# Visitante No Longer Renewed



## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

It has been brought to my attention that those going to Nuevo Laredo to get another Visitante after their 180 day comes up, are not getting another one. Instead, they are being directed to go to the Consulate and apply for a Residente Temporal in the US.

Mexico officials are able to track those individuals by computer now, and they apparently are using that information. This is due to officials scanning passports now. Slowly but surely Mexico is advancing into the tech age, and ending the loopholes that didn't seem to matter before.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Seven years ago when I made my final run to the border to get a new FMT (at that time), I also went there to apply for Social Security. Reentering Mexico, the INM agent accused me of being one of those people who did this every six months and refused to give me a new tourist permit. I showed her my papers from SS that said that I was getting my pension and would qualify for a FM3 (also at that time). She was hesitant, but my begging prevailed. 

I expect a number of expats will be really p*ssed at this news.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> Seven years ago when I made my final run to the border to get a new FMT (at that time), I also went there to apply for Social Security. Reentering Mexico, the INM agent accused me of being one of those people who did this every six months and refused to give me a new tourist permit. I showed her my papers from SS that said that I was getting my pension and would qualify for a FM3 (also at that time). She was hesitant, but my begging prevailed.
> 
> I expect a number of expats will be really p*ssed at this news.


I know one expat who will be eligible to say "I told you so".


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I know one expat who will be eligible to say "I told you so".


I think I know who you mean.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

cscscs007 said:


> It has been brought to my attention that those going to Nuevo Laredo to get another Visitante after their 180 day comes up, are not getting another one. Instead, they are being directed to go to the Consulate and apply for a Residente Temporal in the US.
> 
> Mexico officials are able to track those individuals by computer now, and they apparently are using that information. This is due to officials scanning passports now. Slowly but surely Mexico is advancing into the tech age, and ending the loopholes that didn't seem to matter before.


Very interesting news and important to those expats who've been living here for years on Visitante cards. I wonder what proportion of expats in Mexico they represent.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

cscscs007 said:


> It has been brought to my attention that those going to Nuevo Laredo to get another Visitante after their 180 day comes up, are not getting another one. Instead, they are being directed to go to the Consulate and apply for a Residente Temporal in the US.
> 
> Mexico officials are able to track those individuals by computer now, and they apparently are using that information. This is due to officials scanning passports now. Slowly but surely Mexico is advancing into the tech age, and ending the loopholes that didn't seem to matter before.


I think that if you wait a day, they will give you another 6 months. Been my experience for 16 years. Will verify that in June.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> I think that if you wait a day, they will give you another 6 months. Been my experience for 16 years. Will verify that in June.


It sounds as though the procedures are changing - after all, nothing lasts forever. In any event, let us know what happens in June.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

One person's experience does not mean this will be the fate of all trying this. When I asked an immigration official about this issue at the airport last year, he indicated they have been tracking this information for a while now. He said if they see that somebody is coming in every six months, the individual may be "invited" to apply for a resident visa. But he said this doesn't mean that if they don't apply for residency, they will never be allowed back in. I think it depends on the individual official at the border. He clearly stated it is not illegal to come in every 6 months, as long as they leave by the 180 days. 

It will be interesting to see if this is a one off, or if this is the beginning of a trend.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

I tend to agree with Ojo. Maybe that is because that is what I want to believe! However one post without a lot of info does not mean much. The scanning of passports has been done for almost 2 years. I have not seen any other posts on this subject in any Mexican forums. There never was a rule that stated you could only get one 6 month FMM in a 12 month period. Has that changed? Who knows? But I would think that if a new rule was being enforced in 2015 it would have shown up before the middle of Feb. The folks at Migracion and Aduaneros are not exactly well informed individuals and they can make up rules on the fly!


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

I do not have this issue, I have been informed of this by others (more than 1 person), but only at Nuevo Laredo. All of them have exited the country for 1 day up to 3 days, then applied for another Visitante. 

It is probably up to the official at the counter, but if I was a Visitante holder looking for a renewal, I would probably be "smart" and not choose Nuevo Laredo as my destination for a renewal. If he can see that you are in his opinion trying to circumvent the law, most likely he can "flag" your information on his computer also.

I suppose if you require more info I can detail everything step by step, but that won't change the fact of what is going on. 

Believe me, I am a supporter of those with "Visitante" permits. According to the meeting in Chapala it was perfectly legal and acceptable. Now it seems, legal and acceptable may not be enough to the immigration official with the power of decision in his hands.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

It would be of a lot of benefit if someone would "quote" the rule about getting another Tourist Card (FMT) when yours for 180 days has expired, no?


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## travelinhobo (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm assuming from the responses that this "Visitante" card is what used to be known as the tourist FM3 card.? If so, I made a border run back in mid-October via Matamoros and had no problems re-entering. In fact, not having been in MX since 2012, I didn't know that the $20 fee had risen to $26. As for the rule, you leave, you return. The guy asks you a few required questions, you pay the fee at the IMM office at the border, they give you a printed reciept, and you're off.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The regulations regarding residency haven't changed. Persons who are residing in Mexico, as contrasted with persons visiting short-term, are required to apply for a visa other than the tourist card. That's been the rule for a very long time. Yes, many immigration employees are either corrupt or just don't care, and there are many expats who disrespect Mexico so much they don't think the rules apply to them.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

travelinhobo said:


> I'm assuming from the responses that this "Visitante" card is what used to be known as the tourist FM3 card.? ...


The Visitante is the card that tourists get when entering the country and allows you to stay for 180 days. The FM3 was a visa that you applied for at INM to live here as a legal resident. It has now been supplanted by the Residente Temporal visa.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> It would be of a lot of benefit if someone would "quote" the rule about getting another Tourist Card (FMT) when yours for 180 days has expired, no?


Article 26 of the rules state "up to 180 days." It also states what the INM officer can ask you about your visit and determine how many days he/she will give a tourist.

Google translation:

"Article 26. Listing of admission procedures into the country in the form, placement of people

Foreigners who do not require visas:

Case presented: Foreigners who intend to enter the country as
Visitors without permission to engage in gainful activity and are
nationals of countries with which Mexico has agreed suppression
visa, or who are not required visa under a unilateral decision
or commitment of the Mexican state.
Legal basis: Articles 3, fractions XI, XII, XV, XVIII and XXIX, 13, 16, 17, 34, 35, 37,
38, 43, 45, 81, 86, 87, 88 of the Act; 3 fractions IV, X, XV, XXII and XXVI;
51, 55, 57, 60, 61, 65, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, last paragraph 89, 90, 93,
94, 98 and 152 of Regulation.

Form of presentation: Personal.

Place where it occurs: Places for international movement of people.

Amount of rights: The appropriate pursuant to Federal Law.

Deadline for resolution: Immediate.

Duration of authorization: 180 calendar days.

(Second Section) OFFICIAL JOURNAL Thursday November 8, 2012
7 calendar days for aircrew members on active duty.
3 calendar days to crew members of vessels
surtas navigation height in national ports.
21 calendar days people aboard cruise ships documented
With collective permission.
Exceptions to Article 15-A of
LFPA:
It takes the original documents identified in the requirements 1, 2,
3, 4 and 5.

Requirements:
1. Passport or identity and travel document that is valid under the law
international.
2. FMM duly completed.
3. The alien beneficiary of commitments made by the Mexican government, in addition to
mentioned documents must submit one of the following documents:
a) A document certifying permanent residence in Canada, USA,
Japan, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or any of the countries
make up the Schengen Area;
b) Visa valid and in force in the United States;
c) Card APEC Business Traveler (ABTC) adopted by Mexico;
d) Certificate that certifies as a member of the crew of the aircraft as above, or
e) Book sea, if a member of the crew of the vessel top Mexican port
in international voyage. If the crew up by air to enroll on a ship anchored in
National Harbor, shall also produce sea notepad document attesting their
enrollment, data from the vessel and the Mexican port in which it is located.

4. The immigration authority may request the foreign person to check the reason for your trip,
by any of the following documents:
a) hotel reservation, tickets back (path), tickets tours (path).
b) mandate letter in Spanish parent company, affiliate or subsidiary foreigner
indicating that the foreign person is employed her and payment of services
they provide in the national territory shall be borne by it.
c) Copy of the technology transfer, patents and trademarks, purchase of
machinery and equipment, technical training of staff, or any other related
production process of a company established in Mexico or linking part
foreign to the Mexican side, or proof of appointment by the shareholders
companies legally established in Mexico.
d) Letter of organization or public or private institution that invite foreign person
to participate in an activity unpaid country, revealed the object of
the visit and the estimated length of stay. If the organization or institution will meet
the travel and stay of the foreigner in the country, should
attach responsive letter.
e) Letter of invitation or acceptance of any institution belonging to the Educational System
National for courses, studies or research projects or training by a
maximum stay of one hundred eighty days.

5. In the case of children or adolescents or persons under legal guardianship in terms of legislation civil, accompanied by an adult or third solo travelers must present
document attesting permission to leave the country for people who exercise
upon them the authority or guardianship granted before a notary public or competent authority.
In the case of a document issued abroad, must be legalized or apostilled
as appropriate, with translation in the case of a language other than Spanish.

6. Where applicable, provide the immigration authorities information be required.

Criteria resolution:
I. The crew of boats in ocean navigation, entering the territory
Thursday November 8, 2012 OFFICIAL GAZETTE (Second Section)
national sea out to air or to embark on another ship to leave
the country or entering air to enroll a vessel anchored in Mexican port and exit
the country, will be documented with FMM in the condition of stay of visitors without
permission for a temporary paid three calendar days activities.
II. Foreigners who integrate electronic listings of passengers and crew of ships
cruise on international voyage, landing in any Mexican port to visit or
to visit the surrounding areas and embark on the same vessel to continue their journey, they will
documented in the first port of arrival through collective permission on the condition
stay away without permission for paid for a period of twenty activities
calendar days.
III. Are considered members of the aircrew on active duty, those foreign persons
whose name is entered in the general statement or electronic lists
passengers, crew and transport.
The Department shall exempt from the filing of the document mentioned in paragraph 3, subparagraph d)
by this information, members of the aircrew on active duty, when checking the
their behalf is in the general statement or electronic passenger lists,
crew and transport.
In these cases, foreigners will be documented with FMM, in the condition of stay
Away without permission for paid by a seven-day temporary activities
natural.

Important information for the user:

- The FMM will be delivered by international flight/shipping companies and travel agencies. are
encouraged to complete the immigration form before arrival.

- If applicable admission, the immigration officer will retain the section check the FMM.

The alien shall retain the checkout section of the FMM attesting to their
Average stay in the country by the temporality specified therein, and shall
deliver it when leaving the country."

http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/marco_...entos_tramites_procedimientos_migratorios.pdf


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> It would be of a lot of benefit if someone would "quote" the rule about getting another Tourist Card (FMT) when yours for 180 days has expired, no?


There is no rule in effect so far, only the rule to get up to a FMM 180 day tourist card.

If they wanted to limit FMM 180 day tourist cards to 1 every 12 months it would be in the rules, but isn´t, so far.

Longford didn´t read a rule stating this long accepted practise was because of corruption or a just don´t care attitude. it is he who feels that way, not INM officers. They are following the rules.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> There is no rule in effect so far, only the rule to get up to a FMM 180 day tourist card.
> 
> If they wanted to limit FMM 180 day tourist cards to 1 every 12 months it would be in the rules, but isn´t, so far.
> 
> Longford didn´t read a rule stating this long accepted practise was because of corruption or a just don´t care attitude. it is he who feels that way, not INM officers. They are following the rules.


Exactly. It isn't that you can't repeatedly renew tourist cards, it's if you want to stay long term without the hassle of doing border runs you must apply for a more permanent visa. I saw one person report this on a Facebook Group and they all got upset as their emphasis is touring Mexico. But so far haven't seen them report any other crossing requiring this.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

It seems like nothing has changed. Just a few "rogue" agents at one border crossing. There have been no reports of this occurring at Nogales. The immigration agents don't even care if you turn in your old FMM when exiting the country. At this crossing there is no easy way to turn in your old papers. No place to park. No booth on the outbound side.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

"- If applicable admission, the immigration officer will retain the section check the FMM."

Correction; It should read;

"- If applicable admission, the immigration officer will retain the check in section of the FMM."


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Longford said:


> The regulations regarding residency haven't changed. Persons who are residing in Mexico, as contrasted with persons visiting short-term, are required to apply for a visa other than the tourist card. That's been the rule for a very long time. Yes, many immigration employees are either corrupt or just don't care, and there are many expats who disrespect Mexico so much they don't think the rules apply to them.


I agree 100%. This "tourist card" is for people who plan to "visit" Mexico for 180 days, or less, not for someone who lives here year round (there are visas for that). Recalling my experience over the years (we come and go about every 3 months, but over the years, there were times when we would come and go every 6 to 8 weeks). Once, when returning, I still had a "tourist card" good for 7 weeks, but I wanted to turn it in for 180 days (in N. Laredo) because were going to visit for 12 weeks. The agent said I could, but would have to wait until the next day to get a new one. We were in a hurry, so we went ahead with the old and shortened our trip to 7 weeks.
I do not believe that any rule has changed on the "tourist card", or it would have been posted. I just think the newer and maybe less corrupt/don't care what the rules say agents are finally enforcing the rules they have had when the applicant appears not to be a tourist. If you are denied, I believe you have 2 choices: (a) wait for the shift to change, or (b) go to another nearby crossing. But, remember Longford's post, this "tourist card" is for someone NOT living 100% of the time in Mexico, so use some common sense when you apply.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

coondawg said:


> I agree 100%. This "tourist card" is for people who plan to "visit" Mexico for 180 days, or less, not for someone who lives here year round (there are visas for that). Recalling my experience over the years (we come and go about every 3 months, but over the years, there were times when we would come and go every 6 to 8 weeks). Once, when returning, I still had a "tourist card" good for 7 weeks, but I wanted to turn it in for 180 days (in N. Laredo) because were going to visit for 12 weeks. The agent said I could, but would have to wait until the next day to get a new one. We were in a hurry, so we went ahead with the old and shortened our trip to 7 weeks.
> I do not believe that any rule has changed on the "tourist card", or it would have been posted. I just think the newer and maybe less corrupt/don't care what the rules say agents are finally enforcing the rules they have had when the applicant appears not to be a tourist. If you are denied, I believe you have 2 choices: (a) wait for the shift to change, or (b) go to another nearby crossing. But, remember Longford's post, this "tourist card" is for someone NOT living 100% of the time in Mexico, so use some common sense when you apply.


When you are on your 180 days what are you doing that isn't "living?" Does it restrict you from renting a home? Or must you stay at a hotel? From buying groceries or must you eat in restaurants? The permanent visas allow you to stay without exiting the country. You get more privileges IF you meet the qualifications. Want to see Mexico greatly clarify the rules? Have everyone living on tourist cards exit the country and not return because they don't qualify. 10's of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of spending gringos leaving at once would certainly get the attention of officials trying to increase revenue.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

vantexan said:


> When you are on your 180 days what are you doing that isn't "living?" Does it restrict you from renting a home? Or must you stay at a hotel? From buying groceries or must you eat in restaurants? The permanent visas allow you to stay without exiting the country. You get more privileges IF you meet the qualifications. Want to see Mexico greatly clarify the rules? Have everyone living on tourist cards exit the country and not return because they don't qualify. 10's of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of spending gringos leaving at once would certainly get the attention of officials trying to increase revenue.


I think Longford addressed that in his post.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

vantexan said:


> When you are on your 180 days what are you doing that isn't "living?" Does it restrict you from renting a home? Or must you stay at a hotel? From buying groceries or must you eat in restaurants? The permanent visas allow you to stay without exiting the country. You get more privileges IF you meet the qualifications. Want to see Mexico greatly clarify the rules? Have everyone living on tourist cards exit the country and not return because they don't qualify. 10's of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of spending gringos leaving at once would certainly get the attention of officials trying to increase revenue.


Really? Then why bother at all with resident permits of any kind for gringos? Because we all know the economy here is dependent on their spending.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Much ado about nothing. The op does not have direct information on this subject. It was " brought to his attention". I asked in another forum and got 2 replies. One renewed 3 weeks ago with zero problems. The other turned in the old one and got a new one. They did not scan the old FMM when he turned it in. I would think that if this is some new interpretation of the rules we would have heard from many people.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Folks who make border runs every 180 days should probably have a back-up plan. Getting a fresh FMM is entirely up to the official in front of you at the border, and they now have a very good computer system to check your details. Yes, they can turn you away and suggest that you apply for a Residente Temporal visa. If you cannot qualify, you may need to plan on a ‘vacation‘ NoB for a while before trying again.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

For a Foreigner to be legally in the National Territory outside the "Free Zone" they must have:

A. A valid Residente Permanente visa/card.

OR

B. A valid Residente Temporal visa/card.

OR

C. A valid FMM card.

No corruption or don´t care attitute here, just the rules and laws.

If the issuing INM oficer doesn´t feel you deserve a FMM card he/she will not issue one to you and you cannot go into the National Territory past the "Free Zone" and be legally in Mexico. Again no corruption or don´t care attitude here either as they are following the rules.

You are the person applying for either a Residente Permanente, Residenete Temporal or a 180 day FMM card, not them. They are the gov´t. agency processing your request. You either qualify or you do not qualify according to the rules and laws. The rules and laws do not state a foreigner cannot have more than one 180 day FMM card in a 12 month period. It states the issuing INM officer has the descretion to approve the request or not. Also no coruption or don´t care attitute here. They are following the laws and rules.

If the issuing INM officer decides you do not qualify under the rules for not supplying the documents required or for another reason [criminal convictions etc.] then you will not be able to recieve the 180 day FMM from him or her. You will not be allowed into Mexico at that time. No corruption or don´t care attitute here either.

Where is the corruption or don´t care attitute Longford and Coondawg are talking about?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> Where is the corruption or don´t care attitute Longford and Coondawg are talking about?


Alan, you wouldn't see it if it slapped you in the face. I have encountered both, but you continue to discredit others experiences, as if you are the final judge. You are not. If you choose to close your eyes and ears, you are welcome to do that. Please do not claim our experiencesd are lies, ok? TIA for being understanding of and respectful of others views and experiences.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Alan, you wouldn't see it if it slapped you in the face. I have encountered both, but you continue to discredit others experiences, as if you are the final judge. You are not. If you choose to close your eyes and ears, you are welcome to do that. Please do not claim our experiencesd are lies, ok? TIA for being understanding of and respectful of others views and experiences.


I am 100% sincere in asking you where is the corruption or don´t care attitude in this senario you both say is there. I don´t see anything going on that could possibly be against any of the rules or laws that any INM officer does in granting a request for a 180 day FMM card to any foreigner whom qualifies under the requirements in article 26. Explain in detail, please.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I am 100% sincere in asking you where is the corruption. . .


Wouldn't corruption necessarily involve monetary bribes?


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## michmex (Jul 15, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> Wouldn't corruption necessarily involve monetary bribes?


Usually, but not always.

"dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery."

https://www.google.com/search?q=cor...urceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=corruption

I personally know of a case where an immigration official asked for his relative to be given a normal type, regular paying job at one of our plants. The relative was not given a job. The result - When a company plan landed with very high ranking officials on board for a review of plant operations they were not cleared for entry into Mexico and never even de-planed. After several hours of discussions the plane returned to the USA with the officials still on board.

Was it a corrupt act? Most likely it was. Was any money involved? Did the immigration official receive any direct benefit? No and no. The immigration official's relative was later hired.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> Really? Then why bother at all with resident permits of any kind for gringos? Because we all know the economy here is dependent on their spending.


Every sovereign nation on Earth has residency requirements for foreign nationals. Some, like Mexico, make generous allowances for their neighbors because they recognize tourism is an excellent industry to provide jobs for their own citizens. Mexico is very much dependent on tourism and those who stay the full 180 days and spend their incomes in Mexico are an important component of their tourism industry. The fact that for decades Mexico has allowed Americans and others to reenter every 180 days isn't some nefarious scheme by corrupt officials but a recognition that they want as many as possible to stay as long as possible and spend as much as possible because it's good for their country. It's not like the country will collapse if those who can't meet residency requirements left Mexico for good. But Mexico is happy with their continually coming back or they'd have stopped it a long time ago.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Folks who make border runs every 180 days should probably have a back-up plan. Getting a fresh FMM is entirely up to the official in front of you at the border, and they now have a very good computer system to check your details. Yes, they can turn you away and suggest that you apply for a Residente Temporal visa. If you cannot qualify, you may need to plan on a ‘vacation‘ NoB for a while before trying again.


But are they actually doing it?


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Alan, you wouldn't see it if it slapped you in the face. I have encountered both, but you continue to discredit others experiences, as if you are the final judge. You are not. If you choose to close your eyes and ears, you are welcome to do that. Please do not claim our experiencesd are lies, ok? TIA for being understanding of and respectful of others views and experiences.


But where is the evidence of ten's of thousands of Americans who repeatedly renew their FMM's only being allowed to do so if they bribe someone?


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## michmex (Jul 15, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> Folks who make border runs every 180 days should probably have a back-up plan. Getting a fresh FMM is entirely up to the official in front of you at the border, and they now have a very good computer system to check your details. Yes, they can turn you away and suggest that you apply for a Residente Temporal visa. If you cannot qualify, you may need to plan on a ‘vacation‘ NoB for a while before trying again.



Very good advice. Recently the various Mexican Consulates have been posting the following warning on their websites.

*"If you are granted a Mexican visa you will be able to travel to Mexico. It does not guarantee entry to the country"*

Here is the link to the page on the Los Angeles Consulate's website. It appears on others as well.

VISAS

The Detroit Consulate's website goes into more detail.

http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/detroit/images/stories/Visas/guia_entrevista_interview.pdf

And references, "In accordance with article 60 of the Reglamento de la Ley de Migración. Published at the Diario Ofcial de la Federación on September 28, 2012." 

DOF - Diario Oficial de la FederaciÃ³n

Mexico seems to have adopted the same policy advisory as the USA in this regards. I have never heard of a holder of a valid Mexican visa being denied entry but I suppose it could happen if the INM official does not like the answers to his questions or the visa holder appears on some nefarious list.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

vantexan said:


> But are they actually doing it?


Some seem to be. Seems to me that is what the OP suggested. Read carefully the post, then you will know what is suggested.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> I am 100% sincere in asking you where is the corruption or don´t care attitude in this senario you both say is there. I don´t see anything going on that could possibly be against any of the rules or laws that any INM officer does in granting a request for a 180 day FMM card to any foreigner whom qualifies under the requirements in article 26. Explain in detail, please.


Alan, I am 100% sincere in telling you that I am sick and tired of you responding to something that I have posted by claiming that I said things that are not in my post. Now, I understand how Longford must feel, as you have been after him ever since I first joined this Forum. How sad.
READ our posts again. They need NO interpretation. The words are very clear. Neither of us stated that corrupt/or don't care attitude agents were involved in THIS situation. That is YOUR fabrication of what we said. I believe that those agents that go ahead and give another 180 days when they "know" they should do something else, are lazy, don't care what the rules say, etc. But, I never suggested, nor did Longford, that applied in THIS situation, when the rules were evidently followed for a change. READ.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

vantexan said:


> Every sovereign nation on Earth has residency requirements for foreign nationals. Some, like Mexico, make generous allowances for their neighbors because they recognize tourism is an excellent industry to provide jobs for their own citizens. Mexico is very much dependent on tourism and those who stay the full 180 days and spend their incomes in Mexico are an important component of their tourism industry. The fact that for decades Mexico has allowed Americans and others to reenter every 180 days isn't some nefarious scheme by corrupt officials but a recognition that they want as many as possible to stay as long as possible and spend as much as possible because it's good for their country. It's not like the country will collapse if those who can't meet residency requirements left Mexico for good. But Mexico is happy with their continually coming back or they'd have stopped it a long time ago.


People that spend more than 180 days in a foreign country are not tourists. Mexico came up with the FM3 a few decades ago to allow those that can afford to live in the country for extended periods of time to do so. Which, shoots holes in your theory. If they don't qualify under residente temporal rules then they contribute little to this country's well being.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

It is also easier, than most people believe, to obtain a Residente Permanente visa. If a couple, only one meed apply at a consulate in their home country; the other can enter Mexico as a tourist and apply for equal visa status once the spouse has the visa card in hand. Financial requirements for the pricipal person were recently lowered and the present exchange rate lowers them even further. There are no financial proofs necessary for the spouse. After four years, they may apply for Residente Permanente without the requirement for financial proofs. 
Meanwhile, folks with unsavory appearance or behavior may be turned away at the whim of the border officials, so dress nicely, smile and be polite.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Richmex: That consulate is talking about Visas. This discussion is about FMM's which are not Visas. They are tourist permits. Visas are not required for Canadians or US citizens


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> People that spend more than 180 days in a foreign country are not tourists. Mexico came up with the FM3 a few decades ago to allow those that can afford to live in the country for extended periods of time to do so. Which, shoots holes in your theory. If they don't qualify under residente temporal rules then they contribute little to this country's well being.


Exactly, they aren't. That's why tourists leave at 180 days or sooner and get a new card to stay up to another 180 days. Thanks for helping me make that point!😃


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

vantexan said:


> Exactly, they aren't. That's why tourists leave at 180 days or sooner and get a new card to stay up to another 180 days. Thanks for helping me make that point!😃


I don't think you have a point.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> I don't think you have a point.


I do, but I hide it with a good hat!😀


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Alan, I am 100% sincere in telling you that I am sick and tired of you responding to something that I have posted by claiming that I said things that are not in my post. Now, I understand how Longford must feel, as you have been after him ever since I first joined this Forum. How sad.
> READ our posts again. They need NO interpretation. The words are very clear. Neither of us stated that corrupt/or don't care attitude agents were involved in THIS situation. That is YOUR fabrication of what we said. I believe that those agents that go ahead and give another 180 days when they "know" they should do something else, are lazy, don't care what the rules say, etc. But, I never suggested, nor did Longford, that applied in THIS situation, when the rules were evidently followed for a change. READ.





AlanMexicali said:


> I am 100% sincere in asking you where is the corruption or don´t care attitude in this senario you both say is there. I don´t see anything going on that could possibly be against any of the rules or laws that any INM officer does in granting a request for a 180 day FMM card to any foreigner whom qualifies under the requirements in article 26. Explain in detail, please.





Longford said:


> The regulations regarding residency haven't changed. Persons who are residing in Mexico, as contrasted with persons visiting short-term, are required to apply for a visa other than the tourist card. That's been the rule for a very long time. Yes, many immigration employees are either corrupt or just don't care, and there are many expats who disrespect Mexico so much they don't think the rules apply to them.


According to my request for a detailed explanation of what is corrupt or a don´t care attitude do I need to add when any INM officer gives ANOTHER 180 day FMM card to ANY foreigner who requests one under the current rules for determining if that foreigner qualifies. That has been the subject of the whole thread, no?

You add that that is correct but add exactly like Longford your own secret/hidden rule that the INM officer "should" not do this as he/she is not following the rules. My question is what rule or rules is he/she not following? It appears from your post it is your and Longford´s rule, not the INM Article 27 rules. The laws and rules are for processing requests from foreigners whether requesting a Residente Permanente visa/card, a Residente Temporal visa/card or a 180 day FMM visitante card. No where is there a rule or law that states a foreigner HAS to have a resident visa/card to be legally in the National Territory.. a FMM card will do also.


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## Playaboy (Apr 11, 2014)

Corruption? Mordida? None of this occurs in Mexico.

In the not to distant past, I had personally been solicited for a bribe by an INM official. I have seen it happen to others too. This happens at the Chetumal/Belice border crossing. INM agents were only giving 30 day FMT's. You were able to receive 180 days by paying a special fee.

I saw this happen once, as I was the driver for this group. A Cancun airport INM agent gave new FMT's to a female friend, her husband and another friend to extend their "vacation". They paid the "tourist tax" directly to the agent instead of paying at the bank. 

I know it helped that she wore a very short skirt and low cut blouse and did all the talking about extending her "Mexication".

Isn't it wonderful that Mexico is a country where the letter of the law is supreme. Ain't no corruption here.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> No where is there a rule or law that states a foreigner HAS to have a resident visa/card to be legally in the National Territory.. a FMM card will do also.


Ok, you win. I give up. You have proved that you can't read, and unfortunately, it looks like Van and TG can't either.  There are several here that can. 
Here you go again, fabrication of things that no one said. No one ever said that you needed a RP or RT to be in the interior. It was stated that those who live full time in the interior need one. That is what the RP and RT are issued for. Lots of difference. READ,, and stop changing what people say.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Ok, you win. I give up. You have proved that you can't read, and unfortunately, it looks like Van and TG can't either.  There are several here that can.
> Here you go again, fabrication of things that no one said. No one ever said that you needed a RP or RT to be in the interior. It was stated that those who live full time in the interior need one. That is what the RP and RT are issued for. Lots of difference. READ,, and stop changing what people say.


It is amazing the energy and importance people give to whether or not is is legal|okay|nice to stay in Mexico on serial tourist permits.

I had a similar experience once in the US. I had a visiting scientist whose son was with her on a tourist permit. She was really upset once when they had to make a trip to the Canadian border so he could leave and come in on a fresh tourist permit. US immigration was perfectly okay with it, but was adamant that he had to leave the country before getting a new permit. I think that is the whole point of the time limit. It gives the country a chance to decide if they want to let you in again. It is not like overstaying. You leave, you ask to reenter. The country can decide if they want you back. As long as you behave while you are here, there are no problems coming back, but you still have to leave and reenter every time to give them the opportunity to reevaluate.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> You leave, you ask to reenter. The country can decide if they want you back. As long as you behave while you are here, there are no problems coming back, but you still have to leave and reenter every time to give them the opportunity to reevaluate.


Exactly. As Longford pointed out, the rules have not changed, some "visitors" to Mexico think they are above the law or rules, want a new 180, and do not want to follow these rules and leave the country. Often, in my personal experience, the agent has never asked any questions, never looked at my responses on the application, just merely put "180" in the number of days. That, to me, is not doing their job and being lazy or not caring to do their job correct. Did I complain? Certainly not, as I have been coming to Mexico long enough to know that is "just the way things normally work" here. It is the function (according to the posts by Alan) of the agents to determine your purpose for entering the interior of Mexico (if you are a tourist, for business, etc.) and to decide how many days to give you (up to 180) as a tourist. If they determine you are not a tourist, why would they issue you a "tourist card" ? Just seems to me they would tell you that you need to do something else. But, in the past, getting this "tourist card" has always just been "automatic".

So, here we may have a situation where the agent is actually "doing his/her job correctly", and some people are getting up tight about things changing. Things are not changing with the rules, just maybe some people are doing their job for a change.
The RP and the RT are visas that are for people who live FULL time in the interior of Mexico, and it sounds to me like the agent determined that the person in the OP was determined by him/her to not be eligible for a "tourist card" by the agent. So, he told the applicant what he needed to do to enter the interior Mexico.

Most people here agree with the above. [Cut]


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

I really do not know why this thread continues. It is based on a statement that has nothing to confirm it really happened . Yet everyone wants to debate. Give it a rest and let's discuss something useful. Besides it is getting far too personal. I am surprised a moderator has not stepped in!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Exactly. As Longford pointed out, the rules have not changed, some "visitors" to Mexico think they are above the law or rules, want a new 180, and do not want to follow these rules and leave the country. Often, in my personal experience, the agent has never asked any questions, never looked at my responses on the application, just merely put "180" in the number of days. That, to me, is not doing their job and being lazy or not caring to do their job correct. Did I complain? Certainly not, as I have been coming to Mexico long enough to know that is "just the way things normally work" here. It is the function (according to the posts by Alan) of the agents to determine your purpose for entering the interior of Mexico (if you are a tourist, for business, etc.) and to decide how many days to give you (up to 180) as a tourist. If they determine you are not a tourist, why would they issue you a "tourist card" ? Just seems to me they would tell you that you need to do something else. But, in the past, getting this "tourist card" has always just been "automatic".
> 
> So, here we may have a situation where the agent is actually "doing his/her job correctly", and some people are getting up tight about things changing. Things are not changing with the rules, just maybe some people are doing their job for a change.
> The RP and the RT are visas that are for people who live FULL time in the interior of Mexico, and it sounds to me like the agent determined that the person in the OP was determined by him/her to not be eligible for a "tourist card" by the agent. So, he told the applicant what he needed to do to enter the interior Mexico.
> ...


I don't know what the majority of people here agree with. The ones who have chosen to chime in the on the topic fall on both sides of the issue.

I think you misunderstood my post. My experience, based on talks given by Mexican immigration officers and on the US episode I related in a previous post, is that the laws require tourists to leave when the permit expires. They say nothing about how long a delay is required to get another. When a person leaves, the country has a chance to refuse them a new permit. But why would they unless the person has acquired a criminal record while they were here. 

Mexico's budget is heavily dependent on visitors. Tourists, whether here for two weeks or multiple 6 month periods, bring in money from outside the country. That is the purpose of all the advertising Mexico does trying to attract people to visit. I fail to understand why they should be happy to have someone visit and spend money for a few weeks, but be unhappy if people want to stay and buy food, restaurant meals, gas and other necessities for long time periods. Visas are convenient for people who want more assurance of their continued presence here, or who want to work, or avoid regular exits with a return subject to the whims of a border agent. From the country's point of view, tourist permits are fine. They guarantee that you will be spending money from other sources since tourists are not allow to work or run businesses.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> I think you misunderstood my post. When a person leaves, the country has a chance to refuse them a new permit. But why would they unless the person has acquired a criminal record while they were here.
> 
> I don't think so. I never said otherwise.
> 
> ...


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Bobbyb said:


> I really do not know why this thread continues. It is based on a statement that has nothing to confirm it really happened . Yet everyone wants to debate. Give it a rest and let's discuss something useful. Besides it is getting far too personal. I am surprised a moderator has not stepped in!


If you're uncomfortable with the discussion then maybe you should just ignore it and move on to one which you have more interest in, rather than ask that it, this one, be closed, so that others who are interested in the discussion ... in what's a very serious issue/topic for some expats ... can continue to discuss it. If participants cross the line and violate website/forum rules the website has effective ways to remedy those situations. I've always been wary of calls for censorship or the curtailing discussions because one or another forum participant doesn't like the topic or the direction.


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> I really do not know why this thread continues. It is based on a statement that has nothing to confirm it really happened . Yet everyone wants to debate. Give it a rest and let's discuss something useful. Besides it is getting far too personal. I am surprised a moderator has not stepped in!


Would it help you to know that it really did happen, that I actually witnessed it? I know for a fact that some had to actually return to their home state (Nebraska) and go through the Omaha, NEBRASKA USA Mexico Consulate Office and process their paperwork.

To insinuate that I am a liar is frankly rude and insulting, and I take offense to your obtuseness.


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

I can understand the logic with the INM officer using the route that he did after reading the comments, and considerable thought.

In order to obtain a RT or RP one must return to the US and go to the Mexico Consulate office. As required a portion of the process involves a criminal background check issued by law enforcement verifying a criminal record, or a lack of one.

This would enable the Immigration office to get a clearer picture of whom this person is that wishes to stay in Mexico for longer periods of time. Mexico has no desire to inhibit tourists coming to Mexico and spending those American dollars, because they assume that the individual will be returning to their country of origin. For those wishing to live in Mexico however, they want more information available to them to make the final decision as to accept their presence in Mexico or refuse admission.

Using this logic it makes sense to me, at least. Now that passports have been scanned for some time now, an INM official can easily determine if an individual is circumventing the RT/RP requirements by renewing their "Tourista" every 180 days. 

I can see, realistically, that the days of renewing every 180 days may soon be coming to an end.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

cscscs007 said:


> I can understand the logic with the INM officer using the route that he did after reading the comments, and considerable thought.
> 
> In order to obtain a RT or RP one must return to the US and go to the Mexico Consulate office. As required a portion of the process involves a criminal background check issued by law enforcement verifying a criminal record, or a lack of one.
> 
> ...


According to another forum there was a meeting held that was attended by a major INM official concerning the new financial requirements. He was asked if people could still just renew tourist cards every 180 days and he said yes, nothing had changed in that regard. I don't see the Mexican gov't changing their view, but officials at the border who want to mess with Americans might be on occasion a problem. Until there's something official from the Mexican gov't I'll chalk this up as a few expats that resent people who don't go through the trouble they went through trying to scare people. Or people who meet the financial requirements wanting to keep out those who don't. Bottom line how anyone manages to live in Mexico is their business and the Mexican gov't's, not their nosey ****** neighbor's.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

So one person has actually stated he saw this happen and now he is drawing the conclusion that things are changing. This kind of statement has been on this and another major Mexico forum for at least 10 years. Mostly just rumors or those with the RP's or RT's chastising those without. I might add that over the years this question has been asked at immigration offices in major Mexican cities and at seminars with immigration officials. The answer has always been that nothing has changed. The OP has gone from "being informed that this happened" to being irate as he DID see it happen. Funny how the forums are not full of people confirming this change.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

If he says it happened, I 'll accept that.

However, just because it happens to one, two, or 10 people, does not mean any rules have changed, nor does anyone need to get worried, at the present time. IMHO. Anyone concerned, however, should have a Plan B, just in case it were to happen to them.


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

Having a Plan B never hurt anyone.


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