# starting a bar and moving to spain



## clutchcargo

Hi guys, is it a poor time to do this? Ive been reading alot of info and it seems to be not a great idea but then again i would like to take the gamble i suppose.
Its a bar/restaurant business what im going to be looking to start up.I know a little about the licences and taxes involved,and plans to do this will not be till next season.
Are any of you forum members owners and have any advice,
good Estate agents
ideal places to move to as in alot of trade?

i know there is alot of competition,and people failing,losing everything and moving back to UK,but i would still like to give it a go.

are any of you selling up,due to struggles? 

thanks guys :juggle:


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## jojo

Before doing anything, you need to come over, look at various areas. Spain is a huge place, I assume you're thinking about the coastal tourist areas???? Have a look at a few, ask the bar/restaurant owners there how they're finding it.

Personally, from what I can see in my area Benalmadena/Fuengirola, there are one or two that are doing ok, but of course it isnt easy as there seems to be far too many bars and the fact that many are closing isnt a bad thing - there are rows and rows of the same sort of thing for miles and miles. I have asked one or two how its going for them and they say they're surviving, but they certainly dont look like they're "living the life" or enjoying it. It seems like a lot of hardwork for no real reward to me.

Thats just my view tho, like I say, do some fact finding missions first and ask yourself why you want to do this - why you really think it would be a good idea!?? Have you thought of buying a bar/restaurant in England first - it would be so much easier, simpler and so much safer and give you some valuable experience

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky

clutchcargo said:


> Hi guys, is it a poor time to do this? Ive been reading alot of info and it seems to be not a great idea but then again i would like to take the gamble i suppose.
> Its a bar/restaurant business what im going to be looking to start up.I know a little about the licences and taxes involved,and plans to do this will not be till next season.
> Are any of you forum members owners and have any advice,
> good Estate agents
> ideal places to move to as in alot of trade?
> 
> i know there is alot of competition,and people failing,losing everything and moving back to UK,but i would still like to give it a go.
> 
> are any of you selling up,due to struggles?
> 
> thanks guys :juggle:


I think you answered your own question really 

We're in the middle of a crisis
Unemployment is very high
Theres a lot of competition

The cost of a coffee or a beer is less than €1.50, yet the rentals and taxes are high and the hours are long

If you're thinking of buying from someone who is selling up due to "struggles", then it's probably not a good level to start from, for if they are struggling then probably you will to

Sorry to sound negative, it's just that I have seen so many people be advised not to, ignore the advice, and then fail at great cost.

If you find the right bar, in the right place, with a good client base then I guess you have a chance ..... Good luck


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## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> If you're thinking of buying from someone who is selling up due to "struggles", then it's probably not a good level to start from, for if they are struggling then probably you will to
> 
> Sorry to sound negative, it's just that I have seen so many people be advised not to, ignore the advice, and then fail at great cost.
> 
> If you find the right bar, in the right place, with a good client base then I guess you have a chance ..... Good luck


The chances are you wont know that you are buying from someone who is struggling, the books will be "massaged", the agent will arrange for "rent-a-crowd" to be there when you visit (yes, they do it all the time) and it will all look "wonderful"!! The righ bar is unlikely to be up for sale as the owners would be able to support staff and sit back - and of course the cost would reflect its success.

That said, I assume that you feel that you would like the challenge of perhaps turning a struggling bar round and making it successful - do you really know how to to that and what makes one bar successful and another not?? Especially in a tourist resort that doesnt ever get much chance to build up a reputation with its transient clientele ????

Jo xxx


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## jimenato

Hi. I took over a bar a year ago and it's going well but I knew exactly what I was getting in to as I had lived in the location for five years and knew the bar well. It's also a pretty special location - many Brits in the area and the only non-Spanish bar for many miles.

In some ways it is a good time to start a business - rents and prices are low and eminently negotiable.

It's all about location, research and stamina. Come to Spain to do the research - it's the only way. Have enough cash to see you through the first year or so - you are unlikely to make any money at first.


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## 90199

The Canary Islands seem to be coming out of recession.

For the last five months it has been reported in the media, that tourism is on the increase, unemployment has fallen and there is growth in the economy.

A big plus is that the larger islands have a year round season, that is because of the climate, more or less sunshine all the time in the southern resorts.

But wherever you go it will not be easy, I'm lucky, retired with a pension,

Hepa


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## MaidenScotland

I was chatting to a bar owner in Gran Alicant and he said that he has never known it to be so slow however his brother who has a bar in Benidorm has never known it to be so busy as lots of Brits on package tours are descending on Benidorm this summer after staying away last year


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## MaidenScotland

p.s

As someone who has had a bar etc I can tell you it is hard work with very little time for a social life,


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## jojo

Another big problem is the massive increase in "All Inclusive" holidays which the tour operators and hotels are using to their advantage to offer overall cheaper holidays which gets people there, but they tend not to go out and spend so much in the towns. Interestingly the "All Inclusive" holiday is very popular in Tenerife this year!!

Jo xxx


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## 90199

jojo said:


> Another big problem is the massive increase in "All Inclusive" holidays which the tour operators and hotels are using to their advantage to offer overall cheaper holidays which gets people there, but they tend not to go out and spend so much in the towns. Interestingly the "All Inclusive" holiday is very popular in Tenerife this year!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Because the all inclusive or full board, with free drinks at mealtimes, are cheaper than B&B.


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## thrax

I was in Nerja town last night and it was heaving, all the bars and restaurants were full with two exceptions. Oner was an Indian, completely empty, the other a Brit bar called the coach and horses, just two very sad non-communitave people sitting in there...


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## clutchcargo

Thankyou everyone for your replies,yes id really like to give things a go and will no doubt take the risk. I do not really want to live a life of what ifs lol, so yes i prepared to take a gamble.im going to get out hopefully in a month and see what things are like in areas..it will not be till next year i dive in,so will do alot of research first guys


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## xabiaxica

clutchcargo said:


> Thankyou everyone for your replies,yes id really like to give things a go and will no doubt take the risk. I do not really want to live a life of what ifs lol, so yes i prepared to take a gamble.im going to get out hopefully in a month and see what things are like in areas..it will not be till next year i dive in,so will do alot of research first guys


you certainly seem to have made up your mind!!!


what area are you thinking of?


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## sensationalfrog

a few things not been mentioned here,when you buy a lease to a bar,a traspaso,generally the agents take 10% of the price and the owner of the property will take 20%,this will apply when you try and sell your bar as well so if you pay 50 grand for the lease,you cant just sell it for 50 grand to get your money back.
you have to pay for transfers,accountant fees,council fees,terrace tax and social security(not sure think its over 250 a month now) and then if you wanna be legal for employees as well

then you will prob rent an apartment so you have that to pay as well as the rent on the bar,ofc then you have the normal utility bills on both properties

on the plus side you get to sit in your bar all day drinking beer waiting for a customer

before i get slagged off,just telling it how it is these days,i had a very busy bar in fuengirola for 7 years,sold 5 years ago,my wife now works down the port in another bar that does ok but only as the tax man hasnt caught up with him yet,most brit bars in fuengirola you cant give away,my advice as always,dont buy a bar,come over for a holiday and have a great time for 2 years,the outcome will be the same but you will have more fun


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## xabiaxica

sensationalfrog said:


> a few things not been mentioned here,when you buy a lease to a bar,a traspaso,generally the agents take 10% of the price and the owner of the property will take 20%,this will apply when you try and sell your bar as well so if you pay 50 grand for the lease,you cant just sell it for 50 grand to get your money back.
> you have to pay for transfers,accountant fees,council fees,terrace tax and social security(not sure think its over 250 a month now) and then if you wanna be legal for employees as well
> 
> then you will prob rent an apartment so you have that to pay as well as the rent on the bar,ofc then you have the normal utility bills on both properties
> 
> on the plus side you get to sit in your bar all day drinking beer waiting for a customer
> 
> before i get slagged off,just telling it how it is these days,i had a very busy bar in fuengirola for 7 years,sold 5 years ago,my wife now works down the port in another bar that does ok but only as the tax man hasnt caught up with him yet,most brit bars in fuengirola you cant give away,my advice as always,dont buy a bar,come over for a holiday and have a great time for 2 years,the outcome will be the same but you will have more fun


I doubt many if any of us who live here would disagree with you

the OP seems determined though


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## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> I doubt many if any of us who live here would disagree with you
> 
> the OP seems determined though


In the words of Simon and Garfunkel:
_
'A man does what he has to do and disregards the rest'_.


People just have to find out for themselves.


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## jojo

mrypg9 said:


> In the words of Simon and Garfunkel:
> _
> 'A man does what he has to do and disregards the rest'_.
> 
> 
> People just have to find out for themselves.



True and thats my point. The OP and others with that plan, MUST come over and do their homework, fact find search and discover everything there is to know, good and bad. Information and knowledge are the power and without them, it will fail. A forum is a good place to start on this quest!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> True and thats my point. The OP and others with that plan, MUST come over and do their homework, fact find search and discover everything there is to know, good and bad. Information and knowledge are the power and without them, it will fail. A forum is a good place to start on this quest!
> 
> Jo xxx


well I know 2 pretty successful bars for sale - so do you probably & most other posters here

and many many more which are for sale cos they are struggling

successful will come at a price, though

struggling will come cheaper


I guess if the OP is hellbent on this, then the world is his lobster


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## Pesky Wesky

clutchcargo said:


> Thankyou everyone for your replies,yes id really like to give things a go and will no doubt take the risk. I do not really want to live a life of what ifs lol, so yes i prepared to take a gamble.im going to get out hopefully in a month and see what things are like in areas..it will not be till next year i dive in,so will do alot of research first guys


Please let us know how you get on - good or bad. Sooo many people ask for advice and disappear. If we don't know the end of the story how are we supposed to pass on good up to the date information...

Oh while I'm here...
Ps There are a few people who come on, ask a question like where can I get tickets for such and such, Recommend a good restaurant in xxx, but then we never get to hear about the concert, the restaurant etc. It would be nice to get some info back sometimes.
Thanks


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## thrax

Pesky Wesky said:


> Please let us know how you get on - good or bad. Sooo many people ask for advice and disappear. If we don't know the end of the story how are we supposed to pass on good up to the date information...
> 
> Oh while I'm here...
> Ps There are a few people who come on, ask a question like where can I get tickets for such and such, Recommend a good restaurant in xxx, but then we never get to hear about the concert, the restaurant etc. It would be nice to get some info back sometimes.
> Thanks


sounds like an idea for a sticky...


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## Tency

clutchcargo said:


> Hi guys, is it a poor time to do this? Ive been reading alot of info and it seems to be not a great idea but then again i would like to take the gamble i suppose.
> Its a bar/restaurant business what im going to be looking to start up.I know a little about the licences and taxes involved,and plans to do this will not be till next season.
> Are any of you forum members owners and have any advice,
> good Estate agents
> ideal places to move to as in alot of trade?
> 
> i know there is alot of competition,and people failing,losing everything and moving back to UK,but i would still like to give it a go.
> 
> are any of you selling up,due to struggles?
> 
> thanks guys :juggle:


I know someone else who also wants to start a bar. He's Spanish, and a fine fellow, with a lot of contacts...You might consider going into business with a partner who can share the long hours and have some good connections. Of course you may already have a partner. Location close to transportation is a must, with decent outdoor views. A lot of tourists will not drive in Spain and make up a good portion of the clientelle. The good pubs in Nerja, seem to be doing pretty well.
I think there is a good demand for novel type pubs with good eats. I grew up in NY, Chicago, and New Orleans during some of my youth and that is what would make or break a place. Be sure to have the right ambiance. If it is too high brow, people shy away for fear of high prices... This is a great time for a place that is nice and cheap.
If you had the right recipes, people would line up. Of course the right crew makes a world of difference. You need to have a good crew! Best of Luck, 10C


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## Tency

clutchcargo said:


> Hi guys, is it a poor time to do this? Ive been reading alot of info and it seems to be not a great idea but then again i would like to take the gamble i suppose.
> Its a bar/restaurant business what im going to be looking to start up.I know a little about the licences and taxes involved,and plans to do this will not be till next season.
> Are any of you forum members owners and have any advice,
> good Estate agents
> ideal places to move to as in alot of trade?
> 
> i know there is alot of competition,and people failing,losing everything and moving back to UK,but i would still like to give it a go.
> 
> are any of you selling up,due to struggles?
> 
> thanks guys :juggle:


Listen Clutch,
If you have a dream, don't let it go. It could be that your particular vision may be the one to have success. /SNIP/
Best thing to do is do your homework to improve the results.
Cheers, 10C


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