# Hello



## BradParry (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi guys,

I posted a thread around a year ago now, but my situation has changed and therefore i need infomation and a bit of advice on my plan. 

Im 24 years old and live and work in Preston, lancashire, England. I am an e-communications specialist but have been working in finance for the last two years. I have a modern apprenticeship in business admin, and i am level 2 AAT (accounting and finance) qualified. 

I am looking to move to Spain around this time next year. I will have saved up around 8 thousand pounds in this time. 

I am willing to take on any kind of work that will cover my cost of living over there. I have been looking at the Canary Islands but could do with a bit of advice on places that you would recommend/not recommend and what the current/predicated work climate is predicted for next year, whether it will be difficult for me to find work or not?

I would be looking for maybe a kind of touristy area, with a lively atmosphere all though this is not nessecary as i am looking for a perminant move not just a summer job.

Any advice, pointers at all would be much appreciated

Hope to hear from you soon

Thanks
Brad


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BradParry said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I posted a thread around a year ago now, but my situation has changed and therefore i need infomation and a bit of advice on my plan.
> 
> ...


Just as your position has changed, so has Spain's!

My advice would be to read and listen to all you can about Spain and what's happening here at the moment. Here are some pointers
A long thread that you might want to start from the end and work backwards
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...8126-economic-employment-situation-spain.html

Recent news
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...spain/112230-news-about-spain-may-2012-a.html

If you still want to come after looking at that lot I'd say come over a few times and and suss out the job market and also look for jobs in the UK on the usual sites as most of them are international too, but do not come with out a job to go to. Also check out what you need in the way of finances and healthcare as this is changing at the moment.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Last year the Canary Islands were having a surge in tourism and pulling out of recession, this may have been partly due to the troubles in North Africa, unemployment was falling.

This year due to the austerity measures, unemployment is once again rising, there is an average figure of 30% unemployed. So unless you have skills that the unemployed do not possess and have good language skills in English, Spanish and German, then because you are a foreigner you will be somewhat disadvantaged.

Having said all that, people do keep bucking the trend. I would suggest a fact finding trip to one of the larger Islands, Gran Canaria perhaps, the south of the Island has the main tourist trade, and in the north the Capital Las Palmas de G.C. is a vibrant city. Whatever you do don't give up your job in England until you have secured a good position here.

I wish you luck, you will need some.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

BradParry said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I posted a thread around a year ago now, but my situation has changed and therefore i need infomation and a bit of advice on my plan.
> 
> ...


Why? Your best bet would be to just make lots of visits to Spain and have mini holidays - dont give up your UK job!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

You will find it very difficult indeed, if not impossible, to find a secure, or indeed any, job in the Malaga Province and I suspect in most regions and provinces of Spain.
Almost six million Spaniards, some of them with your qualifications but obviously Spanish-speaking, are looking for work.
Please don't take this personally, I say this to everyone who posts asking about work: don't you think that if there are any jobs going, they should go to Spanish people?
The UK has a generous welfare safety net for the unemployed and their families. Spain doesn't.
That's why every British immigrant I know chooses to use Spanish shops, services and other businesses and to employ Spanish people as gardeners, cleaners and suchlike.
I also don't think that £8k is enough to live comfortably for more than six months or so. Factor in rent, utilities, food, fuel, tv/internet, transport, insurances and all the other things you need money for...new clothes, car tax and repairs, entertainment..
You have work in the UK. You are lucky. One in three Spaniards, possibly more, in my area are jobless.
Things are bad enough now but they could get much worse. There will probably be no improvement for at least five years - some economists predict a longer period before recovery and even then it won't be like it was five years ago.
The 'Spanish dream', whatever that means, is dead and buried. It killed itself by overconsumption.


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## BradParry (Mar 19, 2010)

Thank you for your comments. I think i may need to do a bit more research, wasn't much positive feedback there. You say there are so many jobless spaniards, and mention about the amount of jobless people in the UK, yet i have never been with out a job in the UK and really don't see how people can't find a job, there are plenty of jobs but people choose not to take them as they aren't to their specific skillset. 

I won't be giving up my job in the UK and just coming over, i would try and look for a job first or make a few contacts before coming over. I guess i will have to look online. I just wish for a more laid back, better climate way of life. Maybe spain is the wrong place to look? 

I was planning on enrolling on a spanish speaking course later this year so in a years time i will have jopefully picked up the basics! Maybe you're right with a visit over sometime earlier next year and view a few areas myself. 

Thanks for your pointers


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

BradParry said:


> Thank you for your comments. I think i may need to do a bit more research, wasn't much positive feedback there. You say there are so many jobless spaniards, and mention about the amount of jobless people in the UK, yet i have never been with out a job in the UK and really don't see how people can't find a job, there are plenty of jobs but people choose not to take them as they aren't to their specific skillset.
> 
> I won't be giving up my job in the UK and just coming over, i would try and look for a job first or make a few contacts before coming over. I guess i will have to look online. I just wish for a more laid back, better climate way of life. Maybe spain is the wrong place to look?
> 
> ...


 Sorry  . Its worth knowing that the UK has a much easier welfare system, that they dont have in Spain.

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

BradParry said:


> Thank you for your comments. I think i may need to do a bit more research, wasn't much positive feedback there. You say there are so many jobless spaniards, and mention about the amount of jobless people in the UK, yet i have never been with out a job in the UK and really don't see how people can't find a job, there are plenty of jobs but people choose not to take them as they aren't to their specific skillset.
> 
> I won't be giving up my job in the UK and just coming over, i would try and look for a job first or make a few contacts before coming over. I guess i will have to look online. I just wish for a more laid back, better climate way of life. Maybe spain is the wrong place to look?
> 
> ...


everyone I know who has returned to the UK to look for work has found it - yet as you say there are unemployed people there - maybe the fact that you won't be left homeless & starving there has something to do with it? Unemployment doesn't mean 'no income'

but there really aren't jobs here in Spain - unemployment here eally DOES mean 'no income' for a huge number of people - what benefits there are, are time limited

do you not think that they would rather be employed, than have no income at all?


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## BradParry (Mar 19, 2010)

Being left starving and homeless wouldn't ever be an option for me, i would work any job for any income if it put a roof over my head and food on the table, it's called drive and ambition. 

I will do a bit of research then and try to secure a job before i come over, my experience and qualifications must count for something. I'll get looking online and try to arrange a visit over for early next year and see things for myself.

Thanks again for your comments


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BradParry said:


> Thank you for your comments. I think i may need to do a bit more research, wasn't much positive feedback there. You say there are so many jobless spaniards, and mention about the amount of jobless people in the UK, yet i have never been with out a job in the UK and really don't see how people can't find a job, there are plenty of jobs but people choose not to take them as they aren't to their specific skillset.
> 
> I won't be giving up my job in the UK and just coming over, i would try and look for a job first or make a few contacts before coming over. I guess i will have to look online. I just wish for a more laid back, better climate way of life. Maybe spain is the wrong place to look?
> 
> ...


Up until 2009 I think most people who came to Spain could get a job, not necessarily exactly what they were looking for, but something. I think that has completely changed now, and would say that most people *won't* get a job.
Of course there will always be some who do, and with a combination of charm, luck and contacts who knows what might happen? But unfortunately what will happen to 99% of those people is that they will not find work - as simple as that. I would add that among the 5 million plus Spaniards I think they'll be a fair few who have charm, luck and contacts - and most of them also speak Spanish.
You can't compare the UK to Spain, you just can't. Over 25% of the population are unemployed - in the UK it barely reaches double figures. There's constant talk of civil servants being made unemployed which includes hospital workers for example so healthcare is being compromised. Education cuts are being made etc etc and all of this eventually effects everyone - even if you are a healthy single young male!
If you want to come and try, come on over, your money will be more than welcome, but I just wonder why. Presumably you'll want to improve your life, and I wonder if you'll be able to do that in Spain? So think the question you ask, that maybe Spain is the wrong place to look, may be your answer.
PS If you still want to look, the gaming industry in Gibraltar seems to be growing...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BradParry said:


> Being left starving and homeless wouldn't ever be an option for me, i would work any job for any income if it put a roof over my head and food on the table, it's called drive and ambition.
> 
> I will do a bit of research then and try to secure a job before i come over, my experience and qualifications must count for something. I'll get looking online and try to arrange a visit over for early next year and see things for myself.
> 
> Thanks again for your comments


Brad
My daughter's boyfriend would work at anything if he could. It's not called drive and ambition - it's called desperation. This is not the UK where you get a handout no matter what. It's Spain, where people need to work 'cos if they don't, they don't have anything.


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## BradParry (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok Pesky, thanks for your inspirational advice


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

BradParry said:


> Ok Pesky, thanks for your inspirational advice


She's telling it like it is, sadly. 'Drive and ambition' don't by themselves get you anywhere if there are no opportunities to apply these virtues to. People in Spain have drive and ambition, they speak Spanish, some have had highly paid professional jobs...which they've lost not because they lacked 'drive and ambition' but because the economy is screwed.
Don't you think those five and a half million unemployed Spaniards would do anything to keep a roof over their heads? I wonder what the tens of thousands who have 'lost the roof over their heads' because they are unemployed and there is no work would think of your comment.... People are losing their homes, Brad. Families are living off granny's pension. It's as bad as it can get...except it will get worse.
I cannot understand why so few people in the UK seem to understand how bad things are here.
No-one should think about coming to Spain unless they are retired with a good income, have a secure job or can work from anywhere in the world.


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

We are sticking an extra fiver on our weekly shop to buy basic food which we drop off at the local Ayuntamiento to help families (Spanish and immigrant) in this area who can’t even afford to feed themselves…… yes, it’s that bad. 

I would have thought that possible starvation is a perfect motivator for any amount of “Drive & ambition” but if there’s nowhere to channel said qualities i.e. a job, then basically, over here, you’re in the sh!t

All we can do is tell it how we see it…… how you use that information is up to you.




Doggy








p.s. Sorry if that's a bit blunt but I'm a geordie & we don't do tact.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BradParry said:


> Ok Pesky, thanks for your inspirational advice


As this is a written forum it's sometimes difficult to gauge the tone that is being used, but I'm taking this comment as sarcasm.

I'd love to be inspirational, but I stop at being stupid. You can be as optimistic as you like, but you'll get nowhere if you're not realistic too, and when you write things like 



> my experience and qualifications must count for something


and


> i would work any job for any income if it put a roof over my head and food on the table, it's called drive and ambition.


well, that's not Real Spain any more.

However, like I say, come over and scout out areas and look online and see what you can get job wise. You never know, there's always someone who gets lucky. That is of course if it's just you. If you've got other family members to worry about then I wouldn't risk it.

BTW, if you come on to a forum and ask people for pointers and advice, that's what you'll get, even if it's not to your liking!

Note to self - Always ask if poster really wants advice or if they've already made their mind up about what Spain is like.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

owdoggy said:


> We are sticking an extra fiver on our weekly shop to buy basic food which we drop off at the local Ayuntamiento to help families (Spanish and immigrant) in this area who can’t even afford to feed themselves…… yes, it’s that bad.
> 
> I would have thought that possible starvation is a perfect motivator for any amount of “Drive & ambition” but if there’s nowhere to channel said qualities i.e. a job, then basically, over here, you’re in the sh!t
> 
> ...


some of the shops around here have collection boxes where you can put non-perishable food into for collection by Caritas & another local charity to give out to the needy families in the town

a few months ago they would be overflowing on a daily basis......... but not so much now


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

BradParry said:


> Ok Pesky, thanks for your inspirational advice


Hi brad, my husband is spanish he has 4 other brothers and sisters, they all have degrees/masters but only one has a job. Says it all really. Weve given ourselves another couple of years here then if it still hasnt picked up we will go back.


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## Mexberry (Dec 19, 2011)

Hi Brad, Why not go to a country that has opportunities to make some serious money. If you could get a job in the Canadian oil patch, working long often cold conditions you could earn enough to buy property in Spain for cash. The currency is very strong, good sound fiscally responsible government and they speak the same language. If not there then someplace in the middle east. The only folk with any change in their pockets in Spain are the ex pat pensioners who content themselves with booze, food and adult diapers. Put your dream on hold for awhile earn some worthwhile smack then live your Spanish dream. Go for it!


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## scottdeay30 (May 17, 2012)

Just a quick 1 all the people saying there is no work have yous got employment out on Spain or are yous unemployed as well thank you


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

Sometimes people get stuck in a rut and they stop thinking outside of the box that they are trapped in.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Mexberry said:


> Hi Brad, Why not go to a country that has opportunities to make some serious money. If you could get a job in the Canadian oil patch, working long often cold conditions you could earn enough to buy property in Spain for cash. The currency is very strong, good sound fiscally responsible government and they speak the same language. If not there then someplace in the middle east. *The only folk with any change in their pockets in Spain are the ex pat pensioners who content themselves with booze, food and adult diapers*. Put your dream on hold for awhile earn some worthwhile smack then live your Spanish dream. Go for it!


How delighted I was to read this neat little summary of all us retired folks here in Spain.

But now I am suffering an identity crisis as I have tried hard but cannot slot myself into your neat little category boxes.
So....to fit in with my fellow retired immigrants I must 1) drink more -sadly I can only manage a glass or two of good wine a day -2) eat more, presumably pizza and burger-type food? -difficult to find in my little village - and 3) become incontinent. Hard but I'll try, just to please you.  

But when I consider my fellow retirees of all nationalities, what do I find? Active, sober, industrious people, some working, some active in various charitable organisations - heck, some of us are even active politically....

Leaving aside the tone of your post....do you really know that much about Spain, I wonde, to get those strange ideas? Or for that matter, Canada, where I spent time and owned property before I should according to you have become drunk, satiated and incontinent. Are you sure it's that easy for someone with no experience of that kindof work to walk into a difficult and demanding job?

I'm looking forward to hearing comments from Owdoggy,Baldilocks and other senile, intoxicated and incontinent old fools....

Oh and by the way, there is indeed 'change in my pocket' . You're right there.


And the last time I counted them, I still had all my marbles. 
But no incontinence pads.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

scottdeay30 said:


> Just a quick 1 all the people saying there is no work have yous got employment out on Spain or are yous unemployed as well thank you


some of us have work/are self-employed - we've been here for years & have built up our businesses - I'm self employed & have done exactly that.......... but if my business goes under I'll have nothing - no dole, nothing, & I'd likely end up on the streets with my 2 kids

the majority though have a secure income from elsewhere in the form of a pension or a business which doesn't rely on Spain - perhaps by commuting to the UK or wherever (my late husband 'commuted' to the US!) or by way of an online business - & I'm not just talking about the posters on this forum - I'm talking about the non-Spanish people I know 'in real life'

we're not 'saying' there's no work - the cold facts are that unemployment IS 3x that of the UK & that half of under 24s are out of work

if you want to give it a go, feel free - you _might _be one of the lucky ones - if you're not - at least we can sleep easy knowing that we told you the facts


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

scottdeay30 said:


> Just a quick 1 all the people saying there is no work have yous got employment out on Spain or are yous unemployed as well thank you


Are you asking if the posters on here have employment??? If so, then the answer is that some are retired, some have been in Spain for many years and developed business and employment when times were good, some have commuting partners and others have returned to the UK - such as myself. My husband was going to start up a sister company to his UK business in Spain, sadly we arrived just as the recession started and so he ended up commuting. After three years I finally got work in a bar for 200€ a month working 9am - 6pm six days a week, til it went bust, I then did telesales, selling timeshare, I earnt approx 400€. Fortunately my husband commuted and earnt enough for us to stay in Spain. Altho eventually it all became to much and we returned to the UK. Its not what we wanted but it has to be said that its much less stressful and easier financially to live here.

Spain is no longer a country where you can go, start up a little business, or do a bit of bar work and live comfortably, its VERY hard and there is no financial assistance at all 

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

...also worth mentioning is that Spain is on the brink of introducing a new ruling that will prevent expats becoming residents unless they can produce proof of income. Which IMO (if I understand it correctly) is a very good idea and will stop the influx of folk who seem to think its easy to move there and earn enough to "get by"!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

scottdeay30 said:


> Just a quick 1 all the people saying there is no work have yous got employment out on Spain or are yous unemployed as well thank you



There are almost six million people unemployed in Spain. There are of course jobs but few and not for un- or semi-skilled non-Spanish -speaking British immigrants. 
Where there are jobs, I hope each and every one of them goes to a Spanish person as unlike the UK, Spain has no generous welfare system which hands out benefits to the unemployed.

Tbh I cannot understand why people in the UK don't understand how bad things are here. 

It's not just the broadsheet press and the likes of BBC2 and BBC4 that are reporting on the crisis in Spain, the Mail, Sun and ITV have featured pieces on the situation here.

People are desperate to work here. Unscrupulous people are offering work at disgraceful wages - 4, 5 euros an hour. 
The stereotype of the lazy, 'manana' Spaniard lying in the sun strumming a guitar is as offensive as it is inaccurate. The Spanish workers I have employed are as conscientious and hardworking as any I've employed or worked with back in the UK, if not more so.
The only people who have ripped me off were Brits and Moroccans when I first arrived and didn't know how things worked.
That's why I use Spanish shops and tradespeople.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Mexberry said:


> Hi Brad, Why not go to a country that has opportunities to make some serious money. If you could get a job in the Canadian oil patch, working long often cold conditions you could earn enough to buy property in Spain for cash. The currency is very strong, good sound fiscally responsible government and they speak the same language. If not there then someplace in the middle east. The only folk with any change in their pockets in Spain are the ex pat pensioners who content themselves with booze, food and adult diapers. Put your dream on hold for awhile earn some worthwhile smack then live your Spanish dream. Go for it!


This post is from some ignorant moron who has absolutely no idea and doesn't even have the courage to say where he is. It is wildly inaccurate, rude and abusive.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mexberry said:


> The only folk with any change in their pockets in Spain are the ex pat pensioners who content themselves with booze, food and adult diapers. Put your dream on hold for awhile earn some worthwhile smack then live your Spanish dream. Go for it!



Hhhmm, not a very pleasant or accurate comment is it, especially as reading from your previous posts you dont even live there! You havent endeared yourself to the forum by making it

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

scottdeay30 said:


> Just a quick 1 all the people saying there is no work have yous got employment out on Spain or are yous unemployed as well thank you


Many of us have retired and live a quiet and peaceful retirement where our somewhat meagre pensions go a bit further than they did in the UK. Here there is far less institutional ripping off. For example I pay for "Council Tax" here for a year about the same as I paid for a month in UK but here, the streets are clean, the refuse gets collected daily (inc Sats, Suns and Bank Holidays), and therefore there is a smaller problem with rats, feral foxes, etc.

Property prices are not overinflated unless you go near the coasts and, in general one can walk the streets without feeling threatened by loads of drunken hooligans.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> ...also worth mentioning is that Spain is on the brink of introducing a new ruling that will prevent expats becoming residents unless they can produce proof of income. Which IMO (if I understand it correctly) is a very good idea and will stop the influx of folk who seem to think its easy to move there and earn enough to "get by"!
> 
> Jo xxx


it has already been introduced - it came into law 24th April - you can't register as resident without proof of income & healthcare provision


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> it has already been introduced - it came into law 24th April - you can't register as resident without proof of income & healthcare provision


In which case, thats all that needs to be said. A sufficient income source needs to be proved before you can move to and settle in Spain

Jo xxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

Will all foreigners, with residence in Spain now, have to prove that they have required income & healthcare provision?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Abyss-Rover said:


> Will all foreigners, with residence in Spain now, have to prove that they have required income & healthcare provision?


that is one question which still remains unanswered by the Spanish govt. -according to the UK consulate they are still trying to establish exactly how the changes affect us

what is clear, is that in many extranjerías, they are refusing to issue resident certs without proof of income & healthcare provision


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> In which case, thats all that needs to be said. A sufficient income source needs to be proved before you can move to and settle in Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


exactly


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> exactly




And as it should be, especially at times like these, when the Government can't provide for its own people.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Mexberry said:


> Hi Brad, Why not go to a country that has opportunities to make some serious money. If you could get a job in the Canadian oil patch, working long often cold conditions you could earn enough to buy property in Spain for cash. The currency is very strong, good sound fiscally responsible government and they speak the same language. If not there then someplace in the middle east. The only folk with any change in their pockets in Spain are the ex pat pensioners who content themselves with booze, food and adult diapers. Put your dream on hold for awhile earn some worthwhile smack then live your Spanish dream. Go for it!


I skimmed this thread before so missed this post until I saw that people had been upset about some of the remarks made.
This post tried (and failed) to be tongue in cheek, was not particularly intelligent, and was offensive to some, but it did make one good point....

If you have good qualifications, have an attitude to work which means you _may_ do well at whatever you turn your hand to, and can (as Abyss Rover pointed out) think outside the box....*then the last place you want to be trying your luck is Spain right now!*

Look for somewhere where you can still apply all these qualities - these areas are shrinking fast with the current world-wide economic situation, so you'll need to move quickly.
But that's the only way you are going to make enough money to 'live your dream' ... eventually....


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

I wonder if foreigners coming to Spain, to work in the tourist industry, will have to prove adequate income. This would at least stop many of them working the summer and then going back to their own country, although claiming Spanish paro throughout the winter.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> If you have good qualifications, have an attitude to work which means you _may_ do well at whatever you turn your hand to, and can (as Abyss Rover pointed out) think outside the box....*then the last place you want to be trying your luck is Spain right now!*


This is exactly what the person who opened this thread, and many others are failing to grasp, IMO because they are not thinking outside the box. In fact, they are so inside the box that they can only see the past of Spain namely 2001 - 2007, and they can't see *now* and *the future* of Spain.

Like I said before - New Zealand's the place, but as you so rightly pointed out, move fast, 'cos that _chollo _(easy break) is going to be finishing pretty soon too.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I wonder if foreigners coming to Spain, to work in the tourist industry, will have to prove adequate income. This would at least stop many of them working the summer and then going back to their own country, although claiming Spanish paro throughout the winter.


 I guess it would, cos most summer jobs tend to be low paid and "on the black" so they wouldnt be able to declare it as income or healthcare. Those that are contracted, would need SS numbers, NIE numbers and - residencias!! a bit of a catch 22 maybe???? It will certainly make it harder for employers to employ those not yet in Spain

Jo xxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> I guess it would, cos most summer jobs tend to be low paid and "on the black" so they wouldnt be able to declare it as income or healthcare. Those that are contracted, would need SS numbers, NIE numbers and - residencias!! a bit of a catch 22 maybe???? It will certainly make it harder for employers to employ those not yet in Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


I was actually talking about the legal workers, with a contract, entitling them to claim Paro in the winter, to help them survive through the "non tourist" period. This is often abused by foreigners returning to their own country and working or claiming benefits, through the winter months.

This must cost the Spanish system a fortune.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I was actually talking about the legal workers, with a contract, entitling them to claim Paro in the winter, to help them survive through the "non tourist" period. This is often abused by foreigners returning to their own country and working or claiming benefits, through the winter months.
> 
> This must cost the Spanish system a fortune.


let's hope Spain has woken up properly & won't give these jobs to foreigners then


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> let's hope Spain has woken up properly & won't give these jobs to foreigners then


 Gosh, does that mean I could have claimed paro then??? I had a contrato definido and a residencia when I left Spain!?!?

Jo xxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> let's hope Spain has woken up properly & won't give these jobs to foreigners then


I agree that Spain should be doing more to protect what they have and to prevent abuse of the system. But, there will always be a need for foreign workers, as the tourists expect it and want it.

If Spain tightens all of it's weaknesses it will get out of the mess it's in. (My opinion)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Abyss-Rover said:


> . But, there will always be a need for foreign workers, as the tourists expect it and want it.


 Why?????

Jo xxx


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

BradParry said:


> Being left starving and homeless wouldn't ever be an option for me, i would work any job for any income if it put a roof over my head and food on the table,* it's called drive and ambition*.
> 
> I will do a bit of research then and try to secure a job before i come over, my experience and qualifications must count for something. I'll get looking online and try to arrange a visit over for early next year and see things for myself.
> 
> Thanks again for your comments


Brad, drive and ambition are admirable character traits but I don't think you have totally realised just how bad the employment situation in Spain is; local skilled people can't get work, local unskilled people can't find work, bars are closing all over the place and of course this means the bar jobs are few and far between even. "I would work any job for any income" as would many hundreds of thousands of local people.

Keep your job and come on holiday and enjoy yourself.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I was actually talking about the legal workers, with a contract, entitling them to claim Paro in the winter, to help them survive through the "non tourist" period. This is often abused by foreigners returning to their own country and working or claiming benefits, through the winter months.
> 
> This must cost the Spanish system a fortune.


I actually know a small number of people in our village who have had to work this way for the last couple of years - summer away from home working on the coast and winter at home claiming Paro. Incidentally, they are far from rich out of this.

But I have no idea whether this is a permanent system or only works for so long before contributions run out?
And all the people I personally know who do this are Spaniards, but I guess that a foreigner registered for work here would be in the same position. Although that would mean they were also registered as residing in Spain.

So yes, in the case of a UK person going back to the UK for the winter months and claiming benefits or working there, I guess this is a loophole which they can use, however illegally, but I would guess that both Spain and the UK could put measures in place to stop this.


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> Why?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Silly question!

Because they are tourists. The very same reason that the English tourists want to eat "full English breakfast" with a pint of san miguel. Most English tourists (and other nationalities) are happier speaking to their own nationality, when they are on holiday, hence the need for English bars etc.

Some ex pats even fall into this area because they can't survive without the "English shop", for their British produce.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Abyss-Rover said:


> But, there will always be a need for foreign workers, as the tourists expect it and want it.





jojo said:


> Why?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Lets be realistic here. 
Many people going on holiday to Spain want to see a bit of _the real Spain_ (whatever that is in their minds...), but many of them will feel much more comfortable actually staying in a place where someone can talk to them in their native language, provides a setting they feel comfortable with, and understands the problems they may face as foreigners.

Its just how part of the tourist industry works - they supply what they think tourists demand.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I wonder if foreigners coming to Spain, to work in the tourist industry, will have to prove adequate income. This would at least stop many of them working the summer and then going back to their own country, although claiming Spanish paro throughout the winter.


They only get four months' paro for each year they have worked, so it won't last long - just a few weeks if they worked over the summer.

I really don't see why it matters whether they stay in Spain or not, given that they and their employers have already paid the contributions. It's not like the Jobseekers Allowance in the UK where you have to be there ready to take on any work that's offered you.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Abyss-Rover said:


> If Spain tightens all of it's weaknesses it will get out of the mess it's in. (My opinion)


If Spain put into force many of the rules and regulations that are operative now, (ie tax issues, building legislation, work contracts...)they could certainly make money.


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> They only get four months' paro for each year they have worked, so it won't last long - just a few weeks if they worked over the summer.
> 
> I really don't see why it matters whether they stay in Spain or not, given that they and their employers have already paid the contributions. It's not like the Jobseekers Allowance in the UK where you have to be there ready to take on any work that's offered you.


I think you will find that your details are incorrect (in Mallorca anyway). It's my understanding that after working for two successive summers (minimum 6 months contracts) they are entitled to Paro, until they start their next contract, or 6 months has elapsed.

The reason why it is wrong, is:

They are given this benefit to survive the winter months because it's unfair to expect workers to supply tourism support and then suffer during the "non tourist" season. If they are returning to their own country, for work or benefits, they are not suffering during the "non tourist" season.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> Brad, drive and ambition are admirable character traits but I don't think you have totally realised just how bad the employment situation in Spain is; local skilled people can't get work, local unskilled people can't find work, bars are closing all over the place and of course this means the bar jobs are few and far between even. "I would work any job for any income" as would many hundreds of thousands of local people.
> 
> Keep your job and come on holiday and enjoy yourself.


Brad hasn't been back since I told him about Spain today...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> They only get four months' paro for each year they have worked, so it won't last long - just a few weeks if they worked over the summer.
> 
> I really don't see why it matters whether they stay in Spain or not, given that they and their employers have already paid the contributions. * It's not like the Jobseekers Allowance in the UK where you have to be there ready to take on any work that's offered you.*






How does that fit in with the rule that says one can keep the JSA and come looking for work in Spain?

Hopefully the Government will scrap that rule.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Brad hasn't been back since I told him about Spain today...


Truth hurts, as my old Gran used to say.

Coming to look for work in Spain really shouldn't be one of our 'human rights'.


'Human rights' are not ethereal, hallowed concepts: they are human artefacts and change just as ideas of what is fair and just change. 

The Act which contained this 'right' to move freely around the EU also contained the 'right' to move capital freely. 
This 'right' translates into reality as huge sums of cheap capital flooding into Spain, Greece and other EU states.

Who has benefited most from these 'rights'?


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you are on JSA, under the normal rules, you have to be available for work at the days and times stated on your contract. You also have to prove that you are actively seeking work at these times and sign on at least once a fortnight.

However, you may apply to collect JSA _for a short time_, if you can prove you have the opportunity of work outside of the UK.
To do this, you usually have to have interview letters available or show that you are actively seeking work, in Spain, for example.
This means, in effect, signing on at your nearest employment office in Spain and getting the guy behind the desk to sign your JSA forms so that you can sign on from there.

Sounds easy - in practice it is anything but!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I think you will find that your details are incorrect (in Mallorca anyway). It's my understanding that after working for two successive summers (minimum 6 months contracts) they are entitled to Paro, until they start their next contract, or 6 months has elapsed.
> 
> The reason why it is wrong, is:
> 
> They are given this benefit to survive the winter months because it's unfair to expect workers to supply tourism support and then suffer during the "non tourist" season. If they are returning to their own country, for work or benefits, they are not suffering during the "non tourist" season.


OK sorry, my knowledge of paro is limited to the construction and agricultural workers round here - we don't have a tourist season!


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> OK sorry, my knowledge of paro is limited to the construction and agricultural workers round here - we don't have a tourist season!


No need to be sorry, my information might not be 100% exact either.

It just annoys me that these people (and I know of some from the UK, Sweden and Argentina) are doing this and making life harder for the genuine people who stay all year round and suffer the "non tourist" period.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> If you are on JSA, under the normal rules, you have to be available for work at the days and times stated on your contract. You also have to prove that you are actively seeking work at these times and sign on at least once a fortnight.
> 
> However, you may apply to collect JSA _for a short time_, if you can prove you have the opportunity of work outside of the UK.
> To do this, you usually have to have interview letters available or show that you are actively seeking work, in Spain, for example.
> ...


& if the Spanish govt decides that the JSA isn't sufficient income, then they won't be able to move here anyway


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Brad hasn't been back since I told him about Spain today...


Neither has Mexberry


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Neither has Mexberry



Guess it's time for the booze-up, monster burger and chips followed by a quick change of diapers for us oldies, Baldy...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> & if the Spanish govt decides that the JSA isn't sufficient income, then they won't be able to move here anyway


I'm sorry but anyone in the UK claiming JSA and moving to Spain to find a job is taking the p*** and a holiday at the taxpayers' expensde.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> & if the Spanish govt decides that the JSA isn't sufficient income, then they won't be able to move here anyway


Perhaps.....

I have read (somewhere!) that there is talk of around 400 euros being considered the minimum per month per person for income levels on application and if this is true, then the 292.50 pounds per month on JSA would not fit the bill.
However, I do believe that under EU rulings Spain cannot refuse residence on income alone (although I am sure that short term _emergency_ measures could be brought into force to counteract this).

But in any case, the 90 day ruling comes into effect here.
The most a JSA claimant can try looking for work in another country and claim JSA is 3 months. After that time, they must return to the UK to continue getting their JSA under the normal rulings of being available for work there.

So, by the time it came around that the unemployed person had to sign on the foreigners register in Spain, if they had not found work, their time would be up in any case.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> Perhaps.....
> 
> I have read (somewhere!) that there is talk of around 400 euros being considered the minimum per month per person for income levels on application and if this is true, then the 292.50 pounds per month on JSA would not fit the bill.
> However, I do believe that under EU rulings Spain cannot refuse residence on income alone (although I am sure that short term _emergency_ measures could be brought into force to counteract this).
> ...


But how will this be policed?
After 90 days you're supposed to sign on as a resident. What if you don't sign on? Who's going to know? It will be difficult to live in Spain, but not impossible, especially if you're someone economically challenged and you don't wan to buy a car, you rent a place form someone who's subletting... Just the kind of person that Spain doesn't need atm.
Do you think it will be feasible to put new regulations into place?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Guess it's time for the booze-up, monster burger and chips followed by a quick change of diapers for us oldies, Baldy...


Not to mention popping back to the UK for a quick retuning/replacement for the free NHS digital hearing aid and to restock on the free NHS zinc-air batteries to operate it and a few free prescriptions before the 10% charge starts in Spain (unless one gets enough "small change" to have to pay 20%). 

"Geeantees all round don't you think No 1? Be a dear and just add a little more warm water to the bath." (if you don't know what that is all about you're not a Hitchhiker.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But how will this be policed?
> After 90 days you're supposed to sign on as a resident. What if you don't sign on? Who's going to know? It will be difficult to live in Spain, but not impossible, especially if you're someone economically challenged and you don't wan to buy a car, you rent a place form someone who's subletting... Just the kind of person that Spain doesn't need atm.
> Do you think it will be feasible to put new regulations into place?


Oh I agree.
However, in the case of a JSA claimant this cannot apply. If your source of income is JSA then you will no longer be able to receive it after 3 months away from the UK, as it will be cut off at source (in the UK).

There are of course those who have flouted this in the past. I think it was Jo (forgive me Jo if I'm wrong...) who knew someone who used to go back to the UK once a fortnight to sign on for JSA. But this is a different case altogether, as they had not declared that they were seeking work in Spain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

AFAIK, the JSA can only be transferred to Spain or indeed any other EU country if the applicant can prove by letter/e-mail that he has an interview or interviews lined up. If this is the case then he has to give the date of his return to the UK and then on his return go to the Unemployment office in the UK with proof of the said interview and to resume signing on. This apparently can only be done for a 3 month period. so while he's away he can continue to receive JSA without going into an office. If you are signing on to JSA in the UK, you have to prove that you have applied for at least 3 jobs a week - this is all according to a friend of mine who used to work in our local job centre! I dont know how true it is, but I happened to mention this issue a while ago and thats what she said!



Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But how will this be policed?
> After 90 days you're supposed to sign on as a resident. What if you don't sign on? Who's going to know? It will be difficult to live in Spain, but not impossible, especially if you're someone economically challenged and you don't wan to buy a car, you rent a place form someone who's subletting... Just the kind of person that Spain doesn't need atm.
> Do you think it will be feasible to put new regulations into place?


How is it policed at the moment? Is it even policed at all at the moment? If one doesn't get involved with bureaucracy, who's to know? If you rent on the black, run an unlicenced car with no ItV or insurance and only work on the black and nobody grasses you up, who knows? There are probably any number of Spaniards doing just that and nobody checks on them, even more so if they live quietly out on the campo (water from a well or spring, electricity and hot water from solar panels, cook on a wood stove, etc).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> How is it policed at the moment? Is it even policed at all at the moment? If one doesn't get involved with bureaucracy, who's to know? If you rent on the black, run an unlicenced car with no ItV or insurance and only work on the black and nobody grasses you up, who knows? There are probably any number of Spaniards doing just that and nobody checks on them, even more so if they live quietly out on the campo (water from a well or spring, electricity and hot water from solar panels, cook on a wood stove, etc).


Yes, but they wouldn't get deported, would they?!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm sorry but anyone in the UK claiming JSA and moving to Spain to find a job is taking the p*** and a holiday at the taxpayers' expensde.


& I agree......... & maybe the Spanish govt does too..........


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Perhaps.....
> 
> I have read (somewhere!) that there is talk of around 400 euros being considered the minimum per month per person for income levels on application and if this is true, then the 292.50 pounds per month on JSA would not fit the bill.
> However, I do believe that under EU rulings Spain cannot refuse residence on income alone (although I am sure that short term _emergency_ measures could be brought into force to counteract this).
> ...


Can anyonefrom outside Spain hope to live on 400 euros a month? Even if you own property, taxes, utilities etc. would eat this up before you eat or drink anything.

As for JSA in Spain....as you rightly point out in your last paragraph, it's basically a free holiday.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But how will this be policed?
> After 90 days you're supposed to sign on as a resident. What if you don't sign on? Who's going to know? It will be difficult to live in Spain, but not impossible, especially if you're someone economically challenged and you don't wan to buy a car, you rent a place form someone who's subletting... Just the kind of person that Spain doesn't need atm.
> Do you think it will be feasible to put new regulations into place?


yes, that is the exact problem

it _should_ stop people with children though - unless they had no intention of sending them to school


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, but they wouldn't get deported, would they?!


not under current rules, no


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> not under current rules, no


The Spaniards that Baldilocks was talking about wouldn't get deported - not even Rajoy can manage that!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that is the exact problem
> 
> it _should_ stop people with children though - unless they had no intention of sending them to school


Yes, which hopefully as you have said, will make people look at coming to Spain a whole lot more seriously.

BUT

Are people in the UK aware of these changes in Spanish legislation? Is this being "advertised"? Are they being given a chance to inform themselves before coming here with the family?


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> AFAIK, the JSA can only be transferred to Spain or indeed any other EU country if the applicant can prove by letter/e-mail that he has an interview or interviews lined up. If this is the case then he has to give the date of his return to the UK and then on his return go to the Unemployment office in the UK with proof of the said interview and to resume signing on. This apparently can only be done for a 3 month period. so while he's away he can continue to receive JSA without going into an office. If you are signing on to JSA in the UK, you have to prove that you have applied for at least 3 jobs a week - this is all according to a friend of mine who used to work in our local job centre! I dont know how true it is, but I happened to mention this issue a while ago and thats what she said!
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, that is basically absolutely correct.

But having personally dealt with an application from someone on JSA wishing to try their luck in Spain (an ex student actually), I know there are circumstances when showing proof of signing on and applying for work in Spain holds ground.
In this case, the person had to sign on at an employment centre in Spain to prove they were actually there and searching for work to fit the qualifications registered on their UK JSA contract.

What they found difficult was getting an administrator at the Spanish employment centre to even listen to them (they spoke Spanish by the way), even though they had all the necessary paperwork to hand.
And no signature - no JSA.

They actually gave up after six weeks of being without their 135 pounds a fortnight, and had to re-sign on in the UK because no signature meant they had been taken off of JSA.

I fully understand the reluctance of the clerical staff at the employment centre to deal with this particular persons claim, however legal it actually was.
And make no judgement either way.

I was simply stating how it isn't that easy for a JSA claimant to legally look for work in Spain. And would guess it is much harder now (the situation I described happened back last summer).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The Spaniards that Baldilocks was talking about wouldn't get deported - not even Rajoy can manage that!!


He's probably working on it!

My point was that if Spaniards can manage to stay below the radar then I'm sure immigrants (legal or illegal) could, too. Perhaps even more easily especially if they can enter the country without being checked (land crossings, official or unofficial) so that officially they don't exist. There is nothing that will force them to stick their heads up, they don't have to register for residency, padrón, etc, they can acquire/steal an old car, to get to and from the campo; fruit and veg from wayside stalls or steal from a huerto, etc. Provided they can remain out of sight and not draw attention to themselves, they could proabably live like that undetected for years. The Guardia rarely, if ever, check on remote cortijos, even less the "garden sheds" which is why there are a number of thefts from them that are never detected until the owner (if there is one) goes to visit.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But how will this be policed?
> After 90 days you're supposed to sign on as a resident. What if you don't sign on? Who's going to know? It will be difficult to live in Spain, but not impossible, especially if you're someone economically challenged and you don't wan to buy a car, you rent a place form someone who's subletting... Just the kind of person that Spain doesn't need atm.
> Do you think it will be feasible to put new regulations into place?


 Certainly where I was, you had to get a residencia with your NIE number, the two were combined. If you did get the NIE without residencia it would only be valid for three months - so maybe thats what thats about?????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Certainly where I was, you had to get a residencia with your NIE number, the two were combined. If you did get the NIE without residencia it would only be valid for three months - so maybe thats what thats about?????
> 
> Jo xxx


yes, that does seem to be the case - I think we discussed it a while ago


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> Certainly where I was, you had to get a residencia with your NIE number, the two were combined. If you did get the NIE without residencia it would only be valid for three months - so maybe thats what thats about?????
> 
> Jo xxx


I could be wrong... but I _think_ that nowadays there are two ways to get your NIE - if you are a non-resident buying property or a similar transaction, I think you can just get the NIE on its own. I _think_ that the non resident NIE is white and the resident (or prospective resident) NIE is green.

Although I do know that now, in some areas anyway, people are only being offered a green certificate with their NIE number and, if they want to remain here after 90 days, have to go back and get their full residencia (or the equivalent for EU Citizens) certificate which has the NIE number on it.

When we arrived here in 2005, we got the white NIE forms and signed on the Padron, but I'll admit that we didn't sign on for residencia for over a year, because in those days we were told that we had to provide proof of income and health care before we would be given our residencia cards.
And, rightly or (most would say) wrongly, we kept our heads down for over a year, until I had built up an income and became autonomo and we could then comply with the income rulings.

I know of some who arrived about the same time as us who never made the transition to residencia. And I know they are feeling awfully worried right now!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Yes, that is basically absolutely correct.
> 
> But having personally dealt with an application from someone on JSA wishing to try their luck in Spain (an ex student actually), I know there are circumstances when showing proof of signing on and applying for work in Spain holds ground.


I hear what you say and it was unfortunate for that particular individual.
But cases like that are few and far-between, I should imagine.

Every rule or law can have its anomalies and unfairnesses but rules and laws there must be. Nothing and nobody is perfect. It's a sad fact that sometimes life just isn't fair.

The very idea that people can if they bend the rules spend time on a free holiday in the sun is just wrong at any time, especially in times like these.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I hear what you say and it was unfortunate for that particular individual.
> But cases like that are few and far-between, I should imagine.
> 
> Every rule or law can have its anomalies and unfairnesses but rules and laws there must be. Nothing and nobody is perfect. It's a sad fact that sometimes life just isn't fair.
> ...


Oh, I agree. No problema! 

I actually warned this particular person that just because they were doing something legally, it didn't mean that it would work in practice!

My argument was about that it really isn't as easy for an unemployed person to come over to Spain, even with the goodwill of the JSA department offering to pay their way rather than take money from the hard-pressed Spanish State, as some would have us believe.

But I also agree that it can be done 'under cover' and this is the real problem IMHO.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, which hopefully as you have said, will make people look at coming to Spain a whole lot more seriously.
> 
> BUT
> 
> Are people in the UK aware of these changes in Spanish legislation? Is this being "advertised"? Are they being given a chance to inform themselves before coming here with the family?


that's what we're here for 

but seriously - the info - such info as there is atm - IS on the UKinSpain website for anyone who wants to look at it as part of their research

assuming people DO actually research


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> but seriously - the info - such info as there is atm - IS on the UKinSpain website for anyone who wants to look at it as part of their research
> 
> assuming people DO actually research


No comment!! :tape2: :tape2: :tongue: :tape2:


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## Mexberry (Dec 19, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> How delighted I was to read this neat little summary of all us retired folks here in Spain.
> 
> But now I am suffering an identity crisis as I have tried hard but cannot slot myself into your neat little category boxes.
> So....to fit in with my fellow retired immigrants I must 1) drink more -sadly I can only manage a glass or two of good wine a day -2) eat more, presumably pizza and burger-type food? -difficult to find in my little village - and 3) become incontinent. Hard but I'll try, just to please you.
> ...


If you recall the op was asking for some guidance as to employment possibilities in Spain. 
There are much more economic advantageous opportunities elsewhere including the Canadian oil patch, which I am familiar with , having worked there a decade ago. I still own property in BC as well as Mexico, which we are trying to sell so we can live in Spain, which I am familiar with as a tourist. Seniors as a group generally are not large spenders other than for food, booze and senior lifestyle (diapers et al). if you wish to interpret that as all seniors being drunk and pizza guzzling then I presume you are an out of work politician twisting words to suite their agenda. Seniors in Spain as anywhere else volunteer and are active in their communities. Enjoy your glass of wine.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mexberry said:


> if you wish to interpret that as all seniors being drunk and pizza guzzling then I presume you are an out of work politician twisting words to suite their agenda. Seniors in Spain as anywhere else volunteer and are active in their communities. Enjoy your glass of wine.



I dont think it was an out of work politician who made that interpretation or who twisted words to suit(e???) their agenda. I think it was someone who needs to learn some decorum, manners and factual accuracy before posting...........




> The only folk with any change in their pockets in Spain are the ex pat pensioners who content themselves with booze, food and adult diapers. Put your dream on hold for awhile earn some worthwhile smack then live your Spanish dream. Go for it!


Um......... I wonder who wrote that!!! You are welcome to post and join in our discussions as long as you are informative and polite

Thank you

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Mexberry said:


> . Seniors as a group generally are not large spenders other than for food, booze and senior lifestyle (diapers et al). if you wish to interpret that as all seniors being drunk and pizza guzzling then I presume you are an out of work politician twisting words to suite their agenda. Seniors in Spain as anywhere else volunteer and are active in their communities. Enjoy your glass of wine.


1) Seniors have more spending power than many younger people. In the UK, the over-seventies take as many if not more holidays as people in younger age groups. Many have sold large properties and downsized and pocketed the 'profit'. (as we did). Many have sold businesses (as we did). Many have comfortable incomes from savings and investments (as we have). Retired people have no worries about job security, paying mortgages and so on. So you are wrong.

2) If you don't want to have what you write misinterpreted, choose your words more carefully. What, pray, is a 'senior lifestyle'? Is there only one? But don't bother to reply, it's a rhetorical question.

3) 'Out of work politician'...that made me laugh.  No-need-to-work educator, business owner, interpreter/translator and yes, politician, would be a better description. I get offered work I don't want.....but I do the occasional expenses-paid UK trip to give seminars etc.

Btw, I guess that *'to suite'* your agenda was a typo?


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