# Spain is not a third world country



## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

Isn't it? You could have fooled me!


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Morrons


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Not one of our many Spanish friends and acquaintances condone this kind of thing.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Campesina said:


> Isn't it? You could have fooled me!
> 
> A bit of local fun in Medinaceli


Rather looks like the way some yobbos in some parts of England treat minorities (colour, race, disabilities, gender preferences) in fact, I've been treated like that because I was shy, of a gentle nature and didn't comply with the bully culture.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

That would be illegal here in the Canary Islands


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Rather looks like the way some yobbos in some parts of England treat minorities (colour, race, disabilities, gender preferences) in fact, I've been treated like that because I was shy, of a gentle nature and didn't comply with the bully culture.


Oh, come on!! You have been tied to a post, tortured and beaten? Had burning stuff tied to your head? 

You do your argument no favours by using such hyperbole.

Yes - dog fighting and badger baiting are rife in the UK and it is shameful. The difference is that those things in the UK take place in secret and are generally despised and illegal whereas that video appears to show that cruelty taking place in public - quite openly.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Oh, come on!! You have been tied to a post, tortured and beaten? Had burning stuff tied to your head?
> 
> You do your argument no favours by using such hyperbole.
> 
> Yes - dog fighting and badger baiting are rife in the UK and it is shameful. The difference is that those things in the UK take place in secret and are generally despised and illegal whereas that video appears to show that cruelty taking place in public - quite openly.


Isnt animal torture illegal in Spain too? I cannot bring myself to watch campesinas video, but those practices wich involve amimal turture and suffering... I believe them to be illegal.

I'm not saying that animal torture doesnt happen. It does, unfortunately, but surely not in the open. Personally, I have never witnessed anything like that, but then again, I havent explored much of the Andalucian campo.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> Isnt animal torture illegal in Spain too? I cannot bring myself to watch campesinas video, but those practices wich involve amimal turture and suffering... I believe them to be illegal.
> 
> I'm not saying that animal torture doesnt happen. It does, unfortunately, but surely not in the open. Personally, I have never witnessed anything like that, but then again, I havent explored much of the Andalucian campo.


I would certainly hope that it is illegal. 

It appears to be taking place with many people in a large bullring - i.e. in public. I don't want to say that everyone in Spain or even most people endorse this but if a video like this was made in the UK ... well it just wouldn't .


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Just made a quick search and no, it isnt illegal. i didnt know about this particular fiesta, which aparently takes place every year in a small town in Soria. Scary some peoples idea of "fun". 

Thing is, if the bull is not hurt nor does he suffer from burns during this grotesque show, then it will not be considered torture as such, I guess. 

Toro Jubilo fiesta returns to Medinaceli, Soria


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> Just made a quick search and no, it isnt illegal. i didnt know about this particular fiesta, which aparently takes place every year in a small town in Soria. Scary some peoples idea of "fun".
> 
> Thing is, if the bull is not hurt nor does he suffer from burns during this grotesque show, then it will not be considered torture as such, I guess.
> 
> Toro Jubilo fiesta returns to Medinaceli, Soria


 definitely not illegal - it happens at least once a year in my town - for sure _Toros Embolados _is part of the San Juan fiesta

I've never been to that particular part of the celebrations & never intend to


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> definitely not illegal - it happens at least once a year in my town - for sure _Toros Embolados _is part of the San Juan fiesta
> 
> I've never been to that particular part of the celebrations & never intend to




Bulls with 'balls' on their horns happens here in Ontinyent and isn't bad at all (bou en corda).

Our 'running with the bulls' is with the leather balls and the bull is on a rope - so not too bad (for both runners and the bull).

However, it was our turn earlier this year to host the main national bull run. Our bulls had protection on their horns but the ones from other towns did not. Unfortunately, one of these 'foreign' bulls caught a local and killed him (instantaneously).


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> Rather looks like the way some yobbos in some parts of England treat minorities (colour, race, disabilities, gender preferences) in fact, I've been treated like that because I was shy, of a gentle nature and didn't comply with the bully culture.


Not seen people set on fire like that in the UK, any links to this?

What happened in the video is awful, I'll ignore some things like Bull fighting, its a culture issue, but there is no culture in what that mob were doing.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Just a few points: 

the term 'Third World' is no longer in use. The 'Second World' i.e. the former socialist bloc states no longer exists. The correct term would be 'Developing Country' or 'Newly Developing Country' and those terms clearly do not apply to Spain.

Yes, there are many cruel practices involving animals in Spain. They are barbaric, in many cases and are rightly to be condemned. 
But we should perhaps consider further.


There are many cases of animal cruelty in other countries which have enjoyed a more enlightened form of government in the twentieth century than Spain which endured fifty years of dictatorship. Such regimes do not tend to foster positive attitudes to any form of life, whether human or other animal.

One of Europe's most cultured and enlightened nations was ruled for over a decade by a ruthless dictator who instigated a programme of mass killing of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally and physically 'abnormal' people, many of them children.
In the UK dog and cockfighting is on the increase. 

Anyone who had the time or inclination to do so could provide many examples of cruel treatment of animals in most countries in the world. So the answer is no, Spain is not an underdeveloped country any more than is the UK, Germany, Latvia, the U.S. and so on and on...

Our local Ayto. is about to sign an agreement with the animal charity I work for. They will fund our work of caring for abandoned dogs and cats and our work of educating the public in the treatment of animals.

At a time when the previous administration left them with debts of 300 000 000 euros I would describe this as fairly enlightened, no?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Our local Ayto. is about to sign an agreement with the animal charity I work for. They will fund our work of caring for abandoned dogs and cats and our work of educating the public in the treatment of animals.
> 
> At a time when the previous administration left them with debts of 300 000 000 euros I would describe this as fairly enlightened, no?


That is very good news!!:clap2:

Does that mean you don't need volunteers any more? We were going to come and do some caca shovelling tomorrow weather permitting...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> That is very good news!!:clap2:
> 
> Does that mean you don't need volunteers any more? We were going to come and do some caca shovelling tomorrow weather permitting...


No way!! We will ALWAYS be a volunteer -led charity so caca shovellers are always welcome. It will be nice to see you anyway.

It's good news that the Ayto have agreed to agree but there will be very tough bargaining ahead. They are currently formulating their draft proposals, we are considering ours.....

I shall be doing the negotiating with a great team to advise and generally give guidance.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Third world or developing country? 

Does it have Buene Fe when it comes to buying a house or can people legally sell and buy illegal houses? Do lawyers actually do a proper job with comeback? In fact is it possible to obtain justice in your lifetime? Do politicians act corruptly ? Does it take over a year for nothing to happen with your complaint via "Spanish Oftel" about the phone company ripping you off? Do officials once appointed have jobs for life? Can you film police on duty at say a Public Strike?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

olivefarmer said:


> Third world or developing country?
> 
> Does it have Buene Fe when it comes to buying a house or can people legally sell and buy illegal houses? Do lawyers actually do a proper job with comeback? In fact is it possible to obtain justice in your lifetime? Do politicians act corruptly ? Does it take over a year for nothing to happen with your complaint via "Spanish Oftel" about the phone company ripping you off? Do officials once appointed have jobs for life? Can you film police on duty at say a Public Strike?




Sorry but I'm not sure what point you are making....

Let's be clear...the term 'Third World' is no longer used so you are asking whether Spain is a developing country.
Compared to Ethiopia, Mali and other developing countries...no it isn't.

So let's look at your list:

the first two relating to property buying aren't common in the UK, agreed

there are many documented cases of lawyers not doing a proper job without comeback...one I experienced myself when an appeal to the Law Society was turned down on a 'technicality'

I spent so much time complaining about a technician from Centrica who left an electrical installation at my property in a lethally dangerous state, involving the Health and Safety Executive as well and getting nowhere by the time I left the UK that I gave up

obtaining justice in your lifetime...ask the family of Christopher Craig wrongly hanged for a murder he did not commit, or the family of Timothy Evans, hung for crimes he did not commit

do politicians act corruptly....how many MPs are now imprisoned or have been for corruption? Margaret Moran, the latest culprit, was judged 'unfit to plea'....

jobs for life....most senior civil servants have jobs for life, many like the former Director of the BBC get payoffs of almost half a million £ after being in post for a few weeks..

try filming police at a strike....I suggest you try it in the UK. Many times when I've been on demos police hide their ID numbers, take cameras and rip out film

So we can conclude then that the UK is a developing country? Or France and Italy, where most of your list is commonplace...

As for the Czech Republic and other post-socialist states I've lived in...by your criteria they are basket cases..terminal...beyond hope of redemption


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Sorry but I'm not sure what point you are making....
> 
> Let's be clear...the term 'Third World' is no longer used so you are asking whether Spain is a developing country.
> Compared to Ethiopia, Mali and other developing countries...no it isn't.
> ...


it's not just Spain then 


& I saw on-duty police on the TV this morning - supervising/controlling picket lines

in Spain, obviously - since there is no strike in the UK today


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

"Spain is not a third world country".

Ohhhhhh yes it is!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

el romeral said:


> "Spain is not a third world country".
> 
> Ohhhhhh yes it is!


There is no such thing as a 'third world country'. Mods..is there a 'smilie' for exasperation?
I thought I'd pointed that out.


As for 'Ohhhh yes it is'....that's an assertion you need to back up with evidence to have it taken seriously.

I could post that I'm twenty-one, blonde, curvaceous, huge bust and legs to make Marlene Dietrich jealous...
But I'd be asked to prove that assertion.
And I couldn't.

Evidence please..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> There is no such thing as a 'third world country'. Mods..is there a 'smilie' for exasperation?
> I thought I'd pointed that out.
> 
> 
> ...


:frusty:

will that do?


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## Lunar-Tech (Nov 21, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> There is no such thing as a 'third world country'. Mods..is there a 'smilie' for exasperation?
> I thought I'd pointed that out.
> 
> 
> ...


Agressió del Mossos d'Esquadra a un menor a Tarragona #14N #vagageneral - YouTube

evidence enough I think !


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## JeanP (Sep 11, 2010)

Lunar-Tech said:


> Agressió del Mossos d'Esquadra a un menor a Tarragona #14N #vagageneral - YouTube
> 
> evidence enough I think !


"Third world" or Developing nation?? Surely not.
The video you provided, as disgusting as it is, certainly does not prove as evidence that Spain is a "third world country". Personally it just shows me a minority of policia who is ill - disciplined who think they above the law.

If you have spent any amount of time living in a developing nation, you will certainly look at Spain in a very different light.

I spend 6 months in Spain and 6 months in South Africa, and I promise you it is like night and day.

Interesting thread though.


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Lunar-Tech said:


> Agressió del Mossos d'Esquadra a un menor a Tarragona #14N #vagageneral - YouTube
> 
> evidence enough I think !


It's extremely easy to find videos on Youtube showing police brutality in many countries, including the USA. Here's one for example: 



 and I'm sure you could find some for the UK too. 
Maybe we're all developing countries. :fencing:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lunar-Tech said:


> Agressió del Mossos d'Esquadra a un menor a Tarragona #14N #vagageneral - YouTube
> 
> evidence enough I think !


I don't. Go and view the footage of British police during the G20 demos. 

Ask the family of Ian Thompson.

I would refer you to the comment by Angela Merkel who said she supported the protests against her Government as she had lived for thirty-four years in a country where protest was forbidden.

The kind of violence by police in that clip is commonplace across the globe, I'm sorry to say.

Incidentally there was a great deal of intimidation and violence from the hardcore 'protestors'.


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## Lunar-Tech (Nov 21, 2011)

Navas said:


> It's extremely easy to find videos on Youtube showing police brutality in many countries, including the USA. Here's one for example: MSNBC on NYPD Police Brutality during Occupy Wall Street Lawrence O'donnell with "The Last Word" - YouTube and I'm sure you could find some for the UK too.
> Maybe we're all developing countries. :fencing:


I hope we are indeed all developing countries! its called progress!
The fact is that some Countries are not developed to the level they purport to be and I include Spain amongst them. This is because it regularly fails to meet what is generaly considered acceptable levels in terms of infrastructure, beaurocracy, corruption, free market, consumer rights, civil rights, etc. etc. 
Just to say that these things happen everywhere on occasion is just ducking the issue. 

So saying I have chosen Spain as my home because it does offers levels of freedom and living standards not available in the UK so it´s not all bad by any means. :clap2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lunar-Tech said:


> So saying I have chosen Spain as my home because it does offers levels of freedom and living standards not available in the UK so it´s not all bad by any means. :clap2:


Quite. If anyone comes across paradise, let me know...although I'm not so sure I want to be there..

There are disagreeable things in Spain as there are in many countries I've lived or spent time in.

But there are many, sadly, with a much worse human rights record than Spain.


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