# EU Citizen Registration, dual nationality



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

About a year ago I took up my right to have dual nationality, so I am now British and Irish. (The Irish PP was at that time free for those over 65).

My British Passport will expire next month.

I asked yesterday what I need to do as my EU Reg Cert shows me as British.

I was told that I will need to make another application/renewal and use my Irish Passport, and then I will be shown as Irish on my EU Reg Cert.

Not a situation which will be faced by many I know, but any variation to ones circumstances must be notified. 

I became aware of this when a Filipino friend, married to UK Citizen, got divorced. She did not notify the authorities of the divorce, so when she came to renew her residencia (yes *Residencia as she is non EU*) she had problems. Had she notified them of the divorce at the time then it would have been straightforward.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

Surely your citizenship will not change just because your UK passport expires?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SteveScot said:


> Surely your citizenship will not change just because your UK passport expires?


exactly my thoughts - a passport doesn't give you nationality - nationality gives you the right to a passport - & in any case, the OP has the 'right to reside' as an EU national regardless of which passport is in date - or even if neither are! . Registration is a formality - you're 'obliged to' as far as Spain is concerned, but they can't throw you out if you don't - they just want to know who's here

it's a totally different situation for a non-EU citizen - they have to have permission to live here - hence the 'residencia', & in the case of the OP's filipina friend, she is/was here on a spouse visa, so when the marriage ended she should have informed the authorities (although because of special rules for Phils citizens in Spain she'd more than likely be allowed to stay anyway)


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

SteveScot said:


> Surely your citizenship will not change just because your UK passport expires?


Sorry if I did not make it clear.

To be in Spain legally one must have a valid ID. For British and Irish nationals that means a valid Passport (or a copy certified by that consulate). 

Next month my British Passport will expire and I will then be relying on my valid Irish Passport.

That is the reason, my EU Citizen's Registration Cert must be amended, as it shows ones nationality as that of the valid passport one has.

I will still be British and Irish.


NB The information I am relying on is that provided to me personally by the Officer In Charge of the National Police Documentation Office at the police station where I work as a volunteer translator and consultant. I have no reason to believe the info is defective in any way.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

So you're not on here asking for information, just sharing it? Fair enough.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> So you're not on here asking for information, just sharing it? Fair enough.


I think the OP was asking about "what to do about changing 'residencia'" - they've since answered that as they KNOW they have to change it to reflect the ID that they carry.


So, because they now use an Irish passport instead of a UK one for ID, the 'residencia' has to be altered to reflect this.


I don't know if this is actually the case but it seems to be what they have been told.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> I think the OP was asking about "what to do about changing 'residencia'" - they've since answered that as they KNOW they have to change it to reflect the ID that they carry.
> 
> 
> So, because they now use an Irish passport instead of a UK one for ID, the 'residencia' has to be altered to reflect this.
> ...


Sorry, I seem to have lost my powers of communication.

(Thanks Alcalaina) Just to clarify:- I am not asking for advice, not seeking to start an argument, nor hoping for comments on the rights and wrongs of the professionally sourced information which I believe to be correct and thus have posted, but passing on what I have discovered to assist others who may be affected.

Just for the record, I have worked for over 16 years with the National Police.

PS Especially for those who do not know, it makes it complicated if posters, who do know, use incorrect terminology. This is particularly so here, as my post refers to the 'EU Citizens Registry' and also 'Residencia'. Which are of course totally different things.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

larryzx said:


> Sorry, I seem to have lost my powers of communication.
> 
> (Thanks Alcalaina) Just to clarify:- I am not asking for advice, not seeking to start an argument, nor hoping for comments on the rights and wrongs of the professionally sourced information which I believe to be correct and thus have posted, but passing on what I have discovered to assist others who may be affected.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, you too have used the incorrect term (as far as I am aware).

It is not a registry for citizens of the EU as the Spanish are NOT required to be on it.

Any way, I always put residencia in quotes to show that whilst this is not the correct term, it's what most people know it as. We had a long discussion about how to refer to this 'useless' piece of paper and decided that it was normally, still referred to as the 'residencia'. The actual process is to "sign on the list of foreigners".


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

_Unfortunately, you too have used the incorrect term (as far as I am aware)._

OK for the sake of 10% clarity, it is 'Certificada de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión' (I accept it does not MEAN a Spaniard, even though it does say a 'citizen of The Union, which of course includes Spaniards ! )

It is of never a 'Residencia'


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

(apologies, I noticed a couple of errors in my post but I was too late to correct them)

_Unfortunately, you too have used the incorrect term (as far as I am aware)._

OK for the sake of 100% clarity, it is 'Certificada de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión' ('Certificate of registration of a Citizen of the Union' --- I accept it does not MEAN Spaniards, even though it does say a 'citizen of The Union, which of course does includes Spaniards ! )

However, it is never, in any circumstances, a *'Residencia'* which *applies only to residents from outside the EU.*


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> (apologies, I noticed a couple of errors in my post but I was too late to correct them)
> 
> _Unfortunately, you too have used the incorrect term (as far as I am aware)._
> 
> ...


we know that - but the problem is the vast majority still insist on referring to 'the register of blahblah' as _residencia........._ even the funcionarios , in this area at least - so we often just go with the flow.......

maybe when you've been around forums & dealt with as many people on a daily basis as we have , you'll do the same

or end up blue in the face......


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> maybe when you've been around forums & dealt with as many people on a daily basis as we have , you'll do the same..


 I do not know how long you have been around. But please do not jump to the conclusion that as I have only recently started post here I am new to it. 
I have lived in Spain 27 years, I have worked with the National Police for 16 years, and a couple with Guardia Civil. I have made thousands of posts on various forums over many years, had at least a couple of thousand 'Letters to the Editor' published under a few names, in various publications, been on local radio and TV, etc etc.

As for the police also getting it wrong: In my work with the police I find that often when dealing with non-Spanish speakers the police tend to use the word which they think the foreigner will understand, so sometimes use 'Residencia' when they mean registration. ‘Finito’ is another word the police use believing it is the English word for finished , complete, done etc. and those to whom they speak often believe it is the usual ‘Spanish’ word for the same, when it is of course Italian. 

In my 'professional' guise, I am aware people using the wrong terminology does sometimes result in them getting wrong advice. An example: We have had EU citizens, especial when they are on a non-European ethnic origin, being sent to the office in Malaga as it has been understood that when they ask about Residencia, that is what they mean., when in fact it is Registration. Had they used the correct word everyone would have been on the same page.

The problem with letting incorrect terminology stick results in for example, the Vehicle Excise Licence in UK still being called ‘Road Tax’ when it ceased to have anything to do with road tax in 1937.

I agree not of world shattering importance but it seems pointless to use the wrong word when there is a correct one which everyone understands and thus avoids misunderstanding or unnecessary qualification..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I do not know how long you have been around. But please do not jump to the conclusion that as I have only recently started post here I am new to it.
> I have lived in Spain 27 years, I have worked with the National Police for 16 years, and a couple with Guardia Civil. I have made thousands of posts on various forums over many years, had at least a couple of thousand 'Letters to the Editor' published under a few names, in various publications, been on local radio and TV, etc etc.
> 
> As for the police also getting it wrong: In my work with the police I find that often when dealing with non-Spanish speakers the police tend to use the word which they think the foreigner will understand, so sometimes use 'Residencia' when they mean registration. ‘Finito’ is another word the police use believing it is the English word for finished , complete, done etc. and those to whom they speak often believe it is the usual ‘Spanish’ word for the same, when it is of course Italian.
> ...


I'm not disagreeing with you

but please don't assume that just because we don't feel the need to tell everyone what background & experience we have (beyond any business info you might find in our links), that we have none

many of us quietly help & advise new (& sometimes not so new) residents on a daily basis - & not just on forums


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you


Sorry I thought that "_maybe when you've been around forums & dealt with as many people on a daily basis as we have_" did imply you thought I did not know what I was talking about !

My reply was directed at your reply, not at your background. I hope* I *would never jump to conclusions about other posters, as you said, "not having been around as long as you'.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

... please also don't assume that just because we are English, we don't speak Spanish.

Whilst my language skills are not great, I now get by in both Spanish and Valencia. My wife, I would say, is almost fluent in both.

Xabiachica is also extremely competent and, if I'm not mistaken, actually teaches Spanish.

Like you, many of us also work with the police, hospitals etc. and provide a necessary service for those that have not yet learnt the language or perhaps don't want to learn it.

In my personal experience, many 'functionarios' still use incorrect terms and are actually not that aware of the correct terms etc. For example, many around here still don't understand the correct use of the EHIC!!!!

Anyway, we will all continue to refer to the green sheet/card as the 'residencia' because that is what everyone understands it as and is much easier to say than 'Certificada de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión'.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> ... please also don't assume that just because we are English, we don't speak Spanish.'.



I do hope that was not directed at me, as I did not make any such suggestion and I would never jump to any such conclusion. 

What I said was “.... often when dealing with non-Spanish speakers, the police tend to use the word which they think the foreigner will understand, so sometimes use 'Residencia' when they mean registration.” 

I really do not understand why when knows the correct term they do not use it. I am sure you agree that doing that will tend to avoid the confusion likely caused by using the incorrect term.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I do hope that was not directed at me, as I did not make any such suggestion and I would never jump to any such conclusion.
> 
> What I said was “.... often when dealing with non-Spanish speakers, the police tend to use the word which they think the foreigner will understand, so sometimes use 'Residencia' when they mean registration.”
> 
> I really do not understand why when knows the correct term they do not use it. I am sure you agree that doing that will tend to avoid the confusion likely caused by using the incorrect term.


when you've corrected posters 100 times in a week, you sort of give in.... we all know what we mean - including the funcionarios


we do make a big point about the difference between NIE & resident cert though


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I started this post to assist those who might need to know,. 

The starting point seems to have been forgotten, so I take the liberty of posting it again. 



_About a year ago I took up my right to have dual nationality, so I am now British and Irish. (The Irish PP was at that time free for those over 65).

My British Passport will expire next month._

_I asked yesterday what I need to do as my EU Reg Cert shows me as British.

I was told that I will need to make another application/renewal and use my Irish Passport, and then I will be shown as Irish on my EU Reg Cert.

Not a situation which will be faced by many I know, but any variation to ones circumstances must be notified. 

I became aware of this when a Filipino friend, married to UK Citizen, got divorced. She did not notify the authorities of the divorce, so when she came to renew her Residencia (*yes Residencia as she is non EU*) she had problems. Had she notified them of the divorce at the time then it would have been straightforward.

So should you have Residence ( Not EU Citizens Registration) and your circumstances change, be sure to notify the changes to avoid problems.
_


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The residencia/ registration terminology is one of my pet peeves too. Although I understand that correcting probably 90% of enquiries about registration must be wearing to say the least, I do think that the people who know the correct vocabulary should do so. And I'm including in that the civil servants!
I'd also like to say that number of years living in Spain doesn't qualify a person as knowing anything about that country unfortunately (IMO) as there are quite a few who live in total isolation of their host country.
PW - 28 years in Spain


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

I am British and hold a British (and Canadian) Passport.. Not the same thing I know, but my British passport now says Country of Birth as being Germany... (I am an army Brat and was born in a British Military hospital) Which in those days was classed as sovereign British territory within Germany.. 
All my passports over the years said British.. Until some idiot in Ottawa omitted the information! Try as I might I can't get them to go back to the previous passports records..

Arghhhhh


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Goldeneye said:


> ........... Which in those days was classed as sovereign British territory within Germany..


Of course you are in a better position to know if that is correct than me, but I remember when I was doing legal training a long time ago, that service personnel who had children in a country where they were serving had to register the birth with the British authorities and denounce that of the country where born, otherwise they would have the nationality of the country where born or dual nationality.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

larryzx said:


> Of course you are in a better position to know if that is correct than me, but I remember when I was doing legal training a long time ago, that service personnel who had children in a country where they were serving had to register the birth with the British authorities and denounce that of the country where born, otherwise they would have the nationality of the country where born or dual nationality.


Which was done.... I think my late parents said it had to be registered back then within a few days...
For the 1st 40 years of my life no problem, until someone renewing my Passport (sent via British High Commission in Ottawa) didn't do the keystroke entry correctly !! All this person saw was place of Birth 'Germany' and omitted the British Military Hospital..


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Goldeneye said:


> Which was done.... I think my late parents said it had to be registered back then within a few days...
> For the 1st 40 years of my life no problem, until someone renewing my Passport (sent via British High Commission in Ottawa) didn't do the keystroke entry correctly !! All this person saw was place of Birth 'Germany' and omitted the British Military Hospital..


If you have UK nationality / passport, I don't see where you were born makes any difference.

I was born in UK. My UK passport expires next month and I will not be renewing it. 

I now have an Irish passport which shows I was born in UK (my mother was born in Belfast, that entitled me to Irish nationality). The place of birth will not affect my rights as an Irish national.

PS I am pretty certain that only embassy/consulate property is considered to be the sovereign territory of another county, and that would not include a hospital unless in was within the embassy/consulate. Had the hospital been UK property then surely your parents would not have had to register you !


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