# How SAFE is Australia for expats?



## cross (May 29, 2010)

Dear freinds,
I am a regular follower of this forum and one of those many who have been immensely helped by the info it has.
But some info also affects you as u read (in a negative way)...One of those is a recent posts where native Australian speaks of how unsafe Australia is of late.
I will be moving to Australia soon with my wife and child and such news is disturbing to some extent. Outsiders being attacked "not for Money---but for looking at them" is really frightening.
SO my freinds,
Is Australia different if u r not a white person??
I hope to read from senior non-Indian expats too please!
Is the anger focused on a particular Asian community??


----------



## Sam James (Oct 13, 2010)

Seems like there's been some serious violence:

Brutal truth about attacks



> Indian students are being attacked in Australia, with at least 100 incidents in Melbourne and Sydney during the past year. The violence is undeniable, the targeting of Indians is undeniable, and the problem is unacceptable and embarrassing.





> The attacks on Indians have followed this pattern, with the crimes committed by a polyglot mix reflecting the streets - white, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal, Pacific Islander.


Harris Park - tensions in a racial melting pot | The Daily Telegraph

Indians rally as suburb seethes

Harris Park violence 'going on for years'



> Street thugs in Harris Park, in Sydney's west, were violently attacking elderly white women for a number of years before shifting their focus to Indians, says a NSW politician who raised the problem of violence in the suburb in State Parliament two years ago.



Seems like it is localized to Sydney and Melbourne, is located in specific neighborhoods and is not being perpetrated by any particular other race, but each time a different one, with Lebanese being the racial group heard most often. There is some racial targeting, but it is largely street violence, plain and simple.

As with all cities, I think there are neighborhoods you want to steer clear of.


----------



## Dolly (Feb 17, 2008)

In all fairness, those reports were June last year, so not recent.

Dolly


----------



## Sam James (Oct 13, 2010)

True, Dolly, but I think the lesson is not the racial targeting, but that there are dangerous areas in all big cities, and that those areas are likely to still be dangerous today. It is the street violence, more than racial violence, that was the driving force.

And in all fairness, it's not like white women have not been targeted in the past as well. Again, hopefully all old stories not to be repeated again.


Sydney gang rapes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ashfield gang rapes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




> Is Australia different if u r not a white person??


 - The neighborhood you're in matters. Don't hang out in the bad parts of town.



> Is the anger focused on a particular Asian community??


 Kind of, but not really. Nor is it coming from a particular community.


----------



## Aussiejock (May 26, 2007)

This is very old news. The worst attacks on Indians were commited by other Indians. The others were commited late at night, mainly on students travelling by themselves, where laptops, mobile phones etc were stolen. No one with any commonsense travels alone at night in any city in the world. Australia is a safe place for anyone but like all countries there are places it's better not to go to at night.


----------



## cross (May 29, 2010)

Thanx for the replies.
But yes..there are some streets which are better to avoid .No city is immune to street crimes but if the public is aware i think the incidences can be reduced.
I agree traveling with laptops and other valuables during odd hours is stupidity....but the point here is that the crimes committed(however old news it is) were found to have no "motive of theft". 
Well...i would like to hear some piece of advice to new entrants like me ...on some precautions to live safe and happy.


----------



## All good (Feb 27, 2010)

*...*

Well, if we are going to get technical, most of the major attacks in Aus on Indians have been by other Indians. So to answer your question, yes, it is reasonably safe for Indians, just be wary of the Indians over here.

Also be aware, Aussies do not refer to Indians as Asian, this is a british thing. If you class yourself as Asian, the Asians may take offence (you may think I am joking but I'm not), and trust me you don't want to offend Asians.


----------



## Aussiejock (May 26, 2007)

cross said:


> Thanx for the replies.
> But yes..there are some streets which are better to avoid .No city is immune to street crimes but if the public is aware i think the incidences can be reduced.
> I agree traveling with laptops and other valuables during odd hours is stupidity....but the point here is that the crimes committed(however old news it is) were found to have no "motive of theft". Well...i would like to hear some piece of advice to new entrants like me ...on some precautions to live safe and happy.


As already stated those were committed by Indians on Indians. The only precaution you need to take is to use your commonsense.


----------



## cross (May 29, 2010)

*If you class yourself as Asian, the Asians may take offence (you may think I am joking but I'm not), and trust me you don't want to offend Asians*

I am sure what your intent is....but why stop it at that.
Can you elaborate what Indians should call themselves as in "Aussie standards"?
I always thought Asians are everyone who originate from Asia


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cross said:


> *If you class yourself as Asian, the Asians may take offence (you may think I am joking but I'm not), and trust me you don't want to offend Asians*
> 
> I am sure what your intent is....but why stop it at that.
> Can you elaborate what Indians should call themselves as in "Aussie standards"?
> I always thought Asians are everyone who originate from Asia


We're all foreign when we go and live in another country!

Jo


----------



## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

cross said:


> *If you class yourself as Asian, the Asians may take offence (you may think I am joking but I'm not), and trust me you don't want to offend Asians*
> 
> I am sure what your intent is....but why stop it at that.
> Can you elaborate what Indians should call themselves as in "Aussie standards"?
> I always thought Asians are everyone who originate from Asia


Indians aren't regarded as Asian in Aus.


----------



## All good (Feb 27, 2010)

*...*



cross said:


> *If you class yourself as Asian, the Asians may take offence (you may think I am joking but I'm not), and trust me you don't want to offend Asians*
> 
> I am sure what your intent is....but why stop it at that.
> Can you elaborate what Indians should call themselves as in "Aussie standards"?
> I always thought Asians are everyone who originate from Asia


We call Indians...........Indians believe it or not. Asians are any people from Southeast Asia, China, Japan or Korea. 

To elaborate, when I was growing up, I grew up in a very multicultural area, and we had a couple of Indian students move to our school. The Indians made friends with the Aussies, and it was the Vietnamese who made fun of a bashed the Indians. You wont find friends amongst the other minorities just because you are a minority.

I understand it's hard for Indians to understand this because you don't have the cultural diversity in such great numbers as we do. But please be aware, we are a very multicultural society, so when you come here, your not special, your just another face in the crowd. You wont be given special attention, you wont be protected, you will be the same as eveyone else. So to answer your original question again of is Australia safe? It's as safe as you want to make it, if you choose to catch trains at 2:00 on a weekday morning or walk home from work at 2:00 in the morning, then no it's not safe. But it's not safe for anyone to do that.


----------



## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

True, Asia is broken in half. Everyone West of China is referred to by country designations (Indians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshi, Lebanese, Arabs). Everyone East of India is 'Asian'.

***
I think in the UK Asians are people from the subcontinent but not sure if that also refers to people in Asian living East of the subcontinent.

I think the reason for this is that there were two waves of Asian migration to Australia.

Alot from Southeast Asia in the 70s (Vietnamese primarily) and the present where the large influx is from the Indian subcontinent. So the older waves are the 'Asians' and the newer ones are the country-name ones.




All good said:


> We call Indians...........Indians believe it or not. Asians are any people from Southeast Asia, China, Japan or Korea.
> 
> To elaborate, when I was growing up, I grew up in a very multicultural area, and we had a couple of Indian students move to our school. The Indians made friends with the Aussies, and it was the Vietnamese who made fun of a bashed the Indians. You wont find friends amongst the other minorities just because you are a minority.
> 
> I understand it's hard for Indians to understand this because you don't have the cultural diversity in such great numbers as we do. But please be aware, we are a very multicultural society, so when you come here, your not special, your just another face in the crowd. You wont be given special attention, you wont be protected, you will be the same as eveyone else. So to answer your original question again of is Australia safe? It's as safe as you want to make it, if you choose to catch trains at 2:00 on a weekday morning or walk home from work at 2:00 in the morning, then no it's not safe. But it's not safe for anyone to do that.


----------



## Dolly (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm from the UK and we call Indian people Asian. Don't know why, that's just the way it is.

Dolly


----------



## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

I suspect its because the Indian subcontinent was the first wave of Asians living in the UK, and oriental and southeast Asians came later.



Dolly said:


> I'm from the UK and we call Indian people Asian. Don't know why, that's just the way it is.
> 
> Dolly


----------



## cross (May 29, 2010)

Thanx everybody.
I accept my ignorance about this controversy about who is Asian and who is'nt??
But i go with the majority view in the place i live in....no issues with that.
"All good"....i appreciate your advice . 
But whatever it is...i have decided to spend some time of my life in Australia and i am sure it would be a lovely phase of life there.


----------



## Aussie_student (Oct 28, 2010)

All of this very much depends on where you are. Whilst I am a caucasian male, I have never ever felt unsafe in Canberra, Melbourne or Sydney. Alot of it boils down to common sense. Walking through dodgy parts of town and night is the easiest way to attract trouble. But to be sure, there are dangers, but as an Australian I can confidently say that the vast majority will welcome all migrants.
Hope you decide to come!


----------



## frozenchosen (Nov 1, 2010)

*Be Street Smart*

Crime is a reality and alive and well in any country. People need to be street smart. e.g. if you are out walking by yourself late at night the chances of getting mugged increase. If you dress differently, wear expensive jewellery, your inviting attention. If your in an area where there is likely to be trouble, then you will run in to it. The list goes on...

Indian students may have made headlines, but the same thing can happen to anyone.

I have lived here for a while and not run into any trouble, however I am aware of my own personal safety and act accordingly to reduce the chance of becoming a victim.


----------



## rackspace (Dec 13, 2009)

For most people coming from my country ... mugging is last thing to worry about ... they would just be happy to escape suicide bombers ...


----------



## Kate from Oz (Oct 31, 2010)

I was born and raised in Australia, and have lived most of my life in QLD.

I've heard about 'attacks on Indians' in Melbourne a few months back that was really beat up in the press. I still don't know if this was an actual targeting of a particular race or not. I seem to remember reading the police comment that they didn't believe it was race related and then reading something else from the Indian community feeling that it was.

I can't speak for Melbourne because I haven't visited it for a while now but there certainly isn't that same feel in Brisbane. 

As someone said, there are good and bad parts of any country.

Does that mean you will be beat up in the street for simply looking sideways at someone? I highly doubt it. It's generally quite safe and I think most Australian's are quite welcoming. Australia has quite a mish mash of cultures and races.

Through my job I've had quite a bit to do with Indians & Asian's moving to Australia and they've absolutely loved it.


----------



## Johnfromoz (Oct 20, 2010)

Aussie_student said:


> All of this very much depends on where you are. Whilst I am a caucasian male, I have never ever felt unsafe in Canberra, Melbourne or Sydney. Alot of it boils down to common sense. Walking through dodgy parts of town and night is the easiest way to attract trouble. But to be sure, there are dangers, but as an Australian I can confidently say that the vast majority will welcome all migrants.
> Hope you decide to come!


I totally agree. It is best to avoid ethnic suburbs like Lakemba, Punchbowl, Campsie, Auburn and Redfern in Sydney. In the western suburbs, areas around Mount Druitt and some suburbs around Cambelltown are not safe at night.


----------



## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

*living in australia*



jojo said:


> We're all foreign when we go and live in another country!
> 
> Jo


The migration officer in London said: "Don't go to Ausralia if you value your sanity"

I arrived in Dec 1975 and persevered for 35 years, I am a Southern European, socially it is very easy to mix with aussies but beware of the following:

. They don't like competition at work and will stub your in the back at the first opportunity and it wont be long before you're out of work and given a bad reputation which will make it impossible to find work again, all employment agents in Australia keep tabs on you on their databases and if you are given a bad reference (right or wrong) you'll spend many months on the doll.

. Aussie neighbours react in much the same way, petty jealousy abounds, they first make comments like "it's not what you know, but who you know that counts" and "I can please myself who I talk to", it doesn't take long before their kids start to vandalise and steal from your property, the only way I have found to deal with the "maggots" amongst them is to call CrimeStoppers when you catch them pedling or using drugs.

A good place to live in Australia is Hervey Bay in Queensland.
Stir clear of the following towns, Blacktown NSW, Blackbutt Qld, Murgon Qld.

For more details see my report on [removed by moderator since advertising own information - people can get in contact with you through this post ]


----------



## Kate from Oz (Oct 31, 2010)

pr2jd2b said:


> . They don't like competition at work and will stub your in the back at the first opportunity and it wont be long before you're out of work and given a bad reputation which will make it impossible to find work again, all employment agents in Australia keep tabs on you on their databases and if you are given a bad reference (right or wrong) you'll spend many months on the doll.
> 
> . Aussie neighbours react in much the same way, petty jealousy abounds, they first make comments like "it's not what you know, but who you know that counts" and "I can please myself who I talk to", it doesn't take long before their kids start to vandalise and steal from your property, the only way I have found to deal with the "maggots" amongst them is to call CrimeStoppers when you catch them pedling or using drugs.
> 
> ...


My experience is that competition in the workplace is fine provided you know how to play the politics. If you can do your job efficiently and get along with your colleagues at the same time then you will generally be held in high regard.

Have never in over 40 years experienced the issues you've described with my neighbours and I've moved quite a bit and lived in a number of towns, cities and states. You do get your good and bad areas in any country and I guess making sure you pick an area that has a good reputation is a start.

As for the employment agencies. They do not have a linked database across all companies. Yes, if you do the wrong thing by one then it will generally be entered into that particular companies system. If you don't do the wrong thing per se but you don't fit their critieria, you may also be deemed unstuitable for the type of work they have on their books or they may narrow your search field based on the criteria you are looking for that may become so narrow they actually have nothing that fits your particular needs.

If you are worried about what an agency has written about you on their books you can request that information under the 'Freedom of Information Act'.


----------



## The Brit in Aus (Apr 25, 2009)

pr2jd2b said:


> . Aussie neighbours react in much the same way, petty jealousy abounds, they first make comments like "it's not what you know, but who you know that counts" and "I can please myself who I talk to", it doesn't take long before their kids start to vandalise and steal from your property, the only way I have found to deal with the "maggots" amongst them is to call CrimeStoppers when you catch them pedling or using drugs.


On one of your other posts you stated: "most of my neighbours are ok, but *one* said "I can please myself who I talk to".

It appears that the bad aspects are isolated then.

Must admit I haven't seen anything half as bad as your description, although I have had 2 bad neighbours in 20 years, one of them though was a newly arrived Irish Migrant who did not like the English 

I am though, curious to know what is wrong with Blackbutt Qld. I was up there the other weekend and it seemed a nice place, except for the fact it was a 3 hour drive from Brisbane. But the people seemed very friendly.


----------



## Gimme5 (Aug 16, 2010)

cross said:


> Dear freinds,
> I am a regular follower of this forum and one of those many who have been immensely helped by the info it has.
> But some info also affects you as u read (in a negative way)...One of those is a recent posts where native Australian speaks of how unsafe Australia is of late.
> I will be moving to Australia soon with my wife and child and such news is disturbing to some extent. Outsiders being attacked "not for Money---but for looking at them" is really frightening.
> ...


Safer than Iraq!

Sorry, couldn't resist. It's all relative. If you're from Baghdad or even Johannesberg (sorry my SA mates, hear it's much better now after the FIFA WC), it's damn safe. Truth is Australia is a huge country, makes no sense to generalize. The lynch mob won't be waiting for you outside the airport if that's your concern. Like most places in the First World, just keep your wits about you, practice some common sense, don't go to the wrong place at the wrong time, be selective on where you live and most importantly, learn to sing "Waltzing Matilda".


----------



## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

The Brit in Aus said:


> On one of your other posts you stated: "most of my neighbours are ok, but *one* said "I can please myself who I talk to".
> 
> It appears that the bad aspects are isolated then.
> 
> ...


I lived in Blackbutt for many years, it used to be a hive for junkies , drug dealers and hoons, we used to get our roofs stoned on a regular basis, especially at weekends, one asian family had their solar hot water system damaged by druncard hoons. I no longer live there, it's possible that the police have cleaned out the place.


----------



## Johnfromoz (Oct 20, 2010)

pr2jd2b said:


> I lived in Blackbutt for many years, it used to be a hive for junkies , drug dealers and hoons, we used to get our roofs stoned on a regular basis, especially at weekends, one asian family had their solar hot water system damaged by druncard hoons. I no longer live there, it's possible that the police have cleaned out the place.


This can be said just about every rural town in the whole country. Small town Aussies don't like migrants. Some 20 years ago it was common in Sydney that Aussies told migrants to speak in english, so that they would understand what migrants were talking about. Unfortunately, this practice is still common in many rural areas.


----------



## Aussiejock (May 26, 2007)

Johnfromoz said:


> This can be said just about every rural town in the whole country. Small town Aussies don't like migrants. Some 20 years ago it was common in Sydney that Aussies told migrants to speak in english, so that they would understand what migrants were talking about. Unfortunately, this practice is still common in many rural areas.


Unfortunately too, there are those who will make no attempt to learn to speak English, those are the people whom the Australians take exception too. Those who try, no matter how badly, will find understanding and help.


----------



## Johnfromoz (Oct 20, 2010)

Aussiejock said:


> Unfortunately too, there are those who will make no attempt to learn to speak English, those are the people whom the Australians take exception too.


I totally agree but this is widespread in major cities, not rural towns. In small communities migrants do their best to learn the language. One big step would be to abolish the free interpreter service in government departments. This would force stubborn people to learn english which is the official language of this great country.


----------



## Gimme5 (Aug 16, 2010)

Aussiejock said:


> Unfortunately too, there are those who will make no attempt to learn to speak English, those are the people whom the Australians take exception too. Those who try, no matter how badly, will find understanding and help.


Personally, I wonder how much of that accusation is true. I have never come across anyone who has been in Australia or NZ for a number of years and are unable to speak English at least at a basic level and who do not attempt to speak English with locals. 

How do you differentiate between immigrants who allegedly do not attempt to learn and use English and those who are short term visitors, tourist and new arrivals? 

Do locals then have an issue with people speaking to one another in their native tongue among themselves (and I don't mean to the exclusion of English speaking persons in the group which is rude)? I understand some people will even take issue with shop signs and menus written in a foreign language!

Personally, I feel that a little understanding, acceptance and tolerance from all parties goes a long way. In the real world, that's a big ask. There's no pleasing everyone no matter how hard you try.


----------



## Gimme5 (Aug 16, 2010)

Kate from Oz said:


> I was born and raised in Australia, and have lived most of my life in QLD.
> 
> I've heard about 'attacks on Indians' in Melbourne a few months back that was really beat up in the press. I still don't know if this was an actual targeting of a particular race or not. I seem to remember reading the police comment that they didn't believe it was race related and then reading something else from the Indian community feeling that it was.
> 
> ...


"I can't speak for Melbourne because I haven't visited it for a while now but there certainly isn't that same feel in Brisbane. " I'm really interested to hear your point of view if you care to elaborate (since you've lived in QL all your life) as to what exactly is the difference between Melbourne and Brisbane in this regard. Would you say that most people you know share this same view?


----------



## Johnfromoz (Oct 20, 2010)

Queenslanders or bananabenders are very conservative, that,s why I have left them out of my generalisation. They are conservative, so unless inside of Brissie or Gold Coast, then be prepared for a very conservative welcome.


----------



## The Brit in Aus (Apr 25, 2009)

Gimme5 said:


> Personally, I wonder how much of that accusation is true. I have never come across anyone who has been in Australia or NZ for a number of years and are unable to speak English at least at a basic level and who do not attempt to speak English with locals.
> 
> How do you differentiate between immigrants who allegedly do not attempt to learn and use English and those who are short term visitors, tourist and new arrivals?


One good example is Centrelink customers, who have lived in Australia for many years, but STILL need the interpreter service to help them get their unemployment benefits right.

This does happen, although obviously not with everyone, but enough to warrant Centrelink having to employ numbers of translators at extra cost to the taxpayer.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Hopefully they will continue to tighten this up.


----------



## jojo1antony (Jul 26, 2010)

jojo said:


> We're all foreign when we go and live in another country!
> 
> Jo


The comments /opinions are scaring! My family and me are in the final phase of formalities to migrate into Australia. As an Indian , is it wrong to describe us as Asian ? In fact I could not understand the "lines between the lines" that indians shoudn't say that they are Asian.


----------



## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

welcome to the forum jojo

well, few terms were given to a group of people ages back and people still follow it. Common sense says Indians, Pakistanis etc are all Asians but no.. ppl follow all that is already written, they do not follow facts n use common sense for a change .

Dont worry jojo, australia isnt that bad, if it was, all Indians would have come back, no India who is a student there would have applied for PR adn those who come back to INdia for a visit would have never gone back or those already there would have never applied for their relatives to come to Au for a visit or PR. relax and go with the flow.


----------



## Sam James (Oct 13, 2010)

anj1976 said:


> relax and go with the flow.


----------



## cross (May 29, 2010)

anj1976 said:


> those already there would have never applied for their relatives to come to Au for a visit or PR. .


True!


----------



## jojo1antony (Jul 26, 2010)

anj1976 said:


> welcome to the forum jojo
> 
> well, few terms were given to a group of people ages back and people still follow it. Common sense says Indians, Pakistanis etc are all Asians but no.. ppl follow all that is already written, they do not follow facts n use common sense for a change .
> 
> Dont worry jojo, australia isnt that bad, if it was, all Indians would have come back, no India who is a student there would have applied for PR adn those who come back to INdia for a visit would have never gone back or those already there would have never applied for their relatives to come to Au for a visit or PR. relax and go with the flow.


Thank you friends for the reassuarence!
Rgds


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Loads safer than India.


----------



## abhiria (Jul 31, 2008)

Halo said:


> Loads safer than India.


I second that  Way too safe than the " Incredible India"


----------

