# Outrageous ACS policy for Months and Years deduction



## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

Dear all,

I just received an ACS report today, however I am totally outraged by the assessment.

First of all, they are cutting 2 years of work experience for no good reason, even though I have a proper 4 years bachelors degree (not a 3 years, or 2 years one)! This previously was never deducted, for example back in 2012.

Furthermore, if thats not bad enough, they have excluded the last month of every job period I have submitted - resulting in a very crucial shortage of 1 month from the 3 years minimum required to get any point from experience in a skills based Subclass visa category.

For example,

1) At 1 company, I worked from February 1st to June 30th. However, I suppose they have some pointless policy that excludes the entire month of June (the full of which I have indeed worked), resulting in 4 months instead of 5 months.

2) Similarly, at another company, I worked for 12 months exact. However I got 11 months.

3) next, at my current job, the letter was published on 22nd April, and they did start the assessment on 27th April.. and I still didnt get the month of April counted in.

Please anyone tell me how to get it corrected without paying AUD500 again and without wasting time again.


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

If my memory serves me right, They did it before to others, and if its in their policy, no point fighting over it...

If you are short by just 1 month, submit your EOI after you complete 1 more month at work, and collect latest Ref Letters and Pay docs ... there's high chance that IT categories will be there too in coming July..


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

I have seen a 2012 ACS report, of similar to my credentials... and they got full years without deduction of 2 yrs..

Also, by now I already have 2 months above it, but AUD500 wasted for no good reason !!


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## bond_bhai (Jan 26, 2012)

Rah1x said:


> I have seen a 2012 ACS report, of similar to my credentials... and they got full years without deduction of 2 yrs..
> 
> Also, by now I already have 2 months above it, but AUD500 wasted for no good reason !!


Well, they changed the rules. I guess 2013 onwards. Imagine, i have 10 years exp and they shaved off 4 years! I should have got 15 points, but no, i had to claim only 10. Can't help it m8, just carry on. 
However, i am curious as to why they deducted 1 month of every job. Did you mail them and check?


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

Rah1x said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I just received an ACS report today, however I am totally outraged by the assessment.
> 
> ...


if you were reading their assessment guidelines, you wouldn't be outraged on what was already the set expectation. 

and acs only counts the month not the days within. and i believe you're the one who fills it up during the onlilne application right? so you would have filled your form up from Feb YY - Jun YY not Feb 1 YY to Jun YY? You could ask for a review on that one month you have qualms about. but then again, in 1 month when you get your invite, your EOI should be adjusted with that 1 month


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

bond_bhai said:


> Well, they changed the rules. I guess 2013 onwards. Imagine, i have 10 years exp and they shaved off 4 years! I should have got 15 points, but no, i had to claim only 10. Can't help it m8, just carry on.
> However, i am curious as to why they deducted 1 month of every job. Did you mail them and check?


Well that totally sucks... because there should be some merit for years cutting !!

Also, I think they deducted last month because they only count month numbers.. which totally sucks.. I mean whats the point of me doing whole month for the last month of any job i ever did? I never gets counted...

And if that is so true, that should be the first thing in bold and super large letters in any ACS guide that your need to leave your job on the 1st of next month and not 30th of last month as you will waste 30 days...


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

tipzstamatic said:


> if you were reading their assessment guidelines, you wouldn't be outraged on what was already the set expectation.
> 
> and acs only counts the month not the days within. and i believe you're the one who fills it up during the onlilne application right? so you would have filled your form up from Feb YY - Jun YY not Feb 1 YY to Jun YY? You could ask for a review on that one month you have qualms about. but then again, in 1 month when you get your invite, your EOI should be adjusted with that 1 month


Yea it says it counts months... So from 02/06 to 06/06, it would count 02, 03, 04, 05, 06? Because thats what I thought !


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

so, what to do now? Refile? because I do have 2 more months on the current job since I filed ACS... . but that would make me miss July at eoi when its all reset I suppose...


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## sunnyboi (Jul 10, 2013)

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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

sunnyboi said:


> Welcome to the first step in Australian immigration!  For the next steps, read the fine print and read this forums thread extensively before taking any steps, to avoid high BP


very funny


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## bond_bhai (Jan 26, 2012)

Rah1x said:


> so, what to do now? Refile? because I do have 2 more months on the current job since I filed ACS... . but that would make me miss July at eoi when its all reset I suppose...


When you say you have 2 months, i assume it should take you over 3 years. If the 2months is with the same company that was assessed with ACS, you can claim points for those by providing "sufficient" proofs like Payslips/Bank Statements/Tax returns. So, you dont need to file again.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

bond_bhai said:


> When you say you have 2 months, i assume it should take you over 3 years. If the 2months is with the same company that was assessed with ACS, you can claim points for those by providing "sufficient" proofs like Payslips/Bank Statements/Tax returns. So, you dont need to file again.


hmmm ok.. But cant I just have the ACS update it?
Or make them count the months they deducted?


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## bond_bhai (Jan 26, 2012)

You can email them back mentioning the actual start and end dates and ask them if they can correct it. It has worked for a few members where the "ACS" has made a mistake.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

ok great idea.. let me try that...


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

I just checked the FAQ of ACS:
Review & Appeal | Australian Computer Society

Q} I had 3 years and 6 months experience at the time of application, but now I have over 4 years in total. Can I lodge a Review application?

A} No. You should not apply for a Review of your assessment, because work experience can only be considered up to the date of initial application received. What you should do in this instance is to apply for a new assessment application with a current employer reference.


So there is no chance of saving anything from previous assessment!!


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Can you post the report removing personal information? May be there is something wrong..


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

well,

look at this:

------------------------------------------------

The following employment after May 2011 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261312 (Developer Programmer) of the ANZSCO Code.

Dates: 02/06 - 06/06 (0yrs 4mths)
Position: Developer
Employer: XXX
Country: XXX

Dates: 07/09 - 06/10 (0yrs 11mths)
Position: Developer (PHP)
Employer: XXX
Country: XXX

Dates: 08/10 - 01/14 (3yrs 5mths)
Position: Senior PHP Developer
Employer: XXX
Country: XXX

Dates: 01/14 - 04/14 (0yrs 3mths)
Position: Senior Web Developer
Employer: XXX
Country: XXX

------------------------------------------------

The only thing I got correct was "3yrs 5mths" for job no 3, because it was direct continuous to next job.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

I just checked mine and it was also calculated just like yours. But since I wasn't having a neck to neck situation like yours I overlooked it. Nevertheless you can lodge your EOI on July 1st week only, I'm guessing.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

Ok... so should i redo the acs application process? Or is there another way?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Rah1x said:


> Ok... so should i redo the acs application process? Or is there another way?


 I dont think you need to re do the assessment. You are not asking them to assess more/new information you want them to verify the information correctly prior to date of applying. 

You need to email them and tell them they have made an error and you want it correcting. 

Give all your employment dates, explain the documents you provided for the assessment proved these dates. 

They will either correct it or come back and say we left 1 month off each because of xyz stupid policy.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

Ok... i have emailed them.. also created a ticket at acs support... lets see what donthey reply tomorrow....


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## happybuddha (Sep 28, 2012)

_shel said:


> You need to email them and tell them they have made an error and you want it correcting.
> .


And OP, these people do make mistakes. They screwed up my evaluation too, back in the day. I emailed them with all the facts, pointed out the mistake, told them what should be the correct information on the report. In a day or two they sent me a new evaluation


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## varun71863 (Apr 25, 2014)

when did you submitted your ACS? on 26 April? because i have submitted on 23rd April and still waiting for the results.

Its in stage 4 " with assesor"


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## Kingslayer (Jun 2, 2014)

Same here, submitted on 23rd April and in stage 4. We'l get it next week hopefully :fingerscrossed:


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

If I'm not wrong the ACS process is outsourced to some stupid third world non English speaking country. If you notice their replies is all cut N paste from some of their policy book. Also their spellings and grammar clearly say it. I once got a response something on the lines,.. "no update. We no tell."..


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## Kingslayer (Jun 2, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> If I'm not wrong the ACS process is outsourced to some stupid third world non English speaking country. If you notice their replies is all cut N paste from some of their policy book. Also their spellings and grammar clearly say it. I once got a response something on the lines,.. "no update. We no tell."..


ROFL :lol::rofl:


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

well, yea I did submit on 27th April... but I got it yesterday.... I had a fewer no. of companies for them to verify i guess...


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

ok I just got a reply from ACS:

"As per the ACS requirements all applicants are required to meet the ACS requirements and guidelines. Please refer to the ACS summary of criteria as this will explain the requirements."

This is totally outrageous... 

I have read the guide several times, it says that ACS will count the months - it doesnot say that it will ignore the last month.

So from 02/06 to 06/06, it would be 02, 03, 04, 05 and 06 !! that would be a total of 5 months..

However, their report and their reply is totally outrageous.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Did you clearly mention the same line that you wrote above regarding how to count the months?

Was it a generic response you got ? And not specific to your case ?


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Did you clearly mention the same line that you wrote above regarding how to count the months?
> 
> Was it a generic response you got ? And not specific to your case ?


Yea I did it yesterday, and I did reply to them again.... I think they just gave me this generic reply. I dont think they actually care. They just have some template replies and most likely some copy-paste text from some pdf they have...


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes. I told you. Unless you insist, I don't think the actual staff handles it. They front line keeps sending their templates as responses.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

Here is the only line in the entire guide that talks about months:

_"Only month and year will be counted for employment duration, not individual days"_

Now tell me where does it says that the last month will not be counted? There was no example given either...


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

Looked at my ACS result again and yes I too have the deduction of the final month of each employment, and Its their policy cause others have faced the issue ... I don't think anything can be done ....

*"Only month and year will be counted for employment duration, not individual days"
*
I think they balances it, because in our first month, we don't often join from the FIRST DAY, instead middle of month sometimes, however, they take it as ONE FULL MONTH ... Thus excluding works of last month... it gets as close as possible to the actual number of MONTHS we worked ...


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## perfect stranger (Jun 8, 2012)

Seems the counting rule was there in 2011 as well. I just looked at my letter and got to know that even my one last month was deducted. However even I joined in the middle of month, that is being counted, so I think that sort of compensate it.

However Iam not sure what is this 2 year deduction rule for ACS which has come into place now. Is this rule for all the applicants and what is its purpose ? To ensure more experienced people apply and get points ?


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

perfect stranger said:


> Seems the counting rule was there in 2011 as well. I just looked at my letter and got to know that even my one last month was deducted. However even I joined in the middle of month, that is being counted, so I think that sort of compensate it.
> 
> However Iam not sure what is this 2 year deduction rule for ACS which has come into place now. Is this rule for all the applicants and what is its purpose ? To ensure more experienced people apply and get points ?


Well, if I knew they will do it, I would have just waited 10 more days and got 1 month that has caused the trouble.. But like on Linkedin, workapiolis, and many other job sites, I thought it will be complete month counted. I never had any indication in my life that it could come to this...

Secondly, the 2 years rule came into effect recently, like an year back I think. I have seen a 2012 report with no deduction of 2 years... But I think its merit-less, I have seen a few assessment rules in other countries (like in CA), where they say if you ave 3 years degree = less points... or something like that... got the idea? here, they just chunk 2 years for all degrees... Its pointless..


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

If you could have waited 10 days before ACS to apply, why not wait 10 days now to apply for the visa ? Its going to be the same. Right ? You will hit 3 years.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> If you could have waited 10 days before ACS to apply, why not wait 10 days now to apply for the visa ? Its going to be the same. Right ? You will hit 3 years.


How will I do that without ACS report? I already have hit 3 years as ACS report was submitted in april and its june now...


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Rah1x said:


> How will I do that without ACS report? I already have hit 3 years as ACS report was submitted in april and its june now...


I think I'm missing something here. Can you explain what your problem is with the current ACS result ?

Is it that it doesn't show experience of complete 3 years in it ?


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> I think I'm missing something here. Can you explain what your problem is with the current ACS result ?
> 
> Is it that it doesn't show experience of complete 3 years in it ?


yes exactly... it shows 2 years 11 months...

I have reported a total experience to ACS = 5 years 2 months
ACS Deduction for Degree = 2 years less
ACS didnt count months = 3 months less
=> total shortage from 3 years = 1 month


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

Original Poster you are lucky that they DID NOT deduct 4 years off your degree cause for many applicants from your country and some other not so high ranked country, they did just that ...

Now if you are short by a single month, wait for another month before lodging EOI (Mention ONE MONTH PLUS in your EOI, the current month at time of lodgement), that extra one month WILL NOT HAVE TO BE in ACS Letter, Because your roles and responsibilities would be same as mentioned in the letter for your current job, once you apply for Visa, upload the latest payslips and Reference Letters for your current job.

Post-ACS experience can be claimed.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

Sunlight11 said:


> Original Poster you are lucky that they DID NOT deduct 4 years off your degree cause for many applicants from your country and some other not so high ranked country, they did just that ...
> 
> Now if you are short by a single month, wait for another month before lodging EOI (Mention ONE MONTH PLUS in your EOI, the current month at time of lodgement), that extra one month WILL NOT HAVE TO BE in ACS Letter, Because your roles and responsibilities would be same as mentioned in the letter for your current job, once you apply for Visa, upload the latest payslips and Reference Letters for your current job.
> 
> Post-ACS experience can be claimed.


Really? can that work? Can we claim post-ACS months in EOI and in Visa Application? That would be great...

and sorry to hear about your 4 years deduction.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes. That's what I have been trying to tell. Try searching for this & don't quote me here since I was not in a similar position as yours. But I guess a lot of people have filed their EOIs based on the fact that they have attained 3 years 'AT THE TIME OF EOI'. Imagine people who have their ACS done an year ago & didn't apply since then. But the CO will admit extra evidence as payslips, bank statements, to confirm your claimed 3 years of experience for the extra 5 points.

But again, post a new thread that will attract someone experienced in this scenario. That should help. Hope you got my point.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Rah1x said:


> Really? can that work? Can we claim post-ACS months in EOI and in Visa Application? That would be great...
> 
> and sorry to hear about your 4 years deduction.


Yes. See Sunlight11's response. That's exactly what I'm trying to tell. Your entire experience doesn't have to show up on ACS result letter.


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

Rah1x said:


> Really? can that work? Can we claim post-ACS months in EOI and in Visa Application? That would be great...
> 
> and sorry to hear about your 4 years deduction.


No I only got 2 years deduction as my BSc (Hons.) is conferred by university from United Kingdom - external degree. Further I didn't have to claim Work Points so whatever they deduct is alright with me.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

Sunlight11 said:


> Original Poster you are lucky that they DID NOT deduct 4 years off your degree cause for many applicants from your country and some other not so high ranked country, they did just that ...
> 
> Now if you are short by a single month, wait for another month before lodging EOI (Mention ONE MONTH PLUS in your EOI, the current month at time of lodgement), that extra one month WILL NOT HAVE TO BE in ACS Letter, Because your roles and responsibilities would be same as mentioned in the letter for your current job, once you apply for Visa, upload the latest payslips and Reference Letters for your current job.
> 
> Post-ACS experience can be claimed.


This idea is fantastic... but are you sure its gonna work? Also, when will I be able to know if post-ACS experience was counted or not? during EOI? or during after VISA fees payment?


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

The relevant question is: Is it a must requirement that our work experience be assessed by the assessing authority to claim points? In my opinion, NO.

In booklet 1119 on page 21 (http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1119.pdf), it is clearly stated that what is required from an applicant to claim points for overseas employment. I am copying the text of that booklet here:

_*Evidence to support your application*

1. Obtain evidence such as employment references and detailed duty statements covering the 
required period. Employment references must:

• be written on the official letterhead of the company or government department providing the reference;

• the letterhead should indicate clearly the full address of the company and any telephone, fax numbers, e-mail	and website addresses;
• the name and position of the person authorised to sign the employment reference should be	typed or stamped below that person’s signature;
• the contact telephone number of the person writing the reference should be included in the letter;
• the letter should indicate the exact period of employment (including whether permanent or temporary, full or part-time), position(s) held, main duties undertaken and the salary earned – positions should not be described by generic titles (eg. research officer, public servant) but according to the nature of the duties undertaken (eg. research chemist, accounts clerk); and
• a payslip from your current employment should also be included – this is especially important from applicants working in government departments.

2. For you to receive these points, documentary evidence should be included with your application.

3. Your relevant Assessing Authority may also be able to provide an opinion on your employment claims._

If you notice point number three, it reads: "Your relevant Assessing Authority *may* also be able to provide opinion on your employment claims." It doesn't say that your assessing authority *must* also be able ......

If DIAC blindly follows the assessment of assessing authorities, why they ask for the jon descriptions on a company letter head?

DIAC has a completely different way of assessing your work experience and considers any opinion coming from the assessing authority as merely an *advice*. In most cases, there opinion is not different than assessing authority but DIAC is not bound to act on the advice blindly. 

Please read this blog on immi.gov.au website, specially all the questions answered by the blogger:

Skills assessments—helping you fit into the Australian labour market | Migration Blog

*I hope that I will not be banned from this forum as moderators might think that I am providing competitors' links and violating rules of expatforum. Moderators, I have provided a link to the blog on DIAC's website and I hope that they have not become your competitors by merely using the website for blogging.*

When DIAC assesses work experience, it reviews many more documentary evidences than assessing authority. 

*Moral of the Story:*

You have a positive skills assessment, a qualification assessed at bachelor degree level, and work experience assessed by ACS. You are good to go to claim 3 years of employment. I would have suggested to claim more but for certain reasons, I am abstaining from it. It will be on DIAC to reassess your employment claims and calculate the number of years of experience.

If you are still not sure (even after reading a blog and question answers on DIAC's website), take an advice from qualified agents. They will be able to help you on this issue and they understand the rules of claiming work experience clearly. 

I hope the above helps.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

PS DIBP blogs and other .gov pages are just fine. The rules apply to competitive forums or personal blogs ie other businesses.


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## FAIS (May 8, 2014)

_shel said:


> PS DIBP blogs and other .gov pages are just fine. The rules apply to competitive forums or personal blogs ie other businesses.



That's my point. Rule is not clear on what is considered a competitive business. I would suggest revising rules so that people understand beforehand. It shouldn't be on moderators to explain the rules everytime. 

By the way, you owe me a reply.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Rah1x said:


> This idea is fantastic... but are you sure its gonna work? Also, when will I be able to know if post-ACS experience was counted or not? during EOI? or during after VISA fees payment?


You will only know it ONLY at Visa decision. Your EOI will get through since it is picked via an automated process. 

You can post a new thread and gather folks who have done this. I'm pretty sure a lot have done this & would be glad to support/guide you.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

FAIS said:


> That's my point. Rule is not clear on what is considered a competitive business. I would suggest revising rules so that people understand beforehand. It shouldn't be on moderators to explain the rules everytime.
> 
> By the way, you owe me a reply.


 A reply? 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html self explanatory if people read them. They are emailed when you first join the site. 

*
Do not use the forum as a place for advertising.*

You *may not make posts to promote *commercial, personal, or not-for-profit websites, products, or services.
*Don't therefore post unsolicited URL's* in threads unless a specific request for information has been requested by a poster.
*Self-promotional links to your blog, video channel, product, business, etc. are limited to your forum signature* if you are an Active Member. Active members (those with a 5+ post count) are allowed only one link (no extra wording, lines of text, slogans, no large text size etc.). *No one is allowed to post self promotional links in the main forum areas.*
This is* not a tool for advertising someone else’s site*, and any links found to be doing so will be removed immediately.
*Links that advertise other competing forums will be removed immediately.*
Premium members are allowed to post unsolicited adverts in the marketplace section only. Premium members are also allowed enhanced signatures which maybe upto four lines of text and include a promotional banner with multiple links.
Increasing your post count in order to advertise or self promote, post links, promote your signature, etc. is not allowed


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

Rah1x said:


> This idea is fantastic... but are you sure its gonna work? Also, when will I be able to know if post-ACS experience was counted or not? during EOI? or during after VISA fees payment?


EOI will calculate all your 3 years if you entered that way ... Don't overthink it, many have claimed this way and wasn't an issue and it certainly won't be in your case as its just a matter of mere month ... but do provide updated docs ...

Following Threads have Extensive Info on these issues ...


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...acs-new-rules-assessment-work-experience.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...s-living-australia/174930-acs-processing.html

But in any case, if you still feel unsure, you can engage a MARA agent.


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## Rah1x (May 18, 2014)

So guys, the Occupation ceiling has almost reached for my category, so shall I file EOI now? or shall I file it after 1st July? 

I am under the impression that for all these candidates with same points, my entry may pile down if not selected (like a 'stack'). Thats why I am thinking I should wait till its all fresh and hence have my entry at the top of the stack...

Is it that way? whats the selection algo they have?


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