# What do you eat in Japan?



## japanfan

When you're in Japan, what do you usually eat? What's your favorite food?


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## larabell

My personal favorites are shabu-shabu and yaki-niku (the latter commonly referred to as "Korean BBQ" in the States. But I also frequent an Indian place in my neigborhood, as well as a Mexican place not far from here, several family restaurants (including SIzzler), a couple of small chicken grills, and the occasional sushi restaurant.


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## steadyboy

Larabell, can you confirm/dispel the strong rumour about the cost of supermarkets selling western items? I am told they are very expensive, but can not tell how expensive is very expensive, if you get my point. How much would I pay for a jar of coffee? a litre of beer? a Big Mac? In general, I guess noodles would be cheaper and potatoes would be dearer, but are they twice the price, 5 times the price, 10 times the price?


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## larabell

No... I'm sorry I'm not very good at dispelling rumors. If the question is whether Western goods are more expensive than local goods, you can probably work that one out based on logic. A jar of Maxwell House imported from the US is almost certainly going to cost more than a jar of coffee packaged in Japan. The same is true if you're trying to buy Janapese goods in the US or Europe. If you're lucky enough to live in an area with a Japanese grocery, go check out a can of UCC coffee (and I'm assuming you're talking the ground kind, since the vending-machine type of canned coffee is not widespread in Western countries, as far as I recall).

I'm pretty sure that if _I_ was allowed to pick the items used in the survey and we limited it to locally available items (not imports) that are also available in the West, I could give you totals that would be either higher or lower in Japan than in the US. It really depends on what you buy (as you've probably already guessed).


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## synthia

Pocky Sticks. I ate local goods, except for spaghetti sauce. I went to great lengths and expense to get imported spaghetti sauce. It was a time-consuming and tiring process in Kitakyushu, so much so that I really didn't worry about the money much.


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## Sevenhelmets

steadyboy said:


> How much would I pay for a jar of coffee? a litre of beer? a Big Mac?


Anywhere else in the world and I would've laughed at the "litre of beer" statement. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on who's point of view it is) 1 litres do exist in Japan. Not sure how much they cost, but a 6 pack of 350 mil (or is it 375ml?) Asahi Superdry will set you back around 1,200 yen, which is effectively $11 USD, so basically about $1.80 USD per can. This is a rough estimate. You can buy beer that's cheaper, as you can buy more expensive stuff.

Not sure why you'd want a Big Mac .....


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## watamari

*food cost in Japan*

I recently visited Japan, and brought with me all the breakfast foods I knew would be expensive in Japan. Pop-Tarts, children's cereal, grown-up cereal, Skippy peanut butter, bulk oatmeal, corn flakes. In Japan, they cost 3-4 times more than in the US, because non-rice staples (corn, wheat, oats) are imported, or grown in small batches. In the US, an ear of corn is 25 cents - 33 cents, in Japan, $2.00? The peanut butter in Japan is overly sweet and disgusting. I was surprised to find that cereals and Pop-Tarts are too expensive to mail to Japan, because they weigh so much. I tried to mail them ahead of my visit, but in the end, I had to take them in my suitcase.
Fruit is also exorbitantly expensive in Japan. I recently bought a round watermelon, about half the size of a typical American watermelon, and it cost close to $20. I think fruit in Japan is treated as a gourmet item, and grown with the loving care of Kobe beef. I think each budding fruit gets a serial number and personal attention, such as a plastic bag around it to protect against insects, with lots of culling to make sure that the ones that survive are the biggest. It's completely frustrating, because you can't buy an ordinary hand-sized apple. All fruit have to be perfect giant-sized specimens, meaning that an apple is so big, that you have to eat half and refrigerate what's left, ruining the second half. I asked a Japanese friend about this, and she said that no one would buy ordinary fruit off a tree. 
Surprisingly, it's really cheap to eat out. If you eat out in the US, you never get a set meal, you have to buy the drink, the soup, the salad, the entree, all separately, and when you add in tax and tip, dinner out comes to at least $30. In Japan, green tea is basically like water and comes free, and most dinners are sets that include miso soup and rice (and trace quantities of salad). I think you can get a satisfying meal for around $15 on average. I also assume that second helpings of rice are free in many of the cheaper restaurants. Considering how expensive grocery shopping is in Japan, eating out seems like a good way to save money. 
If you want to save on grocery bills in Japan, growing your own vegetables might be worth it. 
Mari


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## larabell

That's a bit exaggerated. My wife shops by phone via the local co-op because we both work and the co-op delivers. So I have access to a recent price list. They have a whole watermelon listed for just over 500 yen (which is $5, not $20). The corn in their listing is more like $1 per ear, not $2. I do believe that produce is more expensive here than in the US -- mostly because there's not as much land devoted to growing the stuff. I expect a significant portion is imported from elsewhere, which makes it even more expensive. Few places in the world produce food as cheaply as the US.

But there *are* local fruit and vegetable stores around where you can buy regular produce just like back home. That includes 4 or 5 regular size apples in a plastic bag, loose tomatoes and other veggies, potatoes in a sack, etc... The pampered stuff seems to be a Japanese-only specialty and while it's certainly not unusual to go into the basement of the local department store and find a bruise-free pampered melon, with the stems cut perfectly, packed in it's own protective foam, and selling for $50, of course -- these are meant as gifts, as far as I can tell. Nobody feeds their family from the basement of Odakyu. If Western countries had the same gift-giving focus as the Japanese, you could probably buy polished jumbo apples for $20 each there, too.

One thing to remember is that it will always be more expensive for an ex-pat in any country to eat the exact same things he or she is used to at home. The same almost certainly applies to a Japanese living in the US and expecting his usual fried fish, rice, and miso soup breakfast. If you buy local stuff, it's a lot cheaper (I can't speak to the peanut butter, though, because I never eat the stuff myself ;-).

I do agree that it's often cheaper to eat out here than in the US. My company has a $15 limit on business-trip lunches which does just fine here. However, when I go to California on business, I always end up over-limit unless I eat at McDonalds every day. But... of course... those cheap lunches and dinners consist of things that are local to Japan and not pop-tarts ;-)...


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## synthia

Now I'm thinking of other things. Okonomayaki (sp?), and the green pepper yakitori with the giant salt grains. And those tiny cans of beer from the vending machines - three perfect cold swallows on a really hot day...

Most Japanese fruits are seasonal. So oranges and mandarins in season were virtually free. Japan doesn't really produce bananas, so there are no protective tariffs, which keeps the cost down and makes them pretty affordable. The seasonality was kind of nice. The sudden availability of large bags of mandarin oranges for virtually nothing was such a treat.

What the US has is a variety of climates, so that strawberries are more expensive when they are out of season, but not horribly so. Where I live in Florida, strawberry season is in February. In the summer, we import them from up north. Oh, and most of our eating oranges come from California, since most Flordia growers produce juice oranges.


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## watamari

*co-op prices*

Hi Larabell,
I've never shopped at a co-op in Japan before, but their prices must be cheaper than your regular grocer, because where I bought the watermelon (on July 3rd of this year), there were no 500 yen whole watermelons. The one I bought was the largest size they had, so yes, the smaller watermelon was 1400 yen as opposed to 1800. And this was a stand alone supermarket far from any train station/ department store in Fujisawa. And all the years I've lived in Japan, I don't remember seeing any bagged apples. I guess you're lucky and know where to shop. 
As for eating the local diet, as much as I like rice, rice for breakfast seems to give me heartburn, and requires okazu of some sort, plates to put it all on, a pair of chopsticks, and you have to open the refrigerator. Bread, you can stick in the toaster, slap some peanut butter on it, and stuff it in your pocket or backpack for eating on your way to the station. 

Do any of the expats eat rice for breakfast? What do you think about bread in Japan? 
I had trouble finding good European style al dente bread. Regular bread seemed to be sweet and too soft.

Mari


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## synthia

I never have been able to handle rice or fish for breakfast. I sprung for cereals. Since I lived in a smaller city, Kitakyushu, my rnet wasn't so terribly high ($450 per month for a 2DK), so I could afford to pretty much eat what I wanted. I just cringed a lot for the first four months.


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## beatnik

steadyboy said:


> Larabell, can you confirm/dispel the strong rumour about the cost of supermarkets selling western items? I am told they are very expensive, but can not tell how expensive is very expensive, if you get my point. How much would I pay for a jar of coffee? a litre of beer? a Big Mac? In general, I guess noodles would be cheaper and potatoes would be dearer, but are they twice the price, 5 times the price, 10 times the price?


America brands are a little more but for the most part it's not crazy expensive like most people say. I visited Tokyo this past spring and found that most things were no more than 20% higher in price and in most cases I think only about 10% higher than Los Angeles. 

Things like rent are not bad. Transportation will cost you more than say NYC but using the trains in Tokyo is still more economical than having to maintain a car payment, insurance and gas in a place like Los Angeles. 

I hope these comparisons help.

I think most of the notions that Japan is very expense come from tourists that found fancy cafe in a tourist/shopping area and ordered an infamous $7 coffee. This is rare and if you really want a good coffee you can actually get one from a vending machine for about $1.20. Hot and tasty in a nice can.


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## beatnik

japanfan said:


> When you're in Japan, what do you usually eat? What's your favorite food?


As for japanese food I still love sushi the most but when I went to Japan I ate less sushi than when I'm in California. There's so much variety in their diet, at least in what my friends eat. If you want to try something good and fast look for Akiba Kabab in Akihabra (electric town). The serve a unique rice bowl which is turkish style shwarma over rice. The rice is slightly fried and the beef is delicious. Even my japanese friend enjoyed it a lot.


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## larabell

That coffee thing is probably the most often cited example of how "expensive" Tokyo (and Japan in general) can be. But... try ordering one coffee in your local California Starbucks and sit there reading for 3 hours. See how long before they toss you out onto the pavement. There are no restaurants I know of where the coffee is free (like in many Stateside places) but it's not expensive and many places offer free refills. But a non-restaurant coffee shop has to make *some* money off all the deadbeats that treat the place like a public library.

Also, tourists tend to eat in (or at least near) major hotels. Try walking down one of those narrow shopping streets in a residential neighborhood. Pick a place at random. I've done that many times and have never been disappointed.


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## larabell

The coffee thing is probably the most often cited example of how "expensive" Tokyo (and Japan in general) can be. But the folks spreading these tales have probably never tried going into a Starbucks in the US, ordering one cup of coffee, and sitting in the shop for three hours reading. Coffee shops here may be expensive but the shop has to get *some* money out of the leeches that treat the place like it's the public library (actually, I'm joking... it seems to be a cultural norm here that buying a cup of Java entitles you to free rent at the table for as long as you like).

And don't forget that tourists (who are probably the primary source of the exaggerated cost-of-living stories) often eat in or near their hotels. But if you get away from the crowded area, look for a neighborhood shopping street, and pick a restaurant at random, it's not likely you will be disappointed. I've done that many times. You don't need to read the menu -- just look around at what's on the other tables and point. I even do that in my local place where I *can* read the menu. I sit at the counter where I can see the head chef doing his thing. If I see something I might like, I say "hey, what's that?" and if it sounds good I order one. Most of what I eat there I cannot recommend to others because I don't even know what it's called. I almost always order by habit or by sight.


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## synthia

I lived in Tokyo for three months, and then in Kitakyushu for a year. The difference in cost was dramatic.

A lot depends, too, on what the cost of living was in the place you left. The English people I met thought costs were about the same as at home, while I was choking over $11 for a movie that, at the time, would have cost $5 back in DC.


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## beatnik

synthia said:


> I lived in Tokyo for three months, and then in Kitakyushu for a year. The difference in cost was dramatic.
> 
> A lot depends, too, on what the cost of living was in the place you left. The English people I met thought costs were about the same as at home, while I was choking over $11 for a movie that, at the time, would have cost $5 back in DC.


makes sense, I happen to live in Los Angeles, probably the most costly place to live in the U.S. Yes we have mostly $9 and $11 movies here. Yikes!


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## larabell

Today I was in "Life" (a fairly popular supermarket chain in Tokyo) with my son buying stuff for lunch (he's off school this month). I saw a bunch of plastic bags stacked up, with five greenish-looking apples in each bag, selling for 498 yen (about $1.00 for each apple, sure, but that's a far cry from the prices you pay for the overly pampered single specimins).

If it's any help, I also saw plastic bags of 5 "navel oranges" (at least that's what the sign said) for a little less than 400 yen for each bag.

I don't recall off-hand the watermelon price but I think it was about 500 yen for a quarter melon. That would make the original watermelon something like 2000 yen, I guess. We opted for the pre-cut-up chunks because Pop is too lazy to cut the thing up for lunch .


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## synthia

The prices don't seem so outlandish now that things have gone up so much in the US.


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## jamesc

steadyboy said:


> Larabell, can you confirm/dispel the strong rumour about the cost of supermarkets selling western items? I am told they are very expensive, but can not tell how expensive is very expensive, if you get my point. How much would I pay for a jar of coffee? a litre of beer? a Big Mac? In general, I guess noodles would be cheaper and potatoes would be dearer, but are they twice the price, 5 times the price, 10 times the price?


I can dispel the rumour ... I have lived in Nakano Fujimicho (4 stations from Shinjuku) for 5 years and shop at the supermarkets in my area ... it is cheap if you want it to be, even when buying western styled food. I buy 2 tomatoes for Yen 100 (US$ 0.95) , 500ml cans of beer for Yen 280, a tray of sliced steak for Yen 700, 2 potatoes for about Yen 120, a bottle of foreign win for about Yen 800, pack of potatoe chips for Yen 100, a pack of coffee beans for Yen 700. 

And if you are lazy like me then you can go to places that prepare meals and you buy by weight (Origin Bento). I can get a full meal for about Yen 700 that consists of chicken, vegetables etc.

Of course, on the other hand, if you want super expensive food you can get it too.


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## larabell

jamesc said:


> ... I have lived in Nakano Fujimicho (4 stations from Shinjuku) for 5 years and shop at the supermarkets in my area ...


You and I share the same station, it seems. I'm about two blocks from the Johnathan's.


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## jamesc

larabell said:


> You and I share the same station, it seems. I'm about two blocks from the Johnathan's.


Just down from the 99 Yen Store .... Its a great area.


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## synthia

For years after I left, Japan went through a deflationary period, so while prices there are probably on a par with, or even less than, what I paid in the early nineties, things in the US have gotten dramatically more expensive. Movies are now $9-11 here in the US, too.


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## synthia

And every time I read this thread I get a craving for something. In the yakitori places, the green peppers with the great big grains of salt...


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## larabell

Yeah... there are a lot of things in Japan that are hard to find elsewhere but the reverse is also true. Every time I go back to the States, I make an effort to have Prime Rib at least once during the trip because I have yet to find a decent place here that serves it. Sure... I've heard of a few expensive places in Roppongi -- and I've tried Tony Roma's but it's just not the same.

I wonder why yakitori never caught on in the States. You'd think it would be pretty easy to do.


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## synthia

I miss Reece's peanut butter cups, but I think I've mentioned that before. I once actually found myself yearning for takotori (or is it takoyaki). You know, those little octopi on a stick that you get at festivals. I have to be mildly drunk to eat them, but they are permanently associated in my mind with festivals and drums and those tiny cans of ice cold beer from the vending machines.


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