# Working remotely in Italy



## ricmos

Can a US citizen who always works remotely, continue to work remotely in Italy for their US company while while visiting Italy for less than 90 days? Is a visa necessary or would there be any Italian tax obligations?

Does the answer to this question change if you will not be working the entire period while visiting? For example: visiting for 3 month, but working less than the entire visit.


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## accbgb

ricmos said:


> Can a US citizen who always works remotely, continue to work remotely in Italy for their US company while while visiting Italy for less than 90 days? Is a visa necessary or would there be any Italian tax obligations?
> 
> Does the answer to this question change if you will not be working the entire period while visiting? For example: visiting for 3 month, but working less than the entire visit.


Technically, no. You cannot work while in Italy unless you have an appropriate work visa or residency status. And "work" is based on where YOU are located, not where the work product is located.

Having said that, I suppose the chances of getting caught breaking this particular rule are remote (apologies for the pun).

PS: the odds of being able to get an appropriate work visa are more than likely slim to none, so I would suggest not even trying that route as it only calls attention to your situation.


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## BBCWatcher

Legally, technically speaking it's "probably" a violation of Italian immigration law to work in Italy without permission beyond the fairly narrow range of activities that short term visitors are allowed. Work is where you perform it, not how long the wire or wireless connection is between you and whatever you're manipulating or talking to. In principle somebody already in Italy could perform the same work if you can do it from Italy, and such laws in part help protect local labor markets and workers.

Obviously such technical violations are pretty common. But it's good that you're asking.

What many employees do is they simply ask their employer for advice -- then consider it. A lot of employers have visa/immigration consulting firms on retainer, and such firms can often help you understand the boundaries for a particular country. The employee can still be held personally liable for any violations, so you don't necessarily have to accept the advice given.

Yes, it can matter what percentage of time you spend working. Generally if the work-related activities are incidental, occasional, and otherwise substantially secondary to permitted activities (such as visiting a museum, attending a business meeting with a client, taking an employer's training class, etc. -- activities that short term visitors generally can do) then you cross back into acceptability. But it depends on the country, and they vary a bit.

U.S. authorities recently dinged some major IT companies and their employees for abusing B-1/B-2 visas (short term stay visas), performing work activities well beyond the scope of those visas. The issue can pop up from time to time.


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## Bevdeforges

Practically speaking, you can probably get away with it as long as you aren't in Italy to work (i.e. as your primary activity). Plenty of folks just visiting keep up with what's going on back in the office while they're in the country. And generally speaking, being physically present for less than 90 days normally isn't sufficient for you to fall under a country's definition of "tax residence."
Cheers,
Bev


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## ricmos

Thanks. Can you actually get a work visa for less than 90 days?


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## ricmos

I cannot find anything on the internet (been looking for 3 years) that addresses working in Italy less than 90 days for a US-based company. Everything always ties working AND more than 90 days and/or working for an Italian company.


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## ricmos

Seems like it was said on another post (working remotely from EU) that pretty much what I'm asking was OK to do. I want to be entirely legal, but it seems visiting Italy for less than 90 days and working remotely for your US company isn't really addressed in the laws/guidelines (that I can find).


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## Bevdeforges

Work laws in most countries haven't quite caught up with the remote working opportunities of the Internet. Basically, though, you can enter on a Schengen visa for up to 90 days on a "business trip" no problem - as long as you maintain your residence elsewhere. And you're right - you wouldn't be able to get a work visa for less than 90 days under normal circumstances. It would be treated like a business trip anyhow as long as you're still working for your "back home" employer.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Italy actually does seem to have a short term (up to 90 days) self-employment visa for freelancers, and that seems to be the correct match here. There's a bunch of red tape to get one, including getting the Italian Chamber of Commerce's blessing, and certainly no guarantee it'll be granted. Performing artists tend to be the most frequent consumers of this type of visa, as I understand it.


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## ricmos

Thanks for the responses! I am not a freelancer. I am a full time employee of a US company, for whom I work remotely.

It sounds like what I want to do is legal and no action would be required on my part.


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## accbgb

ricmos said:


> Thanks for the responses! I am not a freelancer. I am a full time employee of a US company, for whom I work remotely.
> 
> It sounds like what I want to do is legal and no action would be required on my part.


No, actually, what you want to do is probably illegal.

Incidental work - such as checking in with the home company while you are on vacation and perhaps fixing a problem here or there is almost certainly legal. But, if your intention is to perform a more or less full-time job while in Italy, then no, it is most likely not legal.

But, as I stated earlier, there is probably no way you would get caught unless you mention what you are doing to the wrong person.

Try the official questionnaire here: Il visto per l'Italia


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## ricmos

I would definitely not be working full time. I did try the questionnaire, but it does not cover my situation. As I say, I have been looking for documentation on this for years and had seen the questionnaire. I think more than likely, as stated by others, the laws do not address/accommodate an electronic workplace. Can you point to me the guidance on incidental work. My plan would be to not work full-time, perhaps some or maybe most of the time, but not all. Is there some ratio that is acceptable?


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## accbgb

ricmos said:


> I would definitely not be working full time. I did try the questionnaire, but it does not cover my situation. As I say, I have been looking for documentation on this for years and had seen the questionnaire. I think more than likely, as stated by others, the laws do not address/accommodate an electronic workplace. Can you point to me the guidance on incidental work. My plan would be to not work full-time, perhaps some _*or maybe most of the time*_, but not all. Is there some ratio that is acceptable?


I really think you are missing the point.

You are not supposed to "work" - period. And, where the law hasn't caught up with the electronic workplace, it is safe to assume that existing law will be applied in Italy's favor, not yours. Hence, no work means no work.


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## BBCWatcher

ricmos said:


> Thanks for the responses! I am not a freelancer.


Unless your employer has a local office or subsidiary in Italy, you probably would be from the _Italian_ perspective, which is all that matters for these purposes. That's somewhat of a guess but a reasonable one.



> It sounds like what I want to do is legal and no action would be required on my part.


No, I think we have agreement that what you propose would be technically _illegal_ if you don't have an appropriate visa.


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## ricmos

OK. Thanks everyone for weighing-in on this. I guess that pretty much settles it.


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## Bevdeforges

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what you are doing in Italy during your stay. If you are there primarily as a tourist and simply keeping up with what's going on back at the office, you'll be all right. After all, people use the Schengen visa to go to Italy (and other countries) on business trips for their employers - to meet with customers, scout out business opportunities and such.

This from the Italian Consulate (in Boston) website:


> American citizens do not need a visa to travel to Italy or other Schengen countries for up to 90 days every six months for purposes of Tourism, *Business*, Study, Sport Events, Invitation. For all other purposes, a visa is required and must be obtained from the Italian Embassy or Consulates before entering Italy


Looks to me like you're good.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

No, I disagree, Bev.

"Business" here has a uniform Schengen Area definition since it's an area-wide visa waiver with EU conforming domestic legislation in Italy. Here is a list of (generally) permitted activities:

* attend meetings and briefings;
* undertake negotiations;
* conclude contracts;
* buy goods;
* conduct internal audit.

Here's a list of non-permitted activities:

* performing productive work;
* accepting paid or unpaid unemployment;
* working under the supervision of a host employer.

As a legal, technical matter, Ricmos's proposed activities clearly fall outside the activities business visitors under Schengen visa waiver privileges (and their business visitor visa holding counterparts) are permitted. Ricmos will "perform productive work" in Italy, and that's not actually legal -- or at least I don't think there's much legal/professional disagreement on that point.

Ricmos is certainly welcome to seek out additional opinions, and (as I mentioned) I recommend consulting his employer's visa/immigration advisor, if there is one and if possible. I don't think the advisor is going to disagree with Accbgb and me, but we'll see. I found one such advisor that posted their summary presentation for reference. Here's what Ernst & Young says in a recent visa bulletin as another example. That bulletin is about Germany specifically, but the "business" definition is uniform throughout the Schengen Area. I'll quote from their bulletin the most important bit:



Ernst & Young said:


> Any kind of hands-on or “productive” work is generally not allowed. For example, any activity which is part of a business visitor’s daily tasks performed in their home country is most likely considered productive work, and therefore not allowed.


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## accbgb

Oh, one more thing...

You haven't said what your internet-based work consists of, but be forewarned: in most of Italy, even major cities, consumer internet speeds leave a lot to be desired. Don't count on having access to anything better than aDSL (around 12 Mbps down / 1 Mbps up) and you won't be disappointed.

Simple web-based work would not be much of an issue. But, anything involving large data transfers such as video editing would be nearly impossible.


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