# Best quality of life in Europe



## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

A report quoted in todays Telegraph states Spain has the best quality of life in Europe & poor old England comes behind Poland, Agree?, answers on a postcard please!.
UK second worst in Europe for quality of life, says survey - Telegraph


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm always VERY dubious about these "surveys". Like what were the factors they based it on? - what was the demographic base?.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> I'm always VERY dubious about these "surveys". Like what were the factors they based it on? - what was the demographic base?.



I dislike surveys - they only ever show what the sponsor wants them to or will be manipulated to say whatever anyone wants them to say. Wasre of time and money - I cant even be bothered to read em

Jo


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Just read this report. Very interesting. And I have to agree with Chris however it would appear on the face of it that this organisation keeps pretty close tabs on all manner of lifestyle and economic factors. Mind you I couldnt find the original report on the survey only newspaper articles on their findings.

Kym


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

hey what time is it there? we are 6.22pm in oz.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

dizzy said:


> hey what time is it there? we are 6.22pm in oz.


10:23 when you posted.


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## GDE (Jun 18, 2008)

I agree that these surveys are pretty useless.

As an example, I moved from Zurich, Switzerland to Vilnius, Lithuania. Most surveys put Zurich as a top city on the lists of quality of life and Lithuania, I suppose would probably be similar to Poland. 

Life is certainly different here, but most of the differences do not impact quality of life in a dramatic way. For example, we miss the wonderful public transportation in Switzerland. The ease and reliability of Swiss public transportation have a major impact on quality of life. However, we would rarely take a taxi in Switzerland because of the high costs. Here, on the otherhand, for the price of a tram ticket for two, you can take a taxi! So, what is the impact of that on the quality of life and how can a survey take that into account?


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## rowlandsbb (Jun 30, 2007)

The current economic situation does not affect this and for life style buyers who can afford to buy now, they may well look back and think. 2008 buy was just great!!!'.....it has happened to many before

But do not take equity release from your UK home to do it as an investment....only if you are buying for life style.....full/ part time living or a holiday home....much cheaper and warmer than UK!!!

(SNIP)


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Much depends on what part of you Spain you live really.

I doubt many people in Logrono or Lugo would agree - lol


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## Wils & Nance (Dec 31, 2007)

*Hi all !*

That survey was based on : 

Hours of sunshine
Working hours
Holiday entitlement
The food we eat
Life span
You name it , they covered it and the UK came 10th !
Really sad isn't it !


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Wils & Nance said:


> That survey was based on :
> Hours of sunshine
> Working hours
> Holiday entitlement
> ...


This is ODD though. 

The Spanish may only have a 40hr week But their working day IS LONG. 9-7 is VERY normal plus commuting. That 2(3) hour lunch sounds good but it's a PITA if you're not working close (enough to walk) to home. It more or less means you only work/eat/sleep during the week - am always struck in the UK & Germany that weekday hobby time is much more plentiful.

And the Holiday system is not that clever imo/e. Whilst 30days sounds good it's not 30 working days. If you take a week off you're off 7 days. Take Friday off and it's 3 days off (if you can take only Friday - the law more or less allows Employers to restrict you to two 15day breaks - Many companies simply SHUT in August). Personally I do not find that provides me with Quality - having to travel high season. 

The current economic situation MOST CERTAINLY does affect this - and especially if you have to pay a mortgage. It's already reported that the Spanish are buying less quality foodstocks. A 15% drop in sales of "Ibericos" for a start. Also I've noted a huge move in where folk shop here - Less Hipercor/Carrefour and more LIDL/ALDI. 

I'm not sure that Life Span is a plus if you spend it in poverty either. 

Don't get me wrong - I wont be leaving. But I am in the position of not having to rely on working to eat.


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## RichDad (Jul 29, 2008)

*Happiness*

The problem with these surveys is the matter is so subjective... what about considering items like suicide rate, alcoholism and social security?

I agree with Chris, life span, working hours and holidays does not make happiness for themselves. For me, sun and warm weather all around the year, good food and drink and peace of mind are the things that make me happy. I found these things in Spain more than any other country I lived in. I understand people coming from cold countries and living on what they save in heating and clothes.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

For what its worth, I agree with Chris from Madrid !


I think some people venture off to Spain thinking life will be automatically
trouble and stress free, but in reality thats really not the case unless you
are retired or don't have to work

Most expats I know that live in Spain do not have a life of luxury and struggle to make end meet; although some people I know don't have to work

Unemployment is very much on the increase, property prices are on the decline in many areas of Spain (especially on the Costa's), inflation is increasing and so are monthly mortgage payments - so Spain is going through hard times !


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

RichDad said:


> For me, sun and warm weather all around the year,


But it depends WHERE in Spain. I was in a village near Avila last weekend . Sunny, 'tis true. But plain chilly in the evening. We left there at 10PM - 15ºC. That's not chilly I hear you chorus - but arrived home at 1AM - 27ºC.

There's a tendency for folk to think that Spain is basically Andalucia/Mucia/Alicante. Most of it isn't.

Burgos is often colder than the UK. The North coast is basically much like the UK South Coast. Madrid(province) can be BLAZING HOT in Summer and ICED UP in Winter.

And here's the rub... A lot of Spanish houses are VERY energy inefficient.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

I see what you are saying Chris and agree, however most expats go to the Costa's on holiday and then relocate to the same area. Very few of them have really traveled Spain and most of them have never even heard of Galicia, let alone actually spent time there.

I know people who have lived in Torremolinos for years and they have not even ventured out of Andalucia in all the years they have been there.

Personally, I have managed to find the time to visit most of Spain and whilst the South is clearly best for the sunshine, the North is by far the most beautiful and some parts of the North are quite stunning in truth

I mean, who on here has ever been to San Sebastian or Baiona ?


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Its 1-30 pm, and its 40c in the shade on the Costa del Sol, great for the morale!. (you can keep all that rain). Now for a little white wine & tortilla. (just kill those pesky ants first). Rob


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

rjnpenang said:


> Its 1-30 pm, and its 40c in the shade on the Costa del Sol, great for the morale!.


Right then - off you go for a walk - Oh btw 3 piece suit please 



> Personally, I have managed to find the time to visit most of Spain


 MOST? - I'm jealous. I've seen alot whilst working though. Loads of business lunches/suppers too


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

I think that things that concern us over here such as vast increases in energy costs aren't that important in Spain because you don't use the stuff like we do in the UK.

Having your meals on the patio rather than indoors with the sound of rain on your windows leads to you being more relaxed. The need for less warm clothing and the costs incurred must also be nice. If you are fortunate enough to have a pool, what a way to start and end a day.

I am sure that there are other issues in Spain, but whatever they are you can more often than not worry about them in good weather with a nice glass of wine in your hand.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

crookesey said:


> I think that things that concern us over here such as vast increases in energy costs aren't that important in Spain because you don't use the stuff like we do in the UK.


 Believe me, if you have average max temps of 10ºC for 4 months or more a year, and a Spanish built home, the cost of fuel worries you. Especially if you earn €600/month. 

I know folk who HAVE to heat 6 months a year. If I wanted our house toasty warm in Winter we'd go through about €100/week in gas(last winters prices) and about 1000kgs of firewood/month. Normally need to have the odd fire as early as late Oct/early Nov and can be still necessary in April. My parents home in the UK (which is VERY well insulated etc) uses less. Spanish houses ime (not just mine) feel damp with very little rain too.

Pool - imo (and now ime) a lot of effort & expense for little benefit. I made it a pre-req for my wife - You want it - you maintain it. The novelty is already wearing off a bit. And no - I don't use it - I'd rather have a shower.

All this said - I'm still very glad I stayed away from Manchester.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Believe me, if you have average max temps of 10ºC for 4 months or more a year, and a Spanish built home, the cost of fuel worries you. Especially if you earn €600/month.
> 
> I know folk who HAVE to heat 6 months a year. If I wanted our house toasty warm in Winter we'd go through about €100/week in gas(last winters prices) and about 1000kgs of firewood/month. Normally need to have the odd fire as early as late Oct/early Nov and can be still necessary in April. My parents home in the UK (which is VERY well insulated etc) uses less. Spanish houses ime (not just mine) feel damp with very little rain too.
> 
> ...


We are often in Spain in April and October and have never needed the heating on, infact we swim in the sea on a daily basis when we visit the Mijas Costa in late October/early November. We have also been on the Costa Blanca in January, and yes it was bloody cold and very wet but conversally we have also experienced lovely weather in January.

I wouldnt want to dispute your figures, but £100.00 per week sounds a bit high. My mate has gas heating and water in his villa derived from tall thin gas bottles on a rack in the gas house, you will know the system, four either side of each other with a switch over lever. How much would that amount of wood cost by the way, and is it delivered to you?

I have never been given an answer to this, what would the pay back time be for solar? With all that sun it seems a shame not to harness it's energy.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

crookesey said:


> We are often in Spain in April and October and have never needed the heating on, infact we swim in the sea on a daily basis when we visit the Mijas Costa in late October/early November. We have also been on the Costa Blanca in January, and yes it was bloody cold and very wet but conversally we have also experienced lovely weather in January.
> 
> I wouldnt want to dispute your figures, but £100.00 per week sounds a bit high. My mate has gas heating and water in his villa derived from tall thin gas bottles on a rack in the gas house, you will know the system, four either side of each other with a switch over lever. How much would that amount of wood cost by the way, and is it delivered to you?
> 
> I have never been given an answer to this, what would the pay back time be for solar? With all that sun it seems a shame not to harness it's energy.


Like I say it depends where you live. Bear in mind that where I work is often cut off with snow in winter. Home, we normally escape "cut off" but iced up is a yearly event. My experience of Spanish winter is that there can be HUGE shifts day/night. I've seen 20ºC sun midday and -5ºC night.

Gas. We have the same bottles. We have double double (4 layers) glazed windows now and that made a difference. Damp is our enemy really though. If it rains here in winter - it's unpleasantly cold. A rack of 4 a week is quite easy to use if you're at home all day. Was well over €100 a rack last year, could well have been a lot more. I normally get 3 weeks from a stack but our house is coolish in winter (light sweater a must). It'll rise this year NO DOUBT AT ALL. Wont surprise me if it hits €200 a rack.

Wood - I think the last load cost us about €500ish for 6000kgs - delivered and stacked. But that's CHEAP - ours came from Guadalajara (about 100kms away) and we had it delivered in Summer - it's more in demand and more expensive in Autumn. It's also drier so you get more wood for your tonne. Here close to us it's a GOOD 50% more expensive. Down side is we have to buy it in 6000kg lots (small truckload) - it takes a fair amount of space. Only accept Encina (Holm Oak) and make sure it's cut for your need. they'll ask if they're any good.

Hot Water Solar - has become a pre-req for new building permits here (Madrid). You must deal with 40% of hot water costs - which is so tiny it's hardly worth it imo.

It will work well IF you have space for a LARGE heat storage retainer (big water tank) How big - I'm told 20,000litres (largish swimming pool) would make most homes totally self sufficient. 

Doing it after the event - Not sure. But I'm going to look at this during Aug/Sept as it's time methinks.

Just spoken with our municipal architect - he reckons it pays for itself faster than most folk think - as you simply leave the heating on. He's given me his contact - but it's Aug 1 so he's on hol's 'til Sept.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

crookesey said:


> We are often in Spain in April and October and have never needed the heating on, infact we swim in the sea on a daily basis when we visit the Mijas Costa in late October/early November.


Yes, that was the same for us for two years. I used to sit on the balcony at two in the morning in April and Oct which were the months we used to come. Used to think how warm it is.

Right now however its 98 degrees, and its been like this for ages, reaching up to 104. Once you've been living here for a year you wont find it quite so easy to sit out in April and October as you get used to the climate. Our heating came on last year in early October and stayed on through till March / April. The electricity / heating bills were around €170 every two months split between electric and logs.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

In reply,

Does anybody know if the Spanish actually damp proof their property ?
As we know a lot of people with damp related issues.

The people we know that live in Madrid, escape to the North every July/August just o get away from the heat. In fact most people we know that live in the South do exactly the same.

Don't get me wrong, we like the South a lot, but come July/August its too hot for us and thats why we would not consider living there all year round, but for 9/10 months of the year it must be great !

Regards, Dave


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Does anybody know if the Spanish actually damp proof their property ?
> As we know a lot of people with damp related issues.


Now - YES! What they tend to do is Build the house inside a rubber liner. And/or paint the lower sections with a stiff rubber paint.

Older properties - Well many are timber beams for a start. The Spanish even after discovering cavity walls tend to put the windows on the inner wall - So unless the sills are PERFECTLY sealed water runs down the inside of the inner wall.

We had issues where where water percolated through the cement and then down inside inner walls. Putting glass on the outer edge of the outer wall stopped it immediately.


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