# The Greens : advice appreciated



## naga7 (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi

I am thinking of buying a place in the Green s in Thayyal 1. However I have been told by a developer and agent that buildings dont last for more than 35-50 years in the UAE. The building wil have to be knocked down and rebuilt. If thats the case does anyone know how thw owners are comensated and who is liable for the rebuild? I was told that the greens is showing its age just after 7 years!!

I am buying for part rental and then holiday use once a year. I am based in the UK.

Does the greens have alot of creepy crawlies and dangerous one too?? ( I might be buying a ground floor ).

Also is there any videos or photos apart from the standard one shown nearly on every webiste for The Greens??

Any advice or feedback will be appreciated.

Cheers


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

I would not recommend buying in Dubai. Full stop.


Build quality for Emaar properties is not good and none of the newer delopments are really expected to last very long. There are reasons why there are maximum mortgage terms of 20-25 years. If you buy it, the developer has no further responsibility.

Few dangerous insects etc in the UAE, although we killed a red back spider in our garden last year. It's rare to get more than a few ants in an apartment.

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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Most buildings have a lifespan of about 30 years, though this is more common for Commercial Buildings in the West. I am with Elphaba in regards to buying here. The market is relatively new and it is still unclear what your recourse would be in a lot of situations. The build quality is particularly poor in this country - to be expected really considering that they build in bulk and with the aim of making maximum profit. I work in construction and one of the things we look out for when Contractors price our jobs is the use of cheap chinese imitation products that do not last very long. Most developers would be quite happy to accept such products even if they do not conform to the specifications simply because they are cheaper and lead to overall cheaper build price, which means more profit. The fact that they fall apart within a few weeks is of no great concern to most developers!

You will normally have 12 months warranty (mainly for fixtures, electricals, appliances, etc) but in regards to the Greens, that would have long expired so any repairs would have to be funded by yourself. I live in a building that is less that 2 years old and almost everything did not work when I moved into the apartment. Save for the warranty, it would have cost my landlord a small fortune to get everything fixed. Despite being a fairly new building, the paint was peeling when I first moved in and the apartment had to be repainted. You can also imagine the fright I got during the last sandstorm when the balcony starting creaking really loudly. I fully expected to wake up and find the balcony on the road below! To think that when I moved in the agent was boasting that this was one of the highest quality buildings in the Marina!

If you really want to buy, you need to do a lot of research and ask a lot of questions to make sure that you have covered all eventualities. You would also need to come out here and check out the apartment, the area and try and speak to anyone that you know who live there. It won't hurt going to a few agents and getting them to show you a few apartments in that block to see how they're faring and the conditions that they are in. If I meet people in the lifts when I am viewing an apartment, I also like to ask question and get a fair/ honest opinion of the place. That would be recommended in your case as agents will tell you anything to make a sale, especially in this hard-up market.

Best of luck.


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## naga7 (Sep 8, 2008)

Thankyou for your replies..On the forums I have read the people love life in the Greens and the pictures I have seen look really nice of the areas but i appreciate what you have both said and will defintely take it on board. Its a shame because I really like Dubai

But I cannot invest my savings for the sake of owning a property for less than 30 years with no structured recourse for the owners once the property is ready to be demolished!!

Do you think people are aware of this issue?

Thanks


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

Good Advice,

as has been said buildings are not built to last. you would be lucky if many of them last 25 years, that includes some of those Iconic towers unfortuately, I know of one business that is booming in Dubai at the moment. That is building Repairs but the sad thing is that the repairs are to buildings which are still under construction. One company I know of have specialised in this kind of work for 50 years but mainly in Germany/France/UK on buildings that are hundreds of years old, but now their biggest business(80% of total) is in Dubai.

Hopefully this will change and Dubai can then become the city that it has the potential to be.

As for who has resposibilty for the Rebuild, well nobody does. the building comes down! your asset is gone. you do not own the ground, Freehold in Dubai is not the same as Freehold in Europe. this may change with the new Strata laws, but as with any law it will take time to develop.

So I agree with the above, Don´t buy. it just doesn´t make sence, the numbers do not add up.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

mayotom said:


> Hopefully this will change and Dubai can then become the city that it has the potential to be.


Something of the nature of the beast of Dubai tells me that rebuilding every 20 years and the constant construction is something that they dont want to change. Money is always changing hands.


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## naga7 (Sep 8, 2008)

I just dont understand why people were buying up properites before the recession. Like myself they must have been unaware of the situation. 

And I take it Freehold doesnt mean freehold like in the UK where the property and land becomes your sole ownership??

Do you think the situation is different for a villa say in the springs in that its only 2 floors high and you have your small plot of land? So if it needed rebuilding the owner would be able to?


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

naga7 said:


> I just dont understand why people were buying up properites before the recession. Like myself they must have been unaware of the situation.
> 
> And I take it Freehold doesnt mean freehold like in the UK where the property and land becomes your sole ownership??
> 
> Do you think the situation is different for a villa say in the springs in that its only 2 floors high and you have your small plot of land? So if it needed rebuilding the owner would be able to?


No the situation is not different. True freehold does not exist here and bear in mind that there are no democratic rights either. Sadly, people got caught up in the property hype and so many never even read their contracts, let alone engaged a lawyer, before buying. Caveat emptor...

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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

Why is everyone against buying? 

I rather pay a mortgage then pay rent and get nothing.... makes no sense..

Its always best to get into a market when it is brand new..


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Many of us feel that Dubai is not a stable market for purchasing. The concept of absolute ownership is questionable, build quility is poor, future values uncertain. From the point of view of an investment professional it's a poor risk.

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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

Yeah true, but its a gamble... if you go through life like that how can you have any fun or make money? - asteroid could destroy everything tomorrow!


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

marc said:


> Yeah true, but its a gamble... if you go through life like that how can you have any fun or make money? - asteroid could destroy everything tomorrow!


Investing is about quantifiable risk. Too many variables in the UAE property market. Investment advice is what I do for a living.

(Go to dash I'm on the radio in an hour to talk about investing)

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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> Investing is about quantifiable risk. Too many variables in the UAE property market. Investment advice is what I do for a living.
> 
> (Go to dash I'm on the radio in an hour to talk about investing)
> 
> -


Subtle


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

naga7 said:


> I just dont understand why people were buying up properites before the recession. Like myself they must have been unaware of the situation.


Well ask most investors of the time! you will find that they did not treat their purchase as "buying a Property" is was simply an investment, one which they could sell on very quickly and make a profit, where many people lost out was when they didn´t realise that this Meteoric rise in prices was coming to a sudden stop/reversal therefore getting stuck with assets that they couldn´t liquidate. They can´t complete because they have leveraged far too much and now are in Financial trouble. Why did they do this, well its like Elphba says, *Hype* and jumping on the bandwagon.

For many investors location and build quality were relevant because they never intended to complete on the property. The end product would not be their responsibility so why care.

There needs to be more government action to help change the situation, afterall they are the ones who have made the biggest profits from the property boom. Whatever action is taken it will take many years to recover and bring trust back to the Property market.

my twopence

.


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## naga7 (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi thought I had suubmiited this question already but didnt get posted.

Mayotom I really appreciate your constructive 2 pence worth.

Do you think its a safer bet then buying a villa where I assume the owner could rebuild on their plot or the deterioration for villas wouldnt be as bad as with apartments??


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

naga7 said:


> Hi thought I had suubmiited this question already but didnt get posted.
> 
> Mayotom I really appreciate your constructive 2 pence worth.
> 
> Do you think its a safer bet then buying a villa where I assume the owner could rebuild on their plot or the deterioration for villas wouldnt be as bad as with apartments??


As I said earlier, UAE freehold is not absolute ownership as it is elsewhere. This is not a democracy. Whilst there are less villas than apartments, I still do not consider buying one to be a good investment. Property is not a safe investment (especially here) as many people think, as it is illiquid and is a risk like anything else. 

Why do you want to buy in Dubai, when there are many other places where the laws will actually offer _you_ protection?

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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

naga7 said:


> Do you think its a safer bet then buying a villa where I assume the owner could rebuild on their plot or the deterioration for villas wouldnt be as bad as with apartments??


Maybe slightly safer, but I have to agree with Elphaba again..

as for the build quality on a villa, I can´t see it been any better/worse since they are built by the same companies.

maybe you can rebuild on the same plot, but then that is a Maybe. I think you should rent for a while and get to know how things work then make up your mind  

then just use the money to buy a holiday home here in Portugal


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## naga7 (Sep 8, 2008)

I just love dubai. I have young children and have visted twice, Its very child and family friendly and quite cosmopolitan. I like the fact theres no dog dirt in the parks like there is in London. I live just near Holland and Kensington park and its full of it!!

I like the sea and the sand (jumeriah beach park). I think the youth are better behaved and its safer on the whole.

Dubai just seems to me to be a good place to bring up a young family..I suppose grass always seems greener on the other side

However I wouldnt be willing to rent long term and prefer to buy...but dont know what to do after everyones advise!! Seems like a bit of a rip off when I could invest in the UK and know the property will be standing for atleast the next 100+ years and be total ownership if freehold.


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

naga7 said:


> However I wouldnt be willing to rent long term and prefer to buy...but dont know what to do after everyones advise!! Seems like a bit of a rip off when I could invest in the UK and know the property will be standing for atleast the next 100+ years and be total ownership if freehold.


Visiting twice and Living are worlds apart, like it was said before it is best to try for a while and keep a base in the UK, as you know now is the worst time to Sell in the UK, so hold on to it and rent in Dubai for at least 6 months so that you get to know the area better. I´m sure you didn´t buy in London after a few visits. you got to know the area first and then bought?? it should be the same for anywhere in the world especially if you plan to make it your permanent home..

take your time, prices will not go up...


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## naga7 (Sep 8, 2008)

Its ridiculous really because agents (Obviously) have told me prices have stopped falling but in reality once built prices should start going down because buildings only have a limited life span.!! Thanks for all your feedback I really appreciate it. Must say i love this site!


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