# Caught stealing- Penal code



## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Caught a member of staff stealing in our Madrid office. He does not know it yet. We are gathering evidence but rather than go thorugh a legal battle I would rather scare him into repaying the money.

We think it is about 8000 euros until now. If someone knows the Penal code please let me know what sort of setence he can get. In Czech where I live it is up to 5 years in jail for over 5000 euros.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

maxd said:


> Caught a member of staff stealing in our Madrid office. He does not know it yet. We are gathering evidence but rather than go thorugh a legal battle I would rather scare him into repaying the money.
> 
> We think it is about 8000 euros until now. If someone knows the Penal code please let me know what sort of setence he can get. In Czech where I live it is up to 5 years in jail for over 5000 euros.


Hi Max

I dont know offhand what the penalty is for theft from an employer in here in Spain, although I will ask one of our Lawyers to see if I can get an indication.

In the UK theft from an employer carries a heavier penalty than "normal" theft as it is also considered a "breach of trust".

What I would say at this point is be very very careful about your plan to "scare him into paying" - what do you stand to gain from that ? (maybe the return of the money obviously!) .. but what methods are you considering ? because it could end up where you or the company finds themselves committing an offence in doing so ! Also if your plan to "scare him into paying it back" fails, and you then go down the legal route, your actions in attempting to scare him could backfire on you at that stage too!

Personally I would always opt for the legal route. Not only is it the right way in my opinion in getting the offender to suffer the consequences of his or her actions - but it sends a clear signal to other employees that you take this sort of behaviour very seriously indeed!

Sue


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Max
> 
> I dont know offhand what the penalty is for theft from an employer in here in Spain, although I will ask one of our Lawyers to see if I can get an indication.
> 
> ...


Thanks Sue, I want to find how much time he could do and use that to get the try and get money back. If he knows he is facing a possible 5 strech in jail I am sure he will be more accommodating. No physical threats or violence just going to present the evidence.

Local boss had legal advice last time to not try and use the courts.Long and tedious process and also the theif suddenly recognises he has some rights. We are going for the shock and awe tactics


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

maxd said:


> Thanks Sue, I want to find how much time he could do and use that to get the try and get money back. If he knows he is facing a possible 5 strech in jail I am sure he will be more accommodating. No physical threats or violence just going to present the evidence.
> 
> Local boss had legal advice last time to not try and use the courts.Long and tedious process and also the theif suddenly recognises he has some rights. We are going for the shock and awe tactics


Hi Max

Well given the seriousness of this potential "offence" then Im reluctant to say anything!! so this is purely my opinion and not that of the Law firm I work for! please bear that in mind!

Any theft over 400 euros apparently is considered serious enough for legal proceedings / Court - BUT you cannot really predict the sentencing for that - because it will be dependent on the so many factors - there is no specific fixed penalty for this ... for example its not 3 years for theft, 5 years for theft from employee etc etc.

I suppose you also have to consider that this persons actions may have been determined by their own financial circumstances (Im not for one minute suggesting this makes it right!) BUT if this is the case then no amount of pressure from you guys is going to get them to pay it back - because they probably dont have it any more!

Anyway I think I need to leave this one to you!

Sue


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Max
> 
> Well given the seriousness of this potential "offence" then Im reluctant to say anything!! so this is purely my opinion and not that of the Law firm I work for! please bear that in mind!
> 
> ...


He was asking another colleague about starting some business. My guess is he has been saving it. Soon see, I will let you know tomorrow how he reacts.

"I suppose you also have to consider that this persons actions may have been determined by their own financial circumstances (Im not for one minute suggesting this makes it right!) "

This is exactly why I do not want to get into a court case. Poor me blah blah.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Some basic info for you to consider ..... 

Less serious penalties

The commission of less-serious offences such as involuntary manslaughter, theft of certain items under certain circumstances, driving a motor vehicle in Spain under the influence of drugs or alcohol may result in the imposition of penalties as follows:

* Jail from 6 months to 3 years.
* Suspension of employment or of public occupation for 3 years or less.
* Driving license deprivation by a term from 1 to 6 years.
* Weapons' use and hold deprivation by a term from 1 to 6 years.
* Convicted may be forbidden from living or visiting a specific place by a term from 6 months to 3 years.
* Fines of 12 months or more; which are calculated using the system called "Días multa": it is the number of days for which the accused is sentenced to pay a prescribed percentage (between € 1.2 and € 300.51).
* House arrest from 7 to 24 weekends (The weekend's duration is 36 hours, equivalent to 2 days of freedom deprivation).
* Community service from 96 to 384 hour

Minimum penalties

This level includes penalties to be imposed in case of commission of minor offences or misdemeanors, such as theft offenses, if property value exceeds € 300,51.

Penalties will be as follows:

* Driving license deprivation from 3 months to 1 year.
* Weapons' use and hold deprivation by a term from 3 months to 1 year.
* Fines of 5 days to 2 months; which are calculated as for less serious penalties.
* Community service from 16 to 96 hours.
* House arrest from 1 to 6 weekends (It is considered weekends' duration, 36 hours, 2 days of freedom deprivation).


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Some basic info for you to consider .....
> 
> Less serious penalties
> 
> ...


Thanks Sue, keep digging  Look for the bit on theft not drunk driving


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

maxd said:


> Thanks Sue, keep digging  Look for the bit on theft not drunk driving


lol .... no, both "Penalties" I have sent you cover the list of suggested offences which includes drink driving / theft etc ....

Your particular case may well fall into the Minimum Penalty or the Less Serious Penalty for theft ...

You obviously wouldnt impose a driving ban for theft! it is listing you different offences with a list of different punishments applicable ..... I highlighted in RED the reference to THEFT

Hey Im daft but not all the time !


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

lol just seemed a bit non specific. imagine doing them all at the same time:

The commission of less-serious offences such as involuntary manslaughter, theft of certain items under certain circumstances, driving a motor vehicle in Spain under the influence of drugs or alcohol may result in the imposition of penalties as follows


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## JCM78 (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi Maxd

My name is Jesus from Spain........
Well I have to tell you Spanish laws are not so hard as we would like to.....
More than 300 euros it´s considered "robbery", but , but .... it depends of the judge, in every city, every judge it´s completly different, probably if the lad who is stealing hasnt been caught stealing before, the judge just will tell him to pay the money back (if he is caught!!!) and probably he will say that he is insolvent and he wont have to PAY ANITHING and he will be free....


What I recommend to all of you even being myself spanish it´s just be careful !!!!! Spain is having serious ECONOMICS PROBLEMS and robberies are increasing a lot, people is looking for MONEY IN EVERYWHERE FOR PAYING BILLS and there´s no jobs at all, in fact unemployment it´s also increasing....
If any of you need some help, here I´m.


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