# J1 to F1



## Skippy13 (Oct 1, 2008)

Hey guys, 
Some of you may have noticed that I posted before asking about MBA options in the USA. Over the last week or two I have been doing some research into schools and have been encouraged by what I have come across. I am planning on concentrating my applications around schools in California and Arizona (good schools and great climate). 

I have also come across professional training contracts for the USA, which would allow me to work there for 18 months in some kind of training role......the money doesnt look like it would be great but my ultimate aim is to spend as much time in the USA as possible and upon completing my MBA, stay out there. 

So my question is this.....if I were to go ahead and do the PTC on a J1 visa, would this affect my ability to get an F1 (student visa) immeidately after? I ask this becasue I have heard that a J1 would prevent me from getting another visa for two years. Also, would it be possible to transition from the J1 to the F1 whilst in the USA? As in, completing my PTC and starting schooling straight after?

Thanks for any help, advice or opinions you may have,

Skip


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi Skip,

Who would be issuing your DS-2019 for the PTC (what's that?) program you are talking about? Depending on who issues it (among other things), you may be subject to the 212(e) requirement which requires you to spend at least two years IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY -- not just outside the US -- before you are eligible to switch to certain immigrant or transitional visas such as the H1B or green card.

You may switch to an F1 visa -- I believe you can change status whilst inside the US but you will not have an F1 visa stamp in your passport unless you leave the US and plan to return in F-1 status. You may find it easier to have an F-1 I-20 issued to you by your institution and leave and re-enter in F-1 status. I would talk to your university about this where you are planning to do your MBA. 

The big caveat here is that if you switch to an F-1 to start your degree, you won't be any LESS subject to the 212e requirement if you are subject to begin with. The only way to get out of it is either to spend your two years back home or apply for a waiver, which is long, arduous, certainly not guaranteed, and usually requires the help of an immigration attorney. Even if you get the MBA with your F-1 and get a fabulous job on OPT, you won't be able to switch to an H1B until you've met that 212e requirement.

I'd honestly think long and hard about coming over on a J-1 visa unless moving home for two years is in your plans. You may be fine, or you may be shooting yourself in the foot if your ultimate goal is to stay and work in the US on a more long-term visa. Again, back to the first question: who's issuing the DS-2019?


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## Skippy13 (Oct 1, 2008)

Hey Tiffani, 
thanks for your response and advice. Basically, PTC stands for professional training contract whereby a graduate can enter the USA on a J visa and stay for up to 18 months. Your right in saying that I would be subject to the 212(e) requirement which is something I had overlooked. Companies such as CIEE, IST etc provide sponsorship for this kind of visa. 

My origninal plan had been to enter on a J visa and stay for 18 months and also applying for MBA programs whilst out there. I would then transition into my MBA with the aim of securing a job and H visa upon graduation. Unfortunately, I had overlooked the 212 requirement and in light of this, I dont think entering the USA on a J visa would be the best way to do things. 

So my plans have changed. I now intend to do an MBA in two years when I will be 25 and will have several years of work experience behind me. It will also give me the opportunity to save as I am aware of work restrictions whilst studying. 

The question I have though is this.....would doing a masters program be a better way of staying in the USA? I say this becasue I have read that there is a 20,000 visa cap for H1 visas for students who have studied a masters in the USA. Simply, by doing a masters you arent lumped in with all others who are hoping for H1 visas. Can anyone shed more light on this?

Thanks,

Skip


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

a Master's degree will give you a higher "cap" that you'd be subject to (I believe the number is 20K extra as you said), so it would be beneficial for you to have a Master's or a PhD.

Likewise, if you decide to stay and work at a university, you wouldn't be subject to the cap at all unless things change at the congressional level 

If CIEE etc issue your DS-2019, you will almost certainly be subject to the 212e and getting a waiver for the 212e in that case would be extremely difficult. good call on rethinking your plans if your ultimate goal is to move to the US to complete the MBA and then stay on with the H1B. Keep in mind though, that even with a degree from the US and a job on OPT, there are no guarantees that your employer will be interested in filing for an H1B for you. The point of OPT is to gain experience, not a gateway to the H1B (I always had to throw that caveat in there to my students back home who became angry when they found out that the H1B wasn't a given!)


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## Skippy13 (Oct 1, 2008)

Thanks Tiff,
My thinking was that a masters degree would give me a greater chance of securing a H1B as I dont believe that cap is as over extnded as the regula H1B. Does this masters have to be gained in the USA or can it be an masters degree?

You mention working at a University, could you elaborate further?

I believe you are right about the 212e, I did some reading last night and its clear that I would have to stay out of the USA for 2 years....and this goes against my plan which is to use eductaion in the USA as a route to stay. 

I understand completely the caveat you mentioned with regards to employers not always being willing to sponsor a H1B....but I do believe that there are still opportunities to find a sponsor. Would you disagree? 

Thanks,

Skip


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

Skippy13 said:


> Thanks Tiff,
> My thinking was that a masters degree would give me a greater chance of securing a H1B as I dont believe that cap is as over extnded as the regula H1B. Does this masters have to be gained in the USA or can it be an masters degree?
> 
> You mention working at a University, could you elaborate further?
> ...



Hi Skip, yes, since the quota is higher for Master's and PhD recipients for the H1B, you would have an easier time getting it than if you simply had a Batchelor's degree (but of course, there are no guarantees). In fact, I remember a woman I worked with a couple years ago, the first year that the H1B had to start doing a lottery system, suggested that we (being the US govt) should only provide H1Bs for people who have at least a Master's because BA/BS students are a dime a dozen. Not that she had any power or influence whatsoever to push something like that in Congress, but I can't say I disagreed with her. 

Any Masters or PhD that is considered equivalent to a Masters or PhD in the US should make you eligible for the higher cap. The trick in that case is finding an employer who's willing to wait for you. That's where OPT is very convenient... you can work legally for a year and prove to your employer that you ARE worth waiting for if it comes to that. I saw it happen a lot when I was working over there with our stuents. They would have to take a month or two off between the expiration of their OPT and the start of their H1B, but they had already been trained and working for the company for a year so it was worth it to the company to just live with it that way. There are definitely opportunities to find a sponsor, but with the current economic climate in the US, I don't know how many companies are penny-pinching. But the US is the Land of Opportunity (haha!) but first you have to get there legally 

Universities (and possibly some other public-sector institutions but don't quote me on that and I have no idea which ones) are not subject to the H1B cap. If you got your Master's and your advisor was really blown away by your academic abilities and offered you a position as a research assistant (or any position that is commensurate with your level and field of study), if the university decided to sponsor you for an H1B -- keep in mind this happens more at the PhD level than the Master's level in practice -- then you would not be subject to the cap at all.


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## fMac (Mar 1, 2011)

*Master's degree*

Oops.


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