# Foreign Cars



## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

Is there any law that states how long a fully legal UK car can remain in Spain if it is owned by a non resident? I appreciate there are laws on how long the non resident (second home owner) can stay, but if he/she brings their new UK car to Spain and puts it in the garage while back in the UK then uses it again when they return is that allowed?

The question is about the car and not the non resident, I say that because many people ‘’ASSUME’’ non resident laws apply to the car, but I cannot find any law that says that.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

The car has to be legal on the roads of its country as in a British car must be legal to drive in the UK. It follows that the MOT test must be done yearly and can only be done in the UK. This precludes leaving the car forever in Spain. 

You may have problems with insurance although there are Spanish companies that will insure British cars. 

It is normally thought by the Guardia Civil that a car should not be out of its country of origin for more than six months. As I always say, "Are you sure you want to argue with the man in a green uniform with his gun at his hip"? 

Davexf


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

If your Spanish house is your second residence, and your car is registered to your home address in the UK, you do not need to register it in Spain.

"Pensioners, second homeowners, cross-border commuters, self-employed cross-border commuters (company cars)
As an EU nationals with a second home in Spain (that you use for no more than 6 months a year), you do not need to register your vehicles here."

Info taken from here:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/registration/registration-abroad//spain/index_en.htm


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## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> The car has to be legal on the roads of its country as in a British car must be legal to drive in the UK. It follows that the MOT test must be done yearly and can only be done in the UK. This precludes leaving the car forever in Spain.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave
I did say the car was fully legal, in fact new, I do realise it would need an MOT after 3 years and that maybe why there is no law.

_‘’It is normally thought by the Guardia Civil that a car should not be out of its country of origin for more than six months.’’_ Is that the law or the Guardia making it up?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Nakabandi said:


> Thanks Dave
> I did say the car was fully legal, in fact new, I do realise it would need an MOT after 3 years and that maybe why there is no law.
> 
> _‘’It is normally thought by the Guardia Civil that a car should not be out of its country of origin for more than six months.’’_ Is that the law or the Guardia making it up?


Equally, it must have valid road/vehicle tax paid in UK.

It can NOT be SORN - this is quite illegal although many do it.

/SNIP/, they will tell you it can only be here for 6 months - I disagree with them and follow what @DAVEXF states


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## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

I am not arguing either way, all I want to know is what is the exact law and that means not the made up thoughts of the Guardia with his AK40 or anyone else.

I have a brand new UK car and live in London where I rarely use it. I have a property in Spain. If I bring the car to Spain do I have to drive it back every 6 months or can I put it away in the garage.

It is fully insured for Spain and has UK road tax; it does not need an MOT at the moment.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nakabandi said:


> Is there any law that states how long a fully legal UK car can remain in Spain if it is owned by a non resident? I appreciate there are laws on how long the non resident (second home owner) can stay, but if he/she brings their new UK car to Spain and puts it in the garage while back in the UK then uses it again when they return is that allowed?
> 
> The question is about the car and not the non resident, I say that because many people ‘’ASSUME’’ non resident laws apply to the car, but I cannot find any law that says that.



Take a look at https://lifestylegroup.es/how-long-can-i-legally-keep-and-drive-a-uk-registered-car-in-spain/
it's the person that cannot remain in Spain for over 183 days without losing their non resident status. If the person stays longer than a total of 183 days in a calendar year then they become resident and must matriculate their UK registered car onto Spanish plates. Also, as a non resident, you can only stay for visits of under 90 days.

The UK government stipulate that if a UK car is taken out of the UK for over 12 months it's then considered permanently exported. https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

trotter58 said:


> it's the person that cannot remain in Spain for over 183 days without losing their non resident status. If the person stays longer than 183 days then they become resident and must matriculate their UK registered car onto Spanish plates.


You are confused. The 183 day 'rule' is for tax. If you are in Spain for more that 183 days in 365, then you are a tax resident. If you are in or are proposing to be in Spain for more than 3 months (90 days) you are required to register as a resident and, as such, you cannot drive a non-Spanish registered vehicle in Spain.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

Even if the Guardia Civil do make it up, can you afford the solicitors necessary to fight your case? Many people simply give in because it is cheaper to pay their fine than to argue the finer points of law. I will always ask the question "Did you come to Spain for heart attacks and hassle"? Most people come for tranquillity and the relaxed way of life 

Davexf


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## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

I never stay more than 90 days. The answer seems to be 12 months less a few days but that is UK law and not Spanish law, so not applicable in Spain. I get the feeling that there is no Spanish law on this question and therefore I can legally store the car in my Spanish garage.

Can we stick to the car and not the person, I am non resident.


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## Shakira Williams (Jul 13, 2019)

Can someone please explain the 183 days law? My car is also stuck is USA and they are asking for 183 days rule.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Shakira Williams said:


> Can someone please explain the 183 days law? My car is also stuck is USA and they are asking for 183 days rule.


It is very simple;

If you spend more than a total of 183 days in Spain in a calendar year, then you are considered tax resident and will be taxed on your world-wide income.

HOWEVER, there are other factors which may mean you are considered tax resident sooner than that.

@baldilocks - not in 365 days but in a calendar year


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Shakira Williams said:


> Can someone please explain the 183 days law? My car is also stuck is USA and they are asking for 183 days rule.


the "183 day rule" is you are considered to be tax resident in a country if you spend the majority (i.e. more than half) of a year in that country. This is cumulative, i.e. the clock doesn't stop if you take any time out of the country. 182½ days is half a year (183 days next year!) It doesn't matter if you go over the border into another country for a few days, the clock continues ticking when you return.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> the "183 day rule" is you are considered to be tax resident in a country if you spend the majority (i.e. more than half) of a year in that country. This is cumulative, i.e. the clock doesn't stop if you take any time out of the country. 182½ days is half a year (183 days next year!) It doesn't matter if you go over the border into another country for a few days, the clock continues ticking when you return.


Of a calendar year - which is the tax year in Spain, Jan 1 to Dec 31.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Shakira Williams said:


> Can someone please explain the 183 days law? My car is also stuck is USA and they are asking for 183 days rule.


As the others have said, this is to do with tax residency, not cars per se.


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## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

Nakabandi said:


> Is there any law that states how long a fully legal UK car can remain in Spain if it is owned by a non resident? I appreciate there are laws on how long the non resident (second home owner) can stay, but if he/she brings their new UK car to Spain and puts it in the garage while back in the UK then uses it again when they return is that allowed?
> 
> The question is about the car and not the non resident, I say that because many people ‘’ASSUME’’ non resident laws apply to the car, but I cannot find any law that says that.


Good afternoon everyone

I would like to thank all who have participated in this thread. The original question is as above:-

Unfortunately no member seems to know. I did state ‘’the question is about the car and not the non resident’’ but that has been ignored.

Thank you and please now close the thread as it is now of no useful purpose other than off thread comments. Thank you all again and have a good day.:kiss:


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nakabandi said:


> Good afternoon everyone
> 
> I would like to thank all who have participated in this thread. The original question is as above:-
> 
> ...


Your query hasn't been ignored, it's been answered.
In summary....Your street legal, UK registered, car can remain in Spain for up to 12 months. There you go, nice & simple! 

Threads remain so that other members of the forum don't have ask & answer the same questions and can learn by doing a simple search of the forum.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Nakabandi said:


> Good afternoon everyone
> 
> I would like to thank all who have participated in this thread. The original question is as above:-
> 
> ...


But the status of the car is irrefutably linked to the status of the owner, so the status of the owner cannot be ignored.


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## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

trotter58 said:


> Your query hasn't been ignored, it's been answered.
> In summary....Your street legal, UK registered, car can remain in Spain for up to 12 months. There you go, nice & simple!
> 
> Threads remain so that other members of the forum don't have ask & answer the same questions and can learn by doing a simple search of the forum.


The 12 month rule is from the UK and it is not Spanish law. The 12 month limit is only a DVLA made up rule and is not UK law.

I did not ask for the thread to be deleted only closed.


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## Nakabandi (Jul 25, 2019)

baldilocks said:


> But the status of the car is irrefutably linked to the status of the owner, so the status of the owner cannot be ignored.


I said I was non resident in the original post.:amen:


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nakabandi said:


> *The 12 month rule is from the UK and it is not Spanish law.*
> 
> I did not ask for the thread to be deleted.


Yes, but as a UK resident with a UK registered car the UK law does apply.....

"_If you’re the registered keeper of a UK-registered vehicle and you’re taking it out of the country for 12 months or more (also known as permanent export) you need a vehicle log book (V5C). You’ll need to:

Fill in the ‘permanent export’ section of your vehicle log book (V5C).

Send it to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BD. Include a letter if you’ve moved abroad and want your vehicle tax refund (if you’re entitled to one) sent to your new address.

Keep the rest of your log book (V5C) - you need it to register your vehicle in the country you’re taking it to.

You’ll usually get a refund on your vehicle tax in 4 to 6 weeks. The refund is worked out from the date DVLA gets your ‘permanent export’ section_."

From https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk

It might not be what you want to hear but it is what it is.


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## Mark s (Jun 6, 2019)

As long as you have valid road tax, mot and insurance from the country of origin you will be fine.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Mark s said:


> As long as you have valid road tax, mot and insurance from the country of origin you will be fine.


For a certain period of time


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> For a certain period of time


At the moment (pre B;day) you are covered 3rd party by all insurance companies. Although you need to check the 'small' print.

UK Gov details.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/driving-abroad

I work for the Uk arm of an Italian company and our company vehicles (Uk reg) are covered by the parent company when travelling in the EU (don't know the details but I have the insurance card for all trips) This also gives me full insurance on hire cars as well.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Barriej said:


> At the moment (pre B;day) you are covered 3rd party by all insurance companies. Although you need to check the 'small' print.
> 
> UK Gov details.
> 
> ...


You are covered for a certain period of time and I don't know if it's 3 months or 6 months, but it's one or the other.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You are covered for a certain period of time and I don't know if it's 3 months or 6 months, but it's one or the other.


Actually that is incorrect. @Barriej stated the facts.

If, for example, you have fully comp insurance, then that may only last 3 or 6 months. However, after that period, you still have 3rd party cover. It's EU law.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Actually that is incorrect. @Barriej stated the facts.
> 
> If, for example, you have fully comp insurance, then that may only last 3 or 6 months. However, after that period, you still have 3rd party cover. It's EU law.


 If it's wrong, then please remove post 25, (and then this one I suppose!) but I don't understand how the car can be legally insured if it's illegally in Spain. I understood that after 3 or 6 months a British number plated car needs certain paperwork to be completed to be able to remain LEGALLY in Spain and be driven in Spain. Is that not so? Maybe Barriej's post needs to be extended or I'm completely wrong. 

I have looked for clear info about this in both English and Spanish from DGT and DVLC and have not found anything from an authoritative source.
It would be great if there was a go to link for this often sought info.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If it's wrong, then please remove post 25, (and then this one I suppose!) but *I don't understand how the car can be legally insured if it's illegally in Spain*. I understood that after 3 or 6 months a British number plated car needs certain paperwork to be completed to be able to remain LEGALLY in Spain and be driven in Spain. Is that not so? Maybe Barriej's post needs to be extended or I'm completely wrong.
> 
> I have looked for clear info about this in both English and Spanish from DGT and DVLC and have not found anything from an authoritative source.
> It would be great if there was a go to link for this often sought info.


See post #3, #5 & #7. If the UK car is taxed, MOT'd and insured then the car is not illegally in Spain.

I doubt you will find any info' from an authoritative source saying that the *UK car* is illegally in Spain. However, you will find plenty of info' regarding the legal requirements for the UK car to driven in Spain. 
eg
(1) The owner must be UK resident. (which means the owner obeying Spanish & UK rules to retain UK residency). I can find nothing "authoritative" that states that the owner is required to remain in the same country as his/her car.
(2) UK car must be taxed, MOT'd and insured at all times while in Spain.
(3) The UK car cannot be driven by a Spanish resident. (unless owner present)
(4) The UK car cannot remain out of the UK for longer than 12 months. (after 12 months it will be considered to be permanently exported)

HTH


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

trotter58 said:


> See post #3, #5 & #7. If the UK car is taxed, MOT'd and insured then the car is not illegally in Spain.
> 
> I doubt you will find any info' from an authoritative source saying that the *UK car* is illegally in Spain. However, you will find plenty of info' regarding the legal requirements for the UK car to driven in Spain.
> eg
> ...


OK, Thanks.
I can see where people might fall on the wrong side of the law is the residency laws then. Not so much in number one above


> The owner must be UK resident. (which means the owner obeying Spanish & UK rules to retain UK residency)


But more 


> (3) The UK car cannot be driven by a Spanish resident. (unless owner present)


as you are considered a Spanish resident by Spanish authorities after 90 days even if you haven't done the paperwork required.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Found out some more today. I asked my company insurance.

If driving through multiple european countries, some insurance companies will insure 3rd party according to EU guidelines for your complete trip. As long as its not for longer than remains on your current insurance contract (i.e. 12months maximum.)

If staying in one country the maximum allowed would be 6 months (again dependant on insurance company) 

This link gives as much info as I can find.

https://lifestylegroup.es/how-long-can-i-legally-keep-and-drive-a-uk-registered-car-in-spain/


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Barriej said:


> Found out some more today. I asked my company insurance.
> 
> If driving through multiple european countries, some insurance companies will insure 3rd party according to EU guidelines for your complete trip. As long as its not for longer than remains on your current insurance contract (i.e. 12months maximum.)
> 
> ...


An example of UK insurance company that will insure a UK car for longer than 6 months, see https://www.saga.co.uk/insurance/car-insurance/eu-cover

Our UK car remains in Spain for longer than 6 months and is insured with a Spanish broker. Linea Directa & Liberty Serguros are examples of two Spanish insurers that will insure UK registered cars. They also appear on the UK MiB database, which allows you to tax online and is visible to UK traffic police.

HTH


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

trotter58 said:


> An example of UK insurance company that will insure a UK car for longer than 6 months, see https://www.saga.co.uk/insurance/car-insurance/eu-cover
> 
> Our UK car remains in Spain for longer than 6 months and is insured with a Spanish broker. Linea Directa & Liberty Serguros are examples of two Spanish insurers that will insure UK registered cars. They also appear on the UK MiB database, which allows you to tax online and is visible to UK traffic police.
> 
> HTH


Agreed but no more than 12 months continuously as the DVLA consider any vehicle out of the country for this length of time to be permanently exported.

Im also assuming that you are not resident in Spain? 
As you are not allowed to drive a foreign plated car if you are.

See here

https://www.healthplanspain.com/blog/expat-tips/350-driving-your-uk-registered-car-in-spain.html


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Barriej said:


> Agreed but no more than 12 months continuously as the DVLA consider any vehicle out of the country for this length of time to be permanently exported.
> 
> *Im also assuming that you are not resident in Spain?
> As you are not allowed to drive a foreign plated car if you are.*
> ...


....see post #28. 

I think we've done this to death now!


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