# Living in the UK\Working for US Company



## kelvingrove (Mar 13, 2013)

I am a dual UK\US citizen, born in the UK and have been married and living in the US for 12 years. My kids are dual citizens and my wife is a US citizen.

We want to move back to the UK for a year while I retain my computer job with my existing company, who do not have an office in the UK. We would return to the US after a year.

Has anyone gone through a similar experience? Looking for some advice as there is a lot to think about specifically visas (I assume I need a VAF4A?), tax implications (do I have to file UK taxes?), implications for my employer (will they be seen as doing business in the UK?) etc.

Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kelvingrove said:


> I am a dual UK\US citizen, born in the UK and have been married and living in the US for 12 years. My kids are dual citizens and my wife is a US citizen.
> 
> We want to move back to the UK for a year while I retain my computer job with my existing company, who do not have an office in the UK. We would return to the US after a year.
> 
> Has anyone gone through a similar experience? Looking for some advice as there is a lot to think about specifically visas (I assume I need a VAF4A?), tax implications (do I have to file UK taxes?), implications for my employer (will they be seen as doing business in the UK?) etc.


You need a visa for your wife but not for British citizens like yourself or children. Now there is a strict financial requirement to sponsor your wife for a partner visa, and you need to be earning £18,600 now in US and have a job offer in UK paying at least as much starting within 3 months. Or if you have savings of £62,500, that alone will be sufficient. Or return home and work for 6 months earning at least £1550 a month gross.
There is no other way, except if your wife can get a sponsored work visa, intra-company transfer or a student visa etc.
Your tax position can get complicated. If you are actually living in UK, even working for a US employer (online?) will still make you liable for UK income tax. Your UK tax can be set against US foreign earned income exclusion worth $97,600, but you still have to file your US tax return each year.


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## kelvingrove (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks for the reply, Joppa. I intend to keep my position with my US-based company (working online) and I can meet the financial requirements for visa sponsorship for my existing position . I do not intend to look for a job or have a job offer. As long as I have a letter for my employer indicating my position, tenure with the company, salary etc. do you know if I can use that in lieu of having a job offer? In other words I don't need a job offer because I will be continuing my employment during my stay in the UK.

Thanks.


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## rosemary55 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hi - Just wondering if you ever found anything out about this. I'm currently living in the US working for a US company that allows me to work from home. I will be joining my husband in the UK as soon as my spousal visa is processed (fingers crossed), and my company has agreed to keep me on after I move. 

The catch is - they want me to look into the tax implications of this. I know/assume I would still have to pay taxes in the UK, and I'm interested in any info on that, but I also need to know how this will affect my company/their payroll taxes, etc. They are trying to decide whether to keep me on as an employee or if I will need to be employed/paid on a "contract" basis.

Do you know how your US company handled this? Any advice would be very much appreciated!


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

When I asked in the Tax Forum, on expatforum, most suggested it is cleaner to be hired on a "contract" basis, because the taxes are paid in a different way, making the company not have a UK presence and the contractor having an easier time paying the UK taxes without having to deal with as many problems with the US taxes.

This is just going to get more common over time, but no matter how much I searched, I couldn't find any clean/ clear/ official information about the implications for the employer, and very little for the employee. 

M


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## rosemary55 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thank you for your reply!


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## kelvingrove (Mar 13, 2013)

rosemary55 said:


> Hi - Just wondering if you ever found anything out about this. I'm currently living in the US working for a US company that allows me to work from home. I will be joining my husband in the UK as soon as my spousal visa is processed (fingers crossed), and my company has agreed to keep me on after I move.
> 
> The catch is - they want me to look into the tax implications of this. I know/assume I would still have to pay taxes in the UK, and I'm interested in any info on that, but I also need to know how this will affect my company/their payroll taxes, etc. They are trying to decide whether to keep me on as an employee or if I will need to be employed/paid on a "contract" basis.
> 
> Do you know how your US company handled this? Any advice would be very much appreciated!


Hi Rosemary:

I just went through the same process and move to the UK at the end of August with my family. My US-based employer does not have a UK presence and I will be working remotely from the UK for them (my choice). Note that I am a dual UK\US citizen and my wife is the one getting the spouse visa. I'm not sure if the following would be different in the case where a US citizen is moving to the UK on a visa and working remotely from there. Thankfully I have a friend who works for the HMRC who was able to give me some advice. I'll be talking with him more when I arrive in the UK.

First for personal taxes, he said that under the recent tax law changes you can enter the UK as either domicile or non-domicile. The former would make all your earnings taxable but the latter would mean only the money you bring into the country from the US would be taxable. We can then offset any UK taxes paid against our US taxes in a couple of different ways. There are minor implications of each option. With non-domicile I can't take a tax exclusion for foreign earnings (on page 1 of the 1040) but I can take a foreign earnings credit (page 2). I'm sure one option is better than the other financially for you but would definitely recommend speaking to a tax accountant who understands both UK and US taxes. I did that as well. And as you probably know you will have to file both UK and US taxes.

For corporate taxes, the tax accountant recommended having the company sign an Assignment Letter (contract between employer and employee) which is basically an insurance policy against the UK government coming after the company for taxes since you will be working there however my friend said that the chances of that happening are minimal; especially in my position as a developer where I am not in the UK trying to earn revenue for the company. It would cost the UK government a significant amount of money to try to take the US-based company to court. Probably something you should mention to your company but it will cost about $3000 for the Letter. I discussed it with my employer and we decided it was not necessary (which is good because I didn't want to foot the bill).

Good luck with the spouse visa. We just got ours a couple of weeks ago. What a lot of effort. Should have applied before last year's change to the law.


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## kelvingrove (Mar 13, 2013)

Oh and I forgot to say that from the company's perspective I am still US-based in that my payroll will continue to get paid into a US bank account. The only affect on them will be the time zone and the international area code when I call.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

kelvingrove said:


> Hi Rosemary:
> 
> I just went through the same process and move to the UK at the end of August with my family. My US-based employer does not have a UK presence and I will be working remotely from the UK for them (my choice). Note that I am a dual UK\US citizen and my wife is the one getting the spouse visa. I'm not sure if the following would be different in the case where a US citizen is moving to the UK on a visa and working remotely from there. Thankfully I have a friend who works for the HMRC who was able to give me some advice. I'll be talking with him more when I arrive in the UK.
> 
> ...


How did you meet the financial requirement for your wife's visa as your US job doesn't meet the requirement of being a UK employer?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

In a previous post he says:

_Additionally, I was able to secure a visa for my spouse without a UK job offer. I provided evidence that I would be keeping my US-based job (my employer does not have a UK presence) and working remotely from the UK. Didn't quite meet the letter of the law but it worked! _

So there may be some flexibility in interpretation? The immigration rules in Appendix FM-SE only talk about 'employment in the UK' without defining it further, such as the employer must be based in UK or incorporated there, So where the employer has no UK physical presence but allows the sponsor to work remotely in UK (where they will be tax resident), it may be allowed?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Joppa said:


> In a previous post he says:
> 
> _Additionally, I was able to secure a visa for my spouse without a UK job offer. I provided evidence that I would be keeping my US-based job (my employer does not have a UK presence) and working remotely from the UK. Didn't quite meet the letter of the law but it worked! _
> 
> So there may be some flexibility in interpretation?


Thanks. I missed that. Interesting.


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## kelvingrove (Mar 13, 2013)

Joppa said:


> In a previous post he says:
> 
> _Additionally, I was able to secure a visa for my spouse without a UK job offer. I provided evidence that I would be keeping my US-based job (my employer does not have a UK presence) and working remotely from the UK. Didn't quite meet the letter of the law but it worked! _
> 
> So there may be some flexibility in interpretation? The immigration rules in Appendix FM-SE only talk about 'employment in the UK' without defining it further, such as the employer must be based in UK or incorporated there, So where the employer has no UK physical presence but allows the sponsor to work remotely in UK (where they will be tax resident), it may be allowed?


Definitely worked for me! In addition to copies of my earnings statements and employment contract , I included a letter on company-headed paper signed by the managing partner of our office verifying their authenticity:

"This letter provides verification that the following documents included with Mr. Joe Bloggs’s VAF4A Family Settlement Application are authentic and have been issued by Acme Co..

•Employee Agreement between Acme Co. and Joe Bloggs signed January 1, 2000.
•Earnings Statements issued by Accurate Accounting and covering the period October 1, 2012 to May 1, 2013."

Also included a second letter on letterhead signed by an HR representative:

"This letter provides verification of Mr. Joe Bloggs’s permanent, full-time employment with Acme Co. Mr. Bloggs’s hire date with Acme Co., formerly known as General Co., was January 1, 2000. His current title is Dogsbody, and his current annual salary is $50,000.

Mr. Bloggs will be working remotely in the United Kingdom from July 1, 2013, and will remain employed with Acme Co. at his current salary level. Mr. Bloggs has a computer-based job and has worked remotely for extended periods of time within the United States over the past eight years."

Oh and on the form where it asks to give details of your new employment in the UK, just repeat the details for your current employer. I did not put a UK address. The goal is just to provide the person reading your application enough confidence that you will be earning a salary in the UK and will not apply for benefits.


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## kelvingrove (Mar 13, 2013)

rosemary55 said:


> I will be joining my husband in the UK as soon as my spousal visa is processed (fingers crossed), and my company has agreed to keep me on after I move.


I just re-read the statement above and so it would seem like your employment status shouldn't factor into the Visa application in the way I first thought. Since your husband is living in the UK and is sponsoring YOU, he needs to prove that HE can support YOU and his salary meets the financial requirement. I'm not sure if your salary can count towards the minimum requirement or not (perhaps someone else can confirm?). The only place your employment situation comes into play would be question 2.8, "Do you intend to work in the UK?" So my previous post might not be relevant to your situation after all (but is hopefully useful to someone else). Hope that helps.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You are right. It's the sponsor's salary earned in UK that counts, and the applicant's current work in US won't be considered. even if they hope to work remotely after moving to UK.
When you come to apply for your next leave, renewal after 30 months, both incomes can be taken into account.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kelvingrove said:


> Definitely worked for me! In addition to copies of my earnings statements and employment contract , I included a letter on company-headed paper signed by the managing partner of our office verifying their authenticity:
> 
> "This letter provides verification that the following documents included with Mr. Joe Bloggs’s VAF4A Family Settlement Application are authentic and have been issued by Acme Co..
> 
> ...


I have just re-read the following from FM1.7, which seems to apply to this situation:

"5.5.5. Where the applicant's partner is working overseas and transfers with the same employer to a job in the UK, that employment may be used to meet both the overseas employment income and the confirmed job offer in the UK required under Category A or Category B.2."

So this 'job in the UK' with the same employer can include doing the same work you have been doing abroad but now you will be working remotely in UK. This is an interesting development and I would like to see further confirmation - i.e. another case study.


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