# Fbar expat cpa



## Shehopxxx

Can anyone recommend a good FBAR CPA used to dealing with with British Expats now living in the USA.
I just found out about FBAR and am scarred to death, I didn't know I was supposed to declare my foreign accounts on my us tax return, my accountant never even asked me about them otherwise I would have. I have spoken to a lawyer who wants $20K to get me in the OVDP and file amended returns. I have no problem with filing the returns and paying the back taxes but I think this is outrageous to be treated like obvious tax evaders with millions in their overseas accounts trying to hide it. I have worked so hard all my life for the savings we have which we were keeping for our sons college fund and now we find this will cost us around $60 - $80. I have read about ovdp and then opting out to avoid the penalties, does anyone have experience of this for those who have made honest mistakes. I have made an honest mistake due to not knowing the law and will now be treated like a criminal. I think I need a really good CPA, would this be less than dealing with a lawyer?
Thanks for your help


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## Bevdeforges

Wait a minute - what is it that you haven't filed? The FBAR is a simple reporting of your foreign (i.e. non-US) accounts, entirely separately from your US income tax returns. In fact, there is little evidence to prove that they actually compare what you file on your FBARs against what you filed for your US tax returns. (Though that may be changing over the coming months and years.)

Unless you have neglected to file your US tax returns while living in the US, there is no reason to even consider the OVDP. If it's only the FBARs you haven't filed, you can back file those, indicating simply that you didn't know what the requirement was, and you'll be square with whoever it is that handles that. (It's separate from the IRS, though part of the Treasury Dept.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Shehopxxx

Thanks Bev,
We didn't file FBARs or report foreign income on our US taxes because we didn't know it was a requirement. Can we file 1040X for the past 4 years and FBARs without entering ovdp?
Thanks


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## diharv

I would not amend past tax returns and open a whole can of worms. I had to file an amended return for 2009 and I am still paying for it as of last month but hopefully it finally will come to a close. I would just file FBARs several years back and going forward and stay away from lawyers. Should cost you $0.00


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## Bevdeforges

It's up to you how you choose to handle it. But you can always just file the 1040X (especially if you owe little or no US tax on the foreign income - like because you paid tax elsewhere on it and can claim that tax as a credit) and indicate that you only just found out that you were supposed to include your foreign income.

Or, you can just file the FBARs and wait to see if the IRS finds your foreign income somehow. (Depends on the sources and the amounts involved and whether or not they actually generate any US taxes once foreign tax credits are taken into account.)

In any event, you obviously want to file "correctly" going forward. And, it's kind of hit and miss as to whether or not they'll find you out. There are a number of possible "outs" regarding the reporting of foreign income that may or may not apply. And frankly, unless there is something else "funny looking" on your returns, they don't particularly check one year against the last, at least not systematically.

It may also depend on what sort of visa you're on, as well as a few other factors.

Net-net, I'd just do the FBARs (since those are the current "in" thing) and see what happens. Chances are, nothing (or nothing much) will come of any of it unless the amounts involved are really significant.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

More details, please. How much income are we talking about here, and from which country or countries? "How big is this breadbox?"

For example, I think you're getting bad advice (so far) if these are large, previously undeclared bank accounts held in Switzerland that had significant, untaxed interest and/or dividends. (And frankly it strains credulity that you weren't aware you had to pay U.S. income tax on such income if that's the case.)

Give us a little better idea of the circumstances if you would.


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## StewartPatton

The way to handle this depends on your specific facts, which you should discuss with an experienced attorney.


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## someNri

Shehopxxx said:


> Thanks Bev,
> We didn't file FBARs or report foreign income on our US taxes because we didn't know it was a requirement. Can we file 1040X for the past 4 years and FBARs without entering ovdp?
> Thanks


Shehopxxx, Have you considered the "streamlined domestic compliance program?" for residents. In a similar quandary as you with unpaid tax of about 3.5k over last 3 yrs. I starting doing the right thing from 2013 returns, only option to fix previous 3 yrs seem to be to participate in the streamlined.


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## someNri

Bevdeforges said:


> ...
> And frankly, unless there is something else "funny looking" on your returns, they don't particularly che*ck one year against the last*, at least not systematically.
> 
> It may also depend on what sort of visa you're on, as well as a few other factors.
> ...
> Cheers,
> Bev


Bev, question on your comment above...
When I found about all this earlier this year, filed an extension for 2013 returns and did 2013 fbar correctly. Now my concern is if I report overseas interest income of about 6k all of a sudden/first time in my 2013 return that might trigger something. Esp since my 2012 had no foreign stuff reported. 
There is the streamlined program who's intent seem legitimate but being new there is little information on it's perils.


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## Bevdeforges

I don't know much about the streamlined program for residents, but the one for non-residents is actually a pretty efficient way to get yourself up to date. However, I thought the streamlined program is for those who haven't been filing at all. (The resident program may vary.)

Basically, what you need to do is to file amended returns and pay the back taxes and interest due. (Interest rates being what they are these last couple of years, this is definitely the time to consider getting straight.) You may be able to get them to waive the penalties - particularly if the amount of tax due is fairly small.

A "sudden" onset of $6000 in interest probably isn't really enough to generate too much interest on the part of the IRS, though. They're normally looking for much bigger game than that. And, if you check the rules, you may have foreign tax to offset some or all of the tax on that $6000, so the bite won't be as bad as you seem to think it will be.

Do the amendments and see what result you get before you worry about going "into a program" - it may be far less painful than you thought.
Cheers,
Bev


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## ForeignBody

As BBC says there is no way of giving advice without more information.


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## DavidMcKeegan

If the only thing you have neglected to do is file your FBAR's, then run as fast as you can from that lawyer as he/she is giving you some terrible advice and seems to be looking for some fast cash from you.

If all of your income has been properly reported to date, then just file the past six years of FBAR's and select (there will be a list of reasons why you did not file the FBAR) that you did not know you needed to file. As the FBAR is a separate requirement from your US tax return, there is no need to amend back returns just to get caught up on your FBAR'S.

We have caught up hundred's of people on their FBAR requirements and have yet to see a big penalty arise from people who willingly come forward with their information. It is really not as scary of a process as some lawyer's make it out to be. Get on track while you are still "under the radar" and then file properly moving forward.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!


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## someNri

Bevdeforges said:


> I don't know much about the streamlined program for residents, but the one for non-residents is actually a pretty efficient way to get yourself up to date. However, I thought the streamlined program is for those who haven't been filing at all. (The resident program may vary.)...
> ...
> Bev


Bev/David:
The streamlined program both for residents & non residents (*revised *Jun 18th 2014) is pretty much the same. For non-residents it can be used to catch up on unfiled previous returns or amend previous returns and pay what's due. For resides, it only allows amendments and on top there is a 5% penalty based on the highest year end balance..

U.S. Taxpayers Residing in the United States
U.S. Taxpayers Residing Outside the United States

Both of them require the tax payer to sign the "self-certification" for Non-willfulness. Attorneys say in the legal world, it seems that's a very slipper slope per them. May be they are right, that's the grey area. In self-certification it asks: "Provide specific reasons for your failure to report all income, pay all tax, and submit all required information returns, including FBARs."

In my case (a US resident) in my previous tax returns, I had wrongly selected No the question where it asks "did you have a financial interest in or signature authority over a financial account(such as a bank account, securities account, or brokerage account) located in a foreign country?". 

I am a US resident for tax purposes but have been a foreign temporary worker on a visa in the US. I did not have any clue till now that global income is reportable/taxable. With that backdrop, when the tax software used to ask the above question, I used to dismiss it with a "No". I thought that only applied to US citizens or permanent residents or for someone with a business interest overseas etc... In hindsight, I was wrong/mistaken. I don't know if I can give this as a reason in the certification. I had sent some portion of my saving to my home country in case I relocated back & India banks never used to send any 1099 or any statements to me. My hope is to get in compliance using the streamlined program but fear the slippery slope.


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## Bevdeforges

If you filed, but simply neglected to include your "foreign" income, I'd state simply and truthfully that you did not understand the requirement to report all your worldwide income. Whether or not they come back on you will depend (to some extent) on how much additional tax your omission generates, but even if you simply filed amended returns without benefit of the streamlined program, it's unlikely they are going to haul you off to jail or anything like that.

Keep your explanation for why you erred simple but truthful and chances are the worst that will happen is that you'll be assessed a penalty and told not to do it again.
Cheers,
Bev


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