# Arrest warrants



## MaidenScotland

Authorities in Cairo have ordered the arrest of seven US-based Egyptian Coptic Christians for their alleged involvement in an anti-Islam video.

The crude production posted on YouTube has sparked violent protests and riots across the Muslim world for its depiction of the Prophet Muhammad.

It is unclear who made the film, but it has been linked to an Egyptian Coptic Christian living in the United States.

An arrest warrant has also been issued for US Christian pastor Terry Jones.

One woman and seven men, including Mr Jones, are accused of "insulting the Islamic religion, insulting the Prophet and inciting sectarian strife", according to the prosecutor's office.

It said international police agency Interpol would be notified of the warrants. A request will also be filed with US judicial authorities.

The office added that all the accused could face the death penalty if convicted.




This country is falling apart at the seams and this is their priority, talk about campaigning early for the next election


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## expatagogo

This is what happens when religion is the government and government is the religion.

Nothing good can come of it.


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## charleen

oooh no. This can't be good. I feel sad. So many angry people.


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## MaidenScotland

charleen said:


> oooh no. This can't be good. I feel sad. So many angry people.






Well not so many, didn't we agree that the majority of people want nothing to do with the demonstrations etc.. 
All they are doing is giving more advertising for this film.


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## MaidenScotland

The Book of Mormon show and the reactions from the Church of Latter day Saints in the way they should have reacted to this movie


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## Sonrisa

While they are at it I wonder if arrests warrants could also be issued for the producers of Twinlight.


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## Whitedesert

MaidenScotland said:


> Authorities in Cairo have ordered the arrest of seven US-based Egyptian Coptic Christians for their alleged involvement in an anti-Islam video.
> 
> The crude production posted on YouTube has sparked violent protests and riots across the Muslim world for its depiction of the Prophet Muhammad.
> 
> It is unclear who made the film, but it has been linked to an Egyptian Coptic Christian living in the United States.
> 
> An arrest warrant has also been issued for US Christian pastor Terry Jones.
> 
> One woman and seven men, including Mr Jones, are accused of "insulting the Islamic religion, insulting the Prophet and inciting sectarian strife", according to the prosecutor's office.
> 
> It said international police agency Interpol would be notified of the warrants. A request will also be filed with US judicial authorities.
> 
> The office added that all the accused could face the death penalty if convicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This country is falling apart at the seams and this is their priority, talk about campaigning early for the next election


All this is doing is giving this really pathetic, and weak production a level of fame it would otherwise never have achieved. They are playing directly into the hands of the producers of this film, and I guess those responsible cannot believe there luck, and the success they have achieved in creating religious intolerence and violence. I work with a lot of Muslims, decent people with a lot of common sense and they are as shocked as I am about this level of stupidity. Yesterday 8 South Africans died in Baghdad from a suicide bomber who mistaked them as Americans, in a attack done in response to this film. The irony of that is that with all our issues in SA in the past and present, including apartheid, we have the most tolerant community in the world when it comes to religion, and in our country Christians and Muslims cooperate closely and has always done so. I can vouch for what SA Muslims thinks of all this!


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## MaidenScotland

When asked if I am American I am quick to tell people no and usually make sure they realise I am not English but Scottish as for some reason they seem to think we Scots are still at war with the English.. they always start to tell me that I know how the Palestinians feel .. I don't put them right.


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> When asked if I am American I am quick to tell people no and usually make sure they realise I am not English but Scottish as for some reason they seem to think we Scots are still at war with the English.. they always start to tell me that I know how the Palestinians feel .. I don't put them right.


They've watched Braveheart :tongue1:


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## Whitedesert

MaidenScotland said:


> When asked if I am American I am quick to tell people no and usually make sure they realise I am not English but Scottish as for some reason they seem to think we Scots are still at war with the English.. they always start to tell me that I know how the Palestinians feel .. I don't put them right.


 i would not put it right as well, even if they though I was Irish. Somehow Scottish, Irish and surprisingly Welsh works well if you want to be like Switzerland. Nowadays I'd especially do that if I was an American living outside the US and in the Middle east, or Asian Muslim countries. We are all Anglo Saxens, fortunately or unfortuantely!


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## Monty B

Whitedesert said:


> All this is doing is giving this really pathetic, and weak production a level of fame it would otherwise never have achieved. They are playing directly into the hands of the producers of this film, and I guess those responsible cannot believe there luck, and the success they have achieved in creating religious intolerence and violence. I work with a lot of Muslims, decent people with a lot of common sense and they are as shocked as I am about this level of stupidity. Yesterday 8 South Africans died in Baghdad from a suicide bomber who mistaked them as Americans, in a attack done in response to this film. The irony of that is that with all our issues in SA in the past and present, including apartheid, we have the most tolerant community in the world when it comes to religion, and in our country Christians and Muslims cooperate closely and has always done so. I can vouch for what SA Muslims thinks of all this!


I agree That is something we have done right!


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## MaidenScotland

*Here we go again*

France will temporarily close its embassies and schools in 20 countries on Friday after a French magazine published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, a move it fears will further inflame tensions after the recent release of an anti-Islam video.


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## expatagogo

If Egypt ever intends to be a democracy (and I don't believe it's capable of it, at least now now or in the near future), people need to pull up their big kid pants and grow a thicker skin. Part and parcel to democracy is the difference of opinions.


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## hurghadapat

expatagogo said:


> If Egypt ever intends to be a democracy (and I don't believe it's capable of it, at least now now or in the near future), people need to pull up their big kid pants and grow a thicker skin. Part and parcel to democracy is the difference of opinions.


Dread to think what they would do if someone made a film like The Life of Brian about the muslims...tolerance is something they need to learn about and learn fast as for democracy tbh don't even think they know what the word means in reality.


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## charleen

I think for now I will be Antartican.....yeah that sounds good. No one ever gets trouble from anyone from Antartica....:eyebrows:


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> They've watched Braveheart :tongue1:




Yes they have and I have often been asked to shout Freedom.. I kid you not,


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## Eco-Mariner

*Justice*



[I said:


> MaidenScotland;901788]Authorities in Cairo have ordered the arrest of seven US-based Egyptian Coptic Christians for their alleged involvement in an anti-Islam video.
> 
> It said international police agency Interpol would be notified of the warrants. A request will also be filed with US judicial authorities.
> 
> The office added that all the accused could face the death penalty if convicted.[/I]QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I think that when brought to justice, anyone found inciting riots causing multiple international deaths should be set an example.
> 
> The death penalty in these countries seem very appropriate for the seriousness of the crime.
> 
> It may stop others plying these films etc. if they knew the real penalties they await..... For the world is a smaller place now that the social media and global security centres can find them out.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


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## MaidenScotland

Eco-Mariner said:


> [I said:
> 
> 
> 
> MaidenScotland;901788]Authorities in Cairo have ordered the arrest of seven US-based Egyptian Coptic Christians for their alleged involvement in an anti-Islam video.
> 
> It said international police agency Interpol would be notified of the warrants. A request will also be filed with US judicial authorities.
> 
> The office added that all the accused could face the death penalty if convicted.[/I]QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I think that when brought to justice, anyone found inciting riots causing multiple international deaths should be set an example.
> 
> The death penalty in these countries seem very appropriate for the seriousness of the crime.
> 
> It may stop others plying these films etc. if they knew the real penalties they await..... For the world is a smaller place now that the social media and global security centres can find them out.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I don't believe in the death penalty full stop.. it's not a punishment its revenge.
> If these people are brought back to Egypt they will never get a fair trial... and that in its self will only add to the problems this country is going through.
Click to expand...


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## Eco-Mariner

It sets an example though. 
Others might think twice before attempting such and these may be draconian laws but they exist.


Eco-Mariner


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## MaidenScotland

Eco-Mariner said:


> It sets an example though.
> Others might think twice before attempting such and these may be draconian laws but they exist.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner




nice one, kill someone to set an example...and of course it doesn't work.. 
USA otal Number of Death Row Inmates as of April 1, 2012: 3,170


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## hurghadapat

Eco-Mariner said:


> It sets an example though.
> Others might think twice before attempting such and these may be draconian laws but they exist.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth never works as an example for others....and who are the guilty ones here..the ones who made the video (which bear in mind had not been made recently) or the ones who chose to bring it to light around about the time of 9/11....as i said in another post tolerance must be learnt by the muslims...many other religions are critisized,ridiculed and even persecuted but don't incite the people to commit attrocities.

As Voltare said:-

Only those who make you believe the absurdaties can make you commit the attrociates...and IMHO never a truer word has been spoken.


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## PoleDancer

MaidenScotland said:


> they seem to think we Scots are still at war with the English..


We are aren't we?

Well if not, we certainly should be, at least until you apologise and pay reparations for Gordon Brown.

;-)


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## MaidenScotland

PoleDancer said:


> We are aren't we?
> 
> Well if not, we certainly should be, at least until you apologise and pay reparations for Gordon Brown.
> 
> ;-)





Who voted him in?


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## PoleDancer

The electorate of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.


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## MaidenScotland

PoleDancer said:


> The electorate of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.


Not me then lol


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## hurghadapat

PoleDancer said:


> We are aren't we?
> 
> Well if not, we certainly should be, at least until you apologise and pay reparations for Gordon Brown.
> 
> ;-)



Lol....we can always rebuild hadrians wall.


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## expatagogo

Of all of the anti-Islam videos on youtube (and there are plenty), why such a fuss about that one?

Of all of the people who are responsible for it - from its creation and promotion - why are the only people who are the subject of such righteous indignation those that are completely unavailable for prosecution? 

What about the Egyptian Sheikh who took that innocuous 12 minute youtube video and put it on television, drawing attention to it (which was not there before) and the Saudi television station owner? Did they not promote the video? Where is their responsibility?

If someone puts a loaded gun in my hand and I use it to kill someone, who is responsible? Me or the person who gave me the gun?

This isn't rocket science, people. _It's deliberately selective_. It's obvious that the only people who hold no responsibility for the death and destruction that were and are a direct result of their actions are ... well, I can't name a religion lest I be in big, fat trouble, too.


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## Whitedesert

MaidenScotland said:


> Who voted him in?


 He, he, seems the Scots have been managing the purse strings for a while now in London. That means the war has already been won really, while nobody was looking. We will know the moment Picadilly Circus gets a distinctive Mc Gregors tartan colour scheme...


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## PoleDancer

Whitedesert said:


> He, he, seems the Scots have been *mis*managing the purse strings for a while now in London.


ftfy


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## Eco-Mariner

*Eye for an Eye ?*



hurghadapat said:


> An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth never works as an example for others....and who are the guilty ones here..the ones who made the video (which bear in mind had not been made recently) or the ones who chose to bring it to light around about the time of 9/11....as i said in another post tolerance must be learnt by the muslims...many other religions are critisized, ridiculed and even persecuted but don't incite the people to commit attrocities.


Actually the deterent in the US is the death penaly in some states and many Death Row inmates would probably not have thought they would be caught let alone sentenced. Of course it does not stop the murders.

However, the Middle East has such laws and penalties so why not apply them. Extradite the culprits so they cannot escape the penalties. Actually I'm all for public flogging for the right crimes. That will start another row I suppose, but look at the consequenses of Morsi letting it go as though it was of no interest to his Brothers. 

Chaos and mayhem looms.


Eco-Mariner.


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## MaidenScotland

Eco-Mariner said:


> Actually the deterent in the US is the death penaly in some states and many Death Row inmates would probably not have thought they would be caught let alone sentenced. Of course it does not stop the murders.
> 
> However, the Middle East has such laws and penalties so why not apply them. Extradite the culprits so they cannot escape the penalties. Actually I'm all for public flogging for the right crimes. That will start another row I suppose, but look at the consequenses of Morsi letting it go as though it was of no interest to his Brothers.
> 
> Chaos and mayhem looms.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.





Meaning you can be extradited and tried in the ME for something they think as crime even if it is now against the laws of the land you are in? We would all be living under Sharia law regardless of religion/geography Now that is asking for big trouble.


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> Meaning you can be extradited and tried in the ME for something they think as crime even if it is now against the laws of the land you are in? Now that is asking for big trouble.


Saudi Arabia tries, convicts, and sentences people to death for crimes committed in other countries.

Lebanese man avoids execution for witchcraft - The National

_Sibat, a 49-year-old father of five, made predictions on an Arab satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut. He was arrested by the Saudi religious police during his pilgrimage to the holy city of Medina in May 2008 and sentenced to death last November for witchcraft._


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## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> Saudi Arabia tries, convicts, and sentences people to death for crimes committed in other countries.
> 
> Lebanese man avoids execution for witchcraft - The National
> 
> _Sibat, a 49-year-old father of five, made predictions on an Arab satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut. He was arrested by the Saudi religious police during his pilgrimage to the holy city of Medina in May 2008 and sentenced to death last November for witchcraft._




More reason to stop it spreading...


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## DeadGuy

expatagogo said:


> Of all of the anti-Islam videos on youtube (and there are plenty), why such a fuss about that one?
> 
> Of all of the people who are responsible for it - from its creation and promotion - why are the only people who are the subject of such righteous indignation those that are completely unavailable for prosecution?
> 
> What about the Egyptian Sheikh who took that innocuous 12 minute youtube video and put it on television, drawing attention to it (which was not there before) and the Saudi television station owner? Did they not promote the video? Where is their responsibility?
> 
> If someone puts a loaded gun in my hand and I use it to kill someone, who is responsible? Me or the person who gave me the gun?
> 
> This isn't rocket science, people. _It's deliberately selective_. It's obvious that the only people who hold no responsibility for the death and destruction that were and are a direct result of their actions are ... well, I can't name a religion lest I be in big, fat trouble, too.


You're a bloody Yank! You already are in a_ big, fat trouble_ :eyebrows:

You Western infidel ba$stards! How dare you question a freely elected government decision and criticize it!!! 

You're only focusing on the negative side of the story! Cause I am certain that they already took legal actions against the idiot that aired it in Egypt while demanding to KILL those who made it, along with that d!ckhead that tore the Bible and said he'll give it to his grandchildren to urinate all over it, AND the a$$hole/s that the PM said he/they paid for the peaceful angry protesters too, and they did that before they start chasing people that they know they'll never be able to arrest! But you idiots are just being Islamophobic :eyebrows:

Humanity is great, human stupidity is much more interesting though


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## Lanason

hurghadapat said:


> Lol....we can always rebuild hadrians wall.


good idea - then dig a trench and float Scotland towards the North Pole


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## MaidenScotland

Lanason said:


> good idea - then dig a trench and float Scotland towards the North Pole




On a sea of whiskey


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> On a sea of whiskey


When can I apply for the passport


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## Qsw

expatagogo said:


> Of all of the anti-Islam videos on youtube (and there are plenty), why such a fuss about that one?
> 
> Of all of the people who are responsible for it - from its creation and promotion - why are the only people who are the subject of such righteous indignation those that are completely unavailable for prosecution?
> 
> What about the Egyptian Sheikh who took that innocuous 12 minute youtube video and put it on television, drawing attention to it (which was not there before) and the Saudi television station owner? Did they not promote the video? Where is their responsibility?
> 
> If someone puts a loaded gun in my hand and I use it to kill someone, who is responsible? Me or the person who gave me the gun?
> 
> This isn't rocket science, people. _It's deliberately selective_. It's obvious that the only people who hold no responsibility for the death and destruction that were and are a direct result of their actions are ... well, I can't name a religion lest I be in big, fat trouble, too.


I thought the protesters who were violent were arrested and are charged with crimes. Am I incorrect about that?

And if you're going to blame a religion for violence, etc. then you will have to blame almost all of them I think.

Also, that video is hardly innocuous. It is a direct attack on a religion in the most offensive manner possible. That is normal in the West, but it's not something that is acceptable in the ME. As for the Sheikh who made this video public knowledge, in my opinion he shouldn't have aired it, but by that logic should nobody ever air anything they fear could be offensive? Did the Sheikh advocate violence in response to the video? In that case I agree, he should be charged. I haven't followed his role in this issue, and I dislike and disagree with the actions I've heard he's taken. But I haven't heard that he advocated violence yet. 

I dislike the government response to this incident, I deplore any violence in response to it. This video should have vanished into oblivion, but now we have to deal with the consequences of it. I guess some people are starting to pick black and white sides of the story.

I don't agree with giving people who make this kind of material the death penalty, but I don't mind a travel ban right now. Other countries such as the UK impose travel bans, that is essentially what this is. Other countries also try others in absentia according to their own laws, the U.S. being one of them.

As for Muslims being too sensitive, that's true at the moment from what I can see, but the correct response to that in my opinion isn't to try and antagonize them further. Offensive movies/art only strengthens the hand of extremists. I am a moderate/liberal Muslim, and every time I see these videos/material I just know they will be used to reinforce views that the West is openly attacking Islam.


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## Qsw

After reading up some more, I have a clearer picture of what the Sheikh and the TV station did exactly. So I do agree they should also be punished according to the law.

I am against flaming up sectarian tensions against any religion. This topic is too hot to be considered a part of free speech like it is in the West, so there should be some punishment for Egyptians who decide to pursue that path, it's a complex subject that I'm not comfortable discussing in terms of legal repercussions, since I'm not too knowledgeable about that. It would have to be reviewed on a case by case basis.


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## Eco-Mariner

Surely a crime was committed in the US by an Egyptian and his associates in inciting racial hatred. It was even dubbed to make it more so.

We have a saying.... If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.


Eco-Mariner.


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## txlstewart

Eco-Mariner said:


> Surely a crime was committed in the US by an Egyptian and his associates in inciting racial hatred. It was even dubbed to make it more so.
> 
> We have a saying.... If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


I respectfully don't agree. I don't approve of the "film" in any way, but in America we have free speech. I have the option to filter what I listen to or read--we all do here. Anyone living here I
Should not be subjected to another country's laws.....


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## expatagogo

Eco-Mariner said:


> Surely a crime was committed in the US by an Egyptian and his associates in inciting racial hatred. It was even dubbed to make it more so.
> 
> We have a saying.... If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


FYI, Islam is a religion, not a race.

What you're saying is that one person on one side of the planet should watch their Ps and Qs lest someone on the other side of the planet might become offended and have a violent, yes murderous, reaction?

Really?

And who's the judge and jury on what's allowed and what's not allowed when it comes to freedom of speech, which is a guarantee in the US Constitution? That's right, in America, we are entitled to have an opinion and express it. That means, if my opinion is that I'm Muslim, I'm allowed to have that opinion and I'm allowed to express it. There is no freedom of religion (which is another right) without freedom of expression; they're part and parcel to one another.

I'm certainly sympathetic to the plight of Islam in large parts of the world, however the US is not one of those places. Have you seen or heard of a riot/demonstration/protest of this 12 minute video that took place in the US? Let me answer that for you: NO. It's not like they don't have the right to do it. In fact, religiously motivated protests happen all of the time in the US. Don't believe me? Read up on the Rev. Fred Phelps:

Fred Phelps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rev. hates everyone equally and, wow, does he use his freedom of expression to make that clear. 

One more thing. Here's where I'm confused. God (Allah; there are lots of names for God in lots of languages) is ridiculed and criticized all of the time. How is it that He needs someone to defend Him? How is it that one _person_ is revered more than God Himself? What about people with no religion at all (and, statistically, that's more than half of the population of the entire planet)? Are they subject to the same fear of offense and incitement? Or no? Where does it end?


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## expatagogo

Oh, and before anyone says Muslims in the US haven't protested because they're afraid to, don't.

Dearborn, Michigan has the largest population of Arabs and Muslims outside of the Middle East. Not New York City, Dearborn, Michigan. Here is the Muslim community's reaction to that 12 minutes:

Muslim leaders to discuss response to anti-Islam film | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

_Baydoun said while the Jones and the film's producer have their First Amendment rights, their actions are "provocative" and costing lives. He said, however, there is no justification for the violence that has resulted from the film.

"This provocation is hurting the United States," Baydoun said Wednesday. "It's costing people's lives, and we feel compelled to speak out. We want people to know it's hurting our national interests."

Baydoun added that the film and the resulting protests from it have created concern "about the perception of Muslims around the world and the public perception of Americans in the Muslim world."_

That's right, the people who enjoy freedom of expression in the US would rather find a way to stop the hate. Imagine that?

A few years ago, residents of Dearborn were complaining about the Adhan and wanted it silenced, so they did what people in a democracy do and took it to their local town council. The response? We don't tell the churches not to ring bells.

Think about it.

In my opinion, this is not about 12 minutes. I remember when I was in elementary school, the evil villain was Communism and, specifically, the USSR. We would have "nuke drills" and students would all be scooted into the hallway, where we would crouch down and cover our heads with our arms and hands (like that would save us?) because, you know, those "Russian commies" wanted to "nuke America." The "Russian commies" are no more, so there has to be another evil villain, and that happens to be Islam. And Muslims are falling for it. It's so sad.


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## MaidenScotland

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/o...eadlines&emc=edit_th_20120919&moc.semityn.www


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/o...eadlines&emc=edit_th_20120919&moc.semityn.www


I doubt MEMRI is the best source for any non-biased discourse on Islam.  but then, what do you expect from Friedman?


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> I doubt MEMRI is the best source for any non-biased discourse on Islam.  but then, what do you expect from Friedman?




Personally I think any discussion on any religion tends to be biased...


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## Qsw

expatagogo said:


> FYI, Islam is a religion, not a race.
> 
> .....
> 
> One more thing. Here's where I'm confused. God (Allah; there are lots of names for God in lots of languages) is ridiculed and criticized all of the time. How is it that He needs someone to defend Him? How is it that one _person_ is revered more than God Himself? What about people with no religion at all (and, statistically, that's more than half of the population of the entire planet)? Are they subject to the same fear of offense and incitement? Or no? Where does it end?


Islam is not a race, but bigotry can apply to a religious group just as it can to racial group. I think that's what most people mean when they use racism to describe this. Just as one can be racist towards a nationality, for example, in my opinion.

God doesn't need anyone to defend God, that doesn't mean that people who follow a religion won't get offended when key religious figures are attacked in such offensive ways. Also Muslims specifically avoid depicting Prophet Muhammad partly so that he does not become an object of worship. 

I like the American model of freedom of speech, but I don't think it works everywhere. Certainly not here. 

Also, while I agree for the most part Muslims in America don't face many problems, it's hardly a trouble free environment. My personal experience is positive, but I've heard of problems, and obviously the hate crimes that pop up occasionally. There was a problem when Keith Ellison decided he wanted to swear on the Quran instead of the Bible.

These protests would have happened even if it wasn't a U.S. film probably. It's about Muslims and the West in general, since other regions don't usually make inflammatory material on Islam from what I know. For many here the U.S. is a villain as well, and has taken actions to reinforce that view, so both sides are falling for it. 

I deplore violence in general and especially in this type of case. So hopefully this won't keep happening. But the results of this type of speech can cause harm to others, and this should be kept in mind. This "movie" is a clear case of trying to incite hatred. There should be repercussions to that in my opinion and my view is the same regardless of who is the target.


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## charleen

These protests would have happened even if it wasn't a U.S. filmThen why didn't anything really happen after the French paper did all those drawings ? No one ran and stormed the French embassy as far as I know...Why are they so angry with the American fil but not with the French drawings? ...


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## MaidenScotland

charleen said:


> These protests would have happened even if it wasn't a U.S. filmThen why didn't anything really happen after the French paper did all those drawings ? No one ran and stormed the French embassy as far as I know...Why are they so angry with the American fil but not with the French drawings? ...




French schools and embassies will all be closed to morrow.. Friday the day of protest


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## Qsw

There was an angry backlash when the Danish cartoons came out, and when other materials came out. Perhaps some people will protest the French cartoons too, who knows.

Westerners have become accustomed to being offended, but religion here is a very sensitive topic. I don't think people in the ME are ready for no holds barred freedom of speech. I'm used to it, but I don't think it will happen in the ME. Leadership and education are needed to prevent protests from becoming violent. 

Democracy and freedom of speech aren't one size fits all. This film was made in the U.S., if the Egyptian government decides to ban people from travelling to Egypt based on their usage of their freedom of expression, so be it. Here is an example of the UK doing the same:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/named-and-shamed-the-16-barred-from-uk-1679127.html

Granted the Egyptian government is going further, but these are Egyptian citizens too (I guess some of them might be, they have probably abandoned their citizenship) so they can use Egyptian law to charge them. Should they be arrested? I don't personally think so, since they are doing this in a place where it's legal, but I'm not an expert on this subject. I do think they should face repercussions since I'm sure they understand the implications of what they've done, and that could include being arrested. The Egyptian government has come up with laws to prosecute this kind of expression, presumably to prevent sectarian tensions from flaring up. 

Anybody who commits or incites violence should be charged. 

And countries (including Western ones) are now prosecuting people according to their laws even if they don't reside there, there are multiple cases of that happening. I don't like it, but I don't think it will stop.


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## Eco-Mariner

Eco-Mariner said:


> Surely a crime was committed in the US by an Egyptian and his associates in inciting racial hatred. It was even dubbed to make it more so.



Apologies. I should have stated 'religious' and racial hatred. 
I agree with everyone's idea of freedom of speach but that comes with responsibilities. What may be acceptable in the US could be far from acceptable on the other side of the globe. Today's technology allow messages and film to travel in milliseconds around the world with no compassion or restriction.

It is a tool that can be abused as we've seen here, but also a good tool in exposing tyrants and fraudsters as with the Arab Spring uprisings. My message for those who used it wisely is not to get complacent. For those who use it to spread hatred, beware you are easily found and made accountable.


Eco-Mariner.


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## txlstewart

Qsw said:


> Islam is not a race, but bigotry can apply to a religious group just as it can to racial group. I think that's what most people mean when they use racism to describe this. Just as one can be racist towards a nationality, for example, in my opinion.
> 
> God doesn't need anyone to defend God, that doesn't mean that people who follow a religion won't get offended when key religious figures are attacked in such offensive ways. Also Muslims specifically avoid depicting Prophet Muhammad partly so that he does not become an object of worship.
> 
> I like the American model of freedom of speech, but I don't think it works everywhere. Certainly not here.
> 
> Also, while I agree for the most part Muslims in America don't face many problems, it's hardly a trouble free environment. My personal experience is positive, but I've heard of problems, and obviously the hate crimes that pop up occasionally. There was a problem when Keith Ellison decided he wanted to swear on the Quran instead of the Bible.
> 
> These protests would have happened even if it wasn't a U.S. film probably. It's about Muslims and the West in general, since other regions don't usually make inflammatory material on Islam from what I know. For many here the U.S. is a villain as well, and has taken actions to reinforce that view, so both sides are falling for it.
> 
> I deplore violence in general and especially in this type of case. So hopefully this won't keep happening. But the results of this type of speech can cause harm to others, and this should be kept in mind. This "movie" is a clear case of trying to incite hatred. There should be repercussions to that in my opinion and my view is the same regardless of who is the target.


The film was allegedly made by an Egyptian who happens to reside in the US.


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## Qsw

From what I've been reading he's already involved or has been involved in criminal activity, and may have done this as a way to escape being charged. It's quite scummy considering they are doing this knowing it could backlash on communities here.

I just hope Egyptians do not see this as reflective of Americans in general. I think most realize this is just a fringe group, or groups, that are trying to cause tension. Hopefully the majority of both sides remain calm.


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## charleen

MaidenScotland said:


> French schools and embassies will all be closed to morrow.. Friday the day of protest


schools are always closed on fridays in an islamic run country...as far as the embassies they are only doing it as they saw what happened before but I have not heard any noise about it yet. seems not as much outrage as happened before, not so quick to jump now..


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## expatagogo

aykalam said:


> I doubt MEMRI is the best source for any non-biased discourse on Islam.  but then, what do you expect from Friedman?


Shooting the messenger does not change the message.

Maybe it has to come from "an Egyptian"?

An Open Letter to the United States of America - By Mahmoud Salem | Foreign Policy

_As an Egyptian, the most fascinating aspect of all of this has to be our effect on the American elections, and how we suddenly became an important campaign issue in the snoozefest that is Obama vs. Romney. Isn't it crazy that Obama -- he of the message of peace and understanding with the Muslim world -- must now contend with Islamist rage fueled by those whom he -- and a million thinkers, analysts, and pundits - has referred to as a moderate Islamic group, the Muslim Brotherhood. That's the same moderate Islamic group whose people met with his people more than 14 times this past year and a half, who convinced them that America should support them because Salafis and liberals are unpredictable and unreliable, and because the Brothers alone can bring peace to the region. *That's the same moderate Islamic group that actually called for and facilitated the protests at the U.S. Embassy on the anniversary of 9/11, all while pretending to have nothing to do with it to the English-speaking world. *The same moderate Islamic group that now controls nearly all aspects of the Egyptian government, and the source of his current dilemma.
_


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## MaidenScotland

charleen said:


> schools are always closed on fridays in an islamic run country...as far as the embassies they are only doing it as they saw what happened before but I have not heard any noise about it yet. seems not as much outrage as happened before, not so quick to jump now..


Muslims who want to protest aren't restricted to living in an Islamic country... embassies and people of different religions are in all countries, ie the could go and protest at the French embassy in the UK..which is open on a Friday.. same with French schools in London,

Schools were closed for safety reasons,


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## MaidenScotland

charleen said:


> schools are always closed on fridays in an islamic run country...as far as the embassies they are only doing it as they saw what happened before but I have not heard any noise about it yet. seems not as much outrage as happened before, not so quick to jump now..




It is all over French tv,


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## DeadGuy

Qsw said:


> After reading up some more, I have a clearer picture of what the Sheikh and the TV station did exactly. So I do agree they should also be punished according to the law.
> 
> I am against flaming up sectarian tensions against any religion. This topic is too hot to be considered a part of free speech like it is in the West, so there should be some punishment for Egyptians who decide to pursue that path, it's a complex subject that I'm not comfortable discussing in terms of legal repercussions, since I'm not too knowledgeable about that. It would have to be reviewed on a case by case basis.


I admire and salute you for deciding to read more about the whole "incident" :clap2:

However we all have to admit that this is a major part of Muslims' problems around the world, whenever anything happens, they get defensive, then aggressive, and instead of trying to learn more about the situation like you did, they keep going on and on about what they "believe" others did "wrong" instead of simply taking all facts into consideration, including the fact that violence and rudeness towards everyone else does no good for anyone, specially Muslims themselves 

And that's why most, if not all non Muslims keep saying that Muslims need to BE more tolerant instead of just claiming to be so!


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## DeadGuy

Eco-Mariner said:


> Apologies. I should have stated 'religious' and racial hatred.
> I agree with everyone's idea of freedom of speach but that comes with responsibilities. What may be acceptable in the US could be far from acceptable on the other side of the globe. Today's technology allow messages and film to travel in milliseconds around the world with no compassion or restriction.
> 
> It is a tool that can be abused as we've seen here, but also a good tool in exposing tyrants and fraudsters as with the Arab Spring uprisings. My message for those who used it wisely is not to get complacent. For those who use it to spread hatred, beware you are easily found and made accountable.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


But it is _acceptable on the other side of the globe_, you can say/do anything that attacks/insults any other religion in here and you would walk away with it :eyebrows:


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## aykalam

expatagogo said:


> Shooting the messenger does not change the message.
> 
> Maybe it has to come from "an Egyptian"?
> 
> An Open Letter to the United States of America - By Mahmoud Salem | Foreign Policy
> 
> _As an Egyptian, the most fascinating aspect of all of this has to be our effect on the American elections, and how we suddenly became an important campaign issue in the snoozefest that is Obama vs. Romney. Isn't it crazy that Obama -- he of the message of peace and understanding with the Muslim world -- must now contend with Islamist rage fueled by those whom he -- and a million thinkers, analysts, and pundits - has referred to as a moderate Islamic group, the Muslim Brotherhood. That's the same moderate Islamic group whose people met with his people more than 14 times this past year and a half, who convinced them that America should support them because Salafis and liberals are unpredictable and unreliable, and because the Brothers alone can bring peace to the region. *That's the same moderate Islamic group that actually called for and facilitated the protests at the U.S. Embassy on the anniversary of 9/11, all while pretending to have nothing to do with it to the English-speaking world. *The same moderate Islamic group that now controls nearly all aspects of the Egyptian government, and the source of his current dilemma.
> _


I don't normally shoot at messengers, but after having used their website many times I now distrust anything and anyone that quotes MEMRI as a reliable source. 

Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## aykalam

Spiegel: Following on the heels of the French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo, the German publication Titanic in now also planning a Muhammad cover this month


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> Spiegel: Following on the heels of the French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo, the German publication Titanic in now also planning a Muhammad cover this month




I expect what they are saying.. is up yours,


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## expatagogo

aykalam said:


> I don't normally shoot at messengers, but after having used their website many times I now distrust anything and anyone that quotes MEMRI as a reliable source.
> 
> Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk


Google. It's your friend.

MEMRI – A Vital Component in the U.S. War on Terror – Board of Advisors and Directors


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## aykalam

expatagogo said:


> Google. It's your friend.
> 
> MEMRI – A Vital Component in the U.S. War on Terror – Board of Advisors and Directors


I rest my case


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## Qsw

DeadGuy said:


> I admire and salute you for deciding to read more about the whole "incident" :clap2:
> 
> However we all have to admit that this is a major part of Muslims' problems around the world, whenever anything happens, they get defensive, then aggressive, and instead of trying to learn more about the situation like you did, they keep going on and on about what they "believe" others did "wrong" instead of simply taking all facts into consideration, including the fact that violence and rudeness towards everyone else does no good for anyone, specially Muslims themselves
> 
> And that's why most, if not all non Muslims keep saying that Muslims need to BE more tolerant instead of just claiming to be so!


What you're saying is only reflective of a tiny minority of Muslims. The vast majority don't behave in the way you described, and are tolerant, rational people. 

Almost all societies and religions have problems with an intolerant minority.


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## MaidenScotland

Qsw said:


> What you're saying is only reflective of a tiny minority of Muslims. The vast majority don't behave in the way you described, and are tolerant, rational people.
> 
> Almost all societies and religions have problems with an intolerant minority.




Of course it's the minority but man being the way we are we tend to see the picture that is in front of them and the picture we often see if not a pretty one that is why I said that many people ask why the majority don't speak out loudly about what is happening


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> Of course it's the minority but man being the way we are we tend to see the picture that is in front of them and the picture we often see if not a pretty one that is why I said that many people ask why the majority don't speak out loudly about what is happening


How can they without being accused of blasphemy themselves?


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## MaidenScotland

Alber Saber Ayyad is an Egyptian pro-democracy blogger who ran a Facebook page for atheists. When a neighbor discovered Saber's connection to the page, word spread and on 13 September 2012, an angry mob formed at Saber's house. The police arrived, and instead of dispersing the mob and arresting those threatening to burn the house down, they arrested Saber and accused him of the crime of insulting Islam.


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## MaidenScotland

MaidenScotland said:


> Of course it's the minority but man being the way we are we tend to see the picture that is in front of them and the picture we often see if not a pretty one that is why I said that many people ask why the majority don't speak out loudly about what is happening




good point..


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## DeadGuy

Qsw said:


> What you're saying is only reflective of a tiny minority of Muslims. The vast majority don't behave in the way you described, and are tolerant, rational people.
> 
> Almost all societies and religions have problems with an intolerant minority.


That's a very debatable statement I'm afraid 

But you're right, _almost all societies and religions have problems with an intolerant minority_, but the fact that those _tiny minority_ of Muslims use violence, and KILLING others as a common _reaction _is something that makes the Muslim _minorities_ a bit...........Unique


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