# Bye Bye Maynard Krebs



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

A startling new development in the visa wars as experienced first hand by Dawg´s wife at the Guatemala/Mexico border yesterday as she returned to Chiapas from Panajachel.

It has been not untypical for young vagabonds and others who lack the financial wherewithall to qualify for Mexican residency visas, to live in Mexico, especially in places such as San Cristóbal de Las Casas and other hip parts of Chiapas. etc., to come to Mexico on 180 day tourist visas and, upon approaching the expiration day of those visas, to exit Mexico to Guatemala or Belize or even back to the U.S., returning to Mexico forthwith for another refreshed 180 day tourist visa. This has been going on forever and has always, in the past, worked well for those unqualified for residency if they wanted to stay in Mexico indefinitely. As an ex-backpacker, vagabond from the 1960s, I have used this method and am sympathetic to those who stay on in a place they love using this method but, according to my wife and her experience as of yesterday, times have changed.

As she waited at immigration at the Guatemala/Mexico border yesterday, she was behind several young folks who had just returned to Mexico from a brief stay in Guatemala and were re-applying for new 180 day tourist visas. The immigration agents informed them that they could re-enter Mexico but only with a 30 day tourist visa as the new immigration rules forbad the issuance of any tourist visa in excess of 30 days to any applicant who was trying to re-enter Mexico after having been issued a prior 180 day tourist visa as evidenced by a stamped tourist visa in their passports. These young folks were freaked that the rules had changed but the immigration agent was unmoved. Those are the new rules, he informed them. That´s the way it is. They were despondent but to no avail.

Watch out, those of you living intermittently on tourist visas; plan ahead.

I´m just the messenger. Dont blame me. We all knew INM rules were changing but this is a sledgehammer blow to a whole lot of people. I only know about this because my wife witnessed this event first hand at the border. Good luck.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

What on earth does your tale have anything with Maynard Krebs, a role in a 60's sit com ?


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Gosh, Chicois8. You´re putting me on the spot but I realize my symbolism was a bit esoteric so here goes:

San Cristóbal de Las Casas is where Maynard Krebs went to blossom before dying after he left Dobie Gillis and Tuesday Weld in Ajijic on Lake Chapala, AKA Kansas, to fend for themselves. Maynard, Dobie and Tuesday could only be perceived on little round screens in black and white in those days but Maynard hoped to enliven his image in such distant redoubts as San Cristóbal or Panajachel while Dobie and Tuesday simply got older and duller with time . However, over the past decades, Maynard has become dependent upon his having the capacity to renew this self-image he has created for himself by periodic visits to the Guatemala border the way an infirm person revisits Lourdes for physical and spiritual replenishment. If Maynard is no longer capable of replenishing his tourist visa for an appropriate period of time by periodic, if superficial and, otherwise, meaningless, visits to the Gatemala border, then what is he to do to maintain his image for his own pérsonal aggrandizement? Time to head back to Moline and move in with mom and dad and go to work in dad´s Western Hardware store selling lug nuts.

I hope this brief explanation will suffice.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Ha ha,

I understood the initial Dobie Gillis reference perfectly well. The explanation above is rather complex and esoteric!

I think if you read Hound Dog's initial post well and think about it, it will become clear.

On a more pertinent note - it appears that Longford's doom and gloom warning against this very thing are coming to pass.

I'll bet this aversion to multiple tourist permits is more common on the Guatemala border than on the US border since more "undesirables" are arriving from there than from the US. However, it is interesting that the INM director in San Miguel has recently said that doing the 180 day "renewal" is no problem but Hound Dog's wife has seen it be otherwise. Again, the only thing for sure is what the person on the other side of the desk is saying _right now_.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

circle110 said:


> Ha ha,
> 
> I understood the initial Dobie Gillis reference perfectly well. The explanation above is rather complex and esoteric!
> 
> ...


I went to a meeting with INM in Ajijic on Lake Chapala today and the delgado said the same thing, no problem with multiple renewals. But as Circle and others have said, what matters is the official on the spot at the time.

Incidentally, the meeting this morning was the most English speaking people I have seen in one place in 5 years in Mexico. In fact it far exceeded the total number of English speakers I have met in my 5 years here. I can go for weeks without ever seeing any native English speakers. This morning there were hundreds of them there.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Incidentally, the meeting this morning was the most English speaking people I have seen in one place in 5 years in Mexico. In fact it far exceeded the total number of English speakers I have met in my 5 years here. I can go for weeks without ever seeing any native English speakers. This morning there were hundreds of them there.


So how did that make you feel?


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> Gosh, Chicois8. You´re putting me on the spot but I realize my symbolism was a bit esoteric so here goes:
> 
> San Cristóbal de Las Casas is where Maynard Krebs went to blossom before dying after he left Dobie Gillis and Tuesday Weld in Ajijic on Lake Chapala, AKA Kansas, to fend for themselves. Maynard, Dobie and Tuesday could only be perceived on little round screens in black and white in those days but Maynard hoped to enliven his image in such distant redoubts as San Cristóbal or Panajachel while Dobie and Tuesday simply got older and duller with time . However, over the past decades, Maynard has become dependent upon his having the capacity to renew this self-image he has created for himself by periodic visits to the Guatemala border the way an infirm person revisits Lourdes for physical and spiritual replenishment. If Maynard is no longer capable of replenishing his tourist visa for an appropriate period of time by periodic, if superficial and, otherwise, meaningless, visits to the Gatemala border, then what is he to do to maintain his image for his own pérsonal aggrandizement? Time to head back to Moline and move in with mom and dad and go to work in dad´s Western Hardware store selling lug nuts.
> 
> I hope this brief explanation will suffice.


Nope


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Despite the unfortunate title I gave this thread which has caused some confusion, this is really about visas available to foreigners entering Mexico from Guatemala crossing the border at La Mesilla, Guatemala which is the crossing one would normally take transiting from Guatemala City, Antigua or Panajachel, Guatemala destined for Comitan, San Cristóbal or Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas and beyond although one can reach these places by other routes. 

My wife just crossed the border into Guatemala a couple of weeks ago with her French cousin at Frontera Corozal, Chiapas entering Guatemala at Bethel and exited Guatemala two weeks later at La Mesilla. At La Mesilla there was a large contingent of European and American young people who might be visually conceived to be "hippie" types _(thus the reference to the character Maynard Krebs who, in the 1960s sitcom "Dobie Gillis" was actually a "beatnik") _who had entered Guatemala from Mexico in order to refresh their normal 180 day tourist visas for another 180 days. For those of you unfamiliar with Chiapas, there is a large number of young people of limited means hanging out in places such as San Cristóbal de Las Casas who, collectivey, lack the financial capacity to qualify for Mexican residency visas so are in the habit of traveling to Guatemala semi-annually to renew their tourist visas so they can continue to hang out in "hip" San Cristóbal. Now, my wife´s observations are strictly limited to what happened at La Mesilla but I think what happened there has ramifications for everyone who is living in Mexico on tourist visas periodically renewed at a border whether a border with Guatemala, Belize or the U.S. although I can´t speak to what might happen at other border checkpoints.

The young European and American tourist visa holders re-entering Mexico from Guatemala, all of whom were the holders of previously issued 180 day tourist visas soon to expire were issued only 30 day tourist visa renewals. They were all freaked at this development and vociferously objected to the immigration officer who adamantly insisted that he was sorry for the inconvenience but that that was the new law. Period. No room for any discussion and, if they wished to continue to remain in Mexico for longer than 30 days, they would have to return to their home countries and apply for residency visas there before returning to Mexico. 

Now, you might presume at this point that they were stereotyping these young people as vagabonds and were attempting to roust them from Mexico as what they considered vagrants but that is an oversimplification. My wife´s cousin, who is a middle-aged French white lady or normal demeanor, is in Mexico as a tourist under a 180 day tourist visa issued her at the Mexican Consulate in Paris. That 180 day visa still has weeks to run before expiring. However, she was not allowed to re-enter Mexico under that visa but was allowed to re-enter only under a new 30 day tourist visa but even then, only after assuring the immigration officer that she had booked a flight back to Paris. What is interesting is that she has been visiting us at Lake Chapala and in Chiapas for a couple of months always with the plan to take the trip to Guatemala sometime during that visit. Presumably, had she and my wife taken that trip to Guatemala during the first part of her North America visit, upon her return to Mexico the 180 day tourist visa issued her in France would have been superceded by the new 30 day visa issued her at La Mesilla regardless of the date at which she had booked a flight back to France. As it happens, she is leaving anyway in a couple of weeks so the point is moot but this could have been a problem had she originally planned to be in Mexico for a longer period of time. 

We have lived in Mexico for 12 years and are permanent residents so all of these nightmarish scenarios are of only peripheral interest to us but it´s pretty spooky what is happening these days under the new law. It now seems that those who have lived in Mexico, perhaps for years, under semi-annually renewed tourist visas, may find themselves on the fast track out of the country and whether that is good or bad has everything to do with your point of view but clearly, in La Mesilla at least, this applies to all applicants to entry universally so be aware and plan accordingly.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

Excellent info Dawg!
Here's how spastic i am. My first true love was Annette Funicello, but something about Zelda has always haunted me.

The borders and the rules are always the people who create them and interpret them. I imagine the 'point of entry' as well as the mind-set sitting at the desk makes for many adventures. 

Please post more, i like your style.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

edgeee said:


> Excellent info Dawg!
> Here's how spastic i am. My first true love was Annette Funicello, but something about Zelda has always haunted me.
> 
> The borders and the rules are always the people who create them and interpret them. I imagine the 'point of entry' as well as the mind-set sitting at the desk makes for many adventures.
> ...


Nanette Funicello? Oh my God? Përhaps had I been so inclined, Troy Donahue. 

I left Mobile for Santa Monica in 1966 just to meet Nanette on the beach there. That didn´t work out but that´s life. Move on, I say.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Hound Dog said:


> A startling new development in the visa wars......


Wow, is this information ever timely. 
Our friends entered Mexico in early November/12, intending to spend their usual 180 days here in Zihuatanejo, scheduled to leave around 21 April/13.
Unfortunately, he was diagnosed a couple of days ago with a detached retina, so, after discussing with his healthcare provider, he and his wife left for Canada today, with immediate surgery scheduled for tomorrow night or Monday morning in Canada. They hope that if all goes well, they will be able to return to Zihua as soon as he is capable of flying, and would then stay later, perhaps into May. 
Your information suggests they may not be able to re-enter Mexico using their existing 180 day
tourist visa, (even though it still has 3 months left ) - and may be issued only a 30 day visa, because of that recently-issued 180 day visa, when I'm sure they expect to either use the balance of that original visa, or just obtain a new 180 day visa.
I'm positive they are totally unaware of these potential visa problems, (or, at this point, even care). As has been pointed out, there's also a strong possibility they will have no problems returning whatsoever, but I would be negligent if I don't make them aware of the possibility of problems. In a worst case scenario, he would get his eye fixed, and book flights back to Zihua, only to find, on arrival, that they get only a 30 day visa.

Thanks for the heads-up.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

HolyMole said:


> Wow, is this information ever timely.
> Our friends entered Mexico in early November/12, intending to spend their usual 180 days here in Zihuatanejo, scheduled to leave around 21 April/13.
> Unfortunately, he was diagnosed a couple of days ago with a detached retina, so, after discussing with his healthcare provider, he and his wife left for Canada today, with immediate surgery scheduled for tomorrow night or Monday morning in Canada. They hope that if all goes well, they will be able to return to Zihua as soon as he is capable of flying, and would then stay later, perhaps into May.
> Your information suggests they may not be able to re-enter Mexico using their existing 180 day
> ...


A couple of comments--based entirely on hearsay, not personal experience.

I don't believe you can ever reuse a tourist entry permit. You always get a new one if you leave and return.

The head of one of the offices for INM told a group on Friday, that there is no problem with multiple tourist permits and he stated very clearly that it should always be issued for 180 days. There is nothing in the new regulations about shorter time periods.

Of course what matters is the officer at your point of entry, and as Hound Dawg has related, they can have a different interpretation.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Hound Dog said:


> Nanette Funicello? Oh my God? Përhaps had I been so inclined, Troy Donahue.
> 
> I left Mobile for Santa Monica in 1966 just to meet Nanette on the beach there. That didn´t work out but that´s life. Move on, I say.




Maybe if you spelled her name correctly you would have found Annette


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

>>I don't believe you can ever reuse a tourist entry permit. You always get a new one if you leave and return.

Yes, this is true. Whenever you leave the country after a visit on a 180 tourist permit you must turn it in. If HolyMole's friends are flying, the airlines will make them turn in their tourist permits before boarding. Then, when they fly back, the airlines will give them new permits to fill out on the plane. I am guessing that the elapsed time in Canada will cause the INM agent in the Zihua airport to just give them new full 180 day permits without question.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> A couple of comments--based entirely on hearsay, not personal experience.
> 
> I don't believe you can ever reuse a tourist entry permit. You always get a new one if you leave and return.
> 
> ...


As is his custom here on the forum, TG has offered sage advice. You must surrender the 180 day permit upon departure from the country, so a continuance is not really a practical consideration. And, as the essence of Mexico dictates, the person behind the desk is the person who will decide your fate. Until proven otherwise, I will stand by my belief that "If a person is coming from the north, is seemingly self sufficient and well behaved, they will be given 180 day permits for as long as they care to use them."


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


chicois8 said:



Maybe if you spelled her name correctly you would have found Annette

Click to expand...

_Did you find "Annette", chicoise8? Actually, I´d have preferred Troy. Did I get that name right? I didn´t find him either but things worked out for me after Santa Monica once I returned to Mobile. If Annette/Nanette and Troy are still on the planet, I´ll bet they are on the skids these days.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Ken Wood said:


> As is his custom here on the forum, TG has offered sage advice. You must surrender the 180 day permit upon departure from the country, so a continuance is not really a practical consideration. And, as the essence of Mexico dictates, the person behind the desk is the person who will decide your fate. Until proven otherwise, *I will stand by my belief that "If a person is coming from the north, is seemingly self sufficient and well behaved, they will be given 180 day permits for as long as they care to use them*."


#" ...the essence of Mexico...."

This above narrative defines what those in the united States define as "racial or ethnic profiling". That´s OK as we are in Mexico, not the United States and, as we all know, Mexico is not socially encumbered by racism.

The key criteria are that the person being observed by the immigration officer should be:
* White
* Dressed conservatively in accordance with that officer´s understanding of community values
* Properly groomed
* Courteous and deferential

In other words, Steppin Fetchit 

Yahsuh Boss!


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## sunnyvmx (Mar 14, 2010)

The officers at the borders of Guatemala and Belize have long been known for their irritating demeanor when issuing a tourist visa for someone making a turnaround. It's always been recommended to check for 180 days upon receipt. Now it seems that they are using the new regulations for an excuse to make it more difficult. I'm sure they feel these persons are making more work for them and their jobs would be easier if they could be driven away.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

My wife, who, as noted above, came across from Guatemala to Mexico at La Mesilla, just spoke with someone who came across at Tapachula and received a 180 day tourist visa but was scolded by the immigration officer as she had exited Mexico and returned from Guatemala to Mexico in less that the required 72 hours absence.

It seems that one is subject to the whims of the immigration official one encounters at the Mexico/Guatemala border checkpoints. Good luck.


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