# Spanish news



## Pesky Wesky

A thread where you can post random stuff that comes up in the news about Spain that may be of interest to others
*Chambermaids’ revolt aims to shame Spain’s rogue employers *

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/jul/15/spanish-hotel-cleaners-fightback-exploitation

This is a great example of how employers twist contracts. Governments stats show unemployment going down, which is true, but workers conditions are being lowered.



> Under most _convenios_, the women are paid €1,200 (about £1,050) a month for a 40-hour week. Cruz explains that, while the outsourced contracts often appear to offer the same conditions, there is a catch: while the contracts specify a rate per six-hour shift, they also specify how many rooms have to be done in that time, on average between 25 and 30, which is not humanly possible. As a result, the women put in unpaid overtime in order to meet their quota, bringing their hourly rate down to €3 or €4.
> Advertisement
> 
> “If the women stick to their hours and don’t meet their room quota, they’re sacked. Most of the contracts are short-term, so they’re simply not renewed and the woman is blacklisted,” Cruz says.


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## Pesky Wesky

*Spanish airline Iberia to drop pregnancy test demand*



> The Spanish airline Iberia has said it will stop requiring female job candidates to take a pregnancy test after it was fined for the practice.
> Labour inspectors in the Balearic Islands discovered the airline insisted on the tests, and fined it €25,000 (£22,000; $28,000).
> The airline argued it had only been trying to "guarantee that [pregnant women] did not face any risks".


 Spanish airline Iberia to drop pregnancy test demand - BBC News


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## Pesky Wesky

Spanish after - the - crisis - success story!!
*Halal sweets prove to be a hit for Spanish company Wonkandy*



> Andrés Pérez and Fátima Pereyra of Seville never lost hope. After the housing bubble burst in 2007 causing Spain’s economy to crash, Pérez was left unemployed. The real estate industry, to which he had dedicated 15 years of his life, had turned its back on him. Pereyra, with a long career in fashion design, saw lagging sales in clothing and wanted a way out of the hardship brought about by the economic crisis. In the midst of the storm, the couple decided to “turn the page and start a new chapter.”
> They began looking for a business that would be profitable year round and that could appeal to people of all ages. After months of research, they finally found a way to sweeten their income: fruit candy. In 2010, they founded Wonkandy (“World of natural candies”), which now exports its products to 20 countries around the world and counts on turnover of €1.2 million


https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/17/inenglish/1500303185_754596.html?rel=lom


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## Isobella

What a good idea


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## jimenato

Pesky Wesky said:


> *Spanish airline Iberia to drop pregnancy test demand*
> 
> 
> 
> Spanish airline Iberia to drop pregnancy test demand - BBC News





> The airline argued it had only been trying to "guarantee that [pregnant women] did not face any risks".


For their excuse to be true, surely they would have to re-test frequently.


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## Lynn R

Whether his death was suspcious or not, I suppose at least it will save the cost of keeping him in prison if he was ever going to actually serve time.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/19/inenglish/1500453720_454143.html


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## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> Whether his death was suspcious or not, I suppose at least it will save the cost of keeping him in prison if he was ever going to actually serve time.
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/19/inenglish/1500453720_454143.html


I hope he left a suicide note confessing to everything, where the money is and putting others in the shiit


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## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> I hope he left a suicide note confessing to everything, where the money is and putting others in the shiit


If he had that kind of information written down anywhere, who knows he might have met his death because he knew too much.


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## Pesky Wesky

This is a little out of date, but could still be of interest to Game of Thrones fans.
I've been to the first place several times and I can tell you there are quite a few steps up to the bell tower!
I think the pronunciation of the island is *gath tay lu GA che* (stress on the syllable in capitals) Those Basque names can be a little tricky!
Several new locations in Spain confirmed for Game of Thrones season 7! | Watchers on the Wall | A Game of Thrones Community for Breaking News, Casting, and Commentary


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## Megsmum

Pesky Wesky said:


> This is a little out of date, but could still be of interest to Game of Thrones fans.
> I've been to the first place several times and I can tell you there are quite a few steps up to the bell tower!
> I think the pronunciation of the island is *gath tay lu GA che* (stress on the syllable in capitals) Those Basque names can be a little tricky!
> Several new locations in Spain confirmed for Game of Thrones season 7! | Watchers on the Wall | A Game of Thrones Community for Breaking News, Casting, and Commentary



Yes they filmed in Cáceres last year, although I'm pretty sure they're coming again. Had friends who were paid to be extras. We happened to visit during the setting up, for GoT and the filming of Romeo and Juliet the film sets were amazing. Following on from the filming, there are now tours in Cáceres showing the filming locations.


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## Pesky Wesky

Megsmum said:


> Yes they filmed in Cáceres last year, although I'm pretty sure they're coming again. Had friends who were paid to be extras. We happened to visit during the setting up, for GoT and the filming of Romeo and Juliet the film sets were amazing. Following on from the filming, there are now tours in Cáceres showing the filming locations.


Romeo and Juliet?


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## Isobella

Didn't take long for this to slip down the pages
Has anyone been following the death of poor Lucia aged 3? Lots of rumours around according to a friend who lives in Pizzara. Lucia and her Parents were having dinner with other relatives at a cafe adjoining the rail station. She was playing outside with her two cousins aged 9 and 4. At 11.20pm she was missed, her dummy which they say she cried if she lost it was on the floor. Despite searches she was not found until early morning when a train driver spotted the body at the side of the line. A blow to the head was evident. TV reporter questioned why if she was lost she walked towards the dark instead of towards the village lights

The Police are presently going with the the theory that she wandered off, fell asleep and was hit by the train. Many locals dispute this as the body was 3 or 4 kilometros down the tracks. Said to be an impossible terrain to cover in the dark even for an adult. Lucia was only wearing sandals but did not even have a scratch on her feet and legs despite there being many large stones. 

According to my friend the place is buzzing with gossip and rumour, sounds similar to the books and plays by Lorca about village life. Today a reporter from Sur has put on a video of the walk he did on the track in the dark.

Los cuatro kilómetros de Lucía | Diario Sur


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## Megsmum

Pesky Wesky said:


> Romeo and Juliet?


Yes, I'm not sure who or what for, but there we saw the set for the balcón scene 


41 euros al día para los extras de 'Romeo y Julieta' - Cáceres - El Periódico Extremadura




Isobella said:


> Didn't take long for this to slip down the pages
> Has anyone been following the death of poor Lucia aged 3? Lots of rumours around according to a friend who lives in Pizzara. Lucia and her Parents were having dinner with other relatives at a cafe adjoining the rail station. She was playing outside with her two cousins aged 9 and 4. At 11.20pm she was missed, her dummy which they say she cried if she lost it was on the floor. Despite searches she was not found until early morning when a train driver spotted the body at the side of the line. A blow to the head was evident. TV reporter questioned why if she was lost she walked towards the dark instead of towards the village lights
> 
> The Police are presently going with the the theory that she wandered off, fell asleep and was hit by the train. Many locals dispute this as the body was 3 or 4 kilometros down the tracks. Said to be an impossible terrain to cover in the dark even for an adult. Lucia was only wearing sandals but did not even have a scratch on her feet and legs despite there being many large stones.
> 
> According to my friend the place is buzzing with gossip and rumour, sounds similar to the books and plays by Lorca about village life. Today a reporter from Sur has put on a video of the walk he did on the track in the dark.
> 
> Los cuatro kilómetros de Lucía | Diario Sur



Very Sad


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## webmarcos

If you want to see Mary Beard in Madrid, you have a chance 8 September (just a quick flying visit to the board from me)

https://espacio.fundaciontelefonica.com/evento/encuentro-con-mary-beard/


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## Pesky Wesky

webmarcos said:


> If you want to see Mary Beard in Madrid, you have a chance 8 September (just a quick flying visit to the board from me)
> 
> https://espacio.fundaciontelefonica.com/evento/encuentro-con-mary-beard/


Wow, thank you. I might just see if I can!


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## Pesky Wesky

Banksy in Spain?
Spanish town launches international campaign to lure Banksy to graffiti Franco's birthplace


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## Pesky Wesky

The drought from hell has arrived in Spain


> Reservoirs without water, expansive desert–like fields, lost crops, and wildfires. These are all symptoms of the persistent drought in Spain. The reservoirs are at their lowest levels since the 1990s.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/08/29/inenglish/1504014135_340158.html?rel=lom


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## Isobella

Megsmum said:


> Yes, I'm not sure who or what for, but there we saw the set for the balcón scene
> 
> 
> 41 euros al día para los extras de 'Romeo y Julieta' - Cáceres - El Periódico Extremadura


41 euros is low. It is around £100 per day in UK.


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## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> 41 euros is low. It is around £100 per day in UK.


But we are in Spain...


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## Pesky Wesky

Huge food poisoning scam perpetrated by Brits
https://majorcadailybulletin.com/ne...-eliciting-false-holiday-sickness-claims.html


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## Isobella

Pesky Wesky said:


> The drought from hell has arrived in Spain
> 
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/08/29/inenglish/1504014135_340158.html?rel=lom


There was a photo in Sur a few days ago which showed Lake Vinuela, Malaga province. It is much lower than when I saw it in June. Also mentioned that more land is going over to growing exotic fruits and needing more water. At the same time in a monthly email from Viva there was an article saying that Spain doesn't sell all it's produce It said they want it back. Haven't seen anything in normal newspapers.


http://www.yourviva.com/blog/2017/08/31/spains-fruit-oversupply-to-help-the-countrys-poor/


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## Pesky Wesky

Spanish success



> The fact that Spanish companies were awarded the contracts for extending the* Panama Canal *and constructing the *Mecca-Medina High-Speed Railway Line* epitomises the technological and innovative capacity of Spain in two key sectors for the economy, which are *construction* and *engineering* applied to infrastructures. In recent years, Spanish companies have become *world leaders* in the design, construction and operation of large infrastructure projects. This has been confirmed not only by the large contracts that they have won in numerous countries, but also by their top international rankings in the sector.


Marca España | Spanish firms: the keys to their success


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## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> There was a photo in Sur a few days ago which showed Lake Vinuela, Malaga province. It is much lower than when I saw it in June. Also mentioned that more land is going over to growing exotic fruits and needing more water. At the same time in a monthly email from Viva there was an article saying that Spain doesn't sell all it's produce It said they want it back. Haven't seen anything in normal newspapers.
> 
> 
> VIVA Blog - Spainâ€™s fruit oversupply to help the countryâ€™s poor - VIVA Blog


Weird!
I have just looked it up and it _is_ in the national press - El País, Economista etc Most blame it on the Russian veto of Fruit. MoreSave
Save​


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## Isobella

Pesky Wesky said:


> Weird!
> I have just looked it up and it _is_ in the national press - El País, Economista etc Most blame it on the Russian veto of Fruit. MoreSave
> Save​


Thank, good to know it is real as the Viva story was a bit confusing. I was puzzled by the bit that Spain wants it's thousands of tons of unsold fruit back. Where was it? is there some large pile like the butter and tomato mountain. Do you have any links?


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## Claudine M.

Pesky Wesky said:


> Huge food poisoning scam perpetrated by Brits
> https://majorcadailybulletin.com/ne...-eliciting-false-holiday-sickness-claims.html


Sheesh! How embarassing.


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## Claudine M.

*uh, but*

I suppose it is possible to reclaim something as quickly biodegradable as fresh fruit ....
but ... difficult.
Especially if its large quantities.


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## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> Thank, good to know it is real as the Viva story was a bit confusing. I was puzzled by the bit that Spain wants it's thousands of tons of unsold fruit back. Where was it? is there some large pile like the butter and tomato mountain. Do you have any links?


Seems that this has been going since 2014. It's the Russians retaliating to the EU sanctions brought on by the war in Ukrania...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/ukraine-europe-news

https://www.invertia.com/es/-/econo...mpliar-los-cupos-del-reglamento-del-veto-ruso

EU pledges 70m euros to support fruit farmers hit by Russia ban - FoodBev Media


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spanish success
> 
> 
> Marca España | Spanish firms: the keys to their success


Oh dear... I'm afraid this is just propaganda. The Panama Canal expansion was pretty disastrous, there was a great big crack in the concrete which meant they had to keep delaying the opening, and costs have gone through the ceiling. They are still arguing over who pays.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/01/09/inenglish/1483955596_909778.html

The railway in Saudi Arabia hasn't gone smoothly either. It was supposed to be open by the end of last year but is nowhere near fnished. Each side is blaming the other.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/06/20/inenglish/1497947325_444505.html


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Oh dear... I'm afraid this is just propaganda. The Panama Canal expansion was pretty disastrous, there was a great big crack in the concrete which meant they had to keep delaying the opening, and costs have gone through the ceiling. They are still arguing over who pays.
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/01/09/inenglish/1483955596_909778.html
> 
> The railway in Saudi Arabia hasn't gone smoothly either. It was supposed to be open by the end of last year. Each side is blaming the other.
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/02/04/inenglish/1423052376_326956.html?rel=mas


OOps!


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## Pesky Wesky

SPANISH children can use their mothers' surnames before their fathers' from the end of this month, whether or not both parents agree.

https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spa...their-mothers-surnames-first-from-end-of-june


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## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> SPANISH children can use their mothers' surnames before their fathers' from the end of this month, whether or not both parents agree.
> 
> https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spa...their-mothers-surnames-first-from-end-of-june


Perhaps some Spaniards will consider this to be PC gone mad.


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## rspltd

"Oh dear... I'm afraid this is just propaganda"

It seems to be a problem not only abroad!!

https://elpais.com/elpais/2014/05/13/inenglish/1399990193_399229.html?rel=mas


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## Pesky Wesky

rspltd said:


> "Oh dear... I'm afraid this is just propaganda"
> 
> It seems to be a problem not only abroad!!
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2014/05/13/inenglish/1399990193_399229.html?rel=mas


But this is from 2014. I haven't read it and there might be info that's still relevant today, but Spanish construction news needs to be up to date to really be relevant as it's an ever changing, extremely dynamic scenario


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> SPANISH children can use their mothers' surnames before their fathers' from the end of this month, whether or not both parents agree.
> 
> https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spa...their-mothers-surnames-first-from-end-of-june


Won't it appear on birth certs in the usual order though? 


Mind you, I know a few people who habitually use their mother's surname, if not officially.


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## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> Won't it appear on birth certs in the usual order though?
> 
> 
> Mind you, I know a few people who habitually use their mother's surname, if not officially.





> From June 30, however, the father's surname will not automatically become the child's first surname, and the parent or parents will be required to confirm the order of names in writing.


...


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## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> Perhaps some Spaniards will consider this to be PC gone mad.


Sounds a good idea. I suspect many with macho Husbands and strong MILs will prefer to not bother


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## Isobella

xabiachica said:


> Won't it appear on birth certs in the usual order though?
> 
> 
> Mind you, I know a few people who habitually use their mother's surname, if not officially.


I have my Mothers surname first. She wanted this because there were no male siblings to carry it on. Of course in the UK it is just another middle name.


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## thrax

I've never liked my real name (not Thrax, honest) and I blame my parents for their poor choice....


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## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> I have my Mothers surname first. She wanted this because there were no male siblings to carry it on. Of course in the UK it is just another middle name.


Uhhhm, middle name is one thing, surname is another


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## Isobella

Pesky Wesky said:


> Uhhhm, middle name is one thing, surname is another


It is a surname, Grandfathers surname and Mothers maiden name. As in Camilla Parker Bowles ha ha.


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## Lynn R

What a tragic and horribly sad case - a couple driven to take their own lives by depression caused by years of financial problems and unemployment, and their bodies found by their four young children. 

https://politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/09/25/actualidad/1506327068_108048.html


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## mrypg9

Isobella said:


> It is a surname, Grandfathers surname and Mothers maiden name. As in Camilla Parker Bowles ha ha.


Sandra has similar, mother's maiden name followed by father's name. I think it's quite usual in the West of Scotland.
Does sound posh...


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## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> What a tragic and horribly sad case - a couple driven to take their own lives by depression caused by years of financial problems and unemployment, and their bodies found by their four young children.
> 
> https://politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/09/25/actualidad/1506327068_108048.html


Poor kids. 

Strange coincidence as I followed a link on the Facebook page of a friend in Jaen. It reports of a high suicide rate in one particular triangle in Andalucia. In one case a whole family and pictures of their now ruined house. Says that almost everyone in that area has relatives who died this way. Some strange theories as to the cause. Lengthy read but interesting.

https://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/grandes-historias/20160729/143736438_0.html


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## Isobella

mrypg9 said:


> Sandra has similar, mother's maiden name followed by father's name. I think it's quite usual in the West of Scotland.
> Does sound posh...


A few kids in junior school thought it meant my Mother wasn't married when the register was called. Was considered a bit shameful around there


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Poor kids.
> 
> Strange coincidence as I followed a link on the Facebook page of a friend in Jaen. It reports of a high suicide rate in one particular triangle in Andalucia. In one case a whole family and pictures of their now ruined house. Says that almost everyone in that area has relatives who died this way. Some strange theories as to the cause. Lengthy read but interesting.
> 
> https://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/grandes-historias/20160729/143736438_0.html


Very strange. It refers to the monotonous landscape around Alcalá la Real, and when passing through the countryside around there, with nothing but olives trees to be seen for what seems like hours, I've often thought it would send me dotty if I lived in that area. 

The account of three members of the same family having hanged themselves is quite chilling.

I remember reading about an abnormally high number of suicides in Bridgend, South Wales, and I don't think that has been properly explained either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgend_suicide_incidents


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## Megsmum

Lynn R said:


> . It refers to the monotonous landscape around Alcalá la Real, and when passing through the countryside around there, with nothing but olives trees to be seen for what seems like hours, I've often thought it would send me dotty if I lived in that area]


We first looked around that area.... and I agree.... it's one of the reasons i love it here, we have a view of the sierra with its oak, two types, and the Chestnut woods with thier changing colours


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## Keral

Megsmum said:


> We first looked around that area.... and I agree.... it's one of the reasons i love it here, we have a view of the sierra with its oak, two types, and the Chestnut woods with thier changing colours


2 types of oaks!!!!! Wow, very lucky..

Seems the PM is meeting with the leader of the free world today. I wonder what the menu will be - spanish, mexican or American..


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## Isobella

Megsmum said:


> We first looked around that area.... and I agree.... it's one of the reasons i love it here, we have a view of the sierra with its oak, two types, and the Chestnut woods with thier changing colours


Don't mention oak trees. We have two over 150 years old and there seems to be more acorns than ever this year...on the verge of a breakdown can hear them dropping as I type raked 5 garden bags full yesterday and just the same today.


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## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> Very strange. It refers to the monotonous landscape around Alcalá la Real, and when passing through the countryside around there, with nothing but olives trees to be seen for what seems like hours, I've often thought it would send me dotty if I lived in that area.
> 
> The account of three members of the same family having hanged themselves is quite chilling.
> 
> I remember reading about an abnormally high number of suicides in Bridgend, South Wales, and I don't think that has been properly explained either.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgend_suicide_incidents


I wonder if it's genetic when large clusters in some areas. The marriage pool would have been very small in past times. Certainly some families seem to have one in every generation.


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## Megsmum

Isobella said:


> Don't mention oak trees. We have two over 150 years old and there seems to be more acorns than ever this year...on the verge of a breakdown can hear them dropping as I type raked 5 garden bags full yesterday and just the same today.


LOL. Yes we have the same issue here... we gather and give them to the local pig farms who feed the black footed pigs only acorns. Our dogs eat them too:frusty:


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## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> Very strange. It refers to the monotonous landscape around Alcalá la Real, and when passing through the countryside around there, with nothing but olives trees to be seen for what seems like hours, I've often thought it would send me dotty if I lived in that area.
> 
> The account of three members of the same family having hanged themselves is quite chilling.
> 
> I remember reading about an abnormally high number of suicides in Bridgend, South Wales, and I don't think that has been properly explained either.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgend_suicide_incidents


I don't find the landscape around Alcalá monotonous because of the mountains. We live in the village at the apex of the suicide triangle and, there have been a couple since we arrived (coincidence, honest.) Now if you want monotonous scenery, you need to try the Guadalquivir valley. We went to a village there on our search for property and it only needed tumbleweed bowling along the main road for it to be just like the wild West.


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## Pesky Wesky

100,000euro fine for man who felled a tree on his land without permission
https://es.yahoo.com/noticias/supremo-multa-hombre-talar-permiso-%C3%A1rbol-parcela-120423897.html


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## Ifn

Isobella said:


> Don't mention oak trees. We have two over 150 years old and there seems to be more acorns than ever this year...on the verge of a breakdown can hear them dropping as I type raked 5 garden bags full yesterday and just the same today.


There’s a song you can sing while raking . 
“Isn't it bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps raking around,
One who can't move,
Where are the squirrels 
There ought to be squirrels”


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## Pazcat

Pesky Wesky said:


> 100,000euro fine for man who felled a tree on his land without permission
> https://es.yahoo.com/noticias/supremo-multa-hombre-talar-permiso-%C3%A1rbol-parcela-120423897.html


It beggars belief, that is really, really excessive.
I do hope he can appeal that to the EU.

For some context, here are some things you can do in Spain much cheaper.

2190Euro and a sexual awareness course.
http://www.diariodemallorca.es/sucesos/2017/12/19/acepta-tres-anos-medio-carcel/1273117.html

20,000 grand and no prison time.
http://lacronicadelpajarito.com/reg...15-anos-pero-no-entrara-prision-al-pactar-con


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## baldilocks

Isobella said:


> Don't mention oak trees. We have two over 150 years old and there seems to be more acorns than ever this year...on the verge of a breakdown can hear them dropping as I type raked 5 garden bags full yesterday and just the same today.


Get apig and produce your own Jamón Iberico


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## The Skipper

Pesky Wesky said:


> 100,000euro fine for man who felled a tree on his land without permission
> https://es.yahoo.com/noticias/supremo-multa-hombre-talar-permiso-%C3%A1rbol-parcela-120423897.html


OMG! I hope nobody turns up to count the tree stumps on my land!


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## Pesky Wesky

Spain is now the second most visited country in the world after record breaking levels of tourism in 2017
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/12/inenglish/1515747137_539599.html


> Even though the secessionist bid shaved three tenths of a percentage point from tourism activity in 2017, it was still a record year for Spain: over 82 million international visitors, an 8.9% leap from 2016, and a 1.5% increase in average  spending per tourist, according to tourism ministry estimates released this week.


The challenge however is the same as ever



> “The challenge for the tourism industry now is to ensure sustainable growth with a view to the future,” said José Luis Zoreda, executive vice-president of Exceltur, at a news conference.


More views of tourism at its present level and the sustainabilty of the current low cost model (article 2016)
https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/07/08/inenglish/1467977461_007293.html?rel=mas



> The tourism industry is a powerful force in Spain’s economy, generating a wide array of jobs and substantial revenue, but the question is whether the country’s long-standing low-cost model can survive its own success. The efforts poured into attracting visitors has caused population density per square meter to exceed capacity in some areas.


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## Pesky Wesky

Three Spanish fire fighters who were volunteers in ****** helping refugees in the sea were arrested for human trafficking last year. They will go to trial in May 2018


> Their nightmare began at around 3am Thursday when Julio Latorre – one of the three firefighters – received an alert as he was helping a group of refugees who arrived on a vessel near the beach on the island of ******.
> 
> “They took our fingerprints and our mugshots, but at no point did they tell us that we were under arrest”
> 
> 
> A fellow volunteer aid worker said that another boat carrying a group of migrants was sinking in the middle of the Aegean Sea.
> “We then headed to the area by boat but couldn’t find [the vessel]. We searched for the boat for some time with two spotlights without any luck,” explains the 32-year-old Latorre, who added that they had “navigated pretty far away from the shore.”


https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/01/18/inenglish/1453131017_476612.html

https://www.elconfidencial.com/ulti...ados-en-mayo-por-trafico-de-personas_1437836/


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## Pesky Wesky

*Spain cracks King Ferdinand's 500-year-old secret code*



> A 500-year-old secret code used in letters between one of Spain's most famous monarchs and a military commander has been cracked.
> Ferdinand of Aragon's letters have tantalised historians for centuries.
> Constructed using more than 200 special characters, they were deciphered by the country's intelligence agency.


Spain cracks King Ferdinand's 500-year-old secret code - BBC News


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Spain's Infanta Elena is presented with an award at the ABC's bullfighting awards ceremony "for her passion and respect" towards bullfighting.
She said that supporting bullfighting was showing your love for Spain, this Spain where all have a place...


> La infanta Elena ha asegurado hoy que se siente "orgullosa" de su afición a los toros porque apoyar el espectáculo de la tauromaquia es también "amar, en una de sus muchas y riquísimas facetas, a esta España" en la que caben "todos en enriquecedora convivencia y asentada en el respeto mutuo".


https://es.yahoo.com/noticias/infanta-elena-amar-toros-amar-espa%C3%B1a-cabemos-212635998.html


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spain's Infanta Elena is presented with an award at the ABC's bullfighting awards ceremony "for her passion and respect" towards bullfighting.
> She said that supporting bullfighting was showing your love for Spain, this Spain where all have a place...


Words defy me!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Three Brits arrested over homophobic taunts on flight to Gran Canaria*

Baldi, words fail me on this one. Seriously, in this day and age!


https://www.thelocal.es/20180222/th...r-homophobic-taunts-on-flight-to-gran-canaria


----------



## Isobella

The grey brigade rebel.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...etired-Madrid-government-Mariano-Rajoy-Bilbao


----------



## baldilocks

Isobella said:


> The grey brigade rebel.
> 
> https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...etired-Madrid-government-Mariano-Rajoy-Bilbao


It's not about pensions _per se_ it is purely a political anti-PP government march organised by a few unions using the guise of the pensioners. The Spanish pensioner has one of the best pensions in the whole of Europe so how do they expect to get better?


----------



## Megsmum

baldilocks said:


> It's not about pensions _per se_ it is purely a political anti-PP government march organised by a few unions using the guise of the pensioners. The Spanish pensioner has one of the best pensions in the whole of Europe so how do they expect to get better?


That’s was my first thought.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Policeman dies in Bilbao after clashes with Spartak fans*

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...after-clashes-with-spartak-fans-idUKKCN1G62WU


Just why is it exactly that football is allowed to dominate a city, that "hooligans" are permited to terrorize whole areas of a town for hours on end? I was in that area just a few days ago - it's right next to the bus station. Thank goodness I wasn't arriving with a whole load of "football" fans!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Ryanair on rails? Spain’s high-speed AVE train tries a low-cost formula*

*The EVA, which will run between Madrid and Barcelona, will have 30% more seats and charge passengers additional fees for extra services*

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/09/inenglish/1518172563_182119.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Spanish 80-year-old snags Erasmus study grant, packs his bags for Italy*

*History student Miguel Castillo has a quadruple bypass but promises to try to party like the youngsters*

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/14/inenglish/1518599124_491029.html


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> It's not about pensions _per se_ it is purely a political anti-PP government march organised by a few unions using the guise of the pensioners. The Spanish pensioner has one of the best pensions in the whole of Europe so how do they expect to get better?


SOME Spanish pensions are generous - especially if you've worked in the public sector.

For millions of people though, the basic state pension (€655) can hardly be considered generous. I don't think it's unreasonable to want it to keep pace with the cost of living, which is what this is mainly about. They are getting an increase of 0.25% but the average inflation rate in 2017 was 1.96%. And electricity, which forms a disproprtionate part of household spending for the elderly, has risen by much more than that.

I'm glad the unions are getting their act together and protesting against this government, which has been systematically raiding the "pension pot" to pay for other things. Reserves have fallen by 90% since 2011.

Desde máximos de cierre de 2011 (66.815 millones), la "hucha" ha caído a los 8.095 millones de este diciembre de 2017, casi un 90%


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> *Policeman dies in Bilbao after clashes with Spartak fans*
> 
> https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...after-clashes-with-spartak-fans-idUKKCN1G62WU
> 
> 
> Just why is it exactly that football is allowed to dominate a city, that "hooligans" are permited to terrorize whole areas of a town for hours on end? I was in that area just a few days ago - it's right next to the bus station. Thank goodness I wasn't arriving with a whole load of "football" fans!


What measures would you suggest? A blanket ban on away supporters in internationals? (These were from Moscow.)

Just thinking back to a time when Reading fans were marched in a line from the station to the Oxford FC stadium by hundreds of mounted police ... The rest of us were advised to stay indoors.

Football is enormously important in Spain and gives pleasure to millions. This sort of event is tragic of course, but mercifully rare in this country.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> What measures would you suggest? A blanket ban on away supporters in internationals? (These were from Moscow.)
> 
> Just thinking back to a time when Reading fans were marched in a line from the station to the Oxford FC stadium by hundreds of mounted police ... The rest of us were advised to stay indoors.
> 
> Football is enormously important in Spain and gives pleasure to millions. This sort of event is tragic of course, but mercifully rare in this country.


No measures to suggest; it was just a wondering, a musing... Yes, football gives pleasure to millions. It's the majority wins idea, but personally I think the violence seen continually ON and off the field and the lip service paid to sportsmanship by the players in big clubs (and also in national teams) is worrying and a poor reflection on sport in today's society.
I do think clubs should pay a bigger part in controlling and disciplining people who go to see their matches, not just fines which don't hurt the big clubs at all and are already factored in to their budget. In this case with Athletic/ Spartak it's a bit different because the policeman didn't die as a direct result of a fan's action. The fact that he'd been on duty for 13 hours probably had something to do with his death from a heart attack.


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> For millions of people though, the basic state pension (€655) can hardly be considered generous.


My OAP from April after 44 years of contributing is £159.05 p.w. (£8270 p.a.) which, if I was living in the UK with the higher cost of living, is worse than the Spanish who get 14 payments of €655 = €9170 p.a. and that is only the minimum pension, which can be up to €3751 (€52.514 p.a.). The Spanish OAP is the second highest in Europe.


----------



## cermignano

These Russian fans ran riot in another European city a few years ago. Hammers abounded. Their 'Culture' minister praised them...?


----------



## Isobella

baldilocks said:


> My OAP from April after 44 years of contributing is £159.05 p.w. (£8270 p.a.) which, if I was living in the UK with the higher cost of living, is worse than the Spanish who get 14 payments of €655 = €9170 p.a. and that is only the minimum pension, which can be up to €3751 (€52.514 p.a.). The Spanish OAP is the second highest in Europe.


Is the €655 the absolute minimum? The UK pension is low but there are top ups. I don"t know the figures but pensioners renting get rebates plus they don't pay much council tax.


----------



## Alcalaina

Isobella said:


> Is the €655 the absolute minimum? The UK pension is low but there are top ups. I don"t know the figures but pensioners renting get rebates plus they don't pay much council tax.


Officially, but if you haven't made enough contributions it can be less. This is a problem in places like Andalucia where a lot of the work is seasonal. Also for women who have been caring for children and elderly relatives most of their lives. I know people living on less than €400 and they have to go cap in hand to the Ayuntamiento for help with bills - it's not a right.


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> My OAP from April after 44 years of contributing is £159.05 p.w. (£8270 p.a.) which, if I was living in the UK with the higher cost of living, is worse than the Spanish who get 14 payments of €655 = €9170 p.a. and that is only the minimum pension, which can be up to €3751 (€52.514 p.a.). The Spanish OAP is the second highest in Europe.


Hopefully if you lived in the UK you'd be out on the streets protesting then! 

If they are really the second highest in Europe, why should they not fight to stay that way? And how much are the "average figures" inflated by the ridiculously high pensions accumulated by politicians - a few years in office and a pension for life of over €100,000!

LA SEXTA TV | España es uno de los tres países desarrollados que paga pensiones vitalicias a expresidentes y exministros


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Not really new news, but an initiative that is not very well known.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...celona-spain-plan-give-streets-back-residents


> In the latest attempt from a big city to move away from car hegemony, Barcelona has ambitious plans. Currently faced with excessive pollution and noise levels, the city has come up with a new mobility plan to reduce traffic by 21%. And it comes with something extra: freeing up nearly 60% of streets currently used by cars to turn them into so-called “citizen spaces”. The plan is based around the idea of _superilles_ (superblocks) – mini neighbourhoods around which traffic will flow, and in which spaces will be repurposed to “fill our city with life”, as its tagline says.


And 5 min video on same subject


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This subject has come up in other threads - AirB&B and the like pushing out residents and pushing up prices. This article is specific to Madrid, but it's happening in towns all over Spain, and the world.



> Around one in five homes in Madrid’s tourist Sol neighborhood are listed on Airbnb, according to research from EL PAÍS using data from the platform Inside Airbnb, Madrid Town Hall and registry office. Across the center, the figure is close to one in 10 homes. These figures indicate the scale of a phenomena that is rapidly changing the heart of Madrid, as it has already done to other cities. But the problem is not only having an effect on locals in the city center. Those who have decided to leave the center – either because of the prices or because the neighborhoods have become hostile – are moving to areas outside the center, which has pushed up the rent in these suburbs and accelerated the spectacular spike in the rental market, due, among other factors to the lack of offer and economic recovery.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/2...?id_externo_nwl=newsletter_inenglish20180302m


----------



## Pazcat

Sunday Trading Hours Curbed In Valencia Region - Javea Connect

This is a blow, my questions would be if it will affect garden centres and restaurants?

I suspect garden centres it will.


----------



## Ifn

Pesky Wesky said:


> This subject has come up in other threads - AirB&B and the like pushing out residents and pushing up prices. This article is specific to Madrid, but it's happening in towns all over Spain, and the world.
> 
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/2...?id_externo_nwl=newsletter_inenglish20180302m


I’m living in the Sol area in Madrid. My apartment was an Airbnb but the owner decided it was too much hassle. So, lucky me. The apartment below me was bought by someone who split the apartment in two. So the identical apartment as mine is now 2 Airbnb’s. Everywhere I walk, I see people and their luggage. 
But how can I really hate Airbnb when I use them all the time and love living in a home rather then a hotel room? I do wish Airbnb would be more proactive about this problem. Venice is one sad place and so is Barcelona. I guess it will be up to the City governments to control this. And yet, with such high unemployment in Spain and Italy, I know this is a way to make a living for many people. 
Bottom line: I don’t know


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Ifn said:


> I’m living in the Sol area in Madrid. My apartment was an Airbnb but the owner decided it was too much hassle. So, lucky me. The apartment below me was bought by someone who split the apartment in two. So the identical apartment as mine is now 2 Airbnb’s. Everywhere I walk, I see people and their luggage.
> But how can I really hate Airbnb when I use them all the time and love living in a home rather then a hotel room? I do wish Airbnb would be more proactive about this problem. Venice is one sad place and so is Barcelona. I guess it will be up to the City governments to control this. And yet, with such high unemployment in Spain and Italy, I know this is a way to make a living for many people.
> Bottom line: I don’t know


I used to live in Calle de La Bolsa (go up Carretas to Jacinto Benavente and turn right) so I know what living in Sol is like! It was great for a while, a variety of bars and restaurants, cinema, theatre... but I would hate to live there now.
I don't know what the answer is with Airbnb either, but like Uber and Amazon Prime it's here to stay and milk bottles and faxes are dead. You can't put the brakes on some changes


----------



## baldilocks

Ifn said:


> I’m living in the Sol area in Madrid. My apartment was an Airbnb but the owner decided it was too much hassle. So, lucky me. The apartment below me was bought by someone who split the apartment in two. So the identical apartment as mine is now 2 Airbnb’s. Everywhere I walk, I see people and their luggage.
> But how can I really hate Airbnb when I use them all the time and love living in a home rather then a hotel room? I do wish Airbnb would be more proactive about this problem. Venice is one sad place and so is Barcelona. I guess it will be up to the City governments to control this. And yet, with such high unemployment in Spain and Italy, I know this is a way to make a living for many people.
> Bottom line: I don’t know


Actually *I *like the occasional hotel stay, if it is a decent hotel.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*A BAR in Spain has caused controversy with its no ‘unruly children’ rule.*


> The sign read “if the child cries, screams or makes noises that annoy other customers, the parents will have to take them outside until they stop doing so,” re-igniting the debate as to whether bars and restaurants should be allowed to ban children.


https://www.euroweeklynews.com/news...social-media-backlash-over-unruly-kids-policy
Here's the same story in Spanish if you want to practise your language skills
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/06/mamas_papas/1520326901_306305.html


----------



## Pazcat

More from the Valencian regional government.

An end to animal killing stations perhaps?
Sounds good and then you get to the part where local councils will be allowed to charge a dog tax, potentially reasonable but I wouldn't trust my council to tax anything at a 'potentially reasonable' rate.

That said if it makes the councils responsible for actually doing something about the feral cat problem then it could be a good thing.

Los ayuntamientos valencianos podrán cobrar por tener un perro y limitar el número de mascotas en casa


----------



## cermignano

Pesky, there is a trend to go back to milk bottles in UK. People are calling for it due to big campaign to get rid of non-reusable plastics. A campaign by schoolchildren here in Scotland has led to schools getting rid of plastic straws and to use paper ones.This has led to Wetherspoons, Cosca, etc to come in and say they are stopping too. Also Iceland is to stop using those plastic trays that food is packed onto covered in clingfilm. So as it gathers momentum also campaign for refundable glass returns. It really has taken hold due to vigorous campaigning on telly as well as in schools. Also the sights of all the marine life swallowing plastic. Back to the future methinks.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> *A BAR in Spain has caused controversy with its no ‘unruly children’ rule.*
> 
> https://www.euroweeklynews.com/news...social-media-backlash-over-unruly-kids-policy
> Here's the same story in Spanish if you want to practise your language skills
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/06/mamas_papas/1520326901_306305.html


Having been the target of some ice-cream throwing teenager back in UK, I'm all in favour of parents being responsible for their children and also being responsible for bringing them up properly. I am disappointed that the bar backed down.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

cermignano said:


> Pesky, there is a trend to go back to milk bottles in UK. People are calling for it due to big campaign to get rid of non-reusable plastics. A campaign by schoolchildren here in Scotland has led to schools getting rid of plastic straws and to use paper ones.This has led to Wetherspoons, Cosca, etc to come in and say they are stopping too. Also Iceland is to stop using those plastic trays that food is packed onto covered in clingfilm. So as it gathers momentum also campaign for refundable glass returns. It really has taken hold due to vigorous campaigning on telly as well as in schools. Also the sights of all the marine life swallowing plastic. Back to the future methinks.


Great! I'm all for it myself. I didn't know that the anti plastic campaign had gained so much ground in the UK. I particularly like the news that clingfilm and polystyrene are on their way out. Just a shame that it's taken so long, don't you think?
I, and I think many people think the amount of plastic used unnecessarily in every day life is completely senseless, but once the trend has taken over it's very difficult to fight against it. I remember a few years ago here in Spain several shop keepers saying that they hadn't wanted to use plastic bags, but paper ones had become too expensive. It seems to me that governments should have been a bit more savvy and encouraged the manufacture of non disposable razors and cardboard egg boxes for example a bit more


----------



## Isobella

Banning plastic bags is one of the best things to happen. Last year Kenya banned them completely with severe fines for non compliance. I have relatives there and a positive spin off is that the old crafts of basket making have made a comeback, let's hope it lasts.


----------



## Overandout

In January in Spain there was a little sung-about change in the law when Spain finally adopted the EU directive to prohibit the free issue of plastic bags in shops.

It is now illegal for a shop to give you a plastic bag without charging you for it.... not that you'd notice. In my area at least, the big supermarkets had been charging for them for years and the small shops continue to give them away even though it is illegal.

I was reprimanded quite strongly in a supermarket recently when I was told that I should be using a plastic glove to handle the fresh produce. When I responded that there was already enough waste plastic around and the use of the glove did nothing, other people in the shop decided to "gang up" against me and tell me loudly that it was a hygiene issue and that I was "disgusting" for not using the glove.... my answer back that people should be washing the produce at home before consuming it wasn't valid apparently!

As usual, Spain is decades behind in this kind of mindset change.


----------



## xabiaxica

The body of Gabriel Cruz, the 8 year old boy who went missing two weeks ago in Almería, has been found in the boot of his father's girlfriend's car 

DEP Pescaito

Detenida la novia del padre de Gabriel Cruz cuando transportaba el cadáver del niño en el maletero de su coche | Andalucía


----------



## Lynn R

xabiachica said:


> The body of Gabriel Cruz, the 8 year old boy who went missing two weeks ago in Almería, has been found in the boot of his father's girlfriend's car
> 
> DEP Pescaito
> 
> Detenida la novia del padre de Gabriel Cruz cuando transportaba el cadáver del niño en el maletero de su coche | Andalucía


Tragic. I've been following the story in the press, and feared he wouldn't be found alive, but it's very sad to have his death confirmed. Seems to have been good work by the police who considered her a suspect and had her under surveillance, and photographed her earlier today removing his body from its hiding place and putting it in the boot of her car, before arresting her.

Detienen a la pareja del padre de Gabriel cuando trasladaba el cadáver del niño en el maletero | Diario Sur


----------



## Overandout

xabiachica said:


> The body of Gabriel Cruz, the 8 year old boy who went missing two weeks ago in Almería, has been found in the boot of his father's girlfriend's car
> 
> DEP Pescaito
> 
> Detenida la novia del padre de Gabriel Cruz cuando transportaba el cadáver del niño en el maletero de su coche | Andalucía


Horrible, but sadly not unexpected.

DEP Pescaito.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Very sad news. I just wonder why...Why did this woman think that killing this little boy was going to make her life better?


----------



## jimenato

Spain should qualify for the Rugby Union world cup in 2019.

They slaughtered Germany over the weekend which puts them one win - against Belgium next Sunday - from qualifying.



> Lions roar towards finals
> The Spanish can clinch their ticket to Japan with success in their next outing, against Belgium next Saturday. The Spanish 'Lions', who made their World Cup debut in 1999 in Wales, are lying second in their qualifying group on 26 points.
> 
> Brussels key to success
> Romania, on 29 points, top the table but have completed all their games, including a defeat to Spain last month, meaning success in Brussels would lift the Lions to the top of the table. With Spain'a King Felipe VI watching, the Spanish scored a dozen tries to Germany's one.


Following England's dire performance in the current 6 nations we'll have to watch out for them.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Spain really does have it's sporting force doesn't it? They are strong in football, tennis, basketball, woman's hockey, rugby.....


----------



## jimenato

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spain really does have it's sporting force doesn't it? They are strong in football, tennis, basketball, woman's hockey, rugby.....


Just looked at the table

If Spain win next week they are through to the world cup in Japan. They have to beat Belgium who are bottom of their qualifying table.

If they lose they will have to play Portugal in a playoff (I think, it's a bit complicated).

Must add that if Spain qualify for the world cup they will almost certainly lose every match quite badly - Rugby is like that, a strong team will tend to obliterate a weaker team.

They are currently 19th in the world rankings (which in Rugby are pretty accurate) - no-one outside the top 10 has any chance of winning.

Incidentally Spain women (womens Rugby is a superb game) are 10th in the world.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Very sad news. I just wonder why...Why did this woman think that killing this little boy was going to make her life better?


We don't know and we should not attempt to guess until we know more about her mental state. I've been horrified by the amount of racist abuse aimed at her on FB, calls to bring back the death penalty etc. Good to see that the child's natural mother has asked for them to tone it down.

La madre de Gabriel pide que no se hable de la detenida por la muerte de su hijo "porque no se lo merece" - RTVE.es


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> We don't know and we should not attempt to guess until we know more about her mental state. I've been horrified by the amount of racist abuse aimed at her on FB, calls to bring back the death penalty etc. Good to see that the child's natural mother has asked for them to tone it down.
> 
> La madre de Gabriel pide que no se hable de la detenida por la muerte de su hijo "porque no se lo merece" - RTVE.es


Well, what she has asked, according to the reports is don't talk about her because she doesn't deserve it, to be talked about that is.The attention should be on the child that has died. The mother is sure that the father had nothing to do with it and is suffering as much if not more than her as the person that he loves has killed his child. The mother has also asked people to concentrate more on the messages of love and support that have flooded in.
God what a mess.
Meanwhile in Pozuelo, Madrid a man has been killed in a shooting outside a British Council school (probably Colombian drug related) and a few days ago there was an attempted kidnapping of a boy outside his school in Las Rozas Madrid. 
Crazy times.


----------



## baldilocks

Apparently she is now to be investigated about teh death of another child in her care:

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/news...1730&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ewn-alerts


----------



## Pesky Wesky

> *Pesky Wesky*; a few days ago there was an attempted kidnapping of a boy outside his school in Las Rozas Madrid.
> Crazy times.


And another attempted child kidnapping in Pinto, Madrid yesterday. Rumors abound of organ trafficking, but to me it seems strange to try something so risky in front of a crowded school...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Another poke in the eye for the gagging law (ley mordaza)


> The European Court of Human Rights on Tuesday ruled that Spanish courts had wrongfully fined and sentenced two people to prison terms for publicly burning a picture of the country's ex-monarch and his spouse, a penalty that it said was a disproportionate interference into the defendants' freedom of expression


https://www.efe.com/efe/english/por...2-for-burning-image-of-kings/50000260-3551158


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> Another poke in the eye for the gagging law (ley mordaza)
> 
> 
> https://www.efe.com/efe/english/por...2-for-burning-image-of-kings/50000260-3551158


9,000€ compensation for their court costs?

What about compensation for their 10 years with an illegally imposed criminal record?

I'm happy for these guys, but at the same time I am saddened by the fact that it will make no difference to the Spanish government's views, laws or impositions.

The only thing to be glad about with all this is that the European Court hasn't sanctioned Spain for its institutional abuse of human rights, because that would just be another fine that us taxpayers have to pay...


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Another poke in the eye for the gagging law (ley mordaza)
> 
> 
> https://www.efe.com/efe/english/por...2-for-burning-image-of-kings/50000260-3551158


There was a lovely cartoon on FB of la Reina Sofía burning her wedding photos ...


----------



## jimenato

jimenato said:


> Just looked at the table
> 
> If Spain win next week they are through to the world cup in Japan. They have to beat Belgium who are bottom of their qualifying table.
> 
> If they lose they will have to play Portugal in a playoff (I think, it's a bit complicated).
> 
> Must add that if Spain qualify for the world cup they will almost certainly lose every match quite badly - Rugby is like that, a strong team will tend to obliterate a weaker team.
> 
> They are currently 19th in the world rankings (which in Rugby are pretty accurate) - no-one outside the top 10 has any chance of winning.
> 
> Incidentally Spain women (womens Rugby is a superb game) are 10th in the world.


Spain lost their match against Belgium in controversial circumstances.

The Spanish players say that the ref didn't allow them to play and continually penalised them. 

Thus Romania qualify automatically. The ref was Romanian.

The Spanish players were a bit hacked off with this and there were some most un-rugby-like scenes afterwards.

The ref's performance will be reviewed (as always in a rugby international) but the result will certainly stand.
Romania qualified for the 2019 Rugby World Cup after Spain suffered a shock 18-10 loss to Belgium, with ugly scenes marring the end of Sunday's match.



> Spain had looked set to qualify for the first time since 1999, but their defeat in Brussels handed Romania the automatic European qualifying spot.
> 
> Spanish players confronted referee Vlad Iordachescu, a Romanian, at the final whistle in their loss to Belgium.
> 
> "We weren't allowed to play," said Spain coach Santiago Santos.
> 
> "The referee kept stopping the game at every moment. Our game was stopped continuously, the Belgians benefited from many more decisions.


----------



## jimenato

If anyone wants to watch the match it's here...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Amazon strike


> At 10pm on Tuesday night, workers at the Amazon logistics center in the Madrid municipality of San Fernando de Henares began a 48-hour strike. It’s the first stoppage that the US e-commerce giant has suffered in Spain since it began operating in the country.





> “Currently they pay us 100% of our salary the first time we take leave, but that would be changed to 75%,” she explains. “And you have to take into account that there are a lot of injuries and leaves taken given the type of work.” They would also lose pay for working night shifts, around 20% of what they currently receive, as well as for working on weekends or national holidays – 50% of what they currently get for the first two days, and 75% from the third day onward.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/21/inenglish/1521632646_173135.html


----------



## Isobella

Malaga taxis have never been my favourite people but this exonerates them a bit. Click on video at the end. One of them found a cruise passenger who has Alzheimers.

Un grupo de taxistas ayuda a un turista a encontrar a su esposa con alzheimer


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Skywalk in Gibraltar opens
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/26/inenglish/1522054757_885879.html

The Force is Strong with Gibraltar’s Skywalk - The Gibraltar Magazine


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Sad.


> Scientists have discovered 29 kilos of plastic in the stomach of a sperm whale, which washed up on the southern coast of Spain in February.


https://www.sciencealert.com/whale-found-dead-spain-29-kilos-plastic-stomach


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sad.
> 
> https://www.sciencealert.com/whale-found-dead-spain-29-kilos-plastic-stomach


I wish there was a button for "makes me want to cry".


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> I wish there was a button for "makes me want to cry".


You can always use:
:sad::sad::sad:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> Banksy in Spain?
> Spanish town launches international campaign to lure Banksy to graffiti Franco's birthplace


And here it is - the first Banksy in Spain, although unconfirmed as yet
https://elpais.com/cultura/2018/04/17/actualidad/1523984395_367947.html


----------



## amespana

Google ‘estepona’ wall Art,it has really livened up old apartment blocks.It has created a new tourist trail and brought increased trade to local cafes and restaurants.It has to be said in my opinion it is of a very high standard.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

amespana said:


> Google ‘estepona’ wall Art,it has really livened up old apartment blocks.It has created a new tourist trail and brought increased trade to local cafes and restaurants.It has to be said in my opinion it is of a very high standard.


Wow! . "Dia de la pesca" is Amazing!


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> And here it is - the first Banksy in Spain, although unconfirmed as yet
> https://elpais.com/cultura/2018/04/17/actualidad/1523984395_367947.html


Whether it is his or not, it hits the mark. Bet it will make a few falangist hackles rise ...


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> Whether it is his or not, it hits the mark. *Bet it will make a few falangist hackles rise ...*


Good. Sooner we get rid of them and their ilk, the better.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Hope this really is put into action


> BRITISH stag and hen parties are to be fined up to €750 for roaming the streets of Marbella drunk, semi-naked or wielding inflatable sex toys.


https://www.euroweeklynews.com/news...its-on-costa-del-sol-to-be-slapped-with-fines


----------



## Pesky Wesky

BIG news. The end of ETA
Eta: Basque group disbands but leaves deep wounds for Spain - BBC News


----------



## Pesky Wesky

If you've seen protests largely populated by women recently it could because of this disturbing court case:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-men-cleared-of-teenagers-gang-rape-pamplona


> Protests are being held across Spain after five men accused of the gang rape of a teenager during the running of the bulls festival in Pamplona were found guilty of the lesser offence of sexual abuse.





> The men were found guilty of the “continuous sexual abuse” of the woman in the lobby of a building in the early hours of 7 July 2016, but not of rape.
> 
> Under Spanish law, the lesser offence of sexual abuse differs from rape in that it does not involve violence or intimidation. One of the judges argued that the men should have been cleared of all charges except the phone theft.
> The men, who called themselves _la manada _or “the wolf pack” in their WhatsApp group, had offered to walk the woman to her car but instead took her into the hall of a building, attacked her and filmed the assault on their phones.





> Their defence lawyers claimed the woman had consented and had let one of the men kiss her. They also argued that 96 seconds of video footage from the men’s phones – showing the woman immobile and with her eyes shut during the attack – was proof of consent.
> The prosecution, however, said the victim had been too terrified to move.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/05/03/inenglish/1525332569_996610.html


> “The light sentencing of ‘the wolf pack’ attackers in Spain diminishes the severity of the violation and undermines clear obligations to uphold the rights of women. Justice must be known by women,” she said.


18 years old.


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> If you've seen protests largely populated by women recently it could because of this disturbing court case:
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-men-cleared-of-teenagers-gang-rape-pamplonahttps://elpais.com/elpais/2018/05/03/inenglish/1525332569_996610.html
> 18 years old.


It's a shocking case - and all the more so because one of the attackers is a Guardia Civil officer.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> It's a shocking case - and all the more so because one of the attackers is a Guardia Civil officer.


"La casta" looking after its own??

This one isn't going to melt away quietly. As PW said, the whole country is up in arms and there has been international condemnation as well.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> "La casta" looking after its own??
> 
> This one isn't going to melt away quietly. As PW said, the whole country is up in arms and there has been international condemnation as well.


Heard on the news that a forum (forocoches, which originally was about cars, but now seems to be where many men in the majority debate issues) tracked down the victim and published her identity. Why would you want to do that?
The forum has blocked 200 users as a result of the online discussions of the case


----------



## Lynn R

A sad story about the rapidly growing number of elderly people living alone in Málaga - and 45 of them were abandoned in hospitals just last year. The image of Spain being a country where the elderly are cared for by family members seems to be increasingly misleading. I see an awful lot of older people in my town being helped by carers from Social Services, but there may be many more not getting the help they need.

Los ancianos solos acaparan el trabajo de las emergencias sociales en Málaga | Diario Sur


----------



## Patico

On going funding crisis for this much needed organisation. 

Four soup kitchens suffer funding crisis . surinenglish.com


----------



## baldilocks

Patico said:


> On going funding crisis for this much needed organisation.
> 
> Four soup kitchens suffer funding crisis . surinenglish.com


Our facilities for the aged and infirm are operated by the Ayuntamiento via the Residencia and we are now getting a new day centre, utilising the old former infants and junior school which is currently being refurbished and this will also accommodate the kindergarten which, at present operates below the health centre, a building which also has a social centre and theatre on the top floor.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> A sad story about the rapidly growing number of elderly people living alone in Málaga - and 45 of them were abandoned in hospitals just last year. The image of Spain being a country where the elderly are cared for by family members seems to be increasingly misleading. I see an awful lot of older people in my town being helped by carers from Social Services, but there may be many more not getting the help they need.
> 
> Los ancianos solos acaparan el trabajo de las emergencias sociales en Málaga | Diario Sur


I feel a kind of inevitability about these situations. As our society is constructed today, this is the direction we are headed. 
I hope to go into sheltered housing when the time comes although this is still a pretty new concept in Spain. I have only one daughter and my husband doesn't look after his health. All other family members on my side are older and living in England so I fully expect to be on my own for some years. I just hope I can hang on to my health!:fingerscrossed:


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> I feel a kind of inevitability about these situations. As our society is constructed today, this is the direction we are headed.
> I hope to go into sheltered housing when the time comes although this is still a pretty new concept in Spain. I have only one daughter and my husband doesn't look after his health. All other family members on my side are older and living in England so I fully expect to be on my own for some years. I just hope I can hang on to my health!:fingerscrossed:


It's a concern for me too. I don't have children, my husband is a few years older than me, although so far it is me who has had health problems, not him! 

Perhaps the demographic trends in Spain will lead to more sheltered housing projects being set up, I hope so. The numbers are pretty scary, that article said that the number of over 65s in Málaga province has increased by over 30% in the past decade.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> It's a concern for me too. I don't have children, my husband is a few years older than me, although so far it is me who has had health problems, not him!
> 
> Perhaps the demographic trends in Spain will lead to more sheltered housing projects being set up, I hope so. The numbers are pretty scary, that article said that the number of over 65s in Málaga province has increased by over 30% in the past decade.


----------



## Megsmum

Maybe we could set up an Expat.forum care home


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> I feel a kind of inevitability about these situations. As our society is constructed today, this is the direction we are headed.
> I hope to go into sheltered housing when the time comes although this is still a pretty new concept in Spain. I have only one daughter and my husband doesn't look after his health. All other family members on my side are older and living in England so I fully expect to be on my own for some years. I just hope I can hang on to my health!:fingerscrossed:


The situation is less of a problem in Spanish villages because many still have the old ethic of looking after each other - at least that is the way it works here. We have loads of 70+, 80+ and 90+ all living quite happily in their own homes and if there are family members living nearby they will support or, if they are on their own, neighbours fulfil the role.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Article about people from the UK moving back post Brexit vote. The article also talks about people registering in town halls.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/07/inenglish/1520417174_976942.html?rel=mas


> As Brexit starts to bite, more and more Brits are selling up and leaving Spain
> 
> The number of British people officially living in the country has dropped from 397,892 to 240,785 in the past five years





> The drop in the official number of Brits has been particularly severe in the region of Valencia, which was the first massive residential destination for British people in Spain. In the past five years, the number has nearly halved: from 145,652 to 75,054. Andalusia has also lost many British people but not as many, and is now the Spanish region with the largest British community.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Article about people from the UK moving back post Brexit vote. The article also talks about people registering in town halls.
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/07/inenglish/1520417174_976942.html?rel=mas


However, in this village, we have seen our numbers increase from four British households to 12 which would seem to buck the published trend.


----------



## Taker3075

I suppose the population of expats will never increase again because after Brexit for those wanting to move to Spain will probably lose the S1 and their pensions will be frozen.


----------



## jimenato

jimenato said:


> Spain lost their match against Belgium in controversial circumstances.
> 
> The Spanish players say that the ref didn't allow them to play and continually penalised them.
> 
> Thus Romania qualify automatically. The ref was Romanian.
> 
> The Spanish players were a bit hacked off with this and there were some most un-rugby-like scenes afterwards.
> 
> The ref's performance will be reviewed (as always in a rugby international) but the result will certainly stand.


So the match has been reviewed and the authorities ducked the refereeing issue. 

They simply disqualified all three teams - Spain, Belgium and Romania from the world cup on an unrelated matter - player eligibility. 

Apparently all three teams had fielded multiple ineligible players.

Russia qualifies instead.

Not very impressive really.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Terrible news from Tui. An illegal store of fireworks exploded killing I think 4 people and destroying several buildings. From the air it looks like the area has been bombed, no exaggeration.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6k6cmy


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Also tragic news from Madrid. A building that was being done up semi collapsed some days ago. They have just found the second body in the rubble. There is speculation that they were storing too much material on the 7th floor and that this caused the collapse
https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/firefighters-search-for-workers-after-partial-building-collapse-in-spain/50000260-3624718

The only other news from Madrid is that Pesky Wesky stumbled in the street and has a broken metatarsal and her leg in plaster


----------



## Overandout

Oh dear. Get well soon PW.


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> Also tragic news from Madrid. A building that was being done up semi collapsed some days ago. They have just found the second body in the rubble. There is speculation that they were storing too much material on the 7th floor and that this caused the collapse
> https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/firefighters-search-for-workers-after-partial-building-collapse-in-spain/50000260-3624718
> 
> The only other news from Madrid is that Pesky Wesky stumbled in the street and has a broken metatarsal and her leg in plaster


I read about the collapse just after it happened and it said that two workers were missing. Very sad to hear that both their bodies have now been found.

Sorry to hear about your accident - can you put a claim in? I have noticed a lot of damaged and uneven pavements in recent years in Madrid.


----------



## baldilocks

Get well soon


----------



## Megsmum

Ouch ouch ouch


Get well soon XXX


----------



## jimenato

Oh Dear!

Hope you mend quickly.


----------



## kaipa

Extraordinary news today. Huge jail sentences for ex PP cronies on corruption charges. 51 years for one!!. Also PP pretty much labelled as complicit in state corruption. Rajoy surely has to resign Now? Even his testimony must be under scrutiny. The we have the jail sentence against the Spanish rapper for.....slander against the crown!!. What? It is worse than China!! Like I say extraordinary news


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Oh! Thank you for good wishes all of you. No idea how long it will take!


----------



## cermignano

Get well soon.


----------



## cermignano

Yes the slander charge is unbelievable!! I read that the firework explosion was in a residential flat. Is this not so?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

cermignano said:


> Yes the slander charge is unbelievable!! I read that the firework explosion was in a residential flat. Is this not so?


I thought that at first, but now it seems that it was in a store or warehouse


----------



## kaipa

So today looks like being a historic moment. The removal of PP by a no confidence vote and Sanchez as the acting PM. Incredible!!!. What next? I wonder if expat have any clue what is happening in Spain.? Very turbulent times ahead


----------



## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> So today looks like being a historic moment. The removal of PP by a no confidence vote and Sanchez as the acting PM. Incredible!!!. What next? I wonder if expat have any clue what is happening in Spain.? Very turbulent times ahead


I don't think much of Spanish politics hits the UK media, but there's a thread in La Tasca


----------



## Lynn R

kaipa said:


> So today looks like being a historic moment. The removal of PP by a no confidence vote and Sanchez as the acting PM. Incredible!!!. What next? I wonder if expat have any clue what is happening in Spain.? Very turbulent times ahead


I wonder just how turbulent times may be, when you think that Spain functioned without a Government at all for many months, not so long ago, and life went on completely normally for all of us, whether Spanish or foreign residents, as far as I know. As Sanchez has already said that he will continue with the budget drawn up by Rajoy's Government if and when he takes control, I cannot see any immediate changes in the wind and certainly not before new elections are held.


----------



## kaipa

I personally feel if you live in a country it should be incumbent on you to be aware of the culture and politics of that country as a matter of courtesy. How many Brits go on about Immigrants not integrating in the UK but do the same themselves in Spain


----------



## Overandout

kaipa said:


> I personally feel if you live in a country it should be incumbent on you to be aware of the culture and politics of that country as a matter of courtesy. How many Brits go on about Immigrants not integrating in the UK but do the same themselves in Spain


I used to think like that, but after living in Thailand and realising that I was never going to be able to integrate, understand the culture, language , politics etc., I can assure you that sometimes it is simply not within the grasp of some people.

There are of course Europeans who do integrate in Thailand, but they are very few compared to those who integrate in other western countries. 

Just because some manage it and reap the benefits, doesn't mean to say that all others should do it for some moral obligation.


----------



## Overandout

Lynn R said:


> I wonder just how turbulent times may be, when you think that Spain functioned without a Government at all for many months, not so long ago, and life went on completely normally for all of us, whether Spanish or foreign residents, as far as I know. As Sanchez has already said that he will continue with the budget drawn up by Rajoy's Government if and when he takes control, I cannot see any immediate changes in the wind and certainly not before new elections are held.


There is a lot of hope being pinned on Sanchez from the left... I get the feeling that he will leave them disappointed.


----------



## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> So today looks like being a historic moment. The removal of PP by a no confidence vote and Sanchez as the acting PM. Incredible!!!. What next? I wonder if expat have any clue what is happening in Spain.? Very turbulent times ahead





kaipa said:


> I personally feel if you live in a country it should be incumbent on you to be aware of the culture and politics of that country as a matter of courtesy. How many Brits go on about Immigrants not integrating in the UK but do the same themselves in Spain


BIG assumption. Especially as in the UK, up until recently, not many home grown Brits engaged in the political system

2015	66.1%	
2010	65.1%
2005	61.4%	
2001	59.4%

In Spain last election voter turn out was 66.6%. Lowest since the transition to democracy in 1975, according to a google search 


In the USA the turn out was 58%

I am not au fait with the electoral system here or in the USA. Understanding UK politics and getting a handle on who represents what is difficult enough when in ones own language, dealing with the nuances in another country in a foreign language is harder. Plus, I can’t vote here in a GE and post Brexit it’s unlikely I’ll have a vote in local election. I can voice opinions but it’ll not make a jot of difference. It’s not incumbent on anyone to engage with politics in any country be they in their country of Origen or as an immigrant. We have to ask the question WHY don’t people engage with politics? I personally am interested in politics here in Spain but if I’m honest from an outsider viewpoint.


----------



## Pazcat

Megsmum said:


> It’s not incumbent on anyone to engage with politics in any country be they in their country of Origen or as an immigrant..


Actually it is in some countries. Australia is a good example of it. Not entirely sure it means that those 1/3 who wouldn't normally engage are actually engaged though. But it is at least enough to get them out the house on a saturday morning so they wont get fined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Overandout said:


> There is a lot of hope being pinned on Sanchez from the left... I get the feeling that he will leave them disappointed.


Do you think people are expecting a lot from Sanchez? It's a genuine question. 
I got the impression that he's just going to be caretaking the country and preparing his party for the next elections that could be sooner rather than later


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> Do you think people are expecting a lot from Sanchez? It's a genuine question.
> I got the impression that he's just going to be caretaking the country and preparing his party for the next elections that could be sooner rather than later


I guess it depends who you spaek to. But in terms of spending, most people I speak to seem to realise that he has his hands tied.

But, if he wants to use his tenure to bolster support for PSOE in the upcoming elections, he would be a fool to just "caretake" and achieve nothing. He needs to do something "popular".

What "popular" is of course depends on who you are....


----------



## Megsmum

Pazcat said:


> Actually it is in some countries. Australia is a good example of it. Not entirely sure it means that those 1/3 who wouldn't normally engage are actually engaged though. But it is at least enough to get them out the house on a saturday morning so they wont get fined.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting


But that’s to vote? Doesn’t mean they’re engaged, simply ticking a box! I can’t vote here, so I’m probably more engaged with UK politics on an intellectual level but I don’t like voting in UK GE as I don’t live there and don’t have to live with the consequences of my vote!


----------



## Megsmum

Overandout said:


> I guess it depends who you spaek to. But in terms of spending, most people I speak to seem to realise that he has his hands tied.
> 
> But, if he wants to use his tenure to bolster support for PSOE in the upcoming elections, he would be a fool to just "caretake" and achieve nothing. He needs to do something "popular".
> 
> What "popular" is of course depends on who you are....


There lies the rub


----------



## baldilocks

Megsmum said:


> But that’s to vote? Doesn’t mean they’re engaged, simply ticking a box! I can’t vote here, so I’m probably more engaged with UK politics on an intellectual level but I don’t like voting in UK GE as I don’t live there and *don’t have to live with the consequences of my vote!*


That applies to many of the brexit voters.


----------



## Isobella

Megsmum said:


> But that’s to vote? Doesn’t mean they’re engaged, simply ticking a box! I can’t vote here, so I’m probably more engaged with UK politics on an intellectual level but I don’t like voting in UK GE as I don’t live there and don’t have to live with the consequences of my vote!


You have family there though.


----------



## Isobella

Megsmum said:


> BIG assumption. Especially as in the UK, up until recently, not many home grown Brits engaged in the political system
> 
> 2015	66.1%
> 2010	65.1%
> 2005	61.4%
> 2001	59.4%
> 
> In Spain last election voter turn out was 66.6%. Lowest since the transition to democracy in 1975, according to a google search
> 
> 
> In the USA the turn out was 58%
> 
> I am not au fait with the electoral system here or in the USA. Understanding UK politics and getting a handle on who represents what is difficult enough when in ones own language, dealing with the nuances in another country in a foreign language is harder. Plus, I can’t vote here in a GE and post Brexit it’s unlikely I’ll have a vote in local election. I can voice opinions but it’ll not make a jot of difference. It’s not incumbent on anyone to engage with politics in any country be they in their country of Origen or as an immigrant. We have to ask the question WHY don’t people engage with politics? I personally am interested in politics here in Spain but if I’m honest from an outsider viewpoint.


Even if people turn out to vote many aren't necessarily engaged in the choice. Lots vote traditionally. I don't blame anyone for not being interested, the parcel is passed around amongst a few parties but very little changes for most. The majority of Politicians are a bunch of self serving hypocrites and are more interested in lining their own pockets. Remember the masses queuing to vote in South Africa when Mandela stood, the same people are still living in the same townships under the same conditions. 

I always vote but I am very cynical now although our MP is very involved on local issues.


----------



## booksurfer

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think much of Spanish politics hits the UK media, but there's a thread in La Tasca


This one did, front page news:

Mariano Rajoy: Spanish PM forced out of office

Treasurer corruption in party funding! Again! Why am I not at all surprised? That's the PP and the PSOE hit with this one. Corruption is just so ingrained in the Spanish psyche they just can't help themselves.


----------



## baldilocks

booksurfer said:


> This one did, front page news:
> 
> Mariano Rajoy: Spanish PM forced out of office
> 
> Treasurer corruption in party funding! Again! Why am I not at all surprised? That's the PP and the PSOE hit with this one. *Corruption is just so ingrained in the Spanish psyche *they just can't help themselves.


It's not just in Spain - take a really good look at the UK, the US and many other countries. I always say that very few politicians are in politics for altruistic reasons.


----------



## booksurfer

baldilocks said:


> It's not just in Spain...


No it isn't.

But when was the last time the British political system was rocked to the extent that a Prime Minster had to stand down due to corruption charges against their party? Think hard...

This has happened twice to my knowledge to Spanish ones, both left and right parties.

It's endemic in Spain, inbuilt and inate from the top right down to the lowliest ayuntamiento staff member.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

booksurfer said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> But when was the last time the British political system was rocked to the extent that a Prime Minster had to stand down due to corruption charges against their party? Think hard...
> 
> This has happened twice to my knowledge to Spanish ones, both left and right parties.
> 
> It's endemic in Spain, inbuilt and inate from the top right down to the lowliest ayuntamiento staff member.


There have been 4 "mociones de censura" since democracy was established, but a president has never been ousted before


----------



## Pesky Wesky

booksurfer said:


> This one did, front page news:
> 
> Mariano Rajoy: Spanish PM forced out of office
> 
> Treasurer corruption in party funding! Again! Why am I not at all surprised? That's the PP and the PSOE hit with this one. Corruption is just so ingrained in the Spanish psyche they just can't help themselves.


Of course it is now because he was ousted. Little was reported about the lead up to the vote of no confidence. Fair enough, it doesn't interest many.


----------



## booksurfer

Pesky Wesky said:


> Of course it is now because he was ousted. Little was reported about the lead up to the vote of no confidence. Fair enough, it doesn't interest many.


Oh I don't know, the Beeb has a small section of news stories on europe:

Europe - BBC News


----------



## booksurfer

Pesky Wesky said:


> There have been 4 "mociones de censura" since democracy was established, but a president has never been ousted before


Indeed.

But both the main Spanish political parties, the PP and the PSOE have now had corruption charges levelled against them for exactly the same reasons.



> By 1990, the governing PSOE was engulfed in scandal, with Deputy Prime Minister Alfonso Guerra eventually resigning due to the misconduct of his brother, Juan, in the first of several affairs that would taint the Socialist administration.
> 
> A recent probe revealed the extent to which PSOE officials exploited their power in the region of Andalusia, where the party has governed without interruption since the return to democracy. Two former regional presidents, Manuel Chaves and José Antonio Griñán, are currently on trial for their alleged part in a scam that included fraudulent early retirement packages, company subsidies and commissions handed out to the tune of €136 million.


It makes interesting reading:

‘Country of thieves’ wrestles with corruption

With the greatest respect to you and your opinion, but you're defending the indefensible.


----------



## The Skipper

booksurfer said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> But when was the last time the British political system was rocked to the extent that a Prime Minster had to stand down due to corruption charges against their party? Think hard...
> 
> This has happened twice to my knowledge to Spanish ones, both left and right parties.
> 
> It's endemic in Spain, inbuilt and inate from the top right down to the lowliest ayuntamiento staff member.


I think the UK establishment is just better at sweeping scandals under the carpet! But several senior UK politicians have ended up behind bars during my lifetime. Many others should have done!


----------



## Megsmum

Isobella said:


> You have family there though.


Yes I do, but I don’t live there, so as controversial as it is, unless it’s a referendum, like Brexit for instance, that has a direct affect on me, I personally don’t feel comfortable voting for a party just because my family want me to. The problem is, that whilst I can vote I will as I have no other vote anywhere else.


----------



## Poloss

booksurfer said:


> It makes interesting reading:
> 
> ‘Country of thieves’ wrestles with corruption


A very good insight from Politico a couple of months back.
I posted the same link in a thread about Franco's daughter's wealth or something similar.

The author explains how the present state of corruption and "clientelism" became practically inevitable in the years following the transition to democracy, joining the EU and the immense economic boom that followed.

Let's not forget that last week's judgement in the Gurtel affair is just *the first phase* of the trial.


----------



## 95995

Interesting item from Transparency International (OK, I admit I support this organisation) re corruption (preceptions, mind you), which IMHO is very widespread https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017#table


----------



## booksurfer

The Skipper said:


> I think the UK establishment is just better at sweeping scandals under the carpet!


Yes absolutely. It would be daft indeed to suggest that corruption doesn't happen elsewhere. You only need to look at how many UK politicians were caught with their hands in the cookie jar when the expenses scandal exploded not that long ago.

Not that it made much difference—they're still at it.

The difference is, as you rightly noted—that it's not so open or obvious in the UK system as it is elsewhere. The UK folk are more duplicitous and crafty in keeping it all hidden behind closed doors and in covering their tracks. They're a lot more sophisticated and clever at hiding it.

Not so the Spanish, they almost see it as their devine birthright to cheat and defraud the system and much more of it is done openly.


----------



## 95995

Let-s be honest, the EU bows to lobbies. Those lobbies, generally working for big business, are themselves a form of big business (not necessarily in terms of staffing, but they are doing extremely well financially). Trust in politicians is falling pretty much everywhere in the western world.


----------



## kaipa

As seen by the posts here people should engage with a the political system of a country especially if they are not from that country but choose to live there. Politics affects are lives yes but it also colours the fabric of the country. If you you don't take some kind of interest in it then you are ignoring the very place where you live and in some sense failing to assist and help a place maintain its sense of democracy. I think it is a moral imperative and social duty as a foreigner to do this. I don't mean all the small details but you should know who is prime minister and the political framework. I have heard enoughBrits here complaining about Immigrants in the UK not knowing enough about Britain but nearly seem to be ignorant of what happens in their new adopted country


----------



## skip o

My assessment is that the US has made corruption a bit more legal than other countries. This was a small news story a few weeks ago...

"The long-sought donation was sealed last week when, according to two senior Republicans, House Speaker Paul Ryan flew to Las Vegas to meet with the billionaire at his Venetian Hotel. Also at the meeting with Adelson was his wife, Miriam; Norm Coleman, the former Minnesota senator who chairs the Republican Jewish Coalition; Corry Bliss, who oversees the super PAC; and Jake Kastan, Ryan's No. 2 political aide. They laid out a case to Adelson about how crucial it is to protect the House."

"As a federally elected official, Ryan is not permitted to solicit seven-figure political donations. When Ryan (R-Wis.) left the room, Coleman made the ask and secured the $30 million contribution."

https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...n-sheldon-adelson-las-vegas-campaign-finance/


----------



## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> As seen by the posts here people should engage with a the political system of a country especially if they are not from that country but choose to live there. Politics affects are lives yes but it also colours the fabric of the country. If you you don't take some kind of interest in it then you are ignoring the very place where you live and in some sense failing to assist and help a place maintain its sense of democracy. I think it is a moral imperative and social duty as a foreigner to do this. I don't mean all the small details but you should know who is prime minister and the political framework. I have heard enoughBrits here complaining about Immigrants in the UK not knowing enough about Britain but nearly seem to be ignorant of what happens in their new adopted country


When you say “here” do you mean this forum or Spain. Again are you saying people on this forum are “ignorant” of what happens in Spain or again those “other” Brits?


----------



## kaipa

No. Sorry. I mean people here talk about and follow political developments hence the number of responses. I am talking about those people who move here and make no effort to learn about the society and culture they so happily call home


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> No. Sorry. I mean people here talk about and follow political developments hence the number of responses. I am talking about those people who move here and make no effort to learn about the society and culture they so happily call home


There are people who follow politics and are interested in it wherever they live (I'm one of those), and others who really aren't interested at all. There are many who don't have a clue about the underlying ideologies of Left and Right, they just base their preference on whether they like the party leader or not.  If they weren't interested in politics when they lived in the UK, why should they attempt to get their heads round the situation in Spain?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Spain's Bilbao fights to lead European wind power sector

https://www.thelocal.es/20180506/spains-bilbao-fights-to-lead-european-wind-power-sector
It seems that the Baqsue country could become important players in offshore floating wind farms


> Offshore wind power challenge
> 
> Haizea also wants to be a strong challenger in the "offshore" segment that makes marine wind turbines and the cylindrical foundations needed to anchor them.
> 
> Iberdrola and Siemens Gamesa already have a strong presence in offshore wind power outside Spain.
> 
> In fact, in Europe this segment is dominated by five northern countries -- Britain, Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Belgium -- which account for 98 percent of the EU's installed capacity.
> 
> The future of offshore wind power in Spain is in floating farm technology, in which wind turbines are anchored to the sea floor using chains and anchors instead of a cylindrical foundation, Juan Virgilio Marques, the head of the Spanish Wind Energy Association, told AFP.
> 
> Hywind located north of Scotland is the only wind farm with these characteristics to date in the entire world.
> 
> "The Basque Country and Canary Islands are the two areas in Spain where floating wind farm technology makes sense" since it is designed for deep waters, said Marquez.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> As seen by the posts here people should engage with a the political system of a country especially if they are not from that country but choose to live there. Politics affects are lives yes but it also colours the fabric of the country. If you you don't take some kind of interest in it then you are ignoring the very place where you live and in some sense failing to assist and help a place maintain its sense of democracy. I think it is a moral imperative and social duty as a foreigner to do this. I don't mean all the small details but you should know who is prime minister and the political framework. I have heard enoughBrits here complaining about Immigrants in the UK not knowing enough about Britain but nearly seem to be ignorant of what happens in their new adopted country


I agree that a basic knowledge of what's happening in the country's politics will enrich your experience of living in Spain, but it's also true that some people don't really care that they are living in Spain, they are just not living in the UK and want to enjoy a bit of sun.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spain's Bilbao fights to lead European wind power sector
> 
> https://www.thelocal.es/20180506/spains-bilbao-fights-to-lead-european-wind-power-sector
> It seems that the Baqsue country could become important players in offshore floating wind farms


Maybe PSOE will reverse the punitive charges on those who wish to sell their excess power generation to the grid and thereby encourage more people to use Spain's greatest free resource - the sun. At the moment we enjoy the hot water from late March to early December but would also love to be free of Endrola and Iberdesa and the frequent power cuts, especially when it gets wet'n'windy.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> Maybe PSOE will reverse the punitive charges on those who wish to sell their excess power generation to the grid and thereby encourage more people to use Spain's greatest free resource - the sun. At the moment we enjoy the hot water from late March to early December but would also love to be free of Endrola and Iberdesa and the frequent power cuts, especially when it gets wet'n'windy.


I seem to remember it was the PSOE who actually reneged on the whole solar power pact thingie under Zapatero, maybe not. Still it has always seemed to me it's a market where Spain could shine (haha ), but our leaders have decided it's not worth it for what ever reason.
I think we are with Som Energia https://www.somenergia.coop/es/


----------



## cermignano

My son is living in China for a couple of years and has no real desire to try to work out the politics but is learning much of the culture


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> Maybe PSOE will reverse the punitive charges on those who wish to sell their excess power generation to the grid and thereby encourage more people to use Spain's greatest free resource - the sun. At the moment we enjoy the hot water from late March to early December but would also love to be free of Endrola and Iberdesa and the frequent power cuts, especially when it gets wet'n'windy.


Yes, they've already taken steps in this direction. Our Pedro certainly doesn't let the grass grow under his feet!



> The new Socialist prime minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez, has informed Brussels about his plans to change the country’s policy on renewable energy and climate change.
> 
> Several sources within the Spanish Socialist Party (PSOE) and the European Union confirmed that Spanish authorities have been in touch with the European Council, which sets the EU’s policy agenda, to discuss Spain’s new approach to environmental issues.


Full story here:
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/06/06/inenglish/1528270804_597351.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Police arrest 3 members of a gang who robbed tourists in their cars



> Detenidos tres miembros de una banda que roba a turistas extranjeros en la A-7


Detenidos tres miembros de una banda que roba a turistas extranjeros en la A-7 | Las Provincias
And I'm sure I heard of a bigger operation in Catalonia yesterday, but I can't find any info about it


----------



## cermignano

That's pretty horrendous. Read in another forum that drivers head to Spain and pick up hire cars. If they stop at a garage or service cafe not too far from the airport then thieves come along to divest them of their belongings/money.


----------



## Overandout

The sad thing is, most of them had been caught before. So the general thinking by these people is that it is worth going back to the same activity even after being caught.

I'm not blaming the GC who have obviously done a great job, but they are not removing the problem, just providing a break.


----------



## baldilocks

Overandout said:


> The sad thing is, most of them had been caught before. So the general thinking by these people is that it is worth going back to the same activity even after being caught.
> 
> I'm not blaming the GC who have obviously done a great job, but they are not removing the problem, just providing a break.


The problem was exacerbated in the past because of car rental companies putting advertising stickers on the cars telling the world that "This is a hired car" They stopped for a while but appear to have started doing it again.


----------



## cermignano

They have sent many Romanians home, especially ones who were using children for begging/pickpocketing but they cannot stop them coming back seemingly


----------



## Pesky Wesky

A few recent stories
The King of Spain's brother in law gets sentenced to 5 years in pison. What surprised me was that he got 5 days to decide which prison he prefered. I wonder if he was given a brochure?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44466383 

Spain's manager lopetegui was sacked 2 days before the start of the world cup!
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44467548


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Rafa Nadal won his *11th* Roland Garros, and he still said "hope to see you next year" like he always does.
A truly amazing person
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44467548


----------



## Lynn R

I do hope that this becomes law in Spain and one of the first achievements of the new Government. I understand that other people would not want it, on religious or other grounds, but I don't believe that gives them the right to force prolonged suffering on those who want to be able to make a free choice of a dignified, pain-free death at a time of their choosing.

La eutanasia, primera ley de la &apos;era Sánchez&apos; | España


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Sils Girona will not fine prostitutes any more as the town hall classifies them as victims of violent chauvinistic behaviour. The clients will still be fined though... Is this a good idea?
El Ayuntamiento de Sils (Girona) sancionará con hasta 3.000 euros a los clientes de prostitutas que ejercen en la carretera | Cataluña


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sils Girona will not fine prostitutes any more as the town hall classifies them as victims of violent chauvinistic behaviour. The clients will still be fined though... Is this a good idea?
> El Ayuntamiento de Sils (Girona) sancionará con hasta 3.000 euros a los clientes de prostitutas que ejercen en la carretera | Cataluña


In principle yes, but only if they are offering the street prostitutes a safer alternative.


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> In principle yes, but only if they are offering the street prostitutes a safer alternative.


My view is that if the authorities are really serious, then they should offer safe regulated premises to the sex workers with proper facilities including medical check-ups and treatment as necessary, proper pension schemes and be treated just like any other employee. The customers should be required to behave with respect and be well behaved. 

On that subject, I have noticed that a couple of premises near here seem to have, all but, closed down. Is this a sign of a recession?


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> My view is that if the authorities are really serious, then they should offer safe regulated premises to the sex workers with proper facilities including medical check-ups and treatment as necessary, proper pension schemes and be treated just like any other employee. The customers should be required to behave with respect and be well behaved.
> 
> On that subject, I have noticed that a couple of premises near here seem to have, all but, closed down. Is this a sign of a recession?


I agree.

Some clubs were closed round here a while back because they were found to be fronts for money laundering, people trafficking and drug running. I don't think the recession has much to do with it.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

La manada (group of men who raped a young woman in Pamplona, I think 2 years ago. Manada = pack) in the news again, twice.

First it seems that one of the members of this gang tried to renew his passport and was refused as they are not allowed to leave the country. This was the Guardia Civil who obviously thought his fellow protectors of the law were not up to much...
And unfortunately there is another Manada in the Canaries. And before anyone says bad taste media, they themselves named their group La Manada... 
Detenidos cuatro hombres y un menor por violar y grabar a una menor en Gran Canaria

https://politica.elpais.com/politica/2018/06/27/actualidad/1530090089_125272.html


----------



## kaipa

Yes the "wolf pack" AS they called themselves are out of jail but under certain restrictions one being they are not allowed to leave the country. Now you would think that having received such lenient sentences they would just try and abide by the law and stay out of trouble but no. One tries to get himself another passport!!!. Tells you a lot about these people. The canary islands group appear to have thought it amusing to use the name for themselves after drugging and allegedly raping a girl. Good old machismo Spain.


----------



## Alcalaina

*Barcelona municipal energy scheme goes live*

The City of Barcelona has just switched its municipal electricity supply from Endesa to the publicly owned company Barcelona Energía (BE). As of 30 June all the street lighting and public buildings in the city are supplied by BE, directly saving taxpayers €700k of euros. From next January it will be available to householders, offering them lower energy bills than the private sector. Future profits will be returned to the city, thus benefiting the residents still further. 

https://www.elperiodico.com/es/barc...blica-barcelona-energia-releva-endesa-6917694


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> The City of Barcelona has just switched its municipal electricity supply from Endesa to the publicly owned company Barcelona Energía (BE). As of 30 June all the street lighting and public buildings in the city are supplied by BE, directly saving taxpayers €700k of euros. From next January it will be available to householders, offering them lower energy bills than the private sector. Future profits will be returned to the city, thus benefiting the residents still further.
> 
> https://www.elperiodico.com/es/barc...blica-barcelona-energia-releva-endesa-6917694


Wow, I don't understand the workings of it, but this looks like it could be a new era for energy companies


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Wow, I don't understand the workings of it, but this looks like it could be a new era for energy companies


One hopes that this will be an era when common-sense prevails and the populace will be encouraged (rather than dis-) to go for personal solar to make use of all the sunshine we get.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

The mayor of Pamplona causes a stir by talking about the possibility of San Fermines without bullfights!!


> Asirón provoked a heated reaction from bullfighting supporters. “I don’t see a Sanfermines 100% bull-free, but what I do envisage in the foreseeable future is a Sanfermines without the bullfighting,” he declared.
> Asirón defended the early-morning runs through the streets of Pamplona that have earned the northern Spanish city international fame, describing them as a “mark of identity.” But he added that “with regards to the future, nobody can imagine a form of entertainment based on animal cruelty.” On Wednesday, he reiterated that “society understands this more clearly everyday.”


Article in English
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/06/21/inenglish/1529573815_079272.html
And in Spanish
https://elpais.com/cultura/2018/06/20/actualidad/1529519461_196393.htmlp://


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> The mayor of Pamplona causes a stir by talking about the possibility of San Fermines without bullfights!!
> 
> Article in English
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/06/21/inenglish/1529573815_079272.html
> And in Spanish
> https://elpais.com/cultura/2018/06/20/actualidad/1529519461_196393.htmlp://


Sorry, this is the link in Spanishhttps://elpais.com/cultura/2018/06/20/actualidad/1529519461_196393.html


----------



## Alcalaina

*Fake degrees*

Latest scandal in Spanish politics - health minister Carmen Montón has resigned after it was proved that her master's degree from the Rey Juan Carlos was fake. A short while ago something similar happened to Cristina Cifuentes, president of the Madrid regional governmentm and the new PP leader, Pablo Casado, is under investigation for the same thing.

Mayor of Barcelona Ada Colau has spoken out about how common this is. Apparently a multinational company offered to get her an "easy" higher degree (i.e. without actually having to turn up to classes) but she declined.

It comes to something when people with genuine masters' degrees are running round serving drinks in bars, while people with fake ones are running the country ...


----------



## Elyles

Alcalaina said:


> Latest scandal in Spanish politics - health minister Carmen Montón has resigned after it was proved that her master's degree from the Rey Juan Carlos was fake. A short while ago something similar happened to Cristina Cifuentes, president of the Madrid regional governmentm and the new PP leader, Pablo Casado, is under investigation for the same thing.
> 
> Mayor of Barcelona Ada Colau has spoken out about how common this is. Apparently a multinational company offered to get her an "easy" higher degree (i.e. without actually having to turn up to classes) but she declined.
> 
> It comes to something when people with genuine masters' degrees are running round serving drinks in bars, while people with fake ones are running the country ...




In the US one of the first on line universities was the University of Phoenix. At first it was a degree mill, offering degrees for experience. I remember trying to hire mental health clinicians for our clinic and if I saw a resume that stated Univ. of Phoenix I would tear it up and throw it in the garbage in front of my entire team. I would also often make a comment like, “ a few of us went to real universities”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kaipa

Now they are suggesting that Sanchezs thesis was co written


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> Now they are suggesting that Sanchezs thesis was co written


He's just agreed to publish it, so "they" can see it isn't.


----------



## Alcalaina

And now it's the turn of Albert Rivera, leader of Cuidadanos. The doctorate in constitutional law shown on his CV on their web page mysteriously disappeared overnight. The Autonomous University of Barcelona, where he claimed to have received it, deny all knowledge.


----------



## kaipa

Looks like Pablo Iglesias is the only one with a genuine PHD and he has been arguing this point of corruption has permeated every level of official life and that you are really a democratic society until it is exposed and dealt with


----------



## Pazcat

Ooh, our village mayor has one of those dodgy degrees too. He is very proud of it. Cost him 11 grand and all.
Not a nice chap it would seem.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Not exactly news, but I came across this...
Info for people who want to know about education in Spain

A good opportunity to practice your Spanish, it's not very difficult. A clue, it's not the obvious answer


----------



## kaipa

Great video. Highlights a real problem in Spain and to be honest a completely useless education system. It is so true . The Spanish kids work so hard here. It is ridiculous what they are expected to do with the bachillerato and here is the pay off....they actually seem to have a lower ability than other EU countries who require much less from their school pipils. Yet they do the homework because they are not taught how to learn at school. They just do homework then mark it then do an exam and repeat. Teachers seem to regard the job as being a way of having a permanent contract and long holidays and have little interest in teaching. They really need a complete overhaul of the system but it won't happen as the whole idea of possessing titles and certificates is so engrained in society as a sign of empowerment and privilege that it will never be removed. Look at the present political situation with Masters and all the politicians.They feel that demonstrating intelligence confers a right of power and entitlement. Maybe they should take a look at the real movers and shakers of our times...Zuckerman, Gates, Branson, Musk. All highly intelligent persons who have achieved remarkable things without the need to place letters after their names.


----------



## Alcalaina

I see the Mayor of Madrid has reversed her predecessor Ana Botella's decision to name a square in the city after Margaret Thatcher. 

https://www.ecorepublicano.es/2018/09/manuela-carmena-expulsa-margaret-de.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

The cheapest and most expensive capitals to live in in Spain.
https://www.larazon.es/economia/bar...-las-ciudades-mas-caras-para-vivir-CK19207126
It also shows how salaries match up and I was kind of surprised that Madrid is the third most expensive place to live, but comes 15th in the salary ranking!!


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> The cheapest and most expensive capitals to live in in Spain.
> https://www.larazon.es/economia/bar...-las-ciudades-mas-caras-para-vivir-CK19207126
> It also shows how salaries match up and I was kind of surprised that Madrid is the third most expensive place to live, but comes 15th in the salary ranking!!


Interesting and useful information.

Did you see the bit right at the end, about the price of a beer?



> A la hora de disfrutar de una caña, Madrid también es la ciudad con los precios más caros (2,95 euros) y Soria, Cádiz, Burgos y Badajoz, las más económicas (1,25 euros).


It's been €1 in Alcalá since we first came here in 2005. Obviously cheaper to live outside of capital cities!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting and useful information.
> 
> Did you see the bit right at the end, about the price of a beer?
> 
> 
> 
> It's been €1 in Alcalá since we first came here in 2005. Obviously cheaper to live outside of capital cities!


 No, didn't see that and it makes me think it's not very accurate. I don't drink Spanish beer but OH does and I don't _think_ he ever pays that much...
The cinema price is accurate though, but we're lucky in having a bar that's opened a 50 seat cinema near us at only 6€ I think it is, and someone gets up and introduces the film for you at the beginning


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Expanding vocabulary...
Aforo = give privilege to, and from there, aforamiento*...*


Sanchez wants to do away with giving politicians juidicial immunity. However, the statement was later clarified and it is now said that they are seeking to change part of this law. Politicians will not have to stand trial for the crimes committed during their official capacity...


Seems to me that that's exactly when they should be judged!


*Sánchez quiere quitar el aforamiento, pero solo para delitos ajenos al cargo*

https://elpais.com/politica/2018/09/17/actualidad/1537171600_616926.html


----------



## Isobella

Pazcat said:


> Ooh, our village mayor has one of those dodgy degrees too. He is very proud of it. Cost him 11 grand and all.
> Not a nice chap it would seem.


Now on BBC. The same Madrid University awarded fake degrees to 500 Italians.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45587685


----------



## Alcalaina

I just googled "Fake degrees in the UK" (because I know it happens there too) and this came up! How can it be legal?

https://uk.diplomacompany.com/order-fake-diploma-uk.html



> Fake Diploma UK
> fake diploma uk, fake uk diploma, uk fake degrees, University of Lancaster, Coventry University, University of Oxford, Open University
> This Product Features
> Realistic Signatures and Proper Signature Placement! Matches Real Diploma's Layout, Structure, Fonts and MORE! Free Proofs Available Before Document Leaves! Replica Diploma Seals! Shiny Gold Embossed! Infused Foil Seals! Full HD Color! We stock layouts from many UK Colleges and Universities! Options include schools in places like London, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, Leeds, Glasgow, Liverpool, Newcastle, Nottingham, and so much more! We can ship this item anywhere in the U.K. or elsewhere! Quick delivery services! Package tracking available!
> Item Description
> Find Fake Diplomas from UK Universities & Colleges! High Quality Replicas!
> 
> Are you seeking a fake uk diploma from a college or university in the United Kingdom? If so, we can help. We stock original templates, replicated from real diplomas at schools such as University of Lancaster, Coventry University, University of Oxford, Open University, University of Cambridge, University of Nottingham, King's College London and more!
> 
> All of our documents are 100% personalized with student details, degree information, dates for passing and more. Don't see a specific school that you want, don't worry. Just ask our staff and we can help locate almost any diploma of need!


----------



## Isobella

Not genuine degrees like the ones given by a Madrid University, they are forgeries and most show they are. Just money makers selling poor quality.


----------



## Isobella

kaipa said:


> They really need a complete overhaul of the system but it won't happen as the whole idea of possessing titles and certificates is so engrained in society as a sign of empowerment and privilege that it will never be removed. Look at the present political situation with Masters and all the politicians.They feel that demonstrating intelligence confers a right of power and entitlement. Maybe they should take a look at the real movers and shakers of our times...Zuckerman, Gates, Branson, Musk. All highly intelligent persons who have achieved remarkable things without the need to place letters after their names.


Yes I agree, most employers refer back to the A levels when looking at CVs rather than rely on degrees. I think the ones you quote though were helped in the beginning by having middle class backgrounds. Most student drop outs quote Branson as an example but his Grandfather was a Judge and his dad a barrister, similar Gates, his Father was a lawyer and his grandfather a bank President. They have access to advice, contacts and at times money. A working class kid living in a council house is unlikely to have any of this even with a great idea. Some have done it like Alan Sugar, Charlie Mullins e.g. but few and far between. Percentage of start ups failing are very high.

If you apply for a position and one of the requirements is a degree and haven't got one then the CV will be automatically tossed for the shredder.

Being a Politician seems to open doors to lucrative directorships etc. ha ha.


----------



## Alcalaina

*Spanish doctors petition for government action against pseudo-therapies*

Following the recent death of a woman who tried to treat her breast cancer with homeopathy, hundreds of medical professionals have petitioned the government to take action against all forms of pseudoscientific therapies, which currently are not covered by the strict evidence-based regulations, clinical trials etc required of conventional medicines.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/09/24/ciencia/1537776944_563077.html

The new health minister, Luisa Carcedo, is herself a doctor and has already stated that homeopathy should be subject to the same rigorous testing as other medical products, i.e. it must be proved to be effective.

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2018/09/20/actualidad/1537445062_726901.html


----------



## Pazcat

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45782359

*sigh*


----------



## Alcalaina

Pazcat said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45782359
> 
> *sigh*


Sad that too much time elapsed for this particular "doctor" to be tried in this case of a baby being stolen from its mother. There was another case, or maybe the same one, where a nun who was a key collaborator died before the trial.

But everyone knows now that the practice went on, and it won't be the last such case to reach the courts.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45782359
> 
> *sigh*


 I was just listening to this on the radio. I don't understand this thing about "prescrito", unprosecutable. The crime has been recognised, and so if it's been commited then that's it as far as I can see. He's over 80 so he wouldn't have been imprisoned anyway. It's outrageous!!

Does this happen in the UK too, the not being prosecuted because too much time has passed? It's a continual occurance in Spanish justice


PS She is going to take it to the Supreme Court


----------



## Pazcat

Pesky Wesky said:


> I was just listening to this on the radio. I don't understand this thing about "prescrito", unprosecutable. The crime has been recognised, and so if it's been commited then that's it as far as I can see. He's over 80 so he wouldn't have been imprisoned anyway. It's outrageous!!
> 
> Does this happen in the UK too, the not being prosecuted because too much time has passed? It's a continual occurance in Spanish justice
> 
> 
> PS She is going to take it to the Supreme Court


Well to be fair most countries do have a statute of limitations however most countries do have systems in place to waive the statute in the case of severe crimes like murder, rape, genocide, etc...

But to be honest I gave up trying to understand the Spanish judicial system when I discovered it is perfectly acceptable for a defendant or claimant to commit perjury in a court of law.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> I was just listening to this on the radio. I don't understand this thing about "prescrito", unprosecutable. The crime has been recognised, and so if it's been commited then that's it as far as I can see. He's over 80 so he wouldn't have been imprisoned anyway. It's outrageous!!
> 
> Does this happen in the UK too, the not being prosecuted because too much time has passed? It's a continual occurance in Spanish justice
> 
> 
> PS She is going to take it to the Supreme Court


The Greville Janner case came to mind. Let off being tried for child abuse because he had dementia. But it's not the same because there was never a trial; at least Vela was proven to be guilty.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/19/lord-janner-dies-aged-87


----------



## Alcalaina

Pazcat said:


> Well to be fair most countries do have a statute of limitations however most countries do have systems in place to waive the statute in the case of severe crimes like murder, rape, genocide, etc...
> 
> But to be honest I gave up trying to understand the Spanish judicial system when I discovered it is perfectly acceptable for a defendant or claimant to commit perjury in a court of law.


However much they protest the opposite, the justice system in Spain is political. Church, State and the Judiciary, all looking after each others' interests. They are worse than the Freemansons (in fact some of them probably are).


----------



## Lynn R

Tragic news of five people killed and five more missing after flash floods in Mallorca.

https://elpais.com/politica/2018/10/09/actualidad/1539116387_575481.html

There was some damage not far from us, in Benajarafe, a couple of days ago, but thankfully no casualties. Today the province of Málaga is on red alert (the highest level) for torrential rain.

I hope those wanting to move to Spain because they are fed up of the weather in their home countries are taking note.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> Tragic news of five people killed and five more missing after flash floods in Mallorca.
> 
> https://elpais.com/politica/2018/10/09/actualidad/1539116387_575481.html
> 
> There was some damage not far from us, in Benajarafe, a couple of days ago, but thankfully no casualties. Today the province of Málaga is on red alert (the highest level) for torrential rain.
> 
> I hope those wanting to move to Spain because they are fed up of the weather in their home countries are taking note.


Mallorca death toll is rising ... currently eight and many missing. TV footage looks like something you see in the Third World - quite horrifying.

Orange and yellow alerts across other parts of the country today. Just starting to cloud over here in Cádiz. Decided not to put the washing on!



> La alerta es naranja en Málaga, Barcelona, Girona, Ibiza y Formentera y amarilla en Tarragona y el resto de las Baleares. Mañana, amarillo en Cádiz, A Coruña y Pontevedra


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Mallorca death toll is rising ... currently eight and many missing. TV footage looks like something you see in the Third World - quite horrifying.
> 
> Orange and yellow alerts across other parts of the country today. Just starting to cloud over here in Cádiz. Decided not to put the washing on!


A friend was watching the rain on the radar yesterday. Said that a huge patch of heavy rain looked to be heading our way when it almost suddenly veered off to the Balearics!

It looks dreadful


----------



## The Skipper

Alcalaina said:


> However much they protest the opposite, the justice system in Spain is political. Church, State and the Judiciary, all looking after each others' interests. They are worse than the Freemansons (in fact some of them probably are).


It will be denied but the Catholic Church has its own version of Freemasonry ... Opus Dei.


----------



## Alcalaina

The Skipper said:


> It will be denied but the Catholic Church has its own version of Freemasonry ... Opus Dei.


Indeed, that occurred to me after I'd posted. 

They can deny it all they like but fortunately there is still a strong and healthy culture of investigative journalism in this country:

https://www.publico.es/sociedad/74-rostros-influyentes-opus-dei.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Mallorca death toll is rising ... currently eight and many missing. TV footage looks like something you see in the Third World - quite horrifying.
> 
> Orange and yellow alerts across other parts of the country today. Just starting to cloud over here in Cádiz. Decided not to put the washing on!


On an interview on the radio an "expert" (in what I can't remember) was asked if this could have been avoided. the answer was somewhat along the lines of given the location of the towns affected and the speed at which things happened, no. There was a period of about 15 mins to act in. The channelization needed to stop this happening was not feasible due to the nature of flash flooding. However, he did say at one point that there were towns/ villages in flood areas...


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> On an interview on the radio an "expert" (in what I can't remember) was asked if this could have been avoided. the answer was somewhat along the lines of given the location of the towns affected and the speed at which things happened, no. There was a period of about 15 mins to act in. The channelization needed to stop this happening was not feasible due to the nature of flash flooding. However, he did say at one point that there were towns/ villages in flood areas...


That will be the expert in avoidance of personal responsibility. 
The same one that states that car accidents are caused by bad weather, no mention of the drivers' failure to adapt their driving to the conditions


----------



## Alcalaina

Overandout said:


> That will be the expert in avoidance of personal responsibility.
> The same one that states that car accidents are caused by bad weather, no mention of the drivers' failure to adapt their driving to the conditions


Well, I don't think anyone predicted this:



> More than 230 millimeters of rain fell on the area in just two hours. According to a preliminary report by Spain’s AEMET national weather service, “the probability of 233 millimeters of rain falling in Colònia de Sant Pere [close to Sant Lorenç] in Mallorca, which was recorded yesterday, is one in a thousand years.”


Not sure what they could have done with such short notice. Not even time to evacuate the area.


----------



## Nomoss

Alcalaina said:


> Mallorca death toll is rising ... currently eight and many missing. TV footage looks like something you see in the Third World - quite horrifying. ...............................



There were a few similarly devastating floods in Mallorca during the 20 or so years we were there.

There is an ancient system of _torrentes, deep storm channels, which were created to carry water away safely, found all over the island, many of which have never carried any water in living memory.

After nearly every bad flood, it was found that torrentes, which could have at least mitigated the damage and loss of life, had been allowed to become overgrown with tall grass, bushes, bamboo, and even large trees. These were uprooted by the water flow, but then formed dams further down. These dams held back enormous amounts of water, and when they eventually gave way this was released, causing a catastrophic wave of mud and debris.

After one flood it was found that a hotel, where staff sleeping on the ground floor were drowned, had been built in a torrente, and after another, that a small urbanisation had been built over one. In Porto Petro, where a small marina had been created in the creek at the end of a torrente, many small boats, and the actual jetty to which some were moored, were swept out to sea.

In Palma itself, the torrente "Sa Riera" seems to have been diverted several times over the years, and enters the sea near the bottom of Av. Argentina.

When we were there the bed was used as a car park, which always seemed a bit risky to me. Later, ornamental gardens were created on the banks, a series of cataracts were built, and now the lower end has filled with stagnant water which has collected there._


----------



## Alcalaina

Similar story in Málaga I suspect, 21st century failure to maintain all those essential drainage channels carefully constructed by the Romans and the Moors. Marbella, Estepona, Alhaurin, Coín etc all affected yesterday.

https://elpais.com/politica/2018/10/10/actualidad/1539152864_680148.html


----------



## Pazcat

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-no-onionists-spanish-omelette-recipe-rivalry

The way it should be.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-no-onionists-spanish-omelette-recipe-rivalry
> 
> The way it should be.


I'm a "con cebolla" kind of woman


----------



## 95995

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm a "con cebolla" kind of woman


Me too, and so are my Spanish cousins


----------



## Pazcat

I can't stand raw or under cooked onions so without please.
And to be fair it may not be a traditional tortilla but I prefer using leftover roast potatoes and whatever meat we had as well. Definitely a good use of leftovers. And if we had leftover roasted onions I'd happily chuck them in too.


----------



## 95995

Well, since I make my own tortilla, the onions are always well cooked, though I've never had one with undercooked onions even when eating out, and certainly not when I lived in Spain.

I notice the article talks about adding chorizo - can't think of anything worse. It's a bit like here in the SW of France where they are a bit addicted to the stuff and even pit it in paella (of course, NW Spain and SW France are much the same region in many ways.


----------



## Pazcat

I imagine most peoples ideas of what constitutes a cooked onion probably differs from mine, never have I had one that is palatable to me, same goes for a quiche so best without for me at least. I can do it myself but the onions go on an hour in advance, kind of defeats the purpose.
Then again I can't stand the al dente trend for vegetable as a whole, I like it cooked through please.

I also think one is probably best off never putting chorizo in anything, ever.

Again that is just me.


----------



## Nomoss

EverHopeful said:


> Well, since I make my own tortilla, the onions are always well cooked, though I've never had one with undercooked onions even when eating out, and certainly not when I lived in Spain.
> 
> I notice the article talks about adding chorizo - can't think of anything worse. It's a bit like here in the SW of France where they are a bit addicted to the stuff and even pit it in paella (of course, NW Spain and SW France are much the same region in many ways.


In our experience, most attempts at foreign food around here are pretty suspect, so we usually stick to roadside restaurants with a few commercial vehicles parked outside.

Possibly the worst we've had, near Pamiers, was a curry loaded with what tasted like honey and sugar, which was made by what seemed to be people from the right part of the world, but to cater to their interpretation of French tastes.

But even that didn't beat the steaks in a Buffalo Grill in Toulouse for unconventional taste; they seemed to have been marinated in vinegar, maybe because they were a bit off, which later occurred to us.


----------



## Nomoss

Pazcat said:


> I imagine most peoples ideas of what constitutes a cooked onion probably differs from mine, never have I had one that is palatable to me, same goes for a quiche so best without for me at least. I can do it myself but the onions go on an hour in advance, kind of defeats the purpose.
> 
> Then again I can't stand the al dente trend for vegetable as a whole, I like it cooked through please. .................


----------



## Lynn R

Pazcat said:


> I also think one is probably best off never putting chorizo in anything, ever.
> 
> Again that is just me.


No, not just you - I can't stand the stuff.

Onions in tortilla I don't mind. Have tried some great ones in the "gourmet market" type of places, where stalls sell several different varieties. I remember particularly one with mushrooms from the Mercat D'Olivar in Palma de Mallorca.


----------



## Alcalaina

I will continue to put cebolla in mine, sorry.

I also take issue with "fry the potatoes till golden". They (and the onion) should be fried gently until soft, but not browned. Or so I've been told.


----------



## 95995

Alcalaina said:


> I will continue to put cebolla in mine, sorry.
> 
> I also take issue with "fry the potatoes till golden". T*hey (and the onion) should be fried gently until soft, but not browned.* Or so I've been told.


Agree, and it seems to me to be the Spanish way.


----------



## jimenato

Definitely con cebolla.

And as far as I am concerned you can stick them in raw.:hungry:


----------



## Nomoss

I think a tortilla should really be made with fresh onions fried until translucent, with leftover potatoes and a few green vegetables which have been left to marinate in the fridge for a day or two.

Probably the most authentic and original tortilla


----------



## Alcalaina

Some idiot is selling bleach as a cure for autism. These b"stards should be locked up!

https://www.lasexta.com/noticias/so...-pamies_201810105bbe0e210cf260116be2988d.html


----------



## Nomoss

Alcalaina said:


> Some idiot is selling bleach as a cure for autism. These b"stards should be locked up!
> 
> https://www.lasexta.com/noticias/so...-pamies_201810105bbe0e210cf260116be2988d.html


He's not the only one.

https://www.dsalud.com/reportaje/el-mms-o-la-solucion-mineral-milagrosa/

It seems to have started with a crazy nun somewhere in Africa.

They should stick to making alcoholic concoctions.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Sad that too much time elapsed for this particular "doctor" to be tried in this case of a baby being stolen from its mother. There was another case, or maybe the same one, where a nun who was a key collaborator died before the trial.
> 
> But everyone knows now that the practice went on, and it won't be the last such case to reach the courts.


 A different view point on the stolen babies story


> Rafael Bañón, ...“I don’t think there was a systematic theft of newborns in Spain, but rather a problem of irregular adoptions.”


https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/10/2...?id_externo_nwl=newsletter_inenglish20181026m


----------



## Lynn R

Pretty worrying to think that a political extremist, known to police, could amass an arsenal of weapons like this Franco supporter who was plotting to assassinate Pedro Sanchez.

https://www.diariosur.es/nacional/mossos-detienen-francotirador-20181108091142-ntrc.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Shortage of pharmaceuticals in Spain.
Yes it seems it's true, Spain is suffering from shortages of *some* medicines. One of them is Dalsy which, if you've ever had a child in Spain, you will know about as it's a fundamental in the pediatrician's medicine cabinet. Another is the dreaded Nolotil which we northern Europeans have been warned against taking anyway. (See this thread https://www.expatforum.com/expats/s...n/1466432-nolotil-now-banned-spain-brits.html ) More seriously a Spanish friend was told recently that tablets that she takes for a heart condition were not to be found... 

It's difficult to know if the press are reporting this correctly. For example many articles say that paracetamol is difficult to find in some areas, but it doesn't appear on the government short list, so who's wrong, the reporters or the government?
Article (short) in Spanish here
Los farmacéuticos alertan del desabastecimiento de medicamentos comunes | Sociedad | Cadena SER
On of the possible reasons stated here for the shortages is Brexit and the UK stockpiling against future supply problems.



You can find out if your medicines are available or not by looking here, but I think it's a national site, not local so I presume there may still be local problems not reflected here
https://cima.aemps.es/cima/publico/home.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Even better is this this link which shows the pharmaceuticals that in short supply in Spain and gives you possible alternatives
https://cima.aemps.es/cima/publico/listadesabastecimiento.html?activos=1


----------



## Lynn R

Nomoss said:


> I think a tortilla should really be made with fresh onions fried until translucent, with leftover potatoes and a few green vegetables which have been left to marinate in the fridge for a day or two.
> 
> Probably the most authentic and original tortilla


The purists wouldn't like it, but we found a great place on Calle Feria, Sevilla, this week which sells tortillas and only tortillas. All kinds of varieties from the classic recipe, to others with, for example, onions and peppers, 3 cheeses, spinach and gorgonzola, goats cheese caramelised onions and walnuts, or mushrooms (which comes with a small tub of salsa de trufas). All cost €2 per portion and if you buy 4 you get an extra one free. They really are made on the premises because you can see the owner cooking them, and I had to come back in 10 minutes to wait for one of the ones I wanted to finish cooking. It's called Tortilla's (apologies for the greengrocer's apostrophe but that is the name!) and obviously popular with locals.


----------



## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> The purists wouldn't like it, but we found a great place on Calle Feria, Sevilla, this week which sells tortillas and only tortillas. All kinds of varieties from the classic recipe, to others with, for example, onions and peppers, 3 cheeses, spinach and gorgonzola, goats cheese caramelised onions and walnuts, or mushrooms (which comes with a small tub of salsa de trufas). All cost €2 per portion and if you buy 4 you get an extra one free. They really are made on the premises because you can see the owner cooking them, and I had to come back in 10 minutes to wait for one of the ones I wanted to finish cooking. It's called Tortilla's (apologies for the greengrocer's apostrophe but that is the name!) and obviously popular with locals.


Can't stand that type of tortillas - just give me a French omelette with cheese.


----------



## tarot650

baldilocks said:


> Can't stand that type of tortillas - just give me a French omelette with cheese.


Each to their own Baldi.LOL.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> The purists wouldn't like it, but we found a great place on Calle Feria, Sevilla, this week which sells tortillas and only tortillas. All kinds of varieties from the classic recipe, to others with, for example, onions and peppers, 3 cheeses, spinach and gorgonzola, goats cheese caramelised onions and walnuts, or mushrooms (which comes with a small tub of salsa de trufas). All cost €2 per portion and if you buy 4 you get an extra one free. They really are made on the premises because you can see the owner cooking them, and I had to come back in 10 minutes to wait for one of the ones I wanted to finish cooking. It's called Tortilla's (apologies for the greengrocer's apostrophe but that is the name!) and obviously popular with locals.


They sound delicious, shame it's not in Madrid.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

House in the Gorafe Desert, Andalucia. Had never heard of this place.




> OFIS Architects and Guardian Glass have worked together to take on the extremes of the Gorafe Desert in Spain with this incredible glass house.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p06nxjlj/the-miraculous-house-in-the-middle-of-the-desert


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> House in the Gorafe Desert, Andalucia. Had never heard of this place.


It is about 82 km due east from where I am sitting now. It is in Granada Province quite close to where there are troglodyte dwellings


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> House in the Gorafe Desert, Andalucia. Had never heard of this place.


I wish they would incorporate some of that technology into my house. Clear blue skies and 9 hours of sunshine each day, but it's freezing indoors!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

A theatre in Madrid is trying out some new technology for the first time tonight. There are microphones all over the theatre that record the applause and laughter (if there is any). The decibel reading is then converted into energy and the energy is given to an NGO or it is sold and the money is donated. I can only find the story in Spanish atm.
https://www.madridiario.es/463909/aplausos-convertidos-en-electricidad


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> A theatre in Madrid is trying out some new technology for the first time tonight. There are microphones all over the theatre that record the applause and laughter (if there is any). The decibel reading is then converted into energy and the energy is given to an NGO or it is sold and the money is donated. I can only find the story in Spanish atm.
> https://www.madridiario.es/463909/aplausos-convertidos-en-electricidad


Are you sure this wasn't written on 28 Dec?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Are you sure this wasn't written on 28 Dec?


 Don't think so, it's all over the news today...
It's because the new sponsor (is that the right word?) of the theatre is a Portuguese Energy Company


----------



## baldilocks

The PP fields a heavy weight team:

https://www.huffingtonpost.es/2019/...es-de-peso_a_23681330/?utm_hp_ref=es-homepage


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Only in Spanish I'm afraid...
*El aplaudido mensaje de un doctor español en una Universidad estadounidense contra Casado: "Eres un fraude"*

https://www.huffingtonpost.es/2019/...er_trending_qeesnbnu0l8&utm_campaign=trending




> Antes de acabar su vídeo Gelabert se presenta y le manda un potente mensaje al líder popular: "Me doctoré en 2004 en esta universidad y tú, Pablo Casado Blanco, eres un fraude y un mequetrefe".


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Night watchmen/ women are employed by the town hall in Santa Coloma de Gramenet, Catalonia.
They work from 23:00 - 7:00 and you can ask them to accompany you from the bus/ underground stop to home, older people ask them to throw out the rubbish...They report anti social behaviour to the police, a broken car window... general goings on at night. The mayoress has opened up 18 jobs for unemployed people over 45.
I think it's brilliant!
https://www.elperiodico.com/es/santa-coloma/20190116/santa-coloma-gramenet-sereno-7249427
Gijón has employed "serenos" for many years and they used to be employed in all cities and towns, mainly as waker upers
Serenos Gijón | Bienvenidos a nuestra nueva web


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Night watchmen/ women are employed by the town hall in Santa Coloma de Gramenet, Catalonia.
> They work from 23:00 - 7:00 and you can ask them to accompany you from the bus/ underground stop to home, older people ask them to throw out the rubbish...They report anti social behaviour to the police, a broken car window... general goings on at night. The mayoress has opened up 18 jobs for unemployed people over 45.
> I think it's brilliant!
> https://www.elperiodico.com/es/santa-coloma/20190116/santa-coloma-gramenet-sereno-7249427
> Gijón has employed "serenos" for many years and they used to be employed in all cities and towns, mainly as waker upers
> Serenos Gijón | Bienvenidos a nuestra nueva web


What a great idea!


----------



## Nomoss

Pesky Wesky said:


> Night watchmen/ women are employed by the town hall in Santa Coloma de Gramenet, Catalonia.
> They work from 23:00 - 7:00 and you can ask them to accompany you from the bus/ underground stop to home, older people ask them to throw out the rubbish...They report anti social behaviour to the police, a broken car window... general goings on at night. The mayoress has opened up 18 jobs for unemployed people over 45.
> I think it's brilliant!
> https://www.elperiodico.com/es/santa-coloma/20190116/santa-coloma-gramenet-sereno-7249427
> Gijón has employed "serenos" for many years and they used to be employed in all cities and towns, mainly as waker upers
> Serenos Gijón | Bienvenidos a nuestra nueva web


We were in Melilla in 1969, stuck there trying to get a suspicious bank to release money to us which we had transferred from the US (another story). 
We ran into an American methodist missionary, Joe Newton, based there, who helped us argue with the bank, and then offered the kids and ourselves beds for the night in his mission/youth club, in an apartment building in the middle of town.
One we had eaten, and bedded down the kids, we nipped across to the bar opposite, from where we could keep an eye on the room where they were.
We didn't have a key for the main door, so closed it slowly to stop it latching, but when we returned, other occupants of the building had closed it.
My wife was getting a bit distraught, so we asked in the bar how he thought we could get into the building.
"Stand in the street and clap your hands" he said, but we thought he was being sarcastic.
We wandered around outside the door of the building, until my wife jokingly said maybe I should try clapping my hands, which I did.
Immediately, a little wizened old man appeared from a tiny sheltered alcove further down the street, with a huge bunch of keys, and unlocked the door for us.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Nomoss said:


> We were in Melilla in 1969, stuck there trying to get a suspicious bank to release money to us which we had transferred from the US (another story).
> We ran into an American methodist missionary, Joe Newton, based there, who helped us argue with the bank, and then offered the kids and ourselves beds for the night in his mission/youth club, in an apartment building in the middle of town.
> One we had eaten, and bedded down the kids, we nipped across to the bar opposite, from where we could keep an eye on the room where they were.
> We didn't have a key for the main door, so closed it slowly to stop it latching, but when we returned, other occupants of the building had closed it.
> My wife was getting a bit distraught, so we asked in the bar how he thought we could get into the building.
> "Stand in the street and clap your hands" he said, but we thought he was being sarcastic.
> We wandered around outside the door of the building, until my wife jokingly said maybe I should try clapping my hands, which I did.
> Immediately, a little wizened old man appeared from a tiny sheltered alcove further down the street, with a huge bunch of keys, and unlocked the door for us.


 And that's exactly the kind of thing that the "serenos" were employed to do.
Great story!


According to El País, the job of "sereno" in Madrid officially disappeared in 1986, so not that long ago really.



> Aunque la profesión de sereno desapareció oficialmente en 1986, cuando muchos de estos empleados se integraron en la plantilla del Ayuntamiento de Madrid, Manuel prefirió continuar por su cuenta con un trabajo que, según señala con orgullo, se remonta a la época del rey Carlos III.


https://elpais.com/economia/2014/01/05/agencias/1388914972_950297.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Spain orders Franco's body be exhumed from mausoleum by June 15th
*




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sco-franco-remains-in-june-idUSKCN1QW1QB?il=0


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> *Spain orders Franco's body be exhumed from mausoleum by June 15th
> *
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sco-franco-remains-in-june-idUSKCN1QW1QB?il=0


I live in hope, but I doubt this will ever happen.

And to be honest the re-emergence of the far right in Spain today worries me much more than what happens to the bones of a long-gone dictator.


----------



## Alcalaina

Spain's population is falling. Various solutions have been proposed by the right-wing PP leader Pablo Casado, including removing women's rights to prevent or terminate unwanted pregnancies. But this is a new one on me:



> The conservative Popular Party (PP) has come up with a policy that would see pregnant undocumented migrants in Spain spared expulsion from the country during their term if they opt to give up their child for adoption. In a controversial proposal for a so-called “support for maternity law,” the opposition party – led by Pablo Casado – has linked together issues of abortion, immigration and economic resources. The PP says that the law would not act as a “shield” for any female immigrants in an irregular situation, but that they would be expelled from the country after giving birth.


PP proposes delaying deportation of pregnant migrants who opt for adoption


----------



## xgarb

Alcalaina said:


> Spain's population is falling. Various solutions have been proposed by the right-wing PP leader Pablo Casado, including removing women's rights to prevent or terminate unwanted pregnancies. But this is a new one on me:
> 
> 
> 
> PP proposes delaying deportation of pregnant migrants who opt for adoption


He's claiming it's fake news and that people are mixing two things together. Pretty sure he would find himself in court if he tried to take babies from immigrants in return for letting them stay here up to point of giving birth.


----------



## silaeu

*Good and Nice new!*

Not all news have to be bad news! Here is a very good one for those who live in or plan to visit south Spain:


----------



## fortrose52

I read in the 'i' newspaper yesterday that Santiago Abascal, leader of VOX had an interview on a website specialising in weapons. He said that "the concept of legitimate defence needs to be widened in the country". He apparently said that those without criminal convictions should be allowed to have a firearm at home and use it to face "real life-threatening situations" without legal consequences. He has said in the past that he carries a handgun as he and his family were targets of ETA. He is a candidate in the forthcoming General Elections. Official statistics show that Spain's rates of murder and burglary are lower than most of its European neighbours.
Spain I weep for you.


----------



## 95995

fortrose52 said:


> I read in the 'i' newspaper yesterday that Santiago Abascal, leader of VOX had an interview on a website specialising in weapons. He said that "the concept of legitimate defence needs to be widened in the country". He apparently said that those without criminal convictions should be allowed to have a firearm at home and use it to face "real life-threatening situations" without legal consequences. He has said in the past that he carries a handgun as he and his family were targets of ETA. He is a candidate in the forthcoming General Elections. Official statistics show that Spain's rates of murder and burglary are lower than most of its European neighbours.
> Spain I weep for you.


He and VOX are of the extreme right so what would you expect? Being a candidate doesn't mean he will win the election.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

fortrose52 said:


> I read in the 'i' newspaper yesterday that Santiago Abascal, leader of VOX had an interview on a website specialising in weapons. He said that "the concept of legitimate defence needs to be widened in the country". He apparently said that those without criminal convictions should be allowed to have a firearm at home and use it to face "real life-threatening situations" without legal consequences. He has said in the past that he carries a handgun as he and his family were targets of ETA. He is a candidate in the forthcoming General Elections. Official statistics show that Spain's rates of murder and burglary are lower than most of its European neighbours.
> Spain I weep for you.


Just as New Zealand bans guns some idiot steps up and wants to introduce guns into homes in Spain. The world is going crazy, but in general Spain is way behind the UK, Germany etc in knife and gun crime and is in no rush to catch up.
Don't weep for Spain. Weep for other countries where crime involving weapons is rife. VOX are not going to get any legislation involving relaxing ownership of weapons through. 

More info in English here
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/21/inenglish/1553170075_849436.html


----------



## Alcalaina

Spain's other right-wing parties, PP and Ciudadanos, are now distancing themselves from Vox because they are losing support nationally after getting into bed with them in Andalucia. Don't know whether this is good news or bad news. Any views?

https://elpais.com/politica/2019/03/21/actualidad/1553193281_265166.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Spain's other right-wing parties, PP and Ciudadanos, are now distancing themselves from Vox because they are losing support nationally after getting into bed with them in Andalucia. Don't know whether this is good news or bad news. Any views?
> 
> https://elpais.com/politica/2019/03/21/actualidad/1553193281_265166.html


 It just makes it even more patent that current politics is not about politics. It's about how to show up your enemy. It's about marketing, not coming up with interesting or useful projects and policies. 

It's like trying to sell a pair of shoes by telling your clients how awful the other brands are, but not pointing out the good points of your product. The opposing party's shoes are shoddy, they're too expensive, they're not fashionable etc, but you don't extol the virtues of your shoes ( well made, good materials, economic, environmentally friendly...) in order to sell them. Just beat the others whoever they are in to the ground.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> It just makes it even more patent that current politics is not about politics. It's about how to show up your enemy. It's about marketing, not coming up with interesting or useful projects and policies.
> 
> It's like trying to sell a pair of shoes by telling your clients how awful the other brands are, but not pointing out the good points of your product. The opposing party's shoes are shoddy, they're too expensive, they're not fashionable etc, but you don't extol the virtues of your shoes ( well made, good materials, economic, environmentally friendly...) in order to sell them. Just beat the others whoever they are in to the ground.


In Spain I mean, don't know about other countries


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> It just makes it even more patent that current politics is not about politics. It's about how to show up your enemy. It's about marketing, not coming up with interesting or useful projects and policies.
> 
> It's like trying to sell a pair of shoes by telling your clients how awful the other brands are, but not pointing out the good points of your product. The opposing party's shoes are shoddy, they're too expensive, they're not fashionable etc, but you don't extol the virtues of your shoes ( well made, good materials, economic, environmentally friendly...) in order to sell them. Just beat the others whoever they are in to the ground.


Don't you think the policies promoted by the PSOE over the last few months are interesting and/or useful? Minimum wage, paternity leave, equal pay, housing policy, social security etc? All the stuff in the 2019 budget that the minority independence parties scuppered?

I am not electioneering (we can't vote anyway) but I wouldn't lump them together with PP or C's.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Don't you think the policies promoted by the PSOE over the last few months are interesting and/or useful? Minimum wage, paternity leave, equal pay, housing policy, social security etc? All the stuff in the 2019 budget that the minority independence parties scuppered?
> 
> I am not electioneering (we can't vote anyway) but I wouldn't lump them together with PP or C's.


 I agree that PSOE has come out with some interesting legislation in the last few months, and I'm glad that areas like these are being touched, but I think it was a mistake to rush things through as Real Decretos. I think it's true that Sánchez's position, coming to presidency as he did, he was never going to last, nothing to do with his policies or leadership, just because the other parties were out to get him.
But I think it's also important to note that the PSOE is not Sánchez, Casado is not the PP and Rivera is not Cuidadanos however much some leaders try to make it all about them.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree that PSOE has come out with some interesting legislation in the last few months, and I'm glad that areas like these are being touched, but I think it was a mistake to rush things through as Real Decretos. I think it's true that Sánchez's position, coming to presidency as he did, he was never going to last, nothing to do with his policies or leadership, just because the other parties were out to get him.
> But I think it's also important to note that the PSOE is not Sánchez, Casado is not the PP and Rivera is not Cuidadanos however much some leaders try to make it all about them.


Yes it had to be done in a rush because an early election was inevitable. What it did achieve was to put the ideas on the table and demonstrate the response of the other parties to these progressive proposals. 

Recently PSOE have risen sharply in the polls - but mainly because left-wingers from Podemos are returning to the fold.


----------



## Alcalaina

*Wolves return to Madrid after 70 years*

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/2...?id_externo_nwl=newsletter_inenglish20190322m



> In 2013, the Spanish conservation group Sierra Carpetania filmed two adult wolves, one young male and four wolf cubs inside the Guadarrama National Park. Wolves were once again breeding in the Madrid region after being hunted across the country and virtually disappearing for 70 years.
> 
> Now, five years after that sighting, there are “at least five established packs, and that is a conservative figure. The number of specimens ranges between 35 and 40,” says Luis del Olmo, the Madrid regional environment and sustainability chief, citing figures from the latest study commissioned by the Madrid regional government.


I wish they would do the same down here. An elderly lady told me once that she remembered hearing them howl in the hills behind the town when she was a child.


----------



## Megsmum




----------



## Isobella

Thanks for that, very interesting.


----------



## Megsmum

Isobella said:


> Thanks for that, very interesting.


I thought so too. It’s a hard one though, the thought of hearing wolves howling gives me thrill BUT the thought of protecting goats etc from them is a different story. 

On balance I’d rather hear them than not. Man V Nature. I’m pretty sure eventually, long after I’m gone, nature will win out....


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Yes it had to be done in a rush because an early election was inevitable. What it did achieve was to put the ideas on the table and demonstrate the response of the other parties to these progressive proposals.


That is true, but unfortunately I am a little suspicious of Pedro Sánchez,. Perhaps my perception has been clouded by the anti Sánchez campaigning, I don't know. He seems like a "good guy", but...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Interesting video, just over 5 mins, talks about the Moorish legacy in Spain and also Vox





DW news has lots of interesting videos


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Drug use detected in waste waters in European cities. London does not take part in the annual study
Wastewater analysis and drugs — a European multi-city study | www.emcdda.europa.eu


----------



## Pesky Wesky

For Spanish speakers...
Interesting clip (under 2 mins) of a Spanish man of more than 50 who found it impossible to get a job in Spain and who went to the UK because a Spanish friend living there told him "vente a Londres que aquí esas cosas no las miran"
And it's true. It's something that stands out to me when I go back. I seea lot of older people working. My sister was looking for work at 55 and found something. In Spain she wouldn't have had a chance in Spain.
https://20033.mc.tritondigital.com/...=PRISA_ES_CADENASER_WEB_DOWNLOAD&csegid=22000


----------



## nigele2

Pesky Wesky said:


> .............. My sister was looking for work at 55 and found something. In Spain she wouldn't have had a chance...………...


My Spanish sister-in-law (early 50s) in Madrid, after years of unemployment, was put on a one-month course “helping people with tax returns”. If she passes the final exam today she might be offered a 3 month contract. The odds based on number of people on the course, some already qualified!!!, looks bleak. But she’ll snatch at any straw.

However, she has now received a demand from the unemployment people, that today she attends an interview to be a baggage handler at the airport – a job she is very unsuited for. She explained that she had been on a course for a month and had the final exam today. She has been told non-attendance at the airport will count against her and restrict future opportunities. Just the stress she needs before an exam.

The only good news for her is that an election normally gives her 3 days work helping with the count. That’s been her only employment in 10 years apart from a one month trial (joke) with Amazon.


----------



## kaipa

These stories should be placed for Brits believing that by saying " I will do any kind of job even cleaning toilets..." means that they will be able to find work. It really is incredibly hard to get work here. I am lucky being a teacher but my work is hard and I need a lot of experience and qualifications to be able to do it ( degree plus DELTA plus nearly 20 years teaching plus spanish) for this I get 11 Euros an hour contact. If I didn't have savings and rent from UK I wouldn't survive here. My friend teaches for 7 Euros an hour!!! That's ridiculous given you can't get a contract with much more than 20 hours a week and only nine months work.


----------



## kaipa

Brexit will be tough on young Spanish ( or not so young) meaning they can't work in UK. This guy is so positive and yet to think he could have faced years of unemployment in Spain is absolute terrible. What a terrible waste of talent. It really is shameful not to mention so debilitating for a country. The UK has so much work opportunities for people like these which UK people either don't want or in many cases are not qualified to do. Both economies will suffer. How stupid


----------



## Juan C

Am I wrong. 

I thought that even with a no deal Brexit anyone from anywhere in the world will be able to apply for a work visa. Just like non EU nationals do now ?


----------



## Alcalaina

Juan C said:


> Am I wrong.
> 
> I thought that even with a no deal Brexit anyone from anywhere in the world will be able to apply for a work visa. Just like non EU nationals do now ?


Don't they have to prove that they already have a job offer and that no EU national can do the job? Not sure, not an expert on these things but it's mot straghtforward.


----------



## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> I thought so too. It’s a hard one though, the thought of hearing wolves howling gives me thrill BUT the thought of protecting goats etc from them is a different story.
> 
> On balance I’d rather hear them than not. Man V Nature. I’m pretty sure eventually, long after I’m gone, nature will win out....


Just heard PP leader Pablo Casado being interviewed by some schoolchildren. One of them asked him why they couldn't keep down the numbers of deer etc in national parks by reintroducing wolves and other natural predators, who hunt for food, rather than letting people shoot them and stick their heads on the wall. Casado tried to convince the kids that hunting is good for wild animals because it stops them getting sick!

Casado defiende la caza ante los niños en AR: "Es para que los animalitos no se pongan enfermos"


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Don't they have to prove that they already have a job offer and that no EU national can do the job? Not sure, not an expert on these things but it's mot straghtforward.


 Yes, you have to have a job offer to come to and apply for a work visa from your home country and as far as I know the company has to prove that no EU national can do that job, all of which takes time and money,of course


----------



## Juan C

But weren’t we taking about if U.K. leave the EU. 

In that case won’t EU nationals be treated equally along with nationals of all countries, so anyone who can do the job could be offered a contact 

It would seem that U.K. will need the same number of overseas workers as now, they will just be able to choose the best people for the job and not be forced to give priority to EU nationals 

Or do I misunderstand ?


----------



## nigele2

Gerard Pique plays for Catalonia in friendly against Venezuela (25/3). It is Pique's 10th cap for the region

Catalonia won 2-1.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Juan C said:


> But weren’t we taking about if U.K. leave the EU.
> 
> In that case won’t EU nationals be treated equally along with nationals of all countries, so anyone who can do the job could be offered a contact
> 
> It would seem that U.K. will need the same number of overseas workers as now, they will just be able to choose the best people for the job and not be forced to give priority to EU nationals
> 
> Or do I misunderstand ?


This information is from the point of view of someone from the UK looking for work in Spain.

If Britain leaves, the UK British people working in Spain will have to follow the rules that NON EU nationals do so they will need


A job to go to ie you won't be able to come here, look for a job and get contracted
A visa
The visa needs to be applied for in the country of origin, not here
The employer must prove that no EU national can do this job
What will happen in the UK I don't know


----------



## Juan C

Pesky Wesky said:


> [
> This information is from the point of view of someone from the UK looking for work in Spain.
> 
> If Britain leaves the UK British people working in Spain will have to follow the rules that NON EU nationals do so they will need
> 
> 
> A job to go to ie you won't be able to come here, look for a job and get contracted
> A visa
> The visa needs to be applied for in the country of origin, not here
> The employer must prove that no EU national can do this job
> What will happen in the UK I don't know


So EU nationals will get priority for jobs in the EU. And the equivalent in the U.K. That seems reasonable


----------



## Alcalaina

nigele2 said:


> Gerard Pique plays for Catalonia in friendly against Venezuela (25/3). It is Pique's 10th cap for the region
> 
> Catalonia won 2-1.


I bet it was more exciting than Spain vs Malta.


----------



## Gran Erry-Bredd

Pesky Wesky…..I don't think Britain will be leaving the UK.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> Pesky Wesky…..I don't think Britain will be leaving the UK.


OOOps! No, not likely!


----------



## baldilocks

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> Pesky Wesky…..I don't think Britain will be leaving the UK.


For those who don't get, it see post 306


----------



## jimenato

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> Pesky Wesky…..I don't think Britain will be leaving the UK.


Actually, I think that is a distinct possibility.


----------



## nigele2

Spanish News but I wonder how many Spaniards saw it? It is in English. Video half way down.
:clock:Borrell Interview


----------



## Isobella

What's the score with the election,(Spanish that is) I have read two polls that say Sanchez could be on his way to a majority. Anyone any idea?


----------



## nigele2

Isobella said:


> What's the score with the election,(Spanish that is) I have read two polls that say Sanchez could be on his way to a majority. Anyone any idea?


Have a look at the graphs here 2019_Spanish_general_election

Isobella presumably the majority you mention would be a PSOE+Podemos+Regionals majority. But it depends on PSOE attracting quite a few more Ciudadanos and/or undecided voters. 

However a rift between VOX, and PP/Ciudadanos could weaken the right. Wouldn't lead to a left majority but would rather leave the right in disarray.

Difficult to predict at the moment. However still time for someone or something to make a difference. Fascinating and I'm sure will run to voting day


----------



## Alcalaina

nigele2 said:


> Have a look at the graphs here 2019_Spanish_general_election
> 
> Isobella presumably the majority you mention would be a PSOE+Podemos+Regionals majority. But it depends on PSOE attracting quite a few more Ciudadanos and/or undecided voters.
> 
> However a rift between VOX, and PP/Ciudadanos could weaken the right. Wouldn't lead to a left majority but would rather leave the right in disarray.
> 
> Difficult to predict at the moment. However still time for someone or something to make a difference. Fascinating and I'm sure will run to voting day


We were discussing this earlier on this thread. Probably needs a thread of its own, given its significance to all of us living in Spain. Perhaps a Mod could organise?


----------



## Isobella

Alcalaina said:


> We were discussing this earlier on this thread. Probably needs a thread of its own, given its significance to all of us living in Spain. Perhaps a Mod could organise?


Great idea. Won't be contributing as I read things but struggle make sense of it. . Nigele's post interesting, made more sense than what i have been reading in the papers.


----------



## xabiaxica

Gran Erry-Bredd said:


> Pesky Wesky…..I don't think Britain will be leaving the UK.





jimenato said:


> Actually, I think that is a distinct possibility.


Funnily enough on the questionnaire about the hospital food, I put my place of origin as RD instead of RU. With a short explanation of course!


I bet some of you can work out what that was


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> We were discussing this earlier on this thread. Probably needs a thread of its own, given its significance to all of us living in Spain. Perhaps a Mod could organise?


I'll have a look over the weekend


----------



## Isobella

Read this article in El Pais. Mentions number of workers on open ended contracts. What are they ?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/04/25/inenglish/1556206734_666520.html


----------



## 95995

Isobella said:


> Read this article in El Pais. Mentions number of workers on open ended contracts. What are they ?
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/04/25/inenglish/1556206734_666520.html


They are ongoing (permanent), as opposed to temporary, employment contracts.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Spanish police are planning a safer summer ahead. In the past ETA would usually set a bomb off during the Spanish summer. Now police are trying to defend Spain from ISIS and similar

https://www.larazon.es/espana/inter...00-agentes-para-prevenir-atentados-IO23788404
This is the information given by the foreign office
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/spain/terrorism


----------



## Mitch

*Importance of domiciloe classes*

Hi guys, I am Mitch and, as an English professor, I can understand the importance of English classes! I post here some news about the big advantages tat domicile classes have and the importance of a more detailed education to young students.
/SNIP/


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Mitch said:


> Hi guys, I am Mitch and, as an English professor, I can understand the importance of English classes! I post here some news about the big advantages tat domicile classes have and the importance of a more detailed education to young students.
> /SNIP/


Hmm, lot of errors in that post Mitch considering you're an English "professor"!


----------



## Juan C

Professor. 

Maybe in the Spanish sense. A person who teaches basic english !


----------



## Alcalaina

_Profesor de inglés_ is definitely not a "Professor of English". In some regions they only need B2 English to work in schools - they teach to the book.


----------



## Overandout

So, back to Spanish news...

Or Catalan to be precise:

Ada Colau makes her first decision as renewed mayoress of Barcelona... to put the yellow ribbon in support of political prisoners back on the balcony of the town hall.

Good idea? Bad idea?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Overandout said:


> So, back to Spanish news...
> 
> Or Catalan to be precise:
> 
> Ada Colau makes her first decision as renewed mayoress of Barcelona... to put the yellow ribbon in support of political prisoners back on the balcony of the town hall.
> 
> Good idea? Bad idea?


I think she'd be digging her own grave if she didn't!


----------



## mrypg9

Juan C said:


> Professor.
> 
> Maybe in the Spanish sense. A person who teaches basic english !


Wen I lived in Prague it seemed that every other English person who simply wanted beer money was a 'teacher' of English. Adverts were pinned on every tree and lamppost. The only qualification appeared to be the ability to speak English, of a kind, if the young man I chatted to one day was a yardstick.

The word 'profess' as a verb has the meaning to claim, to pass as, as in 'he professes to be a teacher of English'.

Does Spain have the equivalent of a Trades Description Act, I wonder.....


----------



## mrypg9

The separatists who fled to Belgium are keeping some rather dubious company. Their main supporters are a hard right Flemish nationalist movement that some would describe as neo-fascist.


----------



## Overandout

I think that they should show more neutrality.

Later the left criticise the right for hanging "nationalist" flags from balconies...

To me this is little more than inciting conflict and animosity.

What would be the reaction if a right wing town hall were to hang political messages from the facade of a town hall? Like "immigrants go home" for example.

It may be in line with their politics, but does that make it right to display symbols of this type?

I think not personally.


----------



## Alcalaina

This is pretty scary IMO, more so than yellow ribbons.

https://www.eldiario.es/aragon/politica/Retiran-Cadrete-Zaragoza-Abderraman-III_0_911309214.html

The mayor of a town in Zaragoza, from the far-right Vox party, has ordered the removal of a public statue of Abderramán III, a caliph from the Moorish era, who built a castle there hundreds of years ago. He claims he only wants symbols that all the inhabitants of the town can identify with.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> This is pretty scary IMO, more so than yellow ribbons.
> 
> https://www.eldiario.es/aragon/politica/Retiran-Cadrete-Zaragoza-Abderraman-III_0_911309214.html
> 
> The mayor of a town in Zaragoza, from the far-right Vox party, has ordered the removal of a public statue of Abderramán III, a caliph from the Moorish era, who built a castle there hundreds of years ago. He claims he only wants symbols that all the inhabitants of the town can identify with.


Hmmm, I wonder what he'd do with the Alhambra if he were mayor of Granada


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmmm, I wonder what he'd do with the Alhambra if he were mayor of Granada


Keep it for the tourist revenue I expect. The whole of Granada is a shrine to Catholicism. If you do the official tour you'd never know it had been under Islamic rule for 800 years.


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Keep it for the tourist revenue I expect. The whole of Granada is a shrine to Catholicism
> 
> What do you expect? Spain is nominally a Catholic country..
> 
> 
> 
> Icf you do the official tour you'd never know it had been under Islamic rule for 800 years.


Well, it’s been in Spanish hands for nigh on fifteen hundred years.

To go back to my previous post, it seems the Flemish Nationalist Party currently looking after fugitive Piugdemont has joined the group in the European Parliament which includes Vox. All jolly nationalists together..


----------



## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Well, it’s been in Spanish hands for nigh on fifteen hundred years.


Your arithmetic is a bit shaky. Granada was surrendered to the Catholics in 1482, it's now 2019... And Spain as a country hasn't existed that long.

I would expect a civilised country to acknowledge the contribution of all its previous rulers, not just the current ones. Nobody is suggesting removing statues of Roman emperors!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Your arithmetic is a bit shaky. Granada was surrendered to the Catholics in 1482, it's now 2019... And Spain as a country hasn't existed that long.
> 
> I would expect a civilised country to acknowledge the contribution of all its previous rulers, not just the current ones. Nobody is suggesting removing statues of Roman emperors!


But they did get rid of Franco and his team in much of Spain under the socialists, didn't they?


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Well, it’s been in Spanish hands for nigh on fifteen hundred years.
> 
> To go back to my previous post, it seems the Flemish Nationalist Party currently looking after fugitive Piugdemont has joined the group in the European Parliament which includes Vox. All jolly nationalists together..


Your maths is getting terrible. 1492 to 2019 is only 527 years.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> But they did get rid of Franco and his team in much of Spain under the socialists, didn't they?


Not really. Franco died in 1975 but his "team" remained firmly in place even after the transition. The military, the Guardia Civil, the judiciary, Catholic church, the monarchy, and many civil servants at all levels contined in place. There was no "shake-out" of people who retained francoist values, because the country would have fallen into chaos. Instead we had the Olvido where nobody was allowed to talk about the past. And he is still there in the Valley of the Fallen, maintained at public expense. Moreover the Supreme Court have just decreed that his presidency or whatever you call it commenced in October 1936, even though the civil war didn't end till two years later.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Not really. Franco died in 1975 but his "team" remained firmly in place even after the transition. The military, the Guardia Civil, the judiciary, Catholic church, the monarchy, and many civil servants at all levels contined in place. There was no "shake-out" of people who retained francoist values, because the country would have fallen into chaos. Instead we had the Olvido where nobody was allowed to talk about the past. And he is still there in the Valley of the Fallen, maintained at public expense. Moreover the Supreme Court have just decreed that his presidency or whatever you call it commenced in October 1936, even though the civil war didn't end till two years later.


I was talking about getting rid of statues, changing street names etc under Zapatero, much as the Vox mayor in your previous post is doing with a Muslim leader...


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Not really. Franco died in 1975 but his "team" remained firmly in place even after the transition. The military, the Guardia Civil, the judiciary, Catholic church, the monarchy, and many civil servants at all levels contined in place. There was no "shake-out" of people who retained francoist values, because the country would have fallen into chaos. Instead we had the Olvido where nobody was allowed to talk about the past. And he is still there in the Valley of the Fallen, maintained at public expense. Moreover the Supreme Court have just decreed that his presidency or whatever you call it commenced in October 1936, even though the civil war didn't end till two years later.


Yes, my maths is terrible I got an O Level in Latin, Ancient Greek, French, German, History and other 'art' subjects but never took an O level in Maths. (Or Art). Shameful, really, but I had wht was then thought of as an excellent education....

I think that may people in Spain retain 'Francoist values'. After all, the war was a civil war and Franco had the support of a large proportion of the people. His inheritance Party, the PP, managed to win elections even with the taint of Franco attached. Many times I've been told by older people and people not so old that things were better in Franco's time, you didn't have to lock your doors and so on and so forth. I'm sure there are people who say the same about the Nazis in Germany and the fascists in Italy.

Many people enjoy 'strong' government and don't care about the erosion of civil liberty. If there was a referendum about bringing back hanging and deporting immigrants in the UK it would probably be voted for. There is a strong current of small and not so small c conservatism in all countries, it seems. You and I might view the current ascendency of the ludicrous Brexit Party and the almost certainty that the buffoon Johnson could soon be the British Prime Minister with horror and amazement but like Le Pen in France, AfD in Germany, Parties of the extreme or imbecile right will always have a solid core following which increases in troubled times.

Be thankful we here have a PSOE Government which may not be radical enough for some but which is better than and most importantly commands more support than any of the other lot.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> La manada (group of men who raped a young woman in Pamplona, I think 2 years ago. Manada = pack) in the news again, twice.
> 
> First it seems that one of the members of this gang tried to renew his passport and was refused as they are not allowed to leave the country. This was the Guardia Civil who obviously thought his fellow protectors of the law were not up to much...
> And unfortunately there is another Manada in the Canaries. And before anyone says bad taste media, they themselves named their group La Manada...
> Detenidos cuatro hombres y un menor por violar y grabar a una menor en Gran Canaria
> 
> https://politica.elpais.com/politica/2018/06/27/actualidad/1530090089_125272.html


At last. 15 years in prison for them

https://cadenaser.com/ser/2019/06/21/tribunales/1561122971_711253.html?fbclid=IwAR0BMpUoGSR5OCG0fUhFomfSyZ61M2Y6ucXgpT1y0Fnzl60HqZxVcR4biw8


----------



## Pesky Wesky

A British born architect, along with his Spanish partner has won the tender for 3 of the 8 stadiums to be built in Quatar for the world cup.



> It will be the first ever demountable, transportable and reusable stadium in the World & the third stadium FIA has developed for the Qatar 2022 World Cup. The stadium has a capacity of 40.000 y and its structure is based on shipping containers which can be easily assembled or disassembled as required
> Following the World cup, the stadium can be dismantled by section or in parts and be transported to other host cities for the next World Cup, helping make it more sustainable and financially viable for other countries.
> 
> 
> ; }


http://www.fenwickiribarren.com/en/proyecto/rasabuaboud.html#


Interview in Spanish here "El primer estadio desmotable..."
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/audios/...primer-estadio-desmontable-del-mundo/5343380/


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*The world’s biggest accessible geode opens in southern Spain*

*Reduced groups will be able to view the giant gypsum crystals that were discovered 20 years ago in Pulpí, Almería*




https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/30/inenglish/1564499931_206119.html


----------



## Alcalaina

This week the government published the names of Spanish citizens who died in Nazi concentration camps during WW2. They were mainly Republicans and their families who had fled across the border to France during the Spanish Civil War. When France was occupied by Germany in 1939, Franco made an agreement with Marshal Pétain that they should be transferred to Austria and used as slave labour. In all, nearly 10,000 Spaniards were taken - only half of them survived the ordeal.

Remembering the 4,427 Spaniards who died at the Mauthausen concentration camp


----------



## mrypg9

Not Spanish news as such I know but in under three weeks time, Tuesday September 3rd, will see the eightieth anniversary of Britain’s declaration of war on Germany.
Probably not enough interest for a separate thread but I thought it worth mentioning.
It had a huge impact on my childhood.


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Not Spanish news as such I know but in under three weeks time, Tuesday September 3rd, will see the eightieth anniversary of Britain’s declaration of war on Germany.
> Probably not enough interest for a separate thread but I thought it worth mentioning.
> It had a huge impact on my childhood.


and mine!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This story has really made an impression on me. It kind of challenges ideas on what people are and are not capable of doing.
The story is about a woman who has a recognised mental discapacity (not sure if that is an accepted modern day way of expressing this) of 33% - and yet, despite this she has two masters, speaks English, has passed the civil servant teachers exam and has started work in a secondary school. Amazing.



Rocío Guadalupe, primera maestra con discapacidad intelectual: "Mi madre siempre me ha exigido con amor"


----------



## Pesky Wesky

News about how the Thomas Cook collapse affects Spain


> News of the rescue comes as the head of the Spanish hotel federation has warned that 500 hotels could close “immediately” due to the collapse of the tour operator.
> Juan Molas, head of Spain’s Confederation of Hotels and Tourist Accommodation, told business daily _Cinco Dias_ that “the situation could get worse if the government doesn’t take immediate action”.
> One in five of the hotels were exclusively dependent on the British tour operator, he said, while the rest counted around 70 per cent of their guests as Thomas Cook clients.


https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...ment-tourism-rescue-plan-hotels-a9142866.html


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...stry-300m-after-thomas-cook-failure-v732ps0js


https://www.thelocal.es/20191002/thomas-cook-collapse-which-parts-of-spain-will-suffer-the-most


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> I live in hope, but I doubt this will ever happen.
> 
> And to be honest the re-emergence of the far right in Spain today worries me much more than what happens to the bones of a long-gone dictator.


 It's (exhumation of Franco) due to happen next week... Let's see if it actually goes through


> The government wants the transfer to take place before the repeat general election of November 10. If that happens, this year there will be no traditional tribute to Franco on November 20, the anniversary of his death, at least not at the Valley of the Fallen.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/10/08/inenglish/1570519093_081102.html


----------



## Nomoss

Pesky Wesky said:


> News about how the Thomas Cook collapse affects Spain ..................................One in five of the hotels were exclusively dependent on the British tour operator, he said, while the rest counted around 70 per cent of their guests as Thomas Cook clients.



They should know the phrase about not putting all one's eggs in one basket.

Its first recorded use was apparently in Spain - in the novel "Don Quixote"


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Newsflash!!
Unidos Podemos and PSOE have signed a pre agreement. After getting nowhere in negotiations in April after the previous elections they have, in less than 48 hours (taking the PP and VOX totally by surprise), made a pre agreement covering all sorts of areas including betting shops, climate change, women's rights, unemployment..


They were full of praise for each other, both recognising the generosity of the other.


True, this agreement needs the support of other parties in order to make in viable and it's also true that they well may end up hurling insults again after a few weeks, but it's a start. Talking is better than not talking.


It seems the rise of Vox has spurred them into action.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This from a couple of weeks ago
Briton Audrey Schoeman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest


> A British woman whose heart stopped beating for six hours has been brought back to life in what doctors have described as an "exceptional case".
> Audrey Schoeman developed severe hypothermia when she was caught in a snowstorm while hiking in the Spanish Pyrenees with her husband in November.
> Doctors say it is the longest cardiac arrest ever recorded in Spain.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Places in the Balearic Islands like Magaluf have banned happy hours and publicity for pub crawls among other things


> The regional government in the Balearic islands has passed a bill aimed at clamping down on alcohol-fuelled holidays.
> The law bans happy hours, free bars and two-for-one drinks parties and makes it illegal to advertise pub crawls. There will be no new licences for party boats and existing boats are banned from operating in designated areas.
> Shops selling alcohol that stay open all night will have to close between 9.30pm and 8am or risk fines of up to €600,000 (£511,000) or the threat of being closed down for three years.




https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/17/balearic-islands-bill-alcohol-fuelled-holidays


Same story in Spanish press
https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/17/inenglish/1579266422_795608.html


----------



## Isobella

Pesky Wesky said:


> Places in the Balearic Islands like Magaluf have banned happy hours and publicity for pub crawls among other things
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/17/balearic-islands-bill-alcohol-fuelled-holidays
> 
> 
> Same story in Spanish press
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/17/inenglish/1579266422_795608.html


Read an article about this. TUI the big tour company states that it applies to all inclusive hotels. Guests will be limited to 6 drinks per day. Not very good for bars that don't open until around 9pm. either.

Can't see how it can be policed. In my Nan's village one pub was only licenced to sell beer. There was a little detour with sofas on the way to the lavatories


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Terrible weather in Spain due to storm Gloria
*Storm Gloria: Spain death toll rises to 13 with four missing*

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51231064


----------



## tebo53

That's a terrible news report about Storm Gloria and deaths caused by it. Friends of mine in the UK think it's hot and sunny here in Benidorm all year round. Even the UK government stopped paying the cold weather payment to old age pensioners because "it's warm in Spain". Since we've lived here we've had many periods of high blustery winds, several Gota Frias, loads of times when it's to cold even for Brass Monkeys!! But having had my grumble I still love it here and wouldn't go back to miserable old UK 

Steve


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## Pesky Wesky

tebo53 said:


> That's a terrible news report about Storm Gloria and deaths caused by it. Friends of mine in the UK think it's hot and sunny here in Benidorm all year round. Even the UK government stopped paying the cold weather payment to old age pensioners because "it's warm in Spain". Since we've lived here we've had many periods of high blustery winds, several Gota Frias, loads of times when it's to cold even for Brass Monkeys!! But having had my grumble I still love it here and wouldn't go back to miserable old UK
> 
> Steve


 Yes, I tend to post things like this just so people have a chance to see what Spain is really like. Bad weather does happen, not to the extent of places more northern countries, but it's not wall to wall sunshine, which I personally wouldn't want anyway. Today is a crisp day with views of snow on the mountains in the distance, blue sky and sunny but not warm. Lovely!
Not a great photo, but it was nice walking down to get the bread accompanied by these views


----------



## baldilocks

tebo53 said:


> That's a terrible news report about Storm Gloria and deaths caused by it. Friends of mine in the UK think it's hot and sunny here in Benidorm all year round. Even the UK government stopped paying the cold weather payment to old age pensioners because "it's warm in Spain". Since we've lived here we've had many periods of high blustery winds, several Gota Frias, loads of times when it's to cold even for Brass Monkeys!! But having had my grumble *I still love it here and wouldn't go back to miserable old UK *
> 
> Steve


Yep, cheerful cold Spain is far better.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

You may have encountered problems on roads in the last few weeks due to farmer's protests
https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/18/why-are-spanish-farmers-protesting-against-low-prices


----------



## xabiaxica

The coronavirus now has its own thread in La Tasca


----------



## Williams2

baldilocks said:


> Yep, cheerful cold Spain is far better.


And Asturias still enjoys the same seasons as those enjoyed by people living in the UK.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

3000 jobs to go in Barcelona area
https://www.spainenglish.com/2020/05/28/nissan-close-barcelona-catalonia/


----------



## kaipa

Pesky Wesky said:


> 3000 jobs to go in Barcelona area
> https://www.spainenglish.com/2020/05/28/nissan-close-barcelona-catalonia/


They say indirectly it will affect over 20 000 jobs overall.!!!


----------



## 95995

kaipa said:


> They say indirectly it will affect over 20 000 jobs overall.!!!


Perhaps more people will now understand the impacts (both known and not yet known) of the crisis on Spain.

Breaks my heart.


----------



## Overandout

This is going to be a tough one for Sanchez to defend...


----------



## Juan C

Appears moving production to UK goes against the anti Brexit thinking.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> 3000 jobs to go in Barcelona area
> https://www.spainenglish.com/2020/05/28/nissan-close-barcelona-catalonia/


Yes, it will have massive repercussions for the area but it's been on the cards for a few years. They made a deal in 2019 to invest €70m in the Barcelona plant in exchange for being able to sack 600 workers, but did not do so.

Over the years Nissan have received €1,200,000,000 in grants and concessions from Spain to provide jobs here, but that counts for nothing. That's multinational capitalism for you. It would have been cheaper and probably more sustainable in the long run to give the money to the workers to start up their own businesses.

https://www.publico.es/economia/nis...bido-1200-millones-euros-ayudas-publicas.html


----------



## 95995

Overandout said:


> This is going to be a tough one for Sanchez to defend...


Not sure about that, given Japan's major issues with Carlos Ghosn, the shunting off of European activities to Renault (the Renault-Nissan alliance), the fact that Renault currently has major problems and, in order to have a massive loan guaranteed by the French State has now issued an outline of its plans, which include centring its manufacturing in France (although jobs and sites in France will be reduced). Given the timeline, and the fact that the most significant changes have happened in the last week or so, I think its pretty hard to expect Sanchez to carry the can. But then I guess most people won't get their heads around all that.


----------



## xgarb

It's connected to the brands that Nissan is part of and how they are splitting the business into zones. Also they had already started plans for the CashCow or however it's pronounced in Sunderland. 

Car sales are another credit fuelled bubble. The used market will collapse because there are so many new cars being 'sold' that there will be a glut of nearly new in perfect condition. The end of lease value will be so low that the finance company (normally the manufacturer) will be left with a loss unless they start crushing perfectly good cars.


----------



## Isobella

Probably be a lot more bad news in the car industry in the coming months, all over the world.


----------



## kaipa

Yes Nissan has received alot of money from Spain and this is a huge blow to the region
In normal times this would be a massive announcement with extreme reactions. However, in the current climate it gets judged under the effects of the pandemic and Nissan gets away with it. I think this is another example how the capitalist system just shouldn't be allowed. Many companies and corporations are using the present crisis to justify restructuring their operations claiming it is about survival when in fact it is really about preserving profit levels. With most of Europe essentially being governed under socialistic principles at present it's time people realised the fairness of state intervention in the market place if only to prevent a second Great Depression.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, it will have massive repercussions for the area but it's been on the cards for a few years. They made a deal in 2019 to invest €70m in the Barcelona plant in exchange for being able to sack 600 workers, but did not do so.
> 
> Over the years Nissan have received €1,200,000,000 in grants and concessions from Spain to provide jobs here, but that counts for nothing. That's multinational capitalism for you. It would have been cheaper and probably more sustainable in the long run to give the money to the workers to start up their own businesses.
> 
> https://www.publico.es/economia/nis...bido-1200-millones-euros-ayudas-publicas.html


 As far as I can make out and as you say, it's not directly linked to Covid 19 and as someone else said it would have been bad news at any time, but now, it's driving a nail into a coffin in that area.
Employment news in most areas/ fields is not going to be positive for the next few years I feel...


----------



## Overandout

EverHopeful said:


> Not sure about that, given Japan's major issues with Carlos Ghosn, the shunting off of European activities to Renault (the Renault-Nissan alliance), the fact that Renault currently has major problems and, in order to have a massive loan guaranteed by the French State has now issued an outline of its plans, which include centring its manufacturing in France (although jobs and sites in France will be reduced). Given the timeline, and the fact that the most significant changes have happened in the last week or so, I think its pretty hard to expect Sanchez to carry the can. *But then I guess most people won't get their heads around all that*.


That's the point though isn't it?

I can't see Abascal and Casado saying "well, never mind Pedro, you did your best".
The knives are being sharpened as we speak.


----------



## 95995

Overandout said:


> That's the point though isn't it?
> 
> I can't see Abascal and Casado saying "well, never mind Pedro, you did your best".
> The knives are being sharpened as we speak.


Yes, but that is also the point, isn't it, because so many people will not get their heads around it and that not only increases opportunities to bring Sanchez down, but also increases opposition support. At the same time, difficult for Sanchez to explain to his own supporters.


----------



## Alcalaina

Spain approves guaranteed minimum income scheme for vulnerable families

A step in the right direction to reduce hardship? Or giving lazy [email protected] the means to sit around scratching their balls all day, as one of my neighbours suggested?


----------



## Isobella

Pesky Wesky said:


> As far as I can make out and as you say, it's not directly linked to Covid 19 and as someone else said it would have been bad news at any time, but now, it's driving a nail into a coffin in that area.
> Employment news in most areas/ fields is not going to be positive for the next few years I feel...


Renault are making 4800 workers redundant to most of them in France. We are in for a rough ride.


----------



## xgarb

Alcalaina said:


> Spain approves guaranteed minimum income scheme for vulnerable families
> 
> A step in the right direction to reduce hardship? Or giving lazy [email protected] the means to sit around scratching their balls all day, as one of my neighbours suggested?


Or preventing people scaling the walls of his house to steal his food because they are starving to death.

During the next 50 years there will be another another industrial revolution where automation and AI will be taking huge numbers of jobs. Most people are going to have to get used to having less work and less money but a lot more leisure time.

If people aren't employable or happy to live at subsistence level for long periods of time they will need government support otherwise they will be stealing to live or rioting.


----------



## kaipa

I think the new law for minimum assistance is good. It is terrible seeing people emptying the green bins every night looking for food. Where I live they sit on the pavement waiting for Spar to throw out the food that hasn't been sold. Sometimes I see families waiting just to get old fruit and vegetables. It is not a nice thing to witness in the 21st century in a European country. Hats off to Pablo Inglesias for bringing spain forward.


----------



## 95995

Isobella said:


> Renault are making 4800 workers redundant to most of them in France. We are in for a rough ride.


Correction, Renault is getting rid of 15,000 positions around the world, of which 4,600 (close to one third) are positions in France. Staff at the Maubeuge plant have been on strike since yesterday morning (not least because they heard about the closure of that plant via the media, though of course absolutely about the jobs and the closure of a facility that is up to date and productive) - they have the support of a broad range of politicians and others.


----------



## 95995

Alcalaina said:


> Spain approves guaranteed minimum income scheme for vulnerable families
> 
> A step in the right direction to reduce hardship? Or giving lazy [email protected] the means to sit around scratching their balls all day, as one of my neighbours suggested?


IMO very much a step in the right direction. I don't tolerate generic characterisations such as that made by your neighbours, especially when so many are in dire straits (perhaps your neighbours should give their situation a try for a month or so )..


----------



## davexf

xgarb said:


> Or preventing people scaling the walls of his house to steal his food because they are starving to death.
> 
> During the next 50 years there will be another another industrial revolution where automation and AI will be taking huge numbers of jobs. Most people are going to have to get used to having less work and less money but a lot more leisure time.
> 
> If people aren't employable or happy to live at subsistence level for long periods of time they will need government support otherwise they will be stealing to live or rioting.


Hola 

In my area, the "bin rakers" work overtime to find items that can bring them money; totally illegal of course; what you put in the bin belongs to the Ayuntamiento but people need to do it to survive. 

Further, there is an increase in burglaries for the same reasons. Whilst it is good in some ways, the moment that it can become "an easy life" is when the amount of money needs to be looked at. 

I believe that anyone receiving money from the state should make themselves available for work for the Ayuntamiento; so giving them some dignity as in working for the money albeit the level of subsistence is the governing factor 

Davexf


----------



## kaipa

This money is for the most vulnerable families. It is designed to give dignity to us as a country that is ostensibly rich and should protect those less fortunate.


----------



## Alcalaina

EverHopeful said:


> IMO very much a step in the right direction. I don't tolerate generic characterisations such as that made by your neighbours, especially when so many are in dire straits (perhaps your neighbours should give their situation a try for a month or so )..


There's a handful of women in the village who get get these right-wing memes on Whatsapp or Facebook and swallow them hook line and sinker. Only a few, and they aren't well off by any means. Their rationale is "why should I work my butt off for €1,000 a month when I could stay at home and get a government handout of €1100". They don't know the facts, and don't want to. The renta basica is just €460 for a single person with no job or other assets. I feel like asking them what these people should do when there is 30% unemployment - beg for alms on the street or die of hunger?


----------



## kaipa

Alcalaina said:


> EverHopeful said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMO very much a step in the right direction. I don't tolerate generic characterisations such as that made by your neighbours, especially when so many are in dire straits (perhaps your neighbours should give their situation a try for a month or so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )..
> 
> 
> 
> There's a handful of women in the village who get get these right-wing memes on Whatsapp or Facebook and swallow them hook line and sinker. Only a few, and they aren't well off by any means. Their rationale is "why should I work my butt off for €1,000 a month when I could stay at home and get a government handout of €1100". They don't know the facts, and don't want to. The renta basica is just €460 for a single person with no job or other assets. I feel like asking them what these people should do when there is 30% unemployment - beg for alms on the street or die of hunger?
Click to expand...

Also the amount you receive is very dependent on each situation. And it is true that all assests have to be declared. This is not the dole. You have to register but depending on your circumstances you might not have to be actively looking for work . Victims of abuse can be eligible. No doubt we are about to get expats rushing to various websites claiming that the system should be available to them ( which it is) but this is not dole. This is for those in poverty with a capital P.


----------



## Alcalaina

davexf said:


> I believe that anyone receiving money from the state should make themselves available for work for the Ayuntamiento; so giving them some dignity as in working for the money albeit the level of subsistence is the governing factor
> 
> Davexf


That's what happens now - they get a short-term contract sweeping streets or whatever and that gives them enough social security contributions to get uneployment benefits for the rest of the year. But it's at the discretion of the Ayuntamiento and not guaranteed by any means. The new scheme should offer a safety net that doesn't depend on your family's relationship with the mayor.


----------



## 95995

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> In my area, the "bin rakers" work overtime to find items that can bring them money; totally illegal of course; what you put in the bin belongs to the Ayuntamiento but people need to do it to survive.
> 
> Further, there is an increase in burglaries for the same reasons. Whilst it is good in some ways, the moment that it can become "an easy life" is when the amount of money needs to be looked at.
> 
> *I believe that anyone receiving money from the state should make themselves available for work for the Ayuntamiento; so giving them some dignity as in working for the money albeit the level of subsistence is the governing factor *
> 
> Davexf


This is a false good idea. It tends to embed poverty, low wage and unemployment, plus is very expensive for local government (or other levels of government as applicable) to administer and supervise. There have been many studies conducted on how this has worked around the world, and I myself have experience of the cost to local government in Australia, having worked for one when such a scheme was introduced.

Getting rid of rubbish, BTW, is also a cost to local governments, so I don't see that owning the rubbish is a benefit to the Ayuntamiento.


----------



## 95995

BTW the real test will come when they roll it out, eg. that those who need it most are made aware and know what to do. Not to mention that they have yet to address certain very vulnerable sectors of the community, such as the mentally ill.


----------



## baldilocks

Meanwhile, on the French/Spanish border:

https://english.elpais.com/society/...x-in-town-split-between-spain-and-france.html


----------



## Isobella

El Munro says that 6794 industrial companies have folded since the leader has been in power. Is it just politicking?

https://www.elmundo.es/economia/2020/06/01/5ed3bc8e21efa0166f8b4602.htmlP


----------



## kaipa

Isobella said:


> El Munro says that 6794 industrial companies have folded since the leader has been in power. Is it just politicking?
> 
> https://www.elmundo.es/economia/2020/06/01/5ed3bc8e21efa0166f8b4602.htmlP


Well it says it all....El Mundo!!! They no doubt feel Trump is on the right track.


----------



## Love Karma

Isobella said:


> *El Munro *says that 6794 industrial companies have folded since the leader has been in power. Is it just politicking?
> 
> https://www.elmundo.es/economia/2020/06/01/5ed3bc8e21efa0166f8b4602.htmlP


Is that Matt's Spanish brother


----------



## 95995

baldilocks said:


> Meanwhile, on the French/Spanish border:
> 
> https://english.elpais.com/society/...x-in-town-split-between-spain-and-france.html


French shoppers started causing problem in Le Perthus from around 7.00 am on 11 May (which is the time I heard it reported on my local radio station), the date that France started to unwind the lockdown. Both alcohol and tobacco products can be purchased far cheaper there than in France because taxes are much lower. Things were so bad on 11 May that the French Mayor (on the French side of town) had to call the Prefect to urgently bring in the gendarmerie.

OTOH the Spanish side of town is pretty much totally economically reliant on French shoppers (in normal times of course).

However Andorra has now opened its borders, so issue at Perthus should reduce. 

https://www.la-croix.com/Economie/L-Andorre-ouvre-frontieres-Francais-ruent-alcool-tabac-2020-06-01-1301096971

It should be noted that there are pretty strict limits on how much alcohol and tobacco people can bring back to France (eg. max. 4 cartons of cigarettes), but of course people always try in on, even though French customs do a huge amount of checks.


----------



## Isobella

Love Karma said:


> Is that Matt's Spanish brother


Well R is just above D. Need fingernails cutting


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Bittersweet story


> *Keita Baldé alquila un edificio para los temporeros sin techo*
> 
> El jugador del Mónaco ha conseguido alojar esta misma semana a unos 90 temporeros de la campaña de fruta
> Su objetivo ahora es alquilar un segundo edifico para poder alojar a otras 110 personas que duermen actualmente en las calles


Originally he offered to pay a hotel to put them up in a hotel or hostal, but no one would accept them, supposedly because they are immigrants and non white...
https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/fc-barcelona/20200601/481560216727/barca-keita-balde.html


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> Bittersweet story
> Originally he offered to pay a hotel to put them up in a hotel or hostal, but no one would accept them, supposedly because they are immigrants and non white...
> https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/fc-barcelona/20200601/481560216727/barca-keita-balde.html


Good for him.

I just hope that the same people who made things difficult from the outset, don't start looking for problems to get the temporeros out of the building he has rented. Sadly I am sure that someone who wants to could find some irregularity or bureaucratic procedure that has been missed...
The Vox lawyers are propbably doing that as we speak.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Spain's ex King will be investigated for shady financial dealings
https://english.elpais.com/spanish_...pains-emeritus-king-over-kickback-scheme.html
Or will he?
Will this be a real investigation I wonder?


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spain's ex King will be investigated for shady financial dealings
> https://english.elpais.com/spanish_...pains-emeritus-king-over-kickback-scheme.html
> Or will he?
> Will this be a real investigation I wonder?


Fingers crossed!

Here's a bit of trivia for you all - who was the last Spanish monarch to die in office, and when?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Fingers crossed!
> 
> Here's a bit of trivia for you all - who was the last Spanish monarch to die in office, and when?


 Alfonso...XII maybe??


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Alfonso...XII maybe??


Correct - in 1885. All the kings since then have either been deposed or abdicated.

(My lockdown project - gen up on 19th century Spanish history!)


----------



## Isobella

One beach was popular in Cadiz and was closed because it exceeded the limit.

https://www.elmundo.es/andalucia/2020/06/07/5edd2fa7fdddfff8bb8b4599.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> One beach was popular in Cadiz and was closed because it exceeded the limit.
> 
> https://www.elmundo.es/andalucia/2020/06/07/5edd2fa7fdddfff8bb8b4599.html


 Very positive.
If there is to be limited access to places like beaches, it has to be policed and when the number that has been decided has been reached, it has to be closed off, otherwise it makes a mockery of it all.
Well done to the police.
Just don't know how they will be able to keep it up around the beaches in the summer. Maybe it won't be needed or maybe beach attendants will be employed like there are car park attendants...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Correct - in 1885. All the kings since then have either been deposed or abdicated.
> 
> (My lockdown project - gen up on 19th century Spanish history!)


Well there have only been 2 haven't there? Alfonso XIII and Juan Carlos I, one abdicated and one deposed.


----------



## Alcalaina

Isobella said:


> One beach was popular in Cadiz and was closed because it exceeded the limit.
> 
> https://www.elmundo.es/andalucia/2020/06/07/5edd2fa7fdddfff8bb8b4599.html


It's a small beach in El Puerto de Santa Maria, close to the town centre, and it was high tide. Fortunately there are plenty more beaches here with loads of space, if people can be bothered to travel a bit further!


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Very positive.
> If there is to be limited access to places like beaches, it has to be policed and when the number that has been decided has been reached, it has to be closed off, otherwise it makes a mockery of it all.
> Well done to the police.
> Just don't know how they will be able to keep it up around the beaches in the summer. Maybe it won't be needed or maybe beach attendants will be employed like there are car park attendants...


There are "Seguridad Civil" officers along the popular beaches, wearing bright orange waistcoats and keeping an eye on things. I think they are employed by the Ayuntamiento, I don't know if they have the power to actually move people off the beach or if they would need to call the police to deal with non-compliance situations - hopefully people will respect their authority and do as they're asked. That certainly seems to have been the case in El Puerto on Sunday.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Very positive.
> If there is to be limited access to places like beaches, it has to be policed and when the number that has been decided has been reached, it has to be closed off, otherwise it makes a mockery of it all.
> Well done to the police.
> Just don't know how they will be able to keep it up around the beaches in the summer. Maybe it won't be needed or maybe beach attendants will be employed like there are car park attendants...


Here, beach attendants have been employed for the main beaches in Jávea.


----------



## Lynn R

xabiaxica said:


> Here, beach attendants have been employed for the main beaches in Jávea.


That will be happening in Andalucia, too. The Junta announced that 3,000 people would be employed as security personnel on the beaches this summer.

https://www.diariosur.es/malaga/junta-abre-interesado-20200605132555-nt.html


----------



## Isobella

We had booked a few days in Conil next week and happy it was cancelled. Wouldn’t have spent much time on the beach and it isn’t crowded but it is the whole bunch of restrictions like masks etc.

Similar in Antigua, had mail from the hotel we sometimes stay in to say the Island was open to Brits since June 1st. Says there may be tests and required to wear masks in public....no thanks, holidays are about being laid back not security patrols etc. Hopefully all will be normal by November.


----------



## Alcalaina

Isobella said:


> We had booked a few days in Conil next week and happy it was cancelled. Wouldn’t have spent much time on the beach and it isn’t crowded but it is the whole bunch of restrictions like masks etc.


Conil will be heaving with sevillanos at the weekend, Corpus Christi piuente, now they can travel between provinces. But through the week I doubt it will get that busy till high season.

Wearing masks isn't such a big deal: you don't have to wear them in bars and restaurants as all the tables are 2m apart, which is actually quite civilised. I wear mine round my wrist and just stick it on if I am approaching a crowd of people or going into a shop.

Anyway i hope you can come back another time!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Bonus for health care workers and those working in care homes



https://cadenaser.com/emisora/2020/...43.html?sma=newsEditorialSER_generico20200611




> La compensación será variable e irá de *los 1.350 euros para los facultativos hasta los 350 euros*, según la categoría profesional de los sanitarios, y será de 900 euros para los trabajadores de las residencias,


----------



## Pesky Wesky

News on how schools will operate



https://cadenaser.com/programa/2020...79.html?sma=newsEditorialSER_generico20200611


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> News on how schools will operate
> 
> 
> 
> https://cadenaser.com/programa/2020...79.html?sma=newsEditorialSER_generico20200611


So glad I'm not a teacher....


----------



## kaipa

Overandout said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> News on how schools will operate
> 
> 
> 
> https://cadenaser.com/programa/2020...79.html?sma=newsEditorialSER_generico20200611
> 
> 
> 
> So glad I'm not a teacher....
Click to expand...

Not sure if these rules will apply to private academies like language schools. If no social distancing is necessary for those under 10 and 15 pupils max per classroom that will be quite good for some parts of the language school which cater for very young kids but given how many schools are just large apartments cant see how it will work when there is a mixture of adolescents, adults, children all coming and going at the same time


----------



## 95995

Pesky Wesky said:


> News on how schools will operate
> 
> 
> 
> https://cadenaser.com/programa/2020...79.html?sma=newsEditorialSER_generico20200611


Good to see they have given schools time to work out how to put the measures in place, because it will be complicated. But it could perhaps be doable, and I guess there is also some time for schools to raise issues that they consider too difficult; it is certainly better than the current measures in French schools which have resulted in schools being able to accept only a small proportion of students and often only for reduced hours/days - remains to be seen what they will do here for the new school year.


----------



## Brangus

Pesky Wesky said:


> News on how schools will operate
> 
> https://cadenaser.com/programa/2020...79.html?sma=newsEditorialSER_generico20200611


_Se asegurará la disposición en diferentes puntos del centro, incluidos *todos los aseos,* de agua, *jabón* y papel para el secado de manos, así como geles hidroalcohólicos, o desinfectantes con actividad virucida._


My child reports never seeing soap at schools here in 10 years, except on the last day before they closed due to the pandemic. Hand washing is such a simple and affordable way to avoid spreading many illnesses, including Covid-19. May soap at schools be a permanent change that results from this crisis.


----------



## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> Not sure if these rules will apply to private academies like language schools. If no social distancing is necessary for those under 10 and 15 pupils max per classroom that will be quite good for some parts of the language school which cater for very young kids but given how many schools are just large apartments cant see how it will work when there is a mixture of adolescents, adults, children all coming and going at the same time



My school has spent the last few months knocking down walls and creating two large classrooms which can cater for the size of classes we normally have. We are not a large academy and usually we have a maximum of about 12, in all age groups , would have been Impossible with the old classroom structure but perfectly doable with the new ones. My boss says it’s now more about affordability for parents etc with a certain downturn in the economy. We will wait and see what happens over the coming months


----------



## Alcalaina

Some good news for a change, Spain is extending the legal definition of mistreating domestic animals to include neglect, and introducing stricter penalties.

https://www.publico.es/politica/supremo-endurece-persecucion-maltrato-animales-domesticos.html


----------



## jimenato

Some Spanish news in the UK press

The Spain report says the EU’s fourth-largest economy remains riven by “deep, widespread poverty”, and that its social assistance system is “broken, underfunded, impossible to navigate and not reaching the people who need it most”.

During his 12-day tour, Alston noted that 26.1% of people, and 29.5% of children, were at risk of poverty or social exclusion in Spain in 2018. The unemployment rate of 14.5% is more than double the EU average, and youth unemployment stands at 32.9%.


----------



## 95995

jimenato said:


> Some Spanish news in the UK press
> 
> The Spain report says the EU’s fourth-largest economy remains riven by “deep, widespread poverty”, and that its social assistance system is “broken, underfunded, impossible to navigate and not reaching the people who need it most”.
> 
> During his 12-day tour, Alston noted that 26.1% of people, and 29.5% of children, were at risk of poverty or social exclusion in Spain in 2018. The unemployment rate of 14.5% is more than double the EU average, and youth unemployment stands at 32.9%.


Thanks for the link, very informative. Let's hope the coalition government can succeed in standing up to the oppositon parties - far from an easy task in these Covid times, and the balancing act is in any case both complex and hazardous. :fingerscrossed:

IMHO the EU and ECB have not helped much over the years, at times quite the opposite. Only time will tell how long term commitments regarding making additional funding available will actually pan out and what the ultimate costs to individual countries will be.


----------



## Isobella

jimenato said:


> Some Spanish news in the UK press
> 
> The Spain report says the EU’s fourth-largest economy remains riven by “deep, widespread poverty”, and that its social assistance system is “broken, underfunded, impossible to navigate and not reaching the people who need it most”.
> 
> During his 12-day tour, Alston noted that 26.1% of people, and 29.5% of children, were at risk of poverty or social exclusion in Spain in 2018. The unemployment rate of 14.5% is more than double the EU average, and youth unemployment stands at 32.9%.


I am wary of poverty figures especially from UN. Not saying there isn't poverty but depends what the indicators are and relative or absolute. This guy did a damning report of UK last year which was slammed by many in the media. One accusation was that he toured specific places in UK with a group of activists and charity workers that showed only one side. Full Fact also commented.

TV did a bit on the news yesterday of families struggling because of Covid. One a single parent with 2 kids said she couldn't afford to eat herself and only had one meal a day. She was overweight. Another same situation but had been furloughed and had a very nice car on the drive. 

I used to research poverty when I worked for Low Pay Unit and did a report for Rowntree trust with their criteria I wan't much above the poverty line


----------



## jimenato

Isobella said:


> I am wary of poverty figures especially from UN. Not saying there isn't poverty but depends what the indicators are and relative or absolute. This guy did a damning report of UK last year which was slammed by many in the media. One accusation was that he toured specific places in UK with a group of activists and charity workers that showed only one side. Full Fact also commented.
> 
> TV did a bit on the news yesterday of families struggling because of Covid. One a single parent with 2 kids said she couldn't afford to eat herself and only had one meal a day. She was overweight. Another same situation but had been furloughed and had a very nice car on the drive.
> 
> I used to research poverty when I worked for Low Pay Unit and did a report for Rowntree trust with their criteria I wan't much above the poverty line


I must say I was wondering in what capacity he was touring/reporting. 

He's an 'ex-UN expert' - so what is he now then?


----------



## Nomoss

jimenato said:


> I must say I was wondering in what capacity he was touring/reporting.
> 
> He's an 'ex-UN expert' - so what is he now then?


His position with the UN was unpaid. I think he'd get expenses though 

Prsumably his income comes from his job at the New York University School of Law, and he does his research in his holiday time


----------



## kaipa

In real terms global poverty is reducing the problem is misconstruing poverty with inequality. In developed countries, since 1980 inequality has increased especially in USA and UK, however poverty in both countries has reduced. We nearly all believe that things are getting worse whereas in reality things are actually much better than say 50 years ago. What does appear to be increasing is peoples levels of dissatisfaction caused by belief that their lives are becoming more impoverished. Media is the common cause of this with is preoccupation with 'bad' news. Really today's headlines should be that Today 137,000 Less People in Poverty Than Yesterday. And that's true!!


----------



## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> Some Spanish news in the UK press
> 
> The Spain report says the EU’s fourth-largest economy remains riven by “deep, widespread poverty”, and that its social assistance system is “broken, underfunded, impossible to navigate and not reaching the people who need it most”.
> 
> During his 12-day tour, Alston noted that 26.1% of people, and 29.5% of children, were at risk of poverty or social exclusion in Spain in 2018. The unemployment rate of 14.5% is more than double the EU average, and youth unemployment stands at 32.9%.


This was widely reported in the Spanish press back in February.

https://www.infolibre.es/noticias/p...isto_alto_porcentaje_pobreza_103740_1012.html


----------



## fortrose52

Would the fact that we are bombarded with everything celebrity every day, influencers, get rich quick media sorts, maybe make some people feel down about their situation? Especially if they are working hard and still really struggling with no light at the end of the tunnel


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Magaluf closes down "party streets" in order to keep Covid 19 under control.
English

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...after-outcry-over-drunk-and-maskless-tourists.
Spanish
https://www.elconfidencial.com/espa...es-fiesta-exceso-magaluf-playa-palma_2683223/


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Diego Méntrida gives a lesson on good sportsmanship. Also note how the British man has no idea of social distancing and/ or wearing a mask!


----------



## Lynn R

I enjoyed the account of Casado's speech repudiating Vox and it's leader - better late than never.









Vox’s motion of no confidence fails, securing only the votes of its own deputies


In a surprise move, Popular Party leader Pablo Casado launched a scathing attack on the far-right group in Congress today, symbolically breaking all links with its leader Santiago Abascal




english.elpais.com


----------



## Overandout

Lynn R said:


> I enjoyed the account of Casado's speech repudiating Vox and it's leader - better late than never.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vox’s motion of no confidence fails, securing only the votes of its own deputies
> 
> 
> In a surprise move, Popular Party leader Pablo Casado launched a scathing attack on the far-right group in Congress today, symbolically breaking all links with its leader Santiago Abascal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.elpais.com


Don't fall for the trap!

The PP had everything to gain by rejecting Abascal's theatrical claims, especially by trying to attract the wavering socialist vote...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> We had booked a few days in Conil next week and happy it was cancelled. Wouldn’t have spent much time on the beach and it isn’t crowded but it is the whole bunch of restrictions like masks etc.
> 
> Similar in Antigua, had mail from the hotel we sometimes stay in to say the Island was open to Brits since June 1st. Says there may be tests and required to wear masks in public....no thanks, holidays are about being laid back not security patrols etc.* Hopefully all will be normal by November.*


Doesn't look like it


----------



## Isobella

Juan Carlos is back in the news again. According to the Times he was being bankrolled by a Mexican tycoon who supplied him with an open credit card for hundred of thousands a year. Hints that his wife Was closely involved too. Curious to know what the Mexican got out of it.


----------



## Alcalaina

Breaking news - assisted dying law approved by Congress. Supported by a large majority of Spaniards, and By most of us on this forum judging by previous discussions on the topic.









El Congreso aprueba la ley de eutanasia que permitirá ayudar a morir dignamente en España


El pleno da luz verde con el único voto en contra del PP, Vox y UPN a la norma tras 25 años de intentos fallidos y la pelea de familiares, asociaciones y personas enfermas




www.eldiario.es


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Breaking news - assisted dying law approved by Congress. Supported by a large majority of Spaniards, and By most of us on this forum judging by previous discussions on the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> El Congreso aprueba la ley de eutanasia que permitirá ayudar a morir dignamente en España
> 
> 
> El pleno da luz verde con el único voto en contra del PP, Vox y UPN a la norma tras 25 años de intentos fallidos y la pelea de familiares, asociaciones y personas enfermas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eldiario.es


It still has one more stage to go through before it actually comes into force, but it seems unlikely that it will not be ratified


----------



## kaipa

Pesky Wesky said:


> It still has one more stage to go through before it actually comes into force, but it seems unlikely that it will not be ratified


No doubt the right are indignant again!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

A non invasive way of detecting breast cancer at home has been invented by a 24 year old Spanish woman
The Blue Box | James Dyson Award
At-home AI breast cancer test wins International Dyson Award | Design Week
_Users input their urine sample into the box, which then performs a chemical analysis. After sending the results to the cloud, the AI algorithm reacts to specific metabolites in the sample. The Blue Box is connected to a smartphone app, so if the results come back positive the user can immediately be put in touch with a medical professional._


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> A non invasive way of detecting breast cancer at home has been invented by a 24 year old Spanish woman
> The Blue Box | James Dyson Award
> At-home AI breast cancer test wins International Dyson Award | Design Week
> _Users input their urine sample into the box, which then performs a chemical analysis. After sending the results to the cloud, the AI algorithm reacts to specific metabolites in the sample. The Blue Box is connected to a smartphone app, so if the results come back positive the user can immediately be put in touch with a medical professional._


Well done her! But just to clarify, she didn't invent detecting cancer from urine samples, which has been around for a couple of years and is up to 85% effective. She invented this particular methodology for testing it. Definitely an improvement on the old mammogram...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Well done her! But just to clarify, she didn't invent detecting cancer from urine samples, which has been around for a couple of years and is up to 85% effective. She invented this particular methodology for testing it. Definitely an improvement on the old mammogram...


Yes, good clarification!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

"Tech giant Google announced that it intends to invest more than £470m ($650m) over five years in Spain, including the installation of a cybersecurity ‘Centre Of Excellence’, in an old military government building with a 2,500m2 of space, located on the Paseo de la Farola in Malaga, but no start date has yet been confirmed."
Goodbye tourism based Spain of the 20th century and hello to digital Spain of the 21st century!
Google puts Malaga on the map with plans for a cybersecurity centre of excellence


----------



## Lynn R

There was another piece of good news about investment and (non tourism) jobs coming to Málaga province yesterday:-









La multinacional Lumon anuncia que instalará una fábrica en Antequera y se generarán 200 empleos


La inversión para su construcción será de 20 millones de euros El alcalde muestra su satisfacción por esta "magnífica noticia" para la ciudad




www.malagahoy.es


----------



## Pesky Wesky

sectors in growth and declining in Spain 2020
España, sector a sector: la agricultura se hace fuerte en la crisis y alcanza su mayor peso en el PIB en 15 años


----------



## kaipa

Well I guess it's all pretty much as expected. Non essential economic activity has obviously declined whereas food has had a growth. I dont think it indicates a long term trend


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> Well I guess it's all pretty much as expected. Non essential economic activity has obviously declined whereas food has had a growth. I dont think it indicates a long term trend


I think it might well be a long term trend. Agribusiness in Andalucia is diversifying into high-value crops like avocado and dragon-fruit to meet growing demand in northern Europe, and the current craze for almond milk etc is also benefiting Spanish growers. I'm not personally an advocate of veganism and pseudo-scientific superfood fads, but if it benefits our economy it can't be all bad!


----------



## Isobella

kaipa said:


> Well I guess it's all pretty much as expected. Non essential economic activity has obviously declined whereas food has had a growth. I dont think it indicates a long term trend


Agree. Things could change quickly if everything ever gets back to normal. Agriculture is notorious for low paid seasonal jobs. Benefits only a few.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

I have no idea how things will develop. I don't think anyone really does.
The world really is, more than ever, a whirling ball of change and the changes are coming more and more quickly. As humans I think the need to plan is always there, but governments, companies, workers, schools and basically everyone has to be adaptable and as far as possible, be ready to meet the unexpected. (VUCA)
So certain areas will grow and expand until the next natural disaster/ shift in world markets/ health scare/ war/ technological breakthough etc etc hits. In a way, just how things have always happened, but with the huge added factor of the speed at which these events are happening in this, the 21st century.
That's how I see it anyway


----------



## Overandout

So who has woken up to a new local government today?

As far as I can see now, the votes of no confidence have been formally lodged in Murcia, Castilla Leon and Madrid... anywhere else?

The problem is that the news is only really talking about Madrid, because of course, being Madrid we can't even do a vote of no confidence without having to go to the constitutional court to see who has the right to do what and in what order... 😩


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Overandout said:


> So who has woken up to a new local government today?
> 
> As far as I can see now, the votes of no confidence have been formally lodged in Murcia, Castilla Leon and Madrid... anywhere else?
> 
> The problem is that the news is only really talking about Madrid, because of course, being Madrid we can't even do a vote of no confidence without having to go to the constitutional court to see who has the right to do what and in what order... 😩


Ayuso trying to pull a fast one... If it does go to elections I wouldn't be surprised if she won. The hotel and catering trade will be behind her I suppose and also many shop workers...


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ayuso trying to pull a fast one... If it does go to elections I wouldn't be surprised if she won. The hotel and catering trade will be behind her I suppose and also many shop workers...


Absolutely. If it goes to elections we will have a PP / Vox coallition in Madrid.


----------



## kaipa

Yes. With CC pulling support all over spain from PP this means VOX are going to become very influential. PP have no alternative but to accept them as allies if they wish to control some regions. It is a real game changer and unless the citizens of Madrid turn against Ayuso then I fear Spain is going to allow itself to become effectively a far-right country with considerable tensions and chaos. Not good for some regions with ex pats as an anti -foreginer feeling is what will follow.


----------



## Overandout

kaipa said:


> Yes. With CC pulling support all over spain from PP this means VOX are going to become very influential. PP have no alternative but to accept them as allies if they wish to control some regions. It is a real game changer and unless the citizens of Madrid turn against Ayuso then I fear Spain is going to allow itself to become effectively a far-right country with considerable tensions and chaos. Not good for some regions with ex pats as an anti -foreginer feeling is what will follow.


I partly agree.

You make it sound like the PP will be reluctant to align with Vox, but remember that Vox is really a sub-set of the PP which has extracted itself and identified as an "even further right" group. But it already existed within the PP.

And Spain, sadly is already a quite heavily far right country. The PP has never been "centre right" and has grown in strength significantly since they got Felipe Gonzalez out. The socialist victories sine then have been quite marginal, to the point tnow that they neede a coallition for the first time.

But yes, if Ayuso gets in with Vox, the tendency will continue.


----------



## kaipa

A sad state of affairs considering Spain is far from out of the woods with the Pandemic. Just heard Casado on the news exposing obviously the new narrative: you either vote for communism or freedom. Sounds familiar?


----------



## kaipa

If Ayuso teams up with Vox then Madrid could find itself being controlled by an ultra-right government. A huge embarrassment for Spain in terms of Europe and even internationally. Imagine living under a regime that will encourage parents to remove their children from any classes promoting homosexuality or non- Christian themes. Where violence against women will require much higher levels of proof. Where the legacy of Franco will be publicly rebuilt and praised. Where dissenting voices will be jailed. Is that really what Spain is going to allow? I doubt your average Brit is concerned about this given how we are quite keen to holiday in places like Dubai!!


----------



## Overandout

Well, as much as I fear for the result, I am actually glad that the legal decision on the Madrid situation is that the elections will go ahead and not the vote of no confidence. 

The votes of no confidence were lodged only after Ayuso stated that she would suspend the assembly and call for elections but for procedural reasons this could not be formalised until midnight, or rather 0:01 of the next day, so jumping on that delay of hours to try to stop the elections by lodging the vote of no confidence was a bit sneaky really. If the right had pulled the same trick on a socialist administration, there would have been uproar, so legally I think it was the right constitutional outcome.

But now we have to make sure Ayuso gets the democratic boot! I'll be voting.... but which of the many fragmented socialist parties should I vote for... ?


----------



## kaipa

Yes I suppose an election is best as at least it allows the people to have a voice as opposed to only politicians. That said I am not really up to date on the voting intentions in Madrid. Am I right in thinking that PSOE are likely to get most votes but unable to govern due to coalitions from the right? I suppose much of this will be fought against the recent allegations of corruption in PP so maybe Ayuso wont have sufficient support this time


----------



## Overandout

kaipa said:


> Yes I suppose an election is best as at least it allows the people to have a voice as opposed to only politicians. That said I am not really up to date on the voting intentions in Madrid. Am I right in thinking that PSOE are likely to get most votes but unable to govern due to coalitions from the right? I suppose much of this will be fought against the recent allegations of corruption in PP so maybe Ayuso wont have sufficient support this time


I think that that's a relatively fair summary yes. If I remember correctly PSOE won the vote last time round, but with no absolute majority. Ayuso got in with the support of Cs and Vox.

This time she will not have the support of Cs of course, but polls are suggesting that with Vox, PP can expect an absolute majority. I would probably expect PSOE to get a lower vote count than last time. Madrid votes with its wallet and the wallet is empty.

The left will of course argue that the PP is corrupt, but that's not a new argument and it has been proved ineffective many times over. Most people who vote for them aspire to such levels of corruption, so it's not much of a deterrent!


----------



## kaipa

Yes I agree. One of the strangest things is that there are people I know who regard things like the Caja B as perfectly acceptable. They feel that what many of us regard as corrupt practices is the entitlement of the powerful. I have met people here who have the moral stance: if someone is cheated it is because they are stupid and the one who cheats them is clever!! I usually content myself by watching them struggle to divide the meal bill!!


----------



## Overandout

Bombshell news!

Pablo Iglesias leaves his position as the head of Podemos and hence the "second vice-presidency" of the government to stand as a candidate in Madrid....

Odd choice if youi ask me. Yes Podemos in Madrid is dwindling, but putting a figure hated by so many to try to win back the vote may not be what the left needs. Time will tell.


----------



## kaipa

A baffling move and one I think that shows something of the vanity of politicians. I would have thought that although much of what Inglesias says needs saying his image and public persona has become fossilized as vice-president and it is very hard for a high profile figure to effectively reinvent themselves. I fear for Spain so much now. It is hard to imagine they will last the year without some kind of collapse of government. The void unfortunately will be filled with something sinister and quite possibly evil. It reminds me of series7 of Homeland where the presidency becomes so paranoid it ends up being the repressor thinking it is upholding democracy.


----------



## Alcalaina

The assisted dying law has just been approved by Congress, making Spain the fifth country in the world to allow people with incurable diseases and suffering unbearable pain to end their lives legally.









España aprueba la ley de eutanasia y se convierte en el quinto país del mundo en regularla


Los solicitantes deberán “sufrir una enfermedad grave e incurable o un padecimiento grave, crónico e imposibilitante”




elpais.com


----------



## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> A baffling move and one I think that shows something of the vanity of politicians. I would have thought that although much of what Inglesias says needs saying his image and public persona has become fossilized as vice-president and it is very hard for a high profile figure to effectively reinvent themselves. I fear for Spain so much now. It is hard to imagine they will last the year without some kind of collapse of government. The void unfortunately will be filled with something sinister and quite possibly evil. It reminds me of series7 of Homeland where the presidency becomes so paranoid it ends up being the repressor thinking it is upholding democracy.


I think Iglesias has realised that his image really isn't helping the party now. Either that or he's got fed up of the constant abuse he receives at work and at home, by which I am referring to the threats his children have received and the constant pickets outside his home which provide noise, shouting of threats etc almost 24 hours a day


----------



## Pesky Wesky

A school in Valladolid will stop offering bilingual education next academic year
Controversial! Here's the article. Don't forget that you can run it through Deepl translator if your Spanish isn't up to it.
Un colegio de Valladolid se ‘rebela’ contra la enseñanza bilingüe y dejará de ofertarla el próximo curso
Personally I don't think the problem is bilingual education itself; I think the problem is more likely the way it's been implemented here and the training given to the teachers. After all, amny countries in the world offer bilingual education with great results. I hope this will open up the debate here and that "real" bilingual education will be offered in schools soon.


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## kaipa

I couldn't understand their reason for stopping. It just seems to say they wont continue and that there has been no refusal by the authorities.


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## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> I couldn't understand their reason for stopping. It just seems to say they wont continue and that there has been no refusal by the authorities.


Talking about the school?
I saw an interview and they were saying (and I have heard this argument before) that children need to learn concepts in their own language first otherwise they learn things in English and don't transfer the knowledge to their Spanish environment. The example they gave in the interview I saw was learning about birds in natural sciences and they learnt blackbird and didn't know that in Spanish it's "mirlo"....
I haven't heard anything from the authorities, but when this was first brought in schools asked the AMPAS, they voted and acted on the vote, but they weren't made to change, so I presume they can decide to change back...


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## kaipa

I must say I used to teach Madrid teachers English for their programme they had a while ago to incorporate English (CLi) into other subjects. Their level was really really low and many were in their 40s and 50s and hated idea. I think they had to demonstrate certain levels of English to keep their contracts but to be honest I dont think they could in any way have been capable of teaching their subjects in English.

That said it is a good idea but unless the teachers have at least B2 level English It wont work. I think it all started back in the 70s in Canada where they did French/English and it was very successful.
Maybe if some parts of Spain stopped teaching their particular dialects and focussed on more hours of English they could improve things.


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## kaipa

Pesky Wesky said:


> Talking about the school?
> I saw an interview and they were saying (and I have heard this argument before) that children need to learn concepts in their own language first otherwise they learn things in English and don't transfer the knowledge to their Spanish environment. The example they gave in the interview I saw was learning about birds in natural sciences and they learnt blackbird and didn't know that in Spanish it's "mirlo"....
> I haven't heard anything from the authorities, but when this was first brought in schools asked the AMPAS, they voted and acted on the vote, but they weren't made to change, so I presume they can decide to change back...


Yes I can see the reasoning behind that but would be surprised if that would happen unless they were very young


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## Overandout

Although I understand the view expressed by the school (teaching in English does, in my opinion have detrimental effect on the learning simply beacuse it is an additional faction added on top), I think Kaipa's observation is possibly the root cause, more than the fact that the subjects are simply translated.

I'm probably not the only one on here with bilingual kids who find themselves in a difficult situation because they don't know if they should correct the mistakes of the teachers or let them slide. My son is in a bilingual program and the problem really isn't the fact that some subjects are translated, it is that the translations are poor and inaccurate.

Relating the teaching back to the mother tongue is a problem of the quality of the Enlish tuition in the very English subject as well as the quality of the translation of the subject being taught in English.

The solution is therefore a long way off, because the teachers of the bilingual subjects and the teachers of English have to improve.


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## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> I must say I used to teach Madrid teachers English for their programme they had a while ago to incorporate English (CLi) into other subjects. Their level was really really low and many were in their 40s and 50s and hated idea. I think they had to demonstrate certain levels of English to keep their contracts but to be honest I dont think they could in any way have been capable of teaching their subjects in English.
> 
> That said it is a good idea but unless the teachers have at least B2 level English It wont work. I think it all started back in the 70s in Canada where they did French/English and it was very successful.
> Maybe if some parts of Spain stopped teaching their particular dialects and focussed on more hours of English they could improve things.


I think the whole concept of bilingual teaching goes far and beyond what has been incorporated in Spain where in some schools bilingual teaching was (don't know if it still happens now) one teacher reading out info in Spanish and another reading a translation. Schools are not bilingual because they teach PE, natural sciences and art in English and they are not bilingual if you close the doors in June and open up in September with the same staff and put bilingual before the school name.
The whole thing needs to be thought out, planned, trained for, equipped for....


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## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> Yes I can see the reasoning behind that but would be surprised if that would happen unless they were very young


It obviously does happen because as I've said it's a very much commented on point by teachers and parents, but they are plenty of successful bilingal education systems running in other countries and possibly in Spain too (although I only hear complaints about Catalan and Basque language schools) so why don't governments explore what is already set up and working in Holland, Norway, Algeria, India???


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## kaipa

The biggest obstacle for Spain when it comes to English is cultural. My second half was Swedish and there English is acquired quite easily without much input from schools. The fact is that Sweden aligns quite closely with Britain and USA culturally. Even now in the sticks there has been a fashion for 50s USA. People with little formal education grow up basically using 50s America as their cultural blueprint so English is often used daily as part of normal life. Plus children all watch cartoons etc ( Sesame StreeT) in English. English music dominates the scene with many artists singing only in English. All my inlaws speak English fluently even the young teenagers. Spain doesn't share the same cultural points and still dubs TV etc. Having said that the advent of YouTube and Netflix is definitely changing things as young Spanish now have more access to English content which is far broader than what they used to rely on.


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## Pesky Wesky

For those who think Spain is a non racist society...
With subtitles in English. Watch till the end


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## kalohi

Pesky Wesky said:


> For those who think Spain is a non racist society...
> With subtitles in English. Watch till the end


I actually saw something on these same lines happen a couple of years ago at the Three Kings Parade - but it wasn't an act. We were standing in a crowd waiting for the parade to start, and two women wearing head scarfs were standing in front of me. Then the woman next to me told the Muslim women that they had no right to be there because it wasn't their tradition, and that they should leave. The Muslim women ignored the remark, so the woman next to me continued to say derogatory things and insisting that they should leave. After a few moments of that the Muslim women moved away. I was so totally shocked that I didn't react - I was literally speechless. With all the jostling of the crowd the woman next to me quickly ended up not being next to me any more, so by the time I got my tongue back the situation was over. To this day I feel absolutely mortified that I didn't speak up to defend those women. I know that if I ever witnessed such a situation again I would react immediately. 

So yes, I agree that Spain is definitely a racist society, especially when it comes to Muslims.


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## kaipa

You just have to watch Spanish TV. You never see an ethnic person as a presenter, commentator, journalist etc.


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## Pesky Wesky

kalohi said:


> I actually saw something on these same lines happen a couple of years ago at the Three Kings Parade - but it wasn't an act. We were standing in a crowd waiting for the parade to start, and two women wearing head scarfs were standing in front of me. Then the woman next to me told the Muslim women that they had no right to be there because it wasn't their tradition, and that they should leave. The Muslim women ignored the remark, so the woman next to me continued to say derogatory things and insisting that they should leave. After a few moments of that the Muslim women moved away. I was so totally shocked that I didn't react - I was literally speechless. With all the jostling of the crowd the woman next to me quickly ended up not being next to me any more, so by the time I got my tongue back the situation was over. To this day I feel absolutely mortified that I didn't speak up to defend those women. I know that if I ever witnessed such a situation again I would react immediately.
> 
> So yes, I agree that Spain is definitely a racist society, especially when it comes to Muslims.


I think my reaction would be much the same - mortified but dumbstruck....


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## Alcalaina

Our town is monocultural white Catholic apart from a few Muslim women working as residential carers and one adopted Ethiopian. We have a support programme with the Western Sahara refugee camps where saharaui children come over for two weeks in the summer and stay with local families. I never encountered racism here until Vox started their islamophobic social media campaigns. It's pretty sickening how many people (mainly middle-aged churchgoing women) believe the propaganda.


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## tardigrade

kaipa said:


> You just have to watch Spanish TV. You never see an ethnic person as a presenter, commentator, journalist etc.


Or football players; although there was a player in the under 21s that was different than the rest.


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## Alcalaina

tardigrade said:


> Or football players; although there was a player in the under 21s that was different than the rest.


Not really surprising. Unlike the U.K., immigrants from Spain’s former colonies don’t look “different“. Im sure there must be footballers in the Spanish team whose parents or grandparents came from Latin American countries. And Diego Costa ((Brazilian) got Spanish citizenship just so he could play for Spain.


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## tardigrade

The French side is the total opposite compared to the country.

It must have something to do with the footballing system here in Spain as to why there are no players of color in the starting national men or womens team.


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## kaipa

Racism in Spain is dealt with quite differently than say in UK or Scandanavia. I feel that in Spain its existence is simply not commented on in public as much as it is in these other countries. Basically it is not seen as an issue that requires primary focus despite its obvious existence. I am still amazed at how open people are in the way they talk about gitanos. I dont thimk I have ever met a Spanish person who feels remotely self conscience about making discriminatory remarks about them. It's almost as though they are talking about facts.


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## Overandout

I also note the irony of the supposedly ultra "woke" lefties in Spain (leftie not meant as an insult by the way) when they use words like Japo, Paqui, Yanqui as if they were completely normal, but then get all offended if someone calls a South American a "panchito".
I tried to explain the fact that they shouldn't use the term "Yank" when talking to a US citizen because the etimology / heritage which could be offensive to the person, but they just dismissed it as me being "picky"...

But it is cultural. Anglo-Saxon people are more aware of the issues surrounding the ex colonial and English speaking world, and the Spanish are more aware of the South America / North Africa.

At least there are some Spanish who are trying to be more ethnically inclusive (less racist) and it's not like the English speaking world is racism free is it?


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## tardigrade

I see this as a mistake that may increase tensions on the ground.
US to add federal holiday marking end of slavery

Sort of like Black history month... So only 1 month is good for them.. What about the other 11 - white history months?


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## Alcalaina

tardigrade said:


> The French side is the total opposite compared to the country.
> 
> It must have something to do with the footballing system here in Spain as to why there are no players of color in the starting national men or womens team.


Or again, it could just be because French immigrants came mainly from its former African colonies.


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## tardigrade

Alcalaina said:


> Or again, it could just be because French immigrants came mainly from its former African colonies.


The point I was making was that the French soccer team does not represent the population of France.


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## Alcalaina

tardigrade said:


> The point I was making was that the French soccer team does not represent the population of France.


In what way?


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## timwip

kaipa said:


> Racism in Spain is dealt with quite differently than say in UK or Scandanavia. I feel that in Spain its existence is simply not commented on in public as much as it is in these other countries. Basically it is not seen as an issue that requires primary focus despite its obvious existence. I am still amazed at how open people are in the way they talk about gitanos. I dont thimk I have ever met a Spanish person who feels remotely self conscience about making discriminatory remarks about them. It's almost as though they are talking about facts.


Racism is a world-wide problem...in Spain, United States as well as UK. The UK is on no moral high-ground. It amazes me that (1) Boris Johnson can refer to President Obama as "the part-Kenyan President" ; (2) the British royal family´s concern of the skin color of Meghan and Harry´s children; and, (3) part of the royal family´s wealth made on the slave trade. Are these facts openly talked about in the UK?


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## Alcalaina

timwip said:


> Racism is a world-wide problem...in Spain, United States as well as UK. The UK is on no moral high-ground. It amazes me that (1) Boris Johnson can refer to President Obama as "the part-Kenyan President" ; (2) the British royal family´s concern of the skin color of Meghan and Harry´s children; and, (3) part of the royal family´s wealth made on the slave trade. Are these facts openly talked about in the UK?


Very much so!


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## timwip

Alcalaina said:


> Very much so!


Is it being talked about enough in your opinion?


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## Alcalaina

timwip said:


> Is it being talked about enough in your opinion?


Impossible to say. Certainly in the mainstream media and in sport racism is a huge issue. Even the Church of England is now looking at the sources of its funding. C of E investigates possible slave trade origins of £9.2bn fund. But whether the talk reaches the ears of those who most need to hear it is another matter.


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## Isobella

Do you think investigating links to slave trade which happened so long ago will change people's attitudes to racism? Perhaps these Academics and NGOs should look at what is happening now in terms of slavery. Maybe list all the companies who deal with China for a start. See we are back with UK again. Europe doesn't give a hoot about useless gestures such as taken the knee but in UK anyone who doesn't is considered Raycist


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## Alcalaina

Isobella said:


> Do you think investigating links to slave trade which happened so long ago will change people's attitudes to racism? Perhaps these Academics and NGOs should look at what is happening now in terms of slavery. Maybe list all the companies who deal with China for a start. See we are back with UK again. Europe doesn't give a hoot about useless gestures such as taken the knee but in UK anyone who doesn't is considered Raycist


In the long term, yes I think it’s important that people are made aware of these things. Attitudes don’t change overnight but all the things that have changed over the past 50 years because of people’s efforts to raise awareness were considered OTT at the time. What’s going on in China and other parts of the world is no less important, it’s not mutually exclusive.


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## Lynn R

A bit of economic good news for Spain (for a change!). From The Guardian's live Business feed. 

"As exports jumped, Spain recorded a trade surplus of €140m in May, up 12.6% from a year earlier, according to customs trade data released by the Spanish ministry for trade and tourism.
Exports grew 55.3% year-on-year to €27.2bn, a record high for the month of May. Imports grew at a similar rate, by 55.6%, to €27.1bn.
Spain said its export growth rate in May was greater than that in France (43.1%), Germany (36.4%) and the United Kingdom (28.3%)."


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## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> A bit of economic good news for Spain (for a change!). From The Guardian's live Business feed.
> 
> "As exports jumped, Spain recorded a trade surplus of €140m in May, up 12.6% from a year earlier, according to customs trade data released by the Spanish ministry for trade and tourism.
> Exports grew 55.3% year-on-year to €27.2bn, a record high for the month of May. Imports grew at a similar rate, by 55.6%, to €27.1bn.
> Spain said its export growth rate in May was greater than that in France (43.1%), Germany (36.4%) and the United Kingdom (28.3%)."


How did that happen?


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## timwip

Pesky Wesky said:


> How did that happen?


55% increase is May 2021 vs May 2020. If you were to compare May 2021 to May 2019, it would be a 1.9% increase. All you can really conclude is that things are starting to get back to normal.


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## Lynn R

timwip said:


> 55% increase is May 2021 vs May 2020.  If you were to compare May 2021 to May 2019, it would be a 1.9% increase. All you can really conclude is that things are starting to get back to normal.


I just think it's a healthy sign of economic recovery, if exports are already back to marginally above the May 2019 level after everything that has happened over the last 16 months.


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## Megsmum

Excellent news for Spain. Do we know what sectors the export increases were in...


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## Pesky Wesky

Yes, of course figures are up. It would be difficult to not see a rise when comparing May 2020 and May 2021. But how come Spain's recovery is better than France, Germany or the UK?
How did that happen?


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## tardigrade

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, of course figures are up. It would be difficult to not see a rise when comparing May 2020 and May 2021. But how come Spain's recovery is better than France, Germany or the UK?
> How did that happen?


Agricultural is probably why the figures are better. The Alicant region did exceptionally well, even compared to 2019.
Remember, there are no chips for the germs to make autos.


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## Pesky Wesky

tardigrade said:


> Agricultural is probably why the figures are better. The Alicant region did exceptionally well, even compared to 2019.
> Remember, there are no chips for the germs to make autos.


Maybe... I didn't think there was that much profit in that area. BTW it took me a while to understand your last sentence...


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## Pesky Wesky

This piece of news should be titled what the F**K is wrong with people!!!!
In English (I couldn't watch the video here) 
Nurse assaulted on Madrid Metro after asking another passenger to wear a face mask
In Spanish
El joven que agredió a un sanitario en el Metro de Madrid usó un puño americano

Not only the guy who hit the nurse, but the reaction of the people - no one rushes over to help. No one tries to stop the perpetrator.
What is wrong with us?


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## tardigrade

Pesky Wesky said:


> This piece of news should be titled what the F**K is wrong with people!!!!
> In English (I couldn't watch the video here)
> Nurse assaulted on Madrid Metro after asking another passenger to wear a face mask
> In Spanish
> El joven que agredió a un sanitario en el Metro de Madrid usó un puño americano
> 
> Not only the guy who hit the nurse, but the reaction of the people - no one rushes over to help. No one tries to stop the perpetrator.
> What is wrong with us?


I do not know about Spain (sorry) but in other european countries I have lived in the attacker could press charges against the person trying to save the person getting attacked. This could stop a person from helping. Hope that makes sense.


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## Alcalaina

Here you go folks. The outer circle shows exports for May 2021 and the inner circle for May 2020.

The biggest export sector is capital goods, at 18.7%. These are things that a company uses in the production process to manufacture products and services,, e.g. tools, materials, machinery. Capital goods are not finished goods, instead, they are used to make finished goods. 

Food and beverages have fallen by 5% over last year - Brexit possibly??












https://comercio.gob.es/ImportacionExportacion/Informes_Estadisticas/Documents/informe-mensual/International-Trade-Report-Executive-summary-ultimo-periodo.pdf


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## tardigrade

Alcalaina said:


> Food and beverages have fallen by 5% over last year - Brexit possibly??
> 
> View attachment 99929
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://comercio.gob.es/ImportacionExportacion/Informes_Estadisticas/Documents/informe-mensual/International-Trade-Report-Executive-summary-ultimo-periodo.pdf


Brexit and Covid. There are very few hen and stag parties coming from the island to Benidorm or the islands(Spanish) and fewer tourists of all nationalities.


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## timwip

tardigrade said:


> Brexit and Covid. There are very few hen and stag parties coming from the island to Benidorm or the islands(Spanish) and fewer tourists of all nationalities.


Tourists consuming food and beverages in Spain would not count toward exports.


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## tardigrade

Yes, my misunderstanding.


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## Alcalaina

tardigrade said:


> Brexit and Covid. There are very few hen and stag parties coming from the island to Benidorm or the islands(Spanish) and fewer tourists of all nationalities.


These are exports, not booze consumed within in Spain.

Maybe Trump's tariff on olive oil etc had an effect? It was only lifted recently.


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## tardigrade

See above your post please..

It was also on cured olives.


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## Alcalaina

tardigrade said:


> See above your post please..
> 
> It was also on cured olives.


Hello, were you talking to me?
What do you think “etc” means?


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## tardigrade

Alcalaina said:


> These are exports, not booze consumed within in Spain.


referring to this quote of yours *where* ( edited as wrong word) above your post I acknowledged my mistake.


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## Lynn R

A typically blunt Spanish reply to complaints.  









Don’t like roosters and cow mess? Don’t come here, Spanish village tells tourists


Posters in Ribadesella warn visitors unhappy about reality of rural life they ‘may not be in the right place’




www.theguardian.com


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