# working for UK company while living in the USA



## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

Hi All,

New to this forum so be gentle with me.

I recently have been granted my K1 Fiance visa and will be flying to LA to start my new life with my fiance.

My company is a Global company and the UK office really want (as do I) to continue working for the UK office, UK hours, for the UK market. 

As I will be living in the USA (I am doing my court marriage a couple of days after landing so will have my social security number etc and will have submitted my Adjustment of Status forms) would i be able to continue working for them?

Given that I am going there on a fiance visa, would i be able to still be paid into my UK bank account and pay US tax (as has been suggested in other threads - although none of those were on the basis of a K1 visa) - 

My company are looking into it actively and trying to get an answer ASAP. I am asking you all for some advice so I can a) show my commitment by researching myself and b)assist in any way that I can.

Your help would be much appreciated.

Best Regards

Amit


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

In most international tax situations, you are considered to be working in the country in which you are residing or where you are physically located while doing the work. That means that once you are in the US, you are considered to be working in the US, no matter where or how you are being paid.

What you can do, once you have your work papers (i.e. after you are married and have changed your status) is to work for your former employer as a contractor. This means that YOU will be responsible for payroll taxes (i.e. US social security - both employer and employee portions), for tax withholdings and for things like medical insurance. It can be a bit of a hassle if you only have one "customer" because the IRS tends to look askance at one-customer businesses like this, but it can be arranged.

You will have to bill your "employer" for the work you do (and you should also be billing for expenses incurred) and do a reasonable amount of record keeping and accounting on your own. Usually, the amount you're being paid needs to be increased to cover miscellaneous expenses and the employer contributions to social insurances, etc. But it can work out. You may want to talk to an accountant once you get to the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm going to disagree a little with Bev on this since I don't think the contractor route is necessary. I think it's perfectly OK to remain on U.K. payroll at least for some period of time. The U.S.-U.K. Social Security treaty will explain which system you'll pay into (U.K. most probably). You're getting valid immigration status in the U.S., so no problem there. As a U.S. resident you'll have to file a U.S. tax return, but you'll probably pay zero and might even pile up some Foreign Tax Credits which could be nice on a joint tax return with your wife. You and she will probably be eligible to make IRA contributions for retirement savings.

All pretty simple I think, relatively speaking.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I'd be careful about the idea of remaining on the UK payroll. Once you're resident in the US, you need to be on a US payroll. If the UK employer has a US office, you may be able to be paid through that office. But as a US resident, you are supposed to be paying US payroll taxes (which may include state payroll taxes).

Tread carefully with this one. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> Once you're resident in the US, you need to be on a US payroll.


That's the first I've heard of such a requirement. In fact, the Social Security Administration says otherwise. It's OK to keep working in the U.S. for a U.K. employer on U.K. payroll (with U.K. social insurance contributions) for up to 5 years. Past 5 years it's still OK, but then you've got to go onto U.S. Social Security (and thus off the U.K. system).

....Well, OK, the U.K. employer needs to "send you to work in the U.S. for five years or less." I'm assuming here the U.K. employer has no problem doing that.

IRS? No problem. It's income, and you'd file a tax return (separately or joint), taking the Foreign Tax Credit I would expect. (U.K. taxes would continue, presumably, but that's up to them. The U.K. might have its own version of the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, for example.)

USCIS? No problem. You have authorization to reside and to work in the U.S. if you have a green card.

Now, it's quite right that the _employer_ needs to check this out a bit. Employing somebody in the U.S. might come with some new legal responsibilities, for example. But for the employee? Pretty much business as usual I'd say, unless I'm missing something.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> I'd be careful about the idea of remaining on the UK payroll. Once you're resident in the US, you need to be on a US payroll. If the UK employer has a US office, you may be able to be paid through that office. But as a US resident, you are supposed to be paying US payroll taxes (which may include state payroll taxes).
> 
> Tread carefully with this one.
> Cheers,
> Bev


What are pay roll taxes? As contractor you pay state income tax (if applicable) and FICA. I see no reason to be on a UK pay roll as a contractor is not an employee. If it is a mom 'n pop shop they may want to consult the UK version of cpa.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Payroll taxes are basically FICA plus any state level "social insurances" (things like unemployment tax, which is usually paid by the employer in the US).

Those 5-year exclusion from local social insurances things are normally something that has to be established by the foreign employer in advance, and as you note, they are related to a temporary assignment in a foreign country. Many countries will challenge the "temporary" nature of an assignment if there is reason to believe that the arrangement is being done to avoid enrollment in the local taxing system - and coming over on a fiancé visa does kind of throw doubt on the nature of the assignment. However, it's up to the employer to get this organized. (And it's usually a situation where the employer has a US office or branch to handle the payroll side of things.)

Let your employer do their research and see what they come up with. But you'll still be subject to US taxation once you have your green card. It's only the social security that is subject to keeping you in your "home system." (And how much good it will do you to remain in the NHS while living in the US is open to debate.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> (And how much good it will do you to remain in the NHS while living in the US is open to debate.)


It's not so much the NHS but the national pension benefits. However, if there is a choice available (U.S. v. U.K. contributions) then it'd be worth looking at the relative benefits. U.S. Social Security is rather good, actually.

My wife has the option to continue contributing to her social insurance system from overseas. We ran the numbers and determined it was absolutely a great deal for her to continue making those contributions in order to qualify for retirement benefits. I think the math then changes after 2015, so we'll take another look in a couple years.


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks guys, from everything I have read all over the internet, here, and another site i used to coach me through my visa process....the majority rule seems to be the following...

So long as I am working remotely, for the company in the UK, for the UK market and paid into my UK bank account, A work permit or visa is not required. My main thing is that I can continue to work until my status is adjusted - thereafter i will be able to work IN the US for a US company ON a US Company Payroll - before all that happens I am not displacing a US Citizen's opportunity for jobs etc as I am working for the UK so hence the work permit is a mute point until I have my GC. 

So long as I declare my income in the US as Worldwide income and pay the relevant taxes (separate discussion i guess) things should be OK. 

My company has 64 offices around the world so they must have done something similar before (they said they have and working out the process currently) and are actively looking into this right now. 

Has anyone on here done/doing the same thing as me? I understand the process but as I understand it the law has not been updated to discuss remote working. working as a contractor - I agree that a work permit is required - because im classing my self employed in the USA.....but if I am still on the UK payroll just sitting in my bedroom in the USA working remotely....i don't need a work permit.....I would see it as the same principle as working via my laptop while I was sitting on the beach for 2 weeks on Holiday. I wouldnt need a visa or permit for the country I was on holiday in to perform my work back in the UK would I? 

Thanks in advance for your responses and help. 

I have 8 weeks before I fly to California.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

You will physically be in the US on K1 status in process of AoS without legal authorization to work. It does not matter whose payroll you are on. The services you sell for compensation are being generated in the US be it in an office or pool side.
Aside from that - explain income on your tax returns between filing AoS and EAD once to file for US citizenship.


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks for your response. I understand the point you are making...but it doesn't make sense to me. 

IF I was on an ESTA on Holiday in the US for 3 months would that mean I would not be able to check work emails or take phone calls etc for my company in the UK? 

I understand the main difference is that I am applying for US AOS but the fact that there is a 3 month gap and that EAD on arrival stopped in 2009, what would the purpose be to not allow the above status to happen? What would be the benifit to the US to restrict and not allow someone to continue to work remotely? 

below is a summary of my experience and information I have found this week.....your comments would be appreciated...

"An EAD is required IF the individual is working in the US and displacing a potential US citizen from employment. An EAD is not required if the individual is living in the US but working overseas - and that is basically what remote work is - working outside of the US. The US has no control over what happens in other countries. It cannot tell a foreign employer that it cannot employ an individual who is not taking a job away from a US resident or citizen, nor is having deductions at source taken by the IRS. It is up to the employee to declare their 'world wide' earnings to the IRS and to file a tax return, often taking advantage of tax treaties with foreign countries to prevent double taxation.

An EAD is for employment in the US that is subject to US legislation, US employment standards and US employment benefits and deductions (Soc. Sec/ UI, etc.). It is not required for employment outside of the jurisdiction of US employers.

It is also important to realize that most of the wording on the instructions and application forms for the various visas has not been updated to incorporate circumstances of remote work since that is a relatively recent ability. The intent of the EAD is to ensure no US worker gets displaced by someone who isn't authorized to work in the US. Remote work is not working in the US - it is working overseas. "

I have called USCIS with this question, and we have been told that as long as we file our taxes at the end of the year, I am ok to work remotely, for a British based company.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

First of all, neither tax law nor immigration law need to make sense, to you or to your employer. And you can barely trust USCIS to give you a "definitive" answer to an immigration matter, much less to a tax matter. (Heck, even the IRS will not stand by any advice they give you by phone.)

Yes, if you were in the US for up to 3 months on an ESTA/VWP you can telecommute to your job back in the UK without difficulty because you are not considered resident in the US. If you're in the US on a fiancé visa, you are considered to be taking up residence and all the rules change.

If your employer is the one who has laid the situation out to you as you describe, then what they are giving you is the "what you can probably get away with" scenario. If you get caught out, it will be you and you alone in hot water unless your employer agrees to clear the situation ahead of time with the IRS and the USCIS. They would hardly be the first international employer to suggest "what you can get away with" rather than how things are supposed to be handled. But if they are not sponsoring your visa, I would be very wary of any promises on their part to make you whole again should you run into difficulties in following their "advice" on the matter.
Cheers,
Bev


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

ok...i get your view above...thanks for the quick response....what if i did the work without any remuneration whatsoever? No pay, no anything until I get my green card and EAD to work after the approx 3 months? What if they begin to pay me then?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Can someone please post an official link stating tele-commuting for 90 while in the US on WVP is legal?


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

are there any official sites/links anyone can point me to? anything official to say if one can/cannot work remotely.

All I can find online is opinion (we all have our own)...but nothing formal or official.

Thanks again Bev and co...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Visa Waiver Program (VWP)


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

Hi All,

I found the following....please review section G and let me know your thoughts......

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110211420

specifically this statement ......
1. Aliens employment-authorized without specific DHS authorization

The following chart lists, by COA code, non-immigrants authorized to work in the U.S. without specific authorization from DHS. The alien’s I-94 showing one of the following COAs has employment authorization unless otherwise noted. The I-94 will not have the DHS employment authorization stamp and the alien will generally not have an EAD.

I would really appreciate your comments. 

Thanks


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

K1 is a visa listed in the chart pertaining to the above statement.


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## amitraisharma (Sep 26, 2013)

Bev - do you have any comments on the above link a d information in section G? I am meant to hear from my company tomorrow on their view on the entire process. 

Thanks


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

See what your employer has to say (assuming they can get any information out of the government now that it's shut down). I'm just back home after a couple of weeks away and honestly, I have very little experience with the labor authorization process in the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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