# The concept of honesty



## Oneman

Serendipity2 said:


> My answer to all of this ... is to sit down with your intended and, over time, lay out your financial abilities so that she is aware of what you can do and what you can't ... Again, he needs to be very open and honest about his financial abilities to his future bride


Serendipity2 - 

You are bringing up important topics, very much worth discussion and understanding.
Thank you for doing that, and I hope you will do more.

As I read those comments above something started to bother me.
Difficult to explain at first, because difficult to admit.
I'll do my best to try, and I welcome further discussion, too.

What bothers me is the premise, "open and honest".
_The concept of honesty is not a high value in Thai culture._
Not at all.
So, if you claim to be open and honest, I am certain any Thai on the other side of that conversation will wonder, "What is he up to?"

After five years of observing Thais very carefully, I have decided to handle things very differently.
I watch how Thai men do things -- the senior men, my age, who have earned over the years, some respect in their family or their community.
I try to learn from them; why and how they do what they do.
I have never, ever, seen even one Thai man lay out his financial abilities in an open and honest manner.

I hope these comments will encourage further discussion of this topic.

-- Oneman
Chiangmai
.


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## Guest

I'm not so sure that the concept of honesty isn't valued in LOS. I see it differently - sometimes it is considered face-saving to protect people from the whole truth. There's a kind of incremental honesty in Thailand, as a result


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## Serendipity2

Oneman,

Thanks for your reply. I guess what I meant is to sit with her and let her know what you are willing to do with regard to supporting her and her family. Perhaps her extended family! 

Many men evade this by trying to impress the girl friend by how rich they are. If they are, well and good, but if not it's better to let her know what you will be able to afford and why. If buying her parents a new home or a new car is within one's abilities and he is willing then there is nothing to worry about but if she [or her parents] expects that new car or home and he can't afford it that should be made clear up front - not after the marriage - or the family may feel he married their daughter under false pretenses. Not a good start to a long term relationship. 

We need not worry about her telling her parents [and probably the entire extended family] immediately but I doubt any outsider would be privy to that conversation. Unless the man is VERY rich [AND generous] in which case you'll hear his praises sung to the highest! 

I understand one of the major reasons Thais are willing to marry farangs is the belief we DO treat them better than do Thai men. Which probably is a source of irritation to those Thai men. I wouldn't try too hard to emulate a Thai man. Many of them are thought of as lazy playboys. 

Serendipity2


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## bmeade8

*Concept of a lie and truth*



Oneman said:


> Serendipity2 -
> 
> You are bringing up important topics, very much worth discussion and understanding.
> Thank you for doing that, and I hope you will do more.
> 
> As I read those comments above something started to bother me.
> Difficult to explain at first, because difficult to admit.
> I'll do my best to try, and I welcome further discussion, too.
> 
> What bothers me is the premise, "open and honest".
> _The concept of honesty is not a high value in Thai culture._
> Not at all.
> So, if you claim to be open and honest, I am certain any Thai on the other side of that conversation will wonder, "What is he up to?"
> 
> After five years of observing Thais very carefully, I have decided to handle things very differently.
> I watch how Thai men do things -- the senior men, my age, who have earned over the years, some respect in their family or their community.
> I try to learn from them; why and how they do what they do.
> I have never, ever, seen even one Thai man lay out his financial abilities in an open and honest manner.
> 
> I hope these comments will encourage further discussion of this topic.
> 
> -- Oneman
> Chiangmai
> .


Well it it true that Thais don't lie in their eyes. to them 10% true is still not a lie. this makes some mad because we are from a culture that values 100% truth But here it is normal and expected in many case to help others save face. If your worried about weather or not you should lie or not here, i think it doesn't matter. Why? well your wife sees things thru Thai eyes and always will. to her you are a man and men lie. Its just normal here. You can talk till you are blue in the face about the value of truth but it is how it is here. I think your time is better spent learning how to lie to keep the peace opposed to trying to teach her to tell the truth. Many come and try to change their wife and leave having learned nothing. to be happy in thailand you must accept how it is here and change yourself. And that is the truth.

Now about money and financial abilities

In thailand husband and wife don't share money. his money is his and hers is hers. The husband gives the wife money every month to pay bills and she skimes off what she can for herself as well as does work for her own play money. 90% of the time the wife doesn't really know just how much the husband gets paid, she just has about how much. from what i have learned after 13 years it is better to never let her know the real amount of your income. if you do, that's is how much she will try to spend and then think you are lieing and ask for more. Thais live hand to mouth and don't really understand savings. if your getting 40,000 say you can spend 25,000 and she will push it to 30,000 with the buffalo is sick. Yes it happens and you should not get mad about it, its normal. It's the stupid guys how tell the real amount and get mad when she pushes for more. you must know she would do this to a thai husband also. Only dif is he knows how to side step and we get hit by the 18 wheeler.
Many have grown neg over the years because they can't learn to play the game. they get old and stuck in their ways. if you want to live here happy you have to have some flex left in you. It's a great country but the culture is really dif from ours. A litte learning goes a long way to Happyness

Good luck


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