# Employment Pass processing



## L S P

Hi Guys,
Needed some info. I am planning to relocate to Singapore. I have already succeeded in getting a job offer from an employer in Singapore. I have been given an Employment Pass / S Pass Application (Form 8) to be filled up by my employer. The form states that this would take 5 weeks for processing, is that the case, because the MOM website states that online applications take 1 week? So considering that this is a first time application what would be the processing time for the Employment Pass ? Moreover is it okay to fill this form hand written or is it mandatory to type it out.


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## beppi

The processing time differs greatly from case to case and can be anywhere from a few days to two months or so. It depends mostly on how many background checks MoM decides to do in your home or previous residence countries. Electronic applications are also processed faster than manual ones, thus if you are in a hurry, do not use the paper form!


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## L S P

Thanks for the info. The thing is that since the Company has provided me with a Form 8 to fill up, I'm not sure if the application is going to be done manually or online.


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## beppi

Then it's probably manual, but you should ask them (or suggest to do it electronically via EP Online).


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## Marie_mari

In my case the processing took several months because they required a clearance check for some reasons.


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## simonsays

Marie_mari said:


> In my case the processing took several months because they required a clearance check for some reasons.


Certain countries are subject to additional vetting.. And can take 2 months or so.

Beppi, there is no manual submission I think, all application now must be electronic


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## L S P

Thanks for the inputs guys. I think the best way for me to be certain is to ask the HR person itself. Simon, about the manual applications, the MOM website still has information pertaining to it, the process time being 5 weeks.


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## BBCWatcher

It's in your mutual interest for your employer to submit the application electronically. It's not at all hard for the employer to do that, truly.


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## L S P

Any inputs on the Medical Examination to be undergone for a FIRST TIME- Employment Pass/ S Pass applicant and if I can undergo this exam in the country of origin or do I have to do it in Singapore itself?


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## beppi

You have to take the medical exam in Singapore.


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## L S P

Thanks a ton beppi


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## simonsays

L S P said:


> Thanks a ton beppi


Adding on to what Beppi said.. sometimes you may not need to take the medical ... as seen for some country applicants


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## L S P

Would this depend on one's country of origin or type of pass viz.P1,P2 etc. Judging from the MOM site, I'm eligible for a P1 emp pass n I'm from India. So what would b my chances for the med exam. Frankly speaking it doesn't make much of a difference just wanted a heads up on all possible aspects before departing.


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## simonsays

L S P said:


> Would this depend on one's country of origin or type of pass viz.P1,P2 etc. Judging from the MOM site, I'm eligible for a P1 emp pass n I'm from India. So what would b my chances for the med exam. Frankly speaking it doesn't make much of a difference just wanted a heads up on all possible aspects before departing.


Pass has no relevance to medical and ... you maybe eligible for P1 but MOM may give you anything they feel proper .

Likewise for medical, again It's MOMs decision ... but coming from India you will be required to be screened for HIV and TB. I am 99.9% sure of that ...


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## beppi

The EP classes (P1, P2, Q) have been abolished a while ago.


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## simonsays

beppi said:


> The EP classes (P1, P2, Q) have been abolished a while ago.


You are right...

Though some third party / agency sites still claim otherwise 

http://beta.mom.gov.sg/passes-and-permits

Back to OP, between EP and SP again MOM makes that decision if the pay is on the borderline qualifying salary


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## L S P

Thanks a lot guys. I guess I'll just have to wait and watch.


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## L S P

Hi guys. My Company applied for my E-Pass and unfortunately the application got rejected. 

The MOM has given the following reason " The candidate's salary is significantly higher than the salary range posted in the job advertisement. Please post another advertisement for another 14 days and reflect the actual salary range to ensure fair consideration has been given to interested applicants. Then, if you still wish to employ this candidate after you have considered all applicants fairly, please tell us the new Job Posting ID". 

Its a fact that my present salary is much higher that what I have been offered. But at the same time , my present job is off-shore based where I work at sea for only 6 months a year and the offered job is shore based where I will be working 12 month a year. On basis of that, both my salaries are almost the same. 

Just wanted to know if anyone has come across a similar predicament and the solutions there of.


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## simonsays

L S P said:


> Hi guys. My Company applied for my E-Pass and unfortunately the application got rejected.
> 
> The MOM has given the following reason " The candidate's salary is significantly higher than the salary range posted in the job advertisement. Please post another advertisement for another 14 days and reflect the actual salary range to ensure fair consideration has been given to interested applicants. Then, if you still wish to employ this candidate after you have considered all applicants fairly, please tell us the new Job Posting ID".
> 
> Its a fact that my present salary is much higher that what I have been offered. But at the same time , my present job is off-shore based where I work at sea for only 6 months a year and the offered job is shore based where I will be working 12 month a year. On basis of that, both my salaries are almost the same.
> 
> Just wanted to know if anyone has come across a similar predicament and the solutions there of.


If your employer is ready to pay a salary higher than what was in the JobsBank, that, in MOM's eyes, in discrimination / favoritism for a specific FOREIGN candidate 

No, the job has to be advertised in the JobsBank before a new pass application can be submitted

If your case is strong, you can try an appeal, but nowadays appeals fail faster


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## L S P

Hi Simon,
Thanks for the response.* Does this mean that the salary the MOM is talking about is the salary posted in the initial advertisement by the company and has nothing to do with the salary that I have been drawing previously?* The company has informed me that they are going to re-post an advertisement again for 14 days. So i guess that if they don't find a suitable local candidate they may reconsider me and reapply for my pass. Just wanted to clarify that the salary the MOM is talking about is the salary posted in the initial advertisement by the company and has nothing to do with the salary that I have been drawing previously? Your response will b appreciated. Thank You.


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## simonsays

L S P said:


> Hi Simon,
> Thanks for the response. Does this mean that the salary the MOM is talking about is the salary posted in the initial advertisement by the company and has nothing to do with the salary that I have been drawing previously? The company has informed me that they are going to re-post an advertisement again for 14 days. So i guess that if they don't find a suitable local candidate they may reconsider me and reapply for my pass. Just wanted to clarify that the salary the MOM is talking about is the salary posted in the initial advertisement by the company and has nothing to do with the salary that I have been drawing previously? Your response will b appreciated. Thank You.


Mom will find it fishy, for example, if the ad says 5k salary but your pass says 10k, when in reality, if the ad had stated 10k, maybe more qualified locals may have applied, being the logic 

In other words the salary in the ad discouraged qualified locals from even trying.

Which is correct, as the Jobsbank rule was introduced to prevent unfair recruitment practices done by employers who preferred to employ foreigners and ignore suitability or better qualified locals, or in some cases, the hiring managers preferred candidates from their own country, creating bigger problems


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## beppi

LSP and Simonsays - You both are on the wrong track here:
The new "Fair consideration framework" requires a job to be unsuccessfully posted on the locals-only Jobs Bank for two weeks (with no suitable candidate), before the job can be given to a foreigner. No EP for the job will be given if this isn't done.
Now, your job was apparently posted on the Job Bank, but with a much lower salary, which might have deterred local applicants that would potentially have applied at the salary level they offered you in the end.
Thus, to fulfil the requirements, your company will have to post the job again there, with the salary you got offered, and can only employ you if there are still no suitable local applicants.

Edited to add: I just saw that Simonsays said the same in his second posting (which I didn't initially see).


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## simonsays

beppi said:


> .
> Edited to add: I just saw that Simonsays said the same in his second posting (which I didn't initially see).


I did say this in my first post 



simonsays said:


> If your employer is ready to pay a salary higher than what was in the JobsBank, that, in MOM's eyes, in discrimination / favoritism for a specific FOREIGN candidate




Back to OP, if your case was a one off incident, MOM will not dig too much into your employer and there hiring practice.

But if they have done it in the past, they gonna be looked at with a magnifying glass, reviewing all past hires too.


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## L S P

Thank You Beppi and Simon for all your inputs. I hope things work out for the best.


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## Varunkarwan

Hi, in my case the application and docs are submitted on 15th Dec 2015 and as on 4th Feb 2016 I ams waiting for primary approval. As learned from here it may take Upto 2 months to get a response if the manual application is being done which is my case. It's almost time and still no way forward. Upon asking my HR is replying that this is due to slow processing from govt end. To be frank I m becoming quite restless. Can anyone guide me what to do at the moment and how much chances are there for its rejection after such a long time? How much more time it may take to get all the picture clear?


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## BBCWatcher

Manual submission introduces some delay, yes, but at this point the most likely source of delay is in the additional vetting required to verify educational and professional credentials, especially for those coming from India and certain other countries that have high fraud rates. There's not much you can do except wait for the vetting to finish and to respond as quickly as you and your employer can, as well as you can, to any further questions that MoM poses. Your prospective employer can also make periodic inquiries with MoM to ask if they require any additional information, although such inquiries should not be too frequent. A simple "do you need anything else?" inquiry once per month is about right.


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## Varunkarwan

BBCWatcher said:


> Manual submission introduces some delay, yes, but at this point the most likely source of delay is in the additional vetting required to verify educational and professional credentials, especially for those coming from India and certain other countries that have high fraud rates. There's not much you can do except wait for the vetting to finish and to respond as quickly as you and your employer can, as well as you can, to any further questions that MoM poses. Your prospective employer can also make periodic inquiries with MoM to ask if they require any additional information, although such inquiries should not be too frequent. A simple "do you need anything else?" inquiry once per month is about right.


Hi BBC, thanks for the response. I got it. But as I understand there are still chances for its rejection? Also how long this all additional vetting may take?


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## BBCWatcher

The application hasn't been decided yet, so of course there's a chance of a rejection. There's also a chance of acceptance. A pending application is not a rejected application.

The additional vetting takes as long as it takes. MoM cannot force foreign academic institutions, professional associations, past employers, etc. -- or the agencies MoM hires to gather such information -- to respond any more quickly than they do (or don't). If MoM doesn't get a particular piece of information it seeks then, at some point only MoM knows, the vetting will "time out" and MoM will approve or reject the application based on the limited vetting information available at that time. If the missing information could have only cast doubt on the application, and the application otherwise looks fine, then the application will probably be approved. If the missing information was critical to supporting an approval, then the application will likely be rejected.

If it's any consolation MoM acts much more quickly on average than U.S. authorities in their H-1B visa and vetting process. You're still inside the original two month forecast, so there's nothing out of the ordinary yet.


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## Varunkarwan

Hi, I came to know from HR that my application is rejected and they will be filing an appeal. I am a bit confused what I can do from my side? and how much time it will take to get the appeal's outcome. What are its chances of approval now after one time rejection?


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## BBCWatcher

Did the Ministry of Manpower provide any explanation for their decision?


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## Varunkarwan

No the reason is not mentioned as told to me by HR. As for my particulars, I have 7 years experience in railway industry and that is what I was about to join in Singapore. I have an engineering batchlor degree. The offered package was if SGD6000. I am quite unable to find out the reason for rejection.


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## BBCWatcher

All you can really do then is let your prospective employer proceed as they wish -- which they're going to do (or not do) anyway. If your prospective employer cannot secure work permission for you then you won't be working for that employer in Singapore.

As a general matter, MoM can reject EP applications for several possible reasons. Here are some examples: doubts about the truthfulness of the application, concerns about the fixed monthly salary level (usually because it's too low), doubts about whether the local resident labor market has been given a fair opportunity to fill the position, an employer that's deemed to be employing too many foreign workers relative to their actual needs, concerns about whether the employer is choosing foreign workers based on ethnic or racial preferences (Indians hiring Indians, Italians hiring Italians, etc.), failure to supply adequate information to support the application, concerns about the applicant's past history (criminal history, past visa overstay, unresolved tax issue, previous denied application, etc.), or for some other reason(s). MoM sometimes explains why it rejected an application but has no obligation to do so.

Appeals are not generally successful unless some substantial new information comes to light, i.e. unless the underlying facts change in a material way.


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## Varunkarwan

Hi. Thank you so much for the details. Its really helpful. I received today a mail from by Manager-To-Be about the reason of rejection. MoM had quoted mainly 2 reasons:

1) The company which is hiring me is a French company currently in joint venture with a Singapore company. They are using the resources (including manpower) commonly. However during evaluation MoM had not considered Joint venture in place and treated the French company as a separate entity. Now it has at the moment only 5-6 white collars (most of them foreigners) and the blue collars are from sister company, though they are from Singapore, but not considered. Hence the Local/Foreigner ratio is creating issues.

2) MoM indicated that the Basic salary considering my experience and age (I am 28, Single) is quite high compared to market value and the overall salary structure have high fixed salary percentage as compared to variable salary (ex. Bonuses)

Any suggestions/guidelines for tackling this? Anything from my side?
Also they are submitting an appeal.


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## BBCWatcher

Point #1 can be addressed if the "correct" corporate entity makes the application. That's your prospective employer's mistake and theirs to correct. Note however that fixing this problem could mean the position must first be advertised in Jobs Bank so that local resident workers are given the first chances to take the position ahead of you.

Point #2 is quite odd. Are you sure you don't have it backwards? MoM sometimes expresses concerns that fixed monthly salaries are _too low_, but it's less common they'll question in the other direction. I would have concerns your prospective employer is misleading you on that point, especially if you're coming across as desperate for this post.


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## Varunkarwan

Hi, its quite long time since the things moved on negative side. As I told earlier my e-pass was rejected and in last post I quoted the reasons. HR as well as my manager-to-be both told me saperatly that they are filing an appeal. The last communication from their side was on 19th of February, one week after my e-pass rejection. However since then there is no update. I tried to contact them through mail but got no response. Since it's almost one and a half month, I am a bit doubtful that they have even submitted the appeal? Or do I have to just accept that this is a lost opportunity? The company website (French company) which was showing the job posted still do not any longer showing it and this is since I got selected. However there is a similar job posted on its Joint venture company( Singaporean company) since last month. I am all but confused what to do and what is happening. Please guide.


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## BBCWatcher

Varunkarwan said:


> Or do I have to just accept that this is a lost opportunity?


Yes, I think so. Or the opportunity never actually existed. (It's theoretically _possible_ the employer was just testing MoM.) You've provided all the documents the Ministry of Manpower needed to make a pass decision (I assume), and you have no unresolved requests from the company or from MoM for anything further (I also assume). It's your prospective employer's job to appeal or to refile under a different corporate entity. You don't control their actions or inactions.


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## natali-new

Varunkarwan said:


> Hi, its quite long time since the things moved on negative side. As I told earlier my e-pass was rejected and in last post I quoted the reasons. HR as well as my manager-to-be both told me saperatly that they are filing an appeal. The last communication from their side was on 19th of February, one week after my e-pass rejection. However since then there is no update. I tried to contact them through mail but got no response. Since it's almost one and a half month, I am a bit doubtful that they have even submitted the appeal? Or do I have to just accept that this is a lost opportunity? The company website (French company) which was showing the job posted still do not any longer showing it and this is since I got selected. However there is a similar job posted on its Joint venture company( Singaporean company) since last month. I am all but confused what to do and what is happening. Please guide.



Hi, please kindly advise what is the status of your request. Have you got permission to work?


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## simonsays

natali-new said:


> Hi, please kindly advise what is the status of your request. Have you got permission to work?


If I was allowed to bet, 95% or more likely, the appeal failed.

MOM has reduced the number of applicants that succeed on appeal.


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## BBCWatcher

simonsays said:


> If I was allowed to bet, 95% or more likely, the appeal failed.


Or neither employing entity even took any action (appeal or refile).


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## DaveStark

Hello! There is always a chance of failure, then getting EP will take exactly more than one week.


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## DaveStark

Obtaining EP usually takes longer. Actually, it depends on the specific case. EP processing time as per 2019 takes 21 days. It can get approved before as well


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## DaveStark

Varunkarwan said:


> Hi. Thank you so much for the details. Its really helpful. I received today a mail from by Manager-To-Be about the reason of rejection. MoM had quoted mainly 2 reasons:
> 
> 1) The company which is hiring me is a French company currently in joint venture with a Singapore company. They are using the resources (including manpower) commonly. However during evaluation MoM had not considered Joint venture in place and treated the French company as a separate entity. Now it has at the moment only 5-6 white collars (most of them foreigners) and the blue collars are from sister company, though they are from Singapore, but not considered. Hence the Local/Foreigner ratio is creating issues.
> 
> 2) MoM indicated that the Basic salary considering my experience and age (I am 28, Single) is quite high compared to market value and the overall salary structure have high fixed salary percentage as compared to variable salary (ex. Bonuses)
> 
> Any suggestions/guidelines for tackling this? Anything from my side?
> Also they are submitting an appeal.


If MoM reports that there are moments in the employing company that do not meet the requirements, your organization should solve theproblem. Unfortunately, you can’t do anything in this situation. More details about MoM requirements can be found here https://osome.com/sg/term/mom/.


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