# Europe before death!



## ptrichmondmike

Hello - I'm a semi-retired 67 y.o. American performing arts administrator who desperately wants to see a bit of Europe before I die -- and Germany seems like a good place to start. It could have been the board for Spain, but Berlin calls to me. My dream is to leave the U.S. permanently if I can.

I am lucky to have a well-paying remote fundraising job (10 hrs/wk) to supplement Social Security, so I have a steady income of about 2300 Euros/month. Is that enough to live on, in most of Western Europe? If not, are there places other than Romania where it might be enough?

Thanks. I love Europe -- history, culture, monarchs, revolution -- everything. Can I afford it, living on the cheap? Best places to consider?


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## James3214

Berlin is not a bad choice, although it will be better when they eventually open their new airport (but that is another story completely - google it for the saga!)
2300€ is more than enough to live on in most places in Western Europe although it will go a lot further in the Romania, but be careful as you will have to pay tax on that if you decide to register and live in Berlin.
If I was you I would travel as a tourist in Europe and sort out your taxes, etc as you currently do in the US.


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## Nononymous

Money is the least of your worries. There is the small matter of visas... 

As a US citizen, you can spend only 90 out of every 180 days in the Schengen countries, as a tourist. That's it. If you wish to stay beyond 90 days in Berlin, you'd need a residence permit from the foreigner's office. This would typically be granted for working in certain fields, or study, but there isn't really a retirement category. With luck you might get a year if you stated a desire to learn German or something of that nature, and proved means of support. (That being said, US citizens are treated favourably and at least you can apply once landed, without obtaining a visa first, which isn't the case elsewhere.) 

Including income from working online in your means of support might be problematic. Remote work is a bit of a grey area, new to most governments. Responses could vary from turning a blind eye to allowing it but requiring that you enter the German tax system (complex) to not allowing it at all. 

And then there's health insurance to consider. Medicare, I'm told, is not valid outside the US. So you would need private insurance of a suitable standard to meet the requirements of a German residence permit, which could be fairly costly at your age. 

Other countries in Europe will have similar restrictions. You can park in the UK for up to six month; you can go back and forth in and out of Schengen on the 90/180 as a tourist, but to simply settle somewhere is not bureaucratically straightforward unless you have some claim to EU citizenship.


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## ptrichmondmike

Thanks to you both. I'm aware of the 90 day visa-free limit outside the UK, which is fine since my plan is to spend up to one year total, basing myself in four or more countries in order to soak up maximum art, culture, scenery, food and people. While it would be nice, for financial reasons I can't imagine retiring to Europe in the long term. Once I'm unable to continue my remote job, I will need to settle for Mexico.

My main concern was whether or not I can make it there on 2300 euros/month, and I'm glad to hear it is feasible. Which of these locations are more expensive?

Berlin
Paris
London
Rome
Madrid
Vienna

And any outstanding, more affordable destinations I might consider? I feel like a novice here -- I've never been to Europe and only know it from books.


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## James3214

If you mean cost of living, then I would say in this order..
London, Paris, Vienna, Rome, Berlin with Madrid being the cheapest.


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## ptrichmondmike

Thanks James -- that helps narrow things down...and happens to coincide with my interests.


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## James3214

One thing you could consider (if it's cost of living is the main criteria) could be living somewhere like the south east coast of Spain. Weather is generally better, cost of living is low and and due to the fact that Europeans choose it as a holiday destination there are plenty of (cheap) flights from all over Europe (but obviously many more in the summer). You might even get some good recommendations over on the Spain forum.


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## xabiaxica

ptrichmondmike said:


> Thanks to you both. I'm aware of the 90 day visa-free limit outside the UK, which is fine since my plan is to spend up to one year total, basing myself in four or more countries in order to soak up maximum art, culture, scenery, food and people. While it would be nice, for financial reasons I can't imagine retiring to Europe in the long term. Once I'm unable to continue my remote job, I will need to settle for Mexico.
> 
> My main concern was whether or not I can make it there on 2300 euros/month, and I'm glad to hear it is feasible. Which of these locations are more expensive?
> 
> Berlin
> Paris
> London
> Rome
> Madrid
> Vienna
> 
> And any outstanding, more affordable destinations I might consider? I feel like a novice here -- I've never been to Europe and only know it from books.


all but one of those (London) is in the Schengen zone, so you'd need to be careful of the 90 in 180 days rule


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## Nononymous

I was confused by your statement - "My dream is to leave the U.S. permanently if I can" - which I thought meant staying in Europe.

Under Schengen rules your plan for a year doesn't quite work. You'd need to be 90 days in Schengen, 90 days in the UK (or Eastern Europe somewhere outside of Schengen) then 90 days back in Schengen, etc. So it's only six months out of twelve for six of the seven cities you listed above, I'm afraid. If you can manage the Schengen shuffle, then no bureaucracy of course, no residence permits required.

Doing all that on 2300 €/month is feasible but not necessarily easy, depending on accommodations. If you find reasonable apartments for short-term rentals, great. (Factor in a fair amount of time, energy and stress simply looking for accommodation.) If not, you'll burn through funds very quickly. Add in transportation, health insurance, getting into museums, the usual grand tour expenditures, and the bills will mount.


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## ptrichmondmike

Thank you for the vital piece of info about the Schengen restriction. I thought it was 90 days per country -- it would have been a most unpleasant surprise to learn that in situ.

So, throw in Ireland, Montenegro, Kaliningrad or Istanbul. Why not?


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## Nononymous

That's the spirit. 

Remember also that some of your income will depend on reliable internet access. Generally not a problem these days, but don't take it for granted when roaming about.


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## ptrichmondmike

I'm sure I have lots of ducks to get into line for this to work out as I hope. 

One question about the Schengen zone 90-day restriction: If I am temporarily living outside the zone for 90 days, is it forbidden to visit for 1-2 days, for example to attend a festival that only happens once a year? Some of my tour planning will include such events, and I'll need to plan carefully for "must-see."

And another: Suppose you live in the Schengen zone for one month, then outside for a month, then back...etc. I plan to use Airbnb, so this is feasible. Does that changes the rules, as long as there is no single 90-day residence?


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## Nononymous

I believe that it's a 90-in-180 rule. So think of it as a rolling 180-day window, during which you cannot have been present more than 90 days. (This may require some math.) In principle you can go month-in-month-out, or come back for a few days, or whatever, as long as you don't exceed 90-in-180. Just be prepared to document your travels with train tickets etc. if you don't have passport stamps.


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## MovingOUTofFrance

ptrichmondmike said:


> Hello - I'm a semi-retired 67 y.o. American performing arts administrator who desperately wants to see a bit of Europe before I die -- and Germany seems like a good place to start. It could have been the board for Spain, but Berlin calls to me. My dream is to leave the U.S. permanently if I can.
> 
> I am lucky to have a well-paying remote fundraising job (10 hrs/wk) to supplement Social Security, so I have a steady income of about 2300 Euros/month. Is that enough to live on, in most of Western Europe? If not, are there places other than Romania where it might be enough?
> 
> Thanks. I love Europe -- history, culture, monarchs, revolution -- everything. Can I afford it, living on the cheap? Best places to consider?



On your income you can get many visas in other Eu countries to move permanently for example spain has something called - non lucrative visa - which allows u to move to spain as long as u can prove u are self sufficient and dont need a job...on 2300 euros u can live very well in Barcelona ...rent and food is very cheap there...u wud need private health insurance though. France has a similar visa too and so does italy...as well as Hungary....Budapest is a really cheap city for 500 euros a month u can get a luxury apartment and again food costs are very cheap...a ticket to the Budapest opera costs only 20 euros. Germany doesnt allow u to spend more than 90 days out of 180 days unless u are working or studying in Germany. You can try the french long stay visa its very easy to get for someone in your situation...spain should be easier though...try living in Barcelona for a year its a clean cultural city with everything and half the cost of paris....u can always travel to berlin easily.


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## Nononymous

The viability of the long-stay visa option would depend on how the countries in question would treat the income from working remotely at a US job - it's an open question whether they would allow this is as a means of support - and whether they would then insist on your then becoming tax compliant. The costs of health insurance might also be quite substantial for someone over 65.


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## Katrine6

Hello Papi, first of all visiting Berlin is a good choice, I can recommend this http://www.city-getaway.com/en/apartments-to-rent-in-Berlin/3 where you can rent an apartment to get used to the Berlin living traditions, secondly, with your income I suggest France or Spain, not choosing a big city, but where you like to stay more, Good Luck for your adventure.


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