# running a bar



## jpsnwuk (Sep 6, 2018)

Has anyone any experience of whats involved with taking over a lease on a bar?? there is a small bar in Benidorms old town that is 500 euros rent per month, and I am seriously thinking of taking on the lease, what are the pitfalls I need to look out for? what bills, tax etc would I be paying? thanks in advance


----------



## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

jpsnwuk said:


> Has anyone any experience of whats involved with taking over a lease on a bar?? there is a small bar in Benidorms old town that is 500 euros rent per month, and I am seriously thinking of taking on the lease, what are the pitfalls I need to look out for? what bills, tax etc would I be paying? thanks in advance


Although not Benidorm when we came to Spain all those years ago we owned a bar in Benalmadena which certainly was an experience.How much are they charging for the lease and is it a drinks only bar or do they serve food?How long has it been established,what are the reasons for the lease coming up?You say 500€ a month then you will have socilal security on top,possible terrace taxes,possibly changing the license into your name,electric,water,basura which are all add on's which can mount up.Again,although not Benidorm the amount of bars for sale here on the Costa del Sol is just unbelievable.Will the bar be run by yourself or will you have to employ staff?I know when we had ours you could make good money but it was on the food side.I lknow after we sold our bar on we started a small property management business which we made damned good money at and gave us a lot more enjoyment than owning a bar.Honestly wish you the best of luck but there is only you who can make the decision.We have known many failed bar owners over the years but we are not one of them as we are still here nearly 25years later.A greeting.


----------



## jpsnwuk (Sep 6, 2018)

tarot650 said:


> Although not Benidorm when we came to Spain all those years ago we owned a bar in Benalmadena which certainly was an experience.How much are they charging for the lease and is it a drinks only bar or do they serve food?How long has it been established,what are the reasons for the lease coming up?You say 500€ a month then you will have socilal security on top,possible terrace taxes,possibly changing the license into your name,electric,water,basura which are all add on's which can mount up.Again,although not Benidorm the amount of bars for sale here on the Costa del Sol is just unbelievable.Will the bar be run by yourself or will you have to employ staff?I know when we had ours you could make good money but it was on the food side.I lknow after we sold our bar on we started a small property management business which we made damned good money at and gave us a lot more enjoyment than owning a bar.Honestly wish you the best of luck but there is only you who can make the decision.We have known many failed bar owners over the years but we are not one of them as we are still here nearly 25years later.A greeting.


Thank you so much, they want 22,000 for the lease, the bar has no terrace or food, just drinks with a 4am licence, I am open to try any business venture and have money to invest, so any ideas are more than welcome, I am just thinking of ways to be self sufficient


----------



## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

jpsnwuk said:


> Thank you so much, they want 22,000 for the lease, the bar has no terrace or food, just drinks with a 4am licence, I am open to try any business venture and have money to invest, so any ideas are more than welcome, I am just thinking of ways to be self sufficient


22,000 for the lease,how long has it been run by the present owners and is it just a night time bar?Is it a locals bar,tourists bar?Tourists are OK as they are on holiday so they don't care what they spend but the locals can be a different kettle of fish.I know when we got ours we gutted it and made it into a 60's theme bar and when we reopened it we did get some locals in and some whinging because we had put 20pesetas on a tubo.I amnot saying we didn't enjoy it but it was certainly an eye opener and an experience.Although the old town seems to be very popular is it a bar you know well and frequently visit?.Like I said to you,sincerely wish you the best of luck.a greeting.


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

You have to see how many beers they sell in a week (by being a 'customer') and work out if that covers anywhere near the costs (I doubt it will)


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Apart from the difficulties of running a bar in Spain, and it's not easy from what I understand, you need to really investigate what living in Spain post Brexit could mean. That's not going to be easy as we don't know what the conditions will be yet, but it does look like they will be similar to non Europeans who come to Spain now, so you could see what Americans who want to buy a business for example have to do.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I’m confused as this does not relate to your previous post 

There’s a conversation around Brexit. You might want to check that out because in two weeks you may well be a non Eu citizen and running a bar may not be on the visa lists!

What you need to is start research on the requirements for a non EU citizen and that advice applies to anyone reading this and thinking of moving here any time soon.

Unless you have the appropriate visas etc you won’t be doing anything. Harsh but true


----------



## jpsnwuk (Sep 6, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> I’m confused as this does not relate to your previous post
> 
> There’s a conversation around Brexit. You might want to check that out because in two weeks you may well be a non Eu citizen and running a bar may not be on the visa lists!
> 
> ...


I am not sure why you are confused, its quite simple, I want to move to Spain and wa asking about things post Brexit, and now am asking about possible ways I can invest to make a living, I have over 800,000 pounds to buy a property and business, so money is not an issue, I am simply asking for "friendly" advice


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jpsnwuk said:


> I am not sure why you are confused, its quite simple, I want to move to Spain and wa asking about things post Brexit, and now am asking about possible ways I can invest to make a living, I have over 800,000 pounds to buy a property and business, so money is not an issue, I am simply asking for "friendly" advice


That's good. Even post-Brexit you'll be fine. Money will be the main issue post-Brexit, whether it's an issue for you or not.

As for a bar - visit unnanounced at different times of day to count how many beers & coffees are sold. Not by appointment. It isn't unknown for bar owners to 'rent a crowd' when they know a potential purchaser is coming.


----------



## fhanrah (Feb 16, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> I’m confused as this does not relate to your previous post
> 
> There’s a conversation around Brexit. You might want to check that out because in two weeks you may well be a non Eu citizen and running a bar may not be on the visa lists!
> 
> ...


You have mentioned a visa list, do you have a link please


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

fhanrah said:


> You have mentioned a visa list, do you have a link please


This is information for non-EU citizens. It's from the Spanish consulate in San Francisco, but the requirements are the same for most non-EU citizens

Visados


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

fhanrah said:


> You have mentioned a visa list, do you have a link please


How to get a work permit in Spain - SpainGuru

ICEX-INVEST IN SPAIN >> Other immigration information

https://www.expatica.com/es/moving/visas/work-visas-103258/

Various bits of information on these sites and the relevant procedures you go through to gain various visa and requirements


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Rare to see expat bars doing well. Places I know many change hands within a year. Just do the maths. The bars drinks are cheap in Benidorm, they are cutting each others throats. One with no food means a lot of drinks need to be sold just to cover overheads. Do some research.


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Isobella said:


> Rare to see expat bars doing well. Places I know many change hands within a year. Just do the maths. The bars drinks are cheap in Benidorm, they are cutting each others throats. One with no food means a lot of drinks need to be sold just to cover overheads. Do some research.


Would agree you.

You only have to look on business for sale or think Spain and there are more than 20 for sale right now.

And a quick question on Goggle and Wiki travel reckons there may be over 800 bars in Benidorm. 
Im pretty sure that unless I had a totally original idea, Benidorm would be the last place I would buy a bar (although we do visit every time we are over)


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Every week in Benidorm there are bars and bar/restaurants changing hands, refurbing, renaming, offers on beer and food then within weeks the whole thing recycles again.......refurbing etc, etc

We often walk about wondering which bar will be next. Even the busy areas like Calle Gerona and Calle Londres is not immune to that phenomena. The only people who get rich are the companies that do all the refurbing!

Steve


----------



## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

tebo53 said:


> Every week in Benidorm there are bars and bar/restaurants changing hands, refurbing, renaming, offers on beer and food then within weeks the whole thing recycles again.......refurbing etc, etc
> 
> We often walk about wondering which bar will be next. Even the busy areas like Calle Gerona and Calle Londres is not immune to that phenomena. The only people who get rich are the companies that do all the refurbing!
> 
> Steve


In some respects you are right but you forgot to mention the people making good money with no work involved are the people who own the freehold and this is nothing new as it's been going on for donkeys years.Some people are making money.If they were not there wouldn't be any bars to go in.When we first bought our bar all those years ago we got to know two guys who owned the freehold on their bars,although sadly one of them is no longer with us,and his wife sold it on.Location,location are the two main things and I certainly wouldn't stand outside a bar counting how many coffee's and beer's they have done.The books should tell you what they are doing although yes they can be cooked up.The only people I feel sorry for over the years are the people who lost everything for not doing their homework.Today with the internet and all the info. available it should give you more of a chance and reality check.


----------



## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

I had a friend in Mallorca who made a good living from bars.

He bought them, changed the name to something in fashion, had lots of special offers and happy hours, basically worked like a dog for a short time to increase the drinks sales, and sold them asap.


----------



## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Nomoss said:


> I had a friend in Mallorca who made a good living from bars.
> 
> He bought them, changed the name to something in fashion, had lots of special offers and happy hours, basically worked like a dog for a short time to increase the drinks sales, and sold them asap.


Nothing new in what you are saying here pal.It's been going on for years.You say he bought them but what did he buy.Leasehold,Freehold Traspasa.It's more years back than I care to remember but actually do remember when the Irish theme bars and pubs came in and before you knew it there was more Irish bars then anything and for some strange reason they just took off.Think if the OP came up with something different he might stand a bit of a chance but sadly it's all been tried before.Like you say Happy Hour,two for the price of one,open mike nights.play your cards right,bingo.The list goes on & on.If you want to make money get the free
hold on a bar.No work involved.


----------



## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

tarot650 said:


> Nothing new in what you are saying here pal.It's been going on for years.You say he bought them but what did he buy ................


Traspasos. Relatively easy and cheap to buy and sell.


----------



## bojo (May 10, 2009)

Hi there..
there are some quite realistic and unfortunately also rather gloomy perspectives given by posters regarding bar ownership in Spain. 
Quite true for most, but my question to the OP, and you have to be honest with yourself.....you have the cash but do you have the gumption, the work ethic, will your bar be in a fairly good location, do you ind being asked the same questions by inquisitive patrons time and time again (seriously tedious!) will you make sure that the beers are cold, will the food be tasty and offer good value, are you good at controlling your staff, do you preferably enjoy speaking other languages(optional, but very handy), will you have music playlists that suit the atmosphere at that moment (you gotta change it as the clientele changes), are your customers kept cool when it's burning hot outside, are you making the most of the 24 hour day (just being open for breakfast probably won't cut it), and most importantly......
can you create a buzz and atmosphere in your place that makes people want to come back day in day out, and to do that you have to understand how people tick...this is not something that can be taught, you either have it or you don't.
If you have a passion, a theme in mind and you are prepared to work really hard, with the above qualities mentioned, stick at it and you will be very successful.
Please also note that in this business you become a victim of your own success and by that I mean...the minute you walk away and think you can manage remotely or take extended holidays, think again, bacause without you creating that buzz and taking care of the clientele personally on a daily basis, all the hard work that you put in initially will quickly unravel and the bar will be up for sale again........
If 800K is burning a hole in your back pocket and you want to keep fit, both physically and mentally, go for it and I wish you the best, but if you can't commit to such an intense business lifestyle, buy some rentals in the UK, get a nice pension every month and enjoy frequenting some of the great bars and restaurants that I'm sure Benidorm has. I have never been there, but I have owned and run cafe bars for two decades, been successful at it and now prefer to be on the other side of the 'jump'.......
Cheers


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

bojo said:


> Hi there..
> there are some quite realistic and unfortunately also rather gloomy perspectives given by posters regarding bar ownership in Spain.
> Quite true for most, but my question to the OP, and you have to be honest with yourself.....you have the cash but do you have the gumption, the work ethic, will your bar be in a fairly good location, do you ind being asked the same questions by inquisitive patrons time and time again (seriously tedious!) will you make sure that the beers are cold, will the food be tasty and offer good value, are you good at controlling your staff, do you preferably enjoy speaking other languages(optional, but very handy), will you have music playlists that suit the atmosphere at that moment (you gotta change it as the clientele changes), are your customers kept cool when it's burning hot outside, are you making the most of the 24 hour day (just being open for breakfast probably won't cut it), and most importantly......
> can you create a buzz and atmosphere in your place that makes people want to come back day in day out, and to do that you have to understand how people tick...this is not something that can be taught, you either have it or you don't.
> ...


This post should be pinned under the title. 

So you think you want a bar

Excellent post


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Very well said bojo.....


----------



## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

The majority of people I have come across who were really successful in running a bar anywhere were those who had relevant experience in the retail food and drink industry, and didn't fork out their their own money on something they were not properly equipped to run.


----------

