# Living in Spain on a pension or living in the UK?



## Lo2016 (Aug 9, 2016)

Hi Everyone,
I have reached the time in my life where I've come to the conclusion this isnt the life I want to live. I'm 64 and living on my basic pension in the uk and would like to relocate to the Murcia area Spain. When I have sold my home I realise I will have enough money to purchase outright a small but adequate home for myself and my little dog in Spain but the cost of living there seems to be over and above my basic Uk pension. My thoughts are I would rather be tight for money in Spain with the lovely weather, walks with my dog and the cafe culture, than tight for money in the Uk , am I deluded? Have I left it all too late and is it as I suspect time to put the dream away? Any thoughts and info from anyone in a similar position to me would be appreciated.
Thanks Lo


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lo2016 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I have reached the time in my life where I've come to the conclusion this isnt the life I want to live. I'm 64 and living on my basic pension in the uk and would like to relocate to the Murcia area Spain. When I have sold my home I realise I will have enough money to purchase outright a small but adequate home for myself and my little dog in Spain but the cost of living there seems to be over and above my basic Uk pension. My thoughts are I would rather be tight for money in Spain with the lovely weather, walks with my dog and the cafe culture, than tight for money in the Uk , am I deluded? Have I left it all too late and is it as I suspect time to put the dream away? Any thoughts and info from anyone in a similar position to me would be appreciated.
> Thanks Lo


You will probably find that your pension will go much farther in Spain than in UK especially if you have bought a property outright (i.e. no rent nor mortgage to pay.) Council Tax and car tax here are much cheaper for similar properties/cars. Food is much cheaper and of better quality in Spain, but it is seasonal with far less being imported to satisfy people's perceived needs (i.e. do you really need to have peaches in November when there are excellent locally grown apples, pears, quinces, pomegranates and kaquis available? and in fact you will often find some is being given away because like most seasonal produce, it goes through feast and famine stages. If you don't do it already, you will learn to take advantage of that fact by preserving stuff either by freezing, bottling, drying, etc. just as your grandmother and her forbears used to do. You will find that the cuts of meat that you are used to are different and pork and chicken will become your main meats and these, again can be a bargain once you learn the cuts available in Spain which are different from in UK and to take advantage of offers. 

Until recently, we, three adults and two small dogs could manage on my monthly basic pension for normal living expenses but we live inland where the cost of living is lower.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Sorry, mucked this up, but this is the reply from *Naomira*

Originally Posted by *Lo2016*  
_Hi Everyone,
I have reached the time in my life where I've come to the conclusion this isnt the life I want to live. I'm 64 and living on my basic pension in the uk and would like to relocate to the Murcia area Spain. When I have sold my home I realise I will have enough money to purchase outright a small but adequate home for myself and my little dog in Spain but the cost of living there seems to be over and above my basic Uk pension. My thoughts are I would rather be tight for money in Spain with the lovely weather, walks with my dog and the cafe culture, than tight for money in the Uk , am I deluded? Have I left it all too late and is it as I suspect time to put the dream away? Any thoughts and info from anyone in a similar position to me would be appreciated.
Thanks Lo
*Posted by Naomira*
_
You're not old at 64 and having a pension is an advantage but I would definitely rent before I bought to see if I was happy living there long term.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sorry, mucked this up, but this is the reply from *Naomira*
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lo2016*
> _Hi Everyone,
> ...


and my response to Naomira was:
Paying out €500-600 per month in rent knocks a basic pension on the head.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lo2016 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I have reached the time in my life where I've come to the conclusion this isnt the life I want to live. I'm 64 and living on my basic pension in the uk and would like to relocate to the Murcia area Spain. When I have sold my home I realise I will have enough money to purchase outright a small but adequate home for myself and my little dog in Spain but the cost of living there seems to be over and above my basic Uk pension. My thoughts are I would rather be tight for money in Spain with the lovely weather, walks with my dog and the cafe culture, than tight for money in the Uk , am I deluded? Have I left it all too late and is it as I suspect time to put the dream away? Any thoughts and info from anyone in a similar position to me would be appreciated.
> Thanks Lo


:boxing:e

Sorry if it seems nosey, but Is it a state pension? 
You wouldn't get pension credits in Spain if you are getting them in UK
If it is and and you will not be getting any other income or have any savings, then it might become difficult in the future should you need care


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## Naomira (Feb 25, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> and my response to Naomira was:
> Paying out €500-600 per month in rent knocks a basic pension on the head.


I don't claim to be an expert on rents in Spain but I've seen cheaper places than that. I suppose it depends on whether you're looking for one or two bedrooms and the area you choose.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I am 64 too, I retired a few years ago and moved to Spain. It is a much better quality of life and you can live on very little, especially if you learn to cook and eat as the Spanish do, and don't hanker after British foods. I don't have any regrets, I love living here.

However, financially you will be very vulnerable because of two things. Firstly, the exchange rate. The pound is losing value against the euro at the moment, and with the uncertainty over Brexit nobody knows how far it will fall. This means that your pension and the money you get from your house sale could be worth less in future. 

The second thing is the very low interest rates, so if you did rent and put the money from the house sale into a savings account, you won't get much return.

Would it be possible to rent out your UK house for a while and then rent somewhere in Spain, to see how it goes?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Naomira said:


> I don't claim to be an expert on rents in Spain but I've seen cheaper places than that. I suppose it depends on whether you're looking for one or two bedrooms and the area you choose.


Indeed. You can rent a 2-bed flat for €200 in our town, but it's not on the coast.


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## Jumar (Mar 14, 2012)

There are properties in the Murcia region that can be rented from €200 a month. But it all depends on location. Some of the areas are, although pleasant, very quiet in winter. You could be the only one (or one of a few) in an apartment block. Apart from the cost of electricity I think you'd find the cost of living cheaper than in the UK, unless you want to buy food from the British shops!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I am 64 too, I retired a few years ago and moved to Spain. It is a much better quality of life and you can live on very little, especially if you learn to cook and eat as the Spanish do, and don't hanker after British foods. I don't have any regrets, I love living here.
> 
> However, financially you will be very vulnerable because of two things. Firstly, the exchange rate. The pound is losing value against the euro at the moment, and with the uncertainty over Brexit nobody knows how far it will fall. This means that your pension and the money you get from your house sale could be worth less in future.
> 
> ...


Very good advice. Apart from exchange rates, the other great unknowns at the moment is whether the British Government will continue to pay for the healthcare of UK state pensioners in Spain when/if the UK leaves the EU, and whether they will continue to pay annual state pension increases - both of those things could significantly impact the OP if the worst case scenario came to pass (which it may not, of course).

Other things to be aware of that will cost someone in that position more in Spain than they would in the UK are:-

bus fares (if the OP doesn't want the expense of running a car). In Andalucia, for example, over 65s can obtain a card giving them half price bus fares, but we don't have free bus passes as they do in the UK.

Council Tax - I know Council Tax (IBI) is generally very low here, but I have an aunt in the UK who receives pension credit as otherwise she would have only the basic state pension, and she pays no Council Tax at all. She also gets a small reduction on her electricity bill (called Warm Front or something similar, I think) - not available here.

Dental care - there are no NHS dentists in Spain, so private dental care would have to be paid for.

Prescriptions - even if the UK Government does carry on paying for pensioners' healthcare, the OP would still have to pay 10% of the cost of any prescriptions, although this should be capped at €8 per month for anyone with an income below €18,000 pa.

Lots of other things are much cheaper here, as you and others have said, like food, and heating costs would almost certainly be lower so long as the OP didn't choose a location which gets very cold weather in winter (which a lot of places inland do).

Rents in inland places would be lower, yes, but I think you'd have to balance that against winter heating bills and the probable need for air conditioning in the higher summer temperatures inland too. Someone coming to Spain to live alone might need more companionship from other English speaking people than they'd find in most small inland places, although the local people are very welcoming and friendly, and public transport services tend to be more plentiful around the coastal areas.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

The OP could supplement her income with her proceeds from the house, or, if finances allow, buy a lower priced house and have some in the bank


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Dental care - there are no NHS dentists in Spain, so private dental care would have to be paid for.


Dental treatment can be carried out by the NHS, but it is restricted to extractions and little more so you really need to go privately, but thought I'd point it out before someone else does!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The Ayuntamiento de Murcia (that will be the city of Murcia rather than the region) seems to have an extremely good range of support services for older people (including free transport for those without pensions or whose pension is below the national minimum income), meals delivered to the home, sports and leisure activities, etc. You would certainly need to be Spanish speaking to avail yourself of them, however, both to be able to deal with the application process and to communicate with those providing the services.

https://www.murcia.es/documents/11263/218498/GuiaRecursosMunicipalesMayores.pdf

I know you're only 64 but it can be reassuring to know that these kinds of services are available in Spain, despite the popular belief that they don't exist here, in later life if you come to need them.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

In Puerto de Mazarron there is a Pensioners club, where you can get cheap meals, go on day trips, have services such as physiotherapist, chiropodist , etc
However there are very few British members, so unless you are fluent in Spanish, and have some friends, it could be rather awkward on your own


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## Lo2016 (Aug 9, 2016)

extranjero said:


> :boxing:e
> 
> Sorry if it seems nosey, but Is it a state pension?
> You wouldn't get pension credits in Spain if you are getting them in UK
> If it is and and you will not be getting any other income or have any savings, then it might become difficult in the future should you need care


Yes correct only a state pension that is why I'm dubious.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lo2016 said:


> Yes correct only a state pension that is why I'm dubious.


if you buy a small place and have some over as a cushion, then you should be ok
If you rent and have all the money from your UK house sale, again, no problem


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## Lo2016 (Aug 9, 2016)

Gosh thank you all for your quick response. You have all given me more food for thought and I am very grateful. Not all the info is as black as I envisaged so I will find out some more. Guess its not time to give up on my dream just yet  Anymore advice from people in my position will be gratefully recieved. Thanks Lo


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lo2016 said:


> Yes correct only a state pension that is why I'm dubious.


You are right to be dubious. It's all very well hearing about the better quality of life, fresh fruit and all that in Spain.....as if the UK were a hell-hole, which in most places it isn't ......but the fact is that life is never pleasant if you are beset with money worries.

In the last six months exchange rate fluctuations have seen our income, all from the UK, drop by 600 euros a month from a December high to the present exchange rate.
We can survive this, we survived parity. But with possible Brexit on the horizon the £ may drop more...

Then there's the issue of health care should Brexit take effect and the UK Government refuses to cover the cost of treatment here. You'll need to factor in 600 euros plus a month to cover that.

When taking into account living costs you also need to factor in such things as repairing or replacing domestic items, clothing, vet's fees for pets, transport costs. If you don't speak Spanish it's not always easy to get the best deal for everything.

Then there's the question of where you live. Make a mistake on that and you won't be happy, whether in Berlin, Benalmadena or Bournemouth. Houses and flats are cheap for a reason and need careful checking out before any commitment is made.
We rent. We sold all our UK properties and rent a large house with pool. The first place we rented in Spain, an apartment, was a disaster. So we moved on. Sell your UK house and find you don't like Spain after all...then what?

Life with sun, sea, sand, even mountains and villages is enjoyable and truly stress free only when you have no money worries. You really do need to try before you buy.

One other point: if you have no family you wish to leave property to, why buy? My son and dil have a house here they rarely use. To leave them another one would be a massive inconvenience for them.

Many things to be considered.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

If after Brexit the free healthcare in Spain was removed by the UK government then you could pay into the Spanish health system, /SNIP/


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> If after Brexit the free healthcare in Spain was removed by the UK government then you could pay into the Spanish health system,
> /SNIP/


Only after you have been officially registered as resident in Spain for at least one year, though - so private health insurance would be needed for at least the first year if the Government wasn't paying via the S1 form any more. With either private health insurance or the convenio especial, the full cost of any medication prescribed has to be paid, which can potentially be very expensive in the case of some drugs (not all, though). €157 per month for the convenio especial for anyone aged 65 or over is quite a lot to pay for someone on a basic state pension.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Sometimes private healthcare can work out cheaper than the state version- though less ailments covered


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

One thing we have all forgotten to mention which you would no longer be able to receive if you moved to Spain is the Winter Fuel Allowance - it was withdrawn from pensioners living in most EU countries last year. Just one more thing to take into account when doing your sums, I'm afraid.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Some sensible replies. The Government tops basic pension up to around£155 plus you probably may not pay any Council tax. The tax may be less in Spain but it is more out of your basic. That could mean a drop in income of a few thousand a year. 

Why not consider renting out your UK home and you will probably have a surplus after paying rent in Spain.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Some sensible replies. The Government tops basic pension up to around£155 plus you probably may not pay any Council tax. The tax may be less in Spain but it is more out of your basic. That could mean a drop in income of a few thousand a year.
> 
> Why not consider renting out your UK home and you will probably have a surplus after paying rent in Spain.


 Do you mean the Government tops it up to £155 with pension credits? That's mean tested though


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Do you mean the Government tops it up to £155 with pension credits? That's mean tested though


The Pension Guarantee tops up income for a single person to 155 per week. To be eligible you must have less than 16k in savings, but if you own your own home that is not taken into account. Receiving the Pension Guarantee is the passport to other benefits like exemption from Council Tax (my aunt pays none at all), free dental treatment, etc. 

One of the things my aunt gets because she receives the Pension Guarantee is the Warm Home Discount on her winter electricity bills - that's up to 140 pounds off electricity bills between October and April in addition to the Winter Fuel Allowance and and cold weather payments that may be payable if the weather is extraordinarily cold.

https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme/what-youll-get


If she needs to take a taxi to get to a hospital appointment she can claim back the cost of that, too.

My aunt is fond of saying she has never been so well off in her life, but then again she is over 90 and never goes out!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> The Pension Guarantee tops up income for a single person to 155 per week. To be eligible you must have less than 16k in savings, but if you own your own home that is not taken into account. Receiving the Pension Guarantee is the passport to other benefits like exemption from Council Tax (my aunt pays none at all), free dental treatment, etc.
> 
> My aunt is fond of saying she has never been so well off in her life, but then again she is over 90 and never goes out!


I understand pension credits aren't available if you live in Spain?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> I understand pension credits aren't available if you live in Spain?



They aren't. That's what we've been pointing out to the OP, that if she is claiming everything she is presently entitled to in the UK, then she would have less to live on if she were to move to Spain, so she needs to factor that into her calculations.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> Only after you have been officially registered as resident in Spain for at least one year, though - so private health insurance would be needed for at least the first year if the Government wasn't paying via the S1 form any more. With either private health insurance or the convenio especial, the full cost of any medication prescribed has to be paid, which can potentially be very expensive in the case of some drugs (not all, though). €157 per month for the convenio especial for anyone aged 65 or over is quite a lot to pay for someone on a basic state pension.


I was guessing the OP was selling or about to sell her house and move soon, being a pensioner she would have qualified for the free healthcare and been here at least a year before the Brexit, avoiding the private healthcare. Yes I agree it could be expensive depending on your circumstances but I thought it was an idea to show that option.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Needs also to be carful re her house sale regarding any tax implications in Spain


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Needs also to be carful re her house sale regarding any tax implications in Spain


True, and if she rented the house out she could be liable to pay tax on the rental income in Spain, couldn't she? Plus have to do a Modelo 720 return if the purchase price of the house was over €50,000.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat;10791921ometimes private healthcare can work out cheaper than the state version- though less ailments covered[/QUOTE said:


> Private health care for anyone aged over 65 will be extremely expensive and if you have existing conditions you will find it hard to get cover at any cost.
> 
> Apologies, I got the cost of Convenio Especial wrong, as Lynn says it's 175 euros a month, still a lot for anyone on a basic State Pension.
> 
> ...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Private health care for anyone aged over 65 will be extremely expensive and if you have existing conditions you will find it hard to get cover at any cost.
> 
> Apologies, I got the cost of Convenio Especial wrong, as Lynn says it's 175 euros a month, still a lot for anyone on a basic State Pension.
> 
> ...


The Convenio Especial costs €157 per month for anyone aged 65 or over, plus 100% of the cost of any medication required.

Actually I think the majority of retired people (or working ones, come to that) have to watch either the pounds or the euros to a greater or lesser extent, and cut their coat according to their cloth. Those who can afford absolutely anything they'd like or to live in any area of any country they choose are relatively few.

I had been wondering recently whether life in Spain is still cheaper for us now that we have pensions to pay tax on, as of course we pay more income tax in Spain than we would in the UK. I sat down to work it out last night, prompted by this thread, and despite the tax and the fact that we pay for private health insurance here, I still think we're at least €2,000 a year better off here than we would be in the UK, if we wanted to live in the same way and do what we do here. 

The problem for anyone contemplating the move who qualifies for Pension Credit and thus gets quite a lot of additional benefits is that all those things would have to be paid for out of a reduced income in Spain, which may make the move not such a good one. Anyone with a modest pension but who does not qualifiy for Pension Credit might find the opposite, as the things they have to pay for in full in the UK are probably cheaper in Spain.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Private health care for anyone aged over 65 will be extremely expensive and if you have existing conditions you will find it hard to get cover at any cost.
> 
> Apologies, I got the cost of Convenio Especial wrong, as Lynn says it's 175 euros a month, still a lot for anyone on a basic State Pension.
> 
> ...



To quote " right back at ya!"- my figures too were somewhat materialistic / selfish in that they were for wifey and myself 46/53 not older citizens- at our age with reasonable health I stand over my claim private is cheaper than state


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> To quote " right back at ya!"- my figures too were somewhat materialistic / selfish in that they were for wifey and myself 46/53 not older citizens- at our age with reasonable health I stand over my claim private is cheaper than state


It depends entirely on which company you choose, as some companies would be charging more than the €60 per month which the Convenio Especial costs for under 65s (and private health insurance premiums go up each year, whereas the Convenio Especial charges have stayed the same since they were introduced).

But for the topic of this thread Mary is right, anyone moving out here when aged 65 or over would, if they found themselves either having to pay for private health insurance or the Convenio Especial in the event of the UK Government no longer covering their healthcare costs, have a hefty additional financial burden to bear.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well at the end of the day life's about choices and of course you shop around and chose a company that's cheaper and more suitable to your needs


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

z


Rabbitcat said:


> Well at the end of the day life's about choices and of course you shop around and chose a company that's cheaper and more suitable to your needs


You're relatively young, and probably have few health problems
Most going to live in Spain are elderly with chronic conditions, many which may not be accepted by health Insurance, or, if they are, at a very high premium.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> Actually I think the majority of retired people (or working ones, come to that) have to watch either the pounds or the euros to a greater or lesser extent, and cut their coat according to their cloth. Those who can afford absolutely anything they'd like or to live in any area of any country they choose are relatively few.
> .


I'm not so sure that most retired folk are that badly off. Some retirees are better off than many younger working people. Children off their hands, mortgages paid off, some with good FSSs.....
Of course most retired folk, in fact most people, aren't in the 'I can do whatever I like, I can afford it' category.
But having spent years saving and planning for a good retirement income as well as sticking at a job that bored me to ******y because of the Final Salary Pension Scheme, for the first time in my life I have no money worries.
I'm not rich and I don't have a luxurious lifestyle although obviously I have more choices than those with smaller pension incomes. But there are very many people with more money and more choices than me. As long as I am relatively fit, healthy, can buy second-hand books and eat out once a week, can walk the beach or the campo or the foothills of the Sierra, all of that free but car needed...I'm happy. Much of my time is spent volunteering at the Dog Shelter or with local politics, all free.
The key to it all is living within your means. If you have any doubts, having acquired as much information as possible, whether your means are adequate for a move to Spain, all factors carefully considered, then it's best to stay put.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Wise words.
Whilst obviously there are many factors to take into consideration the bottom line is can you afford it. 

It's easy to be seduced by SOME things being a bit cheaper but these can easily be offset by other goods/ services and of course the very volatile Euro/ Sterling exchange can and will dramatically change income for many for the foreseeable future


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Well, I still maintain that it's cheaper to live well in Spain on a small income. For a start, housing is massively cheaper, both renting and buying. Say you sell a house in the UK for £300k and buy one here for £100k (€116k), you'll have €232,000 capital, which assuming you live another 25 years, is over €9,000 a year even if it earns no interest at all!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Of course, it isn't only people on low incomes who sometimes decide living in Spain would be too expensive for them. I have read plenty of comments from wealthier people over the years who have decided that they don't want to become resident in Spain because they would not relish paying the higher taxes here, so in that sense they are watching the pounds too.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

That's why it's best being dirt poor like me

Can't take the britches off a highlander etc plus I am grateful to expatforum members for my upcoming crowd funding appeal- get Rabbitcat to Valencia Fund- please give generously


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## Jesnat (Mar 5, 2016)

Personally I don't think it's ever too late to give things a try. Yes there are obstacles like concerns over healthcare, FX rates, Brexit, and so on - but they can be overcome. The overwhelming view on this forum seems to be not to burn your bridges in the UK by selling up and buying in Spain until you are 101% sure and even then consider long term rental. We are in a reasonably similar position. We rent our UK house and we rent long term here. Our UK rent doesn't cover our total living costs and so we are running down our savings until my state pension kicks in a few years. I think renting in Spain is a really viable option, funded by renting a UK home and/or by selling up and then slowly running down the capital/savings. We started the process by assessing how viable our place was to rent out for a couple of years so we can get the feel of Spain before committing to anything long term. Good luck with your decision. And it's really dog friendly here too!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jesnat said:


> Personally I don't think it's ever too late to give things a try. Yes there are obstacles like concerns over healthcare, FX rates, Brexit, and so on - but they can be overcome. The overwhelming view on this forum seems to be not to burn your bridges in the UK by selling up and buying in Spain until you are 101% sure and even then consider long term rental. We are in a reasonably similar position. We rent our UK house and we rent long term here. Our UK rent doesn't cover our total living costs and so we are running down our savings until my state pension kicks in a few years. I think renting in Spain is a really viable option, funded by renting a UK home and/or by selling up and then slowly running down the capital/savings. We started the process by assessing how viable our place was to rent out for a couple of years so we can get the feel of Spain before committing to anything long term. Good luck with your decision. And it's really dog friendly here too!!


Yep!!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Jesnat said:


> Personally I don't think it's ever too late to give things a try. Yes there are obstacles like concerns over healthcare, FX rates, Brexit, and so on - but they can be overcome. your decision.


Obstacles like concerns over healthcare, FX rates cannot be overcome unless you have the finances to overcome them.

How can you 'overcome' not having money for health care or cope with a 10% reduction in income if you are on a fixed sterling income ?


I don't know how long you've been in Spain so maybe you are not aware that tens of thousands of retired Brits found they could not 'overcome' these very serious obstacles and went back to the UK, some taking serious financial hits on property prices.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

personally, I have to say the two main issues are, for the future


Healthcare
Pensions

Following the vote these two key issues are very much in the air.


As someone said, many things can be overcome, lack of money and no health care cannot.

We live on very little. Providing we are still here to collect a pension, and providing health care for pensioners continues we are secure

But for the moment these are both unknowns.


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## Lo2016 (Aug 9, 2016)

*Living in Spain on a pension*

Thank you all very much for all your info. and advice. It certainly has given me food for thought. Luckily I am in good health and do not have presciptions, but as you say I must give serious consideration to health care in the future. I am going to have to try and find out the cost and list all monthly utilities and outgoings I will need in Spain.
I am living with someone at present (who is still not pensionable age and does not want to relocate to Spain) so I am not entitled to the different allowances the Gov. gives OP's mentioned by people on here, apart from the cold weather grant. So I realise I am working on a real basic flat rate pension. Too be honest I have a sick feeling that although I can buy an adequate comfortable home in Spain with no mortgage, there would not be that much left over in way of savings as a cushion. So I would need the basic pension to cover all my living expenses plus the odd night out and to enjoy the cafe culture. I have simple pleasures but do like to socialise now and then. 
The more I read from everyone on here the more I am thinking its an impossible dream unless I can get a like minded, retired person to share my abode and living expenses. Never the less I will do my maths and research. If there is anyone out there in my position perhaps you can help with the costings please. Thank you all again for your help, advice and info.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Lo2016 said:


> Thank you all very much for all your info. and advice. It certainly has given me food for thought. Luckily I am in good health and do not have presciptions, but as you say I must give serious consideration to health care in the future. I am going to have to try and find out the cost and list all monthly utilities and outgoings I will need in Spain.
> I am living with someone at present (who is still not pensionable age and does not want to relocate to Spain) so I am not entitled to the different allowances the Gov. gives OP's mentioned by people on here, apart from the cold weather grant. So I realise I am working on a real basic flat rate pension. Too be honest I have a sick feeling that although I can buy an adequate comfortable home in Spain with no mortgage, there would not be that much left over in way of savings as a cushion. So I would need the basic pension to cover all my living expenses plus the odd night out and to enjoy the cafe culture. I have simple pleasures but do like to socialise now and then.
> The more I read from everyone on here the more I am thinking its an impossible dream unless I can get a like minded, retired person to share my abode and living expenses. Never the less I will do my maths and research. If there is anyone out there in my position perhaps you can help with the costings please. Thank you all again for your help, advice and info.


It is difficult for a single person as I'm sure it costs almost as much to maintain a single person household as it does if there are two people living there. Everyone will also tell you that it's well nigh impossible to give a meaningful estimate of costs because it depends on so many variables - size and type of accommodation, the climate where you live can drastically affect heating bills in winter and cooling bills in summer, some costs can vary widely by area eg IBI (Council Tax) and water charges, whether electricity or gas is used for cooking, heating and heating water, who your phone and internet suppliers are, etc. I can give you my own expenses but others will say theirs are quite diffferent.

There are 2 of us living in a 3 bed house (no pets), no swimming pool or garden and no air conditioning. Our bills are:-

Food - €70 per week (have spent the same since we arrrived nearly 10 years ago)
Electricity - averages around €48 per month (we use bottled gas for cooking and almost all our heating but have an electric water heater)
Gas (bottled) - €115 per year at today's prices of €11.27 per 12.5kg bottle (10 bottles per year)
Water . average €15 per month
Internet - €18 per month
IBI - €328 per year (but I get a big discount from my local authority and without that the bill would be €570)
Phone . we don't have landline and just use PAYG mobiles in conjunction with Localphone for calls to the UK, probably spend around €10 per month in total
House insurance - €290 per year
Dental costs - €40 for annual check-up and cleaning, haven't needed anything else

On top of that you'd have to budget for transport costs (we don't have a car), entertainment and socialising, clothes and shoes, hairdressing, optician if applicable, household maintenance if you own a property, replacing appliances and household items when necessary, and you really need an amount put by in case of emergency.

The potential healthcare costs if the UK Government did stop paying for pensioners' healthcare in the future have already been explained earlier in the thread.

Good luck with your calculations.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lo2016 said:


> Thank you all very much for all your info. and advice. It certainly has given me food for thought. Luckily I am in good health and do not have presciptions, but as you say I must give serious consideration to health care in the future. I am going to have to try and find out the cost and list all monthly utilities and outgoings I will need in Spain.
> I am living with someone at present (who is still not pensionable age and does not want to relocate to Spain) so I am not entitled to the different allowances the Gov. gives OP's mentioned by people on here, apart from the cold weather grant. So I realise I am working on a real basic flat rate pension. Too be honest I have a sick feeling that although I can buy an adequate comfortable home in Spain with no mortgage, there would not be that much left over in way of savings as a cushion. So I would need the basic pension to cover all my living expenses plus the odd night out and to enjoy the cafe culture. I have simple pleasures but do like to socialise now and then.
> The more I read from everyone on here the more I am thinking its an impossible dream unless I can get a like minded, retired person to share my abode and living expenses. Never the less I will do my maths and research. If there is anyone out there in my position perhaps you can help with the costings please. Thank you all again for your help, advice and info.


I really hope you will be able to find some way of making a life for yourself in Spain as unlike some reckless folk you are clearly being cool and level-headed about what is a very important decision with many far-reaching implications.

Lynn's budget figures are useful but as she would admit they would be different from mine. We live several km further down the coast, sold all our properties when we moved and now rent and live in an area where rents and property prices in general are higher than other parts of Spain.
It all depends on location and of course your preferred lifestyle.
There are two of us and two very large dogs. Our shopping bill is always over 100 euros a week and that doesn't include meat or wine, OH is vegetarian and doesn't drink alcohol. We spend a lot on food for our dogs and on the stray cats which have taken up residence in our garden.
We run a car each as public transport here is good but doesn't take us to the places we need to go to, such as the dog shelter at which we both volunteer and which is situated in the campo and doesn't run late at night -we like to dine out late and have a coffee and then wander along the seafront well past midnight. We enjoy our life here.
Baldy, with his legendary frugality, has an equally enjoyable life on a relatively low budget.
I think that once you have lived here for a year or more, learnt to speak reasonably good Spanish and 'know the ropes', you can find ways to keep costs down without compromising your chosen lifestyle. We have managed to find local Spanish electricians, plumbers etc at reasonable prices whereas non-Spanish speaking friends pay rip-off prices to British and Spanish tradespeople who take advantage of their lack of local knowledge.
We chose the house we rent because it has a very large garden, great for our dogs. Far too much for us to look after. So we have a local man who comes to cut the grass, keep trees and shrubs in order, look after the pool, do little jobs round the house...he costs us 100 euros a month as there isn't that much work, really, about eight hours if that. A non-Spanish speaking friend pays her handyman/gardener 300 euros a month for the same amount of work....

I think the key to your dilemma is whether you buy or rent in Spain. If you have no family you wish to leave your Spanish house to I'd sell your UK house, invest the proceeds and rent.
Which is what we did and are living happily everafter


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I think that once you have lived here for a year or more, learnt to speak reasonably good Spanish and 'know the ropes', you can find ways to keep costs down without compromising your chosen lifestyle. We have managed to find local Spanish electricians, plumbers etc at reasonable prices whereas non-Spanish speaking friends pay rip-off prices to British and Spanish tradespeople who take advantage of their lack of local knowledge.


What Mary says is very true. It costs money (if you take lessons at a language school, although some Spanish local authorities offer free classes for foreigners) to learn Spanish, but the outlay can be recouped over and over again. Not only do you never need to pay for an interpreter to accompany you to a doctor or hospital visit, to sort out some official matter at the Town Hall or with a utility company, but you can as she says use local tradesmen who are far, far cheaper. Earlier this year I had the whole of the inside of my house painted (160sqm) and it cost me a total of €100 (plus the cost of the paint) because a non-English speaking Spanish neighbour did it. He only actually asked for €80 but I felt I couldn't pay him so little. Our Spanish electrician charged us €15 for coming out (within an hour of us ringing him) on a Sunday evening to sort out an emergency problem.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

My advice is always to hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Imagine a scenario where you break your leg, for example. Would you manage? The support network you might take for granted in the UK might not be available here. Lifelong friends that might drop everything to help you out need time to cultivate.

There are properties in Spain that are amazingly cheap. Often, however, they are off the beaten track or need updating. More importantly, they tend to be in areas where nobody speaks a word of English. Buying a property and keeping a nest egg are therefore possible, if you are prepared. Living in a village with shops and a community, your own home, pension income and money in the bank is achievable. Learning the language is the best way to succeed here, wherever you go and however you live. Start learning, if you haven't already. Even if you don't move here, language learning will fend off dementia!

As for the cost of living here, you could use this article as a rough guide:
https://eastofmalaga.net/2015/07/20/cost-of-living-in-malaga-spain-july-2015/
Or use this site to input two areas to compare:
Cost of Living


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

We are a couple living in a two bedroomed bungalow.
We have our own pool so that our water and electricity would be slightly higher than yours would be.

My wife receives a basic UK state pension and last time she received 612€, not the best but certainly not the worst, for a four week period.

We spent 80€ a week, 320€ for the 4 weeks, last month and we do not stint, that amount includes wash powder, wine, beer and soft drinks too.

Electricity cost us 23€ per week, 92€ for the 4 weeks, and that includes hot water and winter heating.

Our local rates, SUMA, cost 5.75€ per week, 23€ for the 4 weeks

Water costs us 8€ per week, 32€ for the 4 weeks

House insurance costs us 5€ per week, 20€ for the 4 weeks.

Television, telephone and internet costs 10€ per week, 40€ for the 4 weeks. This is for English freeview type TV including all the main UK channels, Spanish TV channels, English and Spanish radio channels, free telephone calls to Europe and WIFI internet

Total cost 527€ for the 4 weeks, leaving you with only 85€ spare for the 4 weeks, or 20€ per week although your food bill may be up to 50% less than ours.

Having said that, where we live, which is in the suburbs of a large town, pensioners have free healthcare and prescriptions, curtesy of UK as long as you are resident in Spain. Our local authority also provides free, regular, year round buses throughout their area. We are 30 minutes bus ride to town/seaside. We are only a stroll away from natural parkland surrounding a lake. We have all nationalities living year round locally and are a stroll away from shops, bars and restaurants and a major supermarket. 

There are lots of places where you can get a good quality, good portion 3 course meal with bread and wine for 10€ for an occasional treat. 

The cheapest property we have on our urbanization is a one bedroomed town house, single storey for around 50,000€.

You would not have much to spare, moneywise, but your quality of life would, we believe, be a lot better with the good weather and Mediterranean diet. You would soon make new friends here too.

Anyway, that is my fourpenny´th for what it´s worth. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Private health care for anyone aged over 65 will be extremely expensive and if you have existing conditions you will find it hard to get cover at any cost.
> 
> Apologies, I got the cost of Convenio Especial wrong, as Lynn says it's 175 euros a month, still a lot for anyone on a basic State Pension.
> 
> ...


One does not have to be centimo-pinching, just think twice about buying exceptional extras. I'd like to have a car that is just a bit bigger to make it easier to carry either the wheelchair or the mobility scooter plus the requisites for the three of us plus two dogs, on holiday. BUT we can't afford it just now after having had a chairlift installed and prepaying for the suegra's funeral. Otherwise we can manage quite well.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> The cheapest property we have on our urbanization is a one bedroomed town house, single storey for around 50,000€.


Would a house on your urbanization incur monthly community fees on top of the local rates, Steve? Most properties on urbanizations do, as do apartments.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

SteveSainty- surely a basi state pension is quite a bit less than that, unless it's the new state pension
How do you get free prescriptions?
Don't all state pensioners still pay 10% of the cost?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> SteveSainty- surely a basi state pension is quite a bit less than that, unless it's the new state pension
> How do you get free prescriptions?
> Don't all state pensioners still pay 10% of the cost?


In the Comunidad Valenciana pensioners with an income under 18,000€ a year get free prescriptions - since January this year iirc


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The absolute basic state pension is 119.30 per week, for those who were receiving it before 1 April 2016. For a 4-week period, at today's exchange rate that equates to €555.69 although we don't know that exchange rates won't fall still further, thus reducing that amount. In time, perhaps they will rise again but nobody can count on that.

If the OP receives any Additional State Pension that amount could be more.

But if she feels that after selling her house and buying a property in Spain she would be unlikely to have much left over to provide a financial cushion, that amount of income to pay for everything (and Baldilocks mentioned something no-one else has, which is funeral costs - not a nice prospect but everyone needs to have "enough to bury themselves" as my elderly relatives always say) then that does seem extremely tight to me, and if there were any large unexpected expenses it could be disastrous. I've seen people here in the past who were suffering from toothache and said they couldn't afford to go to the dentist. Being in a situation like that really doesn't seem like a better quality of life to me.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> The absolute basic state pension is 119.30 per week, for those who were receiving it before 1 April 2016. For a 4-week period, at today's exchange rate that equates to €555.69 although we don't know that exchange rates won't fall still further, thus reducing that amount. In time, perhaps they will rise again but nobody can count on that.
> 
> If the OP receives any Additional State Pension that amount could be more.
> 
> But if she feels that after selling her house and buying a property in Spain she would be unlikely to have much left over to provide a financial cushion, that amount of income to pay for everything (and Baldilocks mentioned something no-one else has, which is funeral costs - not a nice prospect but everyone needs to have "enough to bury themselves" as my elderly relatives always say) then that does seem extremely tight to me, and if there were any large unexpected expenses it could be disastrous. I've seen people here in the past who were suffering from toothache and said they couldn't afford to go to the dentist. Being in a situation like that really doesn't seem like a better quality of life to me.


If somebody on his/her own dies "sin recursos" and there is not enough money to bury them, then the Ayuntamiento steps in and, presumably, regains what it can from the person's estate. In our case, the suegra is 85 so the odds are on her popping off first and we just didn't want that bill to come up later. SWMBO and I have our funerals covered by a Mapfre insurance.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> If somebody on his/her own dies "sin recursos" and there is not enough money to bury them, then the Ayuntamiento steps in and, presumably, regains what it can from the person's estate. In our case, the suegra is 85 so the odds are on her popping off first and we just didn't want that bill to come up later. SWMBO and I have our funerals covered by a Mapfre insurance.


Very wise - so the funeral insurance would be another potential expense for the OP to include in her budget.

Have just realised that the basic state pension income I worked out above would not actually be enough to allow the OP to register as a resident in Spain - the amount of income you are required to show to prove that you will not be a burden on the state is not set in stone, but usually the figure quoted is a minimum of €600 per month plus you must show that you are covered for healthcare. At the moment, and for the next 2 years in all probability, the S1 form takes care of that for state pensioners, but it's what may happen after that which is the worry.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> One does not have to be centimo-pinching, just think twice about buying exceptional extras. I'd like to have a car that is just a bit bigger to make it easier to carry either the wheelchair or the mobility scooter plus the requisites for the three of us plus two dogs, on holiday. BUT we can't afford it just now after having had a chairlift installed and prepaying for the suegra's funeral. Otherwise we can manage quite well.


Like I said, it all depends on disposable income.
We enjoy eating out at 'nice' restaurants. We'll be out this Saturday at a good restaurant in town and it will cost around 40 -50 euros a head. We like to do that one Saturday a month, the other three weeks we'll eat somewhere nice but not quite that expensive.. Last night we spent 30 euros for a good Indian meal for two.
I don't smoke, don't drink much so what we spend on a month of eating out would be as much as a couple who smoke or drink regularly.
We haven't had a holiday for about five years, we were planning on going to France for the summer but that got knocked on the head when I got elected ADANA President.
So our eating out hobby probably costs on an annual reckoning less than a smoking, drinking, holiday taking couple. Neither of us has paid for flights to the UK since 2010 when Sandra's mother died and she stopped flying each week to Scotland.
I haven't paid for a UK flight ever, all business/expenses paid.

The point I'm making is this: we each have our own lifestyle choices and preferences.
You may find these change when you come to Spain. Ours did. We didn't eat out much in the UK or Prague but in Prague we compensated by going to the cinema, opera and concert hall quite a lot.

Everyone needs a 'lifestyle' when you retire. After a life of 9-5 or whatever work, you suddenly find you have time on your hands, whether that time is spent in Spain, the UK, anywhere. There is for most people a limit to how long you are thrilled and excited by the change of scenery, climate, customs, everything in fact that makes one country different from another. Sooner or later most people will need another form of diversion. Not all diversions and amusements cost money but sadly, most do, either directly or indirectly.
So, bottom line, you need some slack in your budget. It's not enough to just be able to cover the basics.
That's my view.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

It is very individual after you add up the essentials- which in themselves can be very individual

Personally I would have no chance of existing in Spain if it wasn't for the considerable loan I am going to approach gorgeous, witty, intelligent generous young Mrypg


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> Would a house on your urbanization incur monthly community fees on top of the local rates, Steve? Most properties on urbanizations do, as do apartments.


Hi Lynn R, no, most of the properties on our urb. are not in communities and therefore do not incur community fees.

There are a few communities on our urb. mostly with community pools, and a few low rise apartment blocks that attract community fees, as you say.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

extranjero said:


> SteveSainty- surely a basi state pension is quite a bit less than that, unless it's the new state pension
> How do you get free prescriptions?
> Don't all state pensioners still pay 10% of the cost?


Yes it is a basic state pension, about 119 GBP a week. We receive state health care via the S1 and used to pay the 10% charge until January 1 this year when the 10% charge was removed. I do not know whether this is just in Valencia Province.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

stevesainty said:


> Yes it is a basic state pension, about 119 GBP a week. We receive state health care via the S1 and used to pay the 10% charge until January 1 this year when the 10% charge was removed. *I do not know whether this is just in Valencia Province.*


It's not in Andalucía


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> It is very individual after you add up the essentials- which in themselves can be very individual
> 
> Personally I would have no chance of existing in Spain if it wasn't for the considerable loan I am going to approach gorgeous, witty, intelligent generous young Mrypg


Loan available at interest rate 75%...

Seriously, though, the point I'm making is this: very few retired Brits in Spain are extremely wealthy. Neither are most on the breadline. Most of us are in the middle somewhere.
When you move to another country later in life it's a big decision. Of course you need o know how much the basics of life will cost you, things like housing costs, utilities and so on. You need to make allowances for regional variations in these costs. You need to factor in other necessary items like health and dental care, repairs etc.
But what I'm trying to say is that yes, Spain is a great, relaxed place to live, yes, the people are lovely, yes the scenery is beautiful, food is good (although in fact not that much better than what many people in the UK are accustomed to, Brits in the UK can shop well too)...all the good and interesting things about moving to a new country.

But novelty wears off and most people want more in their lives than gazing at beautiful sunsets and healthy walks in the campo. Most people talk about finding new friends, a basic human instinct. Well, friends cost money. You usually meet up for a coffee, eat out or at home together, go out for drinks, on trips together....all requiring spending even if only a little.
You may find you take up a new sport or other hobby, start visiting your gym...again, an expense.

Most people enjoy the little 'treats' in life, especially as we get older. It's nice to be able to afford them.
And all this has to be factored into your basics unless you only leave your house to go food shopping.

Tbh, if I could live a fuller life in terms of enjoying times with friends, treating myself to the little luxuries of life, more easily and more affordably in the UK than in Spain or anywhere, that's where I'd be.

Quality of life isn't just about location, there's more to it than that.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Very few retired Brits in Spain are extremely wealthy. Neither are most on the breadline. Most of us are in the middle somewhere.

But I am Irish and skint. Plus your keyboard is playing up , surely that interest rate is .75????

And don't start me off about no friends etc
Today's my 24th Wed Anniversary and I am 3000 miles away from wifey. Sob, sob


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Very few retired Brits in Spain are extremely wealthy. Neither are most on the breadline. Most of us are in the middle somewhere.
> 
> But I am Irish and skint. Plus your keyboard is playing up , surely that interest rate is .75????
> 
> ...


No mistake. 75% . Take it or leave it.

I have to ask...why, on this most auspicious of days, have you chosen to distance yourself so from your lady wife?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I guess it's understandable that people who may have very little money left over at the end of the week/month in the UK for treats to ask if they would be any better off, or at least no worse off, in Spain.

When I did my calculations as to whether we could affford to give up our jobs 10 years before we would get any pensions and move to Spain, I had to include having a sum in the budget for a certain amount of "not strictly necessary but adds to life's enjoyment" spending, as it would have been miserable without it.

The point about socialising costing money is a good one. I have know people who moved to Spain and were desperately keen to make new friends, so did a lot of entertaining, going out with people for coffees, drinks and meals practically every day. They were shocked when they realised how much they'd spent at the end of the first year. Unless you are seriously wealthy you really can't afford to live as though you are on holiday all the time once you live here.

The first year we were here, the two of us lived on 7,000 pounds for the year because we wanted to see how little we could live on if we really had to. After that the purse strings got relaxed. It was OK living frugally for a year but I wouldn't have cared to do it forevermore.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Loan available at interest rate 75%...
> 
> Seriously, though, the point I'm making is this: very few retired Brits in Spain are extremely wealthy. Neither are most on the breadline. Most of us are in the middle somewhere.
> When you move to another country later in life it's a big decision. Of course you need o know how much the basics of life will cost you, things like housing costs, utilities and so on. You need to make allowances for regional variations in these costs. You need to factor in other necessary items like health and dental care, repairs etc.
> ...


We had to take the dogs to the Vet this morning for minor things. We decided to treat ourselves to breakfast out - such extravagance 2 café con leche and two media tostadas = €3.80, the vet's bill = gratis. Can't afford to indulge in that sort of expenditure too often.

Yes, it really is cheaper to live inland!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> We had to take the dogs to the Vet this morning for minor things. We decided to treat ourselves to breakfast out - such extravagance 2 café con leche and two media tostadas = €3.80, the vet's bill = gratis. Can't afford to indulge in that sort of expenditure too often.
> 
> Yes, it really is cheaper to live inland!


That's the same as we would pay in a local café for a café con leche and a pitufo. Actually those prices are available not just inland though, at any branch of the Granier panaderías in Malaga Capital a café con leche (or solo) plus a croissant or other pastry is only €1.60, and both the coffee and the croissants are really good.

Having breakfast out is something we only do when we are away from home, though, either on a short break or just visiting a nearby town for the day. It always strikes me as rather extravagant to see Spanish families taking breakfast out every day, even though prices are so cheap. Over the course of a week it must add up to €8 per person. Just different spending habits, I suppose. I'm sure they'd balk at paying €5 per week for a Sunday newspaper as we do for our Sunday Times, or €8 for an English magazine as I do once a month.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> No mistake. 75% . Take it or leave it.
> 
> I have to ask...why, on this most auspicious of days, have you chosen to distance yourself so from your lady wife?


Well to be fair she would prefer me to be even further away!!!!!

Only joking


I am( early) retired
Wifey still works f/t so she's back in Ireland at work and I am in Southern Turkey


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Rabbitcat said:


> Well to be fair she would prefer me to be even further away!!!!!
> 
> Only joking
> 
> ...


And there's me thinking you were very young wealthy retirees , despite your protestations of poverty!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Nope

We are as poor as a church mouse who has just received an unusually large tax bill


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> We had to take the dogs to the Vet this morning for minor things. We decided to treat ourselves to breakfast out - such extravagance 2 café con leche and two media tostadas = €3.80, the vet's bill = gratis. Can't afford to indulge in that sort of expenditure too often.
> 
> Yes, it really is cheaper to live inland!





Lynn R said:


> That's the same as we would pay in a local café for a café con leche and a pitufo. Actually those prices are available not just inland though, at any branch of the Granier panaderías in Malaga Capital a café con leche (or solo) plus a croissant or other pastry is only €1.60, and both the coffee and the croissants are really good.
> 
> Having breakfast out is something we only do when we are away from home, though, either on a short break or just visiting a nearby town for the day. It always strikes me as rather extravagant to see Spanish families taking breakfast out every day, even though prices are so cheap. Over the course of a week it must add up to €8 per person. Just different spending habits, I suppose. I'm sure they'd balk at paying €5 per week for a Sunday newspaper as we do for our Sunday Times, or €8 for an English magazine as I do once a month.


in my expensive tourist town I pay 3.30€ for 2 solos & a (whole) tostada

make it 2 con leches & it would be 3.70€


sea view free


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Well to be fair she would prefer me to be even further away!!!!!
> 
> Only joking
> 
> ...


I am sure that she is sad,pale and pining as a result of your absence (enjoying yourself in Turkey while she is working) and that she is counting the seconds until you return and sweep her up in your manly embrace, murmuring tender words of endearment.....


P.S. The rate is 75%.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I am sure that she is sad,pale and pining as a result of your absence (enjoying yourself in Turkey while she is working) and that she is counting the seconds until you return and sweep her up in your manly embrace, murmuring tender words of endearment.....
> 
> 
> P.S. *The rate is 75%.*


Por semana, mes, año o qué?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Por semana, mes, año o qué?


Hora. Soy mujer dura. Muy dura.


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## Lo2016 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> It is difficult for a single person as I'm sure it costs almost as much to maintain a single person household as it does if there are two people living there. Everyone will also tell you that it's well nigh impossible to give a meaningful estimate of costs because it depends on so many variables - size and type of accommodation, the climate where you live can drastically affect heating bills in winter and cooling bills in summer, some costs can vary widely by area eg IBI (Council Tax) and water charges, whether electricity or gas is used for cooking, heating and heating water, who your phone and internet suppliers are, etc. I can give you my own expenses but others will say theirs are quite diffferent.
> 
> There are 2 of us living in a 3 bed house (no pets), no swimming pool or garden and no air conditioning. Our bills are:-
> 
> ...


Lynn R, Thank you so much for taking the time listing the costs for me. Every bit of estimated info. helps me with my calculations  I haven't given up hope! I just will have to research some more and certainly try to learn some spanish. Thank you everyone.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Out with it! Or not ..*



Pesky Wesky said:


> Dental treatment can be carried out by the NHS, but it is restricted to extractions and little more so you really need to go privately, but thought I'd point it out before someone else does!


Quite so. If you look on the NHS list of qualifying treatments, it does mention root canal. This is fiction. It is entirely at the professional discretion of the dentist.

I went to have a problem looked at. Dennis said, "Option 1 - extraction (NHS £18.00). Option 2 - root canal, save the tooth (£500). Come back at 5:30pm with your decision".

As it happens, on financial grounds I said "take it out" but he talked me into lashing out the £500.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Root canal treatment IS available on the NHS 
I was sent to a teaching hospital, (but I wasn't a Guinea pig!), it was carried out by a specialist in this and it cost me - Nothing!
If your dental practice carries it out there is a cost, though
If it means saving a tooth, it is worth it


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Root canal treatment IS available on the NHS
> I was sent to a teaching hospital, (but I wasn't a Guinea pig!), it was carried out by a specialist in this and it cost me - Nothing!
> If your dental practice carries it out there is a cost, though
> If it means saving a tooth, it is worth it


Both OH and I have had root canal and crowns on NHS. Although I hear there are some ******* Dentists who don't offer them!

Huh. Wasn't too bad a word, just a donkeys hole ha ha.


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

If there was room in your house purchase budget to lower your sights by say, 20k euros, this would make an emergency fund. If not rent, some houses here with pools rent for as low as 350e a month, there may be other ways round it.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

"The absolute basic state pension is £119.30 per week, for those who were receiving it before 1 April 2016. For a 4-week period, at today's exchange rate that equates to €555.69"

I have seen it writ somewhere that simply being in receipt of a State Pension from an EU country - irrespective of amount - is deemed to be sufficient for residencia. The rationale behind this is that the Spanish assume that a State Pension from an EU country _must be_ at least survival level. I can't find the piece wherein I read this.

The UK Gov page on residency does not mention pensioners' requirements, other than it being a source of income, in its advisory page.

Alternatively, a State Pension that is the same or greater than the Spanish State Pension is sufficient income for residency qualification. I do not know whether the basic 'welfare' pension, 340€ p.a. is the level or the 'contributory' pension of 588€ pm. The article I read about this has the annual amounts of these two pensions as 4756€ and 8228€. These are greater than the monthly x 12. Perhaps some tax wrinkle?

Spanish pension benefits

I would be grateful if those more knowledgeable about the level of Sate pension that passes for sufficient for residencia would comment.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> "The absolute basic state pension is £119.30 per week, for those who were receiving it before 1 April 2016. For a 4-week period, at today's exchange rate that equates to €555.69"
> 
> I have seen it writ somewhere that simply being in receipt of a State Pension from an EU country - irrespective of amount - is deemed to be sufficient for residencia. The rationale behind this is that the Spanish assume that a State Pension from an EU country _must be_ at least survival level. I can't find the piece wherein I read this.
> 
> ...


The reason you are finding a discrepancy is Spanish pensions are paid in 14 payments over the year which makes that annual figure about right.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

On the topic of cost of living, I bought a two bed flat 5 mins walk from plaza Ayunt in Valencia city for 76000€ inc tax and 1500€ lawyer's fees (a bit high I think), with a _total _strip out and start again reform pending, with detailed quotes for building, electric, plumbing of 12000€. 

It is what in UK agents'-speak would be called 'ex local authority' but when reformed it'll be spiffing and the location has my Spanish friends very complimentary - Mercado Central 350 metres but in a pedestrianised zone. No traffic! Con asensor!

I think it would be double for the work and x 4-5 for the flat in central Manchester or Edinburgh and x 8-10 almost anywhere in London inside the N and S Circ.

Having spent just short of the dreaded 90 days in VLC, coming back to UK was a shock to the wallet. At what I got for GBP > € back in Dec 15, I find Elegido tinto at just under GBP1 _per litre _from Consum saves loadsamoney, ie GBP4.33/litre, on anything as quaffable from Tescbury. Pata Negra tinto, a real cracker, 10€ for a box of 4 x 75cl from Mercadona, just off the main shopping street in VLC, is amazing. When I told the car hire guy who helped me load up my stuff at Xmas that this wine, which he reckoned was superb, would cost about GBP10/bottle in UK he reckoned the two of us should go into import/export. Tax dear boy, tax and duty ...

A coffee on Taunton station? €3.82 (GBP2.75)

With a La Caixa bank account, the RENFE logo on my debit card entitles me to _40% discount _on any train fare. Train fares are eyewateringly expensive in UK, astonishingly reasonable at full price, in Spain.

Even without a resident's travel perk, the Bonobus prepaid card gets you an hour on any bus or buses for 80 cents, half the individual fare. 

So I won't be running a car in VLC. 

The news about prescription charges being free in Valencia if income less than 18k€ helps, too. 

The things I spend my money on are significantly cheaper in Spain than UK and that is at Valencia inner city prices. I don't doubt that things are cheaper still outside the major city centres. My pal, up from the campo at Finestrat, nr Benidorm, was a bit miffed to pay 2€ for a beer, at our 'morning office', bar Lisboa, next to La Lonja. But 600m away, in the plaza where the clinic is, it's 1.60€

For what it is worth, I think that, unless some factor emerges in due course that plunges the UK economy into free fall, the gnomes of Zurich have now factored in the Brexit effect on the exchange rate and GBP will slowly improve against the €.

I hope I don't come to regret that, as must the property agent who came out with "I'm calling the bottom of the Spanish property market" in 2005 or so, 6 weeks before it went into a steep dive and stayed there for the next 10 years.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

There is More to life than beer wine and coffee 

Spanish plonk £3 at Tesco considerably more expensive because it because of taxes. But we earn more in UK and pay more benefits.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Isobella said:


> There is More to life than beer wine and coffee
> 
> Spanish plonk £3 at Tesco considerably more expensive because it because of taxes. But we earn more in UK and pay more benefits.


By the time you've had a refreshing beer, a sumptuous wine and an invigorating coffee, the rest is cherry on the cake. 

Anyway, I'm getting to the age where those three staffs of life are well up the charts of what's good about life. A pal of mine put in the box on Linkd-In for "your current position" "Sitting down". Quite so. Preferably with one of the above. With a knee like mine ...

The days of 3 quid wine at Tesco are long gone, tho' it is very interesting to see that all the Brit s/mkts have had to introduce ranges at GBP4 because of the excellent wines at that price in Lidl.

And of course, as you see in my earlier, I did explain to my car hire pal that it was all down to swingeing duty and tax.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Lump Sum Draw Down*

A piece of info I saw on the estimable Spanish Property Insight site - taking a lump sum from a pension pot whilst still a UK taxpayer is tax free (within the stipulated limits). Once a Spanish resident, it's taxable.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

chrisnation said:


> A piece of info I saw on the estimable Spanish Property Insight site - taking a lump sum from a pension pot whilst still a UK taxpayer is tax free (within the stipulated limits). Once a Spanish resident, it's taxable.


Absolutely true. I'd been resident in Spain for 8 years before getting mine, and paid a 5 figure tax bill this June as a result. I did know that before I moved here, though. I am almost over the trauma now.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> Absolutely true. I'd been resident in Spain for 8 years before getting mine, and paid a 5 figure tax bill this June as a result. I did know that before I moved here, though. I am almost over the trauma now.


5 figure tax bill? Wow! A nice problem to have!


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