# Residencia



## Ruthdenia1964 (Mar 2, 2021)

Hi
I’ve just applied for my TIE & was refused it because I didn’t have a historic padrón. I didn’t know I had to apply for one all the time. I have a current one. It’s crazy as I have lots of proof of living in Spain last year to prove my residency. I have doctors appointments, petrol receipts, bank statements etc. My son has been enrolled in the school system for the whole of 2020 & still they refused my residency just because I don’t have a historic padrón. I don’t think they even looked at the other documents. Has anybody else been rejected & appealed & won. My lawyers went through the Alicante immigration office. It’s crazy


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

This is not the first time I've heard of this in fact there have been numerous reports of people being turned down because their padrons are dated 2021 and not 2020, I've not heard of any outcomes of appeals but then the Spanish legal system is not noted for it's alacrity so that's no surprise.

The obvious question has to be if you've been living here long enough to have had a child "in the school system for the whole of 2020" why didn't you legalise your situation before now, e.g. 3 months after your arrival, difficult to claim to not have had time and ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

The terms of the WA stay that those who have been 'legally' living in Spain before Jan 1st. qualify for residency, simply being here is not enough. "Not irregularly in Spain" is how they term it and 'irregularly' would appear to describe your situation.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who have been content to sit on their hands, or convinced themselves that the changes Brexit has heralded are nothing to do with them, but are now realising their error.

As an aside, I freely admit to having less than zero knowledge or experience of the school system here but given the Spanish love of bureaucracy I can't help but wonder how one gets a child into the school system without proof of residence?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

OP's child may be at a private school so no residency documents were needed?


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## Ruthdenia1964 (Mar 2, 2021)

Joppa said:


> OP's child may be at a private school so no residency documents were needed?


Exactly my child is in a private school system


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Ive heard of a few people being refused as it appears that Alicante are ruling that you should have started your application before the 31st Dec and have supplied all relevant dated documents for 2020. Not living here as agreed in the WA.

While I sympathise over the result you have been given. However
Technically you should have made your application after having being here living as a resident after 3 months. 

If you went through a firm of solicitors, it was made clear to all from around july last year that you must provide a Padron dated less than 3 months before the application. I questioned this in August when we arrived and was told we had to be on it. In fact it was all over the local newspapers because you are not supposed to be on the padron unless resident, yet you couldnt apply unless you were on. 
Im assuming you can appeal and if so I would get information from the private school, your medical cert and I would possibly try going to your town hall with these and see if they can provide one retrospectively. Not sure if thats allowed but its worth a try.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Firstly, you have 10 days to appeal. Your lawyer should know this. 

Just go back to the ayto. for a historical padrón & submit that with the appeal. 

Usually if there's only one documentation problem, they simply ask for that document to be submitted. Are you sure that's the only reason for refusal?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Alicante is one region where they have been (improperly) demanding a padron for residency applications as a result of which many town halls took to issuing temporary padrons specifically for the purpose then requiring you to return and reregister once you had successfully obtained a TIE.

Although it's that improper demand which has tripped you up ultimately your problem traces back to your having been here beyond the permitted 3 months and failing to apply for residency as you were required to.

That of itself is enough to disqualify you from benefitting from the WA and I would say is likely where an appeal would fail, not on the padron issue.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/109223/pe%20556%20965%20en%20_%20All_Online_Spain.pdf

You said "My son has been enrolled in the school system" from which it was reasonable to deduce that you meant the state system.

Interesting that that's your only only takeaway from my post but hey ho.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Basically the most obvious and official way to prove you were here before deadline is a padron. You dont say when you arrived here but I assume it must have been very close to deadline. Basically the office are doing it by the book but it looks as if you need to appeal the decision. I know that state schools require doctors certificate and padron for matriculation. Surely private schools have to ascertain you are actually living here, no?


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Do you have a rental contract from 2020, or have you bought a property ?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I thought that you could only get a TIE under the WA if you either:

1) Were already registered with a green cert and simply are exchanging it or
2) Can prove you arrived before 31st December and tried to register on EU citizens but couldn't due to time constraints.

I don't think the process was ever designed to allow unregistered immigrants from before that to regularise their situation after 1st January, with or without a historical padrón... maybe I'm wrong, but it seems very generous on Spain's part to me if this is even a possibility.

I hope it works out for the OP and the others in that situation.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

That was my understanding...


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I thought that you could only get a TIE under the WA if you either:
> 
> 1) Were already registered with a green cert and simply are exchanging it or
> 2) Can prove you arrived before 31st December and tried to register on EU citizens but couldn't due to time constraints.
> ...


Nope, there were loads of people coming out of the woodwork in and around benidorm just before Christmas. 
The Solicitor we used to get our residency (first time applicants) was turning people away up until the end of Dec as they couldnt fulfil the requirements for healthcare and money in the bank needed then by Alicante. 

We spoke to a couple who had been here for 10 years and never bothered, she wanted to get residency, her husband didn't because he thought that the Spanish tax system would take all his Uk old age pension. I politely pointed out that was not true and they would save the non residents tax and they could then also get the S1 and have Spanish healthcare. I might as well have been talking to the Titanic iceberg denial society. 

They still also had a Uk reg car and driving licences, drove back to the Uk for doctors and to sort the car (although it was new so no MOT for 3 years) don't know what they did, as it was on a night out and they are not friends. And to be honest I don't actually care.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I thought that you could only get a TIE under the WA if you either:
> 
> 1) Were already registered with a green cert and simply are exchanging it or
> 2) Can prove you arrived before 31st December and tried to register on EU citizens but couldn't due to time constraints.
> ...


You're probably correct, but apparently 1000s in that position have 'regularised their position' in this way since July last year.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, I think that it is clear that if the "irregular expat" started the regularization process before the end of last year, that was accepted, there were posts from gov.uk on Facebook telling people to do exactly that. I too know people who had lived here for years without registering, but got it done on time, just.

What I was impressed by was the fact that even if the OP had done nothing until this year (which appears to be the case) an historic padrón certificate would essentially act as a "regulation in kind" of the immigration status. I just didn't think that was envisaged in the W.A. and assumed it was a concession by the Spanish authorities. 
Considering how a lot of people are posting that Spain is effectively turning away the Brits to its own detriment*, this seems to indicate otherwise.

*I'm not saying that the OP of this thread is doing this by the way, I am referring to other recent posters in different threads.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Did anyone see the article in (i think) the UK paper, The Express the other day? I saw it posted online. Something along the lines of "shocked brits can only stay in spain 3 months"... I mean its just a reflection of the attitudes of people over the last few years in terms of brexit (not implying the OP, just commenting). I still cannot believe the amount I come across who have STILL not done anything about it or think they need to. 

In the case of the OP, when did you instruct your lawyer? If you instructed them prior to 31st December but, for some reason they could not get you done in time for the deadline, then they should have warned you of any papers you need to gather and any good lawyer will go overkill on their demands for documents as they like to know (as do many of us) that when it comes to any tramite, whatever we may be asked for we have with us, in that moment along with several photocopies of it!

If you didnt start anything until this year then it does beg the question as to why? From what you say, you seem to have been well and truly settled in Spain throughout 2020.. private school for the kids, private healthcare I suppose as you mention doctors, and so on. Was there a specific uncontrolable situation preventing you from starting the process to register (or completing it even) during 2020 when it was a very simple process to be honest? If there were exceptional circumstances then your lawyer should be gathering all of that for your appeal. 

I think in general, Spain were VERY willing to help. Yes there were appointment shortages at some points, but to be honest, the application for residency (part 1) could have been done online by your lawyer without you even having to do anything. Clearly, things would always be much more difficult after the deadline to prove you are a beneficiary of the WA and justify why you didnt take action before when the Spanish authorities, British authorities, Charities and all spects of media were so clear with instructions for many many months. 

You have said you don´t have a historic padrón. Is this because you simply dont have the document or you have literally only just registered on it?

Just finally, your last part of "it´s crazy"... you do have to think.. you have had so much time to do this with no hassle but now we are 3 months after the final deadline (4 years after brexit started and more than a full year past the actual date of brexit when we were in the grace "transition" period of a whole year which people were given to sort themselves out. So anyone who did not do it during that period, stands to reason that now they want evert i dotting and every t crossed!


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Ruthdenia1964 said:


> Hi
> I’ve just applied for my TIE & was refused it because I didn’t have a historic padrón. I didn’t know I had to apply for one all the time. I have a current one. It’s crazy as I have lots of proof of living in Spain last year to prove my residency. I have doctors appointments, petrol receipts, bank statements etc. My son has been enrolled in the school system for the whole of 2020 & still they refused my residency just because I don’t have a historic padrón. I don’t think they even looked at the other documents. Has anybody else been rejected & appealed & won. My lawyers went through the Alicante immigration office. It’s crazy


Do you have 3 months of bank statements showing use and significant balance in Spain prior to 31st December?
Do you have private healthcare, S1 or autonomo contributions proving legal healthcover/residence in Spain prior to 31st December?
Do you have a long term rental contract or Escritura prior to 31st December?

If not, you will struggle to prove residency under WA conditions. I would recommend that you contact Babelia to see if they can offer help/advice.

Good luck.


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## JosephUpshaw (Mar 11, 2021)

So many long procedures to get allowance here. It is a rather complicated process, indeed.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

An early webinar (Jan 27) with one or two dubious claims and a few too many instances of "I think" and "I believe" but a useful watch nevertheless.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MataMata said:


> An early webinar (Jan 27) with one or two dubious claims and a few too many instances of "I think" and "I believe" but a useful watch nevertheless.


Yes, hardly experts


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

MataMata said:


> An early webinar (Jan 27) with one or two dubious claims and a few too many instances of "I think" and "I believe" but a useful watch nevertheless.


A more recent one from the hosted by the British embassy.....



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1106608309857919


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

No link!


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

MataMata said:


> No link!


Works on my laptop, try .....
Facebook Live Q&A on Healthcare


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

A link only works if you give one - which you didn't, that was my point!


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

trotter58 said:


> Works on my laptop, try .....
> Facebook Live Q&A on Healthcare


It worked fine for me....just clicked on it in your post and it played as it should


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Apologies, my bad it seems, or at least my browsers (Brave).

For some reason the FB link in post #20 isn't showing but if I quote the post then it is in fact there as per below.



trotter58 said:


> A more recent one from the hosted by the British embassy.....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1106608309857919


All there with Chrome.

Looks like on this particular occasion Brave browser doesn't like FB, I can understand that - who does!

Brave is after all a browser built for privacy although I haven't noticed this behaviour previously.


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