# wish i hadn't moved to spain



## markjd (Aug 1, 2008)

seriously thinking of going home, the laws and Buraucracy in spain are a nightmare.
it has taken me 4 months to set up a spainsh company and i am still not finished, someone tells you it will be 2 days to sort something and 8 days later still not done, no wonder spain has the biggest unemployment in the EU.
The real thing that pi** me off the most is all the buraucracy to set the company up and 4 months of complaning about the constant loud music and the drugs from the house 3 doors away only to be told that they can play their music as loud as they wont up until 10pm every day and we cant do anything, drugs well according to the police this is normal. Mind you i think the police are more interested in putting parking tickets on cars to make some money
When the police have knocked no one answers and they go away with their tail between their legs, then the junkies come out on to their balcony laughing at the police.
I guess thats the problem when you come to a country like this and the only benefits are the warmer weather.

How good is a country when people are allowed to ruin peoples lives and thats the law, i wish i hadn't have wasted my money coming here


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

You can't hold one crap area of being typical of Spain....cos to me it sounds like you moved into a bad location. They do exist here....but nothing on the scale of the UK.

How much research did you do before you moved in?


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## markjd (Aug 1, 2008)

XTreme said:


> You can't hold one crap area of being typical of Spain....cos to me it sounds like you moved into a bad location. They do exist here....but nothing on the scale of the UK.
> 
> How much research did you do before you moved in?


we researched spain and all seemed well, problem strated when we came over in August to sort out a rental and 2 estate agents let us down to look at properties even though we arranged to go straight from the airport to them on our arrival. all we got was someone on the phone saying its siesta, that is a problem we have found with a lot of agents.
they have Probably been here to long because we find that its nothing like the UK were people want your business, all companies see you when they can be bothered, we had only previously been to this town 1 day previously, the area is not genrally bad its the fact that nothing is done to stop it even though it is well known problem property to the police this is the problem.
I new the country was slow in the way things worked but i am trying to bring some revenue and some jobs to a country which is the worst in the EU and they still have no interest to move quicker than slow.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

What area is this Mark?


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## markjd (Aug 1, 2008)

we are in ontinyent, the reason we wanted to go inland so far was to keep away from the tourist areas, we thought what is the point of moving to spain and livivng amoung the brits.
my wife has been learning spanish for 6 months before we came and then went to valencia for an intensive coarse, she is trying to study hard to eventually get a spanish job but cant do anything with the noise.
You are probably right in what you say but it doesn't help when we are having to put up with it, we are moving but still have another 2 months before this is possible.
You know the extra expense of higher taxes and everything i can put up with but i expect people who want my business to get it done and if they cant i just get rid of them, its so frustrating in every way at the moment when i should be more relaxed and enjoying life


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

markjd said:


> we researched spain and all seemed well, problem strated when we came over in August to sort out a rental and 2 estate agents let us down to look at properties even though we arranged to go straight from the airport to them on our arrival. all we got was someone on the phone saying its siesta, that is a problem we have found with a lot of agents.
> they have Probably been here to long because we find that its nothing like the UK were people want your business, all companies see you when they can be bothered, we had only previously been to this town 1 day previously, the area is not genrally bad its the fact that nothing is done to stop it even though it is well known problem property to the police this is the problem.
> I new the country was slow in the way things worked but i am trying to bring some revenue and some jobs to a country which is the worst in the EU and they still have no interest to move quicker than slow.





I found this when we recently made enquiries about moving. Out of 10 agetns only 3 got back to us and that was three days after our enquiry - now they cant be that busy can they??

I've been doing a lot of soul searching and the things that drew me to Spain could well irritate me if I thought about it too long - I loved their laid back and relaxed attitude, that could also be seen as inificient and lazy, the slow pace of life drew me here (amongst other things), but that isnt what you want if you a Brit in a hurry and expecting everything to be as would be in the UK.

The Spanish are what they are. If they suddenly started rushing around and getting stressed, then Spain would soon become like the UK we've left!!

As for your house and the noise etc.... Have a look for somewhere else - if you can get an agent to call you back this year LOL.

Dont give up, its nothing like I thought it would be here either, but going back isnt the answer - we knew it wouldnt be easy - so did you!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I wouldn't let one bad experience in location put you off Mark......there's some fantastic places to live here, you've just got to see as much as you can before you commit.
As for the Spaniard's pedestrian pace at doing things.....you do get used to it if that's any consolation. 
What line of business are you going to do?


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## cuevadame (Dec 31, 2008)

Think long and hard mate - once you've moved away from your neighbours, you might be able to think more clearly about your next step. You can't make any decisions about your future in your current frame of mind. I don't know what your financial situation is but it sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. Look at the positive - you did absolutely the right thing in renting. It means that you have the freedom to move to anywhere you like. Obviously, you now have your business to consider but not all neighbourhoods are like the one you now find yourself in. Another thing is spring's coming! People - including Spanish beaurocrats, will be waking up after the Christmas a New Year festivities. Don't give up yet - Spain needs your vision and energy!!


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

markjd said:


> we are in ontinyent, the reason we wanted to go inland so far was to keep away from the tourist areas, we thought what is the point of moving to spain and livivng amoung the brits.
> my wife has been learning spanish for 6 months before we came and then went to valencia for an intensive coarse, she is trying to study hard to eventually get a spanish job but cant do anything with the noise.
> You are probably right in what you say but it doesn't help when we are having to put up with it, we are moving but still have another 2 months before this is possible.
> You know the extra expense of higher taxes and everything i can put up with but i expect people who want my business to get it done and if they cant i just get rid of them, its so frustrating in every way at the moment when i should be more relaxed and enjoying life


Sorry to hear about what you're going though. Have you been to the town hall and find out if they're owners or renting?

In any case, a "denuncia" (written) might get you further on the drugs side of things (not sure about decibel laws in Spain. They do exist, but I don't know what level to what time in which areas etc - Town Hall should know though).

I do know that a "denuncia" should be acted on by the town hall via the local police (sent by them). The only down side is that it's quite serious. i.e. you may have to back it up and go all the way if the town hall find a problem. And there's the rub. Seen any dodgy Porches and the like turn up at funny hours? Seen their faces? Would you want to remember what they looked like?

Not being funny, but I would sooner move from a rental than get into that with my family around me.

Hope it all works out OK.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Hiya MARK,

Sorry to hear that things are still not working out for you.

In your situation I think you are best finding another property, maybe in a different area to give you a fresh start and move asap.

I would not even go down the path of trying to get the police to do something about your annoying neighbours. Its far too much stress and you are moving
soon so don't bother with it. Simple. Just move and quick.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

It's a rental ....move on! You are an expat - they are locals. You lose, they win. Simple deal 
Are you on the padrón? Do you have residencia? Are you in all the clubs? Would the police in the UK or Sweden bust a gut about a non-confirmed report? No. Don't blame Spain. 

I would also suggest a more expat area or at least a Spanish speaking area. As you know you are in deepest valenciano country and learning one language is a challenge let alone two! I guess you feel quite isolated where you are and especially in this awful situation. You might feel more comfortable knowing that the local barowner, priest, supermarket spoke English. No big deal to me but I know others take comfort in that.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

markjd said:


> to be told that they can play their music as loud as they wont up until 10pm every day and we cant do anything,


Just so you're aware - Even in VERY controlled Germany - the "noise curfew" does not start until about then. There used to be a requirement for Siesta Silence - but that I think ceased. 

Spain operates later hours - and this was something you should have factored in. My Spanish niece often was out for things like piano lessons until 11PM when she was only 12 or so. 10PM here is NOT late.

Issuing "denuncias" IS NOT for the uninitiated. It puts you in an exposed (locatable) position, unless somebody like the mayor takes it on informally and THE AYUNTAMIENTO is the registered plaintiff. If the other party has some form of support - be it through right or fear - you're stuffed. And if they're established locals THEY HAVE THIS. The local police are probably local too - they're also at some risk. DRUGS etc - it'll take the national Police or the GC and these do not get involved - unless of couse you could PROVE drug dealing.

As Steve says - just move. Personally I would NOT go to an ex-pat area either - but I have a stubborn independent streak in me.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I did offer "Spain" as a half-way house! Deepest Ontinyent is about as valenciano as it gets and I am sure that can't be helping their feeling of isolation and frustration.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Mark, you have had the guts to get off your backside and try to make a fresh start in a foreign country, good on you.

You could very well have suffered from bad neighbours in the OK, not what you wanted but not the end of the world. You have encountered Spanish bureaucracy and don't understand it, stick it out, it will come to you in the fullness of time.

Whatever you decide I wish you well, 'Better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all'.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Deepest Ontinyent is about as valenciano as it gets and I am sure that can't be helping their feeling of isolation and frustration.


Oh yus. My missus is on "hol's" down in Valencia this week. Just sits around doing cross stich and nattering. So I work - it's more fun.

A very well policed area - Piccasent - not actually inside the prison but close enough for them to patrol often (probably looking for tunnel entrances).


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Picassent .....deepest, deepest valenciano. 

Just checked, the ajuntament (sic) site is not even in castellano. 

Nice enough just next to the parc natural l'albufera. Send her some thread (wool?) and she may stay away longer. Mine works the same deal .....only its with euros!!!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Picassent .....deepest, deepest valenciano. Send her some thread (wool?) and she may stay away longer. Mine works the same deal .....only its with euros!!!


Oddly I quite like it down there - would prefer a bit further up in the hills though. 

No Steve - I want her back here earning "guaranteed" funcionario Euros. If not I'd have to find a "real" job!

Nice mayoress though! - And I know I've seen donkeys around.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Hey Mark,

Us South Africans have a saying when things are tough, "Vasbyt!" Basically it means that you just have stick with it. Keep in mind the reasons that you moved here from "Mud Island" and focus on the things that you can change. (Getting your business off the ground, moving house, supporting your wife in learning the lingo and geting a job). Once you get those ducks in order, the rest of the issues become very insignificant!!

Good luck!


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## tigersharkjs (Sep 19, 2008)

Hi Mark..Come on now, boy..buck up!! You were so encouraging to me a few months ago. I agree with the "move on" posts. You did everything right..you did your homework, you are learning Spanish (both of you, I mean), you did not jump in and BUY a place. Don't let it ruin all your plans..being away from the pests will put a whole new light on things!! We're all behind you.


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## chickentikka (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi Mark
Sorry to hear your having a bad time, we moved close to you (L'Olleria) just over 3 years ago and believe me we have had our fair share of problems, including going to the police to issue a denunci. We did the same as you and rented somewhere for over a year until we were sure that this was what we wanted to do. We do find the valencian language very difficult especially as we live right in the centre of town, but the Spanish are more than helpful if they see you trying, although they do like to give you the valencian as well as the spanish which does make it hard. Why not try a different area, sometimes even a couple of streets away can make a difference. Or why not look at a smaller town/village, we have found the smaller places a lot more welcoming and everyone knows everyone elses business, so it feels more of a community.
Don't give up, it's no better in the UK


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My nearest main town is Croydon where you may have read a father on his way to visit his wife in hospital following the birth of their son was knifed to death in front of his 3 year old daughter. Third murder in that street in a couple of months. It is becoming a no-go area and much of the town is violent and horrendous on Friday and Saturday nights, like a lot of places in Britain (and elsewhere in the world). Hang on in there and with a bit of luck it may all work out for you - sure hope it does. Can we have an update on how you all are right now??


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## markjd (Aug 1, 2008)

Update
Fingers crossed will be moved in the next 2 weeks, have now been officially allowed to start my business although the noise still continues, is has got a bit better since i knocked on the door with an axe in my hand.
The house is actually like a derelict house with a solid front door, they are well known to the police for problems i was told by the local police, they have witnessed the noise on quite a few occassions but obviuosly the person living their thinks the police are a joke and turns it up when they leave, i think the police just cant be bothered any more as when i last spoke to them 4 weeks after i reported it to the town hall they said their is nothing wrong with playing loud music until 10pm, the law cant do nothing wish they had told me before i wasted 3 months trying to get it stoped.
I even told the police i would chop their fingers off if it didn't stop and they didn't care.

On a positive note we are moving to a villa about 25km away with 7,000 sq metres of land, pool and garage, we still get to stay inland away from the tourist areas, i am due to go to school and learn more Spanish in 3 weeks and our dog gets lots of space to run around in.
Thank you everyone for your help and advice


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Excellent news. Good luck in the move and hope it all works out for you and your family.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

markjd said:


> Update
> Fingers crossed will be moved in the next 2 weeks, have now been officially allowed to start my business although the noise still continues, is has got a bit better since i knocked on the door with an axe in my hand.
> The house is actually like a derelict house with a solid front door, they are well known to the police for problems i was told by the local police, they have witnessed the noise on quite a few occassions but obviuosly the person living their thinks the police are a joke and turns it up when they leave, i think the police just cant be bothered any more as when i last spoke to them 4 weeks after i reported it to the town hall they said their is nothing wrong with playing loud music until 10pm, the law cant do nothing wish they had told me before i wasted 3 months trying to get it stoped.
> I even told the police i would chop their fingers off if it didn't stop and they didn't care.
> ...


Glad to hear things improving


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## tigersharkjs (Sep 19, 2008)

Yay!! Good work, Mark and family. We were, and are, all wishing you the best. Keep us posted of your new home.


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## cuevadame (Dec 31, 2008)

Excellent news - onwards and up and good luck!


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## markjd (Aug 1, 2008)

cuevadame said:


> Excellent news - onwards and up and good luck!


news update
now sitting in my new place in the country, the views are stunning being only half a mile from the mountain, the dog has made friends and the only noise is the crackle of the logs on the fire. 
Its amazing how a lot of vebal on the phone to telefonica and the next day an engineer is putting up the phone poles and a few days later everything is up and running. 
when we do eventually buy a property i think i am going to get it built as keeping the house cool in the summer hits the heating bill hard when its cold in the morning and evening, er indoors suffers the cold more than me so our last electric bill was €420 for 2 months.
Luckily here their are lots of trees and the owners have someone come and prune them we have enough wood for about 2 months, hopefully by then it will be warmer.

thanks for everyones help and advice


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## cuevadame (Dec 31, 2008)

Fab news - well done, it sounds great! 

You could move to a cave house........cool in summer (no AC necessary) warm in winter (one log fire will keep you toasty).


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