# What would it take to make you leave Spain



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Following on from comments about burglaries, and not letting affect life in Spain to the extent of leaving,I was wondering what WOULD it take to make you leave Spain?
Perhaps:
Stopping yearly increases in UK state pension
Stopping free health care
Contributing to health care-eg pay for food in hospital
Large Increases to IBI,income tax, community fees?
Needing care when older and more frail, and not being able to afford it
Family wanting you to return
Will we be left with a very rich expat group who will stay here no matter what?


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

A divorce. 
That's about it.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Nothing, other than Canary Island Independence.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> Following on from comments about burglaries, and not letting affect life in Spain to the extent of leaving,I was wondering what WOULD it take to make you leave Spain?
> Perhaps:
> Stopping yearly increases in UK state pension
> Stopping free health care
> ...


None of the above would have the slightest affect on me. My family have property here and will eventually come to live here. They visit almost every month and are here now for ten days, staying in their own house a five minute drive away.. We are quite capable of providing for ourselves should we need care when we are older. We would never allow a comparatively trivial thing like a burglary to disturb our enjoyment of life here. If you were burgled in Barnsley,would you flee to Benidorm?
We are not rich but then from your previous posts you seem to think anyone not on the most basic income is 'rich'.
If you are unhappy here then the solution for you is obvious.
But...think for a moment: nearly all those things you are fearful of could just as well happen in the UK if the Conservatives win in 2015.

You'll still be miserable but under dreary grey skies and in freezing cold. 
We have no intention whatsoever of leaving Spain, a country which is now our home and where we are very settled and happy.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Other than the UK government deciding not to pay pensions to anyone no longer resident in UK, - nothing


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Other than the UK government deciding not to pay pensions to anyone no longer resident in UK, - nothing


Very unlikely! After all, we won't be using the NHS or other Social Services for the elderly so it's worth the measly SRP to keep us away from the UK.

TBH, losing that miserable amount would be more than compensated for by the savings in rent we'll be enjoying when in five years or so we move into a smaller place.

We said Goodbye this afternoon to a friend who is obliged to return to the UK after fourteen years in Spain during which time she has worked until the past few months. She has a chronic disease and because she has used up all her savings she is reluctantly going back to the UK where she hopes to get treatment to recover, build herself up, start work again with the aim of returning to Spain as soon as possible.

In the unimaginable eventuality that we had to leave Spain which in our case would be only if the Government decided to expel all foreigners we'd move on but not to the UK, most probably France.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Very unlikely! After all, we won't be using the NHS or other Social Services for the elderly so it's worth the measly SRP to keep us away from the UK.
> 
> TBH, losing that miserable amount would be more than compensated for by the savings in rent we'll be enjoying when in five years or so we move into a smaller place.
> 
> ...


Unlike you, I'm not wealthy enough to not need my OAP especially when we have the suegra who gets no pension at all living with us.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My untimely demise and those left behind ignoring my pleas to have my ashes launched into space....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Unlike you, I'm not wealthy enough to not need my OAP especially when we have the suegra who gets no pension at all living with us.


We're not wealthy!! We are certainly not poor but we aren't wealthy. I'd describe us as comfortable. Our biggest expense is our house but like you we live modestly. No flash cars, we don't hang around bars -Sandra doesn't drink alcohol and I'm restricted to a glass of wine a day on doctor's orders - and we enjoy doing things that don't cost much money if any, like walking, being with friends, reading, playing with the dogs...

But we do both have an income, that's true, and only ourselves and the dogs to support.. I spent decades of my life in a job I didn't particularly enjoy, which in the end I could do standing on my head and was therefore not very challenging, and put up with it because I knew I would have a decent pension at the end of it. Sandra's income apart from the SRP is interest from money invested from the sale of commercial properties. We all know about interest rates...

So not wealthy but not poor and very content with our lives here. I think we are very fortunate in being able to live out our lives here in Spain. I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather be.

Off topic: any suggestions as to how to cure our dogs of excessive flatulence? This is a serious question. If Jimenato reads this he may remember this little problem of Azor's....


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> We're not wealthy!! We are certainly not poor but we aren't wealthy. I'd describe us as comfortable. Our biggest expense is our house but like you we live modestly. No flash cars, we don't hang around bars -Sandra doesn't drink alcohol and I'm restricted to a glass of wine a day on doctor's orders - and we enjoy doing things that don't cost much money if any, like walking, being with friends, reading, playing with the dogs...
> 
> But we do both have an income, that's true, and only ourselves and the dogs to support.. I spent decades of my life in a job I didn't particularly enjoy, which in the end I could do standing on my head and was therefore not very challenging, and put up with it because I knew I would have a decent pension at the end of it. Sandra's income apart from the SRP is interest from money invested from the sale of commercial properties. We all know about interest rates...
> 
> ...



 As a regular poster, you should know you will get a better response if you start a new thread......please, I want to see what title you will choose for your thread!!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Off topic: any suggestions as to how to cure our dogs of excessive flatulence? This is a serious question. If Jimenato reads this he may remember this little problem of Azor's....


three websites that seem to offer some insight to the problems:

Flatulence in Dogs - Dealing With Gassy Dogs

Windy Problems in Dogs Veterinary Information on Dogs you can use for your pet from Samantha Coe vetbase.co.uk

Flatulence in Dogs | Canine Flatulence Causes & Treatment

Why do you consider this to be off-topic? IMO if the problem gets bad enough, it might well make you leave Spain!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

brocher said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> As a regular poster, you should know you will get a better response if you start a new thread......please, I want to see what title you will choose for your thread!!!!


Well if the smell does force Mary and Sandra to leave Spain it would have to be "Gone with the Wind"


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## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> We're not wealthy!! We are certainly not poor but we aren't wealthy. I'd describe us as comfortable. Our biggest expense is our house but like you we live modestly. No flash cars, we don't hang around bars -Sandra doesn't drink alcohol and I'm restricted to a glass of wine a day on doctor's orders - and we enjoy doing things that don't cost much money if any, like walking, being with friends, reading, playing with the dogs...
> 
> But we do both have an income, that's true, and only ourselves and the dogs to support.. I spent decades of my life in a job I didn't particularly enjoy, which in the end I could do standing on my head and was therefore not very challenging, and put up with it because I knew I would have a decent pension at the end of it. Sandra's income apart from the SRP is interest from money invested from the sale of commercial properties. We all know about interest rates...
> 
> ...


What sort of dog food do you use? Dog food with cereals and/or vegetables can make for windy dogs.A mix of Rice and chicken might help.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

A huge increase in flatulant dogs might well make me leave Spain


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

passiflora said:


> What sort of dog food do you use? Dog food with cereals and/or vegetables can make for windy dogs.A mix of Rice and chicken might help.


Rice and chicken or pasta, beef and carrots, all home cooked.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Well if the smell does force Mary and Sandra to leave Spain it would have to be "Gone with the Wind"




Seriously, one of the reasons we left Prague was because of Azor's digestive problems as food in general was of very poor quality. Sandra had problems as she is vegetarian- problems in getting quality fruit and veg, not digestive problems

I've just returnee from walking Xena, it's now 10.10 pm and I'm about to have a swim.
Couldn't do that in Rochdale....

Viva España!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Seriously, one of the reasons we left Prague was because of Azor's digestive problems as food in general was of very poor quality. Sandra had problems as she is vegetarian- problems in getting quality fruit and veg, not digestive problems
> 
> I've just returnee from walking Xena, it's now 10.10 pm and I'm about to have a swim.
> Couldn't do that in Rochdale....
> ...


but you could croak your way through "Sally" and everyone would love you...


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

developed into a much more informative thread


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Other than the UK government deciding not to pay pensions to anyone no longer resident in UK, - nothing


A minor obstacle . You only need to 'appear' to have returned.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Following on from comments about burglaries, and not letting affect life in Spain to the extent of leaving,I was wondering what WOULD it take to make you leave Spain?
> Perhaps:
> Stopping yearly increases in UK state pension
> Stopping free health care
> ...


Perhaps if we were both unemployed, or if the government (Spanish as we have both worked in Spain) decides to cut pensions. However, the situation would have to be so bad we were living in the streets, and with a family here of 40+ members I can't see that happening.
If a move was made it would be unlikely that the country to move to would be the UK


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Becoming too settled, at home, 'integrated'. I like being a foreigner in a foreign land.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If people really are so worried about the items on the OP's list they either didn't plan before they came or are so concerned about things which may never happen or could happen in the UK that they cannot possibly be enjoying their lives in Spain. The solution surely can only be to return to the UK.

To cuts in nearly every area of public spending, including the welfare budget. To changes in entitlement to retirement benefits. To a health system which seems to kill as much as cure, which leaves elderly patients so dehydrated that they drink water from flower vases...To a country where violent street crime is on the increase...To a country where one day with temperatures above 20C constitutes summer..

OK, the UK isn't all that bad, far from it. But we need a sense of proportion here. It seems some elderly immigrants get a masochistic pleasure out of worrying about the 'what ifs?' while the rest of us get on with enjoying our lives here in Spain.

Now I'm off to do my stint at the perrera. I could die in a traffic accident, be bitten by a dog, die of heatstroke, drive off the narrow mountain path to the perrera and go down a 100 m drop. A meteorite could land on my head.
And so on and so forth.


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> If people really are so worried about the items on the OP's list they either didn't plan before they came or are so concerned about things which may never happen or could happen in the UK that they cannot possibly be enjoying their lives in Spain. The solution surely can only be to return to the UK.
> 
> To cuts in nearly every area of public spending, including the welfare budget. To changes in entitlement to retirement benefits. To a health system which seems to kill as much as cure, which leaves elderly patients so dehydrated that they drink water from flower vases...To a country where violent street crime is on the increase...To a country where one day with temperatures above 20C constitutes summer..
> 
> ...


But you do get a lot from the UK who like to moan.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> It seems some elderly immigrants get a masochistic pleasure out of worrying about the 'what ifs?' while the rest of us get on with enjoying our lives here in Spain.


Right on the money Mary! When all these people lived in Britain I'm sure they didn't spend their lives continually analysing everything.....they just got on and lived their lives.

Here, so many are completely out of their depth and with nothing to do. So they conduct an ongoing analysis of anything and everything around them! It's Professional Expat Syndrome!

If you feel the need to surround yourself with English speakers, or you feel that you need to change everything about your personality to be able to fit in with the locals.....then you shouldn't have come here! You're in the wrong place.

You could have saved yourself a lot of time, money, and stress by staying in Britain and investing in a sunbed! 
In our case, we feel we were _born_ in the wrong place......and coming to Spain in 2005 just enabled us to add the missing piece of the puzzle to our lives.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

XTreme said:


> Right on the money Mary! When all these people lived in Britain I'm sure they didn't spend their lives continually analysing everything.....they just got on and lived their lives.
> 
> Here, so many are completely out of their depth and with nothing to do. So they conduct an ongoing analysis of anything and everything around them! It's Professional Expat Syndrome!
> 
> ...


Many are also poorly informed and depend a lot on hearsay. They are unable to read decent newspapers and are dependent upon cheap yellow press for their news just as they were in UK. The more erudite tend to ascertain facts before getting uptight about something, that is if it is worth getting uptight about. 

As Mary says, those who properly planned and prepared are more content and do not panic over petty little scaremongering rumours often set up and disseminated by businesses in advertorials designed to sell their wares often based on pseudo-surveys highly biased towards getting answers that support what they want to sell.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

IMHO

I suspect that many complained in the UK and "could not wait" to leave..... It is, IMHO, and I am not there yet LOL BUT, It is all about a state of mind, its about becoming an immigrant in a foreign country not an Ex Pat, its accepting that Spain is not another county in England. To be honest, as a fairly new to this game, these threads are endless and they all start of the same. How about another thread which I am going to start now


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

We have been informed that it might not be possible to continue my handicapped child's education past the age of 13 in the public school system. I then would be FORCED to teach my child at home.

Home schooling would be legal in Castilla-La Mancha in this situation, but I would rather return to the USA, where federal law guarantees an education until the age of 21 for students with special needs.

The educators here are excellent, but the schools are suffering from lack of funds.




extranjero said:


> Following on from comments about burglaries, and not letting affect life in Spain to the extent of leaving,I was wondering what WOULD it take to make you leave Spain?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

extranjero said:


> Following on from comments about burglaries, and not letting affect life in Spain to the extent of leaving,I was wondering what WOULD it take to make you leave Spain?
> Perhaps:
> Stopping yearly increases in UK state pension
> Stopping free health care
> ...


If I worried about the future I wouldn't enjoy the present. You can only worry about the future when it is a reality. Nobody really knows until the time comes, then you can make a decision.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

would this make you leave?

it has certainly annoyed the guy who started the FB thread.....


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> would this make you leave?
> 
> it has certainly annoyed the guy who started the FB thread.....


... can't read it, far too small. Do you have a link?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... can't read it, far too small. Do you have a link?


I did a screenshot from FB this morning

let me have a play

any better? - or maybe this


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

It's about a pub that's opened in Moraira High Street called The Red Lion and some chap is getting upset about it. 

I don't see the problem myself. In our small town in the Somerset we had a restaurant called Mon Plaisir, another called The Moguls and another called Il Giardino. Nobody seemed too bothered about those.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> It's about a pub that's opened in Moraira High Street called The Red Lion and some chap is getting upset about it.
> 
> I don't see the problem myself. In our small town in the Somerset we had a restaurant called Mon Plaisir, another called The Moguls and another called Il Giardino. Nobody seemed too bothered about those.


exactly - & I don't see anyone complaining about the restaurants named WOK or the Ghurka Palace..... even in Spain...


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Good lord. Maybe they should come up here where there are very few Brits and complain about all the places with English names! 

Or... Maybe they could do me a favor and just dedicate their time to correcting people who use the Saxon genitive improperly in the names of their establishments.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Brangus said:


> We have been informed that it might not be possible to continue my handicapped child's education past the age of 13 in the public school system. I then would be FORCED to teach my child at home.
> 
> Home schooling would be legal in Castilla-La Mancha in this situation, but I would rather return to the USA, where federal law guarantees an education until the age of 21 for students with special needs.
> 
> The educators here are excellent, but the schools are suffering from lack of funds.



I am so confused. This invalidates everything I have learned up until now, in which the state HAS TO guarantee education for students until they are 16 years of age. 

If the student is unable to leave his or her home or the hospital, the region sends a teacher to their home/hospital bed. If the student has SEVERE disabilities, there are even a few specially adapted schools in the region. Other kids are mainstreamed into the school system.

I know Castilla-La Mancha is hurting for money, but I thought the guarantee of education was part of the LOE!! (It's 10 am, I can't remember which part of the law it is.) 

So... I don't buy the answer that you have been given.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

XTreme said:


> Here, so many are completely out of their depth and with nothing to do. So they conduct an ongoing analysis of anything and everything around them! It's Professional Expat Syndrome!
> 
> .


Close, but really it's called the Professional Immigrant Syndrome Symptom. Quite often you will find the word talking placed in front of it but incorrectly spelt so you get, rather amusingly I found, Taking the Professional Immigrant Syndrome Symptom.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

thrax said:


> Close, but really it's called the Professional Immigrant Syndrome Symptom. Quite often you will find the word talking placed in front of it but incorrectly spelt so you get, rather amusingly I found, Taking the Professional Immigrant Syndrome Symptom.


Thing is thrax, I had to clean it up a bit before I posted! 

If I'd unleashed the full speech of how I perceive Brits in Spain to be then I'd end up getting nuked again by Lynn the headmistress! 

I can charm my way round Jo, and just baffle Strav due to his limited intellect......but the headmistress is a tough nut to crack! 

And you know the irony.....I was the one who gave her the link to this place! These damn Brit women take a perverse delight in tormenting me!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

XTreme said:


> Thing is thrax, I had to clean it up a bit before I posted!
> 
> If I'd unleashed the full speech of how I perceive Brits in Spain to be then I'd end up getting nuked again by Lynn the headmistress!
> 
> ...


:boxing::fencing::whip:


honestly - I think you ought to just







.... you're


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Thing is thrax, I had to clean it up a bit before I posted!
> 
> If I'd unleashed the full speech of how I perceive Brits in Spain to be then I'd end up getting nuked again by Lynn the headmistress!
> 
> ...


Ive spoken to you on the phone .... I know what Xtreme unleashed is like .

Anyway, thats all rich coming from someone who spends their time talking to animals because you cant get any sense out of the locals 

In essence with comments made in the thread though, I'd agree .... there is a contingent in the Oliva area that always employ Brit workers, spend a lot of time in "The Sportsman" watching British TV and playing darts, and just generally mixing with Brits all the time. They often use the local Brit supermarket to buy their imported Brit foods about which they complain bitterly because they are expensive!

Ive made a point of never going in the Sportsman and avoiding Brit bars whenever possible.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Ive spoken to you on the phone .... I know what Xtreme unleashed is like .
> 
> Anyway, thats all rich coming from someone who spends their time talking to animals because you cant get any sense out of the locals


Bloody Fiesta on the barrio outside the house this weekend.....the Spanish version of "Agadoo" at 4AM to look forward to!

The annual Fiestas been pretty mundane since 2007.....we had a nice gypsy stabbing to liven things up that year!

It'll just be the usual dragging of unconscious drunken ***** off the road and onto the pavement first thing in the morning!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Bloody Fiesta on the barrio outside the house this weekend.....the Spanish version of "Agadoo" at 4AM to look forward to!
> 
> The annual Fiestas been pretty mundane since 2007.....we had a nice gypsy stabbing to liven things up that year!
> 
> It'll just be the usual dragging of unconscious drunken ***** off the road and onto the pavement first thing in the morning!


Is that one of the locals you cant get any sense out of.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> *I've made a point of *never going in the Sportsman and *avoiding Brit* bar*s whenever possible.*


I make a point of avoiding Brits whenever possible, too


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> I make a point of avoiding Brits whenever possible, too


You don't avoid them here though  Would you avoid us if we came to live in your village?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I make a point of avoiding Brits whenever possible, too


The feeling is entirely mutual Baldi


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jimenato said:


> The feeling is entirely mutual Baldi


I'm with you as well!

The only problem is that I look too Northern European to blend into the background......German or Dutch apparently! 

The wife is darker.....so when she sticks sunglasses on she can get away with it! But I may as well have a Dunce's hat on my head!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I make a point of avoiding Brits whenever possible, too


Why? You are British yourself...should I therefore avoid you?

We really should get over ourselves. We are immigrants, foreigners, outsiders, however we may like to think we are not. That is how Spanish people see us although like most sensible people of all nationalities,they see us as humans with qualities they either like or dislike.


Some of us get drunk, eat burgers, sport tattoos and shaven heads, like to spend all day in British bars, drink tea, read The Sun or The Daily Mail,plaster themselves in sun cream,lie on the beach all day, live in British comunities...so bloody what?
Who decided how we should live here? Where are these 'rules' written in tablets of stone?


Now I don't do any of those things because they are not to my taste. But I believe that those that do, providing they observe the laws and keep any antisocial behaviour away from others, should not be subjected to patronising judgments from those of us who prefer a different lifestyle. There is no superiority in choosing some flyblown hamlet over Benidorm as your place of residence in Spain. Because you choose to eat some smelly goats or sheeps cheese over Cheddar from Morrisons Gib does not make you 'integrated'. You are a foreigner regardless of where you live and what you eat or how fluent your Spanish may be..

I'm often amazed at some of the reactions to posts here. The ubersensitive whinge when I express my political views in a forthright manner yet seemingly don't give a toss at posts which racially -yes, racially -abuse their fellow countrymen and women for the perfectly legitimate way they choose to live in Spain. Substitute 'Jew' or 'blacks' for 'Brits'....see how it reads.

For the record: I have British friends here who are educated, well-travelled and cultured. I enjoy their company. Most have lived in other countries all over the world before settling in Spain. No way would I avoid them. But I can think of a few Spaniards I would cross the street in our village to avoid. The 'gardener' who ripped me off springs to mind.

Spaniards don't get borm with halos. Not all Brits are drunken morons.
We should learn from the Spanish who seem infinitely more tolerant than we interlopers in their country.
Viva y deja vivir.....


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

In a perfect world you'd be right Mary! But we don't live in a perfect world.

And unfortunately when you have Brits not paying outstanding bills to Spanish, behaving in an arrogant and superior manner to them, and generally creating problems, then it reflects badly on all of us.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

XTreme said:


> In a perfect world you'd be right Mary! But we don't live in a perfect world.
> 
> And unfortunately when you have Brits not paying outstanding bills to Spanish, behaving in an arrogant and superior manner to them, and generally creating problems, then it reflects badly on all of us.


And there are no Spaniards who don't pay bills to British people? No arrogant Spaniards? Is it untrue that gender violence is more of a problem in Spain than in the UK? Do all Spaniards in the UK -and there are many now - behave like perfect ambassadors for their country? Should I now think of all Spanish people as lazy, corrupt people who take advantage of we Brits because my local garage and my gardener ripped me off? 

There are it is said over a million Brits living in Spain. Of course you will find a percentage who break laws, cheat people, behave in an anti-social manner. But what percentage? One? Five? Ten? Where are all these people who seem to upset some of us so much? Not in my village. I've come across a party of loud, inebriated eldely Brits once in a restaurant in Estepona Port but tbh they were just having a good night out. I enjoyed my dinner...
Yes, once a group of repulsive Neandertals strayed into our village,got drunk, used foul language and vomited everywhere. Yes, they were disgusting. But that was a one-off and I've seen nothing like that since.

I cannot imagine how that reflected badly on me, Sandra or the few Brits who live here. Spanish people know better than to judge us all by the behaviour of a few.

No, sorry, X, I love you to bits, Baldy too, but we really are guilty of prejudice when we talk about our compatriots as if they are /other' in some way to we who have chosen a different way to live here.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> but we really are guilty of prejudice when we talk about our compatriots as if they are /other' in some way to we who have chosen a different way to live here.


Just because somebody has the same passport as me doesn't make them my "compatriot".....the only thing we share is a common native language.....nothing more than that. We're not joined at the hip or marooned on some desert island together.

On the point of certain Spanish traits by some.........yes, I find them very distasteful. But the difference is that we're guests in their country not the other way round. So it's a case of taking the bad with the good.

I can only speak from my experience of living in a very rural backwater which is like the land that time forgot. Around 10K people....everybody knows everybody or is related to somebody.....no English spoken anywhere.

As I've been here a long time people know me.....so when something kicks off in a shop or even Police related business involving British people then I get called in to deal with it because I'm the only foreigner here who can communicate to a reasonable level.

What have I been called into? Disturbances in shops and offices, burglaries, fullscale brawls, and even _really_ serious criminal offences. 
What were the reason for these? Usually it's desperate people doing desperate things because they never should have come to a place like this. 

The only things I've ever had stolen from me was not done by Spanish, or even Gitanos, but by Brits. Despite the fact they only make up less than 1% of the population.

I'll accept anybody for _who_ they are.....irrespective of colour or nationality. Hell.....I'm one of the few people that can communicate with, and even influence, the Gitanos.
But I won't accept ignorant, arrogant assclowns.......and my experience is that Brits have cornered the market on this one. Dutch, Germans, Belgians, French.......no problem at all......but they're not out of their depth and desperate.

Look at some of the ludicrous ideas about moving to Spain that people have when they come on here! Plus some of the insane business ideas that people run past me.....recording studios in caves, car washes in deserts, importing perishable foods that nobody wants etc.

I can only speak from my personal experience......and apart from a very small minority, it invariably ends in a trainwreck! 
I'm not prejudiced against Brits......I'm just prejudiced against arrogance and stupidity.........and in that field (though it pains me to say) Brits are the world leaders!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

XTreme said:


> Just because somebody has the same passport as me doesn't make them my "compatriot".....the only thing we share is a common native language.....nothing more than that. We're not joined at the hip or marooned on some desert island together.
> 
> On the point of certain Spanish traits by some.........yes, I find them very distasteful. But the difference is that we're guests in their country not the other way round. So it's a case of taking the bad with the good.
> 
> ...


A lot of what you say is true but it could also be said of other nationalities abroad. 
And again I'd say it is a small minority who behave like that. I've heard complaints about the behaviour of the French tourists in North Africa, about Dutch and Germans in Greece, about Russians in Prague....

Yes, I agree that there are losers and eejits who come here with ludicrous plans. I've said that on this Forum and been complained about.... But again, a small minority who usually ****** off back to the UK.

As I said in my other post, these horrible and/or silly people are a tiny minority of us, fortunately.
And yes, like it or not they are your and my compatriots *because* they share the same passport as us. They are fellow Brits, like it or not.
Now I don't like it and you don't...but that is no reason to castigate a whole nation, is it?

As I said: would anyone of us write:'I cross the street to avoid Jews, Nigerians, Afghans''.... Of course not.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

XTreme said:


> Just because somebody has the same passport as me doesn't make them my "compatriot".....the only thing we share is a common native language.....nothing more than that. We're not joined at the hip or marooned on some desert island together.
> 
> On the point of certain Spanish traits by some.........yes, I find them very distasteful. But the difference is that we're guests in their country not the other way round. So it's a case of taking the bad with the good.
> 
> ...


*Hear Hear.*

I have just taken the dogs for their lunchtime walk. I meat about a dozen Spaniards of varying ages (9 - 92) and exchanged greetings including the comments about the weather (it's hot 33 in the shade) with every one. I met just one Brit and despite greeting her (in Spanish, of course) she totally ignored me. Fine, I don't have a problem with that but if I were a Spaniard, how would I feel? I guess I would be fairly miffed that here I am offering a friendly greeting to a foreigner in our midst and how is my offer of welcome to my country treated? It might be fairly obvious to some (especially Spaniards) that I am not Spanish but to foreigners, with a fair number of fair-headed Spanish about in a population of just under 5,000, I could be one of that number.

We aren't treated like that and are made welcome because we are open, warm and friendly and we have no wish to be associated with the ignorant types, so we avoid them, hence my original statement that I avoid Brits. Those on here who are of a similar nature (open warm and friendly) are most welcome and I would happily introduce them to many of the Spanish that we know. Although we aren't the only Brits in the village, we are the ones who are often approached by the Spanish including the Guardia to help sort out problems caused by the ignorant few.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, once a group of repulsive Neandertals strayed into our village,got drunk, used foul language and vomited everywhere. Yes, they were disgusting. But that was a one-off and I've seen nothing like that since.
> 
> I cannot imagine how that reflected badly on me, Sandra or the few Brits who live here. Spanish people know better than to judge us all by the behaviour of a few.
> 
> No, sorry, X, I love you to bits, Baldy too, but we really are guilty of prejudice when we talk about our compatriots as if they are /other' in some way to we who have chosen a different way to live here.


We often forget that we are all ambassadors of the country of our nationality. How each of us acts, our attitudes and what we do reflects either well or badly on us and others from that country. I prefer not to be associated with those whose behaviour and attitudes are, at all, reprehensible. That has absolutely nothing to do with prejudice. I just have no desire for my and my family's reputations to be besmirched by association with that type of person so I avoid/don't seek them out unless I know them to be of a nature that we find acceptable - you can call it snobbery if you wish. 

Sue, I would definitely not avoid you!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> *Hear Hear.*


Well done Baldi - long time since I saw someone using the correct form of "hear, hear" rather than the more common "here, here". Long live the (correct) use of English!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> And again I'd say it is a small minority who behave like that.


We live in different places.....this is the sort of place where people come if they can't afford Torrevieja! We came here because we wanted a rural place to keep animals so our reasons were different.

The other thing is besides dealing with Brits on a personal level, I deal with them on a business level as well. So I get it from all angles!

One point I didn't mention is scrounging......this really gets to us. So much so that we changed our telephone number and only business clients have access to that.
I'm not a translator or interpreter......and I'm not running some Brit Expat Citizens Advice Bureau. 

Animals need us.....we're there. But as far as people go, they chose to come here......nobody forced them. _They_ made their heaven or _they_ made their hell......so they have to deal with the reality of their decisions. 
I've got a business to run (100 hours a week for 8 years) in order to feed my family and all our animals.......so I've got no time for other peoples' problems.

And once again, a Brit passport does not make me a compatriot.....it's just a bit of paper. I've never classed myself as a Brit......I was born Welsh....I'll die Welsh. Nothing will ever change that in my heart.....even if I took Spanish citizenship.

But one point here......just because somebody else may have been born in Wales doesn't make them any more worthy to me than somebody who was born in England. 
It's just a bit of paper for administrative purposes, same as a passport.....there is no emotional or moral obligation attached to it.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

XTreme said:


> Bloody Fiesta on the barrio outside the house this weekend.....the Spanish version of "Agadoo" at 4AM to look forward to!
> 
> The annual Fiestas been pretty mundane since 2007.....we had a nice gypsy stabbing to liven things up that year!
> 
> It'll just be the usual dragging of unconscious drunken ***** off the road and onto the pavement first thing in the morning!


This always makes me laugh !


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> This always makes me laugh !


And that's the Mayor Richard!

Someone broke the news to him that Franco was dead and he took it badly!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Well the only two people to commit drunken violence in my bar when I had it were Spanish. The only people to blatantly order drinks and then have no money were Spanish (many times). 

Recently in our equestrian fiesta a drunken and coked up Spanish horseman rode his beast through a tent full of people drinking and dancing, injuring several including breaking the arm of a Guardia. The crime such as there is is committed by the Spanish gitanos.

The Brits in contrast are fairly well behaved.

Based on my experience of where I live, according to some, I should be avoiding the Spanish.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

My experience of Brits when I have mixed with them here is they always seem to have a bad word to say about other Brits they know. Its almost like back stabbing, and then when they meet each other they are as nice a pie to each other. I usually say what I think, it doesnt always do me much good, but at least people know where they stand with me


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> My experience of Brits when I have mixed with them here is they always seem to have a bad word to say about other Brits they know. Its almost like back stabbing, and then when they meet each other they are as nice a pie to each other.


And they make up lies Jon! Ludicrous ones that go into Salvador Dali realms of surrealism!

Some years ago the rumour went round that I was banged up in Granada jail for nearly killing the donkey. Who apparently was then rehomed in Valencia! 

So god knows whose donkey I've been photographing since then! Or whose donkey you met when you came here!

I've always said if people want to make rumours up about me....then make it a good one! 

Something like I ******* ALL the checkout chicas at Carrefour Cartagena on the same day!
And that they all needed medical treatment for sore ******* afterwards. While I just drove off to Eroskis to repeat the process!

I'd be quite happy with that one! I think it covers all the bases!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I nicked this - it gets one thinking...



> I don't know whether it's England that brits "hate" (though hate is a too-strong term for it) or just other brits who don't fit into their "class". My current theory is that these "haters" see the brits around them as being a mirror of themselves and this doesn't fit in with their own self-image. It's the realisation that they are, essentially, the same as the individuals they scorn - if only acting a little differently - which is what bugs them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> We often forget that we are all ambassadors of the country of our nationality. How each of us acts, our attitudes and what we do reflects either well or badly on us and others from that country. I prefer not to be associated with those whose behaviour and attitudes are, at all, reprehensible. That has absolutely nothing to do with prejudice. I just have no desire for my and my family's reputations to be besmirched by association with that type of person so I avoid/don't seek them out unless I know them to be of a nature that we find acceptable - you can call it snobbery if you wish.
> 
> Sue, I would definitely not avoid you!


We are only ambassadors of our country if we appoint ourselves to be so. I personally do not consider myself as such. I behave in Spain, Prague, Germany exactly as I would in the UK.
I certainly do not imagine all Spaniards to be endowed with saint-like qualities. They are no better or worse than the rest of the human race. I'm sure some are quite disgusting specimens of humanity.
I would not judge Brits in Spain by the behaviour of a person who failed to acknowledge someone en passant. That's too petty and unimportant an action or lack thereof by which to judge anyone's behaviour, let alone the million of us who allegedly are here. For all you know that person could have returned from some fabulous act of charity. That Spanish person who smiled and greeted you could be on his way home to beat his wife.
There seems to be here in Spain a tendency to judge our fellow Brits, a tendency I have never come across in any other country where I have lived or spent long periods of time.
This is a role which is totally self-designated. Neither have I heard or read about the 'superiority' of certain parts of, say France or the Czech Republic over other parts. No-one thought of themselves as 'integrated'. Long-time residents simply got on with their lives as they would anywhere.
We have two British friends here, two elderly sisters who I would conjecture have lived here for longer than anyone on this Forum. They are in their late sixties and came as young children. They own a multi-language bookshop in Estepona and know anybody who is anybody in the town. One of them was a reporter for a local newspaper in the late sixties and early seventies - it goes without saying that they are virtually bilingual. I have never once heard from either of them any condemnation or criticism of their fellow Brits of the kind posted here.
I can only think it is because they are as truly integrated as anyone can possibly be and have absorbed the endearing Spanish tendency to live and let live.
That is one Spanish characteristic it seems we have yet to acquire.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Back on topic: I'm beginning to think that the only reason I'd consider leaving Spain is if a bunch of judgmental Brits came to live in our village and began to monitor my behaviour lest I became a dreadful ambassador for my country.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> And they make up lies Jon! Ludicrous ones that go into Salvador Dali realms of surrealism!
> 
> Some years ago the rumour went round that I was banged up in Granada jail for nearly killing the donkey. Who apparently was then rehomed in Valencia!
> 
> ...


I'm not sure you would manage that in Carrefour ... they are on roller skates and at your age you'd never catch them

I's not that I'm snobby or precious about mixing with Brits..... it's just that we've often used the phrase "if we wouldnt be interested in having them as friends in the UK, why would we do so here?" We choose our friends carefully and I think if truth be known for most of us we could count our REAL friends on one hand (Or maybe two) 

As regards leaving Spain ....... well, in effect we have. That (contrary to belief on here by some) was actually a lot down to health issues. The rest of it was probably just down to the same reasons we moved to Spain in the first place. For a bit of a different lifestyle. We've experienced that for 7 years or so and enjoyed it immensely. However, it's time to move on, to a different period of our lives and that will now be dedicated to travelling the world .... hopefully


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

XTreme said:


> And that's the Mayor Richard!
> 
> Someone broke the news to him that Franco was dead and he took it badly!


& there's me thinking that you'd told him the price!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> *Hear Hear.*
> 
> I have just taken the dogs for their lunchtime walk. I meat about a dozen Spaniards of varying ages (9 - 92) and exchanged greetings including the comments about the weather (it's hot 33 in the shade) with every one. I met just one Brit and despite greeting her (in Spanish, of course) she totally ignored me. Fine, I don't have a problem with that but if I were a Spaniard, how would I feel? I guess I would be fairly miffed that here I am offering a friendly greeting to a foreigner in our midst and how is my offer of welcome to my country treated? It might be fairly obvious to some (especially Spaniards) that I am not Spanish but to foreigners, with a fair number of fair-headed Spanish about in a population of just under 5,000, I could be one of that number.
> 
> .


Do you think that any person whether Spanish or of any nationality who would judge you and your family by the actions of one or two Brits is a person worth knowing? Wouldn't you think they were ignorant and prejudiced if they judged a million people by the behaviour of one, two or even twenty, though?
Why speak to a British person in Spanish? If I meet a Spanish person, I greet in Spanish, a British person in English and a German neighbour in German.
If I greet someone who fails to return my greeting, whatever their nationality, I just think 'ignorant sod' or 'must have had a quarrel with the oh'. I don't rush to judge a whole nation by that person's attitude.
Our village is a quarter the size of your small town so most people know each other and we often just nod as we pass.
Maybe that woman thought you were a sex pest on the prowl... After all, my mum told me never to speak to strange men in the street....


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## jules 123 (Apr 26, 2011)

XTreme said:


> And they make up lies Jon! Ludicrous ones that go into Salvador Dali realms of surrealism!
> 
> Some years ago the rumour went round that I was banged up in Granada jail for nearly killing the donkey. Who apparently was then rehomed in Valencia!
> 
> ...


The headmistress must be having a siesta ...


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jules 123 said:


> The headmistress must be having a siesta ...



Nah, it's all blanked out, I haven't got even the faintest notion what he is talking about


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Do you think that any person whether Spanish or of any nationality who would judge you and your family by the actions of one or two Brits is a person worth knowing? Wouldn't you think they were ignorant and prejudiced if they judged a million people by the behaviour of one, two or even twenty, though?
> Why speak to a British person in Spanish? If I meet a Spanish person, I greet in Spanish, a British person in English and a German neighbour in German.
> If I greet someone who fails to return my greeting, whatever their nationality, I just think 'ignorant sod' or 'must have had a quarrel with the oh'. I don't rush to judge a whole nation by that person's attitude.
> Our village is a quarter the size of your small town so most people know each other and we often just nod as we pass.
> Maybe that woman thought you were a sex pest on the prowl... After all, my mum told me never to speak to strange men in the street....


Hear Hear.

People have said before on here that you get back what you give out. 

There was a particularly annoying person used to come into the bar and insist on ordering his drinks and addressing everyone in Spanish even though he was Scottish. Everybody used to laugh at him and make '[email protected]' signs behind his back. The Spanish customers found it very amusing.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jules 123 said:


> The headmistress must be having a siesta ...


No....she's always on my case Jules!

So what happens if a husband and wife join up now with the names of R0ger and [email protected]?

Their username will be ***** and *****.......and something tells me that Mike Hunt and Wayne Kerr are not going to last long here either!


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## jules 123 (Apr 26, 2011)

XTreme said:


> No....she's always on my case Jules!
> 
> So what happens if a husband and wife join up now with the names of R0ger and [email protected]?
> 
> Their username will be ***** and *****.......and something tells me that Mike Hunt and Wayne Kerr are not going to last long here either!


I can still recall how shocked I was when I viewed the "Bulldog" site for the first time.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jules 123 said:


> I can still recall how shocked I was when I viewed the "Bulldog" site for the first time.


The good old days Jules!

A throwback to those halcyon days when forums had _personalities_ on them and a good community spirit where nobody took themselves too seriously!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Do you think that any person whether Spanish or of any nationality who would judge you and your family by the actions of one or two Brits is a person worth knowing? Wouldn't you think they were ignorant and prejudiced if they judged a million people by the behaviour of one, two or even twenty, though?
> Why speak to a British person in Spanish? If I meet a Spanish person, I greet in Spanish, a British person in English and a German neighbour in German.
> If I greet someone who fails to return my greeting, whatever their nationality, I just think 'ignorant sod' or 'must have had a quarrel with the oh'. I don't rush to judge a whole nation by that person's attitude.
> Our village is a quarter the size of your small town so most people know each other and we often just nod as we pass.
> Maybe that woman thought you were a sex pest on the prowl... After all, my mum told me never to speak to strange men in the street....


Not just one, there are a number of them about and the Spaniards complain about them that they are rude and ignorant.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Not just one, there are a number of them about and the Spaniards complain about them that they are rude and ignorant.


Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

My mum was a very quiet, unassuming person. She was quite shy and didn't feel comfortable with strangers. I can imagine that, had she come to live in Spain, she may well not have acknowledged 'strange' people until she felt more at home and at ease and got to know people.

Those Spaniards who judge non-communicative types are rather rude and ignorant themselves, aren't they? The non-communicative person may have very many valid reasons for being so.
And not all Spaniards are friendly. Some are, some aren't.

It just seems silly to me to write people off as rude and ignorant because they fail to say 'Good Morning' or whatever. It certainly is silly to then apply that judgment to over a million people.

I was brought up to be polite and always smile and greet people but then as a young girl/woman I was also told to be wary of strangers. Sometimes when I'm walking the dogs and I see a Spanish acquaintance who I know will stop me and natter away while the dogs are pulling and straining at the leash I pretend I haven't seen them, if they are hailing me from a distance. Rude and ignorant? Maybe. Making life easier for me, definitely.

Then there are the Spanish people I meet who allow their dogs off the lead in residential streets to crap, sniff and interfere with mine while they natter on their mobiles, metres away .
Definitely both rude and ignorant.


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Sue, I would definitely not avoid you!


Just remembered, I'm not a "thoroughbred" Brit anyway


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> The good old days Jules!
> 
> A throwback to those halcyon days when forums had _personalities_ on them and a good community spirit where nobody took themselves too seriously!


Amen to that

Bring back BulldogBytes!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Navas said:


> Just remembered, I'm not a "thoroughbred" Brit anyway


Who is?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

If this were to happen to me a few times I would think about going...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Not just one, there are a number of them about and the Spaniards complain about them that they are rude and ignorant.


Whilst walking with the dogs very early this morning we came across a Spanish guy with a large black dog off the lead. He stood and watched as the dog came over to Azor and Xena and stood watching as Sandra struggled to control Azor. 
After I directed a few well-chosen words his way he called the dog over but still did not put it on a lead. Our dogswere leashed and muzzled.
So...this Spanish person was rude, ignorant, inconsiderate and clearly not law-abiding. There are several like that in our village.
If Ididn't know better I'd advise law-abiding dog owners not to come to Spain. Spaniards are all like that....


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Spaniards are all like that....


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

My sister has a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Its the mildest of animals. She always keeps it on a lead when she walks it, yet other owners (West Wales) let theirs off, even though there is a local law stating dogs on leads.

Consequently the other dogs run up to hers and nip at it. She still doesnt let it off the lead because she knows the mayhem that would ensue if she did. There would be a lot of dead dogs, and she would be to blame for it. Welsh dog owners are all like that


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

aren't dog owners fined for walking dogs unleashed ?? or is there a double standard here? ie Spanish owners free to do what they want vs non Spanish owners ??
I am surprised also to hear all the limitations regarding types of dogs immigrants are allowed to bring while Spanish can get whichever breed it seems including pitbulls (hate those). true or false ?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thomas541 said:


> aren't dog owners fined for walking dogs unleashed ?? or is there a double standard here? ie Spanish owners free to do what they want vs non Spanish owners ??
> I am surprised also to hear all the limitations regarding types of dogs immigrants are allowed to bring while Spanish can get whichever breed it seems including pitbulls (hate those). true or false ?


it's allowed in some areas

there are no limitations as to breeds you can bring in - but they would have to be registered as required


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Welsh dog owners are all like that


Damn right! Then we burn your holiday homes right after that just for the hell of it!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

XTreme said:


> Damn right! Then we burn your holiday homes right after that just for the hell of it!


especially in Gwynedd. They burned two at the other end of the village where I lived, but I never had any trouble.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I've thinking, perhaps free beer in the Cape Verde Isles


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


>


That comment should be taken with the rest of my poet and therefore will clearly be seen as ironic.....
Did you not notice that my penultimate sentence began..If I didn't know better...

It was a tongue-in-cheek response to Baldy's post....

Let's keep a sense of humour....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thomas541 said:


> aren't dog owners fined for walking dogs unleashed ?? or is there a double standard here? ie Spanish owners free to do what they want vs non Spanish owners ??
> I am surprised also to hear all the limitations regarding types of dogs immigrants are allowed to bring while Spanish can get whichever breed it seems including pitbulls (hate those). true or false ?


False.

Yes, it is the law that dogs should be leashed and dogs of some breeds and over 25kilos in weight should be muzzled.

This law is broken by all nationalities, not just Spaniards.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, it is the law that dogs should be leashed and dogs of some breeds and over 25kilos in weight should be muzzled.


 Could you clarify this for me. Do all dogs over 25 kilos have to be muzzled? Or just certain breeds that weigh more than 25 kilos?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Damn right! Then we burn your holiday homes right after that just for the hell of it!





mrypg9 said:


> False.
> 
> Yes, it is the law that dogs should be leashed and dogs of some breeds and over 25kilos in weight should be muzzled.
> 
> This law is broken by all nationalities, not just Spaniards.


You are also not supposed to walk your dog on most beaches, but thats ignored big time. They seem to think its OK to do it "out of season" (So the poop is there waiting for the kiddies when they dig their sandcastles in the summer)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

thomas541 said:


> aren't dog owners fined for walking dogs unleashed ?? or is there a double standard here? ie Spanish owners free to do what they want vs non Spanish owners ??
> I am surprised also to hear all the limitations regarding types of dogs immigrants are allowed to bring while Spanish can get whichever breed it seems including pitbulls (hate those). true or false ?


It's nothing to do with immigrants vs Spanish.
Spain is run by its town halls and they are the ones who issue laws about dogs.
Generally speaking dogs are not allowed off the lead in urban areas, but there may well be areas where they are allowed off the lead in certain timetables. They are not usually allowed on beaches, but in Cantabria for example, at least in some beaches, they are.
There may be different rules according to the different town halls.
Here's an article about it
La complicada tarea de pasear a un perro (suelto) en España: de Madrid a León, pasando por Vigo | SrPerro.com, la guía para animales urbanos.
There are also laws about dogs on the "dangerous" dogs list and big dogs.

So, what was this thread about???


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Most dogs I know take their owners for a walk. Occasionally when I'm out walking on my own a dog meets me, walks with me then after I go home, he goes home. I guess we enjoy each others company!


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

In the Cadiz area nobody, least of all the police, bother about the weight. I have seen little dogs and big ones with the nose thing, but equally I see large pooches without. There are at least two put bulls around with really gentle owners and their pooches are a delight. 
I do think it depends on which area you choose to live.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Just remembered that my husband was playing ball with our labrador in the retiro Madrid park last week and the police said that the dog should only be off the leash between 10pm and 8am.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> Just remembered that my husband was playing ball with our labrador in the retiro Madrid park last week and the police said that the dog should only be off the leash between 10pm and 8am.


Exacto


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mysticsmick said:


> Could you clarify this for me. Do all dogs over 25 kilos have to be muzzled? Or just certain breeds that weigh more than 25 kilos?


I'm pretty sure it's all dogs, Mick.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

So is it the town ayuntamiento which sets the rules? What if they haven't - does it then revert to rules set by the provincia and then the autonomous region? 

Is there one place to which you can go which will give you a definitive answer as to what the rules are in your particular town?


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