# EU "facts" and figures



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I've been looking at this from the Economist.
It' funny how the "facts" give one picture and the living give another. According to this info Spain really isn't doing too badly and although the UK is better off in nearly every aspect Spain is not so far behind and is better off than many other EU members.
*Except when talking about unemployment, of course and there Spain we have Spain's horiffic figures that everyone should be familiar with by now.* *(26% in general and 55% youth unemployment in Spain compared to 8% and 20% in Britain)*
Of course if you're living here you know what measures the govenment has taken to be able to reach that middle of the table position and you know that the standard of living and the public services available have worsened considerably in education and social security and social welfare above all.
Put the cursor over economy, debt and growth and you have various options to click on in the drop down menu

European economy guide: Taking Europeâ€™s pulse | The Economist
If the link doesn't work, Google *the economist european economy guide* in Google images and you'll see the tables and charts included in the article


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## Ozzieone (Feb 17, 2012)

*So what do we do?*

Couldn't agree more. 
I have spent a few months researching opening a business here in our small town. Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I would like to open a shop, to be a part of & benefit the local community, the bottom line is that the figures just don't add up. It is a real battle to open a business, which is fine, but I just can't be confident that the business would generate enough to afford the high monthly running costs. It is very disheartening & sad for spains' youth especially. 

but what do we do to change this? No, Really, what?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There are lies, damned lies and statistics, as someone said.

Years ago, when the UK Daily Mirror was a crusading left- of - centre paper, they did a series of pieces on the truth behind the 'figures'. They looked at the NHS, education and so on with the focus on people, not numbers.

What struck me most was the piece on incomes. The then average wage was something like £20 a week...but what most people actually received each week was abouthalf that....when you included pensioners, those on benefits and so on. Most earners received less than the average £ 20.

I'm no mathematician but I know the difference between average and mode. And I know that high end figures raise averages.
I also understand that choosing your preferred figures can paint the picture you want to see.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Ozzieone said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> I have spent a few months researching opening a business here in our small town. Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I would like to open a shop, to be a part of & benefit the local community, the bottom line is that the figures just don't add up. It is a real battle to open a business, which is fine, but I just can't be confident that the business would generate enough to afford the high monthly running costs. It is very disheartening & sad for spains' youth especially.
> 
> but what do we do to change this? No, Really, what?


Maybe you could contribute to this thread Ozzie
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...in/386170-would-you-start-business-spain.html

And what to do??
I really don't know. Hang on in there? Buy Spanish when possible? Look after the country's amazing natural spaces and resources? Wait for Spain to be more stable?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Maybe you could contribute to this thread Ozzie
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...in/386170-would-you-start-business-spain.html
> 
> And what to do??
> I really don't know. Hang on in there? Buy Spanish when possible? Look after the country's amazing natural spaces and resources? Wait for Spain to be more stable?


Get involved to change the system from within. It's the only way. 
Educate, agitate, organise.
Apart from the overthrow of socialism in Eastern Europe, change has never come from the streets and many people in those countries are becoming aware of the truth of the old adage ' Be careful what you wish for' as they have in many cases exchanged one form of oppression, socialism, for another, the 'free' market.'
Complaining about politicians is a very passive and sterile activity. It achieves nothing.
We are all citizens. It's up to us to break our own chains.
All my adult life I've been politically involved and I still am here in Spain, albeit in a small way.
I may not have succeeded in changing the world but I can't stand accused of passivity.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Remember the Economist has it's own slant on things. They aren't exactly impartial on the political front.

The other thing is what the normal people consider a problem (high unemployment and dropping wages) THEY consider a positive. When you hear the ECB saying deflation for some countries is a good thing. That it's part of the "adjustment" they are talking about that unemployment .

I think I've said this before but look up Lativa. 

Google "latvia internal devaluation"

Then understand THEY think Lativa is/was a success!

BTW if it isn't obvious Lativa is a relatively small country. Everything tends to be worse the bigger the country gets.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> Remember the Economist has it's own slant on things. They aren't exactly impartial on the political front.
> 
> The other thing is what the normal people consider a problem (high unemployment and dropping wages) THEY consider a positive. When you hear the ECB saying deflation for some countries is a good thing. That it's part of the "adjustment" they are talking about that unemployment .
> 
> ...


The Economist has a definite agenda. It promotes neo- liberalism. I used to subscribe but found I had to spend a lot of time counter- checking its 'facts'.

As you rightly say, free- marketeers think deflation and unemployment are positives.

They seem not to have learned the lessons of the Gold Standard fiasco.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Remember the Economist has it's own slant on things. They aren't exactly impartial on the political front.


Hence the "..."


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Get involved to change the system from within. It's the only way.
> Educate, agitate, organise.
> Apart from the overthrow of socialism in Eastern Europe, change has never come from the streets and many people in those countries are becoming aware of the truth of the old adage ' Be careful what you wish for' as they have in many cases exchanged one form of oppression, socialism, for another, the 'free' market.'
> Complaining about politicians is a very passive and sterile activity. It achieves nothing.
> ...


Which I can do if I so want and so can you now, but it's difficult for a newcomer to do that


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Which I can do if I so want and so can you now, but it's difficult for a newcomer to do that


True, I suppose...but I sought out the nearest PSOE office and e-mailed in my then very rudimentary Spanish.
A year later and I'm writing election material....in English.

There are times when tbh I wish I hadn't as that team deserved to lose control of the ayto, as I gradually discovered.

There seems to be a lot of negativity around though....attacking opponents is great fun and very necessary but it's more important not just to react to what they do and to have sound alternative policies.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My political views are largely irrelevant as I don't really have any - well, not in the sense of supporting any political party - but I have changed the world, albeit in a very, very tiny way for the world, but in an enormous way for me and the three children I helped introduce into the world. What they do is largely up to them, post leaving home....


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