# New Lawyer getting ready for Dubai



## Erich_Rhoemer (Aug 12, 2015)

Hi Everyone, 

I'm a brand new US attorney and I was hired in-house to become the EMEA specialist for a US company, with the goal to relocate me to Dubai within the next 15 months.
As such, I have a lot of questions regarding this move.

But first a little bit about me:
As I said earlier, I am a brand new attorney.
I graduated from a small US law school with a JD.
However I'm not a traditional student, I immigrated to the U.S. 4 years ago and before that I had graduated from an LLM and LLB from 2 French universities.
I'm married to a lovely nurse, and am now a US citizen as well.
We have no kids and no plans to spawn anytime soon 

As I wrote earlier, I was hired by a mid-size U.S. engineering company (not petroleum though) to be their EMEA specialist because of my civil law background and international experience: I've worked in France, India and the U.S.
The company I joined has a pretty decent international presence, but unfortunately they have nearly no experience expatriating Americans, as they generally import talent.
I would like to gain a bit more info on what to recommend to my employer

As a result, I am wondering how things will be over there, for myself and my wife.
I would like to have your opinion about certain things. At the moment I am trying to figure out the following:


1 -- Life:
- How is the cultural life over there?
We are currently living in the inland northwest, and as such it is pretty much a cultural desert compared to what I grew up with in France. Going to a larger city I'm hoping it will be a bit better regarding museums, operas/theater, etc...

- How is the day to day life compared to a large US/European city?

- How is it for women over there? 
I know this is kind of broad, but what I am wondering is that if yourself, or your wife had to change much of her routine when you moved, and if so, what changed.

- Does your spouse works over there?

- How did you and your spouse adapt to the new environment over there and how fast?

- How is public transportation? Is it efficient at all, or do you rely mostly on your own car?

- Hobby-wise, what do you do over there after you've visited the town? 
What kind of activities does the town offer?
How expensive do you feel hobbies are compared to where you come from? 

- How is the international community? Do you mostly hang out with people from you own country, or is it a mix? What are your relations with the locals?


2 -- Cost:
- How is the cost of accommodation compared to a US (or a French) city? [or any western part of the world you have lived in]

- How is the cost of food?
I mean how much do you spend eating in for your and your couple/family on average every months?

- How expensive are most of the local restaurants on average?

-How is inflation? I heard that accommodation especially can increase or decrease significantly from a year to another.


3 -- Expat' package
I have read some info about people that posted what their proposed package was on this forum. But the issue is that I can hardly find any information regarding what would be acceptable for someone in my position: in house, from the US, and well under 30 yo.

Currently, between my wife and myself, we make close 140k USD before tax (60 for me, approx’ 80k for her). But our cost of living (accommodation, food, internet, phone, water, electricity, fuel and car insurance for 2 simple cars) is only around 30k. As such, we can save, and knock down our student loans very fast.
Unfortunately she may not be able to work in the UAE, for various reasons, and I would then be the only breadwinner.

- I wonder what is the expectable salary for in-house lawyer over there? 
Any idea what it is for lawyers without a lot of experience?

- What kind of benefits does your employer provides you for you and your family:
-- housing?
-- school for children?
-- spousal allowance?
-- car/fuel ?
-- flights home?
-- Any other?
-- How often are your expat benefits updated?

I'll be very grateful for any info anyone could give me on this topic!
Thanks a lot, and Best!

- E.R.


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Its better than the US as long as you don't like hiking in forests  

Museums, operas/theatre - not much after you've been round the museums in the first year or so. theatre - not too much but there is opera in the region but its not Glyndebourne here 

The only change my wife made when here is to spend more on clothes and go out a lot more - she says she feels safer here than in the UK. She doesn't work - she 'does lunch' a lot with the ex-pat ladies crowd that meet up at the Emirates Golf club twice a week. She has more active friends here than in the UK and a few of them are from the US. My wifes best friend here is from the US but sadly return to NC in October as her husbands job is over. When she is here, PM me and I'll get her to join up with her group. Hobbies for me are cycling (hence the pseudonym) but plenty of watersports, land sports and the like. Hobbies are as expensive as you decide to make them here.

Just about everything here is more expensive IMO. But you only pay what you want to use and you can easily spend less if you reduce your expectations.


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I had written a long response but just lost it due to a glitch. 

We have Carrefour and Galeries Lafayettes. All the big name western brands plus the expensive boutiques you normally only find in London/Paris/New York. Shopping is definitely a recreational activity in this town.

Quality of life is very high for western expats. But it does come at a cost as it's also an expensive town. It's a place where you can spend $200 per person for a high end meal + wine or $10 for f cheap and brilliant curry in an Indian restaurant and everything in between. Housing is very expensive. 140K is about average for a 2-bedroom in Dubai Marina. 

Very large western expat community plus an even larger community of "westernised' expats from other parts of the world. It's socially active. Easy to meet people and make friends. Lots of people have lived in multiple countries. Lots of social groups, lots of sporting groups. 

Restaurants covering almost every cuisine in the world. After all, there's over 100 nationalities living in Dubai. 90% of the city's population are expats.

Arts scene is limited. New opera house under construction. Abu Dhabi is building a branch of the Lourve. Burgeoning contemporary arts scene in small galleries. Plenty of second rate international musicians pass through the UAE for concerts. But you're only 7 hours away from Paris and will have plenty of holiday days. 

If your wife is an experienced nurse she should be able to find a job as a nurse manager. Hospitals opening up left and right. Plenty of western women work as do most non-western women. 

In terms of salaries, my guess is that 30-35K a month is realistic for someone in your position. It's less than your joint income in the US but it's also tax free. If your wife finds a comparable job (which I think is feasible) then your joint income, also tax free, will be much higher. 

When negotiating your move to Dubai, expect the following as a minimum:

1. Relocation expenses including the flight out here and a shipping container.
2. At least one month in a hotel apartment while you find a place to live.
3. Annual flights to/from USA for you and your wife.
4. Health insurance for both of you.
5. Salary. Don't get too hung up on the benefits but focus on the overall package value. To a newbie it may look impressive to have separate housing and transportation allowances but those are mere calculations and only serve to reduce your actual salary and your end of service gratuity is based on the base salary, not the entire package value. Say you're offered a package value of 35K with 20K base, 5K transportation and 10K housing. Your EOS is only on the 20K base. But a lump sum package offer of 35K means your EOS is based on the entire 35K.

However, I do strongly urge that you negotiate a housing advance of at least 100K because most rents are paid in 1-4 cheques for the year and you often get a discount for paying in one cheque. Set up costs are very high in Dubai what with rents and that you pay too many deposits for utilities and internet and the agent's fee and apartment deposit. Try to get the company to cover as many of those as possible.


----------



## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

for US citizens it is still not tax free (only the first c. 100K is tax free).

For cost of living and packages you should read this thread which has a lot of info. http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...-salary-offer-package-questions-part-2-a.html


----------



## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

rsinner said:


> for US citizens it is still not tax free (only the first c. 100K is tax free).
> 
> For cost of living and packages you should read this thread which has a lot of info. http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...-salary-offer-package-questions-part-2-a.html


100k is the initial foreign-earned income exclusion. 

You can then write-off stonking extras around rent (up to $57k for Dubai, last I checked for 2014), in addition to itemised deductions.

In 15 years working here, my father never paid a penny to the IRS.


----------



## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

Fat Bhoy Tim said:


> 100k is the initial foreign-earned income exclusion.
> 
> You can then write-off stonking extras around rent (up to $57k for Dubai, last I checked for 2014), in addition to itemised deductions.
> 
> In 15 years working here, my father never paid a penny to the IRS.


I have colleagues who are paying 15-20% as taxes on their income. Maybe they need your father's accountants to work out their taxes


----------



## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

rsinner said:


> I have colleagues who are paying 15-20% as taxes on their income. Maybe they need your father's accountants to work out their taxes


These days he's paying tax in the UK rotating between the UK and Doha, so that insulates him. But even when he was in the UAE full-time he was paying no tax; the amount deductibles you can make on rent means you can write-off a lot.


----------



## inteli (Aug 12, 2015)




----------



## Erich_Rhoemer (Aug 12, 2015)

*Thank You Everyone !*

TwoWheelsgood, Tallyho, rsinner and the others Thank you so much for your tips and infos !

All your infos were very useful regarding tax exemptions, income expectation and package, and life over there. In some ways all of what you say confirms things I had read and heard about the place regarding figures an advice (privileging salary over package because of the gratuity at the end), etc... 

Thank you so much again for taking the times to share those info.
However I had a meeting with my supervisor and the regional manager this morning that slightly changed the plans, I am actually relocating to Bahrain. It was the other choice and the regional manager dropped the info at random in the middle of the conversation.

So I guess I will have to re-post my questions somewhere else!

But, by any chance, did any of you had any experience over there?
Is it very similar?

Thank you very much again everybody !

All the best and Good continuation in the Mid-East!

-ER


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Bahrain is a bit of a strange choice if you will be looking after EMEA region.
Dubai would be more convenient for traveling in and out of the region - Emirates being the prime carrier with the hub in Dubai.
Point out to your company that traveling expenses would be much less if you were based in Dubai.
Bahrain is nothing like Dubai and is much quieter and smaller (would drive me mad, frankly).
At weekends, the place is full of people coming over the causeway for a good time!
Cheers
Steve


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

The only advantage I can think of for being based in Bahrain is proximity to the US naval base and the soon to be reopened British naval presence. If that's important for your company then I can see why you'd be based in Bahrain.

But otherwise Steve is correct. The UAE is a much better market for a whole host of reasons, especially if your company wants to actively grow in the area. Bahrain is still suffering from protests and economic stagnation due to the instability. 

If it must be Bahrain, it's an ok place. Cheaper than the UAE, has some of the same shops and restaurants but is still a distinctively quieter and provincial city compared to Dubai. Locals are friendlier and it's easier to meet them versus the standoffish UAE locals. It's more relaxed and liberal than Qatar. The expat circles are smaller and tighter. But even so, people have stopped talking about Bahrain in the last few years due to the ongoing tensions between segments of the Bahraini society, although that hasn't affected the expats safety yet (so far).


----------



## Yussif (Jul 27, 2015)

Yea look this is just another vote against Bahrain if it carries any weight, we've got an office there and I couldn't wait to get back to Dubai, good luck whatever you decide to do!


----------



## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

I like Manama, but I'd rather be here.


----------



## Erich_Rhoemer (Aug 12, 2015)

Thanks a lot again for your tips !

The deal is that my company does a lot of its work with Saudi Arabia, and the regional manager is Bahraini. So although they do have a small office in Dubai, the manager planned to have me in their larger office, outside of SA.
No other reason that I could foresee. 
I don't think I'll have much of a say regarding the location, I'm new, very young, and my contract mentioned both locations as a possible relocation so... Bahrain !!!


Best

-ER


----------



## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Erich_Rhoemer said:


> Thanks a lot again for your tips !
> 
> The deal is that my company does a lot of its work with Saudi Arabia, and the regional manager is Bahraini. So although they do have a small office in Dubai, the manager planned to have me in their larger office, outside of SA.
> No other reason that I could foresee.
> ...


Interesting, using a terrorist character as a user name. 

That probably isn't the best start in the Middle East.


----------



## Erich_Rhoemer (Aug 12, 2015)

Wow ! Good catch!
Though the guy is German in the game, not ME.
It's been a long time forum nickname for me (I love that game back then), but you have a point, should probably change that


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> the soon to be reopened British naval presence. I.


You obviously don't know how big it is - it'll be so small Google Maps wont be able to see it and it'll be built by the Bahrainis as the HMG refuses to fund much of any of it.

Bahrain would be nice if it ever got finished and as long as you don;t mind the wafting scent of tear gas at weekends its fine.

In the same ay that Spinneys has a 'pork room' for all those non-permitted products, Bahrain is in effect, the 'pork room' for Saudi Arabia Eastern Province.

It really has little going for itself, other than its location.


----------



## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

When we lived there we used to call Bahrain the "funfair at the end of the pier".

Doubt it has changed that much since 

Although I have to admit we did enjoy our time there - in those days you were an 'expat', rather than now 'just working overseas'

The fun times at British Embassy bar, the BAPCO Club and the occasional dinner out at Trumps (I think that was the name).


----------

