# Forced to apply for Residency



## Canexicanss (Mar 20, 2015)

I have been coming to Mexico for 6 or 7 months a year for 14 years. I first got an FM3 and renewed it 7 or 8 times until they said I could not renew it again, that I had to start again with a new FMS3 or go to an FM2. I began with a new FM3 until this new system began at which point got the new Temporary Resident VISA which expires this month but they are telling me I now have to become a Mexican Resident and get a Permanent Resident Visa!? I have no desire to give up my Canadian residency. I just wish to continue my snowbirding pattern. Surely everyone that spends regular time in both countries doesn't HAVE to become a Mexican resident. That makes no sense. Canadians and Americans have been doind this for years. I must be missing something.

I come to Mexico because the cold hurts me so badly I can't leave the house except during the warm month but also because my primary caregivers are here. In 1980 I had a tumor removed from my brainstem leaving me partly paralyzed. 

Anyone have any insight?


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes, you’ve been swept up in the immigration reform that went fully into effect as of last year. A foreigner living in Mexico can only be a temporary resident for 4 years at the most, then they have to go permanent. But being a permanent resident doesn’t mean that you can’t leave the country.

In your situation, if you were granted permanent residency in Mexico, I don’t think it would stop you from continuing to go back to Canada for 5 months every year as you have been doing. Anyone else know about this? I don’t remember if it was here or in another forum where somebody asked recently about limits for time spent out of Mexico, and someone else quoted information they were given by an INM official that said there wasn’t a limit – unlike pre-reform, when there did use to be limits.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Canexicanss said:


> I have been coming to Mexico for 6 or 7 months a year for 14 years. I first got an FM3 and renewed it 7 or 8 times until they said I could not renew it again, that I had to start again with a new FMS3 or go to an FM2. I began with a new FM3 until this new system began at which point got the new Temporary Resident VISA which expires this month but they are telling me I now have to become a Mexican Resident and get a Permanent Resident Visa!? I have no desire to give up my Canadian residency. I just wish to continue my snowbirding pattern. Surely everyone that spends regular time in both countries doesn't HAVE to become a Mexican resident. That makes no sense. Canadians and Americans have been doind this for years. I must be missing something.
> 
> I come to Mexico because the cold hurts me so badly I can't leave the house except during the warm month but also because my primary caregivers are here. In 1980 I had a tumor removed from my brainstem leaving me partly paralyzed.
> 
> Anyone have any insight?


Is there really a problem? With a Residencial Permanente visa there is no limitation on how much time you spend outside of Mexico, unlike previous visas. I don't see why it would have any effect on whether or not you meet Canadian rules for residency. That is between you and Canada.


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## Canexicanss (Mar 20, 2015)

Thanks, that's kinda a good news/bad news answer, isn't it!? :-=\

I'd still have to give up my Canadian residency which is not great although since I just found this out today have not yet discovered the implications resulting from that. Many years ago my parents accountant warned them not to let me lose my residency in Canada but didn't say why. I'll Google that aspect but would appreciate anything anyone can add. My lawyer in Mexico is just passing along what Mexico's Immigration has told him and obviously he can't help with my Canadian residency concerns.

Thanks again for replying maesonna


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## Canexicanss (Mar 20, 2015)

Oh? Am I wrong in my thinking that a person can only have Residency in one country at a time? That would be great.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Canexicanss said:


> Oh? Am I wrong in my thinking that a person can only have Residency in one country at a time? That would be great.


Canada doesn't know (or care) about your status in Mexico. Mexico certainly doesn't care about your status in Canada (as long as you have a passport). It just a matter of satisfying the individual requirements for residency. In Mexico those have to do with income, not time spent in Mexico.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Canexicanss said:


> Thanks, that's kinda a good news/bad news answer, isn't it!? :-=\
> 
> I'd still have to give up my Canadian residency which is not great although since I just found this out today have not yet discovered the implications resulting from that. Many years ago my parents accountant warned them not to let me lose my residency in Canada but didn't say why. I'll Google that aspect but would appreciate anything anyone can add. My lawyer in Mexico is just passing along what Mexico's Immigration has told him and obviously he can't help with my Canadian residency concerns.
> 
> Thanks again for replying maesonna


I think some Canadians are careful with their residency to maintain eligibility for health care. That is just what I have heard here. I don't know what Canadian rules are for maintaining residency.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Canexicanss said:


> Oh? Am I wrong in my thinking that a person can only have Residency in one country at a time? That would be great.


Yes .... you don't give up anything. It's win-win


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Canexicanss,
This is one time that you can jump up and down with joy at being so very wrong. 
The good news is that you can definitely become Residente Permanente and enjoy the freedom and benefits that come with it.
The possible downside is that you cannot drive a Canadian or US vehicle in Mexico. So, if you can live without a car, flying down and back, that is OK. You can own a Mexican car and even drive it in the USA. Canada doesn‘t want you to drive it in Canada, but you could store it in a US border town, eh?


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## Canexicanss (Mar 20, 2015)

Driving is no prob. The family I'm with in Mexico has a car. I make no income in Mexico and live on my diability pension. I guess an Immigration lawyer here will advise me on tax requirements if any. One thing for súre, I have to make a quíck 180 degree in my thinking. I had things quite mixed up and really am grateful to everyone.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you are not working in Mexico, there are no tax implications. Lawyers do love to take your money and give confusing or erroneous advice. When they screw up, they charge more to correct the error.
You don‘t need one. Just get your new visa and enjoy life.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Canexicanss said:


> I guess an Immigration lawyer here will advise me on tax requirements if any.


Spencer McMullen, with offices in Guadalajara and the Lake Chapala communities, is an attorney expats I'm acquainted with have consulted with regarding immigration and other matters. You might want to give his office a call, if you still think you need/want legal advice:

Chapala Law

Best of luck.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Canexicanss said:


> Driving is no prob. The family I'm with in Mexico has a car. I make no income in Mexico and live on my diability pension. I guess an Immigration lawyer here will advise me on tax requirements if any. One thing for súre, I have to make a quíck 180 degree in my thinking. I had things quite mixed up and really am grateful to everyone.


I sent you a Private Message.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I agree, IF you feel the need for an attorney, Spencer is the man you should see.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

This is the information on becoming a non-resident of Canada. But it is the Canada Revenue Agency definition of “non-residency”, which is only relevant to income tax and Child Benefits. 

When it comes to health care, it depends on your province’s rules, but what they count is how long you are outside of Canada; it will not matter whether you have residency in Mexico. So your eligibility – or not – for your provincial health care plan will not be any different from how it was over the last 14 years.


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## Rwrobb (Jul 13, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> I think some Canadians are careful with their residency to maintain eligibility for health care. That is just what I have heard here. I don't know what Canadian rules are for maintaining residency.


I,ve been checking into this and yes in Ontario, Canada you have to maintain 6 months to make sure their is no interruption in your Old Age Pension and your Government health plan (OHIP). Now what about if your plan is to go to mexico yearly to visit with a tourist card. Six months limit. After 4 years visiting will you also be expected to get a new visa?


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

No.


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## Rwrobb (Jul 13, 2014)

maesonna said:


> Yes, you’ve been swept up in the immigration reform that went fully into effect as of last year. A foreigner living in Mexico can only be a temporary resident for 4 years at the most, then they have to go permanent. But being a permanent resident doesn’t mean that you can’t leave the country.
> 
> In your situation, if you were granted permanent residency in Mexico, I don’t think it would stop you from continuing to go back to Canada for 5 months every year as you have been doing. Anyone else know about this? I don’t remember if it was here or in another forum where somebody asked recently about limits for time spent out of Mexico, and someone else quoted information they were given by an INM official that said there wasn’t a limit – unlike pre-reform, when there did use to be limits.


I am confused with the temporary resident versus being a tourist for a period of say 5-6 months. Does a tourist after 4 years going for 6 months a year have to apply for permanent residency?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Rwrobb said:


> I am confused with the temporary resident versus being a tourist for a period of say 5-6 months. Does a tourist after 4 years going for 6 months a year have to apply for permanent residency?


No.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I am unfamiliar with Canadian rules and procedures but to set your mind at ease, I am a naturalized Mexican citizen having lived here for 14 years full time. I am also a citizen of my native United States where the powers-that-be could not care less that I am also a Mexican citizen. My wife is a naturalized Mexican citizen as well and also a citizen in her native France and French authorities are unconcerened as to her Mexican citizenship. We both can vote in our native countries as well as Mexico and carry Mexican as well as U.S. and French passports respectively.

Even though I am a Mexican citizen living full time in Mexico, I am also fully eligible, at age 73, for all U.S. Medicare benefits if I wish to seek medical help in the United States and simply establish temporary residency there in a two-bit boarding house room for peanuts or by using the residency of a U.S. relative or friend. Not that I would do that given the excellent health care available to me in Mexico at a fraction of the costs of medical care in the U.S. even if I were not eligible for Medicare but, nevertheless, Medicare in the U.S. is available to me while on U.S. soil as if I were a full-time resident up there. 

I can´t spéak about Canadian rules and never will be knowledgable about living in Canada or being a Canadian citizen. Dawg does not ever plan to live anywhere where his knees knock in the winter drear seven months of every year. That includes French territory, by the way except for maybe, Martinique.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Rwrobb said:


> I,ve been checking into this and yes in Ontario, Canada you have to maintain 6 months to make sure their is no interruption in your Old Age Pension and your Government health plan (OHIP). Now what about if your plan is to go to mexico yearly to visit with a tourist card. Six months limit. After 4 years visiting will you also be expected to get a new visa?


Canadian Old Age Pension is federal, not provincial, and, if you qualify, is paid anywhere in the world, regardless of where you reside, permanently or otherwise. 
Regarding Ontario healthcare, (OHIP), although I don't live in Ontario, I believe that the "allowed" period out-of-province, (or out-of-Canada) has been 210 days....i.e. 7 months....for several years. In fact I believe that now applies to British Columbia as well. But healthcare coverage in both provinces requires that you be considered "resident" there....even if you spend 6 or 7 months/year in Mexico. In other words, if, in reality, you become a full-time resident of Mexico and don't maintain a residence in BC or Ontario, you would not be entitled to healthcare coverage.....and would probably require a three month waiting period to reinstate your coverage, were you to move back to either province from Mexico.
We've all heard stories of ex-pats residing full-time in Mexico, and continuing to use the residential address of a friend or relative back home for various purposes. In Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency (our IRS), probably shares information with the provinces regarding residency, so I expect that sooner or later folks playing that game would have to face the music....at least when it comes to healthcare coverage.


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## Canexicanss (Mar 20, 2015)

OH OH! It just hit me at 2AM that I have BIG problem. My current Visitante expires this month, March. I received it last year for humanitarian reasons while already in Mexico (I'm in Guadalajara right now) and reapplied the same way never thinking the 4 year limit would kick in. Now that my lawyer says it almost certainly is being refused I basically need to leave immediately which is pretty much impossible. First off, they still have my application and documentation but my companion/caregiver fell and hit her head bad. I can't fly alone and anyway have no one in Canada to take care of me. I thought I just had to change my application from the Visitante to Permanente never realizing the one could only be done from Canada. I am just praying I can pay a fine at the D.F. airport once my friend can fly and that it doesn't affect my Permanent Resident VISA application.

On the bright side, I now understand the different residencies. I always make sure I meet the province's minimum requirements and am pretty certain meet the federal tax definition of Canadian resident too. I just need to add Mexican resident since it is not mutually exclusive as I originally thought.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Rwrobb said:


> INow what about if your plan is to go to mexico yearly to visit with a tourist card. Six months limit. After 4 years visiting will you also be expected to get a new visa?


Actually, you will be getting a new ‘visa’ (tourist card) each year. The 180-day limited tourist card can never be renewed after the 180 days are up. The next time you come back to Mexico, you do so on a new tourist card; starting over again from scratch, if you will.
Up until now, the system had no way to keep track of people staying or visiting year after year on tourist cards. Since the immigration reform last year, records are becoming computerized. No one can promise that it will never happen that in the future, authorities may keep track of long-term tourists and oblige them to apply for resident visas.


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## Rwrobb (Jul 13, 2014)

maesonna said:


> Actually, you will be getting a new ‘visa’ (tourist card) each year. The 180-day limited tourist card can never be renewed after the 180 days are up. The next time you come back to Mexico, you do so on a new tourist card; starting over again from scratch, if you will.
> Up until now, the system had no way to keep track of people staying or visiting year after year on tourist cards. Since the immigration reform last year, records are becoming computerized. No one can promise that it will never happen that in the future, authorities may keep track of long-term tourists and oblige them to apply for resident visas.


Thank you, Yes I understand about the yearly Tourist card, But when I stated about the visa, That after 4 years as the other poster asked I wondered about if you would have to apply for the resident visa. As you say the rules could be changed anytime at their discretion. Does it require a certain amount of income per month? I read somewhere that $1500.00 -$2000.00 US was required for long term stay. Its not a problem, I guess you just prove your income.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

The other poster already had a resident visa for 4 years – as a _residente temporal_. He was discombobulated about not being able to continue on a temporary resident visa, and being obliged to apply for permanent residency. Both _temporal_ and _permanente_ resident status have income requirements – for people who are not planning to work in Mexico: they have to prove they have an income coming from outside of Mexico.

I looked up the the minimum income requirements, and if my sources are correct, they are $2213 to 2346 monthly for permanent residency (depends on which area of Mexico – look up _salarios mínimos para Zona A y Zona B_), and $1765 to $1877 for the temporary visa. The income requirements, which I stated here in US dollars, are based on the Mexican peso amount, so they change every time the exchange rate changes. Tomorrow they’ll be different.

As an alternative to having a monthly income, you can instead show you have had a big amount of money in the bank for the past year. The amount required is around $USD 100K to 120K, depending on temporary vs permanent, and, again, which part of Mexico.


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## Canexicanss (Mar 20, 2015)

Oops , I had the expiry date of my Segura and my visa mixed up. My visa actually expired in February while Migracion was reviewing it. They still have it so I either have to write a letter to them stating that I am withdrawing my application (that I gave them stating humanitarian grounds ) or do nothing for now. Ugh, I'm a nervous wreck.


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## Rwrobb (Jul 13, 2014)

maesonna said:


> The other poster already had a resident visa for 4 years – as a _residente temporal_. He was discombobulated about not being able to continue on a temporary resident visa, and being obliged to apply for permanent residency. Both _temporal_ and _permanente_ resident status have income requirements – for people who are not planning to work in Mexico: they have to prove they have an income coming from outside of Mexico.
> 
> I looked up the the minimum income requirements, and if my sources are correct, they are $2213 to 2346 monthly for permanent residency (depends on which area of Mexico – look up _salarios mínimos para Zona A y Zona B_), and $1765 to $1877 for the temporary visa. The income requirements, which I stated here in US dollars, are based on the Mexican peso amount, so they change every time the exchange rate changes. Tomorrow they’ll be different.
> 
> As an alternative to having a monthly income, you can instead show you have had a big amount of money in the bank for the past year. The amount required is around $USD 100K to 120K, depending on temporary vs permanent, and, again, which part of Mexico.


Ok I wasn,t too far off saying 1500 - 2000. But, with the exchange from American to Canadian that's going to be a lot more. Our dollar has been going down in value lately. Good for exports but bad for other things. If I remember correctly my first visit in 1971 our dollar was $1.10 to an American dollar. I,ll have to qualify monthly because I don,t have enough money in the bank . If I can,t live on $2000.00 a month in Mexico then I,ve picked the wrong place to go for the winters lol. I was thinking more like $1500.00 cdn would be sufficient.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Rwrobb said:


> Ok I wasn,t too far off saying 1500 - 2000. But, with the exchange from American to Canadian that's going to be a lot more. Our dollar has been going down in value lately. Good for exports but bad for other things. If I remember correctly my first visit in 1971 our dollar was $1.10 to an American dollar. I,ll have to qualify monthly because I don,t have enough money in the bank . If I can,t live on $2000.00 a month in Mexico then I,ve picked the wrong place to go for the winters lol. I was thinking more like $1500.00 cdn would be sufficient.


There is no connection between what you can live on and the requirements of Mexican immigration to qualify for a visa, either Temporal or Permanente.

As Maesonna pointed out, the monthly income requirements are specified in units of the minimum daily wage in Distrito Federal (Mexico City), currently $70.10 pesos/day. A residencial temporal requires a monthly income equal to 400 days of the minimum daily wage, residencial permanente requires a monthly income equal to 500 days.

The monthly amount required to live in Mexico depends on life style and can be either more or less than what the Mexican immigration office requires. $1500 CDN is currently $17,867 MXN. That is far more than I need. Only you know what you need.

With the current minimum wage and exchange rate, a temporary visa requires proof of 6 months of income of $2354.05 CDN/month.


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## Rwrobb (Jul 13, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> There is no connection between what you can live on and the requirements of Mexican immigration to qualify for a visa, either Temporal or Permanente.
> 
> As Maesonna pointed out, the monthly income requirements are specified in units of the minimum daily wage in Distrito Federal (Mexico City), currently $70.10 pesos/day. A residencial temporal requires a monthly income equal to 400 days of the minimum daily wage, residencial permanente requires a monthly income equal to 500 days.
> 
> ...


Thank You Tundra Green, That's good to know. I,ll be able to show that I,ve got that much at my disposal but as you say I,m sure I can live on a lot less. I,ve always liked the pacific side but have been to Merida and Cancun area. Funny I was checking on Sisal and it popped up here on a couple of threads. Most of my time in Mexico has been spent around Acapulco and Zihua area. I do like Puerto Escondito and Pie De La Questa outside Aca. I have seen from all the peoples posts on here that they all have various locations throughout Mexico that they call home and love. I could handle being inland but at a higher altitude I might have breathing problems and of course the weather would be a little colder maybe. Since I,ll only be there for 5 - 6 months a year I should maybe do a bit of roaming around and see what I like. I have a lot of friends in the Acapulco area from my many years of going there but it would be nice to meet new friends. I know there is a difference between me being a casual visitor and the posters on this forum who make Mexico their year round home. If I had the money I,d be there year round in a minute. But even up here in the Frozen North we do get 5 months of tolerable weather lol. So I,ll just figure out how to deal with my pension and my OHIP and join all you guys part time in beautiful Mexico.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Canexicanss said:


> Oops , I had the expiry date of my Segura and my visa mixed up. My visa actually expired in February while Migracion was reviewing it. They still have it so I either have to write a letter to them stating that I am withdrawing my application (that I gave them stating humanitarian grounds ) or do nothing for now. Ugh, I'm a nervous wreck.


As long as INM has accepted your application for a visa renewal, you are in process (en tramite) and the letter they gave you, with the website and password to check progress, is all you need for the moment. You can travel within Mexico; not exit with that letter. I would not withdraw your application, if that is even possible without leaving the country; who knows?
So, use the website and password to check the status of your application. For all you know, it may be ready to be picked up.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

If you are _en trámite_, you can exit and return to Mexico by getting a _permiso de salida y regreso_. This is a letter that allows you one exit and return, and the cost is about 300 pesos if I recall correctly.


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