# Anyone out there live in Nelson, or been to Nelson?



## MrsRose

I know some of you on this forum have already advised me that as an immigrant from the States, it's probably better for our family to look into the bigger cities like Auckland, Wellington, or Christchurch for work...BUT....Nelson looks so perfect in all other ways for our family! 

It's warm and sunny. It's not a super crowded big city. It's an "outdoor people" kind of city. On the beach. Near to beautiful national parks. lots of mountain biking trails. Housing is less expensive than Auckland and Chch...

My husband is a sparky, and I've looked on trademe.co.nz and there ARE electrician jobs available in Nelson. So my question is:

Can all of you PLEASE put in your two cents regarding the city of Nelson? 

Your overall impressions of the city...the community there...the weather...the housing...traffic...economy...etc.. Oh, and if anyone knows about how much electricians make there that would be great! 

thanks.


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## G-Mo

I've been to Nelson. It's quaint, mostly European expats it seemed to me, crafty, a little quiet and a little sleepy. It has all the things you mention above, but, so does much of New Zealand. While I know Nelson and I think Marlborough "compete" for the most sunlight hours in a year, I didn't notice it being radically different than Auckland (which has slightly less).


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## dodgerodger

Nelson is nice BUT unless you know somebody there you will have a hard time getting a job as a sparky.

I was a sparky in New Zealand and will say this about New Zealand sparky's and well tradesmen in general.
Safety is severely lacking on the job; laziness also prevails in NZ tradesmen work ethic; I have seen tradesmen wearing shorts, tennis shoes etc on the job.

If your husband wants a job as a sparky in New Zealand he will need to lower his expectations of quality of materials and tools as tools are VERY expensive in NZ.
I brought as many tools with me to NZ as I could fit in a suitcase but had to replace the occasional one; I like the brand Klein tools but I didn't want to pay $120 for a pair of cutters that would cost $18 in home depot back in the states but even non brand cutters etc will run you up to and beyond $80.

Getting a job as a sparky is also very difficult in New Zealand coming from America because of the voltage difference and training qualification differences most companies will not even look at your resume if they know you are an American.
I had to get a job as a low voltage tech if I wanted to stay in the electrical field earning $15 an hour which is hardly enough to live on when you have a small family.

But yeah Nelson is nice


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## Song_Si

> tradesmen wearing shorts


is that a criminal offence in USA ? !


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## topcat83

dodgerodger said:


> .... tradesmen wearing shorts....


Ooh yes please (but only if they have nice legs  ) I'm quite partial to the odd Aussie Rules fashion statement too


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## Dani6

Nelson is very popular with retired people who've made their money, not so great for trades people trying to get enough work to earn a living.

Sorry I can't post the link, this is from the start of this year. If you google the first sentence you should find it.

"The Nelson building sector is at rock bottom, with many firms just hanging on, say industry leaders. 

Master Builders Federation president Alistair Middleton said he didn't think the downturn – which was now into its third year – could get any worse, but it had over the past few months as both new house starts and commercial work dried up. 

Firms had been forced to reduce staff and margins had been cut to the bone as builders competed for what little work there was, he said. Even those with good business structures and customer service were feeling the pinch. 

"It's really tough out there – nobody is making any money, and we are all just hanging in there. If it gets worse, some won't survive."


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## MrsRose

Song_Si said:


> is that a criminal offence in USA ? !


Typically, wearing pants while working is a requirement for tradesmen here in the States (for safety reasons). For example: My husband is required to wear steel toe boots, pants, and a hard hat on most job sites. And sometimes required to wear flame resistant clothing, or other special attire depending on the hazard level in certain job sites.


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## MrsRose

dodgerodger said:


> Nelson is nice BUT unless you know somebody there you will have a hard time getting a job as a sparky.
> 
> I was a sparky in New Zealand and will say this about New Zealand sparky's and well tradesmen in general.
> Safety is severely lacking on the job; laziness also prevails in NZ tradesmen work ethic; I have seen tradesmen wearing shorts, tennis shoes etc on the job.
> 
> If your husband wants a job as a sparky in New Zealand he will need to lower his expectations of quality of materials and tools as tools are VERY expensive in NZ.
> I brought as many tools with me to NZ as I could fit in a suitcase but had to replace the occasional one; I like the brand Klein tools but I didn't want to pay $120 for a pair of cutters that would cost $18 in home depot back in the states but even non brand cutters etc will run you up to and beyond $80.
> 
> Getting a job as a sparky is also very difficult in New Zealand coming from America because of the voltage difference and training qualification differences most companies will not even look at your resume if they know you are an American.
> I had to get a job as a low voltage tech if I wanted to stay in the electrical field earning $15 an hour which is hardly enough to live on when you have a small family.
> 
> But yeah Nelson is nice


We are planning to have my husband registered with the New Zealand EWRB and getting him whatever certification/training he needs to switch from US voltage to NZ. Do you think this would make a difference in his chances of being hired?


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## Dani6

MrsRose said:


> Typically, wearing pants while working is a requirement for tradesmen here in the States (for safety reasons). For example: My husband is required to wear steel toe boots, pants, and a hard hat on most job sites. And sometimes required to wear flame resistant clothing, or other special attire depending on the hazard level in certain job sites.


I doubt that it will be that strict in Nelson. There's nothing stopping him from wearing them of course, but most won't be able to afford to kit themselves out in gear like this and only the larger/wealthier employers will give it to their staff gratis.


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## topcat83

Dani6 said:


> I doubt that it will be that strict in Nelson. There's nothing stopping him from wearing them of course, but most won't be able to afford to kit themselves out in gear like this and only the larger/wealthier employers will give it to their staff gratis.


Shorts are very popular with tradespeople over here - especially in the hot summer months. You'll see some guys in them year-round. It certainly isn't seen as unprofessional, and they will be required to wear safety equipment & clothing if they are doing some jobs. You certainly won't see the local fireman pull up to your burning building in shorts (well, not unless he's come straight from milking the cows  )


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## MrsRose

I must admit though, that I am started to feel a bit concerned regarding our chances of integrating smoothly into NZ society. The vibe I'm getting from some threads/posts is that Americans are not as welcome as other immigrants, and that it's difficult for immigrants to find their place among the tight-knit community that exists among kiwis. 

Am I just reading too much into certain posts/threads, or is this a fair concern?


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## topcat83

MrsRose said:


> I must admit though, that I am started to feel a bit concerned regarding our chances of integrating smoothly into NZ society. The vibe I'm getting from some threads/posts is that Americans are not as welcome as other immigrants, and that it's difficult for immigrants to find their place among the tight-knit community that exists among kiwis.
> 
> Am I just reading too much into certain posts/threads, or is this a fair concern?


Please don't feel that. Just bear in mind that there is 'another forum' out there that goes out of its way to 'infiltrate' ours. This is made up of a load of sad people who obviously didn't make a go of it over here and are bitter enough about it that they try and put everyone off.
They reckon we delete everything they write. Well we don't - because the whole point of this forum is to try and give a balanced view. Unfortunately when they're on a roll, then the balance gets skewed. And I will have no qualms about deleting what they say if they become personal or offensive.

The vast majority of Americans (and other nationalities) do not have a problem. It's the ones that come over expecting 'little America' and then get bitter when they can't get their usual brand of convenience food for the same price.


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## MrsRose

topcat83 said:


> Please don't feel that. Just bear in mind that there is 'another forum' out there that goes out of its way to 'infiltrate' ours. This is made up of a load of sad people who obviously didn't make a go of it over here and are bitter enough about it that they try and put everyone off.
> They reckon we delete everything they write. Well we don't - because the whole point of this forum is to try and give a balanced view. Unfortunately when they're on a roll, then the balance gets skewed. And I will have no qualms about deleting what they say if they become personal or offensive.
> 
> The vast majority of Americans (and other nationalities) do not have a problem. It's the ones that come over expecting 'little America' and then get bitter when they can't get their usual brand of convenience food for the same price.


That makes sense I guess. 

It's unfortunate too. 
I wish our family could afford to spend a few weeks there just to travel around and see the different cities, etc...


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## dodgerodger

MrsRose said:


> That makes sense I guess.
> 
> It's unfortunate too.
> I wish our family could afford to spend a few weeks there just to travel around and see the different cities, etc...


Yeah should we have done that but didnt but that is in the past.

Anywho; construction clothes like work pants cost around $80 for ones that will last around 2-3 months.
I brought a 2 pairs of Carhartt pants from USA that lasted over a year but cost around $130 in NZ for one pair where as in USA you can buy several pairs for that price.
You can get them from amazon shipped to NZ for around $80 a pair though which is not too bad considering it is the same price as the crap they sell in NZ.



> Please don't feel that. Just bear in mind that there is 'another forum' out there that goes out of its way to 'infiltrate' ours. This is made up of a load of sad people who obviously didn't make a go of it over here and are bitter enough about it that they try and put everyone off.
> They reckon we delete everything they write. Well we don't - because the whole point of this forum is to try and give a balanced view. Unfortunately when they're on a roll, then the balance gets skewed. And I will have no qualms about deleting what they say if they become personal or offensive.
> 
> The vast majority of Americans (and other nationalities) do not have a problem. It's the ones that come over expecting 'little America' and then get bitter when they can't get their usual brand of convenience food for the same price.


I know what forum you are talking about and 99% of the members did make a go of New Zealand in fact for several years and there are even other kiwi's on that site disenfranchised with their own country.
The fact of the matter is New Zealand IS a small country and yes Americans and other nationals come to NZ and even though they do not expect a 'small america' what greets them is something they were not expecting because it is not in the tourism brochures that New Zealand is highly racist towards foreigners, its not mentioned by your immigration consultant that all kiwi's want to talk about is rugby, drink beer till they are passed out and are lazy workers.
This the new arrival has to find out by themselves. 



> I must admit though, that I am started to feel a bit concerned regarding our chances of integrating smoothly into NZ society. The vibe I'm getting from some threads/posts is that Americans are not as welcome as other immigrants, and that it's difficult for immigrants to find their place among the tight-knit community that exists among kiwis.
> 
> Am I just reading too much into certain posts/threads, or is this a fair concern?


I would seriously come to NZ for a few weeks to a month before immigrating after selling everything and severing your ties; then you can see if NZ is for your family.
I was kicking myself for the years I was here that I didn't just come to visit first.


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## topcat83

I think dodgeroo has just proven my point 
Just bear in mind that 'that other forum' was set up solely for the purpose of slagging New Zealand down. 

Now - which forum is likely to be more balanced? :confused2:


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## MrsRose

The US of A is a great country in many, many ways, and I'm sure there will be many things I would miss if we moved out of the country. But having said that, I'm sure I could also create a whole forum solely devoted to all the reasons why the US is NOT the best country in the world either. 

Living in New Zealand isn't like what they present in the promotional videos and brochures? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, if a family spent all of their time swimming with dolphins off shore, kayaking, hiking, surfing, skiing, and enjoying fine wine, they'd quickly find that they have no money left to live on. But that's true of any country. 
I've seen promo videos and brochures for the US and it's the same way. They're PROMOTING it. They're not gonna show the rougher, tougher parts of living here. Having lived in Las Vegas Nevada for about 6 years now, I can attest to the unrealistic expectations people can have when they base their desire to live somewhere off of a tourist promotion, or a vacation they spent there. Ever thinks Las Vegas is this magical place of bright lights, shows, and 24/7 nightlife. On Las Vegas Boulevard...that may be true. But that's ONE street in Las Vegas. And to be honest, I can count on two hands the amount of times in 6 years of living here that I've been to the glittering, hotel/casino part of Las Vegas Boulevard. The rest of Las Vegas is like any other old city. Except hotter, and drier, and there nothing to see but dirt, dirt, dirt. 

Anyway, my point is...We know that moving to NZ doesn't mean every day will be vacation for the rest of our lives. It's just gonna be a different way of living. maybe not better. maybe not worse. just different. 

Everyone keeps trying to tell me the grass isn't greener on the other side. But coming from Las Vegas, it wouldn't matter where in New Zealand we choose, the grass WILL be greener...literally. 

And the air will be cleaner. And the water will be bluer. and there's not a city in all of NZ that has even close to as high of a crime rate as Las Vegas.


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## Song_Si

> if a family spent all of their time swimming with dolphins off shore, kayaking, hiking, surfing, skiing, and enjoying fine wine,


not entirely impossible depending on location; eg my last home in Wellington's south coast - Owhiro Bay. Walk to the beach under 10min, close enough to take a 5m kayak on a 2-wheel trundler, head out into Cook Strait. Dolphins on occasion, orcas too but I never timed it right and it was always '_you should have been here yesterday'_

South of the beach, the coast walk to Red Rocks - mountainbiking. A round of the world downhill mountainbiking champs held here a few years ago. A huge area of conservation land, also hosts a round of the annual trail running series; stunning views from Hawkins Hill about 500m above sea level. All free.

Surfing - not for me, but Lyall Bay 10km away adjoining the airport for Wellington's best surf beach, good swimming too. Not a skier but have worked with plenty of people who'd take Friday as annual leave and head 4hrs north to the central mountains for the weekend. Fine wine - I prefer a good whisky.

Our house - built around 2000 to a high standard; wool rather than synthetic insulation in walls and ceiling; quality joinery, built for the sun. Never isolated to one room, warm! and (bear in mind I left 2009) never reached $200 a month electricity bill, plus about $40 a month for natural gas (cooking and water heating). 

I worked in international recruitment for most of my last 10 yrs there, primarily recruiting from UK, maybe only 3-5% USA, 10-15% Asia. I could be at my office in The Terrace (central Wgtn) in under 20min. I think 12 was a personal best. Public transport was poor at that time, unreliable as well as slow, and bus was anything from 40-60min, though I see the2012 timetable runs a direct link, maybe 30 now.

Some complete success stories, and some 'fails' as well. Incidences of company cars being abandoned at Auckland airport and a message left on voicemail "_I've gone home"_. Often I'd put it down to something as simple as homesickness - a relationship breakdown, lack of family support. Unrealistic expectations, poorly researched - people wanting to 'get away from the city' then disappointed their town of 5000 does not have five supermarkets and a mega-mall. 

And _there are no hobbits!_


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## MrsRose

Song_Si said:


> not entirely impossible depending on location; eg my last home in Wellington's south coast - Owhiro Bay. Walk to the beach under 10min, close enough to take a 5m kayak on a 2-wheel trundler, head out into Cook Strait. Dolphins on occasion, orcas too but I never timed it right and it was always '_you should have been here yesterday'_
> 
> South of the beach, the coast walk to Red Rocks - mountainbiking. A round of the world downhill mountainbiking champs held here a few years ago. A huge area of conservation land, also hosts a round of the annual trail running series; stunning views from Hawkins Hill about 500m above sea level. All free.
> 
> Surfing - not for me, but Lyall Bay 10km away adjoining the airport for Wellington's best surf beach, good swimming too. Not a skier but have worked with plenty of people who'd take Friday as annual leave and head 4hrs north to the central mountains for the weekend. Fine wine - I prefer a good whisky.
> 
> Our house - built around 2000 to a high standard; wool rather than synthetic insulation in walls and ceiling; quality joinery, built for the sun. Never isolated to one room, warm! and (bear in mind I left 2009) never reached $200 a month electricity bill, plus about $40 a month for natural gas (cooking and water heating).
> 
> I worked in international recruitment for most of my last 10 yrs there, primarily recruiting from UK, maybe only 3-5% USA, 10-15% Asia. I could be at my office in The Terrace (central Wgtn) in under 20min. I think 12 was a personal best. Public transport was poor at that time, unreliable as well as slow, and bus was anything from 40-60min, though I see the2012 timetable runs a direct link, maybe 30 now.
> 
> Some complete success stories, and some 'fails' as well. Incidences of company cars being abandoned at Auckland airport and a message left on voicemail "_I've gone home"_. Often I'd put it down to something as simple as homesickness - a relationship breakdown, lack of family support. Unrealistic expectations, poorly researched - people wanting to 'get away from the city' then disappointed their town of 5000 does not have five supermarkets and a mega-mall.
> 
> And _there are no hobbits!_


Well that settles it. If there are no hobbits, I'm staying in the US.


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## Song_Si

back to Nelson - the town itself has only about 50,000 population I think, by virtue of that small number there can only be fewer jobs than Wellington etc. Places that size, New Plymouth, Napier etc have remained static population-wise with a drift to bigger cities; no population increase, little need for new homes/jobs. 
I used to look for jobs in the area but there were only two suitable employers for me, needed someone to die! and then be one of a hundred or more applicants.

we need some pretty pictures
















1 Nelson 2 Nelson Hobbit film location

more here, (but still, no Hobbit)


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## anski

dodgerodger said:


> Getting a job as a sparky is also very difficult in New Zealand coming from America because of the voltage difference and training qualification differences most companies will not even look at your resume if they know you are an American.
> I had to get a job as a low voltage tech if I wanted to stay in the electrical field earning $15 an hour which is hardly enough to live on when you have a small family.


Not sure when you lived & worked in New Zealand for $15 an hour & wish you were still around because my local electrician charges me $75 an hour plus travelling of $35 even though he works from home & lives 2 streets away.

These are the current pay rates

Project Cost Estimator - Hourly Rates for Electricians @ Tradebox


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## anski

MrsRose said:


> The US of A is a great country in many, many ways, and I'm sure there will be many things I would miss if we moved out of the country. But having said that, I'm sure I could also create a whole forum solely devoted to all the reasons why the US is NOT the best country in the world either.
> 
> Living in New Zealand isn't like what they present in the promotional videos and brochures? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, if a family spent all of their time swimming with dolphins off shore, kayaking, hiking, surfing, skiing, and enjoying fine wine, they'd quickly find that they have no money left to live on. But that's true of any country.
> I've seen promo videos and brochures for the US and it's the same way. They're PROMOTING it. They're not gonna show the rougher, tougher parts of living here. Having lived in Las Vegas Nevada for about 6 years now, I can attest to the unrealistic expectations people can have when they base their desire to live somewhere off of a tourist promotion, or a vacation they spent there. Ever thinks Las Vegas is this magical place of bright lights, shows, and 24/7 nightlife. On Las Vegas Boulevard...that may be true. But that's ONE street in Las Vegas. And to be honest, I can count on two hands the amount of times in 6 years of living here that I've been to the glittering, hotel/casino part of Las Vegas Boulevard. The rest of Las Vegas is like any other old city. Except hotter, and drier, and there nothing to see but dirt, dirt, dirt.
> 
> Anyway, my point is...We know that moving to NZ doesn't mean every day will be vacation for the rest of our lives. It's just gonna be a different way of living. maybe not better. maybe not worse. just different.
> 
> Everyone keeps trying to tell me the grass isn't greener on the other side. But coming from Las Vegas, it wouldn't matter where in New Zealand we choose, the grass WILL be greener...literally.
> 
> And the air will be cleaner. And the water will be bluer. and there's not a city in all of NZ that has even close to as high of a crime rate as Las Vegas.


Mrs Rose,

Do not be put off by others making negative posts about NZ, as I replied in another post I cannot get an electrician for $15 an hour, I wish I could though!

I found this info Project Cost Estimator - Hourly Rates for Electricians @ Tradebox & I would say this is pretty accurate in relation to tradesmen's hourly rates.

Although the minimum wage in NZ is $13.50 an hour many people get way above this. A friend of mine works in a boutique & earns $26 hour plus commission. 

Kiwi's do not make new comers unwelcome, I know of several American families that have made the adjustment. Auckland is simply full of people from others parts of NZ & the rest of the world & our circle of friends is multi cultural.

If you are missing some good old American fare there is a shop nearby Martha's Backyard

I am very familiar with Nevada I have been visiting on a regular basis since 1985 & on my visit last September I was horrified to see the extent the downturn in the economy has had there. I have never seen so many homeless people, & I have certainly never seen anything like it in either the North or the South Island in New Zealand.
It is normal to feel uncertain when contemplating making such a big move. Why not plan of giving it a go for a period of a year or 2 if it does not work out you can always return back to the USA.


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## toojoon

Been to Nelson, and it's great in the Summer months, Jan/Feb. Hot and sunny with great beach weather!


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## Song_Si

Some people stats

when people gripe about 'kiwis' - in Auckland there is a roughly 40% chance (probably more given that these stats from 2006 Census) that the person was in fact born out of the country . . . 



> *Auckland’s population is becoming increasingly diverse.*
> The region is now the most ethnically diverse in the country.
> In 1986, 23 per cent of the region’s population was born overseas.
> This proportion has steadily risen to reach 37 per cent by 2006.
> Auckland is currently home to over 150 ethnicities from all corners of the world.
> source


and these stats taken from migrants after they have been in NZ for three years; as with all stats an up and down-side - if 70% have enough or more than enough money, then 30% don't.
Three years is I think a reasonable time to be asking these questions - over that 'thrill' of shifting to a new country, and settled into the day to day lifestyle




> Highlights
> September 2010
> 
> 75.7 percent of migrants were employed at wave 3, compared with 72.1 percent at wave 1.
> 69.8 percent of employed migrants worked in a skilled job at wave 3, which is similar to the proportion at wave 1 (67.8 percent).
> 84.9 percent of employed migrants were either satisfied or very satisfied with their main job at wave 3, compared with 80.8 percent at wave 1.
> The real median hourly wages of employed migrants increased from $20.35 at wave 1 to $23.49 at wave 3.
> 70.6 percent of migrants had enough or more than enough money to meet their everyday needs at waves 1 and 3.
> 51.9 percent of migrants owned or partly owned their dwelling at wave 3, compared with 30.6 percent at wave 1.
> 49.3 percent of migrants lived in the Auckland region at the third wave, 31.5 percent lived in the rest of the North Island, and 19.3 percent lived in the South Island.
> More than nine out of ten migrants were either satisfied or very satisfied with life in New Zealand (93.8 percent at wave 1 and 92.3 percent at wave 3), although there was a decrease in the proportion of migrants who were very satisfied, down from 44.7 percent at wave 1 to 35.5 percent at wave 3.
> 76.0 percent of migrants felt either safe or very safe in New Zealand at wave 3, compared with 85.5 percent at wave 1.
> 78.4 percent of migrants had gained or intended to apply for New Zealand citizenship at wave 3. Compared with migrants from other regions, migrants from South Africa (93.3 percent), the Pacific (93.0 percent), and South Asia (86.5 percent) were more likely to have gained, or want to apply for, New Zealand citizenship.


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## Song_Si

toojoon said:


> Been to Nelson, and it's great in the Summer months, Jan/Feb. Hot and sunny with great beach weather!


and scenic in winter!









St Arnaud, Nelson Lakes. 
27/06/2012


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## expatrion

MrsRose said:


> I know some of you on this forum have already advised me that as an immigrant from the States, it's probably better for our family to look into the bigger cities like Auckland, Wellington, or Christchurch for work...BUT....Nelson looks so perfect in all other ways for our family!
> 
> It's warm and sunny. It's not a super crowded big city. It's an "outdoor people" kind of city. On the beach. Near to beautiful national parks. lots of mountain biking trails. Housing is less expensive than Auckland and Chch...
> 
> My husband is a sparky, and I've looked on trademe.co.nz and there ARE electrician jobs available in Nelson. So my question is:
> 
> Can all of you PLEASE put in your two cents regarding the city of Nelson?
> 
> Your overall impressions of the city...the community there...the weather...the housing...traffic...economy...etc.. Oh, and if anyone knows about how much electricians make there that would be great!
> 
> thanks.



Its a great place. Just rent for 6 months before you dig in. Nelson is very ecclectic but you'll never be a local-not that that matters. Its got a bit of a hippy/organic vibe and is absolutely a gem. But after a year, everybody knows your business-if you dont mind.....


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## robbob

Nelson is a fine small city. It is a close community but by no means all reitrees or hippies. There are plenty of both, but also a sizeable Maori/PI and Asian population. Probably 25% or more.
There is no racial divide.
Work can be limited in certain areas, but trade vancanies are usually available, and once you earn a good name for yourself you'll always be employed.
As far as being accepted and fitting in... make an effort to do things for otehrs, help in a sports club, a school, a charity, and in a year or so you'll be repaid. Don't assume your ways are superior, and be willing to accept Nelsons way, warts and all. One reason so many fail in NZ is they arrive with notiopns of what it should be like, then try to change everyone and everything around them into what they think is better... Just arrive, find work, relax and wait... in a couple of years the things you think should be changed may well make a lot more sense.
Nelson is not as quick as some other places to befriend strangers, partly becusase it's quite remote and close-knit... but it's still a freindly place.
It's way better than anywhere else in NZ...


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## pookienuffnuff

Nelson is a nice laid back quaint sort of place. Quite hilly. As others have said. It is quite boho, arty, crafty, that sort of vibe. It rains more there than Marlborough (being on the west side of the mountains). And has had a number of flood events lately when it rains. So dont live in flat areas. Also landslides so dont live on hillsides. Good 2ndhand shops but I prefer life in Marlborough where it rains less. Wearing shorts is normal here...with steel toe caps. Never trust a smart/overdressed tradesman.


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## pookienuffnuff

topcat83 said:


> Please don't feel that. Just bear in mind that there is 'another forum' out there that goes out of its way to 'infiltrate' ours. This is made up of a load of sad people who obviously didn't make a go of it over here and are bitter enough about it that they try and put everyone off.
> They reckon we delete everything they write. Well we don't - because the whole point of this forum is to try and give a balanced view. Unfortunately when they're on a roll, then the balance gets skewed. And I will have no qualms about deleting what they say if they become personal or offensive.
> 
> The vast majority of Americans (and other nationalities) do not have a problem. It's the ones that come over expecting 'little America' and then get bitter when they can't get their usual brand of convenience food for the same price.


Very true, its not cheap here and its not little america. And to be fair NZ is no more anti american than anywhere else. If you make the effort to fit in then people will accept you. If you dont then they wont. Simples.


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## pookienuffnuff

MrsRose said:


> The US of A is a great country in many, many ways, and I'm sure there will be many things I would miss if we moved out of the country. But having said that, I'm sure I could also create a whole forum solely devoted to all the reasons why the US is NOT the best country in the world either.
> 
> Living in New Zealand isn't like what they present in the promotional videos and brochures? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, if a family spent all of their time swimming with dolphins off shore, kayaking, hiking, surfing, skiing, and enjoying fine wine, they'd quickly find that they have no money left to live on. But that's true of any country.
> I've seen promo videos and brochures for the US and it's the same way. They're PROMOTING it. They're not gonna show the rougher, tougher parts of living here. Having lived in Las Vegas Nevada for about 6 years now, I can attest to the unrealistic expectations people can have when they base their desire to live somewhere off of a tourist promotion, or a vacation they spent there. Ever thinks Las Vegas is this magical place of bright lights, shows, and 24/7 nightlife. On Las Vegas Boulevard...that may be true. But that's ONE street in Las Vegas. And to be honest, I can count on two hands the amount of times in 6 years of living here that I've been to the glittering, hotel/casino part of Las Vegas Boulevard. The rest of Las Vegas is like any other old city. Except hotter, and drier, and there nothing to see but dirt, dirt, dirt.
> 
> Anyway, my point is...We know that moving to NZ doesn't mean every day will be vacation for the rest of our lives. It's just gonna be a different way of living. maybe not better. maybe not worse. just different.
> 
> Everyone keeps trying to tell me the grass isn't greener on the other side. But coming from Las Vegas, it wouldn't matter where in New Zealand we choose, the grass WILL be greener...literally.
> 
> And the air will be cleaner. And the water will be bluer. and there's not a city in all of NZ that has even close to as high of a crime rate as Las Vegas.


NZ is NOT the clean and green capital of the world. They promote it as that but sadly it is quite lacking in environmental controls compared to the rest of the developed world. I work in this sphere and I was quite shocked. The air is often not clean due to high smoke levels (no central heating...wood fires), the rivers and seas polluted by effluent that other countries would not permit. Its getting better but most of Europe is cleaner and greener (even USA is). Cant say Las vegas is but the env rules in USA are often much stricter so may well be. And public transport virtually non existant outside Auck n Wellington etc. So everyone drives (even short distances ala USA). But its better than alot of places I could mention.


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## MrsRose

pookienuffnuff said:


> NZ is NOT the clean and green capital of the world. They promote it as that but sadly it is quite lacking in environmental controls compared to the rest of the developed world. I work in this sphere and I was quite shocked. The air is often not clean due to high smoke levels (no central heating...wood fires), the rivers and seas polluted by effluent that other countries would not permit. Its getting better but most of Europe is cleaner and greener (even USA is). Cant say Las vegas is but the env rules in USA are often much stricter so may well be. And public transport virtually non existant outside Auck n Wellington etc. So everyone drives (even short distances ala USA). But its better than alot of places I could mention.



Oh no, I didn't mean "greener" as in the whole saving energy/recycling/save-the-trees kind of "greener." I meant it quite literally. As in the color green....as in grass and trees greener. 
I've lived in the Mohave Desert region of the Southwest US most of my life. Nothin' but dirt, dirt, dirt. Brown everywhere. I'm looking forward to lots of GREEN in New Zealand. 

We have some public transport in Las Vegas (city buses and taxis) bu the city is very spread out so there are no trolleys, etc. It's pretty much the dame here though. Typically only really big cities have decent public transportation systems in place.


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## MrsRose

regarding the air quality and environmental state of New Zealand though, I'm confused. Cause I've done quite a bit of internet research on the air quality and cleanliness of world cities, and Auckland and Wellington rank in the top 25 in the world on many of the lists. And the World Health Organization's most recent data on worldwide cities and air quality gives Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch good scores for air quality. ??


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## Song_Si

Some links on Nelson and its air quality/air pollution problems, and what they have achieved in the last 10 years

Nelson City Council Air Quality

Nelson's air quality campaign scoops two national awards


> 6 June 2012
> Nelson breached the National Standard for Air Quality 81 times in 2001, and after introducing the air quality campaign, breached the standard just 15 times in 2011 and just eight times in 2010. There have been no breaches so far this year.
> 
> *Background to Nelson’s air quality campaign*
> 
> 
> A study with the health sector, iwi and community organisations led to the development of a public discussion document, Clearing the Air: a Strategy for Change in November 2002 and establishment of the Nelson Air Quality Plan (notified 3 August 2003 and made operative 3 November 2008). The Plan set in place rules and a timeframe for the phasing out of all open fires in the urban area, and certain enclosed burners in the most polluted airsheds.
> Financial assistance provided through the Council’s Clean Heat Warm Homes scheme resulted in 433 open fires and 1546 old burners being replaced with cleaner forms of heating and improved insulation in 1370 affected homes.
> The Council’s ongoing “Good Wood” initiative improves the quality of wood sold through a voluntary code of practice that suppliers sign up to, providing easier access to good wood (i.e. less than 25% moisture level).


People can breathe easy in the city nowadays 


> Nelson MP Nick Smith said the council had rightly acknowledged that improvement in air quality had been achieved by home owners' co-operation, firewood retailers converting to dry wood and industrial emitters investing in new technology.
> "Few people appreciate that more than 1000 people a year die predominantly from particulate pollution in New Zealand.
> "Nelson has gone from having the worst air quality to the most improved."


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## Song_Si

and Christchurch - as with Nelson, rub two sticks together, make a fire, and send smoke signals!!


Air pollution in Christchurch



> *Eighty percent of Christchurch’s winter air pollution comes from wood or coal burners and open fires. Only 10 percent comes from vehicles and 10 percent from industry.*
> 
> The older and less efficient a fire is, the greater the quantity of emitted dangerous fine particulate emissions (known as PM10). On cold, still winter nights, these particles can form into a choking, brown smog.
> 
> For up to 50 days each winter, the level of PM10 particles in the air in Christchurch exceeds Ministry for the Environment guidelines. Research indicates each year this pollution is responsible for:
> 
> 
> serious health problems for several thousand people, such as respiratory and cardiac illness (causing them to take time off work, which affects the local economy)
> the premature deaths of more than 150 people due to respiratory or cardiac illness
> higher health costs for everyone, due to heavier demand on the health system
> a damaging effect on the public image of Christchurch.
> 
> In Christchurch, because there are hills close by, a layer of warmer air, known as an inversion layer, traps the smog down at street level. This directly affects the people who live there. Although the problem is at its worst in the evening, the smog is often clearly visible the next morning.


Up to date data: Check air pollution in towns around Canterbury, in the last few hours, days, months or years. 

*Wellington Air Quality*
Greater Wellington measures air quality indicators (such as PM10, carbon monoxide and nitrogen dioxide) at several sites across the region. At most of our air quality sites, we also measure meteorological information such as wind speed/direction, air temperature, relative humidity, barometric pressure etc. The parameters that are monitored vary from site to site.

Wellington Air Quality Report


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## sillygumbo

*Vegas also*



MrsRose said:


> I know some of you on this forum have already advised me that as an immigrant from the States, it's probably better for our family to look into the bigger cities like Auckland, Wellington, or Christchurch for work...BUT....Nelson looks so perfect in all other ways for our family!
> 
> It's warm and sunny. It's not a super crowded big city. It's an "outdoor people" kind of city. On the beach. Near to beautiful national parks. lots of mountain biking trails. Housing is less expensive than Auckland and Chch...
> 
> My husband is a sparky, and I've looked on trademe.co.nz and there ARE electrician jobs available in Nelson. So my question is:
> 
> Can all of you PLEASE put in your two cents regarding the city of Nelson?
> 
> Your overall impressions of the city...the community there...the weather...the housing...traffic...economy...etc.. Oh, and if anyone knows about how much electricians make there that would be great!
> 
> thanks.


HI MrsRose- I wanted to touch base because I also live in Vegas and my husband is in the trades too. I am unable to PM because I dont have 5 posts yet. I am working on it. We will be moving to NZ in March and I also have a 2 year old. Too much in common, right?

Kristin


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## MrsRose

sillygumbo said:


> HI MrsRose- I wanted to touch base because I also live in Vegas and my husband is in the trades too. I am unable to PM because I dont have 5 posts yet. I am working on it. We will be moving to NZ in March and I also have a 2 year old. Too much in common, right?
> 
> Kristin


How fun! You'll have to message me when you can.


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## pookienuffnuff

Aha, I see...I have lived too many years in a 'green and pleasant land' (green cos it rains alot) and so I dont really like the colour green....I like desert n dirt 
But I am 'green' as in environmental ;-)
Wellington and Auckalnd probably have better air, they have mains gas (for heating) rather than smokey wood fires and public transport so less car fumes. But here in south island (no mains gas and LPG expensive compared to wood) rural towns have predominance of wood fires and they are smokey. With the temp inversion it tends to sink to ground level. So beware as Nelson may be same as here (our town failed its air emmissions limits 6 times last winter) and this one is apparently colder. But I think all this has now been covered by the moderators very informative replies....


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