# do yoh have to do a vaf4a AND an appendix 2?



## lap9 (Jan 20, 2015)

Hi guys.

Think i may have dropped a bombshell.

We have only prepaired an appendix 2 form for my fiancees visa,

Do i need to get her to fill in the VAF4A also?

Or does the online application remove the need for it?? 

As it appears all the information in both is the same


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## chunkvoy (Aug 30, 2015)

Yes. Apply online, then fill out the same information in a printed VAF4A.


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## lap9 (Jan 20, 2015)

Oh damn...

Ive not got this done and shes back in Thailand...

Hoping she's able to write it all out!...

I cant remember it saying do a va4fa as well as an online printed application. 

Thisis going to be a challenge


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

lap9 said:


> Oh damn... Ive not got this done and shes back in Thailand... Hoping she's able to write it all out!... I cant remember it saying do a va4fa as well as an online printed application. Thisis going to be a challenge


If she has filled out the online application form and printed it out along with Appendix 2, she does not need to complete a VAF4A printed form.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Printed, paper-form VAF4A is only for use in North Korea. Everyone else completes the online version of VAF4A, submits, prints out a copy to be handed in with supporting documents (and another copy to keep as reference) and completes paper version of Appendix 2 to submit (again keeping a copy for own record). 
So all she needs to do is to print out the online application, sign and attach it to completed Appendix 2, and submit with other supporting documents at her biometric appointment.


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## lap9 (Jan 20, 2015)

Ah thata a relief. 

Thank you so much joppa.


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## chunkvoy (Aug 30, 2015)

Sorry for the wrong info - my bad. I was getting in a muddle with the appendix 2 and had it all wrong. Glad this has clarified it for me too. (I'll keep quiet unless I'm certain next time!) Good luck with the application.


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## TNLady (Sep 8, 2014)

Dear Joppa, I think you're great, but I take issue where you recently posted that the instructions/ info is clearly laid out. 

It's not. I too, was baffled about the VAF4A, since it clearly says on the Appendix 2 that it's required and MUST be attached! I simply cannot trust their instructions. North Korea isn't mentioned anywhere on that VAF4A form. 

The first time I applied, I didn't know I had to do Appendix 2. Believe me, with that much money on the line, I would've filled it out if I had known! Fortunately, I received an email requesting me to do it, so I quickly hurried to print it, fill it out, scan it in, and email... only to discover later that I was refused the visa on other grounds. They should've seen my other missing documents first and refused me quickly (explaining that the missing Appendix 2 wasn't why I was refused). 

A few months later when I re-applied, I remembered to do Appendix 2. I thought VAF4A was a new requirement, as the NHS payment had also been added. They need to revise the front pages of those forms to make it clear. 

Another unclear items was in the list of proof of accommodation. Everything was for people living in the UK already, and I was going to be traveling over there WITH my British husband at the same time. (yes, that's another unclear item: the description of the correct visa is for Spouses "Joining" their UK spouse, which I took literally and assumed that couldn't apply to us. It was very hard to find out which form to use.) Finally when I did, and I saw the list of evidence one "MAY wish to include" - - indicating it's optional - - well, we had nothing to include. Why? Because in America, listing Mortgage, taxes, and utility bills along with property inspection indicates that you've had the property inspected prior to purchase. Nobody I've ever met has ever heard of the UK Property Inspection Form to Prevent Overcrowding! The instructions could easily explain what that is in the UK, paying $200+ for a surveyor to measure your family's abode! But it doesn't! If it had, I might've been approved! 

Further, I did my best to prove self-employment income for the past 2 years, but the instructions should've clearly said not to apply unless you have 2 actual, final tax returns. Essentially, this means no Americans (or very, very few) are applying in Jan. or Feb. of each year. But that's exactly when I applied. Had the instructions been more clear, I would've waited. The instructions only said one "MAY WISH" to include a tax return; never did I see TWO mentioned.

....Which leads me to the bank statements. I have years of bank statements and would gladly have sent them if the instructions said to. But I followed the instructions that said to send in "At least 6 months' worth" so I doubled that and sent in a year's worth. I was absolutely stunned to see they wanted quadruple that: TWO years - but hadn't actually required that in their directions. You may think it's obvious, applying in Category G, but I'm telling you, it was nowhere in the instructions that I could see, and I worked very hard on it. (no lawyer or anyone else advising). 

In addition, I followed the directions on my Biometrics receipt, saying to use "FedEx or UPS" to send it and include a return label. FedEx online account and return label took ages. Then once my pkg. got to Sheffield, they informed me that I had to buy a UPS label; they no longer return docs via FedEx. But how hard would that be to use my label on the FedEx Tyvek Pak I included? 

My refusal letter had typos and/or grammatical errors, and the attached info for appealing the decision wasn't clear. i learned much on this forum. 

Then when I re-applied, I frantically wanted to pay Priority, but their instructions say VERY clearly NOT to if you've had a prior refusal, so I didn't. Well, a week ago, I saw someone's 2nd application went through very quickly with Priority. I cried for 2-3 days, thinking I could be in England right now with my husband and children. * * * * * So there's clear proof that what they say NOT to do, I should've done, and what they say I MUST DO (VAF4A, at least 6 months bank statements and A tax return, and FedEx), I shouldn't do. 

I also wrote that I wanted to travel on Aug. 12th to have plenty of time before a relative's wedding on Aug. 29th. My dates were ignored. That's yet another reason not to trust what the form says. 

When I applied, 97% of apps had decisions made in 30 days. Now the numbers have gone way down to 74% done in 30 days. i knew the numbers could change, but didn't think by that much. Running a for-profit business like that would quickly fail. I felt deceived by the drop in performance. 

Not to mention their willful withholding of the most important piece of information: your decision. They know it and they go to the trouble of telling you that they know it, and then you'll know it in 2-3 more days! 

Emotions run very high with this visa process. Many life decisions hang in the balance. And then there's the recent case of an American physician paying Priority and being flat-out lied to 20x that their app is being worked on, then involving elected officials, only to finally discover that their Appendix 2 got lost! He had to re-apply, pay again and fill it all out again (hoping they'll refund him from the first time.) 

Thanks for all your encouragement and hard work being the 'General' in a sense, leading us. I speak from the trenches, where it's not easy to see or understand.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, individual cases differ and experiences too. All I am saying is that UKVI have covered their backs by stating that applicants should submit documents that best support their application, and it's up to the individual to work out what that means for their individual circumstance. It doesn't help those who have never done this sort of things before, and have little experience with Home Office and UKVI but I don't think the government can be more specific than that. Not everyone requires property inspection report, and even with shared accommodation, they may at times accept other kinds of evidence to show there's no overcrowding. You also need to follow all the links and read supplementary information as well. For accommodation, for example, there are FM 1.7a and MAA (maintenance and accommodation) which further give clarifications.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As for Cat G, well, it's about the average of two-year pre-tax profit for the self-employed, so a simple logic tells you it requires 2-year worth of bank statement in evidence.


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## TNLady (Sep 8, 2014)

Yes, it's logical once you wrap your head around the fact that you cannot trust their directions. If I was running the show, and I really wanted people to be sure to send in enough statements, I'd say to send in "anywhere from 6 months of statements, up to 2 years' worth, depending on which category you're applying." Or, a simple chart: Category A: 6 months. Category F: 1 year. Category G: 2 years. 

....because when I saw to send "at least 6 months" then I thought I'd go way above and beyond what they're asking for, and send in DOUBLE that to be sure to qualify. And it didn't say they should be from January to December either, for Cat. G. (to match the tax returns)! 

And how hard could it be to mention what property inspection is in the UK? They ramble on elsewhere in great long sentences, going on 10 lines or more of multiple clauses chock full of legalese ... and yet they couldn't say one more word after "property inspection" to distinguish it from the regular kind of property inspection one pays for before buying a home? 

I didn't have overcrowding on my mind at all when I saw that... all I thought of was that some couples are separated so some will have a residence there, and since we didn't, I didn't have anything to provide. And, I truly didn't know there was supplementary info to read... everything should be on the form or at least on the guidance at the end of the form. I have the American form we used for my British husband to come to the US on a Fiance Visa and it is COMPLETELY understandable and simple! There's no hidden FM or MAA to dig up. 

Again, about the appeal: if I didn't discover this forum, I probably would've wasted time appealing, because their instructions sound like it's the next course of action one should definitely take. 

Well, thanks for reading about my experience.


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## powdra (Sep 30, 2015)

Hi all! I would like to ask your opinion. Several days ago I got my spouse visa refusal on grounds of mainly missing documents. The problem is that Appendix 2 was missing too. I guess it wouldn't be a great deal to add all necessary papers and to appeal against the ECO decision. But I'm not sure about the Appendix 2, its kind of very important. Anyway, I would be grateful to know your opinion, whether I should go for appeal or reapply with new application. Thank you.


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