# Athens Ark



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Children are being abandoned on Greece's streets by their poverty-stricken families who cannot afford to look after them any more.
Youngsters are being dumped by their parents who are struggling to make ends meet in what is fast becoming the most tragic human consequence of the Euro crisis.
It comes as pharmacists revealed the country had almost run out of aspirin, as multi-billion euro austerity measures filter their way through society.


Athens' Ark of the World youth centre said four children, including a newborn baby, had been left on its doorstep in recent months.
One mother, it said, ran away after handing over her two-year-old daughter Natasha.
Four-year-old Anna was found by a teacher clutching a note that read: 'I will not be coming to pick up Anna today because I cannot afford to look after her. Please take good care of her. Sorry


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

It's very sad that some families are experiencing such poverty. Greece doesn't have the kind of safety net that some other countries (like the US and maybe the UK) have - like a "food stamp" type program, or homeless shelters. It's still exceptionally rare for something like this to happen - far more rare than where I grew up in the USA - but it's still horrible. A family in my town recently became homeless and they have a baby. They - with the baby - are on the street. It may be better for the baby to be given up for adoption, who knows. Obviously there is no excuse or explanation for just abandoning a child with a note. Orphanages in Greece have reported that they are now receiving children with living parents, which was not really the case in the past.

(We're out of aspirin AGAIN? That keeps happening. It has to do with the supply system, I think, and not the economic crisis. Last year my mother who takes a LOT of aspirin had to practically beg at pharmacies. Very annoying, but aspirin is dirt cheap and not covered by state insurance so there's no reason for the economic crisis to affect it - of course if I'm wrong, please correct me.)


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I was reading that the government heavily subsidise medicines etc, so much so that pharmacist are selling their supplies to outside the country and therefore make some money but of course it means there are no basic medicines left for the pollution of the country.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Maybe... but aspirin costs more in a Greek pharmacy than in an American pharmacy on a per-milligram basis. So if that were true, American pharmacies shouldn't have any aspirin either. A box of aspirin is only around 72 cents but you only get a few tablets. I can get hundreds of tablets for a few dollars in the US. I really can't explain it - I did ask pharmacists for an explanation last year and the only thing I could get out of them was that there was a "rationing system" in place, whatever that means!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

wka said:


> Maybe... but aspirin costs more in a Greek pharmacy than in an American pharmacy on a per-milligram basis. So if that were true, American pharmacies shouldn't have any aspirin either. A box of aspirin is only around 72 cents but you only get a few tablets. I can get hundreds of tablets for a few dollars in the US. I really can't explain it - I did ask pharmacists for an explanation last year and the only thing I could get out of them was that there was a "rationing system" in place, whatever that means!





but who would American pharmacies sell to? Greek pharmacist can sell all over Europe without any problem..pack a suitcase with the most expensive drugs and head for another European market.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

You don't really mean pharmacies, right? You mean Greek drug companies? Greek pharmacies are not chains, they are 99% of the time "very small businesses," one pharmacist with maybe 1-3 assistants. I think it's much more likely that Greek pharmaceutical companies would be doing that.

Either way, the aspirin sold in Greece is Bayer and is produced in Germany, I just checked. (Although I suppose we do produce aspirin also... I just happen to have the Germany kind??)


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

wka said:


> You don't really mean pharmacies, right? You mean Greek drug companies? Greek pharmacies are not chains, they are 99% of the time "very small businesses," one pharmacist with maybe 1-3 assistants. I think it's much more likely that Greek pharmaceutical companies would be doing that.
> 
> Either way, the aspirin sold in Greece is Bayer and is produced in Germany, I just checked. (Although I suppose we do produce aspirin also... I just happen to have the Germany kind??)




just trying to find the orginal article but pretty certain it said pharmacies..
Yes that would make sense.. the Greek government heavily subsidise aspirin from Germany may make it cheaper for a pharmacy in Germany to buy from another pharmacy in Greece.
Medicine is heavily subsidised in Egypt and I have to put my hands up to buying up drugs for my family before heading home.. I suspect most of my fellow expats who live in countries were medicines are expensive do the same.

Last year two English men in Spain were fined for selling medicines that they had bought up in England as they were much cheaper than the counterparts on the Spanish market.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> just trying to find the orginal article but pretty certain it said pharmacies..
> Yes that would make sense.. the Greek government heavily subsidise aspirin from Germany may make it cheaper for a pharmacy in Germany to buy from another pharmacy in Greece.
> Medicine is heavily subsidised in Egypt and I have to put my hands up to buying up drugs for my family before heading home.. I suspect most of my fellow expats who live in countries were medicines are expensive do the same.
> 
> Last year two English men in Spain were fined for selling medicines that they had bought up in England as they were much cheaper than the counterparts on the Spanish market.


Children 'dumped in streets by Greek parents who can't afford them' | Mail Online

or if you don't like the Mail

Euro crisis: Greek Children ‘dumped in streets by parents | Ya Libnan | World News Live from Lebanon


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

I just looked in the news here and yes, it is being reported as pharmaceutical companies in the Greek media, not pharmacies, so that will be down to the individual source I suppose. Apparently aspirin is cheap in Greece compared to other western European countries! I'm really shocked by that - I can get 1000 tablets for just a few dollars in the US. I'm impressed now - I always thought that drugs were less expensive in Greece than in the US - like you say with Egypt, I have generally been happy with drug prices here. 

I've been more affected by the fact that many drugs that are available in the US aren't sold here, and vice versa. Then you sometimes don't even care what they cost!

From an article in today's paper, my quick translation, they are not extremely clear but it seems to be saying that the Greek pharmaceutical companies are selling it outside the country, despite laws to the contrary:

"... The lack of aspirin has been noted for many months ... throughout [Greece]. Aspirin, considered the 'drug of the century,' is also produced in Greece. The Bayer secret recipe from Munich is used [...] which makes the scarcity seem even more strange. Those in the know explain its disappearance from pharmacy shelves by its being so cheap. Aspirin is considered an excellent antipyretic, it has strong analgesis and anti-inflammatory action, and in recent yeas has been used in the prevention of cardiac and stroke episodes and furthermore there are indications that it protects against several forms of cancer. And yet a box of 20 tablets costs €0.70 on the market. Despite the inflationary times, its price has a remarkable stability. In Albania for example it is sold for twice that price, almost €1.50, and in other western European countries it can cost up to 5 times as much. Thus, despite the legal obligation of pharmaceutical companies to keep a three months' supply in the country, nevertheless the drug is emigrating and users are bribing their pharmacists for a supply. "


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Xabiachica, that article was in the Kathimerini a few weeks ago and made a bit of a splash here in Greece. I'm not surprised at all that it found its way to the international media. 

The Greek media has been on a humanitarian kick lately - the most shocking one to me was a few weeks ago they had an interview on the morning news (quite extensive, usually they're quite short on the morning news) with a man who had become homeless, and he was giving advice on how to choose a good bench for sleeping on, what sort of things to do to avoid violence, how to find food, strategies for washing oneself and one's clothes, finding a bathroom, and so on. It was presented as "we are giving this advice to our viewers in case they need them". Definitely a first to my knowledge. (To those who know Greek TV, it was on MEGA, one of the largest non-gov't channels.)

Similarly, SKAI, another non-gov't channel, has partnered with the Church in setting up food drives in many supermarkets around the country, in order to gather food for the soup kitchens in Athens. Personally I find their commercials and spots on the news atrocious, considering the insane markup on food at consumer supermarkets and how much money the Church has (despite their claims). If I go to AB Basilopoulos and spend €50 on non-perishable food, it will feed 10 people for 10 days. If they go to Metro Cash and Carry (where private individuals cannot shop) and spend €50, it will feed 100 people for 10 days. I'd much rather give locally here in our town where we do have homeless families, but that's just me. Apparently the food drives are wildly popular, so people must believe the Church needs their help.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Antibiotics are not available over the counter in the U.K but are to an extent in most European countries. 

I use Imigran for my migraine headaches at a cost of LE 14 which works out about 1euro yet to buy the same product in Spain costs me 17euros!!! enough to bring another headache on.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

I just checked - we do have Imigran here. For 4 tablets (50mg each), you pay €10.01. I can't tell if that's a good deal cause I don't know if the price you were quoting was per tablet or per box. 

They don't sell 2 medicines that I regularly used in the US. I have to import them - since its for personal use, I've never had a problem, but I'm sure if I tried to bring in 20 boxes, they'd say something!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Is this crisis due to the Euro or is it due to Greece?

Greece was always my preferred holiday and I would sometimes visit the islands three times a year. I was very comfortable in monetary terms so the costs of meals etc did not really affect me but I know friends who went year after year because the exchange rate with the Drachma was to their advantage but now no longer go as the basic costs of having a meal out with the family have shot up and out of their reach.
The same thing is happening here in Egypt.. I am now expected to pay more for a basic meal in a small bistro type cafe than I would in the UK despite the fact that energy here is cheap and labour cheaper still, the average Egyptian earns about 350 LE a month which is 40 pounds sterling so how can they justify the prices? There is a saying, Don't bite the hand that feeds you and that is exactly what they are doing.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

wka said:


> I just checked - we do have Imigran here. For 4 tablets (50mg each), you pay €10.01. I can't tell if that's a good deal cause I don't know if the price you were quoting was per tablet or per box.
> 
> They don't sell 2 medicines that I regularly used in the US. I have to import them - since its for personal use, I've never had a problem, but I'm sure if I tried to bring in 20 boxes, they'd say something!




I have never seen them sold in a box of 4.. Egypt and Spain only have 2 tablets to the box. Greece is cheaper than Spain but more expensive than Egypt.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

We have them in a box of 2, with tablets of 100mg each instead of 50mg. That box costs €12.21 (pharmacy pays €8.49). They also sell injections here, I bet those are worth the money - €48 but probably work pretty quick. My experience with migraines is that €48 is NOTHING compared to the idea of not having a migraine anymore.



> Is this crisis due to the Euro or is it due to Greece?
> 
> Greece was always my preferred holiday and I would sometimes visit the islands three times a year. I was very comfortable in monetary terms so the costs of meals etc did not really affect me but I know friends who went year after year because the exchange rate with the Drachma was to their advantage but now no longer go as the basic costs of having a meal out with the family have shot up and out of their reach.
> The same thing is happening here in Egypt.. I am now expected to pay more for a basic meal in a small bistro type cafe than I would in the UK despite the fact that energy here is cheap and labour cheaper still, the average Egyptian earns about 350 LE a month which is 40 pounds sterling so how can they justify the prices? There is a saying, Don't bite the hand that feeds you and that is exactly what they are doing.


You mean the homelessness and hunger crisis... In my view, that's mainly down to the combination of unemployment, inflation, and increased taxes (call it the Euro Crisis or the Greek Crisis, I think it's the same thing). We don't have a welfare system here really. People who have lost their jobs are in a very delicate position because there was a very sudden increase in tax burden, especially those who own (or have a mortgage on) a home. 

The Drachma was always very advantageous to me as well (with the US dollar)... now the Euro is worth far more than the dollar, so I hate to spend any USD here.

I was shocked by the prices in Turkey, which is of course not in the Euro. The prices were not significantly lower than the Euro prices in Greece!! (for things like restaurants, museums, hotels, taxis - touristy stuff) I was charged €10 for a salad in Turkey and there was nothing special about it. That sort of thing was very common and I wasn't even in touristy areas the entire time. I think the cost to enter the Agia Sofia was about €10!!! The Acropolis in Greece is €12 and includes a handful of tickets to other sites for free! 

It sounds like Egypt and Turkey have similar issues. That said, I was only in Turkey for 2 weeks and my Turkish is really bad. So I know I was taken advantage of many times (but that's not exactly a good thing either....).


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Do you think the Drachma will make a re appearance some time soon?


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

I hope so. My husband and I are in favor of its return. It will be excruciating for the first few years but it offers some chance of growth in the future. The way we are going now, we are just slogging along with no hope in the future.

[People get very upset when I say that, but my saying it isn't going to make it happen. As an American, it would very much benefit me if the Greek currency were to be devalued greatly. I can't speak for the rest of the population but for us, it would undoubtedly help us out a lot. Most people here are dead-set against it for a lot of very good reasons.]

I suppose if they do it, they will do it overnight with no prior notice. So it's hard to say. But I have noticed that politicians and technocrats have started talking about it, whereas in the past they wouldn't let themselves be caught on tape discussing it at all. I keep reading things in the international media (Bloomberg, WSJ, etc) that seem to suggest that the chances of Greece leaving the Euro are "100%" (I quote), so how do you get around that?


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Another thing I've noticed is people showing concern with the serial numbers on their Euro notes. Trying to dump Euro notes that were printed in Greece. That suggests that there is a fear/rumor that until a Greek currency can be circulated, they will declare that Greek-minted Euro currency is to be treated as a national currency. This has never been discussed by the politicians that I know of, but people do talk about it. Apparently in Germany people are also trying to get rid of Greek-minted notes as well.

(Although a quick glance in my wallet shows 3 notes from 3 different countries, none of which is Greece, so how doable this is really is hard to say - and I live in a provincial hick town far from Athens.)


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