# confused spouse visa please help



## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i got 2 jobs ok..

one job i get paid every 4 weeks - higher earning job

other job i get paid every month regardless of weeks - less earning job

basically i need 6 months right...

however in one month I got 1500 that month... am I gonna fail the visa ?

do i do 1500 x 12 (months) = 18000 
and then add 1 extra month to the total for the 4 week paying job

if this is the case i get 19000 a year.. but if this isnt calculated this way i am basiically destroyed...


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

or is it calculated like this... higher paid job calculated as 13 months 
and then lower paid job calculated as 12 months as i am getting paid monthly basis.

and add those togeter... for final income ?

please i am so scared right now you cannot believe it .. please someone write back


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm not sure what the answer is on this basis i'm affraid but i'm sure Joppa or someone will be able to clarify, however - can you not supply 12 months payslips showing earning of over 18600, and apply under category B? 

This was all that matters is total earnings, and not earning in any one particular month. 

Good luck.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> i got 2 jobs ok..
> 
> one job i get paid every 4 weeks - higher earning job
> 
> ...


As stated, you have to work out your total income over the past 12 months and make sure you have earned £18,600. You can't do it on the basis of employment over 6 months as only work with one employer can be counted. If you haven't been in work for 12 months, you have to wait until you have, or have earned the required amount.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

Joppa said:


> As stated, you have to work out your total income over the past 12 months and make sure you have earned £18,600. You can't do it on the basis of employment over 6 months as only work with one employer can be counted. If you haven't been in work for 12 months, you have to wait until you have, or have earned the required amount.



i am gonna apply in cat a. it dont state u have to be in work for 12 months just says you need 6 month payslips and the lowest will be averaged out?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> i am gonna apply in cat a. it dont state u have to be in work for 12 months just says you need 6 month payslips and the lowest will be averaged out?


But only with one employer. I take it you work for two different bosses? If more than one employer (either concurrently or successively), you have to apply under category B.

_'Where the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant (if they are in the UK with permission to work) is in salaried employment at the point of application and *has been with the same employer for at least the last 6 months*, the applicant can count the gross annual salary (at its lowest level in those 6 months) towards the financial requirement.'_

So if you work for two employers, only one of your jobs can count towards the requirement on the basis of 6-month employment.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

Joppa said:


> But only with one employer. I take it you work for two different bosses? If more than one employer (either concurrently or successively), you have to apply under category B.
> 
> _'Where the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant (if they are in the UK with permission to work) is in salaried employment at the point of application and *has been with the same employer for at least the last 6 months*, the applicant can count the gross annual salary (at its lowest level in those 6 months) towards the financial requirement.'_
> 
> So if you work for two employers, only one of your jobs can count towards the requirement on the basis of 6-month employment.



It doesnt say only 1 employer does it? plus i have been 6 months with new job and the old job for over 5 years. 

can you please quote that if you have 2 jobs you need to apply on cat b.

I am working in two jobs right now, i didnt leave any employer.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

5.3.1 Category A: salaried employment for the last 6 months
Where the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant (if they are in the UK with permission to work) is in salaried employment at the point of application and has been with the same employer for at least the last 6 months, the applicant can count the gross annual salary (at its lowest level in those 6 months) towards the financial requirement.
If necessary to meet the level of the financial requirement applicable to the application, the applicant can add to this:
•
The gross amount of any specified non-employment income received by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly in the 12 months prior to the
8
application, provided they continue to own the relevant asset (e.g. property, shares) at the date of application;
•
An amount based on the cash savings above £16,000 held by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly for at least the 6 months prior to the application and under their control. At the entry clearance/initial leave to remain stage and the further leave stage, the amount above £16,000 must be divided by 2.5 (to reflect the 2.5 year or 30-month period before the applicant will have to make a further application) to give the amount which can be added to income. At the indefinite leave to remain stage, the whole of the amount above £16,000 can be added to income; and/or
•
The gross annual income received by the applicant’s partner or the applicant from any State (UK or foreign) or private pension.
Where the applicant’s partner is returning with the applicant to the UK to work
In addition, where the applicant’s partner is returning with the applicant to the UK to work, the partner must have confirmed salaried employment to return to in the UK (starting within 3 months of their return). This must have an annual starting salary sufficient to meet the financial requirement applicable to the application, alone or in combination with any or all of the items in 5.3.1.
5.3.2 Category B: salaried employment for less than the last 6 months
Under Category B, the financial requirement must be evidenced in two parts.
First, where the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant (if they are in the UK with permission to work) is in salaried employment at the date of application and has been with the same employer for less than the last 6 months, the applicant can count the gross annual salary at the date of application towards the financial requirement.
If necessary to meet the level of the financial requirement applicable to the application, the applicant can add to this:
•
The gross amount of any specified non-employment income received by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly in the 12 months prior to the application, provided they continue to own the relevant asset (e.g. property, interest from shares) at the date of application;
•
An amount based on the cash savings above £16,000 held by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly for at least the 6 months prior to the application and under their control. At the entry clearance/initial leave to remain stage and the further leave stage, the amount above £16,000 must be divided by 2.5 (to reflect the 2.5 year or 30-month period before the applicant will have to make a further application) to give the amount which can be added to income. At the indefinite leave to remain stage, the whole of the amount above £16,000 can be added to income; and/or
9
•
The gross annual income from any State (UK or foreign) or private pension received by the applicant’s partner or the applicant.
Second, the couple must in addition have received in the 12 months prior to the application the level of income required to meet the financial requirement applicable to it, based on:
•
The gross salaried employment income of the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant (if they are in the UK with permission to work);
•
The gross amount of any specified non-employment income received by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly;
•
The gross amount of any State (UK or foreign) or private pension received by the applicant’s partner or the applicant; and/or
•
The gross amount of any UK Maternity Allowance, Bereavement Allowance, Bereavement Payment and Widowed Parent’s Allowance received by the applicant’s partner or the applicant.
Where the applicant’s partner is returning with the applicant to the UK to work..................................................




Nowhere in the guidance notes that only 1 employer is required for cat A.. and 2 employers in cat b.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The wording can be clearer, but what the UKBA means by Category A is someone who has one job working for one employer earning the required amount. If you have more than one jobs, or if there has been a change of employer if you only have one job, then only one employment counts during the past 6 months. This is to prevent someone getting a lot of casual jobs in a short space of time and making up the required minimum, without the prospect of continuing employment or steady income over the medium term. 

If you look at form FLR(M), their intention is quite clear. Under salaried employment in section 7.3A, it only mentions one job title, one employment etc, and there is no scope for adding your second job, except under Category B. See (iv). 

If you disgree, just apply under Category A and I'll be surprised if they don't turn down your application.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

can anyone else confirm that the information given by Joppa is correct. 

thanks


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

axl365 said:


> can anyone else confirm that the information given by Joppa is correct.
> 
> thanks


I can't confirm what Joppa says. I also know that many people on this board have Joppa to thank for clarifying some of the more obscure points that we all deal with during the immigration process. I don't think I've ever seen a message saying Joppa gave someone the wrong advice.

I don't want to know why Joppa knows as much as he does, but I'm glad he seems to have an awful lot of information that those of us struggling through the process don't seem to have easily. Nobody is that good at bookmarking information unless they use it a lot.

M


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

maybe he is immigration officer?


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

axl365 said:


> maybe he is immigration officer?


Like I said I don't know why, I suspect various options, but I'm not going to ask and he probably wouldn't answer.

M


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

my mental health is in decline because of this .. abysmal..


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

If they don't give me the visa I will leave this country. For good.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi axl365

The wording for both Category A and B is quite frankly obscure and as such it's very hard for us to say with absolute certainty how the rules will be applied because we haven't witnessed anyone putting the flexibility of these new rules to the test.

One _could_ argue that "the same TWO employers for 6 months" means that you have still been in salaried employment with the same employer(s), meeting the requirement. However, the wording is 'employer' rather than employers and, as Joppa states, the application form does not allow for multiple employers (probably the biggest clue to the intention of Category A), so the likelihood of UKBA accepting multiple jobs as meeting Category A looks to be unlikely.

The wording for Category B is equally as bad. Category B is "in salaried employment for less than 6 months..." (with the intention of counting prior employment as part of the overall £18,600 a year). This does not appear to cover concurrent employers, nor does it appear to cover people who have not changed employers at all, but whose pay is not always £1,550 a month (which also fails Category A). However, proving that the sponsor can sustain £18,600 over 12 months is most likely the overall goal of Category B so it is a safer guess. We have some applicants about to test this and hopefully they will be successful. Then we'll know a little more about how the wording of Category B applies.

Category A possibly also needs to be 'tested', but unlike Category B I really don't recommend it as it will likely fail. Category A seems to be a bit of a 'fast-track' route for people already in a higher-paying, dependable job. UKBA can more safely assume that the sponsor will, over the course of a year, still make the required £18,600 based on the proof of their first 6 months. As Joppa stated, there is a good chance that they will view people in two or more jobs as possibly trying to 'survive the application' with no intention of keeping those jobs after the 6 months is passed and the application is done and gone.

The wording does badly need to be tightened up. Hopefully, it will be after a period of time when UKBA encounters these issues themselves. Until then, it is better to 'play safe' and not risk losing your money or incurring your first visa refusal (which can cause problems in later applications). I know this isn't the answer you were hoping for, but none of us wants to see you fail this.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

Thank you for your help.. i feel like a hamster.. seriosuly insignificant too


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> Hi axl365
> 
> The wording for both Category A and B is quite frankly obscure and as such it's very hard for us to say with absolute certainty how the rules will be applied because we haven't witnessed anyone putting the flexibility of these new rules to the test.
> 
> ...


Yes there are ambiguities in both Cat A and Cat B, but if you look at the chart on page 22 of FM1.7 Annex A, then it seems clear what the intentions of those rules are. Option A clearly states 'Annual salary level, taken from 6 months with the same employer (singular), prior to point of application', and Option B: 'Total salaried income from employment (doesn't specify the number of employers or jobs) in the 12 months prior to point of application'.

We do need further clarifications and case studies.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

Hello,

thank you for giving your knowledge and sharing it here.

On page 22 on the chart it says.

Option A. "Annual salary level, taken from 6 months from the same employer.

option B. "Total sallierd income from employment in the 12 months prior to POA"



So option A is for people who stick to the same employer.

Option B is for people who have changed jobs, and all the earnings will be calculated.


However it is still not clear for people who have been with the same employ*ers*.

Under Option A, if I make myself clear and provide explanation that I have been with the same employers. I think they may give me a chance, but I don't really know.

What do you guys think?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

You're right; it isn't all that clear, but based on the layout of the application form, I would say Category B is the best fit for your situation. Nobody has tested Category A with multiple employers and the form doesn't allow for it either, so it is safer to assume that UKBA intends this for ONE employer only. 

If you had nothing to lose, it would be different, but not only is a failed application non-refundable (and visas are horrible prices), _it also gives you a history of visa refusal_, which could then complicate or delay any future application. I daresay someone at sometime will inadvertently put this category to the test and then we'll know for sure, but no-one has yet. I fear if you did, you would be refused under Category A and so it would be wrong for anyone to say "go for it".


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Is there any reason why you can't wait further 6 months? Better to be patient than apply now and be refused?


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Is there any reason why you can't wait further 6 months? Better to be patient than apply now and be refused?



Its because we are married. And being apart for 4-5 years is not good for any relationship.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> Its because we are married. And being apart for 4-5 years is not good for any relationship.


I know but you have to abide by the rules, and 6-month separation is better than even longer time apart after a refusal?


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## shankal (Oct 3, 2012)

hi, i'm in the same situation as axl365, i work full time the same employer for two years and i get my salary every four weeks and my last p60 is 17971, im starting new job soon earning £60 a week at least, but i'm still worrying,,
waitting for 6 months or 12 months 
plz help


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

shankal said:


> hi, i'm in the same situation as axl365, i work full time the same employer for two years and i get my salary every four weeks and my last p60 is 17971, im starting new job soon earning £60 a week at least, but i'm still worrying,,
> waitting for 6 months or 12 months.


Are you starting a second job in addition? Then you can apply as soon as you have earned £18,600 in total during the past 12 months. If your first job continues to pay £17,971, you can apply when you have earned £629 from your second, which will be in about 11 weeks.


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## shankal (Oct 3, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Are you starting a second job in addition? Then you can apply as soon as you have earned £18,600 in total during the past 12 months. If your first job continues to pay £17,971, you can apply when you have earned £629 from your second, which will be in about 11 weeks.


omg Joppaa,, is that how it works? so i don't have wait for 6 months or 12 months? cause i got confused by Option B.
could you please explain the reasons why?. cause i'm so tired reading the rules and hardly understand what they mean, can't wait to hear from u,
yes i'm still earning £17,971 a year, thank you very much


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

shankal said:


> omg Joppaa,, is that how it works? so i don't have wait for 6 months or 12 months? cause i got confused by Cb
> could you please explain the reasons why?. cause i'm so tired reading the rules and hardly understand what they mean, can't wait to hear from u,
> yes i'm still earning £17,971 a year, thank you very much


Since you have been in work more than a year, you can take a combined salary from the previous 12 months, and provided it comes to at least £18,600, you meet the requirement. This is Category/Option B of the new rules. You just have to enclose employment details for both jobs, which are signed contract, employer's letter detailing your job, pay slips, 12-month worth of bank statement, plus latest P60. And both jobs must still be ongoing when your partner applies.


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## blibli46 (May 28, 2012)

Axl365, Shankal, we are in the same boat. I applied on 3 Oct 12. It might take 2 months for the result, but i expect longer bcos i have 2 kids with me. Unfortunately I didnt do it Joppa's way. Let us see what the outcome, I will keep you update (if you are patient enough to hold your applications  )


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

wait.. i have already been working for over 5 years now.. and i took another job in march/april.. because my studies ended.. 

so i get around 19k.. can i apply now rather than waiting 6 months?

new rules started? so joppa can i apply? or do i have to wait 12 months ?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> wait.. i have already been working for over 5 years now.. and i took another job in march/april.. because my studies ended..
> 
> so i get around 19k.. can i apply now rather than waiting 6 months?
> 
> new rules started? so joppa can i apply? or do i have to wait 12 months ?


Haven't reviewed your earlier posts, but if in the last 12 months you have earned £18,600 gross, through one or more jobs, you can apply now.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i have applied lets see what happens now


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

which cat is it for 2 jobs?


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## lidi (Nov 16, 2012)

axl my husband has same case of u.it is really complicated for those who work for 2 jobs at the same time. i had a look on category b but it only shows details about any previous job it does not mention 2 current jobs.i'm really confused and very sad coz nobody tested to apply under this case we ve so that we know at least if they accept to combine btw 2 jobs.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

maybe its cat a ?


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## lidi (Nov 16, 2012)

ve u applied or not yet axl?


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

applied just gonna take vaf4a form.. to the visa center.

but unclear which route to tick.. A or B. ?


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## lidi (Nov 16, 2012)

axl365 said:


> applied just gonna take vaf4a form.. to the visa center.
> 
> but unclear which route to tick.. A or B. ?


i think betterto apply under categody B as joppa adiviced u at least in cat B there r options for multiple jobs.this wot me n myhusband will do also.but let me ask u how many payslips in ur additiona job u will afford?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

axl365 said:


> applied just gonna take vaf4a form.. to the visa center.
> 
> but unclear which route to tick.. A or B. ?


If you have 6 months of payslips showing you earned £1,550 or more each month working for ONE employer, tick Category A. 

If you held more than one job or some payslips are less than £1,550, but over a year you still earned £18,600 or more, tick Category B.


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## lidi (Nov 16, 2012)

farapart2 plz if u know anyone who applied with same case of us and he got visa tell us thanks


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

can we just tick both


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> can we just tick both


No. You have to choose one as they have different criteria.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

And it should be easy to determine which to tick based on: 

*Do you hold 6 months of payslips at £1,550 or more a month from ONE employer? Yes or no?*

If yes, tick Category A. There is no other valid option for Category A, so you can only use this category if the entirety of the above statement applies to you.



*If NO, did you earn £18,600 or more over the last 12 months with any number of employers (even if some months were missed)? Yes or no?*

If yes, tick Category B.

_(if you answered 'no' to both, you can't apply under either category)_


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i have been employed part time on one job for over 5 years

and now the new job i started this year and its been around 7 months..


also on a side note the form it says you can combine more than 1 catagory..


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

You can't combine A and B. This is because they're largely the same type of category (salaried employment) except one lets you apply after 6 months if your situation is simple (you earnt £1,550 every month for 6 months with one employer), or your situation is less simple: you didn't earn £1,550 every month, but you still earnt £18,600 or more in 12 months, or you changed employers within the last 6 months (both these would be Category B).

What is meant by combining categories is that you might (for example) have been self-employed for part of the year, but are now in salaried employment. If you still had a taxable income of £18,600 or more from both, you could apply under those categories combined, and provide the documentary evidence to prove both. You can sometimes combine savings with salary too.

If you have been in your job for 7 months, you fit under Category A provided you earnt £1,550 or more for the last 6 of those months (before tax).


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

I will tick Cat A.

And then provide a letter explaining my financial situation. I earn just under 20k for both jobs

would this be ok..


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

axl365 said:


> I will tick Cat A.
> 
> And then provide a letter explaining my financial situation. I earn just under 20k for both jobs
> 
> would this be ok..


It sounds fine. 

If you have 6 months of pay from your current employer - and you earned at least £1,550 in every one of those months, Category A is perfect for you. You don't need to mention your previous employment at all. Category A is very simple and you only need to provide 6 months evidence (for pay slips and bank statements).

If your earnings are from more than one employer _during the last 6 months_, or some months in the last 6 months were less than £1,550, use Category B instead. For Category B, you need to provide 12 months of bank statements and all pay slips you received over that same period.

I know it's confusing, but I hope that helps.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

ok so today i got biometrics taken and all documents taken from me.

but in the visa center the person said i have one document missing

Undertaking Form SU07

i told the person that I dont have it and never heard of it, but they said none of my business you dont have the document..

and they made my wife sign a long list of paper, with all the required documents, and the Undertaking Form SU07 was written as not given.

what should i do please help


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> ok so today i got biometrics taken and all documents taken from me.
> 
> but in the visa center the person said i have one document missing
> 
> ...


In which country are you applying? The staff at commercial visa centres often don't know the rules. SU07 is only used for sponsoring extended family members (e.g. parents, grandparents, children over 18, not spouse).


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## desmortess (Nov 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> can anyone else confirm that the information given by Joppa is correct.
> 
> thanks


Hey axl

If Joppa says then it is right as I have read so many posts and Joppa is the person who answers most of them correctly.

So I believe you trust him in this or if you still in doubt as professional help


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

Joppa said:


> In which country are you applying? The staff at commercial visa centres often don't know the rules. SU07 is only used for sponsoring extended family members (e.g. parents, grandparents, children over 18, not spouse).


oh im soo glad, but why did she tick the form and wrote not recieved ..?

its in turkey gaziantep

the person was also extremely rude.. we felt very bad. can we complain ? i think they are only data collectors and not officers who make decisions


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> oh im soo glad, but why did she tick the form and wrote not recieved ..?


Perhaps because it's there? Not realising not every application needs it.



> its in turkey gaziantep


Yes, it's run by WorldBridge. Your application is considered and processed by UKBA in Istanbul, and WorldBridge staff have nothing to do with it.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i thought it went to ankara and not istanbul?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> i thought it went to ankara and not istanbul?


_Visa applications processed in Istanbul from within Turkey are received from visa application centres in Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Bursa and Gaziantepe; these are run by a commercial partner – Worldbridge Services. Initially, applicants submit an online application and then attend a visa application centre to provide supporting documentation and undergo biometric processing to enable
identity checks. *The documents are subsequently forwarded to Istanbul for a decision in regard to the application made*._

Until two years ago, Ankara office dealt with diplomatic visa applications, but now all visa work is done only in Istanbul. As regional visa centre, it deals with applications from a number of nearby countries including Israel, Georgia and Kazakhstan.


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