# Private health insurance before carte vitale



## philthompson23

Hi all,

does anyone have any good suggestions for private healthcare to cover the period from arriving in france to getting the carte vitale? I imagine it’ll take at least 3 months for myself to get the card. My wife is French so maybe she can get it quicker. Regardless we’re going to need cover that we could cancel as soon as in the system. Ideas?


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## Peter_E

Health Insurance for Foreign Residents in France EFE(np) - ACS


Comprehensive health insurance for foreigners living in France from 3 to 12 months. Three different options to suit your needs and budget. Click here.




www.acs-ami.com


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## drexfrance

I hope I'll be forgiven for re-animating a possibly-moribund thread. (I'm not the OP, I'm a USian applying for my first long-stay visa.)

Thanks for the link. The website's PDF booklet for this coverage states: 

"However, waiting periods shall apply to the following benefits: 

"Medical fees related to a sickness (except for in-patient care): 8 days from the effective date of coverage.

"Medical fees related to a hospitalisation: 45 days from the effective date of cover for coverage from 7 to 12 months, 30 days for coverage from 4 to 6 months and 8 days for coverage from 1 to 3 months.

"Any illness discovered during the waiting periods cannot be taken into charge.

"Fees related to contraception, abortion, pregnancy and maternity are covered only after 12 continuous months of subscription."

That doesn't seem to align with: 

"'Le contrat d'assurance souscrit par l'étranger ou par l'hébergeant pour le compte de celui-ci doit couvrir, à hauteur d'un montant minimum fixé à 30 000 euros, l'ensemble des dépenses médicales et hospitalières, y compris d'aide sociale, susceptibles d'être engagées pendant toute la durée du séjour en France."

(The insurance contract ... must cover, up to a minimum amount set at 30,000 euros, all medical and hospital expenses, including social assistance, likely to be incurred throughout the duration of the stay in France.)

This seems like it would be a problem for visa qualification - and also for anyone who actually needed such coverage. 

It seems odd that a company claiming to offer coverage for foreigners in France would attach limitations that seem to contradict visa requirements. 

Am I missing something here? Would this pass muster with the visa-review crew?

Thanks!


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## Peter_E

drexfrance said:


> I hope I'll be forgiven for re-animating a possibly-moribund thread. (I'm not the OP, I'm a USian applying for my first long-stay visa.)
> 
> Thanks for the link. The website's PDF booklet for this coverage states:
> 
> "However, waiting periods shall apply to the following benefits:
> 
> "Medical fees related to a sickness (except for in-patient care): 8 days from the effective date of coverage.
> 
> "Medical fees related to a hospitalisation: 45 days from the effective date of cover for coverage from 7 to 12 months, 30 days for coverage from 4 to 6 months and 8 days for coverage from 1 to 3 months.
> 
> "Any illness discovered during the waiting periods cannot be taken into charge.
> 
> "Fees related to contraception, abortion, pregnancy and maternity are covered only after 12 continuous months of subscription."
> 
> That doesn't seem to align with:
> 
> "'Le contrat d'assurance souscrit par l'étranger ou par l'hébergeant pour le compte de celui-ci doit couvrir, à hauteur d'un montant minimum fixé à 30 000 euros, l'ensemble des dépenses médicales et hospitalières, y compris d'aide sociale, susceptibles d'être engagées pendant toute la durée du séjour en France."
> 
> (The insurance contract ... must cover, up to a minimum amount set at 30,000 euros, all medical and hospital expenses, including social assistance, likely to be incurred throughout the duration of the stay in France.)
> 
> This seems like it would be a problem for visa qualification - and also for anyone who actually needed such coverage.
> 
> It seems odd that a company claiming to offer coverage for foreigners in France would attach limitations that seem to contradict visa requirements.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Would this pass muster with the visa-review crew?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi. I am not sure. I have the policy, and they have paid out for my surgery costs without any fuss. I do not need the policy for a visa. I have the policy since if you do not register on the French health system, and not a holder of an S1, and you have income subject to social charges, the social charges are reduced by approximately 10% which in my case is more than the cost of the policy.


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## Crabtree

So the policy is not suitable for a visa as a visa requires a policy to cover all medical costs from Day 1 
If you are American try AARO or perhaps search Schengen Visa Health Cover


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## drexfrance

I've been looking through several health insurance threads here on Expat Forum and have lots of leads - so thanks for that! 

My VFS required-docs list says, "Travel health insurance certificate issued by the insurance company ... valid in France for the whole stay."

I assume "the whole stay" means that the visa center people want at least a year of coverage. 

But I keep running into insurance providers online, including some suggested in this forum, who don't seem to write full-year policies. In a couple of cases, I could get 364 days, but not 365!

And yet people here MUST have used those policies to get their visas. 

How is that possible?

Thanks again!


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## BackinFrance

I don't think travel policies are acceptable for those applying for a long stay visitor visa for more than one year except if they have a job to come to, or a spouse through whom they can be attacked to the French system, etc. That is to say in special circumstances. Otherwise the visa requires that you have private cover for a full year.

There have been suitable policies mentioned on this forum,but I could not point you to them. Some are quite old, but many are not in threads that have titles about health cover or visas.


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## Clic Clac

drexfrance said:


> In a couple of cases, I could get 364 days, but not 365!


Just wait another 15 months. 
2024 is a leap year. 🤔🙈


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## Bevdeforges

Technically speaking, you need an "expat" policy, not a "travel" one. Though as I understand it, the categorization of the policy by the insurer may or may not be relevant. Key thing is that it's not supposed to have a "high deductible" and must have repatriation cover (though that is kind of irrelevant for American citizens, given the lack of any sort of national cover over there). One approach is to ask the insurance agency specifically for a policy to meet visa requirements. Or take a look at the AARO standard policies. I know folks complain that they are "expensive" (i.e. a few thousand dollars for a full year of coverage, depending on your age), but that's the level of cover that is expected. Once you have been here for 3 months, you can register for the national plan (and probably "should" plan on getting a decent mutuelle to supplement that) - so if you can find cover that you can cancel mid-year you may want to consider that option.


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## drexfrance

Thanks, Bev! On the basis of your recommendation I'm looking for "Schengen visa" policies. I see some, though only a few allow purchase of a full year in advance. Spot on, they're into the thousands. But nobody said that moving to France would be cheap.


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## Bevdeforges

Be careful of anything calling itself a "Schengen visa" policy. It may just be an error in terminology, but technically a "Schengen visa" is a short-stay (i.e. tourist) visa for any period of time up to 90 days. The 90 day stamp in the passport thing that American, Canadian and other tourists get is technically a "Schengen visa." For those from countries that don't make you eligible for the stamp in the passport variety, they have to apply for a Schengen visa to make a tourist visit to Europe.


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## GraceS

Oh yes, I remember that time frame stumbling block when I was buying the required visa medical insurance last year. Here's how I solved it:

1. Decided to buy a "Patriot International" policy offered by IMG, and purchased through the Insubuy website .
I chose this policy because it had decent reviews/reputation, was cancellable with refund if not needed the whole year, covered Covid, and covered acute onset of pre-existing conditions. 

2. On the Insubuy website, filled out the first two screens of info, including the one-year policy length of Jan 15, 2022 to Jan 15, 2023. Clicked to advance the form, but got the message that the time length was too long. Changed Jan 15, 2023 to Jan 14, 2023, clicked to advance the screen, and suddenly, there was my one-year, 365-day coverage. Continued through to purchase, and all my policy documents said I was covered from Jan 15, 2022 to Jan 15, 2023. 

With this policy, you get your coverage documents immediately after payment. The docs included an Insurance Declaration and an official Letter of Coverage. I enclosed both in my visa application dossier.

As for the cost of this policy, it wasn't as cheap as what some others have reported, but I felt it was good value. 

Good luck!


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## JayBee1

GraceS said:


> Oh yes, I remember that time frame stumbling block when I was buying the required visa medical insurance last year. Here's how I solved it:
> 
> 1. Decided to buy a "Patriot International" policy offered by IMG, and purchased through the Insubuy website .
> I chose this policy because it had decent reviews/reputation, was cancellable with refund if not needed the whole year, covered Covid, and covered acute onset of pre-existing conditions.
> 
> 2. On the Insubuy website, filled out the first two screens of info, including the one-year policy length of Jan 15, 2022 to Jan 15, 2023. Clicked to advance the form, but got the message that the time length was too long. Changed Jan 15, 2023 to Jan 14, 2023, clicked to advance the screen, and suddenly, there was my one-year, 365-day coverage. Continued through to purchase, and all my policy documents said I was covered from Jan 15, 2022 to Jan 15, 2023.
> 
> With this policy, you get your coverage documents immediately after payment. The docs included an Insurance Declaration and an official Letter of Coverage. I enclosed both in my visa application dossier.
> 
> As for the cost of this policy, it wasn't as cheap as what some others have reported, but I felt it was good value.
> 
> Good luck!


Grace is correct. The only thing I will add is that if your target date of leaving changes, you can easily have them change the date to match your arrival to France.


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## sangfroid

Bevdeforges said:


> Technically speaking, you need an "expat" policy, not a "travel" one. Though as I understand it, the categorization of the policy by the insurer may or may not be relevant. Key thing is that it's not supposed to have a "high deductible" and must have repatriation cover (though that is kind of irrelevant for American citizens, given the lack of any sort of national cover over there). One approach is to ask the insurance agency specifically for a policy to meet visa requirements. Or take a look at the AARO standard policies. I know folks complain that they are "expensive" (i.e. a few thousand dollars for a full year of coverage, depending on your age), but that's the level of cover that is expected. Once you have been here for 3 months, you can register for the national plan (and probably "should" plan on getting a decent mutuelle to supplement that) - so if you can find cover that you can cancel mid-year you may want to consider that option.


Bev, I recall that a few folks here met the health coverage requirement with a travel insurance policy that included repatriation. Travel insurance costs less than the conventional route, but who knows, maybe they just got lucky.


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## drexfrance

> I recall that a few folks here met the health coverage
> requirement with a travel insurance policy that included
> repatriation.


I know someone who passed with a 90 day travel policy - and then had to hastily renew it for another 90 days when (of course) the Carte Vitale application took longer than expected.

But the docs say that the policy has to be for the full year, and I'd rather have my ducks and ducklings marching together at the application appointment, rather than trying to rearrange things in a panic.

Grace, thanks, I saw that policy somewhere in my chaotic web flailing. I'd forgotten the name and where I'd seen it. It's WAY more expensive than the above-mentioned 90 day plan, but peace of mind is worth something.

Thanks in fact to all for your sage advice!


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## Nunthewiser

From recent experience, if you are getting a VLS-TS visiteur visa approved by the DC consulate, this Schengen visa policy flies for about $350/year : Schengen Travel Insurance – MondialCare.eu. My wife just got her visa last week with this. It was issued in a matter of seconds upon purchase with a US credit card. No medical questionnaire or underwriting. You are able to change the coverage dates,if needed. There is also a slightly cheaper policy from EuropAssist, that has been reported to work at the DC consulate. I have no earthly idea why the London consulate insists on something completely different (perhaps punishment for Brexit), but they do. Now, will any of these cover you if something happens? Do you feel lucky?


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## drexfrance

Nunthewiser, thanks - that Mondial Care offer seems really good - maybe too good to be true. I ran a one-year 35K € policy query with a fake name and passport number but my genuine birthdate (which I assure you was a good long time ago). I expected a much higher price, but no. Same price you quote. 

How can they do that? 

As I understand it, my application will be reviewed at the DC consulate, but first I have to get the documents past VFS's eagle eyes in Chicago.



> Now, will any of these cover you if something happens?


Ah, there's the rub, n'est-ce pas? Especially for us older folks. We have a higher risk of actually needing the coverage than you healthy young people.


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## Bevdeforges

drexfrance said:


> Ah, there's the rub, n'est-ce pas? Especially for us older folks. We have a higher risk of actually needing the coverage than you healthy young people.


Which does raise the caveat that, in buying health cover for a visa application, the point of the exercise is to be adequately covered - not to simply pay the fee to get the visa. Once you're here and signed into the CPAM system, there is still a mutuelle to consider. And for "us older folks" you should probably be thinking in terms of a minimum of 1200 to 1500€ a year to get something that actually covers your needs. Health care is not "free" in France, though admittedly, the costs are far, far lower than anything you'll find in the US.


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## BackinFrance

What if you have a major illness and your travel insurer decides it is less expensive to repatriate you and let you pay for your health care back home?


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## JayBee1

A couple of things. If something extremely untoward should happen, perhaps being repatriated back "home " to family and friends would be a good thing. Imagine having to deal with this in another country and language. (Happened to me with my husband when visiting another country. I was thrilled to have support.) 

Just check the reviews of the company you're purchasing the policy from and come on down! 
Life is way too short...whatever your age is!


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## BackinFrance

JayBee1 said:


> A couple of things. If something extremely untoward should happen, perhaps being repatriated back "home " to family and friends would be a good thing. Imagine having to deal with this in another country and language. (Happened to me with my husband when visiting another country. I was thrilled to have support.)
> 
> Just check the reviews of the company you're purchasing the policy from and come on down!
> Life is way too short...whatever your age is!


OTOH when people are looking to move permanently to France and they are in the French system and dropped their travel insurance, they will either have to pay for their repatriation or cope as best they can in their new country of residence. If you are wary of having to cope with such things, then perhaps you should reconsider your move.


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## Nunthewiser

Another policy to consider that is actually fairly close to French comprehensive standards and (theoretically) pays for routine care is Mondassur GoldVisa Safe. I was quoted about 2,000 euros/yr (I'm 67 and in good health) and will probably get that soon for our move next month.


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## JayBee1

BackinFrance said:


> OTOH when people are looking to move permanently to France and they are in the French system and dropped their travel insurance, they will either have to pay for their repatriation or cope as best they can in their new country of residence. If you are wary of having to cope with such things, then perhaps you should reconsider your move.


Agreed. That's why we didn't cancel our visa insurance and let it run out even though we had CPAM and a mutuelle.🙂


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## drexfrance

Hi again Nun. Thanks for posting that info. I just looked at the Mondassur website and at the plan you mentioned, Gold Visa Safe. 

Their PDF states that, among other limits, surgery is covered to 4200€ per hospitalization, and hospital stays to 140€ per day. Those don't seem to match up to VFS's "any possible costs," and as a USian used to our costs, strike me as on the low side. 

But if VFS accepted it for your visa application, presumably it's OK with the consulate.

The same company has a much cheaper plan which they call Europe Access Long Stay Visa Insurance. It says that it covers hospitalization, doctor fees, analysis, x-ray, medicine, and nursing "up to 100%" - with fine print that stipulates a deductible of €80 per procedure. That could really add up. Again, it doesn't seem like it meets the French requirements, though the name certainly implies that it does.

Someone else on the board mentioned Exclusive Healthcare. I sent them a quotation request about a week ago and have heard nothing back. Maybe at 68, I'm too old for them.

The Patriot insurance that Grace mentioned (do you have to wave a flag while you're running the charge through?) <g> seems more generous, but it requires pre-approval of quite a few expenses. 

I thought that lining up health insurance would be one of the easier tasks in the visa process. Hmm.


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## bhamham

drexfrance said:


> The same company has a much cheaper plan which they call Europe Access Long Stay Visa Insurance. It says that it covers hospitalization, doctor fees, analysis, x-ray, medicine, and nursing "up to 100%" - with fine print that stipulates a deductible of €80 per procedure. That could really add up. Again, it doesn't seem like it meets the French requirements, though the name certainly implies that it does.


I used this plan to secure my VLS-TS visa in Aug 2021 on the advice of others that were successful using it. I filed a legitimate claim with them - I was admitted to the CHU in Nantes - but it was denied. I don't recommend this company.
Fortunately, I received my carte vitale after four months from arriving so didn't have to rely on them any longer.


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## jweihl

drexfrance said:


> Someone else on the board mentioned Exclusive Healthcare. I sent them a quotation request about a week ago and have heard nothing back. Maybe at 68, I'm too old for them.
> ...
> I thought that lining up health insurance would be one of the easier tasks in the visa process. Hmm.


I think it was me that mentioned Exclusive Healthcare. We did, successfully, use them to get cover that passed scrutiny at the Chicago Vfs office and the US consulate in DC. We've now got our cartes vitales and have converted our policy to a mutuelle. It works very well. All I can suggest is to contact them again. Our neighbors have had good luck dealing with them by phone. I did it all via email.

That said, I don't think that anyone would characterize getting health insurance for your visa as one of the easier tasks. There's just so much variety that it makes comparing companies and policies fairly frustrating.


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## Bevdeforges

Don't forget that medical charges in France are generally MUCH MUCH lower than what you'll get in the US. Also, the concept of "deductible" or "co-pay" is kind of meaningless here. The system simply works differently and there is a listing of "standard charges" available through the Ameli website, which is what the French system reimbursements are based on. Not that some practitioners don't charge more - but still much less than US rates.

Given that you'll be eligible for CPAM here after 3 months (though it can take a while to process that), your private cover is only for a year, so choose accordingly. Once in the French system, figure on at least 1200€ per person per year for a reasonable mutuelle, depending on your needs and preferences.


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## Nunthewiser

drexfrance said:


> Hi again Nun. Thanks for posting that info. I just looked at the Mondassur website and at the plan you mentioned, Gold Visa Safe.
> 
> Their PDF states that, among other limits, surgery is covered to 4200€ per hospitalization, and hospital stays to 140€ per day. Those don't seem to match up to VFS's "any possible costs," and as a USian used to our costs, strike me as on the low side.
> 
> But if VFS accepted it for your visa application, presumably it's OK with the consulate.
> 
> The same company has a much cheaper plan which they call Europe Access Long Stay Visa Insurance. It says that it covers hospitalization, doctor fees, analysis, x-ray, medicine, and nursing "up to 100%" - with fine print that stipulates a deductible of €80 per procedure. That could really add up. Again, it doesn't seem like it meets the French requirements, though the name certainly implies that it does.
> 
> Someone else on the board mentioned Exclusive Healthcare. I sent them a quotation request about a week ago and have heard nothing back. Maybe at 68, I'm too old for them.
> 
> The Patriot insurance that Grace mentioned (do you have to wave a flag while you're running the charge through?) <g> seems more generous, but it requires pre-approval of quite a few expenses.
> 
> I thought that lining up health insurance would be one of the easier tasks in the visa process. Hmm.


It is complicated. It doesn't help that there are multiple standards for what are acceptable by whatever authority reviews your file. (The DC consulate is most lenient, the London consulate much less so and a prefecture is anyone's guess) That may well be different from what you want or think you need.

If you just want to get something that ticks the box for a VLS-TS visiteur at the DC consulate, that Mondial care Schengen plan works (my wife did it). Will it cover her if something happens? Probably not.

The Mondassur GoldVisa Safe plan I was considering is more comprehensive, but as you point out, has very low coverage amounts. I am considering it because I am an EU citizen ( don't need a visa) and my insurance review will be conducted at a prefecture. I think it looks closer to what is expected, but after hearing a few bad reports about Mondassur, I am inclinded to look elsewhere. I was quoted a policy from April for about 3000 euros (I will be 68, like you) and I will probably take that, although I think the coverage limits may be too high for the worst that could happen (at French rates). When you get close to 70, the choices are very limited.


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## drexfrance

The April "Comfort" plan is interesting, Nun. It appears that it can be cancelled or converted into a mutuelle. It has a somewhat eyebrow-elevating exclusions list - pre-existing conditions are on there - but maybe I'm expecting too much.


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## drexfrance

> Mondial care Schengen plan works (my wife did it). Will it cover her if
> something happens? Probably not.


I don't know how trustworthy Trustpilot reviews are - too many review sites these days are gamed by both the firm being reviewed and by its competitors - but you might try searching the web for 

trustpilot "Mondial Care"

If you check the similar French-language review page you can find with the search string

trustpilot mondialcare lisez les avis

The Mondial Care response to the German language post is most interesting.

As the old song says, you don't always get what you pay for, but you darn seldom get what you DON'T pay for.


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## Peter_E

drexfrance said:


> Hi again Nun. Thanks for posting that info. I just looked at the Mondassur website and at the plan you mentioned, Gold Visa Safe.
> 
> Their PDF states that, among other limits, surgery is covered to 4200€ per hospitalization, and hospital stays to 140€ per day. Those don't seem to match up to VFS's "any possible costs," and as a USian used to our costs, strike me as on the low side.
> 
> But if VFS accepted it for your visa application, presumably it's OK with the consulate.
> 
> The same company has a much cheaper plan which they call Europe Access Long Stay Visa Insurance. It says that it covers hospitalization, doctor fees, analysis, x-ray, medicine, and nursing "up to 100%" - with fine print that stipulates a deductible of €80 per procedure. That could really add up. Again, it doesn't seem like it meets the French requirements, though the name certainly implies that it does.
> 
> Someone else on the board mentioned Exclusive Healthcare. I sent them a quotation request about a week ago and have heard nothing back. Maybe at 68, I'm too old for them.
> 
> The Patriot insurance that Grace mentioned (do you have to wave a flag while you're running the charge through?) <g> seems more generous, but it requires pre-approval of quite a few expenses.
> 
> I thought that lining up health insurance would be one of the easier tasks in the visa process. Hmm.


Hi drexfrance. Medical costs are much lower in France. An appointment with a surgeon is 30 euros, the full costs to reattach an amputated finger which was day in hospital+surgery+5 surgeon appointments post operation with all accident and emergency costs was 2000 euros. Those figures are for this year. The costs are similar to Belgium, were 4 years ago I had 3 operations with associated hospitalization to attempt to repair a severely broken elbow, with 60 sessions of physio, and the total cost was less than 10000 euros.


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