# Unemployment stats



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hi there,
someone somewhere asked me where I got the figures that appear in my signature, but it was in the middle of a thread about something else and I can-t track it down, but whoever that person was was right in that I should provide a link to the info. It-s surprisingly difficult to get simple numbers, and I haven-t yet found the map that I got the signature info from, but I-ve just found this which is interesting
Mapas del paro EPA: frenazo en el avance de la marea del paro (infografía)
It seems to work that you click on the maps and it goes small, click again and it gets big

BTW My aim in posting this information is merely so that people have an idea of what employment is really like in Spain. I-m not trying to put people off coming, or to depress anyone, just give people information as reported in the Spanish press


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

... but what about all the people who can't get paro - must be thousands (millions)!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... but what about all the people who can't get paro - must be thousands (millions)!


they can & should still register, though of course there's no way of knowing how many should have & haven't


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Here is the info in my signature, although here the lowest is Guipuzkoa at 13.41%. Please note there are 2 pages of information
Tasa de Paro en las Provincias de Espa?a, seg?n la EPA (09/2014) - Classora Knowledge Base


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> ... but what about all the people who can't get paro - must be thousands (millions)!


I read that paro only lasts about two years and when it has run out they are no longer counted in the unemployment figures.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isobella said:


> I read that paro only lasts about two years and when it has run out they are no longer counted in the unemployment figures.


Unemployment benefit lasts for around 2 years, but if you-re unemployed, you-re unemployed, that status doesn-t stop existing. However, most people do not carry on @signing [email protected] or whatever it is you-re supposed to do because there is little to be gained from it. The occasional course run by sepe, but no money and little prospect of a job offer. The government doesn-t encourage it obviously because it doesn-t favour them to have more people fattening up the lists


----------



## Claire la richarde (Jul 6, 2009)

For figures including those not receiving unemployment benefits, it might be worth looking at the EU Labour Force Survey Introduction

Its definition of unemployed people is those persons age 15 to 74 who are not working, have looked for work in the last four weeks, and ready to start work within two weeks, and this conforms with the International Labour Organisation standard. (So those not seeking work, for whatever reason, are in another category described at "inactive".)


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Isobella said:


> I read that paro only lasts about two years and when it has run out they are no longer counted in the unemployment figures.


I read in a newsheet that people who have never been employed, school-leavers etc. also do not figure in the unemployment stats.

_'Lies, damn lies, and statistics'_


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Unemployment benefit lasts for around 2 years, but if you-re unemployed, you-re unemployed, that status doesn-t stop existing. However, most people do not carry on @signing [email protected] or whatever it is you-re supposed to do because there is little to be gained from it. The occasional course run by sepe, but no money and little prospect of a job offer. The government doesn-t encourage it obviously because it doesn-t favour them to have more people fattening up the lists


Are people in receipt of the €426 per month salario social for those whose entitlement to paro has run out counted in the unemployment statistics? I have read that an additional €50 per month (approx, can't remember the exact figure) can be claimed for up to 3 dependent family members if there is no income going into the household. It's a very, very low amount for a family to have to survive on, but not quite as bad as the impression a lot of people have that there is absolutely nothing available to people once their paro has run out. I know that not everyone is able to claim the salario social, though.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lynn R said:


> Are people in receipt of the €426 per month salario social for those whose entitlement to paro has run out counted in the unemployment statistics? I have read that an additional €50 per month (approx, can't remember the exact figure) can be claimed for up to 3 dependent family members if there is no income going into the household. It's a very, very low amount for a family to have to survive on, but not quite as bad as the impression a lot of people have that there is absolutely nothing available to people once their paro has run out. I know that not everyone is able to claim the salario social, though.


So someone who has never had a job after leaving school/university or an expat who can't find work here are (a) not included in the stats and (b) can't get any help at all. 

So what is the point in 'signing on'???????????


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> So someone who has never had a job after leaving school/university or an expat who can't find work here are (a) not included in the stats and (b) can't get any help at all.
> 
> So what is the point in 'signing on'???????????


Not a lot, obviously. But for an expat\immigrant who can't find work not to be able to get any help at all is precisely what a lot of people in the UK seem to want to happen there.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

It's nothing to do with what the UK thinks the few Spanish I know say many get nothing.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> So someone who has never had a job after leaving school/university or an expat who can't find work here are (a) not included in the stats and (b) can't get any help at all.
> 
> So what is the point in 'signing on'???????????


I think there is some minimal help for young people who have never worked, based on my daughter-s boyfriend, but I don-t think it-s long term.
Sorry about the punctuation, having keyboard problems.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> It's nothing to do with what the UK thinks the few Spanish I know say many get nothing.


Like I said, I know not everyone is entitled to the salario social. For example, if there were previously two working adults in a household and they both lost their jobs, once their entitlement to paro has run out only one of them can claim the salario social. The eligibility criteria may very well be different in different regions, and I'm sure the claims process will be very slow too, with people left waiting for months before they receive anything. But these are the requirements in Andalucia, for example:-

Portal de Igualdad, Salud y Políticas Sociales

There are a lot of households around me where nobody has a job, but they do at least receive this payment. The system for checking up on them is quite strict, they get a call (on random dates) telling them to present themselves at the Social Security office with their papers at an hour's notice (literally). If they miss their appointment, their benefit is stopped.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks Pesky,

It was me who asked. Thanks.



Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi there,
> someone somewhere asked me where I got the figures that appear in my signature, but it was in the middle of a thread about something else and I can-t track it down, but whoever that person was was right in that I should provide a link to the info. It-s surprisingly difficult to get simple numbers, and I haven-t yet found the map that I got the signature info from, but I-ve just found this which is interesting
> Mapas del paro EPA: frenazo en el avance de la marea del paro (infografía)
> It seems to work that you click on the maps and it goes small, click again and it gets big
> ...


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Frankly, 426€ per month is a damned sight more than I could get in the UK when I was out of work for a few weeks recently, let alone whatever you get on Spain for the first two years.. Having worked continuously for 30yrs without ever claiming a penny, I decided I might as well apply for what I had paid for in all those years. Turned out that was £70/wk - no housing benefit, no council tax benefit, no other income coming into the house whatsoever!

To add insult to injury, as I was in receipt of contribution based JSA, I wasn't even entitled to free dential treatment etc but had I never worked, I would have received non contribution based JSA which would have entitled me to a raft of additional benefits including a free filling at the dentist!

Perhaps the Spanish system is much fairer than the UK system, which only seems to work for those who know how to "work" that system? Otherwise you can forget the much heralded UK "safety net."


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Horlics said:


> Thanks Pesky,
> 
> It was me who asked. Thanks.


Ahh, glad you told me and glad you have now seen this thread


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> Frankly, 426€ per month is a damned sight more than I could get in the UK when I was out of work for a few weeks recently, let alone whatever you get on Spain for the first two years.. Having worked continuously for 30yrs without ever claiming a penny, I decided I might as well apply for what I had paid for in all those years. Turned out that was £70/wk - no housing benefit, no council tax benefit, no other income coming into the house whatsoever!
> 
> To add insult to injury, as I was in receipt of contribution based JSA, I wasn't even entitled to free dential treatment etc but had I never worked, I would have received non contribution based JSA which would have entitled me to a raft of additional benefits including a free filling at the dentist!
> 
> Perhaps the Spanish system is much fairer than the UK system, which only seems to work for those who know how to "work" that system? Otherwise you can forget the much heralded UK "safety net."


Interesting.
Do you know how different it would be if this was your third year out of work as it is in Spain for those who receive the 426 euros_


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Some additional reasons why it might be worth someone's while to sign on as unemployed even if they aren't entitled to paro or it has run out:-

- people are obliged to prove they are out of work in order to be able to access help from food banks and the comedores sociales (we have two in our town), plus clothes banks.
- they have to be registered unemployed in order to be able to apply for the temporary contracts which the Ayuntamiento offers during the year for a few months each time. Malaga City Council advertised a few hundred posts a few weeks ago and received about 5 times as many applications as there were vacancies.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I wonder if this scheme will turn out to be of any help to the long-term unemployed, or not? I am always uneasy about public money being paid to private companies for services like this. From what I have read about similar getting people back to work schemes in the UK, companies have made a lot of money out of it but comparatively few people have found work, especially long term contracts.


Tres mil euros por cada parado de larga duraci?n colocado | Econom?a | EL MUNDO


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

brocher said:


> Frankly, 426€ per month is a damned sight more than I could get in the UK when I was out of work for a few weeks recently, let alone whatever you get on Spain for the first two years.. Having worked continuously for 30yrs without ever claiming a penny, I decided I might as well apply for what I had paid for in all those years. Turned out that was £70/wk - no housing benefit, no council tax benefit, no other income coming into the house whatsoever!
> 
> To add insult to injury, as I was in receipt of contribution based JSA, I wasn't even entitled to free dential treatment etc but had I never worked, I would have received non contribution based JSA which would have entitled me to a raft of additional benefits including a free filling at the dentist!
> 
> Perhaps the Spanish system is much fairer than the UK system, which only seems to work for those who know how to "work" that system? Otherwise you can forget the much heralded UK "safety net."


Is that because you are in Scotland? If not you are wrong, anyone can claim HB if their income is low enough also Council tax, even if they are working. My friend is Manager of a CAB. You should have taken advice or taken a quick glance on the internet.


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Interesting.
> Do you know how different it would be if this was your third year out of work as it is in Spain for those who receive the 426 euros_


I fully understand the state of the crisis in Spain and the desperate situation for some families. However, on £280/mth from the first day of uneployment it wouldn't take. Ery long for anyone in the UK with only moderate savings to be in a very desperate position. I believe the first two years of benefits in Spain are a little more generous.

What really irked me was finding that as I HAD paid NI contributions, I didn't even qualify for a free filling whereas someone who had never worked did!!


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Isobella said:


> Is that because you are in Scotland? If not you are wrong, anyone can claim HB if their income is low enough also Council tax, even if they are working. My friend is Manager of a CAB. You should have taken advice or taken a quick glance on the internet.


What a spectacularly rude post, Isabella. I can assure you I have the intelligence to "take a quick glance on the Internet" as well as checking many other resources. I won't bother to comment on how useless CSB are.

Perhaps you should take a look at the Governments own benefit calculator. Regardless of having not a penny income, if you have even a very modest sum in the bank, you get no housing benefit, no council tax benefit, no anything barring £70/wk, not even a free filling from the dentist - unless of course you have never worked a day in your life. 

With no income and only £280/mth many hardworking people would be in some pretty serious debt, including rent/ mortgage arrears, just trying to eat and pay the bills out of savings, before the other benefits kicked in.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Why is it rude, aside from paying for a filling anyone with a low income can claim HB and council tax benefit. It's all there on the internet...sorry:tape:


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> I fully understand the state of the crisis in Spain and the desperate situation for some families.
> I didn-t question your understanding of the situation in Spain
> 
> However, on £280/mth from the first day of uneployment it wouldn't take. Ery long for anyone in the UK with only moderate savings to be in a very desperate position.
> ...


And my question was genuine and wasn-t answered... Dare I ask again...

Do you know how different it would be if this was your third year out of work as it is in Spain for those who receive the 426 euros_


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Why is it rude, aside from paying for a filling anyone with a low income can claim HB and council tax benefit. It's all there on the internet...sorry:tape:


Well I've got to agree with Brocher. My wife was told in writing that she had no entitlement to anything with savings of 5k & additionally this theoretical £100/week was classed as sufficient to live on !!!

P.S You don't get the 70 quid either if you were self-employed !


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I stand by what I posted and it is not being rude. Of course if you are living with a partner then their earnings are taken into account, rightly so.

Welfare Rights: Benefits Guides


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Isobella said:


> I stand by what I posted and it is not being rude. Of course if you are living with a partner then their earnings are taken into account, rightly so.
> 
> Welfare Rights: Benefits Guides


Can we stop this 'sniping' please.

What was deemed rude was your comment;



> You should have taken advice or taken a quick glance on the internet.


They were passing comments based on their experience (facts) so this can't be argued against!

Perhaps the rules are interpreted differently depending where you live - I can't understand this because, unlike in Spain, the rules seem clear and are not open to interpretation.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Isobela,

Just wanting to help clarify something....

I have no income (I am unemployed) and I cannot claim any HB, council tax, or any other kind of benefit. 

The reason is because I have some assets. The benefits system will not pay out to people who have more than a certain amount of wealth, which I think is what another poster tried to explain.

This is explained on the link you gave.

It is therefore not accurate to say that anyone with a low income can claim HB.



Isobella said:


> ...anyone with a low income can claim HB and council tax benefit. It's all there on the internet...sorry:tape:


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Isobela,
> 
> Just wanting to help clarify something....
> 
> ...


That is very true. My OH could well be in the same position were she in the UK. If you have a six-figure sum invested,your actual income even including SRP will be be fairly low. After all, 4 or%% return on £100 after tax will net you less than £4000 per annum - £300 a month. Add to the SRP and you get the princely sum of around £800 a month.
But you are not entitled to any benefits as you are deemed to have 'assets'.
So after years of prudent provision for retirement some folk might just as well have forgotten about saving and blown the lot on riotous living.
And you can't just draw on your savings as many schemes limit the amount you can draw down.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That is very true. My OH could well be in the same position were she in the UK. If you have a six-figure sum invested,your actual income even including SRP will be be fairly low. After all, 4 or%% return on £100 after tax will net you less than £4000 per annum - £300 a month. Add to the SRP and you get the princely sum of around £800 a month.
> But you are not entitled to any benefits as you are deemed to have 'assets'.
> So after years of prudent provision for retirement some folk might just as well have forgotten about saving and blown the lot on riotous living.
> And you can't just draw on your savings as many schemes limit the amount you can draw down.


You're not suggesting that anyone with six-figure assets should be entitled to benefits, surely?


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Isobella said:


> I stand by what I posted and it is not being rude. Of course if you are living with a partner then their earnings are taken into account, rightly so.
> 
> Welfare Rights: Benefits Guides


Isabella, if you read your own link, anyone with savings over just €5000 is unlikely to get HB, and over £16000, you get sod all except £70/ wk job seeker allowance- and that is with no partner, exactly as I said NO INCOME whatsoever.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> You're not suggesting that anyone with six-figure assets should be entitled to benefits, surely?


Look at it this way. You have an asset of £100k cash. It's your pension pot. You've contributed towards it all your working life, maybe forty years. 
I've explained what your income from that pension pot would be at present. so you draw down some cash. Some funds will allow a maximum of £6k taxable draw-down. 
But that diminishes the amount of interest you earn. If you live for say twenty years your pension pot won't last your entire life so you could well end up being reliant on the state. 
What if your asset is your property and your actual income is low? 
£100k is way above the average pension pot, I agree. But some people might think that if they hadn't saved and spent the money on riotous living instead their income from the state in retirement would have been higher than from their savings.

I think there should be more incentive for middle-income earners to save for retirement. The tax system needs reform.


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And my question was genuine and wasn-t answered... Dare I ask again...
> 
> Do you know how different it would be if this was your third year out of work as it is in Spain for those who receive the 426 euros_


Sorry PW, I thought I had answered your question.

My point was that in the UK, I could be receiving just £280/ mth JSA from Day 1 with no other income whatsoever, no housing benefit, no council tax benefit, no anything. I'd be destitute long before I reached year 3, which I think is far worse than the position in Spain, where the payments for the first two years are much higher.

This may be unbelievable when we hear so much about Benefit Britian, but I can assure you, it is the situation for anyone in the UK who becomes unemployed after working for many years, if they are foolish enough to have even very modest savings for their old age- that means savings over £5000' and if you have just £16000 you are well and truly stuffed. 

It seems that Benefit Briatin is much more generous when it comes to those who have never worked. 

The difference, perhaps, is that in Spain there are so, so many people who would like to work but genuinely can't find steady unemployment after many years trying.

PS If anyone is interested, I was out of work for about two weeks! It was a very revealing experience and one I wouldn't wish on anyone who genuinely wants to work, especially those who have worked hard on a realtively low income for many years. A lifetime of being careful and managing some meagre savings could be wiped out in just a few months.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

So telling someone they should have sought advice is rude.  ok I give in. The UK benefits system in rubbish, Spain's system is superior.

Please deactivate my account.


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Isobella said:


> So telling someone they should have sought advice is rude.  ok I give in. The UK benefits system in rubbish, Spain's system is superior.
> 
> Please deactivate my account.


No need to leaves the forum, you're most welcome, but do be careful how you word your posts, just as you would if you joined a new group in person. The same rules apply to manners and etiquette whether in person or on a forum.

I still consider it extremely rude of you to state that " I should have had a glimpse at the internet." 

You do not know me- I did seek advice, I found the REAL facts, I related them on this thread- and as I said, I most certainly have the wit to glimpse at the Internet, and make use of many more professional resources besides.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think I've not made my point well in reply to Alca so I'll try again...tax and pensions are not my strong point, I leave that to Sandra.
Here goes:
currently the majority of working people are not well prepared for retirement. Even with the projected increase the SRP will be insufficient to guarantee a decent standard of living in retirement.
The problems as I see it are basically that wages are too low and the wrong people pay too much tax. The average wage of around £27k is just that, an average, an arithmetical mean. It's not a fortune exactly. And the mode, what most people earn, will be less than that. We all know too that the lowest paid pay proportionately more of their income in tax.
I paid into a fund for the last few years of my working life as I was earning a good salary. I amassed £36k. The return on that after tax is just under £150 a month. Add to the SRP and the total is less than £700 a month. I'm lucky, I have a good FSS pension.
Very few people can afford to save £36k if they are on low incomes. But even if they did, they would currently be better off spending £36k in their last couple of years at work on things they needed for a comfortable life in retirement - a new car, furniture, a holiday even...because the income they'd get from the state would exceed the return on their savings for the foreseeable future.
No, I don't think that people with £100k should get benefits. I'm merely saying that it isn't a vast fortune although I know it's much much more than most people can save. But the whole issue of retirement income needs examining and some fresh thinking is required. I read that in a few years the government is to introduce a scheme whereby every worker must take out a private pension supplemented by the employer.
Sandra wanted to introduce such a scheme for her employees....but not one of the workers showed any interest so the scheme was dropped.
As long as wages are so low, any contribution to any scheme will be limited for the low paid.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> So telling someone they should have sought advice is rude.  ok I give in. The UK benefits system in rubbish, Spain's system is superior.
> 
> Please deactivate my account.


Please don't. I daresay I've offended more people but I'm still here.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> Sorry PW, I thought I had answered your question.
> 
> My point was that in the UK, I could be receiving just £280/ mth JSA from Day 1 with no other income whatsoever, no housing benefit, no council tax benefit, no anything. I'd be destitute long before I reached year 3, which I think is far worse than the position in Spain, where the payments for the first two years are much higher.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that information which is very interesting as I had little idea about how the system works in the UK, and it does seem that reality is different from what we read in the papers.
However, that wasn-t what I was asking about, and I still don-t know how much someone in the UK receives after long term unemployment, not that I expect you to have all the answers - I just wondered


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thank you for that information which is very interesting as I had little idea about how the system works in the UK, and it does seem that reality is different from what we read in the papers.
> However, that wasn-t what I was asking about, and I still don-t know how much someone in the UK receives after long term unemployment, not that I expect you to have all the answers - I just wondered


Ah PW,I understand what you are asking now, though I don't have a definitive answer.


There is info here which suggests benefits could be quite generous for those in long term unemployment, but it's. Ertainly in no way representative of anyone who has been working and had a very meagre amount of savings- 
https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Isobella said:


> So telling someone they should have sought advice is rude.  ok I give in. The UK benefits system in rubbish, Spain's system is superior.
> 
> Please deactivate my account.


Dont you leave us, you're a really good poster!!!!!!! 



mrypg9 said:


> Please don't. I daresay I've offended more people but I'm still here.


....... never  


IMO, the UK benefit system is good, but its far too open to abuse and isnt a bottomless pit. I'd like to see somehow, a way of making it contribution based to a point, and less residents based. The Spanish system is tougherand has helped to create the infamous "black market", but also it makes people tougher and more self dependent and reliant 

Jo xxx


----------



## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

So, about unemployment in Spain...


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


> So, about unemployment in Spain...


Do I remember PW reminding us that even in the 'good' times unemployment was around 8%?

It's stating the bleedin' obvious to say that Spanish unemployment is at root structural rather than cyclical. The economy needs rebalancing...but that requires a massive amount of funding which will initially have to come from government funding or EU funding.

Odd things are happening in our village. We've had a new farmacia, a Chinese shop and a night club/brothel, of all things. Yet a small grocers which I would have thought would have done well as it was at the top of the village near some social housing has closed.
On the A7 nearby a Burger King and new filling station have opened, both doing well...
Some large houses have been bought or rented.

Yet a couple of shops have recently closed and since the end of the season unemployment figures have risen.

I guess we have to remember that 25% are still holding on to jobs, albeit precariously and with pay cuts. It's scarcely surprising that people in Spain are turning their backs on established Parties. I suppose we should be thankful that at least the tide here is for the idealistic Left rather than to the cynical Right as in the UK.


----------



## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Whatever the "official" unemployment figures show, I am quite sure the real numbers out of work are way lower due to huge numbers of Spaniards working black. I know of some from the village near us who consider it their right to claim unemployment benefit for as long as they can get it whilst also working unofficially. You can be sure that if there is a way to fiddle the system then it will be fiddled, it is not just the politicians and bankers :tape2::tape2::tape2:


----------

