# Part 2: The real Egypt, Egyptian and the scam



## ArabianNights

Then we went to the Pyramids and the same as what happened in Luxor happened again. We were the feast and they were the Dogs. We attempted to visit 3 times... each time we got so p**ed off with the hassle, we left... one time, when we decided to see the Pyramids sound and light show, after deciding to avoid the Pyramids during the day because of the hassle, we bumped into a tour guide at the ticket office, who had his customers with him. He oh so kindly said that he can 'help' us after he overheard my younger sister saying that she wants some photos on a camel.... I know the best place to do this is inside the Pyramids themselves during the day and not to go with the scammers outside, but even getting in was an issue which is why we decided to do the sound and light show instead! This guy offered so kindly to drive us to a guy who has camels, where my sister can probably have a 15 minute or so ride with some photos and that he will come and pick us up afterwards! So, with his customers in the back seat, we sat inside the tour bus and when it stopped... surprise surprise it was that notorious village! My sister burst out crying, it was dark not late, but dark.... it was around 7:30pm and we had had enough. We were stuck in some remote village near the Pyramids, not knowing how to get back to the main road and there was this guy who wanted to cheat us out 500 le per person for a 15 minute camel ride, even though we didn't want it (well, my younger sister did, but not in this situation). Of course, the tour bus didnt coome back and then suddenly out of no where... this young Egyptian man comes and says "I know who, you stay at my hotel!!!" We were like "ehhhhhhh???" My sisters were sobbing, I was ready to kill someone, I nearly had ma slippers in my hands about to slap some faces, until he came. Of course I forgot to mention that the nice Egyptian receptionist man at the hotel had constantly been hitting on my 17 year old sister.... making suggestive and obscene remarks to her, in front of us, and calling her his 'girlfriend' and the like... if it wasn't for my sisters, I would have happily dealt with this receptionist on several occasions myself, but they told me to just leave it. This man was so cheap, perverse and disgustingly arrrgghhhh that there were many things that I wanted to do to hurt him. Then we had this random man in this village who claimed to own the hotel we were staying in... and that this receptionist was his cousin. He offered to drive us back to the main gate of the sound and light show and although our trust in anyone Egyptian had completely gone, we had no choice. Thankfully, he did drop us off and when we got back to the hotel, another guest told us that the receptionist's uncle got run over on a road in their home town and had died, and that we wasn't around anymore. 

The day after my sister left Egypt, I took a flight out to civilization - Dubai and I so did not want to come back. When I flew into Burj Al-Arab airport, Alexandria... I was of course ripped off and I even thought that something could happen to me. Since our experiences in Egypt over the last few weeks, I am really having my wits about me. I am starting to really dislike Egyptians.... especially the men, the women are not that great either, from what I have seen. Now I just see them as money hungry dogs, and like my husband once said to me, but I didnt believe him "Egyptians would even sell their mother for money". I have now seen the real Egyptian and the real Egypt. Until now, I have always defended them, simply because they were always the more 'vulnerable' side. They might have a good heart, but they use their religion in vain - the use the name of God in vain. Religion and Islam for them is just a pompous show and nothing else. How they can use Religion and convey their perverse thinking in the same sentence is disgusting. Never again will I defend them. If I had a choice, I would be out of here in the next flight out of this mentally disturbed nation.


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## PaulAshton

All I can say is Egypt is like marmite you either love it or hate it.

My doctor said the other day the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started. 

So today I looked around my house to see things I'd started and hadn't finished and, before leaving the house this morning I found a bottle of imported Baileys, a pack of Pringle's, the remainder of Prozac, the rest of the Cheesecake and a box a chocolates. You have no idea how bloody good I feel, might make Egypt easier.


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## MaidenScotland

They might have a good heart, but they use their religion in vain - the use the name of God in vain. Religion and Islam for them is just a pompous show and nothing else. How they can use Religion and convey their perverse thinking in the same sentence is disgusting. 

Lol didn't you tell me off for saying this the other week? x


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## MaidenScotland

PaulAshton said:


> All I can say is Egypt is like marmite you either love it or hate it.
> 
> My doctor said the other day the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started.
> 
> So today I looked around my house to see things I'd started and hadn't finished and, before leaving the house this morning I found a bottle of imported Baileys, a pack of Pringle's, the remainder of Prozac, the rest of the Cheesecake and a box a chocolates. You have no idea how bloody good I feel, might make Egypt easier.




You use old jokes more often than Bob Monkhouse did


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> They might have a good heart, but they use their religion in vain - the use the name of God in vain. Religion and Islam for them is just a pompous show and nothing else. How they can use Religion and convey their perverse thinking in the same sentence is disgusting.
> 
> Lol didn't you tell me off for saying this the other week? x


Yes, you are right, Maiden. I give you the permission to banish me for my ever optimistic thinking.... ill bow down to you, my Highness. You were right, oh so right


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## ArabianNights

PaulAshton said:


> All I can say is Egypt is like marmite you either love it or hate it.
> 
> My doctor said the other day the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started.
> 
> So today I looked around my house to see things I'd started and hadn't finished and, before leaving the house this morning I found a bottle of imported Baileys, a pack of Pringle's, the remainder of Prozac, the rest of the Cheesecake and a box a chocolates. You have no idea how bloody good I feel, might make Egypt easier.


I agree with the marmite theory. Funnily enough, I went out last night to the supermarket and the first thing I put in my trolly was a box of BBQ Pringles and Ive been munching on the extra extra mature english cheddar cheese that my sister kindly brought for me from England. I might leave the Bailey's for when I am in Heaven. Dare I say it: I am a better Muslim then these so called Muslim Egyptians.


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## gw4khq

Hassle does seem to be getting worse. Took sister in law to the Pyramids last month and there was constant hassle. Takes a long time to get rid of a them and when you do they're instantly replaced.

At the entrance to the road leading to the pyramids there is now a gang of men who jump out in front of cars containing tourists to offer guide services; saw one man hanging on the aerial on the back of a taxi until it stopped.


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## marimar

After everything that's going on in the country at the moment, even without, after being here for a few months and knowing what the people are like, what on earth possesses someone to try to travel, three women alone to Luxor and not expect trouble?
Even Egyptian women wouldn't do this and there have been reports of attacks on men by gangs so safety wise I think it was a big mistake.
Hopefully you have recovered now after your ordeal and hope this serves as a warning to others who may decide to travel alone these days.


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## MaidenScotland

Must admit last night was the first I had been out since Hogmanay as I didn't have my car. I want taken to the door and picked up from it.. it's not worth the hassle from unwanted attention.


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## canuck2010

I have traveled to Luxor a few times since revolution. The thing is, you need to be prepared. Fly on egyptair - no hassle. Train? Bus? Anything could happen. Sure it costs more, but at least you'll get there alive.

Arrange the hotel to pick you up from airport. They'll meet you right at the departure gate. As for tours around Luxor, why bother, the shops in town just sell junk. Check out the shops in the winter palace instead; must safer. Be sure to hire a reputable tour guide and car to take you to the temples. Wandering the streets of Luxor without the aid of a local guide is just asking for trouble.

Regarding the Pyramids, I had the luck of meeting a manager for the sound and light company in Cairo and they arranged VIP tickets for us, a nice van for pick up drop off, and front row seats, we just cut in line ahead of all the tourists when we got there. 

Just realize you're in a developing country, and that everyone is out to make money. The economy is in the dumps and people can hardly feed themselves. Once this is clear, making proper plans can ensure a perfect trip.


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## aykalam

gw4khq said:


> Hassle does seem to be getting worse. Took sister in law to the Pyramids last month and there was constant hassle. Takes a long time to get rid of a them and when you do they're instantly replaced.
> 
> At the entrance to the road leading to the pyramids there is now a gang of men who jump out in front of cars containing tourists to offer guide services; saw one man hanging on the aerial on the back of a taxi until it stopped.


It's called desperation: sure Egyptians have always been great pests when around tourists but right now these guys are desperate for any money they can make


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## crewmeal

I hope the UK press or travel trade get hold of this otherwise we'll be reading the usual horror stories about life in Egypt.

Without wishing to put a damper on this story these sorts of incidents happen in other developing countries across the globe. It's a shame though that it has reached a beautiful country such as Egypt.


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## ArabianNights

marimar said:


> After everything that's going on in the country at the moment, even without, after being here for a few months and knowing what the people are like, what on earth possesses someone to try to travel, three women alone to Luxor and not expect trouble?
> Even Egyptian women wouldn't do this and there have been reports of attacks on men by gangs so safety wise I think it was a big mistake.
> Hopefully you have recovered now after your ordeal and hope this serves as a warning to others who may decide to travel alone these days.


I think I know and realize that traveling around alone ANYWHERE in Egypt these days is a big no no.... but what is one to do? I am here alone in Egypt, I live alone. Situation is such that I do not have anyone to escort me to places, as much as I want to.


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## ArabianNights

canuck2010 said:


> I have traveled to Luxor a few times since revolution. The thing is, you need to be prepared. Fly on egyptair - no hassle. Train? Bus? Anything could happen. Sure it costs more, but at least you'll get there alive.
> 
> Arrange the hotel to pick you up from airport. They'll meet you right at the departure gate. As for tours around Luxor, why bother, the shops in town just sell junk. Check out the shops in the winter palace instead; must safer. Be sure to hire a reputable tour guide and car to take you to the temples. Wandering the streets of Luxor without the aid of a local guide is just asking for trouble.
> 
> Regarding the Pyramids, I had the luck of meeting a manager for the sound and light company in Cairo and they arranged VIP tickets for us, a nice van for pick up drop off, and front row seats, we just cut in line ahead of all the tourists when we got there.
> 
> Just realize you're in a developing country, and that everyone is out to make money. The economy is in the dumps and people can hardly feed themselves. Once this is clear, making proper plans can ensure a perfect trip.



We did an organized tour to the Valley of the Kings and the two statue thingies, whatever they are called.. oh yes the collseum of Memnom or whoever he was. Im all pharoah-ed out, they all look the same to me. Even with our own car and tour guide, the hassle never stopped. In fact the tour guides also try to rip you off. The hotel in Cairo we stayed at also tried to rip us off selling us tours at more then higher the premium rate and I bet you 99% of the time, they would make more money from you, buy taking you to other places, like shops that sell souvenir crap where you are emotional tricked into buying something, This is what happened to us in Luxor - we were taken to a remote shop by our guide and emotionaly tricked into buying one of those alabaster jars.


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> We did an organized tour to the Valley of the Kings and the two statue thingies, whatever they are called.. oh yes the collseum of Memnom or whoever he was. Im all pharoah-ed out, they all look the same to me. Even with our own car and tour guide, the hassle never stopped. In fact the tour guides also try to rip you off. The hotel in Cairo we stayed at also tried to rip us off selling us tours at more then higher the premium rate and I bet you 99% of the time, they would make more money from you, buy taking you to other places, like shops that sell souvenir crap where you are emotional tricked into buying something, This is what happened to us in Luxor - we were taken to a remote shop by our guide and emotionaly tricked into buying one of those alabaster jars.



I feel for you.. a few years ago I was downtown with a friend and he went off in one direction and myself in another.. to cut a long story short I got waylaid into a perfume shop and I am an old had at living here.. these Egyptians are very good at getting you to part with money


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## MaidenScotland

crewmeal said:


> I hope the UK press or travel trade get hold of this otherwise we'll be reading the usual horror stories about life in Egypt.
> 
> Without wishing to put a damper on this story these sorts of incidents happen in other developing countries across the globe. It's a shame though that it has reached a beautiful country such as Egypt.




[email protected]


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> I feel for you.. a few years ago I was downtown with a friend and he went off in one direction and myself in another.. to cut a long story short I got waylaid into a perfume shop and I am an old had at living here.. these Egyptians are very good at getting you to part with money


We went to visit the old coptic Cairo, as we wanted to visit some of the churches there and the old synagogue and we were walking along that road, where there are some souvenir shops. Those stores in particular have a well known trick. They say that they want you to write something for them - maybe something in you 'language' or teach them a spelling for a word or whatever they may think of on that day. That way they get you into the store. They offer you tea/coffee, have a chit chat. Ironically, they say something along the lines of "dont worry, no hassle here, no hassle here... feel free to take your time and have a look around...." Even in Luxor, they kept saying "no hassle, no hassle", the fact that they were doing that in the first place was hassle! This is how the emotionally trick you into parting with cash.... its so sad.


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> We went to visit the old coptic Cairo, as we wanted to visit some of the churches there and the old synagogue and we were walking along that road, where there are some souvenir shops. Those stores in particular have a well known trick. They say that they want you to write something for them - maybe something in you 'language' or teach them a spelling for a word or whatever they may think of on that day. That way they get you into the store. They offer you tea/coffee, have a chit chat. Ironically, they say something along the lines of "dont worry, no hassle here, no hassle here... feel free to take your time and have a look around...." Even in Luxor, they kept saying "no hassle, no hassle", the fact that they were doing that in the first place was hassle! This is how the emotionally trick you into parting with cash.... its so sad.



I went to the Khan a couple of weeks ago and I wasn't unduly hassled.. but I had young Egyptian lad with me who told everyone that I was married to his brother


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> I went to the Khan a couple of weeks ago and I wasn't unduly hassled.. but I had young Egyptian lad with me who told everyone that I was married to his brother


The Khan itself isnt so bad, after a while they back off. However, you've just reminded me of an incident by the Al Hussain Mosque that happened to us a few weeks ago. Me and my sisters went to the Arabian-Indian restaurant above one of the shops opposite the Mosque and had a meal. There was some leftover and we decided to take it with us. They packed it for us and off we went. We realized that we'd never get around to eating it, so we wanted to give the food to one of the many poor sleeping around the Mosque .... as you know, there are many, many ripp off bread sellers in that area. They approach all Muslim tourists and ask them to buy all the bread for 'sadaqa'. Sadaqa is an Islamic form of giving Charity, to gain the happiness and reward from Allah. What these bread people want is to sell the bread to Muslims, and then the bread is distributed to the poor who live around the Mosque. When we went to a poor man and gave him our food... we were hassled constantly by the bread man. Kept saying no, no, no and that our own food we are giviing is our sadaqa and we do not need your bread. He tricked us. Using Islam - he tricked us into giving his bread as Sadaqa. After we gave our food to the poor man - the bread man put down his bread and he just asked me, "is this for Sadaqa for the poor?" Thinking that he was referring to my own food that I gave to the man, I said yes. As soon as I uttered the words "Yes", hordes of people out of NOWHERE came running towards to bread, like animals and within a split second, it was all gone. It was a horrific scenE I had never seen such desperation in my life. We were tricked and now he said that because I said 'yes', I had an Islamic obligation to pay him 50 le! I was so p**ed to say the least, the night ended in argument about money and in the end they managed to get 10 le from us. Afterwards they laughed their heads off like it was a joke. These people make me sick. Worse thing is they call themselves Muslims


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## gw4khq

MaidenScotland said:


> I feel for you.. a few years ago I was downtown with a friend and he went off in one direction and myself in another.. to cut a long story short I got waylaid into a perfume shop and I am an old had at living here.. these Egyptians are very good at getting you to part with money


My wife didn't like the perfume when I got it home, either.


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## ArabianNights

gw4khq said:


> My wife didn't like the perfume when I got it home, either.


funny you talk about perfume... I have been at it the whole day today, mixing some oils that I got in Dubai. I got 3 small bottles of pure perfume oils in 3 different scents, white musk, saffron and one mixed. I paid around 3 english pounds in total for all three.... in Egypt, each bottle of the same thing costs around 30 english pounds!


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## crewmeal

> [email protected]





MaidenScotland said:


> [email protected]


Yeah ok maybe my choice of a verb was wrong, but you get my drift


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## timllmixit

@ArabianNights..interesting read. So where are you currently? I am in Maadi, Cairo...have been here a year and a half now. Currently facing some hard times (these warrant a topic of their own) but although i never had quite the time you did, i totally understand your frustrations.

Where are you from, i built up the image that you are born in the UK but to arabic parents? And you are married? Where was your husband during this ordeal?

I know...a million questions. But if it helps, and if you are in Cairo, feel free to get in touch. I feel we brits should come together at times like this! Maybe we can make each's experience a bit easier


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> I feel for you.. a few years ago I was downtown with a friend and he went off in one direction and myself in another.. to cut a long story short I got waylaid into a perfume shop and I am an old had at living here.. these Egyptians are very good at getting you to part with money


Lol.....well i am sure all off us old hats have been there and fallen for the same thing but put it all down to experience and live and learn.


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## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> I think I know and realize that traveling around alone ANYWHERE in Egypt these days is a big no no.... but what is one to do? I am here alone in Egypt, I live alone. Situation is such that I do not have anyone to escort me to places, as much as I want to.


Really think you are not enjoying the life in egypt so if that is the case anything and everything will get to you so you either have to take the life easy and try and understand the way of life in egypt or get out....because believe me in the frame of mind that you seem to be in at the moment egypt will drive you crazy if you stay.


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## firstfossil

I'm sorry to hear that it was that bad in Luxor. 

However, in my experience aggressive hassle was far worse in the northern cities of Morocco. In Egypt, I can shake it off with smiles, in Tangiers I was called "******", "scorpion", "racist" in the space of a three hour hop from Spain.


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## MaidenScotland

firstfossil said:


> I'm sorry to hear that it was that bad in Luxor.
> 
> However, in my experience aggressive hassle was far worse in the northern cities of Morocco. In Egypt, I can shake it off with smiles, in Tangiers I was called "******", "scorpion", "racist" in the space of a three hour hop from Spain.




Regardless of the hassle in other countries we are trying to live in Egypt and it is about time they learned in tourist areas not to bite the hand that feeds them.


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## ArabianNights

timllmixit said:


> @ArabianNights..interesting read. So where are you currently? I am in Maadi, Cairo...have been here a year and a half now. Currently facing some hard times (these warrant a topic of their own) but although i never had quite the time you did, i totally understand your frustrations.
> 
> Where are you from, i built up the image that you are born in the UK but to arabic parents? And you are married? Where was your husband during this ordeal?
> 
> I know...a million questions. But if it helps, and if you are in Cairo, feel free to get in touch. I feel we brits should come together at times like this! Maybe we can make each's experience a bit easier


Hi timllmixit 

I am living in Alexandria and I do travel to Cairo every now and then to 'escape' (usually to City Stars mall) I am from London and yes I was married. The plan was that my husband was meant to join me here - it was never that I was meant to be alone. However, because he has an asian passport, he cannot arrive and get a visa at the airport... he needs to go through the embassy. We attempted to apply 2 times and they rejected his application for silly reasons. We made the mistake of disclosing in the application that he plans to stay with me here for the year and study arabic. I realize now that if he had just mentioned that he wanted to visit on a holiday, then he would have probably got it, no problems. Now they are making a song and dance of things, so now I am alone here. 

Would be deffo nice to meet up when I am in Cairo next... ill let you know when I am


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## ArabianNights

firstfossil said:


> I'm sorry to hear that it was that bad in Luxor.
> 
> However, in my experience aggressive hassle was far worse in the northern cities of Morocco. In Egypt, I can shake it off with smiles, in Tangiers I was called "******", "scorpion", "racist" in the space of a three hour hop from Spain.


I have also done the Spain-Morocco ship hop. I think thats another nightmare for another thread. Although I can safely say I will never be returning to Morocco any time soon.


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## ArabianNights

hurghadapat said:


> Really think you are not enjoying the life in egypt so if that is the case anything and everything will get to you so you either have to take the life easy and try and understand the way of life in egypt or get out....because believe me in the frame of mind that you seem to be in at the moment egypt will drive you crazy if you stay.


I really try to adopt a positive attitude, until something comes along and places a damper on it.... Every aspect of life here is hard. Small things gather together and create a huge problem. For example, having to hide the fact that I am 'foreign' and taking on a fake Egyptian identity everytime I go out... i.e not open my mouth unless I have to, otherwise the dogs will be at me. OK, I can deal with that. Next thing - my bowab regularly comes up with reasons why I need to pay more money to him, such as the building need re-wiring, plumber needs to come etc...Its OK, its Egypt, I can deal with that and I am 'foreign' so its right that I should be expected to pay a bit more as people say rolleyes. Next thing - the ripping off. OK, again I can deal with that, Egypt has many many other nice things about it to make this tolerable. I can sit on the nile if I want to, I can go to the beach when I want, since I live 5 minutes away from it etc etc.  Next thing - food. When I was in the UK, i enjoyed the regular take out, because I had a busy life and not always time to cook, certain things I used to get from my local Indian/Pakistani take out. Not here. Fine, its egypt, I can deal with that and make a compromise. I cook a lot more now, but this means I have much less time on my hands to do things I really need to do, including my studies. I spend most my time at home in the kitchen. OK, fine, I can deal with that - I am only here temporarily. Next thing, I have no microwave, I am not going to fork out money for a new microwave and toaster, when I am here for only a year and then leave it to my landlord. OK, fine I can deal with it - it just means I need to spend MORE time in the kitchen to re-heat everything on the stove. When I take a shower, I have to be fast, because the hot water runs out fast and it takes the boiler thing time before it produces more. OK, fine deal with - be faster in the shower. Next thing. The place where I live is quite far from my university and is around a 20/25le taxi ride away - too expensive. So I take the local microbus everyday to university. This is one beauty of Egypt, I tell ya! Except in rush hour! I have to stand sometimes waiting for a meekro that has a space to sit in, sometimes for upto 1 hour per day. I cannot afford to take a cab 5 days a week to university, and back. It all adds up. So, I have to be extra extra early in leaving home and I come home much later then my classmates reach their home. Finding a place to live in Alexandria was like getting blood out of a stone and living where I am now was a compromise I also had to make, because there simply were no other options. 

If I have all these small things put together and considering the fact that I do not have small pleasures that usually comes to expats who live in a place like Egypt.... such as maids and drivers and whatnot, my experience here and the compromises that I have had to make in order to live here are not equal to the nice things that Egypt has to offer. And those too, I have to 'enjoy' alone.


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## ArabianNights

timllmixit - I just read my comment again lol.... I wrote "I was married".... I AM married lol. Though it doesnt feel like it!


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## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> I really try to adopt a positive attitude, until something comes along and places a damper on it.... Every aspect of life here is hard. Small things gather together and create a huge problem. For example, having to hide the fact that I am 'foreign' and taking on a fake Egyptian identity everytime I go out... i.e not open my mouth unless I have to, otherwise the dogs will be at me. OK, I can deal with that. Next thing - my bowab regularly comes up with reasons why I need to pay more money to him, such as the building need re-wiring, plumber needs to come etc...Its OK, its Egypt, I can deal with that and I am 'foreign' so its right that I should be expected to pay a bit more as people say rolleyes. Next thing - the ripping off. OK, again I can deal with that, Egypt has many many other nice things about it to make this tolerable. I can sit on the nile if I want to, I can go to the beach when I want, since I live 5 minutes away from it etc etc.  Next thing - food. When I was in the UK, i enjoyed the regular take out, because I had a busy life and not always time to cook, certain things I used to get from my local Indian/Pakistani take out. Not here. Fine, its egypt, I can deal with that and make a compromise. I cook a lot more now, but this means I have much less time on my hands to do things I really need to do, including my studies. I spend most my time at home in the kitchen. OK, fine, I can deal with that - I am only here temporarily. Next thing, I have no microwave, I am not going to fork out money for a new microwave and toaster, when I am here for only a year and then leave it to my landlord. OK, fine I can deal with it - it just means I need to spend MORE time in the kitchen to re-heat everything on the stove. When I take a shower, I have to be fast, because the hot water runs out fast and it takes the boiler thing time before it produces more. OK, fine deal with - be faster in the shower. Next thing. The place where I live is quite far from my university and is around a 20/25le taxi ride away - too expensive. So I take the local microbus everyday to university. This is one beauty of Egypt, I tell ya! Except in rush hour! I have to stand sometimes waiting for a meekro that has a space to sit in, sometimes for upto 1 hour per day. I cannot afford to take a cab 5 days a week to university, and back. It all adds up. So, I have to be extra extra early in leaving home and I come home much later then my classmates reach their home. Finding a place to live in Alexandria was like getting blood out of a stone and living where I am now was a compromise I also had to make, because there simply were no other options.
> 
> If I have all these small things put together and considering the fact that I do not have small pleasures that usually comes to expats who live in a place like Egypt.... such as maids and drivers and whatnot, my experience here and the compromises that I have had to make in order to live here are not equal to the nice things that Egypt has to offer. And those too, I have to 'enjoy' alone.


I fully understand how you feel as i also didn't live on an ex-pat package and those that do really do live in a bubble and a very nice one it is too with drivers,maids and many bills paid as well.I was not in the same financial situation as you are and also had a very nice house which i rented but still life got very stressful at times and did miss many things especially food items.One good thing for you is you are only there for one year so try and make the best of it and as much as possible don't let it get to you.


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## ArabianNights

hurghadapat said:


> I fully understand how you feel as i also didn't live on an ex-pat package and those that do really do live in a bubble and a very nice one it is too with drivers,maids and many bills paid as well.I was not in the same financial situation as you are and also had a very nice house which i rented but still life got very stressful at times and did miss many things especially food items.One good thing for you is you are only there for one year so try and make the best of it and as much as possible don't let it get to you.


Thanks so much, Pat - its nice to know that someone understands


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## PaulAshton

Just because someone is foreign does NOT make it acceptable to have to pay more simply refuse 

No sign of cooks, cleaners or garden people here we do everything ourselves or we would be the King and Queen of Cellulite that's just an excuse to be lazy and make use of cheap labour.

If it was the UK where it was more expensive most people would do it themselves..


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## ArabianNights

PaulAshton said:


> Queen of Cellulite


Now that didn't conjure up a very nice image in my head.... I dont know why but cellulite along with Kate and Will came to mind. Thanks.


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## expatagogo

PaulAshton said:


> Just because someone is foreign does NOT make it acceptable to have to pay more simply refuse


Says the guy offering up details about how he "rips off" the locals.

Pot, meet kettle.



PaulAshton said:


> No sign of cooks, cleaners or garden people here we do everything ourselves or we would be the King and Queen of Cellulite that's just an excuse to be lazy and make use of cheap labour.


Really? You beat and scrub rugs yourself? Methinks NOT.

All things considered, Egyptian labor is not cheap. I pay the girl who cooks and cleans for me her going rate. In addition, I pay her taxi fare to and from my flat. While she's here, I cook lunch. Then, I give her a tip on her way out the door. She's young and she's saving to get married. Would my money be better off sunk in a no-interest savings account, or giving her an honest living and something to look forward to.

It's not laziness. I could shuffle the furniture around and scrub all by myself. However, I've reached a point where a.) I can afford to have someone else do it, b.) I don't want to do it, and c.) I'm in a place where there are people happy to do it for a job. There's nothing - zip, zero, zilch - wrong with that.



PaulAshton said:


> If it was the UK where it was more expensive most people would do it themselves..


I've never been to the UK, but I'm certain there isn't constant, 24-hour construction tossing dust into flats, nor are the floors commonly ceramic throughout, and sweeping one room doesn't result in a dustpan full.

Puleeeze.


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## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> Says the guy offering up details about how he "rips off" the locals.
> 
> Pot, meet kettle.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You beat and scrub rugs yourself? Methinks NOT.
> 
> All things considered, Egyptian labor is not cheap. I pay the girl who cooks and cleans for me her going rate. In addition, I pay her taxi fare to and from my flat. While she's here, I cook lunch. Then, I give her a tip on her way out the door. She's young and she's saving to get married. Would my money be better off sunk in a no-interest savings account, or giving her an honest living and something to look forward to.
> 
> It's not laziness. I could shuffle the furniture around and scrub all by myself. However, I've reached a point where a.) I can afford to have someone else do it, b.) I don't want to do it, and c.) I'm in a place where there are people happy to do it for a job. There's nothing - zip, zero, zilch - wrong with that.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been to the UK, but I'm certain there isn't constant, 24-hour construction tossing dust into flats, nor are the floors commonly ceramic throughout, and sweeping one room doesn't result in a dustpan full.
> 
> Puleeeze.




I am quite happy to be waited on hand and foot.. I was born to be a princess but no one told my father. I have live in staff and basically do sod all, although there are occasions I do my own ironing and in the past week I have cooked 3 times. I occasionally flick a duster.

My staff are paid pretty well, they are fed, all meals are provided as is medicine and toiletries I even pay for haircuts,


In the UK I had a live in housekeeper and gardener plus an aupair.. 


And why not?


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## ArabianNights

Bloody 'ell you lot seem to live a life of luxury.... I have never had any of what you all describe once in my life! I slave myself down day in day out... I have to wash my clothes in a semi auto machine where I have to physically take the water in and out myself.... I dont even have hot water in my apartment, apart from in my bath tub where it lasts no longer then 10 minutes - it is freezing cold, and I am in Alexandria, where the winter is biting. I may as well be a poor Egyptian slum dweller in comparison to you lot


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## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> Bloody 'ell you lot seem to live a life of luxury.... I have never had any of what you all describe once in my life! I slave myself down day in day out... I have to wash my clothes in a semi auto machine where I have to physically take the water in and out myself.... I dont even have hot water in my apartment, apart from in my bath tub where it lasts no longer then 10 minutes - it is freezing cold, and I am in Alexandria, where the winter is biting. I may as well be a poor Egyptian slum dweller in comparison to you lot


Dunno how you ended up with your flat, but I'm in Alexandria and I have a whole lot more for a whole lot less than you're paying.

And are you talking about the washer with the spinner? If so, those are my favorite, but there should be a hose for the water. Or am I not understanding correctly?


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## ArabianNights

expatagogo said:


> Dunno how you ended up with your flat, but I'm in Alexandria and I have a whole lot more for a whole lot less than you're paying.
> 
> And are you talking about the washer with the spinner? If so, those are my favorite, but there should be a hose for the water. Or am I not understanding correctly?


My rent is 2000LE per month and I pay my landlord at least 2-3 months rent in advance... the water system here is crap to say the least. In the kitchen the water from the tap is low pressure and freezing... I am actually worried Ill get arthritis, even my fingers have started twitching. Water in the bathroom is a trickle at times.... though my shower pressure is good and it gets hot, but doesn't last for very long. Its a big apartment, and it gets cold. I have seen worse then what I have. I am sure you probably live in Kafr Abdo or somewhere like that. Yes, that is the machine you describe, the hose piping works OK, sometimes.... but washing clothes is time consuming, having to fill with water and then drain it... and then refill again for the rinse (otherwise youll spin your clothes with the soap still attached to it) and of course 15 minutes is not enough to wash clothes... so I have to keep restarting it, until its washed for at least an hour, like normal washing machines. And all in cold water.


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## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> My rent is 2000LE per month and I pay my landlord at least 2-3 months rent in advance... the water system here is crap to say the least. In the kitchen the water from the tap is low pressure and freezing... I am actually worried Ill get arthritis, even my fingers have started twitching. Water in the bathroom is a trickle at times.... though my shower pressure is good and it gets hot, but doesn't last for very long. Its a big apartment, and it gets cold. I have seen worse then what I have. I am sure you probably live in Kafr Abdo or somewhere like that. Yes, that is the machine you describe, the hose piping works OK, sometimes.... but washing clothes is time consuming, having to fill with water and then drain it... and then refill again for the rinse (otherwise youll spin your clothes with the soap still attached to it) and of course 15 minutes is not enough to wash clothes... so I have to keep restarting it, until its washed for at least an hour, like normal washing machines. And all in cold water.


You're being robbed. For that kind of rent, you could be living a whole lot better. As I said, I pay a lot less for a lot more (and I'm just up the street from your neighborhood).

Tell whoever you're renting from you want hot water in the kitchen. Either they can buy another heater (150 LE) and have it installed, or work the plumbing around. For the outrageous rent you're paying, that's the least they can do. Do they live in the building and know the water pressure is bad? A pump is a solution and if you're having a problem the chances are good the neighbors in your building are, too.

I have that type of washer and, as I said, it's my favorite. Washing to get my clothes clean doesn't take more than the 15 minute cycle, but I do rinse until the rinse water is clean - which is never just once.


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> My rent is 2000LE per month and I pay my landlord at least 2-3 months rent in advance... the water system here is crap to say the least. In the kitchen the water from the tap is low pressure and freezing... I am actually worried Ill get arthritis, even my fingers have started twitching. Water in the bathroom is a trickle at times.... though my shower pressure is good and it gets hot, but doesn't last for very long. Its a big apartment, and it gets cold. I have seen worse then what I have. I am sure you probably live in Kafr Abdo or somewhere like that. Yes, that is the machine you describe, the hose piping works OK, sometimes.... but washing clothes is time consuming, having to fill with water and then drain it... and then refill again for the rinse (otherwise youll spin your clothes with the soap still attached to it) and of course 15 minutes is not enough to wash clothes... so I have to keep restarting it, until its washed for at least an hour, like normal washing machines. And all in cold water.




They saw you coming.
Give your landlord notice.. tell them you are leaving if you don't have decent hotwater and decent appliances. Tell your bowab you are looking for new premises and ask him if he knows anywhere, ask the shopkeeper, ask at the college.. ask anyone you come across.. 

The bowab will tell your landlord that you are looking for somewhere..

No wonder you are depressed.


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> They saw you coming.
> Give your landlord notice.. tell them you are leaving if you don't have decent hotwater and decent appliances. Tell your bowab you are looking for new premises and ask him if he knows anywhere, ask the shopkeeper, ask at the college.. ask anyone you come across..
> 
> The bowab will tell your landlord that you are looking for somewhere..
> 
> No wonder you are depressed.


EXACTLY, Maiden. Every direction I look there are empty flats. Not only that, they're on a 24/7 building spree, either putting up new buildings or stacking on a 20th floor with nothing but wood sticks to support the brick and mortar.

The tourists aren't here and there are flats galore. If her building owner isn't decent enough to give her 21st century living conditions, there are plenty more to pick from.


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## MaidenScotland

Why not go to a small hotel and tell them you have 2000 a month for rent.. in these hard times they just might let you have a room.. you will have heat and hot water. you can buy a kettle for cuppa soup etc.. have lunch out.


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## marenostrum

ArabianNights said:


> Bloody 'ell you lot seem to live a life of luxury


These are expat packages that are available in most third world countries and others to foreigners working there. If it was not for these packages there would not be any westerners working there.


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## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> These are expat packages that are available in most third world countries and others to foreigners working there. If it was not for these packages there would not be any westerners working there.




Personally I lived a very comfortable life in the UK and I would not come to a country and live below the standard I have back home..


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## SHendra

ArabianNights said:


> My rent is 2000LE per month and I pay my landlord at least 2-3 months rent in advance... the water system here is crap to say the least. In the kitchen the water from the tap is low pressure and freezing... I am actually worried Ill get arthritis, even my fingers have started twitching. Water in the bathroom is a trickle at times.... though my shower pressure is good and it gets hot, but doesn't last for very long. Its a big apartment, and it gets cold. I have seen worse then what I have. I am sure you probably live in Kafr Abdo or somewhere like that. Yes, that is the machine you describe, the hose piping works OK, sometimes.... but washing clothes is time consuming, having to fill with water and then drain it... and then refill again for the rinse (otherwise youll spin your clothes with the soap still attached to it) and of course 15 minutes is not enough to wash clothes... so I have to keep restarting it, until its washed for at least an hour, like normal washing machines. And all in cold water.


2000LE is a lot for the part of Alex's you are in!!! My child gran lives in that district she rents a large 2bedroom flat for 700LE a month! Problem free I may add. There isn't a lift in her appartment building mind but everything else is honky dory! After I sold my old flat I was renting for what your paying in Roushdy. It can possibly be done. You may even get very nice in other areas too for what your paying there .. even Bokla, Loran, Montazah etc. The wassest paper may help you since you can read arabic.. just study it ring some people up and get an idea what the going rents are these days per a area/district and size of flat etc! 

As for the water pressure thing your find it a common issue and alot of flats invest in their own power engine to help pump up the water that they switch on before using showers etc.. I had to have one.


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> 2000LE is a lot for the part of Alex's you are in!!! My child gran lives in that district she rents a large 2bedroom flat for 700LE a month! Problem free I may add. There isn't a lift in her appartment building mind but everything else is honky dory! After I sold my old flat I was renting for what your paying in Roushdy. It can possibly be done. You may even get very nice in other areas too for what your paying there .. even Bokla, Loran, Montazah etc. The wassest paper may help you since you can read arabic.. just study it ring some people up and get an idea what the going rents are these days per a area/district and size of flat etc!
> 
> As for the water pressure thing your find it a common issue and alot of flats invest in their own power engine to help pump up the water that they switch on before using showers etc.. I had to have one.



Hi Shendra  To be honest, I really do not know. When I first came here in September, there was a major lack of rental properties available and I used that Waseet paper you are talking about and there was nothing in my price range .... anything that was was gone by the time that I chased it up. I went through a really hard time trying to find a place... I even pounded the streets of various neighborhoods and asked Bowabs, In the end I got so desperate, I called a real estate agent which charges extortionate fees to help me find a place. Even they, at the time had nothing, apart from one 2 bedroom apartment which was over budget and the landlady wanted a huge deposit. Apart from that, the apartment itself was beautiful and perfect... up to scratch with western standard, but commission and move it costs were too expensive for me to afford it. My University were not helpful at all... in fact they tried to rip me off. The International Student coordinator at the University offered me dormitory accommodation, sharing a room with one other girl for 6000LE per month - a total rip off. My luck here has been so bad, its incredible. I have been told several times by several people, including other foreigners that finding a place to rent for 2000LE peer month these days is hard to come by - because there arnt any properties and that its a landlords market. From what everyone is saying here, its different. God knows how many properties I have seen and most were moldy and disgusting. 

I am certainly going to speak to my Bowab tomorrow about the water issue. Its making me sick. I have a horrible chesty cough which I have had over the last 2 weeks or so, I suffer from Asthma which is worse in Egypt anyway and the fact that I have no hot water makes it worse. I cannot relax at home, I cannot relax outside with all the pollution and the endless cigarette smoke in the coffee houses - there is no escape. I usually have my compulsory winter flu jab for vulnerable people back home (I am classed as vulnerable, medically because of Asthma) of course, I am in Egypt now, so I cannot have that.


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## ArabianNights

expatagogo said:


> You're being robbed. For that kind of rent, you could be living a whole lot better. As I said, I pay a lot less for a lot more (and I'm just up the street from your neighborhood).
> 
> Tell whoever you're renting from you want hot water in the kitchen. Either they can buy another heater (150 LE) and have it installed, or work the plumbing around. For the outrageous rent you're paying, that's the least they can do. Do they live in the building and know the water pressure is bad? A pump is a solution and if you're having a problem the chances are good the neighbors in your building are, too.
> 
> I have that type of washer and, as I said, it's my favorite. Washing to get my clothes clean doesn't take more than the 15 minute cycle, but I do rinse until the rinse water is clean - which is never just once.



This is what I don't get. As I said in my post to Shendra, everyone was giving me the impression in September, when I moved here that 2000LE is like the bare minimum for Alexandria and that there are not many properties that come around at this amount. I am confused. I did a lot of research myself and it took me close to a month finding this place and although I was not 100% happy with it, I made the compromise and took it, because there was nothing else to take, apart from what someone was offering me through an agent, which was around 3000LE in Kafr Abdu. My landlord doesnt live here.... he lives in Tanta, I think, but I do know that my neighbor has issues with the water pressure, because when she moved in (after me) she asked to check mine, as hers was bad.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> Why not go to a small hotel and tell them you have 2000 a month for rent.. in these hard times they just might let you have a room.. you will have heat and hot water. you can buy a kettle for cuppa soup etc.. have lunch out.


That might be worth considering actually.... at least that way I do not have to go through the pure torture again that I had to go through to get the apartment that I am in now. I am not very happy now, to say the least. I thought it was 'normal' here that there would be a shortage of hot water or something... and that I wasnt alone in that. Sad thing is that I have paid my rent up until February. I have a feeling that I will not be seeing my security deposit money again, either. And I thought my landlord was a good man, because he brought me a new mattress which I demanded as a condition of me taking the place. The one that was already here was merely a mattress sized pillow.


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> That might be worth considering actually.... at least that way I do not have to go through the pure torture again that I had to go through to get the apartment that I am in now. I am not very happy now, to say the least. I thought it was 'normal' here that there would be a shortage of hot water or something... and that I wasnt alone in that. Sad thing is that I have paid my rent up until February. I have a feeling that I will not be seeing my security deposit money again, either. And I thought my landlord was a good man, because he brought me a new mattress which I demanded as a condition of me taking the place. The one that was already here was merely a mattress sized pillow.




cut your losses and move out.. you can manage the flights back and forth to Dubai so you can manage to loose this bit of money, after all if you are happier, warmer, drier, cleaner you will feel much better in yourself.


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## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> I thought it was 'normal' here that there would be a shortage of hot water or something... and that I wasnt alone in that. Sad thing is that I have paid my rent up until February. I have a feeling that I will not be seeing my security deposit money again, either.


NO, it's NOT normal, however the man you're renting from probably thinks you're fine with what you have because you haven't told him anything different. Call him and tell him you've been schooled on how it should be (which is true), and that you want your water situation fixed or you'll be leaving the flat - not Alexandria, and you'll be sticking around to see that he returns your deposit. Honestly, I've never had a maintenance issue that wasn't attended to promptly and I have a feeling that's more the norm than unusual.

Even so, your rent is outlandish considering the circumstances in general. The tourists and other foreigners that usually gobble up simply aren't here. Really, for what you're paying, you could be living in a posh flat in Roushdie, with a lift and hot water. I know this is true because I've seen them for less!

Helpful suggestion: don't take pricing advice from foreigners because, really, they just don't know what going rates are. I've seen them hand a taxi drive a five dollar bill because that's what the taxi driver asked for, instead of paying the actual 7 LE fare. :eyebrows:


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## Whitedesert

I think you guys takes the Egyptians too seriously, they dont even take themselves that seriously!
One way of making sure you survive is to find the "good" in the situation, and stay with the positive's. Wow, Arabiannight's I am really glad I dont feel like you, it must be awful! If I were you I would be on the first flight out. I like Cairo, would rather stay here than in Dubai/Abu Dhabi anytime, but then, I am a product of the 3rd world anyway, he,he...


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## Sonrisa

Hi Arabian Nights, sorry I haven't really followed this particular thread, but I am with the last few posters that you should move out.

Look, I changed flat three times in Cairo since I first arrived, third time lucky I found my perfect little place aafter countless visits to different places during weeks and weeks of house hunting and two horrible previous experiences that involved everything from nasty neigbhours , to water freakingly pouring down the walls.

I don't have a big budget, certainly not the expat packages that many get. My current little palace is actually cheaper than the sihthole I rented the first year I lived in Cairo. It is all about looking, searching, learning from your mistakes, and not giving up until you find your dream flat that fits the budget. 
Paying rent in advance is also a big nono


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## SHendra

In September it was still pretty much Summer, so can understand flat hunting then may of been harder. However now theres bound to be a bit more of choice for you with flat owners in need to rent out. Maybe have a word with your doorman to check about for you and list out the things you really need etc. For a few LE I'm sure he may just help you, it be alot cheaper than getting conned by some agent etc. Just stick to your guns.


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## marenostrum

Arabian are you telling your husband of your problems here?
I guess you are not or he would have taken you out of here or come here himself to protect you.

If I were you I would talk to him and see if he can help you. I don't think a university course is worth this hassle but if you really have to stay till May is there any way he could join you here?

What is the saying a problem shared is a problem halved and whatever help you can get from an internet forum is not the same as sharing the issue with your partner.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> cut your losses and move out.. you can manage the flights back and forth to Dubai so you can manage to loose this bit of money, after all if you are happier, warmer, drier, cleaner you will feel much better in yourself.


True. I went and spoke to my bowabs wifes today - Bowab himself wasn't around. I told her of the problem and she said he'll look into it.... he's going to come over tomorrow, after I get back home from University. I also went to Carrefour to look for one of those portable heaters... apparently you can get them for around 180LE + I deally, I do not want to leave my landlord anything, when I leave Egypt in 4 months, but i'd rather get one and be happy and comfortable in the place that I live. Ill give it to an Egyptian-British friend who lives here permanently, when I leave I guess.


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## ArabianNights

marenostrum said:


> Arabian are you telling your husband of your problems here?
> I guess you are not or he would have taken you out of here or come here himself to protect you.
> 
> If I were you I would talk to him and see if he can help you. I don't think a university course is worth this hassle but if you really have to stay till May is there any way he could join you here?
> 
> What is the saying a problem shared is a problem halved and whatever help you can get from an internet forum is not the same as sharing the issue with your partner.


Oh heaven knows.... ive been on the visa rigmarole since I have been here. My husband has an Asian passport, which means that he cannot purchase one on arrival... we have applied twice, reject twice. Its a long story. He was meant to have joined me here but the Egyptian Embassy are making a song and dance of everything. My husband knows everything, but not much he can do. He wants to be here with me - but he has no visa. We were thinking of applying a 3rd time, but no point now, since I only have 4 months left and afterwards I am going to Paris for 6 months, so now we are concentrating on getting everything sorted for his French visa. I have had bad luck on every front since I have been here, nothing to plan has worked, unfortunately. Im just taking each day as it comes and getting on with. I hate living in Egypt alone. If my husband was here, I wouldnt be moping as much for starters


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