# How much we can save in 6200 SGD/Month



## brvs.narayana

Hi All,
I got an offer in one of the MNC company and they offered 6200 SGD/ month. I have family with one kid.
Initially, I will be travelling to Singapore and after 6 months my wife and kid will come to Singapore.
Could you please tell me how much I can save as Single and Family. I would like lead as middle class life. Please suggest

Regards,
Venkat


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## beppi

The average household income in Singapore is around S$7500 - and locals do not pay rent (which will be your biggest cost factor at S$2000-3500/month).
Thus you will not live a middle class life AND save!


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## BBCWatcher

To be precise, the median resident employed household income from work was S$7870 in 2013. (The average, i.e. mean, is higher.) "Resident" means households headed by a Singapore citizen or permanent resident. "Employed" means at least one household member was working.

This is an odd way to characterize overall household income experiences in Singapore, though. It doesn't include retirees, it doesn't include non-employment income, and it doesn't include foreigners.

All that said, I agree with Beppi that $6200 per month for a household of three is (unfortunately) getting tight in Singapore these days. You can make it work as long as you are very careful about housing. If you're willing to give up what many would consider "middle class" space -- live in a fairly small HDB rental apartment, for example -- then you can probably make it work.

A fairly good rule of thumb is that you ought not spend more than a third of your gross income on housing. If you take a look at what you can get for $2100/month in Singapore it's not that great.


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## simonsays

BBCWatcher said:


> To be precise, the median resident employed household income from work was S$7870 in 2013. (The average, i.e. mean, is higher.) "Resident" means households headed by a Singapore citizen or permanent resident. "Employed" means at least one household member was working.
> 
> This is an odd way to characterize overall household income experiences in Singapore, though. It doesn't include retirees, it doesn't include non-employment income, and it doesn't include foreigners.
> 
> All that said, I agree with Beppi that $6200 per month for a household of three is (unfortunately) getting tight in Singapore these days. You can make it work as long as you are very careful about housing. If you're willing to give up what many would consider "middle class" space -- live in a fairly small HDB rental apartment, for example -- then you can probably make it work.
> 
> A fairly good rule of thumb is that you ought not spend more than a third of your gross income on housing. If you take a look at what you can get for $2100/month in Singapore it's not that great.


plus childcare for children is touching $ 1,000 a month

add in that, and if you want your own apartment, a fair number is $ 3,000 pm ..


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## BBCWatcher

We really have no basis though to give you advice about whether S$6200/month for a family of three is better or worse than your current situation outside Singapore. We don't know your situation outside Singapore, and there's no universally accepted definition of a "middle class" lifestyle, especially when crossing borders. By Singapore standards you'd be within a middle class income range because you'd be in the middle. Not right at the middle -- a bit below -- but comfortably within the middle percentiles. Unfortunately many people in the middle class aren't able to save much, and many of those who do are Singaporeans who save via HDB and CPF. (That S$6200/month does not include compulsory CPF contributions by your employer. Foreigners and newly minted PRs don't get those.)

Anyway, work out a budget for what you think you'd spend based on recent reports and see what you think.


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## incognito6174

*Let's paint a scenario*

Allow me to offer some perspective; as I have been in Singapore for 6+ years and have gone from a starting income of $4K monthly to, well, comfortably more than that. Being an Indian too, I might be able to better understand what you mean by "middle class life". Let's see what your expenses may be in such a scenario:

As a middle class family you want to save some money, so I'd first put 25% of my money straightaway in a savings account and not even touch it for expenses. That's about $1500 saved on pay day.

Rent: Your most expensive item is rental cost for your house. I imagine you would like to live with an entire apartment to your own self. If you plan to rent an HDB rather than a condo (you can Google these), it should cost you anywhere between $2K to $3K. For a middle class lifestyle, I imagine you would not mind staying a bit far from your place of work, so I assume $2.5K as your monthly rent, for a full apartment. You may also share with another family, but an apartment for suit better since you have a kid. Now as a single for 6 months, I suggest you stay in a shared accommodation (Google it up too, many websites available); and this should cost you anywhere between $800 to $1500 (depending on whether it is a master bedroom, common bedroom, location etc.)

Food: Singapore has some of the best eateries and restaurants in Asia. In a middle class lifestyle, I expect you would cook at home, at least for dinner; with a couple of meals out on weekends. I do the same and it costs me $400 per month in groceries/milk/supplies etc. Add to it $100 per meal on weekends. For the three of you, I'd say you can spend $800 and eat comfortably.

Utilities: Electricity, gas and water should cost you about $200-$500 depending on your usage of the air-conditioner etc. A middle-class family might end up spending $350 (for me and my wife, our bill is $250 on average, with light aircon use).

Television, internet and mobile phones: An Indian family is used to watching the television and a subscription with quite a few Indian channels should cost you about $75 per month. Add $50 per month for a very fast internet connection. Plus add $100 for mobile phone rental costs per month for both you and your wife, on an average. That's $225

Commuting: Unless you take the taxi on a regular basis, commuting is about $5 per person on an average on a normal working day. Let's say you use the MRT to travel to work every day; and your family uses the MRT too. On weekends, you'd like to use the taxi to get home after a hearty dinner. I'd budget no more than $300-$400 on this.

Miscellaneous: I like to keep my miscellaneous expenses to less than $500 per month. This includes clothes, appliances, furniture, partying etc. You could do the same. That adds up to about $6225

Now this assumes that (a) your wife won't work and hence does not contribute to the household income and (b) that your kid is not yet at the school-going age. If he/she is, then you must tap into your 15% savings to pay for the school and related expenses. I imagine they would be wiped out in no time. Hope this gives some perspective, on what costs how much roughly and whether or not you can save. Maybe you can negotiate for some of these expenses with your employer.


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## simonsays

incognito6174 said:


> ..


in a nutshell minus sacrifices like sharing an apartment/loss of privacy etc, etc ... not much to save .. right ?

And can you spec in the child of the OP ?

So he can understand from "HIS" perspective .. as that's what I see he is expecting !


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## incognito6174

Absolutely. Having a few hundred dollars left over monthly is hardly any saving. With regards to the child, I'm unsure of the total cost (which school, tuitions, transport, what else?), hence chose not to answer it. But I'm sure there are other threads the OP can refer to. Not sure if he'll get the perspective he is looking for


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## vinaybj

brvs.narayana said:


> Hi All,
> I got an offer in one of the MNC company and they offered 6200 SGD/ month. I have family with one kid.
> Initially, I will be travelling to Singapore and after 6 months my wife and kid will come to Singapore.
> Could you please tell me how much I can save as Single and Family. I would like lead as middle class life. Please suggest
> 
> Regards,
> Venkat


Venkat,

As a single you can save a lot with that salary , but as family it may not be much . 
You need to compare with your Indian salary range and saving for similar expertise.
I know some of the people who are with family in similar range of salary. Definately the experience that you will gain in Singapore will add value to your resume at later stage of career.


Housings for 1 BHK - 2 BHK will be in range of 1700 to 2200.
There is very less supply of 1 BHK houses.
This will be your biggest part of your exps in Singapore.


If your kid is in the age group upto 4 yrs - playgroup or nursery exps can be in range of 180-300 per month.


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## simonsays

vinaybj said:


> Venkat,
> 
> As a single you can save a lot with that salary , but as family it may not be much .
> You need to compare with your Indian salary range and saving for similar expertise.
> I know some of the people who are with family in similar range of salary. Definately the experience that you will gain in Singapore will add value to your resume at later stage of career.
> 
> Housings for 1 BHK - 2 BHK will be in range of 1700 to 2200.
> There is very less supply of 1 BHK houses.
> This will be your biggest part of your exps in Singapore.
> 
> If your kid is in the age group upto 4 yrs - playgroup or nursery exps can be in range of 180-300 per month.


1bhk in Singapore?

Do they even exist ?

Unless you include those illegally sublet units ...


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## vinaybj

ecureilx said:


> 1bhk in Singapore?
> 
> Do they even exist ?
> 
> Unless you include those illegally sublet units ...




Normally 2 BHK house , but owner would have locked one room for his belongings and let out rest of the house . hence it becomes 1 BHK house . But in terms of rent it will be lesser by 5-15% with comparision to 2 BHK house.


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## simonsays

vinaybj said:


> Normally 2 BHK house , but owner would have locked one room for his belongings and let out rest of the house . hence it becomes 1 BHK house . But in terms of rent it will be lesser by 5-15% with comparision to 2 BHK house.


need I tell you that one room locked houses are 100% illegal rental ?

When and if HDB comes checking, you get kicked out with a 24 hour notice, or less, and the landlord 90% of the time looses his apartment, FYI !


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## vinaybj

ecureilx said:


> need I tell you that one room locked houses are 100% illegal rental ?
> 
> When and if HDB comes checking, you get kicked out with a 24 hour notice, or less, and the landlord 90% of the time looses his apartment, FYI !


I was not aware of it!


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## simonsays

vinaybj said:


> I was not aware of it!


ten plus years ago, HDB didn't bother, if a room was locked, master room or common room, and the tenant claimed the land lord lived in the locked room

years ago HDB started taking action, on account of the fact that HDB is state subsidised and with continued complaints of abuse of rental flats etc, and for whole unit rental, landlords have to seek permission/approval, and failure to do that is violation of so many laws.

Now, if HDB suspects the apartment is a locked room rental, they will monitor (and not too hard to find out .. ) and then insist on waiting at your home till the landlord turns up .. and when the game is up, the tenant is told to get out in 24 hour notice, longer if the enforcement officer is nice, and the landlord loses the apartment or gets severely fined

Don't break any law

If it was me, I would innocently ask the landlord why he/she is keeping a room locked ...


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## thewall

ecureilx said:


> ten plus years ago, HDB didn't bother, if a room was locked, master room or common room, and the tenant claimed the land lord lived in the locked room
> 
> years ago HDB started taking action, on account of the fact that HDB is state subsidised and with continued complaints of abuse of rental flats etc, and for whole unit rental, landlords have to seek permission/approval, and failure to do that is violation of so many laws.
> 
> Now, if HDB suspects the apartment is a locked room rental, they will monitor (and not too hard to find out .. ) and then insist on waiting at your home till the landlord turns up .. and when the game is up, the tenant is told to get out in 24 hour notice, longer if the enforcement officer is nice, and the landlord loses the apartment or gets severely fined
> 
> Don't break any law
> 
> If it was me, I would innocently ask the landlord why he/she is keeping a room locked ...




Sorry i m still new, what is this 'locked room' thing.

is it so that Expats are not allowed to rent HDB?


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## simonsays

thewall said:


> Sorry i m still new, what is this 'locked room' thing.
> 
> is it so that Expats are not allowed to rent HDB?


you may start here ..

HDB InfoWEB: Unauthorised Subletting of Flat : Renting A Flat : From Open Market
_
Unauthorised subletting can come in various forms:

Sublet without meeting the eligibility conditions
Meet the eligibility conditions but sublet without obtaining prior HDB approval
Obtained approval but contravened the rules and regulations for subletting
Sublet one or more bedrooms while the flat owners do not live in the flat during the period of subletting

HDB would like to remind all flat owners to comply with its terms and conditions for subletting. They have to ensure that they meet all the eligibility conditions for subletting and obtain HDB’s prior consent to do so. In particular, they should not try to circumvent HDB’s rules by locking up one room and subletting the rest of the flat without physically staying in it._

HDB also conducts regular inspections and spot checks to take enforcement action against unauthorised subletting. In the past 2 years, (from Jan 2013 till Dec 2014), HDB carried out more than 13,000 flat inspections and took action against 24 flat owners for unauthorised subletting. The action includes imposition of a penalty and compulsory acquisition of flats.


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## thewall

ecureilx said:


> you may start here ..
> 
> HDB InfoWEB: Unauthorised Subletting of Flat : Renting A Flat : From Open Market
> _
> Unauthorised subletting can come in various forms:
> 
> Sublet without meeting the eligibility conditions
> Meet the eligibility conditions but sublet without obtaining prior HDB approval
> Obtained approval but contravened the rules and regulations for subletting
> Sublet one or more bedrooms while the flat owners do not live in the flat during the period of subletting
> 
> HDB would like to remind all flat owners to comply with its terms and conditions for subletting. They have to ensure that they meet all the eligibility conditions for subletting and obtain HDB’s prior consent to do so. In particular, they should not try to circumvent HDB’s rules by locking up one room and subletting the rest of the flat without physically staying in it._
> 
> HDB also conducts regular inspections and spot checks to take enforcement action against unauthorised subletting. In the past 2 years, (from Jan 2013 till Dec 2014), HDB carried out more than 13,000 flat inspections and took action against 24 flat owners for unauthorised subletting. The action includes imposition of a penalty and compulsory acquisition of flats.




so if we look for renting complete HDB 2/3Bed, should be 3~5year old


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## lee7stc

Renting a well furnished 1 Bedroom within half hour from city centre would cost you around $1000 per month. Transport by public train around $50 a month. You can allocate around $10 to $25 per day for meals. Catch a movie or go out with friends one weekend per month, maybe you can set aside $30 to $50.


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## simonsays

thewall said:


> so if we look for renting complete HDB 2/3Bed, should be 3~5year old


you should leave out the legality, it is not our responsibility to check about eligibility

If there is a property for rental, ask if that is approved for rental, if the agent or landlord fudges, move on .. the risk is yours to take

or when you move in, you find one room is locked and the agent says the landlord's stuff are there, then you ask again, if the property is approved for rental.

Of course, some tenants will use the chance to bring down rental. But don't forget, without going into details, if HDB 13,000 inspection over 2 years, that means they get more tips than that and also other flags - like the new tenants address being updated elsewhere.

If you travel light and is not risk averse, go for it, just be prepared to be hauled up to the court, if HDB decides to enforce it further, or at the minimum, pack up and leave in less than 24 hours. 



lee7stc said:


> Renting a well furnished 1 Bedroom within half hour from city centre would cost you around $1000 per month. Transport by public train around $50 a month. You can allocate around $10 to $25 per day for meals. Catch a movie or go out with friends one weekend per month, maybe you can set aside $30 to $50.


Singapore is less than 1 hour, from the city center

Then again, where exactly is City Center, in your description of City Center ??


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