# Spouse Non-EU Visa rejected for no good reason - HELP!



## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

I lived in Spain from 2010. I was married to my first husband, but we divorced in 2013 and I married my second husband, an American citizen. I went to live in America for nine months before returning to Spain with him, applying to convert to a visa for an Non-EU citizen as my husband. I am British, so I am EU. I have five years of Spanish residency behind me.

I started immediately to work as Autonomo, and registered my business in September 2014. We applied for his visa in Malaga via a lawyer. His visa was refused because I had only worked for two months as Autonomo and "only" had seven thousand Euros in the bank. We live in the apartment I shared with my first husband, which is owned by him and I guarantored it.
When the visa was rejected, we appealed with a bank sum of 11,000 Euros and three months tax returns. They said it was not good enough.

We applied immediately again, and submitted a tax return showing 16,000 Euros for the months September - December 2014. We submitted the same paperwork apart from this new bank certificate, showing 14,000 Euros in my bank account.

Today, they rejected it again, based on his medical insurance being insufficient. We already had the medical insurance accepted on the last visa, and there is no change in the status of that since the last visa. He is with Kaiser, the biggest health insurer in the USA, which covers him anywhere in the world for immediate medical care and repatriation. However, when we applied this time, the office clerk told us that this medical insurance wasn't even necessary as part of the application because I was autonomo and paying for National Health in Spain.

We submitted it anyway, and now not only is it deemed "insufficient" (it is a premier Platinum plan!) it was accompanied by a letter from Kaiser saying, in Spanish, the terms of the worldwide insurance. And now it's rejected! 

They also wrote a vague reason that even my lawyer does not understand.

How can we overturn this appeal? My next tax quarter will be showing 16,000 Euros again, so altogether my turnover in six months is 32,000 Euros! How can this not be good enough? I don't see millionaires walking about in the foreigner's office!

Please help us, we are beside ourselves here, with no recourse. I cannot see how adding more money to the bank is going to prove anything more, and anyway, they did not have a problem with this. How can we solve this? 

I want to have the decision overthrown based on the criteria for refusal in the EU Directive that states there is only four reasons a visa can be turned down. These reasons seem tepid and vague and not within guidelines for rejection.

"In the unlikely event visa application is rejected, there must be a detailed explanation given about the reasons for the rejection, and there is an clear appeal process that you will be told about. The only four grounds for rejecting a visa application are:

public health (i.e. a serious contagious disease)
national security
(big) public policy
the marriage was done solely for getting the visa"

Well, we haven't got the plague, we're not unibombers, not even one parking ticket between us, there's no policy on banning Americans I don't think, and the last point is completely moot also. So what gives? HELP!

I sent this to SOLVIT too.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

ceebee13 said:


> I lived in Spain from 2010. I was married to my first husband, but we divorced in 2013 and I married my second husband, an American citizen. I went to live in America for nine months before returning to Spain with him, applying to convert to a visa for an Non-EU citizen as my husband. I am British, so I am EU. I have five years of Spanish residency behind me.
> 
> I started immediately to work as Autonomo, and registered my business in September 2014. We applied for his visa in Malaga via a lawyer. His visa was refused because I had only worked for two months as Autonomo and "only" had seven thousand Euros in the bank. We live in the apartment I shared with my first husband, which is owned by him and I guarantored it.
> When the visa was rejected, we appealed with a bank sum of 11,000 Euros and three months tax returns. They said it was not good enough.
> ...



I don't really know anything about applying for visas for non EU citizens but I suspect money in the bank could be your problem.

Even EU citizens are required to show they have sufficient income which is interpreted as approx 600€ per month per person being paid into a Spanish bank account and some also require approx 6000€ per person savings, again in a Spanish bank account.

If the tax returns only show turnover as you mention, then they are not showing that you actually have the required level of income - as your outgoings could be higher than your turnover.

For EU citizens, the health cover has to be provided by a Spanish company but it sounds as though you are correct in your assumption that your husband shouldn't need it as your dependant. Spanish healthcare isn't expensive so if worst comes to worst, I guess your husband could just take out a policy in Spain for a year, even though he shouldn't have to.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

*Thanks - think you are right*

Sorry, I should have clarifed that was my profit, not turnover. So we easily meet that target even in four months.

As for the health insurance, I fear you are correct. I think I'm going to look into changing insurance to Spain - even though it's completely stupid because he's on mine as soon as we get the visa. Oh well, welcome to Spain!! Thanks.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

ceebee13 said:


> Sorry, I should have clarifed that was my profit, not turnover. So we easily meet that target even in four months.
> 
> As for the health insurance, I fear you are correct. I think I'm going to look into changing insurance to Spain - even though it's completely stupid because he's on mine as soon as we get the visa. Oh well, welcome to Spain!! Thanks.


Maybe if you show the savings and monthly regular income into a Spanish bank account instead of your tax return. That's certainly the accepted format for EU citizens.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

*...*

We did. bank certificates, stamped, everything...


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Ceebee, I am confused by your use of the word ‘Visa’ in relation to residencia. 

I have been resident in Spain for over 25 years. My wife in non EU and under retirement age. When we applied for a visitor’s visa for her to come to Spain with a view to her living here permanently, it was issued in her home country and was valid for 90 day. 

Upon arriving in Spain we started the proceedings to apply for residencia (Not to be confused with EU Registration required by EU citizens). Once that is submitted the 90 day validity of the visa is irrelevant and had not further significance. So I do not know what you mean when you speak about 'visa' after having started the residencia application..

My was required to have private medical cover, even though the DWP had issued a certificate that showed she was covered for medical as I my dependant.

PS I understand Spain has signed an EU Directive that it is illegal to keep a family separated without good cause.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

I mean residencia. We have the empadron and his medical American health insurance that says he is covered for emergency treatment. So am I to understand they want cover for inpatient etc. until his visa comes? If so, seems really stupid considering that in Spain you can pay out of pocket if that was needed. So now I have to shell out 500 Euros for a year's policy just for a month? Why did my lawyer not tell me I wonder? Ufff!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ceebee13 said:


> I mean residencia. We have the empadron and his medical American health insurance that says he is covered for emergency treatment. So am I to understand they want cover for inpatient etc. until his visa comes? If so, seems really stupid considering that in Spain you can pay out of pocket if that was needed. So now I have to shell out 500 Euros for a year's policy just for a month? Why did my lawyer not tell me I wonder? Ufff!


the requirement for EU citizens is for private cover equal to state cover - so yes, inpatient cover is required

I can't imagine that it would be any different for a non-EU citizen


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I know I am in the minority, but I try to always differentiate between Residencia and EU Citizen Registration. As you will know they are totally different but not using the correct terminology often leads to confusion. 

Saying ‘visa’ if you mean residencia will also lead to confusion, a visa is not what you need. If you are doing that type of thing when you go to make the applications then it is likely they will misunderstand what you want and you will fail to get what you need.

The rules show clearly that the medical cover required is full cover, i.e. the same as one has if one has a Tarjeta de Social Seguridad in Spain, not just emergency cover, that is insufficient. 

Why did your lawyer not tell you what you wanted to now ? Well maybe you used the wrong terminology and thus he did not understand what you actually required.


PS xabiachica. I was posting as you posted. As you imagine, it is no different for a non EU citizen


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

No I didn't - I just wrote visa here because I thought it would be easier for non-Spanish speakers. I am quite cross as this means we've paid twice and appealed and nobody told us this was required. In fact the first time we applied the medical insurance was accepted!


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ceebee13 said:


> No I didn't - I just wrote visa here because I thought it would be easier for non-Spanish speakers. I am quite cross as this means we've paid twice and appealed and nobody told us this was required. In fact the first time we applied the medical insurance was accepted!


The requirements are set out clearly in the rules. It clearly says the medical cover must be full.

This is a translation from the rules -
_Health coverage during their period of residence* equivalent to that provided by the national system of health insurance* ....................... ._


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

ceebee13 said:


> No I didn't - I just wrote visa here because I thought it would be easier for non-Spanish speakers. I am quite cross as this means we've paid twice and appealed and nobody told us this was required. In fact the first time we applied the medical insurance was accepted!


Check USAA's insurance. I don't know if he'd be able to qualify with them, but I have been able to get short term policies from them in the past. 

I'm sorry this is happening. You're the second poster in recent time who this has happened to.


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## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

Cannot understand you have such trouble!

Just go to the immigration office to ask what you need.They will gave you a list. You do not have to work at all if you have money in the bank for a few months. 

Make sure all the translation of the marriage certificate is less than 90 days. Make sure your husband has Spanish private insurance.

You do not need any lawyer at all.just follow the list. You can take the list home and translate by Google. 

I do not speak Spanish and manage to do a few government things myself. I printed the list and point to them. I speak English with them. I think they understood but not willing to speak in English.

Sometime the lawyer gave you wrong info. Some lawyer suggested I do not do anything and go to apply in 3 years! What a ridiculous suggestion!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

ceebee13 said:


> We did. bank certificates, stamped, everything...


First we're assuming you are asking about residence and that your husband already obtained his 3 month visa while still in the US?

If he does need medical insurance then as others have said the U.S. emergency policy is no use, it would have to be Spanish full medical insurance. However, it may well be that you are confusing the issue by giving the U.S. medical policy when you should just be giving proof of his entitlement to state cover via your marriage and autonomo.

Similarly, I think you may be confusing the authorities with your tax returns. All they want is proof of money in a SPANISH bank. For a EU citizen that can be 6000€ per person PLUS 600 per month, so your 14000 between you may not be considered enough, especially for a non EU person. You certainly didn't have enough in the bank at your first attempt.

It is normal for the 600 per person per month to have been deposited for at least 3 months- have you done this? 

Also, is the money in a joint account with his name - you said it was in your account?

Now, you may also be at the stage where your marriage certificate etc doesn't meet the requirement to have been stamped within the last 90 days.

There's no way you can have the decision overruled because you don't have the plague, aren't bombers, etc. Everyone, even EU citizens, has to show they have the means to support themselves.

As Sandra says, just ask for the list of what they will accept- then comply with it fully- and don't fudge it with unnecessary documents or by talking about a visa if you mean residence.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

brocher said:


> First we're assuming you are asking about residence and that your husband already obtained his 3 month visa while still in the US?


Being the spouse of a EU citizen, I am 99% sure that he does *not* need a visa. He just must apply for residency permission at _extranjería_ as soon as he arrives. 

This is what it looks like. OP made a "mistake" in using the word visa. She's admitted this.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

elenetxu said:


> Being the spouse of a EU citizen, I am 99% sure that he does *not* need a visa. He just must apply for residency permission at _extranjería_ as soon as he arrives.
> 
> This is what it looks like. OP made a "mistake" in using the word visa. She's admitted this.


But she continued to say Visa even when she said she understood that was not what she meant. If people use the wrong terminology, like those who say residencia when they mean EU Citizen Registration, how can they hope people will know what the question they intended to ask was ?


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

OK not looking for a punch up over a word I used, stressed enough. Thanks for the help, I will get some different insurance - can't get Spanish insurance without an NIE - can't get an NIE without the residencia...so we have to get global insurance from USA. I'm going to go with Cigna Global. I can't get proof of state healthcare for him as a beneficiary without the residencia or NIE.
I did the bank certificates and statements showing the deposits. These were stamped by the bank each time and signed by the bank manager. My account is Spanish, has been for five years. Obviously again, he can't have a bank account without the NIE so the bank account is only in my name.
I'm firing the lawyer if this appeal fails and I'll do it myself.

Sorry, where can I get a link to the rules for the application that you translated, Larryzx? I want to show this to the lawyer on Monday.


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## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

ceebee13 said:


> OK not looking for a punch up over a word I used, stressed enough. Thanks for the help, I will get some different insurance - can't get Spanish insurance without an NIE - can't get an NIE without the residencia...so we have to get global insurance from USA. I'm going to go with Cigna Global. I can't get proof of state healthcare for him as a beneficiary without the residencia or NIE.
> I did the bank certificates and statements showing the deposits. These were stamped by the bank each time and signed by the bank manager. My account is Spanish, has been for five years. Obviously again, he can't have a bank account without the NIE so the bank account is only in my name.
> I'm firing the lawyer if this appeal fails and I'll do it myself.
> 
> Sorry, where can I get a link to the rules for the application that you translated, Larryzx? I want to show this to the lawyer on Monday.


You can buy MAPFRE insurance with the passport. You can open non resident bank account with Sabadell too. I wonder whether you live in an area without many foreigners. If you go to an area with a lot of foreigners,it is much easier.

I lived in La zenia and bought the insurance and open a bank account with my passport. Now I live in a very spanish town, the Sabadell bank does not speak any English and does not know how to deal with foreigners at all.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I am almost certain one can obtain an NIE in the circumstances you describe. 

One for sure does not need to be resident in Spain to obtain an NIE. Everyone who buys a property must get one and (allowing for the exception which seems to apply to Sabadell) to operate a bank account even as a non-resident

My wife got cover with Sanitas before she had an NIE or residencia. 

May I suggest you go to the National Police Station (with an Extranjería) for the area where you live and obtain a copy of the requirements in your circumstances. Tat way you will know for certain what you need.

The more I read, I suspect you are falling somewhere between two set of rules. 

My wife, non EU, did not have a bank account and did not need funds in her name as she was my dependant.

Also we did not need to use a lawyer to get her paperwork.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ceebee13 said:


> OK not looking for a punch up over a word I used, stressed enough. Thanks for the help, I will get some different insurance - can't get Spanish insurance without an NIE - can't get an NIE without the residencia...so we have to get global insurance from USA. I'm going to go with Cigna Global. I can't get proof of state healthcare for him as a beneficiary without the residencia or NIE.
> I did the bank certificates and statements showing the deposits. These were stamped by the bank each time and signed by the bank manager. My account is Spanish, has been for five years. Obviously again, he can't have a bank account without the NIE so the bank account is only in my name.
> I'm firing the lawyer if this appeal fails and I'll do it myself.
> 
> Sorry, where can I get a link to the rules for the application that you translated, Larryzx? I want to show this to the lawyer on Monday.


yes he can get a NIE without residencia - he could even have got one from the consulate back in the US before you came here. 

he can also open a non-resident account in many banks without a NIE - but can't be on a joint account with you, as you are probably aware, so it probably isn't worth bothering, since the whole premise of his residencia is that he is your dependent, until such time as he is allowed to work, when the residencia is granted


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Yes, he's my dependent so chasing down an NIE at this point is useless. I have looked into Sanitas and DKV and many other Spanish insurers and they all want the NIE. The global insurance is for Spain, covers Spain entirely and is only 460 Euros a year. I am so angry we have been thrown about like this! I think I will go to the police station and find out properly what to do. I don't trust the lawyer any more.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ceebee13 said:


> Yes, he's my dependent so chasing down an NIE at this point is useless. I have looked into Sanitas and DKV and many other Spanish insurers and they all want the NIE. The global insurance is for Spain, covers Spain entirely and is only 460 Euros a year. I am so angry we have been thrown about like this! I think I will go to the police station and find out properly what to do. I don't trust the lawyer any more.


I really don't know why you seem to be in mess at every turn

My wife, as I said, got cover with Sanitas before she had an NIE, and infact her ID with Sanitas, still is the Philipines passport number which she had 9 years ago, i.e. not even her currect PP No.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

OK - I am in a mess, yes. Hoping for help. We're in a terrible situation losing money left right and center. I was hoping to find out where you got the rules from. I will need to present them in Spanish. Any chance of the link? Thanks.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Thanks... I need help not judgement. Appreciated. And yes, he automatically had a 90-day visa when we arrived.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ceebee13 said:


> OK - I am in a mess, yes. Hoping for help. We're in a terrible situation losing money left right and center. I was hoping to find out where you got the rules from. I will need to present them in Spanish. Any chance of the link? Thanks.


I do not think you are reading what is posted: Rather than mislead you with info which, just might be interpreted differently where you are, I posted, _"May I suggest you go to the National Police Station (with an Extranjería) for the area where you live and obtain a copy of the requirements in your circumstances. *That way you will know for certain what you need.*_


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I really don't know why you seem to be in mess at every turn
> 
> My wife, as I said, got cover with Sanitas before she had an NIE, and infact her ID with Sanitas, still is the Philipines passport number which she had 9 years ago, i.e. not even her currect PP No.


things have changed a lot in the past 9 years though

many banks will insist on a NIE now to open a non-resident account, & many other companies & entities will insist upon a NIE whereas before they accepted a passport


the OP _isn't _in a mess at every turn - she has clearly been very badly advised by a so-called immigration lawyer


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Meanwhile I paid 2000 Euros to a lawyer to know all this without me having to do it myself...OK thanks. I will be ripping slices off the lawyer on Monday. This is ridiculous - we presented that health insurance three times and had it translated by the lawyer, and yet it's useless, and they didn't even point it out. I thought it would be easier to have a lawyer and it turns out it's far worse. Do it yourself is the motto it seems. I speak Spanish fine, so I'm going to get the list of rejection from the lawyer, call Sanitas and then go to Malaga myself and have it out in the office. Seems better than worrying about the lawyer at this point. I think it's safe to say they are to blame here. Still confused as to why my state healthcare is not relevant. Maybe I should get the copy of that, too. Right now, all my original documents are stuck in a file in Malaga and they won't be released until after the appeal - including the marriage certificate and translation. Great...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I do not think you are reading what is posted: Rather than mislead you with info which, just might be interpreted differently where you are, I posted, _"May I suggest you go to the National Police Station (with an Extranjería) for the area where you live and obtain a copy of the requirements in your circumstances. *That way you will know for certain what you need.*_


I agree - but please supply the link anyway - if only to comply with forum rules which require you to link to any web page from which you quote


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ceebee13 said:


> . Still confused as to why my state healthcare is not relevant. ...


If you mean in relation to your husband, then it is because it is your health cover not his.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Thanks. I like to think I'm pretty all there...I won't be at the end of it all...at this rate. But yes, it seems the lawyer is the problem now. I felt all along that some decisions seemed weird even for Spanish logic. Having lived in Spain for nearly ten years it usually makes sense in some way. These things haven't made sense at all. It seemed logical that we could show my autonomo state health insurance. And that in some way, a complete insurance was needed until then. But we didn't even think it was needed. It seems the way forward is to get this list of rejected items and work backwards and fix the holes made by the lawyer. I don't fancy the idea of adding on bank accounts, and other paperwork for frills. It seems logical to do the list and keep all confusing factors out of it, unless they specifically ask for it. I suppose the remaining issue is whether I should take the proof of my national health, because that seems to be logical. I cannot even try to add my husband as Malaga has the marriage certificate!

Thanks!


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

But he is my spouse so he is my beneficiary and dependent on my state healthcare. He will be as entitled as me as soon as he gets his residencia tarjeta


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I agree - but please supply the link anyway - if only to comply with forum rules which require you to link to any web page from which you quote


I did not quote from a web page. It is something which I know, but as you know, in complying with the forum rules I am not permitted to show how I know it.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ceebee13 said:


> But he is my spouse so he is my beneficiary and dependent on my state healthcare. He will be as entitled as me a*s soon as he gets his residencia tarjeta[*/QUOTE]
> 
> If you read one of my earler posts, you will have seen I did say I had confirmation from DWP that they would include my wife, but that was not accepted and that was why we got cover with Sanitas. When she got her residencia she applied for, and got her Spanish health card.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Great, makes perfect sense to me now - sounds like Spain logic to me too, which makes me feel confident and means I can concentrate on the main issues without thinking "what if". OK I am going to call Sanitas. It might be I am using a local dealer that has their own form with the NIE and that the general company will do this as you say without the NIE. If not I'll do Cigna, they are Spanish.
Thanks for the help. Sounds like once I get Spanish healthcare for him and get a new bank certificate we might be able to get this accepted. Why a Spanish lawyer wouldn't know that is amazing to me!


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

It's fine, I found it here:
https://www.gov.uk/residency-requirements-in-spain


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ceebee13 said:


> It's fine, I found it here:
> https://www.gov.uk/residency-requirements-in-spain


I think that may relate to EU citizens and not non EU. That was why I suggested you go to your nearest National Police Office and pick up the most recent info. which relates directly to your situation.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I did not quote from a web page. It is something which I know, but as you know, in complying with the forum rules I am not permitted to show how I know it.


you need to post where the information came from if someone asks, or not post the information at all - it only serves to confuse matters

if the information is in fact available on the govt website, I don't see your problem

if it isn't publicly available, please don't refer to it


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

But Larryzx said he got Sanitas insurance using only a passport NINE years ago. That very well could have changed after all these years. However, Sandraw said she got Mapfre insurance using a passport, and that would have been recently because she's only recently come to Spain. Have you given them a try? I think it's important that you stick to a Spanish company. Be sure to get a policy with no co-payment, because some people have been turned down for having health insurance with a co-payment.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Oh my goodness, really? OK, so I am looking at a huge outlay then. What's wrong with a co-payment? Really this is silly! Thanks though, that is really good to know.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> you need to post where the information came from if someone asks, or not post the information at all - it only serves to confuse matters
> 
> the information is in fact available on the govt website, so I don't see your problem


What I posted  came from a document on my PC which I created from info which I believe I got from official information available in the Extranjería of , shall I just say ‘a police station I know very well'. 

I would not be surprised if 'similar info' is available elsewhere too


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> What I posted  came from a document on my PC which I created from info which I believe I got from official information available in the Extranjería of , shall I just say ‘a police station I know very well'.
> 
> I would not be surprised if 'similar info' is available elsewhere too



so quote from that - not from something you can't cite as a source


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

I found a link to the government website where it states what paperwork is required when submitting an application for residency for a family member of an EU citizen. Here it is: Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración Sorry it's all in Spanish, which I know is against forum rules, but that's what language it comes in.  It's clear that many extranjería offices are requiring more paperwork than their own webpage states is necessary. According to the webpage, if the EU member is self-employed (the OP's case) all that needs to be turned in is paperwork showing he or she is paying autónomo. No bank statements, health insurance, etc. So the lawyer may not have been so far off base. It's the extranjería that's being unreasonable.

As Larryxz said, the best thing to be done is to go to the extranjería office you're dealing with and ask exactly what paperwork they want. Get it in writing. 

Good luck sorting it out!


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Can I clarify with anyone who knows if co-pays or deductibles are an issue with this insurance I have to pay?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kalohi said:


> I found a link to the government website where it states what paperwork is required when submitting an application for residency for a family member of an EU citizen. Here it is: Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración Sorry it's all in Spanish, which I know is against forum rules, but that's what language it comes in.  It's clear that many extranjería offices are requiring more paperwork than their own webpage states is necessary. According to the webpage, if the EU member is self-employed (the OP's case) all that needs to be turned in is paperwork showing he or she is paying autónomo. No bank statements, health insurance, etc. So the lawyer may not have been so far off base. It's the extranjería that's being unreasonable.
> 
> As Larryxz said, the best thing to be done is to go to the extranjería office you're dealing with and ask exactly what paperwork they want. Get it in writing.
> 
> Good luck sorting it out!


it isn't against the rules to post links to websites, especially govt ones, which are in Spanish

you'd hardly expect them to be in anything else 

though some do have some info in English now


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Oops! Just saw on the webpage that I linked to, up under 'requistos', that the whole family must have healthcare equal to Spanish state healthcare, and there also must be sufficient funds to support the family. They don't specify what that is, however, and they don't say how that is to be demonstated. So I guess the extranjería are in their right to demand bank statements and medical insurance, and make a judgement about if what they're given is good enough.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

ceebee13 said:


> Can I clarify with anyone who knows if co-pays or deductibles are an issue with this insurance I have to pay?


This is a question you should ask at your particular extranjería office.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

I am going to... more ridiculous red tape given that once he is accepted he'll be on my beneficiary list at the social security. Thanks everyone...


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Asks has already been stated, I don't think there is anything preventing your husband getting his NIE now, then you will have no problem getting bank accounts, insurance, etc.


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Just heard on a Spanish property programme that if you spend half a million euros on property then the Spanish government guarantee your residencia regardless of your country of origin even from outside the EU. ????????????

Recorded September 2014.

regards
Ian


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

That is old news. 

Spanish Golden Visa Program | Immigration Lawyers Spain


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

IanB said:


> Just heard on a Spanish property programme that if you spend half a million euros on property then the Spanish government guarantee your residencia regardless of your country of origin even from outside the EU. ????????????
> 
> Recorded September 2014.
> 
> ...


it isn't permanent residency though - & if you buy property it has to be mortgage free & you don't get permission to work

you could invest the half a million & create a business & employ others - then you could work in that business

again, the residency granted isn't permanent


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## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks Xabia. Its not something I had picked up before not having half a million to spend. LOL!

The presenter had introduced a couple to a small town which apparently has a wide variety of nationalities due to this "rule". Hence the question on this thread as much has been said on the forums about difficulties with the formalities even for EU citizens.

I know Australia operates a system of sorts based on this and my own son had to get his ex mother in law to deposit a bond in cash in an officially recognised way to allow her to have "residence" out there.

regards
Ian


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## mere1331 (Feb 23, 2015)

larryzx said:


> I am almost certain one can obtain an NIE in the circumstances you describe.
> 
> One for sure does not need to be resident in Spain to obtain an NIE. Everyone who buys a property must get one and (allowing for the exception which seems to apply to Sabadell) to operate a bank account even as a non-resident
> 
> ...


It sounds like you were successful obtaining your spouse's paperwork. When you applied did you have a lot of money in your Spanish account? My husband works at a private school in Spain and makes a good salary which we spend every month on rent etc. I make a fair amount of money as well working remotely for a foreign company but I keep it in foreign accounts. We could always borrow some from my family to have deposited in his account sooner rather than later if you think it's necessary and they'll need it to have been there for 3 months. I was hoping though that he could simply go through his school to the public office to update his status as now married and that because they know the school and they already know him it will be easier for me to submit my papers. We have a marriage certificate issued in Gibraltar in October 2014. Should I order a more recent one or just have it translated? Do you recommend going to the agency ourselves and simply enquiring about what to do or waiting for the school to ask on our behalf?


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mere1331 said:


> When you applied did you have a lot of money in your Spanish account? ?


I am fairly certain we just showed my Spanish bank account details, where my OAP, which included my wife as my dependant, was credited by DWP.


I understand from y general knowledge, that as long as one shows the equivalent to a Spain pension, that is sufficient; i.e. if a Spaniard can live on it then so can we.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

IanB said:


> Just heard on a Spanish property programme that if you spend half a million euros on property then the Spanish government guarantee your residencia regardless of your country of origin even from outside the EU. ????????????
> 
> Recorded September 2014.
> 
> ...


As @PAZCAT states, this is old news and has been mentioned on the forum (frequently).

Do note though that this type of 'residencia' only lasts 12 months!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Still it's easy enough info to miss.
Didn't someone once post the numbers of people who had taken it up, it was quite low if I recall.


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

UPDATE: I spoke to the lawyer, who didn't understand the reasons we were rejected. I fired her. I have now bought a sin copagos Sanitas health insurance, and I have obtained the copies of all letters sent from the office to the lawyer. It seems from the first application they were unconvinced of the insurance, and yet they rejected us based on "no quedando acreditado que acompane o se reuna con su conyuge." which is odd and vague. There is nothing about money. We don't really understand what this phrase relates to. But it seems like there is really nothing spelled out for us until the third rejection, which then says about the insurance not being equivalent. All reasons are given the ley number articulo 7.1 de la ley 16/2003 de 28 Mayo (National Health directive). So there we are, I guess. I shall get a new bank certificate just in case, and a newly-stamped empadron. I shall wait for the Sanitas card to come through, and then take an appointment to see them at the office. So, any tips for how to appeal? Do I just turn up and take it from there in the appointment? Seems like it from the website... Let me know if any other snippets or tips come to mind! I feel like I totally did the right thing by firing the lawyer!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

ceebee13 said:


> UPDATE: I spoke to the lawyer, who didn't understand the reasons we were rejected. I fired her. I have now bought a sin copagos Sanitas health insurance, and I have obtained the copies of all letters sent from the office to the lawyer. It seems from the first application they were unconvinced of the insurance, and yet they rejected us based on "no quedando acreditado que acompane o se reuna con su conyuge." which is odd and vague. There is nothing about money. We don't really understand what this phrase relates to. But it seems like there is really nothing spelled out for us until the third rejection, which then says about the insurance not being equivalent. All reasons are given the ley number articulo 7.1 de la ley 16/2003 de 28 Mayo (National Health directive). So there we are, I guess. I shall get a new bank certificate just in case, and a newly-stamped empadron. I shall wait for the Sanitas card to come through, and then take an appointment to see them at the office. So, any tips for how to appeal? Do I just turn up and take it from there in the appointment? Seems like it from the website... Let me know if any other snippets or tips come to mind! I feel like I totally did the right thing by firing the lawyer!



While you area waiting for the insurance, go along to the office and ask for a list, in writing, stating explicitly what they want.

Good luck!


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

Yes, I will request that. Thanks!


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

ceebee13 said:


> UPDATE: I spoke to the lawyer, who didn't understand the reasons we were rejected. I fired her. I have now bought a sin copagos Sanitas health insurance... I shall get a new bank certificate just in case, and a newly-stamped empadron. I shall wait for the Sanitas card to come through, and then take an appointment to see them at the office. So, any tips for how to appeal? Do I just turn up and take it from there in the appointment? Seems like it from the website... Let me know if any other snippets or tips come to mind! I feel like I totally did the right thing by firing the lawyer!


Sorry that you have had trouble with the residencia process. If it is any consolation, my husband, who holds an Irish passport, was rejected for the same reason - our insurance with Sanitas had a copay. See my previous post which has a copy from Barcelona stating that the health insurance must be "sin copagos". Apparently, this "sin copagos" thing has been catching on. Prior to being rejected, we had not heard of this being an issue, even on this forum which has a wealth of knowledge. We also fired the firm (don't think she was a lawyer) and went through the appeal process. I finally got my residency card 2 weeks ago and my son just this morning (they did not let either of his parents pick up the card for him even when the first Police Station said it should be fine and wrote down my husband's NIE on the paper that they processed!)

Anyway, I hope a few things we went through may be helpful to you:

1. Appointment
Not sure how long it takes to get an appointment where you are but it may be wise to go ahead to make an appointment now allowing a couple weeks to receive the new insurance card from Sanitas. It took us some time to get an appointment for my husband and it delayed my process as a non-EU person (American). It took 2 weeks for us to get the new card from Sanitas.

2. Appeal
The firm I first hired filed an appeal for me so I don't know the process. I do have a letter that she wrote. I can send you a copy if you PM me.

If I remember correctly, we needed to file an appeal within 30 days of the rejection. Check if that same rule applies in your area because you may miss this window. A couple of lawyers we consulted with favored the re-applying process as the appeal takes much longer. But then you run into the issue of the marriage certificate older than 3 months. There really is no win at all. We hired a lawyer who knew what she was doing and she contacted the Government Office regarding our appeal status (2 months in passing with no word) and we got the answer within a week. 

3. Potential issues now that you fired your lawyer
I hope you got every single piece of paper back from your lawyer. Look at the application to see which address s/he used for contact. In my case, our firm used their address (we did not know at the time) so all the letters were sent to their office including the approval letters after the appeal process. We had to go to their office to retrieve the letters (we did not fire them at that point yet for fear of them jeopardizing our paperwork). Once we had all of our paper work back, we fired them and paid them partially. It is another story about this but just thought to add context.

Good luck!


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## ceebee13 (May 1, 2014)

I have PM'ed you about the letter! About the other comments, yes, I think this is all good advice. The documents I got today before I fired her - haha. Luckily I hired her through my gestora so I have a go-between. Thanks!


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