# Immigrants to get free healthcare in Valencia



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

30.000 inmigrantes empadronados en la Comunidad Valenciana recuperan la tarjeta sanitaria | Comunidad Valenciana | EL MUNDO

Would this be available to EU citizens, and if so would it mean that they could move to the Valencia region, sign on the padron for 3 months and then not need private health insurance or pay into the convenio especial after a year?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> 30.000 inmigrantes empadronados en la Comunidad Valenciana recuperan la tarjeta sanitaria | Comunidad Valenciana | EL MUNDO
> 
> Would this be available to EU citizens, and if so would it mean that they could move to the Valencia region, sign on the padron for 3 months and then not need private health insurance or pay into the convenio especial after a year?


it would have to, wouldn't it? 

this is similar to what they did here some years ago - 'move to Valencia & get free healthcare'!! 

and move to Valencia they did

eventually the free healthcare was withdrawn a few years ago 

although it isn't clear if it only applies to those _already_ on the padrón


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

It wasn't that long ago, maybe a couple of years, that pharmacists in the Valencia region were not being paid, they had to strike to get regular payments in for medications prescribed.
I suppose it depends entirely on which political party is in charge in Valencia region, as to how long any free health care will last, or be economically viable, I would be sceptical about the whole thing!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> 30.000 inmigrantes empadronados en la Comunidad Valenciana recuperan la tarjeta sanitaria | Comunidad Valenciana | EL MUNDO
> 
> Would this be available to EU citizens, and if so would it mean that they could move to the Valencia region, sign on the padron for 3 months and then not need private health insurance or pay into the convenio especial after a year?


No, "inmigrantes" doesn't include EU citizens. This is about the undocumented immigrants (sin papeles) who lost the right to healthcare a couple of years ago. The new regime in Valencia is reinstating it.

Asistencia sanitaria: Valencia devuelve la sanidad universal a los inmigrantes ‘sin papeles’ | Comunidad Valenciana | EL PAÍS


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I know the Spanish don't, generally, class us Brits as immigrants so I wonder what their definition of immigrants really is?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> No, "inmigrantes" doesn't include EU citizens. This is about the undocumented immigrants (sin papeles) who lost the right to healthcare a couple of years ago. The new regime in Valencia is reinstating it.
> 
> Asistencia sanitaria: Valencia devuelve la sanidad universal a los inmigrantes ‘sin papeles’ | Comunidad Valenciana | EL PAÍS


many many Europeans lost their right to healthcare when Valencia withdrew the free healthcare & they had to start paying for it under a scheme like the current 'convenio especial', and there are lots of Europeans who live here 'sin papeles' because they can't afford to register - mainly they can't afford the private healthcare

so I'd say that it does include EU citizens


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> many many Europeans lost their right to healthcare when Valencia withdrew the free healthcare & they had to start paying for it under a scheme like the current 'convenio especial', and there are lots of Europeans who live here 'sin papeles' because they can't afford to register - mainly they can't afford the private healthcare
> 
> so I'd say that it does include EU citizens


From my reading of the article, I thought that it would work the same way as it did for people who were resident before 2012, that they would just have to get the "legislation letter" from their home country confirming that they were not entitled to healthcare there any longer, and they could then register for state healthcare here (well, in Valencia at least).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> From my reading of the article, I thought that it would work the same way as it did for people who were resident before 2012, that they would just have to get the "legislation letter" from their home country confirming that they were not entitled to healthcare there any longer, and they could then register for state healthcare here (well, in Valencia at least).


me too - & that's exactly how it used to work in Valencia when it was free healthcare for all residents

if you were from the UK, you needed to be on the padrón, & have what was then known as the 'Newcastle letter' , which we now call the 'legislation letter' 

this simply sounds as if they are reinstating the same scheme, to me

this to me, is the important bit in Alcalaina's link



> "Aquí estamos devolviendo *la universalidad*. Para nosotros no se puede fragmentar un derecho".



universal - that means everyone, surely?


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## Kerry UK (May 7, 2013)

There's a mention of this on the front page of today's free paper "The Post". It says there will be a full article in Friday's " Costa Blanca News".

I don't have any form of health care here yet, I retired early and don't qualify for a SIP card. Can anyone tell me how I go about getting the Newcastle letter?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Kerry UK said:


> There's a mention of this on the front page of today's free paper "The Post". It says there will be a full article in Friday's " Costa Blanca News".
> 
> I don't have any form of health care here yet, I retired early and don't qualify for a SIP card. Can anyone tell me how I go about getting the Newcastle letter?


I think you just need to ring the DWP (in Newcastle, hence the Newcastle letter).


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## Kerry UK (May 7, 2013)

Thanks! I will.

Kerry


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

What would the chances of other areas taking this up?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Kerry UK said:


> Thanks! I will.
> 
> Kerry


ask for the 'legislation letter' - that's what it's known as now


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> What would the chances of other areas taking this up?


Personally, I would say very slim. I can't really understand why Valencia has done it (as fergie said earlier) as the state health services in Spain have been badly hit by austerity cuts. They may have intended it to benefit those already here "sin papeles", but of course it will draw others to go there too.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> I know the Spanish don't, generally, class us Brits as immigrants so I wonder what their definition of immigrants really is?


My Spanish friends tell me that Brits in Spain are know as "Guiris." They assure me that it is not meant to be insulting!


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Kerry UK said:


> There's a mention of this on the front page of today's free paper "The Post". It says there will be a full article in Friday's " Costa Blanca News".
> 
> I don't have any form of health care here yet, I retired early and don't qualify for a SIP card. Can anyone tell me how I go about getting the Newcastle letter?


If you are an EU citizen and retired here before April 2012 (and were fully legal before that date) you are entitled to free State health care now. We moved here in 2008 and took advantage of the free healthcare in Valencia until it was withdrawn the following year but then got our SIP cards back when the national law was changed in 2012. We are still both under 65.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Personally, I would say very slim. I can't really understand why Valencia has done it (as fergie said earlier) as the state health services in Spain have been badly hit by austerity cuts. They may have intended it to benefit those already here "sin papeles", but of course it will draw others to go there too.


When we were first researching our move to Spain in 2006-7, the Valencia government was promoting free healthcare to encourage Brits to choose to retire to this area. The president of Murcia region made a public statement at that time to say that they were looking into the possibility of also offering free healthcare because they wanted Brits to move there. But then The Crisis arrived ... and the rest is history!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I know the Spanish don't, generally, class us Brits as immigrants so I wonder what their definition of immigrants really is?


I think the word is used differently than in the UK. Normally in official documents, newspaper articles etc _inmigrantes_ are defined as people from outside the EU. Sometimes in the media it's a short version of _inmigrantes no documentados_ (what the UK would call illegal immigrants) or, more informally, _sin papeles_.

EU citizens are _Ciudadanos de la Union Europea_ and of course have have different rights. I've never heard or seen EU citizens resident in Spain referred to as _inmigrantes_, officially or otherwise.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The Skipper said:


> My Spanish friends tell me that Brits in Spain are know as "Guiris." They assure me that it is not meant to be insulting!


That can be applied to any pale-skinned northern European, not just Brits. Whether it's meant as an insult does depend on the context . I guess it's like us calling Americans "Yanks" or the French "frogs". I often call myself a _guiri_, and have been assured that I'm not one, but nobody can define the exact qualifications for guirihood.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> many many Europeans lost their right to healthcare when Valencia withdrew the free healthcare & they had to start paying for it under a scheme like the current 'convenio especial', and there are lots of Europeans who live here 'sin papeles' because they can't afford to register - mainly they can't afford the private healthcare
> 
> so I'd say that it does include EU citizens


Don't they have free care for those _sin recursos_, who can't afford insurance, like in Andalucia?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Don't they have free care for those _sin recursos_, who can't afford insurance, like in Andalucia?


Yes they do.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I've tracked down the actual press release (well a friend in Oliva did  ) 

Notas de prensa - Conselleria de Sanitat

it doesn't differentiate between EU & non-EU, it simply says that the requirement is the you don't have healthcare provision here, nor in the country from whence you came, & that you've been on the padrón for three months

that's it's for any foreigner in an 'irregular situation' - & I know plenty of EU people like that - not registered as resident because they can't afford healthcare 



> *'El derecho a la atención sanitaria para todas las personas es innegociable'*


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I've tracked down the actual press release (well a friend in Oliva did  )
> 
> Notas de prensa - Conselleria de Sanitat
> 
> ...


OK, we'll have to wait and see! But if they aren't registered as resident they will still be using their EHICs, presumably, and the UK will be billed for the treatment.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Personally, I would say very slim. I can't really understand why Valencia has done it (as fergie said earlier) as the state health services in Spain have been badly hit by austerity cuts. They may have intended it to benefit those already here "sin papeles", but of course it will draw others to go there too.


I don't understand it either. I know the economy is picking up but it takes a long time to recover from almost needing a bailout, which is what happened to Valencia.


Valencia, a cruel reflection of Spain's economic woes | Reuters


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> OK, we'll have to wait and see! But if they aren't registered as resident they will still be using their EHICs, presumably, and the UK will be billed for the treatment.


or not going to the doctor - or paying as they go at a private clinic - I know a lot who do that, though they can't afford monthly payments (though I reckon it could work out cheaper sometimes but that's their feeling on the matter)

they're pretty smart around here as far as the EHIC is concerned - if the computer throws up that you've been using it a lot they refuse it


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I've tracked down the actual press release (well a friend in Oliva did  )
> 
> Notas de prensa - Conselleria de Sanitat
> 
> ...



It does seem to drive a coach and horses through the residency requirements, though, which require people to prove they will not become a burden on the state. Presumably now people will be able to move there, not register as residents but sign on the padrón, and after 3 months they will be able to access free healthcare as long as they have the legislation letter. Seems crazy to me, and it will apply not only to those who genuinely can't afford health insurance but also to those who could but would just prefer not to have to pay for it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> It does seem to drive a coach and horses through the residency requirements, though, which require people to prove they will not become a burden on the state. Presumably now people will be able to move there, not register as residents but sign on the padrón, and after 3 months they will be able to access free healthcare as long as they have the legislation letter. Seems crazy to me, and it will apply not only to those who genuinely can't afford health insurance but also to those who could but would just prefer not to have to pay for it.


It seems that it's only for those already here & already on the padrón for 3 months as a minimum

The press release says that there are 30,000 people in this position, so presumably they've done their sums :fingerscrossed:


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> It seems that it's only for those already here & already on the padrón for 3 months as a minimum
> 
> The press release says that there are 30,000 people in this position, so presumably they've done their sums :fingerscrossed:


Well, that's somethiing I suppose, but I can't see it doing anything to improve standards or waiting times.

It always amuses me when people (or Governments) put figures on the number of illegal immigrants or unregistered residents, if they aren't registered, how can they possibly know how many there are?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Well, that's somethiing I suppose, but I can't see it doing anything to improve standards or waiting times.
> 
> It always amuses me when people (or Governments) put figures on the number of illegal immigrants or unregistered residents, if they aren't registered, how can they possibly know how many there are?


I would guess that they've compared padrón records with the records of resident registrations

which is unlikely to be accurate - but if the requirement is the 3 months on the padrón, I guess that's a good start


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

If I were in charge of healthcare policy in Spain (which of course I'm not and never wil be) I would just make the convenio especial available to everyone who moves here, from day one. The cost is almost identical to private health insurance, but from the country's point of view at least the money would be going into the state system where it's badly needed, and from the new residents' point of view, pre-existing conditions would be covered.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Are more conditions covered by paying into the state system? As has been said the price is almost identical (for many ) to various private schemes- just trying to gauge what advantage would be at end of first years private healthcare switching to Convenio Especial


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Are more conditions covered by paying into the state system? As has been said the price is almost identical (for many ) to various private schemes- just trying to gauge what advantage would be at end of first years private healthcare switching to Convenio Especial


EVERYTHING is covered with the _convenio especial _- they don't even ask 

you have full & total access to free healthcare - although you have to pay full price for medications


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Just remember though that the price (about 60€/month) for "convenio especial" is per person. 

With private insurance, you can get some good family deals.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Just remember though that the price (about 60€/month) for "convenio especial" is per person.
> 
> With private insurance, you can get some good family deals.


Ours is €115 per month for the two of us, I bet next year it will be €120. Family deals may be cheaper for people with children, but for most early retirees, whether couples or singles, they may not be.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

*It works!!*

and it includes EU citizens

the mother of a friend of mine - English - has just been to their local centro de salud, armed with passport, NIE number, padrón & 'legislation letter' (no idea how she happened to have one to hand) 

The receptionist knew all about it & the SIP card is on its way


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Just remember folks, you have the new Valencia government to thank for this - a leftist coalition of PSOE, Podemos and Compromís. Putting people first.

MUNICIPAL AND REGIONAL ELECTIONS IN SPAIN: Leftist governments take shape in cities and regions across Spain | In English | EL PAÃ�S


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