# thinking of buying again in Spain



## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

High everyone,

I am new to the forum and I am looking for views and advice. We sold our house near Nerja in the Costa Del Sol in 2009. This was mainly due to not being able to use it enough and the frustrations of just getting there for 6 weeks a year and then having to deal with all of the Spanish paperwork i.e bills etc.. Having now retired, not on state pension but on occupational pension of 18k and savings (I have 3 years to the state pension.) we have time to spend in Spain we are considering buying again in the same area but also buying a small property in the UK for the summer months when my wife can't bear the heat in Spain, so 6 months in each country. 

Having come across stories about all of the problems for ex pats now in Spain I asking members in Spain for their experiences and asking would they say 'do it or stay in the UK ?. We can get by in Spanish and will polish up our language skills. :fingerscrossed:


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Personally, I wouldn't want the hassle of running and paying for two properties in different countries. Could you not use the extra money to ensure a cool environment in your Spanish home to make the summers more bearable? Good insulation, air conditioning, shaded garden areas, pool...

You could always rent a house anywhere in the world for a holiday, if it gets too hot, with the money you save from not paying UK council tax, standing charges, TV licence, etc., let alone the capital sum saved from the purchase of a second property.

Think about your possible tax liabilities too, with each country wanting a cut of your money!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

There is a better climate in the Canary Islands, no heating needed, no air conditioning needed, hence no need to have a property in the U.K.


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks for the replies so far Madliz and Hepa. I would go to Spain as a resident but my wife wants a property in the UK , she says because of the summer weather but I suspect she wants it because she wants to come back and forth to family etc. I don't think it is negotiable at present so if we do it, it is 2 properties at least at first. 

We both love Spain but how do you find living there, we did spend a year out there in 2007 and it was great but as we both had sabbaticals from work we had to go back to UK. I think things might have changed there now so I am trying to get a handle on it from people who are living there, before we fully decide to spend time living there and invest in it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ABERAFON said:


> Thanks for the replies so far Madliz and Hepa. I would go to Spain as a resident but my wife wants a property in the UK , she says because of the summer weather but I suspect she wants it because she wants to come back and forth to family etc. I don't think it is negotiable at present so if we do it, it is 2 properties at least at first.
> 
> We both love Spain but how do you find living there, we did spend a year out there in 2007 and it was great but as we both had sabbaticals from work we had to go back to UK. I think things might have changed there now so I am trying to get a handle on it from people who are living there, before we fully decide to spend time living there and invest in it.


:welcome:

thing is - as far as Spain is concerned you are resident at 3 months & are expected to register as such 

also, at that point you're no longer 'on holiday' so wouldn't be able to use your EHIC for any healthcare needs - so you'd need some form of insurance

& apart from that, if you spend more than 182 days a calendar year here, you're tax resident & have to submit tax returns & asset declarations

nowadays it's really a case of jump in properly & move here or take several shorter breaks of less than 3 months & make sure that over the year you're here less than 182 days


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks Xibaechica that is really helpful. Because of what you have said and to avoid these problems We are not going to be in Spain for more than 180 days each year, at least to begin with. I think we would spend 3 separate lots of 2 months there so we would not make a full 3 months at any time and we would have insurance. When we had our villa there before ( we had it for 9 years) we were finding that the Spainish government were penalising non residents big time, but as we were working we could pay whatever. They did start to ease up by 2008, we have been told that they tend to treat residents and non residents the same now, is that the case or are they starting to look at non residents again as additional sources of income. We were also there during the big local junta corruption cases and wondered have the government cleaned up this problem.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Do it!

If you can afford to keep a property in both places, and if you enjoy the flexibility of choosing your spot at any point in time according to the prevailing weather conditions, well, that's pretty good, eh.

But I would say that. It's what I do.

But we have gone for an apartment in both places. I couldn't keep turning up to overgrown gardens and maintenance issues.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ABERAFON said:


> Thanks Xibaechica that is really helpful. Because of what you have said and to avoid these problems We are not going to be in Spain for more than 180 days each year, at least to begin with. I think we would spend 3 separate lots of 2 months there so we would not make a full 3 months at any time and we would have insurance. When we had our villa there before ( we had it for 9 years) we were finding that the Spainish government were penalising non residents big time, but as we were working we could pay whatever. They did start to ease up by 2008, we have been told that they tend to treat residents and non residents the same now, is that the case or are they starting to look at non residents again as additional sources of income. We were also there during the big local junta corruption cases and wondered have the government cleaned up this problem.


if you own property here there's still non-resident tax to pay, & I believe 'inheritance tax' (or whatever they call it here ) is higher for non-residents, as are bank charges

there are still corruption cases going on - but I guess at least something is being done about them now

this is the big one in the news atm El independentismo pretende culpar a Espa?a del caso Pujol - ABC.es


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Life here is good, far cheaper than the U.K., or the Peninsular, no winters, no frost, rain perhaps four days a year. However we are retired on good pensions, I am an O.A.P. so we both can access the Canary Island health care. 

We both speak Castellano and have made many friends, we live on a small island where there is little crime, and only two other English residents. We take our breaks on other islands or different parts of Spain.

Family visit us, all are grown up and most are middle aged.

For a while we had properties in both countries, however it was such a relief when the one in England was sold.

At the moment we are awaiting the result of an application for Spanish nationality.


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the posts these are really helpful for us. I have read this forum for some while before registering and find it interesting to hear peoples experiences and advice. Horlics as someone doing what we want to do what are the main disadvantages you find, other than the garden as we love the garden we would want one in both properties. Thanks for the info on taxes Xibaechica, these are far less then when we had property before and Hepa I like the idea of the canary Islands perhaps we need to look at these.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Last year, some good friends of ours expressed an interest in buying a property in Spain and came out for a preliminary recce. They were in much the same position as yourselves, wanting a place to spend the winter months but not to stay here all year round as they don't like very hot weather.

Once we'd explained to them the non-resident taxes, IBI bills, community fees, standing charges for electricity and water, and above all, the inheritance tax implications for non-residents, they decided to stay with their UK property and take a rental in their preferred area (Nerja) for 4/5 months in the winter instead.


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks Lynn,
The bills don't really worry us as we had a villa near Competa for 9 years, no community fees of course but all of the rest, although we did have a private water supply. The inheritance implications are the thing that worries me really. We did look for rentals but could not find one for this year so far but will be looking again in September. How do you find living in the area, would you ever want to come back to UK ever. We did love it around there when we had property, so pretty.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The bills, even the non-residents tax, would be far less than paying rental. But the biggest problem would be if you decided to sell up at some time in the future and couldn't find a buyer. It's not at all easy to sell a property these days, because there are so many empty ones and prices are still falling. 

There are literally thousands of Brits in Spain stuck with properties they can't get rid of. Some have gone back to the UK and just abandoned them - there's one in our village. There are also two cases where the owners have died and their children have inherited property which they never really wanted, they can't sell it but they still have to pay the upkeep.

You're better off renting IMO. There are plenty of bargains to be had out of season.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

My house is for sale and when a buyer arrives :fingerscrossed: I'm moving down south. 

Move back to the UK? No thanks!

There are frustrations and problems wherever in the world you are, but for me, the advantages here are greater. Climate, food and cost of living are the main ones for me.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ABERAFON said:


> How do you find living in the area, would you ever want to come back to UK ever.


We love it here, and no we wouldn't! I usually go back to the UK for a long weekend twice a year (for my OH it's weddings and funerals only, and those only on sufferance), and that's quite enough.

I don't have children and neither of my OH's 2 adult children have children of their own, so we don't have that thing of missing the grandchildren that I know many older people find very difficult.

I like the climate here and personally don't find it unbearably hot in the summer (I think the weather in La Axarquia is about the best that can be found anywhere in mainland Spain provided you aren't too far inland).


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> The bills, even the non-residents tax, would be far less than paying rental.


I bet you could fund a few years of winter rentals out of what you'd need to pay in transfer tax, legal and notary fees on a purchase, though!

Up to the crash, when prices were rising that didn't matter so much because you could recoup that when you sold. Very different story now, though, and as you say many people are finding it impossible to sell, especially if they bought near the top of the market and can't take a big hit by selling at today's prices.

I don't mean to sound as though I wouldn't buy here now - I would, provided I wanted to be here all year. I much prefer the lifestyle here and in my experience at least the running costs of my Spanish house are far less than we paid in the UK.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

ABERAFON said:


> Horlics as someone doing what we want to do what are the main disadvantages you find, other than the garden as we love the garden we would want one in both properties.


The only disadvantage is that life is just a little bit more complicated. I have commitments in two places and along with that comes a little more hassle in keeping on top of things, such as bills, bank accounts, tax declarations, etc.

A word about this tax stuff. I don't know what the CGT and IHT implications of living in France are because I don't want to live there. I do know about the tax situation in the Middle East - it's FANTASTIC - but I don't want to live there either (I used to live there). I know about Spain's tax situation and I want to live there. I am willing to accept the applicable Spanish taxes in return for being able to call Spain home (part time).

It's that simple when it comes to tax - research, decide.

I chose the two apartment option because I couldn't be bothered with phone calls from the neighbours in the UK when a fence blows down or a drain gets blocked. Leaving a house empty in the UK was like being a landlord (stuff goes wrong) without the benefit of income. And you have security concerns - lock and leave is preferable for me.

If you like gardening what about an allotment, they have those in Spain. Worth considering maybe as many expats in Spain seem to start in villas and end-up in apartments when they get a bit older.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

ABERAFON said:


> Having come across stories about all of the problems for ex pats now in Spain I asking members in Spain for their experiences and asking would they say 'do it or stay in the UK ?. We can get by in Spanish and will polish up our language skills. :fingerscrossed:


We planned everything thoroughly and moved 1st November 2008. We won't be returning to UK except maybe for a short trip if my sister pre-deceases me. Everything here is better, even the health care. There are a few items that I can't buy here but can easily get sent from UK or USA. Is our house worth less now than when we bought it? Maybe but we have no intention of trying to sell it so it doesn't matter. The cost of living here is way cheaper and with so much fresh fruit and veg plus other good quality foods that aren't full of additives or hormones, our health is so much better.

In our experience many of those who have gone back should never have come to Spain in the first place. A lot of them came with nothing, no proper preparation, no job, no income, no hope. It just looked good on "A place in the sun" plus a couple of fortnight's holiday on the CdS "where there was that nice bar and people spoke to us in English..." And that was about the limit of their research. Of course, the real crippler for many was when they changed the satellite and people could no longer get Corrie or 'Enders - you laugh but that would typify the nature of many of the 'came, saw, went back again' crowd.


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

We have a house in the Canary Islands and one in Prague but I am mid 40's in fact 44 today  As we have 3 young kids our situation is different than the OP but nevertheless having the choice of both places is something that increases our quality of life no end.

I was speaking to my mum a few months back and asked her if she regrets anything and she said not buying something and travelling more. My parents always talked about it but never did even though they have wads of cash. Now they are oldie mouldies and have no choice.

I saw another survey of Swedes or Danes the other day, apparently 65% of people surveyed would want a second home, the top destination being Spain but only 2% ever achieve it.

Having a second home here is the best move I have made for a long time.


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks to everyone that has responded to my post, not only have all the responses been very useful to us in helping us to start to make the decision, but I have learned so much about how things are in Spain now for both residents and non residents.

Thank you all for taking the time to express your views and offer us advice.


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