# Skilled Migration Visa Application - Australian Police Clearance, Residential Status



## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I am writing this post because I have two questions regarding the Skilled Migration visa application lodgement.

During the past 10 years, I have travelled around Australia for a cumulative amount of about 22 months, among which is one year being on a Working Holiday Visa.

My first question is: Do I need to provide a police clearance certificate from the AFP along with my visa lodgement? As far as I know, I need to provide PCC for all countries where I have lived for at least 12 months cumulative. However, there's a difference between "living" in Australia on a Working Holiday Visa and being a resident. Is there?

The second question refers to the visa application itself. In the section "Previous Countries of Residence", asking "Have any of the applicants lived in a country other than the primary applicants usual country of residence?", do I need to select "yes" because of the above Work & Travel period? While I have "kind of" lived in Australia on my Working Holiday visa, I have never had resident status.

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience and opinions.

Kind regards,
firedragon


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

You're confusing "(permanent) residence" and "living". You can live in a country without holding "residence" in said country - for example, people who are on work visas etc.

If you lived in Australia for 12 months or more you will be required to obtain a PCC for that stay, regardless of what visa you were on. You will also need to state that you lived in Australia on your application as well.


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

ozbound12 said:


> You're confusing "(permanent) residence" and "living". You can live in a country without holding "residence" in said country - for example, people who are on work visas etc.
> 
> If you lived in Australia for 12 months or more you will be required to obtain a PCC for that stay, regardless of what visa you were on. You will also need to state that you lived in Australia on your application as well.


Thank you, that's basically what I had expected and how I had understood it. I just needed confirmation.


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

Say, do you know, by any chance, if the "normal" online police check application is sufficient? I have noticed they have changed the process and that you can now apply online and pay by credit card. However, I am unsure whether a finger print check is necessary for the purpose of skilled migration.



DIAC said:


> For the Australian Government to determine whether you are of good character, you may be asked to provide police certificates for each country you have lived in for 12 months or more over the last ten (10) years since turning 16.
> 
> If you are applying outside Australia, you do not have to provide this information when you apply. You will be advised when it is required.


and



DIAC said:


> Character-related information
> 
> Fact Sheet 79 - The Character Requirement
> Form 80 – Personal particulars for character assessment (386KB PDF file)
> ...


There, they state that fingerprints aren't required. (Link: http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/character-requirements/)

However, I'm still unsure if the above applies to the Skilled Migration visa application as well.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

Yes, the online application is acceptable - you do not need a fingerprint check.


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

ozbound12 said:


> You're confusing "(permanent) residence" and "living". You can live in a country without holding "residence" in said country - for example, people who are on work visas etc.
> 
> If you lived in Australia for 12 months or more you will be required to obtain a PCC for that stay, regardless of what visa you were on. You will also need to state that you lived in Australia on your application as well.


Getting back to my original question and having reviewed what is being asked I think it's no surprise I'm "confusing" these two things:

The question in the form is "Have any of the applicants lived in a country other than the primary applicants usual country of residence?" but the headline of the section is a big fat "Previous Countries of *Residence*". Now I'm confused again. They are *asking for an address*, which I don't have, because *I travelled* around Australia hopping from hostel to hostel. I have *lived in Australia on a Working Holiday Visa* but I have *never lived there as a resident*.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

firedragon said:


> Getting back to my original question and having reviewed what is being asked I think it's no surprise I'm "confusing" these two things: The question in the form is "Have any of the applicants lived in a country other than the primary applicants usual country of residence?" but the headline of the section is a big fat "Previous Countries of Residence". Now I'm confused again. They are asking for an address, which I don't have, because I travelled around Australia hopping from hostel to hostel. I have lived in Australia on a Working Holiday Visa but I have never lived there as a resident.


Hostels have addresses.


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

ozbound12 said:


> Hostels have addresses.


But I didn't stay in the same hostel all the time. Which one would I specify? The one at which I stayed five days? Or the one at which I stayed 7 days? See, the question is not "have you travelled Australia" but "have you lived in Australia" with a focus on residence. I have doubts that travelling on a Working Holiday would count as "living" in a country.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2013)

So if you were not living in Australia where were you living whilst you were in Australia for 12 months? Germany 

Put any or all of them depending on the space provided and which ones you stayed longest.


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

_shel said:


> So if you were not living in Australia where were you living whilst you were in Australia for 12 months? Germany
> 
> Put any or all of them depending on the space provided and which ones you stayed longest.


I get your point. Anyhow, do you "live" in a country just because you travel around there for a few months? Certainly not. No, I didn't live in Germany during that time either. I did not have any permanent address anywhere while I was travelling. When I stayed somewhere, I extended my stay on a daily or weekly basis. How could this be a permanent address? Should I, in this case, also state that I travelled to Fiji and New Zealand because I stayed in a hostel for a few days?

The question in the Add... dialogue is "Give details of the last *permanent address *in this country." - I haven't had any permanent address in Australia. Ever. I stayed in one hostel for an enlengthened period, alright. But it certainly wasn't a "permanent address". Maybe it sounds different or even totally clear to you as a native speaker, but even when you know a foreign language very well some terms can be ambiguous. Here's *one* definition of "country of residence": https://lfylive.lse.ac.uk/lfy/tc/enquiries/enquiry.html?a=4&q=30400 - ("If you have been in another country for purposes of education or short-term employment this will not change your country of residence"). I know, it's just an example. But I suppose the question in fact is what DIAC's definition is here.

My problem with filling this out is that they say if you give misleading information your visa application might be refused. So I don't want to claim I have lived in Australia if actually I only *travelled* there. I don't want to give them a "permanent address" that actually was a temporary (if long) stay address in a hostel. You're probably right that I should rather mention it than omitting it. Well, I remember that, when I applied for the Working Holiday visa, the form was much clearer in this regard.

So please bear with me as I just do not want to raise any issue due to unclear information. This all is just too important to me and I don't want to slip over any minor pitfall that might turn out to be a big issue.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2013)

You are reading far more in to it and complicating things that are actually easy to understand. 'Country of residence' 'permanent residence' and 'living/lived' are different concepts that you are confusing and making more complicated than it has to be. 

If you had a visa that allowed you to stay legally in Australia long term (whv) and you were in the country using it, you were at that point in time 'living' in Australia as you were not just on a short holiday due to go home in a couple of weeks. Your country of residence (legal definition) would have been Germany IF that was were you were permanently living before moving to Australia. 

You 'live' wherever you happen to be laying your head to sleep, are using as your base for that extended period in time which is more than a short holiday away from the usual place you live. 

They only want addresses to be able to scan the system for any police records for you not to prove your residence legal or otherwise. Give any addresses you stayed at its not a trick question.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

firedragon said:


> I get your point. Anyhow, do you "live" in a country just because you travel around there for a few months? Certainly not. No, I didn't live in Germany during that time either. I did not have any permanent address anywhere while I was travelling. When I stayed somewhere, I extended my stay on a daily or weekly basis. How could this be a permanent address? Should I, in this case, also state that I travelled to Fiji and New Zealand because I stayed in a hostel for a few days? The question in the Add... dialogue is "Give details of the last permanent address in this country." - I haven't had any permanent address in Australia. Ever. I stayed in one hostel for an enlengthened period, alright. But it certainly wasn't a "permanent address". Maybe it sounds different or even totally clear to you as a native speaker, but even when you know a foreign language very well some terms can be ambiguous. Here's one definition of "country of residence": https://lfylive.lse.ac.uk/lfy/tc/enquiries/enquiry.html?a=4&q=30400 - ("If you have been in another country for purposes of education or short-term employment this will not change your country of residence"). I know, it's just an example. But I suppose the question in fact is what DIAC's definition is here. My problem with filling this out is that they say if you give misleading information your visa application might be refused. So I don't want to claim I have lived in Australia if actually I only *travelled* there. I don't want to give them a "permanent address" that actually was a temporary (if long) stay address in a hostel. You're probably right that I should rather mention it than omitting it. Well, I remember that, when I applied for the Working Holiday visa, the form was much clearer in this regard. So please bear with me as I just do not want to raise any issue due to unclear information. This all is just too important to me and I don't want to slip over any minor pitfall that might turn out to be a big issue.


You're welcome to consult a migration agent if you don't think the advice you're getting here is worthwhile. We are migrants and potential migrants just like you - not experts. I think Shel has been pretty descriptive in terms of providing you with guidance on this matter. If it's still not making sense then getting an agent to help you might be the best course of action.


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

_shel said:


> You are reading far more in to it and complicating things that are actually easy to understand. 'Country of residence' 'permanent residence' and 'living/lived' are different concepts that you are confusing and making more complicated than it has to be.
> 
> If you had a visa that allowed you to stay legally in Australia long term (whv) and you were in the country using it, you were at that point in time 'living' in Australia as you were not just on a short holiday due to go home in a couple of weeks. Your country of residence (legal definition) would have been Germany IF that was were you were permanently living before moving to Australia.
> 
> ...


Alright, maybe I am complicating things. If they provided examples and better explanations for circumstances like these I wouldn't worry that much. I guess I can accept your argumentation for my Working Holiday Visa. 

In addition, I had a visitor visa valid for three months stays. How about those (multiple) three-month stays I made in Australia in the past year? According to what you outlined, I will provide those, too, is that correct?

I absolutely don't remember all the hostels at which I stayed during both periods of travel. Can I just provide addresses of the hostel where I stayed last or would it be the address where I stayed the longest?


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## firedragon (Mar 31, 2012)

ozbound12 said:


> You're welcome to consult a migration agent if you don't think the advice you're getting here is worthwhile. We are migrants and potential migrants just like you - not experts. I think Shel has been pretty descriptive in terms of providing you with guidance on this matter. If it's still not making sense then getting an agent to help you might be the best course of action.


Look, please don't take it personal. I think I've been descriptive as well in terms of what my understanding of the question is and why I think it sounds ambiguous to me. I haven't said anywhere your or Shel's advice wasn't worthwhile. In fact, I do appreciate your comments - otherwise I wouldn't ask for your opinions. But I don't think it's forbidden to discuss different point of views or aspects or arguments. 

In deed, I have tried to get an agent but they all refused because my application is already in progress. One argument was, for instance, "I wouldn't know what to charge you." Another agent advised me to withdraw my EOI (!) for state nomination and try a different state because there was no chance in the applied state... I didn't, both because I'm committed to that state and because I found it a strange advice, and weeks later I received the invitation to apply, nominated by the state. I've read tons of forum posts and I've read from almost as many people complaining about bad advice from their agents ("my agent didn't know either", "my agent gave me wrong information", ...). That didn't particularly increase my trust in them.

So, again, don't take it personal. I'm just trying to figure out possible pitfalls. And, as Shel said, I might just be (over-)complicating things. Thank you both for your advice so far.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

firedragon said:


> Look, please don't take it personal. I think I've been descriptive as well in terms of what my understanding of the question is and why I think it sounds ambiguous to me. I haven't said anywhere your or Shel's advice wasn't worthwhile. In fact, I do appreciate your comments - otherwise I wouldn't ask for your opinions. But I don't think it's forbidden to discuss different point of views or aspects or arguments. In deed, I have tried to get an agent but they all refused because my application is already in progress. One argument was, for instance, "I wouldn't know what to charge you." Another agent advised me to withdraw my EOI (!) for state nomination and try a different state because there was no chance in the applied state... I didn't, both because I'm committed to that state and because I found it a strange advice, and weeks later I received the invitation to apply, nominated by the state. I've read tons of forum posts and I've read from almost as many people complaining about bad advice from their agents ("my agent didn't know either", "my agent gave me wrong information", ...). That didn't particularly increase my trust in them. So, again, don't take it personal. I'm just trying to figure out possible pitfalls. And, as Shel said, I might just be (over-)complicating things. Thank you both for your advice so far.


I'm not taking it personally - who said I was? I think it's fair to say you're welcome to find a second or third opinion. So, please don't assume there is any emotion attached to that statement. I don't know you - I'm not going to be offended by anything you say.

That said, I think Shel is right in saying that you're making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Just do your best in listing the addresses of places where you have stayed and if the CO needs clarification, they will contact you. It's not as though they'll deny your visa because you couldn't remember the name of that one hostel you stayed at.


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