# Remotely working in Spain for a company in the UK



## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm planning to relocate my family to Spain next year.

My company requires everyone to be in the office in London every other week for 3 days. So I think I can manage to fly to the UK for those days. 

I would like to hear if somebody is doing this. I'm not interested in arguments about how this will be very difficult because of work permits, double taxation, and legal issues. I have researched and taken care of these things.

I'm interested to hear if somebody is actually doing this. I guess being away from my family will be nicely compensated by the much better lifestyle that they'll get in Spain...


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## Tanya Harron (7 mo ago)

That's what I'm intending to do this summer too.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Skywalker11 said:


> I'm planning to relocate my family to Spain next year.
> 
> My company requires everyone to be in the office in London every other week for 3 days. So I think I can manage to fly to the UK for those days.
> 
> ...


Rather a bolshy way to expect a pleasant response.......

Steve


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## Tanya Harron (7 mo ago)

Is that directed to me?
I was just saying that is what I hope to do aswell. It certainly was not meant to come across is any bad way.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Tanya Harron said:


> Is that directed to me?
> I was just saying that is what I hope to do aswell. It certainly was not meant to come across is any bad way.


How can it have been directed at you when I quoted the original poster......

Steve


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## Tanya Harron (7 mo ago)

Oh sorry Steve


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I doubt there are many who commute to uk on this forum. Of course its possible but it will take a bit longer that pre-Brexit days and no doubt prices will be higher not to mention environmental responsibilities.


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## JonSpain (7 mo ago)

I moved out to Spain in 2017 with the exact same plan. Thought it would be easy and I only had to fly back every 6 weeks. Never happened, then covid struck and I was over 2 years before getting back to the office.
So make sure you have a friendly boss and a good webcam and you'll be alright

Speaking as someone in the same boat, flying back every other week seems somewhat un-realistic to me. Maybe in the winter when flights are cheap, but it will sting in the summer when you must fly and few seats are available. I probably went back 9-10 times one year..... got very tiring with the agg of the airports and all that. 
The bit affecting me now is the cost of car hire in the uk, 300-400 for a long weekend from a quality supplier at the moment for london airports


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I doubt there are many who commute to uk on this forum. Of course its possible but it will take a bit longer that pre-Brexit days and no doubt prices will be higher not to mention environmental responsibilities.


There used to be quite a few, several years ago, & I also personally knew people who did it, but eventually they gave up. 

One couple I know split up  

Anyone coming now with a British passport won't be able to do it of course, unless they get a Golden Visa.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I have mentioned before that my wife was close to doing this but we found it impossible to do legally. I acknowledge that the OP doesn't want to discuss legalities but if I'm honest I'm quite glad it didn't work out, it seemed to be a recipe for stress.

That said, if we could find a way to make it work, a UK salary in Spain would be quite nice!


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## JonSpain (7 mo ago)

Overandout said:


> I have mentioned before that my wife was close to doing this but we found it impossible to do legally. I acknowledge that the OP doesn't want to discuss legalities but if I'm honest I'm quite glad it didn't work out, it seemed to be a recipe for stress.
> 
> That said, if we could find a way to make it work, a UK salary in Spain would be quite nice!


I havent had an issue with any legalities. I file my uk payslips with my spanish accountant, pay my taxes in spain all above board. And hmrc in the uk were helpful and gave me a zero rated tax code for my paye, I also continue to pay my national insurance in case i move back one day


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

JonSpain said:


> I havent had an issue with any legalities. I file my uk payslips with my spanish accountant, pay my taxes in spain all above board. And hmrc in the uk were helpful and gave me a zero rated tax code for my paye, I also continue to pay my national insurance in case i move back one day


I think you are doing it as well as you possibly can to protect yourself legally, this is exactly what I (or rather my wife) would do.
However the Spanish tax man has been known to go after foreign companies with employees tax resident in Spain claiming that they have created a Permanent Establishment in Spain and therefore are liable for corporate taxes. It's an arduous process to prove them wrong, so many companies simply avoid the risk by refusing this solution to their employees.

What really put us off as potential employees though was that, as far as we could find out, there is no way to make voluntary contribution to the Spanish SS when you are a tax resident, so all medical and pension cover in Spain have to be privately arranged.

Have you found a better way around that?


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## JonSpain (7 mo ago)

Overandout said:


> I think you are doing it as well as you possibly can to protect yourself legally, this is exactly what I (or rather my wife) would do.
> However the Spanish tax man has been known to go after foreign companies with employees tax resident in Spain claiming that they have created a Permanent Establishment in Spain and therefore are liable for corporate taxes. It's an arduous process to prove them wrong, so many companies simply avoid the risk by refusing this solution to their employees.
> 
> What really put us off as potential employees though was that, as far as we could find out, there is no way to make voluntary contribution to the Spanish SS when you are a tax resident, so all medical and pension cover in Spain have to be privately arranged.
> ...


Nope, sadly I will not get any benefits or medical cover here. I pay private health and do a private pension.

I did hear some horror stories about what you mention, my company were very happy for me to become self employed and I could register as autonomo here. But my accountant assured me I will be fine, no reason to doubt as they handle a ton of brits and a few in my situation that were 'flying under the radar' so to speak until brexit and then had to go legit.
It's been a good few years and had no issues, apart from getting bored with the travel back and forth meaning the gaps between visits getting larger


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

JonSpain said:


> Nope, sadly I will not get any benefits or medical cover here. I pay private health and do a private pension.
> 
> I did hear some horror stories about what you mention, my company were very happy for me to become self employed and I could register as autonomo here. But my accountant assured me I will be fine, no reason to doubt as they handle a ton of brits and a few in my situation that were 'flying under the radar' so to speak until brexit and then had to go legit.
> It's been a good few years and had no issues, apart from getting bored with the travel back and forth meaning the gaps between visits getting larger


Thanks a lot for that, it's nice to finally hear from someone who has made it work. I hope it helps to OP also!

Sorry for getting into the legalities!


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I acknowledge that the OP doesn't want to discuss legalities but if I'm honest I'm quite glad it didn't work out, it seemed to be a recipe for stress.


The reason I didn't want to go into the legal stuff, was just to avoid all those negative comments from disenchanted & envious Brits (see one above). I'm personally not affected by this Brexit c.rap as I have an EU passport + permanent right to stay& work in the UK. 

I wanted to hear mostly how this would affect my lifestyle. But from what I hear from other people, it's doable as long as I don't have to go to the UK very often. 

It's such a big difference in lifestyles between the UK and Spain. I live in one of the most affluent parts of the UK (Maidenhead), so I have a good point of comparison I guess. Here, for £350,000 all I can buy is a 2 bedroom damp shoebox with no more than 80sqm. For the same money, I can buy a nice house in Estepona with over 150sqm!

And I don't even want to start on the miserable weather, the crappy and hugely overpriced public transportation, the crowds everywhere...

Yes, the UK is not the best country to live in. And if I have to chance to earn my money here, and spend it in Spain, yes I will do it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Skywalker11 said:


> The reason I didn't want to go into the legal stuff, was just to avoid all those negative comments from disenchanted & envious Brits (see one above)...


I see no negative comments nor envious or disenchanted Brits. 


Those of us on this forum who have lived here long term have nothing to be envious about, including the member you quoted.

That said, life in Spain isn't a bed of roses for those of us who work. 

Weather can be dreadful, working conditions dreadful, crowds dreadful - just like anywhere else. 

Basically it's same sh+t different shovel. 

That said, after nearly 19 years here, I wouldn't live anywhere else. However my rose tinted specs broke a looong time ago.


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> I see no negative comments nor envious or disenchanted Brits.


Well, my friend, I'm of a different opinion. Maybe it's the fact that I currently live in the UK and hear more often what they say? Anyway, as I said Brexit doesn't affect me in any way. But I can't imagine that they don't feel s.crewed when all of a sudden they have to go in a different queue where they wait 3 hours, while I can whizz by. Or the fact that I don't need any visas to live and work in Spain...Anyway, their choice. 

Regarding the tinted specs, it will be interesting to explain why around 100,000 Spanish people moved to the UK, while over 300,000 Brits went to live in Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Skywalker11 said:


> Well, my friend, I'm of a different opinion. Maybe it's the fact that I currently live in the UK and hear more often what they say? Anyway, as I said Brexit doesn't affect me in any way. But I can't imagine that they don't feel s.crewed when all of a sudden they have to go in a different queue where they wait 3 hours, while I can whizz by. Or the fact that I don't need any visas to live and work in Spain...Anyway, their choice.
> 
> Regarding the tinted specs, it will be interesting to explain why around 100,000 Spanish people moved to the UK, while over 300,000 Brits went to live in Spain.


You're definitely one of the lucky ones with an EU passport, so it's easy for you to move to Spain. 

Remember, those of us who already lived here before Brexit don't need a visa to live & work here either. It's business as usual for us, so we have nothing to be jealous about.

My daughter, British citizen but with permanent residency in Spain having grown up here, is currently living & working in London. Her Spanish friends who traditionally moved to the UK for a year or so for experience no longer can. 

She loves her job, & there are certainly a lot more work opportunities there, but she has no intention of making it a permanent move. She'll return to Spain in a few years with the experience she gains there, that she would have little chance of gaining in Spain.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Just to be clear, the legalities of the Permanent Establishment, taxation and social security contributions have not changed since Brexit and are applicable to anyone employed in the UK and tax resident of Spain regardless of their nationality.

As to being labelled a disenchanted and envious Brit... well, maybe you've got a point! Nearly 20 years on a Spanish salary takes it toll you know!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think the OP clearly has advantages being an EU member but they are asking if anyone is or has done every second week communting. One thing I think that is important is that people who do this constantly are business travellers and the whole thing is organised and paid for by the company. It is a completely different experience to travelling on a tourist flight. I had a friend who worked between Paris and Edinburgh but he flew on major airlines and had everything arranged for him. He didn't have to do anything except turn up at the airport where he had access to business lounge etc. Is the OP meaning this type of travel or flying on a cheap tourist flight doing everything themselves. Surely that is going to be pretty miserable- waiting in airport terminals, buying expensive coffees, drinks, plastic chairs, squashed into small seats next to sandwich chomping sun-seekers, delays umfffff. Okay maybe a few times a year but every other week? That is going to become pretty tough, no?


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

From 1999 to 2007 and again from 2013 until I took early retirement from work. I was flying (or driving) most weeks from the Uk to EU countries and further afield for work.
And as kaipa has said, having all the journeys arranged by the company made the whole thing bearable, for a while anyway. 

Due to helping instal a complete factory in Helmond in 2006, I was tasked with briging the whole thing online (video and DVD packaging) and would fly from T4 Heathrow to Eindhoven on Monday and return late Thursday to then do my normal job in the factory in Wembley on Fridays... 

First couple of months were great, but then winter came around and occasionally flights were cancelled or delayed, my company car got damaged at Heathrow and the pool car in Holland broke down a couple of times. I didn't stay in a hotel but we booked a flat for six months.
I changed my routine towards the end of the project as the wife was complaining I was not spending any time with her or the kids. 

It was this that led me to leave the job.

Fast forward to 2014 and Im doing a similar thing but driving from the Uk on Monday and touring various Eu countries servicing pallet wrappers, returning on Friday (or not depending on the work rota).
This I enjoyed and as we had moved to the south coast in 2015 it meant working in France would mean *I could be home fairly quickly if anything went wrong..*

The bit in bold is the kicker, being able to get home quickly if you are needed. And at some point you may be....

The other thing that I hadn't realised was the lack of effort I made to go out for trips or even holidays once at home, it was like I had overdosed on the travelling when working and all I wanted to do was stay at home.

The OP is right when he says that with an EU country passport and being able to stay and work in the Uk poses no issues with visa's (and nor do they to any of us who were here before Brexit) and as long as the journeys are planned then why not give it a go. 

Its not for everyone, if I was single and young it would have been a lot better (and I know a couple of people who have made a good life doing this as they are single), but you have to think about others as well. 

Whats to loose if it don't work, thats what you have to consider, exit plan....


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> I think the OP clearly has advantages being an EU member but they are asking if anyone is or has done every second week communting. One thing I think that is important is that people who do this constantly are business travellers and the whole thing is organised and paid for by the company. It is a completely different experience to travelling on a tourist flight. I had a friend who worked between Paris and Edinburgh but he flew on major airlines and had everything arranged for him. He didn't have to do anything except turn up at the airport where he had access to business lounge etc. Is the OP meaning this type of travel or flying on a cheap tourist flight doing everything themselves. Surely that is going to be pretty miserable- waiting in airport terminals, buying expensive coffees, drinks, plastic chairs, squashed into small seats next to sandwich chomping sun-seekers, delays umfffff. Okay maybe a few times a year but every other week? That is going to become pretty tough, no?


I'm sure many companies do get away with it, but if the employer, as a foreign firm, makes any contribution to the employee's cost of travel to or from Spain or residence here, that can be a trigger for the P.E. This is one of the first things they will look at when trying to catch liable companies.

In order to maintain a purely domestic employer / employee contractual relationship they should not pay any travel or contribute to any logistics or organisation, nor organise or pay for any rent or any part of the living cost in Spain.

So if the OP's firm is doing it in the most risk aversive way they shouldn't be organising his travel nor paying for it.

Obviously it doesn't create any additional liability for the employee, but it is worth being aware.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Overandout said:


> I'm sure many companies do get away with it, but if the employer, as a foreign firm, makes any contribution to the employee's cost of travel to or from Spain or residence here, that can be a trigger for the P.E. This is one of the first things they will look at when trying to catch liable companies.
> 
> In order to maintain a purely domestic employer / employee contractual relationship they should not pay any travel or contribute to any logistics or organisation, nor organise or pay for any rent or any part of the living cost in Spain.
> 
> ...



Doesn't that amount to saying you are sailing close to the wind by entering the arrangement proposed by the OP? He talks about moving to Spain but still working for his company, but that implies he is an employee. Shouldn't he be a client and the company a customer?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Doesn't that amount to saying you are sailing close to the wind by entering the arrangement proposed by the OP? He talks about moving to Spain but still working for his company, but that implies he is an employee. Shouldn't he be a client and the company a customer?


I'm not sure what you mean by that. The risk for the OP is only the indirect risk of his company misjudging the corporate tax liabilities in Spain. It is not illegal to be an employee of a UK company while being tax resident in Spain.


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## Localizer (Jun 23, 2016)

We worked this way for a couple of years- in fact 4 ..... serviced several clients by working from home on the Costa del Sol, with a few days every other week in the UK on client sites. At our stage of life and for the type of work we performed it worked well; we frequently worked from the (covered) terrace, enjoyed the hour's head start on our clients because of the time difference and as long as you are a morning person you can be anywhere in the south of the UK before lunchtime - we had no clients outside of London & the south, so I can't comment on other parts. I've even done day trips to the UK when there was a significant event which required physical presence. we always reduced our travel during the July & August holiday period. We were members of frequent flyer & car hirer schemes, only had flight compatible luggage, an annual pass to airport parking, a tag for the tolls on the AP7, corporate airport lounge access, security fast track passes where available and dual SIM phones ... anything to make the travel a little more easy.
However, the world has changed since CoVid - we used to use planes like buses and whereas I once worked on a €15 Norwegian flight to Gatwick using their free internet access for a couple of hours and was in the office well before lunch, this is not now reliably replicable at any cost..... a quick trip has become expensive, stressful and tiring. 
So, yes, I've done it, and yes you can still do it - would I choose to do it now; no.


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## JonSpain (7 mo ago)

.


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

Barriej said:


> Its not for everyone, if I was single and young it would have been a lot better (and I know a couple of people who have made a good life doing this as they are single), but you have to think about others as well.
> 
> Whats to loose if it don't work, thats what you have to consider, exit plan....


Well, I'm the opposite- a father who is almost 45 and with 2 small boys. So not single and not exactly very young anymore... 

But I'm doing this for the family. What's the alternative here in the UK? To live my whole life in a damp shoebox? Where I'm (the Maidenhead area) I can't hope to get a decent house for under £600,000. And even that would be probably a tiny, semi-detached, sharing it with questionable neighbors...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Well as people have said it is doable , if not a bit gruelling and if your company are aware of the things that need to be done, there is nothing stopping you. However, as they say as one door opens another shuts. You will be absent from your family for effectively a week every month. What happens in an emergency? How will your wife feel about your absence? What happens if you lose your job?- Your family are settled in spain and you have to find another UK company that will employ you whilst you live in spain, not easy!!. Schools for kids? English speaking schools are fee paying and by 2026 your children will no longer count as home students if they return for further education.In other words the UK might feel like an awful place to be but Spain will throw just as many problems back at you it's just you cant see them at the moment. Anyway some posters have gone through the experience and pointed out the advantages and disadvantages and that is what you wanted to hear so all the best.


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Well as people have said it is doable , if not a bit gruelling and if your company are aware of the things that need to be done, there is nothing stopping you.


There is the possibility that they would require me to be in the office one day each week. Meaning that I could leave on Sunday night and be back home on Monday night. So not so bad I guess?

Regarding the schools, what do you mean that by 2026 my children won't count as home students? I'm also aware that if I move to Spain, I would need to start paying around EUR 1500 each month for both kids in a private English-speaking school. But that's money I can spend, instead of paying a £600,000 mortgage for a miserable house in Britain.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Skywalker11 said:


> Regarding the schools, what do you mean that by 2026 my children won't count as home students? I'm also aware that if I move to Spain, I would need to start paying around EUR 1500 each month for both kids in a private English-speaking school. But that's money I can spend, instead of paying a £600,000 mortgage for a miserable house in Britain.


It's about studying at a UK university from 2026 onward. At the moment, your children are regarded as home student for tuition fees and pay around £9,250 per year. But from 2026, because of Brexit, they will have to pay overseas student tuition fee which is set by individual uni, but averages around £20,000 to £23,000/year for non-laboratory subject, £25,000 to £27,000/year for lab-based subject and £44,000/year for clinical subject such as medicine. These figures are for 2022-23 at Birmingham University.


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

Joppa said:


> It's about studying at a UK university from 2026 onward. At the moment, your children are regarded as home student for tuition fees and pay around £9,250 per year. But from 2026, because of Brexit, they will have to pay overseas student tuition fee which is set by individual uni, but averages around £20,000 to £23,000/year for non-laboratory subject, £25,000 to £27,000/year for lab-based subject and £44,000/year for clinical subject such as medicine. These figures are for 2022-23 at Birmingham University.


Well, both of them have British passports...Will they have to really pay more?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Joppa said:


> It's about studying at a UK university from 2026 onward. At the moment, your children are regarded as home student for tuition fees and pay around £9,250 per year. But from 2026, because of Brexit, they will have to pay overseas student tuition fee which is set by individual uni, but averages around £20,000 to £23,000/year for non-laboratory subject, £25,000 to £27,000/year for lab-based subject and £44,000/year for clinical subject such as medicine. These figures are for 2022-23 at Birmingham University.


Yes that is what I meant. It's one of these hidden things like the driving licence , the detailed stuff that got left out of the big lie!!. It is something that many new uk families need to know if they leave the uk with kids. We assume that as our kids have uk passports and we pay or paid taxes for decades that the children will be treated as any other uk student, unfortunately that will soon not be the case and therefore unless you are prepared to pay around £70,000 for a basic degree ( plus 4 years living expenses) leaving the uk could seriously deprive your children of some educational opportunities. The most obvious example is bilingual schools. Prior to brexit many would offer the British curriculum ( GCSE and Alevels) as Spanish students could go to UK universities at the same status as uk students( so free for Scottish universities) but the schools are phasing them out and offering only the international Bachillerato. This means kids entering both state and private schools over the age of 10 will struggle ( learning Spanish quick enough) to be fluent at 16 to commence the Bachillerato ( reading and writing at a native level). In other words if your children are over 10 when you move to spain unless you are going to be able to fork out at least £ 70,000 your children will probably struggle to enter higher education and given the state of the spanish labour market wjen it comes to young people that could be a huge problem. So please be aware!!!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Skywalker11 said:


> Well, both of them have British passports...Will they have to really pay more?


Yes, I have two British kids who live in Spain with me, the older one will be able to get into a UK Uni at "home" rate, but the younger one will miss out (or cost us five times as much!)


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Skywalker11 said:


> Well, both of them have British passports...Will they have to really pay more?


Yes, the passport will only allow them to live and work but not the home status needed for the uk fees. That will become the oveseas rate. To qualify they would need to live and work there 3 years with no education purposes. Its a real issue!!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Our plan is to send both to a Spanish University, then use the money to allow each one a Masters or Postgrad in the UK as a foreign student. Its a shame they will get only one year instead of 3 but such is life.

I wouldn't let the education issue stop me from moving my family, but each to their own, and as Kaipa says it s a real issue.


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Yes, the passport will only allow them to live and work but not the home status needed for the uk fees. That will become the oveseas rate. To qualify they would need to live and work there 3 years with no education purposes. Its a real issue!!


How many years do they have to be living abroad so they will lose the home status? I have paid enough taxes in this country, so I'm intending to have the same privileges as the ones living here...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Skywalker11 said:


> How many years do they have to be living abroad so they will lose the home status? I have paid enough taxes in this country, so I'm intending to have the same privileges as the ones living here...


It isn't how long they have to be living abroad.


The agreement is simply that as of 2026, British citizens won't be entitled to home status for uni if they don't already live in the UK. For three years before uni I think. 

Unfortunately we don't get to choose which privileges we keep when we leave the country.


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## Skywalker11 (Aug 22, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> It isn't how long they have to be living abroad.
> 
> 
> The agreement is simply that as of 2026, British citizens won't be entitled to home status for uni if they don't already live in the UK. For three years before uni I think.
> ...


Thanks. Do you have a link for that rule?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I knew something didn't add up with my kids' ages! Its 2028, not 2026.

More info including official links, in this thread:









UK University Fees after Brexit


Just got this update.. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-europe?utm_source=175aa843-a07d-4ae3-bef0-416578bd8c56&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate Studying in the UK You will continue to be eligible for home fee status (the fee rate that students who...




www.expatforum.com


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Skywalker11 said:


> Thanks. Do you have a link for that rule?


Apologies. It seems that I had the wrong year.
Whereas UK nationals living in the EU are currently treated as home students, for courses starting after 1 Jan 2028, they will no longer have that right & be treated as any other nationality not living in the UK (page 6 of the link), and have to be resident in the UK for three years before they start the course in order to be treated as home students.

Otherwise, 'foreign student' fees apply. 



https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009789/EU_Exit_Student_Finance_Policy_-_Aug_21.pdf


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes my bad. It was 2026 but they changed last feb to 2028. So basically you need to get kids through school in 5 more years! If they are younger than 13 it becomes a problem. They are also other caveats. The children must have lived in uk 3 years before moving to EU country and must have been in EU country for 3 years before returning.

As others say it has nothing to do with tax contributions or nationality. Its residency based. But what is going to be important is that uk families who move to spain will be effectively wasting money in going to English private schools unless they can afford international student fees which will be very big by 2028!. Also it means that if your child was, for example 11 or 12 your only real choice would be a state school but the chances of acquiring a high enough level of reading and writing in Spainish to successful complete bacherlerato would be slim and with the abolition of repeating years now finished almost impossible. So I think people need to really think about things when they say they are moving to Spain to have a better family life- you might be severely reducing your children's chances in life. I imagine that in 10 years time kids with poor education qualifications will find that there are few unskilled jobs available. I was in a chinese restaurant on Friday. Packed but 2 waitresses and 3 robots!!!. And now today with the rail strikes you can see the wave coming- driverless trains are going to be introduced so no need for a £ 60 000 drivers who threaten strikes or who want work Sundays !!! That's the future- your kids need to be educated and skilled to a high level to survive.!!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

You paint a pretty bleak picture Kaipa. At this rate the OP will want to go back to talking about legalities!

But why are families who send their kids to international schools wasting thier money? We don't even know the ages of the OPs kids. They might only need primary education in English, after a few years they should be fluent in Spanish anyway, unless they are locked in a English ghetto, which doesn't seem likely given that the OP isn't even British. 
I know many succesful professionals who studied at Spanish universities, some of them are even not Spanish!

Even if they do need their entire education to be completed in English, why does not going to a English University ruin their career? There are university courses in Spanish universities that are taught 100% in English already, and there will be more soon for sure.
Maybe the OP's kids have access to the education system in the OP's home country (the flag is Norway but the text says Germany?)

The OP is very lucky to have found an employer who will allow employees to be tax resident in another country and I think it's worth taking advantage of that, as I said before, its a dream situation for some of us. Literally the best of both worlds!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

As a father of a 16 year old who arrived in Spain when he was 10 I'm only giving my experience of this and of course not everyone's will be the same. However, I do think its important to point out that there are myths out there that still drive many people's beliefs vis a vis bringing kids to Spain
My real beef concerns language. There is a lazy but persistent belief that many have that children will acquire Spanish easily and quickly with an embedded assumption it's done passively and is general for all kids. Well, my son had zero Spanish when he started at Spanish primary. His mother is bilingual. After 2 years his spanish although better was in no way comparable to a 12 year spanish speaker. By ESO 3 he had developed sufficiently to partake independently in the classroom and do his own homework and exam preparation although his written essays would be noticeably poorer language wise than his peers.So that amounted to 5 years of total submersion in the language. Now he has finished ESO 4 with 9 and 10 notas in approx 10 subjects. Despite this his Spanish will not be sufficient enough to allow him to complete the Bachillerato to the level commensurate with his actual abilities. ( Valenciano is one subject that was impossible for him to achieve C1 level meaning he is exempt but immediately reduces his over all Bachelerato mark!!) . The upshot is that it is considerably harder for him to do as well in Bachi than the British A levels ( As English is his primary language). So my point is, if you prioritize your childs educational needs then you try and do everything you can to give them the opportunities to reach their potential. I'm now going to let him transfer to a bilingual private school to do A levels which means he will have easier access to uk universities. Now of course as Overandout rightly points out it all depends on your values and some people will feel that life skills trump formal education which is fine but I'm just trying to point out the reality for UK children and education in Spain.

Can I also add that whilst there maybe some university courses in English in Spain , Spanish language is a prerequisite of all university admissions at undergraduate level and although some no longer require selectividad for entry Alevels alone are not sufficient for Spanish universities. Also in order to go to UK universities you submit your application in your final school year with previsto on grades. Spain do their applications after selectividad and this means that anyone from Spain normally needs to wait a year before they can make their uk application as formal Bacchi previstos dont exist.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

From about 1995 to 2010, I and my colleagues were in the super commuters' club. We did everything: 4 hours daily drive, 5 hour daily train journeys, staying away Sunday-Thursday nights within the UK, and some also had partners resident abroad with children. Naturally we discussed our experiences, some of which remain stuck in my memory.

1. All public transport is unreliable. Trains break down or get cancelled at short notice. Airlines change their flight days and times at the drop of a hat. You need to plan a backup departure and arrival point. There will be times when you cannot travel as you wish, where will you stay and at what cost? Be aware nobody who has a normal commute will have any sympathy for you when you have a major problem.

2. Social life: goes out the window except on Saturdays. Travelling Sunday p.m. ruins the morning as well.

3. Domestic crises: always occur when you are at the furthest point from home and cause your partner twice the problem they would have if you were around. How would your partner have support with the children?

4. Personal relationships suffer. There's a reason why the military wives live on a base: they support each other through the worst of times. Alone in a foreign country the partner can stress more easily. There were a high number of break-ups among my colleagues.

5. Children who have been used to a stable life until the move do not adjust to their new life as well as the parents would like. Some go off the rails entirely, whilst others dream of returning if only to see their friends. Very few families have an entirely happy time. They can also resent their parents for having interrupted their education path.

6. Health: even those who love travelling find the constant exposure to dirt and germs weakens their health. I'd have loved to wear a mask on many of my journeys as far too many people with flu etc insisted they had to turn up at work when WFH was more appropriate.

Overall given the current state of the UK, I think I'd now change Maidenhead to Maidstone, or some other cheaper area, and only contemplate moving abroad once the children were away at uni.


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