# Why do you want to come to the UK?



## voltron (Aug 19, 2010)

I saw this article on msn:

Great Britain is 'worst place to live in Europe' -  UK News - MSN News UK

and it got me thinking as to why so many people want to come to the UK.. i can see the value in free schooling nhs etc but this article paints it pretty bad.

I grew up in the UK and left a year ago so obviously im bias.. 

Why do you want to come? 

p.s im not a hater and although i left there are many good points that outshine cyprus and vice versa..


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## Lohi (Jul 10, 2010)

Well i dont know about other people reasons for wanting to move to the UK but for me apart from better income i feel that i would be in a better position for eventual job interviews within mainland europe(read cheaper airfares) or within UK itself(my arms are killing me rowing accross the channel


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## US-UK (May 11, 2010)

When I started looking into moving to the UK, the two things I heard and read the most were it's expensive and there is a better quality of life. 

Now, there's no question that things are very expensive compared to the US, housing obviously being the most common topic. I haven't seen every little thing yet, but fuel, transportation and I'm sure some additional common things are as well. I knew this going in and am more than OK with that. Obviously there are certain things you can do to offset some of that. Modest place to live, economical vehicle, if any at all, and so on.

In terms of quality of life, I suppose that depends on what your definition of a quality life means. To each their own in that regard.

As far as why I want to move there? It gives me a chance to basically see the world really. I'm not really planted here so there's nothing holding me from moving out there. There is also career opportunity that I can't ignore. 

I can't really better explain it, but it's a lot deeper than that.


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## voltron (Aug 19, 2010)

Some very good points. the uk for air travel is a dream! its cheap and you can fly anywhere.. In cyprus it is pretty limited and often cheaper to fly to the uk and then to wherever you ant to go. 

As for expensive, the uk is actually very very cheap compared to the rest of europe for food and daily living. Obviously london is a different story but generally the uk is very affordable.. I did a road trip to spain last year from the uk and i would leave supermarkets almost in tears at the cost..


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think it depends largely on what people are leaving behind to come to UK. For those living in the Third World, where even life's necessities aren't guaranteed and where war and violence are a daily occurence, UK seems like heaven with a stable society, much higher standard of living and better future for their children, compared to back home where life expectancy is barely 50 with primitive or no health care and scarcely adequate education. Hence the endless stream of would-be refugees camping out in Calais trying their luck for a free passage. They are also taught that UK is more welcoming to foreigners than other countries in Europe, many have friends and relatives already settled here and English for many is their second language.

When it comes to people from other developed countries, reasons for choosing UK vary a lot. Some want greater opportunities for travel, culture and history, particularly those from Australia and New Zealand. Some Americans are attracted to UK as an antidote to the overtly nationalistic and materialistic US society. Others want the reassurance of an English-speaking country in Europe, many with ancestral links. Economic migrants from poorer EU countries come to UK for jobs, better pay and conditions, where there are fewer barriers than in many other established EU countries.

Whether all those diverse groups of people find what they are looking for once they arrive in UK is another matter. Attitude of native Britons towards newcomers has definitely hardened in recent years, and xenophobia and racism aren't hard to find, whether overt (like BNP) or covert (e.g. jobs and flats seemingly unavailable if you are black). And if you are running away from something in your country, you may find other things which are just as annoying and irritating in UK.


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## helricha (Sep 18, 2010)

My only reason for coming to the UK is that my husband lives there and he is required to stay there for a few more years due to work obligations. I met him in the states while he was on holiday and the relationship flourished from there. 

I am trying to keep an open mind about moving there as I have only visited and that gives me no real insight into life in the uk.
However, my pay will take a tremendous drop while I will be doing the same thing that I do here. And of course the VAT is quite a pain. 
The opportunity to be close to places that I can travel to is nice. And it will be a wonderful experience for my 13-year-old. 

And I am still remaining open to the idea that I might want to stay in the uk after my husband's work obligation is over. The grass isn't always greener on the other side but sometimes it is.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

I lived in London for seven years.

I was young, free (ish) and childless. I really enjoyed my time there. I worked a lot, office job during the week and waitressing job for the weekends, but I also had Lots of fun!

Probably the best thing of living in UK was the paycheck at the end of each month.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

voltron said:


> Some very good points. the uk for air travel is a dream! its cheap and you can fly anywhere.. In cyprus it is pretty limited and often cheaper to fly to the uk and then to wherever you ant to go.
> 
> As for expensive, the uk is actually very very cheap compared to the rest of europe for food and daily living. Obviously london is a different story but generally the uk is very affordable.. *I did a road trip to spain last year from the uk and i would leave supermarkets almost in tears at the cost*..


now that's interesting

I live in Spain but was in the UK last weekend & did a supermarket shop with my dad

I was horrified at the price of things in the UK - & more than that at the poor quality!!!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I didn't have any choice, I was born there


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## bunty16 (Sep 26, 2009)

I have a place in Italy, but have had to return to uk as my husband became very ill and felt due to limited italian he felt in this situation he was best here, It is hard to learn the lingo and find your way around things to enable you to live fully there and not as a holiday maker. So that is his reason, me, well I would prefer to be there, yes the food is more expensive and not as much choice in the supermarkets, but when you start to shop like the locals, you can live quite well, and you start to realise how crude it is to have 2-3 rows of different types of crisps, or so many varieties of pet food etc., you do not need all of this, and you can really have a healthier diet, eating seasonal fruit & veg, they import less food, and sell little processed food. Another reason for not living in the UK is the health and safety rubbish, the overload of invasion into your privacy, re cctv etc., There is a massive presence of police in Italy, but less dominating, often seen in a local bar having coffee with something 'strong' added! However, try and get a decent writing pad there, or good quality inexpensive clothes, so when in the uk, I stock up on toiletries and clothes etc., So wherever you live there are for's and against, you have to tot up, if too many 'against' on your list, move away, it's cheap and incredibly easy to to, and your compromise, a cheap flight back to uk to visit and stock up!!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> now that's interesting
> 
> I live in Spain but was in the UK last weekend & did a supermarket shop with my dad
> 
> I was horrified at the price of things in the UK - & more than that at the poor quality!!!



I'll second that! The UK supermarkets are not as cheap as they are in Spain. Altho prices have gone up in Spain in recent months/years, they are still a little cheaper than the UK. My husband commutes from the UK every week and always does a price check to compare. Also petrol/diesel is still a tad dearer there. Gas, council tax, cigarettes and alcohol are a lot dearer. Electrical goods and games are cheaper tho


Jo xxx


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jojo said:


> I'll second that! The UK supermarkets are not as cheap as they are in Spain. Altho prices have gone up in Spain in recent months/years, they are still a little cheaper than the UK. My husband commutes from the UK every week and always does a price check to compare. Also petrol/diesel is still a tad dearer there. Gas, council tax, cigarettes and alcohol are a lot dearer. Electrical goods and games are cheaper tho
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Me too, every thing here is far cheaper than England petrol 91 cents deisel 74 cents,

Booze is far far cheaper, fruit and veg ridiculously cheap prices.

However I cannot get a Pork Pie anywhere!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hepa said:


> Me too, every thing here is far cheaper than England petrol 91 cents deisel 74 cents,
> 
> Booze is far far cheaper, fruit and veg ridiculously cheap prices.
> 
> However I cannot get a Pork Pie anywhere!!


We sell em in my bakery!! Home made/well hand made Melton Mowbray Pork Pie!

Jo xxxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Me too, every thing here is far cheaper than England petrol 91 cents deisel 74 cents,
> 
> Booze is far far cheaper, fruit and veg ridiculously cheap prices.
> 
> However I cannot get a Pork Pie anywhere!!


you could try making them


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pppppssssssttttt, we're in the British Forum :tape: 
:focus:

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> pppppssssssttttt, we're in the British Forum :tape:
> :focus:
> 
> Jo xxx


oh yeah

one thing my girls were amazed at was the range of stuff in Sainsburys


not amazed enough to want to go back & live there though....................


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> you could try making them


Yes, but there isn't a pork pie quite like those made in West Yorkshire


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Yes, but there isn't a pork pie quite like those made in West Yorkshire


personally I can't stand them


Ginsters Cornish pasties though....................


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## voltron (Aug 19, 2010)

Well i dunno?? I was near zaragosa and a weekly shop was 400 euros and would notmally be 100quid in uk.. either an expensive place or i paid double for being English??


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## bunty16 (Sep 26, 2009)

voltron said:


> Well i dunno?? I was near zaragosa and a weekly shop was 400 euros and would notmally be 100quid in uk.. either an expensive place or i paid double for being English??


 What on earth did you buy? was it english products (which would cost) there must be something in your shopping trolley that was not essential, in the uk I have noticed now that I shop in italy the rubbish that is bought in uk, not essential to survive, perhaps you have got used to luxuries, if not willing to give them up be willing to pay the price, another reason might be where you shop, is it a tourist place? or very isolated from other supermarkets so no healthy competition, you may need to go a bit further for your shopping, I doubt you will have charged extra for being english, that is usually done by trademen or corrupt english people exploiting new ex-pats.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

voltron said:


> Well i dunno?? I was near zaragosa and a weekly shop was 400 euros and would notmally be 100quid in uk.. either an expensive place or i paid double for being English??


it must have been an English place selling English goods??

yes - of course you can pay a lot extra for imported stuff

I rarely spend 100 euros for a weeks shopping for 4 of us - it's usually considerably less - but then I shop in a Spanish supermarket


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

..... to add tho, the one thing that the UK does have are more offers, you know, buy on get one free, buy two get the third free..... Then the prices are a bit cheaper, but not much and only if you become a slave to the offers. But like xabiachica, we're a family of four and I spend well under 100€ a week - we average 60€ ish??, altho my husband is in the UK for half the time, so I suppose theres only really three of us?? and thats mainly in Mercadonna or Carrefour! 

Jo xxx


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## Isualt (Jan 22, 2010)

jojo said:


> ..... to add tho, the one thing that the UK does have are more offers, you know, buy on get one free, buy two get the third free..... Then the prices are a bit cheaper, but not much and only if you become a slave to the offers. But like xabiachica, we're a family of four and I spend well under 100€ a week - we average 60€ ish??, altho my husband is in the UK for half the time, so I suppose theres only really three of us?? and thats mainly in Mercadonna or Carrefour!
> 
> Jo xxx


Why do Expat Brits go on and on about supermarkets? The forums are full of it. Surly one of the joys of living out of the UK is to experience fresh locally produced food and not give profits to the supermarkets who screw producers especially those in the developing world.

Here in France Brits even get deliveries from Tesco brought over. And if I hear another" I feed a family of four on €60 a week"... No other nationality appears to be "addicted" to supermarkets.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Isualt said:


> Why do Expat Brits go on and on about supermarkets? The forums are full of it. Surly one of the joys of living out of the UK is to experience fresh locally produced food and not give profits to the supermarkets who screw producers especially those in the developing world.
> 
> Here in France Brits even get deliveries from Tesco brought over. And if I hear another" I feed a family of four on €60 a week"... No other nationality appears to be "addicted" to supermarkets.


The Supermarket is obviously a British favourite!! Its probably the pace of life in the UK. We rush into a supermarket and everything is there, ready and waiting. No need to wander around markets and shops in the cold and rain choosing our dinners when we're in a hurry to get home!

Jo xxxx


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## Isualt (Jan 22, 2010)

jojo said:


> The Supermarket is obviously a British favourite!! Its probably the pace of life in the UK. We rush into a supermarket and everything is there, ready and waiting. No need to wander around markets and shops in the cold and rain choosing our dinners when we're in a hurry to get home!
> 
> Jo xxxx


This is the same anywhere and I never found that shopping in a supermarket is quicker - but the basket usually contained more than I intended to buy! 

Busy working people here in mainland Europe will shop in small local shops and markets, and as to UK markets, there are farmer's markets in the UK almost everywhere.

Maybe they all rush home to watch the brainwashing adverts by the big supermarkets on TV!


Cheers
Isualt


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Isualt said:


> This is the same anywhere and I never found that shopping in a supermarket is quicker - but the basket usually contained more than I intended to buy!
> 
> Busy working people here in mainland Europe will shop in small local shops and markets, and as to UK markets, there are farmer's markets in the UK almost everywhere.
> 
> ...


You're not a fan of the supermarket are you LOL. Neither am I, altho I find them quick and convenient, I also feel that theres a world domination issue going on 

Jo xxx


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## Isualt (Jan 22, 2010)

jojo said:


> You're not a fan of the supermarket are you LOL. Neither am I, altho I find them quick and convenient, I also feel that theres a world domination issue going on
> 
> Jo xxx


I am just fascinated by on so many forums Brits living out of the UK continually going on about supermarkets. We all miss favourite foods and cannot wait until a visitor brings them over. But why do Brits want to buy food weekly from Tesco and have it shipped to France, Spain etc ?

Yes, not too keen on supermarkets and their lack of ethical and moral business methods...

Cheers,

Isualt


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## bunty16 (Sep 26, 2009)

Isualt said:


> Why do Expat Brits go on and on about supermarkets? The forums are full of it. Surly one of the joys of living out of the UK is to experience fresh locally produced food and not give profits to the supermarkets who screw producers especially those in the developing world.
> 
> Here in France Brits even get deliveries from Tesco brought over. And if I hear another" I feed a family of four on €60 a week"... No other nationality appears to be "addicted" to supermarkets.


Everyone has to eat!! you are fortunate if you have markets/individual shops near to you, the supermarkets near to where I live sell mainly fresh local produce, they are not massive organisations and would hate it for them to infiltrate into the counrty, as for those who have tesco shipped in, they should hang their heads in shame, the wonderful thing about travel is eating the local food, also this site is to support and help each other, you do not have tolike everything that is written.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Isualt said:


> Why do Expat Brits go on and on about supermarkets? The forums are full of it. Surly one of the joys of living out of the UK is to experience fresh locally produced food and not give profits to the supermarkets who screw producers especially those in the developing world.
> 
> Here in France Brits even get deliveries from Tesco brought over. And if I hear another" I feed a family of four on €60 a week"... No other nationality appears to be "addicted" to supermarkets.


we all have to buy food & it's the easiest thing to compare!


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## Isualt (Jan 22, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> we all have to buy food & it's the easiest thing to compare!


Hi,

Yes, I understand, but why is it only Brits who spend a great deal of time on forums discussing shopping in supermarkets? However, UK ferry companies have been kept in business for years by taking Brits to the huge French Channel port supermarkets to stock up.

Recently neighbours called me and asked if I would email a UK company who bring orders to France (placed with UK supermarkets) saying I would use them . It appears currently the company does not deliver this far south, but if enough people order they will bring groceries from the UK weekly. This would involve bringing food 800 miles to an area which grows almost enough food to feed France! 

Isualt


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## vivkiik (Oct 6, 2010)

Joppa said:


> I think it depends largely on what people are leaving behind to come to UK. For those living in the Third World, where even life's necessities aren't guaranteed and where war and violence are a daily occurence, UK seems like heaven with a stable society, much higher standard of living and better future for their children, compared to back home where life expectancy is barely 50 with primitive or no health care and scarcely adequate education. Hence the endless stream of would-be refugees camping out in Calais trying their luck for a free passage. They are also taught that UK is more welcoming to foreigners than other countries in Europe, many have friends and relatives already settled here and English for many is their second language.
> 
> When it comes to people from other developed countries, reasons for choosing UK vary a lot. Some want greater opportunities for travel, culture and history, particularly those from Australia and New Zealand. Some Americans are attracted to UK as an antidote to the overtly nationalistic and materialistic US society. Others want the reassurance of an English-speaking country in Europe, many with ancestral links. Economic migrants from poorer EU countries come to UK for jobs, better pay and conditions, where there are fewer barriers than in many other established EU countries.
> 
> Whether all those diverse groups of people find what they are looking for once they arrive in UK is another matter. Attitude of native Britons towards newcomers has definitely hardened in recent years, and xenophobia and racism aren't hard to find, whether overt (like BNP) or covert (e.g. jobs and flats seemingly unavailable if you are black). And if you are running away from something in your country, you may find other things which are just as annoying and irritating in UK.


I completely agree Joppa! But, I would only include that people from developed countries are also leaving for UK for better quality of life and for economics. 

I am an American and I want to move to the UK because standard of life is dropping dramatically in the US and my fear that it is only going to get worse in the near future. I live in Wash D.C. and our waterways are toxic (drinking tap water here is not advisable), cost-of-living is high and rising, education and healthcare standards are falling. I consider myself fortunate to live in Wash DC because the quality of life is much worse in other parts of the US. I realize that the UK has many of the same issues, but their standards are much higher than the US. We work longer hours and more days than our European counterparts. The US healthcare system is appalling. Although the taxes are higher in the UK, we receive much less in terms of benefits.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

vivkiik said:


> I completely agree Joppa! But, I would only include that people from developed countries are also leaving for UK for better quality of life and for economics.
> 
> I am an American and I want to move to the UK because standard of life is dropping dramatically in the US and my fear that it is only going to get worse in the near future. I live in Wash D.C. and our waterways are toxic (drinking tap water here is not advisable), cost-of-living is high and rising, education and healthcare standards are falling. I consider myself fortunate to live in Wash DC because the quality of life is much worse in other parts of the US. I realize that the UK has many of the same issues, but their standards are much higher than the US. We work longer hours and more days than our European counterparts. The US healthcare system is appalling. Although the taxes are higher in the UK, we receive much less in terms of benefits.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Your points are from the USA - to many people living in the UK, the opposite is true, the USA seems much more advanced, cheaper, cleaner, higher living standards, lower cost of living...???!! I think the grass is always greener on the other side. My daughters always do a major shop when they fly to the states (They're air hostesses), cos everything is so much cheaper there

Jo xxx


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## vivkiik (Oct 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Your points are from the USA - to many people living in the UK, the opposite is true, the USA seems much more advanced, cheaper, cleaner, higher living standards, lower cost of living...???!! I think the grass is always greener on the other side. My daughters always do a major shop when they fly to the states (They're air hostesses), cos everything is so much cheaper there
> 
> Jo xxx


I take your point that the grass usually look greener but somethings are facts. The US has one of worst healthcare system out of all developed countries and we pay a lot more. We work longer hours and work more days than our European counterparts, our education system (primary and secondary) is one of the worse. And, we pay much for university (college) tuition. I also am uncomfortable with the fact that so many US companies add preservatives to our food (bread should not last for months in the fridge!). 

It may be cheaper for a Brit to shop in the US because the pound is worth more but price of clothes are pretty comparable.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

vivkiik said:


> I take your point that the grass usually look greener but somethings are facts. The US has one of worst healthcare system out of all developed countries and we pay a lot more. We work longer hours and work more days than our European counterparts, our education system (primary and secondary) is one of the worse. And, we pay much for university (college) tuition. I also am uncomfortable with the fact that so many US companies add preservatives to our food (bread should not last for months in the fridge!).
> 
> It may be cheaper for a Brit to shop in the US because the pound is worth more but price of clothes are pretty comparable.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum



We'll have to agree to disagree cos neither of us know what its like to live on both sides of "the pond"... Yet! maybe you'll find out one day???. But your words are exactly the same as many, many, many British people - especially about the healthcare, the education and the cost of universities................................!!

Jo xxx


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## vivkiik (Oct 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree cos neither of us know what its like to live on both sides of "the pond"... Yet! maybe you'll find out one day???. But your words are exactly the same as many, many, many British people - especially about the healthcare, the education and the cost of universities................................!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks JoJo! I hope to be "eating my words" very soon!

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

In my circle of friends most came here to study, stayed on to work and/or ended up marrying brits or other europeans.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Confining my argument between US and UK, one of the main reasons why Americans fancy living in UK is to get away from the obsession, as they see it, with material things like pursuit of profit at all costs, employers making staff work all hours for a pittance (and expect customers to make up the poor pay through excessive tips) and keeping up with neighbours in what they own - the latest car, the latest gadgets etc. You can say that some of those things are now evident in UK, but perhaps not to the same extent. There is still a large sector of public services such as health, social care and education, which most Britons regard as their birthright and are willing to pay through their taxes, and perhaps a more detached attitude to wealth, not as be all and end all but as something nice to have but not at the expense of relationships, family life, good neighbouriness and environment. The British individualism, the refusal to conform to corporate mores and the free spirit are still what make UK a fascinating country to live in and experience.


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## Mic1 (Oct 30, 2011)

Joppa's comments make very good sense. The desire to explore new territory is something of a human condition. The UK is desirable for some because it's peaceful, there're no conflicts, it's clean, not too many poisonous creatures or natural disasters to contend with.

For some people that would mean a lot.


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## Mayhem (Sep 10, 2010)

voltron said:


> I saw this article on msn:
> 
> Great Britain is 'worst place to live in Europe' - *UK News - MSN News UK
> 
> ...


I came here for work. Having never been here before I was excited to live outside of New Zealand & Australia. With my British Passport in hand I was intent on making the most of the experience and looking forward to staying on for 3-5 years.

12 months down the track I've been asked to go home (to Australia). Although I'm entitled to stay and live here as long as I want, I'm very much looking forward to returning home. Taking a local job would result in me taking a MASSIVE pay cut (50%) and the quality of life (in London) is not nearly as good as it is in Australia.

Most of my colleagues (degree-qualified professionals) here in London are living in shared accommodation, out of necessity. Thanks to the outrageously high rents here in London they have absolutely no chance of getting enough money together for a mortgage and most are waiting for a family member to 'drop off the perch'.

Those who are not paying a fortune for rent are living over an hour (each away) from work. This means that they spend most of their on the way to work, at work or coming home from work. People do it very hard over here, by comparison.

If nothing else it has made me appreciate what I've come from and where I want to live in the long term. I am, however, planning to change cities when I get back.


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## US-UK (May 11, 2010)

Today is my one year anniversary in moving to the UK. So, some observations if I may touching on quality of life comments...

Before I moved, I constantly saw comments on how much better quality of life was here. I, even then, had a hard time determining what that meant. The short of it is this: it means whatever you want it to be. There was something just in the news a day or two ago about some poll that said either London had the lowest quality of live in the UK or the UK had the lowest in the whole of the EU. Maybe its that link as above. But, I have no idea what that means. Does that mean the luxury of having a car? Big TV, house/flat? Short commute to work? Quiet neighborhoods? Cheap food? 

Personally, I think it's just about the same though I will say that car ownership is ridiculously expensive. I feel I'm doing better off here though than I was back in the States, strictly from a monetary perspective. I haven't quite figured out how given the general costs of things, but on the flipside, some things are less expensive than their American counterparts. 

I enjoyed living back in the States and I will be there again someday, but for now, I'm taking this opportunity for what it's worth...an opportunity and making the most of it. I think if you get hung up on the comparisons like I did when I first got here, you'll drive yourself crazy. Just take things for what they are and live with it. If you don't like it, then move back. If you're stuck here, well, do the best you can to deal with it. Travel is cheap. Take advantage of it. There are plenty of things to do around here that you can probably carry over with you.


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

I am making the move all the way from Perth Australia in my 60's.
I have finally sorted out which visa to get so I can work, Australia is very expensive and with the sun comes flys, with the heat there is isolation as everyone stays indoors in the over inflated property they have paid a small fortune for ($450000 average in a working class suburb) under the aircon, snakes, redbacks etc make it unpleasant to go for a walk, if I want to go to the other side of the country to visit my kids it is the same return airfare as coming from Britian return (of course the journey is shorter) & most importantly the place is full of Poms so if I want to live where everyone has a different accent I may as well go there. 
At least I can nip abroad for next to nixs, hopefully can get a small job to meet lots of folk as I am coming on my own, shop at the supermarket for way less, buy a property with character for 1/4 of the price and travel the country very cheaply.


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## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

voltron said:


> I saw this article on msn:
> 
> Great Britain is 'worst place to live in Europe' - *UK News - MSN News UK
> 
> ...


For me, it’s because it’s home. Has been since I sailed into Scotland oh so many years ago. When I left after 3-years to go back to the US I did not know I would be returning 4-years later, and the second I set foot back in GB again, again I was home. Now I have my plans to get back there, to go back home –because damn it I miss it.


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

Gairloch makes a good point. I am English through and through. However, I have spent a fair proportion of my 53 years living elsewhere, often falling in love with the people and places. But none have been "home". I can give examples, for instance no pub overseas (or those here which cater for tourists) quite have the ambiance of my local. Working class and qluiquey they may not seem welcoming to many...but they are to me.
Even though I'll eventually retire in Malaysia, and I'll love being there, likely die there, I will always be English and London will always be home.w


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Home*



gairloch said:


> For me, it’s because it’s home. Has been since I sailed into Scotland oh so many years ago. When I left after 3-years to go back to the US I did not know I would be returning 4-years later, and the second I set foot back in GB again, again I was home. Now I have my plans to get back there, to go back home –because damn it I miss it.


Strangely I feel that way about the UK & Sydney even though I have never lived any great period of time in the UK, I feel like my feet connect with the earth there.
I hope your plans to return Gairloch give you everything you have dreamt of while being away.


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## jaysonjaz (Nov 7, 2011)

vivkiik said:


> I completely agree Joppa! But, I would only include that people from developed countries are also leaving for UK for better quality of life and for economics.
> 
> I am an American and I want to move to the UK because standard of life is dropping dramatically in the US and my fear that it is only going to get worse in the near future. I live in Wash D.C. and our waterways are toxic (drinking tap water here is not advisable), cost-of-living is high and rising, education and healthcare standards are falling. I consider myself fortunate to live in Wash DC because the quality of life is much worse in other parts of the US. I realize that the UK has many of the same issues, but their standards are much higher than the US. We work longer hours and more days than our European counterparts. The US healthcare system is appalling. Although the taxes are higher in the UK, we receive much less in terms of benefits.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


This nails down a lot of the reasons why I want to relocate my family to the UK. 

America has a good reputation internationally, but I can't help but feel that politicians and big corporations are destroying what made this place so good in the past. I feel like my kids are growing up in a place that is markedly less free than the place I grew up in and things are showing no sign of turn around anytime soon. 

I know the UK isn't perfect, but its a good place with good people and that I think we'll feel at home.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

gairloch said:


> For me, it’s because it’s home. Has been since I sailed into Scotland oh so many years ago. When I left after 3-years to go back to the US I did not know I would be returning 4-years later, and the second I set foot back in GB again, again I was home. Now I have my plans to get back there, to go back home –because damn it I miss it.




Hence the name Gairloch or should it be Gareloch?


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## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> Hence the name Gairloch or should it be Gareloch?


No, it's gairloch all right. Also here

Gare loch would someplace different


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

gairloch said:


> No, it's gairloch all right. Also here
> 
> Gare loch would someplace different




Hi Yes I am aware as I am from Argyll, I thought wrongly.. American sailing in, Holy Loch or the Gareloch


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## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

They are all lovely aren’t they?
[it _was _Holyloch the first time I went bu they are all beautiful places]. I still have a head full of memories of standing out in the early morning looking up the loch. Everytime I've gone back it's as FreeSpirit1 said 'my feet connect with the arth there. Not to say England and Wales don’t have their lovely spots but Scotland is a special place on earth (to me any way).


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Gairloch*



gairloch said:


> They are all lovely aren’t they?
> [it _was _Holyloch the first time I went bu they are all beautiful places]. I still have a head full of memories of standing out in the early morning looking up the loch. Everytime I've gone back it's as FreeSpirit1 said 'my feet connect with the arth there. Not to say England and Wales don’t have their lovely spots but Scotland is a special place on earth (to me any way).


I lived in a street called Gairloch Place in Perth, Australia - it actually had nice friendly neighbors.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

gairloch said:


> They are all lovely aren’t they?
> [it _was _Holyloch the first time I went bu they are all beautiful places]. I still have a head full of memories of standing out in the early morning looking up the loch. Everytime I've gone back it's as FreeSpirit1 said 'my feet connect with the arth there. Not to say England and Wales don’t have their lovely spots but Scotland is a special place on earth (to me any way).


I lived in Ardentinny.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

FreeSpirit1 said:


> I lived in a street called Gairloch Place in Perth, Australia - it actually had nice friendly neighbors.


Scots are friendly


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

*Why would I want to come to UK*

I visited London twice, both trips were week-long trips. I fell in love with the place. I love how international, green, artsy and beautiful London is. I have lived in US for almost 20 years now, 11 of those downtown Chicago. My husband has a great job opportunity in London that he is thinking of taking. We are just scared of the overall move and how things will end up working out. We also have a 14-month-old son and own an apartment here, so it is scary to give up a comfortable settled life. Yet, there is something very attractive about London. I know I probably sound very naive and romantic, but the city just has this great vibe. NY, Paris other place we have travelled to don't have it. Our only concern is that everyone is complaining about the cost of living there. And, especially we are concerned about real estate and finding a good school for our son. Otherwise, we would be on a plane tomorrow. We also have a lot of friends living there. I don't know... maybe someone could convince me that it is going to be ok). After all, we can always come back to Chicago.


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

*A Leap of Faith*



chicago said:


> I visited London twice, both trips were week-long trips. I fell in love with the place. I love how international, green, artsy and beautiful London is. I have lived in US for almost 20 years now, 11 of those downtown Chicago. My husband has a great job opportunity in London that he is thinking of taking. We are just scared of the overall move and how things will end up working out. We also have a 14-month-old son and own an apartment here, so it is scary to give up a comfortable settled life. Yet, there is something very attractive about London. I know I probably sound very naive and romantic, but the city just has this great vibe. NY, Paris other place we have travelled to don't have it. Our only concern is that everyone is complaining about the cost of living there. And, especially we are concerned about real estate and finding a good school for our son. Otherwise, we would be on a plane tomorrow. We also have a lot of friends living there. I don't know... maybe someone could convince me that it is going to be ok). After all, we can always come back to Chicago.


The way I see it you have a few options, I have personally done them and never regretted it. You can house swap, you never know an executive may need to come to Chicago. You can rent your house out, however when I returned from a 3 year stint abroad my tenants who never miss a payment wanted to stay so I had to build another house. You can live a little way out of London where it is very reasonable to live, I personally find London not as expensive as people claim, yet on a good transport link to your husband's new work. As far as having a child I think it would be a better option to take these chances, better education, a great network of friends when they grow up and the positives go on & on.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

*moving to London?*



FreeSpirit1 said:


> The way I see it you have a few options, I have personally done them and never regretted it. You can house swap, you never know an executive may need to come to Chicago. You can rent your house out, however when I returned from a 3 year stint abroad my tenants who never miss a payment wanted to stay so I had to build another house. You can live a little way out of London where it is very reasonable to live, I personally find London not as expensive as people claim, yet on a good transport link to your husband's new work. As far as having a child I think it would be a better option to take these chances, better education, a great network of friends when they grow up and the positives go on & on.


Thanks for sharing! So, with regards to your mentioning of better education, what exactly do you mean? I find education in US to be excellent if you are not a slacker. Both my husband and I came from Russia, have an accent (although very mild and great vocabulary) and we feel that all the doors have always been open to us, no matter what we tried to do. He is a lawyer and I worked in business, although now I am indulging myself in painting and going for a second degree in art. I just want the same for my son. And I am not sure how accepting and affordable UK is with regards to education and career advancement. Also, would great education in UK cost more than in US? 

Also, if you could please elaborate more on the "positives, that go on and on" that would be wonderful. We really need help with making up our minds about this move. 

Thank you,
Anna


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Positives of living in the UK*



chicago said:


> Thanks for sharing! So, with regards to your mentioning of better education, what exactly do you mean? I find education in US to be excellent if you are not a slacker. Both my husband and I came from Russia, have an accent (although very mild and great vocabulary) and we feel that all the doors have always been open to us, no matter what we tried to do. He is a lawyer and I worked in business, although now I am indulging myself in painting and going for a second degree in art. I just want the same for my son. And I am not sure how accepting and affordable UK is with regards to education and career advancement. Also, would great education in UK cost more than in US?
> 
> Also, if you could please elaborate more on the "positives, that go on and on" that would be wonderful. We really need help with making up our minds about this move.
> 
> ...


Hi Anna
Well the Arts for one, so many wonderful showcases of Art in and around England, which brings me to the second positive, hop on a plane for next to nothing and you can take a weekend in Barcelona or wherever takes your fancy, you can escape the 'bad wather weekends' but compared to Chicago the weather should seem kinder, another positive, a great look on your husband's resume, no need to worry about school for your son for now, his life's adventures will stimulate him & if the job turns out to be a long term thing you can enroll him in any number of the Public schools in and around London. I realise that Chicago also has good Public schools but I found the whole school system in the US of A very slow. Chicago has many wonderful buildings but in the UK you have the opportunity to visit many excellent buildings in neighboring cities. Like Chicago the transport from the airport is very good, from my own experience in London (it has a Wholefoods Store) the food is cheaper than in America and on a par with quality, freshness also but it is getting much better. The excitement of organising your new residence and packing everything up that is personal will be a memory carried in to your old age & if you don't like it after 3 years (always set a focus on 3 years) you will have your home to go back to. lane: As for your question about costs between educations I can not answer that but feel you can not put a price on a good education, it is the single best legacy we can give our children, you just have to look at how many 'influencial' people send their children to school in Britian


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

chicago said:


> Thanks for sharing! So, with regards to your mentioning of better education, what exactly do you mean? I find education in US to be excellent if you are not a slacker. Both my husband and I came from Russia, have an accent (although very mild and great vocabulary) and we feel that all the doors have always been open to us, no matter what we tried to do. He is a lawyer and I worked in business, although now I am indulging myself in painting and going for a second degree in art. I just want the same for my son. And I am not sure how accepting and affordable UK is with regards to education and career advancement. Also, would great education in UK cost more than in US?
> 
> Also, if you could please elaborate more on the "positives, that go on and on" that would be wonderful. We really need help with making up our minds about this move.
> 
> ...




Hi Anna,

I do not know how much education costs in the US plus my children left fee paying schools in the UK too many years ago but if you click on this link Independent Private Schools, Independent Private Education - ISC it will give you a guide to schools and their fees. The UK does have good state schools but to be honest it is very difficult for children to get a place. Does your husband not have a schools fees costing built into his offered position? 
Living in London will open up the whole of Europe for you and of course St Peterburg is only a couple of hours flight away.


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## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> I lived in Ardentinny.


My spouse has been there -she's walked a lot of places in Scotland.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

FreeSpirit1 said:


> Hi Anna
> Well the Arts for one, so many wonderful showcases of Art in and around England, which brings me to the second positive, hop on a plane for next to nothing and you can take a weekend in Barcelona or wherever takes your fancy, you can escape the 'bad wather weekends' but compared to Chicago the weather should seem kinder, another positive, a great look on your husband's resume, no need to worry about school for your son for now, his life's adventures will stimulate him & if the job turns out to be a long term thing you can enroll him in any number of the Public schools in and around London. I realise that Chicago also has good Public schools but I found the whole school system in the US of A very slow. Chicago has many wonderful buildings but in the UK you have the opportunity to visit many excellent buildings in neighboring cities. Like Chicago the transport from the airport is very good, from my own experience in London (it has a Wholefoods Store) the food is cheaper than in America and on a par with quality, freshness also but it is getting much better. The excitement of organising your new residence and packing everything up that is personal will be a memory carried in to your old age & if you don't like it after 3 years (always set a focus on 3 years) you will have your home to go back to. lane: As for your question about costs between educations I can not answer that but feel you can not put a price on a good education, it is the single best legacy we can give our children, you just have to look at how many 'influencial' people send their children to school in Britian


Thanks for the feedback. The climate and the food do not concern me so much. They HAVE to be better than in Chicago ) By the way, I loved the food in London. So, Whole Foods costs the same over there? I just love it here. May I ask how much time have you spent in US? Also, is it possible to get a rental flat in Central London with two cats? I hear pets are not so welcome over there. Also, does anyone know of a couple reliable rental agencies to contact to view some flats? Thanks!!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The climate and the food do not concern me so much. They HAVE to be better than in Chicago ) By the way, I loved the food in London. So, Whole Foods costs the same over there? I just love it here. May I ask how much time have you spent in US? Also, is it possible to get a rental flat in Central London with two cats? I hear pets are not so welcome over there. Also, does anyone know of a couple reliable rental agencies to contact to view some flats? Thanks!!


You will probably have some difficulty finding a landlord who will take pets. Be prepared to pay an extra deposit. You might have slightly more success if you are looking for an unfurnished flat because a landlord's main concern is potential damage. Rental agents are called estate agents here and they are VERY neighborhood specific. A Notting Hill estate agent isn't going to be able to help you find flats in Hampstead, just as an example. You need to decide on a neighborhood and then find estate agents who specialize in that neighborhood. This just usually means walking down the High Street or main shopping street in the area.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi, thank you for the link. I was able to pull up a list of schools, but basically, how do you pick a good school in UK? regardless of it being public or private.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

How much does a decent-size 3-4 bedroom flat in central London cost to rent? I checked rightmove and other rental sites, but then read on this site somewhere that they don't have current information and are very unreliable sources.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chicago said:


> How much does a decent-size 3-4 bedroom flat in central London cost to rent? I checked rightmove and other rental sites, but then read on this site somewhere that they don't have current information and are very unreliable sources.


I think those sites give you a good guide as to prices, but depending on demand, prices do change. So what you see on these sites tend to change once people show an interest. Maybe contact the agents who are advertising on there and ask for prices or look at their own websites??

Jo xxx


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> How much does a decent-size 3-4 bedroom flat in central London cost to rent? I checked rightmove and other rental sites, but then read on this site somewhere that they don't have current information and are very unreliable sources.


Websites like rightmove, primelocation and findaproperty are good research tools for getting an idea what kinds of properties are available, pricing and identifying estate agents who cover the area(s) you're interested in. The inventory probably isn't updated by individual estate agents as often as it should be and you might find that many of the properties listed are no longer available. The rental market continues to be tight in London and properties get snapped up pretty quickly and so go off the market pretty quickly. Flats tend to be on the small side and a good sized 3-4 bedrooms in Central London is going to be expensive. A typical 3 bedroom will likely consist of 2 bedrooms that are 10'x10' which are described as doubles and 1 single which will be something like 8'x6'. Properties like this will start at around £750/week. If you're hoping for something with more "American" proportions, expect to pay £1250/week and upwards.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chicago said:


> Hi, thank you for the link. I was able to pull up a list of schools, but basically, how do you pick a good school in UK? regardless of it being public or private.



You dont really pick a state school, they generally are dependant on where you live, but you can look at theiur "OFSTED" reports which all state schools have (that tells you their percentages of passes in exams etc). A private school is a matter of asking, looking round and doing investigating work. But "rule of thumb" is the more expensive they are they better they are!!!????

BTW, "Public schools" are in fact private in the UK. State schools are the free ones lol!!!!

Jo xxx


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Websites like rightmove, primelocation and findaproperty are good research tools for getting an idea what kinds of properties are available, pricing and identifying estate agents who cover the area(s) you're interested in. The inventory probably isn't updated by individual estate agents as often as it should be and you might find that many of the properties listed are no longer available. The rental market continues to be tight in London and properties get snapped up pretty quickly and so go off the market pretty quickly. Flats tend to be on the small side and a good sized 3-4 bedrooms in Central London is going to be expensive. A typical 3 bedroom will likely consist of 2 bedrooms that are 10'x10' which are described as doubles and 1 single which will be something like 8'x6'. Properties like this will start at around £750/week. If you're hoping for something with more "American" proportions, expect to pay £1250/week and upwards.


Thanks for your info!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

gairloch said:


> My spouse has been there -she's walked a lot of places in Scotland.


Yes I used tondo a dair bit of hill walking myself. Ardentinny is lovely and of course we have a beach

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

*State schools*



MaidenScotland said:


> Hi Anna,
> 
> I do not know how much education costs in the US plus my children left fee paying schools in the UK too many years ago but if you click on this link Independent Private Schools, Independent Private Education - ISC it will give you a guide to schools and their fees. The UK does have good state schools but to be honest it is very difficult for children to get a place. Does your husband not have a schools fees costing built into his offered position?
> Living in London will open up the whole of Europe for you and of course St Peterburg is only a couple of hours flight away.


Hi,

So, why is it so difficult for a child to get into a state school? Is it because the child is not British? 

Thanks!


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## javeaestates (Nov 14, 2011)

*Britain Expat Forum for Expats Living in the UK*

I also read that link and which points that you have mentioned very true lines. But you know people wants to come in uk for job searches and no matter what type of britain is it you can see lot of options in London, Oldham, Manchester, in in UK countries even you can also take good apartments for own.

lane:


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

chicago said:


> Hi,
> 
> So, why is it so difficult for a child to get into a state school? Is it because the child is not British?


Because every parent wants to get their children into good state schools and there aren't enough of them. Those children already living in UK and are attending school will be the first to be offered school places, and migrants whose children have to start mid-year or at a non-standard time for entry need to find a school with places and all good state schools are oversubscribed.

So in places like London with big demand for school places, migrants often find the only way to secure a place at a good school is to go private and pay fees. If you are Catholic, Anglican or Jewish with testimonial from your clergy, your children may get priority for entry at faith schools, and most are maintained (state schools).


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chicago said:


> Hi,
> 
> So, why is it so difficult for a child to get into a state school? Is it because the child is not British?
> 
> Thanks!


It depends on location!! UK schools have catchment areas. If you live in the catchment area for a good school, then provided there are places then you'll get in - or you'll be put on the waiting list, in which case you will be given a place in a school nearby - which may not be considered "good" Obviously good schools fill up quickly, at one point they did keep places back for children moving into the area, but I think thats no longer the case. I moved back to the UK a while ago and tried to get my daughter into a school that I considered good - but it was full (we're border line catchment area), so she is now in a school that I cant even talk about cos its so horrendous IMO - I'm trying at the moment to get her into a private school.

the goverment in the UK are trying to make all schools "good" so that the choice isnt an issue - cos very often its the children in a school that determine how good or bad it is - so spread the good kids into not good schools and then it should equal it all out - but, who wants to play that game with their children?????

Jo xxx


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> It depends on location!! UK schools have catchment areas. If you live in the catchment area for a good school, then provided there are places then you'll get in - or you'll be put on the waiting list, in which case you will be given a place in a school nearby - which may not be considered "good" Obviously good schools fill up quickly, at one point they did keep places back for children moving into the area, but I think thats no longer the case. I moved back to the UK a while ago and tried to get my daughter into a school that I considered good - but it was full (we're border line catchment area), so she is now in a school that I cant even talk about cos its so horrendous IMO - I'm trying at the moment to get her into a private school.
> 
> the goverment in the UK are trying to make all schools "good" so that the choice isnt an issue - cos very often its the children in a school that determine how good or bad it is - so spread the good kids into not good schools and then it should equal it all out - but, who wants to play that game with their children?????
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks for the detailed answer! By the way, in London - what are the good catchment areas and how do I get into their schools? We are thinking of making the move in May 2013 perhaps, could be slightly sooner or slightly later. My son will be 3 in 2013. Thanks for your help!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

chicago said:


> Thanks for the detailed answer! By the way, in London - what are the good catchment areas and how do I get into their schools? We are thinking of making the move in May 2013 perhaps, could be slightly sooner or slightly later. My son will be 3 in 2013. Thanks for your help!


Full-time schooling doesn't start till age 4, and that's for optional Reception class, while compulsory education is not till age 5 with Year 1. So depending on his birthday, he may only need a nursery place (kindergarten), which isn't too difficult to secure locally and difference among providers isn't huge - most are ok. Once he is in school full-time, you apply for him to move up to a more senior school at the same time as everyone, and full options will be available to you.


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