# Deposit issue Madrid



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Hi guys,

Nice forum, looks great. Hope I'm posting in the right place.

I'm sure you've come across this problem before, but I'm wondering what steps to take about the return of a deposit from a short-term rental. I'm aware that a month's wait is required before anything legal becomes viable, and even then, the fees aren't worthwhile. Is there any other pressure I can apply in this instance, or do I need to physically return? What are the chances of getting it if I turn up in his office?

Thanks for your help!

Patrick


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Nobody has any advice about this?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Nobody has any advice about this?


:welcome:


unfortunately it isn't unusual for landlords to find a way out of returning deposits....


you say 'short term contract' - what do you mean by that exactly?


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

I mean it was a two-month contract. I have an email stating the value of the deposit, and no issues have been raised about damage. He's basically just delaying, and always has a new excuse about his bank. Even though he has no legal basis, I can't physically force him to return the money, so I'm not sure how to proceed.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> I mean it was a two-month contract. I have an email stating the value of the deposit, and no issues have been raised about damage. He's basically just delaying, and always has a new excuse about his bank. Even though he has no legal basis, I can't physically force him to return the money, so I'm not sure how to proceed.


OK

does it say in the contract that you can't do anything 'legally' for a month? Or that he has a month to return the deposit?


this is often the case with long term contracts, to give time for final utility bills to be issued & paid, but I've not heard this for what was essentially a holiday contract

Would I be right in thinking that you're no longer in Spain?


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Unless the deposit was legally lodged with the officials (as it should have been), then there is no reason for him not to hand it back straight away.

I wonder, was it always the case that you would only rent for 2 months or did you leave 'unexpectedly'?

Also, how much deposit did you give?

You also mention that 'the fees aren't worthwhile' - what do you mean by this?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Unless the deposit was legally lodged with the officials (as it should have been), then there is no reason for him not to hand it back straight away.
> 
> I wonder, was it always the case that you would only rent for 2 months or did you leave 'unexpectedly'?
> 
> ...


probably means that any legal action would cost more than the deposit....

you have a point about the contract - since the OP said it was a short term contract I was working on the assumption that it was a fixed-term, essentially holiday let


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

I haven't looked back at the contract for the status of the deposit, actually, but it's just what he told me.

It's very unlikely he handed it back to the officials, as he wanted to be paid in cash. The contract was for two months only. The deposit comes to €500.

I emailed a law firm, and they told me that by the time it got to court, the charges would mitigate the benefit. I don't know if it's possible to sue for damages.

I'm no longer in Spain, but I don't know if that would make a difference anyway. I could go back and land in his office, but what more?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> I haven't looked back at the contract for the status of the deposit, actually, but it's just what he told me.
> 
> It's very unlikely he handed it back to the officials, as he wanted to be paid in cash. The contract was for two months only. The deposit comes to €500.
> 
> ...



you could try contacting OMIC & asking their advice - tell them what has happened & that you're no longer in Spain

Ayuntamiento de Madrid - OMIC

there's a complaints book system in Spain - the _hojas de reclamaciones - _& usually the mere mention of this is enough to get action - the copies of the _hojas _go to OMIC

they will hopefully contact the agent on your behalf - it's a free service - but it has teeth 

good luck :fingerscrossed:


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks for that! 

Do you have any idea on the particulars of how it works? For example, does every establishment keep a "complaints book," and do I have to ask the landlord for it? 

Secondly, might you know what section of the link you sent is most relevant, or is there perhaps an email address on the site I could use?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> Do you have any idea on the particulars of how it works? For example, does every establishment keep a "complaints book," and do I have to ask the landlord for it?
> 
> Secondly, might you know what section of the link you sent is most relevant, or is there perhaps an email address on the site I could use?


if it's an agent then legally they have to have a complaints book

if he's a private landlord then he wouldn't 

since you're not in Spain now, it's probably best to e-mail OMIC directly 

use the _de carácter general _link from here Ayuntamiento de Madrid - Sugerencias y reclamaciones


you might get 'untrusted connection' but it's safe to bypass it 

oh - & write in Spanish!


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thank you! I'll keep you updated on what happens. Further suggestions are of course appreciated.


----------



## castaway06 (Jul 25, 2014)

Asking for the complaints book (libro de reclamaciones) normally works wonders having one is a legal requirement for businesses and they really hate you writing in it. I know someone how asked for it at her local branch of BBVA and within 30 minutes had the regional director sorting out her problem


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

castaway06 said:


> Asking for the complaints book (libro de reclamaciones) normally works wonders having one is a legal requirement for businesses and they really hate you writing in it. I know someone how asked for it at her local branch of BBVA and within 30 minutes had the regional director sorting out her problem


Thanks for this. But is it still a viable option from abroad? I can't see him facillitating my request, unless it carries some legal weight.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Thanks for this. But is it still a viable option from abroad? I can't see him facillitating my request, unless it carries some legal weight.


the complaints book carries _massive _legal weight - which is why companies are so scared of it!

if you were standing in his office & asked for it, & he refused to give it to you - you could call the police, they would come - & he'd be in trouble


some areas allow you to complete one online, but I'm not sure if Madrid does, which is why I suggested contacting OMIC directly


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Hmm is the OMIC website often down? I tried to file a complaint via it's contact form, and it tells me that it's down for maintenance. Does this happen a lot, or do they have another email address?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Hmm is the OMIC website often down? I tried to file a complaint via it's contact form, and it tells me that it's down for maintenance. Does this happen a lot, or do they have another email address?


do you get as far as the form?

or does it seem to be down when you try to submit?


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Yeah I got to the form and the captcha etc. but then when I submit it, it gives me a maintenance error.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It is unlikely that you will get your money back. A private landlord won't have a complaints book. As you say, it's not worth suing.
Most landlords here don't repay deposits so most tenants don't pay the last month's rent. Not legal but a guarantee of not being ripped off.
Put it down to experience and forget about it.


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Well it's a property agency, so it's a legal requirement right?

Is it literally a book that you just write in?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Well it's a property agency, so it's a legal requirement right?
> 
> Is it literally a book that you just write in?


yes it is literally a book with several copies, one of which you would take to the OMIC office


you obviously can't do that though


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Hmm is the OMIC website often down? I tried to file a complaint via it's contact form, and it tells me that it's down for maintenance. Does this happen a lot, or do they have another email address?


I just sent a test message & it went through


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Mine went through now too - thanks for the heads up!


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Just a quick quetion - any idea of how long these guys might take to respond?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

patrick8574 said:


> Just a quick quetion - any idea of how long these guys might take to respond?


it's August - so they'll be on skeleton staff - & today is also a national holiday


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks!


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

So I got a response, but it's directing me elsewhere. Any idea what this wants me to do exactly? I can understand it, but it still doesn't seem clear.

Le agradecemos que haya utilizado el Servicio de Sugerencias y Reclamaciones del Ayuntamiento de Madrid. En relación a su escrito sobre la incidencia con la empresa que le alquiló un piso y que no le devuelve la fianza, le informamos que en esta unidad se tramitan las quejas o sugerencias sobre el funcionamiento de los servicios prestados por el Ayuntamiento de Madrid. Para realizar una reclamación o consulta sobre temas de consumo (conflictss surgidos entre un consumidor y comerciantes o empresas) podrá hacerlo entregando una solicitud o escrito en cualquier registro municipal, por correo postal, remitiéndolo a la OMIC central C/ Príncipe de Vergara 140, 28002 Madrid o personalmente en cualquiera de las OMIC situadas en los Distritos, o en la OMIC central, a través del sistema de cita previa (912 188 193 (horario de petición de cita: de lunes a viernes de 9 a 20 horas de manera ininterrumpida.)


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

patrick8574 said:


> So I got a response, but it's directing me elsewhere. Any idea what this wants me to do exactly? I can understand it, but it still doesn't seem clear.
> 
> Le agradecemos que haya utilizado el Servicio de Sugerencias y Reclamaciones del Ayuntamiento de Madrid. En relación a su escrito sobre la incidencia con la empresa que le alquiló un piso y que no le devuelve la fianza, le informamos que en esta unidad se tramitan las quejas o sugerencias sobre el funcionamiento de los servicios prestados por el Ayuntamiento de Madrid. Para realizar una reclamación o consulta sobre temas de consumo (conflictss surgidos entre un consumidor y comerciantes o empresas) podrá hacerlo entregando una solicitud o escrito en cualquier registro municipal, por correo postal, remitiéndolo a la OMIC central C/ Príncipe de Vergara 140, 28002 Madrid o personalmente en cualquiera de las OMIC situadas en los Distritos, o en la OMIC central, a través del sistema de cita previa (912 188 193 (horario de petición de cita: de lunes a viernes de 9 a 20 horas de manera ininterrumpida.)



What they are saying, basically, is that you have complained to the wrong people. 

You need to contact OMIC at the address given or on the number given within the hours specified.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> What they are saying, basically, is that you have complained to the wrong people.
> 
> You need to contact OMIC at the address given or on the number given within the hours specified.


and by snailmail......


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

OMIC Madrid
Ayuntamiento de Madrid - OMIC
Follow the links for reclamciones de consumo. There are links to the form you have to fill in. It then says that this form has to be presented personally to an OMIC office and there is a list of all the offices in Madrid


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

thanks guys. but just to clarify - is this actually doable by snail mail, or does the form have to be presented in person?


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Nobody any idea?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

it says you can post it, as I replied a few posts earlier


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> it says you can post it, as I replied a few posts earlier


I saw that, thanks! I'm just confused because some of the replies seemed contradictory (hence my confusion with the original message).


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Yes, it is confusing, and mainlñy because of my previous post I think.
This comes from something Patrick had posted before


> podrá hacerlo entregando una solicitud o escrito en cualquier registro municipal, por correo postal, remitiéndolo a la OMIC central C/ Príncipe de Vergara 140, 28002 Madrid o personalmente en cualquiera de las OMIC situadas en los Distritos, o en la OMIC central, a través del sistema de cita previa (912 188 193 (horario de petición de cita: de lunes a viernes de 9 a 20 horas de manera ininterrumpida.)


So, this says that if you deal with the OMIC office in Calle Principe de Vergara you can do it by mail.
If you go to any other OMIC office (of which there are many and they are listed in a link in a previous post of mine) you have to go personally
Hope that makes it clear


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Great, thank you!


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Update on this. I got my money back. I had to contact a lawyer I found online, whose services I can recommend to anyone stuck in a similar situation: Arash of movingtomadrid.com. I cannot recommend him highly enough.

I should also announce for posterity that /SNIP/ is a crook. Anyone who comes across this thread via Google should be warned before doing any deals with him, property-related or otherwise. He used every dirty trick in the book to avoid returning my money.

I also wrote a letter to the OMIC a few months ago, and just got a response now. They say that they are able to engage in mediation, but this is only voluntary on the part of the offending party, so it's seems they're a bit toothless due to legal restrictions.

Thanks everyone for your help!


----------



## patrick8574 (Aug 8, 2014)

Inappropriate edit, his naming is in the public interest


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

patrick8574 said:


> Inappropriate edit, his naming is in the public interest


Irrelevant as it is against forum rules - and they override everything!


----------

