# 2 weeks away from moving need input



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm driving down with no schedule. only know I am visiting Guanajuato, Oaxaca, and san cristobal de las casas. I have a 5 year old and school is very important. 
I will be stayig a few nights in each place. then decide where I like it best and look for long term rental. can yall feel me in on good areas in this cities that would be great for family.

Gracias


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

If school is very important Chiapas and Oaxaca are not the best states to settle in. San Cristobal is a day drive from Oaxaca and not particularly an easy drive especially when teachers and others are blocking the roads in the Isthmus.
I cannot imagine that just staying a few days in each town wil be extremely fruitful s far as finding what each earea is like either.
I would think that Guanajuato, Queretaro and Jalisco have better schools than Chiapas or Oaxaca. 
. They have better universities , more oportunities and better doctors as well.


----------



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

that's a bummer, Oaxaca and san cristobal interest me a lot cause of the culture.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes thery are both wonderful places for their indigenous culture. The climate in Oaxaca is very nice as well. You notice I do not say that about San Cristobal which I love dearly but not because of its climate or medical facilities...


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

You may be really surprised at the very poor quality of the public schools in Mexico. There are some private schools that can be good, but usually are very expensive. So, if school is important for your child, be ready to spend money to get them into a good private school. You are probably leaving the best choice of schools for your child, certainly the least expensive for what they offer in return.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

You sound like you both don't have Resident Visas. If so, consider the drive to the border every 180 days for a Tourist permit


----------



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

I am a dual citizen. Private school was always the plan. But was hoping to find a good bilingual school. My main reason i started to look into moving to mexico was to help my 5 year old learn espanol. But oaxaca and san cristobal really stood out to me personally. Guanajuato still seems like a good option, only thing is its to far away from chiapas and oaxaca which id like to explore while in mexico.


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Lucianoperez83 said:


> I am a dual citizen. Private school was always the plan. But was hoping to find a good bilingual school. My main reason i started to look into moving to mexico was to help my 5 year old learn espanol. But oaxaca and san cristobal really stood out to me personally. Guanajuato still seems like a good option, only thing is its to far away from chiapas and oaxaca which id like to explore while in mexico.


I love Oaxaca, too, and hope to explore it more in the future. If you are planning on private school, I would think there could be some decent options in Oaxaca. I don't recall any regular participants on this forum with school aged kids in Oaxaca, unless there are lurkers out there???

I don't know if there are local Oaxacan forums that might be more helpful. Have you Googled "escuelas privadas en Oaxaca"? Quite a list comes up. If you want a bilingual school, here's one that looks like it's pretty high quality. No idea of cost.

Instituto México Británico - Escuelas Bilingües en Av. México 68 Núm. 324, Col. Olímpica, Oaxaca, Oaxaca - Sección Amarilla


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Interesting. Sounds like you are just going for a vacation, to return NOB to live permanently. I just wonder what the rush is for a 5 year old to learn espanol, that she would never need NOB, unless she was planning some type of business involving working with Latin Americans, some 20 anos hence.She could get that in the NOB schools, like my 3 children did. Hey, each to his own, no?


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

coondawg said:


> Interesting. Sounds like you are just going for a vacation, to return NOB to live permanently. I just wonder what the rush is for a 5 year old to learn espanol, that she would never need NOB, unless she was planning some type of business involving working with Latin Americans, some 20 anos hence.She could get that in the NOB schools, like my 3 children did. Hey, each to his own, no?


Living part of one's childhood in another country and culture provides an education in itself, far beyond simply learning another language. This can't be replicated in a classroom NOB.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> Living part of one's childhood in another country and culture provides an education in itself, far beyond simply learning another language. This can't be replicated in a classroom NOB.


That was not his stated reason. For the child to learn espanol was his main reason for doing this. Check his posts, please.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> Living part of one's childhood in another country and culture provides an education in itself, far beyond simply learning another language. This can't be replicated in a classroom NOB.


While that can be true for some children, that is NOT a universal truth. I can show you 5 children ( 3 girls and 2 boys) that were brought to Mexico after being born and reared a few years in the US, who had traumatic experiences in Mexico, and all but one has returned NOB where they are returning to a normal life there. The other is just crying every day to return after 3.5 years here, and, looks like we are finally convincing the parent to return to help that child. One size DOES NOT fit all. Sometimes we forget that when we make a general statement, it is usually based on our experience, and others often have much different experiences. Maybe if we used more " from my experience" and "your experience could differ" in our writings would be more helpful to others. Just sayin'.


----------



## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

You sound like you really want to live in the South , so I have two words for you: Benito Juarez.

I think schools are not some magic wand your country waves and then you have a smart kid. I truly believe that sending your kid to school (in any country ) is not enough. You, as a parent, need to invest part of your free time in teaching your kid good reading habits, math and science so he can develop intellectual curiosity for the world that surrounds him. You have the internet, there are literally million of resources, starting with the Khan academy. There is no excuse anymore. 

In Mexico you also have the advantage that he can literally learn everything you want him to learn for a lot cheaper, you can hire a tutor to complement his school, take him to swimming lessons, karate, violin lessons, piano lessons,cooking lessons, language lessons , history, First aid, etc, etc. 

What if your kid loves the experience of Archaeological zones so much he decides to be an archaeologist, or because he saw the jungle in Chiapas you inspire him to become a scientist? Or an oceanographer? or a polyglot? Or a doctor? Or by seeing trade at the mercado he becomes an international businessman? A classroom won't give you the opportunity to see what your kid's skills and passions are. Education is important, but it is also important to find out what your kid enjoys so that you can motivate him into a career that will make him happy and also provide him with a good life. 

And to put it in perspective: in the US ,education isn't comparable to other countries either. Universities here are all about "do you have the cash? Welcome in! " An example is how India is taking over computer science in the US. If you walked around the Microsoft campus I swear you would think you are in India. They just have better Computer science schools AND they are cheaper.


----------



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

Yes me wanting my daughter to learn spanish started my interest. But the more I did research the more i wanted to move there. Culture, Cost of living, i will be able to work less and be with my family more, Food which i miss-I live in mississippi so you can imagine. And I said to my family lets do it now while we are young and not wonder "what if". We intend on trying to adjust to mexican life and not expect american norms, which i believe its not gonna be an issue. Im 33 and realize that material things are not important and in a way enslave to a image that people want to be portraid. So yes Mexico is something im looking at as a permanent move.


----------



## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

coondawg said:


> While that can be true for some children, that is NOT a universal truth. I can show you 5 children ( 3 girls and 2 boys) that were brought to Mexico after being born and reared a few years in the US, who had traumatic experiences in Mexico, and all but one has returned NOB where they are returning to a normal life there. The other is just crying every day to return after 3.5 years here, and, looks like we are finally convincing the parent to return to help that child. One size DOES NOT fit all. Sometimes we forget that when we make a general statement, it is usually based on our experience, and others often have much different experiences. Maybe if we used more " from my experience" and "your experience could differ" in our writings would be more helpful to others. Just sayin'.


I think you are oversimplifying traumatic experiences in children. Children in the US who have lived through rape or school shootings or severe bullying won't fix their problems by simply moving to Canada. It would be a start but it won't fix things. The fundamental psychological problem remains there. 

I could also show you 5 children (3 girls and 2 boys) who have been born and raised here, who have never lived anywhere else, and they already have severe psychological issues with body image (anorexia and bulimia) violence and hyper sexuality, suicide, etc. It isn't limited to which side of the border you live and moving will certainly not fix it in the long term.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Raypinciotti said:


> There is no excuse anymore.
> 
> it is also important to find out what your kid enjoys so that you can motivate him into a career that will make him happy and also provide him with a good life.
> .


I don't think there ever was an excuse. My grandfather never had a day of schooling in his life, but he continually reminded me that a good education would keep me from "pushing a broom", as he did for much of his life. So, I became the first in our family with some, and he was correct. Parental interest and time takes a child to his dreams. Sadly, many, many parents have neither for their children today.


----------



## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

ojosazules11 said:


> Living part of one's childhood in another country and culture provides an education in itself, far beyond simply learning another language. This can't be replicated in a classroom NOB.


My wife a tall blonde from Ohio was an exchange student in Peru and Segovia Spain - where she picked up Castilian Spanish. Now in Mexico when she starts talking people's jaws drop. So often we hear 'where did you learn your Spanish ?'.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Raypinciotti said:


> I think you are oversimplifying traumatic experiences in children. Children in the US who have lived through rape or school shootings or severe bullying won't fix their problems by simply moving to Canada. It would be a start but it won't fix things. The fundamental psychological problem remains there.
> 
> I could also show you 5 children (3 girls and 2 boys) who have been born and raised here, who have never lived anywhere else, and they already have severe psychological issues with body image (anorexia and bulimia) violence and hyper sexuality, suicide, etc. It isn't limited to which side of the border you live and moving will certainly not fix it in the long term.


Maybe you should visit with these children who were torn away from their lives and friends and left to struggle on their own with one parent in a foreign country where they did not speak the language, had no friends, parent had no education, food was scarce, they slept on floors and not beds, and they asked "what did we do to deserve this". "When will we go home." 
Until you have seen through my eyes, and listened with my ears, how can you criticize my comments, Ray? You sound like you are all hat, and no cattle.


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

coondawg said:


> Maybe you should visit with these children who were torn away from their lives and friends and left to struggle on their own with one parent in a foreign country where they did not speak the language, had no friends, parent had no education, food was scarce, they slept on floors and not beds, and they asked "what did we do to deserve this". "When will we go home."
> Until you have seen through my eyes, and listened with my ears, how can you criticize my comments, Ray? You sound like you are all hat, and no cattle.


It seems the issues here go far beyond moving to another culture/country - it sounds like these children are dealing with trauma, forced displacement and poverty. Those issues aren't Mexico's fault, although likely in their minds, Mexico will be strongly associated with their trauma. And if their parent is unable to find adequate employment in Mexico, the cycle of generational poverty may continue (hopefully not).

The OPs situation sounds very different. He was expressing his interest in bringing his child to a country/culture where he himself has roots, expressed interest in particular in the cultural richness of Oaxaca and Chiapas, and it sounds like he can afford to feed, clothe and house his family, as he is planning on a private school. That is a far different scenario than the bleak one you describe and have witnessed. 

I have many friends and family members who were "third culture kids". Some of them really did not want to go to live in that other culture when their parents took them. But every single one of them as an adult is very grateful for their childhood experiences and for the positive ways in which those experiences shaped them. None of them wishes their parents would have just stayed and raised them in the USA. But again, the circumstances were very different from the situation you describe.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Agree. However, we do not know for sure anyone else's situation. That is why, as an educator for all my life, and having seem so much harm brought upon children needlessly by parents who are more concerned with their happiness than their children's, I am over cautious when it comes to the lives of children. Some children are more resilient than others. My children, your children, and others who post here that have children would enjoy the experience, but we do not know from a few words what type of parents we are hearing from. That is why I am cautious in favor of children. I hope all goes well.


----------



## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

coondawg said:


> Maybe you should visit with these children who were torn away from their lives and friends and left to struggle on their own with one parent in a foreign country where they did not speak the language, had no friends, parent had no education, food was scarce, they slept on floors and not beds, and they asked "what did we do to deserve this". "When will we go home."
> Until you have seen through my eyes, and listened with my ears, how can you criticize my comments, Ray? You sound like you are all hat, and no cattle.


I felt your comment was completely out of place as it is clearly not the case of the OP, all he was saying was he felt the experience of another country would enrich his kid's life. The mere fact that these kids you talked about were torn away from their lives and forced into living in Mexico is a sign of a gigantic problem these kids already had before they got to Mexico. And while returning to the US will help in the short term, surely you can see how having a parent who is willing to put them through hell would mess them up.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Raypinciotti said:


> I felt your comment was completely out of place as it is clearly not the case of the OP, all he was saying was he felt the experience of another country would enrich his kid's life. The mere fact that these kids you talked about were torn away from their lives and forced into living in Mexico is a sign of a gigantic problem these kids already had before they got to Mexico. And while returning to the US will help in the short term, surely you can see how having a parent who is willing to put them through hell would mess them up.


Ray, Ray, Ray ! o ! HE SAID he wanted his child to learn espanol ! The parents of my family's children grew up in Mexico and wanted their children to enjoy and enrich their lives too(they said). It did not work out that way. The children were good students NOB. Here they became poor students, had gang members for friends, etc. Ray, Mexico has a LOT of plusses, but it is NOT for everyone. And, you are correct, parents are the key. I suspect you were a good parent, but I do not know for sure.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

coondawg said:


> Ray, Ray, Ray ! o ! HE SAID he wanted his child to learn espanol ! AND, the more he checked into it, the more HE like many things about it for his benefit, not the child's. The parents of my family's children grew up in Mexico and wanted their children to enjoy and enrich their lives too(they said). It did not work out that way. The children were good students NOB. Here they became poor students, had gang members for friends, etc. Ray, Mexico has a LOT of plusses, but it is NOT for everyone. And, you are correct, parents are the key. I suspect you were a good parent, but I do not know for sure.


I made an addition above that I left out.


----------



## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

coondawg said:


> Ray, Ray, Ray ! o ! HE SAID he wanted his child to learn espanol ! The parents of my family's children grew up in Mexico and wanted their children to enjoy and enrich their lives too(they said). It did not work out that way. The children were good students NOB. Here they became poor students, had gang members for friends, etc. Ray, Mexico has a LOT of plusses, but it is NOT for everyone. And, you are correct, parents are the key. I suspect you were a good parent, but I do not know for sure.



Do you realize the horror story you are telling us happens to virtually all children of illegal immigrants that come to the US? They come here to find a better life and while some of them do, others find poverty, living in a house with other 40 illegal immigrants, sleeping on the floor, sometimes not having food and joining gangs or living a life of crime simply because it is easier, they are thrown into a world where they don't speak the language and their parents are also uneducated and work constantly for the mighty dollar so they can't take care of them..... And I bet you a lot of illegal immigrants want their children "to learn English" Some of these kids make it, others don't. 

The US also has a LOT of plusses but it is NOT for everyone. And I think it is unfair for you to chastise the OP for wanting his child to have an edge in the world by learning a second language. 

I can't tell you what kind of parent I am, you'd have to ask my kids about that. What I can tell you is my father was also an immigrant and struggled to find a job, there were moments in my childhood when we literally had nothing to eat, my father would take us to the park and teach us about trees and which fruit was edible. We'd eat fruit in the park and bring some home. We didn't have beds for several years and my father would make us tents so we felt we were sleeping outdoors.

We were poor but I remember my childhood as extraordinary and fun. It ALL comes down to the parents and not necessarily the situation.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Raypinciotti said:


> Some of these kids make it, others don't.
> 
> . It ALL comes down to the parents and not necessarily the situation.


THOSE 2 statements are EXACTLY what I have been trying to say all this time. Some do, and some don't. All children do not benefit from a change. You can not just make a blanket statement that something is of great benefit to everyone that does it.

I'm saying, Ray, that some things can be prevented, with a little education and common sense. And, Ray, I am speaking about children that I know and have hugged. They are family members.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Raypinciotti said:


> And I think it is unfair for you to chastise the OP for wanting his child to have an edge in the world by learning a second language.
> 
> Shame on you , Ray. Now you are saying things I never said. My 3 children have Spanish and French as other languages, from public schools in the US, as do I. I know the advantages of other languages. What makes you think I don't?
> 
> "We were poor but I remember my childhood as extraordinary and fun. It ALL comes down to the parents and not necessarily the situation."


These children are not you, Ray. They will never remember this experience as "fun". What works for one does not work for all.

Uncle.


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

Lucianoperez83 said:


> I am a dual citizen. Private school was always the plan. But was hoping to find a good bilingual school. My main reason i started to look into moving to mexico was to help my 5 year old learn espanol. But oaxaca and san cristobal really stood out to me personally. Guanajuato still seems like a good option, only thing is its to far away from chiapas and oaxaca which id like to explore while in mexico.


Setting aside for the moment the larger questions into which this thread has drifted--two schools in Guanajuato (city) that have been highly recommended to me are Colegio Yeccan Waldorf and Instituto Guanajuato. Neither have the very large classes nor the emphasis on traditional teaching methods (memorization, tedious hours spent sitting at a desk listening to a teacher at the blackboard lecturing) common to other schools in the area, including private ones, but engage in more age appropriate, developmentally sound teaching practices.

.


----------



## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

coondawg said:


> THOSE 2 statements are EXACTLY what I have been trying to say all this time. Some do, and some don't. All children do not benefit from a change. You can not just make a blanket statement that something is of great benefit to everyone that does it.
> 
> I'm saying, Ray, that some things can be prevented, with a little education and common sense. And, Ray, I am speaking about children that I know and have hugged. They are family members.


 If they are family members then why did YOU personally allowed these kids to go hungry and sleep on the floor?


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

lucianoperez83. good for you about wanting your daughter to learn Spanish and live in Mexico, I think being bi cultural is an important part of life and opens peoples eyes.
I have very close friends in Oaxaca but they live one hour outside of the city so I cannot help you about the schools. We visit Oaxaca a lot and I have heard more than I want to hear about public schools there . Many people are pretty angry with the teachers situation there and how much time the kids are without school.
We live 6 months of the year in Chiapas and I have a friend who was sending her child to a private school due to her financial situation she has switched him to a public school and she has been fighting with the administrator and the teachers on a regular basis. She says that the public schools are terrible...
I would think that Tuxtla would have better schools than San Cristobal as there is more money there and many of the politicians have family there....This is not my favorite town in Chiapas but I guess sometimes you do not have as much choices as you would like.

I d not know your job situation but if you can work from home you could spend a year here and a year there before setting in a more permanent way.

I do not know about the plane connections are with Guanajuato but Tuxtla is a 2 hour flight from Guadalajra via Volaris or Vivaaerobus and it is cheaper to fly than to drive .It is a 1400km drive from Guadalajara.
Flights to Oaxaca from Guadaljara are more expensive than flights to Chiapas..another querk. Maybe you can spend vacations in the south or just move there for a few years when your child is still young and you can help her with her schooling. 
We spend a lot of time in Oaxaca and Chiapas and they are by far the states I enjoy the most but we still keep a base in Jalisco..I guess we want our cake and eat it too.
Good luck finding your spot and I congratulate you in giving your daughter this oportunity. I would have given my eyes and teeth for my parents to do that but they refused to move out of Paris and I had to learn about other cultures and other languages from schools and later on from living in various countries. Starting life being bilingual really helps later.


----------



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

Citlali thank you for responding to my origional post. Personally I would love to make oaxaca or San cristobal to work out. But like i said school is very important for us. Does teacher problems exist even in private schools? 

My Preference in places was san cristobal then oaxaca and third guanajuato.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

From what I heard from my friend in San Cristobal she liked the private school and hates the public school . I cannot tell you if the level of the private school is good or not . I can ask her for the name of the school and ask her what is the best school around and you could check it out. 
No the teachers of the private school do not take off every other day to go and demonstrate against the reforms, how goo the private schools are here I do not know.
I am travelling for the next 3 days but I will send you a PM how to contact her or for the name of the school and you can go from there when you get here.


----------



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

citlali said:


> From what I heard from my friend in San Cristobal she liked the private school and hates the public school . I cannot tell you if the level of the private school is good or not . I can ask her for the name of the school and ask her what is the best school around and you could check it out.
> No the teachers of the private school do not take off every other day to go and demonstrate against the reforms, how goo the private schools are here I do not know.
> I am travelling for the next 3 days but I will send you a PM how to contact her or for the name of the school and you can go from there when you get here.


That would be great. Thannk you very much. Here is my e-mail.
[snip]


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Hi you cannot post your e-ail on the public forum but after a few posts you can use the PM feature so keep posting and you will be able to use the PM.
Also id you search las mejores escuelas privadas de San Cristobal d las casas, it gives yo a rating of the private schools. I do not know if it is any good but it gives you a starting point. I will also ask my friend.
My neighbor has a little girl , he is a single father and I will ask him about the schools as well.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Hi you cannot post your e-ail on the public forum but after a few posts you can use the PM feature so keep posting and you will be able to use the PM.


The PM feature kicks in after you've made 5 posts.


----------



## Lucianoperez83 (Mar 5, 2016)

Yeah. Just read where it tells me I have to have 5 'good' post.


----------



## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

coondawg said:


> Maybe you should visit with these children who were torn away from their lives and friends and left to struggle on their own with one parent in a foreign country where they did not speak the language, had no friends, parent had no education, food was scarce, they slept on floors and not beds, and they asked "what did we do to deserve this". "When will we go home."...


This is the experience my wife deals with daily with the children of immigrants to the United States from other countries, with the majority coming from Latin America (both legally & illegally). Inconceivable as it seems, but many of the kids are not told in advance that they are coming to live here permanently, which often understandably does a number on them emotionally & psychologically. Over the past couple of years, the major influx of families has been from Venezuela... people coming to the US on vacation / tourist visas, then applying for asylum. The sadder cases to see are when some kids have been pulled out of school to return to Mexico for a year or two, then come back maladapted & behind in their academic development and unsure of what culture they really fit into.

We seriously considered moving to Mexico as a family - the kids were in favor of the idea - but nixed the idea because of education concerns. We weren't sure of what we could find or afford instead of public education there, so we stayed NOB. Still my kids grew up well-rounded & thankful for being raised biculturally & bilingually, backed with many summers spent in Mexico adding realism to their learning & understanding.

Whatever you decide in raising your child, communication, astute observation & involvement in their lives & education will make the biggest differences in how he / she turns out and will guide you in the decisions you make in that regard. Not being afraid to try something different is great, but don't be too afraid or prideful to change your plans or thinking if it doesn't work out as you hoped or expected.


----------



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Well said, Howler !


----------

