# Spanish wines



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

> THE SPANISH VINEYARD REVOLUTION
> Forty years ago, Spanish wine was precisely nowhere on the global map. Now, it has almost legendary status among connoisseurs the world over. This is the story of how this change came about.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/10/inenglish/1515581021_587681.html?id_externo_rsoc=FB_CC

Any wine buffs out there? I never spend more than €5 on a bottle of Spanish wine and I think the price/quality ratio is pretty good, but I'm not a connoisseur of the top end of the market so have no idea whether this "almost legendary status" is real or not.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/10/inenglish/1515581021_587681.html?id_externo_rsoc=FB_CC
> 
> Any wine buffs out there? I never spend more than €5 on a bottle of Spanish wine and I think the price/quality ratio is pretty good, but I'm not a connoisseur of the top end of the market so have no idea whether this "almost legendary status" is real or not.


Me too. €5 the limit except for very special occasions.
My son drinks posh wine and once, at a loss for an idea for a birthday gift, I bought him a bottle of Spanish wine, Rioja I think it was, for €40. Intrigued as to what all this money bought I got myself a €20 bottle, first and last time in my life.
Maybe I lack whstever knowledge and palate is required to appreciate fine wine, but I'm ******ed if I can tell the difference between a €3 bottle or €20 bottle.
Seems to me it's a load of pretentious nonsense. 
We used to buy crates of wine from Laithwaites when we lived in the UK, delivered to the door. Nothing fancy, around the £5 mark tops. Each bottle came with tasting notes. We would sip our wine and ask 'Do you detect notes of citrus fruits with a hint of freshly cut grass?' as one note advised. Or, for one wine, pencil shavings.....

I will always prefer a glass of chilled draught cider or failing that, a pint of Badgers from Hall and Woodhouse, Blandford, Dorset.


----------



## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

The cavas in the supermarkets at 1.95€ are amazing for value and very drinkable. Lots of white 99c wines are nice too. I don’t drink red and cheap rosés can be a bit off but the white and cavas are great! That said I’m not a wine connoisseur whatsoever so I’m merely going off what I think it tastes like. I’ll be interested in further input though!


----------



## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I spent many years working with grapes in the Barossa Valley, I worked with some of Australia's oldest vines at times that produced wine I could in no way afford. That said over the years you do get the opportunity to taste some nice wines but yeah I don't really get it, only once did I taste a stand out bottle that was going for 90 AUD and that was really good.

I think the quality of cheap wine all round has improved no end over the years, I don't think Spanish wine is any better or worse than say French or Aussie wine although if you are not paying attention you can end up with some horrid stuff.

I find EU wine to be a bit light, not that it is a bad thing especially for whites but I am yet to find a nice deep, meaty, rich red. The closest was one from Chile.
Generally we buy Jacobs Creek because we can and if we get something Spanish it is mainly because of the bottle or labelling more than anything, there is one brand we keep returning too.

This time of year the beaujolais nouveau is out so we stock up on that until it leaves the shelves and to be honest most of the wine we drink is from a box. More of a beer fan really.


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/10/inenglish/1515581021_587681.html?id_externo_rsoc=FB_CC
> 
> Any wine buffs out there? I never spend more than €5 on a bottle of Spanish wine and I think the price/quality ratio is pretty good, but I'm not a connoisseur of the top end of the market so have no idea whether this "almost legendary status" is real or not.


During my ten years in Spain I have sampled wines from every region, in the early days being content with cheap plonk from the local bodega (€0.50 a litre, bring your your own container!) but now more interested in quality than price (within reason!). Carrefour tend to have many wine offers (three for the price of two, buy one get 70% off the second, etc) and I fill my trolley when these are available. I find that wines from
Ribera del Duero are consistently good and offer excellent value for money, especially my favourite, Tierra Vieja Joven, when it is on promotion, working out at about €4 a bottle. Many Spanish friends have told me that Rioja is the best region in Spain for marketing wine but Ribera del Duero is the best at making it and I can´t argue with that. By the way, it is interesting to note that French wine producers are the biggest customers of the Spanish wine industry - they buy Spanish wine in bulk and blend it with their own. And EU rules allow them to sell it as French wine!


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> During my ten years in Spain I have sampled wines from every region, in the early days being content with cheap plonk from the local bodega (€0.50 a litre, bring your your own container!) but now more interested in quality than price (within reason!). Carrefour tend to have many wine offers (three for the price of two, buy one get 70% off the second, etc) and I fill my trolley when these are available. I find that wines from
> Ribera del Duero are consistently good and offer excellent value for money, especially my favourite, Tierra Vieja Joven, when it is on promotion, working out at about €4 a bottle. Many Spanish friends have told me that Rioja is the best region in Spain for marketing wine but Ribera del Duero is the best at making it and I can´t argue with that. By the way, it is interesting to note that French wine producers are the biggest customers of the Spanish wine industry - they buy Spanish wine in bulk and blend it with their own. And EU rules allow them to sell it as French wine!


Agree about Ribera wines. The Rioja name has been used and abused. There are good ones but a lot of rubbish too. I like new world wines too. Australian and Chile, Argentina are good. Argentinean malbec are seriously good. New Zealand excellent for whites. Once went to a reception for a new wine launched in Estepona by the Mayor. A white, one of the vilest I have tasted but after a couple of glasses it tasted wonderful. I do like the white wines from Cadiz area especially barbadillo but overall not a big white drinker. Having a nice Australian Chiraz right now.


----------



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/10/inenglish/1515581021_587681.html?id_externo_rsoc=FB_CC
> 
> Any wine buffs out there? I never spend more than €5 on a bottle of Spanish wine and I think the price/quality ratio is pretty good, but I'm not a connoisseur of the top end of the market so have no idea whether this "almost legendary status" is real or not.


I love wine and when I take a shower I am in the buff. Does that count?? I remember many years ago the Sunday Times wind expert, Hugh Johnson, was asked what he thought the best wine was. In his opinion. His reply was, 'In my opinion, the best wine is the wine you like the best.' He never liked wine snobbery.


----------



## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

Ribera is generally a good bet.


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Another vote for Ribera. Also I find you really need to open Spanish wines half an hour before guzzling them. I know it's true of all wines, but it seems to make a huge diference with Spanish reds. Also I find paying around €8 in the supermarket gets you something quite special. Which I'm prepared to pay for, since I don't drink it very often.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I really like the flavour of Rioja and in my price range i prefer it to Ribera. My standard tipple over the cooler months is the Mercadona own brand Rioja, Comportillo Reserva at around €4.60. It is significantly nicer than the cheaper Crianza (€2.50) but not significantly less nice than the Gran Reserva (€8.00). In summer I make tinto de verano with the cheapest of the range, the Cosecha, which is less than €2. 

I love dry whites like Barbadillo (made locally) or Rueda Verdejo. Some of the cheaper cavas taste not quite right to me so I tend to stick to Freixenet. I live near the Sherry Triangle and enjoy the whole range from dry white Manzanilla to honey-sweet Pedro Ximénez, depending on the occasion. Good for cooking too!

I read once that Spain charges less duty on domestic wines than imported ones, which might explain why it's hard to find e.g. South American wines. Anyone know more?


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Mercadona, 3 Euros. I bet if I blindfold test some friends they'd pick them ahead of some much more expensive ones.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The best Spanish wine we ever bought was a 1974 Jumilla. We bought it in 1990 at the "duty free" at Barajas airport between the flight arriving from Colombia and the one leaving for Gatwick. We opened it some 11 years later and found it to be sweet enough for a dessert wine which is how we used it. Heavenly!


----------



## Poloss (Feb 2, 2017)

Alcalaina said:


> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/10/inenglish/1515581021_587681.html?id_externo_rsoc=FB_CC
> 
> Any wine buffs out there? I never spend more than €5 on a bottle of Spanish wine and I think the price/quality ratio is pretty good, but I'm not a connoisseur of the top end of the market so have no idea whether this "almost legendary status" is real or not.


Thanks, your post prompted me to read the whole article; I'd just glanced at the photos...
I've worked with many organic wine producers in southern France;
the quality of their wine ranges from excellent to hardly good enough for sangria...
There's a tendency over the last 5 to 10 years for many here to produce "vin naturel" (without added sulphites, oak chips or any other extras to help activate fermentation or to speed up the decanting process).

I'll be looking forward to meeting up with similar-minded Spanish wine producers.
This is my plan:
Les vignerons naturels sur une carteEspagneLes vignerons naturels sur une carteEspagne - Vinsnaturels.fr


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Poloss said:


> Thanks, your post prompted me to read the whole article; I'd just glanced at the photos...
> I've worked with many organic wine producers in southern France;
> the quality of their wine ranges from excellent to hardly good enough for sangria...
> There's a tendency over the last 5 to 10 years for many here to produce "vin naturel" (without added sulphites, oak chips or any other extras to help activate fermentation or to speed up the decanting process).
> ...


Get in touch with Ramon Saavedra Saavedra of the Cauzon bodega, he's your man to start with Will send you PM with his e-mail.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Chopera said:


> Another vote for Ribera. VAlso I find you really need to open Spanish wines half an hour before guzzling them. I know it's true of all wines, but it seems to make a huge diference with Spanish reds. Also I find paying around €8 in the supermarket gets you something quite special. Which I'm prepared to pay for, since I don't drink it very often.


Well, that’s never going to work. I like what I like, I buy cheap white and red in Mercadona €1.75 a bottle. I like St Emillion reds, but that was back in my heady days of a regular pay check:biggrin1:, but never seen them on sale here, I used to drink reds but, since I moved here I find I prefer whites, and as I’m integrated into the community I put Mercadona coke with everything

Basically I’m a wine heathen


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> Well, that’s never going to work. I like what I like, I buy cheap white and red in Mercadona €1.75 a bottle. I like St Emillion reds, but that was back in my heady days of a regular pay check:biggrin1:, but never seen them on sale here, I used to drink reds but, since I moved here I find I prefer whites, and as I’m integrated into the community I put Mercadona coke with everything
> 
> Basically I’m a wine heathen


I remember back in the UK I used to be able to pick up fantastic German white wines for next to nothing, simply because they were out of fashion. I hardly ever buy wine for home consumption (my wife doesn't drink and I have a habit of not letting a drop going to waste, so I stick to the beer). I might buy a couple of bottles a year, so when I do I'm happy to "splash out" an extra 5 euros (the price of a pint in central Madrid).

What I find interesting is the Spanish keep opened red wine in the fridge, and tend to serve it cold as well. I never heard of anyone doing this in the UK.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Chopera said:


> What I find interesting is the Spanish keep opened red wine in the fridge, and tend to serve it cold as well. I never heard of anyone doing this in the UK.


The recommended temperature for storing and serving red wine is 14-18ºC. So when "room temperature" is often approaching 30ºC, most bars will keep it in the cooler. It soon warms up in the glass once it's served.

https://www.vintecclub.com/best-temp/


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> The recommended temperature for storing and serving red wine is 14-18ºC. So when "room temperature" is often approaching 30ºC, most bars will keep it in the cooler. It soon warms up in the glass once it's served.
> 
> https://www.vintecclub.com/best-temp/


Given UK room temperatures are usually above 18ºC these days, even in winter, it sounds like people in the UK are serving red wine too warm then.


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Chopera said:


> Given UK room temperatures are usually above 18ºC these days, even in winter, it sounds like people in the UK are serving red wine too warm then.


But, of course, respectable British people keep their wine in the cellar and the butler doesn´t pull the cork until half-hour before dinner is served.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Horlics said:


> Mercadona, 3 Euros. I bet if I blindfold test some friends they'd pick them ahead of some much more expensive ones.


That's true because people's palates are accustomed to the ones they usually drink. Many do not like expensive vintage wines. 

OH likes cheap red wine straight from the fridge on hot days. A chiringuito we use a lot always serves their cheap wine ice cold and he acquired the taste. He is a philistine. 

Not many opportunities to try other countries wines in Spain unless in El Corte Ingles. Alcampo sells a few French ones but tend to be more overpriced than UK.


----------



## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

Supersol & Carrefour have more international wines. There´s a nice French blush that I buy from Supersol, and they sell Australian wine such as Yellow Tail.


----------



## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

Chopera said:


> I remember back in the UK I used to be able to pick up fantastic German white wines for next to nothing, simply because they were out of fashion. I hardly ever buy wine for home consumption (my wife doesn't drink and I have a habit of not letting a drop going to waste, so I stick to the beer). I might buy a couple of bottles a year, so when I do I'm happy to "splash out" an extra 5 euros (the price of a pint in central Madrid).
> 
> What I find interesting is the Spanish keep opened red wine in the fridge, and tend to serve it cold as well. I never heard of anyone doing this in the UK.


Simply because of the heat in Spain.


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

danboy20 said:


> Simply because of the heat in Spain.


They keep red wine in the fridge even when the room temperature is not particularly hot.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If you don't want chilled red wine in a bar, just ask for_ Rioja natural_.


----------



## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

Chopera said:


> They keep red wine in the fridge even when the room temperature is not particularly hot.


But the custom obviously began because of the higher temperatures in Spain.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> They keep red wine in the fridge even when the room temperature is not particularly hot.


I'd have to disagree. "They" do not keep red wine in the fridge - some Spaniards may. No one in my Spanish family would dream of doing that . Many bars keep wine in a wine cooler that keeps wine at the so said correct temperature, and of course many don't. In other bars they'll keep it in the fridge, but would normally ask you if you wanted it cold or not. In the summer, it makes sense to keep a "normal" wine in the fridge, - hot wine, and it is hot in summer temperatures, doesn't usually go down well and it will go off.



Alcalaina said:


> If you don't want chilled red wine in a bar, just ask for_ Rioja natural_.


Here you'd ask for "del tiempo"

For me any wine that I like is good! A lot of Riojas, Priorat, Ribera...

https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/11/09/eps/1447089395_947300.html

For white I like Monopole best
https://www.cvne.com/ct-vino/monopole/

But you also have the option of crianza, reserva etc. There's some info here in Spanish and English
Consejo Regulador de la Denominación de Origen Rioja


I have noticed that nowadays in a lot of places if you ask for "un tinto" they often misunderstand and think you want a "tinto de verano". Now you have to say un Rioja, un Ribera
PS Rioja is not pronounced Rioka


----------



## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> PS Rioja is not pronounced Rioka


But it is!

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/rioja




https://forvo.com/word/rioja/


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> But it is!
> 
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/rioja
> How to Pronounce Rioja - YouTube
> https://forvo.com/word/rioja/


Hahahaha
And just where is the "k" in that beautiful pronunciation of Rioja by a _Spaniard_ in the youtube video?
The British guy in the Cambridge dictionary is pronouncing the Spanish word in a British way and it's incorrect


----------



## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Exactly where it should be! As it is in two further Spanish pronounciations. 
https://www.howtopronounce.com/spanish/rioja/


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> Exactly where it should be! As it is in two further Spanish pronounciations.
> https://www.howtopronounce.com/spanish/rioja/


I think you are hearing what you want to hear!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> Exactly where it should be! As it is in two further Spanish pronounciations.
> https://www.howtopronounce.com/spanish/rioja/


¿¿??
I don't detect a "k" there. The pronuncition of the word Rioja here is correct. The person who first pronounces the word sounds South American and generally the Spanish spoken in the Latin American countries doesn't use the hard "j" and "g" s that are heard here. When I came here from Colombia I had to learn how to do that sound especially as it's contained in Mr. Pesky Wesky's name!
The second person, a woman, sounds Spanish and there is no "k" in her pronunciation of Rioja either, and quite rightly too.
Just to be clear the (minor) point about the pronunciation of the word Rioja in my original post was referring to the often heard RioKa as can be heard in this audio, taken from a link you posted earlier on. 
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/rioja
This is a British way of saying the Spanish word. It's not correct and as it's just as easy to say Rioja as RioKa I wonder why people do it

Can you hear a difference between the two?


----------



## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

The Skipper said:


> I think you are hearing what you want to hear!


Yes, you're probably right


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> ¿¿??
> I don't detect a "k" there. The pronuncition of the word Rioja here is correct. The person who first pronounces the word sounds South American and generally the Spanish spoken in the Latin American countries doesn't use the hard "j" and "g" s that are heard here. When I came here from Colombia I had to learn how to do that sound especially as it's contained in Mr. Pesky Wesky's name!
> The second person, a woman, sounds Spanish and there is no "k" in her pronunciation of Rioja either, and quite rightly too.
> Just to be clear the (minor) point about the pronunciation of the word Rioja in my original post was referring to the often heard RioKa as can be heard in this audio, taken from a link you posted earlier on.
> ...


When SWMBO first went to UK, I told people to pronounce her name (Alejandra) as if it had an aspirate 'h' in the middle or for those who knew any Welsh/Scottish to use the soft 'ch.'


----------

