# Advice on buying used car from dealer?



## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

I want to buy a used car (Audi A3) and have found a few I like online. 

I have only been in Spain for a couple of months so I don't have the nerves to attempt a private buy. Instead I have focused on cars from dealers that offer to do the "transferencia" + offer a year's guarantee.

So far so good.

The car I am most interested in is at a dealer 9 hours from where we live. But the dealer replied to my email that if I buy the car, they are happy to deliver it at my door. Sounds good.

So I am planning to drive up there next week to view it. 

Now, what if I like it and want to buy it? How does it work? I have googled and found some information but am still a little unsure.

Should I pay then and there? Or ask for an invoice that I will pay via bank transfer later? Can you generally trust car dealers to perform the transferenica and deliver the car? Do I need to do anything except provide the dealer with my NIE-number and some cash? They generally take care of absolutely everything? And what about insurance? I am guessing that has to be sorted before I drive the car, but is there an overlap where the car's existing insurance will cover while I get the new insurance set up?

Would be very happy with some advice from more seasoned expats who have been through it.

Thanks,


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

anderso said:


> I want to buy a used car (Audi A3) and have found a few I like online.
> 
> I have only been in Spain for a couple of months so I don't have the nerves to attempt a private buy. Instead I have focused on cars from dealers that offer to do the "transferencia" + offer a year's guarantee.
> 
> ...


I bought from a small dealer and he handled the transfer for me. I paid him up front of course, because they arent going to to the transfer unless they know you are serious about the purchase. If it is a genuine audi dealer, then I doubt if they are going to mess you about because then you could of course complain to audi and they would risk their dealership


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> I bought from a small dealer and he handled the transfer for me. I paid him up front of course, because they arent going to to the transfer unless they know you are serious about the purchase. If it is a genuine audi dealer, then I doubt if they are going to mess you about because then you could of course complain to audi and they would risk their dealership


Sorry, I should add that you should gain insurance cover before collecting, as usual

Your "car tax2 reminder, when it expires will be sent to you, being the new owner. The tax on there is valid

In the valencia region we had to take passport, NIE, residencia and an up to date padron in order for them to get the car registered in our name. Some people will tell you that you dont need a padron, but we were specifically told we needed it before they would be able to register


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

Most dealers will be able to arrange insurance as well (if they deliver to you - nothing to worry, you can do it yourself online via linea directa) and they will tell you what documents you need (passport copy, NIE copy, residencia/padron/rental contract copy) for the transferencia. I doubt that there will be an insurance policy running on it right now, this would be more likely for a private sale. Insurance in Spain is on the car and mostly covers all drivers over a certain age range (check the certificate!). Organising insurance is not a big deal and can be quickly done.

If you like the car, most serious dealers will want a deposit and then payment on delivery. I doubt they will accept bank transfer via invoice after delivery, so depending on the price it will be cash / credit card / cheque. Do not pay the full price before you have a sale contract AND a"Justificante" of a gestoria in your hand, this is a legal document valid for 60 days that acts as prove that the car is being transferred into your name (which can take 2-12 weeks).


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

The only concern I would have would be A) the delivery & B) what happens if you have a problem & need guarantee work ? 9 hrs is a long way unless you can use a local audi dealer.
Having experienced a car (a friends fortunately ) being 'delivered' in the UK & seeing it appear over the brow of a hill, in excess of 100mph & airborne I would have reservations. A 9 hr trip in a vehicle that is now registered in your name means any infractions, speeding etc ; will be laid at your door.You also have no idea how it's going to be driven.


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks to everybody! I have a follow up:

I do not have a residencia nor a padron. The thing is that I own and run a small internet based company and have stationed myself (+wife and daughter) in Spain indefinitely. This means that I do not pay Spanish tax. This is all pretty standard EU stuff. Because I am "stationed" here, health care for the whole family is paid for by Denmark for up to 3 years and I still pay my taxes in Denmark - not Spain.

Will this cause problems in terms of getting the residencia (and padron)? I do have my NIE number and a long term rental contract. 

I am quite happy with avoiding complex double-taxation issues by not registering with public offices more than I absolutely need to. If I start the whole residencia/padron registration I see problems up ahead. 

But maybe I am wrong?

By the way, I live in Valencia, so it sounds like I will also need the padron (hadn't heard of it before today ...)


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

anderso said:


> Thanks to everybody! I have a follow up:
> 
> I do not have a residencia nor a padron. The thing is that I own and run a small internet based company and have stationed myself (+wife and daughter) in Spain indefinitely. This means that I do not pay Spanish tax. This is all pretty standard EU stuff. Because I am "stationed" here, health care for the whole family is paid for by Denmark for up to 3 years and I still pay my taxes in Denmark - not Spain.
> 
> ...


So you say you are living all year round in Spain and don't pay taxes? Better not tell the tax man. And how does the whole health care work? Without residencia / padron you cant register with the local doctors. I have my doubts that this is all legal. Hope your health care is sorted in case something happens, european health insurance cards are for emergency treatment only. You are considered a resident in Spain if living more than 183 days in the country. In the future you might run into trouble without a residencia (doctors, buying car, school). But not the topic of this post, so let's see:

Well officially you can not transfer ownership of a car without padrón. Lately more and more people are reporting that they even need a residencia certificate. You probably read about the problems obtaining residencia now. So getting a residencia cert might be difficult for you (needs prove of income and health insurance).

Saying all that there is still a chance that you can use your rental contract, with passport copy and NIE. All this depends on the local trafico office and more importantly the gestor that is used to do the transfer, so before you commit to buy a car make sure the dealer's gestoria accepts the rental contract!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

anderso said:


> Thanks to everybody! I have a follow up:
> 
> I do not have a residencia nor a padron. The thing is that I own and run a small internet based company and have stationed myself (+wife and daughter) in Spain indefinitely. This means that I do not pay Spanish tax. This is all pretty standard EU stuff. Because I am "stationed" here, health care for the whole family is paid for by Denmark for up to 3 years and I still pay my taxes in Denmark - not Spain.
> 
> ...


The padron shouldn't be problem , you should just need a rental contract . ( I assume you haven't bought ?) This is enough here in Murcia, along with your passport , to purchase a vehicle.
Unfortunately , due to this law that they are attempting to modify ,it is possible that they will ask for a certificate of registration on the 'registro ciudado de la union europa'.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

As far as I know .........
You will be unable to pay the registration tax due on the car unless you have a Spanish Tax number (so I was told by the local Gestor)

Anderso have you spoken to www.assanchis (dot) com who are based in Valencia & have a very good service into traffico and anything else you need.


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

To the best of my knowledge my setup is perfectly legal. The EU has allowed this kind of "stationing" to make it easy for EU citizens to temporarily work for their companies in other EU countries. All 3 of us have EU health insurance cards along with a signed and stamped certificate that health expenses are covered by the Danish state. Denmark allows this for up to 3 years. After that it's either go back home or start paying your tax in Spain. So I am assuming Spain is ok with this as we are in the EU together. I hope I am right. 

The Spanish tax number? Isn't that identical to my NIE? 

Sounds like I can get my padron without any major issues. Think I will try that.

Apart from that, I guess I need to let the dealer know exactly what documentation I have and ask if that is enough.

Haven't talked to Assanchis. Do they speak English?

Thanks to everybody again ...!


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Yes I guess a member of staff will, but if not the office here in our village has a good English speaker (Ricardo)


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

anderso said:


> To the best of my knowledge my setup is perfectly legal. The EU has allowed this kind of "stationing" to make it easy for EU citizens to temporarily work for their companies in other EU countries. All 3 of us have EU health insurance cards along with a signed and stamped certificate that health expenses are covered by the Danish state. Denmark allows this for up to 3 years. After that it's either go back home or start paying your tax in Spain. So I am assuming Spain is ok with this as we are in the EU together. I hope I am right.
> 
> The Spanish tax number? Isn't that identical to my NIE?
> 
> ...


Yes , the NIE is the tax number. If you apply for a padron & are asked for your registration certificate , applying for one sholudn't be a problem as you already have an nie, you can prove you live here & the Danish letter stating that they will pay all health charges should cover you under the new 'rules' ,; whatever they are ! 
Start with the padron, you should be able to buy with that only but check with the dealer what he requires. 
Let us know how you get on regarding padron /registration cert. as no one appears to be beinggiven the same info & a 1st hand account would be helpful !


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

gus-lopez said:


> Yes , the NIE is the tax number. If you apply for a padron & are asked for your registration certificate , applying for one sholudn't be a problem as you already have an nie, you can prove you live here & the Danish letter stating that they will pay all health charges should cover you under the new 'rules' ,; whatever they are !
> Start with the padron, you should be able to buy with that only but check with the dealer what he requires.
> Let us know how you get on regarding padron /registration cert. as no one appears to be beinggiven the same info & a 1st hand account would be helpful !


Thanks a lot. I will update you on my progress. First step is the ajuntament for the padron tomorrow then hopefully later in the week I will be on my way to buy a car.


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

anderso said:


> Thanks a lot. I will update you on my progress. First step is the ajuntament for the padron tomorrow then hopefully later in the week I will be on my way to buy a car.


As promised an update:

Getting our padrons today was an abolute breeze. We needed to queue for about 2 minutes and then needed to present one copy of:

Passports
Our NIE certificates
Our rental contract
(+ the birth certificate of our 3-year old daughter)

Another 5 minutes of waiting for a little keyboard tapping, and we emerged from the city hall with our signed and stamped padrons. It was a beautiful thing 

Will update again when I have news about the car buying.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

A note regarding the padron. We are having a car transferred into our names but have been told that we do need copies of everything (NIE, passports, driving licences, make and model number of our loo seats etc etc) but that the padron certificate cannot be more then 3 months old!!! Anyone come across this before??


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

thrax said:


> A note regarding the padron. We are having a car transferred into our names but have been told that we do need copies of everything (NIE, passports, driving licences, make and model number of our loo seats etc etc) but that the padron certificate cannot be more then 3 months old!!! Anyone come across this before??


Yes this gets requested quite regularly. The padrón is used to varify your address and the receiving party wants to make sure it's up to date. It's not a biggy to get an up to date one from the local Ayuntamiento, just a pain in the butt :s


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## thiswildride (Feb 3, 2011)

this thread is great and perfectly timed for us. 

Can anyone recommend a car dealer anywhere in Valencia Communidad? We're moving soon and need to buy a car. 

We're looking for a subcompact, no particular make. Any ideas on who we can go to in or around the cities below? tips on buying? how the system works or registration, insurance, etc? 

We'll be near Alicante, Valencia and Castellon de la Plana area in a couple of weeks. 

Thanks for your advice.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thiswildride said:


> this thread is great and perfectly timed for us.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a car dealer anywhere in Valencia Communidad? We're moving soon and need to buy a car.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

if you have a look at the 'forms, education, driving etc etc.............' thread which is 'stuck' above, you'll find lots of info, links & threads about cars & buying them. 

hopefully someone will be able to recommend a local dealer for you

one thing has very recently changed from the info in the driving thread though, in that to transfer ownership you now have to show your 'resident certificate' if an EU citizen, or 'resident card' as a non-EU citizen

I see from your post last November that you were working on getting retirement visas? Would you mind telling us how you actually managed to get them? 

we get so many US citizens asking visa advice & there is so little concrete info available  & so few people actually seem to manage to get a retirement visa.....


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## thiswildride (Feb 3, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> if you have a look at the 'forms, education, driving etc etc.............' thread which is 'stuck' above, you'll find lots of info, links & threads about cars & buying them.


Thank you for the tip. I couldn't seem to come up with anything. I'll go there now. 

Also, I headed over to the retirement visa thread and updated. :clap2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thiswildride said:


> Thank you for the tip. I couldn't seem to come up with anything. I'll go there now.
> 
> Also, I headed over to the retirement visa thread and updated. :clap2:


thanks, I've just seen it


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

Update on car buying:

I had a very long drive yesterday. From Valencia via Madrid to Oviedo and back again in one day. A bit tired this morning.

Thankfully the trip was not invain. I liked the car and will now have a think about it for a day or two. The process of buying I agreed with the dealer was this:

- We make out a contract and I pay 10% of the price via bank transfer.
- They make the initial steps for the "transferencia"
- They deliver the car to me here in Valencia and I pay the remaining 90% on a bank cheque to the guy who turns up with it. I also get the "provisional" papers, so I can drive the car straight away. 
- The dealer finalises the transferencia. 

Sounds alright to me!? It was a fairly large dealer with everything from Fords to Lamborghinis. 

Now, for documentation to make the transferencia the dealer asked me to produce a copy of:

NIE
Padrón
Passport

That's it. No "residencia" which makes things easier for me as I don't have it. 

Will update ...


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

anderso said:


> Update on car buying:
> 
> I had a very long drive yesterday. From Valencia via Madrid to Oviedo and back again in one day. A bit tired this morning.
> 
> ...


Sounds very good  Hope you have fun with your new car :clap2:


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

Alright, time for an update.

In the end I changed my mind about what model car I wanted to buy, and I hit the road again to have a look at a couple. 


BAD EXPERIENCE:

A dealer had advertised on coches.net that a certain car was here in Valencia so I went out to have a look at it. It turned out the car wasn't here. It was in the dealer's Madrid shop.

I was a bit annoyed with this but as I was also very interested in the car, I accepted an offer of paying 500 Euro for a "reserva". The dealer, who seemed like a decent chap, would then have the car driven from Madrid to Valencia and I could have a look at it. If I didn't like it, 350 Euro would be returned to me.

Now, I have been around the block a couple of times, so I made sure it was clearly written on the receipt that 350 Euro would be returned to me if I didn't like the car. No other conditions. 

2 days later and the car arrived. Turned out I didn't like it. It looked good but on closer inspection there were a couple of worrying signs. Didn't like the new salesman either. Wouldn't buy a mint chocolate from him, let alone a car. So the next day I sent him an email saying thanks but no thanks and I would drop by the next day to collect my 350.

Swift reply from the salesman: Nothing would be returned to me as there was nothing wrong the car. He also made sure to "thank me for wasting his time"!! 

I proceeded to email him a scan of the receipt, clearly proving that I was entitled to my 350 Euro, but his reply was that he could "waste no more time on this and I could talk to a lawyer if I had more to say."

!

So I have now sent an email to the English speaking lawyer that helped me with my rental contract, asking her to assist me.

I should add that this dealer is the /SNIP/ that has branches in Valencia and Madrid. Stay well clear of them.


GOOD EXPERIENCE

I have found another car that is a better deal, and this dealer has offered to have all the minor issues that were discussed fixed + sort out the transferencia with no down payment. I will simply pay on delivery when I am handed keys, contract and paperwork. 

The dealer offered this when I protested to paying a deposit without a signed contract. In the dealer's words, a signed contract would mean that the car was mine, so it wouldn't be possible to sign a contract with just a deposit. On the other hand, I was not open to paying 10% without something solid on paper.

It all seems quite difficult here. How are you supposed to make a deal? 

This particular dealer seemingly solved the problem with his offer of pay-on-delivery and I have accepted. Although I remain sceptical after experience #1.

Will update again ... delivery of car is due end of next week.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sounds a right nightmare

sorry, however, we don't allow 'naming & shaming' on the forum for legal reasons


I guess if anyone wants to know the name of this company they could PM you though................


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

anderso said:


> Alright, time for an update.
> 
> In the end I changed my mind about what model car I wanted to buy, and I hit the road again to have a look at a couple.
> 
> ...


Not having a lot of luck mate, so lets hope this deal pans out.
Plan B ........
Take the train to Xativa & I will meet you and we can tour the dealers there (most makes) and a number of Independents. I used to be in the trade and know my way around a vehicle.


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks, Brian. I may just take you up on that, especially if I see an interesting car in the area. Car buying sure isn't simple for the novice expat, so could use some help. Let's see what happens end of this week ...


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## Pearls (May 25, 2012)

I have only scanned this thread but I have not noticed anywhere where it says take particular care if purchasing a second-hand car. I can only assume that the mainland is the same as the Canaries and if so you may find that you have also acquired debts along with the vehicle. If the previous owner has any fines they stay with the car and not the owner, if these have not been paid they will also include interest.


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## jpvanheist (May 29, 2012)

We purchased a car 4 years ago in Murcia, all we had was a NIE nr. and a pasport. we have a property in in Murcia, we do not live 183 days a year in Spain, and i receive my tax form to pay each year. No problem.


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> sounds a right nightmare
> 
> sorry, however, we don't allow 'naming & shaming' on the forum for legal reasons
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity I would really like to know a bit more about the legal reasons for not allowing the naming of companies. Is this a special Spanish law? 

On the internet there are several review sites where people absolutely hack to pieces companies they don't approve of because of bad experiences with them. There are probably millions of these reviews out there.

Is it really illegal to write bad online reviews in Spain?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

anderso said:


> Out of curiosity I would really like to know a bit more about the legal reasons for not allowing the naming of companies. Is this a special Spanish law?
> 
> On the internet there are several review sites where people absolutely hack to pieces companies they don't approve of because of bad experiences with them. There are probably millions of these reviews out there.
> 
> Is it really illegal to write bad online reviews in Spain?


 Naming and shaming leaves the forum open to litigation from the said companies. As by law they would have the right to reply and then it becomes a battle ground and stupid!

Also if we allowed it, we would undoubtedly get competing companies posting derogatory and untrue comments about their competitors....... And for that reason alone, I personally would take any comments from review sites with a pinch of salt! 

Jo xxx


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

jojo said:


> Naming and shaming leaves the forum open to litigation from the said companies. As by law they would have the right to reply and then it becomes a battle ground and stupid!
> 
> Also if we allowed it, we would undoubtedly get competing companies posting derogatory and untrue comments about their competitors....... And for that reason alone, I personally would take any comments from review sites with a pinch of salt!
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks for the clarification! I absolutely agree that comments from review sites should be taken with lots of salt, but as long as you do that, they are an invaluable weapon to bring into the daily battle of figuring out what is and what is not.

With just a little "training", it is not so hard to see what reviews are "real". It can usually be determined from the wording and from the general consensus if there are many reviews on a particular product/seller. 

It would be a shame not to name and shame those worthy of being named and shamed, I think. It's a way of making society a little better, a little more transparent.

Anders


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

An update about my car buying endeavours. First a bit of drama:

Maybe it's something I inhertied from my mother but it touches me quite deeply when people cheat other people. I really hate dishonesty.

So, having failed to find good online places to name and shame the car dealer that owes me 350 Euro, I came up with this solution that went online today:

Link to website I made

Only took a couple of hours. After publishing it, I was kind enough to send the link to the car dealer in question. His response was the following:

"Ten cuidado a ver si alguien se va a enterar donde vivies tu y tu familia y va a ir a partirte la cara."

Now, me Spanish is still very weak, but Google Translate tells me that in English this sentence would go something like this: 

"Watch to see if anyone will know where you and your family lives and is going to break your face."

Naturally I am somewhat shaken that he is actually threating me, my wife, and my daughter and I have forwared the emails onto my lawyer and will later today talk with the police.

Secondly, the other car I have been writing about is going a lot better. I have paid a 500 euro down payment and the dealer is being quite informative, telling me that they are now fixing the little issues that were discussed and the car should be at my door step tomorrow evening. I will then pay with a banque cheque if everything is as agreed.

More updates coming.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

anderso said:


> An update about my car buying endeavours. First a bit of drama:
> 
> Maybe it's something I inhertied from my mother but it touches me quite deeply when people cheat other people. I really hate dishonesty.
> 
> ...


:clap2:

make a complaint to this lot;Oficina Municipal De Informacion Al Consumidor. (OMIC) Google


It doesn't cost anything & will obtain results. First you should return & ask for the' 
'hojas de reclamación' ( complaint forms ) .If you don't want to do his OMIC should understand when shown the threatening e-mail.If you do go to ask for them & they say they don't have any, refuse,say they don't know what you are talking about, ring the Policía local immediately. Explain the situation & ask for them to attend. 

It is a criminal offence to refuse to give out the forms or not to have them on the premises. The policía local will shut them down on the spot.

Go to a guardia civil station & make a complaint ( denuncía) to the effect that they have commited fraud/theft on the grounds of failing to return the amount as specified & detailed on the factura. 

At both the above file an additional denuncía over the e-mail threat. 


Ensure that you have many copies of the relevant factura & e-mail.

I would also complain by e-mail to the MD at head office , Madrid , with copies of factura , & threatening e-mail.

This should ensure that you receive your money back without cost to you.


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## anderso (Jan 5, 2012)

Thank you very much for this great information. 

Do you know if there is a web site where it is possible to find names and contact details of MDs?


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