# Retirement, thinking ahead



## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

so....I ate too much yesterday and am up in the middle of the night with an upset stomach  So, I turned on my laptop and here I am.

Here is a question that's been rolling around in my head the last couple of months. since I want to be as prepared as possible for when we retire to Spain (still at least 10 years off) the thought of "what will I/we do with our time?" is on my mind at present. Hubby and I both work at home and, weather allowing, we take a brief walk around our pond at lunch time. and I asked him this question last week so that he begins to think about it too. I don't have any lists in my head of things I plan to do when I retire but maybe I should start forming some. I don't know. So, I thought I'd ask the question here and see what you all have to say.

We both love music and are musicians of sorts. Him more so than me. so, one of his answers was "I'm going to find a band to play in." and I could find a group to sing in I suppose. I'd love to do some volunteering too. Years ago I volunteered at our humane society, walking dogs mostly. I could do something like that too. Mostly I see myself doing more reading maybe create a blog. I've had that idea in my head for a while but haven't any time for that right now. But I sure got inspired whilst perusing Alcaina's blog. She's done a great job and if you haven't checked it out, do so. Lots of great information. I of course was drawn immediately to the "thinking of retiring to Spain?" entry and have bookmarked it for future reference. We also plan to travel a bit around Spain, funds allowing.

oh anyway, I guess I'll stop here as I think I've written enough on this for now. I'd love to hear how all you retirees spend your time. I'm all ears :wave:


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

Alcalaina, ack!! that's what I get for posting in the middle of the night. sorry for the misspelling! I should know better too. maybe I should get some more shut eye now? heh.

oh, can I ask a technical question while I'm here? I somehow get subscribed to every thread I either start or reply to. How do I turn that off? I've been manually unsubscribing as I go but wonder how to turn off that default. thanks again!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tobyo said:


> Alcalaina, ack!! that's what I get for posting in the middle of the night. sorry for the misspelling! I should know better too. maybe I should get some more shut eye now? heh.
> 
> oh, can I ask a technical question while I'm here? I somehow get subscribed to every thread I either start or reply to. How do I turn that off? I've been manually unsubscribing as I go but wonder how to turn off that default. thanks again!



If you go to the green line across the top and click on "user cp" you'll find all the posts you've subscribed to. you can click the thing that says unsubscribe or you can go into your profile and request that you dont get notified by e-mail.... I think??!!

the sites actually undergoing some modernisation and a spring clean as we speak, but I dont think that will change ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Jo xxx


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

jojo said:


> If you go to the green line across the top and click on "user cp" you'll find all the posts you've subscribed to. you can click the thing that says unsubscribe or you can go into your profile and request that you dont get notified by e-mail.... I think??!!
> 
> the sites actually undergoing some modernisation and a spring clean as we speak, but I dont think that will change ???????????????????????????????????????????????
> 
> Jo xxx


found it! you're a scholar and a rock star :clap2:

I've been a member of various forums over the years and all are a little different. This one has more bells and whistles than I've seen in a while. Hard to find some things. But, I love all the smilies 

thanks!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tobyo said:


> found it! you're a scholar and a rock star :clap2:
> 
> I've been a member of various forums over the years and all are a little different. This one has more bells and whistles than I've seen in a while. Hard to find some things. But, I love all the smilies
> 
> thanks!


Like I say, the forum is undergoing some changes right now, so it could all look completely different in a minute lol!!!! I'm busy looking round to make sure I understand it all 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

:ranger:Had a scary moment there where I logged on, opened my emails in 5 secs and when I came back the main page was all different!!!!
The flags had disappeared...but, I know where you've hidden them...:behindsofa:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

tobyo said:


> We both love music and are musicians of sorts. Him more so than me. so, one of his answers was "I'm going to find a band to play in." and I could find a group to sing in I suppose.


Thanks for the plug Tobyo.

Please retire to Alcalá and then we can start a band and a community choir. Making music is really the only thing we miss.

Learning the piano was one of the things on my to-do list for retirement - we even bought an electronic one. Sadly the only time it gets used is when my friend's kids come round, as I am far too busy! Maybe someday ...


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Thanks for the plug Tobyo.
> 
> Please retire to Alcalá and then we can start a band and a community choir. Making music is really the only thing we miss.
> 
> Learning the piano was one of the things on my to-do list for retirement - we even bought an electronic one. Sadly the only time it gets used is when my friend's kids come round, as I am far too busy! Maybe someday ...


well, it's very well done and I'm not done perusing it yet, there is so much there 

ah....as much as I enjoyed the slide show of Alcalá, it's much too small of a town for me. but the thought is nice. perhaps we could meet halfway between Alcalá and Málaga and all make music together :violin: So, you're keeping busy in retirement. What's a typical week like for you? If you don't mind sharing that is.

I haven't noticed anything where the forum changes are concerned. oh, except that now my page is bigger and if I want to see what's an inch to the right, I have to scroll. or was that there before? hmmmm.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

tobyo said:


> well, it's very well done and I'm not done perusing it yet, there is so much there
> 
> ah....as much as I enjoyed the slide show of Alcalá, it's much too small of a town for me. but the thought is nice. perhaps we could meet halfway between Alcalá and Málaga and all make music together :violin: So, you're keeping busy in retirement. What's a typical week like for you? If you don't mind sharing that is.
> 
> I haven't noticed anything where the forum changes are concerned. oh, except that now my page is bigger and if I want to see what's an inch to the right, I have to scroll. or was that there before? hmmmm.


You could try Estepona....a somewhat dozy but very 'Spanish' seaside resort.
A typical week for me...well, this week went like this:

Monday: spent at the kennels walking dogs; long walk in the campo with our dog; dinner, reading. 
Tuesday: meeting with local Foreigners Department to discuss various issues relating to a fundraising meeting we're organising early next year; coffee in town with friends; walking dog in the foothills of the Sierra Bermeja;evening choral concert in a church in town; drinks in local bar with friends afterwards;
Wednesday: friend popped in for coffee and chat; long walk with dog in the stunning scenery of Parque de los Pedregales; coffee by the pool; evening spent teaching Spanish friend English
Thursday: meeting in Town Hall with important politicians to discuss issues relating to ADANA; coffee in town with friends; lovely walk along seafront afterwards;
Friday: meeting in cafe with local Councillor to discuss various issues, monthly ADANA coffee morning in Estepona, relaxing afternoon reading by pool.
Tomorrow: relaxing morning, friends will pop in for coffee perhaps; evening concert by Municipal Band.

There are the usual things....watching tv -we are football fans and watch several matches weekly -shopping, pottering about and so on. We try to eat out fairly regularly and get regular and frequent visits from family and friends from the UK.
So...nothing stupendously exciting but for us a happy way of life, relaxed but with useful activities to keep us occupied.


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

thanks! we've got our sights on Málaga at the moment tho other cities have come up in discussion (Madrid because I know it so well, Barcelona, Valencia). but perhaps we could check out Estepona when we're there next time. 

I think it just boils down to the things that interest us and finding those opportunities. It's finding the opportunities that will be challenging I think. Thanks for your input, much appreciated! your life sounds very interesting


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

tobyo said:


> well, it's very well done and I'm not done perusing it yet, there is so much there
> 
> ah....as much as I enjoyed the slide show of Alcalá, it's much too small of a town for me. but the thought is nice. perhaps we could meet halfway between Alcalá and Málaga and all make music together :violin: So, you're keeping busy in retirement. What's a typical week like for you? If you don't mind sharing that is.


Jimenato's bar is halfway between Alcalá and Málaga city and they are musicians too, so you never know! The problem is that although it´s less than 20 km away as the vulture flies, it´s an hour and a half by road. Someone put a load of mountains in the way. 

My typical day:
Get up when the sun comes into the bedroom window (about 9 am at the moment).

Have breakfast, read newspapers online, check email, Facebook and Expat Forum - that can take between one and two hours.

Do a bit of housework, walk up to the village square, buy fresh produce and have a cafe con leche in the bar.

Have a light lunch then do an hour's Spanish (audio exercises at the moment but I also do a lot of translating) then sit on the terrace and read till the sun goes behind the cliff (4 pm in midwinter). 

Half an hour on the rowing machine in a pathetic attempt to keep fit.

Do some writing, painting or drawing until dinner - OH and I take turns to cook. Check emails etc again.

From about 9 pm we watch downloaded movies or Spanish TV (especially if Barcelona is playing). We go out a couple of times a week and meet friends for a beer or two. Bedtime is around 1 am.

Don't know where the time goes really!


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

you made my hubby smile  I guess we'll see huh?

and your day sounds divine......sounds almost exactly like I picture it for myself. thanks for sharing!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I took early retirement in UK as my OH is/was a very successful financial manager and then we had a baby and decided we couldn't bring him up in an increasingly violent British society with crumbling moral standards (that's the serious bit over with) so here is our typical week (now that I have been bundled unceremoniously out of retirement):
Monday wake up anywhere between 6 and 8 depending on the little one, OH cleans her parents 3 bathrooms in the morning and I do lesson prep for the afternoon lessons. Afternoon I give English lessons to groups of 10 yr olds and 7 yr olds. Armed with freshly earned lucre I descend on the shops to get some fresh produce and milk (I always have to buy milk, thinking of buying a cow) and go home. The boy has his evening meal and I cook ours (am a trained chef so have no excuse). The boy has stories which we take in turn to read to him and then it's bed for him and we have time for ourselves with a meal, some TV (usually a downloaded movie), some wine and then bed.
Tuesday, OH goes to a mother and toddler group for the morning where the boy has the opportunity to bite his peers and I have the same as Monday but today I teach 17 yr olds who are far more rewarding as they seem to want to learn English, I buy some milk and maybe a week's supply of catfood and go home where Monday's evening replicates itself, although I endevour to cook something different.
Wednesday, lessons for 10 yr olds today and some adults (and today is the day when it is obvious that 10 yr olds are sponges and adults are like reinforced steel doors. I buy some milk and fresh things and then go home for a repeat performance, although we try to eat healthily (ie salad stuff) on this day, we rarely succeed.
Thursday, OH off to another mother and toddler group and I teach a mix of teens and young kids but today I don't get home untilo after the boy is in bed and OH prepares the meal. Thius is my best day so far as I am not cooking after teaching. I get to watch some crap TV while she is cooking and then we eat, talk, sup some wine and watch more crap TV. And so to bed.
Friday has become a mightily confusing day for my putrified brain. When I worked full time it was Monday to Friday. Now I work part-time but Monday to Thursday, so my brain refuses to accept that today is Friday and willo remain convinced it is Saturday until Sunday. I spend the day doing lesson prep for next week and OH visits friends (sometimes they all come here) who also hav eyoung children. OH and the boy come home and I spend some time with the boy playing football (this is surely why men want boys??? (oh no, I remember, it's for Scalextirics) - although my two girls were pretty good at football too) then we endeavour to eat our meal with him and we do the other stuff, baths and stories, bed and TV.
Saturday is shopping day and family day so we spend most if not all of the day together. Maybe the beach (well usually the beach even now) which the boy adores, or a trip to Malaga and Plaza Mayor so he can watch the planes flying low overhead. 
Sunday we will be seeing parents in a social capacity, either mine or the outlaws. I suddenly realise it isn't Monday so I can relax. Always a movie Sunday night, early bed to do some catchup reading and thats the week done.

My God what a boring post.


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

not boring at all!! but I've only just gotten to read only part of your post (keep getting interrupted...). your life sounds very interesting too. you are giving me ideas and I so appreciate that!!  thanks so much thrax.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

tobyo

It's something you touched on in earlier threads you have started or contributed to, but you do need to look at the visa situation for Americans wanting to retire to Spain. OK, the Bill Gates of this world won't have much of a problem getting a suitable visa to live in Spain, but the rest of us don't have fat bank accounts to draw on. As it has been said before, most of the regulars here are from UK or other EU countries, or are married to one, and they have freedom to live, work and retire just about anywhere in Europe, with a minimum of red tape. So for them, even if they don't have millions stashed away in their bank accounts, they can live a frugal yet comfortable life relying on pensions and modest investment, supplemented by some casual work. This option isn't open to you, as it's most unlikely you get a long-stay visa without a 'comfortable' and 'adequate' unearned income. How much that is, or will be when you come to retire, is unspecified and depends on personal factors, but it's very likely to be a lot higher than what a 'frugal' couple live on. And you cannot supplement your income by working, even online for a business based outside Spain - all counts as working and is illegal. I don't know what your projected financial resources will be in 10 years' time, but a normal Social Security pension income alone is unlikely to be enough. Alternative is to have plenty of savings - comfortable six-figure sum - which can generate income and you can draw out the capital where needed. When selling your real estate and other holdings in US, you may generate enough savings. 

Non-EU citizens get very frustrated at what they see as artificially high barriers erected against their desire to relocate, but EU states claim that they have enough problems supporting their citizens and other legal residents in these tough times and don't want to add to the number of people who are 'just managing' - i.e. without substantial disposable income to benefit the host country in terms of job creation and substantial tax take. So they can, and do set, quite high financial requirements to weed out all but the affluent. 

There are relatively few retired US expats in Spain, and the main reason for it is the difficulty of getting a visa. There are some who alternate between US and Spain every three months - the maximum they are allowed to stay without a visa.

So I respectfully suggest you make a thorough investigation of visa requirements for Spain and your possible future financial resources (boring and tedious it may be), as well as thinking about your lifestyle choices.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

tobyo said:


> not boring at all!! but I've only just gotten to read only part of your post (keep getting interrupted...). your life sounds very interesting too. you are giving me ideas and I so appreciate that!!  thanks so much thrax.


You are very welcome


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

Joppa said:


> So I respectfully suggest you make a thorough investigation of visa requirements for Spain and your possible future financial resources (boring and tedious it may be), as well as thinking about your lifestyle choices.


I do believe your comment was well-intentioned. however, I was taken quite aback as well by your reply. How do you know I'm not making a thorough investigation of visa requirements?? Because of my lack of questions of the same? It appears that you assume that I'm not doing this. If I'm wrong, I will apologize in advance. What I was looking for was what retirees do with their time but I guess I could find another retirement forum to ask this, one where I don't feel very small reading responses like this. and you didn't respond to my query at all.

Six figures? Would you care to extrapolate on that number? that could be anywhere between $100,000 and $999,999 couldn't it? So far, I have not found anything that tells me what that threshold might be when I get to the point of applying for this Visa. You're right, we're not all Bill Gates but someone who has worked hard her entire life and has built up savings and will get social security income (as long as it's still available when I retire) surely just MIGHT have a chance to live in a country that she fell in love with as a student many moons ago? If not, what's the point of trying? 

Thanks to all of you that took the time to give me food for thought. and I just noticed that this is a forum for people already living in Spain, not me who just wants to. So, I guess I really don't belong here anyway. I do appreciate the input I have gotten from many of you. I'll go back to lurking now.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Please, please don't misinterpret my intentions. My contribution was meant to help you - and others who are thinking along the same lines - to take into account factors that can determine whether your dream can become reality or will likely to stay as a dream. It's meant as a practical contribution. If you are already doing it, fine. If you've found my comment. offensive, I can only apologise. 

As for six-figure sum, it's meant as an example but from what I know of how immigration people think these days, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable assumption. In UK, there are no longer retirement visas as such and intending migrants without work visa are expected to have at least £200,000 ($320,000) in cash savings plus steady pension and investment income at least equal to natioanl average salary of £26,000 ($41,000) a year, and they are expected to invest sizeable sum into UK economy. While Spain may have differenty criteria, the thinking behind can't be a million miles apart..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tobyo said:


> I do believe your comment was well-intentioned. however, I was taken quite aback as well by your reply. How do you know I'm not making a thorough investigation of visa requirements?? Because of my lack of questions of the same? It appears that you assume that I'm not doing this. If I'm wrong, I will apologize in advance. What I was looking for was what retirees do with their time but I guess I could find another retirement forum to ask this, one where I don't feel very small reading responses like this. and you didn't respond to my query at all.
> 
> *Six figures? Would you care to extrapolate on that number? that could be anywhere between $100,000 and $999,999 couldn't it? So far, I have not found anything that tells me what that threshold might be *when I get to the point of applying for this Visa. You're right, we're not all Bill Gates but someone who has worked hard her entire life and has built up savings and will get social security income (as long as it's still available when I retire) surely just MIGHT have a chance to live in a country that she fell in love with as a student many moons ago? If not, what's the point of trying?
> 
> Thanks to all of you that took the time to give me food for thought. and I just noticed that this is a forum for people already living in Spain, not me who just wants to. So, I guess I really don't belong here anyway. I do appreciate the input I have gotten from many of you. I'll go back to lurking now.


I think this is partly the problem - no-one seems to know what the actual figure is or indeed will be by the time you apply - but from what we have heard it seems to vary depending upon who is processing the application (as so much seems to is Spain) - and you can bet it won't be 'frugal'. The only thing I have ever seen was on another forum and that said for a retirement visa you need to show proof of pension or state income plus proof of at least another 10,000 euros income a year + I think another 1500 a year for each dependent - and that's over & above the pension - so not a 'frugal' amount

and of course you belong here - it's for people wanting to move here too - many of us came for advice before we moved & stuck around to pass on our help to people like you

please stick around & please keep posting - let us know what you find out about requirements - if we had more US citizens here who had been through the resident visa process, then we'd be able to offer more concrete advice to future posters

besides - you're part of the family now


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

*We never get bored!*

Hi there,

We retired to Spain in January, it was the best thing we have ever done!
We have met some wonderful people and now have a large circle of friends with whom we have a fantastic social life.

We meet for lunch either in restaurants or each others homes,we have coffee mornings, beach get togethers and also fantastic house parties.

We have been busy sorting out our villa and also the garden( 6 acres) so there is always something to do.

Friends in the UK ask us if we get bored! no way, there is always something to do and with the better weather and such a large country to explore so i don't think that will ever happen!

Have not even had time to read a book since we arrived here!:clap2:


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> besides - you're part of the family now


I am??? well hot damn!! wait, will I get in trouble for posting a bad word? 

I did find something but it's on my other computer so will post the link later. But basically what it said was.....wait, let me just post the link because with my memory these days I will likely get it wrong!

thanks so much!


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Please, please don't misinterpret my intentions. My contribution was meant to help you - and others who are thinking along the same lines - to take into account factors that can determine whether your dream can become reality or will likely to stay as a dream. It's meant as a practical contribution. If you are already doing it, fine. If you've found my comment. offensive, I can only apologise.
> 
> As for six-figure sum, it's meant as an example but from what I know of how immigration people think these days, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable assumption. In UK, there are no longer retirement visas as such and intending migrants without work visa are expected to have at least £200,000 ($320,000) in cash savings plus steady pension and investment income at least equal to natioanl average salary of £26,000 ($41,000) a year, and they are expected to invest sizeable sum into UK economy. While Spain may have differenty criteria, the thinking behind can't be a million miles apart..


okay, okay, I get it now! it was just so long-winded and sooooooooo not what I was looking for. but thanks for this explanation. and, yes, I've already been doing the research and it IS very daunting indeed!! but not impossible. and with the way things are going in the world right now, chances are good we won't have enough money to retire where we want. and I can't think of anything more depressing than that  just remains to be seen I guess. I'll post what I found later.

thank you!!


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

I wonder if my rich friend in Spain can help me get in?  Hey, a girl's got to fulfill her dream somehow doesn't she? he he. couldn't hurt to ask! and then he may not be my friend any longer. hmmmm, such a dilemma! okay, back later with some info.


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

here is what I found w/regard to a dollar threshold that retirees have to have to obtain the retiree visa. Note that this is not from a consulate website, it's a woman's website who also wrote a book "Living abroad in Spain". I couldn't find an actual dollar amount at the Consulado's Chicago website. First the link to this website:

Moving to Spain

and the paragraph regarding a dollar threshold(ok, so I included two more paragraphs):



> If you’re a retiree applying on the related visa, you’ll have to add an official form certifying that you receive social security and stating its monthly amount. Additionally, add proof of any other source of income that you might have—and that includes all properties in Spain. Also submit an official document from the company that provides your medical insurance guaranteeing continual coverage while you’re in Spain.
> 
> Those applying as investors or as the self-employed must also have their doctors add to the letters that they are healthy enough to do the work proposed. A copy of the solicitud de permiso de trabajo (work authorization application) should have been filed previously with the Ministry of Labor in Spain—both an original and a copy of that should be included. The last form should document proof of the medical coverage to be received while in Spain.
> 
> If the residence visa that you’re after is for non-lucrative purposes, you’ll have to offer proof that you have enough money to live on while in Spain. *More specifically, you must submit bank account statements, investment certificates, and any other proof of funds that amounts to no less than $75,000 annually.* If you own stock or partnerships in any companies, the Spanish government requires assurance that you do not make money from direct labor in those companies.


There is TONS to do to apply for this Visa. I figured out that since I live in Minnesota, I would go to the Chicago consulate. I'm not done reading yet but so far I learned that we must appear in person as one requirement. so hubby says "cool, we can take the train!"  gotta love him. Here is "my" consulate's website:

Consulado de España en Chicago

and then this page chock full of Visa info:

Consulado de España en Chicago

All forms must be in Spanish. whew, good thing I know Spanish! 


> REQUIREMENTS TO APPLY FOR A VISA
> 
> Applicants in this Consulate must have permanent residence status in the following States of the USA: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, and Wisconsin.
> You cannot request the visa in Spain.
> ...


pretty sure they meant "presented" and not "resented". two totally different meanings 

okay, I think that's it for now.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tobyo said:


> I am??? well hot damn!! wait, will I get in trouble for posting a bad word?
> 
> I did find something but it's on my other computer so will post the link later. But basically what it said was.....wait, let me just post the link because with my memory these days I will likely get it wrong!
> 
> thanks so much!


bad words are ** out by the software sweary filter 

we even added some Spanish words to the filter a while ago, so you can't say a lot of them either, such as **** & *********


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

tobyo said:


> here is what I found w/regard to a dollar threshold that retirees have to have to obtain the retiree visa. Note that this is not from a consulate website, it's a woman's website who also wrote a book "Living abroad in Spain". I couldn't find an actual dollar amount at the Consulado's Chicago website. First the link to this website:
> 
> Moving to Spain
> 
> ...


Glad to see we are finally getting some info about this.
Thanks!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Glad to see we are finally getting some info about this.
> Thanks!


that figure is pretty high isn't it?

and tbh we have that info on here already for a _non-lucrative_ visa Spain Visas, Permits and Immigration

surely the _retirement _ visa is different - it's _that_ visa I've never been able to get any concrete info on


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> that figure is pretty high isn't it?
> 
> and tbh we have that info on here already for a _non-lucrative_ visa Spain Visas, Permits and Immigration
> 
> surely the _retirement _ visa is different - it's _that_ visa I've never been able to get any concrete info on


I don't think there is any. Retirement visa for non-EEA citizens is the responsibility of each individual state (there are no EU rules), and they can put up any requirement they like. What people often find is that there is no uniform policy between consulates even within the same country, and success for someone at one consulate doesn't mean success for another at others, even with almost identical conditions. It sounds as though the approval is at the whim of the officer dealing with your case, and they don't have to justify their decision. It has been known for applications to fail for the flimsiest of reasons. This is something common in bureaucracy among Southern Mediterranean countries - Italy, France and Spain - those civil servants don't seem to work to nationally agreed and published rules, they don't seem to be answerable to anyone and can do more-or-less what they like with complete immunity. The key is never to be confrontational, and work with the system. Then, if they feel like it, they may just issue you the visa.

What I said earlier still holds. Spain - and other countries - only want people who will, or are likely to , bring positive economic benefit to the host country by spending lots of money and creating local jobs. They just don't want those who are or can only be frugal, with limited means, who will just use local services without making positive contribution economically. They have enough locals on the breadline to support, plus other EEA citizens with legal right to be there. Often your application is referred to the municipality where you want to reside, for their opinion and clearance, which brings another unknown factor into the equation.

Frankly I do feel for would-be migrants from outside EEA who have genuine reasons to want to be in Spain, but are faced with innumerable obstacles to achieve their ambition.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> bad words are ** out by the software sweary filter
> 
> we even added some Spanish words to the filter a while ago, so you can't say a lot of them either, such as **** & *********


Ah the software sweary filter...which has decided that a fairly large town on the east coast of the UK is obscene.....
Whilst I have found it a rather dreary, uninspiring place and am happy not to have been obliged to spend much time there, the inhabitants of S****horpe may have different views........


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Joppa said:


> I don't think there is any. Retirement visa for non-EEA citizens is the responsibility of each individual state (there are no EU rules), and they can put up any requirement they like. What people often find is that there is no uniform policy between consulates even within the same country, and success for someone at one consulate doesn't mean success for another at others, even with almost identical conditions. It sounds as though the approval is at the whim of the officer dealing with your case, and they don't have to justify their decision. It has been known for applications to fail for the flimsiest of reasons. This is something common in bureaucracy among Southern Mediterranean countries - Italy, France and Spain - those civil servants don't seem to work to nationally agreed and published rules, they don't seem to be answerable to anyone and can do more-or-less what they like with complete immunity. The key is never to be confrontational, and work with the system. Then, if they feel like it, they may just issue you the visa.
> 
> What I said earlier still holds. Spain - and other countries - only want people who will, or are likely to , bring positive economic benefit to the host country by spending lots of money and creating local jobs. They just don't want those who are or can only be frugal, with limited means, who will just use local services without making positive contribution economically. They have enough locals on the breadline to support, plus other EEA citizens with legal right to be there. Often your application is referred to the municipality where you want to reside, for their opinion and clearance, which brings another unknown factor into the equation.
> 
> Frankly I do feel for would-be migrants from outside EEA who have genuine reasons to want to be in Spain, but are faced with innumerable obstacles to achieve their ambition.


I do agree with all you say. In these times it is understandable that any state will wish to protect its own citizens which is of course its duty. When I applied for residency in the Czech Republic I had to submit proof that I had an income of a certain amount I can't remember how much but I do remember being surprised at the level, much higher than that mentioned above. No doubt that was the reason why there were so few retirees in the CR: most immigrants had jobs.
To be honest, our own contribution to the Spanish economy is negligible. Our main outgoing is a fairly high rent which goes directly to Austria. We do use local services and shops but our lifestyle is quite subdued compared to that we enjoyed in the UK and in the CR where the £/koruna exchange rate was good for most of the time we lived there. 
I have said many times on this forum that if there are jobs available they should go first to Spanish nationals, unless they cannot be filled by such people. Most EU member states have restrictions on the number of job-seeking immigrants from other EU states and maybe Spain should consider this....
The whole idea of free movement whether for work or other reasons has implications that obviously weren't thought of at the time of drawing up the Bruges Treaty. Most Brits who have made the consumer choice - because that's what it is - to live in Spain are not wealthy people. We certainly aren't. Many of those who relocated to Spain did so because of what was then a very pleasant, relaxed lifestyle with the huge bonus of it being comparatively less expensive than other warm, sunny destinations. This huge influx and the accompanying construction boom -now bust - played a large part in Spain's current woes.
There are only a few countries in the world whose more mature citizens can make the consumer choice of deciding where to spend their retirement. They are of course those in the 'western' world.
It's sad but true that Spain cannot afford to encourage this type of immigration which as you rightly point out does little to benefit the country. 
So...the logical conclusion is to set income or capital limits for anyone wishing to relocate to Spain or any other country for that matter. 
We do that to some extent in the UK -( 'Pleased to see you, Mr. Abramovich, Sir')
and maybe we'll see this kind of immigration for non-job-seekers restricted across the EU.
So much for 'internationalism'...but then like so many fine-sounding abstractions, it flounders against the rocks of real-life experience.
Although able to support ourselves and owning property in Canada, as well as having close relatives there,we would have had problems seeking residency for retirement and would most likely have had to cross the US border and back every six months. 
As for retiring to the U.S. fugeddaboudit....


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> In these times it is understandable that any state will wish to protect its own citizens which is of course its duty.


whew! thank goodness I'm not applying for it _now_ for I surely would be rejected!

and that $75k is hard to understand, at least from where I sit. How do they figure investment income I wonder? (I know nobody knows, just thinking out loud....) So, I calculated our projected social security income and if I have about $400k in investments we'd be able to live for about 10 years?? I just divided the $400k by the remainder of the $75k after subtracting social security. This is just my silly guess. so then, do we have to leave after 10 years? I know, silly huh? but it's hard to wrap one's mind around that figure. 

and oh yea, I noticed this on the consulate's website:



> FOR INFORMATION ON VISA APPLICATION CONSULT WEB PAGE. *NO ADDITIONAL INFORMATION PROVIDED BY TELEPHONE OR MAIL!*


probably why I never got an answer to my email. just saw this yesterday 

help me out here. EEA? European Economic Area? haven't seen that acronym before.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

tobyo said:


> probably why I never got an answer to my email. just saw this yesterday.


They don't want to make public what criteria they use to screen applications, so that they retain maximum discretion to reject them.



> help me out here. EEA? European Economic Area? haven't seen that acronym before.


Its European Union (EU) plus some other countries that have bilateral agreements with it, such as Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. While Switzerland is neither part of EU nor EEA, it's treated the same for most visa/work purposes.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

tobyo said:


> whew! thank goodness I'm not applying for it _now_ for I surely would be rejected!
> 
> and that $75k is hard to understand, at least from where I sit. How do they figure investment income I wonder? (I know nobody knows, just thinking out loud....) So, I calculated our projected social security income and if I have about $400k in investments we'd be able to live for about 10 years?? I just divided the $400k by the remainder of the $75k after subtracting social security. This is just my silly guess. so then, do we have to leave after 10 years? I know, silly huh? but it's hard to wrap one's mind around that figure.
> 
> ...


Well, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t try. And just to tempt you....this is December in Southern Spain. Walking in the countryside by a still hall-full river, in t-shirt. It must have been over 27C.


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

well how lovely!! you better believe I'm going to try!! and I'm mostly kidding about my friend in Spain. tho I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask if he had any pull. 

and this all made me think that as much as I hate it, I probably should have a plan B in place just in case those nice consulate people turn me down.

but back to the weather. today was our third snowfall and guess who ran her car into a tree? omg...I'm afraid to go to sleep!!! for fear of seeing that tree come at me in my nightmares  I am sooooooooooooooo ready to leave this crappy weather behind me. I'm not sure I'm going to last 10 more winters. the good news is that I am fine. I was going nice and slow, alas, I couldn't steer my way out of it fast enough and next thing I knew I was crashing into a tree. heavy, heavy, heavy sigh. so, yea, I love your picture!! especially tonight. thank you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

speaking of cars.........our local weather guy Meteoxabia took this picture yesterday & put it on FB












and no, it wasn't my car!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

tobyo said:


> well how lovely!! you better believe I'm going to try!! and I'm mostly kidding about my friend in Spain. tho I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask if he had any pull.
> 
> and this all made me think that as much as I hate it, I probably should have a plan B in place just in case those nice consulate people turn me down.
> 
> but back to the weather. today was our third snowfall and guess who ran her car into a tree? omg...I'm afraid to go to sleep!!! for fear of seeing that tree come at me in my nightmares  I am sooooooooooooooo ready to leave this crappy weather behind me. I'm not sure I'm going to last 10 more winters. the good news is that I am fine. I was going nice and slow, alas, I couldn't steer my way out of it fast enough and next thing I knew I was crashing into a tree. heavy, heavy, heavy sigh. so, yea, I love your picture!! especially tonight. thank you.



We bought a place in the Ontario Valley, in a tiny rural community, with a view to retiring there.
It was a really nice place, a restored nineteenth century woollen mill, but one visit in the middle of a very harsh winter put us off - that and the fact that Canada, whilst outwardly a relaxed, tolerant place, has an attitude to some types of non- conformity that reminds me of the iron fist in the velvet glove...
I decided that temperature swings of 80 C -from 40C in summer to -40C with wind chill in winter -would finish me off sooner than hoped for.
It was in many ways a beautiful location: real cowboy country with stone-built small settlements. But even wearing a black Tshirt rather than one with a moose head or large flower on it attracted suspicious stares from the dour locals.
Prague was cold too...not like Canada but cold enough. Unlike rural Ontario, snow in Prague quickly turned into a morass of thick yellow and grey slush. Not pretty.
I sympathise with your car accident. My cousin, who lives in the Ottawa Valley, is constantly experiencing what she calls 'fender benders' in the winter.
I am told that our village has never known frost, let alone snow.


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## tobyo (Jul 16, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> We bought a place in the Ontario Valley, in a tiny rural community, with a view to retiring there.
> It was a really nice place, a restored nineteenth century woollen mill, but one visit in the middle of a very harsh winter put us off - that and the fact that Canada, whilst outwardly a relaxed, tolerant place, has an attitude to some types of non- conformity that reminds me of the iron fist in the velvet glove...
> I decided that temperature swings of 80 C -from 40C in summer to -40C with wind chill in winter -would finish me off sooner than hoped for.
> It was in many ways a beautiful location: real cowboy country with stone-built small settlements. But even wearing a black Tshirt rather than one with a moose head or large flower on it attracted suspicious stares from the dour locals.
> ...


thanks. I've been pretty lucky in that in nearly 20 years here in the frozen tundra, I have not had a winter accident (well, really, NO accidents but am making a point). many close calls and even a 360 degree spin, but never hit anything until yesterday. really makes me NOT want to drive in the snow any more!! until I can get the heck out of here!!! I thought last winter would do me in what with the record snowfall and snowbanks up the wazoo for about 5 months. yes, 5 months with snow cover last winter!! ah.....but today is the day to be grateful. I have much to be thankful for. all the people who stopped to ensure I was okay. Joe, the first guy that stopped who hung out w/me in the cold and snow until my friend arrived to collect me (and the dinner I was picking up); the fact that I hit that tree at an angle such that the front end wasn't as mangled as it could have been, that there were no other cars involved and that nobody was in my car with me and my friend's husband who drove me home, about 60 miles roundtrip so about an hour of his time. and I'm thankful I don't have to go out in the weather to do my job. yes, much to be thankful for.

sorry....rambling! and slightly off topic. off to surf the intertubes since I can't seem to sleep in. yawn.....gotta work on my Plan B. :focus:


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