# So here is a fun issue..



## KenzoXIV (Nov 13, 2013)

Looking to you BBCWatcher for some more A1 advice!

I am currently employed in UK and live in Sicily. I work by doing admin stuff over the internet and effectively as a secretary taking phone calls. 

I am paid by my boss into a UK bank account currently and earn just over minimum wage. (All is above board tax and NI wise in UK).

So how does this work income tax wise in Italy.. Do I need to declare? Where and how do I declare if I do need to?

Can I just stay as I am paying tax and NI in UK and register for health care here?

All and any advice welcome.

Thanks all

Kenzo


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Legally, you are performing work while residing in Italy. You should be paying taxes _on your worldwide income_ into the Italian system.

What is your status in Italy? Are you legally resident? How long have you been there? How long do you intend to remain?

A couple of helpful links:

Income taxes abroad - Italy

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-italy


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## KenzoXIV (Nov 13, 2013)

accbgb said:


> Legally, you are performing work while residing in Italy. You should be paying taxes _on your worldwide income_ into the Italian system.
> 
> What is your status in Italy? Are you legally resident? How long have you been there? How long do you intend to remain?
> 
> ...


I am resident here and married to an Italian, we have been here since September but have only been resident one week, and we are staying for the long haul.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

KenzoXIV said:


> I am resident here and married to an Italian, we have been here since September but have only been resident one week, and we are staying for the long haul.


For the part-year September-December, 2015, you should be paying taxes on the income earned from work performed while you were resident in Italy.

For calendar year 2016 (when you will presumably spend more than 183 days in Italy and thus "tax resident", you will owe taxes on your worldwide income, regardless of where the work was performed.

Since your earnings are "just over minimum wage" your tax liability will not be great. I suggest you find a local commercialista to assist you with your taxes the first few years. There are also public, free, services that can help. Ask around.


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## Newstart2016 (Jan 20, 2016)

Quite envious of your position ...I would love to find a job that would pay me to live in Italy.
I used to work for the NHS 111 service as a nurse but they sadly don't do that remotely !
Best wishes


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## KenzoXIV (Nov 13, 2013)

Newstart2016 said:


> Quite envious of your position ...I would love to find a job that would pay me to live in Italy.
> I used to work for the NHS 111 service as a nurse but they sadly don't do that remotely !
> Best wishes


Hey,

Yeah I am very fortunate. The downside is my boss is my brother but it all works out in the end.

How are your plans going? 

Anything we can help with?

Kenzo


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## KenzoXIV (Nov 13, 2013)

accbgb said:


> For the part-year September-December, 2015, you should be paying taxes on the income earned from work performed while you were resident in Italy.
> 
> For calendar year 2016 (when you will presumably spend more than 183 days in Italy and thus "tax resident", you will owe taxes on your worldwide income, regardless of where the work was performed.
> 
> Since your earnings are "just over minimum wage" your tax liability will not be great. I suggest you find a local commercialista to assist you with your taxes the first few years. There are also public, free, services that can help. Ask around.


Hi all,

Even more fun. So after discussions with my brother we have decided I should go self employed and arrange to pay taxes as such here as a self employed person who invoices my brother for services offered, however what is a relatively simple process in the UK seems quite difficult here.... no surprise there then!

I seem to also be having trouble finding accountants willing to help... it seems like this is far too complicated for them.. not sure whether to laugh or cry but they keep saying it is possible but they are not willing to help with it.. I am not quite sure why... am I in some sort of legal grey area or is it simply out of their expertise... I don't know. 

Either way any help greatly appreciated.

Kenzo


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just a thought here - if you'll be working for your brother, it's your brother's company/business that is responsible for all the tax and accounting aspect of your employment. (I.e. they can't deduct what he pays you unless it's properly set up). 

If you're an employee proper, you'll have to register with whatever kind of tax number Italy uses. If you're going to be "self-employed" then you need to register your business in some manner in Italy. Even a one-person business generally needs to be registered with the appropriate government authorities to assure that you'll pay your social insurances, taxes and (often most importantly) VAT. You probably need to check on what those registration requirements are - and then if you need to find an accountant, it will be one for your business rather than for you personally.
Cheers,
Bev


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## KenzoXIV (Nov 13, 2013)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just a thought here - if you'll be working for your brother, it's your brother's company/business that is responsible for all the tax and accounting aspect of your employment. (I.e. they can't deduct what he pays you unless it's properly set up).
> 
> If you're an employee proper, you'll have to register with whatever kind of tax number Italy uses. If you're going to be "self-employed" then you need to register your business in some manner in Italy. Even a one-person business generally needs to be registered with the appropriate government authorities to assure that you'll pay your social insurances, taxes and (often most importantly) VAT. You probably need to check on what those registration requirements are - and then if you need to find an accountant, it will be one for your business rather than for you personally.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Yeah you are right but we are only a two man operation and in all honesty he is helping me out with my life in Italy so I can't really afford him the extra headache of setting up all the tax issues. 

We want to do it right but I am the guy that needs to do it, unfortunately I am both young and ignorant and not really sure who to talk to about it. The whole point of going self employed was in the belief paying tax here would be easier this way (and hopefully cheaper) although to be honest I can't get my head around it. My Italian is conversational at best and I get lost in most websites offering information!

Does anyone know any English speaking accountants I could fire an e-mail to to try and have a conversation about it?

Kenzo


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Trying to handle stuff here by e-mail can be a "challenge" at the best of times. Ask your brother if he has had any dealings with the local Chamber of Commerce (or something like that). Here in France, the CCI (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie) is an official quasi-governmental organization that usually has LOTS of information and assistance for anyone looking to set themselves up in business. I don't know how Italy has organized these things, but it's certainly worth a try. They may or may not have anyone who speaks English available but the big advantage is that, at least the preliminary steps are often free.
Cheers,
Bev


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

I would be especially careful regarding VAT. Not only might it add a significant expense to (ultimately) your UK employer, but if not done right from the get-go, you could face a huge tax bill a few years down the road.


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## KenzoXIV (Nov 13, 2013)

accbgb said:


> I would be especially careful regarding VAT. Not only might it add a significant expense to (ultimately) your UK employer, but if not done right from the get-go, you could face a huge tax bill a few years down the road.


Thanks, yeah that is what I am concerned about. 

A lot of people in Sicily just say don't declare anything and hide it all in the UK but even if that was possible I am just not that sort of person. I want to do it right its just so hard being passed around the municipal buildings all the time and because we are in a small town, it can be an hour drive to the nearest 'parent' town, I had to drive from our town to Termini Immerse (around an hour drive) just to get an 'Official Translation' done for my marriage certificate...

Still when you sign up for life in the hills I guess thats what you need to expect!

Kenzo


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## Arturo.c (Aug 15, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> Here in France, the CCI (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie) is an official quasi-governmental organization that usually has LOTS of information and assistance for anyone looking to set themselves up in business. I don't know how Italy has organized these things, but it's certainly worth a try.


Actually there is the same kind of organisation in Italy, it's called "Camera di Commercio, Industria, Artigianato e Agricoltura", or CCIAA for short. If you are in business it is mandatory to register with them. In exchange they do provide all sorts of services to entrepreneurs.

It should also be kept in mind that there is a "Double Taxation Convention" in force between the UK and Italy since 1991, meaning nasically that anybody residing in either country and doing business in the other one can declare his earnings in the tax system of his choice.


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