# Dubai or Australia?!!



## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

I appreciate that this may seem like an impossible question to answer...but it is the decision I'm faced with. 
My husband is an aircraft engineer currently working a 3 month contract in Melbourne (which looks very likely to become a permanent position but could move to Perth or Sydney!). He has had an interview to work for Emirates in Dubai (also permanently!)... and here in lies the problem!
I have spent much time researching both options as this is going to be a big move for our family (we have an 8 yr old son). I have read so many conflicting messages about safety in Dubai - some folks speaking of how very safe it is whilst others suggesting that as a westerner you have to be careful! I don't know what to think now. 
We have never lived outside the UK and I am very aware that where ever we choose things will be very different from home! I am cautiously optimistic about both options but for very different reasons.
I am a primary school teacher with 11 years experience and would hope to find work so that I can broaden my own horizons. 
Both packages on offer to my husband are competitive within the respective countries and he is excited about the prospect of working permanently for either company so the decision is one of which is right for our family... Dubai or Australia?!
I would be enormously grateful of any advise (however non-specific!) you might be able to give... It seems to me a forum such as this has the wealth of knowledge and experience that I am clearly lacking!! 
Many thanks in advance.


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

Emaroyds said:


> I appreciate that this may seem like an impossible question to answer...but it is the decision I'm faced with.
> My husband is an aircraft engineer currently working a 3 month contract in Melbourne (which looks very likely to become a permanent position but could move to Perth or Sydney!). He has had an interview to work for Emirates in Dubai (also permanently!)... and here in lies the problem!
> I have spent much time researching both options as this is going to be a big move for our family (we have an 8 yr old son). I have read so many conflicting messages about safety in Dubai - some folks speaking of how very safe it is whilst others suggesting that as a westerner you have to be careful! I don't know what to think now.
> We have never lived outside the UK and I am very aware that where ever we choose things will be very different from home! I am cautiously optimistic about both options but for very different reasons.
> ...


Long term move it's Australia. For a few years maybe Dubai. 

Thats just my take on it. If you're in a position to emigrate to oz then that's not to be snifted at. If you pass on it you might be too old to score enough points in a few years. Australia might also be a great long term move fo your family. 

Unfortunately a move to dubai could never be emigration, you'd always be a UK expat whose residency would be job dependent. That said if the money's better in Dubai then there are reasons to consider it especially considering the lack of income tax here versus australian taxes. Might be an opp to save whilst being somewhere different not too far from home. Secondary schools here aren't great though so a lot of expats leave when their kids hit that age. 

As to your questions about restrictions on everyday life. That gives away that you haven't visited - which you must do before committing - but you concerns are ill founded I'm sure.


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

I agree with Jim. Dubai is good to save money on the short/medium term (although a lot of people don't manage to save a dime!!), and Australia is better for long term.


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Dubai has more potential for saving if both of you get work. You can save very easily here.

Australia is a great quality of life, it is expensive to live.

For me I would go where the money is.


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## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

My goodness what quick responses!
I haven't actually visited either place so I feel like I'm fumbling a bit in the dark! My husband has only spent a couple of days in Dubai during the interview process and has seen only a very limited amount of the city. He is obviously at an advantage working in Australia as he is there for a longer period so will get a better sense of what's involved with living there. 
I am frustrated as the 'other half' as I don't get the same insight until the decision needs making - then I might well feel a little pressured! 
I'm normally the one who wears the trousers and makes all the big decisions so this is a bit of an unusual situation for me! But I'm trying to view it as a new chapter for my family with exciting possibilities/prospects ahead!!
Perhaps you could recommend places worth visiting in Dubai (if and when we make it there!) that will give us more of a sense of what it would be like to live there and not just holiday there! My husband visited the large shopping mall and a sample of accomodation (and not much else) when he was there so he wasn't able to get much of a feel for the life we might live. For example, I understand there are 'compounds' which are favoured by families to live etc. Are we able to visit these or can you only gain access as a resident?
Many thanks for your insight - it's much appreciated! I certainly know where to come for more specific destination advise when the time comes.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

I would go with Australia. As others have said, Dubai is a very temporary means of saving money. I've been here for 2.5 years and to be honest, if the opportunity to move came along, I would not look back and would simply jump on the first plane out of here!

From the point of view that you have a young son, Australia will offer a lot more, particularly with regards to outdoor lifestyle. Dubai is great if you love shopping malls and have the money to lead a rather lavish lifestyle else it can become a bit repetitive and rather boring. There isn't that many outdoor activities and even the simple pleasures like walking to the shop can become a bit of a mission!
I also think that you would meet far genuine people in Australia - yes, you would make lots of friends here but they won't ever compare to your good friends back home and you will most likely forget about them very quickly as soon as you leave (before I get shot for this last comment, this is just my opinion!  Other people may have completely different experiences).

It is difficult to gauge what Dubai has to offer whilst being on holiday but you if you are planning on visiting, there is a list of places that you could visit that is listed in the sticky on the first page What's on & what to do 

I think with regards to your career, it won't really make much difference whichever place you choose to move to. There are good career opportunities in both places.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

I would never put a person off trying Dubai and would always say give it a go, but with a few pointers so they are relatively risk free. That said if they had an actual choice, like yourself, I would say Australia every time.


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

[QUOTE="Mr Rossi" I would say Australia every time.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.


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## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

Interesting to hear the different perspectives! If I'm honest I think my husband would probably rather Australia and I Dubai!!! It'll be interesting to see how/if my opinion will change with further research and visits (hopefully!). After all research can only tell you so much about a place - there's nothing quite like first hand experience!
Many thanks again!


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## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

Mr Rossi, Many thanks for your advise. I wonder if you'd mind elaborating on the 'few pointers'... I would appreciate an 'insiders' view of the risks. I have read examples from an enormous range of perspectives from Dubai as the 'safest city in the world' view point to the more western world stereotypes of a nation where all women should be covered from head to toe and walk three paces behind there husband!!! I'm sure the later is far from the truth but would prefer to hear it from folks with experience!! 
Many thanks


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## ossie (Jun 8, 2010)

An aussie here, been living and working in UAE for just over a year, so I might be a little biased..!!!

I'm heading home in a couple of months and wont be coming back. A good place to earn a few bucks, but that's changing in the field your hubby is in, and you'll never be able to call the UAE home..

I'm in aviation also, here and was downunder. I can't get back to Oz quick enough..!!!


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## Sandgroper74 (Mar 1, 2011)

Hi, as an Australian I guess I am biased with my reply. If you have a visa for Australia then I would suggest grabbing the opportunity now. It may lead to permanent residency, if you want that. My husband has permanent residency for Australia and we are living in Dubai. We need to return to Australia within 5 years to maintain his residency visa.

Experienced teachers are well remunerated in Australia (in Perth for sure) and you could easily get work FT, PT or relief teaching. There are teaching jobs in Dubai but they do not pay that well (IMO). Daycare is much cheaper and easier to arrange in Australia than here in Dubai.

A downside to Australia is the distance to the UK. Yes there are taxes too but with the right visa you have free schooling and healthcare.

Dubai is an interesting place to live and a gateway to many other places to travel to but on a day to day basis I think there are more leisure activities available in Australia (and especially the WA & NSW beaches).


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## VADXB (Jun 4, 2009)

Australia would be a much better choice. I was in the same situation few years back when I had the option between Singapore and Dubai. I ended up picking Dubai and I must say, I do regret it. Please dont get me wrong, this city is a fantastic place and there are lots of nice things about living in Dubai but the lack of outdoor life is a huge set back.

If you have a young family, you will be better off in Australia. Money might appear to be a tempting factor with Dubai (certainly did in my case) but the truth is there are lots of hidden expenses here and you never actually save much (mainly due to the life style). That said, it all depends on the two offers your husband has and the career prospects etc. 

Good luck with your decision!


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

^^^ I'm relatively new here, been here under 1 year but would like to answer from a female perspective. 

You have to be careful and obey the rules here which usually expats don't know until they're living here and are warned by work colleagues. You will be told over and over and reminded 'this is a Muslim country' by everyone and anyone.

During Ramadan (a whole month) you cannot chew, eat or drink water in public. Think about this....During this time you also can't wear singlets or shorts in public. If you do you will be shot looks dirty enough to kill and asked to leave the mall, yes the guards 'police' this.

Anytime you also cannot swear, or basically upset any locals, complain - look at them funny. If you do they can get the cops imprison you without grounds. 

You have to get a letter from your employer to get a alcohol license. 

You have to get a letter from your employer to get a drivers license.

You have to get a letter from your employer to get a credit card or loan - Payslips aren't enough. 

To leave the country you have to complete an exit visa showing you owe nothing. This can be declined. 

This country is very strictly run by paperwork, stamps, checks, tick boxes. If there is a dot missing they will decline whatever it is and shake their head. And won't help you. 

I went to pick up my dog from customs, I passed by 6-8 desks and paid bills in 3 different locations to get my dog 4 hours after getting there. In 40degree heat mind you at 1am. She had been in sub zero aircon the whole time which I was heavily stressed about (heatstress).


The drivers on the road here are very very bad and very dangerous, all jokes aside. Taxis and expats, foreign workers all equally to blame in this. I've seen 3 smashes this last week alone.


The quality of Beauty services is very bad and highly priced. I don't get my nails done anymore because it's 110+USD per gel set. I'm not exaggerating.


I'm doing distance education - uni because postgrad entry into UAE universities is almost impossible. Many expats do this because of this reason. I asked the dean of a well known (western) uni here and he said his hands are tied in red tape.


Healthcare is ok it's paid for by my employer. I go to a hospital the GP there is male but good. A major claim they should have paid for they declined with a very very flimsy reply/rule. It's like a jungle here with no rules.


I have colored hair. Finding a hairdresser was stressful. You walk into any salon and all filipino staff harass you for nail services which is fine however when you ask for the expat hairdresser they're booked for a month in advance.

I'm not trying to put a big downer on your idea of Dubai, I'm just pointing out that its not easy here and these are some of the things I have seen/found. I have lived in a western country and also a chinese country for large periods of time and not had to deal with any of this. I also don't have kids. 

Separate from all those gripes I am actually happy here. Admittedly I had a pay rise to move here and very happy with career here also.

You CAN make it work it depends how much you want it.


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## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

It's sounding more and more like Australia would be the better, more family orientated option! We're not a particularly 'outdoors lifestyle' kind of family but not to have the option I think would be a draw back. Many of the comments lead me think that my son would probably be a happier boy in Australia too, and to be honest I'd probably be a happier mum too - not having to worry about the significant cultural differences! 
Thanks so much for the input - although we've yet to make the decision it does make me feel more empowered for when the time comes!
One more question to my Aussie friends then... If you had to choose between Perth, Melbourne or Sydney which would it be?! Another no doubt impossible question to give a direct answer to! Sorry!!!
Thanks in advance


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Haha you will find a classic debate between Sydney and Melbourne depending on which the forum members are from...


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## gaga555 (Apr 18, 2011)

Lived in Melbourne for over a year and would pick it over every other place on earth tbh, Dubai included. Especially for raising an 8 year old. Fantastic city.


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## Ducati2010 (Jul 27, 2010)

you , husband and the son

lived in wollongong for six mounth, then sydney for more than three years, thinking to move to dubai , so i spent a month there,

Australia has a great education, this what is matter for your kid,you can make money any where in world, education no, your kid will have friends for life, in dubai his friend will travel around the world for Uni,your kid if he live Australia can stay for ever.

what dubai to offer as my view, people in dubai people who could not have a job any where better other than dubai, it is rare to see some one one in dubai outstanding world wise,

in Australia yes, Usa, and UK yes.

the great part about Australia is the diversity, sydney, Melbourne, perth,cains goldcoust and many there are so different, Australian are positive in general and not materialistic while dubai is the city of gold, every one ask what is your job and where you live what is your car, is all about what you have nothing left for you as human bee

every place has it is positive and negative

chances come and go

this is just a view with no responsibility 

wish you the best


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## Ducati2010 (Jul 27, 2010)

perth is a small city,as small no traffic easy to make friends
Melbourne is metropolitan is the real australia has the highest greek society outside Greek in the world, many Italians and Germans immigrate to it ,it is little Europe

sydney is a just a beautiful city, so much fun to do , people are busy, it has a different vibe of a busy,beautiful fun city


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## mitchell0417 (Oct 11, 2010)

One thing no-one has mentioned is that you really do need to consider the amount of support both mental and actual that you receive from your family and friends. I moved to Aus about 15 years ago (wife is an Aussie) and am very self sufficient and grew up living "away from home" but still found that side difficult. I'm sure people will say that with Skype and travel being so affordable these days blah blah blah. Don't necessarily believe it. The UK is a long way away so if your used to your family (or his) helping with your child x days a week and heading off out etc then really consider what life will be like somewhere where that doesn't exist.

Don't get me wrong I love living in Aus (and am infact in process of relocating to Dubai for a while) but if you're not really used to being away from family it may be best to consider somewhere closer to home first (7 hrs not 26 to fly home and 3 hr time difference not 9 when you fancy a chat on phone/skype). Also I am guessing that the Dubai experience where you get free flights home each year and the end of the time there (even if not on a fixed term contract) when you leave you get end of service and paid to go home may be a better first step than gettingto Aus and deciding being away from fam and friends to hard and having to relocate yourselves back home.

My opinion would be commit to Dubai for a couple of years and if living abroad suits you then look to relocat to Aus. As I said I loveit here in Au and would never consider living back in UK but large numbers who come from UK return within a year or two due to finding life without the family support too hard.

Hope this helps rather than hinders!


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## mitchell0417 (Oct 11, 2010)

Emaroyds said:


> It's sounding more and more like Australia would be the better, more family orientated option! We're not a particularly 'outdoors lifestyle' kind of family but not to have the option I think would be a draw back. Many of the comments lead me think that my son would probably be a happier boy in Australia too, and to be honest I'd probably be a happier mum too - not having to worry about the significant cultural differences!
> Thanks so much for the input - although we've yet to make the decision it does make me feel more empowered for when the time comes!
> One more question to my Aussie friends then... If you had to choose between Perth, Melbourne or Sydney which would it be?! Another no doubt impossible question to give a direct answer to! Sorry!!!
> Thanks in advance


It's easy. Brisbane


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Emaroyds said:


> I'm sure the later is far from the truth but would prefer to hear it from folks with experience!!


It very much is.

The advice I would give to anyone is to make sure you get *everything* listed in the contract - salary, housing allowance, school fees, insurance etc if they are being offered. Never act on goodwill such as "we will sort this out when you get here" 

Also in a family situation, I would recommend the person with the job comes here first on their own and settles in their job for a month or two. It can be hard to be seperated from your spouse for so long but nothing compared to selling up, uprooting and finding problems with either the work contract or employer.

Sure there is the bad driving, frustration at public services, house repairs etc but for the most part, most expats here live quite an easy life - apartment/villa, BBQ's, beach, Friday roast, football in the pub and driving the Pajero down to Spinneys. It's far from a bad life but given a choice I'd opt for something else. 

Then again I'm probably going through a bit of Dubai fatigue at the moment.


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

Australia over Dubai....

Perth - Hells no
Sydney - I liked Sydney... good mix of things to do and see.
Melbourne - I never been, but I have heard some really good things about it, good mix of elasticities, culture, and also has a Sydney-feel to it. My friends from Oz love Melbourne. 
Brisbane - I really enjoyed my time in Brisbane. Surfer's paradise and other things to do on the beach are but a short drive away. I think you will enjoy Brisbane.


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## GW75 (Feb 26, 2011)

Emaroyds said:


> It's sounding more and more like Australia would be the better, more family orientated option! We're not a particularly 'outdoors lifestyle' kind of family but not to have the option I think would be a draw back. Many of the comments lead me think that my son would probably be a happier boy in Australia too, and to be honest I'd probably be a happier mum too - not having to worry about the significant cultural differences!
> Thanks so much for the input - although we've yet to make the decision it does make me feel more empowered for when the time comes!
> One more question to my Aussie friends then... If you had to choose between Perth, Melbourne or Sydney which would it be?! Another no doubt impossible question to give a direct answer to! Sorry!!!
> Thanks in advance


I'm from Adelaide originally so no bias here comparing the three. Melbourne would be my choice. It's a fantastic city that I much prefer to Sydney. If you don't mind being a bit isolated in terms of closeness to other cities then Perth is also a good choice with lots of UK expats also. I completely agree with the other posts about Australia being the far better choice for you long term.


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

mitchell0417 said:


> As I said I loveit here in Au and would never consider living back in UK but large numbers who come from UK return within a year or two due to finding life without the family support too hard.


I have heard this too among expats in china.

Also heard that uk expats in Australia find it hard to make friends due to culture difference.


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## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

mitchell0417 said:


> One thing no-one has mentioned is that you really do need to consider the amount of support both mental and actual that you receive from your family and friends!


I have to say this is exactly the reason why I favoured Dubai over Australia - having family only 7 hours away seemed a bit more comforting than being a day away! That said, any where that's not England will feel like lightyears away from home for a while I'm sure!!!! I have always been a creature of habit and have close relationships with family and friends. It is I that will find the move a challenge - my husband doesn't have the ties that I do and has much more of a desire to live abroad. I am 'excited' by the opportunity and I think it will do me good to try something new. I am still a realist however so have agreed to commit to 2 years where ever we go - this felt like an appropriate amount of time to give in order to judge whether I can cope being away from home (and without giving up to soon!). We can always extend our stay long term if we settle. 
I just hope that what ever decision we reach proves to be the right one for our family as there is nothing to say that the alternative job offer will be available in the future!!! 
Thanks again for all the advise, much appreciated


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

pandabearest said:


> Also heard that uk expats in Australia find it hard to make friends due to culture difference.


Can there possibly be that much of a culture shock between OZ and the UK?

Certainly wouldn't be in relation to the one here in the UAE.

(He says while on hold to Amarex for the last hour, chasing a parcel that was meant to be here 3 months ago.)


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Emaroyds said:


> as there is nothing to say that the alternative job offer will be available in the future!!!


This is quite a speculative statement but I'd say there would be more job security in Oz too. Not just in the financial stability of the employer but also labour laws etc. 

Also, I'm assuming Austraila don't recall debts in an instant and imprison those that can't pay?


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Mr Rossi said:


> Can there possibly be that much of a culture shock between OZ and the UK?


Uk expats said it. 1 single and 1 family.


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## Sandgroper74 (Mar 1, 2011)

I actually found it quite hard to make friends in Melbourne for the 3 years that I lived there and my husband found the same. I've lived in Perth most of my life. I think it was due to the size of Melbourne and locals already having many friends & family. It is a great city for culture, sport, shopping, nightlife and access to the east coast and NZ. It was too cold for me!

I love Perth though. A small city with great beaches and the Swan River. Lots of outdoor activities to do and a warm climate. It is great for families but can be a bit sleepy for singles! Closer to the UK and Bali than the East coast.

I do agree about the comments about family support & starting your expat experience closer to home. Family might come to Australia once every 5 years or not at all like my husband's family! Then again the expat community are all in the same boat and provide support, if you ask for it. We moved to Dubai to be closer to Germany, more annual leave & paid flights, but I see it as a 3 - 5 year prospect.

Check out the impact of exchange rates if you have a mortgage. The dirham is very weak against the Aussie dollar so losing a lot of money sending it home!


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

Brits who have culture shock in Aus will not last long anywhere. Aus, perhaps after NZ, has to the the closest to British culture out of any country.

Agree with comments about Perth. Amazing city and none of the big city hassles of Sydney & Melbourne. Yes its a long way from other Aus cities but only 4 hours to Singapore, Bali etc and about 5-6 hours closer to Dubai/the UK than the east coast cities.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

If I had a kid I would probably prefer raising him back in Australia. Better by far than Dubai in many ways.

If I had no children I would stay in Dubai.

I actually know some couples who returned back to Canada because of the quality of education given here in Dubai. I also know expats who stayed and raised children here and sent the kids to attend university in the states.

Remember, it really depends on what you guys are looking for. Make a list of pos and cons for your family.

If you are considering money and all the perks of an expat life; Dubai that is. If you are looking for security, good education, quality of life and high income tax that's Australia


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## Sandgroper74 (Mar 1, 2011)

If you have a sub-class 457 (business) visa to Australia you may get LAFHA, living away from home allowance which means approximately 20k of income is tax free, and may put you in a lower tax bracket.


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## Emaroyds (Apr 18, 2011)

Not sure which visa my husband has. I know it's a business visa but I understand from what he told me this morning is that he's been advised that he will have to pay 30% tax and that he won't get any tax free allowance. Money is clearly another consideration but if I had to choose between money or lifestyle I'd probably chose the later. We will have a property in the UK, that we can't sell (even after 15 months of trying!) so we will need to earn enough between us to maintain our UK house until we can sell it. We will need to consider then the exchange we'll get for dirhams to sterling and for dollars to sterling. Yet another thing to add to the list of considerations!! 
I really value everyone's input - you have given me much food for thought!! Thanks again!


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

BTW, just on exchange rate - you may be better off converting AED to GBP than AUD to GBP. AED is linked to USD. The issue one of the posters was facing was because AUD has strengthened a LOT in the last one and a half years. IMHO I can only see the AUD getting stronger (commodity prices) and so you will always be worse off converting AUD to GBP. However, I do not see the GBP-USD/AED rate changing all that much.
[P.S.:currencies are notoriously difficult to forecast so don't even try!]


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## pandabearest (Aug 14, 2010)

Sandgroper74 said:


> I actually found it quite hard to make friends in Melbourne for the 3 years that I lived there and my husband found the same. I've lived in Perth most of my life. I think it was due to the size of Melbourne and locals already having many friends & family.


Exactly. I have heard from expats they find it very cliquey in Aus in regards to meeting friends/ new people. 

The people 'grow up' together and it's quite difficult to penetrate into 'groups' of pre-formed friends from childhood. Of course there are exceptions to this one would assume.

I was just mentioning it in the mix it is all.


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## INFAMOUS (Apr 19, 2011)

Australia is an awesome place, and although I have not yet been to Dubai, it really depends on what you want for your child. Personally I think the diversity of Dubai would be a great asset to have. Australia is pretty laid back but as mentioned above.. Make a list of pros and cons and weigh each one of them on a scale of 1-5... add up all the points and see which one comes out on top. You may be surprised!


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