# In all honesty what do you think....??!!



## justjane (Aug 18, 2012)

Thanks for reading everyone............

So after 10 or so years, back and forth to Catalonia and Aragon, I'm back here in the UK, hating every minute of it! My heart lies in Spain, my head keeps sending me back to the UK ! 

Realistically, where should a 'mature (ish)' single woman, with laid back Spanish rescue dog, be heading for in Spain these days. I can go anywhere, but only on a long term rental basis. Funds are a bit limited, but I can turn my hand to anything. I'm a fully insured house and petsitter. Can oversee projects for people, computer skills, people skills. I've run my own self catering accommodation, and done loads of things 'holiday' ish. 

What are ex-pats doing in the more populated area's nowadays. Do people just lock and leave, or are there long term rental opportunities around.

Are there any 'new' developments/ex pat area's that I should consider but may not know about, that haven't been deserted or are enjoying a new surge of interest. 

If anyone knows of anything that may be helpful, I'd be so pleased to hear from you. 

Thank you so much. JJ.


----------



## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

What do you mean by funds are limited?

If you can only go to Spain and make it work by working, you'd be unwise to consider this, the forum is littered with the reasons for why.

If you can afford to do it without working, the choice is yours.

There's plenty of long term rental properties on the market all over the place ranging from €200 a month for a 1 bed/studio to €1,000+ for a multi bedroom villa with swimming pool. Reckon on €4-500 a month running costs and you can do it on an income of €700+ a month.


----------



## Jumar (Mar 14, 2012)

If you are looking to come back to Spain with limited funds look at some of the volunteering organisations. 

I think the info is on one of the Sticky´s here.

Sometimes people want housesitters/animal sitters etc. while they have a break.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If finding work is important, it would be unwise to consider the Marbella-Estepona area, or anywhere in Malaga Province where unemployment is around 34%.

Many British immigrants have packed up and gone home. I get the impression that quite a few here are hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

Unless you have a secure and well-paid job lined up, have a UK business or are retired with ample funds, Spain isn't a good place at the moment.

You will hear of people who came and found a job and think that everyone else can also find a job, just like that. I hope they will be equally content a year down the line... But the facts are that times are hard, very many people are 'willing to turn their hand to anything' - which incidentally isn't really a good recommendation, if you think about it, and for every one or two who find work, many more fail to.

The best thing you could do is come and do some research. At worst you'll have had a holiday in a place you love, at best you may strike lucky, who knows...


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

justjane said:


> Thanks for reading everyone............
> 
> So after 10 or so years, back and forth to Catalonia and Aragon, I'm back here in the UK, hating every minute of it! My heart lies in Spain, my head keeps sending me back to the UK !
> 
> ...


In all honesty... I'm not really sure what you're asking!

If you want to advertise your services as a house/ pet sitter, I'm sure there are more specialised places to do it. On this forum in the sticky on the Spain page and pages like this one
MindMyHouse -

I don't really understand the other things you can do for a living. It sounds like you need a way to advertise yourself in more specific terms.

However, everything that you've said work wise sounds pretty temporary. I suppose that's what you've been doing for some time now as you say you've been travelling back and forth between Catalonia and Aragon for 10 years. So, do you want to stop travelling around? Do you want to be in one place with a steady job? If you do, I think you'd have to pick a different professional area to work in, that is if you need regular money coming in.

If not, why change?


----------



## justjane (Aug 18, 2012)

What are ex-pats doing in the more populated area's nowadays. Do people just lock and leave, or are there long term rental opportunities around.

Are there any 'new' developments/ex pat area's that I should consider but may not know about, that haven't been deserted or are enjoying a new surge of interest.



Thank you for everyone's replies so far. In answer to PESKY WESKY I think my questions were mainly as outlined above here. Of course I know about austerity in Spain, but you seasoned expats, with presumably many years of knowledge of different area's, and other expat's lifestyle's have much more insight than I could hope for into developing area's where things are coming back to life, or where there is renewed interest. 

Many thanks.


----------



## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

justjane said:


> What are ex-pats doing in the more populated area's nowadays. Do people just lock and leave, or are there long term rental opportunities around.
> 
> Are there any 'new' developments/ex pat area's that I should consider but may not know about, that haven't been deserted or are enjoying a new surge of interest.


Continually asking the same question isn't going to get you better answers. You seem to be deliberately avoiding the main issue here which is, to repeat again, do you have enough money to live on in Spain? Yes or no?

The answers to your questions are, a great many ex-pats are exiting Spain because they cannot afford to live there any more and the Spanish welfare system does not exist to allow them to. So they up and return to Britain.

Of those that are left, most will be retired pensioners with a guaranteed income to live on. Some of the others will have income from independent means and the others will be working, many with established jobs or might be self-employed teaching English. Of the rest, most will be clinging on by their finger nails.

To move out there without sufficient income to live on hoping against hope that somehow you might get lucky and find some unskilled work to do despite over a quarter of the country being unemployed and also looking for similar type opportunities is to simply court disaster.

But somehow, I don't think this is what you want to hear, which is why you keep on asking the same questions, because you don't like the answers.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

justjane said:


> What are ex-pats doing in the more populated area's nowadays. Do people just lock and leave, or are there long term rental opportunities around.
> 
> Are there any 'new' developments/ex pat area's that I should consider but may not know about, that haven't been deserted or are enjoying a new surge of interest.
> 
> ...


I've been here for well over four years so I guess that qualifies me as a 'seasoned immigrant' .

I would say that there are very very few 'developing areas' or 'areas coming back to life'. Quite the opposite here. I thought that there was still profitable activity in high-end areas like Marbella but James Hewitt's Polo House restaurant closed recently. In this quite affluent area we are surrounded by 'Se vende' signs....but then it's been like that ever since we moved here.

As I don't need work, my knowledge of the job market is second-hand but the news isn't good. There are so many 'turn my hand to anything' job adverts, in newspapers, on trees etc., some working for pitiful hourly rates and no doubt 'on the black'. It seems the authorities are cracking down on that as the local press this week has a couple of reports from different towns in Malaga Province of police raids on bars and restaurants in search of illegals. I've heard of people working for 4 euros an hour....take it or leave it.

Of course there will always be the lucky few who find work. Some of those lucky people might still be in work this time next year. Some might even have a permanent contract. But I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Sorry to sound so gloomy but that's how it is, sadly, and forecasters say nothing will change for the next ten years.


----------



## justjane (Aug 18, 2012)

Thank you for your replies, especially to MRYPG9. Very comprehensive and appreciated.
As you say, if the more perceived 'affluent' area's are not showing any signs of 'new shoots' then it will take a long time for recovery. It was the same in Barcelona recently, many shops and businesses closed down, just a stones throw from Las Ramblas, graffiti everywhere and a quiet air of gloom.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

justjane said:


> What are ex-pats doing in the more populated area's nowadays. Do people just lock and leave, or are there long term rental opportunities around.
> 
> Are there any 'new' developments/ex pat area's that I should consider but may not know about, that haven't been deserted or are enjoying a new surge of interest.
> 
> ...


The people I know or know of are 
A) Retired
B) English teachers with many years standing (20 years +) who have their own business/ are working in Universities and the like / self employed in companies
C) English teaching spin offs - publishers/ examining boards/ selling English courses internationally
C) Working in software companies (can't be more specific)
D) In the gaming industry mainly in Gibraltar

This is in Madrid and Orihuela, Madrid not referring to a high immigrant area, Orihuela being an almost entirely immigrant population.


----------



## Yettiman (Aug 14, 2013)

Hi, New here so please be gentle.

This thread intrigued me, I can see that the rental costs as above can be very varied (dependant upon what you get). But what might be an average running cost for a small Finca, partially off the grid (PV panels and Rain water collection) supplemented by Generator and Mains water top ups per month.

I know it is a difficult question as it depends on how much electricity and water (plus other Taxes) we incur, but I was wondering, if it was not too personal, if anyone was willing to share this info.

Just two oldies wanting to live the quite life.

Thanks

Tony


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

As you say, it all depends on so many factors...location being perhaps the most important.
Wherever you go away from more populated areas you will have to make important choices. Do you speak Spanish? Will you be dependent on a good fast internet connection? Will you want satellite tv? How important to you are the proximity of health care services?

Life in the campo in Spain is not to be compared with life in a country cottage in rural England. Here you have to consider factors such as vulnerability to fire, flood or mudslide, dangers not so prevalent in most of rural England.
Will you be dependent on public transport? Are there adequate shopping facilities? 
All these factors will have an effect on the cost, wherever you choose to settle.
Of course you may have considered all of that already in which case ignore the above and happy hunting!!


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

The Spanish government is too greedy on one hand and to generous on the other. The taxation rates in Spain are very high, and the tax-free allowances are very low, whilst Spanish State Pensions work out amongst the highest in the EU as a percentage of average earnings.

My wife and my joint pensions work out at circa £24K p/a less £600.00 UK tax, I can't quite understand the Spanish tax-free allowances, so won't lecture on something that I'm not 100% certain on (unlike some). We have unmortgaged property worth circa £800K and savings/investments of circa £150K (£80K in tax-free ISAS), our share dividends are payable net of 20% tax, but could be off set against our tax-free allowances had our joint pensions had been less than £21K p/a.

The Spanish taxman would have a real birthday with us, when he/she should be trying to tempt the likes of us to throw in our lot with Spain, but places head in sand.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

crookesey said:


> The Spanish government is too greedy on one hand and to generous on the other. The taxation rates in Spain are very high, and the tax-free allowances are very low, whilst Spanish State Pensions work out amongst the highest in the EU as a percentage of average earnings.
> 
> My wife and my joint pensions work out at circa £24K p/a less £600.00 UK tax, I can't quite understand the Spanish tax-free allowances, so won't lecture on something that I'm not 100% certain on (unlike some). We have unmortgaged property worth circa £800K and savings/investments of circa £150K (£80K in tax-free ISAS), our share dividends are payable net of 20% tax, but could be off set against our tax-free allowances had our joint pensions had been less than £21K p/a.
> 
> The Spanish taxman would have a real birthday with us, when he/she should be trying to tempt the likes of us to throw in our lot with Spain, but places head in sand.


Totally agree. Our net income is considerably more than yours -we pay much more UK tax between us - but our assets are less as we have been living high on the hog off the proceeds of sales of U.K. and foreign properties for over eight years...and loving it! We are spending as much as we can before popping our clogs as my son has no need of any inheritance.

I find the Spanish tax system to be more impenetrable than the Hampton Court Maze. You hear one thing from one 'specialist' and something totally different from another. Whatever you do, the likelihood is you'll be doing something that Hacienda doesn't like.

Oh for the days of cash-in-hand to be kept safe under the mattress...


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Totally agree. Our net income is considerably more than yours -we pay much more UK tax between us - but our assets are less as we have been living high on the hog off the proceeds of sales of U.K. and foreign properties for over eight years...and loving it! We are spending as much as we can before popping our clogs as my son has no need of any inheritance.
> 
> I find the Spanish tax system to be more impenetrable than the Hampton Court Maze. You hear one thing from one 'specialist' and something totally different from another. Whatever you do, the likelihood is you'll be doing something that Hacienda doesn't like.
> 
> Oh for the days of cash-in-hand to be kept safe under the mattress...


A lot is made of the 183 days rule, I had this idea and wondered if it would work. If we kept our UK residency and spent equal amounts of time in Spain and say Portugal or France, whilst using our son's address as our abode, whose going to want tax from us? We could use one of those currency cards that we charge up in the UK (as and when required), as far as Spain, Portugal or France are concerned we would just be a couple of retired Brits on holiday. We could continue to use the far fairer UK tax system whilst enjoying the delights of the Southern European clubs without paying their fees.

Property ownership would be daft, so it would be a good sized camper van and rental property, if we decided that it was getting a bit too much for us we could return home or settle abroad, albeit having far fewer assets than we have now.

Just a thought.


----------



## Claire la richarde (Jul 6, 2009)

crookesey said:


> A lot is made of the 183 days rule, I had this idea and wondered if it would work. If we kept our UK residency and spent equal amounts of time in Spain and say Portugal or France, whilst using our son's address as our abode, whose going to want tax from us? We could use one of those currency cards that we charge up in the UK (as and when required), as far as Spain, Portugal or France are concerned we would just be a couple of retired Brits on holiday. We could continue to use the far fairer UK tax system whilst enjoying the delights of the Southern European clubs without paying their fees.
> 
> Property ownership would be daft, so it would be a good sized camper van and rental property, if we decided that it was getting a bit too much for us we could return home or settle abroad, albeit having far fewer assets than we have now.
> 
> Just a thought.


I don't know about tax, but I think you'd have to be very careful about vehicle insurance and health insurance.


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Claire la richarde said:


> I don't know about tax, but I think you'd have to be very careful about vehicle insurance and health insurance.


Vehicle insurance would be no problem, I'd have to investigate buying a left hooker in Spain, Portugal or France, seems daft having a right hooker.

Wouldn't an EHIC card do the trick health care wise? Failing that Long Stay Travel Insurance is available for from 3 months to 18 months.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crookesey said:


> Vehicle insurance would be no problem, I'd have to investigate buying a left hooker in Spain, Portugal or France, seems daft having a right hooker.
> 
> Wouldn't an EHIC card do the trick health care wise? Failing that Long Stay Travel Insurance is available for from 3 months to 18 months.


the EHIC is OK for the first 3 months - after that you aren't considered to be on holiday any more... so you'd need some kind of insurance


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> the EHIC is OK for the first 3 months - after that you aren't considered to be on holiday any more... so you'd need some kind of insurance


Now you mention it I'm sure that I've heard that, anyway it would give us 21 months including the long stay jobby.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

crookesey said:


> A lot is made of the 183 days rule, I had this idea and wondered if it would work. If we kept our UK residency and spent equal amounts of time in Spain and say Portugal or France, whilst using our son's address as our abode, whose going to want tax from us? We could use one of those currency cards that we charge up in the UK (as and when required), as far as Spain, Portugal or France are concerned we would just be a couple of retired Brits on holiday. We could continue to use the far fairer UK tax system whilst enjoying the delights of the Southern European clubs without paying their fees.
> 
> Property ownership would be daft, so it would be a good sized camper van and rental property, if we decided that it was getting a bit too much for us we could return home or settle abroad, albeit having far fewer assets than we have now.
> 
> Just a thought.


I still have residency in the Czech Republic....but I don't agree with tax avoidance. Both in business and personal affairs we have always been scrupulously honest.
But the way HMRC behave....I've just received a demand for a large sum for UK tax dating back a few years. As I have always filled in my returns honestly and correctly, it was clearly a mistake on their part. I was given three different tax codes in the year in question. 
I have replied, politely telling them 'Go swivel' and suggesting they devote their energies and resources to chasing bigger fish..


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> I still have residency in the Czech Republic....but I don't agree with tax avoidance. Both in business and personal affairs we have always been scrupulously honest.
> But the way HMRC behave....I've just received a demand for a large sum for UK tax dating back a few years. As I have always filled in my returns honestly and correctly, it was clearly a mistake on their part. I was given three different tax codes in the year in question.
> I have replied, politely telling them 'Go swivel' and suggesting they devote their energies and resources to chasing bigger fish..


I wouldn't be doing anything illegal, if I obey the residency rules to the letter, and only pay tax in my country of residence then it's Spain's fault for not attracting me to take up residence.


----------



## dmret (Mar 12, 2013)

Good morning, re your comment 4-500 per month, where would this figure apply to? We are seriously looking to rent long term and we are coming out in October staying in Benferri for a month. Both retired, good pensions, not looking for any employment. Lastly, we have been researching this some time and the move is not wishfull thinking.
Thanks in advance


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

dmret said:


> Good morning, re your comment 4-500 per month, where would this figure apply to? We are seriously looking to rent long term and we are coming out in October staying in Benferri for a month. Both retired, good pensions, not looking for any employment. Lastly, we have been researching this some time and the move is not wishfull thinking.
> Thanks in advance


I'm not sure what you're referring to, but maybe you're asking about the prerequisites now needed to be able to live in Spain permanently??
Briefly you need to prove that you will have a certain amount of money monthly,. The amount varies from region to region, but seems to be around the 600euro mark per person. That doesn't necessarily mean that you won't need more to live on - that will depend.
If this is your query then I suggest you look at the FAQ sticky on the main Spain page, especially post one which will give you a lot of reading to get stuck into!!
PS if you have more questions it's better to open up a new thread.


----------

