# Definition needed...



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Every now and again we see the phrase 'living the dream' popping up on this forum. It's usually employed in connection with some hopeful wanting to relocate to Spain to work as a brickie etc. with no qualifications and zero knowledge of the language (and often not too skilled at writing in their mother tongue...)
This phrase fascinates me. Why the Spanish dream? Why not the French or Belgian dream? Or the Welsh or Scottish dream, if it comes to that:confused
Few of these wanabees will ever earn enough money to buy themselves a villa in the sun with pool, Mercedes cabrio in the double garage etc. More likely they'll end up in some cramped noisy piso sharing a pool with a thousand holiday-makers every summer, wondering how they can survive until they have scraped up enough to buy a Ryanair ticket home. Their children will have struggled in Spanish schools and will find it difficult to fit in again once back in the UK.
So...what is lacking in some people's lives that they see life in Spain as some kind of 'dream'? 
And why Spain and not any other country?
Does a few months of sunshine really mean so much to them?
I can understand tired oldies like me coming here after decades of work in search of relaxation, warm climes for our poor old bones and so on. But most of us, if not wealthy, are able to live comfortably enough where we choose.
I've noticed that it's mainly people of working age with young families who go on about 'living the dream'.
So....what is it with people that makes them dissatisfied with their lives to have this 'dream' of a country that seems to me to exist just there....in their heads


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Every now and again we see the phrase 'living the dream' popping up on this forum. It's usually employed in connection with some hopeful wanting to relocate to Spain to work as a brickie etc. with no qualifications and zero knowledge of the language (and often not too skilled at writing in their mother tongue...)
> This phrase fascinates me. Why the Spanish dream? Why not the French or Belgian dream? Or the Welsh or Scottish dream, if it comes to that:confused
> Few of these wanabees will ever earn enough money to buy themselves a villa in the sun with pool, Mercedes cabrio in the double garage etc. More likely they'll end up in some cramped noisy piso sharing a pool with a thousand holiday-makers every summer, wondering how they can survive until they have scraped up enough to buy a Ryanair ticket home. Their children will have struggled in Spanish schools and will find it difficult to fit in again once back in the UK.
> So...what is lacking in some people's lives that they see life in Spain as some kind of 'dream'?
> ...



I reckon its all to do with those holidays!! 

Long, hot, lazy days spent on the beach, by the pool, palm trees, wandering thru pretty little white wash villages........ Everything seems so relaxing and easy, no stress...blah, blah. Wouldnt it be nice if we lived simply and had that sort of life everyday!???

Back in cold, rainy England, with its grey and wet weather, streets, politicians, nanny state, high taxes and pressure, having to live indoors most of the year. Those holidays become a dim and distant memory, but if we left all this and moved to Spain full time..............


Jo xxx


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Why would their children struggle with Spanish Schools? Unless they are above eigth years old or so, they will quickly adapt to the system and learn the language with amazing ease.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

For me it wasn't 'living the dream' but just living. I worked 12 hr days 7 days a week for 33 years. I've gone from buying anything I wanted , without having to think about it , to having to think about it all the time; but I'd prefer to be doing it this way than thinking it was a bonus getting home alive at the end of every day. It was like a war out there when I was working, if they weren't trying to kill you on site , then the motorists would be at it every day. The weather was another factor for me , far too cold even down in the south-west , plus I'd seen so many people dying in there 40's & 50's when I was young that I knew if I carried on I'd never see retirement. Far better to have a few years enjoying yourself without worrying than to die still wondering what it's all about. Personally I wouldn't do it with young children ( although we did toy with the idea back in '84 & I wish we had taken the opportunity ) unless I had work to go to , & definitely not in the present economic climate.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

People have been moving to a new country in search of a better life for centuries. These people aren´t so very different from those who emigrated to the Colonies - except the British Empire has been replaced by the European Union - the cliches have changed but the underlying reasons I suspect haven´t.

If you feel (rightly or wrongly) that your life would be better if you lived in another country you are especially vulnerable to the hype, promoted until recently by TV shows like Place in the Sun, and in earlier times by govermnent propaganda and the Assisted Package programmes.

Some people´s dreams come true, or if they are sensible, they modify their dreams to fit the reality. Others´turn into nightmares, but at least they´ve had a go.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Yes, I can understand all of the sentiments in the above posts but the main point of my question hasn't been addressed: Why Spain?
Jo comes nearest to providing the answer, I think. Package holidays and tv programmes....
As I said before on this forum, I'm here by pure chance....my son happened to have property here -so I could have ended up in France, Italy, Portugal, or even Canada where we had initially bought retirement property.
I love everything about Spain -the people, climate, lifestyle- but I can't see why any reasonably situated British person, especially those with not very high job expectations, should 'dream' of living in Spain and not, say, Germany.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dizzie Izzie said:


> Why would their children struggle with Spanish Schools? Unless they are above eigth years old or so, they will quickly adapt to the system and learn the language with amazing ease.



Some do, some don't. Some struggle to fit in with the youth culture and find it hard to make friends.
And some leave school to become part of the 40% plus of young people with scant hope of finding employment of any kind.
As a Headteacher, I've seen similar phenomena in the UK.
And it depends hugely on the educational attainment level and expectations of their families.


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> but I can't see why any reasonably situated British person, especially those with not very high job expectations, should 'dream' of living in Spain and not, say, Germany.


THE SUN!!!!!!!!!! And the myth that everybody speaks english as observed by anyone who spent 2 weeks in Benidorm once.

For us Germany is a no-go due to it's lack of warm salty water and pretty fish 
Ditto France, Canada etc etc.


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

Then came the language - really if you're going to bother learning another one, it may as well be the 3rd most spoken in the world. Italy is even dodgier law-wise than Spain, and I've never got THAT feeling from Portugal...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I can understand all of the sentiments in the above posts but the main point of my question hasn't been addressed: Why Spain?
> Jo comes nearest to providing the answer, I think. Package holidays and tv programmes....
> As I said before on this forum, I'm here by pure chance....my son happened to have property here -so I could have ended up in France, Italy, Portugal, or even Canada where we had initially bought retirement property.
> I love everything about Spain -the people, climate, lifestyle- but I can't see why any reasonably situated British person, especially those with not very high job expectations, should 'dream' of living in Spain and not, say, Germany.


Must be to do with the high number of British expats living in Spain. Everyone knows someone, even a relative, who has moved to or has lived in Spain or owns a holiday home. And there are several English enclaves where you can get by in English, eat English food and socialise with fellow Brits, which will be more difficult in Germany, France or Italy on a consistent basis. Plus cheap flights, memories of holidays in the sun and a lot of exposure on British TV, such as live Spanish football.


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi all newbie here, the main reason we bought our place in spain was my partner had been to the canary islands and majorca and ibizia , but never to mainland spain so we came over on an inspection trip in Feb 2000 to look, we stayed the first night in torrevijeca ( probably spelt it wrong ) but wanted somewhere more quieter and ended up at a place called Lake Negratin about half an hours journey from Baza Andalucia, there was this half built villa just walls and roof but the other half just said this is it , this is what I want. So next year October when I retire we will live there., can`t wait.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I can understand all of the sentiments in the above posts but the main point of my question hasn't been addressed: Why Spain?
> Jo comes nearest to providing the answer, I think. Package holidays and tv programmes....
> As I said before on this forum, I'm here by pure chance....*my son happened to have property here *-so I could have ended up in France, Italy, Portugal, or even Canada where we had initially bought retirement property.
> I love everything about Spain -the people, climate, lifestyle- but I can't see why any reasonably situated British person, especially those with not very high job expectations, should 'dream' of living in Spain and not, say, Germany.


Why not ask your son, perhaps he "lived the dream"

I do not think the phrase just applies to Spain, but to Australia, New Zealand and perhaps Canada. Change the word dream to Ambition and it was once my ambition to retire in the Canary Islands, it was also my sons ambition to work in the Canary Islands. He achieved his ambition and so did I. Did he in turn live the dream. Am I also now living the dream?

Hepa

P.S. Neither of us are bricklayers


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I can understand all of the sentiments in the above posts but the main point of my question hasn't been addressed: Why Spain?
> Jo comes nearest to providing the answer, I think. Package holidays and tv programmes....
> As I said before on this forum, I'm here by pure chance....my son happened to have property here -so I could have ended up in France, Italy, Portugal, or even Canada where we had initially bought retirement property.
> I love everything about Spain -the people, climate, lifestyle- but I can't see why any reasonably situated British person, especially those with not very high job expectations, should 'dream' of living in Spain and not, say, Germany.


For me, the reason for leaving the UK was mainly down to (in a similar way to Gus) wanting to get out of the endless hours of traffic jams, target driven lifestyle, etc. My partner of the time had a lot of health problems (serious) and we were advised a warmer climate would be of benefit.

I had a Spanish great uncle who used to tell me tales of Spanish life when I was a young child, and obviously have holidayed in Spain as a child and an adult so it felt like the right place for me.

For me, its not a dream, its a better way of life. Like so many have said, on this threat and others, since moving here my life has changed. I am so very lucky to live in this wonderful country and experience all it has to offer, but on the other hand, again like Gus, in the UK I earned mega bucks, if I wanted anything I bought it - no thinking. Expensive thigs, nice holidays, brand new car at least every year etc.

Now I do OK, I am not complaining at all. Compared to most I do very well, but I don't rush out to buy the latest TV, latest gadgets etc, I think about things, buy what I need and occasionally treat myself (maybe a coffee machine soon hey Mary!) . Perhaps though that's not jsut down to money. In the UK my life revolved around work, and in the evening sitting at home because I was too nakered to do anything. Perhaps, like many in the UK, I worked in high flying stressful jobs in order to be able to finance luxuries that I felt I needed in order to give my stressful boring life some meaning?

My life here has much more meaning, I work but I enjoy my spare time, I am relaxed more, and lead a totally different life to the UK (for example, several evenings a week I will dine with friends, why? because its cheaper than dining in!), I love spending time with clients, socialising, being involved in the village life, feeling safe to walk alone late at night etc etc. Now I have a Spanish OH so sorry folks it looks like Spain is stuck with me!

Am I living a dream - NO
Am I better off financially - NO
Am I better off in other ways - HELL YES
Would I swap my modest Spanish life for my old cash rich english life - HELL NO!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

casa99 said:


> Hi all newbie here, the main reason we bought our place in spain was my partner had been to the canary islands and majorca and ibizia , but never to mainland spain so we came over on an inspection trip in Feb 2000 to look, we stayed the first night in torrevijeca ( probably spelt it wrong ) but wanted somewhere more quieter and ended up at a place called Lake Negratin about half an hours journey from Baza Andalucia, there was this half built villa just walls and roof but the other half just said this is it , this is what I want. So next year October when I retire we will live there., can`t wait.


OOH, that sounds interesting, have the walls now turned into a house? We bought something, but not that bad, ours just hadn't been lived in for 16 years! That also was in 2000, we have more or less turned it into our home and now live here on a permanent basis.

And Casa99 life here is good, the winters are warm, good luck, go for it!

Hepa


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> Why not ask your son, perhaps he "lived the dream"
> 
> I do not think the phrase just applies to Spain, but to Australia, New Zealand and perhaps Canada. Change the word dream to Ambition and it was once my ambition to retire in the Canary Islands, it was also my sons ambition to work in the Canary Islands. He achieved his ambition and so did I. Did he in turn live the dream. Am I also now living the dream?
> 
> ...


No,my son wouldn't have looked at it in that way. He lives and works in the UK and is happy to do so. He visits occasionally with family or to play golf with friends. My daughter-in-law initially purchased property in Spain as an investment as she was receiving an inadequate return on her UK investments at that time. 
I doubt if they will ever live here.
And that is my point.
'Ambition' and 'dream' are two entirely different concepts. Most people with any drive have ambitions. It's a poor sort of individual who doesn't, imo. But unless you are totally moronic, you tailor ambitions to practicalities and take careful note of all obstacles and associated problems that could prevent you from fulfilling that ambition.
Members of my family live in or own property in Australia, Canada, the States, Spain and France. If you asked them if the word 'dream' came into their plans they'd gaze in amazement. Like you, they were practical people who made practical, achievable plans, not dreamers.
I just do not understand why living in Spain and not other countries is something so special for so many people. I don't dream my life away, I make the most of where I find myself as do most happy people. Currently I'm happy in Spain but I don not foresee ending my days here - or in England, for that matter.
As for your comment about 'bricklayers'...that was probably not a wise example for me to choose as bricklaying is a skilled, highly-remunerated craft in great demand and short supply. 
My point is that many would-be immigrants have no trade, craft, profession whatever. 
Would they not be happier if they improved their situation in their native country rather than trying their luck in a foreign country with high unemployment?
Incidentally, in my time in Prague, I do not recall ever hearing anyone talk about 'living the Czech dream'. Why not, I wonder? The cost of living is cheap, it's a pleasant enough country and Prague is a great city to live in.
I'm beginning to think that for most Spanish dreamers it's simply a question of that sunlight deficiency disease.....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I can understand all of the sentiments in the above posts but the main point of my question hasn't been addressed: *Why Spain*?


OK, I'm afraid I am going to rake up some stereotypes here, but the people I suspect you are talking about are probably more influenced by stereotypes! 

Germany is too much like Britain, and full of people who put their towels on the sunbeds; 
France is full of French people who don't like the British;
Italy is too expensive and only posh Brits go there;
Greece has an impossibly difficult language;
Other eastern Mediterranean countries are a bit too "foreign";
Other northern European countries are too boring.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> OK, I'm afraid I am going to rake up some stereotypes here, but the people I suspect you are talking about are probably more influenced by stereotypes!
> 
> Germany is too much like Britain, and full of people who put their towels on the sunbeds;
> France is full of French people who don't like the British;
> ...


:clap2::clap2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> For me, its not a dream, its a better way of life. Like so many have said, on this threat and others, since moving here my life has changed. I am so very lucky to live in this wonderful country and experience all it has to offer, but on the other hand, again like Gus,* in the UK I earned mega bucks, if I wanted anything I **bought it - no thinking*. Expensive thigs, nice holidays, brand new car at least every year etc.
> 
> 
> Would I swap my modest Spanish life for my old cash rich english life - HELL NO!


That is my point, Steve. You had a good job in the UK. You weren't a dreamer in any sense of the word. I'll bet you had everything sorted before you came here.
You knew that you would be financially viable and that any drop in remuneration would be more than compensated by the huge improvement in your lifestyle.
A whole lot different from being unemployed ,stuck in some dreary hell-hole with no skills or qualifications sitting in front of the tv with a can of lager watching 'A Place in the Sun' and thinking you'll 'live the dream' in Spain.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That is my point, Steve. You had a good job in the UK. You weren't a dreamer in any sense of the word. I'll bet you had everything sorted before you came here.
> You knew that you would be financially viable and that any drop in remuneration would be more than compensated by the huge improvement in your lifestyle.
> A whole lot different from being unemployed ,stuck in some dreary hell-hole with no skills or qualifications sitting in front of the tv with a can of lager watching 'A Place in the Sun' and thinking you'll 'live the dream' in Spain.


Yes, I agree with your point 100% Mary. But in the short time I have been on this forum how may people post "looking for job because I want to move to Spain"? LOADS!

People think its easy but they need to open their eyes, seriously! Nobody should embark on Spani without either a sustainable plan for income, a good idea and a bit of luck, or enough cash in the bank to eat until they die!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Why Spain ? For us it came down to the weather. We'd considered going to New Zealand when it looked like our daughters might choose to emigrate there but although we would have gone it would have probably still been to cold for me. France wasn't even a consideration, I don't even like driving through the place. Germany ? Well my brother has lived & worked there for 30+ years , owns a house,now retired but I've never been there. Far too cold for me. If it had been to work then I might have considered it for a while. Italy I never fancied , so that left Spain & Portugal which we'd visited regularly on holiday. Why we didn't choose Portugal I don't know , or can't remember. Ease of return journey was a consideration as at the time my father was still alive, but now I 've not been back for over 5 years , nor do I have any intention of going there if I can help it.
Tv programmes never influenced us as we were looking for somewhere with no Brits. + I don't believe anything on the tv . Would I move on ? possibly yes , but only with a motorhome for touring. 
The chap I used to work with out here ,moved out in 2003,had never been to Spain in his life . Just came out to find a house , sold up & moved. They're still here.


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

Hepa said:


> OOH, that sounds interesting, have the walls now turned into a house? We bought something, but not that bad, ours just hadn't been lived in for 16 years! That also was in 2000, we have more or less turned it into our home and now live here on a permanent basis.
> 
> And Casa99 life here is good, the winters are warm, good luck, go for it!
> 
> Hepa


Thanks Hepa , yes the house was completed (new build) in july 2002 and we have been spending all our hols (we both work at a school) there since so as I said am looking forward to next year to retire there, although winters are not as warm where you are.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> OK, I'm afraid I am going to rake up some stereotypes here, but the people I suspect you are talking about are probably more influenced by stereotypes!
> 
> Germany is too much like Britain, and full of people who put their towels on the sunbeds;
> France is full of French people who don't like the British;
> ...



And I suspect you are right.....those kinds of people will be more influenced by stereotypes.
That and as Jo said holidays and tv programmes.
But I can't get my head around the fact that so many would-be immigrants seem so ignorant of how for so many people the 'dream' has turned into a nightmare.
I know of four people who can't sell their homes and are desperate to return to the UK.
It just seems plain daft and incomprehensible to me to think of living in any country in the world as a 'dream'. You have to be very dissatisfied with your life to base your new life on dreams of a few months of sunshine.
The UK isn't that bad, surely....


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I know of four people who can't sell their homes and are desperate to return to the UK.
> ..


I cant get myhead round why anyone would buy a home in a foreign country before they have gone out, an established themselves. A home purchase is a mega comitment and tie. It's like getting married on the first date


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

"Incidentally, in my time in Prague, I do not recall ever hearing anyone talk about 'living the Czech dream'. Why not, I wonder? The cost of living is cheap, it's a pleasant enough country and Prague is a great city to live in " .  Err, it's too cold ?

"I'm beginning to think that for most Spanish dreamers it's simply a question of that sunlight deficiency disease....."

Probably for me it is. Working all my life in dark buildings with temps. down to -40ºc doesn't leave you wanting to face another dismal , rainy , grey old day ever again.


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

steve_in_spain said:


> I cant get myhead round why anyone would buy a home in a foreign country before they have gone out, an established themselves. A home purchase is a mega comitment and tie. It's like getting married on the first date


Steve I agree with what you say, but we bougth our villa not just for holidays but to eventually live there, which is what we will be doing next october.
on a lighter note I wouln`t get married on the first date either


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

casa99 said:


> Steve I agree with what you say, but we bougth our villa not just for holidays but to eventually live there, which is what we will be doing next october.
> on a lighter note I wouln`t get married on the first date either


Comprendo! But by the sounds of it you retained your life in the UK, invested in a property in Spain to use for holidays and eventually live in. If you decided at a later date movig was not right you still had your UK life and could then dispose of or deal with your villa at your leisure - you are sensible!

What I was refering to, in response to another post was that believe it or not, some people sell up in the UK, jump on an easyjet, and buy a villa hoping they will then find work, and build their life - loco!


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

steve_in_spain said:


> Comprendo! But by the sounds of it you retained your life in the UK, invested in a property in Spain to use for holidays and eventually live in. If you decided at a later date movig was not right you still had your UK life and could then dispose of or deal with your villa at your leisure - you are sensible!
> 
> What I was refering to, in response to another post was that believe it or not, some people sell up in the UK, jump on an easyjet, and buy a villa hoping they will then find work, and build their life - loco!


Absolutly right Steve some people put on their dark glasses or rose tinted specs and leave their thinking heads at home and buy buy buy , then when things get tough its cry cry cry and bye bye bye.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think I may have given this thread the wrong title.
What I wanted to ask was why when times are tough in the UK people's thoughts now turn to Spain? Decades ago, in our Imperial past, it was Australia, Canada or even South Africa for some. Those places wre seen as not too 'foreign', English was spoken and you could easily feel at home. But nearly all those migrants had jobs or family connections waiting in their newly adopted countries.
Now it seems Spain has taken the place of these traditional migratory destinations.
Alcalaina and Jo have I think supplied most of the answers as to why.
And although gus is right about sunshine and Prague, I guess the Czech Republic might be just a little too 'strange' for many would-be immigrants.
When I announced I was off to live in Prague a frequent response was 'Why do you want to live there?'.
But Spain...the answer would be 'Oh, I'm so envious' or something along those lines.
Yep, it's the Sun wot did it...
( Does anyone remember that infamous quote? Come on, Acalaina, I bet you do..)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> What I was refering to, in response to another post was that believe it or not, some people sell up in the UK, jump on an easyjet, and buy a villa hoping they will then find work, and build their life - loco!


That's what I was trying to say...thanks, Steve


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> I cant get myhead round why anyone would buy a home in a foreign country before they have gone out, an established themselves. A home purchase is a mega comitment and tie. It's like getting married on the first date


All these people are what I suppose you'd call the professional or semi-professional middle classes back in the UK.
They purchased homes years ago when the £/euro was very favourable and then variously experienced relationship breakups, loss of employment/business failure here or family problems back home.
I guess they thought that they'd always get 1.50 euros to their £.
I may be excessively cautious and timid but I base my calculations on a 1: 1 parity.....


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> Now it seems Spain has taken the place of these traditional migratory destinations.


Some of the reasons we didn't move to OZ, Canada, NZ....

1. You don't need to pass any exceptionally stringent immigration processes - sadly you can't be a £10 pom anymore. We had enough points, but the paper trail required puts even spanish beaurocracy to shame.

2. It's incredibly expensive for a family to move down under - you're looking at about £20,000 by the time you've got the paperwork and visas (x4), plane tickets (x4), a 3 bed house worth of furniture and belongings shipped over, bought at least one car (public transport in all the above non-existent), paid a deposit on a rental house or solicitors fees on a purchase etc etc. Many of those costs exist on a move to Spain, but are much much less. 

3. I believe that there is a big 'if it doesn't work we'll go back' mentality, and that just isn't possible over 10,000 miles.

For us, it was a HUGE thing that I couldn't be that far away from my family. I may not want to live in the UK for a while, but they do and it's totally unfair to expect them to make the running, and £4000 every time you want to see your sister is not feasible. I'd rather be 2-4 hours away than 24 hours away. I don't know if that occurs to other people considering emigration.

Just my thoughts.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

fourgotospain said:


> Some of the reasons we didn't move to OZ, Canada, NZ....
> 
> 
> . I'd rather be 2-4 hours away than 24 hours away. I don't know if that occurs to other people considering emigration.
> ...


That was the reason why we sold our place in Canada. Great to go there ( a village/small town in the Ottawa Valley) for long holidays but too far to pop back for a weekend....
That and the fact that we slowly realised that life there would be like watching paint dry.....

PS You have a great website...hope all is going well for you.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Yep, it's the Sun wot did it...
> ( Does anyone remember that infamous quote? Come on, Acalaina, I bet you do..)


It's *'It's The Sun Wot Won It' *about the unexpectd Tory victory in 1992 General Election following anti-Kinnock campaign waged by the tabloid newspaper.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Joppa said:


> It's *'It's The Sun Wot Won It' *about the unexpectd Tory victory in 1992 General Election following anti-Kinnock campaign waged by the tabloid newspaper.



Now....if I had a bottle of champagne and if you lived down the road I'd be knocking at your door :clap2:


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

You mentioned Australia and the immigrants from the U.K.

I was employed on the ships that took them there on the £10 passage. The vast majority were working class, they did not have family there, neither did they have employment Their accommodation for two years was the immigrants hostel. Those families went in the main for a better life for the children. I admired them, I wonder how many stayed.

In 1958 my best friend, then a 14 year old, travelled the same route with his family, they are all still there, those that are still alive.

I tried to emigrate myself but those dastardly Aussie Immigration Officials would not let me in. The absolute cads!

Never mind, I like it here,

Hepa


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Once apon a time I think it did work! The exchange rate was great, Spain was very cheap and growing. You could buy a house here for "nonepence" (selling a small town terrace in the UK and building a four bed, luxury villa etc for a third of the money), live very cheaply and there was plenty of new expats who needed builders, swimming pool cleaners, garage mechanics etc.... and preferred to deal with "fellow Brits". Spain itself was growing rapidly as a holiday resort and needing foreign imput, new infrastructures....... It was a great time for all. So yes, you could come over and "live the dream" - but its all been done now and theres nothing left to do! Its now part of Europe, prices here have risen and life is no longer easy here - I often say that its probably easier and more relaxing to move to Cornwall than Spain!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> You mentioned Australia and the immigrants from the U.K.
> 
> I was employed on the ships that took them there on the £10 passage. The vast majority were working class, they did not have family there, neither did they have employment Their accommodation for two years was the immigrants hostel. Those families went in the main for a better life for the children. I admired them, I wonder how many stayed.
> 
> ...


My Uncle Charlie and Aunt Elsie went to Australia in the late 'sixties. He was a CPO in the Navy, nothing grand, but couldn't settle in the UK when he left. I think they found it tough at first but they never contemplated returning to the UK. 
They are in their early eighties now and family members who visit say they are looking fit and healthy.
Another Uncle went to the States in the early 'fifties. He and his wife (who was very entrepreneurial) prospered there and retired to a beach-front residence in Florida where they still live.
My mother's sister married a Canadian soldier who was in the UK preparing for the D Day landing. She returned to Canada with him after the war and they were married for over sixty years. He died seven years ago. She is in her late eighties and has the energy and lifestyle of someone twenty or even thirty years younger.
One of my cousins emigrated to Spain with his wife in the late sixties when he was quite young and opened a small B&B. This was quite unusual then.
I'm sure that none of these peoples' lives would have been as good if they had stayed home in Dorset.
My family's roots are working-class peasant rural and go back for centuries in our small corner of South-West England but we obviously have a strong streak of what the Germans call Wanderlust. I always had a huge curiosity about 'abroad' and first went to Germany to stay with a penfriend when I was sixteen.
I travelled the longest way possible to get the most out of the experience: night boat from Southampton to Le Havre, train to Paris then after enough time to see a bit of Paris, night train via Strasburg to Stuttgart. The whole family plus dog came to see me off..
Wherever else I've been in the world, the sheer magic and delight of that first trip has never been surpassed....


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Joppa said:


> It's *'It's The Sun Wot Won It' *about the unexpectd Tory victory in 1992 General Election following anti-Kinnock campaign waged by the tabloid newspaper.


I remember something like "Will the last person to leave please turn the lights off".


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Once apon a time I think it did work! The exchange rate was great, Spain was very cheap and growing. You could buy a house here for "nonepence" (selling a small town terrace in the UK and building a four bed, luxury villa etc for a third of the money), live very cheaply and there was plenty of new expats who needed builders, swimming pool cleaners, garage mechanics etc.... and preferred to deal with "fellow Brits". Spain itself was growing rapidly as a holiday resort and needing foreign imput, new infrastructures....... It was a great time for all. So yes, you could come over and "*live the dream"* - but its all been done now and theres nothing left to do! Its now part of Europe, prices here have risen and life is no longer easy here - I often say that its probably easier and more relaxing to move to Cornwall than Spain!
> 
> Jo xxx


By which we mean 'Enjoy a bit of sun'????
WE still haven't really had a thoroughly satisfying definition of the phrase


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> By which we mean 'Enjoy a bit of sun'????
> WE still haven't really had a thoroughly satisfying definition of the phrase


Sun, sea, sand, sangria, peace, relaxation, no complications, no money worries

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> I remember something like "Will the last person to leave please turn the lights off".


Yes, it was a vicious campaign. The front page had a picture of Kinnock's head in a lightbulb. He never forgot or forgave that and was furious with Blair for cosying up to The Sun.
Kinnock may not have been Prime Ministerial material but he was a thoroughly decent man.
I had the privilege of meeting him several times and he was warm, witty and genuine.
I've got a photo of me with him somewhere....I don't really want to find it as it was taken over twenty years ago and I looked quite presentable then....on a good day, at least


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Sun, sea, sand, sangria, peace, relaxation, no complications, no money worries
> 
> Jo xxx


Hmm. Time was...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Interesting reading, including the quote *It's The Sun Wot Won It *which I had missed out on!I can think of loads of reasons as to why people might want to come and live in Spain, but few as to why Spain would be THE country above all others*, *but love what Alcalaina, Steve, Jo, Gus and others have said*. 
*From what I've seen on the other forums certain forums, or should I say certain, countries attract certain questions, and therefore certain people. For example in Dubai we have a fair amount of questions about hairdressers, cosmetics, places to go out, what can I buy my loved one as a present... In the Philipines and Thailand there are a lot of posts about women, women and western men, relationships, money... And Spain it's questions about unskilled people finding work, schools and setting up a business


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Interesting reading, including the quote *It's The Sun Wot Won It *which I had missed out on!I can think of loads of reasons as to why people might want to come and live in Spain, but few as to why Spain would be THE country above all others*, *but love what Alcalaina, Steve, Jo, Gus and others have said*.
> *From what I've seen on the other forums certain forums, or should I say certain, countries attract certain questions, and therefore certain people. For example in Dubai we have a fair amount of questions about hairdressers, cosmetics, places to go out, what can I buy my loved one as a present... In the Philipines and Thailand there are a lot of posts about women, women and western men, relationships, money... And Spain it's questions about unskilled people finding work, schools and setting up a business



Oh dear!! That doesn't reflect well on the image of Spain some people must have
And it's precisely why these types of would-be immigrants choose Spain that intrigues me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh dear!! That doesn't reflect well on the image of Spain some people must have
> And it's precisely why these types of would-be immigrants choose Spain that intrigues me.


What about the image of the other countries??


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh dear!! That doesn't reflect well on the image of Spain some people must have
> And it's precisely why these types of would-be immigrants choose Spain that intrigues me.


Mary to put it another way (thinking of Brits) where else could they choose?

Portugal has a small fraction of sunshine coast compared to Spain so possibly it gets close to its fair share. But beyond that the options either look like you'd have to work hard, you'd need to show respect for their language, you'd be too cold, you couldn't easily run home, and/or the price of beer would be too great. 

Spain has it all in their eyes. Sad for them reality is not the same as the illusion


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yep, it's the Sun wot did it...
> ( Does anyone remember that infamous quote? Come on, Acalaina, I bet you do..)


Oh God yes ...
:hurt:
Though from where we are today, John Major looks like a benign centre-leftist.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*Emigration*

Fascinating to see the various reasons people give to emigrate. For a lot of people they seem unable to make what they perceive as a success of their life and think that things will be better somewhere else. For others (and it would be fascinating to find out the proportion who come from North of Watford) see the sun as the most important thing in their life. Others have this romantic view of sitting by their pool with a glass of wine enjoying a barbeque with their friends. Others have the dream of running their own bar.
What I really don't understand is how they manage to keep on the rose coloured glasses when reality hit's them in the face. The first priority seems to be to run down their previous country. Once the work for the ex-pats dried up it is next to impossible to find reasonable work and certainly contracted work. A lot with no or very low qualifications who haven't studied for a considerable time and certainly not a foregn language, think that they can pick it up in no time and five years later their best attempt is a 'cafe con leche'. The sun is wonderful (if you like it) but sometimes you can have too much of a good thing and then there are the warm winters. Where? Houses inadequately insulated, poor choice of energy supply and cold. Not to mention having to run the air conditioning because it's too hot. Finally what really amuses me the most is the expressed desire to 'integrate with the Spanish'. It seems that in Spain the major topic of converations is the family and friends and yet this is exactly what most have given up by emigrating. 

I'm afraid for most it's not about living in another country (and certainly not legally, paying taxes, no cash in hand, etc) it's about the weather, cheap booze and cigarettes. Buy in expat shops, drink in expat bars, employ expat 'tradesmen', and watch expat TV. A Home in the Sun!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Mary to put it another way (thinking of Brits) where else could they choose?
> 
> Portugal has a small fraction of sunshine coast compared to Spain so possibly it gets close to its fair share. But beyond that the options either look like you'd have to work hard, you'd need to show respect for their language, you'd be too cold, you couldn't easily run home, and/or the price of beer would be too great.
> 
> Spain has it all in their eyes. Sad for them reality is not the same as the illusion


Yep, good point Nigel.


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## pensionista (Sep 6, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> Fascinating to see the various reasons people give to emigrate. For a lot of people they seem unable to make what they perceive as a success of their life and think that things will be better somewhere else. For others (and it would be fascinating to find out the proportion who come from North of Watford) see the sun as the most important thing in their life. Others have this romantic view of sitting by their pool with a glass of wine enjoying a barbeque with their friends. Others have the dream of running their own bar.
> What I really don't understand is how they manage to keep on the rose coloured glasses when reality hit's them in the face. The first priority seems to be to run down their previous country. Once the work for the ex-pats dried up it is next to impossible to find reasonable work and certainly contracted work. A lot with no or very low qualifications who haven't studied for a considerable time and certainly not a foregn language, think that they can pick it up in no time and five years later their best attempt is a 'cafe con leche'. The sun is wonderful (if you like it) but sometimes you can have too much of a good thing and then there are the warm winters. Where? Houses inadequately insulated, poor choice of energy supply and cold. Not to mention having to run the air conditioning because it's too hot. Finally what really amuses me the most is the expressed desire to 'integrate with the Spanish'. It seems that in Spain the major topic of converations is the family and friends and yet this is exactly what most have given up by emigrating.
> 
> I'm afraid for most it's not about living in another country (and certainly not legally, paying taxes, no cash in hand, etc) it's about the weather, cheap booze and cigarettes. Buy in expat shops, drink in expat bars, employ expat 'tradesmen', and watch expat TV. A Home in the Sun!


Feeling bitter are we?
We're from "north of Watford" and spend half our time avoiding the sun.
We live in a 100% spanish community and have been made welcome beyond belief. there are no "expat bars/shops/tradesmen /tv around here. We have tried to embrace their lifestyle because we feel it is better than the one we practised before ....healthier...more enjoyable...more acceptable..more congenial...more sociable...etc.
We don't indulge in booze or cigarettes either.
We are both fairly fluent in spanish and can converse intelligently with our friends/neighbours and everyone else.
Spain is far from perfect, but it's better than what we had in the UK.
I don't know what the cause of your bitterness is but not all of us live in "expatshire" and all that entails.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Not bitter at all - my comment about north of Watford was in respect of the weather being considerably better in the South of the UK than the North. I think your comment 'Spain is far from perfect, but it's better than what we had in the UK' speaks volumes.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

pensionista said:


> Feeling bitter are we?
> We're from "north of Watford" ............


 pensionista I thought that was rather thoughtless but I wouldn't get hung up on it; I think it was a reference to people from colder climes.

If you are upset think of poor old me! I'm Watford born and bred. We're sick of being the border town. We are 22 miles out of London. Of course many confuse Watford with a well known Gap


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## mattferrier (Oct 18, 2010)

i myslef am heading out to the marbella area next wek. i have just landed a job with a financial consultancy and had the choice of offices that they have in 40 countires, so why marbella?
if i had chosen dubai,abu dhabi,singapore,moscos,geneva for example i will have the option to earn considerably more, but the main pull for me was that friends and family can come and visit me easily,regularly and cheaply. the cost of living especially rent is considerably more than other locations, there is an active established expat community to help me settle in until i find my feet and then i can choose if i want to be more remote. and the WEATHER! i live in watford, the sun is out and i still needed my winter coat to step to the shops today and it wont be long before my gas bill will b at £100+ per month to just keep the house warm. and jhaving to wait nine months before can look forward to the chance of another warm day.
i dont feel the cost of living represents the quality of life here in uk, i am aware things are difficult in spain, but there are very limited jobs in london too at a higher level (what jobs there are the salaries are much much lower than 2 years ago) so i'd rather be in the sun and struggle than in the cold doing it if thats what it comes to.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> pensionista I thought that was rather thoughtless but I wouldn't get hung up on it; I think it was a reference to people from colder climes.
> 
> If you are upset think of poor old me! I'm Watford born and bred. We're sick of being the border town. We are 22 miles out of London. Of course many confuse Watford with a well known Gap


Apart from one Scot, all the British expats in our village are from the southern half of England - south of the Wash, that is, rather than Watford. I crave the sound of a northern accent at times.


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## pensionista (Sep 6, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> Not bitter at all - my comment about north of Watford was in respect of the weather being considerably better in the South of the UK than the North. I think your comment 'Spain is far from perfect, but it's better than what we had in the UK' speaks volumes.


It's just that your comments implied..(well, to me anyhow) that all expats are following the usually perceived pattern of propping up bars...going to Morrisons/M & S/Iceland/Lidl..using only expats for jobs etc...not learning the language..watching UK TV etc etc etc. There are exceptions to those rules...quite a lot I would imagine , but your comments did not acknowledge that.
I'm not looking for confrontation but it does pee me off sometimes when it is implied that the Brits out here all fit the "template".


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> . . Finally what really amuses me the most is the expressed desire to 'integrate with the Spanish'. It seems that in Spain the major topic of converations is the family and friends and yet this is exactly what most have given up by emigrating.
> 
> I'm afraid for most it's not about living in another country (and certainly not legally, paying taxes, no cash in hand, etc) it's about the weather, cheap booze and cigarettes. Buy in expat shops, drink in expat bars, employ expat 'tradesmen', and watch expat TV. A Home in the Sun!


I think you've summed it up and Nigel has too.
Of course not everyone who emigrates to Spain can be put in that category but we do seem to get a larger than deserved share of the kind of people I left the UK to get away from!
That is in no way meant to be a snobbish comment (although some will no doubt see it that way), it's about standards of public behaviour. Chavs-r-us have passports and travel, alas
I also find it amusing -and a trifle perplexing -when people think they have 'integrated'. We live in a largely Spanish area and our Spanish neighbour comes to our house for tea and a chat but of course we are seen as guiris, because that's what we are. No offence is intended or taken. What most people see as being 'integrated' seems to me to merely a simply acknowledgement that you are a nice enough human being regardless of nationality and that Spanish friends will treat you as such.
Lifestyles are not really that different, when it comes down to it. Eating and drinking aren't that much different for most people, goods in shops aren't that much different. A lot more sun of course but that's hardly a major cultural shift.
At the end of the day, globalisation has done a great deal to homogenise us all.
Moving to Spain, Russia, Canada or Uzbekhistan is no big deal, nowadays, really.
Which is why I can't get my head round why anyone, north or south of Watford, would 'dream' about living in Spain.
I think it reflects adversely on the kind of life you had in the UK and people with that sort of malaise often carry it with them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

pensionista said:


> It's just that your comments implied..(well, to me anyhow) that all expats are following the usually perceived pattern of propping up bars...going to Morrisons/M & S/Iceland/Lidl..using only expats for jobs etc...not learning the language..watching UK TV etc etc etc. There are exceptions to those rules...quite a lot I would imagine , but your comments did not acknowledge that.
> I'm not looking for confrontation but it does pee me off sometimes when it is implied that the Brits out here all fit the "template".


I am not an 'expat'. I am an immigrant. When Somalis, Bangladeshis, Poles etc. who migrate to the UK are referred to as 'expats' then I'll be happy to have that term applied to me.
The very fact that so many British immigrants here like to think of themselves as 'expats' is intriguing. As far as I know, Scandinavian, Dutch, German and other nationalities don't have such a term. 
Does this usage reflect the fact that for many of us the concept of 'Empire' is deeply rooted in our subconscious, I wonder?


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*Immigration*

Just to clarify things pensionista I very carefully wrote 'I'm afraid for most it's not about living in another country.............' with emphasis on the word 'most'. Whenever global statements are made, there are bound to be exceptions and you are obviously one. However, I still believe in the majority of cases i.e. most the statement is correct.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Needs more work.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pensionista said:


> ...... that all expats are following the usually perceived pattern of propping up bars...going to Morrisons/M & S/Iceland/Lidl..using only expats for jobs etc...not learning the language..watching UK TV etc etc etc. There are exceptions to those rules...quite a lot I would imagine , but your comments did not acknowledge that.
> I'm not looking for confrontation but it does pee me off sometimes when it is implied that the Brits out here all fit the "template".



Apart from propping up bars and not learning the language, most of that applies to me!! LOL And whats wrong with that??? Like it or like it not, I'm British and sadly I find that I gravitate to Britishness - I can chat to someone who speaks my native tongue, my food tastes and styles are inbred. I have Spanish friends but, just like most expats from any country, I feel a certain degree of comfort by being near my own countrymen and women!!! I really dont think I'm any different to most expats/immigrants!

I like Spain tho. So thats why I'm here, I like the climate, I like the views, the atmosphere, the people, the way life is....... and I dont like England!

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

jojo said:


> Apart from propping up bars and not learning the language, most of that applies to me!! LOL And whats wrong with that??? Like it or like it not, I'm British and sadly I find that I gravitate to Britishness - I can chat to someone who speaks my native tongue, my food tastes and styles are inbred. I have Spanish friends but, just like most expats from any country, I feel a certain degree of comfort by being near my own countrymen and women!!! I really dont think I'm any different to most expats/immigrants!
> 
> I like Spain tho. So thats why I'm here, I like the climate, I like the views, the atmosphere, the people, the way life is....... and I dont like England!
> 
> Jo xxx


Hey guys can everyone stop taking every comment personally?

This was a good discussion and now a few are getting too sensitive. We all know what "propping up bars" refers to . 

Something I was wondering was how many brit families expect that their kids will continue in Spain and how many will expect them to migrate back to blightie? Will they choose Spain or the UK (or elsewhere) and what impact will this have on the parents now left potentially isolated?

I suspect few will stay who arrived in Spain after the age of ten. Is the dream of the parents transferable to their kids?

Any thoughts?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Hey guys can everyone stop taking every comment personally?
> 
> This was a good discussion and now a few are getting too sensitive. We all know what "propping up bars" refers to .
> 
> ...


Well-educated young Spaniards are emigrating in droves, simply to get a decent job. I suspect the children of recent immigrants will have to make the same journey, unless there is some economic miracle in the next ten years. 

I wonder if there are Spanish expat forums where people are discussing the pros and cons of moving to England?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Apart from propping up bars and not learning the language, most of that applies to me!! LOL And whats wrong with that??? Like it or like it not, I'm British and sadly I find that I gravitate to Britishness - I can chat to someone who speaks my native tongue, my food tastes and styles are inbred. I have Spanish friends but, just like most expats from any country, I feel a certain degree of comfort by being near my own countrymen and women!!! I really dont think I'm any different to most expats/immigrants!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Aw, come on , Jo.....you've developed a mean old line in marracca rattling and castanet clacking, not to mention your show-stopping flamenco..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Hey guys can everyone stop taking every comment personally?
> 
> This was a good discussion and now a few are getting too sensitive. QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Apart from propping up bars and not learning the language, most of that applies to me!! LOL And whats wrong with that??? Like it or like it not, I'm British and sadly I find that I gravitate to Britishness ...
> 
> Jo xxx


Nothing at all wrong with that! You can safely delete the word "sadly".

It's perfectly OK to like British people but not want to live in Britain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

nigele2 said:


> Hey guys can everyone stop taking every comment personally?
> 
> This was a good discussion and now a few are getting too sensitive. We all know what "propping up bars" refers to .
> 
> ...



It is a good discussion. As for what our kids will do???? I suspect that since there isnt much work in Spain, those who are not totally bilingual will probably go back to the UK when they leave school - without any real qualifications!???? Altho, if they are lucky enough find work here they may stay??

My kids are in an International school and I suspect they'll get their A-levels and then return to the UK to follow whatever careers they can find or university. However, I like to think that my kids will have learnt from living in a foreign country and attending an international school that the world is a small place and that there are no national boundaries in their lives.

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Nothing at all wrong with that! You can safely delete the word "sadly".
> 
> It's perfectly OK to like British people but not want to live in Britain.


I should have said "sadly" I'm British!!!! I'm not fond of being British, but thats what I am and its never going to change. 

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> nigele2 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys can everyone stop taking every comment personally?
> ...


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

jojo said:


> It is a good discussion. As for what our kids will do???? I suspect that since there isnt much work in Spain, those who are not totally bilingual will probably go back to the UK when they leave school - without any real qualifications!???? Altho, if they are lucky enough find work here they may stay??
> 
> My kids are in an International school and I suspect they'll get their A-levels and then return to the UK to follow whatever careers they can find or university. However, I like to think that my kids will have learnt from living in a foreign country and attending an international school that the world is a small place and that there are no national boundaries in their lives.
> 
> Jo xxx


That raises an interesting point relating to Mary's original question. Could we suggest Expats are only temporary residents (even if temporary was 20 years). Immigrants could be defined as people who arrive and contribute to Spain's future by producing in effect Spaniards? Thus we need a third expression for those who could be either.

I remember in the Far East in the 80s working with people who always called themselves expats. They never intended to die 'over there' as they used to say


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> That raises an interesting point relating to Mary's original question. Could we suggest Expats are only temporary residents (even if temporary was 20 years). Immigrants could be defined as people who arrive and contribute to Spain's future by producing in effect Spaniards? Thus we need a third expression for those who could be either.
> 
> I remember in the Far East in the 80s working with people who always called themselves expats. They never intended to die 'over there' as they used to say


Well, I am an immigrant in that I do intend to die here eventually, but I certainly don't plan to produce any Spaniards!

I don't fancy being called an alien. Perhaps we could borrow from the plant world and be "exotics"?

"Exotic (adj): introduced from another country : not native to the place where found"


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm not bothered what I'm called or referred to as long as its not a personal insult - even then it would only matter if it was from someone worth hearing it from! 

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Well, I am an immigrant in that I do intend to die here eventually, but I certainly don't plan to produce any Spaniards!
> 
> I don't fancy being called an alien. Perhaps we could borrow from the plant world and be "exotics"?
> 
> "Exotic (adj): introduced from another country : not native to the place where found"


Yes I haven't allowed for that. I think you should be an exotic as you came up with it 

So an expat arrives but doesn't burn their bridges
An immigrant buys in lock, stock and barrel
An exotic is an immigrant who doesn't intend to add to the breeding stock.
And an exigrant (sometimes called an immipat) is in two minds about it

And the pubs open. Adios


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Yes I haven't allowed for that. I think you should be an exotic as you came up with it
> 
> So an expat arrives but doesn't burn their bridges
> An immigrant buys in lock, stock and barrel
> ...


The expat / immigrant thing comes up about every 6 months and I think everyone knows exactly what Jojo, mrypg9 and I think about it! Here's a link to a thread discussing it and can anyone find the other one featuring the one and only Lennox? If you don't want to post it, pm me.
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/50367-what-immigrant.html


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

What our children will want to do, and where we'll die was something OH and I were just (rather morbidly)discussing last night....we decided we couldn't possible decide that at ages 38, 10 and 7! Guess the future is WIDE open...


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