# Long term leases



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Has anyone here ever taken a long term lease? I am talking about the 25 year with a 25 year renewal option under Presidential Decree 471.

I have a trusted Pilipino friend and what I am thinking of doing is buying a property, in his name with a provision in the sale that that I get a long term lease on the property.

I’m looking for ideas on how to structure the deal. I am thinking that I’d split the title, buildings in my name, land in his. I would place a mortgage on the land and he would ‘rent’ it back to me in lieu of making payments on principle or interest. Mortgage and lease registered on the title and I’d keep the original title in my possession. I’d be responsible for all taxes, maintenance and upkeep and would have the right to make repairs or modifications to the property including demolishing and rebuilding. I’d also assume all risks such as flood or other acts of nature.

I’d also like a provision that should it become allowable under Philippine law for a foreigner to own land here that I would be able to convert the mortgage into a sale of the land and assume full title.

Has anyone any experience with such a setup? Any opinions as to what else I should consider? Is there any pro forma sample contract available on line? (I’ve looked but cannot find one.)

I am here on an SRRV and would also like to convert my deposit into the payment.

I will of course get some legal advice before setting up anything but right now am looking for some background so I can ask the lawyer intelligent questions.

I am also open to a referral to a lawyer experienced in these matters.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba, we have accomplished this and I have mentioned bits of what we did on this forum, I am a bit tied up at the moment but will send you a PM later this arvo with how we went about it and a flaw I picked up after the fact with regards to SRRV and converting bond monies. It will be long winded so won't bore others with details. BTW with what you have mentioned in your post you are on the right track.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

Steve, if you dont mind posting what you did with your long term lease here, I for one would be greatly interested in reading it no matter how long it is. I'd also like to learn about the flaws you encountered.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

HondaGuy said:


> Steve, if you dont mind posting what you did with your long term lease here, I for one would be greatly interested in reading it no matter how long it is. I'd also like to learn about the flaws you encountered.


Hi HondaGuy, If you search within the forum "effective land ownership Philippines" there is some good info there, plenty of pros and cons thrown up to think about.

Here is an extract from what I sent to Manitoba and I hope he doesn't mind me sharing.

We searched for several years before we found what we wanted, talked to the agent about how we wanted to purchase and lease, quite common according to him.
The purchase price after negotiations was PHP 5.75M then with the agent and an attorney this is what we did.
5M was the land cost and the title is in Ben's name, .75M was for the house and all improvements on the lot, this is reflected on the title with me as the owner. The title is encumbered by the 25 + 25 year lease again with me as the lessee so difficult to sell or get a mortgage against.
The lease,,,,,,, It is stated in the lease that the lease on the property for the 50 years is paid for in full up front with the purchase price of the land in Ben's name, the usual free run of the house and lot with sole discretion with
renovations/improvements, paying taxes, Barangay fees etc by me. The freedom to sell the lease or rent or sublet, bequeath the lease and improvements to whom I desire and the list goes on. I presented a very long list of inclusions to the attorney and she even added things I missed, it is really up to you how you administer the drawing up of the lease to suit your requirements after all it's your dollars. Both Ben and I are very comfortable with the arrangement and hope there are no problems in our relationship in the future........ Protect your ars*.

My downfall with all this is that I assumed because I had the lease I could get my bond back from the PRA, not so, while the title is encumbered and we I have the lease the wording on both documents is wrong, so a heads up if you go this way here is a link to the correct wording on the documents.

https://tinyurl.com/ycocbqty

Unfortunately it's too late for me to go the SRRV route at this stage but I'll see if I can have the title and lease changed to reflect their conditions,,,,,,,,, more money and 12 months or more to turn that problem around once we are living there.
I also talked to my shipping forwarder in Manila about this problem, He said that if I come in on a tourist visa they would slug me PHP 200 to 250K in taxes, but he suggested that If Ben as a returning Filipino (not OFW) that has lived and worked in Oz for over 5 years which he has and by the time we move will also hold an Aussie passport then the taxes will probably be 100K so we will probably go that way and worry about the PRA later.

I hope this helps and if you want to pick my ailing brain further please do or if you can throw light onto both our situations I would appreciate that also.

So HondaGuy one of my downfalls was with the SRRV as stated above. 
A realestate agent that looked very polished but misguided us on several issues such as their valuation on the land for CGT that the owner would pay and out tax contribution, ended up more than double his advice.
The previous owner is a westerner (property in his ex wife name) he had an SPA which we read and appears to be above board, guided by our attorney. The title office rejected it as it did not contain the title number of the land in question. A new Special power of attorney had to be drawn up and resubmitted, this has been going on for 15 months. just waiting for titles office to put the rubber stamp on it now.
Bureaucracy is a huge hurdle in PH as we all know so one just has to be patient and play the game.

Ask your questions and I'm sure you will get plenty of answers here.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I have to add here that this is what we did and whether right, wrong or indifferent was the path we took and sincerely hope that it doesn't come back and bite me one day. Only time will tell.
All have individual and unique situations and have to learn the different avenues then make a decision on what is suitable and will work to achieve the goal.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Steve

No problems with what you posted about our discussion. I was going to message you suggesting we post most of it.


A couple things I'd like to add. You need a trusted local to make this work. Most people will pick your partner or SO but there are issues with that. Lots of the guys here are divorced back home and should learn from that. I am lucky, I worked in Afghanistan many years and was with one Filipino OFW for 7 years. We worked and lived in very close proximity and shared a bunker on numerous occasions. Any vets here will agree, something about shared danger over a long period of time in an intense situation builds strong bonds of trust and loyalty.

I would have the property in his name even if I had a SO. I'd then will the balance of the lease to her so she had a place to live after I'm gone and my kids back home would not have to worry about disposing of the lease. 

Register the lease on the title and get the original copy of the title for yourself. That will make it difficult for a mortgage or sale to leave you out in the cold.

Be careful of the anti-dummy laws. It could void your lease leaving you very badly off. 

Finally I'd like to point out that a 10,000,000 p investment for 50 years at 4% is just over 38,000 a month. If you can get a secure shorter term lease on a property, then that would give you the lifestyle you may be looking for without the huge commitment. At my age (62) I might look into taking a 5 year or 10 year lease instead. I'd not get back the SRRV deposit against the lease but I would also have a much lower cash outlay and less long term risk exposure. A 10 year lease at 4% and same payment for a 10,000,000 property 50 year lease would be just under 4,000,000. (5 years just over 2 million)

That would cover the time I would need a place with much lower cost outlay.

Everyone has a different situation. here are lots of options out there that can satisfy everyone's needs, wants and resources. There are a lot of unknowns. What will be our health? What will be our situation with a partner/SO? What will happen with the exchange rate, the economy, our investments back home, our family situation back home? What will be the political and security situation here? 

All we can do is take a good look around and do our due diligence and cross our fingers and pick what we think is the best option for us.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Steve, I guess one wrinkle in your situation could be if/when the Philippines would allow same sex marriage.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Steve, I guess one wrinkle in your situation could be if/when the Philippines would allow same sex marriage.


I'd expect that about the same time they make divorce easy, make paying child support mandatory and enforce that, and allow foreigners to buy property.


'In other words don't hold your breath waiting for that. lol


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> Steve, I guess one wrinkle in your situation could be if/when the Philippines would allow same sex marriage.


Hey Gary, Yep thought of all that and what constantly comes to mind is "pigs might fly" and as Manitoba said there are too many other things to fix before worrying about same sex marriage. Even if it did come to pass we have a prior arrangement, a pre existing condition like my old timers disease.
A marriage certificate is really just a piece of paper but look at the troubles one has in PH if you want a divorce/annulment. I was married for 22 years, never again as there is no need.
So the only wrinkles I see are mine as I get older.
Good point though Gary.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

Steve,

Thank you for taking the time to post this and for sharing your experience; I for one have learned a lot from it!


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

HondaGuy said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to post this and for sharing your experience; I for one have learned a lot from it!


All good and Manitoba offers some interesting insights and scenarios. Good luck if you choose to go down a similar path.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Following this thread causes me to wonder if a lease of any kind is really needed at all? For living on Subic SBMA it is required for a home and for most condo rentals it's probably a good idea. But for regular home rentals (especially out of the cities) is it really necessary? 

We own our own home but are living in a rental home and have done so now for over four years. We started with a lease and then said the heck with it. All as been and continues to be just fine. Again I understand this may be needed in the cities and also give us a sense of security as it would have in our home countries.


----------



## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

Asian Spirit said:


> We started with a lease and then said the heck with it.


You're probably fine until the owner has some family members who become homeless for whatever reason and then decides they want to put them up in the house you're renting.
On the other hand, you're paying them rent and they probably dont want to lose that income you're giving them, so in the end, like just about everything else in the Philippines, it's a crap shoot.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

It'll work fine until you have a better house than the owner.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Asian Spirit said:


> Following this thread causes me to wonder if a lease of any kind is really needed at all? For living on Subic SBMA it is required for a home and for most condo rentals it's probably a good idea. But for regular home rentals (especially out of the cities) is it really necessary?
> 
> We own our own home but are living in a rental home and have done so now for over four years. We started with a lease and then said the heck with it. All as been and continues to be just fine. Again I understand this may be needed in the cities and also give us a sense of security as it would have in our home countries.


Morning Gene, if this works for you and you are comfortable with the situation then why bother with any sort of lease. For me I would like a lease as we did renting the condo in Manila, and if we were to rent short term in the province, again I would insist on a lease, this gives security to the tenant as well as the landlord,,,,,,, in theory (after all we are talking about the Philippines and nothing appears to be set in concrete).

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> Steve
> 
> No problems with what you posted about our discussion. I was going to message you suggesting we post most of it.
> 
> ...


There are many scenarios and one needs to pick what is right for them.
For us it was very simple, we wanted to be half an hour to an hours drive from the family, the property had to be absolute beachfront on a decent size lot (1 to 2000 M2). It had to be away from the highway but not too far, closish to a good wet market and shopping, hospital, a quiet neighbourhood, a decent house, water supply etc.
In our 3 years of looking we never found any beachfront houses to rent and as said took 3 years to find this property.

Just say we did find a rental that suited our needs I could suggest the rent would be PHP 40K upward over say 25 years (doubt if I'll be around beyond that) equals PHP 12M, possibly more as rents rise no different to earning money in investments. If we invested that money safely say in OZ at 5% = PHP 600K so in theory rent covered, for me not so, one has to consider taxation but the deal clincher is putting some of your returns back into your principal to keep abreast with CPI increases. Currently in OZ 2% = PHP 240K now we have a shortfall. Yes you still have your principal (mostly) but you just paid for the house again and the owner says thank you very much.

Investing the money in a property with a secure long term lease has it's ups and downs because you have locked that money away for 50 years, actually gone unless you can renew the lease. By the way over 50 years it drops the rent to 20K per month.
Maintenance, property taxes and rates and you are stuck there/committed if for some reason you want to get out. The upside for me is that I know that my better half will have a nice property that can be lived in or sold after my departure, security for him, we can always sell the lease to another and move on, the property stays in the family but useless for the duration of the lease, sell the property and buy/move elsewhere if we choose.
The property will hopefully appreciate in value at least with CPI increases if not more, we have the freedom to do what we want on the property instead of asking a landlord, we have a good size lot of 1,700M2 so great for gardening and pottering around, should keep me off the streets for years to come, I wouldn't have the inclination if I rented short term.

I am going down this road with eyes wide open and believe I have covered my backside.
This works for us both financially and as a chosen destination to retire, travel and enjoy life but may not suit others.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

bigpearl said:


> Morning Gene, if this works for you and you are comfortable with the situation then why bother with any sort of lease. For me I would like a lease as we did renting the condo in Manila, and if we were to rent short term in the province, again I would insist on a lease, this gives security to the tenant as well as the landlord,,,,,,, in theory (after all we are talking about the Philippines and nothing appears to be set in concrete).
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Good Morning Also Steve,

You got that right on nothing in concrete. We've seen others in the area with a lease of ten years simply booted out with not much in the way or resource at all. Like anything else here the lease (or law) means very little. But like I said, so far so good. Makes it kind of an adventure living here even if the adventure is unwanted.
By the way, did you ever locate anyone to move a container from Manila to your location? Seems like the shipping company would handle it for a fee or know of a reliable company to do it.

Gene


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Asian Spirit said:


> Good Morning Also Steve,
> 
> You got that right on nothing in concrete. We've seen others in the area with a lease of ten years simply booted out with not much in the way or resource at all. Like anything else here the lease (or law) means very little. But like I said, so far so good. Makes it kind of an adventure living here even if the adventure is unwanted.
> By the way, did you ever locate anyone to move a container from Manila to your location? Seems like the shipping company would handle it for a fee or know of a reliable company to do it.
> ...


Ah the adventure,,,,, we love it, lol.
No joy with cranes to date but we have time, funny as we have family there that we help but they cannot locate a crane company and their contact details for us and we asked them over a month ago and finally yesterday we get "yes there is one here but it's going to cost over 100K" but no contact details nor the type and size of crane. We didn't ask for a costing simply contact details,,,,,,,,, things as always get lost in translation, I tell Ben, he tells his Mum or Dad, they ask the relatives who ask friends and it goes on. A simple phone number will do fine, thanks.
Mogo51 said he will go down to the port at some stage in SFC and see what he can hunt up. We have time still so not panicking yet.
The forwarders in Manila have no contacts up our way and are not keen to send a truck up there without the security of a crane booking, slowly slowly Gene.

Sorry to go off topic.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> ....
> The forwarders in Manila have no contacts up our way and are not keen to send a truck up there without the security of a crane booking, slowly slowly Gene.
> 
> Sorry to go off topic.
> ...


Can you get a mover with a self unloader? I have seen some with 20 containers driving around Manila. The truck can only put the container on the ground beside the trailer but can off load without any additional equipment needed.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> Can you get a mover with a self unloader? I have seen some with 20 containers driving around Manila. The truck can only put the container on the ground beside the trailer but can off load without any additional equipment needed.


New topic Manitoba, will post in a minute.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> T
> 
> Maintenance, property taxes and rates and you are stuck there/committed if for some reason you want to get out.
> Strange, here in SBFZ we don't have to pay property tax when we own a lease. Maybe because the lease is with the government? Never thought about it before.
> ...


It looks like you have done your homework and it should be a great choice! I love our lease here in SBFZ and the market values of the leases are going up a lot. I have a big lot and we plan to expand in the future.

True that you never know what could happen in a crazy country like the Philippines. I remember 30+ years ago when Mexico decided to revoke the long term leases of a lot of Americans who had retired in Baja California. They lost everything.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpearl View Post
T

Maintenance, property taxes and rates and you are stuck there/committed if for some reason you want to get out.
Strange, here in SBFZ we don't have to pay property tax when we own a lease. Maybe because the lease is with the government? Never thought about it before.

We had that written into the lease to Protect Bengie if we part company, the taxes are low and either way at the moment we pay the taxes. Perhaps with your lease the taxes are loaded into the rent? Not sure but your lease should give you an idea, who knows what the government has done.

we can always sell the lease to another and move on, the property stays in the family but useless for the duration of the lease, sell the property and buy/move elsewhere if we choose.
Is this type of lease automatically transferable or do you have to make sure that is written into the contract?

I'm not sure Don but to cover all bases we had it written into the lease, can be bequeathed to a nominated person, can be transferred/sold. 

The property will hopefully appreciate in value at least with CPI increases if not more,
One thing to keep in mind is that your lease also has a time value and as the years run by, that will decrease the value. Our 50 year lease will be down to 25 years left in a year or so, and I will take up the option to re-up it to 50 years. In the case of SBFZ, it is very cost effective to do so. 

Yes I agree and see your point 100% but in our scenario Bengie will eventually be the owner or as said if we are not happy there or things change then the property can be sold and we move on, the lease torn up I suppose. The property should increase in value over the years so no loss there.

It looks like you have done your homework and it should be a great choice! I love our lease here in SBFZ and the market values of the leases are going up a lot. I have a big lot and we plan to expand in the future.

Sounds good and I have heard great things about your area but for us we chose to be closer to family and purchase a property for future security. 

True that you never know what could happen in a crazy country like the Philippines. I remember 30+ years ago when Mexico decided to revoke the long term leases of a lot of Americans who had retired in Baja California. They lost everything.

Was that with government leases or private leases? Definitely a sad situation for those caught out in that.

Thanks for your input Don.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by bigpearl View Post
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I didn't mean to insinuate to others that a SBFZ lease is comparable to yours. That would not be apples to apples. Just sharing info if anyone can use it.

On our SBFZ 50 year lease it shows all the previous lessees and who they transferred it to, with us being the last. When you transfer, there is a 5% tax that goes to SBFZ, based on the selling price. Reminds me that I need to give them a copy of my will showing my wife as beneficiary. The lease is in my name only but if I die my wife will not have to pay the transfer fee, provided they have my will.


----------



## esv1226 (Mar 13, 2014)

DonAndAbby said:


> On our SBFZ 50 year lease it shows all the previous lessees and who they transferred it to, with us being the last. When you transfer, there is a 5% tax that goes to SBFZ, based on the selling price. Reminds me that I need to give them a copy of my will showing my wife as beneficiary. The lease is in my name only but if I die my wife will not have to pay the transfer fee, provided they have my will.


Ours is a little different. It is a long term renewable sublease from Subic Homes. When this was drawn up, the lawyer suggested we nominate other names as co-owners (beneficiaries as co-owners). Incase of our death, there is no need to transfer ownership to the beneficiaries. According to him, taxes were just too high.


----------



## 2054403 (Jan 14, 2017)

Attorney told me something. Trust and Filipino might not go together over time. Look at the message on most Philippine Schools encouraging to tell the truth. As been a LONG term problem in Philippines and other parts of the world.
Attorney advised me to: Buy the land for wife/girlfriend in their name BUT record a mortgage on BACK or original DEED as mortgage lender. Remember, and I think I am correct, there is only ONE title floating around for a property. To get another DEED almost takes a act of the courts.
Then take a lease on the property. Land owner dies and relatives get the land and you know how that goes.
A Foreigner putting house on land HE does not own is like putting your hand in a alligator's mouth and hoping the gator is not hungry.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

You can also use a local who is not your girlfriend or significant other. That would take the emotion out of the equation. I have a friend from Afghan days that I trust, only issue is will I trust his son or wife who would inherit the property after he dies? He is younger than me so that may not be a problem, but still something to consider.


I'd still do all the things that 2054403 mentions plus get the actual deed. I'd put it in a safe place either a bank safety deposit or store it out of the country where the locals cannot get their hands on it. 

It is my understanding that there is only one deed issued on a property however there can also be counterfeit copies around. (You sometimes see signs on a property saying it is not for sale, beware counterfeit deeds, so I assume that that is not unheard of here.)


----------



## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

Manitoba said:


> It is my understanding that there is only one deed issued on a property however there can also be counterfeit copies around. (You sometimes see signs on a property saying it is not for sale, beware counterfeit deeds, so I assume that that is not unheard of here.)


They can definitely make a counterfeit. Happened to us. The counterfeiter took out a loan from a bank with the house/lot as collateral. Long story is we had to pay the loan amount to get the property back or walk away from it. 

Because of this and all the other things I have witnessed here I no longer care what happens to the properties and vehicles and anything else I own. I am sure when I die it will all be pawned immediately for pennies on the dollar and I am ok with that. Whatever makes them happy in the short run as they never care about the future.:confused2:


----------



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Zep said:


> They can definitely make a counterfeit. Happened to us. The counterfeiter took out a loan from a bank with the house/lot as collateral. Long story is we had to pay the loan amount to get the property back or walk away from it.
> 
> Because of this and all the other things I have witnessed here I no longer care what happens to the properties and vehicles and anything else I own. I am sure when I die it will all be pawned immediately for pennies on the dollar and I am ok with that. Whatever makes them happy in the short run as they never care about the future.:confused2:


As most of you all know, I have been living here (married) for the past 15+ years. I have two of the greatest brother in laws around and rest of the family as well. I would trust them with the temporary use of personal possessions such as a vehicle or appliance. Would I trust any of them with a land title or something of great value? *Not a snowball's chance in He**.*. I have many locals for friends but in my opinion it's foolish and risky to the extreme to be trusting and reasonable with locals.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Zep said:


> They can definitely make a counterfeit. Happened to us. The counterfeiter took out a loan from a bank with the house/lot as collateral. Long story is we had to pay the loan amount to get the property back or walk away from it.
> 
> ....


The bank was the one scammed, how could then make you pay for it? The bank should have done due diligence and checked out the title. I would think that you should be able to verify a title somehow and the bank failed to do that.

Perhaps someone at the bank was in on the scam????


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> The bank was the one scammed, how could then make you pay for it? The bank should have done due diligence and checked out the title. I would think that you should be able to verify a title somehow and the bank failed to do that.
> 
> Perhaps someone at the bank was in on the scam????


In the Philippines it's always someone else's fault, it's a game of pass the parcel, whoever is left holding the parcel catches the cr*p. It's the only place I know where if a tradesman cocks up you have to pay him to fix it.


----------



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Gary D said:


> In the Philippines it's always someone else's fault, it's a game of pass the parcel, whoever is left holding the parcel catches the cr*p. It's the only place I know where if a tradesman cocks up you have to pay him to fix it.


Tell ya what bro,,,, you said a mouthful there and is the absolute truth in all aspects of life here..


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> In the Philippines it's always someone else's fault, it's a game of pass the parcel, whoever is left holding the parcel catches the cr*p. It's the only place I know where if a tradesman cocks up you have to pay him to fix it.


Something I am very aware of as a tradesman and logistics manager in Oz myself, so yes see the scams coming left right and centre even in Australia not just PH. We have just had the new ensuite and laundry tiles installed by a "supposedly" tiler.
The Quote was 35 bucks per M2 but the tiler insisted that it would be cheaper By the hour, at $ 35.00 per hour, I said to him that I am happy to pay the M2 rate as long as you do a good job. So 50M2 of tiles = $1,750.00. We just got rid of the dude after many removals/relaying (fixing mistakes) until we were happy with the job,,,,,,,, I am now cleaning up his high quality work and if I had the time should have done it myself,,,,,,,,,,,,, will have the time in PH. and will do and supervise our renovations and the extension.
Back to my tiler, he spent 12 or more days here and got the princely sum of $ 1,750.00, some $145.00 per day,,,,,,,,, not very efficient. If I paid him by the hour the total tile job would have been $ 3,360.00. 
Written quotes/contracts when we do our extension and renovations to our house in PH.

Gary, I do hope that all my contractors in PH. carry the parcel correctly, written quotes/contract, payments made when we are happy with the works performed and not before but hey, as you say this is the Philippines, I can see my time coming but hope to circumnavigate the foibles well before they bite us.

I am sure you will hear my bitches if and when they arise. 

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

The problem we have had at least a couple of times, fixed price and after taking to long expect further money to complete the job. If not forthcoming would just walk away without completion. Nothing you can do about it. Complaining would just get you shot.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> The problem we have had at least a couple of times, fixed price and after taking to long expect further money to complete the job. If not forthcoming would just walk away without completion. Nothing you can do about it. Complaining would just get you shot.


I will definitely take your words on board Gary, is there an answer to this problem? Not so much the gun but getting the job done properly for the/an agreed price.
We seem to have gone off topic but as long as the bosses upstairs don't mind this is good feedback.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> My downfall with all this is that I assumed because I had the lease I could get my bond back from the PRA, not so, while the title is encumbered and we I have the lease the wording on both documents is wrong, so a heads up if you go this way here is a link to the correct wording on the documents.
> 
> tinyurl.___/ycocbqty


The link is down (I had to edit it because I'm a new poster)

It would be great if you could post the info here.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> The link is down (I had to edit it because I'm a new poster)
> 
> It would be great if you could post the info here.


Welcome to the forum Gorn. Yes it appears that info has been removed from her website, I/you also can research this online and probably find the answer on the PRA site with a little delving.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> Welcome to the forum Gorn. Yes it appears that info has been removed from her website, I/you also can research this online and probably find the answer on the PRA site with a little delving.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.



Thanks Steve. 

I checked that before signing up here, all it says is you can use the deposit to pay a long term lease, nothing on the specific wording required for the lease to be valid. Hopefully the OP is still around


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> that info has been removed from her website


Actually i thought that was your info since you posted it. Would you remember what the advice was, to get the lease done properly in order for SRRV to accept?


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> Actually i thought that was your info since you posted it. Would you remember what the advice was, to get the lease done properly in order for SRRV to accept?


Yes Gorn it was me that said that and if you take the time to read back on my and others posts you will gain more info to help you with your situation, perhaps 2 or 3 years worth with relation to SRRV by me and 15 to 20 years by others.
In a nut shell from my research: Firstly if you wish to convert your deposits into a Condo, lease etc you need to deposit US 50K not 20 or 10.
From my understanding with securing your deposit back with the PRA to invest in allowable investment property that property will be encumbered with the PRA's name on the lease and title for obvious reasons. Simply if you decide to sell then you need to return your deposit back to the PRA or deregister from the SRRV service.

As said in my previous post you can find this info out for yourself or in the mean time when I get time will try to secure the correct wording and requirements.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

BTW Gorn if you are serious about the SRRV process then I would advise you to contact them and get the correct info straight from the horses mouth, current and detailed instead of an expat site as I and others have done some time ago.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> f you wish to convert your deposits into a Condo, lease etc you need to deposit US 50K not 20 or 10.


The deposit amount depends on your age, it's $50k if under 50 years old, $20k if over 50, and $10k if over 50 with pension.



bigpearl said:


> From my understanding with securing your deposit back with the PRA to invest in allowable investment property that property will be encumbered with the PRA's name on the lease and title for obvious reasons.


So if you buy a condo for $150k and use only 10k of your PRA to invest, their name is on the title as an equal owner?

I don't understand putting their name on lease either, the deposit will be gone long before the 25+25 year lease expires.



bigpearl said:


> when I get time will try to secure the correct wording and requirements.


Appreciate it, I searched and can't find any detailed info on that.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Well Gorn a 30 second google revealed all and sorry to be blunt but as my rear old dad used to say "God helps those that help themselves.
Your deposit is a bond/security no different to a mortgage where the lenders name is on the title and (encumbered) that lender is the first cab off the rank to get their monies back if the property is sold. 
As I said earlier if you sell the property your bond has to be returned to the PRA or somehow rolled into another condo/lease investment if you wish to avail the SRRV program. Good luck and hope this link sorts out your doubts.

https://pra.gov.ph/assets/citizen-charter/Conversion_of_Visa_Deposit_to_Active_Investment.pdf

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

This may help also Gorn.

https://pra.gov.ph/downloads/

For Me as stated in other posts here and other expat sites find the PRA's requirements with regards to purchasing and or leasing to restrictive and as we have already purchased, (some 2 and a half years ago) land in partners name, buildings and improvements my name and a 25+25 year lease over the land which took nearly 18 months to accomplish, we would have to go through the motions yet again to change the titles and lease to reflect the PRA's requirements, at what cost and the frustrations of a very tardy system to say the least.
For me/us I will simply wait some years until I decide to draw a pension from my superannuation then go down the US 10K path, lock that money away and avail the attributes that are offered with the SRRV, in the mean time will do the regular immi visit every 59 days (10 to 15 minutes in SFC La Union,,,, bonus) and intend to ask next time if I can negate the ridiculous express lane fees by coming in earlier to extend my visa.
Good luck with all your research and decisions.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> This may help also Gorn. https://pra.gov.ph/downloads/


It does, thanks.



bigpearl said:


> For Me as stated in other posts here and other expat sites find the PRA's requirements with regards to purchasing and or leasing to restrictive and as we have already purchased, (some 2 and a half years ago) land in partners name, buildings and improvements my name and a 25+25 year lease over the land which took nearly 18 months to accomplish, we would have to go through the motions yet again to change the titles and lease to reflect the PRA's requirements, at what cost and the frustrations of a very tardy system to say the least


The takeaway here is don't set up a lease before applying for the SRRV., because apparently it's so difficult to change the lease that it's not even worth the potential $10,000 deposit you'd be able to 'recover'.



bigpearl said:


> Your deposit is a bond/security no different to a mortgage where the lenders name is on the title and (encumbered) that lender is the first cab off the rank to get their monies back if the property is sold. As I said earlier if you sell the property your bond has to be returned to the PRA


Right, but how does that apply to a lease, where you aren't buying anything, you don't own anything, you're paying for a service and those funds can't be recovered by the PRA.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> It does, thanks.
> 
> 
> The takeaway here is don't set up a lease before applying for the SRRV., because apparently it's so difficult to change the lease that it's not even worth the potential $10,000 deposit you'd be able to 'recover'.
> ...


Excuse me Gorn but I supplied you the information that you "couldn't" find because you were too slack to look, you queried one of my prior posts (doubt) and now you call into question the PRA's requirements that I supplied to you for free because you obviously didn't believe an earlier post from me? Yet again? Sorry Gorn but I didn't write these laws/requirements and as said by another member you are looking for loopholes over 10K measly bucks. It is what it is, accept and move on. I asked in another post for you to supply more info, perhaps do the members here the favour of introducing yourself properly and what you are looking for so we can help and potentially point you in the right direction instead of half baked questions.

Gorn there is a wealth of info here on this site if you care to search or if unsure post a new thread relevant to your needs and I am sure if not me there are plenty of long timers that will point you in the right direction.

Sorry to be to the point but at times needed.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> introducing yourself properly and what you are looking for


I'm a foreigner in the Philippines interested in purchasing a house and lot for my partner, getting an SRRV for myself, and using the SRRV deposit to pay the lease. While researching this, I found your post where you tried to do the same, but you used the incorrect wording on your lease, and you linked to the correct wording, but that link was down. Apparently the correct wording involves including the PRA to the lease.

Since this is all new territory for me, I have a general question of what benefit the PRA gets from being added to your lease, that's something I'd like to understand.

But the specific question that remains unanswered is if I fund a house and lot purchase now, and get an SRRV later, would there be any issue with setting up a lease at that time?


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> I'm a foreigner in the Philippines interested in purchasing a house and lot for my partner, getting an SRRV for myself, and using the SRRV deposit to pay the lease. While researching this, I found your post where you tried to do the same, but you used the incorrect wording on your lease, and you linked to the correct wording, but that link was down. Apparently the correct wording involves including the PRA to the lease.
> 
> Since this is all new territory for me, I have a general question of what benefit the PRA gets from being added to your lease, that's something I'd like to understand.
> 
> But the specific question that remains unanswered is if I fund a house and lot purchase now, and get an SRRV later, would there be any issue with setting up a lease at that time?


Gorn I have created a new post specifically related to your questions and we should stay on target, we all want to help each other and asking the correct questions within the right thread helps, please go to/come on board and I'm sure we can all offer our 2 bobs worths as you will do.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> I'm a foreigner in the Philippines interested in purchasing a house and lot for my partner, getting an SRRV for myself, and using the SRRV deposit to pay the lease. While researching this, I found your post where you tried to do the same, but you used the incorrect wording on your lease, and you linked to the correct wording, but that link was down. Apparently the correct wording involves including the PRA to the lease.
> 
> Since this is all new territory for me, I have a general question of what benefit the PRA gets from being added to your lease, that's something I'd like to understand.
> 
> But the specific question that remains unanswered is if I fund a house and lot purchase now, and get an SRRV later, would there be any issue with setting up a lease at that time?


My bad Gorn, I didn't read your post in it's whole/entirety. My situation may/or may not be different to yours but we are a gay couple and though recognised in many countries, not so in PH. hence the lease from an apparent at length Filipino, Pinoy. If you are opposite sex couple the legalities are extremely different to a non recognised relationship.

Our loophole in PH. is the fact that our relationship is not recognised and by law, is illegal, and off topic like securing a Filipino drivers licence unless you hold an SRRV or 13a visa and secure Permanent residency.

Question #1
Since this is all new territory for me, I have a general question of what benefit the PRA gets from being added to your lease, that's something I'd like to understand.

Well Gorn I think we have been over this ground previously but simply if you want the perc's that go with an SRR visa then play the game, their rules.

#2 But the specific question that remains unanswered is if I fund a house and lot purchase now, and get an SRRV later, would there be any issue with setting up a lease at that time?

Your "specific" question beggars to differ, all relative to personal situation/s read the law and no I'm not going to find it for you, get off your derriere and then some. 
If you are a heterosexual couple forget leases or contrives excuses, others will back me up on this.

Let's take this up on a thread devoted to your needs and wishful wants.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

Back to this thread again?



bigpearl said:


> I think we have been over this ground previously


We haven't, I'm just curious what benefit the PRA gets from being added to your lease, it's a completely different situation from being added to a condo purchase.



bigpearl said:


> read the law


I did, it's not in there, and I'm not sure why you keep replying to questions you don't have answers to lol.

And my questions are for the forum, any who has info can reply.

Though unless anyone has actually tried this, I don't think anyone would know. Possibly only an attorney could answer if one can fund a house and lot purchase, then get an SRRV later, and then set up a lease.


----------



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> Back to this thread again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While you may have looked Gorn and overlooked words of wisdom as it appears with all the info supplied by those trying to help you and make your path easier that, and while stating that I personally have not been through this scenario have certainly done the research and consulted 2 attorneys in PH; became a no brainer, you sir have only come up with diatribe, suppositions by a dude that appears to have never visited the PH. nor will if he can't get the paltry sum of 10K back, woe is you for criticism to those you asked help from and simply disregarded, criticised then overridden by unfounded rhetoric and diatribe, woe again to you. I certainly did you the decency of creating a new thread and offered you the opportunity to introduce yourself and your particular situation with so far nada.
Only rebelión because it is not what you want to hear nor capable of hearing truths, no matter how hard you fight mate the answers have been given and no attorney nor legal council will change the info supplied by myself that you, an obviously inept human being could not find for himself, sorry for the attack but as said "God helps those that help themselves" and hen some, something that appears you are not capable,,,,,, lets not go there.
You think sport in My 8 plus years in this country and expat sites/experience plenty of expats with 30, 40 plus years here I am talking cr#p? They would have been all over me like shingles. It appears I am slapping you as required. Please come back to earth and advise as asked before what you really want/need. Again tell us more about yourself instead of a one liner.

Cheers, Steve.


----------



## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> the paltry sum of 10K back


Again? lol you keep saying that, but that's exactly what you wanted to do:



bigpearl said:


> I assumed because I had the lease I could get my bond back from the PRA


----------

