# Tax residency



## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

Hello all,

We assumed that we will complete our tax return for 2017 in France because we wont have been in Portugal for more than 183 days. 
However, does anyone know if having changed our NIF over to Portuguese resident status impacts on this?


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Once you've declared yourself resident it will be difficult to argue that you're not.

In addition to whatever returns you may have to make elsewhere, I believe you will have to make two returns to Portugal for this year. One as a non-resident covering the period until you became resident and one as a resident covering the remainder of the year.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

RichardHenshall said:


> Once you've declared yourself resident it will be difficult to argue that you're not.
> 
> In addition to whatever returns you may have to make elsewhere, I believe you will have to make two returns to Portugal for this year. One as a non-resident covering the period until you became resident and one as a resident covering the remainder of the year.


Aaah.Thats interesting. I would have thought that changing your residency status with Financias is necessary for the immigration process but that the 183 day rule still determined tax residency status. Our accountant in France seems to think we need to lodge our declaration there as tax residents. Can you be tax resident in two countries...😕


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## david_c (Nov 15, 2017)

rubytwo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> We assumed that we will complete our tax return for 2017 in France because we wont have been in Portugal for more than 183 days.
> However, does anyone know if having changed our NIF over to Portuguese resident status impacts on this?


Hello,
I should mention that rarely do the portuguese tax authorities make effective use of the 183 days rule. As long as you buy or lease a home in PT that make it possible to assume your permanent and usual residence, you'll be considered a tax resident (with the necessary submission of the tax return). 
Nonetheless, I have a friend of mine who is a lawyer specialized in Tax Law. I think he would be kindly open to help you. If you want his contact please message me.
Regards,
David R. Custodio.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

david_c said:


> Hello,
> I should mention that rarely do the portuguese tax authorities make effective use of the 183 days rule. As long as you buy or lease a home in PT that make it possible to assume your permanent and usual residence, you'll be considered a tax resident (with the necessary submission of the tax return).
> Nonetheless, I have a friend of mine who is a lawyer specialized in Tax Law. I think he would be kindly open to help you. If you want his contact please message me.
> Regards,
> David R. Custodio.


I tried to send a PM but there was a pop up informing that this wasn't possible?


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## david_c (Nov 15, 2017)

rubytwo said:


> I tried to send a PM but there was a pop up informing that this wasn't possible?


Hi there,
It's probably because I am a recent member of the forum.
How may I otherwise contact you (since I also cannot post an email address)?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
David C.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

david_c said:


> Hi there,
> It's probably because I am a recent member of the forum.
> How may I otherwise contact you (since I also cannot post an email address)?
> Thanks in advance.
> ...


Can you send a PM?


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## david_c (Nov 15, 2017)

rubytwo said:


> Can you send a PM?


No...


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## david_c (Nov 15, 2017)

rubytwo said:


> Can you send a PM?


Hello rubytwo,
Would you please try to send me a PM now? I think it might work now.
If not, do email me at [email protected] and I will try to help you with your concerns. 
Thanks so much,
David C.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

david_c said:


> Hello rubytwo,
> Would you please try to send me a PM now? I think it might work now.
> If not, do email me at [email protected] and I will try to help you with your concerns.
> Thanks so much,
> David C.


Thank you. However on further investigation it seems pretty clear that Financias will consider me a tax resident here and require a return. I'm not sure what I do with France given that our accountant there is expecting a return as a resident in France. 
I guess that will teach us for moving from one EU country that loves bureaucracy to another that seems to love it more. For a European Union it sometimes seems anything but...


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Would you not do the reverse of the returns for Portugal? The first part of the year as a resident and the remainder as a non-resident?


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

RichardHenshall said:


> Would you not do the reverse of the returns for Portugal? The first part of the year as a resident and the remainder as a non-resident?


Will discuss with the accountant in France. Thanks


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