# American expats - How do you transfer money from the U.S. TO a Spanish bank account?



## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

I recently opened an expansion account with Sabadell. I need to transfer a set amount in USD to my Sabadell account every month. 

I tried Currency Fair (as recommended on here) but since they are not a US entity, I have to request my bank to transfer the money to them first. The problem is it costs me $25 for the transfer. 

I then tried XE Trade (an American company) and they handled the money transfer for me (my first trade). My money was deposited into the Sabadell account in the same day. But they would not activate my account. I already provided my social security number and zillion pieces of other information. They wanted to know when I will return to the U.S. Heaven knows! They asked me to send them my "visa". Well, my residency card allows me to stay until 2019 but it does not mean that I will return in 2019. Being complied with the U.S. rules, of course XE Trade has to ask for zillion pieces of useless information. I am really annoyed by all this and am also concerned that the information does not reflect my true date of return (which I really do not know) and may have god-know implications.

So for those of you from the U.S., who do you use and how do you transfer your USD to Euro? (I am hoping for the version of minimum hassles and fees!)


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kimuyen said:


> I recently opened an expansion account with Sabadell. I need to transfer a set amount in USD to my Sabadell account every month.
> 
> I tried Currency Fair (as recommended on here) but since they are not a US entity, I have to request my bank to transfer the money to them first. The problem is it costs me $25 for the transfer.
> 
> ...


My bank isn't in the US, but in Canada. Similar though, so hopefully this helps...

Every month I have monies put into my Canadian bank account, and withdraw it over the month here in Spain. I have two deposits a month in Canada and typically two withdrawals here in Spain.

For large amounts of money, I do a bank-to-bank transfer for $13 plus they take a lot off for exchange rate. I shopped around in Canada to find the best deal for international transfers as it varies a lot between banks - probably as it does in the US. For withdrawals of €600 or less, I do a withdrawal from the ABM, because I don't get charged by the ABM here in Spain and only get charged $5 by my Canadian bank for ABM withdrawals. 

Another bank I looked into charged $30 (as opposed to $13 at my bank) for an international transfer, so it varies a lot. Perhaps there is a bank in the US that you can find that has good international transfer rates to your bank? The nice thing about banks is you don't have to worry about all the ID hassle you're going through.

I hope that helps in some way.


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> My bank isn't in the US, but in Canada. Similar though, so hopefully this helps...
> 
> .....
> I hope that helps in some way.


Thanks, AllHeart! I only need to transfer less than 1000 USD per month to meet the requirement of Sabadell. My Canadian husband (yes, from St. Catherine's) had no problem opening his XE Trade account some time ago and he has been transferring money from his Canadian bank account to Spain just fine. It seems Murphy's law is intended for me!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kimuyen said:


> Thanks, AllHeart! I only need to transfer less than 1000 USD per month to meet the requirement of Sabadell. My Canadian husband (yes, from St. Catherine's) had no problem opening his XE Trade account some time ago and he has been transferring money from his Canadian bank account to Spain just fine. It seems Murphy's law is intended for me!


You're most welcome and you're too cute! OMG St. Catherines for real?! I'm from Southern Ontario myself and have met plenty of good people that hail from St. Catherines. You're a lucky lady to snag one of those guys.  

Murphy's law has followed me my whole life too! 

So have you tried doing a bank-to-bank transfer?


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> You're most welcome and you're too cute! OMG St. Catherines for real?! I'm from Southern Ontario myself and have met plenty of good people that hail from St. Catherines. You're a lucky lady to snag one of those guys.
> 
> Murphy's law has followed me my whole life too!
> 
> So have you tried doing a bank-to-bank transfer?


Yes, I tried bank-to-bank transfer and my bank wants to charge me $25 to make that transfer to Currency Fair. Currency Fair has the same bank as mine in the US and technically transferring money within the same bank is free but the fine print reads that this perk is for individuals only (not for companies). Greed!

" _You're a lucky lady to snag one of those guys_." Are you sure about this? I think you have it reversed!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Maybe you're both lucky?  

I was set up as a business too for 20 years, and it's terribly aggravating the prejudice that you're loaded just because you own a company. Sorry that's happening to you too.  Have you checked how much it would cost you to do ABM withdrawals?


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Transferwise have started doing US currency I believe... worth a look...

https://transferwise.com/u/3b45


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## littlecritterz (Nov 29, 2012)

I use transferwise, they guarantee the best rates or they will refund the difference.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Are these exchange rates typically better than the banks? So you do a bank-to-bank transfer but use another company as a middle man to reduce the exchange rate. Is that the idea?


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> Are these exchange rates typically better than the banks? So you do a bank-to-bank transfer but use another company as a middle man to reduce the exchange rate. Is that the idea?


Thats the idea. I found my bank used better exchange rates than transferwise, so transferwise isn't better than all the banks (and transferwise takes a couple of days for the money to arrive, my bank only 1 day to arrive). 

Using transferwise meant only a local bank transfer charge vs an international one from my overseas bank, but overall, going direct from my overseas bank into Sabadell ended up being the better deal over all.


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## raisondart (Oct 5, 2011)

I just use paypal. The rate isn't bad and the charge isn't bad either. It's easy and fast. I tried dealing with currency exchange companies and it was so complicated...I had to have a friend who is power of attorney on my account go to the bank in person and do the transfer.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

angkag said:


> Thats the idea. I found my bank used better exchange rates than transferwise, so transferwise isn't better than all the banks (and transferwise takes a couple of days for the money to arrive, my bank only 1 day to arrive).
> 
> Using transferwise meant only a local bank transfer charge vs an international one from my overseas bank, but overall, going direct from my overseas bank into Sabadell ended up being the better deal over all.


My Canadian bank takes a few days for the transfer to my Spanish account. I'm going to check with my Canadian bank to see how they calculate the exchange rate. What I've done is check the online exchange rate and calculate the difference. For example on 600 euros, I'm charged $30-50 (22-37 euros) on top of the online exchange rate. Since I've never done this before, I have no idea if that's a good rate or not, as I have no point of comparison. Does that sound like a lot to you?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I just wrote my banker to see how they calculate the exchange rate. 

I just found out how to calculate the exchange mark-up in a percentage here: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/090314/how-calculate-exchange-rate.asp

_If the USD/CAD price is 1.0950, the market is saying it costs 1.0950 Canadian dollars to buy 1 U.S. dollar. At the bank though, it may cost 1.12 Canadian dollars. The difference between the market exchange rate and the exchange rate they charge is their profit. To calculate the percentage discrepancy, take the difference between the two exchange rates, and divide it by the market exchange rate: 1.12 - 1.0950 = 0.025/1.0950 = 0.023. Multiply by 100 to get the percentage markup: 0.023 x 100 = 2.23%_

So what's the typical mark-up that people have seen in banks, Paypal and other companies?


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## raisondart (Oct 5, 2011)

For Paypal. If you're transferring $1,000 euros to your Spanish account.
The exchange rate now is 1 dollar = .93 euros
Paypal's rate is 1 dollar = .9231
and then they charge you $5.00 fee if it comes from your bank account


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

raisondart said:


> For Paypal. If you're transferring $1,000 euros to your Spanish account.
> The exchange rate now is 1 dollar = .93 euros
> Paypal's rate is 1 dollar = .9231
> and then they charge you $5.00 fee if it comes from your bank account


I'm not sure how to work the mark-up % on your figures, but I just found my bank online (Royal Bank of Canada) showing their exchange rates, and this is what they have:

Foreign Exchange Currency Converter - RBC Royal Bank

So 1 CDN dollar is 0.7266 euros, for an exchange rate of 1.3762. Then I checked the online exchange rate, which is 1 CDN dollar is 0.7557 euros, for an exchange rate of 1.3232:

XE: (CAD/EUR) Canadian Dollar to Euro Rate

So the mark-up % is 1.3762 - 1.3232 = 0.53 / 1.3232 = 0.0400 x 100 = 4%.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

kimuyen said:


> I recently opened an expansion account with Sabadell. I need to transfer a set amount in USD to my Sabadell account every month.
> 
> I tried Currency Fair (as recommended on here) but since they are not a US entity, I have to request my bank to transfer the money to them first. The problem is it costs me $25 for the transfer.
> 
> ...


I have a bank account with USAA which reimburses me for a set number of international ATM transactions each month. Instead of bothering with bank transfers, I just make a withdrawal from an ATM any time I need cash (note: Bankia allows the highest withdrawals - 1000€ at a tame). I then head into the bank to make the deposit. 

Note that if you deposit more than a certain amount in one transaction (around 1,000 I think) you will have to complete paperwork. The local bank said to make bigger deposits in two or three transactions over various days.


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

Just on the comparison of exchange rates, transferwise quote an exchange rate in advance of the transfer that is good for a couple of days.

My bank also quotes an exchange rate ahead of the transfer, although the bank rate is only good for about 15 mins.

So technically, the bank exchange rate is more "live"than the transferwise one, so transferwise would have to build in a margin for fluctuation over the period the rate is guaranteed for.

I found my bank rate to be slightly better than transferwise, and just to test the process, did an equal transfer using both my bank and transferwise to see which ended up better, and the direct bank transfer won by a slight margin (taking into consideration all charges etc - more Euro arrived in Spain from the bank transfer than from transferwise).

But banks differ in the exchange rates they give. Mine is in HK and offers pretty good exchange rates, and quite low costs of transfer too, while I find xrates in some banks in other countries to be quite punitive (eg my UK bank, which I used once and learned never to use again because of the high charges to do a transfer). So I can imagine transferwise would win out vs many other banks.


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> I have a bank account with USAA which reimburses me for a set number of international ATM transactions each month. Instead of bothering with bank transfers, I just make a withdrawal from an ATM any time I need cash (note: Bankia allows the highest withdrawals - 1000€ at a tame). I then head into the bank to make the deposit.
> 
> Note that if you deposit more than a certain amount in one transaction (around 1,000 I think) you will have to complete paperwork. The local bank said to make bigger deposits in two or three transactions over various days.


In hindsight, you are probably right that having a Spanish bank account is more hassle than it is worth. During the 6 months waiting for my residency card, I did not feel "permanent" enough. So after I got my card, opening a bank account seemed light a rational next step to feel more permanent in the new land. Oh well!


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> I'm not sure how to work the mark-up % on your figures, but I just found my bank online (Royal Bank of Canada) showing their exchange rates, and this is what they have:
> 
> Foreign Exchange Currency Converter - RBC Royal Bank
> 
> ...


When I made my exchange 3 weeks ago, I tested out both Currency Fair and XE and Currency Fair gave me a higher net amount (but I had trouble with transferring USD to their account). With XE, they give you a few minutes to "lock" you rate in. You can see that your amount fluctuates every time you refresh it. I hate my US bank (they have branches everywhere and for the sake of convenience, I have stayed with them)and don't think they give a very good rate based on past experience with overseas purchase. I probably will try transferwise next.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

kimuyen said:


> In hindsight, you are probably right that having a Spanish bank account is more hassle than it is worth. During the 6 months waiting for my residency card, I did not feel "permanent" enough. So after I got my card, opening a bank account seemed light a rational next step to feel more permanent in the new land. Oh well!


That's not what I meant to say, I'm sorry if you understood it this way. 

Having a Spanish bank account is absolutely necessary for me. What I meant to say is that I have an easier way to "transfer" money: taking it out of my American account with USAA via ATM and then immediately depositing the cash into my Spanish account.


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> That's not what I meant to say, I'm sorry if you understood it this way.
> 
> Having a Spanish bank account is absolutely necessary for me. What I meant to say is that I have an easier way to "transfer" money: taking it out of my American account with USAA via ATM and then immediately depositing the cash into my Spanish account.


Yes, I know what you meant and did mean that you scared me away with the hassles of having a Spanish bank account . I can get by without needing a Spanish bank account though. I used to transfer the money to my husband's US account and he got money out of his La Caixa bank for me. But I want to have my own bank account. It is just the hassles and not the end of the road. It seems there are more options for people from the UK and other parts of Europe than for us from the US so it takes some researching.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Does anyone know where the exchange rate is found that is the base exchange rate? I don't know what to call it other than the base exchange rate, but I mean the exchange rate that all companies and banks work with. Does anyone know where this is online?


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> Does anyone know where the exchange rate is found that is the base exchange rate? I don't know what to call it other than the base exchange rate, but I mean the exchange rate that all companies and banks work with. Does anyone know where this is online?


Lots of sites point to the spot rate at any moment in time, bloomberg is one of many, eg the USD-Euro spot is at:

EUR to USD Exchange Rate - Bloomberg

I would imagine this would be the base rate banks would work with ? Then they would apply their margins to buy and sell, and every bank (and transferwise) would apply their own margins. The margins vary by country (eg HSBC UK and HK each apply different margins), and the margins can also vary over time (higher in times of greater volatility) and also by amount (better exchange rate offered for greater amounts).


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## eyeboy (Feb 10, 2012)

xe.com (the xe trade people) have a variety of currency charts to view.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm trying to set up a money exchange company but having problems finding one that works with Canada and Spain. XE Trade doesn't work with residents of Spain. Currency Fair will let me work with them, but I have to transfer to the UK which means the money is converted to pounds and then that defeats the whole purpose, since I have to pay for the conversion to pounds. 

Does anyone know a company that has Spain as your residency and the bank that you transfer to is in Canada? Or does anyone know how I can find one, please?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Transferwise is another one that doesn't work. But I'm trying HiFX. I'm just waiting for a confirmation email that will come within a day to see if I've been accepted. 

Thanks to everyone who has been giving suggestions as to companies to use. I just have been going through the companies recommended on the forum in various threads. The HiFX site actually has this forum as one of the referral sources to choose! That makes me feel safe there.


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

Looping back to my original comment... 

I have been using Transferwise for a few times now. I don't pay much attention to commission and exchange rate as separate items. What I care about is how much do I get at the end. I compared Transferwise net amount and it is competitive with other firms (may be 0.50 euros better). It is less hassle for me to set up. In my last transfer, Transferwise asked me for the first time to put in my social security number when I made the transfer, which is fine as uncle Sam is tracking all money movements. Still it is less hassle than with XETrade.


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## neddie (Jun 11, 2012)

....have a look at Moneygram...i have never used them so can not vouch for them. I am told that it is easy to use. They may have a limit on how much you can send.

...re. exchange rates, many places simply quote a middle rate which is NOT the rate you will get if you are buying or selling currency. A 'buy rate' is what the BANK will pay you when they buy the currency from you and the 'sell rate' is what you pay when the BANK sells currency to you. Be sure to check if the financial institution has any other fees!!!!


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