# Why Spain???



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm having one of my "thoughtful" moments!! (scary)

Why is it people gravitate to Spain?? The sunshine? the memories of carefree holidays? the atmosphere? the space? the people? or the most popular one is "we're fed up with the UK"

It does seem that many, many people who come onto the forum with their dream of "living in the sun" think that it is the answer! But it is a dream and as such, isnt real!! A holiday is nothing like living here!

Spain is a truly lovely place to live and to be. BUT, it isnt an easy place to live and it isnt a cheap place. There is mass unemployment, millions of half built or empty properties, poverty, crime, drugs, a black economy and a government who seems to be trying to be all things to all men (and the EU) and possibly failing (Sorry, I dont do politics)

To live in Spain, you need an income cos there is no social security, child allowance, unemployment benefit, free healthcare, family credit, housing benefit etc as there is in the UK. Yes, there are people here who "duck and dive" and live from hand to mouth, but that isnt easy and its dog eat dog in that environment, and dont forget, there is nothing and nowhere to fall back on when there is no money - I doubt that anyone would even be prepared to pay for your flight home if you fail. So no, Spain isnt as easy to live in as the UK and of course the systems here are complicated - even getting the infamous NIE number is a trial, especially if you are new and dont understand the way things are here. then if you are lucky enough to get proper work here you'll need to get a social security number (not easy), or if you want to start your own business theres the hurdles with going autonomo and having to pay the 250€ fee each month. 

To buy a car and the rules of car tax, ITV/MoT are different and bringing your UK car here is complicated unless you drive illegally and dont bother to matriculate it and hope you dont get caught or kill anyone in it. Alot of expats do and for some strange reason think its ok - altho they'd be the first to berate someone doing that in the UK! But the authorities here are clamping down big time on British car drivers - they are seen at our international school most mornings - cos why would a tourist be taking their kids to school in Spain?????

To actually live here is probably a bit cheaper than the UK, rent is cheaper without a doubt, electricity is about the same, food etc is maybe a bit cheaper, petrol, booze and ciggies are cheaper, elctronics and cars are dearer. So thats a plus, altho without an income, taking out the various benefits you'd get in the UK, its possibly a break even scenario.


I'm not being negative. I'm trying to say that Spain IS a great place to live, BUT, it is not easier than the UK, it is not the cheap, easy option for those who are fed up with the UK. The days of coming here to escape the nanny state back there are gone. The nanny state is claustrophobic and OTT, but its nanny who is always there when things go wrong and she aint in Spain! Dont come here simply cos you want to escape that and think life is easier here - especially if what you have back there is solid and secure!

So the decision to move to Spain has to be that you want to live here and not just a carefree place in the sun. You are prepared for the differences and to be self reliant and informed. That you know that you're not coming here to live the easy life, sitting on a terrace is the sunshine, with a glass of vino watching the kids frolicking in the pool. You're coming here because you have a plan and a well thought out budget, that you are prepared for the hard work and know where to go and how to sort things out here.

I'll shut up now

Jo xxxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Good stuff Jojo.

Why Spain? Top of my list is the people. I have been to many countries all round the world and the only places I really felt I could happily fit in and live the sort of life I wanted were the West of Ireland and Southwest Andalucia, So I chose the place with the better weather.


----------



## JeanP (Sep 11, 2010)

Well, it is not the weather for me, SA has fantastic weather, not people, I have great friends....my reason was pretty simple really. Culture.

I have travelled to many places, experienced many different cultures and customs but none intrigued me more than the Spanish. Love the culture, even the manana attitude


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

A very thoughtful and perceptive post, Jo.
Obviously, people come here for many different reasons. 
I think that for many people, Spain is seen as 'safe', not too foreign. If your experiences of Spain have been package holidays especially then you could easily be mislead into thinking that life here would be not that much different from life in Bognor, Bradford or Bournemouth.
Hence perhaps the many posts from wannabe immigrants along the 'living in Spain is our dream, can't speak Spanish, will do anything' variety.
As you rightly point out, life ain't like that.
Why did we come here?
Well, I think OH always wanted to settle in Spain for a few years.I didn't, I'd always wanted to live in Central or Eastern Europe. As a vegetarian, life in Prague wasn't easy for OH and she began to fade away.
The winters were real brass monkeys there, often snow from November to April and temperatures of minus twenty -five C at times.
I have to confess that we are both a trifle materialistic in that we like the availability of 'good' shops, restaurants etc. within easy reach if not on our doorstep where we like it to be very tranquil. Hence our settling in this quiet neck of the woods but near to the fleshpots of Puerto Banus etc.
Another reason was that our family has property here and visits very frequently.
So we upped and offed.
A few friends raised their eyebrows when I said we were moving to the CDS and tbh I wasn't sure I'd like it as I 'm more 'Central European' inclined.
But I feel so comfortable here, we've made loads of friends of all nationalities and have involved ourselves in community life.
There must be evil Spaniards, of course...but we've yet to come across one.
So Viva Espana......but don't let's run down the UK which is still a pretty good place to live.


----------



## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm having one of my "thoughtful" moments!! (scary)
> 
> ......To live in Spain, you need an income cos there is no social security, child allowance, unemployment benefit, free healthcare, family credit, housing benefit etc as there is in the UK. Yes, there are people here who "duck and dive" and live from hand to mouth, but that isnt easy and its dog eat dog in that environment, and dont forget, there is nothing and nowhere to fall back on when there is no money - I doubt that anyone would even be prepared to pay for your flight home if you fail. So no, Spain isnt as easy to live in as the UK and of course the systems here are complicated - even getting the infamous NIE number is a trial, especially if you are new and dont understand the way things are here. then if you are lucky enough to get proper work here you'll need to get a social security number (not easy), or if you want to start your own business theres the hurdles with going autonomo and having to pay the 250€ fee each month......
> 
> Jo xxxx


Whilst I agree with the sentiment of the post JoJo, I do wonder at how much these posts reflect a like for like comparison as otherwise, who gets something for nothing when they arrive in another country?

If a Spaniard goes to live in the UK and immediately "goes on the social", I believe they'd get pretty swift reality checks wouldn't they? In fact, would they even get a doctor immediately?

Your points are all valid, but not really relevent within the "different", as you say, Spanish system. For example. "No child benefit".... not entirely true. No, there isn't a direct payment to the mother of a certain amount every month. But allowances through the tax system are large enough to more than make up for it. In Spain, a person with 3 kids can earn well over a 1000 per month before paying any tax. Not so in the UK.... anymore - in fact, since child allowance came in, a maried guy with 4 kids pays exactly the same tax as a single man on the same amount. So, the point of your comment is right, if you don't have any earnings of any sort, there is no "child allowance", but if you do have earnings, there are in fact quite generous ones - though not paid in the same way as the UK.

Also, there is Unemployment benefit -in fact, some argue that it's way too generous. People, in the good times, used to take 6 months or even a year off, if they got on well with their boss, because benefit payment is so high that you can virtually work 3 years on and half off, then just get another job. The bad news is that it has to build up and risking that, today, is a bad idea as the jobs aren't around any more. Many have said and I agree, a payment similar to the UK of far less for far longer would be of much higher benefit to the country.

Also there is a major benefit which so far as I know, doesn't exist in the UK. Anyone who is made redundent at or after age 52, gets what in effect is a half pension for life or until they get a job up to retirement age. This is based on the last 6 years of earnings. Clearly this is, once again, for people within the system who loose their job.

The above two scenarios are both for people who are in the system and end up loosing their job. Healthcare depends where in Spain you live. In some Autonomies you only have to be empadronado to get it free, in others, you only get it if you earn under a certain amount of money (sin recursos does not mean homeless and broke). Either way, given the cost of private medical insurance in Spain, if you can't afford a private policy, chances are your income is low enough to get Social Security cover under the Sin Recursos laws.

Getting an SS number is as easy as going to the nearest SS office, showing them your NIE and getting a number assigned to you. Doesn't mean you're entitled to anything, but getting the Association Number, in my experience, can't be much easier.

Getting a NIE, for EU citizens, is a bit of slow beurocracy I admit, but recently improved a lot via the move to the National Police Provincial offices from the previously slow Foreign offices... now left for non EU people. 

Last but not least. The famous 250€ autonomo fee. I was self employed in the UK, and I wish it was as little as 250€ per month including my pension payments.
Be interesting to know how much your OH (I assume he's working under Ltd status) pays accountant fees, companies house, VAT etc., etc. Given the closure of Schedule D for all, unless you're a plumber or electrician working for the general public, being self employed in the UK ain't cheap either.

One thing I am totally with you on. The fact that the autonomo route is ALL there is in Spain. No limits for VAT registration, no way to clean someone's garden or pool once a fortnight and other minor earners without being "fully" in the system. But then, how are those jobs done in the UK? - No income tax, no VAT, no money back, no guarantee......

... and those folk are on the rock and roll as well, and on dissability and on housing etc., etc.... for now. I think Mr Cameron has other ideas!

Xose


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I guess my thoughts were directed at those who "stare" longingly at Spain with rose coloured specs on and think coming here is the answer, like a visitor I've recently had here. He initially thought he could get a cheap property, do a bit of "this and that" to make money and spend the rest of the time living as if he were on holiday - easy!! 

Yes, the spanish and those who are in the system here are covered - well just!!! But for those who are thinking of just coming over for an easy life - none of it is available!! And thats my point. Its a serious move, that needs serious and careful planning. Its not something you do cos you're fed up with the UK and its not an easy transition

Jo xxx


----------



## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Cos its closer to the UK than Australia


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

djfwells said:


> Cos its closer to the UK than Australia


or in my case cos it's almost as far away from Aus as the UK is


----------



## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Just for the record I lived and worked in the UK for a few years. I worked hard, two jobs. I paid my duties, I paid my dues, I paid council taxes, work taxes, VAT's, Tv taxes, and lots of different taxing- things. 
I found paper work just as annoying as anywhere else.

The Driving Code is much much much easier than in Spain, so I did my test there ,and I passed. I had never managed to pass in Spain after several attempts. 

My flat got mugged. Twice. Police didn't help, but they gave us some nice looking brouchures 

Then I got sick one day and went to get emergency treatment, but after severa hours waiting they were no doctors available, so I went back home. THe thirthy or so people that required emergency treatment were still waiting when I left. 

It pissed down all the bloody time. The metro was never on time. Same for the bus service. Traffic was nightmarish. Petrol too expensive, and I didn't know how to pump it myself. 

My best friend was from Seychelles. She was fun and we are still very good friends, but god, she was lazy. Her husband was a proper loser, and earnt his living out of selling weed. One day she got pregnat and they got a free house in Hounslow. How cool is that? Now I can see where my taxes were going. 

I was relieved when we left, we moved from London to Qatar at the time and I understand why people want to get away from working their butts off just for paying other peoples lazyness. 
I would go back , should we be in a situation that we desperately need to find a job.

Why Spain. I suppose the weather is nice, and it is not so foreing as Egypt, or Tailand or Fiji. It's a short flight from other european destination. It's not cheap, but people don't rip you off on a daily basis, like in other european resorts . It has nice landscapes. I don't like to say about the people , cos I always encountered friendly people everywhere I have been, probably friendlier than in Spain, but we aren't particularly agresive. 

But there is no jobs.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sonrisa said:


> Just for the record I lived and worked in the UK for a few years. I worked hard, two jobs. I paid my duties, I paid my dues, I paid council taxes, work taxes, VAT's, Tv taxes, and lots of different taxing- things.
> I found paper work just as annoying as anywhere else.
> 
> The Driving Code is much much much easier than in Spain, so I did my test there ,and I passed. I had never managed to pass in Spain after several attempts.
> ...


Its great to hear the "other side"!! Somone from Spain moving to the UK!!

Thanks 

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I can't understand why people think getting a NIE is so complicated?
It took us about an hour in all. We started speaking in Spanish but the clerk/official we were dealing with spoke fluent English.
People who came with gestors or whatever got the same treatment we did - no queue-jumping.
Xose is quite right about autonomo. In our UK household I was on the public payroll, OH had own businesses which required accountants, various licences, employing clerical staff to deal with wages, VAT, general correspondence etc. And then the various taxes....
Autonomo is a burden for smaller enterprises, agreed, but working for one's self or owning a business isn't all sunshine and smiles.
As OH used to bemoan...you get taxed on all the things you do to make a profit and then you get taxed on your profit....
Whereas my salary was paid into the bank each month, one hundred days allowed per annum paid sick leave and other benefits.


----------



## emma wilson75 (May 27, 2011)

jojo said:


> I guess my thoughts were directed at those who "stare" longingly at Spain with rose coloured specs on and think coming here is the answer, like a visitor I've recently had here. He initially thought he could get a cheap property, do a bit of "this and that" to make money and spend the rest of the time living as if he were on holiday - easy!!
> 
> Yes, the spanish and those who are in the system here are covered - well just!!! But for those who are thinking of just coming over for an easy life - none of it is available!! And thats my point. Its a serious move, that needs serious and careful planning. Its not something you do cos you're fed up with the UK and its not an easy transition
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo you are so spot on :clap2: even tho im a newbie on here lol you certainly do have to more than your homwwork well before you move over to Spain or any country for that matter ! We have been wanting to move over for many year............ but it's all about timing too what works for you and your family ! We feel now that in 2 years we will be ready to make the transistion, Hubby has a good well established buisness here in the Uk, But most impotantly we like the lifestyle Spain can offer you not just the "weather" but the people too.
But you have to be prepared to work at it together as a family and make sure it's what you all want  
x x


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I can't understand why people think getting a NIE is so complicated?
> It took us about an hour in all. We started speaking in Spanish but the clerk/official we were dealing with spoke fluent English.
> People who came with gestors or whatever got the same treatment we did - no queue-jumping.
> Xose is quite right about autonomo. In our UK household I was on the public payroll, OH had own businesses which required accountants, various licences, employing clerical staff to deal with wages, VAT, general correspondence etc. And then the various taxes....
> ...


Its certainly easier these days - well quicker. Its just one of many hurdles involved in moving over here and is the most important. As for autonomo, no its probably no more difficult than being self employed in the UK - except many, many people seem to think that you dont need to bother in Spain - cos Spain is so laid back! My point is that Spain ISNT this place where you can come to escape the red tape and rules of other countries ad everything is easy! If you dont speak the language and dont do your homework everything is twice as hard


I guess my recent visitor spurred me to write this thread. He is now desperate to come and live here cos he liked it. He cant see why he cant just come over, get a part time job and just enjoy life. He kept commenting on how much easier and better everything was here?!? 

Jo xxx


----------



## emma wilson75 (May 27, 2011)

jojo said:


> Its certainly easier these days - well quicker. Its just one of many hurdles involved in moving over here and is the most important. As for autonomo, no its probably no more difficult than being self employed in the UK - except many, many people seem to think that you dont need to bother in Spain - cos Spain is so laid back! My point is that Spain ISNT this place where you can come to escape the red tape and rules of other countries ad everything is easy! If you dont speak the language and dont do your homework everything is twice as hard
> 
> 
> I guess my recent visitor spurred me to write this thread. He is now desperate to come and live here cos he liked it. He cant see why he cant just come over, get a part time job and just enjoy life. He kept commenting on how much easier and better everything was here?!?
> ...


I think jo he may find out the hard way  all you can do as advice people with the knowlage you and other peple had and pass on.
x x


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> I guess my recent visitor spurred me to write this thread. He is now desperate to come and live here cos he liked it. He cant see why he cant just come over, get a part time job and just enjoy life. He kept commenting on how much easier and better everything was here?!?
> 
> Jo xxx


I wouldnt say life here is easier. It can be quite stressful. All the ways I did things in the UK have gone out of the window. Things are fine, as long as things are fine .... but when a problem arises then it can get difficult and you sometimes wonder what you are doing here.

Example: I just took my car in to the garage because the starter motor was a bit iffy, and I cant afford it to go on me because I have a long journey soon.

It was in the garage for two days whilst they tried to source the part. Had I been in the UK I would have sourced it myself. When I collected the car, the bill was €745.00. €525 for a Suzuki starter motor. I can see them on ebay for £75. So because it's Spain and things are not always so straight forward, I put power into someone elses hands and paid the price.

If you're bought up in the UK, then you know all the ins and outs. You know how to do things for the best, where to go for deals. When you decide to live in another country then it's not always so simple


----------



## donz (May 5, 2010)

I know what you're saying Sonrisa

I am from the UK and now live in Spain, own my property and run my own business.

I work from about 7:30am to approx 10pm generally with a bit of time off in between but this is usually spent updating the website/paperwork!

In the UK I worked 2 jobs - a main 9-5 (which generally was longer as I had a Blackberry for work and we all know that means you never clock off!) and we were also building up our own business there at the time

We came here to open a 2nd branch of our business but we chose Spain because a) the weather - I can't stand the crap weather of the UK and suffer from S.A.D 
b) family are here and the OH's family are Spanish
c) the opportunity for our business to flourish in the coming years

I can sympathise with the feeling of working your butt off, paying your dues, I even had private healthcare, dental care etc etc ON TOP of paying my full NI yet every other ****** can sponge off the state (I know that's a very 'wide' comment but it did hack me right off) and often get more rights than those that pay! I hated the fact that I still paid full rate of council tax despite also paying for ground maintenance which included my rubbish collection - I didn't get a discount from my council tax for that...no!

I would love to see a system in place for things such as where you get a discount from your NI when you have (and use) private healthcare.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate there are those that genuinely need the states support and my mum certainly wouldn't have been able to raise me on her own if there hadn't been the support at the time (she did work but didn't earn enough so had a supplement) BUT those that cheat the system just to get a cheap flat or can't be arsed to work hard to earn their money I do not have the time for.

I came to Spain to do a job I love in a culture who are very accepting (and that is not all of Spain I hasten to add!!) and where the weather makes the mood much better.

I would definitely say to anybody that they need at least 1 years money behind them AND a job to go to. If you're a tradesman great but you have to build a reputation. Nothing happens here without recommendation as a general rule. Ad's are great but 90% is by word of mouth.

I do think the 'system' isn't easy - but there are people to help if you can pay for the help.

For me it's the best thing I ever did. I live out in the campo near a Spanish village and I'm picking my Spanish up slowly but the locals are very forgiving and patient which makes it a lot easier to want to learn. 

I don't miss anything about the UK really!


----------



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

You said it all Jo .... In a nutshell!!


----------



## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

We have lived here for 7 years. Self employed at first (working on the Internet) but have now retired.

When my niece visited us recently she asked whether living in Spain seemed like a permanent holiday. 

The way I explained it to her was that the day to day things you have to do (shopping, cooking, washing, ironing, cleaning etc) are the same wherever you live but recreation time is far better here in Spain.

In the UK when we were not working, about the only options were going out for a meal or to the pub. It was often too cold to want to leave the house to go anywhere. I suffered from SAD and got very depressed in the winter in the UK.

Here in Spain there seem to be so many more options (probably because of the better weather). We go for a walk along the paseo and meet with friends for a coffee or glass of wine. We take a drive into the mountains and have a wonderful lunch meeting the locals. We can visit Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Jerez, Valencia etc etc within a day's drive. Our Spanish neighbours are so friendly and welcoming and include us in the local celebrations.

It is not perfect however. Nothing ever is. It took quite a while to adjust to the differences and bureaucracy here. The heat in July and August can be as much of a problem as the cold in January and February in the UK.

Would we change? Not by choice. Unfortunately we may be forced to return to the UK due to medical and mobility issues. If we do I will be extremely sad to leave my adopted home here in Spain.


----------



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Well at least u have had 7 happy years in Spain, I've had 24, the the last 3 -4 have not been great! However Spain is a lovely country, my daughter was born in Spain, I'm happy to move on & pat my self on the back with great memories!!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> I wouldnt say life here is easier. It can be quite stressful. All the ways I did things in the UK have gone out of the window. Things are fine, as long as things are fine .... but when a problem arises then it can get difficult and you sometimes wonder what you are doing here.
> 
> Example: I just took my car in to the garage because the starter motor was a bit iffy, and I cant afford it to go on me because I have a long journey soon.
> 
> ...


Funny, but we've found things like car, boiler and washing machine repairs are much simpler to arrange here. E,g, the electric motor on the rear window was broken; in the UK the Vauxhall garage quoted 300 pounds but the mechanic in the village where we live now sourced and fitted it for €120. The broken knob on our ancient washing machine was fixed by adapting one for a different model - total cost 25€. 

Maybe it's because we are in a village where everyone knows each other, but things do seem to get done with the minimum of fuss and expense - just send a text to Manolo, Juan or Paco and it's usually sorted the same day. A far cry from trying to get through to the British Gas service department two days before Christmas ....


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Funny, but we've found things like car, boiler and washing machine repairs are much simpler to arrange here. E,g, the electric motor on the rear window was broken; in the UK the Vauxhall garage quoted 300 pounds but the mechanic in the village where we live now sourced and fitted it for €120. The broken knob on our ancient washing machine was fixed by adapting one for a different model - total cost 25€.
> 
> Maybe it's because we are in a village where everyone knows each other, but things do seem to get done with the minimum of fuss and expense - just send a text to Manolo, Juan or Paco and it's usually sorted the same day. A far cry from trying to get through to the British Gas service department two days before Christmas ....



Village living a different way of living thats all!! In the UK, I used to know chaps "up the road" who would pop in an hour or so after a phone call or text and mend my car, washing machine etc. cheaply, but thats small town living and you get that anywhere in the world I guess.

I live on the edge of a big town in Spain, you can still find the little local chaps who'll do repairs etc. But you also have the corporate companies who are "the right" people to use and charge accordingly!? Its all about choices I guess and generally with the "big" companies you have the support, security and cover of guarantees etc


Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Village living a different way of living thats all!! In the UK, I used to know chaps "up the road" who would pop in an hour or so after a phone call or text and mend my car, washing machine etc. cheaply, but thats small town living and you get that anywhere in the world I guess.
> 
> I live on the edge of a big town in Spain, you can still find the little local chaps who'll do repairs etc. But you also have the corporate companies who are "the right" people to use and charge accordingly!? Its all about choices I guess and generally with the "big" companies you have the support, security and cover of guarantees etc
> 
> ...


Of course, and that's why I prefer village life. But I disagree that your rights are better protected with a big company. With the little guy, whose livelihood depends on his reputation locally, you are far more likely to get good service. With the big corporations your problems are just a drop in their vast bureaucratic ocean. Our friend phoned Telefonica five times to arrange for his unwanted TV box to be collected, then discovered they had taken €200 from his bank account because he hadn't returned it!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Of course, and that's why I prefer village life. But I disagree that your rights are better protected with a big company. With the little guy, whose livelihood depends on his reputation locally, you are far more likely to get good service. With the big corporations your problems are just a drop in their vast bureaucratic ocean. Our friend phoned Telefonica five times to arrange for his unwanted TV box to be collected, then discovered they had taken €200 from his bank account because he hadn't returned it!



I agree with you on that, you just become a statistic!!! and of course in the UK, anyone who is allowed near a gas boiler has to have the necessary paperwork (corgi???), so immediately you're having to use a "reputable" company and the repairer has to pay for the privilege of being a registered repairer which he has to pass on to his clients..... But for everything else, I always used the local chap down the road who knew me and my appliances, in fact I could leave the door key under the mat and he'd let himself in while I was out. I think that kind of local service is dying out tho - simply cos of the "big boys" In the UK and in Spain. Yes its a shame!

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Village living a different way of living thats all!! In the UK, I used to know chaps "up the road" who would pop in an hour or so after a phone call or text and mend my car, washing machine etc. cheaply, but thats small town living and you get that anywhere in the world I guess.
> 
> I live on the edge of a big town in Spain, you can still find the little local chaps who'll do repairs etc. But you also have the corporate companies who are "the right" people to use and charge accordingly!? Its all about choices I guess and generally with the "big" companies you have the support, security and cover of guarantees etc
> 
> ...


Our village (1306 inhabitants according to the local ayto register) has few 'little chaps', sadly. We have one garage and having been in the trade I know that we pay well over the odds for parts (as Stravinsky said) although labour is fairly cheap.
Wherever you live, the longer you are there the more you get to know about the 'right' people for whatever job needs doing.
That's true whichever country you live in.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Our village (1306 inhabitants according to the local ayto register) has few 'little chaps', sadly. We have one garage and having been in the trade I know that we pay well over the odds for parts (as Stravinsky said) although labour is fairly cheap.
> Wherever you live, the longer you are there the more you get to know about the 'right' people for whatever job needs doing.
> That's true whichever country you live in.


Very true. A new "guiri" to the village may well be seen as a target for overcharging - certainly to begin with

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Very true. A new "guiri" to the village may well be seen as a target for overcharging - certainly to begin with
> 
> Jo xxx


I'm sure that happens - and lots of guiris are happy to pay because it's still cheaper than they are used to.

One of the first people we became friendly with here was the woman who runs the _ferreteria_. Alll the local tradesmen are terrified of her, and we know that if we mention that she recommended them, we'll get a good deal!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I'm sure that happens - and lots of guiris are happy to pay because it's still cheaper than they are used to.
> 
> One of the first people we became friendly with here was the woman who runs the _ferreteria_. Alll the local tradesmen are terrified of her, and we know that if we mention that she recommended them, we'll get a good deal!


Our ferreteria is run by a really helpful, honest chap. You could do all your day-to-day shopping there even fruit and veg as local farmers bring in baskets of produce for sale outside.
Once I went to buy something, preferring to buy local wherever possible, and found it more expensive than in our nearest town. He immediately asked where I'd seen the item and said he'd contact their suppliers with a view to getting a better deal himself.
He has also taught me the Spanish for plug, fuse wire, extendable ladder, extension leads and other similar invaluable words and expressions.


----------



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Friendly man your DIY store owner, it's nice to hear people still find time to help others learn basic Spanish, even if it is words like u mention x


----------



## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

For me it was the best option second to returning to the Middle East. Because in the Middle East the job offers with a legal working permit included are very hard to find right now, and because I really disliked the Czech Republic where I was before moving here, I figured Spain was the best alternative I had. I would have prefered to return to Turkey, and I'd still move in a second if the chance was offered. But within the EU (which, despite all negatives, does come with the positive of moving around freely without working permit headaches) I figured Spain would be a welcome change. Another reason for coming here was the arts scene, I knew Barcelona was an artistic city, and that also was a reason for coming here. As an aspiring artist, it makes sense to go where there are opportunities to perform. 


One thing about the opening post: free healthcare is existing here in Catalonia. Maybe this differs from region to region, but when I go to the doctor it is totally free. Medication is about 20x cheaper than what I paid in the UK and in Belgium. The hospital's urgencia unit is totally free and very well organised with very friendly staff.

Maybe this is the type of thing that varies from area to area but the Catalan healthcare is actually very good... and, with a few exceptions for more special requests, it is indeed free.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gerrit said:


> For me it was the best option second to returning to the Middle East. Because in the Middle East the job offers with a legal working permit included are very hard to find right now, and because I really disliked the Czech Republic where I was before moving here, I figured Spain was the best alternative I had. I would have prefered to return to Turkey, and I'd still move in a second if the chance was offered. But within the EU (which, despite all negatives, does come with the positive of moving around freely without working permit headaches) I figured Spain would be a welcome change. Another reason for coming here was the arts scene, I knew Barcelona was an artistic city, and that also was a reason for coming here. As an aspiring artist, it makes sense to go where there are opportunities to perform.
> 
> 
> One thing about the opening post: free healthcare is existing here in Catalonia. Maybe this differs from region to region, but when I go to the doctor it is totally free. Medication is about 20x cheaper than what I paid in the UK and in Belgium. The hospital's urgencia unit is totally free and very well organised with very friendly staff.
> ...



Hi Gerrit, long time no posts!!
Nice to see you back.


----------



## arcobaleno (Jun 12, 2011)

*healthcare and crime*

Hello JOJO,
why are yoy saying that there is no free halthcare? Isn't the healthcare system socialized like in the other european countries?
Is also the crime so bad over there?

We are considering moving to the Costa Blanca so..


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

arcobaleno said:


> Hello JOJO,
> why are yoy saying that there is no free halthcare? Isn't the healthcare system socialized like in the other european countries?
> Is also the crime so bad over there?
> 
> We are considering moving to the Costa Blanca so..


the healthcare system in Spain is contribution based, rather than residence based

simply put - if you don't pay in - you can't take out


that is slightly over-simplifying, but is essentially how the system works


----------



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Hi,
Medical is u pay in u get free medical , also worth getting the European medical card for travelers!! However if one is smart & your face fits you May get a free med card!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

agua642 said:


> Hi,
> However if one is smart & your face fits you May get a free med card!!


Bit too cryptic for me. Can you spell it out please?


----------



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

It's not what you know it's who you know


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

agua642 said:


> It's not what you know it's who you know


That, to my way of thinking, is NOTmaking things clear.

Are you saying you can cheat the system and get a medical card when you don't pay social security?

Spit it out or spell it out!


----------



## arcobaleno (Jun 12, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> the healthcare system in Spain is contribution based, rather than residence based
> 
> simply put - if you don't pay in - you can't take out
> 
> ...


I am well aware of the fact that you need to pay a contribution to get medical, this is going on in every country except for the USA where you buy your own private insurance. I don't think even exist a totally free healthcare, so what you mean in "not residence based" is that you don't need to have residence in Spain to qualify for healthcare but just pay a contribution?


----------



## Morten (Apr 20, 2011)

arcobaleno said:


> I am well aware of the fact that you need to pay a contribution to get medical, this is going on in every country except for the USA where you buy your own private insurance. I don't think even exist a totally free healthcare, so what you mean in "not residence based" is that you don't need to have residence in Spain to qualify for healthcare but just pay a contribution?


Youre right, healthcare is never truly free. However in northern europe it is in fact "residence based" ... in Scandinavia etc you get your residency and it comes with "free" access to any form of healthcare you might need. In theory you could get residency monday and go for a free heart-transplant tuesday. Obviously, youre probably paying twice for it upthere though as its grabbed via extremely high taxes instead.

But yes, if you pay the social contribution youre covered for healthcare - and spanish healthcare is rated very high internationally. The contribution also goes to a state pension etc. However, personally I´ve chosen to take out a private healthcare insurance alongside the social contribution. Its simply very cheap and certainly for a start was very convenient as I could choose a private english doctor just down the road. It might seem like overkill with double coverage, but I keep it as I have good faith in that doctor, if anything should happen theres a private hospital just down the road towards Denia and it pays a proportion of dentist bills too - and the expense is a very modest 65euros a month or so for all of it.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

arcobaleno said:


> I am well aware of the fact that you need to pay a contribution to get medical, this is going on in every country except for the USA where you buy your own private insurance. I don't think even exist a totally free healthcare, so what you mean in "not residence based" is that you don't need to have residence in Spain to qualify for healthcare but just pay a contribution?


sort of & sort of not

if you live in the UK for example you will get free healthcare if you are legally entitled to live there, _even if you don't work, pay tax or national insurance_

if you live in Spain, _even if you are legally entitled to live here_, unless you pay national insurance, you aren't going to be able to use the healthcare system & will have to have private insurance


as I said before, that is slightly over-simplified - but is essentially how the system works


----------

