# Petition



## Jasmina (Sep 5, 2012)

For those interested in Spanish politics there is a petition on the web at change.org (I'm not allowed to post link) demanding the immediate resignation of Rajoy and his government as proof of his taking backhanders fron Barcenas has now been published. Of course I realise this is unlikely to lead anywhere, and that the PSOE are almost as tainted, but it's a satisfying gesture.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

No different than anywhere else whats the point theyll only replace one bad applecwith another)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

tonyinspain said:


> No different than anywhere else whats the point theyll only replace one bad applecwith another)


True.
But one of the reasons that this situation has developed is that people have allowed it to happen. Showing your disagreement or discontent by signing a petition, going on a demonstration or writing a letter to a paper costs us nothing.
These politicians are in power because the people voted them in...
As the OP says, probably the petition or what ever other action is taken will not make any difference. But it's not going to make anything worse, I don't think...


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> True.
> But one of the reasons that this situation has developed is that people have allowed it to happen. Showing your disagreement or discontent by signing a petition, going on a demonstration or writing a letter to a paper costs us nothing.
> These politicians are in power because the people voted them in...
> As the OP says, probably the petition or what ever other action is taken will not make any difference. But it's not going to make anything worse, I don't think...


Yes but which people not the ordinary person on the street no his flaming cronies they should clear the lot out


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Gesture politics. Pointless. Inflitrate, educate,organise and bring about real change. That's a more effective option. 

I wish I had £10 for every petition I've either signed myself or had handed to me when I was Group Leader on our Council. Not one of them had any effect.

But as PW says, it takes little effort and might make you feel you've done something at least....But in truth, we the people count for nothing.

Corruption is inherent in post-totalitarian regimes. It takes a while for a deep-rooted civil society to evolve. It was the same in the Czech Republic and no doubt in other post-socialist states where, like Franco's reactionary brand of authoritarian clerico-fascism, civil society was non-existent.

The whole bunch are truly disgusting. PP, PSOE, IU...all parties round here are either corrupt, inept or both.

It's said people get the governments they deserve but imo the Spanish people deserve better than this..


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Doesn't anyone think it a bit odd that a group of people with no right to vote in the national government are discussing petitioning for its resignation?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Doesn't anyone think it a bit odd that a group of people with no right to vote in the national government are discussing petitioning for its resignation?


Nope!
I can't vote, but I believe I should be able to. After all, I live here, work here and pay into the tax system here, so what "they" do affects me and my family directly. 
I have my opinion about things, and I think I _should_ have an opinion.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> Doesn't anyone think it a bit odd that a group of people with no right to vote in the national government are discussing petitioning for its resignation?


No. If we confined ourselves to topics in which we had a direct say or even interest there wouldn't be much to talk about, would there.

And I'm a member of one of those Parties - not PP - although my intention was to resign...but have just found that my annual subscription has been deducted from my bank account. So I think I have a right to express an opinion, as do the others..

Most of us here pay taxes in one form or another to the Spanish Treasury....No taxation without representation may indeed apply here.
But no taxation without expressing indignation is reasonable, no?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Your responses are both valid and interesting, but I think I expressed myself badly.
I find it quite ironic that your signatures will appear on this petition of resignation of a person who you were not allowed to vote for or against in the first place.
Feel free to ignore me. I've had a bad day...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Your responses are both valid and interesting, but I think I expressed myself badly.
> I find it quite ironic that your signatures will appear on this petition of resignation of a person who you were not allowed to vote for or against in the first place.
> Feel free to ignore me. I've had a bad day...


In your first post you asked if we didn't think it odd that a group of people with no right to vote in the national government are discussing petitioning for its resignation, so no I don't think it's odd.
In the second post you say that you think it's ironic, and that I agree with. Just like in many other countries in the world, long term legal immigrants are not permitted to vote in general elections here in Spain.
Well, I find that ironic.
Or infuriating 
PS I've had quite a good day...
PPs I haven't signed the petition 'cos I'm not so sure that the immediate resignation of Rajoy etc would actually benefit the country, which peharps is what tonyinspain was saying. I'll have to think about it


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> In your first post you asked if we didn't think it odd that a group of people with no right to vote in the national government are discussing petitioning for its resignation, so no I don't think it's odd.
> In the second post you say that you think it's ironic, and that I agree with. Just like in many other countries in the world, long term legal immigrants are not permitted to vote in general elections here in Spain.
> Well, I find that ironic.
> Or infuriating
> ...


Exactly i really dont think it will make any difference youll remove one greedy sod for another and the countrys in the preverbial at the moment


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## Jasmina (Sep 5, 2012)

I've heard today that petitions CAN make a difference: I signed one in support of a young mother on the point of imprisonment for a minor theft and having done community service and paid a fine. She has been freed! I do have fears, however, as to what would happen if the govt was forced out..it's not as though the king has any moral authority left so he couldn't save the situation as he did during the attempted army coup


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Jasmina said:


> I've heard today that petitions CAN make a difference: I signed one in support of a young mother on the point of imprisonment for a minor theft and having done community service and paid a fine. She has been freed! I do have fears, however, as to what would happen if the govt was forced out..it's not as though the king has any moral authority left so he couldn't save the situation as he did during the attempted army coup


Sorry, Jasmina, but experience in the UK leads me to believe that the decision to change the sentence had little to do with any petition but is more likely to relate to the cost of putting someone in prison for a relatively minor crime.
Also, it's not always a good thing to petition in legal matters where not all the facts are known. Should we take the principle as far as say petitioning for the release or reduction of sentence for rapists and murderers if we think their sentences too harsh? That's the thin end of a wedge, a slippery slope, whichever metaphor you choose.

The only way forward for real change is to 'capture' and change the existing political parties from the inside. The alternative, violent revolution from left or right will end in chaos, bloodshed and repression, as revolutions always do, with the mass of apolitical people in the middle.

I share your apprehension at the fragile state of democracy in Spain. Too many unresolved issues which both political extremes of left and right with scores to settle.


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