# Changing NIE from British to Irish



## thomas.j.mckeown (8 mo ago)

Hi guys,

Been resident in Spain for 12 years now and since last year I have been trying to update my NIE to show my Irish Nationality instead of British (do not wish to apply for TIE).

I have had several appointments with the extranjeria and spoken with several lawyers, gestors etc and they are all saying that there is no process for changing the nationality that is associated with your NIE. However now I am in the process of registering my spouse as a family member of EU citizen and they are saying my NIE is invalid for this since it still says British.

Does anyone else on here have experience of this?

All help appreciated.

Many thanks,

Tom


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

thomas.j.mckeown said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Been resident in Spain for 12 years now and since last year I have been trying to update my NIE to show my Irish Nationality instead of British (do not wish to apply for TIE).
> 
> ...


It's the first time I've heard of your NIE being linked to your nationality. I'd be interested too if there is an explanation. 

Steve


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

can you not just apply for a new NIE?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Your NIE is the number but yes it is linked to age, place of birth, address, nationality. The green cards actually have all this on them. You cant reapply as you already have a number which will be coordinated with this data. However, given you can always get a new card with a new address I find it hard to believe you cant indicate a nationality change.
The OP has been resident 12 years so could apply for Spanish citizenship and therefore circumvent all these problems.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joey Testa said:


> can you not just apply for a new NIE?


No, you can't.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Your NIE is the number but yes it is linked to age, place of birth, address, nationality. The green cards actually have all this on them. You cant reapply as you already have a number which will be coordinated with this data. However, given you can always get a new card with a new address I find it hard to believe you cant indicate a nationality change.
> The OP has been resident 12 years so could apply for Spanish citizenship and therefore circumvent all these problems.


You can have the nationality assigned on your NIE changed, & of course as an Irish citizen, they wouldn't need to change to a TIE should that become required. 

TBH the Brexit WA rules are better for British citizens who were already resident before Brexit, so I'd keep my pre-Brexit residency rights, were I the OP.


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

xabiaxica said:


> You can have the nationality assigned on your NIE changed, & of course as an Irish citizen, they wouldn't need to change to a TIE should that become required.
> 
> TBH the Brexit WA rules are better for British citizens who were already resident before Brexit, so I'd keep my pre-Brexit residency rights, were I the OP.


*xabiaxica*, why exactly would it be better for a British citizen to keep their residency rights etc., under the withdrawl agreement, as opposed to taking advantage of switching to being a EU citizen living in Spain (via Irish nationality), that can enjoy the four freedoms?


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> No, you can't.


why not?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dancingspider said:


> *xabiaxica*, why exactly would it be better for a British citizen to keep their residency rights etc., under the withdrawl agreement, as opposed to taking advantage of switching to being a EU citizen living in Spain (via Irish nationality), that can enjoy the four freedoms?


I can only think of one reason tbh. As a beneficiary of the WA, a British citizen with permanent residency can be out of Spain for 5 years without losing their right to residency, whereas an EU citizen can only leave for 2 years. 

As far as the 4 freedoms are concerned, your residency status as an EU citizen or not is neither here nor there. The Irish passport itself is what counts. 

Being resident in one EU country makes no difference to your rights in another, regardless of nationality. The Irish passport does, however mean that you can more easily move to another EU country, should you wish to.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> whereas an EU citizen can only leave for 2 years.


Do you have a source for this?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Joey Testa said:


> why not?


Because once you have a number assigned to you, that's it for life - it never changes!

The source for these rules (EU citizen 2 years etc.) can be found on the gob.es web site


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

xabiaxica said:


> I can only think of one reason tbh. As a beneficiary of the WA, a British citizen with permanent residency can be out of Spain for 5 years without losing their right to residency, whereas an EU citizen can only leave for 2 years.
> 
> As far as the 4 freedoms are concerned, your residency status as an EU citizen or not is neither here nor there. The Irish passport itself is what counts.
> 
> Being resident in one EU country makes no difference to your rights in another, regardless of nationality. The Irish passport does, however mean that you can more easily move to another EU country, should you wish to.


xabiaxica, I find your replies very confused.

1) Your original statement which I queried was, "TBH the Brexit WA rules are better for British citizens who were already resident before Brexit" which suggested that the remaining under the WA rules was better than switching to Irish on the little green card and all the implications flow from making this change. What you offered was simply 5 years versus 2 years, but an EU citizen who is resident in Spain can leave Spain for over 2 years and RETURN unhindered and take up residency here again! What happens if you leave Spain for in excess of 5 years if you are here under the WA?

2) "As far as the 4 freedoms are concerned, your residency status as an EU citizen or not is neither here nor there. The Irish passport itself is what counts." Not sure exactly the point you are trying to make here?

3) "Being resident in one EU country makes no difference to your rights in another", This is poppycock sir!

In conclusion, your reply is so full of contradictions, that I don't even know where to start...!


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

To the OP, I know of a friend who went to one of the government departments which was manned by police. They were dual Irish/British passport holders. The had British on their green card and it was a relatively simple process to switch that to Irish. However, I suspect that had to be completed by the end of last year. Therefore you may have missed the boat on lost some of the rights you would have retained by missing that deadline. 

That all being said if you have an Irish passport you still should be able to get a green card with Irish on it if you want without an issue.

As to the implications of making such a decision, I would not even hazard a guess. I think you need professional guidance on that one.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

If you have an irish passport you can live in Spain WITHOUT the green card. It can be practical to have one but it is not an obligation.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Joey Testa said:


> If you have an irish passport you can live in Spain WITHOUT the green card. It can be practical to have one but it is not an obligation.


Not quite sue what you mean. As a EU member you need a green card as it shows you are registered as a resident as a EU citizen. Everyone who is a resident in Spain needs to have some kind of proof of residency. However I think you are maybe confusing the TIE that Brits need with the green EU card. Brits registered before Brexit have green cards but are not compelled to get TIEs.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Joey Testa said:


> If you have an irish passport you can live in Spain WITHOUT the green card. It can be practical to have one but it is not an obligation.


According to the Real Decreto 240/2007 (16th February), 


https://www.boe.es/buscar/pdf/2007/BOE-A-2007-4184-consolidado.pdf


it is not optional unless the stay is less than 90 days. Over 90 days without obtaining the certificate of registration is a breach of this law and makes your stay, technically illegal (although the penalty is practically non-existent and rarely applied).

This law is aligned with the EU Directive for freedom of movemnt by the way, it was challenged in the EU courts and the Spanish Governemnt won.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joey Testa said:


> If you have an irish passport you can live in Spain WITHOUT the green card. It can be practical to have one but it is not an obligation.


It is indeed an obligation.

Many of course don't bother to register, including many British people before Brexit who then tried to prove that they had been living in Spain beforehand, & were unable to do so.

Thus having to leave Spain & either apply for a visa back in the UK, or, if that wasn't financially possible, to simply give up on the idea of ever living in Spain again.

If they had only fulfilled their obligations, they wouldn't have had that problem.


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

thomas.j.mckeown said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Been resident in Spain for 12 years now and since last year I have been trying to update my NIE to show my Irish Nationality instead of British (do not wish to apply for TIE).
> 
> ...


White NIE certificate or green residencia card? I appreciate these apparently weren't the same in every region which complicates things further, but I changed nationality on my green residence card from British to Irish just after the Brexit result. Unfortunately, other people reported (online) trying the same in other areas and were refused. 

There was initially some resistance from the police agent I spoke to but after arguing the point a little bit his curiosity took over and he made some calls which must have ended positively. I've always found Spanish officials much more willing to give things a go than their British equivalents - it's worth just asking until you get the answer you want.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

What would happen if you (hypothetically of course) decided to leave Spain. You deregister from the list of EU Citizens, hand in your original green certificate, and then a few days later, change your mind and go back to register again but with your Irish passport?

Surely they couldn't refuse to reregister you just because you had been previously registered with a different passport?


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