# More Anti-Fraud Measures on the Way



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

New measures to combat fraud have been approved today, including lowering the limit on cash transactions from the present €2,500 to €1,000.


El Gobierno español limitará el pago en efectivo a 1.000 euros | Economía | EL PAÃ�S


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> New measures to combat fraud have been approved today, including lowering the limit on cash transactions from the present €2,500 to €1,000.
> 
> 
> El Gobierno español limitará el pago en efectivo a 1.000 euros | Economía | EL PAÃ�S


We already have something like this in France but in some cases it doesn't apply :confused2: 

https://www.french-property.com/news/money_france/cash_payments_limits


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This is part of a range of measures in the Budget to try and bring down the public deficit from 4.6% to 3.1% of GDP next year. As well as clamping down on tax fraud they will be raising corporation tax, increasing the duty on tobacco and alcohol, and introducing a "sugar tax" on soft drinks.

Spanish politics: Spain to hike taxes on tobacco, alcohol and soft drinks to raise €8 billion | In English | EL PAÍS


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> New measures to combat fraud have been approved today, including lowering the limit on cash transactions from the present €2,500 to €1,000.
> 
> 
> El Gobierno español limitará el pago en efectivo a 1.000 euros | Economía | EL PAÃ�S


Cashless society on its way?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Presumably this will make it harder to withdraw or deposit large cash sums into banks without some sort of checking procedure? No more under-the-table wads of notes when buying property?


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## Swerve (Jun 29, 2011)

I don't think the black money ever seen a bank account. Mostly just disappears into thin air.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Chopera said:


> Cashless society on its way?


It already is in some parts of Spain and the UK - they just don't have any cash _punto!_


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Had a letterfrom Newcastle building society yesterday, dated october, asking where i was tax resident for an account i hadnt used for 20 years. Reply date was 30th November. I rang them and said i had forgotten about the acct and could i close it. (£5.63p) . What about this form, i asked? Bin it , doesnt apply, closed account.

If one building society is doing it you can bet others are too. It looked like co op between European countries on tax.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

olivefarmer said:


> Had a letterfrom Newcastle building society yesterday, dated october, asking where i was tax resident for an account i hadnt used for 20 years. Reply date was 30th November. I rang them and said i had forgotten about the acct and could i close it. (£5.63p) . What about this form, i asked? Bin it , doesnt apply, closed account.
> 
> If one building society is doing it you can bet others are too. It looked like co op between European countries on tax.


I think this relates to an international agreement that is coming into effect in January, allowing governments from the countries signed up to it (which seems to be most countries, not just EU) to inspect bank accounts held in other countries signed up to it. So for example the Spanish government will be able to view UK current accounts without having to ask permission. In theory they'll be able to log on and see which accounts have more than €50k for example, and check whether the account holder has declared it on the 720.


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## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

Ah, now I see. Tried to pay cash for a 3k kitchen at an Ikea store last year. Was told that the cash limit was 2.5k, so paid the balance with my foreign Credit card. At the time I thought it was an Ikea policy.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> This is part of a range of measures in the Budget to try and bring down the public deficit from 4.6% to 3.1% of GDP next year. As well as clamping down on tax fraud they will be raising corporation tax, increasing the duty on tobacco and alcohol, and introducing a "sugar tax" on soft drinks.
> 
> Spanish politics: Spain to hike taxes on tobacco, alcohol and soft drinks to raise €8 billion | In English | EL PAÍS


Last time they raised tax on cigarettes & tobacco they lost over a billion euros the following year in tax income from it. The level has never recovered to previous yet so why they think that putting it up again is going to work ?


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Last time they raised tax on cigarettes & tobacco they lost over a billion euros the following year in tax income from it. The level has never recovered to previous yet so why they think that putting it up again is going to work ?


Because they're Spanish and if you haven't got enough money then you put the prices up. The idea of putting prices down to create trade and more profit doesn't gel in the mind of the Spanish 

Near me there is a property that is taken off the market in November and put back on im March; the prices rises with inflation! 

Davexf


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

At least the new taxes aren't going to affect beer or wine, so we won't be hit by them as we don't smoke and very rarely drink spirits. We don't buy fizzy drinks either.

The budget has now been approved and it appears there won't be any personal tax rises apart from the aforementioned ones. 


Rajoy sube los impuestos para recaudar 4.800 millones en 2017 | Economía | EL PAÃ�S


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Last time they raised tax on cigarettes & tobacco they lost over a billion euros the following year in tax income from it. The level has never recovered to previous yet so why they think that putting it up again is going to work ?


Surely the main aim of increasing tobacco tax is to persuade people not to smoke? Smoking rates in Spain are among the highest in Europe (29%). In the long run it will save money on health care.

Unfortunately until Gibraltar starts increasing tobacco prices as well, people will keep smuggling it over the border. This costs Spain billions of euros in lost tax.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Surely the main aim of increasing tobacco tax is to persuade people not to smoke? Smoking rates in Spain are among the highest in Europe (29%). In the long run it will save money on health care.
> 
> *Unfortunately until Gibraltar starts increasing tobacco prices as well, people will keep smuggling it over the border. This costs Spain billions of euros in lost tax*.


As is the case with those smuggling tobacco from Spain and Andorra to France. 32% of those aged between 15 to 85 smoke here and the death rate from smoking is 72,000 p.a. However, customs and police on this side of the border are now doing much more to stop the smuggling, with a degree of success.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> As is the case with those smuggling tobacco from Spain and Andorra to France. 32% of those aged between 15 to 85 smoke here and the death rate from smoking is 72,000 p.a. However, customs and police on this side of the border are now doing much more to stop the smuggling, with a degree of success.


Yes, and counterfeit Chinese cigarettes enter Spain via the ports in container ships as well as via Gibraltar. Haven't heard of much success in stopping them though, I guess the GC are more concerned with illegal drugs.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> 32% of those aged between 15 to 85 smoke here


Did you mean 85? What happens after that?  I'm thinking of taking it up again if I ever reach that age!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

davexf said:


> Because they're Spanish and if you haven't got enough money then you put the prices up. The idea of putting prices down to create trade and more profit doesn't gel in the mind of the Spanish
> 
> Near me there is a property that is taken off the market in November and put back on im March; the prices rises with inflation!
> 
> Davexf




An empty property that I didn't buy 16 years ago for 92k pounds has never been sold, has been divvied up into 4 separate properties & last time I looked still had sold for the new aggregate price of 540k euros


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Surely the main aim of increasing tobacco tax is to persuade people not to smoke? Smoking rates in Spain are among the highest in Europe (29%). In the long run it will save money on health care.
> 
> Unfortunately until Gibraltar starts increasing tobacco prices as well, people will keep smuggling it over the border. This costs Spain billions of euros in lost tax.


Since they started increasing duty & prices astronomically smoking in Spain has Increased 7,4% from 27% of population to 29% , Don't mention that do they ?
So it's not helping the health service atthe moment.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Since they started increasing duty & prices astronomically smoking in Spain has Increased 7,4% from 27% of population to 29% , Don't mention that do they ?
> So it's not helping the health service atthe moment.


Not sure where you got that figure but the source I saw said smoking had decreased by 4% since 2014. There is a clear link between increased prices and reduced smoking. In the UK it's down to 19% of the population.

Smoking rates in England fall to lowest on record - BBC News


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The most recent report I can find says that the number of smokers in Spain has fallen from 26.2% in 2009 to 23% in 2014.

El número de fumadores diarios en España cae del 26,2% al 23% en 2014


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

There are conflicting figures out there because this report says 29% (although it also says the number of smokers fell by 4% between 2012 and 2014 so a combination of increased prices and the smoking ban in public places does seem to be having an effect).


El tabaco en España: cae su consumo, pero casi un tercio del país sigue siendo fumador - 20minutos.es


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## Gran Erry-Bredd (Nov 1, 2016)

Won't those who do smoke be puffing away on more ciggies because they're stressed about the rise in prices.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Not sure where you got that figure but the source I saw said smoking had decreased by 4% since 2014. There is a clear link between increased prices and reduced smoking. In the UK it's down to 19% of the population.
> 
> Smoking rates in England fall to lowest on record - BBC News


You posted the 29% in post no; 14 ? 
The 27% smoking is what the rate was around 2008/9


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> You posted the 29% in post no; 14 ?
> The 27% smoking is what the rate was around 2008/9


OK, either it's increasing or it's not falling fast enough. Time for a price hike and a big publicity campaign!


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> OK, either it's increasing or it's not falling fast enough. Time for a price hike and a big publicity campaign!


2008/9 was the GFC - it's quite usual when times get tough that people smoke more, irrespective of the cost, and that could be the reason for the increase since (especially given that Spain has had a double whammy with the additional financial crisis resulting from the bursting of the property bubble).


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## mono (Jan 22, 2016)

My OH keeps thinking he is going to get arrested for not smoking when in Spain


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