# Defined Benefit Plans & FBAR



## Guest

I know I should know this...but with so much information flying around I am starting to dis-believe myself.

Are company defined benefit plans (Canadian) supposed to be listed on the FBAR?


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## Lovecheese

Mach7 said:


> I know I should know this...but with so much information flying around I am starting to dis-believe myself.
> 
> Are company defined benefit plans (Canadian) supposed to be listed on the FBAR?


Yes, i had H&R Block do mine and she said they had to be reported. I do not agree with that but, it seems to be the way


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## Guest

I don't think they do....anyway,there would be no way of knowing the aggragate value of my pension.


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## Peg

I know of a teacher who was checking into that point as their pension would be worth a lot. It really adds to the irony that US citizens living outside of the US can be penalized for -gasp- working in another country and getting a pension!

I check my mail every day just hoping for my "Thanks, we're done with your file." from the IRS --- yes, I know I won't get it but at least not a "You are the lucky winner of an IRS audit!".


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## Peg

Mach7 said:


> I don't think they do....anyway,there would be no way of knowing the aggragate value of my pension.


The pension plan administrator could provide you with a current value or you might have statements with that information...


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## Guest

i.	US Reporting. FBARs are required for all personal pensions; employer controlled defined benefit plans do not require reporting. It appears that foreign retirement schemes are exempt from Form 3520 foreign trust reporting but that exemption is tied to IRC Sec. 402(b) plans which are nonqualified employment related retirement plans and not personal pensions schemes which have become the dominant form of retirement plan in recent years. As stated above, these plans are covered by FBAR reporting and at present it does not appear likely that the IRS would impose Form 3520 penalties for failure to report on that form

I would say from this that I don't have to report it since it is an employer controlled pension.


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## Guest

Ok folks...answered my own question by asking my own Accountant....(hopfully no charge).

Hi xxxxx,

The FBAR is only used to report accounts with FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS which you have signing authority over. A DBP is a pension plan and you have no signing authority over it. A Defined Contribution Plan is an RSP which you do have signing authority over.

I hope this answers your question.


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## Bevdeforges

The other issue with a company defined benefit plan is that is may not, in theory, have a cash value. Unless it's the sort of plan where you can take out a lump sum should you change employers, or even at retirement, the current cash value is currently 0. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Guest

My plan cannot be transferred. I can take early retirement, but the yearly payout would be quite a lot less.


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## Vangrrl

Mach7 said:


> i.	US Reporting. FBARs are required for all personal pensions; employer controlled defined benefit plans do not require reporting. It appears that foreign retirement schemes are exempt from Form 3520 foreign trust reporting but that exemption is tied to IRC Sec. 402(b) plans which are nonqualified employment related retirement plans and not personal pensions schemes which have become the dominant form of retirement plan in recent years. As stated above, these plans are covered by FBAR reporting and at present it does not appear likely that the IRS would impose Form 3520 penalties for failure to report on that form
> 
> I would say from this that I don't have to report it since it is an employer controlled pension.


I followed your interpretation and did not report my pension plan. 

The other question will be whether our pensions funds will be subject to FATCA, in which case, even our Canadian employers would have to determine whether or not employees in the pension plan is American.


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## Guest

From what is starting to happen all over the world...that is the push back of FATCA...I am starting to doubt it will stand a chance of implementation.

If only a few countries participate in FATCA, it sort of defeats the purpose, as those who wish to hide there money will do so in non-FATCA countries.


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## Peg

Mach7 said:


> From what is starting to happen all over the world...that is the push back of FATCA...I am starting to doubt it will stand a chance of implementation.
> 
> If only a few countries participate in FATCA, it sort of defeats the purpose, as those who wish to hide there money will do so in non-FATCA countries.


I hope that is the case and so wish that Canada would ignore it as well but likely the toughest for Canada to fight it....


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## Guest

From what I am reading in updates from FATCA....and how European countries are approaching FATCA....I always thought that we (Canadians/US citizens) would at least have the 'option' of not signing the waiver of privacy.

I am starting to think that if the implementation costs are as high as what they are saying....we second class Canadians will be asked to leave these financial institutions to avoid compliance.

In other words we might be left without a bank account...without a bank account you have no where to place your earned income...without earned income you don't have a job.


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