# Brit and Non-EU spouse



## Roxx79

Dear All, 
I am British and will hopefully be moving to Europe from Bangkok with my Thai partner and our two young children. 

For my partner to gain a residency permit as my spouse, what requirements need to be met for Germany?

We are lesbian and in a UK Civil Partnership and both have only basic German (though I have Spanish, Portugese, Italian and Thai so should learn quickly.

Can anyone shed light on a) the acceptance of my partner as my legal spouse in Germany for the residence card, 
and b) on any language requirements
c) on any fabulous places to live as 

Furthermore, as an excellent English speaker, would she be likely to be able to get any work in a hotel (she is a very talented chef)?
Thanks,
R


----------



## ALKB

Roxx79 said:


> Dear All,
> I am British and will hopefully be moving to Europe from Bangkok with my Thai partner and our two young children.
> 
> For my partner to gain a residency permit as my spouse, what requirements need to be met for Germany?
> 
> We are lesbian and in a UK Civil Partnership and both have only basic German (though I have Spanish, Portugese, Italian and Thai so should learn quickly.
> 
> Can anyone shed light on a) the acceptance of my partner as my legal spouse in Germany for the residence card,
> and b) on any language requirements
> c) on any fabulous places to live as
> 
> Furthermore, as an excellent English speaker, would she be likely to be able to get any work in a hotel (she is a very talented chef)?
> Thanks,
> R



Your partner needs to apply for a short term Schengen Visa as the partner/spouse of an EEA national. Your UK Civil Partnership is accepted for German visa purposes (and all other purposes ), the Embassy might or might not ask you to have the document translated into German.

There are no visa fees for this visa.

I have heard from others that, even though a short term Schengen Visa is usually valid for three months, the German Embassies tend to give the time period for which health insurance has been purchased. I'd invest into the minimum of three months, just in case.

She does not need to prove any German language skills.

Once in Germany, you both need to register your address with the local authorities and apply for her Aufenthaltskarte at the Auslaenderbehoerde. It usually takes 3 to 4 weeks to get the residence card.

I'd stick to the big cities, especially if you are coming over without a confirmed job. My choice will always be Berlin (excellent bilingual state schools, btw) but I am biased and it depends on your professional background and what you want out of a place. If you want to go skiing on weekends, you might prefer Munich over Berlin or Hamburg 

I have a background in hospitality management and many German chefs in hotels (at least every single one I worked with) are not exactly fluent in English. This varies of course. What kind of experience does she have? What kind of cuisine?

There are loads of Thai restaurants in the bigger towns and cities, and although they are mostly family-run, it might be possible for her to find employment there.


----------



## Roxx79

This all sounds very positive. 
Berlin is an obvious first choice but I imagine also the most competitive. We shall see what schools I can find. I'll respond to advertisements and also write speculatively. I get very nervous about job applications but I am pretty sure my references are watertight. 

My partner can cook thai food standing on her head - rather she works for a high end (5*) hotel serving international food. She is Chef de Partie for COMO group.
Healthful Dining Bangkok | Glow Restaurant | The Metropolitan Bangkok (her branch) 
Glow Restaurant Ubud | COMO Shambhala Estate Bali (flagship branch Bali)
It's a long shot but maybe you can think of somewhere..! I am sitting here with my German study book... hehe.


----------



## ALKB

Roxx79 said:


> This all sounds very positive.
> Berlin is an obvious first choice but I imagine also the most competitive. We shall see what schools I can find. I'll respond to advertisements and also write speculatively. I get very nervous about job applications but I am pretty sure my references are watertight.
> 
> My partner can cook thai food standing on her head - rather she works for a high end (5*) hotel serving international food. She is Chef de Partie for COMO group.
> Healthful Dining Bangkok | Glow Restaurant | The Metropolitan Bangkok (her branch)
> Glow Restaurant Ubud | COMO Shambhala Estate Bali (flagship branch Bali)
> It's a long shot but maybe you can think of somewhere..! I am sitting here with my German study book... hehe.


Getting to Germany should be straightforward 

I always thought that Berlin is less competitive than Munich or Frankfurt am Main and it certainly is much less expensive. I have a friend in Munich who pays more for her one bedroom flat than we used to pay in Berlin for our three bedroom flat.

Which sector do you work in?

The average German hotel generally serves regional cuisine or in the case of Berlin and big cities, 'modern European', like a leaner version of traditional German food with influences of Italian, French and whatever else cuisine.

The most luxurious and biggest hotels are starting to go a more international way:

Kempinski Hotels | Hotel Adlon in Berlin. Luxury 5 star Berlin Accommodation - Kempinski

(UMA Restaurant could be a possibility.)

Estrel Berlin: Europe's largest convention-, entertainment-& hotel-complex



Good luck!


----------



## Roxx79

Hi and thanks again for your advice. 

I am a primary school teacher with coming up for ten yrs experience. In the UK I worked in state school, but in BKK I work in an international school. I would hope to get a similar job in Europe. I am collating lists of schools to keep in mind, but I have to finish my pregnancy before I know when I'll be applying. The way I feel now (wanna get out of here!) may change. I'm sure becoming a mother will change everything..!


----------



## ALKB

Roxx79 said:


> Hi and thanks again for your advice.
> 
> I am a primary school teacher with coming up for ten yrs experience. In the UK I worked in state school, but in BKK I work in an international school. I would hope to get a similar job in Europe. I am collating lists of schools to keep in mind, but I have to finish my pregnancy before I know when I'll be applying. The way I feel now (wanna get out of here!) may change. I'm sure becoming a mother will change everything..!


Germany is not a bad place for being pregnant and a new mother 

I don't know how this works for the international private schools like the Berlin British School but if you want to teach in Germany, you will need at least to have your qualification officially recognised:

Recognition Finder - Reference occupation

The process can take around three months, I have heard.

I've been trying to find a source for whether you need to be exercising your EU treaty rights, which could be difficult if you are on maternity leave but came up empty so far.


----------



## Roxx79

hiya again, 
Thank you again for your help. I think that in an international school I would not need to pursue this equivalence thing, but it's useful as a question to ask. I would certainly need to be working, and exercising treaty rights so I wouldn't be on maternity leave, unfortunately. I think my poor partner will be stuck with daytime childcare for a while.


----------



## ALKB

Roxx79 said:


> hiya again,
> Thank you again for your help. I think that in an international school I would not need to pursue this equivalence thing, but it's useful as a question to ask. I would certainly need to be working, and exercising treaty rights so I wouldn't be on maternity leave, unfortunately. I think my poor partner will be stuck with daytime childcare for a while.


In any case it can't hurt to have the document just in case. You can get the process started from abroad, too, so maybe that would be something you'd want to do as soon as possible.

Don't forget that you can't legally work in Germany six weeks before your due date and eight weeks after delivery.

Depending on where you live, it can be incredibly hard to find a daycare place for under three-year-olds. In general, the further west/south your location within Germany, the fewer daycare places  This is due to a traditional discrepency of childcare philosophies in West and East Germany.

You might also want to look into Potsdam as an alternative (very nice town with direct fast train links to Berlin), although I think they only have one English medium primary school, which is private. There is another very posh private school... I think it's called Berlin-Brandenburg International. Might be worth looking into.


----------



## biofena

Hello ALKB , 

Q1.:
I think the lady wanted to know if her spouse can have a job in Germany while on a Schengen visa status,so do I .. 

Q2.:
How much money shall the couple have in Germany in order to granted residency based on EU treaty rights (self-sponsored) ?

thanks


----------



## Sydcdw

Roxx79 said:


> Dear All,
> I am British and will hopefully be moving to Europe from Bangkok with my Thai partner and our two young children.
> 
> For my partner to gain a residency permit as my spouse, what requirements need to be met for Germany?
> 
> We are lesbian and in a UK Civil Partnership and both have only basic German (though I have Spanish, Portugese, Italian and Thai so should learn quickly.
> 
> Can anyone shed light on a) the acceptance of my partner as my legal spouse in Germany for the residence card,
> and b) on any language requirements
> c) on any fabulous places to live as
> 
> Furthermore, as an excellent English speaker, would she be likely to be able to get any work in a hotel (she is a very talented chef)?
> Thanks,
> R


Hi Roxx79,
My partner and I moved to Frankfurt from Australia. He is a Uk citizen and I am Australian citizen. We did the Civil Partnership in Germany after 9 years together, I stayed initially on a short term Visa as we were meant to be going home after 1 year, alas we ended up staying and needed to sort out my Visa. Sorting out my Visa with the UK was going to be costly and a pain, Seeing as we were going to do it anyway we had our Civil Partnership in Germany.

:focus:

A Civil Partnership in Germany to a EU citizen allows the Non EU citizen to stay indefinitely.

There are no Language requirements

Your UK Civil partnership is recognised here.
The way our immigration lawyer in Frankfurt explained it while we were looking at our options- The non EU partner will be provided with the same rights as the EU citizen partner, allowing the non EU partner to live and work in Germany indefinitely. You provide your Partnership certificate to the town hall and they will provide your partner with a residence card. You may need a translation done of the UK certificate. But they do recognise your UK Civil partnership here, possibly more than the UK does. In the Germans way of looking at it- You're married, doesn't matter to whom. 
I would suggest contacting a Immigration lawyer.
I can provide you with the contact details of our Immigration Lawyer in Frankfurt if you need.

You will also need to speak with a international Tax specialist, as sex couple tax law is tricky and differs from state to state, so you may get a tax break for being married and living in Berlin, but not in Frankfurt (as I've found out )

Stick to the main Cities, Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt are all very accepting. The further out of the city you go, the more you go from being a everyday person to ending up being treated like a oddity or outcast. 
We like Frankfurt- its not too cold here in the winter and is a international finance hub, so there is a lot of foreigners living here full time.

Hope your move goes well.

Cheers Chris.


----------



## ALKB

biofena said:


> Hello ALKB ,
> 
> Q1.:
> I think the lady wanted to know if her spouse can have a job in Germany while on a Schengen visa status,so do I ..
> 
> Q2.:
> How much money shall the couple have in Germany in order to granted residency based on EU treaty rights (self-sponsored) ?
> 
> thanks



Q1: Theoretically, yes, but employers will be reluctant to hire if the person applying only has a visa that is valid for a maximum of three months. (Buy at least three months of health insurance when applying for the visa, because they tend to give a visa according to the validity of your health insurance and a month-long visa might give you a very tight time frame.) 

Better apply for the Aufenthaltskarte (residence card) as soon as possible. The non-EU partner has the full right to work in Germany as long as the marriage to the EU partner is ongoing, the EU partner is exercising treaty rights and they live together in Germany.

Q2: There is no set amount of money specified but the Embassy does ask how you are planning to maintain yourself. So, having a job, however small, gets the EU partner to excercise treaty rights and thus a right to live in Germany and bring their spouse over. You are then also eligible to apply for certain non-contribution based benefits, such as housing benefit (Wohngeld), if you have children child benefit (Kindergeld) or in certain cases also topping up your income with social security. If you apply for the latter, the authority will ask you why you came to Germany and whether it was not possible to live somewhere else without the need of benefits. So personally, I'd wait with this kind of thing at least a few months.

Having said all this, keep in mind that you will have to survive in Germany. Living expenses are not as high as in the UK for instance, but still you will need around 1500 EUR per month as a couple (depends on the region, can be less, can be MUCH more) to pay rent and utilities and food and whatnot and that is if you are very disciplined and live frugally.


----------



## biofena

detailed,to the point and helpful !

many thanks :clap2:


----------



## biofena

Sydcdw said:


> Hi Roxx79,
> 
> Hope your move goes well.
> 
> Cheers Chris.


Hello Chris,
thanks for the info,
would you please share the immigration lawyer's contact details ?

can the non-EU citizen spouse go first to Germany to arrange the house ?

thnx


----------



## ALKB

biofena said:


> Hello Chris,
> thanks for the info,
> would you please share the immigration lawyer's contact details ?
> 
> can the non-EU citizen spouse go first to Germany to arrange the house ?
> 
> thnx


That will be tricky.

I am not sure whether the short term Schengen Visa specifies to join/to accompany as the UK version does but the Visa is in fact just that: to join or accompany your EEA spouse to Germany.

If the non-EEA spouse manages to enter Germany without the EEA partner, they would not be able to apply for the residence card without the EEA partner present. Which, in turn, would make it difficult to rent a flat, few landlords would give a rental contract to somebody on a short term visa.


----------

