# Being chatted up and wedding invitation!



## ArabianNights

So, I usually buy my bottled water from the shop very close to my building, next door to a little fruit and veg place and there is one 28 year old guy who works there - him and his brother rotate shifts. Now, everyone in my locality know that I am here alone and they know that I am married, but my husband is not here with me and they are quite nice, and due to that, I feel safe-ish around where I live. 

The young guy in the shop over the last few days kept asking me again and again (in different ways!) whether I am married or not, asked my age and attempting general chit chat - fine I don't mind, I buy my water and bread/etc from him. 

Today, however he kept asking more personal questions about my marriage, why I have no kids, why I am not pregnant and whether I wanted to stay married to my husband, and whether husband wanted to stay married to me and, whether we are in touch and many other questions.... until he asked one question, that made me really gobsmacked. Literally, my jaw fell open. It was the question, plus the _way_ he asked the question - so casually, like it was nothing! I was like "Ehhhhhhhhh???!!!" He asked me if I had consummated my marriage (he didn't use that word, he actually used the more direct word beginning with V and I cannot type it, its too embarrassing...."are you a V *****?") I was shell shocked! Then he went on to ask me more questions... well he tried to, until I said "stop, stop, finished!!"

 

Now, I don't not know if its a good idea for me to continue buying my water from there. There is another shop nearby too - but sometimes when I am buying heavy bottles of water, its easier to use that shop as its more closer. I want to avoid the continuation of this and making him think that I am even remotely interested in him. It all started a few days ago, when there was a little boy with him and I had asked him, if this boy was his son. He wasn't, he said he is not married yet. I saw a woman kissing him and I thought he was married, which is why I asked if it was his son - didn't expect it to become more then that!

Any ideas? 

Before all this happened - I was at the fruit and veg store right next door, buying some oranges and the girl who works there is such a sweetheart... we always have a little chit chat. She is getting married day after tomorrow and she invited me! She even gave me a card! So sweet! I am going to meet her mother and I will be going with them to the venue.

What shall I buy her as a gift? I have no idea.... have never been to an Egyptian wedding!

Any advise - I would MUCH appreciate!


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## SHendra

Water is not your friend in Egypt is it? I would stop buying from him right away!!

If your husband was Egyptian that man would not even attempt to have that kind of conversation with you in fear of getting a beaten! Don't go into convo's like this with him or any guy over there Arabian. In Egypt most girls your age yes married but also have had a kid on the way within the first year of Marriage.. hense why he prol confused and asking dumb questions. 

Girls your age unmarried are considered odd.. mainly in the poorer communities. My ex sister is about your age and have a handful of failed engagements under her belt but her doing. She's in a never ending battle with all those around her expecting her to be married by now and now thinking there must be something a miss with her! She's just being choosy.. can't blame a girl for that! But in Egypt they can and due to all this.. these days she suffer depressions due to how people around her have made her feel! Just giving you a further idea of the mentalities of some people over there! To find a girl like you, studying of your age over there is more likely to be from a higher classed richer family.. Which don't tend to mix with the everyday folk.

So with regard to your water either get your doorman to get for you from time to time or go to a further shop, get a business card and just have it delivered if it hard to walk with it. And don't go into personal convos with people in shops etc it's just going to give you these type of situations! It's just an expansion of the do not smile thing so you don't give the wrong impression! 

As far as the wedding thing Egyptians like their sweet stuff.. so maybe some baked goodies/special cookies etc. You don't need to buy some gift like you would in the UK your find their greatful of something as simple as a baked goodies! Like that sweet I forget the name of it's very sticky with nuts in it etc!


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## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> So, I usually buy my bottled water from the shop very close to my building, next door to a little fruit and veg place and there is one 28 year old guy who works there - him and his brother rotate shifts. Now, everyone in my locality know that I am here alone and they know that I am married, but my husband is not here with me and they are quite nice, and due to that, I feel safe-ish around where I live.
> 
> The young guy in the shop over the last few days kept asking me again and again (in different ways!) whether I am married or not, asked my age and attempting general chit chat - fine I don't mind, I buy my water and bread/etc from him.


Is that one of the stores you were having trouble with not so long ago, with why-do-you-shop-at-that-store-over-there? 

If so, told ya.

That is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "general chit chat." Sure, it is where we come from, but here, well, he was on a fishing expedition. 



ArabianNights said:


> Today, however he kept asking more personal questions about my marriage, why I have no kids, why I am not pregnant and whether I wanted to stay married to my husband, and whether husband wanted to stay married to me and, whether we are in touch and many other questions.... until he asked one question, that made me really gobsmacked. Literally, my jaw fell open. It was the question, plus the _way_ he asked the question - so casually, like it was nothing! I was like "Ehhhhhhhhh???!!!" He asked me if I had consummated my marriage (he didn't use that word, he actually used the more direct word beginning with V and I cannot type it, its too embarrassing...."are you a V *****?") I was shell shocked! Then he went on to ask me more questions... well he tried to, until I said "stop, stop, finished!!"


Well, my take on this is, because you were willing to engage in what you sincerely and innocently believed was "general chit chat," in his head, you're lonely and available. He thinks you're loose and, better yet, if you weren't a "V" your husband wouldn't be the wiser.



ArabianNights said:


> Now, I don't not know if its a good idea for me to continue buying my water from there. There is another shop nearby too - but sometimes when I am buying heavy bottles of water, its easier to use that shop as its more closer. I want to avoid the continuation of this and making him think that I am even remotely interested in him. It all started a few days ago, when there was a little boy with him and I had asked him, if this boy was his son. He wasn't, he said he is not married yet. I saw a woman kissing him and I thought he was married, which is why I asked if it was his son - didn't expect it to become more then that!
> 
> Any ideas?


My guess is, unless she was old enough to be his mother, he's already married. In Egypt, the older they get - both men and women - the likelier they are to be married. The social and familial pressure to marry is tremendous. 

He and his brother have a store. They have an income. I knew an expat married to an Egyptian. Her sister-in-law agreed to marry his brother because he was wearing shoes. In her family, only her father had a pair of shoes. The stories you hear about the cash and gold on offer for marriage are true, yes. But that's not true in every case. Sometimes, all it takes is a dream ... to have a pair of shoes. Dollars to donuts he's got a wife, the boy is his. 

Besides, how many public displays of affection have you ever seen here? At most, holding hands, maybe his arm around her shoulder, but never kissing. Never. Even between married couples.

As suggested, have your doorman do your water shopping, or call to have it delivered. 

Don't go back there.



ArabianNights said:


> Before all this happened - I was at the fruit and veg store right next door, buying some oranges and the girl who works there is such a sweetheart... we always have a little chit chat. She is getting married day after tomorrow and she invited me! She even gave me a card! So sweet! I am going to meet her mother and I will be going with them to the venue.
> 
> What shall I buy her as a gift? I have no idea.... have never been to an Egyptian wedding!


Stop into one of the sweet shops and pick up a tray of sweets. 

Egyptian weddings are so much fun. You're going to love it!


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## Lanason

I've been to one big Egyptian wedding - it was amazing. Totally beyond anything in the UK.


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## Widget

ArabianNights said:


> have never been to an Egyptian wedding!


In the nine months I've lived here I've been to three weddings - love em, dancing dancing dancing oh and a bit more dancing.

Oh don't expect to eat btw, in my experience you'll get a piece of wedding cake and a glass of pop and that's it, simples :smile:


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## throknor

i live in sharm right now from usa been here 10 months and i watch boys from egypt prey on the female tourists here . they are trying to get money ive seen 20 yr old in relationship with a 80 yr old female expat. so its a game to them to see what they can get from you.


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## ArabianNights

expatagogo said:


> Is that one of the stores you were having trouble with not so long ago, with why-do-you-shop-at-that-store-over-there?


Yes. But it could have happened from anyone of them 2 - although the other one has an older man it in, though I guess that's not really an assurance 



> That is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "general chit chat." Sure, it is where we come from, but here, well, he was on a fishing expedition.


I have never been involved with any kind of chit chatting with him - he has attempted to with me, though. The only chit chatting I did was when I asked if this boy was his son. If just asking that question turns a boy on, then wow!




> He thinks you're loose


What, because I asked if one boy was his son?


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> Water is not your friend in Egypt is it? I would stop buying from him right away!!
> 
> If your husband was Egyptian that man would not even attempt to have that kind of conversation with you in fear of getting a beaten! Don't go into convo's like this with him or any guy over there Arabian. In Egypt most girls your age yes married but also have had a kid on the way within the first year of Marriage.. hense why he prol confused and asking dumb questions.


Yes, you right - that does make sense. He seemed stumped on why I didn't have a kid, understandable since after first year of marriage there are usually kids. 



> Girls your age unmarried are considered odd.. mainly in the poorer communities. My ex sister is about your age and have a handful of failed engagements under her belt but her doing. She's in a never ending battle with all those around her expecting her to be married by now and now thinking there must be something a miss with her! She's just being choosy.. can't blame a girl for that! But in Egypt they can and due to all this.. these days she suffer depressions due to how people around her have made her feel! Just giving you a further idea of the mentalities of some people over there! To find a girl like you, studying of your age over there is more likely to be from a higher classed richer family.. Which don't tend to mix with the everyday folk.


Yeah even in our culture (my 'origin' culture lol) its quite odd too. Its interesting, though about the 'higher class richer family' who don't mix with the regular folk. I find it hard to imagine what life like that would be like. I understand that these people would have other people to do stuff for them, like go to the store and the like. But how is it possible to live in Egypt, YET not have to deal with people with mentalities like this at all? These people must obviously live in some kind of bubble.



> So with regard to your water either get your doorman to get for you from time to time or go to a further shop, get a business card and just have it delivered if it hard to walk with it. And don't go into personal convos with people in shops etc it's just going to give you these type of situations! It's just an expansion of the do not smile thing so you don't give the wrong impression!


Its quite sad, isn't it? A smile is something that is usually seen as something that cheers people up, acknowledge them or even respect/accept them. Here, its a completely different ball game. You smile, and something else enters their heads! It seems like 'it' is always in their mind! Thanks for the advise, tho SHendra  



> As far as the wedding thing Egyptians like their sweet stuff.. so maybe some baked goodies/special cookies etc. You don't need to buy some gift like you would in the UK your find their greatful of something as simple as a baked goodies! Like that sweet I forget the name of it's very sticky with nuts in it etc!


Is that basboosa or Harissa? Yes, that sounds like a good idea... I have seen platters of stuff like that, might pick up one of those... thanks so much for the advise.


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## MaidenScotland

You live and learn.. when I first came here I smiled at everyone, believed everything I was told only to find out the hard way..

Do not get into a chit chat conversation with any man .. I have lived here years and all I say is Hello. please and thank you to my shop keeper, sometimes I will say it is cold but it is never chit chat. You are a married women who's husband is absent....ripe for the picking.


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## Whitedesert

ArabianNights said:


> So, I usually buy my bottled water from the shop very close to my building, next door to a little fruit and veg place and there is one 28 year old guy who works there - him and his brother rotate shifts. Now, everyone in my locality know that I am here alone and they know that I am married, but my husband is not here with me and they are quite nice, and due to that, I feel safe-ish around where I live.
> 
> The young guy in the shop over the last few days kept asking me again and again (in different ways!) whether I am married or not, asked my age and attempting general chit chat - fine I don't mind, I buy my water and bread/etc from him.
> 
> Today, however he kept asking more personal questions about my marriage, why I have no kids, why I am not pregnant and whether I wanted to stay married to my husband, and whether husband wanted to stay married to me and, whether we are in touch and many other questions.... until he asked one question, that made me really gobsmacked. Literally, my jaw fell open. It was the question, plus the _way_ he asked the question - so casually, like it was nothing! I was like "Ehhhhhhhhh???!!!" He asked me if I had consummated my marriage (he didn't use that word, he actually used the more direct word beginning with V and I cannot type it, its too embarrassing...."are you a V *****?") I was shell shocked! Then he went on to ask me more questions... well he tried to, until I said "stop, stop, finished!!"
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I don't not know if its a good idea for me to continue buying my water from there. There is another shop nearby too - but sometimes when I am buying heavy bottles of water, its easier to use that shop as its more closer. I want to avoid the continuation of this and making him think that I am even remotely interested in him. It all started a few days ago, when there was a little boy with him and I had asked him, if this boy was his son. He wasn't, he said he is not married yet. I saw a woman kissing him and I thought he was married, which is why I asked if it was his son - didn't expect it to become more then that!
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Before all this happened - I was at the fruit and veg store right next door, buying some oranges and the girl who works there is such a sweetheart... we always have a little chit chat. She is getting married day after tomorrow and she invited me! She even gave me a card! So sweet! I am going to meet her mother and I will be going with them to the venue.
> 
> What shall I buy her as a gift? I have no idea.... have never been to an Egyptian wedding!
> 
> Any advise - I would MUCH appreciate!


 O/K, so we go from deliberate open sexual harresment to what to buy for a wedding gift...you are an interesting person, weird...but interesting


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## Lanason

Whitedesert said:


> O/K, so we go from deliberate open sexual harresment to what to buy for a wedding gift...you are an interesting person, weird...but interesting


I guess the wedding gift is not a present to herself ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## ArabianNights

Whitedesert said:


> O/K, so we go from deliberate open sexual harresment to what to buy for a wedding gift...you are an interesting person, weird...but interesting


 Trust me, my whole life is one strange book! And I am happy to admit it. I have been to places and seen things, that one would never imagine


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## marenostrum

ArabianNights said:


> didn't use that word, he actually used the more direct word beginning with V and I cannot type it, its too embarrassing...."are you a V *****?") I was shell shocked! Then he went on to ask me more questions... well he tried to, until I said "stop, stop, finished!!"
> 
> 
> Any ideas?


Many egyptian women are virgin when they get married (well at least in biological terms ) but once they are married its party time  and not just with their husbands........albeit it being a strict society adultery is rife here. As someone else pointed out in the thread, he probably thought you were up for it and as long as you wasn't a virgin then there would be no trouble as your husband would be unaware of what you got up to...


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## ArabianNights

marenostrum said:


> Many egyptian women are virgin when they get married (well at least in biological terms ) but once they are married its party time  and not just with their husbands........albeit it being a strict society adultery is rife here. As someone else pointed out in the thread, he probably thought you were up for it and as long as you wasn't a virgin then there would be no trouble as your husband would be unaware of what you got up to...


Now that just makes us love them even more, doesn't it?


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## crewmeal

An interesting thread with lots of comments based on experience I guess. Would it surprise you to mention that as a guy I too have been chatted up at weddings, not only in Egypt but in other Arab countries as well?

Must be something in the water!


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## Whitedesert

We had a single guy, from the US working for us, and the locals (very friendly) people living around him was quick to want to "arrange" possible marriage arrangements for him, as it is not good for a single guy to live alone. The fact that he had a steady girlfriend back home did not feature in their thinking, to them that was not a problem. He was presented with several options to choose from. When he described the situation to me I could not help laughting, but even better I would have loved to have been there! He did not think it was so funny...wonder why?


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## MaidenScotland

Whitedesert said:


> We had a single guy, from the US working for us, and the locals (very friendly) people living around him was quick to want to "arrange" possible marriage arrangements for him, as it is not good for a single guy to live alone. The fact that he had a steady girlfriend back home did not feature in their thinking, to them that was not a problem. He was presented with several options to choose from. When he described the situation to me I could not help laughting, but even better I would have loved to have been there! He did not think it was so funny...wonder why?




I once was overseeing a building project and my staff decided it would be fun to tell the engineer I was looking for a husband.. he told me he could get someone for me to look at in 15 minutes.. then he asked me if I had money,


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## hhaddad

MaidenScotland said:


> I once was overseeing a building project and my staff decided it would be fun to tell the engineer I was looking for a husband.. he told me he could get someone for me to look at in 15 minutes.. then he asked me if I had money,


As we have said before everyone and his brother(Egyptian) is looking for a foreign wife even several years older than them.They see foreign women as a meal ticket and a cheap way to travel. And the women say mines not like that.


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## Maireadhoey

hhaddad said:


> As we have said before everyone and his brother(Egyptian) is looking for a foreign wife even several years older than them.They see foreign women as a meal ticket and a cheap way to travel. And the women say mines not like that.


Commonly known as MMD syndrome,(My Mohammed's Different)






irisheyesoncairo


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## CatMandoo

Maireadhoey said:


> Commonly known as MMD syndrome,(My Mohammed's Different)


or MAD...My Ahmed's Different


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## expatagogo

hhaddad said:


> As we have said before everyone and his brother(Egyptian) is looking for a foreign wife even several years older than them.They see foreign women as a meal ticket and a cheap way to travel. And the women say mines not like that.


Then, when the vast majority of them finally get what they want, to travel, what do they do?

Well, they do this!


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## hhaddad

*Hypocrites*

They kick up a stink if a muslim girl marries a copt or a muslim boy has an affair with a coptic girl. But a muslim girl who marries a foreigner (mostly christian) NO PROBLEM .Same goes for a muslim guy who marries a foreigner 20 years older and christian again NO PROBLEM.


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## MaidenScotland

hhaddad said:


> They kick up a stink if a muslim girl marries a copt or a muslim boy has an affair with a coptic girl. But a muslim girl who marries a foreigner (mostly christian) NO PROBLEM .Same goes for a muslim guy who marries a foreigner 20 years older and christian again NO PROBLEM.
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> And in most cases they try and convert... relentlessly.
> Of course a girl can only marry a Muslim.. another blow for women's rights


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> Of course a girl can only marry a Muslim.. another blow for women's rights


That bit in itself is not actually cultural, its in Islam, that a girl should not marry a non-Muslim for various reasons.

I agree with hhaddad though, Islam is completely thrown out of the window (or anything else) when there is an opportunity to marry a Christian from overseas!


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> That bit in itself is not actually cultural, its in Islam, that a girl should not marry a non-Muslim for various reasons.
> 
> I agree with hhaddad though, Islam is completely thrown out of the window (or anything else) when there is an opportunity to marry a Christian from overseas!




believe me the drip drip of changing is there right from the start.

Personally I do not believe in anyone changing their religion.. if you have faith and truly believe then how can you change? If you have faith then your faith is important to you If you change are you saying you were wrong in all the years you were faithful to your religion? 
If you change because religion is not important to you.. then why are you changing?


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> believe me the drip drip of changing is there right from the start.
> 
> Personally I do not believe in anyone changing their religion.. if you have faith and truly believe then how can you change? If you have faith then your faith is important to you If you change are you saying you were wrong in all the years you were faithful to your religion?
> If you change because religion is not important to you.. then why are you changing?


100% agree. You cannot force anyone to change religion - especially in Islam. Force is forbidden. If religion is important to you, then you obviously would not go against its teaching, so if the girl you are marrying insists on not converting to Islam, then that would be a deciding factor as to whether the marriage should go ahead or not. 
In regards to changing religion, if you have been another religion for many years before... I don't think that is a question of faith. The faith will always be there, and the same God will be worshiped - of course depending on what religion one is changing to - but if 'converting' to Islam, then it doesn't change a faith in God or belief in the Bible.


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## hhaddad

It's because you've never been faithful and living a lie for appearances sake or for safeties sake in certain countries.


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> 100% agree. You cannot force anyone to change religion - especially in Islam. Force is forbidden. If religion is important to you, then you obviously would not go against its teaching, so if the girl you are marrying insists on not converting to Islam, then that would be a deciding factor as to whether the marriage should go ahead or not.
> In regards to changing religion, if you have been another religion for many years before... I don't think that is a question of faith. The faith will always be there, and the same God will be worshiped - of course depending on what religion one is changing to - but if 'converting' to Islam, then it doesn't change a faith in God or belief in the Bible.




I really do not know or understand why anyone tries to get someone to change.

It's not a competition and no blue peter badges are awarded.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> I really do not know or understand why anyone tries to get someone to change.
> 
> It's not a competition and no blue peter badges are awarded.


I think that if these people actually followed the religion that they are trying to get others to convert to, then I think we'd have less issues to deal with. They are not going to get anything from convert a potential.... its just a 'face' to the society, nothing else. They are not suddenly gonna become devout lol


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> no blue peter badges are awarded.


I really wanted one of those  never got one when I was a kid


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## DeadGuy

ArabianNights said:


> 100% agree. You cannot force anyone to change religion - especially in Islam. Force is forbidden..........


I do NOT wish to get into any sort of debates, specially religious ones, but I'll suggest you to do some research before you make such statements.......


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## ArabianNights

DeadGuy said:


> I do NOT wish to get into any sort of debates, specially religious ones, but I'll suggest you to do some research before you make such statements.......


Errr .... no, no one can force anyone to change religion. Force is forbidden in Islam. Do you want me to start quoting for you? Because I will


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Errr .... no, no one can force anyone to change religion. Force is forbidden in Islam. Do you want me to start quoting for you? Because I will





Do not quote...

We know what it says but that doesn't make it true...
Perhaps you should google a bit about life here,


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## DeadGuy

ArabianNights said:


> Errr .... no, no one can force anyone to change religion. Force is forbidden in Islam. Do you want me to start quoting for you? Because I will


Actually do you want me to start quoting for you? 

PLEASE do not make the mistake of assuming that the fact that I'm not a Muslim means that I did not read Qura'an, cause like I said, I do NOT wish to get into any sort of debates.......:juggle:


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> Do not quote...


Fine, I won't. But I can say that in Islam, it is 100% illegal in to force a woman into marriage, as well as force her to convert to Islam. This is especially the case for Jewish and Christian women - who legally (in Islam and Sharia) do NOT have to change upon marriage.

If Egyptian society can not understand these basic principles of their own religion, then its no wonder there are so many issues!


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## ArabianNights

DeadGuy said:


> Actually do you want me to start quoting for you?
> 
> PLEASE do not make the mistake of assuming that the fact that I'm not a Muslim means that I did not read Qura'an, cause like I said, I do NOT wish to get into any sort of debates.......:juggle:


It doesnt matter which religion you are, and I never knew you were not a Muslim. I do not know what you read, but it certainly wasn't the Quran.


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## DeadGuy

ArabianNights said:


> Fine, I won't. But I can say that in Islam, it is 100% illegal in to force a woman into marriage, as well as force her to convert to Islam. This is especially the case for Jewish and Christian women - who legally (in Islam and Sharia) do NOT have to change upon marriage.
> 
> If Egyptian society can not understand these basic principles of their own religion, then its no wonder there are so many issues!


So now we moved from "anyone" to just "women"........Typical......


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Fine, I won't. But I can say that in Islam, it is 100% illegal in to force a woman into marriage, as well as force her to convert to Islam. This is especially the case for Jewish and Christian women - who legally (in Islam and Sharia) do NOT have to change upon marriage.
> 
> If Egyptian society can not understand these basic principles of their own religion, then its no wonder there are so many issues!





Why do you think just because it is written people actually obey.. this goes for all religions


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> Do not quote...
> 
> We know what it says but that doesn't make it true...
> Perhaps you should google a bit about life here,


Just because people do not follow it, it doesn't mean that what is written is not true... again we are coming back to the same argument as before. If people choose not to follow something, anything, it doesnt mean that what they didnt follow is not there.

I used to learn Spanish at school, I now do not speak Spanish and I forgot it. It doesnt mean Spanish doesnt exist anymore. Its quite a simple logic, I dont know whats so hard to understand. There are so many books out there, both fiction and non-fiction that I havent read. Just because I havent read them, it doesnt mean they do not exist!


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## MaidenScotland

(Watani)ISTANBUL, September 5 (Compass Direct News) – An Egyptian court on Monday (September 3) adjourned the hearing of young Christian twins legally forced to take Islamic education after their estranged father became Muslim.

The attorney for the two young Christian boys forced the adjournment by skipping the hearing, as the outcome of another case involving converts to Islam seeking “re-conversion” could affect the twins’ case.

The twins’ case highlights inequalities non-Muslims face in Egypt, where one’s religion, printed on all official documents, regulates family laws. Custody of children is automatically given to whichever parent is Muslim, according to many interpretations of sharia (Islamic law), enshrined in the nation’s constitution.

Christian twins Mario and Andrew Medhat Ramsis unwillingly “became” Muslim after their father converted to Islam and used his legal right to change the religion on their birth certificates.

In February, the boys’ mother discovered that they had been placed in Islamic education classes at school to reflect their father’s choice, though the Muslim man was no longer living with his Christian family since his conversion and remarriage in 2002.

The twins gained notoriety when they refused to take their Islamic religion exam in May, required in order to pass to the next grade.

“I am Christian,” each boy wrote on a make-up test in July. They turned in the exam with all of the answers left blank.

Egyptian Education Minister Yusri al-Gamal announced on August 25 that he would automatically pass the boys on to the next grade, but the twins’ Christian mother said that an underlying problem remains.

“I was made to understand that Egyptian law grants a mother custody of her children until they are 15, but I lately discovered that this applies only to Muslim mothers,” Kamilia Lutfi said in an August 27 press conference, according to Coptic-owned weekly Watani.

Andrew and Mario Ramsis’ future hinges on whether the court applies civil law, which allows them to remain with their mother, or certain interpretations of Islamic law, which stipulate that children belong to whichever parent is Muslim, their lawyer Naguib Gabriel said.

Gabriel skipped the hearing on Monday (September 3), when the court was expected to rule on the twins’ future, causing the court to adjourn indefinitely. He said he hopes to delay the final hearing until after November 17, when the fate of 12 converts to Islam seeking “re-conversion” back to Christianity is to be decided.

Gabriel said that the November 17 ruling on “re-conversion” would give him a clue about the government’s position towards the Ramsis twins’ case.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> Why do you think just because it is written people actually obey.. this goes for all religions


Where did I say people obey them? I agreed with everything you said! Egyptians DO NOT obey their religion!


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## DeadGuy

ArabianNights said:


> It doesnt matter which religion you are, and I never knew you were not a Muslim. I do not know what you read, but it certainly wasn't the Quran.


It was Qura'an, the Arabic version, I'm not an European that can be easily fooled lady, I KNOW what I read, and I KNOW what it said 

Like I said already, I do not wish to get into any sort of debates, specially religious ones, all I did was asking you to do some research before you make such statements, but instead, you're attacking.........

This thread had it's own topic, I apologize for my previous post.

End of it, PERIOD.

Edit: Did NOT mean to offend any Europeans when I said I'm not an European that can be easily fooled, I only meant being a native Arabic speaker that's all, sorry if anyone was offended


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## ArabianNights

DeadGuy said:


> So now we moved from "anyone" to just "women"........Typical......


For your information, 'women' are mentioned, because of Maiden's:



> Of course a girl can only marry a Muslim.. another blow for women's rights


Is that clearer?


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Just because people do not follow it, it doesn't mean that what is written is not true... again we are coming back to the same argument as before. If people choose not to follow something, anything, it doesnt mean that what they didnt follow is not there.
> 
> I used to learn Spanish at school, I now do not speak Spanish and I forgot it. It doesnt mean Spanish doesnt exist anymore. Its quite a simple logic, I dont know whats so hard to understand. There are so many books out there, both fiction and non-fiction that I havent read. Just because I havent read them, it doesnt mean they do not exist!





it might say that no one is forced.. but that is not true.. force can come in many shapes and forms..it is not an arm up the back process


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Where did I say people obey them? I agreed with everything you said! Egyptians DO NOT obey their religion!




exactly!!! so quoting what is said in the Koran is rather pointless


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## ArabianNights

DeadGuy said:


> I'm not an European that can be easily fooled lady,


Of course all us 'Europeans' are so dumb and are easily fooled. How narrow minded.



> I KNOW what I read, and I KNOW what it said


If so, then we wouldnt be having this conversation now, would we?



> Like I said already, I do not wish to get into any sort of debates, specially religious ones, all I did was asking you to do some research before you make such statements, but instead, you're attacking.........


Telling me to research my own religion (which I have studied a lot - as well as many other religions), to be honest I find quite offensive. I do not even know you, or ever spoken to you, yet you speak like this, with an attitude. I think it is YOU who needs to do the 'research', thanks very much! How rude!


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> exactly!!! so quoting what is said in the Koran is rather pointless


I said to DeadGuy that I would quote, to help him get his facts straight, because he quoted me, saying that it was incorrect that Islam does not allow force.... its in the thread, you can look back at what he quoted me.


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## ArabianNights

DeadGuy said:


> Edit: Did NOT mean to offend any Europeans when I said I'm not an European that can be easily fooled, I only meant being a native Arabic speaker that's all, sorry if anyone was offended




Its alright. We foreigners get offended every day. Its the story of my life in Egypt, at least.


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> it might say that no one is forced.. but that is not true.. force can come in many shapes and forms..it is not an arm up the back process


In reality, yes - but it doesn't make it right (Islamically)


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> I said to DeadGuy that I would quote, to help him get his facts straight, because he quoted me, saying that it was incorrect that Islam does not allow force.... its in the thread, you can look back at what he quoted me.





it says in the bible.. thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet thy neighbours wife.. and on and on... just because it is written doesn't mean people obey and yet still call themselves religious.. exactly the same for all religion.

If you wanted to marry a Christian and he has to change so the marriage can take place is that not force in your eyes?


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## DeadGuy

ArabianNights said:


> Of course all us 'Europeans' are so dumb and are easily fooled. How narrow minded.
> 
> 
> 
> If so, then we wouldnt be having this conversation now, would we?
> 
> 
> 
> Telling me to research my own religion (which I have studied a lot - as well as many other religions), to be honest I find quite offensive. I do not even know you, or ever spoken to you, yet you speak like this, with an attitude. I think it is YOU who needs to do the 'research', thanks very much! How rude!


If you were patient enough, you'd read my edited post and read my explanation AND apology, and I am apologizing again now, was stupid of me to put it the way I did, sorry everyone.

As for questioning my ability to read/understand what I already said that I read and know the meaning of, I will, and again, suggest you to invest your time doing some research instead of spending your time questioning my ability to read and/or understand my own native language, cause just like you think it's offensive to suggest you to research your religion, it is offensive to tell me that I can not read/understand my own native language......

As for my "attitude"..........Well, I'm trying my best to be as polite as possible, if that's not good enough for you, then sorry to say this, but it's not my problem :juggle:


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> In reality, yes - but it doesn't make it right (Islamically)




So in reality you accept it happens..


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## Widget

DeadGuy said:


> Did NOT mean to offend any Europeans when I said I'm not an European that can be easily fooled, I only meant being a native Arabic speaker that's all, sorry if anyone was offended


None taken Deadguy, I knew what you meant.


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## hhaddad

Whats happening she's stopped fighting with her neighbours she's now fighting with D.G. out of order.

As said before a very stange person and if she wants to start an islamic war GO ELSEWHERE we know what goes on and we don't need her bigoted principles.


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## MaidenScotland

btw... I was brought up in a devout family and married outside.. even now my cousins write on my facebook... Old Katie (my grandmother) is turning in her grave at the thought of who you married.. and the truth is it is not about who I married as he is a good man it is the thought of his religion... and that is very sad.


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## MaidenScotland

hhaddad said:


> Whats happening she's stopped fighting with her neighbours she's now fighting with D.G. out of order.
> 
> As said before a very stange person and if she wants to start an islamic war GO ELSEWHERE we know what goes on and we don't need her bigoted principles.[/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> Think it is time to close this thread.


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