# Spain. Can't decide the region



## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi there. First of all thank you all for such a pleasant and informative community. Have read pleanty of valuable advice.

I have a tricky question to decide and I do not expect simple solution. But probably, you can point out flaws in my thoughts.

So, I like Spain and planning to move there. 
Employment is not a problem currently, as I will keep working remotely. I am not talking about lots of money, therefore cost question is also considered. Main point is property as this is what "steals" most of the money everywhere.

And I hold a valid EU passport, of course.

I will move with my girlfriend (we are both in the late 20's) with the prospect of having children.

Now, I narrowed down my preferences to the following locations with their pros and cons. I tried to sort them in the "cost" order

1) Barcelona.
Favourite location, been there.

+ European cosmopolitan city, everything is there. Lots of cultural events. Also, beaches, sea, mountains. All in one.
+ 3 airports nearby, easier to travel.

- High costs, especially for property. I believe, this is the main downside for the young family in this city.


2) Ibiza. Been there as well.

+ Magic island with unique atmosphere.
+ Beautiful nature (seems richer, than on the mainland).

- Also expensive. But imho, a bit cheaper than Barcelona (please comment?)
- Really small.
- A bit deserted in winter, as summer season oriented. I cannot say that I am fond of parties every night, but seems like island becomes really empty. 
- Many think that not the perfect choice for raising children, though there are many quiet areas like Santa Eularia des Riu etc.

3) Mallorca. Never been

+ Seems cheaper than Ibiza.
+ Also magnificent nature. Mountains, fields, beaches, warm water.
+ Big one.
+ Relatively big population. Also means that not so dead in winter as Ibiza.


4) Valencia. Never been there.

+ From what I read, it is similar to Barcelona, but quiter, less touristic, more "Spanish".
+ Still beaches and warm water and lots to do.

5) Canarias (Tenerife?). Been there.

+ Relatively cheap. I checked some property selling websites and seems there is a real possibility to get a house at a price of a flat in Barcelona/Ibiza. Also, VAT-IVA is lower.
+ Climate. "Eternal spring", very good for children and when becoming older.

- Far away from Europe. I like travelling and also would like to visit relatives often. Despite there is a 50% discount on flights for residents, prices can still be high and all these discounts and reduced VAT advantage can slowly be taken away as economy goes down.
- In my opinion nature is poorer than on Balearic islands, as Tenerife is a volcano actually. But northern part is wetter and greener.
- Small con is that water temp are low. But then there is no winter at all 


I addition, 

1) Barcelona, Valencia and Mallorca have something except tourism and in case I have to find a new job, these locations seem to be preferable.

2) Med locations experience winter. It is not so cold as in Northern Europe, of course, but still can be nasty and wet. Storms are also often (I believe?). And as southern countries tend to build apartments without proper heat insulation and heting system, then heating the house can become a serious expense problem (I am used to wear a T-Shirt and shorts at home in winter . Canaries have a strong plus here.

3) And as I like travelling, then mainland locations seem better as I can get in a car and go different regions, even France, Italy etc. It is not so easy with islands.

Thanks for reading all these thoughts and hope for your valuable comments, which can help me to decide.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Blimey you are ambitious! I have lived in Ibiza previously for 25years, it's lovely island great place for kids, very liberated, hardly any crime, only true crime is tourism related! As long as you integrate you shouldn't have a problem, also 50% discount on travel! Santa Eulalia is slightly more open all year round. I like many love the winters in Ibiza, good weather, great place & time to socialise, summers are full on. I'm now living in Denia close to VALENCIA, lovely place but not a match on Ibiza !!


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi agua642! Thanks for your reply. Ibiza is charming and only few can resist 

May I ask you, why you decided to leave it after 25 years? That's quarter of the century!

And could you please comment on Ibiza - Valencia cost of living difference? Property, utilities, food, service? There are various sites to compare, but opinions of the local are much more valuable here.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I can only comment on Valencia,as I have lived in the same area and visit quite a lot
Valencia is very touristy, in that lots of people go there as its a lovely city. Its very varied with lots of wide avenues in areas, whereas the city itself of course is very busy. I wouldn't say its particularly more "Spanish" than Barcelona, just smaller.

However if you're going to live somewhere like Valencia city then you are going to pay the price property wise. Theres a good train service that runs down the coast you know, all the way to Gandia. Lots of towns and villages on the way, and from Gandia to Valencia its about 55 minutes and about €6.50 return.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Valencia would be a good place if you are just looking at cost - a lot of cheap rentals around there (probably not so much if you head towards coastal resort areas).
Have you considered the Malaga area? A bit more expensive than Valencia, but there may be more business opportunities, and plenty of flight connections.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Tenerife is only one of the seven larger Canary Islands, all are completely different, perhaps first you should widen your horizon and visit the others.

Regarding travel discounts for residents, this is only for internal flights and ferries, within Spanish territories and the said permit has to be renewed every six months.

Photos of the remote island where I live below.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi *Stravinsky*, thanks. So, basically, it is like Barcelona, except of a size? Also, lots to do, activities, cultural events etc? Crime level low or?
Despite there is a fast train I still think about living closer to the city. Otherwise, I will travel there once in a week or even less 

What is about nature there? Is it green or more deserted?


Hi, *webmarcos*. Business opportunities - I have heard and read that Malaga has been hit by economic issues even harder than others. Or am I wrong?

Also, I feel that climate in Malaga is way too hot for me. Though, I like sun and warm weather..


*Hepa*, thanks for your advice. However, it seems that even Tenerife and Gran Canaria are a bit too quiet for a younger couple like us, so I think smaller islands are even more relaxed. This can be the best option for retirement, though.

Nice photos in your profile! I should definitely visit El Hierro one day.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Hi "Tapas", the reason I'm negotiating the purchase of a business in Spain myself (although it's in Madrid, not Malaga) is because there are bargains around. The business I'm buying would cost maybe 4 times as much in London. You just have to make sure that you can tap into the international market, either by exports, or some of the 57 million tourists who visit Spain each year.
Here are a couple of articles that may be of interest. The first is on how the retail sector in Madrid is tapping into luxury goods bought by tourists. The second highlights the Malaga tech scene, and some of the difficulties they face.



> A recently published survey by BBVA bank on the impact of tourism on retailing shows that spending on shopping by foreign visitors in the Salamanca district alone last year rose by 15 percent on 2011 to 38 million euros, making up a quarter of all sales in the capital.


How to spend it in Madrid | In English | EL PAÍS

Sun, Beaches and Tech Companies by the Hundreds - Bloomberg


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi. This is interesting reading. I am open to different busiess opportunities and if I come across a good one, I will try myself in it.

Though, actually, second article mentiones difficulties for the tech companies in Malaga. This seems to be not a very good sign.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Tapas said:


> Hi *Stravinsky*, thanks. So, basically, it is like Barcelona, except of a size? Also, lots to do, activities, cultural events etc? Crime level low or?
> Despite there is a fast train I still think about living closer to the city. Otherwise, I will travel there once in a week or even less
> 
> What is about nature there? Is it green or more deserted?


I'm not sure about property rentals always being that cheap in Valencia City, although certainly they will be cheaper than Barcelona. I wouldnt say Valencia is a scaled down version Of Barcelona either, the archhitecture in Barcelona is of course very Gaudi

Theres a park that runs right through Valencia, its the old river bed, and it has walks, sports areas and of course the Science Park and sea life centre. There is also an excellent zoo, the Bio Park. I must have visited it about 10 times, as I am a keen photographer. The Fallas festival every year is something to behold. I wonder they havent managed to burn the city down yet.

Of course there are lots of activities and cultural events. You'd need to check out local tourism sites

Part of the science park










From the Bio Park










Entrance from the river bed


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*Stravinsky*, thanks, this sounds promising. Will have a closer look at the property market..

btw, something wrong with your images, they're not loading.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Tapas said:


> Hi there. First of all thank you all for such a pleasant and informative community. Have read pleanty of valuable advice.
> 
> I have a tricky question to decide and I do not expect simple solution. But probably, you can point out flaws in my thoughts.
> 
> ...


Negatives about Mallorca I can think of...


-Relatively expensive property, can't compare it to Ibiza, but I thought Mallorca had the most expensive real estate of the Balearics. Not too far from Barcelona prices and Basque prices.

-Influx of German/British tourists.

-Still an island at the end of the day.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Tapas said:


> *
> 
> btw, something wrong with your images, they're not loading.*


*

Could be your settings, they are all there and I can see them*


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Strav, I love your photos. Wish they were published in a book so I could buy them. True works of art.

P.S. I am not his mum


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*Sirtravelot*, seems, tourists are everywhere now - Barcelona, Valencia, Canaries, Balearics ) Agree about island, though it is the biggest one.

Regarding price. Looks like more expensive than Valencia and of course, Canaries, but I got an impression that still behind Ibiza

*Stravinsky*, wow, amazing pics you have. Checked also your website, very nice!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Strav, I love your photos. Wish they were published in a book so I could buy them. True works of art.
> 
> P.S. I am not his mum



Thanks Mum


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Mary sometimes comes across on here as a hard nosed, cruel, often farcical figure spewing out total hatred and loathing, upsetting scores of people with her hideous rhetoric and political nonsense.... hang on, sorry I was thinking of Maggie Thatcher and of course Mary is MY MUM STRAV SO BACK OFF.......

Mary we love you. Nearly all the time...


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

thrax said:


> Mary sometimes comes across on here as a hard nosed, cruel, often farcical figure spewing out total hatred and loathing, upsetting scores of people with her hideous rhetoric and political nonsense.... hang on, sorry I was thinking of Maggie Thatcher and of course Mary is MY MUM STRAV SO BACK OFF.......
> 
> Mary we love you. Nearly all the time...


I never thought I'd see MumsGate on EF


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> Mary sometimes comes across on here as a hard nosed, cruel, often farcical figure spewing out total hatred and loathing, upsetting scores of people with her hideous rhetoric and political nonsense.... hang on, sorry I was thinking of Maggie Thatcher and of course Mary is MY MUM STRAV SO BACK OFF.......
> 
> Mary we love you. Nearly all the time...


Love you two:hug:


Now...can someone please start a contentious topic?

I'm bored...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Love you two:hug:
> 
> 
> Now...can someone please start a contentious topic?
> ...


The fact thatI've spent most of the day reading Paul Preston's biography of Juan Carlos may have something to do with that last remark.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Tapas said:


> *Sirtravelot*, seems, tourists are everywhere now - Barcelona, Valencia, Canaries, Balearics ) Agree about island, though it is the biggest one.
> 
> Regarding price. Looks like more expensive than Valencia and of course, Canaries, but I got an impression that still behind Ibiza
> 
> *Stravinsky*, wow, amazing pics you have. Checked also your website, very nice!


Let us know how you decide. From that list, I find Mallorca the most interesting.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*Sirtravelot*, thanks! Will do

Anymore thoughts, opinions?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Tapas said:


> *Sirtravelot*, thanks! Will do
> 
> Anymore thoughts, opinions?



Well .... maybe .... but at the end of the day all our opinions mean very little, because until you go visit these places you just dont know if they will be the place for you to live


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*Stravinsky*, sure! But probably, I am wrong in my thoughts? For example, cost of living and other expences..

My head just goes round, Spain has such a diversity of different regions, all having something appealing


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Tapas said:


> *Stravinsky*, sure! But probably, I am wrong in my thoughts? For example, cost of living and other expences..
> 
> My head just goes round, Spain has such a diversity of different regions, all having something appealing



Let me just say, the reason I'd be more drawn to Mallorca is because there are more Germans there, and cuz I speak German I'd think there'd be more job opportunities there.

Never been to Barcelona, Valencia or the Canaries.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Tapas said:


> *Stravinsky*, sure! But probably, I am wrong in my thoughts? For example, cost of living and other expences..
> 
> My head just goes round, Spain has such a diversity of different regions, all having something appealing


OK, cost of living. Higher in cities, higher it seems in the CDS and South, lower in the CB North and surrounds. Mallorca and the Caniers never been there, but been to the rest
All that is relative of course if your income is in sterling, because of the rates of exchange variance


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