# How long can we holiday in spain?



## nanny san

We are coming over to alaurin de la torre in oct for at least 6 months in our motor home and if things work out we will look for a long term rent both my husband and I will be working and paying tax in the uk is there a maximum time we are allowed to stay before we have to apply for residency ? Any advice would be appreciated as we are totally oblivious to any rules we need to abide by and good or bad comments will be taken on board thanks in advance


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## baldilocks

nanny san said:


> We are coming over to alaurin de la torre in oct for at least 6 months in our motor home and if things work out we will look for a long term rent both my husband and I will be working and paying tax in the uk is there a maximum time we are allowed to stay before we have to apply for residency ? Any advice would be appreciated as we are totally oblivious to any rules we need to abide by and good or bad comments will be taken on board thanks in advance


Check the sticky's. 

AFAIA if you are here for more than three months you have to apply for residency. As a resident you will not be allowed to operate a foreign registered vehicle which must additionally be street legal in its country of origin at all times it is on the road (if British registered vehicle, that means have and display a valid VEL, have a valid MOT, have valid insurance) 

The only way you might get around the residency question is if you slip over the border into Portugal or France and then re-enter but you will have to have proof of this. 

Officially you cannot re-register a RHD motor caravan in Spain because of impaired vision through the vehicle from the driver's seat (although there are some organisations who claim to be able to do this on your behalf)


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## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> Check the sticky's.
> 
> AFAIA if you are here for more than three months you have to apply for residency. As a resident you will not be allowed to operate a foreign registered vehicle which must additionally be street legal in its country of origin at all times it is on the road (if British registered vehicle, that means have and display a valid VEL, have a valid MOT, have valid insurance)
> 
> The only way you might get around the residency question is if you slip over the border into Portugal or France and then re-enter but you will have to have proof of this.
> 
> Officially you cannot re-register a RHD motor caravan in Spain because of impaired vision through the vehicle from the driver's seat (although there are some organisations who claim to be able to do this on your behalf)


if the vehicle is going to be here less than a year I think they can get some sort of certificate at customs on the way over - it would then have to go back to the UK

there's something about that in the FAQ sticky too 

I'm not sure how registering as resident would work if they are travelling around in a motorhome :confused2:


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## jp1

The basic answer to your question is 6 months.

I am currently in Spain on a long vacation (with my UK car) whilst taking a career break. so I looked into this earlier this year and I have to say that the rules are not clear cut and as you can imagine rather a mess.

There are basically 3 issues:-

Residency
Tax residency
Vehicle licensing.

Residency and tax residency in general is defined under EU law.
Vehicle licensing is determined by the member state.

Spain allows you a period of 6 months to re-register your foreign car from the point you decided to become resident. This is generally interpreted as 6 months from entering the country by the Guardia Civil.

More than 183 days (non continuous within 1 year) in Spain then you will become tax resident which will be more hassle.

90 days continuous in Spain then you are required to register as resident. However this rule is flawed as if you intend to holiday for 100 days would you seriously register as resident when you intend to return home 10 days later.

Also taking this requirement further, Spain has now introduced additional rules for legal residency, namely sufficient funds to support yourself and private medical insurance, without these you will be refused legal residency.

So for example in my situation I a staying approximately 4 months in Spain. I am seriously expected to register as resident at 90 days when I intend to return home 30 or 40 days later. In addition I don't have private medical insurance so I would be refused and or laughed out of the office when I say I am on a long holiday but want to register as resident!!

So were back to the 6 months time limit as you have a vehicle that can be seized by the Guardia Civil if you can't prove that you are on holiday. So keep proof of when the vehicle entered the country.


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## Ironlung

Hi all, I can prove that I ran a search before I asked the question, my sister is coming to Spain with her car for 5 or 6 months she's heard that the 6 month time limit before needing to register the car mentioned below has changed to 1 month is this true?




jp1 said:


> The basic answer to your question is 6 months.
> 
> I am currently in Spain on a long vacation (with my UK car) whilst taking a career break. so I looked into this earlier this year and I have to say that the rules are not clear cut and as you can imagine rather a mess.
> 
> There are basically 3 issues:-
> 
> Residency
> Tax residency
> Vehicle licensing.
> 
> Residency and tax residency in general is defined under EU law.
> Vehicle licensing is determined by the member state.
> 
> Spain allows you a period of 6 months to re-register your foreign car from the point you decided to become resident. This is generally interpreted as 6 months from entering the country by the Guardia Civil.
> 
> More than 183 days (non continuous within 1 year) in Spain then you will become tax resident which will be more hassle.
> 
> 90 days continuous in Spain then you are required to register as resident. However this rule is flawed as if you intend to holiday for 100 days would you seriously register as resident when you intend to return home 10 days later.
> 
> Also taking this requirement further, Spain has now introduced additional rules for legal residency, namely sufficient funds to support yourself and private medical insurance, without these you will be refused legal residency.
> 
> So for example in my situation I a staying approximately 4 months in Spain. I am seriously expected to register as resident at 90 days when I intend to return home 30 or 40 days later. In addition I don't have private medical insurance so I would be refused and or laughed out of the office when I say I am on a long holiday but want to register as resident!!
> 
> So were back to the 6 months time limit as you have a vehicle that can be seized by the Guardia Civil if you can't prove that you are on holiday. So keep proof of when the vehicle entered the country.


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## xabiaxica

Ironlung said:


> Hi all, I can prove that I ran a search before I asked the question, my sister is coming to Spain with her car for 5 or 6 months she's heard that the 6 month time limit before needing to register the car mentioned below has changed to 1 month is this true?


:welcome:
yes that is one of the changes we're hearing about which come into effect in the next few months


I haven't had a chance to read it all yet but I did put a link to some info in our *FAQs sticky thread* a couple of weeks ago


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## snikpoh

I didn't think it ever was really 6 months to register a vehicle. 

I thought you had a maximum of 90 days to register as resident. You then had to have started the matriculation process which must be completed within a further 90 days.

So, the MAXIMUM time allowed is 6 months from date of entry to Spain but could be less.


Have I remembered wrongly?


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> I didn't think it ever was really 6 months to register a vehicle.
> 
> I thought you had a maximum of 90 days to register as resident. You then had to have started the matriculation process which must be completed within a further 90 days.
> 
> So, the MAXIMUM time allowed is 6 months from date of entry to Spain but could be less.
> 
> 
> Have I remembered wrongly?


yes that's how I remember it too


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## Ironlung

Excellent thank you all, so it's 90 days and 90 days now and that is soon to change, possibly to 30 days. If she's here for any amount of time she's going to have to register. 

Wow with all the lighting cafuffle she's probably better renting. She's in Murcia so she can't nip over the border easily either.





snikpoh said:


> I didn't think it ever was really 6 months to register a vehicle.
> 
> I thought you had a maximum of 90 days to register as resident. You then had to have started the matriculation process which must be completed within a further 90 days.
> 
> So, the MAXIMUM time allowed is 6 months from date of entry to Spain but could be less.
> 
> 
> Have I remembered wrongly?


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## NickZ

jp1 said:


> Vehicle licensing is determined by the member state.
> .


That's EU law also.

Non residents are allowed six months a year on the road. The other six months it can't be driven. So in theory you can leave your car year round at your vacation home . I've no idea how you prove it's not being driven.


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## xabiaxica

NickZ said:


> That's EU law also.
> 
> Non residents are allowed six months a year on the road. The other six months it can't be driven. So in theory you can leave your car year round at your vacation home . I've no idea how you prove it's not being driven.


from what I understand though that is one of the things which has changed/is about to change here

what they are saying iirc is that any vehicle kept in Spain will have to be on Spanish plates - even those owned by non-residents

again - not quite sure how they'd prove it - except that if a vehicle hadn't been back to its country of origin it's MOT (in the case of UK for instance) would expire


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## Aron

NickZ said:


> That's EU law also.
> 
> Non residents are allowed six months a year on the road. The other six months it can't be driven. So in theory you can leave your car year round at your vacation home . I've no idea how you prove it's not being driven.


A policeman told me, any car has to be matriculated if it is in Spain for over 6 months, irrespective of whether it is used or not.


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## zx10r-Al

Surely the easiest way to get around the residency issue is to buy a return ticket on a budget airline, but not take the flight. Do this every 85 days or so, keep your ticket information, and that should be sufficient proof that you go 'home' regularly? I doubt they would check whether every person actually boarded each plane.


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## NickZ

Aron said:


> A policeman told me, any car has to be matriculated if it is in Spain for over 6 months, irrespective of whether it is used or not.


But you would need to be a resident to do that. 

The whole point of the EU rule is to allow holiday home owners to have a car. 

Unless they allow non residents to register the car?


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## NickZ

EU - Registering your car in EU countries - length of stay

That only mentions the person and not the car.


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## jojo

zx10r-Al said:


> Surely the easiest way to get around the residency issue is to buy a return ticket on a budget airline, but not take the flight. Do this every 85 days or so, keep your ticket information, and that should be sufficient proof that you go 'home' regularly? I doubt they would check whether every person actually boarded each plane.


So this would mean someone is a tourist for........... ever???? so that they could drive a UK car in Spain?? 

What you have to remember tho is that if you're ever unfortunate to have a prang, you will have an insurance company who will be only too pleased to not pay out and if there was any doubt of the legality of the situation - well, no insurance and prosecution!! 

Jo xxx


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## Ironlung

Eeeek I'm confused now ut from what you're saying NickZ, it sounds like she's good to drive down for up to 6 months and go back home no problem. She's not resident here so she's fine.




NickZ said:


> But you would need to be a resident to do that.
> 
> The whole point of the EU rule is to allow holiday home owners to have a car.
> 
> Unless they allow non residents to register the car?


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## xabiaxica

NickZ said:


> But you would need to be a resident to do that.
> 
> The whole point of the EU rule is to allow holiday home owners to have a car.
> 
> Unless they allow non residents to register the car?


non-residents can buy cars - so I can't see any reason they wouldn't be able to re-matriculate one

all they need is the car, a NIE number & proof of a proper address - if we're talking holiday home owners then they'd have their escritura


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## NickZ

Ironlung said:


> Eeeek I'm confused now ut from what you're saying NickZ, it sounds like she's good to drive down for up to 6 months and go back home no problem. She's not resident here so she's fine.


Six months less a day. At least for the car .

But won't she have to register for residence after three months?


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## NickZ

xabiachica said:


> non-residents can buy cars


And register it in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

NickZ said:


> And register it in Spain?


yes


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## zx10r-Al

jojo said:


> So this would mean someone is a tourist for........... ever???? so that they could drive a UK car in Spain??
> 
> What you have to remember tho is that if you're ever unfortunate to have a prang, you will have an insurance company who will be only too pleased to not pay out and if there was any doubt of the legality of the situation - well, no insurance and prosecution!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well most insurance policies only cover you for 90 days EU cover in a year, so that in itself limits the time you can keep your car abroad. The OP needs to look into this.

My post about flying back regularly was to get around the residency issue.


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## gus-lopez

zx10r-Al said:


> Well most insurance policies only cover you for 90 days EU cover in a year, so that in itself limits the time you can keep your car abroad. The OP needs to look into this.
> 
> My post about flying back regularly was to get around the residency issue.


Insurance policies just revert to minimum road traffic acts under UK& EU law. You cannot have an uninsured vehicle . ( Assuming it was insured originally ) They will always pay out to 3rd parties in the event of an accident , just not you.

To overcome the 'residency ' just attend the National police station /foreigners office & obtain a " certificate of non-residency" 
Theoretically this is also obtainable at border crossings , but you'll struggle to find one of those when travelling by road these days.


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## baldilocks

zx10r-Al said:


> Surely the easiest way to get around the residency issue is to buy a return ticket on a budget airline, but not take the flight. Do this every 85 days or so, keep your ticket information, and that should be sufficient proof that you go 'home' regularly? I doubt they would check whether every person actually boarded each plane.


We cannot suggest illegalities!


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## Pesky Wesky

And what about the _*you are considered resident after being in Spain for 90 days*_, the idea being that you don't decide whether you become resident or not, you are merely by your continued presence


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## Ironlung

NickZ said:


> Six months less a day. At least for the car .
> 
> But won't she have to register for residence after three months?



I guess she can pop up to France for the day it's an 8 hour drive and she can visit me here in Barce 


Thanks for all your help everyone.


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## tommy.irene

We have people from Norway and Iceland who come here every year from 1st November till the end of May and then they go home and come back here again in November, and they have never done any paper work to live here after 90 days...


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## extranjero

tommy.irene said:


> We have people from Norway and Iceland who come here every year from 1st November till the end of May and then they go home and come back here again in November, and they have never done any paper work to live here after 90 days...


Why not? After all, they are legally obliged to sign on the foreigners register, and also register on the Spanish tax system.
Is it that they don't know in which case ignorance is no excuse, or is it that they don't want to know?


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## baldilocks

tommy.irene said:


> We have people from Norway and Iceland who come here every year from 1st November till the end of May and then they go home and come back here again in November, and they have never done any paper work to live here after 90 days...


Like many others, they probably make no financial contribution to the cost of the infrastructure. This means that we (including you) pay more to make up for the shortfall in revenues


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## tommy.irene

They are only here for the winter.. _minus20 back home +20 here ..There are thousands of them here on there winter holiday which lasts for 6 months or more.. No one stops them they spend money here.


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## jojo

I have to say I know of a lot of people who do this too - they're affectionately know as "the winterers" in Nerja - my best friend and her husband do. They drive from France to Spain in October/November and stay til April, and have done for the last 5 years, along with many others who they meet up with there - including me, altho I/we dont stay for the duration, but we do visit alot. I dont know how they sort out things like healthcare - my friend has private health insurance, but the others I guess rely on their EHIC cards?

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I have to say I know of a lot of people who do this too - they're affectionately know as "the winterers" in Nerja - my best friend and her husband do. They drive from France to Spain in October/November and stay til April, and have done for the last 5 years, along with many others who they meet up with there - including me, altho I/we dont stay for the duration, but we do visit alot. I dont know how they sort out things like healthcare - my friend has private health insurance, but the others I guess rely on their EHIC cards?
> 
> Jo xxx





tommy.irene said:


> They are only here for the winter.. _minus20 back home +20 here ..There are thousands of them here on there winter holiday which lasts for 6 months or more.. No one stops them they spend money here.


so they are in Spain more time than in whatever country they come from?

they should at the very least register on the padrón so that the ayto gets payment for them to go towards the town's coffers for things like healthcare, the fire service etc

also, if they are here 6 months+ a year they are tax resident so should be doing tax returns & possibly paying tax - not to mention the asset declaration issue


do you know for sure that they aren't 'legal' ?


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## Leper

I've read through the posts on this thread. I cannot help thinking that for some reason Spain (although heavily reliant) on any kind of tourism is acting the stupid way it is.

Ireland is one such country in which tourism is a major industry. In fact, anybody who comes here to visit we do everything to nail them down (perhaps I should have said "super-glue"). We need money from visitors. We look disdainfully at 'Pierre' bringing his motorhome from France along with his food, drink and anything else he doesn't need to buy here. We'll do anything to get visitors to spend.

I thought when we entered the EU we were going to become some kind of United States of Europe and borders were not going to be a deterrent to EU Members. The Spaniards (true-to-form) do everything possible to keep EU people out who will be spending money. I have to ask (in line with the amount of illegal immigrants from outside the EU in Spain for years and years) is the Spanish government capable of thinking favourably towards its EU tourists?

Let's look at this another way. A Spaniard arrives in Ireland and falls in love with one of beautiful Irish cailíní (girls) and decides to stay for months/years to cement the relationship. What would the Spanish think if we forced him to pay taxes in Ireland, fill out residencia forms, ban him from using EHIC card. Or worse again after 90 days we demanded he return to Spain. I have no doubt the Spanish media would be screaming RACISM. 

While I stay for fairly long periods in Spain I often wonder if there was less football, less stupid soap operas, a lesser amount of programmes promising to make Maria-José into an international pop star etc - would the Spanish government act more cordially to its long-term tourists? Or can I ask:- Are they brain-dead?


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## xabiaxica

Leper said:


> I've read through the posts on this thread. I cannot help thinking that for some reason Spain (although heavily reliant) on any kind of tourism is acting the stupid way it is.
> 
> Ireland is one such country in which tourism is a major industry. In fact, anybody who comes here to visit we do everything to nail them down (perhaps I should have said "super-glue"). We need money from visitors. We look disdainfully at 'Pierre' bringing his motorhome from France along with his food, drink and anything else he doesn't need to buy here. We'll do anything to get visitors to spend.
> 
> I thought when we entered the EU we were going to become some kind of United States of Europe and borders were not going to be a deterrent to EU Members. The Spaniards (true-to-form) do everything possible to keep EU people out who will be spending money. I have to ask (in line with the amount of illegal immigrants from outside the EU in Spain for years and years) is the Spanish government capable of thinking favourably towards its EU tourists?
> 
> Let's look at this another way. A Spaniard arrives in Ireland and falls in love with one of beautiful Irish cailíní (girls) and decides to stay for months/years to cement the relationship. What would the Spanish think if we forced him to pay taxes in Ireland, fill out residencia forms, ban him from using EHIC card. Or worse again after 90 days we demanded he return to Spain. I have no doubt the Spanish media would be screaming RACISM.
> 
> While I stay for fairly long periods in Spain I often wonder if there was less football, less stupid soap operas, a lesser amount of programmes promising to make Maria-José into an international pop star etc - would the Spanish government act more cordially to its long-term tourists? Or can I ask:- Are they brain-dead?


but we're talking about people who are here in Spain *every year *for longer than they are 'at home'. So where do they really live? Are they really tourists?

& it's not that Spain refuses to accept the EHIC per se - it's that the issuing country won't pay the bill if they believe the card holder to be abusing its use - it's for holidays, & you are not considered to be on holiday - in any EU country - after 90 days. Why should Spain foot the bill for healthcare for tourists?

Spain doesn't demand that after 90 days an EU citizen leave the country - simply that they register their presence - & they won't get thrown out if they don't - but they are resident by default, simply by their presence

the registration rules are EU rules - not Spanish - some countries choose not to enforce them, although they are in place - even in the UK


& yes - Ireland _would _expect someone moving there to do everything you say


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## Pesky Wesky

Leper said:


> I've read through the posts on this thread. I cannot help thinking that for some reason Spain (although heavily reliant) on any kind of tourism is acting the stupid way it is.
> 
> Ireland is one such country in which tourism is a major industry. In fact, anybody who comes here to visit we do everything to nail them down (perhaps I should have said "super-glue"). We need money from visitors. We look disdainfully at 'Pierre' bringing his motorhome from France along with his food, drink and anything else he doesn't need to buy here. We'll do anything to get visitors to spend.
> 
> I thought when we entered the EU we were going to become some kind of United States of Europe and borders were not going to be a deterrent to EU Members. The Spaniards (true-to-form) do everything possible to keep EU people out who will be spending money. I have to ask (in line with the amount of illegal immigrants from outside the EU in Spain for years and years) is the Spanish government capable of thinking favourably towards its EU tourists?
> 
> Let's look at this another way. A Spaniard arrives in Ireland and falls in love with one of beautiful Irish cailíní (girls) and decides to stay for months/years to cement the relationship. What would the Spanish think if we forced him to pay taxes in Ireland, fill out residencia forms, ban him from using EHIC card. Or worse again after 90 days we demanded he return to Spain. I have no doubt the Spanish media would be screaming RACISM.
> 
> While I stay for fairly long periods in Spain I often wonder if there was less football, less stupid soap operas, a lesser amount of programmes promising to make Maria-José into an international pop star etc - would the Spanish government act more cordially to its long-term tourists? Or can I ask:- Are they brain-dead?


I see you edited this post for grammar reasons.
It should have been for content...


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> so they are in Spain more time than in whatever country they come from?
> 
> they should at the very least register on the padrón so that the ayto gets payment for them to go towards the town's coffers for things like healthcare, the fire service etc
> 
> also, if they are here 6 months+ a year they are tax resident so should be doing tax returns & possibly paying tax - not to mention the asset declaration issue
> 
> 
> do you know for sure that they aren't 'legal' ?


 I've no idea what my friends do about tax etc - I know they own several properties in the UK and one in France. France is where they call "home. I have no idea on how legal they might be, but their circumstances are such that they leave that sort of thing to their accountants. I do know that a couple of years ago, they needed an NIE number to rent (??) and they used mine and I technically rented the property - I stayed there for a while (I went back and forth). As for other "Winterers"???? I've no idea and its not my place or business to ask.


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I've no idea what my friends do about tax etc - I know they own several properties in the UK and one in France. France is where they call "home. I have no idea on how legal they might be, but their circumstances are such that they leave that sort of thing to their accountants. I do know that a couple of years ago, they needed an NIE number to rent (??) and they used mine and I technically rented the property - I stayed there for a while (I went back and forth). As for other "Winterers"???? I've no idea and its not my place or business to ask.
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I know you wouldn't ask - but tommy seems certain that those where he lives aren't registered in any way

that question was more for him

however - if you had to use your NIE for the rental for your friends, didn't that ring bells with you?


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## baldilocks

jojo said:


> I've no idea what my friends do about tax etc - I know they own several properties in the UK and one in France. France is where they call "home. I have no idea on how legal they might be, but their circumstances are such that they leave that sort of thing to their accountants. I do know that a couple of years ago, they needed an NIE number to rent (??) and they used mine and I technically rented the property - I stayed there for a while (I went back and forth). As for other "Winterers"???? I've no idea and its not my place or business to ask.
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Aha! A self-confessed criminal!


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## Leper

xabiachica said:


> but we're talking about people who are here in Spain *every year *for longer than they are 'at home'. So where do they really live? Are they really tourists?
> 
> & it's not that Spain refuses to accept the EHIC per se - it's that the issuing country won't pay the bill if they believe the card holder to be abusing its use - it's for holidays, & you are not considered to be on holiday - in any EU country - after 90 days. Why should Spain foot the bill for healthcare for tourists?
> 
> Spain doesn't demand that after 90 days an EU citizen leave the country - simply that they register their presence - & they won't get thrown out if they don't - but they are resident by default, simply by their presence
> 
> the registration rules are EU rules - not Spanish - some countries choose not to enforce them, although they are in place - even in the UK
> 
> 
> & yes - Ireland _would _expect someone moving there to do everything you say


1. I'm Irish. I spend several months every year in Spain. I'm still Irish, I pay my taxes, household charges etc in Ireland. I see no reason whatsoever why as a EU citizen that suddenly I should become Spanish or pay income tax in Spain.

2. Spain does demand that if I do not register that I should leave the country. Why should I register when I pay all my taxes in Ireland? We do not demand that Spaniards register and pay taxes in Ireland after three or six months residency.

3. When I visit the local Centro Médico the receptionist does everything to ensure that I am banished from the centre without any sort of treatment. Fortunately, I speak good Spanish and am involved in the hospital business in Ireland and I know the regulations backwards. Before I finish my first burst of anti bullying Spanish I am allotted a doctor fairly fast. Incidentally, Ireland ensures that non-nationals attending any of our health centres are treated promptly and for free.

4. If Spain is not prepared to embrace EU Laws what is it doing in the EU? I notice that the UK and Ireland enforce EU Regulations willingly. Why is Spain, Italy etc allowed to flout the laws?


5. I wish to point out that I spend most of my time in Ireland. I am really an Irish national. I do not have to wonder whether I am a tourist or not because I am a tourist when I visit Spain. The one thing that I do wonder is how can a country in deep recession behave as it does towards its allies in the EU. Irish history informs us that if the Spanish Armada succeeded people in GB would today be speaking Spanish. That would not have happened in Ireland. So perhaps we have some reason to thank the UK and Irish weather.

While I enjoy the pace of life in Spain. I have Spanish friends and they visit us in Ireland regularly. I am fully aware that I am a guest in their country. In fact, I love visiting Spain and even do what I can to promote Irish people to visit Spain. I cannot understand why many Spaniards do not leave any opportunity pass without kicking us (non Spanish EU citizens) in the teeth for even small minded reasons.


[Please note, I am calling the situation as it is and nothing untoward is meant except to those stupid officials who go out of their racist way to flout EU Law ]


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## xabiaxica

Leper said:


> 1. I'm Irish. I spend several months every year in Spain. I'm still Irish, I pay my taxes, household charges etc in Ireland. I see no reason whatsoever why as a EU citizen that suddenly I should become Spanish or pay income tax in Spain.
> several months isn't the same as more than half the year & your nationality is neither here nor there as far as tax is concerened - what matters is where you are resident for tax purposes
> 2. Spain does demand that if I do not register that I should leave the country. Why should I register when I pay all my taxes in Ireland? We do not demand that Spaniards register and pay taxes in Ireland after three or six months residency.
> Spain does not, would not & cannot make you leave the country if you don't register after 90 days - you can however be fined
> 
> 3. When I visit the local Centro Médico the receptionist does everything to ensure that I am banished from the centre without any sort of treatment. Fortunately, I speak good Spanish and am involved in the hospital business in Ireland and I know the regulations backwards. Before I finish my first burst of anti bullying Spanish I am allotted a doctor fairly fast. Incidentally, Ireland ensures that non-nationals attending any of our health centres are treated promptly and for free.
> If the computer shows that you have been using the centro de sauld on a regular basis it would 'appear' that you are resident. You clearly manage to convince them of the fact that you aren't. This is happeneing because of the 1000s of people who do live here & use their EHIC cards 'illegally'. As I said - the issuing country can & does refuse to pay the bill if the use of the card has been abused
> 
> 4. If Spain is not prepared to embrace EU Laws what is it doing in the EU? I notice that the UK and Ireland enforce EU Regulations willingly. Why is Spain, Italy etc allowed to flout the laws?
> 
> Spain _is _embracing the EU guidelines - that's what they are - other countries choose not to
> While I enjoy the pace of life in Spain. I have Spanish friends and they visit us in Ireland regularly. I am fully aware that I am a guest in their country. In fact, I love visiting Spain and even do what I can to promote Irish people to visit Spain. I cannot understand why Spaniards do not leave any opportunity pass without kicking us (non Spanish EU citizens) in the teeth for even small minded reasons.
> 
> [Please note, I am calling the situation as it is and nothing untoward is meant except to those stupid officials who go out of their racist way to flout EU Law ]


my replies in red


----------



## NickZ

Leper said:


> 1. I'm Irish. I spend several months every year in Spain. I'm still Irish, I pay my taxes, household charges etc in Ireland. I see no reason whatsoever why as a EU citizen that suddenly I should become Spanish or pay income tax in Spain.
> 
> 2. Spain does demand that if I do not register that I should leave the country. Why should I register when I pay all my taxes in Ireland? We do not demand that Spaniards register and pay taxes in Ireland after three or six months residency.
> 
> 3. When I visit the local Centro Médico the receptionist does everything to ensure that I am banished from the centre without any sort of treatment. Fortunately, I speak good Spanish and am involved in the hospital business in Ireland and I know the regulations backwards. Before I finish my first burst of anti bullying Spanish I am allotted a doctor fairly fast. Incidentally, Ireland ensures that non-nationals attending any of our health centres are treated promptly and for free.
> 
> 4. If Spain is not prepared to embrace EU Laws what is it doing in the EU? I notice that the UK and Ireland enforce EU Regulations willingly. Why is Spain, Italy etc allowed to flout the laws?
> 
> 
> 5. I wish to point out that I spend most of my time in Ireland. I am really an Irish national. I do not have to wonder whether I am a tourist or not because I am a tourist when I visit Spain. The one thing that I do wonder is how can a country in deep recession behave as it does towards its allies in the EU. Irish history informs us that if the Spanish Armada succeeded people in GB would today be speaking Spanish. That would not have happened in Ireland. So perhaps we have some reason to thank the UK and Irish weather.
> 
> While I enjoy the pace of life in Spain. I have Spanish friends and they visit us in Ireland regularly. I am fully aware that I am a guest in their country. In fact, I love visiting Spain and even do what I can to promote Irish people to visit Spain. I cannot understand why many Spaniards do not leave any opportunity pass without kicking us (non Spanish EU citizens) in the teeth for even small minded reasons.
> 
> 
> [Please note, I am calling the situation as it is and nothing untoward is meant except to those stupid officials who go out of their racist way to flout EU Law ]



1) Ireland has signed various income tax treaties. It's those treaties signed by Ireland that would be used to possibly class you a Spanish tax resident.

2) Because Spain along with France,Italy and Greece has been flooded by "retired" and other non tax payers? Why should these countries provide services to people who have never provided anything to them?

3) Consider Ireland for decades has been receiving funding from the EU tax payer it's NOT Ireland that is paying for those services. It's the Spanish tax payers.

4) Which laws? Those laws that have required both countries to waste billions saving Ireland?

5) Don't you think a little gratitude toward the Spanish people that are starving to save Ireland would be nice?

Your attitude is a good example why anti EU sentiment is growing. Countries like Ireland that for decades have leached off the others complaining that the others are the problem. 

Maybe the Irish people should start paying their way ?


----------



## Leper

We have all written extensively on the subject. While I type I am listening to Ryanair's Michael O'Leary on national radio informing us that Irish Tourism is in for a boost this year. He is laying on extra flights (+ boasting about his new relaxed carry-on luggage rules and more friendly website). Ireland Ltd needs the tourism. Ours is a real and friendly welcome. We cannot guarantee the weather. We do not fine people for spending more than 90 days here, in fact we give them reason to return as often as they can. We do not ban them from our Medical Centres. We try to ensure that our visitors are treated as well as possible.

If somebody does not know where he is from (as mooted earlier) i.e spending eight/nine months per year in Spain; it is not the problem of the guy who spends 92 days there. So now I can be fined for spending 92 days in Spain! Their law is there, it is racist to say the least.

I never mentioned any regular weekly/monthly/yearly visits to Centros Médico. I am talking perhaps a once-a-year visit (emergency only) and not even in the same month as previously. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pesky Wesky wrote:- I see you edited this post for grammar reasons.
It should have been for content...
Today 07:17 AM

You have the advantage of me there; I don't know what you mean??????????


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I know you wouldn't ask - but tommy seems certain that those where he lives aren't registered in any way
> 
> that question was more for him
> 
> however - if you had to use your NIE for the rental for your friends, didn't that ring bells with you?


I felt it was more because the agent was being petty actually. Anyway, we were sort of renting together, they were to stay there for the duration and we had the use of (they had the upstairs and we had the downstairs in more ways than one, but thats another story) When the agent asked for an NIE number, my friend phoned me and I could hardly say no could I lol!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

Leper said:


> We have all written extensively on the subject. While I type I am listening to Ryanair's Michael O'Leary on national radio informing us that Irish Tourism is in for a boost this year. He is laying on extra flights (+ boasting about his new relaxed carry-on luggage rules and more friendly website). Ireland Ltd needs the tourism. Ours is a real and friendly welcome. We cannot guarantee the weather. We do not fine people for spending more than 90 days here, in fact we give them reason to return as often as they can. We do not ban them from our Medical Centres. We try to ensure that our visitors are treated as well as possible.
> 
> If somebody does not know where he is from (as mooted earlier) i.e spending eight/nine months per year in Spain; it is not the problem of the guy who spends 92 days there. So now I can be fined for spending 92 days in Spain! Their law is there, it is racist to say the least.
> 
> I never mentioned any regular weekly/monthly/yearly visits to Centros Médico. I am talking perhaps a once-a-year visit (emergency only) and not even in the same month as previously.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Pesky Wesky wrote:- I see you edited this post for grammar reasons.
> It should have been for content...
> Today 07:17 AM
> 
> You have the advantage of me there; I don't know what you mean??????????


maybe if Ireland had as many foreign residents taking the p·$% & pretending to be tourists as Spain does it might be different

Ireland & all the other EU countries can if they choose to apply exactly the same laws

& tbh I've never yet heard of anyone actually being fined in Spain - but they could be, as they could be in Ireland


----------



## Leper

NickZ said:


> 1) Ireland has signed various income tax treaties. It's those treaties signed by Ireland that would be used to possibly class you a Spanish tax resident.
> 
> 2) Because Spain along with France,Italy and Greece has been flooded by "retired" and other non tax payers? Why should these countries provide services to people who have never provided anything to them?
> 
> 3) Consider Ireland for decades has been receiving funding from the EU tax payer it's NOT Ireland that is paying for those services. It's the Spanish tax payers.
> 
> 4) Which laws? Those laws that have required both countries to waste billions saving Ireland?
> 
> 5) Don't you think a little gratitude toward the Spanish people that are starving to save Ireland would be nice?
> 
> Your attitude is a good example why anti EU sentiment is growing. Countries like Ireland that for decades have leached off the others complaining that the others are the problem.
> 
> Maybe the Irish people should start paying their way ?


1. You use the word 'possibly' - We have the option of dual nationality if we wish. I am Irish, proud and will not renounce my nationality. I do not have to either. You do whatever you wish, that's up to you.

2.Ireland is flooded with many non-nationals. We make them feel welcome. We employ them etc. I am not saying that our non-national ethos is perfect but we don't have anything like UK's National Front here (just stating a fact).

3. Your third point is particularly offensive. Remember it is not too long since the EU bailed out the UK in fairly similar circumstances. I would like to point out here that the UK helped bail out Ireland earlier in this recession. That aid was welcomed unreservedly. The British PM at the time informed people that it was in GB's interest to help the Irish plight and if we went further under, the economy of the UK would suffer.

5. Gratitude for what. Where I live occasionally in Spain tracts of land and many properties were handed out free to non-Spanish nationals to reinvigorate life into the region. This happened and many foreigners embraced the idea. We owe not more gratitude to Spain that we do to any other country of the EU.

Ireland has not leeched off others. We have and are paying our foreign debts. The Irish people have been set up as an example by Angela Merkele (German Chancellor) as to how a people should react to what has happened. Ireland has been in worse situations down the centuries. This current recession will be overcome by Irish people no matter how long it takes. Remember, there are only four million of us but when the chips are down we box well above our weight.


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## tommy.irene

xabiachica said:


> I know you wouldn't ask - but tommy seems certain that those where he lives aren't registered in any way
> 
> that question was more for him
> 
> however - if you had to use your NIE for the rental for your friends, didn't that ring bells with you?


The people from Norway and Iceland just show their passports to rent apartments.. Stay 6 months and go home.. They use supermarkets ,bars,and cafes here and are good spenders.. I asked some of them if they were on the pardon and they said no they only came here for their winter break and didnt sign on to anything.. they have their own health insurance and some get a pension of €2000 to €4000 a month.


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## baldilocks

tommy.irene said:


> The people from Norway and Iceland just show their passports to rent apartments.. Stay 6 months and go home.. They use supermarkets ,bars,and cafes here and are good spenders.. I asked some of them if they were on the pardon and they said no they only came here for their winter break and didnt sign on to anything.. they have their own health insurance and some get a pension of €2000 to €4000 a month.


So they spend - where? Shops and bars where the profits go into the pockets of a wealthy few. How much do they pay towards the infrastructure that they use so freely? OK so we expect to subsidise the genuine holidaymaker who is here for maybe a couple of weeks, just as they subsidise us when we go to their country but these people are spending half their lives here. Shouldn't they pay something towards what they are using?


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## jojo

baldilocks said:


> So they spend - where? Shops and bars where the profits go into the pockets of a wealthy few. How much do they pay towards the infrastructure that they use so freely? OK so we expect to subsidise the genuine holidaymaker who is here for maybe a couple of weeks, just as they subsidise us when we go to their country but these people are spending half their lives here. Shouldn't they pay something towards what they are using?



I'm not sure what the answer is, but these visitors who stay for 6 months or so, DO put money in the economy, they pay for rent, utilities, petrol, general spending (not all shops and bars are owned by "the wealthy few" and in anycase, even they pay taxes on their income) and it must be a headache - not only for accountants and the various tax offices if they change their criteria every 6 months?? In the end tho, if its too much hassle, folk just wont bother to Spain for the winter - and that would be a shame for everyone.


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I'm not sure what the answer is, but these visitors who stay for 6 months or so, DO put money in the economy, they pay for rent, utilities, petrol, general spending (not all shops and bars are owned by "the wealthy few" and in anycase, even they pay taxes on their income) and it must be a headache - not only for accountants and the various tax offices if they change their criteria every 6 months?? In the end tho, if its too much hassle, folk just wont bother to Spain for the winter - and that would be a shame for everyone.
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


but if they're here *every year *for more than 6 months they *live here 

*& should therefore be registered tax residents etc

they wouldn't have to be changing anything every 6 months - the would be on paper, what they are already in fact - residents of Spain


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## Pesky Wesky

Leper said:


> 1. You use the word 'possibly' - We have the option of dual nationality if we wish. I am Irish, proud and will not renounce my nationality. I do not have to either. You do whatever you wish, that's up to you.
> 
> .


Renounce nationality?
Being resident in Spain is nothing to do with renouncing nationality, Irish or otherwise.



> Pesky Wesky wrote:- I see you edited this post for grammar reasons.
> It should have been for content...
> Today 07:17 AM
> 
> You have the advantage of me there; I don't know what you mean??????????


I meant that the content of your post was wrong and needed to be corrected, just like the grammar


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> but if they're here *every year *for more than 6 months they *live here
> 
> *& should therefore be registered tax residents etc
> 
> they wouldn't have to be changing anything every 6 months - the would be on paper, what they are already in fact - residents of Spain


They need to leave Spain a day early then or make a trip back for a day or two to re-start the clock???. Cos, (and dont get me wrong, I dont have any opinion on it), I guess most see it that they own property in the UK, they have their belongings, family, friends, affairs in the UK, but dont want to spend the winter there and some may not want to spend next winter in Spain - they may choose Italy for example. One couple I know, drive down slowly thru France and live in their camper van for a few months and when they leave Spain, they travel around Portugal and take the scenic route back to the UK, in fact they spend more time out of the UK than they do in it. When they retired they decided to travel and they do. 

I would think that eventually the EU, should we stay in it, will/should take this into account????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> They need to leave Spain a day early then or make a trip back for a day or two to re-start the clock???. Cos, (and dont get me wrong, I dont have any opinion on it), I guess most see it that they own property in the UK, they have their belongings, family, friends, affairs in the UK, but dont want to spend the winter there and some may not want to spend next winter in Spain - they may choose Italy for example. One couple I know, drive down slowly thru France and live in their camper van for a few months and when they leave Spain, they travel around Portugal and take the scenic route back to the UK, in fact they spend more time out of the UK than they do in it. When they retired they decided to travel and they do.
> 
> I would think that eventually the EU, should we stay in it, will/should take this into account????
> 
> Jo xxx


you can't restart the clock on tax residency - it's cumulative - so they can only stay 182 days in 12 months - so yes, they can leave before they clock up that number of days - but they then have to stay away 

for instance - if they arrive at the beginning of October that's 92 days until the end of the year - which is fine as long as they haven't already spent 91 days in Spain earlier in the year

if they then stay until the end of March that's 93 days that year - so if they plan to return the following winter they must make sure they are only here another 89 days by the end of December

more than that means they are tax resident, because they spend more than half the year in Spain

it doesn't matter where they 'think' they live - it's just how it is

those travelling around Europe are different - if they aren't staying in any one country for 6 months & have their main home/property in just one - then that's the country in which they are tax resident

if the UK left the EU then I would imagine that ass non-EU citizens, Brits would only be allowed to stay 90 days out of every 180


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## jojo

I've just mentioned this to my friend (shes just coincidentally phoned and they're back in France now anyway) She seems to think their accountant told them to nominated a country as their main residence and because they class France as their home, thats where they chose - apparently, thats how its done with folk who travel alot??!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I've just mentioned this to my friend (shes just coincidentally phoned and they're back in France now anyway) She seems to think their accountant told them to nominated a country as their main residence and because they class France as their home, thats where they chose - apparently, thats how its done with folk who travel alot??!
> 
> Jo xxx


people who travel a lot yes, as I said in my post - but not if you just spend time in two countries & you spend more in one than the other

France I'm sure would claim that your friends are tax resident there - but equally if they are in Spain longer each year than in France - Spain has a very strong case for them being tax resident here


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## tommy.irene

jojo said:


> I'm not sure what the answer is, but these visitors who stay for 6 months or so, DO put money in the economy, they pay for rent, utilities, petrol, general spending (not all shops and bars are owned by "the wealthy few" and in anycase, even they pay taxes on their income) and it must be a headache - not only for accountants and the various tax offices if they change their criteria every 6 months?? In the end tho, if its too much hassle, folk just wont bother to Spain for the winter - and that would be a shame for everyone.
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


The wealthy few.. ha..ha .. my mate only get his business from them and closes when they go home ..the british that come here would rather go all inclusive.. they dont spend much.


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## zx10r-Al

Would the year run Jan-dec or april-march for tax?


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## xabiaxica

zx10r-Al said:


> Would the year run Jan-dec or april-march for tax?


Jan - Dec


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## Rabbitcat

Just reading through this thread re residency/ using UK car in Spain 

Seems to me that if I was to go over there for 5 month hols at a time I would be better NOT taking residency as being non resident allows me up to 6 months at a time using my Uk car in Spain.

The gist of the thread seems to imply for those extra 8 weeks I will be staying beyond the 90 days its not worth bothering taking residency???


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## tommy.irene

The people who come here to Gran Canaria from November to April dont go to any Were to regester they are here . They are from Norway ..iceland..Germany and other cold winter countries..They leave their cars here and go home..


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## xabiaxica

tommy.irene said:


> The people who come here to Gran Canaria from November to April dont go to any Were to regester they are here . They are from Norway ..iceland..Germany and other cold winter countries..They leave their cars here and go home..


but they are breaking the law.......


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## tommy.irene

xabiachica said:


> but they are breaking the law.......


Try telling them that... They come here every year..some own bars and only open them in the 6 or 7 month they are here. There are over 1million 6 or 7 months short stay people here for the winter months...Go after them and they wont come back..They say they dont live here this is just for holidays..


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## xabiaxica

tommy.irene said:


> Try telling them that... They come here every year..some own bars and only open them in the 6 or 7 month they are here. There are over 1million 6 or 7 months short stay people here for the winter months...Go after them and they wont come back..They say they dont live here this is just for holidays..


if they are running businesses here , they must surely be in the system tax & otherwise -or are the police turning a blind eye ??

if they were doing it here, (even without running a business) there's a good chance that the Guardia would have visited them by now & insisted that they get their paperwork in order

which includes submitting tax returns

they might 'get away with it' where you are - but not in my area


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## baldilocks

Rabbitcat said:


> Just reading through this thread re residency/ using UK car in Spain
> 
> Seems to me that if I was to go over there for 5 month hols at a time I would be better NOT taking residency as being non resident allows me up to 6 months at a time using my Uk car in Spain.
> 
> The gist of the thread seems to imply for those extra 8 weeks I will be staying beyond the 90 days its not worth bothering taking residency???


it would not be a case of "not taking" residency you will be classed as a resident after 90 days and will have defaulted on the registration.

Why do people have this idea that it is OK not to obey the law? Frequently they would be among the first to complain if people do it 'back home'! Many of them also seem to wonder why foreigners are unpopular in some areas.


----------



## Rabbitcat

Sorry I didn't mean to come across as a lawbreaker type. I am not au fait at all with the whys and wherefores as regards registering. I have yet to get an answer as what will happen to me if I didn't register as a resident for my 5 month holiday. I have asked on here and other forums and been told basically theres no comeback!!!

I will of course comply with the law - all be it for 8 weeks. I intend to be law biding, am just trying to ascertain exactly what the situation is


----------



## xabiaxica

Rabbitcat said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to come across as a lawbreaker type. I am not au fait at all with the whys and wherefores as regards registering. I have yet to get an answer as what will happen to me if I didn't register as a resident for my 5 month holiday. I have asked on here and other forums and been told basically theres no comeback!!!
> 
> I will of course comply with the law - all be it for 8 weeks. I intend to be law biding, am just trying to ascertain exactly what the situation is


100s if not 1000s come for a long holiday every year for more than 3 months - many many don't bother to register & have no problems at all

however - as you are aware, Spain expects you to do so, & if you were to come to the notice of the authorities for any reason, they would give you a week or so in which to get your papers in order ( judging by what has been happening in my town to those who genuinely live here full time & hadn't registered) 

& that would more than likely be the end of it - although there is a possibility of being fined

remember that once registered, you need to unregister again before you leave


----------



## Rabbitcat

Thanks Xabia.

I lived for a while in a non EU country where consequences for non registration as a resident meant compulsory expulsion, fines etc so I am just trying to gauge things for Spain.

Apologies again to anyone who thought I was suggesting flaunting the law


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Rabbitcat said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to come across as a lawbreaker type. I am not au fait at all with the whys and wherefores as regards registering. I have yet to get an answer as what will happen to me if I didn't register as a resident for my 5 month holiday. I have asked on here and other forums and been told basically theres no comeback!!!
> 
> I will of course comply with the law - all be it for 8 weeks. I intend to be law biding, am just trying to ascertain exactly what the situation is


The general consensus is that your infraction would only come to light if you were involved in a "situation". If the situation is not one where you are involved in some kind of offence (ie you are involved in an accident that you didn't provoke or you are robbed) then probably nothing will happen. If however, you are involved in some kind of crime (Anything from speeding to drug smuggling) this could be a useful way of bringing you in.

*This is the official comeback. *
Depending on the circumstances, not having your papers in order can be
Una Infracción leve = fine up to 500€
OR Infracción grave = fine of 501€ to 10.000€
From the Ministry of the Interior's web
http://www.interior.gob.es/web/serv...eria/regimen-general/infracciones-y-sanciones


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## Rabbitcat

xabiachica; said:


> remember that once registered, you need to unregister again before you leave



So just to be clear- for my 5 months hols each year I need to register, then de register before I go home and then repeat the process each season?


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## xabiaxica

Rabbitcat said:


> So just to be clear- for my 5 months hols each year I need to register, then de register before I go home and then repeat the process each season?


yes - if you don't de-register, and computers start talking to each each other, hacienda might decide that you are tax resident in Spain - & that you should be on the padrón


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## Rabbitcat

Thanks for that. I will have to register and de register every year.


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## snikpoh

Rabbitcat said:


> Thanks for that. I will have to register and de register every year.


Really stupid as it may sound, this is the mess caused by different countries in the EU having different rules! 


Bl**dy stupid.


----------



## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> Really stupid as it may sound, this is the mess caused by different countries in the EU having different rules!
> 
> 
> Bl**dy stupid.


actually it's the same in France & Italy for instance - & probably others - they're just the ones I know about


----------



## Rabbitcat

Sorry to keep banging on about this same topic but just want to make sure I understand the requirements 

As regards the health insurance needed for residency for my 5 month holiday_will my long term trav ins suffice ?

Thanks


----------



## xabiaxica

Rabbitcat said:


> Sorry to keep banging on about this same topic but just want to make sure I understand the requirements
> 
> As regards the health insurance needed for residency for my 5 month holiday_will my long term trav ins suffice ?
> 
> Thanks


unfortunately not - you need to contract full health insurance in Spain


----------



## Rabbitcat

Beginning to see why many don't bother with residency

How in gods name can one take out a full Spanish health policy for a 5 months holiday?

I mean the whole point of long stay travel ins is to fully cover you for the full term of our long holiday

. Looks like I may be forced by Spanish red tape to be a criminal after all!!!!


----------



## Williams2

Rabbitcat said:


> Just reading through this thread re residency/ using UK car in Spain
> 
> Seems to me that if I was to go over there for 5 month hols at a time I would be better NOT taking residency as being non resident allows me up to 6 months at a time using my Uk car in Spain.
> 
> The gist of the thread seems to imply for those extra 8 weeks I will be staying beyond the 90 days its not worth bothering taking residency???


Tell me what's the position for a Disc Jockey living & working on a Pirate Radio Station,
moored in International Waters, just off the Spanish coast be - with regard to
tax, residency, etc ?


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## Rabbitcat

Lol love it Williams

But getting back to my query I am somewhat intrigued as how one staying for 5 months would get health ins suitable for residency.

I assume a local ins agent could give a quote but as its only needed for 5 months it all seems a bit bizarre!!!!


----------



## snikpoh

Rabbitcat said:


> Lol love it Williams
> 
> But getting back to my query I am somewhat intrigued as how one staying for 5 months would get health ins suitable for residency.
> 
> I assume a local ins agent could give a quote but as its only needed for 5 months it all seems a bit bizarre!!!!


.. and that's really my point.

You'd have to pay for an annual policy just for the 5 months that you actually need it - you can't get a rebate if you cancel early!


Best solution is to leave Spain on a day trip somewhere. By doing that, the 90-day clock starts ticking again. (Obviously keep tickets etc. as proof.) Just don't spend more than 182 days in Spain in a calendar year.




Despite it being the case in other countries, I think it's worse than bl**dy stupid!


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## Rabbitcat

Very true

That's why I find it bizarre that the full long stay ins I would have which covers me for every eventuality for my full 5 month stay in Spain- isn't acceptable!!!!


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## Rabbitcat

I read on another forum that 10s of 1000s ex pats winter in Spain every year- exceeding the 90 day limit without registering as residents and then de registering before they go home

Whilst that's obviously illegal is it fair to say the rule is not being rigorously enforced???

I just feel frustrated that it appears easier to flout the rule than to comply in respect of my 5 month holiday scenario!!


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## tommy.irene

Rabbitcat said:


> I read on another forum that 10s of 1000s ex pats winter in Spain every year- exceeding the 90 day limit without registering as residents and then de registering before they go home
> 
> Whilst that's obviously illegal is it fair to say the rule is not being rigorously enforced???
> 
> I just feel frustrated that it appears easier to flout the rule than to comply in respect of my 5 month holiday scenario!!


There is over 3million who come to stay for 6 months and none know were the Town Hall is.. to them this is just for holidays every year..


----------



## Rabbitcat

Thanks Tommy

Unless there's a way to sort the nonsense of 5 month healthcare I will be asking it 3, 000, 001!!!!!


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## Pesky Wesky

Rabbitcat said:


> I read on another forum that 10s of 1000s ex pats winter in Spain every year- exceeding the 90 day limit without registering as residents and then de registering before they go home
> 
> Whilst that's obviously illegal is it fair to say the rule is not being rigorously enforced???
> 
> I just feel frustrated that it appears easier to flout the rule than to comply in respect of my 5 month holiday scenario!!


I think you've been given all the information you could ever need on the official stance, including my post (#67) which tells you about the official fines that could be enforced.
As this is an open forum few people are going to tell you to flout the law. That's something you're going to have to make your own mind up about, but are there people who don't do what they are supposed to do? Without a doubt.


----------



## tommy.irene

Rabbitcat said:


> Thanks Tommy
> 
> Unless there's a way to sort the nonsense of 5 month healthcare I will be asking it 3, 000, 001!!!!!


Normal price here €500 all in.. for 1 bedroom apartment and all year sunshine.. if you count all the Islands we have 10 million here from Iceland ,,Norway ,,Germany and Holland ..ext..


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## tommy.irene

Try Age Concern or Post Office for Holiday insurance..


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## Rabbitcat

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think you've been given all the information you could ever need on the official stance, including my post (#67) which tells you about the official fines that could be enforced.
> As this is an open forum few people are going to tell you to flout the law. That's something you're going to have to make your own mind up about, but are there people who don't do what they are supposed to do? Without a doubt.




Thanks Pesky.

Yip need to make up own mind. It was just that I previously lived in Turkey where disobeying residency meant immediate arrest at airport, fine plus ban so testing the waters so to speak re various outcomes in Spain.

Bottom line is I will try my best to fully comply


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## Rabbitcat

tommy.irene said:


> Try Age Concern or Post Office for Holiday insurance..



Tommy health ins bought outside of Spain isn't acceptable for Residency


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## snikpoh

tommy.irene said:


> Try Age Concern or Post Office for Holiday insurance..


I think you've completely missed the point of this thread.


The OP *has *holiday insurance. However, because he will be here for 5 months or more, he will need to register as resident. To do that, he will need to prove sufficient income and health care provision. 

Travel insurance won't cut it!


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## tommy.irene

Rabbitcat said:


> Tommy health ins bought outside of Spain isn't acceptable for Residency


Most old age people that come here for 6 months have their health insurance.


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## xabiaxica

tommy.irene said:


> Most old age people that come here for 6 months have their health insurance.


here we go again.... that's because they don't register as resident...... which is illegal


& yes I KNOW many many do it, & I agree that it's rather ridiculous that you are supposed to keep registering & unregistering - but that doesn't stop it being illegal


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## tommy.irene

xabiachica said:


> here we go again.... that's because they don't register as resident...... which is illegal
> 
> 
> & yes I KNOW many many do it, & I agree that it's rather ridiculous that you are supposed to keep registering & unregistering - but that doesn't stop it being illegal


Your right ..but no one tells them to register

There is not even a sign at the Airport telling them anything...they just book some were to live for the winter and then get a flight..


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## xabiaxica

tommy.irene said:


> Your right ..but no one tells them to register
> 
> There is not even a sign at the Airport telling them anything...they just book some were to live for the winter and then get a flight..


why on earth would there be a sign at the airport?

it's up to them to find out what the legal requirements are


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## tommy.irene

xabiachica said:


> why on earth would there be a sign at the airport?
> 
> it's up to them to find out what the legal requirements are


Now you understand what im talking about ..these people only book a 6 months holiday and dont do any homework

They are only here for the sunshine..


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## xabiaxica

tommy.irene said:


> Now you understand what im talking about ..these people only book a 6 months holiday and dont do any homework
> 
> They are only here for the sunshine..


one day they'll be in for a shock then........

ignorance of the law is no defence - especially when the taxman is involved


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## tommy.irene

xabiachica said:


> one day they'll be in for a shock then........
> 
> ignorance of the law is no defence - especially when the taxman is involved


As i said ..he only has to fine one and the rest wont come back..


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## Rabbitcat

Let's cut to the chase- does anyone know of anyone taken to court and fined for staying a couple of months beyond the 90 days without registering for residence?


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## xabiaxica

Rabbitcat said:


> Let's cut to the chase- does anyone know of anyone taken to court and fined for staying a couple of months beyond the 90 days without registering for residence?


nope - but I do know people who have been given a week to get their paperwork in order or leave - they got their paperwork in order pdq



no idea what would have happened if they hadn't - but the Guardia did follow up & check


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## Rabbitcat

Thanks Xabia

That's that answered!!!

Lol, it just gets worse- been told it can take up to 8 weeks for de- register paperwork to churn through the system. Given that I am in effect only needing Residency for 8 weeks ( 5 month holiday, first 90 days ok) I will need to apply to be registered and de- registered at the same time!!!!

Still have not found solution to health ins either.

Will need to think outside the box.


thanks to everyone who responded, appreciate it.


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## xabiaxica

Rabbitcat said:


> Thanks Xabia
> 
> That's that answered!!!
> 
> Lol, it just gets worse- been told it can take up to 8 weeks for de- register paperwork to churn through the system. Given that I am in effect only needing Residency for 8 weeks ( 5 month holiday, first 90 days ok) I will need to apply to be registered and de- registered at the same time!!!!
> 
> Still have not found solution to health ins either.
> 
> Will need to think outside the box.
> 
> 
> thanks to everyone who responded, appreciate it.


health insurance would be the main issue

registering is on the spot so I don't know why deregistering would take so long though :confused2:


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## snikpoh

xabiachica said:


> health insurance would be the main issue
> 
> registering is on the spot so I don't know why deregistering would take so long though :confused2:


I really don't understand.

As I stated before, why not leave the country for a day (go to Gibralter, Africa or even back to UK) and then the clock starts ticking again.

No need to register and no need to worry about health insurance.


All quite legal!


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## Rabbitcat

Alicante to Gibraltar for the day...............


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