# P60 End of Year Statement



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If you get a state pension from the UK, do they send you a P60? I've had one for my occupational pension but not for my state pension (which I only started getting last September).


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

No, it's only from employers or investments.
I think, 99.9% sure.


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## Sue jones (May 19, 2015)

We Are thinking on long term leasing for about 5years in Spain. Do we need to pay any sort of taxes?


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> If you get a state pension from the UK, do they send you a P60? I've had one for my occupational pension but not for my state pension (which I only started getting last September).



The UK do not stop tax on the OAP, so P60 is not applicable.

If you have an income in excess of the tax free allowance (£10,000 ?? ) then you get taxed on the other income, although of course the OAP is counted in the total. Thus the occupational pension gets taxed (more) as the OAP is added to it.

If one is resident in Spain then the OAP must be declared in the income tax return in Spain


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

larryzx said:


> The UK do not stop tax on the OAP, so P60 is not applicable.
> 
> If you have an income in excess of the tax free allowance (£10,000 ?? ) then you get taxed on the other income, although of course the OAP is counted in the total. Thus the occupational pension gets taxed (more) as the OAP is added to it.
> 
> If one is resident in Spain then the OAP must be declared in the income tax return in Spain


Thanks - I assumed they wouldn't deduct anything but just wanted to make sure before I go to the gestor to do my IRPF. When the two are added together I'll be below the UK threshold but over the Spanish one. It's quite a luxury after seven years of penury to have enough coming in that I have to pay tax on it.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sue jones said:


> We Are thinking on long term leasing for about 5years in Spain. Do we need to pay any sort of taxes?


Yes, basically if you live in Spain for more than 6 months of any calendar year, you become tax-resident here, you have to declare all your income from whatever source, and pay income tax etc to the Spanish government.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

The DWP send you a yearly letter which shows the increase.
Use that when submitting your tax return or just total the amount paid into your bank, and give the accountant the figure.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

extranjero said:


> The DWP send you a yearly letter which shows the increase.
> Use that when submitting your tax return or just total the amount paid into your bank, and give the accountant the figure.


Using the info in the letter does not really do the job as it is the UK tax year, One needs to add uo the payments actually made, between 1st Jan and 31st Dec. 

In my case it is 13 x the 4 weekly payments. Plus the £10 Christmas bonus, and of course any premium bond winnings.


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

larryzx said:


> The UK do not stop tax on the OAP, so P60 is not applicable.
> 
> If you have an income in excess of the tax free allowance (£10,000 ?? ) then you get taxed on the other income, although of course the OAP is counted in the total. Thus the occupational pension gets taxed (more) as the OAP is added to it.
> 
> If one is resident in Spain then the OAP must be declared in the income tax return in Spain


Is it not possible to have the OAP classified as NT by HMRC? I recognise that it must be declared in Spain.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> Is it not possible to have the OAP classified as NT by HMRC? I recognise that it must be declared in Spain.


As I said it is tax free. But of course it is added to any other income, so tax may be payable on that other income at a higher level as a result of the 'tax free' OAP.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

larryzx said:


> Using the info in the letter does not really do the job as it is the UK tax year, One needs to add uo the payments actually made, between 1st Jan and 31st Dec.
> 
> In my case it is 13 x the 4 weekly payments. Plus the £10 Christmas bonus, and of course any premium bond winnings.


You only have to add jan to april, then it's the new rate from then onwards


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

larryzx said:


> As I said it is tax free. But of course it is added to any other income, so tax may be payable on that other income at a higher level as a result of the 'tax free' OAP.


Sorry - I think I may be being pedantic (again!). Is not the OAP taxable income (not tax free) but for if ones total UK income is below the UK tax free allowances you will not pay tax on it? I have rental income from the UK which must be declared in the UK and Spain. I pay no UK tax on this currently as it is below the UK tax free allowance. Next year I will get my OAP and if it is added to my UK rental income I will end up paying UK tax on some of my total income declared in the UK. I was anticipating being able to arrange for the OAP to be paid NT in Spain where I am tax resident and only pay tax on it in Spain.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

If you are tax resident in Spain then your UK state pension,old age pension, is paid without tax being deducted. It does not form part of your UK income for UK tax purposes as it is taxable only in Spain.
UK rental Income, UK bank interest and dividends are taxable in UK and Spain with the tax paid in UK offset against any tax due in Spain.
UK Government pensions are taxable only in UK and are not declared on your Spanish tax return at the moment. However they must be included in your Spanish tax return next year as other exempt income. Any tax paid in UK on these pensions will be offset against any Spanish tax liability arising.


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

stevesainty said:


> If you are tax resident in Spain then your UK state pension,old age pension, is paid without tax being deducted. It does not form part of your UK income for UK tax purposes as it is taxable only in Spain.
> UK rental Income, UK bank interest and dividends are taxable in UK and Spain with the tax paid in UK offset against any tax due in Spain.
> UK Government pensions are taxable only in UK and are not declared on your Spanish tax return at the moment. However they must be included in your Spanish tax return next year as other exempt income. Any tax paid in UK on these pensions will be offset against any Spanish tax liability arising.


Agreed. I think therefore that the point I need clarification on is whether the UK OAP will be paid without tax being deducted automatically. I have an occupational pension from the UK for which I had to complete an FD 9 otherwise it would have been taxed in the UK. Each year I complete a UK tax return but only include the rental income as the occupational pension is NT.


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## pensionistadave (May 20, 2015)

I have just started on here and would like to ask some questions but have not a clue about how you post a thread on here if you could help me with this


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

pensionistadave said:


> I have just started on here and would like to ask some questions but have not a clue about how you post a thread on here if you could help me with this


Go to the main page and click "Post a New Thread".
Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

stevesainty said:


> If you are tax resident in Spain then your UK state pension,old age pension, is paid without tax being deducted. It does not form part of your UK income for UK tax purposes as it is taxable only in Spain.
> UK rental Income, UK bank interest and dividends are taxable in UK and Spain with the tax paid in UK offset against any tax due in Spain.
> UK Government pensions are taxable only in UK and are not declared on your Spanish tax return at the moment. However they must be included in your Spanish tax return next year as other exempt income. Any tax paid in UK on these pensions will be offset against any Spanish tax liability arising.


I seem to recall that one has to pay tax on UK Bank Interest in Spain and then claim back any tax already paid in UK. That is, one should not offset it any more.

Is this correct - does anyone know for sure?


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> I seem to recall that IF one has to pay tax on UK Bank Interest in Spain and then claim back any tax already paid in UK. That is, one should not offset it any more.
> 
> Is this correct - does anyone know for sure?


Yes absolutely. 

If the tax is stopped automatically, as with NS & I Bonds, one now claims back the whole amount from HMRC (I believe it is a form 40). Until last year one could only claim back 8% of the 20% stopped and then, not now, one could off-set the 12% against any tax liability in Spain.

There is no option where to pay, the rules in the Double Taxation Agreements are clear. 

Only Crown Pensions (police, military, civil service etc) are taxable only in UK. Rental income is taxable in both countries, although the amount paid in one can be off-set in the other.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I seem to recall that one has to pay tax on UK Bank Interest in Spain and then claim back any tax already paid in UK. That is, one should not offset it any more.
> 
> Is this correct - does anyone know for sure?


Yes - use form R43 to reclaim it if you are resident outside the UK. You have to claim within four years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...t-by-an-individual-not-resident-in-the-uk-r43


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I think you both MAY have missed my point.

It used to be the case that one could EITHER offset tax paid on savings interest in UK against tax in Spain OR claim it all back from HMRC and pay tax on it here.

My question was/is, can one still offset tax paid in UK on savings interest or not?


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## Aranjuez (May 21, 2015)

Larryzx's answer looks to me to answer your point fairly clearly. Re rental income if HMRC are satisfied that you are no longer tax resident in the UK it can be paid gross to you in Spain, via the Overseas Landlord Scheme. We have an agent who was authorised to make gross payment to us once we had satisfied HMRC that we had left the UK permanently. As regards the state pension query although it is taxable it is never taxed directly at source. An NT code could only be applicable if the payer had a PAYE scheme, under which the payments were potentially subject to PAYE. So you won't be taxed on your state pension, you won't get a P60 in respect of it, and your source (and supporting if necessary) documents to calculate/verify the quantum are as already stated bank statements and/or annual pension statements.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

nikkisizer said:


> Hello Dave and Anne Galicia,
> 
> All UK pension income whether private and/or state should be entered on your UK tax return along with your rental income.
> 
> If you have not been doing this your tax return submissions will be incorrect along with the associated tax calculation.


That might be so I have never let property in UK, but for sure: If one is tax resident in Spain, under the Double Taxation Agreements between Spain and UK, only Crown Pensions are taxable in UK (and not in Spain). When making a UK tax return in respect of a Crown Pension one is not required to show any other income not taxable in UK. Income from Crown Pensions is until next year (accordng to Hacienda) ignored in Spain.

Rental income is taxable in both and must be declared in UK and Spain .

All other income worldwide must be declared in Spain.


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

nikkisizer said:


> Hello Dave and Anne Galicia,
> 
> All UK pension income whether private and/or state should be entered on your UK tax return along with your rental income.
> 
> If you have not been doing this your tax return submissions will be incorrect along with the associated tax calculation.


Not in my case for my occupational pension (not Gov) as I applied to HMRC using the FD9 to have it paid with no tax deducted - NT. I declare it in Spain where I am tax resident. I get a P60 each year which shows the gross pension and no tax deducted.


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

nikkisizer said:


> Regardless of the tax code being issued (in your case NT) you still need to declare all UK pension income and rental income on your UK tax return.
> 
> As you have rental income in addition to your pension income it would be highly likely that you would have exceeded the UK personal allowance for that tax year which would then result in a tax liability.
> 
> ...


Interesting that HMRC specifically told me not to include it! Your argument would suggest that I should pay tax on my occupational pension in the UK and Spain and then reclaim the tax paid in the UK under the DTA as I am tax resident in Spain!! With respect you are wrong. Perhaps we can agree to disagree.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

nikkisizer said:


> If HMRC told you that then unfortunately you have been wrongly advised.
> 
> Please refer to SA150 issued by HMRC which clearly states that UK pension income should be declared on your UK tax return.


Nik, I think you have missed that the info re the SA150, appears to apply to UK residents. As Dave and Anne said, It for sure does not relate to crown pensions living in Spain.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Nik, 
May I sugest you call HMRC and tell them that the advice which they have in print and that which give over the telephone is wrong and that it has been for over 27 years. 

You will be surprise by what they say.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

nikkisizer said:


> SA150 applies to anyone who is required to file a UK tax return.
> 
> If you are not UK resident then the Residence schedule should also be filed with the UK tax return.
> 
> The Residence schedule is not available on HMRC's online filing system as HMRC's online filing system is designed for UK residents only not UK non-residents who are required to file a UK tax return so if the UK tax return has been filed using HMRC's online filing system then that would also be incorrect.


I do not understand what you are saying. Your post is confusing!
If you live in Spain, you pay income tax etc in Spain, apart from Gov pensions.
You do not make tax returns in UK as well


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

extranjero said:


> I do not understand what you are saying. Your post is confusing!
> If you live in Spain, you pay income tax etc in Spain, apart from Gov pensions.
> You do not make tax returns in UK as well


Just to make it clear. Also tax in UK, and declared in Spain, on rental property in UK.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

nikkisizer said:


> Always follow the print version rather than over the telephone as then you have proof if your tax return is questioned in the future that you completed it as per HMRC's own guidance notes.


Last try………………. “Always follow the print version.”

That is what we have been saying but you seem to ignore, or not be conversant with, the Double Taxation Agreements between Spain and UK. Those between others countries (Dubai) and UK may be different.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

NiK; As a "Friendly Accountant offering personal taxation services to Expats with UK tax obligation" I think you are about to loose clients, 

Do yourself a favour and call HMRC now.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

nikkisizer said:


> WE ARE only trying to help, it is your choice of course if you choose to ignore this advice.


 Good luck


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## Aranjuez (May 21, 2015)

Larry's post @ no 22 is spot on. HMRC simply does not have the authority to require people resident outside its jurisdiction to submit returns of income etc. The only exceptions are where there is specific legislation/agreements which countermand this. At the risk of being repetitive this applies to UK Crown pensions which are and remain taxable in the UK. Also to rental income from UK property although as previously pointed out if HMRC can be satisfied that the recipient is resident outside the UK this can be paid gross and returned in the foreign jurisdiction.


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