# New member introducing myself



## MoonlitKnight

Bon jour!
I hope you are all healthy and safe.
I am considering early retirement, moving to rural France (I've been looking at Poitou-Charentes) - as a cyclist and an outdoor person, I long to live in a place where I can walk or bike everywhere, or take a train or bus, only using a car if absolutely necessary. I live in a rural area of the Pacific Northwest and constantly rely on my car because the roads here are just not safe to walk nor bike - a jogger was recently killed on my road, and my cycling neighbors and I all load our bikes on our cars to ride on safer paths.
I'd love to hear from other members who can enlighten me and let me know if my dream of the French village lifestyle is just a dream, or if it is reality. If I need a carton of milk or some fruit, can I walk or bike to the market without fear of being run off the road? 
I'd also appreciate any thoughts on the attitudes and political environment with regards to expats - in other words, if I move and ultimately get a residence visa, would there conceivably come a time when I'd no longer be able to live in France? I know nobody can predict the future, but just curious what the current environment feels like. If I move to France, I don't think I can return to the states - neither financially nor spiritually.
Thank you for taking time to read my message!


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## tardigrade

welcome..
just my 2 cents but don't do as many have done before (mostly english couples) and purchase something that you will not be able to maintain in your "real retirement years". This could be a house or a house with land.. Having people do the work is much more expensive than you are used to.


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## jweihl

In our experience it totally depends. Some communities are much more bike friendly than others. In our case, the city in which we live is not nearly as well set up for casual bike riding as our city in the US. Other cities seem much more cycle friendly, with large bicycle path networks. That said, french drivers, at least around here, seem much, much more aware of, and tolerant of, cyclists. French people also seem much more comfortable cycling as a mode of tranport, confidently cycling with their groceries in a basket, on streets I would never want to ride on. So, it very much depends on what your comfort level is (road vs trail), and what the specific location is like. like. 

As we live in the city center, we walk everywhere, or take public transport when we need to. But, we're considering getting a car just to have a bike rack so we can head out to the nearest voie-vert.


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## Bevdeforges

You probably should plan on coming over to France for a few weeks to see for yourself how practical it is for living with just a bicycle for local transport. Where I live, the roads can be hazardous for bikes - the French notion of road drainage is to cut a trench along each side of the road to collect run off water. And to be honest, 90% or more of the bikes you see on the roads are the bike clubs on their weekend outings which seem to involve practice for the Tour de France. These are hard core bike people, dressed in racing gear, not riding their bikes for transportation or for doing errands. The good news is, however, that because they tend to use those ditches alongside the road for drainage, you don't have to worry about catching those thin bike tires in the sewer grates, like you do in other parts of the world. Still, bike riding is largely for recreational purposes (including racing) rather than for day to day transport.

For living out in the more rural areas, just know that small towns can be spread out so that some of the "hameaux" (the little clusters of houses that form a small village within a town) are at some distance from the center of town or other shopping areas. Public transit isn't all that great outside of the larger towns and getting from one small town to the next usually isn't part of the public transit "system." 

It will take some scouting of locations to find what you're looking for, and in the end, you may need a car if only for making large purchases or reaching specific shopping areas or centers.


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## boilerman

tardigrade said:


> welcome..
> just my 2 cents but don't do as many have done before (mostly english couples) and *purchase something that you will not be able to maintain in your "real retirement years".* This could be a house or a house with land.. Having people do the work is much more expensive than you are used to.


This is so true. 
Also rural is fine, but does it have the facilities that you may need, later on. When you're too remote , puncture repair kits, may be rare


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## Eliora

I live in Brest, a small north western city. My neighbors have bikes and their baby and small child age 3 all go everywhere in town on their bikes with a sort of two seated child buggy they attatchonto their bike. They also have a single child carrier on the frontof the bikes. They have a cottage where they spend weekends by the beach and they take their bikes and the two seated child carrier attached to their car on a bike rack so I think bike ridinghere must be very safe. We have Tram service here too that is very very well connected. The weather is good enough year round for biking if you have a rain coat.

Also it really helps if you speak some French. House prices are affordable. I don't know about repairs or getting people to do gardens and such, we rent an apartment which we are happy with for the next few years at least. You can Find out about visa and immigration requirements so you know what to expect. Many people here as well as the posted threads above will give you a good start I think.


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## ToutesDirections

@MoonlitKnight Your dream is possible - it requires some research. While I live in the US I've traveled around France many times with only a bicycle.

In terms of range, e-bikes are making many longer trips possible.

In terms of safety, as @jweihl says some communities have a friendlier design than others - there's a spectrum. In general, quieter D roads and voies vertes are good places to bike. There is often a quieter road or path into a town or city center that you can suss out during a visit. The laws are also friendlier toward cyclists and one reason cars are more cautious around bikes in France is the real threat of severe legal penalties for hitting a cyclist. 

In terms of types of riders, I believe the area where @Bevdeforges lives is also the area where all the serious cyclists in Paris go to get their open road riding in. They just hop on the RER B or C and ride to the end of the line rather than trying to bushwhack through Paris. So that might explain those impressions. As someone who started biking for transportation and errands and then became a serious cyclist, overlap between categories does exist. In 2019 I met French people cycle touring who weren't serious cyclists..this trend seems rather new and hopeful. 

I'm seeing steady progress now toward better bike infrastructure, in France and across the EU (thanks to the ECF). There's a recognition that bikes are an important transport mode for the future. Whereas in the US I'm not sure we can confidently say the same.

The area where France needs to rapidly improve IMHO - and there's awareness of this - is multi-modal transport options. For example, riding your bike to a train station and just getting on whatever train. Using a bike for first- and last-mile transport, with a bus journey in between. These scenarios are difficult, and will get easier in the near future but it's hard to predict exactly when the pivot will come.

Recommendations:

If you find a town or city in Poitou Charente that seems right, try out your future daily trips on a bike. Rent one if needed. If there's a larger town you'll need to go to often, definitely try out that segment.
If the area has a bus network, confirm that the buses will take bikes.
Assuming the greater area has some train service, at least for getting to/from Paris, check the bike carrying capacity of the trains (usually shown on printed or PDF schedules). Frequent TGV service can actually be a minus as the high-speed trains have minimal to no bike carrying capacity. They will say all you need to do is use a 'housse' but it's not practical to be taking your bike apart like that. TER trains, on the other hand, are easy.
Using bikes or e-bikes in place of cars and living car-free is going to be more and more common. Please keep posting on what you find out and where you land!


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## 255

@MoonlitKnight -- Welcome to the forum! Your plan is certainly doable. As recommended earlier; do a scouting trip (or a few.) There are many areas that meet your requirements and others that do not. Do your research and then make a ground reconnaissance. Some places that seem ideal on paper (or the internet) might not strike your fancy, when you visit in person, while others further down on you "prospect list" may reverberate with you when you arrive.

I lived for a decade in the PNW (WA & BC) and have traveled extensively in Europe (including FR,) and there are many places I could see myself living, long term. My spouse and I are in a similar situation as you (but not early retirees) Various reasons have delayed our own reconnaissance/house hunting trip to 2023. Good luck! Cheers, 255


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## BackinFrance

http://www.ma-voie-verte.fr/velo-tourisme-vacances-poitou-charentes












Poitou-Charentes à vélo - Résumé de toutes les itinéraires à vélo


Les plus belles randonnées vélo dans l'environment de Poitou-Charentes on RouteYou




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Faire du vélo en Poitou Charentes - Les pépites de France


Il n’y a aucun doute là-dessus, le Tour de France 2014 a lancé un peu l’engouement pour le vélo et où mieux prendre des vacances à vélo que la France où tout a commencé en 1903 (histoire du Tour de France)… Nous ne vous proposons pas d’y travailler aussi dur que les cyclistes légendaires – […]




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À vélo


Pour une balade ou une randonnée, choisissez votre circuit et partez à la découverte de la Charente-Maritime, longez le bord de l'océan, parcourez les marais et forêts, faîtes une halte dans les villes et villages...




la.charente-maritime.fr


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## BackinFrance

Be aware that if you move to a village or a very rural location you will have far fewer services, including public transport, health care and shopping.


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## MoonlitKnight

Thank you ALL for your thoughtful and kind replies! It definitely gives me something to think about. I definitely plan to spend time in France for a visit before I commit, but won't be able to do so for several months.
I spent a few weeks cycling in rural Italy and found, as some of you have mentioned about France, drivers are more considerate of cyclists on the roads. I also found, as some of you mentioned, the smaller towns don't have public transportation (I had to rent a car and drive in Florence to get out of town to the agriturismo I had reserved). 
My move to Europe is still a dream, not close to reality, and likely not to happen for at least a year. It's hard to think about leaving the things I know to go to the relatively unknown, even though I was born there and raised by European parents.
Thank you again for your thoughtful replies and your warm welcome.


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## TOrner

Your desires are almost exactly the same as ours when we moved to the Loire Valley of France 9 yrs ago. We have a car now, but perhaps only use it once a week. You're going to need to live in the village for walkability. Our town of Saumur (about 30,000 pop) has been perfect for this kind of lifestyle, although I suspect you'd be able to find plenty of others of a similar size. We're in the Maine-et-Loire Dept 49. Climate is outstanding - not too hot, not too cold, mostly sunny (except during the rainy-ish season Jan-Mar), few severe storms, and a great cost of living. Enough English speakers to make some friends, but not too many that would dilute the French atmosphere. Lots of cycle paths and people are extremely friendly to cyclists. In fact, our mayor just widened all bike lanes in the the city by 30cm. Since we get a lot of bicycle tourism during the Summers, folks are extremely patient with foreigners and they are quite welcomed. One can get a nice house or apartment near or in town for under $300k. 

But like everyone says - visit the area first! Bon courage,


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## MoonlitKnight

TOrner said:


> Your desires are almost exactly the same as ours when we moved to the Loire Valley of France 9 yrs ago. We have a car now, but perhaps only use it once a week. You're going to need to live in the village for walkability. Our town of Saumur (about 30,000 pop) has been perfect for this kind of lifestyle, although I suspect you'd be able to find plenty of others of a similar size. We're in the Maine-et-Loire Dept 49. Climate is outstanding - not too hot, not too cold, mostly sunny (except during the rainy-ish season Jan-Mar), few severe storms, and a great cost of living. Enough English speakers to make some friends, but not too many that would dilute the French atmosphere. Lots of cycle paths and people are extremely friendly to cyclists. In fact, our mayor just widened all bike lanes in the the city by 30cm. Since we get a lot of bicycle tourism during the Summers, folks are extremely patient with foreigners and they are quite welcomed. One can get a nice house or apartment near or in town for under $300k.
> 
> But like everyone says - visit the area first! Bon courage,


Thank you SO much! this is exactly what I was hoping to hear!


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## TOrner

MoonlitKnight said:


> Thank you SO much! this is exactly what I was hoping to hear!


There's a reason so many French kings built their chateaux here, and those for their mistresses as well.


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## MoonlitKnight

TOrner said:


> There's a reason so many French kings built their chateaux here, and those for their mistresses as well.


So they could ride their bikes to visit them...?


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## MoonlitKnight

255 said:


> @MoonlitKnight -- Welcome to the forum! Your plan is certainly doable. As recommended earlier; do a scouting trip (or a few.) There are many areas that meet your requirements and others that do not. Do your research and then make a ground reconnaissance. Some places that seem ideal on paper (or the internet) might not strike your fancy, when you visit in person, while others further down on you "prospect list" may reverberate with you when you arrive.
> 
> I lived for a decade in the PNW (WA & BC) and have traveled extensively in Europe (including FR,) and there are many places I could see myself living, long term. My spouse and I are in a similar situation as you (but not early retirees) Various reasons have delayed our own reconnaissance/house hunting trip to 2023. Good luck! Cheers, 255


Thank you for your lovely reply. 
I'm not ready to move just yet, but I am getting ready - going through possessions and getting rid of things I wouldn't take with me (ie three sets of dishes, stained table linens, ratty t-shirts)
Since I do absolutely love my current home and property, I'm not feeling hurried - it will likely be 2023 before I can actually make a move. I'm a planner and a thinker, so I research everything and make sure I have a plan B and a safety net at all times! Plus, I still need to learn to speak more French than "Je ne parle pas francais" (I speak German fairly well, but that probably doesn't go over too well in France...)


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## MoonlitKnight

boilerman said:


> This is so true.
> Also rural is fine, but does it have the facilities that you may need, later on. When you're too remote , puncture repair kits, may be rare


I ALWAYS carry a puncture kit, CO2 as well as a hand pump, spare tubes and patches, extra water and snacks, money to offer the kind soul who stops to help me on the road.  (even if I'm just riding a little 20K leg-stretcher)


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## MoonlitKnight

BackinFrance said:


> Be aware that if you move to a village or a very rural location you will have far fewer services, including public transport, health care and shopping.


Just like I have now...


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## MoonlitKnight

ToutesDirections said:


> @MoonlitKnight Your dream is possible - it requires some research. While I live in the US I've traveled around France many times with only a bicycle.
> 
> In terms of range, e-bikes are making many longer trips possible.
> 
> In terms of safety, as @jweihl says some communities have a friendlier design than others - there's a spectrum. In general, quieter D roads and voies vertes are good places to bike. There is often a quieter road or path into a town or city center that you can suss out during a visit. The laws are also friendlier toward cyclists and one reason cars are more cautious around bikes in France is the real threat of severe legal penalties for hitting a cyclist.
> 
> In terms of types of riders, I believe the area where @Bevdeforges lives is also the area where all the serious cyclists in Paris go to get their open road riding in. They just hop on the RER B or C and ride to the end of the line rather than trying to bushwhack through Paris. So that might explain those impressions. As someone who started biking for transportation and errands and then became a serious cyclist, overlap between categories does exist. In 2019 I met French people cycle touring who weren't serious cyclists..this trend seems rather new and hopeful.
> 
> I'm seeing steady progress now toward better bike infrastructure, in France and across the EU (thanks to the ECF). There's a recognition that bikes are an important transport mode for the future. Whereas in the US I'm not sure we can confidently say the same.
> 
> The area where France needs to rapidly improve IMHO - and there's awareness of this - is multi-modal transport options. For example, riding your bike to a train station and just getting on whatever train. Using a bike for first- and last-mile transport, with a bus journey in between. These scenarios are difficult, and will get easier in the near future but it's hard to predict exactly when the pivot will come.
> 
> Recommendations:
> 
> If you find a town or city in Poitou Charente that seems right, try out your future daily trips on a bike. Rent one if needed. If there's a larger town you'll need to go to often, definitely try out that segment.
> If the area has a bus network, confirm that the buses will take bikes.
> Assuming the greater area has some train service, at least for getting to/from Paris, check the bike carrying capacity of the trains (usually shown on printed or PDF schedules). Frequent TGV service can actually be a minus as the high-speed trains have minimal to no bike carrying capacity. They will say all you need to do is use a 'housse' but it's not practical to be taking your bike apart like that. TER trains, on the other hand, are easy.
> Using bikes or e-bikes in place of cars and living car-free is going to be more and more common. Please keep posting on what you find out and where you land!


Thank you for this very thorough and informative reply! This information is what I was hoping to receive with my post.
I have been riding a bike for 50 years, first as a child playing in the streets of my neighbourhood, and then, as an adult, commuting while living in San Francisco and in Portland, Oregon. 
While I'm not one of those "training for Le Tour" cyclists (though my lycra wardrobe and Sidi shoe expenditure would say otherwise), I frequently enjoy long (50-100K) rides, either solo or with he local club. My trips to Europe, especially the month I spent cycling in Italy, just reinforced my desire to live in a culture that is more cycling-friendly. 
Thank you again for your information and words of encouragement!


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## ko12

tardigrade said:


> Having people do the work is much more expensive than you are used to.


It is also extremely difficult (at least in our département) to find people to do such work, so we still struggle with débroussaillage.


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