# Entered on EEA Family Permit what is the smart next step?



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Hi all,

I entered the UK with my EEA national wife back in late October. My EEA Family Permit is valid until mid April and I have not applied for a Residence Card.

I travel abroad pretty much weekly for work, and to date have had no issues clearing UK border control with my EEA Family Permit.

After returning back to Australia for Christmas, my wife must remain there for medical reasons until March, I was given the 3rd degree when re-entering the UK when asked if my wife was here and I honestly answered 'no'. 

My dilemma is a combination of:

a) needing my passport to travel for work

b) wife's passport is not currently in the UK

I had not planned on appling for a Residence Card as I have only been posted here for a finite period of time and I am not interested in obtaining Indefinite Leave to Remain.

When I look at form EEA2 it informs me that application for an RC is optional, not mandatory.

I have looked around online and found that some people purport to have applied for an 'extension' to their EEA Family Permit (although I have not seen any UKBA form which enables this), others allude to leaving the UK and obtaining a new EEA Family permit in a 3rd country (Ireland and France mentioned most commonly for obvious reasons), and finally I have read that the 'expiry' date on the EEA Family permit is not a bona fide expiry date at all but rather a date by which initial entry accompanying or join the EEA spouse must be completed. This final option would imply that re-entry to the UK could not legally be refused provided the EEA spouse was still exercising treaty rights in the UK, even if the spousal EEA Family Permit was 'expired'.

I called the UKBA yesterday and was informed that I would need to apply for a Residence Card at any point prior to the expiration of my EEA Family Permit. The main issue I have with this is that even though in theory I can apply for the early return of my passport, I would need to travel almost immediately for work and even with a RC application in place would have neither a valid EEA Family Permit nor CoA for the RC to help my case when I attempt re-entry.

Is my best course of action to apply for a new EEA Family Permit in a 3rd country prior to the expiration of the current Permit? I have no issue with taking a short trip somewhere every 6 months to complete this process and if this is plausible it certainly seems like the fastest way to get an entry clearance endorsement and passport return.

Many thanks in advance for your feedback.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

leedavey said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I entered the UK with my EEA national wife back in late October. My EEA Family Permit is valid until mid April and I have not applied for a Residence Card.
> 
> ...


You can either apply for your residence card - average processing time around 2-4 months and 4 - 6 weeks for CoA, or get a new EEA family permit every 6 months outside UK (any country). You cannot extend your permit within UK. There was to be a same-day premium service in Liverpool for EEA2 applications, but it seems to have been shelved.

Don't take at face value a statement like you don't have to apply for your residence card or EEA family permit expiry doesn't matter. UKBA has to say it in order not to fall foul of EU law. While under EU rules you may have right to live in UK, each country is allowed to have its own procedure to verify it and it's convincing the UKBA immigration officer about it in the absence of RC, CoA or valid permit that will be the issue, as you have already experienced. So get your RC or keep renewing your EEA permit.

I know the situation isn't good and the procedure messy and time-consuming, but your options are limited. You also need to show that your wife's stay in Australia is only temporary and she is still exercising treaty rights in UK.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Hi Joppa,


Many thanks for your prompt response.


I would certainly take the option of renewing the EEA Family Permit every 6 months.


The way form VAF5 (or the online equivalent) is worded is very much for applying from country of residence. Since I am resident in the UK this will be difficult. Do you know if I will need to return to Australia to apply or if a short trip to the UK Embassy in Dublin or Paris with my EEA national wife will suffice?


Also, do you know if biometrics may be re-used for subsequent applications as they are already on file?


Many thanks again.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

leedavey said:


> Hi Joppa,
> 
> 
> Many thanks for your prompt response.
> ...


VAF5 assumes you are applying in the country of residence, but you can actually get your EEA permit at any British diplomatic post that issues visas. You just have to complete the form in the way it applies to you.



> Also, do you know if biometrics may be re-used for subsequent applications as they are already on file?


No you need to have fresh one done each time, but it's no big issue as it will be done as part of your application process, often in person.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Thanks Joppa, you have definitely made my day today!

This must be an unpopular method of remaining in the UK, as I can't find any anecdotes online about people doing this?? (like residents in Malaysia doing visa runs to Singapore periodically etc)






Joppa said:


> VAF5 assumes you are applying in the country of residence, but you can actually get your EEA permit at any British diplomatic post that issues visas. You just have to complete the form in the way it applies to you.
> 
> 
> 
> No you need to have fresh one done each time, but it's no big issue as it will be done as part of your application process, often in person.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

leedavey said:


> Thanks Joppa, you have definitely made my day today!
> 
> This must be an unpopular method of remaining in the UK, as I can't find any anecdotes online about people doing this?? (like residents in Malaysia doing visa runs to Singapore periodically etc)


Because most people just put up with the long process for EEA2 to get residence card, valid 5 years. Also those who enter with EEA family permit are usually dependent families and don't normally have work commitment overseas.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Joppa,


Very good points indeed.


One final question if I may before I leave you alone:


Can you tell me if I need to take my wife with me on these EEAFP runs I will do each 6 months? I know I shouldn't need her for the application process, but if she is not with me when I re-enter for the first time with the fresh FP then I will not necessarily be able to prove she is already in the UK.


Many thanks.





Joppa said:


> Because most people just put up with the long process for EEA2 to get residence card, valid 5 years. Also those who enter with EEA family permit are usually dependent families and don't normally have work commitment overseas.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

leedavey said:


> Can you tell me if I need to take my wife with me on these EEAFP runs I will do each 6 months? I know I shouldn't need her for the application process, but if she is not with me when I re-enter for the first time with the fresh FP then I will not necessarily be able to prove she is already in the UK.


There's no need for your wife to accompany for your EEA permit runs. It will be helpful if your wife is available at the end of a phone when you arrive in UK, or meeting you at the airport. Also take some documents to show she is living and working in UK, such as work contract, council tax or utility bill etc.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Thank you Joppa, your attention to my posts is greatly appreciated. 

Enjoy your weekend!!





Joppa said:


> There's no need for your wife to accompany for your EEA permit runs. It will be helpful if your wife is available at the end of a phone when you arrive in UK, or meeting you at the airport. Also take some documnets to show she is living and working in UK, such as work contract, council tax or utility bill etc.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Thank you Joppa, your attention to my posts is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Enjoy your weekend!!


Hi Leedavey,

Can you advise me how you got on? I'm in a very similar situation with regards to my husband who is Australian and who's EEA family permit has a validity until April. We are also not planning on settling in the UK and UKBA has told us that it will take 6mths to get him a residency card in which time we may have returned to Australia!! 

His permit was validated on 29 October, and the validity on his permit is 2 April. We are travelling to France over Easter and I'm worried there might be trouble re-entering after the validity date. Also, like yourself he also needs to travel for work and I'm concerned about him re-entering the country with no proof that he's married to an EU national.

I've looked on the British Embassy site for Ireland and looks like most get processed in 2 days!!! This seems like a good alternative.

Thanks


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi Leedavey,
> 
> Can you advise me how you got on? I'm in a very similar situation with regards to my husband who is Australian and who's EEA family permit has a validity until April. We are also not planning on settling in the UK and UKBA has told us that it will take 6mths to get him a residency card in which time we may have returned to Australia!!
> 
> ...



Hi SAMie,

I am just back from Ireland and can advise it did not go to plan. My permit is valid until mid April so I am going to head back to Ireland in a couple of weeks.

The embassy staff in Dublin advised me that from this week all applications are sent back to the UK for processing. This means that the 2 days stated on the website is now out of date. I relied on the website information when I arranged the trip which left e short on time and I could not risk missing my departure window due to work commitments. An expensive misadventure to say the least.

So my advice for you if you are heading to Dublin for this purpose is as follows:

1. Apply and Book your appointment early as they will not let you through the gate without one

2. Photocopy all supporting documentation as they will refuse to see applicants who do not have copies in hand

3. Passports and supporting documents can only be collected once ready on Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings between 9am - 9:30am

4. Leave enough time for processing of your application. I assume the new regime will require 4 business days... so a Monday appointment may result in a Friday collection. I have not tested this but will be leaving my return flexible the next time around.


Hope this helps and please let me know if I haven't covered everything.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Leedavey,

Thanks for your quick response, I really appreciate it. The information you've given me is invaluable, its so hard to find reliable info! Sorry to hear that your trip didn't go to plan.

Sorry to trouble you but I have a couple of other questions.

When we applied in Australia, my husband did his biometrics at the embassy in Sydney and then sent the EEA application off. I presume the embassy in Dublin does the whole lot in one go? And do you know if you're current EEA family permit has to expire before the new one is issued?

Again, thanks for all your advice.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi Leedavey,
> 
> Thanks for your quick response, I really appreciate it. The information you've given me is invaluable, its so hard to find reliable info! Sorry to hear that your trip didn't go to plan.
> 
> ...



Hi SAMie,

I can confirm that the biometrics are taken during the appointment at the Dubln embassy.

Unfortunately I cannot advise on the expiry question. I was working on the assumption that it would not be an issue that my current permit had not expired. Again I would hope that the new permit would effectively follow on from the current one. 

Having said all this though I am convinced, as Joppa mentioned earlier in the thread, that this path is very much the exception to the normal route for which it seems the UKBA expect all to follow (I.e. the residence card route).


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

SAMie said:


> And do you know if you're current EEA family permit has to expire before the new one is issued?


No, you can apply for a new one at any time.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Joppa said:


> No, you can apply for a new one at any time.


Thanks for the clarification Joppa.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Thanks for the clarification Joppa.


Appreciate everyone's help! Thanks for clarifying. Fingers crossed all will go well in Dublin.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Appreciate everyone's help! Thanks for clarifying. Fingers crossed all will go well in Dublin.


Hi SAMie,

Would you be so kind as to post an update once you have been through the process in Dublin please?

I am particularly interested in their turnaround times under this purported 'new system'.

Many thanks in advance.

LD


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Hi SAMie,
> 
> Would you be so kind as to post an update once you have been through the process in Dublin please?
> 
> ...


Hi Leedavey,

No problem. My husband has submitted his application and has an appointment at the embassy next week so will let you know how it goes.

Cheers
Sam


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi Leedavey,
> 
> No problem. My husband has submitted his application and has an appointment at the embassy next week so will let you know how it goes.
> 
> ...


I am booked in for next Wednesday so will see how it goes, fingers crossed.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> I am booked in for next Wednesday so will see how it goes, fingers crossed.


Well, look out for a fellow Aussie, because my husband is booked in for Wednesday too!


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> I am booked in for next Wednesday so will see how it goes, fingers crossed.


Hi LD,

Just an update for you on where we're at - my husband travelled to Dublin this morning and although his appointment was until mid morning he got there early and they saw him first thing. Great advice about the photocopying, they were very strict on that so thanks. 

The embassy advised that applications were taking 15 days but I'm hoping that's a worst cast scenario. Depending on what your travel plans are, and you may know already, but if you have a GB driver's licence this is an acceptable form of ID for travel between Ireland & UK, and which my husband has used successfully today. 

Obviously this means he can't travel anywhere else from the UK but at least he is able to return to the UK to work while his application is being processed.

Hope everything goes well for you today.
Sam


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi LD,
> 
> Just an update for you on where we're at - my husband travelled to Dublin this morning and although his appointment was until mid morning he got there early and they saw him first thing. Great advice about the photocopying, they were very strict on that so thanks.
> 
> ...



Hi Sam,


I saw him, but I thought he sounded more Kiwi than Aussie... must be from QLD?


My appointment was at 9:30am but I wasn't served until 10:30am. Not sure why they have this strict appointment policy when they run first come first serve. They gave me the standard line also i.e. 'up to 15 day turnaround'... I have business here early next week so there is no point heading back and forth. Good advice on the GB license though, I do have one of those.


I only have 8 days until I need my passport for next business trip so fingers crossed they can turn around these simple applications pretty quickly...


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Hi Sam,
> 
> 
> I saw him, but I thought he sounded more Kiwi than Aussie... must be from QLD?
> ...


QLD?? Ouch, he won't be pleased to hear that!! Sydney boy through and through!

Fingers crossed it will be ready for you next week. Good luck!


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Strictly speaking, under the terms of the Common Travel Area, passport-less travel between UK and Ireland is only for British and Irish citizens. Everyone else is supposed to carry their normal travel document, either a passport or an official identity card issued by EEA country.

In practice, there is no passport control and any ID such as driving licence will suffice or just showing your boarding pass, but the Irish immigration garda (police) can give you grief if they conduct a spot check and you can't produce a passport when you are neither British nor Irish.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Strictly speaking, under the terms of the Common Travel Area, passport-less travel between UK and Ireland is only for British and Irish citizens. Everyone else is supposed to carry their normal travel document, either a passport or an official identity card issued by EEA country.
> 
> In practice, there is no passport control and any ID such as driving licence will suffice or just showing your boarding pass, but the Irish immigration garda (police) can give you grief if they conduct a spot check and you can't produce a passport when you are neither British nor Irish.


This is correct, although there is passport control at Dublin now and there has been for a number of years. They will examine your driver's licence, and as you say should they press the issue, a valid passport would be required for non UK / Irish citizens. It is only on return to UK where there is no passport control.

Also, I believe that if you travel on Ryanair, they only accept a passport as a form of ID, where as Aer Lingus accept other forms, including the drivers licence.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

SAMie said:


> This is correct, although there is passport control at Dublin now and there has been for a number of years. They will examine your driver's licence, and as you say should they press the issue, a valid passport would be required for non UK / Irish citizens. It is only on return to UK where there is no passport control.
> 
> Also, I believe that if you travel on Ryanair, they only accept a passport as a form of ID, where as Aer Lingus accept other forms, including the drivers licence.


Yes, and the passport desk at DUB does accept your boarding pass as proof that you have come from within CTA. I have seen at Dun Laoghaire and Dublin Port Immigration Gardaí in yellow high-vis vest going among cars asking to see 'foreign' passports.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> This is correct, although there is passport control at Dublin now and there has been for a number of years. They will examine your driver's licence, and as you say should they press the issue, a valid passport would be required for non UK / Irish citizens. It is only on return to UK where there is no passport control.
> 
> Also, I believe that if you travel on Ryanair, they only accept a passport as a form of ID, where as Aer Lingus accept other forms, including the drivers licence.


Thanks both. Sam I knew the QLD thing would be contentious and was jk of course. Hope he gets back through Dublin passport control fine with the license... may be wise to drop the Kiwi accent and assume a Pommie one.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Thanks both. Sam I knew the QLD thing would be contentious and was jk of course. Hope he gets back through Dublin passport control fine with the license... may be wise to drop the Kiwi accent and assume a Pommie one.


You mexicans have a good sense of humour!! 

He used the licence this morning as a test run so fingers crossed will be okay on the return too.

Thanks Joppa, for your comments. Have also seen a significant Garda presence at the ferry ports, and it often surprises me that security there is greater than at the airport. Of course there is a customs focus at the ports also so that would probably be an influencing factor.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> You mexicans have a good sense of humour!!
> 
> He used the licence this morning as a test run so fingers crossed will be okay on the return too.
> 
> Thanks Joppa, for your comments. Have also seen a significant Garda presence at the ferry ports, and it often surprises me that security there is greater than at the airport. Of course there is a customs focus at the ports also so that would probably be an influencing factor.


Haha!! I'm actually born and raised in Perth... so more Hawaiian than Mexican I would say.

As you pointed out there is no check whatsoever arriving in the UK from Ireland, but the same cannot be said for the return trip. So I hope when he re-enters (next week??) all goes well.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Haha!! I'm actually born and raised in Perth... so more Hawaiian than Mexican I would say.
> 
> As you pointed out there is no check whatsoever arriving in the UK from Ireland, but the same cannot be said for the return trip. So I hope when he re-enters (next week??) all goes well.


Ah yes, of course, forgot there was a Melbourne here in the UK. My collegue (also from Perth) tells me that makes you a sand groper????!!

That's what I meant when I said he had a test run - he used his licence to enter Ireland & at Dublin passport control. Mind you, it always comes down to the individual immigration officer. We entered the UK at London city airport on Monday with his expired permit and they said nothing, except asked him if he lived here (in the UK). Another time it could have been a lengthy experience.

We are visiting friends at the end of the month, so will wait until then to return to Ireland. That should give us plenty of time. Fingers crossed that you receive yours inside the 8 days.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Ah yes, of course, forgot there was a Melbourne here in the UK. My collegue (also from Perth) tells me that makes you a sand groper????!!
> 
> That's what I meant when I said he had a test run - he used his licence to enter Ireland & at Dublin passport control. Mind you, it always comes down to the individual immigration officer. We entered the UK at London city airport on Monday with his expired permit and they said nothing, except asked him if he lived here (in the UK). Another time it could have been a lengthy experience.
> 
> We are visiting friends at the end of the month, so will wait until then to return to Ireland. That should give us plenty of time. Fingers crossed that you receive yours inside the 8 days.


Hi Sam,

Any update? 

My plans are shot as I have yet to receive an email which means Friday passport collection at the earliest for me...


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Hi Sam,
> 
> Any update?
> 
> My plans are shot as I have yet to receive an email which means Friday passport collection at the earliest for me...


Hi LD,

No news either I'm afraid...no email confirming anything. Maybe there's a backlog after Easter??


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi LD,
> 
> No news either I'm afraid...no email confirming anything. Maybe there's a backlog after Easter??


Yes I thought the same... now desperately hoping for Friday...


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Yes I thought the same... now desperately hoping for Friday...


Will let you know as soon as I hear anything. Friday seems reasonable....a week to process and a day either end for inter office mail??


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Will let you know as soon as I hear anything. Friday seems reasonable....a week to process and a day either end for inter office mail??


Hi Sam,


I imagine you have not heard anything today?


I was meant to fly abroad tomorrow but now of course that will not be happening.


Another weekend in Dublin...


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Hi Sam,
> 
> 
> I imagine you have not heard anything today?
> ...


How frustrating. 

Haven't heard anything either unfortunately....I'm starting to think that the "up to 15 day turnaround" might be closer to the truth than we hoped.

I can recommend a trip to the Guinness Storehouse at St James' Gate.....!!


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> How frustrating.
> 
> Haven't heard anything either unfortunately....I'm starting to think that the "up to 15 day turnaround" might be closer to the truth than we hoped.
> 
> I can recommend a trip to the Guinness Storehouse at St James' Gate.....!!



Thanks Sam,

I went to the Guinness Storehouse many years ago. Went to the Old Jameson Distillery last weekend...


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Thanks Sam,
> 
> I went to the Guinness Storehouse many years ago. Went to the Old Jameson Distillery last weekend...


Hi LD

Any news yet? I'm still waiting for my email.....


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi LD
> 
> Any news yet? I'm still waiting for my email.....


No news... still in Ireland, feel like I'm under house arrest waiting for 2 weeks...


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> No news... still in Ireland, feel like I'm under house arrest waiting for 2 weeks...


So much for this being the quick solution! At this rate, you'll know Dublin better than the locals.

It's ten working days tomorrow, so I'm pinning my hopes on hearing something tomorrow. We fly into Dublin on Friday - thought that would be plenty of time for it all to be processed. Frustrating.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> So much for this being the quick solution! At this rate, you'll know Dublin better than the locals.
> 
> It's ten working days tomorrow, so I'm pinning my hopes on hearing something tomorrow. We fly into Dublin on Friday - thought that would be plenty of time for it all to be processed. Frustrating.


I have burned through two booked return flights, flown the wife in for two weekends, cancelled multiple business trips which had pre-booked flights, two weeks accomodatation... really really frustrating... sanity and job may soon become untenable and all for something which EU says is a 'given'...


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

leedavey said:


> I have burned through two booked return flights, flown the wife in for two weekends, cancelled multiple business trips which had pre-booked flights, two weeks accomodatation... really really frustrating... sanity and job may soon become untenable and all for something which EU says is a 'given'...


Another day without an email, which means I am here until at least Monday...

Booked to fly to the US on Tuesday from the UK (flights booked prior to EEA FP application) will know by COB tomorrow if that business trip will also need to be cancelled... then job under real pressure.

Spoke to security staff at the embassy yesterday and they gave me the impression that there are a lot of people waiting for news. This new system does not seem to be working and certainly seems to go against the 'accelerated procedure' EC directive.

UKBA internal guidance states:


"EUN2.3 How quickly do I need to issue an EEA family permit?

Priority must be given to applications for EEA family permits. Wherever possible a decision should be made at the time it is lodged or after an interview is conducted.

However, the Regulations do not say that EEA family permits must be issued on the day that the application is made. The Directive does allow Member States to take reasonable measures to ensure that freedom of movement is not obtained by deception. Where you suspect a marriage of convenience or even 'sham' employment for the purpose of freedom of movement, further enquiries should be made and credibility may be tested. As long as delays are justifiable, applications can be tested until the ECO is fully satisfied."


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Another day without an email, which means I am here until at least Monday...
> 
> Booked to fly to the US on Tuesday from the UK (flights booked prior to EEA FP application) will know by COB tomorrow if that business trip will also need to be cancelled... then job under real pressure.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how it can be taking such a long time. Checked back to our first EEA FP application from Sydney & we received our email (from Manila!) four days after lodgement.

It is possible to cancel your application & get your passport back? You are still eliglible to remain in UK on your existing permit, the new one is just for convenience and ease of entry into UK. My husband entered the UK after his permit had "expired" and border control just asked him if he lived here (in UK). Mind you, I was travelling with him but perhaps if you wife was at the airport to meet you and/or travelled with you to US (obviously significant cost involved) then there wouldn't be a problem.

Of course at this point it would probably take just as long to get your passport back. This is beyond frustrating especially when it's having such an impact on your work.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> I don't understand how it can be taking such a long time. Checked back to our first EEA FP application from Sydney & we received our email (from Manila!) four days after lodgement.
> 
> It is possible to cancel your application & get your passport back? You are still eliglible to remain in UK on your existing permit, the new one is just for convenience and ease of entry into UK. My husband entered the UK after his permit had "expired" and border control just asked him if he lived here (in UK). Mind you, I was travelling with him but perhaps if you wife was at the airport to meet you and/or travelled with you to US (obviously significant cost involved) then there wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Of course at this point it would probably take just as long to get your passport back. This is beyond frustrating especially when it's having such an impact on your work.


Yes, you make a great point; my original application was processed in Manila and returned to Australia in 3 days.

The security staff at the embassy told me yesterday that cancelling the application and getting your passport back takes 5 working days... this does not help my situation.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

leedavey said:


> Yes, you make a great point; my original application was processed in Manila and returned to Australia in 3 days.
> 
> The security staff at the embassy told me yesterday that cancelling the application and getting your passport back takes 5 working days... this does not help my situation.


Because all applications made in Dublin are sent to London for processing and it takes up to 5 days to retrieve your passport from Croydon and send it back to Dublin.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> I don't understand how it can be taking such a long time. Checked back to our first EEA FP application from Sydney & we received our email (from Manila!) four days after lodgement.
> 
> It is possible to cancel your application & get your passport back? You are still eliglible to remain in UK on your existing permit, the new one is just for convenience and ease of entry into UK. My husband entered the UK after his permit had "expired" and border control just asked him if he lived here (in UK). Mind you, I was travelling with him but perhaps if you wife was at the airport to meet you and/or travelled with you to US (obviously significant cost involved) then there wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Of course at this point it would probably take just as long to get your passport back. This is beyond frustrating especially when it's having such an impact on your work.


Even though it would not help my work situation in terms of travel etc, every day I am stuck here I admire your husband more for taking the risk and heading back to the UK to wait this thing out.


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Even though it would not help my work situation in terms of travel etc, every day I am stuck here I admire your husband more for taking the risk and heading back to the UK to wait this thing out.


We are due to fly this evening, so fingers crossed it will be okay for him again. 

Some (potentially) good news though - we opted to have his passport sent out to an irish address rather than collect, as hubby came back to UK. My friend emailed me today that something had arrived by registered mail for him! Unfortunately she was at work and unable to open it for me!

Don't want to get hopes up, perhaps they are just returning documents, marriage cert etc....but surely? I still haven't received any kind of notification by email that the permit has been issued so trying not to expect too much.

So maybe you will make that flight to US after all.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> We are due to fly this evening, so fingers crossed it will be okay for him again.
> 
> Some (potentially) good news though - we opted to have his passport sent out to an irish address rather than collect, as hubby came back to UK. My friend emailed me today that something had arrived by registered mail for him! Unfortunately she was at work and unable to open it for me!
> 
> ...


Sorry for the delay, I have been pulling myself together; I got the email informing me of the reply to this thread, read your post then literally 30 seconds later my email came through!!! Picking up Monday morning, flying to US on Tuesday. Employment safe, sanity somewhat retained (although I will never forget these almost 3 weeks...)

Good luck coming through passport control this evening! The wife and I are off to celebrate!!

Kind regards,

Lee


----------



## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Sorry for the delay, I have been pulling myself together; I got the email informing me of the reply to this thread, read your post then literally 30 seconds later my email came through!!! Picking up Monday morning, flying to US on Tuesday. Employment safe, sanity somewhat retained (although I will never forget these almost 3 weeks...)
> 
> Good luck coming through passport control this evening! The wife and I are off to celebrate!!
> 
> ...


Whew! Glad to hear your good news. Hopefully SAMie will have equally good news to share very soon!


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Whew! Glad to hear your good news. Hopefully SAMie will have equally good news to share very soon!


Thank you very much for your message, if you were here I would buy you a beer! Sounds like they have the package in safe keeping... absence of an email is a little odd though?


----------



## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Sorry for the delay, I have been pulling myself together; I got the email informing me of the reply to this thread, read your post then literally 30 seconds later my email came through!!! Picking up Monday morning, flying to US on Tuesday. Employment safe, sanity somewhat retained (although I will never forget these almost 3 weeks...)
> 
> Good luck coming through passport control this evening! The wife and I are off to celebrate!!
> 
> ...


Hi Lee,

Hurrah!! Excellent news. Arrived safely into Dublin, but did have some trouble, with immigration officer, got a slap on the wrist because hubby's not irish / british, and he said they would send Aer Lingus a fine for letting us board, which isn't good, but let him in anyway. It was a tense moment! 

Package was in safe hands, with passport and all our documents enclosed. Very happy! Went to my friends 40th birthday party, had a great time and flew back to London this evening using proper ID!

Phew! What an experience. So glad you've got your sanity back! Not to mention still being gainfully employed! Have a good flight back, and thanks for all your support in the past couple of weeks. It was definately easier knowing someone else was in the same situation.

Cheers
Sam


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> Hi Lee,
> 
> Hurrah!! Excellent news. Arrived safely into Dublin, but did have some trouble, with immigration officer, got a slap on the wrist because hubby's not irish / british, and he said they would send Aer Lingus a fine for letting us board, which isn't good, but let him in anyway. It was a tense moment!
> 
> ...


Hi Sam,

Very glad it worked out for you. Although I did grow to envy your other half for taling the risk to head back to the UK sans passport I simply could not take the risk of having a black mark next to my name for being refused re-entry into Ireland.

I am looking forward to flying back home for 20 hours or so before heading off to the US. 

Thank you guys for giving me the sanity check through the whole process... it was very comforting to know that the processing time for my application was not abnormal.

Take care.

Lee


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

To anyone who stumbles across this thread while looking into applying for a second EEA Family Permit, I will summarise the lessons learned:

1. Do not apply in Dublin. Do your research and find a visa application centre which retains the authority to process applications 'in house'.

2. If for some reason you must apply in Dublin; be aware that although the UKBA website, at the time of posting, still shows 94% of EEA Family Permits are processed in 2 days, under the new system which involves sending the applications to the UK for processing the applications of myself and SAMie's husband took 11-12 working days (not including the day of appointment). There is of course a chance that this time period could change over time but this certainly seems to be the turnaround period for this stage of the new process.

3. Applications in centres which do not retain the authority to process 'in house' will turn you away if all of your supporting documentation is not photocopied.

4. Although the UKBA website advises that you may not turn up too early (or indeed too late) for your scheduled appointment, SAMie's husband proved that this is not correct. Turn up first and you will most likely be served first. The security staff at the front gate issue you with a number once you have proved that you do indeed have an appointment for that day, and you will be called by number to the counters once inside.

Regardless of the above... I must say that if you find yourself in the UK on an EEA Family Permit, you require your passport for business travel and you are wondering what to do... you should probably explore the theory of applying for a Residence Card by submitting all relevant supprting documentation with just a certified copy of your passport. A cover letter included with the application promises to produce the original passport for verification at any time it is required by the UKBA. Using this method will hopefully render a Certificate of Application within circa a couple of months, with which you should be able to talk you way though passport control until your RC is issued.

Anyway good luck to all who try to fit into a system which was not designed to make things easy.

Lee


----------



## Jess.L (May 8, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Do not apply in Dublin. Do your research and find a visa application centre which retains the authority to process applications 'in house'.


Any idea where one could find this kind of information, along with processing times?

Also, to apply at a UKBA office in a certain European country, you need to have an address in that country where they can mail your documents, yes?

Thank you for sharing those lessons!


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Jess.L said:


> Any idea where one could find this kind of information, along with processing times?
> 
> Also, to apply at a UKBA office in a certain European country, you need to have an address in that country where they can mail your documents, yes?
> 
> Thank you for sharing those lessons!



Hi Jess,


Very good questions. 


With regard to your first question, I guess there are a few ways to try and find out whether a particular location processes applications on site:

* you can try calling the UKBA European Enquiries Contact Centre on 0845 010 5200 and see if they can/will tell you.

* you can try emailing Worldbridge (for free) and ask them. Their replies are oft unhelpful but I did find out through this method that thr applications from Cyprus are sent to Rome for processing. They also have a pay-for-service phone number which I have never tried and therefore cannot comment on.

* you may get some clues from the stated processing times for a particular location, which is a neat segway into the second part of your question.

The processing times are posted on the UKBA site on the country specific page (e.g. UK Border Agency | Visa processing times in Ireland)

Most pages, with the notable exception of Ireland, list EEA Family Permit applications specifically in the processing times list. Ireland used to show this but now it has been removed.


Your second question is about a local address. You do not require this as you are able to collect your passport and supporting documents when they are ready. You will receive an email from Worldbridge advising when they are back and there will be specific times when you are able to collect (e.g. 9am - 9:30am Mon, Wed, Fri in Dublin). In my case I received my email Friday afternoon so had to spend yet another weekend in Dublin, and collect on the Monday morning. Just something else to keep in mind.

Hope this helps.

Just out of curiosity, where are you considering applying?

Kind regards,

Lee


----------



## Jess.L (May 8, 2012)

Thanks so much for your response Lee. It's too bad that applications for the EEA FP can't be submitted within the UK for those who already have one. I suppose that would be too easy huh? 

I was initially thinking of renewing the EEA FP in Malta (as I am a Maltese citizen and have family we could stay with there). In the link below, would the FP count as _Family Visit (6 months or less)_ or _Other Visit (6 months or less)_? If the processing time is only 5 days, then going to Malta seems convenient. If it takes up to 40 days, it's not worth it. 
UK Border Agency | Visa processing times in Malta

If the Malta route doesn't seem viable, I think we may just apply for EEA2 in order to avoid complications with leaving the UK and waiting for the permit. If my husband gets a job (which is the plan), it may not be entirely possible for him to leave for up to 3 weeks.


----------



## Jess.L (May 8, 2012)

Jess.L said:


> I was initially thinking of renewing the EEA FP in Malta (as I am a Maltese citizen and have family we could stay with there). In the link below, would the FP count as _Family Visit (6 months or less)_ or _Other Visit (6 months or less)_? If the processing time is only 5 days, then going to Malta seems convenient. If it takes up to 40 days, it's not worth it.
> UK Border Agency | Visa processing times in Malta


Actually, when I compare the above link with the processing times for the USA (UK Border Agency | Visa processing times in the USA), on the USA page, the EEA FP is listed separately. Since it's not specifically listed on the Malta page, this may imply that processing for EEA FPs is sent elsewhere?


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Jess.L said:


> Actually, when I compare the above link with the processing times for the USA (UK Border Agency | Visa processing times in the USA), on the USA page, the EEA FP is listed separately. Since it's not specifically listed on the Malta page, this may imply that processing for EEA FPs is sent elsewhere?


Hi Jess,

I suspect you are right and I was going to mention it in my post but decided not to as I really cannot say for sure: but yes I do think that if the EEA Family Permit I is not listed specifically that maybe they do not process in house. This certainly proves true for Ireland.

With family in Malta though, even if they send to Rome for processing, it may be fine for you.

Keep in mind with the EEA2 application that officially he needs to send his passport in with the application and will need to apply to get it back if he needs it during the process.

I applied for EEA2 with a certified copy of my passport and have not heard anything back to date, do cannot comment on that method.

My wife and I are visiting Malta at the end of August, can't wait!

Kind regards,

Lee


----------



## Jess.L (May 8, 2012)

Do they accept certified passport copies for the EEA2 application in lieu of the actual passport? If we apply for EEA2, we would definitely need to request his passport back as we plan on travelling around the UK (we'll only be there for one year so we should take advantage of it!).

It's interesting to note that Rome processing times look pretty good (despite this last being updated April): http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/c...-times/?langname=UK English#resultTableAnchor


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Jess.L said:


> Do they accept certified passport copies for the EEA2 application in lieu of the actual passport? If we apply for EEA2, we would definitely need to request his passport back as we plan on travelling around the UK (we'll only be there for one year so we should take advantage of it!).
> 
> It's interesting to note that Rome processing times look pretty good (despite this last being updated April): http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/c...-times/?langname=UK English#resultTableAnchor


Hi Jess,

Officially they do not accept a certified copy of the passport in lieu of the original, but I am trying it as I have no other choice (I need my passport every couple of weeks for work travel). I will post on here when I get a response from the UKBA.

You won't need his passport to travel around the UK, but it will be mighty handy if you want to travel further afield... and don't fancy stowing away on a cargo ship!

Kind regards,


Lee


----------



## Jess.L (May 8, 2012)

Definitely keep us posted. They also needed your wife's EEA passport right?

I'm definitely going to have to request both of our passports back. You didn't do the same?


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Jess.L said:


> Definitely keep us posted. They also needed your wife's EEA passport right?
> 
> I'm definitely going to have to request both of our passports back. You didn't do the same?


Hi Jess,


Both submitted as certified copies only. All other supporting documentation were originals however.


Kind regards,


Lee


----------



## Jess.L (May 8, 2012)

leedavey said:


> Hi Jess,
> 
> 
> Both submitted as certified copies only. All other supporting documentation were originals however.
> ...


Keep us posted on how that goes. Also, let me know if you need any tips for your visit to Malta.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

Jess.L said:


> Keep us posted on how that goes. Also, let me know if you need any tips for your visit to Malta.


Will do, and any tips would be great! We haven't booked any accommodation yet so we have a blank canvas.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

UKBA sent back my application and supporting documents today, after 3 months.

They cited lack of evidence due to:

1. No original passports included: I included cover letters for both myself and my wife explaining why we could not include our original passports as we need them for frequent travel, and offering to present them to the UKBA once my application was assigned to a case worker.

2. No evidence of Exercising Treaty Rights in the UK: I listed my wife as Self Sufficient (from my income) they want 6 months bank statements and evidence of comprehensive health insurance. I included both of these as well as additional evidence of our asset position.

So my experiment failed and it has cost me 3 months of my current EEA Family Permit.

Does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer?


----------



## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

As I will be in the same boat next year so I’ve been following your thread. 



leedavey said:


> UKBA sent back my application and supporting documents today, after 3 months.
> 
> They cited lack of evidence due to:
> 
> 1. No original passports included: I included cover letters for both myself and my wife explaining why we could not include our original passports as we need them for frequent travel, and offering to present them to the UKBA once my application was assigned to a case worker.


I understand about the requirement for original passports for an EEA2 application



leedavey said:


> 2. No evidence of Exercising Treaty Rights in the UK: I listed my wife as Self Sufficient (from my income) they want 6 months bank statements and evidence of comprehensive health insurance. I included both of these as well as additional evidence of our asset position.
> 
> So my experiment failed and it has cost me 3 months of my current EEA Family Permit.
> 
> Does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer?


 I do not understand why they would refuse justification for self-sufficient status (6-months bank statements and proof of CSI). [Self-sufficient is the status I will also use for an EEA2.)


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

gairloch said:


> As I will be in the same boat next year so I’ve been following your thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



gairloch,

They accepted the same self-sufficiency evidence in April 2012 for my second EEA Family Permit (i.e. same bank statements and private health cover documents).


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

SAMie said:


> We are due to fly this evening, so fingers crossed it will be okay for him again.
> 
> Some (potentially) good news though - we opted to have his passport sent out to an irish address rather than collect, as hubby came back to UK. My friend emailed me today that something had arrived by registered mail for him! Unfortunately she was at work and unable to open it for me!
> 
> ...



Hi Sam,


You mentioned above that the package arrived without any email notification. Can you please let me know if an email ever came through advising you of the decision?

Many thanks,

Lee


----------



## calabresi (Oct 23, 2012)

Joppa said:


> VAF5 assumes you are applying in the country of residence, but you can actually get your EEA permit at any British diplomatic post that issues visas. You just have to complete the form in the way it applies to you.
> 
> Hi, I am currently living in the uk under the EEA family permit wich is about to expire (my husband is EU national, working here). I wish to apply again for the 6 months EEA family permit, not for the residence permit. Could you please explain a little more about that statement above? I have a similar situation as above.
> 
> ...


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

calabresi said:


> Joppa said:
> 
> 
> > VAF5 assumes you are applying in the country of residence, but you can actually get your EEA permit at any British diplomatic post that issues visas. You just have to complete the form in the way it applies to you.
> ...


----------



## calabresi (Oct 23, 2012)

ok, thank you very much for your advice.


----------



## jay009 (Sep 7, 2012)

hi . guys . i have few queries regarding the EEA family permit i got for 6 month till april . and i am going to joine my wife in uk nextr week . can i work on that document ? and what will be next step to extand the family permit will it for 5 years ?


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

jay009 said:


> hi . guys . i have few queries regarding the EEA family permit i got for 6 month till april . and i am going to joine my wife in uk nextr week . can i work on that document ? and what will be next step to extand the family permit will it for 5 years ?


Hi jay009,

Indeed you can work on the EEA Family Permit.

My advice would be to apply for an EEA Residence Card as soon as possible after arriving in the UK. 

In order to apply you need to complete an EEA2 application form, include both your passport and the EEA nationals passport/ID card, along with evidence of relationship, evidence that the EEA national is exercising treaty rights in the UK (this is key to the application) etc.

Should you require your passports back for travel you can request them back without jeopardising your application.


----------



## hodd (Dec 19, 2012)

leedavey said:


> ... if you find yourself in the UK on an EEA Family Permit, you require your passport for business travel and you are wondering what to do... you should probably explore the theory of applying for a Residence Card by submitting all relevant supprting documentation with just a certified copy of your passport. A cover letter included with the application promises to produce the original passport for verification at any time it is required by the UKBA. Using this method will hopefully render a Certificate of Application within circa a couple of months, with which you should be able to talk you way though passport control until your RC is issued.


Hello all and thanks to Lee for the words above.

I'm a UK citizen with a non-EU wife who is about to apply for the EEA2 Residence Card. It's no problem to include her passport with the application, but I need my UK passport to travel for work. I'm going to just try and send a certified copy (dated August 2012 from the British Embassy in Berlin) with a cover letter as recommended above. 

I just wondered if anyone has done likewise (sent the original non-EU passport but only a certified copy of the UK passport) and how things progressed. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## hodd (Dec 19, 2012)

I'll answer my own question. I just phoned the UKBA Immigration Enquiry Bureau (0870 606 7766) who confirmed all documents must be originals, and a certified copy of my UK passport would not be accepted.


----------



## leedavey (May 20, 2011)

hodd said:


> I'll answer my own question. I just phoned the UKBA Immigration Enquiry Bureau (0870 606 7766) who confirmed all documents must be originals, and a certified copy of my UK passport would not be accepted.



If you refer to message #65 in this thread you will see that my attempt failed.

I went down the original passports route and it took 5 weeks, 10 requests and eventually a lawyer to get them back. Some people have managed to get their passports returned quickly though, it seems it may be case worker dependent.

EEA nationals can send their ID card in lieu of their passport... do the UK issue such cards?


----------



## hodd (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks Lee. I saw your later post #65 and then phoned UKBA to check.

I will just have to send my passport and try and get it returned asap. I'll provide an update then.

Unfortunately, the UK is just about the only EU country without an ID card.


----------



## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

hodd said:


> Thanks Lee. I saw your later post #65 and then phoned UKBA to check.
> 
> I will just have to send my passport and try and get it returned asap. I'll provide an update then.
> 
> Unfortunately, the UK is just about the only EU country without an ID card.


You don't need to send she will submit it as supporting document is save you get it back when her passport is ready for pick up if you leave in the same country with your non EEA spouse you must submit your passport or ID in Germany is call auswiese


----------



## hodd (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Lessenich

Thanks, but we are now both in the UK. I am a British citizen who was working in Germany before, and I therefore "exercised my EEA treaty right" and came/returned to the UK.

My wife already has the UK Entry Clearance, which is valid for six months. Now she must apply for the EEA2 Residence Permit. The application paperwork must include my original UK passport, which is inconvenient, but at least I now know there is no alternative.

The UK has no ID (or Ausweis).


----------

