# advice,unauthorized sewage pipe and wall on my land



## madeira (Jun 12, 2018)

While living in the UK in 2002, we bought land & built our house in Madeira. After many people claimed that they had the right to the land (our land), I hired a topographic survey of our area to accurately map since the cadastral maps are old, and many are out of date.
While fencing the boundary, we discovered the two neighbours had buried their sewage pipes and fresh water pipes without telling anyone or asking for prior permission from us, across our land. They claim that they paid the local Camara Funchal, but the CMF doesn't do private work. As well as burying his sewage pipes alongside the others the other neighbour had also built a wall in front of his boundary wall which means the new one is on our land. He even tried to dig a driveway across our land so he can get his car to his house, again not authorised. I can't afford lawyers to fight this as my wife and I are retired. She is Portuguese and I am British and tried conciliation but only got arrogance and abuse. We informed the local council in Funchal in February 2019 and to May 4th we still haven't had any communication from them even after our visit in April. They are wanting us to go away. Please, can anyone help with advice etc, we desperately need some help? Thank you in advance.


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## Fisco (Sep 15, 2016)

Very sorry to read of your predicament but I am afraid your statement, "they are waiting for us to go away" is correct. This is Portugal and as a foreigner you stand no chance of getting any help from anybody and certainly not the Camara which probably employs relatives or friends of the offending neighbours. If you are unable to live with the knowledge that there are utility pipes running under your land, my advice would be to sell up and move somewhere else because your obvious stress will continue to build and seriously affect the quality of your life and retirement.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Land disputes are common in PT but it sounds like you di it the right way and got the desired result but on a practical note of the water and sewage pipes I guess you need to be practical and ask yourself how much of a problem are they to you and what other options are there for those neighbours to get water and sewage from point A to point B.

If there are no other practical options and they're not a problem then learn to live with things as they are.


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## Tellus (Nov 24, 2013)

Land disputes are not only common in PT or Spain but anywhere, as long as no correct , actual data / plans are available. Problems are predictable if the owner is going to digg on his land and nobody knows where pipes, hoses or cable are buried. (In Berlin few month ago an excavator cut a high voltage cable, great parts of the city were dark for two days.)
So the camara has to react..

One can talk to the neighbor about the construction of a wall as long as it's just about the property boundary. But to plan a way over a foreign property in order to get off your own property is not only cheeky but forbidden.
Just the idea that a neighbour drives over my property without my permission and with the hot exhaust ignite the grass would leave me sleepless. Every insurance company is reluctant to do anything about this.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

I've found it just involves a bit of give and take and long slow non-aggressive discussions but, unfortunately, there are some narrow minded pedants. Older and rural properties often do not have accurate land plans - I was told by a lawyer that as tax was paid on land area it was often undeclared so the land area of Portugal on paper was 10% less then the actual size - often the boundary stones are absent though there has been a move recently in some areas for all boundary stones to be identified and land areas reassessed. On mainland Portugal when you buy property/land it is defined by the boundary markers and the registry updated o on a sale so there is no conflict, this is why you have a lawyer acting for you so these conflict do not exist. If you have issue with pipework then the first port of call is the legal rep you paid to do this, that is one reason why you paid them. Sometimes there are caveats which allow for pipe to be laid and maintained on land but your legal adviosor will have told you.


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## madeira (Jun 12, 2018)

Thanks to everyone who posted replies. I agree the best way forward is conciliation, but the abuse makes it difficult. I will persevere for the moment with the authorities but it is election year this year, and the media may be interested. Fisco, you are correct. Madeira is riddled with nepotism being a small Island with long family ties even lawyers are best from the mainland as most here play lip service to impartiality. I would fight it with a lawyer if I could afford it. It is a pity these people don't offer half an hour of free consultation similar to the UK. To Fisco, Travelling-man, Tellus and Strontium a big thanks for taking time to provide help and advice.


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