# How I Spent Semana Santa by FHBOY



## FHBOY

By almost overwhelming popular demand, I have reluctantly agreed to put down some thought on our trip to Ajijic/Chapala. The anecdotes are true, the opinions are mine (or a combination of MsFHBOY and me), there will be a lot of naivete which comes from being a newbie and neophyte. I also wish to acknowledge at the outset two of our fellow posters who took the time to meet us, RVGRINGO and PAPPABEE. Having someone you "know" even if it is only via a keyboard, when you come into a new place makes it that much easier, so thank you both. We missed meeting GRIZZY, but we'll get her on the upswing in August.

This was our second trip to Ajijic, third trip to Mexico. As most of you know we fell in love with the Mexico of PV, until we traveled here last year and then found a community with people who cared, who were a lot like us and where time ran slower. Let's just say that compared to Ajijic, PV is the big city, and MsFHBOY and I are from NYC, so use that as a comparison.

We had to take this trip this week as MsFHBOY could only get Easter Week off. We arrived in GDL on Saturday afternoon, United was a good 8 hrs from Baltimore...about what you've come to expect in flying these days. Passport control was no real hassle - it was Mexican - it took time and patience. Customs was, excuse me, a joke. They x-rayed the bags and we were through. Since we are explorers we opted to rent a car for our stay. Here is your first bit of *TIP ONE*: what ever the rate you find online for your rental, will not be the rate you pay. With a 10% deductible insurance option, ours went from $96 USD to over $270 for the eight days. The car was OK, a Nissan TIIDA, but it would have been nice of the lenses on the gauges were clean. But we were tired and that little annoyance was not worth the fight. We found out that even at the airport when you ask for directions, like to the rent-a-car counter, you'll get three different sets of answers.

We drove down from GDL to our house rental we located through VRBO. It is very beautiful, on a privada about 3 blocks straight shot to the plaza. We love La Jardin - it seems to be one of the main places expats meet and greet, the food is good, and all the people are friendly. One of our waiters was also an ex-pat, a Mexican from LA. If you are tired or just too lazy to scout out a place to eat *TIP TWO* with rare exceptions restaurants close at 9:00, stop there. By the time we finished our meal, and a couple of beers it was about 7:00, and we went to sleep, yes we live exciting lives.

Palm Sunday - the weather was fabulous, we met RV for breakfast at Delicias in Chapala - good food good prices and as I wrote previously we went back to his house. Being still a bit tired we came back to Ajijic siesta'ed and then went back into the plaza, having no idea what to expect. Mexicans love to celebrate, yes a generalization, and on Palm Sunday the plaza was all done up with decorations, mariachi bands, vendors, adults, kids, everyone talking and enjoying themselves. About 5:00 or so we noticed people throwing a layer of what turned out to be alfalfa the length of four blocks or more completely covering the cobblestones and leading up to the cathedral making a vivid green carpet. We were told, [because we are not as easily knowledgeable as some], that this was the ceremony marking the day the Jesus entered Jerusalem with his twelve disciples and it was the first of the re-enactments that would take place this week. Of course Jesus was supposed to arrive at 6:00 but didn't show up until 7:30, but I suppose that that means he was on time in Mexico [I do not want to strike you as sacrilegious - it was a moving spiritual moment watching true believers connect with something that no one could helped but be moved]. People, ourselves included got into the processional to the cathedral and watched the ceremony.

So it was now Sunday night, and not knowing too well about the 9:00 dinner, we decided to go to a seafood restaurant in Chapala that RV pointed out to us. We didn't get there. This was our first AHA moment of the trip: different strokes for different folks or *TIP THREE* know your limitations. We drove into Chapala and got into the worst traffic I have seen in a long time, and people, masses and masses of people and all we saw were Mexicans. We learned that that is too foreign for us at this time in our lives. As much as we do not want to end up as Palm Beach Gringos (more about them later) - and there of some of them - getting so far into living Mexican in Chapala was far out of our comfort zone for us. So we looped around the Malecon and drove back to Ajijic to find everything was closed here too, but we'd stopped at the Wal-Mart during the day so we had some stuff to eat. A word about the Wal-Mart in Chapala - it is not your neighborhood Wal-Mart, nor it is even the PV Wal-Mart. It is OK, but when we return, it will not become our main shopping hang out, there are better smaller tiendas to buy staples. Also a word about two "******" institutions: Los Toritos and Super Lake - not going to be our place to shop either but there are a lot better places to shop. Sunday ended with a beer and a Monte Christo - life was good.

The narrative is getting way too long for this chapter, but there is so much to say. To end this evening, I need to tell you that you need to put everything you have heard or read into the context of seeing through others eyes, mine included. These towns are almost like lands time forgot - by that I mean time is not as relevant. If you are not prepared to put your Type A personality into some type of storage container, you will go crazy here. We are usually in bed by ten here, because there is nothing to do, not because being out at night is dangerous, it is just that just about everything truly Mexican closes down. The casinos stay open, the local Black Coffee chain coffee house stays open, but since Mexicans start their workday at 7:00 am in many cases, theirs is not a late night economy in the place like this. *TIP FOUR*: if your lifestyle includes night life, clubs, bars, etc - not in Ajijic- maybe in Chapala, but not in Ajijic. There are movie theaters, I cannot comment on, because I haven't been there.

More tomorrow - after the darn roosters wake me up again to another (not sarcasm) great day. Thanks for reading.


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## Grizzy

Love it! I hope you are not trying to drive anywhere today. The traffic this weekend will be brutal. There will be a lot going on at the plaza all day and night. Let me know if you are heading that way and hopefully we can do the meet up!

I too never shop at Superlake or el Torito's unless I absolutely have to. 

And there are places open late in Ajijic but you do get in the habit of dining early. 

Looking forward to more chapters! And did you love the rain yesterday? I feel like I am in a time warp with the precipitation we have had in Feb and yesterday. So unusual and so refreshing!


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## RVGRINGO

Too bad that the Tapatio crowds scared you off in Chapala, where a couple of million are expected this week. You really must, on another visit, explore the Chapala Malecon and the 'downtown' area. You'll be surprised how many expats are around, and by how much English is spoken; if you ask. It really isn't "the deep end of the pool", but as 'newbies' and metropolitan types, you will probably fit into Ajijic; at least in your early years in Mexico. Then, who knows where your 'adventure' may lead.


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## Detailman

I enjoyed your post FHBoy. Well done. I look forward to the next installment. As expected, it is interesting and rewarding to see things through your eyes. Gracias!  Remember to try Ajijic Tango, if you can. We love it. For the weekend you will need a reservation. If not the wait could be hours.


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## FHBOY

RVGRINGO said:


> Too bad that the Tapatio crowds scared you off in Chapala, where a couple of million are expected this week. You really must, on another visit, explore the Chapala Malecon and the 'downtown' area. You'll be surprised how many expats are around, and by how much English is spoken; if you ask. It really isn't "the deep end of the pool", but as 'newbies' and metropolitan types, you will probably fit into Ajijic; at least in your early years in Mexico. Then, who knows where your 'adventure' may lead.


RV: You are correct. It will take time but I feel I will come to see this place more through your vision after a while. Fortunately we will have the time and the persistence,


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## Detailman

FHBOY said:


> RV: You are correct. It will take time but I feel I will come to see this place more through your vision after a while. Fortunately we will have the time and the persistence,


I definitely agree with RVGringo. You just happened to see Chapala at the wrong time. Seeing it through a "mob" of visitors does not do it justice. There are many fine restuarants and we have enjoyed walks on the Malecon and the downtown area during "normal" times. We will definitely explore rentals in Chapala as it has much to offer. On those certain days of the year when it gets overcrowded you can either enjoy your own place for a few days (hibernate with a jug of margaritas, etc.) or take a trip somewhere else. Or simly leave your car and walk among the throngs. It will all come together. Just relax while it does!


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## FHBOY

*Altitude and Attitude*

Monday was our day to meet with the realtor who I connected with to look at rentals. Let's call her Agent M. I found Agent M online, went through the listings and she was very email responsive. If you find an entry on another thread, you know the result - but what I was not prepared for was the dismissive attitude. It was as if my business wasn't important to her, and maybe it wasn't considering the rental we wanted wasn't until January of next year, but we left with a very bad taste.

Walking around was the rest of the day, it is a bit warm now and the effects of heat and altitude was beginning to show on this out of shape body. Walking became an exeercise that could last maybe an hours up and down hills. But what did I see on these and other walks? I saw things that could make you smile and things that, even that early on in our stay, confirmed out opinion of our decision. We saw friendly people, busy people, we stopped in a few little tiendas and were met with courtesy and patience and helpful advice.

Oh, a word about advice and directions. We learned that if you ask directions to three people to get to the same place, you will get three separate instructions and only 66% of them will be correct. Is that a critique? Hardly, it is a great thing, and I find it no more bad than humorous. And it applies to whomever you ask, Mexicans or gringos, there seems to to a "thing" here that does not allow anyone to say, "I don't know." everybody wants to help. That is marvelous - Monday I was recovering from my cervesas and Montecristo, so we made it an early night. As mentioned on another thread, we didn't eat dinner as we had had eaten two meals before that and just weren't hungry for a third. I do seem to live on soda, jugo de naranja, and those delicious dreaded pastries you pick up.

By Tuesday the hangover was receding and we indulged breakfast at Le Jardin in the plaza once again. We seem to have this problem, we wake up too early. Maybe it's the darn rooster, but too early, or not early enough, What, not early enough? Yes, I would get up in the middle of the night and wander our on the upstairs patio and stare at the heavens...just stare. That is a most marvelous sight...seeing the stars you've known from the Hayden Planetarium were supposed to be there, but except for rare summer nights in the country, you've never seen and knowing that for the rest of your life, you can get lost in that part of heaven. It was like walking into a dark blue/black room that had multifaceted crystals and diamonds all over the place, and never wanting to leave. People who live here must begin at some point to take that for granted, but to me, I can't see how. Maybe one of those things I will use my remaining brain cells on with be astronomy, why not?

Oh - a diversion from this self-indulgent drivel - I know that retirement can be a world of why not (even if you don't cruise on Royal Caribbean), but being out of our native country opens up a whole new genre of "why nots?" like maybe MsFHBOY will allow me to get a 150cc motor bike 

We cooked ourselves breakfast at our VRBO on Wednesday, the eggs are so yellow, the toast and breads have a sweetness to them, and don't get me started on the OJ and the coffee, and headed out again. We were feeling pretty down about our meeting with Agent M and walked thought town and stopped at Agent B's office. There was an entirely different attitude there. Now I am not that observant as to suggest that there was a difference because one was Mexican and the other a ******, or perhaps it was just that, regardless of that, they had a different way of doing business. We were a drop in, no appointment. We sat down with Agent B and gave the same set of parameters. Within a few minutes we were shown many alternatives of places but more than that, we were given a different possible scenario of how we could accomplish our aim of living here on this trip knowing we had a house to live in. What sounded like hopelessness two days day ago, turned into hope. Agent B acted like the business was important and some way it would be done. We saw a house online we loved and left with a promise that within our parameters we would get what we wanted, when we wanted it at a price that was within our range.

We couldn't see the house, because the current tenant was being tough, but Agent B said that before we left this week we would. Our day was brighter.

We went to Guad by bus - what a great experience - buses, taxis, mass transportation and dirt cheap. We're from Baltimore, and no one but a "certain class" rides mass transit. This was more like New York, everybody rides mass transit. We got the the Cathedral, went through the crafts fair - I do recommend it for a visit, the goods are great and if we had wanted to get "stuff" the selection and quality was immense. I had promised MsFHBOY a new wedding band and we went to the Jewelry Exchange (Joyeria) and found what we were looking for. It is like a Guad 47th Street, you can easily be ripped off, but if you know your way around jewelry, it is worth the trip. We ended the trip at the huge market, but it was too crowded and we were too tired so we hopped a $4 USD cab ride back to the bus station for our trip back to Ajijic.

Wednesday's only real disappointment was dinner, at a restaurant on the Malecon in Ajijic. You only learn from your errors - so chalk it up.

I've observed something here that makes this place even better and nicer, closer to the place I want to be. There is a good attitude of live and let live regardless of race, religion or sexual preference. I believe there is a good size Gay/Lesbian community here and that never enters into greetings, discussions or affects people. It seems that people here just came here to get away from that type of thing, where divisions were created to keep people apart, to a place where things of commonality allow them to live together with respect for one another. I was back in the 60's when I met a man named R who is black. We never knew each other before, but our commonality of being about the same age allowed us to go places in even the small dialog we had that I could not think of doing in the US. It was like we were looking for things to agree on or form a social bond on than those things that tear people apart. Like I say, I am a neophyte and maybe my glasses are tooooo rosy, but it people like R and the man with the two Pekinese pooches, Ava and Coco are just other people you meet and talk with - then the vibe here must be as I expect it to be.

Another word on people watching - Palm Beach Gringos - yes I saw them, listened to them in their speech amongst themselves and in interactions with business people. I suppose that they have the same right to exist as I do, that for as many R people I meet there will be Palm Beach Gringos, but then it is my choice to associate or not. I suspect that many of them could be snowbirds, I cannot understand how you can live here full time and still have the attitude. Yes, I have prejudices also, and PBGs just tweak my nose. And where do they get those outfits? They are immaculate, perfect and so stereotypical...listen to me...so judgmental.

Before I end today's chapter, a word about my feelings of unease in Chapala...I have not made peace with them yet. I know it may be the wrong time, like going to Times Square on New Years Eve if you're from Peoria, so since I have a lot more time to live, it is one of the things that I can learn more about and by learning more and lving more, become more comfortable with. I am sure that if I read my postings on Chapala five years from now, maybe even two years from now, I would know there has been a change.

My point is that everyone is different. RV and Pappabee have lived all over the world and know how to be more resilient, I have lived in the US all my life, except for a year of University in Tel Aviv, so to leave the East Coast of the US world for a world of Mexicans partying was a great shock. Today, Good Friday, we went walking on the malecon in Ajijic, and spent time in the plaza. There were no gringos in sight on the malecon and the experience was marvelous.

Oh, and rain - sorry guys it was my request to experience it and standing out in it - how great!


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## jasavak

Well I still haven't found what I'm looking for either . I know big cities aren't my thing and I really don't like the southern humid beach areas . 

I was in Rosarito beach last month and had an opposite experience .

We visited 5 week days and the town had no people . All the tourist condos were nearly vacant gone and there wasn't very much going on in town . An unusually cold wind was blowing and it kept the streets and beaches nearly empty .


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## Detailman

Another nice post FHBoy. I look forward to the next installment. Enjoy your last few days. Tell me if you get to Ajijic Tango.


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## FHBOY

Detailman said:


> Another nice post FHBoy. I look forward to the next installment. Enjoy your last few days. Tell me if you get to Ajijic Tango.


D: Not this time, I usually do not wait 45+ minutes for any restaurant, and reservations for this week are a joke. We're going across the street to Los Telares - we ate there the last time we were here and it was superior. Let's see what a week of dining around does to that opinion. FHBOY


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## FHBOY

*Not to be Believed*

According to the statistics over 3,000 people have viewed my drivel. I am flattered and shocked. And extremely grateful.


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## Grizzy

Los Telares was fabulous a few nights ago. Great band with horns, good service, the baked garlic was superb and we had a side show of a poor guy who was allergic to nuts taking a bite of the creme brulee and realizing it had nuts in it. He seemed OK and rushed off to the clinic. I wanted to swipe his desert but I am selfish that way :eyebrows:


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## mickisue1

Grizzy said:


> Los Telares was fabulous a few nights ago. Great band with horns, good service, the baked garlic was superb and we had a side show of a poor guy who was allergic to nuts taking a bite of the creme brulee and realizing it had nuts in it. He seemed OK and rushed off to the clinic. I wanted to swipe his desert but I am selfish that way :eyebrows:


Creme brûlée?

If we'd been there, you would have had to fight my husband for it.


PS: I'm in love with the formatting software. It automatically put the accent circumflex and the accent aigu over the brûlée.


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## terrybahena

FHBOY said:


> According to the statistics over 3,000 people have viewed my drivel. I am flattered and shocked. And extremely grateful.


wellllllll.........I know I have clicked on this thread several times as people add comments so maybe it's only 2980......jk! (just kidding); I always look at your threads FHoy cause I like the way you roll!:clap2:


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## Grizzy

mickisue1 said:


> Creme brûlée?
> 
> If we'd been there, you would have had to fight my husband for it.
> 
> 
> PS: I'm in love with the formatting software. It automatically put the accent circumflex and the accent aigu over the brûlée.


We ended up ordering two deserts in memory of the uneaten Creme brulee. No accents but I would have eaten the words without them


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## Detailman

FHBOY said:


> D: Not this time, I usually do not wait 45+ minutes for any restaurant, and reservations for this week are a joke. We're going across the street to Los Telares - we ate there the last time we were here and it was superior. Let's see what a week of dining around does to that opinion. FHBOY


We've had a nice meal there too. But the last time there I got food poisoning and believe me I have never been so sick in my whole life. (I think that it was the appetizer that had probably been kept slightly warmed for the entire afternoon with the weather in the high 80's.)That was the first week of a two month stay and if I could have boarded a plane to go back home I would have written the entire trip off. Can happen anywhere!


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## FHBOY

*Markets, Meals and What To Do*

Like everyone who is here, it seems, we had gone to the open air market on Wednesday before going to Guad. Man we did a lot on Wednesday! Again, here is an acculturation thing. I am not an open air market person, whether it is the Farmers Markets in Baltimore, or Ajijic. It is just not my thing. To make those things work you've got to be a knowledgeable shopper and a bargainer, I am neither. I mean I can use a computer to get a bargain, it is at my pace, but standing in front of a vendor, that isn't what I am good at. Now, MsFHBOY, she's good at it. She knows prices, so I am the fifth wheel on these trips. The market is an amazing thing, but I will need to get around a cultural thing: buying fresh fish, and chicken at a stand that is not refrigerated. Yes I know it is FRESH - by definition - so why do I find unease at buying it? Cultural Anthropology 101 - the reason the Armed Services had to teach troops to eat roaches rather than die and the difficulty with it. So I stood in the background like so many of my gender and demography, yes we are a distinct genus at open air markets, while the hunter gatherer did her thing. Sadly, I was not alone.

A word on traffic. Well more than a word. I suppose it is one's POV that determines the extent of severity of any situation, so it is with the traffic at Lakeside during Semana Sancta. To those who have lived here, it is horrible, to those who have visited at other times of the year, it is horrible, to a guy from Baltimore, "What's your problem, man?!" It is no worse than anyhting I face on a daily basis, a little more weird to be sure, but no worse. I actually saw this turn signal hyperbole in action: *TIP 5 - a left turn signal* from the car in front of you should not be construed to mean they are turning left, it can mean that they are pulling off the the right to slow down/let you pass. Conclusion, can't wait to get back here in August and then in February so I can gun my car up and down the carraterra at 80 kph - that's what I am told it is like.

Wednesday also brought good news, Agent B got us an appointment to see the house we wanted to rent. We had to miss Judy's Thursday morning seminar to do it, but it was worth it. Ladies and gentlemen - as of February 1 we will be renting - long term, a great house in Villa Nova, at the price we want, with the stuff we want, in a neighborhood we want. Agent B gave of the ethnic breakdown of just our black at it is not a ****** ghetto - that was very important to us, our neighbors are Mexican, the guy down the block is a ******. It is an all inclusive lease - which by me is just fine. I give Agent B a "cheque" each month and Agent B takes care of everything. The place even allows cats! That one thing has made this whole trip worthwhile. *TIP 6* - you cannot make a move of this type in your life from behind a keyboard. You need to be whee you think you want to go, you need to meet face to face with those people you have found online, you need to go further and start walking the streets to find those agents/realtors you cannot find online. You need to talk to people in restaurants, shops, wherever you go and gather more info. Maybe in the US the keyboard is a mighty tool, but in this culture I have discovered it is only the training wheels to help you get started.

Enter Thursday afternoon and the Lake Chapala Society and our meeting with Pappabee. I've said this before, using the contact we make here makes tings easier. Pappabee spent a good hour with us, discussing everything from getting acculturated, fitting in, and just the good things about life here. No, it was not always rosy, but it gave us a touchstone and perspective on living here. There is a peace of mind knowing that you know at least three or four people and are now just a totally alone stranger. FHBOY and MsFHBOY hope that we can provide that touchstone to others who come here, to find out if this is their next life adventure. Tip to residents, good restaurant: El Sarape on the Carreterra - had mid day meal there - really good, and I once again asked that they speak Spanish with me and they were very accommodating with me.

We missed the Holy Thursday ceremonies only due to our maladjustment to the heat and diet - IOW, we were a bit stomach-y and too tired to make it to the plaza. But here is the thing *TIP 7* - if the main purpose of your trip was like ours, then to push yourself to see things as if you are a tourist and never coming back is not the way to go. Each place we went, every place we saw, all the places we stopped or did not stop, will be here for us in August and then in February. Once you understand that you are making a life decision, not a tourist agenda, there is a certain freedom.

Oh at some point we discovered Donas Doughnuts - do not miss it - although we understand she has just increased the price - darn these high prices are going to be a deal breaker for us!

By yesterday, Friday, we had seen and done just about everything we'd wanted to do, I slept in and MsFHBOY wandered over to the plaza. She said it was jammed and once again had missed the Good Friday production (next year). * TIP 8* - if you are looking for a constantly alive lively entertaining and vibrant life a la a resort/tourist town, Ajijic is not the place for you. If you are looking for a Type A social calendar [maybe], this is not the place for you. But if you are looking to live a less stressful, more human contact life, where relationships are built of words, and deeds, handshakes and nods and smiles, you will find you home here. It appears from the people we met that boredom is optional. *TIP 9* - if your lifestyle means getting up at 7:30 or 8:00 every and then having "no time" to get anything done, what I have found out is that the day begins at maybe 10:00 am or even 11:00, it can be as full as you want it to be and if you choose it ends early also - the 16 hour NOB day seems to me not the norm here - but I could be wrong. Put aside the idea that the quality of your day has nothing to do with the quantity of hours but what you choose to do with them.

More than anything this trip has reinforced to us that there is a great life beyond the keyboard, beyond the Gran Falloon of the office, the PTA, the Ladies Auxiliary, the yoga class once a week. Here is a place where you meet the people from your yoga class in the street, you see the guy next door, you have the time to find out if you and he really communicate. And, yes, I am sure there will be those who you will find you do not want to associate with - fine - you can't like everyone.

Today is Saturday, many of the shops that were closed yesterday are once again open, and our day started at 10:00, we went to the Animal Shelter Shop, saw all the kitties, the flamingos, the people who work there, and then having nothing much more we "wanted/had" to do, we decided to take MsFHBOY's fantastic camera on a YouTube type trip from east of Ajijic to the location of our rental to show our kids. On the way we, unfortunately , found La Casa de Waffles. Now I will miss the iced cappuccinos and the food. I thought it was going to be another ****** hang out, we were the only ones there. I love being there like that. Spent the next couple of hours in a hamacas, sleeping off breakfast which we had at 1300 hours, and began packing for the trip home.

I will not bore you with the details of flying back to the USA, we've all done it. Actually I am packing my laptop and not using it as a carry on, I never seem to use it while I am traveling.

What have I found: a place I thought could no longer exist; a trip to self realization unencumbered by the pressures of posing and fitting in to a place that you may not need to be for your own peace; a place to stop, to think thoughts you've given up having because you don't have the time; a possibility that those social skills of communication you may have thought you were rusty at, maybe you aren't as rusty as you thought. Maybe here in this place you can be the actor, teaching, artist, carpenter you were "meant" to be. 

Truly, this week has shown to me that it is not only preferable to start a new chapter in your book, but possible - taking those things you shouldn't leave behind, and casting away old fears that you needn't pack.

Thank you all for following along on this self indulgence - it has been more fun for me to write it out that it has for you to read it. Oh, I hope things I've written here do not die on the screen, I hope you will take some of the points and run with them - discovery is a community. Peace.


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## Detailman

Thank you FHBoy. The trip through your observations was enoyable and rewarding.


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## makaloco

I enjoyed reading about your adventures, and it's great that you found a place to rent. I can *soooo* relate to your feelings about shopping and bargaining, which are not my thing at all! Have a safe trip back, and enjoy the videos and memories. The next several months will pass faster than you could ever imagine.


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## mickisue1

makaloco said:


> I enjoyed reading about your adventures, and it's great that you found a place to rent. I can *soooo* relate to your feelings about shopping and bargaining, which are not my thing at all! Have a safe trip back, and enjoy the videos and memories. The next several months will pass faster than you could ever imagine.


Farmers' Markets? Bargaining?

I am SO IN!

I am all tappy-footedly impatient, waiting for our FMs to open.

My favorite way to spend a Sat or Sunday morning is wandering the aisles, deciding which of the lovely fresh items will be going home in my shopping bags.

And the conversations with the pregnant farmer, talking about the piglets they buy from the University of Wi, bottle feed and then let roam to forage?

Who could pay enough for such riches?


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## FHBOY

D: Did get our goodbye meal a Ajijic Tango - no wait - walked right in. Other restaurant where we had "reservations" ran out of food. Waiter, Jason, from LA.


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## Detailman

FHBOY said:


> D: Did get our goodbye meal a Ajijic Tango - no wait - walked right in. Other restaurant where we had "reservations" ran out of food. Waiter, Jason, from LA.


How did you enjoy it? Our filet mignon was always perfect and their special flank steak - wonderful.

As you can see your posts were very well received and helped to stir up excitement for others planning their move to Mexico.


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## FHBOY

*Epilogue*

I appreciate all of the feedback and the views of my drivel. 

Now that I am back in Baltimore and retired I have a new perspective on our move. There are fears that accompany many traumatic life event- and trauma is not only bad but good. On my flight down I had many of those: Is this really the place? Will I be able to find a place to live? Can I really see myself making a life there? Can I adjust to the pace/climate?

Also I have gained some face-to-face social networking advice and perspective, not only from those here, but from those who sit in the plaza, those I met in the restaurants who have done the same thing. Look, nobody who came to Ajijic and decided that Lakeside was going to be their place is going to tell you it was the wrong thing. It is like telling you that I bought the Ferrari, but I really don't don't like it...like that will happen.

But I listened to a lady at La Jardin yesterday - who moved from Seattle five years ago. Sold all her "stuff" packed her dogs and husband in a Town & Country minivan and moved with only the "stuff" she could fit in the minivan - she said it was a freedom feeling, something she had ever done (she is a former airline flight attendant), leaving her stuff.

That was something and is something I will have to deal with this coming year: What of my-our current "stuff" is worth taking with us? What is the value of sentimentality? Is it worth taking my Grandmother's antique china hutch on a van at some yet unknown price, or leave it here with the kids, sell it, consign it? Some things are easy (now) - my baby grand the one I have played for about 55 years - is not coming with me - the value of sentiment is outweighed by the cost of the move and retuning, etc etc etc.

So it will be a year of looking around at our "stuff" and saying: Is it going to be needed/missed/used in Ajijic, or just go into another closet in another house?

*TIP 11* - Whoever out there thinks that such a life move as this can be made on the spur of the moment, on a whim, as a reaction to a vacation, without taking into account and studying long range consequences and careful planning is fooling themselves and IMHO dooming themselves to failure.

Opening a new book, writing a new chapter is not something you do overnight - every author spends weeks, months, years in research and study before committing a word to paper. I am glad I had the chance last week to do more research, and will return again in August for another week of research.

Dinner was fabulous - had the 9oz filet - way to big to finish. Can still taste it. Try the apple strudel with ice cream - fantastic!


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## Detailman

FHBOY said:


> That was something and is something I will have to deal with this coming year: What of my-our current "stuff" is worth taking with us? What is the value of sentimentality? Is it worth taking my Grandmother's antique china hutch on a van at some yet unknown price, or leave it here with the kids, sell it, consign it? Some things are easy (now) - my baby grand the one I have played for about 55 years - is not coming with me - the value of sentiment is outweighed by the cost of the move and retuning, etc etc etc.
> 
> So it will be a year of looking around at our "stuff" and saying: Is it going to be needed/missed/used in Ajijic, or just go into another closet in another house?


 

Depending on the quality and value of your furniture, etc. have you ever considered putting it in storage for a year or two? Some might be negative towards such an action (viewing it as defeatist) but for some individuals it could be a way of hedging their bets and that is not always a bad thing.

It's like a best case/worst case scenario. Yes, if later you decide to get rid of it all it is an extra step but so what. It can be done. Yes, it is an extra expense but "some" individuals would view it as insurance. None of us ever "hope" to claim on insurance although we sometimes pay plenty to have it. The same with this scenario. Best case scenario - you are delighted with your decision and on a later trip you rid yourself of your final ties to Baltimore. In the worst case scenario you have the basis to start over again in Baltimore or wherever you like as all your possessions are boxed, etc. and ready for a move to ......

Again it would depend on your psyche and the value of your possessions. (Not worth keeping low valued items as they are just as easily replaced.)

Just a thought and not for everyone.


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## TundraGreen

Detailman said:


> Depending on the quality and value of your furniture, etc. have you ever considered putting it in storage for a year or two? Some might be negative towards such an action (viewing it as defeatist) but for some individuals it could be a way of hedging their bets and that is not always a bad thing.
> 
> It's like a best case/worst case scenario. Yes, if later you decide to get rid of it all it is an extra step but so what. It can be done. Yes, it is an extra expense but "some" individuals would view it as insurance. None of us ever "hope" to claim on insurance although we sometimes pay plenty to have it. The same with this scenario. Best case scenario - you are delighted with your decision and on a later trip you rid yourself of your final ties to Baltimore. In the worst case scenario you have the basis to start over again in Baltimore or wherever you like as all your possessions are boxed, etc. and ready for a move to ......
> 
> Again it would depend on your psyche and the value of your possessions. (Not worth keeping low valued items as they are just as easily replaced.)
> 
> Just a thought and not for everyone.


I concur. I have two friends who packed up and moved, one to Mexico and one to Panama. After a year they were both back in the US. They both were convinced it was a permanent move and got rid of everything, only to discover that it wasn't what they expected. I don't think anyone can really know how they will feel in a place until they have been there for awhile. I was the opposite. I came here expecting to be here two years and leave. It is going on five years now and any thoughts of leaving are four years in the past. I used to be really careful not to burn bridges behind me. As I get older I don't worry about things like that much, but, even so, if it were me going to a new country, I would probably keep an option open to change my mind. That is why many of us recommend against people buying houses in Mexico until they have been in the specific location for a year or two.


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## Detailman

TundraGreen said:


> I concur. I have two friends who packed up and moved, one to Mexico and one to Panama. After a year they were both back in the US. They both were convinced it was a permanent move and got rid of everything, only to discover that it wasn't what they expected. I don't think anyone can really know how they will feel in a place until they have been there for awhile. I was the opposite. I came here expecting to be here two years and leave. It is going on five years now and any thoughts of leaving are four years in the past. I used to be really careful not to burn bridges behind me. As I get older I don't worry about things like that much, but, even so, *if it were me going to a new country, I would probably keep an option open to change my mind. That is why many of us recommend against people buying houses in Mexico until they have been in the specific location for a year or two.*


Very, very wise advice that very few Group 3 expats disagree with. The vast "majority" should not buy for a year or two. It can take that long before one knows for sure. It may be that Mexico is the answer but the current location is not right for you.

Some may not need the lifeline but for those that are unsure or simply want the "option" it can be a real lifesaver if they find out that Mexico is not "their paradise".


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I concur. I have two friends who packed up and moved, one to Mexico and one to Panama. After a year they were both back in the US. They both were convinced it was a permanent move and got rid of everything, only to discover that it wasn't what they expected. I don't think anyone can really know how they will feel in a place until they have been there for awhile. I was the opposite. I came here expecting to be here two years and leave. It is going on five years now and any thoughts of leaving are four years in the past. I used to be really careful not to burn bridges behind me. As I get older I don't worry about things like that much, but, even so, if it were me going to a new country, I would probably keep an option open to change my mind. That is why many of us recommend against people buying houses in Mexico until they have been in the specific location for a year or two.


I also think this is excellent advice, in particular, for those who have spent little or no time in Mexico before moving here. Even for those who have vacationed and traveled extensively here, it's still a good idea. Living in a country is far different from spending time there as a tourist.


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## mickisue1

While I agree with the advice in theory, I have found, over the past decade, that I have become so sad about the direction of my country of birth, that I don't think that it fits for me.

Should we find that our original destination pinches our toes, we'd look for another foreign home, rather than moving back to MN.

That said, I think that it IS good advice, in general.

And, of course, MX is a big country. It's not like, if you do rent initially, that there is not some other place you can pack your van and settle in.


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## Isla Verde

Detailman said:


> Some may not need the lifeline but for those that are unsure or simply want the "option" it can be a real lifesaver if they find out that Mexico is not "their paradise".


Anyone looking for "their paradise" for more than an extended vacation is bound to be disappointed.


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## RVGRINGO

If you can't make up your mind, or if you even have doubts; don't move yet. Shipping household goods is extremely expensive; more than the cost of replacement in Mexico, in most cases. Storage just acts like an unwanted anchor, or maybe a tow rope pulling you back. Otherwise, it is a disposal problem.
So, I suggest making up your mind, disposing of whatever you can't move in your own vehicle, and making the move. Otherwise; you aren't ready.
This new world of 'internet research' is creating a generation of insecurity. We old folks moved on a whim, or after a quick look, cut the ties to the previous life and got on with it. There was no internet, cell phone, GPS, etc. We never concerned ourselves about 'getting there'; we just followed the map and our noses. We also didn't expect to have US goods, movies, TV, or anything else. Now that some of it is here, we don't consider it an improvement and some of the new arrivals aren't either. They still want to bring their 'good ideas' with them and change things even faster. In a decade we've gone from one stop light to gridlock and the infrastructure just can't keep up with too much change too fast. If I had any energy left, I might be looking for a 'more Mexican' part of Mexico.


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## Detailman

Isla Verde said:


> Anyone looking for "their paradise" for more than an extended vacation is bound to be disappointed.


That's why "their paradise" is italicized. Everyone’s idea is somewhat different and I do not deny anyone their dreams. That is what keeps people going. Sometimes reality really sucks!! 

If someone wants to go through life always feeling the glass is half full I commend them over those who go through life thinking the glass is half empty. I am sure that you will agree that those people (half empty) are a real drag and not fun to be around. I like the upbeat individuals.


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## Detailman

RVGRINGO said:


> If you can't make up your mind, or if you even have doubts; don't move yet. Shipping household goods is extremely expensive; more than the cost of replacement in Mexico, in most cases. Storage just acts like an unwanted anchor, or maybe a tow rope pulling you back. Otherwise, it is a disposal problem.
> So, I suggest making up your mind, disposing of whatever you can't move in your own vehicle, and making the move. Otherwise; you aren't ready.
> This new world of 'internet research' is creating a generation of insecurity. We old folks moved on a whim, or after a quick look, cut the ties to the previous life and got on with it. There was no internet, cell phone, GPS, etc. We never concerned ourselves about 'getting there'; we just followed the map and our noses. We also didn't expect to have US goods, movies, TV, or anything else. Now that some of it is here, we don't consider it an improvement and some of the new arrivals aren't either. They still want to bring their 'good ideas' with them and change things even faster. In a decade we've gone from one stop light to gridlock and the infrastructure just can't keep up with too much change too fast. If I had any energy left, I might be looking for a 'more Mexican' part of Mexico.


 
You are a well travelled individual and you have lived a very independent life. Each move added to your total experience so for you the move to Mexico did not produce any doubts or insecurities.

To apply that type of experience to other individuals who have lived their whole life in a few places in their home country is simplifying things too much. Others WILL have their insecurities and doubts. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t venture forth.

An experienced trapeze artist might try a dangerous stunt without a net. Does that mean he should tell the aspiring trapeze artist that if he needs a net he shouldn’t even try the stunt? Of course not! The safety net is there for a purpose. Some need it and some do not. Those that do not should not disparage those that do.

Many people face their insecurities and doubts and make a tentative move to find that it was the right thing to do. If they stored items in case the move was wrong does not damage them in any way. It is a minor issue.

Others, as TundraGreen mentions, have made the move without any doubts at all. They, as you say, have made up their minds. They are positive. They leap right in. Does that mean the move is successful? No, it does not. One or two years later they have to retrace their steps at a cost greater than necessary because they did not retain their safety net.

Each individual will do things a different way. Which way is right or wrong? I don’t think we can say that. Everyone is different. Do what you feel is best. It still might be wrong.

Our duty is to give them options and ideas to think about. How they use them is up to them.


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## terrybahena

Detailman said:


> Depending on the quality and value of your furniture, etc. have you ever considered putting it in storage for a year or two? Some might be negative towards such an action (viewing it as defeatist) but for some individuals it could be a way of hedging their bets and that is not always a bad thing.
> 
> It's like a best case/worst case scenario. Yes, if later you decide to get rid of it all it is an extra step but so what. It can be done. Yes, it is an extra expense but "some" individuals would view it as insurance. None of us ever "hope" to claim on insurance although we sometimes pay plenty to have it. The same with this scenario. Best case scenario - you are delighted with your decision and on a later trip you rid yourself of your final ties to Baltimore. In the worst case scenario you have the basis to start over again in Baltimore or wherever you like as all your possessions are boxed, etc. and ready for a move to ......
> 
> Again it would depend on your psyche and the value of your possessions. (Not worth keeping low valued items as they are just as easily replaced.)
> 
> Just a thought and not for everyone.


The other thing about storing some stuff for a year or too is that you might decide to move it to Mexico. Maybe after you get into the flow, you'll know what you'd like to have around you. Then of course if you decide otherwise, then you can get rid of it in various ways, as you said. Kids, sell, consign, etc. I have just been going thru exactly what you're talking about, and with some things it was/is hard. I guess I'm lucky cause my renters are letting me have some of the attic space in the garage- so my grandmother's dishes, which are for my older daughter who isn't ready for them, will sit up there. I'm making a similar decision around the rocking chair I rocked both my babies to sleep in every nite; if it fits in the truck it comes with us, otherwise up to the attic for now...Don't fret about it FHboy, the right answers will come to you over time if you don't struggle. (too much anyway)


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## Isla Verde

Detailman said:


> That's why "their paradise" is italicized. Everyone’s idea is somewhat different and I do not deny anyone their dreams. That is what keeps people going. Sometimes reality really sucks!!
> 
> If someone wants to go through life always feeling the glass is half full I commend them over those who go through life thinking the glass is half empty. I am sure that you will agree that those people (half empty) are a real drag and not fun to be around. I like the upbeat individuals.



Yes, reality sometimes sucks, but it's what we make of it that matters. My comment about the use of the word "paradise" being problematic is that someone moving to Mexico because they think it will be "paradise" is just asking to be disappointed in the end. 

Now, don't get me wrong. Even on my crankiest days, when there's not enough water to brush my teeth and the garbage men haven't been seen in several days and something I ate didn't agree with me and I'm sure all my students hate me, I just stick my head out the window into the sunshine and listen to the birds on the roof singing their hearts out (and I live in the heart of Mexico City), and I'm at peace with the world.


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## pappabee

*look at the glass*

To begin with when I look at the glass I don't see it half full or half empty I look at it and HOT D-M, THERE'S STILL SOME LEFT.

As far as storing stateside things goes, my wife and I didn't do that. We just picked what we thought we'd need and sold the rest. Daily we thing of something that we sold that we'd like to have here. But for the past two years we haven't been so upset that we'd go out and replace it.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with putting stuff in storage just to see what you think of living in Mexico. There's another thought also. You might find that your initial resident spot is not to your liking and you find another city that you'd rather live in. It gives you the chance to maximize your options.


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## Isla Verde

pappabee said:


> To begin with when I look at the glass I don't see it half full or half empty I look at it and HOT D-M, THERE'S STILL SOME LEFT.


I like your point-of-view, pappabee, especially as the years seem to tick by faster and faster!


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## makaloco

I know a couple who put their belongings in storage when they moved abroad to work in the early '80s. In 2010, they retired and moved back to the US but to a different location. They had their stored items shipped to their new place and are now happily enjoying them again nearly 30 years later!


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## Detailman

terrybahena said:


> The other thing about storing some stuff for a year or too is that you might decide to move it to Mexico. Maybe after you get into the flow, you'll know what you'd like to have around you. Then of course if you decide otherwise, then you can get rid of it in various ways, as you said. Kids, sell, consign, etc. I have just been going thru exactly what you're talking about, and with some things it was/is hard. I guess I'm lucky cause my renters are letting me have some of the attic space in the garage- so my grandmother's dishes, which are for my older daughter who isn't ready for them, will sit up there. I'm making a similar decision around the rocking chair I rocked both my babies to sleep in every nite; if it fits in the truck it comes with us, otherwise up to the attic for now...Don't fret about it FHboy, the right answers will come to you over time if you don't struggle. (too much anyway)


Exactly! I have some pieces that would be extremely hard to replace. (For example, solid onyx tables of gem quality that are not imported to North America any more.) Do I move them to Mexico only to find that I want to move to another area of Mexico or in fact return NOB?

If I put them in storage I can either: 1) Move them to Mexico once I have determined that is where I want to stay; 2) sell them or gift them if I decide on Mexico; or 3) have the enjoyment of them on a return NOB as they cannot be replaced.

Again it is a personal decision and who can say that my decision is wrong? Might be for them but not wrong for me. And so it goes for everyone.


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## jasavak

makaloco said:


> I know a couple who put their belongings in storage when they moved abroad to work in the early '80s. In 2010, they retired and moved back to the US but to a different location. They had their stored items shipped to their new place and are now happily enjoying them again nearly 30 years later!





Wow . I had the opposite experience . 7 years ago ,we moved from California to Texas and took some of our furnishings with us . We quickly realized we brought a bunch of worthless junk across the country . 

Nothing fit in our new home . The items looked odd and out of place and we ended up getting rid of nearly everything in the following months . 


If I were to do it again , I would bring only my clothes and toothbrush .


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## Detailman

jasavak said:


> Wow . I had the opposite experience . 7 years ago ,we moved from California to Texas and took some of our furnishings with us . We quickly realized we brought a bunch of worthless junk across the country .
> 
> Nothing fit in our new home . The items looked odd and out of place and we ended up getting rid of nearly everything in the following months .
> 
> 
> If I were to do it again , I would bring only my clothes and toothbrush .


It is a fact that some items are "timeless" and it wouldn't matter if 30 to 40 years passed by. Other items can be antiques that can fit in a modern home although the pieces are 100 to 200 years old.

We enjoy watching the Antiques Road Show. 150 - 250 year old pieces that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not quite worthless junk even if it was in storage for 30+ years.

Not a good idea to make blanket statements about anything. Husbands and wives come to blows over those types of statement: "You always ....; you never ....."  

Same applies here.


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## jasavak

Detailman said:


> It is a fact that some items are "timeless" and it wouldn't matter if 30 to 40 years passed by. Other items can be antiques that can fit in a modern home although the pieces are 100 to 200 years old.
> 
> We enjoy watching the Antiques Road Show. 150 - 250 year old pieces that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not quite worthless junk even if it was in storage for 30+ years.
> 
> Not a good idea to make blanket statements about anything. Husbands and wives come to blows over those types of statement: "You always ....; you never ....."
> 
> Same applies here.



Luckily , we don't have that problem . My wife and I both agreed it was a waste of time to drag our furniture across the country . 

Some of the pieces were antiques, a marble table , and some hard woods from North Carolina , but it ended up being a waste of time taking it from our small ranch style house to our larger Tuscany style . I would prefer to buy some local furniture in Mexico and give someone else the opportunity to use our old stuff .


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## FHBOY

Detailman said:


> Depending on the quality and value of your furniture, etc. have you ever considered putting it in storage for a year or two? Just a thought and not for everyone.


That is a mid ground I did not think of. This year will be an interesting onr. I have always thought of myself (and MsFHBOY) as Cortes...we move and "burn our ships that way [we] are well motivated" (thanks to Sean Connery in Hunt For Red October). Leaving something behind in storage can be a mental bridge, as you say...and like other things about this life change, you never really know until you try.

I am resisting not burning my ships, and for now it looks as that is the way to go, but there is a long time until January - and what is today, may not be tomorrow - and at this point, it is really moot.


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## FHBOY

Detailman said:


> Very, very wise advice that very few Group 3 expats disagree with. The vast "majority" should not buy for a year or two. It can take that long before one knows for sure. It may be that Mexico is the answer but the current location is not right for you.
> 
> Some may not need the lifeline but for those that are unsure or simply want the "option" it can be a real lifesaver if they find out that Mexico is not "their paradise".


We have chosen to rent when we return to live - there are other factors, such as finances and investments, but mainly home ownership: been there, done that - don't need to do it again. Shed, Shed, Shed and simplify.


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## FHBOY

RVGRINGO said:


> If you can't make up your mind, or if you even have doubts; don't move yet. If I had any energy left, I might be looking for a 'more Mexican' part of Mexico.


There is a joke I will post when I get back home that is relevant to this post. The pre-internet generation were much more willing to go out there, make mistakes and regroup. I could go into the idea that 30, even 40 years ago there was economic room for this, there was always a way to go back. In these economic times, for many the resources to go back have been wiped out or curtailed and so we are cautious to try and make certain that the decisions we do make will have very little downside, some of us just can't afford it.

When we were little we had erasers on pencils, White-out and we looked at our errors and backed up over them and corrected them. Today we prefer not to look back at errors, or when we do look back, we want to see that everything is "perfect". Well, life is not "perfect" it is filled with errors we can not erase, but by leaving them there, we learn not to re-do them...by making them go away, we forget them...and can redo them.

I can rant on this and analogies of modern teachnlogy as a sociological metaphor, but the sun is out and we should go outside and play.


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## Detailman

FHBOY said:


> The pre-internet generation were much more willing to go out there, make mistakes and regroup. I could go into the idea that 30, even 40 years ago there was economic room for this, there was always a way to go back. In these economic times, for many the resources to go back have been wiped out or curtailed and so we are cautious to try and make certain that the decisions we do make will have very little downside, some of us just can't afford it.


Well said and very true in today's economy.

That is one reason "some" are considering a move to another country. Under today's harsh realities they are faced with a life in their home countries that does not reflect the situation that existed decades ago or even five years ago.

The entire world scene is changing and may never go back to where it was.


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## kcowan

FHBOY said:


> Shed, Shed, Shed and simplify.


We did this after we retired. We did home swaps for a month at a time, 4x to Toronto and 3x to San Diego. The swappers were all burdened by their stuff and we were not. They all wished they could be "like us" but were burdened with full basements and garages of stuff.

Most rentals and many resale places come furnished if you want. This gives you the chance to move in and then slowly change out the stuff that does not fit.

We have a number of friends here and only one chose to store all their stuff NOTB. Now they are faced with somehow getting the stuff out of the container so they can unload it. The others all went cold turkey selling everything except some smaller momentos.

Good luck and don't make any hasty decisions.


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## RVGRINGO

Detailman has pegged me quite accurately. I've always had a difficult time understanding indecision, lack of confidence or forgiveness of errors; perhaps because so much of my life in other places, in the air, at sea, in the wilderness, etc.; did not permit errors for the simple reason that they were fatal.
Now that I'm old and fragile, that worries me a lot less. Nevertheless, I admit to being adverse to those who need too many 'crutches', but the comments about a changed economy and world situation do make a difference today. My world was a lot less crowded and 'self reliance' was more of a requirement. Oh well...............we didn't have whiteout, but we did still have wooden pens with steel tips and inkwells on our school desks. Things could get messy, but we learned how to avoid making messy errors at an early age.


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## makaloco

Or maybe we just didn't mind life being a bit messy. I suspect this has as much to do with age as anything else. In my 20s and 30s, it was no big deal to drop everything and move to a new state or even halfway around the world. It never occurred to me to worry about errors or anything being fatal. If I thought about it at all, I guess I figured I could always go back and get another job, apartment, car, or whatever. Now at 60-something the need for security is stronger. For example, I'd feel sort of naked without health insurance.

What I do think has changed with technology is that we feel compelled to research everything to death before doing it. We never used to have that option, so we made decisions and lived with the risk … presuming we even saw a risk. The prevailing attitude seemed to be that regardless of the outcome, we'd chalk up a few adventures and be better for it. Now I guess it seems more irresponsible to jump into something when we can inform ourselves thoroughly beforehand.


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## RVGRINGO

You say it so well, for one who is still much younger than I, but you do understand the point.
Then, there is the fun factor. With so much research and planning, are there any surprises left? Where is the thrill of discovery or even of occasional fright or panic to be dealt with. Lacking that, is there any satisfaction, sense of achievement; or much of any sensation at all?


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## mickisue1

makaloco said:


> Or maybe we just didn't mind life being a bit messy. I suspect this has as much to do with age as anything else. In my 20s and 30s, it was no big deal to drop everything and move to a new state or even halfway around the world. It never occurred to me to worry about errors or anything being fatal. If I thought about it at all, I guess I figured I could always go back and get another job, apartment, car, or whatever. Now at 60-something the need for security is stronger. For example, I'd feel sort of naked without health insurance.
> 
> What I do think has changed with technology is that we feel compelled to research everything to death before doing it. We never used to have that option, so we made decisions and lived with the risk … presuming we even saw a risk. The prevailing attitude seemed to be that regardless of the outcome, we'd chalk up a few adventures and be better for it. Now I guess it seems more irresponsible to jump into something when we can inform ourselves thoroughly beforehand.


Three of my four offspring have that tendency.

One up and moved to DC, because he "might" have a job at a non-profit there.

He didn't, but is still there. Owns his own company, loves his life.

The oldest moved back and forth from here to Italy twice, before deciding it was permanent in 2004. Now, we just have to get her to purge her stuff that's kept here.

And the oldest son took a 3 month tour of the southwest on his motorcycle, as much to rid himself of his fear of new things, as much as anything else. He's currently got the record among the sibs for having lived in the most places. As he plans a career in the diplomatic corps, I'm fairly certain he'll keep that distinction.

I'm a bit more cautious, as is the only one who still lives in MN. But, paradoxically, as I get older, I'm more drawn to the idea of living elsewhere, getting rid of stuff and enjoying life for the experiences it offers, not the objects I can accumulate.

Stuff still has a draw for me. But it's weakening.


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## RVGRINGO

This thread has been very much about 'stuff', but is now tending toward the 'people part'. Good!


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