# Payslip requirement for job application



## DutchExpat

Hi All,

I am from the Netherlands and was recently offered a job interview with a Singapore company. Prior to the interview, I was told to provide payslip from my past employer and a copy of my passport. May I ask if this is a common practice for the local firm to request for such private information? What if I refuse to disclose my past salary and passport number ? 

Please feel free to offer advise and comment on my situation above. Thanks !


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## simonsays

DutchExpat said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am from the Netherlands and was recently offered a job interview with a Singapore company. Prior to the interview, I was told to provide payslip from my past employer and a copy of my passport. May I ask if this is a common practice for the local firm to request for such private information? What if I refuse to disclose my past salary and passport number ?
> 
> Please feel free to offer advise and comment on my situation above. Thanks !


It is common to ask for pay slip though I world debate the ethics of it

It's ok as long as you have negotiated the pay, as, some employers tend to start negotiating based on your current pay, in such cases I will refuse to give my pay slip, as I want to be paid for my worth, not a plus x% over my current pay, though that practice of x% over current pay still greatly prevails among small employers 

Passport, well how can they apply for your work pass without it ? That's pretty normal to ask, and it also helps employers to check if you worked in Singapore before.


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## beppi

It is common practice to ask for these things.
You can refuse, but risk not getting the job then - so it depends on how desperate you are.

HR personnel in Singapore tend to be somewhat dumb.
I once asked an HR lady why they need to see my past payslips and she replied (with a completely innocent face) "Because otherwise we cannot figure out how much to pay you!" My subsequent explanation that I want to be offered a pay reflecting my worth to this company, not any previous one, was met with a blank stare of incomprehension.
I did not get the job.


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## DutchExpat

beppi said:


> It is common practice to ask for these things.
> You can refuse, but risk not getting the job then - so it depends on how desperate you are.
> 
> HR personnel in Singapore tend to be somewhat dumb.
> I once asked an HR lady why they need to see my past payslips and she replied (with a completely innocent face) "Because otherwise we cannot figure out how much to pay you!" My subsequent explanation that I want to be offered a pay reflecting my worth to this company, not any previous one, was met with a blank stare of incomprehension.
> I did not get the job.


Thank you for sharing your interesting experience. I totally agree with you on a pay that reflects our worth. Prior to posting this thread, I was already planning to provide similar explanation like yours. I guess they will not be hiring me then.  I value my privacy more than anything else.


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## DutchExpat

simonsays said:


> It is common to ask for pay slip though I world debate the ethics of it
> 
> It's ok as long as you have negotiated the pay, as, some employers tend to start negotiating based on your current pay, in such cases I will refuse to give my pay slip, as I want to be paid for my worth, not a plus x% over my current pay, though that practice of x% over current pay still greatly prevails among small employers
> 
> Passport, well how can they apply for your work pass without it ? That's pretty normal to ask, and it also helps employers to check if you worked in Singapore before.


Hi Simon,
Thanks for your comment. I feel the same as well that asking for past payslip is unethical and I personally think its an intrusion of privacy. 

As for revealing of passport or FIN numbers etc, my concern is that the potential company might abuse the information for their benefits. I don't know what kind of information ( do you know any?) can be retrieve from those security numbers, but I feel that this is too much to disclosure for a job application.


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## simonsays

beppi said:


> HR personnel in Singapore tend to be somewhat dumb.
> I once asked an HR lady why they need to see my past payslips and she replied (with a completely innocent face) "Because otherwise we cannot figure out how much to pay you!" My subsequent explanation that I want to be offered a pay reflecting my worth to this company, not any previous one, was met with a blank stare of incomprehension.
> I did not get the job.


I wouldn't use the word dumb, but more like, out of touch with the rest of the world

And such exists in small companies, larger companies send staff for HR best practices training, have salary bands for job grades etc.

PS, I too had a similiar situation. I applied for a job, refused to give my past pay slip, negotiated say X $ salary

When I went to sign the acceptance, I had to give the pay slip, and then the HR manager said my new salary is too high, based on past .. and tried to add a 10% over past pay - though my past pay had annual bonus, performance bonus and all which worked out higher than the new offer.

I nicely told her I am not signing on. She then tried a new approach, saying the pay will be adjusted after confirmation .. 

The HR manager kept calling me for more than a month plus, but as a matter of principle, I refused the offer. 

That's how it goes for small companies

In a humourous way, when an overseas friend applied for a job, was offered X $ salary, that HR insisted that they need the pay slip. 

She sent the pay slip and HR tried to renegotiate, till my friend sent the annual Income tax return for the previous years, where the pay she was drawing with allowances and consulting turned out to be nearly twice of what she was accepting in Singapore. 

Silence from HR, and to rub it in, I called the HR manager and asked the HR manager if they will double the pay, since they have seen her total annual pay. I could just imagine the HR manager being wordless, and without any question my friend got the initially offered pay. No 'negotiations' after that.

My friend actually took up the job in Singapore because she wanted to be in SG for studying part time, so the pay cut she was taking it was worth it, in a way.


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## simonsays

DutchExpat said:


> Hi Simon,
> Thanks for your comment. I feel the same as well that asking for past payslip is unethical and I personally think its an intrusion of privacy.


Well, this is Singapore, and small HRs simply follow instructions and one of them will be 'get a copy of candidate's current pay slip'

Your call anyway. If you are in demand, you can insist you will not give it.



DutchExpat said:


> As for revealing of passport or FIN numbers etc, my concern is that the potential company might abuse the information for their benefits. I don't know what kind of information ( do you know any?) can be retrieve from those security numbers, but I feel that this is too much to disclosure for a job application.


Well, In Singapore, there is strict Personal Data Privacy laws, and the only reason HR wants is to check with Immigration is you have any past issues. While you can swear otherwise, they are just doing their job.

Heck in Singapore, even if you want to enter for a lucky draw, asking your IC/Passport number is very normal

There is next to no abuse of such information, and the law enforcement is extremely swift and justice is painful for offenders, and that's one reason people here have no qualms giving passport / IC no.


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## beppi

DutchExpat said:


> I value my privacy more than anything else.


Then DO NOT move to Asia, ever!
There exist no data protection or privacy laws of remotely the same standards as in Europe. Singapore is ahead of most other Asian countries in this, but still all your information will be stored in a central government database and is visible to all public servants at the click of a mouse, for almost any reason they want.
Given this, there is surprisingly little abuse - or maybe you just don't hear about it? (All mass media is 100% government-owned and toes the line.)


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## simonsays

DutchExpat said:


> ..


Data privacy ?

See what is being asked in the first page  

https://register.marathonsingapore.com/webroot/scms15-vms/

And, for your info, as beppi said, the government and related agencies share information

Example, when you go to meet your area MP or Minister, they will ask your IC. Note that the meet the people session is not a government initiative, but an initiative of the area MPs to assist the people - 

Once you give your IC No, the counter staff will print out your address, date of birth, past applications and what not-

In Singapore, in God and Government, people trust.

But, step across the causeway to Malaysia or Indonesia or other countries, revealing your passport or IC No will mean your identity will be duped very fast. Not in Singapore.


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## Asian Spirit

simonsays said:


> In Singapore, in God and Government, people trust.


Ya know, when I read this I had to stop and look at what page I was on. For a minute I thought I was reading the USA page where someone made reference to Obama---:scared::becky:...


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## simonsays

Jet Lag said:


> Ya know, when I read this I had to stop and look at what page I was on. For a minute I thought I was reading the USA page where someone made reference to Obama---:scared::becky:...


Actually there are lot of jokes in Singapore, that without the Government telling them what to do, Singaporeans will be lost.

And nobody dares to question the Government here, because, so far, the Government has been doing the right thing, and ensuring Singapore stays at the top in terms of Efficiency, low corruption and such.

And .. back to personal data privacy, there was a doctor who looked up a patient record, the patient being his ex-GF, and she was not under the doctor's care at the time. The doctor was censured, and fined. That's how closely data privacy is managed. And I am talking about a doctor in a Government hospital, and this was like 10 years ago. I am sure things have become tighter ever since.










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## DutchExpat

@ Simonsays: 

How about asking an applicant's race, skin colour and family background during the job interview? Are these questions considered legal in Singapore? 

I have never feel so much discrimination in my life until I arrived here.


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## simonsays

DutchExpat said:


> @ Simonsays:
> 
> How about asking an applicant's race, skin colour and family background during the job interview? Are these questions considered legal in Singapore?
> 
> I have never feel so much discrimination in my life until I arrived here.


Well Race is sort of standard, even for volunteering, or running marathon ..  

Skin color and family ? nope, that's not normal here

Why is race so standard ? because of the various quotas etc, from PR to Public housing, to schools .. 

And the standard response you get when you challenge, for example, a volunteer organisation why they need my race ? it is so that they can match me with the right beneficiaries, who can understand my language/requirements etc. 

PS, you feel discriminated just because of the above question ? oh .. jeez

You haven't lived in Singapore long enough I guess

For that matter, am I right to say you haven't been in Asia ?

In other Asian countries, foreigners get charged twice or 10 times, get singled out when there are scams, and more often than not, Foreigners are target of regular street robbery, while the natives rarely are touched.

Not gonna go into how foreigners too get bumped off., literally, and there are no laws to protect foreigners

A native kills a foreigner, nothing happens. A foreigner slaps a local with valid reason, foreigner faces jail sentance and mandatory deportation.

And Yes, insulting a local or throwing tantrum can see you deported, and banned for life, even if the local is working for you and is having performance issues - you gotta keep quite, or you gonna be sent packing.

And there are enough cases of foreigners who had their investment and property stolen, through fabricated accusations.

Singapore is paradise, in comparison. There is no favoritism for locals vs foreigners.


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## Asian Spirit

simonsays said:


> Actually there are lot of jokes in Singapore, that without the Government telling them what to do, Singaporeans will be lost.
> 
> And nobody dares to question the Government here, because, so far, the Government has been doing the right thing, and ensuring Singapore stays at the top in terms of Efficiency, low corruption and such.
> 
> And .. back to personal data privacy, there was a doctor who looked up a patient record, the patient being his ex-GF, and she was not under the doctor's care at the time. The doctor was censured, and fined. That's how closely data privacy is managed. And I am talking about a doctor in a Government hospital, and this was like 10 years ago. I am sure things have become tighter ever since.
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Yea I've heard the laws over there are pretty stiff and really enforced. Makes life restrictive compared to say here in the Philippines where not much of anything matter. But on the other hand, those laws keep you place clean, healthy, and looking good for everyone. This country (the Philippines) could truly take lessons.


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## DutchExpat

beppi said:


> Then DO NOT move to Asia, ever!
> There exist no data protection or privacy laws of remotely the same standards as in Europe. Singapore is ahead of most other Asian countries in this, but still all your information will be stored in a central government database and is visible to all public servants at the click of a mouse, for almost any reason they want.
> Given this, there is surprisingly little abuse - or maybe you just don't hear about it? (All mass media is 100% government-owned and toes the line.)


--

On the job application form, it stated that the potential employer would conduct reference checks with the current company. This seems like a joke to me. 

For certain, I won't be signing the form knowing that they might jeopardize my current employment. 

Singapore's hiring procedures are very unusual and unethical.


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## Asian Spirit

DutchExpat said:


> --
> 
> On the job application form, it stated that the potential employer would conduct reference checks with the current company. This seems like a joke to me.
> 
> For certain, I won't be signing the form knowing that they might jeopardize my current employment.
> 
> Singapore's hiring procedures are very unusual and unethical.


That's pretty much standard in many places. An exception is in the States. There they must as your consent to contact your current employer. Remember, every country is different. They do not need to change what is normal for your benefit. We are the "visitor" in these countries we choose to live in--nothing more.


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## simonsays

DutchExpat said:


> --
> 
> On the job application form, it stated that the potential employer would conduct reference checks with the current company. This seems like a joke to me.
> 
> For certain, I won't be signing the form knowing that they might jeopardize my current employment.
> 
> Singapore's hiring procedures are very unusual and unethical.


You are seriously welcome not to come here.

As for background checks, blame the foreigners who have been fabricating credentials and work experience, and being a strict country, the government in turn punishes the employer who doesn't vet the candidate. including being barred from employing foreigners for periods of upto 2 years, would you survive if your business suffered that fate ?

And in turn, the locals have been complaining of being deprived of jobs, stolen by some individuals who boosted their past experience and certifications.

and am I right to say that part of your decision is the higher pay ? 

Take regional countries, in retrospect. A Malaysian earing 200$ doing dish washing, comes to Singapore and can earn upwards of 1000$.

A Filipino IT Engineer, back home earns 400$ a month, comes here and earns 4,000 $ and above. So you can see the attraction.

Even a nurse, being unemployed in Myanmar or earning less than 200 $ a month, comes here and starts with a 2000 $ salary.

your background check will be limited to verifying with your previous employer, but unless you are in medical line (doctor and such) or joining a government organisation, such verifications are extremely rare. Most likely not gonna happen.

You can always tell the employer that you don't want them to check with your previous employers, I have not heard of an employer who insisted otherwise, especially if you come from a reputed country, with next to no known fake stuff.

And checking of past credentials, again, depends on which country you are from. 

Generally Asian countries are scrutinised closely, and again, the Ministry of Manpower will penalise the employer for submitting fake/invalid credentials, for the work pass

Don't blame the employers, unless you are in their shoes.

Again, I doubt anybody forced you to come here. You can stay wherever you are, if you find Singapore is unethical and is a Joke.


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## simonsays

Jet Lag said:


> Yea I've heard the laws over there are pretty stiff and really enforced. Makes life restrictive compared to say here in the Philippines where not much of anything matter. But on the other hand, those laws keep you place clean, healthy, and looking good for everyone. This country (the Philippines) could truly take lessons.


And on the plus side, since you mentioned Philippines, you can see filipinos eating out while their hand bags, mobile phones etc are all left on the table, and rarely a robbery happens and if that happens, the thief gets caught swiftly and painfully caned promptly as well.

And it is very comical, to see Filipinos especially, who are terrified of using smart phones in public transport back home, come to Singapore and use smart phones, even leave their bags unzipped when travelling in bus and train, and, often will leave their stuff unattended while buying food and such.

And you can see drunk women stumbling out of the bars at 3 AM and without a fear taking a taxi home alone- I guess that's a measure of how safe the country is. And how painful and prompt the punishment is, to deter all but only the hardened to even try

And drunk guys sometimes stumble out of pubs, crash on the floor and sleep, nobody will relieve their personal belongings. 

Not going to start talking about the strict anti drug laws in place


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## Asian Spirit

simonsays said:


> And on the plus side, since you mentioned Philippines, you can see filipinos eating out while their hand bags, mobile phones etc are all left on the table, and rarely a robbery happens and if that happens, the thief gets caught swiftly and painfully caned promptly as well.
> 
> And it is very comical, to see Filipinos especially, who are terrified of using smart phones in public transport back home, come to Singapore and use smart phones, even leave their bags unzipped when travelling in bus and train, and, often will leave their stuff unattended while buying food and such.
> 
> And you can see drunk women stumbling out of the bars at 3 AM and without a fear taking a taxi home alone- I guess that's a measure of how safe the country is. And how painful and prompt the punishment is, to deter all but only the hardened to even try
> 
> And drunk guys sometimes stumble out of pubs, crash on the floor and sleep, nobody will relieve their personal belongings.
> 
> Not going to start talking about the strict anti drug laws in place


I like living in the Philippines for many reasons but like Singapore, I miss a more advanced society and where laws are enforced. 
I remember several places I lived back in the States where car keys stayed in the car-at home or at the store. I even rented a house in Southern Utah years ago and never did have a house key,,,, there were no locks on the doors.
Here, people will take anything they can get their hands on and figure out what it is or if they can sell it later. Drastic differences for sure.


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## simonsays

Jet Lag said:


> Here, people will take anything they can get their hands on and figure out what it is or if they can sell it later. Drastic differences for sure.


Example   

Fishermen remove Chinese-marked buoys off Zambales










Those things are worth thousands of $ is sold to the right buyer, but most likely will end up being sold for scrap.

They just saw it, and decided to drag it back. I just hope the next time they try it, the owner doesn't turn up in a gun boat and sink the fishermen (China has intentionally rammed Vietnamese fishing vessels, and sunk a few too)

And the fishermen claim they must be allowed to sell it, since they spent more than 2 days towing it back to the Port


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## Asian Spirit

simonsays said:


> Example
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> Fishermen remove Chinese-marked buoys off Zambales
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> Those things are worth thousands of $ is sold to the right buyer, but most likely will end up being sold for scrap.
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> They just saw it, and decided to drag it back. I just hope the next time they try it, the owner doesn't turn up in a gun boat and sink the fishermen (China has intentionally rammed Vietnamese fishing vessels, and sunk a few too)
> 
> And the fishermen claim they must be allowed to sell it, since they spent more than 2 days towing it back to the Port


This one, the one in the photo was in international waters. As such it was subject to salvage rights but I think a order or permit must be issued first.
The one that was towed into the beach a week or two ago was less that 12 miles out and was fair game to be taken as it was within the Philippines.
I would have to side with the Philippines on these items although the one in the photo would be questionable.
Either way though, you're right. A Chinese gun boat would make short work of the fishermen's boats.
At the same time I cant help wondering why China would be so careless with these things and just let them drift away..


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## BBCWatcher

DutchExpat said:


> How about asking an applicant's race, skin colour and family background during the job interview? Are these questions considered legal in Singapore?


They're not considered ethical (at all), but they are not illegal.


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## simonsays

Jet Lag said:


> At the same time I cant help wondering why China would be so careless with these things and just let them drift away..


Salvage rights ? I doubt those in the area play by the book, including Filipinos, who were laughing their heart out when they gunned down the Taiwanese Fisherman .. !!

My 2 cents says, somebody lost the tow, filed a claim and got the money. Considering the size, it only could have be a lost tow.

BBCWatcher: +1

And Yep, the system works for Singapore, protesting the system won't win friends


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