# Citizenship through marriage



## celavie77

I'm soon to be married to a wonderful Italian national, and we'd like to get married in Italy. My fiance, though, proposed that we stay in Italy for another 6 months so I could get Italian citizenship, and then in his words "you'd finally be an EU citizen and we could live and die in Europe together my darling!" He makes it sound much more romantic than that though.

But I imagine it's more complicated than that. So then, hypothetically, if we did get married in Italy, could I apply for a spouse visa to stay in Italy for 6 more months and then apply for citizenship? Or would that not count as "legal residence" since it's temporary? And is it as easy/quick as it sounds? I could certainly spare 6-8 months since my job is work at home, but much longer than that wouldn't be feasible, so if the spouse visa takes two months to come it might not be a realistic thing to do.

Any help would be much appreciated!


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## Joppa

celavie77 said:


> I'm soon to be married to a wonderful Italian national, and we'd like to get married in Italy. My fiance, though, proposed that we stay in Italy for another 6 months so I could get Italian citizenship, and then in his words "you'd finally be an EU citizen and we could live and die in Europe together my darling!" He makes it sound much more romantic than that though.
> 
> But I imagine it's more complicated than that. So then, hypothetically, if we did get married in Italy, could I apply for a spouse visa to stay in Italy for 6 more months and then apply for citizenship? Or would that not count as "legal residence" since it's temporary? And is it as easy/quick as it sounds? I could certainly spare 6-8 months since my job is work at home, but much longer than that wouldn't be feasible, so if the spouse visa takes two months to come it might not be a realistic thing to do.


_Ways to become an Italian citizen

2. Marriage to an Italian citizen; 
The requirements include:
legal residence in Italy for at least 6 months after marriage or 3 years of matrimony if residing abroad; 
valid marriage certificate; 
absence of criminal record; 
absence of impediments associated with national security. 

Applications for citizenship are to be addressed to the Ministry of the Interior and presented to the Prefecture in the Province of residence, if residing in Italy, or the diplomatic-consular authorities if residing abroad. _
(From Italian Embassy Washington DC site)

So you are basically correct. Since under Schengen rule you can only stay in Italy for 90 days, you need to apply for a spouse visa or residence permit for 6 months before you can apply for citizenship. Being Italy, don't expect things to move quickly and you'll be kept waiting for many months before you hear anything.


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## celavie77

Joppa said:


> _Ways to become an Italian citizen
> 
> 2. Marriage to an Italian citizen;
> The requirements include:
> legal residence in Italy for at least 6 months after marriage or 3 years of matrimony if residing abroad;
> valid marriage certificate;
> absence of criminal record;
> absence of impediments associated with national security.
> 
> Applications for citizenship are to be addressed to the Ministry of the Interior and presented to the Prefecture in the Province of residence, if residing in Italy, or the diplomatic-consular authorities if residing abroad. _
> (From Italian Embassy Washington DC site)
> 
> So you are basically correct. Since under Schengen rule you can only stay in Italy for 90 days, you need to apply for a spouse visa or residence permit for 6 months before you can apply for citizenship. Being Italy, don't expect things to move quickly and you'll be kept waiting for many months before you hear anything.


Thanks for the response! But, do you, or does anyone, have any idea for a time estimate of how long the wait for things might be? Would it take like, months for the spouse visa to be processed and issued, or do you mean that it would be months before I hear anything after applying for citizenship after the 6 months? If it takes months to get the spouse visa, would I have to leave if I don't get it within 90 days? And after the six or so months, would I have to stay in Italy to seek citizenship, or could I leave and apply from abroad? Oh, and would I have to file a sort of intent to seek citizenship; I think in some places you have to register your residence for the purposes of tracking it to prove that you've lived in the country for the proper amount of time.

Wow, so many questions! I'm sorry! You know, I actually had no idea that Italy had a reputation for red tape or slowness. I thought that was only France!


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## Joppa

celavie77 said:


> Thanks for the response! But, do you, or does anyone, have any idea for a time estimate of how long the wait for things might be? Would it take like, months for the spouse visa to be processed and issued, or do you mean that it would be months before I hear anything after applying for citizenship after the 6 months? If it takes months to get the spouse visa, would I have to leave if I don't get it within 90 days? And after the six or so months, would I have to stay in Italy to seek citizenship, or could I leave and apply from abroad? Oh, and would I have to file a sort of intent to seek citizenship; I think in some places you have to register your residence for the purposes of tracking it to prove that you've lived in the country for the proper amount of time.
> 
> Wow, so many questions! I'm sorry! You know, I actually had no idea that Italy had a reputation for red tape or slowness. I thought that was only France!


Don't know about the specifics for Italy, but normally, provided your application is in the 'system', you are allowed to stay in the country until your case is decided. I think your spouse visa should come through pretty quickly, but you will probably made to wait months before you hear anything about your citizenship application.


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## celavie77

Thanks guys!!

On another note, the four witnesses we need...do they need to be people who know U.S./British law? I'm a U.S. citizen and UK resident, and I think the witnesses are there to prove there's no legal barrier, as far as they know, to your marriage. But do witnesses have to be people you know really well, too, or is it a formality? Could I borrow people my husband knows as my witnesses? Could I use a random person on the street lol? 

Any help would be SO appreciated!


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## Lourdes

*Italy = lots of red tape *

Ciao Celavie,

I hope I can be able to give you some info about the marriage procedure as I am a US citizen married to an Italian citizen now living in Florence, and we got married just outside of Florence. I don't have citizenship yet, it is a procedure I've not had the courage to start but I suppose it will be something to do over the next few months.

*US Citizens Getting Married in Italy*
Read the info found on the US in Italy embassy website for US citizens getting married in Italy at italy.usembassy.gov/acs/marriage/marriage-florence.html

You need the "nulla osta" from the consulate closest to where you are getting married and the "atto notorio" at the Italian consulate in the UK before you head to Italy, it is too complex a procedure to get it done here in the few days before the wedding. To get the nulla osta I think you'd better plan to arrive a week before the wedding, since you need to do that on a Tuesday or Thursday and then present all of the documents at least 3 days prior to the wedding.

Of course, this whole procedure is for getting legally married in Italy - if instead you just want a symbolic ceremony, you can skip all this but you'd still have to go through the procedure to get married back in the UK. 

The four witnesses need to at least understand Italian because they are asked to bear witness on the marriage - "the no legal barrier to the marriage" is confirmed through the documents you need to get (nulla osta and atto notorio). It doesn't matter whether they are your husband's friends or yours, or if just acquaintances - you theoretically could get someone off the street LOL 

*Now as far as citizenship goes.....*
You don't need a spouse visa to get married in Italy. You can just come and get married under the temporary tourist visa (I did). But then you have to wait for the marriage to be registered in the _comune_ (the smaller it is, the faster it will happen) and then once you have copies of your marriage certificate you can go to the Questura and request a "Permesso di Soggiorno" for marriage reasons - which you do need if you intend to stay in Italy longer than 3 months. 

I can confirm personally that Italy has a lot of red tape and things do not move quickly. So if you can't stay in Italy for at least the 6 months of residency (starts after you've got your _permesso_ in your hands and with that you're registered as a resident in the comune - so think more like 8-10 months total from wedding date), then just consider that you can live in the UK and after 3 years of marriage you can request citizenship at the Italian embassy/consulates in the UK.


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## celavie77

Lourdes said:


> Ciao Celavie,
> 
> I hope I can be able to give you some info about the marriage procedure as I am a US citizen married to an Italian citizen now living in Florence, and we got married just outside of Florence. I don't have citizenship yet, it is a procedure I've not had the courage to start but I suppose it will be something to do over the next few months.
> 
> *US Citizens Getting Married in Italy*
> Read the info found on the US in Italy embassy website for US citizens getting married in Italy at italy.usembassy.gov/acs/marriage/marriage-florence.html
> 
> You need the "nulla osta" from the consulate closest to where you are getting married and the "atto notorio" at the Italian consulate in the UK before you head to Italy, it is too complex a procedure to get it done here in the few days before the wedding. To get the nulla osta I think you'd better plan to arrive a week before the wedding, since you need to do that on a Tuesday or Thursday and then present all of the documents at least 3 days prior to the wedding.
> 
> Of course, this whole procedure is for getting legally married in Italy - if instead you just want a symbolic ceremony, you can skip all this but you'd still have to go through the procedure to get married back in the UK.
> 
> The four witnesses need to at least understand Italian because they are asked to bear witness on the marriage - "the no legal barrier to the marriage" is confirmed through the documents you need to get (nulla osta and atto notorio). It doesn't matter whether they are your husband's friends or yours, or if just acquaintances - you theoretically could get someone off the street LOL
> 
> *Now as far as citizenship goes.....*
> You don't need a spouse visa to get married in Italy. You can just come and get married under the temporary tourist visa (I did). But then you have to wait for the marriage to be registered in the _comune_ (the smaller it is, the faster it will happen) and then once you have copies of your marriage certificate you can go to the Questura and request a "Permesso di Soggiorno" for marriage reasons - which you do need if you intend to stay in Italy longer than 3 months.
> 
> I can confirm personally that Italy has a lot of red tape and things do not move quickly. So if you can't stay in Italy for at least the 6 months of residency (starts after you've got your _permesso_ in your hands and with that you're registered as a resident in the comune - so think more like 8-10 months total from wedding date), then just consider that you can live in the UK and after 3 years of marriage you can request citizenship at the Italian embassy/consulates in the UK.


WOW you're SO helpful! Thank you so much! That link is also really helpful!

I think that it would be more convenient for us to get the Atto Notorio in Italy, because we plan to roam around and have some fun there and visit friends and family before the wedding anyway. I'm just worried about that "few weeks" that I'd apparently have to wait for it...

And what was your experience with translating your documents? It says "Any documents issued outside of Italy must be translated into Italian and authenticated by the nearest Italian Consulate having jurisdiction over the place of issuance in the U.S. before they can have any legal validity before Italian authorities" but does that mean I'm gonna have to go back to the state in the U.S. that I was born, find a consulate, and then have them translate my birth certificate?! That's quite a hassle! And that was the only document - the birth certificate, I mean - that you needed from the U.S. right?

I guess the truth is we haven't really set a firm date on the wedding, and we're kind of wondering if we could do it on the fly while we're traveling there next month. So, do you think we'd be able to do all these requirements while in Italy, and in less than say a month, so that I don't go over my 90 day stay? Probably a crazy question right, haha? I guess we'd like to have a certain touch of impulsiveness to our getting married. 

On the U.S. State Department website it says you need to get a formal declaration for a U.S. consulate in Italy officially declaring that you are essentially single, and that that reduces the time to get the marriage license to four days. That's just the Nulla Osta right? OH and what was your experience with posting the bans at the local city hall for the two consecutive Sundays? There probably isn't any leeway to have the bans waived if one of the people getting married is Italian is there?

Again, thanks SO much! You're wonderful.


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## joantovar

celavie77 said:


> WOW you're SO helpful! Thank you so much! That link is also really helpful!
> 
> I think that it would be more convenient for us to get the Atto Notorio in Italy, because we plan to roam around and have some fun there and visit friends and family before the wedding anyway. I'm just worried about that "few weeks" that I'd apparently have to wait for it...
> 
> And what was your experience with translating your documents? It says "Any documents issued outside of Italy must be translated into Italian and authenticated by the nearest Italian Consulate having jurisdiction over the place of issuance in the U.S. before they can have any legal validity before Italian authorities" but does that mean I'm gonna have to go back to the state in the U.S. that I was born, find a consulate, and then have them translate my birth certificate?! That's quite a hassle! And that was the only document - the birth certificate, I mean - that you needed from the U.S. right?
> 
> I guess the truth is we haven't really set a firm date on the wedding, and we're kind of wondering if we could do it on the fly while we're traveling there next month. So, do you think we'd be able to do all these requirements while in Italy, and in less than say a month, so that I don't go over my 90 day stay? Probably a crazy question right, haha? I guess we'd like to have a certain touch of impulsiveness to our getting married.
> 
> On the U.S. State Department website it says you need to get a formal declaration for a U.S. consulate in Italy officially declaring that you are essentially single, and that that reduces the time to get the marriage license to four days. That's just the Nulla Osta right? OH and what was your experience with posting the bans at the local city hall for the two consecutive Sundays? There probably isn't any leeway to have the bans waived if one of the people getting married is Italian is there?
> 
> Again, thanks SO much! You're wonderful.


Im staring to gather info about all this process too since im getting ready to marry my US fiance next year any ideas or info will be greatly appreciated thanks She live in the US and im Italian living in the UK but planing to move marry and live in Italy once marry :confused2:


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## celavie77

joantovar said:


> Im staring to gather info about all this process too since im getting ready to marry my US fiance next year any ideas or info will be greatly appreciated thanks She live in the US and im Italian living in the UK but planing to move marry and live in Italy once marry :confused2:


OMG maybe we can help each other out. What are you doing for translating documents?


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## joantovar

celavie77 said:


> OMG maybe we can help each other out. What are you doing for translating documents?


I haven't starter yet I'm going to The Italian embassy this Thursday to find out what documents she needs. Since I just started searching for all this u are right we can help each other out but first it will be nice for us to be on the same page on all this so any info u already know will be greatly appreciated.


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## celavie77

joantovar said:


> I haven't starter yet I'm going to The Italian embassy this Thursday to find out what documents she needs. Since I just started searching for all this u are right we can help each other out but first it will be nice for us to be on the same page on all this so any info u already know will be greatly appreciated.


I only know as much as has been posted in this thread so far, including everything in the links posted.

I think the only thing I don't know is if I can get all my documents translated in Italy.


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## joantovar

celavie77 said:


> I only know as much as has been posted in this thread so far, including everything in the links posted.
> 
> I think the only thing I don't know is if I can get all my documents translated in Italy.


Where do u live?


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## celavie77

joantovar said:


> Where do u live?


London.

When you get to the translating part of things do tell what you do!


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## joantovar

celavie77 said:


> London.
> 
> When you get to the translating part of things do tell what you do!


Ok cool I live in east Putney, I'm going to the embassy on thursday I will ask where to get the document translated it will be nice to keep in touch here in my number 0742 six 8 six 27 zero one


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## Guest

celavie77 said:


> Thanks for the response! But, do you, or does anyone, have any idea for a time estimate of how long the wait for things might be? Would it take like, months for the spouse visa to be processed and issued, or do you mean that it would be months before I hear anything after applying for citizenship after the 6 months? If it takes months to get the spouse visa, would I have to leave if I don't get it within 90 days? And after the six or so months, would I have to stay in Italy to seek citizenship, or could I leave and apply from abroad? Oh, and would I have to file a sort of intent to seek citizenship; I think in some places you have to register your residence for the purposes of tracking it to prove that you've lived in the country for the proper amount of time.
> 
> Wow, so many questions! I'm sorry! You know, I actually had no idea that Italy had a reputation for red tape or slowness. I thought that was only France!


I'm sorry if this response is a bit late. I can't offer any advice re visas or such, just anecdotal evidence about obtaining citizenship through residence in Italy versus abroad.

My girlfriend's good friend married an Italian last year in Rome and moved there and was already an Italian citizen under a year. I don't know the exact date on the months and wait time, but it was definitely under a year from marriage to when I met her a couple of months ago for the first time. 

This can be compared with filing to marry after (I think now 3 year's residency abroad?). Some of my relatives who have lived abroad with their spouses for years (I'm talking decades so the 3 year marriage requirement is now irrelevant) sent their paperwork a year ago and still haven't heard anything. 

If you want to obtain citizenship quickly and can shift your plans around towards a reasonable expectation of living in Italy for a year (think a year, not six months!), then I definitely recommend doing it that way. But if you're not in a hurry and aren't dying for citizenship, the other way works as well, but you'll probably have to wait around 5 years after you marry (combination of required marriage time and application processing time)...

Of course, if your Italian spouse lives with you in the UK then you'll never need to worry about a visa to stay there. How long have you lived in the UK? If you want an EU citizenship it would probably be quicker to just wait until you get permanent residency and apply for UK citizenship. Much quicker and less bureaucracy involved. Take it from a pro, the less you interact with Italian bureaucracy the happier you will be!


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## Guest

Another consideration that I forgot to mention - Most Italian women do not take their husband's name when they marry. My mom, who is not Italian, obtained Italian citizenship automatically since she married my dad before 1983 (Yes, it used to be automatic). She has passports in different names since Italy wouldn't recognise anything other than her maiden name. I _think_ they may have passed a law recently that offers some flexibility about this issue, but best to contact the consulate directly to find out how that works nowadays.


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## celavie77

Okay I just read somewhere that hearing back for citizenship in France can take up to 18 months. PLEASE can someone assure me that's not the case in Italy?! Does anyone have experience with this? How long did it take for you to get your citizenship decision if you have?


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## Lourdes

I've actually heard it is taking up to 24 months in Italy but I cannot answer based on personal experience as I've not asked for citizenship through marriage yet.

You should go through a lot of the info found on Expats in Italy since it is especially dedicated to living in Italy. I am sure you'll find more details on there about how long it can take up. Under a year sounds incredible, maybe in Rome they've instituted some policy to speed up the process and get rid of backlog.

As Don Pomodoro said, when you get married in Italy, administratively on your documents you'll appear with your maiden name and then somewhere it will say who you are married to (your married name). The policy is to avoid any confusion between name changes in your lifetime, they want to make sure that before and after marriage you are the same person! All documents need to match, from your birth certificate to your ID to your passport. There has been no change in this, so if you've ever been married in the past and taken your husbands name, it is super important to show your divorce papers to show your name BEFORE you changed your name (unless you went back to your maiden name after the divorce). 

Did you know that in the US it is NOT REQUIRED by LAW to take your husband's name at marriage? That is a SOCIAL NORM imposed by our society, that everyone has come to expect even in today's modern age -- but it definitely is not LAW as some people seem to think it is!! 
In Italy they have just gone to the opposite extreme, they won't let you change your name even if you wanted to  I personally like it that I never had to explain to anyone at all my choice to keep the name I've had my whole life because it is totally normal here


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## celavie77

DonPomodoro said:


> I'm sorry if this response is a bit late. I can't offer any advice re visas or such, just anecdotal evidence about obtaining citizenship through residence in Italy versus abroad.
> 
> My girlfriend's good friend married an Italian last year in Rome and moved there and was already an Italian citizen under a year. I don't know the exact date on the months and wait time, but it was definitely under a year from marriage to when I met her a couple of months ago for the first time.
> 
> This can be compared with filing to marry after (I think now 3 year's residency abroad?). Some of my relatives who have lived abroad with their spouses for years (I'm talking decades so the 3 year marriage requirement is now irrelevant) sent their paperwork a year ago and still haven't heard anything.
> 
> If you want to obtain citizenship quickly and can shift your plans around towards a reasonable expectation of living in Italy for a year (think a year, not six months!), then I definitely recommend doing it that way. But if you're not in a hurry and aren't dying for citizenship, the other way works as well, but you'll probably have to wait around 5 years after you marry (combination of required marriage time and application processing time)...
> 
> Of course, if your Italian spouse lives with you in the UK then you'll never need to worry about a visa to stay there. How long have you lived in the UK? If you want an EU citizenship it would probably be quicker to just wait until you get permanent residency and apply for UK citizenship. Much quicker and less bureaucracy involved. Take it from a pro, the less you interact with Italian bureaucracy the happier you will be!


Last year? When exactly?

Unfortunately, I just looked it up and it looks like the law has changed and spouses of Italians have to wait 2 years now if residing in italy! Ahhhh! I guess it was quite the privilege for it to be 6 months after all.


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## Michael Boni

Hello


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## Vallecamonica

celavie77 said:


> Thanks for the response! But, do you, or does anyone, have any idea for a time estimate of how long the wait for things might be? Would it take like, months for the spouse visa to be processed and issued, or do you mean that it would be months before I hear anything after applying for citizenship after the 6 months? If it takes months to get the spouse visa, would I have to leave if I don't get it within 90 days? And after the six or so months, would I have to stay in Italy to seek citizenship, or could I leave and apply from abroad? Oh, and would I have to file a sort of intent to seek citizenship; I think in some places you have to register your residence for the purposes of tracking it to prove that you've lived in the country for the proper amount of time.
> 
> Wow, so many questions! I'm sorry! You know, I actually had no idea that Italy had a reputation for red tape or slowness. I thought that was only France!


Hi celavie77,
I know it's a bit late, I just want to sharing my experience.
I am Indonesian married with Italian. We married in Thailand. After we decided to move back to Italy (we were working in private yacht). they give me 1 year for the visa(now, I know why), because soon when arrived we have to go to questura (in brescia) for apply the permesso soggiorno. we arrived on June, and we applied it on July. 
The questura are disaster,sorry but it's true. Long queue and less employee(sometimes they take a break). If you didn't bring the right documents, you have to come back in the next day with the same disaster 
My permesso soggiorno finally arrived on October (thanks to my boss who helped me, if not I don't know when will be finished)
on October 2011, I apply a new permesso soggiorno, I don't know when I can get it. Can you imagine????
For the citizenship, we asked about it. They (my comune)said, we need to stay in Italy for 2 years, or if you have a baby, which is I do now, only 1 year. before to apply, we need to apply for Carta soggiorno (different with permesso soggiorno).
But if you want to apply carta soggiorno, don't apply permesso soggiorno. Because you can't (my experience once again.)
I think that's all.
Hope my experience help you.


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## stefano1952

celavie77 said:


> I'm soon to be married to a wonderful Italian national, and we'd like to get married in Italy. My fiance, though, proposed that we stay in Italy for another 6 months so I could get Italian citizenship, and then in his words "you'd finally be an EU citizen and we could live and die in Europe together my darling!" He makes it sound much more romantic than that though.
> 
> But I imagine it's more complicated than that. So then, hypothetically, if we did get married in Italy, could I apply for a spouse visa to stay in Italy for 6 more months and then apply for citizenship? Or would that not count as "legal residence" since it's temporary? And is it as easy/quick as it sounds? I could certainly spare 6-8 months since my job is work at home, but much longer than that wouldn't be feasible, so if the spouse visa takes two months to come it might not be a realistic thing to do.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated!


Hi,
I am an Italian Citizen, as I was born there, but my wife is now an Italian Citizen because she is married to me. From our experiance, you have to be married at least 2 years before becoming elgiable for Italian/EU cittizenship, unless things have changed in the last couple of years.
Of course it might be different if you are already residing in Italy.
Hope this helps


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