# Hasta la Visa Deutschland



## TuridduTenor (Apr 24, 2014)

First Post. Will attempt to be succinct. 

Marital Status: *Legally separated 2yrs*, Divorce imminent
Residency in German: *2005-present*
Work visa *expires May 2014*

My partner and I are professional musicians. We currently live in Paris though I never filed an abmeldung when my wife and I separated. This summer, my partner and I will be working in the US, and then in August will *move to Belgium permanently* where she has been offered a full time job with an opera company there. She did not have a work visa these last 8 months living in Paris, but will certainly acquire one now to be able to assume her full time post in Belgium.

My employment opportunities are in flux at the moment, therefore I will not be able to provide the Belgium authorities with as much documentation of coming work as I did for my move to Germany from the US. Professionally I am well established, and have worked freelance in Belgium quite a bit over the last decade.

1. What are the implications of the German visa expiring in the next month, and how do they relate to a move to Belgium in August for an American citizen?

2. Would it be better to maintain residency in Germany, since I work in both countries often, and could just easily file for another 2 year visa? How would that play out in my taxes?

3. What benefits are there in getting married to my current partner in terms of visa applications and health benefits?

Thanks in advance. Cheers.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Some non-expert advice:

1. The German visa probably has no relevance at all for Belgium, so it's expiry would be a non-issue. As far as I know, EU rules for labour mobility only apply to EU/EEA nationals. A work visa in one country doesn't give you rights to do anything but visit another. 

2. Presumably then you'd be a German resident (and tax resident) who works freelance in Germany; if Belgium allows you to work freelance there will billing as a German resident, great. If you actually moved to Belgium but stayed angemeldet at your German address and renewed your German visa, that would work as long as nobody caught on - at some point the Ausländerbehörde might wonder why you're not permanently based in Germany, at which point you'd probably be in trouble.

3. Assuming your partner is non-EU, then there's likely no advantage to being married, because being a non-EU trailing spouse of a non-EU person with a Belgian work visa probably entitles you to nothing - but ultimately that's a question for the Belgian authorities.


If you've been in Germany since 2005 do you not have some super-duper permanent residence status by now? You could probably even apply for citizenship, which would greatly simplify matters.


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## TuridduTenor (Apr 24, 2014)

Nononymous said:


> Some non-expert advice:
> 
> 1. The German visa probably has no relevance at all for Belgium, so it's expiry would be a non-issue. As far as I know, EU rules for labour mobility only apply to EU/EEA nationals. A work visa in one country doesn't give you rights to do anything but visit another.
> 
> ...


Thank you Non.

1. :hand: FYI, Even as an American citizen my German work has always allowed me to work freelance within all EU countries, except Italy for some reason. Dunno why that is... But for residency sake, I would certainly have to switch to Belgium if I gave up German residency.

2. I think legal advise IS in order here. Anyone have any ideas what the measurements are for Long Term Residency in Germany? Is it simple 'time served' or tied to language comprehension, etc? Note to self, speak to a lawyer about residency.

3. But being a married EU resident to another resident gives combined health care benefits, correct?


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

> 2. I think legal advise IS in order here. Anyone have any ideas what the measurements are for Long Term Residency in Germany? Is it simple 'time served' or tied to language comprehension, etc? Note to self, speak to a lawyer about residency.


The basic info is out there and easily gegooglt. You don't need to go to a lawyer straight away. 



> 3. But being a married EU resident to another resident gives combined health care benefits, correct?


I don't think so; or perhaps better phrased, not necessarily. Benefit schemes vary greatly from country to country. If your partner has insurance through work, you might get it as a dependent with or without marriage. But typically there's no free national scheme that you immediately qualify for merely by being resident (for example, Brits who retire early to France or Spain need to pay for private coverage until they hit 65 and can use UK insurance outside the country).


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

TuridduTenor said:


> Thank you Non.
> 
> 1. :hand: FYI, Even as an American citizen my German work has always allowed me to work freelance within all EU countries, except Italy for some reason. Dunno why that is... But for residency sake, I would certainly have to switch to Belgium if I gave up German residency.
> 
> ...


That any form of German work permit would give rights to work in any other EU country is news to me but maybe it's a freelance thing. Happy to learn something new. 

Technically, any German residence permit loses its validity once you stayed outside of Germany for more than six months unless you informed the authorities beforehand. That they are unlikely to notice as long as you stay within the Schengen zone is a different matter.

I am quite sure that you could have applied for an unlimited permit after five years of residency or thereabouts. Although even the unlimited permit does not allow stays outside of Germany that exceed six months, unless you make prior arrangements with your local Ausländerbehörde and carry a Fiktionsbescheinigung when returning.

Basic German language skills are one of the requirements, as well as not relying on public funds. 

After eight years of residence, you could have applied for citizenship (after passing the language and citizenship test) but that also requires a job contract in Germany, not sure how it would work with freelance work. And you'd have to renounce your American citizenship. The whole process also takes a few months, so wouldn't be a quick fix.

Just to get this straight - your wife (ex-wife?) is still living in Germany and you want to move to Belgium with your new partner, who is a non-EEA national?

How long have you been cohabiting and do you have paperwork to prove this?

EDIT: Getting married would mean that you could apply for a spouse/dependent visa and don't have to rely on freelance work. In Germany that would also entitle you to free healthcare on your spouse's health insurance if you don't have an income yourself. I don't know how this works in Belgium, though.


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## TuridduTenor (Apr 24, 2014)

ALKB said:


> That any form of German work permit would give rights to work in any other EU country is news to me but maybe it's a freelance thing. Happy to learn something new.


I always had to provide an A1 (e101) when working, but that (i believe) has to do with health insurance, yes? Anyway, that is correct, except for Italy, I never was made to get a work visa, even while singing at ROH in London. (Now I'm starting to get worried big brother is reading and I'm going to hear a knock on my door...)




> Technically, any German residence permit loses its validity once you stayed outside of Germany for more than six months unless you informed the authorities beforehand. That they are unlikely to notice as long as you stay within the Schengen zone is a different matter.
> 
> I am quite sure that you could have applied for an unlimited permit after five years of residency or thereabouts. Although even the unlimited permit does not allow stays outside of Germany that exceed six months, unless you make prior arrangements with your local Ausländerbehörde and carry a Fiktionsbescheinigung when returning.


Holy mackeral. Now I really AM getting worried about big bro. I've broken this rule so much it's not even funny. Stays in the US, stays in other EU countries...someone is not tracking this stuff if that is the requirement. I had no idea this was the case. It appears, boys and girls, even what I have is no longer valid. So, perhaps back to the drawing board.



> Just to get this straight - your wife (ex-wife?) is still living in Germany and you want to move to Belgium with your new partner, who is a non-EEA national?


Soon to be Ex lives in Germany, correct. Also correct on partner. US citizen. She will be helped with her visa issues by her employer. Me, having a slow rest of the year professionally, can only provide contracts for 2015, outside the scope of a one year residency permit. Which leads me to your very good news below...



> How long have you been cohabiting and do you have paperwork to prove this?


Paperwork means??? Something other then Facebook status?  What type of paperwork would that be? Bank statements, utility bills, phone bills with our names on them?



> EDIT: Getting married would mean that you could apply for a spouse/dependent visa and don't have to rely on freelance work. In Germany that would also entitle you to free healthcare on your spouse's health insurance if you don't have an income yourself. I don't know how this works in Belgium, though.


In Germany, I believe precludes me from working. My wife used that tactic when we arrived in 2005, but it gave her no right to work. I would need that right in the coming year. I wonder what Belgium provides? 

Thank you for the input. While this is not giving me the precise answers I need, I feel like I'm gathering the right questions. I very much appreciate the help. Keep it coming, if you are inclined.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

TuridduTenor said:


> Holy mackeral. Now I really AM getting worried about big bro. I've broken this rule so much it's not even funny. Stays in the US, stays in other EU countries...someone is not tracking this stuff if that is the requirement. I had no idea this was the case. It appears, boys and girls, even what I have is no longer valid. So, perhaps back to the drawing board.


It means more than six months at a time. You could leave Germany for five months, come back for a week or so, stay out five months, etc. Usually this is only picked up on when leaving Germany through an airport and entering Germany through an airport again. If you did do so and nobody said anything, it might be because Americans don't necessarily need a visa to enter Germany for up to 90 days. 

But yes, if you spent the last 8 months in Paris, your German permit is indeed invalid. The authorities might not have noticed, though.

A friend of mine had an indefinite permit in her Turkish passport since she was a young child and thought it was indeed "indefinite". After a year of working as an au pair girl in the US, she was nearly denied entry and put on a plane to Turkey because she had no valid visa to enter Germany and her indefinite permit was invalid because she had been out of the country for a year. They gave her permission to stay for two days (!) to sort things out with the Ausländerbehörde which nearly didn't happen because she was no longer in school or had a job in Germany and just about too old to be considered dependent on her parents. When she later applied for citizenship this was also a major headache, took nearly two years to get through and her application was nearly refused.




TuridduTenor said:


> Soon to be Ex lives in Germany, correct. Also correct on partner. US citizen. She will be helped with her visa issues by her employer. Me, having a slow rest of the year professionally, can only provide contracts for 2015, outside the scope of a one year residency permit. Which leads me to your very good news below...
> 
> 
> Paperwork means??? Something other then Facebook status?  What type of paperwork would that be? Bank statements, utility bills, phone bills with our names on them?


Rental contract with both of your names, police registrations, utility bills, phone bills, mobile phone contracts with the same address, any sort of correspondence in your and/or her name that puts you in the same place at the same time.

I think Belgium recognises durable relationships akin to marriage for immigration purposes but the exact paperwork needed would be a question for the Belgian Embassy or the local authorities in Belgium.



TuridduTenor said:


> In Germany, I believe precludes me from working. My wife used that tactic when we arrived in 2005, but it gave her no right to work. I would need that right in the coming year. I wonder what Belgium provides?


In Germany it depends on the spouse's work contract and salary and it only applies to the first three years of stay in Germany (after the first year this is also somewhat subject to the case worker's discretion) but this is domestic German immigration/labour law. You'd have to investigate how Belgium views the right of work of dependents of people on work permit. In the UK for instance, dependents get full rights to work right away.


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## beppi (Jun 10, 2013)

In addition to the above, it is also an offense to keep your registration ((German "Anmeldung") at a place you do no longer live at. You have, I think, two weeks after moving to inform them - and this includes moves abroad and second residences.
If you really forgot your Abmeldung when you moved out of your wife's place, you should do this now ASAP and hope they haven't yet noticed (better don't tell that you actually moved more than two weeks ago!).


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

beppi said:


> In addition to the above, it is also an offense to keep your registration ((German "Anmeldung") at a place you do no longer live at. You have, I think, two weeks after moving to inform them - and this includes moves abroad and second residences.
> If you really forgot your Abmeldung when you moved out of your wife's place, you should do this now ASAP and hope they haven't yet noticed (better don't tell that you actually moved more than two weeks ago!).


Not that this should be an excuse or anything, particularly for those who've lived in the country for almost a decade, but from personal experience the authorities are pretty tolerant of North Americans who've forgotten to Abmeld. The concept is completely alien to us. We've forgotten twice (once legitimately, once intentionally because of school registration for a future sabbatical visit) and both times it was a polite "oops, naughty" from the friendly Beamter.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

beppi said:


> In addition to the above, it is also an offense to keep your registration ((German "Anmeldung") at a place you do no longer live at. You have, I think, two weeks after moving to inform them - and this includes moves abroad and second residences.
> If you really forgot your Abmeldung when you moved out of your wife's place, you should do this now ASAP and hope they haven't yet noticed (better don't tell that you actually moved more than two weeks ago!).


Not to mention that other EEA countries have their own laws about registration and most require such a registration if a stay exceeds 90 days. (Or even less in case of citizens moving within their own country.)

I don't think a German freelance visa exempts the OP from laws that apply to absolutely everybody else, including nationals of the respective country and EEA nationals.

If he provides documents to the Belgian authorities showing cohabitation for eight months with his partner in Paris, I think they would normally ask to see his titre de séjour for that time period. 

Maybe not. I'd be surprised, though.


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