# Obtaining Portuguese Citizenship through descent



## browntwice

My grandfather from my mother's side is portuguese, My grandmother from my mother's side is nigerian. Though I have been living in the Uk for some years now and wondering what is the possibility of applying for portuguese nationality on the grounds that my grandfather is from portuguese. Any good advice will be appreciated. thanks


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## Sonho

It is possible but there are a lot of hoops to jump through...and just when you think you have done everything necessary, they change the game on you.
I am going through the process now.
Go speak to the PT embassy about it. You will need:
1)official copies of your Grandfather's birth certificate
2) official copies of your mother's birth certificate
3) Official copies of your birth certificate
4)criminal records from every single country you have lived in
5) proof that you speak Portuguese --ie take the official state approved test

I think that is it.
Good luck.


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## browntwice

Alright thnx Sonho
sounds like a real long process though no lie.

Am not sure how possible it will be to locate my grandfather's B-C because he was born in 1940 and my mum was born in nigeria in the 60's. Still need to get my round this. So u implying I have to be able to speak portuguese language too pal.


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## MarcoCarrico

browntwice said:


> So u implying I have to be able to speak portuguese language too pal.


If you want to be portuguese then you are supposed to speak portuguese, makes sense or am I missing something here?


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## Catx

arq.MarcoCarrico said:


> If you want to be portuguese then you are supposed to speak portuguese, makes sense or am I missing something here?


Marco, I could not have put it better, myself :clap2:

Good luck to the original poster and, while I have residencia here, I would not dream of applying for citizenship without being fluent in Portuguese.

It is possible to acquire all birth cerificates, once you have enough information about the details of the person born, i.e. name, date and place of birth, parentage etcetera.


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## browntwice

thanks to y'all

impossible is nothing!


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## LemmingOverlord

*obtaining*

You can acquire Portuguese citizenship up to the 3rd generation removed (children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren), so you should be ok.

It is common sense that when you acquire nationality you actually know the language, but I think that this is a bit of a blurry area. There wasn't an actual test until very recently and you can find instructions (in portuguese of course) on the Ministry of Education's site, but the dang site won't let me paste URLs as this is my first post... lol.

Anyway, you'll need to talk to the consulate about this and acquire a long list of documents such as birth (and death, if the case) certificates of your grandfather AND the direct line of descendants that ends in you (ie: your bloodline).

Documents (or authenticated copies thereof) must have been issued within the last 6 months of the application for citizenship.

You also cannot have a prior conviction of a crime punishable by a prison sentence of 3 years or more, under Portuguese law. That's a big no-no, I hear.

I'm also sure there's a fee to pay. So really, don't do anything until talking to the nearest Portuguese consulate. At the rate things are changing it could be dead simple or just full of red tape and hoops to jump through.

Just a side note: there's a slight difference between the UK and Portugal. For Britons living abroad there's "citizenship" and "nationality", two slightly different concepts. In Portugal people talk about obtaining "citizenship" but actually mean "dual nationality", if they are originally of foreign stock.

The portuguese citizenship will add to your current one. It won't replace it, afaik.

When I got mine they took a bit of a snob attitude at me not having a single portuguese name... they actually required that you have at least a single Portuguese christian or surname. I had to explain to the clerk that "David" was Portuguese enough (although if you ask a native to define "Portuguese", they'll start laughing at you).

That's all I've got.

I think your real problem will be the Nigerian BC. Talk to the Foreign Office, they should be able to help as there are surely thousands of Nigerian emigrees who moved to the UK in the 60s and 70s.


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## browntwice

Thnx lemmingoverload

Advice taken on board, thnx and appretiate it.


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## -mia-

LemmingOverlord said:


> Just a side note: there's a slight difference between the UK and Portugal. For Britons living abroad there's "citizenship" and "nationality", two slightly different concepts. In Portugal people talk about obtaining "citizenship" but actually mean "dual nationality", if they are originally of foreign stock.


In the case of Portugal (and most other countries) citizenship & nationality are the same thing. You have "dual citizenaship" or "dual nationality", same thing. Check with your country if they accept dual nationality/citizenship. There are countries that don't' allow it. 



LemmingOverlord said:


> When I got mine they took a bit of a snob attitude at me not having a single portuguese name... they actually required that you have at least a single Portuguese christian or surname. I had to explain to the clerk that "David" was Portuguese enough (although if you ask a native to define "Portuguese", they'll start laughing at you).


That's just silly really I have cousins born & breed in Portugal who are named David.
It's not super common but it's not unheard of. Even back in 1600s we had David Melgueiro. David Mourão-Ferreira was born in the '20s. Go back & tell them they don't know what they are talking about!  
ETA: & the economist from the 1800s David Ricardo. 

Never mind the fact that kids are now being called Brittany & Stephanie in Portugal. 




LemmingOverlord said:


> I think your real problem will be the Nigerian BC. Talk to the Foreign Office, they should be able to help as there are surely thousands of Nigerian emigrees who moved to the UK in the 60s and 70s.


It's possible (and let's hope this is true) that the OP's mother was registered with the Portuguese authorities in Nigeria. What year was she born? If so, it should be in the national registry.


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## browntwice

Mia Thnx 4 the inputs

She was born in 1965, in eastern nigeria.


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## siobhanwf

Sometimes it is in the way the name is pronounced. the Portuguese A is longer than the English and not rounder.

Hence pronounce it more like daaavid as the A in DIA.

The name is certainly used in Portugal.

There is even a Portuguese Football player playing for some Scottish team at present.

David Mendes da Silva (born 11 October 1986) is a Portuguese football midfielder


A singer David Fonseca

A painter David Rosado, 

An actor David Carreira


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## -mia-

browntwice said:


> Mia Thnx 4 the inputs
> 
> She was born in 1965, in eastern nigeria.


I think it's quite possible she is registered. Try to online the Portal do Cidadao and see if there is any reference to her or your grandfather. 
Portal do Cidadão - Página Inicial 


Good luck!


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## -mia-

siobhanwf said:


> Sometimes it is in the way the name is pronounced. the Portuguese A is longer than the English and not rounder.
> 
> Hence pronounce it more like daaavid as the A in DIA.
> 
> The name is certainly used in Portugal.
> 
> There is even a Portuguese Football player playing for some Scottish team at present.
> 
> David Mendes da Silva (born 11 October 1986) is a Portuguese football midfielder
> 
> 
> A singer David Fonseca
> 
> A painter David Rosado,
> 
> An actor David Carreira


Yes in Portuguese it's Daah-veed

Those are all younger people which I didn't mention as it could have been said it's "new" name. It's not.


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## siobhanwf

-mia- said:


> Yes in Portuguese it's Daah-veed
> 
> Those are all younger people which I didn't mention as it could have been said it's "new" name. It's not.


Most definitely not Mia as it is a biblical name. Well done on the phonetics 
Easy to search if you go into any of the portuguese government site and put in the name....lots of references


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## -mia-

siobhanwf said:


> Most definitely not Mia as it is a biblical name.
> Easy to search if you go into any of the portuguese government site and put in the name....lots of references


Yes. I know. I just don't understand why our friend above got "snickered" at over not having a Portuguese name. I wonder if they weren't just snickering at the way he was pronouncing it.


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## browntwice

good one...did speak to a staff from portuguese consulate and i was told to search google pt for many more info and did not give me that much help by saying they don't deal with queries of that nature at the consulado as its dealt with directly in portugal.


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## -mia-

browntwice said:


> good one...did speak to a staff from portuguese consulate and i was told to search google pt for many more info and did not give me that much help by saying they don't deal with queries of that nature at the consulado as its dealt with directly in portugal.


Yes. You'll probably have to go straight to the national registry. (I believe) You can do most of your search online at portao do cidadao. Portal do Cidadão - Página Inicial. 

You might want to contact the Nigerian consulate too so see how to get your mom's BC.


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## browntwice

thnx 4 the assistance much appreciated 
Yeah I working on the search am not that good with Portuguese language though am getting so not too bad. though searching on the website is alil' tricky as in layout and stuff.

yeah that one I already got is not a big deal on that.


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## browntwice

Please can any of you guys help me get solicitors details in portugal, preferably from porto or lisbon please..


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## acorey

Hi, 

I just got my dual Portuguese citizenship here in the USA. I wanted to leave my experience here as this site helped me piece together some of the info I needed.

My grandfather (dad's side) was born on Sao Miguel in the Azores. 

Mt first step was to gather as much information from my family as I could. I was able to get my grandfathers naturalization papers which listed Portugal as his place of birth. My grandparents marriage certificate from the church in Massachusetts. I found some census info on family tree dot com. I also gathered all of the verbally passed on family info from my father and my Uncle that I could squeeze out of them. This yielded much good intel such as my grandfathers town of birth in the Azores. I guess the moral here is get all of the documentation and info you can get your hands on first.

I then hired a genealogist in the Azores to find my grandfathers birth record form his town in the Azores. I found the genealogist on a genealogical website and after a few emails back and forth I took the plunge and paid him via pay-pal. One nice thing about Portuguese people is that they are by and large honest. So within a couple of weeks I had grandpa's birth record. A certified copy from the Arrifes town hall. It cost me $50 US.

It was only after getting all of this together that I called the Portuguese consulate here in Los Angeles for help. I spoke to the consular officer over the phone and explained to him what I wanted to do. He informed me that I could get citizenship on my own but that it would be much easier to do if MY FATHER GOT HIS FIRST. If I were to get it on my own I would be applying for citizenship and the process is difficult. You DO have to take a language test. Which is doable. But you also have to prove a connection to the Portuguese community which is vague and MUCH more difficult. The Officer explained to me that there is currently a woman in San Diego trying to get her citizenship this way. She has done everything correctly. Has letters from the curch, community groups, and friends (there is a large Portuguese community in San Diego). But this is still not enough for the people who decide this because she never lived in Portugal and doesn't have references from there. My father, BEING FIRST GENERATION IS ALREADY A CITIZEN OF PORTUGAL and simply had to register all of our family info to claim this.
NO TEST, NO PROOF OF CONNECTION TO COMMUNITY.

Fortunately for me, my father is still alive and was willing to do this. We had to register (with Portugal) my grandparents marriage and deaths. My parents marriage. And then me.
Basically, you are documenting lineage. My father IS a Portuguese citizen as the child of a national. Once he registers his identity and circumstances with Portugal. I am then the child of a national. So I am already a citizen. No Test. Nothing. Simply register Myself.

What we ended up needing ;
Grandparents birth marriage and death certificates. 
My parents birth and marriage certificates.
My birth certificate.

(The other documents help prove legitimacy to the consul and the more the better)

For me some of this was difficult to get. Especially as I am on the west coast and my Family is on the east coast of the USA. Luckily for me My father was keen to do this as well and really helped a lot. I paid for everything but he made trips to town halls and his local consulate to acquire and register all of the information. Also he has a gift for dealing with people in bureaucratic offices. He charmed the pants off of the ladies at the Rhode Island Portuguese consulate.

It took us about two months and US$1100 to accomplish this. We now have our Portuguese Birth Certificates. 

I am getting my Portuguese ID and Passport next here in LA. It will take a few more months and cost between US$200 and $400 to accomplish. The Consular Officer told me exactly what documentation to bring so this should require two visits to the Consul for me.

I do not have a Portuguese name or speak fluent Portuguese.

If I could give some advice;

1. Have your stuff together as much as possible. The Consul is not there to do the work for you. Show respect by putting the work in.

2. Be patient and polite. LISTEN. And take notes when you speak to them. No one likes to have their time wasted.

3. Don't panic if you hit an obstacle. Think, and diligently work through or around the problem. 

4. Think about what you say BEFORE you say it and speak as clearly as possible. 

5. BE POLITE. Most people in a bureaucracy are willing to help someone with a good attitude that makes doing their job as easy as possible for them. Remember, they just have forms and files to fill. It's your job to give them the stuff to put in. And they don't make the rules or have any way to bend them, so never give them any grief over an obstacle you run into. It's your problem, not theirs. 

Additionally, Anyone familiar with Portuguese culture knows that family comes first. I often used the term "My Family" instead of "ME" and "we" instead of "I". If you want a Portuguese person on your side, let them know you are trying to do something for your family. And thank them on behalf of your family. This is respected more than the idea that you just want EU citizenship. I am glad to have EU citizenship but I truly wanted to restore something I felt that we lost when we came to the US. Though I was born in the US and am thankful for that, I was raised around my Portuguese relatives and love the culture. And the food! My ancestors came here because they were poor. Not because they didn't like Portugal. Restoring our citizenship, for me, is a way of getting back something that was lost, and honoring my ancestors struggle. I think I was able to get this across to the Consular officers and they were very good to us.

I hope this helps someone and Good luck!

AC


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