# US Pediatrician to dubai salary package



## maimango

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask all of you here who might have something to say on my husband's offer. My husband is US Board Certifired Pediatrician and 8 years of experience. He was recently sent a benefit package as follows:

33k AED/ month basic salary
2k/month special allowance
600/month travel allowance
4 bedroom villa will be provided
medical insurance of up to 2 kids will be provided
50k of tuition of up to 2 
utilities will be paid by company


Any input will be greatly appreciated.


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## Jynxgirl

How many kids do you have? Tuition for a good western school starts at 35k for the base early years and within 3 or 4 years, you are looking at 45k for each child. Medical can be quite expensive for children and you want all of them covered. So up to 50k is pretty much only going to cover one child that after they are 8 or 9, which I would assume you guys have older children with 8 years experience. 

Is your husband an american or holds a different passport? Seems quite low to me for an american doctor. Is his experience in the usa? If holding a different passport, you are being offered this because of that passport. If not, they are low balling. How does this salary compare to your husbands salary in the usa? 

Overall, is just a low end mid range western family package. Something I would assume a western doctor would pass on. It is so low overall that they probly are not going to come up to a decent offer.


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## maimango

Jynxgirl said:


> How many kids do you have? Tuition for a good western school starts at 35k for the base early years and within 3 or 4 years, you are looking at 45k for each child. Medical can be quite expensive for children and you want all of them covered. So up to 50k is pretty much only going to cover one child that after they are 8 or 9, which I would assume you guys have older children with 8 years experience.
> 
> Is your husband an american or holds a different passport? Seems quite low to me for an american doctor. Is his experience in the usa? If holding a different passport, you are being offered this because of that passport. If not, they are low balling. How does this salary compare to your husbands salary in the usa?
> 
> Overall, is just a low end mid range western family package. Something I would assume a western doctor would pass on. It is so low overall that they probly are not going to come up to a decent offer.


Hi Jynxgirl,
Thanks for taking time to reply, greatly apprreciatred.


We have 3 kids ( 7, 5 & 7 months)
My husband is origianlly from Southeast Asia but holds US Passport and 8 years of experience as a Pediatrician in California.
They are only offering 25k per child per year of up to 2 kids only.
Same thing with the medical insurance, they will only cover my husband, myself and up to 2 kids only. DO you have any idea on how much we would likely have to pay for the monthly premium for our 3rd child?

Transportation allowance is only 7,200/year. I am not sure if they will provide him with a car or not. But I guess not.

More input would be highly appreciated


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## Jynxgirl

How does this package, compare to what you have now? 

You will have to pay right now 35 to 40k for the middle child and 40 to 45k for the older kid. And then your youngest will soon enough be a 3 year old, and you will be paying 30 to 35k for that child then to start school. For health care questions, you can pm elphaba. She handles health care packages as well as financial management. Personally, I think you guys would have to counter that they provide for the entire family's schooling and health care, or decline it. 

Two vehicles is almost a must with children and their activities. Low end car like a corolla is going to run you like 1200 a month if you purchase, 1800-2000 rental, plus salik and maintenance on top of it. Not many people want to put their kids though in a little car though as accidents are a norm here with the crazy driving. 

Plus not to sound snobbish, but your husband is a doctor, why should a doctor just be scimping by ??? This is a very low level middle income package. You guys can counter much higher and then hopefully come down to an agreeable middle but something tells me that they are not going to come so far in the middle.


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## TallyHo

I'm going to have to agree with Jnyx above. 

The offered salary and package is very low for a Western expatriate family, regardless of the profession. It looks like the hospital isn't treating your husband as an US qualified doctor but as an Asian qualified doctor, hence the much lower salary.

In fact, I'd be surprised to hear that your husband doesn't already make more than the offered package back in California.

If I were an US doctor relocating to Dubai I would expect the minimum:

Housing allowance of 250,000 AED (enough for a comfortable 4-bedroom villa in the Meadows/Jumeira/Umm Suqiem, plus money left over to cover the utilities and internet). I wouldn't want the hospital to provide me with a villa as there's no telling where that villa might be - Mirdiff? Garhoud? Al Warqaa? The cheaper and less popular areas as opposed to the nicer parts of town. 

School fees PAID IN FULL by the hospital, plus guaranteed places at the American School of Dubai (whose fees are easily double what allowance is being offered by the hospital, and the school's website is quoting annual tuitions of 70,000 AED per child). If you're coming from a good California school district, ASD is really the only comparable school in Dubai, with the slightly cheaper Dubai American Academy as a possible alternative.

Annual flights back to the US for the entire family. 

Full medical insurance with BUPA with no deductibles. 

I'd also expect the hospital to offer generous car allowances, say at least 5,000 AED/month, which is enough to cover the monthly car payments for two mid-range vehicles. 

Then the base salary: with all the above paid for, I'd still expect 40,000 a month as the base. 

He is selling himself short if he takes the package offered by the hospital. There are plenty of doctors in solo practice, both western and non western qualified, who are doing very well, but the hospital is probably not comparing your husband to those doctors but to the leagues of decent doctors from India or elsewhere in Asia (the very low school fees is probably the telling sign here - it's enough for an Indian international school, but not for a Western international school).


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## maimango

Jynxgirl said:


> How does this package, compare to what you have now?
> 
> You will have to pay right now 35 to 40k for the middle child and 40 to 45k for the older kid. And then your youngest will soon enough be a 3 year old, and you will be paying 30 to 35k for that child then to start school. For health care questions, you can pm elphaba. She handles health care packages as well as financial management. Personally, I think you guys would have to counter that they provide for the entire family's schooling and health care, or decline it.
> 
> Two vehicles is almost a must with children and their activities. Low end car like a corolla is going to run you like 1200 a month if you purchase, 1800-2000 rental, plus salik and maintenance on top of it. Not many people want to put their kids though in a little car though as accidents are a norm here with the crazy driving.
> 
> Plus not to sound snobbish, but your husband is a doctor, why should a doctor just be scimping by ??? This is a very low level middle income package. You guys can counter much higher and then hopefully come down to an agreeable middle but something tells me that they are not going to come so far in the middle.


HI Jynxgirl,

His gross income is way higher than the base salary being offered by the said hospital. But after all the deductions like taxes, medical insurance and 403b (retirement acct) it would come out to almost the same as the base salary being offered.

It looks to me that the only difference in this benefit package to what he is earning right now is just the accommodation, medical insurance (of up to 2 kids only) and tuition (which is only up to 2 kids only).

I am seriously taking all these comoments and information you are all sharing. If there are any points, or people whom you know who also have a good take on this, please let mw know. Thanks once again.


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## maimango

TallyHo said:


> I'm going to have to agree with Jnyx above.
> 
> The offered salary and package is very low for a Western expatriate family, regardless of the profession. It looks like the hospital isn't treating your husband as an US qualified doctor but as an Asian qualified doctor, hence the much lower salary.
> 
> In fact, I'd be surprised to hear that your husband doesn't already make more than the offered package back in California.
> 
> If I were an US doctor relocating to Dubai I would expect the minimum:
> 
> Housing allowance of 250,000 AED (enough for a comfortable 4-bedroom villa in the Meadows/Jumeira/Umm Suqiem, plus money left over to cover the utilities and internet). I wouldn't want the hospital to provide me with a villa as there's no telling where that villa might be - Mirdiff? Garhoud? Al Warqaa? The cheaper and less popular areas as opposed to the nicer parts of town.
> 
> School fees PAID IN FULL by the hospital, plus guaranteed places at the American School of Dubai (whose fees are easily double what allowance is being offered by the hospital, and the school's website is quoting annual tuitions of 70,000 AED per child). If you're coming from a good California school district, ASD is really the only comparable school in Dubai, with the slightly cheaper Dubai American Academy as a possible alternative.
> 
> Annual flights back to the US for the entire family.
> 
> Full medical insurance with BUPA with no deductibles.
> 
> I'd also expect the hospital to offer generous car allowances, say at least 5,000 AED/month, which is enough to cover the monthly car payments for two mid-range vehicles.
> 
> Then the base salary: with all the above paid for, I'd still expect 40,000 a month as the base.
> 
> He is selling himself short if he takes the package offered by the hospital. There are plenty of doctors in solo practice, both western and non western qualified, who are doing very well, but the hospital is probably not comparing your husband to those doctors but to the leagues of decent doctors from India or elsewhere in Asia (the very low school fees is probably the telling sign here - it's enough for an Indian international school, but not for a Western international school).



Hi TallyHo,

I guess you're right. And I appreciate all the figures you are suggesting. I will tell my husband to negotiate with them furthemore. Thanks alot. Should you ahve more info that you would think might help us make a sound decision, please post it here or pm me. Thanks a bunch!!!


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## maimango

Hi tallyHo,

I am sorry if this is out of topic. But since I said in my previous post to pls post or pm me should you have more info that you think might help me. I realized that I cannot send or receive pm yet. I don't know why. So, maybe posting it here might be the better option for now. Thanks once again. WOuld also appreciase if you can answer my question as to why I cannot send/recv pm as of this time.


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## CrowdedHouse

If your husband is already making more money than the total sum of this package, then I don't think it's a good decision to move unless you want to for "life experience."

I think it would be smart to negotiate a better package. Although I don't agree that this is a low middle income package, I don't think it fits a US-board certified doctor.

Companies here like to hire western trained/certified/educated employees to hang their hat on those titles, but they aren't paying them like it anymore. People are desperate to have any job (and Dubai isn't exactly a hardship posting anymore), and they are taking advantage. They will try their best to get you in on the lowest package. *Everything in Dubai is worth negotiating!*

*Re: Medical Insurance*
The last I heard medical insurance is compulsory. That doesn't necessarily mean private insurance, the company can get you a government health card. This would entitle your child access to free immunizations. Also emergency room visits are free. So if you are willing to be flexible, there are options.

*Re: salary here vs. back home*
As an American passport holder he is still entitled to pay taxes on worldwide income. You might want to speak to a financial advisor who specializes in US tax for expats as to how this would affect you re: your husband's package offer.

*Re: Schools*
Schooling isn't compulsory until 5 years old. You might not be here that long to worry about that as a deal breaker. I mention it because you might want to focus most on the private medical insurance and salary.

(You can't send PMs because your post count is too low)


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## Jynxgirl

Once you reached your fifth post, the pm facility becomes active after a few min/hours of the system going through the motions. Now you are up and running.


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## TallyHo

I may have come across as a bit demanding in my post as regards to what your husband should expect from his employers. 

It's true that there are many different kinds of packages and people have made Dubai work for them on packages smaller than yours. But a lot of determines what you should reasonably expect from the employers will be based on the current value of your husband as a trained medical professional, and your willingness to move all the way from California to Dubai.

To put it simply, don't come to Dubai for the 'experience.' You come here for the money, period. You can have a good experience and learn many things about different people, cultures and regions by living in Dubai, but if the money isn't good enough, it's not worth it.

Your husband is already making a comfortable income in California. What will it take for him to leave his job and his community to move to Dubai? You must associate a monetary value to that decision. 

As it stands, what the hospital is offering is really not enough to justify moving to Dubai. A good portion of the 'tax free' component of his income will easily be eaten up by paying all the extra school fees out of pocket. The benefits don't match what the reality is going to be for a western couple - the low transportation allowance and school fees are laughable.

However, it's also useful not to be too obsessed with the fine details of the specific breakdown of the package into housing, base salary, schooling, transportation etc. Calculate what the overall value of that package is and then work backwards from it. The school fees may be low, but if the base salary was increased by X amount to cover the gap, then that's an arrangement that may work. 

When you do your research while in the negotiation stages, you should figure out how much the following will cost in Dubai:

1. School fees (only two reasonable options for the US curriculum - American School of Dubai and Dubai American Academy. Other US curriculum schools include Bradenton Prep and Collegiate American School). You can find their fees online.

2. Nursery fees.

3. Transportation expenses. This is an area that depends up to you: what kind of cars do you currently drive and would want to drive in Dubai? What are you happy with? Can you buy in cash or must you take out a loan? Still, in moving to a strange country I'd expect to be able to buy new cars. As mentioned in an earlier post, 5,000 AED is enough to cover the monthly payments on two mid-range cars bought for 100K AED each with 30% down.

4. Housing: the hospital is offering a villa and will pay for the utilities. This is actually a very nice benefit - but it depends where the villa is. If it's in the following areas: Jumeriah, Umm Suqeim, Al Manara, Al Sufouh, Arabian Ranches, Meadows, Lakes, Victory Heights, then you should be fine. If it's outside those areas odds are it's in a less desirable part of the city and while safe, may not be what you moved all the way to Dubai for. In lieu of a hospital villa, a housing allowance that covers the rent + utilities on a 4-bedroom villa in Jumeira, Meadows, Arabian Ranches, Umm Suqeim - where one expects an upper middle class doctor and his family to live, will be around 250,000 AED.

5. Cost of flight tickets back to California once a year for the entire family.

Add up all the above. How much does it add up to? 

Then figure out what the base should be assuming all the above is covered by the hospital. If components of it are not, then how much money needs to be added to the base salary to compensate for it? 

What the base needs to cover:

1. Food/Entertainment/Petrol/Daily expenses. At least 5,000 AED/month.

2. Holidays abroad. 

3. Maid (not required but nice to have). 35,000 AED/year for a full time live in maid + sponsorship fees. Alternative is a once weekly daily woman for 120 AED/week. 

Drum roll...

Ta de dah

4. Savings.

That's the whole point of coming to Dubai and making money is to go home with savings at the end of the day, isn't it?


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## maimango

I do appreciate all the advice and input. The main reason Dubai came to our mind is because of stories we hear from friends which sound promising for someone who really needs to save money. As you know, we are one of the so many in the USA who got hit by the recent housing slump. Years worth of savings we put in the purchase of a house just before the housing bubble burst went gone just like that. After all the dust had settled, we could not even buy a new house due to bad credit and who knows how long it will clear. So making the story short, we would like to see if Dubai is really that promising.





CrowdedHouse said:


> If your husband is already making more money than the total sum of this package, then I don't think it's a good decision to move unless you want to for "life experience."
> 
> I think it would be smart to negotiate a better package. Although I don't agree that this is a low middle income package, I don't think it fits a US-board certified doctor.
> 
> Companies here like to hire western trained/certified/educated employees to hang their hat on those titles, but they aren't paying them like it anymore. People are desperate to have any job (and Dubai isn't exactly a hardship posting anymore), and they are taking advantage. They will try their best to get you in on the lowest package. *Everything in Dubai is worth negotiating!*
> 
> *Re: Medical Insurance*
> The last I heard medical insurance is compulsory. That doesn't necessarily mean private insurance, the company can get you a government health card. This would entitle your child access to free immunizations. Also emergency room visits are free. So if you are willing to be flexible, there are options.
> 
> *Re: salary here vs. back home*
> As an American passport holder he is still entitled to pay taxes on worldwide income. You might want to speak to a financial advisor who specializes in US tax for expats as to how this would affect you re: your husband's package offer.
> 
> *Re: Schools*
> Schooling isn't compulsory until 5 years old. You might not be here that long to worry about that as a deal breaker. I mention it because you might want to focus most on the private medical insurance and salary.
> 
> (You can't send PMs because your post count is too low)


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## maimango

Thank you so much for your well expounded pointers. Now I feel I am more informed to guide my husband with our decisions in negotiating with their offer. You can't be more correct about the reason a US citizen, leaving all their comfort zone, would go Dubai or any mid-east places for that matter. Monetary value has a lot to do with it. Thanks again.



TallyHo said:


> I may have come across as a bit demanding in my post as regards to what your husband should expect from his employers.
> 
> It's true that there are many different kinds of packages and people have made Dubai work for them on packages smaller than yours. But a lot of determines what you should reasonably expect from the employers will be based on the current value of your husband as a trained medical professional, and your willingness to move all the way from California to Dubai.
> 
> To put it simply, don't come to Dubai for the 'experience.' You come here for the money, period. You can have a good experience and learn many things about different people, cultures and regions by living in Dubai, but if the money isn't good enough, it's not worth it.
> 
> Your husband is already making a comfortable income in California. What will it take for him to leave his job and his community to move to Dubai? You must associate a monetary value to that decision.
> 
> As it stands, what the hospital is offering is really not enough to justify moving to Dubai. A good portion of the 'tax free' component of his income will easily be eaten up by paying all the extra school fees out of pocket. The benefits don't match what the reality is going to be for a western couple - the low transportation allowance and school fees are laughable.
> 
> However, it's also useful not to be too obsessed with the fine details of the specific breakdown of the package into housing, base salary, schooling, transportation etc. Calculate what the overall value of that package is and then work backwards from it. The school fees may be low, but if the base salary was increased by X amount to cover the gap, then that's an arrangement that may work.
> 
> When you do your research while in the negotiation stages, you should figure out how much the following will cost in Dubai:
> 
> 1. School fees (only two reasonable options for the US curriculum - American School of Dubai and Dubai American Academy. Other US curriculum schools include Bradenton Prep and Collegiate American School). You can find their fees online.
> 
> 2. Nursery fees.
> 
> 3. Transportation expenses. This is an area that depends up to you: what kind of cars do you currently drive and would want to drive in Dubai? What are you happy with? Can you buy in cash or must you take out a loan? Still, in moving to a strange country I'd expect to be able to buy new cars. As mentioned in an earlier post, 5,000 AED is enough to cover the monthly payments on two mid-range cars bought for 100K AED each with 30% down.
> 
> 4. Housing: the hospital is offering a villa and will pay for the utilities. This is actually a very nice benefit - but it depends where the villa is. If it's in the following areas: Jumeriah, Umm Suqeim, Al Manara, Al Sufouh, Arabian Ranches, Meadows, Lakes, Victory Heights, then you should be fine. If it's outside those areas odds are it's in a less desirable part of the city and while safe, may not be what you moved all the way to Dubai for. In lieu of a hospital villa, a housing allowance that covers the rent + utilities on a 4-bedroom villa in Jumeira, Meadows, Arabian Ranches, Umm Suqeim - where one expects an upper middle class doctor and his family to live, will be around 250,000 AED.
> 
> 5. Cost of flight tickets back to California once a year for the entire family.
> 
> Add up all the above. How much does it add up to?
> 
> Then figure out what the base should be assuming all the above is covered by the hospital. If components of it are not, then how much money needs to be added to the base salary to compensate for it?
> 
> What the base needs to cover:
> 
> 1. Food/Entertainment/Petrol/Daily expenses. At least 5,000 AED/month.
> 
> 2. Holidays abroad.
> 
> 3. Maid (not required but nice to have). 35,000 AED/year for a full time live in maid + sponsorship fees. Alternative is a once weekly daily woman for 120 AED/week.
> 
> Drum roll...
> 
> Ta de dah
> 
> 4. Savings.
> 
> That's the whole point of coming to Dubai and making money is to go home with savings at the end of the day, isn't it?


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