# Questions about 720 form??



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

I finally fixed my [email protected] and can do tax online.

I am filling my 720 form.

I have a few questions about the shares.

1.We have shares from 14 companies in UK. Should we listed all these different companies?

2. The shares were bought at different times even for same shares. For example, we bought 500 GSK shares one year and another 500 GSK in another year. How to put the dates??

3. If I finish the forms. Can I print it and take to the tax office and ask them to check before I submit online?

I am frightened by the penalty about the mistakes. So try to avoid.

My spanish accountant is not as good as me. He typed my husband info wrong( 3 mistakes) when he filled some non resident tax before. So I am quite happy to do myself. There is no other accountant where we live.

Thanks


----------



## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Sandraw719 said:


> I finally fixed my [email protected] and can do tax online.
> 
> I am filling my 720 form.
> 
> ...


When is the deadline??


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> When is the deadline??


Mar 31,2015


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I would suggest you go to a Gestor and get him/her to do the declaration. It is not entirely straightforward and in your case appears a lot more complicated than mine, and I use a gestor. 

I think it's 50 euros well spent and better than getting a lot of, probably conflicting, free advice here.


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

larryzx said:


> I would suggest you go to a Gestor and get him/her to do the declaration. It is not entirely straightforward and in your case appears a lot more complicated than mine, and I use a gestor.
> 
> I think it's 50 euros well spent and better than getting a lot of, probably conflicting, free advice here.


Thanks. I will practice and print,then take to the tax office to check.

I does not speak Spanish but my husband can.

The strange thing in Spain is everybody gave you different info. But it always came back to the foreigners when there is a problem.

We already attacked by the government. We bought a property and all the paperwork looks fine. Then the government said their official value is higher than what we paid. We have to pay 3000 euros more! When we asked the agent or notary,they pretended they do not know this "new" policy! We are fighting for this and hope to win.

Thanks God we did not end up buying some illegal property here. I know a few friends here got the illegal trouble.



From now on, I decide to do my own things here.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Sandraw719 said:


> If you ask on forums, then as I said, expect to get several different/conflicting answers.
> 
> Go to a professional whom you 'think' you can trust and do as they say.
> 
> ...


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandraw719 said:


> We already attacked by the government. We bought a property and all the paperwork looks fine. Then the government said their official value is higher than what we paid. We have to pay 3000 euros more! When we asked the agent or notary,they pretended they do not know this "new" policy! We are fighting for this and hope to win.


You are NOT being attacked by the government! This is a well known issue and was put in place to try and stop 'black money' being used when buying a property. You should not buy a property for less than the agreed valuation (cadastral value) if you do, then you run the risk of having to pay the missing tax.

Your solicitor/gestor certainly knows about it and should have advised you at the time.

This problem has been discussed on here quite frequently in the hope that we can get the message across.


----------



## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Sandraw719 said:


> Thanks. I will practice and print,then take to the tax office to check.
> 
> I does not speak Spanish but my husband can.
> 
> ...



I doubt the agent or notary did not know about this policy. This has been going on for a very long time and it is very common. Right now, most buyers end up paying below what is considered to be the _catastral_ value of the house. We ended up having to pay an extra 300€ or so in taxes to the regional government. We were told that it was going to be more expensive to fight than the tax itself, so we paid up. 

If your regional government is asking you for an additional *3000€* in taxes, it may very well be a good idea to get a _tasador_ in to evaluate the true current value of the property you bought. 

You can decide to do your own things here, but I have found using a gestor is better. Why? First off, it's my understanding that it's his or her signature that's on the line if something is wrong.


----------



## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> You are NOT being attacked by the government! This is a well known issue and was put in place to try and stop 'black money' being used when buying a property. *You should not buy a property for less than the agreed valuation (cadastral value) if you do, then you run the risk of having to pay the missing tax.*
> 
> Your solicitor/gestor certainly knows about it and should have advised you at the time.
> 
> This problem has been discussed on here quite frequently in the hope that we can get the message across.


You beat me to it  

Re: the bold - that's a "risk" I'm willing to take. All these bank properties on the market are well below their _catastral_ value. We got one heck of a deal. If we had paid the value that the regional government considers these houses are worth, it wouldn't have been a good deal at all! In the purchase of a house, what's another 300€ in taxes?! We got a huge tax break for moving to a "small town with a declining population." We ended up paying only a tiny fraction of what someone would pay in a city. :cheer2: small towns!


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> I doubt the agent or notary did not know about this policy. This has been going on for a very long time and it is very common. Right now, most buyers end up paying below what is considered to be the _catastral_ value of the house. We ended up having to pay an extra 300€ or so in taxes to the regional government. We were told that it was going to be more expensive to fight than the tax itself, so we paid up.
> 
> If your regional government is asking you for an additional *3000€* in taxes, it may very well be a good idea to get a _tasador_ in to evaluate the true current value of the property you bought.
> 
> You can decide to do your own things here, but I have found using a gestor is better. Why? First off, it's my understanding that it's his or her signature that's on the line if something is wrong.


We paid some lawyer to go on this. But it is the agent and notary office's fault by not telling us the truth. 

I worked many years in international trade and used to black in white. But I found spanish people are snoopy. They won't give you a receipt if you do not ask. They want cash instead bank transfer and talk to face to face instead of replying you emails. So if there is a problem,it is not their fault because you cannot prove.

Anyway, I learned a lesson in Spain-- to study the government websites and laws. I better learn more Spanish too.:spit:


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandraw719 said:


> We paid some lawyer to go on this. But it is the agent and notary office's fault by not telling us the truth.
> 
> I worked many years in international trade and used to black in white. But I found Spanish people are snoopy. They won't give you a receipt if you do not ask. They want cash instead bank transfer and talk to face to face instead of replying you emails. So if there is a problem,it is not their fault because you cannot prove.
> 
> Anyway, I learned a lesson in Spain-- to study the government websites and laws. I better learn more Spanish too.:spit:


... again, I have to take issue with what you are saying.

The Spanish (in my experience) are not snoopy.

It was the lawyers fault - nothing to do with the agent and certainly not with the notaire!

Spain is a cash society - always have been and probably always will be. There's nothing wrong with this (apart from not paying tax or IVA) so one has to learn to accept it.

Most Latin countries prefer to work face-to-face. The Spanish, it seems, have really not yet grasped the concept of the internet or emails in particular - this can be very frustrating for newcomers to Spain.


----------



## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

Surely if one company deals with the shares you only need to fill out the details for that company and the total holding?

Thats what my gestor toldme re savings accounts linked to current accounts
Saying that those savings accounts are dormant (and have zero balances)and have to go back to the UK to physically close them (very stupid as what the hell is internet banking for ?)


----------



## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> ... again, I have to take issue with what you are saying.
> 
> The Spanish (in my experience) are not snoopy.
> 
> ...


HOWEVER, it must be pointed out that any transaction over 2,500€ must be done via bank transfer. (Source: http://www.agenciatributaria.es/sta...a/Le_Interesa/Nota_Ley_7_12_fraude_fiscal.pdf STARTS AT THE BOTTOM OF PG. 9) If you have made a cash payment over this amount, it would be considered your own fault as you are supposed to know the laws of the land. 

As snikpoh said, e-mail is not the most typical way of communicating here. If you want something done, you must pick up the phone.


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

el pescador said:


> Surely if one company deals with the shares you only need to fill out the details for that company and the total holding?
> 
> Thats what my gestor toldme re savings accounts linked to current accounts
> Saying that those savings accounts are dormant (and have zero balances)and have to go back to the UK to physically close them (very stupid as what the hell is internet banking for ?)


Even so,we still have a few share dealing companies such as Equniti, Computershare,Capita. My husband has paper share certificates,it seems very complicated.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I am quoting from : 

Spain: Limit of cash payments foreseen by article 7 of the law 7/2012 has entered into force | Legal knowledge portal


_A) Scope of application:

Paragraph 1 of article 7 of the anti-fraud Law writes “a transaction where one of the parties intervenes as a professional or a business owner can’t be paid in cash if the amount equals or exceeds €2,500 or its counter value in a foreign currency”. It then reads that “Nevertheless, this limit will be €15,000 or its counter value in a foreign currency when the payer is an individual and proves he/she is a non-resident individual in Spain.”_


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Nothing to do with the original question, but this might be a good opportunity to pass on some advice I have been given about the 720 declaration. I didn´t think I would have to do another one after the first year as I didn´t expect the value of my assets to change significantly enough. But my investments are priced in sterling and I hadn´t, until now, thought about the increased value due to the huge improvement in exchange rates over the last two years. Oops!


----------



## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

larryzx said:


> I am quoting from :
> 
> Spain: Limit of cash payments foreseen by article 7 of the law 7/2012 has entered into force | Legal knowledge portal
> 
> ...


I understood that OP was a resident. Therefore, I cited the much smaller sum. Let's be honest here, if a builder or any other local asks you to pay a large sum in cash you can simply cite this law. When we were looking for a house, there was a gorgeous property advertised at something like 120K. It was very clearly worth a lot more. _Claro,_ when we called the real estate agent he told us that the real price was 160K an the builder wanted 40K in cash. I told the estate agent that the builder could go pound sand. 

The 7/2012 law is a really easy way to back out of what looks like will be a shady and under the table deal. "Sorry man, I *must* do a bank transfer." If they're foolish enough to tell you _no_ after you insist on a transfer, then they are *not worth working with.* I would absolutely not even consider paying over 2500€ in cash! I want the paper trail.


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

Thank all of you. I did the 720 form online and printed it. Actually it is not as difficult as I think. The computer checked the mistakes and won't let you go if you do not fix. Awesome!


----------



## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

Sandraw719 said:


> Thank all of you. I did the 720 form online and printed it. Actually it is not as difficult as I think. The computer checked the mistakes and won't let you go if you do not fix. Awesome!



What did you have to put in for bank accounts?
Im asking because i have a few unused savings accounts attached to one of my current accounts and cant close them unless i physically go into a uk branch to close them.

Im hoping you only have to give the bank details of where the accounts are held?


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

el pescador said:


> What did you have to put in for bank accounts?
> Im asking because i have a few unused savings accounts attached to one of my current accounts and cant close them unless i physically go into a uk branch to close them.
> 
> Im hoping you only have to give the bank details of where the accounts are held?


It is a declaration of assets, so if an account has NIL BALANCE then it would not count as an Asset.

In passing: I would not close any UK accounts which you have, as if one is resident O/S UK they cannot open a new account.


----------



## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

Sorry.
Another question.
My accountant said i need to get ISIN numbers for shares which my broker gave me with no issues.

My accountant said i also need to get tax identification numbers.
The spanish bank has one but the shares and uk banks dont have .....help


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

el pescador said:


> Sorry.
> Another question.
> My accountant said i need to get ISIN numbers for shares which my broker gave me with no issues.
> 
> ...



We also queried that but my gestor left the fields empty and the form was still accepted.


----------



## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> We also queried that but my gestor left the fields empty and the form was still accepted.



Ah thanks.
Thats a relief.
Spent half the day getting prepared.


----------



## ddrysdale99 (Apr 3, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> You are NOT being attacked by the government! This is a well known issue and was put in place to try and stop 'black money' being used when buying a property. You should not buy a property for less than the agreed valuation (cadastral value) if you do, then you run the risk of having to pay the missing tax.
> 
> Your solicitor/gestor certainly knows about it and should have advised you at the time.
> 
> This problem has been discussed on here quite frequently in the hope that we can get the message across.


Sorry - you SHOULDN'T pay LESS than the Cadastral value? You should pay as little as you can get away with but recognize you may have to pay tax on a higher amount.

Is it possible to challenge the Cadestral value?


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

ddrysdale99 said:


> Sorry - you SHOULDN'T pay LESS than the Cadastral value? You should pay as little as you can get away with but recognize you may have to pay tax on a higher amount.
> 
> Is it possible to challenge the Cadestral value?


Well, I suppose I agree with you but the point is that you will/may have hacienda chasing you - so the choice is yours.

Can you challenge the Valor cadestral ? - yes but it's simply not worth the expense. 

We did and found ours was slightly too low! (ours is now 1200€ ish per year) so the inspector suggested we keep quiet.


----------



## jamtart98 (Jun 3, 2010)

*Registering for Hacienda*

On this subject of the Form 720 can anyone advise me of a good English lawyer who is up on Spanish Tax.

In the area between Malaga and Marbella (I,m resident in Los Boliches).

There are a few things I need to clarify having been declared "non resident" by the Hacienda in Malaga a few years back after I produced a letter from HMRC.

However recently my bank updated my details and more than likely Hacienda will now drop me a letter since my date of commencing residence was included.

Confusing I know and the full story is too long to go into on here. Hence the need of a good lawyer.English preferably since I,m sure a Spanish lawyer will "side" with Hacienda if it comes down to doubts.

Thanks for any advice given.:confused2:


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

el pescador said:


> What did you have to put in for bank accounts?
> Im asking because i have a few unused savings accounts attached to one of my current accounts and cant close them unless i physically go into a uk branch to close them.
> 
> Im hoping you only have to give the bank details of where the accounts are held?


Neither my husband or I have 50000 euros cash savings in any bank accounts. So wont declare any banks and my husband will keep his UK bank accounts even though a few are empty.

We have properties and shares. I think we have to list all these share companies and values on Dec.31,2014 including the ISIN numbers. You can find these on the internet. 

The other things is we have to declare the total value if the property is joint ownership. For example, the property is 90000 euros. We have to put 90000 euros and indicate I only own 50%. My husband will have to do the same.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Sandraw719 said:


> ........................... We have properties and shares...........................


My wife has a property in the Philippines. She has to pay 'second home tax' on it even though there is no income on it. The calculation is on 50% of the purchase value, as there is no equivalent of Catastral Value.

I wonder how many people have not realised they must pay tax on propery they have elsewhere in the world.


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

larryzx said:


> My wife has a property in the Philippines. She has to pay 'second home tax' on it even though there is no income on it. The calculation is on 50% of the purchase value, as there is no equivalent of Catastral Value.
> 
> I wonder how many people have not realised they must pay tax on propery they have elsewhere in the world.


But we have income on these properties and it is not very much. Do we have to pay tax in Spain?? It is not second home, it is buy to let.

What is the best thing to do?


----------



## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

larryzx said:


> My wife has a property in the Philippines. She has to pay 'second home tax' on it even though there is no income on it. The calculation is on 50% of the purchase value, as there is no equivalent of Catastral Value.
> 
> I wonder how many people have not realised they must pay tax on propery they have elsewhere in the world.


The total purpose of 720 form is the Spanish government will tax on the people when they sell the assets abroad and check whether their income match the assets. What tax do your wife has to pay? What the form is called?


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandraw719 said:


> But we have income on these properties and it is not very much. Do we have to pay tax in Spain?? It is not second home, it is buy to let.
> 
> What is the best thing to do?


In that case it IS a second home. If it is in UK, you must pay tax on that income in UK and you must declare it here on your Spanish tax return.

It is not only the 'best' thing to do but it's also the 'legal' thing to do.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Sandraw719 said:


> What tax does your wife have to pay? What the form is called?


It is included in our joint annual income tax return.


----------

