# 190 - Natural Justice letter



## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

Dear All,

Just need to update about my case. I have applied for 190 visa on Jan 2016. But i received natural justification on November stating that the letter was not issued by my HR. DIBP checked with my company and also with my past companies. 
They even sent the documents which i submitted to my HR. The issue here is i didnt issue official letter from my current employer(thought that it will affect my promotions & perks). So i have issued the letter from my supervisor. 

Naturally my boss called me with the letter i submitted. I accepted my mistake and requested my HR to issue official letter. 

I have submitted to my HR. 

Now i received my visa grant on dec 2016.

just FYI its always better to get official letter from your HR.

Rgds,
RK


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

this post is really helpful, thanks for updating

wish you good luck for Australian endeavors


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## Rajaastha (Jun 11, 2016)

rk2oz said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Just need to update about my case. I have applied for 190 visa on Jan 2016. But i received natural justification on November stating that the letter was not issued by my HR. DIBP checked with my company and also with my past companies.
> They even sent the documents which i submitted to my HR. The issue here is i didnt issue official letter from my current employer(thought that it will affect my promotions & perks). So i have issued the letter from my supervisor.
> ...


Rk congratulations for getting the grand.

Can you please explain in details about your CO contacts ,replay etc.

Thank you.


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## enygma (Feb 1, 2015)

rk2oz said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Just need to update about my case. I have applied for 190 visa on Jan 2016. But i received natural justification on November stating that the letter was not issued by my HR. DIBP checked with my company and also with my past companies.
> They even sent the documents which i submitted to my HR. The issue here is i didnt issue official letter from my current employer(thought that it will affect my promotions & perks). So i have issued the letter from my supervisor.
> ...


Congrats mate, good to hear that you finally got this resolved. 
Btw, did you submit the statutory declaration from your supervisor or was it a letter on company's letter head?


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

rk2oz said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Just need to update about my case. I have applied for 190 visa on Jan 2016. But i received natural justification on November stating that the letter was not issued by my HR. DIBP checked with my company and also with my past companies.
> They even sent the documents which i submitted to my HR. The issue here is i didnt issue official letter from my current employer(thought that it will affect my promotions & perks). So i have issued the letter from my supervisor.
> ...


Congratulations RK and thanks for very nice update to all of us.
Such cases gives us HOPE.

However, it would be great, if you can provide us more details & timelines of your case, if its not much trouble. LIke, who was the CO? date of NJL? What type of Exact docs you submitted? Was the NJL sent over roles & duties in your company?


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## Kamboj (Feb 12, 2014)

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How much time it took for your visa grant after submiting Natural Justice Reply. For me it has been 53 days since i submitted Natural Justice Letter Reply.



Sent from mTalk


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## Greg1946 (Nov 20, 2015)

Kamboj said:


> Error: net_http_client_execution_error
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems like nov 2016.he has mentioned in his note


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## desideep (Jul 15, 2015)

I received Notice of Natural Justice in March 2016, replied to it in the first week and i am still waiting.


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

enygma said:


> Congrats mate, good to hear that you finally got this resolved.
> Btw, did you submit the statutory declaration from your supervisor or was it a letter on company's letter head?


The letter was submitted in company letterhead. As per the company policy, my supervisor can issue letter for gatepass and operation related transactions. He cannot issue for bank/govt transactions which willbe done by HR. DIBP directly sent the document i uploaded to my HR. Then my HR forwarded the same to my department head. As per my company law, it is an offence. Luckily, since i had a good relationship, they provided official letter.


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

desideep said:


> I received Notice of Natural Justice in March 2016, replied to it in the first week and i am still waiting.


To be precise, i replied to my natural justice on Nov 1st week. and it took 45 days. I suggest to wait for sometime then followup.


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

I dont know if it is safe to reveal CO details. I replied to NJL in 24 days.


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

desideep said:


> I received Notice of Natural Justice in March 2016, replied to it in the first week and i am still waiting.


Hi Desideep,

FYI. I have submitted as much supporting documents(relevant to NJL )as I can along with my HR letter. this will help the CO to decide.

You can followup also.


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

guys can you clear this please. Many of us havent submitted HR letter, but letter from our supervisors and direct bosses. I dont think that they give NJL for such cases, but this is the first case i have heard of that this happened. am i right that this doesnt happen with everyone?


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

mekabubu said:


> guys can you clear this please. Many of us havent submitted HR letter, but letter from our supervisors and direct bosses. I dont think that they give NJL for such cases, but this is the first case i have heard of that this happened. am i right that this doesnt happen with everyone?


It depends. DIBP verified my HR if the letter has been issued by the company. Obviously, HR will reply no, it was not issued by them. Then NJL Follow. I guess, this is what happened in my case. May be i submitted in Letter head which could be one reason.


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

rk2oz said:


> It depends. DIBP verified my HR if the letter has been issued by the company. Obviously, HR will reply no, it was not issued by them. Then NJL Follow. I guess, this is what happened in my case. May be i submitted in Letter head which could be one reason.


it took 11 months to recieve NJL. may i know when did they do the job verification because that is a very long gap.


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## Abubakr (May 10, 2016)

Youre lucky working in a very nice company, if it happened to me i would have been fired me and my supervisor


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## Abubakr (May 10, 2016)

mekabubu said:


> guys can you clear this please. Many of us havent submitted HR letter, but letter from our supervisors and direct bosses. I dont think that they give NJL for such cases, but this is the first case i have heard of that this happened. am i right that this doesnt happen with everyone?


Another guy here with us had the same problem and got a njl and got fired from his company he and his manager


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

mekabubu said:


> it took 11 months to recieve NJL. may i know when did they do the job verification because that is a very long gap.


Yes true. They have verified almost in all the companies i worked(multiple countries). Since i had someone in HR i came to know that they verified. All other companies i provided the document from HR except current one(thinking that i will not be considered for future projects and promotions). But they found it.


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## ITProfessional26 (Dec 13, 2016)

Guys, submitting any fake document would definitely create problem. What I have understood here is that if anyone pretends that the letter has been issued by HR (Using Company's letterhead) then it may lead to serious problems because when DIBP would verify it from the related HR, they would obviously refuse.

Also, getting the notarized letters from fellow colleagues or immediate manager isn't an issue at all. In some cases, HR is genuinely not able to release such letters (Company Policy, or other XYZ factors). Plus, to support it, one should submit salary slips, ITR's, appointment/appraisal/relieving/experience certificates, etc. These would justify and support plus DIBP would be able to understand the genuineness of such cases.

I hope it makes sense, if someone differs, please elucidate.

Thanks..


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

ITProfessional26 said:


> Guys, submitting any fake document would definitely create problem. What I have understood here is that if anyone pretends that the letter has been issued by HR (Using Company's letterhead) then it may lead to serious problems because when DIBP would verify it from the related HR, they would obviously refuse.
> 
> Also, getting the notarized letters from fellow colleagues or immediate manager isn't an issue at all. In some cases, HR is genuinely not able to release such letters (Company Policy, or other XYZ factors). Plus, to support it, one should submit salary slips, ITR's, appointment/appraisal/relieving/experience certificates, etc. These would justify and support plus DIBP would be able to understand the genuineness of such cases.
> 
> ...


Amazingly said... I feel little better now as I have submitted all those docs which you said in the second para, coz in my company, HR or the employer is not authorized to issue letters outside the organization, there is no such policy to share roles & duties. 

So I m glad and little relieved; as earlier I had many doubts seeing ppl getting rejection on letters from managers.


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## ITProfessional26 (Dec 13, 2016)

No need to worry at all, DIBP would only reject the fraudulent cases wherein the letters have been prepared and submitted without any consent from HR / Manager, etc.

Plus any genuine person would definitely submit the related salary slips, ITR's, appointment/appraisal/relieving/experience certificates, etc which would further prove the authenticity of the claim.


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

guys need some info, my manager got an email for verification. it was asked i perform all the duties listed in the exp letter. i think he replied to the email and mentioned some of the duties mentioned in the letter as it was a long list of duties. the email had the letter attached. do i need to worry about receiving NJL, because it has been 4 month since verification and i dont know what else could be holding up my application.
thanks


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## enygma (Feb 1, 2015)

mekabubu said:


> guys need some info, my manager got an email for verification. it was asked i perform all the duties listed in the exp letter. i think he replied to the email and mentioned some of the duties mentioned in the letter as it was a long list of duties. the email had the letter attached. do i need to worry about receiving NJL, because it has been 4 month since verification and i dont know what else could be holding up my application.
> thanks


If I may ask, who issued the letter was it the HR or the Manager? Also, was the letter on Company Letter Head or was it a Statutory declaration from the Manager?


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## mekabubu (Mar 26, 2016)

enygma said:


> If I may ask, who issued the letter was it the HR or the Manager? Also, was the letter on Company Letter Head or was it a Statutory declaration from the Manager?


letter was on company letter head and issue by my manager, there is no HR department in my organisation.


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## enygma (Feb 1, 2015)

mekabubu said:


> letter was on company letter head and issue by my manager, there is no HR department in my organisation.


Well this could possibly be one of the reasons for delay. From what I have observed, in cases where the letter has been issued on Company Letter Head by anyone other that HR, DIBP wants to be sure of the fact that the person has the Authority to issue such a letter.
In your case I am not sure how are they going to verify this, since there is no HR. Try checking with folks in legal (or someone in leadership) if they have received any such request.

This inference is based on my observation only and there could very well be some other reason for this delay.


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

enygma said:


> Well this could possibly be one of the reasons for delay. From what I have observed, in cases where the letter has been issued on Company Letter Head by anyone other that HR, DIBP wants to be sure of the fact that the person has the Authority to issue such a letter.
> In your case I am not sure how are they going to verify this, since there is no HR. Try checking with folks in legal (or someone in leadership) if they have received any such request.
> 
> This inference is based on my observation only and there could very well be some other reason for this delay.


Yes may b true.


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

mekabubu said:


> guys need some info, my manager got an email for verification. it was asked i perform all the duties listed in the exp letter. i think he replied to the email and mentioned some of the duties mentioned in the letter as it was a long list of duties. the email had the letter attached. do i need to worry about receiving NJL, because it has been 4 month since verification and i dont know what else could be holding up my application.
> thanks


If the manager replied positively then you dont have to worry. 
In case of dispute only then you will receive NJL.


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## dreamliner (Mar 3, 2015)

mekabubu said:


> letter was on company letter head and issue by my manager, there is no HR department in my organisation.


Not all the organization have HR department.

But since you have manager who signed on the letter head then it is clear that above manager there must be a power who authorizes your manager. Possibly dibp is checking whether your manager is authorized to sign or may not be checking at all.

Organization system and policies are varies company to company. 

So, friend don't be scared. It's all part of their process. If your manager replied properly to dibp no worries.

Good luck for grant.

Sent from my Lenovo using Tapatalk


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

ITProfessional26 said:


> Guys, submitting any fake document would definitely create problem. What I have understood here is that if anyone pretends that the letter has been issued by HR (Using Company's letterhead) then it may lead to serious problems because when DIBP would verify it from the related HR, they would obviously refuse.
> 
> Also, getting the notarized letters from fellow colleagues or immediate manager isn't an issue at all. In some cases, HR is genuinely not able to release such letters (Company Policy, or other XYZ factors). Plus, to support it, one should submit salary slips, ITR's, appointment/appraisal/relieving/experience certificates, etc. These would justify and support plus DIBP would be able to understand the genuineness of such cases.
> 
> ...


What appears to have happened is that OP didn't ask HR for a company headed letter as he/she thought it might affect future promotion chances. Instead he/she asked their manager to provide a letter on headed notepaper. In this particular instance the company policy forbade general staff from representing the company in this way on headed paper. In other words, the manager is not a valid signatory for this sort of document. When DIBP checked with HR, they said this letter was not a valid document. Luckily HR took it no further and issued a letter, and DIBP accepted it. A close call. Do be careful asking managers to sign letters: they ARE valid evidence IF the company allows this as policy.


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## pramin (Dec 31, 2016)

I received natural Justice letter because my former company has been closed; verification failed.
I have submitted letter from my reporting manager at that time, and I am still awaiting for visa. 
I hope this will solve the problem of verification.


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## Rajaastha (Jun 11, 2016)

pramin said:


> I received natural Justice letter because my former company has been closed; verification failed.
> I have submitted letter from my reporting manager at that time, and I am still awaiting for visa.
> I hope this will solve the problem of verification.


Pray that you will get grant soon

Have you give any details like ,that company is closed with any proof.

When you applied ?

When you got NJ?


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## rk2oz (Apr 6, 2015)

Hi Pramin,

Submit maximum documents you can to proof that you were working with that company such as, letter of intent, any promotion advise, payslip, appraisal documents, bank statement , tax details, your EPF etc. 




pramin said:


> I received natural Justice letter because my former company has been closed; verification failed.
> I have submitted letter from my reporting manager at that time, and I am still awaiting for visa.
> I hope this will solve the problem of verification.


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

any updates this week?


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

desideep said:


> I received Notice of Natural Justice in March 2016, replied to it in the first week and i am still waiting.


Any news ?


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## Sai_Lakshmi (Sep 6, 2015)

visa190qld said:


> Any news ?


Hi,

I submitted and uploaded my NLJ document on 21th Jan 2017. Still yet to get the reply and no employment verification too.

Regards,
Sai


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

Guys Any Updates this week or last week?


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## sat123 (Feb 22, 2016)

pramin said:


> I received natural Justice letter because my former company has been closed; verification failed.
> I have submitted letter from my reporting manager at that time, and I am still awaiting for visa.
> I hope this will solve the problem of verification.


Have you claimed point s for this company? I have similar situation that my company is closed, but I am not claiming points for it, so should I worry?


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

desideep said:


> I received Notice of Natural Justice in March 2016, replied to it in the first week and i am still waiting.


HI,

Any update ? Its almost 1 year since NJL reply.


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## kanez (Mar 14, 2017)

I got one official letter from HR to certify that I'm with the company and another letter from my ex-boss to list out my R&R. Is it ok?


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## i90087 (May 14, 2017)

HI,folks

Dose Anyone got updates ? Its almost 4 months since NJL reply.


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

i am waiting since got redo medical request in May End. waiting since.


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## visa190qld (Aug 11, 2016)

Finally i got golden Email yesterday. Thank you every one to share knowledge and thank you Expat forum Team for providing nice platform. Thank you all who told me "be patience" ... Cheers !!


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## arunomax (Sep 7, 2015)

Congratulations, very happy for you.  Long and struggling journey over now.


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## worldking (Jan 9, 2017)

Hi.., 

My previous company supervisor resigned his job recently and currently working in new company . Actually, he is the one gave experience letter (company letter head) when I was quit my job. So, I should update CO regarding my sup new email ID or phone number ? 

Because, he only know my RnR exactly . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Simran_1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Hi,

What is the status now??



mekabubu said:


> guys need some info, my manager got an email for verification. it was asked i perform all the duties listed in the exp letter. i think he replied to the email and mentioned some of the duties mentioned in the letter as it was a long list of duties. the email had the letter attached. do i need to worry about receiving NJL, because it has been 4 month since verification and i dont know what else could be holding up my application.
> thanks


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## Simran_1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Hi,

What is the status now ??




pramin said:


> I received natural Justice letter because my former company has been closed; verification failed.
> I have submitted letter from my reporting manager at that time, and I am still awaiting for visa.
> I hope this will solve the problem of verification.


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