# Is the 180-Day Mexican Tourist Visa Dead?



## LoggedIn (Nov 21, 2017)

Looks Like It


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## hyracer (Aug 14, 2011)

LoggedIn said:


> Looks Like It


I watched that video about an hour ago, and the answer is "no" to "not necessarily". As the video points out, immigration laws have not changed, but if you're coming in with a day pack (no luggage) or look like your financially not capable of supporting yourself (younger, backpacker), you may not be given 180 days on your visa papers.


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## dembones (Dec 12, 2014)

What a concept! Maybe we should try that in the States.


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## LoggedIn (Nov 21, 2017)

hyracer said:


> I watched that video about an hour ago, and the answer is "no" to "not necessarily". As the video points out, immigration laws have not changed, but if you're coming in with a day pack (no luggage) or look like your financially not capable of supporting yourself (younger, backpacker), you may not be given 180 days on your visa papers.


I came away with the same impressions but the part that is disturbing is the total control of the waffling immigration policies with no warning and no apparent legislative emphasis.

I forget the term - perpetual tourist? - 6mos, cross a border, 6 mo etc. is/was? my expectation and excitement to "move" to Mx. I readily admit the uncertainty of the situation has sent me and mine into a definite rethink.


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## LoggedIn (Nov 21, 2017)

dembones said:


> What a concept! Maybe we should try that in the States.


We talked about it for 4 year, called the Trump Wall. Worked out well, didn't it?


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

It has always been up to the discretion of the immigration official to give one the maximum 180 days or not, so there is nothing new about that part. 

And other countries do the same- immigration officials at borders have some leeway in their decisions.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

In Chiapas we have lots and lots of back pakers, hippy types and they stay as long as they can make a living and then leave.. They go back and forth to the border and I heard it was getting more difficult to get a 6 month visa, but considering that they are working and do not bring much to the economy , it is a good thong they hae to leave as they are always more coming and it would get really crowded...


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm glad I don't have to depend on the whims of an INM officer. I have always looked like a hippy and used a backpack for luggage when I travel. Now I just look like an old hippy with an old backpack.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I am very happy I do not depend on the whim of an immigration officer as well, that is one of the main reason I became a citizen. Lays re immigrants and tourists change , I have seen several changes in my life in differnt countries.. for that reason I chose to become a citizen, I am too old to worry about coming or going.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

That video is just clik bait. Much ado about nothing.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> That video is just clik bait. Much ado about nothing.


How do you know that?


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

[Cut] The jerk in that video is a self appointed export. He took a few examples without all the circumstances and purposely made it controversial . That is what YOU tubers do. They are making videos to earn bucks. Not to provide helpful info. No one in the Sonora tourist areas has reported problems getting 180 day permits. Nor has anyone been stopped by officials from La Migra. However it may be that in some ****** areas like SMA things may be different. These are people who drive US cars with those fake plates. So breaking the law is nothing new to them.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Some people in Chiapas are reporting problems, it is basically up to the immigration officer to give you what he is in the mood to give you.


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## LoggedIn (Nov 21, 2017)

[Cut] "[all] Youtubers"...making videos to earn bucks. Not to provide helpful info"... is a crock. I'm a YouTuber who gets nothing monetarily from posting copious amounts of vidcasts for the benefit of those who drop by my channel and for my own personal satisfaction. [Cut]


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Yes therre are some that provide decent information. Examples are the carfters and seres who rpovide tons of how to information. Some mechanics and repair perosns have ecellent videos. But all the chiropractors spouting medical info that is beyond their practice and a bunch who know nothing about Mexico post BS. Add in the anti maskers, anti vaxers, anti Doctor,anti everything and you tube is as bad as facebook. The fellow in that video did not provide actual experiences. Just hearsay. He tried to make it an important expose but it is just his unproven opinion. .


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Question:

If I fly into Mexico, then I understand the cost of the FMM is included in the ticket price. Will that cause any problem if I then exit Mexico by land? That is to say, will I have to somehow prove that I already paid the fee for it? I wouldn't want to have to pay for it twice, but I'm not sure how that all works. I haven't flown into Mexico in 15 years, but I'm currently planning a trip in which I'll likely fly into Monterrey or Torreón, then on the return trip cross on foot from Nuevo Laredo to Laredo.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The FMM is a two part form; one for entering and the other for exiting Mexico; Entrada vs Salida. You must keep the exit portion and turn it in upon departure. Simple.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

You will be given back the smaller section of the form when you go through immigration at the airport. This is proof of your tourist status. Don't lose it, hand it back in when you exit. If you lose it, you have to.pay again.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Thanks.

I'm very familiar with the FMM. Over the last dozen years, I've driven to Mexico ten times. This means I'm also used to getting a TIP at the same time as the FMM, and also canceling both at the same time upon northbound return. And still, after ten times of the same process, my memory still gets fuzzy about the order of events at cancelation. So, on the one hand, I was probably just conflating what happens when canceling a TIP and reclaiming the deposit with what happens when canceling the FMM on the other side of the room.

On the other hand, I also remember online discussions several years ago about people being assessed an "exit tax" when trying to cross into Belize or Guatemala, and the consensus at the time seemed to be that it was related to the FMM fee. And, in those discussions, people had brought up the fact that they'd paid for the FMM along with a plane ticket. It was long enough ago that I was reading those discussions, that I don't remember all the details, but I wondered if some similar sort of situation (alliteration not intended) might arise in my case.

But yes, now that I think about it carefully, I don't recall ever having to show anything other than a passport when canceling an FMM. Heck, my friend was even able to cancel his whole family's FMMs while everyone but himself was here in Kansas; the agent just told him to bring their passports along next time he did so. Yeah, I guess I should stop worrying.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Also... It's been 20 years since I've crossed the border on foot, and that was at Juárez. Could someone familiar with Nuevo Laredo let me know if this is where I'll need to cancel my FMM?









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I see the INM sign above the door, but I haven't crossed the border at Nuevo Laredo since the early 1990s—and that was just a family vacation in the fifth grade with no paperwork involved.


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## LoggedIn (Nov 21, 2017)

More On The Death Of The Tourist Visa (Perpetual Tourist)


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

This guy is giving out incorrect information when he calls an FMM the equivalent of a tourist visa.

That is not what an FMM is. It is a federal immigration form used by all foreigners when entering or exiting the country, regardless of whether they are a tourist, or a resident. 
The lower half is retained by tourists and handed back in when leaving.

But "FMM" is not just another term for tourist visa.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Our best friends just made the drive up to Allende (Coahuila) on Tuesday to cancel their FMMs and TIPs, then stayed the night in Allende, and got new ones the next morning. They mentioned to me by text: "They gave us 180 days" and "The FMMs are especially straightforward now that the officials even fill them out for us".

I'll be in Mexico visiting them next week and I could ask then, but does anyone have any info about that second part? Are we no longer filling out our own FMMs?


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## Firstlast (Jan 11, 2021)

dembones said:


> What a concept! Maybe we should try that in the States.





surabi said:


> This guy is giving out incorrect information when he calls an FMM the equivalent of a tourist visa.
> 
> That is not what an FMM is. It is a federal immigration form used by all foreigners when entering or exiting the country, regardless of whether they are a tourist, or a resident.
> The lower half is retained by tourists and handed back in when leaving.
> ...


No matter how you slice or dice it, it is commonly referred to as a tourist visa. When the FMM is filled out and accepted this is issued as a "Visa on arrival" The requirement that the tourist returns it on exiting is the reason it is called a tourist visa. I, on the other hand, in possession of a Residente Permanente visa do the opposite. When I return to MX from traveling abroad, I surrender the bottom half of the FMM when I RETURN to MX. Your argument is specious. It's a argument saying a person in the US have "green card" but, a Permanent resident card.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I agree with Surabi! 

FMM is short for Forma Migratorio Multiple, and it is the form you fill out for multiple reasons, not only tourism. It's not a visa. Also what you get that is commonly termed "visa on arrival" is not technically a visa, it's a permission to stay granted on arrival without a visa. Real, actual, visas granted by Mexico cover an entire page in your passport and have your picture in color. They are not the same as an entry stamp. 

But more than just incorrect terminology, the post linked to by the OP is also mostly scaremongering. 

Based on other reports, the length of stay you get depends on how and where you enter. And probably which agent you queue in front of, and whether they like your looks or not. And in any event, can be extended once you're in country at an INM office for up to the full 180 days from the date of entry if your plans change.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

no, you cannot assume it will be extended for sure to 180 days..


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## Firstlast (Jan 11, 2021)

eastwind said:


> I agree with Surabi!
> 
> FMM is short for Forma Migratorio Multiple, and it is the form you fill out for multiple reasons, not only tourism. It's not a visa. Also what you get that is commonly termed "visa on arrival" is not technically a visa, it's a permission to stay granted on arrival without a visa. Real, actual, visas granted by Mexico cover an entire page in your passport and have your picture in color. They are not the same as an entry stamp.
> 
> ...


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Firstlast said:


> I currently have a MX Residente Permanente visa and no where in my passport do I have a full page visa with my color photo. No where in my passport do i have a MX visa. I only have entry stamps. What you do describe as a full page visa i have from Uzbekistan and Nigeria.


You are confused. Eastwind tried to explain it, but you haven't understood. Your permanent residency in Mexico is not a visa. A tourist card isn't a visa either. 

It's understandably confusing, as many sites use the term "visa" interchangeably with "permit", but that is technically incorrect. 

Mexico only requires and uses actual visas in certain specific circumstances. For instance, those entering Mexico from certain countries may need to apply for a visa welll before their trip, even if only coming as a tourist. Or someone here for work purposes with a foreign company.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

By the way, an FMM is used by Mexican citizens also when they leave the country, is it not? 

There may be ways where you can apply for residency after coming here as a tourist, and therefore wouldn't have a visa in your US passport from Mexico, but they are unusal cases. For example, some procedures and rules were suspended for a while because of covid. Also, if you come here as a tourist and get married to a Mexican citizen while here, I think that may be a case where you don't ever end up getting a visa in your passport, but I'm not certain, I don't know anyone who did that.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

kphoger said:


> Our best friends just made the drive up to Allende (Coahuila) on Tuesday to cancel their FMMs and TIPs, then stayed the night in Allende, and got new ones the next morning. They mentioned to me by text: "They gave us 180 days" and "The FMMs are especially straightforward now that the officials even fill them out for us".
> 
> I'll be in Mexico visiting them next week and I could ask then, but does anyone have any info about that second part? Are we no longer filling out our own FMMs?


FYI...

We flew into Monterrey and filled out our FMMs at the gate in DFW while waiting to board our flight to MTY. So, at least in our case, flying, the officials didn't fill them out for us.

When we arrived into MTY, the officer at the immigration desk asked me how long I would be in Mexico. I answered "six days". He wrote "180" on the FMM. So, in our case, flying, the officer automatically issued the full 180 days even though I specifically said a duration much shorter than that.


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## Firstlast (Jan 11, 2021)

RVGRINGO said:


> The FMM is a two part form; one for entering and the other for exiting Mexico; Entrada vs Salida. You must keep the exit portion and turn it in





kphoger said:


> Question:
> 
> If I fly into Mexico, then I understand the cost of the FMM is included in the ticket price. Will that cause any problem if I then exit Mexico by land? That is to say, will I have to somehow prove that I already paid the fee for it? I wouldn't want to have to pay for it twice, but I'm not sure how that all works. I haven't flown into Mexico in 15 years, but I'm currently planning a trip in which I'll likely fly into Monterrey or Torreón, then on the return trip cross on foot from Nuevo Laredo to Laredo.


The part you have retained shows how you entered MX. If by air, it will show the date and the flight. When you depart MX by land sea or air INM will see you entered by air and will not require you to pay again. If you entered MX by (Not air )land or sea when you depart MX you will have to present a receipt showing you paid for the entry fee. This can normally be done at a bank. INM normally does not accept direct payments. 

I don't know what happens if one shows up at the border to exit MX without the receipt, even if the FMM is still valid. Of course, if one tries to exit with an expired FMM, it's a "gotcha".


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

kphoger said:


> So, at least in our case, flying, the officials didn't fill them out for us.


You are confused. Of course an immigration agent doesn't fill them out for you when you are flying _into_ Mexico- there is no Mexican immigration desk in the US airports. People normally fill them out on the plane when they pass them out. You don't need it to board the plane, you need it to enter Mexico.

You go to the immigration desk in the Mexican airport when you fly _out_ to get your tourist card stamped before checking in for your flight.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

kphoger said:


> Our best friends just made the drive up to Allende (Coahuila) on Tuesday to cancel their FMMs and TIPs, then stayed the night in Allende, and got new ones the next morning. They mentioned to me by text: "They gave us 180 days" and "The FMMs are especially straightforward now that the officials even fill them out for us".
> 
> I'll be in Mexico visiting them next week and I could ask then, but does anyone have any info about that second part? Are we no longer filling out our own FMMs?





surabi said:


> kphoger said:
> 
> 
> > So, in our case, flying, the officer automatically issued the full 180 days even though I specifically said a duration much shorter than that.
> ...


Perhaps you missed my previous post, wherein I said my best friend had specifically mentioned that an immigration agent had filled out his family's FMMs when "entering" Mexico. Yes, I realize that the KM-53 Aduana just outside Allende isn't the same thing as an airport. But I wasn't sure if FMMs were even being handed out at US airports anymore, or if the INM officer at the MTY immigration desk would be filling it out for me and issuing it upon arrival.

For what it's worth... When I returned to the USA, I caught a taxi from the Nuevo Laredo bus station, and I simply asked him to stop off at the INM office right by Bridge #2. I went inside, turned in my FMM, and got back in the taxi. We got sent to secondary inspection because of some issue with the taxi's VIN or paperwork or something, but other than that it was smooth sailing.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Word from QRoo Paul is that there's a pilot program at some Mexican airports where they have done away with FMM's for visitors from certain countries and stamp your passport and write on that the number of days you're given entry for. 






Which, like before, may be 180 or may be less.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

eastwind said:


> Word from QRoo Paul is that there's a pilot program at some Mexican airports where they have done away with FMM's for visitors from certain countries and stamp your passport and write on that the number of days you're given entry for.


Yes, and I'm eager to see if and when the phase-out affects land crossings. I'm assuming that, once this is implemented at land crossings, it will be especially important for those who live in Mexico on a series of FMMs to stop at INM and get an exit stamp in one's passport before turning around and getting a new entry one. Otherwise, how would the new INM agent know whether you overstayed your welcome or not on the previous one? Continuing this thought, I suspect it could also spell trouble for people who drive across into the US multiple times without canceling either FMM or TIP. Does a TIP become invalid once the associated FMM is canceled? I don't know the answer to that question. But, if it does, then will a TIP continue to be valid after an exit stamp is recorded in one's passport? These are questions I'm interested to find out the answers to...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

This pilot program is (so far) only for airports, so the old TIP process remains unaffected. If you drive a US car in, you'll need to stop and fill out an FMM and get a TIP.

If you're a tourist, the TIP becomes invalid when the FMM does, i.e. when you leave the country via any means (you can't fly out and fly back and still have a valid TIP as tourist).

For TR's, the TIP is attached to your residency, and stays valid if you leave and return. If you leave and return by car I believe the TIP is supposed to be cancelled on the way out and re-obtained on the way back in, but they might not know if you just pretend you never drove out. When your residency expires, if you renew your residency to another TR you can transfer the TIP to the new card, but if you are at the end of 4 years and have to renew to a PR the TIP will become invalid. Same as always.

For people who don't watch the video, the assumption is that if you are coming into Mexico on a visa for canje to residency, in spite of the pilot program you should obtain an FMM and fill it out anyway, so that you have half of it (with the 'canje' box checked) to hand in with your application for residency. You can print one off ahead of time if you have internet and printer access. Be prepared!


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

If it does expand to land crossings, does that mean they'll do away with the Passport Card? Because you can't exactly stamp one of those and write a number in the stamp...


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## elmexpatito1 (2 mo ago)

Hi there,

Sorry to post in a somewhat old thread but I think I've stumbled upon quite a bit of a problem: 

I've been planning for some time now to relocate to Mexico as a "digital nomad", working remotely with my own, recently established business. For this, I approached the Mexican Embassy/Consulate in my country with a whole range of questions about applying for a RT visa based on economic solvency, and after a lot of questions and clarifications I finally felt confident enough about being granted the visa to submit my application (via e-mail as per the Consulate's rules). Regrettably, I recently received information it had been denied, with no explanation whatsoever as to why it was denied - and of course, without any possibility to appeal the decision. 

My first question is, does anyone know if a denied visa application somehow impedes me from applying again for the same type of visa in the future (at the same Consulate that is, as there is only one in the country I'm residing in)? 

Secondly, as I've already booked my flight ticket and made a lot of other preparations for my relocation later this year, I am now considering entering simply on a visa-free 180 days visiting/tourist permit. Does anyone have any good suggestion how I in the best possible way can ensure that the migration officer grants me the full 180 days permit? 

Thirdly, is it really a big no-no to overstay your visiting/tourist permit? Not indefinitely of course but perhaps for another 180 days or something like that. I am totally fine with paying a fine/sanction fee of sorts, but obviously I wouldn't want to risk anything more serious than that - meaning, arrest, deportation, prohibition to re-entry into the country for X years, or some other kind of "red flag" for the migration officers, both inside Mexico/at the airports and abroad at the Consulates, that would perhaps prohibit me from ever being able to obtain a RT/RP visa. 

Thanks in advance for your kind help!


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

So you are applying at a consulate in Denmark? 

Every consulate to some extent makes its own rules, and so nobody can say for sure what they were requiring.

The information in this thread is all I have on whether you'll get 180 days or not. It might depend on whether you have a return ticket reservation or not.

As to overstaying, yes, it's a big deal here. It's not a fine, you go directly to jail, and get deported after a while. Figure 2-4 weeks in jail, depending on how effective your consulate is about getting you out. Having deported you, I think I recall reading that you are blacklisted from entry for 11 years - but I may be misremembering that, it could be another country that does that.


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## elmexpatito1 (2 mo ago)

eastwind said:


> So you are applying at a consulate in Denmark?
> 
> Every consulate to some extent makes its own rules, and so nobody can say for sure what they were requiring.
> 
> ...


Thank for your reply! It is my understanding that the Consulate's assessment of visa applications is a highly arbitrary procedure, and now as they've come to dislike me personally it will probably not be possible for me to apply at this Consulate again, at least not for a few years. Thus I will try to find a Mexican wife while I am there as a tourist, as that seams to be the only means still available for me to obtain a RT visa. A serious relationship of course, not just a means to get the visa. 

Thank you for the heads up, then I will definitely make sure not to overstay the expiry period. Instead, I could opt for a visa run, at least then all they could do is deny me entry, but I wouldn't commit an offense. At least that is my understanding of things...


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