# US citizen doing remote work for Australian company



## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

Here is a Monday headache. Even my attorney here in Spain is throwing his hands in the air. I'm a US citizen, 62, who qualifies now for Social Security benefits in the US but waiting till 65. I'm a permanent resident now of Spain and married to a UK citizen who is a pensioner, thus we are in the Spanish healthcare system at no monthly cost as he is a pensioner. I would like to do some contract IT work for a company in Australia which would be more or less listing myself as self employed and invoicing this company monthly for my services. In addition, I have done self employed contract work for a physician in the UK for the past 13 years, paying my UK tax and reporting to US for my IRS return. Having previously also worked in the UK for the NHS for 7 years, I can also qualify for the pension scheme there if I wish to make up the difference in contributions lacking when we moved to the States. 

Now here we are in Spain and I want to do this work for the Oz company, but everything I read tells me I must register as an autonomo here in Spain and pay into their SS system, up to 250Euros/month. I'd be lucky to make 250Euros/month with this job. I have no problems whatsoever paying tax to Spain for any income made, but since I already qualify for Social Security in the States, can claim for pension in the UK if I wish to further contribute, do I have to pay into the Social Security system in Spain regardless?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

plumeriachick said:


> Here is a Monday headache. Even my attorney here in Spain is throwing his hands in the air. I'm a US citizen, 62, who qualifies now for Social Security benefits in the US but waiting till 65. I'm a permanent resident now of Spain and married to a UK citizen who is a pensioner, thus we are in the Spanish healthcare system at no monthly cost as he is a pensioner. I would like to do some contract IT work for a company in Australia which would be more or less listing myself as self employed and invoicing this company monthly for my services. In addition, I have done self employed contract work for a physician in the UK for the past 13 years, paying my UK tax and reporting to US for my IRS return. Having previously also worked in the UK for the NHS for 7 years, I can also qualify for the pension scheme there if I wish to make up the difference in contributions lacking when we moved to the States.
> 
> Now here we are in Spain and I want to do this work for the Oz company, but everything I read tells me I must register as an autonomo here in Spain and pay into their SS system, up to 250Euros/month. I'd be lucky to make 250Euros/month with this job. I have no problems whatsoever paying tax to Spain for any income made, but since I already qualify for Social Security in the States, can claim for pension in the UK if I wish to further contribute, do I have to pay into the Social Security system in Spain regardless?


My advice would be to go to your local tax office directly and ask them. They are supposed to be qualified to tell you this after all. Ask them to write it down in some way as it's complex information and you'll need to refer to it in the future. That of course gives you "evidence" of what you were told.
If you don't want to go , send the attorney


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Just to further complicate matters; I don't think you can do work (and therefore become autonomo) whilst getting pensioner benefits.

In Spain, one can NOT claim a pension and still work - they are mutually exclusive.

ISTR


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## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

That is making things even more interesting. I am not getting any pensioner benefits at the moment. My UK husband is, however, and because he is a pensioner is entitled to Spain's healthcare system. This is becoming one huge mess.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

plumeriachick said:


> That is making things even more interesting. I am not getting any pensioner benefits at the moment. My UK husband is, however, and because he is a pensioner is entitled to Spain's healthcare system. This is becoming one huge mess.


But you said you were;



> married to a UK citizen who is a pensioner, thus we are in the Spanish healthcare system


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## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

True, but that is his pension, not mine. There is no pension in my name being paid out at the moment. Luckily, my attorney just got in contact, is on holiday at present, and will be looking into things. Again, I have no problem paying taxes, it's the paying into the social security system at such an astronomical cost that almost negates anyone wanting to work self employed in Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

plumeriachick said:


> True, but that is his pension, not mine. There is no pension in my name being paid out at the moment. Luckily, my attorney just got in contact, is on holiday at present, and will be looking into things. Again, I have no problem paying taxes, it's the paying into the social security system at such an astronomical cost that almost negates anyone wanting to work self employed in Spain.


As Pesky says, someone needs to talk to hacienda about your specific circumstances.

It is possible to work, pay tax & not be registered as autónomo if the income is very small & irregular. Of course not paying autónomo means no healthcare.

The bit I'm not sure about is you continuing to be in receipt of healthcare as the dependant of your husband, & being allowed to work at the same time.


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## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

And that has never been questioned by my attorney either. I qualified for the healthcare as his spouse and he is a UK pensioner. The incredibly small amt of work I have done for the UK physician is to the point of being negligible but has always been reported in UK/US. We have not had to file a return here as of yet but will be. It will be interesting to know the outcome of all this as I am sure there are many on here working remotely from home as self employed, for foreign companies.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

plumeriachick said:


> And that has never been questioned by my attorney either. I qualified for the healthcare as his spouse and he is a UK pensioner. The incredibly small amt of work I have done for the UK physician is to the point of being negligible but has always been reported in UK/US. We have not had to file a return here as of yet but will be. It will be interesting to know the outcome of all this as I am sure there are many on here working remotely from home as self employed, for foreign companies.


But surely, if you live here it's irrelevant who you do work for, it MUST be declared here


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## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

And that I have no problem with whatsoever. It is the payment into the social security system that will make any contract work not worth doing. Maybe with luck I will be deported. Regardless, I will post what I find out as info for others who might be in this situation.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> But surely, if you live here it's irrelevant who you do work for, it MUST be declared here


yes it should be declared in Spain. She should have invoiced the UK client & pay any income tax here - if she were here when she did the work. It sounds as if she was in the UK at the time though.



plumeriachick said:


> And that has never been questioned by my attorney either. I qualified for the healthcare as his spouse and he is a UK pensioner. The incredibly small amt of work I have done for the UK physician is to the point of being negligible but has always been reported in UK/US. We have not had to file a return here as of yet but will be. It will be interesting to know the outcome of all this as I am sure there are many on here working remotely from home as self employed, for foreign companies.


What counts is where you are, not where the clients are. I have done work for clients outside Spain, & *because I am in Spain, the income has to be declared in Spain.*


The reason I'm not sure about the healthcare & working issue, is that in Spain, you cannot be in receipt of pension benefits & work at the same time. 

You are of course entitled to be registered as your husband's dependant for healthcare. What I'm not sure about is whether that counts as a 'pension benefit' - so I'm not sure if you'd lose it if you worked.


For working without registering as autónomo, take a look at this Facturar sin ser autónomo | Ser autónomo


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I'm not sure if this helps at all....

Self-employed in Spain: When should you register as self-employed in Spain? | In English | EL PAÍS

Alcalaina posted it in an old thread and it certainly hints at the fact that if you earn under the minimum wage you shouldn't go Autonomo.
Ahh, but this is Spain and it is still not clear cut at all as sometimes you should register.

So depending on just what the work is and how much is earned you may not need to register at all, but maybe you do.
All you can really do is ask the tax man and hopefully get it in writing although it is likely better to get your lawyer to do the asking.


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## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

Good article and I have read that as well in the past. Previous work has been done in the UK and US and I have had absolutely no problem with either re National Insurance/Social Security contributions and tax as there is a tax treaty between the countries, and there is as well with Spain; it is the SS contribution amount that negates the whole point of trying to work some on a contract basis. I will let everyone know what the attorney/tax consultant says about it all but have a feeling it will not be worthwhile to do any type of work here. One can understand why so many work on a cash only basis in this country.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

plumeriachick said:


> Good article and I have read that as well in the past. Previous work has been done in the UK and US and I have had absolutely no problem with either re National Insurance/Social Security contributions and tax as there is a tax treaty between the countries, and there is as well with Spain; it is the SS contribution amount that negates the whole point of trying to work some on a contract basis. I will let everyone know what the attorney/tax consultant says about it all but have a feeling it will not be worthwhile to do any type of work here. One can understand why so many work on a cash only basis in this country.


Don't forget that the new startup scheme for autonomos starts at just 50€ per month.


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## plumeriachick (Mar 10, 2015)

Yes and that is very acceptable; however, that is short-term. Asking for payment of 250E/month more or less across the board as to one's gross income from self employment pretty much negates any benefit of trying to bring in a small extra income which would hence be put back into Spain's economy. That being said, I do understand Spain's need for money needed to go into their social services infrastructure provided to its citizens, but when you look at one's NI contribution in the UK if self employed, it's a bit overinflated and thus will deter persons like myself from trying to earn a few extra Euros that I would subsequently put back into the economy.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

plumeriachick said:


> Yes and that is very acceptable; however, that is short-term. Asking for payment of 250E/month more or less across the board as to one's gross income from self employment pretty much negates any benefit of trying to bring in a small extra income which would hence be put back into Spain's economy. That being said, I do understand Spain's need for money needed to go into their social services infrastructure provided to its citizens, but when you look at one's NI contribution in the UK if self employed, it's a bit overinflated and thus will deter persons like myself from trying to earn a few extra Euros that I would subsequently put back into the economy.


or, looking at it the other way, things like health care and pensions etc. shouldn't be based on ones earnings (like in UK) as they are pretty much a fixed cost. Personally, I feel the charges levied in Spain are more appropriate and are more likely to sustain the system (unlike in UK with NHS under-funding).

Just my views!


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