# Heating the house



## Guest

Hello everybody,
Since four month I live with my family in Altea. Now fall is approaching and in about 3 month we will probably have to start heat up our “piso”. There is no such a thing as central heating in the place. I’ve heard that many people her do heat with some portable gas heaters, but was also informed that there is a certain danger with those things. Electric is probably better, but also probably very expensive? I do not know which way to go. Does someone, can give some advice about this?
Thanks in advance, eva33


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*heating*



Eva33 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Since four month I live with my family in Altea. Now fall is approaching and in about 3 month we will probably have to start heat up our “piso”. There is no such a thing as central heating in the place. I’ve heard that many people her do heat with some portable gas heaters, but was also informed that there is a certain danger with those things. Electric is probably better, but also probably very expensive? I do not know which way to go. Does someone, can give some advice about this?
> Thanks in advance, eva33


Hello Eve33
When you say "portable gas heaters" I suppose you mean the ones that you can move around and that work on bottled gas. They are probably your cheapest option. I think the danger is if you get an old model and you don't get it serviced. If you were going to get this type of heating I personally would buy new and get all the information about when you have to have it checked or cleaned or whatever from the seller.
Another option is an oil filled electric heater. As they are filled with oil the heat stays for longer. You can regulate the temperature on them. It's a cheaper option than just having electric heat.
Any more ideas out there??


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hello Eve33
> When you say "portable gas heaters" I suppose you mean the ones that you can move around and that work on bottled gas. They are probably your cheapest option. I think the danger is if you get an old model and you don't get it serviced. If you were going to get this type of heating I personally would buy new and get all the information about when you have to have it checked or cleaned or whatever from the seller.
> Another option is an oil filled electric heater. As they are filled with oil the heat stays for longer. You can regulate the temperature on them. It's a cheaper option than just having electric heat.
> Any more ideas out there??


the gas ones definitely work out the cheapest - & you can move them room to room (wouldn't want one in the bedroom though)

you need some ventilation if you are using them, and I found they dry the air, so always had a bowl of water nearby

those oil-filled rads use a lot of electricity


----------



## Guest

Eva33 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Since four month I live with my family in Altea. Now fall is approaching and in about 3 month we will probably have to start heat up our “piso”. There is no such a thing as central heating in the place. I’ve heard that many people her do heat with some portable gas heaters, but was also informed that there is a certain danger with those things. Electric is probably better, but also probably very expensive? I do not know which way to go. Does someone, can give some advice about this?
> Thanks in advance, eva33


The gas heaters do work out a little cheaper although surprisingly not that much. They do however cause condensation so you may end up with mouldly walls and clothes. A log burner gives out a huge amount of heat and is nice to look at There are diferetn types of electric heaters, for instance Leroy Merlin do ceramic panle heaters which give off a contsant heat and are low cost to run. Take a look around and check out the options


----------



## nikkiwinter

Eva33 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Since four month I live with my family in Altea. Now fall is approaching and in about 3 month we will probably have to start heat up our “piso”. There is no such a thing as central heating in the place. I’ve heard that many people her do heat with some portable gas heaters, but was also informed that there is a certain danger with those things. Electric is probably better, but also probably very expensive? I do not know which way to go. Does someone, can give some advice about this?
> Thanks in advance, eva33


Hi
Probably a little late now but I have some heatres which are Convector heaters, they are very reasonable to buy and not expensive to run on the electric. They are Norwegian Beha heaters and so they are designed to keep Norwegian homes warm they work very well and have a dry heat so no problem with damp and condensation.
The website for the heaters is Neater Heater - Home
Have a look, we used them this year and they have made a big difference to our home.
:clap2:


----------



## nigele2

Nikki many thanks for that. Hadn't seen them before 

Always on the look out for something for our flat in Asturias. Problem is we are not there a lot so don't want to invest in anything elaborate but even with limited time there (and we are there in winter as well as summer - not sure they call it summer in Asturias? more the less wet season  ) the heating and dehumidifiers are the largest expense we have.

We really notice it when we are in Madrid where the heating and hot water are all inclusive and endless - spoilt rotten


----------



## Guest

nikkiwinter said:


> Hi
> Probably a little late now but I have some heatres which are Convector heaters, they are very reasonable to buy and not expensive to run on the electric. They are Norwegian Beha heaters and so they are designed to keep Norwegian homes warm they work very well and have a dry heat so no problem with damp and condensation.
> The website for the heaters is Neater Heater - Home
> Have a look, we used them this year and they have made a big difference to our home.
> :clap2:


Thank you for the hint. By now the heathing period is nearly over. I did purchase some digital electric converters at carrefour. One brand called "Haverland" is quite good, but the other three, which are Carrefour's own brand, are not worth much. Until now my electricity bills are not as high as I did expect, but we had some days which were not very pleasant because of being cold.... Next year, if we are still at the same place, I will consider this Neater Heater's. Moraira is close to Altea, so I can go have a look before buying.


----------



## Guest

Eva33 said:


> Thank you for the hint. By now the heathing period is nearly over. I did purchase some digital electric converters at carrefour. One brand called "Haverland" is quite good, but the other three, which are Carrefour's own brand, are not worth much. Until now my electricity bills are not as high as I did expect, but we had some days which were not very pleasant because of being cold.... Next year, if we are still at the same place, I will consider this Neater Heater's. Moraira is close to Altea, so I can go have a look before buying.


Whoops... heating period is not over.....


----------



## dunmovin

Aki were selling ceramic panel heaters which use a very small amount of electricty. They are very easy to install and plug into a nearby socket. A friend has two and say they work brilliantly.

The danger from the gas fires is that if the room is not ventilated then Carbon monoxide can build up. If the rooms is ventilated then they are perfectly safe.


----------



## dunmovin

a wee tip for those with log burners. If you have one of the type that has an opening lid on the top, get some firebricks and put them in there...works just like a storage heater


----------



## jojo

dunmovin said:


> a wee tip for those with log burners. If you have one of the type that has an opening lid on the top, get some firebricks and put them in there...works just like a storage heater



So now he tells us!!! I had one of those in my old house. We have nothing in this house but three halogen heaters, one for each bedroom and my trusted and faithful gas heater in the "well ventilated" sitting room! Oh and a oil filled radiator I use to dry the washing when its raining outside - its overworked!!!!!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> So now he tells us!!! I had one of those in my old house. We have nothing in this house but three halogen heaters, one for each bedroom and my trusted and faithful gas heater in the "well ventilated" sitting room! Oh and a oil filled radiator I use to dry the washing when its raining outside - its overworked!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


But you'll know for next year! lol.


----------



## Rofa

Insulate the house if possible.

Cheapest option is probably a catalytic gas heater or two. Buy new and make sure the hose and valve are fitted (both will have an expiry date!) if you are not confident in doing yourself. There is no problem with carbon monoxide - but they do need adequate ventilation - if you don't have that, then oxygen levels will drop. Not recommended for bedrooms. Fit a carbon monoxide monitor anyway - I do in spite of what I have written.

Electric heaters are electric heaters - can't see why one is more efficient than another - however there will be significant differences in how well they control temperature and distribute it around the room.

Log fires are fine. Love burning almond or olive. It is very dense and burns a long time. Use with a fire with closed doors. If you buy one with fans make you you are happy with the noise levels or can turn them off since some are thermostatically controlled and without an overide. If you plan to use with doors open you MUST fit a carbon monoxide monitor - personal experience here!

If you can afford the outlay fit air con with heat pump - very efficient but again you need to check noise levels. Heat pumps (depending on model) tend not to work with outside air temps less than about 5C - so get good advice.


----------



## baldilocks

For us it is a log burner (the logs are free) which also heats the two bedrooms above and the attic. Otherwise we have a couple of gas fires which we move around as required.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

It's a bit depressing that the most popular thread on the Spanish forum is called _*heating the house.*_
I would go along with what another poster said about insulating the house. If you can, do it. I think that's one area where Spanish building doesn't really shine. We did some work on the house this year and we attacked the living room (as well as the kitchen as some of you may remember). We put in better radiators and better distributed, redid the insulation on the outside wall and put in much better quality patio doors which open inwards and are not sliding. We also have a wood fire in that room with outlets (?) upstairs. Thank GOODNESS we did it with all this cold we are having. We are as warm as toast now!!


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's a bit depressing that the most popular thread on the Spanish forum is called _*heating the house.*_
> I would go along with what another poster said about insulating the house. If you can, do it. I think that's one area where Spanish building doesn't really shine. We did some work on the house this year and we attacked the living room (as well as the kitchen as some of you may remember). We put in better radiators and better distributed, redid the insulation on the outside wall and put in much better quality patio doors which open inwards and are not sliding. We also have a wood fire in that room with outlets (?) upstairs. Thank GOODNESS we did it with all this cold we are having. We are as warm as toast now!!



Thats nice :tongue1::tongue1:

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Thats nice :tongue1::tongue1:
> 
> Jo xxx


So, does that mean that you think my post is possibly the most boring you've ever read on the forum, or that you're insanely jealous of my red hot radiators??!!


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> So, does that mean that you think my post is possibly the most boring you've ever read on the forum, or that you're insanely jealous of my red hot radiators??!!



I just might be a tad jealous of your red hot radiators????????LOL However, I have got my portable gas heater, which is never far away from me - it even comes to the loo with me at the mo cos its turned really cold here today !!!!! SUNNY SPAIN??? My @***!!!!!


Jo xxx


----------



## Merseybob

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's a bit depressing that the most popular thread on the Spanish forum is called _*heating the house.*_
> I would go along with what another poster said about insulating the house. If you can, do it. I think that's one area where Spanish building doesn't really shine. We did some work on the house this year and we attacked the living room (as well as the kitchen as some of you may remember). We put in better radiators and better distributed, redid the insulation on the outside wall and put in much better quality patio doors which open inwards and are not sliding. We also have a wood fire in that room with outlets (?) upstairs. Thank GOODNESS we did it with all this cold we are having. We are as warm as toast now!!


This "With outlets upstairs" How dows that work?

Bob:confused2:


----------



## Merseybob

Although I don't feel the cold much even in Britain, except when it is our "Traditional" Damp and Cold.
I still intend to fit Central heating in the house in Spain, cos it does make it nice and cumfy.
And my OH dosn't keep very warm!
Probably not a bad idea as I intend to spend more and more time in Spain as time goes by.

Any advice on the Gas Combi boilers avaiable out here in Spain or would be advisable to bring a calor gas one from Britain if there is space for it.

My grand plan is to do underfloor heating downstairs as all the floors are going to be relaid with new tiles in the not too distant future, so while the floor is dug up I might as well put the piping in.

Bob


----------



## Rofa

jojo said:


> My @***!!!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I was waiting for someone to mention solar heating - on the whole not worth it and will not assist with the comfort of that part of your anatomy. Why not worth it - payback is too long. 
HOWEVER I did see something on You Tube a while ago that is, for the average DIY woman or man, really easy and has a very quick payback and does work!
All you need is a large coil of black irrigation tubing 2cm diam. or thereabouts. Lay it flat but still coiled - you will need an X of wood above and below to hold it in place. Then you need a hot water cylinder - type that takes an immersion heater and has a coil in it for a hot water feed from a central heating system - common in the UK . alien probably in the rest of the world apart from maybe the colonies. Add a pump with time switch (well a solar switch would be nice but we are trying to keep it simple) fill with water and a touch of antifreeze and there you go - at least for hot water for showers - and my house needs lots of hot water in the summer - everyone uses the showers at least three times a day. Pity washing machines and dishwashers are not dual fill these days (hot+cold) - but even then the saving would at a guess be no more than 100€ p.a. for the appliances.
Make it really sophisticated - pop some insulation below, a wooden frame around the sides and glass on top.


----------



## baldilocks

jojo said:


> I just might be a tad jealous of your red hot radiators????????LOL However, I have got my portable gas heater, which is never far away from me - it even comes to the loo with me at the mo cos its turned really cold here today !!!!! SUNNY SPAIN??? My @***!!!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


But it IS sunny, with bright blue sky - almost the same colour as my hands and nose!


----------



## baldilocks

Merseybob said:


> This "With outlets upstairs" How dows that work?
> 
> Bob:confused2:


Our log burner also has a fanned output into the lounge and two ducts that come off the top of the burner and carry hot air up to outlets in the two bedrooms above while there is also a vent in the chimney breast in the attic. All very cosy.

For hot water we have the modern day equivalent to an Ascot Multipoint that runs off the same bombona as the gas-stove.


----------



## Merseybob

So I guess that it might be an idea to bring something warm to wear as well as my shorts flipflops and sunnies??


----------



## xabiaxica

Merseybob said:


> So I guess that it might be an idea to bring something warm to wear as well as my shorts flipflops and sunnies??


next week?

something very warm

even if the weather improves ( a lot) there can still be a chill(freeze) in the air in the evening

we're still in boots, gloves, hats & scarves


----------



## baldilocks

If you are arriving Monday, weather in CdL is forecast for mostly cloudy, Max 10C, min 2C so VdC will probably be about the same. Forecast doesn't go any further than Monday.


----------



## Merseybob

xabiachica said:


> next week?
> 
> something very warm
> 
> even if the weather improves ( a lot) there can still be a chill(freeze) in the air in the evening
> 
> we're still in boots, gloves, hats & scarves


From that I guess you have been out there a while and now a climatised to thinking that the weather is cold.
I'll bring a couple of warm things for the evening, the suitcase has plenty of spare wieght space left!!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Merseybob said:


> This "With outlets upstairs" How dows that work?
> 
> Bob:confused2:


I'm not sure because we don't have any fan or engine or anything. I think there's a metal pipe that runs through the chimney and that takes the smoke out. Then the air that's round the pipe heats up and flows through out the vents. We have them up stairs in 2 bedrooms and on the landing.
PS If you're tearing up the floors to put down more tiles, don't forget the insulation there too! And cork is a good alternative flooring in some areas of the house - much warmer than tiles


----------



## Merseybob

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure because we don't have any fan or engine or anything. I think there's a metal pipe that runs through the chimney and that takes the smoke out. Then the air that's round the pipe heats up and flows through out the vents. We have them up stairs in 2 bedrooms and on the landing.
> PS If you're tearing up the floors to put down more tiles, don't forget the insulation there too! And cork is a good alternative flooring in some areas of the house - much warmer than tiles


The insulation that is laid for underfloor heating turns the tiled floor into a ceramic storagre central heating rad that uses far less energy and lasts longer than the conventiontional rads. it basically is the radiator!!!


----------



## xabiaxica

With huge areas of Spain at risk of avalanches, snow & cold today, heating the house has to be important

El Tiempo. Avisos meteorológicos - Hoy - Agencia Estatal de Meteorología - AEMET. Gobierno de España


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia

Eva33 said:


> Thank you for the hint. By now the heathing period is nearly over. I did purchase some digital electric converters at carrefour. One brand called "Haverland" is quite good, but the other three, which are Carrefour's own brand, are not worth much. Until now my electricity bills are not as high as I did expect, but we had some days which were not very pleasant because of being cold.... Next year, if we are still at the same place, I will consider this Neater Heater's. Moraira is close to Altea, so I can go have a look before buying.


It's gone very cold today!!

Anyone got experience of the Junkers Elaflu, Fagor Innovation, or Solac electric heaters? These are the expensive ones,1000 W typically 200 - 300 euros. They are allegely more economic than say a conventional oil filled radiator or basic convector heater as they distribute heat more efficiently and have a more efficient control systems.


----------



## baldilocks

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> It's gone very cold today!!
> 
> Anyone got experience of the Junkers Elaflu, Fagor Innovation, or Solac electric heaters? These are the expensive ones,1000 W typically 200 - 300 euros. They are allegely more economic than say a conventional oil filled radiator or basic convector heater as they distribute heat more efficiently and have a more efficient control systems.


We have portable gas heaters which are efficient and economical. If you have a Brico Depot near they are on sale at the moment. (Remember to get a regulator and tubing - much cheaper than getting Repsol or whoever to fit one of theirs!)


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> We have portable gas heaters which are efficient and economical. If you have a Brico Depot near they are on sale at the moment. (Remember to get a regulator and tubing - much cheaper than getting Repsol or whoever to fit one of theirs!)


We talked about these further back in this thread - when it was 38 degrees outside! They are good sources of heat, but one bombona chucks out 25 litres of water vapour, which is not great if you have problems with black mould.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has tried the more expensive electric ones too.


----------



## jimenato

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> It's gone very cold today!!
> 
> Anyone got experience of the Junkers Elaflu, Fagor Innovation, or Solac electric heaters? These are the expensive ones,1000 W typically 200 - 300 euros. They are allegely more economic than say a conventional oil filled radiator or basic convector heater as they distribute heat more efficiently and have a more efficient control systems.


I am skeptical of the claims for these heaters, which doesn't mean I don't think they might be better but I would like to see some evidence. Your use of the word 'allegedly' is apt. Do you have any specs. or a advert or anything online that I could have a look at?


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia

jimenato said:


> I am skeptical of the claims for these heaters, which doesn't mean I don't think they might be better but I would like to see some evidence. Your use of the word 'allegedly' is apt. Do you have any specs. or a advert or anything online that I could have a look at?


We have gas heaters but moisture and mold, plus of course the safety issues result in us wanting to look for alternative solutions in certain areas of the house.

Re further info:

Try these:

http://www.junkers.com/sp/sp/ek/informacion/descarga/folletos/emisoresjunkers.
pdf

fagor.com - Gama de productos de fagor electrodomésticos


I'll be very interested in your opinions.

Thanks


----------



## baldilocks

The only places we had problems last winter with moisture and some mould was on the back walls where the rain was penetrating the wall. We now have capa fina on the outside walls to stop that happening.


----------



## jimenato

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> We have gas heaters but moisture and mold, plus of course the safety issues result in us wanting to look for alternative solutions in certain areas of the house.
> 
> Re further info:
> 
> Try these:
> 
> http://www.junkers.com/sp/sp/ek/informacion/descarga/folletos/emisoresjunkers.
> pdf
> 
> fagor.com - Gama de productos de fagor electrodomésticos
> 
> 
> I'll be very interested in your opinions.
> 
> Thanks


The first link didn't work for me, the second didn't seem to have any claims of efficiency and the like. I will have a look around...


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia

jimenato said:


> The first link didn't work for me, the second didn't seem to have any claims of efficiency and the like. I will have a look around...


Sorry that link did not work. This one any better?

Junkers


----------



## Alcalaina

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> Sorry that link did not work. This one any better?
> 
> Junkers


These are gas boilers - weren't you looking for electric wall heaters?


----------



## Alcalaina

Alcalaina said:


> These are gas boilers - weren't you looking for electric wall heaters?


Got it - in very small print, bottom left!
Junkers


----------



## wolkenwalker

xabiachica said:


> the gas ones definitely work out the cheapest - & you can move them room to room (wouldn't want one in the bedroom though)
> 
> you need some ventilation if you are using them, and I found they dry the air, so always had a bowl of water nearby
> 
> those oil-filled rads use a lot of electricity


they dry hair`?

Great ,so i don`t need my hairdryer anymore. this is what i call ernergy saving!


----------



## lovethesun

dunmovin said:


> a wee tip for those with log burners. If you have one of the type that has an opening lid on the top, get some firebricks and put them in there...works just like a storage heater


Going to show my ignorance now but can you explain in child language what you mean by the bricks as there is a lid on top of the one in this house, like a metal dustbin with a lid on. So first of all what are these firebricks, where do you buy them from, do they burn and have to be replaced, how many do you have to put in, do you still then put wood in. see, I haven't a clue what you mean  so please can I have a step by step instruction. Bit too late now I know but may come in handy one day.


----------



## dunmovin

lovethesun said:


> Going to show my ignorance now but can you explain in child language what you mean by the bricks as there is a lid on top of the one in this house, like a metal dustbin with a lid on. So first of all what are these firebricks, where do you buy them from, do they burn and have to be replaced, how many do you have to put in, do you still then put wood in. see, I haven't a clue what you mean  so please can I have a step by step instruction. Bit too late now I know but may come in handy one day.


firebrick we used were left by the previous house owner but I have seen them on sale in builders merchants
Our fire has a compartment on the top for cooking, asteel plate seperates the acual fire from the compartment.


----------



## lovethesun

dunmovin said:


> firebrick we used were left by the previous house owner but I have seen them on sale in builders merchants
> Our fire has a compartment on the top for cooking, asteel plate seperates the acual fire from the compartment.


Is that your best step by step instruction?  
Maybe mine is not the type I should put a brick in. It is metal and round, a bit like a small dustbin. It has a lid on top with a little hole in, you have to put metal bar in this to lift lid and fill with wood.


----------



## jojo

lovethesun said:


> Is that your best step by step instruction?
> Maybe mine is not the type I should put a brick in. It is metal and round, a bit like a small dustbin. It has a lid on top with a little hole in, you have to put metal bar in this to lift lid and fill with wood.



Does this thing have a name on it that you could put into google, cos I dunno about anyone else, but I havent a clue what you mean??! We none of us are experts in wood burners or dustbins lol!!

jo xxx


----------



## dunmovin

lovethesun said:


> Is that your best step by step instruction?
> Maybe mine is not the type I should put a brick in. It is metal and round, a bit like a small dustbin. It has a lid on top with a little hole in, you have to put metal bar in this to lift lid and fill with wood.


You have a different type of logburner, which you fill from the top. Ours fills from the front.,so I boubt if the firebrick idea would for you. Sorry


----------



## VFR

lovethesun said:


> Is that your best step by step instruction?
> Maybe mine is not the type I should put a brick in. It is metal and round, a bit like a small dustbin. It has a lid on top with a little hole in, you have to put metal bar in this to lift lid and fill with wood.


Forget bricks as the stove you have is not suitable for what Willie describes (Dunmoving)

Imagine your oven, with another half sized oven perched on top (in fact I think you can buy such a thing)
Well his fire is like this (I guess) and in the bottom section he puts his wood and lights the fire not forgetting to shut the door.
In the smaller top section he can put in some food, or anything else that will fit like a fire brick.

A fire brick is made to withstand extreme temperature & are used to line furnaces / pizza ovens / the rear of pre war house fires, and once hot will retain their heat for a very long time.
So the next time your dustbin (opps I mean fire) is going put a big clean stone on top, the next morning the stone will still be quite hot / warm


----------

