# Racism in Australia



## rouzbeh (Apr 30, 2011)

Hi everybody,

I am thinking about moving to Australia and I am currently living in Netherlands. I am originally from middle-east.

I am hearing that racism against middle-eastern is at a very high level in Australia and it's very difficult to integrate in the society. Is this true ?


Thanks,

Rouzbeh


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

hi rouzbeh

welcome to the forum.. and no racism thread again please.. it is as simple, if one feels there is racism, why isnt he going back to their home country? those who are not in AU cant figure if it is racism or not.. relax and make a move, if you feel it is there come back. dont believe words coming from those who think they know things but have not seen it from their eyes.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2011)

:frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

Unfortunately it won't let me include any more pictures...


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## sabfrance (Sep 9, 2010)

Rouzbeh,

People in Australia are sensible and friendly. Don't hesitate coming here for that reason.

There are always some idiots, but this is the same the world over.

If you bring a friendly spirit with you, Australia will make a good home and you will have a good time with all of your new friends.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2011)

The thing is, I don't see an end to these type of threads. Every cluebie is going to start one. Rather than keeping answering/deleting them, why not make a sticky explaining everything????


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

That would take moderating to a subject role, and mainly the role of the forum mods is to make sure forum rules are followed. Racism threads by their nature are sensitive and almost always degenerate into some name calling (usually around day 2-3). But it's also a very subjective view and perception as well.

While I can see a 'no racism threads' rule, that starts the whole slippery slope of 'allowed subjects' and I think it really brings in the bias of the mod into the equation on what is allowed and not allowed. I'd rather avoid choosing subjects and make sure the name calling and such is minimised as aired views can be challenged and refuted while those that stay in the mind fester into usually negative things.

Also let's say it's a sticky who is expert enough to cover racism fairly that it really answers most questions. I think it's impossible to do. Too subjective. 

The threads come up as some media or other reports it as happening. They'll continue to happen occaisonally. Usually in bunches here and there (last year was a banner year for them). 



ausimmi said:


> The thing is, I don't see an end to these type of threads. Every cluebie is going to start one. Rather than keeping answering/deleting them, why not make a sticky explaining everything????


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2011)

Ahem ahem. Amaslam has just given certain chaos loving elements a thump on the back  Said elements currently have empty minds, and since empty minds are the workshop of the devil, this particular 'element' shall try to douse the fire using petrol :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 

So, talking about racism etc., I once asked an authentic, white, golden haired, aussie person their view on the subject of a sub-continental delicacy called 'Gulab Jamun'. After tasting it, the person says to the effect: "I can see where it is trying to go, but to me it tastes like a soggy doughnut. Now, I just simply LOVE Pavlovas. Have you ever tried a Pavlova?"

SO. What I want to know is, why does 'racism' skew the perceptions of Australians to such an extent that they can't even appreciate the finer things in life, if such fine things are from the sub-continent????

Let the WAR begin...

Now just let me find a nice, safe spot where I can watch all the fun happening without getting hurt myself...


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

lets leave it at that ausimmi else i see this thread closing too .


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2011)

anj1976 said:


> lets leave it at that ausimmi else i see this thread closing too .


Awwww anj!!!! How COULD YOU!!!!! This is about Gulab Jamuns after all!!!!


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

i understand that, there are a lot of elements that we can fight for like jalebies, gulab jamuns, halwas etc etc but is it worth it?  (i know it is worth it, it is worth a million fights but who else understands the culinary delight of Indians ).. as i said, lets leave it at that


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2011)

anj1976 said:


> i understand that, there are a lot of elements that we can fight for like jalebies, gulab jamuns, halwas etc etc but is it worth it?  (i know it is worth it, it is worth a million fights but who else understands the culinary delight of Indians ).. as i said, lets leave it at that


   :sad: :sad: :sad: :hurt: :hurt: :hurt: :Cry: :Cry: :Cry: out: out: out:

*SNIFF* *SNIFF* And it was gong to be such an interesting discussion too out: out: out: out:


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## cross (May 29, 2010)

There is a lot of RACE'ism here in australia.
There are some idiots who race and don't follow speed limits.


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## cross (May 29, 2010)

cross said:


> There is a lot of RACE'ism here in australia.
> There are some idiots who race and don't follow speed limits.


:clap2:


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## Zenji (May 24, 2009)

I dont like this topic but have to contribute. I'm from Africa and can tell you that so called "racism" is everywhere.
Over the last 7 years I have lived and worked in four countries and learned that racism is not worth thinking about if you want to prosper in any given country. Like most people say, move into a country - Fit In Or F*** Off. I have found this to be very true and honestly Australia is great if you just allow to "fit in". 
Most migrants get trapped in trying to keep together with people from their own countries, my thoughts - BAD move! You will never "fit in" and will always complain about "racism" even when someone jokes about something small.

I know many will disagree but am entitled to my opinion. And yes, I lived in New Zealand before moving to Australia - both countries are the same. My skin colour didn't stop me from achieving success.
If there is "racism" in Australia I wouldn't be earning $164k!


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

Zenji said:


> I dont like this topic but have to contribute. I'm from Africa and can tell you that so called "racism" is everywhere.
> Over the last 7 years I have lived and worked in four countries and learned that racism is not worth thinking about if you want to prosper in any given country. Like most people say, move into a country - Fit In Or F*** Off. I have found this to be very true and honestly Australia is great if you just allow to "fit in".
> Most migrants get trapped in trying to keep together with people from their own countries, my thoughts - BAD move! You will never "fit in" and will always complain about "racism" even when someone jokes about something small.
> 
> ...


earning 164k in Perth is like earning 80k in Sydney. Also how are immigrants susposed to branch out of these areas when property in Australia is expensive and maybe that's the only area they can afford. Migrants aren't restricted by racism they are restrict by cost.

Anyone with an Engineering degree could get that kind of money in Perth **** even people in non sectors such as safety etc earn salaries near that. Your not a shinning example you've just come to a city which has a huge shortage of Oil and Gas engineers. I assume u are working on gorgon right?


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## yks (Jan 24, 2011)

Weebie said:


> earning 164k in Perth is like earning 80k in Sydney. Also how are immigrants susposed to branch out of these areas when property in Australia is expensive and maybe that's the only area they can afford. Migrants aren't restricted by racism they are restrict by cost.
> 
> Anyone with an Engineering degree could get that kind of money in Perth **** even people in non sectors such as safety etc earn salaries near that. Your not a shinning example you've just come to a city which has a huge shortage of Oil and Gas engineers. I assume u are working on gorgon right?


if i am not wrong ...are you guys really serious ?
is 164 K, really a very normal salary in Perth ?


YKS
:ranger:


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## Dhawal (Oct 29, 2010)

WOW 165k salary is awesome.....


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## kingrulzuk (Jan 19, 2010)

ASLAM u put the words in a nice way

man i like u


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## kaz101 (Nov 29, 2007)

My Dad is a black Jamaican and he moved over from Jamaica to the UK in the 50's and there were very few black people in the UK then. 

One night in a bar a white guy goes up to him and my Dad suspects that there could be trouble from the guys attitude. 
The guy asks him "Do you get any trouble from racism?" 
My Dad replies "Not from intelligent people".
The guy wandered off. 

There are idiots in every country - don't let that stop you from living the life that you want. 

Cheers,
Karen


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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

Here Here! 

BTW I know engineers in Brisbane that earn more than 164k and some that are coming over for between 150 - 160 and _none_ of them work in mining.

That sort of salary seems to be the market rate for the more experienced people. Depends on the company one works for, obviously.


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

164k is a good wage but it won't get you anything extravagent. Infact if 164k is the income for an entire family so to say your lifestyle in Australia would be good but nothing great.

Australia has a shortage of engineers but the shortage only exists at first world enigneering experience hence why many Indian engineers struggle to find work in Australia. That's another issue towards to the racist issue and I'm not harping on Indians but I'm using this is an example. Many indians struggle to get the same job as they are trained for back home and when they dont get that job they are quick to label Austalia racist.

In reality though Indian qualifications aren't widely recgonised in Australia and hence many must complete an Australian qualification to get their foot in the door. With the current state of the economy many are struggling.

Australia's economy is very two tiered. Soem sectors like Engineering, Accountants, IT and some trades are needed. Many other professions though such as services the job market is no better than the US or UK.


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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

Weebie, how much of this is because India isn't a signatory to the Washington Accord? or does that not come into it?


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

India has been on the list of provisional members, but that really has more to do with normalising the standards between countries. There is also the Sydney Accord and Dublin Accord (Sydney Accord is also recognised in AU). 

The following countries (territories) in Asia are full signatories of the Washington Accord: Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong SAR, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, and Singapore.

Now looking at the list of provisional members I am finding it interesting that Germany is on the list of provisional members. Now I know by reputation German Engineering to be of a very high standard. But I bet reconciling the German standard with the Anglo standard (likely based on USA standards) is not simple. 

As for India I am of the view that the IIT level graduates should become signatory, but there can also be many non-IIT engineering programs with varying standards and this is the main reason that I think India has remained at the provisional level as it hasn't been easy to reconcile their programs to the USA engineering programs.

And it can't be an anti-Asia bias as you have the HK, Singapore, Korea, Malaysia programs already full signatory. 

I am not an Engineer (although I did go to an Engineering school) but I do find this topic fascinating. 

However I also think this thread is going off-topic. Perhaps a new thread to discuss the Accords is needed. 



Darla.R said:


> Weebie, how much of this is because India isn't a signatory to the Washington Accord? or does that not come into it?


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

I decided to test out waters with the Australian job market by applying at a major organization. My application was rejected but I requested further insight from the hiring person. This is what she says:



> You perhaps should just work closely with your agent – not only to assist you with more formal documents to enable you to work and then to focus on roles that a closer aligned to your experience and direction until such time as you build some local work experience. Your agent should be able to assist you with contractual or permanent work. From those initiatives and hopefully placement, other work may come.


Now, I am NOT accusing that person of being biased, because she just explained the general attitude to my case in Australia. I am extremely thankful to her for going out of her way to provide this insight.

So, in general, my 10 years experience stands for naught, and I must gather local Aussie work experience, and must start from the bottom of the ladder....


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

you have to start form the bottom but climbing up the ladder is fairly easy and fast. the 10 years that you have worked wont go wasted. i have friends who started form the bottom and within 6 months there were where they deserved to be. a friend, now works for Oracle, was a project manager here in India, left for Australia 5 years back, he had to start afresh but in 5 months he was promoted to a project manager. when they say Au experience, they simply want to see where you stand and how much you know, once they are happy with what you give to the company they do promote you.

another friend who was a BD Manager at Intel worked at a much lower level for first 3 months, her next job was at the university doing what she was doing at Intel. 

these are not stories that i have heard but experiences shared by some very close friends.

i think they want to make sure you understand the Australian work culture before they give you a position at par with what you were doing in your home country.


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## Dhawal (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi Darla.r,
How would the washingtonaccord affect the job prospects in Australia?


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## twister292 (Mar 25, 2011)

The washington accord is a reciprocity agreement of sorts...full signatories to the accord accept each others' engineering qualifications without hindrance. it's not a huge thing for employers if ur experience etc make up for it.


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## amer (Apr 30, 2011)

My take of rasicm is simple, i'd better to be in a country where i encounter occasional racism than being in a country which bases race as its national policy...enuf said...


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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

Dhawal said:


> Hi Darla.r,
> How would the washingtonaccord affect the job prospects in Australia?


Well I'm not sure exactly, I had some vague idea that you needed to have a WA qualification to get accepted into Engineers Australia, but I wasn't sure if that was correct or not.


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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

amer said:


> My take of rasicm is simple, i'd better to be in a country where i encounter occasional racism than being in a country which bases race as its national policy...enuf said...


Absolutely right. And I'd rather live in country where not only is discrimination legislated against but the laws are also upheld and properly enforced.


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## twister292 (Mar 25, 2011)

Darla.R said:


> Well I'm not sure exactly, I had some vague idea that you needed to have a WA qualification to get accepted into Engineers Australia, but I wasn't sure if that was correct or not.


It's not a requirement. the washington accord in principle from an australian perspective means that qualifications under the accord will be accepted without the need for any extra experience on top (i.e. a CDR) by EngAus. This does not exempt the applicant from needing to show recent work experience in the nominated occupation for the GSM visa.


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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

Thank you for clarifying this for me.


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## foha2012 (Sep 19, 2009)

anj1976 said:


> hi rouzbeh
> 
> welcome to the forum.. and no racism thread again please.. it is as simple, if one feels there is racism, why isnt he going back to their home country? those who are not in AU cant figure if it is racism or not.. relax and make a move, if you feel it is there come back. dont believe words coming from those who think they know things but have not seen it from their eyes.


Dear Rouzbeh,

If you consider a couple of isolated incidents of beatings of Asians as racism, you are severely mistaken. I live in a country where people from same nationality and religion, kill each other only because they were from a different sect !.

Make your move and go there. Australia is not the worst place on earth as far as hate crimes are concerned.

Cheers,

TAA


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## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

I have posted my opinions on this subject a number of times
Yes, there is racism in Australia, it is endemic, covert and very surreptitious, it may destroy your career, you will find-it in employment, in the neighbourhood and in some Government Departments. There is also "Political Correctness" and if you are a male working with a large number of women and are better qualified than any of them, you will be regarded as "Politically Incorrect". I have on more than one occasion found myself on the street after loosing my job, asking myself "where did I go wrong this time?" E-mail me for more info [email protected]


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## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

My advice: don't go and live in country towns in Australia, I am building a house in Avondale near Bundaberg, have been in Australia since 1975, the neighbours are mostly ok but some ******** have lodged a complaint with the local council, as a result I am told "I am upsetting the amenities of other land owners" have been told to vacate my own land after completing 2/3 of my house, don't underestimate the situation, go to Sydney / Melbourne and live in your own communities, forget Perth, I spent 1 day there some years ago and people were passing comments as i walked passed them in the street and they were not joking either, more info [email protected], a French friend of mine had similar experience and left the country immediatly.


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## rackspace (Dec 13, 2009)

pr2jd2b said:


> My advice: don't go and live in country towns in Australia, I am building a house in Avondale near Bundaberg, have been in Australia since 1975, the neighbours are mostly ok but some ******** have lodged a complaint with the local council, as a result I am told "I am upsetting the amenities of other land owners" have been told to vacate my own land after completing 2/3 of my house


wow.. that ultra rude ..


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## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

rackspace said:


> wow.. that ultra rude ..


I wouldn't make a joke of it either, recently, a parliamentarian said: Australians should stop denegrating migrants, racism in Australia is on the increase.

more info email me : [email protected]


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## sollie (Jan 4, 2011)

pr2jd2b said:


> I wouldn't make a joke of it either, recently, a parliamentarian said: Australians should stop denegrating migrants, racism in Australia is on the increase.
> 
> more info email me : [email protected]


What kind of racism and against who or what countries in specific? Not that it matters - prejudice is prejudice...


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## Guest (May 4, 2011)

Just to balance out pr2jd2b's views, please take a look here:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...what-i-love-about-australia-2.html#post513416

I completely understand pr2jd2b's views and am actually NOT denying that there is some truth in what he is saying. But the important thing is, it is YOU YOURSELF who defines how people behave with you. A smile, good English, nice, encouraging words, and a well attired personality will work wonders in making people enthusiastic about you. If you find yourself surrounded by a bunch of women at the workplace, don't emphasize the 'man' 'woman' divide. Talk politely, in a gender neutral way, don't insert innuendos into the conversation and in general don't make them feel harrassed. Be helpful - as a matter of fact, go out of your way to be helpful - and you will find you have made extremely staunch friends!!!! Similarly, take pains to introduce yourself to your neighbours, go to community gatherings, and don't make yourself stand out as an outsider. Follow these rules, then come back and complain about racism if you encounter it. And oh, diid I miss the golden rule?? Don't go about introducing yourself to women. If they initiate communication, reply with a decent mind and gentlemanly attitude. AND - in general, with everyone, try to hold doors and go out of your way to help.


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## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

ausimmi said:


> Just to balance out pr2jd2b's views, please take a look here:
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...what-i-love-about-australia-2.html#post513416
> 
> I completely understand pr2jd2b's views and am actually NOT denying that there is some truth in what he is saying. But the important thing is, it is YOU YOURSELF who defines how people behave with you. A smile, good English, nice, encouraging words, and a well attired personality will work wonders in making people enthusiastic about you. If you find yourself surrounded by a bunch of women at the workplace, don't emphasize the 'man' 'woman' divide. Talk politely, in a gender neutral way, don't insert innuendos into the conversation and in general don't make them feel harrassed. Be helpful - as a matter of fact, go out of your way to be helpful - and you will find you have made extremely staunch friends!!!! Similarly, take pains to introduce yourself to your neighbours, go to community gatherings, and don't make yourself stand out as an outsider. Follow these rules, then come back and complain about racism if you encounter it. And oh, diid I miss the golden rule?? Don't go about introducing yourself to women. If they initiate communication, reply with a decent mind and gentlemanly attitude. AND - in general, with everyone, try to hold doors and go out of your way to help.


Very nice indeed! I married my wife because she's a "real" lady and she says she married me because I am couth, dont have "ockeristic" mannerism or culture. Pamela is a White New Zealander and our backgrounds differ dramatically, yet, we get on very well with each other and I have no problems with the rest of her family (except her son who's a bit of a psycho). She regards me as being polite, well mannered, courteous, educated and considerate. At the rate things are going in Australia we may migrate to New Zealand. By the way, do employers in your country expect you to have "Interpersonal Skills" and understand "Business Ethics"? To my mind, this is just another way of saying "Your Upbringing and sense of values are all wrong and if you want a job you must change all that !"
Do employers in your country expect you to do an Anger Management course just because your opinion differs from that of others at work?


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## Darla.R (Mar 27, 2011)

pr2jd2b Oh my word! if you're worried about racism in Australia please, _please _don't go and live in New Zealand. 

Did you take up your employer's offer of an anger management course? At least they're offering something constructive to help you out. 



> do employers in your country expect you to have "Interpersonal Skills" and understand "Business Ethics"


Well yes, and I'm grateful that they do. I wouldn't want to work for one that didn't.


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## pr2jd2b (May 9, 2010)

good on you, hope you benefit


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## ianm9887 (Aug 24, 2010)

*ianm*



anj1976 said:


> i understand that, there are a lot of elements that we can fight for like jalebies, gulab jamuns, halwas etc etc but is it worth it?  (i know it is worth it, it is worth a million fights but who else understands the culinary delight of Indians ).. as i said, lets leave it at that


hi after living in oz for just over 50 years ive experienced no end of racism [didnt know what a pommy c--t was until i came here] and have survived it so i would'nt worry about it if i were you.
being a good person yourself is all that really matters.
by and large australians think they are not racist but have the right to put down anyone they please because its THEIR COUNTRY ,but then the aborigines seem to think that its THEIR COUNTRY, and not whiteys country ,who knows what aborigines think of dark skinned visitors.
one thing i do know is that i would love to have one of those gorgeous indian sheilas for a partner!
does that make me racist?


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## Guest (May 6, 2011)

ianm9887 said:


> [Snip]... one thing i do know is that i would love to have one of those gorgeous indian sheilas for a partner!
> does that make me racist?


Chum, 'gorgeous indian sheila' is a fantasy you might not be able to fulfill in your life. But 'Gulab Jamuns' are here and now and a whole tin is available for less than 10 bucks. Go on and give 'em a try and tell us all whether you like 'em or not. And oh, did I fail to mention that 'gorgeous indian sheilas' find 'Gulab Jamun' eating guys to be extremely HOT!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ianm9887 (Aug 24, 2010)

*ianm*

ok i'll buy lots of tins.


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

gorgeous sheilas .. i dont remember meeting anyone called sheila who is gorgeous in 35 years of my life  
ahem ahem.. and i do know a lot of people..


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## Guest (May 6, 2011)

anj1976 said:


> gorgeous sheilas .. i dont remember meeting anyone called sheila who is gorgeous in 35 years of my life
> ahem ahem.. and i do know a lot of people..


Errrrrrr anj, searching on google for 'gorgeous indian sheilas' is somehow turning up the name of Katrina Kaif along with the name 'Sheila' in a certain provocative context :confused2: :confused2: :confused2: Care to explain???? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

Sheila Dixit, the CM of Delhi.. and Sheila ki Jawani, the song from some movie, i dont even remember the name of the movie, i think Tees Maar Khan, the song was picturized on her..

i dont know what proactive content you read but its best to ignore all that ..


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## Guest (May 6, 2011)

anj1976 said:


> [Snip]... i dont know what proactive content you read but its best to ignore all that ..


:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

:eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows:


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## Gaurav (Oct 29, 2009)

anj1976 said:


> Sheila Dixit, the CM of Delhi.. and Sheila ki Jawani, the song from some movie, i dont even remember the name of the movie, i think Tees Maar Khan, the song was picturized on her..
> 
> i dont know what proactive content you read but its best to ignore all that ..


It was in news that there were 2 sisters in mumbai unfortunately they had names Sheela and Munni, then when they used to step out of home some pranksters used to always tease then singing songs. Even their kids at school were teased on it


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## Guest (May 7, 2011)

Gaurav said:


> It was in news that there were 2 sisters in mumbai unfortunately they had names Sheela and Munni, then when they used to step out of home some pranksters used to always tease then singing songs. Even their kids at school were teased on it


Oooops!!!! I didn't know there were such connotations associated with this!!!! Just goes on to show how commenting about other cultures can backfire spectacularly. Another reason why we should avoid passing remarks about things we don't understand.


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## Ducati2010 (Jul 27, 2010)

hi 
was studying in sydney for the best university,it is there and not there, depend on the person, in general this country has rules and it is respected , 
problem is socialize , learn about australian , the more you go away from big cites you meet nicer people,but harder to socialize, this rule apply in most big cites in the world, but the solve is dress so nice all time and people love you, also australian love bars and barbecue so if you are not in the bar scine so be in barbeque they love it so much every week, get a nice house with barebuge and start making your circle by invite people, americans are the most friendly but in australia you make an effort and will get so many rewards, if you live in Melbourne or Sydney you will meet so many from all over the world, join a sport club dance other i met people from UK, canada , us , germany , some in one year visa and some work there.

my experience when i was in university there is a club i like to join , they accept me in the university in the small city, but they did not accept me in the will known big university , and found out the reason the president of the club did not like international at all to join for a reason, 
that not the end of life . there are more opportunities as you make it and not been stuck in one
wish you a great life


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## ozthedream (Dec 31, 2010)

Atta girl ! Thats the spirit . Need more like you and less scared people .


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