# Retiring to Abruzzo region



## Shaka

Hi I'm new and would love any advice/tips re retiring to Abruzzo Italy


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## pudd 2

Shaka said:


> Hi I'm new and would love any advice/tips re retiring to Abruzzo Italy


My first reaction would be do it youl love it as we have retired to abruzzo been here 11 years know all the bad guys and have sorted out whos good its been a long hard road as we were some of the first English to come to abruzzo and we still love it here , and like to pass on our experiances good and bad 
if you have any questions about the area I will be pleased to anwer them


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## Shaka

pudd 2 said:


> My first reaction would be do it youl love it as we have retired to abruzzo been here 11 years know all the bad guys and have sorted out whos good its been a long hard road as we were some of the first English to come to abruzzo and we still love it here , and like to pass on our experiances good and bad
> if you have any questions about the area I will be pleased to anwer them


Thank you I would really appreciate your imput. We have been to Abruzzo and liked the area around Teramo preferring hill views rather than being up in the mountains. While we would love a house with a garden we don't want to be secluded so is it realistic to get a house but be close enough to integrate into village life?What price could we expect to pay for that type of house. We are open to other areas you might suggest. How are you finding health care in Italy? We are Irish living in the US for the last 21 yrs but are still EU citizens. Thanks in advance/


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## sheilamarsco

try the area around bisenti you have the best of both worlds half way between the mountains and the coast. price of houses will depend on the condition and size if you were looking for 3 beds etc., with some land around 160000 euros there are lots of houses on the market at the moment so there should be plenty of choice. good luck


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## pudd 2

hi don't get a fixed idear on an area beware of areas were the houses are cheap with lots of land and good isolated views , mask you selfe why are these houses cheap . why are there no locals buying them and why are the English selling up in certane areas 
the best way is to start by staying a day our two in all the diferent areas of abruzzo 
which is a large chalk and chease area 
chieti being the biggest region . 
one thing you will notice is a distance between places looks short on a map . but by the time you have wound your self roun the hills and valleys it takes hours , espeshally in the south and north of abruzzo , you will notice there are more living villages with young people in the central area of abruzzo 
another thing to take into account is getting to a hospital or an airport on a dark winters night - even a good restaurant 
any way must go now I have so much to say about abruzzo it could take me all day 
they say of the abruzzo people strong but kind forti ma gentile


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## NickZ

Shaka said:


> . How are you finding health care in Italy? We are Irish living in the US for the last 21 yrs but are still EU citizens. Thanks in advance/


So you can't get the EU health card. Right? Unless you're receiving an EU pension you'll need private health insurance.


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## pudd 2

NickZ said:


> So you can't get the EU health card. Right? Unless you're receiving an EU pension you'll need private health insurance.


Not nesarly true if you open a bed and breakfast as we did before we retired we got a carta di sanitare no problem and an accountant for tax easy peasy


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## Shaka

pudd 2 said:


> Not nesarly true if you open a bed and breakfast as we did before we retired we got a carta di sanitare no problem and an accountant for tax easy peasy


Thanks for all the imput certainly there is plenty to consider I think staying in different areas makes sense and I know the area around Bisenti too. Can I get an EU health card if I retire before I am due to receive my Irish state pension or would I have to get private health insurance for those years until I am eligible?I am hoping not to work when we go to Italy.
Thanks again


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## Shaka

Thank you so much I know the area around Castel Castagna which is not far from Bisenti. How bad do the winters get in that area.


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## Shaka

NickZ said:


> So you can't get the EU health card. Right? Unless you're receiving an EU pension you'll need private health insurance.


Thanks that's what I'm wondering because as an Eu citizen I would be entitled to an Irish pension but I would want to retire to Italy before becoming eligible for that so would I get a health card or just get private insurance to cover us during those years. Health care is a big deal to consider. Thanks again.


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## pudd 2

Shaka said:


> Thanks that's what I'm wondering because as an Eu citizen I would be entitled to an Irish pension but I would want to retire to Italy before becoming eligible for that so would I get a health card or just get private insurance to cover us during those years. Health care is a big deal to consider. Thanks again.


please re read my post it will tell you how we done it before we retired and got full Italian health cover


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## sheilamarsco

re the health card issue not sure as i am retired so not an issue i had to consider but i think you just have to prove you have a certain amount in the bank to cover for emergencies and then wait until you start claiming your pension when you are entitled to health care as an eu Citizen. re winters in abruzzo depends..... they are cold for sure but the amount of snow can vary this year there was very little but the year before about 2 metres but really that was exceptional. normally not much and only lasts for a week if that.


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## NickZ

pudd 2 said:


> Not nesarly true if you open a bed and breakfast as we did before we retired we got a carta di sanitare no problem and an accountant for tax easy peasy


With the tax crack downs it might be cheaper to just get health insurance.


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## NickZ

Shaka said:


> Thanks that's what I'm wondering because as an Eu citizen I would be entitled to an Irish pension but I would want to retire to Italy before becoming eligible for that so would I get a health card or just get private insurance to cover us during those years. Health care is a big deal to consider. Thanks again.


You would need to check with Ireland if they'd give you the current EU health card. The numbers keep changing but if you surf over to the EU website it should be easy enough to find.

In Italy unless you're working you'll need private cover until your Irish pension kicks in. Or the EU card from Ireland.


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## Shaka

sheilamarsco said:


> re the health card issue not sure as i am retired so not an issue i had to consider but i think you just have to prove you have a certain amount in the bank to cover for emergencies and then wait until you start claiming your pension when you are entitled to health care as an eu Citizen. re winters in abruzzo depends..... they are cold for sure but the amount of snow can vary this year there was very little but the year before about 2 metres but really that was exceptional. normally not much and only lasts for a week if that.


Thanks for the timely response
I guess the higher you get the colder it can be so I feel encouraged that I could survive Italian winters after 25 yrs in Hawaii.


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## Shaka

Yes I forgot you did the B&B what is it called and where is it?


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## Shaka

Health insurance in Italy appears to be so much cheaper in Italy than the USA so I think that would make sense


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## pudd 2

Shaka said:


> Yes I forgot you did the B&B what is it called and where is it?


look at my sicnature its in pretoro in the cjhieti region of abruzzo


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## Rhinelover

I've been following this thread, and I have a question.
I am US citizen, living in the US. I hope to retire in Italy. However, I have come to the realization...I am not one to completely retire.
Is it possible for my sister and I to have a B&B and contribute to the tax system, and receive health insurance in Italy? By that I mean, would we be on the Italian health system? I've checked into private health insurance as an expat....I just about fainted!

Thanks!


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## Rhinelover

I should have added, my sister and I are 62.


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## pudd 2

Rhinelover said:


> I've been following this thread, and I have a question.
> I am US citizen, living in the US. I hope to retire in Italy. However, I have come to the realization...I am not one to completely retire.
> Is it possible for my sister and I to have a B&B and contribute to the tax system, and receive health insurance in Italy? By that I mean, would we be on the Italian health system? I've checked into private health insurance as an expat....I just about fainted!
> 
> Thanks!


yes we did it before retiring opened a B-B got Italian health cover and ann accountant ulike the house agents told us and still are telling other people you do pay tax on a bb with less than ten beds . they just tell fbs to sell houses . 
Whatarea are you moving to if its abruzzo or southern Italy I know a man who can help you with all this and he speaks American if you want his contact details send me a private message or an email which you can see in my signature or if you want to talk to me to discus bb over here feel free


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## BBCWatcher

U.K. citizens have an EU treaty right to live and work in Italy. U.S. citizens do not. Italy has an elective residence visa program, but operating a B&B in Italy would not be a permitted activity.

However, oddly enough foreign (non-EU) elective residents in Italy probably have an easier time getting onto the Italian public health system.


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## Rhinelover

BBCWatcher said:


> U.K. citizens have an EU treaty right to live and work in Italy. U.S. citizens do not. Italy has an elective residence visa program, but operating a B&B in Italy would not be a permitted activity.
> 
> However, oddly enough foreign (non-EU) elective residents in Italy probably have an easier time getting onto the Italian public health system.


Thanks for the clarification. 
How would it be easier to get on the public health system?


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## pudd 2

I hate to contradict bbc but I see you are coming from being an expat in Germany as for the bb thing does not becoming a Italian resident our citizen alter things somewhat but ther are no brick walls when it comes to laws in Italy each commune reads the law that seems more conveinient to them and theirs and any one who says he knows the law in Italy does not exist as it changes with the wind


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## Rhinelover

pudd 2 said:


> I hate to contradict bbc but I see you are coming from being an expat in Germany as for the bb thing does not becoming a Italian resident our citizen alter things somewhat but ther are no brick walls when it comes to laws in Italy each commune reads the law that seems more conveinient to them and theirs and any one who says he knows the law in Italy does not exist as it changes with the wind



Pudd 2, I am in the US. At one time I wished to move to Germany.

When we move it will be legally, I don't wish to be pulled back and forth...as the wind blows.
I don't like looking over my shoulder and would like my life in Italy to be as stress free as possible, which may be asking alot!

Thanks for the advice!

Thank you for the advice and info.


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## pudd 2

Rhinelover said:


> Pudd 2, I am in the US. At one time I wished to move to Germany.
> 
> When we move it will be legally, I don't wish to be pulled back and forth...as the wind blows.
> I don't like looking over my shoulder and would like my life in Italy to be as stress free as possible, which may be asking alot!
> 
> Thanks for the advice!
> 
> Thank you for the advice and info.


it is asking a lot , when we first came here from the uk we wentn to get our pemeso de sorgorno permission to stay in Italy we were given a six month one as we were told by the questere in chieti that England was not in the n eropian community ie the common market they believed they were right if you want straight doiwn the line don't come to Italy as each commune has its own understanding of the rules in other words when in rome having said that we keep our noses clean and are very happy here , just do not try and bring logic and laws to Italy and every one would like to be legal in Italy but no body has sixt sence


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## Shaka

When you say you looked into private health insurance who did you check with, how much approx. did you get quoted ,did you almost 'faint' because it was so much cheaper in Europe because compared to what I'm paying in the US it is much cheaper in Europe I think. I would like your thoughts on this
thanks


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## NickZ

Rhinelover said:


> Pudd 2, I am in the US. At one time I wished to move to Germany.
> 
> When we move it will be legally, I don't wish to be pulled back and forth...as the wind blows.
> I don't like looking over my shoulder and would like my life in Italy to be as stress free as possible, which may be asking alot!
> 
> Thanks for the advice!
> 
> Thank you for the advice and info.



The problem is you'd need a visa to start with.

What visa do you qualify for?

The non working visa forbids work.

The student visa requires you to go to school.

A few weeks back the government basically stated the normal work visa route would be closed for a decade. This from a bunch that's been proven overly optimistic on the economy for almost a decade.

Worse you'll also need health care sorted before you get to Italy for your visa application.

Not to add all the other issues with running a business. Since when is running a business stress free?

You'll need to meet all the regs. You'll face spot checks. GDF has been stopping people coming out of agritursimso etc.


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## pudd 2

has every body gone home where are you


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## matmatteo

How about a single guy, age 73 in good health who wants to return to
the land of is ancestors, Italy. Where, how much money do I need. I speak a little
Italian.


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## pudd 2

it has proven easy for lots of americans coming back to there roots as for money how do want to live ect lingo as long as you can say boun gorno and grazia and smile that will do for starters if you need any help I can put you in touch with americans who have moved to abruzzo


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## stefanaccio

Concur with Pudd ing eniosity! That said, it is good to do your homework before arriving. Also, very difficult to earn money on the Italian economy.


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## sobemike

*sobemike*

Hello all, I just joined this thread. I'm a dual national, USA and UK, of 100% Italian descent. I am currently living in Abu Dhabi, UAE, and looking to buy a property in my maternal grandfather's village, Pettorano sul Gizio. I'd like to know of legal issues, problems from expat buyer in Italy. Since I have EU citizenship, I know there will be no legal obstacles preventing me from living in Italy. However, I don't know Italian property laws and have heard many horror stories of fellow Brits buying property in Spain.


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## pudd 2

sobemike said:


> Hello all, I just joined this thread. I'm a dual national, USA and UK, of 100% Italian descent. I am currently living in Abu Dhabi, UAE, and looking to buy a property in my maternal grandfather's village, Pettorano sul Gizio. I'd like to know of legal issues, problems from expat buyer in Italy. Since I have EU citizenship, I know there will be no legal obstacles preventing me from living in Italy. However, I don't know Italian property laws and have heard many horror stories of fellow Brits buying property in Spain.


unlike spain Italy is very thougher on house sales and purchase where is the town your talking about is it in abruzzo


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## sobemike

pudd 2 said:


> unlike spain Italy is very thougher on house sales and purchase where is the town your talking about is it in abruzzo


In the province of Aquila about 4 kilometers from Sulmona.


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## sobemike

It appears that my reply was not published. Apologies if it's printed more than once. Thanks for your reply. Pettorano sul Gizio is a tiny village four kilometers outside the city of Sulmona. I see you're also from the UK. Other than taking a very long time to close, I have no problem buying a property in the UK. It took me three months to close on my flat in London whilst it usually takes less than a month to close in the US. Do the Italians perform a a title search guaranteeing that there are no leans or disputed claims of ownership against the property? What about engineering reports? I speak no Italian ; but can get by in Spanish. I found my Spanish not very helpful at all except when I met someone working the the Atri (city in Abruzzo) City Hall who spoke Spanish; but not English. I will not need to work in Italy. I want to use the property as a retirement home. Has anybody in this thread every rented out a property in Italy?


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## pudd 2

sobemike said:


> It appears that my reply was not published. Apologies if it's printed more than once. Thanks for your reply. Pettorano sul Gizio is a tiny village four kilometers outside the city of Sulmona. I see you're also from the UK. Other than taking a very long time to close, I have no problem buying a property in the UK. It took me three months to close on my flat in London whilst it usually takes less than a month to close in the US. Do the Italians perform a a title search guaranteeing that there are no leans or disputed claims of ownership against the property? What about engineering reports? I speak no Italian ; but can get by in Spanish. I found my Spanish not very helpful at all except when I met someone working the the Atri (city in Abruzzo) City Hall who spoke Spanish; but not English. I will not need to work in Italy. I want to use the property as a retirement home. Has anybody in this thread every rented out a property in Italy?


yep I googled you proposed village its a stones thow as the crow flys from were we live pretoro just the other side of the mountane towards the adreatic 
as for searches you need to find a good honest gerometer who will do the title seachs he will then pass them on to a notiao if you want names of English speaking geroms in this area and all so an English speaking avocato eq to our sollocter pm me I also now a very reliable English person who has bought and lived in sulmoner for several years and she like all of who have been here a wile has sorted whos bad and whos good and she letts out property any way pm me and see were we go from there


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## mcc100763

my advice would be to learn as much Italian as you can, never be afraid to ask, and at least learn two phrases in Italian...."Pardon my Italian" "How do you say that in Italian" and always be aware that you are now the funny foreigner


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## pudd 2

mcc100763 said:


> my advice would be to learn as much Italian as you can, never be afraid to ask, and at least learn two phrases in Italian...."Pardon my Italian" "How do you say that in Italian" and always be aware that you are now the funny foreigner


good advise , but I would like to add bee prepared to be charged a lot more for every thing , as you will not only be the funny foreigner ( but a poulie that's a chicken ready for plucking ) seek advise from people who have been here a wille , we did not have that optician as we were some of the first English in this area and boy did we get plucked


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## FlowerFairy5457

*Ritiring to Abruzzo*

My husband and I have been contemplating moving/retiring to Italy (we are in our 60s) and have seen a property in Introdacqua which very much appeals. We are waiting to sell our property here in Australia and in the meantime we have been thinking..thinking..thinking if this is the right thing to do. We will be living on our pension (with a little more in the bank). Our main concern is not speaking Italian (though we are determined to learn) and having to deal with normal day-to-day stuff and also my husband loves to drive and although we can start off with an International Driving Permit we will in the end have to obtain an Italian licence which will mean, of course, taking the test both theory and practical in Italian. I believe due to a reciprocal agreement we can be covered by the Italian health system but unfortunately it appears that no private health insurer will cover people over 65. Also there is the question of Abruzzo being an earthquake area and I also understand that one cannot insure for earthquakes and apparently Italians do not insure their homes. We also do not want to be isolated we want to be close to some colour and movement with easy access to cafes, restaurants, etc. Any advice anyone can give will be most appreciated. We know many people are leaving Italy and are we wise to even contemplate retiring to Italy? Ciao!


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## FlowerFairy5457

Hi Shaka I have just posted re retiring to Italy but we are also contemplating Ireland, are we mad? We left Northern Ireland in the early 70s and are now Australian Citizens and would love to retire to either Italy or Ireland.


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## stefanaccio

I know Introdacqua pretty well as I have several good friends there and have visited a number of times. Very friendly town. There is expat community of about three dozen anglophone families so you will find plenty of support even without knowledge of Italian. You are wise to be cautious. You will probably want a car in Introdacqua which gets back to your question of residency and health insurance. Without too much difficulty, you can find furnished Abruzzo rentals for about 500 euros/month or so. My plan would be to pick a slightly larger town with better transportation ties (probably nearby Sulmona), rent a place for 3 months or so, then see how you like it and where you want to go from there. The Brits near me who seem to be having troubles are the ones who bought relatively cheaply 5-10 years ago or so but now find themselves undercapitalized and with a weak income stream.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Many thanks Stefanaccio for your words of wisdom. When you see a couple of nice properties it is difficult to pull away though we see the sense in being nearer transport. We tend to go 'all in' as sometimes 'playing safe' tends to encourage one to run back without giving it your best shot. Having said that we will take your advice on board. Thanks!


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## NickZ

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> My husband and I have been contemplating moving/retiring to Italy (we are in our 60s) and have seen a property in Introdacqua which very much appeals. We are waiting to sell our property here in Australia and in the meantime we have been thinking..thinking..thinking if this is the right thing to do. We will be living on our pension (with a little more in the bank). Our main concern is not speaking Italian (though we are determined to learn) and having to deal with normal day-to-day stuff and also my husband loves to drive and although we can start off with an International Driving Permit we will in the end have to obtain an Italian licence which will mean, of course, taking the test both theory and practical in Italian. I believe due to a reciprocal agreement we can be covered by the Italian health system but unfortunately it appears that no private health insurer will cover people over 65. Also there is the question of Abruzzo being an earthquake area and I also understand that one cannot insure for earthquakes and apparently Italians do not insure their homes. We also do not want to be isolated we want to be close to some colour and movement with easy access to cafes, restaurants, etc. Any advice anyone can give will be most appreciated. We know many people are leaving Italy and are we wise to even contemplate retiring to Italy? Ciao!



What do you intend to do? Some people are happy being home people. Others want to travel. Some like beaches. Some like mountains. Define what you intend to do in retirement.

1) Wander over to Google maps and start planning out trips. Start with routine stuff like going to the shops. Work your way out to day trips etc. Understand the google times can be on the low side if traffic or weather happen. What may seem okay today might end up too far the older you get so factor that in.

2) Health care. I don't think Aussies have any special treatment. Being Aussies you'll need visas which will require health care.

3) Income depends totally on your lifestyle. You can live on virtually nothing or you can run out of money very easily. You can budget for food by checking the various grocery store websites. Coop and Conad both have websites showing the weekly sales . Take the time to check the prices.

4) You can get insurance. The problem prices may make it prohibitive. Abruzzo ranges from very high quake risk to low. Closer to the coast will be lower then the Apennines .

5) A lack of Italian can be a problem in emergency situations. Day to day you can likely get by just fine. Middle of the night if a pipe breaks and you try and call the plumper.


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## pudd 2

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> Many thanks Stefanaccio for your words of wisdom. When you see a couple of nice properties it is difficult to pull away though we see the sense in being nearer transport. We tend to go 'all in' as sometimes 'playing safe' tends to encourage one to run back without giving it your best shot. Having said that we will take your advice on board. Thanks!


hi why tuck your selves behind a mountane when you can be in frount of it looking at the Adriatic with the shelter of the mountane behind you good beaches 20 mins away airport 25 mins away ski 15 mins low eathqaike risk good roads very good . 
have you thought of looking the sea side of the mailelta in the chieti region *central you will be supresed how buitiful and how good the super structure is


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## FlowerFairy5457

Again, good advice. Will take on board. Thanks


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## FlowerFairy5457

Will take a look - thanks.


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## Shaka

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> Hi Shaka I have just posted re retiring to Italy but we are also contemplating Ireland, are we mad? We left Northern Ireland in the early 70s and are now Australian Citizens and would love to retire to either Italy or Ireland.


You know that a hard one. I think it really depends on how you want to spend you're retirement. We have lived in Hawaii for over 20yrs now and are from Ireland but we have decided to retire to Italy.

Our decision is based on how we see ourselves spending our retirement.
We will be relatively near family v many many hours away, family can visit us and vice versa. Italy has great weather for the most part and not as unpredictable as Ireland. Italian family life and traditions remind me of Ireland so no strange culture shock. Accessibility by car and rail to the rest of Europe , no planes or boat involved unless you chose to. Great health care and affordable private health insurance compared to the premiums we now pay in the US.Cost of living for general day to day is cheaper than the Us and probably cheaper than Ireland except for the price of gas. If you love Italy as we do then whatever speaks to your heart is the way I would go. House prices in Italy have not seen the major drops that Ireland has experienced and I suppose it also depends on which part of Ireland you are considering retiring too. City life v rural life is never the same in any one country so do some soul searching and fact gathering and then choose whether people think your decision is mad or not
We bought a village house in Abruzzo over the internet sight unseen until we went to Italy to close the sale. Yes it was a risk but the people we met at the realtors office are long distance friends now and although our little town house is not big enough to retire too it introduced us to Abruzzo/Le Marche and this area is definitely where we want to retire too. Think of it as a big adventure rent first in a few different areas and see.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Good response!!!!


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## FlowerFairy5457

*Health Insurance Cover*

Thanks 'Guys' for all your very valuable comments. My next question refers to Health Insurance Cover. From what I have read it appears that one must have private health insurance before you can enter Italy. We are in our 60s and have got online quotes form BUPA - As Australian citizens quote was in excess of AUD17,000.00 annually and if we go in as British citizens quote was GBP10,000.00. Horrendous!  From these figures it appears our dream has burned out before we have started. Can anyone confirm this is correct that we cannot enter Italy to obtain residency without private health insurance cover? From what I can gather this is correct but cannot find anyone to talk this over face to face who knows the actually situation. Your comments will be appreciated. Cheers


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## pudd 2

hi I will send you a pm with the name of someone who will help you your dreem is not gone


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## BBCWatcher

I assume you are applying for Elective Residency visas.

OK, it's important to separate two aspects of the process. One is demonstrating adequate medical insurance coverage when applying for the visa, and the other is getting coverage once in Italy. They're actually two different things.

My understanding is that you can sign up for crappy coverage to clear the visa hurdle. That crappy coverage only needs to include Italy, only needs to be catastrophic coverage, can have a low lifetime maximum (e.g. 100,000 euro), and only has to be for the first year. If it's partially or fully refundable upon early cancellation -- no need to advertise that -- even better. The effective date of coverage should be your proposed date of entry. Also, since you have Australian Medicare (I assume), I think your first 6 months might be covered under Medicare on the basis of Australia's agreement with Italy. So you might be able to shave that down to a 6 month policy. The exact parameters here are up to the consulate (at least to some degree), so ask them what their minimum coverage requirements are. But I think I've fairly described the typical patterns. Note that decent (or better) medical insurance is not required.

OK, so presumably you wouldn't actually want to live in Italy with only the crappy visa-compliant coverage I described. You're not 20-something "indestructible" university students. No problem. ER visa holders residing in Italy can buy into the Italian public health system. Some people describe the quoted premium as "determined by the phase of the moon" since local health officials seem to interpret the rules differently. However, last I heard the minimum is about 387 euro per person per year and the maximum is 7.5% of your income up to about 51,000 euro then 4.5% thereafter. (That's going from memory, so double check me on that.) But sometimes local officials don't charge the maximum, so you might get lucky. Everything is lined up to the calendar year, so it's best to buy coverage on January 1. (Well, as soon after January 1 as practical. January 1 is a holiday.) Premiums are not pro-rated, so if you buy in, say, November you get a terrible deal. Not the end of the world if you have to do that, but it's best to buy in January.

Note that your Italian health insurance card includes the EHIC, so you get EHIC level coverage in Europe. And I think an EHIC gives you basic coverage for a little while if you visit Australia, if that's otherwise a question. It won't provide coverage in, say, the U.S., but that's what travel insurance policies are for.

Make sense?


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## FlowerFairy5457

Thank you so so much!!!


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## FlowerFairy5457

BBCWatcher said:


> I assume you are applying for Elective Residency visas.
> 
> OK, it's important to separate two aspects of the process. One is demonstrating adequate medical insurance coverage when applying for the visa, and the other is getting coverage once in Italy. They're actually two different things.
> 
> My understanding is that you can sign up for crappy coverage to clear the visa hurdle. That crappy coverage only needs to include Italy, only needs to be catastrophic coverage, can have a low lifetime maximum (e.g. 100,000 euro), and only has to be for the first year. If it's partially or fully refundable upon early cancellation -- no need to advertise that -- even better. The effective date of coverage should be your proposed date of entry. Also, since you have Australian Medicare (I assume), I think your first 6 months might be covered under Medicare on the basis of Australia's agreement with Italy. So you might be able to shave that down to a 6 month policy. The exact parameters here are up to the consulate (at least to some degree), so ask them what their minimum coverage requirements are. But I think I've fairly described the typical patterns. Note that decent (or better) medical insurance is not required.
> 
> OK, so presumably you wouldn't actually want to live in Italy with only the crappy visa-compliant coverage I described. You're not 20-something "indestructible" university students. No problem. ER visa holders residing in Italy can buy into the Italian public health system. Some people describe the quoted premium as "determined by the phase of the moon" since local health officials seem to interpret the rules differently. However, last I heard the minimum is about 387 euro per person per year and the maximum is 7.5% of your income up to about 51,000 euro then 4.5% thereafter. (That's going from memory, so double check me on that.) But sometimes local officials don't charge the maximum, so you might get lucky. Everything is lined up to the calendar year, so it's best to buy coverage on January 1. (Well, as soon after January 1 as practical. January 1 is a holiday.) Premiums are not pro-rated, so if you buy in, say, November you get a terrible deal. Not the end of the world if you have to do that, but it's best to buy in January.
> 
> Note that your Italian health insurance card includes the EHIC, so you get EHIC level coverage in Europe. And I think an EHIC gives you basic coverage for a little while if you visit Australia, if that's otherwise a question. It won't provide coverage in, say, the U.S., but that's what travel insurance policies are for.
> 
> Make sense?


Thank you! You have restored some kind of hope. You will hopefully indulge me if I pester you again (my head is spinning with it all) - yes, we do have Medicare and I will check that out (I did read briefly the reciprocal agreement) but can you point me in the direction of where I might get "crappy coverage" i.e. an example insurance company? Again, thank you so very much for your advice, it has restored the dream.


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## BBCWatcher

The Italian consulate in Houston helpfully provides a list of crappy insurance providers. (Click on the English button at the top right of the page if the page comes up mostly empty.) And it turns out the visa-compliant insurance can be crappier than I thought since they say a 30,000 euro limit is sufficient.

This is what Houston thinks. There might be slight variations at other consulates, so ask when the time comes. (Only ask about visa-compliant insurance. Don't ask about what you're going to do in Italy -- that's beyond scope for the consulate. Keep it simple.) In Australia, Medicare and its 6 months of coverage in Italy is in your favor, and presumably Italian consulates in Australia would know how that works. (Bring your Medicare cards.) So presumably you could get 6 months of crappy insurance coverage that starts immediately after your 6 months of Medicare runs out, preferably with the ability to cancel that insurance for a full or near-full refund after you arrive in Italy and before it goes into effect (so that you can enroll in ASL in Italy).

On edit: If you don't like Houston's list, just use your favorite Internet search engine to find "Schengen visa medical insurance" and you should get some hits. The central point, though, is that satisfying the visa requirement requires only Schengen-compliant minimum (crappy) coverage, in your case for 12+ months total (since you're applying for ER visas). You wouldn't actually want to live with such insurance (unless you're broke), and once you get into Italy you wouldn't.


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## FlowerFairy5457

You are worth your weight in gold! Thanks to you I am now back on the property trail  - have just spotted a property near Ascoli Piceno (S. Lucia) La Marche area - we have another property in Introdacqua we very much like  The only other real hurdle is the driving licence! I know we can drive on an IDP after which we need to do the test in Italian, though people tell us one can renew the IDP (even someone in Australia can do it or you). Thank you for your contribution, you at least assisted with one of the two hurdles! We really thought we were 'goners' with the health insurance. Thank you


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## BBCWatcher

You're lucky if you have Australian drivers licenses. You can convert those licenses to Italian licenses in Italy without having to take the theory and practical tests. There's another special treaty providing that bit of good news.

I'd do the conversion well within the first year of your arrival. Australian license holders might be able to drive as long as three years without conversion -- I've seen conflicting information on that point -- but you might as well get it done sooner than that.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Are you serious???? Everything I have read says one has to get one's driver's licence within 12 months of residency??? AND it must be taken in Italian. I am obviously reading the wrong books! Worth your weight in gold, perhaps.....Lithium (is that more valuable than gold?) Will definitely delve deeper into this aspect (driver licence, not lithium  )


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## BBCWatcher

Regarding canceling your crappy insurance before it goes into effect. No problem, and I see that at least some carriers provide full refunds, but don't do that until both of these facts are true: 1. You have arrived in Italy, and 2. You have secured better coverage (i.e. enrolled in ASL).

The reason is that the insurance company can report your cancellation, and it's a visa violation to be without at least Schengen minimum standard insurance when in the Schengen Area. (I'm oversimplifying slightly there, but close enough.) So the sequence matters here.

There are variations possible. For example, let's suppose you arrive in Italy on May 1. You have 6 months of Medicare coverage which looks to be decent, so that takes you to October 31. You could sign up for ASL, but you'd have to pay the full annual price for only two months of coverage. So maybe you take the risk of living with crappy coverage for about 10 weeks (maybe a completely new policy with a cancellation of the visa-compliant policy, or maybe an early cancellation of your visa-compliant policy depending on which is the better deal), then get signed up for ASL in early January. It just depends on your particular situation.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Hi again - re Driving Licence. I have just done a quick google and apparently it appears that since March 2012 Australia is not on the list for exchanging drivers licence without doing a theory/practical test. Will keep delving......


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## BBCWatcher

Oh dear. Maybe that changed. I hope not.

Regarding medical insurance, as you can probably guess the ideal date for Australians with Medicare to move to Italy is in mid-July. That means the 6 months of Medicare takes you to mid-January, then ASL enrollment can take over for the full calendar year (and subsequent years).


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## pudd 2

there are numerous ways of getting heath care in Italy , all legal and non cost that much some cost nothing 
ive said it before and ill say it again , nothing is black and white in Italy , it all depends how the buracrat you go see reads the law on that day , in his office which is in his mind his world and not part of Italy 
I learnt this early on , I soon found out not to quete the regs or the law or common sence but keep smilling and take someone with you who is Italian and knows people no bribes just smiles


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## Shaka

*Sulmona area in Abruzzo*

Is there anyone that has relocated to Sulmona or the neighbouring area. I have been doing some research and it looks like a lovely area not somewhere I had focused on before. We are planning to retire to the Abruzzo/Le Marche area and have been to Northern Abrozzo but not as far as Sulmona. We are looking for good medical facilities,public transportation, good quality of life near a vibrant town with shops markets theater etc where we can integrate into Italian life. Appreciate anyones imput.
Thanks


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## onlymetoo

BBCWatcher said:


> The Italian consulate in Houston helpfully snip... of crappy insurance providers. (Click on the English button at the top right of the page if the page comes up mostly empty.) And it turns out the visa-compliant insurance can be crappier than I thought since they say a 30,000 euro limit is sufficient.
> 
> This is what Houston thinks. There might be slight variations at other consulates, so ask when the time comes. (Only ask about visa-compliant insurance. Don't ask about what you're going to do in Italy -- that's beyond scope for the consulate. Keep it simple.) In Australia, Medicare and its 6 months of coverage in Italy is in your favor, and presumably Italian consulates in Australia would know how that works. (Bring your Medicare cards.) So presumably you could get 6 months of crappy insurance coverage that starts immediately after your 6 months of Medicare runs out, preferably with the ability to cancel that insurance for a full or near-full refund after you arrive in Italy and before it goes into effect (so that you can enroll in ASL in Italy).
> 
> On edit: If you don't like Houston's list, just use your favorite Internet search engine to find "Schengen visa medical insurance" and you should get some hits. The central point, though, is that satisfying the visa requirement requires only Schengen-compliant minimum (crappy) coverage, in your case for 12+ months total (since you're applying for ER visas). You wouldn't actually want to live with such insurance (unless you're broke), and once you get into Italy you wouldn't.



Hi BBCWatcher,
Me too, every night at 6:00 pm EST (BBC News). 
I'm curious as to the basis for your obvious in depth and extensive knowledge regarding Italian relocation related issues for potential American expats. Your profile indicates you are an American expat, but in Singapore. Where did the Italian SME come from? I'm another American citizen interested in possible relo to Abbruzo for retirement and am finding your posts most helpful and intriguing.
--
OM2


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## FlowerFairy5457

*Hunting in Abruzzo*

Sorry folks, not sure if I am putting this new question in the correct spot. We are, in effect, pescatarians (if that is the right spelling!) and are very much against the hunting of animals. It appears the hunting lobby is a major force in Italy and I was wondering how Abruzzo fits in. I would hate to end up in a place where hunters materialise from September to January/February each year. That would be my worst nightmare! Obviously Tuscany, Umbria and Sardinia appear to be the worst areas for this. Many thanks for any info people are able to provide.


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## NickZ

Hunting is wide spread in Italy. The only difference you might see is in the start/stop dates. The hunters and their dogs are common sights in the countryside. You won't see them in the cities.

There are virtually no natural predators left outside of man.


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## pudd 2

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> Sorry folks, not sure if I am putting this new question in the correct spot. We are, in effect, pescatarians (if that is the right spelling!) and are very much against the hunting of animals. It appears the hunting lobby is a major force in Italy and I was wondering how Abruzzo fits in. I would hate to end up in a place where hunters materialise from September to January/February each year. That would be my worst nightmare! Obviously Tuscany, Umbria and Sardinia appear to be the worst areas for this. Many thanks for any info people are able to provide.


if you don't like hunting Italy is the wrong place for you they even shoot themselves normely 50 or so a year 
But hang on a moment you could buy in the national park of Abruzzo as I have done pretoro there is no shooting allowed in the park and its large with maney villages .so don't write of abruzzo google the abruzzo nat park its run by pan parks 
Pretoro rapino fara filoriom petre are all in the park so google them as well , we have bears wolves egles dear and all sorts of animals good luck


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## FlowerFairy5457

Thanks folks
I am sitting here devastated. After all the months and months of investigations re buying, health cover, driving licence, etc etc, we are in the process of applying to renew our British Passports (have Australian ones) as it appears easier to buy property, reside etc as British Citizens rather than have to go through the Elective Residence Visa (which we can do but more red tape), have even started learning Italian.....the hunting issue was percolating at the back of my mind but I was so busy sorting out the logistics of moving to Italy I ignored it. I will certainly follow through on the possibility of buying in or near the national park (I prefer bears and wolves for neighbours rather than hunters). I had started thinking of the Chieti area, not sure how that fits in but I will investigate. All the beauty of the Italian way of life to be marred with such barbarity! Have even been in contact with people with property to sell. To say I am devastated is an understatement.


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## BBCWatcher

There's no (animal) hunting in urban areas that I've observed. If animals don't go there, hunters don't follow.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Thanks BBCWatcher, I appreciate the sentiment but I am hoping not to live in a suburb. As I am of course 'ignorant' of real life in Italy and as I assume we would be choosing say a place like Introdacqua I am unsure if one would be affected by hunters and their barbaric pastime in that kind of village/town. We had in fact moved our search across to Tuscany/Umbria (in particular Bagni di Lucca and/or Barga) but I think from what little I can gather, that would not be the place for us - though I could be wrong. Being 99% vegetarian we need a region where the food is more the classic Mediterranean rather than 99% carnivore.


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## pudd 2

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> Thanks folks
> I am sitting here devastated. After all the months and months of investigations re buying, health cover, driving licence, etc etc, we are in the process of applying to renew our British Passports (have Australian ones) as it appears easier to buy property, reside etc as British Citizens rather than have to go through the Elective Residence Visa (which we can do but more red tape), have even started learning Italian.....the hunting issue was percolating at the back of my mind but I was so busy sorting out the logistics of moving to Italy I ignored it. I will certainly follow through on the possibility of buying in or near the national park (I prefer bears and wolves for neighbours rather than hunters). I had started thinking of the Chieti area, not sure how that fits in but I will investigate. All the beauty of the Italian way of life to be marred with such barbarity! Have even been in contact with people with property to sell. To say I am devastated is an understatement.


Yes def keep your british passport and driving licence as it is a peace of cake to change an English licence to an Italian one , without a driving test as they are done in Italian and involve lots of righting 
and also with an English passport you can be aresident and buy houses and cars very easy and its easy to get residence , if you have a british passport worth its weight in gold 
as for the Chieti region that's wrere I live but chieti is the largest region in abruzzo and you need to be near the town of chieti as we are and the national park is obove cheiti town as we are 25 mins away and no hunting if you need more specivic details ill send you my email address we have been living in Pretoro 11 years and know our way about some


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## NickZ

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> Thanks BBCWatcher, I appreciate the sentiment but I am hoping not to live in a suburb. As I am of course 'ignorant' of real life in Italy and as I assume we would be choosing say a place like Introdacqua I am unsure if one would be affected by hunters and their barbaric pastime in that kind of village/town. We had in fact moved our search across to Tuscany/Umbria (in particular Bagni di Lucca and/or Barga) but I think from what little I can gather, that would not be the place for us - though I could be wrong. Being 99% vegetarian we need a region where the food is more the classic Mediterranean rather than 99% carnivore.



Depends on what you mean by rural/urban. In most small towns the hunting won't be that far from the homes. Around here it's not unusual to hear the dogs and shooting when out for a walk.

The other thing. This time of year of course it's roast lamb time. Many towns will have festa cinghiale (wild boar festival). Come autumn many of your neighbours will slaughter a hog to make various products. Most people living in the countryside keep chickens and rabbits at least. Some keep turkeys and even geese.


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## BBCWatcher

I used the word urban, not suburb.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Yes, I know but 'urban' usually means higher density populated areas so a 'suburb' can fit in as word usage. But I do know what you mean and appreciate the time you take to comment.


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## FlowerFairy5457

Thanks for all you info. Cheers


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