# VERY IMPORTANT: New changes to South African immigration law



## LegalMan

You may have read recently that all kinds of changes are happening with regards to South African immigration law. Actually, the amendments to the Immigration Act was passed a few months ago, but the regulations (how the law actually operates in the real world) are only going to be signed and published later. Some people are saying this will happen tomorrow (1 February 2014), but we don't know until it's really happened.

The main change that people are concerned about is that soon, possibly, no *first* permit applications can be made *within* South Africa – in other words you will not be able to enter South Africa on a visitor's visa or tourist visa and then apply for a temporary or permanent immigration permit in South Africa as well. Applications will have to be made abroad.

I will post updates on this only when the information is correct and clear. Anything else you read on the Internet may not be right.


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## 2fargone

Hi LegalMan,

What about a tourist visa 90 day extension?


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## LegalMan

That is fine, since it is not a permit (and an extension anyway).

[However, just in case you are asking about doing a "visa run", I would advise against it. Going to Namibia for a day and then back into South Africa may not always get you another 90 days visa. Home Affairs has started to (occasionally) issue only 7 day visas to those trying to do this.]


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## su8898

Hi LegalMan
Thanks for this information. Any update on this? Is this signed into law now?

Will it be possible to apply for permanent residency from within SA if I have work permit? Also, will I need to go back apply again just to extend my work permit?


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## LegalMan

Nothing can be said 100% for sure until the regulations are published.

However, extensions should be able to be completed within South Africa - it is only the CHANGE of status (i.e. permit) that requires a trip to your country of origin.

So for your CHANGE from work permit to Permanent Residence, it does seem that you will have to venture home to apply.


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## su8898

Thanks a lot for the information LegalMan. Looking forward to more updates when regulations are published.


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## Jujube

Hi LegalMan,
in your first post you say "no first permit applications can be made within South Africa" while in response to su8898 you then said later that 'CHANGE of status (i.e. permit) ... requires a trip to your country of origin."

Can you confirm that last part? Would anyone on a temporary residence permit now applying (or having applied & awaiting) for permanent residence permit have to go back to their home country to do so?

I'm a bit confused on what it means for people already in South Africa but not on a tourist visa.

thanks.


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## LegalMan

@JuJube: You are right, it should say: "change in status". What I meant with "first permit" is when you move from a tourist visa (visitor's visa) to a permit. Funnily enough, I shot myself in the foot because one of the amendments is that the word visa will be used and permit only for permanent residency.

However, we still have to see what the regulations say once they are published. They could say anything...


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## LegalMan

The new regulations have been published and I will post a statement for those on this forum either today or tomorrow.


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## wsg

Hi LegalMan - have you posted anything yet?


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## LegalMan

Hi all - apologies for the late update. In short, I will keep on adding as more becomes available, but here are what the changes mean for people immigrating to South Africa:


· Visas will in future be called “port of entry visas and transit visas”
· Temporary residence permits will in future be called “visas”
· Visas (including visitor’s visas) must be applied for in person and from the applicant’s home country. Applications for extensions and renewals of visas may be made from within SA
· Holders of visitors visas and medical treatment visas may not apply for a different visa from within the country
· Fingerprints are required from all visa applicants
· Stricter measures to combat child trafficking
· Undertakings to submit police clearance certificates within 6 months after issuance no longer accepted
· Exceptional skills permits no long exist. Freelancing sports stars, entertainers, musicians and other individuals with unique skills, which are not listed as “critical” have few options for long-stay visas.
· Advertisements in national print media no longer required for general work permit applications, but a report must be obtained from the Department of Labour
· Intra-company transfer visas now issued for up to four years, instead of two
· No more immigration practitioners
· Habitual overstayers can be banned from future visas


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## LegalMan

Also, and this is a big one, Life Partner visas will *require the partners to prove the relationship exists for 5 years already*.


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## su8898

Hi LegalMan

thanks a lot for this information.



> Holders of visitors visas and medical treatment visas may not apply for a different visa from within the country


does this mean other types of visa holders (eg: relatives visa/spouse visa) can apply for a different visa from within the country?



> Also, and this is a big one, Life Partner visas will require the partners to prove the relationship exists for 5 years already.


Is this applicable only for Life partner visas? Ie: do we need to prove this in case if we are legally married?


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## LegalMan

> Quote:
> Holders of visitors visas and medical treatment visas may not apply for a different visa from within the country
> does this mean other types of visa holders (eg: relatives visa/spouse visa) can apply for a different visa from within the country?


Yes.



> Quote:
> Also, and this is a big one, Life Partner visas will require the partners to prove the relationship exists for 5 years already.
> Is this applicable only for Life partner visas?


Yes.



> Ie: do we need to prove this in case if we are legally married?


No.


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## 2fargone

So what happens if you are in a Life Partner Relationship. You were in the relationship for 2 years. You got the visa it's good for 2 years, but you will need a new one. 

You obviously haven't been in a relationship for 5 years, but have been living with your LP in S.A. Seems your only options are to get married or leave S.A.


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## LegalMan

*Life Partner permit extensions without a proven 5 year relationship*

2fargone: I don't know who you are, but that is a great question, and this is *exactly* what we are wondering too. Our lawyers are discussing it every day.

Only time will tell. As it stands, it looks like they will have to find other ways of staying in SA under a different permit. However, it is our consensus that this is an area where the regulations may change, or where extensions may be allowed even where people don't qualify.


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## Daxk

what absolutely stuns me is that SA desperatly needs expat skills and knowledge transfer, and expats are the ideal way to do it, they eventually leave and have created more employment...Yet the SA Govt consistently makes it almost impossible to go and work there, they are in effect saying we dont want you.


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## shumifan49

Can we leave this thread for LegalMan to update us on further information and not clutter it.
Open another thread if you have questions or comments.
It will make it much easier to get the info together.
Please, thanks for your cooperation.


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## LegalMan

Hi all

I don't mind who comments here, I see this more as a place to post news as the latest immigration laws come out. We have published a substantial article, but I am not allowed to post that link here without permission.

I will instead post the main changes, some of which are above and all are below:

*Cosmetic changes:*
•	Visas will in future be called “port of entry visas and transit visas”.
•	Temporary residence permits will in future be called “visas”. Procedural changes:
•	Visas (including visitor’s visas) must be applied for in person and from the applicant’s home country. Applications for extensions and renewals of visas may be made in person from within SA.
•	Holders of visitor’s visas and medical treatment visas may not apply for a different visa from within the country.
•	Fingerprints are required from all visa applicants.
•	Undertakings to submit police clearance certificates within 6 months after issuance no longer accepted.

*Substantive changes:*
•	Stricter measures to combat child trafficking.
•	Immigration practitioners scrapped.
•	Foreign nationals must now prove cohabitation with their South African partners for at least 5 years before becoming eligible for visas. The current requirement is 3 months.
•	Exceptional skills permits no long exist. Freelancing sports stars, entertainers, musicians and other individuals with unique skills, which are not listed as “critical” have few options for long- stay visas.
•	Permanently-employed South Africans must make up at least 60% of the total staff compliment in businesses owned wholly or partly in South Africa by foreign nationals who live here.
•	Advertisements in national print media no longer required for general work permit applications.
•	Intra-company transfer visas now issued for up to four years, instead of two.
•	Habitual overstayers can be banned from future visas.


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## shumifan49

It seems the new regulations come into effect on the 1 April 2014, according to my sources in SA.


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## LegalMan

shumifan49 said:


> It seems the new regulations come into effect on the 1 April 2014, according to my sources in SA.


Correct, however some employees of Home Affairs may start implementing them earlier. It's always tricky.


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## Skilled

*Pretoria* - Minister Naledi Pandor will address the Home Affairs Weekly Media Briefing on among others the *draft immigration regulations*, Smart ID card roll-out and *status of permitting*. The details of the briefing are as follows:

_TIME: 11H00_

_DATE: FRIDAY 28 FEBRUARY 2014_

VENUE: ARCADIA HOUSE, 909 ARCADIA STREET, PRETORIA


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## alex713

@ Legal Man - Hi there, 
I was hoping you could please point me in the right direction.

I would just like to verify something with regards to these new laws. Having been born in South Africa, but have now forfeited my SA citizenship and taken on A Dutch citizenship, how do I go about applying for permanent residency. At the moment, I am still in the Netherlands, but will be moving home at the end of April. WIth the changes in these laws, does it mean that I have to apply for permanent residency here in Holland and wait for it to be issued before I can come to SOuth Africa on a permanent basis, OR I can fly home before the 1st April and apply in South Africa. I will then have to return to Holland to tie up all the loose ends and then return to South Africa knowing that my permanent residency visa was applied for in South Africa. As a person born in South Africa, are there any differences with permanent residency than other foreigners.

I hope I am making sense - so much complication. OR am I misreading and I can just come in on a 90 day visa and apply for permanent residency in South Africa. I just don't want to have to fly back to Netherlands every 3 months and furthermore I read that HOme AFfairs can deny the visa if you do this.

Thanks and look forward to your answer


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## LegalMan

Theoretically you can come here and apply before 1 April, but in practice the exact Home Affairs employee you deal with might not know that.


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## shumifan49

2 things that are not clear to me from all I have read:

1. Resumption of citizenship. I believe that Alex713 should be ble to go this route. However, it is not clear how he will go about this. Does he arrive on a TR or tourist visa? He has to have a permanent SA address to apply for resumption of citizenship, so has to be in SA to make the application. Or has this also changed?

2. If you arrive on a TR visa, do you have to return to your country of origin to apply for PR visa or can that be done in SA even though it is a status change, not an extension? To me it reads like you cannot apply for the PR in SA, but this does not make sense.


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## LegalMan

1. Resumption of citizenship means he has to drop his Dutch - I don't think he will.

2. No, if you arrive on a "tourist visa" (NOT the same as a port-of-entry visa), only THEN can you not apply for a TR visa or PR permit.


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## alex713

Thanks guys for the response. I am also waiting for a response from local MP in South Africa (Mother works in politics) - should I hear anything different, I will let you all know.

BTW, I am a she


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## LegalMan

The critical skills list should be coming out in the next month or so. I will keep you all updated.

Talk/Rumours of VFS (Visa Facilitation Services) assisting Home Affairs is now on the cards.


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## Bwixie

LegalMan said:


> The new regulations have been published and I will post a statement for those on this forum either today or tomorrow.


Hi LegalMan
I applied for a TRP for my toddler son and I'm on an exceptional skills permit. Its been two months now and still waiting. His port of entry visa expires end of March 2014 and I'm wondering what happens then if his TRP is not yet out. We intend to travel home end of April, will we be able to if his TRP is not yet out??


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## LegalMan

Yesterday, on the day that the proposed regulations would come into effect, Home Affairs moved the date out by a month to carefully consider all the responses from the public on the new proposed law coming into effect.

So we are now looking at 1 May 2014.


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## seanaodh

Is this looking like being extended again? Trying to get material together to get an application in but probably won't be able to submit it till after the 1st...


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## LegalMan

To be clear on this for the moment (25.4.2104) - you can still apply under the old (actually current) regulations. Any Home Affairs official, person or office telling you otherwise is wrong. Until the new immigration regulations are actually published and implemented, there is time!


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## tapsmatenga

Hie Mr Legal man.

I am worried about these new regulations. i heard that on the proposed laws will not require a newspaper advert anymore. Instead applicants will have to get a certificate from the department of labour that indicates the type of jobs were there are no South African citizens. I recently got a *TRAINING CONTRACT * for Chartered Accountancy. 
i wanna ask if the department of labor certificate will consider training contracts for work permit applications because there is actually a shortage of trainnee accountants particularly in small firms. The Employer is reluctant to put new an advert in newspaper becase she says they dont want to receive unnecessary applications from foreign nationals who did not get contracts. I have all the work permit requirements except the newspaper advert. 
your help is appreciated.


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## LegalMan

Currently, contract positions are considered, however the work visa only grants you time in SA until the end of the contract. There are no moves to change this stance yet.


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## Feastarr

Any news on the tentative date of the new rules coming into practice? Is 1st June almost confirmed as the date the rules will be applicable?


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## LegalMan

No, sorry, no concrete news. The date is not set - any specific date told to you is not backed up by anything the government has announced.


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## Feastarr

^ Do you have any guesses as to when they will be implemented? I heard something on the lines of VFS centers opening on June 1 and hence indirectly supporting the speculation that they will be implemented on 1st June. 

If they are applicable from the 1st of June, I will be just short of a couple of days in applying for my Work Permit while on a business visa.


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## Feastarr

...and they are implemented.

New Immigration Laws and Regulations for South Africa - 2014 Gazetted - New World Immigration


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## LegalMan

The new and now revised immigration regulations are now signed into effect, but will only be implemented on the 26th of May 2014.

Download a copy here if you like: http://immigrationsouthafrica.org/Immigration_Regulations_Gazette_2014_South_Africa.pdf.

It's a long legal document, though. I will publish all the new rules in layman's terms early next week.

Just be aware that most Home Affairs offices and missions do not even know about this yet, so be careful when you apply!


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## JohnPier

This is awesome - I have nothing to worry about now as my relationship is over 2 years (but was under 5 and i got concerned)

Same article here: South African Immigration Laws and Regulations Undergo Changes Once Again | Immigration South Africa™ - Legalman is this your newsletter?


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## 2fargone

I just wish the South African news circuit would publish more about this. I have told multiple friends that are on Life Partner Visas there are going to be some changes. I always get 'but I haven't seen it in the news.'


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## Smokey_sa

@ Legal Man: I have read in the draft to the new immigration law that a 5 year corporate permit does not qualify anymore for permanent residency.
Is this still the case or have theychanged it?

I am working for a international company on corporate permit and want to apply for P.R. end of june.


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## hopeful1986

ok wait? so now you only have to prove joint financial responsibility and cohabitation etc of 2 years? please tell me this is true! 

i really hope so as it really is quite a peculiar requirement.

so still no word on addressing the quandary of the marriage problem? i.e. if a couple has been together for 5 years and they get married, does the clock still start over? because that's a little ludicrous! i hope i misunderstood the provision!


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## LegalMan

Yes, 2 years.

After marriage the clock does not start over. That changed a while back.


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## Bexiee

Hi there,

I am currently on a 2 year temporary relatives permit (unmarried to my SA boyfriend) and have been trying to ascertain exactly what these new rules mean for me.

I would have been reapplying for my next 2 year temporary relatives permit in around October (it expires Jan 15) with a work endorsement. I don't have a work endorsement currently, as we were given conflicting advice when applying the first time.

With regards to the new rules, can I now automatically apply for a permanent residency as my 2 year will be the proof of our relationship? Or will I still have to do my 5 years before applying?

Thanks for your help!

Becky


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## LegalMan

*Life partner visa with work endorsement*



Bexiee said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I am currently on a 2 year temporary relatives permit (unmarried to my SA boyfriend) and have been trying to ascertain exactly what these new rules mean for me.
> 
> I would have been reapplying for my next 2 year temporary relatives permit in around October (it expires Jan 15) with a work endorsement. I don't have a work endorsement currently, as we were given conflicting advice when applying the first time.
> 
> With regards to the new rules, can I now automatically apply for a permanent residency as my 2 year will be the proof of our relationship? Or will I still have to do my 5 years before applying?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Becky


I'm reading worrying things here - let's clear them up before you encounter Home Affairs.

1. Having an SA boyfriend is not enough to be eligible for a visa to South Africa. He must be your *LIFE* Partner. I'll pretend that's what I read.
2. You don't have a work endorsement, but I'm assuming you are working. If I'm wrong, apologies, but if I'm right - naughty!

You do not state how long your Life Partner relationship has been going on. To apply for PR you need proof (of cohabitation and shared financial responsibility) for a period of 5 or more years. So, if that is the case, then you can go for PR. If not, you need to extend your Life Partner visa and please get a work endorsement to legally work in SA.


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## 2fargone

LegalMan said:


> I'm reading worrying things here - let's clear them up before you encounter Home Affairs.
> 
> 1. Having an SA boyfriend is not enough to be eligible for a visa to South Africa. He must be your *LIFE* Partner. I'll pretend that's what I read.
> 2. You don't have a work endorsement, but I'm assuming you are working. If I'm wrong, apologies, but if I'm right - naughty!
> 
> You do not state how long your Life Partner relationship has been going on. To apply for PR you need proof (of cohabitation and shared financial responsibility) for a period of 5 or more years. So, if that is the case, then you can go for PR. If not, you need to extend your Life Partner visa and please get a work endorsement to legally work in SA.


Legal Man,

Just reading your reply. If you get a work endorsement with your Life Partner visa do you need a job offer? For example if you don't have a job you can still get a work endorsement?


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## Feastarr

Hi LegalMan, 

I wish to apply for a GWP under the new regulations. A new requirement here is the letter from Department of Labour. Do you have some information about the kind of documents they need, the mode of application (email? Like the section 11(2) visa previously), and the possible processing time by the DoL for the issuance of this letter?

Thanks a lot for your help in advance.


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## LegalMan

To be eligible for a Work Endorsement you need a signed job contract (preferably without an end date).


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## Bexiee

Thanks for the help LegalMan 

I will be extending my Life Partner visa, and getting the work endorsement then, as we have only cohabited for 3 years.

P.S I meant Life Partner, we plan to get married when we can afford it  
P.P.S and no, I haven't been able to work, as we know it is illegal...so it will be a HUGE burden off our shoulders for me to finally be able to work


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## MrTshiko

Hello LegalMan! Thanks so much for your informative post and responses.

I am a U.S. Citizen married to a South African Citizen. We have two children with a 3rd on the way. We will have been legally married for four years come this September. We currently reside in the U.S. but we plan to move to SA permanently in July of 2015. 

I was formerly under the impression that I would have to apply for a TR permit to make the move in July of 2015 because we would not have been married for five years (though we would have by that time been co-habitating for 7 years). 

Under the new regulations, am I now able to apply for a permanent residence permit straight away because of the new 2-year requirement. A PR permit would be much more preferable due to the lack of work restrictions. If this is the case I will be extremely happy.

Thanks in advance for your guidance!

Sean


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## LegalMan

No, under the new regulations you can only apply for a TR visa if you are married for more than 2 years.


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## MrTshiko

So based on the particulars I provided, when would I be able to apply for Permanent Residency?

Do we have to be legally married for five years? Or do we have to have been cohabitating in a life partnership for five years? I thought I read a response that you provided earlier that said the clock for a relationship does not start over when the couple marries. 

Like I said, I would prefer to file for Permanent Residency from the beginning.

Thanks!


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## MrTshiko

Also, I was told by an official in the South African Consulate in NYC that because I am married to an SA citizen I can only apply for PR based on marriage, thus to apply for PR I would need to wait until I had been married 5 years. 

Couldn't I also apply for PR based on being the father of two South African citizens (my daughters are dual citizens)? The official at the SA consulate in NYC said I could not do this because I had to apply based on marriage, and thus I had to wait to apply until I was married for 5 years. Is that correct?

The same official also said that because I was married I could not apply for PR based on life partnership (as I mentioned we have been life partners since 2008, but only married since 2010). Is that also correct?

Thanks so much for your help.


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## Skilled

That is nonsense actually. PR Category 27(g) Relatives applies in your case unless if your children hold the same type of a Permanent Residence Permit.

_Section 27(g) refers to a relative or a citizen/resident within the first step of kinship (parents, children and spouses)_

It also lapses after all your children have turned 21! (This rule is confusing.)


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## LegalMan

> Couldn't I also apply for PR based on being the father of two South African citizens (my daughters are dual citizens)? The official at the SA consulate in NYC said I could not do this because I had to apply based on marriage, and thus I had to wait to apply until I was married for 5 years. Is that correct?


Yes, do this.


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## LegalMan

> It also lapses after all your children have turned 21! (This rule is confusing.)


We've made applications based on children older than that. Where exactly is this piece in the Act?


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## MrTshiko

Thanks LegalMan!!!!


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## dallant

Hi Legal Man,
Please help on advice?
I recently got my PR, and I would like to sponsor my mother for PR now under the kinship (i'm 29). But here are my issues:
- She's still living at home in our home country. Does she have to be here?
- Does she have to apply for TR first then PR?
- Can she apply at the embassy at home? reason I asked is because the new law says she can't change her visitor's status here, hence i'm a little confused...

Please advise? Thanks


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## LegalMan

*PR through direct kinship*



dallant said:


> Hi Legal Man,
> Please help on advice?
> I recently got my PR, and I would like to sponsor my mother for PR now under the kinship (i'm 29). But here are my issues:
> - She's still living at home in our home country. Does she have to be here?
> - Does she have to apply for TR first then PR?
> - Can she apply at the embassy at home? reason I asked is because the new law says she can't change her visitor's status here, hence i'm a little confused...
> 
> Please advise? Thanks


- Of course, yes, for *residence* in SA, you must actually *reside* here.
- She could apply for PR directly, but cannot reside in SA permanently until it has come through. Assuming she will want to come earlier to SA (PR takes "forever" to come through), she will need a separate visa and yes, a Temporary Residence Visa would be fine.
- You are from the DRC as per your profile on this website, and assuming your mother is too, she is non-visa-exempt. She must therefore apply in her country.

Good luck!


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## Chestnut5

Hi Legalman,
Can you please clarify whether people who are married in terms of the marriage act, have to be together for more than 2 years before making a temporary residence application under the new regulation. The regulation mentions people in a homosexual or heterosexual relationship, which is a spouse in terms of the act . I intepret the sub-regulation to mean that the 2 year requirement is only for couples in a de facto relationship, however most news reports on this imply married couples also need to be together for 2 years. 

Thanks for your help


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## Feastarr

*Procedure For Applying For Certificate from DOL*

Hi LegalMan, 

The new Work Visa rules ask for a letter from Department of Labour confirming that that a diligent search was done before offering this person this position. 

I am confused about how to apply for that letter. Do we have to give the DoL a hard copy of the application, or can we email the forms and letters to them? 

I have searched through the new gazette but can't seem to be able to find it. 

Looking forward to your assistance. Thanks.


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## LegalMan

@Chestnut: There is confusion here among immigration professionals. Most lawyers however do not foresee that with married couples the two years are necessary.

@Feastarr: I agree - while we as a law firm have access to people and contacts in the Department of Labour, the public has no idea where to go. Our contacts also are not people that service the public. Have you tried calling them and asking? Let me know if you don't come right and I'll do some research on my side.


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## LegalMan

To those applying for the Critical Skills Work Visa in the future, I have confirmation from the DHA that until the new critical skills list is published, that the old Quota Skills List will be used. You can find a copy of it here:

http://www.immigrationsouthafrica.o...13/04/Quota-Work-Permit-South-Africa-List.pdf


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## 2fargone

LegalMan said:


> To those applying for the Critical Skills Work Visa in the future, I have confirmation from the DHA that until the new critical skills list is published, that the old Quota Skills List will be used. You can find a copy of it here:
> 
> http://www.immigrationsouthafrica.o...13/04/Quota-Work-Permit-South-Africa-List.pdf


LegalMan,

I just had a look through this list. Who comes up with this list? It makes no sense to me to see Call Center Service Manager and Jewellery Designer! Just a rather odd list.


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## LegalMan

I TOTALLY agree. Even if those are rare skills, the real issue here is that these numbers and professionals do not nearly match the research done by the Department of Trade and Industry on how many of each skill South Africa needs. For example, tens of thousands of artisans are needed. But the Quota List doesn't match that.

By the way, Call Centres are big business for SA and create thousands of jobs with all the call centre agents. Jewellery experts are also rare. South Africa sends all its jems overseas and buys them back - it's horrible.


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## Feastarr

@LegalMan: 

I tried calling the DHA on their phone but no one picked it up. I will be really grateful if you could try finding out the procedure for applying for the letter. I am sure it will help the other people here as well. Thanks a lot. 

I'm sorry for a lot of questions, but here is a question for the Critical Skills visa. The Gazette mentions that a person with 5 years experience in the Critical Skills category can apply for PR straight. However, there's no mention of the minimum experience one needs to have to be able to apply for a Critical Skills Visa. 

The DHA have published a draft list of Critical Skills for 2014. I have my occupation (Software Developer) listed under it. Do you have any tip on when that list will be finalized? 

Also, amongst the two options of GWV and CSV, which one do you think has the chances of coming through faster? 

Again, thanks for all your assistance to the clueless herd that we are.


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## Kayla123

LegalMan said:


> No, under the new regulations you can only apply for a TR visa if you are married for more than 2 years.


Hi Legal Man,

The new regulations state :

"2) An applicant contemplated in subregulation (1) must submit-
(a) a notarial agreement signed by both parties attesting that-
(i) the permanent homosexual or heterosexual relationship has existed for at least
two years before the date of application for a relevant visa *or permanent
residence *permit and that the relationship still exists to the exclusion of any
other person ; and
(ii) neither of the parties is a spouse in an existing marriage or a permanent
homosexual or heterosexual relationship;"

could this not be interpreted as you can be married 2 years (or relationship existed for before marriage) before you can apply for permanent residency??


Thanks


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## 2fargone

Legal Man,

What are most couples doing that have not been married or in a life partner relationship for 2 years but wish to move to S.A.? If according to the new law spouses and life partners must have been together for 2 years prior to an application for permanent or temporary residency. 

I know you said this will be appealed, but in the meantime?


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## LegalMan

Wow, so many questions. And few answers.



> The DHA have published a draft list of Critical Skills for 2014


@Feastarr - where have you seen such a list?

@Kayla123 - No, it means you must provide this for whichever visa or permit you are applying for.

@2fargone - Most couples are panicking. I firmly believe if you are married (i.e. formally married with unabridged marriage certificate accepted by DHA) that you will not have to prove any amount of time.


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## Feastarr

Here: http://www.gov.za/documents/download.php?f=213482



LegalMan said:


> Wow, so many questions. And few answers.
> @Feastarr - where have you seen such a list?


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## LegalMan

*Critical skills list*



Feastarr said:


> Here: http://www.gov.za/documents/download.php?f=213482


Thanks for this, missed that one. However this is not the DHA's list for the actual visa. It does give a good indication though.


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## LegalMan

I found these online and they match almost exactly with what we are about to publish elsewhere. It's a fuller list of the new regulations:



> *New regulations*
> The following will be applicable under the new regulations:
> •	Under the new regulations, the word “visa” replaces the word “permit”, except for the permanent residence “permit”.
> For example, a visitor’s permit will now be called a visitor’s visa, a work permit will now be called a work visa and a study permit will be called a study visa.
> This means that under the new regulations, there will be a clear distinction between short-stay visas and long-stay permanent residence permits.
> •	The Act now requires*that every child must possess his or her own passport.
> •	A*person who is on a visitor’s or medical treatment visa may not change his or her status whilst in the Republic, except in exceptional circumstances.
> •	Study visas will be issued for the duration of the study or course.
> •	No business visa may be issued or renewed to a foreigner who intends to establish or invest in a business that is listed as undesirable business undertaking.
> •	A person issued with a business*visa*must employ or prove that 60% of the total staff complement is South African citizens or permanent residents.
> •	Quota work*permit and exceptional skills work permits have been repealed.
> •	A critical skills work visa has been introduced into the Act. *
> •	An*intra-company transfer work visa will be issued for a period of four years. *
> •	A corporate visa will be issued to South African corporate applicants to employ a number of foreigners for a period not exceeding three years, after showing the need for employment of such foreigners.
> •	An exchange visa (for persons under 25 years) will not be granted to conduct work pertaining to undesirable work,*as published by the Minister in the Gazette, after consultation with the Minister of Trade and Industry.
> •	An asylum transit visa issued at a port of entry will be valid for a period*of*5 days to enable the holder to report at the nearest Refugee Reception Office.
> •	Cross-border and transit permits have been repealed.
> •	Persons who overstay for a prescribed number of times will be declared as undesirable and fines will no longer be charged for overstaying. *
> •	Owners of or persons in charge of conveyances will be required to provide,*through Advance*Passenger*Processing (APP),*passengers’*information prior to departing for South Africa.
> •	Section 46,*which dealt with Immigration Practitioners,*has been repealed, as applicants will now be required to apply in person at the Mission in the country of origin or where they permanently reside.
> •	First time application for visa will be made at the Mission and only renewals or extensions can be made in the Republic (at VFS Offices).


----------



## Spiggles

Hi 

I found Minister Malusi Gigaba's interview on the internet, and he said -

"With regard to the 2002 Act, the law is not retrospective. People who received visas and permits in terms of that Act do not need to come to Home Affairs now to change. Once they apply for new visas and permits, it will now be in accordance with this amended legislation. The visas and permits they hold in terms of the 2002 Act remain in application until they lapse."

So, what happens to people who applied before 26th May 2014 and applications are still pending - are they going to process under Old or New legislation?


----------



## capetonian101

hi legal man.
im married to an Hungerian girl.we got married in end of feb 2014 and she has received her spouse visa 2weeks ago.Just last friday she got an job offer.how should we go to get her work endorsement do.the home affairs in paarl is useless and the number they gave me of VFS doesnt work.If you can give us some advise it would be much appreciated


----------



## Skilled

It's clear from some of his statements that the government is out to give South Africans most the jobs currently with the foreign nationals. For example, answering the last question he said that those with existing permits issued under old regulations will, upon their documents expiring, apply under the new regulations. Then, the Home affairs will decide whether the job can't be held by a citizen.


----------



## shumifan49

Just some feedback on a spousal visa application in London UK. We did the application in person.
We applied for the visa 2 weeks ago, was told to 'collect the outcome' 2 weeks later, and received the visa today, exactly 2 weeks later - I was truly amazed.
We were married in December 2013.

We supplied all the required documents: medical report, radiological report, police certificates etc.
We also attached letters from 4 close friends with their addresses and contact numbers, stating the period they knew us and how long we have been together. As well as some financial proof of income.


----------



## LegalMan

@Spiggles - old rules apply for old applications.

@capetonian101 - Home Affairs in Paarl is great, actually (although all Home Affairs offices are horrid too). Cape Town Home Affairs is now closed and you'll have to use VFS soon. Phone any immigration service for the dates that they open this month in your area.

@shumifan49 - This is normal for the UK.


----------



## Spiggles

Thank you very much LegalMan as always!


----------



## 2fargone

LegalMan said:


> @Spiggles - old rules apply for old applications.
> 
> @capetonian101 - Home Affairs in Paarl is great, actually (although all Home Affairs offices are horrid too). Cape Town Home Affairs is now closed and you'll have to use VFS soon. Phone any immigration service for the dates that they open this month in your area.
> 
> @shumifan49 - This is normal for the UK.



LegalMan,

What do you mean Cape Town Home Affairs is now closed? Is the one on Barrack Street Closed?


----------



## LegalMan

Yes, it is closed (I mean for new applications). Soon the VFS (Visa Facilitation Services) offices will be the only places to submit applications.


----------



## SayansiScope

Hi LegalMan,

Can you please clarify this:

With new regulations and the introduction of VFS centres what will be the new roles of Immigration Lawyers and practitioners.... 

Regards.


----------



## Feastarr

Hi Legalman, 

Does that mean that the letter from the DOL required for the GWP will also be handled by VFS?


----------



## shumifan49

What is the normal time for a permanent residence permit application in the UK? It might be worth the while to do that here as well.


----------



## LegalMan

@Sciencescope - No.

@Feastarr - The new regulations state that no-one can represent you (i.e. submit an application instead of you). However, you are allowed a "skilled companion". No-one can take power of attorney from you any longer, except, as has always been, a lawyer. 

So for immigration lawyers, they will always be able to represent people, it's business as usual. In essence, there is no such thing anymore as an immigration practitioner.

@shumifan49 - Within a month.


----------



## Feastarr

Thanks for your reply, Legalman. I am sorry that I wasn't clear enough with my question. I need to know that the VFS centers that are going to open, will they also accept the application for the letter from Department of Labour that's required for a GWP or will one still have to go to the government offices to get that?



LegalMan said:


> @Feastarr - The new regulations state that no-one can represent you (i.e. submit an application instead of you). However, you are allowed a "skilled companion". No-one can take power of attorney from you any longer, except, as has always been, a lawyer.
> 
> So for immigration lawyers, they will always be able to represent people, it's business as usual. In essence, there is no such thing anymore as an immigration practitioner.


----------



## LegalMan

Sorry @Feastarr and @Sciencescope I mixed up your answers.

Here are the correct versions:



> Does that mean that the letter from the DOL required for the GWP will also be handled by VFS?


No.



> Can you please clarify this:
> 
> With new regulations and the introduction of VFS centres what will be the new roles of Immigration Lawyers and practitioners....


The new regulations state that no-one can represent you (i.e. submit an application instead of you). However, you are allowed a "skilled companion". No-one can take power of attorney from you any longer, except, as has always been, a lawyer. 

So for immigration lawyers, they will always be able to represent people, it's business as usual. In essence, there is no such thing anymore as an immigration practitioner.


----------



## LegalMan

*Visa Facilitation Services (VFS)*



capetonian101 said:


> hi legal man.
> im married to an Hungerian girl.we got married in end of feb 2014 and she has received her spouse visa 2weeks ago.Just last friday she got an job offer.how should we go to get her work endorsement do.the home affairs in paarl is useless and the number they gave me of VFS doesnt work.If you can give us some advise it would be much appreciated


The VFS office will accept applications from the 23rd of June 2014. What I currently tell my clients is that we will only be able to tender the application from the 23rd of June 2014 (assuming we are applying from within SA) because the Department of Home Affairs has stopped accepting any and all applications until the aforementioned date.


----------



## capetonian101

thanks for replying legalman.iv also notice this morning that the VFS website for SA is up and running.


----------



## LegalMan

What is the website address?


----------



## irishexpat

capetonian101 said:


> thanks for replying legalman.iv also notice this morning that the VFS website for SA is up and running.


Can you point me to the right website? Unless they grant my permanent residence in record time I will need to apply to extend my spousal visa in July and will need to know where to go.
On the plus side, VFS centres wont keep changing the requirements depending on who is dealing with the application on a given day. They already handle all visa requirements for my wife's company when they send her abroad and seem switched on.
If we'd met and married six years before we did, she'd have gotten an Irish passport before they changed the law there and wouldn't need a new schengen visa every year. Immigration crap affects everyone!


----------



## capetonian101

i cant post links yet on the form.
here is the adress just remove all the spaces between the letters.
h t t p://w w w.v f s g l o b a l.c o m/dha/southafrica/


----------



## jamesjones

Does anybody know whether the new regulations indicated that one can apply for permanent residency after 2 years of marriage?


----------



## LegalMan

No, it is still 5 years of marriage.


----------



## SayansiScope

irishexpat said:


> Can you point me to the right website? Unless they grant my permanent residence in record time I will need to apply to extend my spousal visa in July and will need to know where to go.
> On the plus side, VFS centres wont keep changing the requirements depending on who is dealing with the application on a given day. They already handle all visa requirements for my wife's company when they send her abroad and seem switched on.
> If we'd met and married six years before we did, she'd have gotten an Irish passport before they changed the law there and wouldn't need a new schengen visa every year. Immigration crap affects everyone!


DHA Visa Information - South Africa - Prepare Your Application


----------



## capetonian101

Seem like VFS helpline is a bit busy but if manage to get hold of a nice lady at DHA who gave me all the info me and my wife needed.now we just have to wait for there the VFS office to open up in Cape Town later this month.


----------



## LegalMan

Rumours are flying around that Directive 9 is being withdrawn. Please let me know if you hear anything.

Directive 9 is the one whereby you are declared undesirable and banned if you leave SA without a valid visa (even if you have an application receipt).


----------



## seanaodh

There's one thing that I don't understand, if someone could clear it up it'd be great. I can't work it out based on the info on the VFS website. 

I'm currently in Ireland, do I need to go to SA and one of these new centres to apply for a life partner visa, or am I supposed to apply at the SA Embassy in Dublin?


----------



## Skilled

You go to the Embassy of South Africa if you are abroad. VFS are only for those who are legally staying in South Africa. You cannot apply at the VFS without a valid VISA. You need to be a holder of a valid South African Visa to launch an application at a VFS.


----------



## LegalMan

No, some countries abroad do have VFS centres and you have to inquire in your own country. It is because these other centres worked well that they have been implemented in SA as well.

But you definitely must apply in your own country for a Relative's Visa (Life Partner/Permanent Relationship type).

Good luck!


----------



## LegalMan

News in is that on Monday a court case judgement will be passed for some of the people affected by the bans for those leaving the country.

I will keep you all posted.


----------



## chainbreakr

Thanks for keeping us to date!

Here's my situation:

I'm married to an SA PR (as of 2014), but have been here on a volunteer permit (fancy visitor's visa) since the beginning of 2013. It expires at the end of this year and although we're planning to move out of SA sometime next year, I'll need a valid visa until then.

Sounds like I'll still be able to extend my volunteer visa/permit/visitor's visa while in country? If not, I need to start making another plan...


----------



## LegalMan

> Sounds like I'll still be able to extend my volunteer visa/permit/visitor's visa while in country?


Volunteer Visa, yes, Visitor's Visa, no.


----------



## chainbreakr

The trouble is that there's never really seemed to be a defined "volunteer visa".

What I currently have in my Passport now says "Visitor's (written on a blank line Permit"

Below that it says, "REF #xxxx | 2013 | TRV" and written in conditions is "to continue voluntary work with xxx"

Looking on the VFS site, the dropdown options for visa renewal for my visa-subtype (TRV) are only "visitor's visa" with various sections and all the other TRV's we already know about.

Nothing on the DHA website. Any suggestions before I drive 3 hours to the closest VFS office?


----------



## LegalMan

Aha, then you have a Visitor's Visa and will have to return home to apply for further visas.


----------



## chainbreakr

LegalMan said:


> Aha, then you have a Visitor's Visa and will have to return home to apply for further visas.


I have to return home just to extend this? I don't want a status change or anything.


----------



## chainbreakr

I should also add that this would be my 3rd visa done in-country.

It seems an extension/renewal would be fine according to an earlier post:
"· Visas (including visitor’s visas) must be applied for in person and from the applicant’s home country. Applications for extensions and renewals of visas may be made from within SA" 

Again, I'm only looking to renew for an additional year under the same status, not change status.


----------



## LegalMan

So you simply want to extend the Visitor's Visa? That should be possible from the information you have given. I misunderstood and thought you wanted a Relative's Visa based on your spouse/partner.


----------



## chainbreakr

Thanks for clearing that up. Had a panic attack there for a moment!

Sorry to confuse you with the info about my wife. Thankfully we weren't planning to stay here (she's from Namibia anyway) but if we come back, I now know I'll have to apply in the US.

Thanks again! I'll be sure to post on here with whatever I hear/experience at VPS.


----------



## NoClue

Hi Legal man

I have been offered a job in south africa as an in-service trainee, so what sort of visa should I apply for ?


----------



## LegalMan

This is impossible to answer properly without more information. I can only assume it would be a General Work Visa.


----------



## Expat SA

Dear Sir,

I am from Kuwait, all of my business and family is in Kuwait. I have applied for TR Permit in SA on 25th March 2014. I hvnt recieved any outcome as yet.

My problem is that of every GCC resident citizen, that is I cannot stay out of my country, in my case Kuwait, for more than 6 months. Failing to do so my and my family visas in Kuwait will be cancelled.

I am here in SA since January 17th 2014, and so I have to return to Kuwait before or on 12th July 2014, in order to save the cancelling of my and my family's visa.

I have to travel back by 12th of this month at any cost. Please guide me what to do. I dont want my hardwork and my family's patience of 6 months to go in vain.

1) If I travel back to Kuwait then will I be termed as illegal and black listed and wont b able to return for 1 to 5 yrs time? What can I do while I'm still here to stop that to happen?

2) If I travel back to Kuwait then will the processing of my TR also stop?

3) If I leave SA and then the outcome of my application comes as positive then what am I suposed to do?

Thank you.


----------



## LegalMan

> 1) If I travel back to Kuwait then will I be termed as illegal and black listed and wont b able to return for 1 to 5 yrs time? What can I do while I'm still here to stop that to happen?


You can apply for a legal waiver to Directive 9.



> 2) If I travel back to Kuwait then will the processing of my TR also stop?


If you are banned, yes.



> 3) If I leave SA and then the outcome of my application comes as positive then what am I suposed to do?


Refer to Question 2.


----------



## Fielder57

This is all Rather confusing, My Partner and I are looking to Move out Early next year, Myself on a Critical Skills Visa and her on a General Visa, Her plan had been to come out with me on a 3 month Visa, find work and apply for a General Work Visa off this job offer. Does this mean she would need to travel back to the UK to apply for the General Work Visa before she can start work?


----------



## LegalMan

Fielder57 said:


> This is all Rather confusing, My Partner and I are looking to Move out Early next year, Myself on a Critical Skills Visa and her on a General Visa, Her plan had been to come out with me on a 3 month Visa, find work and apply for a General Work Visa off this job offer. Does this mean she would need to travel back to the UK to apply for the General Work Visa before she can start work?


Yes, that is exactly what it means.


----------



## Fielder57

LegalMan said:


> Yes, that is exactly what it means.


Well that is going to be a bit of a Pain, But i suppose it helps to weed out the people who are not fully dedicated to moving out. We will have to work around it and she will need to find ways to occupy her on an additional 24 hour of flying. 

Am i right in what i have read that on a Critical Skills Visa you have 12 months from the date it is issued to fly into South Africa and find work, No need to have a job lined up etc? I'm almost certain i'm write but i just want to confirm it with an expert first so we can start planning.


----------



## LegalMan

> Am i right in what i have read that on a Critical Skills Visa you have 12 months from the date it is issued to fly into South Africa and find work, No need to have a job lined up etc?


Correct.


----------



## Fielder57

Thanks Legal Man  (Said in a Comic Bookesk Superhero tone)


----------



## Jennybadenhorst

How does one apply for a legal waiver to directive 9 and how long does it take?


----------



## srji

Jennybadenhorst said:


> How does one apply for a legal waiver to directive 9 and how long does it take?


Hello LegalMan,

Please advise on how one can apply for a legal waiver to avoid getting banned for 5 years and how long would it take.

Please share your email id if you could help with the same.

Regards,
SR


----------



## LegalMan

*Waiver on immigration banning (Directive 9)*



srji said:


> Hello LegalMan,
> 
> Please advise on how one can apply for a legal waiver to avoid getting banned for 5 years and how long would it take.
> 
> Please share your email id if you could help with the same.
> 
> Regards,
> SR


1. Ok, here are some facts about the waiver. You would need to go to Home Affairs and get it, but by doing that you would be arrested and banned right there.

What we as lawyers can do is go through a Home Affairs immigration contact and apply on someone's behalf. Eventually (can involve a few meetings and an interview) a form can be issued allowing you to leave. This can take days or a month.

It is highly irregular and you need very good cause. Attorney fees will also exceed R10,000.

2. Since you ask I may state: My email ID is available in various places, including our website in my signature.


----------



## srji

LegalMan said:


> 1. Ok, here are some facts about the waiver. You would need to go to Home Affairs and get it, but by doing that you would be arrested and banned right there.
> 
> What we as lawyers can do is go through a Home Affairs immigration contact and apply on someone's behalf. Eventually (can involve a few meetings and an interview) a form can be issued allowing you to leave. This can take days or a month.
> 
> It is highly irregular and you need very good cause. Attorney fees will also exceed R10,000.
> 
> 2. Since you ask I may state: My email ID is available in various places, including our website in my signature.


Thanks LegalMan.


----------



## expatno1

*People working on ICT*

Hi Legalman,

I am working in SA on ICT (2 years) which will expire early next year.
Earlier ICT visa was non renewable and people used to apply for GWP or QWP (Quota).

As per the new legislation, ICT will be given for 4 years. 
Now i am hearing rumors that people working on ICT will receive a new ICT (valid for 4 years). Since 2 years are already completed for me so i can work for another 2 years. In this case since visa status is not changed i can get ICT in south africa itself.

Please let me know if you have any information on this.

If above is not true then i believe as per the info provided in this thread i should go back to my home country and then apply for a General work visa or skill visa.

Please clarify


----------



## LegalMan

If it is a new application then it will be issued for 4 years.

It is not renewable.


----------



## LegalMan

Looking bleak for changes to the laws - perhaps a grace period will at least be implemente for some of them:

Malusi Gigaba: Immigration rules to protect SA won’t be changed - City Press


----------



## Neilmac50

I am a UK resident living in SA since April 2012, initially on a visitor permit and since 12th October 2012 a Relatives permit with my South African partner. I am due to reapply for another relatives visa as my existing one runs out 8th October 2014 and I understand the paperwork now has to be handed in to the new department two months in advance. I am sorting the police check through my brother in England and still need to get my radiological report and signature by a doctor. I just wanted to check the correct forms to fill in, are they the (Bl 1712A) as well as statements from friends to say we are in a relationship, or is it a different form as I am not applying for a relatives visa for the first time? Thank you in advance for any of your replies, Neil.


----------



## ernal

Nice Thread, I must say, i took my time to go through all the 13 pages and very informative and LegalMan thank you for this opportunity.

Here is my story:

I Have being in SA since 2009 on study and have only renewed my study once in 2012 and the current study visa expires end of July, I have submitted my application for a study visa extension through VFS and awaiting outcome.

What i need to find out is,i am currently doing my postgraduate and i have met someone and we being seeing each other since 2012,she is currently pregnant, though we engaged not married in SA Law, what i need to know is will it be possible to apply for a spouse visa with my study visa as we planning to do a traditional lobola payment in October? alternatively, can i qualify for a permanent residence when the baby is born in a few months? 

If any of these is possible, can i do this in the country or do i have to go back home. Thanks.


----------



## LegalMan

Yes, you can apply within SA for your Relative's Visa based on your permanent relationship to a SA citizen. You can even get a Study Endorsement to continue studying (as you cannot on a plain Relative's Visa).

And yes, you can apply for PR (in SA) once the baby is registered and you are one of the people mentioned on the unabridged birth certificate.


----------



## ernal

Thanks alot and your wisdom is really a treasure on here. Thanks again


----------



## ernal

Sorry one more question, can i go ahead with the spouse marriage and get that through then when the baby is born can apply for the P.R?


----------



## LegalMan

ernal said:


> Sorry one more question, can i go ahead with the spouse marriage and get that through then when the baby is born can apply for the P.R?


Please type your question more clearly. The spouse marriage? The spouse marriage visa? You mean a Relative's (Spousal) Visa? Or marrying?

It sounds like the answer is yes.


----------



## ernal

I meant can i go ahead and apply for a spousal visa after the traditional marriage and when the baby is born apply for the permanent residence? Thanks.


----------



## LegalMan

*Permanent residency through a direct relative*



ernal said:


> I meant can i go ahead and apply for a spousal visa after the traditional marriage and when the baby is born apply for the permanent residence? Thanks.


Ah, yes, for sure, this you may do.


----------



## ernal

Thanks and have a great night.


----------



## LegalMan

Please note a notice from the DHA regarding Quota Work Permits for those who are still on them:

Department of Home Affairs - PUBLIC NOTICE: Quota Work Permits


----------



## Gnomo

I am not expecting good news, but............ My situation is that I have lived on and off in SA for 14years - always having a visitors permit - I hold two UK passports, and was able to 'piggy back' by making a trip to Namibia/Botswana/etc.
I have never worked in SA
Following a serious illness in 2012, which I flew to the UK for medical treatment, I returned and obtained my 90day permit. That has now expired nearly two years ago, and I am still here, but just did not have the health to travel out to piggy back.
SO I have two passports - one with an expired visitor permit, one with an old visitor permit showing I left SA
I have no immediate plans to leave SA - but will eventually have to sort this problem out. I read I can't apply for a Retirement VISA whilst actually in RSA. I would be worried about applying for a visitors permit whilst here with an expired one
What will be my best options to ensure when I leave I am not banned for 1-5yrs?


----------



## LegalMan

What kind of job is it exactly? What are your qualifications? Why do they need you, a foreigner, above all South African applicants?


----------



## agk1

Hi everyone,

I'm back with more questions I'm afraid, this time for my parents who are moving over to SA.

They own a house in the Cape and are applying for temporary retirement permits. No problem there, these will be processed in the UK.

My parents, however, want to apply for permanent res. Is it better that they do that in London or here in SA? Is it even possible to apply in SA now that there are the new regulations and VFS centres?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Spiggles

agk1 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm back with more questions I'm afraid, this time for my parents who are moving over to SA.
> 
> They own a house in the Cape and are applying for temporary retirement permits. No problem there, these will be processed in the UK.
> 
> My parents, however, want to apply for permanent res. Is it better that they do that in London or here in SA? Is it even possible to apply in SA now that there are the new regulations and VFS centres?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Hi agk1,

I don't know which is better to apply PR in UK or SA, but I would assume that applying in UK would be much quicker?
One can apply for PR in SA as long as one holds a valid temporary visa, so your parents can apply for PR here once they get a temporary visa.


----------



## agk1

Thanks Spiggles


----------



## LegalMan

They can apply for a long time on a temporary basis:

• Must show proof of income of R 37,000.00 per month per person;
• Maximum Period 4 years.

PR goes to Pretoria anyway, so it may not be faster in the UK. They can, if they have R12m in the bank and a fee of R120K for the DHA, apply for PR under financial independence.

Here's to hoping your parents are rich!


----------



## agk1

Thanks! I'll let them know - 

Do you know if the monthly income can be replaced by assets (eg. property etc?)


----------



## LegalMan

It cannot be replaced by assets, no.


----------



## agk1

OK, thanks so much.


----------



## yojimbo

*Please help to understand*

Hi everybody and especially Legal Man. I’m newbie here and trying to find a clear enough explanation for intricacies of SA immigration challenge. Tried to read through as much info here on forum and on the net but so far fail to find an answer. Please forgive me if I repeating something obvious for more experienced people.
I’m British/Russian national last 20 years living in UK and married for 7 years to SA/UK national. We have a child with triple nationality SA/UK/RU and want to move to SA closer to my wife family as she badly missing them. My understanding is that I should be fit to apply to PR here in London on a base of my wife being SA national. Real issue is that nobody knows how long it can take to get papers back from Pretoria and SAHC quoting 18+ months. What it will be in practice only God knows and we must have some forward planning for relocation next year. I also completely confused with TRP (still quoted in SAHC site and forms when it supposed to change to visas under new rules???) and spouse visa. Those quoted to take only 1 month to proceed. That’s a lot of difference 1 month or 18+ with some unlucky sods waiting for their PR here on forum for 4 years. I do not mind to wait but can’t live suspended for that long (on top of it unpredictably by years) especially when schools/work/accommodation starts to get involved. So what is a difference between spouse visa and TPR?? Can I apply in the same time for PR and TPR/spouse visa and if PR starts to take unholy time move in on one of them and get PR a bit later? If I apply for PR in UK can I actually be in SA on any visa before outcome and do I need to go back to UK for papers in this case? Or better way to get spouse visa and once in SA straight apply for PR there. Not a perfect solution as even if it is possible it will mean a year(+) longer without work permit. Somebody mentioned here that application for PR can be speeded up by involvement of attorneys “we were told to expect up to 2 yrs but we can ask our attorneys to apply for a court order to help speed the process (legalman will be the authority there) and we had our docs vetted by attorneys so by the time I got to HA in London it took 15 mins to process!!” How does it work on practice? Any advice will be hugely appreciated.


----------



## LegalMan

All PR applications go through Pretoria. We quote our clients 6-15 months for PR.


----------



## simone.fiorini

Hi Legal Man,
I am an Italian national working in SA with ICT permit for an Italian company with local branch opened here in 2011.
Now my permit is expiring on the 15 Jan 2015 and I would like to switch it to a General Work Visa. Some lawyer said to me in April that I should only apply for a waiver to DHA to change my status.
I understand it would be not so easy now. What the way to follow would be now?

Furthermore my girlfriend, also from Italy, is staying with me with a life partner visa but she has found a job here and would like to apply for a General Work Permit. 
Will she have to go back to Italy to do that?

Thanks in advance.

Bye


----------



## LegalMan

Hi Simone

You can apply for the waiver but might not receive it.

Sounds like both of you would need to return to your home countries (Italy?) to apply.


----------



## simone.fiorini

Thank you very much!

I had a chat with a guy at Home Affairs and he said to me:
- I have to go back to Italy to apply for a GWP, but, in the meantime I can travel back to South Africa waiting for the application to be approved (with tourist VISA). Very bad thing since I run a company in South Africa...in theory for 4-6 weeks I could not work here!!!
- My girlfriend can apply for a change of status from South Africa!


I am really confused...anyway I'm seeing somebody at the consulate in Italy soon and will try to get more info about that!

Thanks again

Bye


----------



## LegalMan

@Simone - let us know what they say.


----------



## LegalMan

Please note that qualifying for a Critical Skills Work Visa, by way of the SA Immigration Act, does NOT mean that you need to have 5 years experience in your field.


----------



## goodmrng1947

Hello LegalMan,
As we know Critical Skill Visa is for 5 years and what i have read so far on forum says PR is expensive, what is the best option left after 5 Years of Critical Skilled Visa? can it be extended? if so for how long? and for that extension does one has to go back to his/her original country of residence? 
thanks
HD


----------



## LegalMan

PR is expensive? Not more expensive than doing another Critical Skills Work Visa. Yes, it is renewable.


----------



## goodmrng1947

Hello Sir,
So you mean to say its less expensive than 6080 ZAR? post 5 years? and can we conclude that as long as we are employed we can stay under critical skills visa catagory and not apply for PR?
Thanks 
HD


LegalMan said:


> PR is expensive? Not more expensive than doing another Critical Skills Work Visa. Yes, it is renewable.


----------



## LegalMan

goodmrng1947 said:


> Hello Sir,
> So you mean to say its less expensive than 6080 ZAR? post 5 years? and can we conclude that as long as we are employed we can stay under critical skills visa catagory and not apply for PR?
> Thanks
> HD


PR doesn't cost ZAR6,080 - are you multiplying ZAR1,520 by 4 people? Who are the 4 people? You mention only yourself. You've given me no information.

What does "post 5 years" mean?

PR on the basis of work - ZAR1,520 = Critical Skills Work Visa fee - ZAR1,520

By the way: PR on the basis of being a relative - FREE


----------



## goodmrng1947

My apologies Sir, i didn't mean to misrepresent you. yes i am planning to apply for critical visa for me, spouse and 2 kids. That's why i mentioned 6080. I am right now clearing my doubts about a situation post 5 year, which is i believe the legnth of critical skills visa. so after that period, can i apply for PR? if so how much does it cost? and if not PR than can i keep extending my visa untill i have a job?
this is what i want to know
Thank you
HD


LegalMan said:


> PR doesn't cost ZAR6,080 - are you multiplying ZAR1,520 by 4 people? Who are the 4 people? You mention only yourself. You've given me no information.
> 
> What does "post 5 years" mean?
> 
> PR on the basis of work - ZAR1,520 = Critical Skills Work Visa fee - ZAR1,520
> 
> By the way: PR on the basis of being a relative - FREE


----------



## LegalMan

Firstly, your children don't need or qualify for a Critical Skills Work Visa. So their visas carry a DHA fee of ZAR0 if Relative's Visas or ZAR425 if Study Visas.

Secondly, you qualify for PR if you have 5 years experience in your Critical Skill.


----------



## goodmrng1947

Thank you!!


----------



## goodmrng1947

goodmrng1947 said:


> Thank you!!


Hello sir,
Would you be kind enough to tell me if you also help file petition for critical work visa? If so how much would be your charges? Approx how much time does this application would take, i will be applying from India


----------



## LegalMan

*Service fees*



goodmrng1947 said:


> Hello sir,
> Would you be kind enough to tell me if you also help file petition for critical work visa? If so how much would be your charges? Approx how much time does this application would take, i will be applying from India


Please PM me or use the email address below.


----------



## goodmrng1947

Hello Sir,
Thank you for the info, one more doubt, i am planning to apply under critical skill visa, i am going to bring my wife, son who is 6 and daughter 2. Upon visa granted, i believe i have 90 days to move in, do i have to bring my family along with me? or i can travel first and they can come later say after 6 months. also I have learned that school year starts from Jan, so if they come later, will schools take the admission between year or i will have to wait for next year start.
Thanks
HD


----------



## LegalMan

You have 12 months to find work and "move in". The family can come later.

I don't know about schools, but I assume most of them don't like people starting mid-year.


----------



## Feastarr

I am in Cape Town right now and my immigration lawyer mentions that if I apply for the work visa from New Delhi, the old rules will apply and I won't have to get the department of labor certificates etc. 

Are you able to verify her claim?


----------



## LegalMan

While some foreign missions are still working on the old rules, this is not according to the new Immigration Act or Regulations and is incorrect and risky. For example, if you apply for a Quota Work Permit (which doesn't exist any longer) then when you arrive in SA they may turn you away.


----------



## MrTshiko

Hoping someone can help answer this question. The new immigration regulations state the following:

(12)(a) Where parents are traveling with a child, such parents must produce an unabridged birth certifcate of the child reflecting the particulars of the parents of the child.
(b) In the case of one parent raveling with a child, he or she must produce an unabridged birth certifcate and-(i) consent in the form of an afidavit from the other parent registered as a parent on the birth certifcate of the child authorising him or her to enter into or depart from the Republic with the child he or she is traveling with;(i) a court order granting ful parental responsibilties and rights or legal guardianship in respect of the child, if he or she is the parent or legal guardian of the child; or (i) where aplicable, a death certifcate of the other parent registered as a parent of the child on the birth certifcate;
Provided that he Director-General may, where the parents of the child are both deceased and the child is traveling with a relative or another person related to him or her or his or her parents, aprove such a person to enter into or depart from the Republic with such a child.

What if a child only has one parent listed on their unabridged birth certificate? For example, in the case of a child born to an unmarried woman who never had a father entered on their birth certificate. Would this mother only be required to present her child's unabridged birth certificate or would she still be required to get a court order showing she has sole custody even though she is the only parent listed on the unabridged birth certificate and she has sole custody by default?


----------



## LegalMan

You copied the answer straight into your question:

(ii) A court order granting full parental responsibilities and rights or legal guardianship in respect of the child, if he or she is the parent or legal guardian of the child; or

Surely you have some sort of documentation explaining the situation? Was the father simply unknown? In those unabridged birth certificates it almost always says FATHER: UNKNOWN. If there is nothing about the father at all, it doesn't sound like it's a long form/unabridged version.

Home Affairs wants to be sure it is her child to avoid child trafficking - simply give them proof.


----------



## MrTshiko

It is definitely a South African UNABRIDGED birth certificate and it definitely just has the section for father blank. It does not say unknown although that was the case. There is no court order nor any other form of documentation showing she has sole custody because no such documentation has ever been needed. For example, when applying for child passports and what not the mother need only show the unabridged birth certificate with only her name listed as the sole parent. I'm assuming that would still be the case however I want to be sure. I'm guessing I will have to ask the consulate here in the US where we currently live.


----------



## LegalMan

If it is a South African unabridged birth certificate, then what is your problem?


----------



## MrTshiko

I guess there is no problem, but from the wording of the new regulation it was unclear to me because the regulation only contemplates unabridged birth certificates with two parents listed. Seeing as how it is silent to the situation of unabridged birth certificates with only one parent listed I was wondering if the court order requirement would apply (hoping it would not). 

Anyway, I just called the SA consulate in New York City and they confirmed all a mother with only her name on the unabridged birth certificate would need to travel with her child is indeed the unabridged birth certificate and nothing more. 

Thanks for the help


----------



## LegalMan

Fair enough, however it does list two spots for parents. If you are paranoid, as many are, then carry some sort of document explaining the situation.

Also, get that certificate copied and certified 20 times!!


----------



## ernal

Hi, am posting this on behalf of a friend(foreign national),i have a question, so say u got married to someone(SAFrican),you both have never had a baby, you got married, did the normal thing, then u decided to have a baby, when the baby is born can u apply for a permanent residence, also is it compulsory to apply for a permit based on marriage if you both are married? or u can just be married and not apply for spouse marriage since he has a valid study permit in the country? or does He has to apply for a spouse permit first and when the baby is born a PR?

Thanks


----------



## MrTshiko

I was told by the South African Consulate in New York that I could not do what you describe. My wife (SA citizen) and I (US citizen) have been married 4 years so we have not yet been married the five years necessary to apply for PR. However, we have children together (dual citizens of SA and US). I wanted to apply for PR based on my relationship to my children. The SA consulate in New York told me I could not because my children were minors and they were unable to sponsor me for PR. They told me I had to apply for a temporary spousal permit and wait until I had been married five years to apply for PR. 

I don't necessarily agree with their interpretation of the immigration act but I am doing what they told me to do (applying for temporary spousal permit and waiting to apply for PR until we have been married five years). I imagine though in a situation where my wife and I were divorced and she moved back to SA with my children, I might be able to push my PR application through based on my relationship to my children. That's not the case though and the consulate here in NYC was unwilling to ignore the fact I have not yet been married to my wife for five years.


----------



## ernal

Woooa! But I have a friend who had gotten a PR based on the Child( First Relative). Well I will wait on Legal Man answers.


----------



## MrTshiko

right. I think if I pushed back with an attorney or an immigration agency I could get PR based on relationship to my child. Is that correct legalman?


----------



## USMAN24

MrTshiko said:


> right. I think if I pushed back with an attorney or an immigration agency I could get PR based on relationship to my child. Is that correct legalman?


MrTshiko

I was told verbatim the same thing when I called the consulate in New York. I called back again several other times and got different interpretations. One lady even mentioned that all they do is get the documents together and forward to Pretoria. Go figure. 

It is clear from other posts that PR through child is possible when applied directly in South Africa and has been successful. I am getting weary of info I get from the consulates cause it seems they are not clear or are deliberately giving out incorrect information. 

About to apply for PR via my spouse. We are not married but have been in a "spousal relationship" for over 5 + years. It is tedious though collecting a bunch of information to prove this as opposed to just presenting a marriage certificate but what can you do.

I live in Texas and even considering going up to the consulate in Washington just to submit docs in person so I am sure it is handed in.


----------



## Saartjie

This is possible, I got PR through my SA child. Applied in SA though.


----------



## ernal

Okay Saartjie share more light on the different questions, thanks


----------



## Saartjie

As far as I am aware you can chose which PR you want. My lawyer applied for both for me, spousal and child. In the end I chose the child PR as I thought it was more 'secure'. The spousal PR expires if you separate or divorce but the child PR lasts until the day your child turns 21 (by which time if you are still in SA you probably have obtained citizenship in any event). Hopefully this answers your questions?


----------



## LegalMan

Another (smaller) announcement - the requirement of an unabridged birth certificate when traveling with children has been delayed until June 2015.


----------



## Expat SA

Dear Legalman,
I had applied for TEMPORARY RETIREMENT PERMIT on 25th March 2014; on checking my application online status on 5th August 2014; I got:

Code 105: Go collect outcome at the office of application.

Now, the problem is that I and my family stay in Kuwait and we all hold A Permanent Residence in Kuwait. I had travelled to SA on 17th January 2014; and according to GCC RULES:

"No person holding Permanent Residency in GCC can stay out of his PR country (in my case Kuwait) for more than 6 months."

I waited in SA for 5 months for my TR, but to save my and my family's Kuwait PR, I had to travel back to Kuwait on 15th July 2014 before getting my TR stamped on my passport.

And so I was stamped:
Undesired person; overstayed for 88 days.

After I returned to Kuwait, my lawyer appealed for my overstaying too. And according to my lawyer my ban was uplifted too, but we didn't get any written proof or paper saying that my ban has been lifted.

I'll be grateful if you help me in getting a written proof saying my ban has been lifted and I can return to SA to get my TR stamped on my passport.

Kind regards.


----------



## SayansiScope

Saartjie said:


> As far as I am aware you can chose which PR you want. My lawyer applied for both for me, spousal and child. In the end I chose the child PR as I thought it was more 'secure'. The spousal PR expires if you separate or divorce but the child PR lasts until the day your child turns 21 (by which time if you are still in SA you probably have obtained citizenship in any event). Hopefully this answers your questions?


Hi Saartje,

You mean two concurrently PR applications were launched at the same time and when the results came-out you decided to chose child PR over Spousal PR?

Please elaborate...

Cheers.


----------



## LegalMan

@Expat SA

How can your lawyer state that the ban was lifted if there is no proof of that? If there is no letter from Home Affairs, then the ban probably isn't lifted at all.


----------



## Expat SA

Dear legalman

My lawyer had appealed thru email abt my upliftment of ban. And so he says the reply must also cum as an email.. but neither i nor he has recvd any emails. Can u suggest me what to do?

Also my lawyer is more than 100 % sure that my ban has bwen lifted. 

Please advice me what to do.. as i hv also heard that if ur TR is not stamped in 3 mnths then that TR goes to waste. I mean it is of no use at all after 3mnths lying in the offc of application.

Thanks.


----------



## LegalMan

Expat SA said:


> Dear legalman
> 
> My lawyer had appealed thru email abt my upliftment of ban. And so he says the reply must also cum as an email.. but neither i nor he has recvd any emails. Can u suggest me what to do?
> 
> Also my lawyer is more than 100 % sure that my ban has bwen lifted.
> 
> Please advice me what to do.. as i hv also heard that if ur TR is not stamped in 3 mnths then that TR goes to waste. I mean it is of no use at all after 3mnths lying in the offc of application.
> 
> Thanks.


Look, without a reply from Home Affairs, even on an email, how can your lawyer be "more than 100%" sure that it is lifted? Please explain that.


----------



## Expat SA

That i too m confused abt...


----------



## wali85m

Hi 
I have a question regarding applying for citizenship I have been living in south africa for 12 years and been married to a south african over 5 years i have permanent residence through my child which was issued in may this year , my question is when can I apply for citizenship? 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Expat SA

Hi 

Can u plz tell me if d TR will go in vain if it has been lying in the offc of application since 3 mnths? 
Thnks.


----------



## wali85m

wali85m said:


> Hi
> I have a question regarding applying for citizenship I have been living in south africa for 12 years and been married to a south african over 5 years i have permanent residence through my child which was issued in may this year , my question is when can I apply for citizenship?
> Thanks in advance


Hi legalMan

Do you have an answer to this question? 

Thanks


----------



## LegalMan

wali85m said:


> Hi legalMan
> 
> Do you have an answer to this question?
> 
> Thanks


After 5 years of Permanent Residence.


----------



## wali85m

LegalMan said:


> After 5 years of Permanent Residence.


Thanks


----------



## makajil

Dear Legalman,

I'm new here and in search of urgent advice and direction. I'm married two years to a South African and we have a 19 month old child. my Temp res permit ( relative visa - Spousal) is due to expire on the 25th Nov. I haven't been able to file my renewal application yet because i havent received my new passport yet ( I am a Malaysian) - a technical delay I have no control of.
I think my best option in order to avoid being banned is to fly back to Msia before the 25/11 and apply for a new TRV - relative's visa there. 
The thing is I wish to apply for PR ( on the basis of my baby being a SA citizen) and I read on the SA Embassy ( in Msia) website that if i wish to apply for PR I must apply and await outcome in Msia. This is worrisome for me because I know it takes forever to get PR approval and I do not want to be separated from my family for too long. Is it possible for me to apply for TRV- relative visa and come to SA and apply PR within or is the SA embassy website correct in saying I Can only apply for my PR in Malaysia?

I also have another question? Is there a limit of time that I can be outside of SA with my child ( in case it takes forever for me to get my TRV approval via the embassy? because she is coming with me to Msia) I am aware of the new regulations regarding traveling with children. Just want to know if there is a maximum number of days that a SA child can be outside of the republic with a non SA parent.

I appreciate your advice in this.


----------



## LegalMan

makajil said:


> Dear Legalman,
> 
> I'm new here and in search of urgent advice and direction. I'm married two years to a South African and we have a 19 month old child. my Temp res permit ( relative visa - Spousal) is due to expire on the 25th Nov. I haven't been able to file my renewal application yet because i havent received my new passport yet ( I am a Malaysian) - a technical delay I have no control of.
> I think my best option in order to avoid being banned is to fly back to Msia before the 25/11 and apply for a new TRV - relative's visa there.
> The thing is I wish to apply for PR ( on the basis of my baby being a SA citizen) and I read on the SA Embassy ( in Msia) website that if i wish to apply for PR I must apply and await outcome in Msia. This is worrisome for me because I know it takes forever to get PR approval and I do not want to be separated from my family for too long. Is it possible for me to apply for TRV- relative visa and come to SA and apply PR within or is the SA embassy website correct in saying I Can only apply for my PR in Malaysia?
> 
> I also have another question? Is there a limit of time that I can be outside of SA with my child ( in case it takes forever for me to get my TRV approval via the embassy? because she is coming with me to Msia) I am aware of the new regulations regarding traveling with children. Just want to know if there is a maximum number of days that a SA child can be outside of the republic with a non SA parent.
> 
> I appreciate your advice in this.


I have a client with exactly this situation - you simply must get your passport as soon as possible. Without it, you can't do anything else.

If your visa has expired, you'd better be outside SA and apply there. If not, apply within SA.

It's a cut-and-dry logical situation.

(PS: No maximum of days for non-SA parent.)


----------



## SayansiScope

LegalMan said:


> Firstly, your children don't need or qualify for a Critical Skills Work Visa. So their visas carry a DHA fee of ZAR0 if Relative's Visas or ZAR425 if Study Visas.
> 
> *Secondly, you qualify for PR if you have 5 years experience in your Critical Skill.*


Hi LegalMan,

Can you please assist to clarify the bolded part in your reply above...
1:does one need to be in possession of a Critical Skills visa for a period of 5 years? 
2: does one need to be in possession of a Critical Skills visa at the time of application?
3: what if one was in possession of a visa under a different category but posses Critical Skills in a field of interest for 5 years and now want to change the existing conditions and apply for the PR based on Critical Skills?

My last question is unrelated to the above:
In the absence of a South African ID (lets say it is lost/misplaced etc..) can one produce a certified copy of South African Passport as a means of identification during the visa/permit application process?....

Regards,
Science...


----------



## LegalMan

Sciencescope said:


> Hi LegalMan,
> 
> Can you please assist to clarify the bolded part in your reply above...
> 1:does one need to be in possession of a Critical Skills visa for a period of 5 years?
> 2: does one need to be in possession of a Critical Skills visa at the time of application?
> 3: what if one was in possession of a visa under a different category but posses Critical Skills in a field of interest for 5 years and now want to change the existing conditions and apply for the PR based on Critical Skills?
> 
> My last question is unrelated to the above:
> In the absence of a South African ID (lets say it is lost/misplaced etc..) can one produce a certified copy of South African Passport as a means of identification during the visa/permit application process?....
> 
> Regards,
> Science...


Very good question and I'm so happy you came back to this. In fact you do not need 5 years experience for a Critical Skills Work Visa, something no-one was sure about at the time. You need proof that you have the critical skill. Home Affairs does often see this as having the skill for 5 years, but letters form professional bodies can also do the trick, for example.

The questions you write however seem to be to a post hidden deep in this thread. I assume they are about PR. For PR, you could apply under 27(b) of the Immigration Act and no requirement of 5 years exists there. Yes, you'll need to be in possession of a Temporary Visa for Critical Skills or possibly an old Exceptional Skills Permit.

Hope this helps.


----------



## SayansiScope

LegalMan said:


> Very good question and I'm so happy you came back to this. In fact you do not need 5 years experience for a Critical Skills Work Visa, something no-one was sure about at the time. You need proof that you have the critical skill. Home Affairs does often see this as having the skill for 5 years, but letters form professional bodies can also do the trick, for example.
> 
> The questions you write however seem to be to a post hidden deep in this thread. I assume they are about PR. For PR, you could apply under 27(b) of the Immigration Act and no requirement of 5 years exists there. Yes, you'll need to be in possession of a Temporary Visa for Critical Skills or possibly an old Exceptional Skills Permit.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks LegalMan,

However, you forgot to answer/clarify if it is possible for one to apply a permit/or visa using a South African passport in the absence of South African ID book... (e.g in the context of supporting documents required under Section 11(b) or Section 27(b), when a a spouse who is a SAC is required to provide his/her proof of support in the application of a non SAC.)

Cheers.


----------



## LegalMan

Sciencescope said:


> Thanks LegalMan,
> 
> However, you forgot to answer/clarify if it is possible for one to apply a permit/or visa using a South African passport in the absence of South African ID book... (e.g in the context of supporting documents required under Section 11(b) or Section 27(b), when a a spouse who is a SAC is required to provide his/her proof of support in the application of a non SAC.)
> 
> Cheers.


You're confusing me - "apply for a permit using a SA passport" (?) If you have a passport, you don't need a visa.


----------



## SayansiScope

LegalMan said:


> You're confusing me - "apply for a permit using a SA passport" (?) If you have a passport, you don't need a visa.


Wait,

A certified copy of SA ID book is often required as a supporting document in some instances particularly when you are a spouse of SAC. Now the question is: can a certified copy of SA passport be used in such circumstances in the absence of certified copy of SA ID book ....

Not too confusing is it?


----------



## LegalMan

Sciencescope said:


> Wait,
> 
> A certified copy of SA ID book is often required as a supporting document in some instances particularly when you are a spouse of SAC. Now the question is: can a certified copy of SA passport be used in such circumstances in the absence of certified copy of SA ID book ....
> 
> Not too confusing is it?


Aha!  Yes, it can, of course. The new ID card can even be used.


----------



## SayansiScope

LegalMan said:


> Aha!  Yes, it can, of course. The *new ID card* can even be used.


Okay, thanks...
Next time it will be drivers license...:rofl:


----------



## CptGuy

LegalMan or anyone really, I've been trying to find out if anything at all came out of the immigration act briefing at the end of September?

all I could find is Home Affairs gives reasons for visa changes - ParlyReportParlyReport

Which leads me to believe aside from the birth certificate reprieve the act looks set to stand in its current form?


----------



## LegalMan

*Discussion with Home Affairs in Parliament*



CptGuy said:


> LegalMan or anyone really, I've been trying to find out if anything at all came out of the immigration act briefing at the end of September?
> 
> all I could find is Home Affairs gives reasons for visa changes - ParlyReportParlyReport
> 
> Which leads me to believe aside from the birth certificate reprieve the act looks set to stand in its current form?


Correct, as of yet, nothing has been heard on our side.


----------



## CptGuy

LegalMan said:


> Correct, as of yet, nothing has been heard on our side.


Thanks LegalMan, in that case I'm faced with a somewhat problematic immigration scenario, would it be ok if I PM you for advice and if I'm crossing into the realm where I should be paying for your services you can just tell me?


----------



## LegalMan

CptGuy said:


> Thanks LegalMan, in that case I'm faced with a somewhat problematic immigration scenario, would it be ok if I PM you for advice and if I'm crossing into the realm where I should be paying for your services you can just tell me?


Of course, you may always PM me at any time and my email address is below.


----------



## Roisin1212

Dear LegalMan, 

If your current visa expired after you applied for a renewal and the renewal application is rejected. When you leave the country are you still classed as undesirable or do you have a certain time to leave legally?

Thank you


----------



## LegalMan

No, if you are not on any valid visa, you will be banned.


----------



## goodmrng1947

Hello legalman, 
I have received my SAqA evaluation report today. How do I now determine with which body should I register? I was under impression that it will be mentioned on report. I am planning to apply for critical skill visa under Bpo Catagory. Plz advise


----------



## LegalMan

goodmrng1947 said:


> Hello legalman,
> I have received my SAqA evaluation report today. How do I now determine with which body should I register? I was under impression that it will be mentioned on report. I am planning to apply for critical skill visa under Bpo Catagory. Plz advise


You must contact the professional bodies and ask. The BPO category is large - what exact skill? Have you even googled to try and find it? Try looking at SACCCOM.


----------



## Expat SA

Dear legalman,

I got my Retirement TR Permit; how do i apply for PR for myself and my family. My family includes my wife and a child.

I am planning to come to SA this month. Should I bring along my family too? Or should I first only come alone and apply for my PR?

For my PR application, will I be needing a police clearance certificate from SA? How much time will it take to get a police clearance certificate of SA?

Also, please advice me on what documents will I be needing to apply for me and my family's PR?

Thank you.


----------



## LegalMan

*Retirement Visa to Permanent Residence*

What is your situation?
- When did you get your Temporary Retirement Visa?
- How long is it valid for?
- Do you qualify for PR already? Do you know?
- How long have you been in South Africa and have you had other visas?



> I got my Retirement TR Permit; how do i apply for PR for myself and my family. My family includes my wife and a child.


For PR, you must already have a Temporary Visa of the same sort that you will qualify for PR. As questioned above, I don't know if you do qualify.



> I am planning to come to SA this month. Should I bring along my family too? Or should I first only come alone and apply for my PR?


Are you saying that you've never been to SA yet on this Retirement Visa? You can either bring them (after receiving the relevant visas for them) or not and can apply for PR, if you qualify, either in SA or abroad.



> For my PR application, will I be needing a police clearance certificate from SA? How much time will it take to get a police clearance certificate of SA?


Quite long (1 - 3 months). You need it if you've been in SA for over 12 months in total.



> Also, please advice me on what documents will I be needing to apply for me and my family's PR?


I can't tell you all the documents, but the actual visas depend on what each of them will be doing here. Probably an Accompanying Spouse Visa for your wife and Study Visas for your children? I'm assuming, of course.



> Thank you.


A pleasure.


----------



## Expat SA

LegalMan said:


> What is your situation?
> - When did you get your Temporary Retirement Visa?
> - How long is it valid for?
> - Do you qualify for PR already? Do you know?
> - How long have you been in South Africa and have you had other visas?
> 
> For PR, you must already have a Temporary Visa of the same sort that you will qualify for PR. As questioned above, I don't know if you do qualify.
> 
> Are you saying that you've never been to SA yet on this Retirement Visa? You can either bring them (after receiving the relevant visas for them) or not and can apply for PR, if you qualify, either in SA or abroad.
> 
> Quite long (1 - 3 months). You need it if you've been in SA for over 12 months in total.
> 
> I can't tell you all the documents, but the actual visas depend on what each of them will be doing here. Probably an Accompanying Spouse Visa for your wife and Study Visas for your children? I'm assuming, of course.
> 
> A pleasure.




I got my TR in July 2014, 
Valid for 2 years,
Yes i qualify; confirmed by my lawyer,
I hv been in SA for 8 months, rite now im out of SA; will be returning to SA to apply for PR. And i hv no other visas.

So u mean if I come to SA i dont need a poli e clearance for myself as i m not staying thr for more than 12 months?


----------



## Expat SA

LegalMan said:


> I can't tell you all the documents, but the actual visas depend on what each of them will be doing here. Probably an Accompanying Spouse Visa for your wife and Study Visas for your children? I'm assuming, of course.



My wife and child dont hv any sort of visas in/of SA. So, should i go to SA embassy in my country to get your above mentioned visas for my child and wife? Or i ll get these visas when i come to SA?

Please help me out in getting the whole process done. I havent got any clue.

Thank u very much.


----------



## Feastarr

Hi LegalMan, 

I have a section 11(2) visa which will be expiring on the 20th of this month. My visa mentions "not to change purpose/duration of visit". My agent however asserts that we can still apply for an extension of this visa for another 90 days. She mentions that the application will edit the conditions on the visa. 

The earliest I could get appointment for VFS is 20th of November which is the last day of my visa. 

Do you think that it could be in ANY way possible to be able to stay in the country after the 20th? Will they accept my application at all? 

I have booked air tickets for the 20th just in case. 

Thank you so much for all the great work.


----------



## LegalMan

Feastarr said:


> Hi LegalMan,
> 
> I have a section 11(2) visa which will be expiring on the 20th of this month. My visa mentions "not to change purpose/duration of visit". My agent however asserts that we can still apply for an extension of this visa for another 90 days. She mentions that the application will edit the conditions on the visa.
> 
> The earliest I could get appointment for VFS is 20th of November which is the last day of my visa.
> 
> Do you think that it could be in ANY way possible to be able to stay in the country after the 20th? Will they accept my application at all?
> 
> I have booked air tickets for the 20th just in case.
> 
> Thank you so much for all the great work.


First of all, even if you could apply today (10 Nov), you will never ever receive a result by the time your current visa expires and your current visa will expire and you have to leave the country anyway.

If your visa states this condition, it is extremely risky to try and apply for a new visa or even an extension. Whatever the law states (which is that you should be able to apply for an extension after all based on the visa type, but NOT unless you apply before 60 days remain on your visa), in reality this may not transpire. The DHA officer looking at your case may simply read your conditions and reject your matter immediately. And as my part in brackets above states, you are too late to apply for an extension anyhow.

Don't risk it. You're going home anyway. Apply from home. It's faster.


----------



## Bloemie

*Great thread! - Applying for a relative visa/TR for my wife*

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post but I must say thank you to everyone who has contributed and especially LegalMan for all your advises! I literally have been sitting here and read through all the pages in this thread!

So this is my situation, I'm from South Africa and currently in the UK with a company sponsored Tier 2 visa. I got married (in the UK) to my wife (who is Brazilian) in March 2014 and we have recently (today) been told that we will be relocated to South Africa as of 1st January 2015. This is a bit tight as it doesn't leave us with a lot of time to sort out visas for my wife. Luckily I've already registered our marriage with the embassy in April 2014!

I've visited the South African Embassy and, although the wait to ask a question was quite long, the lady who helped me was quite nice but did not really give me comfort that she believed what she was telling me - which brings me here! Okay, here are my questions:

1) Am I correct in saying that I'm applying for a Relative Visa which is essentially a Temporary Residency and that we can apply for Permanent Residency (once we've reached 5 years) or the ability to work (when she receives a job) within South Africa?

2) Medicals - Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate, Medical Reports and Radiology Report can be done at any hospital and clinic and not necessarily at an allocated location (I know we have allocated locations in South Africa)?

3) Due to the short time and the fact that I do not want to separate from my wife - assuming that I submit my application next week and her visa arrives in January, then could she fly to South Africa as a tourist and return to the UK once she's received the visa and obviously back to South Africa again?

4) I've been told that the turnaround time for the visa is 6 weeks. Is there an offer of a faster service (I'm assuming at a higher cost)?

5) Police Clearance since the age of 18 requirement - She was about 25 when moving to the UK, does this mean that she would have to get police clearance both from the UK authorities (which we have as a requirement of her stay here) and from Brazil (which would mean that she would have to fly back home to get it or could we get it from the Brazilian embassy?)

Thank you very much in advance for your responses. I really hope to not get separated from my wife because of this turnaround time of this process. I look forward to hearing from you all.


----------



## saffalass

You should probably start a new thread for this one, as it won't clog up this feed and is more likely to get you more responses, but here is some of advice to get you started.

1. Yes, you are applying for a relative's visa - and yes, you can apply to change conditions once she gets a job.

2. Have just done this, your GP will do the check up (just make you sure have the forms required by Home Affairs to sign) and then refer you to a hospital for an Xray. You only need Yellow Fever Vac if traveling from an area of risk. Sometimes the wait for Xrays and GP check ups take a long time, depending on where you go, they like to be thorough. You'll have to pay a fee as it's considered a private treatment.

3. Not quite sure on this one, but yes, technically that should be possible. 

4. There's no faster service like for the UK visas.

5. She needs it for all countries she lived in since she was 18, yes. Not sure how to go about getting it from Brazil, but UK is pretty straight forward.


----------



## LegalMan

*SA Relative's Visa done in the UK*

Generally this is correct, but check edits:



saffalass said:


> You should probably start a new thread for this one, as it won't clog up this feed and is more likely to get you more responses, but here is some of advice to get you started.
> 
> 1. Yes, you are applying for a relative's visa - and yes, you can apply to change conditions once she gets a job.
> 
> 2. Have just done this, your GP will do the check up (just make you sure have the forms required by Home Affairs to sign) and then refer you to a hospital for an Xray. You only need Yellow Fever Vac if traveling from an area of risk. Sometimes the wait for Xrays and GP check ups take a long time, depending on where you go, they like to be thorough. You'll have to pay a fee as it's considered a private treatment.
> 
> 3. Not quite sure on this one, but yes, technically that should be possible.
> 
> 4. There's no faster service like for the UK visas.
> 
> 5. She needs it for all countries she lived in since she was 18, yes. Not sure how to go about getting it from Brazil, but UK is pretty straight forward.


Actually you are not applying for anything, your wife is.

1- Yes, Relative's Visa. Yes, once she has a work contract she can apply for an endorsement. Make sure to get a bank account BEFORE this happens as her visa type will change to a type of Visitor's and banks won't help her.

2- Do your medicals anywhere. SA has no "allocated" places at all.

3- Yes.

4- No faster service for SA visas done in the UK (not UK visas).

5- Yes, Brazil too. All countries lived in for longer than 12 months since 18.

When we do this sort of thing, we get the result before 1 Jan. Why? Because we ask.

Rule number one in life: If you don't ask, you don't get.


----------



## yojimbo

[- Yes, Relative's Visa. Yes, once she has a work contract she can apply for an endorsement. Make sure to get a bank account BEFORE this happens as her visa type will change to a type of Visitor's and banks won't help her.

They will issue a Visitor visa anyway as by definition, at least in London. There is no facility to specify or request any other type while applying. They take papers, give you a date, you come, wait in a line, get to the window, get a sticker in the passport - out. At no time type of visa discussed. You apply for a TR and get what you get. Mine says: Visitor visa, multi-entry, valid 36 month, to accompany spouse Name SA id number. Return ticket waived. No mentioning of employment etc. Presumably on the first entry they will put a stamp about it over???


----------



## Jack14

yojimbo said:


> [- Yes, Relative's Visa. Yes, once she has a work contract she can apply for an endorsement. Make sure to get a bank account BEFORE this happens as her visa type will change to a type of Visitor's and banks won't help her.
> 
> They will issue a Visitor visa anyway as by definition, at least in London. There is no facility to specify or request any other type while applying. They take papers, give you a date, you come, wait in a line, get to the window, get a sticker in the passport - out. At no time type of visa discussed. You apply for a TR and get what you get. Mine says: Visitor visa, multi-entry, valid 36 month, to accompany spouse Name SA id number. Return ticket waived. No mentioning of employment etc. Presumably on the first entry they will put a stamp about it over???


I really dont understand this people, how can they give you a Visitor Visa, you are a spouse to a South African citizen, they should have given you a relative visa and not a visitor visa

The visitor visa is given to spouses and children of foreign workers in SA


----------



## yojimbo

"The visitor visa is given to spouses and children of foreign workers in SA"

My humble understanding is that they trying to streamline different visas into PR and Visitor visa (ie TR) with exact circumstances printed in. Makes sense since I cant understand a difference anyway. Neither is them. What is a difference on a practical level? I'm still await a PR throught and TR (Visitor visa) is only meant to get me by until then. Mind you, they still manage to put a wrong initial on my wife's name on a visa with correct surname and id number. I spot it sadly too late at home and thinking now should I start to worry and trying to correct it or not. Will it make a difference?


----------



## LegalMan

yojimbo said:


> "The visitor visa is given to spouses and children of foreign workers in SA"
> 
> My humble understanding is that they trying to streamline different visas into PR and Visitor visa (ie TR) with exact circumstances printed in. Makes sense since I cant understand a difference anyway. Neither is them. What is a difference on a practical level? I'm still await a PR throught and TR (Visitor visa) is only meant to get me by until then. Mind you, they still manage to put a wrong initial on my wife's name on a visa with correct surname and id number. I spot it sadly too late at home and thinking now should I start to worry and trying to correct it or not. Will it make a difference?


I'm sorry, but we have many people who have correctly, according to the Immigration Act, received Relative's Visas and not Visitor's Visas. They only become Visitor's Visas if an endorsement is used.


----------



## yojimbo

LegalMan said:


> I'm sorry, but we have many people who have correctly, according to the Immigration Act, received Relative's Visas and not Visitor's Visas. They only become Visitor's Visas if an endorsement is used.


Ok. As they told me application from within SA an in Consulate abroad processed completely differently. My understanding that Consulates deal with TR themselves and thats why all visas done in a few weeks as oppose to months in SA. PR is an exception but still goes different way to the ones submitted in SA. My real question is on more practical level. What is a difference apart from the label on the sticker? Is it worth to try to get another one while I got time to do it? I can't be too concern if they call it a Mickey Mouse visa as long as it gives me same rights and opportunities on daily base. Consulate staff not exactly most clued up or approachable.


----------



## LegalMan

yojimbo said:


> Ok. As they told me application from within SA an in Consulate abroad processed completely differently. My understanding that Consulates deal with TR themselves and thats why all visas done in a few weeks as oppose to months in SA. PR is an exception but still goes different way to the ones submitted in SA. My real question is on more practical level. What is a difference apart from the label on the sticker? Is it worth to try to get another one while I got time to do it? I can't be too concern if they call it a Mickey Mouse visa as long as it gives me same rights and opportunities on daily base. Consulate staff not exactly most clued up or approachable.


No, there will be no difference except that you cannot change from a Visitor's Visa while in SA and also struggle with services such as banks.


----------



## Nomqhele

LegalMan said:


> No, there will be no difference except that you cannot change from a Visitor's Visa while in SA and also struggle with services such as banks.


Hi LegalMan

I have a section 11(6) visitors visa which is valid for 36 months,are you saying l cannot change from this visa to another

Thanks

Nomqhele


----------



## Nomqhele

LegalMan said:


> No, there will be no difference except that you cannot change from a Visitor's Visa while in SA and also struggle with services such as banks.


Hi LegalMan

I have a section 11(6)visitors visa which is valid for 36 months and has conditions stating that l must reside with my RSA citizen spouse ID number ********while conducting work for company so and so.Are you saying with this type of visa l cannot change to another type of visa

Thanks for clarifying this

Nomqhele


----------



## yojimbo

Nomqhele said:


> Hi LegalMan
> 
> Are you saying with this type of visa l cannot change to another type of visa
> 
> Thanks for clarifying this
> 
> Nomqhele


I guess that I do not understand something vital here. Why it is important to be able to change type of visa later ( I thought that they do not permit it anymore )? If you got a 36 month (maximum for all TR visas?) visitor visa which by all counts pretty much the same rights as the other ( ie no work permit etc), why it is important to change? Change to what and for what reason? My understanding is that PR application is completely separate process and type of visa you got at the moment will not affect it in any way. And when necessary, we still will have to apply for new TR on SAME grounds as everyone else afresh. Do I miss something and there some unpleasant restrictions hidden somewhere?


----------



## saffalass

People might want to add a business endorsement or a work endorsement to their TR relative's visa once they get to South Africa.


----------



## yojimbo

saffalass said:


> People might want to add a business endorsement or a work endorsement to their TR relative's visa once they get to South Africa.


Does that mean that I can't add a work/business endorsement to Visitors visa later on?


----------



## saffalass

That's exactly what we're all trying to find out...


----------



## Jack14

saffalass said:


> That's exactly what we're all trying to find out...


You guys were given the wrong visa in the first place 

The visitor visa you got is normally given to family members of foreign workers, students etc

They should have given you a relative Visa (spousal or Life partner visa) 

Only spusal and life partner visa can be endorse


----------



## yojimbo

Jack14 said:


> You guys were given the wrong visa in the first place
> 
> The visitor visa you got is normally given to family members of foreign workers, students etc
> 
> They should have given you a relative Visa (spousal or Life partner visa)
> 
> Only spusal and life partner visa can be endorse


My sticker says: Visitor visa. Conditions: to accompany SAC spouse XXXXX.XX ID NO xxxxxxxxx for period of 36 month. Multiple entries.
It actually specify a south african citizen spouse as condition. I took it as a relative version then. May be I'm wrong and some joker in HA decide to screw me quietly. Worst of all that I'm not even sure that I can or should complain and demand a different sticker. They always can make our life difficult and I can lose even existing visa but not get anything in return.
Now I'm properly confused. I wish PR could come rather sooner than later to stop this headache of reading between the lines.


----------



## Jack14

yojimbo said:


> My sticker says: Visitor visa. Conditions: to accompany SAC spouse XXXXX.XX ID NO xxxxxxxxx for period of 36 month. Multiple entries.
> It actually specify a south african citizen spouse as condition. I took it as a relative version then. May be I'm wrong and some joker in HA decide to screw me quietly. Worst of all that I'm not even sure that I can or should complain and demand a different sticker. They always can make our life difficult and I can lose even existing visa but not get anything in return.
> Now I'm properly confused. I wish PR could come rather sooner than later to stop this headache of reading between the lines.


Maybe you ticked Visitor Visa on your application form or HA screw you

You can not even open a personal bank account with that visa


----------



## yojimbo

Jack14 said:


> Maybe you ticked Visitor Visa on your application form or HA screw you
> 
> You can not even open a personal bank account with that visa


I most definitely ticked a relative box on a TR application form. There simply no other suitable boxes for spouses to tick. The rest is in HA hands as I can't influence outcome. They clearly know that my wife is a SA national as they put it in writing in conditions of visa. Is there a list of what I can and can't do with my visa? Apart from bank account? I actually a few years back while on holidays there, pop in the local bank branch and in 5 minutes open a current ZAR account with British passport as non-resident and UK home address. No question asked. Funnily, my wife with SA passport in her hand was refused account as paperwork was much more complicate.You should see her face.


----------



## LegalMan

yojimbo said:


> My sticker says: Visitor visa. Conditions: to accompany SAC spouse XXXXX.XX ID NO xxxxxxxxx for period of 36 month. Multiple entries.
> It actually specify a south african citizen spouse as condition. I took it as a relative version then. May be I'm wrong and some joker in HA decide to screw me quietly. Worst of all that I'm not even sure that I can or should complain and demand a different sticker. They always can make our life difficult and I can lose even existing visa but not get anything in return.
> Now I'm properly confused. I wish PR could come rather sooner than later to stop this headache of reading between the lines.


You have whats is commonly called an Accompanying Spouse Visa, intended for those whose spouse is not South African. Usually these are issued for the spouse of someone coming to work in SA.

You usually cannot change this type while in SA and cannot get endorsements on it.

Is your spouse South African? If yes, then you got the wrong type of visa. If no, then this is all correct and your only right to be in SA is that s/he is there too.


----------



## LegalMan

Nomqhele said:


> Hi LegalMan
> 
> I have a section 11(6)visitors visa which is valid for 36 months and has conditions stating that l must reside with my RSA citizen spouse ID number ********while conducting work for company so and so.Are you saying with this type of visa l cannot change to another type of visa
> 
> Thanks for clarifying this
> 
> Nomqhele


You can change from within SA.


----------



## Nomqhele

LegalMan said:


> You can change from within SA.


Hi LegalMan

My spouse is a SouthAfrican citizen by birth-so does this mean l was allocated a wrong type of a visa

Thanks

Nomqhele


----------



## yojimbo

LegalMan said:


> You have whats is commonly called an Accompanying Spouse Visa, intended for those whose spouse is not South African. Usually these are issued for the spouse of someone coming to work in SA.
> 
> You usually cannot change this type while in SA and cannot get endorsements on it.
> 
> Is your spouse South African? If yes, then you got the wrong type of visa. If no, then this is all correct and your only right to be in SA is that s/he is there too.


Hi LegalMan, my wife is most definitely born and bred South African and they themselves put it on the visa. SAC (south african citizen spouse XXX.XXX id XXXX). How is that different from :
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomqhele View Post
Hi LegalMan

I have a section 11(6)visitors visa which is valid for 36 months and has conditions stating that l must reside with my RSA citizen spouse ID number ********while conducting work for company so and so.Are you saying with this type of visa l cannot change to another type of visa

Thanks for clarifying this

Nomqhele
You can change from within SA."


----------



## Bloemie

*Thanks for help!*

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all the replies! I didn't think that I'd get so many replies - especially over a weekend!! Thank you for all the support, I will definitely let you know the outcome of our application process.

So far we've made all the necessary bookings for the respective medicals today and tomorrow and going to submit the application on Wednesday, Thursday latest! I will definitely make the request to get the visa earlier due to my company flying me on such a weird date! (31 December - NYE on a plane?)

I will let you all know how the process goes and hopefully provide any useful advises to any expats here in London!

Happy to return the favor and help out where I can!


----------



## LegalMan

yojimbo said:


> Hi LegalMan, my wife is most definitely born and bred South African and they themselves put it on the visa. SAC (south african citizen spouse XXX.XXX id XXXX). How is that different from :
> "Quote:
> Originally Posted by Nomqhele View Post
> Hi LegalMan
> 
> I have a section 11(6)visitors visa which is valid for 36 months and has conditions stating that l must reside with my RSA citizen spouse ID number ********while conducting work for company so and so.Are you saying with this type of visa l cannot change to another type of visa
> 
> Thanks for clarifying this
> 
> Nomqhele
> You can change from within SA."


Yojimbo - you have a Visitor's Visa to accompany only. Nomqhele has a Visitor's Visa to accompany and work. You should have a visa with the heading clearly: Relative's Visa.

You should definitely report this to the SAHC.


----------



## yojimbo

LegalMan said:


> Yojimbo - you have a Visitor's Visa to accompany only. Nomqhele has a Visitor's Visa to accompany and work. You should have a visa with the heading clearly: Relative's Visa.
> 
> You should definitely report this to the SAHC.


Thank you LegalMan,
You mean consulate? Do you mean that I should go there and tell them that I got a wrong visa and request a new one? Will it require to go through all the application process again and new waiting time or they can simply reprint sticker and put it over?


----------



## LegalMan

*Visa rectification*



yojimbo said:


> Thank you LegalMan,
> You mean consulate? Do you mean that I should go there and tell them that I got a wrong visa and request a new one? Will it require to go through all the application process again and new waiting time or they can simply reprint sticker and put it over?


You can get a rectification done - contact the SAHC. Do this ASAFP. (Russian humour.)

I'm not sure what exact procedure they will offer you, but they must correct this error. Usually they give this visa when you have an endorsement.

A further note: I must admit without seeing this visa, I'm not entirely sure that you can't change it in SA. Perhaps you can.


----------



## Bloemie

*UK: Medical, translators and name changing*

Hi Everyone,

If I could ask for some advise - so I'm currently preparing documentation towards my wife's application for her South African relative visa as mentioned previously. We've made some great progress so far (gotten all the medicals done except the medical report - might have to resort to a walk in centre).

1) Would it be okay to get the medical report filled out by an NHS nurse as opposed to a GP or a private doctor? The cost is from £80 to £120 which is what I'm hoping to save if possible.

2) My wife is Brazilian and her police clearance from Brazil came through but it's obviously in Portuguese, is that okay or would I have to get that translated? If translated then is there a specific translator that we have to use? Any recommendations from anyone?

3) Finally, I know this might seem lazy of us but my wife hasn't changed her surname yet. We are planning on doing that once we are in South Africa. Would this have any implications on her visa once she is in South Africa? I'm assuming that she will need another passport with the new name... Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

Thank you in advance once again for all of your help!


----------



## LegalMan

*Relative Visa for South Africa*



Bloemie said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> If I could ask for some advise - so I'm currently preparing documentation towards my wife's application for her South African relative visa as mentioned previously. We've made some great progress so far (gotten all the medicals done except the medical report - might have to resort to a walk in centre).
> 
> 1) Would it be okay to get the medical report filled out by an NHS nurse as opposed to a GP or a private doctor? The cost is from £80 to £120 which is what I'm hoping to save if possible.
> 
> 2) My wife is Brazilian and her police clearance from Brazil came through but it's obviously in Portuguese, is that okay or would I have to get that translated? If translated then is there a specific translator that we have to use? Any recommendations from anyone?
> 
> 3) Finally, I know this might seem lazy of us but my wife hasn't changed her surname yet. We are planning on doing that once we are in South Africa. Would this have any implications on her visa once she is in South Africa? I'm assuming that she will need another passport with the new name... Any thoughts or suggestions on this?
> 
> Thank you in advance once again for all of your help!


1. It would need to be a doctor.
2. No country's Home Affairs speaks every language. Only English is acceptable.
3. No problem, provided that all the proof is there that you are married.


----------



## rkhalid

@Legal Man

I am electronic engineer and currently residing in KSA while I have quite a few relatives In SA

1.Which immigration category I may apply for immigration? ( Relative/Skilled )

2.Where should I start from

3.Whats the estimated procedure timeline


----------



## LegalMan

*Which visa to South Africa?*



rkhalid said:


> @Legal Man
> 
> I am electronic engineer and currently residing in KSA while I have quite a few relatives In SA
> 
> 1.Which immigration category I may apply for immigration? ( Relative/Skilled )
> 
> 2.Where should I start from
> 
> 3.Whats the estimated procedure timeline


This depends on the relatives - are they within one degree of kinship? (This means son/daughter/mother/father. If not, and even if yes, a Relative's Visa may not be possible and will in any event not allow you to work.

Being an Electronic Engineer, have a look at a Critical Skills Work Visa. This allows you to work, change your employer easily and also apply for Permanent Residency.

Let me know if this solves your query.


----------



## rkhalid

well I have aunt and cousins who are African residents 

what else is the way then to apply for immigration, like incase of Aus one goes through IELTS and then qualifies for skilled independent visa

Isn't such type of way available for SA immigration


----------



## LegalMan

rkhalid said:


> well I have aunt and cousins who are African residents
> 
> what else is the way then to apply for immigration, like incase of Aus one goes through IELTS and then qualifies for skilled independent visa
> 
> Isn't such type of way available for SA immigration


Hi rkhalid

No, in South Africa there is no such language test. Read on the link that I sent you. It's all explained there.

Aunts and cousins will not qualify you for anything.


----------



## rkhalid

Have gone through link and both me and my husband falls in categories of Electronic and Civil Engineering

whats the process now


----------



## LegalMan

rkhalid said:


> Have gone through link and both me and my husband falls in categories of Electronic and Civil Engineering
> 
> whats the process now


Now you prepare an application (by yourself or with help) and submit it at an embassy like any other visa for any other country.


----------



## Bloemie

*Information on police clearance!!!*

Dear All,

First of all, thank you very much once again to everyone who's been extremely helpful providing information on such a daunting uncertain process such as visas!

So I was at the visa office today with my wife applying for her relative visa as I am South African and we are married. Today was also the day that we were rejected and told to come back when we've got the "correct" documentation.

So I was told today, that in some countries, the normal police clearance documentation is not accepted. In Brazil, the norm is that the police clearance is usually obtained online after entering your local ID number on their database and returning a document which states what your criminal record looks like.

We were also told that if we were to submit the application today, that we would receive our visa on the 30th December 2014. From tomorrow, it will go into January (my company is flying us out on the 31st December 2014).

After going to the Brazilian consulate, they said that we would have to wait 5 working days for them to write up another form.

At this moment in time, I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do at this point as I don't really have much choice. Options such as my wife going back to Brazil and applying there and waiting until she receives the visa before entering South Africa is running in my mind (however, extremely not ideal!)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! For everyone else, if you are getting a police clearance online, it is NOT okay to do the same for the South African embassy!

I will continue to give updates on our application process...


----------



## angluna89

Hi Bloemie, 

I am from Ecuador and we also get our police clearance from the internet. When I submited this form it needed to have an apostille from the government, I think the embassy may be able to do that. The apostille was enough. Good luck


----------



## Bloemie

*Thanks for all your support!*

@Angluna89 - Thanks, my wife did exactly that. The embassy mentioned that an application needs to be filled out (obtained at the embassy or online) and posted to an address and they will return the police certificate with the official stamps etc.

Unfortunately, if you've read all my posts, you may already know that we are on a very tight deadline given to me by my company. So what we did was write a letter and attached it to the application saying that we have already applied for the police certificate to be officially stamped and will submit it as soon as we have received it.

To keep everyone informed, my wife and I have successfully submitted her application for a relative visa. However, due her not having the physical copy of the police certificate and just a letter of intent of submission, we were told that they would continue with the process of the visa and that if we did not hand in the police certificate that she would be deported (I think that's fair).

After accepting the application and asking for all the documentation (more than what was mentioned on the website!), they gave us a date, 5th January 2015, for collection of the visa and reminded us to submit the physical police certificate once we've received it.

I'm still slightly worried because they were reluctant to take in the application because the physical police certificate was not there but my wife is more calm saying that they've already given us a collection date which means everything is fine, she just needs to submit the police certificate making our application complete. Thoughts?

For everyone else's reference, when applying for a relative visa (spousal), remember to also have copies of the following documentation (not mentioned on the website):
1) Copy of South African Passport/ID
2) Copy of UK Visa for both parties
3) Proof of registration of marriage (if not married in South Africa)
4) Not asked but happily accepted - bank statements both in the UK and SA

Good luck to everyone else who is attempting to submit an application to go to South Africa!

Planning to make another post after my wife's received her visa


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## Bloemie

*Tracking Availability?*

Dear Users,

Does anyone know of a way to track your visa application?

I've recently spoken to a friend who mentioned that she had applied for two visas, one for herself and another for her child a little later (due to the lack of documentation).

However, when she picked up her visa, she asked if her child's visa was ready yet (taking a chance) and it was! I find this interesting (and not surprised) because we were asked to write our email addresses at the bottom of the application and it was said that we would be notified once the visa was ready for collection - even though after we submitted, we got a collection date...

Any thoughts there?


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## saffalass

Bloemie said:


> Dear Users,
> 
> Does anyone know of a way to track your visa application?
> 
> I've recently spoken to a friend who mentioned that she had applied for two visas, one for herself and another for her child a little later (due to the lack of documentation).
> 
> However, when she picked up her visa, she asked if her child's visa was ready yet (taking a chance) and it was! I find this interesting (and not surprised) because we were asked to write our email addresses at the bottom of the application and it was said that we would be notified once the visa was ready for collection - even though after we submitted, we got a collection date...
> 
> Any thoughts there?


Track from where? Track from VFS? You would have been given a tracking number from there. Track from the UK? No.


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## Bloemie

saffalass said:


> Track from where? Track from VFS? You would have been given a tracking number from there. Track from the UK? No.


Ah okay... Yes, Tracking from the UK so no... Alright 

Thanks for the super prompt response!


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## goodmrng1947

Hello LegalMan,

I have applied for IITPSA registration few days back, and i believe my next step is to apply for Critical Skill Visa. Quick question for you please, what documents are asked in critical visa application part E & F, as it is mentioned on DHA website. It only gives the name of the Visa Application Form, and says submit the documents as per part E & F. Can you shade some light on this?


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## LegalMan

goodmrng1947 said:


> Hello LegalMan,
> 
> I have applied for IITPSA registration few days back, and i believe my next step is to apply for Critical Skill Visa. Quick question for you please, what documents are asked in critical visa application part E & F, as it is mentioned on DHA website. It only gives the name of the Visa Application Form, and says submit the documents as per part E & F. Can you shade some light on this?


My standard response here is that we do not provide lists of documents. Firstly, the lists are on the DHA website. Secondly, every single application we do includes different documents for the specific situation of that applicant.

The DHA has stressed that forms must be obtained from VFS or from them directly. Some places still accept downloaded forms.


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## goodmrng1947

Thanks so much, I Will try to find it from VFS


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## LegalMan

goodmrng1947 said:


> Thanks so much, I Will try to find it from VFS


Here you go:

DHA Visa Information - South Africa - Services - Temporary Residence Permit - Critical Skills Visa

Click on Documents Required.

Good luck!


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## shail12

*Scond Intra Company Transfer*

Hello,

I applied for the second ICT (from Mumbai) based on the new regulations. I applied it on 27 Nov 2014. As of now the status on DHA website says “Code = 104 : Processing at Head Office”.
What would be possible processing time. I am in assumption that as it is second ICT, it should be quicker and should not take more than 1 month in the round trip.

The thing is, I will have to apply for Study permit for my kid once my visa is done. The identified school will start by 15 Jan. I know that there will be some study loss but how much it could be.


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## goodmrng1947

shail12 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I applied for the second ICT (from Mumbai) based on the new regulations. I applied it on 27 Nov 2014. As of now the status on DHA website says &#147;Code = 104 : Processing at Head Office&#148;.
> What would be possible processing time. I am in assumption that as it is second ICT, it should be quicker and should not take more than 1 month in the round trip.
> 
> The thing is, I will have to apply for Study permit for my kid once my visa is done. The identified school will start by 15 Jan. I know that there will be some study loss but how much it could be.


Hi, have you already got the job offer? How do you intend to apply for study visa without your visa?


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## confuzzled

Hi all

I am hoping someone can point us in the right direction 

My girlfriend who is a Thai national and I would like to apply for the life partner permit however we have not been cohabiting for the 2 years as stipulated by the regulations.

My question is on what visa would she need to be able to live here with me to be able to qualify for the 2 year period?

Would it be on a visitors visa which we will need to extend every 90 days till the 2 years are reached?

Apologies if this a dumb question .... these new rule changes are sooooo confusing


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## LegalMan

confuzzled said:


> Hi all
> 
> I am hoping someone can point us in the right direction
> 
> My girlfriend who is a Thai national and I would like to apply for the life partner permit however we have not been cohabiting for the 2 years as stipulated by the regulations.
> 
> My question is on what visa would she need to be able to live here with me to be able to qualify for the 2 year period?
> 
> Would it be on a visitors visa which we will need to extend every 90 days till the 2 years are reached?
> 
> Apologies if this a dumb question .... these new rule changes are sooooo confusing


Without cohabitation you have a slim chance. Any visa which allows her to stay in South Africa for that period of time will do. Work visas, Study visas, etc, etc. Not a Visitor's Visa unless it is a Long-Stay Visitor's Visa.


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## confuzzled

LegalMan said:


> Without cohabitation you have a slim chance. Any visa which allows her to stay in South Africa for that period of time will do. Work visas, Study visas, etc, etc. Not a Visitor's Visa unless it is a Long-Stay Visitor's Visa.


Hi LegalMan

Awesome! Thank you so much for your prompt advice!

Where would she need to apply for a long stay visitor's visa and what are the requirements we would need to get one?

You can PM me if that's easier 

Thank you kind sir!


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## confuzzled

Been googling .... is a long stay visitor's visa the same as a temporary residence permit?
and is the form the temporary resident application Form BI-1738?

and I am correct in saying she needs to apply for this in her own country?

Thanks for all your assistance!


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## Fynbos

Hi Confuzzled,

SA immigration policy now only uses the word "permit" to refer to permanent residency applications, but yes, previously a long stay visitor's visa would be referred to as a temporary residence permit. The long stay visitor's visa still uses the Form BI-1738 (should you be outside of SA). If she is in RSA now, what visa is she currently on? Depending on this, it may be possible to apply on the VFS website.


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## confuzzled

Fynbos said:


> Hi Confuzzled,
> 
> SA immigration policy now only uses the word "permit" to refer to permanent residency applications, but yes, previously a long stay visitor's visa would be referred to as a temporary residence permit. The long stay visitor's visa still uses the Form BI-1738 (should you be outside of SA). If she is in RSA now, what visa is she currently on? Depending on this, it may be possible to apply on the VFS website.


Thank you thank you Fynbos!
She is back in Thailand now as her visitor's visa had expired.
So I need to tell her to go to the SA embassy and get the BI-1738 form and fill it out.

Awesome! you've made our day


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## LegalMan

FYI for those who are applying for Critical Skills Work Visas under "banking" and registering with the Institute of Bankers:

Requirements from Applicants wishing to obtain a critical skills letter | Institute of Bankers South Africa


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## goodmrng1947

Hello LegalMan, 
I have applied for IITPSA membership and awaiting confirmation from them. Meanwhile I am asked to pay R3420 for skills assessment. My confusion is; should I just make the payment and get the skills assessed? Or wait for membership committee to reply. Because my understanding is while applying for Visa, I would need both my membership number and skills assessment report. What if I get my skills assessed and don't have membership number?
Please help and clarify. Thanks
HD


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## LegalMan

Hi Goodmrng1947, 

Am I correct in saying that the ITTPSA is requesting a payment of R3420 to assess your skills? 
If so, you should certainly proceed, because without the confirmation of critical skills from the ITTPSA, being a member of the ITTPSA is not useful in the application process. 
It is my understanding that you would need the skills assessment prior to them offering you a membership number anyway. 

This is my experience. Good luck!


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## LegalMan

*SA Embassy in Thailand*



confuzzled said:


> Thank you thank you Fynbos!
> She is back in Thailand now as her visitor's visa had expired.
> So I need to tell her to go to the SA embassy and get the BI-1738 form and fill it out.
> 
> Awesome! you've made our day



Hi Confuzzled, 

Just make sure you have all the necessary documents when apply for a long stay visitor's visa, as this application is more difficult than just an ordinary visitor's visa. Like most SA Embassies abroad, the SA Embassy in Thailand may not know exactly what type of long stay visitor's visa your friend qualifies under. 

Just let me know if you have any further questions.


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## goodmrng1947

LegalMan said:


> Hi Goodmrng1947,
> 
> Am I correct in saying that the ITTPSA is requesting a payment of R3420 to assess your skills?
> If so, you should certainly proceed, because without the confirmation of critical skills from the ITTPSA, being a member of the ITTPSA is not useful in the application process.
> It is my understanding that you would need the skills assessment prior to them offering you a membership number anyway.
> 
> This is my experience. Good luck!


Yes you got it right sir, Thank you for answering my question. I just hope they don't give any negative reply to my assessment.


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## LegalMan

Hi Goodmrng1947, 

Let me know the outcome when you receive it.


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## liz1liz

I need some help please. Sorry I am new to expatforum not sure how to send messages or reach the right people so my sincere apologies if I'm doing it wrong.

I am seeking advise from Saartjie and/or Legalman not sure how to do that. (I can not send personal messages).

i am a SA citizen but have not lived there for 10 years (I believe the immigration laws recently changed). My husband (Mauritian) and I plan to move to SA by the end of the year. 
We will receive his TR permit next week (been married for 6 years), now we need to apply for his PR once in SA. I just want to know if anyone has gone through the process recently? Any trick questions in the interview? What exactly is the declaration of support? Can we do it ourselves or do we need an immigration agent? We also have a 6 month old baby born in Mauritius (should receive his SA birth certificate in the next 2-3 weeks and will apply for his SA pasport once in SA)


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## pmtray

Hi, 
I am looking help with a visa for myself and family. I am looking to start a business in SA Oct/Nov this year and it will require investment form me but I am confused about which visa I should apply for. Should I apply for a business visa even though I will not be working in it or retirement visa (although I'm only 34 + I want to work) and then apply for a study visa for my kids. 

A little bit about myself. 
I am from Ireland with both a UK and Irish passport, I am looking to start a business in SA which will require R1M investment from me. I will be a 60-65% shareholder in the company with 2 others being SA residents (from SA) we will employ another 3+ people in the company. I currently have a 10% equity stake in a business in SA (Durban) which employs over 130 South Africans and I receive dividends from. 

I am looking to relocate from UK/Ireland at the end of 2016 with my family, my wife of 7 years and 3 children, aged 16, 5 and 2, how difficult will this be for me or what is my best way of jumping through hoops to get there.

Also what is the position of taking money to and from SA!? 

thank you for your help.


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## MUTOMBA

*Prp*

Good day All
Anyone out there who can help please?
I applied for a Permanent Residence Permit in December 2013 for my self and my family. I got a response in March 2014 that application had been rejected because I needed to submit more documents i.e publication, CV and testimonial. I submitted the documents on appeal on 8 April 2014 and up to now I have not received any communication from Home Affairs regarding the status of my application/appeal. How long does this process take and is there anywhere I can go to get updates. I have tried calling the Call Centre but they say they no-longer have access to applications. If you can help please, I would appreciate it


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## Kayla123

You can try this website, that was how I tracked mine.

DHA Visa Information - South Africa - Track Your Application

I hope you come right.


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## LegalMan

MUTOMBA said:


> Good day All
> Anyone out there who can help please?
> I applied for a Permanent Residence Permit in December 2013 for my self and my family. I got a response in March 2014 that application had been rejected because I needed to submit more documents i.e publication, CV and testimonial. I submitted the documents on appeal on 8 April 2014 and up to now I have not received any communication from Home Affairs regarding the status of my application/appeal. How long does this process take and is there anywhere I can go to get updates. I have tried calling the Call Centre but they say they no-longer have access to applications. If you can help please, I would appreciate it


You can try this: https://www.immigrationsouthafrica.org/blog/how-to-speed-up-your-sa-visa-or-permit/.


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## aggelos1986

Hi everyone, I am married with a SA citizen and my visa says "work prohibited" and "no extension". I know that since I have a job offer I can apply for a work permit but with the "no extension" probably they will deny my application. Do you know what can I do? I have read some people went to the court because is against the Law to not provide me with the right to work.
Thanks.


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## LegalMan

aggelos1986 said:


> Hi everyone, I am married with a SA citizen and my visa says "work prohibited" and "no extension". I know that since I have a job offer I can apply for a work permit but with the "no extension" probably they will deny my application. Do you know what can I do? I have read some people went to the court because is against the Law to not provide me with the right to work.
> Thanks.


You've misunderstood things and also use the wrong terminology.

A straight relatives visa does not allow one to work, end of story.

You can apply for a work visa, but being in a permanent (in your case spousal) relationship with an SA citizen waives your need to prove the criteria for a work visa.

Thus, you can apply for what's nicknamed a "work endorsement" on your current relatives visa. The contract of employment will be good enough.

I'm confused as to why you cannot have an extension - do they expect you to not be married in future? How long is it valid for?


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## aggelos1986

Thanks for the info. 
I'm also confused by the "no extension". My visa is valid for 2 years. 
.
Another question: once I secure a work endorsement (using an employment contract) am I allowed to start a part time business on the side? Or would a separate endorsement be required for this? @






LegalMan said:


> You've misunderstood things and also use the wrong terminology.
> 
> A straight relatives visa does not allow one to work, end of story.
> 
> You can apply for a work visa, but being in a permanent (in your case spousal) relationship with an SA citizen waives your need to prove the criteria for a work visa.
> 
> Thus, you can apply for what's nicknamed a "work endorsement" on your current relatives visa. The contract of employment will be good enough.
> 
> I'm confused as to why you cannot have an extension - do they expect you to not be married in future? How long is it valid for?


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## LegalMan

aggelos1986 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I'm also confused by the "no extension". My visa is valid for 2 years.
> .
> Another question: once I secure a work endorsement (using an employment contract) am I allowed to start a part time business on the side? Or would a separate endorsement be required for this? @


A visa can be endorsed with many things. You would apply for that. It also depends what work you will do in that business. Anyone can become a director in a business in SA without any visa. It's the running of the business and the working at that business that require visas.


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## Ylaw

Can anyone confirm the following changes to the immigration law (told by an agency but not heard of it anywhere else): 

"One can arrive in South Africa and be issued with a with a Visitors 11(1) permit / visa entry stamp on arrival. According to recent changes in the Immigration Department within Home Affairs (as of 18 March 2016), a change of condition can be requested to change this to a Volunteers Section 11(1)(b)(iv) permit in South Africa."


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## joe117

Yes, this is correct...only for children or spouses of holders of work or business visas


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## Ylaw

Ylaw said:


> Can anyone confirm the following changes to the immigration law (told by an agency but not heard of it anywhere else):
> 
> "One can arrive in South Africa and be issued with a with a Visitors 11(1) permit / visa entry stamp on arrival. According to recent changes in the Immigration Department within Home Affairs (as of 18 March 2016), a change of condition can be requested to change this to a Volunteers Section 11(1)(b)(iv) permit in South Africa."


Is anyone else able to confirm this or can point me to where I can find these changes? When I spoke to the agency it was for someone coming in on a regular 3 month visitors visa (not a child or spouse); but if I look at Joe's information then this wouldn't actually apply?


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## JSmeets

Hi, 

I hope someone can help, I have a small series of problems with extending my tourist visa, some of which are my own fault. Quick background: I am visiting South Africa while my girlfriend is studying here. She has a study visa, I have a 90 day visitor's visa. We have outbound flights in December, and we arrived in July. She is supporting this trip financially.

First of all, I am slightly too late for the application of visa extension. According to the new laws it has to be done within the first 30 days of your stay, and I am now on day 37. The immigration officer in the embassy of South Africa in my country of origin (the Netherlands) informed me that the first 45 days was the period I had. So after talking to VFS I have learned that I need to write an affidavit explaining why I am too late. I am wondering what would be acceptable reasons, is it a bad idea to mention that I was misinformed by the embassy in the Netherlands? It seems like a bad way to go about things. If I were to claim I was ill, would I need to produce doctor's notes? Any suggestions would be great.

Secondly, bank statements are required. Seeing as my girlfriend is bankrolling this stay, we have produced a statement wherein she confirms to be financially responsible for me for the duration of our stay, and a copy of her bank statements (alongside my pitiful ones). The main fear we have here is that when she first applied for her study visa in the Netherlands, she needed to have such documents translated (sometimes by a sworn translator, which is not easy to find) and everything needed official stamps from our banks. I can print out my documents in English, but her German bank does not support this. Would she need to get it translated? Do we need stamps to show that it is all true or will the printout be enough? 

Thirdly, border hopping. I have seen many accounts saying that border hopping nowadays is very risky and even when it does work, it usually only gets you a one or two week visa so you can get to an airport. Does this also apply to countries that are more than one border away? For instance if I went to Angola in the period my visa expired, would that get me more lenience in the way of getting a new 90 day visa? Otherwise if absolutely necessary we could maybe get me a flight back to the Netherlands, and then returning after a week or so should get me a new 90 day tourist visa, right?

Furthermore, what are the actual implications of overstaying for nearly three months? It seems like the costs of R1000 per month is actually cheaper than a round flight back home, but I am worried that they will detain me at the airport for so long that we will not make our next flights (which are not home, but to Thailand for a short backpacking holiday).

Lastly, what would happen if I were to conveniently lose my passport and apply for a new one with the Dutch Embassy? Would I get a full-fledged passport or a temporary one? Because after this we are not returning home but instead continuing on to Thailand for a short backpacking holiday, a temporary passport would make me uncomfortable.

Thanks for any and all help and answers.


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