# How much should I consider the Crit'Air rating when buying a car?



## rickjames8

So, my wife is now in France (I move in 12 days) and she's looking for a car. We're going to be living in Quimperle (population 12,000). This car we're looking for would be our main family car. We don't see ourselves driving to Paris (or other big cities) often, if at all. The trains are so much faster and nicer that we usually take them. 

Most of the cars we're looking at are small diesel Crit'Air2 cars. Which seems isn't restricted anywhere yet. But it seems the rollout is happening, and it's probably going to reach smaller cities someday, correct? Maybe not Quimperle anytime soon, but perhaps Quimper (somewhere we'd drive to for visiting family). 

Ideally, we'd want to have this car for 5-7 years, and then be able to sell it. How are people viewing the Crit'Air restrictions for people living in the countryside? Is a Crit'Air2 car going to be useable and/or sellable in 7 years? I don't think it's going to be that bad where we're living, but I thought I'd see what others think. Is it worth it to spend more for a Crit'Air1 car?


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## Bevdeforges

This is definitely one of those things where you'll have to evaluate your own needs (and potential needs). At the moment, CritAir 4 diesels are set to be prohibited altogether very soon in Paris (and, I believe, in a couple other large towns). Somewhere on the CritAir site you can find a listing of what is planned going forward - however these dates shift all over the place as conditions shift.

We recently ran into this situation a couple months ago when we had a family funeral to go to in Lille. Lille is under the CritAir program, though the program is a little bit less "strict" than the one in Paris. However, given that my husband's small van is a 4 (because it missed the cut off date by a few days for diesels), we were faced with having to decide how to negotiate around Paris (the Paris CritAir area extends into adjacent areas, including the Peripherique) and then, what to do with the car when we got to Lille. My hybrid is a 1, but I do everything in my power to avoid driving in and around Paris, and there was no way to be able to take the train up to the area for the funeral. Ultimately, other circumstances intervened so that we could gracefully bow out of attending - but you sort of never know what might pop up.

As to what the situation will be in 5 to 7 years, that's anyone's guess. Used cars are currently pretty expensive here, if only because of the long delivery times for new cars. But as the supply chains ease up, the push will be on again to try to move people away from diesels altogether - and in the current round of fuel price increases, diesel fuel can be more expensive than gasoline at times. And there has already been discussion of how little has been done to meet various Paris Accord goals and pledges. Net-net, you're probably OK for the next "few" years with a 2 rated car, but I wouldn't plan on being able to re-sell for much (though if you can, it will be a nice bonus).


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## EuroTrash

I suppose that considering the Crit'Air rating also has to be about considering your impact on the environment doesn't it, beyond the actual inconvenience to yourself. After all that is what it's all about.
I don't know how susceptible you are to this kind of thing, indeed I don't know the culture surrounding this in the US, but I am already starting to feel slightly guilty about driving a petrol and a diesel vehicle. With everyday cars I tend to buy them new or newish and drive them until they fall to pieces, I don't tend to upgrade or replace a functioning car, and my current car I've had for getting on 15 years, I'm hoping it will last for a few more and I have pretty much accepted that I will feel morally obliged to replace it with an EV when the time comes. But then probably that's in part compensation for wanting to cling my "classic" diesel campervan. 
But my point is that if a lot of people feel like me, and I think the government's messaging and potential initiatives will try to ensure that they do, then I suspect there may not be much of a market for second hand diesels in seven years time.


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## rynd2it

rickjames8 said:


> So, my wife is now in France (I move in 12 days) and she's looking for a car. We're going to be living in Quimperle (population 12,000). This car we're looking for would be our main family car. We don't see ourselves driving to Paris (or other big cities) often, if at all. The trains are so much faster and nicer that we usually take them.
> 
> Most of the cars we're looking at are small diesel Crit'Air2 cars. Which seems isn't restricted anywhere yet. But it seems the rollout is happening, and it's probably going to reach smaller cities someday, correct? Maybe not Quimperle anytime soon, but perhaps Quimper (somewhere we'd drive to for visiting family).
> 
> Ideally, we'd want to have this car for 5-7 years, and then be able to sell it. How are people viewing the Crit'Air restrictions for people living in the countryside? Is a Crit'Air2 car going to be useable and/or sellable in 7 years? I don't think it's going to be that bad where we're living, but I thought I'd see what others think. Is it worth it to spend more for a Crit'Air1 car?


Take a good hard look at the options for Electric or hybrids - the government is handing out cash incentives for such vehicles. It might even pay you to buy a very cheap diesel and then put it in part exchange for a new electric vehicle. My neighbour just did this and made out like a bandit on a new Hyundai.


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## Bevdeforges

rynd2it said:


> Take a good hard look at the options for Electric or hybrids - the government is handing out cash incentives for such vehicles. It might even pay you to buy a very cheap diesel and then put it in part exchange for a new electric vehicle. My neighbour just did this and made out like a bandit on a new Hyundai.


The one big caveat to this is that electric vehicles aren't necessarily "the" solution to the pollution issue on any level. We've currently got an EV on order - since mid January - and at one point the expected delivery date was "early October." (It has since been advanced to late next month.) Although it can be possible to recharge an EV at home without having to install an expensive charger, it depends on the electrical installation at home - and there is still not much of a charging infracture here in France, particularly out in the countryside.

I know when my husband was making his decision (because his current diesel won't pass another Controle Technique) we considered what our current driving patterns are (mostly short trips in the area) and that our house is wired for 3-phase (which is apparently what's required to do your charging at home with minimal new equipment). Add to that, we have my hybrid, which can be used for the (very) occasional long-haul travel we might do (like the aforementioned funeral - where a round trip to Lille and back could NOT be done on the range of the EV my husband is getting). 

You need to look at your overall situation before you can tell if it's "worth it" to go electric at this time. We're really excited about this new car, and also very pleased to be in the situation where it is possible and practical to go electric at this time. But there are situations where it may not be such a great idea.


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## BackinFrance

If you don't have 3 phase at home, you can still recharge your EV, BUT it will take 12 hours or more to fully recharge. That could be really inconvenient if you unexpectedly need to take a long trip. Then there are potential issues with power supply in France, which is primarily nuclear power based. Climate change itself significantly threatens this power source because the plants require cool water and cannot be cooled with warm water or no water at all, something that has already taken down some nuclear power points and is very likely to take out more this year and beyond. Drought is also negatively impacting a number of large French dams that provide hydrologists (green) power to the French electricity network.

That is not to say that people should continue to drive highly polluting vehicles. It is just that powering EVs may not be either easy or low cost and ideally you still need to limit your mileage where possible. Oh, and the lighter your EV and the load you carry in it, the less power it will use.


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## Peasant

If I were you I'd go for a Euro6-standard (CritAir 1) petrol/essence/gasoline powered car, particularly if you want to be able to sell it in 5-7 years. Diesel is on it's way out and will be dead by 2030 so who's going to want to buy it in 2027? A hybrid would be a good idea too.


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## rickjames8

Thanks for all the great replies. I think I'll try to focus on the petrol/gasoline cars then. I had looked at EVs, and we may end up getting one, but we would like a car that could make longer trips too, as we're keen to explore our area. 
As for environmental impact - I completely agree that this purchase should try to do what's best for the planet. I guess my thinking was that I'm effectively replacing my 3.0L minivan in the US (already a much more efficient vehicle than the hoard of SUVs that surround me daily) with a 1.5L diesel vehcile that gets much better mileage. I took comfort in the fact that it felt like a step in a positive direction. But it seems that this might not be enough to keep me in a driveable car as long as I'd want. The thing is, it seems some of the comparable petrol cars are also Crit'Air2. So if the Crit'Air rating will expire the car at the same time regardless of the fuel type, I guess it doesn't so much matter which one I choose.

An (annoying) thing I've found is that it seems the Crit'Air field in leboncoin is user specified. So doing a search for Crit'Air1 cars yeilds some results that are clearly not, such as older diesel cars. Is there an accurate way to determine what the actual classification is?


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## rynd2it

rickjames8 said:


> Thanks for all the great replies. I think I'll try to focus on the petrol/gasoline cars then. I had looked at EVs, and we may end up getting one, but we would like a car that could make longer trips too, as we're keen to explore our area.


How long? Most electric vehicles will now do 400km on one charge which is the same as petrol powered (or better). Just need to ensure there is a fast charge available at the destination, stop for lunch etc. 
Second best is a self-charging Hybrid, I've had two since 2008 and would never go back. Once you've driven an electric traction vehicle you'll never go back


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## rickjames8

Our other car is a 2012 Prius, which is I guess what you'd refer to as a self-charing hybrid. Yes, we love this car. I had considered shipping it, and guess I still could (time hasn't run out on that option yet). I figure I could sell it for $8500US, it would cost me $1800 to ship, and I believe this same car would cost me about EUR11,000 to buy. So it works out a little better to ship it. The issue with shipping is that it would take a couple months to arrive, so we'd need to factor the cost to rent during that time.


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## Bevdeforges

Shipping a car from the US usually isn't a particularly great idea. We've had lots of folks through here discover that vehicles built for the US market may not meet European standards without some significant (and expensive!) replacement of equipment. 

OTOH, hybrids tend to "age" much better than standard petrol powered cars - due to having fewer parts, etc. You may want to check the Toyota (i.e. dealership) site for used hybrids ("Occasions hybride") to see what is available. There are quite a few more models that have been available in hybrid versions here than what you get back in the States. Both the Yaris and the Auris are available as hybrids and have been for years. (Auris is what Toyota replaced the Corolla with quite a few years back - though I see they have recently brought back the Corolla, in both petrol and hybrid versions). 

At this point, all used cars are selling for a steep premium, due to availability issues with used cars. Hybrids have an excellent maintenance record and there are lots of makes and models of hybrids on the market. 

As far as the CritAir designation is concerned, you can often determine the correct CritAir category if you have the make, model and year first in service. The carte grise (car registration certificate) here indicates the Euro category which is (of course) not the same as the CritAir category. But ideally, the proper CritAir category can be obtained if you have the vehicle identification number. It isn't a "tested" determination - it goes strictly by make, model, fuel and year placed in first service.


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## rynd2it

rickjames8 said:


> Our other car is a 2012 Prius, which is I guess what you'd refer to as a self-charing hybrid. Yes, we love this car. I had considered shipping it, and guess I still could (time hasn't run out on that option yet). I figure I could sell it for $8500US, it would cost me $1800 to ship, and I believe this same car would cost me about EUR11,000 to buy. So it works out a little better to ship it. The issue with shipping is that it would take a couple months to arrive, so we'd need to factor the cost to rent during that time.


Don't even think about shipping a US spec car to France, I researched this about 12 years ago it's a nightmare. There is a thread I wrote around here somewhere


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## Poloss

We have a 2018 diesel car with a yellow critair 2 sticker.
Even in the worst of the 2019, 2020 pollution peaks in Paris or Lyon critair2 cars were never banned


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## rickjames8

rynd2it said:


> Don't even think about shipping a US spec car to France, I researched this about 12 years ago it's a nightmare. There is a thread I wrote around here somewhere


https://www.expatforum.com/threads/registering-a-uk-car-in-france.1485374/#post-14923304 This one, I take it.


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## rynd2it

rickjames8 said:


> https://www.expatforum.com/threads/registering-a-uk-car-in-france.1485374/#post-14923304 This one, I take it.


No, that's for a UK car, I think the one was titled Bringing a Car to France


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## Bevdeforges

Poloss said:


> We have a 2018 diesel car with a yellow critair 2 sticker.
> Even in the worst of the 2019, 2020 pollution peaks in Paris or Lyon critair2 cars were never banned


The CritAir 4 category affects diesel passenger cars with a service date before January 1, 2011 - of which there are still plenty on the road. It's those diesels that will be banned full time - not just during pollution peaks - starting either July 1st or maybe it's now September 1st. Oh wait, now I see it's January 1, 2023. At least that's the plan for Paris and surrounding areas. Anyhow, the situation is, shall we say, a bit up in the air.


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## rickjames8

Bevdeforges said:


> The CritAir 4 category .... will be banned full time - not just during pollution peaks -.... for Paris and surrounding areas.


So does that mean that most of these cars will end up in the countryside? I haven't seen any indication that these cars will get banned outside of major cities, although it's logical to see it going that way someday.


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## Bevdeforges

rickjames8 said:


> So does that mean that most of these cars will end up in the countryside? I haven't seen any indication that these cars will get banned outside of major cities, although it's logical to see it going that way someday.


The EU has just voted to end the production and sale of petrol powered passenger cars in 2035 (or sometime thereabouts). Seems a bit late to me, but once that happens they're then going to have to do something about getting the older petrol vehicles off the roads altogether. They do seem to be making it up as they go along.


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## bhamham

Are replacement batteries in hybrids costly? How long do they usually last?


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## rynd2it

bhamham said:


> Are replacement batteries in hybrids costly? How long do they usually last?


Yes but no idea, mine are 15 years old


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## Bevdeforges

bhamham said:


> Are replacement batteries in hybrids costly? How long do they usually last?


I'm told to plan on "about" 1000€ to replace the batteries roughly every 10 years. (May be more now, since that figure is at least 5 or 6 years old.) My hybrid is 11 y.o. this year and so far, so good. No indication that I'll need to replace them any time soon - and the only "major" repair I've had to do on the car has been to replace the EGR valve (just recently, in fact) because I don't drive the car enough to burn off the deposits that build up on the thing over time.


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## rynd2it

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm told to plan on "about" 1000€ to replace the batteries roughly every 10 years. (May be more now, since that figure is at least 5 or 6 years old.) My hybrid is 11 y.o. this year and so far, so good. No indication that I'll need to replace them any time soon - and the only "major" repair I've had to do on the car has been to replace the EGR valve (just recently, in fact) because I don't drive the car enough to burn off the deposits that build up on the thing over time.


As part of the annual service, Lexus (and I believe Toyota) do a battery health check for the first 10 years; I've never had any indication of a problem. Having said that, they'll probably pack up next week


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## BackinFrance

L'Europe interdit les voitures thermiques… sauf celles de luxe


Sous la pression des eurodéputés italiens, le Parlement européen a exempté la filière automobile de luxe de l’interdiction de la vente des voitures thermiques d’ici à 2035. C’est une exception qui passe mal, un privilège accordé aux biens de luxe et à ceux qui les consomment. Le Parlement...




reporterre.net





There has been an amendment to the EU law exempting luxury cars.


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