# I have a problem



## jojo

My son hurt his leg, I took him to Málaga hospital on Saturday and they x-rayed and drained the swelling and told me to go to Torremolinos hospital where they specialise in injuries - he has (according to the consultant) a very nasty torn ligament in his knee. They've bandaged it up, told us to get crutches, medication and to make an appointment for three weeks time for an MRI scan and a possible operation. I went to the appointment desk, but they refused to do anything without a social security number. We dont have one. My children dont even have NIE numbers, cos at the time they were included on mine, but apparently not anymore???????

I'm on the brink of sending my son back to the UK to get this sorted - any ideas please. I'm feeling quite desperate. What made it worse is that I didnt have an enterpreter with me and the doctor gave me a telling off, cos he wanted to talk about my sons knee in depth - I understood that the hospital in Torremolinos had them, but they didnt

Jo xxxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> My son hurt his leg, I took him to Málaga hospital on Saturday and they x-rayed and drained the swelling and told me to go to Torremolinos hospital where they specialise in injuries - he has (according to the consultant) a very nasty torn ligament in his knee. They've bandaged it up, told us to get crutches, medication and to make an appointment for three weeks time for an MRI scan and a possible operation. I went to the appointment desk, but they refused to do anything without a social security number. We dont have one. My children dont even have NIE numbers, cos at the time they were included on mine, but apparently not anymore???????
> 
> I'm on the brink of sending my son back to the UK to get this sorted - any ideas please. I'm feeling quite desperate. What made it worse is that I didnt have an enterpreter with me and the doctor gave me a telling off, cos he wanted to talk about my sons knee in depth - I understood that the hospital in Torremolinos had them, but they didnt
> 
> Jo xxxx


Oh Jo, I'm really sorry to hear about this, and even sorrier to tell you I can't help! I really have to go to work now and i don't know the answer.
I know you have the residents certificate and Zapatero keeps saying you can get medical attention if you have the padron so...
I would leave your son behind with the telly on and lots of comfort foods and either go back to your health centre and try to find someone there to help you or go to the school at picking up time and ask all those Brits what they do??
And of course wait for the answers here. 
I really don't think you'll have to go back to the UK. Please try not to worry too much. Will try to find something out .
Hugs
XX


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## Buenosdiaspet

That's really rubbish Jo I am so sorry.

I know our kids were issued NIE's when we got our residencias last year, certainly until that point I had no idea they needed their own ones.

I just find it incredible that someone would fob you off like that when you are with a child in obvious pain and misery! How inhumane and wrong. I do hope you manage to find some good local advice, I am sure other parents are the best source of info, please tell us how it works out and hope he's more comfy soon,

BDP x


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Oh Jo, I'm really sorry to hear about this, and even sorrier to tell you I can't help! I really have to go to work now and i don't know the answer.
> I know you have the residents certificate and Zapatero keeps saying you can get medical attention if you have the padron so...
> I would leave your son behind with the telly on and lots of comfort foods and either go back to your health centre and try to find someone there to help you or go to the school at picking up time and ask all those Brits what they do??
> And of course wait for the answers here.
> I really don't think you'll have to go back to the UK. Please try not to worry too much. Will try to find something out .
> Hugs
> XX


I'm sorry too jo, but I don't think you'll get ongoing treatment - your E whatever it is has run out I suppose?

around here they are really cracking down - if you're not in the system (ie paying into it) they won't treat you at the local 'NHS' health centre

most I know are either employed (on contract) paying autonomo or have private cover

I don't know what to suggest...............

maybe the social worker at the health centre might be able to suggest something, but I think basically you're going to end up paying or as you say, sending him back to the UK for treatment - which surely he must be entitled to with his dad living there & paying into that system?


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## nigele2

jojo said:


> My son hurt his leg, I took him to Málaga hospital on Saturday and they x-rayed and drained the swelling and told me to go to Torremolinos hospital where they specialise in injuries - he has (according to the consultant) a very nasty torn ligament in his knee. They've bandaged it up, told us to get crutches, medication and to make an appointment for three weeks time for an MRI scan and a possible operation. I went to the appointment desk, but they refused to do anything without a social security number. We dont have one. My children dont even have NIE numbers, cos at the time they were included on mine, but apparently not anymore???????
> 
> I'm on the brink of sending my son back to the UK to get this sorted - any ideas please. I'm feeling quite desperate. What made it worse is that I didnt have an enterpreter with me and the doctor gave me a telling off, cos he wanted to talk about my sons knee in depth - I understood that the hospital in Torremolinos had them, but they didnt
> 
> Jo xxxx


  count to 10  count to ten again  now

Get him back to the UK, visit A&E, book an appointment with a sports injury specialist (doesn't matter if he wasn't doing a sport), say sorry, and then get his status in Spain sorted.

Hopefully the following you already know:

You should follow the PRICE procedure to manage any type of soft tissue injury to your knee. PRICE stands for the following.

* Protection. Protect your injury from further harm.
* Rest. Rest the injury for the first two to three days, then reintroduce movement so you don't lose too much muscle strength.
* Ice. Apply a cold compress such as ice or a bag of frozen peas wrapped in a towel to help reduce swelling and bruising. Don't apply ice directly to your skin as it can damage your skin.
* Compression. Compress the joint by bandaging it to support the injury and help decrease swelling.
* Elevation. Elevate your knee by resting it above the level of your heart and keep it supported.

There are certain things you should not do in the first three days after your injury to avoid doing further damage to your knee. These can be remembered as HARM.

* Heat. This includes having a hot bath or using a heat pack.
* Alcohol. Drinking alcohol can increase bleeding and swelling in the affected area.
* Running or other forms of exercise.
* Massaging the injured knee. This can cause more swelling or bleeding.

You may need to use crutches or wear a brace to make sure that you keep weight off the affected knee. 

Thanks to BUPA for this freely offered information: http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I'm sorry too jo, but I don't think you'll get ongoing treatment - your E whatever it is has run out I suppose?
> 
> around here they are really cracking down - if you're not in the system (ie paying into it) they won't treat you at the local 'NHS' health centre
> 
> most I know are either employed (on contract) paying autonomo or have private cover
> 
> I don't know what to suggest...............
> 
> maybe the social worker at the health centre might be able to suggest something, but I think basically you're going to end up paying or as you say, sending him back to the UK for treatment - which surely he must be entitled to with his dad living there & paying into that system?



My E whatever should last for two years - which runs out on 4th Feb I guess!!!!! I've also been told that due to the problem with his knee the airlines may not want to take him (summat to do with thrombosis?? - its only 2 hour flight FFS), but I'll persue it. I wish I was fluent in Spanish, yes I'm learning it, but I havent learnt enough to this extent

I think this is my first real crisis here in Spain and I'm not dealing with it very well. I'm usually a a "tough cookie", but as some of you may have realised, where my children are concerned I get very "protective" !!!! So I'm in a state of despair at the mo!

Meanwhile, my son is laying on the sofa being waited on hand and foot and almost enjoying it! hhhmm!

p.s. I have private cover lol!

Jo xxx


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## jojo

nigele2 said:


> count to 10  count to ten again  now
> 
> Get him back to the UK, visit A&E, book an appointment with a sports injury specialist (doesn't matter if he wasn't doing a sport), say sorry, and then get his status in Spain sorted.
> 
> Hopefully the following you already know:
> 
> You should follow the PRICE procedure to manage any type of soft tissue injury to your knee. PRICE stands for the following.
> 
> * Protection. Protect your injury from further harm.
> * Rest. Rest the injury for the first two to three days, then reintroduce movement so you don't lose too much muscle strength.
> * Ice. Apply a cold compress such as ice or a bag of frozen peas wrapped in a towel to help reduce swelling and bruising. Don't apply ice directly to your skin as it can damage your skin.
> * Compression. Compress the joint by bandaging it to support the injury and help decrease swelling.
> * Elevation. Elevate your knee by resting it above the level of your heart and keep it supported.
> 
> There are certain things you should not do in the first three days after your injury to avoid doing further damage to your knee. These can be remembered as HARM.
> 
> * Heat. This includes having a hot bath or using a heat pack.
> * Alcohol. Drinking alcohol can increase bleeding and swelling in the affected area.
> * Running or other forms of exercise.
> * Massaging the injured knee. This can cause more swelling or bleeding.
> 
> You may need to use crutches or wear a brace to make sure that you keep weight off the affected knee.
> 
> Thanks to BUPA for this freely offered information: http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk



Thanks so much for that Nigel

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> My E whatever should last for two years - which runs out on 4th Feb I guess!!!!! I've also been told that due to the problem with his knee the airlines may not want to take him (summat to do with thrombosis?? - its only 2 hour flight FFS), but I'll persue it. I wish I was fluent in Spanish, yes I'm learning it, but I havent learnt enough to this extent
> 
> I think this is my first real crisis here in Spain and I'm not dealing with it very well. I'm usually a a "tough cookie", but as some of you may have realised, where my children are concerned I get very "protective" !!!! So I'm in a state of despair at the mo!
> 
> Meanwhile, my son is laying on the sofa being waited on hand and foot and almost enjoying it! hhhmm!
> 
> p.s. I have private cover lol!
> 
> Jo xxx



well if you've got private cover then he must be errrrrr covered?


get him to a private doctor


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> well if you've got private cover then he must be errrrrr covered?
> 
> 
> get him to a private doctor


Just me!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

Hope you get this sorted soon. Knee injuries can be painful....OLA ran into me a year or so ago, bashed the side of my knee, I thought I'd never walk again, feared I'd cruciate damage. 
Voltarol tablets helped ease the pain but I did some of the things Nigel advises -I read it up on the internet as I knew I'd find it easier to self-medicate than to explain the problem in Czech.
That may have been a mistake tho' as I still get twinges and quite severe pain if my knee isn't flexed for a time.
On a slightly different but relevant tack ....I went to collect my Spanish equivalent of the EHIC yesterday and was told that after April you have to get an EHIC from the country you've been paying into the health system of, in my case the UK. Does anyone else know of this?
I've kept my UK (and Czech) EHICs so I'm hoping that the UK one will remain valid if I get run over by a bus when next in London.


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## nigele2

jojo said:


> Thanks so much for that Nigel
> 
> Jo xxx


Don't know how old your son is but my sincere apologies to him if the withdrawal of alcohol extends his pain and suffering 

Sorry for fuming earlier, you don't need that at the mo. Hope he recovers well.


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## Hombre

Can't pretend to offer any help Jo, but would like to express my sympathy and hope your lad improves soon.


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## gus-lopez

xabiachica said:


> I'm sorry too jo, but I don't think you'll get ongoing treatment - your E whatever it is has run out I suppose?
> 
> around here they are really cracking down - if you're not in the system (ie paying into it) they won't treat you at the local 'NHS' health centre
> 
> most I know are either employed (on contract) paying autonomo or have private cover
> 
> I don't know what to suggest...............
> 
> maybe the social worker at the health centre might be able to suggest something, but I think basically you're going to end up paying or as you say, sending him back to the UK for treatment - which surely he must be entitled to with his dad living there & paying into that system?



To be honest,here where I live you cannot get a child into school without a Spanish medical card.
The fact that your husband works in the UK means nothing. The UK healthcare system is residency based. I have a 20 page document from the NHS about who is and who is not entitled to free healthcare. Right across the top is the following, "Payment of NI contributions in no way entitles you to free healthcare, only residency in the UK".
This was done by government to cut off those who left the country/retired under retiring age. Rather hypocritical that when you do want to leave and ask for reciprocal cover for up to 2 yrs. it's based on your NI contributions.

You might also have a problem in the UK if you mention he lives abroad as they might insist he's in the country for 6 mths before he can have treatment. Sorry I'm not trying to be negative, merely pointing out the pitfalls. I think you would be better trying at this end with an interpreter to sort something out. 
For the future what you should do is your husband should make a tax declaration here in Spain and under the reciprocal agreement you would then be entitled to healthcards ( as his tax and NI payments in the UK would count ), but a gestoria would give you more accurate advice.


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## gus-lopez

mrypg9 said:


> Hope you get this sorted soon. Knee injuries can be painful....OLA ran into me a year or so ago, bashed the side of my knee, I thought I'd never walk again, feared I'd cruciate damage.
> Voltarol tablets helped ease the pain but I did some of the things Nigel advises -I read it up on the internet as I knew I'd find it easier to self-medicate than to explain the problem in Czech.
> That may have been a mistake tho' as I still get twinges and quite severe pain if my knee isn't flexed for a time.
> On a slightly different but relevant tack ....I went to collect my Spanish equivalent of the EHIC yesterday and was told that after April you have to get an EHIC from the country you've been paying into the health system of, in my case the UK. Does anyone else know of this?
> I've kept my UK (and Czech) EHICs so I'm hoping that the UK one will remain valid if I get run over by a bus when next in London.




Yes, that is right. As from April it becomes the reponsibility of the country into which you paid for your healthcare but as the UK is a residency based system, ( see my last post ) will they issue one??
you paid


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## NorthernLass

Buenosdiaspet said:


> That's really rubbish Jo I am so sorry.
> 
> I know our kids were issued NIE's when we got our residencias last year, certainly until that point I had no idea they needed their own ones.
> 
> I just find it incredible that someone would fob you off like that when you are with a child in obvious pain and misery! How inhumane and wrong. I do hope you manage to find some good local advice, I am sure other parents are the best source of info, please tell us how it works out and hope he's more comfy soon,
> 
> BDP x


Whenever I have been to the hospital, I am always asked to show my card - even for follow up treatment. 

No advice really but I understand it is very upsetting. When I have been with my son, I am usually in tears and because I can't speak Spanish very well, I have to call around and find someone to help!! 

I think you can only go down the private route and pay for his treatment. Yikkees


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## lynn

Jo,

If your OH is still paying his NI stamp in the UK, your may be able to extend your E106 entitlement to reciprocal healthcare for him and dependants. That would mean calling this lot:

Overseas Healthcare Team (Newcastle)
Room TC001
Tyneview Park
Whitley Road
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE98 1BA

Tel: 0191 218 1999 (Monday to Friday 8am-5pm)

Once you have the E106, and you have sorted NIE's out for the children,and got them on the padron you take it all to the Instituto Nacional de la Seguridad office who wil stamp it to say you can then register with the doctor. Of course, this isn't going to happen very quickly, but would be worth pursuing just to make sure the kids are covered for a bit longer. 

One other thought. Did the accident happen at school, and therefore is it covered under their private medical insurance that you will have paid annually?

I can imagine that you are feeling very vunerable. Events like this pull the rug from under you, but I'm sure there will be a way to get through this. Keep strong and hope he feels better soon
L
x


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## Caz.I

jojo said:


> My E whatever should last for two years - which runs out on 4th Feb I guess!!!!! I've also been told that due to the problem with his knee the airlines may not want to take him (summat to do with thrombosis?? - its only 2 hour flight FFS), but I'll persue it. I wish I was fluent in Spanish, yes I'm learning it, but I havent learnt enough to this extent
> 
> I think this is my first real crisis here in Spain and I'm not dealing with it very well. I'm usually a a "tough cookie", but as some of you may have realised, where my children are concerned I get very "protective" !!!! So I'm in a state of despair at the mo!
> 
> Meanwhile, my son is laying on the sofa being waited on hand and foot and almost enjoying it! hhhmm!
> 
> p.s. I have private cover lol!
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi Jo, sorry to hear about your son.
I am not 100% sure but I think if your son is under 18 and you have the padron you should be able to get access to healthcare, in theory anyway - at various health centres they may try to refuse you depending who you speak to but, if you show your European card or Enumber whatever at your local health centre (some of which have interpreters) and explain its for your son and show your empadronamiento, that might help. Failing that, go down to the nearest social security office, taking all known identity documents as well as the above and show your European card and your NIE and ask for health card for your son. Then go to your local health centre with it. I just read something about under 18s having same rights as Spanish citizens to health care here, so in theory I think he should get it.

Re. the UK I was also told by a British friend in Madrid whos only been there a year or less, that she couldnt get treatment on the NHS anymore as she had been out of the country for six months.
Good luck, and hope he gets better soon.
Caz.I


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> My son hurt his leg, I took him to Málaga hospital on Saturday and they x-rayed and drained the swelling and told me to go to Torremolinos hospital where they specialise in injuries - he has (according to the consultant) a very nasty torn ligament in his knee. They've bandaged it up, told us to get crutches, medication and to make an appointment for three weeks time for an MRI scan and a possible operation. I went to the appointment desk, but they refused to do anything without a social security number. We dont have one. My children dont even have NIE numbers, cos at the time they were included on mine, but apparently not anymore???????
> 
> I'm on the brink of sending my son back to the UK to get this sorted - any ideas please. I'm feeling quite desperate. What made it worse is that I didnt have an enterpreter with me and the doctor gave me a telling off, cos he wanted to talk about my sons knee in depth - I understood that the hospital in Torremolinos had them, but they didnt
> 
> Jo xxxx


Hi Jo,
This article, which is very easy to read, does seem to say that you're not covered. But it does talk about a tax that you can pay to make sure you're covered in the future, and who knows, perhaps from day one...
Spanish Attack on British Expatriate Patients Brings Home Message ? Get Health Insurance!


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## Pesky Wesky

More info from this page

Healthcare in Spain

*How to register your E121 or E106*


In order to register your E121 or E106 you will need to obtain the paperwork set out below in the following order:

A Certificate of Residence (Certificado de Residencia) – available from the local police station. 
A Certificate as a Local Resident (Certificado de Empadronamiento) – available from the local town hall (at the Padrón Office). 
Check very carefully what documents you need to fill in, and the process in which they need to be completed. Also, remember that you have to make your own photocopies before you arrive. If you forget something, it’s unlikely you will be allowed to complete the application process and you may have to come back another time.
Having obtained your certificates you must take them, along with both copies of your E106 or E121, to the local 'Instituto Nacional de la Seguridad' office. They will retain one copy and return the other copy signed and stamped to you. This copy allows you to access the Spanish healthcare system.
*How to register wit a GP*
If you are an E121 holder, you will have to register with a doctor in Spain. As an E106 holder, it is not necessary to register with a doctor

Which is more or less what Caz was saying I think

PS. This is not your first crisis in Spain. What about Ruby and school?? And you got over that one didn't you??


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## jojo

I went to Alhaurin de la Torre health centre this evening and the woman there is a saint! Bless her, she filled in masses of forms for me, I've no idea what they were. She then phoned Torremolinos Hospital and complained about the O** B** who sent me away and made me an appointment for my son to have an MRI scan in three weeks time.

I needed my sons euro card (NHS card), his passport and current address! Thats all they needed. The number is for residents and their families who work here. I guess I'm slightly different cos my OH works in the UK and thats where he pays taxes etc, but whatever forms this lovely lady filled in, it did the trick!!!!!!!! I'm so relieved, its even stopped raining !!

Thanks everyone for your advise, its actually lovely to have people to "rant" to, cos I felt very alone and helpless today - I so wish I was fluent !!!!!! 

Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> I went to Alhaurin de la Torre health centre this evening and the woman there is a saint! Bless her, she filled in masses of forms for me, I've no idea what they were. She then phoned Torremolinos Hospital and complained about the O** B** who sent me away and made me an appointment for my son to have an MRI scan in three weeks time.
> 
> I needed my sons euro card (NHS card), his passport and current address! Thats all they needed. The number is for residents and their families who work here. I guess I'm slightly different cos my OH works in the UK and thats where he pays taxes etc, but whatever forms this lovely lady filled in, it did the trick!!!!!!!! I'm so relieved, its even stopped raining !!
> 
> Thanks everyone for your advise, its actually lovely to have people to "rant" to, cos I felt very alone and helpless today - I so wish I was fluent !!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


What a relief! Well done for sorting it all out (with the help of the lady at the health centre of course). When you say you had to show your son's NHS card, do you mean the plastic one that replaced the old E111 form? 
Pat yourself on the back and pour yourself a large glass of vino. You deserve it!


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## jojo

lynn said:


> What a relief! Well done for sorting it all out (with the help of the lady at the health centre of course). When you say you had to show your son's NHS card, do you mean the plastic one that replaced the old E111 form?
> Pat yourself on the back and pour yourself a large glass of vino. You deserve it!


Yes the little blue plastic credit card sized thing. I've carted that and his passport around with us everywhere, the woman at Torremolinos was just being a b*****. Obviously didnt like us guiris!! She had a dig at me for not bringing an enterpreter.

I've gone one better than a glass of vino - I've had a whole packet of chocolate biscuits - that'll give me a reaction cos I'm a coeliac!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I went to Alhaurin de la Torre health centre this evening and the woman there is a saint! Bless her, she filled in masses of forms for me, I've no idea what they were. She then phoned Torremolinos Hospital and complained about the O** B** who sent me away and made me an appointment for my son to have an MRI scan in three weeks time.
> 
> I needed my sons euro card (NHS card), his passport and current address! Thats all they needed. The number is for residents and their families who work here. I guess I'm slightly different cos my OH works in the UK and thats where he pays taxes etc, but whatever forms this lovely lady filled in, it did the trick!!!!!!!! I'm so relieved, its even stopped raining !!
> 
> Thanks everyone for your advise, its actually lovely to have people to "rant" to, cos I felt very alone and helpless today - I so wish I was fluent !!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well done Jo! Knew you could do it!
It would be an idea to check up on those forms for your own good, and for the forum of course!!


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## Stravinsky

Jo, surely you are entitled to ongoing helath in Spain, due to your husband working and paying stamp in the UK. You claim child benefit dont you?


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## lynn

Stravinsky said:


> Jo, surely you are entitled to ongoing helath in Spain, due to your husband working and paying stamp in the UK. You claim child benefit dont you?


My understanding is that the entitlement to ongoing healthcare through the Spanish state system is not connected to paying NI in the UK. The NHS is a residency based system - ie if you live in the UK, you can access it, whereas the spanish system is contribution based, and as the NI is paid in the UK, it is only transferrable with a E106 certificate, which is usually limited to up to two and a half years. Those that are extended I believe are people who are posted to work abroad but still pay NI in the UK. 

The access to healthcare to all those under the age of 18 is, I believe, assessed on need by a social worker for those who have no other means of paying for treatment.


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## jojo

lynn said:


> My understanding is that the entitlement to ongoing healthcare through the Spanish state system is not connected to paying NI in the UK. The NHS is a residency based system - ie if you live in the UK, you can access it, whereas the spanish system is contribution based, and as the NI is paid in the UK, it is only transferrable with a E106 certificate, which is usually limited to up to two and a half years. Those that are extended I believe are people who are posted to work abroad but still pay NI in the UK.
> 
> The access to healthcare to all those under the age of 18 is, I believe, assessed on need by a social worker for those who have no other means of paying for treatment.



In the last 24 hours I've read and heard so many different views on this. The one I like best (well I would woudnt I) is that Spain and the UK have a riciprical arrangement and therefore Spain should claim it back from the UK?????. However, not once, while at either the Málaga or Torremolinos hospitals did anyone ask how long we'd been in Spain - we could have been holiday makers that had just arrived for two weeks for all they knew!? Only one of them asked for our address in Spain - and didnt ask for a UK address or anything else

The child benefit thing is pretty straight forward (I think)??? Because my OH works and his pays taxes, NI in the UK, HE can claim child allowance for the children, but I cant - cos I live here - with the kids!???? The lovely man at DWPspain told me that!?


Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> In the last 24 hours I've read and heard so many different views on this. The one I like best (well I would woudnt I) is that Spain and the UK have a riciprical arrangement and therefore Spain should claim it back from the UK?????. However, not once, while at either the Málaga or Torremolinos hospitals did anyone ask how long we'd been in Spain - we could have been holiday makers that had just arrived for two weeks for all they knew!? Only one of them asked for our address in Spain - and didnt ask for a UK address or anything else
> 
> The child benefit thing is pretty straight forward (I think)??? Because my OH works and his pays taxes, NI in the UK, HE can claim child allowance for the children, but I cant - cos I live here - with the kids!???? The lovely man at DWPspain told me that!?
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


It's a minefield isn't it! Bottom line is that this time, you have gained access to the healthcare that your son needs which is really, really good news. But it doesn't leave you with any confidence that it'll be the same the next time does it? (by 'you' I do mean 'us' if you see what I mean). It looks like you just have to hope that you deal with a sympathetic member of staff when you go for treatment.


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## xabiaxica

lynn said:


> My understanding is that the entitlement to ongoing healthcare through the Spanish state system is not connected to paying NI in the UK. The NHS is a residency based system - ie if you live in the UK, you can access it, whereas the spanish system is contribution based, and as the NI is paid in the UK, it is only transferrable with a E106 certificate, which is usually limited to up to two and a half years. Those that are extended I believe are people who are posted to work abroad but still pay NI in the UK.
> 
> The access to healthcare to all those under the age of 18 is, I believe, assessed on need by a social worker for those who have no other means of paying for treatment.


which is how I too understood it


which is why I suggested a chat with the social worker_ might_ help


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## jojo

lynn said:


> My understanding is that the entitlement to ongoing healthcare through the Spanish state system is not connected to paying NI in the UK. The NHS is a residency based system - ie if you live in the UK, you can access it, whereas the spanish system is contribution based, and as the NI is paid in the UK, it is only transferrable with a E106 certificate, which is usually limited to up to two and a half years. Those that are extended I believe are people who are posted to work abroad but still pay NI in the UK.
> 
> The access to healthcare to all those under the age of 18 is, I believe, assessed on need by a social worker for those who have no other means of paying for treatment.


However, we've been here for just under two years (a week under!) So in effect and as we do actually still have a UK address we should still be entitled to the E106 tranfer??!? Which of course makes us temporary residents in Spain???

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> However, we've been here for just under two years (a week under!) So in effect and as we do actually still have a UK address we should still be entitled to the E106 tranfer??!? Which of course makes us temporary residents in Spain???
> 
> Jo xxx


it's complicated isn't it?


you are still entitled to you E106 - I assume - but that is meant to be only for emergency treatment, isn't it?

whether an op is classed as emergency I have no idea - I suspect that it depends on who you see on the day, and how well clued up they are on the rules!!

I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't have got any ongoing treatment here in this area as I know quite a few people who have been refused even an _appointment_ at the medical centre without a spanish social security number, once the E 106 has run out


----------



## Stravinsky

Requires a bit of research then, I'll have a furtle about


----------



## Pesky Wesky

lynn said:


> My understanding is that the entitlement to ongoing healthcare through the Spanish state system is not connected to paying NI in the UK. The NHS is a residency based system - ie if you live in the UK, you can access it, whereas the spanish system is contribution based, and as the NI is paid in the UK, it is only transferrable with a E106 certificate, which is usually limited to up to two and a half years. Those that are extended I believe are people who are posted to work abroad but still pay NI in the UK.
> 
> The access to healthcare to all those under the age of 18 is, I believe, assessed on need by a social worker for those who have no other means of paying for treatment.


This is covered in the link I gave previously.
Now, whether the Spanish medical staff that you deal with know this or not, or whether it operates in your area or not is another matter.


----------



## Stravinsky

lynn said:


> My understanding is that the entitlement to ongoing healthcare through the Spanish state system is not connected to paying NI in the UK. The NHS is a residency based system - ie if you live in the UK, you can access it, whereas the spanish system is contribution based, and as the NI is paid in the UK, it is only transferrable with a E106 certificate, which is usually limited to up to two and a half years. Those that are extended I believe are people who are posted to work abroad but still pay NI in the UK.
> 
> The access to healthcare to all those under the age of 18 is, I believe, assessed on need by a social worker for those who have no other means of paying for treatment.



Yep, I'm completely aware of how the health systems work, but I had it in mind that I had read somewhere that this situation wasn treated differently, I'll check


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This is the reply I got when I sent an email to Madrid consular enquiries asking about the healthcare for illegal immigrants. I have also posted the same stuff on the thread about illegal immigrants in Vic. It took 7 days including the weekend. 
Perhaps you should just write directly to them explaining your situation more fully, Jo.

Thank you for your email regarding healthcare.

I appreciate that the recent debate about illegal immigrants and the padrón may have muddied the waters rather around how to access to free healthcare in Spain. Being "empadronado" is one of the basic requirements to receive free state healthcare in Spain (except in the case of visitors with an EHIC). This applies to Spanish Nationals, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants.

However, this is only one of the requirements; the other main requirement being that you pay social security contributions, that you are in receipt of a benefit or that you are dependant on somebody in the aforementioned groups. Nevertheless, if somebody has an income less than the minimum wage they may qualify for free means-tested healthcare: Seguridad Social: Normativa. Some illegal immigrants may qualify to access healthcare through this means if they have no work or other income and therefore quite often confusion is created about what the real requirements are for accessing free state healthcare in Spain. It is also worth mentioning that nobody should be refused free emergency treatment at point of access in Spain.

I hope that I have been able to clear up any doubts that you had. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any more questions.

Best Regards,

*Martin Fitches*


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> This is the reply I got when I sent an email to Madrid consular enquiries asking about the healthcare for illegal immigrants. I have also posted the same stuff on the thread about illegal immigrants in Vic. It took 7 days including the weekend.
> Perhaps you should just write directly to them explaining your situation more fully, Jo.
> 
> Thank you for your email regarding healthcare.
> 
> I appreciate that the recent debate about illegal immigrants and the padrón may have muddied the waters rather around how to access to free healthcare in Spain. Being "empadronado" is one of the basic requirements to receive free state healthcare in Spain (except in the case of visitors with an EHIC). This applies to Spanish Nationals, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants.
> 
> However, this is only one of the requirements; the other main requirement being that you pay social security contributions, that you are in receipt of a benefit or that you are dependant on somebody in the aforementioned groups. Nevertheless, if somebody has an income less than the minimum wage they may qualify for free means-tested healthcare: Seguridad Social: Normativa. Some illegal immigrants may qualify to access healthcare through this means if they have no work or other income and therefore quite often confusion is created about what the real requirements are for accessing free state healthcare in Spain. It is also worth mentioning that nobody should be refused free emergency treatment at point of access in Spain.
> 
> I hope that I have been able to clear up any doubts that you had. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any more questions.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> *Martin Fitches*


so you absolutely do have to be paying into the system unless on a very low income - except for emergency treatment


I imagine an income from another country - or beingfinancially supported by someone with an income from another country doesn't count - or does it?

I suppose it _might_ be possible (if it does count) to ensure that the income was low enough to count as 'low income' - another potential can of worms


----------



## NorthernLass

jojo said:


> I went to Alhaurin de la Torre health centre this evening and the woman there is a saint! Bless her, she filled in masses of forms for me, I've no idea what they were. She then phoned Torremolinos Hospital and complained about the O** B** who sent me away and made me an appointment for my son to have an MRI scan in three weeks time.
> 
> I needed my sons euro card (NHS card), his passport and current address! Thats all they needed. The number is for residents and their families who work here. I guess I'm slightly different cos my OH works in the UK and thats where he pays taxes etc, but whatever forms this lovely lady filled in, it did the trick!!!!!!!! I'm so relieved, its even stopped raining !!
> 
> Thanks everyone for your advise, its actually lovely to have people to "rant" to, cos I felt very alone and helpless today - I so wish I was fluent !!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


You may find that when you go to the hospital, they will want to see a healthcare card. And if you don't have one, you may be sent away again....

Hope not,,but you really need to sort something out properly...

I had a problem with my eye last year and went to my local doctor at the medical centre...the doctor made me an appointment with the hospital. When I got there I had to show my card before I was given a waiting number...then every subsequent appointment, they want your card again. 

Wouldn't want you to go through all that again...


----------



## lynn

The E106 certificate gives FULL access to the Spanish state system for as long as it is issued, and is not just for emergency cover. However, the form sent to you from the UK has to be taken to the INSS office with your residencia (including children), padron, marriage certificate (if you want to be included as a dependant) and birth certificates for children, as well as passports. They stamp the form, give one copy back, and this is then shown when accessing the healthcare system. It means you don't get a social security number as it is only temporary. Ours is for one year, and we the reapply before it expires, and should get another year. As I say, it states that they can be for up to two and a half years, so Jo might be able to get another 6 months cover.


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## mrypg9

I've got a SS number, am registered at our local Health Centre but don't have a card apart from a Spanish-issue EHIC which as I said earlier is valid only until April. Should I have some other card?
Luckily I kept my old UK issued EHIC although told by the DHSS that it was no longer valid so presumably I'll be able to use that if I get run over by a bus when I go to the UK in April?


----------



## lynn

If you have a ss number in Spain and full access to the health service, then you should be able to get a EIHC card from the INSS office to cover you for emergency care whilst in the UK.


----------



## MRVT

As your hubby is still working in the UK, you should be entiltled to have Spanish SIP cards connected to his National insurance. You need to speak to DWP inNewcastle as I cannot remember the number of the form that you need.


----------



## Hombre

lynn said:


> If you have a ss number in Spain and full access to the health service, then you should be able to get a EIHC card from the INSS office to cover you for emergency care whilst in the UK.


Everything Lynn says is right. EHIC is for EMERGENCY treatment only ,irrespective of which country it is issued in. If you have residencia here in Spain then, if you visit the UK, or any country in the EU for that matter, you will need a Spanish issued EHIC card to cover you. A UK issued EHIC only entitles you to EMERGENCY treatment in another EU member state, providing you are a resident of the UK. It's all about where you are resident...(officially).


----------



## mrypg9

lynn said:


> If you have a ss number in Spain and full access to the health service, then you should be able to get a EIHC card from the INSS office to cover you for emergency care whilst in the UK.


I already have an EHIC card from the INSS, as I said in my post. But there is apparently new legislation effective from April of this year which will revoke the validity of such Spanish-issued cards to non-Spanish EU nationals. This process is already under way in France, it seems. 
So I'm assuming that UK nationals who require emergency health care in the UK or a third country will, after April, require an EHIC card from the DHSS in the UK.


----------



## mrypg9

Hombre said:


> Everything Lynn says is right. EHIC is for EMERGENCY treatment only ,irrespective of which country it is issued in. If you have residencia here in Spain then, if you visit the UK, or any country in the EU for that matter, you will need a Spanish issued EHIC card to cover you. A UK issued EHIC only entitles you to EMERGENCY treatment in another EU member state, providing you are a resident of the UK. It's all about where you are resident...(officially).



I know all about EHICs and their use, I have three issued in three EU countries!
If you read my post you will see that I was pointing out the the regulations have changed. As from April your INSS issued EHIC will no longer cover you in the UK or a third EU country.
I was given a document explaining this in Spanish, English and German at the INSS on Monday when I received my Spanish issued EHIC which expires in April when the new regulations come into force.


----------



## lynn

mrypg9 said:


> I know all about EHICs and their use, I have three issued in three EU countries!
> If you read my post you will see that I was pointing out the the regulations have changed. As from April your INSS issued EHIC will no longer cover you in the UK or a third EU country.
> I was given a document explaining this in Spanish, English and German at the INSS on Monday when I received my Spanish issued EHIC which expires in April when the new regulations come into force.


OOhh yes,Mrypg, I do apologise, as I have found the relevant new legislation that you refer to. It takes effect from 1st May, so your trip in April is safe, but the UK is taking over the issuing of these from 1st May, so a new UK EIHC will be issued to all those it affects. This seems to talk about UK pensioners resident in Spain. It doesn't mention what happens to those paying into the Spanish social security system so I don't know what their position is??
Here is the link to the info I found:
Access to healthcare: UK European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)

It sounds like it might be wise having travel insurance to ensure cover in future??


----------



## mrypg9

lynn said:


> OOhh yes,Mrypg, I do apologise, as I have found the relevant new legislation that you refer to. It takes effect from 1st May, so your trip in April is safe, but the UK is taking over the issuing of these from 1st May, so a new UK EIHC will be issued to all those it affects. This seems to talk about UK pensioners resident in Spain. It doesn't mention what happens to those paying into the Spanish social security system so I don't know what their position is??
> Here is the link to the info I found:
> Access to healthcare: UK European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)
> 
> It sounds like it might be wise having travel insurance to ensure cover in future??


No, I don't think that will be necessary. I can't imagine a British citizen being left to die in the UK. EU Regulations still (as far as I know) entitle an EU national to emergency treatment in another EU state. In any case, I've still got my UK EHIC from many years ago - but I wonder if it's still valid as I've been though two other EU states' health-care schemes. 
And if not, how to apply for a new one??


----------



## Stravinsky

Jo, one of the other senior mods on another forum remembers something about spanish resident spouses being qualified for spanish health care when their husbands are working in the Uk as well, so I have approached DWP for a definitive answer


----------



## lynn

Just as an aside. One of my children woke up this morning with vomiting and stomach pains. We have all suffered this week with this, so I wasn't too alarmed, but as he has exams at school this week, he needed a doctors certificate to prove he wasn't skiving, otherwise he gets U's on his report for the exams he misses! 

I took him down to the health centre with our E106 and registration form for the health centre and was seen pretty quickly without having to show any other documentation. I have to say, it went very smoothly, and I'm now relieved that I have proved to myself that the E106 does access the state health system!


----------



## Stravinsky

Jo, as I thought, it appears that as your husband works in the UK paying stamp and tax there, then you are eligible for full healthcare in Spain under reciprocal arrangements (dependent). I will make 100% sure, and attempt to discover the application process


----------



## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> Jo, as I thought, it appears that as your husband works in the UK paying stamp and tax there, then you are eligible for full healthcare in Spain under reciprocal arrangements (dependent). I will make 100% sure, and attempt to discover the application process



TBH, I thought this to be the case too, but I never like to say anything is definate in España!!!!!!! 

Anyway an update on my sons appointments. We now have two appointments, one for the MRI and a follow up. What I have found amazing is that while sorting out various things at the hospital today, I suddenly realised that I was speaking spanish and understanding the answers!!! Ok, I was probably way off with my grammar and verb endings etc, but I was conversing and saying what I wanted to. It all seemed to just come to me

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> TBH, I thought this to be the case too, but I never like to say anything is definate in España!!!!!!!
> 
> Anyway an update on my sons appointments. We now have two appointments, one for the MRI and a follow up. What I have found amazing is that while sorting out various things at the hospital today, I suddenly realised that I was speaking spanish and understanding the answers!!! Ok, I was probably way off with my grammar and verb endings etc, but I was conversing and saying what I wanted to. It all seemed to just come to me
> 
> Jo xxx


that's what I always tell my students - you'll be amazed what you can do when you _have_ to:clap2:


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> that's what I always tell my students - you'll be amazed what you can do when you _have_ to:clap2:


I'm feeling quite "spanish" now!!! LOL! Really, it just happened without me thinking about it, I was saying several sentences and they understood me!!!!! :clap2::clap2:

Jo xxxx


----------



## mrypg9

jojo said:


> TBHWhat I have found amazing is that while sorting out various things at the hospital today, I suddenly realised that I was speaking spanish and understanding the answers!!! Ok, I was probably way off with my grammar and verb endings etc, but I was conversing and saying what I wanted to. It all seemed to just come to me
> 
> Jo xxx


So what that you may have been ungrammatical!! A hell of a lot of British people speak their native language ungrammatically -I'd say well over 50% of us -but we understand each other. The whole point of language -any language -is to communicate wishes and feelings which you have found you are able to do.
Far too many people get hung up over speaking 'correctly' when learning a language. My Czech students had that problem -they were unwilling to use the English they had top-level paper qualifications in for fear of being ungrammatical.
My Czech and no doubt my Spanish are ungrammatical but I get what I want in most situations. I'll bet that a lot of Spaniards speak their native tongue 'incorrectly'.
Communicating successfully gives confidence gives fluency. You can always brush up your grammar once you can speak easily.
Build the furniture first, then polish it


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I'm feeling quite "spanish" now!!! LOL! Really, it just happened without me thinking about it, I was saying several sentences and they understood me!!!!! :clap2::clap2:
> 
> Jo xxxx


:clap2:

sorry about his leg & all that - but a lot of good info has come out of this thread

I for one had no idea about this reciprocal agreement between the UK & here - info that I think is going to be useful to us in the near future

& I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't know about it!


and you discovered that you _can_ speak Spanish!!


----------



## Buenosdiaspet

Nice one Jo both for resolving the appointments issue and for finding yourself doing it in Spanish!!!

I think we none of us know how much we really know, until we're forced to find out!

BDP


----------



## Stravinsky

xabiachica said:


> :clap2:
> 
> sorry about his leg & all that - but a lot of good info has come out of this thread
> 
> I for one had no idea about this reciprocal agreement between the UK & here - info that I think is going to be useful to us in the near future
> 
> & I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't know about it!
> 
> 
> and you discovered that you _can_ speak Spanish!!


You should have asked someone who knows about these things


----------



## topcat83

Buenosdiaspet said:


> I think we none of us know how much we really know, until we're forced to find out!


LOL! I found out how much French I remembered from my schooldays when i had a confrontation with a really obnoxious French restaurant manager who had 'forgotten how to speak English'!!


----------



## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> You should have asked someone who knows about these things


well I didn't know you knew


----------



## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> TBH, I thought this to be the case too, but I never like to say anything is definate in España!!!!!!!
> 
> Anyway an update on my sons appointments. We now have two appointments, one for the MRI and a follow up. What I have found amazing is that while sorting out various things at the hospital today, I suddenly realised that I was speaking spanish and understanding the answers!!! Ok, I was probably way off with my grammar and verb endings etc, but I was conversing and saying what I wanted to. It all seemed to just come to me
> 
> Jo xxx


Good to hear it appears to be all under control. I'm always amazed that people understand when I speak in Spanish. I struggle a bit with the replies, espacially in a noisy place, as I am a bit deaf.


----------



## Stravinsky

You should apply for form E109. Call the HMRC on 0044 191203 7010.

Alternatively google CA8454, and the download directly the application form they'll send you

You will then have full Spanish healthcare for hubbies dependents in Spain ... well ... eventually anyway


----------



## Pesky Wesky

How's it going Jo?
Is your son going to school??
Was your husband home this wekend to lavish lots of care and attention on you all???


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> How's it going Jo?
> Is your son going to school??
> Was your husband home this wekend to lavish lots of care and attention on you all???



Husband is actually filling out that form that Strav has advised as we speak!!! So yes he's here so we have another pair of hands waiting on my son! Its his birthday today too - poor baby, 15 today and cant do anything!!!!

He's actually going back to school tomorrow, a sort of trial really cos he has to keep his leg rested completely and elevated as much as possible, so altho he has crutches, he mustnt move about too much. But the headmaster is gonna see how he gets on. Well, my sons bored at home and TBH, I'm paying for him to be at school lol!!!!!

He has an MRI scan booked for Saturday and then another appointment with the consultant 10 days after that to establish if the resting has solved or solving the problem. If not he'll need an operation

Of course now my daughters obviously feeling left out and has started up again. Another mum at the school (an english lady married to a spaniard) came up to me at the school gates and said how sad her daughter was that Ruby was leaving and going back to England - WHAT????? I said?????? Apparently Ruby has told the class (including the teacher) that she's leaving, so they've arranged a farewell party for her tomorrow?? She's apparently arranged with a friend in England to live with her (no mothers have been consulted)!!??? So we're having "words" at the moment!!!!!!!!!!! just when you think everythings settled 

Jo xxxx


----------



## topcat83

jojo said:


> Of course now my daughters obviously feeling left out and has started up again. Another mum at the school (an english lady married to a spaniard) came up to me at the school gates and said how sad her daughter was that Ruby was leaving and going back to England - WHAT????? I said?????? Apparently Ruby has told the class (including the teacher) that she's leaving, so they've arranged a farewell party for her tomorrow?? She's apparently arranged with a friend in England to live with her (no mothers have been consulted)!!??? So we're having "words" at the moment!!!!!!!!!!! just when you think everythings settled
> 
> Jo xxxx


Lol! Who'd have children??


----------



## nigele2

sorry Jo but that is the funniest thing I have heard in ages  a young lady with a great future.

You could of course forget the words and just offer to drive her to the airport


----------



## jojo

nigele2 said:


> sorry Jo but that is the funniest thing I have heard in ages  a young lady with a great future.
> 
> You could of course forget the words and just offer to drive her to the airport



Oh, I'm very close to that Nigel!!!!! But I cant help thinking the embarrassment when she doesnt leave will be funnier!!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Of course now my daughters obviously feeling left out and has started up again. Another mum at the school (an english lady married to a spaniard) came up to me at the school gates and said how sad her daughter was that Ruby was leaving and going back to England - WHAT????? I said?????? Apparently Ruby has told the class (including the teacher) that she's leaving, so they've arranged a farewell party for her tomorrow?? She's apparently arranged with a friend in England to live with her (no mothers have been consulted)!!??? So we're having "words" at the moment!!!!!!!!!!! just when you think everythings settled
> 
> Jo xxxx


OMG Jo!!
She's got character, you've got to give her that!!
I wonder who she takes after????????


----------



## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> You should apply for form E109. Call the HMRC on 0044 191203 7010.
> 
> Alternatively google CA8454, and the download directly the application form they'll send you
> 
> You will then have full Spanish healthcare for hubbies dependents in Spain ... well ... eventually anyway


ok

from that link the E109 is if you are working & living paying tax & NI in the UK & supporting a family abroad - jojo's situation

what if you are living in Spain, but working for & paying tax & NI tthrough a UK company, & supporting your family in Spain?

that says the E106 is what you need - but I thought that only lasts 2.5 years - if you are working permanently in that situation, what happens after 2.5 years?


----------



## lynn

xabiachica said:


> ok
> 
> from that link the E109 is if you are working & living paying tax & NI in the UK & supporting a family abroad - jojo's situation
> 
> what if you are living in Spain, but working for & paying tax & NI tthrough a UK company, & supporting your family in Spain?
> 
> that says the E106 is what you need - but I thought that only lasts 2.5 years - if you are working permanently in that situation, what happens after 2.5 years?


Exactly the situation we are in. We are Spanish resident, but my husband works in the UK and pays tax and NI in the UK. We have been issued an E106 for one year, after which we reapply and SHOULD get another year, and then 6 months, but what happens after that? Will we be able to extend it further because my husband is still paying NI contributions, or will it be switched off? None of his work is conducted in Spain, so we can't pay into the spanish social security system.


----------



## SteveHall

lynn said:


> Exactly the situation we are in. We are Spanish resident, but my husband works in the UK and pays tax and NI in the UK. We have been issued an E106 for one year, after which we reapply and SHOULD get another year, and then 6 months, but what happens after that? Will we be able to extend it further because my husband is still paying NI contributions, or will it be switched off? None of his work is conducted in Spain, *so we can't pay into the spanish social security system.*


You can. You can make one of you a fully legal autónomo. I have been through this in detail with my accountant on at least two occasions.


----------



## jojo

lynn said:


> Exactly the situation we are in. We are Spanish resident, but my husband works in the UK and pays tax and NI in the UK. We have been issued an E106 for one year, after which we reapply and SHOULD get another year, and then 6 months, but what happens after that? Will we be able to extend it further because my husband is still paying NI contributions, or will it be switched off? None of his work is conducted in Spain, so we can't pay into the spanish social security system.



My husband has been chatting to his accountant in the UK and according to him (he's no expert but has dealt with this sort of situation before), you CAN claim for as long as one of you is working and paying into the UK system indefinitely due to this reciprocal arrangement between Spain and the UK. There isnt a 2 1/2 year cut off


Jo xxxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> My husband has been chatting to his accountant in the UK and according to him (he's no expert but has dealt with this sort of situation before), you CAN claim for as long as one of you is working and paying into the UK system indefinitely due to this reciprocal arrangement between Spain and the UK. There isnt a 2 1/2 year cut off
> 
> 
> Jo xxxx


that's what I wanted to hear!:clap2:


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> that's what I wanted to hear!:clap2:


yes me too - but lets make sure its accurate before we get too excited, altho Ohs acccountant is pretty certain!!!!???

Jo xxxx


----------



## SteveHall

Sorry to hear that Ruby is playing up again. I remember at her age that I was going to run away from home to live in Hungary. I can´t remember why it was Hungary in particular but I did get as far as the bus-station to check. A kind guy, explained that to get to Hungary I would need to go to London. Mmmm, never been there before and not even sure I had enough money to get there. (..never mind Hungary!) To get to London, I would need to book a ticket and I am sure I would never have done that before. Mmm, this is getting tricky. Perhaps I had better go home and revise my plans. By the time I was home, some friends were round wanting to play football, off we went and to this day I have NEVER been to Hungary! 40 years later I think about this incident every time I think of Hungary. 

Mind you, at least Ruby has a passport. I didn´t! Oh those, innocent days of youth.


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> Sorry to hear that Ruby is playing up again. I remember at her age that I was going to run away from home to live in Hungary. I can´t remember why it was Hungary in particular but I did get as far as the bus-station to check. A kind guy, explained that to get to Hungary I would need to go to London. Mmmm, never been there before and not even sure I had enough money to get there. (..never mind Hungary!) To get to London, I would need to book a ticket and I am sure I would never have done that before. Mmm, this is getting tricky. Perhaps I had better go home and revise my plans. By the time I was home, some friends were round wanting to play football, off we went and to this day I have NEVER been to Hungary! 40 years later I think about this incident every time I think of Hungary.
> 
> Mind you, at least Ruby has a passport. I didn´t! Oh those, innocent days of youth.



Ah, but Ruby is a female! Nearly a teenage female!!! Very strong-willed, relentless, belligerent and defiant - nothing like her mother LOL 

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

If you really want to know, write to this guy in the British consulate!

martin.fitches at fco dot gov dot uk 
He is the country manager | Pension, Benefit & Healthcare Team | British Consulate General | Madrid.
If he can't tell you, no one can. Please post the answer here


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> If you really want to know, write to this guy in the British consulate!
> 
> martin.fitches at fco dot gov dot uk
> He is the country manager | Pension, Benefit & Healthcare Team | British Consulate General | Madrid.
> If he can't tell you, no one can. Please post the answer here



He's the guy who writes on here as "DWPinspain" I think?? 


Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> He's the guy who writes on here as "DWPinspain" I think??
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I think he is?

so you must be able to get in touch with him easily then?


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I think he is?
> 
> so you must be able to get in touch with him easily then?


I've PMd him - dunno why I didnt think of doing that earlier!!!??  

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I've PMd him - dunno why I didnt think of doing that earlier!!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


:clap2:


----------



## jojo

reply from DWPinspain

"There's no problem. Just get your husband to fill in this application form for an E109. It's for dependants of people who work in another EU country. When the form is processed and received you need to register it at the INSS withy our residencias, padron certs and passports (and photocopies).

You can get the application form from this link:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/ca8454.pdf


Jo xxxx


----------



## Tallulah

jojo said:


> reply from DWPinspain
> 
> "There's no problem. Just get your husband to fill in this application form for an E109. It's for dependants of people who work in another EU country. When the form is processed and received you need to register it at the INSS withy our residencias, padron certs and passports (and photocopies).
> 
> You can get the application form from this link:
> 
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/ca8454.pdf
> 
> 
> Jo xxxx


That so needs to go on a sticky, Jo!


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## jojo

I think its the same link that Strav posted a few pages back!! So he'll be feeling all pious now LOL!!!

Jo xxx


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## DWPinSpain

Tallulah said:


> That so needs to go on a sticky, Jo!


It seems so.

E109s are for families where one parent is living/working in one EU country and their dependants live in another EU country.

They have to be renewed every year.


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> reply from DWPinspain
> 
> "There's no problem. Just get your husband to fill in this application form for an E109. It's for dependants of people who work in another EU country. When the form is processed and received you need to register it at the INSS withy our residencias, padron certs and passports (and photocopies).
> 
> You can get the application form from this link:
> 
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/ca8454.pdf
> 
> 
> Jo xxxx


WOW!
That was quick! I had to wait for seven days when I wrote to him. What it is to have contacts, eh???


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> WOW!
> That was quick! I had to wait for seven days when I wrote to him. What it is to have contacts, eh???



I think he thinks of me as a pest and gets rid of me as quickly as possible lol


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

DWPinSpain said:


> It seems so.
> 
> E109s are for families where one parent is living/working in one EU country and their dependants live in another EU country.
> 
> They have to be renewed every year.


but what if the whole family lives in Spain, but the income is paid by a UK company - tax & national insurance etc paid there?

I am aware that a tax declaration also has to be made in Spain, but what about healthcare?

I think the E106 is applicable, but I understood that the health coverage on that expires after 2.5 years - or is that also renewable?


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## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> but what if the whole family lives in Spain, but the income is paid by a UK company - tax & national insurance etc paid there?
> 
> I am aware that a tax declaration also has to be made in Spain, but what about healthcare?
> 
> I think the E106 is applicable, but I understood that the health coverage on that expires after 2.5 years - or is that also renewable?


Ask you-know-who!


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ask you-know-who!


I sort of hoped I was


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## DWPinSpain

xabiachica said:


> but what if the whole family lives in Spain, but the income is paid by a UK company - tax & national insurance etc paid there?
> 
> I am aware that a tax declaration also has to be made in Spain, but what about healthcare?
> 
> I think the E106 is applicable, but I understood that the health coverage on that expires after 2.5 years - or is that also renewable?


If someone is physically doing their work in Spain, even if it's by internet, they should usually be affiliated to the Spanish social security system and paying their national insurance here, unless they fall into certain categories.

You can find all the relevant info here:

International - DWP

Alternatively, you could come along to one of our roadshows/talks and ask in person. The next one is in Benitachell on Feb 10th.


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## xabiaxica

DWPinSpain said:


> If someone is physically doing their work in Spain, even if it's by internet, they should usually be affiliated to the Spanish social security system and paying their national insurance here, unless they fall into certain categories.
> 
> You can find all the relevant info here:
> 
> International - DWP
> 
> Alternatively, you could come along to one of our roadshows/talks and ask in person. The next one is in Benitachell on Feb 10th.


thank you

I shall have a good read


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## Pesky Wesky

How's it going Jo? 
Is he on the mend?


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> How's it going Jo?
> Is he on the mend?



Well... the story so far. He had his MRI scan last Saturday and was supposed to go to see the consultant for the "summing up" and the decision as to what to do on the following Tuesday - Tuesday just gone, the Tuesday that we were "flooded in"!! So we missed the appointment! However, I went down to Torremolinos Hospital today and have made another appointment for this coming monday - so.... thats where we are at the mo. He went to school today and is still on crutches and keeping it rested as much as possible. It doesnt hurt anymore tho and the swelling has gone. 

We steamed open the letter that the MRI scan chap wrote for his consultant, we put it into "google translate" hhhmmm. I dont think its too bad, I think maybe a small surgical procedure and lots of physio is being suggested???????????? But I'm not sure 

Thanks for asking 


Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Well... the story so far. He had his MRI scan last Saturday and was supposed to go to see the consultant for the "summing up" and the decision as to what to do on the following Tuesday - Tuesday just gone, the Tuesday that we were "flooded in"!! So we missed the appointment! However, I went down to Torremolinos Hospital today and have made another appointment for this coming monday - so.... thats where we are at the mo. He went to school today and is still on crutches and keeping it rested as much as possible. It doesnt hurt anymore tho and the swelling has gone.
> 
> We steamed open the letter that the MRI scan chap wrote for his consultant, we put it into "google translate" hhhmmm. I dont think its too bad, I think maybe a small surgical procedure and lots of physio is being suggested???????????? But I'm not sure
> 
> Thanks for asking
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, not too bad perhaps, but he kind of f****d up his leg, didn't he?


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, not too bad perhaps, but he kind of f****d up his leg, didn't he?


What made the whole thing worse is that when he did it, I didnt believe him - well I did, but I thought he was being a wimp (he does have that tendency!!), so I was telling him to "pull himself together" and stop limping and moaning (dont tell social services ). So for three weeks I took little notice. It was only when the school insisted he should do P:E. unless he provided a doctors note that I took him and... well the rest, as they say, is history !!! I'd like to say that I feel guilty and I do to a point, but I've said to him on numerous occasions, when he's rolling around hysterically crying cos he's broken an eye lash, that one day he'll be like the boy who cried wolf!!!!!! and sure enough...

actually, no I feel rotten, but dont tell him 

Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> What made the whole thing worse is that when he did it, I didnt believe him - well I did, but I thought he was being a wimp (he does have that tendency!!), so I was telling him to "pull himself together" and stop limping and moaning (dont tell social services ). So for three weeks I took little notice. It was only when the school insisted he should do P:E. unless he provided a doctors note that I took him and... well the rest, as they say, is history !!! I'd like to say that I feel guilty and I do to a point, but I've said to him on numerous occasions, when he's rolling around hysterically crying cos he's broken an eye lash, that one day he'll be like the boy who cried wolf!!!!!! and sure enough...
> 
> actually, no I feel rotten, but dont tell him
> 
> Jo xxx


I've been guilty of that as well. My OH took to his bed once with a cold. He moaned and groaned and I just thought it was the usual 'man flu' thing. The bedroom was up in the loft conversion, and when he kept asking me for drinks, I got fed up and said he was quite capable of getting them himself (down two flights of stairs). Anyway, he really started moaning and I just decided to pop out to the shops to get away from his wingeing for a while. When I got back, there was an ambulance at the door, carting him off to hospital! When I got down there, it turned out he had pneumonia and had to be admitted! 

Anyway, he was on the road to recovery and two weeks later we were due to go on holiday in France. The consultant said it was OK for him to travel, as long as he didn't drive. That was OK with me, as I'd driven across France before, but when we stopped at a petrol station to fill up, he got out to do the deed, and I promptly ran over his foot in a massive 4x4!

When I put it down in black and white, it does make me wonder how we are still married. ... Or maybe this is why the arrangement of his working back in the UK is working so well!!


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## jojo

lynn said:


> I've been guilty of that as well. My OH took to his bed once with a cold. He moaned and groaned and I just thought it was the usual 'man flu' thing. The bedroom was up in the loft conversion, and when he kept asking me for drinks, I got fed up and said he was quite capable of getting them himself (down two flights of stairs). Anyway, he really started moaning and I just decided to pop out to the shops to get away from his wingeing for a while. When I got back, there was an ambulance at the door, carting him off to hospital! When I got down there, it turned out he had pneumonia and had to be admitted!
> 
> Anyway, he was on the road to recovery and two weeks later we were due to go on holiday in France. The consultant said it was OK for him to travel, as long as he didn't drive. That was OK with me, as I'd driven across France before, but when we stopped at a petrol station to fill up, he got out to do the deed, and I promptly ran over his foot in a massive 4x4!
> 
> When I put it down in black and white, it does make me wonder how we are still married. ... Or maybe this is why the arrangement of his working back in the UK is working so well!!



The reason us women are like this is cos thats what they're like with us!! When I've been unwell, which isnt often, everyone just expects me to carry on!!??? I'm sure your OH misses you tho

"Men get flu, children get colds, women get on with it"!!!!!


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> What made the whole thing worse is that when he did it, I didnt believe him - well I did, but I thought he was being a wimp (he does have that tendency!!), so I was telling him to "pull himself together" and stop limping and moaning (dont tell social services ). So for three weeks I took little notice. It was only when the school insisted he should do P:E. unless he provided a doctors note that I took him and... well the rest, as they say, is history !!! I'd like to say that I feel guilty and I do to a point, but I've said to him on numerous occasions, when he's rolling around hysterically crying cos he's broken an eye lash, that one day he'll be like the boy who cried wolf!!!!!! and sure enough...
> 
> actually, no I feel rotten, but dont tell him
> 
> Jo xxx


I was the same when dd1 broke her arm - there was no swelling, no bruising, she could move her fingers

after a few days of the tears & so on we finally gave in & got her x-rayed


she still brings it up 2 years later


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## jojo

Update:

My son had his visit to the consultant today and was given the all clear!!! All the resting and the crutches have healed the ligament!!! YAY! He now has to undergo some physio and must take it very easy for the next few weeks, so the crutches will have to stay for now, but the plaster has gone!!!!! he's mended!!!


Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> Update:
> 
> My son had his visit to the consultant today and was given the all clear!!! All the resting and the crutches have healed the ligament!!! YAY! He now has to undergo some physio and must take it very easy for the next few weeks, so the crutches will have to stay for now, but the plaster has gone!!!!! he's mended!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Fantastic! You must be so relieved! Its good to get a happy ending isn't it?


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## jojo

lynn said:


> Fantastic! You must be so relieved! Its good to get a happy ending isn't it?



It's great - we were concerned cos there was talk of him needing an operation which terrified him!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Update:
> 
> My son had his visit to the consultant today and was given the all clear!!! All the resting and the crutches have healed the ligament!!! YAY! He now has to undergo some physio and must take it very easy for the next few weeks, so the crutches will have to stay for now, but the plaster has gone!!!!! he's mended!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


good news:clap2:

he must have been a good boy resting then



what am I talking about - _of course _he was - what teenage boy doesn't want to be waited on hand & foot


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> good news:clap2:
> 
> he must have been a good boy resting then
> 
> 
> 
> what am I talking about - _of course _he was - what teenage boy doesn't want to be waited on hand & foot



LOL! Thats all about to change, he has to exercise it now 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Update:
> 
> My son had his visit to the consultant today and was given the all clear!!! All the resting and the crutches have healed the ligament!!! YAY! He now has to undergo some physio and must take it very easy for the next few weeks, so the crutches will have to stay for now, but the plaster has gone!!!!! he's mended!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Good to hear that Jo


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## nicola rose

jojo said:


> My son hurt his leg, I took him to Málaga hospital on Saturday and they x-rayed and drained the swelling and told me to go to Torremolinos hospital where they specialise in injuries - he has (according to the consultant) a very nasty torn ligament in his knee. They've bandaged it up, told us to get crutches, medication and to make an appointment for three weeks time for an MRI scan and a possible operation. I went to the appointment desk, but they refused to do anything without a social security number. We dont have one. My children dont even have NIE numbers, cos at the time they were included on mine, but apparently not anymore???????
> 
> I'm on the brink of sending my son back to the UK to get this sorted - any ideas please. I'm feeling quite desperate. What made it worse is that I didnt have an enterpreter with me and the doctor gave me a telling off, cos he wanted to talk about my sons knee in depth - I understood that the hospital in Torremolinos had them, but they didnt
> 
> Jo xxxx


 Hi Joe, I am so sorry to hear that, how awful of them - well it does not suprise me. I had an knee ligament problem and the ligament was broken and I can understand exactly how your son must be feeling. I have Mapre cover which i have had now for 5 years and my daughter is on it as well, it costs 1,330 for the year and it is brilliant. I hope this helps and so sorry that i cant do anything more to assist you. Big hug and keep me posted saludos nicola


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## JazII

Hi Jo

Glad to hear your son's on the road to recovery ;-))

When I messed up the ligament in my foot last year it took a few months to repair but I got there in the end and I'm sure he will too.....yeah the exercise maybe a little uncomfortable to begin with but no pain no gain (well in a controlled way in the case of ligament rehab) :clap2:


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## nicola rose

*its only me - Nicola*



nicola rose said:


> Hi Joe, I am so sorry to hear that, how awful of them - well it does not suprise me. I had an knee ligament problem and the ligament was broken and I can understand exactly how your son must be feeling. I have Mapre cover which i have had now for 5 years and my daughter is on it as well, it costs 1,330 for the year and it is brilliant. I hope this helps and so sorry that i cant do anything more to assist you. Big hug and keep me posted saludos nicola


 Hi Joe, How is your son doing? please let me know, how things go. big hug saludos nicola


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## jojo

My son has been given the all clear, his "broken" ligament has healed, but he now needs quite a bit of physio - he's been given an "urgent" appointment at the hospital in May?? Not sure what we were supposed to do wth him til then, so we're taking him privately. He still uses the crutches, but he can more or less weight bare. Thanks for asking

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks

jojo said:


> but he can more or less weight bare.


In this weather waiting bare he will freeze to death. and stop using those four letter words such as "b*re" you know, from another thread, how it gets Steve all excited.

On a more serious note. I tore a ligament in my right elbow when I was in my second year at high school and after several months in a sling while it healed I had to have hotwax baths and do physio three times a week at the local hospital to try to get my elbow that had tightened up at an angle of about 120° to straighten up. It was Oh so painful that I didn't do it as well as I should and even now nearly 50 years later, I can't get it any straighter than 170° (OK so you're all checking to see how far you can straighten yours!)

Please encourage him to persist with the physio unless he wants to be partially disabled for the rest of his life.


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