# Spain versus Gibraltar for Retirement thread



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Well we might as well complete the picture by starting a Spain versus Gibraltar thread for our price comparison
and ideal Des Res for retirement threads.

So what does Gib have to offer the average British Expat over Spain, well loads of plus points according to the
Expats for Brexit. Listed according to Brexiteer satisfaction points - you have:

1. The Union Jack flying over the Rock of Gibraltar - this always scores top Brexit marks, as it brings a lump to
the throat of every British Expat who arrives on the Rock and at the same time infuriates the Spanish authorities
at La Linea, Algeciras & Madrid.

2. Gibraltar has it's own International airport - so ( hopefully ) you will never have to step on foreign soil to get
there by flying.

3. All the sunshine and heat of the Med while ensconced on your little corner of England in southern Spain.

4. Inhabited by die hard British Gibraltarian's who sing 'Land of Hope and Glory, Rule Britannia and God save the
Queen' at the slightest opportunity and in particular when the Royal navy patrol boats faces off against the
Guardia Civil, in yet another infringement of Gib waters.

5. All those idiosyncratic reminders of home, like the presence of British bobbies on the beat,
the old red GPO telephone boxes and Royal mail post boxes, dotted about at intervals along the streets.

6. All your favourite British department stores, shops and banks are catered for the discerning British
retiree in need of consant reminders of home.

7. A regular port of call and major dockyard for the British Royal Navy operating in the Med. 
Has to be the Icing On The Cake for any retiring Brexit Expat, harking back to the days when Britannia
ruled the waves. Yes this could add 'the Nelson touch' to many years of happy and blissful retirement
for the average British Brexiteer on the Med.

8. I could go on but you get the picture.

*So what does Spain have to offer the Brexit retiree ?*

Not a lot, as unfortunately it's foreign and they mostly speak Spanish !!!


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## Mushu7 (Jul 17, 2015)

I doubt many retired could afford Gib rents. Its EXPENSIVE!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Mushu7 said:


> I doubt many retired could afford Gib rents. Its EXPENSIVE!


Never mind the Expense - it's the Flag that counts !!!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

...but the Gibraltarians voted overwhelmingly to remain which in the eyes of Brexiteers makes them traitors.

Also, at the very moment of Brexit Spain will simultaneously invade and close the border so probably best avoided.

And, as already said, property there is very expensive however that might change with Brexit. I personally know of a family that is moving out (to Australia) as a result of the vote and a friend who has business links there tells me that there is a mini commercial property boom in Malta as Gibraltarian companies acquire space there as a precursor to possible relocation.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

jimenato said:


> ...but the Gibraltarians voted overwhelmingly to remain which in the eyes of Brexiteers makes them traitors.
> 
> Also, at the very moment of Brexit Spain will simultaneously invade and close the border so probably best avoided.
> 
> And, as already said, property there is very expensive however that might change with Brexit. I personally know of a family that is moving out (to Australia) as a result of the vote and a friend who has business links there tells me that there is a mini commercial property boom in Malta as Gibraltarian companies acquire space there as a precursor to possible relocation.


I'm sure the Brexiteers who always look into the future through 'rose tinted glasses' would overlook the fact that they voted to remain and besides they could look upon themselves as missionaries from the days of Empire, sent out to preach the benefits of a Brexit Britain to our far flung colonies. Just like the lady from Worthing tries to do every day on the Brexit thread.
As for Gib being on the verge of invasion from Spain - well that's manna from heaven for those fanatically patriotic
Brexiteers, who never tire of recalling those days when, 'against all odds' Britain standing alone with her back against
the wall, like the evacuation of Dunkirk, the Battle of Britain and the Invasion of the Falkland Islands; she overcomes
all odds to triumph in the end.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Williams, how many Brexit bashing/Brit bashing threads do you intend to start not just the same ole but you have transferred your put down comments about another poster from the Brexit thread!

You clearly know very little about Gibraltar. Most citizens are Llanitos, have their own language and have lived there for generations. You would probably see more Gibraltar flags than the Union flag. There are also a significant number of Maltese, Jewish, Morroccan and Indian citizens.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Williams, how many Brexit bashing/Brit bashing threads do you intend to start not just the same ole but you have transferred your put down comments about another poster from the Brexit thread!
> 
> You clearly know very little about Gibraltar. Most citizens are Llanitos, have their own language and have lived there for generations. You would probably see more Gibraltar flags than the Union flag. There are also a significant number of Maltese, Jewish, Morroccan and Indian citizens.


Why did you include Jewish with Maltese, Moroccan and Indian citizens? Being Jewish isn't a nationality, i's a religion.

I visited Gibraltar a day after the British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw I think it was, had paid a visit. The place was a sea of Union Jacks. They were everywhere. I'd never seen anything like it in my life, never want to again, tbh. It was a bit like those 'spontaneous' demonstrations the Socialists put on in pre-1989 Czechoslovakia, when people were given the day off and told to line the streets and wave flags to welcome the President of Bulgaria or some other such 'fraternal' socialist state.

I dislike Gibraltar intensely. It seems to me to have combined the least desirable aspects of Spain and the UK. It's overcrowded, not very aesthetic architecturally, there are loads of tacky shops and although there must be good restaurants most seem to serve warm beer and those odd fish-shaped pieces of breaded frozen fish and chips. It's also a centre for the gaming industry and I detest gambling which is about the only vice I don't practise.

Some very rich people apparently have an address in Gibraltar to benefit from the tax regime but prefer to live in Spain. Wise choice.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Why did you include Jewish with Maltese, Moroccan and Indian citizens? Being Jewish isn't a nationality, i's a religion.
> 
> I visited Gibraltar a day after the British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw I think it was, had paid a visit. The place was a sea of Union Jacks. They were everywhere. I'd never seen anything like it in my life, never want to again, tbh. It was a bit like those 'spontaneous' demonstrations the Socialists put on in pre-1989 Czechoslovakia, when people were given the day off and told to line the streets and wave flags to welcome the President of Bulgaria or some other such 'fraternal' socialist state.
> 
> ...


Why did I include Jewish? Probably because a lot of websites include them in stats. No ulterior motive

I wouldn't like to live there, far too crowded. I like large gardens and views of green fields. Yes the fish and chip shops are a bit Fuengirola ish but there are lots of tapas bars and the Marina looks to have some decent restaurants although never tried them.

You seem to be sensitive to flag waving. It isn't exclusive to the British. Have been in Den Haag on their Queens birthday and not just the amount of flags, everyone dresses in orange. If you visit Gibraltar on Gibraltar day you won't see any Union flags just a sea of red with Gibraltar flags. The EU has it's share if flag wavers and it is not even a country. Spain is quite fond of flags too.

I suppose the 6000 plus Spanish workers will have taken a pay drop with the falling pound.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I dislike Gibraltar intensely. It seems to me to have combined the least desirable aspects of Spain and the UK. It's overcrowded, not very aesthetic architecturally, there are loads of tacky shops and although there must be good restaurants most seem to serve warm beer and those odd fish-shaped pieces of breaded frozen fish and chips. It's also a centre for the gaming industry and I detest gambling which is about the only vice I don't practise.
> 
> .


I certainly wouldn't want to live there, I agree it is an overcrowded and ugly place. I don't mind an occasional shopping trip there, though, and there are actually a few half decent restaurants if you stay away from Main Street. I went a couple of weeks ago and had a very nice lunch in Café Rojo on Irish Town, salmon en croute in a parsley cream sauce which came with a serving dish of sauté potatoes and fresh vegetables. Yummy!

I read in the last edition of the Olive Press that Debenhams is taking over the defunct BHS store on Main Street.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I wouldn't like to live there but I have a fair few friends who do. Each to their own I suppose.

Re. flags and things, Gibraltar is far more into that than the UK - their own flag and the union flag very prominent everywhere.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Isobella said:


> Williams, how many Brexit bashing/Brit bashing threads do you intend to start not just the same ole but you have transferred your put down comments about another poster from the Brexit thread!
> 
> You clearly know very little about Gibraltar. Most citizens are Llanitos, have their own language and have lived there for generations. You would probably see more Gibraltar flags than the Union flag. There are also a significant number of Maltese, Jewish, Morroccan and Indian citizens.


Good point








mod hat on for a minute....



Williams2 & anyone else bringing Brexit into this discussion - unless you would like this merged with the Brexit thread, please keep this discussion to the merits of Gib v Spain for retirement


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Why did I include Jewish? Probably because a lot of websites include them in stats. No ulterior motive
> 
> I wouldn't like to live there, far too crowded. I like large gardens and views of green fields. Yes the fish and chip shops are a bit Fuengirola ish but there are lots of tapas bars and the Marina looks to have some decent restaurants although never tried them.
> 
> ...


No, I didn't ask because I suspected some ulterior motive. I agree, Jews like Muslims are often singled out as a category, a homogenous bloc when that is so far from the truth.
Judaism and Islam are of course religions, not races or nationalities. I don't know but think it likely that Gibraltarian Jews are Sephardic, with links to North Africa rather than 'western' Ashkenazi Jews.

It's odd really because nobody refers to us Brits as 'Christians' in the same way.

No, I don't like flag waving. Not my kind of patriotism. It's mainly harmless but we all know what fervent flag waving can lead to - a bit like wearing a football shirt!
I went to a 'Last Night of the Proms' event on Saturday, we at ADANA organised it to raise funds and we raised over 2500 euros. Over a hundred and twenty people, all immigrant Brits, sat down to roast beef and Yorkshire pud followed by apple pie and custard then watched the Proms on a big screen.
The garden where the event was held was decorated with Union Jacks and we all waved little plastic flags and sang 'Rule Britannia' and 'Land of Hope and Glory' with great gusto me included, but then I love a good sing -song and belted out 'The Internationale' when I attended a ceremony to honour Communist victims of the Civil War in the local cemetery.
Saturday's event was good, it struck the right note. Keeping up 'tradition' in a foreign country, coming together as of one common nationality but all in a spirit of good-humoured fun with a touch of self-mockery.
The Best of British, really.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> ... belted out 'The Internationale' when I attended a ceremony to honour Communist victims of the Civil War in the local cemetery...


On your own?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> On your own?


I had accompaniment...


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Had a glance at some demographics of Gibraltar. 78% are Catholic. Jews are described as an Ethnic group. Surprisingly they are only 2% of the population. Demonstrates how ones perceptions can be wrong. I thought it would be much higher. Have seen a few shops on Main St. Shut for Jewish holidays and there seems a huge crowd turning out of the Synagogue.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Had a glance at some demographics of Gibraltar. 78% are Catholic. Jews are described as an Ethnic group. Surprisingly they are only 2% of the population. Demonstrates how ones perceptions can be wrong. I thought it would be much higher. Have seen a few shops on Main St. Shut for Jewish holidays and there seems a huge crowd turning out of the Synagogue.


2% of the population would be about 600 people. Funny how there always seems to be at least six on every flight I take in or out of Gib. They are very conspicuous though.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If anyone is thinking of leaving England because it's "full" (a complaint I read on this forum recently), don't go to Gibraltar. The population density is 4559 people per km2, compared to 255 in the UK and 91 in Spain. Not a place to get away from it all.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density


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## Evilbungle (Jul 8, 2016)

Alcalaina said:


> If anyone is thinking of leaving England because it's "full" (a complaint I read on this forum recently), don't go to Gibraltar. The population density is 4559 people per km2, compared to 255 in the UK and 91 in Spain. Not a place to get away from it all.
> 
> https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density


Even London on it's own is only about 1500 so that is pretty crowded


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## st3v3y (Aug 27, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> Some very rich people apparently have an address in Gibraltar to benefit from the tax regime but prefer to live in Spain. Wise choice.


A much better place to have your centre of economic interests, especially now that you have to declare worldwide assets in Spain. Also healthcare is another bonus of Gibraltar residency so yeah, apartment in Gib and house in Spain is common. For the 183 days rule, if you work nights in Gib, even if it is 11pm - 1am then that counts as a day out of Spain.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

st3v3y said:


> A much better place to have your centre of economic interests, especially now that you have to declare worldwide assets in Spain. Also healthcare is another bonus of Gibraltar residency so yeah, apartment in Gib and house in Spain is common. For the 183 days rule, if you work nights in Gib, even if it is 11pm - 1am then that counts as a day out of Spain.


The 183 days rules is one thing that could make you tax resident or not in Spain, but there are other things that could still render you tax resident irrespective of the time you spend in Spain:



> You are resident in Spain for tax purposes if any of the following apply:
> 
> 1.You spend more than 183 days in Spain in one calendar year. This is whether or not you take out a formal residence permit. These days do not have to be consecutive. Temporary absences from Spain are ignored for the purpose of the 183-day rule unless it can be proved that you are habitually resident in another country for more than 183 days a calendar year,
> 2.Your “centre of economic interests” is in Spain, i.e. the base for your economic or professional activities is in Spain.
> ...


Fulfill any one of the above and you are tax resident.

From here https://www.blevinsfranks.com/News/BlevinsFranks/Article/tax-residence-spain


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## steve01 (Dec 8, 2010)

awful, awful, TRULY AWFUL.
if you can afford to park your yacht there and enjoy that lifestyle, ready to leave the moment the inevitable Spanish problem starts - maybe - otherwise i can't see any reason on Earth why anyone would want to live on this god forsaken , barren, boring dump
like a really bad Disney theme park without the attractions, just leaving the high prices and bad food


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

steve01 said:


> awful, awful, TRULY AWFUL.
> if you can afford to park your yacht there and enjoy that lifestyle, ready to leave the moment the inevitable Spanish problem starts - maybe - otherwise i can't see any reason on Earth why anyone would want to live on this god forsaken , barren, boring dump
> like a really bad Disney theme park without the attractions, just leaving the high prices and bad food


Steve - how can you say that - it's the land of milk and honey for those Brit's who want to return to the days of Empire after leaving the EU !!


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## steve01 (Dec 8, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> Steve - how can you say that - it's the land of milk and honey for those Brit's who want to return to the days of Empire after leaving the EU !!


They are most welcome to it
any country with 10 times more mail boxes than people , where the only interesting thing to do is count the number of mail boxes is not for me.
i really wanted to visit after living previously so close in Nerja , but never going, so i made a special journey from Portugal.
A monkey, a postbox, a telephone box, a terrible pint of beer, an even worse meal, a short stroll around the Island - half a day - more than enough - to think of spending the rest of my life there - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

steve01 said:


> They are most welcome to it
> any country with 10 times more mail boxes than people , where the only interesting thing to do is count the number of mail boxes is not for me.
> i really wanted to visit after living previously so close in Nerja , but never going, so i made a special journey from Portugal.
> A monkey, a postbox, a telephone box, a terrible pint of beer, an even worse meal, a short stroll around the Island - half a day - more than enough - to think of spending the rest of my life there - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Of course there's always Port Stanley with that bracing South Atlantic sea air, for those hardy Empire builders who are
up to the challenge !!!

I hear the world renowned Upland Goose Hotel in Port Stanley serves a decent pint and more or less serves as
the unofficial Officers Mess for the British garrison out there.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Williams2 said:


> Of course there's always Port Stanley with that bracing South Atlantic sea air for those hardy Empire builders who are
> up to the challenge !!!
> 
> I hear the world renowned Upland Goose Hotel in Port Stanley serves a decent pint and more or less serves as
> the unofficial Officers Mess for the British garrison out there.


I watched some episodes of the tv show "An Island Parish" about life in the Falklands - well you certainly couldn't say they are overcrowded, but I'd rather have all my fingernails pulled out with rusty pliers than live there. It looked like all the worst aspects of life back in the 1950s with attitudes to match. You couldn't blink without the entire population knowing about it (it would probably make the front page of the local rag as the most exciting thing to happen that week) and a whist drive would be the highlight of the social calendar. There aren't even any traffic lights you could watch changing to stave off the boredom.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I watched some episodes of the tv show "An Island Parish" about life in the Falklands - well you certainly couldn't say they are overcrowded, but I'd rather have all my fingernails pulled out with rusty pliers than live there. It looked like all the worst aspects of life back in the 1950s with attitudes to match. You couldn't blink without the entire population knowing about it (it would probably make the front page of the local rag as the most exciting thing to happen that week) and a whist drive would be the highlight of the social calendar. There aren't even any traffic lights you could watch changing to stave off the boredom.


Of course Britain's already well on course for returning to the 1950's and for those Brit's who hark back to The Good Old Days. The Falklands would be like manna from heaven for them.
Also don't forget there's an abundance of Sheep and Penguins to stave off the boredom !!!


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