# Autonomo/freelance visa requirements based upon savings



## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

Hi all,

I've already made a thread about different visa options but I have a specific question about autonomo/freelance visa requirements and it would be great if anyone is able to offer any guidance.
Non lucrative visa and remote working

I'm being advised by a couple of different Spanish immigration lawyers to apply for a non-lucrative visa and to work remotely in Spain. But based upon the advice I received in my last thread, I don't think this option is suitable - at least long-term, as I intend to stay in Spain until I can apply for citizenship. I certainly don't want to be non-compliant with my visa requirements and find myself being refused renewal.

So my current plan is to apply for a freelance visa and become an autonomo.

My question is, how likely is my visa application to be approved, if I don't have solid freelance contracts in place, but I do have more than sufficient funds in savings to cover my time in the country and the social security payments I'd be subject to?

Ideally, my current employer (permanent UK contract) will allow me to work remotely in Spain and for me to invoice them on a monthly basis. This would presumably be enough to meet the visa requirements regardless of savings.

But if that doesn't happen, and I'm unable to show guaranteed contract offers, would savings alone likely be enough?

If it makes any difference, my proffession is in sales and I suspect that any freelance contracts I'll be able to show the consultate would be on a commission only basis, so no guaranteed income, but prospective income.

2nd question - I understand that there can be potential issues with having only one, consistent employer as an autonomo, which the Spanish tax authorities could view as an employer shirking employee contributions - is there a workaround for this? Would for instance, getting an occasional bit of revenue from a second employer keep the authorities happy? 

Thanks in advance.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Odoyle said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've already made a thread about different visa options but I have a specific question about autonomo/freelance visa requirements and it would be great if anyone is able to offer any guidance.
> Non lucrative visa and remote working
> ...


Why do you want Spanish citizenship? Do you have affiliations with country?. Is it not a bit soon to think like that as you would need at least 10 years in Spain and that might involve many twists and turns along the way. It's quite a commitment of intent as it means relinquishing your UK citizenship and adopting and integrating into a different society and culture that you would essentially be embracing as a personal identity. I take it you speak Spanish as you cant really seize a citizenship without at least being able to speak fluently the tongue of your adopted country


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

kaipa said:


> Why do you want Spanish citizenship? Do you have affiliations with country?. Is it not a bit soon to think like that as you would need at least 10 years in Spain and that might involve many twists and turns along the way. It's quite a commitment of intent as it means relinquishing your UK citizenship and adopting and integrating into a different society and culture that you would essentially be embracing as a personal identity. I take it you speak Spanish as you cant really seize a citizenship without at least being able to speak fluently the tongue of your adopted country


Hi Kaipa,

That's a fair question. Basically, I'm sick of the UK and want to leave.

I like the Spanish culture and climate, and I also have work ties there. I'm learning Spanish but I'm a long way off being fluent.

You're probably right that citizenship isn't my pressing concern - it's permanent residency that I'm seeking. 

Although I understand that there are no certainties, 
I plan to stay for 5 years so that I no longer have to worry about whether my visa will be renewed, and so that I have the same working rights as Spaniards.

I know that the unemployment situation is pretty bad, but I have little doubt I'd be able to find work in my profession, providing sponsorship wasn't required.

Once I've got PR I can start to think about citizenship - but really, I don't want to come back to the UK so I don't have any issues with renouncing my passport


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I understand how you might feel but having met so many people who have initially made the same decision as you only to find themselves disappointed it makes me want to delve deeper into these issues. For example, what is it that disappoints you about the UK?


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

kaipa said:


> I understand how you might feel but having met so many people who have initially made the same decision as you only to find themselves disappointed it makes me want to delve deeper into these issues. For example, what is it that disappoints you about the UK?


It's an interesting question "what disappointed you about the uk?". In all the years ive been in spain ive heard so many people say they arr disappointed with the uk. Likewise people say, as did the OP that they love Spanish culture.

I can honestly say I'm settled, integrated 100% and content in spain. In love with the country too. But, i work, I pay my mortgage, i am comfortable but not rich. I lead a normal life. Is Spanish life now the same as i saw in my dreams all those years ago, the dreams that lead me to build my life here? No. Its quite different in so many ways. Its great but it's not the holiday lifestyle that i always thought of 20 years ago.

Life in Spain presents its own challenges, it requires that we adapt, accept, understand differences. Its hot blistering summers and cold winters. It's work, its bills, it's very different (in a very positive way) to the UK but presents its own difficulties along the way. So it would be really interesting to hear, as you say, what the OP hates about the uk and hpw they see life differently here. 

The OP says they love Spanish culture and again, more for curiosity, id love to hear what that meams to them. What is spanish culture? I married to a spaniard, work in a Spanish company and apart from popping onto this forum or occasionally having a drink with the few "expat" friends i have from various countries, everything in my life is spanish and around spanish people. There are cultural differences in spain. Thats clear. There are different ways of life, different traditions, different values. But what is spanish culture thats so appealing and brings people to live here?

Is it the lazy afternoons sipping a cold drink? Is it the siesta? Is it the cheap menu del dia? Is it the romantic sight of old couples casually strolling along the beach without a care in the world? Im jist curious what people mean when thry say spanish culture and whether they say this based on dreams or knowledge of reality!


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

There seems to be a wealth of information on the topic out there.

These two originate from Montreal Canada and Los Angeles but will essentially be the same for all non EU nationals.



http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/MONTREAL/en/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Documents/Visados%20de%20larga%20duracion/Residence%20and%20work%20visa%20as%20a%20self-employed%20worker.pdf








SELF-EMPLOYMENT WORK VISA







www.exteriores.gob.es


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MataMata said:


> There seems to be a wealth of information on the topic out there.
> 
> These two originate from Montreal Canada and Los Angeles but will essentially be the same for all non EU nationals.
> 
> ...


The link to the visa section of the London Spanish Consulate is 'stuck' to the top of the page.


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

Thanks all.

I've already read through the visa requirements on the consulate website and have trawled through every Balcells Group article. I've unsuccessfully tried to reach out to BG but I'll try again.

I was hoping that someone might have experience with the autonomo application process as the requirements seem a little vague to me. Most sources state that you need to put a business case together, although they're not clear on how this should be structured, or on what's vital.

Theoretically, if I'm paying in to the Spanish tax system and can prove that I will have the means to support myself, even if/when work is slow, I'm not sure why the authorities would have a problem.

And in regards to my reasoning, I'm sick of the political climate in the UK and think that everything is going to get worse post-brexit.

I like the slower pace of life in Spain, smaller and more manageable cities, climate, food, architecture and history. But ultimately, I don't really see the problem - if I moved to Spain and didn't like it, I could just move back to the UK.

I just want to make sure, to the degree possible, that if I do want to stay then I will have a realistic path to doing so.


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

On another note, one of the immigration lawyers told me that the Spanish gov is due to publish new procedures for Brits planning to apply for Spanish residence, which is expected next week.

I can't really imagine that there will be special agreements, outside of standard non-EU applicants but I'll keep an eye out for this.

I've also read that there are suspected freelance tax reforms which will be proposed by Spanish authorities soon.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Odoyle said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I've already read through the visa requirements on the consulate website and have trawled through every Balcells Group article. I've unsuccessfully tried to reach out to BG but I'll try again.
> 
> ...


I am afraid it's a cliche about slower pace of life propagated by post war writers. Spain is extremely stressful in terms of working life. The days are long and conditions are way behind the UK and northern European and the idea of everything is mañana is meaningless. However myths persists so ,for example the Spanish still think Brits drink Tea at 4.00pm and set their watches by Big Ben. The truth is that Madrid is exactly the same as London or Paris. Many companies now work northern european hours and schools are changing to straight through days. Politically Spain is a mess. They are constantly requiring elections as the needs and values of so many different voices prevents any periods of real stability. They also have a growing level of support for a far right party which is very worrying. Of course for many the weather is the real puller and that's fair enough however ask anyone even in the South today how they feel and they will say cold and miserable!!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

kaipa said:


> I am afraid it's a cliche about slower pace of life propagated by post war writers. Spain is extremely stressful in terms of working life. The days are long and conditions are way behind the UK and northern European and the idea of everything is mañana is meaningless. However myths persists so ,for example the Spanish still think Brits drink Tea at 4.00pm and set their watches by Big Ben. The truth is that Madrid is exactly the same as London or Paris. Many companies now work northern european hours and schools are changing to straight through days. Politically Spain is a mess. They are constantly requiring elections as the needs and values of so many different voices prevents any periods of real stability. They also have a growing level of support for a far right party which is very worrying. Of course for many the weather is the real puller and that's fair enough however ask anyone even in the South today how they feel and they will say cold and miserable!!


¡Viva España! 😂


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

kaipa said:


> I am afraid it's a cliche about slower pace of life propagated by post war writers. Spain is extremely stressful in terms of working life. The days are long and conditions are way behind the UK and northern European and the idea of everything is mañana is meaningless. However myths persists so ,for example the Spanish still think Brits drink Tea at 4.00pm and set their watches by Big Ben. The truth is that Madrid is exactly the same as London or Paris. Many companies now work northern european hours and schools are changing to straight through days. Politically Spain is a mess. They are constantly requiring elections as the needs and values of so many different voices prevents any periods of real stability. They also have a growing level of support for a far right party which is very worrying. Of course for many the weather is the real puller and that's fair enough however ask anyone even in the South today how they feel and they will say cold and miserable!!


Haha that's fair.

I know that working hours are long and that pay is poor. Ideally I'd be looking to work remotely in my current role, which would ensure a good work/life balance.

I'm also in a fortunate position regarding savings so if I set up as an autonomo, I wouldn't need to slave away to make ends meet.

Noted about the political instability and your other points - it's good to hear your experiences as an expat.

I'm not sure that I have a romanticised view of Spain. I've always wanted to experience another culture and learn another language, but have procrastinated over a move.

Now that brexit has happened I feel driven to leave and I think that Spain offers as good a fit as any of the other locations I've considered.

Ultimately, I'd like to give it a go and see. I can always come home with my tail between my legs


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Odoyle said:


> Haha that's fair.
> 
> I know that working hours are long and that pay is poor. Ideally I'd be looking to work remotely in my current role, which would ensure a good work/life balance.
> 
> ...


Having a guarantee of work/income is of course going to be a big advantage for you over many who make the move. Do keep in mind things like sick pay and indeed unemployment benefits work differently. In Spain, for example, unlike the UK, there is no unemployment benefit for all. You have to work and contribute for a fairly long period to get the full benefit. Just things like that need to be kept in mind because if your work dries up in the earlly days then you are on your own.

That being said, having an income means you are in a fortunate position to be able to submerge yourself. My main top tip is always to try not to fall into the trap of making the expat community your life. Of course, it has it´s place but try to find ways to integrate with the locals, become part of the community and make Spanish friends. That is the singlemost important thing to really experience the spanish lifestyle and culture as well of course as learning the language.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> I am afraid it's a cliche about slower pace of life propagated by post war writers. Spain is extremely stressful in terms of working life. The days are long and conditions are way behind the UK and northern European and the idea of everything is mañana is meaningless. However myths persists so ,for example the Spanish still think Brits drink Tea at 4.00pm and set their watches by Big Ben. The truth is that Madrid is exactly the same as London or Paris. Many companies now work northern european hours and schools are changing to straight through days. Politically Spain is a mess. They are constantly requiring elections as the needs and values of so many different voices prevents any periods of real stability. They also have a growing level of support for a far right party which is very worrying. Of course for many the weather is the real puller and that's fair enough however ask anyone even in the South today how they feel and they will say cold and miserable!!


I largely agree with your view Kaipa, and think that your post adds a lot of value, but I will pull you up on one thing:
Madrid is not anything like London in terms of city culture. I cannot comment on Paris as I don't know it very well.
Yes, Madrid is generally more stressful, cosmopolitan, dangerous, culturally diverse, polluted, vibrant, *add here whatever other adjective suits you when describing characteristics of a large city, but the difference between Madrid and a smaller provicial town in another part of Spain is far less that the equivalent difference in the UK when considering London. Spain´s lack of internationally paced development until well after Franco's death has had an unexpected side effect in that Madrid has retained its cultural identity and been restricted in economic growth by foreign investment far more than many other developped counties' capital cities, and that still shows today.


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

xicoalc said:


> Having a guarantee of work/income is of course going to be a big advantage for you over many who make the move. Do keep in mind things like sick pay and indeed unemployment benefits work differently. In Spain, for example, unlike the UK, there is no unemployment benefit for all. You have to work and contribute for a fairly long period to get the full benefit. Just things like that need to be kept in mind because if your work dries up in the earlly days then you are on your own.
> 
> That being said, having an income means you are in a fortunate position to be able to submerge yourself. My main top tip is always to try not to fall into the trap of making the expat community your life. Of course, it has it´s place but try to find ways to integrate with the locals, become part of the community and make Spanish friends. That is the singlemost important thing to really experience the spanish lifestyle and culture as well of course as learning the language.


Thanks. I guess that I would have to come to an arrangement with my employer over how sick pay, holiday etc would work on a freelance contract. But I'm willing to take some risks in order to make this work.

And definitely, a group of expats would be welcome, especially at the start, but I'd be looking to immerse myself with the Spanish, the language etc.


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

Overandout said:


> I largely agree with your view Kaipa, and think that your post adds a lot of value, but I will pull you up on one thing:
> Madrid is not anything like London in terms of city culture. I cannot comment on Paris as I don't know it very well.
> Yes, Madrid is generally more stressful, cosmopolitan, dangerous, culturally diverse, polluted, vibrant, *add here whatever other adjective suits you when describing characteristics of a large city, but the difference between Madrid and a smaller provicial town in another part of Spain is far less that the equivalent difference in the UK when considering London. Spain´s lack of internationally paced development until well after Franco's death has had an unexpected side effect in that Madrid has retained its cultural identity and been restricted in economic growth by foreign investment far more than many other developped counties' capital cities, and that still shows today.


How do you feel Barcelona compares?

I'm keen on a smaller city than London - something that feels manageable and less overwhelming


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Odoyle said:


> How do you feel Barcelona compares?
> 
> I'm keen on a smaller city than London - something that feels manageable and less overwhelming


It's certainly smaller than London. But if you feel London a city you speak the language and know the culture is overwhelming I doubt you'll find Barcelona less so. 

It's not like a capital city of two million in a region that hopes to leave Spain is a tiny hamlet.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Odoyle said:


> Theoretically, if I'm paying in to the Spanish tax system and can prove that I will have the means to support myself, even if/when work is slow, I'm not sure why the authorities would have a problem.


With respect a quaint but rather nieve and self serving point of view of how immigration ought to work, no need for pesky visas just a passport and a bank statement!


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

MataMata said:


> With respect a quaint but rather nieve and self serving point of view of how immigration ought to work, no need for pesky visas just a passport and a bank statement!


I'm trying to assess the motivation behind specific visa requirements, not question their existence.

The non-lucrative visa offers residence on the basis of sufficient savings/income that will allow the resident to support themselves.

Therefore, I'm trying to gauge whether, in respect to the freelance visa, the authorities concern over the applicant's business plan / whether they have signed contracts etc, is primarily to do with the applicant's ability to support themselves, or whether this is more a case of probable taxation / job creation etc.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Odoyle said:


> I'm trying to assess the motivation behind specific visa requirements, not question their existence.
> 
> The non-lucrative visa offers residence on the basis of sufficient savings/income that will allow the resident to support themselves.
> 
> Therefore, I'm trying to gauge whether, in respect to the freelance visa, the authorities concern over the applicant's business plan / whether they have signed contracts etc, is primarily to do with the applicant's ability to support themselves, or whether this is more a case of probable taxation / job creation etc.


The freelance visa is all about a viable business plan, start up funds & an element of job creation.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am by no means sure but I imagine that you won t be granted working visa on the basis that you will in reality basically be working as an employee for a UK company all be it saying you are automino. This might have been possible pre -Brexit but now you would be required to actually demonstrate that you were setting up a fairly sound income generating business that not only supports at a higher level than EU nationals need to show but I imagine makes it advantageous for Spain ( it generates a reasonable level of Tax). If they were to grant you one on the basis you suggest I can't see what difference there would be from before and now. I think that the goal posts have moved and it is not a case of having enough money and income to not be a burden on the state. It will now be about demonstrating you have a income generating business that supports not only you but is likely to help others too.


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## Odoyle (Dec 17, 2020)

kaipa said:


> I am by no means sure but I imagine that you won t be granted working visa on the basis that you will in reality basically be working as an employee for a UK company all be it saying you are automino. This might have been possible pre -Brexit but now you would be required to actually demonstrate that you were setting up a fairly sound income generating business that not only supports at a higher level than EU nationals need to show but I imagine makes it advantageous for Spain ( it generates a reasonable level of Tax). If they were to grant you one on the basis you suggest I can't see what difference there would be from before and now. I think that the goal posts have moved and it is not a case of having enough money and income to not be a burden on the state. It will now be about demonstrating you have a income generating business that supports not only you but is likely to help others too.


Thank you for your input Kaipa.

I'm working on securing freelance/commission based contracts with other companies, in advance of an application.

I've read anecdotal evidence of applicants being successful with little savings and little in the way of guaranteed work, but I'm aware that success is to some degree going to be down to the way a specific consulate interprets the rules. 

I'll work on creating a convincing business plan and securing as many prospective clients as possible


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## redoko (Jul 26, 2021)

Odoyle said:


> Thank you for your input Kaipa.
> 
> I'm working on securing freelance/commission based contracts with other companies, in advance of an application.
> 
> ...


Hello! I'm also from the UK, and also just beginning my journey to try to obtain an autonomo visa so that my family and I can stay in Spain for longer than the three month schengen limits.

I have to say, I disagree with some of the other comments here. My Aunty and Uncle moved to Spain ten years ago, looking for sun, sea and a more relaxed way of life. They're blissfully happy out there, and have made lots of friends, both Spanish and a few other expats. They find the locals friendlier than over here, the living is undoubtedly cheaper and having sold a modest semi-detached house in the midlands they were able to buy a three bed villa with a small pool. Obviously all countries have their challenges, but after this past year of lockdowns and political unrest in the UK I think you should follow your dream and give it a whirl!

I've just realised you might have already completed your visa journey. I hope it went well!

I've read lots of accounts of people successfully apply for the autonomo visa with not a great amount of savings and a modest projected monthly income. I myself have got a decent amount of savings, but I want to work so I don't want the non-lucrative option. My business plan is simple but it does involve working with Spanish companies and hiring one Spanish employee after a certain period of time.

Anyway, let me know how you get on, I'll do the same. And keep chasing that dream! 

Tom


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## Em01 (Sep 19, 2021)

redoko said:


> Hello! I'm also from the UK, and also just beginning my journey to try to obtain an autonomo visa so that my family and I can stay in Spain for longer than the three month schengen limits.
> 
> I have to say, I disagree with some of the other comments here. My Aunty and Uncle moved to Spain ten years ago, looking for sun, sea and a more relaxed way of life. They're blissfully happy out there, and have made lots of friends, both Spanish and a few other expats. They find the locals friendlier than over here, the living is undoubtedly cheaper and having sold a modest semi-detached house in the midlands they were able to buy a three bed villa with a small pool. Obviously all countries have their challenges, but after this past year of lockdowns and political unrest in the UK I think you should follow your dream and give it a whirl!
> 
> ...


Hi
Scrolling through pages of Visa info have you started the process yet ? 😀


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## Do28 (Dec 21, 2010)

I can add my 2 cents..... I love Spain and the people and the culture. The culture for me is the amazing history, the diverse topography, wine the sherry where I live in Jerez, even the happy clapping flamenco. I have been in Spain on and off as a non resident but with a base here since 2008. My Spanish is mediocre even after all this time as I am just not a capable linguist but I get by OK. I only know a few brits in Spain with the bulk of my friends being Spanish and International migrants. I get by with tolerance and the aid of google translate. This year I squeezed in on the end of the article 50 registration and have residency granted. I don't work in Spain but in the next year will become tax domiciled here on my current plan. I love the fact that I can be on the beach in 20minutes and live in the centre of an ancient cobbled city. The weather is a big draw for me and I am lucky that my job has me away in sunnier climes during the winter which means I don't see much rain!!

Life in Spain is what you make of it. You can choose to learn the language and fully integrate as a local, you can hang around with the plethora of ex pats and just live for the sun and the moment it's entirely up to you, don't be guilted by people with opposing views into thinking you should go native. There are people around me who have been here decades and speak no Spanish and just hang around with other Brits and love it.

Live for the moment, what's the worse that can happen, you hate it and go home......


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