# Exercise 'treaty rights' in the UK



## Clauda (Mar 16, 2013)

Hi,

I'm a German citizen who is planning to move to the UK with my Australian husband (we currently live in Germany where he has a temporary residence card and a work permit for Germany).

However, we want to live in the UK (Scotland). I read that for him to get a EEA family permit I have to get a residency card for the UK which I would only get if I 'exercise treaty rights in the UK' such as being employed.
Now the question is, I AM EMPLOYED, but in Germany (I would commute to the UK since I work for an airline it's not a problem) - Am I still exercising treaty rights???
Or do I actually have to work in the UK??? I mean Germany as well as the UK are EEA countries, do I really have to work in the UK? Even though I earn sufficient funds in Germany to support myself and my spouse in Scotland? 

Thank you very much!!!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

If YOU are not working in the UK, then YOU are not exercising treaty rights which would allow you to apply for a permit for your husband to join you in the UK.

In your previous note you said you would visit him on your days off, and that it would be easier for him to find a job in the UK since he does not speak German.

I don't believe you would be 'exercising your rights' in the true sense of the meaning.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


Clauda said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a German citizen who is planning to move to the UK with my Australian husband (we currently live in Germany where he has a temporary residence card and a work permit for Germany).
> 
> ...


To get a Family Permit for your husband isn't a problem. He only has to fill out the proper form, get his biometrics done and submit the supporting documents.

Now, for y'all to settle in the UK, you -the EU-National- need to exercise treaty rights by either being a worker, self-sufficient, self-employed or student. 

Your options: 

1) Ask your employer to put you on their UK payroll.
2) Apply as self-sufficient. For this you must submit evidence to have enough funds to cover your expenses and also you will be required to obtain Comprehensive Sickness Insurance (CSI) for both.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Clauda (Mar 16, 2013)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> To get a Family Permit for your husband isn't a problem. He only has to fill out the proper form, get his biometrics done and submit the supporting documents.
> 
> ...


Hi Animo,

Thank you for your quick reply.

So you're saying it isn't a problem for my husband to get a family permit as long as I can 'exercise my treaty rights', i.e. being employed in Germany would not count (my employer cannot put my on a UK payroll). So I would have to apply for self-sufficient. I looked it up and the definition is as follows: 'meaning that you have sufficient funds to support you without requiring public funds'. Now -is there a certain amount I would need to be earning monthly for this to apply???

How long will it take for me to get my UK residency card and my husband the family permit? And can I apply for all of this from Germany or do I have to be in the UK?

Thank you for your wisdom


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


Clauda said:


> Hi Animo,
> 
> Thank you for your quick reply.
> 
> ...


No, you can only exercise treaty rights in a country other than Germany, where you claim to be a national from. So, your husband can apply right now for a Family Permit, and he only has to indicate that is coming to the UK to be with you. 

Now, for him to settle (This another procedure) without much trouble you will have to "sponsor" him. To do so as self-sufficient, you would need to produce bank statements with enough funds to cover all your expenses for at least 6 months. 

Mind you don't need to get any Residency Certificate, and your husband can only apply and obtain a Family Permit from outside the UK.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Clauda (Mar 16, 2013)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> No, you can only exercise treaty rights in a country other than Germany, where you claim to be a national from. So, your husband can apply right now for a Family Permit, and he only has to indicate that is coming to the UK to be with you.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much Amino.

So we're planning to apply for an EEA Family Permit for him and once we're in the UK we would apply for a 'registration certificate' (EEA1) for me so he can apply for his 'residence card' (EEA2) -since processing time here is up to 6 months could we apply for both at the same time i.e. sending one envelope by post?

Also, with the aspect of being self-sufficient- I wonder if it would count to have a steady income but from a German employer in Germany or could the authorities then say, hold on so you're actually living in Germany but only visiting the UK (since I have to reside in the UK with my husband)...so I'm just wondering whether they could use this against us? I tried calling the UK Border Agency but they were useless and saying it depends on the case officer (they couldn't answer any of my questions) after being on hold for like an hour...thank you Amino!!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

It's my understanding that you would have to be working in the UK and exercising your treaty rights in order for your plan to work. Not only would this be unfair to British nationals and their non-EEA partners, it would defeat the purpose for you to be in the UK but drawing a salary in Germany from a German company (essentially living in Germany). As others have said, you must be working for a UK company and living in the UK if you want your partner to be able to live in Scotland under an EEA family permit.

To be self sufficient, you have to show that you have enough £££ in the bank already to support both of you at the time of application.


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## LC.AusFran (Mar 18, 2013)

*EU Treaty Rights Q*

Hi there,

Lost Aussi hère!

I am an Australian who is PACsed to my French partner. We are both looking for work within the UK, he has a contract offered for 1st June and I have an interview soon as well (commencement date unknown atm) HOWEVER, I hold no visa other than the tourist visa, I was hoping to secure work sponsorship. I was informed that since being PACSed I may exercise the treaty right under my partners EU citizenship providing he secures work within the UK.

Question: 

1) Is this correct and what is the procedure to undertake?

2) If I get work sponsorship...do I need to or can I arrange for a visa as extra protection? If so what kind?

Many thanks ,

LC


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

LC.AusFran said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Lost Aussi hère!
> 
> I am an Australian who is PACsed to my French partner. We are both looking for work within the UK, he has a contract offered for 1st June and I have an interview soon as well (commencement date unknown atm) HOWEVER, I hold no visa other than the tourist visa, I was hoping to secure work sponsorship. I was informed that since being PACSed I may exercise the treaty right under my partners EU citizenship providing he secures work within the UK.


It's your partner as an EU citizen who exercises treaty rights, not you. If he/she exercises treaty rights that gives you the right to apply for an EEA family permit which gives you the ability to live and work in the UK.



> Question:
> 
> 1) Is this correct and what is the procedure to undertake?


He/she exercises treaty rights by living and working in the UK. I'm not sure but looking for work may also qualify. You apply for an EEA family permit based on his actions. I'm not sure if you can apply within the UK or if you will have to return to France.



> 2) If I get work sponsorship...do I need to or can I arrange for a visa as extra protection? If so what kind?


Extra protection from what? If you find an employer who can sponsor you for a Tier 2 work visa, you will need to return to your normal country of residence which looks to be Australia in order to apply. You can't switch from a visit visa to any other visa.

Many thanks ,

LC[/QUOTE]


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> It's my understanding that you would have to be working in the UK and exercising your treaty rights in order for your plan to work. Not only would this be unfair to British nationals and their non-EEA partners, it would defeat the purpose for you to be in the UK but drawing a salary in Germany from a German company (essentially living in Germany). As others have said, you must be working for a UK company and living in the UK if you want your partner to be able to live in Scotland under an EEA family permit.
> 
> To be self sufficient, you have to show that you have enough £££ in the bank already to support both of you at the time of application.


+1 in agreement.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


Clauda said:


> Thank you very much Amino.
> 
> So we're planning to apply for an EEA Family Permit for him and once we're in the UK we would apply for a 'registration certificate' (EEA1) for me so he can apply for his 'residence card' (EEA2) -since processing time here is up to 6 months could we apply for both at the same time i.e. sending one envelope by post?
> 
> Also, with the aspect of being self-sufficient- I wonder if it would count to have a steady income but from a German employer in Germany or could the authorities then say, hold on so you're actually living in Germany but only visiting the UK (since I have to reside in the UK with my husband)...so I'm just wondering whether they could use this against us? I tried calling the UK Border Agency but they were useless and saying it depends on the case officer (they couldn't answer any of my questions) after being on hold for like an hour...thank you Amino!!


Yes, you are actually encourage to send both applications in one envelope. Mind this: as you work for an Airline Carrier you might need your passport, right? If so, you must be aware that these type of applications could take up 6 months to be dealt with. Can you wait that long?

In regards of being self-sufficient, you have to submit bank statements showing to have enough founds to support you and him, not just payslips. 

Moreover, you can't just leave your husband in the UK and come a visit him as needed. You must establish a residence there, otherwise you will be violating the EU regulations and it's meaning. If your husband is found or authorities are notified about this situation, he will be removed from the Country.

For as long as you spend at least 15 days per month (180 days per year) you are actually meeting that requirement.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> It's my understanding that you would have to be working in the UK and *1) exercising your treaty rights *in order for your plan to work. Not only would this be unfair to British nationals and their non-EEA partners, it would defeat the purpose for you to be in the UK but drawing a salary in Germany from a German company (essentially living in Germany). As others have said, you must be *2) working for a UK company *and living in the UK if you want your partner to be able to live in Scotland under an EEA family permit.
> 
> *3)To be self sufficient*, you have to show that you have enough £££ in the bank already to support both of you at the time of application.


1) Treaty Rights can be exercised by being: self-sufficient, self-employed, student or worker.
2) This statement is not quite accurate.
3) Sponsor also needs to obtain Comprehensive Sickness Insurance (CSI) for both.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> 1) Treaty Rights can be exercised by being: self-sufficient, self-employed, student or worker.
> 2) This statement is not quite accurate.
> ...


I believe one of the main rules for EEA permit for dependent in the UK is that the EEU national is living in the UK.

The OP will not be (at least by what one would understand as living in a country). She is working in Germany, her main residence is in Germany, she states she will commute to the UK to stay/visit her husband. So the Australian husband will be living in the UK, while his EEU national wife lives, for the main part, in Germany.

Hence our doubts that this plan is exercising treaty rights.

As pointed out under self sufficiency rule neither will be eligible to use the NHS.


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## LC.AusFran (Mar 18, 2013)

nyclon said:


> It's your partner as an EU citizen who exercises treaty rights, not you. If he/she exercises treaty rights that gives you the right to apply for an EEA family permit which gives you the ability to live and work in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help.

By extra protection I meant that in the unfortunate event that my work may become redundant which can be the nature of Construction Project work I do not want to be faced with deportation thus I thought once obtaining a UK residency permit would I be able to apply in the UK for a Long Stay visa for France?

Secondly, he my partner would be exercising his treaty rights, so granted we would apply for the EEA Family Permit any new knowledge on applying in France or the UK? I assume like any Visa I would need to apply offshore.

Do you know how long the process takes? and the period it last for?

Many thanks in advance, loving this forum - great efforts all!


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


Crawford said:


> I believe one of the main rules for EEA permit for dependent in the UK is that the EEU national is living in the UK.
> 
> The OP will not be (at least by what one would understand as living in a country). She is working in Germany, her main residence is in Germany, she states she will commute to the UK to stay/visit her husband. So the Australian husband will be living in the UK, while his EEU national wife lives, for the main part, in Germany.
> 
> ...


There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

1) EEA Family Permit: this is an entry clearance we -non EU Nationals- get. Whereas the EU National doesn't have to be in the UK to sponsor their dependant nor to have a job in order to do so. This also applies to British Citizens should they decide to bring their spouse/dependant to Spain, France or Italy.

2) Resident Card: in this stage, EU National must prove to be exercising treaty rights in order sponsor their dependant with a "temporary" 5 years leave.

In this particular situation, OP can sponsor her spouse to get the FP, but she would need to establish a residence in the UK to procure a RC for her spouse. In addition to that, OP needs to prove to have enough funds to cover their household expenses and to purchase and carry CSI, should they decide to apply as self-sufficient.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## judith0008 (Jan 8, 2014)

*hi*

I can someone please tell me if I as a EU citizen not in the UK am I exercizing treaty rights? 
thank you


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you are in Northern Cyprus, which is technically in EU (as part of the Republic of Cyprus under illegal military occupation), but as no free movement of people and labour is in operation, then no, you aren't exercising treaty rights by working there.


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## judith0008 (Jan 8, 2014)

Thank you.so the only way l am exercising my treathy rights if l am working in the uk?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you want to bring your non-EEA family member to UK, yes. But you can bring them to another EEA country (other than Romania) if you are working there etc.


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