# New from the US Would Love Advice on Spain or Portugal to Buy Flat



## Esprit9 (Aug 4, 2018)

Hello,

This is my first day on this forum. I've done some searching for advice but didn't find exact information. I live in the US and speak Portuguese and Spanish. I am a few years away from retirement and want to buy a simple apartment flat (1 or 2 bedrooms). I am a non resident. Two big questions:

* Right now which country would be best to purchase a flat?
* I would need to get a mortgage and understand needing about 50% down is needed. Which country makes getting a mortgage easier for a non resident?

Thanks in advance for helping me on this journey

Ed-


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## piccavey (Aug 6, 2018)

Hello

If you can show that you have enough to cover your living expenses and arrange healthcare both countries are equally accesible

I would consider transport links getting there and travelling from there if in the future you want to rent out to someone or sell.

Hope this helps
@piccavey


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Esprit9 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Where did you hear 50%? Maybe in Portugal. When we purchased here in Jaca we were going to pay cash but decided to get a small mortgage to establish a bank relationship. We could have gotten any % down and put the remainder on a mortgage. The bank’s deal was not to make a long term deal because we were both just over 60. We settled on a 15 year and when the euro/dollar was more favorable, paid it off. Make sure and rent long term first before you buy to get a complete picture of where you are. We did a year. 

Although the economy in Portugal is worse than Spain and the dollar goes a bit further there, we prefer Spain, especially here at the base of the Pyrenees. It rarely gets super hot here like in Southern Spain. 


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi, and welcome

Spain vs Portugal is a huge question. The counties cultures are different and I do not know what would suit you. Rural or city? How connected do you want to be? Are you OK with living with the retired and lonely, or would you be happier in the buzz and bustle of an economically vibrant area?

Respect for knowing Portuguese though.

The Spanish seem to think of the Portuguese as less happy, more serious and more old fashioned than they are. I do not know if this has any basis on truth. I live in Spain and it seems a very modern country, everything works, people are not very sexist or racist, people look forward, not back, and all of modern western comforts are available. 

Spain is a huge and diverse country, that can offer many different ways of living. You can go super rural, or inner city. You can live in green countryside, or in a dessert. You can have super hot summer, or California like year round sun. What do you want?




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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Move to one or the other and travel in both then decide. No hurry


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## Esprit9 (Aug 4, 2018)

Thank you Elyles and others for the reply. I read 50% somewhere but have received more accurate since. My wife and I would be using this as a 30 days a year until we retire where it would be a home away from home. Elylis.. you mentioned living near the Pyrenees. I lived in Algorta Spain for a year and studied in the Universidad del Pais Vasco in Bilbao while I attended Fresno State many years ago. 

We are looking for something near the water and good temperature for most of the year. We are looking for a modern town or city that has things to do.

The places we are looking at closer now are the following:
Valencia area
Santander
Around Barcelona area
* Needs to have views of the water
* Looking at 150-250€
2bedrooms 1bath


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Esprit9 said:


> Thank you Elyles and others for the reply. I read 50% somewhere but have received more accurate since. My wife and I would be using this as a 30 days a year until we retire where it would be a home away from home. Elylis.. you mentioned living near the Pyrenees. I lived in Algorta Spain for a year and studied in the Universidad del Pais Vasco in Bilbao while I attended Fresno State many years ago.
> 
> We are looking for something near the water and good temperature for most of the year. We are looking for a modern town or city that has things to do.
> 
> ...




For that price around Barcelona would be a dump however for 250 you might find something livable in the outskirts. 


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## Esprit9 (Aug 4, 2018)

Agree... Barcelona area probably won't happen. What about Alicante area with views of the water for that price ?


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

Esprit9 said:


> We are looking for something near the water and good temperature for most of the year. We are looking for a modern town or city that has things to do.
> 
> The places we are looking at closer now are the following:
> Valencia area
> ...


Full disclosure: I like Valencia capital and live 25 mins away from it.

I think Valencia would be a good choice for you. Santander and Barcelona property is much much more expensive than Valencia's, and gets cheaper still if you are prepared to commute to the city instead of living in it (the spanish don't seem to do commuting).

The city is surround by mountains, which are largely uninhabited and criss crossed with trails. Its on the coast and seems to have some sort of weird micro climate, the plus side of which means that it never really gets crippling hot (in the recent record breaking heat wave it got to 34C here, whereas other parts got as high as 46C) in summer and not that cold in winter (yes, you will need heating at night, but even in January you can expect sun every day and 18C -20C highs). The downside of valencian weather is the 3 to 4 weeks of violent storms they often get starting in late October - all those ravines did not cut themselves. 

The airport is not as connected as Barcelona or Madrid, but its easy enough to get to those places (e.g. there is a high speed rail link to the capital). When I go to the US I fly to Madrid and go from there. 

What I like about the place is that its modern and forward looking. That and that people seem happy. And its cheap (10 euros for a 3 course lunch is normal, and coffee or beers will set you back a euro).


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## Esprit9 (Aug 4, 2018)

Thank you Roland_O,

I do love Valencia and the surrounding areas. I was truely believing Santander area would be less expensive but you are correct. I'm seeing prices around Valencia and Alicante better than Santander and far less than Barcelona area. 
Would it be possible for you or someone to help me figure out what would expenses be if I were to own a home as a Non Resident and live in that home for around 100-120 days a year:
- Home in Valencia or surrounding area
- Non Resident taxes annually?
- 200 days a year the property would be vacant (Not sure best options.. leave vacant or rent out?)
- If I were to use it as an AirBNB, what would property management cost monthly for full service?
- Avg Monthly cost of gas, electric, garbage, water service to this home?

I'll create a separate thread on these if no one answers... I understand I'm starting new questions at the end of a thread.

Ed-


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

You should make sure that any area you are looking into allows Airbnbs. Towns all over Spain are banning or greatly restricting them. 

FWIW, I think Valencia city is great. That park that used to be a river is a nice way to feel like you are out of the city, the city is very walkable, the public transport is good, the airport is small but nice and laid back. At least when I have been there. My memory is that the beach area is sleepier than the center (unlike Barcelona where the beach are is just as chaotic as the center) so maybe prices close to the beach aren't bad.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

skip o said:


> You should make sure that any area you are looking into allows Airbnbs. Towns all over Spain are banning or greatly restricting them.
> 
> FWIW, I think Valencia city is great. That park that used to be a river is a nice way to feel like you are out of the city, the city is very walkable, the public transport is good, the airport is small but nice and laid back. At least when I have been there. My memory is that the beach area is sleepier than the center (unlike Barcelona where the beach are is just as chaotic as the center) so maybe prices close to the beach aren't bad.


I agree. What I didn't like about Valencia when I visited was the humidity - that kills me, but then I live in the super dry climate of Madrid.


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## Esprit9 (Aug 4, 2018)

This might be a dumb question but if Spain stops allowing AirBnB, does that mean vacation rentals would just be vacant? or are all other rental scenarios still open (booking.com, Homeaway, etc..)? What are the chances of Valencia becoming a "NO AIRBNB" city? 

It won't be for 6ish years untill I could fully move to Spain...




skip o said:


> You should make sure that any area you are looking into allows Airbnbs. Towns all over Spain are banning or greatly restricting them.
> 
> FWIW, I think Valencia city is great. That park that used to be a river is a nice way to feel like you are out of the city, the city is very walkable, the public transport is good, the airport is small but nice and laid back. At least when I have been there. My memory is that the beach area is sleepier than the center (unlike Barcelona where the beach are is just as chaotic as the center) so maybe prices close to the beach aren't bad.


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

Esprit9 said:


> Thank you Roland_O,
> 
> I do love Valencia and the surrounding areas. I was truely believing Santander area would be less expensive but you are correct. I'm seeing prices around Valencia and Alicante better than Santander and far less than Barcelona area.
> Would it be possible for you or someone to help me figure out what would expenses be if I were to own a home as a Non Resident and live in that home for around 100-120 days a year:
> ...



We have a detached house on an urbanisation. We pay about 35 euros a month for security and garbage. Property taxes come out around 1,000 a year, and I think you pay that if you are there or not. You would not have to pay spanish income taxes if you were there only 100 days a year. Electricity is about 80 a month, and the cost would only halve if your were no there. 

Valencia is one of those places that are trying to stop people renting their place out. 

Lots of people mention humidity in Valencia, but I have only seen it go high in the few hours before a thunderstorm. Normally we have a sea breeze and it’s fresh.

Hope this helps.



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## Esprit9 (Aug 4, 2018)

Yes. Your information helps alot! Thank you. You mentioned paying 35 euros for security and garbage. If I was to pay a Valencia Property Management full service for:
* Key exchange
* Cleaning service and Laundry
* locking up and opening for airBNB
* Greeting AirBNB guest

What would the monthly average fee/cost for this type of property management?



Roland_O said:


> We have a detached house on an urbanisation. We pay about 35 euros a month for security and garbage. Property taxes come out around 1,000 a year, and I think you pay that if you are there or not. You would not have to pay spanish income taxes if you were there only 100 days a year. Electricity is about 80 a month, and the cost would only halve if your were no there.
> 
> Valencia is one of those places that are trying to stop people renting their place out.
> 
> ...


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

Esprit9 said:


> Yes. Your information helps alot! What would the monthly average fee/cost for this type of property management?



Sorry, I do not know. Google Sky Properties in Valencia and ask them. They manage ex pat properties and most of them speak English.

Please don’t underestimate the risk of not being able to rent your place. People say that it will become near impossible. I don’t know if this true. Maybe talk to a lawyer before you buy anything. 

Other good things about Valencia: lots of universities, so a lot of night life, lots of.performance venues, loads of modern art galleries, low crime, happy vibe, good public transport... If you are brave, look at Cabañal, the beach district: it’s not wealthy, it is grungy, but full of life, and beautiful. 



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