# Brits vs. no Brits.



## Guest (Sep 5, 2010)

I have a feeling I may be opening up a can of worms, but I find it fascinating all the "there's no expats!" in the pros vs. cons thread fascinating. Especially since we're here on an internet meeting point for "expats." Also, I'm supposed to be working but no me da la gana!!!!! It's domingo!!! :decision:

Up here, I pretty much talk to anyone I hear speaking North American english. Every now and then it's neat to have someone you can relate to! I know it's silly, but one does get homesick, especially when Thanksgiving and Easter roll around. It's also nice to chat with someone who doesn't jump on you for being from the great evil... had a fun, very-Spanish (read: loud) with my OH's uncle yesterday at the restaurant about the US. I shut up and focused on drinking the delicious Spanish wine. Sure buddy, you can be right as long as you re-fill my glass with that Rioja.

The vast majority of North Americans up here are only here for a year. It's hard to make and maintain friendships, especially knowing that folks are going to return after a year of studies. I know it's a bit superficial, making friends based on a common background, but it's comforting. Oh well, it's the sacrifice we make to be here, and to have Spanish family and friends who help us through


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> I have a feeling I may be opening up a can of worms, but I find it fascinating all the "there's no expats!" in the pros vs. cons thread fascinating. Especially since we're here on an internet meeting point for "expats." Also, I'm supposed to be working but no me da la gana!!!!! It's domingo!!! :decision:
> 
> Up here, I pretty much talk to anyone I hear speaking North American english. Every now and then it's neat to have someone you can relate to! I know it's silly, but one does get homesick, especially when Thanksgiving and Easter roll around. It's also nice to chat with someone who doesn't jump on you for being from the great evil... had a fun, very-Spanish (read: loud) with my OH's uncle yesterday at the restaurant about the US. I shut up and focused on drinking the delicious Spanish wine. Sure buddy, you can be right as long as you re-fill my glass with that Rioja.
> 
> The vast majority of North Americans up here are only here for a year. It's hard to make and maintain friendships, especially knowing that folks are going to return after a year of studies. I know it's a bit superficial, making friends based on a common background, but it's comforting. Oh well, it's the sacrifice we make to be here, and to have Spanish family and friends who help us through


I don't mind there being expats where I live

I wouldn't be happy if I lived solely with them though - I can't see the point of moving to a different country to live in 'Little Britain'!

I think I would be happy if I lived in a completely Spanish area though, with us the only foreigners, as would the kids - although my OH would definitely not

at one point Javea was getting bit too 'Brit' for us I have to admit - & we were considering moving areas for that reason - the recession has balanced things out again though & the Spanish do seem to be in the majority again


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It depends on the type of British immigrant. I've seen some -mainly in Malaga IKEA and at the airport- that were like the type I was glad to see the back of when I left the UK.
But others I've met -like Jo- are really decent people, the kind you'd get on with in the UK. Most people who post here are like that, I guess....you only have to think about Shiny Andy and his partner who put themselves out to help ADANA.
The Brits I've met there are really great people too.
My OH has been away for a week so I've not heard English spoken apart from on Friday when I had lunch with a group of friends of various nationalities and there were a few Brits. Unless of course you count my conversations with Our Little Azor.
I have resisted the temptation to watch British tv .......

Just remembered....I watched England beat Bulgaria on Sky on Friday but didn't watch any matches over the weekend.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Unless of course you count my conversations with Our Little Azor.


hahahaha, I'm so deprived of English that I speak to our dog in English as well. His name is Beltz ("black" in Basque) but his English is better than his Spanish or Basque. Or, at least, he obeys me best


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

halydia said:


> hahahaha, I'm so deprived of English that I speak to our dog in English as well. His name is Beltz ("black" in Basque) but his English is better than his Spanish or Basque. Or, at least, he obeys me best


Our dog was born in Slovakia so heard Slovak for the first eight weeks of his life. Then when we got him and took him to Prague he heard a lot of Czech although of course we spoke English to him.
Now he hears Spanish all around him.
Poor boy, it's a miracle he's not disturbed
For some reason he goes mad when I say something to him in Czech....


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> For some reason he goes mad when I say something to him in Czech....


Memories of greener fields to frolick in and hotter _perras_?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

halydia said:


> Memories of greener fields to frolick in and hotter _perras_?


Greener fields....yes, as he was able to run off the lead more than he can here. Although we lived a ten minute drive from Central Prague we were really out in the boonies.
Hotter perras.......the largest dogs we ever saw being walked were Labs.  Everything larger was chained up, in our neck of the woods anyway.
People were really silly too....most people picked up their dogs and turned on their heels when they saw him. It wasn't until we moved to Spain that he became really socialised and learnt to play with other dogs. People here are much more sensible. Sometimes I get asked 'Is he OK' which is a sensible question considering his size and if we're in the campo we both unleash and they play.
You should see him with little dogs....he has a friend who lives in a finca we pass, a tiny Podenco..he runs under Our Little Azor, climbs on his back, they chase each other. It's great to watch.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Here in Fuengirola and Mijas Costa there are a huge number of Brits. However, they mostly live in the urbanizations outside of the town. And as someone said, it really depends on the type of person you are talking about. I didnt consciously choose this place as the perfect place to live in Spain, it just happened that I had a close relative here and was in a relationship with someone here too. Otherwise I may well have gone elsewhere.

The first thing I noticed when I moved here is that there is a kind of voluntary segregation that exists in this town. Those that prefer to live here without learning the language or involving themselves much in the Spanish community tend to hang out in the Brit bars and cafes that abound here and probably live as they did in the UK but with nicer surroundings.
Others with more interest in Spanish culture, immerse themselves in the Spanish community, and try to avoid such Brits. So you can basically choose which world you want to live in here.

I suppose I mix with everyone to a certain extent, although my British friends all try to involve themselves in the Spanish community here but I would say I usually feel more comfortable with the Spanish lifestyle than the Brit "expat" one. When I first came here I was living in a Spanish speaking household as I have some South American in laws. Living with them was like an intensive Spanish course so was good for me. At the same time I was working in a British owned company in a Brit enclave in Mijas Costa (Calahonda) but though I kind of liked being able to speak my native language at times, it was frustrating working all day in English and with only native English speakers while living in Spain (although I had to deal with all Spanish calls and customers from day one, not that there were many!).

Since then I have worked for various Spanish companies, have a child in the local state school which surprisingly doesnt have many British/non Spanish children, (and my son considers himself Spanish anyway, and doesnt speak much English which worries me more). I am involved with various Spanish groups and organisations and mix with a variety of nationalities socially. And I like that mixture, I dont like mixing with any nationality exclusively. I lived in north west London for 20 years and I liked the multi cultural aspect of life there so I find it more interesting with a different mixture of nationalities around me. 

As well as one or two Brits, I have Swedish, Bulgarian, South American, Indian, Japanese and Spanish friends/acquaintances here. Not that I think I would mind living in an area with no other Brits or other nationalities, but I might find it a bit stifling. But once again, it totally depends on the people, not the nationality. I have been at dinner parties with people of other nationalities who are vehemently anti British and at the same time criticise Spanish people for being racist! 

Plus, since I have no one to speak to in English at home, or rather no one who answers me in English (!!) I do enjoy catching up with English friends at times, not just for the sake of the language but the shared sense of humour, cultural references etc. And I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Otherwise what exactly are we all doing on this forum?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

There are a lot of Brits that I wouldnt want to associate with, but I'm sure there are Spanish that I wouldnt. I think all in all, I dont mix with any group in an in depth, "integrated" way, but I have friends, most of them British and a some Spanish who speak English. Ultimately, until I'm fluent in Spanish I cant see how I can have close Spanish friends. But I'm not and never have been someone who "integrates" in a group of people very deeply, its nothing to do with living in Spain or anywhere else. I'm sociable and friendly, but I'm not into getting too involved!

That said, we live inbetween two towns Alhaurin de la Torre and Alhaurin El Grande, the latter is overrun with British and it has aspects that I left Britain to avoid!! So I tend to go to De La Torre, where there are more Spanish and for me I prefer it!! My new job is in El Grande tho, so I get my fix of Brits - and love a bit of banter and a chat with other Brits!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm spending this morning with a Spanish man and a woman whose father is Spanish, mother Swedish,a Lithuanian woman. and a woman from the Republic of Ireland....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm spending this morning with a Spanish man and a woman whose father is Spanish, mother Swedish,a Lithuanian woman. and a woman from the Republic of Ireland....



I love lots of nationalities getting together. Theres a bar I occasionally go to thats Lebonese, run by a lebonese chap who is married to a swedish lady (neither speak Spanish, just a bit of English), he has a dutch barmaid and his children are fluent spanish. The customers are British, german, dutch and spanish. The main language used there is English and Spanish!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> I do enjoy catching up with English friends at times, not just for the sake of the language but the shared sense of humour, cultural references etc. And I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Otherwise what exactly are we all doing on this forum?


That's what _I'm_ doing on the forum!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's what _I'm_ doing on the forum!


Yes Pesky, that was my point.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Yes Pesky, that was my point.


Yes, I know! I was agreeing with you!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's what _I'm_ doing on the forum!


Me too! 

As I said yesterday on another thread, I have got to the stage after two and a half years where I have enough Spanish friends to enjoy a good social life and feel like part of the community, but it's nice to spend time with native English speakers occasionally, to share the humour and cultural references. There are a dozen or so "Brits" in our village (I hate that word but there doesn't seem to be an alternative!) and everyone helps each other out a lot, much more so than when I lived in the UK where people got suspicious if you offered to help them.

So, in summary - it's nice to have the choice! But I could never be happy in a "ghetto" of ex-pats where the only Spanish people you meet are on supermarket checkouts or waiting on tables.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I love lots of nationalities getting together. Theres a bar I occasionally go to thats Lebonese, run by a lebonese chap who is married to a swedish lady (neither speak Spanish, just a bit of English), he has a dutch barmaid and his children are fluent spanish. The customers are British, german, dutch and spanish. The main language used there is English and Spanish!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Last March, on International Women's Day, some local women organised an international night in our village (total population 5,000). It was amazing; we had English, Dutch, Belgian, Polish, Chinese, Columbian, Cuban, German, Venezuelan and Peruvian women! We all introduced themselves in a little speech to the hundred or so Spanish women who came along to meet us - a bit daunting but they were really friendly! Now everybody says hello in the street because they all know our names and where we come from.


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## Daveh (Sep 3, 2010)

I wouldn't live to be living around a lot of Brits, that's kind of why i'm moving to Spain in the first place. However, that said, i wouldn't mind meeting a select few people - perhaps on this forum, or other Brits i've met who've moved to Spain (or plan to). To live in a very 'Brit' area would put me off.

Davey xx


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I live in one of the barrio's of Barcelona with the highest expat rate ; 49% expats  But most of them tend to be Italians, Portuguese, Latin Americans (especially lot of Mexicans and Brazilians), Moroccans, Algerians, ... Not so many Americans and Brits.

I do like the cosmopolitan feeling ; the streets are packed with women in headscarves and men in traditional Muslim robe some days. But I wouldn't want it any other way. I'd not find it comforting living in a non-multicultural city. I hope people don't think I'm staring at them for the wrong reasons, because I mainly look out of fascination and happiness to see some non-western people in the area. I'd miss them if they wouldn't be there.

As for the western (read: UK, Benelux, German, ...) expats: my friends (the few I have) are all Spanish apart for 2 or 3 colleagues maybe. But I don't mind the expats being there. There's mainly the issue that I like to see non-westerners in the city, I find it fascinating to learn about their culture and live next door to them. The expats from western Europe I'm not too interested in but also they don't bother me. It sounds a bit odd when hearing Dutch or German in the streets but it's not like it bothers me.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gerrit said:


> I live in one of the barrio's of Barcelona with the highest expat rate ; 49% expats  But most of them tend to be Italians, Portuguese, Latin Americans (especially lot of Mexicans and Brazilians), Moroccans, Algerians, ... Not so many Americans and Brits.
> 
> I do like the cosmopolitan feeling ; the streets are packed with women in headscarves and men in traditional Muslim robe some days. But I wouldn't want it any other way. I'd not find it comforting living in a non-multicultural city. I hope people don't think I'm staring at them for the wrong reasons, because I mainly look out of fascination and happiness to see some non-western people in the area. I'd miss them if they wouldn't be there.
> 
> As for the western (read: UK, Benelux, German, ...) expats: my friends (the few I have) are all Spanish apart for 2 or 3 colleagues maybe. But I don't mind the expats being there. There's mainly the issue that I like to see non-westerners in the city, I find it fascinating to learn about their culture and live next door to them. The expats from western Europe I'm not too interested in but also they don't bother me. It sounds a bit odd when hearing Dutch or German in the streets but it's not like it bothers me.


We've got four Belgians in our village - two Dutch-speaking and two French-speaking - but they all speak excellent English, German and Spanish too. Sometimes I get very frustrated with the British reluctance to learn foreign languages. I think they believe the whole world should learn English!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Daveh said:


> I wouldn't live to be living around a lot of Brits, that's kind of why i'm moving to Spain in the first place. However, that said, i wouldn't mind meeting a select few people - perhaps on this forum, or other Brits i've met who've moved to Spain (or plan to). To live in a very 'Brit' area would put me off.
> 
> Davey xx


Well don't be _too_ selective - some people turn out to be real treasures underneath, even though you would never know on first impression!

I have become good friends here with people I would never have dreamed of socialising with in the UK.

Just the fact that you have chosen to live in Spain means you have something in common already!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, Belgians are notorious for how easily we learn new languages. This is due to the fact that Belgium is at the crosspoint of Romanic and Germanic languages, the fact that we have 3 official languages (of which 2 are compulsory in the schools) and the fact that we're such a small country that we are in Germany or France in no time. We're more or less forced to learn other languages, although it does come in handy. The oddity is that a lot of Dutch speakers don't manage to write their own native language without lot of grammar errors, but meanwhile do speak English or French quite well!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gerrit said:


> Well, Belgians are notorious for how easily we learn new languages. This is due to the fact that Belgium is at the crosspoint of Romanic and Germanic languages, the fact that we have 3 official languages (of which 2 are compulsory in the schools) and the fact that we're such a small country that we are in Germany or France in no time. We're more or less forced to learn other languages, although it does come in handy. The oddity is that a lot of Dutch speakers don't manage to write their own native language without lot of grammar errors, but meanwhile do speak English or French quite well!


I am so jealous! When I learned Spanish I immediately forgot all my French - as if there is only room in my brain for one other language!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, you have to really go out and travel or move abroad before you really master a language. I studied German for over 3 years in Belgium but still didn't manage to read a German newspaper properly or get beyond the basics. I learnt more German in the 1 year I lived in Germany than I could have ever done in schools. Schools are good to learn the basics, but to really grasp expressions, everyday language used in the streets, etc you need to be amongst the people. Obviously Belgium has that advantage that despite its small size we have several languages within the same territory, you drive for 1 hour to Brussels and you already need to speak French to make yourself understood, 1 hour further the German-speaking area begins.  That said, the linguistic battles are politically tearing Belgium apart now


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Well don't be _too_ selective - some people turn out to be real treasures underneath, even though you would never know on first impression!
> 
> I have become good friends here with people I would never have dreamed of socialising with in the UK.
> 
> Just the fact that you have chosen to live in Spain means you have something in common already!


Hmm....people come to Spain for so many different reasons. Sometimes it's hard to find a common factor other than the common thread of it being Spain and not, say, Serbia!
Some are fulfilling a 'dream', some come for health reasons, some are fleeing the law, HMRC or other debts, some because they can't make a living in the UK and imagine they can do so easily here....
But the first part of your post is spot-on and true world-wide.
I like the fact you celebrated IWD in your town. It's been abandoned 100% in the former Socialist states -they celebrate Mother's Day instead - but when you consider how women are treated in many parts of the world, especially hard-line Islamic states, it's important to have a reminder of how women are oppressed...and that's a word I don't use often as its inaccurate use trivialises real oppression - but it certainly applies to far too many women...all too often forgotten or simply not known about.
I'd like to persuade our village to recognise this important date.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gerrit said:


> Well, you have to really go out and travel or move abroad before you really master a language. I studied German for over 3 years in Belgium but still didn't manage to read a German newspaper properly or get beyond the basics. I learnt more German in the 1 year I lived in Germany than I could have ever done in schools. Schools are good to learn the basics, but to really grasp expressions, everyday language used in the streets, etc you need to be amongst the people. Obviously Belgium has that advantage that despite its small size we have several languages within the same territory, you drive for 1 hour to Brussels and you already need to speak French to make yourself understood, 1 hour further the German-speaking area begins.  That said, the linguistic battles are politically tearing Belgium apart now



Belgium is imo a neglected gem in Europe. I went to Bruges a couple of years ago...what a fabulous city. As beautiful in its own way as Prague or Paris.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Where I am there's no Brits. but I can find plenty around 8 km away but I can honestly say that I don't need all the fingers on one hand to count the ones that I don't mind bumping in too. The majority appear to want to live in 'little britain with sun' .The vast majority speak no spanish & need the help of someone who speaks spanish to accomplish everyday tasks. If you are unfortunate to bump into one of them in a shop somewhere you end up as the reluctant interpreter, usually with no thanks they just expect it of you. Occasionally I've come across them , ranting & raving in english because the person doesn't understand them , in suppliers where I am known & I have to step in & tell them the truth. I don't want the suppliers thinking I'm related to the mentally deficient half-wits. 
Why do these people think they can go out to buy things , without even finding out what they are called in spanish ? Why can't they buy a dictionary ? why do I always bump into them ? They all want to frequent the only british bar that there is & then moan about the heat, how long it takes to do anything, the fact that no one speaks english, etc; etc;etc. Quite a few of them I have done work for , & quite a few I refused to do any work for & , in all honesty, the vast majority should never be let out of the UK !. So to actually want to socialise with them ..................
All the belgians, germans & dutch i've met , mainly through working for them , have been the complete opposite, polite, know what they want, listen to advice , accept that some things can't legally be done & are willing to alter there plans. In fact the complete opposite of most of the Brits. I come across. Perhaps we've ended up with all the muppets here ?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> All the belgians, germans & dutch i've met , mainly through working for them , have been the complete opposite, polite, know what they want, listen to advice , accept that some things can't legally be done & are willing to alter there plans. In fact the complete opposite of most of the Brits. I come across. Perhaps we've ended up with all the muppets here ?


I was talking to some non-Brits today who asked me why so many Brits were so 'obtrusive' - a rather polite word, I felt
We do seem to have a reputation for being 'difficult'.
Perhaps we have them here, as you suggest. I thought that about Prague too. Far too many Brit emigres there were beer-guzzling twerps, not to mince words, mainly in Macjobs and with pulling power as some Czech women thought they'd get a free pass back to the UK. It wasn't uncommon to see the ugliest old or young men with gorgeous women.
Add to them the stag and hen parties..
Yet the Brits I met on my frequent stays in Canada were different altogether.
Strange.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Belgium is imo a neglected gem in Europe. I went to Bruges a couple of years ago...what a fabulous city. As beautiful in its own way as Prague or Paris.


Tiny town which has a heated rivalry with my native city Ghent  Ghent is a lot like Bruges, lot of canals, a city center full of medieval buildings, ... The difference is mainly that Ghent is twice as big and has a very vibrant artistic scene and nightlife due to its big university. Depends what you like: if you like it cosy then visit Bruges, if you want to feel a mix between medieval housing and modern day vibe then Ghent is what you need. Or better: visit both! They are less than half an hour apart by train. In Belgium we don't have anything such as large distances. Our main cities Bruges, Ghent, Antwerp, Leuven, Brussels and Liege are all within 2 hours drive from each other, distances between Ghent and Bruges, Ghent and Brussels, Brussels and Leuven are even less than 1 hour.

Pity our country is torn apart politically right now. Also I don't like the conservative part of society. Belgium looks nice if you avoid talking to its people (but then they say the same about lot of countries...)


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## Daveh (Sep 3, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I was talking to some non-Brits today who asked me why so many Brits were so 'obtrusive' - a rather polite word, I felt
> We do seem to have a reputation for being 'difficult'.
> Perhaps we have them here, as you suggest. I thought that about Prague too. *Far too many Brit emigres there were beer-guzzling twerps, not to mince words, mainly in Macjobs and with pulling power as some Czech women thought they'd get a free pass back to the UK.* It wasn't uncommon to see the ugliest old or young men with gorgeous women.
> Add to them the stag and hen parties..
> ...


:rofl:


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