# Age of consent



## bakeja (May 26, 2009)

Don't ask me why but a question came up the other day: how old does a child have to be before they can see a doctor in Spain without a parent or guardian present? The answer is sixteen. 

It got me thinking about the subject of minimum ages generally as I realised that I was clueless about Spanish law on this kind of thing. I Googled up a few minimums:

vote 18
sex (straight or gay) 13
work 16
marry 18/16/14 (without parental consent/with/ with judge's permision)
make a contract 18
make will 14
ride moped 14
drive 18
drink 18
smoke 18
run with bulls 16
plastic surgery 16
have an abortion 18/16 (without/with parental consent) This is being changed to 16 if you have told your parents not if they have given permission.


Being 43 I am comfortably into adulthood but this could be useful when my kids are older.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

riding a moped was 15, but I believe its been increased to 16 now?! much to my 15yo sons horror!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bakeja said:


> Being 43 I am comfortably into adulthood but this could be useful when my kids are older.


So you are now worrying about pension age!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Sex at 13? Is that with an extra line added that the partner may only be X years older, or can a thirteen year old in theory go to bed with a 50 year old?

In my native Belgium the age of consent for sex is 16, but there's debate weither it should be reduced to 14 or not. Some people have horror thoughts about it. I would say 15 or 16 sounds about right.

Work: 16  That's damn good. I grew up in a country with studying duties (not necessarily school duty but study duty) until 18. I am very much against it. The unmotivated ones were just disturbing all classes and in the end even the motivated ones got demotivated because of this situation. Let those who want to work work from 16 on and those motivated to study will do so until later age anyway by own decision. I thought study duty in Spain was only until 14, probably I was wrong although I'd encourage even that. Nothing but bad memories about my own school days ; leave the schools for those that are truly motivated and let those who are motivated to work work. 

Drinking age, voting age and driving age seem to be on par with most European countries. I remember when I turned 18 and could vote for the first time, that was damn exciting  My parents hate voting and didn't understand how I could be so enthousiast about waking up early to go to the voting ballot...



One question though: from which resource is the info in the opening post coming? While generally quite correct, never trust wikipedia-esque resources without doublechecking through an official resource such as a governmental website.

I am 28 so not having to worry about any of the above, just curious as some things sound a bit too odd to be true. Marrying at 14 (even when parents agree) and plastic surgery at 16 while a simple drink requires to be 18? It sounds odd that you can get plastic surgery done at an earlier age than having a first beer ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

just cos sex is legal at 13 it doesnt mean its obligatory! I personally think that its up to the individual to decide when they're ready! IME what the law says matters very little when kids decide to do "it" anyway!

As for the rest, it does seem that there needs to be a specific age, rather than different ages for different permissions!!??????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> riding a moped was 15, but I believe its been increased to 16 now?! much to my 15yo sons horror!
> 
> Jo xxx


it's still 14 jo

it changes to 16 in September this year

my 14 yr old dd is determined to do her test before the change


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> it's still 14 jo
> 
> it changes to 16 in September this year
> 
> my 14 yr old dd is determined to do her test before the change


Oh??? are you sure???? My friends daughter desperately wants to get her licence and her mum was told that what you've just said had happened last September????

I've just read your post out loud and......Oooooh, ripples of mild excitement are coming from my son (terror is going thru my mind!!!?)

Jo xxxx


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## bakeja (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for the extra info about mopeds. Having witnessed a couple of incidents of what motorbike accidents can do to you I don't want my boys having anything to do with them but as the oldest is 5 I don't have to worry just yet.

The sex at 13 bit shocked me and there has been discussion within Spain about increasing it. As far as I can see there are no caveats about relative ages so for example a 50 year old man could bed a 13 year old boy. I can't say I was wild about the lowering of the gay age of consent from 18 to 16 in the UK a few years ago so, as you can imagine, I don't agree with that. 

You remember Jonathan King, the pop guy, who was jailed for sex offences against boys in Britain? He is vilified as a paedophile in Britain but what he did would have been legal here, as far as I can see.

I did research the numbers a bit looking at different sources and trying to get references to actual laws on news sites and similar.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

the age of consent in the Vatican State is 12, but the nuns don't make a habit of it.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I've just read your post out loud and......Oooooh, ripples of mild excitement are coming from my son (terror is going thru my mind!!!?)


If you are anti, why did you read it out?
Oh, I know - you bl....


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> the age of consent in the Vatican State is 12, but the nuns don't make a habit of it.



:clap2::amen::clap2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Oh??? are you sure???? My friends daughter desperately wants to get her licence and her mum was told that what you've just said had happened last September????
> 
> I've just read your post out loud and......Oooooh, ripples of mild excitement are coming from my son (terror is going thru my mind!!!?)
> 
> Jo xxxx


yes, dd1 has been on lots of road awareness/pre driving courses with the school run by the police

they have told them that they can still take their tests this summer
















of course it doesn't mean we have to buy them mopeds


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

jojo said:


> just cos sex is legal at 13 it doesnt mean its obligatory! I personally think that its up to the individual to decide when they're ready! IME what the law says matters very little when kids decide to do "it" anyway!
> 
> As for the rest, it does seem that there needs to be a specific age, rather than different ages for different permissions!!??????
> 
> Jo xxx


I know that it's not an obligation or so  but I mean it surprises me that it's even legal at 13 because in some other EU countries conservative politicians even find the idea horrifying to lower the age of consent to 14 or 15. Some try to find compromises such as sex being legal from 14 on as long as no copulation occurs, but I think that's silly ; either you lower the age or you don't, but usually when politicians seek compromises neither proponents nor opponents will be really satisfied with the outcome.



bakeja said:


> Thanks for the extra info about mopeds. Having witnessed a couple of incidents of what motorbike accidents can do to you I don't want my boys having anything to do with them but as the oldest is 5 I don't have to worry just yet.
> 
> The sex at 13 bit shocked me and there has been discussion within Spain about increasing it. As far as I can see there are no caveats about relative ages so for example a 50 year old man could bed a 13 year old boy. I can't say I was wild about the lowering of the gay age of consent from 18 to 16 in the UK a few years ago so, as you can imagine, I don't agree with that.
> 
> ...


I don't see why there should be a different age of consent for gay or straight sex. Sex is sex, orientation shouldn't matter or we risk to end up discriminating based on orientation. 




In the opening post it's stated that you can make your will aka testament from 14 on. How do you do that anyway, regardless of age? Do you just have to bring a piece of paper to the city hall, or do you have to register it somewhere at a special service?
I have thought about this because, as much as I'd like to grow very old, you never know what tomorrow brings and saying how you wish your farewell to earthly life will be organised cannot do harm (eg do you want to be organ donor or not, who should receive your posessions, where do you want to be buried, etc)


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Can't remember thinking "I must do a will" before I was married. Even if at the age of 10 had I wanted to leave my trainset to by best mate I guess my brother would have contested the will arguing half was his and a semi circle of track makes no sense. Of course had I said to my parents "If I die could you leave my pocket money to the donkey sanctuary?" or "Could you spread my ashes on the hallowed Vicarage Road turf?" I expect they would have honoured my wishes.  



gerrit said:


> I have thought about this because, as much as I'd like to grow very old, you never know what tomorrow brings and saying how you wish your farewell to earthly life will be organised cannot do harm (eg do you want to be organ donor or not, who should receive your posessions, where do you want to be buried, etc)


But now with a spanish partner (not legally married) my need for a will was evident. So I visited a solicitor, paid £80, stated my desires, set aside an amount for the executor (most important), and had the doc witnessed, and made it known I had a will and where to find it - all done and dusted.

And the big benefit to my beneficiaries is that they will get whatever quicker and with less hassle.

Now all I have to do is make sure I do not die in Spain cause their inheritance laws are cack 

ps the donor bit needs to be through registering your desire as by the time the will takes affect you will be rather past your sell by date


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

bakeja said:


> The sex at 13 bit shocked me and there has been discussion within Spain about increasing it. As far as I can see there are no caveats about relative ages so for example a 50 year old man could bed a 13 year old boy. I can't say I was wild about the lowering of the gay age of consent from 18 to 16 in the UK a few years ago so, as you can imagine, I don't agree with that.
> 
> You remember Jonathan King, the pop guy, who was jailed for sex offences against boys in Britain? He is vilified as a paedophile in Britain but what he did would have been legal here, as far as I can see.


IMO, I think if the 13yo boy objected it would be seen as rape and illegal (and horrendously disgusting and no I'm not condoning it) But the rest of it - well, as the mother of 5 kids - 4 of them girls of varying ages, maybe I'm unusual, but I know my daughters have only had sex when they were ready and wanted to. One of them was 15, the other two were over 18 and my youngest daughter is 13 and isnt ready, but she'll know when she is and as long as she's aware of the risks and takes precautions, then its up to her - Its not a big deal IMO ......... UNLESS ITS AGAINST HER WISHES and then its rape and that has no age boundaries!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

On the subject of Wills - In Spain, they have to be notarised and the Notary keeps the will but a copy is sent to a central registry to make sure nothing untoward happens (i.e. nobody cheats) or if the original is lost/destroyed, there is still a copy.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> IMO, I think if the 13yo boy objected it would be seen as rape and illegal (and horrendously disgusting and no I'm not condoning it) But the rest of it - well, as the mother of 5 kids - 4 of them girls of varying ages, maybe I'm unusual, but I know my daughters have only had sex when they were ready and wanted to. One of them was 15, the other two were over 18 and my youngest daughter is 13 and isnt ready, but she'll know when she is and as long as she's aware of the risks and takes precautions, then its up to her - Its not a big deal IMO ......... UNLESS ITS AGAINST HER WISHES and then its rape and that has no age boundaries!
> 
> Jo xxx


absolutely agree


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Jo, you know when your daughters first had sex?? I am 28 now and still hardly discuss such topics with my parents whenever they visit me or call me. I may admit when I like a girl but whatever happens next is something I'd find odd to talk about to my parents. Maybe I'm a tiny bit old-fashioned there  I do agree with you: do "it" when you're ready, and that age varies from person to person (and that goes for boys and girls). In a way it's quite odd that the state puts a law on such things when all people feel ready at a different time. 



As for registering a will, what is the system for those of us who move abroad and are likely to someday move to yet another place? Does your will, regardless in what country you lived when you signed it, move with you to your next home country?

For me it's not about money, I don't have a lot to leave behind... It's more like waving farewell in the way I would want it. Being atheist I would not want a religious funeral for example. Also, there's a two or three songs that are a bit unusual for funerals but, as they pulled me through some hard times, I'd still like to have them played at my funeral. My parents and some of my friends know about these desires but then imagine I survive my parents and get out of touch with those friends before dying ... I'd sort of feel more secure if all wishes are on paper but it makes no sense to do so when the document wouldn't be internationally valid. 

PS on organ donations: in Belgium everyone is a donor per definition unless you sign a form at city hall stating you wish to not be a donor. Also, you can sign documents in which cases you wish to have euthanasia authorised (but I won't be signing that one )


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

gerrit said:


> Jo, you know when your daughters first had sex??


We just seemed to be very open about it all!? My daughter, when she was 15 got her first serious boyfriend and I could see that it may be heading that way, so I asked her about it and we had the "chat" about pill, contraceptives, diseases, emotions, reputation etc.. We decided that she should go on the pill, but that she should also use a condon (well he should lol). Theres an infamous (within our family) conversation that I had with her when she asked me how to put a condom on for a man lolol yes, I cringed and wasnt comfy about it, but I duly opened the packet that she had in her handbag (thats another story), got a banana from the fruit bowl and..........!!!!! However, I made it clear that I didnt want boyfriends staying the night in the house, nor did I want her staying the night at her boyfriends house. 

My other daughters didnt actually announce that "the deed had been done" altho one of them used to moan cos she hadnt - altho she didnt want to, she said she felt a freak cos she was the only one in her class at school who hadnt. The other daughter never did tell me as such. She got her first steady boyfriend at 18, nearly 19 and a few months after that told me she was going on the pill

It was no big deal! But we were all quite close. Probably cos I was young when I had them and altho I wasnt one of these mums who was a friend more than a mum, I was still more or less on their wave length!

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Gerrit as I understand it you need your will to be current in your place of domicile. I can't imagine the spanish system honouring a british will in my case unless there is an executor to fight for my wishes. And even then Spanish law may well override my wishes and test my executor's patience.

As I see it it is the executor who will execute your will that is important. For that reason I suggest you leave them something so that they are not out of pocket.

I remember my mother being the executor of my uncle's will. All those who were to benefit were too old and unsure. The selling of his house involved weeks of hassle and a lot of travelling. She dropped any chance of reclaiming those expenses because no matter how well you think you know people/family a pot of unearned gold can change them. Being an executor can be a thankless task.

If there is a will but no one to handle it then your estate (property, money) might get handled as you wish but the rest could go to the wall.

Of course dying in debt solves most problems and probably removes the need for music


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gerrit said:


> For me it's not about money, I don't have a lot to leave behind... It's more like waving farewell in the way I would want it. Being atheist I would not want a religious funeral for example. Also, there's a two or three songs that are a bit unusual for funerals but, as they pulled me through some hard times, I'd still like to have them played at my funeral. My parents and some of my friends know about these desires but then imagine I survive my parents and get out of touch with those friends before dying ... I'd sort of feel more secure if all wishes are on paper but it makes no sense to do so when the document wouldn't be internationally valid.
> 
> )


In Spain you're in the ground or burnt to a crisp so quickly that I doubt that anyone looks at your will to see what your wishes were about the funeral...


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## Guest (May 21, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> In Spain you're in the ground or burnt to a crisp so quickly that I doubt that anyone looks at your will to see what your wishes were about the funeral...


That was shocking to me - and the funeral felt like an impersonal "who was this guy again? I think I'll read this passage. The Lord is my...." ceremony. Even though I'm not planning to die for at least 55 years, my OH and I have already had the "Please do this" discussion.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> In Spain you're in the ground or burnt to a crisp so quickly that I doubt that anyone looks at your will to see what your wishes were about the funeral...



That'll do for me!! Stick me in a bin liner and take up to the basura! I'm sure those who wish to remember me will with or without a costly ceremony!

Jo xxxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Irrespective of whether you have a will made out under the law of your "home"country for that part of your estate there, you should have a will in the country of domicile (in our case Spain) otherwise all sorts of complications can arise. Any such will should specify that it relates only to that part of your estate domiciled in that country in which the will has been set up. Therefore, as I understand it, you should have separate wills for each country in which you have assets, to dispose of those assets existing in that country alone.

*Please, please, please*, if there is likely to be more than one beneficiary make sure you have a clearly written will stipulating the precise disposal of your assets. So many Spaniards don't bother and then it may turn out that there are twenty seven or more cousins who may inherit under Spanish intestacy law and by the time you can get them all to agree, or sufficient of them have died off to make the intestacy easier to handle, any property could well have fallen down as is the case of the house next to us (fortunately, it was detached or by now it mostly would have been!)


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Sorry folks, my fault we seem to have gone off topic.
:focus:
On the age of consent question (yes, THAT age of consent) - I was 24 and engaged! but that was in a different age.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry folks, my fault we seem to have gone off topic.
> :focus:
> On the age of consent question (yes, THAT age of consent) - I was 24 and engaged! but that was in a different age.


You old romantic you!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Tallulah said:


> You old romantic you!


Is there anything wrong with that? I was firmly of the belief, that you shouldn't, if you weren't prepared to get married (in case there was an outcome)


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Is there anything wrong with that? I was firmly of the belief, that you shouldn't, if you weren't prepared to get married (in case there was an outcome)


Baldi don't be so sensitive. I thought that was utterly charming.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I always told myself never to get married for the same reason as the funeral thing: an atheist is lying to himself when engaging in a religious ceremony even if it's for the sake of tradition. I didn't do my communion, I don't want to be buried with a religious ceremony, and I don't want to marry in any religious building!

However, I somehow leave the door open for legal marriage without religious context. In a way I think just loving each other is all you need, with or without that marriage certificate. However, relocating from country to country, the odds are high I'll end up with a girlfriend of different origin than myself. Marriage in that case can come in handy because you can adopt each others citizenships and thus be sure no country can ever tear you apart anymore. Also, if I would know the girl wants the marriage for symbolic reason, if I love her why would I not do it? My one condition would be that the ceremony is non-religious.

And to make the link with my will: I don't have that much stuff to leave behind really and as I wish to remain childless there would be no direct heirs. It's mainly a concern for me to be buried without the religious thing ; in theory any friend or family can arrange that but what if I'd die in a place where I have no friends or when my family has already passed before me? A paper requesting to just be buried without any priest nearby would come in handy.

PS: I respect all religions, I just dislike faking. Lot of people don't believe but still do the communion and the religious marriage for the sake of tradition. I wish to not do that because it'd be lying to myself. That's basically what I care for - whatever other stuff happens with my dead body doesn't bother me, it's not like I'll be alive to realise it ...


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## bakeja (May 26, 2009)

gerrit said:


> I don't see why there should be a different age of consent for gay or straight sex. Sex is sex, orientation shouldn't matter or we risk to end up discriminating based on orientation.


Most of the forumers seem pretty relaxed about the 13 year old limit. I think the reason for the discussion about increasing it in Spain, is not about prudishness over what kids get up to in the privacy of their own bikesheds but more a concern about adults preying on kids. I take Jo's point that there are rape laws which cover non-consensual sex and that everything else is none of the law's business. However there is a blurry line between consent and non-consent in some situations where there is a big age variation. 

Men and women will try all kinds of tactics to get the object of their desires and not all of them involve roses and chocolates. Young teenagers are vulnerable and to put them on the block in the adult sexual marketplace at too early and age risks exploitation and worse.

If you actually saw a middleaged man hanging around a youthclub or bowling alley buying drinks and presents for 13 year old girls or boys and inviting them back to his house, would you think romantic old fool or predatory paedophile?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

bakeja said:


> Most of the forumers seem pretty relaxed about the 13 year old limit. I think the reason for the discussion about increasing it in Spain, is not about prudishness over what kids get up to in the privacy of their own bikesheds but more a concern about adults preying on kids. I take Jo's point that there are rape laws which cover non-consensual sex and that everything else is none of the law's business. However there is a blurry line between consent and non-consent in some situations where there is a big age variation.
> 
> Men and women will try all kinds of tactics to get the object of their desires and not all of them involve roses and chocolates. Young teenagers are vulnerable and to put them on the block in the adult sexual marketplace at too early and age risks exploitation and worse.
> 
> If you actually saw a middleaged man hanging around a youthclub or bowling alley buying drinks and presents for 13 year old girls or boys and inviting them back to his house, would you think romantic old fool or predatory paedophile?



I take your point totally, especially about "the blurry line". Sadly its age as such isnt a good indicator. There are some 13yos who just dont look 13, they look 16+ and know damn well how and what they're doing.... blah, blah.... and then there are 16yo who look like kids?!!!? So its not always about paedophilia as such. Parental care and control is pivotal when kids are over 13 regardless of the age of consent! Hense I'm being very strict with my 13yo right now, she's quite a worry to me cos mentally she isnt old enough for any of it, but physically and "cosmetically" she could be seen as older and................!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

The blurry line is the reason why there should be no legal age put on such an issue. Some 14 year olds are more responsible than some 26 years old. Some people are very mature for their age while others still don't take their responsibilities in their thirties. It's such a personal thing ... Rather than the state telling when you can have sex or not, why not just draw a more clearly to identify line: any sex with mutual concent is OK, any sex without mutual concent is a criminal fact (regardless of age). Wouldn't that be more simple? I realise there are still blurry situations possible, but I would say the amount of difficult-to-judge cases would be lower than the blurry situations occuring when putting an age on sex.


In a way things like drinking are a similar thing. I remember when I lived in a gloomy suburb of Dublin with a high alcoholism problem. Sometimes I came back from late shift at work to see kids of less than 10 years old hanging around on the streets late night alone, holding a bottle of wodka. The police didn't dare to do anything (those kids were always in group and quite aggressive) and the parents were probably drinking themselves in the pub. You can legally say one cannot buy alcohol below 16 or 18, but there's so many ways to bypass that: ask an older friend or relative to buy the booze for you, secretly take a single bottle out of daddy's wine cellar, and then there's even the shopkeepers who won't even check identity cards and just be happy to sell strong liquor to underaged people. These are very hard to tackle issues because the law is so difficult to enforce.

(PS: never drunk more than the occasional glass at a wedding or so, and have abstained totally from alcohol for over 3 years now ... As I said in a different part of the forum before, I don't understand the fascination people seem to have with alcohol)


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

gerrit said:


> (PS: never drunk more than the occasional glass at a wedding or so, and have abstained totally from alcohol for over 3 years now ... As I said in a different part of the forum before, I don't understand the fascination people seem to have with alcohol)


Why did you add this point?:confused2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I take gerrit's point re the obsession with getting drunk - there seems to be a mentality among some people that unless they finish the evening unconscious on the ground in a puddle of their own vomit they haven't had a good time.

Personally i have never been bothered whether I have an alcoholic drink or not and nowadays generally drink orange juice (no ice!).


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Exactly. I was quite shocked when I first moved to Ireland and saw kids maximum 10 years old hanging around the streets at night drinking liquors and wodka. Clearly they were fascinated enough by alcohol that they went to great lengths to bypass the legal age of drinking laws. 

Also, if I talk to my friends in the Middle East... one of the first things tourists tend to ask them is where they can buy alcohol or what places aren't patrolled by cops so that they can drink. 

What is the obsession of people with alcohol in the first place? That was the point I was trying to make. I mean, some people seem to not be able to do without it, a night out isn't complete for them until they end up drunk. I know people of almost 30 years old who brag to their friends about how much beer they had ; am I just being oldfashioned or do others share my thought that this is quite pathetic for adults?

Instead of an age of consent for drinking, what about a maximum number of liquors per person per evening? For example upon entering a club or pub you get a card which is stamped with every alcoholic beverage you buy. Once your card has 4 stamps, the bartender may refuse to serve you another alcoholic drink. I know, one can just move on to the next bar and such, but then every law can be bypassed. An age of consent regarding drinking has a bizarre sound to me because there's so many adults who still don't know when to stop and end up falling asleep in their own vomit (sounds exagerated?? Just walk through Dublin city center at night and behold...)


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

gerrit said:


> The blurry line is the reason why there should be no legal age put on such an issue. Some 14 year olds are more responsible than some 26 years old. Some people are very mature for their age while others still don't take their responsibilities in their thirties. It's such a personal thing ... Rather than the state telling when you can have sex or not, why not just draw a more clearly to identify line: any sex with mutual concent is OK, any sex without mutual concent is a criminal fact (regardless of age). Wouldn't that be more simple? I realise there are still blurry situations possible, but I would say the amount of difficult-to-judge cases would be lower than the blurry situations occuring when putting an age on sex.
> I think there is a good reason to have an age of consent, and it s nothing to do with the state trying to control people's private lives. I think it can provide a guideline on what is considered acceptable in society in order to protect vulnerable young people. Sexual abuse/exploitation occurs in lots of different circumstances, including within the family, but at least if a young girl is being pressurised by her peers or her boyfriend into doing something she doesnt want to, at least she can say she cant as its not legal.
> 
> To have no age of consent would mean effectively that a 10 year old could consent to sex with her 13 year old boyfriend. That could happen anyway, of course, but without guidelines of what is broadly acceptable and what is not, young people are more at risk, not less. Young girls are increasingly under pressure to act out sexually, as they are bombarded with images from the media which reflect that. I therefore believe it is desirable to set an age of consent.
> ...


A lot of people use alcohol to escape from something, be it their reality, problems they dont or cant face, or just because they think they feel better about themselves when they drink. Underage drinking is common, and it was when I was a teenager too, but to have no age of consent just encourages youth to start younger and is just irresponsible. The culture of drinking certainly is not something that can be reversed by legislation but that doesnt mean its a good idea to leave people to their own devices when they are still children, making them even more vulnerable. We cant stop all murders or rapes either but we still need a law to at least attempt to protect people.


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

Thanks for this, very useful.

Sex legally at 13 yrs old? ppphhhhh..I know our kids are 'growing up' faster these days and I consider myself an open-minded mom, but I feel 16 yrs is more than young enough.

Still, its up to us as parents to raise our kids with integrity, responsibility and confidence so that they can make decisions based on their own choice, and not based on peer pressure.

(though this is easier said than done at times  )





bakeja said:


> Don't ask me why but a question came up the other day: how old does a child have to be before they can see a doctor in Spain without a parent or guardian present? The answer is sixteen.
> 
> It got me thinking about the subject of minimum ages generally as I realised that I was clueless about Spanish law on this kind of thing. I Googled up a few minimums:
> 
> ...


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Jewel003 said:


> Still, its up to us as parents to raise our kids with integrity, responsibility and confidence so that they can make decisions based on their own choice, and not based on peer pressure.
> 
> (though this is easier said than done at times  )


Just "at times"??


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

I am being very positive


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Jewel003 said:


> I am being very positive


Yes I know it's not an easy job and I am just starting out!


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

If you take raising kids with a pinch of salt, and remember to ENJOY them instead of seeing them as a burden (which I think we all tend to do at times when we are tired, overworked, preoccupied, busy, etc,etc) then you are going to have the time of your life 

There is a saying here about kids : 

when they are very young they are so sweet, you wanna eat them, when they get older, you regret that you didn't!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Jewel003 said:


> If you take raising kids with a pinch of salt, and remember to ENJOY them instead of seeing them as a burden (which I think we all tend to do at times when we are tired, overworked, preoccupied, busy, etc,etc) then you are going to have the time of your life
> 
> There is a saying here about kids :
> 
> when they are very young they are so sweet, you wanna eat them, when they get older, you regret that you didn't!


Reading this thread, I'm wondering why anybody bothers - having kids I mean. I haven't got any as far as I'm aware... Isn't it easier and no-risk just to not have any?:noidea:


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Jewel003 said:


> If you take raising kids with a pinch of salt, and remember to ENJOY them instead of seeing them as a burden (which I think we all tend to do at times when we are tired, overworked, preoccupied, busy, etc,etc) then you are going to have the time of your life
> 
> There is a saying here about kids :
> 
> when they are very young they are so sweet, you wanna eat them, when they get older, you regret that you didn't!


 :lol::lol::lol:


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

jimenato said:


> Reading this thread, I'm wondering why anybody bothers - having kids I mean. I haven't got any as far as I'm aware... Isn't it easier and no-risk just to not have any?:noidea:


Well, yeah, but then some things in life, even when they're not easy, are rewarding enough to still want it. Even when an easier option exists. The easy way is not always the most rewarding. 

That said, I don't want any children myself neither, but not because I see it as "easier" than having kids. I just totally lack the interest and desire in raising a child, if I would have had that interest I doubt "it's difficult" would have stopped me. It's just a biological thing I think, some really feel that void of not having a family and see children as very rewarding ; others simply don't have the interest in kids. I don't think "easy" is the criteria by which people decide weither to have children or not.

PS: as all of us are expats I imagine... Is moving out of your trusted environment where you have family and friends and where everything is familiar, an easy thing to do? I know for sure it was very hard at first. But it was rewarding as well and I'm glad I took the decision to emigrate. I still think staying at home is easier, but when you really want something then you don't mind to choose the harder option because you really are determined. I figure with anything you really want (in some people's case it can be raising a child) you will do it and not take the easy way out ; I don't want children myself but I can nonetheless see why those who want them don't let the difficult moments stop them.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> Reading this thread, I'm wondering why anybody bothers - having kids I mean. I haven't got any as far as I'm aware... Isn't it easier and no-risk just to not have any?:noidea:



Cos its the most basic instinct that all animals have and need! I personally have taken great pleasure from having kids and I'd have more if I could. They are the biggest reward ever! The biggest challenge is to get it right cos they are the future!!! Being a mother is the most important job in the world!

Jo xxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> They are the biggest reward ever! The biggest challenge is to get it right cos they are the future!!! Being a mother is the most important job in the world!
> 
> Jo xxx


I'll second that. Though I may be slightly biased!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Being a Mother a more important job than being a Father then?:bolt:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> Being a Mother a more important job than being a Father then?:bolt:


Well in an old fashioned context - yes!!!!! But if a father is doing the "mothering" then its the same!! LOL

Jo xxx


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## Jewel003 (May 24, 2010)

I second that Jo!

Still, I do understand not every person feels that way, again, its a matter of preference and choice. To me wanting kids was something that came naturally albeit a little sooner than I expected 

But I wouldn't have it any other way, even with it being challenging at times, I mean, isn't anything/anyone worth having/being in your life waaaaayyyy worth more than the hassles ???!!!!







jojo said:


> Cos its the most basic instinct that all animals have and need! I personally have taken great pleasure from having kids and I'd have more if I could. They are the biggest reward ever! The biggest challenge is to get it right cos they are the future!!! Being a mother is the most important job in the world!
> 
> Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jewel003 said:


> I second that Jo!
> 
> Still, I do understand not every person feels that way, again, its a matter of preference and choice. To me wanting kids was something that came naturally albeit a little sooner than I expected
> 
> But I wouldn't have it any other way, even with it being challenging at times, I mean, isn't anything/anyone worth having/being in your life waaaaayyyy worth more than the hassles ???!!!!


Not everyone wants to have kids and not everyone will, but without those who choose to, the human race would end! But, yes, mine test me sometimes, in fact my youngest daughter 13yo is horrendously difficult at the moment, but I wouldnt be without her - well maybe I could live without her "attitude", altho even thats a challenge and shows that she wont be walked on or pushed around when she's an adult. 

Jo xx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Not everyone wants to have kids and not everyone will, but without those who choose to, the human race would end!
> Jo xx


Most people don't choose to have children - it just happens, but some choose not to. It is debatable which course of action is more likely to bring about the end of the human race.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Most people don't choose to have children - it just happens, but some choose not to. It is debatable which course of action is more likely to bring about the end of the human race.


That's a bit pessimistic, Jimenato!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> That's a bit pessimistic, Jimenato!


Sorry - not at my best last night


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Most people don't choose to have children - it just happens, but some choose not to. It is debatable which course of action is more likely to bring about the end of the human race.


Dinosaurs lasted 160 million years but Mother Nature had her final say.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Jewel003 said:


> isn't anything/anyone worth having/being in your life waaaaayyyy worth more than the hassles ???!!!!


That's why I'm looking for a girlfriend even though I know it will give me headaches sometimes once I've found her 


No kids for me though, but indeed, it's a personal choice. Those who want it will take the hassle with it with a smile. It's all about motivation.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

JBODEN said:


> the age of consent in the Vatican State is 12, but the nuns don't make a habit of it.


But according to the nuns, the bishops are trying to get into the habit..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> But according to the nuns, the bishops are trying to get into the habit..


:nono::nono:


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

So you can have sex at 13, but not drunken sex until 18?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> So you can have sex at 13, but not drunken sex until 18?


It is just so that you can't claim that you were taken advantage of while under the influence of alcohol.


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## clairem (Mar 3, 2011)

I have put my 14 year old daughter on the contreceptive pill 'Yasmin' as she was suffering every month with pain and long periods also she has a 17 year old boyfriend !!!.
My question is can she get her pill on perscription as it is 16 euros a month ( i have been buying it over the counter) and does she see her doctor or the family planning section at the doctors?
Thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

clairem said:


> I have put my 14 year old daughter on the contreceptive pill 'Yasmin' as she was suffering every month with pain and long periods also she has a 17 year old boyfriend !!!.
> My question is can she get her pill on perscription as it is 16 euros a month ( i have been buying it over the counter) and does she see her doctor or the family planning section at the doctors?
> Thanks


Over the counter??!! 
If she is on the social security she has to go to her doctor who will send her to a gynacologist. ASAP, I would say...


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## clairem (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi, I did speak to a chemist who recommended this pill for 1st time users.
So I make an appointment with her usual doctor?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

clairem said:


> I have put my 14 year old daughter on the contreceptive pill 'Yasmin' as she was suffering every month with pain and long periods also she has a 17 year old boyfriend !!!.
> My question is can she get her pill on perscription as it is 16 euros a month ( i have been buying it over the counter) and does she see her doctor or the family planning section at the doctors?
> Thanks


To get a prescription she would need to see the doctor who would write it 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

clairem said:


> Hi, I did speak to a chemist who recommended this pill for 1st time users.
> So I make an appointment with her usual doctor?


Yes


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