# Visa 189 get refusal (All family in tears) please help



## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

Visa 189 get refusal (All family in tears) please help 

I am writing on behalf of my friend(National of Iraq) who got visa 189 refusal today ,who is working a in IRAQ 

He applied on June 2012 under visa subclass 175 and he supplied all required document .On October , CO asked for tax document to verify the 8 years employment which is all in one company .He went to company HR and they told him that the tax are paid by company directly to the tax authority .
He tried to get a letter from the Tax Authority in Iraq but they said they deal with companies only not with individuals ,therefore, he was not having another option just to provide another letter from HR indicting that he is paying tax with percentage deduction plus salary sheets .

On January 2013 ,the CO send email to him telling him that the number provided on HR reference letter ,is not for the company and they warned him if this is a fraud and gave him opportunity to comment on that and provide additional document ,but the company number is correct and also I was able to reach it and confirmed it is belongs to the company ,however, my friend send CO self-declaration that confirm all what mentioned in the reference letter unless he will be subjected to all legal action if they are false plus some other document showing communication using his work email to prove he is really working in the company.

Today he receives refusal letter as mentioned below, please advise what I can advise him and if he can apply again considering this situation . He is in bad shape and I want to comfort him and give him pease of mind 


Refusal letter from CO

I have assessed your application and find that XXX do not meet the criteria for the grant of a Skilled (Migrant) (class VE) subclass Skilled -Independent (175).Applicants for a class or classes of visa must satisfy the requirements relating to that class asset out in the Migration Act 1958 (“the Act”) and Migration Regulations 1994 (“the Regulations”)collectively ‘migration law’ before a visa can be granted. When an applicant fails to meet any one of the criteria for the grant of the visa, the visa cannot be granted and the application must be refused. Under migration law, an application is made for a class of visa and your application must be considered against the criteria for all subclasses within that visa class.

Information considered
I am a delegated decision maker under Section 65 of the Migration Act 1958 (the Act). In reaching my decision, I have considered the following:
● relevant legislation contained in the Act and Migration Regulations (1994) (theRegulations) collectively “migration law”
● information contained in the department's Procedures Advice Manual 3
● documents and information provided by the applicant(s)
● other relevant information held on departmental files
● the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship's Direction No. 54 of 2012
● the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO)

Your nominated occupation is Telecommunications Engineer - ANZSCO 2633 -11

Reasons for decision
The visa class that you applied for includes two subclasses of visa. These are:Skilled (Migrant) (class VE)
● Skilled Independent (subclass 175)
I have considered your application against the criteria for all subclasses in the VE visa class.Under migration law a visa cannot be granted unless the applicant meets the legal requirements that are specified in the Act and the Regulations. After careful consideration of all the information you have provided, I am not satisfied that you satisfy the criteria for the grant of VE subclass 175 (Skilled - Independent) as set out in Australian migration law. Therefore, your application for this visa has been refused. Schedule 2 of the Migration Regulations 1994 sets out the criteria to be met for the grant of Skilled (Migrant) (class VE) subclass 175 (Skilled - Independent) visa.Regulation 175.211 is one of the mandatory requirements for the grant of the visa and it states: 

Reg 175.211
(1) If the applicant has nominated a skilled occupation which is specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this subclause, the applicant has been employed in the skilled occupation for at least 12 months in the period of 24 months ending immediately before the day on which the application was made.
(2) If the applicant has not nominated a skilled occupation as described in subclause (1):
(a) the applicant has been employed in a skilled occupation for at least 12 months in the period of 24 months ending immediately before the day on which the application was made; or
(b) the following requirements are met:
(i) the applicant satisfied the Australian study requirement in the period of 6 months ending immediately before the day on which the application was made;
(ii) each degree, diploma or trade qualification used to satisfy the skilled occupation is closely
related to the applicant’s nominated skilled occupation. Officers must assess whether the applicant has been employed at a skilled level in either • their nominated skilled occupation (or a closely-related skilled occupation) for a specific period;or • in a skilled occupation for a specific period (it does not have to be the same skilled occupation). You have not nominated a skilled occupation which is specified by the Minister in Regulation 175.211(1).

As your application was lodged on 10 June 2012, the relevant timeframe for meeting the legislative requirement of Reg. 175.211(2)(a) is between 10 June 2010 and 10 June 2012. Any work experience
prior to or after this period is irrelevant to our purposes. In the visa application form lodged on 6 June 2012 you stated that you were employed as a Telecommunications engineer with YYY from 20 March 2008 to 29 October 2012 and from 18 July 2003 to 15 January 2008. In support of your claims you provided two reference letters from YYY dated 27 April 2012 and 05 May 2012 which state that you were employed from18 July 2003, two administrative orders, an undated appreciation letter and three salary sheets dated March to July 2012. In order to verify your claims, DIAC officers contacted the company as per the details in your reference letters in December 2012. As a result of this contact, DIAC officers identified the following concerns: When Immigration officer contacted YYY company on the business phone number (+ZZZZZ) available/provided on your employment letter, the phone number was not for YYY. On 7 January 2013 this office wrote to you and provided you with the opportunity to comments on these findings and/or provide further documentation and/ or provide compelling or compassionate circumstances.

On 1 February 2013 this office received:
● A personal statement dated 10 January 2013
● An updated reference letter issued by the Human Resources Head of YYY dated 10 January 2013 (note: still showing the company 's business phone number as +ZZZZZ)

I have carefully reviewed the statements provided and examined all of the employment documents within the application relevant to the assessed applicant’s claimed employment with YYY for the relevant period of 10 June 2010 to 10 June 2012. I am not satisfied that sufficient verifiable documents have been provided to support your employment claims. The personal statement dated 10 January 2013 does not provide third party verifiable evidence of your employment in a skilled occupation. Serious concerns were raised in the process of this Department attempting to verify the claims made in your application. I am not satisfied that you have provided sufficient explanation/documents as to why the business phone number (+ZZZZ) was not for YYY when called. The updated reference letter dated 10 January 2013 still showed the same business phone number (+ZZZZZ) for YYYY.
Therefore, I am not satisfied that you have provided sufficient evidence that you have been employed as a Telecommunications engineer or any other skilled employment with YYY or any other employer during the relevant period of 10 June 2010 to 10 June 2012. Therefore I am not satisfied that you have supported your claims of employment in a skilled occupation and find that you do not meet clause 175.211(2)(a).


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## msvayani (Feb 14, 2012)

Sorry to hear this mate!

It is unfortunate that you were not been able to get tax documents despite paying all the taxes.

Didn't you provide Bank Statements to prove your claims?


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

msvayani said:


> Sorry to hear this mate!
> 
> It is unfortunate that you were not been able to get tax documents despite paying all the taxes.
> 
> Didn't you provide Bank Statements to prove your claims?


He is paid in cash and he has salary sheets for all period as well as reference letter. Whst surprise me , why all other documents are not enough to satisfy the CO. It seems the CO just want a reason to refuse visa so why Australia is asking for skill people to develop thier country ? Or there is kind of discrimination against other Nationallty , I dont know.

Please advise me how to complain about this CO to higher level as his reason of refusal are not convincing because this class of visa cant be appealed.


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Main problem or doubt is, stating in reason, u wrote wrong no.. in ref letter.. I guess


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## soeid (Oct 19, 2012)

It is obvious that he supplied wrong contact number of his employer. Upon background check they can't contact the employer making the decision that which your friend sent is fraudulent.

What he can do as per my knowledge is to appeal the decision. Try to contact first the number written on your referral letter. Probably it is HR's fault to give wrong number on the letterhead.


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Just assume..

in third party declaration from senior or collegue, if they dont give proper reply.. then our life is at risk,


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

The number in the reference letter is right but the CO is saying that it doesn't belong to the company according to visa office in neighbour country . He provided another number in the same letter for the Head of HR , CO still insisting using the same number in letter head which is correct as well .The question here, is it possible to decide the application on one phone call.
Please advise if he still can apply for vis 189 and if this refusl will block him to apply again or will cause him problem and get rejected again.

Any suggestions if he can complain about CO decision to higher authority


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

it cant be complained against DIAC. not possible..

u simply need to resubmit application again....U mean u got a call not from Aus, but local embassy??


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

Dear Goran, thanks for your reply. I confirm to you the number is correct as I called it from another country and it was valid.
The other issue , this kind of visa cant be appealed as you can see in his refusal letter that there is no review right which means CO can do whatever he wants


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

Dear Jayptl, thanks for your reply,do you mean even with this refusal , he still can apply again .How this refusal will affect the new application
As for the call.The call was established from the embassy in neighbouring country as there is no australian embassy in iraq.


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## v_yadav (May 21, 2012)

I have no advise for you my frient, just a "Best of Luck for future". This is really sad to be refused a visa which could have been life changing on such grounds.

All the best for your future and reapply with extra caution.


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

u can apply, unless it is mentioned in refusal letter, THERE IS BAN OF AUS MIN 3 YR'..

if u supply any fraduaent documents or fake certi..then u can apply after 3 yr..


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

@v yadav. Thanks for your sympathy . Pease advise if still can re apply after this refusal and what are the cautious need to be taken


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

There is nothing mentioed about ban in the refusal letter. Can he submit EOI now and what is the best sloution to avoid that CO saying that the phone number is not belongs to the company ( which is really correct) , what are the alternative to mske CO satisfied


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## v_yadav (May 21, 2012)

WailKasha said:


> There is nothing mentioed about ban in the refusal letter. Can he submit EOI now and what is the best sloution to avoid that CO saying that the phone number is not belongs to the company ( which is really correct) , what are the alternative to mske CO satisfied



Being a telecom engineer myself , i have a question did he supply the phone number in correct format to the CO, for example the correct format will be +(Country Code) and then phone number for Iraq i believe it is +964xxxxxxxxxx. I know 99.99% chances are he gave them correct number as he is a telecom guy but what i am thinking is if you are able to get through why was the CO not able to get through.


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

The number is in correct format.The CO mentioned that the number was called and they spoke with someone who said that ,this not the company they are asking about ,it something else, but this is not true as I called the number and the number is valid and belongs to that company.
What makes me confused,how can be a decision like this could be taken and the future of family relay on it with only one phone call without trying another time as they might dial the number wrongly,why they didn't use email,or website which mention the same number in letter head. As well as why they didnt use the number which was in the letter body that belongs to head of HR of that company


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## ahmed84 (Apr 3, 2013)

I feel sorry for your friend. But it is happened already and this is Allah swt plan so maybe it is for the best. If he is not banned from re-applying (which seems to be the case) let him apply as soon as possible. The good thing the process now is much faster than before and more simplified. For the next time, I think as an alternative he can give the mobile phone number of the HR person. DIAC recommends attaching the business card of the person who wrote the reference letter.

But the phone number issue is really suspicious. Could this be an intentional attempt to jeopardize your friend chances by someone in his company or the local visa office?


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## soeid (Oct 19, 2012)

ahmed84 said:


> But the phone number issue is really suspicious. Could this be an intentional attempt to jeopardize your friend chances by someone in his company or the local visa office?


I am also thinking the same. Probably there is some conspiracy by the employer against your friend. 

Every applicant I believe are entitled for an appeal. Why don't your friend log in to the company website if there is. Show it to the case officer to contact and connect to the department.


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks Ahmed for the reply. I believe that the local visa office has done something to jeopardize his chances as there is no other logical explanation for that, moreover , he provided another letter with the mobile number of Company HR head but it seems,it was not checked .

However ,I asked to submit EOI by tomorrow


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

Dear Ahmed,thanks for the reply.I agree with you that it is a jeopardize from the local embassy office as I don't believe it is from someone in the company . Moreover , he already indicted another number(Mobile) belongs to Company HR Head but it seems they didn't check it.
It is unfair,that he cant appeal in this visa subclass


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

u worked by cash on hand??


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## VVV (Nov 5, 2012)

What about appealing? Just consider that....However, as far as I know it takes a bit of time, about a year. If reapplying is faster, then maybe your friend can do that, and prove that all his previous claims were genuine! In this case, I would suggest to consult a professional migration agent...who might be able to advise on how to go about this. If his case is genuine, then at the end, it should work out! Hope everything works out fine....and all the very best!


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

@vvv, offshore visa cant be appealed ,this is the problem .The fate of offshore visa applicants is between CO hands and you cant do nothing if he is wrong .Completely unfair


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

thanks


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## VVV (Nov 5, 2012)

WailKasha said:


> @vvv, offshore visa cant be appealed ,this is the problem .The fate of offshore visa applicants is between CO hands and you cant do nothing if he is wrong .Completely unfair


Really? but i know someone from Sri Lanka who appealed....his case was a point calculation issue with regard to work experience...not sure if the appeal was successful or not...but i know he had to wait for a long time for the hearing...but isn't that offshore too? he applied in 2011 i think...


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Wen I was in Aus, I got refusal of my TR.....due to just smal friction of mistake of supplying docs, and CO instantly refused my apps without asking further docs..


CO just follow structure of norms by immigration....they cant take decision outside of it..


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

WailKasha said:


> @vvv, offshore visa cant be appealed ,this is the problem .The fate of offshore visa applicants is between CO hands and you cant do nothing if he is wrong .Completely unfair


 How is it unfair to stop visa fraud which effects many other applicants with extremely lengthy and intrusive security checks? 

If everything is genuine you'll get your visa in the end.


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## WailKasha (Apr 9, 2013)

_shel said:


> How is it unfair to stop visa fraud which effects many other applicants with extremely lengthy and intrusive security checks?
> 
> If everything is genuine you'll get your visa in the end.


It is unfair because it is not a fraud case and the applicant should have the chance to show that the CO is wrong. 
Why the appeal is only applied to people who is on onshore application why other are not allowed to appeal ? Can you answer that , is it fair?


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## piri (Aug 11, 2012)

propably your friend's employment is real and all he tried was genuin. it is possible when embassy or diac calls the company, they do not ask over the phone "is this company yyy?" but they might use some other clever way to make sure that a fraudulent number is not given. if i would check on anyone i would not check by calling any mobile numbers by the way.

unfortunate that he cannot get any tax records out, perhaps things in Iraq are a bit more difficult. any way to negotiate with the officials? any customers of company yyy can confirm the employment? 

i would use any means possible to gather more clear and strong evidence of the employnent and would apply again. 189 is faster than 175 anyway.

it is pointless to second guess where the problems may lie, such as Kuwaiti Aussie official calling with bad mood to yyy company to check the employment, but to gather the strong evidence, even photos from the work place or video confirmation with the HR or CEO to the future application. everything does not rely on one missed phone call, trust me, there is something else shaky in the application which catched CO's attention.


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