# How can this be just?



## Silverwizard (Nov 21, 2009)

I purchased a Christmas present online for a family member from a non EU country at a cost which converted into €69,this gift to be delivered to my Portuguese address (she's spending Christmas with us).
This morning I received a 'phone call from the carrier saying "your parcel will be delivered tomorrow morning between 9.00a.m. and 13.00 can you please have €92 ready for the import tax & i.v.a.
I enquired with the customs agency to verify the charge & it is indeed correct.
I told the guy you won't be getting the money as I intend to leave said parcel in their bonded warehouse until time or radioactive fall-out destroys it.I'll buy a different present in Portugal......his response?....Oh they all say that!,,,,not our fault.
Bom Natal!


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## christopherdouglas (Nov 13, 2008)

Hello,
Can't really say much - I'm gobsmacked. Not even heard of this before. We have bought quite a few things from America and also from Euro countries and never had this problem. You pay the price and it turns up. And the UK IS supposed to be part of europe (apart from the Euro) so why the difference?

And yes, I would have done just the same with the carrier.

All the best for Christmas,

Hellen & Chris


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## Silverwizard (Nov 21, 2009)

christopherdouglas said:


> Hello,
> Can't really say much - I'm gobsmacked. Not even heard of this before. We have bought quite a few things from America and also from Euro countries and never had this problem. You pay the price and it turns up. And the UK IS supposed to be part of europe (apart from the Euro) so why the difference?
> 
> And yes, I would have done just the same with the carrier.
> ...


Hi Chris,
To say I was gobsmacked would be an understatement,I was honest with the authorities when they contacted me (some might say foolishly) & then got clobbered.
When I lived in UK,I,like yourself bought items from non-eu countries & paid a nominal customs charge plus the vat...here it seems they charge up to 85% of the purchase charge then add v.a.t. they then work out the v.a.t on what you paid the supplier & add that on...Nice double whammy eh?
If you lived here you would hear in the cafes that all businesses here have two rates,one with a receipt & one without,you can't wonder at it.
Many thanks for your good wishes which I reciprocate, & take care.
Regards
S.W.


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## silvers (Sep 22, 2008)

I too learned the hard way. I bought a clock from China for £5 including postage, big spender huh? Import taxes on said £5? €14! 
Now I no longer buy from outside of EU, or if I do, I have it sent to the UK and then sent onto here. I have never had anything intercepted back in the UK.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm just north of you in France, but have found you have to be very careful about stuff ordered from outside the EU. Normally, for purchases less than 20€ or so, there's no problem, but here, anything over that they take the full invoiced amount including shipping costs and charge 19.6% VAT on that.

I have yet to order anything here in France where there was a customs fee on top of the cost of the merchandise, but I suppose that depends on what you're buying. I do recall paying some fees on software in Germany, when I was ordering things from the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## prioryc (Jul 12, 2010)

There are unified import duties throughout the EU so the duty should be the same wherever they enter the EU.
Usually the biggest whammy is the so called "deferment fee" which is charged by the carrier to offset their large VAT deposit they have to make to the national government (all EEC countries) before they are allowed to handle imports - this deposit is basically a guarantee that VAT will always be paid. In the UK I have had ranges from £90 to £150 per shipment and
the value of this fee can far exceed the value of the goods for small purchases.
A range of Customs fees are then added for handling imports, processing forms etc - not large but for small items it can be a large proportion of the cost.
On top of all the charges you then have the national rate of VAT applied.
There is then also the consideration as to whether or not the item is actually allowed to be imported into the country - this certainly applies in the case of medicines, pest treatments or raw foods. This is generally a country specific issue and can apply even to intra-EEC shipments and, in many cases, the importers actually have to be licensed.
It appears that if the goods are sent by post then the charges are likely to be small but if sent by courier they will be large.
Check before you buy - purchase locally if you can as all the problems will already have been dealt with.


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## Silverwizard (Nov 21, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm just north of you in France, but have found you have to be very careful about stuff ordered from outside the EU. Normally, for purchases less than 20€ or so, there's no problem, but here, anything over that they take the full invoiced amount including shipping costs and charge 19.6% VAT on that.
> 
> I have yet to order anything here in France where there was a customs fee on top of the cost of the merchandise, but I suppose that depends on what you're buying. I do recall paying some fees on software in Germany, when I was ordering things from the US.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Hi Bev,
You're quite right you have to be very careful,but unfortunately we here in Portugal seem to be the worst off with i.v.a (v.a.t.) currently running at 21% shortly to be increased to 23%.
This is in a country were the working class average take home wage is around €520 per month.
The Govt seem to invent taxes for practically everything here,it's almost as if they don't want their own people to have anything.
That would be o.k. if the basic infrastructure of the country was sound,but this isn't the case,Portugal has some of the worst roads in Western Europe (motorways excluded because the vast majority are private toll roads).
Poverty levels here are close to the worst in Europe with 270,000 people existing below the poverty line,this figure in a country of 10,000,000 people represents approximately 3.5% of the population.
To make matters worse the countries debts equate to 79% of GDP,that's NOT good.
It upsets me intensely to see good honest people treated in such a derisory way by their own people (the Govt).
These problems are going to get even worse with implementation of the so called austerity measures,try telling people who have next to nothing they are going to have even less.
Anyway sorry to go off on one,& go a bit off topic,but it does make me cross.
Happy New Year to you & yours.


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

Silverwizard said:


> I purchased a Christmas present online for a family member from a non EU country at a cost which converted into €69,this gift to be delivered to my Portuguese address (she's spending Christmas with us).
> This morning I received a 'phone call from the carrier saying "your parcel will be delivered tomorrow morning between 9.00a.m. and 13.00 can you please have €92 ready for the import tax & i.v.a.
> I enquired with the customs agency to verify the charge & it is indeed correct.
> I told the guy you won't be getting the money as I intend to leave said parcel in their bonded warehouse until time or radioactive fall-out destroys it.I'll buy a different present in Portugal......his response?....Oh they all say that!,,,,not our fault.
> Bom Natal!



*How can this be Just?*

its very simple, *its the Law* you would pay IVA in virtually every country in the world, within the EU you have laws which mean the IVA/VAT is only paid in the country of Purchase. 
I often purchase products online and most times the websites will state that you are liable for taxes in the country you live.

So basically its very simple you buy the product you pay the taxes


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Silverwizard said:


> Portugal has some of the worst roads in Western Europe (motorways excluded because the vast majority are private toll roads).
> Poverty levels here are close to the worst in Europe with 270,000 people existing below the poverty line,this figure in a country of 10,000,000 people represents approximately 3.5% of the population.




Hi SW have you driven int he UK recently?. 
Even the motorways are in poor condition.
As for poverty the official government figures are:

_People living below the poverty line are distributed around the UK as follows:

■England alone- 11,546,000, or 23% of the population;_

Poverty in the UK: a summary of facts and figures | Child Poverty Action Group

13.4 million people in the UK (22%) are income poor. Of those 13.4 million people: 

■53% are in households which include at least one child; 
■32% are in households of people of working age without children;
■15% are in pensioner households.


The UK national debt United Kingdom is not far short of that of Portugal

-13.3 (deficit % of GDP) ( 59 public debt of GDP)
While portugal's results are : -7.6 62.6 respectively.

VAT in the Scandnavian countries is as high as 25%.

The VAT rate in Ireland has been 21% for quiet some time

So if i have to pay an extra duty on anything I have bought form outside the EU trading area ....well maybe I should have tried to buy it within the region 

in the Uk 6% of single pensions have to get by on less than £5,000 a year.There not family backup like you have here in Portugal which I find really sad.
Ireland is now much the same as Uk.

All so sad


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## -mia- (Dec 23, 2009)

Silverwizard said:


> Hi Bev,
> You're quite right you have to be very careful,but unfortunately we here in Portugal seem to be the worst off with i.v.a (v.a.t.) currently running at 21% shortly to be increased to 23%.
> This is in a country were the working class average take home wage is around €520 per month.
> The Govt seem to invent taxes for practically everything here,it's almost as if they don't want their own people to have anything.
> ...



Maybe Switzerland a better place for you.  
Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

I promise you the issue of buying via post from outside the EU is quite the same in the UK. Anything over GBP18 is stopped & hit with fees and taxes. By from within the EU and there is not duty. Plus there is a lot of choice, especially in local and hand made goods. I like to buy from Etsy. You can choose your country and buy from local artisans. 

Sending via private courier is the worst. They charge huge "admin" and customs brokerage fees. You best bet is always to send via national postal service.


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## oranger (Feb 21, 2011)

I think if you buy very low value items from outside the EU you'll be OK - but generally I try to stick to buying within the EU. Especially since here the time it takes for things to pass through customs can be very long - annoying!


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