# Sorry, need some advice of this log burning fire lark



## uffington15 (May 4, 2009)

Well we've managed to light 2 fires now, last night's seemed fine but tonite we seem to have a room slowly filling with smoke. Have opened windows both side s off the room to try and get some air flow. Smoke is going up the chimney but obviously not all of it lol. The logs are dry and are a mixture of old and some new bought today.
Is this normal or are we doing something basically wrong?


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

uffington15 said:


> Well we've managed to light 2 fires now, last night's seemed fine but tonite we seem to have a room slowly filling with smoke. Have opened windows both side s off the room to try and get some air flow. Smoke is going up the chimney but obviously not all of it lol. The logs are dry and are a mixture of old and some new bought today.
> Is this normal or are we doing something basically wrong?


Might be a good idea to get the chimney swept. It's recommended that you have them done every year, and round here there are notices pinned up with details of chimney sweeps doing the area. Look for 'deshollinador'

Just a thought, but has the fire got a handle on the side which opens/closes the flue? This might be part shut and preventing the smoke exiting up the chimney....


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Does your smoke have a strange smell?
Do you have a china man cap on your chimney?

Do you know not to clear out the ash as you get a better fire when the ash builds up, you will of course in time have to take some out but don't empty it of the ash.


----------



## uffington15 (May 4, 2009)

There is a handle but we think it is set at the open position as yesterday we could see smoke coming out of the chimney but will move it when I can touch it.

Not sure what a chinaman cap is but the is a top to the chimney. Not sure if the problem is the "kindling" we are using. we bought a box off wooden blocks and small timber bits from the same place as we bought the logs. Some of the smaller bits look as if they have paint or something on them so that may be an issue.

Had no idea about the ash, do you mean let it build up onto the actual grate and not just the tray? Sorry to be so thick


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Hi...

On the top of your chimney you may have a cap that looks like a china mans hat... or a whirly type one.. if you dont have any of these I suggest getting one as that will hep draw your fire and help prevent down draughts... they are easily fitted and you can buy them in the big DIY shops 

The idea behind a log burner is once you have got the fire going you should close it down so that is becomes a radiator and not a roaring fire, although I have to admit I used to open mine so I could see the flames at times.

Yes let the ash build up as your fire is new I wouldn't even think of taking any ash out for the next week, just make sure the vents are not blocked.

It is trial and error as each fire is different but you will soon get the hang of it.


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

As others have suggested - sweep the chimney. I did this myself last year (tight Yorkshireman, couldn't justify the expense of professional cleaner to myself) - basically I cut a 4mt length of the semi-rigid black water pipe and fed it through the stove and up the chimney (obviously cold from the previous days fire, blankets out over the floor, Vaccuum on emergency standby). That got rid of quite a lot of carbonated deposits.
Then I bought a pack of the pre-formed/artificial logs from the Brico. Basically they are made from wood pulp with a load of addatives, designed to start a fire as opposed to burn for fuel, but becuase it burns so much hotter than regular wood it will 'burn away' a lot of the remaining deposits up the chimney.
The next trick is to actually burn the right kind of wood. Stay away from pine and fig in future unless it has been properly matured as the resins that they contain cause a build-up of tar.

Of course, the obvious thing that you should check before any of this is that your regulator at the back of the stove / bottom of the chimney is in the correct position.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

DJF has it right
The kind of wood you use is important

One other thing ... I'm assuming this is the first time you have used it. This happened to us a few years ago. We have a cassette, and we were finding it difficult to light and also we were often getting smoke "blowing back". We had the chimney extended by a couple of feet up on the roof, and everything was then OK. The level wasnt high enough over the roof level to get the "draught" that is needed.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

djfwells said:


> As others have suggested - sweep the chimney. I did this myself last year (tight Yorkshireman, couldn't justify the expense of professional cleaner to myself) - basically I cut a 4mt length of the semi-rigid black water pipe and fed it through the stove and up the chimney (obviously cold from the previous days fire, blankets out over the floor, Vaccuum on emergency standby). That got rid of quite a lot of carbonated deposits.
> Then I bought a pack of the pre-formed/artificial logs from the Brico. Basically they are made from wood pulp with a load of addatives, designed to start a fire as opposed to burn for fuel, but becuase it burns so much hotter than regular wood it will 'burn away' a lot of the remaining deposits up the chimney.
> The next trick is to actually burn the right kind of wood. Stay away from pine and fig in future unless it has been properly matured as the resins that they contain cause a build-up of tar.
> 
> Of course, the obvious thing that you should check before any of this is that your regulator at the back of the stove / bottom of the chimney is in the correct position.


¿¿¿¿???
Didn't you need brushes?

We have a wood burning fire with a cassette; works like dream, although as everyone says there's a lot of trial and error involved. 

We get the chimney swept every 2 years. The guy rushes in, puts the gear together, bit of plastic down on the floor, woosh and it's done in about 15 - 20 mins and he's 80 - 90 € better off!!!! (can't remember how much exactly) Daylight robbery! And that's a special deal 'cos he does three houses in the same area at once. A couple of years ago I thought "I've had enough of this" and rang round other chimney sweeps and found out that he was the cheapest - the others were over 100€!!
So I'm interested on any DIY chimney sweeping tips.


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Honestly, I'm a Yorkshireman of the 'Bodgit and scarper school' - if I can make a mess of things myself and save afew quid as opposed to paying a bit extra and having the job done properly, then I will. However, the chimney isn't exactly what you may call a sensitive or overly technical system. My logic (as it works for me, at least) is that sooty deposits narrow the chimney and reduce the draw, therefore all that needs to be done in the short term is to rattle the bejesus out of the inside (or outside, if you can get to it) to loosen the soot.
I suspect that somebody will contradict me and tell me that what I did was completely wrong, but all I can tell you is that shoving a waterpipe up the chimnet and waggling it about worked a treat for me.
I'm guessing that will have a few chimney sweeps up in arms - Mary Poppins would probobaly disapprove.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

djfwells said:


> Honestly, I'm a Yorkshireman of the 'Bodgit and scarper school' - if I can make a mess of things myself and save afew quid as opposed to paying a bit extra and having the job done properly, then I will. However, the chimney isn't exactly what you may call a sensitive or overly technical system. My logic (as it works for me, at least) is that sooty deposits narrow the chimney and reduce the draw, therefore all that needs to be done in the short term is to rattle the bejesus out of the inside (or outside, if you can get to it) to loosen the soot.
> I suspect that somebody will contradict me and tell me that what I did was completely wrong, but all I can tell you is that shoving a waterpipe up the chimnet and waggling it about worked a treat for me.
> I'm guessing that will have a few chimney sweeps up in arms - Mary Poppins would probobaly disapprove.


Thanks!
Made me laugh, especially "rattle the bejesus out of the inside" How do I translate for OH to understand?????????

Just a minute, do you think_* Sacudir el Jesus de alli dentro*_ would do???  (without accents 'cos it seems the forum doesn't like them today)


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thanks!
> Made me laugh, especially "rattle the bejesus out of the inside" How do I translate for OH to understand?????????
> 
> Just a minute, do you think_* Sacudir el Jesus de alli dentro*_ would do???  (without accents 'cos it seems the forum doesn't like them today)


I think on the whole the Spanish mentality seems to be the same : Why pay somebody else to do something you have a good chance of figuring out for yourself (eventually - and without doing too much damage). It's not like performing intricate keyhole surgery on yourself - just getting some crap out from inside a tube in order to make some smoke travel up it better.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

djfwells said:


> Honestly, I'm a Yorkshireman of the 'Bodgit and scarper school' - if I can make a mess of things myself and save afew quid as opposed to paying a bit extra and having the job done properly, then I will. However, the chimney isn't exactly what you may call a sensitive or overly technical system. My logic (as it works for me, at least) is that sooty deposits narrow the chimney and reduce the draw, therefore all that needs to be done in the short term is to rattle the bejesus out of the inside (or outside, if you can get to it) to loosen the soot.
> I suspect that somebody will contradict me and tell me that what I did was completely wrong, but all I can tell you is that shoving a waterpipe up the chimnet and waggling it about worked a treat for me.
> I'm guessing that will have a few chimney sweeps up in arms - Mary Poppins would probobaly disapprove.


Please will you come round and fix the extractor fan in my kitchen? :thumb:


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Please will you come round and fix the extractor fan in my kitchen? :thumb:


I would be delighted to try. I am happy to try and repair anything with a 4mt length of black pipe and brute force and my OH would probobaly like to get me out of the house and away from damaging any other household appliances.


----------



## Rofa (Dec 3, 2009)

djfwells said:


> As others have suggested - sweep the chimney. I did this myself last year (tight Yorkshireman, couldn't justify the expense of professional cleaner to myself) - basically I cut a 4mt length of the semi-rigid black water pipe and fed it through the stove and up the chimney (obviously cold from the previous days fire, blankets out over the floor, Vaccuum on emergency standby). That got rid of quite a lot of carbonated deposits.
> Then I bought a pack of the pre-formed/artificial logs from the Brico. Basically they are made from wood pulp with a load of addatives, designed to start a fire as opposed to burn for fuel, but becuase it burns so much hotter than regular wood it will 'burn away' a lot of the remaining deposits up the chimney.
> The next trick is to actually burn the right kind of wood. Stay away from pine and fig in future unless it has been properly matured as the resins that they contain cause a build-up of tar.
> 
> Of course, the obvious thing that you should check before any of this is that your regulator at the back of the stove / bottom of the chimney is in the correct position.


Did mine the other way round. Stood on the roof and stuffed drain cleaning rods down with a scraper fixed. Only done it once in 10 years and there wasn't too much deposit - but I've been burning almond.

The draught it determined by the height of the chimney and it's diameter (so soot deposits reduce diameter and bends don't help). There will indeed be a baffle (or regulator) somewhere in the chimney or chimney exit from the fire - just effectively reduces diameter and therefore draught. Underfire air will also normally be adjustable. Regarding removing ash - depends where the ash collects. If it is in a tray which is also used for the underfire air you may welll need to remove the ash regularly or it will restrict air flow give incomplete combustion and make smoke - lots of it quite possibly. In fact I see no benefit whatsoever in leaving the ash there if the fire is properly designed.


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Rofa said:


> Did mine the other way round. Stood on the roof and stuffed drain cleaning rods down with a scraper fixed. Only done it once in 10 years and there wasn't too much deposit - but I've been burning almond.
> 
> The draught it determined by the height of the chimney and it's diameter (so soot deposits reduce diameter and bends don't help). There will indeed be a baffle (or regulator) somewhere in the chimney or chimney exit from the fire - just effectively reduces diameter and therefore draught. Underfire air will also normally be adjustable. Regarding removing ash - depends where the ash collects. If it is in a tray which is also used for the underfire air you may welll need to remove the ash regularly or it will restrict air flow give incomplete combustion and make smoke - lots of it quite possibly. In fact I see no benefit whatsoever in leaving the ash there if the fire is properly designed.


I did 'TRY' to do mine from the top of the chimney stack aswell.
The problem was that before I could even get close to the Chimney I bust half a dozen of the fragile tiles on the roof of my Finca, and as result slid down the roof with splinters of terracota in my arse and landed firmly and upside down in one of my olive trees. The Mrs persuaded me that perhaps doing it from inside may be easier.


----------



## shoemanpete (Jan 4, 2010)

Hi, we need to go out next week and buy some logs for the fire. 
Have read up on the net all about the best and worst woods to buy and what to look out for, seasoned well etc, but I want to know how much I should be expecting to pay so I don't get ripped off or buy what sound inexpensive but isn't. 
How many kilos does one generally burn if the fire is on each evening?
This is all new to us having lived with central hearing all our lives. Much easier to push a button I think!


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

shoemanpete said:


> Hi, we need to go out next week and buy some logs for the fire.
> Have read up on the net all about the best and worst woods to buy and what to look out for, seasoned well etc, but I want to know how much I should be expecting to pay so I don't get ripped off or buy what sound inexpensive but isn't.
> How many kilos does one generally burn if the fire is on each evening?
> This is all new to us having lived with central hearing all our lives. Much easier to push a button I think!


Go to the place on the Avenida de Mijas (down from El coto, on the left hand side). He will point you in the right direction and has a selection of wood to choose from. Prices are clear and he delivers....(same day). If you want a fire every evening, go for half a ton and it should see you through the bulk of winter.


----------



## shoemanpete (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks for that Lynn.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Someone suggested to us that we need a "bomb" as he described it which one just puts in the fire (cassette) to clean the chimney. Now whether the fire should be alight or just put it in the empty grate, I don't know, nor do I know what the h*ll this "bomb"is. If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be grateful. I remember that my grandmother used to put salt on the fire but whether that was to clean the chimney or put out a chimney fire I don't know and that was nearly 70 years ago so I can't ask her.

On the subject of not removing the ashes, be careful that you don't burn and distort the fire basket through overheating. In my experience, it is not the ashes you should leave but the cinders which, like a BBQ, will continue to give off a lot of heat and help to keep the fire burning if there is a decent draught through them until they turn to ash and all the combustible material has burnt away, but the ash just clogs and obstructs the airflow.


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Well I'd have said you need more like 2 tonnes minimum. We use at least that but it does depend on the weather. If you only need the fire at night you'll use less than if you've got to keep it in during the day in bad weather. Ours has always been 13 -16c per kilo around here,for olive, orange , etc. I now have olive delivered from Quesada in Jaén @ 7c a kilo BUT we have to buy a complete load ( 8,1tonnes ) . Most of the brits around here on the Puerto Lumbreras side use this supplier, many splitting the load between them. I do know someone who uses the whole 8t themselves as they like to be warm !!


----------



## Rofa (Dec 3, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Well I'd have said you need more like 2 tonnes minimum. We use at least that but it does depend on the weather. If you only need the fire at night you'll use less than if you've got to keep it in during the day in bad weather. Ours has always been 13 -16c per kilo around here,for olive, orange , etc. I now have olive delivered from Quesada in Jaén @ 7c a kilo BUT we have to buy a complete load ( 8,1tonnes ) . Most of the brits around here on the Puerto Lumbreras side use this supplier, many splitting the load between them. I do know someone who uses the whole 8t themselves as they like to be warm !!


I use up to 9 tonnes almond per year - the fire will be on 24hours when it is really cold, but I keep half the house (150 sq m) closed. I also live at 1000m so it can be well below zero on occasions. Walls are thick - nearly 1m, windows double glazed but no roof insulation


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I had log burners and inglenook fireplaces for more than 20 years and leaving the ash is the best way to build your fire up plus it stops it burning so fast. You grate will not over heat if you leave the ash.. if it does then the problem is the grate not the ash has been there.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> On the subject of not removing the ashes, be careful that you don't burn and distort the fire basket through overheating. In my experience, it is not the ashes you should leave but the cinders which, like a BBQ, will continue to give off a lot of heat and help to keep the fire burning if there is a decent draught through them until they turn to ash and all the combustible material has burnt away, but the ash just clogs and obstructs the airflow.


I suppose it depends on the type of fire that you have, but, as you say, if we leave the ashes in they just build up , don't let the air through and then you can't light the fire and it's difficult to keep it alight. Ours is a cassette type. The ashes fall through into a metal box with a handle that you take out to throw the ashes away.


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I did originally say on a new fire I wouldn't think of cleaning out ash for the first week, yes you have to take ash out to keep the flow but you do not need nor should you clean it right out every day..

common sense should tell you when you have to take some out


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> I did originally say on a new fire I wouldn't think of cleaning out ash for the first week, yes you have to take ash out to keep the flow but you do not need nor should you clean it right out every day..
> 
> common sense should tell you when you have to take some out


Trouble is, I don't like it left all dirty with the ash in!! I'm afraid I clean mine out every day so it looks better! I guess I just make work for myself....


----------



## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

I can remember when I was a kid living in East London in a place that had an open fire. The soot in the chimney caught alight one evening and it couldn't be put out with a water hose etc. It sounded like a earthquake when it got going and looked akin to a volcano at the top 3 floors up.
Fire brigade turned up and put it out after putting a huge plastic sheet down that covered the whole room.
Moral of the story I guess is don't leave your chimney unswept for too long or you'll end up toasting more that just your marsh-mellows


----------



## Rofa (Dec 3, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I suppose it depends on the type of fire that you have, but, as you say, if we leave the ashes in they just build up , don't let the air through and then you can't light the fire and it's difficult to keep it alight. Ours is a cassette type. The ashes fall through into a metal box with a handle that you take out to throw the ashes away.


Yes, that is the type I have. Having to run the fire quite often 24 hours per day means the tray has to be emptied, usually twice or three times per day. The problem then is that some ash, and worse cinder, tends to drop through when the tray is out and unless that is removed the tray won't seal properly when pushed back in. Which means the underfire air cannot be properly restricted and the fire will burn much too quickly. May be just a design flaw in my fire, but I'm sure it applies to others.


----------

