# RRV Rejection



## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

Dear All,
I'm planning to apply for RRV, a friend of mine told me that if they reject the RRV then PR will be automatically cancelled if they reject the RRV.

could you please advise if this is true?
Travelling overseas as a permanent resident (homeaffairs.gov.au) 

please check below
f you wish to return to Australia as a permanent resident from any overseas travel, you may need to apply for and be granted a Resident Return visa (subclass 155 or subclass 157) if:

the travel facility on your permanent visa has either already expired or will expire while you are outside Australia
you are a former Australian permanent resident whose last permanent visa was not cancelled
you are a former Australian citizen who lost or renounced your citizenship.
If you intend to arrive in Australia without a valid visa, your entry will be denied (unless you are an Australian citizen).
*Your permanent resident status will only be reinstated if your application for a Resident Return visa is granted. If your Resident Return visa application is refused, you may have to consider applying again for another permanent visa, such as a Former Resident visa, a family visa or a skilled visa. *You will be provided with information regarding your eligibility for any merits review processes.


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

Of course this is correct. You are citing the Department website.

If you apply for a RRV outside Australia and it is refused then the Department is of the opinion that you have abandoned your permanent residency.
If you apply for a RRV inside Australia and it is refused it generally means that you have been deemed not to meet the character test or other requirements and could therefore be deported as no longer lawfully in the country.
In both cases you have the right to both a review of the decision or ultimately to appeal the decision to the AAT.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

Travel facility means:
You have valid PR. OR
Your PR arrive no later date is passed and then you applied and got RRV. OR
You applied RRV before PR expiry date and RRV rejected before PR expiry date, however PR remains valid till Arrive No Later Than date. NOTE: RRV and PR are two separate visas and PR is not impacted at all by RRV dates. YOUR PR ARRIVE NO LATER DATE REMAINS VALID TILL THAT DATE, TECHNICALLY IF YOUR RRV ARRIVE NO LATER DATE IS LET SAY MARCH 2022 AND PR ARRIVE NO LATER DATE IS JAN 2022, STILL YOUR PR VISA IS VALID BUT YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL PRIVELAGE OF RRV.
SUMMARY:
Rejection of RRV is nothing to do with the PR which is already issued, however, grant of RRV means that now your travel facility is extended.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

Read this word by word very carefully what it says:

the travel facility on your permanent visa has either already expired or will expire while you are outside Australia
This means, if your PR travel facility has already expired or you will not be able to return to Australia before its expiry.....YOUR PR REMAINS VALID BY ALL MEANS TILL ARRIVE NO LATER THAN DATE.


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## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

Moulard said:


> Of course this is correct. You are citing the Department website.
> 
> If you apply for a RRV outside Australia and it is refused then the Department is of the opinion that you have abandoned your permanent residency.
> If you apply for a RRV inside Australia and it is refused it generally means that you have been deemed not to meet the character test or other requirements and could therefore be deported as no longer lawfully in the country.
> In both cases you have the right to both a review of the decision or ultimately to appeal the decision to the AAT.


hank you for your support but am really confused 
the case is as following
i've spent 2 weeks for the last 5 years inside Australia
MY PR will expire by Oct 2021
am thinking to apply now for RRV to extend the pr for one year as with travel restriction it's not easy to reach Australia

my questions:
1)so worst case scenario if my RRV was rejected in Aug while i have my PR valid until october i.e. 2 months remaining , will the RRV rejection cancel my PR as mentioned in the link i shared above?


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## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

qamar_g said:


> s, if your PR travel facility has already expired or you will not be able to return to Australia before its expiry...


yes very clear but below statement confusing me as it's stating that if RRV rejected i will lose PR?
*Your permanent resident status will only be reinstated if your application for a Resident Return visa is granted. If your Resident Return visa application is refused, you may have to consider applying again for another permanent visa, such as*


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

Given you haven't met the 2 year residence requirement and probably cannot prove substantial ties of benefit to Australia at best I would expect you would only receive a 3 month RRV (subclass 157)


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## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

Moulard said:


> Given you haven't met the 2 year residence requirement and probably cannot prove substantial ties of benefit to Australia at best I would expect you would only receive a 3 month RRV (subclass 157)


my question if RRV rejected, will this cancel the PR which still valid for few months?


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

zanzoun said:


> my question if RRV rejected, will this cancel the PR which still valid for few months?


Short answer - YES, it will cancel out your PR status if RRV is refused.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> Short answer - YES, it will cancel out your PR status if RRV is refused.


Then perhaps you are not very clear about concept of RRV and power of PR.
PR can not be cancelled. Its travel facility shall remain valid till the date which is mentioned on PR grant.....no matter how many different visas you get or get rejected.
Please do not comment something which you are not clear about. others might get confused after reading such statements


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

Moulard said:


> Given you haven't met the 2 year residence requirement and probably cannot prove substantial ties of benefit to Australia at best I would expect you would only receive a 3 month RRV (subclass 157)


now due to covid, if RRV is granted it is for 1 year in most of cases. However, if the reason for not moving to Australia shall not be justified, RRV shall be refused straight away.


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

qamar_g said:


> now due to covid, if RRV is granted it is for 1 year in most of cases. However, if the reason for not moving to Australia shall not be justified, RRV shall be refused straight away.


No such thing. RRV criteria criteria still remains the same. Many people got 3 month RRV grant and few refusals in recent months.


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## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

mustafa01 said:


> Short answer - YES, it will cancel out your PR status if RRV is refused.


Dear Mostfa,
i'm really stressed as am getting different answers. do you have solid proof?


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

zanzoun said:


> 1)so worst case scenario if my RRV was rejected in Aug while i have my PR valid until october i.e. 2 months remaining , will the RRV rejection cancel my PR as mentioned in the link i shared above?


The travel facility attached to your PR lasts for 5 years whether or not the RRV is granted.

_When you are granted a permanent visa, you are usually permitted a 5-year travel facility. This means you can leave and re-enter Australia as many times as you like in the 5 years from the date your permanent visa was granted, as long as your visa remains valid._

_After 5 years, your travel facility expires. You will need to apply for and be granted either:_

_a Resident Return visa - if you wish to re-enter Australia as a permanent resident _
_Australian citizenship - if you wish to travel as an Australian citizen._
_If you are not eligible for either of the above and wish to return to Australia as a permanent resident, you may have to apply again for a permanent visa, such as a Former Resident visa, a family visa or a skilled visa.

You can check when your travel facility ends in VEVO._
_





Travelling overseas as a permanent resident


Learn about the requirements you need to meet to return back to Australia for your overseas travel as a permanent resident.




immi.homeaffairs.gov.au




_
If your RRV application is refused, you could still come to Australia up until the time your PR's travel facility expires. That is October 2021, so you can travel to Australia up to that date, unaffected by a refusal of an RRV application.

A refusal of the RRV does not "shorten" your present PR - that will still be valid for travel until October, even if the RRV is refused.

If you are not granted an RRV and do not arrive by October 2021, your PR will be cancelled, effective from that date (October 2021), and after that date you will need a new visa to enter Australia.


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## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

Thank you Kaju very much, im so stressful as am getting different opinions from different people.

1) do you have any official evidence that can ease my tension 
2) is there any way to get offecial confirmation 

3) i checked VEVO, My travel Validity wiull expire by 20 Oct, if i get RRV by March and they grant for 3 months , this will make it valid until Aug only if they grant after 2 months from march , is there a chance they will do that or they will give one year nowadays coz of Covid 19?
i want to apply by may as current time lines is 3 months and i want to give my self some times.
Thank you very much


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

zanzoun said:


> Thank you Kaju very much, im so stressful as am getting different opinions from different people.
> 
> 1) do you have any official evidence that can ease my tension
> 
> ...


1) do you have any official evidence that can ease my tension

See the links above, that´s as official as it gets: _When you are granted a permanent visa, you are usually permitted a 5-year travel facility. This means you can leave and re-enter Australia as many times as you like in the 5 years from the date your permanent visa was granted, as long as your visa remains valid._

2) is there any way to get offecial confirmation

3) i checked VEVO, My travel Validity wiull expire by 20 Oct, if i get RRV by March and they grant for 3 months , this will make it valid until Aug only if they grant after 2 months from march , is there a chance they will do that or they will give one year nowadays coz of Covid 19?

If you mean March or May this year, it would be too early to apply - a 3 month RRV would give no benefit as you can arrive without it till October this year anyway.

When writing posts, try and think how you can explain your situation or what you want to achieve by providing full but clear information. (Such as, in this case, specifying whether you mean this year or next).

If you mean you want to apply in March next year, you can never count on the exact timing of the RRV grant or the length of the period of the RRV, or even be guaranteed to get it, although it's likely, especially given the Covid situation. So you have to plan for the worst. The duration, if granted, could be either, but given you have only spent a few days in Australia, expect 3 months.

Just remember that RRV's are most likely to be short term (3 months) and one-off grants if you haven't lived in Australia apart from a few days a few years ago. If you are granted an RRV and don't use it, it may not be easy to get another chance to be granted one again. Individual case officers can make different decisions, as they have that personal authority.


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## zanzoun (Jun 11, 2015)

Thank you kaju this was really helpful, i mean this march and im planning to request in march as to keep my self buffer if it rejected then i will have 2 months to travel and in this case i will try to sacrifice by selling one of my asset and travel in first class.
last questions, i have been informed by few cases that they are giving one year nowadays for Covid 19. is that true?

thank you very much


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

zanzoun said:


> Thank you kaju this was really helpful, i mean this march and im planning to request in march as to keep my self buffer if it rejected then i will have 2 months to travel and in this case i will try to sacrifice by selling one of my asset and travel in first class.
> last questions, i have been informed by few cases that they are giving one year nowadays for Covid 19. is that true?
> 
> thank you very much


mustafa01 may well have accurate information on this, I don't - see his last post.

I'm afraid I don't know the answer, but do remember that even if some people have got 12 month RRV´s with just a few days stay, that may not mean you will. Nothing lost by asking for one though.


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## dybydx (Jul 23, 2019)

This is just a silly question as I saw many cases like this. It is not necessary to answer.

I know some people experience different circumstances for moving when they got a PR which made them cannot move immediately at that time, and I totally understand.

But why many people still leave until last minutes?? 5 years is more than enough to deal with everything before moving.

PR, as the name itself, it is for people who live in Australia permanently, who use Australia as their residence.

If someone don’t usually live in Australia, why do they apply for a PR ?

I think there are plenty of offshore PR holders, and they obtained it from 189,190 visa. Don’t they think that this get rid of the places for someone who really need? Someone who currently work on temporary visa in Australia?


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

qamar_g said:


> Then perhaps you are not very clear about concept of RRV and power of PR.
> PR can not be cancelled. Its travel facility shall remain valid till the date which is mentioned on PR grant.....no matter how many different visas you get or get rejected.
> Please do not comment something which you are not clear about. others might get confused after reading such statements


Oh.. but perhaps maybe I do know a thing or two about PR more than you do. The below is staright from a typical PR grant letter.
"If you are granted another substantive visa your Skilled visa will cease and if applicable, may affect your eligibility for government benefits such as Centrelink or Medicare."










If you doubt this then you could refer to The Migration Act 1958 -Sub Division AG (82) which states "_A substantive visa held by a non‑citizen ceases to be in effect if another substantive visa (other than a special purpose visa) for the non‑citizen comes into effect._"

To the op @zanzoun , I do agree with @kaju that PR will remain in effect after RRV refusal if you still have travel validity remaining on it but it does not mean you will retain your Permanent status past the travel validity if you are still offshore.

With that being said, you still have a good chance to get at least 3 months RRV as you have spend a minimum of 1 day as PR in Australia.

So you should apply for RRV, worst case scenario you may get a 3 months validity and still then you could make a move here.


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## TheEndofDays (Apr 13, 2011)

RRV refusal means your “Must not arrive after date” won’t get extended beyond the initial 5 years you already have.

RRV approval will replace your current PR visa because in Australia you cannot have more than one substantive visa at the same time. When my RRV was approved a long time ago, my VEVO shows 155 visa.

So if you apply now for RRV and you got lucky that you get a 3-month RRV, then your must not arrive after will become shorter by 3 months (since you said your PR will expire October 2021).

To be honest your super best case scenario of 3 months extension is not that much so maybe you should start thinking about spending more effort and energy in packing up and moving here permanently ASAP and start searching for those scarce flights. 

I know it’s easier said than done but this is a sacrifice you will have to make just like many other offshore PR grantees. I don’t think that very hypothetical 3 month extension would make a difference about your “readiness” to move here.

To put things into perspective, just look at all the other threads in this forum with all those people even waiting endlessly to be invited and even offshore applications are only for the select few. If you delay this move any further many others will gladly take your place.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> Oh.. but perhaps maybe I do know a thing or two about PR more than you do. The below is staright from a typical PR grant letter.
> "If you are granted another substantive visa your Skilled visa will cease and if applicable, may affect your eligibility for government benefits such as Centrelink or Medicare."
> 
> 
> ...


Without jumping so muh


mustafa01 said:


> Oh.. but perhaps maybe I do know a thing or two about PR more than you do. The below is staright from a typical PR grant letter.
> "If you are granted another substantive visa your Skilled visa will cease and if applicable, may affect your eligibility for government benefits such as Centrelink or Medicare."
> 
> 
> ...


Before jumping so much, read what you commented first. Earlier you straight away mentioned thar PR shall be cancelled if RRV is refused. Now in this comment you are yourself negating your comment.
Does PR cancel after RRV refusal?
NO, PR remains.valid till the date on PR grant...this was.the question asked by the guy and you straightaway gave a wrong answer saying it shall be cancelled....so definitely I had to tell you, that perhaps you know nothing then.
Anyways now you have yourself admitted that PR remains valid till last day mentioned on grant even if RRV is refused so cheers


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

TheEndofDays said:


> RRV refusal means your “Must not arrive after date” won’t get extended beyond the initial 5 years you already have.
> 
> RRV approval will replace your current PR visa because in Australia you cannot have more than one substantive visa at the same time. When my RRV was approved a long time ago, my VEVO shows 155 visa.
> 
> ...


I am sure you are not stranded offshore, otherwise you would not have given the advice to pack up and move to Australia just like that..Do you know what is happening outside the borders with people stuck around the world and want to move?


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

qamar_g said:


> Without jumping so muh
> 
> Before jumping so much, read what you commented first. Earlier you straight away mentioned thar PR shall be cancelled if RRV is refused. Now in this comment you are yourself negating your comment.
> Does PR cancel after RRV refusal?
> ...


It is a no brainer here when you need to establish that op is not willing to move if RRV is refused.

However, you on the other hand quoted the below so I had to correct you. Someone could loose their preciously earnerd PR if they followed the inexact advice below. You know it is not hard to look up the law yourself


qamar_g said:


> PR can not be cancelled. Its travel facility shall remain valid till the date which is mentioned on PR grant.....no matter how many different visas you get or get rejected.


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## TheEndofDays (Apr 13, 2011)

qamar_g said:


> I am sure you are not stranded offshore, otherwise you would not have given the advice to pack up and move to Australia just like that..Do you know what is happening outside the borders with people stuck around the world and want to move?



So what advice are you going to give him? Apply for RRV, cross fingers and get another 3 months extension? Is that going to make it easier? What if he doesn’t get the RRV? What ties to Australia is he going to prove?

Do not even compare his situation with stranded Australian citizens (who have the right to go back to their country) and PRs who are already living in Australia. OP got his PR way before covid and decided to stretch it. October is not that far but would rather spend some effort looking for flights if he wants to keep his PR.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> It is a no brainer here when you need to establish that op is not willing to move if RRV is refused.
> 
> However, you on the other hand quoted the below so I had to correct you. Someone could loose their preciously earnerd PR if they followed the inexact advice below. You know it is not hard to look up the law yourself


Unfortunately your understanding of PR and RRV is extremely limited. do you really think that if I apply for RRV after 1 year of getting PR and if 3months RRV is granted , my PR validity shall be dropped down to 1 year 6 months only? its illogical right? it does not go that way. CO are much more intelligent to sort these things out.
Similarly your response that PR shall be cancelled in case of RRV refusal and a response that PR travel facility date shall be dropped if short term RRV is granted are also Illogical.
Edited to remove duplicated paragraphs and personal comments - moderator


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

TheEndofDays said:


> So what advice are you going to give him? Apply for RRV, cross fingers and get another 3 months extension? Is that going to make it easier? What if he doesn’t get the RRV? What ties to Australia is he going to prove?
> 
> Do not even compare his situation with stranded Australian citizens (who have the right to go back to their country) and PRs who are already living in Australia. OP got his PR way before covid and decided to stretch it. October is not that far but would rather spend some effort looking for flights if he wants to keep his PR.


I have been through all this so I know what I am saying and I know what I am advising. You have no idea what is happening outside the borders so can not understand the flight related issues. Applying RRV immediately now is the only solution....its refusal shall not have impact on PR, its grant can not be with last date before PR last date...it shall be win situation to apply now without any wait....if refused...buy first class ticket to travel which shall be very very very costly.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

TheEndofDays said:


> So what advice are you going to give him? Apply for RRV, cross fingers and get another 3 months extension? Is that going to make it easier? What if he doesn’t get the RRV? What ties to Australia is he going to prove?
> 
> Do not even compare his situation with stranded Australian citizens (who have the right to go back to their country) and PRs who are already living in Australia. OP got his PR way before covid and decided to stretch it. October is not that far but would rather spend some effort looking for flights if he wants to keep his PR.


One more thing....dont call stranded citizens only...there are many stranded permanent residents as well....as i said you perhaps have no idea what.is happening to stranded australians outside the borders


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

qamar_g said:


> Unfortunately your understanding of PR and RRV is extremely limited. do you really think that if I apply for RRV after 1 year of getting PR and if 3months RRV is granted , my PR validity shall be dropped down to 1 year 6 months only? its illogical right? it does not go that way. CO are much more intelligent to sort these things out.
> Similarly your response that PR shall be cancelled in case of RRV refusal and a response that PR travel facility date shall be dropped if short term RRV is granted are also Illogical.
> Edited to remove duplicated paragraphs and personal comments - moderator


Could not understand nearly half of what you meant but I think you got offended on a personal level (could get a hint from mod intervention).

Doesn't matter how smart or sympathetic the CO is, they still have to act within the law parameters which are laid out in force legislations- The Migration Act 1958. Again, just look up the law yourself and you shall know what you just said is ill-advised, illogical and inapt.

I am happy to discuss more only after you study The Migration Act 1958 throughly until then I rest my case.


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## qamar_g (Jun 20, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> Could not understand nearly half of what you meant but I think you got offended on a personal level (could get a hint from mod intervention).
> 
> Doesn't matter how smart or sympathetic the CO is, they still have to act within the law parameters which are laid out in force legislations- The Migration Act 1958. Again, just look up the law yourself and you shall know what you just said is ill-advised, illogical and inapt.
> 
> I am happy to discuss more only after you study The Migration Act 1958 throughly until then I rest my case.


if you could not understand what i wrote how would you even interpret whats written in law. As i mentioned earlier, you need to understand the whole concept in a better way.
At least now you will never say in future, to confuse anyone, that valid PR is cancelled if RRV is refused. 🤣🤣
<SNIP> knowing legislation and understanding are different things.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

OK, that's enough. Thread closed.


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