# Marry French National; Relocate to France



## andthushesaid

Hi everybody!

I spoke with my [American] employer’s [French] immigration attorneys regarding my transfer to our French offices pending my upcoming marriage to a French national. (No, my employer currently does not sponsor work visas.) Below are two of their answers to my follow-up questions:

• _15 business days is the delay to be anticipated from the date of filing of the spousal long stay visa at the consulate until the issuance of the visa_

• _The visa ‘Conjoint de Français’ is issued by the French consulate for 1 year, and also constitutes the French residence permit for the first year of your presence in France_

After our conversation, the French spousal immigration process seems to me spookily less convoluted and lengthy than that of the U.S. Yes, there is plenty of red tape in either case—e.g., documents, fees, visa renewals and so on… but my chief concerns are as follows:

1. *In my aforementioned context, is there any benefit to getting married in France vs. the US (besides weeks/months of transfer processing)? *I ask because Chicago marriage licenses are granted 24h after an in-person application with our respective passports as the only ID requirement—no birth certificates, no attestations, no witnesses. This is significantly less of a headache than getting married in France.

2. *Is it true—after having marriage documentation processed in France and applying for my ‘Conjoint de Français’—that this long stay visa is issued within 15 days… meaning I would gain residency and right to work for the subsequent year?* We’re open to my fiancé trying to move to America, too. But since our top priority is to start our life together after being separated since 2020, it’s seeming like France is our best bet; so we’re trying to garner as much insight as possible.

Thank you ALL in advance for your contributions and assistance 🙂


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## Bevdeforges

Hi and welcome to the forum. To address your concerns:

1. The big benefit to getting married in France is that you will receive your livret de famille (key document regarding your marriage) within a few days of the marriage taking place. OTOH, you can't apply for a spouse visa (actually "carte de séjour" - the residence permit) until you have established that you have lived together (in France, I believe it is) for at least 6 months. The details are here: Carte de séjour "vie privée et familiale" d'un étranger en France Click on the drop down menu for Époux de Français and you'll see there are options for those who entered France on a long-stay visa or on a short-stay (tourist) visa.

The "headache" in getting married in the US is that before you can apply for the spouse visa you have to get the marriage transcribed in France (i.e. recorded in the birth record of the French partner) and this can take several weeks to (occasionally) several months. The paperwork in France to get married, while a royal PITA, can usually be accomplished within 3 or 4 weeks - and most of the complication is getting the proper documents from the US Consulate in Paris.

2. Sort of. On entry to France on a spouse visa, you need to register with the OFII and there is a series of appointments you have to get through with the OFII - mostly classes (I think there are now 4 day long sessions) you need to complete so that you'll be able to renew your titre de séjour at the end of the first year. (There is also a cursory medical exam in there somewhere.) You'll also have to prove a minimal level of French proficiency by the time you have to renew your first titre de séjour.

Net-net, my take is that the hassle involved is significantly less if you get married in France - simply because you avoid what can be a long wait for the "transcription" of the marriage in France. However, you will have to make yourself available for the OFII classes once you are registered with them and it depends on what you are planning to do about working in France how practical that is.

The US spouse visa takes a whole lot longer, though there is also a "fiancé" option that doesn't exist for France (except indirectly). The US visa system is far more complicated and much more expensive. The French system is bewildering at first (even to the French partner) but once you get through the wedding and the OFII rigmarole you're done with the worst of it other than annual renewal for a few years until you can get multi-year residence permits and/or take French nationality.


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## andthushesaid

Thank you kindly, Bev—I greatly appreciate your knowledge on this subject and willingness to help.

I’ve read through the page you shared, particularly the Époux de Français section. It seems I was conflating the LSV with the CDS! That makes so much more sense to me. Again, to re-cap this for myself:

3. *After being married (assuming it’s in France) and successfully being granted an LSV, I will be permitted to find work in France and move there for one year (renewable by application). A medical exam, OFII integration courses, language proficiency test, etc. are required upon entry to France.*

4. *Then, after living with my spouse for [6 months], I can apply for a CDS.*

(Our objective as a couple is to lawfully start a life together without having one of us be out of work for an extended period of time. If that means spending months apart during the processing of documents and applications, so be it.)


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## Bevdeforges

OK - small terminology clarification here. A visa (i.e. the LSV in your posts) is a document that allows you to enter France for a particular purpose. Once in France, you then need to apply for a titre de séjour (which is the residence permit) which is a document that allows you to stay in France for a specified period of time (usually a year to start with) and then you renew the titre de séjour if you intend on staying. You cannot apply for nor receive a visa from within France. And you cannot receive nor apply for a titre de séjour from outside France. (Something of an over-simplification but important.)

The OFII course, medical exam, etc. are part of the registration process on arrival and you will need proof of having completed these items before you will be allowed to renew your initial titre de séjour at the end of your first year in France to receive an actual card ("carte") de séjour.

"Titre de séjour" is a generic term that encompasses both the initial residence permit (often just the validated version of the visa in your passport - to show that you have registered with the OFII to start off the process) and the "carte de séjour" which is a physical card they issue you on renewal. People use the abbreviation CDS for several different forms of residence permit, from the "titre de séjour" to the 10 year carte de résident which can then become a "permanent residence card" after you've lived here a while. Yes, the terminology is confusing, but this is France. Get used to it. <gg>


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## andthushesaid

You've wonderfully clarified this for me. So that I can best translate this for my fiancé, I'll state my current understanding, avoiding vague acronyms:

•* After being granted my Conjoint de Français long term visa (expected 15 days after application), I can enter France.

• Upon entry, (a) I must immediately complete the OFII course, medical exam, etc.; and (b) I may apply for my Titre de séjour, granting me residency for only the first year spent in France.

• After proving that I've lived with my spouse for [6 months], I can apply for my next year of residency (a.k.a. Carte de séjour, a physical card).*

Albeit potentially oversimplified, is this understanding/terminology correct?


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## Bevdeforges

If your fiancé is French, why not just show him the Service Public pages and let him/her read them for him/herself.

And you're still thinking like an American (which is one of those things you will have a tendency to do for the first few years in France). A few little clarifications:


andthushesaid said:


> •* After being granted my Conjoint de Français long term visa (expected 15 days after application), I can enter France.*



Basically, yes - but that type of visa becomes your titre de séjour once you have entered France. (I think they stamp the visa in your passport when you enter, which validates it.)
*



• Upon entry, (a.) I must immediately complete the OFII course, medical exam, etc.; and (b.) I may apply for my Titre de séjour, granting me residency for only the first year spent in France.

Click to expand...

*"Immediately" is not a word that is used much in France (especially these days). After you get here, you need to contact the OFII (according to the instructions that you'll receive with your visa). They will come back to you (not exactly "immediately" but when they can) to set up an appointment where the various classes, interviews and other stuff you need to do will be explained, scheduled, etc. It used to be that, when your visa wasn't stamped on entry, it was at this meeting with the OFII that your visa would be officially "validated" to serve as a titre de séjour. But since Covid, lots of the procedures have had to be adapted and adjusted so be prepared to pay attention and follow whatever instructions you are given.
*



• After proving that I've lived with my spouse for [6 months], I can apply for my next year of residency (a.k.a. Carte de séjour, a physical card).

Click to expand...

*If you were married before you applied for your visa (and had your marriage transcribed so that you have a livret de famille) there is no waiting period and no proof of co-habitation required. If you entered France and are intending to get married here, then you follow the instructions in Service Public (which do require proof of 6 months co-habitation in France). But in any event, you don't apply to renew your titre de séjour until the first one (i.e. the one in your passport) is coming up on expiration - i.e. about two months before it expires. By that time, you'll need to have all the certificates of completion for your various OFII classes, medical exam and (if required) your language proficiency certificate. If you have to change your status, you do it at the regular renewal of your residence permit.

I suppose the key to all this is: are you planning on getting married before you relocate to France, or after?


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## andthushesaid

Bevdeforges said:


> If your fiancé is French, why not just show him the Service Public pages and let him/her read them for him/herself.


Of course my fiancé can and has researched on his own. What I meant to say was: I want to be able to discuss this with him in French, and in order to do so I must first check for my own understanding at a base level. My French is good, but this is an unfamiliar subject for me linguistically.



Bevdeforges said:


> that type of visa becomes your titre de séjour once you have entered France. (I think they stamp the visa in your passport when you enter, which validates it.)


Oh, okay! (Forgive my confusion and thanks for your patience.)



Bevdeforges said:


> I suppose the key to all this is: are you planning on getting married before you relocate to France, or after?


The stipulations for marriage on Service Public are clear and easy to understand, so thanks for directing me there. We are indeed planning on getting married before relocation. Knowing this, are there any other misconceptions on my part which you can address? (I'm sure I'll have more questions as we walk through the process, but I have to start somewhere.)


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## andthushesaid

Also, Service Public>Famille>Mariage>Mariage en France>Instruction du Dossier states «Si l'un des futurs époux réside à l'étranger, l'audition peut être effectuée par l'autorité diplomatique ou consulaire compétente.»

Is that to say that we can apply for marriage while I am still in the US and then after 10 days I can come to France for the ceremony? Or must we both be present in France for both the application and the ceremony?


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## Bevdeforges

andthushesaid said:


> We are indeed planning on getting married before relocation. Knowing this, are there any other misconceptions on my part which you can address? (I'm sure I'll have more questions as we walk through the process, but I have to start somewhere.)


OK, this is what I was concerned about. You do realize, of course, that you can't apply for a spouse visa until you have transcribed your marriage (i.e. until you have the livret de famille in hand) and that can take some time. Check with your consulate to see what they require in terms of transcribing the marriage, especially the need to "publish the banns" before the wedding takes place.


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## Bevdeforges

andthushesaid said:


> Is that to say that we can apply for marriage while I am still in the US and then after 10 days I can come to France for the ceremony? Or must we both be present in France for both the application and the ceremony?


This page indicates what you need to do in order to get married in France. If you are planning on getting married in the US before you relocate, then none of this stuff applies to you.


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## andthushesaid

Bevdeforges said:


> This page indicates what you need to do in order to get married in France. If you are planning on getting married in the US before you relocate, then none of this stuff applies to you.


Assuming we get married in France prior to my relocation, we will not have to have the marriage certificate transcribed and will have the _Livret de famille _in hand.



andthushesaid said:


> Also, Service Public>Famille>Mariage>Mariage en France>Instruction du Dossier states «Si l'un des futurs époux réside à l'étranger, l'audition peut être effectuée par l'autorité diplomatique ou consulaire compétente.»
> 
> Is that to say that we can apply for marriage while I am still in the US and then after 10 days I can come to France for the ceremony? Or must we both be present in France for both the application and the ceremony?


Though I mentioned earlier in the thread that we were considering marriage in the US, my question above is referring to marriage in France—not the US. Any insight?


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## Bevdeforges

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for here. 

The section you're citing relates to the interview the mayor (or one of the maires adjoints) is supposed to conduct with each of the members of the couple. It is obligatory if one of the future spouses is a foreigner - and if the foreigner lives outside France, then yes, the interview can be done at the consulate. 

Frankly, though, it's a whole bunch easier if you go to France a good month or so before the wedding (on a Schengen tourist visa, if you like) because to get the various documents you need to marry in France as a foreigner, you're going to have to work with the US Embassy in Paris. Your fiancé or his parents (if you're planning on getting married at their mairie) will have to ask for a list of the documents needed for a foreigner to marry there. You'll see what I mean when you get the list. It's usually possible to make a sort of pre-reservation for a date and time at the mairie while you sort out all the documents you'll need.

And as far as I know, the interview (with the mayor or whoever) doesn't take place until after the dossier has been submitted and accepted.


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## andthushesaid

As always, thank you to the forum (@Bevdeforges in particular) for sharing your experience and answering questions, however redundant they may seem at times. 

*Here is an update on my situation for those interested:*

My French husband and I got married December 3, 2021 in Chicago! We spent all of 2020 and 2021 with the ocean between us, so few more months of red tape is just par for the course at this point. That is to say: efficiency is our goal, not rushing.

The French Consulate of Washington (since Chicago region business is still referred there at this time) verified the required documents for submission, found here: Transcription de l'acte de mariage. (Note: If you did not obtain a _certificat de capacité à mariage_, it is not required, but you must fill out the alternate application form.) As of now, our required documentation is as follows:

• our respective certified long-form birth certificates
• a certified copy of our marriage license with apostille (note: unless the marriage license is in a language other than French or English, a translation is explicitly not required)
• photocopies of the ID page of our passports
• photocopy of his _livret de famille_
• completed application form
• a self-addressed return envelope for my _livret de famille_

All the above documents were delivered to us by mail in less than two weeks, which I personally found astounding. I’d like to call it luck, but my conversation with the Illinois Secretary of State led me to believe that vital record requests are going faster since COVID-19 hit, simply because in-person business no longer interferes with back-of-house processing.

*I do have a couple current questions if anyone would be inclined:*

1. I have a flight booked under my current passport's name (no changes allowed). I must to wait until I return from the trip to renew the passport… but I also would like to send in my marriage transcription as soon as possible. Must I change my name legally (SS card, passport, DL, etc.) before applying for the marriage transcription, so that my _livret de famille_ has my married name on it?

2. My aforementioned trip is to Paris in March. Since my ultimate goal is obtaining a spouse visa, hopefully by summer 2022, would there be any utility in making an appointment with the embassy in Paris to answer any questions we may have? Or are they best referred to the Washington consulate since the application process is done in the US?


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## Bevdeforges

Congratulations! You're almost there.

As to your questions:
1. In France you never actually "change" your name. In your situation, just be sure to book your flight in the same name as what is in your passport. Legally, in France your name is always your given name at birth. If you choose to take your husband's family name, that becomes your "name d'usage" - and most forms and other official purposes will ask for both your "nom" and either your "nom d'usage" or your "nom de jeune fille" (i.e. your maiden/given name).

2. Not sure what "embassy" you're talking about, because the embassy in Paris is the US embassy, while the embassy in DC is the French embassy. The US Embassy in Paris has nothing at all to do with either visas or your marriage transcription (that's French bureaucracy) - and the French Embassy in DC is just handling your transcription and visa application, which honestly has nothing to do with the US government.

Suggestion: Leave your passport as is for the time being and look into changing your name on it after you get over to France (if that's what you want to do). Or, if you are in a big hurry to change you name on your passport ask for it to be changed to "Jane [Givenname] [Husband's-name]" so that both names appear. That was the old protocol for names, but it works better in France if you have "evidence" of your given name on your passport. 

Not sure what they're doing lately with the carte de séjour (though that won't come into play until you renew your in-passport titre de séjour at the end of your first year in France), but normally the form you fill out to get your carte de séjour will ask for both your given name and your married name and both may well appear on your card. 

I'm also not certain what the current protocol is, but last I knew, you can certainly change your name on your US passport but I believe that if you have held your current passport for more than a year or so, you're looking at basically just renewing it early - so you'll wind up paying full fees for a new passport if you are just looking to change your name on the passport. In lots of ways, it pays to take advantage of that "nom d'usage" thing here in France. And, by the time your US passport is up for renewal, you'll be better able to decide whether or not to actually make the change on your US passport and how. (Besides, I don't think the US Embassy in Paris is "available" yet for "informational appointments" - check the Embassy website, but they're pretty backlogged on those things for which in person appointments are absolutely required as it is.)


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## andthushesaid

Bevdeforges said:


> Or, if you are in a big hurry to change you name on your passport ask for it to be changed to "Jane [Givenname] [Husband's-name]" so that both names appear.


Not in a hurry, but I must renew it before applying for my visa anyway since it expires in January 2023.

Also, that’s actually what we chose anyway: to use both of our surnames. I mostly wanted to make sure that we weren’t getting ahead of ourselves by transcribing the marriage before a name change—but once again you answered my question beautifully!


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## andthushesaid

Bevdeforges said:


> Not sure what "embassy" you're talking about, because the embassy in Paris is the US embassy,


Honestly, this is where I’m still a bit of a dolt. Knowing the difference between consulates and embassies is still a struggle for some reason. I mostly just want to ensure that we are consulting each entity in a timely fashion. At this point, I guess we’ll just continue down the path of the visa, and once that is taken care of, I simply need to apply for my company transfer.



Bevdeforges said:


> OTOH, you can't apply for a spouse visa (actually "carte de séjour" - the residence permit) until you have established that you have lived together (in France, I believe it is) for at least 6 months.


A few more questions on this older post in the thread:

1. Since we were married in the US and will have transcribed the marriage, receiving the _livret de famille_, am I eligible to apply for the spouse visa? Or does the 6-month rule of residence together in France still apply, meaning I would have to begin with a long-stay visa and apply for the spouse visa after a period of time has passed?

2. Does the spouse visa simply act as the _carte de séjour_? And if I need to begin with a long-stay visa as mentioned above, would I need to apply for the _carte de séjour_ separately?


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## Bevdeforges

1. Once you have the livret de famille you're "street legal" - the 6 month requirement only applies to those who come to France first and then get married so have to apply for the carte de séjour in France without having the "spouse visa" applied for outside France.

2. A visa is a document that allows you to enter France (for a particular period of time and purpose). The carte de séjour is your residence permit - which allows you to remain in France as a "resident." When you first get to France (on your spouse visa) you will have to register with the OFII to validate your visa (which is stuck into your passport) and start the meetings at the OFII to set up and fulfill your "contract of integration." So, for your first year, your visa in your passport becomes your titre de séjour (residence permit) - at the end of your first year in France, you must renew your residence permit at which time you'll get a carte de séjour (i.e. an actual card to carry rather than having to always have your passport with you). 

And to anticipate the next question <g> - if you get your visa (and thus your initial "titre de séjour") in your current passport, but then have to renew your residence permit after you renew your passport and get a new one, you'll need to carry both passports with you for a time as they no longer can (or will) transfer a visa or titre de séjour from your old passport to your new one. Luckily, the US still returns your old passport to you - but because it's expired you may need to produce a current passport for i.d. purposes. Once you have your carte de séjour (the actual card version), you don't really need to carry your passport around any more. (But in most situations here where you are required to present i.d. you are notified ahead of time - and even if it's the police who ask for i.d., you generally get 24 hours to return to the police station with your passport.) To be honest, I only ever used my US passport once as i.d. when writing a check in a store - and even here folks don't use checks like that much (if at all) these days. Life gets much easier once you have that actual card (carte de séjour), and even better once you take French nationality and can present a CNI (carte nationale d'identité).


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## andthushesaid

Bevdeforges said:


> So, for your first year, your visa in your passport becomes your titre de séjour (residence permit) - at the end of your first year in France, you must renew your residence permit at which time you'll get a carte de séjour (i.e. an actual card to carry rather than having to always have your passport with you).


Okay, NOW I get the delineation between _titre_ and _carte_! Thank you so much 😅



Bevdeforges said:


> And to anticipate the next question <g> - if you get your visa (and thus your initial "titre de séjour") in your current passport, but then have to renew your residence permit after you renew your passport and get a new one, you'll need to carry both passports with you for a time as they no longer can (or will) transfer a visa or titre de séjour from your old passport to your new one.


Great anticipation on this—that's so helpful.

I'm definitely required to renew my passport because the visa application requires a travel document which is valid no less than 3 months after its intended expiration (my current passport expires in less than a year). I'm wondering if it's most efficacious to simply (a) hold off on pursuing the US name change [given + husband's] until after having lived in France for a bit, and thus (b) renew my passport with my given name only prior to applying for my visa.



Bevdeforges said:


> Legally, in France your name is always your given name at birth. If you choose to take your husband's family name, that becomes your "name d'usage" - and most forms and other official purposes will ask for both your "nom" and either your "nom d'usage" or your "nom de jeune fille" (i.e. your maiden/given name).


And since my 'nom' stays the same in France regardless, I assume stating my 'nom d'usage' on French paperwork would not cause any foreseeable issues if my legal US name is still simply my given name?


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## andthushesaid

*Another update for those interested:*



andthushesaid said:


> All the above documents were delivered to us by mail in less than two weeks, which I personally found astounding. I’d like to call it luck, but my conversation with the Illinois Secretary of State led me to believe that vital record requests are going faster since COVID-19 hit, simply because in-person business no longer interferes with back-of-house processing.


My presumption above is seeming more and more true... My marriage transcription application was sent to the French Consulate in DC on 31/01/2022; and I received my _livret de famille_ on 17/02/2022!

*Another question, out of curiosity:*

Our _livret de famille_ is green, whereas most we've seen have been blue. An internet search also shows a red. At first we thought it might denote whether the marriage ceremony took place in a foreign country, but our friends who were married in Moscow have a blue one... Any insight as to what the colors might signify?


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## Bevdeforges

andthushesaid said:


> Any insight as to what the colors might signify?


Here, the color and exact format of the livret de famille seem to be a function of the mairie in which you were married. I guess that, as long as they contain the relevant information the color or design of the cover of the livret really makes no particular difference.


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