# UK Ancestral Visa Marriage to a UK Citizen



## HedgePig (Mar 18, 2013)

Hi all!

I am a South African living in the UK (just completed my second (WET!) winter) and have been here a little over two years.

I recently became engaged to a FABULOUS young lady who is a permanent (born and bred) UK citizen.

I am on a 5 year ancestral visa as my father was a Scot with no restrictions, am a qualified professional (I trade forex) and here is where I am a little lost for information:
My partners family has all shipped off to Cyprus permanently (they are all UK born citizens) and they would like my fiancee and I to join them there.

I am financially independent, can generate an income in any country, also have an EASA (EU) Approved commercial helicopter pilots license (mum said I needed a fall back when I was little) so I can't see any restrictions on my movements in the EU, though I STILL need a visa every time I want to go over there.

In short: What is the quickest/easiest way to get a formal civil partnership here, am I in fact allowed to marry a UK citizen while on an Ancestral Visa and will this allow me to move to Cyprus?

I'm hoping this is going to be an easy answer...anyone? 

HP


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

HedgePig said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I am a South African living in the UK (just completed my second (WET!) winter) and have been here a little over two years.
> 
> ...


There are several issues here.

If your father was a British citizen otherwise than by descent (most probably becase he was born in UK) and he was married to your mother, you are British by descent from birth. So I assume you don't meet one or more conditions for citizenship, and you obtained ancestry visa.

You can marry your British fiancée while you are in UK on ancestry visa.
You can if you like switch to leave to remain as partner (spouse), for which there is financial requirement, but you can just stay on ancestry if you like. You can go for settlement after 5 years in UK. Civil partnership refers to same-sex union only.

If you aren't British and just have SA passport, you need a visa to live in Cyprus. Only British passport, or residence permit issued under certain EU rules, allows you to live there with your partner without visa.


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## HedgePig (Mar 18, 2013)

*UK Ancestry Marriage*

Hi Joppa,
(I had hoped to hear from you!)

My dad was actually born in Canada but his family returned to the UK when he was 1.
I was granted an ancestral visa on the strength of his nationality (he was never registered in Canada and was recognised only as a British Citizen - though some years ago I discovered this may entitle me to a myriad other avenues to Canadian citizenship but I digress)

I recall during my application I had to supply my paternal grandparents birth certificates, my dad's Canadian birth certificate and the process was very straightforward.

I read someplace that I may have to notify an office of our intent to marry if I was on a 'restricted visa' and I cannot find any reference to what this might be though I would hope that my ancestry visa has no restrictions?

Ha ha, I apologise for the confusion, we are of opposing gender. 

So in short, getting married will in no way expedite my current status to a more formal UK one, nor benefit our desired move to Cyprus?

As before, your input is of considerable value.

HP


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## HedgePig (Mar 18, 2013)

Oh and a quick annex: You mention a 'switch to leave to remain' and a 'financial requirement'. Please can you explain what these might mean and what benefit (if any) they may represent?

Thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

From what you tell me, your father was British by descent (born outside UK and his parents weren't British diplomats, serving soldiers etc). The fact that he lived in UK with his parents means you could have applied for registration as British citizen, but only until the age of 18. Now that you are older, you've lost that chance and the only way to become British is through naturalisation, which in your case will take three more years on ancestry visa and applying for settlement (ILR). Then you can apply.

I've mentioned partner (spouse) leave to remain as an option, but in your case there is no real advantage and some serious disadvantages. You can just stay on ancestry visa, and then apply for settlement in 3 years, whereas switching to family route means starting again. Plus there are hefty fees involved (two 30-month leaves), and you must meet financial requirement (income of £18,600 in UK between you). 

If you leave UK after marriage while still on ancestry visa, your time in Cyprus won't count towards your qualifying period for settlement, esp if it's longer than 6 months. So on your return to UK, you may have to extend your leave to remain. For naturalisation, you need 3 years' UK residence with strict limit on absences, which are no more than 270 days in total during the three years and no more than 90 days in the last 12 months.


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## HedgePig (Mar 18, 2013)

Joppa said:


> From what you tell me, your father was British by descent (born outside UK and his parents weren't British diplomats, serving soldiers etc). The fact that he lived in UK with his parents means you could have applied for registration as British citizen, but only until the age of 18. Now that you are older, you've lost that chance and the only way to become British is through naturalisation, which in your case will take three more years on ancestry visa and applying for settlement (ILR). Then you can apply.
> 
> I've mentioned partner (spouse) leave to remain as an option, but in your case there is no real advantage and some serious disadvantages. You can just stay on ancestry visa, and then apply for settlement in 3 years, whereas switching to family route means starting again. Plus there are hefty fees involved (two 30-month leaves), and you must meet financial requirement (income of £18,600 in UK between you).
> 
> If you leave UK after marriage while still on ancestry visa, your time in Cyprus won't count towards your qualifying period for settlement, esp if it's longer than 6 months. So on your return to UK, you may have to extend your leave to remain. For naturalisation, you need 3 years' UK residence with strict limit on absences, which are no more than 270 days in total during the three years and no more than 90 days in the last 12 months.


Ha ha...I'm starting to feel like I may be caught in an administrative grey zone...

So in summary as I have understood it from you:
Getting married will not shorten my term required to naturalise despite already being here 2 years. 
When we do get married, and then elect to move to Cyprus, I effectively forfeit my time spent here already, which effectively (and I'm using a hefty dose of creative license here) will mean I start the process all over under EU rules?

I had hoped that formalising our status whilst already on a 'strong' visa would be well received but I guess the rules are the rules. 

We more than qualify under the income rules and while I have short stumpy arms and deep pockets (dad was a Scot  ) I accept there are fees to be paid for these things. 

I would be very grateful to be able to speak with you directly Joppa am I contravening any rules by leaving a contact email address in my message?

HP


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

HedgePig said:


> Ha ha...I'm starting to feel like I may be caught in an administrative grey zone...
> 
> So in summary as I have understood it from you:
> Getting married will not shorten my term required to naturalise despite already being here 2 years.
> When we do get married, and then elect to move to Cyprus, I effectively forfeit my time spent here already, which effectively (and I'm using a hefty dose of creative license here) will mean I start the process all over under EU rules?


Not quite. While you are unlikely to satisfy your qualifying conditions for settlement at the end of your ancestry visa validity (you must be more or less in continuous work in UK for 5 years, minus holidays and business trips in connection with your UK work), you can extend your leave under UK ancestry and meet the requirement. There is another way, and is called Surinder Singh rule, which says if you and your wife move to Cyprus (another EEA country) and she works there for 3-6 months, you can apply for EEA family permit to enter UK and then switch to residence card valid 5 years. While the clock for settlement is reset and you have to live in UK for 5 more years, it's probably no different from extending your ancestry leave (you can't add up residence during two separate periods under ancestry). Plus there are no fees for applying under EU rules.



> I had hoped that formalising our status whilst already on a 'strong' visa would be well received but I guess the rules are the rules.


Ancestry and family route are entirely separate. Each has its own rules. 



> We more than qualify under the income rules and while I have short stumpy arms and deep pockets (dad was a Scot  ) I accept there are fees to be paid for these things.
> 
> I would be very grateful to be able to speak with you directly Joppa am I contravening any rules by leaving a contact email address in my message?


Please don't publish private information on forum (I will delete it for your protection, it's also against forum rules) and I discourage you from putting it in PM, as I won't use it. Please only use the forum for further questions and discussions, and only PM me for confidential matter which you don't want to put out on a public forum.


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## HedgePig (Mar 18, 2013)

You, Sir, are a legend. 

I'll get Googled around your Surinder Singh rule and chat to the missus. One last question then before bed: Would I be allowed to work in Cyprus as her husband though? Assuming we at some point did choose to return to the UK and exercise the 'S-S' rule you mention, I would want to continue trading in the mean time. 

I'm more than happy to continue to ask my questions in this public forum in keeping with the rules. I hope I did not offend in my enthusiasm for information.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

HedgePig said:


> You, Sir, are a legend.
> 
> I'll get Googled around your Surinder Singh rule and chat to the missus. One last question then before bed: Would I be allowed to work in Cyprus as her husband though? Assuming we at some point did choose to return to the UK and exercise the 'S-S' rule you mention, I would want to continue trading in the mean time.
> 
> I'm more than happy to continue to ask my questions in this public forum in keeping with the rules. I hope I did not offend in my enthusiasm for information.


You should be allowed to work since your wife is an EU citizen exercising her treaty rights in Cyprus, but you may first have to get your residence document.


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## HedgePig (Mar 18, 2013)

Hi Joppa,

We were married in May and are now in the first phase of a move to Cyprus. You have been spot on with the UK status, actually getting married has provided no benefit in terms of time. I was advised to not change my current status by the border agency as I have already completed half the required term and changing to a spousal visa would only reset the 5 year clock.

My wife and I accept that I will effectively be forfeiting the time spent when we move but such is. 

I was wondering if you could answer these questions:
I am the income earner and my wife has no employment arranged in Cyprus, though its likely at some point that something will be found to do, though not initially. I have heard conflicting info that in order to qualify me she must have employment arranged? Also that we must have a signed rental contract? Any comments?

Thanks in advance. 

HP


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

For you to obtain EEA family permit under Surinder Singh, your wife as EEA national MUST be working or self-employed in Cyprus. Your job doesn't count at all. Signed rental contract isn't a requirement, but clearly you need to be living somewhere. It can be a property provided by a relative, for example. You should also get residence permit.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You should probably try the Cyprus forum.


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