# Staring?



## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

Has anyone had trouble with locals staring? In Guanajuato and the first few days I thought it was my imagination. The first morning I went to get coffee, still dark and wet out, a truck stopped and tried talking to me. I thought that was a fluke. However, I have had no less than three cars a day doing the same thing since then. Is this normal? I also notice that people stare at me a lot. Not a little, I am used to being around people and I know everyone looks at everyone. This staring is quite pronounced and is often followed by turning around and continuing to stare.

I am a very friendly person. I smile and greet people because I enjoy other people. This behavior is making me feel very isolated as now I am keeping my head down and trying to ignore other people. Is this how my life will be here?

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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Guanajuato doesn't have a large expat population or even a heavy amount of expat tourists except maybe around the jardin. I think that you are new to them and you are new to the city. I've always tried to wave and give a greeting and mostly returned.
I think that you just need be you while taking reasonable precautions.
I don't live in Guanajuato and I'm a pretty large male so you might get more knowledgeable feedback from others.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Yes, you will get stares forever I'm afraid. I'm male and have lived here for almost 4 years and people still stare at me, probably because of my bright blue eyes, which are extremely rare here, and a shaved head. Being an attractive woman can double that stare factor easily. It happens even in the Jardín. Even though foreigners are more common there, people go to the Jardín to people watch so that ups the likelihood that they will watch you since you are different.

Sadly, amongst a certain portion of the "macho" male culture here, even an innocent friendly smile from a good looking woman will be interpreted as a sort of come on. You may have to learn to keep a "city face" on more often while walking around.


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

This experience is reminiscent of times when I was a young woman visiting towns like Tia Juana. I didn't expect it in a family/college town like this. Today a young woman actually hissed at me...HISSED. It is very disconcerting. This is such a lovely place. I am down here trying to figure out if this is a place to relocate with my fifteen year old son. It was my first choice, but I had never actually lived here or come here alone before.

I don't have blue eyes and blond hair. I am often mistaken for a white-minority back home, dark features and a very fair olive complexion. Most people think I am Italian or Portuguese. I didn't expect to be such a sore thumb. One on one, the people couldn't have been friendlier or more helpful and kind. But as a community, well it makes me feel very unsafe to be leered at constantly. I am used to some attention. I feel like I am walking around naked by the way people are reacting to me. (Jeans a sweater and a coat, actually).

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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I have never seen nor heard of that hissing behavior; that's an odd one.

In much of Mexico the "macho" culture still lives on and men staring at women is considered fairly normal. So it isn't just Guanajuato. Guanajuato is very old school, provincial and conservative (some folks on this forum have said it isn't but I would very much disagree).

Conservative, in its true meaning, means to conserve the old ways, and that typical "macho male pig" is a part of those old ways. I'm in DF right now and even though it is the most modern and liberal of Mexican cities, I still see that same thing here. I catch local guys staring at my wife all the time - and she's Mexican and looks very Mexican. A foreigner - even if she looks Italian or Portuguese - will attract even more attention.

I am not saying that you shouldn't take precautions to protect yourself (you should do that everywhere you travel), but most of those guys are chickens and will back off quickly if confronted.

Maybe some of the women here in the forum will have thoughts on how to deal with the situation.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

The picture of yourself shows a very good looking woman. That may be part of the reason for some staring. I know you said you are a friendly, outgoing person. Another reason you may be under watch. The women standing guard over their men and the men doing what they do best. Spend some time looking at the beautiful Mexican women while they are out walking alone. Eyes straight ahead and a serious , no nonsense look on their face. They do this for a reason, that being to stop the Macho men who are doing their thing and hitting on women who will give them the time of day..
Spend some hours watching people from a park bench and you will learn mucho.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

circle110 said:


> I have never seen nor heard of that hissing behavior; that's an odd one.
> 
> In much of Mexico the "macho" culture still lives on and men staring at women is considered fairly normal. So it isn't just Guanajuato. Guanajuato is very old school, provincial and conservative (some folks on this forum have said it isn't but I would very much disagree).
> 
> ...


Another thing to consider is when new to a place you have the habit of checking everything out and this entails turning your head every which way and looking in doorways to see everything. This is a dead giveaway you are a tourist. [camera bag excluded, now they fit in a pocket]

When we were in Toronto we did this and many nice friendly Canadians came right up to us and asked are we trying to find someplace special, I can help you. etc.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Another thing to consider is when new to a place you have the habit of checking everything out and this entails turning your head every which way and looking in doorways to see everything. This is a dead giveaway you are a tourist. [camera bag excluded, now they fit in a pocket]
> 
> When we were in Toronto we did this and many nice friendly Canadians came right up to us and asked are we trying to find someplace special, I can help you. etc.


The best way to avoid such looks is to avoid the behaviors above. I tend to, without really trying, act as though I know my way around. This has resulted in such fun results as being asked directions by an Italian, as I sat alone eating a slice of pizza by the Trevi Fountain. I did my best imitation of an Italian, and shrugged. Mind you, I had, at the time, nearly blond hair along with my extraordinarily pale complexion, blue eyes and freckles.

I've been asked directions in such disparate places as San Diego and Dublin, as well. It's always flattering, you know?


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

mickisue1 said:


> The best way to avoid such looks is to avoid the behaviors above. I tend to, without really trying, act as though I know my way around. This has resulted in such fun results as being asked directions by an Italian, as I sat alone eating a slice of pizza by the Trevi Fountain. I did my best imitation of an Italian, and shrugged. Mind you, I had, at the time, nearly blond hair along with my extraordinarily pale complexion, blue eyes and freckles.
> 
> I've been asked directions in such disparate places as San Diego and Dublin, as well. It's always flattering, you know?


Any chance he was just hitting on you, knowing full well you weren't Italian?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

edgeee said:


> Any chance he was just hitting on you, knowing full well you weren't Italian?


I hope not. He was elderly.

I was not.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Curious people is all I can figure. They look at me alone, with Mexicans, in my car, etc. Mexicans look at Mexicans almost the same way if they are unknown to the 'looker'.

The only part I would give second thought to is someone stopping their car to talk. That's either too macho or worse


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

mickisue1 said:


> I hope not. He was elderly.
> 
> I was not.


Ah, an Italian dirty old man!


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> Ah, an Italian dirty old man!


 hey wait a minute! as the famous Curley said," I resemble that remark!"


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

"a truck stopped and tried talking to me. "

What kind of pickup line did this "truck" use...


"This experience is reminiscent of times when I was a young woman visiting towns like Tia Juana. "

Only 1 a and 1 word = Tijuana....


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

tepetapan said:


> hey wait a minute! as the famous Curley said," I resemble that remark!"


I also which is why struck home!

Going back to basic concern. I think it is terrible that anyone should be made to feel unsafe or even uncomfortable because of gender, nationality or anything else.
Macho can lead to what happened in India.
Not to make light but I had a woman friend on assignment in Tokyo in the '90's.
She was constantly being pinched on the subway. She'd had enough and next time she grabbed the hand and held it high saying that this hand had just pinched her. A very distinguished elderly gentleman in a suit on the other end of the arm held high disclaimed any knowledge of the offending hand.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

My first time in Mexico, in the summer of 1966, I was a very young 20 year-old American woman. Though I wasn't tall with blonde hair and blue eyes, I was still obviously not Mexican. When I walked down the street in the neighborhood where I was staying, I did notice a certain type of man looking at me, and I didn't like it at all! I soon learned to put on a bit of a stone-face and learned not to smile at strangers, especially the male ones. This seemed to do the trick. Now I'm in my late 60s but occasionally still get the eye from men in the street, even youngish ones, but I just ignore them! In my neighborhood, of course, I greet friends and neighbors, and even exchange greetings with people I don't know. Out and alone in other parts of the city, I am still circumspect and avoid making eye contact with strangers in the street.


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

chicois8 said:


> "a truck stopped and tried talking to me. "
> 
> What kind of pickup line did this "truck" use...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I recognized my typo spelling error after I posted it. Annoying and embarrassing. Sorry.

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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

chicois8 said:


> "a truck stopped and tried talking to me. "
> 
> What kind of pickup line did this "truck" use...
> 
> ...


And honestly...my Spanish is so rough that I don't know what the truck driver said. I shrugged the first one off to being out of the ordinary. It unfortunately has NOT turned out to be out of the ordinary. It has happened so many times that it doesn't even surprise me at this point. Fortunately the hissing only happened once. I keep trying to justify it and think maybe she was doing it as a joke for her friends. She was pretty young. 

What everyone is saying about being an obvious tourist and looking around...I get that. I have purposely tried to not do that. I learned that lesson a long time ago when I learned how to "look like a New Yorker".

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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> My first time in Mexico, in the summer of 1966, I was a very young 20 year-old American woman. Though I wasn't tall with blonde hair and blue eyes, I was still obviously not Mexican. When I walked down the street in the neighborhood where I was staying, I did notice a certain type of man looking at me, and I didn't like it at all! I soon learned to put on a bit of a stone-face and learned not to smile at strangers, especially the male ones. This seemed to do the trick. Now I'm in my late 60s but occasionally still get the eye from men in the street, even youngish ones, but I just ignore them! In my neighborhood, of course, I greet friends and neighbors, and even exchange greetings with people I don't know. Out and alone in other parts of the city, I am still circumspect and avoid making eye contact with strangers in the street.


I believe the bottom line is that I need to make a decision about whether or not I can handle it here as a single woman alone. I can keep my head down and that seems to help a little, although I still hear the tittering. I haven't yet established whether or not the unsafe feeling I have all of the time is because I am not used to being an object of such overt constant attention or if there is some genuine danger or risk that I am sensing.

As women, we all get used to some attention from men that may be over the top or unwanted. The fact that after being used to it for so long to now find it so completely unnerving means something.

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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> This experience is reminiscent of times when I was a young woman visiting towns like Tia Juana. I didn't expect it in a family/college town like this. Today a young woman actually hissed at me...HISSED. It is very disconcerting.


_¡Tss! ¡Tss tss! _is a way to call someone's attention. It is not meant to be impertinent. It's how a waiter is asked to bring the check, for example, or to let you know you've walked out of the bathroom with toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe.

There is no word for "to stare" in Spanish and the behavior isn't considered as rude as is among Anglo-Americans. People do tend to look rather fixedly at strangers who might be out of their element. Perhaps they are suspicious of you; perhaps they're thinking they would like to offer help to a lost tourist if only they could muster up enough English to do so.

Incidentally, our fair city is called Tijuana (tee-HWA-nah). Tía Juana was the name of the nineteenth-century rancho the city was built around and, for a while, the name of our river.


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

arturo_b said:


> ¡Tss! ¡Tss tss! is a way to call someone's attention. It is not meant to be impertinent. It's how a waiter is asked to bring the check, for example, or to let you know you've walked out of the bathroom with toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe.
> 
> There is no word for "to stare" in Spanish and the behavior isn't considered as rude as is among Anglo-Americans. People do tend to look rather fixedly at strangers who might be out of their element. Perhaps they are suspicious of you; perhaps they're thinking they would like to offer help to a lost tourist if only they could muster up enough English to do so.
> 
> Incidentally, our fair city is called Tijuana (tee-HWA-nah). Tía Juana was the name of the nineteenth-century rancho the city was built around and, for a while, the name of our river.


Thank you for correcting my embarrassing spelling mistake. Believe me, I noticed the error immediately after posting it, as I noted in a later posting. I was upset while posting originally and didn't pay attention.

I am leaving Guanajuato tomorrow. It is lovely and the people, when approached directly, have been exceedingly kind. However, I have come to believe that even if it is safe here, which I now question, it is not comfortable for a single woman...even so, it would be a risk I might take were I not a single mother. However, I don't want my son to ever have to witness the grotesque, and I mean that wholeheartedly, way that men have behaved toward me. The tss bit you described is only a tiny fraction of what has been happening and continues to happen. The grunting, the gestures and other behaviors translate perfectly across languages and cultures. Perhaps I will return if I ever remarry or have a man with me since I have learned now that this place is not friendly for women alone. It breaks my heart because I loved it here. 

My experiences with Mexico City were far more positive. I am not terribly interested in living there however.

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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> I have come to believe that even if it is safe here, which I now question, it is not comfortable for a single woman...even so, it would be a risk I might take were I not a single mother. However, I don't want my son to ever have to witness the grotesque, and I mean that wholeheartedly, way that men have behaved toward me.


It's hard to generalize for an entire country, especially on the subject of machismo, but the less cosmopolitan classes of Mexico are known for having overly forward men. Single women ignore the _piropos _unless they want to be picked up. Women with children are not supposed to be subjected to this treatment, out of a cultural respect for motherhood, but men are getting to be unbelievably vulgar these days especially in places like Sinaloa. In any event, these men do not present a danger to you so long as you don't acknowledge them. (It's a little like what is said about New Yorkers -- they're perfectly harmless so long as you don't make eye-contact.)

I forgot to mention about the staring, if it bothers you, just give the person a cheery _¡Buenas!_ and their demeanor will change to something you'll recognize as friendly.


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

arturo_b said:


> It's hard to generalize for an entire country, especially on the subject of machismo, but the less cosmopolitan classes of Mexico are known for having overly forward men. Single women ignore the piropos unless they want to be picked up. Women with children are not supposed to be subjected to this treatment, out of a cultural respect for motherhood, but men are getting to be unbelievably vulgar these days especially in places like Sinaloa. In any event, these men do not present a danger to you so long as you don't acknowledge them. (It's a little like what is said about New Yorkers -- they're perfectly harmless so long as you don't make eye-contact.)
> 
> I forgot to mention about the staring, if it bothers you, just give the person a cheery ¡Buenas! and their demeanor will change to something you'll recognize as friendly.


Oh please don't think that I am judging the entire country! Or even the entire population of Guanajuato. I am sure that it is a small percentage who think it is ok to act that way...and maybe if my Spanish was less shattered I would not feel as isolated and disheartened by the behavior. I am 5'10, athletic and far from shy or shrinking. In New York, I would have put them in their place. Pigs are the same in any culture I suspect. But my confidence is lowered because of my own unilingual disadvantage. Mainly I wanted to know if others experience this or if it is reserved for women who are alone. 

The danger perception comes from them stopping in their vehicles to speak to me on the street...although today that didn't happen even once, which was refreshing.

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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

one4mandy said:


> Oh please don't think that I am judging the entire country! Or even the entire population of Guanajuato. I am sure that it is a small percentage who think it is ok to act that way...and maybe if my Spanish was less shattered I would not feel as isolated and disheartened by the behavior. I am 5'10, athletic and far from shy or shrinking. In New York, I would have put them in their place. Pigs are the same in any culture I suspect. But my confidence is lowered because of my own unilingual disadvantage. Mainly I wanted to know if others experience this or if it is reserved for women who are alone.
> 
> The danger perception comes from them stopping in their vehicles to speak to me on the street...although today that didn't happen even once, which was refreshing.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


5ft. 10 inches WOW. You are a head and a half taller than most of the others then. I´m 6 feet, light hair, pale white skin with bright blue eyes and get stared at all the time here. My buddy who has pale white skin 6 ft. 2 inches blue eyes and long white hair in a ponytai and a 6 inch white scraggly beard does also, even more so than me, when in Mexico. He goes "Ho Ho Ho" to the kids and they laugh at him, except once a 2 year old started to cry. 

Queretaro state is one of the most conservative places, as is San Luis Potosi, and women over about 25 usually do not wear tight fitting pants or blue jeans, in the winter, but loose fitting pants with a couple of layers od thermals on so even in summer they tend to hide under looser clothing and shorter hair as they seem to want to indicate they are not available and like to be called señora, not señorita. If they do wear tight clothes at an older age they might attract attention and could possibly be looking for a guy. Just my take on it. I wouldn´t worry about it it seems innocent and normal to me considering all the cirumstances you mentioned. You will get used to it, I am sure. Alan


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> 5ft. 10 inches WOW. You are a head and a half taller than most of the others then. I´m 6 feet, light hair, pale white skin with bright blue eyes and get stared at all the time here. My buddy who has pale white skin 6 ft. 2 inches blue eyes and long white hair in a ponytai and a 6 inch white scraggly beard does also, even more so than me, when in Mexico. He goes "Ho Ho Ho" to the kids and they laugh at him, except once a 2 year old started to cry.
> 
> Queretaro state is one of the most conservative places, as is San Luis Potosi, and women over about 25 usually do not wear tight fitting pants or blue jeans, in the winter, but loose fitting pants with a couple of layers od thermals on so even in summer they tend to hide under looser clothing and shorter hair as they seem to want to indicate they are not available and like to be called señora, not señorita. If they do wear tight clothes at an older age they might attract attention and could possibly be looking for a guy. Just my take on it. I wouldn´t worry about it it seems innocent and normal to me considering all the cirumstances you mentioned. You will get used to it, I am sure. Alan


Guanajuato , not Queretaro. :ranger: Same thing though, part of conservative Central Mexico, Mexico City and Guadalajara exempted.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> Thank you for correcting my embarrassing spelling mistake. Believe me, I noticed the error immediately after posting it, as I noted in a later posting. I was upset while posting originally and didn't pay attention.
> 
> I am leaving Guanajuato tomorrow. It is lovely and the people, when approached directly, have been exceedingly kind. However, I have come to believe that even if it is safe here, which I now question, it is not comfortable for a single woman...even so, it would be a risk I might take were I not a single mother. However, I don't want my son to ever have to witness the grotesque, and I mean that wholeheartedly, way that men have behaved toward me. The tss bit you described is only a tiny fraction of what has been happening and continues to happen. The grunting, the gestures and other behaviors translate perfectly across languages and cultures. Perhaps I will return if I ever remarry or have a man with me since I have learned now that this place is not friendly for women alone. It breaks my heart because I loved it here.
> 
> ...


Since you are so close, why don't you check San Miguel. There is quite a large number of single women there and I've never heard of an issue. Spent last night with two women that went to visit women friends in SMA and they wandered all over the city.
BTW, also great schooling options for your son.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Alan, your descriptions reminded me of much of Italy. They don't start dressing dowdy till about 55, but then it's the shapeless black coats and polyester pants.

The last time I was there, I wore a bright blue and white plaid short trench coat. Made me feel better, all by itself.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

mickisue1 said:


> Alan, your descriptions reminded me of much of Italy. They don't start dressing dowdy till about 55, but then it's the shapeless black coats and polyester pants.
> 
> The last time I was there, I wore a bright blue and white plaid short trench coat. Made me feel better, all by itself.


Dowdy no, maybe in loose fitting slacks and a baggy , to me stupid looking, winter ski jacket or formal wool coat, which I like. 

In Mexicali the women do not dress the same as here in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc. or chop off their hair. They dress very modern like in southern California and I get the comments from here: "They are SOOO liberal and dress "flirty" when I was in Mexicali and TJ." "Being on the border of Calif. has a "bad" influence on Mexicans." .. lines all the time until I say: "They are so feminine, just like on Mexican TV." That usually kills the subject fast - what do I have to loose, they already think I am one of those liberals from Calif.  :tongue1:  My wife loves it when this happens.

It is almost like being in Texas and they find out you are from southern California.  :tongue1:


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

It sounds more and more like it is my own ignorance that caused the issue. I have lived all over the US but never outside of the states nor in such a conservative area. What i think of as ordinary every day attire sounds like it may be considered somehow flirtatious or suggestive. I have noticed everyone is I winter clothing and I don't feel the need to wrap up like that as it was bust-ass cold when I left the states. So maybe, to some extent, I am unknowingly walking around dressed like I am looking for attention.

HOWEVER, I still don't think that is an acceptable excuse for being so aggressive. But, who am I to come to their country and demand they live to my expectations.

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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> It sounds more and more like it is my own ignorance that caused the issue. I have lived all over the US but never outside of the states nor in such a conservative area. What i think of as ordinary every day attire sounds like it may be considered somehow flirtatious or suggestive. I have noticed everyone is I winter clothing and I don't feel the need to wrap up like that as it was bust-ass cold when I left the states. So maybe, to some extent, I am unknowingly walking around dressed like I am looking for attention.
> 
> HOWEVER, I still don't think that is an acceptable excuse for being so aggressive. But, who am I to come to their country and demand they live to my expectations.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


There could be some of that but I doubt it. I see a lot of Mexican women dressed to the nines with 4 inch heels(on cobblestone) and don't really see much harassment.
As much as we like visiting Guanajuato, I wouldn't stay anywhere that makes me feel uncomfortable and shame on the men there for doing so.

I'm serious though about SMA if you are still in the area. One of the real positive feedbacks is how safe & comfortable it makes single women feel. And as I said, great school options for your son.


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

one4mandy said:


> It sounds more and more like it is my own ignorance that caused the issue. I have lived all over the US but never outside of the states nor in such a conservative area. What i think of as ordinary every day attire sounds like it may be considered somehow flirtatious or suggestive. I have noticed everyone is I winter clothing and I don't feel the need to wrap up like that as it was bust-ass cold when I left the states. So maybe, to some extent, I am unknowingly walking around dressed like I am looking for attention.
> 
> HOWEVER, I still don't think that is an acceptable excuse for being so aggressive. But, who am I to come to their country and demand they live to my expectations.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


I too get the stares, but not because of my looks....I too am never cold and will typically walk the dog in shorts and a t-shirt, even on these "cold" winter mornings. The looks that I get from people bundled up like Nanook of the North are amazing. Driving with my windows down brings the same stare of incredulity from other drivers.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I agree with conklinwh that it would be well worth your while to go visit San Miguel de Allende.

San Miguel and Guanajuato are like two sides of the same coin - very much alike and very different at the same time. I know many people who are totally charmed by one and find the other merely interesting. It depends on the individual.

Guanajuato City isn't for everyone and you can't know whether it's for you or not if you don't spend some time there to see how it feels. San Miguel has many similarities to Gto. but is very different, especially for a foreigner new to Mexico living.

Conklinwh has mentioned several times that he feels that San Miguel is ideal for new expats and I would agree. It has a long standing and well entrenched expat community and the locals are very accustomed to seeing foreigners of various origins, sizes, shapes and colors.

I think his advice is good and you should take the 90 minute bus ride to go see for yourself.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Blend in*

You've gotten some great suggestions. Can only add one thing.

Watch how the local gals have their hair styles, and dress. Match their hair style and dress a little more conservative than them (and that's not too conservative) and you will be less noticed.

My wife when in Spain (she's 110% Mexicana) was constantly confused for being from Catalan.

When in Italy they always spoke Italian too her thinking she was Italian.

So, make a little effort to blend a little.

As you will see the Mexican women dress a whole lot more risque than in USA so it shouldn't mean giving up much of your wardrobe (temporarily) until they know you around town. Remember your new town is really just a small little provincial town. It is a national past time in Mexico and that goes for nice elegant looking older women too. You'll appreciate it when you're older. I actually think the women in my city dress specifically to get the attention down here. Ask some of them about their opinion on this subject and how they handle it.

Get out there and explore before the 14 million visitors come next month to the Cervantes Festival. It is in February is it not? You might be able maybe to rent out the floor of your garage for people to sleep it's such a mob.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

circle110

Just an excellent post! I can't agree more.

I love Guanajuato more, and my wife say's nope - San Miguel de Allende. Two sides of a vary nice coin to keep.


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

conklinwh said:


> There could be some of that but I doubt it. I see a lot of Mexican women dressed to the nines with 4 inch heels(on cobblestone) and don't really see much harassment.
> As much as we like visiting Guanajuato, I wouldn't stay anywhere that makes me feel uncomfortable and shame on the men there for doing so.
> 
> I'm serious though about SMA if you are still in the area. One of the real positive feedbacks is how safe & comfortable it makes single women feel. And as I said, great school options for your son.


I am going to try it! I had hoped to be somewhere more traditional and less American...but maybe that's exactly why I also uncomfortable!

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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> I am going to try it! I had hoped to be somewhere more traditional and less American...but maybe that's exactly why I also uncomfortable!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


Mandy, the expat population isn't overwhelming and you can experience very different things based on your interest.
We have two single female friends that have recently redone places in colonia Guadalupe that is more traditional area with a sprinkling of artists. It is also easy walking distance to Aurora that is now the art center as well as to centro. 
I think that you will be pleasantly surprised. SMA has been very crowded through last weekend because of Tres Reyes but should be settling down.
If you get there, make sure that you spend some time in the jardin people watching. I like to get a cup of coffee at La Ventana on Sollano but there are many places. 
Then go to the biblioteca on Insurjentes which is the center of expat charity work and I believe the 2nd largest bilingual library in Mexico. It was started in an old convent after WW2 as a place for spouses of art students on the GI bill to tutor local children.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Head towards the coast young lass.*

Hi one4mandy;

The more posts I read on this the more I pick up that it was mainly your dress that attracted so much attention, then your height. In our state there are a sizeable number of gals your height. Puerto Vallarta was thought by the early Spanish to be inhabited by Amazonians, and Banderas Bay is part of Nayarit. What I don't get around here is why does a gal that's like 6 ft. or higher ware 3-6" high heels on top of that? I do often see them in pairs? Is it a way to still be able to dress pretty yet tell most men, you're out of your leaque by about half a meter?

Especially in a cold winter, locals might take that as suggestive? Read my other post it still apply's, but if you know you won't want to change your attire once aclimmated to that area? Then head towards the coast. There, they're more midriff bare, short skirts, open blouses way more relaxed and sexy looking. Maybe that should make up a big part of where you want to live, how you want to dress? Head east to Vera Cruz or west to Mazatlan, both great cities with a great life style.

Gal you need to make some Latina girl friends quick. I think then you'll turn from dredding it to controlling it, and eventually to enjoying the state that you have controlled it to. Latinas are Masters of femminity and being part of the beauty of the environment and enjoying it. I see it starting out in 1.5 year olds at the beach. It's still mind boggling to me, but I must admit to enjoying it.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Not much NOT to like about SMA & High Heels.*

I doubt you could live anywhere in Latin America as culturally rich as the Revolution Triangle with Guanajuato, SMA, and Dolores de Hildalgo? SMA might be better to live and have a quick one hour trip to the first city and only half an hour to Hildalgo for great visits. Me l've lived so many places I just love Guanajuato - there doesn't seem to be a complete rectangle or square building near down town - everything is angles. Angles never get boring as they go to infinite degrees. Well at least I think that.

I'm also just so amazed at the Latinas how they can navigate a block of cobble stone street or parking lot in 6" heels and not tip over or fall. Actually they can walk it better than me in my flat men's shoes! I bet one in 100 gals from USA couldn't do that? Might get a Latina to give you a class on that.


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

cuylers5746 said:


> I doubt you could live anywhere in Latin America as culturally rich as the Revolution Triangle with Guanajuato, SMA, and Dolores de Hildalgo? SMA might be better to live and have a quick one hour trip to the first city and only half an hour to Hildalgo for great visits. Me l've lived so many places I just love Guanajuato - there doesn't seem to be a complete rectangle or square building near down town - everything is angles. Angles never get boring as they go to infinite degrees. Well at least I think that.
> 
> I'm also just so amazed at the Latinas how they can navigate a block of cobble stone street or parking lot in 6" heels and not tip over or fall. Actually they can walk it better than me in my flat men's shoes! I bet one in 100 gals from USA couldn't do that? Might get a Latina to give you a class on that.


I will leave that to them! I ran up and down Capital Hill in high heels long enough. Now I am happy to remain 5'10 with my feet comfortably on the ground. I am already overwhelmed by the extreme amount of attention I have received; I can only imagine if I decided to wear my high heels and be 6'4 while being directed to follow the Amarillo Brick Road. 

I have seen them walking in their heels. God bless them.  Not this girl.

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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

cuylers5746 said:


> Hi one4mandy;
> 
> The more posts I read on this the more I pick up that it was mainly your dress that attracted so much attention, then your height. In our state there are a sizeable number of gals your height. Puerto Vallarta was thought by the early Spanish to be inhabited by Amazonians, and Banderas Bay is part of Nayarit. What I don't get around here is why does a gal that's like 6 ft. or higher ware 3-6" high heels on top of that? I do often see them in pairs? Is it a way to still be able to dress pretty yet tell most men, you're out of your leaque by about half a meter?
> 
> ...


My dress while I have been here is any page you want to pull from a GAP catalog. Far from sexy or suggestive, at least not intentionally. Jeans and t shirts. Sweatshirts and jeans. Sweaters and jeans...

When at the coast I will dress like I am at the coast. But I assure you, It wasn't a play for attention coming here. I am not a young girl. The entire reason for my concern was that I would know how to get a lot of attention if that was my intention. I am here alone and I do NOT want to feel that kind of attention. I have done nothing within my power to try to get it, yet it has been there to an extremely uncomfortable degree. I have realized that maybe I need to cover up like I am in the Middle East when I am in a provincial Mexican town.

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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Gee Mandy, I just had a look at your profile page and now I understand why you are being stared at, 
Your Gorgeous, If I saw you walking down the street I at 65 years young might stare also...suerte


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*What can pleasantly happen to you down here*

I whole heartily hope that you do go to SMA and explore, discover the town. It's very old quaint old Spanish Style, but with some very modern coffee shop, bakeries like you would find in D.F. They even have a great French Bakery. There's a number of places to hang out at night and hear some duets, one of them from the USA. Nice thing about Mexico there great mixed company bars where people just socialize and your son looks old enough to join in although won't be served a drink. A number of them are combo restaurant bar so he could come in. They also have a cute little theater for drama, concerts and shows. Every things is so dong gone close and walkable. Where have you ever seen a Spanish City that has a Bull Ring only three blocks off the main Plaza, (Jardin)?

I mean with homeowners in that town from 70 countries you just gotta meet some interesting people you'd love to hang out with? You might even already know a few Palm Beachers, they let sneak in every now and then?

And your son? I hope he likes Art. They have some great Art Institutes there in that town for him to attend full time or part time.

Now once you settle in some pleasant things can transpire. After about 10 years down here I find that a number of the American women that immerse themselves into society, start thinking differently and actually they become softer you can see it their eyes, like the Latinas. You already know you are pretty, but as you age and that softening happens and shows up on your face and eyes? Well even older you will be irresistible. Good possibility to have ahead of you?

I noticed this effect earlier this year when we meet up with one of my surfing buddies at the INM Immigration Office one day. She's in her late 50's, originally from Satscatuan (sp?) Canada, but grew up in So. Cal as a Surfer Gal. By the way she's quite good and at her age. I still have laughs when I think about her catching a 12 ft. wave in front of me with over a 15 ft. face and slapping down the face like on a tobaggon 3-4 times going airborne 4-5 ft each time before she reached the bottom stood up and did a bottom turn before several tons of water fell over her head. She made the wave to both of our amazement. It was good practice as she got washed out of her house in a class 5 Hurricane Kenna in 2005 and several blocks down the street trying to rescue her 4 dogs like a lifeguard before she got a big gouge in her calf from debris. People half her age would be dead from that. I'm pretty tough and a 50 year waterman, saved a few people in the ocean and scuba diving in my life and it would have been dicey for me.

This gal was so pretty at the Immigration office and alluring. Not bad for a gal in her late 50's?

You're tough having survived Capital Hill all those years - and I know you'll find Mexico just such a hoot like we all do. Do stay, and SMA is just the right bait to keep you here. Does your son like Dirt Bike riding? Great area around the town for that and some incredible vistas while horse back ridding. 10 years in SMA and he'll be a very learned knowledgeable kid about the whole world with all the people he'll meet from all over.

Sorry that you got a rude welcome from some small town provencial toads. SMA will make you smile. Actually thats the reception and impression that you should have been given. I can't walk down to the end of the block each morning without laughing at something cute I see. And, every day in Mexico is a complete adventure. So wake up tomorrow head to SMA and know this was meant to happen to send you where you should be living - maybe in SMA. Living in SMA you can enjoy trips in and out of Guanajuato still.

I mean you survived all those Congressmen and Senators a few bad days in Guanajuato don't let it give you a bad hair day!


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## one4mandy (Jun 21, 2012)

cuylers5746 said:


> I whole heartily hope that you do go to SMA and explore, discover the town. It's very old quaint old Spanish Style, but with some very modern coffee shop, bakeries like you would find in D.F. They even have a great French Bakery. There's a number of places to hang out at night and hear some duets, one of them from the USA. Nice thing about Mexico there great mixed company bars where people just socialize and your son looks old enough to join in although won't be served a drink. A number of them are combo restaurant bar so he could come in. They also have a cute little theater for drama, concerts and shows. Every things is so dong gone close and walkable. Where have you ever seen a Spanish City that has a Bull Ring only three blocks off the main Plaza, (Jardin)?
> 
> I mean with homeowners in that town from 70 countries you just gotta meet some interesting people you'd love to hang out with? You might even already know a few Palm Beachers, they let sneak in every now and then?
> 
> ...


Man...I may just have to sign that dotted line.

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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> I will leave that to them! I ran up and down Capital Hill in high heels long enough. Now I am happy to remain 5'10 with my feet comfortably on the ground. I am already overwhelmed by the extreme amount of attention I have received; I can only imagine if I decided to wear my high heels and be 6'4 while being directed to follow the Amarillo Brick Road.
> 
> I have seen them walking in their heels. God bless them.  Not this girl.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


If you get to SMA, you will see and might be enticed to buy what are fondly called San Miguel Combat boots. They have a good sole with reasonable heel. A strap over the toes and good heel support. Actually better than they sound and a good midpoint between sneakers and dress shoes on the cobblestones.


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

one4mandy said:


> Oh please don't think that I am judging the entire country!


Not to worry, that was me apologizing in advance for my own overly broad generalization. My perceptions are colored by Tijuana, _el embudo de la república_ -- the whole country funnels through us but that doesn't necessarily mean that my neighbors all behave as they did in their birthplaces.

People in Tijuana believe that gringas are promiscuous. And why should they not? Back when most tourism was all you can drink, our visitors were young and wild. It was a common sight for a gringa to urinate on the sidewalk."Oh, look, she's shaved" says one bystander. "Oh, really?" say three more, and out come the cellphone cameras. (Real dialogue, by the way.)

People who believe Mexican movies of the 1970s and '80s know gringas are loose and vapid -- hundreds of comedies characterized gringas as tall, blonde versions of Betty Boop. It's a stereotype that has since been reinforced by the Almada brothers in the 1990s because their Tijuana drug movies combined both stereotypes.



> The entire reason for my concern was that I would know how to get a lot of attention if that was my intention. I am here alone and I do NOT want to feel that kind of attention. I have done nothing within my power to try to get it, yet it has been there to an extremely uncomfortable degree.


A friend of mine taught English in southern Japan for a while. Ashley is six feet tall, blonde, and something like 38DD on top (maybe even a little more). What was the hardest part of acculturation for her? "Strangers would come up to me just to touch my hair or breasts," she said, "men and women. The subway was the worst. Everyone had the idea that I wouldn't mind."

Ashley eventually accepted the attention even though it always made her uncomfortable. Go along to get along, she said. So consider how lucky you are that you're not Ashley.

Masculine aggressiveness is something of a game here in Mexico because some women encourage it. The simplest solution is not to encourage it: just ignore the jerks. But you really have to ignore them because the slightest acknowledgement of their existence will only encourage them more. It's part of their game. 

When ignoring them doesn't work, you might have to discourage them actively. You know, withering remarks along the lines of "I don't date outside of my species." For that, you should ask local female friends for appropriate phrases as, I suspect, this technique varies from place to place. Here in Tijuana, an annoyed woman would say _"¡Váyase mucho a la verga, imbécil!"_ as she walked resolutely away.

For me, the trick is in pulling off the right attitude. Resorting to wearing a burqa or widow's weeds is too defeatist.


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## BeanTrader (Jan 9, 2013)

*On our way*

Hi Mandy,
My girlfriend and I are going to be in Guanajuato in April for a few weeks. We're planning a couple or three trips a year of about that length for a year or so before we finally make the move down.

Having lived in Mexico a long time ago, Actually in Veracruz, I noted that the "macho" thing is rampant there. Being an old ugly American man, I thankfully avoid it, but I'm worried for my girlfriend as well when we come. Not sure how she's going to take it. Let us know how things go. I guess I can bodyguard you both when I get there! lol.

Mike


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