# Visa status update



## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Your Passport has been received. Please collect it from UK Visa Application Centre where you submitted your application between 2pm to 3pm Monday thru Friday

Any ideas whether this is good news or bad


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

Burt888 said:


> Your Passport has been received. Please collect it from UK Visa Application Centre where you submitted your application between 2pm to 3pm Monday thru Friday
> 
> Any ideas whether this is good news or bad


Normally you get message like this .....Your application has been approved and the visa has been issued.

This is an automated message - do not respond to this email address as incoming mail is not answered. If you need to reply telephone the office dealing with your application, quoting your reference number.

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We keep and use information in line with the Data Protection Act 1998. We may release this personal information to other UK government departments and public authorities.

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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

The message tends to vary depending on which hub has sent it out, and some of them say nothing whatsoever about any visa being issued, so don't worry if your message does not either. It doesn't necessarily mean bad news - just that they won't (for your privacy) say anything until you collect your package.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Looks like I'm not sleeping tonight I don't think will be good news as it didnt take long to process just into the 9th week I was expecting a few more months of waiting its the not knowing that is bad at the moment and that tomorrow could be either the best or worst day of my life oh well fingers crossed and praying that it will be good news


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Let's think POSITIVE thoughts... 

Here's hoping that you get an approval in your application and I get a "Pass" on my Life in the UK test tomorrow.


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

Burt888 said:


> Looks like I'm not sleeping tonight I don't think will be good news as it didnt take long to process just into the 9th week I was expecting a few more months of waiting its the not knowing that is bad at the moment and that tomorrow could be either the best or worst day of my life oh well fingers crossed and praying that it will be good news


I have seen spouse Visa processed in 6 days so is not new just be positive and hope for the best


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Bad news visa refused again I'm crying again now


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

Burt888 said:


> Bad news visa refused again I'm crying again now


Sorry to hear that,which reason did they give for the refusal ?


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirements as defined by paragraph e ecp 3.3 I am not able to take into account any potential employment available to you in the uk or any offers of financial help from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements your sponsor needs a gross income of Atleast £18600 per annum

You say in your appendix your sponsor is employed by .... Since ... You also say your sponsor is employed by .... Since .... You say your sponsors gross salary is £17779.97 I am therefore not satisfied that your sponsors income meets the new financial requirements, in respect of salaried employment in the uk all of the following documents (original documents) must be provided 

The p60 for the relevant periods
Wage slips covering - a period of 6 or 12 months depending on employment history




Now for my part we already included 12 months worth of original current account bank statements showing around £3000 to £5000 every month we also included statements printed in bank and stamped for the savings account plus the original I got in April as this account I only get yearly statements these savings account statements showed roughly £45000 we also included 4 p60's covering 2 years for 2 jobs and 12 months of payslips for each job one is paid 4 weekly and other is monthly ... We applied category a plus savings but they haven't said anything about the savings it's like they've being ignored .... I receive about £1000 interest in total on these accounts can this be counted as income .... I thought what I showed would have been enough it seems they are happy with rest of application 
Do you think we would win an appeal please help very disappointed again right now


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

Burt888 said:


> Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirements as defined by paragraph e ecp 3.3 I am not able to take into account any potential employment available to you in the uk or any offers of financial help from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements your sponsor needs a gross income of Atleast £18600 per annum
> 
> You say in your appendix your sponsor is employed by .... Since ... You also say your sponsor is employed by .... Since .... You say your sponsors gross salary is £17779.97 I am therefore not satisfied that your sponsors income meets the new financial requirements, in respect of salaried employment in the uk all of the following documents (original documents) must be provided
> 
> ...


2farapart and Joppa will be in a better position to advise you once again am very sorry


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Burt888 - I am SO sorry to hear this. I logged on hoping for good news! 

If you applied under *Category A*, was every single payslip showing £1,550 per month before tax from just one job? If not, this is why they might have failed your application. Savings won't be used to shore up past income (they can only be used where the current/future job does not meet £18,600). You can however use interest from savings as past income (see below)...

If you are relying on the income from more than one job, or if income can vary from month to month, with a danger that the income can fall below £1,550 in any month, an application must be made under *Category B* instead, with 12 months payslips and bank statements. The income *from the most recent 12 months only *must be at least £18,600 (so if the most recent 12 months did not add up to £18,600, this would also be a fail). I don't know how pedantic UKBA are being with selected categories (ie if you applied under A, but they see instead you only meet the requirement under B, would they allow it if the conditions of B are met by the supplied evidence, or would they fail it anyway simply because the wrong category was ticked). I would hope they would use reason here, but I don't know that fact.

Under both categories,* interest from savings *can be used as additional non-employment income. However, you need to provide 12 months of bank statements proving that the savings were paid into your own bank account. If you only receive a yearly statement you might need to obtain a letter from the bank confirming the amount of interest you earnt, that it was last paid into account number [xxxxxx] on date [xxxxxx] and that statements are only provided (or interest is only paid) annually. 

____________________________

The basis of their refusal is their statement that only £17779.97 was earnt by the sponsor in the last 12 months. If you can prove that UKBA was incorrect on this calculation (ie they didn't take all sources of income into account) then you do have a fair crack at an appeal. Take the lowest payslip from the last 6 months, multiply the figure by 12 and then add the £1000 interest from savings to the result - does this equal £18,600? What I don't know is whether, if an application was made incorrectly under Category A, would they allow an appeal asking for consideration under Category B. The whole purpose of the financial requirement is simply to prove £18,600 a year has been and will continue to be earned, so I would hope that this would be allowed (but as said before, I don't KNOW this - it's just my personal hope).

A good point to start with is understanding where you think the application might have gone wrong. Start by checking that every payslip showed a minimum £1550 per month in the last 6 months only (not 12). *If you suspect you used the wrong category, then see what Joppa has to say about whether he thinks an appeal is worth it*, or whether to re-apply under the correct category with a letter explaining why your previous application failed.

Once again, I'm so sorry you received a refusal.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

The amount earnt is correct but I thought category a you could use savings to make up the difference ie I earnt 17779.97 in last 12 months take this amount from 18,600 and add it to savings over 16000 and it would be ok but maybe you can't .... Does it mean what ever way you use a salary if its under 18600 you can't apply even with savings I thought that was what option a was we put category a and d I think to add savings


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Is it me who makes appeal or partner in Pakistan


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Category a can be used with other options I checked on website the person they use is earning £8000 plus has income from renting property which takes it to £17000 so still need to add savings aswell and this is shown in there example


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Burt888 said:


> The amount earnt is correct but I thought category a you could use savings to make up the difference ie I earnt 17779.97 in last 12 months take this amount from 18,600 and add it to savings over 16000 and it would be ok but maybe you can't .... Does it mean what ever way you use a salary if its under 18600 you can't apply even with savings I thought that was what option a was we put category a and d I think to add savings


I've looked thoroughly through Appendix FM again this morning and I cannot find the reference that used to be there (it's possible the appendix has been rewritten because new clarifications have been added under Category B following the December changes). It seems from my reading that savings cannot be used under _Category B_. However, there is no such mention under Category A.

Indeed, there is a very useful case study in the latest Appendix FM (meeting the financial requirement) which illustrates a candidate meeting Category A in a situation similar to yours (substitute rental income for interest from savings)... 



> In an application for leave to remain the applicant’s partner has been working for the same employer at the point of application for the last 6 months. They earn a gross annual salary of £8,000 a year and have been earning the same salary for at least that 6-month period. They receive non-employment income from a rental property and in the 12 months prior to the application they received a gross rental income of £9,000; they continue to own the property. The sponsor’s total income is therefore £17,000.
> 
> The applicant’s partner also has cash savings of £25,000. She can meet the savings requirements of the rules including holding those savings for at least 6 months prior to the application, the savings being above £16,000, and having the savings under her control. The amount of savings that can be used towards the financial requirement is £3,600. (£25,000 minus £16,000) divided by 2.5 = £3,600
> 
> Using a combination of Categories A, C and D the applicant’s partner has £20,600 in income and savings which can be relied up to meet the financial requirement of £18,600. (£17,000 income plus £3,600 savings)


Have you held the £45,000 cash savings in an immediate-access bank account for at least 6 months? If so, based on this case study, you very likely have a valid application under Categories A, C and D as follows (or even just Categories A and D) meaning that UKBA's decision was indeed incorrect:

___

(1) Take your partner's LOWEST pay in the most recent 6 months pay slips (gross figure before tax) and multiply it by 12 for Category A's gross salary.

(2) Add to this the £1,000 interest from savings for Category C in case it's needed.

(3) Finally, take your £45,000 cash savings, and deduct the minimum threshold £16,000 (equals £29,000). Divide this by 2.5 years duration of the visa. This equals a further £11,600 per year for Category D.
___

This means that, if your partner's Category A salary per year (1) is at least £7,000 then you don't even need to use interest from savings (2) - that is: a combination of Category A and D make up the £18,600 alone. *The caveat is that you can prove that you've held those cash savings in an immediate-access bank account for at least 6 months and you have the bank account statements to prove this.* If so, you should have grounds for appeal on the basis that UKBA calculated your earnings incorrectly (presumably by not taking your savings into consideration).


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

That was the point we put category a and d put main income all savings and then added second job as extra but they didnt need to consider this as savings should have been enough .... Savings are in an Isa but can be withdrawn at anytime £31000 and £16000 in a different savings account I just thought though if I'd added the interest from savings it would have taken me over the £18600 aswell without the need for savings ..... I'm totally confused by it all off to see solicitor now to see what they say


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Burt888 said:


> That was the point we put category a and d put main income all savings and then added second job as extra but they didnt need to consider this as savings should have been enough .... Savings are in an Isa but can be withdrawn at anytime £31000 and £16000 in a different savings account I just thought though if I'd added the interest from savings it would have taken me over the £18600 aswell without the need for savings ..... I'm totally confused by it all off to see solicitor now to see what they say


Ah! That makes more sense. Only use ONE job under Category A (there's a possibility that they looked at your application under Category B because of the two jobs being supplied as evidence - and Category B does not allow savings to be used to make up past earnings. This is my biggest suspect. If so, it is still technically a mistake made by UKBA because you did choose Category A, not B.

Also make sure it's made MOST clear that those ISAs are both immediate-access (in case UKBA assumed they were ordinary ISAs that require advance notice of withdrawal).

And yes, interest from these can be used, but you must supply 12 months of supporting bank statements according to the rules which show the total interest being paid into your account. 

I agree: get some legal advice - and good luck! it sounds to me like you have a chance provided you do meet the requirements under A as per the case study.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

It's like they haven't looked at savings which means by showing more income I've lost out and if put 1 job may have been ok well that is rubbish I put both jobs as it failed under old rules first as I didn't show enough income but by adding more to it second time it's caused the same problem


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

It does sound like it.  If so, it seems wrong because you DID select Category A. It would seem extraordinarily petty of them not to count your savings simply for not applying under Category D, but I'm not UKBA. Can you recall if the form allowed multiple categories to be ticked, or did you have to pick just one? When I applied it was under the old rules without these categories. If it allows multiple, they could argue that you didn't specifiy Category D, though this is again a bit petty when you supplied the evidence to show you can support yourselves on income and savings combined.

To be sure of your position, you need to calculate the 12 months of pay based on your partner's lowest monthly pay in the last 6 months from the job he holds currently (if two jobs, then use the main job only). Add to this the calculated equivalent of your savings as stated above (ie deduct £16,000 from the lowest balance in the last 6 months of your combined savings accounts, then divide this by 2.5). If the result is over £18,600, then you don't even need to use your interest from savings because you have a valid application under combined categories A and D and an appeal should hopefully overturn the decision.

I wish you the best of luck with this.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you don't tick the right categories, even if you have enclosed evidence of savings or non-employment income, they won't consider it and fail your application if you don't meet the requirement on Category A alone. The point is it's you who have to make a case for meeting the requirement, and not for them to work out from a jumble of evidence you present. Like self-assessment tax return. The only exception is if you've made a simple mathematical error in adding up etc.

On appeal, ECM may overturn the decision but the fact is they haven't made any mistakes or errors of judgement. They have correctly turned down your application on the evidence of the category or categories you've ticked. I still suggest you appeal, and attach a note explaining your errors in completing the application form and ask for a sympathetic treatment. If you don't succeed, you can reapply.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

What is difference between review and appeal just come away from solicitors confused they said need to appeal straight away and this goes to court I asked them to do it so is reviewed first ... We definitely put category a and d so was hoping they'd see there mistake and consider the savings when looking over it again .... Do you think this would be possible


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ECM review always comes first before any hearing before a judge in the immigrational tribunal.

It's difficult for us to advise exactly what to do as we don't have your application form and documents in front of us. If you are being advised, then I'd stick with that (if they are competent!). Much depends on how you've completed the form, which boxes you ticked and what answers you gave to questions, and supporting documents you provided etc.
Best of luck anyway!


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

How can they review if we don't send any documents off with the forms


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Burt888 said:


> How can they review if we don't send any documents off with the forms


You have to appeal - online if you like and send in any supporting documents you want them to consider to the tribunal in Leicester. They will first be sent to ECM where your visa was processed and where they have kept copies of the documents you have sent plus your application form. They will review them all and decide whether to overturn the decision. If they do, you will be told and in due course you'll be asked to send in your apssport for the visa to be affixed. If their decision stands, then a date will be arranged for a hearing in UK, and unless you have paid extra for oral hearing whcih you are going to attend, it will be held in your absence.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

The solicitor said she had all the information she needed but all documents are in Pakistan so how can she ? Is It me the English person or my Pakistani fiancé who has to make the appeal who Is it best to come from


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

Can you send me the information on how I can do it myself online is there a specific website to do it on


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## LisaJoi (Dec 3, 2012)

SO sorry, that is terrible! I wish there was a place on the application to make it more obvious as to the various sorts of documentation you are including. I am slightly nervous I'll have a simular situation.


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## angel123 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hi Burt888, I am really sorry to get to know what happened to your application. I would like to share my story which I think has the same situation as yours. I applied in Malaysia on 8 Oct 2012, under new rules. I applied for fiancee visa. My fiance has 2 jobs. He has been with those 2 employers for more than 3 years. The first job pays 13,450 p/a on hourly basis, paid in every 4 weeks, another job pays him 2,350 per annum paid in every week. For both jobs, his payslips vary not a steady figures because he works on hourly basis. And for the main job, the Sept payslips only earned 948 gross pay. I did exactly like you did, I picked category A and D, so it was salaried employement and saving. And his saving is ISA as well. We provided 12 months of payslips, 12 months of bank statement. ISA statement (we keep the passbook), 2 P60 for both jobs, And my visa was granted on 19 Dec 2012. Hope this help. Our saving was 35,000


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

So you applied about 1 week before us and it seems the same situation exactly except your partner earn slightly less and has slightly less savings but still enough to cover what was needed I don't know why they didnt like my savings just to make up the missing amount we provided all evidence .... But I don't have a passbook I sent original statement for April and then a stamped bank copy from October as statements only come yearly I also sent the sheet of terms with it as they stated it could be taken out anytime needed and didn't need to give notice I'm still sad today but solicitor should be sending off appeal today but its just costing so much money ..... I'm thinking of just do loads of work til April and then hopefully I can get over £18600 and we can apply again I was only £900 short so it could be possible .... So far I've already spent nearly £11000 on this visa and other things for him like plane tickets back there 2 applications already failed solicitor etc and the annoying thing is if I still had that money I'd be very close to the 62000 needed in savings on well life is horrid sometimes can't wait for this year to end and maybe next one will be better


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## angel123 (Dec 20, 2012)

Burt888 said:


> Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirements as defined by paragraph e ecp 3.3 I am not able to take into account any potential employment available to you in the uk or any offers of financial help from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements your sponsor needs a gross income of Atleast £18600 per annum
> 
> You say in your appendix your sponsor is employed by .... Since ... You also say your sponsor is employed by .... Since .... You say your sponsors gross salary is £17779.97 I am therefore not satisfied that your sponsors income meets the new financial requirements, in respect of salaried employment in the uk all of the following documents (original documents) must be provided
> 
> ...


My visa was refused once when I applied back on July 16, I brought extra documents to the VAC just in case be needed, and because of some argument I had there, accidentally I submitted the 'not necessary documents' I brought over and I kept the P60 and all of the payslips. When I realized what happened it was in the evening and called the VAC the next day. Unfortunately I was not allowed to submit them in, and ended up with a refusal, and the refusal wording just exactly like yours.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

I know there trying to do there job but all our evidence was there and I asked my fiancé to check right boxes were tick and we definitely put A and D so it's annoying they've chosen to ignore the savings by them not doing job right it is wrecking my life it's been 8 months since I've seen my fiancé and every day gets harder and now is another probable 6 months til appeal I'm sure it's cos he's from Pakistan if was American I think they would have let in by now the processing times in Pakistan already take forever so I'm used to the wait ... Our first application refused due to money as well said I don't have enoungh to support him ... We only included my main job in that and savings this time we included both jobs and savings and it should have been ok .... Posts earlier suggested you couldn't use 2 jobs in category A but youved proved you can .... Did you put second job on the part after where you could add extra information .... Even if they used just main job in both our cases the savings would have been enough just with yours they did right and mine they decided to refuse


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## angel123 (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes, I put my fiance's other job in the part 5 in the box provided. I have no clue what happened to your application, but I am malaysian though, the let me in. Maybe another posters have any idea? Oh, and I put an introduction letter that explain my fiance's employment history


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

I wrote a letter aswell explaining about the jobs aswell ... My main job is paid every 4 weeks so 13 times a year so looking at last 6 months isn't a fair reflection as it would have been more per month if paid monthly I explained about both jobs and my savings and even put the maths in the letter to show how I worked out I had enough in savings etc but maybe this made it worse I'm not sure anyway to late now just hope they will over turn there decision at appeal .... Good things come to those who wait


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## angel123 (Dec 20, 2012)

Burt888 said:


> I wrote a letter aswell explaining about the jobs aswell ... My main job is paid every 4 weeks so 13 times a year so looking at last 6 months isn't a fair reflection as it would have been more per month if paid monthly I explained about both jobs and my savings and even put the maths in the letter to show how I worked out I had enough in savings etc but maybe this made it worse I'm not sure anyway to late now just hope they will over turn there decision at appeal .... Good things come to those who wait


We did exactly the same , we worried so much since he earned less in his last payslip due to the 1 week unpaid leave when he visited me. We did the arithmatic tried to guide the ECO our ideas.


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

It looks like you had a nicer ECO than we did then ... Our cases are very similar although the passbook evidence for Isa may have been stronger than the bank statement I sent from April and then the printed and stamped one from the bank that is the only thing I think can be


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## angel123 (Dec 20, 2012)

we have a passbook for the ISA saving, but i did not submit it with our application. What I gave them was the statement my fiance went to the bank for it. only 1 page....he have exactly the same situation. An ECO must do their work properly. I totally blank about the decision for you.


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## angel123 (Dec 20, 2012)

And I have read all of your posts here, and even your first refusal was strange!!!!. It was under old rules and you earned more than enough! You certainly need to appleal this time!!!


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## Burt888 (Jul 8, 2012)

This is what were thinking that's why we think is cos he's Pakistani they been unfair to us he thought if we reapplied then would show we were serious about doing all this but we should have appealed first time under old rules would have saved some time cos nearly 6 months from then but we thought would be quicker to reapply we thought would have been ok with our evidence 
He has other visa refusals for student aswell then applied again and decision changed we thought this could happen again 
I don't think previous visa refusals affecting it as there not mentioned just financial things .... It's not all Pakistanis there refusing I've seen some who get visas 
We're not married its just for fiancé so we have to do it all again with in 6 months and he will have to do by post cos of other refusals so will be along time before he can work etc but Atleast we would be together


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

_I don't think previous visa refusals affecting it as there not mentioned just financial things .... It's not all Pakistanis there refusing I've seen some who get visas _

True as this may be, from your own experience and anecdotal reports here and in other places on the Internet, applicants with previous refusals tend to be subject to deeper scrutiny in all subsequent visa applications.


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