# How long do I have to leave the UK after my 6 month tourist stay?



## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

I would like to live the UK with my family on and off for the next few years. I have an online business that I could run from there to support myself. I won't qualify for a work visa or any sort of residency, so I just plan to go for the allowed 6 month tourist time and then leave to visit another country before returning. 

Does anyone know if there is a minimum time I have to be gone before returning for 6 more months as a tourist again?

Could I then just leave the UK, move to a Schengen Area country for 1-3 months, and then move back to the UK for 6 more months as a tourist? 

Any other tips or advice to help me accomplish what I'm talking about are welcome, thanks!


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

You can visit for 6 months in every 12.

You cannot work, even for an online business, while on a visitor visa.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

So I would need to visit UK for 6 months, then go to a Schengen Area country for 3 months, then leave Europe all together for 3 months before returning to the UK for the 2nd year? 

Does that sound right? Any way to stay in Europe the whole year?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

The general rule is that you can visit for 6 months out of 12 but that is always at the discretion of the IO. Repeated visits could lead an IO to think you are trying to live in the UK without having a proper visa which could result in a refusal of entry. 

As stated, you can't work on a visit visa and that includes working on-line or remotely.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

slaterb554 said:


> Any way to stay in Europe the whole year?


Only if you qualify for a visa.


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

You might want to look at wider Europe, like for instance Turkey. You could do 3 Month Schengen, 3 Month Turkey, and 6 Month UK, if you are after a tourist visa combination to stay for a whole year in Europe.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

JFC said:


> You might want to look at wider Europe, like for instance Turkey. You could do 3 Month Schengen, 3 Month Turkey, and 6 Month UK, if you are after a tourist visa combination to stay for a whole year in Europe.


That could work, I hadn't thought of Turkey. What is the "tourist visa combination" you referred to mean? Would I need to get any sort of visa if I am just visiting as a tourist or will a US passport suffice?


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

You might have to pay a small tourist visa fee on the Turkish border or online in advance, I think that changed recently. The 90 day tourist visa for the US passport holder is currently 20$ (I just checked). Turkey is just an idea, but there are also other places.
Using the example you would be able to travel with your passport without actually applying for expensive visa's with lots of requirements as you would just travel on tourist visas.

It was just to give you an idea.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

nyclon said:


> As stated, you can't work on a visit visa and that includes working on-line or remotely.


Thank you, I don't want to break the rules or anything, but I really don't see the harm in spending a few hours a day on my laptop maintaining my US based online business while I'm in the UK, they really don't have a wait to regulate that which I could imagine.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

slaterb554 said:


> Thank you, I don't want to break the rules or anything, but I really don't see the harm in spending a few hours a day on my laptop maintaining my US based online business while I'm in the UK, they really don't have a wait to regulate that which I could imagine.


You may not see the harm but you are in fact breaking the rules. Answering emails whilst on a short business trip is one thing. Spending 6 months in the UK and running a business from there are 2 different things. You are not allowed to work whilst in the UK on a visit visa.


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

slaterb554 said:


> Thank you, I don't want to break the rules or anything, but I really don't see the harm in spending a few hours a day on my laptop maintaining my US based online business while I'm in the UK, they really don't have a wait to regulate that which I could imagine.


You are trying to be what is known as "Digital Nomad". Type this into Google and have a read how other people deal with visas and tax and other things.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

JFC said:


> You are trying to be what is known as "Digital Nomad". Type this into Google and have a read how other people deal with visas and tax and other things.



Thank you JFC, you are absolutely right and I hadn't heard that term before so this gives me lots a research to do. I have been working on building this online business with the sole purpose of moving to the UK, since my company couldn't sponsor me to transfer, I'm going it alone. Don't want to give up on the dream. I'll be homeschooling my kids (terrifying), but thats what its going to take to escape the US so I'm going to do it. 

Expected departure is August 1, 2015, after school is out and 3 months after the birth of our 4th child. (Yes my wife is brave and awesome).


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Your wife is a UK citizen and you don't meet the requirements for a spouse visa? That's why the attempt to skirt the rules? How can you home school your kids if you can only spend 6 months -if you're lucky- out of 12 with them?


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

nyclon said:


> Your wife is a UK citizen and you don't meet the requirements for a spouse visa? How can you home school your kids if you can only spend 6 months out of 12 with them?


Hmm..Not sure where you read that or if I wrote it somewhere by mistake, but my wife is not a UK citizen, we're all Americans, and we'll all be together all the time, homeschooling where ever we are.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

So you are all going to up and leave the UK every 6 months?


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

nyclon said:


> So you are all going to up and leave the UK every 6 months?


Yes, that is the plan anyway, live in different areas of Europe or the world throughout the year, but have the UK be the majority of the time, or half the time, as it were. Also will be coming back to the states each summer for a month or two, so we'll just need to figure out where to spend the other 4-5 months.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

So do other things you haven't considered. You'll have no credit in the UK. If you can find someone to rent to you for 6 months you'll undoubtably be asked to pay the full 6 months in advance along with a security deposit. Opening a bank account is difficult without proof of address. You'll have to have private insurance for your whole family.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

nyclon said:


> You may not see the harm but you are in fact breaking the rules. Answering emails whilst on a short business trip is one thing. Spending 6 months in the UK and running a business from there are 2 different things. You are not allowed to work whilst in the UK on a visit visa.


OOOH, Slater, the UK tax authorities are going to hunt you down for pulling in $2,000 a month selling legal U.S. services or products to U.S. customers, with all physical operations taking place in the United States, with all postal services starting and ending in the United States, for having the temerity to upload a few bytes of data on UK air space, to almost certainly US satellites, or US-laid fiber optic lines.

You might even point out to any supercilious bureaucrat that we invented the damn internet, and we'll take it back if he doesn't watch out.

In another country's thread, there was a guy who said that a custom's official could confiscate your laptop, IPad or smart phone to ferret our whether you are using your time in another country to earn income, even though every single bit of actual activity takes place only in the USA, but for a mom-and-pop operation, with literally thousands of Americans running internet businesses - and I'd wager many Brits are doing it as well when they live as tourists in Europe, Asia and even, gasp, the USA, all without being dragged over to prison -- I certainly have never heard of any British custom official ordering the arrest of an American tourist for running such a tiny operation back in his homeland. Drugs, terrorism, multi-millions of dollars, yeah. But what thousands, thousands of travelers are doing, well, let me hear the examples, folks.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

nyclon said:


> So do other things you haven't considered. You'll have no credit in the UK. If you can find someone to rent to you for 6 months you'll undoubtably be asked to pay the full 6 months in advance along with a security deposit. Opening a bank account is difficult without proof of address. You'll have to have private insurance for your whole family.


Thank you for your interest and continued help!

Here's what I'm thinking to address these things, let me know if I'm off base. 

We'll spend 1-2 months back in the US per year, and keep health insurance from our home state, we'll need to check their policies on international urgent care. But we will try to fit our routine doctors appts into the 1-2 months at home. 

I don't see any need to open a foreign bank account, will just continue with Bank of America. 

For living arrangements I plan to book a few months at a time using airbnb.com or similar websites, or just looking through the local craigslist. But airbnb is my starting point. I can rent whole houses there at a reasonable cost (the same or less than what I pay for my current morgage) for a month or more at a time.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

> I certainly have never heard of any British custom official ordering the arrest of an American tourist for running such a tiny operation back in his homeland. Drugs, terrorism, multi-millions of dollars, yeah. But what thousands, thousands of travelers are doing, well, let me hear the examples, folks.


Simple. UK immigration officer will look at OP's passport, realises he has been spending a lot of time in UK (and other countries/territories) and will start asking questions about how he funds his travels, bank statement, jobs, etc. If he then states he is running an online business, he will be told it's not allowed, and will be refused entry into UK, no matter how much time he has just spent outside of UK. With a refusal stamp in his passport, it will be very difficult to re-enter UK in the future.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You're trying to circumvent the visa rules. I have no advice for you.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

Joppa said:


> Simple. UK immigration officer will look at OP's passport, realises he has been spending a lot of time in UK (and other countries/territories) and will start asking questions about how he funds his travels, bank statement, jobs, etc. If he then states he is running an online business, he will be told it's not allowed, and will be refused entry into UK, no matter how much time he has just spent outside of UK. With a refusal stamp in his passport, it will be very difficult to re-enter UK in the future.


Good to know. I have 11 months till we leave, so I am going to save up at least $30-$40,000 and have that in the bank account. That way I can honestly answer that I will fund the travels from savings. I will need to spend some time on the business as well so that it doesn't die while I'm gone, but the travels will be funded through savings. 

I know its bending the rules, but I don't want to let the fact that I'll be spending 10 hours a week answering emails online stop me from doing this.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

If worse comes to worse maybe I'll hire a business manager to handle the business. The returns would be lower, but I guess that would make me legal, right nyclon?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

slaterb554 said:


> Good to know. I have 11 months till we leave, so I am going to save up at least $30-$40,000 and have that in the bank account. That way I can honestly answer that I will fund the travels from savings. I will need to spend some time on the business as well so that it doesn't die while I'm gone, but the travels will be funded through savings.
> 
> I know its bending the rules, but I don't want to let the fact that I'll be spending 10 hours a week answering emails online stop me from doing this.


They can take away your laptop and analyse its content, and if it shows you've been running a business, that's enough evidence to refuse you entry.
Remember, UK immigration isn't stupid, has seen this kind of ruse before and will get at the truth sooner or later.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

While we're on the subject, if I am wanting to live in the UK for 6 months as a tourist, is it critical that I have a return ticket already purchased and available to show the immigration officers before we attempt to enter the country? I think I heard that somewhere but I wasn't sure how true it was. 

Would be difficult since we'd be planning to leave the country after 6 months via train to a Schengen area country.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can only stay as a tourist, not live. This is a big difference. You can't set up a home in UK and you must return to your home (in US) after your temporary visit.
Yes, you are expected to show return ticket. If you only have a passage to a Schengen country, they will usually insist on seeing an eventual ticket home to US in addition.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

I guess I'll just buy refundable tickets, I don't want to be locked in to a specific return date. So plan would be, buy refundable return tickets, then leave after 6 months and go to Schengen country, then leave there after 3 months to live outside of Europe, including a 1-2 month stay back in the US, and then repeat the cycle. Hopefully UK lets me in the second time without too much trouble. 

I know this is a naïve question, but if I happen to get an immigration officer in a bad mood who doesn't want to let us in, can we just go spend a week in another country and then come back and try again?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

slaterb554 said:


> I guess I'll just buy refundable tickets, I don't want to be locked in to a specific return date. So plan would be, buy refundable return tickets, then leave after 6 months and go to Schengen country, then leave there after 3 months to live outside of Europe, including a 1-2 month stay back in the US, and then repeat the cycle. Hopefully UK lets me in the second time without too much trouble.
> 
> I know this is a naïve question, but if I happen to get an immigration officer in a bad mood who doesn't want to let us in, can we just go spend a week in another country and then come back and try again?


You're kidding, right? Your refusal will be noted on the system and once refused entry you'll always have issues at immigration. Once refused we recommend applying for a visit visa in advance.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

No i was not kidding. As I have sufficiently demonstrated by now, I have never done this before hence my questions. I am just obviously concerned about the prospect of all the time and investment it will take to make this happen, only to be sitting at the desk with my wife and kids at the mercy of an IO's mood. But I get that this is just part of the package when one wants to travel, so I'll deal with the anxiety.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

What makes you not eligible for a settlement visa? You say have family in the UK...


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Pallykin said:


> What makes you not eligible for a settlement visa? You say have family in the UK...


Because both he and his wife are American.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

nyclon said:


> Because both he and his wife are American.


I interpreted the original post to mean that the rest of the family was eligible to live in the UK, and just the OP was not. Apparently I was wrong...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The OP and his family are all Americans who want to live in UK as much as possible without getting a long-term visa. As they aren't supposed to live in UK as visitors, they need to find ways to bend the rules to make it happen. We are at pains to point out to them that it's not realistic, and sooner or later the UK authorities will become wise to their ruse and will ban them from UK.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Joppa said:


> The OP and his family are all Americans who want to live in UK as much as possible without getting a long-term visa. As they aren't supposed to live in UK as visitors, they need to find ways to bend the rules to make it happen. We are at pains to point out to them that it's not realistic, and sooner or later the UK authorities will become wise to their ruse and will ban them from UK.


Do you and nyclon actually understand that a person handling his online biz that operates in only another country not the UK doesn't violate the spirit of the law in any way, shape or form? That the person is expending only mental effort on a enterprise that does''t exist or operates or functions in the UK In any way, doesn't take anything out of the UK, doesn't take any employment out of the UK, doesn't involve any UK finances at all, and more importantly, that thousands of younger people, more and more every year, are making full or part time income via internet and roaming the world that way, and no government anyway is actually devoting any resources to trying to stop them? You do realize that? Sure, trying to overstay their visas, that is one thing. On the other hand, they are bringing in the money that they are spending in the UK, other than the tens of thousands of others mooching off your public assistance system, just as we have tens of thousands pouring into the US illegally and taking advantage of our assistance system.

Neither U.S. authorities, or from what I've read, UK authorities, can do much to halt these illegal immigrants who enter your country and mine to live off your tax payers and ours.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

Joppa, I'm sorry to have apparently exasperated you with my request for help in accomplishing my goal of residing in the UK as much as legally possible. But, putting the online business aside (which I already stated I would consider outsourcing to a business manager if it was truly a problem, which is still up for debate in my opinion) what is the problem with what I have proposed? 

To recap, its to stay in the UK as a tourist for 6 months, then stay in other parts of europe fo 3 months, then elswehere for 3 months, and then back to the UK for 6 more months as a tourist. Putting my source of income aside, do you see anything wrong with this?

Regarding the income, I came into this discussion with the same opinion as Meritorious-MasoMenos, not really thinking that another government would care so long as I was not taking away employment opportunities for locals or consuming public resources. All I'd be doing is contributing to the local economy. In fact maybe Id just hire a local admin person to handle some of the maintenance work, further contributing. 

However I can see that they may in fact care for some strange reason, so I will try to adjust accordingly. But still not understanding your objection with the plan aside from that issue.


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

I think they were just pointing out to you that the IO will question you and it could be quite a problem with your entire family in tow. They will interpret your situation as trying to live in the UK without benefit of proper visas.

Last year I spent just over four months in the UK split into three visits during a six month period, the longest stretch was three months. I then returned to the US for five and a half months. When I presented myself at immigration requesting a new six month period, I was questioned at length.

I really wasn't trying to circumvent any rules, just spending additional time with my fiancé while waiting to be eligible to apply for our fiancé visa. He was called on his mobile and questioned also to compare our answers, similar but certainly not rehearsed. Similar because we were both telling the truth.

I was allowed into the country, I was also cautioned to not attempt to return again without a proper visa (our plan, so no problem there).

The immigration officers have seen it all and will read between the lines of your situation with ease. They don't care about your lack of causing harm to UK society as much as they want you to follow the same rules as applied to everyone else.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Slater, we had a similar thread recently on the Mexican expat forum, in which a few moderators were acting as if they were Mexican immigration officials, fighting tooth and nail against a few posters who earned beneath the $2,000 a month needed for retired foreigners to live legally full time in Mexico. Posters were saying that all their friends were living full time in Mexico on less than that amount by simply going to the U.S. or across Mexico's southern border every six months for a few days, then re-entering and getting another six-month tourist card, and they wanted to know if they could do it as well.

Oh, totally illegal, some, not all, moderators ranted. I was without opinion on this one, and watched as over the days, other posters pointed out that tens of thousands of Americans and Canadians lived full time in Mexico precisely that way, and that Mexican law did not prohibit the practice, that Mexican border officials could clearly see from the travelers' documents what they were doing. I chimed in around then, pointing out that these foreigners lived solely on capital they brought into the country, foreign exchange that Mexico desperately needs, that they can't take advantage of any of Mexico's social programs, especially medical care, because they weren't legal full time residents, and that it was Mexico's decision to bar them if they really wanted, not the moderators.

We're not talking about advising anyone of illegal activity here. Just, are authorities really intent on banning foreigners from first world countries who bring in all of the income they use in Mexico, or the UK? Now, in the US news this week have been reports of the savage conditions in French cities near the Chunnel, with thousands of Africans camping outside of towns looking for ways to get across the Chunnel illegally into the UK. Once they get, reports said they qualify for a huge array of social programs - housing, medical, schooling, food, and just plain ole income. All free! They riot, fight with each other, French authorities, and always seek ways to hide in trains or trucks making their way into the UK. Now, are border authorities directing resources to halt prosperous first world travelers (not my term, "first world" but it is what it is) from entering legally on tourist visas, or would-be immigrants eager to take advantage of the UK's generous social programs?

And posters being upset over travelers running online businesses back in their home countries is, frankly, a bit absurd. All you are doing is basically thinking, right? Tapping a few keys here and there to move customers along, but basically, some posters are trying to tell you it's illegal to undertake mental activity while you're in the UK that brings in a few coins. That would mean writers and painters couldn't practice their arts or crafts while visiting the UK. UK thought police would break into a hotel room and drag away a famous American novelist. "Sir, we have digital proof that you wrote two chapters of your next novel whilst (I love it when Brits use "whilst on sacred UK grounds! Out with thee!"

And Brits should be the first not to complain. I lived in Manhattan many years, and you always run across dozens of Brits living there without papers, getting work. A lot of French and Germans, as well, Dutch, Scandinavians. It's always possible you'll run into a UK border official who will take offense, I imagine, so that therefore I have to tell you you're a bad boy, and not welcome in the UK.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

slaterb554 said:


> Joppa, I'm sorry to have apparently exasperated you with my request for help in accomplishing my goal of residing in the UK as much as legally possible. But, putting the online business aside (which I already stated I would consider outsourcing to a business manager if it was truly a problem, which is still up for debate in my opinion) what is the problem with what I have proposed?
> 
> To recap, its to stay in the UK as a tourist for 6 months, then stay in other parts of europe fo 3 months, then elswehere for 3 months, and then back to the UK for 6 more months as a tourist. Putting my source of income aside, do you see anything wrong with this?


6 months in, 6 months out is nowhere stated in rules but it's often a handy rule of thumb Home Office uses. Once they realise that you aren't a genuine visitor but trying to live in UK using the visitor route, they are likely to refuse you further entry, which is entirely within their powers and there is no right of appeal, except on human rights grounds, which you don't have.



> Regarding the income, I came into this discussion with the same opinion as Meritorious-MasoMenos, not really thinking that another government would care so long as I was not taking away employment opportunities for locals or consuming public resources. All I'd be doing is contributing to the local economy. In fact maybe Id just hire a local admin person to handle some of the maintenance work, further contributing.


It doesn't matter where your business is located, or whether you take any jobs away in UK. The rule just states no working, and running a US online business counts as working. Since you are proposing to spend half your time in UK, they will expect you to be UK-tax resident and pay income tax on your self-employment. Since you won't be doing that, and you can't be tax-resident as a visitor, it will count as illegal work. As you have found, there is no suitable visa you can apply for to do what you propose, so your plan is unlikely to work (until the authorities catch up with what you are up to). 



> However I can see that they may in fact care for some strange reason, so I will try to adjust accordingly. But still not understanding your objection with the plan aside from that issue.


Remember I and other regulars aren't being nasty and unhelpful. Your proposals aren't unique and we have had a fair few people who tried to do something similar. You can investigate Tier 1 investor or entrepreneur visa, which requires significant investment in UK. UK government wants to attract people who want to sink their own funds in UK, and allowing people to effectively live in UK without financial commitment is not in public interest so you can expect no sympathy.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Meritorious-MasoMenos

UK isn't Mexico, and immigration officers (and others in Home Office) will take steps to exclude people like OP who is trying to live in UK without long-term visa. I have 40+ years of experience dealing with immigration and I don't just invent things. As salix says, immigration officers are highly trained to spot people who are trying to circumvent the rules and have the power to ban people on the strength of their own judgement and take on the situation.


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

Hi there, I clearly agree with the moderators. I also want to point out that there might be a very practical issue at hand: You say you will have 30.000 to 40.000$ in saving, that's something like £18.000 to 25.000. To feed a family (you, your wife and kids) and pay for accomodation, travel insurance, ec. this might likely last you a year. You won't even have the option to come a second cycle around.

The average household income in the UK is £26.000, just pointing that out to help you plan. Travel over here is expensive and I image you hope to actually see something of Europe. There are always ways to live cheaply (I know people who live of a rice and beans diet and share a one room bunk "loft" with 3 others to survive, but this might be not the family friendly environment with an infant you might have in mind).

I myself used to travel in South East Asia for about £3000 a year and when I came to the UK I noticed that I really underestimated the costs of living. I am just putting this out there, as I can see you coming around for a year, but possibly not a second.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

I wholeheartedly agree with Joppa and the other moderators on this. What you are proposing is illegal immigration to the uk. You are not allowed to move your centre of life to uk on a visit visa. If you show up at the border with a return or onward journey ticket to another country six months later you will need to show compelling evidence you will be returning to the USA at the end of your visit and sufficient funds to support yourself without any additional income earned whilst in the uk

If the border agent suspects you will be working they can ask to search your phone and computers for evidence of your activity. The last thing you want to do is lie to the border agent, which is what you are proposing. You will likely get caught in your lie and be deported and banned from uk for 10 years. Do you really want this to happen with your family and all your possessions in tow? If it didn't happen the first time then you raise the risk of it happening again when you return. Do you plan to stay in the uk the entire 6 months and never travel to Europe? It's not like you would be granted a multi entry visa. Every single time you leave and enter you will be requesting entry back into the country.

I'm sorry but your plan on doctor visits is completely ridiculous. I have raised a family and I'm sorry but there is no way you can guarantee your kids will never get sick or have an accident of some kind that requires emergency care. I'm not even sure you could find health insurance to cover international. Most travel policies will only cover for trips a maximum of 60 days trip at a time so that won't even work.

If you are determined to take your family on this grand adventure then find a country in which you can legally work and move your family.


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## hightensionwire (Jun 23, 2014)

UK border agents are pretty on top of their jobs, far more so than US border agents are. They want to make absolutely sure you don't overstay.
I've done several pieces (I'm a journalist) on illegal immigration in the US, and US immigration attorneys always point to the UK immigration system as a superior/more finely tuned model.

The last time I went to the UK I was there for two months, and I was questioned really heavily by the border agent about the duration of my stay. I told him that I was there during my university's winter break and would be returning at the start of the spring semester, and he was pretty skeptical. I ended up having to give him some pretty in depth details about my university, course work, and general academic details until he was satisfied that I was in fact only staying in the UK for two months. 
Given that you'll be traveling with your entire family, I doubt you'll be able to exhibit that you have ties compelling you to return to the US at the end of your stay. If you get let through the first time, its pretty likely that you'll get rejected the second time. The people that get away with doing things like this are generally traveling by themselves, making their lie a little easier to get away with. 
The UK is much tighter about its borders than the US is, and keep in mind, what you're proposing is pretty illegal.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

I was questioned quite intensively (I felt) when I visited last July for a three week holiday, shortly after my job ended. I was taking advantage of the "unlimited" vacation time that being unemployed affords. I was applying for jobs in the US online, with little expectation of anything happening while I was away. Now mind you, this was my first visit since 1998, so 15 years had gone by between my visits. And I had a house and a whole centre of life here in the US to return to. 

I wasn't prepared for this level of questioning... I wonder if I had said I was there for a week or ten days, if that might have made a difference. Probably mentioning that my job had ended was a mis-step. However, the IO, though well prepared for this line of questioning finally let me go because I said I would (hopefully) have a new job in the Autumn. What she was missing is that it takes 6-8+ months to find a job here.


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

I think most of us (not me, but my non EEA husband) have been questioned when entering the UK. The only other country we had similar experiences were Canada - I had an apple without a sticker I forgot about in my jacket pocket. They were all over me over it. Seriously  I honestly forgot, but they kept asking if there was anything else I forgot. It was really awkward. 

Anyway, as I pointed out, he might have to realize that he can't meet the financial side of life in Europe and the officer on the border might want to see some kind of funds when there is a family involved. It doesn't sound like they want to backpack, but rather live somewhere.

I also agree about the doctors visit problem - that's a really good point I haven't quite thought about.

Pallykin, I can really relate to your comment. I am also always worried about saying the wrong stuff. I always stick with the truth, but you can never be sure that that's what they want to hear.


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## hightensionwire (Jun 23, 2014)

JFC said:


> I think most of us (not me, but my non EEA husband) have been questioned when entering the UK. The only other country we had similar experiences were Canada - I had an apple without a sticker I forgot about in my jacket pocket. They were all over me over it. Seriously  I honestly forgot, but they kept asking if there was anything else I forgot. It was really awkward.
> 
> Anyway, as I pointed out, he might have to realize that he can't meet the financial side of life in Europe and the officer on the border might want to see some kind of funds when there is a family involved. It doesn't sound like they want to backpack, but rather live somewhere.


That's definitely an issue. The amount of money he's proposed to have in his savings probably isn't actually enough to appease a border entry officer, either. That's the amount you need to sponsor ONE person in England (going through legal routes anyway). I don't really think 18-20k would last long among such a large family in England. My spouse makes 20k a year and he definitely couldn't singlehandedly support me and one child on that, let alone four.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

My family followed my father's career as his company moved him from Massachusetts to The Hague and then the London area across ten years. My younger sister and I attended 10 different schools between Kindergarten and 12th grade. I was held back twice and skipped ahead twice. Every time we changed countries, the first school we attended was terrible; my parents took advice and were misdirected. I love to travel now, but being the new kid constantly was not fun. I spent a lot of my childhood feeling stupid Monday-Friday because of all the upheaval. (Smart on the weekends...) I should add that we spent a lot of our holiday on the continent - and that part *was* wonderful.

People now say how nice my international upbringing must have been. It would have been okay if we had stayed in the UK rather than moving "back" to Massachusetts (which I barely remembered) when I was 14. Changing countries in mid adolescence made a difficult time of life much, much harder. More stability in schooling would also have made a big difference. I think kids who get to stay in the same school system for the entire span of K through 12 are lucky. The only exception to that would be if the whole family took a year off to travel together when the kids were somewhere between the age of 8 and 12. And then they returned home. But I digress...

The OP would be much better served by focussing on developing his business for a few years and work on qualifying for an entrepreneur visa that would enable his entire family to emigrate legally with him and then stay put except to go on holidays in Europe.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

Thank you for all the constructive advice and comments everyone! I can't tell you how valuable this discussion has been for me. 

As noted I am in the beginning stages of planning the trip which we'll embark on in 11 months from now, so I'll have plenty of time to figure out a way to accomplish this legally. 

I know I am not the only family man who will be living in the UK for the allowed 6 months, so its just a matter of learning how to prepare for the trip and do everything above board so that I can answer any questions honestly. 

Here's what I've learned so far-

1. Don't try to work or have any evidence that I plan to work while in the UK. 
2. Have a savings account ready to show the officials with more than $30k in it, perhaps $60k? I plan to sell my house, so that shouldn't be a problem, I may even be able to set aside more than $60k.
3. Have a Return ticket to the US for 5 1/2 - 6 months after I arrive in the UK. 

I really don't want to break any rules. I am not trying to game the system. I didn't think they would care if I worked 10 hours per week when I initially posted here, but now I understand that they would take that as a threat. 

At this point I simply want to stay for the 6 months that they allow, so any further tips as to how to ensure I will be eligible for that objective would be most welcome. 

I know that plenty of US families do the 6 month UK thing, so please don't tell me I shouldn't be one of them. It's not something I'm going to give up on, I think its a privilege I can be eligible for with proper planning. 

Also, can I get the 6 month tourist visa in advance? Perhaps that would reduce the risk of problems at the entry desk. 

Thanks everyone, I'm new to this forum, but really enjoying it so far.


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## Pallykin (Mar 30, 2014)

Selling your house and not having a job in the US that is tied to here physically may leave you with too few ties to the US to suit the IO...


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

I was just thinking the same thing - the key for tourist visas is that your "center of life" remains in the US - eg. house, job, kids school..


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

Can I ask for how many years you plan on doing this?


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

I would use my parents address in the US for my home address, mail etc. 

If it were up to me I would do the long term travel (nomadic) thing forever, but I my wife and family are on board for 2-3 years. If I can make sure they all enjoy it enough, maybe we'll stretch it longer. We initially want to focus on Europe, but will expand to other places in the second and third year.


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## JFC (Jul 3, 2014)

Just another thought: have you thought about an Irish work and travel visa? There are certain restrictions, but this would allow you to live in Ireland for a year and work legally. I am not sure about the kids or anything like that. I believe there are similar agreements for Australia and beautiful New Zealand in place.


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## hightensionwire (Jun 23, 2014)

slaterb554 said:


> Thank you for all the constructive advice and comments everyone! I can't tell you how valuable this discussion has been for me.
> 
> As noted I am in the beginning stages of planning the trip which we'll embark on in 11 months from now, so I'll have plenty of time to figure out a way to accomplish this legally.
> 
> ...


There's nothing you can do to lessen your hassle at the entry desk, short of following the legal migration steps that the rest of us have done. It is their job to make SURE you're not attempting to make the UK your home, which you are going to have great difficulty doing, being as you will have sold your house, have your entire family in-tow, and happen to be self employed. That's going to get you an immediate rejection, as you have no legitimate ties to the US. 
I don't think scamming the immigration system is a privilege anyone has. You're basically saying that for some reason, you deserve to live in the UK illegally, because you've made this plan to do so? That's awful. You should plan for an entrepreneur visa and take your family abroad legally. If you can't achieve that, then you really haven't properly planned this move to begin with.


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## hightensionwire (Jun 23, 2014)

slaterb554 said:


> I would use my parents address in the US for my home address, mail etc.
> 
> If it were up to me I would do the long term travel (nomadic) thing forever, but I my wife and family are on board for 2-3 years. If I can make sure they all enjoy it enough, maybe we'll stretch it longer. We initially want to focus on Europe, but will expand to other places in the second and third year.


You'd probably have a better chance of getting back into England if you've been traveling around everywhere, but they're still going to wonder where the money's come from, and why you want to stay in England for so long.
I think its easier to get short term work visas in some other countries, though.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

hightensionwire said:


> There's nothing you can do to lessen your hassle at the entry desk, short of following the legal migration steps that the rest of us have done. It is their job to make SURE you're not attempting to make the UK your home, which you are going to have great difficulty doing, being as you will have sold your house, have your entire family in-tow, and happen to be self employed. That's going to get you an immediate rejection, as you have no legitimate ties to the US.
> I don't think scamming the immigration system is a privilege anyone has. You're basically saying that for some reason, you deserve to live in the UK illegally, because you've made this plan to do so? That's awful. You should plan for an entrepreneur visa and take your family abroad legally. If you can't achieve that, then you really haven't properly planned this move to begin with.


Wow. Ok this is just getting funny. Either your not reading what I'm saying or you are just choosing to ignore it. 

I am not trying to scam the system or live there illegally. 

At this point I am just planning to stay for 6 months as a visitor like thousands upon thousands of others do. 

This is legal and I am not a criminal for wanting to visit the UK for 6 months.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

JFC said:


> Just another thought: have you thought about an Irish work and travel visa? There are certain restrictions, but this would allow you to live in Ireland for a year and work legally. I am not sure about the kids or anything like that. I believe there are similar agreements for Australia and beautiful New Zealand in place.


Will definitely look into this, for Ireland, Australia and New Zealand as all three are on the itinerary as places I want to live for 3 months or longer. 

Thank you!


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Sorry but I think this guy is having a laugh and winding you all up 

Ok so he is going to save $40 000 or $60 000 (big difference)

What ties will he have to home? No job! no mortgage!

Where is the next lot of $60 000 going to come from for subsequent years of being nomadic?

The IO will have a field day with him lets face it!!


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

Hertsfem. 

I have a business which will generate income for subsequent years. It sounds like I'll have to fully outsource it during the next 11 months before I leave, which is difficult but possible. 

I have a US address which I'll call home after selling my house. 

I am not sure what the house will sell for next year, but I should come away with at least $40k equity plus my savings, both together will exceed $60k by the time I get to the IO desk. 

As I've said ad nauseam now, after my initial 6 month stay in the UK I'd leave for more than 6 months before returning for another 3-6 months, which is allowed under UK law.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

slaterb554 said:


> Hertsfem.
> 
> I have a business which will generate income for subsequent years. It sounds like I'll have to fully outsource it during the next 11 months before I leave, which is difficult but possible.
> 
> ...


First, I completely understand the appeal of the adventure you are proposing.....I wouldn't mind doing something like that myself. However, in the world as it is now, it an extremely romantic and unrealistic idea, but as you are determined, I wish you luck.

Regarding using your parent's address as "home".....just having an US address doesn't exhibit strong ties. You don't own it or pay for it, so it means nothing to the IO regarding your intent to return to the US. You could easily walk away and have your mail sent somewhere else.

I know it appears like everyone here is giving you a hard time but we really aren't. We are just pointing out the reality of the immigration situation as it now stands. Personally, I wish we could go back to the days of Hemmingway, when you could travel wherever and whenever you wanted, but I know that isn't possible. I hope you will continue your research and find a legal, safe way of traveling with your family.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

Water Dragon said:


> First, I completely understand the appeal of the adventure you are proposing.....I wouldn't mind doing something like that myself. However, in the world as it is now, it an extremely romantic and unrealistic idea, but as you are determined, I wish you luck.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks Water Dragon. It's ok, I don't think people are just trying to give me a hard time, I think they're trying to educate me, which I appreciate. And I am learning, which is great.
> ...


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## hightensionwire (Jun 23, 2014)

slaterb554 said:


> Water Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > First, I completely understand the appeal of the adventure you are proposing.....I wouldn't mind doing something like that myself. However, in the world as it is now, it an extremely romantic and unrealistic idea, but as you are determined, I wish you luck.
> ...


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## hightensionwire (Jun 23, 2014)

I don't doubt you can travel around a multitude of European countries for an extended period of time, but you need to be aware of the particular immigration policies of specific countries. The fact that you want to make England your sort of return to base that will be your biggest issue here. You may get through the first time, but I really don't think the border officers are gonna be too keen on letting you back in the second time. Especially if you haven't been back to the US for an extended period of time, and lack any strong ties. The UK will probably be the country that gives you the biggest hassle at the border.


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## slaterb554 (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks hightensionwire, good points. 

Any more specifics on which countries might make a better home base due to reasons you listed? I had picked UK because I really love it there, its English speaking so less culture shock for the kids, and because they will allow a 6 month stay vs. 3 month stay. 

I checked into the Ireland Holiday Work Visa thing but that is only for folks under 30, so I don't qualify.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

You are right. This is the wrong forum to post your questions. On this forum no one will advise you on ways to circumvent the immigration laws. What you are proposing might work the first six months as many people can fund a trip around the world after selling their house but without additional income it will be impossible to continue that much longer (if that). 

What would you do if you get turned away at the border after you have sold your house and have no home to return to? I would like to see you 'splain that one to the wife....


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## grammymissy (Jun 21, 2009)

Before we retired, we visited the UK 4 times a year, 2 weeks at a time. Due to so many entries, we are questioned every time, having to show proof of return tickets, etc. now that we retired, it has gotten worse, even though we have a house in US, no job... We stayed in the UK 3 months this past summer, and it took forever to convince them we were leaving. Believe me, if three months triggers questions, your 6 month visit is going to be a problem..... We went to Portugal for 3 months after the UK visit for 3 months and then stopped in UK on way back to US, for 10 day visit, they did not want to let us in, they wanted us to go back to US for at least 6 months before trying again. They said we had been out of US for 6 months between UK and Portugal visits....we finally did convince them, but it was a struggle. Not doing that again... They are going to want to see 6 months back in US between visits to them, not to other European countries.......


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