# Deciding on the right town



## kerg7 (Jul 20, 2013)

My partner and I will be re-locating to Mexico in 2014 and have been trying to decide on places that would be a good fit for us. So many towns look and sound beautiful, but we would love to have recommendations from those who are more familiar with living in Mexico.

Here are some things we're looking for:
- Walkability. We'd like to live in a city where we can walk to almost everything.
- Lively and vibrant atmosphere with lots to do.. cultural activities, dancing to live music. 
- Safe
- We would like our rent to be under 8000 pesos/ month with utilities included.. Less if utilities aren't included.
- Reliable internet.
- Great mercados!
- Younger ex-pat community (we're in our late 20s). It's also ok if the ex-pat community is full of a variety of ages! A "youthful energy" is what's most important to me. 
- We love to get our exercise outdoors.. Hiking nearby would be a plus... Or a town that wouldn't mind bicyclists or joggers.
- Affordable Spanish schools or a place to get Spanish lessons. I've taken some Spanish classes and will continue to study before we move, but I'm not fluent.

Thank you!


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Are you looking at coastal or inland locations? is this temporary or a permanite move ?


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

San Miguel or Lake Chapala area .... and you'd better spend a couple weeks in each before deciding. Maybe Vallarta if you can stand the summer heat


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Lake Chapala area and San Miguel are full of retirees not a great place for people in their 20´s.
Look for town with universities and or universities. As far as which town it really depends on the typ f climate you like and the type of life you want to have.. I would have looked at Guanajuato, Oaxaca, Puebla, Mexico City, Merida, San Cristobabal de las Casas , Vera Cruz and many other depending on your willingness to learn Spanish.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

You won't find a young community anywhere .... so the larger the amount of Expats the better to find a mix. Personally I would skip the Expat portion and just look at MEXICO as it is ... which is pretty interesting


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sparks said:


> You won't find a young community anywhere .... so the larger the amount of Expats the better to find a mix. Personally I would skip the Expat portion and just look at MEXICO as it is ... which is pretty interesting


Mightn't there be young expat communities at towns on the beach?


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Mightn't there be young expat communities at towns on the beach?


Seems Sayulita has a younger crowd.


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## kerg7 (Jul 20, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> Are you looking at coastal or inland locations? is this temporary or a permanite move ?


We've mostly been looking at inland locations, San Miguel and Guanajuato specifically. The move is temporary (at least 1 year), with the possibility of becoming permanent.


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## kerg7 (Jul 20, 2013)

sparks said:


> You won't find a young community anywhere .... so the larger the amount of Expats the better to find a mix. Personally I would skip the Expat portion and just look at MEXICO as it is ... which is pretty interesting


That sounds good to me. Thank you! I was mostly just wondering if a younger expat community existed or if the majority of expats are retirees.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Isla Verde said:


> Mightn't there be young expat communities at towns on the beach?


Only ones here are on vacation. Here today, gone tomorrow


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Guanajuato would be my choice over San Miguel if I were young. Lots of young people there, they speak Spanish but just invest time learning Spanish, you are young it will not be too tough and then you can enjoy Mexico fully.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

citlali said:


> Lake Chapala area and San Miguel are full of retirees not a great place for people in their 20´s.


Actually, the average age is quite young. Yes there are retirees, but I don't think you'll find the overall population of retirees, Mexican or expat, in a larger percentage than we see most other places. The key to finding balance is 1) having the ability to communicate in Spanish, and 2) liking Mexico for what it is, the real 'deal', and being flexible.



citlali said:


> I would have looked at Guanajuato, Oaxaca, Puebla, Mexico City, Merida, San Cristobabal de las Casas , Vera Cruz and many other depending on your willingness to learn Spanish.


Personally, I wouldn't choose Guanajuato - though the university is excellent and there are a lot of young people who travel there to study. But it's just too touristy, noisy and, at times, a struggle to explore on foot. I understand the tourist attraction there, but, for me, I wouldn't be comfortable living there. Oaxaca is way over-valued, IMO. A nice place to visit once and a while, but otherwise boring. I also don't like the type of expats I've met there, and the poverty can be depressing to live in/near. Mexico City is a winner, in my book. Anything and everything you could ever want is found there ... and it's alive 24/7/265. But many people are overwhelmed by the size and concentration of people. Lots and lots of young people, though. Merida? Well, what's not to like. Except the heat! It takes some adjustment to live there year-round and if someone has health callenges it can be dangerous to be there too long in the heat. It's a great cultural environment, though, and increasingly popular with expats. Again, lots of young people. Hell, then entire country has a lot of young people. las Casas? Forget it. Unless you want to live in Mexico but in a lifestyle more Central American/Guatemalan than Mexican, IMO. Too many oddball European tourists looking for the next revolution, and way too much obvious poverty for me to be comfortable living within. Beautiful place, when the weather is good. And interesting cultural differences between there and other parts of the country. Not for me, though.

Thanks.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Las Casas has a law university with plenty of young people, there are also a lot of younger expats who have businesses like pastry shops, restaurants, jewelers, artists, researchers who are from all over the world from Australia, to France, Italy, Argentina Spain, US and canada and many other countries. Many of them have intermarried and are not very noticeable. You just have to live there to meet them.
Not all young people are out to start a revolution, many of the hippy types come and go but many younger expat are there to work and live.
San Cristobal is more like central America than Mexico but Tuxtla is no and I see nothing wrong with Central America.
There are some nice cultural events in Las Casas and most young people I know like it and do not have a problem with the indigenous population like you seem to have.

As far as the age average in Chapala, you may be right about the Mexican population but I would love to know the average age for the expats . It is more like 60´s than ir 30´s .

I like Guanajuato and you do not have to live in the touristy areas, most colonial cities have touristy centers so does Oaxaca, Mericda, Puebla, Mexico City etc..There are lots of cultural events there and if you want to escape you can always viti other places around or go to San Miguel to get your dose of English speaking expats.

By the way where do you live in Mexico?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Edited to delete remarks, to be replaced by what follows (mistake in editing).


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

citlali said:


> By the way where do you live in Mexico?


I don't, now. I first lived in San Miguel de Allende for less than a year ... then Mexico City for 6. If I hadn't been working in Mexico City I probably would have stayed in San Miguel de Allende. (  ) The next place I'll likely live in Mexico is on the list which follows ... in order of current preference / enjoyability / anticipated lifestyle: 

Zacatecas (the city)
Chilapa, Guerrero
Tlaxcala (the city)
Mexico City
Acapulco

Thanks.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

citlali said:


> Las Casas has a law university with plenty of young people, there are also a lot of younger expats who have businesses like pastry shops, restaurants, jewelers, artists, researchers who are from all over the world from Australia, to France, Italy, Argentina Spain, US and canada and many other countries. Many of them have intermarried and are not very noticeable. You just have to live there to meet them.
> Not all young people are out to start a revolution, many of the hippy types come and go but many younger expat are there to work and live.
> San Cristobal is more like central America than Mexico but Tuxtla is no and I see nothing wrong with Central America.
> There are some nice cultural events in Las Casas and most young people I know like it and do not have a problem with the indigenous population like you seem to have.
> ...


Citali I agree, what is wrong with Central America, not too much other than violence and lack is a real judicial system, but then again Mexico is much the same. 

I visited San Cristobal years ago when a friend of mine opened a jade jewlery store called Casa del Jade. Today I believe his San Cristobal partner bought him out. But the times I went there to visit it reminded much like Antigua, Guatemala and to me that is a big compliment if someone says that. We enjoyed the evening cultural events they had, not sure if those types of things are still offered, but I felt very comfortable and safe no matter the time of night.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I like Central America so I do not have problem with a place feeling like Central America. 
I was just curious to hear in what cities Longford had lived since he was not comfortable with the poverty he saw in Oaxaca and in Chiapas or Oaxaca. Considering where he lived, I am surprised he did not see any poverty that upset him, Mexico City for one has plenty of it so has Zacatecas and so have most places on the list. When I was in San Miguel in 86 there was a big drive to get the women blankets in the hospital as the beds had no blankets and January is pretty cold there. 
I guess you see poverty when you chose to because I have seen it in all the cities mentioned except for Chilapa where I have not been, I saw plenty of it in Guerrero as well.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

FWIW, my daughter made the same move; to Italy, though.

She went for 6 months, to learn Italian, fell in love with the country (and, eventually, an Italian), and ended up going back to try to make it there as an certified ESL instructor.

Started in Rome (too expensive), then Bari for a long time, fell in love with a number of Italians (heh), finally settled on one who lived in the north, and there they are, together since 2007 and expecting their first child this fall. With all that, though, she has friends in all three cities.

If you approach the people your age in any place with good will, an understanding that you WON'T understand everything, because you are, after all, a foreigner, you can make good friends anywhere.

She has a large group of friends in Bari, and, in addition to her husband's circle, she has made her "own" friends in Vicenza. I have confidence that you can do the same in MX, with a willingness to learn about the culture and be as good a friend as you would like to have.


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Longford said:


> I don't, now. I first lived in San Miguel de Allende for less than a year ... then Mexico City for 6. If I hadn't been working in Mexico City I probably would have stayed in San Miguel de Allende. (  ) The next place I'll likely live in Mexico is on the list which follows ... in order of current preference / enjoyability / anticipated lifestyle:
> 
> Zacatecas (the city)
> Chilapa, Guerrero
> ...


Longford, are you planning to retire to Mexico, or is your work taking you back there?

Some of the posts on this board remind me of how little I know about Mexico. I've never even heard of Chilapa, Guerrero. I do know a little about the others on your list, although I've only been to two of them, Mexico City and Acapulco.

You mentioned in another thread why you like Mexico City so much, but would you mind sharing why you are considering the other cities that made your top 5 list?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Marishka said:


> Longford, are you planning to retire to Mexico, or is your work taking you back there?


The correct answer would be “planning to retire” and not “work taking you back there?” I had thought about moving back to open a small business, but given the increased level of criminal activity, extortion, kidnapping … directed toward small business owners in so many parts of the country I’ve had an interest in, the last thing I’d want to do is to engage in an activity which would draw the attention of the ‘bad guys.’ I can get into enough trouble on my own, without inviting the assistance of someone else!



Marishka said:


> Some of the posts on this board remind me of how little I know about Mexico. I've never even heard of Chilapa, Guerrero. I do know a little about the others on your list, although I've only been to two of them, Mexico City and Acapulco.


*Chilapa* is off the beaten path for expats. But it’s an area studied by social anthropologists internationally for the importance it’s played in the history of the region / country at various times. It’s a regional market center, in a valley at about 4,600 feet altitude, 100,000 people including one non-Mexican who farms maybe 15-minutes away. It’s a city where many traditions are observed. And it’s within easy reach of Acapulco (maybe 2 hours by car).

Chilapa:

Histsory: Chilapa de Álvarez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weather: Chilapa de Alvarez, Mexico Weather Forecast from Weather Underground



Marishka said:


> You mentioned in another thread why you like Mexico City so much, but would you mind sharing why you are considering the other cities that made your top 5 list?


*Zacatecas *(the city): Having had traveled throughout the country for 43 years at the time, my first visit to Zacatecas wasn’t until last year (if you don't count previous stopovers at the airport). I kept putting it off, even though I’ve had friends who lived there. I knew from the moment I set foot in the historic center and then moved about the city that we fit one another like a glove. Zacatecas is a colonial gem in Mexico where strong traditions are still observed. If someone likes San Miguel de Allende, they’d love Zacatecas, which is about twice the size of SMA at 130,000 people +/-, and situated at 8,000 ft. altitude. Winter temperatures can be cold in Zacatecas, however, but being from the Midwestern USA I’m accustomed to that and a seasonal low of about 35F would seem, for the time of the year, and compared to Chicago, like a ‘heat wave.’ There’s a university, more museums than you can shake a stick at, restaurants and coffee shops, and wonderful festivals. 

Zacatecas: 

History: Zacatecas, Zacatecas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weather: Average High/Low Temperatures for MMZC | Weather Underground

*Tlaxcala* (the city): One good reason to like Tlaxcala is that it’s just an hour and a half bus ride from Mexico City, and an hour or less from Puebla … and has none, or very few, of any negatives either of those two cities have. It’s well-positioned to take advantage of what those major population centers have to offer, when you need / want them. The city sits at 7,300 feet elevation and has a population in the range of about 90,000. Tlaxcala, the state, is a ranching state and within the boundaries there are some interesting archaeological zones. It’s a city/area where centuries-old traditions are still observed and there is a strong, local culture. There are numerous festivals yearly, including the state fair in November and the local observances of Dia de los Muertos.

Tlaxcala:

History: Tlaxcala, Tlaxcala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weather: Average High/Low Temperatures for MMPB | Weather Underground

*Acapulco:* Next to Mexico City, I’ve spent more time in Acapulco than at any other place in Mexico. I feel as if it’s a second home for me (next to Mexico City). Acapulco is big, bustling, and full of the good, bad and ugly a major market and transport center will be expected to encompass. The city, with a population in the metropolitan area that reaches about 1 million, sits at sea level and for much of the year it’s hot and humid. One has to like that type of weather and my experiences has been that relatively few expats want to live there year-round. Once someplace where the international jet set, and later middle-class Americans and Canadians would spend Winter months, visits by foreigners have dropped by probably 75% in recent years due to the war and associated violence. It’s a laid-back city that never seems to sleep. Whatever you want to do, buy, etc., is available in Acapulco. It’s an irreverent environment. It remains the favored vacation spot of more Mexicans than any other place in Mexico and the nation’s ‘rich and famous’ seem all to have homes there. That’s due primarily to it’s relatively close proximity to Mexico City (an easy 3.5 to 4 hour drive by car). For retirees who haven’t lived in Acapulco, the heat and humidity can present challenges to ones health. However, in my case, I’ve lived in Tucson, AZ and lived to tell the tale … hot/dry weather and all! I’ve found, though, on the plus side, that one can live reasonably well in Acapulco for relatively little money. A downside to Acapulco is the lack of good medical facilities.

Acapulco:

History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acapulco
Weather: Average High/Low Temperatures for MMAA | Weather Underground

The miscellaneous 'stuff':

I’ve traveled so widely through the country (for 44 years now) and have seen so many places that I know there are many other cities or towns where I could live happily in Mexico. 

As I’ve gotten older and reached a point that I’m probably within a couple or several years when I’ll retire, my needs / wants have changed. There are health issues now which never entered the realm of possibility for me 40, 30 or 20 years ago. Economics are also a concern, though less for me today than they were a decade go. Still, anyone of us who owns real estate in the USA or has a 401k retirement account (or other investments) understands the loss most of us suffered between 2007 and 2009/10. Some of us are better prepared than others. 

So, as one example, though I think I’d have a wonderful time living in Cuetzalan, Puebla … the undulating slippery stone streets moving up and down the mountainside would present future risks I’d want to avoid. So, it’s off my list. Someone suggested to me I should just close my eyes and toss a dart at a map of Mexico on a wall … and move there!

And I’ve also been exploring moving abroad to other countries right after I retire. To spend a year in a different country each year for maybe a span of ten years, until health issues crop-up and I gravitate back to where I'm most comfortable ... the USA. I’ve had the opportunity to travel to many countries which I’ve enjoyed. I could, I think, easily live in Ireland where I have a lot of family … or in Turkey, which I’ve liked very much (Istanbul, primarily) … or Thailand / Viet Nam … or India. The list goes on, and on.

Then there’s the parallel investigation / research I began two years ago regarding purchasing a motorhome or travel trailer and roaming Mexico, the USA and even Canada (where I have lots of family) for a decade. I came close to buying a motorhome two years ago, and once again last year …. and had to pull myself away from signing on the dotted line … because I hadn’t completely thought-through the economics of the purchase / lifestyle. I regularly read online blogs and websites maintained by expats who are RVing in Mexico. What a great time they’re having! Some full-time, most seasonally.

One of the things which allows me to consider Mexico my ‘oyster’ is my ability to communicate in Spanish. I can speak/understand sufficiently to live / travel almost anywhere in Mexico without relying on English-speakers. And that ability is a game-changer. For any one of us. Also, I long ago shed the desire to acquire material things in my life. Been there, done that. I can live simply, and enjoyably.

I hope some of this helps.

Thanks for asking.


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## regwill (Jul 2, 2013)

outstanding info , thank you !


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Longford said:


> I hope some of this helps.


Wow, does it ever! I was hoping for a sentence or two about why you were attracted to those cities, but you really went above and beyond the call of duty. What a great post!

I understand your wanderlust. My husband and I bought a four acre oceanfront coconut plantation on the Samana peninsula of the Dominican Republic, intending to build on it when we retire. Right after that, we bought 21 acres of land in Texas and built the home that we live in at the present time. It finally occurred to us that we would be living the same kind of life in the DR as we are living now--a peaceful, country life, except by the sea and in Spanish. After 13 years of that way of life, we've decided that we want less home maintenance and more adventure.

So we recently decided to sell both properties, but plan to keep our condo on a nearby lakeshore that we own as a rental property. We'll downsize to that condo and keep it as a "lock and leave" pied-à-terre in the U.S. We'll probably stay there for about three or four months a year, and spend the rest of the year "slow traveling."

We want to explore Mexico for at least the first two years, staying for three or four months in each city that most appeals to us. And who knows? If Mexico steals our hearts, we may end up moving there permanently.

I certainly agree with you about learning Spanish. My husband was raised in an expat family (his father worked in Venezuela, England, Abijan, and Australia) and he spent his childhood in Caracas, Venezuela. He learned Spanish there and still speaks it on a daily basis in his business.

I knew no Spanish at all, but started studying it after we bought our place in the DR. I didn't want my husband to have to act as a translator for me. I have built a good foundation in Spanish and still study about two hours a day. I want to work one-on-one with good teachers once I get to Mexico, so that I don't sound so much like a textbook! I believe that studying Spanish is the most important thing I've done to prepare for our future adventures.

Anyway, thank you so much for that wonderful post. I'll enjoy exploring the links you provided, and I'm sure that others will, as well.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I enjoyed your response about your experiences in Mexico and the changing importance one rightly places on adequate medical care as one gets older which reminded me of my rethinking our possible move from the "Lakeside" area of Lake Chapala with its large expat retiree colony so near the high quality medical environment of Guadalajara, to San Cristóbal de Las Casas after we bought a home down there some seven years ago. We were actually attracted to the old colonial center of San Cristóbal because it had so many characteristics similar to Central America including a large and colorful indigenous population and the fact that it is surrounded by independent indigenous communities of great interest to us. That area and much of Southern Mexico including Chiapas, Oaxaca and the states comprising the Yucatan Peninsula (culturally part of Southern Mexico if not altogether so geographically ) appeals to us for the region´s great beauty, varied landscapes and fascinating mix of ethnic groups. For that reason, although we live in the Chiapas Highlands, when down there, usually in the winter dry season, we travel about the region extensively using San Criatóbal as a home base. 

However, after seven years, we still have not attempted to move out of the Lake Chapala area with its fantastic climate and excellent physicians and medical facilities in nearby Guadalajara. People who have yet to move down here to Mexico fom NOB should not discount the importance of the availability of medical care nearby as one grows older and I found that out the hard way.

When we retired to Lake Chapala, we made sure we were well covered with top-notch major medical insurance by a highly reputable internationally recognized health insurer since catastrophic medical events are the events that can break one financially and we wanted to be sure to do what we could to avoid that and, also, to have access to the best physicians and hospttals available in Guadalajara or nationwide in case we became deathly ill and required advanced medical care from the best available wherever that might be in the nation.

Well. as we all know, "fate is the hunter" and, while we live at Lake Chapala much of the year, Dawg chose to become deathly ill with a malfunctioning gall bladder while we were living seasonally in San Cristóbal where the hospitals are pretty dreadful to say the least. So bad, in fact, that we had to pay for my gall bladder operation directly, accumulate facturas (very difficult to do down there since everyone is a tax cheat) and later claim reimbursement from the insurance company which they did eventually honor where we could present them with true facturas thanks to our outstanding insurance agent in Guadalajara. 

Despite the fact that the gall bladder operation took place in an utterly filthy hospital on New Years Eve (when most local physicians were getting loaded or at the beach), I survived that operaion in the only hospital in town with the facility adequate to carry out the operation but I lived through that experience to become a wiser man and with the understanding that even if you have insurance that will pay your evacuation costs to, say Mexico City or Guadalajara or Monterrey at your choice, when you are really, really sick and in need of an immediate live-saving operation, you get that operation where you are if at all possible even if evey hospital in that burg is so bad that not even one is rated acceptable by the insurance company.

Now,as far as the insurance copany was concerned, our residence address was still at Lake Chapala and.when they found out I was very sick down in Chiapas and in need of a major operation, they offered to fly me to any hospital in any city of my choice in Mexico for free to have the operation performed. Since was too sick to fly anywhere, I took my chances in the Chiapas charnal house and, luckily, survived. Later, in speaking with my agent, I expressed my delight at finding out the insurance company would pay for any medical evacuation I might need with an emergency flight to any hospital in the country and the agent responded, "No, I´m afraid that is no longer true. When they offered you that service, it was because they thought you were simply in Chiapas on vacation when you became ill. Now that they know you are residing in the boonies at your own election where the hospitals are so dreadful, they will contend that living there was your idea made of your own free will so the medical evcuation flight will not be available from Chiapas since that is your residence and, consequently, you are at home so no evacuation is called for." 

We no longer have any plans to sell the Lake Chapala property at all or the Chiapas property either for that matter.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks Hound Dog for sharing your experience. It provides additional information that all of us that are older should give serious thought to and further explains the rationale of the insurance agencies - which I can't argue with.


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

Longford said:


> I first lived in San Miguel de Allende for less than a year ... then Mexico City for 6. If I hadn't been working in Mexico City I probably would have stayed in San Miguel de Allende.(  ).


San Miguel de Allende is still on my short list, and will probably be either the first or second place we go in Mexico. Which colonia would you choose to live in if you were to return to San Miguel?


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