# Lottery Clarifications and ESTA



## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

Hi All!

I am considering applying to the Diversity Visa Program this year, and after finding some conflicting or confusing info online (both on the official sites and a couple forums), I am bringing my doubts here hoping someone will have the chance to help me out before I enter my application:

1) I understand that twice as many people get selected as there are actual visas available, and that a first selection doesn't guarantee a win. But from then on, is there a way to determine my actual chances of a win beforehand based on the available info? Do my chances depend exclusively on how I fill out the forms to be sent to Kentucky (and where can I find more details on those actual forms) or is it more important and critical how high my confirmation number is? And if so, how high is too high, and is it still advisable to proceed with the process if the number's too high, or does it make more sense to just try out for the lottery another year?

2)If I am lucky enough to get selected, is the "first letter" the decisive moment to gauge my chances? Meaning, does receiving it guarantee that there will be an actual interview at the Consulate and from then on it's just a matter of waiting for the second letter, or does the confirmation number come into play again and mean I will risk not to be contacted at all and therefore lose the chance at a Visa?

3)If I don't get the Visa after receiving the first letter, can apply to the Lottery again in the upcoming years, or is the refusal final?

2)To what extent does my applying to the lottery influence any perspective traveling to the US? Specifically:

2.1)I know I can still use an ESTA to travel after applying to the Lottery, but does that hold true only for the initial phase, or also after I (miraculously) get selected? At what stage, if any, am I expected to inform Custom officials on entry that I have applied for a Green Card? Wouldn't they hold a record of that, and wouldn't my traveling with an ESTA while applying for an immigration visa constitute a "betrayal of intent"? 

-If I get selected but fail to be granted a visa at the next stage I understand ESTA isn't an option anymore and I would have to apply for a tourist Visa. But here's where it gets confusing: going back to intent, which is continuously mentioned on the official websites, doesn't asking for a tourist Visa after applying (and failing) to get the Lottery Immigration one practically reduce my chances of getting it to zero? I mean, isn't one of the most important considerations when granting a tourist Visa that you have no plans to immigrate? 
To put it simply, would applying to the Lottery and not making it to the final win mean that I cannot travel to the Us as a simple tourist anymore?? It seems like a crazy scenario, but I just want to make sure…

I apologise for the length of my post and thank in advance whoever may be willing to help.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

start by reading the rules 
Diversity Visa 2015

its a lottery your chances are limited 
you are looking too deeply ..just apply and take your chance 
but remenber you wil need considerable funds to make the yemove 
and there is no help available in the US


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

I appreciate your quick reply, but you didn't actually address any of my actual questions, which pertain to the implications of taking that very chance you suggest. 

I understand that my chances of winning are very limited, and my questions take that into account. I just want to have a better understanding of the potential scenario.

Thanks again.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Yes, you cannot use ESTA once you applied for a visa and it has not been granted.
What does customs have to do with immigration?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

The reason half of lottery winners don't make the cut is primarily either because they simply fail to pursue their visa or they do not actually qualify (and often because of lack of financial means).

I agree with the other posters: go ahead and enter the lottery. You probably won't be selected. (Your chances are maybe 1% or 2% -- in that sort of range.) If you are extremely lucky and are selected, pursue your visa diligently and with vigor. If you do that (and if you're qualified, including financially), you'll get a visa. Maybe you'll reach a point where you'll have to hold off on tourist visits to the U.S. while your visa application is pending, but that's a happy problem to have in this case.

In bocca al lupo.


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

twostep said:


> Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Yes, you cannot use ESTA once you applied for a visa and it has not been granted.
> What does customs have to do with immigration?


Ok, maybe it's the language barrier, since I am evidently not a native speaker, but I really don't get what you mean by me trying to "reinvent the wheel".
I have some doubts and in my post above I am trying to articulate them (in an admittedly convoluted way) and get some clarifications. 

I know I cannot use ESTA after applying for a visa and not getting it. 

What I was asking is if 1) I am supposed to inform the CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION OFFICER at the port of entry (if asked) that I have applied for a Diversity Visa while I wait to hear the result and I am still obviously traveling with the ESTA, and 2) If being refused the VISA (the Lottery one) would still qualify me to request a tourist one later on for the conflict of manifested intent, and I obviously meant the B1/B2, not the waiver. 

Thank you


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

know I cannot use ESTA after applying for a visa and not getting it WRONG


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> . Maybe you'll reach a point where you'll have to hold off on tourist visits to the U.S. while your visa application is pending, but that's a happy problem to have in this case.
> 
> In bocca al lupo.


Thank you for clarifying that for me. That makes sense and it's what I was suspecting. I was just unclear on the sequence of (potential) events and the specific restrictions, meaning if one can still travel with ESTA during the fist part of the application process but not anymore after making it to a further stage. After all it's a very long process... Is the first letter the cut off point?

Also, since you've been so kind to take the time to reply, can you also clarify if in the event of an unsuccessful application (and I don't mean first selection, but actual failure to get the visa afterwards) I can still apply for a B type visa?

Thank you again.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Davis1 said:


> know I cannot use ESTA after applying for a visa and not getting it WRONG


Can you please elaborate? Thank you.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

twostep said:


> Can you please elaborate? Thank you.


the chance of winning is so remote ...it not even considered an application
15 million apply 

you have as much chance of winning the State lottery

this year may be the last chance ... the progam may be canceled
not many days left


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Participating in the green card lottery is not a visa application, so if you are not selected as one of the happy few next year, you don't have to mention anything at all when you travel to the US. You were not denied a visa.
In case you are one of the happy few, and you go to the embassy/consulate to have your interview and they don't grant you the visa (because you had a criminal conviction / you don't have the necessary funds / you don't have a high school diploma / you carry a transmittable disease like TBC / ...) you can't travel under the Visa Waiver Program / ESTA anymore because you were denied a visa.

Your chances of winning don't depend on how or when you fill in the forms, as long as you fill them in correctly and within the allowed time frame.
If doesn't matter if you only have a high school diploma or a Phd, or if you are a general labourer or an astronaut (with the latter I would go for a different visa, hahaha!). Your chances are the same as those of the other Europeans. That means: very very very limited.
All European numbers became current in the past few years, so even if your number is 25.000 or 25, I wouldn't worry.

You don't apply by sending forms to Kentucky or by paying agencies to fill in your name, address, date of birth and so on, but by applying online for free at the only official website from the US government: 
https://www.dvlottery.state.gov (pay attention to the ID picture, as that is very different from what they are used to in Europe!).

You don't get a letter anymore, you'll have to check it online. See link above.
Getting a number doesn't mean you will get the visa, it means that you get an interview at the consulate/embassy, that you have to collect all the paperwork they ask for and in case you have all the qualifications (see link above, 'instructions'), you'll get the visa. 

I hope this answers your questions and addresses your concerns?


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

EVHB said:


> In case you are one of the happy few, and you go to the embassy/consulate to have your interview and they don't grant you the visa (because you had a criminal conviction / you don't have the necessary funds / you don't have a high school diploma / you carry a transmittable disease like TBC / ...) you can't travel under the Visa Waiver Program / ESTA anymore because you were denied a visa.


But would I still be able to travel with a B type visa? I can't seem to get an answer to that anywhere!
I understand there is no more chance of an ESTA like you say, but what about an actual tourist Visa (B1/B2)? Wouldn't that conflict with the immigration intent manifested just before? 

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. I apologise if some of my questions didn't make too clear what info I was already privy to and what I was pursuing. 
I did quite a bit of general research on the process. There are just some gaps here and there.


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

Forgot to add:

The funds issue seems quite murky from what I read online. There are places that make it sound like it's an actual requirement to have some kind of trust fund or a secured job offer at the time of the interview, and some others where I have read reports of people who actually weren't even asked about their financial situations AT ALL during their interviews at the Consulate. I am inclined to conclude it's either something that varies from Country to Country (certain consulates have stricter standards than others?) or that basically the truth lies in the middle. For lottery winners from from Euro Countries, were you actually required to provide bank statements at the interview? And if so, what's the ballpark consensus on a sum that would make the cut? 
I have no criminal record and I don't carry any infective diseases, so that would be my only area of concern...

Again, I am obviously speaking hypothetically, and I am WELL AWARE I don't have significant chances of being selected in a Lottery. Just covering my bases in the remote event...

Thanks.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

In the unlikely event your name is selected in the lottery, and you proceed to apply for a visa, and you are denied a visa, and the denial is for a reason that does not disqualify you for a future B visa, yes, you can apply for a B visa.

As for what financial requirements apply, you are probably correct there's some variability. Do the best you can if/when you reach that stage. That's all you can do.

I think you're overanalyzing your lottery entry at this stage. The only decision you have to make at this stage is whether you would like to move to the United States if given the opportunity. If the answer to that question is yes, enter the lottery and see what happens.


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> In the unlikely event your name is selected in the lottery, and you proceed to apply for a visa, and you are denied a visa, and the denial is for a reason that does not disqualify you for a future B visa, yes, you can apply for a B visa.


Thank you.
Isn't the intent to immigrate the main reason people are disqualified for a B visa though? The whole failure to proof enough "ties" to the Country of origin? 
I would expect immigration to find issue with a B1 petitioner who recently applied for a Diversity Visa... Would they just accept in good faith that you just "changed your mind after all"?


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

I wouldn't apply for a B visa 2 weeks after you were denied a green card. But people can change their mind over time. Maybe you found the love of your live, you got a fantastic job, or who knows what. As long as you can prove your bonds with your country (stable income, property, relationship, study,...), why wouldn't you try to apply for a B visa to go on a vacation? Certainly if you only want to go on a 3 week vacation, just like lots of other ordinary tourists?

Is there any reason why they wouldn't grant you a green card? Unless not having enough funds?
Regarding the funds: I know Europeans who got the green card with <$10,000 on their account. But me myself, I wouldn't want to risk immigrating with such a little amount, unless I had a job lined up.


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## flngo1 (Oct 17, 2013)

EVHB said:


> I wouldn't apply for a B visa 2 weeks after you were denied a green card. But people can change their mind over time. Maybe you found the love of your live, you got a fantastic job, or who knows what. As long as you can prove your bonds with your country (stable income, property, relationship, study,...), why wouldn't you try to apply for a B visa to go on a vacation? Certainly if you only want to go on a 3 week vacation, just like lots of other ordinary tourists?
> 
> Is there any reason why they wouldn't grant you a green card? Unless not having enough funds?
> Regarding the funds: I know Europeans who got the green card with <$10,000 on their account. But me myself, I wouldn't want to risk immigrating with such a little amount, unless I had a job lined up.


If the potential reasons are just the ones listed up thread, then I'd think I would make a good candidate, save for the funds. I mean, times are tough, and although I would probably not be able to come up with much more than that sum (but that's today), I have contacts in the US and a potential job opportunity.

Thanks for your answer.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Once again, focus on the core question here: do you want to relocate to the United States if given the opportunity? If the answer is yes, enter the lottery. That part is extremely simple.

If you then have the very happy "problem" of being selected to apply for a visa, weigh the risks then, but frankly it's hard to imagine you wouldn't try to get your green card if you still have the intention to relocate to the U.S. And yes, you may have to wait outside the U.S., but...did we mention this is a green card?


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## ina (Feb 26, 2009)

flngo1 said:


> Forgot to add:
> 
> The funds issue seems quite murky from what I read online. There are places that make it sound like it's an actual requirement to have some kind of trust fund or a secured job offer at the time of the interview, and some others where I have read reports of people who actually weren't even asked about their financial situations AT ALL during their interviews at the Consulate. I am inclined to conclude it's either something that varies from Country to Country (certain consulates have stricter standards than others?) or that basically the truth lies in the middle. For lottery winners from from Euro Countries, were you actually required to provide bank statements at the interview? And if so, what's the ballpark consensus on a sum that would make the cut?
> I have no criminal record and I don't carry any infective diseases, so that would be my only area of concern...
> ...


I won the green card lottery back in 2007 and my interview was in Frankfurt, Germany. Before being selected in the lottery, I had already lived in the U.S. as a student for 5 years. When I went to the interview, I didn't have a job offer in the U.S. yet. They didn't ask for it. I only showed them a bank statement with around $10,000 on it (but again, they didn't tell me any required amount I needed to have). I just showed them what I had at the time. The interview was easy and fast and my visa was granted.


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