# Spanish tourism: A victim of its own success



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Tourism provides 11% of Spain's GDP and 13% of jobs. Yet as it becomes ever more popular as a holiday destination, places like Barcelona are feeling the strain.



> The occasional outbreaks of hostility toward tourists in some locations is a symptom of ill-feeling that needs to be nipped in the bud before it is too late.
> 
> In reality, such hostility is not directed toward individual tourists, so much as a rejection of mass tourism. The problem is not the number of visitors so much as large numbers in certain locations and at certain times of the year. If we allow mass tourism to impact negatively on our beaches, towns and countryside, then not only will local people turn against tourists; the industry itself will suffer. When all is said and done, it is tourists themselves who most dislike mass tourism.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/06/inenglish/1499362846_101095.html

Just wondered if anyone here had witnessed any signs of hostility? It's quite the opposite where I live, foreign tourists are welcomed with open arms but there are probably less than 500 a year.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I've never seen any hositility towards tourists in the area I live in. The town itself doesn't get mass tourism, just visitors coming mainly for the Semana Santa processions and to see the historic buildings throughout the year. Our nearest seaside resort, Torre del Mar, is actively trying to promote more tourism (it has hitherto been a mainly Spanish tourist destination, no really large hotels but a lot of Spanish people who own apartments as holiday homes and come for July/August. 

This weekend for the third year running there is a major music festival, Weekend Beach, going on. Last year reportedly 60,000 people attended. Although naturally it attracts mainly young people, up to now at least there hasn't been any trouble associated with it. I was down there at lunchtime today and the restaurants, etc. were really busy with festival goers (identifiable by their wristbands) so the businesses in town definitely do benefit from it, not just the organisers of the event themselves. At the end of the month for the second time there's to be an International Air Show after last year's was said to be very successful.

I do think places which are the most popular with tourists get to a sort of tipping point when they are no longer pleasant to visit, though. We don't visit Nerja in July or August because the streets are just too busy for our liking and the traffic makes the journey much longer than at other times of the year. I've visited Barcelona and although I'm glad to have seen it, I wouldn't go back because it just wasn't enjoyable in some respects, having to push through crowds of people waiting to board or getting off tourist coaches, unable to take photographs because inconsiderate people are constantly wandering straight in front of you, having to be extra vigilant about risks like pickpockets who always operate in the most crowded destinations, crowded public transport, etc. I can understand local residents who have to cope with the crowds and noise, when they have to get up and go to work in the mornings, getting frustrated.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

We get masses of tourists - & with the only other real industry in the town being fishing, we understand that we need them.

It's said that you could eat in a different restaurant in Jávea every night for a year & still probably miss some..... as locals we use them pretty regularly - all year tourism is what keeps them ticking over - but the main July & August season is what enables them to stay open the rest of the year. 

I've not seen nor heard any true hostility towards tourists...except on one local FB group mainly used by English speakers  They complain about everything - the difficulty parking right next to the beach (there's always room one line back...), the queues in the supermarkets, the traffic, can't get a table in the 'favourite' restaurant that they go to once a year, the price of a glass of wine in a chringuito & so on.... all blamed on the tourists!! Hardly any of the 'expats' on the group work in any industry even vaguely linked to tourism though.

We're very lucky that 10 months of the year there's never a problem parking near any of the beaches, the supermarkets never have queues & a traffic jam consists of 4 cars....... we just have to put up with 2 months when our 30,000 population increases to soemthing like 100,000.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

I have seen far more antagonism towards tourists in Devon and Cornwall than I have ever experienced in Spain. The local West Country inhabitants appear to love nothing more than slagging off them "Emmets" and "Grockles", despite the fact that their economy would be wrecked without them.

That said, if the culture of Brits in making bogus gastroenteritis claims against Spanish hoteliers continues unabated, then Britsh tourists will be as welcome as a bacon sandwich at a Bar Mitzvah!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Never witnessed anything here, we have a very small number of Brits on holiday here but we have huge numbers of Dutch, French, Portugués Germans and Spanish 
As most of our tourists come for the world heritage sites, birdwatching, nature and in my village the famosa jamón from the ibérico pig. Equally Extremadura is huge and we don't have central tourist spots, like a beach etc.

I suspect we don't attract the " Drinking Brigade" whom I suspect, can upset and have adverse effects on the local area, in turn creating hostility


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isn't it dreadful how ordinary people can now enjoy pursuits and pastimes that once were the privilege of the wealthy....
Whenever I see the word 'mass' my hackles rise. The availability of cheap flights, package deals and the all-inclusive holiday have put a fortnight in the sun within the reach of people on comparatively low pay.
Good. My childhood holiday was a day trip to Swanage.

But I understand how people who live and work in cities, Barcelona in particular, feel about the downsides of large numbers of people taking over public spaces, forcing up rents as more and more apartments are turned into B&B accommodation and often making nuisances of themselves with their unrestrained and offensive behaviour. It's not only Barcelona - Dublin, Prague, Madrid, Krakow, Riga, Tallinn, Bratislava, all are experiencing the stag weekend culture and the locals who don't profit from it don't like it. When I left Prague in 2008 the beautiful city centre had become a virtual open air brothel and pub with pools of vomit and detritus of all kinds. It was rare indeed to see a Czech in Wenceslas Square on a Saturday night.
Estepona has seen an increase in tourism lately, mainly of Spanish and French families. It's a quiet town, no night life to speak of and rowdy behaviour is rare and frowned on. As the town lives from tourism this is on the whole beneficial. The Alcalde has done a great job of making the town live up to its name as the Garden of the Costa Del Sol. Unemployment has dropped significantly all year round, new shops and restaurants have opened catering for a slightly more up-market clientele ad the town looks good for everyone, resident and visitor alike.
But there is a downside to this too. Apartments and houses have risen steadily in price, rentals too and as the hospitality and leisure sector, the main employer, is not a high wage one, future generations of Esteponeros may find it difficult to find somewhere to live. Then whilst it's lovely to wander late at night through the quiet streets and squares of the Casco Antigua after a good dinner at one of the town's many fine restaurants, I'm not so sure that if I were a resident of one of these quiet streets I wouldn't be tempted to open the window and yell 'Piss off!' the third or fourth time I'm disturbed by loudly chattering guiris.
I'm not sure how you deal with this, apart from encouraging visitors to behave with consideration and respect. There's no way any town or city can cap numbers of visitors. But the authorities can clamp down on unauthorised B&Bs, can put strict conditions on or even ban holiday rentals in purely residential buildings and the police can deal with unruly antisocial behaviour with stiff fines and a night or two in the cells.
It's a fine balance. I'm only too pleased that ordinary working people can now enjoy foreign holidays once the preserve of the wealthy or that superior person, the 'traveller'. It can't be beyond the wit and power of the appropriate authorities to weigh up the interests of all parties and take an all-round view of this important commercial sector so nobody suffers any adverse effects from people enjoying a two week break from their perhaps boring jobs.
What surely we don't want is a 'Keep the proles from disturbing the peace of the quiet little village that locals and guiris want to keep as the mythical 'real Spain'.
And of course not everyone wants to spend their holidays on the beach like I did when I was younger. There are other kinds of holiday experiences that can and should be equally promoted.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Blanco53 said:


> I have seen far more antagonism towards tourists in Devon and Cornwall than I have ever experienced in Spain. The local West Country inhabitants appear to love nothing more than slagging off them "Emmets" and "Grockles", despite the fact that their economy would be wrecked without them.
> 
> That said, if the culture of Brits in making bogus gastroenteritis claims against Spanish hoteliers continues unabated, then Britsh tourists will be as welcome as a bacon sandwich at a Bar Mitzvah!


Well I live in the westcountry resort of Weston-super-Mare and spent my childhood holidays in various locations in Devon (no foreign travel for us) and - yes we hear the terms grockles, emmets and lemmings but it's usually pretty light-hearted. 

I think people here realise the benefits gained from tourism here visitors and mostly welcome them. Lots of events are arranged for them - the air day, concerts and exhibitions, funfair which residents also benefit from.

The thing people complain mostly about is the traffic. We don't try to drive far on Fridays and Sundays during the season - the M5 is a car park from Gloucester to Taunton.

Can't say I came across much antagonism towards tourists in Spain either TBH.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

The only problems we had was on a touring holiday after I returned from the Falklands. We were refused service in several places and had a lot of nasty looks. We left and went into France. We did not go back to Spain for a few years.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> The only problems we had was on a touring holiday after I returned from the Falklands. We were refused service in several places and had a lot of nasty looks. We left and went into France. We did not go back to Spain for a few years.


Interesting. Presumably this was in the early '80s. Where was this? Do you have any idea why you were treated that way? I mean, presumably you weren't wearing a teeshirt announcing you'd been fighting against Argentina?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> The only problems we had was on a touring holiday after I returned from the Falklands. We were refused service in several places and had a lot of nasty looks. We left and went into France. We did not go back to Spain for a few years.


Can I ask, how they knew you had returned from the Falklands to refuse you service?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I wouldn't go anywhere July and August unless unavoidable. Sightseeing isn't enjoyable when too hot. No wonder the rich like private Islands and yachts I think overtly tourist towns are tourist friendly because many earn an income from it. Suprised that some thing holidaymakers should be quiet, do they expect them to go to bed or sit watching TV at 11pm. Not come across any negativity from locals although the owner of our favourite chiringuito hates Madrilenos and shows it. He dislikes their arrogance and the way they shout to him or click their fingers

Saw a photo of German youths brawling in Magaluf last week but why live there, they have been actively encouring this type for decades. Mass tourism has spoilt all the main sites all over the world be it shuffling around the Alhambra, Tower of London or the Bastille etc. The Corniche from Nice to Monte Carlo loses it's awe when bumper to bumper. I like to pop into the National gallery and is full of disinterested school groups on their iPhone or tourists sheltering from the rain. Spoils the atmosphere. Last time I was there a group of Hungarian kids were just leaving, there was about sixty of them. Although I imagine the tombs at Luxor should be fairly quiet right now.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Isn't it dreadful how ordinary people can now enjoy pursuits and pastimes that once were the privilege of the wealthy....
> Whenever I see the word 'mass' my hackles rise. The availability of cheap flights, package deals and the all-inclusive holiday have put a fortnight in the sun within the reach of people on comparatively low pay.


"Mass" in this context refers to the quantity of tourists, not their social status. The recent big increase in Spain's visitor numbers is probably due to other areas of the world being perceived as unsafe, rather than the sudden availability of affordable package holidays, which have been around since the '60s.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We take our holidays in early-mid September (after the schools have gone back and before places close down at the end of the season) and over Christmas and New Year. For the latter, it is usually quiet until the 28th when many Spaniards turn up (they stay until Reyes by which time we have been long gone home.)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> I wouldn't go anywhere July and August unless unavoidable. Sightseeing isn't enjoyable when too hot. No wonder the rich like private Islands and yachts I think overtly tourist towns are tourist friendly because many earn an income from it. Suprised that some thing holidaymakers should be quiet, do they expect them to go to bed or sit watching TV at 11pm. Not come across any negativity from locals although the owner of our favourite chiringuito hates Madrilenos and shows it. He dislikes their arrogance and the way they shout to him or click their fingers
> 
> Saw a photo of German youths brawling in Magaluf last week but why live there, they have been actively encouring this type for decades. Mass tourism has spoilt all the main sites all over the world be it shuffling around the Alhambra, Tower of London or the Bastille etc. The Corniche from Nice to Monte Carlo loses it's awe when bumper to bumper. I like to pop into the National gallery and is full of disinterested school groups on their iPhone or tourists sheltering from the rain. Spoils the atmosphere. Last time I was there a group of Hungarian kids were just leaving, there was about sixty of them. Although I imagine the tombs at Luxor should be fairly quiet right now.



Oh yes.... and only those superior types with at least an Upper Second from a Russell Group University should be allowed to visit places of culture like the Alhambra, National Gallery., Prado etc. When they emerge they should be examined as to what they have seen. That should put a stop to disinterested people of all ages visiting temples of high culture....
Yes, I actually do think that people should be respectful of other people's desire for peace and quiet when they wander through quaint residential areas at one or two in the morning. I know that thinking of other people's well-being is becoming a quaint old-fashioned custom these days but if you're brought up like that it's a hard habit to lose. If I want to be loud and jolly when on holiday or at home, usually because I'm alcohol-fuelled, I do so in bars or other places where either I'm not disturbing anyone or everyone else is half-pissed like me. 
I think that since I've lived in Spain I'm on a permanent holiday so apart from a couple of long weekends in Portugal we haven't been away (I don't include trips to the UK which are usually taken unwillingly for business or family 'must attend' occasions). But when I was younger I used to look forward to my annual beach holiday in August in Tunisia or Spain and the presence of loads of other sun-worshippers didn't bother me. People who go to Benidorm in August don't expect to find themselves alone on the beach and I'm guessing 99% of them wouldn't want to be. Some people like being with crowds, believe it or not.
What people do and where they go on holiday depends on taste but even more on income. Benidorm and Torremolinos are cheap compared to Tuscany or the more upmarket Greek islands. Some people have no choice: if they want a holiday they go were they can afford.
But having said all that my original point stands: not all local people benefit from tourism. Some actively suffer from it. It can't be beyond the wit of the travel industry to make their product like most others these days, environmentally friendly.

You ask why people continue to live in Magaluf which indeed seems a right hell-hole of vulgar excess and depravity. Maybe the answer is that they can't afford to move? 
Or they may work in the tourist industry servicing these louts?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> "Mass" in this context refers to the quantity of tourists, not their social status. The recent big increase in Spain's visitor numbers is probably due to other areas of the world being perceived as unsafe, rather than the sudden availability of affordable package holidays, which have been around since the '60s.


Mass tourism does indeed denote quantity and that in practice refers to large numbers of less affluent people. Even before Turkey , Egypt and Tunisia have become viewed as 'unsafe' Spain was one of the most popularlow-cost holiday destinations in Europe with particular spots such as Benidorm being the favourite.
In terms of value for money, Spain actually comes out rather well. Budget airlines offer very competitive flights and tour companies offer attractive discounts.

Spain was, is and always will be a popular destination for most working people. It's got the lot, sun, sea, night life, cheap food and drink in bars and restaurants. If holidays touring Tuscan villas or French chateaux were made as cheap as chips most people would still opt for Benidorm or Aya Napia. If I'd spent fifty weeks of the year filleting fish in Grimsby I know where I'd rather spend my two weeks break.

Barcelona and Mallorca seem to attract a more rowdy hell-raising crowd than other popular Spanish holiday destinations. Maybe someone in authority should be looking into why that should be and seeking ways to minimise nuisance from people who however undesirable their behaviour do bring money into these areas.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Mass tourism does indeed denote quantity and that in practice refers to large numbers of less affluent people. Even before Turkey , Egypt and Tunisia have become viewed as 'unsafe' Spain was one of the most popularlow-cost holiday destinations in Europe with particular spots such as Benidorm being the favourite.
> In terms of value for money, Spain actually comes out rather well. Budget airlines offer very competitive flights and tour companies offer attractive discounts.
> 
> Spain was, is and always will be a popular destination for most working people. It's got the lot, sun, sea, night life, cheap food and drink in bars and restaurants. If holidays touring Tuscan villas or French chateaux were made as cheap as chips most people would still opt for Benidorm or Aya Napia. If I'd spent fifty weeks of the year filleting fish in Grimsby I know where I'd rather spend my two weeks break.
> ...


As I posted - our population increases from 30,000 to 100,00 for a couple of months every summer - that's pretty 'mass'. But to come here you need to be pretty affluent - we don't attract the budget crowd at all - & if they do find us, they don't usually stay long


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Our tourists can normally be measured in their tens and twenties but in their hundreds at cherry festival times.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting. Presumably this was in the early '80s. Where was this? Do you have any idea why you were treated that way? I mean, presumably you weren't wearing a teeshirt announcing you'd been fighting against Argentina?


No teeshirt, and the couple who came with us included a store manager for Tesco, it just seemed to be the English accent after we won the conflict.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> No teeshirt, and the couple who came with us included a store manager for Tesco, it just seemed to be the English accent after we won the conflict.



So it was actually your perception that they did not serve you due to the conflict/war.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

I lived and worked in Benidorm during the 60s (in the tourist industry for a travel agent that specialised in selling bulk contract room nights to overseas tour operators). Even then the population increased at least 10 fold in the tourist season and the worst behaved (and least spending) tourists were far and away the Brits - but that was where the biggest slice of the market was and it was part of Franco's 20 year plan to develop tourism as Spain's major industry. Brits were not particularly appreciated, but that was more in comparison to other nationalities and tourism certainly did provide work - also at the time tourism had not impacted the cost of local residential accommodation, although it had a drastic impact on water supply. Still, tourism in Benidorm is far from the same issue as tourism in Barcelona.

I lived on Queensland's Gold Coast for 20 odd years - there the bulk of tourist are currently Australian, although there have been waves of Japanese, UAE and Chinese tourists. The economy is almost entirely reliant on tourism and development and those things do tend to go hand in hand. Whilst there are issues with tourist behaviour, especially in Surfers Paradise, and city cleanliness (which has led to very high Council rates), 'party houses' (AirBnB style short term lets) and the character of many areas of the Gold Coast has changed significantly over more recent decades, the really big issue has been, and continues to be, housing prices. Tourism and development have definitely increased employment opportunities (although pay rates are comparatively very poor in the hospitality and retail sectors), residential housing costs, both to purchase and to rent, have increased disproportionately, placing significant strains on locals, especially those in the low-paid sectors, and has also resulted in long and expensive commute times.

IMHO Barcelona experiences far more pressure from tourism than Australia's Gold Coast, but from what I have read the real issue the locals have is that tourist accommodation is pushing more and more into areas of the city that were not previously considered tourist areas, with all the consequent negative impacts, especially in terms of housing costs.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

No meg, 'Malvenas' was mentioned several times.

They were just miffed at loosing.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> No meg, 'Malvenas' was mentioned several times.
> 
> They were just miffed at loosing.


Ah ok

Shame.... still silly people the world over


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Blanco53 said:


> I have seen far more antagonism towards tourists in Devon and Cornwall than I have ever experienced in Spain. The local West Country inhabitants appear to love nothing more than slagging off them "Emmets" and "Grockles", despite the fact that their economy would be wrecked without them.
> 
> *That said, if the culture of Brits in making bogus gastroenteritis claims against Spanish hoteliers continues unabated, then Britsh tourists will be as welcome as a bacon sandwich at a Bar Mitzvah!*


*Crackdown on false holiday sickness claims*

I see there's been an announcement in the UK today, that the Government together with several Travel industry
bosses, are going to get together to 'crack down' on bogus holiday sickness claims by Brits on holiday abroad.


BBC News - British holiday sickness fakers face British government crackdown


BBC News - UK holiday fraudsters could face jail


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

The problem, as I understand it, is sites like Airbnb offering accommodation for rent cheaply, and in residential areas....of course this courses some hostility, as locals don´t receive much benefit economically, and nobody likes huge numbers of people all year round.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

danboy20 said:


> The problem, as I understand it, is sites like Airbnb offering accommodation for rent cheaply, and in residential areas....of course this courses some hostility, as locals don´t receive much benefit economically, and *nobody likes huge numbers of people all year round*.


especially when they might well be drunk, returning late at night making all the noise that such people make...


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## Michael Kelly (May 30, 2017)

I would like to see all tourist apartments in urban areas closed and all hotels forced to pay the minimum wage to their staff.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

danboy20 said:


> The problem, as I understand it, is sites like Airbnb offering accommodation for rent cheaply, and in residential areas....of course this courses some hostility, as locals don´t receive much benefit economically, and nobody likes huge numbers of people all year round.


Yes, that's exactly the problem in Barcelona as it is being reported on Spanish TV


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Michael Kelly said:


> I would like to see all tourist apartments in urban areas closed and all hotels forced to pay the minimum wage to their staff.


Or even better a decent living wage.

Not sure if it's still the case but time was when people in some occupations couldn't choose when to take their holidays. That's obviously the case for people employed in education but there used to be factory shutdowns. 
Hence presumably the August crowds.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Michael Kelly said:


> I would like to see all tourist apartments in urban areas closed and all hotels forced to pay the minimum wage to their staff.


My OH and I almost always rent an apartment when we go on city breaks because we much prefer the additional space and flexibility to make a cup of coffee, for example, when we want one rather than being cooped up in one room and having to go down to a bar for a drink if staying in a hotel - or pay a premium for room service.

I'm sure we don't cause problems for our temporary neighbours when we stay in apartments in residential buildings rather than purpose built tourist apartment blocks, we don't keep late hours and nor do we get drunk. So it would seem very harsh if we were to be denied our preferred type of accommodation because of the bad behaviour of other people.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> My OH and I almost always rent an apartment when we go on city breaks because we much prefer the additional space and flexibility to make a cup of coffee, for example, when we want one rather than being cooped up in one room and having to go down to a bar for a drink if staying in a hotel - or pay a premium for room service.
> 
> I'm sure we don't cause problems for our temporary neighbours when we stay in apartments in residential buildings rather than purpose built tourist apartment blocks, we don't keep late hours and nor do we get drunk. *So it would seem very harsh if we were to be denied our preferred type of accommodation because of the bad behaviour of other people.*


Sorry Lynn, but that's the way it has always been - the few spoil it for the rest who suffer, but aren't to blame. - That is the basic rule of injustice.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry Lynn, but that's the way it has always been - the few spoil it for the rest who suffer, but aren't to blame. - That is the basic rule of injustice.


That always seems the lazy way to deal with a problem to me - the authorities/rental companies/landlords can't be bothered or are too timid to deal with the troublemakers so it's the easy way out just to ban people (all people, not just the troublemakers) from doing something.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> That always seems the lazy way to deal with a problem to me - the authorities/rental companies/landlords can't be bothered or are too timid to deal with the troublemakers so it's the easy way out just to ban people (all people, not just the troublemakers) from doing something.


It's also the least expensive way....
But I get your point.
I think the problem in Barcelona is that the holiday rents in question are in blocks in purely residential areas.

But that kind of thing happens all over. Our next door neighbour, an extremely avaricious Spaniard, spends most of the year in an apartment he owns in Marbella and (probably illegally) rents his house with pool to mainly Brits from April to October. In April he was charging £3000 a week, Lord knows what high season charges are.
Most of his clients are OK, recognise this is a 100% residential area and apart from shrieking kids having fun in the pool we hardly hear them. We're used to that as our neighbours on the other side often have grandchildren to stay. But one or two families have been a royal pain in the arse, loudly talking, shouting and playing music until the late early hours and totally ignoring the siesta which is very much observed round here. OK so they're on holiday but nearly all our neighbours work and we do now, albeit voluntary work so a good night's rest is a must.

A couple of years ago a large house three properties away was rented out to some Brits who held a party with very loud live music. Several neighbours complained to the police who came, stopped the music and ordered the tenants and all the guests out in the street and demanded to see ID and a rental contract. I suppose if we all felt annoyed enough we could do the same when our neighbour's guests get rowdy but it seems a bit OTT to me.
Some local authorities are getting very strict in enforcing the noise contamination laws, it seems. Estepona had to pay a large sum recently to residents in the Port area for not clamping down quickly enough on noisy bars so I guess they are keen to avoid a repetition.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> A couple of years ago a large house three properties away was rented out to some Brits who held a party with very loud live music. Several neighbours complained to the police who came, stopped the music and ordered the tenants and all the guests out in the street and demanded to see ID and a rental contract. I suppose if we all felt annoyed enough we could do the same when our neighbour's guests get rowdy but it seems a bit OTT to me.
> .


If people suffer nuisance from holidaymakers staying near to them, then they have 3 choices. They can either
a) put up with it
b) confront the people causing the nuisance themselves or
c) call the police or, if they exist, other local entities who have responsibility for these issues.

Doing nothing except complaining to each other or others afterwards achieves nothing at all.

Many years ago my OH and I were staying in an apartment in a very small, quiet resort on a Greek island. All was fine for the first few nights, then two young Glaswegian men arrived to stay in the apartment immediately above ours. Not only did they get steaming drunk day and night, partied loudly either on their balcony or inside the apartment until 6am, but they also stood naked on the balcony in the mornings in full view of children going to school. Having put up with this behaviour for two nights my OH snapped and charged up the stairs at about 4am, banged loudly on their door and told them to shut the f··· up. I was a bit nervous about him doing it as although he's a big bloke and can appear fearsome when he wants to, there were two of them and only one of him, but it did work. The next morning they were evicted from the apartment by the holiday company.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Perhaps Barcelona could do what some parts of Florida does. In residential areas they prohibit rentals under 6 months. (Although long term renters can sometimes be a pain). We rented our house out a few times, through an Agent and had complaints from neighbours, most justified. So we stopped letting, wasn't worth the hassle. We did spend one August there and it was impossible to sleep with neighbours and their guests. One Spanish family who were normally quiet had about 12 people in their house and would sit around until at least 2am. With holiday letting there is no control who you get. On the other side of the coin I met two old dears who rented an apartment in Calahonda where you couldn't get more touristy. They would sit out on the balcony chewing over the day. The German president came over and was very nasty and said community rules said no noise after 11pm. They were scared of him. I am sure neighbours would hear them but that is why I would never buy an apartment in a tourist area.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Isobella said:


> Perhaps Barcelona could do what some parts of Florida does. In residential areas they prohibit rentals under 6 months. (Although long term renters can sometimes be a pain). We rented our house out a few times, through an Agent and had complaints from neighbours, most justified. So we stopped letting, wasn't worth the hassle. We did spend one August there and it was impossible to sleep with neighbours and their guests. One Spanish family who were normally quiet had about 12 people in their house and would sit around until at least 2am. With holiday letting there is no control who you get. On the other side of the coin I met two old dears who rented an apartment in Calahonda where you couldn't get more touristy. They would sit out on the balcony chewing over the day. The German president came over and was very nasty and said community rules said no noise after 11pm. They were scared of him. I am sure neighbours would hear them but that is why I would never buy an apartment in a tourist area.


On the community we lived in Florida, you weren't allowed to make a noise outdoors after 8pm! Sunset swims & evening BBQs were out unless you were seriously quiet  

A house two doors up from us was used as a holiday home & another neighbour called the police when they were jumping in the pool at 9pm. The police turned up & gave them some kind of fine!

We weren't allowed to dry washing in sight of neighbours either - not even swimsuits over the back of a lounger.


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## Michael Kelly (May 30, 2017)

Lynn R said:


> My OH and I almost always rent an apartment when we go on city breaks because we much prefer the additional space and flexibility to make a cup of coffee, for example, when we want one rather than being cooped up in one room and having to go down to a bar for a drink if staying in a hotel - or pay a premium for room service.
> 
> I'm sure we don't cause problems for our temporary neighbours when we stay in apartments in residential buildings rather than purpose built tourist apartment blocks, we don't keep late hours and nor do we get drunk. So it would seem very harsh if we were to be denied our preferred type of accommodation because of the bad behaviour of other people.


Hotels do offer larger rooms such as suites. Room service creates employment for low skilled workers, something that is badly needed in Spain. The cost of holidaying in urban areas should be high enough to reduce tourist numbers while maximizing revenues.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> We take our holidays in early-mid September (after the schools have gone back and before places close down at the end of the season) and over Christmas and New Year. For the latter, it is usually quiet until the 28th when many Spaniards turn up (they stay until Reyes by which time we have been long gone home.)


June and September are my favourite months.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> On the community we lived in Florida, you weren't allowed to make a noise outdoors after 8pm! Sunset swims & evening BBQs were out unless you were seriously quiet
> 
> A house two doors up from us was used as a holiday home & another neighbour called the police when they were jumping in the pool at 9pm. The police turned up & gave them some kind of fine!
> 
> We weren't allowed to dry washing in sight of neighbours either - not even swimsuits over the back of a lounger.


Was similar when we lived in Geneva, everyone seemed to be tucked up in bed by 10pm.  unfortunately we had a pianist below who like to practice at 7am.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh yes.... and only those superior types with at least an Upper Second from a Russell Group University should be allowed to visit places of culture like the Alhambra, National Gallery., Prado etc. When they emerge they should be examined as to what they have seen. That should put a stop to disinterested people of all ages visiting temples of high culture....
> Yes, I actually do think that people should be respectful of other people's desire for peace and quiet when they wander through quaint residential areas at one or two in the morning. I know that thinking of other people's well-being is becoming a quaint old-fashioned custom these days but if you're brought up like that it's a hard habit to lose. If I want to be loud and jolly when on holiday or at home, usually because I'm alcohol-fuelled, I do so in bars or other places where either I'm not disturbing anyone or everyone else is half-pissed like me.
> I think that since I've lived in Spain I'm on a permanent holiday so apart from a couple of long weekends in Portugal we haven't been away (I don't include trips to the UK which are usually taken unwillingly for business or family 'must attend' occasions). But when I was younger I used to look forward to my annual beach holiday in August in Tunisia or Spain and the presence of loads of other sun-worshippers didn't bother me. People who go to Benidorm in August don't expect to find themselves alone on the beach and I'm guessing 99% of them wouldn't want to be. Some people like being with crowds, believe it or not.
> What people do and where they go on holiday depends on taste but even more on income. Benidorm and Torremolinos are cheap compared to Tuscany or the more upmarket Greek islands. Some people have no choice: if they want a holiday they go were they can afford.
> ...


You are too prickly, merely reminiscing of how it was. There are art lovers who come down from upt'north on their first to London. They are disappointed too. Or have a couple of days in Paris, spend two hours queuing to get into the Louvre only to find it us a scrum to get near works they want to see. I was thinking of masses at popular sites as large tour groups, eg 50 passengers off a cruise ship/schoolchildren. I think our age group had the best of times re. Travelling. 

Another thing I find depressing is that many tourists only see these sights glued to their iPhone. Why not buy a few postcards and just look with your eyes.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Isobella said:


> You are too prickly, merely reminiscing of how it was. There are art lovers who come down from upt'north on their first to London. They are disappointed too. Or have a couple of days in Paris, spend two hours queuing to get into the Louvre only to find it us a scrum to get near works they want to see. I was thinking of masses at popular sites as large tour groups, eg 50 passengers off a cruise ship/schoolchildren. I think our age group had the best of times re. Travelling.
> 
> Another thing I find depressing is that many tourists only see these sights glued to their iPhone. *Why not buy a few postcards and just look with your eyes*.


I agree. Many a time I have bought postcards of a place rather than take photos simply because I couldn't get a decent picture because of all the people in the way or nudging up against me.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> You are too prickly, merely reminiscing of how it was. There are art lovers who come down from upt'north on their first to London. They are disappointed too. Or have a couple of days in Paris, spend two hours queuing to get into the Louvre only to find it us a scrum to get near works they want to see. I was thinking of masses at popular sites as large tour groups, eg 50 passengers off a cruise ship/schoolchildren. I think our age group had the best of times re. Travelling.
> 
> Another thing I find depressing is that many tourists only see these sights glued to their iPhone. Why not buy a few postcards and just look with your eyes.



'Mass' tourism, i.e. lots of people descending on the same place at the same time is an aspect of the phenomenum of 'mass' consumerism. Whichever way you look at it, it's about people who previously couldn't afford foreign holidays or any holiday at all converging on popular or 'must see' places. Like all other objects and activities once the prerogative of the wealthy, whether going to university, driving an expensive car, having designer gear and so on, mass availability changes the nature of the experience. When half the population goes to university, some degrees are less valued. Luxury items lose their cachet. Anyone with the money can buy them, exclusivity evaporates.
I remember driving past a five star hotel in Bournemouth once, the Royal Bath, and remarking on how posh and exclusive it was. My mother replied 'Anyone can go there nowadays if they've got the money'.
Consumerism isn't solely a product of capitalist pressure. It's also the result of social and political gains that have put more money and leisure time in the hands of working people. I don't like criticising anything that enables the less well-off to be able to enjoy and acquire things and experiences that were once beyond their reach.

But....yes, it is annoying to visit a museum or art gallery and find your view obscured by people whose sole aim seems to be to take photos or even worse selfies on their wretched IPhones. Whenever I see someone with one of those repulsive 'selfie sticks', surely the most egotistic device ever invented, I have the urge to grab it and stick it somewhere where it might produce a photo of interest only to medical students.
But...that's democracy. Equality of access if not equality of appreciation.

The only thing that can be done to lessen the admittedly adverse effects of large numbers of people descending on the same place at the same time is for the local authorities to get a grip and clamp down on behaviour that impinges on the quality of life of residents and other visitors. Some are doing that with rules on street dress and behaviour. Now I'm older I don't like places with loads of people so I avoid them.

But no way can I bemoan the fact that large numbers of working people are able to enjoy holidays in the sun if that's what floats their boat or can visit sites that once only academics and doughty Victorian travellers accessed. 
If I were ever a socialist I'd be happy to be called 'champagne socialist' as I believe champagne should be for the many not restricted to the few.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> 'Mass' tourism, i.e. lots of people descending on the same place at the same time is an aspect of the phenomenum of 'mass' consumerism. Whichever way you look at it, it's about people who previously couldn't afford foreign holidays or any holiday at all converging on popular or 'must see' places. Like all other objects and activities once the prerogative of the wealthy, whether going to university, driving an expensive car, having designer gear and so on, mass availability changes the nature of the experience. When half the population goes to university, some degrees are less valued. Luxury items lose their cachet. Anyone with the money can buy them, exclusivity evaporates.
> I remember driving past a five star hotel in Bournemouth once, the Royal Bath, and remarking on how posh and exclusive it was. My mother replied 'Anyone can go there nowadays if they've got the money'.
> Consumerism isn't solely a product of capitalist pressure. It's also the result of social and political gains that have put more money and leisure time in the hands of working people. I don't like criticising anything that enables the less well-off to be able to enjoy and acquire things and experiences that were once beyond their reach.
> 
> ...


*What used to happen in Southend was the police lined up all the yobboes as they got off the train, confiscate all belts and boot laces then say "off you go lads. enjoy yourselves, you can collect these on your way home. They didn't cause much trouble holding their trousers up and trying to keep their "bovver boots" on their feet.

Champagne should be banned as a con-trick - it is just cheap fizzy French white wine talked up to make it expensive - Babycham was just as good, if not better.*


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> 'Mass' tourism, i.e. lots of people descending on the same place at the same time is an aspect of the phenomenum of 'mass' consumerism. Whichever way you look at it, it's about people who previously couldn't afford foreign holidays or any holiday at all converging on popular or 'must see' places. Like all other objects and activities once the prerogative of the wealthy, whether going to university, driving an expensive car, having designer gear and so on, mass availability changes the nature of the experience. When half the population goes to university, some degrees are less valued. Luxury items lose their cachet. Anyone with the money can buy them, exclusivity evaporates.
> I remember driving past a five star hotel in Bournemouth once, the Royal Bath, and remarking on how posh and exclusive it was. My mother replied 'Anyone can go there nowadays if they've got the money'.
> Consumerism isn't solely a product of capitalist pressure. It's also the result of social and political gains that have put more money and leisure time in the hands of working people. I don't like criticising anything that enables the less well-off to be able to enjoy and acquire things and experiences that were once beyond their reach.
> 
> ...


I suppose you do realise that when working people started holidaying in Spain in the 60s, it was both the climate and, more importantly, the fact that it was cheaper than taking a holiday in the UK? Of course, that caused problems for many British holiday destinations and for holiday camps such as Butlins.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EverHopeful said:


> I suppose you do realise that when working people started holidaying in Spain in the 60s, it was both the climate and, more importantly, the fact that it was cheaper than taking a holiday in the UK? Of course, that caused problems for many British holiday destinations and for holiday camps such as Butlins.


Of course I do At last ordinary people were able to enjoy a fortnight in the sun previously the preserve of the better-off rather than two weeks in Skegness in the military barracks disguised as 'holiday camps' = reveille at 8.00 and all that, knobbly knees and glamorous grannies contests..
Members of my family were able to go abroad for pleasure - previously their experiences of abroad had been in uniform, at least for the males.

Wasn't it a good thing that the grim Blackpool B&B with the dragon-like landlady and the dreary holiday camps lost their captive clientele?

My first ever trip abroad was to stay with a German pen pal in Stuttgart when I was seventeen. I worked on Saturdays and school holidays to pay the train fare and booked the longest possible route to get there, going via Paris, where I had a ten hour break between trains and set off sightseeing and then via Strasburg. I can still remember how excited I was.. The way my Mum and Gran acted you'd have thought I was off to outer space.
Now, like many other people, I take the shortest route wherever....


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