# Brit overstayed in Spain



## kowalski (Jun 23, 2014)

Hi,

I am a Brit who was travelling around Spain and Norway for a bit and recently settled in Andalucia. I've been here, in Spain, longer than the 3 months allowed before I need an NIE.

My passport has never been stamped.

I want to stay in Spain now, which was not the plan when I originally came travelling and I never expected to be here this long... hence not registering earlier.

All the threads I've read on this topic refer to people who are coming from America or Australia who run the risk of being banned from Schengen countries, as a Brit is that a danger for me too. I'm really not sure what the risks are of overstay for me.

Because my passport was not stamped, can I just register as normal and give any date for how long I have been in Spain or have they some other way of knowing how long I have been here?

Or should I be honest about how long I have been here when I apply and, if I am, what are the likely repercussions?

All responses appreciated.


Peace,
kowalski


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Just go and apply for residencia, it is unlikely they will question when you arrived, they may well ask when you decided to become a resident, it is up to you what answer you provide. You will of course need proof of income and healthcare.

Once you have done that sign on the Padron


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## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

The Spanish government may fine you 200 euros but they cannot kick you out. Maybe they won't fine you at all. When you apply you residency, they won't ask whether you overstay or not. So you have nothing to worry!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I cannot see you will have a problem. Go and register for your NIE and residencia. The form you fill in doesn't ask when you arrived and neither will they. Nobody gets their passport stamped these days unless you visit somewhere like North Korea....


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## kowalski (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you all for your speedy replies. I'm somewhat calmer now. I had nightmarish visions of being in the immigration office and getting arrested and deported, lol.



Sandraw719 said:


> The Spanish government may fine you 200 euros but they cannot kick you out.


I would submit gladly to a 200 Euro fine, if that is the worst that can happen to me. Have you got a link to a reference that they can't kick Brits out and about maximum fines etc.?


Peace,
kowalski


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Won't happen...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

they won't kick you out - in fact can't for just not registering - they probably won't even fine you

as said - just get everything in order & no-one will bother you & you'll sleep better at night


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kowalski said:


> Thank you all for your speedy replies. I'm somewhat calmer now. I had nightmarish visions of being in the immigration office and getting arrested and deported, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they can't - as an EU citizen they can only deport you if you do something seriously heinous

& forgetting to register as resident isn't heinous


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## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

kowalski said:


> Thank you all for your speedy replies. I'm somewhat calmer now. I had nightmarish visions of being in the immigration office and getting arrested and deported, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can google " eu citizen,rights",then you can find the info.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

to be heinous or not to be heinous that indeed is the question....


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## kowalski (Jun 23, 2014)

Sandraw719 said:


> You can google " eu citizen,rights",then you can find the info.


Cool, thanks. Been googling all the wrong terms.


Peace,
kowalski


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## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

Don't think Spain has enough jails for you.haha. I heard the jails in the big cities are full. The government tried to move them to small cities.

One Chinese man who has Spainish residency but stayed more than 6 months in China. When he came back, the board people won't let him in. He said he has no money to buy another ticket back to China.Then they let him in!His wife did not use the same excuse and she was forced to go back to China! ( they use different windows).

Once non european citizens have spanish residency,they cannot stay outside Spain more than 6 months


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

thrax said:


> to be heinous or not to be heinous that indeed is the question....


As in You're Heinous, Infanta Cristina?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

After three months EU citizens have a_ right_ to apply for residency, at which stage they have to prove they can support themselves. It's not an absolute requirement and nobody will be kicked out for not doing so - unless perhaps they are caught begging in carparks.

Estancia y residencia - Ministerio del Interior


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

thrax said:


> I cannot see you will have a problem. Go and register for your NIE and residencia. The form you fill in doesn't ask when you arrived and neither will they. Nobody gets their passport stamped these days unless you visit somewhere like North Korea....


And Bradford


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You can't even be expelled for committing a crime, heinous or not, as long as you are working, actively looking for work or have enough money to support yourself. Clarification in English:



> After the first three months, but before obtaining permanent residence status, an EU citizen’s right to reside in another Member State is conditional. The EU citizen must either: be a worker or self-employed person; have sufficient resources ‘not to become a burden on the social assistance system’; be a post-secondary student who makes a declaration concerning such sufficient resources; or be a family member of an EU citizen satisfying one of the first three conditions (Article 7).
> 
> EU citizens retain the right of residence as long as they continue to meet these conditions (Article 14(2)). Conversely, they can lose the right to reside if they do not (or no longer) meet these conditions, but the Directive specifies that expulsion ‘shall not be the automatic consequence’ of an EU’s citizen’s recourse to the social assistance system of the host Member State’ (Article 14(3)).
> 
> Furthermore, it is not possible to expel a worker or a self-employed person, or a person seeking work, as long as such a person can ‘provide evidence’ that he or she ‘is continuing to seek employment’ and has ‘a genuine chance of being engaged’ (Article 14(4)). Any EU citizens subject to expulsion have the same procedural rights as those being expelled on grounds of public policy, public security or public health (Article 15(1)).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> You can't even be expelled for committing a crime, heinous or not, as long as you are working, actively looking for work or have enough money to support yourself. Clarification in English:


Can you give a link please?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Can you give a link please?


EU Law Analysis: Can unemployed EU citizens be expelled and banned from re-entry?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> As in You're Heinous, Infanta Cristina?


Oh! Very good...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> they won't kick you out - in fact can't for just not registering - they probably won't even fine you


They're going soft - we haven't had a good public hanging for ages.


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## marge777 (Jun 28, 2014)

Are NIE & residencia 2 different things? Can you just have the NIE without residencia? How does that work?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

marge777 said:


> Are NIE & residencia 2 different things? Can you just have the NIE without residencia? How does that work?


have a look at the first post here 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> After three months EU citizens have a_ right_ to apply for residency, at which stage they have to prove they can support themselves. It's not an absolute requirement and nobody will be kicked out for not doing so - unless perhaps they are caught begging in carparks.
> 
> Estancia y residencia - Ministerio del Interior


Confusion, confusion, confusion
I know this has been gone over on the forum time and time again but...
The link you give above does say that you have the right to apply for residency, and by that we can infer it's not a requirement, but every time I go to sign on and of the self employment register I am required to show my registration/ residency certificate AND my passport; I can't do it without this certificate. It's the only time I do use it though, but without this certificate showing that I'm a resident I personally wouldn't be able to work.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Confusion, confusion, confusion
> I know this has been gone over on the forum time and time again but...
> The link you give above does say that you have the right to apply for residency, and by that we can infer it's not a requirement, but every time I go to sign on and of the self employment register I am required to show my registration/ residency certificate AND my passport; I can't do it without this certificate. It's the only time I do use it though, but without this certificate showing that I'm a resident I personally wouldn't be able to work.


somewhere in the blurb within the actual law, the word obligado or obligatorio is used

that to me means it's an obligation

need to get ready for work now - but I'll try to find it later if I have time


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> somewhere in the blurb within the actual law, the word obligado or obligatorio is used
> 
> that to me means it's an obligation
> 
> need to get ready for work now - but I'll try to find it later if I have time


Well, that's what I thought, but this link clearly states otherwise!
I'd appreciate more info so thanks for that.
Pobrecita having to work today


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, that's what I thought, but this link clearly states otherwise!
> I'd appreciate more info so thanks for that.
> Pobrecita having to work today


only til 1:30 - then lunch with my students

elder daughter might be cooking it - she's going into the restaurant today to learn how to prepare 'authentic' paella valenciana & fideuá - the Spanish lady who cooks them there serves up heaven on a plate 

have to say I'm looking forward to my loooong August/September break


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> only til 1:30 - then lunch with my students
> 
> elder daughter might be cooking it - she's going into the restaurant today to learn how to prepare 'authentic' paella valenciana & fideuá - the Spanish lady who cooks them there serves up heaven on a plate
> 
> have to say I'm looking forward to my loooong August/September break


Ahhh, because you're doing your intensive course?
Good for you. Hope you make a good chunk of money!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ahhh, because you're doing your intensive course?
> Good for you. Hope you make a good chunk of money!


it has been worth it 

& very enjoyable, too

another one at a higher level next week, then a week off - then a beginner one the following week

then a loooong holiday


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

marge777 said:


> Are NIE & residencia 2 different things? Can you just have the NIE without residencia? How does that work?


Whist the information IS in the faq, the simple answer is YES.

Any one can get an NIE if they wish.

The 'residencia' (putting you on the list of foreigners) is just for (foreign) residents in Spain.


The 'residencia' is not obligatory (as far as I am aware) but you need it for so many things that it almost is a must.

Also, someone mentioned that you had to get one after 90 days - actually, I thought it was within 90 days. A subtle difference?


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## zx10r-Al (Apr 8, 2013)

Having just returned from Catalunya, we were told by several people over there that some towns are refusing to let foreigners get residency and/or sign the padron because they are worried they will vote against independence.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

zx10r-Al said:


> Having just returned from Catalunya, we were told by several people over there that some towns are refusing to let foreigners get residency and/or sign the padron because they are worried they will vote against independence.


Foreigners wouldn't be able to vote in a referendum, surely?


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## zx10r-Al (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm not sure how it works to be honest. I know for the Scottish referendum, only people living in Scotland can vote and Scottish people living in England are selling and moving north of the border just to vote. I thought if you were resident somewhere, you were allowed to vote?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Foreigners wouldn't be able to vote in a referendum, surely?


I think there are a lot of rumours flying and nothing's certain yet - not even if there will be a referendum in Catalonia as central government says it's illegal accorsing to the constitution.
I had heard that Artur Mas wanted to include foreigners as voters as for some reason he thinks they are pro independance??
As for the town halls not allowing foreigners to sign on the padron... They would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces as they receive money for every person empadronando. Although there are always some town halls who are reluctant to have foreigners in their midst and can make it difficult for people to sign I doubt whether this is true. Another thing which often happens is that the foreigner perceives the tow hall worker as putting up barriers when they don't have all their documentation in order.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think there are a lot of rumours flying and nothing's certain yet - not even if there will be a referendum in Catalonia as central government says it's illegal accorsing to the constitution.
> I had heard that Artur Mas wanted to include foreigners as voters as for some reason he thinks they are pro independance??
> As for the town halls not allowing foreigners to sign on the padron... They would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces as they receive money for every person empadronando. Although there are always some town halls who are reluctant to have foreigners in their midst and can make it difficult for people to sign I doubt whether this is true.* Another thing which often happens is that the foreigner perceives the tow hall worker as putting up barriers when they don't have all their documentation in order*.



yes, you're so right!


on the other hand we have our deputy mayor going on the English radio here telling non-resident holiday home owners that they should register on the padrón 

that's all well & good, & great for the town coffers - but can cause endless problems down the line for non-residents who do so


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Confusion, confusion, confusion
> I know this has been gone over on the forum time and time again but...
> The link you give above does say that you have the right to apply for residency, and by that we can infer it's not a requirement, but every time I go to sign on and of the self employment register I am required to show my registration/ residency certificate AND my passport; I can't do it without this certificate. It's the only time I do use it though, but without this certificate showing that I'm a resident I personally wouldn't be able to work.


Of course. But if you were on an extended holiday, with your main residence in the UK. you wouldn't be signing on in Spain, would you?


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Scottish referendum*



zx10r-Al said:


> I'm not sure how it works to be honest. I know for the Scottish referendum, only people living in Scotland can vote and Scottish people living in England are selling and moving north of the border just to vote. I thought if you were resident somewhere, you were allowed to vote?


I find it very very hard to believe that a Scot settled in England would up and off. If they have a decent life in England, why on earth would they sell up and move? Codswallop.
Even if I did have a vote outside Scotland, I don't feel that I have the right to vote for a country which I do not expect that I will return to. I may feel a sentimental attachment to it on occasions, but that is it, soon passes and on with life.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Of course. But if you were on an extended holiday, with your main residence in the UK. you wouldn't be signing on in Spain, would you?


What I read in the link didn't differentiate between extended holiday with main residence in the UK or otherwise.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Of course. But if you were on an extended holiday, with your main residence in the UK. you wouldn't be signing on in Spain, would you?


What I read in the link didn't differentiate between extended holiday with main residence in the UK or otherwise. Of course there is a difference but in the part I read it referred to more or less than 3 months in the country. Also notice the reference to 3 months, not 90 days.
I'm beginning to think this section has been rewritten and it is now more vague than before...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> What I read in the link didn't differentiate between extended holiday with main residence in the UK or otherwise. Of course there is a difference but in the part I read it referred to more or less than 3 months in the country. Also notice the reference to 3 months, not 90 days.
> I'm beginning to think this section has been rewritten and it is now more vague than before...


It may well have been, given how difficult it is to administer. But then so much of Spanish legislation is vague ... 

You have to look at the spirit rather than the letter of the law. It's there to deter Eastern Europeans coming to Spain and claiming state benefits. No-one is going to apply the law to a comfortably-off Brit staying four or five months in their holiday home without applying for residency.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> It may well have been, given how difficult it is to administer. But then so much of Spanish legislation is vague ...
> 
> You have to look at the spirit rather than the letter of the law. It's there to deter Eastern Europeans coming to Spain and claiming state benefits. No-one is going to apply the law to a comfortably-off Brit staying four or five months in their holiday home without applying for residency.


of course it is... not that anyone can claim any benefits in any case

& no, they might not bother with a comfortably-off Brit/German/Italian/whatever staying four or five months in their holiday home without registering as resident

but if said comfortably-off Brit/German/Italian/whatever comes to the attention of the authorities for any other reason, there's a chance that the weight of the law will come down on them....especially if fines are involved

for instance, for not rematriculating a car - & then for actually driving said car on foreign plates when resident in Spain

fines & the possibility of the car in question being impounded & even destroyed....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> of course it is... not that anyone can claim any benefits in any case
> 
> & no, they might not bother with a comfortably-off Brit/German/Italian/whatever staying four or five months in their holiday home without registering as resident
> 
> ...


I thought you could stay six months before you had to re-matriculate a car? That's what it says on the British embassy website anyway.



> If you spend longer than six months of the year in Spain with your UK-registered car, Spanish law says you must register your vehicle with the Spanish authorities.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I thought you could stay six months before you had to re-matriculate a car? That's what it says on the British embassy website anyway.


You have up to 90 days to register as resident and you must re-matriculate the car within 90 days of becoming resident so a maximum of 180 days but could be less if you register within a shorter period. I shall have to get on to FCO to correct it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> You have up to 90 days to register as resident and you must re-matriculate the car within 90 days of becoming resident so a maximum of 180 days but could be less if you register within a shorter period. I shall have to get on to FCO to correct it.


it's about to change to 30 days after becoming resident iirc

so that only gives 4 months now to rematriculate

& even if I'm wrong - the police would want proof that you hadn't been here more than 90 days/3 months - regardless of any car issues

I know I have mentioned this before - but here (& I've since heard that it happens in other areas too), the police are actively checking up on who is living here & not on the padrón &/or registered as resident

no-one I know has been fined - though I do know several who have been given a short period of time to 'get their papers in order' - or prove that they don't live here


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> It may well have been, given how difficult it is to administer. But then so much of Spanish legislation is vague ...
> 
> You have to look at the spirit rather than the letter of the law. It's there to deter Eastern Europeans coming to Spain and claiming state benefits. No-one is going to apply the law to a comfortably-off Brit staying four or five months in their holiday home without applying for residency.


I think you're probably right, although agree with xabiachica that if you draw the polices' attention to yourself you may be treading on thin ice.
However, my intention by asking these questions is not to make people apprenhensive. I'm just trying to get the information sorted out


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> You have up to 90 days to register as resident.


That is not so. If one comes to Spain *with the intention of living here, or getting a job *etc, then one must register on the EU Citizens Register immediately.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

larryzx said:


> That is not so. If one comes to Spain *with the intention of living here, or getting a job *etc, then one must register on the EU Citizens Register immediately.


You are incorrect! One _should_ register immediately but there is no must about that, one *must* register within 90 days - please get your facts right before you argue.

The wording of the law is: "One is required to register within 90 days of arrival", however, there are no sanctions specified if you fail to do so, except that some things are more difficult or even impossible if you have not registered.


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## calbion (May 8, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> it's about to change to 30 days after becoming resident iirc
> 
> so that only gives 4 months now to rematriculate
> 
> ...


Hi, regarding proof of being here less than 90 days, what would be required? Call me thick (the wife does anyway) is the Padron the town hall? Thanks.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> You are incorrect! One _should_ register immediately but there is no must about that, one *must* register within 90 days - please get your facts right before you argue.
> 
> The wording of the law is: "One is required to register within 90 days of arrival", however, there are no sanctions specified if you fail to do so, except that some things are more difficult or even impossible if you have not registered.


I do not wish to be argumentative so I just show this:---

https://www.gov.uk/residency-requirements-in-spain:-

_Residency requirements

From 28 March 2007, *Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register* in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations. You will be issued a Residence Certificate stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjeros) and date of registration.

More details can be found on the website for the Spanish Ministry of the Interior (information is in Spanish).
_


In practice in the Documentation Section of the National Police, the 'should register' is interpreted as 'must'.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I do not wish to be argumentative so I just show this:---
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/residency-requirements-in-spain:-
> 
> ...


the word 'obliged' is used in the actual law http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2007/02/28/pdfs/A08558-08566.pdf


> Artículo 7.
> Residencia superior a tres meses de ciudada-
> nos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de
> otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Eco-
> ...


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