# MexLaw legal services.



## gringotim

Anyone familiar with, or ever dealt with MexLaw legal services? Or more specifically, their office in Nuevo Vallarta. We are looking for a legal company to handle the possible purchase of a "for sale by owner" condo in Puerto Vallarta, and this is one company we heard of. Gracias.


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## circle110

gringotim said:


> Anyone familiar with, or ever dealt with MexLaw legal services? Or more specifically, their office in Nuevo Vallarta. We are looking for a legal company to handle the possible purchase of a "for sale by owner" condo in Puerto Vallarta, and this is one company we heard of. Gracias.


Just remember, you need a notario, not a lawyer, for anything involving real estate in Mexico. MexLaw may or may not have notarios on staff. Since you are the buyer, you get to select the notario that handles the transaction and you will work with him/her (along with the seller) to complete the transaction. If any lawyers tell you that they need to be involved, tell them to go find an ambulance to chase.


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## Isla Verde

circle110 said:


> Just remember, you need a notario, not a lawyer, for anything involving real estate in Mexico. MexLaw may or may not have notarios on staff. Since you are the buyer, you get to select the notario that handles the transaction and you will work with him/her (along with the seller) to complete the transaction. If any lawyers tell you that they need to be involved, tell them to go find an ambulance to chase.


A "notario" is a lawyer, one who specializes in transactions, such as purchases of real estate.


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## gringotim

circle110 said:


> ...Just remember, you need a notario, not a lawyer,.....


Yup, was aware of that The estimate they sent included "Notary" Fee's of US$2420.00 inc. 16% IVA tax, so assume they have a notary. Just don't know them from a hole in the ground, are they reputable? are they going to take my money and run to the border? Their website says they have Mexican attorneys and Canadian and American lawyers, but that doesn't translate in to whether they are good at what they do or can be trusted :noidea: Gracias


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## eastwind

A "notario" is a lawyer, but an "abogado" is not a "notario". 

Perusal of their website indicates MexLaw is not a notario. They do not do the closing, the notario does. Their services include going with you to the notario's office for the closing. They can explain the process to you ahead of time, do some due dilligence for you on your behalf, and represent you to the notario. 

I think usually the notario does the escrow, unless the escrow is done in the US (as is sometimes done for dollar transactions where one US resident sells mexican property to another US person).
Anyway, I don't think you should have to trust MexLaw with a lot of money beyond whatever fee they ask for their time.

You need a notario. You don't need an Abogado. You can have an Abogado if you want to help you deal with the notario and advise you. MexLaw is going to be an abogado.

I'm not a lawyer of any kind, nor have I bought property in Mexico.


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## circle110

Isla Verde said:


> A "notario" is a lawyer, one who specializes in transactions, such as purchases of real estate.


Sort of. I guess you could view it as semantics, but I don't -- and I'll bet the notarios don't either. They are someone who did the basic licenciatura for law but went well beyond that and received special accreditation from the government to practice a very focused and critical subset of the law. 

I don't think any notario worth their salt would waste their time with generic legal matters that are left to the abogados.


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## circle110

eastwind said:


> A "notario" is a lawyer, but an "abogado" is not a "notario".


Not true. There are several licenciaturas that one can acquire that serve as a prerequisite for the additional studies required to become a notario.

Again, no notario would waste their time with the stuff that lawyers do.

A notario is not a specialized lawyer. A notario is a very focused, specialized practitioner of legal affairs that requires specific training and very different certification by the Mexican government. 

So:
A "notario" might or might not have once earned a licenciatura in law, but an "abogado" is not be a "notario".


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## circle110

gringotim said:


> Yup, was aware of that The estimate they sent included "Notary" Fee's of US$2420.00 inc. 16% IVA tax, so assume they have a notary. Just don't know them from a hole in the ground, are they reputable? are they going to take my money and run to the border? Their website says they have Mexican attorneys and Canadian and American lawyers, but that doesn't translate in to whether they are good at what they do or can be trusted :noidea: Gracias


I don't know that agency so I can't comment on their legitimacy. I hope someone can chime in that has first hand knowledge.

The notary fees are normally a percentage of the sale price and obviously we don't know the sale price of your property, so it's hard to say if that is a fair estimate. Maybe someone with more recent experience can advise on the common % charged? I bought 9 years ago so I have forgotten.

The notary fees should be almost everything they charge, probably adding some for administrative costs, but don't be paying extra for those lawyers! In a real estate transaction they aren't doing anything a good administrative assistant couldn't do.

** Although, a good administrative assistant is worth a lot! **


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## eastwind

I'm a little confused as to which half of my statement you're saying isn't true.
When Isla said the first half, you didn't say what she said was false, you said it was semantics. When I said the same thing you said it was false. 

Note that I _didn't_ write that a notario was an abogado, I used the english word lawyer very intentionally. Your point that the notario may not have gotten the licenciaturas to be an abogado seems to me to prove that they aren't abogados, but not that they aren't lawyers, using the english term in an intentionally non-specific way. I'll agree that's semantics.

If it's the second half of my statement that you say isn't true, what's the difference between the second half of my statement and what you meant by 'an "abogado" is not be a "notario"', which seems to be the same thing only with a typo.


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## AlanMexicali

Notario/a fee here is 4% of sale price as of this week per a meeting I attended with a friend who bought a condo here in SLP. I don´t know why a lawyer is needed in any real estate purchase in Mexico. I have never hear of this before in Mexico, only in Canada where a lawyer, not an escrow company which is required in the US [again no lawyer is required] ,is required.

Maybe Tim needs to investigate real estate sale in Mexico before paying a lawyer to advise him.

A Notario/a is legally libel for any screw ups they do in any transaction and can be fined, pay non collected taxes owed by miscalculations, etc., or even loose their charter which is usually inherited from a relative or friend. Each city or town has only a fixed amount or Notarias [Notario offices] allowed and are numbered, federal law. A Notario/a can´t simply decide to open another Notaria in some place like a lawyer can.


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## TundraGreen

gringotim said:


> Anyone familiar with, or ever dealt with MexLaw legal services? Or more specifically, their office in Nuevo Vallarta. We are looking for a legal company to handle the possible purchase of a "for sale by owner" condo in Puerto Vallarta, and this is one company we heard of. Gracias.


My take:

Lots of companies/people specialize in acting as intermediaries for people from north of the border. They take advantage of the fact that north-of-the-border types may not speak Spanish or may not understand the system or both. Their services are not necessary, but they may be helpful, particularly if they are honest and straightforward about what they are doing.

I know nothing about MexLaw, but as others have pointed out, the only "lawyer" needed to buy property in Mexico is the Notaria Publica that is hired by the buyer to handle the paper work. One does not need another lawyer to accompany them to the office of the Notaria Publica. 

And, incidentally, Notaria Publicas do not generally provide escrow service. They do not hold the money involved, they just prepare and file all the paperwork with the local government office. The transfer of money generally takes place directly between the seller and the buyer at the time that all the paperwork is signed by both parties.


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## citlali

The major difference between a lawyer and a notario

the notaria ( the office) is a charge from the State . The notario ( the man /woman) represents the state and is supposed to be impartial.. A notario works for the State not for the client.
A notario has a law degree , he is a lawyer but specializes in realestate , titles, wills and interprets the law in those matters There is a limited number of notarios and an illimited number of lawyers.

A lawyer works for you and cannot do the work a notario does. He can advise you on it but that is it.

Beware of MexLaw services.. some are good and some not. If you want advice or help on how to register for health services, immigration just simple stuff these people can be helpful if you do not speak Spanish.

If you want someone to represent your interests get a lawyer and be aware that there ae many incompetent and crooked lawyers, they come a dime a dozen so get recommendations...

For realestate dealing you have to go through a notario... You can get a lawyer to advise you but the notario is a type of title expert so all transactions go through him anyways.


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## AlanMexicali

citlali said:


> The major difference between a lawyer and a notario
> 
> the notaria ( the office) is a charge from the State . The notario ( the man /woman) represents the state and is supposed to be impartial.. A notario works for the State not for the client.
> A notario has a law degree , he is a lawyer but specializes in realestate , titles, wills and interprets the law in those matters There is a limited number of notarios and an illimited number of lawyers.
> .


A Noatario/a has a what the government calls a Patent from the state but does not "work" for the state but works for his clients, charges them a fee and is libel for any mistakes he or she makes.


"The Notarial Law is the set of doctrines and legal rules governing the organization of Notaries, the notary function and the formal theory of public instrument. 
The notary is an option under the executive, though he delegates to others, by providing patent Notary Public, who shall act within the competent judicial districts. Also the notary to perform their duties to the executive may propose the appointment of an attached Notary, who will serve in the protocol. 

Patent notary is for life, however, may be revoked or suspended if budgets in a law materialize. "

https://www.google.com.mx/?gws_rd=s...rtirse+en+notario+en+mexico&spf=1498325257467


http://www.google.com.mx/url?sa=t&r...no.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHtOF-hKYku_mEDoBTTsP5yYVYqEg


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## citlali

I do not know the terms in English, in France it is a charge or I guess a cargo.. They do not work for the State they are appointed by the State.

When I say they do not work for the clients , obviously the client pay them but they are to enact the law and not be biais.. like a lawyer would be..

It is a little difficult for me to explain but we have the same system in France so I am pretty familiar with what they will do and what they will not so... I think it is a little confusing to call them notaries since their work is very different that the work of what the notaries do in the States.


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## gringotim

AlanMexicali said:


> ....Maybe Tim needs to investigate real estate sale in Mexico before paying a lawyer to advise him....


Thats pretty much what I have been trying to do for quite a while now, hence all the questions. Its just hard to know what to believe when there are sometimes so many different answers to one question, and when one person gives one answer, then another contradicts that answer, it gets very confusing. .:noidea: 
I will try attach the estimate MexLaw sent in response to my asking what their charges would be if we had them handle our buying a condo for $220k USD from a private seller, thats not a "listed with an agent" sale. Maybe someone can decipher it to see if it sounds like normal charges or inflated or unwarranted charges etc. Gracias for all the comments. PS, Don't know about the client name on the estimate, maybe its just a generic name they use, cause it aint me


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## TundraGreen

gringotim said:


> Thats pretty much what I have been trying to do for quite a while now, hence all the questions. Its just hard to know what to believe when there are sometimes so many different answers to one question, and when one person gives one answer, then another contradicts that answer, it gets very confusing. .:noidea:
> I will try attach the estimate MexLaw sent in response to my asking what their charges would be if we had them handle our buying a condo for $220k USD from a private seller, thats not a "listed with an agent" sale. Maybe someone can decipher it to see if it sounds like normal charges or inflated or unwarranted charges etc. Gracias for all the comments. PS, Don't know about the client name on the estimate, maybe its just a generic name they use, cause it aint me


When I purchased I was not in a coastal or border zone so I didn't have the trust fees to deal with and cannot comment on them. The fees for the Notario Publico sound reasonable but I didn't pull out my paper work to compare. MexLaw is charging you $2000 usd just to talk to the Notario Publico for you. You could eliminate that fee just by hiring a Notario Publico directly yourself. From my perspective, dealing directly is not only cheaper but better because you are more involved in the process and learn from it. But that is a personal choice. 

When I purchased, my Spanish was pretty limited. I picked a Notario by getting recommendations, none of which panned out, and by walking into a few offices and picking the one that I felt comfortable talking to. They didn't speak English but they were willing to explain things repeatedly and deal with my language inabilities.


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## RVGRINGO

Tim,
A law firm cannot “handle your purchase of a condo“, and you would be just wasting your money to hire them. You could have them write an agreement to purchase, I suppose, but you must choose a notario to obtain federal permission for you to purchase the property, and then to effect the property search, preparation of deed, or trust if near the coast or border, officiate at the closing and then register the deed with the proper authorities.
Be very careful. Go to a notaria (office) and consult with them. Lawyers in Mexico may not be, or do, what you might expect, based upon your NoB experience. However, they will take your money, even if they cannot help, or even if they make mistakes......then needing more of your money to correct them....and on and on.......
See a Notario or even hire a real estate agency to act as a buyer‘s agent. Get one who knows the ropes, preferably by asking other home buyers in the area.
Your next, or maybe the first, challenge is to know exactly what you are getting into when buying a condominio in Mexico. That is often a scary proposition, for sure.


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## gringotim

TundraGreen said:


> ..... MexLaw is charging you $2000 usd just to talk to the Notario Publico for you. You could eliminate that fee just by hiring a Notario Publico directly yourself...


So if I understand you correctly, ""Everything"" on the estimate is the same as what a "Notario" will do, with the exception of the $2296.80 Mexlaw fee?. Mexlaw is just one of a few I found when I Googled, its not that I have chosen them or any other company, they just happened to send the estimate in reply to an email I sent with a few questions..


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## RVGRINGO

Tim: You seem to be having trouble understanding that you do not need anyone like Mexlaw to be involved in your transaction. Why do you think you do? Mexico does not operate on a legal system anything like the USA. Read our responses again; please. At this point, you do not “understand us correctly“ and seem ready to just throw away $2000 for no reason at all.


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## gringotim

RVGRINGO said:


> ...or even hire a real estate agency to act as a buyer‘s agent. .


That was actually one of our first thoughts, and we even asked the agent about doing that who showed us a few listed condos in PV, he is the owner of one of the top Real Estate Co. in PV He said his fee would be 4.64% of selling price, (his commission + IVA) to handle the sale on a private sale. That would be $10,000 US in addition to the approx 5% closing costs, which puts the condo out of our comfortable budget. The seller won't go any lower and/or pay the agents commission.


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## gringotim

RVGRINGO said:


> Tim: You seem to be having trouble understanding that you do not need anyone like Mexlaw to be involved in your transaction. Why do you think you do? l.


When I asked the question, I didn't know if I needed their services or not, that's why I was asking, If the consensus is that a Notario is all we need, then that answers my question. I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, you suggest maybe hiring a buyers agent, but when when I have asked if I should do that, others will say Why? its not needed. As I said previously, it gets confusing when there is more than one answer to a question.


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## horseshoe846

gringotim said:


> That was actually one of our first thoughts, and we even asked the agent about doing that who showed us a few listed condos in PV, he is the owner of one of the top Real Estate Co. in PV He said his fee would be 4.64% of selling price, (his commission + IVA) to handle the sale on a private sale. That would be $10,000 US in addition to the approx 5% closing costs, which puts the condo out of our comfortable budget. The seller won't go any lower and/or pay the agents commission.


Currently it is a 'buyer's market' in Mexico - I think you need to look around a little more. When we bought our house perhaps the agent's commission was built into the price - but it wasn't thrown in our face. The sellers came down nearly 20%. I also don't think we paid the notary anywhere near 4% to handle the closing. I do remember we were charged a rather steep fee by the state/city we live in. Fortunately it was the notary's lawyer who handled our closing who put us in touch with another lawyer. We sued to recoup some of those closing charges - and won. It probably amounted to 3-6 months living expenses !


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## AlanMexicali

horseshoe846 said:


> Currently it is a 'buyer's market' in Mexico - I think you need to look around a little more. When we bought our house perhaps the agent's commission was built into the price - but it wasn't thrown in our face. The sellers came down nearly 20%. I also don't think we paid the notary anywhere near 4% to handle the closing. I do remember we were charged a rather steep fee by the state/city we live in. Fortunately it was the notary's lawyer who handled our closing who put us in touch with another lawyer. We sued to recoup some of those closing charges - and won. It probably amounted to 3-6 months living expenses !


I used the word fee because someone else used it in their above post mine. What I really meant to say it is the total cost of buying the "departamento". All the things a non citizen needs including permission from SRE. There will a Noataria´s fee probably included in the statement when finished along with the itemized expenses. My same friend bought a house here in Dec. and it was 4% closing costs the same Notario charged him out the door.

A $220.000 USD "departamento" should cost about 4% of $220,000 USD = $8,800 USD if inland from the ocean and borders. With a "fidecomiso" I might add another $12,000 USD to total up to roughly $20,800 USD out the door plus the banks yearly fee to maintain the "fidecomiso". A very rought estimate.


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## AlanMexicali

gringotim said:


> When I asked the question, I didn't know if I needed their services or not, that's why I was asking, If the consensus is that a Notario is all we need, then that answers my question. I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, you suggest maybe hiring a buyers agent, but when when I have asked if I should do that, others will say Why? its not needed. As I said previously, it gets confusing when there is more than one answer to a question.


You don´t need a contract that is perfect. My friend bought a house here in SLP in Dec. by phoning the # on a sign on the house. Not a reality company but from the owners. You could scribble a sales contract on a serviette and the Notario/a will rewrite it to both the seller´s and buyer´s satisfaction as part of their service. When I sold and bought here I had a realtor. I signed 2X an exclusive 6 month contract to sell and gave the realtor a flat rate of 5% and if she wanted to split it with another realtor that was her business.


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## AlanMexicali

horseshoe846 said:


> . I also don't think we paid the notary anywhere near 4% to handle the closing. I do remember we were charged a rather steep fee by the state/city we live in.


I would expect your 10+ million peso house would not be 4% of the sales price but much less because of the costs to close the Notario/a would need to pay. Some costs would be a flat rate not tied to the selling price, I suspect. I was talking about a house and a "departamento" under 1.5 million pesos. 4% = $60,000 pesos or $3,300 USD.


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## gringotim

horseshoe846 said:


> Currently it is a 'buyer's market' in Mexico - I think you need to look around a little more. When we bought our house perhaps the agent's commission was built into the price - but it wasn't thrown in our face. The sellers came down nearly 20%. I also don't think we paid the notary anywhere near 4% to handle the closing. I do remember we were charged a rather steep fee by the state/city we live in. Fortunately it was the notary's lawyer who handled our closing who put us in touch with another lawyer. We sued to recoup some of those closing charges - and won. It probably amounted to 3-6 months living expenses !


Just to clarify, we are only interested buying in a certain condo complex, so looking around a little more isn't really in the cards, we have looked at all that is available in the complex thats within our budget. If we buy one that is listed with an agent, then our agent looks after everything that would need to be done, and would get his share of the commission from the seller,, so all we would have to pay would be the closing costs etc, no commission out of our pockets etc, but the condo in question is a for sale by owner, "asking price" was already 2nd lowest in the complex, by almost $10k and they are not interested in paying commission on top of already reducing the asking price another 6%. so when i asked the agent what he would charge us to handle stuff he simply said his usual share of a commission, 4% + .64 IVA on the 4%, it wasn't "thrown in our face", I asked, he answered, with the answer I kinda expected. i also emailed another agent at a different agency and asked the same question, and got the same answer. Seller is in no hurry to sell as they rent it out for most of the year at $2800 US/month, if we don't buy it, there's always the next person. This would be our first purchase in Mexico and is for us to spend our retirement, so just want to make sure we go about it the right way, if this was here in Canada, no problem, but its not, it's Mexico, so don't want a problem. :fingerscrossed:


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## eastwind

If you have the option to rent it for a while before buying it, that would really be worth considering. You might be able to negotiate that monthly rental down a good bit for signing a full-year lease. By the end of a year you'd know _everything_ that is wrong with that apartment, how often the neighbors have loud parties, how responsive the administration is, etc etc.

In my condo there are I think six or eight elevators, but only two elevators that service any given apartment. One of "my" two elevators broke. The condo administration didn't do anything about it for months. I didn't fuss about it, because I was waiting to see what would happen. Then the second elevator broke. Not a huge problem for me because I'm on the 3rd floor and can get up two flights without a heart attack, which is why I hadn't complained about one being down. The people on the 10th floor obviously screamed bloody murder. The elevator that had been languishing unfixed for months was fixed the next day, and the second one the day after that. I didn't ask if they cannibalized parts from other working elevators to fix mine.

So that story is an example of the kind of experience you can get renting for a while. You can sometimes get that same information by knocking on doors and talking to the neighbors, but for that you need more language and social skills than some people have.


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## gringotim

eastwind said:


> If you have the option to rent it for a while before buying it, that would really be worth considering.


Trust me, that has crossed our mind, but in the 5-6 months since we seriously started thinking about this, condo prices in the complex have gone up about 20% partly because of supply and demand, but our bank account doesn't get any bigger, and our Canadian dollar hasn't improved, And the first few condo's we were interested in sold within weeks of being listed, so if the ones of interest now sell, then when will another come up thats within budget, if ever. Luckily for us, we heard of the private sale by word of mouth, its not being advertised, so very few people know about it, and it does have the best view. Decisions, Decisions


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## AlanMexicali

gringotim said:


> Trust me, that has crossed our mind, but in the 5-6 months since we seriously started thinking about this, condo prices in the complex have gone up about 20% partly because of supply and demand, but our bank account doesn't get any bigger, and our Canadian dollar hasn't improved, And the first few condo's we were interested in sold within weeks of being listed, so if the ones of interest now sell, then when will another come up thats within budget, if ever. Luckily for us, we heard of the private sale by word of mouth, its not being advertised, so very few people know about it, and it does have the best view. Decisions, Decisions


Stop the typical Canadian hum and haw and get what you want. I bet you will be very pleased in the end and not lose the good deal to another buyer. IMO


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## citlali

If you are interested in that condo complex, really do not see what is difficult to decide, you snatch it at the best price you can before someone else does since in that particular location there iare not a lot of places for sale..


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## gringotim

AlanMexicali said:


> Stop the typical Canadian hum and haw and get what you want. I bet you will be very pleased in the end and not lose the good deal to another buyer. IMO


"Canadian Hum and Haw" , or Due Diligence? Some say don't rush a decision, you may regret it. We say if it was meant to be, it will happen. Maybe some know how to go about purchasing a private sale in Mexico, we don't, thats why I have been asking questions. Some say get a buyers agent, some say don't, some say get a law firm, some say don't, some say get a notario, and most agree, so my original question about Mexlaw seems to have been answered, but now we have to find a trusted notario, because some say they aren't all as honest as others. But I am sure some will say, just take your chances and pick one and hope its the right choice and you don't lose all your money....so on another forum I have asked for referrals in PV and have received the names of two notario's from regular posters who have used their services.:whoo:


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## citlali

Whether you rush it or not you can always regret a decision.. just do not pay more money than you can afford to lose, I think that is the secret in Mexico.., When we came here we had just sold our house in California and could afford an expensive one here but we opted to buy a house that was good for us and that we could afford to walk away from if we needed to.. not that we wanted to but we still would live the way we like if we lost it.. I think it is the way to go in Mexico..


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## AlanMexicali

Some say everything will work out OK if you act now and don´t let this discounted "departamento" slip away. If a Notario/a rips you off they will be taking a huge risk of losing their state "patent" and losing their right to pracatice in that state. I doubt very much they are stupid enough to do that in Jalisco as being a notario/a is a very lucritive carrer in Mexico. No buyer agent is needed here in Mexico for a private real estate sale - the notario/a writes the sales contract to both buyer´s and seller´s satisfaction. No advising lawyer is needed in Mexico - Notarios/as are real estate lawyers. 

In conclusion all you need to do is call a Notaria [Notarios office] and get the ball rolling. IMO

I am confident all will go as usual and you will get the place if someone else doesn´t get it before you do.

This is the way it is done in Mexico from my 37 years of experience and buying 3 properties and selling 2. I bought the first house in 1982 and the last "departamento" in 2014 all the same way as I described above except the 2 I sold I had realtors. They are needed for selling and not needed for buying property. Good Luck!


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## gringotim

AlanMexicali said:


> .... No buyer agent is needed here in Mexico for a private real estate sale - the notario/a writes the sales contract to both buyer´s and seller´s satisfaction. No advising lawyer is needed in Mexico - Notarios/as are real estate lawyers.
> In conclusion all you need to do is call a Notaria [Notarios office] and get the ball rolling. IMO!


And now we know, but like doing anything for the first time, sometimes it takes a little investigation on how to proceed properly instead of jumping in blindly and living to regret it. Thanks all.:high5:


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## RVGRINGO

Tim,
Remember to discuss the scheduling of the closing with the notario, as you will have to arrange for the transfer of funds. Notarios do not handle your money, nor are there escrow firms. Once everything is in order, phone calls are made and funds are immediately transferred between banks and confirmed. If near a coast or border, there is the added complication of the fidiecomiso/trust, which the notario will explain to you, as you cannot hold a simple deed in those areas, but must be the beneficiary of a bank trust, which holds actual title for foreigners.


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