# playing with a hundred thousand dollars



## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

hello guys
I wanted to know your opinion about what I can do with a $100k savings in US?
starting a business? what you suggest to a computer nerd to do?
or might you say buying stocks or real estate and then sell/rent them?
actually, I have a bunch of hobbies (cooking and sports) and I want live a easier life in US. can I have a reasonable cash flow with $100,000 dollars which help me get rid of employment?
of course I'm not talking about producing $10k every month from this money.
by the way, i can do almost anything for a living, although i'm a computer expert; I've got only high school diploma in my pocket.
appreciate your thoughts,


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

dudes, any idea?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

$100,000 isn't going to get you a visa, even if you invest it in a business.

Or do you have the visa issue already taken care of?
Cheers,
Bev


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Have you seen Breaking Bad?


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Pick a visa 


There are basically NINE ways that you can get a visa to live and work in the US: 

(1) Marriage (or engagement in anticipation of marriage) to a US citizen. 

(2) You have skills that are in short supply in the US e.g. scientific or medical training. A degree is normally a must. Or you have superior specialist skills with at least 12 years experience. (H visas)applications next received on 1st April 2014

(3) You have an Employer who is willing to transfer you - but even the employer has to make a good case for you - so you have to be a manager unless you fall under category (2) above.(L visas)

(4) You may get a Green card in the diversity lottery (UK citizens, except N.Ireland, are not generally eligible unless you, your spouse or parents were born abroad or held a different citizenship.

(5)You own or buy business (does not get you permanent resident status i.e. no green card)You must be a national of a qualifying Treaty countries. The business must have a minimum value of around $150k (more the better) bearing in mind you will need somewhere to live and with any startup business you will need at least 2 years living money as back up. So a figure of $350k would be a nearer minimum (E-2 visas)

(6)You are an "investor" i.e. you have at least US $1m in assets to bring with you. half of that in a few areas. And your background will be investigated to the hilt. (EB-5 visas)

(7)You have a close relative (mother, father, brother, sister and no further) who is an US citizen who would sponsor you, approx time this take 2-12 years?

(8.The R1 visa is available to foreign members of religious denominations, having bona fide non-profit religious organizations in the U.S., for entering the U.S. to carry on the activities of a minister or religious worker as a profession, occupation or vocation

(9)THE UNUSUAL You are in a position to claim refugee status/political asylum. or You get a member of Congress to sponsor a private bill with legislation that applies just to you. 
The S visa issued to persons who assist US law enforcement to investigate and prosecute crimes and terrorist activities such as money laundering and organized crime


Recruitment agent will not take you seriously if you are not already in the US. Writing for jobs is really a waste of time; likewise US employers have no idea what foreign qualification are or mean (except Degrees) it may pay you to get your qualification translated into a US equivalent, there are Companies that do this (World Education Services - International Credential Evaluation Expertise) .. 
But if you are getting a visa under (2) above then you need a job offer before you can get the visa. Your Employer will be your sponsor this will cost them upward of $5k. So you can see you have to be offering something really special to get considered They may also have to prove to the Dept of labor that there is no American who can do the job if the position is to be permanent ©
DO NOT USE VISA CONSULTANTS


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

I thought posted something about Green Card through Diversity Lottery.

A good chunk of the 100k would be his start up from car to deposits. 

Investment property - it will not be a choice location.

Reasonable cash flow - no.


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

yes I already got the visa, I'm a permanent resident of the states.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

if you already have a green card you don't need a visa of any type


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

I don't remember I'd ever talked about visa here!
I just asked about building a reasonable income with a $100k


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

true you did not ..but this is an immigration site .. not an investment advice site


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

Davis1 said:


> true you did not ..but this is an immigration site .. not an investment advice site


ok thanks I don't want to argu. sure I will go other forums but you as an active user of this forum should take a look at the description:

*America Expat Forum for Expats Living in America*
The America Expats forum is dedicated those individuals that have chosen to make the USA their new home. This forum is *an ideal place for Expats now living in the United States* to meet and *discuss all aspects of their new American way of life*.

so the immigration could be the last thing an expat may talk about it 
good luck to you eXpats


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I took and take your question seriously, Ken.

OK, here's what I'd do with $100K, in this order:

1. Pay off any outstanding high interest debts. For example, if you have credit card debt you're probably paying about 20% interest. I don't think you're ever going to find an investment with a guaranteed 20% return, so pay off that debt if you have it.

2. Make sure you have funds sufficient to keep you financially stable for at least 6 months without income. Set aside a portion for that. (See below for some ideas where to put those reserve funds.)

3. Make sure you're well protected against risks, especially if you have dependents. High quality term life insurance, disability insurance, and/or long-term care insurance could be appropriate and should be very inexpensive. Also make sure you've got PPACA-compliant medical insurance. You need that anyway to avoid a tax penalty.

4. Then I'd add to U.S. tax-advantaged savings: a workplace 401(k), a Roth IRA, and/or a Health Savings Account, as examples. Select low cost index funds (e.g. Vanguard's), keep up regular monthly contributions, and let them grow.

5. If you have found a home you like in a community where you plan to stay for at least a few years, consider using what you have left for a down payment. I assume here you would be able to get a mortgage at a reasonable fixed interest rate with zero points and low fees. If that's not correct, take a couple more years to build a good credit history in the U.S.

6. You could also invest in a high quality education, for example a business degree in an evening/weekend program. I would not invest in an education at a mediocre or other poor reputation institution, however. Make sure above all that you can read, write, speak, and understand English and communicate clearly and effectively. Communication skills alone will put you ahead of most.

Hope that helps!


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> I took and take your question seriously, Ken.
> 
> OK, here's what I'd do with $100K, in this order:
> 
> ...


thanks for your complete answer, it really helps.
maybe i'm confusing two different culture/community, because what I'm trying to do is just "living is US with the knowledge of my old living thoughts!".
in my country, when people can save money, it doesn't matter how much they have and from what level, they put it in the banks, why? because you can have %22 right of the bat!
what i'm looking for in US is something like that; you can replace BANK with any other word and replace %22 with any number 
can I invest in stocks and have tiny $s return?


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

You're not going to get 22%. The best mutual funds can do around 20% in a good year but average to more like 10% over the long run. And that's with a whole team of analysts picking the stocks.

If you really think you can get 22% after inflation from a bank back home (which I doubt), why not just leave the money there and transfer over some of the interest when you need it? Surely they must have heard of the Internet and international wire transfers.


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

anytime you want %22 (even more and up to %35!!!) I can give you in my country but you can never transfer money (legally) outside. dude it's not a hidden issue, it's been a daily challenge between US and Iran since 70s, USA sanction over my country, you cannot wire or anything to the states 
and of course I don't have a team for analyzing stocks and I don't have the time for it I'm also not interested in that, I'm kind of looking for "maximum passive monthly income" through an easy investment, not long term like real estate and not risky and technical as stocks.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Stocks are not particularly "technical" in the United States. You can invest in one of Vanguard's "Target" index funds, for example, and just completely forget about your money until you reach the target date to start your planned withdrawals. And they are only "risky" if your time horizon is short.

What is your time horizon? In other words, when do you plan to spend the money that you want to save today?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

kengolive said:


> thanks for your complete answer, it really helps.
> maybe i'm confusing two different culture/community, because what I'm trying to do is just "living is US with the knowledge of my old living thoughts!".
> in my country, when people can save money, it doesn't matter how much they have and from what level, they put it in the banks, why? because you can have %22 right of the bat!
> what i'm looking for in US is something like that; you can replace BANK with any other word and replace %22 with any number
> can I invest in stocks and have tiny $s return?


If the 100k is your nest egg you will need 1/3 to 1/2 to get situated. Of course you can invest the rest. It will probably be a tiny return.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

kengolive said:


> anytime you want %22 (even more and up to %35!!!) I can give you in my country....


Nominal interest rates simply don't matter for these purposes. What is the _real_ rate of return, after inflation and taxes?

Said another way, which is better: a 22% bank account interest rate with 25% annual inflation and 5% tax on interest, or a 3% bank account interest rate with 1% annual inflation and a 20% tax on interest? (And this is ignoring investment risks and liquidity considerations, also very important.)

You need to educate yourself on the basics of saving and investing before deciding what to do, and that includes understanding basic principles like after-tax real yields.


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> What is your time horizon? In other words, when do you plan to spend the money that you want to save today?





twostep said:


> If the 100k is your nest egg you will need 1/3 to 1/2 to get situated. Of course you can invest the rest. It will probably be a tiny return.


time horizon is monthly, as a passive income. this is called simply "spending" these're no such big Investment issue.
and if I put $50k in, how much are those tiny returns?


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> Nominal interest rates simply don't matter for these purposes. What is the _real_ rate of return, after inflation and taxes?


in my country? when you say %22 (banking system) or 35%^(black market) it's *final real yield after taxes* but as I said, the challenge is transferring money and 2ndly, I have to report annually to IRS and pay taxes in US which both are burden.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

kengolive said:


> time horizon is monthly, as a passive income. this is called simply "spending" these're no such big Investment issue.
> and if I put $50k in, how much are those tiny returns?


As far as banks are concerned, we're usually talking returns of less than 1% lately. Sometimes much less than 1%.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

So if I understand correctly, you're looking for a place to park your savings that is highly _liquid_ so that you can immediately access those funds for emergency and other spending purposes at any arbitrary time in the future, tomorrow or 6 months from now. In other words, you have (or could have) a very short time horizon for all of those funds.

If that's correct, you could take a look at U.S. Treasury "I-Bonds." I-Bonds can be purchased directly from the U.S. Treasury online using funds you have in any U.S. bank or U.S. credit union. Your I-Bonds are then held electronically at the Treasury. You can sell them at any time, though if you sell them within the first 5 years you will pay a penalty equal to 3 months of interest. The interest is tax deferred, meaning you will not pay U.S. income tax on the interest until you sell your bonds. If you use your bonds for certain qualified expenses (education, mostly) then you pay zero U.S. income tax. The bonds earn interest for up to 30 years.

Interest on I-Bonds is adjusted every 6 months. Right now the interest rate is 1.48% on I-Bonds purchased now through April, 2015. The I-Bond interest rate will be increased or decreased depending on the rate of consumer inflation (CPI-U), so they will always keep pace with inflation, less taxes. (This means they have a slightly negative real rate of return depending on your future tax bracket, but unfortunately that's still better than the bank account interest that Bev described. A 1.48% near penalty-free interest rate on highly liquid funds with an absolute U.S. government guarantee is really quite good these days. It's a better yield than the best 12 month Certificate of Deposit, for example -- and CDs are not tax deferred, and they have higher premature withdrawal penalties.)

The only negative with I-Bonds is that you have a limited amount you can buy each year. However, since it's early December, if you act quickly you can buy the maximum in 2014 if you wish then, when January comes, buy the maximum again, right away. (Or wait until May 1 when the new I-Bonds are issued.) The annual limit is $10,000 per individual, so you can realistically get a maximum of $20,000 invested in I-Bonds in a short period of time (December to January).

If you are willing to compromise on liquidity, safety, and/or lengthen your time horizon then you can do better than 1.48% APY, but right now that yield is looking pretty good.

So, that'd be my first answer: I-Bonds.

By the way, if you can get a 22% or better yield in Iranian rials then that's pretty impressive, but there's no free lunch. As you say, you'd have serious international liquidity problems (that may get even more difficult if/when financial controls are tightened), you'd have very serious exchange rate risk now that you live in the U.S. and enjoy a lifestyle supported by U.S. dollars (not rials), and undoubtedly you'd have far less safety than a U.S. government bond. (You WILL get paid by the U.S. government. In the _extremely_ unlikely event you don't, you'll have far bigger problems to worry about than getting paid by the U.S. government, because our planet probably will have collided with a rogue star or something equally exotic and unfortunate.) I'm sure 1.48% doesn't sound great, and it isn't (in U.S. historic terms anyway), but much of the world has very low cost of funds right now. Passive investors requiring liquidity, low risk, and short time horizons are getting very little yield. Rightly so, because there really isn't much credit demand for such funds.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

kengolive said:


> time horizon is monthly, as a passive income. this is called simply "spending" these're no such big Investment issue.
> and if I put $50k in, how much are those tiny returns?


Put in in a checking account.


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

That reminds me of a story I heard at a financial seminar. The guy giving the seminar said that he had a lot of his clients invested in Mexican banks at something like 12% interest... until he woke up one day in a cold sweat asking himself: "why are Mexican banks paying 12% interest?". He called up all his clients and had them pull their money back out of Mexico. About a month later, the government devalued the peso.

There's got to be a reason those banks are offering 22% when everyone else is offering 1%. Could be inflation... could be the exchange rate is falling faster than a lead balloon. I suppose it could be a simple matter of liquidity but: (a) not every country refuses to deal with Iran, and (b) if you could really get 22% interest plus a stable exchange rate, you don't think creative international bankers would be coming out of the woodwork to get in on the action?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

larabell said:


> That reminds me of a story I heard at a financial seminar. The guy giving the seminar said that he had a lot of his clients invested in Mexican banks at something like 12% interest... until he woke up one day in a cold sweat asking himself: "why are Mexican banks paying 12% interest?". He called up all his clients and had them pull their money back out of Mexico. About a month later, the government devalued the peso.
> 
> There's got to be a reason those banks are offering 22% when everyone else is offering 1%. Could be inflation... could be the exchange rate is falling faster than a lead balloon. I suppose it could be a simple matter of liquidity but: (a) not every country refuses to deal with Iran, and (b) if you could really get 22% interest plus a stable exchange rate, you don't think creative international bankers would be coming out of the woodwork to get in on the action?


Look at OP 's location and old posts.


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm aware of both. Did you have a point to make?


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

Bevdeforges said:


> As far as banks are concerned, we're usually talking returns of less than 1% lately. Sometimes much less than 1%.
> Cheers,
> Bev


yes I saw the best was exactly %0.97



BBCWatcher said:


> So, that'd be my first answer: I-Bonds.


i'm not gonna kill myselg for a 0.5 percent more on-Bonds 



twostep said:


> Put in in a checking account.


banks are totally crazy! sorry I mean if I or you had a $100m, that was a different story; that could make us a million dollar/year but for small amount of money like I have, it's really crazy to even think about banking system
I rather open a food cart with $50k (+50k for one year bad business) and wait for a customer to buy my $4 sandwich


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

kengolive said:


> i'm not gonna kill myselg for a 0.5 percent more on-Bonds


Who said anything about that?

To buy I-Bonds you go to a Web site (SavingsBonds.gov) and buy them directly from the U.S. government. You don't even have to leave your home.

That 0.5 percentage point difference is, in fact, about *50% higher income*, not including the tax advantages and inflation protection. Why _wouldn't_ you increase your yield by 50%? What, visiting a Web site is too hard? Seriously? 

The difference is about $100 per year on $20000, excluding the other advantages. Most people wouldn't have a problem visiting a Web site for a few minutes to get $100 (or more) per year in additional risk-free income. You asked for a way to increase your yield within your stated constraints, and I gave you one.

Again, if you want to give up liquidity, safety, and/or your short time horizon, higher (average) yields are possible. Let us know.


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> The difference is about $100 per year on $20000


are you serious my friend?! what exactly an American can do with a $100, under $10 per month? it even doesn't cover anybody's bus tickets 


BBCWatcher said:


> Again, if you want to give up liquidity, safety, and/or your short time horizon, higher (average) yields are possible. Let us know.


yes I want, please. is there any way?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

kengolive said:


> are you serious my friend?! what exactly an American can do with a $100, under $10 per month?


Well, OK. Send the $100 per year to me. As long as that $100 is not poisoned fruit from an illegal activity tree, I'd be happy to accept it.

If 1.48% (adjustable with inflation, tax deferred and potentially tax advantaged, 100% U.S. government guaranteed) is not where you'd like to invest -- if you're willing to violate any/all of the criteria you set -- then of course there are other options. As one random example, you could invest in Vanguard's low cost S&P 500 U.S. stock index fund. If the next 20 years is like the period 1994 to 2013 inclusive, then you would expect a real (after-inflation) compound annual growth rate net of the low fund expenses of about 6.5%, less income taxes. (If you use a U.S. tax-advantaged savings account such as a Roth IRA and make only qualified contributions and qualified withdrawals, you keep that entire yield.)

I do not recommend making a big, all-at-once move into this type of investment (or most other types, though it works for I-Bonds). I recommend dollar cost averaging: picking a sustainable, fixed dollar amount and contributing that dollar amount, faithfully, every month. That way you'll be buying more at lower prices and buying less at higher prices, automatically.

There is some risk of course. If you did something _totally and completely_ stupid and invested in that Vanguard fund with all your money on October 14, 2008 (close of trading price) and sold all your S&P index fund holdings the next day (close of trading), you would have lost about 9% of your money in that single day. (There was an almost 21% single day drop in 1987, also in October.) Of course if you bought on October 12 (actually October 10 close of market since the 12th was a Sunday) and sold on October 13 you would have increased your money by 11.5%. So this is not a place to put money when you have a one day time horizon, demand perfect (or even high) safety, or otherwise cannot stomach some volatility. It's a place to invest, for years preferably decades.

There are many other examples depending on which of the criteria you stated you now wish to violate.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Correct me if I'm wrong, kengolive, but I get the feeling that this $100,000 is the sum total of your nest egg with which you hope to live in the US. Unless you have some other, regular source of income, you aren't going to last long in the US on that amount, and on arrival, you'll probably find that your start-up costs are going to cut into that quite significantly. 

Even if you could invest at 10% or so - you won't be able to live off the interest exclusively. Do you have the possibility of some other source of income, like a job or a professional qualification you could flog?
Cheers,
Bev


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> There are many other examples depending on which of the criteria you stated you now wish to violate.


yeah be my guest  why I send you that $100, come around for a 1hr get to gather with a couple of drinks  more good friends, the more happier living.

ok well I guess I should forget about the Way-of-Investment and try to start a profitable business up by myself.
I was investigating private business in different states. for example, these are many convenient stores around which claim they have reasonable monthly/daily cash flow with a $150k-250k capital. I could find even stores below $50k in Midwest with a gas pump. don't make fun of me but do you think it is absolutely better to start a business rather rely on big markets (banking, stocks) and wait them to pay you?
I just name the stores but I really don't want to start it up. would you name a few businesses like that which actually doesn't need any big qualification to do so? (and could start with ~$100K)


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## kengolive (May 14, 2014)

Bevdeforges said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, kengolive, but I get the feeling that this $100,000 is the sum total of your nest egg with which you hope to live in the US. Unless you have some other, regular source of income, you aren't going to last long in the US on that amount, and on arrival, you'll probably find that your start-up costs are going to cut into that quite significantly.
> 
> Even if you could invest at 10% or so - you won't be able to live off the interest exclusively. Do you have the possibility of some other source of income, like a job or a professional qualification you could flog?
> Cheers,
> Bev


Bev, you are absolutely right; that's all I've got to live in the states, $100k 
so i'm sure that I cannot live with even %10 as you said, and that's why i'm looking for a continuous source of income.
well, do you have any idea for starting an small business with under ~$100k? (of course it's good to save at least $20k for emergencies)
i'm a computer nerd, more than 3 decades of experience but without any kind of certification. high school diploma with a lot of years doing freelance job in my country. but I really don't want to engage in computer industry. I want to have a small business for myself


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

If you want suggestions on possible small businesses, you'd be better off asking on a forum that's dedicated to starting businesses than a forum that's dedicated to simply living in and/or moving to another country.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Keep in mind that, according to U.S. government data, slightly more than half of all small businesses started in the United States fail after 5 years. After 10 years about two thirds have failed.

How lucky do you feel?


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

That's an area where I think the statistics alone are bogus. A lot of businesses are started based on a flaky premise. In some cases, the proprietor loses interest, changes his mind, and/or never does anything to get the business off the ground. I know because I've "started" several businesses and just never did anything with them. Those all count as "failed" in the reports, even though technically they never got started.

It would be more interesting to know how many were started by someone who was serious about making that business his livelihood but later found they couldn't survive on the income. I suspect that number is a lot lower than half. Don't forget that in the US, it only takes about $100 (give-or-take, depending on where you live) to start a new business.

That said... $100K isn't a whole lot of capital (except maybe for a sandwich cart ;-). Starting out with no initial cushion or, even worse, a bank loan is a sure recipe for eventual failure.

Kengolive: Since you claim to be a computer nerd, I'd suggest looking into some kind of online business... could be online sales, or some kind of service. You don't really need any certifications to construct web pages, install networks, or to do other consulting jobs for small businesses -- you really only need customers (and possibly a business license, which doesn't cost much). The capital requirements are pretty low (at least one machine, a web page of your own, and maybe a bit for advertising/outreach. The rest of the $100K could be your first year's cushion since it may take a while to build up a decent client base. And if it doesn't work out in the end, you'll end up with contacts in the various fields that you can leverage to find a regular job.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


kengolive said:


> Bev, you are absolutely right; that's all I've got to live in the states, $100k
> so i'm sure that I cannot live with even %10 as you said, and that's why i'm looking for a continuous source of income.
> well, do you have any idea for starting an small business with under ~$100k? (of course it's good to save at least $20k for emergencies)
> i'm a computer nerd, more than 3 decades of experience but without any kind of certification. high school diploma with a lot of years doing freelance job in my country. but I really don't want to engage in computer industry. I want to have a small business for myself


There are multiple options/business opportunities under $100k to explore. As rule of thumb, all are region specific. For example: you can start renting construction equipment in the Penn-Del region, but can also rent heating equipment in upstate New York or New England. On either option, you will need to hire and train at least one person to run a warehouse and repair equipment. Nail salons are also an option, but their ROI it's extremely low and there are expensive certificates and licensing requirements to meet.

Keep in mind that in every new business, start up cost will increase real quick and unless you have a solid network and/or client base, the risk of going under in less than 6 months is high.

Contact the Chamber of Commerce of the City you are most inclined to invest, and find out how diversified their economy is. 

But in all honesty, do not expect to write a cheque for $100k and sit back and relax. If that was the case, I wouldn't have to work 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The one caveat I'd mention here, however, is that in starting up your own business on arrival in the US it would help immensely if you had some knowledge of (and experience with) business laws and practices in the US. I suspect they are very different from your home country - and of the businesses that fail in the US every year, many fail due to getting the basics (like taxes, banking regulations and business regulations) wrong.

I would consider trying to find some basic small business or entrepreneurship classes on arrival in the States, just to make sure you're aware of the fundamentals. Or look into an association called SCORE (Service Corps of Retired Executives) https://www.score.org/ for some guidance and possibly even a mentor to help you with the start-up process.
Cheers,
Bev


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