# Anyone know about this ? new speed limit reduced from 120km/h to 110km/h



## natalieml

They´ve decided instead of lowering tax on the rising fuel costs to reduce the maximum speed limit on the motorways from 120KM/HR to 110KM/HR as this will reduce fuel consumption WTF


El Gobierno rebaja a 110 km/hora la velocidad en las autopistas. SUR.es

Effective 7th March


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## andmac

natalieml said:


> They´ve decided instead of lowering tax on the rising fuel costs to reduce the maximum speed limit on the motorways from 120KM/HR to 110KM/HR as this will reduce fuel consumption WTF
> 
> 
> El Gobierno rebaja a 110 km/hora la velocidad en las autopistas. SUR.es
> 
> Effective 7th March


Caught a glimpse of this on the news just now. They are also reducing rail fares by 5%. It is some sort of energy saving policy.


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## Alcalaina

*Speed limit reduced from 120 to 110 kph*

The Spanish government has just announced that the speed limit on autopistas and other dual carriageways is being reduced from 120 to 110 kph from 7 March, to save fuel during the crisis in North Africa and the Middle East. The savings should be around 15% for petrol, 11% for diesel.

This last happened during the oil crisis in 1973. 

A sensible precaution given that oil supplies are in imminent danger of meltdown? Or a crazy gesture by a government that's lost the plot?

El Gobierno reduce la velocidad máxima en autovías y autopistas a 110 kilómetros por hora · ELPAÍS.com


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## Pesky Wesky

I think it's a great measure. So much fuel is wasted every day by speeding and aggressive driving.
Unfortunately the odds are it will not be enforced and no one will take any notice of it


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## jojo

We've just mentioned this on this post http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/71687-anyone-know-about.html

Hhhmmmm, I dont go that fast anyway, I just wont go out so much!

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

I've just started a thread on this (didn't realise Natalie's thread was on the same subject). Can they be merged?


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## natalieml

We don't go that fast either - generally a school run or to Mercadona is as far as we go these days, although we are venturing out to Malaga tomorrow to buy a swing for my bedroom terrace. What awild life I lead - NOT!


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think it's a great measure. So much fuel is wasted every day by speeding and aggressive driving.
> Unfortunately the odds are it will not be enforced and no one will take any notice of it



Altho not really applicable to Spain, my OH always says that he uses more fuel being stuck in traffic jams than he does by fast driving and sitting around or crawling slowly through rush hour produces more emissions

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Altho not really applicable to Spain, my OH always says that he uses more fuel being stuck in traffic jams than he does by fast driving and sitting around or crawling slowly through rush hour produces more emissions
> 
> Jo xxx


On the motorway??

With the possible exception of rush hour they are pretty much free flowing here.


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> On the motorway??
> 
> With the possible exception of rush hour they are pretty much free flowing here.



I think he's talking more about the UK, in particular the M25 and the M27 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I think he's talking more about the UK, in particular the M25 and the M27
> 
> Jo xxx


Ahh, now I've got you.I didn't understand your previous post.


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## Alcalaina

The price in the UK is apparently up to £6 a gallon now!

But there is a bit of a con going on. There is no shortage of petrol; oil companies have it stockpiled all over the world. Libya (the only oil-producing country affected by the unrest so far) only produces 2% of the world's oil, and Saudi Arabia is likely to make up the shortfall.

It is the commodity speculators who are coining it, as usual, and the consumers (us) who pay the cost with 10% price increases at the pumps.

I'm going to ask my neighbour if I can borrow his donkey.

Georges Ugeux: Don't Worry about the Oil Prices: it is pure trading speculation, oil companies racketeering and ignorance


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> The price in the UK is apparently up to £6 a gallon now!
> 
> But there is a bit of a con going on. There is no shortage of petrol; oil companies have it stockpiled all over the world. Libya (the only oil-producing country affected by the unrest so far) only produces 2% of the world's oil, and Saudi Arabia is likely to make up the shortfall.
> 
> It is the commodity speculators who are coining it, as usual, and the consumers (us) who pay the cost with 10% price increases at the pumps.
> 
> I'm going to ask my neighbour if I can borrow his donkey.


My husband says that (well, not the donkey bit lol). He also says that apparently Libyan oil is the best oil and thats the one "they" all want??????

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> My husband says that (well, not the donkey bit lol). He also says that apparently Libyan oil is the best oil and thats the one "they" all want??????
> 
> Jo xxx


Which is why Western governments have been cosying up to that awful Mr Gaddafi for so long ...


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## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> I've just started a thread on this (didn't realise Natalie's thread was on the same subject). Can they be merged?


done!!!


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## gus-lopez

Alcalaina said:


> The price in the UK is apparently up to £6 a gallon now!
> 
> But there is a bit of a con going on. There is no shortage of petrol; oil companies have it stockpiled all over the world. Libya (the only oil-producing country affected by the unrest so far) only produces 2% of the world's oil, and Saudi Arabia is likely to make up the shortfall.
> 
> It is the commodity speculators who are coining it, as usual, and the consumers (us) who pay the cost with 10% price increases at the pumps.
> 
> I'm going to ask my neighbour if I can borrow his donkey.
> 
> Georges Ugeux: Don't Worry about the Oil Prices: it is pure trading speculation, oil companies racketeering and ignorance


It's as I've said before allowing them to sell it 2,3 or 4 times while it's on the tanker , then if the price is not right they anchor in Torbay , some for 3 months , until the price is up. It's all wrong & should have been stopped years ago. 
What shows it's all speculation is during the night Reuters reported that Gaddafi had been shot, The oil price fell from $120 a barrel to $93 !
The Spanish government are just trying to con people, rather than reduce tax. There's no benefit to economy until you come down to 90kph. ( 56 mph ) There's no shortage of oil, nor is there any reason to allow the speculators to remain dealing whilst there is trouble in the middle -east.


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## Joppa

jojo said:


> I think he's talking more about the UK, in particular the M25 and the M27
> 
> Jo xxx


Tolls have a wonderful way of reducing traffic! Have you been on M6 Toll around Birmingham? It's never busy, while M6 is jammed!


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## Alcalaina

gus-lopez said:


> It's as I've said before allowing them to sell it 2,3 or 4 times while it's on the tanker , then if the price is not right they anchor in Torbay , some for 3 months , until the price is up. It's all wrong & should have been stopped years ago.
> What shows it's all speculation is during the night Reuters reported that Gaddafi had been shot, The oil price fell from $120 a barrel to $93 !
> The Spanish government are just trying to con people, rather than reduce tax. There's no benefit to economy until you come down to 90kph. ( 56 mph ) There's no shortage of oil, nor is there any reason to allow the speculators to remain dealing whilst there is trouble in the middle -east.


But Spain has to import all its oil, so why is it a con?

The "optimum" speed for fuel consumption depends on the vehicle - for smaller, lighter cars it is higher than heavy SUVs. I doubt they could get away with asking everyone to drive at 90 kph - there would be a riot - but a 15% saving from the proposed cut is still worth it.
Mpg For Speed - Fuel Efficiency Vs. Speed

There are lots of other ways to save fuel, e.g. by using the correct gears, and avoiding excessive accelerating and braking. Slow down for roundabouts etc by taking your foot off the gas well in advance rather than braking at the last minute (otherwise known as "how to enrage the Spanish male driver 10 ft behind you" - I know, I'm an expert ...)
Car - Fuel Efficiency


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## gus-lopez

Alcalaina said:


> But Spain has to import all its oil, so why is it a con?
> 
> The "optimum" speed for fuel consumption depends on the vehicle - for smaller, lighter cars it is higher than heavy SUVs. I doubt they could get away with asking everyone to drive at 90 kph - there would be a riot - but a 15% saving from the proposed cut is still worth it.
> Mpg For Speed - Fuel Efficiency Vs. Speed
> 
> There are lots of other ways to save fuel, e.g. by using the correct gears, and avoiding excessive accelerating and braking. Slow down for roundabouts etc by taking your foot off the gas well in advance rather than braking at the last minute (otherwise known as "how to enrage the Spanish male driver 10 ft behind you" - I know, I'm an expert ...)
> Car - Fuel Efficiency


The Uk also imports all it's oil. The 'North sea ' oil is not used for production of fuels being a top quality crude & is sold in to the open market. The savings worth it , if they get it , which won't happen. They'd save more if they banned the use of A/c which consumes around 20%, or stopped everyone driving around with there windows open ( increases consumption by 15-20% ) Why they sell cars here with 4, 5,6 & even 7speed manual gearboxes, puzzles me ? Most of the spaniards around here rarely get past 3rd gear. I've been in with dozens of them & most rarely use top gear even on the autovias !


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## Pesky Wesky

gus-lopez said:


> The Spanish government are just trying to con people, rather than reduce tax. There's no benefit to economy until you come down to 90kph. ( 56 mph ) There's no shortage of oil, nor is there any reason to allow the speculators to remain dealing whilst there is trouble in the middle -east.


The con might be going on, but who's conning who? ie who's putting the price up, and when in the chain is it happening?
Isn't it the petrol producers that are putting the price up unnecessarily, rather than the individual govenments?


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## Joppa

Pesky Wesky said:


> The con might be going on, but who's conning who? ie who's putting the price up, and when in the chain is it happening?
> Isn't it the petrol producers that are putting the price up unnecessarily, rather than the individual govenments?


Most big oil producers have long-term contract to get their crude oil at a fixed price, so that shouldn't affect pump prices. What is happening is that on open markets, like Rotterdam spot market, crude and finished petroleum products like petrol and diesel have been rising steeply with supply worries from Libya and possibly elsewhere from the Arab world. A large percentage of petrol sale in UK (and possibly most of Europe) is from the spot market (such as supermarkets), hence higher pump prices. The real gainers are oil giants like Shell, Esso (Exxon), Total, BP etc, cashing in on higher pump prices while they still get their crude at a fixed price. Speculators have been active bidding up prices on ICE (electronic commodity exchange), but of course they take a risk if there is a sudden fall and they have too many long positions.
That's why share prices of oil giants, and also natural gas producers like BG (gas prices are linked to crude oil), have been rising too. They have strategically been stockpiling their products so that they can release at higher market prices now.
Imagine you have a small oil field at the back of your garden. The cost of extracting oil has been stable, but now you can sell it to your petrol refineries at a much higher price - so pure profit for you!


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## Pesky Wesky

Joppa said:


> Most big petrol producers have long-term contract to get their crude oil at a fixed price, so that shouldn't affect pump prices. What is happening is that on open markets, like Rotterdam spot market, crude and finished petroleum products like petrol and diesel have been rising steeply with supply worries from Libya and possibly elsewhere from the Arab world. A large percentage of petrol sale in UK (and possibly most of Europe) is from the spot market (such as supermarkets), hence higher pump prices. The real gainers are oil giants like Shell, Esso (Exxon), Total, BP etc, cashing in on higher pump prices while they still get their crude at a fixed price. Speculators have of course been active bidding up prices on ICE (electronic commodity exchange), but of course they take a risk if there is a sudden fall and they have too many long positions.


Summarizing
It's not the government.
Or is it??
Cepsa and Repsol are govenment owned, aren't they?


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## Joppa

Pesky Wesky said:


> Summarizing
> It's not the government.
> Or is it??
> Cepsa and Repsol are govenment owned, aren't they?


Yes, but they operate like commercial companies and trade oil products at market rates. I suspect they rely on spot market more for their supply (though a small percentage may be on fixed contract from oil giants), so they haven't really benefited from hike in crude oil. It's easier to control inventory with spot supply, and it makes financial sense when oil price is broadly stable, but they get caught out when there is a sudden leap, like now.
Government still gains with a hike in crude because of taxation, unless higher pump prices lead to drop in demand.


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## Pesky Wesky

Joppa said:


> Yes, but they operate like commercial companies and trade oil products at market rates. I suspect they rely on spot market more for their supply (though a small percentage may be on fixed contract from oil giants), so they haven't really benefited from hike in crude oil. It's easier to control inventory with spot supply, and it makes financial sense when oil price is broadly stable, but they get caught out when there is a sudden leap, like now.
> Government still gains with a hike in crude because of taxation, unless higher pump prices lead to drop in demand.


So, everyone gains.
Except the consumer.
Of course!


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## Calas felices

*Speed reduction*

Along with the speed reduction from 120 to 110 it would seem they have also imposed a lowering of speeds in towns from 30 to 20 so jojo's other half will feel at home!


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## jojo

Calas felices said:


> Along with the speed reduction from 120 to 110 it would seem they have also imposed a lowering of speeds in towns from 30 to 20 so jojo's other half will feel at home!


 True but if you go that slowly apparently you use more fuel cos you tend to stay in a lower gear???? Cos lets face it 20kph is very slow, roughly 15mph????? 

Not that I've seen many drivers in Spain adhere to the speed limits now, so I'm not sure that they'll be particularly effective??

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

What about the 5% reduction in rail fares then? Will that encourage anyone to leave the car and catch the train?

In Cadiz the ayuntamientos are denouncing the local bus company for cutting rural services which apparently they are legally obliged to supply. Definitely not the right time for cutting public transport - but the bus company is suffering from rising oil prices ...


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> What about the 5% reduction in rail fares then? Will that encourage anyone to leave the car and catch the train?
> 
> In Cadiz the ayuntamientos are denouncing the local bus company for cutting rural services which apparently they are legally obliged to supply. Definitely not the right time for cutting public transport - but the bus company is suffering from rising oil prices ...


a conundrum! Perhaps we'd all better get donkeys!!  Thats the trouble with fuel tho. It affects every part of life, transporting food, goods. Running power plants, factories, hospitals...... So reducing speed limits is a drop in the ocean

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> What about the 5% reduction in rail fares then? Will that encourage anyone to leave the car and catch the train?
> 
> In Cadiz the ayuntamientos are denouncing the local bus company for cutting rural services which apparently they are legally obliged to supply. Definitely not the right time for cutting public transport - but the bus company is suffering from rising oil prices ...


Well let's see. The fare from A to B is 1€. With a 5% cut that makes it 0.95. OH WOW! Such a big difference! I'm going to run and catch the train right now!!

To answer your question Alcalaina, no.


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> a conundrum! Perhaps we'd all better get donkeys!!  Thats the trouble with fuel tho. It affects every part of life, transporting food, goods. Running power plants, factories, hospitals...... So reducing speed limits is a drop in the ocean
> 
> Jo xxx


Absolutely, but it's as much about awareness-raising I think. Fortunately Spain is a leading producer of renewable energy so hopefully in a few years' time we will be able to plug our hybrid cars into the mains overnight and let the wind turbines and solar farms charge them up ... 

I use a shopping trolley when I shop in the village, rather than taking the car (or donkey) - it's good exercise for me, and good for the environment. 

Which is just what I'm about to do now - remember shops in Andalucia will be closed on Monday!


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> Absolutely, but it's as much about awareness-raising I think. Fortunately Spain is a leading producer of renewable energy so hopefully in a few years' time we will be able to plug our hybrid cars into the mains overnight and let the wind turbines and solar farms charge them up ...



They need to do some work on the hybrid cars before they come anywhere near to being an effective alternative or even just plain effective!!!!! I have heard that there's some positive work coming thru on Hydrogen cars!????? In Spain, solar and wind power may just about work as it has the sun and the space, but for alot of other countries its all a bit lame IMO

Jo xxx


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## jimenato

jojo said:


> They need to do some work on the hybrid cars before they come anywhere near to being an effective alternative or even just plain effective!!!!! I have heard that there's some positive work coming thru on Hydrogen cars!????? In Spain, solar and wind power may just about work as it has the sun and the space, but for alot of other countries its all a bit lame IMO
> 
> Jo xxx


The trouble with hydrogen is that you've got to make it which is energy intensive. 

I can't see renewable generation coping with current electricity demand let alone increased demand for charging electric cars/making hydrogen for many years - if ever. 

Nuclear power is the only option in the short/medium term.


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## gus-lopez

UK's most useless wind turbine: Cost £130k to raise electricity worth £100k | Mail Online

Repsol do have an oilfield in .............Libya. They've just stopped production.

" What about the 5% reduction in rail fares then? Will that encourage anyone to leave the car and catch the train? " 
Not really unless I want to go to Águilas or Murcia. Then I've got to get to the stations, choice of two ,one you have to walk the 11km to & the other only 9km.

The government announced a couple of weeks ago that all 50kph limits in towns were being reduced to 30 kph but that was nothing to do with the 'fuel stuation'. 

20kph ( 12,5mph ) is the speed limit around schools, try it sometime , I have . You can run quicker !


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## ivorra

gus-lopez said:


> UK's most useless wind turbine: Cost £130k to raise electricity worth £100k | Mail Online
> 
> Repsol do have an oilfield in .............Libya. They've just stopped production.
> 
> " What about the 5% reduction in rail fares then? Will that encourage anyone to leave the car and catch the train? "
> Not really unless I want to go to Águilas or Murcia. Then I've got to get to the stations, choice of two ,one you have to walk the 11km to & the other only 9km.
> 
> The government announced a couple of weeks ago that all 50kph limits in towns were being reduced to 30 kph but that was nothing to do with the 'fuel stuation'.
> 
> 20kph ( 12,5mph ) is the speed limit around schools, try it sometime , I have . You can run quicker !


As I understand it the reduction to 30km/h in urban areas applies to single lane roads and was explained by the offcial responsible as a measure aimed at reducing the severity of injuries caused to pedestrians who are struck by vehicles. With regard to the new autoroute speed limit of 110 km/h it will be interesting to see if it is enforced any better than the old limit. There seems to be a class of drivers who are excused from obeying the law - in particular the drivers of white vans (presumably those that don't pay for the fuel out of their own pockets) and the drivers of powerful German made cars (do BMWs and Porches have a special dispensation to drive at twice the speed limit?).


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## Alcalaina

ivorra said:


> As I understand it the reduction to 30km/h in urban areas applies to single lane roads and was explained by the offcial responsible as a measure aimed at reducing the severity of injuries caused to pedestrians who are struck by vehicles. With regard to the new autoroute speed limit of 110 km/h it will be interesting to see if it is enforced any better than the old limit. There seems to be a class of drivers who are excused from obeying the law - in particular the drivers of white vans (presumably those that don't pay for the fuel out of their own pockets) and the drivers of powerful German made cars (do BMWs and Porches have a special dispensation to drive at twice the speed limit?).


There seems to be a plan to install 100 new speed cameras like the one in the A7 tunnel at Torrox: http://live.kyero.com/2011/02/19/average-speed-cameras-in-full-operation/

All those €600 fines should help balance the national debt ...


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## dunmovin

Alcalaina said:


> There seems to be a plan to install 100 new speed cameras like the one in the A7 tunnel at Torrox: http://live.kyero.com/2011/02/19/average-speed-cameras-in-full-operation/
> 
> All those €600 fines should help balance the national debt ...


NOW..... there's a point that will appeal to the bean counters..... a reduction in 10km/h will have as much effect on the nation's fuel consumption as someone trying to empty the Med with a soupspoon..... but it WILL increase fines, it will be seen by some as the government taking a "proactive" stance to looming fuel shortage(which isn't going to happen, as the rest of OPEC will take up Libya's shortfall)

Is the speed limit reducution going to deter someone who ignored the 120km/h limit? NO! Is the speed limit reducution going to deter someone with a car that has a huge engine from using it? NO!

At best, this is "window dressing". At worst, it's a desperate way to raise revenue.


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## littleredrooster

Much better to do something similar to the UK by vastly increasing tax on big motors and high emissions with the increased income going into the govt tax coffers.


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## gus-lopez

The only problem with average speed cameras is that they are dangerous & can cause accidents on the open road, in tunnels they are deadly. Someone who enters a tunnel at too high a speed , then realises ,knows that they only way to reduce the 'averaging' effect is to reduce the speed to an exceptionally low figure & lays in to the brakes to reduce the average speed. I've even seen people more or less stop. That'll be wonderful in a tunnel, I can see the rear end shunts coming now.


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## jimenato

This is a bit odd then isn't it?



> Speed limits on the motorway could be increased to 80mph in a bid to increase productivity, Philip Hammond, the transport secretary, has suggested.





> Mr Hammond said that safety might no longer be the sole consideration in judging how fast cars can go and that gains to the economy from shorter journey times should also be taken into account.
> 
> Britain's maximum speed limit has been 70mph since 1965 and is lower than most in continental Europe.


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## DunWorkin

How are they going to notify drivers about the changes in speed limits? Are all the roadside signs going to be changed or are they assuming people will have read about it in the press?

There are a lot of people (ex-pats) here in Spain that never read a Spanish newspaper or watch Spanish TV.


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## jojo

DunWorkin said:


> How are they going to notify drivers about the changes in speed limits? Are all the roadside signs going to be changed or are they assuming people will have read about it in the press?
> 
> There are a lot of people (ex-pats) here in Spain that never read a Spanish newspaper or watch Spanish TV.


That'll be the costly bit, I wonder how much that will take out of their cost saving measures??

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

DunWorkin said:


> How are they going to notify drivers about the changes in speed limits? Are all the roadside signs going to be changed or are they assuming people will have read about it in the press?
> 
> There are a lot of people (ex-pats) here in Spain that never read a Spanish newspaper or watch Spanish TV.


They are putting stickers over the existing signs.


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## Calas felices

*Stickers*

So how long will it be before either the stickers are removed (the Spanish spray can the road side cameras in our area!) or the sun dries them off?


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> That'll be the costly bit, I wonder how much that will take out of their cost saving measures??
> 
> Jo xxx


Only €250k - they´ll soon recoup that in speeding fines ...

Seriously though, this is part of a raft of measures to reduce Spain´s dependency on imported oil, which can only be a good thing given that we have no control over the price set by the oil companies or the dollar exchange rate (oil is priced in dollars). 

There will be other measures like restricting the use of air conditioning in public buildings - no lower than 26 degrees (they did this in Madrid last summer).


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## Alcalaina

gus-lopez said:


> The government announced a couple of weeks ago that all 50kph limits in towns were being reduced to 30 kph but that was nothing to do with the 'fuel stuation'.
> 
> 20kph ( 12,5mph ) is the speed limit around schools, try it sometime , I have . You can run quicker !


That´s a safety issue though isn´t it. If I were a parent I would be happy about that.


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## Alcalaina

dunmovin said:


> NOW..... there's a point that will appeal to the bean counters..... a reduction in 10km/h will have as much effect on the nation's fuel consumption as someone trying to empty the Med with a soupspoon..... but it WILL increase fines, it will be seen by some as the government taking a "proactive" stance to looming fuel shortage(which isn't going to happen, as the rest of OPEC will take up Libya's shortfall)
> 
> Is the speed limit reducution going to deter someone who ignored the 120km/h limit? NO! Is the speed limit reducution going to deter someone with a car that has a huge engine from using it? NO!
> 
> At best, this is "window dressing". At worst, it's a desperate way to raise revenue.


Actually I think it is a proactive stance against the inevitable price rises, rather than shortage, of oil. And people will see the benefit in their own pocket too, if they spend 15% less on petrol.

The best way to avoid speeding fines is not to speed ... and the new limit is only 2 mph different from the 70 mph limit in the UK, so it´s no big deal.


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## littleredrooster

gus-lopez said:


> The only problem with average speed cameras is that they are dangerous & can cause accidents on the open road, in tunnels they are deadly. Someone who enters a tunnel at too high a speed , then realises ,knows that they only way to reduce the 'averaging' effect is to reduce the speed to an exceptionally low figure & lays in to the brakes to reduce the average speed. I've even seen people more or less stop. That'll be wonderful in a tunnel, I can see the rear end shunts coming now.


Surely that was the arguement against normal speed cameras.
The repetitive stop/start or slow/fast was said to cause quite a few mishaps.

Not so much the case with average speed cameras, from what I have seen of them.

Surely it will not be legal for motorists to be fined for breaking the limit if the old limit signs are still in place or else haven't been replaced.


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> That´s a safety issue though isn´t it. If I were a parent I would be happy about that.



I am a parent, as are most who probably do drive a tad over 12.5mph!

Jo xxx


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## ivorra

gus-lopez said:


> The only problem with average speed cameras is that they are dangerous & can cause accidents on the open road, in tunnels they are deadly. Someone who enters a tunnel at too high a speed , then realises ,knows that they only way to reduce the 'averaging' effect is to reduce the speed to an exceptionally low figure & lays in to the brakes to reduce the average speed. I've even seen people more or less stop. That'll be wonderful in a tunnel, I can see the rear end shunts coming now.


An odd way to look at it - the speed cameras "cause" the accidents not the reckless drivers. Much like the comment sometimes heard on the local news here reporting traffic accidents on a rainy morning - 'the rain caused the crashes'!


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> I am a parent, as are most who probably do drive a tad over 12.5mph!
> 
> Jo xxx


I´m sure you´d feel differently if your child was hit by a speeding vehicle as she was coming out of school ...

Do they have lollipop ladies in Spain? I haven´t seen any round here, though they have just put in a load of zebra crossings which nobody takes any notice of.


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## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> I´m sure you´d feel differently if your child was hit by a speeding vehicle as she was coming out of school ...
> 
> Do they have lollipop ladies in Spain? I haven´t seen any round here, though they have just put in a load of zebra crossings which nobody takes any notice of.


the _policía local_ man the crossings outside the primary schools here


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> I´m sure you´d feel differently if your child was hit by a speeding vehicle as she was coming out of school ...
> 
> Do they have lollipop ladies in Spain? I haven´t seen any round here, though they have just put in a load of zebra crossings which nobody takes any notice of.


I'm not saying its wrong, I'm just pointing out that the culprits are parents in the main, cos they're the ones who are usually driving around a school at pick up/drop off time. However, the chance of moving in the car atall seem to be remote at all the schools my kids have attended. What generally happens is that kids stand on the pavement and parents simply stop in the traffic and their offspring climb in, holding up the traffic behind. Usually there are parked cars on each side of the road, a couple of local police standing watching and the whole area is just a chaotice mess and there is no chance of getting anywhere near the speed limit

Jo xxx


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## jimenato

jojo said:


> I'm not saying its wrong, I'm just pointing out that the culprits are parents in the main, cos they're the ones who are usually driving around a school at pick up/drop off time. However, the chance of moving in the car atall seem to be remote at all the schools my kids have attended. What generally happens is that kids stand on the pavement and parents simply stop in the traffic and their offspring climb in, holding up the traffic behind. Usually there are parked cars on each side of the road, a couple of local police standing watching and the whole area is just a chaotice mess and there is no chance of getting anywhere near the speed limit
> 
> Jo xxx


And none of the kids wear seat belts either so they obviously don't care too much...


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## gus-lopez

The point I was making is that an earlier poster pointed out that they were reducing the 30kph limit to 20 in the towns. The 20 limit has always been in force around schools & yes we used to have the policia local / medio ambiente ,but since the cuts we've got unpaid lollipop men! 
When Rubacalba announced the new reduced limit , the figure of 250,000€'s was stated as the cost. He probably was telling the politicians truth ,just not the truth ,the whole truth & nothing but the truth. The 250k is the cost of the stickers, the actual cost for each sign being spoken of this morning is 140€ each !!!!

The reduction in a/c temps. would appear to be another load of smoke & mirrors as the brought in a new law 2 years back stating that all commercial premises had to have an A7c temp . in summer no lower than 21º & in winter no higher than 26º. In addition any premises using a/c & heating had to have doors which remained shut , therefore making all those clothes & shoe shops in commercial centres & anyone else with no doors illegal. They haven't enforced that yet !
http://www.carbibles.com/images/speedingexcuse.jpg


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## Alcalaina

gus-lopez said:


> The point I was making is that an earlier poster pointed out that they were reducing the 30kph limit to 20 in the towns. The 20 limit has always been in force around schools & yes we used to have the policia local / medio ambiente ,but since the cuts we've got unpaid lollipop men!
> When Rubacalba announced the new reduced limit , the figure of 250,000€'s was stated as the cost. He probably was telling the politicians truth ,just not the truth ,the whole truth & nothing but the truth. The 250k is the cost of the stickers, the actual cost for each sign being spoken of this morning is 140€ each !!!!
> 
> The reduction in a/c temps. would appear to be another load of smoke & mirrors as the brought in a new law 2 years back stating that all commercial premises had to have an A7c temp . in summer no lower than 21º & in winter no higher than 26º. In addition any premises using a/c & heating had to have doors which remained shut , therefore making all those clothes & shoe shops in commercial centres & anyone else with no doors illegal. They haven't enforced that yet !
> http://www.carbibles.com/images/speedingexcuse.jpg


So do you think these measures are all a complete waste of time and money then? What would you do if you were in charge? Just let the market run its course and let people drive as fast as they like?

I did a course on traffic management at university (among other things) and believe me it is a complete nightmare. Every well-intentioned measure you take has an unwanted effect somewhere else, sometimes worse than the one you were trying to fix. I once wrote a paper proposing a laissez-faire model for urban traffic; people could park where they like, no traffic-calming installations, no one-way systems. My theory was that people would either start to behave sensibly and drive more carefully because of the increased risk, or else it would get so anarchic that they would dump the car and walk ...


----------



## dinnow

Alcalaina said:


> So do you think these measures are all a complete waste of time and money then? What would you do if you were in charge? Just let the market run its course and let people drive as fast as they like?
> 
> I did a course on traffic management at university (among other things) and believe me it is a complete nightmare. Every well-intentioned measure you take has an unwanted effect somewhere else, sometimes worse than the one you were trying to fix. I once wrote a paper proposing a laissez-faire model for urban traffic; people could park where they like, no traffic-calming installations, no one-way systems. My theory was that people would either start to behave sensibly and drive more carefully because of the increased risk, or else it would get so anarchic that they would dump the car and walk ...


Interesting. I've always thought that speeding should not be a crime but should be available to a court as evidence against someone charged with dangerous driving. Speed limits are nanny state mentality. You the driver cannot be trusted to use your judgement as to what is a safe speed so big brother beaurocrat will decide it for you. 
Dangerous and irresponsible driving should be a crime. Speeding outside a school is is dangerous and irresponsible driving. So is reversing into a child a 10mph outside a school.
Driving at 200kph on the motorway in a Ford Fiesta is dangeous driving as you will be clinging on for dear life. Driving at 200kph on the motorway in a performance car is not in itself dangerous driving because the performance car is designed to go that fast safely, has far superior road holding and braking and other features.
It is generally accepted that if you run into a stationary object at much more than 80kph, you are dead. In a head on collision it's half that. So once you've accepted a speed limit above that it makes very little difference.
You've got my vote for Transport Minister Alcalaina :clap2:


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## Joppa

dinnow said:


> Interesting. I've always thought that speeding should not be a crime but should be available to a court as evidence against someone charged with dangerous driving. Speed limits are nanny state mentality. You the driver cannot be trusted to use your judgement as to what is a safe speed so big brother beaurocrat will decide it for you.
> Dangerous and irresponsible driving should be a crime. Speeding outside a school is is dangerous and irresponsible driving. So is reversing into a child a 10mph outside a school.
> Driving at 200kph on the motorway in a Ford Fiesta is dangeous driving as you will be clinging on for dear life. Driving at 200kph on the motorway in a performance car is not in itself dangerous driving because the performance car is designed to go that fast safely, has far superior road holding and braking and other features.
> It is generally accepted that if you run into a stationary object at much more than 80kph, you are dead. In a head on collision it's half that. So once you've accepted a speed limit above that it makes very little difference.
> You've got my vote for Transport Minister Alcalaina :clap2:


This has broadly been the thinking in Germany about overall speed limit, which still doesn't exist there for Autobahn. There are limits near junctions and urban areas, temporary limit at road works and some states have a lower limit to counter air pollution, but generally, where you see deristricted sign (round white sign with black diagonal line), there is no maximum speed limit. Mind you, an average German is a better driver than just about anywhere else in Europe, and since they are all used to high speed (either by themselves or by other road users), they are fastidious about lane discipline, priority, checking mirros and indicating, so provided you have a well-maintained performance car, averaging over 200 km/h in good conditions presents no greater risks than pushing a banger at 80 mph in UK, and quite possibly less. Granted that death tolls are about 1/3 higher than in UK, but there seems to be no political will to restrict personal freedom to travel as fast as one likes ('Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger') except by the Greens. 
Also if you do decide to drive fast, you automatically assume responsibility for it, so much so that if a slower car cuts in front of you and you hit it, you will be partly to blame on the ground that if you haven't been driving so fast, you should have been able to avoid a collision. This goes for a speed higher than 130 km/h, which they call advisory speed limit (Richtgeschwindigkeit). It's not an offence to drive faster, but you take on increased liability in case of an accident.
Having driven in many European countries as well as in UK, I don't think this sysytem will work anywhere else, because of differences in driver discipline, skills level and congestion. In most countries, there is a general assumption that drivers are stupid, make silly mistakes, so in order to spare carnage on the road, a lower limit must be applied and strictly enforced.


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> So do you think these measures are all a complete waste of time and money then? What would you do if you were in charge? Just let the market run its course and let people drive as fast as they like?



Thats what they seem to do in Spain now, besides, we're taught agbout speed limits and dangers etc when we learn to drive. If they want to enforce the new rules they'll need a lot more traffic police. However, most people do use common sense on the roads and I personally have never felt that speed is the sole danger, its more carelessness and driver error. Lets face it, however fast or slow you go, if you're careless enough to do something silly, you risk yourself and others. When you take peoples common sense away from them with too many rules, they just become rebellious, incapable of judgement and more daring!

Can I just say that I'm kinda playing devils advocate on this. I personally dont like driving fast and the reason is because I dont feel safe doing so - I think some people are more capable than others and most people know their limitations and drive accordingly and thats regardless of the rules before or after

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> Thats what they seem to do in Spain now, besides, we're taught agbout speed limits and dangers etc when we learn to drive. If they want to enforce the new rules they'll need a lot more traffic police. However, most people do use common sense on the roads and I personally have never felt that speed is the sole danger, its more carelessness and driver error. Lets face it, however fast or slow you go, if you're careless enough to do something silly, you risk yourself and others. When you take peoples common sense away from them with too many rules, they just become rebellious, incapable of judgement and more daring!
> 
> Can I just say that I'm kinda playing devils advocate on this. I personally dont like driving fast and the reason is because I dont feel safe doing so - I think some people are more capable than others and most people know their limitations and drive accordingly and thats regardless of the rules before or after
> 
> Jo xxx


I agree with you Jo (that makes a change!) I think Spanish culture traditionally advocates personal responsibility rather than trying to legislate against dangerous activities. No other country would allow bulls to chase people through the streets, for example. 

I've always believed that humans (especially young males) have an inbuilt need to take risks, and if you stop them doing one thing, they will find another, possibly more dangerous activity. 

But when these dangerous activities endanger other people, you have a moral dilemma. Spain is moving towards a more protective role - some use the term "nanny state" - in line with the rest of Europe. Hence the smoking ban, driving restrictions, more safety controls at the bull runs. Lives will undoubtedly be saved, but I hope the price of these measures isn't a reduction in personal responsibility. This has become almost extinct in the UK, where everything is someone else's fault and you sue the Council if you trip over a paving stone.


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Thats what they seem to do in Spain now, besides, we're taught agbout speed limits and dangers etc when we learn to drive. If they want to enforce the new rules they'll need a lot more traffic police. However, most people do use common sense on the roads and I personally have never felt that speed is the sole danger, its more carelessness and driver error. Lets face it, however fast or slow you go, if you're careless enough to do something silly, you risk yourself and others. When you take peoples common sense away from them with too many rules, they just become rebellious, incapable of judgement and more daring!
> 
> Can I just say that I'm kinda playing devils advocate on this. I personally dont like driving fast and the reason is because I dont feel safe doing so - I think some people are more capable than others and most people know their limitations and drive accordingly and thats regardless of the rules before or after
> 
> Jo xxx


However...
The idea was to save fuel - perhaps something that should be included in the courses at driving schools. Perhaps it already is?
This is what one company says about ways to save petrol.
http://www.wetryharder.co.uk/2011/02/driving-tips-to-save-you-money-on-fuel-when-renting-a-car/
Apparently, after looking at several sites keeping tyres properly inflated is not only a safety measure, but also a way of economising on petrol. Now wouldn't it be cheaper to have a tyre inflating campaign than changing the speed limit campaign?


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> However...
> The idea was to save fuel - perhaps something that should be included in the courses at driving schools.* Perhaps it already is?*
> This is what one company says about ways to save petrol.
> Avis Car Hire UK – We Try Harder Blog Blog Archive Driving tips to save you money on fuel when renting a car.
> Apparently, after looking at several sites keeping tyres properly inflated is not only a safety measure, but also a way of economising on petrol. Now wouldn't it be cheaper to have a tyre inflating campaign than changing the speed limit campaign?


It is in the UK. I took my test in 2007 and was taught all these things.


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## dunmovin

Pesky Wesky said:


> However...
> The idea was to save fuel - perhaps something that should be included in the courses at driving schools. Perhaps it already is?
> This is what one company says about ways to save petrol.
> Avis Car Hire UK – We Try Harder Blog Blog Archive Driving tips to save you money on fuel when renting a car.
> Apparently, after looking at several sites *keeping tyres properly inflated is not only a safety measure, but also a way of economising on petrol.* Now wouldn't it be cheaper to have a tyre inflating campaign than changing the speed limit campaign?


an underinflated can raise your fuel consumption by almost 9km per 5 litres of fuel (5.5 miles per gallon) as well as drastically affect the car's handling.

Speed is something that, in itself and in the peoper circumstances is not the big danger. What is a danger, is the people who try to drive a high speed in the wrong place/in the wrong conditions and fail to take notice of other roadusers.

At 48/49 kph (about 30mph) a car will cover 13.5 metres (44ft) per SECOND. Around schools and playgrounds, a speed reduction IS sensible, but to reduce the limit on the autovia, I can't agree.


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## gus-lopez

Alcalaina said:


> So do you think these measures are all a complete waste of time and money then? What would you do if you were in charge? Just let the market run its course and let people drive as fast as they like?
> 
> I did a course on traffic management at university (among other things) and believe me it is a complete nightmare. Every well-intentioned measure you take has an unwanted effect somewhere else, sometimes worse than the one you were trying to fix. I once wrote a paper proposing a laissez-faire model for urban traffic; people could park where they like, no traffic-calming installations, no one-way systems. My theory was that people would either start to behave sensibly and drive more carefully because of the increased risk, or else it would get so anarchic that they would dump the car and walk ...


They are if you introduce them & do not enforce them. With regards to speed it is the incorrect use of speed that is the problem not speeding itself. I certainly don't speed around schools , etc ; when you see the absolute shambles around & near them here at drop off time in the mornings it's a wonder no one is injured on a daily basis.
Referring to your traffic management course , yes it is a complete nightmare . The M25 springs to mind. during the design period an eminent & renowned Professor from Newcastle university proposed that only certain main junctions should be entry/exit as to have all would lead to traffic hold-ups & chaos, caused by people 'popping ' on at one junction & off at the next & using it for school runs. In addition to have the inside lane disappear at some exits , leaving only 2 lanes , & reappearing on the other entry side was madness. When he was outvoted He resigned ,but was proved completely correct. The road is an utter nightmare in places. When they eventually had to increase the M4/M40 etc; areas to 4 lanes why did they not restrict lorries to only the two inside lanes ? 
What would I do if I was in charge; I don't even know where to start as the list appears to be endless.


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## VFR

So just what should the government have done then to try to alleviate the *expected* shortage in supply, yes when the troubles first kicked off it seemed likely that the supply would suffer.

Reducing speed on the motorway *will* save fuel & of course so will a lot of other measures, but the other measures would/will take a long time to educate those who are unaware & its clear that many are not aware when you look around.
Still having said that to me its obvious that many drivers are now driving a lot slower since fuel prices have climbed over the past year.

Moving freight to rail is only viable over 8 hours + driving time & even then for only a small amount of freight in the *vast type* that travel by road.
Any trailer/container/wagon that is destined to go via rail has to be built to certain sizes-be very strong-and will be heavy as a result.
Industry nowadays relies on Just in Time delivery's as the vast bulk of factory's carry no stock worth talking about & road freight can respond to this and unfortunately rail cannot.

So on balance the government made a good call IMO and reinforced this with a reduction in rail prices.


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## gus-lopez

The government has said that these limits will remain in force until the 30th June , when they will be reviewed.


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## VFR

My findings.
Yesterday I traveled from home to Malaga area, 57 euros to fill the tank from empty with Cepsa Gasolio Ultima (worth it on a long run)
660km showing on the trip now & 800 showing will need a fill again, kept the speed 110-120 for the vast bulk off the journey (as did most others on the road) and before it would have been 120-130 being the norm.
Time difference not really worth talking about & this reduction although small does make a difference on This Type of journey.
BTW vehicle is an Astra 1.7tdi that is getting on a bit but still sound.


Having said that.
One thing that had not occurred to me is that there will be an enormous expense changing ALL the the signs to read 110 & most are now fitted waiting to be uncovered on Monday. Just how much this exercise is costing is anyones guess, but odds on it is not cheap as all work on major roads is expensive.


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## jojo

playamonte said:


> Having said that.
> One thing that had not occurred to me is that there will be an enormous expense changing ALL the the signs to read 110 & most are now fitted waiting to be uncovered on Monday. Just how much this exercise is costing is anyones guess, but odds on it is not cheap as all work on major roads is expensive.


That occurred to me and seems ridiculous for such a small difference, especially as not many people adhere to the limits anyway. I rarely go faster than the speed limit and I'm often getting tooted for going too slow or I have cars whizzing passed me (I should drive an aixum really lol).......and as the previous post from gus says that they're reviewing it at the end of June???

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

playamonte said:


> Having said that.
> One thing that had not occurred to me is that there will be an enormous expense changing ALL the the signs to read 110 & most are now fitted waiting to be uncovered on Monday. Just how much this exercise is costing is anyones guess, but odds on it is not cheap as all work on major roads is expensive.


Which is what I was referring to several posts back when I said



> Apparently, after looking at several sites keeping tyres properly inflated is not only a safety measure, but also a way of economising on petrol. Now wouldn't it be cheaper to have a tyre inflating campaign than changing the speed limit campaign?


I think there are many ways of using less fuel, for economising or reducing the amount of fuel 

consumed. How about turning off all appliances when not in use for example? (which means 

turning off the standby button too). I think reducing speed reduces petrol consumption, in fact I _*

know*_ it does. However is this campaign for reducing speed the best idea for Spain at this 

moment taking into account what is likely to be achieved and its cost? I don't think so. I also 

said in another post that the govenment is probably counting on money from the fines that it 

will give rather than actual reduced fuel consumption.


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## Pesky Wesky

Some people are not happy about the proposed cuts
Backlash over Spain's energy saving - Telegraph


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some people are not happy about the proposed cuts
> Backlash over Spain's energy saving - Telegraph


Well it does seem a bit daft to me, public transport here isnt that expensive in the first place and they have only just put it up in our area (It went from 1.30€ to 1.50€ from Benalmadena to Malaga airport - 25 min journey)

Typical of Spain that they dont bother talking about things before announcing it!

Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez

playamonte said:


> My findings.
> Yesterday I traveled from home to Malaga area, 57 euros to fill the tank from empty with Cepsa Gasolio Ultima (worth it on a long run)
> 660km showing on the trip now & 800 showing will need a fill again, kept the speed 110-120 for the vast bulk off the journey (as did most others on the road) and before it would have been 120-130 being the norm.
> Time difference not really worth talking about & this reduction although small does make a difference on This Type of journey.
> BTW vehicle is an Astra 1.7tdi that is getting on a bit but still sound.
> 
> 
> Having said that.
> One thing that had not occurred to me is that there will be an enormous expense changing ALL the the signs to read 110 & most are now fitted waiting to be uncovered on Monday. Just how much this exercise is costing is anyones guess, but odds on it is not cheap as all work on major roads is expensive.


Yes , I was dragged out to go to San Javier yesterday, for some reason the wife decided to discuss climate change & global warming on the way there. As I don't normally talk whilst driving ,the speed was obviously down & I managed to restrain myself on the way home when I normally go much faster having lost the will to live & want to get home. On filling I was quite surprised that it worked out at 8,2L / 100Km or 35 Mpg. Not bad for a 2T + , auto; Mpv. 

Yes, they reckon changing the signs will cost 140€'s each,& the performance two lads were making of it yesterday , I'd have thoughtthat was cheap!

Pesky , I do all that already , since I learny , years ago that when leaving a t.v. on standby it consumes 90% of the power required for being on !!


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## jojo

Please dont shoot me down for saying this, bear in mind that my OH sells TVs, HiFis and electrical equipment, BUT he always says that turning the standby button off actually means you use more electricity turning them back on than to leave them in standby mode - unless of course its something you dont use often

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Please dont shoot me down for saying this, bear in mind that my OH sells TVs, HiFis and electrical equipment, BUT he always says that turning the standby button off actually means you use more electricity turning them back on than to leave them in standby mode - unless of course its something you dont use often
> 
> Jo xxx


I don't think that's true any more, if it ever was, but obviously your man would know more about it!! They used to say that about flourescent lights, but 'tis no more. Another thing is, it may depend on how long you're not going to be using it ie switch it off at night, but if you're going to be using it off and on during the day leav the standby on??? Ask him to check it out??


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think that's true any more, if it ever was, but obviously your man would know more about it!! They used to say that about flourescent lights, but 'tis no more. Another thing is, it may depend on how long you're not going to be using it ie switch it off at night, but if you're going to be using it off and on during the day leav the standby on??? Ask him to check it out??


All I know is that he used to get quite animated when the adverts used to come on TV telling everyone to turn their standby buttons off and tells us not to "because its nonsense". He also says that turning some things off means that they reboot, need resetting and that uses more power etc. 

I think that some manufacturers have changed the power needed to maintain standby so that the power being used is even less now???? And theres something about most of them now having some kind of power supply within (a rechargeable battery???) that means they use slightly more power when they're on to enable them not to need to be on standby?? And they advertise this as an advantage - altho the power consumption isnt any less - if that makes sense???? He's not here so I cant ask him and I glaze over when he talks about it lol!!

Jo xxx


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## jimenato

gus-lopez said:


> Yes , I was dragged out to go to San Javier yesterday, for some reason the wife decided to discuss climate change & global warming on the way there. As I don't normally talk whilst driving ,the speed was obviously down & I managed to restrain myself on the way home when I normally go much faster having lost the will to live & want to get home. On filling I was quite surprised that it worked out at 8,2L / 100Km or 35 Mpg. Not bad for a 2T + , auto; Mpv.
> 
> Yes, they reckon changing the signs will cost 140€'s each,& the performance two lads were making of it yesterday , I'd have thoughtthat was cheap!
> 
> Pesky , I do all that already , since I learny , years ago that when leaving a t.v. on standby it consumes 90% of the power required for being on !!


Don't believe everything you hear Gus. A modern LCD television uses 50 to 100 watts when in use but much less than 1 watt on standby.


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## baldilocks

The thing is with fluorescent lights (and that includes most of the "low energy" bombillas) they use up material from the electrodes when they are striking, thus shortening the life of the tube. In addition the power used in getting the tube to strike is far greater than long-term running which is why gas-discharge lights are used for long-term/continuous lighting (e.g. street lighting) rather than on/off. The costs of the more frequent tube replacement resulting from more frequent switching plus the environmental effect of disposal of the old tubes need to be factored in as well!


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## jojo

baldilocks said:


> The thing is with fluorescent lights (and that includes most of the "low energy" bombillas) they use up material from the electrodes when they are striking, thus shortening the life of the tube. In addition the power used in getting the tube to strike is far greater than long-term running which is why gas-discharge lights are used for long-term/continuous lighting (e.g. street lighting) rather than on/off. The costs of the more frequent tube replacement resulting from more frequent switching plus the environmental effect of disposal of the old tubes need to be factored in as well!


Gosh, thats what my OH says - you're not him in disguise are you lol??????

Seriously tho, my OH doesnt like the new "energy saving" light bulbs, he says they emit radiation or something (apparently if you have too many of them switched on they can affect your tv remote control??) and yes, disposing of them isnt ever mentioned??!!!!!!!


Jo xxx


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## jimenato

baldilocks said:


> The thing is with fluorescent lights (and that includes most of the "low energy" bombillas) they use up material from the electrodes when they are striking, thus shortening the life of the tube. In addition the power used in getting the tube to strike is far greater than long-term running which is why gas-discharge lights are used for long-term/continuous lighting (e.g. street lighting) rather than on/off. The costs of the more frequent tube replacement resulting from more frequent switching plus the environmental effect of disposal of the old tubes need to be factored in as well!


The extra power used to switch on any kind of modern domestic lighting isn't particularly significant - no more than a second or so of normal running power. The most power hungry to switch on are fluorescent tubes which use 23 seconds worth of normal running power to switch on. 

The life of a modern energy saving bulb is not significantly shortened by switching on and off.


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## gus-lopez

I must admit I'm not a lover of the energy saving bulbs. I fitted 2 on our two gate pillars when we 1st built them. In 6 years they had had to be changed 15 times , fortunately they were Phillips & under gtee. When they failed again & were out of gtee; I bought some from the chinese shop & they've not been changed in 2,1/2 years ! They only come on for a max. 6 hrs in winter & barely 2 in summer.


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## gus-lopez

Perhaps we'll all go back to what my mum used to do. She used to turn off the electric at the mains when she went to bed at night & when we went on holiday she'd turn off the electric at the mains, water & gas @ the stopcocks !! 
When she used the electric cooker it was always turned off at its main switch afterwards. I used to wonder why she bought one with a clock.


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## baldilocks

gus-lopez said:


> Perhaps we'll all go back to what my mum used to do. She used to turn off the electric at the mains when she went to bed at night & when we went on holiday she'd turn off the electric at the mains, water & gas @ the stopcocks !!
> When she used the electric cooker it was always turned off at its main switch afterwards. I used to wonder why she bought one with a clock.


She obviously didn't have a freezer either!


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## jojo

gus-lopez said:


> They only come on for a max. 6 hrs in winter & barely 2 in summer.


hmmmmmm do you really need them on everynight???  We only put ours on if we're going out :eyebrows:

Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> hmmmmmm do you really need them on everynight???  We only put ours on if we're going out :eyebrows:
> 
> Jo xxx


That's how the burglars know you're not in !  No , They don't need to be on at all really as I don't go out , they mainly light the road so the locals don't crash in to the ditches.


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## NotinUse

I have a little phut phut and I think all those who pull into garages on their little phut phuts to fill up (all of 3 litres) should get fuel half price, a cup of tea and a muffin.
This small allocation of cheap fuel and muffins will undoubtably encourage more people to get a phut phut.
Thus less traffic problems and incredible fuel saving and ... hang on it gets better.

The demand for muffins will create new muffin factories and so create new jobs.


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## baldilocks

NotinUse said:


> I have a little phut phut and I think all those who pull into garages on their little phut phuts to fill up (all of 3 litres) should get fuel half price, a cup of tea and a muffin.
> This small allocation of cheap fuel and muffins will undoubtably encourage more people to get a phut phut.
> Thus less traffic problems and incredible fuel saving and ... hang on it gets better.
> 
> The demand for muffins will create new muffin factories and so create new jobs.


If you are referring to one of those toy pedal cars - they DO NOT save fuel because we are stuck behind them in 1st or 2nd gear and they DO cause traffic problems in the form of a traffic jam moving along at an incredible 15 kph!


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## NotinUse

baldilocks said:


> If you are referring to one of those toy pedal cars - they DO NOT save fuel because we are stuck behind them in 1st or 2nd gear and they DO cause traffic problems in the form of a traffic jam moving along at an incredible 15 kph!


No that's a Noddy car and I agree, in fact they should be penalized with a nuisance tax. My phut phut has two wheels, and besides even Noddy's car takes more than 3 litres of fuel.


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## gus-lopez

baldilocks said:


> She obviously didn't have a freezer either!


Good Lord no ! A washing machine never appeared until I'd got married.


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## Pesky Wesky

Cars on the motorway today were definitely going slower this morning. Reports on the radio of two other motorways near Madrid said the same. Of course, not everybody was keeping to the limit, but the vast majority were and traffic as a consequence was quite a lot slower with the average speed being about 95/ 100, but free flowing. 
I think things had speeded up a bit by the afternoon.
We'll see what it's like at the end of the week, and see whether "Trafico" has been able to cope with all the fining if a lot of people have been caught


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## Guest

I was talking to mom on the phone tonight and she asked me to convert the euro price per liter into US dollar price per gallon.

I almost cried. I had never calculated it like that before. Jeezum. 

Anyhow, I'm happy for the 110 bit. OH used to push the limits, climbing hills (_Saltacaballo for those who know the Bilbao-Santander route_) er, faster than he should have. Now, there's a better excuse for the ol' "Honey, don't you think you should go a bit slower?"


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## donz

there was a huge amount of guardia civil out yesterday morning but then I went from Malaga to Banus and back last night about 7pm and didn't see a single one - thus every idiot was taking my doors off as they drove past me doing my respectable 110...


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## jojo

I'm starting to think this speed limit thing is a bit stupid! I'm not a fast driver, but I was struggling to keep below it in a lot of places and worse than that, I found myself in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears alot more than I ever used to be, I cant do 20 or even 30 kph in anything more than 3rd and surely that means I'm using more petrol - well I know it does cos my car tells me my average fuel consumption!

... and I got tooted and swerved at a couple of times driving home this evening cos I was going so slow - I was doing the speed limited!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

In the book I was reading last night the main character was said to be _*HURTLING*_ along the motorway at 100km/h


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## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> In the book I was reading last night the main character was said to be _*HURTLING*_ along the motorway at 100km/h


If the author was into serious exaggeration, he was probably also driving an AIXAM! :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> If the author was into serious exaggeration, he was probably also driving an AIXAM! :clap2::clap2::clap2:


lol!!

I doubt the American author had ever heard of one of those...............


mind you, I suppose 68 some odd miles an hour_ is_ fast to an American...


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## VFR

jojo said:


> I'm starting to think this speed limit thing is a bit stupid! I'm not a fast driver, but I was struggling to keep below it in a lot of places and worse than that, I found myself in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears alot more than I ever used to be, I cant do 20 or even 30 kph in anything more than 3rd and surely that means I'm using more petrol - well I know it does cos my car tells me my average fuel consumption!
> 
> ... and I got tooted and swerved at a couple of times driving home this evening cos I was going so slow - I was doing the speed limited!
> 
> Jo xxx


What limit Jo ?, the 110 will see you in top gear & that is around 2500rpm for most vehicles nowadays. This is a reasonable RPM to be at to obtain economy but at a reasonable speed.
Lower limit ?, then simply change down a gear to keep the RPM at-or around the 2000 to 3000 (max) mark and this will be economical.
Lower limit ? then a lower gear etc.
Each type of vehicle/engine will vary a little, but around these figures will not cause an issue to any components in the vast bulk of cars.

As a general note (not to you Jo) I am happy to really put the hammer down given the opportunity/vehicle/time and place & use to often twist the grip to the limiter kicked in.
The reason I mention this is so some may think I potter around & am happy to do this as I have posted in support of the 110 limit


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## Alcalaina

*It seems to be working ...*



> Those who believed that traffic fines would greatly increase after the government dropped the speed limit from 120 km/h to 110 km/h have so far been proved wrong. Having been made aware of the new speed limit law, motorists apparently decided not to take any chances and lifted their foot from the accelerator after the law took effect on March 7.
> 
> During that first week, speed radars recorded 62 percent fewer velocity violators on Spain's roads compared to the previous week, according to figures obtained by EL PAÍS.
> 
> The number of speeding tickets given on Spanish roads dropped from a weekly average of 5,500 in February to 2,082 during the first seven days after the new speed limit was imposed.
> 
> Critics of the government's introduction of the speed limit law - an effort to save on gasoline bills and conserve energy - had said that the measure was only designed to generate more revenue through the increased number of fines. But even as the measure was being debated and discussed in public forums the week before it took effect, road traffic figures show that Spanish motorists were already slowing down.
> 
> The week before the law went into effect, fines dropped by 31 percent from the period before the announcement.


Fines down - not up - since new speed limit law took effect · ELPAÍS.com in English


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## Pesky Wesky

And according to this you _*will*_ save money by keeping to the new limit and therefore fuel will be saved.
110 kph: savings at top speed. Surinenglish.com


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## gus-lopez

As the article points out the problem with the lower limit is the ability to go uphill in higher gears at lower speeds is lost or compromised. The situation is far worse in a modern automatic which changes down at the slightest hint of the engine labouring.


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## Pesky Wesky

gus-lopez said:


> As the article points out the problem with the lower limit is the ability to go uphill in higher gears at lower speeds is lost or compromised. The situation is far worse in a modern automatic which changes down at the slightest hint of the engine labouring.


Do people really go up hills at 120?
I can tell you, a regular Seat Ibiza does not do hills at 120, so I'm not losing out on my hill driving experience by going slower.


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## baldilocks

I've got a 1.9 Berlingo. Can someone tell me what is 120?


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> I've got a 1.9 Berlingo. Can someone tell me what is 120?


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## rob1340

Alcalaina said:


> Fines down - not up - since new speed limit law took effect · ELPAÍS.com in English


hi there,
travelling regulary along the e15 from Malaga to nerja i have noticed a drop in speed from most drivers.the new camera's in the Torrox tunnel are definately having the desired effect.I read there are more camera's to come wich i think is good especially in the tunnels.

all the best
Rob.


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## jojo

baldilocks said:


> I've got a 1.9 Berlingo. Can someone tell me what is 120?



Bless lol!!! I'm not much better, I've gotta beaten up, old citroen picasso that, on a straight road, with the wind behind it may reach 100??????????

Jo xxx


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## casa99

Having just driven back from spain to u.k. I found that by keeping to the 110 limit on the cruise control I was constantly being tailgated by impatiant young spanish drivers who seem to have to get from a-b in record time . I did use less fuel though.
In france though they still kept the old limit of 130 kmh and diesel prices only a few cents dearer than spain


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## baldilocks

casa99 said:


> Having just driven back from spain to u.k. I found that by keeping to the 110 limit on the cruise control I was constantly being tailgated by impatiant young spanish drivers who seem to have to get from a-b in record time . I did use less fuel though.
> In france though they still kept the old limit of 130 kmh and diesel prices only a few cents dearer than spain


Last time we did the journey (18months ago) diesel in France was quite a bit dearer 10-15 centimos or more dearer, in fact the biggest difference we found was 25c. Irrespective of speed limits and fuel wastage, you will still get the idiots who must be in front of you. That was something we found particularly annoying with French drivers, they just had to be in front of a Spanish registered vehicle and smother our windscreen with the wet and muck off the road.


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## Pesky Wesky

When the 110 limit came in I could do 110 in the outside lane with far less stress from tailgaters, people flashing lights etc.
Now it's back to doing 110 in the inside lane with everyone else sailing past...

Are you finding the same?


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## jimenato

Yes - I drove to Ikea Malaga up the toll road yesterday. I kept forgetting the 110 and driving at over 120. Lots of vehicles passed me doing 140 plus.

Incidentally - that's the last time I ever go to Ikea. They have managed to make shopping a really very dreadful experience. Quite appalling. Awful!


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## baldilocks

jimenato said:


> Yes - I drove to Ikea Malaga up the toll road yesterday. I kept forgetting the 110 and driving at over 120. Lots of vehicles passed me doing 140 plus.
> 
> Incidentally - that's the last time I ever go to Ikea. They have managed to make shopping a really very dreadful experience. Quite appalling. Awful!


We have found that the only way is go knowing precisely what you want and where it is then take all the shortcuts, like going the wrong way round. Often if you go online, you can even get the precise location of the bits you want in the pick up section and just go straight there. Last time we were in and out in 30 minutes with two wardrobes including doors and all the Komplement fittings we wanted - it was great!


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## ivorra

jimenato said:


> Yes - I drove to Ikea Malaga up the toll road yesterday. I kept forgetting the 110 and driving at over 120. Lots of vehicles passed me doing 140 plus.
> 
> Incidentally - that's the last time I ever go to Ikea. They have managed to make shopping a really very dreadful experience. Quite appalling. Awful!



I did the Easter run to/from Costa Brava and was amazed at how disciplined drivers were on the motorway. Most of the trip all three lanes were occupied by cars travelling more or less at 110 kph and keeping safe distances. Possibly the absence of heavy trucks yesterday was a factor in helping things run more smoothly. Or it might have been the time of day - we travelled in the morning. Perhaps the maniacs don't come out until later. You have my sympathy over the IKEA shopping. I think the only way to tackle a trip to IKEA is with military style planning and possibly also by wearing ear defenders inside the store to keep out the intrusively loud musak.


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## Beachcomber

I hate tailgaters. I have one of these on the front and rear of my car:

Roadhawk

and I now report really bad instances of tailgating or other dangerous driving with the evidence to back it up.


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## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> Yes - I drove to Ikea Malaga up the toll road yesterday. I kept forgetting the 110 and driving at over 120. Lots of vehicles passed me doing 140 plus.
> 
> Incidentally - that's the last time I ever go to Ikea. They have managed to make shopping a really very dreadful experience. Quite appalling. Awful!


Try the new one in Jerez, it is relatively civilised especially if you get there just before 10 am.


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## jojo

What ever happened to this idea???? Even Aixums dont adhere to it anymore

Jo xxx


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## Joulesw

*speed limit and driving with lights on*

Its a great idea, as one or two have mentionad do we really go any faster!!! Also is it law yet to keep lights on during the day.

Joulesw


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## Joulesw

*Ikea in Malaga*

I was there last Saturday, 1st and last time. I was so stressed when I go back I JUST has to hit the red wine

Joulesw


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## baldilocks

Joulesw said:


> I was there last Saturday, 1st and last time. I was so stressed when I go back I JUST has to hit the red wine
> 
> Joulesw


The secret is to get there at 9am, go and have a coffee (or two, three...) then start off to the departments you want to visit a.s.a.p. and try to be out within about an hour before all the rest get through. Even better if you know just what you want and where it is, then go in from the cashdesk end to collect it and then hit the cashdesks.


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## Joulesw

*Ikea in Malaga*

Thank you for that, I do know what I want, so will do as you suggest this weekend. Thank you again
Joulesw
***************


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## Alcalaina

The reduced limit is in place until 30 June. They haven't decided yet whether to put it back to 120 - depends on whether the price of petrol comes down again. The reduced limit is estimated to have saved 5% on fuel imports.

El Gobierno no descarta mantener en verano la velocidad máxima en 110 Km/h


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## jojo

I hear that they have in fact agreed that as from tomorrow 1st July, the speed limits are going back to what they were before!!?

Jo xxx


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## leedsutdgem

Only in spain jo x


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## donz

and they can't get the stickers off so are having to put new ones over the top.....


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