# Special Needs...



## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi there. We are looking intothe idea of relocating to Spain and a few questions spring Immediately to mind. Does anyone have experience of special needs pro vision for children.We have an Aspergic Child,basically high functioning with a high IQ but he battles socially. , was thinking that perhaps home Schooling would be a way for ward For our 3-a q year old and 7 year old twins. They all thrive in the sun and we feel that a warmer climate would do them wonders, but there is so much more to consider.. any advice or thoughts on special needs in Spain and /or home schooling would be gratefully received. Also, my hubby runs a painting / decorating business and we were wondering if anyone has any experience of relocating this type of business - what would the local market be like-are there already too many offering this type of service? Thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nicvan said:


> Hi there. We are looking intothe idea of relocating to Spain and a few questions spring Immediately to mind. Does anyone have experience of special needs pro vision for children.We have an Aspergic Child,basically high functioning with a high IQ but he battles socially. , was thinking that perhaps home Schooling would be a way for ward For our 3-a q year old and 7 year old twins. They all thrive in the sun and we feel that a warmer climate would do them wonders, but there is so much more to consider.. any advice or thoughts on special needs in Spain and /or home schooling would be gratefully received. Also, my hubby runs a painting / decorating business and we were wondering if anyone has any experience of relocating this type of business - what would the local market be like-are there already too many offering this type of service? Thanks


Look at these threads
Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad - Search Results

PS Special needs ed in a special centre would probably be for severe cases.
In any case these schools and state primary/ secondary schools teach almost exclusively in Spanish or local language.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Home schooling isn't legal in Spain although there are always a few who do it. Look at the FAQs, number 3 and there's some info about education and I believe there's something about homeschooling there.


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

Hmmm, thanks, I will check where you suggest. Looks like it would have to be either Internatonal school or illegal home schooling. I will look further into it. Thanks


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

Can't find FAQ 3 as you mention, but did find some other info and other threads. Someone mentioned that schooling in Gibraltar is in English and the kids learn Spanish. Does anyone know anything about this option? Also, are the laws 're homeschooling the same in Gibraltar as in Spain?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Go back to the main page, where you go if you want to post a new thread. Just below post a new thread you have some stickies and one of those is FAQ. Number three is about education. 
I'm afraid I know litle about Gib, but I think it's schools are pretty full. You could try seraching Gibraltar as we have lots of posts about it


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

nicvan said:


> Can't find FAQ 3 as you mention, but did find some other info and other threads. Someone mentioned that schooling in Gibraltar is in English and the kids learn Spanish. Does anyone know anything about this option? Also, are the laws 're homeschooling the same in Gibraltar as in Spain?


here's a link to the thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html

post #3 has lots of education links


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

You might be surprised on how well kids with what we perceive as 'special needs' do in mainstream education especially if they are intelligent anyway. There is one lad (British), locally who has cerebral palsy but is in the normal school and copes extremely well and becasue he makes the effort to mix, the other children give him help and support when he needs it - as a side-effect, it is good for them, too!


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

*Thanks*

Thanks for your comment - I do agree with you. All 3 of mine are in mainstream and are coping, although with minor incidences fairly often. Generally things are currently managable. Both of my boys are ASD (Aspergers, ODD, with my youngest also having ADHD, dyslexia and dyspraxia - both have various sensory processing issues too) and both are high functioning with quite high IQ's. They are lovely children, but do have trouble coping at times. Both boys battle in social situations and find it hard to make new friends so putting them into a new school where they don't necessarily understand the language is going to be very difficult for them and likely to result in all sorts of 'incidences' and loss of control, etc..

I do believe that the sun would work wonders for them, but at the same time, a major move like this is also likely to be very difficult for them. What to do... and this is why I am concerned about the educational side and why the questions regarding home schooling - even if only until they settle down in the new environment.

They do need to learn how to cope generally in life so we try not to coddle them too much, but sometimes it is so hard to know what is for the best.

Thanks all




baldilocks said:


> You might be surprised on how well kids with what we perceive as 'special needs' do in mainstream education especially if they are intelligent anyway. There is one lad (British), locally who has cerebral palsy but is in the normal school and copes extremely well and becasue he makes the effort to mix, the other children give him help and support when he needs it - as a side-effect, it is good for them, too!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Your first priority is funding, you now have to show savings or proof of earnings to live in Spain and the likelihood of your husband finding work now is slim, the property market has collapsed and there is massive unemployment amongst the Spanish population


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

With the exception of very, very severe cases most kids with special needs are mainstreamed into normal Spanish classes. Extremely severe cases, at least in my region, receive special attention at a special school. The belief here is that children should be mainstreamed, something very different from my experience back in the US. 

Each school SHOULD have: 
AL - Audición y Lenguaje - Speech therapy
PT - Pedagogía Terapeutica - Basically Special Ed

If your child has special educational needs, they will likely receive attention from the AL or PT at least once a week. This means they will be taken out of the mainstream class for an hour a day (or week, or whatnot). I've also seen in-class aides, but this seems to be cut back now with all the cuts in education.

Investigate, investigate, investigate. I've seen kids with needs not be met because there's only one AL or PT in a huge school and the guidance department must pick and choose. Research your schools. 

I think the kids really can benefit from mainstreaming, just make sure to research where they will go.


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

bob_bob said:


> Your first priority is funding, you now have to show savings or proof of earnings to live in Spain and the likelihood of your husband finding work now is slim, the property market has collapsed and there is massive unemployment amongst the Spanish population


Thanks for that info - I wasn't aware of that. Our plan is to have an independant income so the hope is that we wouldn't be looking for work in Spain. Of course we need to get that all in place and running smoothly before moving anywhere, but plans need to be made and questions asked before we go too much further. Just looking and asking the questions right now to see if the plan would be feasible.

Many thanks
Nic


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nicvan said:


> Thanks for your comment - I do agree with you. All 3 of mine are in mainstream and are coping, although with minor incidences fairly often. Generally things are currently managable. Both of my boys are ASD (Aspergers, ODD, with my youngest also having ADHD, dyslexia and dyspraxia - both have various sensory processing issues too) and both are high functioning with quite high IQ's. They are lovely children, but do have trouble coping at times. Both boys battle in social situations and find it hard to make new friends so putting them into a new school where they don't necessarily understand the language is going to be very difficult for them and likely to result in all sorts of 'incidences' and loss of control, etc..
> 
> I do believe that the sun would work wonders for them, but at the same time, a major move like this is also likely to be very difficult for them. What to do... and this is why I am concerned about the educational side and why the questions regarding home schooling - even if only until they settle down in the new environment.
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you brought this up.
This to me is the key. I have no personal experience of children with these kinds of special needs, but I do have experience, a long time ago, of working in a bilingual school in Colombia. I had to give special help to a boy who was failing in primary school and my heart went out to him. He was not a bad kid, he didn't have any educational problems, he just wasn't a great language learner and wasn't particularly academic. In a Spanish speaking school he'd have been a solid average pupil. In the bilingual setting he was failing at 10 years old.
Bilingual education is a status symbol in Colombia as it often is here, so the parents couldn't lose face and send him to a different school, so to satisfy his parents wishes they were making him a failure.
Now, don't take offence 'cos I'm not saying this is what you're doing or going to do. You are after all making enquiries on this forum and looking at different options.
My own opinion is, if your sons have educational problems they would be better going to an international or British school, but obviously that's without having info about your sons needs and problems. If that's not on the books perhaps look into the possibility of prolonged stays here


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm glad that you brought this up.
> This to me is the key. I have no personal experience of children with these kinds of special needs, but I do have experience, a long time ago, of working in a bilingual school in Colombia. I had to give special help to a boy who was failing in primary school and my heart went out to him. He was not a bad kid, he didn't have any educational problems, he just wasn't a great language learner and wasn't particularly academic. In a Spanish speaking school he'd have been a solid average pupil. In the bilingual setting he was failing at 10 years old.
> Bilingual education is a status symbol in Colombia as it often is here, so the parents couldn't lose face and send him to a different school, so to satisfy his parents wishes they were making him a failure.
> Now, don't take offence 'cos I'm not saying this is what you're doing or going to do. You are after all making enquiries on this forum and looking at different options.
> My own opinion is, if your sons have educational problems they would be better going to an international or British school, but obviously that's without having info about your sons needs and problems. If that's not on the books perhaps look into the possibility of prolonged stays here



didn't we have another poster recently who home-schools, who eventually came to the conclusion that long (less than 90 day) visits were the best solution?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> didn't we have another poster recently who home-schools, who eventually came to the conclusion that long (less than 90 day) visits were the best solution?


I don't remember, but my memory is having a long vacation on another planet and has no plans to come back in the forseeable future...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't remember, but my memory is having a long vacation on another planet and has no plans to come back in the forseeable future...


oh dear....


my brain gets like that sometimes - I sent one of my groups a message at the weekend that Tuesday 9th Feb's class was cancelled.................


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> oh dear....
> 
> 
> my brain gets like that sometimes - I sent one of my groups a message at the weekend that Tuesday 9th Feb's class was cancelled.................


and was it?


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> didn't we have another poster recently who home-schools, who eventually came to the conclusion that long (less than 90 day) visits were the best solution?


I saw that post - are you saying that if we stayed for up to 90 days and then came back to the UK, then back for up to 90 days we could probably get away with home schooling?

It is something which we have looked into (home schooling) and for now (in the UK) have discounted the thought as we would like they boys to learn as much as they can about the 'real' world - after all they will need to be able to function in it when they grow up so as much exposure as possible is key in my opinion (they learn by watching others) so isolation is not really a good idea - however, my gut feeling is that while they would probably adapt really well and would learn to fit in, it would be a harder transition than for most.

Thanks
Nic


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm glad that you brought this up.
> This to me is the key. I have no personal experience of children with these kinds of special needs, but I do have experience, a long time ago, of working in a bilingual school in Colombia. I had to give special help to a boy who was failing in primary school and my heart went out to him. He was not a bad kid, he didn't have any educational problems, he just wasn't a great language learner and wasn't particularly academic. In a Spanish speaking school he'd have been a solid average pupil. In the bilingual setting he was failing at 10 years old.
> Bilingual education is a status symbol in Colombia as it often is here, so the parents couldn't lose face and send him to a different school, so to satisfy his parents wishes they were making him a failure.
> Now, don't take offence 'cos I'm not saying this is what you're doing or going to do. You are after all making enquiries on this forum and looking at different options.
> My own opinion is, if your sons have educational problems they would be better going to an international or British school, but obviously that's without having info about your sons needs and problems. If that's not on the books perhaps look into the possibility of prolonged stays here


No offence taken - I appreciate the time taken to respond. The last thing I want is for any child to feel a failure for whatever reason - and sadly my 2 boys are perhaps more vulnerable to this than others would be. But then again, they do surprise us sometimes.

I don't think we would be able to afford the international school fees for 3 children - although we would dearly love to, so we need to either perhaps look at a different country, or another solution - hence the initial comment about home schooling.

Thanks
Nic


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

nicvan said:


> I saw that post - are you saying that if we stayed for up to 90 days and then came back to the UK, then back for up to 90 days we could probably get away with home schooling?
> 
> It is something which we have looked into (home schooling) and for now (in the UK) have discounted the thought as we would like they boys to learn as much as they can about the 'real' world - after all they will need to be able to function in it when they grow up so as much exposure as possible is key in my opinion (they learn by watching others) so isolation is not really a good idea - however, my gut feeling is that while they would probably adapt really well and would learn to fit in, it would be a harder transition than for most.
> 
> ...


yes I think you could

if you're here less than 90 days at a time you're 'officially' on holiday - no requirement to register as resident - so Spain would have no legal reason to get involved - & since you'd still be officially resident in the UK & home-schooling is legal there - you do the maths 

you'd need to be careful that you were here less than 183 days in a calendar year though, because then you'd be tax resident & it could be argued that you were 'resident resident' too....if you see what I mean


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> and was it?


She probably can't remember!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> She probably can't remember!!


I've no idea.... I meant Tuesday 9th April


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## nicvan (Apr 9, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> yes I think you could
> 
> if you're here less than 90 days at a time you're 'officially' on holiday - no requirement to register as resident - so Spain would have no legal reason to get involved - & since you'd still be officially resident in the UK & home-schooling is legal there - you do the maths
> 
> you'd need to be careful that you were here less than 183 days in a calendar year though, because then you'd be tax resident & it could be argued that you were 'resident resident' too....if you see what I mean


Lol, getting complicated now... what to do with the other 6 months of the year...hmmm


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## PPS (Apr 14, 2014)

I do think this is a tricky issue to be definite about. Educational needs are, in my opinion, subjective, they vary from individual to individual, even if they share the same diagnosis i.e. two students who may have a diagnosis of ADHD for example may need to be supported in very different ways. I think it varies so much from person to person and school to school. Class size, teacher experience with SpLDs, support available, language, routine, behavioural management ethos etc... the list goes on but careful consideration of the individual and the school can often lead to success for students in education. My knowledge of the international support out with of the UK is limited but something I find very interesting,


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

nicvan said:


> Can't find FAQ 3 as you mention, but did find some other info and other threads. Someone mentioned that schooling in Gibraltar is in English and the kids learn Spanish. Does anyone know anything about this option? Also, are the laws 're homeschooling the same in Gibraltar as in Spain?



I would be very wary of any International School that claimed to cater for children with any sort of 'special need' (be it the likes of Aspergers or a child of extremely high intelligence). Schools with high fees and perhaps dwindling numbers will tell you what you want to hear. If you were to go down the International School root ask to spend time at the school & witness the specialist teachers in action etc. 
As for Gib we half heartedly looked into that for our next move. The education is free (which I only just found out!), and in English, to Gib residents. BUT the cost of the accommodation is prohibitively high (for the quality on offer) & apparently there is a shortage of apartments?! 
My guess would be homeschooling would be legal in Gib as it is not Spain? But I don't know.
I am not sure how you would fair school cost wise if you lived just out of Gib (in the cheaper La Linea for example) and commuted every day to school? As, like I said, the free education was for Gib residents.


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## PPS (Apr 14, 2014)

angil said:


> If you were to go down the International School root ask to spend time at the school & witness the specialist teachers in action etc.


I would second this rather than promoting either private or state education in any location. Speaking with regard to the UK in my experience support for special needs in schools varies massively from school to school regardless of whether it is fee paying or not...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

This thread is a year old, isn't it...i wonder if the OP made itto Spain.
The idea of repeated journeys back and forth to the UK to avoid Spanish laws re home schooling concerns me. Stability is vital for children without ESN and even more so for those with conditions such as the OP describes.
I was Head of a UK school where such students were taught mainstream with additional support if 'statemented', which obliged the school to provide such support. We had pupils who had a whole day support from a trained Teaching Assistant. 
In my experience home schooling is not a viable option and in most cases is positively harmful to the child's academic and social development.

I'm surprised not more was said about employment in all this...apart from the fact that the OP's partner was very unlikely to find work.

It would be nice to hear from the OP..who knows, they may have found a viable solution and are in a position to be able to give advice to others.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> I would be very wary of any International School that claimed to cater for children with any sort of 'special need' (be it the likes of Aspergers or a child of extremely high intelligence). Schools with high fees and perhaps dwindling numbers will tell you what you want to hear. If you were to go down the International School root ask to spend time at the school & witness the specialist teachers in action etc.
> As for Gib we half heartedly looked into that for our next move. The education is free (which I only just found out!), and in English, to Gib residents. BUT the cost of the accommodation is prohibitively high (for the quality on offer) & apparently there is a shortage of apartments?!
> My guess would be homeschooling would be legal in Gib as it is not Spain? But I don't know.
> I am not sure how you would fair school cost wise if you lived just out of Gib (in the cheaper La Linea for example) and commuted every day to school? As, like I said, the free education was for Gib residents.



To qualify for education in Gibraltar you must own or rent property there. I have a friend whose son commutes from Spain but her partner works and rents an apartment in Gib in which he now lives from Monday to Friday to avoid border queues.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

It was what one of the Principals told me when I enquired for my son re: school fees / admission. "Schools are free if you are resident in Gibraltar". I took that as being resident resident! But thank you for clarifying. By the by, now; rents are too high for what you get, even if Morrisons is a walk away!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> It was what one of the Principals told me when I enquired for my son re: school fees / admission. "Schools are free if you are resident in Gibraltar". I took that as being resident resident! But thank you for clarifying. By the by, now; rents are too high for what you get, even if Morrisons is a walk away!


Agreed...but my friends have loads of dosh, he works in the financial sector and they own several properties in Spain.
But even if I had any money myself, I wouldn't live in Gibraltar. I can't stand the place.
Strange how a few metres of tarmac can take you into another world.
Gibraltar, in spite of all its rumoured concentration of wealth, seems to me to resemble Great Yarmouth or some other run- down seaside town on heat.
Mind you, it is the complete opposite of Marbella in the effect it has on me. I always feel as if I'm too old, not elegant or thin enough and too poor for Marbella....but Gibraltar, with its overweight,poorly-dressed burger- munching B and H smoking crowd makes me feel as if I'm Kate Moss in comparison.
That is a rather snobby comment, I know...queue on the right to slap my wrist:


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Me and my daughter hated Gibraltar on sight! She more than me! It felt "too British & stand offish" being her opinion. In time the place has grown on me, like a wart probably!! (Compared to where we live now the folks in Gibraltar fair very favourably. Marbella feels more familiar! Bits of it remind me of Busan, the last city we lived in Korea with prices to match!)
It was out of laziness rather than any real desire to live there that I enquired about schools etc. Gib being the closest with English speaking schools & sunshine! We would have needed to verify the tax situation, as you may know we will be leaving Spain because of that. I did think it might be an option. But its the silly rents!! We would be paying 3 lots at that point; hubby in Korea, daughter at Uni & me/son/dog somewhere else! 
So unless the bottom drops out of their bizarrely booming economy Gib will remain somewhere I pop to for the novelty of shopping in Morrisons until we leave! I am still in that mode! Its like coming out of prison or an institution, after that long living somewhere so different such is Korea! Someone needs to teach me how to just buy one tube of toothpaste & not one years worth!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> This thread is a year old, isn't it...*i wonder if the OP made itto Spain*.
> The idea of repeated journeys back and forth to the UK to avoid Spanish laws re home schooling concerns me. Stability is vital for children without ESN and even more so for those with conditions such as the OP describes.
> I was Head of a UK school where such students were taught mainstream with additional support if 'statemented', which obliged the school to provide such support. We had pupils who had a whole day support from a trained Teaching Assistant.
> In my experience home schooling is not a viable option and in most cases is positively harmful to the child's academic and social development.
> ...


The OP moved to the Turkey forum and her husband changed from being a painter and decorator to "_My husband is a program manager for an energy company in the UK_" a multi talented chap.


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