# Musicians in cyprus



## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi, I'm a Pro musician currently in the UK and hoping to move to Cypruse in the near future. 
Could anyone advise me regarding my occupation in Cyprus. I have heard that there could be an issue if I were to be paid for performing in hotels etc as it could somehow be depriving a cypriot from earning and therefore its against the law 

If anyone could please clarify the situation i would be most grateful

many thanks


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Topbanduk said:


> Hi, I'm a Pro musician currently in the UK and hoping to move to Cypruse in the near future.
> Could anyone advise me regarding my occupation in Cyprus. I have heard that there could be an issue if I were to be paid for performing in hotels etc as it could somehow be depriving a cypriot from earning and therefore its against the law
> 
> If anyone could please clarify the situation i would be most grateful
> ...


It is certainly not against the law but I dont think it will be easy to secure a job because the work situation is generally not good here at the moment and many hotels are struggling. That said why not come over for an extended holiday and go to a few hotels to see what is available.


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Veronica said:


> It is certainly not against the law but I dont think it will be easy to secure a job because the work situation is generally not good here at the moment and many hotels are struggling. That said why not come over for an extended holiday and go to a few hotels to see what is available.


Hi Veronica, 

Many thanks for your reply .. and pleased to hear that there are no restrictions on expat performing musicians in Cyprus. 

I appreciate the recession has hit Cyprus as well as the UK but peole are still visiting your area throughout the summer and I would have thought that live entertainment would be required. 

I would hope to meet expat musicians and form an act as I have done several times in the UK. 

I need to come over later in the year to find suitable property 

Geoff


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

Good luck, there are many musicians, Cyprus, Russian, British etc... I find the Cypriot ones who play English songs are more rock/jazz than mainstream. 

There are a fair amount of places that hire musicians that are based in Cyprus or abroad - if you are good then you'll do well, I'm sure I'm stating the obvious!

In Limassol you can try and get in touch with 7 seas music bar - Live Music in Cyprus | 7 Seas - Live Music Bar Limassol | Limassol Nightlife


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Zin, thaks for responding ..any help is appreciated


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

Topbanduk said:


> Hi, I'm a Pro musician currently in the UK and hoping to move to Cypruse in the near future.
> Could anyone advise me regarding my occupation in Cyprus. I have heard that there could be an issue if I were to be paid for performing in hotels etc as it could somehow be depriving a cypriot from earning and therefore its against the law
> 
> If anyone could please clarify the situation i would be most grateful
> ...


Just spoken to one of our friends who is a top musician & has lived there 18 years & speaks fluent Greek, he said the scene is dreadful, he is now only doing 2 gigs a week & constantly being undercut by musicians coming in from Poland, Bulgaria etc who are doing gigs in hotels for 20 to 30 € plus a hotel room. He said it was the worst he had known it.
He said the hotels are packed full but they are not spending on music & musicians often wait a long time to get paid, sometimes months later.

As for 7 Seas Limassol they only employ Greek/Cypriots or Greeks, so not a chance.

By the way my husband is also pro musician & we lived in Cyprus until last September so these are the facts from a fellow muso.

Cyprus government will not spend any money on entertainment & I mean ZERO. If they do it's Greek music. In comparison where we live now North Tenerife have just had 10 day Heineken Jazz festival which cost government & sponsors 1 million €, they do it every year with local & international musicians, this year was their 20th anniversary & we all we paid for 4 concerts tickets were between €10 & €20 & 6 concerts were free admission. International Musos were Lee Rittnour band with Dave Grusin, Clayton Hamilton Big Band, Dave Holland Band. Hotels are quiet , 4 are closing & staff were protesting they had not been paid for 4 months, Unemployment running at 30% but still the music & fiestas go on.:clap2:

In Cyprus Brit musicians only work in Brit owned bars often to backing tracks!!!!

The whole of Europe is in a mess so don't bother leaving home unless you can support yourself without an income from music.


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

anski said:


> Just spoken to one of our friends who is a top musician & has lived there 18 years & speaks fluent Greek, he said the scene is dreadful, he is now only doing 2 gigs a week & constantly being undercut by musicians coming in from Poland, Bulgaria etc who are doing gigs in hotels for 20 to 30 € plus a hotel room. He said it was the worst he had known it.
> He said the hotels are packed full but they are not spending on music & musicians often wait a long time to get paid, sometimes months later.
> 
> As for 7 Seas Limassol they only employ Greek/Cypriots or Greeks, so not a chance.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback..phew! it doesnt sound good at all does it??? 

The UK is experiancig a similar situation with an ever diminishing number of venues cutting the amount they pay. I can support myself if i moved to Cyprus , its just a case of , I need something to do rather than sit around a pool all day every day. Are there not agents in Cyprus who can provide work for good bands? 
Even though tourism is down in all aspects of travel I would have thought there has to be a demand for live entertainment forthe people who go and stay abroad ....but I could be wrong. 
My brother went to Cyprus last year and visited several venues who were hosting live entertainment. He reported the entertainment was a terrible standard both vocaly and musically


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Topbanduk said:


> Thanks for the feedback..phew! it doesnt sound good at all does it???
> 
> The UK is experiancig a similar situation with an ever diminishing number of venues cutting the amount they pay. I can support myself if i moved to Cyprus , its just a case of , I need something to do rather than sit around a pool all day every day. Are there not agents in Cyprus who can provide work for good bands?
> Even though tourism is down in all aspects of travel I would have thought there has to be a demand for live entertainment forthe people who go and stay abroad ....but I could be wrong.
> My brother went to Cyprus last year and visited several venues who were hosting live entertainment. He reported the entertainment was a terrible standard both vocaly and musically


If you are better than the normal run of the mill musicians we get here but are willing to work for the same sort of money then I am sure you could pick up some work. If as you say you can support yourself then I am sure any little bit extra will be a bonus.


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

> As for 7 Seas Limassol they only employ Greek/Cypriots or Greeks, so not a chance.


This is incorrect. I've been to many events there with various musicians from around the world, many Brits as well.


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Veronica said:


> If you are better than the normal run of the mill musicians we get here but are willing to work for the same sort of money then I am sure you could pick up some work. If as you say you can support yourself then I am sure any little bit extra will be a bonus.


Hi Veronica, 
Yes i can support myself if I moved to Cyprus ... the bit that worried me was not having a lot to do other than sun bathing all day , every day and I suppose theres alimit to how much of a good thing anyone can stand 
Almost my entire life has been built around musicians and performing. I run a 9 piece band over here in the UK and prior to that I worked for a top 5 piece who worked for excelent money. the lack of gigs is an international issue so I'm guessing that one place cant be much worse than another. Are their any Cyprus band websites where I could have a look at what the standards are that you might know of? Im more used to Caberet guitarist rather than typical heavy rock but would be interested to know also what the most popular benre's are where you live 

Geoff


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

zin said:


> This is incorrect. I've been to many events there with various musicians from around the world, many Brits as well.


Really I don't think so!!. Take a look at their website, they used to employ other nationalities but then changed their minds.

The crowd wants Greek Cypriot music so that's who they give the gigs to.


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

7 Seas is not a Greek music venue. I am from Limassol, I've actually been there numerous times and recently. I've been to Latino nights there, I've been to Jazz nights there, I've been to mainstream pop live band music nights there with people from Wales and England performing - yes they do sometimes bring Greek bands and play live Greek music but this is not the norm, there's a bouzoukia venue round the corner from there which covers all that. I know people who work there, the person who signs up the gigs I even went to school with. 

If someone who is not Cypriot did not get a gig there and put it down to because they are not Cypriot rather than simply not being selected due to a bad demo or whateve then that's a different issue. That's not to say other venues don't pick gigs based on nationality/cost. The Four Seasons hotel for example I've noticed hires many Russian singers with Cypriot bands. 

See youtube link below for 7 seas performers.

YouTube - ‪7 seas limassol‬‏


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Zin, 
So what your saying is theres work in Cyprus for all good musicans / bands regardless of nationality ?


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

I'm saying you would be given work based on a mixture of talent and cost over nationality yes.


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Zin.. 
thats helpful what sort of payment are the bands receiving ? 
Are their any/many British Bands.
What sort of material is requested ?

Many thanks 
Geoff


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

I think your best bet for finding those answers is to come here and ask the bands themselves, I'm sure they would be better placed to answer those questions than I ever would.


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Zin, 
Thanks for your advice...I do intend to comeover in the near future and check it all out ...I also need to look at property too.

Best regards 
Geoff


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Topbanduk said:


> Hi Zin,
> Thanks for your advice...I do intend to comeover in the near future and check it all out ...I also need to look at property too.
> 
> Best regards
> Geoff


The best thing you can do is go over there and take a look and see for yourself. See if you could find work, see if you would fit and if you could make a living! Everyone has an opinion and without doubt times are hard, but you need to know for you, not what others have found!! Music is subjective!

Jo xxx


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> The best thing you can do is go over there and take a look and see for yourself. See if you could find work, see if you would fit and if you could make a living! Everyone has an opinion and without doubt times are hard, but you need to know for you, not what others have found!! Music is subjective!
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi ...yes i totaly agree and I intend to come over and have a look around soon, 
Im grateful for all the opinions that have been provided on here as it does give an insight as to whats happening and the demand for entertainment in cyprus. I dont expect to earn a living but as music has been a major part of my life it would be great if I could continue my interests abroad in some degree.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Topbanduk said:


> Hi ...yes i totaly agree and I intend to come over and have a look around soon,
> Im grateful for all the opinions that have been provided on here as it does give an insight as to whats happening and the demand for entertainment in cyprus. I dont expect to earn a living but as music has been a major part of my life it would be great if I could continue my interests abroad in some degree.


Yes! My husband actually commutes back to the UK to play in his band (you musicians are crazy!!!). We moved to Spain 4 years ago thinking there maybe something here, but, not really - very cut throat at the mo, stories of sabotage and fights between competing bands etc I suspect things arent much better in Cyprus, so they'll be some guarding of territory, but take a look - you never know you may find an opening????? Just dont burn your UK bridges 

jo xxx


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> Yes! My husband actually commutes back to the UK to play in his band (you musicians are crazy!!!). We moved to Spain 4 years ago thinking there maybe something here, but, not really - very cut throat at the mo, stories of sabotage and fights between competing bands etc I suspect things arent much better in Cyprus, so they'll be some guarding of territory, but take a look - you never know you may find an opening????? Just dont burn your UK bridges
> 
> jo xxx


Hi Jojo, 
Yes, I have to agree most muscians are a bit strange with their addiction to performing ... the things we do for music eh, haha! 
The cut-throat side of the business has always been there , even when time were good with bands undercutting each other to get gigs. I suppose the clients are little different over there than they are over here and would book a quality show that would pack the house and selll more drinks. 

What I would dearly love to do is form a band that has a Trumpet, Trombone amd saxophone brass section over there as that is exactly what I have done in the UK. A band that size generating a lot of energy has to be a good option and takes the band into a different league rather than 2 guitars and a drumkit.

Geoff


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## MalcolmH (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Geoff

I am in a similar position to you, I think.

I have been performing as a lead singer/front man in function bands, as well as jazz and rock'n'roll covers groups regularly for about 12 years. Turning 50 this month and seriously looking at Cyprus as an option.

Some of the comments in reply to your post seem rather depressing, but perhaps not entirely unexpected. I tend to agree with your aspiration that a quality outfit would be able to generate work, but the view on the ground seems more pessimistic based on what people have said here.

My wife and I are going out for two weeks at the end of August and I am making some contacts to meet while there to get a better feel for the the likelihood of having music as a form of income. 

Where are you in the UK? We are just outside Oxford at the moment. Maybe it would be a good idea to chat/get together if you are nearby? Let me know if you'd like to get in touch and I can send my email/mobile - just tried on here and the system wouldn't let me post the info!

Cheers

Malcolm


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*Hi*

Hi when you get there go to Hectors Bar Coral Bay & say hi to Ian he is the vocalist with my old band Zacsuss they are great guys & the best in Cyprus & he fill you in as to whats happening on The Paphos scene GOOD LUCK.


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## MalcolmH (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks, McZ - I will certainly look Ian up on our arrival.

Fingers crossed!


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

We lived in Paphos, Cyprus for a year, my husband a professional musician for 50 years formed the band Zacsuss which is still around today. Kostia the lead guitarist the best by far I have heard in years. They still play regularly every week at Hectors Bar, Coral Bay & Tony & Judy always paid the guys a reasonable amount for playing there even if they were having a quiet night.

However the other side of the coin another expat bar on Tomb of the Kings road offered the band the princely sum of €60 for the band in TOTAL to play there on Sunday nights when the place was packed!
This same bar was raided by the noise police & another band had all their instruments confiscated! This was reported at the time in local newspapers & radio stations & an expat forum 
At first the band was told their instruments would be held as evidence for 2 years (before the case came to court) but after engaging a lawyer & several appeals to the court the instruments were returned after a few weeks.
I would like to add these were not cheap instruments or sound equipment either, but top of the range including a very expensive collectible guitar!

As for Brass players forget it, there is/was a big band in Limassol or Larnaca & a another big band who visit for a week each year. This comprises of a few local retired musicians with the addition of some visiting British musicians who pay their own transport costs out & are housed by locals during their stay. They usually play for a few days in Paphos,at the UKCA club in Paphos & another hotel.

Hotels close down in winter, & when they are open they get by with local entertainment some good some bad. To give you an idea one hotel has 4 local Cypriots doing traditional dancing (they all look bored & every dance seems no different to the last)
Other entertainment is usually solo acts or duos with backing tracks (I have witnessed these entertainers fumbling with the device when they go out of sync!
Greek music is in demand & does pay well if you can play for 6 hours continuous (no toilet break either) & now they are getting musos from Bulgaria to do the same gig for a pittance!

There is a bar in Limassol Busy Bees featuring jazz, local musicians (Greek Cypriots) are from Nicosia mostly ex Berkley on a regular basis which then from time to time has visiting American musicians (funded by the US government )

Most musicians coming to Cyprus either hang up their clogs or end up playing Rock or Blues.
We had a lovely year & I never regret our time spent there, my husband had a great band (wish we could have picked them up & taken them with us, where they will be appreciated more) made lovely friends, but did not enjoy many aspects about Cyprus.

For all those musicians that think they can move out & form a top band & get gigs that pay well, you are dreaming.
The grass is not greener it is extremely cold in winter & VERY hot & humid in summer and the hotel gigs you are dreaming of do not exist not even for locals!
If you want to move for what you see as a better climate or stress free life that is not entirely true either.
For all of you reading this thinking it is just a case of sour grapes, or we could not make it not the case. Just comparing it to all of the 10 or more countries we have lived in Cyprus as a musician just did not fit the bill. But I urge you to go & see for yourself because hey everyone has a different point of view.
We researched Cyprus on various forums for 2 years & a lot of musicians who made the move then ended up leaving for various reasons.

Don't burn your bridges & do thorough research.


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

Keep in mind most of the world is in the grips of one of the worst recessions (we came close to a Depression but I think the media was advised not to mention that word) so if life as a musician in the UK is tough what really do you expect from Cyprus? 

Cyprus is even more battered from the financial crisis than the UK, has limited opportunities for any form of 9-5 type employment, has problems with houses & title deeds & has a population of less than 1 million. 

It is also a divided country so do not mention anything about the North to most Greek/Cypriots unless you want confrontation.


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## MalcolmH (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for the comprehensive take, Anski.

I guess that we are a little different than many aspiring musicians who come in hoping for the good life. We have some income from letting our house on London plus a pretty good nest egg of savings for emergencies, so it is not as if we are coming out blind and with nothing behind us.

I am not really surprised by the grittily realistic picture you paint of the life of a jobbing musician on the island. The more I read, the more similar life on Cyprus sounds to Bahrain where we lived for just over two years. The scene there was dominated by Filipino bands in the hotels doing phonetic covers with a handful of Western Europeans either visiting or doing resident work dedicated to single hotels. I was the front man for a 9 piece jazz band as well as leading spin off groups doing rock'n'roll and jazz standards. I did also have a regular, very well paid corporate job as my main income, but this would not be the case for Cyprus.

Frankly, I'm not above using backing tracks and have a pretty good collection along with my own PA. I'd much rather work live with other musicians, but realise all too well that you need to be flexible and provide what the market demands. If that means most of the work is of the 'one-man-band' variety, then so be it.

Looking forward to checking out the scene when we arrive at the end of August.

Thanks again for your insights and experience.

Malcolm


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

Malcolm, 

I have to disagree on the backing tracks, just remember for every backing track a solo musician or duo uses, it costs another musician his gig.

Zacsuss used to announce at every performance that their band was 100% live no backing tracks!

In my opinion backing tracks are for amateur or greedy musicians. 

Why is it DJ's often earn more than a live band?

This has all but killed the live music profession.

Fortunately, we are retired with adequate finances & not in need of earning an income from music because I think we would starve if that was the case today.

Years ago it was a different story, my husband used to earn a very respectable income from his gift & playing the music he loved.


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

MalcolmH said:


> Thanks for the comprehensive take, Anski.
> 
> I guess that we are a little different than many aspiring musicians who come in hoping for the good life. We have some income from letting our house on London plus a pretty good nest egg of savings for emergencies, so it is not as if we are coming out blind and with nothing behind us.
> 
> ...


YOU'VE just lost me mate anyone that resorts to backing tracks is an amateur in my book,,, NOT only does it do real musicians out of work but it STEALS arrangements & ROBS from the pockets of creative Pro Musicians & artists who work in studios with arrangers to get great backing for albums... I remember sitting in a room in Pathos listening to myself playing on a ripped off backing track being murdered by a so called entertainer & HE got paid but I did not earn a cent on that gig. 

SO DON'T EVEN try to justify the backing track scene to me, I think that the sooner we form a world wide PRO musicians union the better & we should make all these so called entertainer pay royalties.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

McZ said:


> YOU'VE just lost me mate anyone that resorts to backing tracks is an amateur in my book,,, NOT only does it do real musicians out of work but it STEALS arrangements & ROBS from the pockets of creative Pro Musicians & artists who work in studios with arrangers to get great backing for albums... I remember sitting in a room in Pathos listening to myself playing on a ripped off backing track being murdered by a so called entertainer & HE got paid but I did not earn a cent on that gig.
> 
> SO DON'T EVEN try to justify the backing track scene to me, I think that the sooner we form a world wide PRO musicians union the better & we should make all these so called entertainer pay royalties.



Each to his own. Many, many pros use backing tracks. I dont think this thread is about your definition of amateurs or pros. Its about musicians work in Cyprus

Jo xx


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

jojo said:


> Each to his own. Many, many pros use backing tracks. I dont think this thread is about your definition of amateurs or pros. Its about musicians work in Cyprus
> 
> Jo xx


Hi Jo Yes you are right but i did not bring up backing track in the first instance just responding to the comment.

And by the the definition of Amateurs & Pro's *is not mine*,, it is defined by the following: IF you earn a FULL time living from music & that's the only source of income then you are deemed to be a Pro, but if it is a hobby & you earn the bulk of you income fro another source then you are an amateur or as us Pro's call it a weekend warriors.

I wonder how you would feel about someone taking your job because they don't need the cash & they under cut you at your work place,,, it's sad but true this is what these so called musicians are doing.

My Mate in Cyprus Kosta who is a Pro & great guitarist Kosta like all us workers has monthly bills to meet & a family to support on what he can earn from what he is trained to do, so ask him what he feels about the fact that some retired Corporate type with plenty of dosh is taking the bread from his plate because he needs a hobby & does not need to earn to survive.


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## MalcolmH (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Anski and McZ

Believe me, I totally get what you are saying about using backing tracks and that it's a slippery slope for both the person using them, other musicians and live music as a whole.

I didn't post on here to advocate one method or another, however, I'm simply trying to get a handle on the whole scene in Cyprus. 

From what I can pick out so far, it is just as much musicians coming onto the island and undercutting everyone else to the point where no-one can make a decent living as it is the whole backing phenomenon.

I don't like tribute acts either and would never put one together, but that is what seems to be getting a lot of the business, whether we, as musicians, like it or not. King Canute didn't want the tide to come in, but it did, anyway.

Music performing has _always_ been about producing an act which people will pay for. For example, most musos I know HATE some if not all of the typical function band repertoire, but usually people want to hear Mustang Sally, Build Me Up Buttercup, Sweet Home Alabama and all the other usual suspects for the millionth time when at a private function or party type venue. 

It seems to me that it all depends on what you want out of your music and how much you are prepared to compromise in order to at least be playing something by and to real human beings. For one person that can be playing mainstream pop covers while their true heart may be in Free Jazz or whatever the case may be.

Show business has always been first and foremost about 'business', not the other way around. If a particular style or size of band brings in and keeps the punters, then that is what a bar/pub/restaurant is going to go for. 

Anyone who gets hung up on their musical credentials and street cred is not going to last at making a living very long, IMHO.

I don't see myself as selling out or taking the food out of other people's mouths if I have to revert to using the prevailing tools to put something together which a businessman believes will support and add more to the bottom line of his business, especially if, as I do, the tools I use happen to have been put together by paid session guys.

In the best of all possible worlds, we would all be able to find an outlet for our individual and group creativity. In the world we have, sometimes it becomes necessary to make compromises if performing to a live audience is what is more important - with all respect to those among us who manage to keep their integrity fully intact, never play covers and follow their creative muse to generate new art in the world.

For those of us who can't, I think we each have to discover where the line in the sand is that we will not cross, even when the next meal might depend on it.

Hope this clarifies my position, such as it is...

Malcolm


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

McZ said:


> Hi Jo Yes you are right but i did not bring up backing track in the first instance just responding to the comment.
> 
> And by the the definition of Amateurs & Pro's *is not mine*,, it is defined by the following: IF you earn a FULL time living from music & that's the only source of income then you are deemed to be a Pro, but if it is a hobby & you earn the bulk of you income fro another source then you are an amateur or as us Pro's call it a weekend warriors.
> 
> ...



I havent a clue about the Cyprus music scene. All I know is that it is not for you, I or anyone else to berate someone for using backing tracks. If the punters like what they hear, be it backing track, "real" or otherwise and want more, then its a done deal. Its all about public opinion at the end of the day, not job protection! Lets face it, many, many "pop stars" use backing tracks, pro-tools etc.... its the way it is these days





Jo


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

What difference is using backing and things like Karaoke?
It is a very popular form of entertainment wherever you find tourists. The original artists don't get paid royalties for the use of their records.

Veronica


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Veronica said:


> What difference is using backing and things like Karaoke?
> It is a very popular form of entertainment wherever you find tourists. The original artists don't get paid royalties for the use of their records.


They're supposed to cos those who play their music should be paying into the PRS (thats the organisation who take and pay the royalties), but that also applies to backing tracks and karaoke if played in the same places

Jo xxx


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Malcolm, good to hear from you, thanks for contacting me.

Yes i have to agree the responses so far havent exactly been encouraging. 

I think the entertainment industry is in a global meltdown regardless of country or 

continent. I speak with a considerable number of pro musicians and they are all saying the same in that quality work is not easy to come by... at any level and as enetertainment is funded totaly by disposable income then it comes as little surprise in the current climate that people just dont have the money to spend which in turn reflects the nuber of venues who are actually booking live bands.

I currently live in Sheffield South Yorkshire and run a 9 piece top quality function band including horn section, keys, male and fem vocalists and produce a quality and authentic Motown show which most people would have thought had a great market but sadly this is not the case ..Mainly down to the costs of a client/agent hiring such a large band .... fine if you want to play for virtually nothing, we could perform every night and many acts are now being exploited by both agents and venues to the extreme. ...indeed i have heard of musicians actually paying to perform and passing ahat round atthe end of the evening! 

It will come full circle but the question everyone is asking is how long it will take.

From the feedback so far I do not believe that musicians and performers could actually make a respectable income working in Cyprus and of course there is also an issue which comes accross perhaps as a grey area regarding Brits actually getting paid for performing! This apparentlycontravines the rules or residency to some extent and can lead to deportation....but i cant seem to get an absolute clarification on this. 

I would be interested to learn of your findings when you visit Cyprus and would welcome a chat on the phone 
I can be reached at Topbanduka'aol.com and can email you my landline number with pleasure. 

Best regards 
Geoff 

Geoff 




MalcolmH said:


> Hi Geoff
> 
> I am in a similar position to you, I think.
> 
> ...


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

Veronica said:


> What difference is using backing and things like Karaoke?
> It is a very popular form of entertainment wherever you find tourists. The original artists don't get paid royalties for the use of their records.


I have to confess I have not been to many Karaoke places & the odd occasion I have had the misfortune to (because other friends wanted to visit them) I have mostly seen intoxicated people making fools of them selves under the mistaken belief they could sing. Alcohol brings out the worst in most people.

I am not referring to the Karaoke bars seen only in Cyprus but almost all corners of the globe seem to have them, as they usually provide a cheap form of entertainment for the venue just the same as talent quests do.


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Malcolm...sligght typing error on my email add; please try 
topbanduk at aol dot com 

Regards 
Geoff 



Topbanduk said:


> Hi Malcolm, good to hear from you, thanks for contacting me.
> 
> Yes i have to agree the responses so far havent exactly been encouraging.
> 
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

anski said:


> I have to confess I have not been to many Karaoke places & the odd occasion I have had the misfortune to (because other friends wanted to visit them) I have mostly seen intoxicated people making fools of them selves under the mistaken belief they could sing. Alcohol brings out the worst in most people.
> 
> I am not referring to the Karaoke bars seen only in Cyprus but almost all corners of the globe seem to have them, as they usually provide a cheap form of entertainment for the venue just the same as talent quests do.



People in general love a bit of karaoke tho and as you say its cheap - alot cheaper and easier than getting a band in!!!! And lets not forget, this isnt about bands showing off their talents, this is about entertainment and venues making money. Sadly, the recession is causing too many forms of entertainment, fighting over a diminishing percentage of folk wishing to be entertained

Jo xxx


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

I wouldnt entirely agree ...
Karaoke represents an ideal form of cheap entertaienment especially for small venues for such as pubs...but really, how entertaining is a bunch of crooners who couldnt sing to save their lives ... its more amusement than entertainment and a bad set of "so called singers" could empty a venue ...not fill it





jojo said:


> People in general love a bit of karaoke tho and as you say its cheap - alot cheaper and easier than getting a band in!!!! And lets not forget, this isnt about bands showing off their talents, this is about entertainment and venues making money. Sadly, the recession is causing too many forms of entertainment, fighting over a diminishing percentage of folk wishing to be entertained
> 
> Jo xxx


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

While I agree that the majority of people who get up and sing at Karaoke are drunks who cannot sing I have been dragged into Karoake bars on a few occassions by visitors and have been surprised that there are actually a few very good singers out there.
I have found myself cringing at some terrible croaking drunk one minute and being amazed at someone with an amazing voice the next. 
Not everyone with talent has the fortune to be in the right place at the time right to make it in the music industry.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Topbanduk said:


> I wouldnt entirely agree ...
> Karaoke represents an ideal form of cheap entertaienment especially for small venues for such as pubs...but really, how entertaining is a bunch of crooners who couldnt sing to save their lives ... its more amusement than entertainment and a bad set of "so called singers" could empty a venue ...not fill it



I dont necessarily agree with it either, in fact I've only ever been to a Karaoke place once and it certainly wasnt what I'd call fun, but it works in a lot of places and has become a bit of a trend - sadly!!!! ............ and its cheap, which is the whole point when clubs etc are struggling!

Jo xxx


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## anski (Aug 17, 2008)

Veronica said:


> While I agree that the majority of people who get up and sing at Karaoke are drunks who cannot sing I have been dragged into Karoake bars on a few occassions by visitors and have been surprised that there are actually a feww very good singers out there.
> I have found myself cringing at some terrible croaking drunk one minute and being amazed at someone with an amazing voice the next.
> Not everyone with talent has the fortune to be in the right place at the time right to make it in the music industry.



I agree with you on this. When they're good it's a pleasure, but when they are dreadful it's a long night


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*Hi M*



MalcolmH said:


> Hi Anski and McZ
> 
> Believe me, I totally get what you are saying about using backing tracks and that it's a slippery slope for both the person using them, other musicians and live music as a whole.
> 
> ...


Again I am with you & on most points & i happen to like all music from 60's through early 80's & love playing the great standard Rock covers I call that FUN & yes it is the entertainment business we are in so we entertain, I stand by the old saying He who pays the piper calls the tune.


I also see no problem in good solo acts I still remember Carley Simon sitting on the stage wowing the audience of 1000's just with a guitar,, but what is happening today is there an ignorance within the masses & this is being perpetuated by the record company execs to their own end, this fact is well known by pro musicians. 

Record labels are trying to pull of the scam of the century they want to do away with live players or at least cut them down to minimum so they can earn higher profits & pay less royalties, we could all name act that cant do live shows because they don't have the talent & thanks to knob twiddelers they become stars, THAT'S why so many artists have started their own labels.

The other sad & sour note about this course of action is, that there is a generation of people that don't know what LIVE performance is about as a teacher of music I meet lots of kids who think that live performance is some idiot spinning other peoples records OR CD's Backwards with flashing lights is live performance & this is what music is becoming.

I remember once hearing a wise man say "That the day canned music takes over we will loose our passion & creativeness & we will live in a violent world (Sound Familiar?): when music live performance of this art form dies & it will, the house the house dies with it "

Yes there is a revolution going on out there led by young & old & I am proud to say I am a part of it so KEEP MUSIC A-LIVE & let your kids sit in dingy rooms with friends & try to come up with that new sound that will leave a mark on the minds & hearts of nations, we will all be better off spiritually & be happier for their efforts & who knows we may just have another set of songs to play for generations to come like, Mustang Sally or Still Got the Blues (RIP Gary). 

PS. Sorry about the side track I just want to let you in on what's been going on at the level I have been working at for 45 years, I am just a drummer who has seen the best of times & the worst so I do speak with some authority when it come to being a Pro musician & would never venture an opinion on any corporate activities in spite of the fact I did a MBA at 40, music is all I have ever done.

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR JOURNEY TO CYP.


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## MalcolmH (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for the further comments, McZ - I do get your point of view and fully subscribe to the principles of what you are suggesting.

I did feel a little ambushed when I mentioned the whole backing tracks issue in passing and the 'corporate type' jibe felt a bit harsh. I reversed into the corporate world almost by accident and still have little in common with those folk who make their lives revolve around the whole corporate identity. Yes, I managed to save a few bob to enable me to have some more flexibility in what I do with the rest of my life, but I don't identify with the demonising image of a wolfish fat cat descending on defenceless musicians and taking their livelihood because he can work for nothing. It's an easy target, but it ain't me!

I actually really rather enjoy doing functions and no matter how many times I've done 'the classics', I still find something new to explore or just settle back and enjoy pumping out high quality, good times music. Of course, the joy of a band is that if you've got the right make-up of guys, you can vary your approach within each number no matter how hackneyed the tune, depending on mood, the audience and so on. It's one of the main reasons I like to perform jazz, as well, in that at its very heart it is the musicians creating a new spin on a set of changes that may have been played thousands of times before, but never in quite that tempo or key or number of choruses and variations etc etc.

Thanks for following up and for the good wishes on the journey to Cyprus.

Cheers

Malcolm


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes, well this is all going a tad off topic now. So lets not stray too far away from "musicians in cyprus

Jo xxx


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*Oops*

The corp jibe was not at you I used it to generalise as no one else mentioned what they did before I commented & I have no problems with you doing gigs, I encourage it as it will keep your juices flowing & keep you young, just dont do as so many do & undercut guys who need to live from music, is all I am saying & you will have a great time working with some great guys in CYP.

PS. Give The Giant Bulgarian Bass player with Zacsus Ncholai a big HUG from me he is one hell of a player & all round nice guy & you will be blown away with Kosta's playing.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

McZ said:


> The corp jibe was not at you I used it to generalise as no one else mentioned what they did before I commented & I have no problems with you doing gigs, I encourage it as it will keep your juices flowing & keep you young, just dont do as so many do & undercut guys who need to live from music, is all I am saying & you will have a great time working with some great guys in CYP.
> 
> PS. Give The Giant Bulgarian Bass player with Zacsus Ncholai a big HUG from me he is one hell of a player & all round nice guy & you will be blown away with Kosta's playing.


.... thats if there are any gigs to be had, which was apparently what was being said earlier on in the thread lol!!!!! 

Jo xxx


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*Jo*

There are gig but you are up against it & the Hotels know it, so they for want of a better word rape you financially & in some cases they don't even pay the guys for 6 to 10 weeks if they do get the gig knowing that the musicians are at a disadvantage, this is one of the problems that never sat well with me.

The is an Irish duo that does well but they had to work hard on getting it developed in the beginning they were barely making rent but the aimed their attention to the wedding market with some success.:juggle:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

McZ said:


> There are gig but you are up against it & the Hotels know it, so they for want of a better word rape you financially & in some cases they don't even pay the guys for 6 to 10 weeks if they do get the gig knowing that the musicians are at a disadvantage, this is one of the problems that never sat well with me.
> 
> The is an Irish duo that does well but they had to work hard on getting it developed in the beginning they were barely making rent but the aimed their attention to the wedding market with some success.:juggle:


I guess once established and known to be good at pulling in the punters, then the roles reverse lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*hi Jo*

If that were true it would be nice but the reverse is true. some places don't care what you play like as long as you are cheap & the punters dont seem to know the difference & that's a worry.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

McZ said:


> If that were true it would be nice but the reverse is true. some places don't care what you play like as long as you are cheap & the punters dont seem to know the difference & that's a worry.


Maybe thats cos holiday makers are a transient market??? In which case, it seems logical to have a backing track and a couple of people singing, then everyones happy lol - we're going round in circles here arent we!!!

Jo xxx


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> Maybe thats cos holiday makers are a transient market??? In which case, it seems logical to have a backing track and a couple of people singing, then everyones happy lol - we're going round in circles here arent we!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Yep I don't think this thread is going anywhere new.


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*Jo*

Round,
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel thats turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on it's face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Have a nice day


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

*NO*



Veronica said:


> Yep I don't think this thread is going anywhere new.



NO it's not, unless you are a Pro musician or a player of music, but to people that are it's an invaluable insight to what's happening in Cyprus & world wide in the business.

I take it that you are not a musician?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

McZ said:


> NO it's not, unless you are a Pro musician or a player of music, but to people that are it's an invaluable insight to what's happening in Cyprus & world wide in the business.
> 
> I take it that you are not a musician?


 I think you'll find we've more than answered the original posters questions. Alot of my friends and a few members of my family are musicians of various levels, genre, success ....!

Jo xxx


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## McZ (Apr 8, 2011)

Yes I think you are correct about the question being answered & I hope we hellped him get some idea as to what to expect in Cyprus.

Have a nice day 
W.McZ


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## Topbanduk (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi,

Yes ...I too hope he may be a little wiser.. 

From what I can gather ...There are opportunities to perform in Cyprus provided the musician isnt dependent on earning a living from his efforts..... and he /she should be able to support themselves by alternative means 

Geoff


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## cocoa (Oct 11, 2016)

Topbanduk said:


> Thanks for the feedback..phew! it doesnt sound good at all does it???
> 
> The UK is experiancig a similar situation with an ever diminishing number of venues cutting the amount they pay. I can support myself if i moved to Cyprus , its just a case of , I need something to do rather than sit around a pool all day every day. Are there not agents in Cyprus who can provide work for good bands?
> Even though tourism is down in all aspects of travel I would have thought there has to be a demand for live entertainment forthe people who go and stay abroad ....but I could be wrong.
> My brother went to Cyprus last year and visited several venues who were hosting live entertainment. He reported the entertainment was a terrible standard both vocaly and musically


Hi I am looking for a musician for the season 2017 in protaras area


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