# Missed the deadline - car going back to Canada



## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

I feel as if I need to write this as information to those who would import cars. Something to take into account is you are trying to decide whether to do the process yourself. 

I made a mistake, I thought the customs form that I received giving me the right to drive for 6 months meant I had started the process with customs to get the exemption on taxes. As I write this it seems obvious, but with all the details that I had to take care of this one I missed.

The end result is that they wanted over 29 thousand euro in duties and taxes to import our Honda Civic from Canada.

We are now in the process of sending arranging to send it back to Canada to sell there. A costly mistake. 500€ seemed a lot to pay someone to take care of the importing for me, now I see that it would have saved me a lot. 

It's embarrassing to admit to this, but I wanted to let people know that although many have succeeded on their own, not all are successful. Stupid mistakes are very costly. I should say that advice received on this site was good, but I still missed something that now seems obvious.

We have our health and our family here, so I'll get over this, but it still irks me.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Eish...... sorry to hear the bad news.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh Ana I am so sorry you have had all this trouble. The paperwork can be daunting I know I have done it. But the tax on my car was so little I didn`t even bother to import it tax frre. It is a Smart and cost only €600. I still begrudged paying it but it just made life so much easier


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Not great news at allbut why duties as a personal possession imported with your other possessions shouldn't have been import duty but yes I can unfortunately understand they won't allow you the "free" of ISV element if you didn't start process within time frame.


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## dstump (Apr 26, 2010)

Sorry to hear this Ana, it must be so frustrating when you believe you have done all that is required.

Denise


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words, it helps take the sting away. We are lucky that we have an old fiat that my parents gave us, so a one car family we will remain for now.

CM I understand that it was my error, but what I think would be fare is a fine for being late in the process. But then, fare isn't always an element in law in any country, must 'suck it up' as my kids say.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Theres a fine if a "personal import" isn't commenced within 20 days but unfortunately with the "free" of ISV option it's a straight; No you don't meet criteria as you didn't commence matriculation within 6 months of entering country and if you want to matriculate we charge you max possible.


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Not quite right. We did begin matriculation with IMTT. I checked the Alfandega site and gathered all the papers, it took over 6 months to get our homolgation. When I went to the Alfandega with all the required papers, I was told I had passed the 6 months.
I had an Alfandaga paper allowing the car to enter the country and giving me permission to drive for 6 months. My mistake was thinking that because it was on the same letter head from the same ministry that the process had been started. Nope, different branch and the processes are not connected. 
In hindsight I can see my mistake. My original post was because I tend to see postings of successful stories and though it's no fun to post about failure, I think it is informative for others considering.
The other thing I realize is that the site is primarily visited by folks from the UK and that taxes are not as high if you are considered part of the EU. It's because I was from Canada that the cost was so high. A civic is not a smart car, but it costs less than 29,988.80 euro, so the tax is pretty outrageous as it is more than twice what the car cost me and I think near what it costs here brand new.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Importing from anywhere is treated the same whether you import from a EU country or any other country for exemption of ISV, car is not subject to import duty if it's brought in as yours was with personal possessions.

Hopefully your warning has again alerted people to requirement of Matriculation being started within 6 months of the exit of country moved from for ISV exemption and 20 days if paying ISV


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

The process is the same with a couple of different results. My concern is the use of the term the matriculation. The IMTT take care of matriculation, I started the process with them in a timely manner. It was with the Alfandaga, a separate but connected process to get the stamp is required for the IMTT to prove that any required duties have been paid, that is the one I did not start.

Difference in summary:

1. Cost: You will see on the import calculator that there is a toggle option on the top, whether the country of origin is within the EU or a 3 party country. The calculator gives a very different result. That is the difference I was referring to.

2. Alfandaga: when you drive a car in from the UK, I don't think that you receive from the Alfandaga a form that gives you the right to bring in the car and drive it around. This was my confusion, this paper was never mentioned in any of the accounts that I read. I relied too heavily on the accounts from UK immigrants, I should have checked with a despashante.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

dstump said:


> Sorry to hear this Ana, it must be so frustrating when you believe you have done all that is required.
> 
> Denise



a lesson learnt Denise


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

We all need to do same in all I've helped with the 1st port of call is Customs as regardless of where car comes from it has to be imported and you first have to satisfy Customs that you have correct paperwork, proof of previous Residence etc to qualify for the ISV exemption then with the correct paperwork you can then go to IMTT for next stage of process.

Yes i'd agree an import from a 3rd country might attract import duty but in your case as car was imported as part of your personal possessions should not have certainly for ISV exemption which you unfortunately missed deadline for, why an earth didn't IMTT make you aware as you started process with them in a timely manner they should have realized and informed you


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

Firstly Ana may I say how sorry I am to hear about your experiences and thank you for surfacing this very confusing subject but just as I thought I was getting close to understanding things Canoeman throws this one in to the mx.....arghhhhh!! 



canoeman said:


> Theres a fine if a "personal import" isn't commenced within 20 days but unfortunately with the "free" of ISV option it's a straight; No you don't meet criteria as you didn't commence matriculation within 6 months of entering country.


I've not heard of this 20 day thing. Is it correct, CM, to assume that if I want TO PAY import tax on my 2008 motorcycle, (valued £3700), when I emigrate to Portugal, from the U.K., on June 17th, I must approach the customs / alfandanga guys within 20 days with my log book, proof of previous U.K. address (elec bill), proof of I.D. (passport), fiscal number? I am the brand new owner of a house in PT and consequently only have a photo copy of the transfer of the deeds to prove ownership, but not residency and I'm aware that I can't get a residencia cert until day 90.

What is the advantage of doing the above compared to matriculating the bike when I get a residencia certificate in month 4, which I assume is the process to avoid paying import tax?

Please make my headache go away Dr. CM...


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

canoeman said:


> why an earth didn't IMTT make you aware as you started process with them in a timely manner they should have realized and informed you


That would have been nice, alas that was not the case. A phrase we used to joke about in Quebec comes to mind... c'est pas ma job.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

In 2 bikes said:


> I've not heard of this 20 day thing. Is it correct, CM, to assume that if I want TO PAY import tax on my 2008 motorcycle, (valued £3700), when I emigrate to Portugal, from the U.K., on June 17th, I must approach the customs / alfandanga guys within 20 days with my log book, proof of previous U.K. address (elec bill), proof of I.D. (passport), fiscal number? I am the brand new owner of a house in PT and consequently only have a photo copy of the transfer of the deeds to prove ownership, but not residency and I'm aware that I can't get a residencia cert until day 90.
> 
> What is the advantage of doing the above compared to matriculating the bike when I get a residencia certificate in month 4, which I assume is the process to avoid paying import tax?
> 
> Please make my headache go away Dr. CM...


You're muddling 2 entirely different methods of importing a vehicle

If you import your bike/car/van etc as a *personal import* and *pay ISV*
1. You must *first* Register your Residence in Portugal *only* registered Residents can make personal imports of vehicles
2. *The Matriculation process must be commenced within 20 days of the date of importation* 
3. If you're importing and paying ISV *you must prove ownership (depending on import there might be a short ownership period to prove) and have CoC* but you *do not *have to prove your previous Residence or ownership of vehicle for prior 12 months that is for ISV exemption
4. Nothing to stop you getting Residence on day 1 or 2 etc, the law says you must complete before end of the 4 month but *doesn't* stipulate a minimum time

*Advantage* of ISV exemption is obviously the saving of ISV & IVA bikes are generally inexpensive so saving is less

*Disadvantage ISV Exemption* is you have to prove 12 months ownership, prior residence etc, plus you cannot sell or allow others to use the car/bike for 12 months, you must remain a Portuguese Resident for 12 months and if you sell year 2 to 5 pay a pro rata ISV saved
*ISV Exemption is a one off option* i.e. 1 vehicle per person Matriculated within 6 months of leaving previous country of Residence

*Advantage of importing and paying ISV* you *needn't* have owned car/bike for 12 months, *don't* have to prove prior residence and *don't* have the 12 month or 5 year restrictions, no real limit to the amount of vehicles that could be imported

Actual matriculation process is the same in both cases


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

anapedrosa said:


> That would have been nice, alas that was not the case. A phrase we used to joke about in Quebec comes to mind... c'est pas ma job.


Yes applies here but in this instance they couldn't do their job without the Customs papers Complaints Book?


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

canoeman said:


> You're muddling 2 entirely different methods of importing a vehicle
> 
> 3. If you're importing and paying ISV *you must prove ownership (depending on import there might be a short ownership period to prove) and have CoC* but you *do not *have to prove your previous Residence or ownership of vehicle for prior 12 months that is for ISV exemption


Am I correct in assuming then that only CoC equipped vehicles can be imported this way.
Leaves me a bit stuck when I want to import something like this below.

Ford F-350 Pick-Up 4X4 6.4 V8 Diesel as Off-road Vehicle/Pickup Truck in Culemborg

I cannot see me getting a CoC on one of these !!!!

Rob


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

I have considered the complaints book. I was thinking about Customs, but you are right, as you describe it IMTT would be the logical point of complaint. There were other things neglected to tell me, such as I had to pick up a form rather than have it mailed as they had before, adding to the delays. I would have been at customs on time otherwise. 
I'll have to prepare my summary of events.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

anapedrosa said:


> I have considered the complaints book. I was thinking about Customs, but you are right, as you describe it IMTT would be the logical point of complaint. There were other things neglected to tell me, such as I had to pick up a form rather than have it mailed as they had before, adding to the delays. I would have been at customs on time otherwise.
> I'll have to prepare my summary of events.


Hi Ana

I am so sorry to hear of your predicament, it is so frustrating having this situation which is totally beyond your control.

I was just thinking, it may be a long shot, but how about going to a well known reputable importation agent and asking if there is anything they can do to help you out of this situation.

Rob


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

canoeman said:


> You're muddling 2 entirely different methods of importing a vehicle
> 
> If you import your bike/car/van etc as a *personal import* and *pay ISV*
> 1. You must *first* Register your Residence in Portugal *only* registered Residents can make personal imports of vehicles
> ...



Once again, many thanks for clearing the fog ... I'm going to go down the PAY route .


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

robc said:


> Hi Ana
> 
> I am so sorry to hear of your predicament, it is so frustrating having this situation which is totally beyond your control.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rob.

I did speak with a reputable importation agent. When I asked about disputing the decision, he was the one that told me the only successful case they had was when a person was in prison and was not able to complete the process. He suggested if I had a health situation, etc... I might be able to follow that tract. No prison, good health, guess I shouldn't complain.

Re the COC: Our car did not have a COC, I went to ACAP and requested a homolgation using a Model 9 form, they responded with a no homologation and a process number, so I needed the Honda technical sheet to submit along with the ACAP form to IMTT who provided me with a homolgation.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Rob as it's a Netherlands site ? then I don't see that CoC would be a problem as it would reguire CoC or equivalent to be legal in Netherlands, but think you'll still find expensive try simulator
https://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/jsp-dgaiec/main.jsp, 

Simulator will work for you as well In 2 bikes give you an idea of cost, don't forget IVA to add to calculation see note on result page and here to work out IUC (road tax) Tabela Imposto Único Circulação (IUC) 2014 - Tabela Imposto Único de Circulação - Imposto Sobre Veículos e Imposto Único de Circulação


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

canoeman said:


> Rob as it's a Netherlands site ? then I don't see that CoC would be a problem as it would reguire CoC or equivalent to be legal in Netherlands, but think you'll still find expensive try simulator
> https://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/jsp-dgaiec/main.jsp,
> 
> Simulator will work for you as well In 2 bikes give you an idea of cost, don't forget IVA to add to calculation see note on result page and here to work out IUC (road tax) Tabela Imposto Único Circulação (IUC) 2014 - Tabela Imposto Único de Circulação - Imposto Sobre Veículos e Imposto Único de Circulação


Thanks Canoeman for the the simulator. I ran it and it suggested an import tax bill of 72 Euros ( then IVA VAT to add ). Just for info though...I originally ran the simulator in Google Chrome with auto translate switched on. It wouldn't work. So I ran the web page on Firefox and it worked fine. Road tax is much cheaper than the U.K. which is making up for the import tax. Yay !!!!!!!!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Should have also added in the Advantage of paying ISV is *you do not reguire* the costly statement from UK Embassy stating date you left UK

Lots of Portuguese sites that reguire "translating" for us to use won't work when information is needed to be entered when translators enabled, some work in another browser some don't another option is to load same onto another page one translated one not and flick between two or I generally open 2 browsers and have them side by side on screen.

Don't forget your other costs in matriculation MOT about 70€ + sound test which I think is 150+€, registration with IMTT, plates, registration with Conservatoria and if not using an agent cost of trips to Customs generally at Coast, IMTT are located in your Regional Capital, Conservatoria in your Camara Town

This is only contact I have for Decibel tests don't think theirs that many across country
http://translate.googleusercontent....s.html&usg=ALkJrhh8TV4-20ocTB4HOwdiI0d1iIwF0Q


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

CM do you know if it is legal and what it costs to scrap a car that we are not able to import. I will ask customs about the legality, but thought I would ask here. 
I may be that it is less than the cost and trouble of sending the car back to Canada and selling it. Wasteful in so many ways, but we are trying to minimize our loss.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Scrapyard might even buy it from you there are specific places that strip cars for reselling parts rather than just crushing.
Certificate is provided to prove car has been scrapped
As far as I know relates more to "overstayers" Custom give them a few options
Remove from country within a certain period, matriculate + fines or scrap


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks, I will check with Customs next week and look for a scrapyard.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

anapedrosa said:


> Thanks, I will check with Customs next week and look for a scrapyard.


Plenty of yards that strip cars on the IC2 south of Leiria.

HTH

Rob


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks Rob. I contacted one here near Caldas, they asked for pictures of the car and will tell me what they will offer for the car. 
This goes so against the grain, but in trying to minimize the cost, I have to be open to all options.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

Hi Ana

I know what you mean, it seems that I always find a better solution just after I have done it another way (usually more expensive!!)

Good Luck

Rob


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## VinhoVerde (May 2, 2014)

Oh dear, what a blow! Sorry to hear about that! And thank you too, for letting us know about it. Forewarned is forearmed and it is much appreciated.


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