# wanting to move to New Zealand



## marko41

Hi there can anybody give us any advice on the best way to be able to work and live in the christchurch area we have been told they is a great deal of work for bricklayers I am wanting to go with my wife and young daughter can anybody give us any advice how to get jobs there or advice us on the best way to start a new life thanks Mark from England


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## dodgerodger

Hello 

You might want to take a look at this article that was posted today on Stuff News
on the Christchurch rebuild 

Migrants To Help Christchurch Rebuild | Stuff.co.nz

The comments are pretty interesting


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## MrsRose

dodgeroger,

Are you currently living in New Zealand? and if so, are you being forced to live there against your will? almost every post I've seen from you, in all the threads I've been following, seem to be very negative. I mean, I live in the States, and I don't like this country very much...but I could still think of many good things to say about this country to someone who is thinking of moving here. Do you ANYTHING good to say about NZ? And if not, then why are you living there?


@marko41: Just so you know...I don't live in New Zealand. I too want very much to move there someday soon. And I have read MANY positive immigrant stories along with the unsuccessful ones. I imagine, as with any country, that some immigrants will fit in well and find success and joy in their decision to move to NZ, and some will find that it was something other than what they expected. 
My husband and I are taking the time to get a balanced view of what kiwis and immigrants think of life in NZ. In the end, the decision will be based on whether we think NZ is right for _our_ family. 
Regarding immigration: We are going through an immigration agency. They're not free, but they've been extremely helpful. They have a very high success rate, and are helpful in aiding you in your visa process, finding a job, making the move, etc...

Best wishes to you!


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## dodgerodger

MrsRose said:


> dodgeroger,
> 
> Are you currently living in New Zealand? and if so, are you being forced to live there against your will? almost every post I've seen from you, in all the threads I've been following, seem to be very negative. I mean, I live in the States, and I don't like this country very much...but I could still think of many good things to say about this country to someone who is thinking of moving here. Do you ANYTHING good to say about NZ? And if not, then why are you living there?
> 
> 
> @marko41: Just so you know...I don't live in New Zealand. I too want very much to move there someday soon. And I have read MANY positive immigrant stories along with the unsuccessful ones. I imagine, as with any country, that some immigrants will fit in well and find success and joy in their decision to move to NZ, and some will find that it was something other than what they expected.
> My husband and I are taking the time to get a balanced view of what kiwis and immigrants think of life in NZ. In the end, the decision will be based on whether we think NZ is right for _our_ family.
> Regarding immigration: We are going through an immigration agency. They're not free, but they've been extremely helpful. They have a very high success rate, and are helpful in aiding you in your visa process, finding a job, making the move, etc...
> 
> Best wishes to you!



I was actually able to escape New Zealand not too long ago after spending 4 years trying to make New Zealand work for our family.
I moved back to Los Angeles after living in the south island of New Zealand.

The reason I seem to be rather negative is because New Zealand was a negative experience for us and yes we were in New Zealand against our will as we spent all our savings trying to make it work and when we finally admitted to ourselves that NZ just isnt what we imagined it to be OR what our immigration advisers had told us and what people on forums like this had said it was like; we were basically penniless.

As odd as it seems I am actually trying to bring balance to this forum; and it is not my fault if you immigrate to New Zealand and suffer the same fate as I did because I did tell you exactly how things are not sugarcoating anything.

MrsRose you and your husband from what I can tell from your previous posts will most definitely end up disliking New Zealand; unless you MrsRose can get a nice paying fulltime job in New Zealand (which in this economy is not likely) you will need to switch your diet to eat more 'normal kiwi' things. 
You will end up resenting the fact that you cannot afford to take trips to go skiing; camping etc because gas prices are extremely high for your vehicle and you just got hit with a $400 power bill for the month because you didnt want to freeze to death in the winter OR be cooked alive in your house in the summertime.

By all means please sell your house; move all your possessions halfway across the globe; say goodbye to all your friends and family and come live in New Zealand and if it doesnt work out then you just cut your losses and move back home to America with your tails between your legs.

OR

You could spend a little bit extra and come to New Zealand on a holiday to see if it living in New Zealand would in fact fit in with your life style and means BUT bear in mind that you will be treated completely different as a tourist like many before you have found out.

There is a reason why thousands of kiwis leave New Zealand every year and will continue doing so; it is because New Zealand is pretty much a 3rd world country compared to countries like the US, Canada and the UK and its political policies continue to keep it this way.

I am at a loss to why you would want to move to a country like New Zealand MrsRose; is America really THAT bad? I moved when the economy tanked and I lost my job; I didn't even bother looking in other states for work but the economy is getting better in America where as in New Zealand it is getting worse.


I would hope this post is not deleted but this post might clash with the views of the advertisers.


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## MrsRose

As stated previously, I think it's very much a matter of proper expectations and preparedness... and not arriving in a new place with the idea that _living_ there will be just like what you saw in their tourism promotional videos. I believe that could be said for the States as well. (And by the way, have you been on the US forums? Citizens and immigrants who live here seem to be just as negative towards potential immigrants about life in the US as you are being about your experiences in NZ.) 
There are probably many families out there in this great big world who travel and live in many places. There is no "perfect" place to live on earth, and I'm sure there are hits and misses along the way. Not necessarily a reason to have your "tails between your legs." Just a "live and learn" kinda thing. 

I don't think America is THAT bad. I never said that at all. We're not "fleeing the country." Lol. Our family is looking for an adventure. Something new. Something DIFFERENT from the US. We're not _expecting_ to live the same as we do here int the States. I'm well aware that our housing will be downsized, our diet will be different, and our life will be very different. I'm aware that some of the things we take for granted here in the US will have to be worked a little harder for in NZ. Having to work for the things you get, and appreciating what you have that much more because of it, is not necessarily a bad thing.
Not sure where you got that idea that our family is into skiing (we could count on one hand the amount of times we've been in the snow in our lives). Not sure what information you have that gives any idea of what our diet is like, other than the fact that I've stated in another thread that I drink almond milk. (not really a decision maker or breaker in any case.) 

As far as jobs/income/housing/etc and whether or not one is able to make a "good" living...I'm sure that varies widely depending upon each individual family's circumstances. There are a lot of factors...in ANY country...that can affect an immigrant's success or failure in integrating into a new society: career, number of dependents, lifestyle choices, ability to manage money, city of residence, cost of housing chosen, what a particular family deems "necessities" in life, and so any other individual circumstances. 

The idea that our family may just may be "cooked alive" in NZ is the summer is slightly laughable to us. We live in the Mohave Desert. Where we grew up, we saw highs of 110-120 degrees F every summer. And here in Las Vegas, summers see temperatures over 100 degrees every year. If I'm not mistaken, Most NZ cities have average summer highs in the 80s right? 
We've also saved up quite a bit, and plan to continue saving prior to our move. And with the selling of our home, and 401k, etc...our idea is, after a year or so of renting and deciding where to settle, to buy a home with insulation. That should help a great deal in the winter. 


Anyways, I'm sorry to hear that NZ didn't work out for your family. I will certainly take your experience, along with all of the other good and bad experiences I've read about, and use them all to help us in our decision and/or preparation.


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## MrsRose

marko41 said:


> Hi there can anybody give us any advice on the best way to be able to work and live in the christchurch area we have been told they is a great deal of work for bricklayers I am wanting to go with my wife and young daughter can anybody give us any advice how to get jobs there or advice us on the best way to start a new life thanks Mark from England


We've been advised that getting whatever NZ registration you may need to qualify for your trade is helpful in increasing your chances of securing a job offer. You can go about getting your registrations/certifications on your own, or hire an agent to assist you.


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## topcat83

dodgerodger said:


> ...
> I would hope this post is not deleted but this post might clash with the views of the advertisers.


..I certainly won't delete it, because the people who read this forum do need to know that some people don't make a go of it. 

But there are many that do - and love the life. 

Fuel is _not_ expensive here when compared with many places in the world - it is that fuel is cheap in the US. And compared to the US NZ uses much less energy per capita. 

You obviously found yourself in a badly insulated and old house, and in these kinds of structures heating is an issue. The first house we stayed in was a lovely old family house in Meadowbank, with a swimming pool in the back garden - and very little insulation or heating. So we made sure that when we bought a house we had it properly insulated. Our fuel bills were_ not_ high when compared to the UK then. In our new house they are even cheaper - and we heat it with a heat pump. The moral of this story? Look for a house (bought or rented) that is insulated! 

From what I've seen of MrsRose's posts, she'll fit in very well, because she is coming over with realistic expectations and an open mind. And that's very much in line with Kiwi culture.

I think your suggestion of coming over for a visit first is a good one though - emigrating anywhere is a big step that is not to be taken lightly, and with as much information as you can make your decision on as possible.


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## anski

dodgerodger said:


> I was actually able to escape New Zealand not too long ago after spending 4 years trying to make New Zealand work for our family.
> I moved back to Los Angeles after living in the south island of New Zealand.
> 
> The reason I seem to be rather negative is because New Zealand was a negative experience for us and yes we were in New Zealand against our will as we spent all our savings trying to make it work and when we finally admitted to ourselves that NZ just isnt what we imagined it to be OR what our immigration advisers had told us and what people on forums like this had said it was like; we were basically penniless.
> 
> As odd as it seems I am actually trying to bring balance to this forum; and it is not my fault if you immigrate to New Zealand and suffer the same fate as I did because I did tell you exactly how things are not sugarcoating anything.
> 
> MrsRose you and your husband from what I can tell from your previous posts will most definitely end up disliking New Zealand; unless you MrsRose can get a nice paying fulltime job in New Zealand (which in this economy is not likely) you will need to switch your diet to eat more 'normal kiwi' things.
> You will end up resenting the fact that you cannot afford to take trips to go skiing; camping etc because gas prices are extremely high for your vehicle and you just got hit with a $400 power bill for the month because you didnt want to freeze to death in the winter OR be cooked alive in your house in the summertime.
> 
> By all means please sell your house; move all your possessions halfway across the globe; say goodbye to all your friends and family and come live in New Zealand and if it doesnt work out then you just cut your losses and move back home to America with your tails between your legs.
> 
> OR
> 
> You could spend a little bit extra and come to New Zealand on a holiday to see if it living in New Zealand would in fact fit in with your life style and means BUT bear in mind that you will be treated completely different as a tourist like many before you have found out.
> 
> There is a reason why thousands of kiwis leave New Zealand every year and will continue doing so; it is because New Zealand is pretty much a 3rd world country compared to countries like the US, Canada and the UK and its political policies continue to keep it this way.
> 
> I am at a loss to why you would want to move to a country like New Zealand MrsRose; is America really THAT bad? I moved when the economy tanked and I lost my job; I didn't even bother looking in other states for work but the economy is getting better in America where as in New Zealand it is getting worse.
> 
> 
> I would hope this post is not deleted but this post might clash with the views of the advertisers.


I am not sure when you arrived in New Zealand or when you left but you really paint a very grim picture of New Zealand.

From your statements you obviously do not have an accurate picture of life in New Zealand currently. New Zealand is certainly not in the dire financial position you state.

Living in the South Island is very different to the North Island. Most people (whether they want to or not) decide to settle in Auckland (North Island) simply because of economics. Most of the best employment opportunities are here & that 
should be the most important fact to consider when moving anywhere but especially to a new country. Moving to where there is a small population unless you have a job skill that is hard to fill by local labour is nothing short of committing financial suicide.

There are many people that would love to live somewhere other than Auckland BUT unless they are comfortably retired they sensibly choose not too.

As for people coming & leaving that really is no different to many other countries, I have lived in no less than 10 countries & I certainly never left any country with my tail between my legs. Every country I have lived in has had some positive aspects, but we can all nit pick & find fault. As for comparing NZ with a third world country, that is completely laughable. If you had ever visited a third world country you would see why.

As for the USA having better economy at the moment, I was there in September & shortly will be living there again for a spell, but from my observation there was & still is a lot of problems there. Many people are homeless or unemployed & their is a wide gap between the very rich & the poor.

NZ provides free public hospital care for all, & even provide free emergency health care to visitors from certain countries yet I would not even get a free band aid in America.
My American friend received emergency room treatment here for free when he had a stroke, he was amazed they did not ask for any payment. Tell me where this would happen in America?


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## dodgerodger

topcat83 said:


> ..I certainly won't delete it, because the people who read this forum do need to know that some people don't make a go of it.
> 
> But there are many that do - and love the life.


What do you mean by 'don't make a go of it?'

If you are implying that we didn't try to make New Zealand work for us and that we just gave up; you are sadly mistaken.

We brought over our life savings to NZ; it took months to get a job; over priced housing, out of this world high utility bills, overpriced food etc dwindled our savings down to almost nothing by the time we were actually able to get jobs.

I was unable to get a job in my desired field because I didnt have NZ experience which is completely BS; my wife was also unable to get a job in her field for the same reasons.

Repeatedly talked down to and talked behind our backs because we are American and even though kiwis love all things American they just seem to hate people from America.



MrsRose said:


> The idea that our family may just may be "cooked alive" in NZ is the summer is slightly laughable to us. We live in the Mohave Desert. Where we grew up, we saw highs of 110-120 degrees F every summer. And here in Las Vegas, summers see temperatures over 100 degrees every year. If I'm not mistaken, Most NZ cities have average summer highs in the 80s right?
> We've also saved up quite a bit, and plan to continue saving prior to our move. And with the selling of our home, and 401k, etc...our idea is, after a year or so of renting and deciding where to settle, to buy a home with insulation. That should help a great deal in the winter.


New Zealand does get the occasional hot day in the summer and unlike the dry heat in NV the heat in New Zealand is a sickly moist one and because most houses are not kitted out with A/C like they are in America; you will be forced to use your heat pump (if you are 'lucky' to have one that is ) as an A/C which they are clearly not designed for because they do a very poor job of cooling down anything.



anski said:


> NZ provides free public hospital care for all, & even provide free emergency health care to visitors from certain countries yet I would not even get a free band aid in America.
> My American friend received emergency room treatment here for free when he had a stroke, he was amazed they did not ask for any payment. Tell me where this would happen in America?


New Zealand does provide 'free' healthcare but you get what you pay for which is substandard careless doctors and a lot of mistakes and misdiagnosis.
I would rather have the healthcare system we have in America any day; it may be broken but we have the best doctors in the world hands down and as long as you have insurance (or are too poor or are an illegal immigrant) you can get access to them.
At least in America you CAN sue for medical malpractice UNLIKE in New Zealand where there is no accountability for doctors.



Topcat83 said:


> You obviously found yourself in a badly insulated and old house, and in these kinds of structures heating is an issue. The first house we stayed in was a lovely old family house in Meadowbank, with a swimming pool in the back garden - and very little insulation or heating. So we made sure that when we bought a house we had it properly insulated. Our fuel bills were not high when compared to the UK then. In our new house they are even cheaper - and we heat it with a heat pump. The moral of this story? Look for a house (bought or rented) that is insulated!


Good luck finding a house that is well insulated; non drafty windows ect that does't cost an arm and a leg especially in Christchurch where all the building work is supposedly taking place.

New Zealand is and most likely will be best suited for new immigrants who have money to spend and can fly back to their home country on a whim just for a visit and this is just the sort of immigrant the New Zealand government loves.


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## topcat83

Oh dear, dodgerodger - you do want to make a fight of it. 

I think the very fact that you are so bitter about the whole experience and have moved back to where you came from actually says more than your rants. 

I'm bored with what you are saying so I personally will not be bothering to read what you say from now on, other than to make sure you follow forum rules.......

If anyone finds that there is a member who's posts they don't want to see, you can add them to your 'ignore list'. They won't be able to send you private messages either! This can be very useful if there's someone who's posts are really annoying you. 

You can do this through your User Control Panel: Select User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.


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## 80cmills

Hi 

I just want to say on a positive note that we moved to nz in July 2011 from the uk. And we have never looked back. We just love it here. 

Yes the older houses are cold but with extra heating you can manage it. Plus the winter months aren't that long. Also if you buy a house pre 2002 the government are giving grants to help with the cost of insulation etc.

Food prices- yes at some times of the year certain fruit and veg items are very expensive. All this means is that they are out of season. So just shop seasonally and then there are not really any problems. 

I have replied to you tread as I don't want one persons view to be the only one posted. 

If you want to ask any questions I would be more than happy to answer them the best I can.


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## relocatella

dodgerodger said:


> I was unable to get a job in my desired field because I didnt have NZ experience which is completely BS; my wife was also unable to get a job in her field for the same reasons.
> 
> Repeatedly talked down to and talked behind our backs because we are American and even though kiwis love all things American they just seem to hate people from America.


Do you think if you and/or you wife had found a job in your field things would have turned differently? Maybe the jobs you found did not pay as much as a job in your field would have. Maybe with this extra money you would have been able to go skiing and enjoy all the outdoor activities you had imagined doing once in New Zealand? Also maybe because you were not in your work field, you were not as comfortable at work as you are usually. It is not easy to enjoy a job and make friends with your colleagues when you don't feel you should be here.

I genuinely wish you that soon enough you will be able to put the bitterness behind you and that you will be able to consider your years in New Zealand as an experience rather than a wrong story!


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## MrsRose

I have never understood the whole "yeah, but it's a dry heat" thing. Why do people think that 120 degrees (48 degrees C) is ok so long as it's a "dry" heat? Have you ever been in an oven? Ovens are dry heat too. I don't care if it's dry or humid...anything over a hundred degrees is HOT! 
Basically, it's like the difference between a sauna or a steam room. Neither one of them is any fun after a few short minutes. Lol

My husband and I have lived in this dry, dusty desert our whole lives, and we can't wait to experience Nz's ocean climate!


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## bdl123

"New Zealand is pretty much a 3rd world country compared to countries like the US, Canada and the UK and its political policies continue to keep it this way".........

I'm sorry for butting in on this argument but I find the above statement utterly ridiculous. I assume you've never been to a 3rd world country if you comparing NZ to one. 

We have electricity, running water etc...we import & export & maintain a sustainable food supply!!!!! It's a shame all 'other 3rd World Countries' aren't as developed!

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## dodgerodger

bdl123 said:


> "New Zealand is pretty much a 3rd world country compared to countries like the US, Canada and the UK and its political policies continue to keep it this way".........
> 
> I'm sorry for butting in on this argument but I find the above statement utterly ridiculous. I assume you've never been to a 3rd world country if you comparing NZ to one.
> 
> We have electricity, running water etc...we import & export & maintain a sustainable food supply!!!!! It's a shame all 'other 3rd World Countries' aren't as developed!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


You quoted me correctly so you should know that I compared New Zealand to other 1st world countries.
New Zealand with it's overpriced leaky houses, it's salary to livable ratio, its political policies is what I am basing my opinions off of and I am not alone in this.

New Zealand is considered to be among the 1st world countries by many but at the bottom of this list; some would consider it a 3rd world country but compared to other 3rd world countries New Zealand would rank among the best.
New Zealand is either the worst 1st world nation or one of the best 3rd world nations.
I have actually been to other so called 3rd world countries so I do know what I am talking about.


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## toojoon

anski said:


> I am not sure when you arrived in New Zealand or when you left but you really paint a very grim picture of New Zealand.
> 
> From your statements you obviously do not have an accurate picture of life in New Zealand currently. New Zealand is certainly not in the dire financial position you state.
> 
> Living in the South Island is very different to the North Island. Most people (whether they want to or not) decide to settle in Auckland (North Island) simply because of economics. Most of the best employment opportunities are here & that
> should be the most important fact to consider when moving anywhere but especially to a new country. Moving to where there is a small population unless you have a job skill that is hard to fill by local labour is nothing short of committing financial suicide.
> 
> There are many people that would love to live somewhere other than Auckland BUT unless they are comfortably retired they sensibly choose not too.
> 
> As for people coming & leaving that really is no different to many other countries, I have lived in no less than 10 countries & I certainly never left any country with my tail between my legs. Every country I have lived in has had some positive aspects, but we can all nit pick & find fault. As for comparing NZ with a third world country, that is completely laughable. If you had ever visited a third world country you would see why.
> 
> As for the USA having better economy at the moment, I was there in September & shortly will be living there again for a spell, but from my observation there was & still is a lot of problems there. Many people are homeless or unemployed & their is a wide gap between the very rich & the poor.
> 
> NZ provides free public hospital care for all, & even provide free emergency health care to visitors from certain countries yet I would not even get a free band aid in America.
> My American friend received emergency room treatment here for free when he had a stroke, he was amazed they did not ask for any payment. Tell me where this would happen in America?


I just had to reply to the comment abouyt FREE HOSPITAL CARE. New Zealand does have a welfare state so it tries to provide free education, free hospitals etc, but don't be deluded. Sometimes there are LONG waiting times to get into the hospitals. Emergency Rooms in some places are overloaded or under-staffed. Even education is not really free....There are all sorts of fees and costs involved. 

I'd recommend the NZ government website for factual advice about requirements for working in NZ.


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## anski

toojoon said:


> I just had to reply to the comment abouyt FREE HOSPITAL CARE. New Zealand does have a welfare state so it tries to provide free education, free hospitals etc, but don't be deluded. Sometimes there are LONG waiting times to get into the hospitals. Emergency Rooms in some places are overloaded or under-staffed. Even education is not really free....There are all sorts of fees and costs involved.


As of June 2010 32% of the New Zealand population had private health insurance.

http://www.healthfunds.org.nz/pdf/Fact File oct2010.pdf

Yes there are waiting lists for the rest of the population requiring treatment & the time frame is dependant upon your condition.

Conditions requiring urgent attention are given priority over non urgent as is the case of most countries providing free medical treatment.

Cardiac conditions are treated immediately.


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## NZ32

dodgerodger said:


> You quoted me correctly so you should know that I compared New Zealand to other 1st world countries.
> New Zealand with it's overpriced leaky houses, it's salary to livable ratio, its political policies is what I am basing my opinions off of and I am not alone in this.
> 
> New Zealand is considered to be among the 1st world countries by many but at the bottom of this list; some would consider it a 3rd world country but compared to other 3rd world countries New Zealand would rank among the best.
> New Zealand is either the worst 1st world nation or one of the best 3rd world nations.
> I have actually been to other so called 3rd world countries so I do know what I am talking about.


NZs nominal GDP per capita now exceeds many european countries including the UK. As of 2012, GDP per capita of selected countries is as follows:

NZ: $40,454
UK: $38,891
Italy: $33,942
Spain: $30,150

For link just google "gdp by country nominal past and future"

Not bad for a 3rd world country is it to be ahead of a supposedly advanced country like the UK on a GPD per capita basis.

I have sympathy with some of the immigrants who come to NZ and struggle financially. However, that does not mean that everyone is in the same boat. Most of my family and relatives in NZ are doing very well for themselves. Certainly salaries offered in NZ in my field are now as good as or exceed those in the UK or Europe, in know this because I am regularly approached and recieve regular updates regarding job opportunities all round the world in my field.

So in summary, there are well paid jobs in NZ if you work in the right field and you are good at what you do. I am sorry on the behalf of NZ to those immigrants who do not find these or miss out in any way. This may be because they work in the wrong field or they may just be unlucky. But just because you (and some other) immigrants have come to NZ and struggled (no disrespect) does not mean that everyone will, because we're not all in the same boat.


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## topcat83

anski said:


> ...Cardiac conditions are treated immediately....


I can vouch for this. My husband had a minor heart attack when we were in Dunedin. He was on a bed with a heart monitor on him in the time it took me to drop him off at the emergency door and return after parking the car. They had him booked in for an angiogram the day after, and a quadruple bypass the week after that.

Compare this to the similar situation 15 years ago in the UK (which was ironically in the hospital that he worked in) - We had to pay for a private angiogram two weeks later or wait indefinitely on the NHS waiting list.

And we have had a couple of minor procedures done on the Health Service here too - both in a private clinic and within 2 months of being placed on the waiting list.

So yes - there can be waiting lists for non-urgent treatment. But if it's life threatening then I cannot fault the service.


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## anski

My husband had both his cardiac procedures done in a private hospital & I could not fault the treatment.

However on 3 occasions since he has required hospital treatment & in all instances the ambulance was here within minutes, he was rushed to Auckland City Hospital & had immediate tests & specialist care.

I have also experienced immediate treatment when I fractured my shoulder & had x rays a MRI & course of injections at Greenlane Orthopaedics clinic over the past 4 months. I have always been given appointments & last time I arrived early & was seen immediately
So sorry but I cannot fault the free health care.


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## MrsRose

dodgerodger said:


> New Zealand is considered to be among the 1st world countries by many but at the bottom of this list; some would consider it a 3rd world country but compared to other 3rd world countries New Zealand would rank among the best.
> New Zealand is either the worst 1st world nation or one of the best 3rd world nations.
> I have actually been to other so called 3rd world countries so I do know what I am talking about.


It's interesting then to note that New Zealand cities (and the country as a whole) have ranked among the top ten *internationally *for lists like "most livable cities" "highest quality of life" "best countries to be a mom" and "most beautiful places in the world."


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## MrsRose

*regarding healthcare...*

I live in the United States...you know...that country where everyone seems to think the healthcare is _SO_ topnotch and superior to NZ (and every other industrialized country for that matter). 

I would just like to shed some light on any misguided ideas any of you may have about the "wonderful" healthcare we have here in the States. 

I keep seeing complaints about the "free" healthcare in NZ, and how it's not really free because you have to pay higher taxes, and endure long waits, and the care you receive is sometimes substandard. Here in the US, it's NO DIFFERENT. Except we PAY A LOT of money in premiums, AND deductibles, AND co-pays, *AND* our out-of-pocket portions for _our_ long waits and substandard care. 

My father paid over $800 a month for many years for health insurance! He also had a portion of his income taken out for workman's compensation, and social security. Now that his back was severely injured at work, he's going on his *5th year* of waiting for back surgery. And after years of paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars into the system, he's getting very little back. His insurance won't cover him. Workman's comp gave him so little that he can't afford surgery. He has to pay hundreds of dollars every month for his pain medications. And in the meantime, my parents lost their home, cars, and any hope of retirement or this so-called American Dream. 

And regarding the US having the best doctors in the world. I would beg to differ. My uncle is on his 15th back surgery because his surgeon made a mistake on his initial surgery and they've been trying to correct it ever since. And my experience giving birth in a US hospital was horrific. (While poor quality healthcare is not everyone's experience in the US, it's not too uncommon either.) 

My point is, US healthcare is better than many, many countries. HOWEVER, if you look at reputable annual surveys done internationally...the US actually ranks VERY low in the quality and affordability of healthcare among industrialized nations. I haven't seen even one list where it ranks in the top ten. most lists, it's not even in the top twenty. And on some lists, *New Zealand ranks higher* than the US. 
According to some recent studies, the US boasts the highest maternal mortality rate in the industrialized world! So much for the amazing (mythical) healthcare in the US.


----------



## Beefhooked

topcat83 said:


> Oh dear, dodgerodger - you do want to make a fight of it.
> 
> I think the very fact that you are so bitter about the whole experience and have moved back to where you came from actually says more than your rants.
> 
> I'm bored with what you are saying so I personally will not be bothering to read what you say from now on, other than to make sure you follow forum rules.......
> 
> If anyone finds that there is a member who's posts they don't want to see, you can add them to your 'ignore list'. They won't be able to send you private messages either! This can be very useful if there's someone who's posts are really annoying you.
> 
> You can do this through your User Control Panel: Select User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.


This is typical of New Zealand, over-regulated and moderated out of existance, move to Vermont if you want to live somewhere...like NZ was 30 years ago. Same pop density etc.


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> This is typical of New Zealand, over-regulated and moderated out of existance, move to Vermont if you want to live somewhere...like NZ was 30 years ago. Same pop density etc.


Obviously there are folk for whom NZ isnt utopia. But then that could be said for every country in the world. Horses for courses. Some love it, others dont. What everyone who's thinking of moving there needs to do is seek out every bit of information they can, thru forums, the internet, reading, asking questions and taking all views in and then making a decision. Its no good listening to one or two who dont like it, or indeed one or two who do. everyone is different. So theres no point in either "camp" ranting endlessly. Your views are one of many. One angry and disillusioned poster cant speak for a whole nation can they!!!!

To any newbies, information is king!

Jo xxx


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## Beefhooked

*a low security prison*



jojo said:


> One angry and disillusioned poster cant speak for a whole nation can they!!!!
> 
> To any newbies, information is king!
> 
> Jo xxx


Hey don't get me wrong, I love the place, its just that New Zealand is like a low security prison, one where you can get out on the weekend to go fishing.... and belive me you have to cos it is just so damn expensive to live here


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> Hey don't get me wrong, I love the place, its just that New Zealand is like a low security prison, one where you can get out on the weekend to go fishing.... and belive me you have to cos it is just so damn expensive to live here


 Expensive compared to where?? Alot of posters are from England and therefore they compare their lives there to a new one in NZ. But I dont know, thats what forums are for, comparing costs, values, employment situations, lifestyles and sharing experiences. So on that assumption, (and I dont know the answer) how does the cost of living compare to the UK??? 

Jo xxx


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## bdl123

I came over from the UK this year and so far I find the cost of living quite comparable. Yes some things are cheaper...certain used cars, no water rates (in Welly anyway) fuel, free parking in city centre for 2hrs at a weekend (would NEVER happen in UK) houses when buying...bigger houses for less buck here but not built as well as UK...but some things are more expensive...rental properties, European cars, Sky TV...and in an attempt to lighten the whole post...weightwatchers, beauty products, over the counter meds are far more expensive in NZ. 
There are many things I'm not keen about living in NZ but would always refrain from 'slating' a country as I believe all countries have their issues or we'd all live in the same place forever!!! However, compared to my 39 yrs in the UK & apart from missing family I am so far preferring my life in NZ..I feel much safer here, even walking around a city, than I ever did walking around most cities I've been to in UK, it's cleaner here, not as much litter or graffiti around, less violent crime reported in news....therefore they alone are good enough reasons for me to want to raise my toddler here....

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## toojoon

MrsRose said:


> I have never understood the whole "yeah, but it's a dry heat" thing. Why do people think that 120 degrees (48 degrees C) is ok so long as it's a "dry" heat? Have you ever been in an oven? Ovens are dry heat too. I don't care if it's dry or humid...anything over a hundred degrees is HOT!
> Basically, it's like the difference between a sauna or a steam room. Neither one of them is any fun after a few short minutes. Lol
> 
> My husband and I have lived in this dry, dusty desert our whole lives, and we can't wait to experience Nz's ocean climate!


New Zealand's climate differs from one part of the country to another. For example, Auckland in the summer can be quite humid and afternoon rain can cool things down a bit but make it more steamy. In contrast, Marlborough in the top of the south island can be a few degrees hotter and very dry in summer. Inland climates are much cooler in the winter with frosts overnight quite common. Still it warms up quite a bit during the day! We do sometimes get extreme weather conditions (e.g. snow storms in the south, cyclone/hurricane storms in the north),
but we survive.

Comments elsewhere on the thread about home insulation are very valid. Older homes generally are poorly insulated......unless you have a good landlord. And home heating costs have certainly risen in the past few years. In Auckland a fan or dehumidifier makes life a bit more comfortable if you are from cooler climate zone. Some people get by in Auckland summer and winter without a jersey/pullover/sweater. How hardy are you??


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## MrsRose

toojoon said:


> New Zealand's climate differs from one part of the country to another. For example, Auckland in the summer can be quite humid and afternoon rain can cool things down a bit but make it more steamy. In contrast, Marlborough in the top of the south island can be a few degrees hotter and very dry in summer. Inland climates are much cooler in the winter with frosts overnight quite common. Still it warms up quite a bit during the day! We do sometimes get extreme weather conditions (e.g. snow storms in the south, cyclone/hurricane storms in the north),
> but we survive.
> 
> Comments elsewhere on the thread about home insulation are very valid. Older homes generally are poorly insulated......unless you have a good landlord. And home heating costs have certainly risen in the past few years. In Auckland a fan or dehumidifier makes life a bit more comfortable if you are from cooler climate zone. Some people get by in Auckland summer and winter without a jersey/pullover/sweater. How hardy are you??


So one way or another, the weather will be something very new for our family. 
But I'm sure we can manage. Here in the desert, the temperatures are fairly extreme. It doesn't get TOO cold, but it gets i the 30s and 40s here in winter (fahrenheit), and summers are always over 100 degrees F. 
I suppose humid air will take a little getting used to, but it'll be a nice change. The desert air here is so dry, it's really hard on your skin. 

We've never been in a hurricane/cyclone though. What's that like? Is it devastating every time you have one? 

and are there really tornadoes in/around Auckland?


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## anski

I don't think there is a country in the world that has not had a rise in their power bills. I know in the 2 years we lived away from NZ in Cyprus & Tenerife our power was not cheap.
In NZ you can shop around for the cheapest provider & there are websites that help you in this.

Interesting our power bills cost the same over a year in Cyprus as it did in NZ. However in NZ we have gas central heating which is on for at least 9 months of the year,yet in Cyprus our hot water was free (heated by solar panels) for 9-10 months of the year.in the colder months we had oil central heating. So even with all the free power it cost the same as NZ. therefore power is more expensive in Cyprus than NZ.
In Cyprus we rented a 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom luxury villa with pool in a upmarket suburb for €700 a month (NZ $1,100) & when we gave notice we were leaving the landlord offered us 50% discount to entice us to stay. The same rental here would be in excess of $4,000 a month for a similar property & area.

3 visits to the cardiologist cost €70 in Cyprus, here first consultation $250 & follow up visits $120 although those prices were 3 years ago, I am sure it has increased since then.

In Cyprus & Tenerife just 1 of my husbands meds cost €56 a month, here he gets 3 months supply for $3

I could go on & on but you cannot do a comparison of countries based on wages & cost of living because of the many variations involved; it's like comparing apples to pears.

At the end of the day it's all about if you can live on what you earn. 
It's amazing that some pensioners here (that own their own home) & can live on their NZ super which is $500 couple a week, yet others cannot live on $70,000 a year.


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## anski

MrsRose said:


> So one way or another, the weather will be something very new for our family.
> But I'm sure we can manage. Here in the desert, the temperatures are fairly extreme. It doesn't get TOO cold, but it gets i the 30s and 40s here in winter (fahrenheit), and summers are always over 100 degrees F.
> I suppose humid air will take a little getting used to, but it'll be a nice change. The desert air here is so dry, it's really hard on your skin.
> 
> We've never been in a hurricane/cyclone though. What's that like? Is it devastating every time you have one?
> 
> and are there really tornadoes in/around Auckland?


I would iot call them tornadoes.

We have strong gusts of winds from time to time. We live close to the water & one bad storm ripped a portion of a picket fence out & tossed it across the road, mind you the fence was very old & rotten so it did us a favour. I put it on trademe for $1 & people bid it up to $150!


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## carosapien

There are tornadoes occasionally, but not usually on the scale you have in the states. 

A friend got caught up in the one at the Albany shopping centre last year and her car was slightly damaged by debris. The guy who was thrown off the roof of the old Placemakers store wasn't so lucky.

Weather warnings lifted after Albany tornado wreaks havoc; one dead - National - NZ Herald News


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## anski

bdl123 said:


> I came over from the UK this year and so far I find the cost of living quite comparable. Yes some things are cheaper...certain used cars, no water rates (in Welly anyway) fuel, free parking in city centre for 2hrs at a weekend (would NEVER happen in UK) houses when buying...bigger houses for less buck here but not built as well as UK...but some things are more expensive...rental properties, European cars, Sky TV...and in an attempt to lighten the whole post...weightwatchers, beauty products, over the counter meds are far more expensive in NZ.
> There are many things I'm not keen about living in NZ but would always refrain from 'slating' a country as I believe all countries have their issues or we'd all live in the same place forever!!! However, compared to my 39 yrs in the UK & apart from missing family I am so far preferring my life in NZ..I feel much safer here, even walking around a city, than I ever did walking around most cities I've been to in UK, it's cleaner here, not as much litter or graffiti around, less violent crime reported in news....therefore they alone are good enough reasons for me to want to raise my toddler here....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


I returned to the town I was born in the UK last year & I have to state I have not lived in the UK since I was 9 apart from a few months here & there over the past 57 years.

I was appalled at the state of the place, whilst I could not call it dirty by comparison to some countries I have visited, it was more like shabby & in need of a serious spruce up. 

My sister has lived there 80 years & all her life in the same house & as we walked around she lamented how they had let the place run down with broken pavements everywhere & the situation was to get worse as council had said they were going to switch off street lighting to cut costs.


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## carosapien

Last year I went back to the small town I grew up in. Nothing had changed, it was the same as it was when I left, but then it always was a pleasant place to visit. The hanging baskets were laden down with trailing fuschias and the WI still had their cake stall in the market on a Saturday morning. Absolutely timeless and quintessentially English.

We spent a couple of lovely evenings in our old pub catching up with the regulars who I swear hadn't moved from the bar in all that time, neither had the landlord's dog from the beer garden. I'd forgotten how cheap it was to eat out a massive ploughmans and streak and ale pie for 8 quid. Simple pleasures but, it's amazing how we took them for granted.


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## toojoon

MrsRose said:


> So one way or another, the weather will be something very new for our family.
> But I'm sure we can manage. Here in the desert, the temperatures are fairly extreme. It doesn't get TOO cold, but it gets i the 30s and 40s here in winter (fahrenheit), and summers are always over 100 degrees F.
> I suppose humid air will take a little getting used to, but it'll be a nice change. The desert air here is so dry, it's really hard on your skin.
> 
> We've never been in a hurricane/cyclone though. What's that like? Is it devastating every time you have one?
> 
> and are there really tornadoes in/around Auckland?


The tornadoes are generally small and localised - not like the massive ones that we hear about on the news that occur in the U.S. Florida pan-handle! Actually the TV news reports them because they are a bit unusual.
The cyclone/storms (we do not call them hurricanes) bring damaging winds and heavy rainfall. In the worst instances houses do lose rooves, and flooding occurs -especially for homes in low-lying areas, near rivers, or on flood plains! It's more of a concern for farmers and horticulturalists really as it effects their livelihood.
At sometimes of the year the weather can be very changeable- and you need to be prepared to put extra layers on, or take them off to adjust to the temperature. A popular KWI song talks about "Four seasons in one day" and it is certainly true. Kiwi often talk about the weather! It's a sub-tropical climate, so you can get a bit of everything thrown at you.


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## toojoon

bdl123 said:


> I came over from the UK this year and so far I find the cost of living quite comparable. Yes some things are cheaper...certain used cars, no water rates (in Welly anyway) fuel, free parking in city centre for 2hrs at a weekend (would NEVER happen in UK) houses when buying...bigger houses for less buck here but not built as well as UK...but some things are more expensive...rental properties, European cars, Sky TV...and in an attempt to lighten the whole post...weightwatchers, beauty products, over the counter meds are far more expensive in NZ.
> There are many things I'm not keen about living in NZ but would always refrain from 'slating' a country as I believe all countries have their issues or we'd all live in the same place forever!!! However, compared to my 39 yrs in the UK & apart from missing family I am so far preferring my life in NZ..I feel much safer here, even walking around a city, than I ever did walking around most cities I've been to in UK, it's cleaner here, not as much litter or graffiti around, less violent crime reported in news....therefore they alone are good enough reasons for me to want to raise my toddler here....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


My sister lived in London for 7 years, and moved back here with her UK husband about 8 years ago. He loves it in NZ and they have never made a single trip back to the UK. He used to work for the local council as a street cleaner and truck driver, now works in the scrap metal industry.


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## anski

carosapien said:


> Last year I went back to the small town I grew up in. Nothing had changed, it was the same as it was when I left, but then it always was a pleasant place to visit. The hanging baskets were laden down with trailing fuschias and the WI still had their cake stall in the market on a Saturday morning. Absolutely timeless and quintessentially English.
> 
> We spent a couple of lovely evenings in our old pub catching up with the regulars who I swear hadn't moved from the bar in all that time, neither had the landlord's dog from the beer garden. I'd forgotten how cheap it was to eat out a massive ploughmans and streak and ale pie for 8 quid. Simple pleasures but, it's amazing how we took them for granted.


Nice to hear you had a lovely visit.

Yes I was amazed at the cheap pub meals & prices in Sainburys, but I needed CPR when I refilled the car. OMG it was sooooooo very expensive


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## toojoon

I want to say something about New Zealand attitudes towards U.S. citizens and other immigrants. SOME New Zealanders have long memories and don't forget history. Some are narrow-minded. They might dislike or keep at a distrustful distance French people because once French saboteaurs blew up the Greenpeace vessel "Rainbow Warrior" in the Auckland Harbour. Similarly, international politics can stain the relationship due to ANZUS treaty, nuclear warships, Vietnam, Afganistan etc, you name it. Most New Zealanders are open-minded, I believe and take people at face value. Any foreign arrogance, wrongly or rightly perceived, however, is not well-tolerated. As a small nation, being humble is seen as a virtue. 
Most New Zealanders are educated in just one language (English) and some aren't very tolerant of foreign accents. Asian immigrants can find it difficult settling in here, as often "New Zealand experience" is stated as a prerequisite for employment. Some New Zealand employers are rather dim-witted in my view as a well-travelled ex-pat, that they don't realise the extra value that a worldly employee may bring to their workforce.


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## MrsRose

toojoon said:


> I want to say something about New Zealand attitudes towards U.S. citizens and other immigrants. SOME New Zealanders have long memories and don't forget history. Some are narrow-minded. They might dislike or keep at a distrustful distance French people because once French saboteaurs blew up the Greenpeace vessel "Rainbow Warrior" in the Auckland Harbour. Similarly, international politics can stain the relationship due to ANZUS treaty, nuclear warships, Vietnam, Afganistan etc, you name it. Most New Zealanders are open-minded, I believe and take people at face value. Any foreign arrogance, wrongly or rightly perceived, however, is not well-tolerated. As a small nation, being humble is seen as a virtue.
> Most New Zealanders are educated in just one language (English) and some aren't very tolerant of foreign accents. Asian immigrants can find it difficult settling in here, as often "New Zealand experience" is stated as a prerequisite for employment. Some New Zealand employers are rather dim-witted in my view as a well-travelled ex-pat, that they don't realise the extra value that a worldly employee may bring to their workforce.


My husbadn plans on getting any NZ certifications/registrations he needs before he applies for jobs. Do you think this will help his chances of being hired?


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## Song_Si

toojoon said:


> SOME New Zealanders have long memories and don't forget history. Some are narrow-minded. They might dislike or keep at a distrustful distance French people . . .


just some light humour . . . 

not because of the Rainbow Warrior any more - it's because they have the best record of beating the All Blacks at rugby!

Have you seen the pictures of English football fans with their banners: _"Stand Up If You Hate The French"_ at Euro 2012? Long memories, indeed. Freedom Fries?

As for forgetting history - is that a good thing? But keeping it in perspective, is.


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## topcat83

carosapien said:


> .... I'd forgotten how cheap it was to eat out a massive ploughmans and streak and ale pie for 8 quid. Simple pleasures but, it's amazing how we took them for granted.


Yip - you've just hit on a few things we do miss. I find the cheapest pub/bar/hotel drink prices in Auckland more expensive than the cheapest we could get in London - but we did frequent Wetherspoons quite a lot  Ditto food - but probably for the same reason.


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## topcat83

Song_Si said:


> just some light humour . . .
> 
> not because of the Rainbow Warrior any more - it's because they have the best record of beating the All Blacks at rugby!
> 
> Have you seen the pictures of English football fans with their banners: _"Stand Up If You Hate The French"_ at Euro 2012? Long memories, indeed. Freedom Fries?
> 
> As for forgetting history - is that a good thing? But keeping it in perspective, is.


Lol! For many an Englishman it's a rivalry that goes back further than the Rainbow Warrior or the latest Rugby World Cup! It goes back to Agincourt! The French are the historical 'enemy' albeit a bit tongue in cheek now. And similarly, as the English back the opposition in any France/XXX match, the Scottish back their old 'allies' the French (and of course they always back England's opposition too).

Put it down to the similar rivalry between NZ and Oz.


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## carosapien

toojoon said:


> I want to say something about New Zealand attitudes towards U.S. citizens and other immigrants. SOME New Zealanders have long memories and don't forget history. Some are narrow-minded. They might dislike or keep at a distrustful distance French people because once French saboteaurs blew up the Greenpeace vessel "Rainbow Warrior" in the Auckland Harbour. Similarly, international politics can stain the relationship due to ANZUS treaty, nuclear warships, Vietnam, Afganistan etc, you name it. Most New Zealanders are open-minded, I believe and take people at face value. Any foreign arrogance, wrongly or rightly perceived, however, is not well-tolerated. As a small nation, being humble is seen as a virtue.
> Most New Zealanders are educated in just one language (English) and some aren't very tolerant of foreign accents. Asian immigrants can find it difficult settling in here, as often "New Zealand experience" is stated as a prerequisite for employment. Some New Zealand employers are rather dim-witted in my view as a well-travelled ex-pat, that they don't realise the extra value that a worldly employee may bring to their workforce.


That may be because they are humble and worldly people make them feel a bit inadequate? I know folk who've lived in the North Island all their lives and haven't even been as far as the South Island, never had a passport or any inclination to travel. Their world starts and ends in New Zealand and whilst they're friendly enough have trouble identifying with outsiders.


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## anski

carosapien said:


> That may be because they are humble and worldly people make them feel a bit inadequate? I know folk who've lived in the North Island all their lives and haven't even been as far as the South Island, never had a passport or any inclination to travel. Their world starts and ends in New Zealand and whilst they're friendly enough have trouble identifying with outsiders.


Yes true but the vast majority of both Kiwi's & Aussies travel a lot.

Also there's a lot of American that never travel, & in the UK my brother's 80 year old neighbour had had one trip in his life & that was to Stratford on Avon (8 miles away), he was supposed to stay a week but after 2 days decided he did not like it so hopped on his bike & pedalled home. I suppose you would call him one of the Eccentric English.


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## Weta

anski said:


> I would iot call them tornadoes.
> 
> We have strong gusts of winds from time to time. We live close to the water & one bad storm ripped a portion of a picket fence out & tossed it across the road, mind you the fence was very old & rotten so it did us a favour. I put it on trademe for $1 & people bid it up to $150!


There have been a few tornados since I lived here which have taken people's roofs off their hosues and blown down power cables and trees. This one happened only last year 200km/ph wind

Weather warnings lifted after Albany tornado wreaks havoc; one dead - National - NZ Herald News


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## Song_Si

anski said:


> Also there's a lot of American that never travel


the lowest percentage of passport holders of any developed nation: 30%. Just an indicator, though why have a passport if you're not going to use it?



> CNN February 2011
> The numbers tell the story: Of the 308 million-plus citizens in the United States, 30% have passports.
> That's just too low for such an affluent country, said Bruce Bommarito, executive vice president and chief operating officer for the U.S. Travel Association.
> "Americans are comfortable in their own environment," Bommarito said.
> 
> Despite the climbing number of American passports in circulation, 30% is still low compared to Canada's 60% and the United Kingdom's 75%.


half full, half empty?
comfortable in their own environment - or uncomfortable in any other environment?


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## MrsRose

Song_Si said:


> the lowest percentage of passport holders of any developed nation: 30%. Just an indicator, though why have a passport if you're not going to use it?
> 
> 
> 
> half full, half empty?
> comfortable in their own environment - or uncomfortable in any other environment?


I think for many Americans, it's probably a little of both. It's easy to get really comfortable in American life. 
Here in the States, we can go our whole lives without ever learning another language, or being exposed to any other culture, and be totally content with that. I'm afraid this may be the culprit behind the attitude of "superiority and super-patriotism" some Americans carry with them. 

But I suppose this can apply to anyone, from any country as well. It's a human thing to desire to stay in your comfort zone and routine.


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## Beefhooked

Better of in LA, I mean just look at the state of the place as the exodus to Australia continues, 40,000 in the past 12 months, with only a trickle coming back the other way and what was it 55, 000 last year? 

Aussie, aussie, aussie, oi oi oi-------------)


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> Better of in LA, I mean just look at the state of the place as the exodus to Australia continues, 40,000 in the past 12 months, with only a trickle coming back the other way and what was it 55, 000 last year?
> 
> Aussie, aussie, aussie, oi oi oi-------------)


Not everyone wants to live in LA. You really did have a bad experience in NZ didnt you. Horses for courses. Post more constructive reasons tho, its more helpful !

Jo xxx


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## Beefhooked

I'm back here at the moment trying to wind up the family biz in Dargaville & things are a bit economicaly dismal, don't get me wrong I love the country & people, its just the bureaucrats have perfected a policy of stuffing things up with mind boggling sets of rules and regulations that seem to gush from a giant beehive shaped jargon generator.

Check it out, not sure of how it stands now, but I seem to remember a guiness world record for the amount of legislation created by a western democracy! So there you have it, inovation, employment & opportunity killed off by constraints and compliance.


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> I'm back here at the moment trying to wind up the family biz in Dargaville & things are a bit economicaly dismal, don't get me wrong I love the country & people, its just the bureaucrats have perfected a policy of stuffing things up with mind boggling sets of rules and regulations that seem to gush from a giant beehive shaped jargon generator.
> 
> Check it out, not sure of how it stands now, but I seem to remember a guiness world record for the amount of legislation created by a western democracy! So there you have it, inovation, employment & opportunity killed off by constraints and compliance.


Your last paragraph sounds like Europe (in particular Spain) to me lol!! Thats the thing, the world is a place where every country has its issues. You simply have to find one that has the best criteria (rules, climate, language, religion...) to suit. And cos we're all individuals, we all like and want different things. But everywhere has its "negatives" and ridiculous rules!!

Thats why one person angrily "slagging off" a country cos they dont/didnt like it isnt constructive. And lets not forget, where someone comes from also plays a huge part in their feelings towards another country and their expectations. Thats why forums such as these are so useful in factfinding

Jo xxx


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## Beefhooked

Look I can assure you its got a great deal worse of the past 25 years that I've been doing business here, I'm not one person slagging off a country,( I've recently found several other sites dedicated to just that) its just an observation that paper pushers in NZ are trend setting world record holders, the statistics I've posted re kiwis fleeing to Australia are an indicator of the lack of real opportunities here, google away if you need proof.


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> Look I can assure you its got a great deal worse of the past 25 years that I've been doing business here, I'm not one person slagging off a country,( I've recently found several other sites dedicated to just that) its just an observation that paper pushers in NZ are trend setting world record holders, the statistics I've posted re kiwis fleeing to Australia are an indicator of the lack of real opportunities here, google away if you need proof.


Google Europe if you wanna see real craziness!! You have had a bad experience, based on your wishes, desires, expectations and lifestyle. It didnt work for you and for that I'm sorry. Nonetheless, your experiences are yours. The best way you can help others is to make sure they know (without the anger) the pitfalls you fell into, the reasons it didnt work for you - but not just angry rantings!

Just remember there are so many reasons why people want to move to Newzealand or anywhere else, they may not be the reasons that you moved and their expectations may not be the same. But do keep this forum away from the slagging off kind. This is an information forum, with as many facts and experiences as is possible. Its not here for people to simply moan. In fact a good point is that I've read your posts and havent a clue why it didnt work for you, just that you're posts are angry rants! - Be informative and polite on here. Anger is for other places 

So no more rants, just constructive, objective criticism. thanks

Jo xxx


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## Song_Si

On the old subjects of NZers moving to Australia - article in today's news stating "70 per cent of job hunters returning home within a year. "

and the Australian 2011 Census results released during the week 



> The results of the 2011 Australian census, released yesterday, show that the number of New Zealanders living there reached 483,000 last year, up from 390,000 in 2006.


in 5 years the NZ population there has increased by 93,000. Bears out the earlier statement of most not staying; 55,000 were reported as moving there last year. Half may already have moved back to NZ or to another country.



> The top five immigrant groups across the nation are the English-born (4.49 per cent of the Australian population), the New Zealander-born (2.38 per cent), the Chinese (1.57 per cent), the Indians (1.45 per cent) and the Italians (0.91 per cent).
> The Australian


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## Beefhooked

jojo said:


> Google Europe if you wanna see real craziness!! You have had a bad experience, based on your wishes, desires, expectations and lifestyle. It didnt work for you and for that I'm sorry. Nonetheless, your experiences are yours. The best way you can help others is to make sure they know (without the anger) the pitfalls you fell into, the reasons it didnt work for you - but not just angry rantings!
> 
> Just remember there are so many reasons why people want to move to Newzealand or anywhere else, they may not be the reasons that you moved and their expectations may not be the same. But do keep this forum away from the slagging off kind. This is an information forum, with as many facts and experiences as is possible. Its not here for people to simply moan. In fact a good point is that I've read your posts and havent a clue why it didnt work for you, just that you're posts are angry rants! - Be informative and polite on here. Anger is for other places
> 
> So no more rants, just constructive, objective criticism. thanks
> 
> Jo xxx


Sorry for pulling stats off the newswire and posting them, I'm not angry, thats just the way it is....more kiwis are moving to Australia than Aussies are comming to NZ.

No more cut and paste replies please , just constructive, objective criticism. thanks


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> Sorry for pulling stats off the newswire and posting them, I'm not angry, thats just the way it is....more kiwis are moving to Australia than Aussies are comming to NZ.
> 
> No more cut and paste replies please , just constructive, objective criticism. thanks


I never read stats, you can find stats to prove anything you like - there are even forums and stats proving that the earth is flat!!!

You havent explained your displeasure of NZ other than you feel that NZers are all moving to Oz, you loved the place but it was expensive compared to what you were used to and it was like a prison where you could go fishing at weekends. Not sure that these opinions are constructive to wannabe expats lol!!!! Like I keep saying, "horses for courses" 

Jo xxx


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## Beefhooked

jojo said:


> I never read stats, you can find stats to prove anything you like - there are even forums and stats proving that the earth is flat!!!
> 
> You havent explained your displeasure of NZ other than you feel that NZers are all moving to Oz, you loved the place but it was expensive compared to what you were used to and it was like a prison where you could go fishing at weekends. Not sure that these opinions are constructive to wannabe expats lol!!!! Like I keep saying, "horses for courses"
> 
> Jo xxx


Now you're just being silly..forums & stats to prove the world flat!!! please

And you've missed out the comment about business being over regulated and compliance issues being a disincentive, for me anyway,to continue trying to make a living here. Sorry but the world is not always.."happy smiling people holding hands":ranger:

Check out this NZ Herald article about Justice in the Firing Line


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## jojo

Beefhooked said:


> Now you're just being silly..forums & stats to prove the world flat!!! please


I kid you not!



> And you've missed out the comment about business being over regulated and compliance issues being a disincentive, for me anyway,to continue trying to make a living here.


You wanna try and set up a business in Spain, its complicated, costly and expensive - and incredibly slow - and thats if you're Spanish!

Jo xxx


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## MrsRose

Ive heard that much of the recent migration from New Zealand to Australia is due in part to the major earthquakes in Chch. (You know, people just being tired of dealing with earthquakes, or leaving because their homes were devastated or destroyed in the quakes.) 

And I'll bet many of those who leave New Zealand are young people right? Young people leaving to study abroad, or experience other places and other cultures?


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## jawnbc

All sounds like specious reasoning to me: linking bureaucracy to mass migration.

Even if there's a correlation--a real, statistical one, not a "I read two articles and drew my own conclusions" one--that's no evidence of causation.

So go to Australia mate!


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## Weta

MrsRose said:


> Ive heard that much of the recent migration from New Zealand to Australia is due in part to the major earthquakes in Chch. (You know, people just being tired of dealing with earthquakes, or leaving because their homes were devastated or destroyed in the quakes.)
> 
> And I'll bet many of those who leave New Zealand are young people right? Young people leaving to study abroad, or experience other places and other cultures?


It has been most recently due in part to Christchurch situation however lets not forget we are talking net migration after offsetting those that have arrived. Despite many leaving many will have arrived in Chch expecting to find work on the rebuild. 

Many like yourself naturally try to gloss over it and find alternative reasoning for it but it is a big issue and all very carefully monitored. It would be foolhardy to deny the stats on this. Here's an interesting article on the places most effected.

Country Kiwis take off to Oz - National - NZ Herald News

How desperate does it get when they are now talking about ways of controlling or restricting the numbers of people that leave.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10811007


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## anski

I do not take all these NZ-AUSTRALIA departures seriously.

Despite what the media reports or the government statistics publish for the simple reasons

1) They are not accurate simply because they are based on the details provided by departing passengers completing the mandatory departure card 
which looks like this

You will have to cut & paste this to view it.

http://www2.stats.govt.nz/domino/external/quest/sddquest.nsf/12df43879eb9b25e4c256809001ee0fe/9226dae2ca1cf9564c2569650002caeb/$FILE/NZ%20Passenger%20Departure%20Card%20-%20August%202010.pdf

So anybody who ticks the wrong box or thinks they are leaving NZ permanently (then returns) affects the numbers.

I have made so many departures over the years (ticking the box permanently) then decided to return 

The reasons so many young people leave is


Wanting to see the world beyond NZ

Wanting to gain overseas work experience (give them a boost up the ladder when they return)

Desire to earn enough money to pay off their student loans.



If the NZ government introduced a student loan debt reducing scheme it may help in keeping graduates here.

My friend's eldest son has just graduated as a Doctor after 6 years at University he now has a student loan of $150,000 to repay. Ouch

As a new graduate his salary is not very large either,& after income tax, student loan repayments & living expenses there's not a lot left.

If he wants to marry & start a family on one income it's hard.

If he decides to continue studying to become a specialist then his loan will climb higher.

It's not rocket science, if the government helped him repay his debt by reducing a % off his student loan debt for each year he remained working at his profession in New Zealand we might have less brain drain.


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## inhamilton

Weta said:


> Many like yourself naturally try to gloss over it and find alternative reasoning for it but it is a big issue and all very carefully monitored. It would be foolhardy to deny the stats on this. Here's an interesting article on the places most effected.


At the same time though, NZ for the past 10 years or so has had a net migration increase due to new skilled migrants (ie more people are coming to live here than leaving). The population of the country has increased markedly in that time. It is my opinion that NZ actually ends up with a net skills upgrade due to migration. Any kiwi can go from NZ to Australia (including unskilled) but generally only the skilled can get into NZ from other countries.


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## anski

inhamilton said:


> At the same time though, NZ for the past 10 years or so has had a net migration increase due to new skilled migrants (ie more people are coming to live here than leaving). The population of the country has increased markedly in that time. It is my opinion that NZ actually ends up with a net skills upgrade due to migration. Any kiwi can go from NZ to Australia (including unskilled) but generally only the skilled can get into NZ from other countries.


 prices 

That is exactly true. 

The ever increasing property prices in Auckland are due to new arrivals & Kiwis returning home.


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## inhamilton

anski said:


> prices
> 
> That is exactly true.
> 
> The ever increasing property prices in Auckland are due to new arrivals & Kiwis returning home.


Good point. The population has increased from just under 3.5 million in 1990, just under 4 million in 2000, to just under 4.5 million today, hardly indicative of some sort of mass exodus. It would be foolhardy to deny those stats too.


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## MrsRose

Weta said:


> Many like yourself naturally try to gloss over it and find alternative reasoning for it but it is a big issue and all very carefully monitored. It would be foolhardy to deny the stats on this. Here's an interesting article on the places most effected.



There was no "glossing over" about anything I asked. It was a genuine, and valid question.

Here on this particular thread, it was being suggested that mass migration from NZ to Aussie was due to lack of opportunity in NZ. I was simply asking about the validity of other possible reasons for some of the migration. 

I think many "like myself" are simply more interested in balanced views and facts, not just statistics. Many like myself do not live in New Zealand, but are considering making it our new home, and in the interest of making the most educated decision possible, we naturally will ask questions and investigated many different perspectives.


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## inhamilton

inhamilton said:


> At the same time though, NZ for the past 10 years or so has had a net migration increase due to new skilled migrants (ie more people are coming to live here than leaving). The population of the country has increased markedly in that time. It is my opinion that NZ actually ends up with a net skills upgrade due to migration. Any kiwi can go from NZ to Australia (including unskilled) but generally only the skilled can get into NZ from other countries.


Coincidentally, there was something in yesterday's NZ Herald about this very thing, when discussing various perceptions kiwis have about NZ and then comparing them with the actual facts.
No baby boom and fewer sheep: Myths busted - National - NZ Herald News

There's a brain drain: FICTION
On average over the past 15 years we've (NZ) lost 300 labourers a year, and net losses of most other unskilled groups, but we've gained 1570 professionals a year because of our skills-based immigration policy.


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## topcat83

An extremely corny but well-known quote from Robert Muldoon (who was not known for being politically correct)

_"Every New Zealander who moves to Australia increases the average IQ of both countries"_


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## Sarahhh

Hey everyone! First post!! Right I'm definitely going to be moving to new Zealand in the near future. Need to qualify as a nurse, get my 2-3 years experience and I'm away!! Just a little question... Immigrating to new Zealand on my own.. Any tips??  cheers!!


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## toojoon

Think about which part of the country you'd like to live in and find out more. You have time on your hand to do the research!


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## Scoojez

inhamilton said:


> Coincidentally, there was something in yesterday's NZ Herald about this very thing, when discussing various perceptions kiwis have about NZ and then comparing them with the actual facts.
> No baby boom and fewer sheep: Myths busted - National - NZ Herald News
> 
> There's a brain drain: FICTION
> On average over the past 15 years we've (NZ) lost 300 labourers a year, and net losses of most other unskilled groups, but we've gained 1570 professionals a year because of our skills-based immigration policy.


Labourers and unskilled workers are considered outside the 'brain drain' in New Zealand? My husband CHOSE to return to his trade after a decade as an executive manager. Why? Because he finds great enjoyment in creating and designing. I guess his end products are also enjoyed by the 'brains' of this world.


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## isellpower

MrsRose said:


> There is no "perfect" place to live on earth, and I'm sure there are hits and misses along the way.


You haven't lived in Austin Texas. Heavenly is all that can be said.....................


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## isellpower

anski said:


> NZ provides free public hospital care for all, & even provide free emergency health care to visitors from certain countries yet I would not even get a free band aid in America.
> My American friend received emergency room treatment here for free when he had a stroke, he was amazed they did not ask for any payment. Tell me where this would happen in America?


Really,
Millions of Mexican Immigrants literally run across the border to have their children in the U.S. The hospital knows they are illegal and will not refuse service knowing full well that they won't pay a dime. After the baby is born it is now a full U.S. citizen and the illegal mother is now given full welfare benefits for the child (food, housing, cash, medical, etc.) and not pay a dime. Not trying to start an argument, but if your friend had a stroke in the U.S. they would have most definitely treated him. Sure, he may have gotten a bill, but never would have paid it. I am from Romania and even I know what you say is not true at all.


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## isellpower

Song_Si said:


> the lowest percentage of passport holders of any developed nation: 30%. Just an indicator, though why have a passport if you're not going to use it?
> 
> 
> 
> half full, half empty?
> comfortable in their own environment - or uncomfortable in any other environment?


In case you haven't looked in a while the U.S. is HUGE. Compared to NZ, England, etc., it's a behemoth. Coming from Eastern Europe we couldn't believe how big it was. Also, don't forget Alaska and Puerto Rico. Also, a passport for Canada or Mexico was not needed for a long time. I thought we would miss traveling from small country to small country. However, in the U.S. traveling from state to state is sometimes similar. Shoot, we were visiting New York City and then traveled to Up-State New York. You could have told me we were on another continent and I would have believed it. Compare California to Missouri and Montana to Texas and you would swear they were on different continents. I have seen most all of Europe and don't care to ever see it again. As hard as I try I won't be able to see all that the States has to offer. If you think that NZ has some scenery, try Alaska. There is nothing close to it on the planet. Unfortunately, it is so cold it made the mountains of Romania seems like a Mediterranean resort.


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## MrsRose

It's true that you can receive emergency care in the US no matter who you are. But _someone_ has to pay for it.
If you receive medical care and just decide not to pay your bill, that puts you in debt. And your bill will be paid for...either by us taxpayers, or it will work itself out in everyone else's insurance premiums and cost of medical care going up.


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## USAGary

MrsRose said:


> It's true that you can receive emergency care in the US no matter who you are. But _someone_ has to pay for it.


Thank goodness for the Affordable Care Act that the USA President Obama fought conservatives to enact (and is still fighting years after it became law - even the conservative nominee for Pres. in the upcoming election vows to tear it down) which he championed to finally address this issue you raise! Conservatives and the multinational corporate moneysucker entities created the only FOR PROFIT healthcare system in a major country in the USA and it was high time to stop the over-charging the corps do to line their pockets with tax-payer money.

:clap2:

:focus:

I have great respect for the NZ way and hopefully the government in Wellington can be encouraged to do the same thing and fight corp takeover. That's a good reason for "wanting to move to New Zealand."


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## Emski

I would like to say, for all those people out there , who are thinking of coming to NZ, to ignore most of what has been said by the rather negative Rodgerdodger...it eems that their first big mistake was moving here without the prospect of a job and then assuming you would ick one up straight away...jobs are hard to find whichever country you live in....so my only advise is get a job before you come...unless you're happy to work in bars etc.....More to the point this country is fantastic. We relocated from th uk with my young family last year, we had to makethe effort to create ourselves a social network, but that was not difficult as veryone here are so friendly, the kids have settled in the schools without any grief and we have learnt to shop according to the seasons...of course there are things here that cost mors than back in the uk but you find an alternative or go without...life isvery easy and relaxed out here and although there are aspects of the uk that I miss I would never want to go back there to live...NewZealand rocks...literally at times...but that just add to the adventure...that is all...


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## Emski

Emski said:


> I would like to say, for all those people out there , who are thinking of coming to NZ, to ignore most of what has been said by the rather negative Rodgerdodger...it eems that their first big mistake was moving here without the prospect of a job and then assuming you would ick one up straight away...jobs are hard to find whichever country you live in....so my only advise is get a job before you come...unless you're happy to work in bars etc.....More to the point this country is fantastic. We relocated from th uk with my young family last year, we had to makethe effort to create ourselves a social network, but that was not difficult as veryone here are so friendly, the kids have settled in the schools without any grief and we have learnt to shop according to the seasons...of course there are things here that cost mors than back in the uk but you find an alternative or go without...life isvery easy and relaxed out here and although there are aspects of the uk that I miss I would never want to go back there to live...NewZealand rocks...literally at times...but that just add to the adventure...that is all...


Apologies for the spelling...my keyboard needs cleaning from the kids sticky fingers...lol


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## bdl123

Sarahhh said:


> Hey everyone! First post!! Right I'm definitely going to be moving to new Zealand in the near future. Need to qualify as a nurse, get my 2-3 years experience and I'm away!! Just a little question... Immigrating to new Zealand on my own.. Any tips??  cheers!!


Minimum of 2-3yrs away....u mite be married with 2 kids by then so any tips on emigrating alone may be useless lol 😄

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Lunda28

dodgerodger said:


> I was actually able to escape New Zealand not too long ago after spending 4 years trying to make New Zealand work for our family.
> I moved back to Los Angeles after living in the south island of New Zealand.
> 
> The reason I seem to be rather negative is because New Zealand was a negative experience for us and yes we were in New Zealand against our will as we spent all our savings trying to make it work and when we finally admitted to ourselves that NZ just isnt what we imagined it to be OR what our immigration advisers had told us and what people on forums like this had said it was like; we were basically penniless.
> 
> As odd as it seems I am actually trying to bring balance to this forum; and it is not my fault if you immigrate to New Zealand and suffer the same fate as I did because I did tell you exactly how things are not sugarcoating anything.
> 
> MrsRose you and your husband from what I can tell from your previous posts will most definitely end up disliking New Zealand; unless you MrsRose can get a nice paying fulltime job in New Zealand (which in this economy is not likely) you will need to switch your diet to eat more 'normal kiwi' things.
> You will end up resenting the fact that you cannot afford to take trips to go skiing; camping etc because gas prices are extremely high for your vehicle and you just got hit with a $400 power bill for the month because you didnt want to freeze to death in the winter OR be cooked alive in your house in the summertime.
> 
> By all means please sell your house; move all your possessions halfway across the globe; say goodbye to all your friends and family and come live in New Zealand and if it doesnt work out then you just cut your losses and move back home to America with your tails between your legs.
> 
> OR
> 
> You could spend a little bit extra and come to New Zealand on a holiday to see if it living in New Zealand would in fact fit in with your life style and means BUT bear in mind that you will be treated completely different as a tourist like many before you have found out.
> 
> There is a reason why thousands of kiwis leave New Zealand every year and will continue doing so; it is because New Zealand is pretty much a 3rd world country compared to countries like the US, Canada and the UK and its political policies continue to keep it this way.
> 
> I am at a loss to why you would want to move to a country like New Zealand MrsRose; is America really THAT bad? I moved when the economy tanked and I lost my job; I didn't even bother looking in other states for work but the economy is getting better in America where as in New Zealand it is getting worse.
> 
> 
> I would hope this post is not deleted but this post might clash with the views of the advertisers.


Hello Dodgerodger,

I perfectly understand that you can be disappointed by your experience in New Zealand. There is sometimes a real gap between expectations and reality. But, I still wonder why some people as you do too, talk about NZ like a third world country. Since I spent the first part of my life in a "real" developing (poor) country and after that traveled to and lived in several western developed countries (Europe and North America), it is quiet difficult for me to really understand this comparison. Could you make it clearer for me please? 

Thanks!


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