# Personal opinion of forum direction



## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

I could make a comment on a number of different threads but I felt it better to make a general comment. It is just a general observation and it is worth nothing at all because it is simply my observation and my opinion and if you think it stinks I respect that. 


I have observed that in a number of threads there seems to be a tendency to argue over words, definitions, percentages, polls, crime, politics (USA and Mexico), whatever. It seems that many are taking an adversarial position. 


I have been following this forum for years as many of you have. What has happened lately? A number of the threads seem to have gone from informative to debates. Are we now a debating forum? Are we arguing over words, definitions, politics, statistics, etc. It seems that we go on and on for pages and pages with people trying to get the last word in and win the debate!! :confused2:


If that is the way the majority prefer it to be so be it. I have to respect that because I for one realize that my opinion is simply that. But it seems that a number of people are feeling that everything they say is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and heaven help those that disagree.


Is someone putting something in the water that everyone is drinking? Is it because of elections in Mexico and the USA? Is everyone so caught up in ideologies that they feel they have to take a stance on everything?


I think that I should head for my underground bunker until things calm down. Am I saying that people can't disagree. Not at all. But my perception, which you might feel is worth less than nothing, is that the comradery of this forum is going downhill. I look to it for information – not for arguments.


Go ahead – throw stones at me. Maybe that will take your attention away from each other.

For all you old timers that have not joined the fray -- bless you!


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

As someone in the middle of a fray I could not agree more. Last year I posted that if this safe place turns into a political forum, a trivial debating club I shall leave it, reading it occasionally and miss it very greatly. I reiterate that.

This is an Expat Forum, and for us it is about Mexico, to exchange ideas, to listen, to add and to help each other. It is NOT in my opinion a place to debate veracity of experience, nitpick grammar and usage, construct political arguments not germane to Mexico and the process of being an expat.

If I have been guilty of any of that, mea culpa, and I shall cease it. I want this this to be a place of respect, of some sort of rules of order and a place where gentle people gather in the hope of fulfilling the ideal of helping each other. Egos, including mine, need to be parked at the door for the benefit of all.

I will try and do better, let's hope everyone else does also.

Thank you D for the reminder.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

I see myself posting less and less lately, it seems most informative threads get hijacked into a 2,3 or 4 way debate and gets boring... and other posters post like they are on facebook, LOL.......


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

I am happy some feel the same way about the forum.

FHBOY: Thanks for the backup and your way of expressing yourself. I am not as eloquent in my expressions but I do feel the same way about this forum.

Chicois8: That is the way I am beginning to feel. Hope that others agree with us but if not that is their priviledge.

I agree to not debate over words.


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## Quetza (May 27, 2012)

My experience entering here was very pleasant, but I think Detailman is right. Just from reading the latest threads, I thought this was a debate-inclined forum, but now that I realize that's not the case I'll try my best to refrain from entering or starting arguments (and from feeding the ocassional troll, of course)

I'm glad that Detailman posted such a constructive criticism. I'm still a newbie but I want the best for this forum too


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

So what is the answer? We could make some more people moderators so they can delete or close threads. Perhaps ban more people? Remember, you don't have to read every thread or respondent.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> So what is the answer? We could make some more people moderators so they can delete or close threads. Perhaps ban more people? Remember, you don't have to read every thread or respondent.


Nor do you have to respond to each and every post. I'm guilty of picking words every so often but I feel that using the wrong definition for a word is dangerous such as the recent "first hand" that was posted. It can completely change the direction of the post. 

As many of you have seen, I don't post often. I look at the thread that interests me and if someone has already posted thoughts similar to mine. I just let it go. No need to do what we used to say in football "pile-on".

My suggestion is to pick and choose your posts and be sure that what you say is not only to the point but shows your thoughts. This is a question/answer and share ideas site. Let's all (me included) keep to that direction.


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## La Osita (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank you Detailman for your thoughts. Maybe a suggestion and an added thought... many here have become " forum friends" and as those things go, conversations become more personal, with banter, debate, etc. coming into play as we have all gotten to 'know' each other better. 

In a number of cases, I have moved my 'conversations' to personal messages and/or continue to have conversations via my personal email address where I have felt that it was inappropriate or simply unnecessary to post here on the forum.

These forums are much like living beings... they grow, change and evolve with the people who feed them. Overall, I feel that this forum is a very healthy place and I agree that a reminder to keep things positive, informative and helpful is good for us all.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

If anyone posts unpleasant or offensive posts, please "report them by clicking on the exclamation mark on the top right of every post. Then the mods can be made aware of any problems or issues. 

The forum is an information forum, with debates and exchanges of information and of course "chats". There maybe some "thread drift", which IMO also gives a feel for life in whatever country and enables posters to "make friends", but all in all the idea is that the forum is kept free from silly arguments and squabbles

Jo xxx


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

pappabee said:


> Nor do you have to respond to each and every post. I'm guilty of picking words every so often but I feel that using the wrong definition for a word is dangerous such as the recent "first hand" that was posted. It can completely change the direction of the post.
> 
> As many of you have seen, I don't post often. I look at the thread that interests me and if someone has already posted thoughts similar to mine. I just let it go. No need to do what we used to say in football "pile-on".
> 
> My suggestion is to pick and choose your posts and be sure that what you say is not only to the point but shows your thoughts. This is a question/answer and share ideas site. Let's all (me included) keep to that direction.


I agree, Pappabee, and I'm going to try to do better. And thanks to you too, Detailman, for putting this back into perspective.

WashDC/SMA


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Once upon a time, I used to delete postings or threads when they became argumentative, combative, insulting, etc. Some evidently thought I was too strict. Even moderators don't always get along with each other and some, from other areas, will even 'cross boundaries'. That is OK by forum rules, but can make it hard for posters to determine 'limits'. So, I still check this forum daily, but do find it, and others, less and less friendly; perhaps a result of declining civility in the USA, which occupies current news programs. The current state of the economy, as well as politics in both countries, are probably contributing factors to the changing moods of posters, as well as the obvious trend to allow political 'discussion' on the forum. I like the latter, but only if it is very civil and always polite. Well, almost always. No longer being a moderator makes for a more relaxing day, and I can come and go as I please.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

pappabee said:


> Nor do you have to respond to each and every post. I'm guilty of picking words every so often but I feel that using the wrong definition for a word is dangerous such as the recent "first hand" that was posted. It can completely change the direction of the post.
> 
> As many of you have seen, I don't post often. I look at the thread that interests me and if someone has already posted thoughts similar to mine. I just let it go. No need to do what we used to say in football "pile-on".
> 
> My suggestion is to pick and choose your posts and be sure that what you say is not only to the point but shows your thoughts. This is a question/answer and share ideas site. Let's all (me included) keep to that direction.


Pappabee,

I totally agree with what you say and I do not find you argumentative at all and what you said in previous posts about "first hand" versus second hand or heresay was totally correct and needed to be said. Having the right definition is necessary.

Let me explain a little further what I am noticing about "some" of the threads and the trend that is happening. Someone posts a fairly good comment. It may be lengthy. A reasonable person looking at that post would say: "I agree with those thoughts. Good post." That is what I would expect. If someone disagrees it should be on the theme of the post or the statistics or an observation that does not hold true in Mexico. I think you know what I mean.

It appears some members (and it would not appear to be those that have been around for a long time) that are prone to ignore the main thrust of the thread, not read between the lines to get the intent of the post, but instead pick on a word or two or a phrase or some non-critical comment and use that to springboard onto their pet peeves, firmly held opinions or take the thread on a 90 degree turn where it becomes an opportunity for them to expound their firmly held opinions and argue with others. That is completely different from simply correcting a definition or word meaning or custom or observation that is pertinent to the overall comment. One is normal conversation. The other is not really listening or being interested in what the other party is saying but instead looking for those few words whereby they can now either change the subject to what they want to talk about or start into their dialogues on their pet peeves. It’s like we start talking about the best tamales and end up talking about crime in the city square where the best tamales are served and we never get back to tamales.

That is what I do not enjoy. We can disagree with someone and still be trying to achieve common ground or a general consensus or we can be drawing lines in the sand, choosing sides and fight to the death. Both types of people exist in this world. The latter type I will walk away from and it is not because I can't carry on an argument or am afraid of a fight. It is simply a waste of time if the person is so single minded.

Remember one of my favourite sayings: "A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still."

When I get back from my run I will comment on the next post which raises another interesting point of my observations.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

itnavell said:


> Thank you Detailman for your thoughts. Maybe a suggestion and an added thought... many here have become " forum friends" and as those things go, conversations become more personal, with banter, debate, etc. coming into play as we have all gotten to 'know' each other better.
> 
> In a number of cases, I have moved my 'conversations' to personal messages and/or continue to have conversations via my personal email address where I have felt that it was inappropriate or simply unnecessary to post here on the forum.
> 
> These forums are much like living beings... they grow, change and evolve with the people who feed them. Overall, I feel that this forum is a very healthy place and I agree that a reminder to keep things positive, informative and helpful is good for us all.


Itnavell,

Again, I totally agree with what you say. The part I want to comment on is in your first paragraph - which I agree with.

The banter and disagreement among "forum friends" is educational, friendly and in good spirit. There is no animosity if RVGringo disagrees with something I say or I disagree with something FHBOY says. Unless I felt that RVGringo was totally wrong in his comment (MIGHT happen one day) I would either reply and say "thanks for the clarification or correction" or at least mentally acknowledge that he was right and I am now better off with that additional clarification or correction. That is a normal part of conversation with friends. If all our friends were expected to agree with everything we said I don't think we would have many friends. Give and take.

The negative trend that I have noticed is not between "forum friends" as a general rule. It appears to come from "some" new posters (which we should be happy to welcome) who join the forum and within days they come out with all guns blazing taking exception to comments on many threads and always trying to get that last word in. They argue for the sake of arguing.

"It's a nice day today!!" 

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? ARE YOU THE FINAL ARBITER OF WHAT CONSTITUTES A NICE DAY? DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD FIND TODAY COLD? (OR TOO HOT.) I TELL YOU THAT I HAVE LIVED WHERE IT WAS 190 DEGREES AND I, I, I, I, ......

I would simply say: "kids, if you want to play in the sandbox, please play nicely." (Remember, read bewteen the lines as to the overall content -- not the specific words. I don't have time for a legal treatise.)


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## La Osita (Oct 31, 2010)

Detailman said:


> Itnavell,
> 
> Again, I totally agree with what you say. The part I want to comment on is in your first paragraph - which I agree with.
> 
> ...


Exactly. (lol) The sincere friendships, laughs and banter are one of the reasons I keep coming back here. 

And for what it's worth, there's a man here in El Sauz who sells tamales on his rolling cart that are FABULOUS. It's my Saturday morning treat!

Have a really nice day!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Detailman said:


> Itnavell,
> 
> Again, I totally agree with what you say. The part I want to comment on is in your first paragraph - which I agree with.
> 
> ...


ah but _those _sort of posters don't usually hang around long, for one reason or another 

as jojo said earlier - if someone is being unnecessarily aggressive or argumentative, just hit the







& the mods will be alerted.......... none of us can read every post on every thread ..............


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> ah but _those _sort of posters don't usually hang around long, for one reason or another
> 
> as jojo said earlier - if someone is being unnecessarily aggressive or argumentative, just hit the
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comment. I didn't know what that icon represented (Bring out the hammer!) Now I do. Would only use it in extreme situations but nice to know if someone is really insulting in their delivery. Have a nice day.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Detailman said:


> Thanks for your comment. I didn't know what that icon represented (Bring out the hammer!) Now I do. Would only use it in extreme situations but nice to know if someone is really insulting in their delivery. Have a nice day.


it's rare that it's needed to be fair - it's useful too though for reporting spammers or advertisers


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> it's rare that it's needed to be fair - it's useful too though for reporting spammers or advertisers


Understood!


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

You know, I had written a whole exposition on this topic, re-read it and deleted it before posting it because it tried to put into words something we all seem to know about relationships. I've got nothing more to add to what has been said - old timers get to know each other, and can read between the lines and know where the jabs are and what is permitted. New folks still need to learn it.

OK - I have to elaborate: In the film TRUE LIES (JLC was soooo hot!) there is a scene in which Charlton Heston, Arnold, Tom Arnold and a youngster are being debriefed. Obviously the first three have been working together a long time. The youngster chimes in with a comment which is flip, but none the less true. Heston's character says (not verbatim) "what makes you think I will give you the latitude I give them." Point there is until mutual respect is established, be careful as to the use of your words.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

fhboy said:


> you know, i had written a whole exposition on this topic, re-read it and deleted it before posting it because it tried to put into words something we all seem to know about relationships. I've got nothing more to add to what has been said - old timers get to know each other, and can read between the lines and know where the jabs are and what is permitted. New folks still need to learn it.
> 
> Ok - i have to elaborate: In the film true lies (jlc was soooo hot!) there is a scene in which charlton heston, arnold, tom arnold and a youngster are being debriefed. Obviously the first three have been working together a long time. The youngster chimes in with a comment which is flip, but none the less true. Heston's character says (not verbatim) "what makes you think i will give you the latitude i give them." point there is until mutual respect is established, be careful as to the use of your words.


amen!


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

Detailman said:


> Remember one of my favourite sayings: "A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still."


Also it is possible to disagree without becoming disagreeable. I find the tendency to become disagreeable is what makes the difference here.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

kcowan said:


> Also it is possible to disagree without becoming disagreeable. I find the tendency to become disagreeable is what makes the difference here.


That is very true!!


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

As uncomfortable as it is, I feel like I need to admit to my part in the debating.

It's an old, bad habit of mine: I've always been the self-appointed defender of the underdog, and will (as one poster mentioned) come out, guns blazing, when a comment is made that is dismissive of others, or groups of others. And then my well honed ability to argue anything and everything, honed by intense Catholic school discussions about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, rears its ugly head.

Thank you, Detailman, for the reminder.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Perhaps there is one among you who would like to help out and be a moderator.
Who is brave enough to take on the challenge?


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

siobhanwf said:


> Perhaps there is one among you who would like to help out and be a moderator.
> Who is brave enough to take on the challenge?


OK - tell me what's involved and then I'll consider taking a shot at it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FHBOY said:


> OK - tell me what's involved and then I'll consider taking a shot at it.


we just make sure everyone follows the rules - the rules are the same throughout the entire forum, which is why you will sometimes see some of us from other countries moderating elsewhere

obviously some local knowledge is an advantage though


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> we just make sure everyone follows the rules - the rules are the same throughout the entire forum, which is why you will sometimes see some of us from other countries moderating elsewhere
> 
> obviously some local knowledge is an advantage though


I am not yet a Mexican resident so my local knowledge is merely cursory. 

Q: Are there a set # of hours/day that is expected from a Moderator, and/or a set period of time each day that (s)he is supposed to be online? Does being a Moderator limit participation in discussions, either explicitly or by implication that a Moderator is somehow a "higher power" which may discourage participation?

*To my fellow posters here*, I also have a question - based on our discussion history, do you feel that I am qualified to do the job as a Moderator? I am not looking for pats on the back, I need objective input.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FHBOY said:


> I am not yet a Mexican resident so my local knowledge is merely cursory.
> 
> Q: Are there a set # of hours/day that is expected from a Moderator, and/or a set period of time each day that (s)he is supposed to be online? Does being a Moderator limit participation in discussions, either explicitly or by implication that a Moderator is somehow a "higher power" which may discourage participation?
> 
> *To my fellow posters here*, I also have a question - based on our discussion history, do you feel that I am qualified to do the job as a Moderator? I am not looking for pats on the back, I need objective input.


Well it would be up to the site owner & Tundragreen, rather than other posters

there are no set hours, you go online whenever you can - although if we're going to be away or offline for any length of time we do let the other mods know

you can participate in discussions (see my sig )

obviously you just have to follow the same rules as everyone else, & not play favourites


oh - & you do it for love.......... we don't get paid 

if your're genuinely interested send a PM to ExpatForum or use the CONTACT link at the top of the page


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

FHBOY said:


> I am not yet a Mexican resident so my local knowledge is merely cursory.
> 
> Q: Are there a set # of hours/day that is expected from a Moderator, and/or a set period of time each day that (s)he is supposed to be online? Does being a Moderator limit participation in discussions, either explicitly or by implication that a Moderator is somehow a "higher power" which may discourage participation?
> 
> *To my fellow posters here*, I also have a question - based on our discussion history, do you feel that I am qualified to do the job as a Moderator? I am not looking for pats on the back, I need objective input.


If this forum is like the one where I was a Mod, it's expected that you check out what's going on a couple times a day, at least. But if you are going to be gone, or simply unavailable, well, you're not getting paid. You don't get fired for slacking. You might for going nuts on the members, though. 

I haven't been here long enough to know about the limiting of participation. That is a difference between here and the other forum. There, you were yourself AND you were Mod ABCD. Signing in as you was no different. Signing in as mod gave permissions that members didn't have.

As for your qualifications, to my mind you are the perfect candidate.

You are intelligent, but not arrogant about it, have a good grasp of language, are relatively even-tempered (at least in the forum, and that's all that matters here) and have a good sense of humor.

All of the above go a long way when dealing with the occasional outburst. It's the dealing with it that prevents them from turning into full out flame wars.


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## ptrichmondmike (Aug 26, 2010)

mickisue1 said:


> As uncomfortable as it is, I feel like I need to admit to my part in the debating.
> 
> It's an old, bad habit of mine: I've always been the self-appointed defender of the underdog, and will (as one poster mentioned) come out, guns blazing, when a comment is made that is dismissive of others, or groups of others. And then my well honed ability to argue anything and everything, honed by intense Catholic school discussions about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, rears its ugly head.
> 
> Thank you, Detailman, for the reminder.


Yeah, I guess I'm in that category too. I really want to leave all the filth of partisan politics behind when I leave the US, but sometimes I'll read a comment which pushes my historical truth and social justice buttons and sets me off. Better just to inform the moderators of my displeasure...


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

ptrichmondmike said:


> Yeah, I guess I'm in that category too. I really want to leave all the filth of partisan politics behind when I leave the US, but sometimes I'll read a comment which pushes my historical truth and social justice buttons and sets me off. Better just to inform the moderators of my displeasure...


That's one of the best things about this kind of site. YOU have the option of deciding if you want to jump in and get wet or stay dry and let someone know of your displeasure. There are many times when I sit back and say 'well there's an ignorant person' or 'boy I wish I'd have said that'. But all in all it's better just to watch the fun. 

If someone is really posting incorrect information then I feel it's my duty to try to correct them. Or at least correct the posting.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

pappabee said:


> That's one of the best things about this kind of site. YOU have the option of deciding if you want to jump in and get wet or stay dry and let someone know of your displeasure. There are many times when I sit back and say 'well there's an ignorant person' or 'boy I wish I'd have said that'. But all in all it's better just to watch the fun.
> 
> If someone is really posting incorrect information then I feel it's my duty to try to correct them. Or at least correct the posting.


I agree with you, but I believe it has to be done objectively. If one jumps in swinging, there is an excellent chance that "snarkiness" (a recent buzz word) will set in. Also, remember the old adage about arguing publicly with a fool.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Ken Wood said:


> I agree with you, but I believe it has to be done objectively. If one jumps in swinging, there is an excellent chance that "snarkiness" (a recent buzz word) will set in. Also, remember the old adage about arguing publicly with a fool.


I'm not familiar with that particular old adage, Ken. Could you quote it here? It might keep me from jumping in with a snarky comment the next time I read a post that makes my blood boil. Thanks.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> Well it would be up to the site owner & Tundragreen, rather than other posters


Note: I pulled the above out of a longer quote by Xabiachica.

If I may offer up a dollop of blather, I believe that public praise, as well as a gentle critique, has a place on the forum. Since I joined the forum, rather recently, my experience with moderators has been largely limited to TG, with an occasional assist, such as the one above. Tundra Green, in my opinion, is the epitome of a good moderator. He is obviously a thinker, has led a diversified life and has been "in country" long enough to be sufficiently fluent and also to understand some of the cultural nuances (I consider this an asset in helping one determine if a remark is appropriate or inflammatory). Also, I haven't seen an episode of him being heavy with the editing hammer, he let's us make fools of ourselves as long as we don't drag others down with us. 

At the risk of swelling his already apparently enormous ego  I hope he will pursue someone who exhibits, at least some of, his traits. I agree that variety improves everything, and different background, political views, lifestyle choices, entertainment, etc, would all be welcome, but the basic package, in my opinion, should look a lot like TG.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I'm not familiar with that particular old adage, Ken. Could you quote it here? It might keep me from jumping in with a snarky comment the next time I read a post that makes my blood boil. Thanks.


+1

I'd love to hear it, too.

Since snark is my entire family's native tongue (taught by their mom. Um, me), it would be good to have an additional weapon in the Keep My Big Mouth Shut armory.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

Ken Wood said:


> I agree with you, but I believe it has to be done objectively. If one jumps in swinging, there is an excellent chance that "snarkiness" (a recent buzz word) will set in. Also, remember the old adage about arguing publicly with a fool.


Try the old song "Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread". AND the Einstein quote that an expert is "one who knows more and more about less and less"

OR the one we old farts know from years ago "x=an unknown quantity and spurt is a drip under pressure".

Enough adages for one post???????????????:clap2:


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I'm not familiar with that particular old adage, Ken. Could you quote it here? It might keep me from jumping in with a snarky comment the next time I read a post that makes my blood boil. Thanks.


Actually, there are many. Two that come mind are:

"Never argue with a fool, they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

The other, I'll have to paraphrase. "Never argue publicly with a fool; onlookers might not know who is who."


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Ken Wood said:


> Actually, there are many. Two that come mind are:
> 
> "Never argue with a fool, they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."
> 
> The other, I'll have to paraphrase. "Never argue publicly with a fool; onlookers might not know who is who."


Gracias .


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> Well it would be up to the site owner & Tundragreen, rather than other posters
> 
> if your're genuinely interested send a PM to ExpatForum or use the CONTACT link at the top of the page


I realize that, naturally, but what I was looking for was a sense of whether over the course of this relationship the people who know me would consider me fair. If I do not have their confidence, then I'd probably prefer to sit on the sidelines, and I seem to "know" them better, including TG, than I know the owner.


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> I realize that, naturally, but what I was looking for was a sense of whether over the course of this relationship the people who know me would consider me fair. If I do not have their confidence, then I'd probably prefer to sit on the sidelines, and I seem to "know" them better, including TG, than I know the owner.


I think you're fair. As a moderator you would have to make decisions. When you did, some people would be happy, others not happy. Deciding not to intervene would also garner support from some, or erode your credibility as a moderator among others, even the timing (not soon enough, or should have waited a while longer).

I like your posts as a participant, like your good-nature and your enthusiasm about the journey you are undertaking.

That's all I've got.

WashDC/SMA


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

FHBOY said:


> I realize that, naturally, but what I was looking for was a sense of whether over the course of this relationship the people who know me would consider me fair. If I do not have their confidence, then I'd probably prefer to sit on the sidelines, and I seem to "know" them better, including TG, than I know the owner.




Why not give it a try and see if it is for you. You don`t have to sign a contract . 
If you participate on the forum you are there anyway so really there is very little extra time involved. 
A clear head, no taking sides, being fair and just not letting things get personal or out of hand is what the commitment is all about.
The Forum is so wide spread it is impossible for "the boss" to keep an eye throughout that is where we come in. Have a chat with "the boss" as Xabia suggested and then decide. (He doesn`t bite )


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

siobhanwf said:


> Why not give it a try and see if it is for you. You don`t have to sign a contract .
> If you participate on the forum you are there anyway so really there is very little extra time involved.
> A clear head, no taking sides, being fair and just not letting things get personal or out of hand is what the commitment is all about.
> The Forum is so wide spread it is impossible for "the boss" to keep an eye throughout that is where we come in. Have a chat with "the boss" as Xabia suggested and then decide. (He doesn`t bite )


OK - what's the next step - I'll take a try at it.


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## CheeseWiz (Jun 14, 2012)

It is interesting to me that when the subject is crime in our adopted homes the conversation many times becomes antagonisitic. I am wondering if it taps into fear regarding our decision to live here and from sometimes feeling a need to defend that decision to others who question our choice.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

CheeseWiz said:


> It is interesting to me that when the subject is crime in our adopted homes the conversation many times becomes antagonisitic. I am wondering if it taps into fear regarding our decision to live here and from sometimes feeling a need to defend that decision to others who question our choice.


A valid theory. Perhaps we who have and those like who are going to, have during our lifetime defended ourselves form "Are you crazy, you're moving to Mexico?" so many times that we tend to get a bit defensive. It is an irrational reaction, of course. We may not want to admit it, but CheeseWiz has added a point of discussion.

Q: In our life how many times have we been put in positions to "defend" our choices? "Why did you buy a Honda?" "Are you kidding about that hairstyle?" "What made you buy that outfit?" We need to protect, even the most confident and strongest of us, our ego, and if CheeseWiz is right, part of that defense can be manifested in denial. Just a bit of "off-the-cuff" psychology for an early Thursday morning.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> A valid theory. Perhaps we who have and those like who are going to, have during our lifetime defended ourselves form "Are you crazy, you're moving to Mexico?" so many times that we tend to get a bit defensive. It is an irrational reaction, of course. We may not want to admit it, but CheeseWiz has added a point of discussion.
> 
> Q: In our life how many times have we been put in positions to "defend" our choices? "Why did you buy a Honda?" "Are you kidding about that hairstyle?" "What made you buy that outfit?" We need to protect, even the most confident and strongest of us, our ego, and if CheeseWiz is right, part of that defense can be manifested in denial. Just a bit of "off-the-cuff" psychology for an early Thursday morning.


Cheese does bring up a valid point. Its a natural reaction to defend yourself physically or verbally. Some choose to be passive, some choose to be passive-agressive, and some aggressive. I feel that as people get older they migrate to either of the extremes with hints of passive-aggressiveness dotted throughout.

If I had a peso for every time I am asked "Why did you move to Mexico, aren't you scared?", I would be able to afford a condo in Cabo year round. I really don't give them a full answer (because that would be a waste of breathe since most that ask me already have a predetermined position on the matter), however I give them the short answer and that is -"Because I wanted to and I prefer to move on with my life and experience new things. I'll be able to say in 50 years that I did that and lived through it and I am a richer person for it.".

When people ask me "How's Mexico?", they are expecting me to answer with gory details and murderous stories of head chopping and western style shootouts in the plaza. I surprise them by just saying "Its hot. Friggin 39 degrees the other day. Dry and dusty too. Other than that the meat and vegetables are fresh, beer is cold, and we went to (insert interesting destination here) the other day and it was awesome. The kids had a blast!". If they want to discuss the danger, then I am willing, but its not the first thing that comes up in my response. Why should it be?

Its all in how you approach the questions. I know Mexico is a little dangerous right now, however I see that a lot of bubble pats and the like have defended themselves and other people enough that is all sounds like a broken record. If I were to switch places with the Chapala crowd, I am sure we would all be singing a different tune.

I'll admit that seeing Crime in Mexico posting here is getting old, but you don't have to read them or even comment. Its easy to say "well just don't read it", but they are like car accidents.....its too hard not to look. Look, just don't comment.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

CheeseWiz said:


> It is interesting to me that when the subject is crime in our adopted homes the conversation many times becomes antagonisitic. I am wondering if it taps into fear regarding our decision to live here and from sometimes feeling a need to defend that decision to others who question our choice.


Sometimes this perceived antagonism is the result of misleading information being posted about the place we now call home.


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Sometimes this perceived antagonism is the result of misleading information being posted about the place we now call home.


MANY times! Not here but elswhere. I can't count the number of times I have seen totally ignorant posters saying they would never go to Mexico.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

kcowan said:


> MANY times! Not here but elswhere. I can't count the number of times I have seen totally ignorant posters saying they would never go to Mexico.


Sounds like my Father. He claims he will not come to Mexico to visit me until I move to Mexico City...then he will think about it. My plan is working!!!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kcowan said:


> MANY times! Not here but elswhere. I can't count the number of times I have seen totally ignorant posters saying they would never go to Mexico.


They're probably people who've never had a passport and have no interest in leaving the land of their birth. What bothers me more is people living in Mexico who spend their posting the latest horror stories online and nothing else, as though this was all there was to say about Mexico.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

FHBOY said:


> OK - what's the next step - I'll take a try at it.


Hi FHBoY


You can contact our illustrious leader by PM from here


Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad - View Profile: ExpatForum


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> They're probably people who've never had a passport and have no interest in leaving the land of their birth. What bothers me more is people living in Mexico who spend their posting the latest horror stories online and nothing else, as though this was all there was to say about Mexico.


All of you old timers do realize that this is the internet, right? Why do you get upset at what people say on the internet?

Lots of comments today. I have an excuse. I am sitting in front of my computer working (reminder to turn off email notifications).

Why don't the rest of you go outside and enjoy your beautiful crime free Mexico?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

conorkilleen said:


> All of you old timers do realize that this is the internet, right? Why do you get upset at what people say on the internet?
> 
> Lots of comments today. I have an excuse. I am sitting in front of my computer working (reminder to turn off email notifications).
> 
> Why don't the rest of you go outside and enjoy your beautiful crime free Mexico?


Aw, come on, Conor, sometimes getting hot under the collar is part of the fun, done in a civilized manner, of course.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> Aw, come on, Conor, sometimes getting hot under the collar is part of the fun, done in a civilized manner, of course.


Is there any other way?

Sadly, yes.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

If you go to sleep at night thinking about what someone said on the internet that didn't set well with you, then throw your computer out the window.

This is the internet. For all I know (other than Isla), you all could be 30 something year old losers living out of your parents basement in Iowa stuffing your faces with Cheetos and drinking Mountain Dew trolling the internet in between online games of World of Warcraft. I'm pretty sure most of you are legit, however the way you argue and instigate internet battles leads me to believe that you are not far from the basement...if you know what I mean.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

I posted this on another thread but I think it also properly belongs here.

Many of the comments have been about differing opinions and viewpoints. (Not only on this thread but other threads as well.)

Here is my further comment for what it is worth:

*"One of the things I sometimes bring up in face to face discussions (especially point of view discussions) with others is there is always a flip side to the coin. If someone tells you there is only one side to the coin that person is either a liar or a cheat!







Something for us all to keep in mind. "*


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

conorkilleen said:


> If you go to sleep at night thinking about what someone said on the internet that didn't set well with you, then throw your computer out the window.
> 
> This is the internet. For all I know (other than Isla), you all could be 30 something year old losers living out of your parents basement in Iowa stuffing your faces with Cheetos and drinking Mountain Dew trolling the internet in between online games of World of Warcraft. I'm pretty sure most of you are legit, however the way you argue and instigate internet battles leads me to believe that you are not far from the basement...if you know what I mean.


Watch your mouth, Young Man! 

Mountain Dew is VILE, and it's been, let's see...42 years since I lived with my parents...I moved out at 19 and scraped my own way through college AND nursing school.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but many of the so called battles here seem to me to be good natured jousting.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

mickisue1 said:


> I can't speak for anyone else here, but many of the so called battles here seem to me to be good natured jousting.


I hope its good natured or at the end of the day we are all going to be very, what we young folk call, "butthurt".

I like to mix it up with the best of them of course, I am young and like to think I have some wit left. All of my ill natured wit went away after my first child.

I am probably the youngest full time poster on this forum and at times it shows. I can push peoples buttons without even trying. I guess thats a generational thing?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Nah. 

You learn, hopefully (some never do) what it is that DOES push the buttons, and then you make one of two choices.

You stop pushing them, because the peace is more pleasant, or you keep pushing them for the heck of it.

You'll know the ones who never learn. They also tend to be the ones who never apologize for saying something thoughtless.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

polynomial said:


> If you think that "pushing someone's buttons" is something to be proud of, then you're in the wrong forum. 4chan is more suitable for your needs.


I don't think that's what he meant. It sounded more like--REALLY? That bothered you?

Not pride. Bafflement.


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## Belizegirl (Oct 21, 2010)

Personally, I love the banter among people posting on this forum, when it is all in fun. However, it is true that, there is no need to bring personal resenment on to a thread or just be a trouble maker, leerking and waiting for an argument.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Belizegirl said:


> Personally, I love the banter among people posting on this forum, when it is all in fun. However, it is true that, there is no need to bring personal resenment on to a thread or just be a trouble maker, *leerking *and waiting for an argument.


*Leerking*, wow, what a great new word!


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## Belizegirl (Oct 21, 2010)

Got to love auto correct!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Belizegirl said:


> Got to love auto correct!


Never use it myself.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Belizegirl said:


> Got to love auto correct!


Dang, you mean this is not true?

LEERK: verb. To hang around internet fora, wearing a sleazy grin, waiting for someone to post a comment you can bash into the virtual ground.

EX: "That guy who's always leerking around here just made the most inflammatory comment."


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

So: Lurk + Leer = leerk? Not in any standard dictionary that I've seen.
Sounds like 'texting language' for pre-pubescents.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> So: Lurk + Leer = leerk? Not in any standard dictionary that I've seen.
> Sounds like 'texting language' for pre-pubescents.


It could be...but I have a nearly 29 year old who delights in combining words to join the meanings.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> So: Lurk + Leer = leerk? Not in any standard dictionary that I've seen.
> Sounds like 'texting language' for pre-pubescents.


Curmudgeon! (but not wrong)


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

mickisue1 said:


> It could be...but I have a nearly 29 year old who delights in combining words to join the meanings.


 ...and you an English teacher - for shame!


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> ...and you an English teacher - for shame!


Did I miss something in an earlier post? I thought Mickisue1 was a nurse, among other things. She could probably teach us all a few things but is she also an English teacher? (And I don't mean teaching her children.) :confused2:

If I am wrong please bring me up to date.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

Detailman said:


> Did I miss something in an earlier post? I thought Mickisue1 was a nurse, among other things. She could probably teach us all a few things but is she also an English teacher? (And I don't mean teaching her children.) :confused2:
> 
> If I am wrong please bring me up to date.


She mentioned a few posts back about nursing school. I assume that she is a nurse and probably a damn good one at that.

Isla Verde is the english teacher. I literally have to watch my P's and Q's when I am around her.

Oh...Isla...by the way...I will be in DF this week if you want to grab some dinner again. Wednesday works better.

Back to topic...whatever that was.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Conor,
I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't remember. However, I admit that I've given up trying.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

I remember something about computers...thats the extent.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

conorkilleen said:


> She mentioned a few posts back about nursing school. I assume that she is a nurse and probably a damn good one at that.
> 
> Isla Verde is the english teacher. I literally have to watch my P's and Q's when I am around her.
> 
> ...


That was my understanding and I made a comment on a post that I thought she would have been an excellent nurse due to her compassion, etc.

Come on Mickisue, clarify for us whether you are also an English teacher. (Arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin does not qualify -- except for pinheads!)


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

conorkilleen said:


> She mentioned a few posts back about nursing school. I assume that she is a nurse and probably a damn good one at that.
> 
> Isla Verde is the english teacher. I literally have to watch my P's and Q's when I am around her.
> 
> ...


I'm only an English teacher at heart...from years of sitting around the dinner table with my parents.

I AM a nurse, have a degree in philosophy (which got me a GREAT job as a waitress!) and my current title is wellness coach, in my self-employed capacity.

Confused yet, anyone?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

mickisue1 said:


> I'm only an English teacher at heart...from years of sitting around the dinner table with my parents.
> 
> I AM a nurse, have a degree in philosophy (which got me a GREAT job as a waitress!) and my current title is wellness coach, in my self-employed capacity.
> 
> Confused yet, anyone?


What an interesting background you have. Could you explain what a wellness coach does for her clients? Right now I'm seeing a doctor in Mexico who specializes more in maintaining wellness than in curing sickness, though, of course, the two are intimately connected. A lot of what he has prescribed for me involves changing deeply-ingrained bad habits, like eating food that does more harm than good. Boy is that proving to be difficult!


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## MJB5293 (Feb 26, 2009)

Detailman said:


> I could make a comment on a number of different threads but I felt it better to make a general comment. It is just a general observation and it is worth nothing at all because it is simply my observation and my opinion and if you think it stinks I respect that.
> 
> 
> I have observed that in a number of threads there seems to be a tendency to argue over words, definitions, percentages, polls, crime, politics (USA and Mexico), whatever. It seems that many are taking an adversarial position.
> ...


well said


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

This thread started while I was away and until MJB's post quoting Detailman, I was not aware of how it started. Just now I read through the entire thread for the first time. There are many very interesting comments made. The discussion made me think a little about the forces that drive forums from friendly to hostile or in other directions. It also makes me think a little bit about how much control we moderators have over this direction.

My philosophy in moderating the Mexico section is to enforce the rules. They are posted in a link that can be found at the top of every page. There are quite a few and you can read them for yourself, but the one most relevant to setting the tone of the forum is a prohibition on attacking other posters. Often it is very clear when one of us, or a newcomer steps over this line, but not always. When conversations turn from discussions to arguments, people occasionally submit comments that border on attacks and it is sometimes difficult to decide when to step in.

There are no rules that say a thread has to stay on topic. There are no rules that disallow picking out minor points in a post and going off on tangents, or endlessly debating abstruse side issues. Some people find these tendencies frustrating. However, I don't think that moderators should be controlling in those cases. I have stepped in and separated a thread into two parts when it is clear it has gone in a different direction and there is still interest in the original direction. But I really try to avoid editing or deleting posts based on my opinion of whether they are constructive or valuable.

At the end of the day, I think it is all of the contributors, us, who set the tone for the forum. I find this forum to generally be a very civilized place. I know that is not the case for all forums and I really appreciate the civility I find here.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Welcome back, TundraGreen. The forum has deteriorated into boredom and argumentation in your absence. We've missed you.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

One further comment...

There is one thing that I can do as moderator that might be helpful. In the future, I will try to be more pro-active in splitting threads that diverge from the original topic. I can move the off-topic posts to a new thread with an appropriate name. This might make it easier to follow discussions, easier to find posts, and maybe reduce the frustration of people who find digressions disturbing. There are four posts on antique computers in a recent Mexican security thread that are clearly candidates for movement. (And, I have to confess, that I contributed one of them.)


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome back, TundraGreen. The forum has deteriorated into boredom and argumentation in your absence. We've missed you.


Thanks RV.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome back, TundraGreen. The forum has deteriorated into boredom and argumentation in your absence. We've missed you.


 RV - I am so bored with the argumentative opinion expressed by you!


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> RV - I am so bored with the argumentative opinion expressed by you!


You're nuts and I wonder how many will forget the smile at the end of your post and assume that you were serious. :eyebrows:


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

pappabee said:


> You're nuts and I wonder how many will forget the smile at the end of your post and assume that you were serious. :eyebrows:


So...we have deteriorated to name calling? 

Anyone who knows me here knows when I am serious or just jesting, especially with my buddy The Curmudgeon - I hope!

(and for those who don't know - I hereby apologize)


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

See what I mean?


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> See what I mean?


Absolutely - let's hope is is just a passing phase. But, RV, I think the repartee between Pappabee and I was just a gay repartee amongst friends.

 Ooops - now I've opened the way for argumentation on the word "gay" - just great.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> So...we have deteriorated to name calling?
> 
> Anyone who knows me here knows when I am serious or just jesting, especially with my buddy The Curmudgeon - I hope!
> 
> (and for those who don't know - I hereby apologize)


I do hope everyone understands that I was kidding about your being nuts. How can you be nuts and still want to move to Ajijic??


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

pappabee said:


> I do hope everyone understands that I was kidding about your being nuts. How can you be nuts and still want to move to Ajijic??


Your levity unfortunately points to a problem. I would say that up until recently we could tell where levity and good natured jesting was being expressed. Am I wrong to notice that some skins, not necessarily those of the direct participants, have gotten very thin? I suppose that the maturity I spoke about - long-term participation - gives an insight into our personalities, such as we wish to expose them. I can tell when RV, Pappa, TG, Mickie, Isla, D and a few more are jesting. Maybe it just more time for some others to catch up with the jokes.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> Your levity unfortunately points to a problem. I would say that up until recently we could tell where levity and good natured jesting was being expressed. Am I wrong to notice that some skins, not necessarily those of the direct participants, have gotten very thin? I suppose that the maturity I spoke about - long-term participation - gives an insight into our personalities, such as we wish to expose them. I can tell when RV, Pappa, TG, Mickie, Isla, D and a few more are jesting. Maybe it just more time for some others to catch up with the jokes.


You know, I was just thinking the same thing. I can imagine that someone would look at my saying you're nuts and take exception and start an entire conversation about it. You know I'm kidding and I hope that RV, TG, and the rest of the regulars know that but what about a newbee? I guess maybe it's just a sign of the world that we live in. It's a real shame when people take individual words without considering not only the context but the attitude of the person writing it. I only Hope that the "thin-skins" (oops, there I go putting titles on people) take it easy on the rest of us.:focus:


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

pappabee said:


> You know, I was just thinking the same thing. I can imagine that someone would look at my saying you're nuts and take exception and start an entire conversation about it. You know I'm kidding and I hope that RV, TG, and the rest of the regulars know that but what about a newbee? I guess maybe it's just a sign of the world that we live in. It's a real shame when people take individual words without considering not only the context but the attitude of the person writing it. I only Hope that the "thin-skins" (oops, there I go putting titles on people) take it easy on the rest of us.:focus:


+1

You all know one of my comments.* "Read between the lines."* I guess it is a lost art.

I definitely know when regulars are jesting because they have posted hundreds of times and I have read all of them. They have no axe to grind when they poke fun at their fellow "regular" posters. They are just trying to lighten the mood!

Let's keep our sense of humour, our jesting and our friendships alive and if we have to spell it out to some so be it. And if one of the regulars is touchy because they didn't get their breakfast this morning we can always apologize. It won't kill us.


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