# Malaga Airport Colsed due to Fog 23/01/2018



## fhanrah (Feb 16, 2017)

Hello all,
We were flying on the 23/01/2018 and Malaga Airport was closed due to sever fog and all flights that night were cancelled. We have received 2 letters from Ryanair confirming that the flight was cancelled and we have been told by AENA the airport managers that they don't correspond with customers and directed us back to the airline.

Our problem is, While we have conformation that the flight was cancelled none of the letters state why it was cancelled and our insurance won't deal with our claim without this information. 

Is the any other company I could contact to get that information why the airport was closed {In wrighting}


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Make a direct claim from Ryanair.

They are liable to pay compensation if a flight is delayed by more than a number of (three I think) hours and it's substantial amounts - hundreds of Euros per head depending on the distance of the flight.

They are NOT liable if the reason is beyond their control - like fog.

So they will either be liable OR they will tell you why they are not liable.

By the way - make the claim yourself, don't go through a legal claims company.


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## fhanrah (Feb 16, 2017)

jimenato said:


> Make a direct claim from Ryanair.
> 
> They are liable to pay compensation if a flight is delayed by more than a number of (three I think) hours and it's substantial amounts - hundreds of Euros per head depending on the distance of the flight.
> 
> ...


Correct Ryanair don't cover bad weather but our private insurance does, but they require the reason of bad weather to be put in wrighting from the airline or airport and both are refusing to do that. I may have to take this to the small claims court


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

fhanrah said:


> Correct Ryanair don't cover bad weather but our private insurance does, but they require the reason of bad weather to be put in wrighting from the airline or airport and both are refusing to do that. I may have to take this to the small claims court


So have Ryanair said in writing that the reason is bad weather but not what kind of bad weather it was? Seems a bit odd. 

Also seems odd that your insurance company needs that information if they know (and they surely must) that it's not given out. 

Smells of a stitch up to me.

Maybe the small claims court is your only recourse but remember that if you claim from Ryanair you might have difficulties as they are based in Ireland.

BTW It's not Ryanair making the rules here it's EU law.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

First of all, Ryanair should give you a reason for their denial. In looking at the weather history for 23 Jan, from after about 1600L, fog did become an issue. However, the weather was up and down and I doubt the fog would be considered "extraodinary" circumstances. 

I would contact them again and press them for a specific reason on what was extraordinary about the fog. Had they uplifted enough fuel, they could have waited for the weather to be good enough. My guess is they were worried about the specific aircraft's schedule integrity should the flight divert or be delayed. Just to let you know airlines ARE on the hook due to fog. That is not a reason to get out of paying compensation. In addition, they have an obligation to re-route you on another flight or another airline. 

This link has the weather for the entire day. https://www.ogimet.com/display_meta...18&mesf=01&dayf=23&horaf=23&minf=59&send=send


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## fhanrah (Feb 16, 2017)

Phil Squares said:


> First of all, Ryanair should give you a reason for their denial. In looking at the weather history for 23 Jan, from after about 1600L, fog did become an issue. However, the weather was up and down and I doubt the fog would be considered "extraodinary" circumstances.
> 
> I would contact them again and press them for a specific reason on what was extraordinary about the fog. Had they uplifted enough fuel, they could have waited for the weather to be good enough. My guess is they were worried about the specific aircraft's schedule integrity should the flight divert or be delayed. Just to let you know airlines ARE on the hook due to fog. That is not a reason to get out of paying compensation. In addition, they have an obligation to re-route you on another flight or another airline.
> 
> This link has the weather for the entire day. https://www.ogimet.com/display_meta...18&mesf=01&dayf=23&horaf=23&minf=59&send=send



I was at the airport, all flights from 18.30 inbound and outbound from Malaga airport were cancelled. Our inbound flight was diverted to Seville and the passengers were bused down to Malaga airport, we had a friend on that flight. We know why it was cancelled, it's our insurance company who want it in some official format to process the claim. I have complained SO MUCH to Ryanair it has now been passed onto head office, so we'll see what comes if it.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

The problem is the airport does not close no matter what the weather is. The airline makes the decision to cancel the flight not the airport. So any documentation will have to come from Ryanair not Malaga. The link I sent you does show the actual weather for the time period in question. It also shows the visibility was up and down for about 4 hours and it was above minimums for quite a large part of that time. 

Ryanair has a legal obligation to provide you with a reason. As I stated earlier, press them for it. They have to give it to you.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Phil Squares said:


> First of all, Ryanair should give you a reason for their denial. In looking at the weather history for 23 Jan, from after about 1600L, fog did become an issue. However, the weather was up and down and I doubt the fog would be considered "extraodinary" circumstances.
> 
> I would contact them again and press them for a specific reason on what was extraordinary about the fog. Had they uplifted enough fuel, they could have waited for the weather to be good enough. My guess is they were worried about the specific aircraft's schedule integrity should the flight divert or be delayed. Just to let you know airlines ARE on the hook due to fog. That is not a reason to get out of paying compensation. In addition, they have an obligation to re-route you on another flight or another airline.
> 
> This link has the weather for the entire day. https://www.ogimet.com/display_meta...18&mesf=01&dayf=23&horaf=23&minf=59&send=send


Why do you say that fog isn't a reason for an airline not to give compensation?

Citizens Advice  specifically say this...



> You won’t get compensation if it was delayed because of something like bad weather or a strike.


I'd be interested if you have something that contradicts that.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

You are mis-reading what I wrote. The airline can't use something such as fog to get out of paying you the compensation as EU 261 requires them to. Also, Ryanair has to give you a specific reason why they don't feel they have to pay you.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Phil Squares said:


> You are mis-reading what I wrote. The airline can't use something such as fog to get out of paying you the compensation as EU 261 requires them to. Also, Ryanair has to give you a specific reason why they don't feel they have to pay you.


Fog is not bad weather?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Fog is not bad weather?


To clarify...



> The airline is also required to pay cash compensation as described below, unless one of the following conditions applies:


...



> the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.


That's taken from the wiki entry for reg 261/2004 so it could be wrong.

As I understand it, bad weather is that - an "extraordinary circumstance that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure".

A suppose 'extraordinary circumstance" and "reasonable measure" are open to interpretation.

Anyway this is all rather surplus to what the OP was asking.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

Fog is bad weather, but do the airlines only fly when it's sunny and not a cloud in the sky? Having fog is not an extraordinary event. Bad weather, in the context of EU 261 is a freak or wholly exceptional. Fog certainly does not fall into that category. Even the Icelandic volcano a few years ago was not extraordinary once the courts ruled on it and Ryanair, along with a host of others were forced to pay out. 

Ryanair does not make the choice of what gets paid and what doesn't. The EU legislation and the courts do that. As I wrote previously, under law they have to tell you a specific reason. From what you have written they have not done that. Until they provide that information to you, it's nothing but guess work as to why they cancelled your flight.


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## FranE (Feb 8, 2018)

I suspect the reason for the problem is that your insurance won't pay out if someone else is liable to compensate you. Check with the ins.company, but that's often the case with any insurance.

Here's what Ryanair say on their claim form:

_Ryanair is entitled to refuse compensation when:

*we can prove* that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary
circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all
reasonable measures had been taken by Ryanair, including
not limited to political instability, safety and security reasons, weather
disruption, labour disputes or failure or delay of air traffic control
facilities._

I suspect the only way you'll get the reason from Ryanair is if you make a claim.

So your insurance co. may want you to make a claim against Ryanair, so they can see the reason for the refusal, before they accept a claim from you.

I suggest you have a word with your insurance co., find out if this is what they want, and if there is any time limit on making the claim for a cancelled flight. If so, ask them to make a note of your phone call and extend that time limit, in case the claim against Ryanair is not settled before your time runs out.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

FranE said:


> I suspect the reason for the problem is that your insurance won't pay out if someone else is liable to compensate you. Check with the ins.company, but that's often the case with any insurance.
> 
> Here's what Ryanair say on their claim form:
> 
> ...



Makes sense

Virgin lost my suitcase years ago. I went to claim on my insurance but was told I had to go through Virgin first as they were liable for the loss. Took me about six months to get the meager compensation offered


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Phil Squares said:


> Fog is bad weather, but do the airlines only fly when it's sunny and not a cloud in the sky? * Having fog is not an extraordinary event. Bad weather, in the context of EU 261 is a freak or wholly exceptional. Fog certainly does not fall into that category. Even the Icelandic volcano a few years ago was not extraordinary once the courts ruled on it and Ryanair, along with a host of others were forced to pay out.
> *
> Ryanair does not make the choice of what gets paid and what doesn't. The EU legislation and the courts do that. As I wrote previously, under law they have to tell you a specific reason. From what you have written they have not done that. Until they provide that information to you, it's nothing but guess work as to why they cancelled your flight.


Are you able to substantiate that? Only I can't find anything myself. 

You should get a refund, accommodation, food and so on whatever the reason for the delay but, as far as I am aware, NOT the mandatory _extra_ monetary compensations are talking about. This includes the Icelandic volcanic ash and things like fog. 

This is Martin Lewis' MoneySavingExpert on the subject...



> Will I get extra compensation?
> 
> You should get food if stuck at the airport for over two hours for a short-haul flight, for up to four hours on medium/long haul.
> 
> ...


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