# Advice for SIRV visa (moving from the UK to the Philippines)



## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

Hi everyone, I am planning to move to the Philippines with my family (husband and two kids) to the Philippines in April 2023.

We were looking at the SRRV visa but it is suspended for people under 50 years old (my husband and I are both under 50). So, we will apply for the SIRV visa, which is fine as we are interested to invest in the stock market.

We will apply for the SIRV visa once we arrive in the Philippines in April 2023 but I want to have all the paperwork ready beforehand and I need your advice.

I have contacted the BOI with my questions but they haven’t replied to me.
Here is what the Board Of Investment requires for the application:










My questions are:

The BOI requires three sets of documents. Do they mean the original document and 3 copies of the original document? For documents such as Birth Certificate and Marriage Certificate, I only have one original apostilled document. I got married in the USA so my Marriage Certificate got apostilled by the US.
I am currently a resident of the United Kingdom. For Police Clearance, is it be better to get the Police Certificate issued by the ACRO Criminal Records Office (acro.police.uk) and get it apostilled? Or is it better to get the certification of no criminal record by the INTERPOL? Please note that we have never visited the Philippines before. It will be our first time there.
For the medical certificate, if I understand correctly I have to visit a hospital or clinic and get them to fill in the below form. Where can I get that done in the UK? I’m not sure the hospital or GP will do that. Or can I get this done when I arrive in the Philippines?







Do you know if there is a company that assists in finding permanent housing, and applying for visas and school?
What is the best health insurance company in the Philippines?
Thank you very much for your help.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hi Amy and welcome to the forum, hope you find the answers you search for here from members.

Just curious? Why pick the Philippines especially if you never visited for such a big move, might not be your cup of tea after awhile and to commit from memory a minimum of 75K US into the SIRV scheme before you have boots on the ground? (Have a holiday first). Have you done your ROI's comparing PH to UK? I keep all my investments in Australia as a much better return.
Do you intend to work here or only invest cash to get a visa because you are all under 50 Y/O?

You need to be pretty switched on with investments and/or work to make decent money here. Most members here are retired and enjoy the life offered here with all its idiosyncrasies and no need to worry about income. 
I have 9 to 10 workers building here and costs me under AU 800 bucks a week for all and simply avail the visitor visa which is good for 3 years until a visa run and that costs me around AU 550 per annum then an exit/return flight and a throw away ticket.

As said I hope You get some good feedback here.

Cheers, Steve.


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## freebiefan (Nov 11, 2020)

There are some excellent stocks if you back the right horses. I spread my investments between UK Singapore HK and US but overp ast 5 years have been playing a bit with PSE. 
Areit an Ayala company is up 34% in past two years... DMC an outstanding company that is giving 90% of its dividend back to shareholders sometimes is currently up 97% since I invested 2.5 years and has given me over p300K in dividends. BPI has nice small but steady growth. Converge was up 150% and now down 20% in past 2 years. Some large fluctuations sometimes with weird price to book ratios. Mining stocks have generally done well past few years. Dividends arent great but can sometimes be good.
But its not a large or major market and a few large trades can change the entire market. Lots insider trades that never get discovered as its a bit of an old boys network at times. But generally the market follows its own direction and it doesnt really matter whos the President. etc. Its a fun market that I use sometimes to " play" Would I put my serious money in it. No way...But then I do own a good condo here and thats enough of an investment for me here where thnigs can go sideways fast on occasion. Id definately suggest you decide if this is the right country for you to be in, as it can be a bit wild west at times.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Yes definitely visit, more than once before burning any bridges. In general schooling here is very poor unless you find a very expensive international school, those who can afford it school abroad. Healthcare is spotty, public hospitals are where you go to die. There are one or two good hospitals but they are expensive and only in major cities where the cost of living is also high. A western lifestyle is more expensive here than in the west. Health insurance is available and reasonable whilst young but ramps up as you age then many companies have age limits. It's not in there interests to insure people that are likely to become sick.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

amy7_uk said:


> Hi everyone, I am planning to move to the Philippines with my family (husband and two kids) to the Philippines in April 2023.
> 
> We were looking at the SRRV visa but it is suspended for people under 50 years old (my husband and I are both under 50). So, we will apply for the SIRV visa, which is fine as we are interested to invest in the stock market.
> 
> We will apply for the SIRV visa once we arrive in the Philippines in April 2023 but I want to have all the paperwork ready beforehand and I need your advice.


 Are you sure SIRV allow the deposit to be used for stock market? 
Its long time since I did read that law, but I dont remember any such, although I werent looking for it by I looked for investing in OWN business.
I doubt it because stock market dont add jobs as starting new businesses can do, specialy if starting production export businesses so dont take jobs from excisting businesses (as shops do.)

Perhaps you have red there are restrictions against foreigners owning businesses in the Philippines? Yes there are, *but none* for "export businesses" without own land (and after much law studying I have found some other solution possibilities too but they are some limited, while no max limits for export businesses.)
Beside the two businesses I have started allready for myself together with a tribe Filipino, we are in discussions with a huge investor to start more than my money is enough to do. We and the team of good workers - rare - we have access to and hire some of ourself allready, will handle these businesses too if reach agreement with this investor. Beside much law studies, I have spend much time researching what business ideas have very good potentials in the Philippines - and eliminated many, which dont have 
If you want we can perhaps suit to your needs, undepending of if you want to do some work yourself or just invest, specialy if we dont reach agreement with the huge investor, because then we have rather much worker and interesting projects capacity left. We are located at Palawan - voted among the most popular islands in the world several times - and dont have any earthquakes  thats why I chosed to locate my businesses there. I have found interesting object elsewhere too, but the one I think of mainly got sold recently. But at Palawan we know of several worth checking.


amy7_uk said:


> Do you know if there is a company that assists in finding permanent housing, and applying for visas and school.


 I havent used any, but I know there are FREE ones, paid by the government, who others are satisfied with, who assist with Visa applications. You can see details in other topics where others have asked about only Visa. 

Concerning housing I happen to know of some myself by I have seen some when I have looked for objects for myself, plus I know some real estate agents. There are such "everywhere". DONT buy condos under construction, because there are many scammers or incompetent such developers (although a few have ok reputation). 
But as most will advice, dont buy any home before you have rented a while in a place to see if you like it there. 
If you like beaches, there are nice very *low cost *such at Palawan if avoid tourist places. (There are restrictions against foreigner owning land, but there are 25 + 25 years lease and other solutions. Foreigners can own whole buildings at leased land. Opposite to what most say, foreigners CAN kind of own land (partly) by using same exception in the law as condo unions do, through one special solution I have found. (Possible if fullfilling some demands.)

Concerning private schools, there are others knowing much better. I did know of a cousy private school, originaly started as home schooling for her own kids and a few of their friends, which did grow much by popularity, but its closed now by owner lost interest in having it when her kids became grown ups. 
A reason to I started thinking of starting own business in the Philippines (I have earlier in Sweden) was own kids dont need formal exams to get work in family business  Self studies can be done much faster than in schools, specialy if aim at own business so not useful parts can be jumped. I skiped college after one semester myself because I found them teaching to slow


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

If you will go for the stock market even IF you cant use the SIRV deposit to that, there are much better potentials in SE Asia than in West Europe/North America. I checked the Philippine stock market some years ago, and it had much better result than West Europe/North America, including the crisis 2007-2008 too, which it managed much better than the "western" countries. 
If you like dividends, you can follow what the rich Filipino families do, they live of dividends. They have made stock market much favoried compared to work income* because it gain themselves and they have all power at law making level. 

LOCK UP though with businesses earning only from the Philippine market by the Philippines have got harder hit by effects of covid by its a poor country with less reserves than "western" countries, so most people struggle more in the Philippines, so they have less money for other things than whats needed to survive. 

* And I have found two even better tax solutions in the Philippines  
1. one I believe only valid for Filipino (small) business owners (but some unclear if it can be valid for foreigners too)
2. and one some complicated for investors. (This I use myself. The tax is around half what the rich Filipinos pay. Up to the max, which is around 25 percent PROFIT per year. Above that its normal taxes. Some less good effect than that, if want investment to stay or profit reinvested inside the business though, because there are other higher taxed solutions, which are better at DELAYING paying of their higher tax.)


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

*WARNING! * If not changed since I did read the law, I forgot to tell - In the Philippines its allowed for companies to:
*/Not tell how many shares there are!!!*  So its IMPOSSIBLE to value shares in companies which do that by not insiders cant divide the company value with that amount...
/I am not sure, it was many years since I did read the law, it was back when I thought of starting a company and sell shares in it spread at many other small owners, but if I remember correct its even allowed to print more shares and offer them EXCLUSIVE to some of the owners and to unfair low price!!! If so, values of shares belonging to other owners can get deluted without they have no chance!!! (It isnt odd in other countries to offer new shares for lower price to promote get more capital to the company, BUT such are suppoused to be offered to ALL old share holders (in same proportions as they have.)


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

I find the OP's question to be suspect or at the very least extremely naive.


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## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> Hi Amy and welcome to the forum, hope you find the answers you search for here from members.
> 
> Just curious? Why pick the Philippines especially if you never visited for such a big move, might not be your cup of tea after awhile and to commit from memory a minimum of 75K US into the SIRV scheme before you have boots on the ground? (Have a holiday first). Have you done your ROI's comparing PH to UK? I keep all my investments in Australia as a much better return.
> Do you intend to work here or only invest cash to get a visa because you are all under 50 Y/O?
> ...


Thank you, Steve.

To answer your question why the Philippines if we have never been there, I'm from Vietnam and my husband is from France. We looked at many countries near Vietnam and the Philippines has the most advantages compared to other Asian countries. I’m sure you all know about these advantages. We would have gone back to live in Vietnam but my husband doesn’t speak Vietnamese so life would be difficult for him there. We visit Vietnam once a year (except during covid time) for the last 20 years and after doing research online about the Philippines we expect life in the Philippines wouldn’t be too much different from life in Vietnam.

The main reason we decided to move is that my father was admitted to the hospital in critical condition twice last year. Fortunately, we made it through. But after seeing him this summer and how weak he has become we decided it is time for us to get closer to my parents (my husband's parents are in good health and can still travel).

The second reason is that my husband always wanted to start his own business and he is now tired of his job. We both work in the financial services industry and have studied finance. We have our full-time job but outside work, we invest. As you Steve, we will keep a big part of our investments outside the Philippines for now. We currently invest in stocks and real estate in the US, UK and Vietnam. With the dividends from the Vietnamese stocks and rental income from the US and UK, we can live comfortably in the Philippines without having to work.

The third reason is that after giving my notice, my boss came back to me with an offer. He wants me to open an office in Manila and run it for him as I have been working for him for fifteen years and he trusts me. I accepted the offer and will work as a consultant in Manila. This isn’t our initial plan but it turned out well. My husband can start his own business as he wanted and with my UK income, we have more than enough to live a comfortable life in the Philippines.

As you can see my plan has become a long-term plan so renewing a tourist visa won’t work for me. I want to get a permanent visa before the government suspends the SIRV visa or changes the conditions as they did with the SRRV visa.


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## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

freebiefan said:


> There are some excellent stocks if you back the right horses. I spread my investments between UK Singapore HK and US but overp ast 5 years have been playing a bit with PSE.
> Areit an Ayala company is up 34% in past two years... DMC an outstanding company that is giving 90% of its dividend back to shareholders sometimes is currently up 97% since I invested 2.5 years and has given me over p300K in dividends. BPI has nice small but steady growth. Converge was up 150% and now down 20% in past 2 years. Some large fluctuations sometimes with weird price to book ratios. Mining stocks have generally done well past few years. Dividends arent great but can sometimes be good.
> But its not a large or major market and a few large trades can change the entire market. Lots insider trades that never get discovered as its a bit of an old boys network at times. But generally the market follows its own direction and it doesnt really matter whos the President. etc. Its a fun market that I use sometimes to " play" Would I put my serious money in it. No way...But then I do own a good condo here and thats enough of an investment for me here where thnigs can go sideways fast on occasion. Id definately suggest you decide if this is the right country for you to be in, as it can be a bit wild west at times.


Thank you freebifan.

We had US stocks in the past. My husband and I both graduated in 2008 in the US during the subprime crisis. We used all our savings from our one-year internship and invested in the stock markets. We bought Fannie Mae, Citi, Deutch bank, etc. and the return was very high. We sold all our US stocks a few years back and now only have stocks in Vietnam. Vietnamese stocks are risky but give a lot of dividends. We think the Filipino stock market doesn’t have the potential as the Vietnamese stock market but it’s not that bad to invest in. We were looking at real estate in the Philippines but the fact that we cannot buy land put us off. Besides, we always prefer investing in stocks over real estate anyway (we own properties in the US and UK just so that we diversify our risk) so SIRV visa works out well for us.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

YW Amy. 
Sounds like you have done your homework but only my thoughts would be to come on a visitor visa, see if you like it here before committing too many Pounds.
One bonus could be that if your boss wants you to open an office in Manila then I would ask him/her to get you a work visa as well as setting up the company with 60% Filipino/40% foreign investors as well as an office and infrastructure, or do you plan to work from home?

I don't know your age nor how many years until you hit 50 but it could be worth the wait availing an only 20K SRRV or 10K if you have a pension. Having an SRRV from memory gives the opportunity to get a work permit.

I wish you luck with your choices.

Cheers, Steve.


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## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

Gary D said:


> Yes definitely visit, more than once before burning any bridges. In general schooling here is very poor unless you find a very expensive international school, those who can afford it school abroad. Healthcare is spotty, public hospitals are where you go to die. There are one or two good hospitals but they are expensive and only in major cities where the cost of living is also high. A western lifestyle is more expensive here than in the west. Health insurance is available and reasonable whilst young but ramps up as you age then many companies have age limits. It's not in there interests to insure people that are likely to become sick.


Thank you Gary.

What you mentioned about the Philippines is very similar to Vietnam.
We are planning to put our children into an international school (not the most expensive one though as we don’t think it’s worth the money). I found a few schools that are not too expensive. We always have the option to put them in the French school as my kids speak French as well.
We have looked at some accommodation. As you said some of them are more expensive than in the UK 😊
For healthcare, we are thinking to go back to France if we have some serious health issues (touch wood). But we want to get the best health insurance anyway. French ex-pats can get covered oversea and in France by the French healthcare system if they pay a fee. We did that a while back when we arrived in the UK. Maybe we should get that French coverage again.


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## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> YW Amy.
> Sounds like you have done your homework but only my thoughts would be to come on a visitor visa, see if you like it here before committing too many Pounds.
> One bonus could be that if your boss wants you to open an office in Manila then I would ask him/her to get you a work visa as well as setting up the company with 60% Filipino/40% foreign investors as well as an office and infrastructure, or do you plan to work from home?
> 
> ...


When you mentioned renewal of the visitor visa I thought it was a good idea but then I'm not sure if I can apply for school for my kids if I have a tourist visa. 
Thank you for the suggestion. I will investigate if the kids can go to school with a tourist visa. If they can we can start with a tourist visa and then start the SIRV after a couple of months of living there.
I don't think my boss will register his company in the Philippines for the time being. It will be too costly and complicated. I will set up the office and hire people as consultants so my boss doesn’t have to worry about local laws, taxes etc. He has already an office in India which runs under the same structure.
I’m 38 and my husband 42.


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## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

Lunkan said:


> Are you sure SIRV allow the deposit to be used for stock market?
> Its long time since I did read that law, but I dont remember any such, although I werent looking for it by I looked for investing in OWN business.
> I doubt it because stock market dont add jobs as starting new businesses can do, specialy if starting production export businesses so dont take jobs from excisting businesses (as shops do.)
> 
> ...


Thank you Lunkan.

I have checked the latest guidance from the BOI and this is the list of what you can invest under the SIRV visa:









For now, we will just go with publicly-listed companies. There are probably other investment opportunities outside the stock market but we need to live there before we can make our decision.
Thank you for the information about businesses in the Philippines.


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## amy7_uk (2 mo ago)

Quezon Expat said:


> I find the OP's question to be suspect or at the very least extremely naive.


May I ask why you found my question suspicious or naïve?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Amy7_UK have investigated quota visas.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Good call Gary if they are needed professionals in the Philippines.

Cheers Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

amy7_uk said:


> We had US stocks in the past. My husband and I both graduated in 2008 in the US during the subprime crisis. We used all our savings from our one-year internship and invested in the stock markets. We bought Fannie Mae, Citi, Deutch bank, etc. and the return was very high. We sold all our US stocks a few years back and now only have stocks in Vietnam. Vietnamese stocks are risky but give a lot of dividends. We think the Filipino stock market doesn’t have the potential as the Vietnamese stock market but it’s not that bad to invest in. We were looking at real estate in the Philippines but the fact that we cannot buy land put us off. Besides, we always prefer investing in stocks over real estate anyway (we own properties in the US and UK just so that we diversify our risk) so SIRV visa works out well for us.


 Good you got rid of US stocks. They were overvalued allready and became crazy overvalued by covid made a lot of unexperienced start buying stocks, based only at TA !!! 

I dont know about the VietNameese stock market but VietNameese businesses have developed better in average than Philippine ones. Perhaps that make there are less bargains left in VietNam?  


amy7_uk said:


> When you mentioned renewal of the visitor visa I thought it was a good idea but then I'm not sure if I can apply for school for my kids if I have a tourist visa.
> Thank you for the suggestion. I will investigate if the kids can go to school with a tourist visa. If they can we can start with a tourist visa and then start the SIRV after a couple of months of living there.


 I suppouse no problem to get kids in school at tourist Visa. There are foreigners who have that, but the common is one parent is Filipino.

BUT not allowed to WORK at tourist Visa. 
Need a Visa which allow work, and some need work permit too.


amy7_uk said:


> I don't think my boss will register his company in the Philippines for the time being. It will be too costly and complicated. I will set up the office and hire people as consultants so my boss doesn’t have to worry about local laws, taxes etc. He has already an office in India which runs under the same structure.


 There are special rules for starting daughter company, but simpler to do as you say. 


amy7_uk said:


> I have checked the latest guidance from the BOI and this is the list of what you can invest under the SIRV visa:


  


amy7_uk said:


> For now, we will just go with publicly-listed companies. There are probably other investment opportunities outside the stock market but we need to live there before we can make our decision.


 ok. 
I understand what you mean. Thats wice. I dont live there though  but I have checked things almost 10 years before I started my first business in the Philippines. 

When checking - lock up with there are seem to be neutral "specialists" and even government employed recomending different businesses or how to "improve" businesses. 
but some of them are paid by scammers to fool people, unclear if these "specialists" are scammers themselves too or just incompetent. 
E g mango almost all sources tell very missleading, seemed 4 times better than the reality! I found the truth after some years... (There are profitable mango orchards anyway, but being 1/4 income made it drop from my favorite to chose other businesses instead 
And government department statistics seem to calculate wrong when the compare average profit by different objects have very different long startup periods, which factor they dont seem to have included in the calculations! Some have odd results told anyway.

But among much crap, there are very good possibilities too, if search enough  
E g I found one business type with many very good bargains running businesses for sale, because almost no Filipino such business owner know how to handle them!!! So they get bad results, without they understand why, and then many give up and want to sell "to cheap". Not odd very few Filipinos know how to handle such businesses though, because even the college specialiced at such dont know!!! (One of my businesses is buying such and correct the wrong handling.)


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## Guam_Haole (Aug 13, 2021)

amy7_uk said:


> Thank you, Steve.
> 
> To answer your question why the Philippines if we have never been there, I'm from Vietnam and my husband is from France. We looked at many countries near Vietnam and the Philippines has the most advantages compared to other Asian countries. I’m sure you all know about these advantages. We would have gone back to live in Vietnam but my husband doesn’t speak Vietnamese so life would be difficult for him there. We visit Vietnam once a year (except during covid time) for the last 20 years and after doing research online about the Philippines we expect life in the Philippines wouldn’t be too much different from life in Vietnam.
> 
> ...


Why wouldnt you just live in Vietnam, given you are able to have citizenship, and there is less crime? The language barrier argument doesn't hold water, as just because people in the PI 'speak English', does not mean it is like the USA or UK.


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## Guam_Haole (Aug 13, 2021)

Quezon Expat said:


> I find the OP's question to be suspect or at the very least extremely naive.


yes, naively optimistic, for sure.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Guam_Haole said:


> The language barrier argument doesn't hold water, as just because people in the PI 'speak English', does not mean it is like the USA or UK.


 But in Phils a foreigner *can *manage ok with just English, while in Thailand inland almost no one speak English, not even a Thai man, who was English teacher there, spoke English enough to even hear it was English 🤣 
(I just compared with Thailand because I dont know how it is in VietNam.)


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## bachelorsinparadise (4 mo ago)

amy7_uk said:


> Hi everyone, I am planning to move to the Philippines with my family (husband and two kids) to the Philippines in April 2023.
> 
> We were looking at the SRRV visa but it is suspended for people under 50 years old (my husband and I are both under 50). So, we will apply for the SIRV visa, which is fine as we are interested to invest in the stock market.
> 
> ...


Hi, 
Im also currently looking at this visa. In terms of investments within the stock market is it possible to purchase ETF's and mutual funds instead of individual companies? Ive looked at the wide range of industries that are eligible to be invested in, but would prefer a broad based investment in various business if possible e.g Philippines equity tracker.

If you have any more information it would be very helpful.
thank you.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bachelorsinparadise said:


> Hi,
> Im also currently looking at this visa. In terms of investments within the stock market is it possible to purchase ETF's and mutual funds instead of individual companies? Ive looked at the wide range of industries that are eligible to be invested in, but would prefer a broad based investment in various business if possible e.g Philippines equity tracker.
> 
> If you have any more information it would be very helpful.
> thank you.


 Philippine stock market is tricky by - if it isnt changed since I did read it some years ago - the companies dont need to tell how many shares they have!!! which make it impossible to value each share for an outsider...
Beside that the richest families live of dividends from their companies so IF like dividends, perhaps copy which stocks the richest families own.

Concerning funds - who to trust with that? Most such handlers get very high salaries even when they get crap results... 
Many years ago a journalist let a monkey threw darts at a stock market list and he got BETTER result than many of these high paid "specialists"... 🤣

Or invest with us  I have started two businesses, but have some more prospects, which I dont have money enough to finance myself.


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## Guam_Haole (Aug 13, 2021)

Lunkan said:


> But in Phils a foreigner *can *manage ok with just English, while in Thailand inland almost no one speak English, not even a Thai man, who was English teacher there, spoke English enough to even hear it was English 🤣
> (I just compared with Thailand because I dont know how it is in VietNam.)


You missed my point entirely, ....


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Guam_Haole said:


> You missed my point entirely, ....


 YOU missed my point entirely 
OF COURSE English isnt in Phils as in USA and UK, but as I wrote a foreigner CAN manage ok in Phils with just English. Although Filipino English can need some "dechiffering" by some pronounce the English words as the letters are pronounced in Phils - and e g Sweden and Germany too so its some less hard for us Swedes and Germans to understand what Filipinos say in English.
If you ment locals having English knowledge enough to get an intelligent conversation with, I know e g two very intelligent squatter Filipinas, and I had one e g yesterday with my Filipino business partner about which alternative to chose in our businesses, while there are Americans and Englishmen, who thats impossible with 🤣 (NOT meaning you.) 

Its some funny many Americans expect others to speak perfect English as second-third -fourth language!!! while they dont even know a second language themselves  not even Spanish, which is FIRST language still in parts of USA, bought/taken from Mexico a few generations ago... 
((I have started learning a bit Tagalog, reading real estate adds, which would become my FIFTH fluent speaking language if I ever will reach that for Tagalog too.))


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Lunkan said:


> Its some funny many Americans expect others to speak perfect English as second-third -fourth language!!!


It's not just Americans. The folks from Australia, New Zealand and other english speaking countries are guilty also. My daughter got her college and graduate education in Europe. She spent a lot of time learning languages that were taught to European students as a matter of course. The english langauge instruction in the schools in the Philippines is terrible but at least they require a second language course.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Quezon Expat said:


> It's not just Americans. The folks from Australia, New Zealand and other english speaking countries are guilty also.


 Yes, but my experience is Americans are worst  in average, even complaining at spelling and gramar! Although often its when they get crushed in discusions and get out of arguments 🤣 


Quezon Expat said:


> My daughter got her college and graduate education in Europe. She spent a lot of time learning languages that were taught to European students as a matter of course.


 In Sweden its/was at least three languages in ALL courses. (Swedsh, English. Plus chose German or French in Junior High.)


Quezon Expat said:


> The english langauge instruction in the schools in the Philippines is terrible but at least they require a second language course.


 Well. NOT terrible for being a third world country. Much better than average American's second language 
And for the majority* of Filipinos, English is their THIRD language by Tagalog is the second for all, who dont have it as first.

By Bisaya is similar big as Tagalog as first language and there are a lot of other languages (around 70) in Phils, so I guess English is the third language for around 2/3 of Filipinos.


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## Quezon Expat (3 mo ago)

Your American bashing is not surprising and might be deserved but which America are you referring to, North, Central or South?


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Quezon Expat said:


> Your American bashing is not surprising and might be deserved but which America are you referring to, North, Central or South?


 Its obvious for all Europeans  but seem own news are cencored by so few know OWN country terrible actions...Its a country, which claim being world best at everything, but is far from, concerning some things even crap as e g corruption level. 

What triggered me originaly is the claim "Fight for democrasy"!!! What a BS. To get more power e g even supporting DICTATORS...


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## Guam_Haole (Aug 13, 2021)

Lunkan said:


> Yes, but my experience is Americans are worst  in average, even complaining at spelling and gramar! Although often its when they get crushed in discusions and get out of arguments 🤣
> In Sweden its/was at least three languages in ALL courses. (Swedsh, English. Plus chose German or French in Junior High.)
> Well. NOT terrible for being a third world country. Much better than average American's second language
> And for the majority* of Filipinos, English is their THIRD language by Tagalog is the second for all, who dont have it as first.
> ...


Americans are the worst at what? Not everyone with citizenship is a native speaker of English 

And I must say, I have known many Swedes in my life, both online and offline, and you have, hands down, the worst grasp of English out of any Swede I have come across. And Swedes usually have an abnormally strong grasp of English.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

The topic (turning into something else) is still:

Advice for SIRV visa (moving from the UK to the Philippines)

And nothing else.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Agree Mark, the OP hasn't responded for some weeks so either doing more homework or some what busy with the realities/festive season and sensible replies posted here. 

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Agree Mark, the OP hasn't responded for some weeks so either doing more homework or some what busy with the realities/festive season and sensible replies posted here.


 So I can answer without disturbing OP 


Guam_Haole said:


> Americans are the worst at what? Not everyone with citizenship is a native speaker of English


At complaing at English grammer and spelling.
And at claiming being best in the world at everything inspite of USA is crap at several things compared to other "western" countries e g corruption and social security. Many American women are pissed at the rules concerning maturnity leave. If not changed even Phils have better than USA 


Guam_Haole said:


> And I must say, I have known many Swedes in my life, both online and offline, and you have, hands down, the worst grasp of English out of any Swede I have come across. And Swedes usually have an abnormally strong grasp of English.


 Yes at least some years ago Swedes had second best knowledge in English in the world after the Dutch among all countries not having English as first language - and back in school I had the BEST written tests 🤣 (At weekly written smaller tests I had only one error in whole year, plus 4 in a long essay.)

*You dont get it, *inspite of I have told it many times.
According to an university made research, the group in (Swedish) companies* who write MOST spelling and gramer errors in first language too are us TOP bosses because we dont waste time at checking such (except at publications as e g websites and product descriptions, but checking such we normaly leave to some employee) because we bother about whats IMPORTANT. Least error writing group is middle level bosses. Many of them have got stucked at that level because they dont understand that... 🤣
((I got a middle boss position (=Planning boss) allready direct after high school without even applying, I suppouse by the top bosses had noticed during I worked extra there during high school, I got things done much faster than the others. (At least 1.5 times faster. As most almost 5 times faster.) My cousin became Marketing boss in same company when he was 23. Just before I became 25 I became top boss in a competition business to that one = my own  because I had noticed I could do a nish it both better and cheaper than them  Parallell to that one, some years later I got a consultant assignment in a national similar company to solve the crisis they had in a region. Allready 6 months later HQ said it had become their best region so they directed hesitating presumtive national customers to test there...))
And after above, I have worked with both Americans, Irishmen and Englishmen without they had problem to understand me inspite of my accent is much worse than my writing...🤣 

* And Swedish companies are among the most effective in average after Japan and Germany - except when foreigners buy Swedish companies and screw up by trying to implementing stone age Pyramid organisation type still 30 years after Sweden invented modern "Flat" !!! 🤣 (I invented and implemented parts of "Flat" allready 1978. Even skiped having any middle bosses in a 70 - 115 employees company, handled all of them myself and they spoke direct with me instead of through middle bosses.)


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