# Renovation of flat in Alicante



## annier999 (Sep 28, 2014)

We are looking at properties in Alicante and may decide to go for a flat in the right area that needs renovating and decorating. How easy is it to find a company who would rip out old bathroom and kitchen and fit new? It may also need new windows and lights. It would probably be best to use English speaking firms. Preferably just one company to do it all. All suggestions and advice welcome.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Before you do anything, check with the local ayuntamiento and/or residents association that you are allowed to do this work. Spain and the different areas of Spain have rules about what you can and cant do to properites


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

annier999 said:


> We are looking at properties in Alicante and may decide to go for a flat in the right area that needs renovating and decorating. How easy is it to find a company who would rip out old bathroom and kitchen and fit new? It may also need new windows and lights. It would probably be best to use English speaking firms. Preferably just one company to do it all. All suggestions and advice welcome.


Please do NOT use an English 'firm' - there are so many threads and tales of woe about this on the forum.

Choose a reputable Spanish firm and use a translator if you have to. There are simply loads to choose from. Take a look at who's doing what. get quotes and insist on seeing previous work. Do NOT pay upfront and do NOT pay by time. Ask for a price for the job and pay once you are satisfied. Any reputable company will have lines of credit with builders' yards so should NOT ask for money upfront for material.


Please, please, please get your permissions first - this is your responsibility and NOT the builders (despite what they might tell you).

You have been warned.


----------



## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> Please do NOT use an English 'firm' - there are so many threads and tales of woe about this on the forum.
> 
> Choose a reputable Spanish firm and use a translator if you have to. There are simply loads to choose from. Take a look at who's doing what. get quotes and insist on seeing previous work. Do NOT pay upfront and do NOT pay by time. Ask for a price for the job and pay once you are satisfied. Any reputable company will have lines of credit with builders' yards so should NOT ask for money upfront for material.
> 
> ...


I have worked as a self-employed builder here , I cant understand why anyone should discriminate regarding the nationality .

I know good and bad builders , Spanish and British . ( Its possible for any one to be good or bad at almost any thing )

In fact isn't really nice to discriminate , any one for any reason isn't it ?

I guess we can stereo type people from previous experiences , but really we shouldn't . should we ?

Only my own opinion , but personally like to judge people as individuals and on their ability's 

Cheers Tony


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tonymar said:


> I have worked as a self-employed builder here , I cant understand why anyone should discriminate regarding the nationality .
> 
> I know good and bad builders , Spanish and British . ( Its possible for any one to be good or bad at almost any thing )
> 
> ...



*STOP!!!!* Re-read the first post. S/he says ....


> It would probably be best to use English *speaking* firms....


This isnt discrimination, its wanting to be able to converse and to convey their wishes in the English language. The one that they feel most comfortable with I assume

So lets not get carried away

Jo xxx


----------



## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

jojo said:


> *STOP!!!!* Re-read the first post. S/he says ....
> 
> This isnt discrimination, its wanting to be able to converse and to convey their wishes in the English language. The one that they feel most comfortable with I assume
> 
> ...


Hi Jo , 

I was referring to the reply by snickpoh.

Think he said please do not use an English firm !

I believe in free choice , not based on nationality , 

I fully understand the original posters desire to use a builder he can converse with , ( of any nationality ) 

Is so easy for mistakes to be made when stuff is lost in translation ! 

Its only my opinion, and I respect any one else's opinion , and their freedom to hire who they want


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tonymar said:


> Hi Jo ,
> 
> I was referring to the reply by snickpoh.
> 
> ...


True, I just didnt want this thread to get carried away with "English v Spanish" builders or anything else. 

For us, we always used a Spanish firm when we lived in Spain and yes, the boss spoke English (nearly lol), however, his workmen were (in the main) Polish and didnt speak English or much Spanish!??!

Back to the OP tho, its imperative that the alterations that they want to make are within the rules of the urbanization and the ayuntamiento

Jo xxx


----------



## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

Exactly Jo 

Best not to judge , English , Spanish or in fact any other Nationality builder or any profession.

There are good and bad every where 

Any way , dont want to make a big think of it , and yes of course agree best for the original poster , to go by the book , or do what he feels comfortable with !! 

Cheers 
Tony


----------



## annier999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Thank you for your replies and advice about checking local regs. I think I may decide to go for an already renovated property in a slightly inferior location. At least the work was someone else's problem. I definitely wouldn't discriminate on any grounds. I was merely concerned about miscommunication of technical jargon. I'm female by the way.


----------



## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

annier999 said:


> Thank you for your replies and advice about checking local regs. think I may decide to go for an already renovated property in a slightly inferior location. At least the work was someone else's problem. I definitely wouldn't discriminate on any grounds. I was merely concerned about miscommunication of technical jargon. I'm female by the way.


Hi Annier

Sorry for assuming you were male !, and am sure you wouldn't discriminate on nationality .
It just some times gets me down , when some people assume all British builders are rubbish and 
say things like " they got their qualifications from easy jet on the way over "

I think its just a case of common sense , eg , recommendations, word of mouth , look at previous work etc . and that can apply to any nationality tradesman .

I do think the regulations are a bit ott here , and generally people dont always get permission for small jobs ( but I am not condoning it ) 

So dont worry to much if you find a place that just needs tidying up a bit , I would doubt if many people would ask for permission say too paint their interior walls , or change a bath , etc 

But again I am not condoning it ! , best to ask your new neighbours their opinions as I think different town halls have different views on what they consider you need permission for .

I believe the area where Snickpoh lives have very strict views on permissions , so can understand his view on ensuring all paperwork is in place before undertaking ANY works .

Any way good luck with your search for a suitable flat , you said you are looking at Alicante , do you mean in the city or the province in general ?

Tony Agost Alicante


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

tonymar said:


> Hi Annier
> 
> 
> It just some times gets me down , when some people assume all British builders are rubbish and
> say things like " they got their qualifications from easy jet on the way over "


... there must be two flights then because the other one is where they all become English teachers.  :rofl:


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Tony - we understand your point about a blanket condemnation (or praise) based on nationality but, unfortunately, it is a fact that many English and or other nationality "tradespeople" are of poor quality, unqualified and dishonest. I don't doubt that there are many Spanish ones about as well but neighbours will usually warn about them, if asked. It is far harder for Spanish to depart with one's money and job not done properly or not even started, since, for the most part, they have a home and family locally, whereas other nationalities have fewer ties and after they have got the money from you, there is little to prevent their moving on.

So many Brits fall foul of poor quality tradespeople because they don't speak Spanish so turn to somebody who speaks English which may be his/her only qualification. It is far better to deal with a good quality tradesperson and engage the services of a qualified translator/interpreter. It may cost a little more but if you get a good job done without having to take somebody to court either for financial recompense or to have remedial works carried out, it is worth it.

If you want to know who are the best tradespeople, ask the neighbours - they are less likely, also, to recommend somebody who is no good, to avoid your banging on their doors and saying "that person YOU recommended..."


----------



## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> Tony - we understand your point about a blanket condemnation (or praise) based on nationality but, unfortunately, it is a fact that many English and or other nationality "tradespeople" are of poor quality, unqualified and dishonest. I don't doubt that there are many Spanish ones about as well but neighbours will usually warn about them, if asked. It is far harder for Spanish to depart with one's money and job not done properly or not even started, since, for the most part, they have a home and family locally, whereas other nationalities have fewer ties and after they have got the money from you, there is little to prevent their moving on.
> 
> So many Brits fall foul of poor quality tradespeople because they don't speak Spanish so turn to somebody who speaks English which may be his/her only qualification. It is far better to deal with a good quality tradesperson and engage the services of a qualified translator/interpreter. It may cost a little more but if you get a good job done without having to take somebody to court either for financial recompense or to have remedial works carried out, it is worth it.
> 
> If you want to know who are the best tradespeople, ask the neighbours - they are less likely, also, to recommend somebody who is no good, to avoid your banging on their doors and saying "that person YOU recommended..."


Yes its best to get recommendations 

Also advisable to pay in stages , as the work progresses 

I think a bit of common scene goes a long way !

I personally have not heard bad reports of British builders in my area , in fact mostly good feed back

But I guess that varies from place to place .

Cheers Tony


----------



## Agapito (Dec 3, 2013)

*Renovation of flat in Alicante -Use an architect*

Hi Annier

I found my perfect apartment location wise, easy access from airport, near to supermarkets, banks, chemists, restaurants, but there was a lot of work to be done to make the apartment comfortable and more to our taste, for hubby and me.

I wanted air conditioning/heating, new bathroom, new kitchen, floor tiling, double glazing - it was daunting until I found an architect who spoke a little English and he was wonderful.
He applied for all the licenses, arranged for quotations and project managed the whole renovation. His fee was around Euro 1500 and I would have gladly paid double that amount for peace of mind, his diligence and professionalism. 
Good luck and hope you find what you are looking for.


----------



## annier999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks to you all for great advice. We will be viewing in June and will take your comments on board.


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Tony - we understand your point about a blanket condemnation (or praise) based on nationality but, unfortunately, it is a fact that many English and or other nationality "tradespeople" are of poor quality, unqualified and dishonest. I don't doubt that there are many Spanish ones about as well but neighbours will usually warn about them, if asked. It is far harder for Spanish to depart with one's money and job not done properly or not even started, since, for the most part, they have a home and family locally, whereas other nationalities have fewer ties and after they have got the money from you, there is little to prevent their moving on.
> 
> So many Brits fall foul of poor quality tradespeople because they don't speak Spanish so turn to somebody who speaks English which may be his/her only qualification. It is far better to deal with a good quality tradesperson and engage the services of a qualified translator/interpreter. It may cost a little more but if you get a good job done without having to take somebody to court either for financial recompense or to have remedial works carried out, it is worth it.
> 
> If you want to know who are the best tradespeople, ask the neighbours - they are less likely, also, to recommend somebody who is no good, to avoid your banging on their doors and saying "that person YOU recommended..."


I agree with everything you say. Our area was full of British "cowboy " builders until they were forced back home when the crisis started. But one thing to be aware of with Spanish tradesmen is their habit of quoting low to get the job and then asking for more money half way through the project due to "unexpected" problems or difficulties. A Spanish construction worker friend and another friend, a retired Spanish architect, have both admitted to me that this is common practice in Spain, even with massive public construction projects like road building. Make sure you tie down your Spanish builder with a firm fixed-price contract!


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The Skipper said:


> I agree with everything you say. Our area was full of British "cowboy " builders until they were forced back home when the crisis started. But one thing to be aware of with Spanish tradesmen is their habit of quoting low to get the job and then asking for more money half way through the project due to "unexpected" problems or difficulties. A Spanish construction worker friend and another friend, a retired Spanish architect, have both admitted to me that this is common practice in Spain, even with massive public construction projects like road building. Make sure you tie down your Spanish builder with a firm fixed-price contract!


People tend to make the error of confusing "estimate" with "quotation". If the contractor gives you an estimate, it will be a ball-park figure and the final bill could be more or less. If he gives you a quotation, that is what he is quoting to do the job and he should be held to that figure, assuming that he was given complete information in the beginning.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> People tend to make the error of confusing "estimate" with "quotation". If the contractor gives you an estimate, it will be a ball-park figure and the final bill could be more or less. If he gives you a quotation, that is what he is quoting to do the job and he should be held to that figure, assuming that he was given complete information in the beginning.



Perhaps it's a good idea to specify the two SPANISH words for these - I don't know them.

All I know is that I usually ask for 'presupuesto'.

Is the estimate simply 'estimación'?


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

_presupuesto_ is an estimate
quotation is _cotización_


----------

