# 2013 taxes



## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

I am doing my USA tax return. No it is not late because I do not owe. I have seven years to file. Besides I filed an extension.

I went to the USA for 8 days in 2013, but not for work. Does that count against my form 2555ez? Do i have to show i was paid on US soil for 8/365ths of the year when I was on a holiday?

In 2014, i will have three trips to the USA totaling about 30 days. Only 7 of those will be work days. The others are family and wedding.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Linuxpro said:


> I am doing my USA tax return. No it is not late because I do not owe. I have seven years to file. Besides I filed an extension.
> 
> I went to the USA for 8 days in 2013, but not for work. Does that count against my form 2555ez? Do i have to show i was paid on US soil for 8/365ths of the year when I was on a holiday?
> 
> In 2014, i will have three trips to the USA totaling about 30 days. Only 7 of those will be work days. The others are family and wedding.


I'll throw in an idea outa left field in case you get no solid information from anyone else.
You or someone you know back home in the states could contact H&R Block for an answer. They "should" be able to get the correct info.

That's the best idea I have and hope others have accurate info...


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

This is in Singapore forum because ????


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

ecureilx said:


> This is in Singapore forum because ????


because of the fact that I get paid in Singapore and I am required to do my USA taxes.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

It's a U.S. tax question better posed in the Expat Tax forum. It's immaterial that you're paid in Singapore specifically.

That said, I'll offer some answers. First of all, you will be late filing your 2013 U.S. tax return if you file after October 15, 2014 (your extended filing deadline that you requested). _There is no penalty for late filing_ if you genuinely owe zero tax, but you are still late. I don't know where you got that 7 year idea from. Please note that your 2013 FBAR/FinCEN Form 114 (if applicable) was due June 30, 2014, there is no extension available, and you are potentially subject to penalties for late filing. More potentially the later you file, so if you haven't filed that form yet (and are required to), do it now. (Currently the U.S. Treasury is being quite lenient. They won't always be so.)

Yes, if you're taking the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion -- prudent for someone living and working in Singapore -- then you'll apportion/report your time spent inside and outside the United States. Just follow the instructions for that form (Form 2555 or its EZ variant, as applicable) -- they're pretty clear, actually. Keep in mind there are two possible tests to qualify for the FEIE, and there's no question from your description that you'll qualify. How much FEIE you get might be slightly variable depending on the circumstances. Don't forget about the Foreign Housing Exclusion (or Foreign Housing Deduction). The same form walks you through that, and that's a pretty big deal in Singapore since the FHE limit is quite high.

That said, if you're nowhere close to the limits then you can be a little "sloppy," e.g. skip the FHE/FHD. You're not required to take that exclusion/deduction, though it's good practice for future tax years when you might be earning more and need it.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

I am pretty far from my limits. 

Next year I will claim credit for tax paid, and maybe FHE.

I already registered my bank accounts.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Linuxpro said:


> Next year I will claim credit for tax paid, and maybe FHE.


That's not allowed.

You can take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion or Foreign Tax Credit on your first X of earned income, not both. (X is the FEIE limit.) You can take the FTC only on income that is not excluded. You cannot take only part of your allowed FEIE -- if you take any FEIE, you must take the FEIE across all your qualifying income up to the limit.

Moreover, there are limits in flipping back and forth between FEIE and FTC year to year. Check the IRS's rules on that.

But it's a moot issue, really. Singapore's income tax rate is comparatively lower than the U.S. rate, so you're better off taking the FEIE with very rare exceptions. One exception would be if you qualify for substantial U.S. refundable tax credits, e.g. the Additional Child Tax Credit, and have quite modest earned income. Then you might qualify for a payment from the IRS -- a negative U.S. tax rate -- and you can't get such payments if you shield all your income with the FEIE.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

Ok, thanx. I am safe from taxes for the foreseeable future.

So long as my salary never exceeds about $120K USD, I have no need for deductions beyond the FEIE, and the standard stuff.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

The 2014 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion limit is actually $99,200. It's _conceivable_ you could pay a bit of U.S. income tax with a US$120,000 salary, so that's a bit high perhaps. It depends on your filing status, how much unearned income you have, what other deductions and credits you qualify for, etc. But you've got the basic idea, yes.

Note carefully: "U.S. income tax." As the most notable example, if you're self-employed you would be required to pay U.S. Social Security and Medicare tax (the self-employment tax), and there are no credits or deductions available in Singapore to avoid that. (Some countries have treaties with the U.S. that mean you participate in their social insurance system, not the U.S. system. Singapore is not one of those countries even if you are required to make CPF contributions.) It's unlikely that you're self-employed in Singapore since that's not a generally suitable arrangement in immigration terms, but I thought I'd mention it.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

I did the math in my head and came up with just above 120k. My wife has a SSN, and i am getting her son an ITIN. They do not know that he does not live with us.

I only have to tolerate this until I get citizenship elsewhere.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Linuxpro said:


> I did the math in my head and came up with just above 120k.


Your head math is close but only close. Let the tax forms, instructions, and calculators do their jobs. (TaxAct.com is free, by the way. You can pay extra if you value the extras, but you don't have to.)



> I only have to tolerate this until I get citizenship elsewhere.


Not quite enough. Possession of another citizenship on its own is immaterial. You would need a U.S. Certificate of Loss of Nationality (CLN), and a prerequisite for a CLN is possession of another citizenship. There are two basic ways to obtain a CLN, but that's beyond the scope of this thread really. (This is still the Singapore forum, after all.)

You may need to pay a U.S. exit tax if you have a high net worth or if your income rises somewhat from present levels. You would still be subject to U.S. income tax on U.S. source income, and you would become subject to 30% withholding on proceeds from U.S. financial assets. Past tax debts are still all yours, too.

It's certainly possible, but it's not _generally_ the wise move in your particular circumstances (zero U.S. tax owed). There is at least contingent, risk-mitigating value in possession of practically every citizenship, and U.S. citizenship is among the more valuable ones. If it isn't costing much -- and an annual FBAR plus a "I'll get around to it" 1040 isn't much -- then it's not worth tossing, in my view.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh and we do pay for pretty much all of his support.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

To elaborate a bit -- and gently steer this discussion toward Singapore -- I think Singapore is a fine place to live and a fine country. I can't promise it will always be so, or even that it will be so next Tuesday. Odds are rather good it will be, but the farther into the future you consider the more those odds decrease. I can't promise that some neighboring country's new crackpot dictator won't decide to invade Singapore some time in the future -- it _could_ happen.

I like to diversify as a technique to reduce risk. Singapore is lovely in many ways, but it's also _tiny_.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

I am mot self employed.

We do provide over half of his support. We may move back to the USA a while so he can goto collage there.

After that I plan to give up the highest maintenance thing I have; my US Citizenship.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> To elaborate a bit -- and gently steer this discussion toward Singapore -- I think Singapore is a fine place to live and a fine country. I can't promise it will always be so, or even that it will be so next Tuesday. Odds are rather good it will be, but the farther into the future you consider the more those odds decrease. I can't promise that some neighboring country's new crackpot dictator won't decide to invade Singapore some time in the future -- it _could_ happen.
> 
> I like to diversify as a technique to reduce risk. Singapore is lovely in many ways, but it's also _tiny_.


I have a lot of trouble coping with life in the USA. People are disrespectful. Piety is rampart. In Singapore I am bigger than everyone. Nobody bothers me. Nobody follows me though a shopping center trying to solicit [insert religion here].

Children behave here. It is funny when Americans get on the train with three kids in tow. Everyone backs away. I have no patience for children, much less American children. That is why I had a vasectomy at 21.

Today I can sit in public with my back to the door. I can sleep more than five hours a night. I do not wake up from nightmares about Kuwait. Singapore does not go around picking fights, so I see little chance of war, or invasion.



All that being said, in about 2018, or so, we will go back to live in the USA or Canada (we may be too old so Canada may not welcome us). Anyway I want my wife to experience small town life in America for a few years before we retire in her country where we can live well on my retirement.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Those are all great reasons (for you at least) to reside in Singapore at the present time in her present condition. It's hard to imagine why they'd be reasons to renounce any particular citizenship.


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## beppi (Jun 10, 2013)

Linuxpro said:


> Singapore does not go around picking fights, so I see little chance of war, or invasion.


Strangely, the government sees this quite differently: Singapore has the biggest army in the world (as percentage of population) and one of the highest defense spendings (as percentage of GDP). Maybe they know something you don't?


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> It's hard to imagine why they'd be reasons to renounce any particular citizenship.


In Myanmar it is illegal for a foreigner to stay in a private residence, even if he owns it. We are required to rent, or to become a citizen. Myanmar does not recognize dual citizenship at this time. By current law it is not hard to become a citizen in Myanmar if you intend to retire there, or to start a business. However the law requires renouncing foreign citizenship.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

beppi said:


> Strangely, the government sees this quite differently: Singapore has the biggest army in the world (as percentage of population) and one of the highest defense spendings (as percentage of GDP). Maybe they know something you don't?


Having a large army and many weapons hardly makes a country a bully nation. The USA has a very bad reputation for being a criminal nation.

Check this out sometime: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/us-depleted-uranium-as-ma_b_3812888.html


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

You might want to read up on Singapore's defence doctrine. Singapore does consider the risk of invasion and occupation realistic and has a comprehensive defence doctrine consistent with that risk.

And it's no surprise. You might also want to crack open a history book. Singapore was invaded and conquered, successfully and brutally, in 1942. That happened despite a strong British Army defence that most people at the time would not have bet against. Singapore (within the Malaysian Federation) was also at war with Indonesia from 1963-1965 in the couple years before Singapore's independence. (Malaysia continued prosecuting that war post-independence.) Most of the fighting occurred on the island of Borneo, though Singapore sent troops (domestic and foreign). There was a significant risk of military attack both pre- and post-independence, then again when British forces pulled out.

Singapore has also seen several race riots: 1964 (in two periods, a total of 36 people killed), 1969 (4 killed), and 2013 (no fatalities, excluding the pedestrian run over by a private bus and killed, the incident that sparked the riot).

Can anyone guarantee that any of these events will not recur, perhaps even with greater severity? No. There is that possibility -- and the possibility of other tragedies and calamities.


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## Linuxpro (Jan 28, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> Singapore has also seen several race riots: 1964 (in two periods, a total of 36 people killed), 1969 (4 killed), and 2013 (no fatalities, excluding the pedestrian run over by a private bus and killed, the incident that sparked the riot).
> 
> Can anyone guarantee that any of these events will not recur, perhaps even with greater severity? No. There is that possibility -- and the possibility of other tragedies and calamities.


You never lived in the South near the Mexican border have you? Riots like the one in Little India happen once every few years in border towns like Juarez, and McAllen. They hardly make the news. 

The LA riots, and the Chicago riot made the news because they are not border towns.

I grew up in a "war zone". My father came back from Vietnam an addict. He was afraid "charlie" was going to find us, so we had to live in a barrios. The day we moved in to that hood were were unpacking the rental trailer. A truck full of (lets call them illegal aliens) backed up to our rental truck and proceeded to help themselves. We had only taken possession of the property about two hours before we got robbed in full daylight. It went down hill from there. 

How do you escape the barrios. You go into the military... Then to Kuwait!

I have already seen more action that Singapore will ever have to offer. My boss is an officer in the Singapore Army. He tells me lots of stories.

I mailed off my taxes two weeks ago!


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