# How Not To Deal With Mexican Authorities



## Hound Dog

So, some biker retards from Shiner, Texas (Shiner, Texas - what the hell is that - Hooterville in the scrub?)are planning a ride over the 1,300 miles from Shiner to Tijuana to "free" that U,S, Marine caught by Mexican authorities carrying firearms and ammunition into Mexico claiming he did not know he was in Mexico. He may be telling the truth but as an ex-Marine from way back in the 1960s, I consider that at the very least he was careless. I learned at Parris Island in 1960 that arms are to be treated with respect and riding around on the somewhat nebulous Mexican/U.S. border not only with weapons of war but ammunition with which to engage them is a behavior discouraged in the extreme among enlisted and commisioned Marine Corps authorities. 

I don´t recall as an e-Marine any more reckless behavior than carrying war weapons and ammunition in one´s personal pickup truck along an ill-defined border in the middle of the wilderness or on the outskirts of a city noted for violence and corruption over many years before any of us were even born. 

The idea of what these Texas ******* bikers from Shiner and their kin hope to accomplish is ludicrous at best. The last thing these semi-thugs should wish upon this Marine is that they inadvertently piss off the Mexican authorities which will cause them, rightfully, to dig in their heals. These morons are not doing this guy any favors with this cowardly display of self-righteousness. This is all bluff and these goons will not even get past the U.S. border patrol much less the Mexican border patrol and they know this ia a farcical outing even if they do, as they have speculated, draw a big crowd of sympathizers. The idea here is an excuse for a motor road trip perhaps to terrorize inhabitants of hick towns between Shiner and Tijuana. Major BS but if it comes off, this should be fun to watch


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## lagoloo

Please do keep us posted as this debacle unfolds. A video would be even better.

This story was extensively cussed and discussed on the local Chapala board (which shall be nameless) and some of those who flunked Logic, History and Civics felt that it's a terrible injustice to arrest and throw a guy (Marine or not) in jail for violating the laws of the land.

I'm still trying to figure out how a guy who was moving from Florida to San Diego wound up crossing the border to Tijuana, 20 miles past S.D. but no matter, it was "accidentally". Right???


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## kcowan

Several friends in PV have gotten rid of Onappafa auto registration because it is officially a government protest organization and, as a ******, you can get deported for belonging to it. The local police have advised to just discard it and drive with your expired NOTB plates even for Mexican Nationals.

OTOH Nieto seems to be cleaning up much of the Mexican government dysfunction. Many processes actually seem to be reasonable now, although it is a deep hole.


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## kcowan

lagoloo said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how a guy who was moving from Florida to San Diego wound up crossing the border to Tijuana, 20 miles past S.D. but no matter, it was "accidentally". Right???


Canadian Border Patrol regularly turns back Americans driving to Alaska with their guns. Ammunition is allowed but not guns. There is no option offered to leave the guns south of the border. They are rejected and recorded as potential felons in the customs database.


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## Isla Verde

kcowan said:


> OTOH Nieto seems to be cleaning up much of the Mexican government dysfunction. Many processes actually seem to be reasonable now, although it is a deep hole.


FYI, Mexico's president is Enrique Peña Nieto. You can refer to him as Sr. Peña or Sr. Peña Nieto, not Sr. Nieto.


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## kcowan

Is that the same as referring to the US President as President Obama even after he has completed his term? And that any reference to Mister Obama is considered a major faux pas?


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> FYI, Mexico's president is Enrique Peña Nieto. You can refer to him as Sr. Peña or Sr. Peña Nieto, not Sr. Nieto.


Licenciado
Señor Presidente
Licenciado Peña Nieto
Señor

All those work as well


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## Isla Verde

kcowan said:


> Is that the same as referring to the US President as President Obama even after he has completed his term? And that any reference to Mister Obama is considered a major faux pas?


I was referring to the fact that you called him Nieto, which is not his name. During his term of office, he should be referred to as Presidente Peña or President Peña Nieto, not as Presidente Nieto.


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## GARYJ65

kcowan said:


> Is that the same as referring to the US President as President Obama even after he has completed his term? And that any reference to Mister Obama is considered a major faux pas?


In this case, it would be like addressing Mr Obama as Mr Dunham, his mother's last name


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> I was referring to the fact that you called him Nieto, which is not his name. During his term of office, he should be referred to as Presidente Peña or President Peña Nieto, not as Presidente Nieto.


And when he leaves office he can be addressed as
Licenciado
Licenciado Peña Nieto
Señor
Señor Presidente

I think I could still call Mr Clinton as Mr President


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## GARYJ65

Hound Dog said:


> So, some biker retards from Shiner, Texas (Shiner, Texas - what the hell is that - Hooterville in the scrub?)are planning a ride over the 1,300 miles from Shiner to Tijuana to "free" that U,S, Marine caught by Mexican authorities carrying firearms and ammunition into Mexico claiming he did not know he was in Mexico. He may be telling the truth but as an ex-Marine from way back in the 1960s, I consider that at the very least he was careless. I learned at Parris Island in 1960 that arms are to be treated with respect and riding around on the somewhat nebulous Mexican/U.S. border not only with weapons of war but ammunition with which to engage them is a behavior discouraged in the extreme among enlisted and commisioned Marine Corps authorities.
> 
> I don´t recall as an e-Marine any more reckless behavior than carrying war weapons and ammunition in one´s personal pickup truck along an ill-defined border in the middle of the wilderness or on the outskirts of a city noted for violence and corruption over many years before any of us were even born.
> 
> The idea of what these Texas ******* bikers from Shiner and their kin hope to accomplish is ludicrous at best. The last thing these semi-thugs should wish upon this Marine is that they inadvertently piss off the Mexican authorities which will cause them, rightfully, to dig in their heals. These morons are not doing this guy any favors with this cowardly display of self-righteousness. This is all bluff and these goons will not even get past the U.S. border patrol much less the Mexican border patrol and they know this ia a farcical outing even if they do, as they have speculated, draw a big crowd of sympathizers. The idea here is an excuse for a motor road trip perhaps to terrorize inhabitants of hick towns between Shiner and Tijuana. Major BS but if it comes off, this should be fun to watch


First news I have about that Marine and those Texans
Let them come!!!
It can be fun!
As you said, maybe they were just looking for a reason to ride their bikes and feel machos
Let them try to cross the border with as much as one bullet, or one empty magazine...
They would be thrown in jail like...forever

Those guys are so afraid of Mexico that they have to do that, that's the only actions they understand, but in the first place, they are not thinking with logic; they cannot enter another Country and do as they please, if they try, they will get severely hurt and be crying like babies. 
Secondly, they are so much afraid of Mexican water, I can just imagine how they feel about facing Mexican authorities, with or without guns

I will write to them supportive letters, this can be fun, for me


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## AlanMexicali

kcowan said:


> OTOH Nieto seems to be cleaning up much of the Mexican government dysfunction. Many processes actually seem to be reasonable now, although it is a deep hole.


IMO this is naive to think it hasn´t been happening for 10 to 15 years here. 1 1/2 years is a tiny timeframe to get things done which you are noticing and I have been noticing for quite a bit longer than you obviously. 

25 to 30 years ago it was more ridiculous [all day or even the next day arriving even earlier at a gov´t. office to do almost anything compared to 1 or 2 hours] than 10 to 15 years ago by many times the improvements.


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## Hound Dog

Now, I am not an expert on these matter but let´s put it this way:

In 1960, I entered Parris lsland as a a Marine recruit 0300 (Infantry Rifleman) and then went on to receive infantry training at Camp Lejeune. Then I went on the PLC (Platoon Leaders Class) training at Quantico as I attendde the University of Alabama which is the training to become a commissioned officer, in the summers of 1963 and 1964 and I rejected the commissión proferred after training because even though I had successfully completed the PLC officer training, I had no desire to fertilize the rice paddys of Viet Nam with my rotting remains and I had performed my duty as defined in those days but be that as it may, I can tell you from all that training at Parris Island, Camp Lejeune and Quantico and al the constantly repeated warning about using weapons responsibility, it defies logic that an ex-Marine drove into Mexico with all those weapons of war and ammunition to feed them oblivious as to which country in which he was traveling. This sort of misbehavior is not aceptable in the Marine Corps and that is repeatedly drilled into eveyrone during training. Anyone who believes this is nomal behavior, you have three minutes to report to the drill field.


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## GARYJ65

Not one, but....3 weapons!!!
12 gauge shotgun!
45 cal pistol!! Which in Mexico is only for military use and I underline ONLY
AR 15 Rifle!!! which is considered, along with AK47 as a narco weapon!

And he claims it was a mistake, who in the heck carries 3 weapons in his vehicle and then drive to a different Country with stiff laws about guns???
Authorities will not care that he went to Afganistan, that was not a Mexican war, he is not a Mexican Vet, or anything, he is a person that broke the law, badly. I think they will let him have it


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## AlanMexicali

AlanMexicali said:


> IMO this is naive to think it hasn´t been happening for 10 to 15 years here. 1 1/2 years is a tiny timeframe to get things done which you are noticing and I have been noticing for quite a bit longer than you obviously.
> 
> 25 to 30 years ago it was more ridiculous [all day or even the next day arriving even earlier at a gov´t. office to do almost anything compared to 1 or 2 hours] than 10 to 15 years ago by many times the improvements.


I forgot to mention State and Municipal gov´t. offices differ from state to state, city to city, town to town, not related to anything the Peña Nieto adimistration has accomplished in most cases [maybe some state federally funded institutions].


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> I forgot to mention State and Municipal gov´t. offices differ from state to state not related to anything the Nieto adimistration has accomplished in most cases [maybe some state federally funded institutions].


Shouldn't that be the *Peña* Nieto administration?


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> Shouldn't that be the *Peña* Nieto administration?


I was proof reading and you were typing. 

It is all fixed up now with additions.


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## chicois8

Lets see. his 4th. trip to Mexico,
3 weapons, 2 loaded,
over 400 rounds of ammo, 
and now a group of grey haired hog drivers, 
looks like a reality series coming to the Discovery Channel

New details muddy Marine vet's story? | UTSanDiego.com


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## GARYJ65

Once again, who needs, in the US or Mexico, to carry ammo and those weapons?
"Oh, I am visiting some friends, I better get myself armed"?
Veteran or not
Post traumatic whatever or not
US Marine or not, Mexico is very clear about weapons, and his credentials and medals were left behind in the US when he entered Mexico

I really want those bad a** motorcyclists to come!!!!!


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## Hound Dog

chicois8 said:


> Lets see. his 4th. trip to Mexico,
> 3 weapons, 2 loaded,
> over 400 rounds of ammo,
> and now a group of grey haired hog drivers,
> looks like a reality series coming to the Discovery Channel
> 
> New details muddy Marine vet's story? | UTSanDiego.com


Well said, Chicois8:

Dawg grewc up in the unsettled and racially provocative Alabama of the 1950s and 1960s, began to mature in the often uncivil Haight/Ashbury in San Francisco in the late 60s worked for years in dangerous Downtown Oakland and lived in Mendocino County durnig the70s and 80s when a walk into weed patch uninvited was as dangerous as it gets. To suggest this guy drove innocently into Mexico on unmarked roads with that kind of loaded arsenal ready to engage in combat suggests that all of us taking part in this discussion are total morons. 

By the way, I have just Heard the gun-runner tried to enter Mexico in a "Nothing to Declare" lane and was pulled over for inspection for the lack of a front license plate. This guy makes Gomer Pyle appear to have a graduate degree. 

Pathetic.


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## citlali

I am not sure what they think they will accomplish by riding their motocycle in Mexico.. Scare the government ,I Intimidate it? Show soladiraity? I am sure the governmenst of teh various border States is scared to death... pretty pathetic. Better make sure they do not run into a gang who de could decide they want a motocycle, they still have not found the motocyclist who disappeared in Michoacan.


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## lagoloo

This could make a fine "film noir". It had some good material to begin with, but adding the Texas motorcycle gang just tops it off.


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## chicois8

I recently drove the route into Tijuana this guy traveled, there are at least 2 long and large freeway signs stating last US exit .....very hard to miss !


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## coondawg

It sounds to me like this ex-marine is one of those people who signed up to go to Afghanistan to kill. He sounds like his box of colors is not full, but the military is/was glad to have someone willing to give their life in a fight, even if they are missing some colors. Unfortunately, a lot of these types have been trained to kill, and we may be just seeing the edge of what can happen when they are released on our society.


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## lagoloo

coondawg said:


> It sounds to me like this ex-marine is one of those people who signed up to go to Afghanistan to kill. He sounds like his box of colors is not full, but the military is/was glad to have someone willing to give their life in a fight, even if they are missing some colors. Unfortunately, a lot of these types have been trained to kill, and we may be just seeing the edge of what can happen when they are released on our society.


Add to that the inadequate supply of treatment available to veterans with PTSD, the shortage of jobs for them and you have a powder keg.


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## kcowan

I gather that people here are not impressed with what Senor Pena has accomplished?

What I have seen in PV is a renewed attempt to enforce the laws, reduced demands for mordida, and a stepped up attempt to collect taxes of all kinds. So should I give credit to our mayor or our governor?

(Does anyone else think like I do that what happens in Tijuana stays in Tijuana, and does not reflect much of what happens in the rest of Mexico? In fact, all of Baja is different!)


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## lagoloo

kcowan said:


> I gather that people here are not impressed with what Senor Pena has accomplished?
> 
> What I have seen in PV is a renewed attempt to enforce the laws, reduced demands for mordida, and a stepped up attempt to collect taxes of all kinds. So should I give credit to our mayor or our governor?
> 
> (Does anyone else think like I do that what happens in Tijuana stays in Tijuana, and does not reflect much of what happens in the rest of Mexico? In fact, all of Baja is different!)


What has been accomplished, and freely admitted to, is that the press has been muffled. We have no idea what the reality is.
The facts are unavailable. We "sort of" know that there are very different conditions in different parts of Mexico: Guerrero, Michoacan, Tijuana, etc.

Will we EVER know? On the other hand, what did we really know back in the States? History finally releases at least part of the lies and fabrications told to the citizenry, but not current with the events themselves. Same in most places on Planet Earth.


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## chicois8

Good idea kcowman, don't care about another part of Mexico, I guess if something happened in Cancun
we should not care because it's far away from PV......


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## kcowan

chicois8 said:


> Good idea kcowan, don't care about another part of Mexico, I guess if something happened in Cancun we should not care because it's far away from PV......


The thing is we cannot know anything except what we experience. Anything else is just hearsay and we all know how unreliable that can be...you should know that Michael more than many!


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## chicois8

kcowman says ".you should know that Michael more than many!" 

Who is Michael?


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## AlanMexicali

kcowan said:


> I gather that people here are not impressed with what Senor Pena has accomplished?
> 
> What I have seen in PV is a renewed attempt to enforce the laws, reduced demands for mordida, and a stepped up attempt to collect taxes of all kinds. So should I give credit to our mayor or our governor?
> 
> (Does anyone else think like I do that what happens in Tijuana stays in Tijuana, and does not reflect much of what happens in the rest of Mexico? In fact, all of Baja is different!)


Judicial reforms have been going on for 6 years and anticorruption and transparency laws also so not new and only Tax Reform, Telecommunication and Educational Reforms are last year´s new laws.

Things change and have been changing here for quite some time. 

You mentioned originally dsyfunctional gov´t. agencies.

Those agencies are state federal and municipal. If those have improved over the years thank the Federal Gov´t. your State Gov´t. and your Municipal Gov´t. 

Mordida is usually Municipal corruption in most cases, not federal as they have been trying to stamp that out since Calderón and have done much to improve the "old ways" of getting things accomplished and "rewards" collected from officials. I presume some states are still behind in this respect as are some municipalities. 

True the states are responsible for their own bugets but Federal Institutions are administered at the top by federal employees but most of the work is by state employees and funded mainly from federal money. They have to be careful they are being monitored by federal agencies for many years and they are intollerant of corruption. Crooks are unable to buy their way out anymore in this case.

As I stated before it has slowly been going on for the last 10 to 15 years and you just happened to notice the results lately?


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## GARYJ65

http://dailysurge.com/2014/06/bikers-headed-to-mexico-to-free-sgt-andrew-tahmooressi/


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## citlali

Big mouth , small brain, I say now it ould get funny..


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## Longford

AlanMexicali said:


> As I stated before it has slowly been going on for the last 10 to 15 years and you just happened to notice the results lately?


Yes, the "reforms" and transparency improved beginning with the ouster of PRI by Pres. Vicente Fox and continued, much more effectively, IMO, during the 6-year administration of Pres. Calderon. At the federal level, I believe the PAN did a much better job than PRI ever did, or probably ever will. But let's give Pres. Peña Nieto his six years to show what he can do. Yes, in what's a relatively short period of time on the road to a democratic/transparent government ... I think Mexico has made improvements. It's easy for those of us to compare Mexico today with the USA today, when the better comparison might be Mexico today with the USA of the 1900s and 30s and through the 60s and 60s in parts of the USa (corruption, bribes, government inefficiencies, etc.)


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## kcowan

AlanMexicali said:


> As I stated before it has slowly been going on for the last 10 to 15 years and you just happened to notice the results lately?


I have only noticed the reluctance to accept mordida by the federales lately. The immigration reforms were only enacted last November. So yes, what impacts me over the 7 years since owning fulltime, seems to be recent.

The Hacienda also seems to be more active but that is just hearsay from friends who own businesses.


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## AlanMexicali

kcowan said:


> I have only noticed the reluctance to accept mordida by the federales lately. The immigration reforms were only enacted last November. So yes, what impacts me over the 7 years since owning fulltime, seems to be recent.
> 
> The Hacienda also seems to be more active but that is just hearsay from friends who own businesses.


The Nov. before last, in Nov. 2012 and not written by the new administration. 

Federal Pólice frequently asking for mordida, where? 

Dsyfunctional gov´t. offices compared to what decade? You should have been around in the 80s and early 90s to see what a bureaucratic nightmare Mexico was to compare it to the last 15 or more years. 50X the improvement now.

Roads, wáter, sewer, electricity, supermarkets, universities, stores and availability to goods and reliable service, especially automóbiles and machinery etc. You name it and I feel it has all improved steadily in the last 15 or 20 years until today and now it is very good, in my travels. [not always perfect in some cases, depends]


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## Jubba

Anyone living in or coming to Mexico with guns and not expecting to get arrested in a moron - plain and simple. PTSD or not. Obama and Mexican corruption are two other stories altogether.


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## Isla Verde

Jubba said:


> Anyone living in or coming to Mexico with guns and not expecting to get arrested in a moron - plain and simple. PTSD or not. Obama and Mexican corruption are two other stories altogether.


What does Obama have to do with this story?


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## chicois8

Any updates on the big bad grey ponytailed beer swilling hog riders after there ride to the border?


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## Jubba

Isla Verde said:


> What does Obama have to do with this story?


Several mentioned Obama and Nieto


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## Longford

Jubba said:


> Several mentioned Obama and Nieto



Maybe the discussion can move back to the topic.


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## AlanMexicali

A federal comprehensive anticorruption law was passed by a huge majority in the senate in 2012. This law is going to put a lot of pressure on all systems in all states even if it takes awhile to get it running at all levels, as usually is the case here.

Another federal law passed in 2006 by Fox just before leaving office that he pushed through that was tosed around for 11 years before passing was the child support and divorced women support law [property división I think was included] which included free DNA testing and child support for fathers even if they were not married or around when the child was born. Before that there was no federal support laws and in most states fathers and ex husbands could do whatever they wanted.


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## Jubba

AlanMexicali said:


> A federal comprehensive anticorruption law was passed by a huge majority in the senate in 2012. This law is going to put a lot of pressure on all systems in all states even if it takes awhile to get it running at all levels, as usually is the case here.
> 
> Another federal law passed in 2006 by Fox just before leaving office that he pushed through that was tosed around for 11 years before passing was the child support and divorced women support law [property división I think was included] which included free DNA testing and child support for fathers even if they were not married or around when the child was born. Before that there was no federal support laws and in most states fathers and ex husbands could do whatever they wanted.


Moving on to the next 'topic' - Anyone who has spent a little time in Mexico will understand, laws 'on the books' don't matter here. The 'economic reform' will have very little effect on the Mexican economy. 
On the law you mentioned - Oddly enough we talked about that yesterday at a meeting. One of the girls who was born in the US but raised here, asked me if it was true the US government would support them for you (assuming the kids were 'American' too. I said, depending on the state the amount of $$ will change but ABSOLUTELY. Her response? "Instead of going to college, maybe I should go to the US, have a few kids then move back to Mexico. They do direct deposit right?"


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## GARYJ65

The marine will have a new attorney, one that defended Jorge Hank Rhon, a Mexican thug who was charger for weapon possession


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## AlanMexicali

Jubba said:


> Moving on to the next 'topic' - Anyone who has spent a little time in Mexico will understand, laws 'on the books' don't matter here. The 'economic reform' will have very little effect on the Mexican economy.
> On the law you mentioned - Oddly enough we talked about that yesterday at a meeting. One of the girls who was born in the US but raised here, asked me if it was true the US government would support them for you (assuming the kids were 'American' too. I said, depending on the state the amount of $$ will change but ABSOLUTELY. Her response? "Instead of going to college, maybe I should go to the US, have a few kids then move back to Mexico. They do direct deposit right?"


I feel you are a little bit uninformed if you think " ... laws on the books don´t matter here." Typical stereotyping of Mexico´s integrity as a nation of useless ineffectual dummies. IMO and not uncommon among the misinformed and prejuice foreigners, sadly. Also the comment about the girl, another swip at the intergrity of a typical Mexican. BLAHHH!


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## Jubba

GARYJ65 said:


> The marine will have a new attorney, one that defended Jorge Hank Rhon, a Mexican thug who was charger for weapon possession


The common misconception is guns are ILLEGAL in Mexico, which they are NOT. His (the Marine's) only problem is he didn't have a permit. Put together a 'defense fund' pay off the judge and Bob's your uncle. He'll (the judge) charge him for entering Mexico with firearms without a permit and it'll be forgotten in a month.


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## GARYJ65

Jubba said:


> The common misconception is guns are ILLEGAL in Mexico, which they are NOT. His (the Marine's) only problem is he didn't have a permit. Put together a 'defense fund' pay off the judge and Bob's your uncle. He'll (the judge) charge him for entering Mexico with firearms without a permit and it'll be forgotten in a month.


Yes, that is a common misconception, not for me, I own a few guns myself, registered of course.
The thing here is tnot if they are legal or not, it is illegal as hell to bring weapons to the Country, and in this case, there were 3, and 2 of them are of military use ONLY
In this partucular case, Bob is not going to be this guy's uncle and it was not forgotten in a month
How long have you been living in Mexico?


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## lagoloo

I read that link to the motorcyclists story about trying to "free" the guy who "accidentally" wound up crossing the border with a bunch of guns and ammo.
Right.
You can get the drift of that site if you note that they are advertising a book "How to make a Liberal Cry Like A Little Girl" on the page along with a few other hints of where they are coming from. The basic message here seems to be "Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up", and the general thought that President Obama is ruler of Mexico and should override Mexican authorities, or he is failing in his duty to "those guys". Hmmm?

...All this speechifying leads me to wonder what would happen to a Mexican military guy who "accidentally" crossed the border going north with guns and ammo stashed in his vehicle, and what the U.S. reaction to a bunch of Mexican guys heading north to "free" him would be? LOL.

I'm waiting for the movie. Popcorn and lounge chair at the ready.


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## AlanMexicali

Google Translation:

"Inés García Ramos June 16, 2014 at 18:09:44


Within hours, Mr. Benitez Fernando Alvarez, one of the defense lawyers Jorge Hank Rhon in 2011, will take office before the Sixth District Court, as defender Andrew Tahmooressi, former Marine who joined [entered] Tijuana with three guns and 457 cartridges, the night of March 31, 2014.

The lawyer was consulted by Jill Tahmooressi, young American mother, the June 12, 2014, when the woman came from Florida to visit her son in prison "The Mushroom II" [El Hongo prison in Tecate Baja].

Accompanied by Phil Dunn, director of the association Serving California - specializes in providing assistance to veterans - the American woman met with a number of lawyers to replace Lamberto mexicalense Esquer, who led the defense of Tahmooressi for less than two weeks .

Among them, Fernando Benitez, who along with his partner Abraham Hernández Serrano, Ezequiel Zamora Wells, was recorded in the federal courts as defense attorneys Tahmooressi the evening of June 13.

They were also discharged [allowed] in the State Prison System - along with four others - to visit the 25 year old, detained since April 3 in Tijuana penitentiary since 8 May in "The Mushroom".

While counsel has not yet received the case file Tahmooressi said ZETA that in court, "has not been vented [submitted?] any evidence."

So it will wait to review the record for an analysis of the part of new Customs - Mexican authorities who located the guns and cartridges in the car [pickup] in the U.S.[TJ] in "El Chaparral" - and preparatory statements and with the PGR your customer.

Fernando Benitez, along with five other lawyers represented the former mayor of Tijuana, Jorge Hank Rhon when he was arrested the morning of June 4, 2011, by soldiers, at his residence, where they were found 40 rifles, 48 handguns, 298 rounds of ammunition 9000, 70 chargers and gas Granada.

After being held in "El Hongo" accused of a crime by the PGR collection or possession of weapons, in addition to conspiracy, Hank Rhon release order received on 14 June of that year.

Tahmooressi faces federal charges for possession of a firearm for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy and Air Force, carrying a firearm without a license and possession of cartridges.

Although Fernando Benitez said the defense strategy will be defined until the end of this week, seen as a possibility to check if the arrest was made under law, but because their first lawyer did not appeal within three days allowed after was notified formal Tahmooressi prison, the action would have to be made until after he was sentence.

Meanwhile, counsel refers to the absence of fraud, shall be the primary argument for the freedom of his client. "There was no fraud because not foresee, viewed, accepted and wanted the result that his conduct made," he said.

Also pointed out that the fact that Tahmooressi've experienced in Tijuana - as documented in the report of ZETA "Ex Marine staying in Tijuana hotel - not" relevant "to the case.

So far, the Judicial Power of the Federation still does not respond to the process of promoting defense, requested by the litigants. It is expected that in the next 48 hours, lawyers are reported."

Otra vez ex Marine cambia de abogado


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## AlanMexicali

lagoloo said:


> I read that link to the motorcyclists story about trying to "free" the guy who "accidentally" wound up crossing the border with a bunch of guns and ammo.
> Right.QUOTE]
> 
> It´s summertime and I feel let them blow off some steam and enjoy the ride and San Diego. It gets them out of Texas for awhile at any rate.
> 
> It´s good entertainment for the rest of us, isn´t it?


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## Longford

The former Marine's arrest in Mexico has become cause celebre for the 'wing nuts' in the USA. The Mexico-haters have rallied around the story using it as yet another reason to complain about Mexico and Mexicans. Such complaints, from that ilk ... are hypocritical. They tend to be the 'law and order' folks whining all the time about the "Liberals" and also about how the current Presidential administration in the USA is soft on "illegal aliens" (i.e., Mexicans).

Since this discussion is about dealing with how not to deal with Mexican authorities, the behavior of the former Marine and how he's behaved since being taken into custody in Mexico is probably a text book case of how not to deal with the authorities.

The 25 y.o. Marine reservist, Andrew Tahmooressi, who we now have been told suffers from serious psychological issues/mental illness, reportedly drove into Mexico, past signage warning against entering Mexico with firearms, with a 5.56mm rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and a .45-caliber pistol, as well as with more than 400 rounds of ammunition. A senior Mexican customs officer at the San Ysidro crossing reportedly said that the guns, all loaded, were wrapped up in Tahmooressi’s belongings instead of being locked away and unloaded as required by California law (the state from which Tahmooressi entered Mexico). One of the loaded rifle’s was reported to have been found behind the driver’s seat, the shotgun was on the passenger seat, and the pistol was in the driver-side door pocket, along with several cartridges. 

Mexico has, from everything I've read/seen/listened to in the various media coverage of this case, acted reasonably and responsibly in the enforcement of its laws. Mexico law prevails, not U.S. law (under which Tahmooressi could have also been arrested in California, from what I understand) and public criticism of Mexico defending Mexico's laws/regulations by Tahmooressi's family and new-found opportunistic supporters will only delay a resolution of the matter because Mexico is not going to want to appear to Mexicans or anyone else that it's backing-down due to public pressure or that it's not enforcing its laws (especially not in the face of the "law and order" USA). 

I share in some earlier comment(s) which assume Tahmooressi will be released. I suspect he'll be found guilty of violating the firearms regulations, that he'll be prohibited from entering Mexico for a period of time, released into the custody of the United States government after which he will be hospitalized/institutionalized for treatment of his disorders.


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## Jubba

GARYJ65 said:


> Yes, that is a common misconception, not for me, I own a few guns myself, registered of course.
> The thing here is tnot if they are legal or not, it is illegal as hell to bring weapons to the Country, and in this case, there were 3, and 2 of them are of military use ONLY
> In this partucular case, Bob is not going to be this guy's uncle and it was not forgotten in a month
> How long have you been living in Mexico?


10 years. Lived here for a year 12 ago too.


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## Isla Verde

Jubba said:


> 10 years. Lived here for a year 12 ago too.


Then you need to change your profile since it says you're an expat in the USA.


----------



## Jubba

AlanMexicali said:


> I feel you are a little bit uninformed if you think " ... laws on the books don´t matter here." Typical stereotyping of Mexico´s integrity as a nation of useless ineffectual dummies. IMO and not uncommon among the misinformed and prejuice foreigners, sadly. Also the comment about the girl, another swip at the intergrity of a typical Mexican. BLAHHH!


Well, okay. I'm obviously misinformed Alan. I'm misinformed that one of our local PD (town of +/- 60,000) was expelled from high school for selling drugs. Our ex Mayor was in an accident with a hooker (who was not his wife). When the cops arrived they killed the hooker because they didn't want a witness. They didn't think about the ambulance drivers who went to check the boss. I'm also wrong to have witnessed a kid being kidnapped in broad daylight with help from the police because his mom won some money in the lottery while on vacation in the US. 

I do find it interesting when people move to 'Mexico' and live in places like San Miguel, Chapala, ****** neighborhoods of DF, etc and think that's Mexico. That's the southern US/Canada depending on where you're expat from. So there are no misconceptions - I love Mexico! But, even with the reforms, they left a loophole for small business owners. The suppliers just use a 'generic' RFC. Therefore if you don't ask for a receipt you don't declare it just like always. Large businesses and foreign companies were the only ones affected. Most of them paid their taxes before anyway. 

I still say go down with $10,000USD and the Marine will be out of the country by sundown. Again, I tend not to like fantasies. I get a better kick out of reality. For those of you who are new, the only agency you don't want to mess with is SAT. Those guys are straight arrows (at least here. no I won't tell you precisely where). An accountant I know offered an auditor a bribe on behalf of his client and ended up getting a 25,000peso fine himself. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. Opinions may vary depending on where you are in Mexico. 

Finally to new people, enjoy Mexico. It's a great place to party, not bad to work in (very relaxed work ethic) but don't think you're gonna get rich quick. Also, you can expect to make about 2/3 of what you'd make for the same job in the US/Canada and depending on foreign money involved where you live (or want to live) you could be paying US/Canada real estate prices. Just my $.02


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## Longford

Jubba said:


> I do find it interesting when people move to 'Mexico' and live in places like San Miguel, Chapala, ****** neighborhoods of DF, etc and think that's Mexico. That's the southern US/Canada depending on where you're expat from.


It's amusing to me when I read someone tell us what the "real" Mexico is, or isn't. Particularly so when it's another expat doing the "telling."  Obviously, everyone, Mexicans and expats alike, makes assumptions. I think you've repeated one of the misconceptions not only about expats, but about Mexico. Expats who live in those communities you describe (which I'll suggest are a small percentage of the approx. 1,000,000 expats living in Mexico) are indeed living in Mexico. The "real" Mexico. However, maybe they're not living in the "Mexico" you've self-defined to fit the image you may have conjured in your own mind. But, rest assured ... it's all Mexico. Really, it is.


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## Jubba

AlanMexicali said:


> lagoloo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read that link to the motorcyclists story about trying to "free" the guy who "accidentally" wound up crossing the border with a bunch of guns and ammo.
> Right.QUOTE]
> 
> It´s summertime and I feel let them blow off some steam and enjoy the ride and San Diego. It gets them out of Texas for awhile at any rate.
> 
> It´s good entertainment for the rest of us, isn´t it?
> 
> GMN's Pete Santilli Bull-horns DHS - "Free USMC Sgt Tahmooressi!" - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> Love the mobile outpost. DHS isn't going to do anything. My concern is, IF the Marine knew what he was doing was wrong. I'd have to hear more about his state of mind. Why, other than Semper Fi are they down there. Last time I checked Marines didn't support criminal behavior, they defend against it. I still suspect there's A LOT that is unknown about this case. OR, they're making it more complicated than it needs to be.
> Gary, I said it 'will be forgotten' if they did as I mentioned. The more noise they make the higher the price goes. [Also, YES you can bring guns into Mexico. You just have to have a permit. There are many foreign duck hunters who go to Los Mochis who won't shoot club guns. They bring their own.]
Click to expand...


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## lagoloo

Loved the bullhorn bit. Like the "we are coming to get him: bring him here to the gate" is going to cut even a sliver of ice.

Pass the popcorn.


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## Isla Verde

Jubba said:


> I do find it interesting when people move to 'Mexico' and live in places like San Miguel, Chapala, ****** neighborhoods of DF, etc and think that's Mexico. That's the southern US/Canada depending on where you're expat from.


I live in Mexico City and have never heard of any "****** neighborhoods" - please enlighten me as to where they are located. I have also spent time in Chapala and San Miguel. While it's true both towns have some foreign residents, they are still the "real" Mexico. If they don't meet your standards of authenticity, what towns or cities do meet them? Where in Mexico do you live?


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## Jubba

Longford said:


> It's amusing to me when I read someone tell us what the "real" Mexico is, or isn't. Particularly so when it's another expat doing the "telling."  Obviously, everyone, Mexicans and expats alike, makes assumptions. I think you've repeated one of the misconceptions not only about expats, but about Mexico. Expats who live in those communities you describe (which I'll suggest are a small percentage of the approx. 1,000,000 expats living in Mexico) are indeed living in Mexico. The "real" Mexico. However, maybe they're not living in the "Mexico" you've self-defined to fit the image you may have conjured in your own mind. But, rest assured ... it's all Mexico. Really, it is.


I seriously beg to differ on the proportions of expats living in 'real' Mexico. You can contact IMN for the stats. If you take out Chapala, SMA, and coastal (traditionally tourist) towns a VERY small percentage live elsewhere. I don't conjure anything. I tend to prefer to live in reality not some romanticized version of the truth. The truth is, you are still 'statistically safer in any of cities in Mexico than you are in any large American city. 
I'm assuming from what you've said that you would agree with the statement, 'Corruption is overrated (exaggerated) in Mexico'?


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## lagoloo

Ah. One more person defining "the real Mexico". 

Answer: Is San Francisco, CA the "real" U.S.A. as opposed to FarOff, Texas or Brooklyn, N.Y. or Fargo, North Dakota?

The "real Mexico" is anywhere in Mexico where Mexicans (and anyone else) choose to live. If you don't believe it, run afoul of the law in San Miguel de Allende or Chapala. The jails are just as happy to make you miserable as anywhere else in the country.


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## Longford

Jubba said:


> If you take out Chapala, SMA, and coastal (traditionally tourist) towns a VERY small percentage live elsewhere.


Surely you jest. :wacko:



> I don't conjure anything. I tend to prefer to live in reality not some romanticized version of the truth.


"Reality"? Really? Well, we've seen very different parts of the country - not just the stereotypical, largely-fictional limited areas where expats supposedly live. 



> I'm assuming from what you've said that you would agree with the statement, 'Corruption is overrated (exaggerated) in Mexico'?


There you go again, making wrong assumptions. Conjuring-up images of/opinions which are just not accurate. :hand: I don't think there's been a contributor to this forum during the past several years who has spoken more directly/assertively on the topic of, generally, what I believe to be endemic/DNA-like corruption from the top to the bottom in Mexico. Mexicans I know and associate with don't consider the reports and experiences of corruption exaggerated; nor do I. :nono:


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## kcowan

The funny thing is that Nuevo is not considered the real Mexico by downtown PV people. Yet it is inhabited by 70% Mexicans who love their time at the beach...the construction is primarily Miami modern which the Mexicans prefer.


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## Jubba

lagoloo said:


> Ah. One more person defining "the real Mexico".
> 
> Answer: Is San Francisco, CA the "real" U.S.A. as opposed to FarOff, Texas or Brooklyn, N.Y. or Fargo, North Dakota?
> 
> The "real Mexico" is anywhere in Mexico where Mexicans (and anyone else) choose to live. If you don't believe it, run afoul of the law in San Miguel de Allende or Chapala. The jails are just as happy to make you miserable as anywhere else in the country.


The thread should not be overtaken by this idle banter BUT, you made my point. In those places you mentioned the law 'works'. That's so the foreigners don't move and take their money with them. My neighbor used to make sport out of beating his wife in the middle of the street. [NO, I'm not saying that's typical of Mexican men] He never spent an hour in jail regardless of how many times neighbors called the cops. 
It's like going to Disneyland and saying you love LA based on that. Go see Mexico! Just don't think they'll all treat you like they do where you live. When you talk to new Mexican people you meet (assuming detailed conversation) find out where they've been. If they lived in the US/Canada their way thinking will have been affected. I know MANY of both types (lived in/not) there is an obvious difference in the way they see the world and Mexico. Again, my $.02


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## lagoloo

Jubba said:


> The thread should not be overtaken by this idle banter BUT, you made my point. In those places you mentioned the law 'works'. That's so the foreigners don't move and take their money with them. My neighbor used to make sport out of beating his wife in the middle of the street. [NO, I'm not saying that's typical of Mexican men] He never spent an hour in jail regardless of how many times neighbors called the cops.
> It's like going to Disneyland and saying you love LA based on that. Go see Mexico! Just don't think they'll all treat you like they do where you live. When you talk to new Mexican people you meet (assuming detailed conversation) find out where they've been. If they lived in the US/Canada their way thinking will have been affected. I know MANY of both types (lived in/not) there is an obvious difference in the way they see the world and Mexico. Again, my $.02


Made YOUR point? Don't think so. You claimed that places like SMA or Lakeside were not the real Mexico and then went on to talk about how the law works in different places in the U.S. so that the people don't leave and move elsewhere. Huh? Disneyland is not Los Angeles, believe me (I grew up in that city) and Ajijic or San Miguel are not pretending to be Disneyland.

My point is that all of Mexico is the real Mexico, just as all of the U.S. (with the exception of Disneyland) is the "real U.S." and if you're the right color and have the right lawyer, the law "works" for you. If you're the wrong ethnicity or social level in the U.S., the law doesn't work the same for you.
Same deal everywhere on planet Earth.

Someone else pointed out that if you want to be treated the same way you were treated in your home country, you should stay in your home country.
I'm puzzled at anyone who emigrates to Mexico and then complains that things aren't the same as where he/she came from, and thinks this country is at fault for not changing. It is the immigrant who needs to adjust his/her thinking. Or go home. Nobody forced any of us to move here.

Incidentally, if caught, the guy in question with the loaded guns in his car would have been thrown in the slammer in CA, too, but you wouldn't be hearing the protests about it. As a Marine, he would have known that was against the law, since that's what the Marines would have taught him.


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## Hound Dog

lagoloo said:


> _...Incidentally, if caught, the guy in question with the loaded guns in his car would have been thrown in the slammer in CA, too, but you wouldn't be hearing the protests about it. As a Marine, he would have known that was against the law, since that's what the Marines would have taught him._




My precise point earlier on this forum. As a Marine Corps recruit, infantryman, officer candidate trained from Parris Island to Camp Lejuene to Quantico in the 1960s, I can report to those of you with no Marine Corps experience that the Corps teaches you, no, pounds into you, your responsibility as a a Marine (in my case an enlisted rifleman later offered a commission with an opportunity to visit Viet Nam for a period a time as a 2nd Lietenant , a commission I declined as was my right at the time, and there is no way this guy went through Marine Corps training and thought he could carry those kinds of weapons useful pimarily to assault and kill human beings, with some 400 rounds of ammunition into many U.S. states or communities. much less Mexico.

The fact that he received Marine training and did what he did makes him all the more unblievable to me as a Marine. Something does not meet the eye here.

Incidentally, if news reports that I have read are true, he pulled up to the Mexico border in the "Nothing to Declare" lane with all of those guns on board. I can´t wait for all those motorcycle retards from Texas to show up at the Baja border altough I do not believe for a minute that will happen and those moron bikers should hope for widespread flat tires as a Godsend before they ever reach that border.


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## lagoloo

Hound Dog said:


> [/I]
> 
> My precise point earlier on this forum. As a Marine Corps recruit, infantryman, officer candidate trained from Parris Island to Camp Lejuene to Quantico in the 1960s, I can report to those of you with no Marine Corps experience that the Corps teaches you, no, pounds into you, your responsibility as a a Marine (in my case an enlisted rifleman later offered a commission with an opportunity to visit Viet Nam for a period a time as a 2nd Lietenant , a commission I declined as was my right at the time, and there is no way this guy went through Marine Corps training and thought he could carry those kinds of weapons useful pimarily to assault and kill human beings, with some 400 rounds of ammunition into many U.S. states or communities. much less Mexico.
> 
> The fact that he received Marine training and did what he did makes him all the more unblievable to me as a Marine. Something does not meet the eye here.


There are several explanations which include suffering from delusions. We do know he had PTSD.


----------



## Hound Dog

_


lagoloo said:



There are several explanations which include suffering from delusions. We do know he had PTSD.

Click to expand...

_And still had no problem arming himself to the teeth with assault weapons and a massive amount of ammunition legally in the states. If it is true he had PTSD before he allegedly hit that border with that arsenal and is due for some significant time in a Tijuana jail, God knows what trauma comes next.

Back when I was in the Marines, PTSD, AKA _Parrris Island Training Stress Disorder_, landed you in what the drill instructrs called the "Adjustment Platoon" for an indefinite period of time. where you were subject to constant harassment 24 hours a day and might still be there today re-adjusting. Ah, yes, the 60s.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Hound Dog said:


> And still had no problem arming himself to the teeth with assault weapons and massive amount of ammunition legally in the states. If it is true he had PTSD before he allegedly hit that border with that arsenal and is due for some significant time in a Tijuana jail, God knows what trauma comes next.
> 
> Back when I was in the Marines, PTSD, AKA _Parrris Island Training Stress Disorder_, landed you in what the drill instructrs called the "Adjustment Platoon" for an indefinite period of time. where you were subject to constant harassment and might still be there today re-adjusting. Ah, yes, the 60s.


The 60s in California: "One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest" and rapists having their testicles removed by court order in repeat offenders.


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## Hound Dog

AlanMexicali said:


> The 60s in California: "One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest" and rapists having their testicles removed by court order in repeat offenders.



Just for the record, Alan, when you speak of Califonia in the 60s, I remind everyone that the quote from me in which you wrote this comment referred to the MCRD at Parris Island South Carolina on an infamous Mariine Corps recruit training base. Perhaps Alan is from California, where I lived from 1966 to 2001 and, in that context, his remark is cogent. However, to put things in perspective, even if we are wandering off course a bit, in the early to mid-20th Century, a black man in the U.S. Deep South could be castrated, gut shot or hanged by a mob for even glancing face-to face with a write woman or flirting with her as in the case of Immett Till in Misisissippi in the 50s, a black teenager from Chicago visiting family in Mississippi who had the temerity to whistle naively at a white woman walking down the road. No need to be a sexual offender. On the other hand, actual sexual offenses against black women were largely ignored even if recurrent and vicious or murderous in nature.


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## AlanMexicali

Jubba said:


> The thread should not be overtaken by this idle banter BUT, you made my point. In those places you mentioned the law 'works'. That's so the foreigners don't move and take their money with them. My neighbor used to make sport out of beating his wife in the middle of the street. [NO, I'm not saying that's typical of Mexican men] He never spent an hour in jail regardless of how many times neighbors called the cops.
> It's like going to Disneyland and saying you love LA based on that. Go see Mexico! Just don't think they'll all treat you like they do where you live. When you talk to new Mexican people you meet (assuming detailed conversation) find out where they've been. If they lived in the US/Canada their way thinking will have been affected. I know MANY of both types (lived in/not) there is an obvious difference in the way they see the world and Mexico. Again, my $.02


My 2 cents.

First you presuppose your very limit experiences are somehow a sample of what is the norm in all of Mexico and presume it to be true whether a tiny sample is representative of the whole or the exception. 

Second you find it convenient to stereotype the character and integrety of ALL Mexicans as being exactly like the few in your sample.

Third you discredit all gov´t. as being typically equal to your little crappy town with no supporting facts to back this assumption up. Then proceed to disallow the evidence we present to you as somehow false and naive and presuppose we are newbies to Mexico and you are the authority.



"Fallacies of Presumption


Explanation

Fallacies of presumption are not errors of reasoning in the sense of logical errors, but are nevertheless commonly classed as fallacies. Fallacies of presumption begin with a false (or at least unwarranted) assumption, and so fail to establish their conclusion.

Examples

Arguments involving false dilemmas, complex questions, or circularity all commit fallacies of presumption: false dilemmas assume that there are no other options to consider; complex questions assume that a state of affairs holds when it may not; circular arguments assume precisely the thing that they seek to prove. In each case, the assumption is problematic, and prevents the argument from establishing its conclusion."

Logical FallaciesÂ» Fallacies of Presumption

When people here don´t buy your flawed logic you use your experience as a way to discredit us and belittle our experiences as somehow irrelevant compared to yours.

"Ad Hominem (Personal Attack)


Explanation

It is important to note that the label “ad hominem” is ambiguous, and that not every kind of ad hominem argument is fallacious. In one sense, an ad hominem argument is an argument in which you offer premises that you the arguer don’t accept, but which you know the listener does accept, in order to show that his position is incoherent (as in, for example, the Euthyphro dilemma). There is nothing wrong with this type of argument ad hominem.

The other type of ad hominem argument is a form of genetic fallacy. Arguments of this kind focus not on the evidence for a view but on the character of the person advancing it; they seek to discredit positions by discrediting those who hold them. It is always important to attack arguments, rather than arguers, and this is where arguments that commit the ad hominem fallacy fall down."

Logical FallaciesÂ» Ad Hominem (Personal Attack)


----------



## cowichangang

kcowan said:


> Canadian Border Patrol regularly turns back Americans driving to Alaska with their guns. Ammunition is allowed but not guns. There is no option offered to leave the guns south of the border. They are rejected and recorded as potential felons in the customs database.


Not 100% true, if you ever watch like I do, the Canadian TV show "Border Patrol" you will see that Americans with guns are often allowed into Canada on route to Alaska. some are hunters, others are moving there, but they are always showing it being done, and as long as they declare the guns, and are not restricted and being properly stored and transported they let them in. Just a few weeks ago they had a guy from Texas who was taking his parents to Alaska and between them they must have had 10-12 guns, but they were all declared and not restricted, and after some inspections of the truck and camper trailer where allowed in without hesitation.


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## cowichangang

*Border Security, NOT Border Patrol*

Oooooops, my bad, I meant to say TV show "Border Security" NOT "Border Patrol"



cowichangang said:


> Not 100% true, if you ever watch like I do, the Canadian TV show "Border Patrol" you will see that Americans with guns are often allowed into Canada on route to Alaska. some are hunters, others are moving there, but they are always showing it being done, and as long as they declare the guns, and are not restricted and being properly stored and transported they let them in. Just a few weeks ago they had a guy from Texas who was taking his parents to Alaska and between them they must have had 10-12 guns, but they were all declared and not restricted, and after some inspections of the truck and camper trailer where allowed in without hesitation.


----------



## Isla Verde

cowichangang said:


> Not 100% true, if you ever watch like I do, the Canadian TV show "Border Patrol" you will see that Americans with guns are often allowed into Canada on route to Alaska. some are hunters, others are moving there, but they are always showing it being done, and as long as they declare the guns, and are not restricted and being properly stored and transported they let them in. Just a few weeks ago they had a guy from Texas who was taking his parents to Alaska and between them they must have had 10-12 guns, but they were all declared and not restricted, and after some inspections of the truck and camper trailer where allowed in without hesitation.


Why in the world would 3 people need 10-12 guns?


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## RVGRINGO

For the wild life in Alaska, and occasionally for the wildlife.


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## regwill

I own 9 different guns . Maybe they hunt , or collect , or just plain like guns . why do people buy Hummels , or Elvis things or buy old cars and put them in their back yard or garage ? Me , i like going to the range every once and a while to target shoot and to the clay range . Maybe one day i will going hunting ,, deer and elk meat is very tasty ( my friends in Colorado bow hunt )


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## gringotim

Isla Verde said:


> Why in the world would 3 people need 10-12 guns?


Not that I am defending gun ownership, but keep in mind, the guy was from Texas,  but in all fairness, my brother in-law owns 11 rifles, (and he's Canadian), but him mighty big hunter, he bought some and inherited some from his father, some of which don't even work. Infact most of my in-laws, (even some of the women folk) are hunters, (some as young as 16), and own 2-3 guns each, if not more. And they are all Canadian. Maybe that's why I don't associate with them outside of family functions (we don't hunt). Contrary to popular belief, it's not just Americans that like guns, just so many seem to use them for illegal purposes.
I also watch Border Security , and they do show Americans bringing guns (rifles) into Canada all the time, at least at the land crossings, but also show some being turned back because of legal issues.


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## AlanMexicali

regwill said:


> I own 9 different guns . Maybe they hunt , or collect , or just plain like guns . why do people buy Hummels , or Elvis things or buy old cars and put them in their back yard or garage ? Me , i like going to the range every once and a while to target shoot and to the clay range . Maybe one day i will going hunting ,, deer and elk meat is very tasty ( my friends in Colorado bow hunt )


2 men from Texas: 1 each for bear, 1 each for deer, 1 each for duck and geese, 1 each for target practice, probably a 22 [cheap ammo] and if they see a rabbit, rabbit stew later, = 8, maybe mom hunts + 4 = 12. It sounds reasonable to me.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> Why in the world would 3 people need 10-12 guns?


I own 3, my brother owns about 40. Between us the average is some 20 per person. However, do we *need* that many? Probably not.


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## Hound Dog

To each his own as far as the gun thing is concerned. We have no guns at all since moving to Mexico in 2001 Back in the backwoods in Coastal Northern California - and I mean the backwoods among the Doug Firs and Redwoods and not a neighbor or deputy sheriff anywhere even close by, I kept a 38 revolver at my bedside and a 12 gauge shotgun under the bed and would not have hesitated to use either or both of them against intruders but in years there I only murdered one rattlesnake with that 38 and never used the shotgun. 

Many years ago when we lived on Mobile Bay in the Alabama backwoods I nearly shot a German guest of ours who woke me up at about 3:00AM while she was going to the bathroom but, fortunately hesitated and she still lives some 40 years later but in Germany where one, these days at least, can go to the john at 3:00AM without being plugged. 

I am certainly no vegetarian much less a vegan but when I want to consume a rabbit or duck or some such creature, I have it slaughtered and dressed by someone in the business of doing those things. What does a vegan do with a gun? Plug errant and unwanted radishes or turnips innocently invading the garden?


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> …
> I am certainly no vegetarian much less a vegan but when I want to consume a rabbit or duck or some such creature, I have it slaughtered and dressed by someone in the business of doing those things. What does a vegan do with a gun? Plug errant and unwanted radishes or turnips innocently invading the garden?


I assume the question is addressed at me.

I have had them since I was about 10 years old. At that time, growing up in Alaska, most everyone had a few guns. I have 2 rifles and a shotgun. When I was a kid, and didn't know any better, I did some hunting. More recently, I have taken the shotgun for defense against bears when working in the field in Alaska, and I occasionally use all of them for target practice. I still enjoy shooting once in awhile. 

I haven't looked into getting a permit to move them to Mexico but may someday. Meanwhile they remain in the US.


----------



## GARYJ65

gringotim said:


> Not that I am defending gun ownership, but keep in mind, the guy was from Texas,  but in all fairness, my brother in-law owns 11 rifles, (and he's Canadian), but him mighty big hunter, he bought some and inherited some from his father, some of which don't even work. Infact most of my in-laws, (even some of the women folk) are hunters, (some as young as 16), and own 2-3 guns each, if not more. And they are all Canadian. Maybe that's why I don't associate with them outside of family functions (we don't hunt). Contrary to popular belief, it's not just Americans that like guns, just so many seem to use them for illegal purposes.
> I also watch Border Security , and they do show Americans bringing guns (rifles) into Canada all the time, at least at the land crossings, but also show some being turned back because of legal issues.


I think Americans warship guns, all others like them


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## TundraGreen

GARYJ65 said:


> I think Americans warship [sic] guns, all others like them


Stereotyping a bit, maybe?


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## Hound Dog

Well siad, TG. I cannot imagine living in Alaska, especially out in the woods, without guns - an absolute necessity just as they were - while not a necessity - prudent protection to own in both the Alabama and California backwoods. You're right, my comments were making light of the fact that you are (I think) a vegan which is an admirable nutritional alternative for those so inclined. My remarks were meant to be lighthearted in nature.

Actually, a firearm around the house would be a good idea here at Lake Chapala and in San Cristóbal. It´s just that the presence of firearms in an extranjero´s home in either place could become a complicated affair, especially if one ever actually used that firearm for personal protection against an unknown intruder . One reason, among others, that we do not live in the wilderness in either Jalisco or Chiapas is that. while living there one is on one´s own both in confronting intruders and in confronting the pólice and their cohorts. Best to live in the midst of the town which is also a very Mexican attitude where residential clustering is valued as a protective measure as it should be.

As for vegetarianism (not "veganism" which is out) , I think I coild pull that off in India but not in Mexico.


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## lagoloo

Good point about living in town here, Dawg, but if you'll recall living in rural CA, an owner's absence, even for a few hours, could bring on thieves who'd been watching and waiting for an opportunity to pull up with a van and clean out the goodies on the premises.
True in Mexico, too, of course. Being isolated has its disadvantages.

As I recall, one of Sarah Palin's more endearing qualities was her rootin' tootin' pioneering frontier gal persona. I thoroughly enjoyed the short U-tube of the day of slaughter at the turkey farm.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> …
> You're right, my comments were making light of the fact that you are (I think) a vegan which is an admirable nutritional alternative for those so inclined. My remarks were meant to be lighthearted in nature.
> …


And so they were taken.


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## Isla Verde

I suppose I should mention that my question about how could 3 people need 12 guns comes from someone who has never held or even touched a gun in her life and has never known anyone who owns guns or has any interest in them.


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## kcowan

cowichangang said:


> but they were *all declared and not restricted*, and after some inspections of the truck and camper trailer where allowed in without hesitation.


Agreed!


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## GARYJ65

TundraGreen said:


> Stereotyping a bit, maybe?


I should have said, Many Americans warship guns, others, just like them


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## GARYJ65

worship


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I think Americans warship guns, all others like them


Funny pun, Gary, even if it was unintentional.


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## AlanMexicali

Texas Biker Planning Protest Ride for Marine Jailed in Mexico Quits | News 92 FM | Official Site for Houston News, Traffic, Weather, Breaking News

Bikers return to Texas after cancelling the Mexican border ride to San Diego.


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## lagoloo

AlanMexicali said:


> Texas Biker Planning Protest Ride for Marine Jailed in Mexico Quits | News 92 FM | Official Site for Houston News, Traffic, Weather, Breaking News
> 
> Bikers return to Texas after cancelling the Mexican border ride to San Diego.


I guess they'll be cancelling the reality show, too.


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## GARYJ65

WHAT ???
Nooooooooo

I wanted to see the whole show!

They are chickening out now?


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## citlali

oh no that is really too bad it would have been fun but it sounds like the ex marine has a smart mother or lawyer or both,,back to the soaps..


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## dstan

*Onappafa?*



kcowan said:


> Several friends in PV have gotten rid of Onappafa auto registration because it is officially a government protest organization and, as a ******, you can get deported for belonging to it. The local police have advised to just discard it and drive with your expired NOTB plates even for Mexican Nationals.
> 
> OTOH Nieto seems to be cleaning up much of the Mexican government dysfunction. Many processes actually seem to be reasonable now, although it is a deep hole.


Im interested in learning more about this....are foreigners who have Onappafa plated cars being stopped in the PV area? I know several people who registered their old cars in this "system". How do you know that the "local police have advised to just discard the Onappafa plates and drive with expired NOTB plates"?
Thanks for any clarrification


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## GARYJ65

dstan said:


> Im interested in learning more about this....are foreigners who have Onappafa plated cars being stopped in the PV area? I know several people who registered their old cars in this "system". How do you know that the "local police have advised to just discard the Onappafa plates and drive with expired NOTB plates"?
> Thanks for any clarrification


I wonder, why not get official, legal license plates and forget about other "methods" to go around the law?


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## lagoloo

GARYJ65 said:


> I wonder, why not get official, legal license plates and forget about other "methods" to go around the law?


Some people seem to think it's a tribute to their clever minds that they've figured a way around the system, and that those who comply are slow in the brain.
These are probably the same folks who have been screaming like toddlers when the visa rules changed recently and they could no longer "have it both ways". Around the Chapala area, there were more South Dakota license plates than there are residents of Clay County, South Dakota.


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## GARYJ65

lagoloo said:


> Some people seem to think it's a tribute to their clever minds that they've figured a way around the system, and that those who comply are slow in the brain.
> These are probably the same folks who have been screaming like toddlers when the visa rules changed recently and they could no longer "have it both ways". Around the Chapala area, there were more South Dakota license plates than there are residents of Clay County, South Dakota.


I fully agree on that.

Some people feel that trying to beat the system is their goal in life, and that's ok with me too, but why do they want to come and do it here?
We have a saying: que se haga la voluntad de Dios, en los bueyes de mi compadre


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> I fully agree on that.
> 
> Some people feel that trying to beat the system is their goal in life, and that's ok with me too, but why do they want to come and do it here?
> We have a saying: que se haga la voluntad de Dios, en los bueyes de mi compadre


It's against Forum Rules (#6 to be precise) to make posts in languages other than English, but if you provide a translation of this apt Mexican proverb, I'll let it slide. 
Thanks!


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> It's against Forum Rules (#6 to be precise) to make posts in languages other than English, but if you provide a translation of this apt Mexican proverb, I'll let it slide.
> Thanks!


It could be something like:
May God's will be done, in my Compadre's oxen


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## Hound Dog

GARYJ65 said:


> I fully agree on that.
> 
> _Some people feel that trying to beat the system is their goal in life, and that's ok with me too, but why do they want to come and do it here?
> We have a saying: que se haga la voluntad de Dios, en los bueyes de mi compadre_




Good point, Gary.

It´s not really OK with me for these NOBBER clowns to come down here and try to beat the system and I, for one, am pleased to see the Mexican authorities tightening up on the rules. As they become more experienced with applying tighter immigration rules, they, hopefully, will become more astute at defining and enforcing laws that compel immigrants to contribute to supporting the society they have chosen to live among by paying their fair share of taxes by driving Mexican purchased and plated vehicles and paying income taxes on income earned in Mexico such as real property rentals if they become landlords. 

When we arrived here in 2001, one could keep a foreign plated, imported car here forever driving around with expired foreign plates and many became scofflaws bragging that they paid no registration fees and could disobey traffic fines with impunity which, by the way, may have contributed somewhat to the widespread practice of traffic cops collecting mordida on the spot since these folks never showed up to pay the fines at city hall. Now, it is developing that, if they wish to become permanent residents, they must drive a Mexican plated car either purchased here in Mexico or legally converted to Mexican registration. Good thinking, Mexico. Perhaps, also a boost to car sales here to foreigners and why not. I cannot imagine our taking our California plated car to my wife´s native France had we decided to retire there and driving it around France with expired California plates nor do I think my driving in the the United States if we moved back there, in my Mexican plated car with an expired registration and license plate , would go over in the least with Billy Bob Highway Patrolman on U.S. highways.

People move down here to this beautiful country with its marvelous climate (usually) and extraordinarily advantaged cost-of-living and still want to beat the system. At least two nice things; with the new rules, those Godawful South Dakota plates will no longer make Lakeside look like Whatsamattau, South Dakota on a Saturday night with clodhoppers cruising main Street drinking cheap beer and Clay County, South Dakota will be losing its primary source of illicitly gained tax revenue and will have to explain that to the formerly half-dozing functionairies in Pierre.


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## lagoloo

Amen and Hallelluia to that one, HD.


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## RVGRINGO

....With an exception. Nobody ever told us, in 2001, that bringing a J-car to Mexico would prevent it from ever being nationalized and becoming legal when its owner advanced in visa status or to citizenship. Many would be quite happy to get local registration and plates for their J-car, but Mexico has not thought to make that possible. Perhaps they have never even had the problem brought to their attention, or feel that we are all rich enough to just junk them and buy a new car in Mexico. That situation leaves a sour taste in many mouths, when it could easily have been handled with a grandfather clause through Aduana for those becoming Inmigrado, Permanente or Ciudidano, but had cars here before the 2012 changes and which have not been out of the country since before that time.


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## kcowan

dstan said:


> How do you know that the "local police have advised to just discard the Onappafa plates and drive with expired NOTB plates"?
> Thanks for any clarrification


Our Mexican neighbour drives a Jeep Cherokee with BC plates and he had Onappafa over them. After getting the advice, he threw them out.


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## kcowan

RVGRINGO said:


> ....With an exception. Nobody ever told us, in 2001, that bringing a J-car to Mexico would prevent it from ever being nationalized and becoming legal when its owner advanced in visa status or to citizenship. ..


The latest scam here in PV is to get DF plates for the J-car, or G-car, and drive around in Jalisco happily until the federales notice that your car is still in the TIP database and impound it!


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## lagoloo

I wonder how long you could reside in the U.S. with a Mexican plated car, especially one that couldn't pass some of the stricter emissions tests? Just saying.


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## RVGRINGO

The problem is that a J-car could be temporarily imported quite legally, but could not be nationalized; ever! That fact was not widely known a decade or more ago. Yet, it was protected as long as one held a valid visa. Then, they changed the laws with no regard to folks in that trap; in spite of there being a law that prevents a change in law from damaging someone....they ignore that one, I think. It is a Catch-22.
In the USA, one can import almost anything from almost anywhere. Some modifications may have to be made. One may also drive a foreign plated car in the USA for up to a year without importing it, or until a lesser period if one takes up residence. State laws are not consistent with the federal laws in all cases; here or in the USA. We would be glad to nationalize our J-car at a reasonable fee, but it is not possible. Sadly, for others with NAFTA cars that are older, the fees and the need to go to the border are just too much of a hurdle, exceeding the value of an older car, or the abilities of an older expat.


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## TundraGreen

kcowan said:


> Our Mexican neighbour drives a Jeep Cherokee with BC plates and he had Onappafa over them. After getting the advice, he threw them out.


BC = British Columbia?
or
BC = Baja California?


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## kcowan

Yes sorry I never lived in Baja. We did buy a car from Mexicali but had it plated in Jalisco.


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