# Moving to Sydney from U.S. - Lots of ?'s



## MedicRob (Jan 8, 2008)

Happy New Year! A couple of my friends and I are in the application and testing process to move to Australia (Sydney). After a lot of paperwork, letters, verification of qualifications, and all of that stuff we are going down for our testing in April, and hopefully moving in the fall.

1) We want to scout our some neighborhoods. I was told that Northern Beaches is a good place. Where else is a nice place to rent in, commute from, etc.? Where should we avoid?

2) Cars. Can we take our left handed drive vehicles? I have a Nissan Pathfinder that I love. Is it worth it?

3) Pets. I have a 10 year old black lab. I know there is a quarantine period. Anyone have any advice of do or dont?

4) I think we have decided to not move much (appliances, etc). Since most places seem to be furnished, this seems like a good cost saving method. How are the prices on electronics, and furniture?

Any other helpful advice you may have for moving from the US would be great.


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## kaz101 (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi MedicRob, 

Welcome to the forum. 

I don't know much about Sydney so I can't help you there.

Most people do not ship their cars to Australia. There is the cost of shipping it in a container, then getting it cleaned at the docks, paying for any adjustments needed, getting it through an inspection and then because it is left hand drive the insurance will be loaded. Oh and depending on how long you have owned the car and whether it is considered luxury or not there are extra taxes to pay. 

We brought in our left hand drive 1971 Mustang. We are waiting for a few changes before it gets inspected. Unless you really love the car, or it is unique in some way I really wouldn't bother.

There is a link in the "Helpful websites to move to Ausralia" post at the top of the forum about importing cars. 

Regards,
Karen


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## wmhinternet (Aug 9, 2007)

Where to live in Sydney an experience - updated

Hi

I have moved to Sydney from the UK (Alba, Caledonia, Scotia ;-)) last year on a skilled / business visa. What follows is more or less a brain dump of my experience and research around looking for somewhere to stay in the greater Sydney area, also reflects some of the advice I have been given.

You should note that this is my view only and is not intended to be anything else.

Where not to stay:

Western or South Western suburbs, to name a few:
Redfern
Croydon
Bankstown
Campsie
Lakemba
Punchbowl
Cabramatta
Macquarrie Fields
Parramatta
MacDonald Town
Eastwood
Ashfield
Strathfield

South East suburbs such as Marouba and Cronulla
Although Marouba and Cronulla are OK and have undergone some transformation since the surfer gang days and the 2005 race riots.

I am not saying that the above are bad, I know expat’s living in some of those areas and there have been no complaints, generally there are nice areas and not so no nice areas and it all comes down to what you can afford.

Where to stay:

North Shore (upper and lower), to name a few:
North Sydney (mostly corporate businesses)
St Leonard’s (mostly corporate businesses)
Artarmon
Wollenstoncraft
Chatswood
Crows Nest
Gordon
Pymble
Lane Cove
Artarmon
Northwood
Naremburn
Roseville
Killara
Lindfield
Turramurra
Warrawee
Wahroonga
Fox Valley
Asquith
Berowra
Waverton
Waitara
Hornsby and surrounding area
Cremorne
St Ives
Terry Hills (along Mona Vale Road)

Northern Beaches, Mona Vale, Narrabeen etc.

North West such as Cherry Brook, West Pennant Hills, Beecroft, Castle Hill, The Hills areas.

Epping to Thornleigh on the Northern Line

Inner West suburbs such as Balmain and Rozelle

Eastern suburbs such as Rose Bay, Dover Heights, Vaucluse

Sutherland-shire

You also have the option to head out towards the Blue Mountains and some of the suburbs there, although this will mean a commute to Sydney by bus or car mostly.

Some people we have spoken to go as far North as Wyong, Newcastle and commute by train or car into the city each day, the further North you go the cheaper it is to rent or buy property, unless its got water/sea views or beach access

Be prepared

All listed rental prices are weekly, if you go for a monthly payment the agent will work out the rate on the basis of a day rate. For example - Week rent / 7 * 365 / 12 = month rent.

Be prepared to pay more the nearer you are to the city and/or train links, or coastal see views.
Be prepared to be shocked at what some people will charge for a poor condition property.
Be prepared to walk away from a place if it’s too expensive or disgusting

Hire a car and if possible buy a GPS navigation system otherwise you will get lost and you will miss inspection times for properties. For cheap car rental look at Bayswaters on William Street, near Kings Cross.

Agents will open properties for 15 minutes for inspection; it’s up to you to get there. Usually inspections are held on Wednesdays and Saturdays. Alternative inspections can be arranged so be prepared to miss a few hours of work here and there.

If you find something you like, be prepared to fill in an application form, if you really want it, be prepared to pay (in cash) 1 weeks rent as a reservation fee.

If there are many applicants the agent/owners will pick what they believe is to be the best applicant.

Ask the agent about the owner, i.e. what sort of people do they want in their house. Some can be fussy and want families or professional couples only. It may be in your advantage to offer photos of your previous home which demonstrates cleanliness.

Be prepared to give references and provide copies of passport, driving licence, previous rental agreements, mortgage statements, bank accounts, even if these documents are from the UK. I would recommend a covering letter/reference from a solicitor in the UK.

Check the demographics of the area you are planning to stay in, use websites such as:

id dot com dot au
wikipedia dot com
answers dot com

Be prepared to look at around 15-20 properties before finding something.

Talk to agents; ask them if they have any properties coming up in the next few weeks which are not listed yet.

Use the websites:

domain dot com dot au
realestate dot com dot au
justlisted dot com dot au

It’s also worth looking at the agent sites as well.

99.9% of properties are unfurnished, what you will get is a cooker/oven/hob and usually dishwasher. No other domestic appliances. 

If the garden is high maintenance check to see if garden maintenance is included in the rental cost. 

If the property has a pool then check to see if pool maintenance is included in the rental cost. Pools must be fenced off if you have kids.

Don’t expect agents to call you if you leave a message, you are in control of the search; you need to make it happen.

If you need a garden for kids then avoid anything that mentions forecourt or courtyard. Most townhouses don’t have gardens only courtyards.

If you have kids then an enclosed garden is what you need however enclosed in the description of the property doesn’t necessarily mean anything, check for yourself by inspecting the property.

If you have kids and the house has a pool then you should check to see if the pool is fully enclosed by fence from the rest of the garden.

Agents will describe properties as cosy or quaint, what this means is small.
Tidy can mean anything. Light filled home can mean anything. Refurbished can mean new carpets and fresh paint, but be prepared as paint wont mask the smell of cats.
Pristine means very clean to immaculate. Outside laundry means outside laundry.
Low maintenance garden means a simple lawn or courtyard with shrubs.

If you go for an apartment, be practical check the stair case/elevators for how easy it will be to get your furniture delivered and/or taken upstairs.

If you have kids then you will want to check out the public schools and catchment areas, alternatively you may wish to check the private schools. There are many private schools but many have a religious affiliation, Catholic or Anglican, that sort of thing. If that’s your cup of tea be prepared to part with fees. For public schools there may be a payment required, depending on what type of visa you have.

Don’t be scared to get out on foot and have a wander around the area; locate the nearest shops, schools, hospitals, parks and transportation. If the property is located on a busy road, then that road will be very busy. 

Once you get a property, to arrange utilities (gas, electricity) and insurance cover for the property, be expected to answer the following questions:

Q: What type of hot water system is used, gas, electric, off peak 1 or 2? 
Q: Is the oven powered by gas or electricity?
Q: The stove/hob/top is powered by gas?
Q: As a tenant I will be arranging contents insurance, do I include the kitchen appliances as contents or are they already covered by the owners insurance.
Q: What year was the property built, approximate year would be fine?
Q: What is the construction of the walls, for example double brick, or brick veneer etc?
Q: What is the construction of the roof, for example concrete tiles, or slate tiles etc?
Q: What type of alarm is fitted, for example local, or back to base?
Q: Are deadlocks fitted to all external doors?
Q: Do the windows have internal locks fitted?

Connecting the basic utilities is not so stressful; the main providers tend to be AGL for Gas and Electric or Energy Australia for Electricity.

The largest telephone providers are Telstra and Optus, be prepared to accept that the service they provide may not be as good as BT back in the UK. 

To get broadband at home its best to shop around, there are quite few providers. Some appear better than others. It can also be expensive. When connecting it will usually mean a home install where they disconnect their competitors’ lines and replace it with their own connection.

They don’t all run through the same telephone lines here! It may mean drilling holes and installing sockets and boxes in your home. Many of the broadband deals have capped download limits. The broadband market is likely to change over the next while as Virgin has started to offer free internet if you take a land line with them. The main providers offer bundle options but the savings are not that great. 

For television, the 5 terrestrial stations broadcast analogue and digital broadcasts, including HD broadcasts. There is no free view. If you want cable or satellite digital TV then you don’t set your expectations too high. Foxtel is not as good as Sky; it has less channels and looks to be more expensive.

There are other providers but what you get is basically Foxtel at the end of the day. They have a Sky+ equivalent called IQ but it adds to the expense. Not all of the terrestrial stations are broadcast by Foxtel

There are options like subscribing to Eastern European satellite channels, and Sentanta which can be organised by installing your own satellite equipment.

Finally…

Use all the resources you can. 

Maps
Local newspapers many of which are free
Online websites
Don’t be scared to ask locals about areas
Seek the advice of any colleagues
If you bump into other expats, ask their view


Cheers
B


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## WitnessRelocation (Jan 12, 2008)

*Sydney Suburbs*

The above posts are fantastic with very accurate and useful information.

I have been searching around the Northern Beaches for a residence to lease during my 2-5 tenure here. Suffice to say, a colleague at work said to visit the Northern Beach suburbs during the day and spend the day/night there for an accurate picture of a suburb. We need to consider our two 'near' teenage children and schools/safety etc.

I visited Avalon beach after many positive recommendations and we enjoyed the place thoroughly. White beaches and fantastic proprietors throughout the shopping area and cafes. That was until the 'locals' got off from work and went out to wine and dine.

Last night my wife and I had dinner at an Italian Restaurant in Avalon which served immaculate food (and pizza). We were enjoying our meal and wine on the warm summer evening until a table of some very loud locals setup at a large table outdoors. 

This didn't phase us, we are use to loud people enjoying their meal and drinks. *What deterred us from 'ever' staying or recommending Avalon was with what happened next.* 

A large vehicle pulled up and was reversing into a parking space outside of where we were dining when a smaller Japanese car came in from the other side of the street and took his car space. I nearly saw them collide. The driver of the car that had his space taken approached the other driver and said he had nearly collided with him. He explained he had stopped and indicated he was occupying that space. The driver replied 'Well you are not a local then, nobody reverse parks here", where the other chap responded that the signs say "Front or Reverse to Kerb". 

Just then the table of 15-20 or so exploded into insults abusing the driver. However, not the driver of the small car who stole the space, they abused the driver of the large car! I was amazed. The small car driver did leave but he too abused the innocent driver where I heard him call him a twit and 'You are not a local' etc etc. 

When the rightful owner of the space went to reverse back into the space a more older man at the table of locals got his chair and sat in the car space while a drunken overweight woman continued abusing the driver. 

It was a disgraceful scene, especially when they all started telling the man to p1ss off, you are not a local etc. My wife thought the men in the group and the loud woman would assault the man by their actions  but I told her not to worry. They were victimising him as he was alone. It was disgraceful behaviour.

Amazingly the gentleman being abused responded civilly and explained himself but to no avail. He stood up for his rights and said he has nothing to be ashamed off when a bald 30'ish man started to insult him.. then another with tattoos threatened him  The lone individual then.... 'laughed at them all'! He obviously wasn't afraid or intimidated or aggressive... in fact his laughter somewhat diffused the situation. 

I though other people in the restaurant would have been more outspoken and assisted this man but in fact, I thought we would get abused also if we said anything to assist (especially with our accents)! 

Only some of that group continued to annoy the man. This group were all aged between 30 and 55 years! Disgusting behaviour and proud to call themselves locals. It convinced us not to live there. We started looking around at all the people on the streets. Locals!

The most amusing thing of the evening, which I will be writing home about was that a group of 20 motorbike riders arrived some 5 minutes later. Who did they come to meet but none other than this man who was being abused and victimised. The group of locals quickly dispersed and some went to smaller tables while others left the restaurant. 

The driver that was victimised didn't seek revenge or start trouble and was a good upstanding character. Funny when the tables are turned. I never told my wife I secretly desired to see them teach this group of uncivil morons a lesson.

So that said, what other Northern Beach suburbs would you recommend without this 'Locals Only' attitude? Manly was nice but far too much activity. We are seeking the quiet beach lifestyle if that exists.

The all new 'Anti-Avalon Locals Movement'


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

WitnessRelocation said:


> IThis didn't phase us, we are use to loud people enjoying their meal and drinks. *What deterred us from 'ever' staying or recommending Avalon was with what happened next.*


Terrible story, and I would have loved to have seen their faces when the bikers turned up 

But I guess you get groups of people like this in any locality so I'm not sure it should put you off completely, unless of course you have seen stuff like this happening before


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## WitnessRelocation (Jan 12, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Terrible story, and I would have loved to have seen their faces when the bikers turned up
> 
> But I guess you get groups of people like this in any locality so I'm not sure it should put you off completely, unless of course you have seen stuff like this happening before



I guess that last part was why I posted this as it was brilliant to witness. What you see when you don't have a video camera!! I wrote to relatives and friends about it. They weren't bikies as such but bikers (sports bike riders) but they looked tough enough and they behaved well and were enjoying their meals with some innocent fun that bothered no-one. 

Yes, you are right as it can happen anywhere. I guess anyone reading this should not take it personally as the area is beautiful. Don't let a small bunch ruin it as surely not all locals are like this. It was terrible behaviour of a few and other people in the restaurant commented later on how bad these people behaved. I guess I did post this a little early to vent as the experienced played on my mind a bit. I was that angry I even posted this on a couple of forums. A couple that we met there from were house hunting also and he travels extensively so we exchanged email addresses and such and compared accounts of what happened. 

There was one gentleman there that said he has seen it many times before and said there is an element in Avalon that are feral etc. He was a local. He said not all are like that as most are well educated professionals and retirees. that live in the area.


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## Dublin Lady (Jan 19, 2008)

*G'd Day from Sydney*

Hi

Just read your story re Avalon restaurant incident - not good at all! However I have to say that I lived on the Northern Beaches for the last 18 years and I have never witnessed an incident remotely like that one. If you go to Manly on on Saturday night, yes you will see a gathering of drunking louts however fast rule you don't go there if you can possibly avoid it.

Avalon is considered to be one of jewels of the northern beaches (I should reiterate I don't live there due to affordability factor so I'm not rallying for my home burb). Simply speaking, these incidents can occur anywhere however it is not the typical and I'm speaking with 18 years experience of these parts.

D


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## WitnessRelocation (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. I went back to Avalon on Friday night at my friend's insistence where we had a great time out (although raining off and on). Even saw the a group of motorbike riders at Lucky's Pizzeria again... they didn't look like the same crowd of riders so I guess it is a popular destination for them.

I checked Seaforth out on the Middle Harbour side and must say, spectacular!


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## MedicRob (Jan 8, 2008)

*Some More Questions*

Thanks to all who have been giving me some great advice. As I begin to work on my budget more questions come up -

1) In the Sydney area, how much will monthly utilities be for a 3-4 bedroom home. Gas, Water, Elecricity

2) What is the best Mobile carrier to use, and how are the plans?

3) How much does vehicle registration, insurance, gas, cost?

Thanks all! Rob


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## kaz101 (Nov 29, 2007)

MedicRob said:


> Thanks to all who have been giving me some great advice. As I begin to work on my budget more questions come up -
> 
> 1) In the Sydney area, how much will monthly utilities be for a 3-4 bedroom home. Gas, Water, Elecricity
> 
> ...


1) Cant' help for Sydney but you've probably seen my costs for South Australia which is a 4 bedroom house, with downstairs annex. 

2) How do you define 'best'? If you google (Google) mobile service providers there are loads of them and a few comparison sites too.

3) That may depend on the State. Basic insurance comes as part of the vehicle registration. Petrol (gas) is A$1.39 per litre for unleaded and quite a bit more for diesel as of yesterday when I filled up.

Regards,
Karen


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