# Car Insurance Steps



## Giacomina

We just bought a used Citroen and I dont understand the Italian step system for Auto Insurance other than you start out paying a huge amount and it goes down each year from then. 
I am looking to hear how much you paid the first year and how much it went down per year after that.
Did you shop around for the best rates or just pay the first agency you found?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## NickZ

You always shop around .

The bonus malus system starts at class 14 I think. Every year assuming no claims you go up a class. If you have a claim you go the other way.

I'm paying half what I paid in Canada. That's with Assicurazione online, Genialloyd 

I actually think I'm paying slightly higher then when I started but that's because the laws have changed. My current RCA is €6million .


----------



## Giacomina

*Ty*



NickZ said:


> You always shop around .
> 
> The bonus malus system starts at class 14 I think. Every year assuming no claims you go up a class. If you have a claim you go the other way.
> 
> I'm paying half what I paid in Canada. That's with Assicurazione online, Genialloyd
> 
> I actually think I'm paying slightly higher then when I started but that's because the laws have changed. My current RCA is €6million .


Well, I paid a lot less in Canada I think. The Citroen saxo 1.1 year 1997 only cost 750 euro to purchase, it runs really well and the first agency we went for insurance said we must pay 900 euro insurance for the first 6 months then another 900 for the next 6 months but that then it would go down incrementally each year. We sort of gasped and left. I hope you can let me know around how much you are paying and what kind of car you have, it would help us to sort out if we are being stupid and easily duped into paying tht much or that is how the insurance really is here.

I only paid $350 on my jeep in canada, per year! And it went down every year there, but not very much.

I dont see how the young people can afford to drive cars in Italy, its very expensive.


----------



## NickZ

The rates are based on

The value of the car
The risk the car represents . Size of engine. Type of engine
The area you're in. Some regions have higher tax. Some have higher rates of accidents.

I'm paying this year €575 I think. 2008 C3. It's diesel so the rates are a little lower.

In Toronto I paid $800 every six months for my Cherokee. Considering in Canada I was top claims class. Had only $1million in insurance. Here I'm currently class 11 with €6million in insurance.

IIRC young people can be put on the parents malus class. They still pay a lot but it's lower then being on their own.


----------



## Larry and Arlene

*Car Info*

The value of the car
The risk the car represents . Size of engine. Type of engine
The area you're in. Some regions have higher tax. Some have higher rates of accidents.

I'm paying this year €575 I think. 2008 C3. It's diesel so the rates are a little lower.

In Toronto I paid $800 every six months for my Cherokee. Considering in Canada I was top claims class. Had only $1million in insurance. Here I'm currently class 11 with €6million in insurance.

IIRC young people can be put on the parents malus class. They still pay a lot but it's lower then being on their own.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Nick Z. Your posts are always very helpful

Our plan is to relocate to Abruzzo next year from southern California. We have started researching the used car question. Our current car of interest is a used Citroen C3 Picasso, 1.6 diesel. We note you have experience with a C3. Would you mind telling us if you have found this car a good choice in terms of reliability, costs of operation and handling? Thanks in advance.


----------



## NickZ

Picasso is the minivan. Isn't it?

IMHO used cars are expensive in Italy. Various reasons for this but I'd suggest comparing the full cost of a new versus used. 

Mine is the 1.3 diesel. Outside of a bad headlight connector it's been very reliable. Mileage is in line with the company estimates but I do mostly highway driving. That's offset by the fact that I drive up hill it seems half the time. Oil changes are every 20Km. 

Handling? French cars are often considered soft by European standards. Not to the extent of North American cars but I wouldn't consider the C3 a sports car.


----------



## Larry and Arlene

Thanks again Nick-

Yes, the Picasso is the mini-van. As my Austin-Healy and MG days are now in the distant past, the sports car handling is further down the list of requirements.

Another used car buying question if I may. Does the advertised price on used cars normally already include the applicable VAT? We understand the registration and transaction fees are further on top but as the VAT is normally a big chunk, we are trying to develop an overall budget for planning purposes. Thanks again.


----------



## NickZ

IVA/VAT I think should already be included. It was paid when the car was new.

The transfer cost

andreaagostini.it » Blog Archive » Calcolo costo del passaggio di proprietà

Plug in the KW (HP *.747 I think is the right formula or at least close enough) and the provnice.


----------



## Giacomina

*when to buy insurance?*

Nick,

Thank you for the link to Genialoyd. We got a quote from them that is $1200 less than at the agency but when we went on to try to purchase the insurance, the only block was that the car is already insured so we have to wait until the past owner stops that insurance.

I just dont know how we could know when that would be. The insurance copy says the insurance presently on the car lasts until December. 

I feel anxious because another Anglo ex pat site said there is a heavy fine if you are stopped by police and dont have insurance.

How will we know when to buy the insurance?


----------



## NickZ

The previous owner should have told the company he had sold the car. If he has a new one then he'd move over the insurance . If not I think he might get a bit of money back. 

Yes there is a fine for driving without insurance. 

Have you tried calling the phone number for Genialloyd and seeing what they say? I bet they have a process for this.


----------



## sim0670

Larry and Arlene said:


> Thanks again Nick-
> 
> Yes, the Picasso is the mini-van. As my Austin-Healy and MG days are now in the distant past, the sports car handling is further down the list of requirements.
> 
> Another used car buying question if I may. Does the advertised price on used cars normally already include the applicable VAT? We understand the registration and transaction fees are further on top but as the VAT is normally a big chunk, we are trying to develop an overall budget for planning purposes. Thanks again.


Hiya,

Just a thought, have you tried Clements in US. They do an expat insurance which covers you to drive in Italy. We have a policy and they also allow you to make payments every 30 days which is handy with no extra costs incurred. They also provide a call back service from the US for the initial quote.
We saved hundreds off our original italian insurance quotation. They also do health insurance too i think. Give them a try. All the details can be found online.

Regards
Simon


----------



## Giacomina

*thanks sim*

thank you,

We are still shopping around for a good deal.

The transfer of the title cost us 350 Euro.

Seeing as how we bought the car for only 750 euro we didnt imagine insurance could possibly come to nearly 2000 euro.:confused2:

Strange countries indeed!


----------



## italy

i concur with the clements suggestion as offering very good value and very close to standard insurance.. outside Italy.. you can even get fully comprehensive which you might well be allowed to transfer your no claims bonus via your old insurance company.. Italian insurance is a mess based on the car and not the driver.. if the car is insured it can be drivan limit your costs by limiting the free use of any other driver.. ie no young people and just you and your partner as listed drivers... bonus malus is supposed to allow you to drop your price each year but in general you find that they rarely make any price reduction available because each year they mention new rules and new costs so it never seems to make a lot of difference... you will also find that you are only offered in general third party fire and theft ... and this means you are only insured for the damage you cause to others.. not your own damage..ie your car and yourself.. this you have to pay for if you are at fault or claim off the other person if it was their fault.. running off the road if its icy means you get nothing unless you have to pay for damaging someone else fence for example..one very strange fact is that if you are the owner insured person and are driving you have to request to pay a higher price if you want to insure your own self.. ie you will not be insured for personal injury from your own insurance..however passengers will be as they are third party victims.. a final word of caution its essential when driving here that you have the insurance, you have the hi glo vests ,the set of bulbs to replace any that fail... your seat belts on, your animal secured by a seat belt or if more than one a partitioned carrying area that keeps you separated from them.. chains for winter driving and or winter specific tires... carry all papers for you and the car at all times.. including the vehicle testing documents to prove it has been checked over every two years it its older than 3 years.. if it has a trailer hookup this has to be registered and if towing its a requirement to insure the trailer and have that registered too much the same as the car with its own number plates.. am not saying you will be checked for all the above every time you are stopped but the rules here are very complicated and the hardest thing is to get to know what you can and cannot get away with.. ie no drinking.. drugs if thats a problem.. which are obvious.. not driving in cities if you have the wrong registration number for that day or if your vehicle is not classed in the latest euro category for being ultra clean.. like a gpl or hybrid car.. as some cities refuse entry to polluting vehicles at certain periods of the year.. and obviously getting your driving licensed changed.. welcome to the less than pleasurable driving in Italy experience unless you have a huge wallet... by the way diesel fuel is much cheaper than petrol .. although to offset the higher price of the engine you need to have a quite high mileage to do.. best and cheapest option is a petrol/gpl combination.. you have to keep a minimum amount of petrol in the tank but gpl or mains gas are by far the cheapest and cleanest fuels available.. very widely in the case of gpl.. and if you can buy a model where the gas tank is fitted from the factory it uses up much less space than retro fitted gas conversions..


----------



## radyjame

*Allied Insurance Group*



Giacomina said:


> We just bought a used Citroen and I dont understand the Italian step system for Auto Insurance other than you start out paying a huge amount and it goes down each year from then.
> I am looking to hear how much you paid the first year and how much it went down per year after that.
> Did you shop around for the best rates or just pay the first agency you found?
> 
> Thanks in advance![/QUO
> 
> 
> My friend i think you should take help to Allied insurance group because they provide better insurance policy services for car insurance in customer satisfactory amount.


----------



## drbrucehoag

*Italian Car Insurance*

Welcome to Italy! In many respects a fourth-world nation that's still declining!

If you've ever wondered why the Italians do so well in Formula 1 racing, let me tell you that it's because they practice every day. All of them!

I've lived here seven years and in that time I've learned that if you want to keep your car looking like new, that you should either leave it in the UK or put it in a garage here and never take it out.

But if you choose to drive, then you will "personalize" either as result of your own driving or the attempts made by the Italians to overtake, stop, or squeeze into the minutest of space between you and anything, or anyone, else.

And the result of all that is high insurance rates. Like anywhere else, the more claims, the higher the premiums. And premiums have become so high that few people claim on their insurance. They either ignore the bumps, scratches, breakages, etc, or they pay for them out of their own pockets.

Now I don't say this proudly by any means; but I once backed into a Boxster. It was in a private car park, for residents only. The car didn't belong to anyone who lived there, but was, and is, routinely parked there because the father of the owner lived there. Fortunately for me, I backed into the edge of the front wheel well. I cracked the plastic over one of the winkers. That damage cost me more than 100 euros, but I was happy to pay it rather than to get my insurance company involved.

So, yes. The premiums are high. But one journey around town or on the autostrada will convince you that they are comparatively cheap given the way the majority of them drive.

Cheers, Bruce


----------



## Giacomina

drbrucehoag said:


> Welcome to Italy! In many respects a fourth-world nation that's still declining!
> 
> If you've ever wondered why the Italians do so well in Formula 1 racing, let me tell you that it's because they practice every day. All of them!
> 
> I've lived here seven years and in that time I've learned that if you want to keep your car looking like new, that you should either leave it in the UK or put it in a garage here and never take it out.
> 
> But if you choose to drive, then you will "personalize" either as result of your own driving or the attempts made by the Italians to overtake, stop, or squeeze into the minutest of space between you and anything, or anyone, else.
> 
> And the result of all that is high insurance rates. Like anywhere else, the more claims, the higher the premiums. And premiums have become so high that few people claim on their insurance. They either ignore the bumps, scratches, breakages, etc, or they pay for them out of their own pockets.
> 
> Now I don't say this proudly by any means; but I once backed into a Boxster. It was in a private car park, for residents only. The car didn't belong to anyone who lived there, but was, and is, routinely parked there because the father of the owner lived there. Fortunately for me, I backed into the edge of the front wheel well. I cracked the plastic over one of the winkers. That damage cost me more than 100 euros, but I was happy to pay it rather than to get my insurance company involved.
> 
> So, yes. The premiums are high. But one journey around town or on the autostrada will convince you that they are comparatively cheap given the way the majority of them drive.
> 
> Cheers, Bruce


Thanks for the levity, we can have a little more of it after reading your post!


----------



## drbrucehoag

*Car Insurance - Italy*



radyjame said:


> Giacomina said:
> 
> 
> 
> We just bought a used Citroen and I dont understand the Italian step system for Auto Insurance other than you start out paying a huge amount and it goes down each year from then.
> I am looking to hear how much you paid the first year and how much it went down per year after that.
> Did you shop around for the best rates or just pay the first agency you found?
> 
> Thanks in advance![/QUO
> 
> 
> My friend i think you should take help to Allied insurance group because they provide better insurance policy services for car insurance in customer satisfactory amount.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use USAA. My former US military service makes me eligible. It's the cheapest I've been able to find.
Click to expand...


----------



## PauloPievese

NickZ said:


> My current RCA is €6million .


What is an "RCA"?


----------



## PauloPievese

Larry and Arlene said:


> Does the advertised price on used cars normally already include the applicable VAT?


I've been using autoscout24 to research. I have yet to note a dealer ad this didn't say "Prezzo finale" with a footnote that says "Prezzo finale offerto al pubblico, comprensivo di IVA, non vincolato all’acquisto di un finanziamento, a permuta o rottamazione. Passaggio di proprietà e IPT esclusi." or "1 Final price offered to the public, inclusive of VAT, not linked to the purchase of a loan, to exchange or scrapping. Transfer of ownership and IPT excluded." I don't see this note on ads from private parties. What the implication of this is I have no idea. When I was in Georgia private party sales paid no sales tax; not so in Florida.


----------



## NickZ

PauloPievese said:


> What is an "RCA"?


Basically it's the insurance that pays out if you're at fault. It covers damages you do to others. It doesn't cover your car but the other person you hit.

The other person hopefully has insurance in case they hit you.


----------



## NickZ

PauloPievese said:


> I've been using autoscout24 to research. I have yet to note a dealer ad this didn't say "Prezzo finale" with a footnote that says "Prezzo finale offerto al pubblico, comprensivo di IVA, non vincolato all’acquisto di un finanziamento, a permuta o rottamazione. Passaggio di proprietà e IPT esclusi." or "1 Final price offered to the public, inclusive of VAT, not linked to the purchase of a loan, to exchange or scrapping. Transfer of ownership and IPT excluded." I don't see this note on ads from private parties. What the implication of this is I have no idea. When I was in Georgia private party sales paid no sales tax; not so in Florida.


I don't remember VAT for used cars but you need to look out for the registration costs. 

Servizi ACI - Modulistica PRA

Might want to look around here


----------



## PauloPievese

NickZ said:


> Servizi ACI - Modulistica PRA


I gather that this is supposed to make some sort of sense. It's very clear that it wants me to distinguish between NP2C and NP2D models whatever that means. I gather from context that this is supposed to end up giving me registration costs. I'm months away from even being able to purchase a car so I'll worry about what's in front of me now. Having said that, what are the range of costs for registering and what are the variables?

I note that this link is to the Italian Automobile Club; I was going to ask about that. I've got AAA in the US and the most valuable aspect of that is roadside assistance; same here?

Somebody is missing a glorious business opportunity guiding green expats through all the doo-dah.

:flypig:


----------



## NickZ

The ACI offices handle quite a bit of things. Even if you aren't a member.

They tend to be in driving school offices so handle that. Handle license renewals. They can deal with your bollo payment. I pay mine online but in some regions I don't think that's possible.

If you see an office near you (Look for a driving school) walk in and ask about the costs. From what I understand the cost will depend on the HP and the province. I think those are the big variables.


----------



## PauloPievese

NickZ said:


> The ACI offices ... can deal with your bollo payment.


Of course! The bollo payment! That's the thing where you stand in the dirt tossing wooden balls, right? No, I gather from context that it is the registration fee. No need to reply if that's what it is.
:flypig:


----------



## NickZ

annual license plate fee . Not sure what that would be in the USA.


----------

