# Do your research!



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Time and again people ask for help on moving to Spain, and it is clear they have not done any research themselves on health cover, tax, schools, residency etc-all subjects on which information can be found online. Forums are helpful, but only for experiences and opinions;they should not be relied on for hard facts. the best thing to do, if you are moving to Spain is to consult the tax office, DWP, DVLA in the UK first, to see how it affects your unique situation. So many people think they can uproot their family and live in Spain just as they did in UK, then get a shock! They may not be entitled to benefits here, must satisfy residency rules, make tax declarations, be subject to the laws of Spain. Much of this info can be found before a huge mistake is made. Some may decide not to come here after research, but at least they will have not made an expensive mistake.Spain is not all that "Place in the Sun" portrays it-it can be stressful, and not a lifelong holiday. At last Spain is clamping down on those who live under the radar-for years it has lost money because of them.With the present economic climate, It may well be that staying in the UK is a better option.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Time and again people ask for help on moving to Spain, and it is clear they have not done any research themselves on health cover, tax, schools, residency etc-all subjects on which information can be found online. Forums are helpful, but only for experiences and opinions;they should not be relied on for hard facts. the best thing to do, if you are moving to Spain is to consult the tax office, DWP, DVLA in the UK first, to see how it affects your unique situation. So many people think they can uproot their family and live in Spain just as they did in UK, then get a shock! They may not be entitled to benefits here, must satisfy residency rules, make tax declarations, be subject to the laws of Spain. Much of this info can be found before a huge mistake is made. Some may decide not to come here after research, but at least they will have not made an expensive mistake.Spain is not all that "Place in the Sun" portrays it-it can be stressful, and not a lifelong holiday. At last Spain is clamping down on those who live under the radar-for years it has lost money because of them.With the present economic climate, It may well be that staying in the UK is a better option.


yep - that info can be found online - if you know what you're looking for & where to find it

surely asking questions on a forum of people who have made the move & are 'on the ground' is a useful - perhaps essential - part of any research??

it might be the beginning, the middle bit or the last bit of research - but certainly a legitimate part of it


I wish I'd known about forums like this when we were moving


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Research is what I am always advocating. When we started our planning, I don't think the forums were about to be able to use, or, at least I didn't find them, so for me it was all virgin territory and hard work to do it properly. But it was worth it.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I started researching at least a year before we bought, and two years or so before we moved.

I liked to think that I knew all there was to know by the time we got hear, but I was wrong of course. No amount of research is too much!

Forums were actually a very important part of that research because it pointed me in the right direction to delve deeper into the subjects I was researching

So forums are very important because if you take in what people who actually live here and then sort out the extraneous crap, then they can be invaluable


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> yep - that info can be found online - if you know what you're looking for & where to find it
> 
> surely asking questions on a forum of people who have made the move & are 'on the ground' is a useful - perhaps essential - part of any research??
> 
> ...


Hi - I agree with you, and this particular forum is, quite literally, a mine of information for anyone considering a move to Spain, as well as for those of us who've already relocated. As we're aware, just as in our home countries, laws here, at EU, National, Provincial and even local level are subject to change and it's so helpful, as a foreigner, to 'touch base' on this forum, to learn more and to share opinions with others here - there's a wealth of knowledge and experience to draw upon, which is hugely reassuring when faced with unfamiliar situations in a foreign country - even one which many of us now call 'home!'

However, I do wonder, sometimes - when coming across a first post from a self-styled 'newbie,' who's apparently sitting with a map of Spain on his/her lap, whilst requesting advice from this forum on where, exactly, to stick the pin, in the hope of being directed, along with his/her family (and pets) to their perfect Spanish idyll - why the poster hasn't felt able to undertake even a modicum of basic online browsing, beforehand!

IMO, it's entirely valid for any would-be expat. to invite informed opinions regarding a particular location, or to request info. when trying to choose between two or even several - perhaps with regard to specific needs. But, given the detailed info. and maps on Spain now freely available online, it's surely not unreasonable to expect that any aspirant expat. would have (at least) an idea as to which province would be their preference - and/or which type of terrain and weather conditions would suit, prior to posting? This forum could then begin to offer some really useful advice - even if that should lead to a rapid change of heart and the swift removal of that pin, LOL! 

Saludos,
GC


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> I started researching at least a year before we bought, and two years or so before we moved.


I started in 2001 and moved November 2008 but then my initial shortlist of countries including six possibles in three continents.



Stravinsky said:


> So forums are very important because if you take in what people who actually live here and then sort out* the extraneous crap*,


You've been reading *my* posts then!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

We didn't do any research at all in fact until we ended up here we didn't even know where we were going - could have been anywhere. 

13 years on we seem to be doing OK.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> We didn't do any research at all in fact until we ended up here we didn't even know where we were going - could have been anywhere.
> 
> 13 years on we seem to be doing OK.


There's a black sheep in every family!!

Seriously though, that's great! I expect there was an element of luck and other elements of open mindedness, hard work , "wisdom"...??? What would you say?

Also, would you actually recommend people come to Spain today without any plans in place? After all, it's a different country in some aspects to that which you came to 13 years ago, isn't it?

If you do recommend it, would you say it's the same for all people wanting to come here, or is it different depending on their economics/ family situation/ retired/ looking for work/ people with teens/ people with young children/ people with disabilities/ people with qualifications......


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There's a black sheep in every family!!
> 
> Seriously though, that's great! I expect there was an element of luck and other elements of open mindedness, hard work , "wisdom"...??? What would you say?
> 
> ...


Lots of luck, hard work, some cash behind us, somewhere to live (a boat), more luck, willingness to do anything (and the ability to do some), ability to get on with people and more luck.

It's a lot different now - I wouldn't do it now. 

I agree with the oft-quoted sentiment - don't come here unless you have the means to do it. 

It's a shame - it was fun back then - but it's gone.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We came here with about three months preparation. We were able to stay in my son's house until we found a suitable place. We knew the area from previous visits but looked around, inland and elsewhere, before deciding to stay about a five minute drive from where we started. Unfortunately for us, it was in one of the most expensive areas of the CdS......

We decided to leave the UK on Sptember 8th 2005.; On September 24th we booked a flight to Prague. The next day our Czech friend had found us a flat. We left the UK on December 19th, our furniture, goods and chattels arrived on December 21st. We moved to a large house one year later. On November 30th 2008 we left Prague at 9.00 a.m. in a mini-convoy and reached my son's house at around 6.00 p.m. on December 2nd 2008.

We thought we knew all about living in Prague as we had visited over four decades. Boy, were we wrong...Holidaying bears zero resemblance to full-time living.

Having dealt with Czech bureaucracy we found everything in Spain relatively straightforward. We made a mistake when we moved into a piso in a mainly British urb...not for us but very pleasant for those who like that sort of thing. We soon moved out.

We got help from this Forum but found out much of what we needed to do via the internet.
One thing that helped..when doing our financial calculations we worked on the basis of £1=1 euro. In August 2008 the rate was £1 -1.22 euros...but in December 2008 the rate was virtually parity so no unpleasant surprise there.

I'm wondering whether a person who intends to be an immigrant to Spain but has absolutely no idea of which region, let alone province, city, town or village they might prefer has really put enough thought into the project.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> We came here with about three months preparation. We were able to stay in my son's house until we found a suitable place. We knew the area from previous visits but looked around, inland and elsewhere, before deciding to stay about a five minute drive from where we started. Unfortunately for us, it was in one of the most expensive areas of the CdS......
> 
> We decided to leave the UK on Sptember 8th 2005.; On September 24th we booked a flight to Prague. The next day our Czech friend had found us a flat. We left the UK on December 19th, our furniture, goods and chattels arrived on December 21st. We moved to a large house one year later. On November 30th 2008 we left Prague at 9.00 a.m. in a mini-convoy and reached my son's house at around 6.00 p.m. on December 2nd 2008.
> 
> ...


I think much depends on the person's REAL reason(s) for moving and what his/her/their encumbrances are.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Lots of luck, hard work, some cash behind us, somewhere to live (a boat), more luck, willingness to do anything (and the ability to do some), ability to get on with people and more luck.
> 
> It's a lot different now - I wouldn't do it now.
> 
> ...


I thought it was important to make that point for the people who are looking at the forum "doing their research"


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## Nomad_uk (Oct 23, 2012)

Although the vast majority of people on this forum are coming from the UK, not all are - obviously there are Americans and Canadians, for example. In my own case, although British, I'd been out of the UK for several years, so information wasn't readily available. As an example, I've just registered with Social Security so I know I'm covered for health problems - but where do I find out about medical care - ie where is there a doctor, out here in the campo? I live in an area where there are very few expats; my immediate neighbour is Scottish as it turns out, but he's just had to go back to the UK for cancer treatment, so I can't ask him. Will the local ayuntamiento have a list of doctor's and addresses?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nomad_uk said:


> Although the vast majority of people on this forum are coming from the UK, not all are - obviously there are Americans and Canadians, for example. In my own case, although British, I'd been out of the UK for several years, so information wasn't readily available. As an example, I've just registered with Social Security so I know I'm covered for health problems - but where do I find out about medical care - ie where is there a doctor, out here in the campo? I live in an area where there are very few expats; my immediate neighbour is Scottish as it turns out, but he's just had to go back to the UK for cancer treatment, so I can't ask him. Will the local ayuntamiento have a list of doctor's and addresses?


I'm not sure if the ayto would, (although our ayto website does) but for sure the SS office where you got your SS number from would


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Nomad_uk said:


> Although the vast majority of people on this forum are coming from the UK, not all are - obviously there are Americans and Canadians, for example. In my own case, although British, I'd been out of the UK for several years, so information wasn't readily available. As an example, I've just registered with Social Security so I know I'm covered for health problems - but where do I find out about medical care - ie where is there a doctor, out here in the campo? I live in an area where there are very few expats; my immediate neighbour is Scottish as it turns out, but he's just had to go back to the UK for cancer treatment, so I can't ask him. Will the local ayuntamiento have a list of doctor's and addresses?


Go to your nearest village and ask for the Centro de salud (The health centre) - Spain isn't like the UK and even less like US/Canada. Here Drs are salaried and employed by the Health Authority (usually AC). It would help if you were more specific about where you are in Spain in your profile, you may find that there is somebody within a few kms of you who might be willing to show you the local ropes. Of course, you might not!


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## titania (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm a Frog ...... who has lived in UK for many years and is now in France. I started researching paradise in 2000 with my late husband, toured the world, scoured the Internet, but didn't find what we wanted. Then, after he died, I thought I would want to stay and root myself here, but the bohemian in me started to wake up. So I started researching again, travelling again. I've narrowed my choice to Spain and Portugal. Next stop is therefore in Portugal in a fortnight's time.

But honestly, I'm glad I found this forum. It's not just some of the practicalities that you all know about some, but the feel that you transmit from your respective areas. Saying that though, I wish someone would tell me where is paradise in Spain... I certainly know where I would not wish to go to, generally speaking, but not where to go...

I'll admit the matters of administration are rather an important item in my future choice, so yes, it's good to read you all through your successes and your disappointments. My research is also your forum. It's one thing to know where or how to get a NIE, the social security system, tax residence and the like, Internet, electricity, gas, water, thanks to you all.:clap2:

However, to me it's equally worthy knowing how much hassle, honesty/or not, corruption or laissez-faire attitudes, I will encounter. The more so as I truly hate paperwork, hate "big brothers" and my ideas revolve around "live happy, live hidden"....

So now good people, thou shall know where I'll land in a few months' time


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

titania said:


> I'm a Frog ...... who has lived in UK for many years and is now in France. I started researching paradise in 2000 with my late husband, toured the world, scoured the Internet, but didn't find what we wanted. Then, after he died, I thought I would want to stay and root myself here, but the bohemian in me started to wake up. So I started researching again, travelling again. I've narrowed my choice to Spain and Portugal. Next stop is therefore in Portugal in a fortnight's time.
> 
> But honestly, I'm glad I found this forum. It's not just some of the practicalities that you all know about some, but the feel that you transmit from your respective areas. Saying that though, I wish someone would tell me where is paradise in Spain... I certainly know where I would not wish to go to, generally speaking, but not where to go...
> 
> ...


The last time I heard Paradise was straight up, but the people who go there aren't too good at communicating...
Here's something philosophical for you
You don't find Paradise; you make it...


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You don't find Paradise; you make it...


Yes, but you need help to make it work


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes, but you need help to make it work


Of course you do!!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

titania said:


> I'm a Frog ...... who has lived in UK for many years and is now in France. I started researching paradise in 2000 with my late husband, toured the world, scoured the Internet, but didn't find what we wanted. Then, after he died, I thought I would want to stay and root myself here, but the bohemian in me started to wake up. So I started researching again, travelling again. I've narrowed my choice to Spain and Portugal. Next stop is therefore in Portugal in a fortnight's time.
> 
> But honestly, I'm glad I found this forum. It's not just some of the practicalities that you all know about some, but the feel that you transmit from your respective areas. Saying that though, I wish someone would tell me where is paradise in Spain... I certainly know where I would not wish to go to, generally speaking, but not where to go...
> 
> ...


What's paradise for you? My version of paradise seems to be a lot different from others. For example, we visited the Malaga area this fall and I could never do it - then again, there's many people on here who live there and love it.

What are you looking for?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


> What's paradise for you? My version of paradise seems to be a lot different from others. For example, we visited the Malaga area this fall and I could never do it - then again, there's many people on here who live there and love it.
> 
> What are you looking for?


How true. Tbh, my idea of the 'good life' is,basically,to live in Spain more or less as I did in the UK and Prague but with different surroundings and better weather.

My life was good when I was living in the UK and when I left most of the things that made it so either came with me - partner,books,music,relatively good health - or come here frequently,such as family and friends.

I don't like using terms such as 'paradise' or 'living the dream' as they seem to me to have connotations of dissatisfaction with one's present life and are completely subjective and therefore not easy to explain to others.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

titania said:


> I'm a Frog ...... who has lived in UK for many years and is now in France. I started researching paradise in 2000 with my late husband, toured the world, scoured the Internet, but didn't find what we wanted. Then, after he died, I thought I would want to stay and root myself here, but the bohemian in me started to wake up. So I started researching again, travelling again. I've narrowed my choice to Spain and Portugal. Next stop is therefore in Portugal in a fortnight's time.
> 
> But honestly, I'm glad I found this forum. It's not just some of the practicalities that you all know about some, but the feel that you transmit from your respective areas. Saying that though, I wish someone would tell me where is paradise in Spain... I certainly know where I would not wish to go to, generally speaking, but not where to go...
> 
> ...


This is really where the essential research comes in.

You can do all the research you wish on what house prices are like, the climate the economy, the landscape, the scenery, the cost of living, the costs of utilities, taxations, etc. but *the most important research* is to really work out what *you* are looking for. Note that this has nothing to do with what you are running away from.

The closing line on my e-mails until a short while ago (it still applies, I just no longer brag about it) was "We are living in a little bit of heaven right here on earth" and, for us, it is true. This to us is as close to paradise as we are ever likely to find after our previous one was spoilt by escalating crime and violence levels.

In other words, you have to understand *you* - a tall order, it is true, but until you do, you will always find it hard to settle in the place where you feel that you belong and are happy. 

I was born on the outskirts of a village where there was no such thing as 'wealth', everybody was more or less on the same social strata, it was wartime and, apart from one or two, nobody had any of the, then, modern must haves so there were none of the petty jealousies that drive the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality. Those that had, shared with those who had not, Everybody helped each other. There was a community spirit.

To me that was an ideal that was worth trying to regain. We considered a short list of six countries (including France and Portugal) on three continents before settling on Spain. We had identified the area that would suit us as far as the climate the economy, the scenery. We just needed to find the right village that would contain the right type of people. I knew, from experience, that it would have to be a village or very small town. Looking at history, the area in which the community we sought was going to, most likely, be in rural Andaucía where the poverty and deprivations wreaked upon the population over centuries by the _latifunda_ system would mean that the people would have developed the attitude of helping each other, of caring about their fellows and being content with their lot. That is just what we have - wonderful, warm, caring neighbours - we all rally round and help each other. We have nice scenery (Ok, so the rows and rows of olivos can be a little boring, but you learn to ignore them) and varied but interesting landscape, history on our doorstep (a place that saw a hundred or more years with the border between Moors and Christians switching back and forth). 

We don't have any land with our house so cannot grow our own produce. This means that we are the frequent recipients of the surplus produce of friends and neighbours. Gas stoves here typically have ovens that have two settings (off and on) but our oven has a thermostat so we can make cakes and cookies and this is the way we return the favour (often the cakes contains some of their own produce - carrot cake, kaki cake, zuccini bread, etc...). In addition, SWMBO and the suegra teach English and translate for other members of the village, in some cases for free or for a very low fee.

Another member of this forum, and in fact, who has posted on the thread, once commented that we do, indeed, seem to be living "the dream" and I think she was right. There are pictures of this village in my forum photo albums. However, enough of what amounted to our paradise, now you need to identify and find yours.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2013)

A very interesting discussion. I totally agree with Baldilocks in his comments about finding what's right for you, and Titania in saying one receives an impression about an area in the feedback from those who live there. 

We're in the process - actively looking but haven't made a decision yet. Our initial timetable was to be settled within 6 months of starting the process. Other things have intervened but it's clear that was WAYYYY too optimistic. Going more slowly is producing better results - no rushing from place to place because they are locations we've targeted, but we meander around Spain and have stumbled across some gems, whereas almost without exception we hated the places we specifically targeted.

So - research? It depends into what. You must IMHO do the research into the financial and beaurocratic aspects, even before you make a decision to relocate. Nothing, however, beats roaming the roads to find that ideal location.

We fly back to Spain tomorrow morning -


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