# Need a little translation of Italian real estate terms, please



## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

I have been amusing myself (ie. a combination of dreamng and legitimate research) by looking a properties for sale in various parts of Puglia, Abruzzo and Sicily. Despite my lack of Italian and the atrocious google translations, I think I've got most of the terms figured out, but I may be making some horrendous assumptions. Would someone care to confirm my idea about what these things mean?

Individual heating: This is as opposed to central heating, meaning that each room has it's own separately controlled heating unit...fireplace, radiator, or whatever?

Ceiling star? In one context I was pretty sure it meant overhead (ie. ceiling) light fixture. But then I see references sometimes to "original stucture, vaulted ceiling and star" and am not quite sure what it refers to.

A kitchen which is a kitchenette. Hmmm, I'm thinking when it says it has a kitchen which is a kitchenette, it might mean all kitchen equipment is along a single wall within the confines of an open dining/living room? 
And if so....why do so many flats and houses have such kitchenettes? I always thought of Italians as great cooks, but maybe they can just manage it in a much more confined area than I can. I fear I'd be laying out lasagna noodles on the living room sofa.

Mosquito nets...window screens? I'm gathering that mosquitoes can be a bit of a problem in Puglia.

Several of you kindly weighed in and warned me not to even think about buying a ruin and restoring it. What about a unit that has been partially restored and all plans for remaining renovations "have been approved"? Would this minimize the bureaucratic hassles?

And finally...when one buys a flat in a larger building, what is the Italian legal ownership structure for the common areas of the building? I see no references to "condominiums" as we have in the states, so what is a flat owners liability/responsibilty for common areas? And if there is none, how can one be assured that the owner will , for example, maintain the roof properly?

Thanks for helping me through this maze...


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

It would be best if you posted the Italian terms. I think from what you've posted you've missed a few at least.

Condos have existed in Italy for literally thousands of years. .


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Melissa58275 said:


> What about a unit that has been partially restored and all plans for remaining renovations "have been approved"?


What's the definition of "partially"? Which remaining renovations have been approved? Are they the renovations you want? Do you know what they're going to cost?



> Would this minimize the bureaucratic hassles?


Maybe, maybe not.

I would apply some common sense here.


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

NickZ said:


> It would be best if you posted the Italian terms. I think from what you've posted you've missed a few at least.
> 
> Condos have existed in Italy for literally thousands of years. .


Sorry, my latte put at lightheartedness seems to have fallen flat. I am sure there are a million terms I will seriously need to I understand and get professional help with before I consider putting money on the line. I am nowhere near that stage yet. Right now, I'm just looking at real estate ads to help me focus a decision on where to start my travel explorations. I find them helpful in giving me an idea of both what the housing is like in an area and how affordable it is. 

So the terms I'm referring to are those which come up in the google translations of property descriptions. As for condo...I'm glad to hear that it is a similar legal construct in Italy. Interesting that the English word condo or condominium has not yet appeared in any translation I've seen. What is the Italian word for it? I'll hunt for it in the original language descriptions.


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

Oops...autocorrect strikes again. My "latte put" was meant to be my " attempt" !


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

OK, but it's hard to interpret a term nobody now understands after Google Translate got ahold of it. So why not post a few of the words you're seeing and don't understand, _in the original Italian_, and then people can try to help explain what they mean in English.

At the moment you've posted a set of questions that basically amounts to, "I don't understand this Google Translate output. Does anyone else understand it?" Our answer: no. You're reading the same garbled, mistranslated text that we are, and you're doing just as well as we are in understanding it: not well at all.


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> What's the definition of "partially"? Which remaining renovations have been approved? Are they the renovations you want? Do you know what they're going to cost?
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.
> ...


Well, of course! I just wanted to know if the "plan approval" process is a large part of the hassle and, assuming the plans meet my needs and approval, if purchasing something which had already received whatever bureaucratic ok needed to make the proposed changes significantly reduced the nightmare quotient. Obviously there could still be huge potential for problems getting the work done and whatever final habitation approval is needed.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Melissa58275 said:


> I just wanted to know if the "plan approval" process is a large part of the hassle...


Let me put it more simply and directly for you. Does that set of words give you any meaningful, useful information whatsoever to assess that property? In any language?

That would be no. It's utterly meaningless from your point of view. It's like putting the word "cozy" in a property listing. What does that mean? Practically _anything_ can be described as "cozy."

....Well, OK, that language does give you one piece of negative information: the property is not in a condition that anybody else considers ready. It's purely a negative, in no way a positive. It's trying to put the best face and best marketing spin on a dog, most likely. You have no idea if, for example, somebody repainted a room 3 years ago ("partially renovated") and submitted plans 6 years ago to knock down the rest of the property that's uninhabitable.

As I said, some common sense is in order here.


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> Let me put it more simply and directly for you. Does that set of words give you any meaningful, useful information whatsoever to assess that property? In any language?
> 
> That would be no. It's utterly meaningless from your point of view. It's like putting the word "cozy" in a property listing. What does that mean? Practically _anything_ can be described as "cozy."
> 
> ...


Well actually it conveys a piece of positive info as far as I am concerned. I like the idea of renovating a piece of property to suit me rather than buying someone else's taste. Thus, I was disappointed to learn from others on this forum that buying a "ruin" and renovating typically involved a nightmare of bureaucratic red tape as well as the usual hassles of finding workmen and getting them to complete the job, along with the risks of previously undiscovered deficiencies to be corrected. 

Listings which hinted ( and I deliberately say hinted because I am relying oh google translations as well as decoding sales speak ) that at least one of the significant obstacles may have been hurdled, are therefore attractive to me. What I was hoping is that someone familiar with the Italian process for building approval could tell me is if the approval is from such and such an office it means that permission has been granted to proceed with renovations that meet the specs outlined in the plans and, furthermore, whether that portion of the process is typically a minor obstacle or a


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## Melissa58275 (Apr 14, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> OK, but it's hard to interpret a term nobody now understands after Google Translate got ahold of it. So why not post a few of the words you're seeing and don't understand, _in the original Italian_, and then people can try to help explain what they mean in English.
> 
> At the moment you've posted a set of questions that basically amounts to, "I don't understand this Google Translate output. Does anyone else understand it?" Our answer: no. You're reading the same garbled, mistranslated text that we are, and you're doing just as well as we are in understanding it: not well at all.


Ok. Understood. I thought it possible that some of the translations did mean something that others living there would know. But if that's not the case I'll just struggle along the best I can with google translate until such time as I am seriously looking to buy. Then I'll get serious help.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Melissa58275 said:


> Ok. Understood. I thought it possible that some of the translations did mean something that others living there would know. But if that's not the case I'll just struggle along the best I can with google translate until such time as I am seriously looking to buy. Then I'll get serious help.


I think he meant that you should provide the original terms, not the Google translations.

Many here will more easily understand the original terms.

Regarding kitchens, the general practice in Italy is for homes to be sold / apartments (unfurnished) to be rented stripped to the bare walls and ceilings. No light fixtures, nothing in the "kitchen" other than bare walls with a few electrical outlets and pipes sticking out. People buy and install their own "kitchen" - range, refrigerator, cabinets, sink, and so on and then take them with them when they move on. An apartment (especially a furnished apartment - "con mobili") which includes kitchen or kitchenette probably has these items already installed.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes, the only thing you know is that a property advertised that way needs renovation. You have no idea whether it's 1% or 99% finished -- though take a guess which is more likely. You have no idea whether the planning approval is at all relevant to what you want to do (most probably not -- and if it needs planning approval at all, it's pretty major).

Now, if they say something like, "Only requires a minor repair to one outside wall," then maybe you've got some more information to go on. Maybe. (If it's "minor," why didn't the seller take care of the issue?)

"Ruins" can be truthfully advertised using the language you found (never mind untruthful ads). If the property has two sticks and one shingle, and somebody adds a second shingle, that's "partially renovated."

Caveat emptor. That's Latin, a language not altogether unknown in Italy.


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## cpa21 (Jun 14, 2014)

When looking at Italian real estate a few simple observations:

You can tell a property is overpriced if it is advertised in English.

Every project takes more time and money than planned.

My own experience:

I bought a turnkey apartment from an Italian seller. Everything was in Italian and my subsequent investments in the property have been relatively small. 

I see that you are from the US. Unless you are incredibly rich buying real estate in the US usually involves making some compromises. You should understand that the same rule applies in Italy. Unless you are prepared to pay and over pay accept the fact that a dream house will only exist in your dreams.


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## sofiabatta (Sep 4, 2014)

Hi Melissa,
I am originally from Abruzzo, Italy, although I am used to travel and live abroad. Anyway, I am back to Abruzzo for a short term and if you want, I can give you a help in finding something here. My father is an architec and my brother is an engineer, so they often manage properties of people who want to sell or rent a property and they can give you all the legal and technical advices.
Let me know.


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## travelinggaby (Aug 25, 2014)

Yes, listing them in italian would help. And about the kitchens, yes they are extremely small comoared to US standards, still amazing things come out of them. Pots and pans are cheap, still they produce wonders.... Complete different persoective

Travelinggaby
Gabyaroundtheworld.blogspot.com


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