# Getting married to an EU citizen to get EU citizenship...



## xiaohouzi

Hola! 
Over the years, I've been told that if you marry an EU citizen, you can get EU citizenship and stay in Europe and work legally. The problem is that I have been legally married to an EU citizen since 2001 but I'm still not allowed to work legally in the EU and I can't stay more than 3 months at a time. What if i want to see me kids grow up? Is there anyone who can help me? I have been to some consulates but they don't seem to care. What should I do?


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## chris(madrid)

It's NOT that simple. A friend of my wife married a Peruvian - to get him residency took her OVER A YEAR - and she is a Civil Servant so has inside contacts. Your EU wife has to work for you.


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## xiaohouzi

chris(madrid) said:


> It's NOT that simple. A friend of my wife married a Peruvian - to get him residency took her OVER A YEAR - and she is a Civil Servant so has inside contacts. Your EU wife has to work for you.


Thanks but she is so busy taking care of the kids and going to school. She doesn't have any contacts. It's all up to me and i am getting so discouraged. I don't know what to do.
Thanks anyway.


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## Fatbrit

xiaohouzi said:


> Hola!
> Over the years, I've been told that if you marry an EU citizen, you can get EU citizenship and stay in Europe and work legally. The problem is that I have been legally married to an EU citizen since 2001 but I'm still not allowed to work legally in the EU and I can't stay more than 3 months at a time. What if i want to see me kids grow up? Is there anyone who can help me? I have been to some consulates but they don't seem to care. What should I do?


First of all, the rules depend on which EU country you are moving to. While it's true that there is the concept of European citizenship which gives certain rights, this is secondary to state citizenship. Lots of states in the EU equals lots of different rules. But I cannot imagine there is not a path to residency (and from there, to citizenship) for all EU countries. Which state are you trying to get residency in on the basis of your spouse, and why are you failing to qualify?


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## jojo

xiaohouzi said:


> Thanks but she is so busy taking care of the kids and going to school. She doesn't have any contacts. It's all up to me and i am getting so discouraged. I don't know what to do.
> Thanks anyway.



In your last thread, you know, the one from last night thats been deleted you said you were married to a romanian, but had no contact, in fact you've said so many different things, you seem to be making it up as you go along. Its not hard to understand why the authorities wont give you EU citizenship. No one here can help you get it, Even if you did, there is very little work for nationals, let alone an EU citizen and there is no social aid

Jo


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## chris(madrid)

xiaohouzi said:


> Thanks but she is so busy taking care of the kids and going to school.


 Without her supporting your case you'll have problems.


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## Stravinsky

Make things clear for us xiaohouzi


1. What nationality are you?
2. What nationality is your wife?
3. Where were you married?
4. Where does she live?
5. Where do you live?

Please answer these questions, as its getting a little confusing.


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## Pasanada

Stravinsky said:


> Make things clear for us xiaohouzi
> 
> 
> 1. What nationality are you?
> 2. What nationality is your wife?
> 3. Where were you married?
> 4. Where does she live?
> 5. Where do you live?
> 
> Please answer these questions, as its getting a little confusing.


We went through this last night with this gentleman......this is getting painful now....


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## Stravinsky

Pasanada said:


> We went through this last night with this gentleman......this is getting painful now....


I know but he has to answer now otherwise the thread is pointless and going round in circles


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## crookesey

Pasanada said:


> We went through this last night with this gentleman......this is getting painful now....


He's just the secretive type, possibly ex SAS.


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## Pasanada

crookesey said:


> He's just the secretive type, possibly ex SAS.


Oh yes, silly me!!


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## Pasanada

Stravinsky said:


> I know but he has to answer now otherwise the thread is pointless and going round in circles


I know, you should see the bald patch on my head from constantly scratching it last night.....


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## jojo

the worlds gone mad!!!!!!

Jo


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## Pasanada

jojo said:


> the worlds gone mad!!!!!!
> 
> Jo


My kinda world! LOL


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## xiaohouzi

Hey! Why so critical? 
It's true, my life is very complicated and i am often misunderstood but i try to keep it simple.
So here are the answers to your questions in no particular order...

I was born in america so i have only us citizenship so far but since i was 12, i felt like i was in the wrong place. At one time, i had Spanish residency but not a work visa which is why i couldn't stay last time. 

At the moment I live and work in nyc but i'm trying to find work in the EU so that i can return.

I am married to a Romanian citizen since 2001. She lives in Romania with her family and two children (twins). It's a tiny apartment and a small town where there is no work for the locals, not to mention yours truly. 

None of us want to live in america so she is staying there until i find work in the EU. I am hoping that someone will help me a little so that i can return to Europe and we can be together as a family. 

I agree that the world has gone mad... it seems everywhere i go, especially here in nyc, people are so hostile. I can't wait to get out of this place and find a nice friendly home in the EU. 

I hope all this helps to clear up some things and you can stop scratching your head. I'm not all that secretive or i wouldn't bother to tell you any of this. 

Cheers!


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## Pasanada

If you were working in Spain until 2006, when did your Residencia begin? I ask this because Residencia's last for 5 years, yours may still be valid. However, as a US citizen, I'm not sure why you have one although I'm no expert on Spanish immigration......come to think of it, neither are the Spaniards!!! LOL


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## Stravinsky

OK so you're a US Citizen wanting to work in Spain with a Romanian wife.

So ... surely and correct me if I'm wrong ... you need as a start get a citizenship in Romania with the added backing of the fact that you have a wife and kids there.

So have you actually applied to Romania for this on these grounds, and if so why did they reject you.


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## Bevdeforges

Stravinsky said:


> OK so you're a US Citizen wanting to work in Spain with a Romanian wife.
> 
> So ... surely and correct me if I'm wrong ... you need as a start get a citizenship in Romania with the added backing of the fact that you have a wife and kids there.
> 
> So have you actually applied to Romania for this on these grounds, and if so why did they reject you.


Chances are, he won't be eligible for Romanian citizenship until he has lived legally in Romania for some period of time, which means the first step is getting a valid visa. And in most countries, this means that the Romanian wife will have to be able to support him. 

It also raises the question of where they got married and whether the marriage is registered with or recognized by the Romanians. In some countries, marriages with foreigners are assumed to be visa marriages unless you can prove otherwise, and with them living apart for so long, this case probably raises alarm bells.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Pasanada

The bells have certainly been ringing in my head!!


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## chris(madrid)

xiaohouzi said:


> Hey! Why so critical?
> 
> I was born in america so i have only us citizenship so far but since i was 12, i felt like i was in the wrong place. At one time, i had Spanish residency but not a work visa which is why i couldn't stay last time.
> 
> At the moment I live and work in nyc but i'm trying to find work in the EU so that i can return.
> 
> I am married to a Romanian citizen since 2001. She lives in Romania with her family and two children (twins). It's a tiny apartment and a small town where there is no work for the locals, not to mention yours truly.
> 
> None of us want to live in america so she is staying there until i find work in the EU. I am hoping that someone will help me a little so that i can return to Europe and we can be together as a family.
> 
> Cheers!


Not critical - simply confused, mate!.

So - as things stand - MY UNDERSTANDING is that you need to either get a WORK PERMIT (in whichever country you decided to look for work) as an AMERICAN. A Euro wide work permit does NOT exist . Europe is a UNION of independent sovereign states. Not a country. 

Or become a recognised (naturalised) EU citizen whence you can look freely as a European due to agreements and treaties within this union. 

My understanding is that just being married to an EU citizen DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WORK HERE. Your *nationality* is the key to that. It may (should imo) though give you the right to co-reside with your spouse. Also having the right to residency with you wife DOES NOT automatically mean if she changes country that YOU CAN TOO. You'd still be obliged to register as a non EU national. I have actually seen a person rejected here (as _persona non grata_) that was legally residing in another EU county & whose spouse is EU. 

If she is in Romania - THAT IS WHERE YOU NEED TO GO FIRST. It's a foregone conclusion that she is your SPONSOR for entry to the EU. 

If your marriage is registered as such in Romania this should be possible. If you married in the US (or just about anywhere else) then you need consular assistance to get it recognised there at a guess. 

Then you can apply to be a Romanian citizen (dual nationality may be an option - you need to find out). Once you have that then you're free to move within the EU.

THIS IS GOING TO TAKE TIME - AND YOU NEED TO TAKE IT ONE STEP AT A TIME AS A CAMPAIGN. 

I've mentioned my wifes friend. She is Spanish. Her Husband is Peruvian. Despite the VERY close ties between Spain and South America (much stronger than with North America!) it took 18months to get him here - and he still is NOT in possession of a work permit. 

BUT one point - I recall that when Romania joined the EU it was a phased integration - The freedom of residence was immediate - but iirc there was still a need to apply for work permits for a certain amount of time (we have friends with a restaurant who hired a couple - good workers too)

Sorry I've looked and cant find this anywhere - but iirc was 2 years. There were MANY reports on Spanish TV of Romanians living legally (as they had the right to live here) but as tramps because they could not obtain that work permit as the employer had to make additional guarantees - and wont make that move. 

You need to ask the consulates/embassies - Spain/Romania.

Tough - yes it is. But that imo is the way it really is. Unless you use that NEVIS option - and god only knows if it's GENUINE. 

Your call.


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## xiaohouzi

Wow! I didn't expect so many responses! Thanks so much everyone for your concern! Even though i haven't gotten very far, i'm starting to feel glad that i found this forum... 

I think i remember my boss waiting until the very last moment, which is typical of him, to go to the Guardia Civil. That was about 3 months after i had arrived. It only took a few days to get this NIE number... is that right? I had no idea that it would be valid for up to 5 years... some say it is valid just as my SSN is here in the states. Now i can't seem to remember where it is so i will have to look for it. 

Moving back to Romania without a job is totally out of the question as she is already burdened two children to take care of. I would feel so useless there. I'm sure you understand. At least from here, i can send money but this is no life either. The marriage is registered... i remember going through quite a lot of red tape for that. 

Thanks, Chris(Madrid)... I realize that Europe is not a country... I do know that Europeans are allowed to live and work anywhere inside the EU as long as they are registered or have a permit as you say. I don't think that getting a permit is a real issue. The real issue is getting citizenship in one of the EU countries and finding work which will be much easier once i have citizenship. Trust me, i know what i'm talking about here. Others like you have told me that getting married to an EU citizen doesn't give me instant rights in Europe and i believe you... that has been exactly my experience. This is what i'm dealing with which is why i am seeking help. If marriage did give me the right to legally work in the EU then i wouldn't be here looking for information. I would already have a job, be working and paying taxes to help make Europe a better place to live. 

Thank you all again... I appreciate the advice, Chris, and i will be visiting the Romanian consulate again soon. I have heard of americans having dual citizenship in Romania so i'm sure it's possible. In fact, i think it's possible in most EU countries but unfortunately, from what i have heard from some sources, it doesn't work the other way around for EU citizens wanting to get American citizenship yet there are so many Europeans moving to the states.
I can't imagine they are giving up their EU citizenship. I also have some Romanian friends living in Spain and have talked to them about it... It seems that in the beginning, they had to return to Romania every 3 months but many of them are now legal residents of Spain so they might as well be Spanish citizens. And if they can do it, surely i can. I will let you know what happens with that agency in Nevis. If it's a scam, i will do my best to expose them before they are able to cheat anyone. Now it's time for work again...

Cheers everyone!


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## Stravinsky

xiaohouzi said:


> It seems that in the beginning, they had to return to Romania every 3 months but many of them are now legal residents of Spain so they might as well be Spanish citizens. And if they can do it, surely i can. I will let you know what happens with that agency in Nevis. If it's a scam, i will do my best to expose them before they are able to cheat anyone. Now it's time for work again...
> 
> Cheers everyone!


Errrrr .... I think you may be confusing things here. Your Romainian friends would have come here to Spain already as EU Citizens (which you are not), and taken up *residency* in Spain. Just like I did. But thats *not* citizenship. Legal resident in Spain to Citizen of Spain is one huge jump. As Chris said, you would have to get Citizenship elsewhere first, and the easiest way would have been for your wife to sponsor you.

Herewith requirements for becoming a Spanish citizen:
Requirements to obtain Spanish nationality — EuskoSare


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## Pasanada

Your NIE is your fiscal number (DNI for Spanish nationals), totally different to Residencia.


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## chris(madrid)

IN THEORY - iirc Your NIE (Foreigner ID) loses VALIDITY 6 months after you cease to reside in Spain. It is NOT the same (legally) as a SS number either.

As stated the "Right to Reside/Work" is NOT the same as "Citizenship". 

As an EU citizen I have the right to reside & work in ANY EU country. Even so there are jobs in Spain that are NOT open to me or other non-Spanish citizens! -- esp law & order (which interest me not even slightly), but also certain aspects of armaments and communications, for which I have qualifications. 

My guess is that your Romanian friends were returning every 3 months PRIOR to 1/1/2007 as prior to that Romania was not a member of the EU. So they'd be open to deportation if caught on a short term visitors visa that had expired - and as such denied re-entry as Persona Non Grata (this NEVER loses validity if they so desire).

That or they were enabled for some form of benefit in Ro. I know of Spaniards who've gone looking for work in Other EU countries - but who returned every 3 months to get their "stamp" at the unemployment office and received unemployment benefit for a while.

It used to be far easier to get a job like "private" cleaning without a contract whilst on a visitors visa - I know folk who _had_ live-in housekeepers who were *100% illegal*. The law was soft and simply went for the employee and so it was easy to find this sort of work. Now the law makes life very hard for the employers of illegals - so they don't do it as much. 

I only know of one case and it's a bit grey. They're rich South Americans and they brought their live-in housekeeper/nanny with them whilst they're seconded here - officially she's a family dependant and receives no pay (she has "pocket money" as do their children).


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## Stravinsky

chris(madrid) said:


> IN THEORY - iirc Your NIE (Foreigner ID) loses VALIDITY 6 months after you cease to reside in Spain. It is NOT the same (legally) as a SS number either.



An NIE number is for life, not just for Christmas 

Returning ex pats have been advised that they need not apply for a new NIE, the original stays with them


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## chris(madrid)

Stravinsky said:


> An NIE number is for life, not just for Christmas
> 
> Returning ex pats have been advised that they need not apply for a new NIE, the original stays with them


 I had to re-apply for mine! But it was a long time ago.

afaik Strav - the number is personal - BUT it can lose validity esp non-EU folk.


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## Stravinsky

chris(madrid) said:


> I had to re-apply for mine! But it was a long time ago.
> 
> afaik Strav - the number is personal - BUT it can lose validity esp non-EU folk.


All I can tell you is what returning ex pats have told me .... they have been advised that your NIE is with you for life ..... but as I always say, things can be different in different places in Spain


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## Pasanada

I blame those Civil servants for not speaking with each other.........


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## chris(madrid)

Pasanada said:


> I blame those Civil servants for not speaking with each other.........


Damn right - cant have these Guiris fathoming things out!


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## Pasanada

chris(madrid) said:


> Damn right - cant have these Guiris fathoming things out!


Says he, a Guiri! LOL


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## carefreebrit

If the OP is still reading this I have some questions which might make the situation clearer and enable someone to help.
You were born in the US--are your parents US citizens ?
Have you ever visited Romania to see your wife ?
You said the twins are yours, I think--how old are they and what passport do they have ?
Does your wife work or have a trade ?
What is your trade or speciality ?
Is your wife doing her very best to help you join her ?

Before anyone starts accusing me of being rude or heartless, I have lived in Bulgaria for a few years and there are many similarities between here and Romania. The wife should have a network of friends and family if she has returned to her home town and could therefore find someone to look after the children whilst she goes to Buchurest and helps her husband to join her. If the children were born in Spain with a US citizen as father then should they not have a US passport ? Depending on how much money the Op is sending to his wife, her life could well be easier if he stays in the USA as salaries can be as low as 140 euro per month in Romania and with perhaps no rent to pay.........
I knew a lady who worked in the British embassy in Sofia very well, and the stories she told me of what some ladies would say and do.....
If the OP is offended at this post then I suggest he thinks long and hard about the facts, reads back through the lack of information given to those of you who were trying to be helpful, and perhaps tries to help you to help him. I cannot believe that the US embassy would not help one of their citizens unless there is more to the story than has been revealed. The emabassies are not staffed by total imbeciles and they can be quite good at finding out what is happening.
I will be particularly interested to know if the OP has visited his wife in her home town and met her family in their home [Reason given after an answer]
Many foreigners live and work in Bulgaria and Romania-if the Op and his wife are very keen to be together then it is possible to think of something, hence my question about his trade.
I think I have rattled on enough for now..perhaps some of you will be reading between the lines already !


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## Pasanada

carefreebrit said:


> I think I have rattled on enough for now..perhaps some of you will be reading between the lines already !


Yes, and hope I'm wrong but have heard stories like this when I was dealing with immigrants into the UK and British Army.


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## jojo

velena said:


> Dear Jo,
> I not the citizen of EU. A unique way to receive citizenship and the right to work is a marriage. Therefore I search for the woman-citizen of EU to marry a commercial basis: money, payment of training in the country where I am, purchase or construction of the house for two, etc.
> 
> Alex


But there is no work and no right to work in the EU! You need to look at the unemployment figures, I'm an EU citizen and wheres my right to work???? I cant get a job!. Dont waste waste your time or money even trying, it'll get you nowhere!

Jo


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