# Has Spain stopped foreigners from UK 'signing on'?



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Just seen/heard that the Spanish government has suspended, until further notice, all applications for residencia from UK citizens.


Now that's interesting because we took friends to our local extranjeria last Friday. They waited from 6am for a ticket only to be told that they weren't issuing them until 8th August. We went back later and asked why but were told that we should come back on 1st (not 8th)).

I wonder if they have stopped and that's what we'll be told next time?




Anyone know the truth?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just seen/heard that the Spanish government has suspended, until further notice, all applications for residencia from UK citizens.
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting because we took friends to our local extranjeria last Friday. They waited from 6am for a ticket only to be told that they weren't issuing them until 8th August. We went back later and asked why but were told that we should come back on 1st (not 8th)).
> ...


where did you see it?

If were true, then Spain would be in breach of EU regulations


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

At a meeting last Tuesday the deputy British Ambassador to Spain said this 



> ...... the rights of both British and Spanish citizens to live, work and study in each other’s countries had not changed, and the UK would remain a full member of the EU until exit negotiations were completed.


Also that the British Consulate would investigate any discriminatory actions against British citizens

https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/british-deputy-ambassador-and-consul-listen-to-eu-referendum-concerns

I suspect that it's more likely to be an over-eager funcionario or two, rather than an official ruling


at least I hope so


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I have seen the odd report of such things in facebook groups but then again it is hard to tell if that is the everyday confusion that comes with dealing with funcionarios or something else.
Still it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It's nearly August, workers are on holiday, everything slows down. Once upon a time offices were closed for a fortnight or more. Being told to come back after a week doesn't necessarily involve a conspiracy theory about Spain closing its doors to Brits.


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## ExpatWannabee (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, this is a great way to get a false rumour started and scare all kinds of people. All that has happened is that a referendum has taken place. Article 50 hasn't been invoked, no negotiations have taken place, and no governments have done anything unilaterally. Brexit is going to take years (decades?) to unfold so no one should be pressing any panick buttons. What Snikpoh has described sounds to me like the typical Valencia government confusion/inefficiency.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

This rumour is circulating around facebook. (that well known fact-filled media outlet) along with OAP and others being refused health care.

Scaremongering I suspect


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

ExpatWannabee said:


> Well, this is a great way to get a false rumour started and scare all kinds of people. All that has happened is that a referendum has taken place. Article 50 hasn't been invoked, no negotiations have taken place, and no governments have done anything unilaterally. Brexit is going to take years (decades?) to unfold so no one should be pressing any panick buttons. What Snikpoh has described sounds to me like the typical Valencia government confusion/inefficiency.


The original report was from someone in Seville - so certainly nothing to do with Valencia. So now we have two areas of Spain doing much the same thing.

I know they are obliged to issue a 'residencia' on the spot but what does one do if they won't?

It could well be scaremongering which is why I asked if anyone knew the 'truth'!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> It's nearly August, workers are on holiday, everything slows down. Once upon a time offices were closed for a fortnight or more. Being told to come back after a week doesn't necessarily involve a conspiracy theory about Spain closing its doors to Brits.


I'm thinking that wait for an appt could be a combination of that & the distinct possibility that there's been a rush to register....


It doesn't explain what was said by a funcionario in Sevilla though - could just be over eager & not understanding that we're still EU citizens


Either way. I'd treat it as a rumour unless or until the Spanish govt says it - & if it does, then the British govt & the EU will soon put a stop to it, I'm sure :fingerscrossed:


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> It's nearly August, workers are on holiday, everything slows down. Once upon a time offices were closed for a fortnight or more. Being told to come back after a week doesn't necessarily involve a conspiracy theory about Spain closing its doors to Brits.


I agree with you - it's no doubt a combination of workers on holiday and the fact that offices in many companies and businesses
in Spain introduce a shorter working week in July and August.

For example many Dentist practices have reduced opening hours in August.
Maybe the same is true with certain Government offices ?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just seen/heard that the Spanish government has suspended, until further notice, all applications for residencia from UK citizens.
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting because we took friends to our local extranjeria last Friday. They waited from 6am for a ticket only to be told that they weren't issuing them until 8th August. We went back later and asked why but were told that we should come back on 1st (not 8th)).
> ...


Nothing has changed on the Ministerio del Interior page.
Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración
It's a rumour, and really discussion of these topics should only take place when there is something concrete to discuss otherwise the rumour gets spread.


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## ElaineG (Jun 4, 2015)

Our National Police close the appointment list when it is is full for the current period and then ask people to come back on the day when they are starting a new list. 

Nothing has changed at my National Police office,and as has been said, the trigger for UK to leave has not been pulled so our status has not changed.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

ElaineG said:


> Our National Police close the appointment list when it is is full for the current period and then ask people to come back on the day when they are starting a new list.
> 
> Nothing has changed at my National Police office,and as has been said, the trigger for UK to leave has not been pulled so our status has not changed.


Why would it be quota based - makes no sense at all!

Are you saying that they only let a certain number in each 'period'? I wonder if this is documented any where.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Why would it be quota based - makes no sense at all!
> 
> Are you saying that they only let a certain number in each 'period'? I wonder if this is documented any where.


As you say, it's not based on letting a certain amount of people "in" in a certain period of time. It's just that appointment books fill up. If no more appointments are left, people have to go back later. In some police stations there are no problems. Where I used to go was Pozuelo in Madrid and you had to make an appointment for a few weeks in advance!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Why would it be quota based - makes no sense at all!
> 
> Are you saying that they only let a certain number in each 'period'? I wonder if this is documented any where.


At my nearest extranjeria (Torre del Mar) they only issue a fixed number of tickets each morning, and it is first come, first served. If you get to the front of the queue after the last ticket has been given out, you are told to come back another day. They have been operating this system for a number of years.


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## ElaineG (Jun 4, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> Why would it be quota based - makes no sense at all!
> 
> Are you saying that they only let a certain number in each 'period'? I wonder if this is documented any where.


I understand that they can only deal with a certain number of people per day, and thus make appointments for that number of people.

Before the appointments were introduced they used to take so many and tell the rest to return another day. 

Makes sense to me


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As you say, it's not based on letting a certain amount of people "in" ina certain period of time. It's just that appointment books fill up. If no more appointments are left, people have to go back later. In some police stations there are no problems. Where I used to go was Pozuelo in Madrid and you had to make an appointment for a few weeks in advance!





Lynn R said:


> At my nearest extranjeria (Torre del Mar) they only issue a fixed number of tickets each morning, and it is first come, first served. If you get to the front of the queue after the last ticket has been given out, you are told to come back another day. They have been operating this system for a number of years.





ElaineG said:


> I understand that they can only deal with a certain number of people per day, and thus make appointments for that number of people.
> 
> Before the appointments were introduced they used to take so many and tell the rest to return another day.
> 
> Makes sense to me


That's exactly how it worked in Dénia until they introduced online appts. You had to turn up early on a Friday morning & a certain number of appts would be issued for the following week. If you were next in the queue after the last appt was issued, you were told to come back the following Friday.

Translators would make a fortune just queuing & getting appts for lots of people for the following week - & then charging again for the actual appt......

Not sure how it works now with the online system, though I do know someone who booked that way & the first appt she could get was 3 weeks after the day she booked it.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As you say, it's not based on letting a certain amount of people "in" in a certain period of time. It's just that appointment books fill up. If no more appointments are left, people have to go back later. In some police stations there are no problems. Where I used to go was Pozuelo in Madrid and you had to make an appointment for a few weeks in advance!


... and that's why I'm confused.

We were 4th in the queue and they only issue 4 tickets each morning (no one in front was doing a 'group'). So why were we told to come back in a week or two?

That's what makes me think that maybe there is a 'monthly' quota or similar - but why?

I'll wait 'till next time but if it happens again I guess I'll have to complain to the consulate as suggested.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... and that's why I'm confused.
> 
> We were 4th in the queue and they only issue 4 tickets each morning (no one in front was doing a 'group'). So why were we told to come back in a week or two?
> 
> ...


Maybe they're only doing 3 atm? Maybe whoever does them is going to be on holiday for a couple of weeks?

I'd see why you're concerned if you hadn't been last in the queue & someone (not British) behind you was given an appointment. Is that what happened?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> Maybe they're only doing 3 atm? Maybe whoever does them is going to be on holiday for a couple of weeks?
> 
> I'd see why you're concerned if you hadn't been last in the queue & someone (not British) behind you was given an appointment. Is that what happened?


Yes, people (not from UK) behind were given tickets.

However, maybe they were simply waiting to get their NIE's whereas my friends wanted to sign on the register.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Yes, people (not from UK) behind were given tickets.
> 
> However, maybe they were simply waiting to get their NIE's whereas my friends wanted to sign on the register.


OK - I've just spoken to a couple of people who have helped Brits register in Dénia as recently as yesterday. No problems whatsoever there.

Which office was it? Either something odd is going on there or you're right & the others in the queue weren't registering.

istr that you've had problems of other kinds at the extranjería you use before? Or maybe it was the INSS :confused2:


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> OK - I've just spoken to a couple of people who have helped Brits register in Dénia as recently as yesterday. No problems whatsoever there.
> 
> Which office was it? Either something odd is going on there or you're right & the others in the queue weren't registering.
> 
> istr that you've had problems of other kinds at the extranjería you use before? Or maybe it was the INSS :confused2:


It was the INSS before.

We're in Ontinyent.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> It was the INSS before.
> 
> We're in Ontinyent.


I know where you are 

I just didnt realise that you could do resident certs actually IN Ontinyent!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I know where you are
> 
> I just didnt realise that you could do resident certs actually IN Ontinyent!


For a while they closed a lot of local offices and moved it up to Valencia. Within just a couple of months they realised the error of their ways and the local offices opened up again.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

If the powers to be faff about like this is it any wonder many just don't bother registering. I can assure you if I got all my ducks in a row and went to register only to be assed about I would think, fine - if they don't want me to bother I won't


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> For a while they closed a lot of local offices and moved it up to Valencia. Within just a couple of months they realised the error of their ways and the local offices opened up again.


Makes sense

I didn't realise how big Ontinyent is - when we drove through it seemed really small - but it has a higher population than Jávea 

tbh I think it would make more sense to have an extranjería in Jávea than in Dénia which is where we have to go. Yes Dénia has a higher population, but Jávea has tons more foreigners


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> If the powers to be faff about like this is it any wonder many just don't bother registering. I can assure you if I got all my ducks in a row and went to register only to be assed about I would think, fine - if they don't want me to bother I won't


I do see where you're coming from - but in the end it's in your interests to be registered.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> If the powers to be faff about like this is it any wonder many just don't bother registering. I can assure you if I got all my ducks in a row and went to register only to be assed about I would think, fine - if they don't want me to bother I won't


99.9% of the time there is no problem. Make your appointment online (cita previa) and turn up at the appointed time. Same with social security (INSS).

https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/pagina/index/directorio/icpplus


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> 99.9% of the time there is no problem. Make your appointment online (cita previa) and turn up at the appointed time. Same with social security (INSS).
> 
> https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/pagina/index/directorio/icpplus


exactly

although not all extranjerías have an online appointment system


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi, we made ( through a Gestoria) an appointment for yesterday, they checked we had all relevant paperwork and gave us an appointment for to-day at 1pm. This appointment took 20 mins and hubby was given residency . This was in Gandia


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

paintersmate said:


> Hi, we made ( through a Gestoria) an appointment for yesterday, they checked we had all relevant paperwork and gave us an appointment for to-day at 1pm. This appointment took 20 mins and hubby was given residency . This was in Gandia


And that's how it usually works  

I'm curious as to why only your husband registered though?


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi, apparently, we needed 650e each a month showing a "periodical income) although we have plenty in uk bank left from sale of our UK property and 20ke in Spanish bank, Im not yet pension age and donot have a monthly income. So lawyer suggested getting it for hubby now and me, at a later date


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> If the powers to be faff about like this is it any wonder many just don't bother registering. I can assure you if I got all my ducks in a row and went to register only to be assed about I would think, fine - if they don't want me to bother I won't


Who's faffing about?
People are still registering aren't they?
Just sometimes you have to go back another day.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

paintersmate said:


> Hi, apparently, we needed 650e each a month showing a "periodical income) although we have plenty in uk bank left from sale of our UK property and 20ke in Spanish bank, Im not yet pension age and donot have a monthly income. So lawyer suggested getting it for hubby now and me, at a later date


Does your husband get his state pension?

If so, your lawyer needs to be shot. You can register as your husband's dependant - & that covers you for healthcare too. You would need your own S1, which you would get from Newcastle - again as your husband's dependant.

Even if that isn't the case, the lawyer still needs shooting. The bank balance alone is more than enough to satisfy any extranjería for two people, even with no regular income shown.

I think on another thread you said that you own property here? That would also be taken into account for registering


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

I have state health cover as a dependent of a UK pensioner , we have followed all the legal requirements and the first thing they asked for today was copies of our monthly income, bank statements etc and I believe they wouldnt have given todays appointment without verifying yesterday all documents were in place. As there can be so many varying thoughts of what is required, we could only follow our legal advise


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

paintersmate said:


> I have state health cover as a dependent of a UK pensioner , we have followed all the legal requirements and the first thing they asked for today was copies of our monthly income, bank statements etc and I believe they wouldnt have given todays appointment without verifying yesterday all documents were in place. As there can be so many varying thoughts of what is required, we could only follow our legal advise


Yes that's right - you have healthcare as you should then  

did you actually try to register, or did you just take the word of the lawyer?

Were I you - I'd go back without the lawyer, maybe with a translator - & see if you can register

I'd bet anything that you are successful.

It could cause you all kinds of problems if you aren't, but your husband is


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Who's faffing about?
> People are still registering aren't they?
> Just sometimes you have to go back another day.


Pretty simple really 

If I have my own private health care , no kids to register in schools etc- I am getting very little out of registering

So I would do my best to comply -but if it doesn't work out- no biggy


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I do see where you're coming from - but in the end it's in your interests to be registered.



Remind me- how exactly is it of benefit to me

Own healthcare, no kids needing schools etc- list the benefits


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Remind me- how exactly is it of benefit to me
> 
> Own healthcare, no kids needing schools etc- list the benefits


It would be nice to list a load of benefits that immigrants get for doing this, but actually there aren't that many as such, but here is some info, cut and pasted from other posts

1. First of all you don't apply for residency. You apply for *a certificate of residence. *These names cause endless confusion. All you are doing is allowing your name to be included on a list. Don't forget you are on a large number of other lists whether you like it or not. People know what you Google and how many times you Google it, where you shop, what you buy, when you last drew out money and where you last drove to. All of the above seem much more worrying than being included on a list of law abiding foreigners in Sain.

2. According to Spanish law you don't choose whether to apply for it or not. You need it to be living here legally.

3. You have to have a Certificate of Residence after you have lived here for 90 days, which is approx 3 months.

4. If you don't have the certificate you may not be able to do certain bank transactions, you may not be able to buy certain things like a house or a car, some landlords want it, you will not be able to work legally, you won't be able to sign on as a self employed worker etc. 

To get that piece of paper you need to have health insurance, money in the bank, and income. By being included on the list you are stating that that you have complied with the governments' regulations.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who don't have the Certificate of Residence. After all, the police don't normally come knocking at doors, but there is a likelihood that they will get caught out in some legal transaction, medical emergency etc. Not being registered is sometimes used by police as a first inkling that something's not right so they may use that as an excuse to investigate a bit further 
What would happen if caught? Deportation seems unlikey, so a fine which oscilates between 501€ and 10,000€?As you are living here illegally the authorities will be able to fine you. This is _una infraccion grave_ and the fine is between 501€ and 10.000€.

I can't see what the disadvantages are to having a certificate, and like I said before, it's not based around deciding, advantages and disadvantages, options or the like. It's a legal requirement.

All you have to do is queue to get a piece of paper. Why wouldn't you get it?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

You do not require residency to buy either a house or a car!- and the scare stories about fines are getting a bit tiresome with virtually no one getting fined which in turn shows how seriously the authorities don't take this stuff. I do often think over zealous expats are more intrested in this stuff than the Spanish

My point isn't to avoid doing what's required but simply to get across that if through either jobsworths or inefficient officialdom those trying to comply find they cannot- it's far from the end of the world


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> You do not require residency to buy either a house or a car!- and the scare stories about fines are getting a bit tiresome with virtually no one getting fined which in turn shows how seriously the authorities don't take this stuff. I do often think over zealous expats are more intrested in this stuff than the Spanish
> 
> My point isn't to avoid doing what's required but simply to get across that if through either jobsworths or inefficient officialdom those trying to comply find they cannot- it's far from the end of the world


Why Rabbitcat, I didn't know you had knowledge about the whole of Spain and what is needed for each transaction in every local authority, in fact I suspect you don't...
I have been asked for my certificate for somethings and not for others. I live in the Comunidad de Madrid. You are right though, I've used it very few times, but where I have been asked for it every year and several times a year is to work as I am autónoma and to go on and off which I do every summer I'm asked to present it (well now they have it scanned). Now maybe in Denia, or Cadiz, or el pueblito blano al final del camino y a la derecha, you don't need to do it.
I'm also interested in getting Spanish nationality. I won't get it with out the green certificate.
But anyway, as I said, I've got no problem in complying. You don't want to. Seems like you're at odds with Spain from the word go


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Sigh....

At the end of the day everyone should attempt to comply, God knows there are enough sycophantic ex pats with too much time on their hands to remind us all

But if after trying your best for whatever reason you are unable to get that bit of paper- life goes on, more or less unchanged. The situ I gave as an example was someone not working, own healthcare,no kids etc. No one has yet gave me an answer to the advantages in such a scenario. 

Yes of course it's a legal technicality- no more than that or the authorities would enforce it which they rarely do ESP for EU citizens - but so is having bicycle lamps for evening cycling and that's enforced probably more than the residency issue

Ps I repeat despite your assertion Residency is NOT required for house or car purchase


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> You do not require residency to buy either a house or a car!- and the scare stories about fines are getting a bit tiresome with virtually no one getting fined which in turn shows how seriously the authorities don't take this stuff. I do often think over zealous expats are more intrested in this stuff than the Spanish
> 
> My point isn't to avoid doing what's required but simply to get across that if through either jobsworths or inefficient officialdom those trying to comply find they cannot- it's far from the end of the world


Firstly, most funcionarios are neither jobworths nor inefficient. Some are, but not most, & the vast majority find registering a very simple one trip few minutes procedure

Why is it in your interests?

Thousands who didn't register even though they lived here before April 2012 are kicking themselves & spending a few 100€ a month on healthcare when they would be getting it free if they had had their paperwork in order.

The govt has already said that legal British residents will be fine after Brexit. That could of course change - but whereas an EU citizen can't be expelled from the country for not being registered, a non-EU citizen - & that's what we'll be in all likelihood, can not only be expelled if here for more than 90 days in 180 - but can also be banned from returning for up to 10 years. 

Legal residents have access to various 'perks' depending on where they live, too. Some aytos offer various discounts for various things for legal residents - not just those on the local padrón

Apart from that it's a legal requirement

But you know that already, since we've had this discussion several times before


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> and the scare stories about fines are getting a bit tiresome with virtually no one getting fined which in turn shows how seriously the authorities don't take this stuff. I do often think over zealous expats are more intrested in this stuff than the Spanish
> 
> My point isn't to avoid doing what's required but simply to get across that if through either jobsworths or inefficient officialdom those trying to comply find they cannot- it's far from the end of the world


I gave information. I don't have any scare stories, or any stories for that matter about people being fined. I didn't post with the idea of scaring anybody. However, it is a fact that the official comeback is a fine. They are occasionally given out, but no, not often as you say. Hearing or reading that may be tiresome for you, but I'm not going to stop posting it, mainly because it's correct.
I obviously wouldn't describe myself as an _over zealous expat_. (I actually rarely use the term expat to describe myself). As I told you before I use the certificate regularly for work purposes.
I'd also like to disagree with your vision of jobsworths. Of course there are, but most are just doing their job, following what they've been told to do. Sometimes they are at fault, but more often than not it's the system. As for efficiency, in the last 5 years the differences in quality of service that I have encountered have been amazing. I think it's improved about 75%.

I'll say it again
I can't see what the disadvantages are to having a certificate, and like I said before, it's not based around deciding, advantages and disadvantages, options or the like. It's a legal requirement.
Obviously some decide against it, but I wouldn't broadcast it.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

To be described as sycophantic expats with too much time on our hands simply for advocatng that people coming to live here should comply with the legal requirements of the Spanish Government, whether there is something in it for them or not, is offensive. Personally I believe that immigrants to a country should always comply with the law. The fac that some don't is something to be deplored, not held up as an example for others to follow.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Obviously some decide against it, but I wouldn't broadcast it.


I see no problem with conveying facts - whether I agree with their sentiments or not!

If some are not bothering then this is how it is and should be reported for fair discussion (IMHO). However, like you, I always try and point out the legalities of the situation.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I see no problem with conveying facts - whether I agree with their sentiments or not!
> 
> If some are not bothering then this is how it is and should be reported for fair discussion (IMHO). However, like you, I always try and point out the legalities of the situation.


As I said, *I *wouldn't broadcast it.
I'm not so sure it fits in with the idea of the forum either, but I'll leave that up to others.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I see no problem with conveying facts - whether I agree with their sentiments or not!
> 
> If some are not bothering then this is how it is and* should be reported for fair discussion *(IMHO). However, like you, I always try and point out the legalities of the situation.


It never ceases to amaze me how many people are open about not registering, not paying tax etc., especially on FB groups. 

I do know people who would - & do - happily report them to the authorities

I can't say I understand your point which I've highlighted in red, though :confused2:


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As I said, *I *wouldn't broadcast it.
> I'm not so sure it fits in with the idea of the forum either, but I'll leave that up to others.


... and that's fine but provided one doesn't break any rules, then this is an 'open' forum where anything can be discussed.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> To be described as sycophantic expats with too much time on our hands simply for advocatng that people coming to live here should comply with the legal requirements of the Spanish Government, whether there is something in it for them or not, is offensive. Personally I believe that immigrants to a country should always comply with the law. The fac that some don't is something to be deplored, not held up as an example for others to follow.


Lighten up Lynn.
I have consistently said everyone should do their best to comply and abide by the rules

However the facts are just that facts- numerous thousands do not for a variety of reasons and the vast majority have normal lives in Espana. Live and let live


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how many people are open about not registering, not paying tax etc., especially on FB groups.
> 
> I do know people who would - & do - happily report them to the authorities
> 
> I can't say I understand your point which I've highlighted in red, though :confused2:





> ... should be reported for fair discussion ...


meaning, should be documented/reported upon/written about etc. for a fair and balanced discussion.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> meaning, should be documented/reported upon/written about etc. for a fair and balanced discussion.


Still confused....

Are you talking about discussion on the forum?

If so - do you mean that you believe that if most members are posting the legalities, we need others to post that they plan to ignore them, in the interests of a balanced discussion 


Surely you can't mean that?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Lighten up Lynn.
> I have consistently said everyone should do their best to comply and abide by the rules
> 
> However the facts are just that facts- numerous thousands do not for a variety of reasons and the vast majority have normal lives in Espana. Live and let live


I very much doubt that there are numerous thousands who haven't registered. 


Of course there are some though. One thing the Brexit will do is make it much more difficult for British citizens to remain under the radar 'living' in EU countries without registering etc., moving back & forth, playing the 'healthcare game'.

BTW - I just though of another advantage to registering (though you seem to have ignored my previous post listing a few) 

Resident bank accounts are cheaper.....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

anyway :focus:

judging by the number of reports I've seen of people registering in the past week or so, it would appear that Spain hasn't stopped British citizens registering

or if it HAS, then a lot of extranjerías are ignoring it....


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think it is just because it's August. Hardly anything happens in Ayuntamientos and other public offices on the CDS.

I think anyone not having a NIE would find life very difficult. We have been asked for it on many occasions. I know our friends couldn't buy a car without one or take out a rental contract.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Isobella said:


> I think it is just because it's August. Hardly anything happens in Ayuntamientos and other public offices on the CDS.
> 
> I think anyone not having a NIE would find life very difficult. We have been asked for it on many occasions. I know our friends couldn't buy a car without one or take out a rental contract.


Yes I think the fact that it's summer & that's when funcionarios are thin on the ground, has a lot to do with it. They like their holidays in summer too  

You for sure can't buy a car without a NIE, but many agents & property owners will allow you to rent without one.


You don't need to be a registered resident to buy a car, nor to buy a house, of course.

But those of us who are resident will show our resident cards/certs when asked for an 'official' proof of NIE. 

I just thought of something else you CAN'T do without a resident card/cert. though. Take a driving test, or renew your driving licence.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Genuinely don't know the answer and just sort of thinking out loud but I don't get why the authorities want residency registration after 90 consecutive days not 90 in total. 

Someone having a day or two break outside of Spain can easily continue to rack up a total 170+ days and not face the requirement whilst other poor sods are needing to sign up from day 91


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Genuinely don't know the answer and just sort of thinking out loud but I don't get why the authorities want residency registration after 90 consecutive days not 90 in total.
> 
> Someone having a day or two break outside of Spain can easily continue to rack up a total 170+ days and not face the requirement whilst other poor sods are needing to sign up from day 91


it's an EU ruling

to me, it would make more sense to link it to tax residency


I just don't understand why you think it's such a hassle though. For most it's a very simple procedure which takes just a few minutes


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I agree for once with you on the point that it would make more sense to link it to the tax requirements.

Again I repeat I have never encouraged anyone not to comply as best as possible. 

I have however in the past highlighted the absurdity of needing to go through this for a 14 week stay. Indeed I was advised by one gestor that as it can take up to 4 weeks for the de registration paperwork to go through, for such a stay one would be best to apply for registration and deregistration at the same time!

Though for some a break of a day or two may solve any hassle on say a four or five month stay


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I for one, think that we Brits (seems to be us more than any other nationality in my experience) tend to take these rules far too literally.

I would like to think that common sense prevails at some point.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

You are 101% correct. I genuinely think the authorities relaxed attitude confirms that a reasonable leeway is given


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

What's never been clear to me is what happens if you have a home in the UK and a home in Spain and spend a few months in Spain each year - more than 90 consecutive days. I have a few friends in that position.

You surely aren't expected to keep signing on and off the residents' register every time you come and go?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> What's never been clear to me is what happens if you have a home in the UK and a home in Spain and spend a few months in Spain each year - more than 90 consecutive days. I have a few friends in that position.
> 
> You surely aren't expected to keep signing on and off the residents' register every time you come and go?


That's what is so daft about it, isn't it?

I wonder how other EU countries deal with it. I know that in the UK it has been optional but not a requirement to register - don't know if it still is. 

But of course there it's in your interest to register, since then you can access healthcare & so on. 

I know Britain has apparently won the right to not pay benefits to EU citizens unless they have worked for (I think) 5 years. But I'm not sure about healthcare, nor if anyone actually gets refused.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> What's never been clear to me is what happens if you have a home in the UK and a home in Spain and spend a few months in Spain each year - more than 90 consecutive days. I have a few friends in that position.
> 
> You surely aren't expected to keep signing on and off the residents' register every time you come and go?


Exactly my point, indeed my bugbear

The answer I believe is no .

Well let's just say I cannot see the authorities getting too exercised re such a situ ( as long as not working in Spain etc) .

Some ex pats however, well there we may have a few choking on their Gaviscon at such " criminality!"


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Exactly my point, indeed my bugbear
> 
> The answer I believe is no .
> 
> ...


And we've been down this path before too.

I doubt many if any of us are in the least bit bothered by those who are genuinely here for long holidays not being registered.

What we do get annoyed about is those who genuinely live here & don't register. Usually they are the same ones who are living under the radar, not paying tax, using the EHIC here & also going 'home' for anything 'serious' so cheating their 'home country' twice, working illegally, doing uninsured airport runs etc etc.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Exactly my point, indeed my bugbear
> 
> The answer I believe is no .
> 
> ...


I think it depends on your circumstances a great deal. I live here all the time and I work here, all the time. if I was coming for less than a year I might think about it (although my daughter was recently in Belguim for 6 months, and she registered and de registered).
If you're going to live in a place it seems a good idea to do find out what they expect you to do and see if you're prepared to follow through on that or not. If not, maybe the fit isn't right.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Sadly Xabia the point is if we are to take your and others over zealous enthusiasm for enforcement of the law to the letter there is no room for " well maybe long holidays are ok"

Brings us right back to- always do your utmost to comply, if it ain't feasible, don't sweat


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Sadly Xabia the point is if we are to take your and others over zealous enthusiasm for enforcement of the law to the letter there is no room for " well maybe long holidays are ok"
> 
> Brings us right back to- always do your utmost to comply, if it ain't feasible, don't sweat


None of us here enforce the law - that isn't up to us.

What most members will do though, is make people aware of it.

What they do with that information is entirely up to them


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Lol

Well I am happy with my own position and for what it's worth advice to members/ readers- these rules are not ( enforced) hard and fast however always do your utmost to comply 

If however it is not feasible or in the case of eg 4 month stay, pointless- don't sweat, enjoy your long hols


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I know Britain has apparently won the right to not pay benefits to EU citizens unless they have worked for (I think) 5 years. But I'm not sure about healthcare, nor if anyone actually gets refused.


I thought that was one of the pre-referendum concessions offered to Cameron, but it was invalidated after the vote. I think it's three months before you can claim benefits. Healthcare is free to everyone "ordinarily resident" in the UK, EHIC covers shorter visits.

For a pensioner moving regularly between the two countries it would seem sensible to have residency in Spain with S1 cover, because while in the UK they now get free NHS care from the day they return.
http://www.nhs.uk/ipgmedia/national...AguidetohospitaltreatmentintheUKMCS5pages.pdf


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## Jumar (Mar 14, 2012)

I can see the case for pensioners signing the register, but for people under the retirement age they have to show they have health cover. Can you get that for, say, four months only and then the same again some months later when you've deregistered and have to re-register???


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Jumar said:


> I can see the case for pensioners signing the register, but for people under the retirement age they have to show they have health cover. Can you get that for, say, four months only and then the same again some months later when you've deregistered and have to re-register???


Personally, and I know opinions differ on this, I would not register as a resident for a four-month visit, which is really just an extended holiday, and I would use an EHIC for emergency health care. As stated on the Spanish government site, possession of a return ticket would indicate the temporary nature of the visit, and you'd need a bank statement showing you've got enough to live on.




> *Journeys undertaken for the purposes of tourism or for private reasons*
> 
> In these cases, submission of any of the following documents may be required:
> 
> ...


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

The simple answer is no


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Jumar said:


> I can see the case for pensioners signing the register, but for people under the retirement age they have to show they have health cover. Can you get that for, say, four months only and then the same again some months later when you've deregistered and have to re-register???


Some of us under pensionable age, and not working, have been here long enough for it to not be a problem - we (should) get free health care once registered.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I know people who spend just under six months of the year in Spain and the rest of the time at their homes in the UK, or elesewhere - but they keep each of their visits to no more than 90 days so they comply with the law, and they don't wish to become tax resident in Spain, so they comply with that too. That's what I would do, if I were in that position.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yes as I have said leaving the country for short periods- does seem to be the only way if you want to uphold the letter of the law. 

How fussed the authorities would be re those staying 5 or six weeks over the 90 days is a matter for debate


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Here's something from another thread a while ago


> Most people think that not being registered would only come to light (if you are among the group of people who don't seem to "need" the registration certificate for any purpose, unlike myself) if you were involved in a "situation". If the situation is not one where you are involved in some kind of offence (ie you are involved in an accident that you didn't provoke or you are robbed) then probably nothing will happen. If however, you are involved in some kind of crime (Anything from speeding to drug smuggling) this could be a useful way of bringing you in.
> 
> *This is the official comeback. *
> Depending on the circumstances, not having your papers in order can be
> ...


Posted for information purposes by an non zealous immigrant...


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Just seen/heard that the Spanish government has suspended, until further notice, all applications for residencia from UK citizens.
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting because we took friends to our local extranjeria last Friday. They waited from 6am for a ticket only to be told that they weren't issuing them until 8th August. We went back later and asked why but were told that we should come back on 1st (not 8th)).
> ...


It's not just the foreigners experiencing problems: Sin cita para el DNI hasta octubre en casi toda España - Informacion.es


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The Skipper said:


> It's not just the foreigners experiencing problems: Sin cita para el DNI hasta octubre en casi toda España - Informacion.es


Well, that explain s a lot and should go some way to stop rumours about the British being singled out for negative action


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

So it's mainly down to not upgrading the IT systems properly to cope with the new electronic DNI, plus bad human resource management. We're British, we should be used to this sort of thing!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> So it's mainly down to not upgrading the IT systems properly to cope with the new electronic DNI, plus bad human resource management. We're British, we should be used to this sort of thing!


Electronic DNI ??

Care to elaborate.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Electronic DNI ??
> 
> Care to elaborate.


Google sent me here http://www.dnielectronico.es/PDFs/Guia_de_referencia_basica_v1_5.pdf

I didn't know about it either until I read the article posted by The Skipper. 

It's only for Spanish nationals, of course


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

DNI is for Spanish nationals, NIE is for non-Spanish nationals. The E in NIE_ stands for extranjero_.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> DNI is for Spanish nationals, NIE is for non-Spanish nationals. The E in NIE_ stands for extranjero_.


[sarcasm]Much clearer now, thanks![/sarcasm]


Joking aside, I guess some people may not know ..


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> If were true, then Spain would be in breach of EU regulations



When has Spain ever cared about them ! Lol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

el romeral said:


> When has Spain ever cared about them ! Lol


I reckon Spain applies them as much as any other EU country - but I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can give me examples


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I reckon Spain applies them as much as any other EU country - but I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can give me examples


I can only think of one, and that's allowing growers to take too much groundwater in the Doñana national park for their strawberries etc. It's supposed to protect it, as a world heritage site.

European Commission urges Spain to protect Doñana World Heritage site | WWF


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Whilst we have a bit of craic on here re the rights/ wrongs / shenanigans re residency application I think what puts many off is no one seems to know the exact rules

Is it €600 each income per month PLUS lump sum or is it either/or?

If married if one partner has sufficient income for both is that acceptable ?

Whilst the rule says after 90 days - does that mean you must apply on day 91 or how far after can you apply?

It's the fact that there's no uniformity in the application on to these rules that makes many blasé about even applying

. Certainly if you find the criteria being applied to your application is more strident than that of others which results in you being turned down, I can fully understand some at that point saying sod this


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> [sarcasm]Much clearer now, thanks![/sarcasm]
> 
> 
> Joking aside, I guess some people may not know ..


That's why I posted it. Some of us have been here for years and know these things, some are just setting out on the journey. Never assume something is too obvious to spell out.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Whilst we have a bit of craic on here re the rights/ wrongs / shenanigans re residency application I think what puts many off is no one seems to know the exact rules
> 
> Is it €600 each income per month PLUS lump sum or is it either/or?
> 
> ...


You can register the day you arrive if you want. You don't have to wait 90 days. You _should_ register within the 90 days.

As for how much.... recently our local office (Dénia) asked for 700€ a month plus 7000€ in the bank for a single person - last summer the same office told someone else 10,000€ per person in the bank

I agree that the lack of firm info as to requirements doesn't help. Though anyone with a state pension from an EU country will be accepted, as will their dependants, regardless of how much or how little the pension is. I'm guessing that because healthcare is covered that way, there is no concern that the person will be a drain on the state.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

But what if you are not pension age. If you are married with one partner having enough for both, is that acceptable?

Maybe some places yes, some places no.

What I am saying is at that point if you have been turned down despite having what has been acceptable in others applications one could well be excused of thinking- I tried to comply but they rejected my application!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I reckon Spain applies them as much as any other EU country - but I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can give me examples


Spain is pretty rubbish when it comes to infringements but that said 6 member states cause 40% of the infringements and that includes Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Greece & Poland.

This link should give a rough idea but it is not everything...
Infringements - European Commission

The archives are good too.
Infringement cases by country - European Commission

And I think that is just the list for tax and customs, a bit of digging would likely find all the other cases like unsafe drinking water and various others.

Here is the environment cases.
Infringement Cases - Legislation - Environment - European Commission

I also reckon there are whole lots of everyday bureaucracy that probably violates something but is over looked.

But yes, it is not just Spain that is for sure.

Here is the finance.
http://ec.europa.eu/finance/enforcement/infringements/index_en.htm


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Whilst we have a bit of craic on here re the rights/ wrongs / shenanigans re residency application I think what puts many off is no one seems to know the exact rules
> 
> Is it €600 each income per month PLUS lump sum or is it either/or?
> 
> ...


As with many Spanish laws the fine details are not set in stone. This gives individual regions a bit of flexibility. To Brits, this looks like they are being woolly, but they don't see it like that. It means they can use a bit of discretion, and they do.

The minimum income is per person, not per family. This includes children. It doesn't matter if the income is only earned by one family member, provided there is enough to cover the whole family. You also need health insurance.

If you are planning to live in Spain, you should register as a resident as soon as possible. I think you can do so before the 90 days are up. It means you can get your NIE, get somewhere to live, open a resident bank account, get a mobile phone contract, and basically get on with your new life. 

However if you are planning to return to the UK, and have evidence such as a return ticket, you don't have to.

If you just leave it and don't bother, you're only really hurting yourself.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I understand what you're saying Alcalaina but if the rules say one thing and the clerk on the other side of the desk says another what do you do? I will always advocate do all you can to comply by the rules- but if the authorities aren't accepting that, what are you really meant to do

I certainly wouldn't bother worrying about if if I applied and was turned down despite complying with the rules

Ps some have been told you need to show a 3 month history of your income before application!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> I understand what you're saying Alcalaina but if the rules say one thing and the clerk on the other side of the desk says another what do you do? I will always advocate do all you can to comply by the rules- but if the authorities aren't accepting that, what are you really meant to do
> 
> I certainly wouldn't bother worrying about if if I applied and was turned down despite complying with the rules
> 
> Ps some have been told you need to show a 3 month history of your income before application!!


Yes it's frustrating. It's part of life here though. That's why the Spanish use gestors, they know the tricks. At least these days you don't have to resort to cash bribes!

What to do? Always be friendly and polite even though you want to punch them in the teeth. Don't shrug and leave, stay there till it's time for their break. Take a knowledgeable Spaniard with you to interpret and put your case. Go back next week and see if there's someone different on the desk. If all else fails, ask to see the next person up the chain. 

Turning on the charm sometimes works. I was having real trouble getting a duplicate of my S1 form from the INSS till I noticed a photo on the clerk's desk of her and a young man standing in front of the London Eye. I asked about it and she beamed, she was visiting her son who works in England. We chatted about her visit for a while and then she went and made a copy of the form I needed. My new best friend.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> I understand what you're saying Alcalaina* but if the rules say one thing and the clerk on the other side of the desk says another what do you do?* I will always advocate do all you can to comply by the rules- but if the authorities aren't accepting that, what are you really meant to do
> 
> I certainly wouldn't bother worrying about if if I applied and was turned down despite complying with the rules
> 
> Ps some have been told you need to show a 3 month history of your income before application!!


It's a good point, I mentioned earlier that when we went to sign on the padron they wanted our kids documents to be officially translated before they could accept them. I was told later that this is wrong but what are you to do?
Fork out 100 euro for a translation and go back I guess.

Realistically though we live here and have enough trouble trying to deal with these people just by following the rules. 

We need licenses for works and stuff so it's best to keep them on your good side(which is at arms length with a nod and a smile).

Imagine had we as newcomers strolled into the town hall for the first time and started telling them how to do their job, complain about intrusive street lights, pot holes in the road and the town water quality to then ask for a license to repair our fence.
I reckon they'd be on the phone before we even got to the planning dept and we would still be waiting for that license. Bloody foreigners huh?

Either way I'm washing my hands of these people, that is what a gestor is for, let them deal with it all.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Whilst we have a bit of craic on here re the rights/ wrongs / shenanigans re residency application I think what puts many off is no one seems to know the exact rules
> 
> Is it €600 each income per month PLUS lump sum or is it either/or?
> 
> ...


Spain is a big country with each region having different requirements for all kinds of things, not just getting pesky foreigners to sign on a list. Heck, they don't even all speak the same language let alone agree a common set of rules for everything. 

The best advice, imo, is to try and get advice from someone who's recently done 'it' and lives in your region, or better your town. Even then, expect a different funcionario to give you a different opinion. Come back another day. It's not just 'us' that gets this hassle, everyone does. Don't use it as an excuse not to comply. I know there are circumstances that are ridiculous to try and comply with, like staying for four months, so a bit of common sense is needed, but still, a 'sod this' attitude for most other situations isn't a good one. 

This is Spain, things aren't always straight forward or easy or make sense, get used to it, roll with the punches. On another thread recently (about driving licences), another poster was questioned why he hadn't asked why he had to have a medical. His reply was spot on -


> Originally Posted by Simon22
> Q- did you not question why you needed a medical but she didn't?
> A- No, I no longer wonder about these things, I just went and got the medical and they accepted it.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes it's frustrating. It's part of life here though. That's why the Spanish use gestors, they know the tricks. At least these days you don't have to resort to cash bribes!
> 
> What to do? Always be friendly and polite even though you want to punch them in the teeth. Don't shrug and leave, stay there till it's time for their break. Take a knowledgeable Spaniard with you to interpret and put your case. Go back next week and see if there's someone different on the desk. If all else fails, ask to see the next person up the chain.
> 
> Turning on the charm sometimes works. I was having real trouble getting a duplicate of my S1 form from the INSS till I noticed a photo on the clerk's desk of her and a young man standing in front of the London Eye. I asked about it and she beamed, she was visiting her son who works in England. We chatted about her visit for a while and then she went and made a copy of the form I needed. My new best friend.


But what if you don't have any charm, don't smile, are naturally unfriendly, a bit thick and generally a prat?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> I understand what you're saying Alcalaina but if the rules say one thing and the clerk on the other side of the desk says another what do you do? I will always advocate do all you can to comply by the rules- but if the authorities aren't accepting that, what are you really meant to do
> 
> I certainly wouldn't bother worrying about if if I applied and was turned down despite complying with the rules
> 
> Ps some have been told you need to show a 3 month history of your income before application!!


If you think that Spanish bureaucrats are denying you something that you are entitled to under EU law there is a very helpful and free service offered by the EU to fight your case. The service is called SOLVIT and is staffed by bureaucrats from throughout the EU who work together in Brussels to help resolve any problems reported to them. This is their website: What is SOLVIT? What problems can it solve? Basic explanation - European Commission


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> But what if you don't have any charm, don't smile, are naturally unfriendly, a bit thick and generally a prat?


You're ****ed


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> But what if you don't have any charm, don't smile, are naturally unfriendly, a bit thick and generally a prat?


Then send your wife.


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

My Hubby got residencia last Monday, but as he didnt get enough " periodcal Income " 1300e for both of us ( I am not yet pension age" only he was allowed it even though we have plenty of money in both spanish and british bank, They did want to see 3 months bank statements too, this was at Gandia and we had a gestoria with us


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

paintersmate said:


> My Hubby got residencia last Monday, but as he didnt get enough " periodcal Income " 1300e for both of us ( I am not yet pension age" only he was allowed it even though we have plenty of money in both spanish and british bank, They did want to see 3 months bank statements too, this was at Gandia and we had a gestoria with us


So he's resident and you're not? How bizarre! Does it bother you that everything will have to be in his name?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> So he's resident and you're not? How bizarre! Does it bother you that everything will have to be in his name?


The Spanish way is to keep EVERYTHING individual! Bank accounts, property, vehicles etc. etc.

Actually makes sense when you consider what can happen when one of the couple dies ...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> The Spanish way is to keep EVERYTHING individual! Bank accounts, property, vehicles etc. etc.
> 
> Actually makes sense when you consider what can happen when one of the couple dies ...


Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. We have a joint bank account where either party can withdraw or transfer funds without the other's consent. The property is in joint names. The only things that are "individual" i.e. in one person's name only are the utility bills, internet etc. That's a pain if I want to amend something and it's in the OH's name.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. We have a joint bank account where either party can withdraw or transfer funds without the other's consent. The property is in joint names. The only things that are "individual" i.e. in one person's name only are the utility bills, internet etc. That's a pain if I want to amend something and it's in the OH's name.


The problem arises when one of you die and your JOINT assets are all frozen! How do you then pay bills etc.?

A number of my Spanish friends are always surprised when I mention that we own everything jointly and then go on to tell me how 'it is in Spain'.

A friend divorced recently - it took just 48 hours. She owned her own flat whilst he owned the house (she owned all the contents though). They each had separate vehicles and bank accounts. There was NOTHING to divide!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> The problem arises when one of you die and your JOINT assets are all frozen! How do you then pay bills etc.?
> 
> A number of my Spanish friends are always surprised when I mention that we own everything jointly and then go on to tell me how 'it is in Spain'.


Not true, with a joint account the surviving account holder has access to 50% of the funds until the will is all sorted, and all the direct debits are honoured.

¿Qué pasa cuando muere el titular de una cuenta? - Rankia


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just seen/heard that the Spanish government has suspended, until further notice, all applications for residencia from UK citizens.
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting because we took friends to our local extranjeria last Friday. They waited from 6am for a ticket only to be told that they weren't issuing them until 8th August. We went back later and asked why but were told that we should come back on 1st (not 8th)).
> ...


What happened yesterday when you / they went back?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> What happened yesterday when you / they went back?


As we were told the 1st and then the 8th by someone else, we decided to play it safe and to go on the 8th. I will keep you updated though.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> What happened yesterday when you / they went back?


An update;

Went back this morning. Were told they were only going to be handing out 4 tickets at 9:00. At 5:15 this morning we were 7th in the queue.

Left and went back to bed!


Will try again in September. The person we are trying to help is getting more and more frustrated. Rather than it being 3 months, it will probably have taken nearer 6 - if we ever get one of the 'golden' tickets.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Nothing changes with Funcionarios. There used to be an article to translate on A level papers. Called 'Vuelva usted mañana' and written in the 19th century.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> An update;
> 
> Went back this morning. Were told they were only going to be handing out 4 tickets at 9:00. At 5:15 this morning we were 7th in the queue.
> 
> ...


Absolute madness- and they wonder why so many don't bother!!!!!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Absolute madness- and they wonder why so many don't bother!!!!!!


It really isn't like that everywhere, though. Someone I know went to Torre del Mar last week to register and had no problems at all, and they operate the limited number of tickets per day system too (more than 4, though1).


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I don't doubt you Lynn but lets get real,if the Spanish authorities were serious about the importance of getting registered for Residency- 4 in a day, don't bother after 9 am!!!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> I don't doubt you Lynn but lets get real,if the Spanish authorities were serious about the importance of getting registered for Residency- 4 in a day, don't bother after 9 am!!!!!


Ontinyent is a small local office in an area with a low % of foreigners.

In bigger offices there is online booking - so there's no hassle at all.

Probably those going to the Ontinyent office could choose to book online & go to one of the bigger offices. Though of course it would mean going a bit further away from home.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> Ontinyent is a small local office in an area with a low % of foreigners.
> 
> In bigger offices there is online booking - so there's no hassle at all.
> 
> Probably those going to the Ontinyent office could choose to book online & go to one of the bigger offices. Though of course it would mean going a bit further away from home.


The problem with booking an appointment online (in Barcelona at least, and you have to have an appointment, you can't just turn up) is that you have to be online at a specific time on a specific day and as soon as the diary for the week is full (usually within an hour) that's your lot for another week. People only know about the best day and time through trial and error or word of mouth, it doesn't say on the website, it lets you keep trying and trying. If you are lucky to get an appointment, it's usually for three or four weeks in advance. It's a nightmare but there's no way round it, unless you use an agent to do it for you, or live somewhere where it's more straightforward.


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