# The Food Nostalgia Thread



## NCas

So I read this article with the best and worst places as rated by expats. I'll link the Bloomberg article below. I didn't know that Mexico was so high up on the list. It makes me wonder if it's so popular then why is it still so difficult to find bagels and peanut butter here. 

The Best and Worst Countries to Live and Work In, According to Expats


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## Isla Verde

NCas said:


> So I read this article with the best and worst places as rated by expats. I'll link the Bloomberg article below. I didn't know that Mexico was so high up on the list. It makes me wonder if it's so popular then why is it still so difficult to find bagels and peanut butter here.
> 
> The Best and Worst Countries to Live and Work In, According to Expats


Because Mexicans don't give a damn about bagels or peanut butter!


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## citlali

I have no problem find peanut butter in Jalisco or Chiapas, bagels I do not look for them so all is well..


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> I have no problem find peanut butter in Jalisco or Chiapas, bagels I do not look for them so all is well..


I didn't eat peanut butter in the States, not one of my favorite foods. I do love bagels, though, but I have learned to live without them.


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## NCas

Isla Verde said:


> Because Mexicans don't give a damn about bagels or peanut butter!


There is a small bakery/cafe in San Miguel de Allende that does make fresh baked bagels. I was thrilled I had bumped into it, bought two 4 packs of bagels. I think if more places that offered them Mexicans might come around to giving them a shot. :fingerscrossed:


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## Isla Verde

NCas said:


> So I read this article with the best and worst places as rated by expats. I'll link the Bloomberg article below. I didn't know that Mexico was so high up on the list. It makes me wonder if it's so popular then why is it still so difficult to find bagels and peanut butter here.
> 
> The Best and Worst Countries to Live and Work In, According to Expats


Though I'm quite happy living in Mexico as a retired person, if I had to make a decent living I might not feel that way.


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## surabi

It's actually quite possible to make a decent living in Mexico. Depends on where in Mexico you live and what you have to offer in terms of business, product, or service.


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## joaquinx

Chedraui carries 3 or 4 brands of peanut butter. As for the reason Mexicans not caring for bagels is because you can't fold them.


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## TundraGreen

joaquinx said:


> Chedraui carries 3 or 4 brands of peanut butter. As for the reason Mexicans not caring for bagels is because you can't fold them.


A shop near me that sells maybe 50 different kinds of mole by the kilo from big bins has one bin of peanut butter. There is a molino (mill) near Mercado de la Cruz in Queretaro that also sells peanut butter the same way.


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## NCas

TundraGreen said:


> A shop near me that sells maybe 50 different kinds of mole by the kilo from big bins has one bin of peanut butter. There is a molino (mill) near Mercado de la Cruz in Queretaro that also sells peanut butter the same way.


That's interesting I used to go to the Mercado de la Cruz a lot and never saw any. Maybe this only happened recently, might be catching on. I actually used to buy de-shell peanuts from the mercado. I would then put them in a food processor and make my own peanut butter that way. I'm pretty proud of my home made peanut butter.


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## gringotim

NCas said:


> why is it still so difficult to find bagels and peanut butter here.


Maybe its a Tijuana thing, no problem in Puerto Vallarta


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## Zorro2017

Breakfast sausage can not be found in my state nor any canned chili.


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## joaquinx

Zorro2017 said:


> Breakfast sausage can not be found in my state nor any canned chili.


Costco stocks breakfast sausage sometimes. Canned chili is Tex-Mex and I love it with Fritos in a Frito-Chili Pie. :sorry:


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## ElPocho

Lox is expensive, cream cheese and lox go together. There are not enough people keeping Kosher, to make that combo successful. I doubt that a bagel place would be willing to put, beans, cream, carnitas and jalapenos in the bagel. I doubt you could find good bagels in a place like Casper Wyoming for example. 

Peanuts, they eat them, Japoneses, garrapiñadas, and in Mazapanes. 

When my son's went to a Jewish day care they could not have meat in their sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly was a big thing. Not a rural favorite, but urban places would have it.


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## lagoloo

Costco carries the Jones Farm breakfast sausages in their frozen section. Tasty and greasy, but no garbage in the ingredients. You can check it out on the company website. Used it for years until our local farmers' market acquired a sausage maker who makes lean breakfast sausages.

(Don't get Johnsonville's by mistake. The list of ingredients is appalling)


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## horseshoe846

I'm not sure I have ever had Lox - and I have certainly never looked for it. I know what a well made bagel can taste like - and I have never seen a freshly made bagel in Mexico. The best bagels we have had were from the freezer section at Costco made by Thomas - the same company that makes the english muffins. We also get Philadelphia cream cheese at Costco. Peanut butter can be found at Costco or Sam's.


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## ElPocho

horseshoe846 said:


> I'm not sure I have ever had Lox - and I have certainly never looked for it. I know what a well made bagel can taste like - and I have never seen a freshly made bagel in Mexico. The best bagels we have had were from the freezer section at Costco made by Thomas - the same company that makes the english muffins. We also get Philadelphia cream cheese at Costco. Peanut butter can be found at Costco or Sam's.


They have those Thomas bagels here in California at Costco. Not the best. Google "yoga mat bread", if the bread is rubbery, I suspect it.

Lox, (thin sliced smoked Salmon) combined with quality cream cheese, thin sliced red onions, tomatos and some capers on a freshly baked bagel is IMHO the way to eat a bagel.

I had never had a bagel or lox till I was like 30 and had been in the USA for over 4 years. 

But then I have been in Kali for over 30 years and I just had my first taco de suadero less than a month ago. In CDMX it's a staple food. And over 20% of Kali is Latino.


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## ElPocho

Thinking about that bagel made me realize that I'm going to miss it once in Mexico. 
When you go from one country to another that's what you miss, the foods. 
When I was a little kid, I moved to CDMX. I missed sweet tarts, root beer, licorice, bazooka bubble gum and juicy fruit gum. If somebody was coming from the states that was on my list.


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## ElPocho

Isla Verde said:


> citlali said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem find peanut butter in Jalisco or Chiapas, bagels I do not look for them so all is well..
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't eat peanut butter in the States, not one of my favorite foods. I do love bagels, though, but I have learned to live without them.
Click to expand...

Polanco? Be prepared to shell out some cash...


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## NCas

ElPocho said:


> Thinking about that bagel made me realize that I'm
> When you go from one country to another that's what you miss, the foods.


I remember when I saw in the news that Twinkies weren't going to be made or sold in the states anymore. Fortunately for us living in Mexico we still had Submarinos and Twankies (no joke) to fill that void. On occasion the local Waldos in central Mexico carry root beer. I don't recall the brand, but it wasn't bad.


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## chicois8

I am LOL, This has to be the first post on this website to completely disregard the title which was:
"Mexico is named one of the top places for expats" and even the original poster starts with not being able to find bagels and peanut butter which turned this post into a hard to find foods, the funny thing is the report which is linked only has only one mention of a food and that was Turkey......


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## NCas

You could make the argument that if bagels and peanut butter were more common in Mexico then it would be up higher on the list.


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> Lox is expensive, cream cheese and lox go together. There are not enough people keeping Kosher, to make that combo successful. I doubt that a bagel place would be willing to put, beans, cream, carnitas and jalapenos in the bagel. I doubt you could find good bagels in a place like Casper Wyoming for example.
> 
> Peanuts, they eat them, Japoneses, garrapiñadas, and in Mazapanes.
> 
> When my son's went to a Jewish day care they could not have meat in their sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly was a big thing. Not a rural favorite, but urban places would have it.


I love lox and bagels with cream cheese. After living here for ten years, I have learned to enjoy eating what I can find without much difficulty. So now for breakfast I often enjoy smoked salmon (a near cousin of lox) on pan de centeno with jocoque (you can easily find cream cheese in Mexico but health problems forbid it for me). By the way, many Jews (like me) who enjoy lox and bagels are anything but kosher!


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> Polanco? Be prepared to shell out some cash...


Polanco? What does Polanco have to do with anything?


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> They have those Thomas bagels here in California at Costco. Not the best. Google "yoga mat bread", if the bread is rubbery, I suspect it.
> 
> Lox, (thin sliced smoked Salmon) combined with quality cream cheese, thin sliced red onions, tomatos and some capers on a freshly baked bagel is IMHO the way to eat a bagel.


Thomas bagels, yech! 

Lox is filet of brined salmon, very similar to smoked salmon but not exactly the same thing. I can always find smoked salmon at Superama, though it is a bit pricey these days.


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## surabi

Isla Verde said:


> I love lox and bagels with cream cheese. After living here for ten years, I have learned to enjoy eating what I can find without much difficulty. So now for breakfast I often enjoy smoked salmon (a near cousin of lox) on pan de centeno with jocoque (you can easily find cream cheese in Mexico but health problems forbid it for me). By the way, many Jews (like me) who enjoy lox and bagels are anything but kosher!


Yeah, thinking only Jews who keep kosher enjoy lox is like thinking you have to be an Orthodox Catholic to enjoy tacos.


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## izzenhood

I googled "peanut butter forum" and was linked to this site. I wish folks would stay on topic. What does Mexico have to do with anything?


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## Isla Verde

izzenhood said:


> I googled "peanut butter forum" and was linked to this site. I wish folks would stay on topic. What does Mexico have to do with anything?


Staying on topic - what a drag!


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## LMtortugas

ElPocho said:


> Lox, (thin sliced smoked Salmon) combined with quality cream cheese, thin sliced red onions, tomatos and some capers on a freshly baked bagel is IMHO the way to eat a bagel.


momentarily thought I was back on Chicago's northside...


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## ElPocho

NCas said:


> I remember when I saw in the news that Twinkies weren't going to be made or sold in the states anymore. Fortunately for us living in Mexico we still had Submarinos and Twankies (no joke) to fill that void. On occasion the local Waldos in central Mexico carry root beer. I don't recall the brand, but it wasn't bad.


I think twinkies was purchased (saved) by Bimbo, who I believe also own Marinela. It was owned by a spanish family 40 years ago.

Somehow root beer is not a Mexican taste bud thing. I remember a medicine cal Iodex or something like that, it used to smell like root beer. I craved root beer, and buttermilk.

In Cuautla Morelos they used to have a place that sold "Cerveza de raiz" I think is was sarsaparilla, not root beer and it had no carbonation, an acquired taste, it was the closest I could get. I ended up liking it.


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## ElPocho

Isla Verde said:


> Thomas bagels, yech!
> 
> Lox is filet of brined salmon, very similar to smoked salmon but not exactly the same thing. I can always find smoked salmon at Superama, though it is a bit pricey these days.


Luxury food for the average mexican. It never existed 40 years ago.


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## ElPocho

Isla Verde said:


> Polanco? What does Polanco have to do with anything?


Polanco is (or was) the jewish neighborhood. If there are any fresh bagels baked in CDMX, they would be in Polanco. Just a guess.  If they do exist you would have to pay a lot...


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## ElPocho

LMtortugas said:


> momentarily thought I was back on Chicago's northside...


You really want to go back think a Kielbasa sausage with sauerkraut and guilden mustard. 

which brings us to what the OP poster was wondering - why the food didn't follow the mass of ex-pats.

IMHO
Be prepared to leave the foods and tastes of your country, you will find yourself craving a bagel, a specific brand of peanut butter, a diet soda.


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## ElPocho

ElPocho said:


> Polanco is (or was) the jewish neighborhood. If there are any fresh bagels baked in CDMX, they would be in Polanco. Just a guess.  If they do exist you would have to pay a lot...


Looks like I was wrong.... Nothing in Polanco.

https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=bagels&find_loc=Polanco,+México,+D.F.


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## citlali

Many of the Jews in Mexico are orthodox sephardim so bagels may not be number one on their list. I never had bagels until I came to the States and we lived in an area in Paris that had a lot of Jews and Moslems ...


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## TurtleToo

Good call on the name change of rhe thread, Ncas! Such a common sense solution!

.


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## NCas

I didn't change the name TurtleToo I swear. I can't believe my comment on beagles and peanut butter would go this far.


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## TurtleToo

NCas said:


> I didn't change the name TurtleToo I swear. I can't believe my comment on beagles and peanut butter would go this far.


Ah! Must have been one of our clever moderators, then!

.


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## Anonimo

I can get decent, even crunchy peanut butter at the Pátzcuaro Bodega Aurrerá.


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## Anonimo

With the guidance of an experienced friend, I recently cured two full fillets of Alaskan Wild Salmon as gravlax. It's not very difficult to do.


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## Anonimo

ElPocho said:


> You really want to go back think a Kielbasa sausage with sauerkraut and guilden mustard.
> 
> which brings us to what the OP poster was wondering - why the food didn't follow the mass of ex-pats.
> 
> IMHO
> Be prepared to leave the foods and tastes of your country, you will find yourself craving a bagel, a specific brand of peanut butter, a diet soda.


"Kiolbassy Brand" Smoked Sausage, at the Morelia Costco. Great stuff! Look for it where you are.


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## surabi

I don't know where bagels originated, but they seem to be an American Jewish thing-I lived in Israel back when I was a teenager and there weren't any bagels there.


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## Isla Verde

surabi said:


> I don't know where bagels originated, but they seem to be an American Jewish thing-I lived in Israel back when I was a teenager and there weren't any bagels there.


Bagels are an essential part of Ashkenazi Jewish cuisine and orginated in Poland. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel

Since Israel is in the Middle East and many of her citizens are Sephardic and Mizrahi
Jews, their cuisines are based on those cultures, hence the scarcity of bagels. I can't imagine, though, that there are no bagels to be found anywhere in Israel. When did you live in Israel?


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## Anonimo

Googling in the small hours, I found this site: New York Deli & Bagel – El sabor que nos une

Here's a listing of supermarkets where they are available. ¿Dónde lo compro? – New York Deli & Bagel


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## TundraGreen

Anonimo said:


> Googling in the small hours, I found this site: New York Deli & Bagel – El sabor que nos une
> 
> Here's a listing of supermarkets where they are available. ¿Dónde lo compro? – New York Deli & Bagel


I am sorry, but if the only bagels I can get are packaged or frozen, I would rather do without. Maybe I was spoiled when I lived near the Bagel Works in Palo Alto, California. They made real bagels, not the sweetened, puffed up imitations made by Einstein Bagels and chains like them. And when you bought them from the Bagel Works they were only a few minutes out of the oven. New York may do them better, but I have never lived in New York.


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## ojosazules11

TundraGreen said:


> I am sorry, but if the only bagels I can get are packaged or frozen, I would rather do without. Maybe I was spoiled when I lived near the Bagel Works in Palo Alto, California. They made real bagels, not the sweetened, puffed up imitations made by Einstein Bagels and chains like them. And when you bought them from the Bagel Works they were only a few minutes out of the oven. New York may do them better, but I have never lived in New York.


I haven't had authentic New York bagels, so I can't compare, but my favourites are Montreal bagels, which are handmade and baked in a wood fired oven. I've bought them from one of the iconic bakeries in Montreal where you can see them being made start to finish and, like you mention, buy them warm, fresh out of the oven. So delicious. 

Although I like both bagels and peanut butter, their availability would never be a factor for me in choosing where to live...


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## lagoloo

I agree that it's not a factor in choosing a home base. 

I find myself being amused by folks who move to a foreign country, but who have trouble with accepting that some of their favorite foods, clothes, and other things aren't going to be available. Some take shopping trips back to the U.S. and come home with the things they can't find here. One foot is in Mexico and the other back NOB. IMHO, that is not the path to contentment with their new lives.
I like bagels, but had more than enough peanut butter sandwiches as a poor grad student, so I can live just fine without it. When I first moved to Mexico thirteen years ago, I expected to dine on Mexican food, whatever it turned out to be and was surprised and delighted to see how many other options were increasingly available. Here in the Lake Chapala area, a local Mexican entrepreneur is making a fine living from a "supermarket" crammed with all those foods that expats miss, from peanut butter to SPAM (would you believe whole shelves of the latter). The funniest thing of all is two facing shelves; one with Campbells Soups made in the USA and the other with Campbells Soups made in Mexico. The USA group is considerably more pricey, but the Mexican kind tastes better, according to some. Go figure.

Walmart moved into the area several years ago and some thought that would drive the local l"supermarket" out of business. What really happened was that the Mexican family got even more savvy and started bringing in the expats' favorite foods from the Costco store over the hill in Guadalajara. End result: both the locals and the expats shop at both places and everybody's prospering. Life is good.


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## joaquinx

lagoloo said:


> I find myself being amused by folks who move to a foreign country, but who have trouble with accepting that some of their favorite foods, clothes, and other things aren't going to be available. Some take shopping trips back to the U.S. and come home with the things they can't find here. One foot is in Mexico and the other back NOB. IMHO, that is not the path to contentment with their new lives.


There are a few expats who moved not to Mexico, but to a cheaper place where they, for the first time, can hire a housekeeper and a gardener. This permits them to live the life that they believe they deserved. They need their tv stations from NOB along with the foods.


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## horseshoe846

joaquinx said:


> There are a few expats who moved not to Mexico, but to a cheaper place where they, for the first time, can hire a housekeeper and a gardener. This permits them to live the life that they believe they deserved. They need their tv stations from NOB along with the foods.


I just finished my lunch of tacos with cecina, black beans, guacamole, shredded cheese and green sauce - while I watched the Hurricane Irma coverage on CNN 

Now that the rains from Katia seem to have paused I might mow the lawn - or perhaps I'll let the gardener mow the lawn on Tuesday...

Edit : I was just remembering when I was a kid. My grandfather - who had emigrated from Germany - had a radio which must have had 10 or so bands - which allowed him to listen to the news in Germany - from New Jersey.


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## lagoloo

My immigrant forebears were big on adjusting: favorite shout to the kids: "SPEAK ENGLISH !!"
...and so they did, prospering in the new world.


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## horseshoe846

lagoloo said:


> My immigrant forebears were big on adjusting: favorite shout to the kids: "SPEAK ENGLISH !!"
> ...and so they did, prospering in the new world.


One of the greatest joys in life for my grandparents was the German Club.


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## TurtleToo

lagoloo said:


> I agree that it's not a factor in choosing a home base.
> 
> I find myself being amused by folks who move to a foreign country, but who have trouble with accepting that some of their favorite foods, clothes, and other things aren't going to be available. Some take shopping trips back to the U.S. and come home with the things they can't find here. One foot is in Mexico and the other back NOB. IMHO, that is not the path to contentment with their new lives.


While I agree with the overall and larger premise, I also know that there are times when a familiar taste of something from another time or place can be very sweet.

.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I am sorry, but if the only bagels I can get are packaged or frozen, I would rather do without. Maybe I was spoiled when I lived near the Bagel Works in Palo Alto, California. They made real bagels, not the sweetened, puffed up imitations made by Einstein Bagels and chains like them. And when you bought them from the Bagel Works they were only a few minutes out of the oven. New York may do them better, but I have never lived in New York.


You don't have to live in NYC to get "real" bagels. Any place with a sizeable Jewish population (like Philadelphia or Chicago) will also do. When I lived in Madison, Wisconsin, where the main campus of the UW is located, I could get wonderfu,l freshly-made bagels, hot from the oven whenever I wanted. Though the Jewish population of the city is small, there were quite a few Jewish students in attendance. I was told that the owners of the local bagel shop actually moved to NYC for a time to learn how to make the real thing. When they returend, they set up shop, so to speak, and I could have a bagel with cream cheese whenever I wanted!

Frozen bagels are fine, if you freeze them yourself! That's what I did. But you have to buy them fresh and rush them to the freezer as soon as possible. At my parents' house, my father was the one in charge of the bagels. He even had a special bagel holder, so he could cut them in half before freezing them.


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## horseshoe846

Isla Verde said:


> You don't have to live in NYC to get "real" bagels. Any place with a sizeable Jewish population (like Philadelphia or Chicago) will also do. When I lived in Madison, Wisconsin, where the main campus of the UW is located, I could get wonderfu,l freshly-made bagels, hot from the oven whenever I wanted. Though the Jewish population of the city is small, there were quite a few Jewish students in attendance. I was told that the owners of the local bagel shop actually moved to NYC for a time to learn how to make the real thing. When they returend, they set up shop, so to speak, and I could have a bagel with cream cheese whenever I wanted!
> 
> Frozen bagels are fine, if you freeze them yourself! That's what I did. But you have to buy them fresh and rush them to the freezer as soon as possible. At my parents' house, my father was the one in charge of the bagels. He even had a special bagel holder, so he could cut them in half before freezing them.


I worked for a company in Ft Lauderdale which had a four story building with a kitchen on each floor. Every Friday morning they had 2 large bags of fresh bagels and lox/cream cheese delivered to each kitchen.

Edit : several of the officers of the company were Jewish.


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## surabi

Isla Verde said:


> Bagels are an essential part of Ashkenazi Jewish cuisine and orginated in Poland.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel
> 
> Since Israel is in the Middle East and many of her citizens are Sephardic and Mizrahi
> Jews, their cuisines are based on those cultures, hence the scarcity of bagels. I can't imagine, though, that there are no bagels to be found anywhere in Israel. When did you live in Israel?


Thanks for the education, Isla Verde (I could have looked it up online, but was being lazy). Lived in Israel 1967-69.


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> Luxury food for the average mexican. It never existed 40 years ago.


I doubt if the average Mexican even knows what smoked salmon is. Mexico is different in so many ways (good and bad) from the way it was even 20 years ago!


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> Polanco is (or was) the jewish neighborhood. If there are any fresh bagels baked in CDMX, they would be in Polanco. Just a guess.  If they do exist you would have to pay a lot...


While there may still be Jews living in Polanco these days, the vast majority have moved far to the west to places like Interlomas. Actually, an American friend of mine who lives in Oaxaca and visits the CDMX on a regular basis discovered this great bagel place located in Colonia Roma. Its name, La Beyglería, of course! She says they do sell the real thing. I just checked their website and learned they are moving to a new location. Once they've settled into their new digs, I intend to visit them and sample their wares.


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## Isla Verde

TurtleToo said:


> Ah! Must have been one of our clever moderators, then!


'Twas I, your friendly forum moderator.  Glad you approve!


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## horseshoe846

Isla Verde said:


> While there may still be Jews living in Polanco these days, the vast majority have moved far to the west to places like Interlomas. Actually, an American friend of mine who lives in Oaxaca and visits the CDMX on a regular basis discovered this great bagel place located in Colonia Roma. Its name, La Beyglería, of course! She says they do sell the real thing. I just checked their website and learned they are moving to a new location. Once they've settled into their new digs, I intend to visit them and sample their wares.


We have been to a Jewish deli in Polanco called Kleins. It was ok. We went for corned beef on rye sandwiches. Since - we have found decent corned beef at Costco. Rye we have not found - but I have gotten used to brown multi-gran bread.


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## Isla Verde

ojosazules11 said:


> I haven't had authentic New York bagels, so I can't compare, but my favourites are Montreal bagels, which are handmade and baked in a wood fired oven. I've bought them from one of the iconic bakeries in Montreal where you can see them being made start to finish and, like you mention, buy them warm, fresh out of the oven. So delicious.
> 
> Although I like both bagels and peanut butter, their availability would never be a factor for me in choosing where to live...


I have read a lot about the Jewish food scene in Montreal. Maybe it's time for a return visit to that charming city.


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## Isla Verde

surabi said:


> Thanks for the education, Isla Verde (I could have looked it up online, but was being lazy). Lived in Israel 1967-69.


You're welcome!


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## lagoloo

Newsflash from the Lake Chapala area: Emma's Deli has opened in Ajijic, with the best matzo ball soup you could wish for. Run by a young Mexican couple: Jewish? who knows? but the selection of sandwiches is sinfully good, too, and the soft New York show tunes in the background are nice.
Small place near the Lake Chapala Society.


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## horseshoe846

lagoloo said:


> Newsflash from the Lake Chapala area: Emma's Deli has opened in Ajijic, with the best matzo ball soup you could wish for. Run by a young Mexican couple: Jewish? who knows? but the selection of sandwiches is sinfully good, too, and the soft New York show tunes in the background are nice.
> Small place near the Lake Chapala Society.


So is Lake Chapala about the closest you can come to leaving the US without leaving the US ? We have never been there - and do not have any immediate plans to do so.

Recently - in our area - someone asked about dental work on the local expat forum. One solution suggested "i have a friend that rents private jets and can fly you to the usa, top notch dentist, fly you back for about $25000 usd. not sure what the dentist will charge but its a high end option. "


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## lagoloo

horseshoe846 said:


> So is Lake Chapala about the closest you can come to leaving the US without leaving the US ? We have never been there - and do not have any immediate plans to do so.
> 
> Recently - in our area - someone asked about dental work on the local expat forum. One solution suggested "i have a friend that rents private jets and can fly you to the usa, top notch dentist, fly you back for about $25000 usd. not sure what the dentist will charge but its a high end option. "


I assume your tongue was firmly in your cheek when you posted, si?

However, it is true that for people who don't want to go live in a Mexican village and do want many of the comforts of the USA, the Lake Chapala area fills the bill with access to excellent medical care both locally and certainly in Guadalajara. For retirees, this is important. There is also everything one could need in Guadalajara, less than a hour away.

Some folks have no faith in Mexican medical care and actually sign up for a "Medivac" policy which will take them to the U.S. for care. I don't know about dental, but there seem to be many U.S. expats heading to Mexico for much less expensive dental care than they can get in the U.S.

I haven't heard of any private jets charging fees like that....only heard about the companies selling "Medivac" policies.....for what seemed reasonable enough costs. The "catch" there is that they won't take you anywhere until you've been "stabilized"; in Mexico of course.

There seems to be a reasonably satisfactory symbiotic relationship between the Mexican population of this area (which vastly outnumbers the expats) and the expats from the northlands. More patrons for services all the way from assisted living to high end chef work and everything in between.

It is, however, *nothing* like living in the USA, as newbies quickly discover and thus don't last over a year before heading back "home". This is for reasons more complex than this thirteen year resident (who never goes north) can explain. This is perfectly exemplified when dealing with traffic. Chuckle.


----------



## Zorro2017

After years of living in different parts of Mexico Chapala would be on the bottom of my list. Spend a little time reading the forums there and just try to glean a little truth out of them if you can stand the negativity.

A polluted lake that you can't enjoy, the forums are controlled by people who seem to have a monetary interest in the sales of property, you can't even report crime on one of the forums, why is this? Are people considering moving there not deserving of the truth or do real estate sales outweigh the safety of expats? 


If a person wants to retire in America, they should do so and stop trying so hard to make Mexico into America.

chapala.com Web Board


----------



## lagoloo

If you think you are getting the "truth" about what's going on in that area, or what the normal expats living there are like from looking at Chapala.com, you're getting a big dose of "fake news".
Inside Lakeside is more real, and is not sponsored by a real estate company. Bad news is reported on the "crime" thread. You do need to be a member to read that.
The people who want to make Mexico into "America" post on Chapala.com and never, ever quit their beetching. It's always the same people, except when a newbie joins them.

I'm enjoying the lake. I don't need to swim in it or drink the water. It's a beautiful lake, regardless of any pollution.
I don't need to associate with negative people. There are plenty of positive ones.

Unless you've lived there yourself, you are in no position to pass judgment on a place.


----------



## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> Newsflash from the Lake Chapala area: Emma's Deli has opened in Ajijic, with the best matzo ball soup you could wish for. Run by a young Mexican couple: Jewish? who knows? but the selection of sandwiches is sinfully good, too, and the soft New York show tunes in the background are nice.
> Small place near the Lake Chapala Society.


What kind of bread do they use for the sandwiches? Any bagels on the menu? As you can tell, I'm a very bread-centric kind of eater!


----------



## lagoloo

I've only been there once but the next time I'll check for bagels and let you know!
They are using rye bread. Good kind.


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## Isla Verde

Zorro2017 said:


> If a person wants to retire in America, they should do so and stop trying so hard to make Mexico into America.


¡Absolutamente de acuerdo, Z!


----------



## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> I'm enjoying the lake. I don't need to swim in it or drink the water. It's a beautiful lake, regardless of any pollution.
> I don't need to associate with negative people. There are plenty of positive ones.
> 
> Unless you've lived there yourself, you are in no position to pass judgment on a place.


A few years ago, I spent a week in Chapala/Ajijic. I had a lovely time, partly because it was over the Día de muertos holiday, which both towns celebrate in style, Mexican style, of course! I don't swim or engage in other aquatic activities, but I do love spending time near large bodies of water, whether they be lakes or the ocean. I took lots of walks along the lakeshore and lots of pictures with my camera.


----------



## citlali

I love the lake and we walk along it a lot, as Isla Verde says it is nice to have a boy of water nearby.
Some locals swim in it and survive it , they also eat the fish and survive it so yes it is polluted but it is not deadly..It is large enough to help the local climate so that is good enough for me , it does not get as hot or cold as Guadalajara and some of the views here are magnificent. 
No matter how many foreigners there are, the towns are Mexican towns, it is interesting to me that many of the Mexican visitors love it and many would like to live here but the foreigners especially from up north are putting it down,
I rarely speak English while down here and learned Spanish here so if you cannot do that you are hanging out in the wrong part of town.

I go back and forth from areas where there are no foreigners to an area with many foreigners and that is a culture shock every time, one place is not better than an other , it is just different.
This time I spent two solid months barely hearing Spanish, let alone English and I am happy to be back here where I can find all kinds of goodies I .. handmade tortillas are nice but not so much when you spend hours in the morning making them, caldo de pollo o res, frijoles, chiles, eggs and pozol( not pozole) for breakfast are nice but it is nice to get a variety as well.. no place is perfect..


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## Zorro2017

As I said, Chapala has a couple of forums, join them and you will get a pulse of what the people there care about and what they are like. I have belonged to four other forums according to what part of Mexico we were in at the time or where we were considering moving to. I found the Chapala forums extremely unpleasant. 

After living in an entirely expat community we moved out where there are no expats at all. 

To each his/her own, give me the silence of the mountains any day.


----------



## ojosazules11

Isla Verde said:


> ¡Absolutamente de acuerdo, Z!


Recuérdate de las reglas del foro, mi amiga. Inglés por favor. (Es broma.) 

_Trans.: Remember the forum rules, my friend. English please. (Just kidding.) _


----------



## ojosazules11

TurtleToo said:


> While I agree with the overall and larger premise, I also know that there are times when a familiar taste of something from another time or place can be very sweet.
> 
> .


I agree, Turtle. I don't have much of a sweet tooth, but one of my favourite candies growing up were Jolly Rancher Watermelon Stix. When I moved to Canada in my early 20's, they had other Jolly Rancher flavours, but not watermelon. Every time I went back to the US to visit, I would stock up on the watermelon JRs. 

And now every time I go to Mexico, my kids ask me to bring back Mexican candies, especially Pelón Pelo Ricos. The flavour of Mexican candies are part of their childhood "taste memories" (and some of their Canadian friends, because they would always share).


----------



## lagoloo

Isla Verde said:


> A few years ago, I spent a week in Chapala/Ajijic. I had a lovely time, partly because it was over the Día de muertos holiday, which both towns celebrate in style, Mexican style, of course! I don't swim or engage in other aquatic activities, but I do love spending time near large bodies of water, whether they be lakes or the ocean. I took lots of walks along the lakeshore and lots of pictures with my camera.


One of the great things about Mexico is the variety of living options available. If you want an isolated mountain location, it's there for you. If you want to be actively involved in a community, it's there, too, along with everything in between. There's no point being negative about other people's choices: what's "good" is what works for you.

One of the things I like best about living in the Lake Chapala area is that there are interest groups ranging from an active kayaking club (yes, using that "polluted lake" weekly) to an art association with over 150 members, several book clubs catering to different tastes, and even several ladies luncheon clubs for those more sociable than I.
There's a great French saying about people and their choices, but we're supposed to speak English on here!


----------



## Zorro2017

I can't believe that I left Texas with only one can of Tony Chacheries spice.


----------



## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> After years of living in different parts of Mexico Chapala would be on the bottom of my list. Spend a little time reading the forums there and just try to glean a little truth out of them if you can stand the negativity.
> 
> A polluted lake that you can't enjoy, the forums are controlled by people who seem to have a monetary interest in the sales of property, you can't even report crime on one of the forums, why is this? Are people considering moving there not deserving of the truth or do real estate sales outweigh the safety of expats?
> 
> 
> If a person wants to retire in America, they should do so and stop trying so hard to make Mexico into America.
> 
> chapala.com Web Board


I agree, I'd also like to point out that those who don't adjust are also the most likely to get overcharged. If you live in a bubble, you will interact by those that feed off (and sometimes prey) off) the bubble.
The bubble is a mini economical system.

IMHO an example of the bubble is the Cancun area, some emergency medical services are becoming predatorial etc. 

You want your bagels? Live in an urban area, or find a nice little bubble.

Has anyone seen the movie Zardoz?


----------



## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> I can't believe that I left Texas with only one can of Tony Chacheries spice.


I'n stocking up on paprika and some spices....


----------



## Zorro2017

ElPocho said:


> I agree, I'd also like to point out that those who don't adjust are also the most likely to get overcharged. If you live in a bubble, you will interact by those that feed off (and sometimes prey) off) the bubble.
> The bubble is a mini economical system.
> 
> IMHO an example of the bubble is the Cancun area, some emergency medical services are becoming predatorial etc.
> 
> You want your bagels? Live in an urban area, or find a nice little bubble.
> 
> Has anyone seen the movie Zardoz?


This particular bubble has a lot of problems, home burglaries are on the rise, a home invasion in which a 84 year old man and a 72 year old woman were killed. He was bludgeoned and she was stabbed, the car was stolen, etc.

Two Canadians reported murdered in Mexican retiree community Ajijic | CTV News

The local forum makes it plain that they are owned by a real estate company that sells as well as rents homes, they also forbid reporting or discussing crime on their forum for obvious reasons.* They did make an exception with the double homicide though.*

http://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?/topic/48880-la-florstea-couple-murdered/

There are other forums that will tell the truth like Mexconnect if crime is an important factor on choosing your new location.

MexConnect.com Forums: Areas: Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region: Crime In Ajijic &; Lake Chapala Area??


----------



## Zorro2017

ElPocho said:


> I'n stocking up on paprika and some spices....


Tony Chacheries, Slap Yo Momma and Chili powder also.


----------



## Isla Verde

ojosazules11 said:


> Recuérdate de las reglas del foro, mi amiga. Inglés por favor. (Es broma.)
> 
> _Trans.: Remember the forum rules, my friend. English please. (Just kidding.) _


I've been waiting for a comment like yours to show up, Ojos!


----------



## horseshoe846

Isla Verde said:


> I've been waiting for a comment like yours to show up, Ojos!


Personally - I wish all of these conversations were in Spanish... (I need the practice).


----------



## surabi

ojosazules11 said:


> I agree, Turtle. I don't have much of a sweet tooth, but one of my favourite candies growing up were Jolly Rancher Watermelon Stix. When I moved to Canada in my early 20's, they had other Jolly Rancher flavours, but not watermelon. Every time I went back to the US to visit, I would stock up on the watermelon JRs.
> 
> And now every time I go to Mexico, my kids ask me to bring back Mexican candies, especially Pelón Pelo Ricos. The flavour of Mexican candies are part of their childhood "taste memories" (and some of their Canadian friends, because they would always share).


You might want to Google search the extremely high levels of lead found in Mexican candy.


----------



## Zorro2017

surabi said:


> You might want to Google search the extremely high levels of lead found in Mexican candy.


Get ready Surabi, they crucified me when I mentioned radiation and arsenic in the water in the state of Guanajuato. There are some here that get really disturbed when you report anything negative, even if it is true. My wife loves her ceramic, lead painted cookware which is the main source of exposure to lead in Mexico.

I can hear it now, 

"Do you live in Mexico City?" 

"Do you eat this candy?"

"Keep this doom and gloom away!"

Then they will attack the publication calling it a "******" source.

Just sayin.


----------



## ojosazules11

surabi said:


> You might want to Google search the extremely high levels of lead found in Mexican candy.


Thanks, surabi. This was not even on my radar - I never would have thought of tamarind or chiles as a source of lead. Lead glazed pottery, yes, but not candy. 

Fortunately a Google search shows that the 2 kinds I most buy for my kids are on the safe "lead-free" list: Pelon Pelo Rico and Pulparindo. 
http://www.environmentalhealth.org/images/PDF/Lead-Free%20Candy%20flier%20for%20organizers-FINAL2.pdf

Here's a link to an article in Spanish which named a few of the worst offenders. I'm glad I didn't buy the Tutsi Pops. I'm going to track down the full list, so I don't inadvertently buy any with lead. Or I'll just stick with Pelon Pelo Ricos.

Detectan altas concentraciones de plomo en dulces mexicanos

Thanks, again. I'm also going to let my stepson and daughter-in-law in México know, as well as my nieces with young kids, so they know which candies to avoid.


----------



## ElPocho

surabi said:


> Thanks for the education, Isla Verde (I could have looked it up online, but was being lazy). Lived in Israel 1967-69.


They did not even have fresh coffee back then. Old timers (>40) will prefer instant coffee to the real stuff. "Elite Coffe"


----------



## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> This particular bubble has a lot of problems, home burglaries are on the rise, a home invasion in which a 84 year old man and a 72 year old woman were killed. He was bludgeoned and she was stabbed, the car was stolen, etc.
> 
> Two Canadians reported murdered in Mexican retiree community Ajijic | CTV News
> 
> The local forum makes it plain that they are owned by a real estate company that sells as well as rents homes, they also forbid reporting or discussing crime on their forum for obvious reasons.* They did make an exception with the double homicide though.*
> 
> La Florstea Couple Murdered - Ajijic/Chapala/Guadalajara - Chapala.com Webboard
> 
> There are other forums that will tell the truth like Mexconnect if crime is an important factor on choosing your new location.
> 
> MexConnect.com Forums: Areas: Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region: Crime In Ajijic &; Lake Chapala Area??


To "bubble" or not to "bubble", that is the question...

we both agree on the answer, but that's where we feel more comfortable, for us it feels more real


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## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> Tony Chacheries, Slap Yo Momma and Chili powder also.


I don't cook cajun, hence no slap yo mama. I make my own rub, google "magic dust" rub recipe.
If I had to take a pre-made rub it would be "The Salt Lick". That is good.

Another thing to take would be "pink salt"


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## Anonimo

IMO, pink salt is pretty, and that's the only advantage over ordinary white salt. A Morelia friend has pink Himalayan Salt in a grinder on her dining room table. I think she bought it at the Morelia Costco. (I've seen it there.)


----------



## Zorro2017

ElPocho said:


> I don't cook cajun, hence no slap yo mama. I make my own rub, google "magic dust" rub recipe.
> If I had to take a pre-made rub it would be "The Salt Lick". That is good.
> 
> Another thing to take would be "pink salt"


Why sugar is used in rubs or BBQ sauce is beyond me. Tony Chachere's is a pretty good all around spice for beef as well as chicken. My wife's family is all from Mexico City so they love it when I BBQ, make homemade chili or hot wings.

Rubbing chicken breasts down with salt and letting it soak in for 1/2 hour makes them more juicy as they tend to hold the moisture in. 

We made out like a bandit at Walmart. We saw BBQ pits on display for 1/2 price. I passed on the deal but then went back 2 days later. The last one was on display and it had a small dent on the lower shelf and was missing the small grill on the side burner. I got it for a steal when I pointed these things out. Took it apart right there in the doorway and loaded it. It is 1/2 wood and 1/2 propane which is really good. I removed the dent with pliers and the round grill from my old pit fit the side burner.

I marinate ribs for at least an hour in the fridge then smoke them up real good on the charcoal side with wet wood chips for an hour, then cover them in foil and cook them low and slow on the propane side for another 1-2 hours. My wife goes nuts, they just don't sell food like this here.

We got in a cab once and asked for Italian food, the driver took us to "Wings Army."


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## Anonimo

*¡Pimentón!*



ElPocho said:


> I'n stocking up on paprika and some spices....


Paprika is easy to find in Mexico. It's called "Pimentón". It even is available as sweet (dulce) or hot (picante). Some, usually a Spanish import, is smoked. Fantastic stuff. look for "Pimentón de la Vera". That's paprika from a designated region of Spain. You would find it in better shops catering to the gourmet trade. You probably won't find it in your local tienda de abarrotes (Mom 'n Pop little general store.)


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## Anonimo

Mexico is neither the United States nor Canada. It has its own, distinct culture and cuisine. So some products to which you are accustomed to getting back home, "NOB", may not be available here. However, this is constantly changing, with international trade on the increase. For instance, we can now find two brands of peanut butter, (one is Crunchy!), in our Bodega Aurrerá supermercado. Now, is that progress, or what? (I don't know; you tell me.)

Your kids, if you have them at home, will be gleeful now that their favorite sugar-laden breakfast cereal is available here on store shelves.

If you have or sign up for a Costco membership, you'll find all sorts of NOB stuff. Costco Mexico is like an upmarket PX for expats. Note that you are probably paying a premium for these old favorite products.

Wow! I saw two or three varieties of U.S. branded pretzels at the Morelia Costco last week. I could hardly resist, but I did.

The U.S. State Department might consider opening Consular Agencies in Mexican Costcos.

That's all from me today.


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## ElPocho

Anonimo said:


> IMO, pink salt is pretty, and that's the only advantage over ordinary white salt. A Morelia friend has pink Himalayan Salt in a grinder on her dining room table. I think she bought it at the Morelia Costco. (I've seen it there.)


My bad, there is another pink salt. It's called cure #1. I do like that pink salt that you grind, I'm planning on taking that for high humidity areas. 

What I was referring to was the cure that you make Pastrami, sausages, bacon, smoked pork chops with. I also use it for Salmon before I cold smoke it. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## ElPocho

Anonimo said:


> Paprika is easy to find in Mexico. It's called "Pimentón". It even is available as sweet (dulce) or hot (picante). Some, usually a Spanish import, is smoked. Fantastic stuff. look for "Pimentón de la Vera". That's paprika from a designated region of Spain. You would find it in better shops catering to the gourmet trade. You probably won't find it in your local tienda de abarrotes (Mom 'n Pop little general store.)


Thank you for your kind reply...

I buy it by the pound.  an addiction.  

Since the good stuff is imported, it's better to get it cheap in the US, and make sure it is not adulterated in the Mexican distribution channel.


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## ojosazules11

Anonimo said:


> Paprika is easy to find in Mexico. It's called "Pimentón". It even is available as sweet (dulce) or hot (picante). Some, usually a Spanish import, is smoked. Fantastic stuff. look for "Pimentón de la Vera". That's paprika from a designated region of Spain. You would find it in better shops catering to the gourmet trade. You probably won't find it in your local tienda de abarrotes (Mom 'n Pop little general store.)


Since I discovered Pimentón de la Vera (in Toronto) several years ago, I can hardly cook without it. I love it, both the _dulce_ and _picante_ varieties. I would recommend buying a brand that is authentic "Pimentón de la Vera _Denominación de origen protegida_". All the genuine ones I have ever bought come in little tins (about 70 gr). I have sometimes bought "Spanish Smoked Paprika", and it honestly is not nearly as good. I haven't tried to source it yet in the Tepoztlán / Cuernavaca area. My stints at our house in Tepoz are fairly short, and between invites from friends/family, eating out at our favourite haunts, plus my wonderful comadre Doña Clara next door, who is always dropping something by or calling me down to sample whatever is cooking on her comal, I hardly end up cooking when there. It's easy enough for now to stick a small tin in my suitcase as needed, but I will need to find a local source in the future when I'm not back and forth as much. I do like the local smoked chiles, but still like having Pimentón de la Vera on my shelf.


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## Anonimo

> My bad, there is another pink salt. It's called cure #1. I do like that pink salt that you grind, I'm planning on taking that for high humidity areas.
> 
> What I was referring to was the cure that you make Pastrami, sausages, bacon, smoked pork chops with. I also use it for Salmon before I cold smoke it.


I bought a curing salt called "Sal Praga", at Molinera El Progreso, in Mexico City, Calle Arandas 23 _bis_; but it's white, not pink, and I so far have no idea how to use it. I bought it in case I wanted to cure some meats.

I recently made salmon gravlax, using light brown sugar and ordinary table salt, among other seasonings. No sal praga was used.

More details for those who want them.


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## ElPocho

Anonimo said:


> I bought a curing salt called "Sal Praga", at Molinera El Progreso, in Mexico City, Calle Arandas 23 _bis_; but it's white, not pink, and I so far have no idea how to use it. I bought it in case I wanted to cure some meats.
> 
> I recently made salmon gravlax, using light brown sugar and ordinary table salt, among other seasonings. No sal praga was used.
> 
> More details for those who want them.


They die it pink so you don't confuse it with table salt. Typically if I remember correctly it's still mostly salt. It's about one teaspoon per pound of meat. You probably have the same book I have. You can make a killer pastrami.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## AlanMexicali

ElPocho said:


> They die it pink so you don't confuse it with table salt. Typically if I remember correctly it's still mostly salt. It's about one teaspoon per pound of meat. You probably have the same book I have. You can make a killer pastrami.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Sal Rosa is very hard to find here in SLP. It is red/pink and it is used to cure corned beef and is actually salt and sodium nitrite. If you leave it out of the sea salt brine the corned beef will not be reddish in color. I make corned beef from scratch and had a hard time finding it and allspice. It is about 3 tablespoons for about 7 or 8 pounds of brisket. Some call is saltpeter in the US, I think. Many supermarkets here in Mexico don´t sell brisket without the bone but COSTCO has it but in huge vacuum sealed bags. 

Some supermarkets might have it without the bone and call it brisket or "pecho de res". I cure it for a week in a huge pot in the fridge after toasting the spices lightly and crushing them slightly except a few spices go into the brine as is. I boil the bine with the spices added for a second, let it get cold before putting in the brisket. When cooked for 3 or 4 hours and then refrigerated I slice it fairly thin with my electric meat slicer for sandwiches.


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## ojosazules11

I'm impressed with those of you making your own salt-cured meat and fish! 
Isla, you may have to further revise the name of this thread!


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## ElPocho

ojosazules11 said:


> I'm impressed with those of you making your own salt-cured meat and fish!
> Isla, you may have to further revise the name of this thread!


No need to be impressed, mi estimada güerita, easy to do. I have books, and read. 
My abuelita, learned how to make cecina, just like they make in Morelos. 

When people complement my cooking, I say that my soon to be ex-wife of 20 years has been my inspiration. 
As they'd say in Mexico she cooks for pure mother!
Cocina pa' pura madre...
 LOL

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## ElPocho

AlanMexicali said:


> Sal Rosa is very hard to find here in SLP. It is red/pink and it is used to cure corned beef and is actually salt and sodium nitrite. If you leave it out of the sea salt brine the corned beef will not be reddish in color. I make corned beef from scratch and had a hard time finding it and allspice. It is about 3 tablespoons for about 7 or 8 pounds of brisket. Some call is saltpeter in the US, I think. Many supermarkets here in Mexico don´t sell brisket without the bone but COSTCO has it but in huge vacuum sealed bags.
> 
> Some supermarkets might have it without the bone and call it brisket or "pecho de res". I cure it for a week in a huge pot in the fridge after toasting the spices lightly and crushing them slightly except a few spices go into the brine as is. I boil the bine with the spices added for a second, let it get cold before putting in the brisket. When cooked for 3 or 4 hours and then refrigerated I slice it fairly thin with my electric meat slicer for sandwiches.


Perfectly explained! 
If you cut the salt and add sugar to the mix you can end up with pastrami instead of corned beef. 

You can do a dry cure as well. For a dry cure the meat has to be under 2 inches thick . 
Pink salt is great for brining a turkey too!

You also answered a future question which is what's the name for brisket in Spanish.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## GrayGeek

I can't live with out PB&J sanwiches


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## surabi

ElPocho said:


> My bad, there is another pink salt. It's called cure #1. I do like that pink salt that you grind, I'm planning on taking that for high humidity areas.


I live in a high humidity area, and I can tell you that even rock salt turns to water here pretty quickly unless you store it in the fridge or freezer.


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## ElPocho

surabi said:


> I live in a high humidity area, and I can tell you that even rock salt turns to water here pretty quickly unless you store it in the fridge or freezer.


good to know. this place is a fountain of knowledge, small things that I'd have to learn the hard way. 
I thought I was so smart, and had figured out a solution to sticky salt.


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## surabi

ElPocho said:


> good to know. this place is a fountain of knowledge, small things that I'd have to learn the hard way.
> I thought I was so smart, and had figured out a solution to sticky salt.


So did I. I even bought myself a nice marble pepper grinder from Ikea when I was up north, thinking I'd use it for the rock salt. The steel mechanism inside rusted out in 2 weeks from the damp salt!


----------



## surabi

And while on the subject of high humidity and small things you have to learn the hard way, and to even further derail this thread, all my small electronics, like remotes, my bank "token" that I need to access my online Mexican banking, etc, were not working properly. I put them in a Tupperware container with a tight fitting lid, with a small container of those moisture absorbing beads and they all started working again within a day!

This derailed thread reminds me of that kid's birthday party game we used to play called "Gossip". Kids sit in a circle, first kid whispers something to the next, they whisper it to the next and so end til the last kid says out loud what was whispered to him. It was always something totally different than what the first kid whispered.


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## ElPocho

surabi said:


> So did I. I even bought myself a nice marble pepper grinder from Ikea when I was up north, thinking I'd use it for the rock salt. The steel mechanism inside rusted out in 2 weeks from the damp salt!


Great minds think alike ! Jejeje


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## surabi

Love the new thread name, Isla Verde. You could change it daily just for fun.


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## Isla Verde

surabi said:


> Love the new thread name, Isla Verde. You could change it daily just for fun.


Thanks. I enjoy being appreciated! Will take your suggestion under advisement.


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## ElPocho

surabi said:


> Love the new thread name, Isla Verde. You could change it daily just for fun.


All for the unencumbered flow of knowledge or all things Mexico. 
Knowledge is a good thing.

Thank you Isla, those who about to migrate salute you.


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> All for the unencumbered flow of knowledge or all things Mexico.
> Knowledge is a good thing.
> 
> Thank you Isla, those who about to migrate salute you.


Thumbs up for your post, ElPocho.


----------



## TundraGreen

surabi said:


> So did I. I even bought myself a nice marble pepper grinder from Ikea when I was up north, thinking I'd use it for the rock salt. The steel mechanism inside rusted out in 2 weeks from the damp salt!


I use a molcajete* for grinding spices including salt crystals, pepper, cumin, coriander. It works great and is no more effort than a typical pepper grinder. Plus all the flavors blend.

*Stone mortar and pestle in English, but the stone ones here have a much rougher surface which makes grinder easier than the smooth ones I used to see north of the border.


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## Lefthanded Gordie

ElPocho said:


> They did not even have fresh coffee back then. Old timers (>40) will prefer instant coffee to the real stuff. "Elite Coffe"


Of course they had fresh coffee back then unless you don't consider _café de olla_ fresh. And there were numeous places in Guadalajara, Manzanillo, Oaxaca and of course Mexico, D.F. where you could get a decent cappuccino. And how could you not mention the iconic Gran Café de la Parroquia in Veracruz? 

And way back then peanut butter was scarce but it was available. I have lived in this country since 1972. I first lived in a small town on the Jalisco coast. Whenever anyone went to Manzanillo on some sort of business it included a visit to the _Tienda Azul_ to purchase a few jars of _Aladino_ crema de cachuate. There was a very good baker in town that offered warm, direct from the brick oven, _bolillos_ and every surfer, hippie, backpacker and the very rare adventurous older (like over 40!!) traveler would line up for to spread with Aladino peanut butter! It was a staple in backpacks and really was quite the luxury food item back then. Aladino, btw, is still on some store shelves.

And back to the bagels, Costco has been offering very decent bagels for some time now.


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## Isla Verde

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> And back to the bagels, Costco has been offering very decent bagels for some time now.


Please define "decent bagels".


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## Lefthanded Gordie

Anonimo said:


> I bought a curing salt called "Sal Praga", at Molinera El Progreso, in Mexico City, Calle Arandas 23 _bis_; but it's white, not pink, and I so far have no idea how to use it. I bought it in case I wanted to cure some meats.
> 
> I recently made salmon gravlax, using light brown sugar and ordinary table salt, among other seasonings. No sal praga was used.
> 
> More details for those who want them.


My wife, (una lindísima mexicana), has cured meats for years. Carne seca, cecina etc and always uses pure sea salt. But she also occasionally cures corned beef using _sal nitro_ that she picks up in the mercado de abastos here in Guadalajara.


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## Lefthanded Gordie

Isla Verde said:


> Please define "decent bagels".


I like them. How's that?

They are the same found in Costco NOB.


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## Isla Verde

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> I like them. How's that?
> 
> They are the same found in Costco NOB.


Fine for you then. Whether or not they are the same as the "bagels" found in Costco NOB says nothing to me about whether or not I would like them. When I lived in the States, I got my bagels at bagel shops where they made them on the premises, usually hot from the oven! Mmmm!


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## surabi

Isla, my dad used to get up early on Sunday mornings and go out to buy fresh bagels, lox, smoked white fish, and cream cheese. Was so much better than my mother's cooking. I don't know where he went for the bagels in the suburbs of Kansas city, but they were REAL bagels.


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## TundraGreen

I am probably guilty of being a bread snob, but as far as I am concerned any bread that is more than an hour or two old is not worth eating. You can get a few more hours out of it by toasting it. The bolillos (birotes in Jalisco) and saladas that you can get fresh every morning are great. I have hamburgers occasionally, well veggie burgers actually. I make the hamburger buns from scratch. It only takes 10 minutes to put them together and another 15 minutes to bake them and it is time is well spent.


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## Lefthanded Gordie

Isla Verde said:


> Fine for you then. Whether or not they are the same as the "bagels" found in Costco NOB says nothing to me about whether or not I would like them. When I lived in the States, I got my bagels at bagel shops where they made them on the premises, usually hot from the oven! Mmmm!


Well I have no idea as to your likes or dislikes. That is really impossible to know, But conversation on the thread also ran to how one must adapt to differences of what is available here versus NOB. So the only sure way for you to know would be to try them. 

My late father was a big fan of _tortas ahogadas_ my wife would fix, estilo Gemma here in Guagalajara, when he came to visit. An authentic torta ahogada must use a _bolillo salado_. He always returned to the US with cans of _chile chipotle_, a very necessary ingredient not to be found easily in those days NOB. He tried quite a few different bread rolls, including sour dough, but none equalled the _bolillo salado_. While not the same, they made a "decent" facsimile. But he still enjoyed his torta even though he didn't get the bolillo fresh at the mercado in Sta. Tere.


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## Lefthanded Gordie

TundraGreen said:


> The bolillos (birotes in Jalisco) and saladas that you can get fresh every morning are great.


Yes, birote as it is known in Guadalajara. The term bolillo is used in other parts of Jalisco. You have the famous _birote salado grande_ that has been sold for years in la Central de Autobus vieja in Guadalajara. People from all over the country would buy it when they returned home on the bus. It became quite a tradition.


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## TundraGreen

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> Yes, birote as it is known in Guadalajara. The term bolillo is used in other parts of Jalisco. You have the famous _birote salado grande_ that has been sold for years in la Central de Autobus vieja in Guadalajara. People from all over the country would buy it when they returned home on the bus. It became quite a tradition.


Those are wonderful, in the best tradition of a crusty European style bread. I commented once on how they compare to French baguettes and Citlali was not impressed, but I still maintain that breads available at any local bakery in Guadalajara compare favorably with crusty white breads anywhere in the world. The sweet breads (pan dulce) are more ordinary, but the ones without sugar are world class.


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## Lefthanded Gordie

TundraGreen said:


> Those are wonderful, in the best tradition of a crusty European style bread. I commented once on how they compare to French baguettes and Citlali was not impressed, but I still maintain that breads available at any local bakery in Guadalajara compare favorably with crusty white breads anywhere in the world. The sweet breads (pan dulce) are more ordinary, but the ones without sugar are world class.


I agree. Our daughter lives in Milan and the bakery bread sold here is as good as anything she can find there. The birote salado is even better. The best bolillos I have ever eaten in all my time in this country were in Colima. Incredible crust and soft chewy inside. In fact Colima has some of the best tortillas also.


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## ElPocho

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> Of course they had fresh coffee back then unless you don't consider _café de olla_ fresh. And there were numeous places in Guadalajara, Manzanillo, Oaxaca and of course Mexico, D.F. where you could get a decent cappuccino. And how could you not mention the iconic Gran Café de la Parroquia in Veracruz?
> 
> And way back then peanut butter was scarce but it was available. I have lived in this country since 1972. I first lived in a small town on the Jalisco coast. Whenever anyone went to Manzanillo on some sort of business it included a visit to the _Tienda Azul_ to purchase a few jars of _Aladino_ crema de cachuate. There was a very good baker in town that offered warm, direct from the brick oven, _bolillos_ and every surfer, hippie, backpacker and the very rare adventurous older (like over 40!!) traveler would line up for to spread with Aladino peanut butter! It was a staple in backpacks and really was quite the luxury food item back then. Aladino, btw, is still on some store shelves.
> 
> And back to the bagels, Costco has been offering very decent bagels for some time now.


My bad, I was referring to Israel not having coffee. Somehow the thread move to bagels not being plentiful in Isreal and somehow to coffee. I like the thread BTW!


Mexico had the famous Cafes de Chinos all over the place, cafe de Olla con piloncillo etc.
I think Cafe VIPS popped up in CDMX in the early seventies. And then Sanborns and the Casa de los Azulejos.


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## DebInFL

Well, I've skimmed most of this thread and I can honestly say I would not miss peanut butter or bagels. Being raised the the southern U.S., I had a hard time adjusting to life in FL, where most of the people are from up north, and eat entirely differently from southerners. I was raised on a lot of fresh fruits and veggies; potatoes, tomatoes and rice were staples. The only "Italian" food I ever ate was my mother's pizza pie (which I learned later was actual Italian meat pizza, not what we call pizza in the states) and spaghetti, both which had plenty of meat in them. I don't like tomato sauce nor do I like many pastas. My favorite fruit is mango, so I'd be in hog heaven in Mexico. 

I love anything made of corn and anything wrapped in a tortilla, even though the only Mexican food I ever had growing up was tex-mex chili. We Southerners love our pork and chicken, so I wouldn't have a problem there. 

I guess I'm blessed to have been raised in an agricultural area with so much fresh food available all year long. From what people have told me about Mexican food, the only problem I would have is the very hot spicy foods. I like things that are mildly spicy, but not really hot. I guess I'd have to learn to cook my own versions without the spices. 

Living in SW Florida for 15 years, I can tell you right now that if I never saw another Italian restaurant, I'd be happy. Where I live now in N. Florida (the deep south of FL) is much better, and people eat a lot more like I'm used to. Simple Mexican food is very similar to what I grew up eating, so I think the only thing I would miss would be my favorite snack foods.


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## surabi

Actually, most Mexican food is not particularly spicy, as in hot. For instance, if you go to a taco stand and order a meat taco, the meat has no spices added- it is usually pretty bland. But there will always be a bottle of hot sauce on the table, which Mexicans liberally douse their food in. Or you can get some jicama on the street, then they put chile and limon on it if you want. In my experience, the spice is added at the end, rather than in the cooking. More often, I find that a lot of Mexican food is way too salty. I've had to leave or send back food in restaurants because it was literally too salty to enjoy.


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## surabi

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> Of course they had fresh coffee back then unless you don't consider _café de olla_ fresh. And there were numeous places in Guadalajara, Manzanillo, Oaxaca and of course Mexico, D.F. where you could get a decent cappuccino. And how could you not mention the iconic Gran Café de la Parroquia in Veracruz?
> 
> And way back then peanut butter was scarce but it was available. I have lived in this country since 1972. I first lived in a small town on the Jalisco coast. Whenever anyone went to Manzanillo on some sort of business it included a visit to the _Tienda Azul_ to purchase a few jars of _Aladino_ crema de cachuate. There was a very good baker in town that offered warm, direct from the brick oven, _bolillos_ and every surfer, hippie, backpacker and the very rare adventurous older (like over 40!!) traveler would line up for to spread with Aladino peanut butter! It was a staple in backpacks and really was quite the luxury food item back then. Aladino, btw, is still on some store shelves.
> 
> And back to the bagels, Costco has been offering very decent bagels for some time now.


I do like peanut butter, but I'd have to be pretty desperate to consider Aladino, Jiffy or Skippy to be actual peanut butter. Loaded with sugar, hydrogenated vegetable oil, stabilizers, etc, that is not peanut butter to me, it's kiddie food (altho my kids definitely didn't get that kind of junk). Real peanut butter is peanuts, maybe a little salt, that's it.
Aladino is to peanut butter what Nescafe is to real coffee.


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## TundraGreen

surabi said:


> Actually, most Mexican food is not particularly spicy, as in hot. For instance, if you go to a taco stand and order a meat taco, the meat has no spices added- it is usually pretty bland. But there will always be a bottle of hot sauce on the table, which Mexicans liberally douse their food in. Or you can get some jicama on the street, then they put chile and limon on it if you want. In my experience, the spice is added at the end, rather than in the cooking. More often, I find that a lot of Mexican food is way too salty. I've had to leave or send back food in restaurants because it was literally too salty to enjoy.


I concur. Even the bottle of hot sauce on the table is not super hot, like Thai, Szechuan or Indian food.


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## surabi

As a side note, my Mexican son -in-law told me that picante does not mean "hot" but simply means spicy, could be any kind of spice, as in a dessert having a lot of cinnamon in it. That spicy as in "hot" is picoso. I suspect this could vary regionally.


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## Lefthanded Gordie

surabi said:


> As a side note, my Mexican son -in-law told me that picante does not mean "hot" but simply means spicy, could be any kind of spice, as in a dessert having a lot of cinnamon in it. That spicy as in "hot" is picoso. I suspect this could vary regionally.


I disagree. Both picante and picoso(a) are synonymous. Foods that have a lot of spices are described as being "muy condimentado(a)".

I believe both picante and picoso come from the verb "picar", a word that has many meanings but in this case describing food translates to sting. 

La salsa está muy picante 

or

la salsa está muy picosa

Both mean exactly the same thing.

An example of the verb picar meaning "hot" would be something like this: 

"ese chile pica?"

"No (o sí) mucho"


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## Lefthanded Gordie

surabi said:


> I do like peanut butter, but I'd have to be pretty desperate to consider Aladino, Jiffy or Skippy to be actual peanut butter. Loaded with sugar, hydrogenated vegetable oil, stabilizers, etc, that is not peanut butter to me, it's kiddie food (altho my kids definitely didn't get that kind of junk). Real peanut butter is peanuts, maybe a little salt, that's it.
> Aladino is to peanut butter what Nescafe is to real coffee.


Well in 1972 I guess Mexico was full of desperate surfers, hippies and backpacker types. Times have changed. So has the availability and variety of many different products. Some for the good and others not as much. I long for a huge papaya criollo that were quite common back in those times. Economic forces forced the growers into planting mostly papaya maradol which doesn't even come close to the flavor of the criollos.


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## surabi

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> Well in 1972 I guess Mexico was full of desperate surfers, hippies and backpacker types. Times have changed. So has the availability and variety of many different products. Some for the good and others not as much. I long for a huge papaya criollo that were quite common back in those times. Economic forces forced the growers into planting mostly papaya maradol which doesn't even come close to the flavor of the criollos.


Yeah, I was one of those hippie travelers in the early 70's, altho I never went in for backpacking, I had a van. And I was never desperate enough to eat Aladino, but I did have to make do with Nescafe, as it seemed to be the only thing around that could be considered coffee.


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## Isla Verde

surabi said:


> Yeah, I was one of those hippie travelers in the early 70's, altho I never went in for backpacking, I had a van. And I was never desperate enough to eat Aladino, but I did have to make do with Nescafe, as it seemed to be the only thing around that could be considered coffee.


I was never a hippie traveler, but I did spend time in Mexico in the 1970s. Even in Mexico City, when you ordered "café con leche", inevitably you were served a tall glass of warm milk with a jar of (yuck) Nescafé and a long spoon. In those days, Sanborn's was one of the few places to serve decent coffee.


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## dr.techseo786

Anonimo said:


> IMO, pink salt is pretty, and that's the only advantage over ordinary white salt. A Morelia friend has pink Himalayan Salt in a grinder on her dining room table. I think she bought it at the Morelia Costco. (I've seen it there.)




Pink salt is not only pretty it has several minerals which are good for human health and it releases negative ions which detoxicates the body


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## kphoger

I keep coarse pink salt in the house. The only reason is that I can't find any other color of salt that's course enough for my purposes. IMHO, there's iodized and non-iodized, and everything else doesn't really matter.


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