# Best visa options advice



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Hello,

I have to say that you all on here are so amazing! To give your time to total strangers, but not just your time but honest, well thought out advice. I wish I was on your end of knowledge about immigration rules instead of mine...;-)

Ok so here is my details:
I am an American born and raised. I want to move to England with my fiancé, a British citizen. He meets the financial requirements and living accommodations with no problems. 

But here are the bad bits..
I have a not so pretty travel history between march 2018 and September 11 2020 and was refused entry into the UK September 15 2020. I was detained and sent back to the US. I asked the agent if I could pay for my flight, that if he let me have my phone I would do it in front of him but he said for me not to worry about it. I told him I had heard that it is really bad if someone was sent home paid for by the UK but he said don't worry we will get you the flight. Anyways so given that processing at this time is backlogged and that any application I do is not going to be straightforward I am hoping you guys could help me decide which visa I should apply for and the likelihood of getting approved and with the love of my life the fastest? Here is what I think my options are but am sure I don't have the facts totally straight.

A marriage visitor visa? Less expensive but can't settle in the UK. But what happens to people who plan on not living in the UK after getting married but circumstances change where they do need to settle in the UK?

A fiancé visa? Expensive and then have to pay close to the same again in 6 months?

A spouse visa? I have heard so many on here that say it is way better to get married outside the UK as in it costs less and saves time over a fiancé visa which I won't be able to work on as well. 

As far as my travel history I've not went past the 6 months other than this year with Covid but was granted extensions up to August 31 2020 but I made the mistake of not knowing about the not official but very frowned upon more than 180 days in the UK out of 12 months for both 2018 and 2019. I honestly didn't understand and if I could take it back I would. I have so many British friends that didn't know as well but still I should have made sure to know all the rules. 

Ok so that is everything I can think of and appreciate any and all advice.


----------



## clever-octopus (May 17, 2015)

Marriage visit visa is for those who do not _immediately_ plan to immigrate. If you got married in the UK on a marriage visit visa, it's OK if your circumstances change and you decide after all to settle in the UK, but you would have to leave and make a spouse visa application from the USA.

You probably want to look at either a fiancé visa, or a spouse visa. There are pros and cons to every scenario. The biggest problem with a spouse visa is that you would need to find a country to get married in whilst respecting any quarantine rules in place. 

Being refused entry to the UK once is actually not that big a deal. You do have to declare it on a visa application, but it won't itself be cause to refuse you a visa to the UK based on your relationship with a British citizen.

If I were in your position I would go for a fiancé visa. It is an extra expense, and you cannot work until you are married and apply for Further Leave, but it's probably the most straightforward option. Normally I'd advise marrying in the US, but your British partner will not be allowed to enter due to travel restrictions and the fact that he's not yet your immediate family.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

clever-octopus Thank you so much from me and all you have shared your time with.

Ok I actually had some of it right and i see what you are saying about the fiancé visa. 

A few other things I am struggling with is that we actually tried for him to fly out here last week but they would not let him board the plane. Again I guess either we really aren't being thorough enough or it is just that so many things are changing so rapidly but we thought since his ESTA was approved within an hour that we were good to go. So I booked and paid for the flight, hotel and chapel in vegas and a rental car which most were non refundable, not to mention my original flight to UK but lessons learned although all that has dipped into our savings and I am worried about the cost of about $3000 if I get an attorney for the fiancé visa then not being able to work for six months and then another 2000 for the spouse. 

Please understand I am not trying to side step the rules but was just thinking the visitor visa is so much less money and seems to be along the same lines of a fiancé visa. Are they both similar? And do they both require all the same documentation and time frame to process? I think one needs biometrics? We were laughing the other day we talking about the biometrics...we said couldn't they just get a copy from the ones they took at Heathrow when they detained me? tee hee hee JK


----------



## clever-octopus (May 17, 2015)

UK citizens (or foreign travellers who have been in the UK within the last 14 days) are still banned from travelling to the USA. Yes, sorry to say but you are not being thorough enough if you didn't check this before you made nonrefundable purchases, the travel ban has been in place for half a year. You really don't need an attorney for a fiancé visa, it would be a waste of money.

A marriage visit visa doesn't require nearly as much information/documentation as a fiancé visa, and yes it's a lot less expensive for just the visa fee, but there is some hassle in having to fly back and forth with quarantine rules in place. The marriage visit visa and fiancé visa are not similar except for the fact that they both allow you to have a wedding performed in the UK. One is an immigrant visa and the other is not. I don't think you're trying to sidestep the rules but there is no perfect solution.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unless the 'circumstances' change and would qualify someone to remain in the UK under, say, The Hague Human Rights Law, a Marriage Visitor visa would NOT allow you to remain in the UK.
In other words, the circumstances would have to be really, really exceptional.
You are an American, so I cannot think of a reason why you would be allowed to remain in the UK on a marriage visitor visa.

Your choices to marry and live in the UK are:

- get married in a third country and apply for a spouse vis
- obtain a fiance visa, marry in the UK and then apply for a spouse visa.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

> UK citizens (or foreign travellers who have been in the UK within the last 14 days) are still banned from travelling to the USA. Yes, sorry to say but you are not being thorough enough if you didn't check this before you made nonrefundable purchases, the travel ban has been in place for half a year.


Yes I found how long the ban has been in place after the fact. We obviously got a lot too excited. 



> You really don't need an attorney for a fiancé visa, it would be a waste of money.


I was thinking I would need an attorney because of the refused entry due to reading too many horror stories online but I am so relieved after your reply about that.



> A marriage visit visa doesn't require nearly as much information/documentation as a fiancé visa, and yes it's a lot less expensive for just the visa fee, but there is some hassle in having to fly back and forth with quarantine rules in place. The marriage visit visa and fiancé visa are not similar except for the fact that they both allow you to have a wedding performed in the UK. One is an immigrant visa and the other is not. I don't think you're trying to sidestep the rules but there is no perfect solution.


You are so right that there is no perfect one solution. I was looking on the website for the biometrics and it looks like the location in 

LA is not offering the majority of services. It says you have to purchase either bronze, silver or gold package. Do both visas require biometrics?


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Hi and thank you for your time in replying. I appreciate it. 



Crawford said:


> Unless the 'circumstances' change and would qualify someone to remain in the UK under, say, The Hague Human Rights Law, a Marriage Visitor visa would NOT allow you to remain in the UK.
> In other words, the circumstances would have to be really, really exceptional.
> You are an American, so I cannot think of a reason why you would be allowed to remain in the UK on a marriage visitor visa.


No no I was not thinking I could remain there. I know I would have to come back to the US to apply for a spouse visa. I do understand what you are saying.



> Your choices to marry and live in the UK are:
> 
> - get married in a third country and apply for a spouse vis
> - obtain a fiance visa, marry in the UK and then apply for a spouse visa.


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

All visas require biometrics.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

I think you have been given some really good advice to go for the fiancé visa as opposed to the marriage visit visa. 
I know from our own experience (husband turned away at the border), that you need to prove you have a life to go back to in the US if you are just visiting the UK, no matter what type of visit.
As you have already experienced, if they have doubt that you intend to return, they can refuse entry. 
It would be far better to acknowledge that you do want to stay, and apply for a fiancé visa. You can explain periods of separation at this time due to Covid, and if you can’t afford legal help, then write a detailed letter explaining why you were refused entry, and how you have addressed the reasons why you were refused (should be stated in the letter they gave you). Also emphasise the genuine nature of your relationship with plenty of submitted evidence, and your desire to have married in the US if it wasn’t for the Covid restrictions. State your intention to settle in the UK, and your reasons.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> I think you have been given some really good advice to go for the fiancé visa as opposed to the marriage visit visa.
> I know from our own experience (husband turned away at the border), that you need to prove you have a life to go back to in the US if you are just visiting the UK, no matter what type of visit.
> As you have already experienced, if they have doubt that you intend to return, they can refuse entry.
> It would be far better to acknowledge that you do want to stay, and apply for a fiancé visa. You can explain periods of separation at this time due to Covid, and if you can’t afford legal help, then write a detailed letter explaining why you were refused entry, and how you have addressed the reasons why you were refused (should be stated in the letter they gave you). Also emphasise the genuine nature of your relationship with plenty of submitted evidence, and your desire to have married in the US if it wasn’t for the Covid restrictions. State your intention to settle in the UK, and your reasons.


Hi Carla,
Thank you for your reply. Do you mean that after your husband had an approved marriage visit visa he was turned away at the border?


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

No, he was my husband at the time.
The issue with applying for any type of visit visa, is that the onus is on you to prove that you have the intention or returning.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Hi everyone,

This has been the wildest rollercoaster ride I ever been on. 
After over hours and days of sitting at this computer desperate to figure out what to do, I feel the best might be the marriage visitor visa for the following reasons:
1. uk.gov says processing time is approx 3 weeks and the fiancé visa it says 12 weeks from outside the UK. With my not straightforward application and Covid I know it could take months either way but at least the starting point is so much less time.
2. The cost starts at 100 pounds verses 1900 for fiancé visa combined with the healthcare surcharge. Biometrics is the same either way. I haven't really complained about all the money I have already wasted on non refundables between when I was still there in the UK and since I have been here in the US but its been around $2500 in flights, hotels, wedding chapel in Vegas and the 3 days my fiancé took off work to come here and get married in Vegas when he was denied boarding (he was so devastated it took a few days for us to get over being that close to being able to get married) All of which were our own bad decisions but nonetheless, we would be spending most of our only savings we have left if we do the fiancé visa. 
3. I know clever octopus told me the refused entry and not paying my flight home is not a definite refused visa and I believe him but that little voice in me keeps saying what if? I will have spent the money for fiancé visa and if refused I would have to put any future applications on my credit cards which is not smart. 

I am so scared no matter what we do because this is one the most life defining situations I have been through. All my dreams are at at risk. I am over 50 years old and have worked very hard to get so close to living my dream.
Ok...enough blubbering... 
I hope what I am saying makes sense and if not please tell me!!!!!! And I hope you all know how much I appreciate your time spent on me. And if I haven't asked too much already I have a few questions about the marriage visitor application but wanted to wait in case I have offended anyone on here.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

You fully understand that with the Marriage Visitor visa you will need to leave UK at end of visa period; then you will need to apply from the US for a spouse visa.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> You fully understand that with the Marriage Visitor visa you will need to leave UK at end of visa period; then you will need to apply from the US for a spouse visa.


Hi,

Yes I do and that is a huge downside. I will need to get back here sooner than when the 6 months is up anyways so I can work and make some money to build my savings back up. But at least we will finally be married and I can finish packing all my things at my friends house. I was in the process of moving in with my fiancé when all this happened and feel bad leaving my things not taken care of. I had to leave my car and everything because they wouldn't let me go take care of it.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes I do and that is a huge downside. I will need to get back here sooner than when the 6 months is up anyways so I can work and make some money to build my savings back up. But at least we will finally be married and I can finish packing all my things at my friends house. I was in the process of moving in with my fiancé when all this happened and feel bad leaving my things not taken care of. I had to leave my car and everything because they wouldn't let me go take care of it.


OK.... well have a happy and joyful wedding.... something to look forward to.

Questions? let us know.....


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> OK.... well have a happy and joyful wedding.... something to look forward to.
> 
> Questions? let us know.....


Hi everyone,

I do have a few questions:
Is showing my finances necessary when I have $2500 being gifted to me from my family and my fiancé's bank statements will be sent showing he makes 4000 GPB per month to be able to sponsor me? I haven't worked since 2018 and only have about $1900 in savings. I will have to say I am currently unemployed and won't be able to work until I get back from the 6 months in the UK. I have a small party service business that has been my source of income in the past and am going to start up again here in the US after the wedding that could show my ties to the US But there really isn't a place for it in the employment questions so should I talk about it in my letter?

My parents own my house outright and I pay them monthly payments so I don't think that will be a credible way to show strong ties in the US either. Since I made the mistake of spending too much time in the UK for the past 2 years I know they are going to need overwhelming evidence that I will come back here after the wedding. So do you know what type of things will have the the best impact on convincing them? 

And lastly I have the confirmation for the venue being booked for the wedding but as far as giving notice, it looks like there are 2 different time frames of 28 or 70 days and am wondering if we will need to wait 70 days since I can't be there in person?

Thanks again and hope you are all well x


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

I think there are two issues to consider:

1) You have to show you have sufficient funds for all of the expenses involved, travel, wedding, living expenses etc. You can be gifted money or rely on your fiancé’s income, but you have to provide evidence in detail - wage slips, bank statement, letter from person gifting, letter from person supporting etc. 
The longer you intend to stay in the country, the more money you will need.

2) You have to show you intend to leave. Points that will be problematic are that you have no job to return to, and that you appear to have no financial ties to the US. I realise that your family is there, but this in itself isn’t enough. Do you have any financial commitments in the US? 

I realise that it is more expensive to apply for a fiancé visa initially, but if you really add up the expenses that you will need to prove for the visit visa - it is probably more expensive than you think. 
If your fiancé is prepared to support you for 6 months on a marriage visit visa, why not ask him to fund the fiancé visa? (which you might have a greater chance of success with.)


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> I think there are two issues to consider:
> 
> 1) You have to show you have sufficient funds for all of the expenses involved, travel, wedding, living expenses etc. You can be gifted money or rely on your fiancé’s income, but you have to provide evidence in detail - wage slips, bank statement, letter from person gifting, letter from person supporting etc.
> The longer you intend to stay in the country, the more money you will need.
> ...


Thank you so much for your reply. 
The problem I have is I have been been in the UK from March 2018 to September 2020 so I haven't worked in all that time. 
I have a birthday party service business that has been my source of income for 2 years prior to March 2018 that I am going to start doing again when I return home after the wedding. 
So if I include that in my application it would not offer any proof of current employment. I get all of my customers from marketing my services on facebook and I have had no ongoing activity from 2018 forward. I am able to pick it up and start networking to get work but can also stop taking bookings when I want to take time off. 
I know the simpler I keep everything the better because I already have bad decisions to account for. So I was thinking it is better to face judgement of being unemployed than try to convince them of all the parties I will be booking when I am back here next year. 
Can I post my letter here and maybe you could tell me your opinion?


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Also I do own a house that my parents bought and I pay them payments. My daughter and 2 grandchildren have been living in my house while I was away and will continue to live there no matter where we end up living after the wedding.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

_The problem I have is I have been been in the UK from March 2018 to September 2020 _


Hold on.... are you saying you stayed in the UK *continuously* from March 2018 to September 2020 i.e 2 years overstay........ !! And then when you tried to re-enter again in September 2020 you were refused entry ...?


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> _The problem I have is I have been been in the UK from March 2018 to September 2020 _
> 
> 
> Hold on.... are you saying you stayed in the UK *continuously* from March 2018 to September 2020 i.e 2 years overstay........ !! And then when you tried to re-enter again in September 2020 you were refused entry ...?


No No I never stayed more than 6 months except this year due to covid but i was given the extensions from the home office.

I just didn't know about the 180 day in 12 months rule. So 2018 and 2019 I spent more than 180 days in the uk


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

I know it is all on me not doing the right thing and finding out all of the rules. 

I am 54 years old and only got a passport in 2015 and went to England for a week. Then worked and saved a bunch of money so I could take some time off and go back because it was so awesome to be around people that aren't totally self absorbed as they are in California. 

I was there with some really good friends of mine that have a huge house and invited me to stay there and travel with them. We went to south Africa, Italy, France and Brazil besides all around England. 

I was just having fun and not paying attention and then I met my fiance in January this year. And that is what brings me here.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

I think everybody has made mistakes and decisions that looking back, we wish we hadn’t.
It’s completely possible to fix what has happened and come to the UK again, providing you take the right visa path.
Your previous refusal (plus the extended stays in the UK) show you did not present as a genuine visitor, but rather as somebody setting up ties in the UK. 
(You could remove that problem by applying for the fiancé visa or getting married abroad and applying for spouse visa.)
Maybe you could get a short phone consultation with a reputable immigration lawyer in the UK? It could save you a lot of further upset.


----------



## clever-octopus (May 17, 2015)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> I just didn't know about the 180 day in 12 months rule. So 2018 and 2019 I spent more than 180 days in the uk


It's not actually a rule. If you got admitted with a second 6-month entry clearance stamp, you were perfectly within your rights to stay for 6 months.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Maybe I am worried unnecessarily about trying for the fiancé visa. 
If the marriage visit visa requires more documentation and is less likely to be approved with my circumstances then I am going to try for the fiancé visa. I agree it is way more streamlined than having to come back here to apply for the next visa. 

Thanks again to all who has replied on here. You guys are great people and I appreciate you.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

clever-octopus said:


> It's not actually a rule. If you got admitted with a second 6-month entry clearance stamp, you were perfectly within your rights to stay for 6 months.


While I agree with the above, the OP looks as though they spent way over what was reasonably allowed for the period March 2018 to September 2020, and the fact she was refused entry in September 2020 indicates she has been 'flagged' as a potential over stay risk. Being put back onto a plane to your home country is not taken lightly. 
(I don't understand about Covid resulting in your staying over 6 months - plenty of flights to the US for US citizens the whole time). The OP obviously does not have strong ties to the US (albeit a daughter and grandchildren).

Unless the OP has solid proof of potential wedding (bookings, venues, shown they have contacted a registrar etc) applying for a visitor visa might indicate trying for another 6 months of living in the UK on visitor status.

Going for a fiance visa at least shows financial commitment for obtaining such a visa - again proof of arranging a wedding is required.

The fiance visa requires a lot of documentation showing a genuine relationship and, of course, financial and accommodation requirements.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> I am going to try for the fiancé visa. I agree it is way more streamlined than having to come back here to apply for the next visa.
> .


and don’t forget that it would be a good idea to write a letter explaining the circumstances of the refused entry (from your point of view) the reasons why you wanted to come to the UK at that time and how you didn’t intend to overstay and the ways in which you have addressed the reasons why you were refused entry. (applying for the correct leave to enter.) 
You can then explain what you want to do now, how you intend to live together in the UK etc and your future plans.

You will also need evidence to support the genuine nature of your relationship.
I believe that a letter from your fiancé would also be helpful. 

Refused entry only means you couldn’t come in that time. It isn’t something to gloss over and ignore, best to fully acknowledge it and make a really sound application this time.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

I am trying to get better at posting clear and organized information so bear with me...

Here is what I have as evidence no matter which visa:

• A valid passport
• A house I have been payments for since Jan 2017 (albeit my sister owns the house, we could put it in my name but that will take more time) I have a monthly payment contract signed by both of us that I will submit. 
• A signed letter from my sister and cashiers check for $2500 as a wedding gift to pay for my travel.
• Sponsorship letter from my fiancé that includes his feelings about our relationship and plans of our future together. 
• His bank statements showing weekly deposits from his employer totaling GPB 4000 per month.
• A letter from his employer confirming he is employed there, length of employment (4 years), hourly pay rate and average weekly hours worked and a personal reference of his outstanding character.
• A letter from his landlord welcoming me to stay with him while I am there for the wedding. The letter gives information such as it is a 5 bedroom, 4 bathroom house that is occupied by the owner (his landlord) and my fiancé.
• A copy of his rental agreement.
• My letter sharing my feelings about our relationship, time lines of when we met, how often we spent time together, our plans for our future, explanation of my unemployed status and details of what work I will be returning to and when I will be returning to work, explanation of my recent travel history, sincere apology for my irresponsible decisions, details of my family ties in the US and that his only brother lives permanently an hour drive from my house.
• Two pages of Whatsapp and iMessage conversations spread over the time since we met. Several where he calls me by my name with his last name 2 months into knowing each other so they can see this marriage is not made up to get me back there. Several time stamped photos of us together. 
• A confirmation of deposit paid and tentative date for the wedding from an authorized wedding venue location.
• An email showing my inquiry regarding giving notice.

That is my list of what I have to submit so if there are holes or questionable aspects please share your thoughts as the consensus on here seems to be go for the fiancé visa with what I have to submit if I am likely to get an approval. But I am posting everything that I have already put together for the visit visa so I am not saying that is what I plan to apply for but just everything I have gathered ok?

Thanks again, as always to you all x


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

You must provide payslips for whichever category you are applying under (Cat A or B)

Details about your house in US are irrelevant as is the gift from your sister.

Don't go overboard on your letter - they want facts of how you met, your history and what you intend to do in the UK.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

If you don’t mind me asking, (but no worries if you would rather not share):
What were the reasons given in the letter for your refusal in September? 
Also, why did you leave in Sep and then return within a couple of weeks?


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

carla32 said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, (but no worries if you would rather not share):
> What were the reasons given in the letter for your refusal in September?
> Also, why did you leave in Sep and then return within a couple of weeks?


As I understand it, the OP did not receive a refusal in September, she was not allowed to re-enter the UK and put on a plane back to the US.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

Sorry I wasn’t being clear - I meant what were the reasons given in the letter that the border force gave in Sep when they refused entry in the UK - (they have to inform you why you are being refused entry.)


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> You must provide payslips for whichever category you are applying under (Cat A or B)
> 
> Details about your house in US are irrelevant as is the gift from your sister.
> 
> Don't go overboard on your letter - they want facts of how you met, your history and what you intend to do in the UK.


He is self employed so he doesn't get regular pay slips. Again this might be another reason we should do the visit one because if I remember right for the fiancé visa you must supply considerably more in-depth financial records and I think that means waiting for his accountant to supply documents etc. I don't mean to keep going back when most everyone on here says the fiancé visa is my best option. A very smart guy said...there is never a "perfect" solution and a perfect life would be boring hehe


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, (but no worries if you would rather not share):
> What were the reasons given in the letter for your refusal in September?
> Also, why did you leave in Sep and then return within a couple of weeks?


God no I don't mind sharing. I have not attached pics so it took me ages but here is what they gave me.

https://www.expatforum.com/expats/attachment.php?attachmentid=93014&stc=1&d=1602301665

https://www.expatforum.com/expats/attachment.php?attachmentid=93016&stc=1&d=1602301665


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> Sorry I wasn’t being clear - I meant what were the reasons given in the letter that the border force gave in Sep when they refused entry in the UK - (they have to inform you why you are being refused entry.)


As far as to why I flew home and back...The home office had given everyone extensions until Aug 31 due to Covid. Yes there were many flights all during the lockdown etc. At first when I looked at them they were running 1000 one way then the prices did come down after a few months. Home office had said they would be sending a follow up email in the beginning of August with further advice. As it got near the last week of August and no email I emailed them asking for an update. At that time the virus was raging in California so while yes I was able to return home, I didn't know I was doing anything wrong by leaving before 6 months staying out for a few weeks and coming back, so I thought why risk Covid exposure if I didn't have to. Being daft me I thought we would fly to Dublin for the weekend and I would get a stamp for 3 months coming back to England...WRONG!! I got stamped in Dublin but not at Gatwick. Of course now I know about the whole Common Area. By this time it was the 29th of August and still no reply from Home Office. I definitely was no going to overstay my extension and was starting to panic a bit so I decided to fly home for 5 days and come back. My president was not making the right decisions to keep people safe and yours was so I wanted to stay here just until things calmed down. Anyways upon arriving back at Heathrow the officer set me aside for 2 hours until they came and took me to the holding room etc.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

And here is what I wrote in my letter.

I would also like to express my sincere apology for my lack of due diligence in doing thorough research of how much time I was allowed to spend while I was exploring all of the wonders in England. It was irresponsible on my part and being refused entry and sent back home was the most traumatizing experience I have ever endured. I know these are just words but I swear on everything I hold dear, nothing like that will EVER happen again. I was totally humiliated being escorted to the plane and even more so when I had to call my family to come back to collect me at the airport. Please believe I had no bad intentions by staying in England more than allowed. It was the first time I had done any substantial international traveling and I got caught up in all the excitement and time got away from me.

In closing, I would like to thank you for your time and understanding in reviewing my application for a marriage visitor visa and hope I have supplied you with all of the documentation and assurance of my integrity that will conclude in your granting my visa.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks for posting - but do you have another page that explains why they then refused you entry? It should have been given to you at the end of the 2 hours.
Just trying to figure out if they accused you of overstaying or whether they were just not satisfied that you were entering as a visitor.

I understand your confusion about the Covid extension. You can say that you were not fully aware of the implications of travelling to Dublin and back again, but you were trying to do the right thing (not overstay) and how you didn’t feel safe returning to the US at that time, now you realise your error etc, and you are now applying through the correct route etc.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> And here is what I wrote in my letter.
> 
> I would also like to express my sincere apology for my lack of due diligence in doing thorough research of how much time I was allowed to spend while I was exploring all of the wonders in England. It was irresponsible on my part and being refused entry and sent back home was the most traumatizing experience I have ever endured. I know these are just words but I swear on everything I hold dear, nothing like that will EVER happen again. I was totally humiliated being escorted to the plane and even more so when I had to call my family to come back to collect me at the airport. Please believe I had no bad intentions by staying in England more than allowed. It was the first time I had done any substantial international traveling and I got caught up in all the excitement and time got away from me.
> 
> In closing, I would like to thank you for your time and understanding in reviewing my application for a marriage visitor visa and hope I have supplied you with all of the documentation and assurance of my integrity that will conclude in your granting my visa.


I believe you, and I believe that you have a genuine relationship, and you deserve to follow your dreams and have the life you want - but you don’t need to write this type of emotional letter, you only need to explain why you made the choices you did, and why you weren’t trying to break the rules - and how you will now follow them. The person reviewing your application is looking to tick the boxes that enable you to lawfully enter the UK. If you miss a box, they can’t fix that for you, the onus is on you to provide the evidence.

You only need the correct evidence to support your application.

In terms of a marriage visit visa, you will have to provide evidence that you will return, and your future intentions for where you will live.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> Thanks for posting - but do you have another page that explains why they then refused you entry? It should have been given to you at the end of the 2 hours.
> Just trying to figure out if they accused you of overstaying or whether they were just not satisfied that you were entering as a visitor.
> 
> I understand your confusion about the Covid extension. You can say that you were not fully aware of the implications of travelling to Dublin and back again, but you were trying to do the right thing (not overstay) and how you didn’t feel safe returning to the US at that time, now you realise your error etc, and you are now applying through the correct route etc.


They gave me this one and the only other one they gave me is 2 copies of an email they sent to Virgin Atlantic ordering them to put me on the plane back to California. After the first 2 hours sitting in the general immigration area 2 different officers came and got me and said they were told to search my luggage. After that they took my fingerprints and photo and put me in the holding room until 3am when they took me to interview mw. A few hours later he came back and told me he tried his best for me but the head officer decided to send me home. The next day at 2:45 pm I was escorted to the plane.

https://www.expatforum.com/expats/attachment.php?attachmentid=93018&stc=1&d=1602306526

https://www.expatforum.com/expats/attachment.php?attachmentid=93020&stc=1&d=1602306526


https://www.expatforum.com/expats/attachment.php?attachmentid=93022&stc=1&d=1602306526


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

Deleted


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> I believe you, and I believe that you have a genuine relationship, and you deserve to follow your dreams and have the life you want - but you don’t need to write this type of emotional letter, you only need to explain why you made the choices you did, and why you weren’t trying to break the rules - and how you will now follow them. The person reviewing your application is looking to tick the boxes that enable you to lawfully enter the UK. If you miss a box, they can’t fix that for you, the onus is on you to provide the evidence.
> 
> You only need the correct evidence to support your application.
> 
> In terms of a marriage visit visa, you will have to provide evidence that you will return, and your future intentions for where you will live.


Ok thank you for letting me know. Is this better?

I would also like to express my sincere apology for staying more time than I was allowed. I know it might be hard to believe but I honestly didn’t know about the 180 days per 12 month rule. Before coming for the first long stay in March 2018 I did spend a fair amount of time on the UK.GOV website reading about how things work but I didn’t see that part. If only the guidelines had said Visitor Visas are given 6 months upon arrival AND ONLY SIX MONTHS in any 12 month period, none of this would have ever happened. I have never been one to risk doing things that might lead to trouble. I now know the rules the rules and am applying for entry the correct way.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> And here is what I wrote in my letter.
> 
> I would also like to express my sincere apology for my lack of due diligence in doing thorough research of how much time I was allowed to spend while I was exploring all of the wonders in England. It was irresponsible on my part and being refused entry and sent back home was the most traumatizing experience I have ever endured. I know these are just words but I swear on everything I hold dear, nothing like that will EVER happen again. I was totally humiliated being escorted to the plane and even more so when I had to call my family to come back to collect me at the airport. Please believe I had no bad intentions by staying in England more than allowed. It was the first time I had done any substantial international traveling and I got caught up in all the excitement and time got away from me.
> 
> In closing, I would like to thank you for your time and understanding in reviewing my application for a marriage visitor visa and hope I have supplied you with all of the documentation and assurance of my integrity that will conclude in your granting my visa.


so now you've gone back to the Marriage Visitor Visa?


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, so it seems as if they just weren’t satisfied that you were a visitor.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> He is self employed so he doesn't get regular pay slips. Again this might be another reason we should do the visit one because if I remember right for the fiancé visa you must supply considerably more in-depth financial records and I think that means waiting for his accountant to supply documents etc. I don't mean to keep going back when most everyone on here says the fiancé visa is my best option. A very smart guy said...there is never a "perfect" solution and a perfect life would be boring hehe


Yes, you will have to produce all relevant documentation for self employment when you apply for the spouse visa. The documentation for self employment is much more comprehensive than for being employed.

In an earlier post you said he was going to produce his employment letter from his employer. Now you say he is self employed - so which is it?


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> so now you've gone back to the Marriage Visitor Visa?


No I was showing Carla what I had written in the letter about being refused entry. I am going to go with the fiancé visa and keep my fingers crossed as it will be my one shot at this until I can work for a while and afford to try again if it is refused.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> Yes, you will have to produce all relevant documentation for self employment when you apply for the spouse visa. The documentation for self employment is much more comprehensive than for being employed.
> 
> In an earlier post you said he was going to produce his employment letter from his employer. Now you say he is self employed - so which is it?


He is a lorry driver for a transport/fuels delivery company but works on a contract. He doesn't get paid holidays or sick leave etc but he has worked for them for 4 years now on a contract. He pays his own taxes etc.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> They gave me this one and the only other one they gave me is 2 copies of an email they sent to Virgin Atlantic ordering them to put me on the plane back to California. After the first 2 hours sitting in the general immigration area 2 different officers came and got me and said they were told to search my luggage. After that they took my fingerprints and photo and put me in the holding room until 3am when they took me to interview mw. A few hours later he came back and told me he tried his best for me but the head officer decided to send me home. The next day at 2:45 pm I was escorted to the plane.
> 
> https://www.expatforum.com/expats/attachment.php?attachmentid=93018&stc=1&d=1602306526
> 
> ...


Interesting reason on the final page:

Y_ou are a young person and not in the care of a parent or guardian...... ?????
_


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> Interesting reason on the final page:
> 
> Y_ou are a young person and not in the care of a parent or guardian...... ?????
> _


I am sorry I don't understand?
Definitely not a young person or have a guardian lol


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> He is a lorry driver for a transport/fuels delivery company but works on a contract. He doesn't get paid holidays or sick leave etc but he has worked for them for 4 years now on a contract. He pays his own taxes etc.


Did this make sense as to him being self employed? His boss was happy to write the letter as he has went through marrying a foreigner and knows all the hoops.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> Ok, so it seems as if they just weren’t satisfied that you were a visitor.


That is what I took from it but still don't understand why he wouldn't let me pay for my flight home. I was adamant about it but he just told me not to worry about it that they would take care of it. I have had a few people tell me that he knew he was doing me wrong by that but I can't understand why he would.


----------



## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

This story just gets better and better. Something doesn´t add up.


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> He is a lorry driver for a transport/fuels delivery company but works on a contract. He doesn't get paid holidays or sick leave etc but he has worked for them for 4 years now on a contract. He pays his own taxes etc.


If he pays his own taxes then he is self-employed. As already stated, this is a more complicated visa category.


----------



## cowin (Sep 30, 2020)

I dont understand why you want to set up in the UK. You need a hell of a lot of money now form the first visa to the settlement. Its an expensive country to live and the UKs going downhill fast.
America has everything you could possibly need and space to move around.
Get married in Turkey, its dead cheap, you just need a fixer who know what documents to get and where you need to go to get them and meet the requirements. It cost me $800 (for everything) to marry an Iranian there, then just get the marriage book notorised and apositlled.

The visa then entry was only £600 and £50 for the conversion fee as you have to pay in dollars. Now its thousands unless your a refugee. I give my right arm to get an American passport!!


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> I would also like to express my sincere apology for staying more time than I was allowed. I know it might be hard to believe but I honestly didn’t know about the 180 days per 12 month rule. Before coming for the first long stay in March 2018 I did spend a fair amount of time on the UK.GOV website reading about how things work but I didn’t see that part. If only the guidelines had said Visitor Visas are given 6 months upon arrival AND ONLY SIX MONTHS in any 12 month period, none of this would have ever happened. I have never been one to risk doing things that might lead to trouble. I now know the rules the rules and am applying for entry the correct way.


Did you actually overstay? 
Don’t apologise if you didn’t. They made an assumption based on the time that you had spent in the UK, that you are likely to overstay. This doesn’t mean you intended to, or that you will.

I think you might be misunderstanding why they refused you entry - it wasn’t to do with you getting muddled over the dates, or not checking properly. It was because you didn’t satisfy them that you were just visiting.

I really think you need some legal help to make a visa application. If you can’t afford it, there are reputable companies that will just give you a brief advice session, which would be really worth doing. 
It seems like, with a bit of effort and assistance, you actually qualify easily for a fiancé visa - You have a genuine relationship, your fiancé has the ability to meet the financial requirements, and you haven’t overstayed - these are all really positive points.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Catalunya22 said:


> This story just gets better and better. Something doesn´t add up.


Hello,

I am sorry but what are you talking about?


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

nyclon said:


> If he pays his own taxes then he is self-employed. As already stated, this is a more complicated visa category.


OMG really? Because he is self employed it complicates it even more than it already is? Tons of people are self employed. I am starting to to think we should go live somewhere else in Europe or here in the US but nit in California!!


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

cowin said:


> I dont understand why you want to set up in the UK. You need a hell of a lot of money now form the first visa to the settlement. Its an expensive country to live and the UKs going downhill fast.
> America has everything you could possibly need and space to move around.
> Get married in Turkey, its dead cheap, you just need a fixer who know what documents to get and where you need to go to get them and meet the requirements. It cost me $800 (for everything) to marry an Iranian there, then just get the marriage book notorised and apositlled.
> 
> The visa then entry was only £600 and £50 for the conversion fee as you have to pay in dollars. Now its thousands unless your a refugee. I give my right arm to get an American passport!!


We talked about getting married in Denmark. I have heard the is a little less red tape than England but I have the venue booked in the UK. 

As far as life in the US....I used to be a very patriotic person and was proud to be an American but every year is just keeps getting more and more like a circus act rather than a government and this election is worse than Trump/Clinton (the anti christ) I believe England has most things figured out pretty well. Nothing is perfect and there are problems everywhere but America is broken and it doesn't matter who is president it will still be broken. 

Thats my 2 cents anyways ;-)


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> Did you actually overstay?
> Don’t apologise if you didn’t. They made an assumption based on the time that you had spent in the UK, that you are likely to overstay. This doesn’t mean you intended to, or that you will.
> 
> I think you might be misunderstanding why they refused you entry - it wasn’t to do with you getting muddled over the dates, or not checking properly. It was because you didn’t satisfy them that you were just visiting.
> ...


No I didn't ever overstay but was making it my home through frequent visits. I get the feeling that day was " let's mess with Americans day" because there were 6 Americans in there with me and only 6 Americans. I remember wondering if that is a normal day as I thought there would be other nationalities in there. 

I have had a consult with an attorney. She said she would do a fiancé visa for me for GBP 2500-3000. She also made it seem like I would be lucky to get approved.


----------



## carla32 (Mar 5, 2013)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> No I didn't ever overstay but was making it my home through frequent visits. I get the feeling that day was " let's mess with Americans day" because there were 6 Americans in there with me and only 6 Americans. I remember wondering if that is a normal day as I thought there would be other nationalities in there.
> 
> I have had a consult with an attorney. She said she would do a fiancé visa for me for GBP 2500-3000. She also made it seem like I would be lucky to get approved.


Ok - don’t say that you were trying to make the UK your home - that is exactly why they refused you! You didn’t have the correct visa to do that.

Look in terms of legal help - that is a very high fee, that doesn’t seem reasonable, plus it seems odd that she then implied you would be lucky to get one! Steer clear.
You don’t need an actual attorney, you can consult with an immigration advice service in the UK. 

https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser

Try this one: 

https://iasservices.org.uk/


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> OMG really? Because he is self employed it complicates it even more than it already is? Tons of people are self employed. I am starting to to think we should go live somewhere else in Europe or here in the US but nit in California!!


You should read, _carefully_, Sections 7 and 9 of the following document to fully understand what documents you have to present to show self employment income:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigra...endix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

It is a lot.......


----------



## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> OMG really? Because he is self employed it complicates it even more than it already is? Tons of people are self employed. I am starting to to think we should go live somewhere else in Europe or here in the US but nit in California!!


Don't expect things to be easier in another country. Immigration is tricky business. Us in the developed world often just don't realise how tricky, since we are used to being able to visit with getting a visa at the border without much hassle in many places. Having to apply for something and not qualifying outright often comes like a shock to the system.

Unless you manage to move before 31st December 2020, moving to elsewhere in Europe (maybe apart from the Republic of Ireland) will probably be a lot harder because the Withdrawal Agreement time period will end.

Also, getting a spouse visa to the US is also not exactly a walk in the park. There are also requirements regarding finances, accommodation, etc. I hear processing times are 12-18 months? Somebody correct me please.


----------



## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am sorry but what are you talking about?


It just gets more complicated the more you say.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

carla32 said:


> Ok - don’t say that you were trying to make the UK your home - that is exactly why they refused you! You didn’t have the correct visa to do that.
> 
> Look in terms of legal help - that is a very high fee, that doesn’t seem reasonable, plus it seems odd that she then implied you would be lucky to get one! Steer clear.
> You don’t need an actual attorney, you can consult with an immigration advice service in the UK.
> ...


Hi Carla
Thanks for sending those links. I have sent an email to 2 places and will update the progress here.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

ALKB said:


> Don't expect things to be easier in another country. Immigration is tricky business. Us in the developed world often just don't realise how tricky, since we are used to being able to visit with getting a visa at the border without much hassle in many places. Having to apply for something and not qualifying outright often comes like a shock to the system.
> 
> Unless you manage to move before 31st December 2020, moving to elsewhere in Europe (maybe apart from the Republic of Ireland) will probably be a lot harder because the Withdrawal Agreement time period will end.
> 
> Also, getting a spouse visa to the US is also not exactly a walk in the park. There are also requirements regarding finances, accommodation, etc. I hear processing times are 12-18 months? Somebody correct me please.


Yes is sure is a very complicated process. And it is easy to forget how good we have it. I have heard about some major changes coming soon. Price increases etc. I would love to have my situation sorted before end of year but there is really no way to know what will happen until I apply. I think I will have everything I need within a week from now.


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Crawford said:


> You should read, _carefully_, Sections 7 and 9 of the following document to fully understand what documents you have to present to show self employment income:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigra...endix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence
> 
> It is a lot.......


Thanks for the link. I read it....and then had to read it twice more. I am going to talk to the advisor I contacted from the link Carla sent to see what we need to have document wise.


----------



## jkmaindiratta (Oct 3, 2019)

Hi, Nice inputs. Great knowledgeable people we have here. God bless you all


----------



## JULIAGOULIA (Oct 6, 2020)

Hi all you immigration master minds ;-)

Quick question
The question that asks if I have been issued a visa in the past 10 years...
being American I don't apply so would it be no?

Thank you as always


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

JULIAGOULIA said:


> Hi all you immigration master minds ;-)
> 
> Quick question
> The question that asks if I have been issued a visa in the past 10 years...
> ...


If you have not been issued a visa in past 10 years the answer is no.


----------

