# Car advice needed please?



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

My wife & I will be emigrating to Portugal in September.

I have a (registered) classic 4x4 here that has only done 120K kms since new, is easy to maintain because it has a simple engine without computers etc and is as reliable as most other cars. It also has all the things like air con etc and is very comfortable.

The car is left hand drive and so has limited resale value here in RSA & I reckon I'd only get about E35K for it here.

Assuming it costs about E2K (hopefully less) to ship over and bearing in mind I can import it into Portugal tax free, would I be better bringing it with me or is it a better idea to sell it here and buy something for about E5K over there...... and would E5K or so buy me a reasonably reliable vehicle?

I appreciate there's a hassle factor in getting it registered etc over there but I'd be willing to accept that if it'll save me money on purchase and also on lower insurance premiums as it's a classic.

FWIW, we'll be moving to central Portugal and hopefully will find somewhere slightly remote/without neighbours and I don't know if that might mean some dirt roads or not?

Also FWIW, If I do bring it, I'll probably then have a GLP conversion fitted to improve fuel consumption etc.


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

Hi,
Not sure but I thought it was only EU vehicles that qualified?


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

I was wrong.
Permanent Importation of Motor Vehicles
If you are transferring your residence to Portugal from another EU member state or from a third country, you may be able to import your motor vehicle tax-free, provided

• You are over 18;

• You have been resident in the country from where you are transferring for a minimum period of 12 months, consecutive or otherwise;

• You have held a valid driver’s licence in that country for a minimum of 12 months;

• You are transferring your normal place of residence to Portugal;

• Your vehicle was purchased fully-tax paid in the country of your former residence;

• You owned the vehicle in the country of your former residence for at least 12 months prior to transferring your residence to Portugal, from the date of issue of the vehicle registration document, or from the date on which the leasing contract was signed, as appropriate.

Importation Procedures
In order to import a vehicle, you should submit an application within six months of the date on which you transfer your residence to Portugal. The application should be made to your nearest Customs office.

The application should be submitted, together with:

a customs declaration relating to the vehicle
the vehicle’s registration certificate/logbook, as proof of ownership
your driver’s licence, valid for at least 12 months prior to the date on which you transferred your residence to Portugal
official residence certificate, issued by the competent authorities in the country of your former residence. If it is not possible to obtain this in your country of former residence, a certificate from the consulate is also acceptable. This will be issued once you have taken a statutory declaration and on presentation of your passport, tax-payer’s ID card, your residence certificate and vehicle registration document
documentary evidence of residence in the country from which you are transferring , such as rent receipts, utility bills, salary slips, proof of pension payments or national insurance contributions.
The Customs authority may request official translations of all documentary evidence.

A motor vehicle that has been imported in this way may not be sold, loaned, pledged or hired for a period of 12 months following the date on which the Portuguese registration number is attributed. In addition, in order to maintain eligibility for tax-free importation, you must continue to reside in Portugal for a minimum period of 12 months. Only one vehicle may be imported tax-free per person once every ten years.

If your application for tax-free importation is turned down, you will be notified by the Customs authority and have to declare to them, within a period of 30 days, what you intend to do with the vehicle. If you fail to do this, they will consider that the vehicle has been brought into Portugal illegally.


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## jellybean (Nov 28, 2008)

travelling-man said:


> My wife & I will be emigrating to Portugal in September.
> 
> I have a (registered) classic 4x4 here that has only done 120K kms since new, is easy to maintain because it has a simple engine without computers etc and is as reliable as most other cars. It also has all the things like air con etc and is very comfortable.
> 
> ...


Hello

My view is that it's worth the hassle of bringing your own car over and going through the matriculation process if you can do so tax free. Cars are VERY expensive here and I doubt you'd be able to get anything that would withstand remote off road driving for €5K. This is a question that's asked a lot on these forums so if you do a search you'll find quite a lot of dicussion that should help you to come to an informed decision. Good luck!


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

€5,000 won't buy you very much. Maybe an 8 year old BMW 320d. I would look into matriculating your car, if you can get the parts for it here. Use an agent, it's worth it. I have one that I have used for friends, in the past, based in Caldas da Rainha, but she doesn't speak any English.


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

Great info but you should also check that you don't fall foul of 'type approval'.

You don't say whether its a make of vehicle that is currently distributed in Portugal, if it's not then you may have problems proving that it meets regulations.

This site explains (in English just as an example) and you should ask the question with customs here before you leave there as it may make a difference to the decision on whether to sell.

Type Approval for Cars


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks folks..... import rules for classic cars are easier than for others and emission standards etc are also considerably lower. The most important criteria seems to be that it has a FIVA registration and I've owned it more than a year and the car fulfills both of those.

I'd like very much to use an agent to help me with the import and registration etc but really need an English speaking one...... can anyone out there recommend such an agent please?

I think I should be able to get about as many spares there as I can here and if not, I can always order online from the States..... I sometimes have to do that here and it's not a problem at all.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

MrBife

According to the sites I've visited the FIVA registration document serves as type approval for vehicles over 25 years old and mine is 31 years, 7 months and 11 days old. The car is a 1980 Jeep Wagoneer/Cherokee/Laredo depending on the country you're in...... basically the same vehicle just different names and the engine is the good old AMC 5.7 V8...... a bit on the thirsty side but strong as hell and they go on forever.

Importing and Registering Classic Cars in Portugal

Classic cars can be driven freely into Portugal providing they are for personal, temporary use and have the necessary vehicle taxation, insurance, and documentation.

Those wishing to import a classic car permanently into Portugal may drive the car for four days before registering it with the customs (Alfândegas).

Vehicle tax (Imposto Automóvel) must be paid for all classic cars 
Vehicles made before 1960 are taxed at a lower rate

Classic cars brought into Portugal on a permanent basis must meet the following legal requirements:

Be classified by the International Classic Car Federation (Fédération Internationale des Véhicule Anciens, FIVA)
Have a Classic Car Certificate (Certificado de Automóvel Antigo) from FIVA or ACP 
Have a Technical Logbook/Manual (Ficha Técnica) from FIVA or other competent organisation
Have a colour photograph of the vehicle
Have a vehicle Logbook (Livrete) and Owner's Document (Título de Propridade) issued in the name of the owner/driver
Have the original and latest commercial purchase receipt (Factura Comercial)
Have an Authority to Circulate Document (Guia de Circulação) issued by Customs (Alfândegas)
Vehicles from the USA, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, India or the UK must meet European Union homologation approval standards if the vehicle is less than 30 years old

Vehicles over 30 years old are classified as having cultural and historic interest to Portuguese State Heritage and do not need to undergo any kind of homologation adaptations.

As a European Union member state Portugal adheres to the Mutual Recognition Scheme which means that the IMTT needs to be sure that any vehicle imported into Portugal is suitable for use on Portuguese roads. The driver/owner must provide documentary evidence from FIVA or the manufacturer of any physical alterations made to the vehicle.
Import duty

A classic vehicle may be imported into Portugal tax-free provided:

The vehicle is for private use only
The registered owner of the vehicle is imported from another EU country where they have been resident for at least 185 days
The vehicle has been used by its registered owner in their former country for at least six months
DGV Certificate of Compliance Form Model 9 has been filled out and submitted to the DGV confirming the vehicle has undergone an inspection
The owner has submitted a copy of passport, driver's licence, residency (or application), tax details and number and at least three years' original tax returns
A certificate of cancellation of residence issued by the person's consulate

The Portuguese Classic Cars Club (Clube Português de Automóveis Antigos) has a lot of useful information (in Portuguese).


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You need to know which Port car will be imported to and where you intend to live, as you'd need to be a Registered Resident to import a vehicle, so you either need an agent in say Lisbon to act for you or where you intend to live.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks for that..... It'll be imported via Lisbon and I'm hoping my moving company will have an agent there to handle it but if anyone can recommend anyone good, I'd be very grateful?

I'm a UK passport holder so have right of residency..... but do I need an address in Portugal before I can import the car and if so, could I use my friend's address in the Algarve as a temporary measure until I get settled?


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks for that..... It'll be imported via Lisbon and I'm hoping my moving company will have an agent there to handle it but if anyone can recommend anyone good, I'd be very grateful?

I'm a UK passport holder so have right of residency..... but do I need an address in Portugal before I can import the car and if so, could I use my friend's address in the Algarve as a temporary measure until I get settled?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Residency if your move is permanent then you can Register immediately but must do it within 30 days of 3 months from date of entry.

You must be a Resident to import, as I believe you will have to pay tax (ISV) then you must start the Matriculation process within 20 days of cars entry into Portugal and also register car with Customs within 4 days.

From this information you posted you will not be able to import tax (ISV) free. These notes apply only to EU countries and transfer of Residence from another EU country.
"The vehicle is for private use only
The registered owner of the vehicle is imported from another EU country where they have been resident for at least 185 days"

You'll need to time the actual import carefully, I don't see any reason why you can't use your friends address until you have a permanent one, but all your official paperwork will need to be at this address.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Canoeman

As I read the piece below, the part in bold indicates I can import tax free from RSA.... I will however check everything with FIVA before I ship.

Importing and Registering Classic Cars in Portugal

Classic cars can be driven freely into Portugal providing they are for personal, temporary use and have the necessary vehicle taxation, insurance, and documentation.

Those wishing to import a classic car permanently into Portugal may drive the car for four days before registering it with the customs (Alfândegas).

Vehicle tax (Imposto Automóvel) must be paid for all classic cars 
Vehicles made before 1960 are taxed at a lower rate

Classic cars brought into Portugal on a permanent basis must meet the following legal requirements:

Be classified by the International Classic Car Federation (Fédération Internationale des Véhicule Anciens, FIVA)
Have a Classic Car Certificate (Certificado de Automóvel Antigo) from FIVA or ACP 
Have a Technical Logbook/Manual (Ficha Técnica) from FIVA or other competent organisation
Have a colour photograph of the vehicle
Have a vehicle Logbook (Livrete) and Owner's Document (Título de Propridade) issued in the name of the owner/driver
Have the original and latest commercial purchase receipt (Factura Comercial)
Have an Authority to Circulate Document (Guia de Circulação) issued by Customs (Alfândegas)

* Vehicles from the USA, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, India or the UK must meet European Union homologation approval standards if the vehicle is less than 30 years old

Vehicles over 30 years old are classified as having cultural and historic interest to Portuguese State Heritage and do not need to undergo any kind of homologation adaptations.*


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

BTW, I see I have to register myself as a resident before I can register the car and I only have 4 days to register the car........ So how do I achieve that process, is it difficult and/or expensive and can I use an English speaking agent to help me please?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Your bold type refers to not requiring homologation adaptations, *not to importing free of tax*.

Yes you need to be a Resident which is why I said import date of car needs to be arranged for after you've Registered which you can do* immediately*, on entry, you don't have to wait 3 months.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Ah...... I see your point. I'll have to check that. Thanks.


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

travelling-man said:


> Thanks for that..... It'll be imported via Lisbon and I'm hoping my moving company will have an agent there to handle it but if anyone can recommend anyone good, I'd be very grateful?
> 
> I'm a UK passport holder so have right of residency..... but do I need an address in Portugal before I can import the car and if so, could I use my friend's address in the Algarve as a temporary measure until I get settled?


Have used this guy and been happy with his input and knowledge, but more especially with his contacts  ...

P&aacutegina Oficial do Despachante Ferro


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Mr Bife,

Thanks. I've just emailed them!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

MrBife

None of those email addresses work...... I don't suppose you have any alternative addresses by any chance?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

The bit you need to check is whether cooperating covers your status in SA as you only qualify by being a UK National and don't appear to fit into other categories.

DGAIEC > Customs Information > Vehicle Tax > Exempt tansferência residence
Who can benefit from the exemption of ISV?


People over 18 who have resided in a EU member state or third country for at least 12 months, able to drive for a minimum period of residence in the country of origin to transfer their residence to Portugal, where they meet certain conditions.

Can still benefit from exemption from the ISV, people of Portuguese nationality or of another Member State, who have carried on business in another country for 24 months, whose income is subject to effective taxation in Portugal, from which:

Cooperating;
Teachers who have worked abroad in teaching courses in language or about Portuguese culture, lists published in accordance with the respective department;
Employees hired to provide services abroad in diplomatic and consular services or to represent Portuguese public services;
Employees of international organizations of which Portugal is a party.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks (Again!)

I've contacted an English speaking Portuguese lawyer that was recommended to me by a friend and he's looking into it for me........ I guess all I can do is wait & hope.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You still have the option of paying ISV


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks...... Presumably ISV is a tax and would you have any idea what percentage that would be please?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You need to use the simulator to calculate I'll try to find a working link.
Costs depend on age, cc, co2 so might be pricey.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Eish but I'll be pissed off if I have to leave it behind!


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

try this link....

Portuguese taxes on cars - Imposto Sobre Veículos e Imposto Único de Circulação


or

Simulador ISV método alternativo/avaliação 2011 - Imposto Sobre Veículos e Imposto Único de Circulação


used car imports
Simulador online ISV/IUC importados usados - Imposto Sobre Veículos e Imposto Único de Circulação


hope this helps


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Also remember that, in addition to the ISV, you'll have to pay IVA (VAT - value added tax) as the car comes from outside an EU countryat the current rate of 21% and the customs tax (10% I think). 
The IVA amount is calculated regarding the value of the car, plus the ISV amount, whereas the customs tax is only calculated regarding the car's value.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Found it 

Declarações Electrónicas


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Just done a canculation on my Smart which I have brought from UK. 607 euros. If it had been brought in from OUTSIDE the EU it would be 723 euros and then IVA has to be added on top of that!!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

big saving then even with €140 IVA added, think travellingman might get a shock though, but hopefully not!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks to all. 

I've got a Portuguese lawyer who specialises in these things who is looking into it for me and I'll report back as soon as I hear from him.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

and you can add his bill to the government one. GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide to do


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

siobhanwf said:


> and you can add his bill to the government one. GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide to do


Having battled with African bureaucracy for the last umpteen years I reckon it'll be well worth paying someone to help me and I really don't want to leave my Jeep behind unless I absolutely have to....... To be honest, it's about a lot more than money!


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

travelling-man said:


> Having battled with African bureaucracy for the last umpteen years I reckon it'll be well worth paying someone to help me and I really don't want to leave my Jeep behind unless I absolutely have to....... To be honest, it's about a lot more than money!


Hope all goes well for you.
Please elt us know how you get on and what the final outcome is!
Maybe some of us can learn a thing or two


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Yup. Will do. 

Bearing in mind how expensive cars are in Portugal, classics might well be a good solution for some immigrants....... esp ones from RSA (where classic cars are plentiful & inexpensive) if they can be imported at a reasonable price or even better, tax free!


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