# Relocating to Germany for PhD in Finance



## ism_rafiq

Is it advisable to relocate to Germany for PhD in Finance? What are the opportunities after PhD in Germany?


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## *Sunshine*

It is only worth moving to Germany for a PhD in Finance if you can get into a good PhD programme or find a very good supervisor with connections. Do you have enough savings or will you require funding? 

Overall Germany produces more business grads than it needs and many foreign business grads struggle to find jobs after graduation. Your options after graduation would depend on your area of expertise and quantitative skills. 

What would you want to do after graduation? Banks, insurance companies, and some consultancies look for people with strong quantitative skills.


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## ism_rafiq

Thanks for your reply.
Well, Obviously, I will be requiring funds for my PhD which means I will not do PhD on self finance base. Secondly, actually, I am working as and accountant in educational system since Aug 2016 and now I am planning to give it an IT touch like python etc. Basically, I am doing this research of PhD to see which country suits my credentials later on. To explain it I quote an example, Denmark is in need of Nurses and doctors, similarly Austria prefer engineers. So, where do we finance people fit in?


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## Bevdeforges

There seem to be two separate registered members here: ism and ism_rafiq - if you are both actually the same person, would you like me to merge your two identities. I think it should be less confusing both for you and for anyone who responds to your questions.


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## ism_rafiq

Yeah sure
Thanks


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## *Sunshine*

ism said:


> Obviously, I will be requiring funds for my PhD which means I will not do PhD on self finance base. Secondly, actually, I am working as and accountant in educational system since Aug 2016 and now I am planning to give it an IT touch like python etc. Basically, I am doing this research of PhD to see which country suits my credentials later on. To explain it I quote an example, Denmark is in need of Nurses and doctors, similarly Austria prefer engineers. So, where do we finance people fit in?


Why obviously? It makes a huge difference whether or not one needs financing and not everyone does.

Based on the info you provided, Germany is not the country for you and it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to find a funded PhD programme in Germany. 

Germany also needs medical doctors and nurses (as well as other health care professionals) whose qualifications are recognised in Germany and who speak at least C1 German. 

There is little demand in Germany for foreign accountants who are not familiar with German accounting practices and can't speak (and read) excellent German.


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## ism_rafiq

*Sunshine* said:


> Why obviously? It makes a huge difference whether or not one needs financing and not everyone does.
> 
> Based on the info you provided, Germany is not the country for you and it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to find a funded PhD programme in Germany.
> 
> Germany also needs medical doctors and nurses (as well as other health care professionals) whose qualifications are recognised in Germany and who speak at least C1 German.
> 
> There is little demand in Germany for foreign accountants who are not familiar with German accounting practices and can't speak (and read) excellent German.
> [/QUOT. Is it advisable to get PhD in Finance from Germany and pursue a career in research industry rather being an accountant?


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## *Sunshine*

Based on your background and the qualifications you already have, I don't understand why you are even considering Germany.


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## ism_rafiq

*Sunshine* said:


> Based on your background and the qualifications you already have, I don't understand why you are even considering Germany.


You mean because of accounting background I should look for some other country??


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## *Sunshine*

There are so many reasons why Germany is not an option for you that I don't know where to start. 

1. Do you already speak German? 

2. Is your German better than your English? 

3. Have you already studied Econometrics? 

4. Do you have 40,000€ to spare? 

5. Why do you want to move to Germany?


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## ism_rafiq

Ok got it, accepted. Just for the sake of info if you find it feasible:

Q1 & 2) No I don't know German but Don't they offer in English 
Q2) Well, this is something I heard for the first time that I need Econometrics to study PhD in Finance (Germany). It means I don't qualify for PhD in Germany
Q 3) I have gone through different websites and discussed with agents and they said that education is free in Germany but you have to maintain block account. Basically, that is difference when discussing with someone who is really in the best position to explain like you. So, you mean to say that I will be needing 0.4m euros 
Q4) Actually, I have already done MBA from UK and I had shortlisted few countries to pursue PhD from reputable foreign institute that was the reason
Anyhow If you suggest otherwise after looking at my profile then I would reconsider my options

Now as we have discussed a lot about myself, would you suggest any country for me to pursues PhD in Finance

Last but not least, thanks a lot for sparing time to answer my queries and your valuable suggestions
Highly appreciable


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## Nononymous

I don't mean to be snarky, but 40,000 € is not 0.4m euro...


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## ism_rafiq

Nononymous said:


> I don't mean to be snarky, but 40,000 € is not 0.4m euro...


Sorry I got it it was my mistake
Thanks
Actually I was busy with some other tasks as well while replying this thread.
Thanks 0.4m = 400,000 euros


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## *Sunshine*

ism_rafiq said:


> Q 3) I have gone through different websites and discussed with agents and they said that education is free in Germany but you have to maintain block account. Basically, that is difference when discussing with someone who is really in the best position to explain like you. So, you mean to say that I will be needing 0.4m euros


First of all there are many rather sketchy "agents" who try to sell their services to anyone foolish enough to listen regardless of whether or not the person asking for advice has a realistic chance of succeeding. 

Although it is theoretically possible to solve your financial constraints by winning the lottery, I wouldn't recommend spending your rent money on lottery tickets. 

Even though most public universities only charge between 200- 400€ / semester, you still need funds for rent and food. Over half of all foreign students drop out of German universities without a degree and the most common reasons are due to lack of funds and insufficient language skills.

Germany likes to try to present itself as international and cosmopolitan, however, most Germans don't actually speak English that well and many programmes taught English are not that good and some are absolutely horrible. 

From what I hear the universities in Frankfurt and Mannheim both have excellent Finance and Economics programmes, however, it doesn't sound as if you have the necessary quantitative background. Have you already taken the GMAT?

Since you already have an MBA from the UK, why do you even want to pursue a PhD? Do you already have a research topic?


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## ism_rafiq

Well, Thanks for your information especially regarding medium of instruction as we heard that lots of programs are taught in English.
Secondly, I didn't get your point that Why am I planning to do PhD after MBA? I mean is it not advisable to do PhD after MBA? Should I go to another route with MBA in hand?
As far as research topic is concerned, yes I am working on it


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## Bevdeforges

In some European countries (not sure about Germany) there are indeed "lots of" program that are taught in English, but they tend to be the private institutions of higher education - and often are very pricey. (That's certainly the case here in France.)

As for a PhD after an MBA, it depends on why you're doing it. In much of Europe, an MBA isn't considered to be a "university" degree. Actually any "business" degree is often in a separate track from the regular university system. A PhD is regarded by many as a degree reserved for those who intend to teach or do research at a university or research institute. An MBA is more of a "trade" degree - designed to offer practical experience in management and a route to working in an actual business. A PhD is considerably more theoretical and not as suitable for someone wanting to work in business. (And yes, I have an MBA and have found this to be the case here in Europe.)


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## *Sunshine*

Bevdeforges said:


> In some European countries (not sure about Germany) there are indeed "lots of" program that are taught in English, but they tend to be the private institutions of higher education - and often are very pricey. (That's certainly the case here in France.)


In Germany many public universities offer "international" programmes taught in English by professors who barely speak the language properly. The quality of many of these degrees is not very high and foreign grads of these programmes rarely find jobs that make it possible for them to settle here (the exception being some of the Comp Sci grads). 

The quality of the (expensive) private universities vary greatly and there are an increasing number of useless degrees mills. 

Are the expensive private options in France any good? Or is it just a way to buy a degree?


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## *Sunshine*

ism_rafiq said:


> Secondly, I didn't get your point that Why am I planning to do PhD after MBA? I mean is it not advisable to do PhD after MBA? Should I go to another route with MBA in hand?
> As far as research topic is concerned, yes I am working on it


I agree with Bev's explanation of academic/non-academic paths? 

What is your end goal?

For example, if you are interested in economic policy you should forget Germany. If you are interested in accounting but not complex econometrics, get a job in the local office of one of the Big4 then transfer.


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## Bevdeforges

*Sunshine* said:


> The quality of the (expensive) private universities vary greatly and there are an increasing number of useless degrees mills.
> 
> Are the expensive private options in France any good? Or is it just a way to buy a degree?


The expensive private options in France vary all over the map. There is INSEE, which has an excellent international reputation. And charges a fortune for tuition (and the "experience" of such an excellent institution) - though it seems the fees are often (usually?) picked up by a student's employer since the student is already a high ranking executive. There are also the cheezy diploma mills, though I suspect they don't offer "PhD's" per se as that is the job of the national university system.


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## ism_rafiq

Bevdeforges said:


> In some European countries (not sure about Germany) there are indeed "lots of" program that are taught in English, but they tend to be the private institutions of higher education - and often are very pricey. (That's certainly the case here in France.)
> 
> As for a PhD after an MBA, it depends on why you're doing it. In much of Europe, an MBA isn't considered to be a "university" degree. Actually any "business" degree is often in a separate track from the regular university system. A PhD is regarded by many as a degree reserved for those who intend to teach or do research at a university or research institute. An MBA is more of a "trade" degree - designed to offer practical experience in management and a route to working in an actual business. A PhD is considerably more theoretical and not as suitable for someone wanting to work in business. (And yes, I have an MBA and have found this to be the case here in Europe.)


Well, I definitely want to pursue a career as researcher. Due to this I am planning to do PhD


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## ism_rafiq

*Sunshine* said:


> I agree with Bev's explanation of academic/non-academic paths?
> 
> What is your end goal?
> 
> For example, if you are interested in economic policy you should forget Germany. If you are interested in accounting but not complex econometrics, get a job in the local office of one of the Big4 then transfer.


I am interested in research field that is my end goal


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## ism_rafiq

Thanks a lot @Bevdeforges @sunshine for such a useful information
What I concluded is that I should skip France and Germany because of multiple reasons like expensive tuition fee, job market for PhD etc


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