# matriculation ?????



## weatherwatcher (Nov 27, 2011)

We heard a rumour which came from a Portuguese agent that come April there will be no need to change an English registered car over to Portuguese and it will be legal to drive throughout Europe. Has anybody else heard anything about this?:juggle:


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd love to think it true but I've been hearing that same rumour for the three years I've been here so probably not a good idea to hold your breath on that one.


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## weatherwatcher (Nov 27, 2011)

travelling-man said:


> I'd love to think it true but I've been hearing that same rumour for the three years I've been here so probably not a good idea to hold your breath on that one.


didn't think so!!!


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## vanrouge (Mar 8, 2013)

Cynical lot... It is true and it starts on the first of April!!!!!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

vanrouge said:


> Cynical lot... It is true and it starts on the first of April!!!!!


Not sure if that's a joke or not but if not, I'd love to see a link that proves that because a friend of mine is currently trying to matriculate a motorcycle and is having no end of hassle with IMTT who are making as difficult as they possibly can and if they knew there were changes coming, I'd have expected them to tell the agent. 

Such change would also mean the insurance companies would change their rules as well because currently they won't insure a UK registered bike that's based here. 

My friend would turn somersaults of joy if it were true though!


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## Janina k (Nov 30, 2011)

vanrouge said:


> Cynical lot... It is true and it starts on the first of April!!!!!


Trevor 

What basis do you have to make this comment, do you have a link?

Fred


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

somehow I can see this thread ending with the words " oh well, never mind !":flypig:


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

1st April = April fool's day!


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## PPashley (Sep 9, 2013)

..... So is there any truth in this or is this an April fool?


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## Mattskii (Oct 28, 2009)

Yeah!!!! lol

What's occurring? I have a classic motorhome I would like to make legal here. It all seems rather complicated. I have been told 3 stories by three different people. 1 - it is a nightmare and hugely expensive. 2 - it is simple and cheap. 3 - It ain't so bad if you get organised, there is a process which is convoluted but completable. 

So, who knows!? I'd like to see some details.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

It depends on a number of things such as are you importing it as a classic, does it genuinely qualify as a classic (in being 25+ years old and does it have or can you get a FIVA 'passport' for it) or as an ordinary vehicle and are you importing it tax free as a new immigrant or paying tax on it etc. 

To import it tax free, you have to have had it registered in your name for at least 12 months and you have to import it within 6 months of getting your residencia. 

In either case, you'll have to pay road tax on it then it's calculated according to CC & emissions etc but there's a chance you can get it registered as a vehicle of historical interest to PT, in which case it then becomes exempt from road tax......... this needs to be renewed every year and to get that renewal, you need to be a member of ACP Classicos and that of course costs....... but not as much as the road tax it gets you off of! 

If you have to pay import tax on it then that also is calculated on CC & emissions etc not on value and that can be expensive, especially for larger engined vehicles. 

I bought my classic Jeep in 3 years ago and I made sure I had ALL the paperwork needed and then used an agent in Pombal to do the matriculation........ he did a reasonably good job on what he did but (despite my telling him several times) he cocked up by registering as a normal car instead of a classic and that meant I had to pay €776 for the first year of road tax but then I was able to put it right, get it registered as a classic and now it's exempt from the road tax fee.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

Some vehicles are unable to meet the requirements of another country's legislation to allow the entry of said vehicle....this can be due to emissions, safety equipment or any other part of the vehicle's construction.

Though for example a certain model may be available in the UK, Europe and the Middle East, quite often the vehicle manufactured for the Middle East domestic market will have something missing from it's build, as it is not a requirement of Middle Eastern specifications, which will render the vehicle unregisterable within Europe.

I have a friend who bought an American built Harley Davidson in the UK around 2010, his family later moved back to the US but he was unable to take the Harley with him as it would not meet the emissions. He had no option but to sell it in the UK before leaving for the US.

Once back in the US he bought the same model of bike though obviously built for the US market. now the strange thing is that after a couple of years in the US they returned to the UK and this time he was able to bring the bike with him as even though it was a US model it would meet the UK criteria....just not the other way round!

I know that for the Australian market many european cars cannot be commercially imported into the country, though there used to be some leeway for private imports. The other way of getting vehicles registered in Australia was that they were over 25 years of age, thus vehicles of historic or significant interest, an option that is available within Portugal, though I think they must be 30 years or over in age. ( Travelling-man will be able to clarify this.)

The UK is very lax on it's rules for registering kit cars, home-built specials etc. it does not follow that because a vehicle can be registered in the UK that it can be registered in Portugal, you may have to wait until that it is old enough that it can enter as a vehicle of historic or significant interest and meet the requirements for that.

I am not sure why the earlier mentioned motorcycle is difficult to register, it may have had extensive modifications carried out to it, wrong exhausts etc. 

It should be noted that the EU have been trying to implement legislation that prohibits the modifications of vehicles, that parts fitted must be homologated for that vehicle, whether this will follow the current German and allow certain modifications from standard provided that they are German 'TUV' approved only time will tell.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

oronero said:


> Some vehicles are unable to meet the requirements of another country's legislation to allow the entry of said vehicle....this can be due to emissions, safety equipment or any other part of the vehicle's construction.
> 
> Though for example a certain model may be available in the UK, Europe and the Middle East, quite often the vehicle manufactured for the Middle East domestic market will have something missing from it's build, as it is not a requirement of Middle Eastern specifications, which will render the vehicle unregisterable within Europe.
> 
> ...


I think you're probably referring to my friend's Moto Guzzi & in which case, it's an absolutely bog standard machine.

The problem is the machine was made in 2000 and MG only issue certificates of conformity for machines made after 2001 and IMTT are insisting they want a CoC to begin the process........ when I imported my old Jeep, the IMTT happily accepted a spec sheet from the original sales brochure instead of the CoC but in the case of the Guzzi, they're refusing to do the same thing........ no idea why!

So now we have to pay (and wait) for Guzzi to come up with a CoC specifically for that machine......... and when they do, I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the brown, smelly stuff that it'll be identical to the spec sheet from the original sales document that IMTT have already refused.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

Not Guzzi but an Aprilia, perhaps what the chap did on this thread may help give your friend other options of attack....for example can he take it for a Portuguese type approval test similar to what is provided by the DVLA in the UK?

Certificate of Conformity

I know that it is possible to retro fit bigger engines into cars provided that the manufacturer offered this option. I also know that there are special test centres in Portugal that carry this out as I have had to look into all of this for my TR7 V8....just a thought.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

They've told us the bike will have to undergo a complete approval test, including a sound test anyway.

The nearest test centre to us that can do this for a motorcycle is in Leiria. Nearest for a car is Pombal.


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## dstump (Apr 26, 2010)

Mattskii said:


> Yeah!!!! lol
> 
> What's occurring? I have a classic motorhome I would like to make legal here. It all seems rather complicated. I have been told 3 stories by three different people. 1 - it is a nightmare and hugely expensive. 2 - it is simple and cheap. 3 - It ain't so bad if you get organised, there is a process which is convoluted but completable.
> 
> So, who knows!? I'd like to see some details.


We will shortly be leaving Dubai to retire to Portugal, and will be bringing our car in. Like you we worried about doing this, due to all the different views/opinions, and some very expensive horror stories we heard. We have decided to go with using an agent, following the recommendation from a forum member, and have already scanned in all the documents we have to her, and she has responded. I think it would be very difficult to get the documents retrospectively, we have to prove that we were resident over here with the car for at least a year. The cost should be around 5-600 euro, plus costs to get our car checked at a testing station, as it obviously can't have a European COC. However, for us it is relatively simple as the same model of car (Kia) is available in Portugal, and I think the only addition we have is more powerful air conditioning. 

We have been in contact with ACP, Kia Portugal, and the agent, all have been very helpful, and we think we have done everything necessary for the process to work smoothly, I hope these aren't famous last words! Will keep you appraised of how we get on.

Denise


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Having done my Jeep and also been involved in the Moto Guzzi, I'd say it's largely about having all your ducks in a row before you start. 

With the Jeep, I did all my homework, checked all the original SA paperwork was absolutely correct (it wasn't when I started but I got everything put right AND explanatory letters from the SA traffic dept) and I even carefully listed every single non standard item on the car and got a letter from my local Jeep dealer listing the modifications and that they considered them all to be acceptable changes to the original. I even downloaded a complete manufacturers workshop manual as per listed requirement ....... and having done all that, everything sailed through without a hitch. 

The Guzzi however was bought on ebay, shipped across and only then did we look at what was needed and this one has been a royal pita to even get started.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

travelling-man said:


> They've told us the bike will have to undergo a complete approval test, including a sound test anyway.
> 
> The nearest test centre to us that can do this for a motorcycle is in Leiria. Nearest for a car is Pombal.


If you go there, make sure that you stay with the bike at all times.
I took my Californian specification Porsche Cayenne Turbo for a full approval test.
The tester decided that on a stinking hot day they would do the emissions and sound tests with only the most rudimentary of cooling fans.......................
I complained bitterly about the heat sink to the two turbochargers as they switched the engine off without letting it idle and without continuing to run the cooling fan.

Livre de reclamacoes duly arrived and I got a "mealy" mouthed apology.

Personally I would not let them loose with a kiddies pedal car.

Rob


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## advolex (Mar 8, 2015)

Mattskii said:


> Yeah!!!! lol
> 
> What's occurring? I have a classic motorhome I would like to make legal here. It all seems rather complicated. I have been told 3 stories by three different people. 1 - it is a nightmare and hugely expensive. 2 - it is simple and cheap. 3 - It ain't so bad if you get organised, there is a process which is convoluted but completable.
> 
> So, who knows!? I'd like to see some details.


For what it's worth, my experience is that you can simply rule out story 2. It's untrue to call the process "simple and cheap". In practice, you end up on a scala between 1 and 3. If you find yourself near the story 3 when your car is "in", then you sure have had luck. I am quite sure by now that when this ordeal is over I will find myself very near story 1, "a nightmare and hugely expensive".

As I bought the new car as first owner, after the manufacturer, in my previous home country where I was then and for several years domiciled, hence my car was matriculated in another EU country, and it had official genuine and valid EU registration certificates issued to me, clearly indicating which EU regulations the car conformed to, I brought the car here without much hesitation. After several visits to different instances on the road map to Portuguese registration, I have found that every instance wants to be the last in the chain. So they send you to someone else with a remark that this or that required document is missing (at least not available in Portuguese translation). Of course those missing, required documents are never the same. Bad luck with timing and officials I would now think. The first public servant I spent a day with wrote me a "road map", which has been largely ignored since. He spoke excellent English and was trying to help. His required document was a special affidavit from my national embassy in Lisbon, declaring that I had not taken residence in a third country after buying the car, of which I have been the only owner. (Considering how difficult it was to be let go by my country of birth - they want to continue to tax me - I find the situation only slightly amusing)

Other instances have relied on a requirement of a CoC [I believe that this generally stands for "Certificate of Conformity" (with the particular European standards, norms and nomenclature for a particular vehicle)], which has been discussed in this forum. The thing here seems to be that people - but not you and me - can get away with their own interpretation of what a "CoC" is. The general tendency is that the document that you don't have and never have had is considered the required document, and the EU directive is not so important. That required document is not necessarily the document that was available as the car first was matriculated in the registry of another EU state, even if the authority which once registered the car thought otherwise and issued a EU certificate, according to the directive.

My conclusion of this tale is that if the car is neither all new nor a valuable vintage car it's not actually relevant if the car was duly registered in another EU state of manufacture or in California. What can I do? Not sure, as luck seems to play a role here and luck was not on my side so far in this particular matter. Any suggestions are welcome.

What will I do? I will probably hand the car over to a distant friend or relative in the country where it still is registered, and ask if I may borrow it upon my eventual visits in the old country. Unless of course the April Fool's story of the OP comes true. This "solution" has been done by others, and the sad fact is that the insurance companies accept the premiums but will only accept third party damages cover, as they have found out that the courts will accept any assumption that there is no "acceptable insured interest" at hand, for instance when an ex-owner has continued to drive the car. So much for the free movement of persons and goods in the European Union. - Oh, I might add that it's not for tax benefits that I was interested in registering my car here. I hear that the cost difference is minimal and that it costs slightly more here. No, it was more of a notion that residence should matter where you pay your dues. And I like my car. lane:


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