# American newbie looking into moving to S Italy or Malta.



## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

Greetings from S Florida. Would appreciate any kind of info RE life in S Italy and Malta (particularly in urban as opposed to countryside settings). The one question that we ask is the how much on a monthly basis would it cost me to lead a "decent" life in any of those two places. Am not into cars, like urban areas, etc. Thanks Arman do


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Malta is a different country with it's own rules.

If you're American the amount needed to get a visa is far more then you'll need to live on. Decent is a subjective term.


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## pudd 2 (Dec 10, 2008)

latfla said:


> Greetings from S Florida. Would appreciate any kind of info RE life in S Italy and Malta (particularly in urban as opposed to countryside settings). The one question that we ask is the how much on a monthly basis would it cost me to lead a "decent" life in any of those two places. Am not into cars, like urban areas, etc. Thanks Arman do


hi what a coincidence there are two familys from s florida moved here abouts they love it compared to florida not so hot and humid no gaters on lawn ect when you have had more postws I cam pm you their contact details and you can compare notes oh by the way I live in south Italy abruzzo middle of road Italy


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## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

*Modus vivendis*

Hi pudd 2 & Nick Z, thanks for your replies :clap2:. Am almost computer illiterate  ,so am surprised that I was able to register & communicate! In any case, greetings from an extremely hot, sunny and humid, Miami Beach . I know that terms like "decent", "in general", "more or less", "decorous", "you'd be OK", etc., as far as getting an idea of how much money you'd need to live in Southern Italy is a toughie. But an approximation would do :fingerscrossed:. Example: I have friends that tell me that with about 3,000 euros I would live more than well in places like (Southern S)pain, (Languedoc) in France, Croatia, and others. I would say, for another approximation, that with $4,000 MO (after taxes) you'd be in pretty good shape living here in the States. Those are approximate amounts am referring to, given my circumstances (one person, not into cars or luxuries, looking for an urban area, etc.), etc., That's about all am asking. Yep, Malta is turning to be out another beast ! Maybe a couple of MOS there should do it, but am looking to S Italy as a more permanent place to live. Now, "International Living", says that with some 1,500 euros MO you'd be OK, but that one I doubt. Matter of fact am starting to doubt pretty much anything they say. :focus: Here's more: am an EU member; does that make any diff, "moneywise only"? It would be great to communicate with folks from here. I have a heck of a lot of questions I'd like to ask which I'd leave for later. Am also reading Moretti's "Living Abroad in Italy", which sounds pretty good. This is a great site. I've been going through previous posts and have been learning a lot. Look forward to "anything" you'd like to share. Best, latfla


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

€3K after taxes if you buy a home would be enough for an upper middle class life. If you need to pay rent it's still comfortable middle class.

One thing. Most of the cheaper areas you will likely want a car. It's a trade off. Areas with good transit often have higher rents.


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## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

NickZ said:


> €3K after taxes if you buy a home would be enough for an upper middle class life. If you need to pay rent it's still comfortable middle class.
> One thing. Most of the cheaper areas you will likely want a car. It's a trade off. Areas with good transit often have higher rents.



Thanks for your response Nick. Let's bring it down from 3,ooo euros, i.e., from an upper middle class life buying a home, to a middle class situation in an urban area like Bari, renting, and no car. What would you guess may be a nice income?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Are you EU?

I'm not sure you can get a visa at less then €3K a month.

€1500 a month should leave you with money to save for emergencies. That would cover rent,utilities,food and some non essentials.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

NickZ said:


> I'm not sure you can get a visa at less then €3K a month.


Last I checked, qualifying for an elective residency (ER) visa for Italy requires demonstrating _at least_ €3,000 per month per person in ongoing, reliable, legal income that doesn't depend on employment, e.g. investment, pension, and/or rental income. Consulates have the discretion to require more than €3,000 per month if they deem it appropriate.

So that's the income side for qualifying for an ER visa if you need one. How much you actually must spend to live in Italy after arriving is a separate question.

More information is required. Urban (e.g. Bari), renting, no car -- OK, got it. But how would you define a "nice" lifestyle?


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## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

NickZ said:


> Are you EU?
> 
> I'm not sure you can get a visa at less then €3K a month.
> 
> ...



Ah, OK, that's what many people tell me: 1,500 euros MO. Somehow ... dunno, but somehow, that sounds too little. Are you referring to S Italy? Anywhere in Italy? Europe in general? Definitely not Paris!!!???


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## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> Last I checked, qualifying for an elective residency (ER) visa for Italy requires demonstrating _at least_ €3,000 per month per person in ongoing, reliable, legal income that doesn't depend on employment, e.g. investment, pension, and/or rental income. Consulates have the discretion to require more than €3,000 per month if they deem it appropriate.
> 
> So that's the income side for qualifying for an ER visa if you need one. How much you actually must spend to live in Italy after arriving is a separate question.
> 
> More information is required. Urban (e.g. Bari), renting, no car -- OK, got it. But how would you define a "nice" lifestyle?



OK. Am assuming that with dual citizenship, EU member I won't need any authorizations to live anywhere in Europe. Correct? 

I think you answered the "living const issue" in another message. But still, 1,500 euros a month???


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

latfla said:


> Ah, OK, that's what many people tell me: 1,500 euros MO. Somehow ... dunno, but somehow, that sounds too little. Are you referring to S Italy? Anywhere in Italy? Europe in general? Definitely not Paris!!!???


€1500 is the median family income. 

Obviously it depends on how you live. You can starve on far more money or you can live on far less.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

latfla said:


> OK. Am assuming that with dual citizenship, EU member I won't need any authorizations to live anywhere in Europe. Correct?


Whether you have another citizenship besides an EU or EEA citizenship (or Swiss citizenship) is irrelevant for these purposes. You only need the EU/EEA/Swiss citizenship to exercise your treaty rights to live and work in the EU, the EEA, and (mostly, insert footnote here) Switzerland.

As an aside, those EU treaty rights are not _completely_ unlimited. In particular, you cannot be destitute and expect to maintain the right to stay in a country other than the country of your citizenship, even within the EU/EEA.



> I think you answered the "living const issue" in another message. But still, 1,500 euros a month???


No, I'm still wondering what the definition of "nice" is. Some people -- way too many people -- manage to live in Italy with only a tiny public pension. "Nice" refers to a particular lifestyle, but we don't really know what that lifestyle expectation is yet. It's possible to live very inexpensively in Italy -- millions of Italians prove it every day, and some of them think it's "nice" enough -- but you may not be happy with that lifestyle.


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## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

Thanks BBCWatcher, you answered all my questions! Best, latfla


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## rfs799 (Jul 7, 2013)

Knowing which EU country you have citizenship from might help answer your questions better. In general, the further south you go in Italy, the cheaper your life would be.


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## latfla (Jul 1, 2013)

Thanks rfs799. Am decided on checking out Bari. Now am looking for a nice pensione to stay at in Rome/Bari.


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