# In a quandry



## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hi All
I am thinking about buying a Mini Moke on Spanish plates as a second run around fun car. Problem is how do I insure it? I am renting here for 5 and a half months, but the house where I am staying doesn't have a postal address. It's on a track without name and the few houses on the track aren't numbered. Can I use my Dutch address?
Second problem, can I keep it on Spanish plates for the other 6 and a half months? 
I'll be living in a mobile home in France April to mid June, ( no postal address ) back home to Holland till end of August, then France again for a couple of months and then back here for the winter.
Don't think my Dutch Insurance company will insure a car on foreign plates and can't get Dutch plates till I'm in Holland.


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Also haven't registered here as a resident as I read that that happens automatically here after 3 months. How that happens with no address no idea!!??


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Sorry it's not that simple! Search the the thread on residency for info.


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

So after having read literally hundreds of posts, as long as I have a NIE I can buy it and register it to my name. BUT I can't drive or insure it without either a Padron or being a tax resident here. Is that what it roughly boils down to ?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gareth54 said:


> So after having read literally hundreds of posts, as long as I have a NIE I can buy it and register it to my name. BUT I can't drive or insure it without either a Padron or being a tax resident here. Is that what it roughly boils down to ?


sort of........

the thing you need is an address in Spain & proof of it - the usual form of proof is the padrón - but if you aren't living here, they will generally accept the _escritura _- deeds of property ownership


& yes you do need a NIE


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Unfotunately have absolutely no proof that I am living in the house with no address. I paid the letting company in Holland the deposit and the rest in cash when I arrived. The price was all in so I don't get any bills for electricity water etc. The reciept for the cash just shows the amount I paid. So a Padron in these circumstances is out of the question ? So without a Padron I can completely forget about the car?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gareth54 said:


> Unfotunately have absolutely no proof that I am living in the house with no address. I paid the letting company in Holland the deposit and the rest in cash when I arrived. The price was all in so I don't get any bills for electricity water etc. The reciept for the cash just shows the amount I paid. So a Padron in these circumstances is out of the question ? So without a Padron I can completely forget about the car?


without proof of address you can forget about a car

& without a proper rental contract you can't go on the padrón, anyway, even if you were living here full time

you'd need something in writing at least from the property owner to say that you live there


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Ok thanks, so buy one in Holland this summer on Dutch plates and insurance and bring it down on a trailer for next winter. As long as I stay less than 183 days and can prove it, no problemo


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gareth54 said:


> Ok thanks, so buy one in Holland this summer on Dutch plates and insurance and bring it down on a trailer for next winter. As long as I stay less than 183 days and can prove it, no problemo


Not quite. You're obliged by the Spanish government to register as resident if here 90 days or more. And at that point the clock starts on rematriculation. 
If questioned they'd want proof that you're registered and that you'd started the rematriculation process


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Obliged as in must or should ? I understood from various posts that that happens automaticaly after 3 months whether I register or not. Although how "they" know which date I arrived, no idea, Big Brother is watching no doubt!! 
But the rematriculation process would only have any sense if I was planning to stay, which I'm not. I leave mid April and come back in November
As to being questioned, in the couple of months that I've been here (except on the border with France) I have yet to see a policeman and he would also have no idea when I arrived. Just play the innocent tourist.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gareth54 said:


> Obliged as in must or should ? I understood from various posts that that happens automaticaly after 3 months whether I register or not. Although how "they" know which date I arrived, no idea, Big Brother is watching no doubt!!
> But the rematriculation process would only have any sense if I was planning to stay, which I'm not. I leave mid April and come back in November
> As to being questioned, in the couple of months that I've been here (except on the border with France) I have yet to see a policeman and he would also have no idea when I arrived. Just play the innocent tourist.


you are 'considered' to be resident after 3 months - but that just means that you need to be registered - if you don't, then you are an 'unregistered alien'

it's the law that you register - plain & simple

if you don't, & if questioned cannot prove that you've been here less than 3 months, you could be fined for not registering


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Gareth54 said:


> Obliged as in must or should ? I understood from various posts that that happens automaticaly after 3 months whether I register or not. Although how "they" know which date I arrived, no idea, Big Brother is watching no doubt!!
> But the rematriculation process would only have any sense if I was planning to stay, which I'm not. I leave mid April and come back in November
> As to being questioned, in the couple of months that I've been here (except on the border with France) I have yet to see a policeman and he would also have no idea when I arrived. Just play the innocent tourist.


Xabiachica is telling you what the law is. You can now assess what you want to do about that knowledge! However, you should be clear on what you have been told ie the onus is on the possible guilty party to prove their innocence, not for the authorities to prove them guilty.
This is something that now permeates Spanish legalities. 
Another related area might be getting a traffic fine. They used to come by certified post, but most people just refused to sign for them so the post office returned them and this went on until the fine had expired. Now they are published in the BOE (daily government official publication) on internet and I'm not sure if they send you notification through the post or not. The point is you can no longer say the notification didn't get to you as you are supposed to be responsible for finding out if you have a fine or not.
So you have to prove you are, or are not, living here with travel tickets or tax forms or work contracts ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Gareth54 said:


> Obliged as in must or should ? I understood from various posts that that happens automaticaly after 3 months whether I register or not. Although how "they" know which date I arrived, no idea, Big Brother is watching no doubt!!
> But the rematriculation process would only have any sense if I was planning to stay, which I'm not. I leave mid April and come back in November
> As to being questioned, in the couple of months that I've been here (except on the border with France) I have yet to see a policeman and he would also have no idea when I arrived. Just play the innocent tourist.



You're lucky, at every turn when we were in Spain was the guardia and they love innocent tourists - thats where they make the money lol. 

Do things properly and you'll be ok, if you dont then you'll simply make their day lol

Have a read of this very old thread about when a friend of mine got stopped - luckily he had proof that he'd only just arrived http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/39452-british-cars-spain.html

Jo xxx


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks Jojo
was slightly friendlier advice than it came over from Xabiachica although you both say the same. Read all 25 pages ! Do I just need a NIE or a residents permit or is that one and the same ? That you get the other by applying for either / or ?
If I apply for rematriculation how do I stop it ? bearing in mind that I have no postal address, can I do that online ?


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks Pesky Wesky
I think, because my car is registered in Holland that they would send any fines to the address that the car is registered to. Otherwise they would never get any income from tourists that are here for just a few weeks. I know that if you get a ticket in France it is automaticaly sent to your home address. This has only been working for about a year. No idea if Spain also has this reciprocal agreement or not.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Gareth54 said:


> Thanks Jojo
> was slightly friendlier advice than it came over from Xabiachica although you both say the same. Read all 25 pages ! Do I just need a NIE or a residents permit or is that one and the same ? That you get the other by applying for either / or ?
> If I apply for rematriculation how do I stop it ? bearing in mind that I have no postal address, can I do that online ?


To answer your questions specifically; An NIE certificate is separate and different to the 'certificate of registration' (AKA residents permit or residencia). After 90 days, you must have the certificate. If you haven't yet obtained an NIE, then they will issue one along with the certificate.

I don't understand what you mean by 'stopping matriculation'. You obviously can't complete the matriculation online as part of the process is a technical inspection of the vehicle and another part is the ITV (vehicle test).




> Thanks Pesky Wesky
> I think, because my car is registered in Holland that they would send any fines to the address that the car is registered to. Otherwise they would never get any income from tourists that are here for just a few weeks. I know that if you get a ticket in France it is automaticaly sent to your home address. This has only been working for about a year. No idea if Spain also has this reciprocal agreement or not.


For non-residents (tourists) there are on-the-spot fines so they get your money that way! Yes, Spain has a reciprocal agreement with Holland so if you are 'zapped' by a camera for example, they will send any fines to your home address.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Gareth54 said:


> Thanks Pesky Wesky
> I think, because my car is registered in Holland that they would send any fines to the address that the car is registered to. Otherwise they would never get any income from tourists that are here for just a few weeks. I know that if you get a ticket in France it is automaticaly sent to your home address. This has only been working for about a year. No idea if Spain also has this reciprocal agreement or not.


The information about the fining system was only meant to illustrate the point that you are responsible for doing things the Spanish way, and was in reply to


> Although how "they" know which date I arrived, no idea, Big Brother is watching no doubt!!


You have to be able to prove to the authorities how long you have been here. If they think you have been here longer than you say and you can't prove it, guess who will win the dispute.


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

I don't understand what you mean by 'stopping matriculation'. You obviously can't complete the matriculation online as part of the process is a technical inspection of the vehicle and another part is the ITV (vehicle test).


I was told on here that if I was here longer than 3 months I would have to prove (if stopped and asked) that I had started the matriculation proces, or be fined for not doing so. The reason for stopping it is that I will be here for less than 6 months, just here for a long winter break of 5 and a half months.
If I was to be here for longer than 6 months OK I must have completed it but between 3 and 6 months seems a bit vague as to why I should start the proces knowing full well that I would also have to stop it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Gareth54 said:


> I don't understand what you mean by 'stopping matriculation'. You obviously can't complete the matriculation online as part of the process is a technical inspection of the vehicle and another part is the ITV (vehicle test).
> 
> 
> I was told on here that if I was here longer than 3 months I would have to prove (if stopped and asked) that I had started the matriculation proces, or be fined for not doing so. The reason for stopping it is that I will be here for less than 6 months, just here for a long winter break of 5 and a half months.
> If I was to be here for longer than 6 months OK I must have completed it but between 3 and 6 months seems a bit vague as to why I should start the proces knowing full well that I would also have to stop it.



Why dont you just buy a car in Spain, then when you move, buy one in Holland???

Jo xxx


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

Think the easiest way around the residentia problem with no address and no proof and not speaking Spanish would be to leave Spain before I'm here 3 months. Stay in a hotel in Gib for a couple of weeks and then come back again. Presumably get my passport stamped as proof of entry and have the hotel bill.


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## ddrysdale99 (Apr 3, 2014)

"Presumably get my passport stamped as proof of entry and have the hotel bill."

have you been through the border crossing at Gibraltar?


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## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

ddrysdale99 said:


> "Presumably get my passport stamped as proof of entry and have the hotel bill."
> 
> have you been through the border crossing at Gibraltar?


Not yet no.


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## ddrysdale99 (Apr 3, 2014)

Right now there's no queue (Frontier Queue Live - Gibraltar) but there's often long queues - in and out. It's a drive through border - you just get waved through usually - some "lucky" motorists get stopped and their cars searched but it seems to me to be a customs border rather than an immigration border. I don't know who would or even could stamp your passport.


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