# looking to move to spain.. help



## xcherylxf (Jun 14, 2014)

Hi everyone, 
My fiance and I are getting married next June and we are looking to move to Spain. I am currently looking into Spanish courses. I am a qualified dental nurse who is gdc registered. I also have bar experience so I'm willing to start anywhere. We would love a change of lifestyle. Has or does anyone work in the medical field and how easy is it to get started. We will make sure we have savings also. I've been reading different bits online but would love to hear from people who have done it themselves.

Thanks
cheryl


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xcherylxf said:


> Hi everyone,
> My fiance and I are getting married next June and we are looking to move to Spain. I am currently looking into Spanish courses. I am a qualified dental nurse who is gdc registered. I also have bar experience so I'm willing to start anywhere. We would love a change of lifestyle. Has or does anyone work in the medical field and how easy is it to get started. We will make sure we have savings also. I've been reading different bits online but would love to hear from people who have done it themselves.
> 
> Thanks
> cheryl


Its been said many times before that there isnt much work in Spain at the moment and you do need to have proof of income and healthcare cover within 90 days of arriving in Spain. 

To be a dental nurse you would need to be totally fluent in written and spoken Spanish and your qualifications would need to be homologated. I used to be a nurse in the NHS, but it was far too long and costly to change over my qualifications, so I went for some care work - well I tried, but there was so little about and it was so irregular that I gave up with it - in fact, to this day, I'm still on their books and waiting for more work to come my way. I did find work helping a friend to run a cafe, but sadly it didnt work. 

Jo xxx


----------



## xcherylxf (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks Jo

I did think as much. I have signed up for Australian agencies etc also but I would prefer to stay within Europe. I'll keep looking into it anyway. X


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

There was a similar discussion last year. I wonder what happened to the OP?

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/140805-dentistry-spain-newbie.html

Lots of good advice there. Bear in mind that youth unemployment here is over 50%, despite many being very well qualified. I would suggest staying put if you have jobs, unless you get a solid job offer over here. Living without a job uses up a shocking amount of money and there are no benefits, it's all down to you. Many people find that what you pay in the UK in pounds, you pay in Spain in euros, the figures are much the same. Imagine living in the UK with no income and you get an idea of how imperative a job or a large pot of savings are.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xcherylxf said:


> Thanks Jo
> 
> I did think as much. I have signed up for Australian agencies etc also but I would prefer to stay within Europe. I'll keep looking into it anyway. X


I'm not 100% certain that you _would _need to be fluent in Spanish - there are English dentists here. Though you would have to get your qualifications homologated, as jojo says

Someone I know is a medical practice nurse & she managed to (eventually) get her qualifications recognised - she does speak Spanish now, but she didn't then. That was 10+ years ago - there was plenty of work around then! 

that said, without Spanish it limits your options drastically - & with such dreadfully high unemployment it's not the best time to be taking chances


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xcherylxf said:


> Thanks Jo
> 
> I did think as much. I have signed up for Australian agencies etc also but I would prefer to stay within Europe. I'll keep looking into it anyway. X



I know what you mean, Australia seems so far away and - well it is, but its probably your best bet.

Jo xxx


----------



## xcherylxf (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your input and getting back to me , maybe I'll win euro millions.. lol x


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I was in Australia when I was nobut a lad, great country, only 21 days by sea, so not that far.

I tried later to emigrate, but the awful cads wouldn't let me in.


----------



## buble (Apr 29, 2011)

Australia...YUK.
We spent quite a few months in Queensland (Floodsville) and NSW (Tinderbox), looking at various places to live (we have family there), and I found the place to be absolutely GHASTLY!!!!
I got absolutely cheesed off with the "want to be America" attitude, and the television continually telling you that it's the best place in the world to live, but for me it isn't, and never will be.
That is the thing about the place, you either love it or hate it. So be very careful and remember, that like Spain, holidays are fantastic, but living there is another "kettle of fish".

Regards,
Mister Grumpy.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xcherylxf said:


> Hi everyone,
> My fiance and I are getting married next June and we are looking to move to Spain. I am currently looking into Spanish courses. I am a qualified dental nurse who is gdc registered. I also have bar experience so I'm willing to start anywhere. We would love a change of lifestyle. Has or does anyone work in the medical field and how easy is it to get started. We will make sure we have savings also. I've been reading different bits online but would love to hear from people who have done it themselves.
> 
> Thanks
> cheryl


Thinking about some of the posts we get on this Forum from people wanting to relocate to Spain and those who have already made the move, I'd say an awful lot depends on what you imagine your Spanish lifestyle would be.
It also depends on the life you had in the UK.
It really does seem that unless you have a job lined up with a permanent legal contract and a good salary your life could be very different indeed from what you imagine it might be. Some people do manage to find work on an ad hoc temporary basis but many more find that their 'Spanish dream' has become a nightmare. Wages are on the whole lower than in the UK, hours can be longer, the cost of living isn't that much lower than in the UK and there is no wrap-around welfare safety net as in the UK...no tax credits or housing benefits for those on low wages, for example.
Then consider that in some parts of Spain unemployment is running at well over 33%, even higher in some places. There are many Spanish people desperately seeking the kind of work you are looking for and as for bar work..best forget about it!
Much of that kind of work is temporary, low-paid and cash in hand which is illegal and the authorities are clamping down.
If you have a job in the UK, stay and have great holidays in Spain or further afield.
If you can put up with insecurity whilst you watch your savings disappear you could always give it a try, although you have to satisfy income, savings and health insurance requirements.
Spain is great if you have enough income to enjoy a comfortable life style which basically means if you have a UK or net-based business, work offshore, have already secured permanent well-paid employment in Spain or are retired with a good income. 
Or if you can put up with a degree of uncertainty as to what your next month's income might be.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I know someone who has just taken waiter/bar job for 800€ a month gross - for a contracted 60 hour week

& chances are he'll end up working more hours than that, for no extra 

that's 3.33€ gross an hour on a four week month - & of course some weeks have nearly 5 - if he only works the 60 hours

July & August each have nearly 5 weeks - & they are of course the months when he's probably going to end up working extra hours.... 1€ an hour net doesn't seem all that unlikely


----------



## xcherylxf (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm aware it wouldn't be like a holiday. I would love for us get out of here. We both work very hard and I'm not afraid of putting in the hours.

It wouldn't necessarily be Spain but it was worth enquiring about as we do love the country. We currently live in Scotland after sept it could all be very different.

Appreciate everyone getting back to me so thank you.


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

xcherylxf said:


> I'm aware it wouldn't be like a holiday. I would love for us get out of here. We both work very hard and I'm not afraid of putting in the hours.
> 
> It wouldn't necessarily be Spain but it was worth enquiring about as we do love the country. We currently live in Scotland after sept it could all be very different.
> 
> Appreciate everyone getting back to me so thank you.


Where in spain are we all talking about or is the whole of spain similar with there problems. Myself and my family are planning of coming over summer of 2016 but the lack of work is a real worry. 

Thanks


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> Where in spain are we all talking about or is the whole of spain similar with there problems. Myself and my family are planning of coming over summer of 2016 but the lack of work is a real worry.
> 
> Thanks


some areas & towns are obviously worse than others, but the _average _unemployment rate is about 25% + - in the UK it's currently under 7% 

I don't think anywhere in Spain _doesn't _have unemployment much higher than in the UK - & in some areas it's 5X what it is there


who knows what it will be like by 2016 - I suspect not much better, if not actually worse


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> some areas & towns are obviously worse than others, but the average unemployment rate is about 25% + - in the UK it's currently under 7%
> 
> I don't think anywhere in Spain doesn't have unemployment much higher than in the UK - & in some areas it's 5X what it is there
> 
> who knows what it will be like by 2016 - I suspect not much better, if not actually worse


How come worst ? Im a english painter & decorator and my wife is in adim now but has done bar work and telly sales in spain before. We would be hopefully moving to costa del sol. La cala, mijas area if thats any help to anyone.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> How come worst ? Im a english painter & decorator and my wife is in adim now but has done bar work and telly sales in spain before. We would be hopefully moving to costa del sol. La cala, mijas area if thats any help to anyone.


no-one knows for sure, but most predictions are that it will get worse before it gets better

I for one hope it gets better because I have teenagers who will be entering the job market in a few years!

Andalucía where you're planning to go pretty much has the highest unemployment in the country just now


when you do come, you'll have to register as resident & in order to do that you'll have to prove that you have sufficient funds &/or income (about 650€ a month / 6000€ in the bank each) & healthcare provision - so you'll either need a decent amount of savings & private healthcare or contracted work


did you read my post above about what they are paying for bar work atm?


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> no-one knows for sure, but most predictions are that it will get worse before it gets better
> 
> I for one hope it gets better because I have teenagers who will be entering the job market in a few years!
> 
> ...


Well have around 50 thousand pounds in sterling, I thought spain was sorry turning a corner.
Hoping spain picks up before 2016 as we 2 young children.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> Well have around 50 thousand pounds in sterling, I thought spain was sorry turning a corner.
> Hoping spain picks up before 2016 as we 2 young children.


you have enough to get yourselves started then 

:fingerscrossed: it _does _get better !


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> Where in spain are we all talking about or is the whole of spain similar with there problems. Myself and my family are planning of coming over summer of 2016 but the lack of work is a real worry.
> 
> Thanks


I suggest you start following Spain news from 
El País in English
EL PAÍS in English
BBC - stories like these
BBC News - Ada Colau: Spain's anti-eviction crusader

BBC News - European Commission sees recovery 'gaining ground'

Search the forum for information
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...pain/149809-unemployment-uk-spain-2013-a.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/374305-stories-life-spain.html
and keep up with what's happening over here so that you have a real picture before you make the move.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xcherylxf said:


> I'm aware it wouldn't be like a holiday. I would love for us get out of here. We both work very hard and I'm not afraid of putting in the hours.
> 
> It wouldn't necessarily be Spain but it was worth enquiring about as we do love the country. We currently live in Scotland after sept it could all be very different.
> 
> Appreciate everyone getting back to me so thank you.


Altho I kind of understand what you're saying, the part of me who has done the 'I'm happy to work long hours with little money' says/asks why??? It's soul destroying, stressful and very little pleasure. Once the novelty of moving country wears off - it's of no significance where you are! "Same ****, different day/place" tired, no time, no money, cold in the winter, too hot in the summer, chores, bills, in a country with a poor welfare system and unemployment all around. 

Jo xxx


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Andy&vicky said:


> How come worst ? Im a english painter & decorator and my wife is in adim now but has done bar work and telly sales in spain before. We would be hopefully moving to costa del sol. La cala, mijas area if thats any help to anyone.


Just to give you an idea of what you'd be competing with, the last time I had the outside of my house painted, two local guys who'd been without work for some years did it. They asked for €40 per day each.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Andy&vicky said:


> How come worst ? Im a english painter & decorator and my wife is in adim now but has done bar work and telly sales in spain before. We would be hopefully moving to costa del sol. La cala, mijas area if thats any help to anyone.


Unemployment in Malaga Province is running at over 34%. In some areas it's worse.
Why? The answer to that question is simple: the construction industry has collapsed completely so there is little steady work for plumbers, plasterers, painters etc.
There are small building works and maintenance going on but in our area the workers are 100% Spanish. 
Many Brits here prefer to use spanish workers as they are more likely to have built up a good reputation locally and besides we are committed to our communities and are aware of how important it is to give local people work.
Spain has tightened up its entry requirements and I think you need proof of income as well as savings plus medical insurance. £50k can disappear within a couple of years if you have no regular work and you have to fork out for unexpected emergencies.
Sadly, I think PW is right. Things won't improve for many years and Spain will never again be the Spain it was for immigrants over ten years ago. Many immigrants have gone back to the UK so there is much competition amongst British tradespeople who cater mainly to British communities.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Please take a look also at the information in the Cost of School Lunch in Spain thread about the expense involved in sending your children to school (even state school) in Spain.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Please take a look also at the information in the Cost of School Lunch in Spain thread about the expense involved in sending your children to school (even state school) in Spain.


Both of mine are at ' free ' state school and I budget a min 1000€ a year each for books, supplies etc.
Edit- just looked at the link on that thread which chopera added - seems I'm not far off and doing well if I can keep it to 1000€ !


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Unemployment in Malaga Province is running at over 34%. In some areas it's worse.
> Why? The answer to that question is simple: the construction industry has collapsed completely so there is little steady work for plumbers, plasterers, painters etc.
> There are small building works and maintenance going on but in our area the workers are 100% Spanish.
> Many Brits here prefer to use spanish workers as they are more likely to have built up a good reputation locally and besides we are committed to our communities and are aware of how important it is to give local people work.
> ...


You can't even see Spain improved by 2016/2017 ? Or shall we just forget about this dream.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> You can't even see Spain improved by 2016/2017 ? Or shall we just forget about this dream.


Surely that depends on what your dream is, exactly?
I would say if that dream includes secure, well paid jobs in bar work and painting and decorating, it's unlikely. However, bar work and painting and decorating were never secure and well paid even before 2008- abundant yes, but largely paid under the table, uncontracted and unstable.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> You can't even see Spain improved by 2016/2017 ? Or shall we just forget about this dream.



I see no reason to not think ahead & hope it improves, with nothing set in stone until nearer the time

thing is - even if by some miracle unemployment figures in Spain should half in two years, they would still be at *twice *what it is in the UK atm

study Spanish in the intervening time - that would give you an edge & you can never have too many languages!!


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Andy&vicky said:


> You can't even see Spain improved by 2016/2017 ? Or shall we just forget about this dream.


Frankly, I never regarded Spain as a good place to come for anyone who needs to earn a living (unless you're in the fortunate position of being offered a well paid job with a large company and a legal employment contract, or one of the growing band of people who seem to be able to work anywhere via the internet - although even they are limited in their choice of location in Spain as a lot of places don't have high speed connections) even before the recession started.

From what I saw and heard from people who were trying, back in 2002/2003 when we were looking for property, was that work was sporadic, wages were low, people weren't always guaranteed to get paid, and there were just too many people chasing what little work there was around.

I would have loved to have been able to make the move a few years earlier than we did, but I wouldn't contemplate it until I was confident that we had sufficient funds to live on until our pensions became payable.

It's become even harder now for people under retirement age to make the move, because the UK has stopped issuing S1 forms to anyone under state retirement age, which means that you have to cover your own healthcare costs from day one, either by having private medical insurance (in your case for a family of 4) or paying "autonomo" (self-employed) social security contributions. As others have already pointed out, you need to provide proof that you have medical cover, and sufficient financial resources, in order to get a resident certificate - and without that you can't enrol your children in school.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Surely that depends on what your dream is, exactly?
> I would say if that dream includes secure, well paid jobs in bar work and painting and decorating, it's unlikely. However, bar work and painting and decorating were never secure and well paid even before 2008- abundant yes, but largely paid under the table, uncontracted and unstable.


good point


paid under the table, uncontracted and unstable is all well & good though, if you've only got to think about yourself - with two kids though - I wouldn't chance it, though that of course is Andy&vicky's decision


the BIG difference really though, which so many people in the UK don't seem to realise, is that if it all goes wrong there is no state support to speak of, especially if you have been working 'paid under the table, uncontracted and unstable'

if you've been working contracted, there's a little help - but I struggle to see how anyone manages on what is it? Something like 400€ a month?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Surely that depends on what your dream is, exactly?
> I would say if that dream includes secure, well paid jobs in bar work and painting and decorating, it's unlikely. However, bar work and painting and decorating were never secure and well paid even before 2008- abundant yes, but largely paid under the table, uncontracted and unstable.


Sorry, I meant to say that of course nobody *knows* what will happen and people here or indeed in economics publications all over the world couldn't predict the recession coming so maybe we can't predict the end of the recession either (although most people agree that Spain will not recover its former glory within the forseeable future). 
And also to say you may possibly be able to pick up some kind of work here, but whether that will lead to you leading a *better* life is another matter.
It's your decision, but no one can tell you how things are going to pan out so maybe it's better to do what xabiachica suggests. Start getting ready and see what happens.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Andy&vicky said:


> You can't even see Spain improved by 2016/2017 ? Or shall we just forget about this dream.


No, I don't see how any country in the situation Spain is currently in can make any sort of meaningful recovery in two years.
Reasons: Spain's unemployment is structural. Too much reliance on construction, cheap tourism and too little investment in jobs in the 'new' economy and the skills training that needs to accompany this.
Secondly, even if Spain's economy does pick up, jobs have to be found for the seven million plus unemployed Spaniards first of all. Even in the good times unemployment ran at around the 6 -8% level.

I wonder what your 'dream' really consists of. Jo always brings people down to earth by pointing out that yes, the sun may shine more here than in the UK but you do the same old things, shopping, cleaning, cooking and so on. It gets cold and it rains here too - thirty miles from us it snows heavily in the winter months.
Dreams can rapidly become nightmares when you have no stable secure work and what you do get is very low pay, for jobs like telesales, bar work and household maintenance jobs. A lot of this work used to be cash in hand but the government is cracking down on that now.

The weather may be crap in the UK but people on low pay enjoy Working Family Tax Credit, Housing Benefit, Child Benefit...none of that in Spain. No automatic help if you are unemployed and no access to the free health service unless you pay your autonomo if you are self-employed.

When we point this out we often get asked 'Why are you here then?' Simple answer is that we are mainly in secure work or in most cases retired with no need to work. 
I'm retired and enjoying life here but like Lynn, no way would I have considered leaving the UK to look for work in Spain when I was of working age.

Whatever you do is of course your choice and if you had no dependents I'd say give it a go. But you have children and children need stability which for years to come isn't something you can guarantee here, as the fact that every second person of working age in Estepona is jobless shows.
Spain isn't El Dorado any more...in many towns and villages it's more like Tombstone County.


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I have seen signs of the economy picking up, but it's slow and likely to be slow for a considerable time.

I do think that when people say, 'I'm willing to do anything and I'll work hard', despite hearing about the high unemployment rates here, that it is pretty derogatory to the Spanish people. Do you think that _they_ aren't willing to do anything, any hours, any work, anywhere? There are many families here where three generations are living from the grandparents' pensions, as there is no other income coming in. _España es diferente_, as they say. There is no benefits system here. Bring money with you, but be prepared to see the numbers decreasing. Plan for a worst case scenario. If all goes well, hurrah! If it doesn't go as expected, be prepared. Can you imagine going back to the UK after two years with no savings and no jobs? 

There are still skeletons of half-finished buildings wherever you go after the construction industry nigh on stopped in 2007/8. Youth unemployment is 56%. It IS different now and please, don't think we're being mean, we just don't want to see people lose everything!


----------



## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

I only popped back on here for the World Cup information as far as television goes, but I've been drawn into this thread, so I'll stick my tin hat on and post my experiences and opinions.

Both myself and my partner moved here just under a year ago. We haven't really found it as tough as others seem to have found it. Within a couple of months my partner had a full-time job in Malaga and I'd sorted out work for myself as a photographer between here and other parts of Europe.

We've met new friends (none of them British curiously enough), enjoyed the healthier lifestyle that the weather has afforded us, and pretty much managed to make the transition without much problem.

The only thing that's bothering us now is boredom and aversion to loud, inconsiderate tourists. The Costa Del Sol really is a place of extremes. It's either party central with tourists, or it's retirement town.

One thing I'd advise any younger people to do before moving here is to think what they want out of their day to day life. Even if you get a job, there isn't much to do here. If you're from a big city in the UK and you're used to the hustle & bustle then you'll be disappointed I think.

You have access to cheap booze, the beach and the sea. Aside from that there really isn't much happening.

I think we're seeing out the year then looking to head to Scandinavia. 

Funnily enough, if someone told me that they were qualified in their field and were desperate to leave the UK for somewhere different I'd probably recommend Norway, Sweden or Canada more than I would Spain or Australia.

As has been said, the situation here isn't great, and whilst I do believe that if someone really wants to make it work they can, I don't see it getting any better. The infrastructure is a joke, and it really would take a virtual restructuring of their Government to get **** in order in my opinion, which isn't going to happen.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

David1979 said:


> I only popped back on here for the World Cup information as far as television goes, but I've been drawn into this thread, so I'll stick my tin hat on and post my experiences and opinions.
> 
> Both myself and my partner moved here just under a year ago. We haven't really found it as tough as others seem to have found it. Within a couple of months my partner had a full-time job in Malaga and I'd sorted out work for myself as a photographer between here and other parts of Europe.
> 
> ...


You know my views, David and MadLiz has summed up how derogatory it is to the millions of unemployed Spaniards to trot out that old Thatcher spiel that #anyone can make a go of it'. It depends on your definition of making a go.

But I'll say this,,,you moved to a town that makes its living from tourists so you must expect noise and...tourists.
There are many places on the CdS that are neither tourist towns or retirement towns. I live in one of them.
As for there being little to do...I can only wonder at that...For us, there is too much to do. We have loads of friends - yes, Spanish but other nationalities apart from Brits as well - and are involved in our community, which involves music clubs and gigs (we've become flamenco fans), charity and political work and plain old spending time walking, exploring the area, taking short breaks elsewhere in Spain and Portugal. In other words, more or less what we did in the UK. 
I once read this somewhere: 'People who are bored have often done nothing to deserve it'. Very true.....

I don't know about Scandinavia but I do know about Canada as we owned property there and I know that Canada is very selective as to who it decides to allow to come and work. It chooses people with the skills they need and even that isn't enough for some provincial governments. I have degrees, am a qualified teacher, interpreter and translator, speak fluent French and have family in Canada,,,,but when I considered emigrating there my skills were not in demand.

So I don't think you can recommend Canada as a destination for those who might find it hard to make a go of it in Spain.

P.S. Apologies to Canadians, Danes and Swedes but although I found their natives friendly and welcoming, I thought those were the three most boring countries I have ever spent time in.
Hence the sale of the Canadian property and the decision to move to Spain.

PPS Infrastructure wasn't too good in the part of the UK I lived in . Some areas still have intermittent mobile phone coverage, roads are inadequately maintained and public transport....what's that?, ask the locals.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

David1979 said:


> I only popped back on here for the World Cup information as far as television goes, but I've been drawn into this thread, so I'll stick my tin hat on and post my experiences and opinions.
> 
> Both myself and my partner moved here just under a year ago. We haven't really found it as tough as others seem to have found it. Within a couple of months my partner had a full-time job in Malaga and I'd sorted out work for myself as a photographer between here and other parts of Europe.
> 
> ...


Although I agree with some of what you say here you can't and shouldn't compare apples and pears. 
You have different qualifications, areas of work and you seem to have forgotten (again) when you tell people about your situation that you had income coming in from the UK when you first came, and that your work was not very constant, perhaps it is now.
Also, as far as I remember you don't have children.
Really, your imput could be very useful if you gave the whole story and not the highlighted edited version.
As I have said on other threads, it's great that you have been able to establish yourself here, but if you want to pass on tips to others it would be infinitely more useful if you gave a more complete story.
Why don't you do that on this thread
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/374305-stories-life-spain.html

I do agree however that the costas don't cater to everyone's taste, but it really is easy to get a good idea of what a place has got to offer before moving in.
I would also advise qualified people to seek work in other countries, having done a good deal of research before hand


----------



## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> You know my views, David and MadLiz has summed up how derogatory it is to the millions of unemployed Spaniards to trot out that old Thatcher spiel that #anyone can make a go of it'. It depends on your definition of making a go.


Yeah, there's no point in going over that again. I wouldn't classify my thinking as Thatcher as much as it's more Duncan Bannatyne though 

If my views are considered derogatory to Spaniards, then so be it. I have my outlook on it, and it's worked for me. No reason it can't work for others. I'm not especially well qualified. I don't have a degree or university education, and I wasn't blessed with a family who had money.

Just an average Joe, so to speak.



mrypg9 said:


> As for there being little to do...I can only wonder at that...For us, there is too much to do. We have loads of friends - yes, Spanish but other nationalities apart from Brits as well - and are involved in our community, which involves music clubs and gigs (we've become flamenco fans), charity and political work and plain old spending time walking, exploring the area, taking short breaks elsewhere in Spain and Portugal. In other words, more or less what we did in the UK.
> I once read this somewhere: 'People who are bored have often done nothing to deserve it'. Very true.....


You'll note I said younger people. I'm in my early thirties and so is my partner, and I don't think I know many people in our age group who would classify what you describe as being desirable things to do.

I'd no doubt feel differently if we were to return here later in life, but at the moment? Nope, Flamenco, music clubs, walking and political work don't top our list of things to do.

Having lived in Glasgow for a fair bit of time before coming here we've seen the stark differences in lifestyle.

That's not to say that we didn't know that, as we did, and the place has served its purpose. We were looking for a break from the hustle & bustle, a bit of sunshine, healthier living etc, and we got that. We were never intending on living here long-term.

I'm just pointing out to others who may be in our age group that they may find the place a tad boring (especially in the winter). I could be wrong though, and maybe the activities you mention will appeal. 



mrypg9 said:


> I don't know about Scandinavia but I do know about Canada as we owned property there and I know that Canada is very selective as to who it decides to allow to come and work. It chooses people with the skills they need and even that isn't enough for some provincial governments. I have degrees, am a qualified teacher, interpreter and translator, speak fluent French and have family in Canada,,,,but when I considered emigrating there my skills were not in demand.
> 
> So I don't think you can recommend Canada as a destination for those who might find it hard to make a go of it in Spain.


There aren't skills that would be welcomed in Canada at the moment that wouldn't translate well in Spain? I think differently.

For example, construction managers are in chronic demand in Canada. I'm not sure how well a English-speaking construction manager would do in Spain though.

I'd certainly recommend that anyone who has a trade or skill that is looking to leave the UK check the list of desirable attributes for Canada before they move. The list changes frequently and you never know, do you? Just because your particular skillset wasn't required doesn't mean someone else's won't be, and it's always worth checking.

I've spent some time living in Canada and it was brilliant. If you're into sports such as baseball, football, and especially hockey it's the place to be. They have great summers with plenty of activities, and excellent winters with the same.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

David1979 said:


> speak.
> 
> 
> You'll note I said younger people. I'm in my early thirties and so is my partner, and I don't think I know many people in our age group who would classify what you describe as being desirable things to do.
> ...


I think a lot of what you have experienced is down to where you live. The only things I can think of that younger people might prefer are sports and clubbing? What have I left out? Mind you, quite a few older people go clubbing, I gather...No me, as Glaswegian OH would say. Most of the people I'm in contact with through political activities are young Spaniards. Every week I spend an enjoyable couple of hours nattering with young people, in Spanish, people who don't seem to have heard of ageism. I once told a couple of young friends how pleased I was that they didn't mind spending evenings with old biddies like me and they looked at me in bewilderment.
But there are loads of sporting activities here, even cricket and rugby, which rather surprised me. Loads of things you couldn't do in Glasgow either...scuba diving, sailing, water skiing, all those aquatic things.
Canada isn't for everyone The east coast experiences temperature changes from 40C in summer to -40C in winter., one reason that put us off. I also found the culture bland and the landscape uninteresting..but then I'm 100% European.
In a way, living in Spain for me is not that different from my life in the UK. We had a nice house there too and I'm still doing all the things I did back in the UK. The sun shines more here of course but that's not the be-all and end-all.


----------



## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Any move to foreign climes in my opinion is what you make it and presumably you move somewhere that fits your requirements. We have the circumstances for Spain , no need for income no dependent children , no mortgage on our Spanish house and enough money to live as we please. We have a little business that doesn't rely on Spanish customers but does support the local village with bringing in folks who are spending money in bars, resturants and shops. We have an opportunity to travel in a beautiful country and the surrounding countries much easier than we would from the UK , you do your homework and you make your choice, if a country doesn't deliver what you want from life why would you consider living there if you have a choice ? Its about having the lifestyle you would prefer , the weather is a big bonus but every day life and the chores associated with it dont go away wherever you are


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

maureen47 said:


> Any move to foreign climes in my opinion is what you make it and presumably you move somewhere that fits your requirements. We have the circumstances for Spain , no need for income no dependent children , no mortgage on our Spanish house and enough money to live as we please. We have a little business that doesn't rely on Spanish customers but does support the local village with bringing in folks who are spending money in bars, resturants and shops. We have an opportunity to travel in a beautiful country and the surrounding countries much easier than we would from the UK , you do your homework and you make your choice, if a country doesn't deliver what you want from life why would you consider living there if you have a choice ? Its about having the lifestyle you would prefer , the weather is a big bonus but every day life and the chores associated with it dont go away wherever you are


Thank you all for your help & advice, sadly hasn't got me any closer to answer. That's if there even is a correct answer.
My partner and I have lived spain before and would like the life style again for us and our children. 
Think we will have to keep looking and asking for advice, and do more research.
If anyone has anymore useful information that might us, please private message. 
As my other posts have said we are not planning on coming over till summer 2016. Thank you


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> Thank you all for your help & advice, sadly hasn't got me any closer to answer. That's if there even is a correct answer.
> My partner and I have lived spain before and would like the life style again for us and our children.
> Think we will have to keep looking and asking for advice, and do more research.
> If anyone has anymore useful information that might us, please private message.
> As my other posts have said we are not planning on coming over till summer 2016. Thank you


It's very difficult for us, living different lives from you and not knowing you, to give real useful advice about the future of a country in the throes of change, as I expect/ hope you understand.
IMO the best things you can do are as I said before 


keep in touch with what's happening in Spain through the media
keep your ear to the ground here on the forum and other places
come to Spain on fact finding missions as our mod Jojo always says ie not holidays, as often as poss as you're the only ones who can make the decision


----------



## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Andy&vicky said:


> Thank you all for your help & advice, sadly hasn't got me any closer to answer. That's if there even is a correct answer.
> My partner and I have lived spain before and would like the life style again for us and our children.
> Think we will have to keep looking and asking for advice, and do more research.
> If anyone has anymore useful information that might us, please private message.
> As my other posts have said we are not planning on coming over till summer 2016. Thank you



I wish you all the best Andy and Vicky , Life is too short not to do things that make you happy and enjoy life , just do as you say and continue to do more research and mitigate the risks for you personally and live the dream , you only get one chance ! Its worked for us , our lifestyle and choices wouldn't be right for everyone but they sure do work for us


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

maureen47 said:


> I wish you all the best Andy and Vicky , Life is too short not to do things that make you happy and enjoy life , just do as you say and continue to do more research and mitigate the risks for you personally and live the dream , you only get one chance ! Its worked for us , our lifestyle and choices wouldn't be right for everyone but they sure do work for us


Thank you


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

maureen47 said:


> I wish you all the best Andy and Vicky , Life is too short not to do things that make you happy and enjoy life , just do as you say and continue to do more research and mitigate the risks for you personally and live the dream , you only get one chance ! Its worked for us , our lifestyle and choices wouldn't be right for everyone but they sure do work for us


At the risk of sounding curmudgeonly, I would add a note of caution here and say that imo life is too short to be doing things that 'make you happy' without, as you do say, thoroughly researching first and weighing up pros and cons very carefully. Happiness can be very short-lived if you pursue it without due diligence.

As you say, anyone considering a move to any country especially with children has to plan and consider your move in minute detail. It's essential, for example, to have a Plan B in case things do go pear-shaped. If possible, keep a UK home if you can.

I don't understand why people so often talk about the 'Spanish dream' either. No-one talks about the 'French dream', the 'German dream' or the 'Czech dream'. Life in Spain is very pleasant, if you have no worries, but I'm betting that you didn't spend every second of your job back in the UK thinking about Spain! 
Jo always brings us down to earth on that score, reminding us that we shop, clean the loo, do the washing and so on...just as we did back home.

I'll bet for you as it was for me the real dream I had most days of my working life was of the day I would retire, when I would pass through the school gates for the last time....The dream of freedom


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Jo always brings us down to earth on that score, reminding us that we shop, clean the loo, do the washing and so on...just as we did back home.
> ¡



clean the loo.............. I've never had *unblock *the damn thing so often anywhere but Spain!!

today - again


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> clean the loo.............. I've never had *unblock *the damn thing so often anywhere but Spain!!
> 
> today - again


All part of that dream..

And I have been sitting at my desk all day putting what seems like hundreds of CDs on my new laptop so I can transfer them to my IPod...
There must be a way of saving your ITunes library when you get a new computer....but damned if I can find it.


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> At the risk of sounding curmudgeonly, I would add a note of caution here and say that imo life is too short to be doing things that 'make you happy' without, as you do say, thoroughly researching first and weighing up pros and cons very carefully. Happiness can be very short-lived if you pursue it without due diligence.
> 
> As you say, anyone considering a move to any country especially with children has to plan and consider your move in minute detail. It's essential, for example, to have a Plan B in case things do go pear-shaped. If possible, keep a UK home if you can.
> 
> ...


Sadly my work hours are filled up of thinking of spain and can we make it happen. Ive never said living the 'Spanish dream' I've worked there for 3 years and grafted every day as did my wife. We came home go have our daughter and couldn't get back, that was nearly 7 years ago.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> At the risk of sounding curmudgeonly, I would add a note of caution here and say that imo life is too short to be doing things that 'make you happy' without, as you do say, thoroughly researching first and weighing up pros and cons very carefully. Happiness can be very short-lived if you pursue it without due diligence.
> 
> As you say, anyone considering a move to any country especially with children has to plan and consider your move in minute detail. It's essential, for example, to have a Plan B in case things do go pear-shaped. If possible, keep a UK home if you can.
> 
> ...


You make me sound a right misery lol!!!!!!

However, its true. The novelty wears off. Spain is a harsh country and very often when we're sitting moaning in the UK about "our lot", we forget how lucky we are. Before we went to Spain, I was desperate to get away from the mundane, miserable life in the UK, working, greyness, crowds, traffic jams...... I thought Spain was the answer and it was, it was beautiful. The space, the weather, the scenery, the ambience. But I still had two children to get to school and back, washing, cooking, cleaning, shopping. Luckily my husband commuted, so we didnt have to worry about work and we could also still claim child allowance as he continued to pay UKNI and we rented out our UK house, which also gave us income. After a few months tho, I realised how difficult spain was, especially without the knowledge of the language or the way things (bureaucracy) worked. The spanish arent as "PC" as the British and it was so difficult and time consuming to get anything done. My 10yo daughter hated Spain (and didnt we know it!!!), she hated the heat, the insects, the "creepy crawlies", the dust, the people...... and most of the time, both my children spent their time in the house playing on their xboxes cos it was either too hot or too cold outside - the novelty of a swimming pool in the garden wore off. Both my kids missed their friends and relatives.

Spain has changed tho since we were there 3 years ago. The rules to live there have been tightened up - proof of income within 90 days, the need to have an employment contract to be eligible for healthcare and the lack of work, have all changed the ease to move there. I also dont really think its fair to take any employment from folk who are desperate. Unemployment benefit in Spain, is limited, you really only get what you've paid in and then it stops - end!

So, if you want to move to Spain, you need to forget "the dream". This is a reality we're discussing and like real things, it needs proper planning, preparation and common sense. 

As for us??? we're back in the UK now and have been for 3 years. I miss spain dreadfully, but being back has made me appreciate how easy and safe it is in the UK. We're planning to buy an apartment in Spain and having a Spanish bolthole,, with the plan to eventually retire there - maybe!!?

Jo xxx


----------



## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

jojo said:


> You make me sound a right misery lol!!!!!!
> 
> However, its true. The novelty wears off. Spain is a harsh country and very often when we're sitting moaning in the UK about "our lot", we forget how lucky we are. Before we went to Spain, I was desperate to get away from the mundane, miserable life in the UK, working, greyness, crowds, traffic jams...... I thought Spain was the answer and it was, it was beautiful. The space, the weather, the scenery, the ambience. But I still had two children to get to school and back, washing, cooking, cleaning, shopping. Luckily my husband commuted, so we didnt have to worry about work and we could also still claim child allowance as he continued to pay UKNI and we rented out our UK house, which also gave us income. After a few months tho, I realised how difficult spain was, especially without the knowledge of the language or the way things (bureaucracy) worked. The spanish arent as "PC" as the British and it was so difficult and time consuming to get anything done. My 10yo daughter hated Spain (and didnt we know it!!!), she hated the heat, the insects, the "creepy crawlies", the dust, the people...... and most of the time, both my children spent their time in the house playing on their xboxes cos it was either too hot or too cold outside - the novelty of a swimming pool in the garden wore off. Both my kids missed their friends and relatives.
> 
> ...


Why did you come back to the uk Jo ?


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Andy&vicky said:


> Sadly my work hours are filled up of thinking of spain and can we make it happen. Ive never said living the 'Spanish dream' I've worked there for 3 years and grafted every day as did my wife. We came home go have our daughter and couldn't get back, that was nearly 7 years ago.


Spain was the last place I imagined I'd live. In fact, I didn't really feel keen about the idea of moving here. We came here from Prague because my partner couldn't stand living there any more. It took me almost six months to feel settled and happy. Now I couldn't imagine leaving.

I rarely thought about living abroad when I was working, I often counted down to retirement, though. A friend kept a long roll of paper on the staffroom wall and each day wrote the number of working days she had still to go. The Head instructed her to take it down as it was, he said, bad for morale.

How you feel about your future depends largely on how you feel about your present. My job was secure and well-paid, I suppose, so I really shouldn't have had such a bad attitude and anyway, I did my job to the best of my ability. But I was bored most of the time.

So I was over the moon when my OH said we should sell up house and business and leave the UK. But Spain didn't enter in to our thinking then. 
My son and his wife have a house here so it was suggested we move into their house while looked around. Six years later almost and we're still here, in our own house.

If moving back here means so much to you I hope you'll be able to do it sooner than later. As you've lived here before you'll know the up and down sides. But Spain has changed since we arrived in 2008, not for the better job-wise.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy&vicky said:


> Why did you come back to the uk Jo ?


 3 years ago. The recession hit the exchange rate, there was no future for the children and they both wanted to come back to the UK for college (well my daughter just wanted to come back to the UK lol). My husband got fed up with the commute, so in the end, back we came. I'm not happy here, but I can see the benefits and life isnt such a struggle, but my heart is in Spain.

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Andy&vicky said:


> Why did you come back to the uk Jo ?


There ¡s a lot of info in her post here...

_After a few months tho, I realised how difficult spain was, especially without the knowledge of the language or the way things (bureaucracy) worked. The spanish arent as "PC" as the British and it was so difficult and time consuming to get anything done. My 10yo daughter hated Spain (and didnt we know it!!!), she hated the heat, the insects, the "creepy crawlies", the dust, the people...... and most of the time, both my children spent their time in the house playing on their xboxes cos it was either too hot or too cold outside - the novelty of a swimming pool in the garden wore off. Both my kids missed their friends and relatives._


----------



## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

We live/rent in a beautiful street in La Cala - which is commonly referred to as, ' Coronation Street.'

This because of the amount of British owners. They flit backwards & forwards between their two homes & really have the best of both worlds.

Some bought approximately 20/30 years ago - or, have inherited their houses from parents who lived here full time.

Several of the houses have been up for sale for 2 years or more, with no takers ! Surprising, because all basic amenities are here & the beach is just around the corner.


----------

