# Marsa Alam Beach Resort Alarm Bells RINGING



## duped

I posted this in the 'WARNING_ZAFARANA BEACH RESORT', but I think developments regarding MABR deserve a new thread.

IPI has apparently gone into liquidation. 

Regarding Marsa Alam Beach Resort I received an email from Global Investment Concepts, a legal entity, asking if I'm interested in seeing all official paperwork with a view to joining in a collective legal action against El Sery, the project's owner. Meanwhile, El Sery has asked investors to be patient and wait a few weeks for more news on a new major investor. Has anyone here had dealings with Global Investment Concepts?


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## Dark_Ninja

*Legal letters*

I have not received any of these letters although I have seen copies of them posted elsewhere. Although I have "invested" in an apartment in Pure well Being resort formerly known as MABR. I know of a few people who have received them. They appear to me to want to exploit those who are in a vulnerable position already. The worst kind of vultures!


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## duped

Dark_Ninja said:


> I know of a few people who have received them.


Are you saying you know of people that have received a completed property in MABR?


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## scubadoo1

duped said:


> Are you saying you know of people that have received a completed property in MABR?


Hi Duped,

I recieved email contact from GIC same as you.


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## duped

scubadoo1 said:


> Hi Duped,
> 
> I recieved email contact from GIC same as you.


They kept pestering me to talk to them on the phone or Skype but I refused and told them I preferred e-mail where I could consider my questions and answers; they stopped contacting me.


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## Dark_Ninja

Dark_Ninja said:


> I have not received any of these letters although I have seen copies of them posted elsewhere. Although I have "invested" in an apartment in Pure well Being resort formerly known as MABR. I know of a few people who have received them. They appear to me to want to exploit those who are in a vulnerable position already. The worst kind of vultures!



Nobody has received an apartment yet as they are only half built. They have received the letters. There seems to have been a lot of them sent over the last few weeks and it appears to me to be either a scam or an opportunist trying to sell property.


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## duped

Dark_Ninja said:


> Nobody has received an apartment yet as they are only half built.


Exactly! It's just that you said that you knew of a few people that had received one.


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## tomnellyuk

Hi,
I received an email today from this GIC legal company! saying the inveter had not signed up as the agreed 31 March. They wanted me to join in on the legal fight but wanted £1800.
Has anybody heard the same or heard from El sery about this?


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## scubadoo1

tomnellyuk said:


> Hi,
> I received an email today from this GIC legal company! saying the inveter had not signed up as the agreed 31 March. They wanted me to join in on the legal fight but wanted £1800.
> Has anybody heard the same or heard from El sery about this?


A few people have been contacted by GIC legal but all are staying well clear of the from what I understand. As far as El Sery goes I think a couple people have had a response from the aftersales people.


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## SJH11

Is anyone going to the "GIC FIRST MABR CLIENT MEETING UK" at Stansted Airport later this month?


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## scubadoo1

SJH11 said:


> Is anyone going to the "GIC FIRST MABR CLIENT MEETING UK" at Stansted Airport later this month?


I have had an email from El Sery today saying they wish to call me and to provide them with my availability to arrange the call.

As far as the GIC meeting I am thinking of going to find out what they are upto so I can let people know on our facebook group


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## rozalba

hello all,
I am an investor in MABR, a Lithuaninan from Ireland. Are there many of us who've been approached by GIC and don't trust them? is there any activity/private forum where we could discuss things?


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## SJH11

Hi Rozalba, have you had an email from GIC?


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## duped

scubadoo1 said:


> I have had an email from El Sery today saying they wish to call me and to provide them with my availability to arrange the call.
> 
> As far as the GIC meeting I am thinking of going to find out what they are upto so I can let people know


Could you please delete all references to ******** from your post


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## SJH11

Duped, the thing is the group needs as many MABR investors as possible. If MABR investors don't find out about the group, they can't join it. After all, this is how you and I found out about it


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## MaidenScotland

SJH11 said:


> Duped, the thing is the group needs as many MABR investors as possible. If MABR investors don't find out about the group, they can't join it. After all, this is how you and I found out about it





Yes but this forum is to help people on here, not to direct them somewhere else,


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## SJH11

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes but this forum is to help people on here, not to direct them somewhere else,


When we get info, we do indeed post it on here.


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## rozalba

duped said:


> I posted this in the 'WARNING_ZAFARANA BEACH RESORT', but I think developments regarding MABR deserve a new thread.
> 
> IPI has apparently gone into liquidation.
> 
> Regarding Marsa Alam Beach Resort I received an email from Global Investment Concepts, a legal entity, asking if I'm interested in seeing all official paperwork with a view to joining in a collective legal action against El Sery, the project's owner. Meanwhile, El Sery has asked investors to be patient and wait a few weeks for more news on a new major investor. Has anyone here had dealings with Global Investment Concepts?


Hello Duped,
thanks for the thread. There's four of us in Ireland who've invested in MABR so far who've been approached by GIC. Some of us are coming to the meeting in Stansted. Will any of you be there? it would be good to meet and discuss matters.


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## duped

rozalba said:


> Hello Duped,
> thanks for the thread. There's four of us in Ireland who've invested in MABR so far who've been approached by GIC. Some of us are coming to the meeting in Stansted. Will any of you be there? it would be good to meet and discuss matters.


Hi welcome to the forums. By all means go to the meeting but be very wary of GIC. I am in contact with a group of MABR investors and we are having nothing to do with them. Eric Maan CEO of El Sery has told me they are mavericks using misinformation and blatant lies to poach MABR investors and fleece them for €1800 each.

GIC stopped contacting me when I refused to give them my phone number and told them that I wanted our dialogue to be in writing. Please let us know what was said at the meeting.


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## rozalba

duped said:


> Hi welcome to the forums. By all means go to the meeting but be very wary of GIC. I am in contact with a group of MABR investors and we are having nothing to do with them. Eric Maan CEO of El Sery has told me they are mavericks using misinformation and blatant lies to poach MABR investors and fleece them for €1800 each.
> 
> GIC stopped contacting me when I refused to give them my phone number and told them that I wanted our dialogue to be in writing. Please let us know what was said at the meeting.


thanks for the reply, Duped, I am sceptical of GIC. as I said,there's 4 of us at the moment and one of us will go so we'll keep in touch. In your oppinion, is there any chance El Sery will finish the project ever?


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## SJH11

El Sery seem to be hopeful that the project will be finished although the lead time has lengthened. Have you, or any of the others you are in contact with, had any contact with El Sery?


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## rozalba

SJH11 said:


> Hi Rozalba, have you had an email from GIC?


Hi, SJH11, yes, I've been discussing things with them, but the more answers they give, the less I trust them. They are asking for 1800e to start the legal action against El Sery. The fact is that they are asking for original contracts as well. Has anybody of you been asked the same? How many of you are in the group? Can we join you?


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## SJH11

There is no point in handing over any money to GIC. The only lawyers who can act in this matter would have to be Egyptian. Have you had any contact with El Sery?


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## SJH11

rozalba said:


> The fact is that they are asking for original contracts as well.


Really?!!! I haven't heard this before. Sounds very strange - I wonder why they would want originals? No way, would I let them even see my contract.


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## rozalba

SJH11 said:


> Really?!!! I haven't heard this before. Sounds very strange - I wonder why they would want originals? No way, would I let them even see my contract.


It's to attach to the case when it goes to the court so they say. the fact is I am losing the hope to ever get the money back. is there anyone else in distress who is actutally taking any action? It's killing me. SOS give me some advice.


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## rozalba

SJH11 said:


> El Sery seem to be hopeful that the project will be finished although the lead time has lengthened. Have you, or any of the others you are in contact with, had any contact with El Sery?


No, the only correspondence that we get is the newsletters which are promissing promissing and nothing else. I trust El sery no more than GIC. Do you keep i touch with them?


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## SJH11

rozalba said:


> It's to attach to the case when it goes to the court so they say. the fact is I am losing the hope to ever get the money back. is there anyone else in distress who is actutally taking any action? It's killing me. SOS give me some advice.


No, I don't know anyone who is taking action. I think we are of the opinion that only an Egyptian lawyer would be able to succeed. At the moment, the people I am in contact with are prepared to wait a while to see what El Sery can come up with. And if anyone agrees to give GIC their original contracts, they must be insane!!!


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## Ethicranger

tomnellyuk said:


> Hi,
> I received an email today from this GIC legal company! saying the inveter had not signed up as the agreed 31 March. They wanted me to join in on the legal fight but wanted £1800.
> Has anybody heard the same or heard from El sery about this?


What's the value of your property? My friend got offer with 1800Eur, but he is in Ireland.


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## rozalba

SJH11 said:


> No, I don't know anyone who is taking action. I think we are of the opinion that only an Egyptian lawyer would be able to succeed. At the moment, the people I am in contact with are prepared to wait a while to see what El Sery can come up with. And if anyone agrees to give GIC their original contracts, they must be insane!!!


I'm of the same opinion. Thanks.


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## Ethicranger

Have anybody of you had a chat with MABR Escrow admins or there is no point?


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## rozalba

Ethicranger said:


> Have anybody of you had a chat with MABR Escrow admins or there is no point?


I only have the confirmation from el sery that some funds have been released (such as furniture pack...)


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## tomnellyuk

SJH11 said:


> Is anyone going to the "GIC FIRST MABR CLIENT MEETING UK" at Stansted Airport later this month?


Hi, I’ve not had any contact with GIC about the meeting, they asked for money from me for them to represent them, I ignored them and they haven’t been back in contact.
When I bought my apartment i paid the extra for the bank guarantee for the 5 years rent, did anybody else do the same and has anybody tried to cash it in yet?


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## Dark_Ninja

i have not been invited so will not be attending!


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## SJH11

tomnellyuk said:


> Hi, I’ve not had any contact with GIC about the meeting, they asked for money from me for them to represent them, I ignored them and they haven’t been back in contact.
> When I bought my apartment i paid the extra for the bank guarantee for the 5 years rent, did anybody else do the same and has anybody tried to cash it in yet?


No I never paid the extra. Surely you are entitled to that back in view of the circumstances. Which bank is it with, the Dutch one that holds the escrows?


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## siamoricat

tomnellyuk said:


> Hi, I’ve not had any contact with GIC about the meeting, they asked for money from me for them to represent them, I ignored them and they haven’t been back in contact.
> When I bought my apartment i paid the extra for the bank guarantee for the 5 years rent, did anybody else do the same and has anybody tried to cash it in yet?


Hi,

I paid for the bank guarantee too but haven't done anything about it. Maybe we should look into it.


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## SJH11

How much extra did you have to pay? (in percentage terms to your apartment?)


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## siamoricat

SJH11 said:


> How much extra did you have to pay? (in percentage terms to your apartment?)



It was only about £800


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## SJH11

still, that's a lot of money when you think how many £800s they got from all those who opted for the guaranteed rental. If you ask for it back, it would be interesting to see what they say.


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## Quick Ben

Wow this is very depressing reading i feel very sorry for anyone who invested.

I don't know anything about GIC or MABR but i did read a book called the called "The Big Con" by David Maurer. It was about 10 years ago but from what I remember if MABR was a con ( and it sounds likely from what you say) then GIC is probably what they term " the blow off" and has the same people behind it.

Basically its serves two purposes 

it identifies people who will throw more money at it ( so they can con you again) 

it distracts you from mounting your own investigation/legal challenge and just taps your money /will power until you give up

As I said, I don't know anything about GIC/MABR so I could be completely wrong but I recommend you read the book, its about 8 pounds on Amazon

Ben


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## SJH11

Quick Ben said:


> Wow this is very depressing reading i feel very sorry for anyone who invested.
> 
> I don't know anything about GIC or MABR but i did read a book called the called "The Big Con" by David Maurer. It was about 10 years ago but from what I remember if MABR was a con ( and it sounds likely from what you say) then GIC is probably what they term " the blow off" and has the same people behind it.
> 
> Basically its serves two purposes
> 
> it identifies people who will throw more money at it ( so they can con you again)
> 
> it distracts you from mounting your own investigation/legal challenge and just taps your money /will power until you give up
> 
> As I said, I don't know anything about GIC/MABR so I could be completely wrong but I recommend you read the book, its about 8 pounds on Amazon
> 
> Ben


...


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## SJH11

That's very interesting Ben! When I received an email from GIC, I automatically thought I'm on some suckers' list! I don't think MABR actually _ began _as a scam but, with what has transpired, now I don't know what to think. It appears GIC have all the email addresses of MABR investors and so it ties in with what you say. I'll check out the book, thanks.


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## SJH11

Sorry about the multiple posts, can't seem to delete messages


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## pompeycarl

Dear MABR (PURE WOW Wellbeing Resort) Investors,

I purchased a property in MABR back in July 2006 from IPI BV, using a UK agent and Anthony Seddon as my solicitors. Unfortunately, there was no time limit given for completion in the sales contract – only compensation for late completion. However, due to the civil war in Egypt, the Force Majeure has put an end to the compensation, but I am still due about a year’s worth.

On numerous occasions I have asked IPI BV to take the property back and return my money. In each case they stated that they were not accepting ‘buy-backs’ at this time.

Note: IPI Group BV is in bankruptcy – IPI International Property Investors MABR BV is not. 

I have instructed a Dutch solicitor to look into getting my money back out of the Escrow Account. In the past month they have sent out letters to IPI International Property Investors MABR BV, El Sery in Egypt and the Escrow Agent. Only El Sery have replied saying it is nothing to do with them as the contract is between me and IPI International Property Investors MABR BV. We are still waiting for a response from IPI International Property Investors MABR BV, but I am not holding my breath. 

I have had no dealing with this other company GIC.


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## SJH11

Hello, Thanks for sharing. Just out of interest, have you had any feedback from Anthony Seddon since you bought through them?


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## pompeycarl

Very little from Anthony Seddon.

After I approched them regarding getting the money back they did offer to look into legal proceedings, through a Dutch lawyer. However, there were looking to charge about 2k just for their services - let along the fees from the dutch side. This is why I approached a Dutch lawyer myself.


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## SJH11

pompeycarl said:


> Very little from Anthony Seddon.
> 
> After I approched them regarding getting the money back they did offer to look into legal proceedings, through a Dutch lawyer. However, there were looking to charge about 2k just for their services - let along the fees from the dutch side. This is why I approached a Dutch lawyer myself.


Have the Dutch lawyers mentioning suing the Dutch bank who hold the escrows?


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## pompeycarl

It's nothing to do with the bank. Apparently my money is still there in an Escrow account.

The appointment of a new Escrow Agent without our prior knowledge or approval could well be illegal though, especially if the Escrow agent has moved the money to another Escrow account.

My solicitor has requested IPI MABR BV return our money, with compnsation, or else we shall begin legal proceedings.


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## SJH11

I thought our money was still with the Dutch bank? I also thought that they might be liable as they were negligent with handing the money out at the various stages.


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## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hello,

The only thing IPI is doing is waiting, waiting and waiting, I have enough of this, I have no apartment, I dont know where is my money....

I was also contacted by GIC, I found them very informed and very efficient in communicating with us. I am still considering using them, but they seem quite professional.

what's is your opinion



duped said:


> I posted this in the 'WARNING_ZAFARANA BEACH RESORT', but I think developments regarding MABR deserve a new thread.
> 
> IPI has apparently gone into liquidation.
> 
> Regarding Marsa Alam Beach Resort I received an email from Global Investment Concepts, a legal entity, asking if I'm interested in seeing all official paperwork with a view to joining in a collective legal action against El Sery, the project's owner. Meanwhile, El Sery has asked investors to be patient and wait a few weeks for more news on a new major investor. Has anyone here had dealings with Global Investment Concepts?


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## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hello tomnellyuk,

I am new on this forum and I am happy to find other persons to share my toughts and concerns.

I was also contacted by GIC, I am still considering using their services. So far they always replied clearly and quickly to my questions and it looks like a good company. 

In any case, what I am sure is that I will stop taking the s.... from El Sery and IPI. I want my money and I want it NOW.

What do you suggest to do ??




tomnellyuk said:


> Hi,
> I received an email today from this GIC legal company! saying the inveter had not signed up as the agreed 31 March. They wanted me to join in on the legal fight but wanted £1800.
> Has anybody heard the same or heard from El sery about this?


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## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hello Rozalba,

I am also now on this forum. Like you I was contacted by GIC, I am not sure what to do, but from the moment they are the only ones who gave us other opinion and who seemed to know what they are talking about. 

Could not make it to the Meeting, have you any feedback.

What is sure is that I have enough to wait. I dont believe anymore El Sery/ Ipi... and think that we need to take them to court.

what's is your opinion

Thank you




rozalba said:


> It's to attach to the case when it goes to the court so they say. the fact is I am losing the hope to ever get the money back. is there anyone else in distress who is actutally taking any action? It's killing me. SOS give me some advice.


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## Whitedesert

pompeycarl said:


> Dear MABR (PURE WOW Wellbeing Resort) Investors,
> 
> I purchased a property in MABR back in July 2006 from IPI BV, using a UK agent and Anthony Seddon as my solicitors. Unfortunately, there was no time limit given for completion in the sales contract – only compensation for late completion. However, due to the civil war in Egypt, the Force Majeure has put an end to the compensation, but I am still due about a year’s worth.
> 
> On numerous occasions I have asked IPI BV to take the property back and return my money. In each case they stated that they were not accepting ‘buy-backs’ at this time.
> 
> Note: IPI Group BV is in bankruptcy – IPI International Property Investors MABR BV is not.
> 
> I have instructed a Dutch solicitor to look into getting my money back out of the Escrow Account. In the past month they have sent out letters to IPI International Property Investors MABR BV, El Sery in Egypt and the Escrow Agent. Only El Sery have replied saying it is nothing to do with them as the contract is between me and IPI International Property Investors MABR BV. We are still waiting for a response from IPI International Property Investors MABR BV, but I am not holding my breath.
> 
> I have had no dealing with this other company GIC.


 No civil war took place in Egypt so a "force Majeure" application to the civil protests in Cairo over a period of 18 days is simply not true. Libya had a full-blown civil war, and Syria certainly has one now, Egypt never had one.


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## Ginty's

rozalba said:


> I only have the confirmation from el sery that some funds have been released (such as furniture pack...)


I'm an investor in MABR story and I'm looking also to regain my money back from these looters there. I'm looking now for legal assistance and consultations. New letter from el sery gives new ideas of probabely more complex money laundering schemas.

What are ways to solve it?


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## Vienna55

*Marsa Alam Beach Resort*

I too have been contacted by GIC Legal. After checking the website, it states that they also deal in property developement. I did not attend the meeting in London on Sunday, after deciding that they seem like a bunch of people who are trying to jump on the bandwagon, and extract money out of hard working people who have already been taken for a ride! 

Has anyone been able to get any information about where the money is regarding the Escrow account? If some of you live in Egypt, is it easy for you to visit the offices?


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## Vienna55

MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27 said:


> Hello Rozalba,
> 
> I am also now on this forum. Like you I was contacted by GIC, I am not sure what to do, but from the moment they are the only ones who gave us other opinion and who seemed to know what they are talking about.
> 
> Could not make it to the Meeting, have you any feedback.
> 
> What is sure is that I have enough to wait. I dont believe anymore El Sery/ Ipi... and think that we need to take them to court.
> 
> what's is your opinion
> 
> Thank you


Hello Malcolm, I have only just joined the forum, and I am also totally confused about what is happening out at Marsa Alam. I have visited the site, and at the time it did appear to be progressing, (2yrs ago), however due to illness I have been unable to get out to it. What I want to know is why is this site still being marketed for sale all over the internet? I do not know what to you like Rozabella, I am on my own, and to be honest, feel very vulnerable. I bought this as a holiday retreat, and to give me another income when I retire. I am so unhappy about it all.


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## SJH11

Most of the other investors I am in contact with do not see any need to deal with GIC. They are based in France, are property developers as well as claiming to be legal experts. They are just Middle-men who can quite easily be cut out.


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## Dark_Ninja

We are in a strange position here! The only position that will see us get our money back is a settling of the political situation! Then a resumption of building and finally a delivery of the appartments! We can feed our money to solicitors and harass for a law suit! The escrow agent may then deem it a wise use of cash to fight the legal claims using our own cash! This will lead to a constant depletion of funds and no resort! Alternatively we can grow some balls and give it a couple of months! El Sery need to act quickly because the tide is turning against them! A couple of months is all they have now before everyone will lose faith! Building needs to resume now!


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## Cliff123

Cliff123


Dark_Ninja said:


> We are in a strange position here! The only position that will see us get our money back is a settling of the political situation! Then a resumption of building and finally a delivery of the appartments! We can feed our money to solicitors and harass for a law suit! The escrow agent may then deem it a wise use of cash to fight the legal claims using our own cash! This will lead to a constant depletion of funds and no resort! Alternatively we can grow some balls and give it a couple of months! El Sery need to act quickly because the tide is turning against them! A couple of months is all they have now before everyone will lose faith! Building needs to resume now!


I totally agree with you, I'm in a group of 24 other MABR investors and we all seem to be of the same opinion.


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## Cliff123

Vienna55 said:


> Hello Malcolm, I have only just joined the forum, and I am also totally confused about what is happening out at Marsa Alam. I have visited the site, and at the time it did appear to be progressing, (2yrs ago), however due to illness I have been unable to get out to it. What I want to know is why is this site still being marketed for sale all over the internet? I do not know what to you like Rozabella, I am on my own, and to be honest, feel very vulnerable. I bought this as a holiday retreat, and to give me another income when I retire. I am so unhappy about it all.


Hi Vienna
I too bought at MABR to have somewhere to holiday and an income for retirement, I also felt alone and vulnerable but I'm now able to regularly talk to 24 other investors and find this helps. None of the group I talk to are having anything to do with GIC and I think we all feel that if we are to get anything back from our investment's the resort needs to be finished , as taking legal action at this time would be throwing more money away. 
Cliff123


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## Vienna55

Cliff123 said:


> Cliff123
> 
> 
> I totally agree with you, I'm in a group of 24 other MABR investors and we all seem to be of the same opinion.


Hi Cliff, 

I was so pleased that you replied. I am based in Newport in Shropshire, and as per my earlier post, feeling very isolated in all of this. 

I agree that we should sit it out and wait. However I do feel that El Sery need to be more forthcoming with the news, even if there is really nothing to report. The long waits between letters drives me to distraction, and I expect that it does for all of the Marsa Alam investors. 

I am in the process of contacting Anthony Seddon, the solicitors who dealt with the contract for my apartment. The contract states that the holder of the Escrow account is unable to release money from the account without the permission of the solicitor, therefore it seems the best place to start.


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## Cliff123

Vienna55 said:


> Hi Cliff,
> 
> I was so pleased that you replied. I am based in Newport in Shropshire, and as per my earlier post, feeling very isolated in all of this.
> 
> I agree that we should sit it out and wait. However I do feel that El Sery need to be more forthcoming with the news, even if there is really nothing to report. The long waits between letters drives me to distraction, and I expect that it does for all of the Marsa Alam investors.
> 
> I am in the process of contacting Anthony Seddon, the solicitors who dealt with the contract for my apartment. The contract states that the holder of the Escrow account is unable to release money from the account without the permission of the solicitor, therefore it seems the best place to start.


Hi Vienna
I'm also from Shropshire near Bridgnorth, out of all the MABR group I talk to you are the nearest. I have received a bit more information but have been asked not to put it online so that GIC cannot see it although it is nothing they could use against El Sery. Please reply to this post so that we can keep in touch.
Cliff


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## Vienna55

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Vienna
> I'm also from Shropshire near Bridgnorth, out of all the MABR group I talk to you are the nearest. I have received a bit more information but have been asked not to put it online so that GIC cannot see it although it is nothing they could use against El Sery. Please reply to this post so that we can keep in touch.
> Cliff


Phew, what a relief, a local in the same situation. I would be happy for you to contact me on my home number, we can then maybe join forces, and whatever we can submit to the rest of the group that will helps us all would be good. 
However, I will understand if you feel this is not appropriate. 

I am awaiting a reply from Amelia Garland who is based at Anthony Seddon (Solicitors) I think she has been inundated with calls! 

My personal view is that GIC are just out to take us all for yet another ride. At least El Sery do reply to my e-mails, and I do feel if they were not wanting to see this through that they would just disappear. I am as yet still not able to get my head around the connection with IPI. 

I have visited the site and when I went out in 2010, it looked well tended, and building was well on its way.


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## Eco-Mariner

Hang in there everyone. 

GIC-Legal is one and the same Italian selling agent IPS who sold to that marketplace. It's obvious they would need to be responsible for their 122 customers, but the issue is if they try to pull out of their contracts it affects all 540 investors, including ours in the UK.

And most want the project finished not half their money back (after admin costs) so let's see El Sery's next strategy since by now you will have all received updated e-mails explaining the causes of these problems in Egypt.


Eco-Mariner


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## Cliff123

Vienna55 said:


> Phew, what a relief, a local in the same situation. I would be happy for you to contact me on my home number, we can then maybe join forces, and whatever we can submit to the rest of the group that will helps us all would be good.
> However, I will understand if you feel this is not appropriate.
> 
> I am awaiting a reply from Amelia Garland who is based at Anthony Seddon (Solicitors) I think she has been inundated with calls!
> 
> My personal view is that GIC are just out to take us all for yet another ride. At least El Sery do reply to my e-mails, and I do feel if they were not wanting to see this through that they would just disappear. I am as yet still not able to get my head around the connection with IPI.
> 
> I have visited the site and when I went out in 2010, it looked well tended, and building was well on its way.


Hi Vienna
I have also visited the site twice once in November 2008 when they had only just started and again in November 2010 when it looked that construction was progressing even if slowly. If you reply again I will then be able to private message you with my email address.
Cliff


----------



## Vienna55

Hi Cliff

Your e-mail would be good. 

Thank you.


----------



## Cliff123

Vienna55 said:


> Hi Cliff
> 
> Your e-mail would be good.
> 
> Thank you.


Hi Vienna
I have just tried to send you a private message but were unable to, perhaps it is 6 posts you have to make before you can send or receive private messages 
Cliff


----------



## jojo

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Vienna
> I have just tried to send you a private message but were unable to, perhaps it is 6 posts you have to make before you can send or receive private messages
> Cliff


The PM facility doesn kick in immediately. She may need to do a couple more posts and then log off and log on again

Jo xxx


----------



## Cliff123

jojo said:


> The PM facility doesn kick in immediately. She may need to do a couple more posts and then log off and log on again
> 
> Jo xxx


Thank's Jo P M now working


----------



## Cliff123

Eco-Mariner said:


> Hang in there everyone.
> 
> GIC-Legal is one and the same Italian selling agent IPS who sold to that marketplace. It's obvious they would need to be responsible for their 122 customers, but the issue is if they try to pull out of their contracts it affects all 540 investors, including ours in the UK.
> 
> And most want the project finished not half their money back (after admin costs) so let's see El Sery's next strategy since by now you will have all received updated e-mails explaining the causes of these problems in Egypt.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


Hi Eco Mariner
I'm a member of a fairly large fast growing group of MABR investors and I think we would all agree with you that we want our apartments finished and not just part of our money back. Dark Ninja posted on here recently and I think it sums up the feelings of most the investors I Know , I post it below for any one that missed it.
We are in a strange position here! The only position that will see us get our money back is a settling of the political situation! Then a resumption of building and finally a delivery of the apartments! We can feed our money to solicitors and harass for a law suit! The escrow agent may then deem it a wise use of cash to fight the legal claims using our own cash! This will lead to a constant depletion of funds and no resort! Alternatively we can grow some balls and give it a couple of months! El Sery need to act quickly because the tide is turning against them! A couple of months is all they have now before everyone will lose faith! Building needs to resume now!


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I take it all you MABR investors received and fully understood Eric Maan's El Sery statement this week. If you need clarification I am happy to answer most queries within reason as I am a agent who promotes it with more knowledge of these circumstances in Egypt than anyone in the business.

His explanations are very clear. My conversations with IPS/GIC-Legal and the CEO Eric Maan have put many things into perspective, now I wish the public realise this is not a good time to bail out. Short of Egypt becoming another Iran, the prospects for a real estate revival looks good.

I know that the Escrow can suffice a run of refunds or even court issues as they were always capitalized enough for a crisis, but that's not going to get the project moving for the majority, is it now? 
Refinancing and replacing a partnership was always the best option given the economic position Europe and Egypt is in right now, so wait and see the outcome.


Eco-Mariner


----------



## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hello Vienna,

I did not attend the meeting, but some friend who also invested in MABR, was there and received a lot of useful information. Apparently two other property agents were there and both advised clients to initiate legal action in Egypt, because our money is there.

They will send shortly the information of this meeting. I am still wondering what to do, but I believe I might take my chance with them, since no one else is able to assist us.





Vienna55 said:


> I too have been contacted by GIC Legal. After checking the website, it states that they also deal in property developement. I did not attend the meeting in London on Sunday, after deciding that they seem like a bunch of people who are trying to jump on the bandwagon, and extract money out of hard working people who have already been taken for a ride!
> 
> Has anyone been able to get any information about where the money is regarding the Escrow account? If some of you live in Egypt, is it easy for you to visit the offices?


----------



## Vienna55

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Eco Mariner
> I'm a member of a fairly large fast growing group of MABR investors and I think we would all agree with you that we want our apartments finished and not just part of our money back. Dark Ninja posted on here recently and I think it sums up the feelings of most the investors I Know , I post it below for any one that missed it.
> We are in a strange position here! The only position that will see us get our money back is a settling of the political situation! Then a resumption of building and finally a delivery of the apartments! We can feed our money to solicitors and harass for a law suit! The escrow agent may then deem it a wise use of cash to fight the legal claims using our own cash! This will lead to a constant depletion of funds and no resort! Alternatively we can grow some balls and give it a couple of months! El Sery need to act quickly because the tide is turning against them! A couple of months is all they have now before everyone will lose faith! Building needs to resume now!


Hi Eco Mariner,
I am in full agreement with you. We are being hounded by enough 'Wolves' after our money, and taking advantage of an already strange situation, without using our Escrow cash to fight a legal battle, that, will probably take years, and result in us losing our money, and even ending up in debt!


----------



## Vienna55

MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27 said:


> Hello Vienna,
> 
> I did not attend the meeting, but some friend who also invested in MABR, was there and received a lot of useful information. Apparently two other property agents were there and both advised clients to initiate legal action in Egypt, because our money is there.
> 
> They will send shortly the information of this meeting. I am still wondering what to do, but I believe I might take my chance with them, since no one else is able to assist us.


Hello Malcolm, 
Please be careful, don't forget these are very clever sales people, and are, I feel trying to frighten the investors into transferring to their properties, which I am sure cost a lot more in the long run, plus what so called guarantees can they give. I know that you must do what is best for you though.


----------



## SJH11

Vienna55 said:


> Hello Malcolm,
> Please be careful, don't forget these are very clever sales people, and are, I feel trying to frighten the investors into transferring to their properties, which I am sure cost a lot more in the long run, plus what so called guarantees can they give. I know that you must do what is best for you though.


Totally agree that people must be careful. Can't see what this has got to do with property companies. They are just jumping on the bandwagon.


----------



## Dawnied

Hi All

I attended the meeting at Stansted and may well have met up with some of you by other names. Definitely met Ethic Ranger. There are quite a few of us in touch by email - trying to decide who to trust but going to see if we can get the fees reduced by GIC or at least payable in stages.


----------



## Dawnied

*Mabr*

Hi
I was interested in your note that IPI Group BV are bankrupt but not IPI International Property Investors MABR BV who my agreement is with. If this is the case does that mean we have more of a chance of getting our money back?? How are you getting on with the Escrow agent?







pompeycarl said:


> Dear MABR (PURE WOW Wellbeing Resort) Investors,
> 
> I purchased a property in MABR back in July 2006 from IPI BV, using a UK agent and Anthony Seddon as my solicitors. Unfortunately, there was no time limit given for completion in the sales contract – only compensation for late completion. However, due to the civil war in Egypt, the Force Majeure has put an end to the compensation, but I am still due about a year’s worth.
> 
> On numerous occasions I have asked IPI BV to take the property back and return my money. In each case they stated that they were not accepting ‘buy-backs’ at this time.
> 
> Note: IPI Group BV is in bankruptcy – IPI International Property Investors MABR BV is not.
> 
> I have instructed a Dutch solicitor to look into getting my money back out of the Escrow Account. In the past month they have sent out letters to IPI International Property Investors MABR BV, El Sery in Egypt and the Escrow Agent. Only El Sery have replied saying it is nothing to do with them as the contract is between me and IPI International Property Investors MABR BV. We are still waiting for a response from IPI International Property Investors MABR BV, but I am not holding my breath.
> 
> I have had no dealing with this other company GIC.


----------



## redsea2012

As promised few days before we went to check the developer's office in Cairo but was turned back from our way after receiving a call from their office saying that there is no one to answer our questions on the place. We were promised to get answer later on. Next day we were copied on email sent to after sale office saying that there is a client asking for the updates on MABR - but no answer till now. Our lawyer in Hurghada decided to send his assistant to Marsa alam to make a police report about the delay in construction. He said its the first step for anything else anyway. We also will make signature validation for the flats in MABR bought by Polish investors. None of them is keen to wait any longer if left without any clear statement from the developer side. We still hope to get any kind of answer from the after sale office, but I guess its far too much to expect now.


----------



## John&Celia

I would be interested in some genuine/expert second opinions about Egyptian law and processes.
a) do the Egyptian development authorities have the power to take away a potential development after 3-4 years? and do they typically exercise them
b) what is the time period under Egyptian law for bringing a suit of breach of contract

it would be great to hear from an Egyptian lawyer...


----------



## John&Celia

*State of emergency lifted*

Has El-Sery lifted the "force majeure" now that the Egyptian state of emergency has been lifted. see the BBC article of 1st June 2012 _(sorry can't post link)_

Given it has run for 31 years - it would seem a clear argument that things are becoming normalised?_ (and they need to get a move on)_


----------



## SJH11

redsea2012 said:


> As promised few days before we went to check the developer's office in Cairo but was turned back from our way after receiving a call from their office saying that there is no one to answer our questions on the place. We were promised to get answer later on. Next day we were copied on email sent to after sale office saying that there is a client asking for the updates on MABR - but no answer till now. Our lawyer in Hurghada decided to send his assistant to Marsa alam to make a police report about the delay in construction. He said its the first step for anything else anyway. We also will make signature validation for the flats in MABR bought by Polish investors. None of them is keen to wait any longer if left without any clear statement from the developer side. We still hope to get any kind of answer from the after sale office, but I guess its far too much to expect now.


All I can say is be careful if you involve the Egyptian authorities. They would love to take over the site (steal it) then charge us investors more money to get the project finished. I believe the best thing to do is wait - as frustrating as it is.


----------



## SJH11

John&Celia said:


> Has El-Sery lifted the "force majeure" now that the Egyptian state of emergency has been lifted. see the BBC article of 1st June 2012 _(sorry can't post link)_
> 
> Given it has run for 31 years - it would seem a clear argument that things are becoming normalised?_ (and they need to get a move on)_


Hi John and Celia,
I can't see how anything can become normal with the elections still hanging over the country. Unfortunately I think we have to give it at least until after the elections are sorted - and any ensuing civil unrest from opposing parties.


----------



## SJH11

John&Celia said:


> I would be interested in some genuine/expert second opinions about Egyptian law and processes.
> a) do the Egyptian development authorities have the power to take away a potential development after 3-4 years? and do they typically exercise them
> b) what is the time period under Egyptian law for bringing a suit of breach of contract
> 
> it would be great to hear from an Egyptian lawyer...


Would definitely like more answers about Egyptian law. Those are questions that we need answers to. Eric Maan of El Sery says the Government cannot take back the site as too much of it has been built on. No idea if what he says is correct. From what he says, he is trying all he can to get the site finished. The fact that he is still in contact with us has to be good news.

Any law suit will take years and years. And if we win, I'm sure El Sery will just go into liquidation. We will have wasted all our money on lawyers.


----------



## SJH11

Does anybody know anything about the Egyptian lawyer that GIC are employing? What are his credentials?


----------



## MaidenScotland

All I can say is Egyptian law is flexible depending on who you are..


----------



## MaidenScotland

John&Celia said:


> Has El-Sery lifted the "force majeure" now that the Egyptian state of emergency has been lifted. see the BBC article of 1st June 2012 _(sorry can't post link)_
> 
> Given it has run for 31 years - it would seem a clear argument that things are becoming normalised?_ (and they need to get a move on)_



The state of emergency has officially been lifted... in all honesty it means nothing take it from someone who has spent the last 3 days in various police station...


----------



## SJH11

MaidenScotland said:


> All I can say is Egyptian law is flexible depending on who you are..


That's what I thought.  Another reason why we can only sit back and wait.


----------



## John&Celia

Heard a lot of rumours, rather light on verifiable facts. The last email from El Sery raised very many more questions than it answered.

has anybody talked to an Egyptian Lawyer without a vested interest?


----------



## SJH11

The problem is finding an Egyptian lawyer without a vested interest. Have you read the pages on this site regarding Zafarana? There is some more information on there about MABR.


----------



## realinvestor

*Seddons??*



Dawnied said:


> Hi
> I was interested in your note that IPI Group BV are bankrupt but not IPI International Property Investors MABR BV who my agreement is with. If this is the case does that mean we have more of a chance of getting our money back?? How are you getting on with the Escrow agent?



Hi Dawn,

I see you used Seddons as the Uk solicitor. Have you contacted them as they should have been responsible for monitoring the escrow account? I used them in mny Zafarana purchase and they seem to be struggling to get any answers from IPI/El Sery regarding what is left in escrow. I didn't used them for MABR but as they allegedly did extensive due diligence for both projects, in my opinion they are also guilty of some sort of negligence as initially they seemed to be in bed with IPI and probably earned tens of thousands in legal fees....for what? as most of us would ask. But because ZBR was so problematic, they should have protected their MABR investors earlier on so it seems Seddons should be made accountable as to what has happened to escrow funds.


----------



## 50gary

*50 gary*

hi i am new on the forum i invested in marsa alam beach resort my solicitor is anthony seddons i too have wondered about their lack of help any news or advice would be great


----------



## Dark_Ninja

50gary said:


> hi i am new on the forum i invested in marsa alam beach resort my solicitor is anthony seddons i too have wondered about their lack of help any news or advice would be great


Garry there is some help out there you are not alone. Ask specific questions in separate posts and we will reply if we know the answers. After a while you will be able to PM and then we can give you some further details of how to find further help!


----------



## 50gary

*mabr*



Dark_Ninja said:


> Garry there is some help out there you are not alone. Ask specific questions in separate posts and we will reply if we know the answers. After a while you will be able to PM and then we can give you some further details of how to find further help!


hi dark ninja well everything really as el sery just dont respond to my emails and with no information i get very frustrated i sort of excepted my 2 bed suite was going to be late what with all the finantial probs in the world cant really except political situation in egypt was causing delays i just dont think enough have been sold do you really believe we will ever take delivery im hoping still that we will i would love to hear other peoples thoughts and news becaurse i havnt heard much i did get the monthly update in april with the promise that el sery would let us know weekley like i believed that] i was contacted by a italian law firm which just made me worry more i did not contact them they annoyed me really anotrher sleepless night.i would of thought scaring investors to take action to recover monies would only make el sery position worse but iaccept you only go on for so long but how long i hope investers respond as together we all have more weight than being alone to fight this thanks for your time gary


----------



## SJH11

Gary, there are people who are in touch with El Sery. One of our group had a phone conversation with Eric Maan of El Sery recently. There are problems but we don't believe they are insurmountable (yet). So most of us think the best thing we can do at the moment is just to wait a little longer.


----------



## SJH11

You are definitely not on your own in thinking this. We are a group of over 30. Some went to the recent GIC Legal meeting but I believe there are lots of questions about the service they are offering. Most of our group want to wait a bit longer for El Sery to deliver.


----------



## Dark_Ninja

50gary said:


> hi nice to to know theres over 30 of us it just makes me feel a lot better thanks a lot gary


What Block are you in. Do you know details of how much has been taken from your Escrow? The more you post the quicker a Pm can be sent!


----------



## 50gary

Dark_Ninja said:


> What Block are you in. Do you know details of how much has been taken from your Escrow? The more you post the quicker a Pm can be sent!


hi its a 2 bed in d block i didnt know i could find out how much has been taken from escrow account i seem to be a bit behind on things i have paid nearly half of the cost inc furniture cost


----------



## realinvestor

50gary said:


> hi i am new on the forum i invested in marsa alam beach resort my solicitor is anthony seddons i too have wondered about their lack of help any news or advice would be great


Hi gary,

I too used Seddons for Zafarana. I think you should write to them immediately to find out all the details of your escrow. It is their legal obligation as per the contract to update you on escrow releases and other developments. If he does not respond you have every right to report the matter to the solicitors body. At least we have the use of Uk law against a UK professional who arguably has been in bed with IPI for too long and reaped enormous fees in two projects that now have huge overhanging questions and a lot of facts/evidence regarding misrepresentation and fraud.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Firstly, this is the Marsa Alam Beach Resort thread not Zafarana, whose company mandate was separate and who acted totally independent to the company who purchased the Marsa Alam land and implement the MABR marketing programme.

Agents who dealt with Zafarana and clients who used Seddons must check their sales contracts before considering using UK law against these professionals. If they are not in duel Arabic/English you may have a case, however the real test is in Egypt courts where only the duel language contracts can be used in evidence of malpractice or in misleading investors.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Please do not discuss Zafarana property dealings, question etc on this thread...

Only comments relevant to this thread will be allowed,


----------



## Ethicranger

MaidenScotland, relax pls, it's all about same company and their prehistory! 

Hate such moderation


----------



## MaidenScotland

Ethicranger said:


> MaidenScotland, relax pls, it's all about same company and their prehistory!
> 
> Hate such moderation




Please do not tell me to relax... I have my reasons for this request.. comply please.

You have broken a rule on commenting on moderation, I have not infracted but will next time,


----------



## Eco-Mariner

These are two different projects with legal issues that impartial forums would prefer not to become implicated.

Please keep to each topic as requested.



Eco-Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Hi Ecomariner,

You are right that issues regarding both Zafarana and MABR should be keep separate. However, to the extent that there are intertwined issues as is the case in both it is only fair that this forum should allow them to addressed as long as postings are kept honest and fair, which may be difficult to monitor understandably.

I am in investor in both Zafarana and MABR and believe that fellow investors in both are entitled to the information people like me have. for instance let us not forget that the escrow manager and the CEO for both Zafarana and MABR have been the same person, namely Eric Maan. There is no doubt as to the legitimacy and proof that investors like me have regarding a complete mismanagement of the escrow accounts of both. Even my Uk solicitors has confirmed many of these issues. When we go to the doctor they will always ask us about fancily history of any illness etc so that they are best able to treat us. So where there have been major findings of mismanagement of a developer then I believe all investors have the right to know this as other wise touch forums will have no meaning and will be subject to manipulation and bias. In both Zafarana and MABR there is no question as to whether the escrow accounts have been mismanaged or not as many of us now have a lot of proof that there has been mismanagement


----------



## MaidenScotland

realinvestor said:


> Hi Ecomariner,
> 
> You are right that issues regarding both Zafarana and MABR should be keep separate. However, to the extent that there are intertwined issues as is the case in both it is only fair that this forum should allow them to addressed as long as postings are kept honest and fair, which may be difficult to monitor understandably.
> 
> I am in investor in both Zafarana and MABR and believe that fellow investors in both are entitled to the information people like me have. for instance let us not forget that the escrow manager and the CEO for both Zafarana and MABR have been the same person, namely Eric Maan. There is no doubt as to the legitimacy and proof that investors like me have regarding a complete mismanagement of the escrow accounts of both. Even my Uk solicitors has confirmed many of these issues. When we go to the doctor they will always ask us about fancily history of any illness etc so that they are best able to treat us. So where there have been major findings of mismanagement of a developer then I believe all investors have the right to know this as other wise touch forums will have no meaning and will be subject to manipulation and bias. In both Zafarana and MABR there is no question as to whether the escrow accounts have been mismanaged or not as many of us now have a lot of proof that there has been mismanagement





Regardless... I have asked for the resort in question to be posted under the heading of the resort..

Any post that does not comply will be deleted,


----------



## SunshineBarley

MaidenScotland said:


> Regardless... I have asked for the resort in question to be posted under the heading of the resort..
> 
> Any post that does not comply will be deleted,


Whilst I havent invested in any type of property over here for many of the above reasons, I wish you all the best of luck in getting your homes. And will read with interest on the outcome


----------



## realinvestor

MaidenScotland said:


> Regardless... I have asked for the resort in question to be posted under the heading of the resort..
> 
> Any post that does not comply will be deleted,


Hi everyone,

I have just come back from Egypt and have found out the following:

- El Sery netherlands is now in liquidation after announcing bankruptcy
- There are no more employees in MABR as the resort is closed with perhaps only a security guard
- El Sery cairo office is merely an admin office as most staff are also no longer working. I tried hard to arrange to meeting somebody there but had no luck

The bottom line is that IPI was the main and only shareholder in El Sery at the start. It now seems that there could have been a significant change in share ownership in which Jurgen Oddens who was the main shareholder could have relinquished a big chunk to others, and in turn these holdings are seen key cash vehicle to be redeemed by these other shareholders if they are successful in the sale of MABR to an outside investor. It is no wonder that they are so keen to sell to an outside investor so that they can pocket the cash and then leave all us original investors in a huge legal limbo and a complex and costly legal nightmare with any new investor for years to come. Let us not forget at all that whatever was put in El Sery/MABR construction was from escrow funds and we should not let these shareholders of El Sery to get away with our cash. In many ways we should view this such that we investors actually funded MABR and as there was no debt from elsewhere we should be the main beneficiaries of whatever is left of MABR. The current shareholders have no assets in the company except for all the liabilities to us. I have also spoken with an anonymous TDA official who now believes that the El Sery is jeopardising its position by giving Egypt a bad name by insisting on the "force majeure" where clearly despite all the difficulties in Egypt, things continue to progress and many developments do get finished as well. You only need to go there and see good progress all across despite all these huge problems.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Hi realinvestor.

Your post is nearly perfect in content, however I must correct some points.
Jurgen Oddens and others were relieved of their position by Eric Maan for bringing these problems and IPI into disrepute, on both developments. Their own share capital was not returned only their status were affected leaving the Escrow funds for construction. If any legal cost were needed we are sure those parties would be the recipient of those costs.

Any new shareholdings are indeed welcome. Those International companies interested are well aware of SCAF's possible interferences and with the lack of Egyptian Bank Guarantees will not get involved quite yet. We see how SCAF manipulates every single thing it can to keep control so El Sery-MABR will not allow them to interfere, take their cut, or stop further negotiations.

I'm told all necessary licences are up to date and paid for. That "force majeure" was not the cause of delays but in fact the need to stabilize the situation, as SCAF would indeed like there to be a "run on the bank" to claw MABR back by default.

Finally, there are no differences between TDA and SCAF. They are one and the same in members and mindset. 


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I'm heavily involved with Red Sea projects including MABR and let me tell everyone, nothing is being built on any scale that would look like normality. Only the cheaper-end crash-pads are selling and those giant companies like Orascom who themselves are SCAF orientated can survive the pressure put on them by the "system" they operate within.

Which begs the question_ "how do they manage to get fuel, materials and licence updates if not in SCAF's pockets?"_


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Hi realinvestor.
> 
> Your post is nearly perfect in content, however I must correct some points.
> Jurgen Oddens and others were relieved of their position by Eric Maan for bringing these problems and IPI into disrepute, on both developments. Their own share capital was not returned only their status were affected leaving the Escrow funds for construction. If any legal cost were needed we are sure those parties would be the recipient of those costs.
> 
> Any new shareholdings are indeed welcome. Those International companies interested are well aware of SCAF's possible interferences and with the lack of Egyptian Bank Guarantees will not get involved quite yet. We see how SCAF manipulates every single thing it can to keep control so El Sery-MABR will not allow them to interfere, take their cut, or stop further negotiations.
> 
> I'm told all necessary licences are up to date and paid for. That "force majeure" was not the cause of delays but in fact the need to stabilize the situation, as SCAF would indeed like there to be a "run on the bank" to claw MABR back by default.
> 
> Finally, there are no differences between TDA and SCAF. They are one and the same in members and mindset.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Hi Eco Mariner

You seem to have some inside knowledge of the problems between IPI's Jurgen and Eric Mann. But from my own experience and knowledge of all the details available there is little difference between the two as both have badly led the investors down. In particular, Eric Mann was the escrow manager and custodian of investors funds and personally responsible under Dutch law for these funds. He specifically told fellow investors that KPMG audited the escrow accounts. This was a big lie and misrepresentation as we have found out from KPMG that they do not even know the escrow company let alone audit it. The only way Eric mann can get any hint of credibility back is to send investors either fully audited accounts or bank statements showing what is left in the escrow for each block. This is what is specifically stipulated in our contracts and he has not even sent us any details whatsoever and hence the complete lack of trust he has now lost. I know that my beach-front unit has not even starred the foundation stage and therefore 90% of my funds should be in escrow. Until eric Mann can furnish me evidence that that is what is left in my escrow how can he get our trust.


----------



## bartas

We are tired of deceiving us with a soon breakthrough. We are tired of promises, which are designed exclusively to sleep and delay of our response. We should all understand that as investors we should have the right in this situation to decide the fate of the project carried out with our money. Not transparent actions and decisions El Sery - on escrow, search for a mysterious investor, the interruption of construction work motivated by the political situation in Egypt - all of these actions are contrary to our interests as investors.
It's high time for action. We are determined to join a group hiring an Egyptian lawyer who will make El Sery to continue the construction or will recover our money. Are there any other investors with the same attitude, willing to act?


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Bartas.

You are right, investors and promoters are extremely tired of being deceived and we would all like the problems sorted out.

However, we didn't get involved with Egypt to buy into Ponzi schemes (where fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors) but we should have known the risks in this new developing country.

Buying abroad is always a risk. Look at Dubai, Spain, Cyprus and even Florida where hurricanes flatten properties each year. We all thought the new Egyptian market cheap enough to enter and profit, yet the developers there are no different. Many (not all) saw the rush of money from sales as a easy way to expand while "creaming" profits for luxury lifestyles.
Customers saw the credit boom as an easy way to profit from buying and letting, hoping their loans were met.

How wrong we all were? 
The meltdown has even reached China with towns half built with no customers for office-blocks and apartments. While there are growing numbers of owners and businesses wanting finished units, cash and credit is no longer available to complete them.

Crying after you took those risks is a human reaction. Blaming others and paying again through the courts is not always the best answer. What is, must be having the confidence in what you started and by that I must add showing confidence in the project and its founder in a country whose politics and economy has been in turmoil now for two years. 

There is no quick-fix with Egypt.... Buyers stopped investing and will wait till Egypt has revived, so why can't those who see little for the risk they took so far, be a bit more patient with this project?


Eco-Mariner


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## bartas

I think it was time to end up with lying oneself that everything will be fine, it's time to take up action. Currently, as investors whose assets in majority (I suppose so) financed construction we do not have any control over MABR. As the first step, to give El Sery chance to rebuild it’s reputation, we should force the El Sery to our representative (solicitor) had formal access to all information relating to the escrow account, and any plans for El Sery of the new investor as well as the resumption of construction MABR. Otherwise, we will not hesitate to take legal action in the Egyptian court.


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## Eco-Mariner

bartas said:


> Currently, as investors whose assets in majority who financed construction we do not have any control over MABR.
> As the first step, to give El Sery chance to rebuild it’s reputation, we should force the El Sery to our representative (solicitor) had formal access to all information relating to the escrow account, and any plans for El Sery of the new investor as well as the resumption of construction MABR.



I believe this will happen after the Egyptian Authorities get their own act together.

Not even litigators have confidence in their own legal system right now, so why would billionaire finance companies think it wise to invest or resume construction in Egypt?

The FCO and Tour operators are again warning of possible riots for travellers to be aware there may be chaos and you think MABR will be seen as a priority for the courts?


Eco-Mariner


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## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Hi realinvestor.
> 
> Your post is nearly perfect in content, however I must correct some points.
> Jurgen Oddens and others were relieved of their position by Eric Maan for bringing these problems and IPI into disrepute, on both developments. Their own share capital was not returned only their status were affected leaving the Escrow funds for construction. If any legal cost were needed we are sure those parties would be the recipient of those costs.
> 
> Any new shareholdings are indeed welcome. Those International companies interested are well aware of SCAF's possible interferences and with the lack of Egyptian Bank Guarantees will not get involved quite yet. We see how SCAF manipulates every single thing it can to keep control so El Sery-MABR will not allow them to interfere, take their cut, or stop further negotiations.
> 
> I'm told all necessary licences are up to date and paid for. That "force majeure" was not the cause of delays but in fact the need to stabilize the situation, as SCAF would indeed like there to be a "run on the bank" to claw MABR back by default.
> 
> Finally, there are no differences between TDA and SCAF. They are one and the same in members and mindset.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Hi Eco Mariner

You seem to have a good rapport with Eric mann and you claim that he is in full control of al the funds etc.... perhaps you can enlighten us as to what Eric Mann thinks is the status of the escrow funds. He has resigned as manager of the escrow. IPI group and El sery in Netherlands have declared bankruptcy. So who is actually in charge of the escrow funds? Let us not forget if we are correct in assuming that of the each investor paid eur 750 in escrow management fees, the past manager received almost 500,000 euros in fees....for what? as many of us would ask, where there has been no accountability and transparency. The real question is... who now controls the escrow funds, which should in principle and legally according to our contracts should have a lot of cash. isn't that in a legal limbo and a grey area?


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## Eco-Mariner

Hi realinvestor.

In the real world, investors like yourselves could exercise your rights and invoke the articles of your contracts and collectively ask for accountability. In Egypt, transparency is not the norm.

Even a new Muslim Brotherhood administration will not be able to open the military books of its treasury in order to create a workable budget, the legislature designed to keep it for themselves. Normality in Egypt is not a word they know, however grey areas are their tools. In the Netherlands you could have leverage, however there is a protocol and if organised and approached correctly instead of demanding, you may find answers. 


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Hi realinvestor.
> 
> In the real world, investors like yourselves could exercise your rights and invoke the articles of your contracts and collectively ask for accountability. In Egypt, transparency is not the norm.
> 
> Even a new Muslim Brotherhood administration will not be able to open the military books of its treasury in order to create a workable budget, the legislature designed to keep it for themselves. Normality in Egypt is not a word they know, however grey areas are their tools. In the Netherlands you could have leverage, however there is a protocol and if organised and approached correctly instead of demanding, you may find answers.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Your answer is very vague. The problems in Egypt have nothing to do with the management of the escrow in Netherlands so the revolution in Egypt cannot be used as an excuse if investors are trying to get the information that is required to be given to us under our contracts. It seems the escrow is a headless chicken as there is no manager. However, under Dutch law the escrow needs managers/directors and as the past escrow manager, Eric Mann should make every attempt that he has handed over the management reins to a new manager because if El Sery is keen to complete MABR, they will need the new manager to release the funds tied in the escrow. So perhaps you are able to guide us as to what protocol can be organised and approached correctly so we can all work together.


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## Eco-Mariner

It is not for me to steer investors into litigation. Rather consultation with those in the Netherlands having experience in Escrow and contractual obligations. There must be regulations and precedents in this country, go research. If there is a mechanism in the Netherlands use it.

Egypt does not allow such use of escrow accounts. They can't access them or tax them either so bar their use. They do have an escrow process of Bank Guarantees for large scale material or money transfer such as for shipping, haulage and freight. What I believe El Sery use is a corporate account for transferring money to the source of construction avoiding third-party "fingers in the pie." You can see the logic behind that. However, there are no laws allowing access to business accounts in Egypt; another loophole SCAF plugged.


Eco-Mariner


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## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> It is not for me to steer investors into litigation. Rather consultation with those in the Netherlands having experience in Escrow and contractual obligations. There must be regulations and precedents in this country, go research. If there is a mechanism in the Netherlands use it.
> 
> Egypt does not allow such use of escrow accounts. They can't access them or tax them either so bar their use. They do have an escrow process of Bank Guarantees for large scale material or money transfer such as for shipping, haulage and freight. What I believe El Sery use is a corporate account for transferring money to the source of construction avoiding third-party "fingers in the pie." You can see the logic behind that. However, there are no laws allowing access to business accounts in Egypt; another loophole SCAF plugged.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


I was not requesting litgation help from you. But from your comments one wonders whose side you are taking. Certainly not it seems the investors but El Sery's side. On one hand Eric mann wants cooperation not to take legal action but on the other he is not willing to cooperate by disclosing the escrow details of which he was fully responsible. Surely you cannot have your cake, eat it to and also sell it!!!!! All the investors are asking is what is CONTRACTUALLY stipulated anyway. His actions are what is forcing investors this dilemma in that he is indirectly asking them to seek legal action! Surely Eric Mann is aware of all the legal issues regarding management of escrow and the Dutch law consequences and unless he is hiding some thing really serious I see no reason why he cannot hand control of the escrow management to us the rightful owners of the funds in the first place. 

What you are actually implying is interesting and an admission of the obvious, that is the sum transfer of funds out of the escrow is greater than that stipulated buy our contracts ( depending on the stage of construction). If that is indeed the case and you are trying to justify - that the transfer out of escrow to El sery corporate A/C- to protect investors monies has actually done the opposite. The escrow was meant precisely for protection and if properly managed there SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO RISK of other third parties accessing it. To the extent the funds are now in Egypt and in El Sery's accounts, this unjustified transfer of funds have actually increased the risks of us investors. I would strongly argue that the funds would have been more protected in the original escrow account under Dutch law and not under El sery's name and under Egyptian law.


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## Eco-Mariner

Good points raised. 
Firstly I suggested not to go for expensive litigation but for arbitration and an explanation of the protection of an escrow account. Mr. Maan has answers if approached in the right manner, but that's for him to explain at the right time. We all think Egypt's unrest and the events to follow had the main influence and part to play in every construction project delay and confrontation. 

Realinvestor, you and MABR are not the only game in town under such a predicament.

You have your second part correct. Construction and the processes leading up to MABR's present position has clearly taken the funds through transfers from the Netherlands. You imply there is a surplus. Did you think IPI and El Sery had sufficient funds of their own solely to build it without client contributions? The initial capital and that of future share capital would only support the escrow (as a bank guarantee) not complete the build from start to finish in the absence of investors. Who builds empty shells these days, waiting for buyers?

The protection would be in your contracts as owners surely, and if you use the letter of those legal articles you are entitled to refunds accordingly, albeit with admin costs. Alternatively owners could wait and see the outcome. I'm not on El Sery's side, just a realist.


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Good points raised.
> Firstly I suggested not to go for expensive litigation but for arbitration and an explanation of the protection of an escrow account. Mr. Maan has answers if approached in the right manner, but that's for him to explain at the right time. We all think Egypt's unrest and the events to follow had the main influence and part to play in every construction project delay and confrontation.
> 
> Realinvestor, you and MABR are not the only game in town under such a predicament.
> 
> You have your second part correct. Construction and the processes leading up to MABR's present position has clearly taken the funds through transfers from the Netherlands. You imply there is a surplus. Did you think IPI and El Sery had sufficient funds of their own solely to build it without client contributions? The initial capital and that of future share capital would only support the escrow (as a bank guarantee) not complete the build from start to finish in the absence of investors. Who builds empty shells these days, waiting for buyers?
> 
> The protection would be in your contracts as owners surely, and if you use the letter of those legal articles you are entitled to refunds accordingly, albeit with admin costs. Alternatively owners could wait and see the outcome. I'm not on El Sery's side, just a realist.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Hi Eco Mariner,

What you actually raise as to what has happened is very interesting and confirmation then that the the release of the escrow funds to El Sery was AGAINST the principle laid out in our contracts as to what was specifically detailed and specified. That means that all the marketing and brochures as well as the due diligence was misleading then. and it is no wonder as to why investors completely mistrust IPI/escrow manager as they have been and the same. The more one looks into the while episode after for frank admissions it sounds like IPI have completely misled the investors and Eric Mann was part of this episode. It is not enough to lecture us investors as to how IPI was supposed to have completed the resort without our monies. Yes we funded the project and the funds were supposed to have been released as per original contracts. Simply put what Eric Mann has once is a rampant abuse of the Dutch escrow system and all this is confirmation as to why he resigned as manager. We do not a need a lecture as to how our funds were used in our best interests. What a stupid and incompetent ( unless it is fraud!) mistake to make for any businessman to release funds for furniture 2/3 years ahead of any completion dates. No doubt when historian unravel this whole episode all these issues will resurface and hopefully people also held accountable


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## Eco-Mariner

I will accept faults were made, much to my consternation in promoting MABR. I told them so at the time, however the Dutch company has been instrumental in these failings and those who allowed the faults to escalate are no longer in those positions.

What I cannot agree with is your summary of the principle you accepted in signing your contracts. IPI may have had the same board of directors, but changes have been made to sort out these issues. Mr. Maan needs to be open, accessible and honest I agree, but cutting off that lifeline by legal confrontation will not serve anyone wisely. I do understand the frustrations; I'm as committed as anyone to see MABR succeed, so are Egyptians in their quest for democracy, but it doesn't happen overnight.


Eco-Mariner


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## Dark_Ninja

Eco-Mariner said:


> I will accept faults were made, much to my consternation in promoting MABR. I told them so at the time, however the Dutch company has been instrumental in these failings and those who allowed the faults to escalate are no longer in those positions.
> 
> What I cannot agree with is your summary of the principle you accepted in signing your contracts. IPI may have had the same board of directors, but changes have been made to sort out these issues. Mr. Maan needs to be open, accessible and honest I agree, but cutting off that lifeline by legal confrontation will not serve anyone wisely. I do understand the frustrations; I'm as committed as anyone to see MABR succeed, so are Egyptians in their quest for democracy, but it doesn't happen overnight.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


Are you an invester as well as a seller! All people here approach the postings with an angle! I happen to agree with you but it would be useful to know if your cash is staked in this!


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## Eco-Mariner

Not in a MABR property, but I lost in the cost of promoting it. I do however own in another Red Sea resort and know very well the problems and risks when buying in developing countries. 

I saw this project as a model of European construction. Maybe it was started at the wrong time in Egypt's evolution, however IPI's earlier Zafarana project near Ain Suhkna was a sign of what El Sery must not be repeating. I needed to know what the common denominator was in all of Egypt's buy-into resort failings.

The answer is that the Egyptian Tourism Development Authority looked at residential tourism investments as a "cash-cow" and the suckers were us foreigners for promoting for them and for parting with money without guarantees.


Eco-Mariner


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## SJH11

Eco-Mariner said:


> Not in a MABR property, but I lost in the cost of promoting it. I do however own in another Red Sea resort and know very well the problems and risks when buying in developing countries.
> 
> I saw this project as a model of European construction. Maybe it was started at the wrong time in Egypt's evolution, however IPI's earlier Zafarana project near Ain Suhkna was a sign of what El Sery must not be repeating. I needed to know what the common denominator was in all of Egypt's buy-into resort failings.
> 
> The answer is that the Egyptian Tourism Development Authority looked at residential tourism investments as a "cash-cow" and the suckers were us foreigners for promoting for them and for parting with money without guarantees.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner



Do you think the TDA realise they have messed everything up? Are they changing the way they operate?


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## Eco-Mariner

Hardly... All they ever wanted are sales and the proceeds from them. Like any organisation it will have funds from the Ministry of Tourism for promotion which is syphoned off to those whose faces fit the system that the old regime and SCAF still operate.

I think back to a conversation where the TDA admitted they were jealous of the International Tour Operators which took all the profits from selling holidays to Egyptian hotel resorts which International Developers built, because they control the holidaymaker and his money at the point of sale.

Relate that to residential developments and you see how they see how they control an investor at the point of sale. Each service demands payments "up-front".

IPI - El Sery tried to change this by introducing Escrow Accounts which both SCAF and the officials of the TDA hated as they cannot control cash-flow. So what would they do?

Tried sabotaging these projects of course. Hence you see the skeletons of those gone by.
And who are the losers? Investors of course.
Do they care?
Of course not. History proves it.


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

Hi Eco Mariner

I am astonished you are making such a blanket-negative view of the TDA or Egyptian authorities. Like you I am an experienced Egyptian investor and have had detailed knowledge of both the law and culture. All cases are unique and there have been violations from both individual Egyptian contractors and ALSO INTERNATIONAL companies like IPI. In many cases, it has been marketing companies trying to promote glossy brochures and then taking a 50% cut and profit upfront and with ought the business risk taken on by them and instead being shouldered by local Egyptian companies. As investor in both IPI projects and having very detailed knowledge of both the similarities and differences in both, I certainly put IPI in this category. All the glossy marketing brochures highlighting dodgy due diligence and independent use of escrow funds etc was used to suck in investors. In the Ain Soukhna project they did not even own the land and their contracts were never signed in Egypt. They took a significant amount of profit upfront and left all the business and financial risk to the Egyptian company. When historians and public prosecutors look at all the facts such as the abuse of the Dutch escrow system, false marketing and then the profits being channelled to fund a lavish lifestyle for IPI shareholders such as private charter jets, first-class flight, a private box in a Dutch football stadium and so on....it will become clear that you cannot blame just the Egyptian side of the coin.


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## Eco-Mariner

It becomes clear that realinvestor does not know the difference between "buy-in" practical partnerships and Main Marketing Agencies.... Ain Sukhna was the latter in which IPI learnt the hard way.


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

Eco Mariner
you seem to be quite naive in underestimating the intelligence of end investors like me and many common-sense IPI malpractice discoveries many of us have made over the past 3 years. Of course I know the difference in the two different scenarios. At least you are admitting that IPI got it wrong in Ain Soukhna and in huge desperation tried to blame everything on their Egyptian partner. But In MABR, there is no Egyptian company to blame as El sery was and is still owned 100% by IPI. So how can you blame the Egyptian authorities or TDA? So, is it really an Egyptian problem when the bulk of MABR's representation in glossy marketing, making false promises and escrow mis-management and potential fraud actually happened in Netherlands? Our hard-earned monies that most of us saved for life in putting all of it up front ( we acted like a bank to IPI) has now been thrown from the smoke-pit in netherlands into the fire pit in Egypt as it would have been safer and more protected in a Dutch escrow rather than El Sery In Egypt


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## Eco-Mariner

I agree in principle with what you state. But you do not want to chastise the Authorities for the mayhem they allowed in bringing our industry into disrepute.

The main issue is Egypt's accountability for Residential Tourism. Then once their books are on the table you will see foreign companies obliging by declaring their own accounts.


Eco-Mariner


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## realinvestor

Eco mariner

You seem to be contradicting yourself. All the comments made by myself and others in a similar capacity are not chastising the TDA. You are the one who brought the SCAF and TDA issues into the MABR discussion forum. When we all look at the facts in MABR it is clear that this is a scam and misrepresentation/mismanagement by IPI and the escrow manager, Eric Mann mainly done in Netherlands and not in Egypt. I actually am talking the view that many Egyptian companies are OK and so is the TDA in many circumstances. For MABR investors we all need to focus on the facts and specific issues that have been uncovered and there is little to point negatively at the TDA in this case.


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## Eco-Mariner

Wrong mate. You should be chastising the Authorities not those investing into Egypt. There was always the brick-walls we hit and could never clear up in Egypt which allow projects to fail.

Wake up man. 
If you're as intelligent as you state, try looking at this from the other side as a developer and not just as a buyer. When you see the hurdles you would admit doing anything by the book in Egypt is nigh on impossible.

Hence the risk you took.

It's good banter though so long as this thread doesn't get abusive.


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner,

I do not need to wake up as I have been awake for too long and assessing the mess left by dodgy developers like IPI, companies that you seem to be supporting. We should focus on the facts and not try to find excuses. Throwing the mud at the Egyptian authorities, especially in the case of MABR, is totally wrong. The problems were more localised to MABR and its developers IPI and we have enough evidence of this. If you think it was the authorities like the TDA why didn't the IPI newsletters not say anything in detail about all the specific problems face by IPI in its dealings with TDA. In trying to associate yourself with IPI, and especially as you are not an investor, you are damaging your credibility because all we want to do, as MABR investors is face the facts and move forward. When both of the IPI's projects and escrows have been madly and fraudulently mismanaged, the developer has virtually no credibility left and just cannot pass the buck into the long grass (just like the European politicians dealing with the Eurozone crisis), where in Egypt there is no long grass to kick into! Again I reiterate that El Sery should honourably own up to its own mistakes and actions as there were no other Egyptian counter parties really involved ( so you can blame them) in this specific case.


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## Eco-Mariner

What is clear to the majority of MABR investors is that they prefer a finished product. Those speculators who saw it as good investments, signed, even though they saw flaws and now create panic to draw attention away from their own poor judgements, are hypocrites. Go value your wins from previous purchases and admit Egypt was not your forte'

An astute investor would have stayed away. Now those that made the errors can retrieve their funds, minus admin costs and leave the arena, so please leave the real property user/investors to their own conclusions. I'm just trying to explain the obvious.


Eco-Mariner.


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## 50gary

*thanks*



Eco-Mariner said:


> What is clear to the majority of MABR investors is that they prefer a finished product. Those speculators who saw it as good investments, signed, even though they saw flaws and now create panic to draw attention away from their own poor judgements, are hypocrites. Go value your wins from previous purchases and admit Egypt was not your forte'
> 
> An astute investor would have stayed away. Now those that made the errors can retrieve their funds, minus admin costs and leave the arena, so please leave the real property user/investors to their own conclusions. I'm just trying to explain the obvious.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


thanks alot for that lecture eco


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## realinvestor

50gary said:


> thanks alot for that lecture eco


ecomariner

Those of us who put our hard earned cash DID NOT make errors or poor judgements or are speculators. we were completely misled by false advertising, misrepresentations and actual fraud etc.. What you are actually implying is that we should have read into all this brochures, marketing etc and in 2007 should have made a decision then that IPI was lying and misleading us and that they will actually run away with the escrow money,and that it was our fault that we should have known all this. This now actually confirms that IPI and the escrow manager indeed were a fraud right from the beginning and not only that you want us to actually cooperate with them and believe that they will actually finish the resort or sell it to another third party. There is no chance at all that with all that you paint about a " bad egypt/TDA" and a huge liability that now sits on El Sery accounts that any proper due diligence will actually suggest any investor should buy into El Sery. All your comments are just too supportive of El sery and it really is ridiculous for you to suggest that investors were at fault and made a poor judgement.


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## Eco-Mariner

Your words realinvestor, not mine. You have obviously made your mind up and ignored everything I'm saying about the system that the regime operate.

If the promotions were good, the contracts were valid, the funds used to get projects where MABR is right now, irrespective of people speculating about Directors irrational spending, then it cannot be the European operations that faltered.

Not when you see how a succession of Red Sea projects failed in similar circumstances over the last 15 years. It's all about trust and in Egypt right now there is none.
I understand everyone's frustrations but the only reason some take IPI El-Sery to task is because you all know how impossible it is to make a case against the regime.


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Your words realinvestor, not mine. You have obviously made your mind up and ignored everything I'm saying about the system that the regime operate.
> 
> If the promotions were good, the contracts were valid, the funds used to get projects where MABR is right now, irrespective of people speculating about Directors irrational spending, then it cannot be the European operations that faltered.
> 
> Not when you see how a succession of Red Sea projects failed in similar circumstances over the last 15 years. It's all about trust and in Egypt right now there is none.
> I understand everyone's frustrations but the only reason some take IPI El-Sery to task is because you all know how impossible it is to make a case against the regime.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Eco mariner,

Please note we all know know the promotions were not good. they were misleading and downright fraudulent in many cases. Our funds would have been much safer in a Dutch bank and escrow with an independent director (was was presented and sold to us) than in an unfinished block in Egypt. Not only that WE ALL paid eur 750 each for due diligence and escrow management fees, a nice fat pool for the escrow manager Eric mann to enjoy (close to eur 450k in total) and he showed nothing for those fees apart from complete mismanagement of these funds. And it is not speculation about IPI directors irrational spending. These are real facts. We have actually found these to be true facts and some of us have all the details as to flight details names etc...many which have been fully confirmed by ex-IPI staff with documentary evidence as well. This include where the furniture funds went....to companies indirectly owned by some deep IPI insiders. I think you are really underestimating the amount of evidence we have uncovered and our own common-sense thinking and intelligence.


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## Eco-Mariner

Are you expecting sense to be common in Egypt? I am not doubting your evidence or the spending or that they could have mismanaged the funds. Show me one industry in Egypt run by SCAF that isn't.

I'm trying to state that companies like IPI - El Sery had to start with their own working capital and with the amount spent on construction to date equals what you know the Escrow used. If you doubt it pay for a RICS survey.

I say again, the logic is that if you want your monies back from the remainder, go through the correct channels that you signed on your contract of sales. Once those of you do leave the stage maybe the rest can see progress instead of upset. 

I understand that the Italian connection have different issues but they should not have influenced the European investors, that's why I had to say my piece. Those need to ask their Italian Main Agent for refunds as I suspect the breaking of their partnership contract had something to do with most of the money from their sales never reaching the account. If that's the case a court may have to determine this like we have for other failed Hurghada projects.


Eco-Mariner.


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## realinvestor

again and again... I need to repeat that problems with MABR to date have little to do with SCAF or TDA. If they had needed to use all the escrow funds to pay for what they have already built then the problem lies in the original IPI model they used to suck in investors monies by using the security of protected escrows as a false vehicle. What it means is that if what they have done so far is what they had intended then it is fraud and mismanagement of the escrow. So all this proves how badly managed the whole case is and the falls at the doorstep of IPI and the escrow manager and nothing to do with the Egyptian authorities. In reality what they should have marketed right at the beginning was that all our upfront monies were to be used for construction. But then bogus developers like IPi would never have got our capital and it is no wonder that this is the set up used to suck in investors... So let us not blame the TDA for the sake of it as IPI should bear the full brunt of the problems. This is a no-brainer that any one with common sense can tell ...a s cam carried out by false marketing and misrepresentations made by a Dutch developer and there is no Egyptian player to blame. They tried that in Zafarana to throw the entire blame on EMR. Reminds me of the story cry wolf!!!!


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## Eco-Mariner

I agree entirely with that statement realinvestor, but you seem to be wise after the fact.

I saw those anomalies, questioned them and had contracts stipulate addendum to cover them.
Again I stress the word Escrow is not used to the letter of the law, especially as Egypt do not use them in real estate. These are more like Corporate Bank accounts which when drawn up by independent lawyers and accountants, should operate safely and legally.

And why when agents like me who started promoting MABR, told them that the IPI account managers (who are no longer) could cause these disputes, there must be a safeguard. Maybe IPI are also wiser after the fact. I've argued with Eric Maan that point from day one. He stated that if it was allowed to continue in this format without hindrance from Directors now, or SCAF, MABR would still be a viable development.

It may be why many experienced and intelligent investors stayed away, especially when the Italian Agent withdrew from marketing half the apartment block through their own contractual dispute. However my advice is retrieve your funds through your contractual procedures as these were indeed validated within the laws of both countries. 
A mass attack on the core company and you will all retrieve nothing as the brick walls interfering with MABR by SCAF, will topple on you, so they can pick up the project by default.


Eco-Mariner


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## faithless10

i am an investor in mabr and im very worried


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## suntiger1

Hi Faithless10. I am an investor also in mabr. Bought through agent in Dublin who has since gone bust. Not sure what action to take. Not keen on joining with Italian litigants at this point. Any ideas of where we can go from here?


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## SJH11

It is interesting to note that not all the Italian investors are keen on suing - quite a few of them aren't. It may come to litigation eventually but many of us want to give El Sery a bit more time. Their CEO Eric Maan is still in contact and seems like he genuinely wants to get this project built. It appears to be in his best interest too.


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## suntiger1

Hi SJH11. I'd rather not go down the legal route at this time. Don't have the means to sue! Will wait a while...


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## SJH11

Yes, I think you are right Suntiger. There is still a lot of information out there that I think needs to be got at before anyone should decide to sue.


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## faithless10

suntiger1 said:


> Hi Faithless10. I am an investor also in mabr. Bought through agent in Dublin who has since gone bust. Not sure what action to take. Not keen on joining with Italian litigants at this point. Any ideas of where we can go from here?


hi suntiger, i think we just can wait and see the out come of this, i see this mrbr complex for sale on other websites with a completion date of december 2014 , i might soond mellow about this, but belive me, i am very worried about my investment ,,,,,,, i put a lot of my hard earned money into this dream/investment/property and dont want to put in any more.. i pray every thing is going to turn out ok................... do you have an ideas / recent news/information


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## Eco-Mariner

GIC have now realised sueing El Sery-IPI for MABR mismanagement is futile. The consencus of opinion amongst 596 MABR investors is to wait and see. The Italian connection are now in discussions with El Sery's CEO looking at future prospects in light of new government and company positions.

Let me state for the record, MABR has no issues with licenses, construction workers, materials, land ownership or capital investment for the future. In other words this is one of the very rare independent developments free from SCAF interference. In fact the only viable Beach Resort project every International Corporation would like to be involved with.

The problem was always "the system" that we work within and the true facts will soon be disclosed as to El Sery's direction. 


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## siamoricat

Eco-Mariner said:


> GIC have now realised sueing El Sery-IPI for MABR mismanagement is futile. The consencus of opinion amongst 596 MABR investors is to wait and see. The Italian connection are now in discussions with El Sery's CEO looking at future prospects in light of new government and company positions.
> 
> Let me state for the record, MABR has no issues with licenses, construction workers, materials, land ownership or capital investment for the future. In other words this is one of the very rare independent developments free from SCAF interference. In fact the only viable Beach Resort project every International Corporation would like to be involved with.
> 
> The problem was always "the system" that we work within and the true facts will soon be disclosed as to El Sery's direction.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Sounds promising......feel a bit more optimistic after reading that. Will we be receiving a newsletter soon with good news?


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Oh yes.... First from the Dutch company chairman if he has any sense, then from Eric Maan.
But don't expect this immediately, there are issues to deal with in the meantime.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## Cliff123

siamoricat said:


> Sounds promising......feel a bit more optimistic after reading that. Will we be receiving a newsletter soon with good news?


Hi Siamoricat
I'm in a large group and we have been told by Anthony Seddon solicitors that the money is in the escrow but has been moved to another escrow. If you make another 2 posts on this site I can pm you with more information.


----------



## siamoricat

Cliff123 said:


> Hi Siamoricat
> I'm in a large group and we have been told by Anthony Seddon solicitors that the money is in the escrow but has been moved to another escrow. If you make another 2 posts on this site I can pm you with more information.


Hi Cliff,
Im already on ur site.......Cheryl


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> GIC have now realised sueing El Sery-IPI for MABR mismanagement is futile. The consencus of opinion amongst 596 MABR investors is to wait and see. The Italian connection are now in discussions with El Sery's CEO looking at future prospects in light of new government and company positions.
> 
> Let me state for the record, MABR has no issues with licenses, construction workers, materials, land ownership or capital investment for the future. In other words this is one of the very rare independent developments free from SCAF interference. In fact the only viable Beach Resort project every International Corporation would like to be involved with.
> 
> The problem was always "the system" that we work within and the true facts will soon be disclosed as to El Sery's direction.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


I have just come back from vacation and what a load of rubbish I see posted here. All the above is just false and incorrect. Of course you are going to say all the above as maybe you are in IPIs/El Serys pockets who knows. This is supposed to be a genuine forum for all MABR investors and people like you are just distorting the facts and it is a shame. Many of us know that El Sery never received the ALL the LICENCES , specially for the beachfront units and that is why even the basic construction never started for these units and it has been 4 years now. If you think there are no issues with construction workers, materials etc then why still have "force majeure" as this contradicts previous IPI newsletters that getting materials at MABR is a big problem. To say that this is a beach resort any international corp will be involved with is a joke. With so many IPI entities bankrupt, and the El Sery office now a mere shell with just Eric Maan and maybe an administrator it speaks for itself. Yes, on paper the MABR resort looks 5 star and their PURE WOW video look magical but anyone with any sense who digs beneath the glossy veneer will find out they have virtually no experience. the PURE WOW is but a concept and gimmick to attract inexperienced investors and in reality is a more of a glorified time share scam. They have no running PUR WOW centres anywhere where you could look at any successful track record. I could cut and paste the same concept with the video and market it as a beach resort in Mars. Even a 10yr old could would not have paid and ordered all the furniture packages (and misappropriating millions of euros) so well in advance of any completion.There is no point El sery using people like you to communicate whatever they are doing as that should be done directly in their newsletters


----------



## MaidenScotland

This is not a forum for investors. It is a forum for expat to exchange knowledge.


----------



## realinvestor

MaidenScotland said:


> This is not a forum for investors. It is a forum for expat to exchange knowledge.


fair enough as long as the exchange of info takes place in a cordial way and is not heavily dominated by one party. The freedom of exchange for views is an important element and needs to be respected as long as it is based on facts etc. In this respect there seems to be a heavy bias in which the Egyptian authorities are cased in a completely negative tone and some developers promoted in too biased a fashion and all this distorts the reality


----------



## MaidenScotland

realinvestor said:


> fair enough as long as the exchange of info takes place in a cordial way and is not heavily dominated by one party. The freedom of exchange for views is an important element and needs to be respected as long as it is based on facts etc. In this respect there seems to be a heavy bias in which the Egyptian authorities are cased in a completely negative tone and some developers promoted in too biased a fashion and all this distorts the reality




You are free to post your comments.


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## Dark_Ninja

Eco-Mariner said:


> GIC have now realised sueing El Sery-IPI for MABR mismanagement is futile. The consencus of opinion amongst 596 MABR investors is to wait and see. The Italian connection are now in discussions with El Sery's CEO looking at future prospects in light of new government and company positions.
> 
> Let me state for the record, MABR has no issues with licenses, construction workers, materials, land ownership or capital investment for the future. In other words this is one of the very rare independent developments free from SCAF interference. In fact the only viable Beach Resort project every International Corporation would like to be involved with.
> 
> The problem was always "the system" that we work within and the true facts will soon be disclosed as to El Sery's direction.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


 Where did the info about GIC not suing come from. I have not gone down the GIC route and therefore am pleased if this is true. However GIC people have had their money taken up front for legal action and would end up being well out off pocket. Also if this were true it would effect their recruitment drive!


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Directly from the "horse's mouth". In both parties.

I would not print anything that are rumours. As for the previous realinvestor post, I appreciate you were on the project recently, but those staff only tell you what they want you all to hear.
Please wait for the outcome of last week's ultimatum given to the IPIBV Chairman J.T.M. Oddens.

I've warned all the UK buyers not to join the GIC Italian group as they would be wasting their money, so tough if they've ignored me and do lose it.


Eco Mariner.


----------



## fweetas

*Mabr*



rozalba said:


> hello all,
> I am an investor in MABR, a Lithuaninan from Ireland. Are there many of us who've been approached by GIC and don't trust them? is there any activity/private forum where we could discuss things?


Hi 
Living in Ireland and was wondering if there are many more here in Ireland that invested?
New to this online forum thing but we are in the same boat here.After thinking we made a great investment at MABR we are starting to run out of options in order to get answers. We have been approached by GIC but to be honest were a bit wary of the whole lot now at the moment,


----------



## Dark_Ninja

Eco-Mariner said:


> Directly from the "horse's mouth". In both parties.
> 
> I would not print anything that are rumours. As for the previous realinvestor post, I appreciate you were on the project recently, but those staff only tell you what they want you all to hear.
> Please wait for the outcome of last week's ultimatum given to the IPIBV Chairman J.T.M. Oddens.
> 
> I've warned all the UK buyers not to join the GIC Italian group as they would be wasting their money, so tough if they've ignored me and do lose it.
> 
> 
> Eco Mariner.


Thank you Eco Mariner for your prompt reply.


----------



## suntiger1

fweetas said:


> Hi
> Living in Ireland and was wondering if there are many more here in Ireland that invested?
> New to this online forum thing but we are in the same boat here.After thinking we made a great investment at MABR we are starting to run out of options in order to get answers. We have been approached by GIC but to be honest were a bit wary of the whole lot now at the moment,


Hi Fweetas,
We bought our apartment through agent in Dublin, who have since gone bust. We are taking Eco Mariners advise and have not gone with GIC Legal. Will wait to hear statement from IPI, due imminently. Hopefully there will be good news soon.


----------



## fweetas

suntiger1 said:


> Hi Fweetas,
> We bought our apartment through agent in Dublin, who have since gone bust. We are taking Eco Mariners advise and have not gone with GIC Legal. Will wait to hear statement from IPI, due imminently. Hopefully there will be good news soon.


Hi suntiger

Thanks for the reply yes I think we will wait and see what they say also and as you say hopefully it will be good news for us.


----------



## SJH11

Has anyone here signed up with GIC Legal? It seems like most people are prepared to wait a bit longer - me included.


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## MichaelC

Hi i have just joined the forum today and also bought from an agent in Dublin.I was approached by GIC legal but as yet have done nothing hoping things will improve with IPI


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## Dark_Ninja

MichaelC said:


> Hi i have just joined the forum today and also bought from an agent in Dublin.I was approached by GIC legal but as yet have done nothing hoping things will improve with IPI


Wlcome Michael.
There are alot of us the same position and we are sitting tight for the time being. However El Sery need to get a move on and at least issue us with some kind of update. The longer they leave it the more tempting will be the draw to the dark side!

Post a few more messages regarding questions you want answered! This is important on this forum!


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## fweetas

Dark_Ninja said:


> Wlcome Michael.
> There are alot of us the same position and we are sitting tight for the time being. However El Sery need to get a move on and at least issue us with some kind of update. The longer they leave it the more tempting will be the draw to the dark side!
> 
> Post a few more messages regarding questions you want answered! This is important on this forum!


Hi Dark_Ninja,

Have you or anybody who invested in MABR been in touch with ELSery lately? Or even been updated on the development? As investors we all really need to find some answers here sooner rather than later!!


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## SJH11

fweetas said:


> Hi Dark_Ninja,
> 
> Have you or anybody who invested in MABR been in touch with ELSery lately? Or even been updated on the development? As investors we all really need to find some answers here sooner rather than later!!


There are quite a few investors based in Ireland. Are you in contact with any of them?


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## MichaelC

I would like to make contact with some other investors in ireland so as we can discuss our issues


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## SJH11

MichaelC said:


> I would like to make contact with some other investors in ireland so as we can discuss our issues


Did your agent go bust Michael?


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## MichaelC

Yes seems to have gone bust


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## SJH11

There is news of a meeting with El Sery in the next couple of weeks.


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## MichaelC

Ok this is good maybe some answers but i doubt it


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## SJH11

Eric Maan of El Sery has agreed to meet representatives of our group - we have shed loads of questions to ask him.


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## MichaelC

Hi this is very good . I hope that there will be a positive outcome .Looking forward to seeing some answers


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## Dark_Ninja

SJH11 said:


> There are quite a few investors based in Ireland. Are you in contact with any of them?


There are a few from round dublin


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## fweetas

SJH11 said:


> There are quite a few investors based in Ireland. Are you in contact with any of them?


Hi SJH11

No I have not been in touch with anyone as yet but I certainly would be interested in doing so.


----------



## fweetas

MichaelC said:


> I would like to make contact with some other investors in ireland so as we can discuss our issues


Hi MichealC

I would also be interested in making contact with other investors from Ireland. As you say at least we could discuss the options. 
Have you been speaking to anybody else from Ireland who invested? I have not.


----------



## bolin3876

has anybody heard from El Sery lately,as i think they have done a runner.


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## realinvestor

Hello Bolin

You are quite right in stating that El sery is doing a runner. We have all been waiting patiently for some new information from IPI but it now seems that they have virtually closed shop and with the latest court case in Netherlands really negative for them in the Zafarana case the implications for MABR investors are stark. Many false promises and indications (including some by pro-IPI-El sery supporters on the forum) have been made not just recently but in fact over the past two years and neither El Sery nor IPI have revealed anything of substance at all except they keep on saying new information will be given shortly. I know a group of investors have lost complete patience and are about to contact both the Dutch police and interpol about the grave status of the missing escrow funds in MABR. Under Dutch law, Mr Maan is personally liable for the escrow and the danger for him now is that as multiple cases mount up for him, he will be cornered from all angles as all this negative evidence and court rulings against both him and IPI will then be submitted to the Egyptian courts. unfortunately, in our case the situation now resembles one of a headless chicken and it is only a matter of time before the vultures circle the carcass. It is time for IPI/EL Sery to show their final hand otherwise it will be all too late.


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## SJH11

Realinvestor, your biased untruths make me wonder who you are working for. At the moment, our large investors' group is in constant touch with Eric Maan of El Sery. So no, El Sery have NOT shut up shop and done a runner. I have no axe to grind here and I have not ruled out legal action for the future. However, will all those who are taking legal action please get real. Just what do you think you will achieve for yourselves? If a fraud is proven - and that is a big 'IF' - those responsible will perhaps be imprisoned and their assets sold off to pay creditors. Do you really think you will get your money back? If most of it has been spent on spiralling costs to get the MABR site to where it is, then it CANNOT be paid back to the investors, because it has gone. In my opinion (and that is all it can be) the only option is for investors to wait until the site is finished and get our apartments handed over. It is not ideal but the other option is to spend money on solicitors who may or may not get a result in the courts. Only if they get a result in the courts, do the courts award to the investors. BUT if there is no money available, the investors still get nothing even if they have been awarded money. It really does no good at all that people are posting their own views and opinions as FACT when it is nothing but conjecture. Everyone's opinion should be valued as it could lead to further ideas. However, PLEASE, for the sake of clarity for everyone, post your thoughts as precisely what they are - your opinion.


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## Cliff123

Nice one SJH11 someone talking sense

QUOTE=SJH11;866038]Realinvestor, your biased untruths make me wonder who you are working for. At the moment, our large investors' group is in constant touch with Eric Maan of El Sery. So no, El Sery have NOT shut up shop and done a runner. I have no axe to grind here and I have not ruled out legal action for the future. However, will all those who are taking legal action please get real. Just what do you think you will achieve for yourselves? If a fraud is proven - and that is a big 'IF' - those responsible will perhaps be imprisoned and their assets sold off to pay creditors. Do you really think you will get your money back? If most of it has been spent on spiralling costs to get the MABR site to where it is, then it CANNOT be paid back to the investors, because it has gone. In my opinion (and that is all it can be) the only option is for investors to wait until the site is finished and get our apartments handed over. It is not ideal but the other option is to spend money on solicitors who may or may not get a result in the courts. Only if they get a result in the courts, do the courts award to the investors. BUT if there is no money available, the investors still get nothing even if they have been awarded money. It really does no good at all that people are posting their own views and opinions as FACT when it is nothing but conjecture. Everyone's opinion should be valued as it could lead to further ideas. However, PLEASE, for the sake of clarity for everyone, post your thoughts as precisely what they are - your opinion.[/QUOTE]


----------



## realinvestor

SJH11 said:


> Realinvestor, your biased untruths make me wonder who you are working for. At the moment, our large investors' group is in constant touch with Eric Maan of El Sery. So no, El Sery have NOT shut up shop and done a runner. I have no axe to grind here and I have not ruled out legal action for the future. However, will all those who are taking legal action please get real. Just what do you think you will achieve for yourselves? If a fraud is proven - and that is a big 'IF' - those responsible will perhaps be imprisoned and their assets sold off to pay creditors. Do you really think you will get your money back? If most of it has been spent on spiralling costs to get the MABR site to where it is, then it CANNOT be paid back to the investors, because it has gone. In my opinion (and that is all it can be) the only option is for investors to wait until the site is finished and get our apartments handed over. It is not ideal but the other option is to spend money on solicitors who may or may not get a result in the courts. Only if they get a result in the courts, do the courts award to the investors. BUT if there is no money available, the investors still get nothing even if they have been awarded money. It really does no good at all that people are posting their own views and opinions as FACT when it is nothing but conjecture. Everyone's opinion should be valued as it could lead to further ideas. However, PLEASE, for the sake of clarity for everyone, post your thoughts as precisely what they are - your opinion.



I am glad that we have a contrast of views on the forum and like any market that has buyers and sellers the forum is good for an exchange of views. Whilst we may differ on both views and interpretation of various issues, I also think my views are based on hard facts and not mere conjecture or opinion. El Sery is an Egyptian company but that is ultimately owned and held by IPI and mainly Mr Jurgen and that is a fact, unless there has been a significant shift in the shareholdings which then should have been communicated to investors. A multi-million euro project, and that is what over 500 investors put in to the tune of more than 20m million euros is a big chunk of investment and what is sad is that this project has been held hostage by just one key player, namely Mr Maan. In reality if proper management was applied with both fiduciary duties, due care of directors etc then both the board of El Sery and IPI should have been more open to investors a long long time ago. IPI & El Sery never had proper management structures and construction expertise. Yes , we do not know the precise facts as to how much money has gone into the project and how much is missing but just imagine if there was just large lender (instead of 500 investors), this project would long have been taken over and management kicked out. Yes, you are right in that investors may not get anything back even in a successful legal case against El Sery. But either way, what you will get is access to a very illiquid asset and perhaps missing escrow funds. And maybe a group of investors can also get a third party investor to complete and manage the project, and that should not be underestimated. The bottom line is that El sery should be held accountable to what has happened to our money and if they do not show their cards, they will have little credibility left in the eyes of both the law (in Egypt and Netherlands) and also investors. What we are been faced is that we are indirectly being blackmailed by a party that has fall far short of the commitments to their main pool of investors and have already been in significant breach of contracts with us and are now threatening us that if we seek legal action that we will lose all our money. If a big chunk of our funds is missing from the safety of our escrow in Netherlands, then IPI/El Sery have already broken the law in Netgherlands and put our funds at greater risk elsewhere. This story of a new investor has been the carrot dangling in front of us for over a year now and many investors just do not believe them. What might change is if El sery has a plan B such as trying to complete the resort in a smaller way. I would be happy if I was given an apartment that was a 3-star but was more viable and achievable in arms of completion. In summary, I am an investor like you and would give IPI/El Sery no more than 3 months to come up with facts/evidence etc and a viable plan as to what various options are. In the absence of that I would then prefer to take control (as a group) of the project legally and secure all the assets available. I am sure many of us have better management skills and expertise than El Sery/IPI. Ask any teenager with some basic education today if they were in charge of a construction project would they pay upfront and in advance furniture money to a third party or wait to order and pay towards the end? and you will get your answer as to how bad/poor IPi/El sery have been in even the most basic business principles


----------



## magbed

Hi everyone.
I'am new on this forum.
Also invested in MABR. I'm worried is that el-sery does not inform us about the current situation. I am still hopeful that the investment will be finish.
I got an invitation from the GIC but did not use their help.
I look for others investors to take action together.


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## realinvestor

magbed said:


> Hi everyone.
> I'am new on this forum.
> Also invested in MABR. I'm worried is that el-sery does not inform us about the current situation. I am still hopeful that the investment will be finish.
> I got an invitation from the GIC but did not use their help.
> I look for others investors to take action together.


Hello fellow MABR investors

I have checked with 3 different Egyptian lawyers and the assessment of our contracts is this: Most if not all MABR contracts , whether they are through IPI or El sery are weak in that they are not sanctioned by the local Egyptian courts in terms of signature verification. Anyone who has dealt with Egyptian property matters ought to know what this means. We only signed our contracts in a non-Egyptian jurisdiction and our contracts really should have been signature-verfied in the EGYPTIAN courts right from the beginning. For any contract to be legally binding and be secure they ought to have their property fully registered and /or their purchase contracts court approved via the signature verification procedure. If not then they are weak. Of course El sery/IPI will not tell this to us. But if they do sell the resort to a third party, and that is what they have been communicating to us, then our contracts will be much weaker, and the new investors could easily have first priority over our apartments if they do buy the resort and also have the resort purchase court-verified. Under this scenario they would probably have first priority and then we would be weak and on the defensive and with the implications that we we would have to whatever terms they impose on us if we wanted our apartments finished. It seems that Seddons. the UK solicitor who did the DD did not recommend this and should have to the investors who went through him. Clearly this is another grey area of potential negligence by the Uk solicitor.


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## Eco-Mariner

95% of projects are deemed unsafe in Egypt because of the statement realinvestor has just made. Clearly these grey areas were never uncovered by the majority of lawyers, British or otherwise.

We cannot call this inept. Maybe it was deliberate from the outset. 

Residential investment by foreigners could at first be seen as a risk, however were we agents and professionals deliberately misinformed to secure billions in foreign currency just to get Egyptian projects started and then for the developers not to deliver? If these grey areas were designed only for third party take-overs to pick up the pieces it obviously leaves buyers with nothing?

Time will tell and its fast running out.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> 95% of projects are deemed unsafe in Egypt because of the statement realinvestor has just made. Clearly these grey areas were never uncovered by the majority of lawyers, British or otherwise.
> 
> We cannot call this inept. Maybe it was deliberate from the outset.
> 
> Residential investment by foreigners could at first be seen as a risk, however were we agents and professionals deliberately misinformed to secure billions in foreign currency just to get Egyptian projects started and then for the developers not to deliver? If these grey areas were designed only for third party take-overs to pick up the pieces it obviously leaves buyers with nothing?
> 
> Time will tell and its fast running out.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.



Dear Eco Mariner

I concur with you that a lot of developments that were sold and marked by foreign developers are insecure if they did not go through the proper procedures namely verifying all contracts via the court signature validation process. So in a way we are both right in that lawyers who claimed that they did the Due diligence did not really do much - except make photocopies of of the building permits etc ...I do not think these great areas were designed by someone. This is a major fault line where foreign developers and lawyers collect fees and revenues upfront without doing their own research etc into the complexities involved. It is precisely this mismatch of the needs of securing the long-term interest of investors versus the short-term needs of developers and lawyers to make profits and fees upfront. You are absolutely right in that time is running out and that time in itself will speak for itself as the real truth unfold


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## Cliff123

Is it possible to go to an Egyptian court and get duel language contracts validated.


Eco-Mariner said:


> 95% of projects are deemed unsafe in Egypt because of the statement realinvestor has just made. Clearly these grey areas were never uncovered by the majority of lawyers, British or otherwise.
> 
> We cannot call this inept. Maybe it was deliberate from the outset.
> 
> Residential investment by foreigners could at first be seen as a risk, however were we agents and professionals deliberately misinformed to secure billions in foreign currency just to get Egyptian projects started and then for the developers not to deliver? If these grey areas were designed only for third party take-overs to pick up the pieces it obviously leaves buyers with nothing?
> 
> Time will tell and its fast running out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


----------



## magbed

Is possible to get signature veryfication by egyptian court ? or our contracts are not valid anymore


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## magbed

fweetas said:


> Hi
> Living in Ireland and was wondering if there are many more here in Ireland that invested?
> New to this online forum thing but we are in the same boat here.After thinking we made a great investment at MABR we are starting to run out of options in order to get answers. We have been approached by GIC but to be honest were a bit wary of the whole lot now at the moment,


Hi Fweetas,
We living in Drogheda , IRL and we also very worry about our invest. We look for investors from Ireland. Is many of them on this forum?


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## realinvestor

Cliff123 said:


> Is it possible to go to an Egyptian court and get duel language contracts validated.


of course it is the norm that you must have dual-language contracts - one side in Arabic and the other side in the other language - for them to be validated by the Egyptian courts. That is why initially some of the MABR contracts were improper as they were just in English. Like the Zafarana contracts these were very insecure and improper and as IPi found out about their inexperiences and mistakes the later one sin MABR were then dual language and also issued by the egypian company ( El sery) and not by IPI. But the first thing IPI/El Sery/Seddons should have done is after the signing of the purchase agreements, they should have been verified by the courts in Egypt. The mere signing of the dual-language contracts was nit enough as that should have immediately been followed up by ratification and court-verification in Egyptian courts.


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## Cliff123

Is it still possible for an individual investor to go to an Egyptian court and get their contract ratified or does it have to be done by El Sery?



realinvestor said:


> of course it is the norm that you must have dual-language contracts - one side in Arabic and the other side in the other language - for them to be validated by the Egyptian courts. That is why initially some of the MABR contracts were improper as they were just in English. Like the Zafarana contracts these were very insecure and improper and as IPi found out about their inexperiences and mistakes the later one sin MABR were then dual language and also issued by the egypian company ( El sery) and not by IPI. But the first thing IPI/El Sery/Seddons should have done is after the signing of the purchase agreements, they should have been verified by the courts in Egypt. The mere signing of the dual-language contracts was nit enough as that should have immediately been followed up by ratification and court-verification in Egyptian courts.


----------



## realinvestor

Cliff123 said:


> Is it still possible for an individual investor to go to an Egyptian court and get their contract ratified or does it have to be done by El Sery?


Hello Cliff.

This is a very good question and to be frank I do not have the complete answer. Normally, an Egyptian lawyer would do this at the time of purchase and in concert with both the buyer and seller in agreement (implicit in the purchase agreement). I am not sure as to what could happen if a buyer went via a lawyer now after 3/4 years of the initial purchase. My guess is that it still could be done but would need a good Eygptian lawyer to pursue this. I think the procedure is such that the court verification procedure would involve a grace period in which the court would contact the seller (in our case El Sery) to make sure there were no objections to the agreement. I believe that the first steps that GIC (for those who go with GIC) will take, will involve such a procedure anyway as they will try to seek a court sanction to have first priority and register the purchase contract with the courts. So whether one wants to take legal action or not against El sery, the first stages of the GIC procedure will need to be undertaken anyway by any investors who wants to secure a layer of security over their property purchase


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## Eco-Mariner

This is the normal proceedure. It is the only way to start and protect your interests.
The problem of course is which lawyer you can trust with your poa to do exactly what is required (nothing else) and not fleece you in the process.

As suggested it is best to go with an Egyptian lawyer to notarise your contracts rather than a bill for an outsider in search and legal fees as they will only sub-contract a local clerk anyhow, but then you have to consider the costs of being there and the time it will take to complete.

I still insist owners wait for the summary of meetings we've had in Cairo and Holland. Things are moving in the background and decisions now need to be made by Jurgens.


Eco-Mariner.


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## samui13

Hi Cliff, a lawyer will need your original contract and they can then take it to the courts. However, the last I heard was that contracts had been put on hold in the courts - I know friends who have not had theirs back after two years. For now I would keep hold of them - otherwise you might never see them again.

If you can find a good lawyer, you could ask them approximately how long the signature validation process is taking at the moment and if things are moving again.

Lou


----------



## realinvestor

samui13 said:


> Hi Cliff, a lawyer will need your original contract and they can then take it to the courts. However, the last I heard was that contracts had been put on hold in the courts - I know friends who have not had theirs back after two years. For now I would keep hold of them - otherwise you might never see them again.
> 
> If you can find a good lawyer, you could ask them approximately how long the signature validation process is taking at the moment and if things are moving again.
> 
> Lou


Hello Lou,

My experience is better and I know for a fact that if you get a good lawyer, then they can be validated in 3 months. I know of two investors who have done that recently and despite the revolution etc, many parts of the legal system work ok. Major disputes may take longer but the signature validation procedure is widely used by all Egyptians and is reasonably tested out as it is the bedrock of the existing system even though the green or formal registration now is going to be put to better use. As long as the original contracts are done in dual language and one can find a decent lawyer then I see no reason what investors cannot have faith in the current system which is widely used by all investors.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Court Signiture Validity is the only practical way of proving a purchase has been made and the seller has received your monies. This can be notarised once proof of 40% or more was indeed accepted by the developer as he or his lawyer has also to sign in aggreement.

However, this also brings to light any anomolies in the process as many Egyptian contracts themselves are worthless due to the system residential property ownership was derived. In MABR's case everything was in order by IPI-El Sery except the agents used many differing contracts which could be worthless due to returning e-mailed versions or a lack of true Arabic translation which is the only legal course of validation. 


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Court Signiture Validity is the only practical way of proving a purchase has been made and the seller has received your monies. This can be notarised once proof of 40% or more was indeed accepted by the developer as he or his lawyer has also to sign in aggreement.
> 
> However, this also brings to light any anomolies in the process as many Egyptian contracts themselves are worthless due to the system residential property ownership was derived. In MABR's case everything was in order by IPI-El Sery except the agents used many differing contracts which could be worthless due to returning e-mailed versions or a lack of true Arabic translation which is the only legal course of validation.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Dear Eco mariner

You are absolutely right in that the court validation system is paramount in terms of authenticating contracts. But I beg to differ that it IS AGENTS who are at fault. I know you support IPI/El Sery but lets get some of the facts correct. ALL contracts were drafted and done by IPI/El Sery and in some cases signed off by seddons. Initially some of the contracts were only in English and/or not dual language with arabic, and when IPI found out their ignorance/mistakes/incompetence/ineptitude they did then change most of them into dual language. All the brochures and marketing was done by IPI and that is where all the false misrepresentations (independent escrow, independent due diligence) were made. Most agents who marketed the project most likely just accepted what IPI did and "pasted" these brochures into their own materials. But in terms of the actual writing of contracts etc these were the sole responsibility of IPI/El Sery and that is where the buck stops.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I never said all agents and all IPI officials.... I said all Egypt projects all lawyers and all agents around the world think Egypt's legal system was easy to work with...It isn't.

Hence 90% of contracts (be it with development partnerships, agency agreements or client purchases) are susceptible to being proved worthless.

Yes there were major mistakes by the company, start to finish, hence a whole new perspective is required to rectify the situation. That's on the agenda.


Eco - Mariner.


----------



## samui13

Thanks Real Investor - my contracts were validated in three months, however friends with the same lawyer have taken two years. I have been told by quite a few people in Sharm that contract validation is on hold (or was during the revolution and that was what the hold up is - too many dodgy land backhanders were going on. May not be the case now, but I am speaking from experience. the same lawyer taking three months and two years for different contracts (on the same resort) would not make sense otherwise. Mine were done back in 2008 and were three months. The other guys were 2009/10 and he is still waiting.


Lawyer in question was Zeiad Yehia, Edgebridge Law firm - so you can be the judge on whether he is a good lawyer or not, all im saying is, same lawyer, same developement, same dual language contract, in 2008 took 3 months and is now taking two years. Maybe the lawyer changed from good to bad, but perhaps maybe the system has changed since you last experienced it.

Lou


----------



## bolin3876

*Its nice to here some positive comments on here,but why is it not possible for myself*



Eco-Mariner said:


> I never said all agents and all IPI officials.... I said all Egypt projects all lawyers and all agents around the world think Egypt's legal system was easy to work with...It isn't.
> 
> Hence 90% of contracts (be it with development partnerships, agency agreements or client purchases) are susceptible to being proved worthless.
> 
> Yes there were major mistakes by the company, start to finish, hence a whole new perspective is required to rectify the situation. That's on the agenda.
> 
> 
> Eco - Mariner.


its nice to hear some posotive remarks about this,but why am i not able to contact them myself.


----------



## Cliff123

Thanks Lou I hope you Stu are well and you have worked your problems out with your apartment.
Cliff



samui13 said:


> Hi Cliff, a lawyer will need your original contract and they can then take it to the courts. However, the last I heard was that contracts had been put on hold in the courts - I know friends who have not had theirs back after two years. For now I would keep hold of them - otherwise you might never see them again.
> 
> If you can find a good lawyer, you could ask them approximately how long the signature validation process is taking at the moment and if things are moving again.
> 
> Lou


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> I never said all agents and all IPI officials.... I said all Egypt projects all lawyers and all agents around the world think Egypt's legal system was easy to work with...It isn't.
> 
> Hence 90% of contracts (be it with development partnerships, agency agreements or client purchases) are susceptible to being proved worthless.
> 
> Yes there were major mistakes by the company, start to finish, hence a whole new perspective is required to rectify the situation. That's on the agenda.
> 
> 
> Eco - Mariner.


Dear eco mariner,

It is good we are able to clarify all these issues. And if you are sincere (which I am sure sure are) in that you are on good terms with Eric Maan then what you admit that - major mistakes were made by the company (IPI) from start to finish- is a major admission by someone in the knowhow. Now that is where most of the investors have been bewildered and taken aback as none of this came out of their official newsletters and emails etc. And that is why over the next few weeks we all need to know the truth as to both the status quo and the alternative plans.


----------



## bolin3876

Would be nice if we had some sort of contact on whats going on,no ones contacted me.


----------



## bolin3876

bolin3876 said:


> Would be nice if we had some sort of contact on whats going on,no ones contacted me.


 do ythey really exist,or is it another con.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

The after-sales team are as bewildered as investors I'm sorry to say. Then again they are not priviledged with answers. Those come later when decisions are made at the top.


Eco-Mariner


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> The after-sales team are as bewildered as investors I'm sorry to say. Then again they are not priviledged with answers. Those come later when decisions are made at the top.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


The after sales team is just a shell. Let us assess the facts. Many parts of IPI are bankrupt. El sery has probably no more than 2 employees and the only one left in the after sales team in IPI Netherlands is one person related to Jurgen. The real issue is what has happened to the shareholdings in El sery. Eric Maan was not a shareholder initially but probably is now or is obviously looking to get hold of some/many shares as Jurgen fades away. And of course it would be interesting to find out what stake Ted obbeerals (inventor of the Pure WOW concept) has or will get


----------



## fweetas

*MABR investor*



magbed said:


> Hi Fweetas,
> We living in Drogheda , IRL and we also very worry about our invest. We look for investors from Ireland. Is many of them on this forum?


Hi Magbed,

If you post 5 messages on the expat forum you are then able to send and receive PM,s
I have not been in touch with any investors from Ireland but it would be good to get a couple of opinions on the matter from a few. We are in Cork


----------



## bolin3876

Did anyone else get the e-mail about some guy from el-seery retiring due to ill heath,i can get there e-mails about this.but they dont reply to any i send about,whats happening at the Marsa-Alam beach resort.


----------



## jogoodac

*Relief to have found you*

Hello everyone,

I am an Investor in MABR / Pure Wellbeing Resort and am so relieved to have found this forum / thread. I have been reading your posts and empathise with your fear, anger and helplessness. Despite consulting Citizens Advice, Trading Standards and my Solicitor I remained isolated and unable to resolve the alarming issues that were unfolding.

I bought a 2 bed apartment as a holiday destination / income and investmentment for the future of our four children.

Like many of you, I have been contacted by GIC Legal but did not attend their meeting, nor have I parted with any cash as I was suspicious as to the truth of their claims.

Has anyone got any fresh news?


----------



## Dark_Ninja

jogoodac said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am an <a class="ktg6us78hf8vdu7" href="#">Investor</a> in MABR / Pure Wellbeing Resort and am so relieved to have found this forum / thread. I have been reading your posts and empathise with your fear, anger and helplessness. Despite consulting Citizens Advice, Trading Standards and my Solicitor I remained isolated and unable to resolve the alarming issues that were unfolding.
> 
> I bought a 2 bed apartment as a holiday destination / income and investmentment for the future of our four children.
> 
> Like many of you, I have been contacted by GIC Legal but did not attend their meeting, nor have I parted with any cash as I was suspicious as to the truth of their claims.
> 
> Has anyone got any fresh news?


 I think we may have some news shortly about this mess. Ask a few more direct questions by posting on here. We will then be able to private message you as to some more locations to find some info. You are not alone!


----------



## Dark_Ninja

samui13 said:


> Thanks Real <a class="ktg6us78hf8vdu7" href="#">Investor</a> - my contracts were validated in three months, however friends with the same lawyer have taken two years. I have been told by quite a few people in Sharm that contract validation is on hold (or was during the revolution and that was what the hold up is - too many dodgy land backhanders were going on. May not be the case now, but I am speaking from experience. the same <a class="ktg6us78hf8vdu7" href="#">lawyer</a> taking three months and two years for different contracts (on the same resort) would not make sense otherwise. Mine were done back in 2008 and were three months. The other guys were 2009/10 and he is still waiting.
> 
> 
> Lawyer in question was Zeiad Yehia, Edgebridge Law firm - so you can be the judge on whether he is a good lawyer or not, all im saying is, same lawyer, same developement, same dual language contract, in 2008 took 3 months and is now taking two years. Maybe the lawyer changed from good to bad, but perhaps maybe the system has changed since you last experienced it.
> 
> 
> Lou



It is probably not worth doing it then at the moment as the court system is obviously not working at full capacity and is probably likely to undergo changes with the new government?


----------



## Lisajayne1

Please can someone help!! This is my 1st time to a forum! We brought an apartment in MABR 21/2 years ago and have been burying our head in the sand & praying it will all come good in the end!!
A few months ago we were awaiting new investors & once again stupidly I hoped this was true 

Now I am not getting replies to my emails & searched for IPI site but came across this forum. 
Please please please can someone help me as to what is actually happening & where we stand with IPI & the escrow accounts?
I am so overwhelmed by what I have just read on the forum that I really could use some advise from someone who is unto date with what is happening


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Welcome to this MABR thread. If you back track through posts you may find help.
As I've been assisting IPI - El Sery Wellbeing move forward by advising investors to stay calm, what I can tell everyone right now is that the Financial CEO Eric Maan has a buy out offer on the table for the Dutch company and awaits the Chairmans decision.

In order to move MABR on for 596 investors he resigned to make this offer to the board of IPI Directors. If they refuse to sell their shares, court proceedings will take over as there was malpractice and we have necessary documentation to push it through. With consequences Jurgons cannot avoid he has little option.

Now this may not be immediate... This is Egypt.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## 50gary

*any more news eco mariner*

any more news eco mariner i know there was a meeting last week with eric mann


Eco-Mariner said:


> Welcome to this MABR thread. If you back track through posts you may find help.
> As I've been assisting IPI - El Sery Wellbeing move forward by advising investors to stay calm, what I can tell everyone right now is that the Financial CEO Eric Maan has a buy out offer on the table for the Dutch company and awaits the Chairmans decision.
> 
> In order to move MABR on for 596 investors he resigned to make this offer to the board of IPI Directors. If they refuse to sell their shares, court proceedings will take over as there was malpractice and we have necessary documentation to push it through. With consequences Jurgons cannot avoid he has little option.
> 
> Now this may not be immediate... This is Egypt.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Find a member named Cliff123 posting on MABR and p.m. him for the summary.


----------



## magbed

does anyone know how many investors is in touch with each other?


----------



## Dark_Ninja

magbed said:


> does anyone know how many investors is in touch with each other?


There are 70 of us that are in touch on another web site


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## magbed

> There are 70 of us that are in touch on another web site


Can I know a name of this web site or that must be private message?


----------



## Dark_Ninja

magbed said:


> Can I know a name of this web site or that must be private message?


PM Me.


----------



## 50gary

*mabr*



50gary said:


> any more news eco mariner i know there was a meeting last week with eric mann


hi eco mariner i see that most of the investors are going down the legal route i dont if im stupid but i dont think anyones got a hope in hell of getting money that everyone seems to agree isnt there i can onty see this doing more harm than good any thoughts


----------



## Eco-Mariner

When the pot is empty why pay more to a lawyer to get no cash back. That's stupid.
But to see a completed project with owners using them is not as hard as it sounds because the assets are already on the ground and only needs an injection to revive it.

That said, the stumbling block is not cash but the reluctance of the owner Jurgons to relinquish his holdings. The option is his, either stay and fight legal proceedings to be presented by lawyers acting on behalf of associated companies, or bail out gracefully, only time will tell. 

But a class action case by owners to me is not the best option as that could end any legal rights you all have with your contracts whatever these represent, hence why I advocate getting them checked out in Egypt by an Egyptian lawyer.


Eco-Mariner


----------



## SJH11

*GIC Legal*

To anybody thinking about employing GIC Legal. All of the following *alarming *information is available on the internet. Naturally I cannot be sure of the truth or otherwise of anything that is posted.

The Director of GIC Legal Louis-Xavier Huguenin-Vuillemin is also a Director with a Spanish law firm called Martinez ECHEVARRIA solicitors (see his LinkedIn page: Louis-Xavier Huguenin-Vuillemin profiles | LinkedIn 

Having done an internet search on Martinez ECHEVARRIA PEREZ Y FERRERO, this Spanish law firm have apparently been involved with a *FRAUD *involving a Real Estate Company called MacAnthony Realty International (MRI). 

There is a MRI Investors Support Group who have posted the following: 
_Please be informed that the Martinez-Echevarria are the same people as “Legal Independence” the lawyers in Bulgaria who were supposed to represent clients buying through or from MacAnthony Realty International companies. 
Yet MRISG [MRI Support Group] have irrefutable evidence that they worked for MRI as part of the whole process yet took money from clients by false representation. Martinez-Echevarria also appear to be passing themselves off as Martinez-Echevarria Legal Business School, a legal business school with links to the London School of Economics, University of la Rioja, Michael Page Tax & Legal and ADM Management and Business School. It makes you wonder if these other organisations and the Law Society in Madrid have done their ‘Due Diligence‘ or not. However, mention of Darragh MacAnthony or MRI on their CV or websites is significantly missing… We wonder why._

Legal Independence, the lawyers in Bulgaria, have since closed their offices. It appears that Martinez ECHEVARRIA use various names in various capacities. All I am saying is BEWARE.


----------



## SJH11

*Calling "Pompeycarl"!!!!*

Is "Pompeycarl" around at all? I was interested in something you posted earlier this year and would like some more info please!


----------



## jogoodac

*Back online*



Dark_Ninja said:


> I think we may have some news shortly about this mess. Ask a few more direct questions by posting on here. We will then be able to private message you as to some more locations to find some info. You are not alone!


Hi Dark Ninja,

Thanks for your reply- I've been offline for a while.

Just been reading recent posts & some make very upsetting reading (e.g. Lisajayne1). I am sure we can all identify with the misery and helplessness felt.

It seems our Spanish friend (term used very loosly) from GIC Legal has been a very busy boy. As previously mentioned, we have declined his regular invitations to give him our money but he'll have managed to persuade others. 

Have you heard anything recently about Jeurgens?


----------



## realinvestor

does anyone have any idea of what El Sery's assets are worth in Egypt? This will be mainly based on potential value of land and existing infrastructure etc as well as any car or other assets they may have


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Either an Official Receiver is appointed to do a full audit once a company goes (or forced) into liquidation, (which usually takes on the role of selling those assets off and whose costs are taken out of the proceeds); or owners can pay for their own independent auditor. 

But as these assets are not easily at hand or willingly disclosed, legal proceedings need to be in place to allow bailifs or detectives access to search for all the company accounts and records on behalf of the auditor. That I would think can only happen after the company is found guilty of some civil or criminal activity.

It will not be a simple task.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Either an Official Receiver is appointed to do a full audit once a company goes (or forced) into liquidation, (which usually takes on the role of selling those assets off and whose costs are taken out of the proceeds); or owners can pay for their own independent auditor.
> 
> But as these assets are not easily at hand or willingly disclosed, legal proceedings need to be in place to allow bailifs or detectives access to search for all the company accounts and records on behalf of the auditor. That I would think can only happen after the company is found guilty of some civil or criminal activity.
> 
> It will not be a simple task.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Ok under this scenario it will be better for an independent receiver or auditor to be paid something and we can still salvage whatever is left of the mess IPI/El sery is in. I would rather have these independents taking off some of the capital than the IPI/El sery culprits have more after having defrauded millions from innocent investors. I see no other solution as the assets of the company are probably illiquid anyway and it is unlikely there is much cash left anyway. In fact it seems that even if an outside investors comes in it will only be after such an independent audit and/or a court-backed plan is enacted that they will ever invest in the project to complete it


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Exactly... And any new finacial "backer" will obviously have done his own intensive audit so an independent one will support their own asset value in any takeover. That said, any investor cash that was spent by IPI officials correctly or otherwise will not be retrievable. 
i.e. how can agents be expected to pay back commissions? 
How can legal costs be recovered? 
Why would SCAF refund license fees?
The only tangible assets must be in the land and buildings already constructed and like I said previously, I think that is what tempts these Middle East financiers to become involved. Even more so if they have vacant possession, so it's up to all buyers not to walk away from their investments or give up their contracts in any scam. 


Eco-Mariner


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Exactly... And any new finacial "backer" will obviously have done his own intensive audit so an independent one will support their own asset value in any takeover. That said, any investor cash that was spent by IPI officials correctly or otherwise will not be retrievable.
> i.e. how can agents be expected to pay back commissions?
> How can legal costs be recovered?
> Why would SCAF refund license fees?
> The only tangible assets must be in the land and buildings already constructed and like I said previously, I think that is what tempts these Middle East financiers to become involved. Even more so if they have vacant possession, so it's up to all buyers not to walk away from their investments or give up their contracts in any scam.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


 Yes, whether it is a chinese or Middle Eastern or any other investor, the due diligence they do will most likely be the same if done properly - namely identify assets and liabilities. You are right in that monies paid to others such as agents or fees etc may be difficult to trace and recover. So the only think left is the land and other tangible assets which is not difficult to quantify. For example, such land plots in Marsa Alam will have a residual value as they already have planning permission. But any investors will weigh this against other hidden liabilities (such investors like me and others). So I see no way any smart investor will pay a huge amount to take on this project until the legal case is settled by the courts. Anything else is pure fantasy. I therefore think that the MABR project value or net asset value is no more than eur 5-10 million as that is what was put in to buy the and existing infrastructure. Let us not forget that we know that around 550 investors gave eur 20-25 million to IPI and it is quite likely that only less than half found itself into El Sery's coffers. It seems highly unlikely IPI put in their own capital at all. So I just cannot see how anyone can value the company at more than eur10 million unless more was actually put in from the end-investors 20million or so. The biggest mistake IPI made was turn this project into a fancy time share scam called pure-wow and place too high an artificial value on this new concept compared to the original plan.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

But everyone forgets that the profits come from the end product when it all runs like a top class hotel and residential resort, not just the skimmed initial stakes from the start. And of course it is only half sold so the remainder is just as profitable a risk as at the very start.

Then of course there are the balances of fees remaining, however it does not matter whether it is a hotel, pure wellness centre, residential Or time-share the real money making is in the management of the completed resort.... 

Why do you think all the other International Hoteliers like Hilton, Marriot, Steigenberger etc. all get involved in hotel building? It's about location location location..


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> But everyone forgets that the profits come from the end product when it all runs like a top class hotel and residential resort, not just the skimmed initial stakes from the start. And of course it is only half sold so the remainder is just as profitable a risk as at the very start.
> 
> Then of course there are the balances of fees remaining, however it does not matter whether it is a hotel, pure wellness centre, residential Or time-share the real money making is in the management of the completed resort....
> 
> Why do you think all the other International Hoteliers like Hilton, Marriot, Steigenberger etc. all get involved in hotel building? It's about location location location..
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Yes it all about location, location and location as they say in real estate folklore. But then again, anyone thinking like the hilt in etc will not only have deep pockets but a viable plan and most critically a track record and a lot of experience as the bulk of the retune would be made on the operation side. IPI/El Sery had neither. They were some stupid amateurs without any experience in the hotel industry. Given the problems in Egypt and the problems with financings etc it would have been better to make the resort into some sort of a 3star/4 star type with probably half the amount of investment needed than this utopian vision of the pure wow concept which has no existing operation or track record to speak of except one of making silly videos that even a teenager can make with some equipment


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Absolutely... And for the readers let me remind them that Egypt's visitors come for the sun and sea (corals and marine-life) not to meet Egyptians with their hassle, so the locations are perfect...

IPI had a track record and failed with its Zafarana partnership and that experience should not have been duplicated with MABR since they were supposedly the only partner in the land and development. However it was too huge a task. Proportioning half to an Italian marketing company was their first mistake but the client contract fiascos were diabolical so I pulled out selling when realising these were junk. 

It all went downhill when the financial markets crashed. Silly marketing hype didn't work because not all buyers wanted "time-share" however a resort filled with any type of visitor would have been better than a ghost resort with no management.


Eco Mariner.


----------



## realinvestor

Eco-Mariner said:


> Absolutely... And for the readers let me remind them that Egypt's visitors come for the sun and sea (corals and marine-life) not to meet Egyptians with their hassle, so the locations are perfect...
> 
> IPI had a track record and failed with its Zafarana partnership and that experience should not have been duplicated with MABR since they were supposedly the only partner in the land and development. However it was too huge a task. Proportioning half to an Italian marketing company was their first mistake but the client contract fiascos were diabolical so I pulled out selling when realising these were junk.
> 
> It all went downhill when the financial markets crashed. Silly marketing hype didn't work because not all buyers wanted "time-share" however a resort filled with any type of visitor would have been better than a ghost resort with no management.
> 
> 
> Eco Mariner.


Unfortunately, I do not think that the problems lies with the Italian marketing company. The real problem is that IPI was a marketing company and had virtually no experience dealing with the construction side/hotel management business and they focused too much on false advertising and were completely stupid on the construction side. In reality, they thought that investors will flock to them en masse. What they should have done is downsize and try to finish phase 1 in a more limited way and investors would still own/possess a 3-star apartment. But of course there were quite a few big shark-mouths to feed via the change to the pure-wow and that mean that needed even more capital as they tried to go for an utopian version of a he alt-based time share scam. Similarly in Zafarana they pocketed 50% of the profit they investors all put in and all that was was for some dodgy marketing nd a scam. the real business and financial risks were imposed upon EMR, their egyptian partner.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Precisely.


----------



## tomnellyuk

realinvestor said:


> Unfortunately, I do not think that the problems lies with the Italian marketing company. The real problem is that IPI was a marketing company and had virtually no experience dealing with the construction side/hotel management business and they focused too much on false advertising and were completely stupid on the construction side. In reality, they thought that investors will flock to them en masse. What they should have done is downsize and try to finish phase 1 in a more limited way and investors would still own/possess a 3-star apartment. But of course there were quite a few big shark-mouths to feed via the change to the pure-wow and that mean that needed even more capital as they tried to go for an utopian version of a he alt-based time share scam. Similarly in Zafarana they pocketed 50% of the profit they investors all put in and all that was was for some dodgy marketing nd a scam. the real business and financial risks were imposed upon EMR, their egyptian partner.


Hi all,

When I paid for an apartment in 2008 I also paid the extra money for the Bank backed rent guarantee, I've not yet tried to cash it in as the 5 years have not yet passed. Has anybody else paid for this bank guarantee? Was it just another scam?
Has anybody got any hope in the resort ever being finished?

All the best

Tom


----------



## Dark_Ninja

tomnellyuk said:


> Hi all,
> 
> When I paid for an apartment in 2008 I also paid the extra money for the Bank backed rent guarantee, I've not yet tried to cash it in as the 5 years have not yet passed. Has anybody else paid for this bank guarantee? Was it just another scam?
> Has anybody got any hope in the resort ever being finished?
> 
> All the best
> 
> Tom


Tom --this is legitimate and some of the people I know have written
to ABM AMRO and they are being paid out. You have to ask for it from them and they will start to pay up.


----------



## realinvestor

Dark_Ninja said:


> Tom --this is legitimate and some of the people I know have written
> to ABM AMRO and they are being paid out. You have to ask for it from them and they will start to pay up.


Hi Tom,

Yes, you can claim that for every year since you were due and ABN are paying it and they SHOULD. Please write to the address that was son your bank guarantee and specify what you were due for each year and be specific. Also if I were you, I would send the letter both by email and also by recorded delivery.


----------



## pompeycarl

Yep I'm back on. Sorry I haven't been around for a while. 

What do you want to know SJH11?


----------



## SJH11

pompeycarl said:


> Yep I'm back on. Sorry I haven't been around for a while.
> 
> What do you want to know SJH11?


You mentioned a while back employing a solicitor in Holland. Did you do that and how did you get on?


----------



## pompeycarl

Indeed I did SJH11. In January 2012 we instructed a Dutch lawyer partnership to review the contract and see if they could recover the money from the Escrow Agent. As the sales contract is governed by Cairo Law, their conclusion was to enlist the help of an Egyptian Lawyer, which at this present time we have not done. In April 2012, they also sent letters to El Sery, IPI International Property Investors MABR B.V., & Stichting Derdengelden MABR requesting they return our funds. Our lawyers did not get a formal response and our money has not been returned. They are not taking this matter any further unless we enlist an Egyptian lawyer.

In March 2012, we received correspondence from El Sery, stating a new completion date of 31st December 2014. This was based on them getting a financial backer. Note - the letter was signed by Mr. ERIC MAAN.

In August 2012, we received correspondence from El Sery, stating that Mr. Eric Maan resigned as CEO of El Sery.

In September 2012 we received correspondence from El Sery, stating that they are still in negotiations with a financial backer and maybe seeking a backer from China!!!! 

During this time I had various e-mail discussions with Mr. Eric Maan, the ex-CEO of El Sery, I asked him why nobody had responded to the letters sent by Dutch lawyers. He advised me that the sales contract had nothing to do with El Sery, but solely with IPI International Property Investors MABR B.V. There is no working e-mail address or telephone no. for IPI International Property Investors MABR B.V. Mr. Maan did however give me some further information: Mr. Jurgen Oddens is the CEO of IPI International Property Investors MABR B.V. The company lawyer for IPI International Property Investors MABR B.V. is Mr. Axel de Groot of Boddaert Verweel Advocaten. In addition, he also stated IPI International Property Investors MABR B.V. is still operating - it is only IPI Group BV that has gone bankrupt. 

Some more information I found out: In June 2012 we received, from Anthony Seddon (our UK lawyer when we first purchased the property), a copy of the Escrow bank statement for Stichting Derdengelden IPI held at AMN Ambro bank. Please note that the IBAN account no. is not the same as stated on the original invoice or that of the original sales contract. Please also note that the name on the bottom of the statement is E. Maan (CEO of El Sery). How can the same man be CEO of El Sery and also be sole signatory of the Escrow account? Why has the account number changed?

Lastly, we have recently approached a UK company specialising in the recovery of problematic international property investment. They are at present reviewing the contracts and other history and will provide us with a free viability report which will assess the strength of the case. We can then decide if legal proceedings should go ahead. Apparently they deal with everything and have experts and legal representatives in various locations throughout the investment world. When we have this report and decided how to proceed I will let you know. This is something we could possibly do on masse. It would be handy if someone on this forum starts collecting a list of the contact details of investors in the Pure Wow Wellbeing Resort (Marsa Alam). If this is the way forward then it could possibly benefit everybody.


----------



## faithless10

does any body have any new information on resort/site mabr/pure ?


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## SJH11

Faithless, are you in contact with other Irish buyers?


----------



## Dark_Ninja

Post a few more specific questions and we will PM you to find some more info.


----------



## faithless10

SJH11 said:


> Faithless, are you in contact with other Irish buyers?


 no , why do you ask ? do you have any news


----------



## SJH11

Which sales agent did you buy through? I might have some news for you.


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## faithless10

SJH11 said:


> Which sales agent did you buy through? I might have some news for you.


stark enterprize u k


----------



## realinvestor

This is interesting. The two principals of Stark actually became global managers at IPI and after they left Stark, they worked for IPI in Netherlands. You should really try to contact them as they were part of IPI and should be held liable as they were insiders. Under normal circumstances, most agents are stand-alone entities and presumably did nothing illegal in selling these properties. One could argue that agents cam be responsible but under UK law, unless they deliberately misled investors and were part of a cover IPI operation only then can they be held liable. But with Stark they seem to be the main agents of IPI and could have a lot to tell us. Maybe you can get in touch with them if they still have a UK office


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## faithless10

maybe all of us investors should finish off the building ourselfs a few thousand euro each , i have building knowage . try any thing at this stage does anybody have any recent news ??? ///////////////////////////////F10................


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## SJH11

Faithless, I have sent you a Personal Message


----------



## shieldsportia

I've just found this thread when looking for info on MABR. We're really concerned at lack of info.Has anyone managed to secure a refund?


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## SJH11

Nobody has received a refund. It looks like a legal fight in Egypt and / or Holland.


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## jogoodac

SJH11 said:


> Nobody has received a refund. It looks like a legal fight in Egypt and / or Holland.


If there's to be a legal fight in Egypt / Holland, is it to be a class action? It makes sense for any legal recourse to be a group undertaking of all affected investors who wish to pursue this route. Personally, I am depleted of patience. I was expecting to have to be patient whilst the apartment was being constructed and eventualy delivered. However, this situation has worn my patience very thin indeed and I am becoming very angry, mostly due to having to second guess what on earth is happening / not happening. Has anyonre heard anything new recently? All I think about is that someone has got my money and I am quite probably never going to see a return on my investment.


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## SJH11

Who did you buy from? Which agent did you use?


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## jogoodac

SJH11 said:


> Who did you buy from? Which agent did you use?


We bought through Knight Knox International in Manchester. They are now based in Salford Quays. I did contact them for advice / support when the problem first surfaced but disappointingly I never heard back.


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## SJH11

I wonder why you never heard back!! They are one of the few sales agents who are still in operation. Did you have a bank-backed guarantee through ABN Amro?


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## jogoodac

SJH11 said:


> I wonder why you never heard back!! They are one of the few sales agents who are still in operation. Did you have a bank-backed guarantee through ABN Amro?


I'll check my paper work but as far as I know we did have a bank-backed guerantee through ABN Amro. I will try contacting Knight Knox again. It felt like they have dropped Marsa Alam and us like a hot potato. I looked on their website today and there is no sign of anything to do with Marsa Alam at all. At the moment there are 9 properties / developments for sale in Sharm and Hurgada but nothing further south.


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## SJH11

If you had a bank backed guarantee through ABN Amro you must write to them because they will pay it. They won't contact you though. What a great bank they are.


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## jogoodac

SJH11 said:


> If you had a bank backed guarantee through ABN Amro you must write to them because they will pay it. They won't contact you though. What a great bank they are.


Thanks, I'll look into doing that as soon as possible.


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## SJH11

I have sent you a PM


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## skn4

Hello All,

Ive just been reading through the pages and pages of posts to bring myself upto speed. Needless to say im absolutely gutted with the whole situation and the thought of losing all my hard earned money in this investment.

I am based in the Wirral Area of the UK and was wondering if there was anyone else nearby in the same position as myself.

Just to give a bit of background info.....

I bought a 2 bed apartment in June 2008 with the Furniture pack option. I took out the developer funded mortgage with a 5yr guaranteed rental agreement. 

The agent I used was INTERLINK PROPERTIES and my contact there was a Sue Lovett. My last correspondence with her was in July 2010 when i had to pay my 2nd mortgage instalment of 5510 Euros ( minus a Year 1 rental guarantee of 2397 Euros ). Since then I have not had any correspondence or contact regarding my apartment except for the odd update newsletter from the aftersales team.

I received my purchase agreement contract ( all in English only ) which have been signed and stamped by IPI and Stichting derdengelden IPI. However I have not received any other form of documents or paperwork such as official deeds or property certificates in Egyptian and English.

With regards to the Bank backed guarantee I am not sure if I have got this or not ( is this the same as the guaranteed rental payments?). How and what is the process to see if i can pursue a bank backed gurantee?

Thanks in advance for any feedback and comments.


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## SJH11

Hi, no the rental guarantee is not the same as the Bank guarantee. So you need to check your contract specifically for the Bank Guarantee with ABN Amro. Be careful though as all contracts mention ABN Amro , as they held the escrow account. I say 'held' as it seems to have disappeared.
Sue Lovett actually worked for IPI. Where are Interlink based? Are they still in existence?


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## SJH11

shieldsportia said:


> I've just found this thread when looking for info on MABR. We're really concerned at lack of info.Has anyone managed to secure a refund?


Shieldsportia, are you still here?


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## Eco-Mariner

Would all new members please post more comments on here (5 at least) and we can send you private messages to keep you informed.


Eco-Mariner.


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## skn4

SJH11 said:


> Hi, no the rental guarantee is not the same as the Bank guarantee. So you need to check your contract specifically for the Bank Guarantee with ABN Amro. Be careful though as all contracts mention ABN Amro , as they held the escrow account. I say 'held' as it seems to have disappeared.
> Sue Lovett actually worked for IPI. Where are Interlink based? Are they still in existence?


Hi SJH11,

Looking through my paperwork the only one i seem to have is the original purchase agreement contract. If the ABN AMRO Bank guarantee is a seperate document then i must not have it. :-(

Sorry yes you are correct looking back through my correspondance Sue Lovett did actually work for IPI...my mix up!

I have tried to call Interlink on the U.K office number i had for them at the time ( an 0845 no. ). Unfortunately the line seems to be dead. I believe they are a Cyprus based company looking at the interlink properties website.


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## skn4

Eco-Mariner said:


> Would all new members please post more comments on here (5 at least) and we can send you private messages to keep you informed.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Hi Eco-Mariner,

Yes please could you keep me informed with any updates and helpful info. I will try and post some more comments.

thanks


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## SJH11

skn4 said:


> Hi SJH11,
> 
> Looking through my paperwork the only one i seem to have is the original purchase agreement contract. If the ABN AMRO Bank guarantee is a seperate document then i must not have it. :-(
> 
> Sorry yes you are correct looking back through my correspondance Sue Lovett did actually work for IPI...my mix up!
> 
> I have tried to call Interlink on the U.K office number i had for them at the time ( an 0845 no. ). Unfortunately the line seems to be dead. I believe they are a Cyprus based company looking at the interlink properties website.


I have no idea what the bank guarantee looks like as I never had it. Everyone has completely different contracts. Does yours mention Egyptian courts or just Dutch courts or a mixture of both?


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## Shania

Hi,

I have just read through the thread. I am in a similar situation, having bought an off-plan property in Hurghada in 2010 “Palme Royale”. 

A few weeks ago I received a phone call from the project manager and agent that the project would not be built (I already knew that ) and that the money which I had paid into an escrow account in Austria, was gone. 

On 16th Oct. 2012 “pompeycarl” posted “_we have recently approached a UK company specialising in the recovery of problematic international property investment_”. 

Could someone please tell me the name of the company as I would really like to get in touch with them to look my situation.

Thank you!


----------



## skn4

SJH11 said:


> I have no idea what the bank guarantee looks like as I never had it. Everyone has completely different contracts. Does yours mention Egyptian courts or just Dutch courts or a mixture of both?


My Purchase Agreement document states.....

"This contract is governed under the laws of The Netherlands and any dispute arising in relation to this contract will be referred to the courts in The Netherlands."

So is this good or bad? The whole document is in English only.


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## SJH11

Yours is one of the earlier contracts. You are not alone. But it could be construed as further evidence of the developers' intention to defraud from the outset. A group of buyers discovered that contracts written in languages other than Arabic were invalid in Egypt. So they got their contracts translated into Arabic. The developers didn't bother to tell the rest of us this. I am in touch with an Egyptian lawyer who says that none of our contracts are valid anyway. But he also says this need not be a problem as we have proof of payment for our units. But we still need to get signature validity in the courts in Egypt. There is also the possibility of legal action for fraud. 

We are also pursuing action with the Dutch financial authorities regarding the money stolen from the escrow.


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## skn4

SJH11 said:


> Yours is one of the earlier contracts. You are not alone. But it could be construed as further evidence of the developers' intention to defraud from the outset. A group of buyers discovered that contracts written in languages other than Arabic were invalid in Egypt. So they got their contracts translated into Arabic. The developers didn't bother to tell the rest of us this. I am in touch with an Egyptian lawyer who says that none of our contracts are valid anyway. But he also says this need not be a problem as we have proof of payment for our units. But we still need to get signature validity in the courts in Egypt. There is also the possibility of legal action for fraud.
> 
> We are also pursuing action with the Dutch financial authorities regarding the money stolen from the escrow.


Yes i was involved very early on in the marsa alam beach resort investment, am very sad to hear my contracts are basically worthless!

You mention 'we' with regards to pursuing action. Are you part of a consortium or just a few fellow investors clubbing together? I am feeling very alone in all of this and would like to be part of a group of people in the same position as me. If not just for moral support and keeping up to date with events.


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## Eco-Mariner

These facebook groups SJH mentioned were created to keep victims focussed on a route to salvage their investments. The more that join us the better the chances of success.

This Expat forum was the platform and appreciates the moderators of it airing our views over the last two years. Many thanks.


Eco-Mariner.


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## shieldsportia

Hi
still here, any updates?


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## shieldsportia

SJH11 said:


> There are a couple of MABR groups titled:
> 
> “Marsa Alam Beach Resort (MABR) / Pure WoW Wellbeing buyers”
> and
> “Pure Wow Wellbeing Resort – (MABR)” .
> 
> We have recently got quotes from some lawyers in Egypt. Some buyers are taking action with GIC Legal. This is a European law firm who contacted as many of us as possible. They are expensive and are just acting as a middle man by employing an Egyptian solicitor. We were sceptical as to how they got hold of our email addresses. So we decided to cut them out and go straight to Egyptian lawyers.
> 
> I think some will be starting action in a couple of weeks. Send me a PM for details.


hi
new to this forum how do i pm you
obviously am very interested in joining forces with other MABR investors


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## SJH11

Can you tell us a bit more about your contract so that we can try to help


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## shieldsportia

will have to go and dig out contract and re-read it. basically we origionaly signed for a 2 bed apartment and when things went on for so long and the sterling exchange rate dropped we decided we couldn't afford this and changed to a 1 bed studio instead. I have both the contracts still and am pretty certain at least one is in arabic. used escapes2 as agent.


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## shieldsportia

we were using the stage payment option and are quite a bit "in the hole" now. Really wish we'd taken the refund option instead!


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## Eco-Mariner

New members, please keep posts on here coming till at least 5 are printed, then we can assist you privately by clicking on your names and messaging you directly. Thanks.


Eco-Mariner


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## shieldsportia

Eco-Mariner said:


> New members, please keep posts on here coming till at least 5 are printed, then we can assist you privately by clicking on your names and messaging you directly. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


thanks for help in getting started. i'd welcome a pm


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## SJH11

shieldsportia said:


> thanks for help in getting started. i'd welcome a pm


Have sent you a pm


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## Frammy

*new member*

We have just found this forum and while it is good to know we are not alone, we are obviously worried. If anyone can give more info on what is going on we would be grateful


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## Dark_Ninja

Post at least 5 times and we will pm you. There are many of us that have got together meeting on this forum but as things have progressed we tend to post in a different location!


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## Frammy

*new member*

Thanks for replying. I will keep posting messages


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## Frammy

Happy new year to all fellow worriers


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## Frammy

Lets hope for some positive news in the new year


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## Cliff123

Frammy said:


> Lets hope for some positive news in the new year


Happy new year Frammy and all the MABR investors. Let's all hope for a positive outcome in 2013
One or two more posts and someone from the group will contact you
Cliff


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## Frammy

Thanks for your reply, should be there soon.


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## Frammy

good to know we are not alone


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## faithless10

does any body have any new info on mrbr please


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## timelord1951

i am a new member who has invested in the mabra site marsa alam and am looking for an update on any develoments


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## sandcastles

hi im new to the site and have been reading the different threads i bought 2bed in mabr and im looking for help what to do?


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## Eco-Mariner

New members, will you kindly read all posts from the start of these pages and add yourself to the facebook action group :- Marsa Alam Beach Resort (MABR) / Pure WoW Wellbeing to see what is happening there.

It is pointless to keep repeating the news on here.
Then after you have made at leat 6 postings on this forum, each can access members by private messages to keep updated.


Eco-Mariner.


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## sandcastles

has anybody heard more about G.I.C. legal and their offer to represent MABR investors?


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## Eco-Mariner

... post more messages and we can tell you about these issues privately.


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## sandcastles

Thanks, will do.


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## timelord1951

well another new year and still no news of new investors to be able to complete the build


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## sandcastles

unfortunately the signs are not encouraging but hopefully something can be done.


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## sandcastles

Are there any group of investors getting legal advice and if so how is it going?


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## sandcastles

Has anybody gone to ABN AMRO with their bank guarantee for their loss of rent?


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## timelord1951

there is an interested parties page on facebook of which i am in contact


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## realinvestor

sandcastles said:


> Has anybody gone to ABN AMRO with their bank guarantee for their loss of rent?


yes, you can email ABN AMRO with all your details and your guarantee number and they should pay. You may need to be persistent as I know someone has not got the full amount and are disputing the numbers and interpretation of the guarantee.


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## timelord1951

can you give more details


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## timelord1951

thank you for taking the time to respond so promtly


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## K155Rusty

Hello,

Hi another new member on board. Apartment purchased in full, June 2008. Phase 1. I live in Shropshire/West Midlands. The agent I purchased through were M&N Interlink Investments Ltd. I have requested to join the facebook group.
Really interested to hear what investors course of action.

Thanks


----------



## timelord1951

has anyone received any recent news letters as i used to get one every month


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## clib69

Hello.New member,purchased 1bed app MABR freehold July 08,resident South Yorkshire.Agent and myself unable to receive info or response from Elsery.Would like to join with other members,appreciate any help.Thankyou.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

As with others who joined action groups, if you can make about 6 small posts on here, members can then private message you with more help.


Eco-Mariner.


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## timelord1951

hello i purchased the same and virtually at the same time there are a group of likewise interested investors on facebook


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## clib69

Thanks for response,will keep posts coming.


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## SJH11

clib69 - Who is your agent?


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## clib69

Sapphire Spanish Homes,an independent sole trader local to myself.Have just put forward communicatioin to Elsery aftersales requesting info on current situation, as I am sure many other investors have.Will post outcome if any.


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## SJH11

clib69 said:


> Sapphire Spanish Homes,an independent sole trader local to myself.Have just put forward communicatioin to Elsery aftersales requesting info on current situation, as I am sure many other investors have.Will post outcome if any.


I doubt you will get any response from El Sery. They stopped answering emails several months ago. I think they have shut up shop after squandering our money. We now need to track down the culprits.


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## clib69

Telephoned yesterday,no connection.


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## clib69

Thankyou for your communication SJH11 it is much appreciated.


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## SJH11

Have pm'd you as there is a lot of confidential info that can't be posted


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## timelord1951

would you like to share this information with me


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## SJH11

Indeed this is a case for Europol. 

We have IPI and El Sery based in Holland, Pure Wow Wellbeing Resorts based in Spain, Murcia Furniture based in Spain and Lindner Hotels based in Germany. 

And we have six Dutch nationals who appear to have had a hand in perpetrating this fraud / theft/ misappropriation -

We also have a questionable due diligence report produced by Sein the UK. 



There are 596 buyers who were duped and they come from countries which include UK, Italy, Holland, Ireland, Germany, Latvia and Lithuania. 

How do we get Europol involved? Is it as case of filing complaints with our local national police forces and lobbying our Euro Members of Parliament?


----------



## MaidenScotland

This forum is only to help you make contact with other buyers who are in the same predicament

If you continue to name names, etc I will close and delete the thread in its entirety


----------



## Joanne Pavitt

Hello

I am an investor in the Marsa Alam Beach Resort/Pure WoW Wellbeing Resort since 2008. I have just found this site. I would be very grateful for any help regarding how I can get information as I have had no communication from anyone since May 2012.

Thank you


----------



## timelord1951

there are a group of likewise interested investors on facebook


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## faithless10

does any-one have any good ideas, as i dont know what to do, this scam has ruined me,,,, does anybody think we will ever see the end of this mess ?


----------



## MaidenScotland

faithless10 said:


> does any-one have any good ideas, as i dont know what to do, this scam has ruined me,,,, does anybody think we will ever see the end of this mess ?




Sorry to hear that, has it ruined you financially or in having faith


----------



## Joanne Pavitt

Thank you. I will try to join the group


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## realinvestor

I have been told by someone with inside knowledge of the situation regarding the sudden departure of Eric Maan as El sery CEO that a crucial factor was the fact that El Sery has not filed the annual accounts with the Egyptian authorities and that this could amount to a very serious criminal violation. Egyptian company law dictates that annual accounts have to be audited by an Egyptian auditor and filed annual showing both the balance sheet and Profit & Loss accounts. El sery's website is now taken off and for a long time there have been no IPI persons or European staff. This may mean that both Jurgen and Eric would now fear to step on Egyptian soil for the serious possibility of being convicted of breaking Egyptian law. This will of course have serious implications for Zafarana as well


----------



## Mary Mary

Hello I am new to this site.
I have bought apartment 1FS14E.
I have read that there is a possibility of getting some of my money back.
If this is correct how do I go about it?


----------



## Mary Mary

SJH11 said:


> clib69 - Who is your agent?


Hi I am a newbi, my broker was M&N Interlink Investments Ltd. do you know anything about them?


----------



## Mary Mary

please help


----------



## Mary Mary

hi there


----------



## Mary Mary

el sery


----------



## Mary Mary

need help


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## faithless10

Mary Mary said:


> Hello I am new to this site.
> I have bought apartment 1FS14E.
> I have read that there is a possibility of getting some of my money back.
> If this is correct how do I go about it?


hello mary, alan here , i bought apt no ifs15e... we will be neibours if this complex is ever finished . i think if you contact abn ambro you might have some joy, let me know how you get on mary ..... best of luck alan ireland


----------



## Mary Mary

*Elsery*



faithless10 said:


> hello mary, alan here , i bought apt no ifs15e... we will be neibours if this complex is ever finished . i think if you contact abn ambro you might have some joy, let me know how you get on mary ..... best of luck alan ireland


Thanks for the info. I will try to contact abn ambro and see what happens. I will post her if I get any luck


----------



## mfctone

Hi
I am a newby here. I own a property in Marsa Alam, and desperately need advice on all aspects of what I should and should not do regarding situation out there.
I too have received correspondence from GIC but have not as yet given any response to them.
Seemed a bit suspicious they were asking for power of attorney. Also asking for 1750 pounds down payment plus the same amount again to follow.
Please help.
Tony


----------



## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hi Tony,

Welcome to the forum. I am also the owner of a property in Marsa Alam. I used the service of GIC and so far, pretty happy by their services and level of communication.

They need a power of attorney to be able to represent us in Egypt in front of the Court in Egypt.

For the fees I do not have the same figures, They charged me 1800 Euros. I paid half of it and they will charge the second half when they would obtain the reference number of our case from the Court.



Malcolm


----------



## mfctone

Hi, Malcolm, Thanks for replying to my message. I must have read the message wrong from GIC, its a thousand euros now and 800 when it goes to court. Do you know of anyone else in our situation Malcolm, GIC want me to get some paper work done in the UK and send it forward to them, was that the same for you, thanks again, Malcolm, Tony.


----------



## Worried MABR

*What's Happening?*

Hi we also invested in Marsa Alam,

We have not heard anything from ipi-elsery since May last year. The web sites are no longer working and we are now getting very worried about our investment.

Can someone shed any light on the matter?????:fingerscrossed:


----------



## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hello Tony,

As far as I know, GIC is representing 70 or 80 investors. For what concern the power of attorney, we have done it as well it is compulsory to do it, if you want to give them the faculty to represent you in front of the court.

Take care


----------



## faithless10

i am also very very worried about this development / site ,,,,,,,,,,,,, i think we should call abn ambro as this bank knows more than we do


----------



## realinvestor

Fellow MABR investors

There have been a few new members here which is nice to see. We should all be nervous on MABR and people should know the facts as well. IPI international property investors bv ( he Zafarana arm for IPI) has filed for bankruptcy last week. This was after IPI failed to pay a UK investor who successfully sue them in Netherlands. So the ripple effect for MABR means that IPI is so much weakend that investors need to take some action. To the extent that even the former escrow manager admitted to the fraud and malpractices at IPI/escrow fund, it is likely that not much can be recovered from Netherlands and one of the few ways is to make an investor claim on the El sery assets via taking legal action in Egypt as the El sery assets there are likely worth a few million euros. For those new to the forum there are two separate firms representing investors and the tactics used by both would be similar in that they will seek to authenticate investors contracts in Egypt so that a first claim on El sery assets can be made by these investors. Unless investors take some sort of action - either joining one of the two legal suits or perhaps even seeking help from other firms in Egypt - only then will some sort of a recovery be possible. El sery offices are pretty much closed down and neither they nor IPI have written to their investors for ages and with one of the lawsuits already seeking a criminal investigation, the IPI/El sery individuals will think hard before they even step on Egyptian soil.


----------



## faithless10

does anyone have any news ?


----------



## bolin3876

Has anyone got any updates,about our project.


----------



## Worried MABR

Hi realinvestor, does this mean that there might be a hope of getting any investment made back? what would you recommend as the next step


----------



## Worried MABR

Is there any chance another investor will buy the project and investors?


----------



## chriscross34

Hi, Im chris i invested in 2 bed appt and like everyone on here despite the set back last year in Egypt thought by now things would recover. Sounds like mis-management on a grand scale. I would be grateful which companies and/or legal partners other than GIC can people recommend.

In addition, of the advice people have received so far, have the legal advisors given any indication that we would be successful in recovering all if not part of our investment.

What is Jurgens, the IPI CEO doing?

Chris


----------



## Worried MABR

chriscross34 said:


> Hi, Im chris i invested in 2 bed appt and like everyone on here despite the set back last year in Egypt thought by now things would recover. Sounds like mis-management on a grand scale. I would be grateful which companies and/or legal partners other than GIC can people recommend.
> 
> In addition, of the advice people have received so far, have the legal advisors given any indication that we would be successful in recovering all if not part of our investment.
> 
> What is Jurgens, the IPI CEO doing?
> 
> Chris


Hi Chris, Yes I thinks some guidance is needed for us investors that trusted that everything would be ok and the project would get completed when issues in egypt calmed down


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## ConcernedKeith

*Advise please*

Like many others I was wary of firms offering to act on my behalf in exchange for money - throwing good money after bad came to mind - and also hoped that as the political situation became more stable then something would happen. Has anyone any news on what is happening at the resort and is the money I and others have invested a complete write off? Any help is gratefully appreciated.


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## SJH11

chriscross34 said:


> What is Jurgens, the IPI CEO doing?


Jurgen Oddens is busy setting up other companies in Spain (Notwerk SA Murcia) and Holland (Oddens Holdings BV).


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## SJH11

He is setting up new companies... all while being investigated for "Paulianeus" by the Dutch liquidator of the IPI and El Sery companies.


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## Capri259

*can anyone advise*

Hi everyone,
We paid a purchase contract through a solicitor in London to buy a 2 bed garden apartment at Marsa Alam Beach resort. 
We don't know what to do now, the options seem to be:
Do nothing and hope a new investor will buy and complete - v unlikely.
Demand our money back with interest from our solicitor/threaten them with court action if they don't pay up (the solicitor has indemnity insurance).
Get the purchase contract rewritten from IPI into El Sery (as the developer name IPI is no longer registered) and then wait to see what happens - what's the point? Is the vital?

Can anyone advise if they have been successful in getting their purchase money back or had the contract converted and how to go about it.

Hope to hear from you.


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## Eco-Mariner

If you look back through various posts you may find the route others are going through. Alternatively, look in the Facebook groups with MABR in the titles and join in discussions.

There are interesting things going on behind the scenes.


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## SJH11

No point in getting the contract converted as El Sery are bankrupt.


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## MALCOLMINTHEMIDDLE27

Hello,

My wife and I are using the services of GIC Legal. its an international Firm with a branch in Hurgada. The procedure is still pending, but everything is progressing smoothly. Hope this can help. 

Malcolm


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## Antonij

*Rino*

Hello, I am a new member. I also invested in MBR. My property is 1CF11B. As I understand the conversation of investors moved into facebook. I would like to join this conversation. Can somebody help me to find this FB groupe?


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## Eco-Mariner

Yes.... Open any group with the name Marsa Alam and ask to join. I moderate two.


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## ehabdahroug

Dear Mr

i hope you are well it have been so long i did not hereabout the the project ,,, also I need information about the delivery date . pls advise for the above mentioned subject Thanks in advance for yr kind attention 

Ehab Dahroug (1EF27D)


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## Eco-Mariner

The MABR project has stopped completely Ehab.
If you have a Facebook account look up all the groups with Marsa Alam Beach Resort titles and you will see lots of information on how to join other owners in their claims for compensation and how they are securing their purchased units.

Eco-Mariner


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## ehabdahroug

hello 
I did not find group with the name Marsa Alam 

thanks for advice 

ehab


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## Lisajayne1

I had all but given up on our 2 bed apartment. Just found this thread & hope someone can help me get up to date please! The only Facebook page I can find is Italian ?? Please advise 
Regards 
Lisa & mark LYNCH


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## Lisajayne1

IGF02E Was purchased through an English agent called property matters overseas 
Had lots of letters from GIC but I like a few others thought it was throwing good money after bad so never replied


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## Lisajayne1

I can not find the group on fb could someone please point me in the right direction 
Many thanks


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## Lisajayne1

I have been trying to find Facebook group or any information on MABR. 
please can you help! 
Have you any further information? 
Kind regards 
Mr & Mrs Lynch


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## Worried MABR

*Any Further Information*

Hi

Has anyone had any luck with gaining any moneys owed back? or has the resort restarted building?

any information would be great

many thanks


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## Worried MABR

Worried MABR said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with gaining any moneys owed back? or has the resort restarted building?
> 
> any information would be great
> 
> many thanks


Just found this on internet

On 20-10-2017, the bankruptcy report with reference 14_nho_14_290_F_V_07 was published, this report was drawn up by the bankruptcy trustee regarding the bankruptcy of Ipi International Property Investors Mabr BV in Heerhugowaard. Only registered subscribers of Faillissementsverslagen.com have access to the full details of the file.


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## Ethicranger

Worried MABR said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with gaining any moneys owed back? or has the resort restarted building?
> 
> any information would be great
> 
> many thanks


Anybody knows the latest people to contact? I am not getting feedback lately. 
PM your email please as well, so I can ad response if I find something . 
Feliz Navidad from Costa Rica (ex IRL, ex LT)


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## luca_savi

Hi all,as far as i know ,the penal prosecution has ended with conviction of IPI. But the civil trial is still far from the end


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