# How do the Canadians obey the law?



## Irol (Jun 2, 2008)

Hello!

What kind of people are the Canadias?How do the obey the law?Are they as strict as Germans or as lenient as the Irish?

I'm also curious if in Canada exists any illegal job market like in the us.

I would be grateful for any opinion!

Thanks for your time!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Hm, interesting question and also interesting your points of reference. I don't think anyone is as strict about things as the Germans. Then again, the Germans have lots more laws than most other nations. And I'm not sure I'd have chosen the Irish as being the most lenient in law observance... but that's just my personal take.

It's just my impression, but I'd say Canadians are reasonably law-abiding, but you have to take into consideration the fact that things in Canada aren't nearly as tightly regulated as in many countries in Europe (say, for instance, Germany). 

I assume there is an illegal job market in Canada - though I can't say I've heard much about it. Again, the job market isn't as tightly regulated as in Germany (where holding a second job used to be illegal) and maybe it's just a matter of less rules and regulations to have to follow.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Irol (Jun 2, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum!
> 
> Hm, interesting question and also interesting your points of reference. I don't think anyone is as strict about things as the Germans. Then again, the Germans have lots more laws than most other nations. And I'm not sure I'd have chosen the Irish as being the most lenient in law observance... but that's just my personal take.
> 
> ...


Hi Bev!

How are you?

Thanks for your replay!

Well, I gave the example of the Irish,coz I've lived there for 2 years and I know that they don't really care about the law.The other thing is that their law is liberal,especially their economy is very liberal and with low taxes.It would be a great place to live but the weather in Ireland is terrible!Rain,rain and again rain!

Who would you give as an example of being the most lenient?I would like to go there

I agree with u that nobody is as strict as the Germans but I'm surprised that the Canadian job market isn't tightly regulated.I've never been in Canada (want to go some day and coz of that I'm here) but from outside it seems to be very tightly regulated.It's very difficult for unskilled workers to get a chance of working in Canada.They need to get a job offer from Canada first and then they could apply for a temporary work permission.I think it's extremely difficult to find a company from Canada who would go through all the paper work to hire a labourer from abroad.So I wouldn't say that the job market in Canada isn't tightly reagulated,especially for people from outside Canada

Thanks!

Have a nice day!

Irol


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

By tightly regulated, I was thinking more of the rules surrounding things like hiring and firing, which are much more like in the US than Europe. There aren't formal notice periods (AFAIK) and I don't believe there are legal requirements for things like severance pay when it comes to firings or lay-offs. I'm not certain if Canada has any legal requirement for paid vacation, though the norms are a bit better than in the US (I've heard 3 weeks, rather than just 2). I'm not certain if Canadians normally have job contracts, as is common in most of Europe. (They sure don't bother with them in the US.)

From my own experience, I'd say the French ignore at least half the laws on the books - but as a foreigner here, I can't tell you how they figure out which half they can safely ignore. And my husband (a French guy) claims that the Italians don't bother following any of their laws, though I suspect he may have had a bad experience in Italy long before I met him. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## CanadianGal (Dec 7, 2007)

What?Oh I just can't agree with that! My hubby had to take courses in employment laws/workers rights/employer's obligations for his management position and watch his every step in the process of managing employees. Many chances are given to employees except for severe offences(violence) and it is all documented with their knowledge. There are legal teams in bigger companies that counsel HR before they make any moves. Federal/provincial laws concerning dicipline, steps to getting fire, or making allowances. Or else companies get sued successfully. There are regulations about vacation and pay, and harrassment,racism laws, etc.... Much better maternity and parental leaves-even a leave to take care of sick family....
Mom and pop businesses often don't understand the laws enough and so get themselves in trouble sometimes. Or companies that are smaller in nature. Overtime pay and how its structured is laid out so you are not taken advantage of. 
Don't compare us with the US. States vary in regulation and workers rights. Hubby went down to Georgia 2 years ago, and it was almost beyond belief. He said it was like stepping back 50 years. The Canadians were ordered not to speak to the workers about our rules and rights here so we didn't give them "ideas". He saw huge, overt and sickening racial prejudice. People fired for just looking the wrong way if the boss didn't like it. And people fired for asking for 1 day off in several months of straight work. He saw parents scared of being fired and so little babies, toddlers were left in cars in back parking lots overnight(winter) because they didn't have a babysitter and could not miss work- or be fired. With great fear he found out they were scared to ask him if they could take a quick break(Of course he said-they looked in wonder!). He found out it was because they had to go check on their kids. Over and over again. They could get fired for the smallest thing(needing a sickday), even asking for their first day off in months to go to a sibling's wedding! This car company actually fired so easily and wouldn't work with the people's needs, that it resulted in not being able to find a workforce. Most of the folks from all around had already been fired and that disqualified them from trying again. The Canadians were disgusted and disturbed by what they saw in Georgia and many refused to go work there(in management to get the company out of trouble). The parent company regretted building a plant there because of the workforce problems and labour laws. They had been given incentives to build there to provide employment, but because of the State's backwards employment laws/methods they could not make it work. Other states may be more progressive(we hope). BUT this is not the way it is in Canada. Canada is much more progressive then the States in many ways(rights, freedoms, health)-but we are quiet about it. It is slightly ironic to Canadians seeing the US pound their chests about the land of the free...but maybe you have to live here as their *poor cousin* neighbour to get that insight....and see the difference. Canada is way ahead of the States in many areas. But not the military might-which they like to remind us. We call it the mouse living next to the elephant syndrome.
If anything, in Canada I have seen people who should have been fired kept employed because companies fear being sued for wrongful dismissal or I have seen people sue and win lots of $$$ when really the company was right to fire them but didn't cross their T's and dot their i's when they did it. Last one I knew got $40000 last year and he brought a tv/vcr and watched it in his office instead of supervising a manufacturing dept. Hm.
Why not research our work laws? You will be pleasantly surprised.
Labour
Most of us are lawabiding. One difference is we are not a people who race to sue-unlike the attitude in the States. Many times we could but are surprised by the thought. Except for wrongful dismissal, people don't look at a situation and figure whats in in for them by suing-generally speaking (like falling on ice outside a store). We are incredulous when people are idiot enough to break the laws(and there are always those people who do it). We are more about common sense and being fair. Not making a fuss or "in it for me" attitude. Courts are sensible that way too. You don't see the silly and stupendous awards in judgments for frivolous lawsuits. It takes alot to prove pain and suffering and doesn't pay the huge bucks as in the US. We aren't perfect, but we are pretty good!


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## Irol (Jun 2, 2008)

Thank you very much for yours opinions and time!

It's intresting what your wrote and that part about Georgia is unbelievable!How could it happen in 21st century??

So it seems the Canadian job market is regulated by the law as I thought.I guess that Bev lives in the us and she described the us job market instead of the canadian one.

CanadianGal you wrote that "We are more about common sense and being fair. Not making a fuss or "in it for me" attitude" I think it should be everywhere like that, not just the law but the people should be the most important.

In that context I would like to ask about people who work in Canada without Social Insurance Numbers.I ask about the people who really work hard for living and don't break the law in other areas of life, just haven't got the papers to work legally in Canada.How do the Canadians treat them?Do the Canadians treat them as criminals who should be deported,coz are dangerous to the society or try to help them?

I would appreciate any opinion in that subject!


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## oddball (Aug 1, 2007)

Irol said:


> Thank you very much for yours opinions and time!
> 
> It's intresting what your wrote and that part about Georgia is unbelievable!How could it happen in 21st century??
> 
> ...


 You want to work im Canada? Obey the rules.people like you that want or intend to buck the system are a blight on those that work and support the country,people like you are not needed anywhere in the world,you are SCUM of the first order.All of the honest people are providing the good life you EXPECT,KEEP THE H###K OUT.cOLIN


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Irol said:


> So it seems the Canadian job market is regulated by the law as I thought.I guess that Bev lives in the us and she described the us job market instead of the canadian one.


You're right in that I used to live in the US, but have passed through Canada a fair amount. The point is that Canada is certainly more regulated in the work place than the US - but less so than in most of Europe.

However, if you decide to go to Canada and try to work "under the table" or without the proper paperwork, you get yourself into the whole blackmarket scene, where there are less rules than in the deepest, darkest parts of Georgia. 

If you don't have the paperwork, you don't get any of the rights - and your employers are free to demand anything they want from you. There is an active sex trafficking trade in Canada (and everywhere else) - and it exists precisely because the "employers" aren't bound by the rules since they operate outside the law. If you work under the table, you have no recourse should your employer decide not to pay you, or to take back part of your pay or to ask you to do something illegal or dangerous.

The Canadians are a tolerant and kind hearted people (or so I have always found them) but they aren't going to pay your way for you if you're evading their laws, avoiding paying taxes (that they all pay) and then expecting them to bail you out of the trouble you've gotten yourself into.
Cheers,
Bev


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## CanadianGal (Dec 7, 2007)

Yes bev, I can't compare laws to Europe as I have never worked there. We do have more laws and requirements then you have heard about though. I wish hubby could reply as he is the guy who would have experience. I just hear about the experiences and rules as I am a homemaker. I won't say there aren't problems at times because indeed sometimes situations arise. It also depends on the kind of job a person has. Salaried vs hourly rate worker. Union or not. Temporary or fulltime ans so many other variables. Perhaps in Europe they provide the same for all manners of jobs. It is a complicated subject so I encourage people to look up the laws and regulations. Human resources dept of Canada is a great place to start. Also the provincial gov't should have access to that info. People could also ask at the Employment offices around their area. 
People feel for those trying to get a better way of life but do not support illegal immigrants. We know its hard and taxing to get into Canada and know many who have had to wait in line. We support them as it is not an easy road. You are putting yourself at great disadvantage as an illegal worker. Unfair employers have been known to provide substandard living condtitions and workers have died or at least, suffered with nowhere to turn to for help. You are left quite unprotected and badly paid in bad working conditions. If you need help you will not feel you can turn to police, or a hospital as they will discover your illegal status. You will be looking over your shoulder for when Immigration catches up with you and deports you. They can be slow but it does eventually happen. You will have to appeal to the worst sort for work and accomodations and pray you will get a decent person who is willing to look the other way. I would never recommend it. If you have children here then it really becomes a mess as we have seen in cases before. Parents get deported with a child. Or stuck in limbo here in basically a type of jail house setting, in a cell to raise the family while the gov't figures out what to do with the situation. You want a better life, try going the longer but more legitimate way-Thru the proper channels. Good luck.


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## Irol (Jun 2, 2008)

Bev and CanadianGal thanks a lot for your posts!

I know and understand that living as an illegal imigrant is dangerous and not wise but I didn't mean it.I was thinking about going legally as a tourist and trying to find a job in Canada personally and then get all the paper work done.I've sent many resumes to Canada but they don't want to hire anybody who is far away.If they replay, they say "you need to be here to be considered as a candidate".I uderstand them.It's simply too much hassle for a company to hire an ordinary labourer from Europe.So maybe personally it's easier?Probably with skilled workers it's not that bad but for labourers it's really difficult.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Irol said:


> I've sent many resumes to Canada but they don't want to hire anybody who is far away.If they replay, they say "you need to be here to be considered as a candidate".I uderstand them.It's simply too much hassle for a company to hire an ordinary labourer from Europe.So maybe personally it's easier?Probably with skilled workers it's not that bad but for labourers it's really difficult.


Glad to hear you're kidding about the illegal bit  - I've known my share of folks here in France who have gone that route.

You're right that you'll have a much better shot at finding a job if you are over there in person. Even for a skilled worker, it's not easy to get hired from overseas without making at least one trip (at your own expense) over to get in some "face time" with potential employers. It also can help if you can show an employer that you don't expect them to pay to move you over. (That is one big factor that puts them off hiring from overseas in the first place - why pay someone's moving costs if there are people they can hire who already live in the area?)

But be aware that it may take some time to find a job, and it may take more than one trip over there. As you learn more about the job market there, you'll come up with more ideas about how to make it "easy" for an employer to hire you.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Irol (Jun 2, 2008)

Bev thanks for giving me some hope

I know it won't be easy but want to try.I think you're right "why pay someone's moving costs if there are people they can hire who already live in the area?"I'll try to persuade potential employers that I would pay the costs myself and don't need their money.Hopefully I'll get more responses.

I'm just wondering which part of Canada is in biggest demand of workers?Is it still Alberta or other parts are developing faster?


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## joco69 (Dec 27, 2007)

This is all baloney, if you want to come and work in Canada and have the skills that are needed, you apply for immigrant status at your closest Canadian Delegation. You need to speak English, or French if Quebec is your destination.
If you have what we need you will be admitted.


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