# Non-EU (Australian) citizen married to EU (Italian) citizen, moving to Italy



## louisecm

Hi all,

I am an Australian/Italian dual citizen. At the end of November my Australian boyfriend (he only has Australian citizenship) and I are getting married.

I'll then take my marriage certificate with apostille, Italian translation and other necessary forms to the Italian Consulate so that it can be registered in Italy (I have confirmed this with the Italian Consulate).

So let's just say I am already married and the marriage is registered in Italy. In March 2014 my husband and I are moving to Europe and we are travelling around Europe for a year, visiting both Schengen and non-Schengen countries but definitely exceeding the 90 out of 180 day limit in Schengen countries. 

Will this be a problem for my Australian husband, as long as he is with me the whole time? Does he need to apply for a special visa? I have always lived in Australia, should I apply for a residence permit from Italy or do I need any other forms of ID other than my Italian passport? 

We're just trying to think of all possible scenarios and would like to travel in Europe for a year legally! 

We also thought he could apply for a working holiday visa (he is eligible) for either Italy or Germany (we thought Germany might be easier) but we were worried about the 90 day rule and I don't think this is necessary if he is married to me an EU citizen.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers
Louise


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## Bevdeforges

Since you are an EU national, your husband is entitled to the same rights and privileges within the EU as you are - however, you will have to apply for some form of residence permit for him. If you want to be "resident" in Italy, you'll have to check with the Italian consulate for their requirements for a spouse visa. 

Go to any other EU country and there is supposed to be a "facilitated" process whereby he can be granted a residence permit - but with the usual round of limitations (i.e. 90 days out of 180 for visiting other Schengen countries).

EUROPA – Living abroad for more details. 

The trick is that you will have to pick a country for residence during your year in Europe. Usually it's best to pick the country in which you expect to spend the most time during that year.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

I can elaborate a bit.

He will need legal entry into the Schengen Area (or other EU country) where you register as residents, but Australians can do that without a visa. So there's no visa requirement.

Let's assume you register as residents of Italy. You'll need to register as a resident first which you do by visiting the Anagrafe in the commune where you reside. Bring along your Italian passport or _carta d'identita'_ (Italian ID card) and a copy of your apartment lease (for example). You should then get a slip of paper as a registration receipt. Your husband then takes a copy of that, his passport, an official copy of your Italian marriage certificate (which you can get from your home commune), and perhaps a bit of money to the Post Office and applies for a _carta di soggiorno_. He'll then get a receipt if he successfully submits his application. He has to do that within 90 days of arrival in Italy and assuming he got a stamp from Italy in his passport when he arrived. If he didn't get a stamp -- if he entered the Schengen Area in some other country then traveled to Italy -- then he'll need to stop by the questura (police station) and get a dichiarazione di presenza (declaration of presence) within 8 days of arrival in Italy.

Once he has the CdS receipt in hand he's good to go, including roaming with you around Europe. (Though you should wait for the police to stop by your apartment, home, or friend's house to make sure you actually live there so that the residence registration is complete.) You'll also want to get a codice fiscale (Italian Social Security number) if you don't have one already -- you can get one before you leave via your consulate -- and both register for the public health system in Italy. (And when you do that you'll get a European Health Insurance Card, too.) And get Italian ID cards so you don't have to carry your passports everywhere.

Note that becoming a registered resident of Italy automatically means you become a tax resident of Italy with few if any exceptions.

If you decide to establish residence elsewhere in Europe the procedures are pretty similar. It's a good idea to get the international format ("formato internazionale") of your Italian marriage certificate, and that'll be more easily accepted throughout Europe since it'll have multiple languages. You may not be able to enroll in the public health systems in other countries and may require private insurance.

Enjoy, and congratulations. Oh, don't bother describing yourself as "Australian" in Italy or for these purposes elsewhere in Europe. Your possession of another citizenship is immaterial for these purposes and would only confuse. "Hi, I'm an Italian citizen," full stop, is the approach you should take. (In Australia it's the opposite.)


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## Bevdeforges

But if the wife has Italian citizenship, doesn't she have to apply for a spouse visa for him?

The EU requirements left the immigration process to the spouse's home country, AFAIK. You're entitled to the "facilitated" process only if you're in an EU country, not the country of nationality of the EU spouse.

But maybe Italy has loosened up their requirements lately. In any event, if you want to use Italy for your residence base, check with the Italian consulate for the spouse visa requirements.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Bevdeforges said:


> But if the wife has Italian citizenship, doesn't she have to apply for a spouse visa for him?


EU treaty rights only require legal entry. Citizens from visa waiver countries can already enter the Schengen Area without a visa. They are permitted to do so to join their EU citizen family members just as they are for tourism. Citizens of non-visa waiver countries require visas in order to enter legally.

The few exceptions occur when EU treaty rights are not being exercised and the applicable government imposes additional requirements on its own citizens. That's the case with U.K. citizens trying to bring their foreign spouses into the U.K. In such circumstances they are not exercising EU treaty rights, and the U.K. can require its own citizens in their own country to jump through extra hoops if it wishes. The U.K. government does indeed do that. The Italian government, however, does not. (And the U.K. government cannot require EU/EEA/Swiss citizens who are not U.K. citizens and who are exercising their EU treaty rights to do anything more than follow the EU treaty requirements which require legal entry only.)



> The EU requirements left the immigration process to the spouse's home country, AFAIK. You're entitled to the "facilitated" process only if you're in an EU country, not the country of nationality of the EU spouse.


Correct but only if the country decides to require its own citizens to exceed EU treaty requirements. Fortunately Italy does not require its citizens to exceed EU treaty requirements when bringing foreign spouses to live in Italy, so Italians never have this problem (unlike U.K. citizens in the U.K.) (Although before anyone praises Italy _too much_, the U.K. recognizes same sex partnerships and Italy doesn't at the present time.)

Italian consulates can issue family visas to foreign spouses even if/when they're not required. They're not free, unfortunately. That said, I can think of one marginal benefit to getting a visa even when one is not required: they pass muster with airlines that are reluctant to board foreigners holding one-way tickets. However, the other way to solve that possible check-in problem is just to buy a fully refundable return or onward air ticket -- right at the airport if necessary. And that particular hiccup doesn't seem to occur very often at least if the spouses are traveling together.

I happen to be an Italian citizen who's pretty familiar with this stuff. Who also happens to be married to a citizen of a Schengen visa waiver country.


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## Bevdeforges

OK - back when the Schengen rules for non-EU spouses first came up, the EU made a very specific point of stating that countries dealing with their own nationals and their non-EU spouses were NOT subject to the simplified process. Most of the other countries I've had to deal with require their own nationals to go through the whole visa process. Interesting to see that the Italians don't.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Italy quite sensibly figured out that making her own citizens' and their foreign spouses jump through extra hoops (that don't apply to any other EU citizens) was pointless, so Italy's ~2004 EU enabling legislation round included Italians too. There's a reference to all this at the Polizia di Stato's Web site (in Italian) if you really want the background.

Yes, it's good news. The _general_ attitude is acceptance of just about anything that will maintain Italy's population at about 60 million as long as there's preservation of Italian culture and language (and, for some, race and ethnicity, unfortunately). So if an Italian wants to marry a foreigner (and have children -- that'd be nice), no problem! Come on in. 

Interestingly Italy is hardly alone in the world. Japan, to pick another example, doesn't require foreign spouses with visa waiver citizenships to do anything in advance. They can just "show up" in Japan and immediately settle with their Japanese spouses with very little red tape. It's probably not a coincidence that both countries have rigorous civil registries (in which all marriages are registered) and highly restricted divorce. It takes about 3 years to divorce in Italy, and that's if the divorce is uncontested with an agreeable couple. Also, both countries have seriously low birth rates, so "supervised" immigration like "importing" foreign spouses is if not encouraged at least made very easy.

On edit: Singapore is another example I think. Spouses can just "show up" and establish residency with their partners without a visa (unless they need visas anyway).


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## Tam869

BBCWatcher said:


> EU treaty rights only require legal entry. Citizens from visa waiver countries can already enter the Schengen Area without a visa. They are permitted to do so to join their EU citizen family members just as they are for tourism. Citizens of non-visa waiver countries require visas in order to enter legally.
> 
> The few exceptions occur when EU treaty rights are not being exercised and the applicable government imposes additional requirements on its own citizens. That's the case with U.K. citizens trying to bring their foreign spouses into the U.K. In such circumstances they are not exercising EU treaty rights, and the U.K. can require its own citizens in their own country to jump through extra hoops if it wishes. The U.K. government does indeed do that. The Italian government, however, does not. (And the U.K. government cannot require EU/EEA/Swiss citizens who are not U.K. citizens and who are exercising their EU treaty rights to do anything more than follow the EU treaty requirements which require legal entry only.)
> 
> 
> Correct but only if the country decides to require its own citizens to exceed EU treaty requirements. Fortunately Italy does not require its citizens to exceed EU treaty requirements when bringing foreign spouses to live in Italy, so Italians never have this problem (unlike U.K. citizens in the U.K.) (Although before anyone praises Italy _too much_, the U.K. recognizes same sex partnerships and Italy doesn't at the present time.)
> 
> Italian consulates can issue family visas to foreign spouses even if/when they're not required. They're not free, unfortunately. That said, I can think of one marginal benefit to getting a visa even when one is not required: they pass muster with airlines that are reluctant to board foreigners holding one-way tickets. However, the other way to solve that possible check-in problem is just to buy a fully refundable return or onward air ticket -- right at the airport if necessary. And that particular hiccup doesn't seem to occur very often at least if the spouses are traveling together.
> 
> I happen to be an Italian citizen who's pretty familiar with this stuff. Who also happens to be married to a citizen of a Schengen visa waiver country.


Hi 
Its been some years since these messages and I want to check that no changes have been made to Italian immigration law relating to non EU spouse. My husband is Nigerian and we are about to apply for a Schengen visa to enter Italy and will going down that residence route to be able to settle there long term. Is the process still the same? Are we better to apply for a spouse visa outside of the country first rather than the Schengen?
Any advise is greatly appreciated.


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## Bevdeforges

Although the procedure may still be the same, the safest thing would be to check with the Italian consulate in the country in which your husband is currently resident. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Citizens of Nigeria require visas to enter the Schengen Area for any purpose. There's no "better" here: your husband must apply for an Italian visa. I want to correct something, though: that visa should be free of charge for this specific purpose (co-residence in Italy with an EU/EEA spouse).


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## Tam869

My understanding is that non eu spouse of EU citizen does not require a visa its just a formality to ensure their are no hiccups in gaining entry?
We have been in Tanzania and the Italian embassy refused to accept his application because he is not resident here in Tanzania. This requires us to travel to Nigeria (costly and not so safe) to apply for the visa. The other schengen issuing embassies are following this advise of the Italian Embassy, but their is nothing in EU law or schengen guidelines to support this. 

Any advise on this please?


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## Bevdeforges

The non EU spouse of an EU national is supposed to be able to enter an EU country on a short-stay visa (which for some nationalities is nothing more than the Schengen "tourist" visa stamp in the passport on entry). They then will need to apply for a residence permit before the tourist visa expires (i.e. within 90 days).

It varies a bit by country, but the residence permit may require various documents, such as a birth certificate, proof of the validity of the marriage, and evidence that the EU national spouse is "settling" in the country in some recognized capacity (i.e. work, retirement, student, etc.). Just be advised that we've had several cases here of EU countries not accepting "job seekers" as "settled" residents of the country - really safest if the EU national has a job or other means of supporting the family.

If you want something in writing on this check here: Workers' and pensioners' EU family
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Tam869 said:


> My understanding is that non eu spouse of EU citizen does not require a visa its just a formality to ensure their are no hiccups in gaining entry?


Provided the non-EU citizen already independently enjoys visa waiver privileges (and has not had those privileges revoked). Examples include citizens of the U.S., Canada, Australia, Singapore.


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## yahya khan

BBCWatcher said:


> Provided the non-EU citizen already independently enjoys visa waiver privileges (and has not had those privileges revoked). Examples include citizens of the U.S., Canada, Australia, Singapore.


How long is the processing time of eu family permit to issue and if the eu family is pay text on licence of sailing things on beach or in town center and he paying text on thats licence which is 12 euro a months will that's satisfied eu person is self-employed and he can invite and stay with his family 
Any advise will be very thankfull


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## Bevdeforges

I'm not certain how it works in Germany, but generally to be "self employed" a person in Europe must be appropriately registered with the social insurance (and potentially VAT) agencies. Not familiar with the business registration process in Germany, but you could probably get information from the local Rathaus (town hall).
Cheers,
Bev


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## gpao

hi all 
i am tunisian i live in Tunisian my wife she is italian but she work in switzerland she have domicile there ,we want to do family renuion but the condition seems hard for switzerland. she still have a register resident in italy and i want to ask if we can apply for visa of family renuion in italy as long as she is a italian citizen and she have a register resident in italy .

any help will be great 
thank you all


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