# Internet self-employment and bookkeeping



## hiphop (Dec 28, 2008)

Hi all,
I'm moving to spain in the next few months, I'm self-employed and all my income comes from affiliate programs such as Google AdSense that I run on a collection of websites that I own. I'm just wondering if any other expats are living in Spain the same way and whether there are any issues I should be aware of when submitting my tax returns. In the UK I have simply been recording each payment that goes into my bank account, nice and simple, and I'm hoping I can do the same in Spain.


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## kaz101 (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi Hiphop, 

Welcome to the forum. 

Will you still be a resident of the UK? If you are then you'll keep paying the tax the same way you've always done since for UK residents you pay tax in the UK on your worldwide income. 

If you're now a resident of Spain then hopefully one of the other guys will be along to help you since I don't know about tax in Spain. 

Regards,
Karen


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

If you become a Spanish Tax Resident, you will register as autónomo and if you have a half-decent gestor you should pay minimal taxes. A good gestor will always save you more than he charges, Do NOT think UK accountant fees! 

You will however have to pay ca 250 euros per month to join all the Spanish "clubs" ....but that covers you for health provision too. 

If you can make a living wage of Google I take my hat off to you - you must know what you are doing. Not one of the masses of expat "specialists" who last year were selling property and 10 years ago timeshare. Ooops, cynicism, Steve! 

Te deseo mucha suerte


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## hiphop (Dec 28, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> If you become a Spanish Tax Resident, you will register as autónomo and if you have a half-decent gestor you should pay minimal taxes. A good gestor will always save you more than he charges, Do NOT think UK accountant fees!
> 
> You will however have to pay ca 250 euros per month to join all the Spanish "clubs" ....but that covers you for health provision too.
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve (and Karen). Yes I will be giving up my residence here as soon as I find a piso to rent in Spain. That sounds very good, leaving it all in the hands of a gestor and saving money too! I'm making around $2,000 a month from various blog and dating sites, so I'll be looking to rent an apartment around the 500 euro mark. Hopefully my income will increase at the same time as the dollar strengthens against the Euro (fingers crossed!).


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

hiphop said:


> I'm making around $2,000 a month from various blog and dating sites,


You're a pimp then? Top Man! 

Any under 30 Espanolas looking for a hot Celtic man with a Yamaha?


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## Cashers (Dec 29, 2008)

XTreme said:


> You're a pimp then? Top Man!
> 
> Any under 30 Espanolas looking for a hot Celtic man with a Yamaha?


Is that a Yamaha organ???lol


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## Cashers (Dec 29, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> If you become a Spanish Tax Resident, you will register as autónomo and if you have a half-decent gestor you should pay minimal taxes. A good gestor will always save you more than he charges, Do NOT think UK accountant fees!
> 
> You will however have to pay ca 250 euros per month to join all the Spanish "clubs" ....but that covers you for health provision too.
> 
> ...


Steve, Hi. What exactly is the €250 per month for, what are "all the Spanish clubs" that you refer to? Also to whom is it payable? What do you means also by the "health provision"? I have had my Resident Certificate for a year and Empadronamiento too. I have lived off savings for a year whilst sussing things out here and I'm now wanting to embark on two self employed business ventures. I am happy to do my own book-keeping to hand over quartely to a Gestor, but I want to do it correctly in line with Spanish requirements. Do you know of any software I can download that will comply?


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Cashers said:


> Steve, Hi. What exactly is the €250 per month for, what are "all the Spanish clubs" that you refer to? Also to whom is it payable? What do you means also by the "health provision"? I have had my Resident Certificate for a year and Empadronamiento too. I have lived off savings for a year whilst sussing things out here and I'm now wanting to embark on two self employed business ventures. I am happy to do my own book-keeping to hand over quartely to a Gestor, but I want to do it correctly in line with Spanish requirements. Do you know of any software I can download that will comply?


**I mean to be legal and pay into their social security system. There is no sliding scale so the moment you go legal this is paid monthly. This will give you access to the Spanish health system for you and immediate family.

I am afraid that I do not know the sware as I simply give everything to the gestor and he does everything. For me, life is too short to ledger parking tickets or hotel nights especially if he is going to discard them anyway. 

Good Luck .


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## Cashers (Dec 29, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> **I mean to be legal and pay into their social security system. There is no sliding scale so the moment you go legal this is paid monthly. This will give you access to the Spanish health system for you and immediate family.
> 
> I am afraid that I do not know the sware as I simply give everything to the gestor and he does everything. For me, life is too short to ledger parking tickets or hotel nights especially if he is going to discard them anyway.
> 
> Good Luck .


Thanks for that Steve, I guess a Gestor would tell me who to pay? So it's a flat rate of €250 no matter how much or little you earn? Fortunately I enjoy excellent health, but it might be reassuring to have the Spanish Health System to back me up, I ain't getting any younger!!, in the absence of Private Medical Insurance. Is there a certain period of paying into the system before you are able to use the Spanish Health Service? Steve


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Cashers said:


> Thanks for that Steve, I guess a Gestor would tell me who to pay? So it's a flat rate of €250 no matter how much or little you earn? Fortunately I enjoy excellent health, but it might be reassuring to have the Spanish Health System to back me up, I ain't getting any younger!!, in the absence of Private Medical Insurance. Is there a certain period of paying into the system before you are able to use the Spanish Health Service? Steve


Yes, there is a flat rate and that is why so many expats AND Spaniards slope outside the system. 

I enjoyed excellent health - I had been reffing a rugby match in the afternoon - until I had my first heart attack. If you are not in the "clubs" and the worst happens you can have a problem. A dustbin lorry decided to run over the top of my car with me in it 4 years ago. How I came out alive is something I will never know and nor will the police officer who dragged me out of the wreck. Private hospital 24,000 euros bill. "Social Security, sir? That will do nicely"

You are covered from day one, I know that as a fact as a "friend" had kidney stones and refused to pay into the system until he was in agony. His villa rental business profits hardly covered the 220 (as it was) but within days of "coming out" he was at the doctors who referred him to the hospital. I am NOT condoning it ...it happens. Remind me how much I hate medical interpreting ....no you don't need to. I Know!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I think it goes without saying that tax avoidance is a national sport here....so be creative! 

My main problem is the nature of my business (IT/WebDesign) means I have very little outgoings to offset against tax and IVA, and you may well find the same thing. So make sure you get a Gestoria who's "flexible"......ask around for advice in your area.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I could not have put it better myself. 

Your mobile beast of war is no doubt your "company car". 

Meals with sub-30 españolas are "client entertaining" 

Your subscription to "Classic Harley Monthly" is "general office stationery" no doubt.

I don't ask you to comment ....estamos en España.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> I could not have put it better myself.
> 
> Your mobile beast of war is no doubt your "company car".
> 
> ...


Beat up old van more like Steve!

Classic Harley Monthy? You gotta be joking! I'm heterosexual, never lived in a trailer park....or followed NASCAR.

But the meals with sub-30 españolas? Now THAT sounds like a business plan for 2009!


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## hiphop (Dec 28, 2008)

Cashers said:


> Steve, Hi. What exactly is the €250 per month for, what are "all the Spanish clubs" that you refer to? Also to whom is it payable? What do you means also by the "health provision"? I have had my Resident Certificate for a year and Empadronamiento too. I have lived off savings for a year whilst sussing things out here and I'm now wanting to embark on two self employed business ventures. I am happy to do my own book-keeping to hand over quartely to a Gestor, but I want to do it correctly in line with Spanish requirements. Do you know of any software I can download that will comply?


I have read of a Spanish accounting software program that you can download from a government site - I think it's called PADRE, but I haven't found the link yet. I'm sure someone here will know of it.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Cashers said:


> Thanks for that Steve, I guess a Gestor would tell me who to pay? So it's a flat rate of €250 no matter how much or little you earn? Fortunately I enjoy excellent health, but it might be reassuring to have the Spanish Health System to back me up, I ain't getting any younger!!, in the absence of Private Medical Insurance. Is there a certain period of paying into the system before you are able to use the Spanish Health Service? Steve


A GOOD gestor is worth its weight in GOLD. Fortunately mine is family (my wifes cousins wife) so free as well. Spanish accounting is NOT for the weak of spirit. 

The state health service is ime - worth every penny. You'll find this out when you need medication etc. My missus has some special tablets for extreme Migrane. The cost of each 4pack blister of pills is €70. Free from the state.

The 250 btw goes to the Social Security.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

The state health service is ime - worth every penny. You'll find this out when you need medication etc. I has some special tablets. The cost of each 12pack blister of pills is €28. Free from the state.

Also as I have a private plan which means I can get seen within 2/3 hours usually and then if I need medicaments the state doctor will always sign them off for me! 

Estamos en España ..... don't fight it!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

XTreme said:


> I'm heterosexual, never lived in a trailer park....or followed NASCAR.


But by admission work with WebDesign and IT. Frankly I'm not sure which is worse. 






I lie. I'd give up IT and designing webs tomorrow. But I'll be spannering tractors until I cant see any more.


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