# latest security alerts by US State Dept for Jalisco



## kliebetanz (Jun 2, 2010)

Can anyone please comment on the latest security alerts that have been issued by, among others, the US consulate in Guadalajara about rise in crime in Guadalajara as well as other places in Jalisco.
It was mentioned that buses in Guadalajara are unsafe to take because of hold-ups on some of those buses?
It was also mentioned that a shoot out happened a few days ago on the highway from Puerto Vallarta to Guadalajara between police/security forces and gangsters.
We are thinking of moving to Puerto Vallarta, so we would like to assess in realistic terms what security threats we might have to face either in Puerto Vallarta directly or in Jalisco in general and how those threats would directly impact daily life in Puerto Vallarta.
The other contention in one of the articles online that was made, also by the US consulate, was that the authorities are not reporting the true numbers of crimes comitted. Is this true, and what might that mean for a realistic picture of the security situation in PV and Jalisco? 
Thank you so very much for your comments


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

It seems since El Chapo's arrest things have been changing in Jalisco...
Earlier this month ( the 7th) a group of gangsters / cartel roadblocked Highway 70 by setting some cars on fire and ambushed the police upon arrival...16 police killed......


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

kliebetanz said:


> Can anyone please comment on the latest security alerts that have been issued by, among others, the US consulate in Guadalajara about rise in crime in Guadalajara as well as other places in Jalisco.
> It was mentioned that buses in Guadalajara are unsafe to take because of hold-ups on some of those buses?
> It was also mentioned that a shoot out happened a few days ago on the highway from Puerto Vallarta to Guadalajara between police/security forces and gangsters.
> We are thinking of moving to Puerto Vallarta, so we would like to assess in realistic terms what security threats we might have to face either in Puerto Vallarta directly or in Jalisco in general and how those threats would directly impact daily life in Puerto Vallarta.
> ...


I get those state dept emails every so often (we are in Morelos). For over 2 years they have been warning of travelling in Cuernavaca / Morelos. It never changes - kind of cut and paste. A couple years back some embasey employees (?) encountered some 'hostiles' - ever since - stay away. I would suggest be aware - but don't let their stale info deter you.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

kliebetanz said:


> Can anyone please comment on the latest security alerts that have been issued by, among others, the US consulate in Guadalajara about rise in crime in Guadalajara as well as other places in Jalisco.
> It was mentioned that buses in Guadalajara are unsafe to take because of hold-ups on some of those buses?
> It was also mentioned that a shoot out happened a few days ago on the highway from Puerto Vallarta to Guadalajara between police/security forces and gangsters.
> We are thinking of moving to Puerto Vallarta, so we would like to assess in realistic terms what security threats we might have to face either in Puerto Vallarta directly or in Jalisco in general and how those threats would directly impact daily life in Puerto Vallarta.
> ...


We have lived in Metropolitan Guadalajara for some 15 years and have visited Puerto Vallarta on a few occasions althouh not so much recently s we moved in 2008 to San Cristóbal de Las Casa, Chiapas wher we now live about half of each year and here is our take:

* Both Guadalajara and Puerto Vallarta and communities in between those two towns are pretty safe but I wouldn´t be driving off onto rural roads with which I was unfamiliar if I were you. Law enforcement is tentative to non-existent at best in isolated áreas anywhere in Mexico and it is important to remember that, in Mexico, you are on your own. If you cannot handle this sort of "self-sufficiency" understanding that your debilitating injury from an assault is your problem, then do not come here - especially if you intend to be a road warrior to frequent isolated regions. This is not a joke and not to be taken lightly. We drive some 16,000 kilometers roundtrip between Lake Chapala and the Chiapas Highlands every year mainly on autopistas and we do not take the excursions without considerable anxiety but we do it anyway, cautiously.
* Mexico is far more violent than the government or press will ever inform you. Sickening violence, especially against the weak or vulnerable, is rampant and uncontrolled in a lawless environment where impunity rules but, what the hell, we have resided here as retirees since 2001 in both Jalisco and Chiapas and we are still alive living in aclimate and omong beauty close to God´s presumed perfection and we could have chose in retirement to freeze our asses off in Norway or sweat bullets in North Africa but this is our place.
s
Why is it that the nicest places on the planet with the most pleasant climates produce the most difficult people present societal difficulties while regions exhibiting polite discourse are in cold, misearable crapholes surounded , for Christ´s Sake by people who consider the sun to be an odd and infrequent attraction.


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## modeeper (Mar 21, 2015)

I'll never understand what is safe and what isn't, how to avoid danger. It's a matter out of our control. It belongs in the realm of the laws of probability. 

We'd have to agree being in our homes is safer than traveling on a Mexican highway .. or any highway, anywhere in the World. 

I read an article, somewhat academically written, that claimed your chances of being struck by lightning is far greater then being a foreigner, abducted and harmed, anywhere in Mexico. 

A mosquito could bite you on the nose while driving and cause an accident as you lost control of the wheel swatting the thing.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

The State Department has to issue these warnings. If they didn't and something dire happened, all the gringos would ***** saying that they were never warned.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Actually you probably more in danger of dying in a car or bus accident than you are of being shot by banditos or cartels..


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## modeeper (Mar 21, 2015)

Could you imagine being in a bus rolling over with all that desperate humanity trampling one another trying to reach a broken window they could squeeze through? A horror movie. I'd rather take my chances locked in a closet eating yesterday's tortillas waiting to learn my fate.

I learned a good lesson in the 80's driving through Central America .. pick up hitchhiking soldiers. Nothin like some fire power! 

I'll tell y'all one way to increase your chances of survival while traveling .. know the road, stay rested, stay sober, have a plan B, a plan C and don't forget plan D. 

Buy what's called a _Baja Filter_. Put the petro nozzle into the filter, then the filter into the tank spout. Many of the remote Pemex' have filthy storage tanks, especially bad just after the refill tanker has been there .. there is a cloud of particles swimming around loose in there. Nothing like a broken down RV to attract the banditos eh?

.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

IMO, the U.S. Department of State Travel Warnings and advisories are the most honest and accurate of the warnings issued by several governments. Some people are in denial and attack/criticize such warnings as a knee-jerk reaction. I read the warnings/advisories together with other information and find them important to take into consideration. Do I travel based solely on those warnings? No. But to disregard them out of hand is ... foolish, IMO. These warnings are based on verifiable facts, not speculation.


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## modeeper (Mar 21, 2015)

And then you have cases like a guy I once met in Asia in the 80s. Born and raised in Northern Ireland, never once in his lifetime ever heard a gun shot nor a bomb blast. You could have been raised in a mountaintop community in Iceland and be an innocent by-stander victim to the only drive-by shooting in their history. 

Sure The SD issues warnings on the Internet cause they have to, or should, as mentioned. Your house could be struck by a crashing airliner while you're reading it. 

Ya have to admit, too much safety, harmony, Main Street apple pie 'n ice cream shops that close at dusk, Saturday Night Bingo, watching prime-time TV, Tupperware meet ups at Aunt Hilary's place is boring. Isn't that why we expats like to get away? 

Danger and the risks are character-building! Then when you do finally go home your war stories will impress and everyone will want to be your friend. 

.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

The State Department Advisories are just that, advisories, but they should be an important source for you to get the current picture of what type and where major problems exist with security in Mexico. They are always very accurate, and reflect what security prohibitions are placed on U.S. government personnel working in Mexico. I consider each one as I travel around Mexico, and back and forth to the U.S. Will the violence in and around P.V. affect your daily life there? I doubt it, if your daily life and preparations are like mine, or others, who have lived in Mexico many years. If you are not very aware that you are in a country having a war and where you can not depend on the police (as often they are a part of the problem), then you may have some problems. Good luck.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Here is a snippet from 12/24/14 (for some reason the last email I find in my inbox)

Morelos: Cuernavaca is a major city/travel destination in Morelos - Exercise caution in the state of Morelos due to the unpredictable nature of organized crime violence. You should also defer non-essential travel on any roads between Huitzilac in the northwest corner of the state and Santa Marta in the state of Mexico, including the Lagunas de Zempoala National Park and surrounding areas. Numerous incidents of organized crime-related violence have also occurred in the city of Cuernavaca. 

Here is a snippet from 1/14/14 (a year earlier !!)

Morelos: Cuernavaca is a major city/travel destination in Morelos - Exercise caution in the state of Morelos due to the unpredictable nature of TCO violence. You should also defer non-essential travel on any roads between Huitzilac in the northwest corner of the state and Santa Marta in the state of Mexico, including the Lagunas de Zempoala National Park and surrounding areas. On August 24, 2012 two USG employees were injured after being fired upon by Federal Police officers on a non-toll road north of Tres Marias, Morelos. Numerous incidents of narcotics-related violence have also occurred in the city of Cuernavaca.

Come on - August 2012. When are they going to issue the all clear ?

Can you imagine what a similar advisory prepared by the Mexican State Dept. would look like in describing the US ?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Cuerna1 the Mexican government does the same thing .We started getting messages when we entered Guatemala and Honduras. 

I think te warning are good for people who do not follow te news, they tell you were problems occured and then you do whatever you want, the problem is that it is all after the fact news and violence here is random , the cartels are here today and somewhere else tomorrow..same deal with the warning about terrorism in Europe so there is nothing predictable and if you live here you just go about what you need to do or want to do or you can stay in your home for fear something will happen...


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

cuerna1, they are ADVISORIES, issued for their personnel and anyone else who has interest in them. They are not issued for people who have no interest in them, or believe they are not correct. No one is forced to read them, nor follow them (except those who work for the U. S. government in Mexico). So, relax, don't waste your time with it, and let those of us who find them useful and helpful continue to do our thing, as we see it. For those who have no experience in Mexico with security issues, it is probably the only help they can find, as everyone here has their own "colored" glasses when they reply to posters. We can not guarantee that our experiences here in Mexico will be the same for someone new and inexperienced.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

coondawg said:


> cuerna1, they are ADVISORIES, issued for their personnel and anyone else who has interest in them. They are not issued for people who have no interest in them, or believe they are not correct. No one is forced to read them, nor follow them (except those who work for the U. S. government in Mexico). So, relax, don't waste your time with it, and let those of us who find them useful and helpful continue to do our thing, as we see it. For those who have no experience in Mexico with security issues, it is probably the only help they can find, as everyone here has their own "colored" glasses when they reply to posters. We can not guarantee that our experiences here in Mexico will be the same for someone new and inexperienced.


coondawg : according to their advisory - this is one of the principal reasons you should worry about traveling to Morelos.

2 U.S. government workers shot in Mexico - The Washington Post

I wonder what they were up to, that they couldn't stop when they were asked, and that required them to be driving around in an armored SUV.

Perhaps the advisory should say - when confronted by the federal police and asked to stop - do so - and do not attempt to flee - or you may be shot.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

cuerna1 said:


> Perhaps the advisory should say - when confronted by the federal police and asked to stop - do so - and do not attempt to flee - or you may be shot.


We make our own decisions about how we travel in Mexico, based on the informed sources we use. We do not second guess them , nor do we use sources who believe the U.S. Advisory is bunk. Nothing personal intended.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

coondawg said:


> We make our own decisions about how we travel in Mexico, based on the informed sources we use. We do not second guess them , nor do we use sources who believe the U.S. Advisory is bunk. Nothing personal intended.


Nice teeth. I hope by WE you mean you and your family.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Longford said:


> IMO, the U.S. Department of State Travel Warnings and advisories are the most honest and accurate of the warnings issued by several governments. Some people are in denial and attack/criticize such warnings as a knee-jerk reaction. I read the warnings/advisories together with other information and find them important to take into consideration. Do I travel based solely on those warnings? No. But to disregard them out of hand is ... foolish, IMO. These warnings are based on verifiable facts, not speculation.


Actually, Longford, my experience differs from yours and I speak as a U.S. ex-federal government regulatory officer for many years. U.S. Federal agencies are notoriously inaccurate and cowardly in presenting social data warning of dangers or extolling the virtues of places under alternative sovereign governments whether Mexico or Niger or France. These spineless bureaucrats love to pretend to understand polítical or social issues in places over which they have no direct control but their assessments are tinged by racial hubris. For example, things are fine and civilized in France but Mexico is a sewer beset by gangsterism and corruption. These are assessments colored by ethnic preferences and not to be taken seriously. 

We have lived as retirees in Mexico for 15 years in both the Lake Chapala Región and Highland Chiapas. The U.S. government will tell you that Jalisco State, where Lake Chapala is mainly located, is a dangerous stew of uncontrolled narco gangsters while Chiapas is not on any of their lists of places considered dangerous to passers-through. Nonsense. Chiapas is violent and untstable and far more anarchic than Jalisco. We know because we physically reside in both places about six months every year and are involved in both very disparate communities.

In both Jalisco and Chiapas I try not to really piss anybody off unecessarily just for the sake of survival but I would rather irritate someone in Jalisco anyday than get on the nerves of some indigenous fellow carrying a machete I meet on some lonely trail in the Lacandon Forest. 

The morons in the U.S. Government who, reposing upon their desks , warn us about where to venture and tell us Jalisco is violent while Chiapas is peaceful and they have no idea what they are talking about. 

I love both Jalisco and Chiapas but the unitiated in either place should exercise appropriate caution in dealing with locals.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

>> The morons in the U.S. Government who, reposing upon their desks , warn us about where to venture and tell us Jalisco is violent while Chiapas is peaceful and they have no idea what they are talking about. 

I'll stop short of calling them morons - and I hope they are US embassy employees in DF - but I do believe they are bureaucratic type folk who have been tasked with something that may be a little overwhelming . The point of my previous posts is that the advisories mis-represent reality. It is shameful for them to insight fear of travel to say - Lagunas de Zempoala - based on some off-the-wall event that happened three years ago. My wife and I are very adventurous people - to a fault - and we have hesitated to visit that location because of these 'alerts'.

Other than forums such as this (which I realize are social media-like) I have shied away from facebook, twitter etc. But I would subscribe to some sort of service that reported close to real-time notices of expat related/concerning events. What sort of things does the embassy become aware of ? If they are credible share them to interested subscribers. Stop reporting years old news as pertinent today.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

cuerna1 said:


> >> Stop reporting years old news as pertinent today.


This is not a place that can help you with that request.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

coondawg said:


> This is not a place that can help you with that request.


I'm afraid I find little value in your post without further enunciation. Are you suggesting that this forum, the US government or Mexico cannot provide more timely info ? No information is better than just posting information for the sake of accomplishing some assigned task. 

What are you hunting coondawg ?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

My mom always said "no news is good news" ! However, once, it was not. She no longer makes the comment.


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