# Primark has arrived



## Maggy Crawford

Primark is now in Coimbra at Forum Shopping Centre (where Radio Popular used to be). Excellent value clothing, good range of household goods. We went the other day, the first time in any Primark, and were very impressed.


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## siobhanwf

Great news. One of the best value shops around. Plus good quality. A great addition to the one at Dolce Vita near Lisbon


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## siobhanwf

Maggie did you know that they are an Irish company? Called Penny's in Ireland


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## Maggy Crawford

Yes I did. It is quite amusing to see the Portuguese confused by the Dublin label on everything.


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## siobhanwf

When they opened in Dolce Vita Tejo they sent management staff over fromk relaid to help with the set up, opening and first few weeks. 
It was rather amusing to hear the Irish accent from the staff


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## oronero

I know that some will hate this but cheap imports from foreign countries is not good for the economy of the host nation, especially if that host nation have or had that industry.

The same holds for the UK and countless other nations...it's all well and good but the money that is spent in these stores and profits generally leave the host nation and long-term are bad for the population of the host but very beneficial for the owners of these companies and their shareholders.

Sorry to be a spoilsport, but I do not see what is so great about large international companies.


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## Dennis

*Spoilsport*



oronero said:


> I know that some will hate this but cheap imports from foreign countries is not good for the economy of the host nation, especially if that host nation have or had that industry.
> 
> The same holds for the UK and countless other nations...it's all well and good but the money that is spent in these stores and profits generally leave the host nation and long-term are bad for the population of the host but very beneficial for the owners of these companies and their shareholders.
> 
> Sorry to be a spoilsport, but I do not see what is so great about large international companies.


Spoilsport...


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## canoeman

A plus side they also bring in a lot of money from Spain if you've ever been to Primark in Braga or more especially Porto which is a major destination for Spanish shoppers with Ikea as well, so economy does benifit in other ways.


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## oronero

*Canoeman*, I know what you are saying but those that come over unless they stay overnight in Portugal and spend money with local businesses their money is of no real benefit to the average Portuguese resident.

Many years ago Portugal had a thriving textile industry, which sadly has gone the way that the English one did, due to cheap foreign imports.

I appreciate that many of you do support local businesses in your local community so please don't think that I am having a dig at anybody personally...I am just saying that big corporations and those involved in the importation of cheap goods have a negative effect upon home industries and generally not for the long-term benefit of that host nation, wherever it may be.


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## canoeman

Yes so did UK have a thriving tailoring, shoe industry a lot went to Portugal because cheaper than UK production, then most of Europe lost out to to the emerging Far East, any income generated by a visitor is a benefit to Portugal and all of us, as it filters through in one way or another from IVA to employment etc.

Unfortunate but businesses have to make a profit to survive, so if raw materials cost of production means it's impossible to produce in your home country at a price the consumer will buy at, then what do you do, unfortunately the answer is you move production, sell out or fold.


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## oronero

I would even go as far to say that the only way forward is to have import tariffs on goods so that the nation into which goods are being imported to has a chance of competing for trade. Sourcing from the cheapest global supplier drives prices down, keeps those workers at a low pay level due to there not being enough profit for the manufacturer and makes one entity rich, whoever is supplying the imported goods...the money doesn't always filter from the top down either or stay in the host nation, sadly we failed to do enough in the UK years ago to stem this disease.

It is truly sad to see people struggling because they have insufficient money due to everything being stripped to the bone, youngsters with little prospect of work due to the mess that corporations, global out-sourcing and modern business practices have caused. 

Is Portugal going to go the way of the UK where in certain areas you have three generations of a family being unemployed? I know that this is unlikely to happen there, as the benefit system is not that generous compared to the UK and after two years you get nada, so people will have to do something to exist even if it is growing their own...but it is still bad! 

Are the 'shanty areas' going to comeback to Portugal as existed over thirty years ago in Lisbon that I witnessed whilst going to the airport? Something is so wrong...sorry to rant.


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## canoeman

It's wrong everywhere, yes those shanty towns in Lisbon where quite a shock to me as well


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## Guest

Apologies for sounding rude but you need to open your eyes! have a look between Rua Flecheiro and the river in Tomar (or Jaywick in Essex or Dire Dawa in Ethiopia) there are families living in illegal shacks there for years. Just because it's not "in your face" you probabily don't notice. If people with money do nothing then nothing will change, you need to do something about it rather then spouting off pretending it's someone else's problem.





oronero said:


> I would even go as far to say that the only way forward is to have import tariffs on goods so that the nation into which goods are being imported to has a chance of competing for trade. Sourcing from the cheapest global supplier drives prices down, keeps those workers at a low pay level due to there not being enough profit for the manufacturer and makes one entity rich, whoever is supplying the imported goods...the money doesn't always filter from the top down either or stay in the host nation, sadly we failed to do enough in the UK years ago to stem this disease.
> 
> It is truly sad to see people struggling because they have insufficient money due to everything being stripped to the bone, youngsters with little prospect of work due to the mess that corporations, global out-sourcing and modern business practices have caused.
> 
> Is Portugal going to go the way of the UK where in certain areas you have three generations of a family being unemployed? I know that this is unlikely to happen there, as the benefit system is not that generous compared to the UK and after two years you get nada, so people will have to do something to exist even if it is growing their own...but it is still bad!
> 
> Are the 'shanty areas' going to comeback to Portugal as existed over thirty years ago in Lisbon that I witnessed whilst going to the airport? Something is so wrong...sorry to rant.


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## oronero

coleio said:


> Apologies for sounding rude but you need to open your eyes! have a look between Rua Flecheiro and the river in Tomar (or Jaywick in Essex or Dire Dawa in Ethiopia) there are families living in illegal shacks there for years. Just because it's not "in your face" you probabily don't notice. If people with money do nothing then nothing will change, you need to do something about it rather then spouting off pretending it's someone else's problem.


I lived close to Jaywick for a decade during the 90's, across the estuary from it, to be truthful it was not that bad I wondered around there a few times for the day, they even have a museum there.

With regards to other areas of Portugal I do not know but I remember the shanty district of Lisbon during the 70's and early 80's as we could see it on the way to the airport from Sintra, so I mentioned that.

I know that there are many shanty towns around the world including Brazil, india etc. however these were at the time perceived as very poor nations and I have a feeling that things are going to get still worse before things get better in the perceived 'developed world'.

Seriously the way we conduct business and govern society will have to go through a significant change if the 'shanty towns' are not to return in full view and with vengeance, especially in places without a more supporting benefit system like Portugal.

The only thing that most people can do to help is to spend there money locally rather than into large global corporations, keep the local baker, cafe, shop, etc. going. Without them the community will die.


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## wink

Four large Indian textile firms which make clothing for C&A and the Primark chain among others are still using child labour, according to Dutch multinational research institute Somo in Wednesday's Volkskrant.

The report says young teenage girls have been found working at the four firms which produce solely for the export market. Some girls are forced to work overtime or banned from leaving the factory compound. Others have part of their earning withheld for their dowry, the paper says.

Both C&A and Primark are among eight clothing companies which signed a joint reaction to the report, pledging to work with local organisations to end child exploitation.

'This is not window dressing,' a C&A spokesman is quoted as saying by the Volkskrant. 'We are actively looking for ways to tackle the problems, such as by warning the parents of 14-year-old girls about the recruitment tactics used by companies with a bad reputation.'

The report was published yesterday.


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## Guest

Hi, 

I look at it from a different perspective; my father left home aged 14 as his family, ie my grandfather, could not afford to keep him. They were from the country and my grandfather was a farm labourer so only had work when one of the local "big" farmers needed a labourer. My grandparents, and the vast majority of their neighbours, did not own land and there was no other employment. This is the nature of rural poverty. It is naive to think that making C&A etc. stop their suppliers employing 14 year olds will do anything to alleviate poverty as, in some cases, it will condemn their families who will have no alternative income. For the majority of the condemned, being homeless, living in a squatter camp and child labour are not "lifestyle" choice as there is no choice.

Try this choice: one of your children has amoebic dysentery (hygiene standards are poor) diarrhoea dehydration, so will die as you have nothing, there is no work. Someone says there is work for girls, like your daughter, in a factory in town 100km away, so what do you do? May I assume you would immediately send an email to the CEO of C&A pointing out a transgression of their ethical policy about child labour? 

Telling other people what to do is all very laudable but going and doing something about it yourself will help make the third world (sorry, developing world) stop looking on the developed nations as a load of verbose hypocrites. 

That’ll do for today.


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## oronero

*Coleio*, I fully understand what you are saying and can understand the logic of what happens, however when things are being produced, sometimes to the extent that there is a surplus, with people being exploited for the financial benefit of a tiny percentage of people or shareholders that is unethical in so many ways.

Employing what we class as minors is not ethically right, I would be rather perturbed if my family members had to work at the age of 14. I know that once we start looking at various cultures things and expectations are different but working as 14 year olds in certain circumstances is exploitation, be it by paying them a paltry sum due to their age, or working conditions etc.

There is no easy answer to any of this, the best we can do is be prepared to pay as much as you can afford for something and try to keep the money working for the benefit of your community.

Again apologies for the thread hijack! :confused2:


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## lebesset

portimao


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## Guest

I started working on a market stall at 13, I loved it and from then on have always been employed either weekend work or full time. At 16 I worked for a pittance in a care of the elderly home, you know what that entails. I loved having my own money, and at 13 I wasn't exploited at all. I searched for the job and found one.


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## oronero

J-lo, I also worked from a similiar age, paper round before school and a Saturday job until I left school.

I think you will find that this type of work is not classed as unethical as the hours are monitored in the UK and businesses are fined for any breaches. 

You appear to have taken the mention of young 14 year old children being exploited in sweatshops out of context and tried to make it sound okay by implying that it is the same as what you experienced. 

I think your experience and those that have been alleged to work in these factories is a world apart, and if it's not then your employer took advantage. Just because the victim is not aware of the exploitation taking place does not mean that exploitation did not and is not taking place.


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## Guest

I wasn't trying to imply that unethical practices go on all over the world where children are forced into labour. I was merely saying an age isn't really the issue, its the circumstances etc. I've studied ethics to masters level so I'm fully aware of the issues.


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## Nigel hippy

My sister calls it Primarni. She loves it. Are there any closer to Castelo Branco?

Regards
Nigel


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## canoeman

Not yet, Coimbra or Lisbon


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## Nigel hippy

Thanks again Canoeman.

Nigel


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## margesimpson

*Neither do I*

I do not see what is so great about large international companies. [/QUOTE]

 Unfortunately, nothing can be done already. And as I have heard Primark goods are "made in China", actually. By the way, is it possible to buy real portuguese shoes? Sorry for offtop


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## canoeman

Still quite a few Portuguese shoe manufacturers, if we are Viana do Castello way we visit Mephisto factory and shop, Guimares Fly, Clarkes pulled out much to Portuguese disgust after large subsidies and went east


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## Nigel hippy

Multi national companies all over th world are stopping the small producer earning a living, or at least making it extremely difficult for them to get a foothold in the market. However, I do feel we all have a choice where we shop and consumers are just as much to blame. Bring back the butcher, greengrocer and small shops the once used to adorn our high streets. Rant over.


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## canoeman

There still here


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## Nigel hippy

That's what I like about it.


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## Koosalagoopagoop

Is this currently the only outlet in Portugal or are there others as well?


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## canoeman

Porto, Braga, Coimbra, Rio de Mouro, Rio Tinto, Amadora


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## noserhodes

we visited primark in coimbra last month and it was far and away the busiest store in the whole of the forum complex.
that to me tells its own story, people will shop where the budget dictates, and in times of economic downturn in certain parts of europe, people will spend their money where they get the best value, or where they can afford to shop.


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## Bedspreads

I ahve to agree buying cheap imported rubbish from shops like Primark where they buy from China goods made by children, how can this be good for us? Because our greed as humans make sus want goods cheaper and cheaper all the time whatever the costs to others, Portugal has massive unemploment, the textile industry is in chaos yet they were world leaders in Txtiles made with care and without child labour!, by going to shops that are only looking for profits to send straight out of the Country you as a consumer are encouraging the bad policies, is greed your only option , why live here if you have to import everything from abroad? Support your local economy, buy Portuguese products made to last and create work for people here NOT in China!!!!


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