, they are great in general and helpful and don't handle directly the shipments made by some of their sellers, like in this case.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Seawind said:


> To me it happened that the sellers stated they were UK based and it was clear where the good are sent from (non EU origins) only after the order was placed. I even contacted a few which reconfirmed to me in writing that the origin was UK, but the reality obviously differed. Also their sales terms state clearly that the prices displayed are final and inclusive of VAT and any other taxes applicable. After being charged twice VAT and taxes, I would say that the whole system could be pretty deceitful from a buyer's perspective. Yes I can't blame Amazon, they are great in general and helpful and don't handle directly the shipments made by some of their sellers, like in this case.


I think that you really can blame Amazon, because they should be able to have a system that allow them to not charge VAT on these sales. If the seller states that it is shipped from UK and it is not, that is really fraud. The VAT will ofc never be paid to the UK VAT authority because the goods never see UK.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> NO NO. The customs do it correct. The package is sent from outside EU and you will have to pay customs fees, in this case VAT. Amazon is wrong but they cant handle it. It is not important that Amazon is inside the EU, the real seller is outside. Would happen in any EU country


I do not think that you are correct Anders. I believe that Amazon are entirely correct within EU regulations.

See this link:

EUROPA - Cross-border VAT: buying & selling inside and out of the EU - Your Europe


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Doesn't this depend on whether the contract to purchase was made with Amazon or with a seller outside the EU?

Pete


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> Doesn't this depend on whether the contract to purchase was made with Amazon or with a seller outside the EU?
> 
> Pete


This is a bit of a minefield, but it seems to me that ultimately, Amazon is the vendor, even though the goods may originate from outside the EU ('fulfilled by Amazon' is, I think, the term used). If this is the case, then Amazon is bound by EU regulations which requires them to charge VAT in the country of the final consumer. If the goods did not arrive or were faulty, surely Amazon accepts full responsibility for refunds?

It would seem rather silly for Amazon to import the goods to their warehouse first and then send the good out to the consumer, so it seems eminently sensible to have an arrangement for goods to be sent direct, but the order is 'fulfilled by Amazon' as the vendor.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

David_&_Letitia said:


> This is a bit of a minefield, but it seems to me that ultimately, Amazon is the vendor, even though the goods may originate from outside the EU ('fulfilled by Amazon' is, I think, the term used). If this is the case, then Amazon is bound by EU regulations which requires them to charge VAT in the country of the final consumer. If the goods did not arrive or were faulty, surely Amazon accepts full responsibility for refunds?
> 
> It would seem rather silly for Amazon to import the goods to their warehouse first and then send the good out to the consumer, so it seems eminently sensible to have an arrangement for goods to be sent direct, but the order is 'fulfilled by Amazon' as the vendor.


I may be wrong but I was under the impression that "fulfilled by Amazon" meant that they held the stock of the item and dispatched it. Not all of their sales are expressed that way when Amazon is a sales medium for external vendors who ship directly.

Small Business Encyclopedia

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> This is a bit of a minefield, but it seems to me that ultimately, Amazon is the vendor, even though the goods may originate from outside the EU ('fulfilled by Amazon' is, I think, the term used). If this is the case, then Amazon is bound by EU regulations which requires them to charge VAT in the country of the final consumer. If the goods did not arrive or were faulty, surely Amazon accepts full responsibility for refunds?
> 
> It would seem rather silly for Amazon to import the goods to their warehouse first and then send the good out to the consumer, so it seems eminently sensible to have an arrangement for goods to be sent direct, but the order is 'fulfilled by Amazon' as the vendor.


A question arise. How can the customs know that it come from Amazon, and not from one of all private vendors that sell through Amazon?

All that customs know is that this package country of origin is outside the EU and should pay applicable fees depending on country and content.

The last ten years we have bought and sold a lot, both on Amazon and Ebay. Never I have got a package from an Amazon seller that states that it is a Amazon product. And we have never stated that what we sell is an Amazon product.

I agree this is a djungle, but in my opinion the customs have full right to charge import duty


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Baywatch said:


> A question arise. How can the customs know that it come from Amazon, and not from one of all private vendors that sell through Amazon?
> 
> All that customs know is that this package country of origin is outside the EU and should pay applicable fees depending on country and content.
> 
> ...


Forgot

And if you are right, who pay the import VAT on the goods. Someone should do it.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> A question arise. How can the customs know that it come from Amazon, and not from one of all private vendors that sell through Amazon?
> 
> All that customs know is that this package country of origin is outside the EU and should pay applicable fees depending on country and content.
> 
> ...


Customs (sometimes through the Post Office) ask for the invoice. The invoice clearly shows the vendor and the duty (if any) paid. I know that these invoices can very easily be forged on a PC but it is still Cyprus customs which asks for it - bizarrely in my opinion. In my experience, the packages have not been opened to check that the contents are actually what the invoice says they are. I therefore see 2 scenarios here:

1. Cyprus customs ask for but don't actually take note of the contents of the invoice. If they did, they would note the VAT paid.

2. Cyprus customs ask for the invoice in order to value the goods in order to levy their duty. This is my belief BUT they levy VAT on the gross value which already includes VAT which they either ignore or simply do not look for.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> Forgot
> 
> And if you are right, who pay the import VAT on the goods. Someone should do it.


This is the whole nub of the issue being discussed. 

Under EU regulations, a vendor who is above the VAT threshold is responsible for levying VAT at the applicable rate of the country within the EU which the goods are being shipped to. 

The lowest rate is in Luxenburg at 17% and the highest rate is Hungary at 27%.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I may be wrong but I was under the impression that "fulfilled by Amazon" meant that they held the stock of the item and dispatched it. Not all of their sales are expressed that way when Amazon is a sales medium for external vendors who ship directly.
> 
> Small Business Encyclopedia
> 
> Pete


...still in the minefield, but surely, most retail outlets (Tesco, Sainsbury etc) are fulfilment outlets, but are legally liable direct to the purchaser under the Sale of Goods Act. If I buy a kettle from Tesco and it is found to be faulty, they are responsible to me for replacement. They do not (and are not legally allowed) to refer me back to the manufacturer for satisfaction as my contract is with Tesco. The same must surely apply to Amazon?


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

PeteandSylv said:


> I may be wrong but I was under the impression that "fulfilled by Amazon" meant that they held the stock of the item and dispatched it. Not all of their sales are expressed that way when Amazon is a sales medium for external vendors who ship directly.
> 
> Small Business Encyclopedia
> 
> Pete


I have just looked on Amazon and in every case the item I looked at stated clearly the name of the vendor, who was dispatching the item and if it was fulfilled by Amazon.

It is not so easy to see the country the item will be dispatched from unless it is volunteered.

The Amazon checkout does not separately state the VAT levied on the sale.

Coupled with the complex VAT regulations of the EU it is a dreadfully confused state of affairs.

Pete


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

David_&_Letitia said:


> ...still in the minefield, but surely, most retail outlets (Tesco, Sainsbury etc) are fulfilment outlets, but are legally liable direct to the purchaser under the Sale of Goods Act. If I buy a kettle from Tesco and it is found to be faulty, they are responsible to me for replacement. They do not (and are not legally allowed) to refer me back to the manufacturer for satisfaction as my contract is with Tesco. The same must surely apply to Amazon?


That's a slightly different issue. In this discussion we are not concerned with the manufacturer of the goods but the seller.

If you look on the Tesco site they, like Amazon, clearly state who the vendor is.

I have not looked at and am not clear on the situation regarding Amazon or Tesco etc advertising goods on behalf of vendors who do their own fulfillment. Does this make them the vendor for the buyer or is there another state where they are just acting as an agent and collecting money on behalf of the vendor? The nearest other example I can think of would be an Avon agent who takes orders and collects money but the sale and after sale responsibility resides with Avon.

If Amazon act as an agent for a vendor in, say Hong Kong, would the Hong Kong tax laws apply to the sale so that Amazon do not collect EU VAT and the relevant VAT is due to be paid by the buyer in the EU on receipt?

Minefields within minefields!!

Pete


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I have just looked on Amazon and in every case the item I looked at stated clearly the name of the vendor, who was dispatching the item and if it was fulfilled by Amazon.
> 
> It is not so easy to see the country the item will be dispatched from unless it is volunteered.
> 
> ...


I agree that it is dreadfully complex and I do not claim to be an expert in such matters.

However I suspect that Amazon, as a major international company, are likely to have far more expertise than the individuals working in Cyprus customs when it comes to matters of VAT and consumer law. It is frustrating that the latter are asking for invoices which clearly show where VAT has been paid but are still levying VAT on the final consumer.

Having said all that, Amazon is a complex structure with items sold directly by them, or 'fulfilled' by them. It seems that they also have an EBay type system for some sellers called 'Marketplace'. 

I concede to Anders that if a vendor based in, say China, is using the Amazon 'Marketplace', no VAT should be applicable at the point of sale and if the contract was between an EU purchaser and such a company, the Cyprus customs would be entirely correct in levying VAT. If the customer has previously been charged VAT by the vendor, then they have probably been ripped off by the vendor.

Although it's a little vague, the Amazon strap line is, when purchasing from Marketplace traders, customers should contact the seller direct:

Amazon.co.uk Help: Contact Marketplace Sellers

As always, however, Caveat Emptor!


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> That's a slightly different issue. In this discussion we are not concerned with the manufacturer of the goods but the seller.
> 
> If you look on the Tesco site they, like Amazon, clearly state who the vendor is.
> 
> ...


I expect that in most instances, the laws of the land in which the vendor is based will always apply and if Hong Kong has a purchase tax similar to our VAT then that tax *may* be payable to the country of origin and VAT *should* be applied by customs here. Of course, Hong Kong law may allow tax free sales outside it's area of jurisdiction. The EU beast is somewhat different. Amazon are based in Luxembourg for tax reasons. It also has the lowest VAT rate in the EU, but the commission has ensured that the rate to be applied is the rate of the country where the item is actually consumed within the EU. Of course if goods were to be sent from the EU to Hong Kong, they could be sold VAT free and no doubt Hong Kong customs would impose a purchase tax on arrival in the country.

Just to muddy the waters further, supposing that the Hong Kong vendor is selling digital material (music, videos etc) then it seems that VAT will not be payable as the goods or services will bypass customs. I wonder, for example, what web developers based here would charge in VAT (if they were above the threshold) for a customer based in:

a. Cyprus
b. Luxembourg
C. Hong Kong


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> I expect that in most instances, the laws of the land in which the vendor is based will always apply and if Hong Kong has a purchase tax similar to our VAT then that tax *may* be payable to the country of origin and VAT *should* be applied by customs here. Of course, Hong Kong law may allow tax free sales outside it's area of jurisdiction. The EU beast is somewhat different. Amazon are based in Luxembourg for tax reasons. It also has the lowest VAT rate in the EU, but the commission has ensured that the rate to be applied is the rate of the country where the item is actually consumed within the EU. Of course if goods were to be sent from the EU to Hong Kong, they could be sold VAT free and no doubt Hong Kong customs would impose a purchase tax on arrival in the country.
> 
> Just to muddy the waters further, supposing that the Hong Kong vendor is selling digital material (music, videos etc) then it seems that VAT will not be payable as the goods or services will bypass customs. I wonder, for example, what web developers based here would charge in VAT (if they were above the threshold) for a customer based in:
> 
> ...


Just for fun, I contacted the Swedish customs and asked how they see on this.

The man said that this is really very simple. They always go for the country of origin, meaning from where the goods is sent, inside or outside EU. AND he said that some country in EU must charge the import tax, and the normal is that the import ax is charged in the country where the buyer is. If the goods first come to UK, the goods will not be charged tax in UK because it is in transit to another EU country. If the goods buyer is in Cyprus, the customs here should charge the VAT.

This legislation is used to avoid VAT fraud


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> Just for fun, I contacted the Swedish customs and asked how they see on this.
> 
> The man said that this is really very simple. They always go for the country of origin, meaning from where the goods is sent, inside or outside EU. AND he said that some country in EU must charge the import tax, and the normal is that the import ax is charged in the country where the buyer is. If the goods first come to UK, the goods will not be charged tax in UK because it is in transit to another EU country. If the goods buyer is in Cyprus, the customs here should charge the VAT.
> 
> This legislation is used to avoid VAT fraud


OK Anders,

I cannot argue with the advice given to you by Swedish customs officials. All I have to go on is my personal experience and what I have read of others experience plus any 'official' information found on the web.

1. In my opening post, I reported that I ordered from Amazon UK (the item was from Masterplug but "dispatched from and sold by Amazon"). I paid VAT on the order at the point of sale. When the item was delivered, the postmark was Switzerland and Cyprus customs, through the Post Office, requested the invoice. This confirmed that the item cost £14.83 plus £6.61 postage (total £21.44) and that the Cyprus rate of 19% VAT had been correctly charged and paid by me amounting to £4.08. Despite this, Cyprus customs charged me €3.50 'import duty' and €4.75 VAT. I know that it cannot possibly be correct to pay VAT twice, and I am sure that if this scenario were to be related to the Swedish customs official, he would agree. The VAT threshold in Cyprus, under which no VAT should be paid is €17.09, so I have no problem paying VAT but it had already been levied by Amazon and paid by me in this case. Even if the goods had actually been dispatched from Switzerland (which I very much doubt, despite the postmark) although it is not in the EU or EEA, Switzerland is a member of EFTA (the European Free Trade Association) so the goods should have been treated as though they had originated in an EU country. As far as import duty is concerned, it is my understanding that Cyprus is meant to waive import duty for goods below the threshold of €150 (Import duty & taxes when importing into Cyprus - DutyCalculator Help Center)

2. In his post, Seawind explained that in respect of the items he purchased from Amazon UK, during the ordering process the sellers stated that both they and the country of origin of the goods was UK, but the reality was Asia according to the postmark. That is an issue of trust and I can only assume that the seller has lied about their location in order to inflate the selling price (and their profits) by incorrectly charging VAT. Under these circumstances, I would encourage Seawind to complain to Amazon about the vendor. Whilst he may not get a refund, Amazon should be able to impose sanctions on the vendor for mis-representing themselves and the origin of their goods. As Seawind has stated himself, if he had been aware of the mis-representation, he would have bought the goods direct from China at a fraction of the final cost he ended up paying. Clearly, if Seawind had purchased directly from China, then Cyprus customs charges would apply. I don't know the breakdown of what Seawind paid, but the total of €10 for €35 goods & shipping appears at first glance to be excessive. As I have stated above, the amount appears to be under the import tax threshold and 19% VAT applied to €35 is €6.65. Seawind (or anyone else for that matter) could check what duty is payable using the calculator (New Import Duty & Taxes Calculation | DutyCalculator).

Amazon state that where necessary, they levy an estimate of import duty at the point of sale which is payable "by the carrier or another agent" on the customers behalf. See Amazon.com Help: About Import Fees Deposit


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

It seems to me that the minefield of regulations and the complex nature of Amazon's trading relationships causes misunderstandings and incorrect charging.

David has clearly set out the 2 problems and it is difficult to argue with his interpretation of events and regulations. This suggests that some actions of the Cyprus Post Office are incorrect. I find it hard to believe that illegal charges are policy and suggest that over zealous or ignorant charges have been made. My impression of many officials here suggest it is unlikely that the operatives would have received effective training in their tasks.

Under these circumstances the charges at the CPO should have been strongly resisted and a demand for referral to a more senior authority made at the time. However this did not seem to have happened so I suggest it is essential to follow up by referring the matter to the Citizen's Advice Office who are most helpful. If they cannot undertake to deal with it they will point you to the correct authority. In addition the complaint to Amazon as suggested must be made and if this is fruitless the matter should be taken further via the UK European Consumer Centre: UK European Consumer Centre - Home

It is of no value to ignore the situation and have it occur again. Discussions on this forum are all very well in understanding problems but corrective follow-up action is needed in the correct place.

It would be best if the whole matter could be sorted prior to my next purchase.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> OK Anders,
> 
> I cannot argue with the advice given to you by Swedish customs officials. All I have to go on is my personal experience and what I have read of others experience plus any 'official' information found on the web.
> 
> ...


I will just correct you on one point. Switzerland is NOT in the customs union. Goods TO Switzerland will be charged tax by the Swizz border and goods FROM Switzerland to EU will be charged tax by the EU border. I lived in Germany before I came to Cyprus and was involved in a company that transported medicin all over Europe from Germany. The worst trip was always the ones to Switzerland because you had to spend so much time by the Swiss border to get customs clearance.

For me it is still clear that the problem is with Amazon, Cyprus customs do the right thing.

Imagine what will happen if someone set up a company in UK, selling goods online. All goods come from China. Sent directly to the customer inside EU. WHO pay the import tax? Someone must do it. Otherwise all goods will enter EU tax free.

The link you refer to is from Amazon US about goods sent to countries outside US. Just a remark


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> It is not so easy to see the country the item will be dispatched from unless it is volunteered.
> Pete


My latest order from Amazon was placed last week, and I have attached a screenshot of the tracking information below. I trust that Amazon and the carrier know what they are doing, but I personally cannot see the economic sense in sending my package to 2 different locations in Germany first.

I just hope that they don't decide to send it via Switzerland as the next stop - for whatever reason!


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

David_&_Letitia said:


> My latest order from Amazon was placed last week, and I have attached a screenshot of the tracking information below. I trust that Amazon and the carrier know what they are doing, but I personally cannot see the economic sense in sending my package to 2 different locations in Germany first.
> 
> I just hope that they don't decide to send it via Switzerland as the next stop - for whatever reason!


While the economic sense is not obvious there are often good reasons for this. Many carriers have large sorting hubs in order to shift goods in bulk to other areas. There may also be a handover to another company for further delivery in an area/country where the original carrier does not operate.

This is something I would not question as the carriers you might use directly and also the logistics operation of Amazon are amazingly efficient operations. A recent parcel I had delivered to my daughter in the UK could be tracked on a map showing exactly where the delivery van was on it's round!

Pete


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## zach21uk (Jun 26, 2014)

On another note - some people may have bad experience with Amazon, but Liz and I just had an amazing experience with Amazon USA. 

Liz's mom is sick in the hospital right now back in the states and we were trying to order a few bits from Amazon to send to her that she asked for - a pre-paid cell phone, a large box of candy and a couple of books. About $50 dollars of stuff in total.

For some unknown reason, Amazon kept declining my payment and nobody could figure out why. There were funds on the card and the same card had been used for another order a few weeks ago.

When the rep couldn't figure out the problem, rather than sending me away empty-handed, he credited the entire order for FREE and upgraded it to include next day delivery which is normally like $25 dollars more!

Liz and I were shocked. The person in question deserves a medal.

Most of the time we all get upset at people who are just doing their jobs and following company policy, but then, this also seems to be a company that will allow its employees to do little amazing things sometimes that really can make a difference.

Just wanted to let everyone here know how awesome our experience was with them today.


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