# Address in Spain



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

I have been studying the very informative posts here about residency requirements and I think I now have a good grasp of the basics.

But I'm not sure about one thing in particular - what does living in Spain mean for the purposes of obtaining residency?

I'll be clear about my intentions - I want to get a 'foothold' in Spain before March 2019; I understand that nobody truly knows what will happen thereafter, but I want to maximise my chances of moving to Spain within a couple of years and it feels like there is some pressure of time involved.

So when I turn up with my EX18 & copies, healthcare policy, Spanish bank statements and passport etc, what will I need to provide as my Spanish address?

Must it be a wholly-owned property, rental, house share, spare room..... or simply an accommodation address? 

What document(s) will be required to support the address? And what if any checks will be made?

As I mentioned, I want to 'transition' (topical term!) to Spain over a couple of years, with the intention of purchasing a house there. But I need to be in the UK to support aging parents for some of the time. What options do I have?


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

concentrik said:


> I have been studying the very informative posts here about residency requirements and I think I now have a good grasp of the basics.
> 
> But I'm not sure about one thing in particular - what does living in Spain mean for the purposes of obtaining residency?
> 
> ...



Reality 

You are either resident here or in the U.K. you can’t “get a foothold” in Spain. 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ties/registering-residence/spain/index_en.htm

I so far as I understand you have to have an address here. I’m afraid I think you’ll have to just wait like everybody else’s and see how things pan out.

Sorry

If I’m wrong someone else will come along and correct me.


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

Thank you, Megsmum; yes that's my understanding as well, you have to have an address in Spain. But can I use the address of my daughter's friend, who is happy to receive mail for me and let me stay whenever I wish (such as when I am looking for places to rent)?

Or must it be somewhere with a rental agreement (in the UK this might be an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement)?

Or the 'title deeds' of a house?

And for these purposes what does 'residence' mean? Never leaving Spain, or not leaving for 90 days, or not leaving for more than a certain number of days?

Confused, I am... the document you link to does not mention address as far as I can see...


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Reality
> 
> You are either resident here or in the U.K. you can’t “get a foothold” in Spain.
> 
> ...



You're correct Megsmum - you don't register as resident unless you ARE resident. 
It doesn't matter if you own it or rent it - but you have to live there.

You will need to prove that you can financially support yourself, & have healthcare provision in place. This provision must be of a level to satisfy the extranjería. 

As for checks - I personally know people who have had the police turn up at the house checking paperwork. British people. 

They were either on the padrón but not registered as resident, or vice versa, & some were both but not submitting tax returns.

They were given a couple of weeks to get their paperwork in order as residents- or 'unregister' from the padrón / residents list & prove that they were resident in another country.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

concentrik said:


> Thank you, Megsmum; yes that's my understanding as well, you have to have an address in Spain. But can I use the address of my daughter's friend, who is happy to receive mail for me and let me stay whenever I wish (such as when I am looking for places to rent)?
> 
> Or must it be somewhere with a rental agreement (in the UK this might be an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement)?
> 
> ...


Residence means living here ..... when you sign the EX18, you are declaring that you are a resident in Spain - that you live here.

If you sign that, but live in a different country, that's fraud.


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

xabiachica said:


> Residence means living here ..... when you sign the EX18, you are declaring that you are a resident in Spain - that you live here.


Is 'living' defined anywhere? Are there prescribed durations, requirements to relinquish connections in the UK etc?

What would happen if I rented a place in Spain, registered as resident, but had to return to the UK for a fortnight to manage a family matter? A month?

Is residence defined in temporal terms or by the absence of residence elsewhere?

I'm not being pedantic, I just need the precise details!


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Honestly, I don't think that there are any legal restrictions as to the time you can spend outside Spain as a resident.

If a UK national wants to have his primary home in Spain, and complies with Spain's legal requirements to do so (income / savings in Spain, private healthcare scheme etc), that is his/her right under EU law.

Of course, if you do make that step and become resident, you would be drawing attention to yourself if you tried to avoid paying tax in Spain by demonstrating that you have spent more than 182 days out of the country..... just to quote an example of something which may be a theoretical possibility for someone like you.


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

Overandout said:


> Honestly, I don't think that there are any legal restrictions as to the time you can spend outside Spain as a resident.
> 
> If a UK national wants to have his primary home in Spain, and complies with Spain's legal requirements to do so (income / savings in Spain, private healthcare scheme etc), that is his/her right under EU law.
> 
> Of course, if you do make that step and become resident, you would be drawing attention to yourself if you tried to avoid paying tax in Spain by demonstrating that you have spent more than 182 days out of the country..... just to quote an example of something which may be a theoretical possibility for someone like you.


Thank you Overandout. I've just spent an hour or so looking for myself and I haven't been able to find any mention of time/movement restrictions.

I looked at the /SNIP/ which helpfully provides an EX18 in English and I can't see a part which looks like an undertaking by the applicant to remain within certain timescales or relinquish other residencies. Perhaps there is a requirement elsewhere, I hope someone here can point me at it.

I have no interest in avoiding paying tax since I am not liable for any, but thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

concentrik said:


> Thank you Overandout. I've just spent an hour or so looking for myself and I haven't been able to find any mention of time/movement restrictions.
> 
> I looked at the /SNIP/ which helpfully provides an EX18 in English and I can't see a part which looks like an undertaking by the applicant to remain within certain timescales or relinquish other residencies. Perhaps there is a requirement elsewhere, I hope someone here can point me at it.
> 
> I have no interest in avoiding paying tax since I am not liable for any, but thanks for the heads-up!


In Spain, all worldwide income is liable to be taxed - why do you think you wouldn't be liable for any?

No, the address isn't asked for on the EX18, & if you're resident, you can spend as much time as you like out of the country.

But if you're resident in Spain, you wouldn't be resident in the UK, so would need private insurance for healthcare there, you wouldn't be able to use your EHIC in other EU countries, so on & so forth (unless you're a pensioner).

And as I said, declaring yourself as a resident without actually living here, is fraud.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

we Have had this question many times. 

I actually contacted the U.K. government re this position, I’m looking for the answer in my emails. It broadly speaking you can only be LEGALLY resident in one country and that’s the country where you have your primary address 

Whether you pay tax or not you have to declare it somewhere and if resident here the. It’ll be in spain. If under pensionable age and living in Spain you can no longer access NHS treatment as that’s based on residency in the UK 

I’m unclear what you are wanting to know

Initially you said 



> be clear about my intentions - I want to get a 'foothold' in Spain before March 2019; I understand that nobody truly knows what will happen thereafter, but I want to maximise my chances of moving to Spain within a couple of years and it feels like there is some pressure of time involved.



Either your living here or your vacationing here residency is not a foothold it’s a legal requirement 

To be resident here you have to live here for 90 days and fulfil all the residency criteria 

Income
Healthcare 
Etc etc


Clearly once resident and here you are liable to pay taxes etc once you’ve been here for 180 days. Including CGT on the sale of any future homes in the U.K. and that included declaration of income whether you pay taxes or not and the declaration of overseas assets ie property, investments etc 

I can’t find the email. It may be on a sticky here somewhere or on another thread. 

Obviously you don’t lose residency here if you “pop” back to U.K. I myself am returning next week as my father is having an operation. I returned at Xmas as my daughter had a child care crisis. Ones allowed to go on holidays. 

It’s complex and basically you want to beat the system before Brexit, which I understand, but personally until we know what Brexit means to those of us living abroad you’re putting yourself in a precarious situation 


I’m confused as to what you want.


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

Megsmum said:


> To be resident here you have to live here for 90 days t.


Thanks again... do you think you could link me to an official site which explains this requirement - is it 90 continuous days? I understood that it was a requirement to register if you stay, or expect to stay... not that you _must_ stay!

I am not trying to 'game' the system. I want to know authoritatively what the regulations are so that I can comply with them.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

concentrik said:


> Thanks again... do you think you could link me to an official site which explains this requirement - is it 90 continuous days? I understood that it was a requirement to register if you stay, or expect to stay... not that you _must_ stay!
> 
> I am not trying to 'game' the system. I want to know authoritatively what the regulations are so that I can comply with them.


Here it is in Spanish. This is from the Home Office (Ministerio del Interior) website. It is not given in English


> *RESIDENCIA SUPERIOR A TRES MESES * Los ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo y de Suiza tienen *derecho de residencia en territorio español por un período superior a tres meses si se encuentran en alguno de los siguientes supuestos:*
> 
> 
> Son trabajadores por cuenta ajena o por cuenta propia en España.
> ...


So, it says you can be here for more than three months if you have enough resources so as not to be a burden on Spain's social services (this figure is different in each area) and that your health care is covered


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

xabiachica said:


> In Spain, all worldwide income is liable to be taxed - why do you think you wouldn't be liable for any?
> 
> No, the address isn't asked for on the EX18, & if you're resident, you can spend as much time as you like out of the country.
> 
> ...


I would not be liable for tax anywhere in the world because I have no income. However I do have capital, which as I understand it is not taxable since I have already paid tax on the portion which was, at the time of receipt, liable to taxation.

Thank you for the observation regarding the amount of time I could, as a resident, spend out of the country, but see below. 

I'm not a pensioner yet and I will contract for private healthcare to satisfy Spanish requirements.

It's possible I'm being really dim but I still cannot reconcile the fact that I can spend as much time as I like _outside the country_ - essentially living elsewhere - with still being a resident.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

concentrik said:


> I would not be liable for tax anywhere in the world because I have no income. However I do have capital, which as I understand it is not taxable since I have already paid tax on the portion which was, at the time of receipt, liable to taxation.
> 
> Thank you for the observation regarding the amount of time I could, as a resident, spend out of the country, but see below.
> 
> ...


You need to check with an expert on Spanish tax.

Presumably you'll also take out health insurance for the time you spend outside Spain too?


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

xabiachica said:


> You need to check with an expert on Spanish tax.
> 
> Presumably you'll also take out health insurance for the time you spend outside Spain too?


I will do that, yes. It's a big commitment to make and I want it watertight. Likewise, my health insurance will be UK & EU and copperbottomed.

And whilst I value all the observations people have made on these (for me) side-issues, I still have not got to the crux of the residency matter.

You say that as a resident I could spend as much time as I like out of the country, but at the same time, _not to actually live there_ could be considered fraudulent. Maybe the upshot of this is that if I *say* I live there, then I do!

But perhaps this is something which simply cannot be explained, so I think I should leave it there, unless anyone can come up with referenced government documents.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

concentrik said:


> I will do that, yes. It's a big commitment to make and I want it watertight. Likewise, my health insurance will be UK & EU and copperbottomed.
> 
> And whilst I value all the observations people have made on these (for me) side-issues, I still have not got to the crux of the residency matter.
> 
> ...


This isn't a government link, but it's well-respected & mentions a Royal decree. It says that (for EU citizens) if you leave for 6 months in 12, you are no longer resident, during the first 5 years of 'temporary' residency. You aren't a 'permanent' resident until after 5 consecutive years are completed.



> Para residentes comunitarios
> 
> (Real Decreto sobre entrada, libre circulación y residencia en España de ciudadanos de los Estados miembros de la Unión Europea y de otros Estados en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo).
> 
> ...


https://www.parainmigrantes.info/extincion-de-la-autorizacion-de-residencia-por-tiempo-fuera-de-espana/


You might never be questioned - but if you were, the way it works in Spain is that you'd have to prove that you DO live here & weren't out of the country. Not that they'd have to prove that you don't.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

And here's the Royal Decree BOE.es - Documento BOE-A-2012-9218

http://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2007-4184


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

Excellent, thank you - that's what my OP was all about!

To summarise my understanding:

* I can apply for and be granted residency tomorrow provided I fulfill the capital, healthcare and citizenship requirements.

* My address ( the place where I live in Spain) can be bought, rented or courtesy accommodation

* I can leave Spain the next day and still retain my residency status, but I cannot remain out of Spain for more than 6 of 12 months without losing my card.

It might look like I'm expecting good hearted people to do the work for me but I don't mean it that way - it's just that Xabiachica _et al_ have a good idea of where to look. Many thanks to all.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

concentrik said:


> Excellent, thank you - that's what my OP was all about!
> 
> To summarise my understanding:
> 
> ...



But. You need to ensure you don’t lose NHS healthcare.

Xabiachica. Do you remember the thread re EHIC where I contacted the Department Of Health and the reply, which I posted stated, you cannot be resident in two countries with regards to healthcare?


Found it 



> Regarding multi-country residency, I can confirm that a person can be resident in two European Economic Area countries at the same time. However, they can only be registered in one, as this confirms healthcare eligibility.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really think you need to seek advice over this...


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> But. You need to ensure you don’t lose NHS healthcare.
> 
> Xabiachica. Do you remember the thread re EHIC where I contacted the Department Of Health and the reply, which I posted stated, you cannot be resident in two countries with regards to healthcare?
> 
> ...


It stands to reason you can't be a resident in 2 countries. If you are resident in Spain for example, which you are after 90 days, then you can't be resident in the UK and you don't receive the benefits of being resident in the UK


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> But. You need to ensure you don’t lose NHS healthcare.
> 
> Xabiachica. Do you remember the thread re EHIC where I contacted the Department Of Health and the reply, which I posted stated, you cannot be resident in two countries with regards to healthcare?
> 
> ...


Yes I said somewhere on this thread that registering as resident in Spain means you lose entitlement to healthcare in the UK. 

Even if you don't register, as I understand it, the UK considers you to be non-resident if you leave for more than 6 out of 12 months.


----------



## concentrik (Sep 16, 2016)

I should leave this alone now since the public healthcare aspect doesn't concern me, but I don't think you _automatically and immediately_ lose access to UK NHS care on registering as resident in Spain.

Entitlement to NHS care rests on whether you are 'properly settled' and in consequence of that 'ordinarily resident'. There is an online tool used by the NHS on the UK Gov website which helps NHS staff to decide the matter. 

There are quite a few questions but none of them focus on whether you have declared residency abroad. I'm cautious about posting a link to it - I inadvertently broke the forum rules earlier today - but Google is your friend.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

concentrik said:


> I should leave this alone now since the public healthcare aspect doesn't concern me, but I don't think you _automatically and immediately_ lose access to UK NHS care on registering as resident in Spain.
> 
> Entitlement to NHS care rests on whether you are 'properly settled' and in consequence of that 'ordinarily resident'. There is an online tool used by the NHS on the UK Gov website which helps NHS staff to decide the matter.
> 
> There are quite a few questions but none of them focus on whether you have declared residency abroad. I'm cautious about posting a link to it - I inadvertently broke the forum rules earlier today - but Google is your friend.


You do automaticallylose it - the email posted by Megsmum says so


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

concentrik said:


> I should leave this alone now since the public healthcare aspect doesn't concern me, but I don't think you _automatically and immediately_ lose access to UK NHS care on registering as resident in Spain.
> 
> Entitlement to NHS care rests on whether you are 'properly settled' and in consequence of that 'ordinarily resident'. There is an online tool used by the NHS on the UK Gov website which helps NHS staff to decide the matter.
> 
> There are quite a few questions but none of them focus on whether you have declared residency abroad. I'm cautious about posting a link to it - I inadvertently broke the forum rules earlier today - but Google is your friend.


Clearly google knows more than the U.K. government then

Our ref: DE-1091743 

  

Dear Mrs 
  
Thank you for your correspondence of 19 July about the European Healthcare Insurance Card (EHIC).  I have been asked to reply. 


A British person registered as a resident in Spain cannot use a UK-issued EHIC to pay for healthcare in Spain, unless they are a state pensioner, a posted worker, a dependant of either of the two and are covered by an S1 form. 



Regarding multi-country residency, I can confirm that a person can be resident in two European Economic Area countries at the same time. However, they can only be registered in one, as this confirms healthcare eligibility. 



I hope this reply is helpful. 


Yours sincerely, 
  Xxxxxxxxxxxx
Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries 
Department of Health 



You asked for advice and the legalities. Like many if you don’t like the answer you can ignore, your life your decision


----------

