# Making a Will in Tavira



## cab65

I believe that it is wise to make a Portuguese will as well as an English one because I own an apartment in Portugal can anyone recommend a solicitor in the Tavira area please


----------



## Catx

I use Cristina Fernandes for everything, including my will. Their practice is very close to the Vila Gale Hotel, the one near the new bridge. She, and her support team, speak great English, if that is important. I heartily recommend her.

LTCF :: Sociedade de Advogados


----------



## cab65

Thank you, it's great to have a recommendation, I'll certainly use her


----------



## anapedrosa

Cab,
I've been looking into the question of wills myself recently. I believe that if you have an English will, and it is translated into Portuguese and notarized that is the best route. Some of this depends on your citizenship, but Portugal has signed onto an international agreement with regards to wills. This is important, because in Portugal the laws around succession of property are very specific, but they will respect the will of your citizenship. 

Convention providing a Uniform Law on the Form of an International Will (Washington, D.C.1973) 
http://www.unidroit.org/english/implement/i-73.pdf 

I'm not sure if I am allowed to post links, but if not unidroit dot org should get you to the relevant resources. For myself, I will still seek legal advice, but I like to have a sense of the law first (my circumstances are also a bit complex as I have dual citizenship).


----------



## canoeman

You might find this link useful Which law applies? Can I choose the law applicable to my succession? - Successions in Portugal

I think in your case your Will would have to follow Portuguese Law on succession, but your husbands will could follow Canada's.
There are certain things that should be avoided in a Portuguese Will, like trusts, it is not a concept understood in Portuguese law and creates conflict, as does joint tenancy.


----------



## dyerduck

*dyerduck*



cab65 said:


> I believe that it is wise to make a Portuguese will as well as an English one because I own an apartment in Portugal can anyone recommend a solicitor in the Tavira area please


I recently went through this and and had read that now an english passport was sufficient to deal with Portuguese property however a company in UK advised that I should get a Portuguese passport as well so went along to a very well known family solicitor practice in Tavira who I bought the property through 4 years ago called Mansinho. Jose Mansinho had died but the excellent lady assistant was still there the practice was now fronted by Jose's niece Sara Mansinho who had been a Tavira councillor for 6 years. They consulted with the public notary and said that they had come to the conclusion that we did not need a Portuguese passport and in fact were dealing with a UK client's will at that time. I cant talk more highly of this practice their english is impeccable. Any way we have now completed our english passport referring to our Portuguese property and are having it translated into Portuguese by a translator recommended to me by them many years ago. There have been so many changes over the years by the EU that many practices in the UK and Portugal have not kept up with the new regulations and understandably some are reluctant to lose business they had as a right, Fiscal representation is a good example.


----------



## canoeman

You could only get a Portuguese passport by applying to become a Portuguese Citizen, so advice you've been given is not very good, and it is not and never has been a requirement to owning or Willing a property here.

I really don't understand what your referring to when you say "Any way we have now completed our english passport referring to our Portuguese property and are having it translated into Portuguese" as it is not a requirement, or do you mean English Will? 

The main thing you haven't been told or don't seem aware off, is as has been recently covered here, is that unless you *register* a Portuguese Will here relating solely to your Portuguese property and only have a UK Will (translated or not, it makes no difference) including Portuguese property then *that Will must first be probated in UK* before you can *commence* Portuguese Probate.

There are two options to Register
1. An English style Will in Portuguese Notarized before a Notary and kept by you (cheapest)
2. An English style Will in Portuguese Notarized before a Notary and 2 Witness and entered into the Public Record (dearer)


----------



## dyerduck

I am so sorry I made a real error in my reply to your question about Tavira wills I referred to PASSPORT which of course has nothing to do with it I am sorry it was because I broke off to reply to your posting while dealing with a passport renewal. I think I will have to grant my wife lasting power of attorney soon! to repeat, I have written a new English WILL referring to our Portuguese property and had it translated into Portuguese. We were advised by the excellent solicitor referred to in my flawed reply last time that the English Will was all that was required


----------



## dyerduck

canoeman said:


> You could only get a Portuguese passport by applying to become a Portuguese Citizen, so advice you've been given is not very good, and it is not and never has been a requirement to owning or Willing a property here.
> 
> I really don't understand what your referring to when you say "Any way we have now completed our english passport referring to our Portuguese property and are having it translated into Portuguese" as it is not a requirement, or do you mean English Will?
> 
> The main thing you haven't been told or don't seem aware off, is as has been recently covered here, is that unless you *register* a Portuguese Will here relating solely to your Portuguese property and only have a UK Will (translated or not, it makes no difference) including Portuguese property then *that Will must first be probated in UK* before you can *commence* Portuguese Probate.
> 
> There are two options to Register
> 1. An English style Will in Portuguese Notarized before a Notary and kept by you (cheapest)
> 2. An English style Will in Portuguese Notarized before a Notary and 2 Witness and entered into the Public Record (dearer)


Thank you so much for pointing out my idiot mistake, of course I did not mean PASSPORT I meant WILL Just happened to be dealing with a passport renewal at the same time and incidentally on forms granting my wife Lasting Power of Attorney, not before time I hear you say. Thank you again I have always been impressed at your very frequent posting replies


----------



## canoeman

No problem I can only repeat my point again, that 
1. The Will only has to relate to your Portuguese assets
2. It should be Notarized or Registered (must be in Portuguese)
3. To my knowledge a UK Will translated or not is not Legal in Portugal unless it has been first probated in UK, unless Point 2 is done.

It allows Portuguese Probate to begin immediately and even so still reguires a certificate of law of the nationality of the deceased, which basically says The Will would be legal in UK or whichever country your from.

If you can find the post this has recently been covered in some detail, you've missed the Consulate open day which covered this subject (today) in the Algarve, next ones Lisbon 20th

The three things to be careful off
1. Trust & Trustees are not recognized in Portuguese, so create conflict and should be avoided.
2. Ownership
3. Codicils are not possible, changes reguire a new Will


----------



## dyerduck

*dyerduck*

Thank you again for responding. I have read so many conflicting views and doubts on this subject that I might as well add my bit. It seems clear that an English Will made according to English law is valid in Portugal for the disposal of Portuguese property owned by a non Portuguese resident, by the executors to his Will. see Portuguese Civil Code book 5. An English Will does not have to be written by a lawyer to be legal nor does it have to be notarised in Portugal or UK, the Will only has to have the testator's signature witnessed by two people who will not benefit from the Will. see Wills The advice my Portuguese solicitor gave me not to have a Portuguese Will was after consulting the public Notary and after they had seen a copy of my English Will. I am not required to have My English Will translated into Portuguese but think if it is translated by a Portuguese translator of legal documents it will be more understandable when the time comes, no doubt the Public Notary will be involved then. who knows the EU may have issued more directives by then. the European Network of register of Wills is coming up with ideas. I am not a lawyer, our Will is straight forward and I am sure we had sound advice but in all things to do with the law everyone should make their own searches a massive amount of information can be found on the internet and consultation with a Portuguese solicitor is much cheaper than making an unnecessary Portuguese Will.


----------



## canoeman

There is no doubt that the Nationality of a person birth is recognized by Portugal as regards that persons Law on Succession, it's one of the benefits along with no inheritance tax for immediate family of dying in Portugal.
So if your English you can dispose of your Estate how you want, as yes a UK Will when proven to be legal in UK could be used here, but again see below.

Your correct a UK Will does not have to be written by a Lawyer or Notarised in UK, but you are *not *in the UK, you are in Portugal and therefore the requirements are different.

Your Solicitors and Notaries advice is totally contrary to mine, who has dealt with a number of UK Wills plus two extremely tricky ones where no Wills where left, and also the advice from one of the major Portuguese law firms who also practice in the UK, and also the advice being given at the UK Consulate open days.

Which is if your Translated Will is not Notarized or Registered in Portugal by a Public Notary, who can only Notarize or deal with documents in Portuguese, then that Will would reguire Probating in the UK before Probate can start here. Which could result in a lot of extra expense and serious delays before your Executors could follow your wishes.

As you've gone to the extent of having your Will translated, then the easiest and cheapest course of action is to have it Notarized, rather than to land your Executors with a problem. Yes there a lot of information on the Internet not all of it accurate and some of it downright misleading


----------



## dyerduck

canoeman said:


> There is no doubt that the Nationality of a person birth is recognized by Portugal as regards that persons Law on Succession, it's one of the benefits along with no inheritance tax for immediate family of dying in Portugal.
> So if your English you can dispose of your Estate how you want, as yes a UK Will when proven to be legal in UK could be used here, but again see below.
> 
> Your correct a UK Will does not have to be written by a Lawyer or Notarised in UK, but you are *not *in the UK, you are in Portugal and therefore the requirements are different.
> 
> Your Solicitors and Notaries advice is totally contrary to mine, who has dealt with a number of UK Wills plus two extremely tricky ones where no Wills where left, and also the advice from one of the major Portuguese law firms who also practice in the UK, and also the advice being given at the UK Consulate open days.
> 
> Which is if your Translated Will is not Notarized or Registered in Portugal by a Public Notary, who can only Notarize or deal with documents in Portuguese, then that Will would reguire Probating in the UK before Probate can start here. Which could result in a lot of extra expense and serious delays before your Executors could follow your wishes.
> 
> As you've gone to the extent of having your Will translated, then the easiest and cheapest course of action is to have it Notarized, rather than to land your Executors with a problem. Yes there a lot of information on the Internet not all of it accurate and some of it downright misleading


Thank you again sensible advice.


----------



## anapedrosa

Canoeman - your last post suggested the answer to something I have been wondering about and perhaps you can confirm. 
If we have a will notarized in PT and in another country (my case Canada), can the wills be processed in parallel and independently, or is there a requirement to connect the processes between the two countries? I've got this on my list for my next consult with our lawyers, but if you have any knowledge of this I'd appreciate your insight.


----------



## canoeman

From a UK standpoint as I'm a Resident, it's two Wills, one for UK assets, one for Portuguese assets, as any UK assets aren't part of Portuguese Probate or Inheritance Tax if any.
Neither Will relates too other and both are Probated separately.

If I was a UK Resident with a second home in Portugal and benificeries incurred tax in Portugal, that could be offset against estate duty on same assets in UK.

I would think Canada will be broadly similar, but you need to check.


----------



## anapedrosa

canoeman said:


> From a UK standpoint as I'm a Resident, it's two Wills, one for UK assets, one for Portuguese assets, as any UK assets aren't part of Portuguese Probate or Inheritance Tax if any.
> Neither Will relates too other and both are Probated separately.
> 
> If I was a UK Resident with a second home in Portugal and benificeries incurred tax in Portugal, that could be offset against estate duty on same assets in UK.
> 
> I would think Canada will be broadly similar, but you need to check.


I will check, but thank you. We have 4 adults (2 parents and us) that are moving residence to PT, each with assets in both countries - I'm the planner of the group - and I really !! appreciate all the pointers that you have been providing - thank you again!


----------

