# Fiance Visa concerns, help needed.



## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

Hello everyone,

I have a few concerns regarding my Fiances Spouse Visa application and hope to receive advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

We met in London in January of this year, she was here on a Student Visa, she is 24 and from Mexico. I'm an English citizen myself and have lived here my whole life, i'm 25 years old. Around 4 months ago her Visa expired, she appealed for an extension but was refused under maintenance funds and the fact that her mothers (sponsors) birth certificate and bank statements had not been translated from Spanish to English. She studied English and Music during her stay and worked for a catering agency doing 20-40 hours a week (this is also a concern with her application - we believe declaring excess hours could complicate things) I spoke to a friend who is a Solicitor in law and he suggested we didn't appeal. It was her birthday around 2 weeks before she was due to fly home, I took her out for a romantic meal, got down on one knee and proposed  I thought it would lovely if we could get married in Mexico, and we intend to have another ceremony in England in 2011  We'll be wed within the first week of December, so we have a month left now to prepare paperwork for her application.

We should have enough evidence to show ongoing contact - telephone bills, many photos (plus pics of the wedding and honeymoon), emails, Facebook messages (i'm not sure if these are acceptable?), I also have catalogue receipts listing items i'd bought for her birthday and thought these may be valid if I have pictures of the items along with the receipts? I'll also send in a supporting letter, describing our intentions for our future together in London, how we met originally and so on. Will this all be enough to satisfy the ECO?

Now, my main concerns:

1. Is the ECO likely to find out about the excess hours she had worked whilst on a Student Visa? If so, will this be held against her application?

2. Accomodation - I presently live in a 3 bed council flat with my mother. My mother would gladly put my fiances' name on the tenancy agreement, however she feels the council here would not allow it (for many reasons) and it seem I need to show evidence of both. I think it would be better if I moved, however I can only afford a flat share at present. If, for example the flat share is 3 bed and already has 3 tenants (including myself), is the ECO likely to see this as overcrowding? Bearing in mind we will indeed be sharing the room. And is the landlord likely to agree to her name being registered on the tenancy? She'll be working so she will be able to afford her own rent.

3. Finance - Now this is my greatest concern. I have been living from a £1500 approved overdraft facility for close to 2 years now. Right before payday every month I am just under £1500 overdrawn. I work full time, earning a minimum of £1210 per month after tax, however I can work enough overtime to reach £1700, maybe more. I've read that I must show £102.75 in my account every week for 3 months (3 bank statements) after paying rent, council tax and utility bills to support us. I also have £500 credit card debt (i'm paying £13 minimum a month and the balance is still £500) plus a £1000 bank loan (I pay back £60 a month for this) and these show on my bank statements. I also owe around £1200 to a catalogue, however I do not pay this by debit so it doesn't show on the statements nor the receipts i'll provide as evidence of ongoing contact.

I would like to know if the ECO will look at me as the sole provider to us both? It is likely that my fiance can show that she has guaranteed work almost immediately upon arrival to London, earning between £800-£1000 per month. She can contact her old catering agency and receive confirmation of guaranteed employment, will the ECO consider this? And will the ECO want to see a certain amount in her own account in the application?

We have decided it best to delay her application until I am able to clear my debts, reduce my overdraft (hopefully eliminate) and arrange suitable accomodation. We feel the chances of refusal are high if these requirements are not met.

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to read my concerns (apologies for the length) and hope to receive advice and opinions on the issues in question.

Thank you so much everybody.


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## ladyliberty (Oct 6, 2010)

Hurley50 said:


> Will this all be enough to satisfy the ECO?


No. You will need to show a variety of documents showing that you can support yourselves without your soon-to-be-wife relying on public funds. Check out this site for details re: supporting documents for a spouse visa. 


1. DO NOT try to hide this from the ECO. No one can tell you how likely it is that they will find out, but if they do find out, she will be in more trouble than had she disclosed it in the first place. 

2. From the UKBA website: _A house is considered to be overcrowded if 2 persons aged 10 years or more of opposite sexes, who are not living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room. The Act also details the maximum number of people allowed for a given number of rooms or a given room floor area.
Account is taken only of rooms with a floor area larger than 50 square feet and rooms of a type used either as a living room or bedroom. Rooms such as kitchens or bathrooms are excluded.

For the purpose of the Act:
a child under one does not count as a person.
a child aged 1-10 years counts as only half a person._


3. Finance - The ECO will not look to you as the sole provider if she can provide evidence that she can obtain employment easily. I would suggest she includes a copy of a CV and copies of job postings in your area for which she would qualify, or a promisary letter or contract from the catering company. Then you can make a budget (not required, but can be helpful if finances appear tight) that reflects your outgoings vs salary and her potential salary (based on the job postings or an employment contract ) that shows you will have the required £102 left over after rent and council tax. The ECO does not care if she has any savings as long as you can show that you can support yourselves without access to public funds.


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## KayKay (Oct 2, 2010)

Im not sure but on the Uk website it says in order to get a fiance visa you must have known eachother-been in a relationship for 2 years..I dont know how long you have known her but it said you met in Jan..

I would double check because Im going through a fiance visa too..And just recommend really reading the Uk website before applying because its a lot of money and you dont want to get denied.

Also she'll need to take an English test if she can not speak English..

Im also confused because if you get married in Mexico in December and have a ceremony here, I dont know where you are going to live, Uk or Mexico? Im guessing Uk..

k hope that helps, but I would double check with the website.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

KayKay said:


> Im not sure but on the Uk website it says in order to get a fiance visa you must have known eachother-been in a relationship for 2 years..I dont know how long you have known her but it said you met in Jan.


2 years is the minimum length of time an unmarried partner needs to have cohabited with their partner before applying. For fiancé(s) visa, you only need to have met, even just once, and no stipulation about how long you must have known each other.
UK Border Agency | Fiance(e)s and proposed civil partners


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## KayKay (Oct 2, 2010)

ook than he will have no problem with that but she still needs to take an english test but considering his fiance lived in the uk on another visa she must know a lot of english so shell probably have no problem


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

Seems i've made a mistake here. The subject should read "Spouse" not "Fiance". Sorry guys.


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

ladyliberty said:


> No. You will need to show a variety of documents showing that you can support yourselves without your soon-to-be-wife relying on public funds.
> 
> Seems i've made a mistake here too...I meant will this evidence be enough to show ongoing contact? We will wait until both of our financial situations have improved before applying, at which point we will provide the relevant documentation. I will also show evidence of suitable accomodation, police and relevant medical checks, relevant I.D, proof of my current employment, supportive letters/statements from myself and family and as much else as possible. Thanks for the link, it's very useful.
> 
> ...


(My reply is within the quoted text. I'm no forum expert lol..)


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## ladyliberty (Oct 6, 2010)

Hurley50 said:


> Seems i've made a mistake here. The subject should read "Spouse" not "Fiance". Sorry guys.


The language test requirement still stands, as does the advice in my previous post. Here is the UKBA's page re: language tests.


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## ladyliberty (Oct 6, 2010)

Re: the over-working and over-earnings - I am sorry, but as I am not am immigration laywer or advisor, I am not going to comment on how best to disclose this, but I will repeat what I said before - if you do not disclose it and the ECO finds out, you will be in much more (potential) trouble than if you tried to hide it. Decpetion is the one think the UKBA hates more than anything else. You may want to seek the help of a lawyer in this instance. 

Re: housing - as long as the two of you have a room to yourselves (that you can share) and that room is larger than 50 sq ft, then this will be ok.


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

KayKay said:


> Im not sure but on the Uk website it says in order to get a fiance visa you must have known eachother-been in a relationship for 2 years..I dont know how long you have known her but it said you met in Jan..
> 
> I would double check because Im going through a fiance visa too..And just recommend really reading the Uk website before applying because its a lot of money and you dont want to get denied.
> 
> ...


So sorry, the title should read "Spouse" not "Fiance", silly mistake! Yes we met in January 2010, is it a fact that we must have been in a relationship and lived together for 2 years prior to application?

She can speak English fluently, in fact her mother is an English teacher (we intend to show this in the application) and she also has documentation to show she can speak English.

We'll be living in London. We thought it would be nice to have a second ceremony here (as unfortunately none of my family or friends can attend the ceremony in Mexico)

Thanks for your input and advice and I wish you success with your fiance visa application!


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## ladyliberty (Oct 6, 2010)

Hurley50 said:


> So sorry, the title should read "Spouse" not "Fiance", silly mistake! Yes we met in January 2010, is it a fact that we must have been in a relationship and lived together for 2 years prior to application?


No.


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

Joppa said:


> 2 years is the minimum length of time an unmarried partner needs to have cohabited with their partner before applying. For fiancé(s) visa, you only need to have met, even just once, and no stipulation about how long you must have known each other.


Is that a fact? Could we be refused on these grounds alone even if we had satisfied every other requirement?


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

Thank you for your immediate responses LadyLuck.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hurley50 said:


> Is that a fact? Could we be refused on these grounds alone even if we had satisfied every other requirement?


For unmarried partner visa, any cohabitation less than 2 years will almost certainly fail. If your relationship is only in months rather than years, your only chance of success is marriage.
Having re-read your post, you do intend to get married, but your fiancée's failed visa extension can make things difficult, as there will be further scrutiny of your circumstances.


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## ladyliberty (Oct 6, 2010)

Hurley50 said:


> Is that a fact? Could we be refused on these grounds alone even if we had satisfied every other requirement?


What Joppa said does not apply to you. He was responding to the other person's comment that fiances must know eachother for 2 years, which is incorrect. The two year requirement is for UNMARRIED PARTNERS who wish to settle together in the UK (as Joppa said). There is NO REQUIREMENT for the length of time spent together for spouses or fiances as long as you have met in person at least once. If you are already married, (ie why you are applying for a spouse visa), then clearly you have already met, so you dont need to worry about this at all. 


Re: your post about your wife's english ability, AFAIK, she still needs to take the test even if its clear she can speak fluent english.


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

ladyliberty said:


> What Joppa said does not apply to you. He was responding to the other person's comment that fiances must know eachother for 2 years, which is incorrect. The two year requirement is for UNMARRIED PARTNERS who wish to settle together in the UK (as Joppa said). There is NO REQUIREMENT for the length of time spent together for spouses or fiances as long as you have met in person at least once. If you are already married, (ie why you are applying for a spouse visa), then clearly you have already met, so you dont need to worry about this at all.
> 
> 
> Re: your post about your wife's english ability, AFAIK, she still needs to take the test even if its clear she can speak fluent english.


This is very reassuring information. I was very concerned the 2 year period would apply to us. I've searching for info on this and could only find relevance to Fiance Visas. Thank you very much.

And my apologies for "LadyLuck", seems i'm prone to mistakes on this forum! I'll grab a coffee..


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## Hurley50 (Oct 30, 2010)

Joppa said:


> For unmarried partner visa, any cohabitation less than 2 years will almost certainly fail. If your relationship is only in months rather than years, your only chance of success is marriage.
> *Having re-read your post, you do intend to get married, but your fiancée's failed visa extension can make things difficult, as there will be further scrutiny of your circumstances.*


In which way could this make things difficult? Here's an explanation from my Fiance herself with regard to her extension refusal:

My course was supposed to last 8 months (until Feb) and I was supposed to get my visa at least 4 months before that. I got to stay 5 months more than I should because the home office never sent me my docs. What's left for them to say? A quick way to tell me my time's finished there. I couldn't have stayed longer because I wasn't study anymore. My time as student had finished. So the thing is that I'm gonna have to explain them that in my next application so they be aware of why my visa was refused.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hurley50 said:


> My course was supposed to last 8 months (until Feb) and I was supposed to get my visa at least 4 months before that. I got to stay 5 months more than I should because the home office never sent me my docs. What's left for them to say? A quick way to tell me my time's finished there. I couldn't have stayed longer because I wasn't study anymore. My time as student had finished. So the thing is that I'm gonna have to explain them that in my next application so they be aware of why my visa was refused.


I'm not really getting into the details of the case, as I don't have the full facts, but stating the general principle. When the Home Office gets an application from someone whose previous application was denied, they usually take the view that they are trying it on to find any way possible to extend their stay in UK. Their presumptions are that there is something fishy, not quite right about the new relationship and therefore they will scrutinise her new application to find any holes. I'm not suggesting your relationship is suspect, but only stating the view that Home Office is likely to take. They turn down application for settlement, such as marriage, if it's made after someone is given notice for deportation or removal, or if they are here in breach of immigration laws. While your fiancée doesn't fall under these categories, Home Office can suspect marriage of convenience, given the circumstances. So it's even more important that all the evidence you put forward is 100% correct and in accordance with the requirements, and that you don't give the Border Agency any reasonable ground to suspect foul play.


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