# 176 - urgent advise needed to show evidence of continuing relationship



## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

Hi all, 

I am about to apply for 176 with wife and 10 month old son as dependents.
I urgently need help for "evidence of genuine and continuing relationship" are scary. 

I have been married for close to 3 years and my wife is a homemaker. We have a 10 month old son. We live with my parents. 

The only proofs I have are : 
1) my bank statement shows that I paid for regular gynaec consultations, delivery charges and shopping for baby. This covers last two years.
2) honeymoon travel one week after wedding
3) A joint account that I opened today
4) photographs at social gatherings

We don't have any loans or assets jointly owned. In summary, I don't have anything DIAC mentions in their list other than the above

Are the above enough? What more can i provide? 
Thanks in advance for any help. 

Other than above, my case is reasonably good:
Applying for Software Engineer 261313, ACS done
6.5 years with single employer, reputed company, no gaps
4 years computer engineering degree from reputed college, excellent academic record
very good salary and savings
IELTS L9,R9,W8,S8
75 points without state sponsorship 
Applied for Vic and NSW state sponsorship today (Mar 9, 2012)

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...isa-software-engineer-started-dec-2011-a.html


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am about to apply for 176 with wife and 10 month old son as dependents.
> I urgently need help for "evidence of genuine and continuing relationship" are scary.
> ...


there is nothing to worry in your case as such. if you provide your marriage certificate it is enough. if you can show your spouse name in your passport it will add value. it is as simple as that.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

Thanks a lot dreamaus!

That is a relief. I see from your threads that your case was somewhat similar to mine. 
I submitted passport application for my son 3 days ago. 

- Neither of our passports have spouse name on it. Also my passport has permanent address which is still our property but my present address is different. This will mean address change on my passport. 

I will need PCC for myself and my wife. 

passport application and PCC all go through the new Passport Seva Kendra in Hyderabad and I will need 4 separate applications/appointments for these. I am worried that things will take too long and my passport would be held up. 

I am planning to apply for PCC for myself and wife immediately. This way, if I get my SS approval, I will still have both passports for 176 application. PCC would hopefully come by the time CO needs it. 

What do you suggest?


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Thanks a lot dreamaus!
> 
> That is a relief. I see from your threads that your case was somewhat similar to mine.
> I submitted passport application for my son 3 days ago.
> ...


1. For your son passport, either of the parent must have spouse name included else they will not allow to grant a PP for your son.
2. So, first thing you need to do is apply for change of address, inclusion of name and anything else necessary for both of your passports on the same day as your son's appointment or a day before that.
3. Go for your appointments, get things done for at least one of you and get the ack letter from the passport office. 
4. With that ack letter and fee receipt apply for your son's passport with those docs are proofs. they will accept it.
5. Your son will receive pp in 3-5 days max as there will be no police verification.
6. PV will be done for both of you guys and you will get your passport in roughly 4-5 weeks but it all depends on when PSK receive the PV clear letter.
7. Apply for PCC after getting both of your passports and you will get the PCC on the spot as your verification was done very recently.
8. I did the same as above and it worked for me fine. Only thing is my wife's passport was issued in a different city than I applied so I have to wait for about 4 weeks for police verification. 
9. For me it was change of address within the city so I got passport in 3 days but later verification was done. My son had no trouble getting the passport.

Good Luck


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

*Thanks a ton*

Dreamaus,

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. This is very helpful.

I am encouraged to move forward, but with one difference. I already submitted application for my son's passport at PSK. They asked explanation why our passports don't have spouse name but finally accepted marriage certificate. May be its more relaxed in Hyderabad.

On a side note, I read in another thread about a bizarre case of PCC being denied because passport doesn't have spouse name.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Dreamaus,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. This is very helpful.
> 
> ...


If your son's PP is issued only with your marriage certificate, you are lucky! Cool then.

yes, spouse name inclusion for PCC is only requested in Gujarat PSK...they are crazy...but they are final decision makers so you have to oblige.


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

I am about to apply for 176 with wife and 10 month old son as dependents.
I urgently need help for "evidence of genuine and continuing relationship" are scary. 


> Marriage Certificate is more than enough..No need to show the honeymoon pics etc...


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

good plan...



sraza said:


> Thanks a lot dreamaus!
> 
> That is a relief. I see from your threads that your case was somewhat similar to mine.
> I submitted passport application for my son 3 days ago.
> ...


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

lifeisgood said:


> Marriage Certificate is more than enough..No need to show the honeymoon pics etc...


LoL  
I meant travel stamps on our passports but not pics.


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## rinkesh.sawhney (Jan 30, 2012)

sraza said:


> Thanks a lot dreamaus!
> 
> That is a relief. I see from your threads that your case was somewhat similar to mine.
> I submitted passport application for my son 3 days ago.
> ...




Hi,
Would you please explain me what does PCC mean...is everybody required to get it done...
what is the difference between a secondary applicant and a dependent...
is it required that wife's passport should have husbands name on it..and my passport has address where i do not live anymore...so do i need to get my address changed to the current address on the passport..

Thanks in anticipation!..

Cheers,
Rinkesh


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

I am not an expert and seniors can correct me if I am wrong. 



rinkesh.sawhney said:


> Hi,
> Would you please explain me what does PCC mean...is everybody required to get it done...


PCC means Police Clearance Certificate and everybody is required to get it. It is nowadays issued via Passport Seva Kendra. 



rinkesh.sawhney said:


> ,
> what is the difference between a secondary applicant and a dependent...


Dependent is anybody who is dependent on you financially. Secondary applicant is someone whom you are including with you for migration purposes (Typically spouse and kids). You may have dependents who are not migrating with you 



rinkesh.sawhney said:


> ,
> is it required that wife's passport should have husbands name on it..and my passport has address where i do not live anymore...so do i need to get my address changed to the current address on the passport..


It is recommended to have spouse name on the passport but not compulsory (unless you are in Gujarat). Marriage certificate will do. 


Regarding address change, I defer to seniors as I now doubt whether this is needed.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

sraza said:


> Regarding address change, I defer to seniors as I now doubt whether this is needed.


Seniors, please advise


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Seniors, please advise


I don't think address change is mandatory but if you go for any other change of details in pp, you have to change address as well as part of new pp application process.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

dreamaus said:


> I don't think address change is mandatory but if you go for any other change of details in pp, you have to change address as well as part of new pp application process.


Thanks Dreamaus. I have booked appointments for PCC in the same slot for myself and my wife on Tuesday morning. 

I will have two other pending things (both of which are optional for 176): 
1) Spouse name to be added on both passports
2) Address change to be reflected on both passports.

I will also ask PSK guys if it is recommended to do 1) and 2) above before PCC.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Thanks Dreamaus. I have booked appointments for PCC in the same slot for myself and my wife on Tuesday morning.
> 
> I will have two other pending things (both of which are optional for 176):
> 1) Spouse name to be added on both passports
> ...


Whether you do single change or multiple it is going to be one time process and one fee only. So if you have time do it now itself for both of you. They will ask you to provide your current address and if it is different they would ask for change of address too which might require a police verification first and then for a PCC endorsement.
Similarly, if you say you are staying in same address and if previous verification is not done(in case of tatkal) or it is done long time back again they would do the police verification.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

dreamaus said:


> Whether you do single change or multiple it is going to be one time process and one fee only. So if you have time do it now itself for both of you. They will ask you to provide your current address and if it is different they would ask for change of address too which might require a police verification first and then for a PCC endorsement.
> Similarly, if you say you are staying in same address and if previous verification is not done(in case of tatkal) or it is done long time back again they would do the police verification.


Thanks DreamAus. 

I am going first for PCC but not for change for details (address, spouse name) because they will take original passport and I am not sure how long they take. I know people whose new passport or re-issue has been stuck for 8 months (they had filed before PSK started). I also know people who got renewal in 3 weeks. So I am not sure. 

Do we have to submit original passport for PCC? If yes, then as you suggested, doing changes on passport first will simplify PCC. 

Sorry to bother everyone so much, I think I now know the correct question to ask: 
"Can I apply 176 online without original passport?"


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Thanks DreamAus.
> 
> I am going first for PCC but not for change for details (address, spouse name) because they will take original passport and I am not sure how long they take. I know people whose new passport or re-issue has been stuck for 8 months (they had filed before PSK started). I also know people who got renewal in 3 weeks. So I am not sure.
> 
> ...


Yes for PCC you need original pp as they will endorse on last page "PCC issued for Australia" and stamp it and give a letter as well to you.
Mine was on the spot PCC as I did reissue 2 months back only. But in your case if police verification is done again they might get the passport and courier once it is done with stamping.

For applying 176, only scanned copies of first and last page and if any other pages of observation is required. So no need to worry on that part. You can go ahead with application as soon as you have all documents. Even if there is a change in you passport number itself, you can submit a form for that to DIAC before a decision is made on your visa and correct your details. they will accept it. I am pasting here what I got from automatic mail after 176 lodging. So 176 lodging part is not a big deal. 

_CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCES

If your circumstances have changed since you made your visa application, and as a result an answer to a question on your visa application form or the information you have given to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship about your visa application is no longer correct, you must advise us in writing as soon as possible.

Examples of changes in circumstances include:

- changes to address and/or contact details;
- changes to employment, for example a new job;
- obtaining a new passport;
- new member of the family unit;
- you or a secondary applicant has become pregnant;
- discovery that information previously provided is incorrect.

You can provide this information to the GSM processing office by letter or email, together with any accompanying documents. If you are notifying the department of a change to your email address by sending an email from your new email address, you must include details of your previous email address, as evidence that you have authorised the change.

The following forms are useful for notifying the department of changes in circumstances and are available on the department's website at http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms:

- form 929 Change of Address;
- form 1022 Notification of Changes in Circumstances;
- form 1023 Notification of Incorrect Answer(s);
- form 1193 Communication by Email.
_

Hope that helps.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

*Thank You*

DreamAus, 

I can't thank you enough for patiently answering my queries. I am now convinced that it is wise to get details changed on passport first. 

Thanks again.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> DreamAus,
> 
> I can't thank you enough for patiently answering my queries. I am now convinced that it is wise to get details changed on passport first.
> 
> Thanks again.


No issues. I have even more doubts and confusions when I was crossing your stage of application. This forum is helping me a lot on most of my questions. So decided to give back to it!

Again, if you get passport for your kid without any change of details in both of your passports and if PSK is OK to give you PCC with existing details itself (let them take say 4 weeks or so to grant PCC) and you don't need any info change in your passports....why do you need to change the details?  back to square one...

I just gave my sus change details only when it is absolutely necessary else why ggestions...it is upto you to decide finally to change or not. But my point ihassle of going thro that process again as we are already busy with PR process itself...


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

dreamaus said:


> No issues. I have even more doubts and confusions when I was crossing your stage of application. This forum is helping me a lot on most of my questions. So decided to give back to it!
> 
> Again, if you get passport for your kid without any change of details in both of your passports and if PSK is OK to give you PCC with existing details itself (let them take say 4 weeks or so to grant PCC) and you don't need any info change in your passports....why do you need to change the details?  back to square one...
> 
> I just gave my sus change details only when it is absolutely necessary else why ggestions...it is upto you to decide finally to change or not. But my point ihassle of going thro that process again as we are already busy with PR process itself...


Hmm . I will check with PSK guys on Tuesday and see what they say. If they suggest change of details followed by PCC, I will go for it.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

sraza said:


> Hmm . I will check with PSK guys on Tuesday and see what they say. If they suggest change of details followed by PCC, I will go for it.


I went to the PSK today and came back empty handed . They gave me two options: 

1) Get PCC with marital status as single because my passport doesn't have spouse name

2) Get spouse name added on either passports and then apply for PCC.

So, I am no choice but to apply for spouse name + address change!


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

Did the PSK guys tell that spouse's name is required in one of the passports (i.e., husband's name in wife's passport or vice-versa)?

this new rule is causing havoc and it has absolutely no basis whatsoever...
I dont think this is a requirement even for DIAC...
are indian authorities gonna stop people at the airport and look at the spouse's name in our passports? ..this is ridiculous...



sraza said:


> I went to the PSK today and came back empty handed . They gave me two options:
> 
> 1) Get PCC with marital status as single because my passport doesn't have spouse name
> 
> ...


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> I went to the PSK today and came back empty handed . They gave me two options:
> 
> 1) Get PCC with marital status as single because my passport doesn't have spouse name
> 
> ...


hmm...lifeisgood has underwent this so crappy condition which you can see from his post above!

But I see no issue in getting PCC with 'single' but still why take a chance...take this as an opportunity to get all the changes done in both of your passports. I foresee my future 3 months back that I might land in this situation and got it done proactively.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

dreamaus said:


> hmm...lifeisgood has underwent this so crappy condition which you can see from his post above!
> 
> But I see no issue in getting PCC with 'single' but still why take a chance...take this as an opportunity to get all the changes done in both of your passports. I foresee my future 3 months back that I might land in this situation and got it done proactively.


Yeah, I was tempted for "single" but then not sure what complications. I am going for the address change + spouse name changes in the next couple of days.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Yeah, I was tempted for "single" but then not sure what complications. I am going for the address change + spouse name changes in the next couple of days.


One thing I like about this PR process is such last minute surprises  tough to accept but good experience


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

yup got into this situation and it was horrible...
DIAC actually does not care about this..and the reason why I can vouch for this is bcoz my friend has applied for citizenship in adelaide in Dec'12 and his passport does not have his wife's name neither does his wife's passport have his name!!!

but go for the new passport anyway...



dreamaus said:


> hmm...lifeisgood has underwent this so crappy condition which you can see from his post above!
> 
> But I see no issue in getting PCC with 'single' but still why take a chance...take this as an opportunity to get all the changes done in both of your passports. I foresee my future 3 months back that I might land in this situation and got it done proactively.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

lifeisgood said:


> yup got into this situation and it was horrible...
> DIAC actually does not care about this..and the reason why I can vouch for this is bcoz my friend has applied for citizenship in adelaide in Dec'12 and his passport does not have his wife's name neither does his wife's passport have his name!!!
> 
> but go for the new passport anyway...


I will most probably get an appointment for Monday Mar 19. If it wasn't for address change, I wouldn't have been worried. Now there will be police verfication and will take atleast 1.5 month I guess. 

Also, I have a 10 year B1 visa to USA which is valid for another 5 years. They will return the original passport, right? 

My sister is an australian citizen already (she studied in australia and got pr, then citizenship 2 years ago). Her australian passport doesn't have spouse name. Not even parents name.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> I will most probably get an appointment for Monday Mar 19. If it wasn't for address change, I wouldn't have been worried. Now there will be police verfication and will take atleast 1.5 month I guess.
> 
> Also, I have a 10 year B1 visa to USA which is valid for another 5 years. They will return the original passport, right?
> 
> My sister is an australian citizen already (she studied in australia and got pr, then citizenship 2 years ago). Her australian passport doesn't have spouse name. Not even parents name.


anyways for PCC they will take 1 month and now you are spending that time on passport reissue with fresh and updated details. but pcc will be done in same day.

yes they will give back the old passport with cancelled endorsed on it and new one will have old passport number as well. it is just that your old passport is cancelled but not your visa. no worries there but if you want in your new passport as well you B1 stamping that might be a cause of concern


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

Thanks. I am just hoping that PCC after re-issued passport will not take time. 

I am happy with B1 on my old passport.


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## English_Girl (Mar 17, 2012)

My Fiance who is a Canadian Citizen, sponsered me and we moved over to Canada together. We weren't even engaged at the time, we were just 'Common-Law' partners, and still are really. All we needed to show was utility bills proving that we were common-law, joint bank account, travel bookings and a few photos (our immigration lawyer said a couple of photos always helps).
I would have thought that if you're married, you live together and have a child together then that would be a lot bigger a case than we had!


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

English_Girl said:


> My Fiance who is a Canadian Citizen, sponsered me and we moved over to Canada together. We weren't even engaged at the time, we were just 'Common-Law' partners, and still are really. All we needed to show was utility bills proving that we were common-law, joint bank account, travel bookings and a few photos (our immigration lawyer said a couple of photos always helps).
> I would have thought that if you're married, you live together and have a child together then that would be a lot bigger a case than we had!


You are right. Some things are difficult here indeed!!


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

My wife and I went to the PSK today for spouse name + address change. 

They accepted my application but rejected by wife's application because we did not have an address proof that is on her name. If they can accept marriage certificate to add spouse name to my passport, why not accept it as linked document for her address proof?

They did not consider our son's passport which also had the same address.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> My wife and I went to the PSK today for spouse name + address change.
> 
> They accepted my application but rejected by wife's application because we did not have an address proof that is on her name. If they can accept marriage certificate to add spouse name to my passport, why not accept it as linked document for her address proof?
> 
> They did not consider our son's passport which also had the same address.


The protocol is every applicant should submit the listed document for address change in her passport. So why your wife's application is rejected. 

Marriage certificate mostly will not have address and how can they take that as an address proof?

There is no way out but to get an address proof for her. If you have a bank account with any nationalized bank which has the same address, try to include her a joint account holder and get one. If you have any other alternative go for it.


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

dreamaus said:


> The protocol is every applicant should submit the listed document for address change in her passport. So why your wife's application is rejected.
> 
> Marriage certificate mostly will not have address and how can they take that as an address proof?
> 
> There is no way out but to get an address proof for her. If you have a bank account with any nationalized bank which has the same address, try to include her a joint account holder and get one. If you have any other alternative go for it.



I have a salary account with Axis bank and I am going to get her added to that. They accept private bank statements if you provide a cover letter issued by the bank. 

This isn't surprising and I not expecting anything to change. Just frustrated as it was my third visit to the PSK . Their protocol is not logical. My address is X, and my wife lives with me. Hence, her address is X. 

Also, after three separate visits for PSK, I have found TCS staff at PSK to be very rude.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> I have a salary account with Axis bank and I am going to get her added to that. They accept private bank statements if you provide a cover letter issued by the bank.
> 
> This isn't surprising and I not expecting anything to change. Just frustrated as it was my third visit to the PSK . Their protocol is not logical. My address is X, and my wife lives with me. Hence, her address is X.
> 
> Also, after three separate visits for PSK, I have found TCS staff at PSK to be very rude.


yeah man...for me my job is done so I am talking rules and 'ghost' protocols  but for you only frustration remains due to such process...no issues when you see PR stamped on your passport you will forget all these things 

If they are rude definitely you have to mention it in feedback form with them. but don't expect to take any actions against them


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## Sindebad77 (Oct 19, 2011)

Good day for you,

Thanks a lot for granting me a part of your precious time.

I am a 35 years Electrical Engineer ,recently got my 475 Visa Sponsored by SA government, planned to move to Adelaide on the coming October, I just want to know that what are the ways by which we can demonstrate that we are living in South Australia or under the sponsorship of the designated Area? As you know that holder of 475 Visa should prove that he lived for 2 years and worked full time for one year prior to applying for PR visa. I am asking this question because I have an intention to live with an OZi family and share their house there and that means no tenancy contract or E, W or G bills will be in my name!!!!

Thanking you in advance for your answer and looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Best Regards,

Alderi


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

dreamaus said:


> yeah man...for me my job is done so I am talking rules and 'ghost' protocols  but for you only frustration remains due to such process...no issues when you see PR stamped on your passport you will forget all these things
> 
> If they are rude definitely you have to mention it in feedback form with them. but don't expect to take any actions against them


Dreamaus, 
I got approval from NSW yesterday. I will be applying for 176 soon.

I have another complication now - I have to shift to a different flat in the same building by april month end. My passport re-issue is already in progress but I couldn't apply for my wife's passport re-issue because we couldn't arrange address proof yet. 

Now I will try for her PCC independently on her old passport with marital status "single" because I now know for sure that marital status doesn't appear on PCC.


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## dreamaus (Nov 12, 2011)

sraza said:


> Dreamaus,
> I got approval from NSW yesterday. I will be applying for 176 soon.
> 
> I have another complication now - I have to shift to a different flat in the same building by april month end. My passport re-issue is already in progress but I couldn't apply for my wife's passport re-issue because we couldn't arrange address proof yet.
> ...


you say your reissue is in progress and you are shifting to new flat in same building. reissue is for what reason?
for your wife, if nothing works out PCC with marital single is OK but not sure if they allow because when a person is married, any form he/she fills must reflect true marital status. for sake of getting PCC if you do so it shouldn't give you problems in future. Just my thought...

yes PCC will not reflect any marital status in the letter or in the endorsement done in your passport so it shouldn't be a big problem i guess.


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## Pradiprn (Jul 21, 2011)

sraza said:


> Dreamaus,
> I got approval from NSW yesterday. I will be applying for 176 soon.
> 
> I have another complication now - I have to shift to a different flat in the same building by april month end. My passport re-issue is already in progress but I couldn't apply for my wife's passport re-issue because we couldn't arrange address proof yet.
> ...


This is what me and my wife are doing as well. Applying for PCC separately rather than showing change in marital status. That way we both hope to get the PCC in one week.


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

You are rite that Marital Status does not appear on the PCC so its illogical actually to ask for a change in passport....
DIAC is also not bothered abt this so might as well go ahead with your plan..Good Luck 


sraza said:


> Dreamaus,
> I got approval from NSW yesterday. I will be applying for 176 soon.
> 
> I have another complication now - I have to shift to a different flat in the same building by april month end. My passport re-issue is already in progress but I couldn't apply for my wife's passport re-issue because we couldn't arrange address proof yet.
> ...


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## sraza (Nov 24, 2011)

*address change after 176 online*



sraza said:


> Dreamaus,
> I got approval from NSW yesterday. I will be applying for 176 soon.
> 
> I have another complication now - I have to shift to a different flat in the same building by april month end. My passport re-issue is already in progress but I couldn't apply for my wife's passport re-issue because we couldn't arrange address proof yet.
> ...


I got an SMS that my re-issued passport has been dispatched, so I should get it tomorrow. For my wife, atleast my passport will have spouse name, so I am hoping PCC will be given. 


Also, I will be applying for 176 online in a few days. My re-issued passport and wife's PCC will also be based on current address. After I shift my house, I don't think I will have to deal with passport guys. Should I be worried of what DIAC thinks?


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